# iFi iDSD Micro DSD512 / PCM768 DAC and Headphone Amp.  Impressions, Reviews and Comments.



## MLGrado

Hello all.  
  
 I just took delivery of the iFi iDSD Micro Digital to Analog converter/ Headphone Amp.  
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/
  
  
  
 Over the next day or two I will be posting a complete review. (REVIEW NOW POSTED BELOW)  In the meantime I may be adding impressions as I go.  Early returns are impressive.  This is a serious audio tool.  It has an exhaustive feature set, and manages to sound excellent in the process.  
  
 First impressions say it has the typical iFi house sound, but with notably improved clarity over the iDSD nano.  If you have been following the reviews of the Nano, you are aware of what a little overachiever it is.  Such an overachiever, that the iDSD micro needs to make a serious return on one's extra investment to make it worthwhile.  
  
 I can say that yes, it is worth the extra investment.  The extra clarity and refinement are immediately obvious.  
  
 ....
  
 iDSD nano and iDSD micro side by side
  

  
  
 iDSD Micro on iRack with iUSB Power, Gemini USB Cable


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## MLGrado

*BACKGROUND*
  
  
 It was around February of 2014 when I first read of iFi while skimming the Head-fi forums. I was looking for a DSD capable DAC in the sub $500 range to replace the first generation Audioquest Dragonfly serving my desktop listening needs. There was only a handful of options at the time, and my interest in DSP free DSD playback further limited the choice. Actually, my choice was made for me. The iFi iDSD nano was the only DAC I could find that fulfilled this requirement in my price bracket. The only problem was I knew nothing about iFi, and I was concerned by the incredibly low price. Surely the raw sound quality would be compromised at this price point. Then again, at a mere $189 there was little risk, so with a 'What the heck?' attitude I ordered one. And wow. Wow. Wow again.
  
 I am glad I took the risk of a blind buy. In addition to being impressed with the sound quality, I became equally impressed with the crew at iFi/ AMR. Their customer interaction and support is superb. And they are truly committed to their vision of Hi-Fi, which is unapologetically different than the hi-fi norm. In the end, they are committed to providing the best sound and most useful feature set for the dollar.
  
  
It should come as no surprise, then, that I followed closely the crowd design of the iDSD Micro, and am among the first 512 owners. An 'Octa-Adopter.' 
  
  
*OCTA-WHAT???*
  
  
'Octa' as in 8x DSD, or DSD512. Yes, this DAC will playback DSD rates up to 24.6 Mhz! This is the first example of such support in a consumer level product. It also supports PCM up to 768khz. Although I know of no content currently available at these high rates, upsampling to DSD512 is possible in software, and PCM 768 allows for DSD256 playback via DoP, which means ASIO is not required for playback at that rate. Although I am not as familiar with the state of Mac computer audio, I believe this may be the first time DSD256 is available on the Mac without a need for special driver software.
  
  
*A DIFFERENT KIND OF HI-FI*
  
  
I mentioned earlier that iFi doesn't follow the hi-fi norm. What does that mean? iFi believes in minimal DSP, and believes that one should be listening to as close to the source audio as possible. DSP's such as upsampling, volume control, format conversion, etc. create unavoidable mathematical losses. The more conversions, the greater the losses. The more changes to the source signal, the more likely the changes become audible. This may especially be the case with DSD. DSP such as filtering, sample rate conversion and volume control require conversion of the 1-bit bitstream to a multibit intermediary, and remodulation back to 1 bit. 
  
Therefore, the iDSD Micro uses a chipset that converts DSD to analog natively with no extra digital conversion or DSP. The 1 bit DSD signal is sent to an analog FIR filter for conversion. That's it! Also, the iDSD micro has a 'BitPerfect' filter option for PCM. This eliminates the oversampling reconstruction filter used in PCM conversion. 
  
So in a DAC loaded with features, simplicity characterizes the nature of the actual audio conversion. This matches my personal audio values.
  
  
*THE iFi EXPERIENCE*
  
  
Unboxing an iFi product is a treat! Packaging is reminiscent of that other "i" company.
  
 In the box you will find a plethora (hyperbole, of course) of quality adapters and cables. Which calls attention to the unique 'OTG' USB port on the back of the Micro. It is a unique port engineered for mobile convenience. To use it with a standard desktop USB cable, an adapter is required. Two versions of the adapter are included. The adapter I chose to use is cable-less. The other adapter has a very short cable between terminations. I chose the first adapter presuming higher quality, but the cabled version may be more convenient when space behind the DAC is a concern. The 'hard' adapter combined with my iFi Gemini cable requires several inches of clearance.  It is also an interesting little detail that the 'hard' adapter comes packed in an anti-static bag, like what you would expect to find enclosing delicate computer components.  Also, I think it is important to add that the included USB cables are OTG cables, so if you don't already have an expensive USB cable like the Gemini, I would suggest forgetting about the adapters and going with one of the included cables.
  
 This is all I will have to say about the adapters, mobile uses, battery, etc. I will leave that to others, as I use this iDSD exclusively in a desktop environment, and cannot adequately review mobile functionality.
  
 Build quality and appearance is typical iFi. The iDSD micro is well built but take care with the switches. They feel a little fragile, and as a matter of fact, I had some trouble with a sticky switch.  My over aggressive tugging, attempting to 'un-stick' it, caused the red 'Turbo' switch that controls amp output level to go flying off into the floor!! Fortunately it easily reattached, and works properly now.
  
  
*THE SOUND*
  
  
 Now on to the good stuff! The sound! Crisp detailed highs, smooth upper mids, slightly warm lower mids and upper bass. Clean extension into the lows. Not too much bass; just about right. Does it deviate from neutral? That is something I am not sure I can answer. Tonal balance is the product of an entire system, and all I can tell you is how it sounds in mine, which is a custom built AMD PC running the latest Jriver Media Center software, iDSD micro, iFi iUSB power, iFi Gemini 'split' USB cable, and a modded USB cable eliminating the 5v line pre iUSB Power. The review headphones are Grado RS1i's.
  
 In comparison to the iDSD nano, the sound is the same tonally, but there is a notable increase in detail and dimensionality. On the Nano, audio images are wide, but slightly flat in comparison. The Micro has greater depth of soundstage. Never is the extra detail harsh, though. The micro is always delightfully smooth and listenable.
  
 DSD was the strong suit of the iDSD nano, and is improved in the Micro. I feel the greatest improvement, though, is with PCM material, especially using the BitPerfect filter. The promise of the Burr Brown DSD1793 segment DAC is realized more fully here. PCM sounds both silky smooth AND extremely detailed, like a hybrid of true PCM and Delta Sigma conversion, which is EXACTLY what the segment DAC is.
  
For headphone use, which is how I exclusively use the iDSD, power is abundant and flexible. There are three settings, from Eco mode to 'Turbo' mode, which will tear paint off the walls with my Grados!!! Eco mode is already stronger than the headphone amp in the iDSD Nano, but I have settled on the middle 'Standard' mode for all my listening. 
  
The headroom it provides for the dynamic orchestral recordings that dominate my listening is welcome. This addresses the only other weakness of the iDSD Nano. The iDSD Micro has plenty of power, dynamic swing and driver control to keep up when the music gets loud and complex. 
  
I enjoy the 3D and XBass 'Analog Signal Processing'. The effect of both is subtle but notable. They never get in the way, and depending on soundtrack can really enhance the experience. For instance, the bass drum on orchestra recordings has deep authority with XBass turned on, and 3D mode really does widen the soundstage nicely, and puts the center image more 'out in front.' But I did notice that with 3D mode engaged, images on recordings I know well were placed too far to the edges for my liking, and overall imaging suffered. Instruments gain a greater sense of space, but lose their precise placement 'in space', so I do the majority of my listening with 3D mode disengaged.  XBass seems ESPECIALLY useful at lower to moderate listening levels, filling in the low end nicely.  At higher levels, or with music recorded with little dynamic range, the bass emphasis may be a bit much.  But as most of my listening is to very dynamic music with moderate average levels, I leave XBass engaged most of the time and do enjoy the effect.  Ultimately, results vary from soundtrack to soundtrack, though.
  
  
*IN CONCLUSION*
  
  
There are many more features included in this incredible product that I have not mentioned, but I believe I have covered everything that stands out to me after two days of listening. This is a special product, both in feature set and sound quality. Designed by a renowned audio engineer, with customized software and extreme functionality. Oh, and it sounds in a word, amazing. If you are looking to spend in the $500 to $1000 range, and maybe even more, you owe it to yourself to hear the iDSD micro. 
  
Highly recommended.


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## nbourbaki

Have you tried it with both USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports?


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## MLGrado

nbourbaki said:


> Have you tried it with both USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports?


 
  
 unfortunately I only have USB 2.0 ports.  I do believe iFi modded their code in the latest firmware to address Intel USB 3.0 issues.  But again, I cannot directly confirm one way or another that 3.0 is trouble free.


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## iFi audio

nbourbaki said:


> Have you tried it with both USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports?


 
  
 Yes, full compatibility with any USB3.0 port or USB2.0 port.
  
 The nano iDSD had the USB 3.0 port firmware update (including Quad-Speed DSD256) back in May.
  
 If you are a *NANO iDSD* owner, please go here for the update:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/ifi-xmos-firmware/
  
 Do NOT UPDATE if have the micro iDSD.
  
  
 Thanks.


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## nbourbaki

ifi audio said:


> Yes, full compatibility with any USB3.0 port or USB2.0 port.
> 
> The nano iDSD had the USB 3.0 port firmware update (including Quad-Speed DSD256) back in May.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much!  I was still running the Beta 6.52 firmware and while it allowed me to use the Nano on my Macbook, when I moved it to my PC, I had to use one of my USB 3.0 ports because the beta software didn't work with my USB 2 ports.
  
 I downloaded the new firmware and installed it without problems and now I can switch back and forth between USB 2 and 3.0.  Awesome!


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## BillsonChang007

One thing for sure is, despite the high output power, they can fit in to this medium sized chassis!


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## JeffSmale

A question about using the iDSD Micro with amplifiers and speakers:

Hey folks, got my unit Saturday, unpacked her yesterday but still haven't had time to sit down and put her through her paces. That won't be until tomorrow evening at the earliest.:mad:

Looking for advice on what settings to use when feeding either a 100 Wpc solid state power amp (Audio Research 100.2) or a 45 Wpc integrated tube amp (Conrad Johnson CAV-50). 

Will be listening mostly to PCM and Internet Radio for the time being. (I can't wait to hear the iPurifier's effect on that sometimes very nasty internet noise.)

Thanks in advance for your help!

Jeff


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## john57

When I got my micro I first put put the power from eco to normal.  Second, I put the output switch from direct to preamp mode that that I can use the micro volume control to control my active monitors. Also the preamp mode is currently the only way I can control volume on native DSD files.


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## JeffSmale

Thanks, John.

How are you liking the sound so far?


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## john57

I would say it is even smoother and clearer than the nano. Sill has plenty of detail. Very little dynamic range compression at all.  You can check my posts by clicking on my username. I would recommend to charge the micro at least a full day regardless of the charging light at first time. It seems to setting in better and the battery seems to run cooler after that.


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## pearljam50000

Is anyone using the micro with the HD800 as DAC/amp?


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## kugino

pearljam50000 said:


> Is anyone using the micro with the HD800 as DAC/amp?


 

 i've been listening via the h900...i'll try out the hd800 with them later tonight or tomorrow.


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## pearljam50000

Thanks.


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## KmanChu

nbourbaki said:


> Have you tried it with both USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports?


 
 I am using with my USB 3.0 port. I can switch it back and forth between 2 or 3 ports with no difficulty.


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## hoth

I've been looking at this as a portable solution for hopefully driving planars.  Anyone try planars or other hard to drive cans with this exclusively?  thanks!


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## maricius

The first review of the iDSD Micro… Lovely. I can't wait for more


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## john57

I know of JhWalker over at Computer Audiophile that has a HE-500 and it drives it very well.
 I have the Fostex planner and I do not even have to turn up the volume from my previous more sensitive headphone setting. Previous I have to always turn up the power for the Fostex. Not even my Schitt Lyr can do that.
 Now it seems to be a bit stronger today than the first day yesterday!


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## jhwalker

john57 said:


> I know of JhWalker over at Computer Audiophile that has a HE-500 and it drives it very well.
> I have the Fostex planner and I do not even have to turn up the volume from my previous more sensitive headphone setting. Previous I have to always turn up the power for the Fostex. Not even my Schitt Lyr can do that.
> Now it seems to be a bit stronger today than the first day yesterday!


 

 Hey, john57 - I was just about to post myself 
  
 Yes, I've found the Micro drives the HE-500 very well, even at the "Normal" setting - certainly, much better than any portable device I've used before.
  
 I tried it with the "Turbo" setting and that was almost too much of a good thing!  I may try it again later, but for now I'm happy with Normal.
  
 And, by the way, this thing sounds absolutely awesome, regardless of the quality of the headphone amp   I was very happy with my Nano, but this is a substantial improvement in every way - I was surprised how much better it is (was expecting one of those "subtle", incremental enhancements).


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## maricius

Has anyone already tried them as a DAC to another amp or compared to another standalone DAC? Also, has anyone tried it as just an headphone amplifier and compared them to other headphone amps, the TOTL portable amps and some desktop amps? I really wonder whether the iDSD, even just the DAC section plays against similarly prized or maybe even more expensive desktop DACs


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## U2nite

Hi all, 
  
I'm new here. Had so much fun reading about the iDSD Micro that I ordered one 
  
Wow. I love the iDSD Micro sound. So clear, smooth & expressive.  
  
My setup:  iMac (Audirvana+) > iDSD Micro/ iDac > Leben CS300XS > PSB M4U1. 
  
SACD music is my favourite. CD quality music sounds much better than I've heard before in my setup. 
  
Now back to exploring my music collection.


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## maricius

u2nite said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new here. Had so much fun reading about the iDSD Micro that I ordered one
> 
> ...


 
  
 Care to compare the iDAC with the iDSD in detail purely with CD quality stuff/PCM?


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## U2nite

maricius said:


> Care to compare the iDAC with the iDSD in detail purely with CD quality stuff/PCM?


 
  
Good question. I'm no expert but here's what I heard:
 
Album: Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms (Apple lossless PCM  - no up sample, no EQ)
 
iDSD Micro.
Guitars sound better to me, more real. Male voices sounds more natural. 
Enjoyment: 9/10
 
iDAC
More relax.  Male voices stand out slightly less from music. Slightly brighter. 
Enjoyment: 7.5/10
  
 Setup: iMac (Audirvana+) > iDSD Micro/ iDac.
  
I could listen longer on the iDSD.


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## WNBC

This is what I want to see as well.  I had the iDSD Nano and while it was a very capable DAC/amp the line out was under-powered and I could not use it with my 3.0 USB ports at the time so I did move on.  My interest is peaked again in the iFi lineup with their new Micro.  I have owned some fabulous higher end DACs like the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2, Ciunas (personal fav), Anedio D2, Oppo BDP-105, etc. and so to hear the Micro before buying would lead to an easy quick decision on the $500 purchase.  I doubt there are any loaners out there.  Maybe another purchase coming soon..............     
  
  
 Quote:


maricius said:


> Has anyone already tried them as a DAC to another amp or compared to another standalone DAC? Also, has anyone tried it as just an headphone amplifier and compared them to other headphone amps, the TOTL portable amps and some desktop amps? I really wonder whether the iDSD, even just the DAC section plays against similarly prized or maybe even more expensive desktop DACs


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## john57

What nice about the micro is flexibility in play from ultra senstive IEM's to the HE-6. It has three power modes and  a IE Match switch which allows you to fine tune the micro to the headphones like for best volume range and S/N for example.  I had no trouble with the Nano on my USB3 ports at the time. I think that you will find that the micro is one of the more powerful transportable unit around.


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## MLGrado

u2nite said:


> Good question. I'm no expert but here's what I heard:
> 
> Album: Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms (Apple lossless PCM  - no up sample, no EQ)
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I get the sense that the extra cost of the iDSD Micro over the iDAC is about more than just added features and formats.  The iDAC is still in the lineup, and at its price is a fine PCM only DAC built on the ESS chipset that is enjoyed by many.  But I feel the iDSD Micro is an evolutionary step forward, encompassing refinements from what iFi has learned, and contains tech that iFi would have liked to implement previously but couldn't due to price and technology restraints.  The BitPerfect filter is an example of this.


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## sonixen

> ... while it was a very capable DAC/amp the line out was under-powered and I could not use it with my 3.0 USB ports at the time so I did move on ...


 
  
 If you still have the idsd nano, do you already have the latest firmware for it? Should solve your prior USB 3.0 problems. Else check out with the various retailers perhaps they have some  satisfaction guarantee or something to purchase the micro idsd. Yeah you have owned some really nice gear. Looking forward to your impressions


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## john57

Yes the bit perfect filter if that is the cause just made playing back PCM files more natural and clear. Much better than the Nano. I have to try different filters with DSD


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## MLGrado

john57 said:


> Yes the bit perfect filter if that is the cause just made playing back PCM files more natural and clear. Much better than the Nano. I have to try different filters with DSD


 
  
 indeed.  Much better than the Nano on PCM.  
  
  
 The filter settings on DSD shouldn't make as much a difference.  They are just different cutoff frequencies.  The tradeoff between 'standard' and 'extreme' is less ultrasonic noise rejection for better time response.  The higher the sample rate, the less tradeoff there is between time response and noise rejection.  You can start to have your cake and eat it too!
  
 On paper, so to speak, "Standard" should be better suited for DSD64, while DSD256/512 should be best suited by "Extreme."
  
 In practice, though, listening is of course key.  All should note that the gain setting between the three is quite different, and is what you will immediately notice upon switching.  Any sound quality assessments should take this into account.


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## U2nite

I read there was a PDF on how to up sample from MP3 to DSD. Can someone share the link to it please?


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## iFi audio

u2nite said:


> I read there was a PDF on how to up sample from MP3 to DSD. Can someone share the link to it please?


 

 Hi,
  
 Go to:
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 And open a ticket and one of our staff will send through the pdf.
  
 Thanks!


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## U2nite

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Go to:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Noted I have done that. Thanks.


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## john57

Listening is of course key and I agree with that statement. I find that the filter effects are more pronounced than subtle or maybe. With DSD files it is still not subtle. I find that for example on the extreme position, the trumpet fanfare in the beginning of Mahler Fifth Symphony on the DSD file from nativeDSD website. I hear more interactions the trumpet with the hall acoustics than using the extended position.    My Byers T70 and the Sony 7520 is just great with the brass instruments reproduction on the iDSD, even better in some case than my tube amps. Listening sessions still on going.


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## MLGrado

john57 said:


> Listening is of course key and I agree with that statement. I find that the filter effects are more pronounced than subtle or maybe. With DSD files it is still not subtle. I find that for example on the extreme position, the trumpet fanfare in the beginning of Mahler Fifth Symphony on the DSD file from nativeDSD website. I hear more interactions the trumpet with the hall acoustics than using the extended position.    My Byers T70 and the Sony 7520 is just great with the brass instruments reproduction on the iDSD, even better in some case than my tube amps. Listening sessions still on going.





I will clarify that I didn't mean to imply there was little or no difference in the DSD filter settings, I just don't feel they are as dramatic a difference as the BitPerfect filter on PCM. 


What DSD rate are you listening to on that Mahler 5? I know they have several up sampled versions in addition to the native DSD64.


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## john57

Just their native DSD64 playing natively. The fifth and the second Mahler pieces are quite good. Some of the old PCM files I have made from analog tapes from the late 50's or 60's sound better with the filter switch set to minimum-phase.  With the Nano I tend to convert to 4xDSD on PCM files. I feel that with the micro the PCM files sounded better natively.


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## U2nite

john57 said:


> Just their native DSD64 playing natively. The fifth and the second Mahler pieces are quite good. Some of the old PCM files I have made from analog tapes from the late 50's or 60's sound better with the filter switch set to minimum-phase.  With the Nano I tend to convert to 4xDSD on PCM files. I feel that with the micro the PCM files sounded better natively.


 
  
  
 That is good news. Less effort need to do conversion then. 
  
 Please share more on your filter switch settings for DSD64 and PCM as you explore.


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## MLGrado

john57 said:


> Just their native DSD64 playing natively. The fifth and the second Mahler pieces are quite good. Some of the old PCM files I have made from analog tapes from the late 50's or 60's sound better with the filter switch set to minimum-phase.  With the Nano I tend to convert to 4xDSD on PCM files. I feel that with the micro the PCM files sounded better natively.


 
  
 Your experience is the same as mine.  I felt converting everything to DSD was best on the Nano.  That isn't the case with the Micro.  I would normally prefer to listen to everything in its native format, but on the Nano I made an exception.  Not necessary on the Micro.  
  
 PCM sounds best as PCM, and likewise DSD as DSD on the Micro.  
  
  
 Interesting.  I wonder why minimum phase would sound better on the analog tape transfers.  Maybe the ultrasonic images in Bitperfect combined with the typical analog tape noise don't play as nicely together?


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## pearljam50000

Anyone compared the Micro to DAC's other than the Nano?
 How powerful is the amp in turbo mode with hard to drive headphones?
 Sorry for the many questions.


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## john57

mlgrado said:


> Your experience is the same as mine.  I felt converting everything to DSD was best on the Nano.  That isn't the case with the Micro.  I would normally prefer to listen to everything in its native format, but on the Nano I made an exception.  Not necessary on the Micro.
> 
> PCM sounds best as PCM, and likewise DSD as DSD on the Micro.
> 
> ...


 

 While I do not have all the answers my feeling that with the real old analog tapes is that bit perfect filter just bring out all the imperfections of the recording technology of its time. Not an issue with more modern recordings.  I did had at one time wonderful sounding open reel tapes made by BARCLAY-CROCKER that were so far superior to vinyl records when both were sourced from the same master tapes. This web site gave a few points why the BARCLAY-CROCKER tapes were better.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Barclay-Crocker-Reel-Tapes-/10000000003419204/g.html
 The tape deck I was using was far nosier than the tapes due to big capstan and reel motors.
  
 While I still have some vinyl records I am not buying any if I can find music that I would like. I have been buying CD’s versions of the LP records I have since having a good performance of the music is important.
 With DSD music places like Channel Classics, try to use good care in recording the musicians.  I have not lost sight that you still need good musicians, good performances and good recording techniques to make great recordings. There are some real gems in DSD recordings as well.


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## john57

pearljam50000 said:


> Anyone compared the Micro to DAC's other than the Nano?
> How powerful is the amp in turbo mode with hard to drive headphones?
> Sorry for the many questions.


 
 Yes I have and in normal mode I feel that my micro is as strong as my Schiit Lyr amp with the best tubes I can find with it.
 I have try various headphones including my Fostex planners no issues. I also have speakers amps setup to drive headphones. I have not feel the need to use them over the micro yet.
  
 Sorry I have not tried the turbo mode, no need at this time.


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## jexby

john57 said:


> Yes I have and in normal mode I feel that my micro is as strong as my Schiit Lyr amp with the best tubes I can find with it.
> I have try various headphones including my Fostex planners no issues. I also have speakers amps setup to drive headphones. I have not feel the need to use them over the micro yet.
> 
> Sorry I have not tried the turbo mode, no need at this time.


 
  
 I am only in day 1 (after recharge) of new micro iDSD testing/listening/comparing.
 but to focus on your point above regarding "strong as Lyr":
 I'd concur that the Turbo mode is almost to the point of "insane power!"  with most songs, ears can't take Turbo with HE-560.
  
 And the Lyr is a notable power monster.  had one in the past, and now considering a Lyr2 as:
  
 with HE-560 to Vali and Concero HD, certainly don't listen to volume knob past 11am and there is nice wide soundstage, instrument separation, clarity.  (but strains as knob goes louder)
 with HE-560 to micro iDSD (Normal Power mode, or Turbo with knob down) the soundstage is narrowed, and there isn't as much "space" in the song presentation. headphone sound feels smaller.
 details and dynamics still very well executed, just in a tighter space.
  
 anyone have micro iDSD soundstage comparisons to other desktop amps?
 (don't want to start a burn in debate)
  
  
 After a few more days of listening with HE-560, it might become apparent that a "powerful + good hybrid tube amp" (Lyr2) may provide sonic benefits over a "powerful + good SS transportable amp" (micro iDSD).
  
 other quick comments:
 1.  VERY happy with the IEMatch features on micro iDSD, and it's DEAD black background and silent volume knob operation!  especially compared to nano iDSD without attenuators.
 2.  some songs the 3D effect is a plus, with others the slight echo/buzz effect seems unrealistic.  typical I suspect, my first foray with this feature.
 3.  velvet bag is almost "too tight" if rubber bands are left on micro iDSD before insertion.  too much friction.
 4.  Xbass a welcome feature and really doesn't "over do it" during listening with HE-560 or IEMs.  whether I flip this switch seems to be song-type, headphone and mood dependent.
 5.  haven't messed much with filters yet, but need to review the Best Practices for each with PCM vs. DSD material before trying.  leaving on Minimum Phase for now.


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## pearljam50000

Excellent impressions jexby!
How would you say the micro compares to the Concero HD as DAC only(i'm not sure it's possible to test)


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## john57

For sound stage the micro is more focused, great channel separation, very good separation of instruments. With my lyr and the LD VI+ is sound stage is a bit wider but the micro has good front to back depth.  Not a negative for the micro just different presentation which I enjoy.  My initial impression of the 3D is making musicians feel like they are moving front and back. In some other cases the 3D cause the sound stage to get wider. Next I will try to connect the micro directly to the monitors.


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## jexby

pearljam50000 said:


> Excellent impressions jexby!
> How would you say the micro compares to the Concero HD as DAC only(i'm not sure it's possible to test)


 
  
 indeed, could swap out the Concero HD, put in the micro iDSD and run the RCA cables into Vali.
 would be until next week until I give that config a few hours of comparison.


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## pearljam50000

Thanks


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## tf1216

Has anyone got the LED to turn yellow for 192 kHz or 382 kHz tracks?


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## john57

No problem in getting the led to turn yellow with PCM at 192k


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## tf1216

Ahh, forget me.  I had my JRiver settings messed up.


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## technobear

Got the T1 plugged into the iDSD for burning in. I don't usually listen much during equipment burn-in as it's normally torture but I wanted to watch a movie so I thought what the heck let's give it a go. The movie was very good. I don't know if I picked a movie with a fantastic sound track by pure luck but I was conscious throughout that the sound was unusually clear and when music appeared it was tuneful and well timed and clean.

OK, well that went well so I thought I'd play some music and see what transpired. Now I should at this point tell you that I am used to an Audiolab 8200CDQ (CD player of the year 3 years running, more awards than you can shake a stick at, still king of the hill at its price point 3 years after launch) so I have pretty high expectations. That machine has been taking my breathe away and sending shivers down my spine every day for more than 3 years now. The previous ifi effort, the iDAC, failed to impress me by comparison so I was a little nervous about the iDSD. How well would it hold up?

My misgivings were dispelled in 5 seconds flat! I could tell straight away that this was a cut above. I'd stuck on a Chris Rea track, _"Texas"_ just to chill out after the movie. There were chills alright. Wow. So, a tougher test, some Eva Cassidy and _"Stormy Monday"_ from _"Live At Blues Alley"_ (if you haven't heard it, you really should). Superb. Sounded like I expected it to, only, errm, a bit better. Something about the treble. It's very clean.

OK, let's try something a bit dirty. Linkin Park? Walk in the park more like. Nirvana? Audioslave? Led Zepellin? Drenge? Hmm. Seems there's no wrong footing this baby. Plenty of chair-dancing going on here. I know it's a cliché but it really does sound a lot like analogue. It times wonderfully. It isn't in the least fatiguing. Bit Perfect eh? I think they are on to something there. 

Two all time favourites, _"Love Over Gold"_ by Dire Straits and _"Someone Saved My Life Tonight"_ by Elton John were equally good. Can you tell I have broad musical tastes?  Pearl Jam and Metallica were also well served as was some early Black Sabbath _("Sabotage")._

By the way this is all 16/44.1 FLAC played by foobar2000. I'll try torturing it with some MP3 tomorrow. For now, time for the ultimate test then...

There's one track I always love to play at hifi shows. I wish I had a dollar for every $$$$$$$ system that has fallen in an embarrassed heap trying to reproduce it. It's fast, it's dense, it's intense but also has moments of supreme musical beauty, tonal colour and passion. Yes, it's _"Lines In The Sand"_ by Dream Theater. I was in tears by the end (in a good way). 

Well, what can I say but ifi Audio, you have hit the ball right out of the park with this one. The micro iDSD is
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

*** AWESOME ***

...and it's not even hardly begun to burn in yet 

[COLOR=FF00AA](somebody please buy my Audiolab)[/COLOR]


----------



## KmanChu

maricius said:


> Has anyone already tried them as a DAC to another amp or compared to another standalone DAC? Also, has anyone tried it as just an headphone amplifier and compared them to other headphone amps, the TOTL portable amps and some desktop amps? I really wonder whether the iDSD, even just the DAC section plays against similarly prized or maybe even more expensive desktop DACs


 
  
 I am using the micro iDSD into a Red Wine Audio Cassabria. I am comparing it directly to the (far more expensive) BMC PureDAC. My amp has two inputs so I can alternate between dacs by merely switching the output device in JRiver and flipping a switch on the amp. 
  
 The iDSD sounds very, very good as a dedicated DAC. It definitely does not embarrass itself and I could be very happy listening to it as my main DAC. I have the iDAC and the sound is in some ways similar, but ultimately the iDSD is smoother and makes the iDAC sound a little rough. When playing PCM it has a very good sound, that has a nice sound stage. I would say that iFi emphasized a smooth and non-fatiguing sound.
  
 Next to the BMC, however, the iDSD definitely gives up some spaciousness and some detail. I would call the iDSD warm of neutral, where the BMC is almost dead neutral (maybe slightly warm, but not near as much.) Where the iDSD really, really shines, however, is with DSD material. DSD sounds completely different than PCM. The BMC has more similar sound between DSD and PCM (makes sense as its a single chip Sabre device.) 
  
 I think the bottom line is that iFi components have a sound to them, that is a little warm. (I own the iDAC, iDSD and iCAN, so I feel I can say this with a little certainty.) My only criticism of it is that sometimes it doesn't quite have the sparkle that some other components may have. If you have heard other iFi devices and like how they sound, then you will love the iDSD as I think it is the most impressive component they have put out under the iFi badge. The iDSD is by far the best compact dac I have used. Even without all of the impressive headphone features, it would be worth its cost just as a straight USB DAC. Highly recommended.


----------



## Nuttinbutair

Intriguing reviews so far all!  I will be very interested in impressions following a longer burn-in.  In the mean time, I may be selling a few items to free up some cash.


----------



## rptlead

Really excited! My iDSD micro arrived in my US address early this week but unfortunately, i have to wait a bit more for the gf to bring it over where I am now. very good reviews!
  
 that being said, anyone else here who has this stack:  
  
 i_*USB>iGemini>iPurifier>iDSD Nano>iTube>iCan Micro *_ 
  
 Should I just replace the iDSD Nano with my IDSD micro?  Or should I take out the iCan? If i do, will the iTube still be in the same position on the pipeline?  and what should i still be using +6db on the iTube?  Should I take out iPurifier as well in favor of the built in ipurifier in the iDSD Micro?
  
 lotsa questions! I hope our friends from iFI can chime in as well!
  
 thanks!


----------



## MLGrado

I just wanted to add for those of you reading these reviews and wondering what the heck this 'Bitperfect' talk is all about, it is simply iFi's fancy term for non-oversampling.  
  
 Normally PCM DAC's use some kind of oversampling reconstruction filter to eliminate images.  If you look at a graphic of a digital signal, you will see it contains a series of stair-steps rather than a smooth sine wave.  The reconstruction filter smooths out these stairsteps to give us an audio signal that is more like a sine wave.  
  
 If you don't filter the audio, these stair steps are images of the actual audio in the 'non-audio' band above the Nyquist frequency.  
  
 But again, we can't hear them directly, so a lot of people think it is a good idea to just leave it alone and not filter, since filtering creates a whole new set of problems that may very well affect the audio in a negative way.  Well, at least that is the position of people who believe in NOS filtering.
  
  
 So that is NOS, or non-oversampling, in a nutshell, as best I understand it.  
  
 I agree with iFi and their technical director, Thorsten Loesch, that NOS or 'BitPerfect' is the best filter, or as it is, non-filter option.


----------



## MLGrado

rptlead said:


> Really excited! My iDSD micro arrived in my US address early this week but unfortunately, i have to wait a bit more for the gf to bring it over where I am now. very good reviews!
> 
> that being said, anyone else here who has this stack:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh, definitely replace the Nano and leave in the iCan!  
  
 The headphone amp in the Micro is quite good, and is very powerful, but it uses an Op-amp while the iCan uses discrete analog circuitry.
  
 And the analog circuitry in the Micro is head and shoulders above the Nano.  The Digital section in both is pretty similar, actually.  It is the superior analog circuitry that makes all the difference.  
  
 It is interesting I just had a discussion today with Thorsten L. about exactly what components make the most difference in the various iFi products.


----------



## ClieOS

iCAN isn't fully discrete though, just the gain stage. The headphone driver is still integrated chip based.


----------



## jexby

mlgrado said:


> It is interesting I just had a discussion today with Thorsten L. about exactly what components make the most difference in the various iFi products.


 
  
 Oh to have been a fly on the wall in that conversation!
  
 anything shareable in summary from that talk would be very welcome.
  
 back to micro iDSD and IEMs for late night listening....


----------



## rptlead

mlgrado said:


> Oh, definitely replace the Nano and leave in the iCan!
> 
> The headphone amp in the Micro is quite good, and is very powerful, but it uses an Op-amp while the iCan uses discrete analog circuitry.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks! Although ill definitely try 'mix and match'-ing, reading this is very reassuring indeed!  So looks like ill have the full stack desktop micro version and a portable ican-idsd nano to take with me on the road.  

 i've read somewhere that although the iDSD micro has ipurifier on board, it can still benefit from the dedicated iPurifier?  is that accurate?
  
 thanks again!


----------



## RadioWonder737

Quote from iFi Audio... Love this... "But if you run on USB power and use the iUSB, Gemini and iPurifier, you are putting in Shell Nitro."
  
"Hi,
  
 Some background, in descending order of impact (see brackets for equivalent hifi-examples):
  
  
 1. iUSB Power = PS audio mains regenerator (pure, clean mains)
  
 2. Gemini = separate audio+power cables you don’t twist ICs and PCs together in hifi system?)
  
 3. iPurifier = audio + power filter (eg mains filter, but in this device for audio as well)
  
 Tech Notes here for more exhaustive reading: http://ifi-audio.com/tech-notes/
  
  
 So as you can see, they all perform different tasks. Fundamentally, USB was not originally designed for high-quality audio playback.

 The micro iDSD has the iPurifier built-in. Please read previous post on Super Duper feature 2.2 (no point to repeat here).
  
  
Analogy
 If you have a Ferrari (the micro iDSD), normal USB power is the equivalent of putting Tesco Unleaded in.
  
 With the work we have done and if you run it on internal battery and with its internal iPurifier, it is the equivalent of putting in Shell Super.
  
 But if you run on USB power and use the iUSB, Gemini and iPurifier, you are putting in Shell Nitro.
  
 There is always no harm in doing the best that one can do. But with the case of the micro iDSD, it will not be as large as with another DAC.
  
 Thanks"

Edited by iFi audio - 7/16/14 at 6:22am


----------



## BillsonChang007

Eagerly waiting for mine to arrive. Said to arrive this Saturday but does anyone know if FedEx open business on Saturdays? @.@


----------



## MLGrado

jexby said:


> Oh to have been a fly on the wall in that conversation!
> 
> anything shareable in summary from that talk would be very welcome.
> 
> back to micro iDSD and IEMs for late night listening....


 
 Not a whole lot more than what I have already posted, actually.  
  
 Gain stage in iCan is discrete vs Op-amp in iDSD.  
  
 There was a significant investment in the iDSD Micro's analog stage.  The Nano has by comparison a primitive analog stage; most of the Nano budget is in the USB chipset and the Digital engine.  The Micro's digital engine didn't add a lot of cost to the design; it is basically the same.  The fact that the Micro can do DSD512 PCM768 is just a function of having two DAC chips instead of one.. Two can go twice as fast.  Therefore there is little or no extra cost by adding those features.  They are just a matter of programming.  The bulk of the extra cost is in upgraded analog components and power supply.  And that makes  a HUGE difference.  
  
  
 That is part of what makes iFi so great.  Thorsten and Vince are very accessible guys, who are very willing to interact with their customers.  If you have a technical question, Thorsten is quite willing to share info on the nuts and bolts of his products, and more importantly, the 'why' in his choices.  They don't ever seem too busy to interact with their customers, either.


----------



## MLGrado

rptlead said:


> Thanks! Although ill definitely try 'mix and match'-ing, reading this is very reassuring indeed!  So looks like ill have the full stack desktop micro version and a portable ican-idsd nano to take with me on the road.
> 
> i've read somewhere that although the iDSD micro has ipurifier on board, it can still benefit from the dedicated iPurifier?  is that accurate?
> 
> thanks again!


 
  
 I have an external iPurifier.  Leaving it in the signal chain seemed to add nothing over the internal one.


----------



## ClieOS

Just received the micro iDSD this afternoon and gave it a quick listening before committing it to the 24hrs recharging as recommended by iFi - and I am mighty impressed!!! My Xperia Z2 works right off the bat when I connected the OTG cable to micro iDSD. Neutron is singing as beautifully as I can ever hope for. It is pretty much the same level of SQ I have heard from my desktop iDAC + iCAN setup, and that really say something about the micro iDSD pairing with a smartphone.
  
 Did I mention I am really impressed? I truly am.


----------



## Wil

Has anyone tried the micro iDSD with a Grado GS1000?
  
 As impressed as i am with my Nano iDSD feeding my Adam active speakers it just doesnt cut the mustard powering the Grados.
  
 I intend to use it as a one box solution for my Grado and speakers, probably adding ancillary items like USB cables / I tube thereafter (but is it really all that necessary?)


----------



## ClieOS

Don't have the GS1000, but I do have the nano iDSD as well. Micro is far more power and easily two to thress classes better in SQ. It is just a totally different beast all together.


----------



## pearljam50000

What headphones are you using?


----------



## john57

billsonchang007 said:


> Eagerly waiting for mine to arrive. Said to arrive this Saturday but does anyone know if FedEx open business on Saturdays? @.@


 
 If it is FedEx Home Delivery which delivers Tuesday to Saturday. The shipper will then use the FedEx Home Delivery option. I have received FedEx delivery in the past on Saturdays.


----------



## tf1216

I am running my Micro with IEMatch set to "High Sensitivity" and the Power Mode set to "Eco".  I get wonderful use out of the volume control.  For a few internet videos that were quite I switched the Power Mode to "Normal" to handle that.  I'm very, very happy with the functionality of the Micro iDSD.


----------



## ClieOS

pearljam50000 said:


> What headphones are you using?


 
  
 Hifiman RE-0, which is my reference IEM. Haven't had the chance to pair it with other IEM I have yet, as it is getting recharged at the moment.


----------



## ljbrandt

mlgrado said:


> Not a whole lot more than what I have already posted, actually.
> 
> Gain stage in iCan is discrete vs Op-amp in iDSD.
> 
> ...


 
 I've been lurking for awhile, but eventually I was going to ask about this...
  
 I'm considering both the iDSD nano and micro for some desktop speakers (powered via tripath), not for headphone use.  Since I do not need any of the headphone related features and would strictly be using the RCA outs, would there be much benefit to spending the extra on the Micro?  I've seen that PCM material sounds better on the micro than the nano, but I'm wondering if this improvement is more on the headphone side than the pre-amp RCA outs, based on what you mentioned above.


----------



## adammax

Hi guys,
  
 Do you think ifi micro has any chance against the chord hugo? Would love to hear some opinion.


----------



## palermo

interesting, just because iDSD can connect to ipod 5 via CCK for transportable purpose. please make more comparation with Chyperlabs stack, especially with CL Theorem or Alo product.


----------



## MLGrado

ljbrandt said:


> I've been lurking for awhile, but eventually I was going to ask about this...
> 
> I'm considering both the iDSD nano and micro for some desktop speakers (powered via tripath), not for headphone use.  Since I do not need any of the headphone related features and would strictly be using the RCA outs, would there be much benefit to spending the extra on the Micro?  I've seen that PCM material sounds better on the micro than the nano, but I'm wondering if this improvement is more on the headphone side than the pre-amp RCA outs, based on what you mentioned above.


 
  
 I would think all the analog paths have been upgraded, not just the headphone out.  The Nano is a nice little product for the money, but the analog stage is very simple, and designed to sound 'non-offensive.'  The Nano sounds smooth and forgiving, but is notably lacking in resolution vs the Micro.  
  
  But sounds like a question for iFi.  Shoot them an email.  Typically they answer quickly.  But they may be in a bit of vacation mode after all the hard work they put in getting the Micro ready...


----------



## MLGrado

wil said:


> Has anyone tried the micro iDSD with a Grado GS1000?
> 
> As impressed as i am with my Nano iDSD feeding my Adam active speakers it just doesnt cut the mustard powering the Grados.
> 
> I intend to use it as a one box solution for my Grado and speakers, probably adding ancillary items like USB cables / I tube thereafter (but is it really all that necessary?)


 
  
 Not the GS1000, but I have the RS1i.  I think all the Grados have similar power needs, though.  
  
 I did feel that the Nano didn't provide the last word in authority driving the Grados, especially when the music got intense and complex.  
  
 The Micro does a much better job of keeping its composure.


----------



## dsnyder

I unboxed my ifi micro iDSD a few days ago also and took a few photos of the included adapters while I was waiting for that initial 24 hour charge to complete.  I'm now about 40 hours into my 100+ hour burn-in process, but I thought I'd take a few minutes to share the box contents.  The ifi micro iDSD box contains _a lot_ of adapters...eight to be precise!
 
There are two female USB Type-A to male Type-A cables--this small black one and a larger, heavier blue one (not pictured because I was using it for the crucial initial 24 hours of charging)  These are for charging the on-board 4800mAh battery and connecting the micro iDSD to a mobile device via an OTG adapter (Android) or Camera Connection Kit (iOS).  In this mode, your smartphone acts as a digital USB transport (special software required) for ultra high quality portable listening.  My OTG cable fits in the micro iDSD's unusual recessed male Type-A connection port, so I could strap this fairly heavy monster to my Samsung Galaxy Note II for high-end portable listening if I wished without having to use these cables.
 



  
 
There's a pair of inexpensive looking RCA cables and a gold 1/8" female to 1/4" male TRS adapter (the micro iDSD is equipped with a full-sized 1/4" headphone jack--good choice in my opinion for a premium headphone product)  Thankfully, the analog RCA outputs on the micro protrude more than those on the nano making it possible to use a wider range of audiophile interconnects (some will still be excluded because the jacks are still very close together):
 


  ​  ​ There are two female USB Type-A to female Type-B adapters...one is "zero length", and the other is rather short.  These are _critical_ as they are required to connect the micro iDSD's very odd recessed male Type-A USB input to a laptop or computer using standard audiophile grade USB cables like the ifi Gemini or Audioquest Diamond (terminated with male Type-B USB connectors on the DAC end).  I'm a little disappointed that the provided adapters do not incorporate gold plated connectors and are apparently not terminated with the same technology and care as the ifi Gemini/Mercury cables.  I'm told that these adapters do not impact sound quality, but it's something that's rather difficult for an audiophile to accept.  I also don't like seeing bits with a "RadioShack" look and feel in my otherwise uncompromising signal path, even if there is an on-board iPurifier to clean things up.  I would have happily paid $50 more for the ifi micro iDSD package if it included a "Gemini" quality adapter for this type of connection:
 


  ​  ​ Next are bits to plug into the 1/8" TRS analog input.  The short male-to-male cable is for connecting the analog headphone output of an iPod or similar such device.  In this mode, the micro just acts like a powerful analog headphone amplifier.  My understanding is that when connected thusly, the digital circuitry is powered down.  The other small plug is a TOSLINK S/PDIF adapter.  It enables 1/8" input to perform double-duty as an optical S/PDIF input...perhaps intended for use by someone who wants to use their micro iDSD with an Xbox for massive overkill gaming sound?:
 


  ​  
Finally, there are stick-on rubber feet for desk installation and a protective rubber sheet and bands for strapping the micro iDSD to an iPod or smartphone for "portable" listening (an unwieldy bundle in my opinion--I think I'll continue to use my nano iDSD for on-the-go listening):
 


  ​  
There's also a black velvet pull-tie case with the "ifi" logo (similar to the one that comes with the nano).  As you may have seen on the head-fi forums, early adopters also receive a (size Large) T-shirt, a laptop decal, and red ink used for the serial number on the micro iDSD plus an invitation to join the iClub.
 
I listened to the micro iDSD a little right after it finished the 24-hour charge, and the soundstage, mids, and highs were not there yet, which is similar to my experience with both of our nano iDSDs when fresh out of the box (rather dark sounding); I'm not worried.  Bass is deep, detailed, and better controlled than the nano already, so I can tell it's going to be _amazing_ after a hundred or so hours of burn-in.  I suspect that improvements due to burn-in may come slightly slower with the micro than the nano because of all of the extra gadgetry, but time will tell.  Cheers and happy listening!
 
-- David


----------



## technobear

dsnyder said:


> I listened to the micro iDSD a little right after it finished the 24-hour charge, and the soundstage, mids, and highs were not there yet, which is similar to my experience with both of our nano iDSDs when fresh out of the box (rather dark sounding);




Just switch on the 3D 

(if your inner audiophile can bear the thought that is )


----------



## jexby

iFi Audio Genius Folk,
  
 can you please 3D print or mold a hard case that is sized to closely-match the micro iDSD form factor??
 I'd purchase one in a femto second.
  
 would love to haul my micro iDSD to work, home, trips each day, but can't find a Pelican Micro Case (or similar) that fits the micro iDSD well at all due to length primarily,
 or without it feeling like a thick shoe box.
 the shorter nano iDSD would fit in a Pelican Micro Case 1050 or 1040, but micro iDSD is too long. 
  
 if ifi-audio can design the iRack stainless steel rack, seems an iAudioCase needs to be next for transportable device safety?
 cheers


----------



## john57

If it was me and I have a need to carry my micro and allow it to work during the trip. I would think of using a Colorado Special Ops Sling Bag or some thing similar.


----------



## Dixter

john57 said:


> If it was me and I have a need to carry my micro and allow it to work during the trip. I would think of using a Colorado Special Ops Sling Bag or some thing similar.


 

 I'm thinking the case of the micro sorta is the size of a magazine for an automatic gun....   I plan on looking in the gun stores for a magazine case... I'm sure I can find one that fits perfectly and rugged to boot...


----------



## jexby

john57 said:


> If it was me and I have a need to carry my micro and allow it to work during the trip. I would think of using a Colorado Special Ops Sling Bag or some thing similar.


 
  
 ah, cool looking product.
  
 was looking more for a shockproof, waterproof-ish "hard case" in which the micro iDSD snugly sits.
 and then the whole hardcase is tossed inside a Sling bag or an Osprey Courier bag. 
  
 Pelican Micro Case 1050 fit CEntrance M8 very well, but M8 was already box-like.
 alas, M8 is sold now for obvious (micro) reasons.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit:
 this may fit the micro iDSD:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BJAPMSK


----------



## Dixter

Finally got mine and all charged up and been playing with it for a couple hours now...    its cool no doubt about that...
  
 what I'm having the best time with is the fact that I can hook up my Fiio X5 via Coax and let the idsd Micro do its magic...  thats a heck of a lot better than any Iphone/Ipad for portability as it holds up to 3 125GB cards of music....  and it sounds fantastic out of the Micro...  the amp and all of the optional selections on the amp is just fantastic...   playing very well with everything I'm plugging in to it...


----------



## WNBC

Any thoughts on X5 vs iDSD Micro as independent units?  
  
  
 Quote:


dixter said:


> Finally got mine and all charged up and been playing with it for a couple hours now...    its cool no doubt about that...
> 
> what I'm having the best time with is the fact that I can hook up my Fiio X5 via Coax and let the idsd Micro do its magic...  thats a heck of a lot better than any Iphone/Ipad for portability as it holds up to 3 125GB cards of music....  and it sounds fantastic out of the Micro...  the amp and all of the optional selections on the amp is just fantastic...   playing very well with everything I'm plugging in to it...


----------



## BillsonChang007

This^ 

The Micro iDSD for Shure wins in terms of features, and power as well as the duo DAC. But what about the overall SQ


----------



## john57

jexby said:


> this may fit the micro iDSD:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BJAPMSK


 
 need another inch to clear the RCA and volume knob.


----------



## Dixter

" Any thoughts on X5 vs iDSD Micro as independent units?  "
  
 Well I like the X5 as it is super nice to be able to carry that much music around with you...  and I think its amp works very well with IEM's but not so much for harder to drive over the ear phones...
 and it does mate up fine with the E12 and the E12 add's more options like base boost and cross feed so they mate up well and add more power and functions...
  
 But,  the X5/E12 combo is not using a dual DAC like the idsd micro and there are even more options to fine tune the sound and the amp is so much more SQ wise and options are there to handle every IEM or over the ears phones you could throw at it...     
  
 The thing with me is I don't like to carry around a laptop with external hard drive unless I'm at the office or something where I don't have to worry about leaving the setup out....  but for trips out of town where I would be in a motel or condo...  the X5/idsd micro is perfect...  and if you decide you want to go out somewhere you can just grab the X5 and a set of IEM's and your good to go...   very flexible in how you use it...     The X5 does not do dsd native, its PCM...  but it still sounds pretty good at that... and remember the coax out is also PCM...  no problem as long as your FLAC/DSD files are clean...    think of the X5 as a music transport that can be used with its built in amp or you can up the performance with a micro for even better DAC/AMP


----------



## jexby

john57 said:


> need another inch to clear the RCA and volume knob.




Yah rats. Just remeasured as iFi doesn't take knobs into account on physical specs on web.


----------



## WNBC

Thank you for the info.  I ordered one of the special edition iDSD micro this morning.  I thought I'd be using the X5 as a portable solution but turns out I like having one device in my pocket and it's my phone which can drive most IEMs no problem.  If I don't end up selling the X5 prior to the Micro arriving I can do a comparison.  The X5 line out has been widely said to be one of its strong points.  I'm not feeding the X5 into anything else so the headphone out is my most used option and the amp section handles portable headphones and IEMs very well.  
  
 If I do end up selling my X5 then my iPhone/iPad (via CCK) or laptop will be feeding the Micro.  Lots of possibilities even in the streaming realm using various apps like JRiver, cloud-based music storage, Amazon/iTunes players, etc.  Should be fun.  
  
  
  
 Quote:


dixter said:


> " Any thoughts on X5 vs iDSD Micro as independent units?  "
> 
> Well I like the X5 as it is super nice to be able to carry that much music around with you...  and I think its amp works very well with IEM's but not so much for harder to drive over the ear phones...
> and it does mate up fine with the E12 and the E12 add's more options like base boost and cross feed so they mate up well and add more power and functions...
> ...


----------



## Dixter

Don't use the X5 line out...    that would have the X5 DAC doing the conversion....   in the box for the X5 there is a short Coaxial cable... use the coax output into the micro( rear of unit)... then let the micro do the conversion and the amp...   that way your just using the X5 as the music transport...


----------



## ClieOS

dixter said:


> Don't use the X5 line out...    that would have the X5 DAC doing the conversion....   in the box for the X5 there is a short Coaxial cable... use the coax output into the micro( rear of unit)... then let the micro do the conversion and the amp...   that way your just using the X5 as the music transport...


 
  
 You will need another cable as the coax cable that comes with X5 is has a female plug, same as micro iDSD.
  
 I tried X5 + micro iDSD via coax, and the result is just great.


----------



## sonixen

Heads up ! MLGrado's micro idsd review has made it to the main page as Head Fi's feature content.
  
 @ MLGrado and Technobear
  
 Thanks for the impressions. Noticed that both of you have the iUSB in the playback chain aka as "Shell Nitro". Any impressions with removing the iUSB from the chain? Rather curious since iFi spent quite sometime working on the Power Supply section of the micro + coupled with the iPurifier.


----------



## Jobbing

Anyone able to do a comparison with the Vorzamp (Duo) ? If possible paired with X5


----------



## Panch0

Anyone paired the micro iDSD with a DX50 coaxial out?


----------



## ClieOS

panch0 said:


> Anyone paired the micro iDSD with a DX50 coaxial out?


 
  
 Tried, no problem to get them work together.


----------



## Panch0

Thanks ClieOS. 
Any difference between micro iDSD + dx50 and micro iDSD +x5? Witch combo sounds better?


----------



## BillsonChang007

If you were to use a coaxial out, both the DAC and Amplifier will be bypassed and in this case, the DAP will be using both Micro iDSD's DAC and amp. Thus, either of the DAP plugged into the Micro iDSD, will have the same result  

Hope it helps
Billson


----------



## ClieOS

As BillsonChang007 said, both DX50 and X5 only serves as a transport, thus the SQ is pretty much the same. You can probably use an X3 and still get similar result.


----------



## Rob N

At last I have mine


----------



## Panch0

Thanks for the replys. I asked because my iPod 7th gen 160gb sounds better to me with my CLAS then a iPod 6th gen 80gb. For now I will stay with dx50 and see how it sounds.

By the way, my micro iDSD arrived today


----------



## maricius

panch0 said:


> Thanks for the replys. I asked because my iPod 7th gen 160gb sounds better to me with my CLAS then a iPod 6th gen 80gb. For now I will stay with dx50 and see how it sounds.
> 
> By the way, my micro iDSD arrived today


 
  
 why don't you check whether you can notice a difference between the coaxial from your CLAS compared to the coaxial from your DX50? Even to a greater degree, why don't you see if you can notice a difference between the coaxial out with the CLAS using both iPods? I'd love to see subjective impressions. Enjoy your new toy


----------



## MLGrado

An update after listening for a few more days.  
  
  
 The iDSD Micro is so much more resolving of fine detail than the iDSD Nano.  That being the case, with the Nano I really had a hard time hearing differences with the various filters, whether on PCM or DSD, except for what I will note below.  
  
 Not so with the Micro.  The various filters all make very notable differences, including the DSD filters.  
  
  
 On the Nano, you had two options for DSD filtering, Standard and Extended.  I know from my conversations with iFi that the cutoff for the Standard filter is 85khz, the Extended is 185khz.  Note that these cutoffs are for DSD64 only.  The filter cutoff scales along with the bitstream speed.  
  
 The Micro adds an 'Extreme' setting.  185khz is the highest setting available, though, on the DSD1793 chipset.  I confirmed with iFi that the Micro is still using the standard filter options that are onboard the DSD1793, so I conclude that "Extreme" on the Micro and "Extended" on the Nano are actually the same setting.  The terminology isn't consistent between the two DAC's.  Now I could be wrong, but this does seem to be the case.  
  
  
 DSD puts a very high amount of ultrasonic noise into the signal.  Even though we can't hear it, it has a very real effect on the circuitry of our equipment, creating potential issues like intermodulation distortion that folds down from the ultrasonic band into the audible band.  So we need to filter out this noise.   The only problem is, with DSD64 at least, if we want to filter out most of this noise, we need a steep filter that starts to attenuate at the 20khz mark.  Well, this is unacceptable, because it makes our signal really no better than 44khz redbook CD!  We lose all that extra temporal information available in the DSD file.  
  
 So, any filter we use is going to be a compromise in allowing ultrasonic noise vs resolution.  
  
 On the Nano, I settled on the standard filter because I thought the Extended allowed too much ultrasonic noise through.  There seemed to be a harshness at the Extended setting.  
  
 On the Micro, though, I don't really hear the same harshness using the Extended/Extreme filtering.  Maybe just a touch of it, but there seems to be an increase in detail, improved imaging, and overall more life when using the Extreme setting.  Whatever extra touch of harshness there might be from the increased ultrasonics is outweighed by the greater detail, brilliance and overall increase in fidelity.  
  
  
 Also, while I believe in break-in for things like headphones, speakers, and maybe Valve electronics, I expect solid-state components to only need proper warmup and minimal run-in to 'settle in'.  But I will say that with the Micro, it does seem to be getting better with time.  Maybe a touch more open and expansive.


----------



## john57

I noticed that my micro seems to get a bit stronger nowadays. I normally use my Fostex T50RP headphones more or less for testing purposes but I never heard my Fostex sounded so good before on the micro. I have six amps around the house but the micro iDSD takes the cake on the Fostex. The Fostex sounds more flatter and clearer on the micro iDSD.  I am going to retire my Shure 940 headphones. The high frequencies never has been good on it, kind of distorted and peaky. The durability of the headband is not good. I have other headphones to take the Shure place. The micro upscales very well with better headphones.


----------



## MLGrado

Also, I am a huge DSD fan, but the Micro sounds so spectacular on PCM, it is really turning me format agnostic.  
  
  
 Makes me wonder if a lot of the fuss over DSD is in response to improperly implemented PCM.  Don't get me wrong, I still love DSD, and it has a certain beautiful quality I find intoxicating.  But it seems that PCM can also take on those 'analog' qualities often associated with DSD.  Maybe it is all in the implementation?  
  
 Either way, both formats sound excellent on the iDSD Micro.  I am simply enjoying music now, and not worrying so much about format!!  Listening to Daft Punk right now, and it has never sounded better in my desktop system!!


----------



## pearljam50000

mlgrado said:


> Also, I am a huge DSD fan, but the Micro sounds so spectacular on PCM, it is really turning me format agnostic.
> 
> 
> Makes me wonder if a lot of the fuss over DSD is in response to improperly implemented PCM.  Don't get me wrong, I still love DSD, and it has a certain beautiful quality I find intoxicating.  But it seems that PCM can also take on those 'analog' qualities often associated with DSD.  Maybe it is all in the implementation?
> ...


 
 What DAC did you try before the micro?


----------



## kugino

mlgrado said:


> Also, I am a huge DSD fan, but the Micro sounds so spectacular on PCM, it is really turning me format agnostic.
> 
> 
> Makes me wonder if a lot of the fuss over DSD is in response to improperly implemented PCM.  Don't get me wrong, I still love DSD, and it has a certain beautiful quality I find intoxicating.  But it seems that PCM can also take on those 'analog' qualities often associated with DSD.  Maybe it is all in the implementation?
> ...


 

 nice. agree with you for the most part. as long as there's no cross-conversion going on, listening to DSD and PCM can both be great. what i love most about DSD and high bitrate PCM is that the mastering that goes into those files seems to much better, therefore leading to better sounding stuff. i love my micro, too...and not worrying so much about format.


----------



## john57

kugino said:


> nice. agree with you for the most part. as long as there's no cross-conversion going on, listening to DSD and PCM can both be great. what i love most about DSD and high bitrate PCM is that the mastering that goes into those files seems to much better, therefore leading to better sounding stuff. i love my micro, too...and not worrying so much about format.


 
 That's been my experience, since they are charging more for the DSD files it better have good mastering to go with it.   I still will buy some CD redbook files since PCM properly done is okay. Looking for the best recording of Arron Copland third Symphony. It is a very inspiring piece and may found it and coming next week. 
  
 Another advantage of the micro is that you do not have to be as concerned about horsepower from slow laptops to do PCM to DSD real time conversion since there will be less need to do this.


----------



## KmanChu

mlgrado said:


> Makes me wonder if a lot of the fuss over DSD is in response to improperly implemented PCM.  Don't get me wrong, I still love DSD, and it has a certain beautiful quality I find intoxicating.  But it seems that PCM can also take on those 'analog' qualities often associated with DSD.  Maybe it is all in the implementation?


 
  
 You are exactly correct. It is harder to build a good PCM dac than a good DSD dac. It's all in the implementation.


----------



## earfonia

mlgrado said:


> *THE SOUND*
> 
> 
> Now on to the good stuff! The sound! Crisp detailed highs, smooth upper mids, slightly warm lower mids and upper bass. Clean extension into the lows. Not too much bass; just about right. Does it deviate from neutral? That is something I am not sure I can answer. Tonal balance is the product of an entire system, and all I can tell you is how it sounds in mine, which is a custom built AMD PC running the latest Jriver Media Center software, iDSD micro, iFi iUSB power, iFi Gemini 'split' USB cable, and a modded USB cable eliminating the 5v line pre iUSB Power. The review headphones are Grado RS1i's.
> ...


 
  
 Nice and concise review, excellent!
 I've been eyeing iDSD micro for a while now... looks like it has the sound signature that suits my preferences.
 Between analytical to musically engaging, where is the iDSD micro position?
 Thanks!


----------



## john57

I personally do not like this scale between analytical to musically engaging, which implies that you are going to lose something from going to one end to another. I like to say my micro iDSD is realistic and detailed(Clarity) . I have very analytical headphones like my Stax but they still can be musically engaging if the performance and the mastering is done right.  In other words you can have it all.


----------



## earfonia

john57 said:


> I personally do not like this scale between analytical to musically engaging, which implies that you are going to lose something from going to one end to another. I like to say my micro iDSD is realistic and detailed(Clarity) . I have very analytical headphones like my Stax but they still can be musically engaging if the performance and the mastering is done right.  In other words you can have it all.


 
  
 That's good to know! Thanks!
 What I mean by analytical is, even the level of detail is very good, they would most likely causing ears fatigue after sometime.
 Musically engaging in my definition doesn't mean they are lacking in detail at all. Just like you said, realistic and detailed, and you like to listen to them for a very long time and immersed in the music.
 Just different definition I would say, but we are looking at the same thing.


----------



## roamling

I get very loud pops when I play DSD files over my iPad when using the Onkyo HF Player or 8player, these pops happen when I start a song, pause a song or switch to the next song.
 The same happens when I switch between PCM and DSD songs in JRiver 19.
  
 Is there any fix for that?


----------



## kugino

earfonia said:


> That's good to know! Thanks!
> What I mean by analytical is, even the level of detail is very good, they would most likely causing ears fatigue after sometime.
> Musically engaging in my definition doesn't mean they are lacking in detail at all. Just like you said, realistic and detailed, and you like to listen to them for a very long time and immersed in the music.
> Just different definition I would say, but we are looking at the same thing.


 

 based on your definitions, i would say that it's more a function of the recorded material and/or the headphone rather than the DAC/amp. sure, the iDSD has its specific sound signature, but i've found it to be quite neutral to dark - not as bright as, say, some other popular DAC implementations out there. i've been listening mostly with the th900 with a few listening sessions with the HD800. both are very detailed headphones, but i've never experienced ear fatigue with either. both the th900 and the hd800 have been known to be a bit perky on the treble end, but i haven't had a problem with that, either. as they say, YMMV, and one should try different headphone combinations to see what suits their listening preferences the best.


----------



## RadioWonder737

roamling said:


> I get very loud pops when I play DSD files over my iPad when using the Onkyo HF Player or 8player, these pops happen when I start a song, pause a song or switch to the next song.
> The same happens when I switch between PCM and DSD songs in JRiver 19.
> 
> Is there any fix for that?


 

 [size=medium]They talk about that problem here where JRiver testers meet... They are working on the problem and expect it to be resolved in the next build. john57 may have more input on that problem because he is a JRiver tester...[/size]
  
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=90537.msg622038#msg622038


----------



## roamling

radiowonder737 said:


> [size=medium]They talk about that problem here where JRiver testers meet... They are working on the problem and expect it to be resolved in the next build. john57 may have more input on that problem because he is a JRiver tester...[/size]
> 
> http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=90537.msg622038#msg622038


 
  
 but I even get the pops on my iPad running the Onkyo HF player, so if that is a software issue then its not just JRiver. Otherwise I wonder if any nano iDSD owners using the Onkyo HF player have that issue? I am trying to find out if the hardware might cause that pop. Right now I am not using the micro iDSD with the RCA out connected to my amp and speakers because of that/


----------



## RadioWonder737

roamling said:


> but I even get the pops on my iPad running the Onkyo HF player, so if that is a software issue then its not just JRiver. Otherwise I wonder if any nano iDSD owners using the Onkyo HF player have that issue? I am trying to find out if the hardware might cause that pop. Right now I am not using the micro iDSD with the RCA out connected to my amp and speakers because of that/


 

You may have missed the last post on that page... Hard to say,maybe iFi Audio can shed some light on this... Not just a JRiver problem... We don't know if user dtb300 has this problem with the Micro iDSD or another brand of DAC... Did you read all of his posts?
"Update Sunday afternoon:   Installed Foobar 2000 (latest version) and had no issues playing DSD songs:  stopping in the middle of a DSD, skipping from a DSD song to 16/44 or any non-dsd format, going from 16/44 or any non-DSD format to a DSD and no noise issues at all.

 A bit later on in the day...........it happened in Foobar too.  "


----------



## iFi audio

roamling said:


> but I even get the pops on my iPad running the Onkyo HF player, so if that is a software issue then its not just JRiver. Otherwise I wonder if any nano iDSD owners using the Onkyo HF player have that issue? I am trying to find out if the hardware might cause that pop. Right now I am not using the micro iDSD with the RCA out connected to my amp and speakers because of that/


 
 Hi,
  
 One of Thorsten's team said this is down to the way DSD works (it doesn't have a reference voltage per se).
  
  
 There is currently no solution under HF-Player and some other software packages.
  
  
 The pop is literally encoded into the audio stream send from the software/device.
  
  
 For JRiver, the solution is to:
  
 1) ENABLE under Audio -> Settings "play silence at startup for hardware synchronisation" to at least 1sec
 2) ENABLE under WASAPI Output mode Settings "Play a little silence on DoP stop"
 3) DISABLE under Track Change "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)"
 4) ENABLE under Track Change Gappless or "Use Gapless for for sequential audio tracks"

  
 Bty, we will forward your comments in this thread to the App developers to lend more weight to our observation of this during playback.
 We find JRiver is quite on the ball with these things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks.


----------



## roamling

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> One of Thorsten's team said this is down to the way DSD works (it doesn't have a reference voltage per se).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thansk for your comments, I will try the settings in Jriver later (I am currently running ifi ASIO instead of ifi WASAPI Output mode, should I change that?)
  
 So in apps like Onkyo HF the loud distortion or pop also happens when I pause a song in the middle somewhere, is that consitent of what Thorstens team said about the nature of DSD files or should it only happen at the beginning of each file?
  
 Unfortunatley the way it is now makes DSD playback from mobile devices like an iPad or an iPhone not viable and redundat for me. Hopefully the JRiver software will be updated so I can use a laptop for streaming DSD instead of my iPad (I will post some pictures of my current setup in the crowd design thread later)


----------



## MLGrado

As far as the pops on DSD are concerned, I rarely if ever get them with JRiver 19 and the Micro, as long as I am using the included iFi ASIO driver.  I get them pretty regularly if I use WASAPI or Kernel.  Of course, YMMV.  
  
 I think this is more than an iFi issue, though.  Seems to be a DSD specific problem.  Actually, one of the things that I found extremely satisfying about the Micro is the lack of noise between tracks compared to the Nano it replaced.  (Although I think this is due to the firmware I was running on the Nano.. couldn't successfully upgrade it)


----------



## MLGrado

> 1) ENABLE under Audio -> Settings "play silence at startup for hardware synchronisation" to at least 1sec
> 2) ENABLE under WASAPI Output mode Settings "Play a little silence on DoP stop"
> 3) DISABLE under Track Change "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)"
> 4) ENABLE under Track Change Gappless or "Use Gapless for for sequential audio tracks"


 
  
 I had NOT done number 1.  This indeed helped with WASAPI and Kernel.  Still, the only foolproof method for me is to use ASIO.  
  
 Thanks, iFi!


----------



## MLGrado

_*I would like to thank iFi for their excellent customer support.*_  
  
 I had a small issue that turned out to be system dependent, and not with the iDSD Micro.  
  
 Thorsten personally looked into this for me, looked at the iDSD on the AP2 tester, saw what the source of the problem might have been, and quickly got back to me.  What other company offers this level of personal support??  None that I can think of.


----------



## roamling

mlgrado said:


> I had NOT done number 1.  This indeed helped with WASAPI and Kernel.  Still, the only foolproof method for me is to use ASIO.
> 
> Thanks, iFi!




do you still get a pop when switching from a dsd track to a pcm track? i do, othwise normal playback within the dsd album works fine now with those settings


----------



## MLGrado

No, I don't.  Not with ASIO.  No noises, clicks, etc regardless of format.  Now if I use any other protocol besides ASIO, yes.  Actually, after using those settings from iFi, my experience with WASAPI or Kernel is just like yours. Still some clicks switching from DSD to PCM.  But ASIO is clean as a whistle.  
  
  
 I have a suspicion that the problem is also dependent on the PC hardware.  So many different hardware solutions and drivers.  
  
  
 EDIT.. also, I am using ASIO native for DSD playback, and NOT DoP.  That may also make a difference.


----------



## MLGrado

earfonia said:


> Nice and concise review, excellent!
> I've been eyeing iDSD micro for a while now... looks like it has the sound signature that suits my preferences.
> Between analytical to musically engaging, where is the iDSD micro position?
> Thanks!


 
  
 Actually, for me it splits between musical and analytical perfectly.  It isn't hyper-detailed, nor is it excessively euphonic.  Rather, a very satisfying level of detail, combined with a musically engaging smoothness and 'warmth'.


----------



## adammax

mlgrado said:


> Actually, for me it splits between musical and analytical perfectly.  It isn't hyper-detailed, nor is it excessively euphonic.  Rather, a very satisfying level of detail, combined with a musically engaging smoothness and 'warmth'.


 
 Have you thought of comparing with Chord Hugo? Its well known for musical sound signature. I wonder if the micro can give the Hugo a run for their money.


----------



## earfonia

mlgrado said:


> Actually, for me it splits between musical and analytical perfectly.  It isn't hyper-detailed, nor is it excessively euphonic.  Rather, a very satisfying level of detail, combined with a musically engaging smoothness and 'warmth'.


 
  
 Thanks! Sounds delicious! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Will try later in local shop.


----------



## Rob N

Those who gave had theirs for a while have you noticed much change during burn in?


----------



## technobear

rob n said:


> Those who gave had theirs for a while have you noticed much change during burn in?




Yes. I tend to use the 3D as this is what I am used to from the iCAN. Without the 3D it does start off a bit shut-in and dark sounding. This is not at all unusual for this type of product. It's cooking nicely. There is definitely something uncommonly nice about the treble. Sounds which were previously reproduced as noise are now revealed to be cymbals (amongst other things)


----------



## ashutoshp

For those not allowed an upgrade from the powers that be, that is my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , is there any way to make the iDSD Nano sound more like the Micro.
    Pardon my naivety but I read somewhere in this thread that the Micro has new analog circuitry compared to a more rudimentary one in the Nano? Can this be bypassed through a dedicated headphone amp like the iCAN?


----------



## KmanChu

technobear said:


> Yes. I tend to use the 3D as this is what I am used to from the iCAN. Without the 3D it does start off a bit shut-in and dark sounding. This is not at all unusual for this type of product. It's cooking nicely. There is definitely something uncommonly nice about the treble. Sounds which were previously reproduced as noise are now revealed to be cymbals (amongst other things)


 
 Bear,
  
 Are you finding that you like the iCAN better than the internal headphone amp? I don't know if it's lack of burn-in but I am finding that I prefer the iCAN vs iDSD direct.


----------



## MLGrado

ashutoshp said:


> For those not allowed an upgrade from the powers that be, that is my wife
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, better analog circuitry that the Nano.  Of course the extra features add cost, but a substantial chunk of the increase in cost is dedicated to power supply and analog components, according to Thorsten L.  
  
 I am going to say that you can't completely get around this limitation of the Nano.  You will always no matter what be using part of its analog signal path.  But, I do think you can improve it by adding the iCan. Actually, I think that would be a very nice upgrade to the Nano.


----------



## MLGrado

rob n said:


> Those who gave had theirs for a while have you noticed much change during burn in?


 
  
 Yeah, I think so.  Seems that the treble, which was already nice and smooth to start with, is opening up even more.  Soundstage is getting bigger, instrumental separation is increasing...


----------



## technobear

kmanchu said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. I tend to use the 3D as this is what I am used to from the iCAN. Without the 3D it does start off a bit shut-in and dark sounding. This is not at all unusual for this type of product. It's cooking nicely. There is definitely something uncommonly nice about the treble. Sounds which were previously reproduced as noise are now revealed to be cymbals (amongst other things)
> ...




At the moment I am keeping the 'phones plugged into the iDSD so as to fully burn it in even though long term I expect to be using the iCAN because I use the crossfeed function (or level one 3D but it's not really 3D) for certain albums that are badly mixed and the two XBASS settings on the iCAN are more useful than the one on the iDSD. Level one XBASS on the iCAN is tailor-made for the T1. Level three XBASS is great for all those 80's pop CDs and some metal CDs that have too little bass. Ideally I would like a headphone amp with proper tone controls but they seem rarer than hens' teeth.

The 3D function is great for movies. On the iCAN I've previously found that 3D works with most of my music but on the iDSD I'm finding I sometimes have to turn it off as it's too much. The iDSD throws a pretty big soundstage anyway so maybe the same will apply when I start using the iCAN again. Then again maybe this will change with further burn-in. 

Soundstage isn't the strongest feature of my Audiolab 8200CDQ but it makes up for it in timing and separation of instruments. It pulls of the trick of allowing you to follow any instrument in a mix whilst never losing the musical whole. It's a toe-tapper par excellence. I guess that's why it won so many awards. The iDSD is getting there. It already passes the_ Dream Theater _test and it has me chair-dancing. 

When using the iCAN, are you using the iDSD in 'direct mode' or 'pre-amp' mode?

I'm currently using it in 'pre-amp' mode as I find the XBASS helps the monitors sound a bit bassier. I'm looking out for a small subwoofer to help them out though so I guess I'll switch to 'direct' mode in the future.


----------



## john57

technobear said:


> . There is definitely something uncommonly nice about the treble. Sounds which were previously reproduced as noise are now revealed to be cymbals (amongst other things)


 
 Cymbals is a good test for high frequency accuracy since it is more of a broadband type of sound.


----------



## KmanChu

technobear said:


> At the moment I am keeping the 'phones plugged into the iDSD so as to fully burn it in even though long term I expect to be using the iCAN because I use the crossfeed function (or level one 3D but it's not really 3D) for certain albums that are badly mixed and the two XBASS settings on the iCAN are more useful than the one on the iDSD. Level one XBASS on the iCAN is tailor-made for the T1. Level three XBASS is great for all those 80's pop CDs and some metal CDs that have too little bass. Ideally I would like a headphone amp with proper tone controls but they seem rarer than hens' teeth.
> 
> The 3D function is great for movies. On the iCAN I've previously found that 3D works with most of my music but on the iDSD I'm finding I sometimes have to turn it off as it's too much. The iDSD throws a pretty big soundstage anyway so maybe the same will apply when I start using the iCAN again. Then again maybe this will change with further burn-in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am using the iDSD in direct mode only so far when running into amps. I have been using the iCAN some but mostly my RWA Cassabria. I do wish they had left it so that the 3D and XBass could be used while still bypassing the volume control. I guess if you run in Eco mode with the volume maxed out then this is essentially what you are doing. I'm finding the iDSD to be really smooth and nice but not as detailed or wide open sounding as my other dac (BMC PureDAC.) It has a very nice and seductive sound though. I am hoping the top end will open up with more hours on it.


----------



## john57

mlgrado said:


> I have a suspicion that the problem is also dependent on the PC hardware.  So many different hardware solutions and drivers.


 
 I agree with this also even the buffer mode can make a difference.


----------



## ieffsmale

john57 said:


> That's been my experience, since they are charging more for the DSD files it better have good mastering to go with it.   I still will buy some CD redbook files since PCM properly done is okay. Looking for the best recording of Arron Copland third Symphony. It is a very inspiring piece and may found it and coming next week.
> 
> Another advantage of the micro is that you do not have to be as concerned about horsepower from slow laptops to do PCM to DSD real time conversion since there will be less need to do this.


 
 John,
  
 If you're still searching for a good recording of Copland's 3rd, you might want to check out the Reference Recordings HDCD #RR-93CD from Eiji Oue and the Minnesota Orchestra.
  
 Tracks:
  
_1. Fanfare for the Common Man 3:32_
  
_2. Appalachian Spring Suite 25:09_
    
    * Third Symphony 43:33*
  
_3. Molto Moderato 10:37_
  
_4. Allegro Molto 8:15_
  
_5. Andantino Quasi Allegretto 10:23_
  
_6. Molto Deliberato 14:16_
  
 Not sure if it's the best, since it is the only version that I own and I haven't compared it to other recordings on the same system.  All I know is that it sounds great to my ears.  I hope this helps.


----------



## john57

ieffsmale said:


> John,
> 
> If you're still searching for a good recording of Copland's 3rd, you might want to check out the Reference Recordings HDCD #RR-93CD from Eiji Oue and the Minnesota Orchestra.
> 
> ...


 
 That is not a bad choice at all. Eiji Oue and the Minnesota Orchestra has the best recorded bass drum in my opinion. It a good piece for testing the bass capabilities and the high frequencies because of the cymbals, on your system. The bass drum should be felt more than heard and should sound sharp as possible. The great news is that this is free if you have Amazon prime so give it a shot just a few minutes long. Copland politically would like to call this piece "fanfare for the common man at income tax time"
  
 For the Third symphony I decided to try the New Zealand version and will compare it when I get it. I wanted the CD version, last one. I will pick a heartfelt reasonable good perforamance over a technical superior performance any day.


----------



## MLGrado

john57 said:


> Cymbals is a good test for high frequency accuracy since it is more of a broadband type of sound.


 
  
  
 Yes, and I agree that the Micro is uncommonly good at the price point when it comes to reproducing cymbals and similar high frequency instruments.


----------



## MLGrado

Todays notes...
  
  
 After several days of listening to the Micro, I put the Nano back in for comparison.  I still own the Nano, and plan to re-purpose it for my mobile use.  
 Anyway, after extolling the Micro as I have, one might expect a great disappointment going back to the Nano.  
  
 Not so much.  The Nano is still an incredible value!  That iFi sound is still there in spades.  Being a native DSD DAC, it still excels with that format!  PCM doesn't have the smoothness and the sparkle of the Micro, but still has a nice, listenable, non-offensive sound.  
  
  
 So those of you with the Nano who aren't ready to go to the Micro, hold onto your Nano!   It is still the next best thing to the Micro.  iFi is in my opinion king of under $500 audio, no matter what side of the bracket you are on...


----------



## ashutoshp

mlgrado said:


> Todays notes...
> 
> 
> After several days of listening to the Micro, I put the Nano back in for comparison.  I still own the Nano, and plan to re-purpose it for my mobile use.
> ...



good to know. Thanks.


----------



## Jobbing

mlgrado said:


> Todays notes...
> ................
> iFi is in my opinion king of under $500 audio, no matter what side of the bracket you are on...




Really? Then how would you compare the amp to the Vorzuge Duo and Pure II ?


----------



## MLGrado

Obviously I am stating an opinion.  I admit I have not heard every product on the market, but I have heard quite a few.  
  
 iFi stands above everything else I have heard at these price points. 
  
 I have not heard the products you mentioned.  What exactly are they?  I can't seem to determine if they are just an amplifier, or if they have digital capability.  If not, then I don't consider them directly comparable to the iFi integrated DAC/Amplifier combo.


----------



## john57

jobbing said:


> Really? Then how would you compare the amp to the Vorzuge Duo and Pure II ?


 
 The one thing going with the Vorzuge Duo is the more complete written specifications as compared to other makes. However it is an amp only device with a maximum voltage swing of 2.7v with a power level  30.63 mW per channel at 32ohms as one example on their page. That means it will not drive my planners at all, not with the strong peaks in my music. It sounds more in tune with sensitive IEM's


----------



## technobear

Dunno what a PURE II is but a VorzAMP Duo is just an amp and costs $520.


----------



## technobear

OK, so a PURE II is also a VorzAMP and it costs $565 and is also just an amp.

So neither of these is comparable to an iDSD. It would be interesting to compare them to an iCAN perhaps.


----------



## Jobbing

You are right, the VorzAmp Duo or Pure are amps, no DAC, should have mentioned that. Actually what I was hoping for is to get a comparison between FiiO X5/VorzAmp combo's and X5(DAC incl.) with iFi Micro as I tried 3 days ago. Is the iFi Micro worth the money pairing with X5 and only use the latter as transport. Thanks!


----------



## maricius

Has anyone with the micro iDSD heard a Cypher Labs Theorem or a CLAS -dB / Duet rig? When I get my iDSD, I'll be comparing it to my Duet which is said to sound very similar to the Pure II in almost all aspects.


----------



## earfonia

maricius said:


> Has anyone with the micro iDSD heard a Cypher Labs Theorem or a CLAS -dB / Duet rig? When I get my iDSD, I'll be comparing it to my Duet which is said to sound very similar to the Pure II in almost all aspects.


 
  
 Thanks!
 I would like to read the comparison as well.


----------



## rickyleelee

technobear said:


> OK, so a PURE II is also a VorzAMP and it costs $565 and is also just an amp.
> 
> So neither of these is comparable to an iDSD. It would be interesting to compare them to an iCAN perhaps.




My German from school is rusty but does Vorz Amp seem unusual? 

Roamling you spoke about german sheep translation?

Someone who has a better grasp of German please correct me.

As Technobear says, the Can is more comparable. On output specs of 3.2v output i think that i agree. Anyone with the nano Can? I dont have either.


----------



## technobear

rickyleelee said:


> My German from school is rusty but does Vorz Amp seem unusual?




The company is called "Vorzüge" which translates to English as "Benefits".

"VorzAMP" is just a made up name.


----------



## rickyleelee




----------



## iFi audio

*How capable is your PC at playing audio?*

  
 Some of you asked us additional questions regarding system checking with the JRMC Benchmark test.

  
 We ran this test on 3 different computers.

 Please refer to the table with comments below:

  

  *Asus i5 Ultrabook laptop*   Core specsWindows Experience Index:i5 CPU @ 1.7GHzCPU 6.98GB of RAMRAM7.4Hybrid HDD/SDD JRMC Benchmark ~900   Plays DSD 256 and can play convert PCM to DSD256if moderate workload, no Photoshop or other resouce hogs    *HP Core-Duo II 2.2Ghz laptop*   Core specsWindows Experience Index:Core Duo II P8400 2.2 GHzCPU 5.94 GB of RAMRAM 5.9Hybrid HDD/SDD JRMC Benchmark ~1,700   Plays DSD 256 and can convert PCM to DSD256 but struggles with evenminimal workload done while playing PCM converted to DSD256    *Desktop - Specially-Built*   Core specsWindows Experience Index:i7 CPU @ 3.5GHzCPU 7.916GB of RAMRAM 7.9SSD only JRMC Benchmark ~4,000   Plays DSD 256 and can convert PCM to DSD with normalWorkload, can use fairly CPU/Memory intensive Applications
  
 From the results:

  
 1) The JRMC Benchmark Test is not the end all and the be all.
  
 2) Also use the Windows Experience test score (aim for 7.0 or above for
 CPU+RAM as other such as graphics are really relevant to audio playback)

  
 To conclude, it would be best to have a Win Experience test of 7.0 or above AND JRMC Benchmark of ~3,000.

  
 But do not lose sleep if the JRMC Benchmark test alone is not ~3,000.

  
 Ultimately, if your audio playback suffers, just take a look at both and they should provide good pointers.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## MLGrado

I ran the benchmark on my custom server built around an overclocked AMD FX 8320 on an ASUS mainboard.  Result was
  
 3221
  
 It is more than capable of converting PCM to DSD256, but I get stuttering converting to DSD512.


----------



## pompon

As stand alone dac (plugged directed to poweramp) how this dac stand ?
  
 Better than 1500$ mytek ?
 Better than Audio-gd M7 2000$ ?
 Better than ps -audio DS 6000$ ?
  
 Why not ? I see people using the nano on a very hi-fi system ... he was using high level dac / preamp and remplaced them with a simple nano! I don't know if he have ears or not ... this is another story! 
  
 I just wait the regular version to be able to buy and have the opportunity to return if it's not compete my actual dac. Friend of mine have the same system I am using and heard the nano and found it very very good. He can't tell if it's better or not to his system because not enough time to listen it. It's was for the nano and it's why I want try the mini ... to make more chances to match / outperform my preamp (battery B1 with premium parts)/dac (yamamoto yda-01 with modifications).
  
 I know now, we can have a very nice dac. My friend have done a little dac under 100$ but direct comparaison with yamamoto he was standing very well but yamamoto was nicer and more refined ... but 80$ vs 2500$ ... humm humm...  it's why I ask something ridiculus like ifi Mini vs perfect stream at 6000$ ... why not ?


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> Just received the micro iDSD this afternoon and gave it a quick listening before committing it to the 24hrs recharging as recommended by iFi - and I am mighty impressed!!! My Xperia Z2 works right off the bat when I connected the OTG cable to micro iDSD. Neutron is singing as beautifully as I can ever hope for. It is pretty much the same level of SQ I have heard from my desktop iDAC + iCAN setup, and that really say something about the micro iDSD pairing with a smartphone.
> 
> Did I mention I am really impressed? I truly am.


 
  
 That's something... oh man... I'm tempted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Two questions if you don't mind:
 1. The coaxial connector for SPDIF works as both electrical and optical SPDIF in and out right?
 What is optical connector for the SPDIF optical?  The normal 3.5 mm SPDIF optical? 
 2. The 3.5 mm input at the front side, this is analog input to use micro as headphone amplifier right?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

earfonia said:


> That's something... oh man... I'm tempted
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. No. Coax is in and out, but optical is only in, not out ( = no optical-out). The same coax (RCA) connector is also for optical. iFi already included an adapter for it, but it is the same kind of adapter that plugs into the 3.5mm jack.
  
 2. Yes.


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> 1. No. Coax is in and out, but optical is only in, not out ( = no optical-out). The same coax (RCA) connector is also for optical. iFi already included an adapter for it, but it is the same kind of adapter that plugs into the 3.5mm jack.
> 
> 2. Yes.




Noted. Thank you very much!


----------



## cvision123

Thanks to Arts Excellence, I received my iFi iDSD micro last Thursday. I've been playing with it for the last couple of days. Coming from Harman/Kardon HD990, M2Tech Young, and DacMagic Plus, I must say I'm really impressed with this DAC. I don't have chance to try it in my speakers setup yet. At the moment, I'm using this DAC/amp combo with my headphones: Beyerdynamic T70p, Sony XBA-H3, and Sennheiser HD800. The source is a MacBook Pro Retina 15" (early 2013) running Audirvana, and a Surface Pro 2 running JRiver. The music is very detailed and natural. It feels like listen to a vinyl setup with added clarity on the top end and the impact at the bottom end.
  
 Thank you iFi for this wonderful product.


----------



## ClieOS

nvm, wrong post.


----------



## maricius

cvision123 said:


> Thanks to Arts Excellence, I received my iFi iDSD micro last Thursday. I've been playing with it for the last couple of days. Coming from Harman/Kardon HD990, M2Tech Young, and DacMagic Plus, I must say I'm really impressed with this DAC. I don't have chance to try it in my speakers setup yet. At the moment, I'm using this DAC/amp combo with my headphones: Beyerdynamic T70p, Sony XBA-H3, and Sennheiser HD800. The source is a MacBook Pro Retina 15" (early 2013) running Audirvana, and a Surface Pro 2 running JRiver. The music is very detailed and natural. It feels like listen to a vinyl setup with added clarity on the top end and the impact at the bottom end.
> 
> Thank you iFi for this wonderful product.




By impressive would you mean comparable to those DACs or better?  At the least, they should compete with the DACmagic Plus. May they perhaps be comparable to those near $2000 DACs/CD Player?


----------



## RadioWonder737

I am using this to Bur-In my Micro iDSD...  I have it in JRiver on Repeat,24/7... Unbelievable bass and huge dynamics!
http://youtu.be/8rGiKv1xkE0


----------



## cvision123

These are my subjective feelings. To me, the music flows naturally. With other DACs everything is very clear and seems to be distinct without much interactions. With the micro, everything is still clear but there is a sense of interaction between the instruments that links them together to form a song.


----------



## MLGrado

cvision123 said:


> These are my subjective feelings. To me, the music flows naturally. With other DACs everything is very clear and seems to be distinct without much interactions. With the micro, everything is still clear but there is a sense of interaction between the instruments that links them together to form a song.


 
  
  
 Welcome to the Abbingdon Music Research/ iFi sound!!  
  
 Smooth, flowing, non-edgy, but yet somehow still full of life and detail!!
  
 It is worth noting that there are a few privileged ones who own the AMR DP-777 DAC, and consider it one of, if not the best sounding DACs available at any price.  iFi offers a nice 'taste' of that sound for not a lot of $$.  Maybe, just maybe, I will have enough pennies in my piggy bank to grab one of those AMR Dacs... until then, iFi will have to do


----------



## MLGrado

pompon said:


> I just wait the regular version to be able to buy and have the opportunity to return if it's not compete my actual dac.
> 
> Friend of mine have the same system I am using and heard the nano and found it very very good.


 
  
  
 The Nano is a very nice sounding little DAC.   I am quick to tell people who can't afford more to just buy the Nano and be done with it.  
  
 The Micro is a very, very special DAC, though.  I think if you buy it, you will be keeping it!


----------



## MLGrado

Today's update...
  
  
 Gosh, this iDSD micro is just in a word "LISTENABLE!"  It is non-fatiguing, and leads to those two and three hour listening sessions where you wonder where the hell all the time went!!  
  
 But don't mistake the above as meaning non-detailed.  While it may not be 'hyper-detailed' I never once feel any lack of actual information.  I think another good word is "BALANCE."  All just seems to be in its proper place.  Instruments sound natural.  Full bodied, rich, AND detailed and nuanced.  
  
  
 Also, if you are into DSD, or have a lot of DSD recordings/SACD rips like I do, a DAC that does native DSD conversion is a MUST.  In my opinion you haven't really heard DSD until you have heard it on a DAC like the iFi iDSD Micro. (or Nano for that matter)
  
 I am currently enjoying Valerie Gergiev conducting the LSO in a beautiful performance of Debussy's La Mer.  This is a native DSD64 recording with minimal or no PCM editing.  And it sounds like I am sitting first row center balcony in the concert hall.


----------



## roamling

mlgrado said:


> Today's update...
> 
> 
> Gosh, this iDSD micro is just in a word "LISTENABLE!"  It is non-fatiguing, and leads to those two and three hour listening sessions where you wonder where the hell all the time went!!
> ...




i am just having on of these 2-3 hours. there is one word "musicality". the sense of music flowing makes you forgett that there is electronics and wires. i have the micro iDSD connected via coax digital cable from my music streamer and then via rca with direct out to my Cyrus amp, love it!


----------



## cvision123

For everyone who is looking into buying this DAC... be careful!!! It just take 3.5 hours of my life listening to music. Time flies . 

It sounds natural and some how makes my HD800 less fatigue for long period listening. The Sony XBA-H3 is famous for the bass and through this DAC/amp the bass seems to be more controlled in such a way that you don't have a single note bass and the coherence with the upper bass and lower midrange. The amp is really good and I think it's really capable of showing the performance of the DAC section. I mentioned the DacMagic Plus in the previous post and I think that the headphone section of ifi is much better.


----------



## BillsonChang007

I find it leans more on the warmer side, and it seem to pair very well with most headphones I throw at it. Does took some time for me to play with the power thought. Vincent emailed me regarding it and I find it extremely helpful! Thanks Vincent @ iFi


----------



## jexby

iFi Audio,
  
 what is the intended behavior of the top LED, when Power Mode has detected there is no incoming digital signal over USB (after 3 minutes?)?
  
 My use case:  connect iPhone to micro iDSD at night, set up a 1hr playlist to doze off to sleep with IEMs.
 in the morning, the micro iDSD LED is blinking green.
  
 so I'm unsure if the micro iDSD is truly going into a hibernate/sleep mode?  or is actually chewing up it's battery all night...
  
 thanks,


----------



## lwells

Has anybody been able to compare this to the Schiit Loki?


----------



## bapspidoff

lwells said:


> Has anybody been able to compare this to the Schiit Loki?




I've had the loki, nano and micro. The nano was significantly better and smoother than the loki. The micro is significantly better than the nano.


----------



## john57

Same here I had all three


----------



## kugino

bapspidoff said:


> I've had the loki, nano and micro. The nano was significantly better and smoother than the loki. The micro is significantly better than the nano.


 

 i've had the nano two different times...and it's a nice unit for the price. but the micro is worlds better. much more detailed, much better soundstage...and the power? geez, i have to listen in IEMatch with my th900 b/c even in eco mode it's too powerful.


----------



## BillsonChang007

kugino said:


> i've had the nano two different times...and it's a nice unit for the price. but the micro is worlds better. much more detailed, much better soundstage...and the power? geez, i have to listen in IEMatch with my th900 b/c even in eco mode it's too powerful.




^ this. It's super duper powerful  iFi is really loaded for HE-6 this time. Wish I have one to pair with mine haha xD


----------



## osiris1

clieos said:


> Just received the micro iDSD this afternoon and gave it a quick listening before committing it to the 24hrs recharging as recommended by iFi - and I am mighty impressed!!! My Xperia Z2 works right off the bat when I connected the OTG cable to micro iDSD. Neutron is singing as beautifully as I can ever hope for. It is pretty much the same level of SQ I have heard from my desktop iDAC + iCAN setup, and that really say something about the micro iDSD pairing with a smartphone.
> 
> Did I mention I am really impressed? I truly am.


 
 hi ClieOS,
  
 where did you get this in Malaysia? or did you get it from SG?


----------



## ClieOS

osiris1 said:


> hi ClieOS,
> 
> where did you get this in Malaysia? or did you get it from SG?


 
  
 Got mine as a review sample. I have reviewed their products in the past.


----------



## osiris1

clieos said:


> Got mine as a review sample. I have reviewed their products in the past.


 
 ok... the only dealer in the is region is in SG, right?


----------



## ClieOS

osiris1 said:


> ok... the only dealer in the is region is in SG, right?


 
  
 If I am not mistaken, Stereo Electronics is the official dealer in SG and MY. Try give them a call and see if they have it in stock or not (number can be found on iFi website). They are also active on forum @ hardwarezone.com.sg.


----------



## osiris1

clieos said:


> If I am not mistaken, Stereo Electronics is the official dealer in SG and MY. Try give them a call and see if they have it in stock or not (number can be found on iFi website). They are also active on hardwarezone.com.sg.


 
 cool. thanks


----------



## Emerpus

osiris1 said:


> ok... the only dealer in the is region is in SG, right?


 
 Or ask them on FB, they are very active on social media - https://www.facebook.com/stereoelectronics


----------



## MLGrado

bapspidoff said:


> I've had the loki, nano and micro. The nano was significantly better and smoother than the loki. The micro is significantly better than the nano.


 
  
  
 Yes, I certainly considered the Loki along with the Nano back in February when i was first in the market for a DSD capable DAC.  Michael L. of Audiostream gave it a great review.  (Of course, he later gave the Nano a glowing endorsement)  
  
 The only thing about the Loki, other than that it is DSD only, is exactly how it converts DSD.  Now, there are lots of opinions on the various DSD conversion methods, but in my opinion, the least amount of DSP leads to the best sound.  Of course, you have Michal at Mytek extolling the virtues of the ESS chipset, which ultimately converts DSD to the same multi-bit Delta Sigma format as everything else that goes into it.  But back to the Loki.  The AKM chipset in it is similar to the ESS in that it ultimately converts DSD into a multi-bit delta sigma format.  
  
 Well, is all that really a big deal though?   Isn't multi-bit delta sigma better than one bit DSD?  Well, yes it is, in my opinion.  The problem is in how you get there.  You can't just magically turn one bit DSD into multi-bit delta sigma.  There is a process, and it is lossy.  The process at least involves digital filtering.  The output of which is a multi-bit format, which may or may not be at the same sample rate as what went in.  Then the multi-bit intermediary (which I am not comfortable naming.  You start using certain designations, and the format wars begin) must be re-modulated via another delta sigma modulator.  So you have a least two delta sigma modulations in the chain, as well as a digital filter, which can and does denigrate the impulse response and can add ringing.  
  
The question we then have to ask is, "Do the benefits gained by converting to Multi-bit Delta Sigma outweigh the losses incurred during the DSP required to get there?"  
  
 My answer is no.  Not in my various listening tests.  Now DSD can sound very, very good after processing, and often does take on somewhat different, if not positive characteristics.  It this were not so, those DAC's that process DSD would be getting panned.  But ultimately I prefer the sound of 'pure' DSD conversion.   For the same reasons, I am not a big fan of DSD 'upsampling' either, like is starting to be included in some boutique products.  The other interesting thing is, the same process is required to simply down-sample DSD!  So if you have the option to buy DSD at multiple rates, the best option will be the original rate.  The same could of course be said for PCM, but that is a different discussion! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 whew!  deep breath time.  All that to say, I am not surprised a couple of you have found the Nano and the Micro to be superior to the Loki.  It in my opinion just comes down to a better implementation.


----------



## blackwolf1006

Any one knows how this perform with an Audeze LCD-X or XC


----------



## maricius

blackwolf1006 said:


> Any one knows how this perform with an Audeze LCD-X or XC


 
  
 It should have no difficulties in the power aspect or in driving those but there have been no words regarding synergy with those headphones yet. If it means anything to you, iFi uses the LCD-2 (I'm unsure which revision), the ones mentioned here post #1127, and other headphones for their tuning. They bring the LCD-2 and the Fostex to shows and to let customers demo their products.


----------



## KmanChu

blackwolf1006 said:


> Any one knows how this perform with an Audeze LCD-X or XC


 
  
 I've got the LCD-3F and it works very nicely with it. It has PLENTY of juice to drive it. It is a really smooth sounding device and should play well with the X.


----------



## roamling

there was one issue with the blue usb cable. on one end the plug was not molded with the cable and is pretty much loose., maybe i have a dud...


----------



## tf1216

Please attach a pic to let us see. The blue cable with mine is very solid.


----------



## BillsonChang007

No USB issue for me. 

The Micro iDSD is supposed to have plenty of power to drive modt headphones. 4k mW are not there for nothing IMO.


----------



## roamling

tf1216 said:


> Please attach a pic to let us see. The blue cable with mine is very solid.




thanks, good to know, i will ask for a replacement cable.


----------



## jexby

Received Otter Box 3000 today, fits the micro IDSD pretty well. Box is a tad longer, so iDSD will move a bit during transport.
Height is a good match.
Box is cushioned internally, has firm snap closures, is very water resistant and shock proof.
Should be a good travel companion instead of the velour bag.


----------



## john57

I keep that in mind. I have Otter Box before to protect some of my more delicate instruments. There just a few small strong boxes available, Otter Box is not all that expensive.


----------



## earfonia

Guys, what do you think of the quality of iDSD Micro headphone amplifier, if it is to be used as a headphone amplifier?
 Thanks!


----------



## BillsonChang007

earfonia said:


> Guys, what do you think of the quality of iDSD Micro headphone amplifier, if it is to be used as a headphone amplifier?
> Thanks!




Will test that soon and will report back for you


----------



## RadioWonder737

Free shipping on USA orders... OtterBox 3000 Cases... Discounts also...
http://www.otterbox.com/otterbox-3000-cases/otterbox-3000-cases,default,sc.html


----------



## nuss

guys slightly off topic but why do you prefer the otter box to peli cases?


----------



## ClieOS

earfonia said:


> Guys, what do you think of the quality of iDSD Micro headphone amplifier, if it is to be used as a headphone amplifier?
> Thanks!


 

  Very clean and transparent, great detail but lean on bass weight. Bass boost helps but it still doesn't hit quite as hard as I like. 3D Holographic sound is great as always. Minus the EQ, it is not the best portable headphone amp I have heard but it is up there with the big boys.


----------



## jexby

I couldn't identify a Peli case in a size similar to Otter 3000 for micro iDSD.
But my other Peli 1050 case for HiFi-M8 was superb and had thicker internal cushion.

Note: 3250 model is too big.
Got exact 3000 model from Amazon via Battery Station.


----------



## ClieOS

On 2nd note, I don't feel the amp section is quite as lean when it works as DAC + amp. I would think the amp section really compliment TI DAC warmish / thicker house sound very well.


----------



## adammax

clieos said:


> Very clean and transparent, great detail but lean on bass weight. Bass boost helps but it still doesn't hit quite as hard as I like. 3D Holographic sound is great as always. Minus the EQ, it is not the best portable headphone amp I have heard but it is up there with the big boys.




Hi clieos. What are the big boys you referring to. Care to share your findings in comparison


----------



## ClieOS

adammax said:


> Hi clieos. What are the big boys you referring to. Care to share your findings in comparison


 
  
 O2, StepDance, E12DIY, etc.


----------



## maricius

clieos said:


> O2, StepDance, E12DIY, etc.


 
  
 How is the soundstage of the amplifier alone relative to these other amps?


----------



## ClieOS

maricius said:


> How is the soundstage of the amplifier alone relative to these other amps?


 
  
 Without the 3D Holographic sound, the soundstage is pretty good, but not great, as the leanness weaken the depth of the image. With 3D Holographic sound, it is a class of its own.


----------



## MLGrado

Hey folks.  
  
 iFi has been kind enough to provide some measurements of the Nano for us.  As you can see, the Nano, in spite of its simpler analog stage and 'single-core' DAC chip, measures very, very well.  
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/does-the-nano-idsd-measure-good-bad-or-ugly/
  
  
 Of course, what does that really mean?  Who decides what measurements are meaningful, furthermore, who decides what represents acceptable performance vs excellent performance?   It seems that some are content to throw out standards of transparency with a rationale of 'Because I said so!'
  
  
 Well, what it means to me is that the Nano sounds quite good, regardless of measurements.  But, if you are into measurements above all else, you should feel quite safe and secure with the Nano.  As a matter of fact, the Nano in both objective and subjective categories swings above its price class. 
  
  
 As I have been saying, if you need a DAC for under $200 (especially if you have a lot of DSD material) get the Nano!  If you can stretch it, things only get better with the Micro!!


----------



## Esprit

> Originally Posted by *pompon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I just wait the regular version


 
 What is "the regular version"? 
 tnx


----------



## BillsonChang007

esprit said:


> What is "the regular version"?
> tnx




I guess he meant non "512 Octa Adopter" edition


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> Very clean and transparent, great detail but lean on bass weight. Bass boost helps but it still doesn't hit quite as hard as I like. 3D Holographic sound is great as always. Minus the EQ, it is not the best portable headphone amp I have heard but it is up there with the big boys.


 
  


clieos said:


> On 2nd note, I don't feel the amp section is quite as lean when it works as DAC + amp. I would think the amp section really compliment TI DAC warmish / thicker house sound very well.


 
  
 Sounds good! Thanks a lot!
 Is that mean if we use iDSD Micro as DAC, the line out sonic character is towards the thick and fat sound character?  Is transparency good on the line out?
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## BillsonChang007

The line out of Micro iDSD, IMO is very clean. He meant the amp's Buit in the iDSD is slightly lean. Pairing with warmer DAC will benefit it. Which I agree 

Correct me if I am wrong thought


----------



## ClieOS

earfonia said:


> Sounds good! Thanks a lot!
> Is that mean if we use iDSD Micro as DAC, the line out sonic character is towards the thick and fat sound character?  Is transparency good on the line out?
> 
> Thanks again!


 

 I really wont describe it as being actually thick and fat (like tube sound) by its own, but it is relatively thicker when compared to iDAC's ESS ES9023 (or ES9018 in a lesser sense). The difference is quite subtle unless you listen to them side by side. One of the things I have always notice between TI and ESS's DAC is that TI always has very good, thicker texture in the mid to lower range where ESS tends to emphasize its upper vocal to treble detail for an airier presentation. This gives ESS a wow factor in the initial listening, but eventually I always get draw back to TI's house sound because it sounds more analog in the long run.


----------



## ashutoshp

clieos said:


> I really wont describe it as being actually thick and fat (like tube sound) by its own, but it is relatively thicker when compared to iDAC's ESS ES9023 (or ES9018 in a lesser sense). The difference is quite subtle unless you listen to them side by side. One of the things I have always notice between TI and ESS's DAC is that TI always has very good, thicker texture in the mid to lower range where ESS tends to emphasize its upper vocal to treble detail for an airier presentation. This gives ESS a wow factor in the initial listening, but eventually I always get draw back to TI's house sound because it sounds more analog in the long run.


. 
Excellent description. In addition to the Nano IDSD, I own the Audioquest Dragonfly which uses an ESS chip and and the reason I got these two was because of their distinct sonic attributes. The best of both worlds is indeed achievable.


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> I really wont describe it as being actually thick and fat (like tube sound) by its own, but it is relatively thicker when compared to iDAC's ESS ES9023 (or ES9018 in a lesser sense). The difference is quite subtle unless you listen to them side by side. One of the things I have always notice between TI and ESS's DAC is that TI always has very good, thicker texture in the mid to lower range where ESS tends to emphasize its upper vocal to treble detail for an airier presentation. This gives ESS a wow factor in the initial listening, but eventually I always get draw back to TI's house sound because it sounds more analog in the long run.




Roughly understand what you mean.

Having used to ESS house sound for about 1.5 years, some implementations are pretty decent. I have some ESS based DACs, Mytek 192-DSD, Yulong DA8, Geek Out 450, Dragonfly, and some Hifimediy DACs. They sound quite differently one another, but they do share a little bit of the spacious and surreal ESS house sound, that sometime may give a bit impression of a kind of hollowness, especially when compared to a good PCM chip based DAC.

The most obvious maybe on Mytek. From what I have, I like the Yulong DA8 the most. And keep coming back to DA8 when i want to listen most musically engaging sound from my setup.

I only have Fiio X5 for modern PCM chip based, and X5 line out quality is pretty good.

Waiting to have a chance to evaluate iDSD Micro


----------



## Esprit

> I guess he meant non "512 Octa Adopter" edition


 
 What is the difference/problem for "return it"?


----------



## BillsonChang007

My favorite pairing so far with the Micro iDSD xD


----------



## roamling

billsonchang007 said:


> My favorite pairing so far with the Micro iDSD xD


 
  
 Nice. I haven’t heard the AKG K702 60th Anniversary Edition yet but I had an AKG K701 in the past which was a bit to analytical for me.


----------



## Esprit

earfonia said:


> The most obvious maybe on Mytek. From what I have, I like the Yulong DA8 the most. And keep coming back to DA8 when i want to listen most musically engaging sound from my setup.


 
 The Mytek is analytical, the Yulong rounder. After months these days I returned to Mytek and I am enjoying it again...
 Is the Micro transparent or forgiving?


----------



## technobear

billsonchang007 said:


> My favorite pairing so far with the Micro iDSD xD




You seem to have the 'Standard' filter engaged there. Try the 'Bit-Perfect' filter


----------



## earfonia

esprit said:


> The Mytek is analytical, the Yulong rounder. After months these days I returned to Mytek and I am enjoying it again...
> Is the Micro transparent or forgiving?


 
  
 Right, especially the headphones output. I'm not a fan of Mytek headphones output, lacking in bass. The Mytek line out is more natural sounding. When paired with good amp, the Mytek is pretty good.
  
  


technobear said:


> You seem to have the 'Standard' filter engaged there. Try the 'Bit-Perfect' filter


 
  
 What differences you hear with different filter settings?


----------



## MLGrado

> What differences you hear with different filter settings?


 
  
  
 Hearing differences in filter settings can be a difficult task, imo.  I think to do so requires sufficiently revealing gear.  Combined with my Grado RS1 headphones, or with my Bowers & Wilkins bookshelves, the iDSD Micro is quite able to reveal differences in filters.  Not so much with my Sennheiser HD558 headphones, which are a quite forgiving and not very revealing headphone.  
  
 That said, the biggest difference to be heard is between 'Standard' and 'Bit-Perfect'.  In standard, well, it sounds more, ahem, digital.  Things with a lot of high frequency content, like cymbals, sound a tick less natural, with a certain 'edge' or 'digital fuzz' that is just characteristic of digital.  In bit perfect, much of this is remedied.  It sounds smoother, more natural, less dirty.  Decays are smooth, not 'noisy'.
  
 It is actually a difficult observation to put into words.  You just have to hear it for yourself to really understand.


----------



## jhwalker

mlgrado said:


> Hearing differences in filter settings can be a difficult task, imo.  I think to do so requires sufficiently revealing gear.  Combined with my Grado RS1 headphones, or with my Bowers & Wilkins bookshelves, the iDSD Micro is quite able to reveal differences in filters.  Not so much with my Sennheiser HD558 headphones, which are a quite forgiving and not very revealing headphone.
> 
> That said, the biggest difference to be heard is between 'Standard' and 'Bit-Perfect'.  In standard, well, it sounds more, ahem, digital.  Things with a lot of high frequency content, like cymbals, sound a tick less natural, with a certain 'edge' or 'digital fuzz' that is just characteristic of digital.  In bit perfect, much of this is remedied.  It sounds smoother, more natural, less dirty.  Decays are smooth, not 'noisy'.
> 
> It is actually a difficult observation to put into words.  You just have to hear it for yourself to really understand.


 

 I hear very large differences in PCM music between "Bit Perfect" and "Minimum Phase", which my is 2nd choice.  Bit Perfect sounds very clear and crisp, while Minimum Phase has a bit of a rolled-off, softer treble profile.  I prefer Bit Perfect, but find some 44/16 music sounds better with the Minimum Phase filter - glad to have both


----------



## ati832

where are you guys buying this amp from as I cannot find it anywhere yet, anyone know how to purchase one in the UK.


----------



## g3act

ati832 said:


> where are you guys buying this amp from as I cannot find it anywhere yet, anyone know how to purchase one in the UK.


 
  
 There are a couple of places.  I got mine from Audiologica, but they also sell them at Mains Cables R Us.
  
 I have been following this thread and the Crowd Designed thread for months, but never contributed.  Felt it was time to join...
  
  
 I love mine.  Got it about 3 days ago from Richard @ Audiologica ( very helpful friendly chap).  A massive step up from my previous Dac/PreAmp/Headphone Amp ( Musical Fidelity M1SDAC)
  
 I could quite easily listen to this for hours and hours and hours without getting listener fatigue, something I cannot say for the MF.  It just sounds so natural and fluid.  I always wondered what people meant when they said "Analogue Sounding" (having never owned a turntable ) but now I do!!!


----------



## JeffDee

Hello all! I'm a big newby to head-fi gear. I own a iBasso dx90 with the Hifiman HE-500. I'm looking to upgrade the dac for even better analog sound. Is the micro a step forward, or a leap forward?
And what about Chord's Hugo? This unit gets all raving reviews?! Does the ifi matches the performance of the Hugo at 1/3 of it's price?


----------



## BillsonChang007

roamling said:


> Nice. I haven’t heard the AKG K702 60th Anniversary Edition yet but I had an AKG K701 in the past which was a bit to analytical for me.




The Annie is not as analytical as them IMO 

As for why am I in standard, I wish to test everything step by step xD IMO, I feel no difference between the polarity


----------



## ati832

Im looking to upgrade to this I currently have the ifi Ican is this idsd really 10 times more powerful its hard to believe that it is or have I got the specs wrong ifi ican 400mw output compared to the idsd 4000mw, can anyone enlighten me.


----------



## BillsonChang007

jeffdee said:


> Hello all! I'm a big newby to head-fi gear. I own a iBasso dx90 with the Hifiman HE-500. I'm looking to upgrade the dac for even better analog sound. Is the micro a step forward, or a leap forward?
> And what about Chord's Hugo? This unit gets all raving reviews?! Does the ifi matches the performance of the Hugo at 1/3 of it's price?



Power wise, yes but I am not sure about the DAC part.



ati832 said:


> Im looking to upgrade to this I currently have the ifi Ican is this idsd really 10 times more powerful its hard to believe that it is or have I got the specs wrong ifi ican 400mw output compared to the idsd 4000mw, can anyone enlighten me.




The iDSD is indeed 4k mW vs iCan's 400mW. The iDSD also features a duo core DAC vs no DAC on iCan. It is more worthy to go for Micro iDSD if you are planning to upgrade both your system's DAC and amp. For purely amp upgrade, there's something else for sure more worthy upgrading.


----------



## WNBC

Some of my previous DACs have been the W4S DAC-2 and Ciunas DAC.  While I could live with either the Ciunas has been my favorite DAC to date so I definitely agree with you about TI vs ESS.  My Micro shows up tomorrow.  Should be fun.
  
  
 Quote:


clieos said:


> I really wont describe it as being actually thick and fat (like tube sound) by its own, but it is relatively thicker when compared to iDAC's ESS ES9023 (or ES9018 in a lesser sense). The difference is quite subtle unless you listen to them side by side. One of the things I have always notice between TI and ESS's DAC is that TI always has very good, thicker texture in the mid to lower range where ESS tends to emphasize its upper vocal to treble detail for an airier presentation. This gives ESS a wow factor in the initial listening, but eventually I always get draw back to TI's house sound because it sounds more analog in the long run.


----------



## maricius

jhwalker said:


> I hear very large differences in PCM music between "Bit Perfect" and "Minimum Phase", which my is 2nd choice.  Bit Perfect sounds very clear and crisp, while Minimum Phase has a bit of a rolled-off, softer treble profile.  I prefer Bit Perfect, but find some 44/16 music sounds better with the Minimum Phase filter - glad to have both




What about your thoughts on "Standard?" Does this have an even greater rolled off treble in your opinion or does it sound harsher? I have thought that the BitPerfect to sound more relaxed than the Minimum Phase as the Minimum Phase would be somewhere in between BitPerfect and Standard.


----------



## technobear

mlgrado said:


> Hearing differences in filter settings can be a difficult task, imo.  I think to do so requires sufficiently revealing gear.  Combined with my Grado RS1 headphones, or with my Bowers & Wilkins bookshelves, the iDSD Micro is quite able to reveal differences in filters.  Not so much with my Sennheiser HD558 headphones, which are a quite forgiving and not very revealing headphone.
> 
> That said, the biggest difference to be heard is between 'Standard' and 'Bit-Perfect'.  In standard, well, it sounds more, ahem, digital.  Things with a lot of high frequency content, like cymbals, sound a tick less natural, with a certain 'edge' or 'digital fuzz' that is just characteristic of digital.  In bit perfect, much of this is remedied.  It sounds smoother, more natural, less dirty.  Decays are smooth, not 'noisy'.
> 
> It is actually a difficult observation to put into words.  You just have to hear it for yourself to really understand.







jhwalker said:


> I hear very large differences in PCM music between "Bit Perfect" and "Minimum Phase", which my is 2nd choice. Bit Perfect sounds very clear and crisp, while Minimum Phase has a bit of a rolled-off, softer treble profile. I prefer Bit Perfect, but find some 44/16 music sounds better with the Minimum Phase filter - glad to have both





I agree with both of these. Thank you gentlemen for saving me the trouble of finding the words 

The Bit Perfect filter sounds the most real. It has the flow and ease and timing of good analogue. It is the filter of choice for most CDs.

The Minimum Phase filter rounds the sound off a little. It's a bit softer, less real but still with great timing and involvement. It is useful if a recording is a bit harsh. For example yesterday I was listening to early U2 which was recorded at home in the front room of a band member. Great music but a bit hard on the ears in places. The Minimum Phase filter just knocks off the rough edge a little. I also played a bunch of Pretty Lights Music albums and they too are great music but quite harsh. I can listen for longer to these with the Minimum Phase filter.

As for the Standard filter, this is exactly what we have been trying to overcome for 35 years. Sure it preserves the high treble but it adds pre-ringing and post-ringing and sounds hard, glassy and unnatural. We used to call this 'digitalitis'. We thought we had cracked it with upsampling/oversampling to ever higher sampling rates but the Bit Perfect filter shows we were on the wrong path.


----------



## maricius

technobear said:


> I agree with both of these. Thank you gentlemen for saving me the trouble of finding the words
> 
> The Bit Perfect filter sounds the most real. It has the flow and ease and timing of good analogue. It is the filter of choice for most CDs.
> 
> ...





MLGrado!! You should put this on your review post!! It will save a lot of curious people in the future from having to enquire regarding the most universally agreed on effects of the three filters. 

Technobear, thanks!!


If there is anyone here who right now hears the filters differently, please chime in.


----------



## john57

jhwalker said:


> I hear very large differences in PCM music between "Bit Perfect" and "Minimum Phase", which my is 2nd choice.  Bit Perfect sounds very clear and crisp, while Minimum Phase has a bit of a rolled-off, softer treble profile.  I prefer Bit Perfect, but find some 44/16 music sounds better with the Minimum Phase filter - glad to have both


 
 The same here. Some of the older PCM recordings sounds better on Minimum Phase. This might be due to poor treble quality like tape noise on some recording. I also find that Minimum Phase is more "quiet" or a darker background in some cases. That seems to be depend on what  playback software is being used. I am finding this out and checking on the repeatability on the results on various software . This is going to take some time.  I have to rebuilt my music library since some trial software like Music Bee made a mess.  I have to revert all the changes the software made and to the system. I always make a total system image before checking out new software.
  
 I do find that the phase switch setting is subtle from what I am hearing, but still in the early stages of evaluating.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Anyone free to recommend me some software to play FLAC on Mac? My Window is sadly back to operation room :/ fan died


----------



## Esprit

Vox, Audirvana Plus, Pure Music, etc... and HQPLayer If you want "convert on the fly" all your music to DSD (I'm doing this with Mytek and Yulong, waiting to decide whether to buy the Micro...).


----------



## BillsonChang007

Which is smoother, faster and lighter? Thanks!


----------



## maricius

billsonchang007 said:


> Which is smoother, faster and lighter? Thanks!


 
  
 I have Audirvana Plus and I love the option for iTunes integration and also the simple and direct drag, drop, and play playlist when not integrated with iTunes.


----------



## RadioWonder737

ati832 said:


> where are you guys buying this amp from as I cannot find it anywhere yet, anyone know how to purchase one in the UK.


 

 [size=xx-small]These are the Official iFi Audio UK Dealers...[/size]
[size=xx-small]http://ifi-audio.com/sales/#unitedkingdom [/size]


----------



## nuss

Walrus systems in london apparently have some in! (if you're looking in the UK)


----------



## RadioWonder737

nuss said:


> Walrus systems in london apparently have some in! (if you're looking in the UK)


 
 Thanks,"nuss",did you phone them to confirm?


----------



## nuss

radiowonder737 said:


> Thanks,"nuss",did you phone them to confirm?


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 They emailed me at the end of last week to say they have them in stock.  I was going to pop in yesterday but didn't get a chance.  They were very helpful!


----------



## MLGrado

As far as filters are concerned, yes, there indeed is a slight treble roll-off in Min. Phase.  
  
 I expected this in Bitperfect, but honestly I had not played around much with Min. Phase, and when I was doing listening tests, I was listening for other characteristics than frequency response.  
  
 But I do hear it, yes.  Standard is the the most bright and brilliant.  But at the expense of some 'digit-itis'.
  
  
 I also want to note for anyone considering this product, that the standard filter setting and any perceived weaknesses associated with it has nothing to do with iFi's implementation at all, other than the fact that they offer the option to use it.  
  
 What I mean is, the standard filter and its 'ringing' is something standard for all of Hi-fi, not just i-Fi!  
  
 It seems every hi-fi company truly interested in maximum fidelity has some kind of 'solution' to the standard filter problem.  iFi's choice is the non-oversampling BitPerfect mode, followed by Min. Phase.


----------



## MLGrado

speaking of stock, if you live in the US of A and want an iDSD micro, I spoke to Avatar Acoustics just a couple days ago about buying a second iDSD Micro to be used in my main hi-fi.  Yes, that is how much I like this thing!  
  
 They still have some stock of the Octa special editions, but are out of T-shirts.  If you want the hardware, but are okay waiting on a t-shirt, give them a call!


----------



## Peter75

I'm one lucky Octa-adopter Idsd is fantastic product


----------



## Peter75

Idsd micro along with ilink one happy family


----------



## roamling

mlgrado said:


> speaking of stock, if you live in the US of A and want an iDSD micro, I spoke to Avatar Acoustics just a couple days ago about buying a second iDSD Micro to be used in my main hi-fi.  Yes, that is how much I like this thing!
> 
> They still have some stock of the Octa special editions, but are out of T-shirts.  If you want the hardware, but are okay waiting on a t-shirt, give them a call!




I am using the micro IDSD in my HiFi right now, I have it connected to my streamer via a coax digital cable. the micro is set to fixed direct RCA out and feeds into a Cyrus 8x amp. the sound is organic, effortless and just right. I Am usually not getting to excited about things, but right now i am. i have spend (wasted) years on listening to digital sound that was just not right, to bright and fatiguing ... this is good, really good i just stopped worrying about my rather "cheap" set of KEF Q500 speakers, they sound great now, the way they should be.

PS: i find the 3D setting in speaker mode useful. it works depending on what recording your listening to, its very subtle and does not change the characteristic of the recording but really sets up the image of the recorded sound nicely, right now listening to Charlie Haden "The Private Collection" with 3D on


----------



## john57

Hey do not put down your Kef's! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Almost brought a pair of Kef speakers a while back. I do find that the3D in speaker mode more useful than in headphone mode.


----------



## roamling

john57 said:


> Hey do not put down your Kef's!    Almost brought a pair of Kef speakers a while back. I do find that the3D in speaker mode more useful than in headphone mode.




 i had a micro iCan a while ago, with 2 levels of 3D. i did not use it a lot , and it was confusing, more 3D... less 3D, not my kind of thing, but with on/off on the iDSD works for me. the ears can decide what sounds best, and listening to music is highly subjective anyway


----------



## KmanChu

My micro iDSD is currently doing battle with my other two much more expensive DACs for supremacy in my desktop system. For comparisons I'm using the direct-mode with no headphone plugged into the headphone jack. Its got an ifi iUSB Power->Gemini-> iDSD->RCAs->amp. The iDSD is holding its own and it actually wins with DSD material. The iDSD does absolutely nothing wrong. Its sins are those of omission, the only possible criticism so far is that might be a bit too polite. But still, has a very natural sound that is intriguing. I will plan for the mini iDSD which will hopefully have a form factor allowing far more connectivity. Still, the micro iDSD is really brilliant as a dedicated DAC.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you compare the Micro to your NAD M51, with PCM?
Thanks.


----------



## jexby

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you compare the Micro to your [COLOR=6A6A6A]NAD M51, with PCM?[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=6A6A6A]Thanks.[/COLOR]




Dude will you ever post something besides a request to "compare A to B", in any thread here?
#tiresome


----------



## earfonia

mlgrado said:


> Hearing differences in filter settings can be a difficult task, imo.  I think to do so requires sufficiently revealing gear.  Combined with my Grado RS1 headphones, or with my Bowers & Wilkins bookshelves, the iDSD Micro is quite able to reveal differences in filters.  Not so much with my Sennheiser HD558 headphones, which are a quite forgiving and not very revealing headphone.
> 
> That said, the biggest difference to be heard is between 'Standard' and 'Bit-Perfect'.  In standard, well, it sounds more, ahem, digital.  Things with a lot of high frequency content, like cymbals, sound a tick less natural, with a certain 'edge' or 'digital fuzz' that is just characteristic of digital.  In bit perfect, much of this is remedied.  It sounds smoother, more natural, less dirty.  Decays are smooth, not 'noisy'.
> 
> It is actually a difficult observation to put into words.  You just have to hear it for yourself to really understand.


 
  
 Thanks!
 Somehow the naming for those filters are not common, and I can't seem to find the technical explanation for those filters.
  
 Really appreciate if ifi could give use some technical explanation for those filters.


----------



## sonixen

earfonia said:


> Thanks!
> Somehow the naming for those filters are not common, and I can't seem to find the technical explanation for those filters.
> 
> Really appreciate if ifi could give use some technical explanation for those filters.


 
  
 This should help a bit. Gives a bit of background to the minimum phase and bit perfect filter.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119/1050#post_10662147


----------



## sonixen

Like all the impressions with speakers. Keep em coming guys.
  
 Quote:


john57 said:


> Hey do not put down your Kef's!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well from all the good feedback here... one cannot help but wonder what the micro idsd does for your jbl lsr3xx. Does it strengthen it's midfield performance, widen the sweet "area" etc?


----------



## earfonia

sonixen said:


> This should help a bit. Gives a bit of background to the minimum phase and bit perfect filter.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119/1050#post_10662147


 
  
 Thanks a lot for the link!




  
 Still, it is not a very technical explanation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe the technical info is confidential.


----------



## john57

Slightly more info on two of the digital filter as shown for the nano.
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/does-the-nano-idsd-measure-good-bad-or-ugly/


----------



## pearljam50000

jexby said:


> Dude will you ever post something besides a request to "compare A to B", in any thread here?
> #tiresome



OK,i'm going to shut up now...


----------



## RadioWonder737

Having so much fun with this!  





    I think I will download more MP3 albums... Just look for the Magenta (DSD256/512) light on nano/micro iDSD...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119/1380#post_10714034


----------



## youkeum

Has anyone have a problem like me?
  
 I got the micro idsd. When play a DSD file, sometimes it makes a pop noise. the ifi's led turn to yellow, and return cyan.
  
 I don't know when the noise appear, but it appears only DSD. 
  
 I use a iMac > audirvana > micro idsd.
  
 Is it a audirvana setting problem? or just my iMac problem..?


----------



## john57

You getting the pop because it is changing from PCM to DSD.  This does not always happen and can vary depending on the software and hardware. I noticed that audirvana tries to fix the popping noise from version * 1.5.8*


----------



## roamling

john57 said:


> You getting the pop because it is changing from PCM to DSD.  This does not always happen and can vary depending on the software and hardware. I noticed that audirvana tries to fix the popping noise from version * 1.5.8*


 
  
 I also get the pop when playing files from the Onkyo HF Player on iPad, even when changing from one DSD song to the next or pausing and restarting a song (when the album plays through the tracks itself i only get the pop at the beginning of the first song).
 I think the problem is that the software loses synch with the DSD file. I hope software like the Onkyo HF Player will catch up with that.
  
 Right now I have to mute my system before I press play because the pop is quiet loud.


----------



## youkeum

Yeah, the problem is that pop noise appears during the playing. I don't know why does change dsd>pcm>dad. 
  
 I use ver. 1.5.12.  I think it is my iMac problem.. I changed a setting and it disappeared until now.


----------



## MLGrado

youkeum said:


> Yeah, the problem is that pop noise appears during the playing. I don't know why does change dsd>pcm>dad.
> 
> I use ver. 1.5.12.  I think it is my iMac problem.. I changed a setting and it disappeared until now.


 
  
  
 This.  
  
  
  
 So much of the issue with pops and ticks is system dependent.  It can vary with hardware and software.  Even a tiny setting change that may not have seemed so obvious at first may be the answer.  I am using the latest Jriver on Windows 7, and different configs yield notable variations in the results.  
  
  
  
 An interesting observation for me is that when using headphones, the tick or click when changing rates or formats is of so little amplitude it is virtually non-existent.  I just added a pair of B&W 686 s2 bookshelf speakers to my desktop setup (total impulse buy) and the pops and clicks in this case are more notable.  I can think of no reason why this should be the case, other than the gain added in my outboard amp.  But as I listen at similar levels whether I use headphones or speakers, it seems that the ratio should scale equally.  I am not any kind of expert in amplifiers, though.  Perhaps this is due to a serious non-linearity?  After all, it is at this point an el-cheapo Behringer amp.  
  
  
 All of that said, I know iFi uses a muting circuit to prevent these kind of things.  Also, I believe the latest firmware from a couple months ago went a long way towards fixing these popping issues on the hardware side.  iFi is very proactive about these things, but since ( I believe ) the issue with DSD file changes is indeed rooted in the bitstream itself, and will vary depending on the particular software you use, iFi can only do so much on the hardware end, while keeping DSD in its native bitstream.


----------



## john57

I also wanted to add that with J.River added a play a short silent when using DoP stop option when using the WASAPI driver as an example. If you are getting a pop during the middle of a song that's a different matter.


----------



## lakai

hello,
  
 i think i'll share my thoughts.
  
 the nano was my first foray into computer music. i got it simply for its dsd capability. and it surprised me with its sound performance more than i expected. as excellent as the nano is, by itself alone, i was attracted to the idea of complimenting it with the i tube, for the same reason folks own the itube.
  
 now i also have the micro idsd.
  
 my first listens on the nano and the micro are the more memorable impressions. on the nano, i was  on the edge of my seat, and sighed as if to help it go higher.... and higher and sweeter it did  ....wow. The micro - it was on power mode, immediately, at past 9 o’clock with a big full sound, the instruments tonally distinct and separated in space from each other that was revealing of acoustic clues to the playing place. The micro, being physically bigger than its brother nano performed also sonically bigger, in my speaker set up.
  
 So I played the micro with my redbooks upsampled to dsd, ( redbook layers of my sacd and some redbooks from windham-hill, telarc, etc.), as I did with the nano going all the way to dsd 512, in my old computer, dual core, 1 gig ram, serving as my evaluation unit to what impact computer music, for better or worse.
  
 Using foobar and its sacd plug-in, I could upsample to dsd 512 and playback on the micro. ..the nano  to dsd128 . Using foo-asio, I limit myself to using SDM type B(FB32) than SDM type D (FB32), as it is slightly better SQ to my ears, the 3 or 4 % difference on cpu load could be the reason. The other 4 SDM types present a load twice at 40 % with corresponding poorer SQ. I also disable ‘Windows Search’ on ‘Services’ as it kicks in every now and then with a momentary 40% load to cpu on top of what the asio is using with audible impact on SQ, in fact, very distorted, specially on the 4 SDMs. Something I mistook  the USB port and cable then for the deteriorating SQ.
  
 So the redline for good SQ in my system is 40% of asio load on cpu (dsd256- 40% , dsd512 - 50%) which led me play PCM natively - like native DSD -  is at 15%. And that was the biggest surprise, ironically, ending up being my own reference against which, my DSD upsampling were compared.
  
 There is something to redbook playback on the Micro (using ifi asio) on my earphone – a seeming ease of flow of musical notes and voices that is so appealingly relaxing to me. There is the rich sparkle to piano sound and other instruments and voice that, in comparison, each step of dsd upsampling seems cleaner, but on closer look loses those sparkle in direct proportion the higher it goes. Now it makes me wonder whether a higher speed quadcore with at least4 gig of RAM and SSD, say, at 25% load to CPU for DSD 256,512 would do wonders. DSD 128 and 256 upsampling are enjoyable, tho, in my system. The downside is not really so apparent unless exerting effort. In my case, a conscious effort not to fall asleep instead, as I immersed into critical listening.
  
  Music, to me, being ethereal and fleeting, hard to assess, is a subjective matter left to individual taste  unless  some finer gears come along to point out the finer things of music. My old experience on redbook was that of a ghost – a disemboweled spirit that rather disturbed my peace and soul –if I may describe my anxiety after a session of listening. After a hiatus of five years, when my SACD players died on me, the nano revived my interest in music. Its very sound alone then, made me look forward to owning its bigger brother, the micro. As excellent  the nano is, and enjoyable in all my listening sessions - if I may compare its magic to a beautiful apparition, the micro on  the other hand   ........in spite of the original sin – addition, subtraction in the mastering ....works wonder to reconcile  body and soul for the music  reincarnation around my speakers...  and at this early stage  this makes me look forward, wondering also, to what forthcoming little miracle could the Mini iDSD be performing....meanwhile there are many hours yet of enjoyable listening on weekends to fully burn-in the micro....and learn more of it.


----------



## deanorthk

Reading all that, I do wonder if I shouldn't put the micro Idsd on my short list, after buying the WA6 SE, to act as a dac for the WA6SE for the PS1000, it's indeed worth the thought


----------



## ogeray01

I'm about to order iFi Micro iDSD based on all the positive reviews / discussions here. However, I travel around the globe quite a bit and wanted to check with you whether I'd have issues using it in countries with AC 110 volts and also 220 volts. From my understanding, this is irrelevant but I wanted to verify with the forum here. And if it is irrelevant, is there a difference buying it in US versus UK for example (are they selling the exact same item)?
  
 Thank you all in advance.


----------



## Emerpus

ogeray01 said:


> I'm about to order iFi Micro iDSD based on all the positive reviews / discussions here. However, I travel around the globe quite a bit and wanted to check with you whether I'd have issues using it in countries with AC 110 volts and also 220 volts. From my understanding, this is irrelevant but I wanted to verify with the forum here. And if it is irrelevant, is there a difference buying it in US versus UK for example (are they selling the exact same item)?
> 
> Thank you all in advance.


 
 Well ... the micro iDSD charges via USB so you will just need a universal usb wall charger to charge it 
  
 I use a charger such as https://www.myinnergie.com/productdetail.php?productid=240
  
 But your regular Apple/Samsung mobile phone wall charger would do fine too.


----------



## RadioWonder737

ogeray01 said:


> I'm about to order iFi Micro iDSD based on all the positive reviews / discussions here. However, I travel around the globe quite a bit and wanted to check with you whether I'd have issues using it in countries with AC 110 volts and also 220 volts. From my understanding, this is irrelevant but I wanted to verify with the forum here. And if it is irrelevant, is there a difference buying it in US versus UK for example (are they selling the exact same item)?
> 
> Thank you all in advance.


 

Also if you bring your Computer with you on these World Travels,you can charge by the USB Port (or USB 3 Port)... Yes,all Micro iDSD units are the same because of the way they charge the Battery...


----------



## U2nite

maricius said:


> I have Audirvana Plus and I love the option for iTunes integration and also the simple and direct drag, drop, and play playlist when not integrated with iTunes.


 
  
 +1. I use Audirvana Plus and I like the iTunes integration. Most of the time I just drag files and play. Works with most types of music files including FLAC, SACD ISO.


----------



## U2nite

lakai said:


> ...
> 
> Music, to me, being ethereal and fleeting, hard to assess, is a subjective matter left to individual taste  unless  some finer gears come along to point out the finer things of music. My old experience on redbook was that of a ghost – a disemboweled spirit that rather disturbed my peace and soul –if I may describe my anxiety after a session of listening. After a hiatus of five years, when my SACD players died on me, the nano revived my interest in music. Its very sound alone then, made me look forward to owning its bigger brother, the micro. As excellent  the nano is, and enjoyable in all my listening sessions - if I may compare its magic to a beautiful apparition, the micro on  the other hand   ........in spite of the original sin – addition, subtraction in the mastering ....works wonder to reconcile  body and soul for the music  reincarnation around my speakers...  and at this early stage  this makes me look forward, wondering also, to what forthcoming little miracle could the Mini iDSD be performing....meanwhile there are many hours yet of enjoyable listening on weekends to fully burn-in the micro....and learn more of it.


 
  
 Hi Lakai,
  
 Glad to hear you have many hours enjoying the music, as I am.   Yes indeed the sound of the iDSD Micro is already a little miracle, can't imagine what the Mini iDSD will bring.
  
 We get to enjoy wonderful music while we wait.


----------



## MLGrado

Folks, (yes I am legit all Southern USA, so I reserve the right to use the colloquialism,  )
  
  
 My my oh my.  The computer audio world is full of landmines.  Specifically, NOISE.  Switching mode power supplies, internal PC power supplies, dubious internal shielding and isolation, etc. etc, etc.
 But today was not another exercise in futility.  I have had a very, very slight amount of EMI noise coming through my speakers.  Have been spending hours trying to track it down.  After re-arranging my various switched mode power supplies, placing components on different surge protectors, and using a few (hopefully safe enough) ground lifts, I killed it.  The noise, that is.  
  
 Now what does this have to do with iFi?  A LOT, let me tell you.  In trying to nail this thing down, I took the iUSB Power out of the signal chain.  My, my oh my.  What a mess of noise that was!  iUSB back in, the noise drops to something you can only hear within a foot or so of the speaker.  The thing really works!  But being a perfectionist, I knew I could do even better.  So now, you can only hear a slight hiss when you put your ear right on the tweeter.  Just as it should be, that is, at least with the particular amp I am using.  
  
  
 Will the iFi iUSB help you?  Very well it could.  It performs exactly as specified in my noisy system.  Highly recommended product.  
  
 iFi.  Inexpensive audio that continues to impress.....


----------



## RadioWonder737

[size=medium]I use these 3M Brand EMI/RFI Absorbers... Comes in different varieties and thicknesses... Easy to put on and remove... Cut to size and set in place...[/size]
  
http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/en/emirfi-absorbers/52080


----------



## Somphon

youkeum said:


> Yeah, the problem is that pop noise appears during the playing. I don't know why does change dsd>pcm>dad.
> 
> I use ver. 1.5.12.  I think it is my iMac problem.. I changed a setting and it disappeared until now.


 
 What settings are you using? I'm on MacBook Pro Retina late 2012 > Audirvana + 1.5.10 (DSD over PCM Standard setting) > idi Micro iDSD. 
 It pops every hi-res track on every album.


----------



## semeniub

Just opened the box for my micro iDSD this morning and can't wait for the 1st charging to finish. I recently tried a TotalDAC D1 usb cable with the nano iDSD that gave some impressive sonic fireworks - wondering how it will be with the micro iDSD.


----------



## iFi audio

jexby said:


> iFi Audio,
> 
> 
> what is the intended behavior of the top LED, when Power Mode has detected there is no incoming digital signal over USB (after 3 minutes?)?
> ...


 

 Hi,

  
 Blinking green with iPhone attached = sleeping and NOT charging.

  
 However in this state the iDSD micro will keep the USB alive (it must do so under USB standards while connected), so around 150mA will be consumed, 10 hours in this state will consume appx 30% of the battery charge.
  
 Too many combinations - such a small device and all that.


----------



## semeniub

Charged up now - playing with the TotalDAC D1 usb cable and Audeze LCD2's... it's like magic! Will have to make sure too much time isn't "lost" exploring the music collection today.


----------



## earfonia

In the next 2-3 years when the internal battery life span is over, how to replace the battery?  Does iFi sell the spare replacement battery?


----------



## nuss

mlgrado said:


> Folks, (yes I am legit all Southern USA, so I reserve the right to use the colloquialism,  )
> 
> 
> My my oh my.  The computer audio world is full of landmines.  Specifically, NOISE.  Switching mode power supplies, internal PC power supplies, dubious internal shielding and isolation, etc. etc, etc.
> ...


 
 do you have any picks of your rig or stack?  quite interested to see how its all connected and arranged!


----------



## youkeum

somphon said:


> What settings are you using? I'm on MacBook Pro Retina late 2012 > Audirvana + 1.5.10 (DSD over PCM Standard setting) > idi Micro iDSD.
> It pops every hi-res track on every album.




i'm on imac 2009 , audirvana 1.5.12, and same as you. do you have a problem during the playing?


----------



## Somphon

I get loud 'Pop' sounds before new tracks, esp with DSD. 
  
 Very annoying and take away the joy of listening.
  
 How to fix this pop?


----------



## surja

Can anyone comment on the battery runtime?


----------



## Bugdozer

So where do you buy this thing?  I found only one seller on the iFi list, Music Direct, but they have it listed for $499.  That seems excessive as I saw a listing for $189 but none in stock.


----------



## john57

bugdozer said:


> So where do you buy this thing?  I found only one seller on the iFi list, Music Direct, but they have it listed for $499.  That seems excessive as I saw a listing for $189 but none in stock.


 
  There are two iDSD DAC's the nano at $189 and the micro at $499


----------



## ClieOS

bugdozer said:


> So where do you buy this thing?  I found only one seller on the iFi list, Music Direct, but they have it listed for $499.  That seems excessive as I saw a listing for $189 but none in stock.


 
  
 $499 is the MSRP.
  
 You must have mistaken the nano iDSD (MSRP $189) as micro iDSD.


----------



## MLGrado

somphon said:


> I get loud 'Pop' sounds before new tracks, esp with DSD.
> 
> Very annoying and take away the joy of listening.
> 
> How to fix this pop?


 
  
 this is an issue with DSD bitstream.  Mostly software related, as in, not totally a DAC issue.  
  
 In my system, pops and ticks are very rare, and pretty quiet when they do happen.
  
  
 Earlier in this thread iFi posted some other things to try to help eliminate it.  
  
  
 Pops and ticks at the beginning and end of DSD tracks are also a problem in the professional world.  Even the multi thousand dollar Pyramix DSD recording and editing system, that is the standard these days for the best DSD recording, has issues with pops and ticks in editing situations.  For an example, download any DSD download from Channel Classics.  You will hear a pop at the beginning and end of each track.  This can be very annoying, especially if you are listening to gapless recordings!
  
 But, it is simply a DSD software issue.  Similar problem for 50,000 dollar workstations and for a 500 dollar consumer DAC.  
  
 Now, if you want to use signal processing on the bitstream, as many 'native DSD' Dacs do, you can eliminate this.  But, you also turned the DSD signal into something that is no longer DSD, strictly speaking.  And this is one of the ways of doing things.  
  
 But, I prefer the iFi approach.  Minimal processing = best sound.  Be it DSD or PCM.


----------



## chawya22

bugdozer said:


> So where do you buy this thing?  I found only one seller on the iFi list, Music Direct, but they have it listed for $499.  That seems excessive as I saw a listing for $189 but none in stock.


 
 You may want to try Essential Audio (listed on ifi's site ). That's where I bought one of three that he had just received the day I called, a week and a half ago. Free shipping and no tax.


----------



## WNBC

After listening to the iDSD Micro for one evening I have one word to say: * impressed*.  No mental burn-in required.  We all have equipment that we grow to appreciate over time.  This Micro I liked right away.  $499 and I don't feel I overpaid at all.  It's worth it and more.  
  
 I had the Nano iDSD and it was ok, but I had no problem letting it go.  This Micro is a keeper for me.  Reminds me of one of my favorite DACs, the JKenny Ciunas.  Smooth and non-fatiguing, but I never feel there is a lack of details.  No digital harshness.  Listened to some Coheed and Cambria last night.  The Micro easily handled all the dynamics this group can throw at you.      
  
 Going from some expensive home rigs to mid-fi portable rigs and now back to semi-portable I do feel I'm in the right place.  Sure, I could spend more but I am getting so much out of this Micro and it's small footprint is a plus.  I now have to think about headphone pairings.  Not quite ready to spend mucho dinero again on the HD800s, LCD-2s, etc.  I had the Alpha Dog before and TH600 in the past and I think they might pair well with the Micro.  I feel my own self-modded T50RPs are sounding great with the Micro.  Which brings up another point, the T50RPs don't always sound good with all amps.  With some amps they can sound flat and boring.  With the Micro the T50RP has come alive.  The power of the Micro is at work here.  Lots of air, detail, and sweet mids.  If this is my barometer then oh man the Micro has a lot of headphone possibilities to explore.  I'm really leaning towards HE-400i or Grados.     
  
 Congrats iFi, the Micro is pretty cool.   I have yet to explore most of its features.  Last night was straight computer use via Amarra.  I'm itching to try my CD transport into it as well input from my tablet.  I still have to try DSD on it as well.  I do spoil my Micro with a Vaunix Lab Brick USB hub, but I'll be curious to read other tweaks (cables, etc.) people are using to extract even more out of it.


----------



## john57

wnbc said:


> I feel my own self-modded T50RPs are sounding great with the Micro.  Which brings up another point, the T50RPs don't always sound good with all amps.  With some amps they can sound flat and boring.  With the Micro the T50RP has come alive.  The power of the Micro is at work here.  Lots of air, detail, and sweet mids.  If this is my barometer then oh man the Micro has a lot of headphone possibilities to explore.


 
 I had many amps that I have used for headphones in the past until now my T50RP has come alive in a big way like yours.


----------



## WNBC

Yeah, I even thought to myself maybe I can get by with just the T50RPs alone for a while.  Lets see, how many times have we said that to ourselves and then the next day a HD800 shows up at your door 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
  
 Quote:


john57 said:


> I had many amps that I have used for headphones in the past until now my T50RP has come alive in a big way like yours.


----------



## wisnon

Anyone compare this to the Chord Hugo?
  
 Obvious parallel products.


----------



## KmanChu

wisnon said:


> Anyone compare this to the Chord Hugo?
> 
> Obvious parallel products.


 
  
 I guess they are parallel, but they are in a lot of ways opposite, one of the iFi reps themselves said on the other micro iDSD thread that the iFi/AMR house sound is about as opposite of the Chord sound as you can go. The philosophical approaches are also polar opposite: no/minimal DSP and native playback vs heavy duty FPGA DSP prior to conversion. The iFi isn't cheap at $500, but it's less than a quarter of the Hugo's price. I don't think they are really comparable in any way except form factor.


----------



## john57

wisnon said:


> Anyone compare this to the Chord Hugo?
> 
> Obvious parallel products.


 
 From my point of view the only advantage I see for the Chord Hugo is that it is a bit smaller than the micro but it is 5 times the price! Too much much risk to carry the Chord Hugo on a daily base. It makes more sense for me to use the NANO for the daily portable use and the micro more or less at home with the main system and still save a lot of money. At this SQ level it more of a personal taste than what is better.


----------



## roamling

mlgrado said:


> this is an issue with DSD bitstream.  Mostly software related, as in, not totally a DAC issue.
> 
> In my system, pops and ticks are very rare, and pretty quiet when they do happen.
> 
> ...




it is simple as you say, no matter if its a 50k system or a 500 dollars one, there is a slight minor pop at the beginning of each file. the brain will adjust to it when listening, but its simply a flaw of spliting the dsd image into multiple tracks. if dsd wants to survive the industry needs to come up with some great idea. i can remember sitting at the "High End" trade show, at the time in Frankfurt some 15 + years ago listening to the first Sony SACD player... i thought wow that sounds good, but sacd never went off for some wired reasons... dont make the same mistake again


----------



## BillsonChang007

surja said:


> Can anyone comment on the battery runtime?



It is premium strong! You can recharge your phone for 2-3 times with full charge. I have been using them for over a week everyday, still have yet to see red lights (indicating battery low) but I do sometimes uses USB power instead. According to iFi, the battery can last more than 14 hours on Eco mode. If anything,they take time to charge 



kmanchu said:


> I guess they are parallel, but they are in a lot of ways opposite, one of the iFi reps themselves said on the other micro iDSD thread that the iFi/AMR house sound is about as opposite of the Chord sound as you can go. The philosophical approaches are also polar opposite: no/minimal DSP and native playback vs heavy duty FPGA DSP prior to conversion. The iFi isn't cheap at $500, but it's less than a quarter of the Hugo's price. I don't think they are really comparable in any way except form factor.




I don't see the need of spending so much on portable rig IMO I find myself crazy to use the Micro iDSD for portable xD


----------



## wisnon

kmanchu said:


> I guess they are parallel, but they are in a lot of ways opposite, one of the iFi reps themselves said on the other micro iDSD thread that the iFi/AMR house sound is about as opposite of the Chord sound as you can go. The philosophical approaches are also polar opposite: no/minimal DSP and native playback vs heavy duty FPGA DSP prior to conversion. The iFi isn't cheap at $500, but it's less than a quarter of the Hugo's price. I don't think they are really comparable in any way except form factor.


 
 Well, they are both headphone Dacs with amps and they both play PCM and DSD. To me the comparison is self insistent.
  
 Also, they are about the same total size.
  
 There are many ways to skin a cat, I am asking for opinions on how the result of the skinning appeals to people who have compared both directly. People in the market for portable HeadDacAmps should rightly do some kind of due diligence here.


----------



## john57

I do not hear any pop going between tracks or switching sample rates. I only getting a pop when I do a full stop on a DSD file or from the iDSD switching from standby. Not using DoP for DSD helps.
  
 By the way J.River fix the issues I was having with PCM converted DSD to native DSD playback. Latest version is 19.0.163 which is stable for use. The previous stable version was 19.0.146 The bug was introduced with version 19.0.152 (_When playing with real-time DSD output, a sample rate change of the input won't reset the output DAC_) That change was backed out which caused many stability issues with many users.
  
 J.River 19.0.163 is good to use. Any version between 19.0.152 to 19.0.162 needs to be upgraded to 19.0.163 to avoid a potential continuous noise bust with the iDSD.


----------



## MLGrado

roamling said:


> it is simple as you say, no matter if its a 50k system or a 500 dollars one, there is a slight minor pop at the beginning of each file. the brain will adjust to it when listening, but its simply a flaw of spliting the dsd image into multiple tracks. if dsd wants to survive the industry needs to come up with some great idea. i can remember sitting at the "High End" trade show, at the time in Frankfurt some 15 + years ago listening to the first Sony SACD player... i thought wow that sounds good, but sacd never went off for some wired reasons... dont make the same mistake again


 
  
 Actually, I don't think it is simple at all.  Yes, the issue with Channel Classics comes from rendering into individual tracks, but I believe the actual issue that causes those ticks and pops is the same as what causes them in realtime bitstreaming.  Has to do with time/clocking, as far as I know.  I am definitely open to correction...
  
  
I also don't think the guys at Merging on the pro side or the guys on the consumer side, such as iFi are unaware of these small issues or annoyances.  I do think that DSD presents some unique challenges that aren't as simple to solve.  Do I know this?  No.  But I do believe this, based on the various things I have read over the years, and also based on my conversations with Thorsten at AMR/iFi, whom I respect as much as anyone when it comes to keen insight into all things audio...
  
 I imagine there may be ways to work around it, and it would not surprise me at all if the software guys at iFi come up with some kind of 'solution' to a problem that really isn't of their own making.  Reminds me of the USB 3.0 bug from a few months ago.  The bug wasn't an iFi problem.  It was literally a programming error hard coded by Intel themselves, and Intel was not going to fix things anytime soon, since it affected, well, statistically speaking, no one.  But after I am sure growing tired of hearing people complain about a bug that wasn't their own, iFi went out and rewrote code to compensate for Intel's error.  
  
  
 I do believe a lot of these DSD bitstream issues may more readily be solved on the player side. Jriver, Pure Music, etc.  John' post is a good example of how different Jriver builds give quite different results.  
  
 DSD can sound quite lovely.  As a matter of fact, I believe that the very best sounding recordings in my collection are pure DSD recordings by Polyhymnia for Pentatone.  There is just a certain something special that is difficult to describe.  I personally will deal with a little inconvenience for that kind of playback experience.  But I totally understand why some may not feel the same.


----------



## MLGrado

Hello N. !!  Good to see you on Head Fi!
  


wisnon said:


> Well, they are both headphone Dacs with amps and they both play PCM and DSD. To me the comparison is self insistent.
> 
> Also, they are about the same total size.
> 
> There are many ways to skin a cat, I am asking for opinions on how the result of the skinning appeals to people who have compared both directly. People in the market for portable HeadDacAmps should rightly do some kind of due diligence here.


 
....didn't you have a Chord DAC at one time?  I can't remember if it was you or some one else who had a Qute.
  
anyway, I can't directly answer your question, but, according to the boys at iFi their house sound is quite different than Chord.  So that would be a starting point.  Also, we know that the iFi products do native DSD conversion without DSP.  Whatever Chord does on their FPGA, only Chord really knows.   I am going to venture a guess, and only a guess, that some kind of DSP is going on there.


----------



## MLGrado

Okay, I had been experiencing some more pops and ticks than usual.  I was noticing them more via my speakers and was thinking the reason I was noticing them more was due to that change in listening method... from headphones to speakers.  If you read one of my earlier posts, you can see I was somewhat bewildered that simply moving to loudspeakers would make that much difference in the severity of the pops and ticks.  
  
 As is turns out, I believe it was the Jriver software.  Jriver updated this morning to the latest build.  And gone, gone, gone are the pops and ticks.  No matter what kind of format switch, there is now only the most tiny of clicks.  So tiny as to be unmentionable, which is how it was when I initially reviewed the iDSD micro.  
  
  
 So, I can again say that using the latest Jriver on Windows 7 with the iFi ASIO driver, pops and clicks are a non issue.  So, if you are having problems, know that this isn't the norm, and it should be fixable.  Either in your configuration settings, or via your software maker.  If you can't get this nailed down on your end, send a message to your software maker and let them know what you are experiencing.


----------



## Dixter

Just in case you want to use the X5 as transport... the Ifi idsd micro is fantastic with the X5 and so far every head phone I've thrown at it... including IEM's as the idsd micro has built in IEM comp built in...  tons and tons of power...    not a pocket solution but still a portable solution
 when you don't want to carry or mess with a computer/laptop...   the coax output of the X5 is perfect for this setup..
 presently I'm burning in a set of Oppo PM-2 phones and its sounding really nice so far...


----------



## ClieOS

dixter said:


> Just in case you want to use the X5 as transport... the Ifi idsd micro is fantastic with the X5 and so far every head phone I've thrown at it... including IEM's as the idsd micro has built in IEM comp built in...  tons and tons of power...    not a pocket solution but still a portable solution
> when you don't want to carry or mess with a computer/laptop...   the coax output of the X5 is perfect for this setup..
> presently I'm burning in a set of Oppo PM-2 phones and its sounding really nice so far...


 
  
 Agree. I have been listening to X5 -> coax-out -> iDSD micro for the last few days and the combo is excellent.


----------



## earfonia

Just placed pre-order for Micro at Stereo Singapore. Stock arrival is delayed to September :-\


----------



## john57

I have trying out my other headphones like my Beyer DT860 which does not have the flattest response but can play play high SPL without distortion like my Sony 7520 and better than the DT880 and the DT990. Not sure why the DT860 is not more popular.  Anyway, all headphones have their plus and minus.


----------



## Somphon

roamling said:


> it is simple as you say, no matter if its a 50k system or a 500 dollars one, there is a slight minor pop at the beginning of each file. the brain will adjust to it when listening, but its simply a flaw of spliting the dsd image into multiple tracks. if dsd wants to survive the industry needs to come up with some great idea. i can remember sitting at the "High End" trade show, at the time in Frankfurt some 15 + years ago listening to the first Sony SACD player... i thought wow that sounds good, but sacd never went off for some wired reasons... dont make the same mistake again


 
  
 My issue is the pop is quite loud (so no getting used to it)  in this set-up: MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
  
No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> Chord Hugo -> LCD-3(f)
No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Amarra Syphony -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
  
 So I think its the Audirvana Plus issue.


----------



## pearljam50000

somphon said:


> My issue is the pop is quite loud (so no getting used to it)  in this set-up: MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
> 
> No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> Chord Hugo -> LCD-3(f)
> No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Amarra Syphony -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
> ...



I see you have both the Micro and the Hugo, can you please compare?


----------



## semeniub

somphon said:


> My issue is the pop is quite loud (so no getting used to it)  in this set-up: MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
> 
> No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> Chord Hugo -> LCD-3(f)
> No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Amarra Syphony -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
> ...


 
 I'm an Audirvana+ user, and have already trained myself to lower the volume when switching between PCM and DSD playback to help avoid the "pop".


----------



## cvision123

semeniub said:


> Charged up now - playing with the TotalDAC D1 usb cable and Audeze LCD2's... it's like magic! Will have to make sure too much time isn't "lost" exploring the music collection today.




IMHO, you'll loose ton of time because of the iDSD micro and a good pair of headphones


----------



## semeniub

cvision123 said:


> IMHO, you'll loose ton of time because of the iDSD micro and a good pair of headphones


 
 So true already.


----------



## BillsonChang007

cvision123 said:


> IMHO, you'll loose ton of time because of the iDSD micro and a good pair of headphones


 
 agreed! Can't believe I skipped my gaming time for it D:


----------



## Emerpus

Me too ... been


billsonchang007 said:


> agreed! Can't believe I skipped my gaming time for it D:


 
  
 Mee too! Been listening to the Micro iDSD with my B&O H6 instead of playing games ... since the iDSD arrived ... like ... how long ago was that?!


----------



## wisnon

mlgrado said:


> Hello N. !!  Good to see you on Head Fi!
> 
> ....didn't you have a Chord DAC at one time?  I can't remember if it was you or some one else who had a Qute.
> 
> anyway, I can't directly answer your question, but, according to the boys at iFi their house sound is quite different than Chord.  So that would be a starting point.  Also, we know that the iFi products do native DSD conversion without DSP.  Whatever Chord does on their FPGA, only Chord really knows.   I am going to venture a guess, and only a guess, that some kind of DSP is going on there.


 
 Hi A.
  
 Yup, good memory. I do have a Qute. Not to worry, a pal of mine will son get the Micro and will be able to compare directly both the Hugo and the Micro. I expect the Micro will win hands down on DSD, but it will be a toss up for PCM, where the Hugo has its sweetspot. Rob and many other say the Hugo is better than the Qute, but RossB from Audtalia thinks that with a great LPSU, the Qute is better...more full bodied and richer.
  
 Infact, its no mystery at all what Chord-Rob Watts does with DSD. Rob is extraordinarily forthcoming with his explanations (thus he commands a lot of personal respect from me). thorsten is the same way too.
  
 Rob is not a DSD lover and does not think native playback is as good as his solution. I vehemently disagree. He upsamples/upconverts all incoming signal (PCM and DSD) to 2048fs PCM. That is at 90mhz! Then he brings it back down to a lower rate PCM for output after extensive DSP manipulation. I think the Hugo has 16 DSP cores in FPGA pulse array Dac. Timing is paramount for Watts (4ns threshold) and his Watts Transient Aligned filter is proprietary. All this is buried somewhere in that MONSTER Hugo thread here at Headfi.


----------



## wisnon

somphon said:


> My issue is the pop is quite loud (so no getting used to it)  in this set-up: MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
> 
> No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Audirvana Plus -> Chord Hugo -> LCD-3(f)
> No pop with : MacBook Pro retina late 2012 -> Amarra Syphony -> ifi iDSD Micro -> LCD-3(f)
> ...


 
 The Hugo converts DSD to high rate PCM, so no native playback and thus no chance of popping.


----------



## BillsonChang007

emerpus said:


> Me too ... been
> 
> Mee too! Been listening to the Micro iDSD with my B&O H6 instead of playing games ... since the iDSD arrived ... like ... how long ago was that?!


 
 *brofist*
  
 same here! Enjoying it with the H6 as well! I like it with Annie but I LOVE it with Annie!


----------



## Somphon

wisnon said:


> The Hugo converts DSD to high rate PCM, so no native playback and thus no chance of popping.




Then no use to listen in dsd as it completely take away the joy of music experience. IMO.


----------



## wisnon

somphon said:


> Then no use to listen in dsd as it completely take away the joy of music experience. IMO.


 
 You have both Dacs...what are your impressions of them?


----------



## roamling

mlgrado said:


> Actually, I don't think it is simple at all.  Yes, the issue with Channel Classics comes from rendering into individual tracks, but I believe the actual issue that causes those ticks and pops is the same as what causes them in realtime bitstreaming.  Has to do with time/clocking, as far as I know.  I am definitely open to correction...
> 
> 
> I also don't think the guys at Merging on the pro side or the guys on the consumer side, such as iFi are unaware of these small issues or annoyances.  I do think that DSD presents some unique challenges that aren't as simple to solve.  Do I know this?  No.  But I do believe this, based on the various things I have read over the years, and also based on my conversations with Thorsten at AMR/iFi, whom I respect as much as anyone when it comes to keen insight into all things audio...
> ...


 
  
 Agree, ifi is not at fault here, thats not what i said. My "appeal" to the industry is actually based on the assumption that DSD is a valid format and should be more widely available. The SACD release was not done properly (to be restraint in choosing my wording) and failed to reach a wider audience. The availabilty of DSD downloads is certainly welcome but is prone to these issues. I don't really care in which side the issue is addressed, software or release, as long as there is some type of industry standard for DSD playback.    
  
 JRiver is a great software and can solve these issues on the software side. Last night I enjoyed the Wagner album from Channel Classics.
  
 Right now I have done a complete system overhaul, I will post some pictures on the weekend, I was just mad busy the last couple of days... The ifi micro iDSD is right now in the center of my HiFi and I dont care to much about the headphone section right now. The internal DAC section is doing all the hard work and I dont think I need a mini iDSD at all! 
  
 I also have my hand on the "buy" button for a *LIV Zen Vortexbox.* Fanless design and plays PCM 24/384 and DSD 64/128 straight to a USB DAC. Does anyone have feedback how DSD files play on the Vortexbox software, any issues with pops?


----------



## RadioWonder737

roamling said:


> Agree, ifi is not at fault here, thats not what i said. My "appeal" to the industry is actually based on the assumption that DSD is a valid format and should be more widely available. The SACD release was not done properly (to be restraint in choosing my wording) and failed to reach a wider audience. The availabilty of DSD downloads is certainly welcome but is prone to these issues. I don't really care in which side the issue is addressed, software or release, as long as there is some type of industry standard for DSD playback.
> 
> JRiver is a great software and can solve these issues on the software side. Last night I enjoyed the Wagner album from Channel Classics.
> 
> ...


 

Looks like you have to contact the Seller if you live in the USA... http://livconcepts.co.uk/
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIV-Zen-2Tb-Vortexbox-CD-Ripping-Music-Server-NAS-for-Naim-Linn-Sonos-Squeezebox-/251198726145#shpCntId


----------



## 7cents

I'm having 100% of my collection is PCM. Is iDSD still a decent DAC choice for PCM only?


----------



## ClieOS

7cents said:


> I'm having 100% of my collection is PCM. Is iDSD still a decent DAC choice for PCM only?


 
  
 Of course. Don't forget that DSD1793 in the iDSD is as much a TOTL chip for PCM as it is for DSD.


----------



## WNBC

Indeed!  I only have DSD files that I have obtained for free as trials from sites like 2L.  Even though I haven't purchased a single DSD file the option is there down the road to pursue it.  I do have quite a bit of the high-rez 24/96 and 24/192, but the bulk of my library is average 16/44 flacs.  Micro is excellent with all formats.  DSD playback is a bonus.
  
  
 Quote:


7cents said:


> I'm having 100% of my collection is PCM. Is iDSD still a decent DAC choice for PCM only?


----------



## Emerpus

7cents said:


> I'm having 100% of my collection is PCM. Is iDSD still a decent DAC choice for PCM only?


 
  
 I only have PCM. In fact, I listen to a lot of spotify (non-premium) while the rest of my collection are Flac rip from my XRCD's. Very enjoyable to listen too (ok, depends on the source too ... bad recordings will sound bad still). lol


----------



## technobear

emerpus said:


> 7cents said:
> 
> 
> > I'm having 100% of my collection is PCM. Is iDSD still a decent DAC choice for PCM only?
> ...




But if you want to listen to a bad recording, you can knock off some of the hard edges by engaging the Minimum Phase filter.

The micro iDSD continues to impress here. In the past and with certain CDs in my collection I have become aware that I am gritting my teeth as I listen to them. This no longer happens since the arrival of the micro iDSD. It is a very smooth performer with a very detailed and well separated treble that isn't harsh (unless the recording is harsh). The sound has great depth and seems to reveal layers of sound I wasn't previously aware of or at least was less aware of. I should add that I use the 3D function nearly all the time now. It certainly sounds different to the Audiolab (more later when it's fully burned in) but is giving me 'WOW' moments on a regular basis just like the Audiolab does.


----------



## john57

Normally my LSR305 monitors are connected to my Schiit Lyr but for the last few days I had my micro directly connected to my LSR305 instead of the Lyr. The sound is more direct, sharper and the soundstage width is a bit more diffuse as with the the Lyr. The 3D switch has more of a dramatic effect on the LSR305. It is more of an in you face type of sound but also have greater front to back depth. The 3D effect on headphones is more subtle and it is very headphone dependent and so far not as useful as with the LSR305. Still have to try other headphones. I almost never use the bass switch.


----------



## Somphon

pearljam50000 said:


> I see you have both the Micro and the Hugo, can you please compare?


 
 I'm still burning them in but fwiw - IMO - to my ears at the moment.. after 3 days of listening in my environment with a brand new LCD-3(f).
  
 Micro - it surely is punching way above its weight class. Its fantastically honest sound that works well with good recording. I find it losing control in 16/44 recording at upper mids to lower hi. Sound stage is incredible for device at this price range. It makes me go wow many times with its clarity, truthfulness of the recording and very good sound stage with my LCD-3(f) which is still burning in. What I don't like is too many settings, too many things to do with the device. I like to enjoy my music and not be bothered so much with the device's settings, having to turn down the volume in between each DSD files, etc. I want to enjoy my music. But that's just me. Also I don't understand why they have male USB for charging and don't provide the 'male-male USB' cable in the box. Most universal adapter are male-micro USB or others. Some how the connector for data does not charge the device for me (I plug the USB then turn on the Micro). So I had to go buy a male-male USB connector to charge it. All in all, I feel its a hassle and feels a bit that Micro is a toy product with great sounds. I can see many will like this, but I'm getting too old for it. The 3D sounds I didn't enjoy so much. When I switch it off, I enjoy the music much more. Its great product for it's price range and way above. As mentioned, it make me go WOW but my feet are not tapping.
  
 Hugo - All the above in sound quality but more refine, no messing around with settings. Cross-feed is more natural and I enjoyed it in low or med settings. At the end of the day, I can listen for hours and hours with my head bobbin', singing along and my feet tapping.
  
 Again, this is my personal impression.


----------



## tf1216

somphon said:


> I'm still burning them in but fwiw - IMO - to my ears at the moment.. after 3 days of listening in my environment with a brand new LCD-3(f).
> 
> Micro - it surely is punching way above its weight class. Its fantastically honest sound that works well with good recording. I find it losing control in 16/44 recording at upper mids to lower hi. Sound stage is incredible for device at this price range. It makes me go wow many times with its clarity, truthfulness of the recording and very good sound stage with my LCD-3(f) which is still burning in. What I don't like is too many settings, too many things to do with the device. I like to enjoy my music and not be bothered so much with the device's settings, having to turn down the volume in between each DSD files, etc. I want to enjoy my music. But that's just me. Also I don't understand why they have male USB for charging and don't provide the 'male-male USB' cable in the box. Most universal adapter are male-micro USB or others. Some how the connector for data does not charge the device for me (I plug the USB then turn on the Micro). So I had to go buy a male-male USB connector to charge it. All in all, I feel its a hassle and feels a bit that Micro is a toy product with great sounds. I can see many will like this, but I'm getting too old for it. The 3D sounds I didn't enjoy so much. When I switch it off, I enjoy the music much more. Its great product for it's price range and way above. As mentioned, it make me go WOW but my feet are not tapping.
> 
> ...


 
 I think when you are talking about the male-male USB cable for charging you are talking about the USB input on the side of the Micro iDSD.  Am I correct?  That is actually an output to charge another portable device.  The blue USB cable you are using to connect your laptop to the iDSD is the cable that charges your device.


----------



## Somphon

tf1216 said:


> I think when you are talking about the male-male USB cable for charging you are talking about the USB input on the side of the Micro iDSD.  Am I correct?  That is actually an output to charge another portable device.  The blue USB cable you are using to connect your laptop to the iDSD is the cable that charges your device.


 
 Yes, but the blue cable is not charging it for me. I connect the USB then turn on the device which mean it should charge it, but it does not.
 Only when I use the USB on the side, it will charge.


----------



## tf1216

If the LED doesn't illuminate that means the iDSD is charged.  I just tested this myself.  The LED turns blue if the battery is not fully charged.


----------



## Somphon

tf1216 said:


> If the LED doesn't illuminate that means the iDSD is charged.  I just tested this myself.  The LED turns blue if the battery is not fully charged.


 
 The LED does not illuminate with blue USB when I plug it in to my universal charger or attached to my Macbook Pro, yet it has no juice. So maybe my unit is defective.
 Still have not decide if I want to keep it or trade it in for something else.


----------



## tf1216

somphon said:


> The LED does not illuminate with blue USB when I plug it in to my universal charger or attached to my Macbook Pro, yet it has no juice. So maybe my unit is defective.
> Still have not decide if I want to keep it or trade it in for something else.


 
 Hmm...maybe it is defective.  How did you get it to work earlier?  Did it come to you partially charged?


----------



## wisnon

somphon said:


> Yes, but the blue cable is not charging it for me. I connect the USB then turn on the device which mean it should charge it, but it does not.
> Only when I use the USB on the side, it will charge.


 
 Huh?
  
 I use the black cable with the head connected at 90degrees angle for charging, not the shorter balck cable, nor the blue cable. i think you must have misplaced a cable, as I got 3 USB cables in the box. No pops either, even when switching from DSD256 and other rates and PCM.


----------



## RHMMMM

So I'm a bit confused about the 24 hour charging rule also.  I got mine today and I plug it into the charger and the blue light stays on for about a minute, then turns off.  I assume that means the battery is charged....but why are they pushing the 24 hour charge if it's not necessary??
  
 How long did everyone else's initial charge take?


----------



## RadioWonder737

rhmmmm said:


> So I'm a bit confused about the 24 hour charging rule also.  I got mine today and I plug it into the charger and the blue light stays on for about a minute, then turns off.  I assume that means the battery is charged....but why are they pushing the 24 hour charge if it's not necessary??
> 
> How long did everyone else's initial charge take?


 
 Quote from another user...
 "I scoured this thread to find:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119/1485#post_10732812

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119/1485#post_10732899

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119/1515#post_10735399
  
My charging took about 6 Hours,but I left it on for 24 Hours anyway... All the above links say untill the Blue Light goes off...


----------



## ClieOS

rhmmmm said:


> So I'm a bit confused about the 24 hour charging rule also.  I got mine today and I plug it into the charger and the blue light stays on for about a minute, then turns off.  I assume that means the battery is charged....but why are they pushing the 24 hour charge if it's not necessary??
> 
> How long did everyone else's initial charge take?


 
  
 Battery charges in two way, voltage and current. First it charges mainly on voltage difference, then it goes into a current charging phase once it is near the max upper voltage limit. A smart battery charging circuit will usually detect how much voltage and current are being used and switch accordingly to ensure the battery is getting the right voltage / current and so it won't over-charge the battery. But that doesn't mean the battery stops charging all together. Usually in most case, the battery can still take just a little more to be actually full, but the charging circuit won't know it as they are usually not that sophisticated in design. I'll assume the 24 hours recommendation on the first charge is to help to 'recondition' the battery to make sure the chemicals inside the battery will get fully activated in the first run (a.k.a. getting an actual full charge instead of what the charging circuit thought it has). In other word, the blue LED is likely acting as an indicator where the voltage charging phase is over, but may not be that accurate on the current phase, thus the advised extra time to make sure a full initial charge. It probably doesn't actually need 24 hours but I'll think iFi is just being extra safe for a longer number.


----------



## Somphon

tf1216 said:


> Hmm...maybe it is defective.  How did you get it to work earlier?  Did it come to you partially charged?


 
  
 I use the blue USB to connect and it worked fine. On my listening session yesterday, I tried turning the Micro on before plugging in the USB to use the battery to see if the sound would be cleaner.
 After which the battery ran out. So I take the blue USB and plug it in my universal USB charger for about 12 hours (when I plugged it in, the blue light come on for couple of second and goes off).
 After 12 hours I checked on the unit to find it had no juice at all. When I plug it back to the computer it will have blue light and blinking red, which I assume its low on battery still.
  
 So the blue light indicator does not really work (or work but I'm just clueless). Does anyone know if there's a battery level indicator I don't know about?
 Since the blue light always go off after couple of second, I have no idea if the unit is charging or not.


----------



## jhwalker

somphon said:


> I use the blue USB to connect and it worked fine. On my listening session yesterday, I tried turning the Micro on before plugging in the USB to use the battery to see if the sound would be cleaner.
> After which the battery ran out. So I take the blue USB and plug it in my universal USB charger for about 12 hours (when I plugged it in, the blue light come on for couple of second and goes off).
> After 12 hours I checked on the unit to find it had no juice at all. When I plug it back to the computer it will have blue light and blinking red, which I assume its low on battery still.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds defective.  The blue light should flash for 3-4 hours for a full charge, not a couple of seconds.  When you tried to run it on battery, it ran down immediately, indicating it is not charging, only running via USB power.


----------



## Somphon

wisnon said:


> Huh?
> 
> I use the black cable with the head connected at 90degrees angle for charging, not the shorter balck cable, nor the blue cable. i think you must have misplaced a cable, as I got 3 USB cables in the box. No pops either, even when switching from DSD256 and other rates and PCM.


 
  
  
 What software are you using for playback and what settings? In Audirvana Plus, it only pops when I use DSD over PCM Standard 1.0 setting. In conversion to PCM, it will not pop.
  
 Actually, the 90 degree cable is mine, not from Micro.
 These were my unboxing photo.


----------



## maricius

Here are some kinda older *first impressions* I made jotted down a few hours after I got my iDSD up and running. It's basically a short comparison of the iDSD's amp section and my Cypher Lab Duet
  
  
 Duet
  
 darker treble and more laid-back
 soundstage deeper but similar width
 more mid bass body and thus more rumble
  
  
 iDSD:
  
 faster attack and decay and slightly thinner note presentation
 better PRaT
 better instrument separation
 tighter bass and has a snappier punch
 vocals are more forward
 detail is more obvious
  
  
 As a DAC/amp unit I've experienced more burn-in in device than I ever experienced in my headphones. I'm right now at 44 hours and it has improved quite considerably. Compared to my previous DACport LX and Duet, before any burn-in, the iDSD had an obviously wider soundstage but rather 2 dimensional compared to those two devices I find to be soundstage depth monsters. Bass was rather lean for me but deeper. It was more musical but imaging wasn't as precise. Over around a dozen hours it suddenly started sounding brighter and I was experiencing and bass was altogether lacking except in detail. Imaging also suddenly became more precise. 
  
*Right now at 44 hours* (I leave it playing overnight). Soundstage depth is closer to my previous rig and there is more body to the sound similar to my earlier impressions but keeping the clarity that was gained earlier. Bass is much stronger, tighter, and deeper. It currently seems detached from the rest of the music as to not colour the midrange. It's rather hard to describe. All instruments seem more palpable like it's as if you can almost chew on them… I'd be quite happy if they stopped changing right now. The iDSD the best of musicality and the technicality is good enough that you'd never complain that it's lacking nor feel it to be intruding into enjoying your music. 
  
 I'm still deciding wether I should post a formal review after the 100 hour mark
  
  
 *small edit* 
  
 On my Macbook Air (Mid 2011) and on USB power mode there is a slight hiss on BitPerfect when 3D is turned on. Putting it into "Standard" or "Minimum Phase" would remove the hiss again. 3D seems to only affect a small number of songs… mostly those with extremely different sounds coming out of the left and right channels. On other songs, there is a increase of soundstage depth and soundstage width but this is dependent on the track as well. Overall, the 3D is something that is rather hard to describe too as it seems to emphasize only certain higher frequencies yet is track dependent?? These higher frequencies include some hiss present already on the recording. At first I thought that even on battery mode the BitPerfect mode had hiss but then I realized even switching filters, as the 3D feature is part of the analog domain, there was no differences in noise between the digital settings. Lastly, the XBass feature is honestly subtle relative to the other bass booster features I've experienced beforehand. I actually prefer it this way but it will in no way fix bass-light headphones. 
  
 *huge huge development*
  
 I'm noticing hiss (not from from the recording) from the iDSD while 3D is off, on battery mode, while BitPerfect. This is almost negligible as I didn't notice it at all up to now. It just so happens that it was a long silent passage in a song when I changed BitPerfect to Minimum Phase and poof, it's suddenly noise free with a black black background. This occurs both with the iDSD attached to my laptop or my phone. I find this quite disappointing as "BitPerfect" should be the best sounding setting. I doubt hose of you with an iUSBPower or a coaxial out will have these problems with "BitPerfect."
  
 Interestingly enough, the free DSD tracks that I downloaded have no noise in any setting. I'm sure it's not already present hiss in the PCM files. Would anyone be experiencing the same thing? I prompt you to try picking a song with a quiet passage or a sparsely recorded PCM track and swapping BitPerfect to any of the other digital filter options even while on battery mode.


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> Battery charges in two way, voltage and current. First it charges mainly on voltage difference, then it goes into a current charging phase once it is near the max upper voltage limit. A smart battery charging circuit will usually detect how much voltage and current are being used and switch accordingly to ensure the battery is getting the right voltage / current and so it won't over-charge the battery. But that doesn't mean the battery stops charging all together. Usually in most case, the battery can still take just a little more to be actually full, but the charging circuit won't know it as they are usually not that sophisticated in design. I'll assume the 24 hours recommendation on the first charge is to help to 'recondition' the battery to make sure the chemicals inside the battery will get fully activated in the first run (a.k.a. getting an actual full charge instead of what the charging circuit thought it has). In other word, the blue LED is likely acting as an indicator where the voltage charging phase is over, but may not be that accurate on the current phase, thus the advised extra time to make sure a full initial charge. It probably doesn't actually need 24 hours but I'll think iFi is just being extra safe for a longer number.


 


  
 Hi,


  
 The Blue LED thing is somewhat different. Please allow us to chime in here.


  
 1) The Blue LED Charge indication is current based. It will go off if there is not enough charge current (the iDSD micro needs at least 500mA).


  
 2) The 24-Hour rule is simply for "conditioning" the battery. Because we care about the very last detail, we are offering our recommendation for giving the battery the best start. We dont think many manufacturers are as finicky as we are. So dont lose sleep over this. It is not that big a deal. Anyway, the battery voltage will drop as the battery settles and then will receive a small top-up charge. It is mainly meant to re-condition the battery if it has been idle for a long time due to sitting on some shelf in some warehouse (should not apply to current units).


  
 3) The iDSD micro will charge when turned off and under some conditions when turned on.


  
 If turned off it will charge from any power source (even at very low current) and will charge the battery to 100% Capacity.


  
 However, when turned on it will charge the battery to only 80%. This has been shown in tests to give a service life for the battery equal to shelf life. It is meant for use where the iDSD micro is always on and attached to a desktop PC / Media Server and is used stationary.


  
 If the battery is charged to more than 80% and the unit is turned on it will not charge until the battery drops to less than 80% charge.

  

  

  
 For example, if there is not enough current to charge from the source (bad/cheap charger + high DCR cable) the Blue LED will be off.

  
 Interestingly, in this case there will be still be a bit of charge current flowing, but it will be below ~ 100mA, which for all intent and purpose is "nothing" (around 60 Hours+ for full charge).

  

  
 So the Blue LED is on if the Charge current is > 100mA.

  

  
 If the unit is blinking alternating red-blue it means it is charging, but in "under voltage lockout". This can only happen if the unit is switched on.

  
 It is kind of a message telling the user "switch me off and let me charge PLEASE". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It is called Smart Power after all!
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

somphon said:


> The LED does not illuminate with blue USB when I plug it in to my universal charger or attached to my Macbook Pro, yet it has no juice. So maybe my unit is defective.
> Still have not decide if I want to keep it or trade it in for something else.


 

 Hi,
  
  
 1) Please read the contents page on the Crowd-Design thread about the charging function behind the micro iDSD. It is a big battery as portable devices go.
  
 Does "No juice" means the Red "Low Battery indication" is on, or the unit is completely dead?
  
  
 2) In either case, please turn the unit OFF and plug it into a charger,preferably a "Fast Charge" model capable of supplying over 1A @ 5V. USB Ports of Mac/PC Hardware also charges fine.
  
 Please be aware that some inexpensive cheap and cheerful chargers actually do not even remotely meet the claimed specifications and cannot charge the iDSD micro and they are often designed in way that violate electrical safety rules and can cause serious harm or death. Only use Chargers from reputable sources.
  
 See this test for some more background:
 www.lygte-info.dk/info/usbPowerSupplyTest%20UK.html
  
 Equally, some USB Cables have so high DCR (again, mostly inexpensive items) and thus can drop so much voltage that the iDSD micro cannot charge.
  
 This is why we recommend the blue USB3 cable, among many cables we tested it has the lowest resistance on the power legs (well, a an iFi Mercury or Gemini Cable has lower DCR),we could not find any reasonable length USB 2.0 Cable that did at least half as well.
  
 The very short cables included have low DCR by virtue of their short length.
  
  If you are still stuck, open a support ticket and we'll go through the steps one by one. Absolutely fine.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Somphon

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 1) Please read the contents page on the Crowd-Design thread about the charging function behind the micro iDSD. It is a big battery as portable devices go.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your comment.
  
 I use the blue usb provided for charging through either my Macbook Pro retina or my iPad original charger. So quality of parts should be ok. 
 I kept the device off for 12 hour charging (not first charge) with the iPad charger and came home, plug it back in to my Macbook for listen, it come up blue and blinking red - no sounds.
  
 Some how later, its working. It's probably just me not being able to figure the Micro out. At the same time, I think a music device should have less conditions for use and allow owners to enjoy the music it is reproducing.


----------



## iFi audio

somphon said:


> Thanks for your comment.
> 
> 
> I use the blue usb provided for charging through either my Macbook Pro retina or my iPad original charger. So quality of parts should be ok.
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Totally understood.
  
 Actually, the instruction card took quite a while to write.
  
 Dont worry - we are still getting questions daily on the LEDs and what they mean etc.
  
 As you can appreciate - the micro iDSD is pretty feature-packed, hence there are more Q+As.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

somphon said:


> Thanks for your comment.
> 
> 
> I use the blue usb provided for charging through either my Macbook Pro retina or my iPad original charger. So quality of parts should be ok.
> ...


 

  
 Hi,
  
 You're welcome. All good.
  
  
 As you have the iPad charger. To charge on iPad charger follow these steps:
  
 1) Turn unit off.
  
  
 2) Plug into charger (use the accompanying USB cable)
  
  
 3) Watch for Blue Light to come on and stay on - then leave to charge until the blue light goes off.
  
  
 As for the rest. Having a charged battery (at least around 10% charge) before turning on is not much of a condition.
  
 Neither is the requirement to use a charger that is compatible.
  
 If the battery is flat, as with any battery-powered device, it wont turn on. Hence is what we think you have experienced.


----------



## semeniub

Another sonic update - I had been really impressed so far with how the micro iDSD was working together with a good USB cable and Audeze LCD2 headphones. Now I connected the headphones to the speaker taps of a small tube amplifier with Mullard NOS 12AX7 and EL84 tubes. The micro iDSD was then used for DAC duties only.
  
 Fireworks! There was no lacking in depth and drive with this setup. Bass was hard and fast, and treble was sweet.
  
 I will also check the micro iDSD in a setup with solid state Clones Audio preamplifier and mono block amps to see what my preferred use of the micro iDSD will be: (1) as a mainly portable DAC/Amp, (2) as a DAC in a tube amp headphone setup, (3) as a DAC together with SS amps and speakers.
  
 Fun times.


----------



## RHMMMM

Hey iFi, my iDSD Micro came with a Large size T-shirt. Size wasn't an option when I ordered. How do I trade it for a Medium?


----------



## iFi audio

rhmmmm said:


> Hey iFi, my iDSD Micro came with a Large size T-shirt. Size wasn't an option when I ordered. How do I trade it for a Medium?


 

 Hi,
  
 We only made 512 of the t-shirts in large.
  
 As is the case with such accessories, we were only able to make 1 size.
  
 When you speak to your iClub concierge, let he/she know to make a note for the future.
  
 We'll bear you in mind.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Somphon

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You're welcome. All good.
> 
> ...


 
  OK
  
 1) Turn unit off. - DONE
 2) Plug into charger (use the accompanying USB cable) - DONE
 3) Watch for Blue Light to come on and stay on - then leave to charge until the blue light goes off. - Blue light come on for couple second and blue light goes off
  
 4) Leave for 12 hours anyway.
  
 5) Plug in to MacBook Pro Retina 
 6) Turn unit ON
 7) Blue light come on 1 second, red light blinking, no more light - no sound, nothing. --- how is this easy?
  
 I've been around audio equipment for over 35 years where I still remember my dad's Kensonic P-300 and as an IT business owner and a gadget freak, charging batteries is not much of condition, unless it does not work or charging batteries comes with a lot of conditions and a manual (and hundreds of discussion thread)
  
 As you mentioned yourself, there are a lot of Q&A about the 'light' and we are also discussing it over the quality of sound (of an audio equipment), should be a good indicator that there are things to improve upon. So please take it with constructive view instead of assuming that people here in Head-fi uses cheap sub-par charger or usb wire. (Actually I never heard this to be a condition for a unit to work even from a several thousand $ unit manufacturer). Anyway, you have a great product that I think will sell like hot cakes (this means selling a lot, btw).


----------



## Emerpus

technobear said:


> But if you want to listen to a bad recording, you can knock off some of the hard edges by engaging the Minimum Phase filter.
> 
> The micro iDSD continues to impress here. In the past and with certain CDs in my collection I have become aware that I am gritting my teeth as I listen to them. This no longer happens since the arrival of the micro iDSD. It is a very smooth performer with a very detailed and well separated treble that isn't harsh (unless the recording is harsh). The sound has great depth and seems to reveal layers of sound I wasn't previously aware of or at least was less aware of. I should add that I use the 3D function nearly all the time now. It certainly sounds different to the Audiolab (more later when it's fully burned in) but is giving me 'WOW' moments on a regular basis just like the Audiolab does.


 
  
 Don't get me wrong ... I am enjoying the Micro iDSD very much with PCM. Just that some recordings are meh ... when compared to one with good recording. But I'll give the minimum phase a try ... have not tried it yet ... bit perfect was just sooo enjoyable 
  
 BTW, how different or how much better is the iCAN as compared to the amp section of the iDSD?


----------



## bikutoru

> I'm noticing hiss (not from from the recording) from the iDSD while 3D is off, on battery mode, while BitPerfect. This is almost negligible as I didn't notice it at all up to now. It just so happens that it was a long silent passage in a song when I changed BitPerfect to Minimum Phase and poof, it's suddenly noise free with a black black background. This occurs both with the iDSD attached to my laptop or my phone. I find this quite disappointing as "BitPerfect" should be the best sounding setting. I doubt hose of you with an iUSBPower or a coaxial out will have these problems with "BitPerfect."


 
 I'm on OSX 10.9.4, notes on hiss first -
 Very easy to get it in Audirvana Plus, no up-sampling/both iZotope or CoreAudio - HISS is very audible for Micro in usb power/bit-perfect filter/normal power mode(eco is not enough to drive AKG K702)/IEMatch off/ lossless files or straight CD.  I pause the music and rotate the volume nob all the way up, with Audirvana hiss stays. With iTunes or iTunes/BitPerfect it subsides within a second. I tried the same ALAC files and the same CD with O2/ODAC and it is black/dead silent, made me appreciate it even more how good that combination is. Micro also has some clicks and sound artifacts when I turn it on/off that I never experienced with O2/ODAC, hopefully some of it can be remedied with firmware.
  
  
 Playing with Micro for a second day here, tried JRiver upsampling to DSD, first time it appeared, that YES it is great, but then I tried it again and agin - no it was a placebo effect. First time just made me pay close attention, when the same attention applied without upsampling it sounds the same. Learned that with upsampling it is so much easier to create audible artifacts, appears in both Audirvana and BitPerfect.
 Tried some hi-rez, digital masters in 192kHz, out of 6-7 that I have two have really bad distortions, first thought something is wrong with Micro, but on close listening with O2/ODAC that downsamples them distortions are in files, made me remember some articles how easy it is introduce distortion in hi-rez and how pointless they are. Some of them do sound very nice, but it also might be they very very carefully and properly audioengineered and in they would sound just as good in redbook. I have some mp3 in 192kbps that sound better then many recordings in lossless.
  
 I got Micro because it seem to be so versatile - trying it on desktop, on main system, on mobile. Not cheap but does a lot and well.
  
 Found that lossless on iPhone5s or iPad -> camera kit -> Micro -> NAD HP50 makes musical heaven  YES, musical HEAVEN.


----------



## KmanChu

So iFi guys,
  
 If the micro iDSD spends the vast majority of its time on my desktop plugged into my iUSB Power, should I just turn it on after the computer and all are started up (to run in bus-power mode) and then just leave it on after that? (no matter how much turning the computer off-and-on I do?) From what you said that would provide the best battery life, correct?
  
 Also, when running in bus-power mode, will the headphone amp also draw on the battery when needed for power output, say in Turbo or Normal mode?


----------



## technobear

emerpus said:


> BTW, how different or how much better is the iCAN as compared to the amp section of the iDSD?




I'll let you know next month when I compare them. Still running in the iDSD so the iCAN is not in use at the moment.


----------



## iFi audio

somphon said:


> OK
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 Hi,

  
 We would have to see what causes it not to charge with the iPad charger.

  
 Maybe try a PC/Mac USB port or a different charger?

  
 Or possibly take it back to your retailer and ask them to look at it.
  
 The light is not simply to do with the charge status - it also depicts the music file/sample rate. Hence questions because it does so many things.

  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

kmanchu said:


> So iFi guys,
> 
> 
> If the micro iDSD spends the vast majority of its time on my desktop plugged into my iUSB Power, should I just turn it on after the computer and all are started up (to run in bus-power mode) and then just leave it on after that? (no matter how much turning the computer off-and-on I do?) From what you said that would provide the best battery life, correct?
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 If the iDSD micro is plugged into the iUSB Power just turn on after connecting and leave both on, regardless of the state of the PC.
  
 This way the battery will be maintained at optimum charge for "float" (aka standby) operation.
  
 And yes, the iDSD will draw on the battery whenever it needs more power than provided by the USB port, to make up the shortfall.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## RHMMMM

Can we get a list of approved chargers?  I'm not confident my chargers are working correctly because the blue light goes out so quickly.  i.e. Today, I used my iFi for 2 hours, then plugged it in and the blue light went out in <20 seconds. 
  
 I am using the Anker 5-port 40W USB Charger available on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Family-Sized-Desktop-Charger-PowerIQ-Technology/dp/B00IBDOB5I
  
 I have also tried the single-port 24W USB Charger that came with my Dell Venue 11 Pro.
  
 Edit, dug out my 12W Official Apple iPad charger and I get the same behavior.  Is something wrong with my unit?  Shouldn't the light stay on longer?


----------



## iFi audio

rhmmmm said:


> Can we get a list of approved chargers?  I'm not confident my chargers are working correctly because the blue light goes out so quickly.  i.e. Today, I used my iFi for 2 hours, then plugged it in and the blue light went out in <20 seconds.
> 
> 
> I am using the Anker 5-port 40W USB Charger available on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Family-Sized-Desktop-Charger-PowerIQ-Technology/dp/B00IBDOB5I
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 A couple of questions:
  
 1) Is the unit switched off?
  
 2) Check for no loose connections between the USB cable and the charger/s itself

  
 3) The enclosed USB 3.0 cable is used? (Not another USB 2.0 cable?)
  
 4) Does it charge as per normal when plugged into a USB port? Or does the blue light go out after 20s with every different charger you try?

  
 Yes - the Apple chargers are fine. The iPad 12W of course recharges faster than the iPhone charger.
  
 We are just trying narrow things down - apologies to others for their patience.
  
 If need, you can open a support ticket.
  
 Thanks


----------



## wisnon

somphon said:


> What software are you using for playback and what settings? In Audirvana Plus, it only pops when I use DSD over PCM Standard 1.0 setting. In conversion to PCM, it will not pop.
> 
> Actually, the 90 degree cable is mine, not from Micro.
> These were my unboxing photo.


 
 You are missing the black USB cable with the angled connector. It is longer than the one at the bottom left one in picture 1 above. I have only used the Dac with headphones via my iMac so far.


----------



## RadioWonder737

*I do not see the "**Silcone Sheet**"*with 2 x Silicone bands - situated between Smartphone+micro iDSD with silicone bands to hold firmly together
*Unless it is hiding in the box somewhere...*


----------



## RHMMMM

Mine was in the top compartment with the sticker.  It's clear/white and was underneath the sticker.  I didn't see it at first.


----------



## RHMMMM

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> A couple of questions:
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, I think I'm set on charging.  I believe the battery has been capping itself off over USB as I have been using it that way.  I deliberately used the SmartPower charging port to charge a tablet and it ran the battery down a bit and the blue LED is staying lit much longer this time.  False alarm. 
  
 Does it charge from an iPad when using it with the camera connector kit also?
  
 Now I just need help getting rid of laggy playback via Jriver 19.  Any advice there? 
  
 By laggy I mean slight gaps in playback.  I wouldn't say it's as bad as "stuttering" but I perceive some issues.


----------



## BillsonChang007

rhmmmm said:


> Does it charge from an iPad when using it with the camera connector kit also?




^ this. It seem to drains my iPad/iPhone faster than usual not sure why. Even if I switch it on before connecting to my device.

Or my iPad/iPhone's battery is just aging :rolleyes:


----------



## bikutoru

iFi-Audio, I have a question.
  
 I connected my iPad with camera adapter to iDSD's usb in and then coax to my reciever and started playing. It plays and sounds great, but then I noticed that iDSD is not even on, it is off! The led light is off too.
  
 It has to be using the battery isn't it?
 Converting the signal from USB to COAX does take energy, so why the led is off?


----------



## john57

rhmmmm said:


> Now I just need help getting rid of laggy playback via Jriver 19.  Any advice there?
> 
> By laggy I mean slight gaps in playback.  I wouldn't say it's as bad as "stuttering" but I perceive some issues.


 
 Yes there is much to say on that. What files format are you playing? What is your source hardware? Does this happens in the middle of a track?
 Have you set the J.River buffering at 500ms? Always set the buffering at 500ms is good advice regardless on how strong your PC/laptop is.
 Are you using safe UBS buffer mode and large buffer size on the IFI control panel?
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_JRMC18+19.pdf


----------



## RHMMMM

bikutoru said:


> iFi-Audio, I have a question.
> 
> I connected my iPad with camera adapter to iDSD's usb in and then coax to my reciever and started playing. It plays and sounds great, but then I noticed that iDSD is not even on, it is off! The led light is off too.
> 
> ...




I just replicated this behavior. I believe it is using USB power from the iPad to power the XMOS chip and some of the other innards, perhaps. See my question above about battery usage and iPad. I used the device for hours last night and the iFi battery was not worn down at all afterwards. 

There
 is no analog output when the power/volume knob is off, but the digital output is functional.

I even tried the Onkyo HF player on the iPad with upsampling and my external DAC shows 176.4kHz with the iFi iDSD powered off! Cool stuff.


----------



## bapspidoff

somphon said:


> OK
> 
> 1) Turn unit off. - DONE
> 2) Plug into charger (use the accompanying USB cable) - DONE
> ...




I can confirm that this exact same thing happened to me last night. Was listening to the micro when it suddenly turned off (supposedly due to low battery). I went to plug it into my iPad charger with the blue usb3 cable but noticed that the blue LED came on for only a second before turning off again. This happened repeatedly, sometimes the LED not turning on at all. Turning the unit on did nothing whatsoever. I got frustrated, started to draft a ticket to support but before I sent it I tried plugging it in one more time and the blue LED stayed lit. Go figure.... Now I'm listening to it no problems.


----------



## MLGrado

roamling said:


> Agree, ifi is not at fault here, thats not what i said.


 
  
 Hi.  Yeah, I know you were not saying that.  Didn't mean to imply that you were.  Sorry.  Was just taking the opportunity to rant and ramble, which I am quite good at!
  
  
 Andrew


----------



## MLGrado

wisnon said:


> Hi A.
> 
> Yup, good memory. I do have a Qute. Not to worry, a pal of mine will son get the Micro and will be able to compare directly both the Hugo and the Micro. I expect the Micro will win hands down on DSD, but it will be a toss up for PCM, where the Hugo has its sweetspot. Rob and many other say the Hugo is better than the Qute, but RossB from Audtalia thinks that with a great LPSU, the Qute is better...more full bodied and richer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, been working all weekend, thus I haven't been able to get back to you...
  
 I was very interested in the Hugo at one time, too.  Just too much $$$.  I would probably sink that kind of money into something like, well, a LAMPI   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !
  
  
 There are several products out there that sample DSD to a super high PCM rate.   Or something PCM like.  Or some kind of hybrid.  Gotta be careful when using those three letters.  For some reason it gets people all worked up!   Whatever the case, there are many intermediate multi-bit, high sample rate possibilities.  PS audio with its new Direct Stream DAC is doing something like what Chord does, except instead of downconverting to PCM, they go to DSD128 with everything!  Now how this makes native DSD files better, I don't know, since they are already delta sigma modulated, and all you need is to simply convert it to analog!  You don't need a gazillion redundant samples added, topped with the necessary filtering, followed by re-modulation... etc. etc. etc...
  
 Of course the people in the industry who are building DAC's that use DSP with DSD files claim that it makes them sound better.  In reality, though, they are really selling convenience.  We all love things like digital volume control.  And in this world where everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too, no one is going to tell you that the convenience you just bought is at the expense of quality.  
  
 Now before anyone takes what I saying the wrong way, DACs like the Chord or the PS Audio or anything built on the ESS chipset, sound excellent, and are justly well reviewed.  DSD combined with digital signal processing can and does sound very good.  And in some ways, yes can even sound better.  I don't think Rob at Chord is imagining things or making things up, because yes, there are things I hear in processed DSD that sound better.   But, on the whole, just cannot match native DSD playback.  Once you have heard it, you are hooked.  No going back, in my opinion...


----------



## bikutoru

rhmmmm said:


> I just replicated this behavior. I believe it is using USB power from the iPad to power the XMOS chip and some of the other innards, perhaps. See my question above about battery usage and iPad. I used the device for hours last night and the iFi battery was not worn down at all afterwards.
> 
> There
> is no analog output when the power/volume knob is off, but the digital output is functional.
> ...


 
 Only the coax spdif works with power off, optical still needs the power.


----------



## bikutoru

canceled


----------



## RHMMMM

bikutoru said:


> Only the coax spdif works with power off, optical still needs the power.




I was under the impression the optical portion was input only, are you saying it does optical output, also?


----------



## bikutoru

rhmmmm said:


> I was under the impression the optical portion was input only, are you saying it does optical output, also?


 
  You are right, toslink is exclusively for input. SPDIF output is coax only. It's in the manual. I should've checked it before posting.


----------



## RHMMMM

Haha, ok, I was getting excited for a bonus feature!


----------



## Somphon

bapspidoff said:


> I can confirm that this exact same thing happened to me last night. Was listening to the micro when it suddenly turned off (supposedly due to low battery). I went to plug it into my iPad charger with the blue usb3 cable but noticed that the blue LED came on for only a second before turning off again. This happened repeatedly, sometimes the LED not turning on at all. Turning the unit on did nothing whatsoever. I got frustrated, started to draft a ticket to support but before I sent it I tried plugging it in one more time and the blue LED stayed lit. Go figure.... Now I'm listening to it no problems.


 
  
 I see couple other people getting the same issue, but ifi seems to be addressing this to user's error 
  
 Last night I left it plugged in to my Macbook Pro and the notebook charger was disconnected. I work to find the Micro has blinking green light. Once I plug the Macbook charger back on, now my Micro has blinking blue light. I can not find any where in the manual about blinking green or blinking blue light. My Chord Hugo has lights of the rainbow and I understood in in my hour of use since the manual was quite clear about it.


----------



## chawya22

somphon said:


> I see couple other people getting the same issue, but ifi seems to be addressing this to user's error
> 
> Last night I left it plugged in to my Macbook Pro and the notebook charger was disconnected. I work to find the Micro has blinking green light. Once I plug the Macbook charger back on, now my Micro has blinking blue light. I can not find any where in the manual about blinking green or blinking blue light. My Chord Hugo has lights of the rainbow and I understood in in my hour of use since the manual was quite clear about it.


 
 The manual states that a 'flashing' green led means the iDSD is waiting for a USB connection. I'm don't know about the flashing blue led but I think it was mentioned in one of the post in this thread from ifi.


----------



## Somphon

chawya22 said:


> The manual states that a 'flashing' green led means the iDSD is waiting for a USB connection. I'm don't know about the flashing blue led but I think it was mentioned in one of the post in this thread from ifi.


 
 the USB is connected, I tried changing USB port. Tried rebooting my Macbook. Still flashing green. 
 All in all, I still can't enjoy my music through Micro today.


----------



## Emerpus

somphon said:


> I see couple other people getting the same issue, but ifi seems to be addressing this to user's error
> 
> Last night I left it plugged in to my Macbook Pro and the notebook charger was disconnected. I work to find the Micro has blinking green light. Once I plug the Macbook charger back on, now my Micro has blinking blue light. I can not find any where in the manual about blinking green or blinking blue light. My Chord Hugo has lights of the rainbow and I understood in in my hour of use since the manual was quite clear about it.


 
  
 There are 2 states for the LED lights, when the unit is powered on or powered off.
  
 When the unit is on, blinking green (user manual says Green Flashing) means unit is awaiting for USB Signal. So likely your Macbook Pro went to sleep.
  
 When you plug in the charger to your Macbook, what you got might have been a steady blue (blinking blue is an unknown state and I've not seen it before in my daily usage) ... so if it's that, basically it got a DSD 256 Signal from the Macbook ... otherwise, I'm not sure what it means.
  
 ifi is using standard trouble shooting techniques to help users resolve issues, eliminate all possible user error then it's down to a possible unit fault. If not, it would be "Nah, your fault. End of Story" instead of could you try this or that. And they did indicate, if all else fail, sent it back to the distributor/agent for resolution.
  
 Stay Chill!


----------



## thisisvv

Anyone compared this with chord hugo yet???
  
  
 V


----------



## Somphon

emerpus said:


> There are 2 states for the LED lights, when the unit is powered on or powered off.
> 
> When the unit is on, blinking green (user manual says Green Flashing) means unit is awaiting for USB Signal. So likely your Macbook Pro went to sleep.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm using my Macbook to type this and it blinking (flashing) blue when OFF and flashing green when on. So my notebook is not sleeping.  Still Micro can't be use. Also I'm not the type to jump to customer service at first sign of trouble, I can figure things out myself. I don't recall having need customer service at all for gadgets. 
  
 Actually, I don't mind to have lots of features on the gadget, but as long as it works. Playing around with the selection can be fun but only at the beginning, in the end, we buy this to listen to music and enjoy music.  We should be able to charge the product, plug it in and enjoy what we spend money for. The fact if, right now, I can't get any music out of my Micro.
  
 Yes, I take it back to the dealer soon, to trade it in for something else that will allow me to enjoy my music than to fiddle around. 
 Possibly a cable upgrade for my LCD-3f or Hugo.


----------



## Emerpus

somphon said:


> I'm using my Macbook to type this and it blinking (flashing) blue when OFF and flashing green when on. So my notebook is not sleeping.  Still Micro can't be use. Also I'm not the type to jump to customer service at first sign of trouble, I can figure things out myself. I don't recall having need customer service at all for gadgets.
> 
> Actually, I don't mind to have lots of features on the gadget, but as long as it works. Playing around with the selection can be fun but only at the beginning, in the end, we buy this to listen to music and enjoy music.  We should be able to charge the product, plug it in and enjoy what we spend money for. The fact if, right now, I can't get any music out of my Micro.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like you have a faulty unit there. Better bring it back for an exchange.


----------



## semeniub

More sonic goodness with the micro iDSD - this time in my main system with Clones Audio amps, iTube and iUSB.
  
 What I'm really appreciating is the flexibility, being able to get a really good sound in whatever system I use it in, fixed or portable. This is just great in an affordable DAC. Not having to invest so much $$$ in an über DAC, where tech is changing so quickly right now, and still being able to have my musical cake is absolutely perfect.


----------



## chawya22

somphon said:


> the USB is connected, I tried changing USB port. Tried rebooting my Macbook. Still flashing green.
> All in all, I still can't enjoy my music through Micro today.


 
 Have you tried connecting the iDSD to a dedicated USB charging device, to see if the Micro just needs a thorough charge? Maybe, because of the iDSD's depleted battery state, charging from the Mac isn't an option right now. I'm assuming everything was working correctly before this event. I have a MacBook Pro and, so far, haven't had any of the problems you are experiencing.


----------



## Somphon

chawya22 said:


> Have you tried connecting the iDSD to a dedicated USB charging device, to see if the Micro just needs a thorough charge? Maybe, because of the iDSD's depleted battery state, charging from the Mac isn't an option right now. I'm assuming everything was working correctly before this event. I have a MacBook Pro and, so far, haven't had any of the problems you are experiencing.


 
  
 Yes, tried charging with iPad charger (Apple charger, not cheap Chinese charger).
 Tried connecting to my Windows PC, the driver cannot detect the unit.
  
 On my Macbook, reboot, reset SMC, PRAM. 
  
 All the Micro is doing is rapid blinking (not flashing) green when turned on and rapid blinking blue when turned off while connected to anything (Macbook, PC, charger).
  
 I think I have a defective unit.


----------



## chawya22

somphon said:


> Yes, tried charging with iPad charger (Apple charger, not cheap Chinese charger).
> Tried connecting to my Windows PC, the driver cannot detect the unit.
> 
> On my Macbook, reboot, reset SMC, PRAM.
> ...


 
 Did it ever work since you've had it? Maybe as you've said, it's just defective. I feel your pain. BTW, you are using the recommended Blue USB 3.0 cable?


----------



## Somphon

chawya22 said:


> Did it ever work since you've had it? Maybe as you've said, it's just defective. I feel you're pain. BTW, you are using the recommended Blue USB 3.0 cable?


 
  
 Yes it worked until this morning. 
  
 Yes I use the blue USB 3.0 cable.


----------



## chawya22

somphon said:


> Yes it worked until this morning.
> 
> Yes I use the blue USB 3.0 cable.


 
 Maybe if you post this problem on the 'iDSD micro Crowd-Designed!' thread, you can get an answer or at least some insight. I know I've seen many replies by iFi support. Good Luck.


----------



## BillsonChang007

somphon said:


> I'm using my Macbook to type this and it blinking (flashing) blue when OFF and flashing green when on. So my notebook is not sleeping.  Still Micro can't be use. Also I'm not the type to jump to customer service at first sign of trouble, I can figure things out myself. I don't recall having need customer service at all for gadgets.
> 
> Actually, I don't mind to have lots of features on the gadget, but as long as it works. Playing around with the selection can be fun but only at the beginning, in the end, we buy this to listen to music and enjoy music.  We should be able to charge the product, plug it in and enjoy what we spend money for. The fact if, right now, I can't get any music out of my Micro.
> 
> ...




Try going to System Preference -> Sound -> select iFi driver  that's what I did one mine at least


----------



## RadioWonder737

somphon said:


> Yes it worked until this morning.
> 
> Yes I use the blue USB 3.0 cable.


 

*You can also go to iFi Support and file a Ticket... Or if you have already Registered,you can use your personal iClub link... *
*http://support.ifi-audio.com/*
  
*Mine did the Flashing Green LED when I was not playing music(I checked the USB cables connection first)... I just went in JRiver and played a music file and the LED stopped flashing...*


----------



## BillsonChang007

LED blinking: standby mode if I am not mistaken


----------



## chawya22

somphon said:


> Yes it worked until this morning.
> 
> Yes I use the blue USB 3.0 cable.


 
 One last thing, is the iDSD shown as an option in the Audio Midi setup utility? It's probably won't address all the problems you're having but it's one more thing to check. What is your source application and does that still show the iDSD as an available output device on your Mac?


----------



## Somphon

chawya22 said:


> One last thing, is the iDSD shown as an option in the Audio Midi setup utility? It's probably won't address all the problems you're having but it's one more thing to check. What is your source application and does that still show the iDSD as an available output device on your Mac?


 
  
  
 Right now my Macbook or my Windows PC is not detecting at all. so in the Audio Midi is seeing the unit (when it was working, yes it's there)
  
 Its rapid blinking green when on, blue when off. As my computers are not detecting the Micro, so it wont play.
 I tried optical, 3.5mm in, and still no sound.
  
 Gonna return it tomorrow.
  
 Thanks everyone.


----------



## Krutsch

Hmm... this thread is making me nervous about ordering one of these.


----------



## RHMMMM

krutsch said:


> Hmm... this thread is making me nervous about ordering one of these.




Well, after figuring out how this thing works and getting comfortable with it, I would buy it again. All of the issues I had were user-education related. There are so many features packed into this thing and it has a pretty manual/simplistic....let's call it "user interface"...consisting of a bunch of switches and one LED light, that it can be confusing at first. It really does sound great and it is about as versatile as you can get for $500.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Indeed. The Micro iDSD is way too feature packed and a single LED light as indicator is after all, not so enough. 

If iFi wish to improve further, I will also suggest that iFi uses a volume lock on the volume knob, given the high output power and the fact that it can be used for "transport", some might store them in a bag and I am worried that one day something will just blast the volume way up. 

IMO 
Billson


----------



## Somphon

rhmmmm said:


> Well, after figuring out how this thing works and getting comfortable with it, I would buy it again. All of the issues I had were user-education related. There are so many features packed into this thing and it has a pretty manual/simplistic....let's call it "user interface"...consisting of a bunch of switches and one LED light, that it can be confusing at first. It really does sound great and it is about as versatile as you can get for $500.


 
  
 My issue with Micro is not user-education related, its that the Micro is not doing what it suppose to do. 
  
 My Hugo is packed with rainbow colors and features, but I was able to learn them in 1 sitting of couple of hours. We can all learn how to use an equipment if it well-designed and consistent in its operation. What we expect it to do, is what it should do - no matter how complex. 
  
 I expect to plug my Micro in to a charger and the blue light comes on and stay on till it fully charged. After which, I expect to hook it to my Macbook or my iPad and listen to music. Make adjustments on the unit to improve sounds, etc. And just enjoy my music.
  
 BUT - What I'm getting before today, is I plug the Mirco to my iPad charger, blue light comes on few second, but I still leave it to charge for 12 hours. Unplugged and hook it up to my source to find no sounds coming out.
  
 Today, I get fast blinking blue light when I hook it up to my charger, my Macbook, my PC, which no one can yet tell me what fast blinking blue light means. None of my computer can detech the unit. Tried input through SPDIF and 3.5mm input and still nothing.
 Micro has what they called smart battery, I expect a smart battery to be smart and allow me to be versatile in my usage and adapt to it, not the other way around.
  
 Same action, different result. Is this a user-education related issue, or equipment flaw?
  
 If you go to Chord Hugo thread, there are more discussion on the quality of sounds, equipment matching (for best sounds), battery life for portable use, etc. That's what we should talk about in an audio equipment.
  
 I remember listening to a talk from a Thai audiophile experts (sound engineer, equipment designer before becoming a writer) when he talks about his experience when he was young. He had a friend who is crazy about everything audio equipment. But when looking at his music style, this guy had all together 5 CDs, most of them for testings! The speaker himself remember when he was starting out, he was buying and testing everything, playing with all the gadgets, upgrades, mods to find that in the end, he was not enjoying any music at all but trying to figured out why the soundstage of the violin was not positioned as he read in Stereophile mag.  
  
 Don't get me wrong, Micro is a great product for a $500 equipment. But I think they are letting these issues getting in the way of a great sound they actually produce. 
 Some how I feel they are in love with the technical and feature side of the equipment than an excellent audio they produce.


----------



## RHMMMM

somphon said:


> My issue with Micro is not user-education related, its that the Micro is not doing what it suppose to do....


 
  
 Right, so my reply was to Krutsch.  Mine seems to be working as intended so far.  It sounds like you may have a defective unit.  Have you opened a ticket and reached out to iFi or your dealer yet?  I would be swapping it from your dealer for a new one ASAP.


----------



## Somphon

rhmmmm said:


> Right, so my reply was to Krutsch.  Mine seems to be working as intended so far.  It sounds like you may have a defective unit.  Have you opened a ticket and reached out to iFi or your dealer yet?  I would be swapping it from your dealer for a new one ASAP.


 
  
  
 Yes, I opened a ticket with iFi already.
 Will update the forum when they get back to me.


----------



## Emerpus

somphon said:


> Yes, I opened a ticket with iFi already.
> Will update the forum when they get back to me.


 
  
 Actually, I would go straight to your dealer (if that's not too troublesome to do ... here in Singapore, it's not too troublesome as we are a city size country) to sort it out as evidence seems to indicate that you have a defective unit ... I doubt any CS would be able to help much.


----------



## Somphon

emerpus said:


> Actually, I would go straight to your dealer (if that's not too troublesome to do ... here in Singapore, it's not too troublesome as we are a city size country) to sort it out as evidence seems to indicate that you have a defective unit ... I doubt any CS would be able to help much.


 
 will do tomorrow.


----------



## RHMMMM

Agree, dealer should exchange it for free, if not, I would complain. You don't want to RMA this and wait for iFi.


----------



## RadioWonder737

rhmmmm said:


> OK, I think I'm set on charging.  I believe the battery has been capping itself off over USB as I have been using it that way.  I deliberately used the SmartPower charging port to charge a tablet and it ran the battery down a bit and the blue LED is staying lit much longer this time.  False alarm.
> 
> Does it charge from an iPad when using it with the camera connector kit also?
> 
> ...


 

Just saw this on JRiver website...  Not sure if this is part of your Laggy/Stuttering problem... Just a thought...
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=90665.0


----------



## Krutsch

rhmmmm said:


> Well, after figuring out how this thing works and getting comfortable with it, I would buy it again. All of the issues I had were user-education related. There are so many features packed into this thing and it has a pretty manual/simplistic....let's call it "user interface"...consisting of a bunch of switches and one LED light, that it can be confusing at first. It really does sound great and it is about as versatile as you can get for $500.


 
  
 Well, I was very intrigued by what read with the iDSD's acumen with high-res PCM including selectable filters and truly next-gen playback characteristics.  So, for its price point, my congratulations to the iFI team.
  
 I design interfaces for a living, including hardware and packaging (I don't work for anyone in the audio industry).  An early, painful lesson I learned was NOT to overload LEDs (i.e. don't get carried away with alternating colors and winking/blinking/flashing modes).  You can see the results of that in this thread.
  
 Additionally, the battery charging circuit, while clearly a crowd-sourced-design item, makes this device appear complex to me (IMO, YMMV).  I have an iUSBPower and from photos it looks like the iDSD Micro has the same enclosure dimensions.  So, I don't understand the use case: the iDSD Micro, for me, seems too large to be used as a portable DAC/amp, yet its design center was clearly for portable sources (e.g. the battery charging circuit, the OTG connector).


----------



## KmanChu

krutsch said:


> Well, I was very intrigued by what read with the iDSD's acumen with high-res PCM including selectable filters and truly next-gen playback characteristics.  So, for its price point, my congratulations to the iFI team.
> 
> I design interfaces for a living, including hardware and packaging (I don't work for anyone in the audio industry).  An early, painful lesson I learned was NOT to overload LEDs (i.e. don't get carried away with alternating colors and winking/blinking/flashing modes).  You can see the results of that in this thread.
> 
> Additionally, the battery charging circuit, while clearly a crowd-sourced-design item, makes this device appear complex to me (IMO, YMMV).  I have an iUSBPower and from photos it looks like the iDSD Micro has the same enclosure dimensions.  So, I don't understand the use case: the iDSD Micro, for me, seems too large to be used as a portable DAC/amp, yet its design center was clearly for portable sources (e.g. the battery charging circuit, the OTG connector).


 
 iFi has a tendency to give the user too much information sometimes with all of their acronyms etc. But, this under the hood disclosure is part of what made the crowd-design thread so much fun. The first thing you have to do is decide how you want to use it
  
 I am using the micro iDSD with the iUSB Power purely on the desktop for now. Using it is simple when it is to be used with the iUSB Power, just plug it all in, turn on the micro iDSD and leave it on regardless of what you do to the computer. When used this way the iDSD will regulate the battery in an ideal way.


----------



## Turrican2

So, anyone with a Micro iCan AND the Micro iDSD.....
  
  
 How are you finding the combination? or does the iDSD do just as well on it's own?  I guess I'll find out in a couple of days when I get mine but was curious.  Apologies if this has been mentioned, not up to speed with the thread


----------



## RHMMMM

Radio: I increased some of the buffer in the iFi driver ASIO control panel and that solved the problem.  Someone suggested this earlier and it worked out.
  
  Krutsch: Yes, I have had the iUSBPower in the past, it is the same enclosure type/dimension.  I can see it being a bit large for regular portable use.  You can see the relative size in the picture below to full size components and an iPad.  I plan on using mine mostly in my office speaker system until my Geek Pulse X comes in, then realistically it may go up for sale or into a drawer to save for long plane trips or vacations, or maybe on the bed stand for bedtime listening.  I think if someone wanted this for regular portable use, it would be overkill, but it depends on the person and how hardcore they are.  It's definitely a "swiss army knife" type of device with all the features loaded in and I really like that it can do so many things and that allows me to experiment with different scenarios in my system.


----------



## RadioWonder737

I set up my buffer when I did the "MP3 to DSD512"...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-when-and-where-do-you-listen-to-the-meaty-monster-page-121/1380#post_10714034


----------



## MLGrado

So, it sounds like the issues so far with the battery is mostly just a matter of learning the led system?  The only real battery charging issue so far seems to be limited to one unit?  That is how I am reading things, anyway.  
  
Maybe the LED system could have been designed more clearly.  There are probably going to be a lot of little things pop up with a device that has this many features.  I hope people don't let small issues keep them from experiencing this unit.  iFi could have sold this unit without any of the extra crowd source features for the same price, and it would still have been worth the money, in my opinion.  That is how good it sounds.  
  
I want to throw a number at you.  
  
_*756. *_
  
As in 756 possible combinations of features on the iDSD Micro.  That means this DAC is going to be used in a considerable number of varied configurations.  And again, there may be a few issues pop up form time to time.  
  
  
Sound quality, though, is what really makes this unit stand apart.  I think those that have had the chance to hear it will agree.  The features are really nice, innovative, etc.  But, it is that I would say intoxicating sound that keeps you coming back for more...


----------



## semeniub

mlgrado said:


> So, it sounds like the issues so far with the battery is mostly just a matter of learning the led system?  The only real battery charging issue so far seems to be limited to one unit?  That is how I am reading things, anyway.
> 
> Maybe the LED system could have been designed more clearly.  There are probably going to be a lot of little things pop up with a device that has this many features.  I hope people don't let small issues keep them from experiencing this unit.  iFi could have sold this unit without any of the extra crowd source features for the same price, and it would still have been worth the money, in my opinion.  That is how good it sounds.
> 
> ...


 
 Completely agree on the sound quality aspect of this device, it does really suck you in. I've auditioned an Auralic Vega in my system and will get it back again, and I will have the chance to do the same with a PS Audio Directstream in the near future. I'm not so sure that these two are going to pull me into the music in the same way that the micro iDSD is doing right now. I always find myself worrying about what I should be hearing, rather than just listening to music when I encounter the high-end DAC's.


----------



## Krutsch

semeniub said:


> Completely agree on the sound quality aspect of this device, it does really suck you in. I've auditioned an Auralic Vega in my system and will get it back again, and I will have the chance to do the same with a PS Audio Directstream in the near future. I'm not so sure that these two are going to pull me into the music in the same way that the micro iDSD is doing right now. I always find myself worrying about what I should be hearing, rather than just listening to music when I encounter the high-end DAC's.


 
  
 Good to know.  Looking at your sig, it looks you have one of everything from iFi Audio.  What's your actual playback chain look like, right now, with the iDSD Micro?  Are you using an external amp?  Are you including the iUSBPower and/or the iTube?  Just curious...


----------



## pearljam50000

semeniub said:


> Completely agree on the sound quality aspect of this device, it does really suck you in. I've auditioned an Auralic Vega in my system and will get it back again, and I will have the chance to do the same with a PS Audio Directstream in the near future. I'm not so sure that these two are going to pull me into the music in the same way that the micro iDSD is doing right now. I always find myself worrying about what I should be hearing, rather than just listening to music when I encounter the high-end DAC's.


 
 Do you mean it's smoother sounding than high-end DAC's?
 Does it lack details?


----------



## semeniub

pearljam50000 said:


> Do you mean it's smoother sounding than high-end DAC's?
> Does it lack details?


 
 I'm listening to Muddy Waters right now on it with a TotalDAC usb cable and LCD2's - last time I heard this album like this was on a Brinkmann turntable/Vandersteen Quatro speaker system. Can't say yet if it's smoother than the high-end dac's I mentioned, but I definitely will check that out once I can audition them at home again. It certainly is approaching the smoothness of the above vinyl setup. It definitely is not lacking in details in this case.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks.
 So in general, do you think it can compete with much higher priced DAC's like the Benchmark DAC1?


----------



## semeniub

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks.
> So in general, do you think it can compete with much higher priced DAC's like the Benchmark DAC1?


 
 I never found the Benchmark to sound smooth during the times that I'd heard it - didn't even want to audition it at home. It just didn't perk up my own particular interest.


----------



## semeniub

krutsch said:


> Good to know.  Looking at your sig, it looks you have one of everything from iFi Audio.  What's your actual playback chain look like, right now, with the iDSD Micro?  Are you using an external amp?  Are you including the iUSBPower and/or the iTube?  Just curious...


 
 I'm shifting the micro iDSD between 3 different setups at home (not counting using as portable with iPhone/iPad):
  
 1) Macbook > Audirvana+ > TotalDAC Usb cable > micro iDSD > Audeze LCD2
 2) iMac > Audirvana+ > Elijah Audio Isolaate USB cable with Kingrex Battery or TotalDAC USB cable > micro iDSD > 3.5 Watt tube amp with Mullard Nos tubes (like a modded Miniwatt N3) > Audeze LCD2
 3) Macbook > Kingrex uArt split USB cable + iUSBPower > micro iDSD > iTube > Clones Audio 55 Watt Monoblocks with Preamp > Epos Standamount + REL subwoofer
  
 Really nice tone and detail with all 3 setups. Setup 2 with the Tube amp driving the Audeze's really ups the energy level on top of the nice tone and detail characteristics - classic Black Sabbath or AC/DC never sounded so good.


----------



## RHMMMM

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks.
> So in general, do you think it can compete with much higher priced DAC's like the Benchmark DAC1?


 
  
 Well, that's comparing an old DAC with something pretty new.  The DAC1 is from like 2004-2005 and I never enjoyed my DAC1 when I had it.  I found it overly detailed, verging on harsh with speakers (Dynaudio Contour S3.4) or headphones, even the HD650's.  I prefer an articulate, yet warm and inviting sound.  
  
 I replaced the DAC1 at the time with an Electocompaniet ECD-1, which was much better.  I'd say that using the ECD-1 with a nice headphone amp (my DIY PPA), the iDSD Micro with internal HPA is more detailed and refined, yet perhaps a tad less warm (This is also from memory...).  I believe that while using the analog RCA outputs of the iDSD is a good experience, but it might not be as solid as with what my old ECD-1 would have provided.  I believe the iDSD's strength really lies in using it as a headphone amp/DAC.  Don't get me wrong, it is good, and the technology is state-of-the-art, I just mean to say that it may not stand up to a dedicated component DAC that has all the advantages of a great power supply and MUCH more PCB board space with discrete components instead of opamps as well as other luxuries that come along with having less design constraints.  
  
 Obviously the ECD-1 lacked a lot of features the iDSD has, so this is really an apples to oranges comparison.  I sold the ECD-1 last year and was experimenting with DSD DACs and I also had, at a point for a few weeks, a TEAC UD-501.  I was one of the first folks with it when it was released in the U.S. and was very excited to get it.  I can definitely say that I like the iDSD more than the UD-501.  At the time, the UD-501 was groundbreaking for offering DSD at such a low price point, but after living with it for a few weeks, I just didn't feel like it had any "magic."  It dutifully completed its job, converting digital to analog, it served its purpose, but it did not evoke any emotions.  I didn't feel inspired by it; I was not bathed...immersed...lost...in the music like when I experience a great component.  It was simply the sound of my music being reproduced...if that makes sense.  It did, however, sell me on DSD.  I ended up selling it because I upgraded to the Meitner MA-1, which is amazing.  It was made even more amazing by a firmware update last month that enhanced the digital filters in the Xilinx FPGA that powers its heart.  The iDSD is no Meitner, but then again, it fits in the palm of my hand and is battery powered and it was $500.  
  
 So, in short, below is my opinion, comparing it against other DACs I have owned in the past.  I believe it competes well considering its price.  This is apples to oranges, so take it for what it's worth:
  
 iDSD > Benchmark DAC1, yes hands down; I very much disliked my DAC1
 iDSD > TEAC UD-501; I have had more fun in two nights with the iDSD than I did in weeks with the UD-501
 iDSD > Electrocompaniet ECD-1 for headphones using the iDSD internal HPA, but the ECD-1 was more "enjoyable" through speakers
 iDSD < Meitner MA-1; no contest in a desktop DAC scenario


----------



## Krutsch

semeniub said:


> I'm shifting the micro iDSD between 3 different setups at home (not counting using as portable with iPhone/iPad):
> 
> 1) Macbook > Audirvana+ > TotalDAC Usb cable > micro iDSD > Audeze LCD2
> 2) iMac > Audirvana+ > Elijah Audio Isolaate USB cable with Kingrex Battery or TotalDAC USB cable > micro iDSD > 3.5 Watt tube amp with Mullard Nos tubes (like a modded Miniwatt N3) > Audeze LCD2
> ...


 
  
 OK, thanks... I was most curious if you were doing anything like this:
  


> Macbook > USB cable + iUSBPower > micro iDSD > iTube > ... 2-channel system...


 
  
 I've been pondering the iTube to use as you describe above (except my current 2-Channel DAC) ...or... with a streamer's analog output between it and an integrated amp.  I take it you are a real fan of the iTube?


----------



## semeniub

krutsch said:


> OK, thanks... I was most curious if you were doing anything like this:
> 
> 
> I've been pondering the iTube to use as you describe above (except my current 2-Channel DAC) ...or... with a streamer's analog output between it and an integrated amp.  I take it you are a real fan of the iTube?


 
 What I mostly noticed with the iTube in a 2 channel system with speakers is that I could achieve an added sense of space and airiness to the sound in a smallish room, that I couldn't get with positioning due to space and small children limitations. I never found that it took away any resolution from the sound.


----------



## Tnewell

Hello,

New member here . Been following this thread after taking delivery of the Micro DSD on Friday.

My Micro DSD is experiencing some power related problems. I can't seem to get to it run off USB power. I have the IUSB power and Gemini Cable. I have gone through the set up numerous times to run it off USB power and it works for a while and then starts blinking that it's low on power.

I know my IUSB is working fine because it works perfectly with my Nano IDSD. 

I have followed the instructions closely for USB power. Plug USB in and then turn on the IDSD. It works for a while and then the LED starts blinking red. It's obvious it's still running on the battery.

I can't figure out what I am doing wrong and it's pretty frustrating.

Tom


----------



## Somphon

tnewell said:


> Hello,
> 
> New member here . Been following this thread after taking delivery of the Micro DSD on Friday.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know the feeling of frustration. Sounds great but can't get it to work.
 I'm still trying to figure it out, hoping it would work (wanting to keep it) as I'm about to return it for something else.


----------



## WriterHead

semeniub said:


> I'm shifting the micro iDSD between 3 different setups at home (not counting using as portable with iPhone/iPad):
> 
> 1) Macbook > Audirvana+ > TotalDAC Usb cable > micro iDSD > Audeze LCD2
> 2) iMac > Audirvana+ > Elijah Audio Isolaate USB cable with Kingrex Battery or TotalDAC USB cable > micro iDSD > 3.5 Watt tube amp with Mullard Nos tubes (like a modded Miniwatt N3) > Audeze LCD2
> ...


 
 Thanks for your review. I also have the Audeze LCD2 (rev 2) and I am planning on using them with my iphone and iDSD micro (bedroom setup). ¿Are you using turbo or normal mode? ¿How many hours of battery life are you getting driving the LCD2?


----------



## semeniub

writerhead said:


> Thanks for your review. I also have the Audeze LCD2 (rev 2) and I am planning on using them with my iphone and iDSD micro (bedroom setup). ¿Are you using turbo or normal mode? ¿How many hours of battery life are you getting driving the LCD2?


 
 Early days yet, I haven't been able to fully test the battery life (most of my source has been from the computer, and USB power has worked well through my cables). Regular listening with the LCD2's and micro on normal mode - turbo mode to really enjoy something dramatic and exciting but watch out for how loud things can get.


----------



## chawya22

I've had my iDSD micro for a couple of weeks now and overall I am totally impressed with its capabilities and sound. My only question or concern is, what does the XBass do? I've switched it on and it's almost like a placebo. I try to imagine I hear a difference but in reality I hear nothing. I've put on bass heavy tracks and still nothing. I've tried low volume and high volume and still nothing. Is it that subtle or is it only apparent with certain combinations of settings or using certain inputs/outputs?


----------



## bikutoru

chawya22 said:


> I've had my iDSD micro for a couple of weeks now and overall I am totally impressed with its capabilities and sound. My only question or concern is, what does the XBass do? I've switched it on and it's almost like a placebo. I try to imagine I hear a difference but in reality I hear nothing. I've put on bass heavy tracks and still nothing. I've tried low volume and high volume and still nothing. Is it that subtle or is it only apparent with certain combinations of settings or using certain inputs/outputs?


 
 In my experience it is very subtle and I'd say tasteful. I'm not a basshead so I prefer it off, but the other day I left it on and left my house for a view hours and when I came back to my computer, put my headphones and hit play, I felt it right away that the bass is a bit more then I use to, so I turned it off. It does what it suppose to, but you also need to try it on different types of music, if you try it on operatic singing, most likely it will have no effect, but an electronic piece of music with a well defined bass line - you should be able to hear it.


----------



## chawya22

bikutoru said:


> In my experience it is very subtle and I'd say tasteful. I'm not a basshead so I prefer it off, but the other day I left it on and left my house for a view hours and when I came back to my computer, put my headphones and hit play, I felt it right away that the bass is a bit more then I use to, so I turned it off. It does what it suppose to, but you also need to try it on different types of music, if you try it on operatic singing, most likely it will have no effect, but an electronic piece of music with a well defined bass line - you should be able to hear it.


 
 I'm not a basshead either but I was just curious to see if it actually worked. Subtle is good but I seriously hear no effect at all. The 3D effect is immediately apparent.  Maybe I'll shuffle through my phones and see if it becomes more apparent.


----------



## MLGrado

Hi all.
  
 I ran into an interesting issue last night.  Not an issue with the iDSD itself, but with my particular equipment and how it interacts with the iDSD.  
  
 I am using both the headphone amp in the iDSD and the line output to my speaker hi-fi.  So both are active at the same time.  
  
 I noticed that when my pre-amp (Integra Research RDC-7) is powered OFF, the iDSD headphone output starts clipping and distorting.   When I switch the pre-amp ON, issue goes away.  No more distortion.  
  
 What I learned is my pre-amp has an 'Active Input Stage', that when powered down is still affecting the line out of the iDSD, restricting its output.  Thus the clipping in the headphone output, which shares the same line signal.  
  
  
 Again, this is not a problem with the iDSD, but is something you may also run into, if you have a preamp like mine, and are using both the line out and the headphone out of the iDSD...


----------



## MLGrado

tnewell said:


> Hello,
> 
> New member here . Been following this thread after taking delivery of the Micro DSD on Friday.
> 
> ...


 
 I have iUSB power.  It works fine, just like the Nano.  Plug it in and forget it.    Sorry you are having problems... Have you opened a ticket with iFi?  I am sure they can work you through this..


----------



## rickyleelee

I got my unit together with iRack and Momentum headphones today, unpacked them immediately. I've been listening via the Beats Executive...I'll try out the Momentum with
 them later. I've been on holiday and a bit late to the party....


----------



## tf1216

rickyleelee, beautiful pictures! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You have inspired me to take one of my setup (with a DSD file playing).


----------



## Tnewell

mlgrado said:


> I have iUSB power.  It works fine, just like the Nano.  Plug it in and forget it.    Sorry you are having problems... Have you opened a ticket with iFi?  I am sure they can work you through this..





Yes I have submitted a ticket. It's a bummer because it sounded fantastic..... Until the battery ran down.

Tom


----------



## iFi audio

*“Pop” goes DSD? Why does this happen?*  

 Hi all, this has been copied in from here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/pop-goes-dsd-why-does-this-happen/
  
 But as it is so brief, we have put the whole piece in here.
  

  
*Question:* Some iFi and non-iFi customers have asked – Why during DSD playback is there a “pop” sound?
 
*Short (layman) answer:* This is an inherent characteristic of DSD that is unavoidable.
*Long (technical) answer:* Please see below.

  
1. PCM can produce a true zero (silence) output in an instant. When the data stream stops, the DAC is then reset to “zero” for PCM.
2. As DSD only records the difference in level between each sample and during track changes (or a switch from PCM to DSD), the Player no longer sends DoP markers.
3. As a result, the DSD’s output levels (via DSD-DoP) of the DAC output can ‘stick’ at any possible level (almost anything but rarely zero) between the two extremes.
4. When the next song commences, the DAC suddenly receives a new DAC value (usually this new value is zero), which has no relevance to the previous sample- hence the ‘pop’.
5. The only way to reduce this ‘pop’ is to run a small period of silence during these changes. In other words, the playback software must handle this correctly and play a short silence before it stops sending DoP markers.
6. For example: JRiver v19 or higher has this under WASAPI hence no ‘pop’ between changes.





7. Another example: there is no pop when using DSD (native) under JRiver.
8. Onkyo HF Player doesn’t have this feature and hence the pop sound.
We hope you found this useful.


----------



## MLGrado

ifi audio said:


> *“Pop” goes DSD? Why does this happen?*
> 
> Hi all, this has been copied in from here:
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/pop-goes-dsd-why-does-this-happen/
> ...


 
  
 Thank you iFi.
  
 I for one can confirm number 7.   ASIO Native mode under Jriver is very effective at eliminating/reducing this pop.


----------



## MLGrado

chawya22 said:


> I'm not a basshead either but I was just curious to see if it actually worked. Subtle is good but I seriously hear no effect at all. The 3D effect is immediately apparent.  Maybe I'll shuffle through my phones and see if it becomes more apparent.


 
  
 It is there.  Very notable on some tracks, not others.    The only time I turn it off is on bass heavy tracks, where it can push things a bit over the edge.  
  
 But it is definitely not an in-your-face effect.  It comes on in a more subtle way.  And I like that.  3D effect is indeed more immediately noticeable, though.


----------



## roamling

mlgrado said:


> It is there.  Very notable on some tracks, not others.    The only time I turn it off is on bass heavy tracks, where it can push things a bit over the edge.
> 
> But it is definitely not an in-your-face effect.  It comes on in a more subtle way.  And I like that.  3D effect is indeed more immediately noticeable, though.




yes its very subtle, i am not a fan of in your face boom bass boost, but this is different. I am currently listening to some Wayne Shorter recording and its adding a bit more prominence to the contra bass without altering the overall character of the recording


----------



## john57

An Audiophile bass boost?


----------



## roamling

john57 said:


> An Audiophile bass boost?




haha, looks like it!


----------



## BillsonChang007

IMO, the XBass boost the sub-bass more which is what most headphones are lacking but not all song goes that deep thus one may not be able to notice the difference but listening to Rudimental, that switch is a must! xD


----------



## maricius

billsonchang007 said:


> IMO, the XBass boost the sub-bass more which is what most headphones are lacking but not all song goes that deep thus one may not be able to notice the difference but listening to Rudimental, that switch is a must! xD


 
  
 My thoughts exactly!!! For the mid bass, the XBass only adds a small amount of quantity. However, detail in the lower frequencies, in songs I never would have expected to, pop out (they already do without the XBass thanks to the iDSD but the XBass helps define them especially for my L2). There is definitely more going on in the lower frequencies, more than just greater quantity.


----------



## chawya22

billsonchang007 said:


> IMO, the XBass boost the sub-bass more which is what most headphones are lacking but not all song goes that deep thus one may not be able to notice the difference but listening to Rudimental, that switch is a must! xD


 
  
  


maricius said:


> My thoughts exactly!!! For the mid bass, the XBass only adds a small amount of quantity. However, detail in the lower frequencies, in songs I never would have expected to, pop out (they already do without the XBass thanks to the iDSD but the XBass helps define them especially for my L2). There is definitely more going on in the lower frequencies, more than just greater quantity.


 
 I can finally hear the XBass effect. I used Dr. Chesky's: The Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc - Track: Shake, Rattle and Roll Test. Once you get into the  ~ 90Hz  and below range, the effect gets more pronounced the lower the frequency goes. I guess my normal musical travels don't get into that range but at least now I know it does work. Very impressive.


----------



## semeniub

Not sure if this coincides with turning off all forced upsampling in Audirvana+ today, or if the micro iDSD is just settling in, but the sound is really opening up right now on my PCM files. Wow. Has anyone else noticed a difference between playing files "clean" into the micro, as opposed to ones upsampled in software?


----------



## rickyleelee

Quote:


tf1216 said:


> rickyleelee, beautiful pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Tnewell

tnewell said:


> Hello,
> 
> New member here . Been following this thread after taking delivery of the Micro DSD on Friday.
> 
> ...




I think I have found the culprit causing the problems with my Micro DSD. It was my Gemini cable!

I did a complete charge of the Micro using an IPad charger and the Blue Stock USB cable. After fully charging the Micro I put it back in my system. I got music but I was also getting noise in the form of ticks and pops. Very similar to the ticks and pops you hear on vinyl.

So I removed the IUSB and Gemini cable and plugged my Wywires USB cable directly into the Micro. Noise was gone! I then added the IUSB back into the chain but removed the Gemini and replaced it with the blue stock USB cable. Noise still gone.

The Micro is now running off the power of IUSB and appears to be functioning correctly and sounding awesome!

Not sure why my Gemini cable is acting up. It's obvious power from the IUSB was being corrupted somehow by the Gemini cable. It's weird because they worked fine with my Nano DSD. I may have tweaked one of the connectors somehow.

Anyway things appear to be good here now!

Tom


----------



## tf1216

Maybe we are in for a fun review of the Micro iDSD
  
 http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/08/19/canmania-2014-ifi-audio/#more-13101


----------



## MLGrado

tnewell said:


> I think I have found the culprit causing the problems with my Micro DSD. It was my Gemini cable!
> 
> I did a complete charge of the Micro using an IPad charger and the Blue Stock USB cable. After fully charging the Micro I put it back in my system. I got music but I was also getting noise in the form of ticks and pops. Very similar to the ticks and pops you hear on vinyl.
> 
> ...




That is very strange indeed. I have the Gemini as well as the iUSB. No issue there either.


----------



## MLGrado

semeniub said:


> Not sure if this coincides with turning off all forced upsampling in Audirvana+ today, or if the micro iDSD is just settling in, but the sound is really opening up right now on my PCM files. Wow. Has anyone else noticed a difference between playing files "clean" into the micro, as opposed to ones upsampled in software?


 
  
  
 Well, there are a thousand different opinions on upsampling and/or digital filtering.   My opinion is that less is better.  So, sending your files direct into the micro is the way I would do it.  You then have the choice of filtering in DAC.. either 'bitperfect' which does no signal processing, no upsampling, no filtering, etc before sending the data on to the hybrid delta sigma converter, or standard and minimum phase, each of which will 'oversample' all audio as it performs 'anti-imaging' filtering before sending the data to the hybrid delta sigma converter.  
  
 So, when you upsample in software, you add extra steps to what already will happen in the DAC itself.  
  
  
 All that said, experiment and settle on what sounds best to you.  
  
 Have fun
  
 Andrew


----------



## semeniub

mlgrado said:


> Well, there are a thousand different opinions on upsampling and/or digital filtering.   My opinion is that less is better.  So, sending your files direct into the micro is the way I would do it.  You then have the choice of filtering in DAC.. either 'bitperfect' which does no signal processing, no upsampling, no filtering, etc before sending the data on to the hybrid delta sigma converter, or standard and minimum phase, each of which will 'oversample' all audio as it performs 'anti-imaging' filtering before sending the data to the hybrid delta sigma converter.
> 
> So, when you upsample in software, you add extra steps to what already will happen in the DAC itself.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for that. No forced upsampling in software, bitperfect filter choice on micro is what is sounding best for now.
  
 Now for the DSD filter settings - my personal choice is extended... I found the extreme filter to just subdue the music a bit too much.


----------



## MLGrado

semeniub said:


> Thanks for that. No forced upsampling in software, bitperfect filter choice on micro is what is sounding best for now.
> 
> Now for the DSD filter settings - my personal choice is extended... I found the extreme filter to just subdue the music a bit too much.


 
  
  
 The different DSD filters have different gains.  Just a consequence of filter design.  The Extreme filter has the most attenuation.  You should be able to just turn the volume up a tick to compensate.
  
 But, the filter attenuation combined with the fact DSD average levels tend to be lower than PCM, does mean you can very well run into a gain issue, as in, not enough for some recordings.


----------



## semeniub

mlgrado said:


> The different DSD filters have different gains.  Just a consequence of filter design.  The Extreme filter has the most attenuation.  You should be able to just turn the volume up a tick to compensate.
> 
> But, the filter attenuation combined with the fact DSD average levels tend to be lower than PCM, does mean you can very well run into a gain issue, as in, not enough for some recordings.


 
 It's obvious that because of all the settings that are possible in software and on the micro, you do need to mentally keep track of things so that you don't get frustrated one time playing your favourite recordings.


----------



## blackwolf1006

silly questions. Can I use this as an AMP for my FiiO x5?


----------



## MLGrado

semeniub said:


> It's obvious that because of all the settings that are possible in software and on the micro, you do need to mentally keep track of things so that you don't get frustrated one time playing your favourite recordings.


 
  
 yup.  
  
 that said, I just leave mine in Bitpefect/Extreme and forget it.    
  
 And I have finally settled on ECO for power.  Standard was really overkill for my headphones, as it turned out.


----------



## fzman

blackwolf1006 said:


> silly questions. Can I use this as an AMP for my FiiO x5?


 
 yes, nbut you can also run a coax digital cable from the x5 into the iDSD for even better sound.  Use the mini to rca adaptor, and any good coax video/spdif cable.  Or make one yhourself or have someopne do it for you.
  
 I really like the combo of the X5 plus micro iDSD driving my viso 50's


----------



## BillsonChang007

blackwolf1006 said:


> silly questions. Can I use this as an AMP for my FiiO x5?




Yeap! There is a 3.5mm line out for X5 and 3.5mm line in for Micro iDSD at the front  

Hope it helps!
Billson xD


----------



## Turrican2

Quote: 





turrican2 said:


> So, anyone with a Micro iCan AND the Micro iDSD.....
> 
> 
> How are you finding the combination? or does the iDSD do just as well on it's own?  I guess I'll find out in a couple of days when I get mine but was curious.  Apologies if this has been mentioned, not up to speed with the thread


 
 so to answer my own question, seems the i-can and the idsd don't want to play ball.  My existing setup is squeezebox touch-->i-Dac-->i-Tube-->i-Can.  The i-DSD potentially replaces this whole rig and more...  I was curious to see if the i-tube would work well with it, so had to introduce the i-can to the loop, i.e. replace i-dac with i-dsd and it was not a happy situation, tonnes of hiss and noise.  I put the i-dsd in Direct mode.  Tried turning that off and lowering the volume but no joy using it purely as a dac.  
  
 Lots of listening to the i-dsd versus the rest of my gear coming up.  Only one can stay!!!
  
 So far the i-dsd sounds really good, really really good in fact. Currently my iFi stack is out of control (will shrink soon maybe)


----------



## semeniub

turrican2 said:


> so to answer my own question, seems the i-can and the idsd don't want to play ball.  My existing setup is squeezebox touch-->i-Dac-->i-Tube-->i-Can.  The i-DSD potentially replaces this whole rig and more...  I was curious to see if the i-tube would work well with it, so had to introduce the i-can to the loop, i.e. replace i-dac with i-dsd and it was not a happy situation, tonnes of hiss and noise.  I put the i-dsd in Direct mode.  Tried turning that off and lowering the volume but no joy using it purely as a dac.
> 
> Lots of listening to the i-dsd versus the rest of my gear coming up.  Only one can stay!!!
> 
> So far the i-dsd sounds really good, really really good in fact. I'll add a pic later of my out of control iFi stack (which will shrink soon maybe)


 
 Interesting... I had some good success using the micro iDSD as a DAC in direct mode into an iTube, and then into a preamp. This worked very well. I only have a nano iCAN to try, but I could put it into the chain instead of the preamp to see if I get the same hiss that you did. Please correct me if I've misunderstood.


----------



## parkman

Mine just arrived! Charging now. Any idea how long it takes to charge with an iPad charger and the included USB 3.0 cable? 

Perhaps quicker than 24 hours?!


----------



## MLGrado

turrican2 said:


> so to answer my own question, seems the i-can and the idsd don't want to play ball.  My existing setup is squeezebox touch-->i-Dac-->i-Tube-->i-Can.  The i-DSD potentially replaces this whole rig and more...  I was curious to see if the i-tube would work well with it, so had to introduce the i-can to the loop, i.e. replace i-dac with i-dsd and it was not a happy situation, tonnes of hiss and noise.  I put the i-dsd in Direct mode.  Tried turning that off and lowering the volume but no joy using it purely as a dac.
> 
> Lots of listening to the i-dsd versus the rest of my gear coming up.  Only one can stay!!!
> 
> So far the i-dsd sounds really good, really really good in fact. Currently my iFi stack is out of control (will shrink soon maybe)


 
  
  
 What filter setting are you using?  Try changing from Bit Perfect to another choice and see if the hiss goes away.


----------



## Turrican2

mlgrado said:


> What filter setting are you using?  Try changing from Bit Perfect to another choice and see if the hiss goes away.


 
 tried all the settings didn't seem to make a difference.  I'll probably do some more thorough testing this weekend when I have more time.


----------



## Turrican2

semeniub said:


> Interesting... I had some good success using the micro iDSD as a DAC in direct mode into an iTube, and then into a preamp. This worked very well. I only have a nano iCAN to try, but I could put it into the chain instead of the preamp to see if I get the same hiss that you did. Please correct me if I've misunderstood.


 
 I too used the nano i-dsd with the i-can and i-tube, it worked well although I much preferred the i-dac.


----------



## rickyleelee

turrican2 said:


> so to answer my own question, seems the i-can and the idsd don't want to play ball.  My existing setup is squeezebox touch-->i-Dac-->i-Tube-->i-Can.  The i-DSD potentially replaces this whole rig and more...  I was curious to see if the i-tube would work well with it, so had to introduce the i-can to the loop, i.e. replace i-dac with i-dsd and it was not a happy situation, tonnes of hiss and noise.  I put the i-dsd in Direct mode.  Tried turning that off and lowering the volume but no joy using it purely as a dac.
> 
> Lots of listening to the i-dsd versus the rest of my gear coming up.  Only one can stay!!!
> 
> So far the i-dsd sounds really good, really really good in fact. Currently my iFi stack is out of control (will shrink soon maybe)


 
I have the same Tower of Power. No hiss from my Momentums. I am happily running the micro i-DSD in the stack in as we speak. The wife likes it too - that is saying something


----------



## MLGrado

turrican2 said:


> tried all the settings didn't seem to make a difference.  I'll probably do some more thorough testing this weekend when I have more time.


 
  
 Oh okay.
  
 Are you running the Squeezebox via Coax or USB?
  
  
 Also, iFi customer support is grade A+ open a ticket and I am sure if it can be fixed, it will be.


----------



## Turrican2

rickyleelee said:


> [COLOR=3E454C]I have the same Tower of Power. No hiss from my Momentums. I am happily running the micro i-DSD in the stack in as we speak. The wife likes it too - that is saying something[/COLOR]




Scratch that.....just me being an idiot. I failed to check which ports I removed the rubber covers from, I was using the s/Pdif port and the right rca doh!!

All good now, sounds lush.


----------



## MLGrado

turrican2 said:


> Scratch that.....just me being an idiot. I failed to check which ports I removed the rubber covers from, I was using the s/Pdif port and the right rca doh!!
> 
> All good now, sounds lush.


 
  
 AH! 
  
 Good deal!.  
  
 Enjoy.  
  
 At the moment I am listening to Kazuki Yamada conduct Bizet on Pentatone (Native DSD recording via Polyhymnia).
  
 Amazing listening experience with iFi products.


----------



## MLGrado

Okay, so all the headphones I have tired so far are of the low ohm variety, thus I have not even begun to stress the headphone amp in the iDSD. 
  
  
 I am contemplating buying a 'flagship' headphone.  The Beyerdynamic Tesla T1.  It is 600 ohms.  Can anyone recount their experience with the Micro and higher ohm headphones?
  
 I am positive that it will sound exemplary, but some first hand accounts are always an enjoyable read.


----------



## parkman

Guys, my blue light went off after nearly 4 hours of charging. Is it full? Should I use it and drain the battery or just wait?

(I haven't turned it on yet)


----------



## Stereolab42

Anyone else getting a massive turn-on pop through the headphone amp section? The annoying part is this also occurs after you first try to play a track after the Micro resumes from sleep... and it goes to sleep even on USB Power after 15 minutes! (Why was auto-sleep on USB power made non-defeatable? Terrible decision.) RCA outputs appear clean though. I have a ticket open on this but so far no answer.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I ordered one today    I should have for Friday . looking to see how powerfull it is  any try HE6 cans  .


----------



## pearljam50000

alrainbow said:


> I ordered one today    I should have for Friday . looking to see how powerfull it is  any try HE6 cans  .


 
 Congrats!
 Could you please compare it to the Hugo , and also try it with the HD800? Thanks.


----------



## MLGrado

stereolab42 said:


> Anyone else getting a massive turn-on pop through the headphone amp section? The annoying part is this also occurs after you first try to play a track after the Micro resumes from sleep... and it goes to sleep even on USB Power after 15 minutes! (Why was auto-sleep on USB power made non-defeatable? Terrible decision.) RCA outputs appear clean though. I have a ticket open on this but so far no answer.


 
  
 On turn on and off, yes, a very slight pop.  Nothing major.  Massive is definitely not how I would describe it here.   I am not sure what you mean about going to sleep?  Mine once turned on stays in a ready state at all times.  Never experience the turn on pop, well, except for turn off and on.  
  
  
 To avoid it, I just turn on before plugging my headphones in.  Once on, I leave it on.  Never happens again.


----------



## MLGrado

So I continue to experiment.  
  
 My Grado RS1i's are sensitive phones, and as such even in eco mode some programming requires a lot of volume attenuation.  Sometimes getting really close to the point where the volume control zeros out, somewhere between 8 and 9 o'clock on the volume pot.
  
  
 So I have been trying out the different IEM sensitivity settings, even though I am obviously not using an IEM 
  
 In the middle setting, I can actually use Turbo power mode with my headphones.  Typical listening is around 12 'oclock, more or less.  I have to say, I think I like it in this mode!  To my ear there may be a touch more presence and fullness to instruments, especially in the lower midrange.  It sounds a bit more 'fleshed out' and natural.  
  
 So, even though those sensitivity settings seemed to have been aimed at super sensitive IEM's, don't be afraid to play around with them, regardless of headphone!
  
  
 EDIT.. okay, well, maybe Turbo is still a bit much on some recordings!!! LOL.  But, it works really, really well for some!  In the end, I am liking the higher power modes combined with lower sensitivity settings... actually, I think this is the BEST my iDSD has yet sounded!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha it's nice to ask and I am going to for myself. 
But please keep in mind I am locked out of the main Hugo thread for saying what I feel. And I line the Hugo and use it daily. 
It's pretty good but some feel it's the best or should be said as such all the time. 
So when I do and hear it. Pm me and I will say how I feel but post your self. 
My intent is not to hurt vendors or product. I really do mean this but some others apparently do not like my views or suggestions. 

Al


----------



## john57

mlgrado said:


> On turn on and off, yes, a very slight pop.  Nothing major.  Massive is definitely not how I would describe it here.   I am not sure what you mean about going to sleep?  Mine once turned on stays in a ready state at all times.  Never experience the turn on pop, well, except for turn off and on.
> 
> 
> To avoid it, I just turn on before plugging my headphones in.  Once on, I leave it on.  Never happens again.


 
 What the op is talking about is is the sleep(Hibernate) mode of the Micro which is set for 15 minutes on USB power or a few minutes on battery (not tested) when no signal is being send to the DAC. The micro will turn off and the LED will go out. This is to conserve battery power of the micro or USB power from a remote battery operated device. The OP is stating why have this for USB power.


----------



## Stereolab42

john57 said:


> What the op is talking about is is the sleep(Hibernate) mode of the Micro which is set for 15 minutes on USB power or a few minutes on battery (not tested) when no signal is being send to the DAC. The micro will turn off and the LED will go out. This is to conserve battery power of the micro or USB power from a remote battery operated device. The OP is stating why have this for USB power.


 
  
 Yup. The undefeatable sleep is pointless if one is using the Micro as an always-connected DAC for a plugged-in PC, which is what I think the primary use case would be, given the Nano is much more portable. Not having a turn-on muting relay is disappointing in-and-of itself, especially considering that Schiit now has these on much cheaper amps... but having to go through the turn-on dance every time you're away from your desk for 15 minutes is unacceptable. (The pop is loud enough, on full-size headphones, that I'm tempted to measure it with a multimeter to see if it's a damaging amount of voltage). Luckily I'm not getting this through the RCA outputs in direct mode, so no worries if you're just using the Micro as a DAC for another amp (which is what I'm planning to do).


----------



## john57

mlgrado said:


> Okay, so all the headphones I have tired so far are of the low ohm variety, thus I have not even begun to stress the headphone amp in the iDSD.
> 
> 
> I am contemplating buying a 'flagship' headphone.  The Beyerdynamic Tesla T1.  It is 600 ohms.  Can anyone recount their experience with the Micro and higher ohm headphones?
> ...


 

 I have the Beyerdynamic Tesla T70 250 ohms and it is a comfortable good headphone. The T1 will have a bigger soundstage as heard from the last RMAF show. I had to turn the gain up a tiny bit more with the T70. I have not tried the Turbo mode on any of the headphones including my Fostex planner but that is for another day. Having said this, the headphone that really shines on my micro is my Sony 7520 which meets my definition of a "flagship" headphone. The 7520 has clarity and the transparent quality that my Stax has. My Stax does have a bit more extended treble and a falter bass.  The 7520 bass is bit hype up but did not bleed into the midrange. The micro just made the midrange on the 7520 the best I ever heard. The voices are so natural and realistic. My Stax is not as quite natural as my 7520 because I am more limited by the Stax amp that is needed to drive them. Just another option to consider.


----------



## MLGrado

john57 said:


> What the op is talking about is is the sleep(Hibernate) mode of the Micro which is set for 15 minutes on USB power or a few minutes on battery (not tested) when no signal is being send to the DAC. The micro will turn off and the LED will go out. This is to conserve battery power of the micro or USB power from a remote battery operated device. The OP is stating why have this for USB power.


 
  
 Okay, i had actually never noticed that..


----------



## MLGrado

stereolab42 said:


> Yup. The undefeatable sleep is pointless if one is using the Micro as an always-connected DAC for a plugged-in PC, which is what I think the primary use case would be, given the Nano is much more portable. Not having a turn-on muting relay is disappointing in-and-of itself, especially considering that Schiit now has these on much cheaper amps... but having to go through the turn-on dance every time you're away from your desk for 15 minutes is unacceptable. (The pop is loud enough, on full-size headphones, that I'm tempted to measure it with a multimeter to see if it's a damaging amount of voltage). Luckily I'm not getting this through the RCA outputs in direct mode, so no worries if you're just using the Micro as a DAC for another amp (which is what I'm planning to do).


 
  
 I understand your concern completely.  
  
 But again, on my headphones, it is barely notable.  So much, that I had never even noticed the sleep mode issue.


----------



## jhwalker

mlgrado said:


> I understand your concern completely.
> 
> But again, on my headphones, it is barely notable.  So much, that I had never even noticed the sleep mode issue.


 

 Same here - I mean, you just rotate the knob to turn it on, so the volume would be very low when this "massive" power-on pop occurs.  I hear what you're talking about, but it occurs within a second or so after I turn the unit on, and the volume is very low at that point, so just sounds like (basically) putting the needle down on an LP; i.e., a slight pop, but certainly nothing to worry about.
  
 I've never noticed the sleep mode thing, either - either mine doesn't do that, or my listening habits are such that I never hit the power down condition.


----------



## pearljam50000

alrainbow said:


> Hahahaha it's nice to ask and I am going to for myself.
> But please keep in mind I am locked out of the main Hugo thread for saying what I feel. And I line the Hugo and use it daily.
> It's pretty good but some feel it's the best or should be said as such all the time.
> So when I do and hear it. Pm me and I will say how I feel but post your self.
> ...


 
 I trust your honesty.
 And i think everyone should be able to say whatever they think on head- fi without being locked out of threads.


----------



## MLGrado

jhwalker said:


> Same here - I mean, you just rotate the knob to turn it on, so the volume would be very low when this "massive" power-on pop occurs.  I hear what you're talking about, but it occurs within a second or so after I turn the unit on, and the volume is very low at that point, so just sounds like (basically) putting the needle down on an LP; i.e., a slight pop, but certainly nothing to worry about.
> 
> I've never noticed the sleep mode thing, either - either mine doesn't do that, or my listening habits are such that I never hit the power down condition.


 
  
 EDITED... Sorry.. see post below.


----------



## MLGrado

AHA!
  
 I get it now.  Just witnessed it go into sleep mode.  The light turned blue. Yes, the same pop as happens when turning on/off. 
  
 Interesting, I had never noticed this before!  Indeed, if this pop is very loud for you, then it would be a concern.  But again, it is almost unworth mentioning here.  Just a very, very low level blip, indeed very much like a needle drop on an album.


----------



## jexby

mlgrado said:


> AHA!
> 
> Just a very, very low level blip, indeed very much like a needle drop on an album.




OMG even the iFi audio effects are analog sounding! Sublime.


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> Hahahaha it's nice to ask and I am going to for myself.
> But please keep in mind I am locked out of the main Hugo thread for saying what I feel. And I line the Hugo and use it daily.
> It's pretty good but some feel it's the best or should be said as such all the time.
> So when I do and hear it. Pm me and I will say how I feel but post your self.
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi Al.
  
 Feel free to express your opinions here!  I actually just got off the phone with who I believe is a mutual friend.   He had some interesting things to say!!  I hope you feel free to express interesting things as well!! 
  
 Welcome!
  
 Andrew


----------



## MLGrado

jexby said:


> OMG even the iFi audio effects are analog sounding! Sublime.


 
  
 HMMM... i never thought of the blip as sublime, but hey whatever!  lol... rather actually, innocuous!  
  
 That said, if others are having a problem that isn't so innocuous, I believe them.  Opening a ticket with iFi is of course, the thing to do


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Can someone confirm it working with onkyo hf and the camera adaptor for apple. I currently use that setup a hugo. 
It's already ordered anyway but would like to know. 
 Please keep something in mind. I have no claim to fame and I am not pro reviewer 
And beyond that I have had enough headaches here because of things I have pointed out. We all must remember this about me or others who post views and make claims .
Beyond that this site and all,others must have venders to pay the bills. And even though this conflicts sometimes no one here has ever told me I could not post my views. 
But my arguing my beliefs is what I feel I do wrong. So when I receive it , I will post something but again it's just a choice as in mine . 
But thanks all for asking and understanding me or trying too. 

Al


----------



## Stereolab42

mlgrado said:


> HMMM... i never thought of the blip as sublime, but hey whatever!  lol... rather actually, innocuous!
> 
> That said, if others are having a problem that isn't so innocuous, I believe them.  Opening a ticket with iFi is of course, the thing to do


 
  
 Yes, I have a ticket pending. The pop is ear-splitting for me, regardless of volume setting or any other settings (except for the IEM sensitivity switch, but I'm running full-size headphones, not IEMs). My terrible luck with DACs continues, I guess.


----------



## MLGrado

stereolab42 said:


> Yes, I have a ticket pending. The pop is ear-splitting for me, regardless of volume setting or any other settings (except for the IEM sensitivity switch, but I'm running full-size headphones, not IEMs). My terrible luck with DACs continues, I guess.


 
  
 yeah, ear splitting would be a problem.  Nothing like that here.  
  
 unfortunate, but things like this happen with the very first run off the product line.  
  
 The fortunate thing is iFi has top notch support. Good luck!


----------



## jexby

alrainbow said:


> Can someone confirm it working with onkyo hf and the camera adaptor for apple. I currently use that setup a hugo.
> 
> Al




Yup, my iPhone and iPad with Onkyo HD and CCK cable to micro iDSD works great.
That is my nightly setup.
Plays DSD files well, believe Onkyo can only up sample PCM to 192kHz.


----------



## MLGrado

I have been continuing my experiment with sensitivity and power settings.  
  
 I have settled on "High Sensitivity" and "Normal" power for the headphone output.  
  
 The result is a bit more presence and fullness in the midrange, and notably tighter and punchier bass.  
  
  
 If you are feeling that the headphone out is a little light in the bass dept, I encourage you to try higher power settings countered by "High" or "Ultra" sensitivity, if necessary.
  
 This is even if you are using full size headphones.  I believe that I am getting the very best sound out of my Grado RS1's with the above settings.  Of course results will vary wildly with different headphones, but, I suggest you give it a try!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks man I wanted to read that. Very cool. Regarding the up sampling I am of the club not to. Pcm and dsd sound different period. I like for me things as hay are. 
I did try a few times to ups ample for myself and by request for me to tell them what I hear. It's not good for me. Pcm is hard compared to dsd being a little fluffy. For what it's worth some recording just sounds as is. Although I am a big fan of dsd , up sampling pcm just kills it for me. 
Does anyone have a aps server and running the DAC in this thread . I have a few of them it makes an amazing improvement in the dacs .
Also does the ifi dsd micro have a analog input ??

Al


----------



## john57

alrainbow said:


> Also does the ifi dsd micro have a analog input ??
> 
> Al


 
 Yes it does on the front between the two switches 3.5mm A real Swiss army type of a DAC.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

A friend told me this DAC was designed by asking question to groups . Is this true ? It dies to have all the stuff , where most miss something or Another. I was also told in dsd it's a low pass filter as it bypasses the chips inside for pcm ? 

Al


----------



## BillsonChang007

Yes, the Micro iDSD is done based on a Crowd Design


----------



## ALRAINBOW

For the price and features this device is the jam for sure. Now as I await the shipment to arrive and want to listen to it. 
Even if it's close to some other dacs I own and like this is a big win. Does this DAC do pcm better or dsd. Or is it close both ways. Some devices just play one or the other better. Not sure why but it's clear to me. In own a if I battery usb device . Before I built the caps it did make a improvement I could hear easy. 

Al


----------



## Mudshark

mlgrado said:


> Okay, so all the headphones I have tired so far are of the low ohm variety, thus I have not even begun to stress the headphone amp in the iDSD.
> 
> 
> I am contemplating buying a 'flagship' headphone.  The Beyerdynamic Tesla T1.  It is 600 ohms.  Can anyone recount their experience with the Micro and higher ohm headphones?
> ...


 
  
 Hi, I received my iDSD Micro the other day and have been testing it out with different cans.  It drives my Beyer DT-990/600's like a CHAMP!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Shot in the dark. Anyone trying hifiman HE6 
Headphones. ???

Al


----------



## BillsonChang007

mudshark said:


> Hi, I received my iDSD Micro the other day and have been testing it out with different cans.  It drives my Beyer DT-990/600's like a CHAMP!




If it can drives the HE-6 as mentioned by iFi, sure it can driver those Beyer! xD thanks for sharing!


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> A friend told me this DAC was designed by asking question to groups . Is this true ? It dies to have all the stuff , where most miss something or Another. I was also told in dsd it's a low pass filter as it bypasses the chips inside for pcm ?
> 
> Al


 
  
 Yes, the chip it uses bypasses all PCM processing.  DSD is simply low-pass filtered.  There is no conversion to multi-bit 'anything'.
  
 To get super technical, the Burr Brown DSD1793 is a segment dac, that uses a delta sigma modulator for the lower 18 bits of data, and a 64 level thermometer code 'true PCM' Dac for the top 6 bits.  When DSD mode is selected, the 64 level thermometer code portion of the DAC acts as a low pass FIR filter for the DSD signal.  Different combinations of the 64 switches produce different filter settings.  Dynamic element matching is probably used, of course, to even out any inconsistencies.  
  
  
 In the end, is really isn't all that different than say, the Lampizator.  Difference being, Lampizator does this with all discrete parts, while the iDSD way is silicon chip based.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I really like DSD best but PCM done well us also very good. 
My lampi and the msb do PCM fantastic showing the difrence between them as te lampi is more magical. 
May be the tubes but given the price it's damn working marvel. 
DSD is magic by itself and just sounds best 
Some other dacs I have heard hurt DSD and favor PCM. 
I do not know why but it's easy to hear though if you know how good DSD is. 
FPGA dacs seem to be in this group. 
My argument and my removal from Hugo. 
Lmao. 
Al


----------



## MLGrado

HEADS UP!
  
 For those of you without a lot of DSD content, or who are looking for some material just to 'give it a try', NativeDSD.com is offering a daily free download.  They also have several nice demo files under the 'just listen' label.
  
  
 NativeDSD.com specializes in real DSD recordings, from start to finish.  All mixing is done in analog at the recording session, and all post processing is done on either a Sonoma or Pyramix workstation in what is called 'Render mode'.  As long as edits are kept to things like crossfades and level changes, the file stays in pure DSD except for the duration of the edits.  (The edits on Sonoma are in DSD-wide, the edits in Pyramix are in DXD)
  
 So the end result is recordings with typically only a few seconds worth of processing.  
  
  
 Worth checking out!
  
  
 EDIT....
  
 For those of you who are total nerds about these things, like me, here is the Merging Pyramix production guide for SACD/DSD.  Interesting reading!!
  
 http://www.merging.com/uploads/assets/Merging_pdfs/Pyramix_6_1/Mastering/SACD%20Production%20Guide.pdf


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> I really like DSD best but PCM done well us also very good.
> My lampi and the msb do PCM fantastic showing the difrence between them as te lampi is more magical.
> May be the tubes but given the price it's damn working marvel.
> DSD is magic by itself and just sounds best
> ...


 
  
 I agree.  PCM done well is just fine.  The problem is, there is a lot of bad PCM out there!  The iDSD does no injustice to PCM.  As a matter of fact, I am finding new pleasure in listening to my PCM collection...


----------



## semeniub

If you can find an older version of the Korg Audiogate software (ver. 2.3.3), you can experiment in converting your own PCM files to DSD64 and DSD128. Not as pure as getting something start to finish in DSD from NativeDSD.com, but fun to experiment with anyways.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am liking this more and more. To many people right one thing off and that's it. 
This us not true in my world. I had a frind over a few weeks back. He us a DSD guy and has shown me DSD is very good to have. 
The first track I played for him on my B7 was red book ref of mine. His face glowed as he ask me DSD. 
I laughed and said no it's PCM. My reasoning was the B7 is magic in both PCM and DSD and I wanted to prove this to him. 
In the end DSD does win but PCM giid PCM is magic too. 
This new DAC sounds really good 
Al


----------



## semeniub

mlgrado said:


> I agree.  PCM done well is just fine.  The problem is, there is a lot of bad PCM out there!  The iDSD does no injustice to PCM.  As a matter of fact, I am finding new pleasure in listening to my PCM collection...


 
 So true, the micro iDSD can play a well-recorded PCM file just sublime.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have it saved 
I can put in drop box if need be.


----------



## rickyleelee

alrainbow said:


> I really like DSD best but PCM done well us also very good.
> My lampi and the msb do PCM fantastic showing the difrence between them as te lampi is more magical.
> May be the tubes but given the price it's damn working marvel.
> DSD is magic by itself and just sounds best
> ...


 
I like blondes AND brunettes (DSD+PCM). I just do not understand the fascination to say one is better than the other. It depends on the girl (recording) as much as the guy (DAC). It takes two to tango. I hope this does not dumb down to become a DSD vs PCM thread.


----------



## MLGrado

rickyleelee said:


> I like blondes AND brunettes (DSD+PCM). I just do not understand the fascination to say one is better than the other. It depends on the girl (recording) as much as the guy (DAC). It takes two to tango. I hope this does not dumb down to become a DSD vs PCM thread.


 
  
 Discussing legitimate strengths and weaknesses of a format is perfectly fine by me.  Problems only occur when people start taking things personally.  These discussions start losing any intellectual honesty and basically devolve into shouting matches.  Unfortunately, it isn't only the 'laypeople' who are guilty.  
  
 In the context of the iDSD, I think weighing its performance in one format vs another is justified, if only because one of its major selling points, and of course its namesake, is native DSD decoding and playback.  
  
 I agree that much more than the format comes into play.  That said, there are some very specific attributes of DSD that give it a characteristic 'sound'.  And I enjoy this sound, and often seek it out, especially if the master file is in DSD.  
  
 I have some sublime recordings in PCM, as well.  And I enjoy them thoroughly.  
  
 The beauty of the iDSD is its ability to play back either format with high fidelity.


----------



## semeniub

rickyleelee said:


> I like blondes AND brunettes (DSD+PCM). I just do not understand the fascination to say one is better than the other. It depends on the girl (recording) as much as the guy (DAC). It takes two to tango. I hope this does not dumb down to become a DSD vs PCM thread.


 
 Both formats sound really good on this DAC - so I doubt that it becomes DSD vs PCM. Everyone gets to enjoy their music, however they like, and not feel like they are missing out on something I would say.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I wish I could do a consise post like that. I complex agree with you. 
Al


----------



## parkman

I just wish there was more DSD out there I could try. I only have two DSD albums, and they aren't exactly my favorite artists. So it's tough to compare DSD to PCM to me, because 99.9% of songs I have, are mere 44.1khz PCM. 
I'm gonna start checking out NativeDSD though. Maybe I'll come across something I like!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I will,post three of the best dsd albums in know. They may not be what you like and this was the case for me. It's so damn good im leered to love it. Great music and great recordings are mostly different things. But as indi just learn to,love more types. I am 57 years old and from the head bang error . I have KEARNS to love some disco as it's just recorded great , same for M j. But beyond this is music I just nec
Ver would have bought if not for the fact it a just sound as good as gets. Although ifs not my genre. An example is pink Floyd love the music but there is no excellent recordings. 

Al


----------



## wisnon

Try Opus 3 samplers (they are cheap and excellently recorded) as well as HDTT.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now that you are offering a participant. Post a link to opus 3 dsd 3. Dsd128 a must. 

Next something from acoustic sounds as in Elvis stereo 57. 

Ther a re a few others. I can post later when I have time. But it's good to show. Link. 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

http://shop.dsdfile.com/2014/01/15/opus3-dsd-showcase-3/

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/85509/Elvis_Presley-Stereo_57_Essential_Elvis_Volume_2-45_RPM_Vinyl_Record
this elvis is expensive but well worth evey dime . 

opus 1 ,2 or 3 are all great .

al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

i have a ifi battery usb device and there gemini cable do i need it with this ifif dsd micro . i thought it had one inside ??
al


----------



## parkman

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check them out! 

Quick question guys, I have LCD-X's, but I seem to find enough power for me at the volumes I listen to in ECO mode even. Is there any negative in terms of sound quality with using eco over normal or turbo mode? Audeze recommends at least 1w of power to get the most out of your headphones, but honestly I like being able to more finely adjust the volume in ECO mode, even though you're only getting 250mw.(with normal mode I can hardly move the volume nob before it's too loud for me) Is it possible musical dynamics could potentially be compromised using only 250mw with LCD-X's? Or is that perfectly subjective based on desired output volume? 

Any opinions on that? 

Thanks!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

i do not own it , but i feel its subjective to you. if you have other forms of amps use them . and do a comparison in preamp mode and amp mode from the ifi. there could be something but might not be enough to go crazy over. as i do not know how they do the volume control in the unit. post results we all want to know. on my hibino hdpr10 some say it matters . not with any of my ciem,s and the hibino did headphones good but not the hd800. it drove therm loud but i never liked them with it . it could be just the sound of the hibino .
al


----------



## wisnon

alrainbow said:


> i have a ifi battery usb device and there gemini cable do i need it with this ifif dsd micro . i thought it had one inside ??
> al


 
 No, it hs an iPurifier inside. This is like the Aubisque filter.
  
 The iUSB is a power regenerator that isolates the computer dirty power coming via USB. The iPurifier can be used along with the iUSB Power.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks so I will not sell it . 
Al


----------



## iFi audio

*SmartPower®: Please feed the Meaty Monster (part 1)*

  


 Some of you have asked our tech support about the how to fully-charge the micro iDSD from the get go.

  
Short Answer:
 The micro iDSD manual covers the lion’s share of charging eventualities. All that it requires is connection to a suitable USB power source and left alone until the BLUE led is extinguished (length depends upon battery %). Thereafter, it is ready to play music.
  
 If however for any reason the micro iDSD never reaches this state, the battery is likely to be operating on an empty tank – hence the various LED states reported.
  
  
Long Answer:

 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/
  
 With pdf for download.
  
 If you have any queries, please open a support ticket: http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## iFi audio

*Orico High-Power USB Hub (Part 2)*
One sure way to feed the Meaty Monster 
  

 Some of you have asked us via PM or support ticket about recommending a high-power USB charger. Well, there are "quite a few" out there but nonetheless, we did a group test and found this one to be the best and also most ubiquitous.


  
*Short Answer:*
 With the micro iDSD switched OFF, the standard USB port will take approximately 24 hours to charge a micro iDSD from 0% (BLUE led lit) to 100% (BLUE led no longer lit).
 But for those wishing to not wait so long, we have tested a number of high-power USB hubs.

  
 We have settled on this, the Orico hub model: ORICO UCHA-20W (it is widely available around the world)


  
*Long Answer:*

  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/orico-high-power-usb-hub-one-sure-way-to-feed-the-meaty-monster/
 (to download the full pdf version)
  

  
 We hope you found this useful.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Many thanks for the heads up, iFi!


----------



## Krutsch

ifi audio said:


> Some of you have asked us via PM or support ticket about *recommending a high-power USB charger*. Well, there are "quite a few" out there but nonetheless, we did a group test and found this one to be the best and also most ubiquitous.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip and sorry if this is a dumb question: will the iUSBPower serve the same function?


----------



## wisnon

Nope, the iUSB charger is a power regenerator/splitter/isolater for the signal coming from a dirty computer. The other stuff above is just a high speed charger.


----------



## rickyleelee

billsonchang007 said:


> Many thanks for the heads up, iFi!


 
Okay - so who has not fully-charged their micro iDSD? And reported Encounters of the Third Kind? It wasnt me


----------



## semeniub

XBass feature - just listening to Free's Mr. Big from Fire and Water album, and with XBass engaged it just sounds really full and rich.


----------



## MLGrado

parkman said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check them out!
> 
> Quick question guys, I have LCD-X's, but I seem to find enough power for me at the volumes I listen to in ECO mode even. Is there any negative in terms of sound quality with using eco over normal or turbo mode? Audeze recommends at least 1w of power to get the most out of your headphones, but honestly I like being able to more finely adjust the volume in ECO mode, even though you're only getting 250mw.(with normal mode I can hardly move the volume nob before it's too loud for me) Is it possible musical dynamics could potentially be compromised using only 250mw with LCD-X's? Or is that perfectly subjective based on desired output volume?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I do find that the higher gain/ power settings sound better with my headphones.  I have to use the sensitivity settings, though, to lower the overall gain to an acceptable level, or else there is too much gain for my headphones.  The feature is directed at IEM's.  Well, mine are obviously not in ear monitors, but sensitive and easy to drive, none the less, and changing the sensitivity setting allows me to use the higher gain modes.  
  
 But, yes, I do believe with my Grados, the sound is fuller, especially in the bass, and more punchy and controlled.  But, this is an area (amplification) where I know little.  Whatever is going on internally, though, it seems to contribute to better sound with my headphones.  One thing I am more sure of, though, is that with the extra headroom for loud passages, I can crank it up more without feeling that the amp is running out of juice.  For example, powerful transients in classical recordings.  
  
 Then again, it could be all in my head (is that a pun?  oops.. sorry) but, I don't think so.  I really think there can be a noticeable difference depending on your headphones.  Actually, this level of flexibility is almost unheard of.  You have so much control with the iDSD headphone output.  The input and output gain/power settings are so tweakable.  So much, that I can't imagine any headphone available not being driven right in its sweet spot.  Of course, that is if you take the time to experiment and set it up just right..


----------



## RadioWonder737

*New iFi iRack... With iFi Micro iDSD and iFi iUSB Power... iFi iUSB Power sounds amazing...*


----------



## MLGrado

radiowonder737 said:


> *New iFi iRack... With iFi Micro iDSD and iFi iUSB Power... iFi iUSB Power sounds amazing...*


 
 nice.
  
 I love the iRack.  Looking good.  Actually, looks like mine!  I like how you have routed the gemini through an open bottom slot.  I may do the same...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have to say. I have both PC s. Now that I have bought the DSD micro. 
And I really do not plan on a desktop. Setup. But damn that looks fantastic. It's a must have even if you don't want one. 
Great photos. How much is the rack anyway. And I assume the plexi was made custom ??
Al


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> I have to say. I have both PC s. Now that I have bought the DSD micro.
> And I really do not plan on a desktop. Setup. But damn that looks fantastic. It's a must have even if you don't want one.
> Great photos. How much is the rack anyway. And I assume the plexi was made custom ??
> Al


 
  
 I believe it was custom made per iFi's specs, yes.
  
 The Rack is $100, If I remember correctly.  Yes, it is a very nice way to display your iFi gear


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea. By looks it's 100 out if 100. The RCA cables they come with it. ??
Al


----------



## Wildcatsare1

alrainbow said:


> I ordered one today    I should have for Friday . looking to see how powerfull it is  any try HE6 cans  .




Al, would love to hear your thoughts regarding the iDSD. VS. The Hugo?!?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I know and I will post it when I get the I DSD 
But keep in mind the Hugo does not do DSD good. 
It clearly is for PCM. 
Apparently it's the same with the ps audio DS 
IT too does PCM much better than DSD. 
I think it's the upsaming and FPGA thing they both do. 
Even though one does DSD up sampling and the other PCM up sampling 
Neither do DSD as good as PCM. 
Even with my all out caps on batteries win SER 2012 and AO 
As it improves both well it's still the same result. With PCM and DSD. 
But I will post something. 
Al


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^Al, look forward to reading your impressions!


----------



## MLGrado

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^Al, look forward to reading your impressions!


 
  
 Maybe some one will show up with a Hugo to the Nashville meet, then we can do our own comparo!  Hmmmm... surely someone close by has one and is willing to come on down!


----------



## MLGrado

After spending some time spinning some new vinyl finds on my $30 garage sale find Technics turntable (which, by the way, gives my digital setup a run for the money!  Not that this is a bad thing.  On the contrary, it is the best sounding $30 I have ever spent.  Several hundred dollars worth of sound, at least when combined with a nearly brand new Shure M97xE cartridge I found gathering dust in my 'junk' storage.)
  
  
 But, I have returned to the digital side of things for the time being,  
  
 and, oh, how 'analog' things still sound.  On the iDSD Micro, cymbals sound like they did over on the vinyl setup.  Smooth, shimmering, with nary a hint of hardness or digital etching or ringing.  In either PCM or DSD.   
  
 I continue to be impressed with the sound quality of this product.  If it were not for the fact that there is an iDSD mini desktop DAC on the coming soon table, I might be done for quite a while with DAC shopping.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

mlgrado said:


> Maybe some one will show up with a Hugo to the Nashville meet, then we can do our own comparo!  Hmmmm... surely someone close by has one and is willing to come on down!


 

 Amen, though I haven't heard anything about a Hugo at the Meet, maybe Jay will pick one up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!


----------



## semeniub

mlgrado said:


> After spending some time spinning some new vinyl finds on my $30 garage sale find Technics turntable (which, by the way, gives my digital setup a run for the money!  Not that this is a bad thing.  On the contrary, it is the best sounding $30 I have ever spent.  Several hundred dollars worth of sound, at least when combined with a nearly brand new Shure M97xE cartridge I found gathering dust in my 'junk' storage.)
> 
> 
> But, I have returned to the digital side of things for the time being,
> ...


 
 Try playing some good quality needledrops through the Micro if you have them, truly impressive.


----------



## MLGrado

semeniub said:


> Try playing some good quality needledrops through the Micro if you have them, truly impressive.


 
 yeah, I do have a couple!
  
 you are right!


----------



## rickyleelee

mlgrado said:


> yeah, I do have a couple!
> 
> you are right!


 
What do you mean by needledrops? Just inquisitive.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Playing vinyl records


----------



## maricius

mlgrado said:


> I do find that the higher gain/ power settings sound better with my headphones.  I have to use the sensitivity settings, though, to lower the overall gain to an acceptable level, or else there is too much gain for my headphones.  The feature is directed at IEM's.  Well, mine are obviously not in ear monitors, but sensitive and easy to drive, none the less, and changing the sensitivity setting allows me to use the higher gain modes.
> 
> But, yes, I do believe with my Grados, the sound is fuller, especially in the bass, and more punchy and controlled.  But, this is an area (amplification) where I know little.  Whatever is going on internally, though, it seems to contribute to better sound with my headphones.  One thing I am more sure of, though, is that with the extra headroom for loud passages, I can crank it up more without feeling that the amp is running out of juice.  For example, powerful transients in classical recordings.
> 
> Then again, it could be all in my head (is that a pun?  oops.. sorry) but, I don't think so.  I really think there can be a noticeable difference depending on your headphones.  Actually, this level of flexibility is almost unheard of.  You have so much control with the iDSD headphone output.  The input and output gain/power settings are so tweakable.  So much, that I can't imagine any headphone available not being driven right in its sweet spot.  Of course, that is if you take the time to experiment and set it up just right..


 
   
 I should be using Eco mode + Off (iEMatch) but I instead use Normal mode + High Sensitivity with my Fidelio L2. I thought I was the only one who'd do something like this. 
  
 I demoed an LCD-2 today at the store. I tried using Turbo mode but it would have to be on Ultra Sensitivity for it to be at listening levels. However, there was a noticeable distortion. I swapped into Normal mode with iEMatch on Off. The sound was just lovely. In individual aspects coming from my L2, I wouldn't say it was a complete upgrade though it was surely a more cohesive sound.


----------



## RadioWonder737

mlgrado said:


> I believe it was custom made per iFi's specs, yes.
> 
> The Rack is $100, If I remember correctly.  Yes, it is a very nice way to display your iFi gear


 
 Avatar Acoustics is selling it on Amazon for $149 and including 3 Pairs of Upgraded RCA Cables...
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K2O2HSW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
Product Features  
Non-magnetic stainless steel pillars with micro-vibration control
Included 3 sets of upgraded RCA interconnects
Resonance-damped Organic Glass shelves
Organic rubber 'O' rings
Precision-machined spikes with matching cups


----------



## wisnon

alrainbow said:


> Playing vinyl records


 
 And then recording them in DSD64 oe 128 for later DSD Dac playback.


----------



## MLGrado

radiowonder737 said:


> Avatar Acoustics is selling it on Amazon for $149 and including 3 Pairs of Upgraded RCA Cables...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K2O2HSW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah!  Well, that is certainly a different little package than when I bought it a couple months ago from Avatar (the North America iFi distributor)..  It was sans the RCA cables...


----------



## MLGrado

maricius said:


> I should be using Eco mode + Off (iEMatch) but I instead use Normal mode + High Sensitivity with my Fidelio L2. I thought I was the only one who'd do something like this.
> 
> I demoed an LCD-2 today at the store. I tried using Turbo mode but it would have to be on Ultra Sensitivity for it to be at listening levels. However, there was a noticeable distortion. I swapped into Normal mode with iEMatch on Off. The sound was just lovely. In individual aspects coming from my L2, I wouldn't say it was a complete upgrade though it was surely a more cohesive sound.


 
  
 Yeah, every headphone has such different gain/power needs!  The Micro really lets you dial it in!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The ifif approach to volume control is a very good idea. 
As mist volume implantation looses bits. So having the gain changed allows us to select a higher resolution less loss approach. 
I am not sure how the volume is done but it's great idea. Again a damn well thought out product. 
I had a few dacs that the volume was a flaw in design 
And with a good system or high detail headphone the loss could be heard 
Al


----------



## MLGrado

Been a good morning listening to the iDSD!  Sometimes I need to just lay off the forums, and listen.  Otherwise, I might go crazy!
  
 Speaking of which, let me say that Head-fi is a joy of a place.  I go over to other sites, and the 'atmosphere' is so different.   Let me just say I don't do as many facepalms over here!  
  
  
 Speaking of a facepalm, and related to my protracted abstinence from other enthusiast sites, I want to speak about the BitPerfect filter setting a bit more.  I had gone into some detail in an earlier thread, but I think it is worth repeating.  
  
 BitPerfect.  What the heck does that mean?  Well, in this case it is iFi's marketing term for Non-Oversampling filtering, or NOS.***
  
 Why is this a big deal?  Well, in the PCM world, there is this thing called 'sample and hold'.  So for CD material, there is basically a 'flat-top' or stairstep' pulse, 44,100 times a second.  But, we don't listen to stair stepped, square wave audio.  We typically listen to sine waves.  The answer is to filter all audio above the Nyquist frequency.  For CD, that means all audio above 22khz is filtered out.  What is left behind is more or less a perfect sine wave.  Remember those stairsteps?  Those stairstep formations were the sum of the high frequencies.  Now that the high frequency transitions are gone, what is left is the smooth audio signal below 22khz.  
  
 Sounds great, right?  Well, the problem is creating a filter that doesn't affect audible audio 20khz and below, and filters out all audio above 22khz, is pretty much impossible.  Therefore, the culprit in the whole 'digital sound' debate is the digital filter.  According to quite a few, anyway.  
  
 So one answer is oversampling.  Lets oversample all audio at say, 8x. giving us a sample rate of 352khz.  Now we can apply a much gentler, much less invasive interpolation filter. Problem solved!
  
 Or is it?  Problem is, interpolation filtering alters data. It isn't a lossless process.  And while the filter characteristics may be more gentle in the audio band, it still isn't transparent.  
  
 Okay, now what?  Well, since we can't hear those stair step high frequencies, why filter at all?  Let our ears be the filter!  And so, you get non-oversampling, or 'bit-perfect'.
  
 All that high frequency stuff is left in the signal, and no interpolation is done to the original audio. (which is why iFi calls it BitPerfect.) Therefore the mathematical losses of interpolation are avoided, and the 'ringing' and 'impulse response' problems associated with digital filtering are avoided.  
  
 The problem, though, is there is some high frequency content left in the signal.  And this can cause some non-linearities or audible noise in analog circuitry.  So it is possible that the noise floor in Bitperfect mode may be slightly higher.  
  
 ------
  
  
 I saw a post on another site that suggested the 'analog' nature of the iDSD when using bitperfect is due to audible noise in the signal.  This is not the case.  To hear any audible noise in bitperfect mode with high resolution formats requires a very sensitive headphone, and cranking the volume all the way to max.  Then maybe, just maybe you will hear a slight hiss.  The signal to noise ratio is by far more than what is necessary for an 'audiophile' experience.   
  
 So, in summary, the reason BitPerfect may sound better to some ears is all in the filtering, or the lack thereof.  The less a signal is processed, the better it can potentially sound.  Or, at least that is the theory to which I subscribe.  
  
  
 *** An interesting point in all of this, though, is the fact that the BB DSD1793 is still an oversampling delta-sigma chipset.  The Bitperfect filter setting, as well as the Standard and Minimum Phase, control what the chip does with PCM data BEFORE it goes to the delta sigma segment DAC.   So, while yes, the filter that prepares PCM for delta sigma conversion can be non-oversampling, in the end, it is still an oversampling DAC, as are all delta sigma DACs.  Nevertheless, having a Bitpefect filter setting before the delta sigma converter is important.  How the data is handled before it goes to the converter is at least as important as anything else.  It means one less DSP.


----------



## RadioWonder737

*iRack Upgraded RCA Cables... One pair 16 3/4" and two pairs 7 3/4"...*


----------



## MLGrado

radiowonder737 said:


> *iRack Upgraded RCA Cables... One pair 16 3/4" and two pairs 7 3/4"...*


 
  
  
 That is sweet!  Makes for a very nice package!!!


----------



## MLGrado

One other thing... still expermenting with the iEMatch settings.. iFi says it should only be used in Eco mode, and then only when there is still too much gain.  
  
  
 I still say I may be hearing better sound using it in Normal/Turbo modes.  I admit that without being able to exactly match volume levels, the differences may simply be in my imagination.  
  
  
 If you are just getting started, I would indeed suggest following the iFi recommendations.  That is, leave iEMatch off in all modes other than Eco.  
  
 But, after you have followed their recommendations, and get to feeling adventurous, experiment a little.  You may like what you hear..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Great post,s. Have you done and comparative listening with headphones to determin any change in volume gain settings?? For me CIEMS are just to limited sometimes for my old ears and brain to tell. 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I just got the ifi DSD micro. Charging it now. I'll say something later tonight. Please do not get annoyed at me for not wanting to say much. Understand so
Much i post gets deleted and such. But I do love this place and the immense traffics it has. 
Anyway post later 
Al


----------



## MLGrado

One last post this afternoon, and then life calls 
  
  
 I am planning on doing a review series.  I will be pitting the iFi iDSD Micro against other sub $500 dacs. Maybe to the tune of once a month.  Sorry, but that is about the limit of my available time to do such a comparison.
  
 Here are the candidates for comparison.  Which one would you like to see compared/reviewed first?  Or suggest something not on the list?
  
 MicroMega MyDAC  (DAC only review)
 Music Fidelity V90 (DAC only)
 Peachtree DAC-IT (Dac only)
 Teac UD-H01
 HRT Music Streamer HD
 Denon DA-300USB
 Meridian Explorer
 Cambridge DAC Magic Plus
 Resonessence Herus
 M2Tech HiFace
  
  
 A few are DAC only.  One could add the matching headphone amp, and price wise still be in the ballpark, but I think I am going to keep it simple and do those as DAC reviews only.  
  
  
 These will be comprehensive comparisions, focusing on more than just sound quality.  I will be looking closely at the little details, like, pops and ticks, glitches, software and usability issues, etc.  
  
  
 Looking forward to getting started!


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> I just got the ifi DSD micro. Charging it now. I'll say something later tonight. Please do not get annoyed at me for not wanting to say much. Understand so
> Much i post gets deleted and such. But I do love this place and the immense traffics it has.
> Anyway post later
> Al


 
  
 yeah!
  
 can't wait to hear your impressions!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hiw long do I charge it to test it. ???


----------



## JuleZ3C

alrainbow said:


> Hiw long do I charge it to test it. ???


 

 You can begin your testing right now, you'll just have to change your battery (worst case) a couple months before what could have been 
  
 Regarding the use of IEMatch and normal / turbo mode vs. eco without IEMatch, I've found that the 3D effect is very sensibly different : in eco mode, it opens the sound stage for sure, but I mainly get a big boost beginning in the upper mids that is not present in the normal / turbo modes
 I haven't found the same with 3D for speakers in preamp mode where the 3d effect is the same whatever the selected gain
  
 What about you usually using the eco mode?


----------



## parkman

Update! So per suggestion, I tried the IEMatch high sensitivity and ultra sensitivity. And great results! I've found the normal power mode and high sensitivity to be the best sound to me for my LCD-X's. Perfect. Loving it. Thanks for the help! 

I've actually recently encountered an issue though.. My USB input seems to be very fickle. The included blue USB wiggles a significant amount when connected to the input on the iDSD. This doesn't seem to be a problem when using the PC as the source, but when using the iPhone, a simple light touch of the cable/connector interrupts the signal and causes the music to pause and/or disconnect my phone so I have to unplug my phone, and turn off the iDSD and back on again. For the sake of verifying it's not the cable, it tried it with directly connecting a brand new Apple lightning to camera USB adapter to the iDSD, and there's less wiggle, but still the same problem. As you can imagine, this is making the portable aspect of the iDSD very challenging.. With my music constantly pausing/stopping with the slightest movement. Interestingly, no matter how much I wiggle the cable, it does NOT interrupt the signal when connected to the computer. Maybe the way the line out for the iPhone works requires some sort of sensitive feedback signal from the iDSD that is somehow interrupted? The lightning end, is completely snug in my phone, so no problems on that end. 

I've opened a support ticket with iFi, but I wanted to see if anyone else had a similar issue? Or perhaps I have a faulty USB input?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I need some time with this. It's not so strait forward. As they are very different in tone who ever said the ifi is warm of neutral speaks to me in agreement. 
But something simple to say now is dsd is dsd on the ifi not like the Hugo that seems to hurt dsd rather then let it excell for what it is. 
So far setup,is surface pro playing with j river into the ifi USB purifier and into both dacs separately . So same source and setup. Playing both PCM and dsd .
I can say the guy with the pop is right it's a little annoying as the tracks stop on j river . Turning it on and off is a tiny pop nothing really . But j river is not cool. Nothing damaging though. On turbo and hd800 headphones. Very clear and separating the music nice. Both bass and brass is very clean even horns and piano a fav of mine to show th e men and the boys. It is a man for sure. So far my only sorry is it's a little warm but honestly it's really good with the hd800 . This headphone is major headache to,please and it does it very well. Again I am old and I am sure others here will feel different and this is fine by me.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Also I ca say this the person with the iPhone mine us fine and I can move anything around. Also the surfsce pro sounds better then the iPhone 5 noticible this is Avery's good sign as it shloud be very apparent and it is . 
Hope this helps a little .
Al


----------



## john57

I am glad that the HD800 sounds better with the iDSD since the HD800 is not my favorite headphone I have heard, a bit unrealistic in my opinion. I think more users will share your views more than you realized.  PM me on the J.River setup if you like. I am sure there is a way to play without the pops or clicks. Native mode is generally better for J.River.


----------



## john57

dup


----------



## ALRAINBOW

J river , I tried wasapi and asio. Dsd streaming , no up or down sampling , no change to any sampling rates. Not sure of nothing else. Oh yes ssd over dop. I thought it ended that . If it does native I will uncheck and try it later heading for diner with the family wife is already mD bout the boxes mad all the stuff on the dinning room table . You know how that goes lmao. 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

And thanks for replying. 
Al


----------



## BillsonChang007

For power mode and IEMatch, I usually set mine at Normal + High Sensitivity. It's perfect sweet spot for most of my headphones that I like pairing the Micro iDSD with. The IEMatch is actually an attenuator, reducing volume by -12dB at high sensitivity and -24dB at ultra sensitivity, I believe it can be used at every mode.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It charged and the light went out in about 5 hours with a apple Ipad USB as the USB power source. Pretty cool. I ordered two of the USB hi power chargers as well 

Al


----------



## maricius

alrainbow said:


> It charged and the light went out in about *5 hours* with a apple Ipad USB as the USB power source. Pretty cool. I ordered two of the USB hi power chargers as well
> 
> Al


 
 Lucky.


----------



## rickyleelee

mlgrado said:


> That is sweet!  Makes for a very nice package!!!


 
 Agree!


----------



## Jobbing

mlgrado said:


> One last post this afternoon, and then life calls
> 
> 
> I am planning on doing a review series.  I will be pitting the iFi iDSD Micro against other sub $500 dacs. Maybe to the tune of once a month.  Sorry, but that is about the limit of my available time to do such a comparison.
> ...





I would like to add Musical Fidelity M1DAC to that list, if you don't mind


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can add two . One the cypherlabs db dac and the other is the iBasso balance dac. .

Al


----------



## RHMMMM

What about something from Resonessence Labs?


----------



## Gerrit06

Perhaps the M2Tech hiface dac


----------



## Jobbing

gerrit06 said:


> Perhaps the M2Tech hiface dac




+1 for M2Tech HiFace Dac


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I just did a quick compare from cypher labs alogirytem -db 
Wow a big step down. This ifi is pretty good 
Al


----------



## maricius

alrainbow said:


> I just did a quick compare from cypher labs alogirytem -db
> 
> Wow a big step down. This ifi is pretty good
> 
> Al



 


Do post a more detailed comparison!! 

On a side note, I can't wait for a comparison between the micro iDSD, a CL Theorem, and the CLAS -dB/Duet stack. These seem like a more realistic comparison price wise.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I also own a cypherlabs bal headphone amp as well 
It's a stack. I can do something with that. If you wish. 
I also a iBasso pelican and there bal amp and bal DAC as well. 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW




----------



## ALRAINBOW

A question does anybody know the output imp of the DSD micro. ??

Also I can say it plays the HE6 fantastic. Luchious as they are 
Also the pops are gone thanks john 57. 
It was set to dop in jriver. 
I think I like it better with the he 6 no warm feeling. Or less for sure. 
The fact it's playing them great has my attention 
Al


----------



## MLGrado

billsonchang007 said:


> For power mode and IEMatch, I usually set mine at Normal + High Sensitivity. It's perfect sweet spot for most of my headphones that I like pairing the Micro iDSD with. The IEMatch is actually an attenuator, reducing volume by -12dB at high sensitivity and -24dB at ultra sensitivity, I believe it can be used at every mode.


 
  
 yeah, I found out it actually comes AFTER the amp stage, right before the heaphone output.  So the IEMatch doesn't affect anything upstream of that.  Same gain amount going into and out of the amp.


----------



## MLGrado

rhmmmm said:


> What about something from Resonessence Labs?


 
  
 Yeah, I am going to add the Herus to that list.


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> A question does anybody know the output imp of the DSD micro. ??
> 
> Also I can say it plays the HE6 fantastic. Luchious as they are
> Also the pops are gone thanks john 57.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah it is possible to get this thing essentially pop free.  Now, I know this may not be the case with everyone, as configurations differ.  But, it can be done.  
  
 My setup is also essentially pop free.  I am not going to say completely, as every now and then something odd happens, but for the most part it is very clean.  
  
 I am not sure on the impedance, but good to hear how well it drives the HE6.  That was one of the design goals, I believe.  
  
 I am glad you are liking it on DSD.  Yes, it is the real deal!


----------



## MLGrado

One more detail on bitpefect..
  
 if you go back and look at one of my recent posts,
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/525#post_10821878
  
  
 I wrote a couple paragraphs about non-oversampling chips.  Well, the iDSD is a segment DAC, so in the end, part of the signal has to be oversampled.  I am not going into great detail here, if you want to read more, I refer you back to my previous post.  
  
 What I would like to add to that is this.  Yes, the lower 18 bits of the signal are oversampled in the Delta Sigma converter.  But, the top 6 bits, are not oversampled at all!!  So yes, that part of the audio signal is TRULY non-oversampled, from input to output.  
  
 And that may be a small detail, but to me an important one.  
  
  
 I also learned about how much custom programming iFi does to give the best sound possible.  The Burr Brown DSD1793 is really not designed to be used this way.  It is supposed to always be an oversampling chip.  But leave it to iFi to do things 'outside the box'.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

My imp question cause the headphones sound very different at the same turbo mode.
Hd800 very detailed but heavy low end and a little warm. The he 6 is usually low end heavy compared to hd800 and it's lighter Trying to get a bead on things. 
PCM sounds better on he6 too. All I can say is this is a real game charger so far at this price point. 
Others coming to the party need to check this out. 
I have not used CIEMS as yet. 

At some point I will do some real A/B stuff. For now jousting getting aquated and going well 
Just looking this little box and seeing the HE6 connected is got me confused a little 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Is this why the DSD is so good as opposed to the Hugo ?? 
Also so far all testing on bit perfect. It does sound different when from my iphone 5 and surface pro 
Better on pro. No caps yet. I figure leave the best for last. 
As caps seems to show just where the road ends with a DAC I connect It. 
The noise floor is pretty low too. I am not a technical guy But I do love to read 
And thanks grado. Any ideas please ask me to try or suggest. 
Also when is your meet and where ? 
Did you find a Hugo as yet. 
Al


----------



## Wildcatsare1

alrainbow said:


> A question does anybody know the output imp of the DSD micro. ??
> 
> Also I can say it plays the HE6 fantastic. Luchious as they are
> Also the pops are gone thanks john 57.
> ...




It powers the HE6, I thought that was marketing hype on there part, would love to hear more about that combination, as well as your HD800?!?!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I will in time but it really does play both well. 
This thing is loaded with switches. Who ever designed it really tried to appease a mass market. 
I stink at writing but will try. I also have a lousy. Audio volcabulery 
But I do not lie and tell what I hear 
Al


----------



## pearljam50000

So... Micro is better with DSD , and Hugo is better with PCM?


----------



## MLGrado

pearljam50000 said:


> So... Micro is better with DSD , and Hugo is better with PCM?


 
 Hmmm, I read through all the comments, and didn't see any definitive conclusions, yet


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> Is this why the DSD is so good as opposed to the Hugo ??
> Also so far all testing on bit perfect. It does sound different when from my iphone 5 and surface pro
> Better on pro. No caps yet. I figure leave the best for last.
> As caps seems to show just where the road ends with a DAC I connect It.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Al
  
 Our meet is in Nashville on Sept 20.  It looks like we have a good one brewing!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/723847/music-city-meet-nashville-tn-fall-2014-sept-20-2014


----------



## MLGrado

And I think HE-6 is on my list of 'buys' now.  
  
 I understand it is very special with the right amp.  Well, sounds like I own one of the 'right' amps!


----------



## MLGrado

wildcatsare1 said:


> It powers the HE6, I thought that was marketing hype on there part, would love to hear more about that combination, as well as your HD800?!?!


 
  
 At the Nashville meet, looks like there will be a chance to find out first hand!  That is number one on my list of things to hear.


----------



## lakai

hi
  
 sorry ,I’ve been on the road for sometime.
  
 yes, it’s  nice feeling to have something that is also liked by other folks.
  
 although some folks have their own preferences, like, say, some prefer make-up to enhance a woman’s beauty,  though we can always sense when it is overdone. I,  for one prefer it  honestly  as possible., the old fashion way -  the  elegance of the simple truth -  for   guitar to sound like the real thing – that’s why i like my micro for the simpler thing it does. I guess, that’s how or why folks like it too.
  
 I have but very few music files that approach, from recording point, to sound as honestly with the micro. I like it tho –  make up and all – when its just as seductive, alluring in its own manners - if i may give an example in contrast, some sacds purchased on  line on blind faith  -  gloriously recorded craps – still craps. i have also this violin concerto, the redbook layer of my sacd,  by Rachel Podger on Channel Classic, on some select allegros, as the violin  approaches its high notes’ crescendos for me to reach for the volume to increase the excitement, in contrast with my lowering  on some of violin music from even better known labels.
  
 so it’ a bit of my personal instrumentation tool, technically – of its musical purpose.
  
 cheers.


----------



## lakai

the above is supposed to be my reply to another folk's positive comment but, well, it has come out without his post.


----------



## MLGrado

Hi all.  If you are interested in owning an iPurifier, pm me...
  
  
 Also, I will beginning my comparison reviews soon.  First product up against the Micro will be the Musical Fidelity V90 DAC.  
  
 Stereophile gave it an A+ rating, ahead of many an esoteric product.  I am curious to hear if I feel it to be world class regardless of price, as did Stereophile.


----------



## semeniub

I'm really liking the Micro playing as a DAC in bit perfect mode into my tube amp - just a fabulous combo. Some say that the bit perfect filter setting gives a smooth sound. Nothing doing in this pairing - I'm playing George Thorogood and Smashing Pumpkins right now and the sound is meaty, driving hard, and just surrounds you. More lost time coming up...


----------



## MLGrado

semeniub said:


> I'm really liking the Micro playing as a DAC in bit perfect mode into my tube amp - just a fabulous combo. Some say that the bit perfect filter setting gives a smooth sound. Nothing doing in this pairing - I'm playing George Thorogood and Smashing Pumpkins right now and the sound is meaty, driving hard, and just surrounds you. More lost time coming up...


 
  
 Depends on what is meant by smooth.  If you mean 'laid back', then definitely no.  There is no lack of detail, no lack of drive or excitement.  It can certainly rock!  
  
 What I mean by smooth is a lack of 'digititis'.  None of the tizzy, bright, hard edged harshness that can come with poorer DAC's.


----------



## semeniub

mlgrado said:


> Depends on what is meant by smooth.  If you mean 'laid back', then definitely no.  There is no lack of detail, no lack of drive or excitement.  It can certainly rock!
> 
> What I mean by smooth is a lack of 'digititis'.  None of the tizzy, bright, hard edged harshness that can come with poorer DAC's.


 
 It was a full-on attack in my case, so your explanation is an appropriate one.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Looking to use the if if purifier and the Gemini cable. How do,I connect the Gemini to the if if dsd micro ? Any ideas 
Al


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> Looking to use the if if purifier and the Gemini cable. How do,I connect the Gemini to the if if dsd micro ? Any ideas
> Al


 
  
 You need to use two USB ports to attach the Gemini.  There are two ways to do this.  
  
 1. Use iFi's iUSB power, which has a data/power port and a dedicated power only port.  The Gemini and the iUSB were designed to be used together.  
  
 2. Use two USB outputs of your computer or server.  The cable is designed as such that one side carries only power, one side carries only data.  So the idea is power and data are separated for the length of the cable, only to come back together at the termination.  This is supposed to decrease the likelihood of RF/EMI cross contamination.  
 And of course you will need to use one of the two adapters in the box that convert the termination to the necessary OTG connector.  
  
 And about the iPurifier.  The iDSD micro has an iPurifier built in.  You can certainly use an external one as well.  I have tried it; it works.  I can't say that it had any extra benefit, though.  
  
 I actually have my iPurifier up on Amazon at this time...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks , I thought inwas missing something . I used the blue mail to femail USB cable they give you and connected just data power slot on the right of the in purifier. It did make a difrence to me. 

Has anyone tried feh I dsd micro with a caps unit ???
Al


----------



## Wildcatsare1

alrainbow said:


> Thanks , I thought inwas missing something . I used the blue mail to femail USB cable they give you and connected just data power slot on the right of the in purifier. It did make a difrence to me.
> 
> Has anyone tried feh I dsd micro with a caps unit ???
> Al




Al, what is a caps unit?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/497-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-zuma/

It is a CPU made for audio. Better ones use batteries for the power supply . Also win serv 2012 and audio philesnAO. 
AUDIOMOPTIMIZER. 
AL


----------



## KmanChu

alrainbow said:


> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/497-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-zuma/
> 
> It is a CPU made for audio. Better ones use batteries for the power supply . Also win serv 2012 and audio philesnAO.
> AUDIOMOPTIMIZER.
> AL


 
 While I'm sure that a dedicated CAPS with the SOtM USB card and the various filters would provide some benefit, I think the iUSB Power, Gemini, and Purifier make a lot of the noise measures in the CAPS less necessary. (I'm not saying they aren't still beneficial, just not as dramatic.) I have used my setup with a fanless, SSD running, Atom based PC (effectively the cheapest CAPS version listed) running Jriver that is dedicated just to playing back music and it doesn't sound too different than my main desktop. The main difference is I don't hear any fans or disk drives spinning!


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> Thanks , I thought inwas missing something . I used the blue mail to femail USB cable they give you and connected just data power slot on the right of the in purifier. It did make a difrence to me.
> 
> Has anyone tried feh I dsd micro with a caps unit ???
> Al


 
  
 No, you weren't missing anything.  Did you get an adapter that comes in an anti-static bag?  That is the OTG to USB adapter that I use with my Gemini cable.  Now, the adapter, plus the iPurifier, plus the Gemini cable, requires a lot of clearance behind the iDSD, and is quite weighty.  I worry about the downward pressure that combination puts on the iDSD OTG connector.  
  
 In that case, there is a second adaptor, that uses a short cable.  That might be a better solution.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

kmanchu said:


> While I'm sure that a dedicated CAPS with the SOtM USB card and the various filters would provide some benefit, I think the iUSB Power, Gemini, and Purifier make a lot of the noise measures in the CAPS less necessary. (I'm not saying they aren't still beneficial, just not as dramatic.) I have used my setup with a fanless, SSD running, Atom based PC (effectively the cheapest CAPS version listed) running Jriver that is dedicated just to playing back music and it doesn't sound too different than my main desktop. The main difference is I don't hear any fans or disk drives spinning!




I respectfully disagree. If the caps you have was a win server 2012 and audiophil audio optimizer running in core mode you wpuld feel very difrent. 

Even witha stock PSU the improvment is amazing. It must be a a I 5 2.5 g min SSD. Drives. Best to have one for os and another for music only. No antivirus . 

Of you can try it. I too hd a n I7 all,out gamer CPU setup so I felt there could be no improvement until I did a trial. Wow am I happy. .

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

mlgrado said:


> No, you weren't missing anything.  Did you get an adapter that comes in an anti-static bag?  That is the OTG to USB adapter that I use with my Gemini cable.  Now, the adapter, plus the iPurifier, plus the Gemini cable, requires a lot of clearance behind the iDSD, and is quite weighty.  I worry about the downward pressure that combination puts on the iDSD OTG connector.
> 
> In that case, there is a second adaptor, that uses a short cable.  That might be a better solution.




Big thanks grado yes there was all kinds of stuff inside. And yes I can do it. I also agree there is a lot of pressure if nothing is holding up the cables. 

Al


----------



## blackwolf1006

How portable is this unit. Is it a Meet only type of portable.


----------



## BillsonChang007

blackwolf1006 said:


> How portable is this unit. Is it a Meet only type of portable.


 
 Depends on your definition of "portable". It is longer and thicker than an iPhone 4. It stacks on top nicely;


----------



## blackwolf1006

billsonchang007 said:


> Depends on your definition of "portable". It is longer and thicker than an iPhone 4. It stacks on top nicely;


 
  
 Actually doesn't look too bad. I really wish I could demo it before buying it


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I rarely say just buy something. But at 500 bucks and owning it and many others. It is the most versetle . Then comes the sound very nice and again very worth the price. 
And last it drives fine ebpvey headphone ,CIEM i own including the HE6 and hd800. It's win win. 

Al


----------



## BillsonChang007

I co recall iFi Audio offers 14 days refund. Not sure how it works thought.


----------



## Sergiusz OMD

Hello guys.
I want to connect iUsb, iTube and Micro iDSD with my Android Phone but I dont know if there is even a way to install all those iFi boxes together. I think that it is possible but I need to use a lot of adapters. And the question is: will the sound quality be lower because of adapters?


----------



## KmanChu

The iTube is an analog device. To use it with the iDSD you would have to run the RCA outs of the iDSD into the iTube, and then into a separate amp. If you using the headphone amp in the iDSD then no iTube.


----------



## pearljam50000

alrainbow said:


> I rarely say just buy something. But at 500 bucks and owning it and many others. It is the most versetle . Then comes the sound very nice and again very worth the price.
> And last it drives fine ebpvey headphone ,CIEM i own including the HE6 and hd800. It's win win.
> 
> Al



 can the micro replace a desktop DAC/amp when used with HD800, or do you feel you are missing alot? Thanx


----------



## adammax

Hi guys. Need some recommendation. I'm using spotify as music source. Is idsd micro a recommended amp and dac for my lg g3? I don't have dad files atm. Would prefer renting music


----------



## Turrican2

sergiusz omd said:


> Hello guys.
> I want to connect iUsb, iTube and Micro iDSD with my Android Phone but I dont know if there is even a way to install all those iFi boxes together. I think that it is possible but I need to use a lot of adapters. And the question is: will the sound quality be lower because of adapters?







kmanchu said:


> The iTube is an analog device. To use it with the iDSD you would have to run the RCA outs of the iDSD into the iTube, and then into a separate amp. If you using the headphone amp in the iDSD then no iTube.




Consider adding an iCan, especially if you have an irack already. I prefer the 3d and xbass on the iCan rather than the idsd, more control. It's a stellar combo (micro idsd, itube, iCan) don't have the iUSB unfortunately.


----------



## BillsonChang007

adammax said:


> Hi guys. Need some recommendation. I'm using spotify as music source. Is idsd micro a recommended amp and dac for my lg g3? I don't have dad files atm. Would prefer renting music


 
 What headphones are you using? the Nano iDAC could be more than enough if you do not play DSD and only spotify


----------



## Sergiusz OMD

turrican2 said:


> Consider adding an iCan, especially if you have an irack already. I prefer the 3d and xbass on the iCan rather than the idsd, more control. It's a stellar combo (micro idsd, itube, iCan) don't have the iUSB unfortunately.




Well thats a nice option. Do you like the sound of iTube in that whole combo? Would you recommend adding iTube between iDSD and iCAN? Thanks for the reply in advance.


----------



## adammax

billsonchang007 said:


> What headphones are you using? the Nano iDAC could be more than enough if you do not play DSD and only spotify




I'm using Roxanne, shure 846,hifi headphone, ath m50. I heard the Hugo and Really like it's musical sq.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

pearljam50000 said:


> can the micro replace a desktop DAC/amp when used with HD800, or do you feel you are missing alot? Thanx




Yes I think it's fine. It performance is good enough for a desktop rig. In playing with my hd800 and HE6. It reviled all it is. 
There was no sign of harshness and I did not feel a loss of details . It low level deatils were pretty good as well. One more thing it's a full body sound. Not thin at all. And this is with no adding of 3d or any EQ. It's slightly warm presentation gives a nice full feeling without making the music fatiging . 
Al


----------



## softsound

I would like to hear about Denon DA300 USB, Meridian Director, NAD D1050, Hegel HD12 (will be released in Autumn), Abrahamsen audio v6.0 (just released), Pioneer U05 (just released).
 They are said-suspected to be particularly soft sounding DACs. I wonder how does iDSD micro compares to these from the cd playback point of view.
 I am looking for a *very forgiving DAC* for the many bad-harsh-sibilant-steely CD recordings out there.


----------



## BillsonChang007

adammax said:


> I'm using Roxanne, shure 846,hifi headphone, ath m50. I heard the Hugo and Really like it's musical sq.




They are all fairly easy to drive, the Nano iDSD should suit you well but if you don't kind the slightly larger package, the Micro iDSD would be excellent


----------



## adammax

billsonchang007 said:


> They are all fairly easy to drive, the Nano iDSD should suit you well but if you don't kind the slightly larger package, the Micro iDSD would be excellent




Thanks bills on for your reply. As I'm using mp3 320kps, will I be not utilising idsd micro. An over kill? I'm using a fiio e11k as amplifier.


----------



## Turrican2

sergiusz omd said:


> Well thats a nice option. Do you like the sound of iTube in that whole combo? Would you recommend adding iTube between iDSD and iCAN? Thanks for the reply in advance.


  

  
  
 I love the sound of these 3 units together, although I can't say I've tested without the itube in the loop (i.e. just the idsd and ican).  Before I got the idsd I was using an iDac and I would say that when I removed the itube from the loop there was a change in musicality which was noticeable after a while. I just find the itube adds more musicality and enjoyment to anything which goes through it, ymmv of course.
  
 I am seriously impressed by the idsd as a stand-alone device though. If i didn't already own the itube and ican I probably wouldn't go looking to get them.    I almost feel guilty for adding the itube and ican to the loop but there's no doubt they add something special to the experience, so they will stay in the chain in my setup for sure.


----------



## BillsonChang007

adammax said:


> Thanks bills on for your reply. As I'm using mp3 320kps, will I be not utilising idsd micro. An over kill? I'm using a fiio e11k as amplifier.


 
  
 who knows, you might want to try DSD one days although I personally do not feel that it is a huge step up over FLAC 192/24 especially for the large amount of size it takes. 
  
 I am not sure if your phone is compatible with the Nano iDSD thought


----------



## MLGrado

alrainbow said:


> Yes I think it's fine. It performance is good enough for a desktop rig. In playing with my hd800 and HE6. It reviled all it is.
> There was no sign of harshness and I did not feel a loss of details . It low level deatils were pretty good as well. One more thing it's a full body sound. Not thin at all. And this is with no adding of 3d or any EQ. It's slightly warm presentation gives a nice full feeling without making the music fatiging .
> Al


 
  
  
 Hi Al.
  
 iFi is releasing a 'Mini' version of the iDSD that is desktop only, probably late this year.  If I can summarize iFi, not wanting to put words in their mouth, but I believe very much in the spirit of what I have heard.... "If you think the Micro sounds great, wait til you hear the Mini!"  
  
 Quad core DAC architecture, upgraded power supplies and analog parts.  Now, if you are looking for a versatile, portable headphone amp, well, the Micro is probably the best for that.  
  
 But for sheer sound quality, the Mini is supposed to be 'The One.'  I know I am first in line to buy it.


----------



## semeniub

Based on what I've heard so far with my Micro, I've already planned to include an iDSD Mini into my hifi upgrade path.


----------



## semeniub

If you look at some of the recent comments on a few other forums, there seems to be almost disbelief of what iFi have been able to achieve with the chip specs in the Micro.
  
 My take is this, iFi was clever enough to be able to unlock the potential which had been engineered (probably many years ago) into the BB1793 chip. It also speaks a lot about the capabilities of the Japanese chip engineers at that time.
  
 This doesn't show the current proclaimed DAC chip gurus as being very state-of-the-art though.


----------



## LoryWiv

I appreciate all the great info. on smartphone and tablet / computer source use. I am itching to try this (or possibly the nano) on my PC with FooBar. I also do a lot of portable listening with a DAP and am ready to pull the trigger on the new ibasso.. Can the Micro i-DSD accept digital input from an ibasso DX90 coax output as source? If so, what cabling is needed....and would it likely improve the DX90's unamped sound?
  
 Thanks for any info.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Is there a proposed price on the mini dsd ?? 
Al


----------



## kugino

$1500 is the current estimate


----------



## bobsherman

$1500 will kill sales IMO... The further they take it over $1000 the lower sales will be.


----------



## fzman

bobsherman said:


> $1500 will kill sales IMO... The further they take it over $1000 the lower sales will be.


 
 what do you base this claim on?  Yes, I end my sentences with prepositions -- try and stop me!


----------



## john57

IFI has repeatedly said that $1500 is not the official price. Hang on to your horses and wait for the official announcement.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^ Didn't Stereophile and others report a target price point at $1,000.00?


----------



## Mudshark

Killer review here:
  
 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0914/ifi_audio_micro_idsd_dac_headphone_amplifier.htm


----------



## JeffDee

lorywiv said:


> I appreciate all the great info. on smartphone and tablet / computer source use. I am itching to try this (or possibly the nano) on my PC with FooBar. I also do a lot of portable listening with a DAP and am ready to pull the trigger on the new ibasso.. Can the Micro i-DSD accept digital input from an ibasso DX90 coax output as source? If so, what cabling is needed....and would it likely improve the DX90's unamped sound?
> 
> Hi, i just recently listened to this combination with my HE-500. It's incredible. A big improvement over the DAC and amp of the iBasso.
> I used the stock cable delivered with the iBasso. Works like a charm. Don't know the cable quality though. Couldn't review that.
> ...


----------



## bobsherman

fzman said:


> what do you base this claim on?  Yes, I end my sentences with prepositions -- try and stop me!


 

 Just the feeling that many people would go for the Micro at $500 and not pay three times the price for the Mini.


----------



## dacari

Any way to get USB audio from my note 3? It worked like charm with the nano but it doesn't work with micro?
 I thought it will be the same compatibility...


----------



## MLGrado

Lots of hand wringing over the price of the Mini.  An iFi representative did indeed say $1500 in the mini thread.  But, that is not an official price.  I concur with the others who say be patient... the $1500 mark is of some consequence, though.  You had better believe iFi is aiming at products in that price bracket when it comes to sheer audio performance.  
  
 But, that is not why I am starting this thread.  
  
 Lots of talk about the Hugo, and how it compares.  As a DSD DAC, the Micro is quite different.  Rob Watts of Chord has said this about DSD decoding: "Simple and false statements like "native DSD is best" hide a very much more complex reality."
  
 Now I am just a layman, but I know many a non-layman who would vehemently disagree with this statement.  Now, if he had removed the word 'false', I might have taken it more softly, because he is correct that 'Native DSD' is vague, and exactly what implementations constitute native DSD could be debated. Futhermore, the label 'Native DSD' is applied to a lot of things that are in no way similar.  But by taking the hard stance that he does, which is truly clarified in how he implements DSD in his DAC, I would say 'game on'.  
  
 For reference, here is how Chord does DSD.   http://www.head-fi.org/t/702787/chord-hugo/2475#post_10494245
  
  
 The thing about Native DSD conversion, or at least what it means to me, is the least amount of processing possible in digital to analog conversion.  DSD DACS are all over the board, though, in the type and the amount of signal processing.  
  
  
 You have the simplest kind of DSD DAC's that take the DSD logic signal, send it straight to a very simple analog RC filter, and be done with it.  All this really requires is a USB receiver with a DSD logic output, maybe some kind of reclocker to minimize jitter,  and a minimal amount of analog components.  See the Lampizator as a more sophisticated example.  
  
  
 Another kind of DSD DAC takes the DSD logic signal, and rather than analog filter it, digitally filters it.  The output of the digital filter is multiplied, as in, it is multi-bit.  This is usually at the same sample rate as what went in.  This is sometimes called 'DSD-wide'.  This actually isn't a real problem at all, if a good filter is used.  After all, DSD has to be filtered, whether it is analog or digital.  In either case, the filter can have excellent impulse response properties.  The problem is, once digitally filtered, all kinds of other DSP's are applied.  Volume Control, Sample Rate Conversion, and then invariably this intermediate DSP signal is remodulated back into a traditional delta-sigma format.  The point is, what goes in and what comes out can be very, very different.  Examples of such chips are ESS Sabre.  Cirrus and Wolfson chips can be, and often are implemented this way.  Wolfson actually may decimate to DXD, though.  AKM may also be an example.    
  
 Another way is to filter DSD into good old fashioned PCM, then convert as PCM.  This actually ain't all that bad, especially if you are using a high quality non-oversampling true PCM DAC.  The limiting factor here is of course the decimation filter.  You just can't get around it.  But, all in all, not necessarily a bad way to do things.  Some high end DAC makers are proponents of this method.  Bel Canto comes to mind, and I believe Berkeley.  
  
  
 And finally, we come to the iDSD way.  The iDSD's, whether the Nano, the Micro, or the upcoming Mini, use the Burr Brown way.  It is similar to the first example given.  DSD is sent to an analog FIR filter for conversion.  There is no conversion to multi-bit, decimation, DSP, etc. happening to the DSD signal.   The devil is in the details, though, and it differs just a little from that first example I gave up a few paragraphs.  Suffice to say, it is native DSD via silicon.  I would call it a hybrid digital/analog filter.  Another DIY example that is familiar is the Signalyst DSD DAC.  It uses the same kind of conversion.  The difference is the number of elements, and their weighting.  
  
  
 So, simplicity is what I am after.  I do believe, as do others, than minimal processing is the way to go with DSD.  Or with PCM, for that matter.  There are those who disagree, and I respect their opinion.  As a matter of fact, all of these methods above can and do produce very good results.  There is many an ESS DAC, for example, that sounds very, very nice.  
 But the BEST DSD sound to me, is not found in those types of DACS.  The best sound is found in DACs just like the amazing...
  
 iFi iDSD Micro.  
  
 A true DSD DAC.  And the 'proof' is in the hearing.  I really think as soon as you hear DSD played back on this device, you will be hooked.  Or at least impressed


----------



## kugino

john57 said:


> IFI has repeatedly said that $1500 is not the official price. Hang on to your horses and wait for the official announcement.


 
 of course nothing is official. they don't even have a product yet. but ifi has thrown out that number on a few occasions, so that's a ballpark number.


----------



## KmanChu

In regards to price, this discussion was taking place over on the mini iDSD thread. So I'll the same thing again...
  
 With all of the price hand-wringing over a $1500 pricetag, I think people are underestimating what iFi is capable of. Here are the iFi products I own:
  
 iUSB Power
 micro iCAN
 micro iDAC
 micro iDSD
 Gemini cable
 iPurifier
  
 I don't feel that a single one of these is overpriced. In fact most of them (especially the iDSD and, yes, the forgotten iDAC) are actually some of the best deals I've ever come across in audio. As you go up in price then, yes, the deminishing returns curve takes its bite, but iFi has demonstrated an ability to actually give you a lot for your money. If the mini costs $1500 then I suspect it will be pretty stupendous and worth every penny. Perhaps they did such a good job with the micro iDSD that in order to provide a big jump in performance and features it will simply cost that much to make an upline model worthwhile. I would rather the mini cost $1500 and play in the big leagues, or at least AAA (reference to American professional baseball), rather than cost $1000 and only be a marginal improvement over the micro.


----------



## LoryWiv

Great stuff, thanks JeffDee. Did you connect ibsso Line out 3.5mm to same input on iDSD? I think that is analogue and if that's a big boost to sound quality, I can only imagine how the digital connection would sound.
  
 Salivating now. Thanks!


----------



## wisnon

pearljam50000 said:


> Is anyone using the micro with the HD800 as DAC/amp?


 
 Yes, AlRainbow is...


----------



## dacari

Is there any compatibility list with android phones?
  
 I just opened a ticket support to know if there is an incompatibility with my Note3, since with the nano works flawlessly.


----------



## kugino

wisnon said:


> Yes, AlRainbow is...


 

 i am, too. i haven't done any critical listening with them, though. it is, however, quite mellow and i haven't found the hd800 to be shrill at all, which is a common complaint with them.
  
 the micro is more than powerful enough to drive them well...i've been using them on the lowest power setting (is that the eco?)...
  
 i actually like the th900 pairing better, but the micro sounds perfectly fine with the hd800.


----------



## Sergiusz OMD




----------



## Sergiusz OMD

dacari said:


> Is there any compatibility list with android phones?
> 
> I just opened a ticket support to know if there is an incompatibility with my Note3, since with the nano works flawlessly.




How did you managed to connect Note 3 to Micro iDSD?

Coz as i know you must have a USB OTG cable. 

It should be connected like that I think: Usb OTG>Usb A to A cable >Micro iDSD


----------



## dacari

sergiusz omd said:


> How did you managed to connect Note 3 to Micro iDSD?


 
  
 With an OTG cable, the same I used with the nano, and USB Audio player app.
  
 Is there any special tip with power mode..etc?


----------



## BillsonChang007

dacari said:


> Is there any special tip with power mode..etc?




Forever and always, start from Eco with IEMatch switched off when testing new headphones. Try to keep the volume knob in between 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock for best sound quality and use Eco + Ultra/high sensitivity for IEMs. I also find that with the 3D switched on, it boosted the volume slightly so. I personally prefer to turn the volume by a lil bit before switching on the amazing 3D mode.

Billson


----------



## Mr Creosote

Well I was happy to read this review because it helped confirm what I was thinking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0914/ifi_audio_micro_idsd_dac_headphone_amplifier.htm


----------



## Sergiusz OMD

dacari said:


> With an OTG cable, the same I used with the nano, and USB Audio player app.
> 
> Is there any special tip with power mode..etc?




Meybe you need a powered USB Hub.
I am pretty confused about your problem because I have Note 3 too and I am planning to buy Micro iDSD


----------



## dacari

sergiusz omd said:


> Meybe you need a powered USB Hub.
> I am pretty confused about your problem because I have Note 3 too and I am planning to buy Micro iDSD


 
  
 Solved!!!
  
 Recently I installed "Noozxoide" so the Note3 wasn't under android audio (MUSIC FX) and the app had problems not recognizing the generic audio. I uninstalled it and now it works as should be.
  
 You can buy your Note3 (wait one month since next week Note4 will show up)


----------



## tf1216

dacari said:


> Any way to get USB audio from my note 3? It worked like charm with the nano but it doesn't work with micro?
> I thought it will be the same compatibility...


 
  
 Does the OTG connector wiggle at all inside the Micro iDSD?  If so, try a couple of layers of electrical tape around the connector then reinserting it.  See if that helps.


----------



## dacari

tf1216 said:


> Does the OTG connector wiggle at all inside the Micro iDSD?  If so, try a couple of layers of electrical tape around the connector then reinserting it.  See if that helps.


 
  
 Thank you, much easier...see post above


----------



## fzman

dacari said:


> With an OTG cable, the same I used with the nano, and USB Audio player app.
> 
> Is there any special tip with power mode..etc?


 
 mine works perfectly with the micro and Note3 interconnected with an OTG cable, using USB audio player, of course


----------



## MLGrado

Hi
  
 Today I noticed a small anomaly with Jriver software.  This affects part of my initial review.  I reported that since the iDSD Micro accepts sample rates up to 768khz, it can do DSD256  via DoP, an industry first as far as I know.  
  
 This is STILL correct.  The Micro CAN accept DSD256 via DoP.  I have tested and confirmed this capability.  The problem is I was using a third party piece of software in conjunction with Jriver.  ASIO Proxy of Foobar legacy.  It has its own DoP engine, which works perfectly with the iDSD Micro. 
  
 Today I tried using Jriver's internal DoP engine.  No dice.  Jriver, without the assistance of third party software, doesn't want to output anything greater than DSD128 via DoP.  
  
 Now, if you use ASIO native, rather than DoP, all is well.  None of this matters.  DSD256 and DSD512 are flawless.  And that is how I do it, anyway.  I always use ASIO native regardless.  
  
  
 Anyway, not a huge deal, but an interesting tidbit for Jriver users.  I am talking about the Windows version.  Don't know about Mac.  And as ASIO Proxy is PC only, that isn't an option on the Mac side of the aisle.


----------



## WriterHead

I have been testing it and enjoying it a lot, but it makes a hiss noise conected to my iPhone 4 playing .aac files through my LCD2. This hiss disappears by selecting a filter different from bit perfect. Does anybody have an explanation? By the way, I have not noticed any sonic difference in my music between the 3 filters.


----------



## Sergiusz OMD

dacari said:


> Solved!!!
> 
> Recently I installed "Noozxoide" so the Note3 wasn't under android audio (MUSIC FX) and the app had problems not recognizing the generic audio. I uninstalled it and now it works as should be.
> 
> You can buy your Note3 (wait one month since next week Note4 will show up) :rolleyes:



I actually have Note 3  I mean that I am going to buy Micro iDSD


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Nice unit I am very happy so far. 
 Also over the long weekend I will be writing up a direct comparison of the ifi dsd micro and the Hugo. Both with headphones and CIEMS, Direct from both no external amps used. And PCM and dsd as well. 
I have been using it daily. With CIEM,s. With the 3D and without. Gotta say i am very happy. I am using both my hibino hdpr10 and my iPhone 5 as transport. Hdpr10 optical very cool . The internal EQ works pretty good with it. 

All I can say so far is the notes are very real sounding and vocals and piano is very good. And piono is very hard to sound good. Applause is ok too. Seperation of music is very good . On 3D it does do some kind of EQ as it changes the vocals a little . But overall a really nice feature , the switches are really cool,too and the multi color led for bit rate is cool to see. Only the volume control as a knob is ok but the Hugo little wheel is a better idea. I still cannot beleave I only paid 500 usd for it what a great deal. I hear some posting about a desk top setup. I cannot wait to hear that. 
At first listen I felt the dsd was it's strong pont , but the more i use it and play with features the PCM is really good too. Again mostly CIEM use and i do feel they hide some sounds where a good headset shows much more . 

Al


----------



## g3act

writerhead said:


> I have been testing it and enjoying it a lot, but it makes a hiss noise conected to my iPhone 4 playing .aac files through my LCD2. This hiss disappears by selecting a filter different from bit perfect. Does anybody have an explanation? By the way, I have not noticed any sonic difference in my music between the 3 filters.




I also get hiss with the bit perfect filter and 44 or 48 kHz music. No problem with hi res. Using the other filters removes the hiss/noise. 

I have narrowed it down to the USB input. I don't get any hiss with bit perfect and 44.1 kHz via the SP/DIF connector ( cd transport the source)

This makes me think the hiss must be generated by the computer source, but filtered out in the upsampling filters.

Looks like an iUSB may be on the hit list. Anyone else with the iDSD and the iUSB experience hiss with red book and the bit perfect filter engaged?


----------



## ClieOS

Bit perfect filter means non-oversampling (NOS) for PCM audio. NOS is inherently more noisy but often being described to gives the most organic / analog of sound.


----------



## WriterHead

I have just tested the battery life: 
  
5h 38m (started flashing at 5h 30)
  
 Playing continuously from iphone 4 dac out 
 aac files 192kbps 16/44
 no Xbass / no 3D
 turbo mode
 Audeze LCD 2 rev 2
 volume pot at 12 (perfect listening level for high DR albums like supertramp, steely dan... Too loud for contemporary popular music like Kanye, Muse...)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

WOW I expected more than that.  I am using it daily got to be at more than 5 hours by now . first  charge of unit.
  
 it could be I am using ciem,s
  
 al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

can someone post what the colors on the led mean. I am in the office and left paperwork at home. and there server website is down.
  
 al


----------



## pearljam50000

Seems like a great budget DAC/amp for HD800.


----------



## WriterHead

alrainbow said:


> WOW I expected more than that.  I am using it daily got to be at more than 5 hours by now . first  charge of unit.
> 
> *it could be I am using ciem,s*
> 
> al


 
 Of course, totally different power requirements. You should get at least 10h. 
  
 pdf manual: http://www.wodaudio.de/Downloads/Micro-iDSD-Manual.pdf


----------



## maricius

clieos said:


> Bit perfect filter means non-oversampling (NOS) for PCM audio. NOS is inherently more noisy but often being described to gives the most organic / analog of sound.


 
  
 Just curious but as to the post before yours, why isn't he getting any hiss with 44.1kHz PCM while on SP/DIF if it's something inherent for PCM audio of that sample rate?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

there is no inherint hiss in at any sample rate . its always the recording . if it is pure didgatl no hiss . now this means no pcm mixing . ae is dire straits far away fro me  it has some hiss but its a ddd disk. but its not format .
 al


----------



## g3act

maricius said:


> Just curious but as to the post before yours, why isn't he getting any hiss with 44.1kHz PCM while on SP/DIF if it's something inherent for PCM audio of that sample rate?


 
  
 I know, it baffled me too.  That's why I was curious to see if anyone had the iUSB and could confirm that it eliminated/reduced it.  It only really becomes noticeable in quiet passages of music, but since 95% of my listening is 44.1 classical, I find it quite annoying.  I much prefer the sound of Audirvana to that from the CD player, but it means using Minimum Phase.  I find Bitperfect tames the lively high end of my Beyer T90's.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

In the hugo thread they it's the same. It dies make no sense as more power to headphones over CIEMS. 
But it is about 7 hours either way. I am thinking the unit is what the big draw is.


----------



## ClieOS

Okay, I think I have it mostly figure out. First of, as we have said, Bit Perfect is NOS. One of the character of NOS is it doesn't have any brick wall filter that cuts everything off around 20kHz (where Standard and Minimum Phase are both filter than cut off at around 20kHz). This is one of the reason why it is more noisy. In a sense you can say Bit Perfect is actually filter-less. If you were to play around the PC setting carefully, you will notice these hiss in Bit Perfect filter only occur in 44.1kHz and 48kHz sampling rate, but not with higher sampling rate. My guess is, because higher sampling rate pushes the noise higher into the inaudible range, you don't detect them anymore. On the lower sampling rate, you can still detect the sampling noise as hiss. On the Standard and Minimum Phase filter, sampling noise is just filtered out.
  
 Now why can't you hear hiss in S/PDIF? My guess is, the S/PDIF in micro iDSD is configured to run on higher sampling rate by default, therefore it has the same effect as on PC setting with higher sampling rate, thus the sampling noise is simply being pushed higher than what we can hear.


----------



## ClieOS

alrainbow said:


> In the hugo thread they it's the same. It dies make no sense as more power to headphones over CIEMS.
> But it is about 7 hours either way. I am thinking the unit is what the big draw is.


 
  
 Not really. Generally speaking, higher impedance big cans needs more voltage, lower impedance CIEM needs more current. So similar power out (which is voltage x current) is still a possibility.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I did consider that. As it's still watts. Meaning. 
I x Volts = watts 
Then it becomes efficacy What ever I think the hours of run time are ok so far. 
Even the hdp r10 was about 7 or so but it varied as playing DSD sucked up more battery then PCM did. It even got warmer with DSD. 
Al


----------



## dacari

alrainbow said:


> Nice unit I am very happy so far.
> Also over the long weekend I will be writing up a direct comparison of the ifi dsd micro and the Hugo. Both with headphones and CIEMS, Direct from both no external amps used. And PCM and dsd as well.
> I have been using it daily. With CIEM,s. With the 3D and without. Gotta say i am very happy. I am using both my hibino hdpr10 and my iPhone 5 as transport. Hdpr10 optical very cool . The internal EQ works pretty good with it.


 
  
 I'm curious about your impressions with the Hugo. I assume do you own the Hugo, I mean it won't be a quick or on-the-go comparison.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Where is the trust between us 
I feel the heat I own all in the pic. 

Al


----------



## maricius

clieos said:


> Okay, I think I have it mostly figure out. First of, as we have said, Bit Perfect is NOS. One of the character of NOS is it doesn't have any brick wall filter that cuts everything off around 20kHz (where Standard and Minimum Phase are both filter than cut off at around 20kHz). This is one of the reason why it is more noisy. In a sense you can say Bit Perfect is actually filter-less. If you were to play around the PC setting carefully, you will notice these hiss in Bit Perfect filter only occur in 44.1kHz and 48kHz sampling rate, but not with higher sampling rate. My guess is, because higher sampling rate pushes the noise higher into the inaudible range, you don't detect them anymore. On the lower sampling rate, you can still detect the sampling noise as hiss. On the Standard and Minimum Phase filter, sampling noise is just filtered out.
> 
> *Now why can't you hear hiss in S/PDIF? My guess is, the S/PDIF in micro iDSD is configured to run on higher sampling rate by default, therefore it has the same effect as on PC setting with higher sampling rate, thus the sampling noise is simply being pushed higher than what we can hear.*


 
  
 This was my guess as well, something that would have to do with the non-USB digital input defaulted at its max 24/192. I find my concerns with the hiss quite amusing as it is the first case where I notice it more with headphones than I do with IEMs.


----------



## g3act

maricius said:


> This was my guess as well, something that would have to do with the non-USB digital input defaulted at its max 24/192. I find my concerns with the hiss quite amusing as it is the first case where I notice it more with headphones than I do with IEMs.


 
 You don't think it has something to do with the iDSD picking up noise from the USB input?  I use it on battery power all the time, but maybe it still draws power from the USB line.
  
 I know that my HTC One with On The Go cable to iDSD seems to generate more noise than my iMac into the iDSD.


----------



## maricius

alrainbow said:


> there is no inherint hiss in at any sample rate . its always the recording . if it is pure didgatl no hiss . now this means no pcm mixing . ae is dire straits far away fro me  it has some hiss but its a ddd disk. but its not format .
> al


 
  
 There is an inherent hiss which is noticeable while playing quiet passages in 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz sampled songs while on BitPerfect. I have no means to try digital input other than through USB but this is evident with the USB connection with an iPhone and through my Macbook Air. Going on battery power does nothing to eliminate the hiss. The other digital filters have a blacker background which is surely hiss-free. While using Audirvana, the hiss is present even if I pause the track playing which I believe is due to Audirvana's device hogging mode which is to say the micro iDSD is always completely connected. While say a 24/96 track is on pause, no noise is detected. On iTunes however, even on the lower sample rates, the noise disappears on pause after a few seconds though surely evident in quiet passages. 
  
 I prefer using Audirvana Plus over iTunes so the hiss is a big problem for me. The solution would always be to switch the Digital Filter setting to Minimum Phase while playing tracks with said quiet passages.


----------



## g3act

I think the iUSB would probably solve the problem, as I'm sure I read somewhere that the USB receiver chip draws power from the USB line.
  
 Just need someone with both to confirm it before I drop £175 on one.


----------



## maricius

g3act said:


> I think the iUSB would probably solve the problem, as I'm sure I read somewhere that the USB receiver chip draws power from the USB line.
> 
> Just need someone with both to confirm it before I drop £175 on one.


 
  
 I doubt it. The noise problem with the iDSD for me has never been with dirty USB power. If it did, I would expect at least a small improvement with the hiss with changing the source of power from USB power to its own battery power. I hear no improvements.


----------



## ClieOS

The hiss is definitely not from the USB power line, I can tell you that much, as the same Bit Perfect hiss is still there when micro iDSD is running purely on battery OTG to an Android phone with 44.1kHz and 48kHz music. Also, micro iDSD doesn't draw power when it is on battery mode.


----------



## BillsonChang007

I do get slight background hisses when using power from USB not battery but that's mainly because of my stock motherboard and it's really bad. It was worse with my FiiO stacks but the iFi is less. Non when using power from built in battery. iPurfier doing it's glory I guess


----------



## john57

I have many classical redbook files with soft parts and I am unable to here the hiss with any of my headphones except for music based on old analog masters which does have quite a bit of hiss.  I do know that the headphone amp on my micro is more quiet than my SS amps which I can hear the hiss when the gain is turned up at max.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

clieos said:


> Okay, I think I have it mostly figure out. First of, as we have said, Bit Perfect is NOS. One of the character of NOS is it doesn't have any brick wall filter that cuts everything off around 20kHz (where Standard and Minimum Phase are both filter than cut off at around 20kHz). This is one of the reason why it is more noisy. In a sense you can say Bit Perfect is actually filter-less. If you were to play around the PC setting carefully, you will notice these hiss in Bit Perfect filter only occur in 44.1kHz and 48kHz sampling rate, but not with higher sampling rate. My guess is, because higher sampling rate pushes the noise higher into the inaudible range, you don't detect them anymore. On the lower sampling rate, you can still detect the sampling noise as hiss. On the Standard and Minimum Phase filter, sampling noise is just filtered out.
> 
> Now why can't you hear hiss in S/PDIF? My guess is, the S/PDIF in micro iDSD is configured to run on higher sampling rate by default, therefore it has the same effect as on PC setting with higher sampling rate, thus the sampling noise is simply being pushed higher than what we can hear.




Actually the opposite could be true, it is not as resolving as the USB, so you don't hear the "tape hiss", from recordings that started out in the analog domain. Have you determined if the music you are hearing this from started in analog?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks for posting the Manuel . In reading it . Am I understanding USB and both type spidif do dsd 128 and lower. . ??? 

Like the Hugo does .

Al


----------



## ClieOS

wildcatsare1 said:


> Actually the opposite could be true, it is not as resolving as the USB, so you don't hear the "tape hiss", from recordings that started out in the analog domain. Have you determined if the music you are hearing this from started in analog?


 
  
 I am using a silence track for all the testing, so it is impossible for the "recording" to have any effect on how the micro iDSD behave.


----------



## semeniub

clieos said:


> The hiss is definitely not from the USB power line, I can tell you that much, as the same Bit Perfect hiss is still there when micro iDSD is running purely on battery OTG to an Android phone with 44.1kHz and 48kHz music. Also, micro iDSD doesn't draw power when it is on battery mode.


 
 Sorry for the long response to your post...
  
 It doesn't matter if you are using the Micro in battery mode or not, and it doesn't matter what type of source you have (portable or computer). EMI (electro-magnetic interference) from all the electronic operations going on in your source will make their way down your USB cable to the micro, and this could be the "hiss" in some cases.
  
 I use the bitperfect filter setting almost exclusively, and I haven't noticed the hiss yet in any cases. I also use extreme USB connection solutions to the micro though. I learned this lesson long ago with other DAC's when I was trying to find blacker backgrounds. Until fairly recently, it was better to use USB-SPDIF reclockers to remove the background noise and jitter since USB connections were not up to snuff. Today, the USB cabling/connection options and the micro's advanced clocks can achieve the same thing.
  
 I will also do a few tests with the USB cable which came with the micro to see if I can notice some hiss in quiet passages in the music.


----------



## maricius

alrainbow said:


> Thanks for posting the Manuel . In reading it . Am I understanding USB and both type spidif do dsd 128 and lower. . ???
> 
> Like the Hugo does .
> 
> Al


 
  
 USB can play any format but SPDIF/Coaxial maxes out at 24/192 PCM


----------



## maricius

semeniub said:


> Sorry for the long response to your post...
> 
> It doesn't matter if you are using the Micro in battery mode or not, and it doesn't matter what type of source you have (portable or computer). EMI (electro-magnetic interference) from all the electronic operations going on in your source will make their way down your USB cable to the micro, and this could be the "hiss" in some cases.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Since you're already on Audirvana Plus, go on device hog mode and connect the iDSD with the stock blue USB cable direct to your computer. Play a 44.1 track with all upsampling on Audirvana turned off and the BitPerfect Digital Filter turned on. Pause the track after it starts playing and turn up the volume past your listening level and the hiss is very evident. Why I also don't think this is EMI is because while hearing this hiss and changing into Minimum Phase or Standard, the hiss disappears. Why I ask you turn up the volume past your normal listening level is because all my headphones have varying degrees of its revealing of noise, my Fidelio L2 being the most sensitive in this case shows much more than my very sensitive FAD Heaven VI IEM. Again, I'm certain unless the other two Digital Filters are capable of removing EMI. 
  
 Correct me if you've tried this and still experience no noise. If you still don't, I believe some of us have faulty units.
  


john57 said:


> I have many classical redbook files with soft parts and I am unable to here the hiss with any of my headphones except for music based on old analog masters which does have quite a bit of hiss.  I do know that the headphone amp on my micro is more quiet than my SS amps which I can hear the hiss when the gain is turned up at max.


 
  
 I agree that the headphone amp and the DAC on Minimum Phase is the most quiet DAC/amp I've heard. On settings where listening level is at 12 o'clock, maxing out the volume pot and still no noise. I'd only hear noise form the unit when the amp section are on settings where 12 o'clock would make me deaf. However, the noise on BitPerfect is something too blatant. It's a different kind noise compared to a noisy amplifier. Amplifier background noise sounds like a TV on a broken or unconnected channel. BitPerfect's noise is more reminiscent of a high pitched hiss.
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> Actually the opposite could be true, it is not as resolving as the USB, so you don't hear the "tape hiss", from recordings that started out in the analog domain. Have you determined if the music you are hearing this from started in analog?


 
  
 The things that start from analog like Vinyl turned digital actually have no issues with the BitPerfect hiss as they're all 24/96. All my heavily processed hip-hop and even sparsely recorded acoustic tracks (though not live) have hiss on BitPerfect and not on the filters. I don't think the question is in the resolution of USB compared to the resolution of SPDIF.


----------



## semeniub

maricius said:


> Since you're already on Audirvana Plus, go on device hog mode and connect the iDSD with the stock blue USB cable direct to your computer. Play a 44.1 track with all upsampling on Audirvana turned off and the BitPerfect Digital Filter turned on. Pause the track after it starts playing and turn up the volume past your listening level and the hiss is very evident. Why I also don't think this is EMI is because while hearing this hiss and changing into Minimum Phase or Standard, the hiss disappears. Why I ask you turn up the volume past your normal listening level is because all my headphones have varying degrees of its revealing of noise, my Fidelio L2 being the most sensitive in this case shows much more than my very sensitive FAD Heaven VI IEM. Again, I'm certain unless the other two Digital Filters are capable of removing EMI.
> 
> Correct me if you've tried this and still experience no noise. If you still don't, I believe some of us have faulty units.


 
 I can certainly check that out later today and report back.


----------



## ClieOS

semeniub said:


> Sorry for the long response to your post...
> 
> It doesn't matter if you are using the Micro in battery mode or not, and it doesn't matter what type of source you have (portable or computer). EMI (electro-magnetic interference) from all the electronic operations going on in your source will make their way down your USB cable to the micro, and this could be the "hiss" in some cases.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A few things I think you might want to know about my rig - first of, my PC has no EMI issue at all. I have quite a few other portable amps that does suffer from EMI issue, and it is one of the quality I tested for all my portable amps' review, thus I know whether there is an EMI issue or not. Second, micro iDSD has the iPurifier built-in to filter out EMI from the USB input, therefore it should not suffer from any EMI at all. It can't be a dirty USB power as I have taken measurement over my USB port over the years and I can confirm it is clean (*not to mention I have iUSB Power as well). Jitter should not be a problem for micro iDSD as well because it is running on USB async mode. Thus whatever reason that causes the hiss can't originate from my PC. Yet, I can still hear the same hiss in Bit Perfect mode in lower sampling rate with my PC. Now another interesting observation I have picked up is that the hiss only occurs when there is a signal presents - say when I played the silence track (regardless of USB, OTG or S/PDIF), the hiss will be there. But once the signal stop, the hiss will be gone after a few seconds (*above only applies to Bit Perfect mode on lower sampling rate but not other setting). That doesn't make sense if the hiss is caused my some kind of EMI since that will present regardless of whether I am playing music or now.  EMI also shouldn't only present only in Bit Perfect lower sampling rate but not on Bit Perfect higher sampling rate. If it is there, it should be there all the time, given there is no filter regardless.
  
 Try this: Set your PC setting on micro iDSD to 16/44.1, set the micro iDSD to Bit Perfect, download the silence track >here<, play it back with micro iDSD and check for yourself. Listen to the same track with other filters at the same time. Now you have to set the PC setting to 16/44.1 (or 16/48) or else the test will be invalid.
  
 As far as my own opinion goes, the hissing is just part of the normal NOS characteristic. I have other NOS devices as well and they are almost always noisier than your usual oversampling DAC. Some just implement another Butterworth filter in analog to roll off above 15kHz (which is more like combining Bit Perfect with Minimum Phase together).


----------



## WriterHead

clieos said:


> A few things I think you might want to know about my rig - first of, my PC has no EMI issue at all. I have quite a few other portable amps that does suffer from EMI issue, and it is one of the quality I tested for all my portable amps' review, thus I know whether there is an EMI issue or not. Second, micro iDSD has the iPurifier built-in to filter out EMI from the USB input, therefore it should not suffer from any EMI at all. It can't be a dirty USB power as I have taken measurement over my USB port over the years and I can confirm it is clean (*not to mention I have iUSB Power as well). Jitter should not be a problem for micro iDSD as well because it is running on USB async mode. Thus whatever reason that causes the hiss can't originate from my PC. Yet, I can still hear the same hiss in Bit Perfect mode in lower sampling rate with my PC. *Now another interesting observation I have picked up is that the hiss only occurs when there is a signal presents - say when I played the silence track (regardless of USB, OTG or S/PDIF), the hiss will be there. But once the signal stop, the hiss will be gone after a few seconds *(*above only applies to Bit Perfect mode on lower sampling rate but not other setting). That doesn't make sense if the hiss is caused my some kind of EMI since that will present regardless of whether I am playing music or now.  EMI also shouldn't only present only in Bit Perfect lower sampling rate but not on Bit Perfect higher sampling rate. If it is there, it should be there all the time, given there is no filter regardless.
> 
> Try this: Set your PC setting on micro iDSD to 16/44.1, set the micro iDSD to Bit Perfect, download the silence track >here<, play it back with micro iDSD and check for yourself. Listen to the same track with other filters at the same time. Now you have to set the PC setting to 16/44.1 (or 16/48) or else the test will be invalid.
> 
> As far as my own opinion goes, the hissing is just part of the normal NOS characteristic. I have other NOS devices as well and they are almost always noisier than your usual oversampling DAC. Some just implement another Butterworth filter in analog to roll off above 15kHz (which is more like combining Bit Perfect with Minimum Phase together).


 
  
  
  
  
 I have found the same with iphone 4 > iDSD micro > LCD2 playing .aac 16/44. I have not tried with high res files, but simply changing the filter to Minimum Phase or Standard gets rid of the noise (fortunately, as I would have returned the unit otherwise).


----------



## ClieOS

When it comes to NOS vs. oversampling, the debate of which sounds better can be every bit as heated as standard vs. HD files or PCM vs. DSD. The good thing is you get to make all the choice yourself with micro iDSD and don't have to settle for just one.


----------



## WriterHead

¿Have you found the Xbass mode very subtle? In other amps I have tried is much more evident (C5, cmoy BB). It's not that my LCD2 really needs it, anyway.
  
 Digital polarity is another option that puzzles me (as well as the other filters), as I have found no difference at all.


----------



## john57

Digital polarity is a hard one to tell a difference. The one time I was able to hear a difference is when one of the recording mics recorded out phase with the others.


----------



## pearljam50000

So is the micro 90% of the Hugo or less?


----------



## ClieOS

writerhead said:


> ¿Have you found the Xbass mode very subtle? In other amps I have tried is much more evident (C5, cmoy BB). It's not that my LCD2 really needs it, anyway.
> 
> Digital polarity is another option that puzzles me (as well as the other filters), as I have found no difference at all.


 
  
 The XBass is indeed more subtle on the micro iDSD, which runs to about +5dB @ 20Hz. In comparison, you get about +7.5dB @ 20Hz for nano iCAN and +6.5dB @ 20Hz for micro iCAN. It is also more of a sub-bass boost rather than wide bass boost as most of the boost is well under 100Hz and peak out under 20Hz, as opposite to JDS Labs C5 where it peaks +16.6dB @ 20Hz and goes all the way up to 500Hz.
  
 Have no opinion on digital polarity as I also find little use of it.


----------



## WriterHead

13 hours charging from 0% battery with the stock blue cable and ipad charger (which is supposed to be the faster method) and the blue light is still on, is this normal?
  

  
 ipad or macbook pro only take about 6h for a full charge.


----------



## BillsonChang007

It's normal. It took me over night and a half morning to charge my Micro iDSD from red to full 

After all, 4 500 mAh battery capacity is huge


----------



## WriterHead

billsonchang007 said:


> It's normal. It took me over night and a half morning to charge my Micro iDSD from red to full
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 But that is smaller capacity than the battery in the iPad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It has finally charged in *15h 30m*. Seems surprisingly slow to me (using a 2A ipad charger).


----------



## BillsonChang007

I am guessing it's because of USB's limitation or something but I have no nothing to back it up. Just a random thought. 

PS: has everyone sent a selfie with their Micro iDSD/Octa tshirt to iFi? I am having difficulty to take one. It's first in my live time... [I'm anti-social ikr]


----------



## chawya22

billsonchang007 said:


> I am guessing it's because of USB's limitation or something but I have no nothing to back it up. Just a random thought.
> 
> PS: has everyone sent a selfie with their Micro iDSD/Octa tshirt to iFi? I am having difficulty to take one. It's first in my live time... [I'm anti-social ikr]


 
 Was there some notice about doing a selfie. I've heard nothing.


----------



## semeniub

clieos said:


> A few things I think you might want to know about my rig - first of, my PC has no EMI issue at all. I have quite a few other portable amps that does suffer from EMI issue, and it is one of the quality I tested for all my portable amps' review, thus I know whether there is an EMI issue or not. Second, micro iDSD has the iPurifier built-in to filter out EMI from the USB input, therefore it should not suffer from any EMI at all. It can't be a dirty USB power as I have taken measurement over my USB port over the years and I can confirm it is clean (*not to mention I have iUSB Power as well). Jitter should not be a problem for micro iDSD as well because it is running on USB async mode. Thus whatever reason that causes the hiss can't originate from my PC. Yet, I can still hear the same hiss in Bit Perfect mode in lower sampling rate with my PC. Now another interesting observation I have picked up is that the hiss only occurs when there is a signal presents - say when I played the silence track (regardless of USB, OTG or S/PDIF), the hiss will be there. But once the signal stop, the hiss will be gone after a few seconds (*above only applies to Bit Perfect mode on lower sampling rate but not other setting). That doesn't make sense if the hiss is caused my some kind of EMI since that will present regardless of whether I am playing music or now.  EMI also shouldn't only present only in Bit Perfect lower sampling rate but not on Bit Perfect higher sampling rate. If it is there, it should be there all the time, given there is no filter regardless.
> 
> Try this: Set your PC setting on micro iDSD to 16/44.1, set the micro iDSD to Bit Perfect, download the silence track >here<, play it back with micro iDSD and check for yourself. Listen to the same track with other filters at the same time. Now you have to set the PC setting to 16/44.1 (or 16/48) or else the test will be invalid.
> 
> As far as my own opinion goes, the hissing is just part of the normal NOS characteristic. I have other NOS devices as well and they are almost always noisier than your usual oversampling DAC. Some just implement another Butterworth filter in analog to roll off above 15kHz (which is more like combining Bit Perfect with Minimum Phase together).


 
 I was able to try this out with my LCD2's, and with the micro in normal power mode, and with high sensitivity set to off, I was only able to hear the noise of the silence track with the volume position at 3 o'clock. The noise went away by switching from bitperfect to the other filter settings.
  
 So yes, I can confirm it's there, but in my case, the noise occurred at a volume level that would blow your head off in normal listening conditions. Lucky enough for me and my setup, this doesn't concern me for all practical purposes but I can understand where someone else maybe more strongly affected.
  
 Fortunately, you can always use the other filter settings and the problem goes away.
  
 Hopefully iFi follows this thread, and can eventually weigh in with an opinion.


----------



## WriterHead

I am playing this alac 16/44 file and the led is white. Isn't it supposed to be green?


----------



## semeniub

For anyone interested, here is the frequency spectrum of the Silence test file. The levels are pretty low, and I know that most of my music files don't look like that.


----------



## maricius

writerhead said:


> I am playing this alac 16/44 file and the led is white. Isn't it supposed to be green?


 
  
 Are you using iTunes? Open the Audio Midi application!! Maybe your iDSD is set to upsample.


----------



## maricius

semeniub said:


> I was able to try this out with my LCD2's, and with the micro in normal power mode, and with high sensitivity set to off, I was only able to hear the noise of the silence track with the volume position at 3 o'clock. The noise went away by switching from bitperfect to the other filter settings.
> 
> So yes, I can confirm it's there, but in my case, the noise occurred at a volume level that would blow your head off in normal listening conditions. Lucky enough for me and my setup, this doesn't concern me for all practical purposes but I can understand where someone else maybe more strongly affected.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I guess we should all buy a LCD 2 then. HAHAHA


----------



## semeniub

maricius said:


> I guess we should all buy a LCD 2 then. HAHAHA


 
 iFi can pass them out to all beta testers (early adopters)!
  
 Hopefully they can also look at the thread and comment on what's happening in the filters.


----------



## john57

That noise level with the bit perfect seems to be quite low below -120db? until you get to 15k


----------



## KmanChu

john57 said:


> That noise level with the bit perfect seems to be quite low below -120db? until you get to 15k


 
 Yeah, and even below -100 all the way to 20k, I doubt people would notice that hiss unless they were listening with the volume jacked waaaay up.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Exactly. I think some play with things and then post it. My office rig is about 6K in total audio watts . I hear no audioble hiss or hum , but a low hiss if I put my head to the mid tweeter towers. Am I sooner to say I hear a hum or hiss like this. It's the same for headphones unless I turn things a loud there is nothing really to hear unless the music is playing . This is why I say it's the recordings but indongetbthe point mAde here though. . For the 500 bucks I paid this is a giant killer. By later tonight I shloud have the mini post done . In will do a seperate thread and post a link. This thing really did surprise me some and it proves my point that CIEMS and headphones make a big difference in us trying to evaluate our audio. Things makes me wonder hiw some can do a review with CIEM,s at all. Or maybe my brain or ewes is old. 
Al


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks Al, waiting for your post and impressions ^_^


----------



## RadioWonder737

chawya22 said:


> Was there some notice about doing a selfie. I've heard nothing.


 
 When you join the iClub they ask you for one in your "*T*-*Shirt Octa* The Octopus"... They plan to do a video with all the members...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Almost another three hours into today's listning sessions. I have been writng my own notes as I observe it's a strange brew to mange 

Some points very clear others a little murky and some oddities that are almost painfull to realize. 
all in all I almost done and want to put things together in a clear and concise manner . And if you people have read my confusing post,s imagine the task for me to try and fix my ramblings 

It will be nice and not attacking any device and strictly just the music I am playing with just two means of listening . 

Al


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^Well Al, we await your noted ramblings, lol!!!


----------



## chawya22

radiowonder737 said:


> When you join the iClub they ask you for one in your "*T*-*Shirt Octa* The Octopus"... They plan to do a video with all the members...


 
 Thanks, I guess I missed that.


----------



## ClieOS

I won't say the hiss is as low as -120dB. It is more like -60dB ~ -70dB to me. But that's still very low and it should be well masked by most music. There is however still a chance to hear it very faintly if you are listening to old classical recording that have very big dynamic. Not that big of a deal anyway.


----------



## alphaman

Many modern manufs. of similar products (e.g., HiFiMan, Colorfly), have an open-book policy as far as which chipset and/or opmaps they are using.
 For AMR Audio (UK) products like iFi, I'm having a hard time finding these "Manufacturer specs" either on iFi's official web site, e-zine reviews or forum threads/blogs...
 ...so ... what's the big mystery ... what's under the hood?
 We can start with "its special Dual-Core Burr-Brown native DSD/PCM chipset at the heart"... methinks it's TI's DSD1793 ... you folks (owners of the product  help us out with the rest of the chipset details ... 
 ClieOS said in his review of the Nano: "OPA1642 for gain stage, followed by MAX9722 as buffer. " 
 Well, CliOS  ... since we can see from that review you may know how to use a screwdriver ... 

 ... go ahead with the rest of the tear-down ... it won't bite


----------



## ClieOS

alphaman said:


> Many modern manufs. of similar products (e.g., HiFiMan, Colorfly), have an open-book policy as far as which chipset and/or opmaps they are using.
> For AMR Audio (UK) products like iFi, I'm having a hard time finding these "Manufacturer specs" either on iFi's official web site, e-zine reviews or forum threads/blogs...
> ...so ... what's the big mystery ... what's under the hood?
> We can start with "its special Dual-Core Burr-Brown native DSD/PCM chipset at the heart"... methinks it's TI's DSD1793 ... you folks (owners of the product  help us out with the rest of the chipset details ...
> ...


 
  
 That screwdriver is not for opening the nano iDSD (which uses hex bit btw), but for adjusting the tiny gain switch.
  
 Anyway, micro iDSD is not something I'll open up. The reason is that those tiny switches all around the case are actually quite an nightmare to try to slide out. A little bit too much force will definitely break them off from the PCB, hence I decided it is not worth the risk to disassemble them.
  
 Btw, some of the early prototype pictures can be found on the original micro iDSD crowd-design thread, if anyone is interested.


----------



## john57

alphaman said:


> Many modern manufs. of similar products (e.g., HiFiMan, Colorfly), have an open-book policy as far as which chipset and/or opmaps they are using.
> For AMR Audio (UK) products like iFi, I'm having a hard time finding these "Manufacturer specs" either on iFi's official web site, e-zine reviews or forum threads/blogs...
> ...so ... what's the big mystery ... what's under the hood?
> We can start with "its special Dual-Core Burr-Brown native DSD/PCM chipset at the heart"... methinks it's TI's DSD1793 ... you folks (owners of the product  help us out with the rest of the chipset details ...
> "


 
  
 It is no big secret that IFI is using the DSD1793 chip it is mention 25 times in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-page-124
  
 One page one there is table of contents explaining the design for each feature. That tells me how the product is lay out and how it suppose to function and tells me more than a parts list would. There already has been pictures of all the internal working of the micro available.   IFI in my option is quite open.


----------



## BillsonChang007

chawya22 said:


> Thanks, I guess I missed that.




You will need to sign up for the iClub and one of them will tell you about it... 

Day xxxxxx, I am still trying to take a selfie. How can some people just snap 5 photos of themselves in the toilet in less than 10mins while I take so long...


----------



## alphaman

Thx .... I found the "Crowd-Designed" thread shortly after I posted my above query .... not sure how much of the stuff shown in the images actually made it on to final hold-in-your-hand product you get after the lascivious unboxing ... but I stole this from that thread ...

  ... but these threads are far too long and complex for a simpleton like moi to wade thru ... I'm still waitin' for the decoder/FPGA and other "important"  component lists. 
  
 Also, a HUGE criticism goes out to iSi for inventing confusing/inaccurate marketing jargon: 
 "Dual-Core Burr-Brown DACs". DUAL-CORE. ... D--U--A--L---C--O--R--E
 I searched the TI site looking for their latest n' greatest  "Dual-Core Burr-Brown DACs" ...
 Dear maunfs.: if you use two (2) DACs for stereo, say dual-dac or dual-mono ,etc.


----------



## chawya22

billsonchang007 said:


> You will need to sign up for the iClub and one of them will tell you about it...
> 
> Day xxxxxx, I am still trying to take a selfie. How can some people just snap 5 photos of themselves in the toilet in less than 10mins while I take so long...


 
 I registered/signed up a month ago. I'm not really concerned about the selfie, but I don't want to miss out on important announcements. Did you receive an email about this selfie thing? I think I'll contact them to make sure my registration went through.


----------



## roamling

billsonchang007 said:


> You will need to sign up for the iClub and one of them will tell you about it...
> 
> Day xxxxxx, I am still trying to take a selfie. How can some people just snap 5 photos of themselves in the toilet in less than 10mins while I take so long...


 
  
 whatever you do, dont get yourself hurt or worse. taking these so called "selfies" has potential for Darwin awards for some people


----------



## BillsonChang007

chawya22 said:


> I registered/signed up a month ago. I'm not really concerned about the selfie, but I don't want to miss out on important announcements. Did you receive an email about this selfie thing? I think I'll contact them to make sure my registration went through.



Don't worry, iFi said no one gets left behind  



roamling said:


> whatever you do, dont get yourself hurt or worse. taking these so called "selfies" has potential for Darwin awards for some people




I am already bad at taking pics of my "toys" and the selfie thing is kind of extreme to me. I can't properly snap one. Can I just use Lego man to replace me instead already? xD


----------



## technobear

alphaman said:


> ... but these threads are far too long and complex for a simpleton like moi to wade thru ... I'm still waitin' for the decoder/FPGA and other "important"  component lists.




Not only is all the information you require found in that thread, the very first post contains an INDEX of important posts where all is explained


----------



## WriterHead

maricius said:


> Are you using iTunes? Open the Audio Midi application!! Maybe your iDSD is set to upsample.


 
 You were right, it was set to upsample. I have changed the midi settings to 44Khz and now the light is green with 16/44 files. 
  
 By the way, I registered my iDSD micro two days ago but I have not received any confirmation email from ifi yet.


----------



## RadioWonder737

If you would like to see a "Complete Micro iDSD Teardown",check the link... With Large Photos...
http://audio-gizmo.com/ifi-idsd-micro-tear/


----------



## ClieOS

radiowonder737 said:


> If you would like to see a "Complete Micro iDSD Teardown",check the link... With Large Photos...
> http://audio-gizmo.com/ifi-idsd-micro-tear/


 
  
 Brave guy. I can see one of the switches has been damaged, which is exactly why I don't want to open mine. But thanks to him I have most of the circuit figured out.


----------



## john57

Not only that, the battery pads have been torn as well. I noticed that there is a four gang pot being used.


----------



## Sergiusz OMD

Hello guys
  
 Can someone confirm whether iDSD Micro can be connect with the iUSB via the dual head Gemini cable with adapter from the iDSD package? Thanks for reply in advance.


----------



## RadioWonder737

sergiusz omd said:


> Hello guys
> 
> Can someone confirm whether iDSD Micro can be connect with the iUSB via the dual head Gemini cable with adapter from the iDSD package? Thanks for reply in advance.


 
 Yes,but it is a little loose in my installation... I wish I had a custom Gemini Cable (Micro iDSD Edition) with the correct connectors...
 Black circles on connectors and iRack are fo.Q TA-102 Damping Tape...
http://www.foq.jp/foqhp_e/product/ta102.html


----------



## alphaman

radiowonder737 said:


> If you would like to see a "Complete Micro iDSD Teardown",check the link... With Large Photos...
> http://audio-gizmo.com/ifi-idsd-micro-tear/


 
 I vote this as the most-useful post in this thread


----------



## roamling

radiowonder737 said:


> I wish I had a custom Gemini Cable (Micro iDSD Edition) with the correct connectors...


 
  
 That is an idea I had as well! What about a ifi USB cable micro iDSD Edition...


----------



## semeniub

Listening to Lipstick Sunset by John Hiatt right now - just a wonderful sound from the Micro. I guess that it's finished breaking in now. 
  
 If it sounds like this for this price, what's the upcoming Mini iDSD, and Retro 50 going to sound like?


----------



## KmanChu

semeniub said:


> Listening to Lipstick Sunset by John Hiatt right now - just a wonderful sound from the Micro. I guess that it's finished breaking in now.
> 
> If it sounds like this for this price, what's the upcoming Mini iDSD, and Retro 50 going to sound like?


 
 My guess is it will be like going from the nano to the micro. The nano was by all accounts a great sounding device, the micro is just more clarity,  more dynamic, etc while having hte same basic non-offensive "analog" sound.


----------



## semeniub

kmanchu said:


> My guess is it will be like going from the nano to the micro. The nano was by all accounts a great sounding device, the micro is just more clarity,  more dynamic, etc while having hte same basic non-offensive "analog" sound.


 
 You're probably right. More of the same house sound, just better.


----------



## Mudshark

I really enjoy the sound of the ifi micro iDSD, but I am having a problem with loud 'pops' when I stop a DSD file from playing and when a playlist of DSD files finishes playing, at which point the iDSD's light changes automatically from light blue to yellow.
  
 The loud pop only occurs when I am using DoP (Audirvana Plus v1.5.12, HQPlayer for Mac (latest beta) and JRMC 20 for Windows).  The pop does not occur when using ASIO (JRMC 20 for Windows).
  
 I do not get such a pop when using Audirvana Plus v1.5.12 into my OPPO BDP-105D using DoP, and I did not get such a pop when I used Audirvana Plus v1.5.12 into my former TEAC UD-501 (again, DoP).
  
 This leads me to conclude that there is an issue with the iDSD on DoP, or at least that there is a potential problem with my particular iDSD unit.
  
 I think I have tried every conceivable setting in Audirvana Plus v1.5.12 and nothing seems to reduce the pop.
  
 I have an open ticket on this issue with ifi, and a tech support rep has been diligently trying to help me, but so far nothing has worked.  Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas about what I can do or try?  Thanks!


----------



## john57

Almost the same house sound. I find that coming from the Nano to the micro PCM sounded much better in native form than having to convert to DSD for example. As for the headphone amp, IFI/AMR hit it out of the ball park for clarity and power in the micro. My cheap planar headphone never sound better on any other amp!


----------



## MLGrado

mudshark said:


> I really enjoy the sound of the ifi micro iDSD, but I am having a problem with loud 'pops' when I stop a DSD file from playing and when a playlist of DSD files finishes playing, at which point the iDSD's light changes automatically from light blue to yellow.
> 
> The loud pop only occurs when I am using DoP (Audirvana Plus v1.5.12, HQPlayer for Mac (latest beta) and JRMC 20 for Windows).  The pop does not occur when using ASIO (JRMC 20 for Windows).
> 
> ...


 
 This has been covered earlier in the thread. 
  
 It is an issue with DoP and native DSD playback.  Because DSD is a noiseshaped format that requires information from the previous sample, what you are hearing is the distortion caused by the sample being, well, wrong in the new context.  PCM doesn't suffer from this, since every sample stands on its own, and zero output means exactly that.. zero output. 
  
 I don't fully understand all the technicals behind it, but the issue is worse with DoP.  There are strategies to minimize it, though.  Read this...
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/pop-goes-dsd-why-does-this-happen/
  
  
 I just use native ASIO steaming.  Hardly any pops or clicks at all, regardless of format.  The reason your Oppo doesn't suffer so much, is, well, DSD goes through a long stream of DSP before it ever hits the actual digital to analog conversion, and by that point is a multi-bit signal that probably is best described as somewhere between DSD and PCM.  Whatever it is, it isn't the same as pure PCM or DSD anymore.  
  
 The iDSD, on the other hand, applies no DSP to the DSD signal, and is converted directly in Burr Brown's proprietary FIR filter.  Little to no signal processing at all.  The only digital processing would be the delay line that is part of any FIR filter design.  
  
 Now that said, the Teac you mentioned SHOULD be similar to the iFi in how it handles DSD.  With that being the case, I can only guess there is some proprietary processing going on in the Teac's programming.  iFi has its own quite capable software team in house, and if there were a way to fix this issue on 'their' side without compromising sound quality in some way, they would have done it.  
  
  
 EDIT.. I played around with JRMC settings a bit, and the only pop I get is when switching from DSD to PCM.  Switching from DSD to DSD, PCM to PCM, or PCM to DSD is clean via DoP.  There is a slight pop, though, going from DSD to PCM.  Nothing I would be too concerned about, other than it is a bit annoying.  Again, using ASIO, clean as can be.


----------



## RadioWonder737

This is what I did first to prevent "Pops" just in checking Boxes... No problems with my system...
 For JRiver, the solution is to:
  
 1) ENABLE under Audio -> Settings "play silence at startup for hardware synchronisation" to at least 1sec
 2) ENABLE under WASAPI Output mode Settings "Play a little silence on DoP stop"
 3) DISABLE under Track Change "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)"
 4) ENABLE under Track Change Gappless or "Use Gapless for for sequential audio tracks"
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/105#post_10762646


----------



## Mudshark

mlgrado said:


> EDIT.. I played around with JRMC settings a bit, and the only pop I get is when switching from DSD to PCM.  Switching from DSD to DSD, PCM to PCM, or PCM to DSD is clean via DoP.  There is a slight pop, though, going from DSD to PCM.  Nothing I would be too concerned about, other than it is a bit annoying.  Again, using ASIO, clean as can be.


 
  
 Thanks, MLGrado.  I would like to use ASIO with my MacBook Pro and Audirvana Plus, but that is not an option, at least not currently.
  
 My iDSD suffers from DSD playback-ending loud pops on JRMC 20 for Windows when using DoP but is all but silent when using ASIO with JRMC 20 for Windows. 
  
 In general, I greatly prefer the MBP with A+ to my Windows 7 laptop with JRMC 20.  That is why I am trying to get the iDSD to be pop-free on the MBP/A+.  But based on your post, it seems like it could be a lost cause.  That is, unless others using A+ do not have the issue that I do, in which case it would appear that my particular iDSD has a problem.  Thanks again.


----------



## MLGrado

I would keep playing with settings.. And yeah, no ASIO on Mac... 
  
 I still find it interesting that the TEAC doens't suffer from similar.  It uses a similar chip as the iFi.  Well, similar in basic architecture.  Although it is newer, many feel that the newer Burr Brown chips, after they were bought out by Texas Instruments, are inferior performers.  But, it SHOULD use the same technique for DSD conversion, so I would think it should have similar issues.  
  
  
 But one never knows what REALLY goes on inside these 'black boxes'.


----------



## MLGrado

radiowonder737 said:


> This is what I did first to prevent "Pops" just in checking Boxes... No problems with my system...
> For JRiver, the solution is to:
> 
> 1) ENABLE under Audio -> Settings "play silence at startup for hardware synchronisation" to at least 1sec
> ...


 
 yeah, those settings MOSTLY kill it for me.. Still get a slight pop going from DSD to PCM.  ASIO Native still seems to be the only way to truly eliminate it.  
  
 The variance in results, though, and the fact that Jriver has a setting specifically devoted to reducing clicks with DSD playback, says a lot about this being way more than just an iFi iDSD issue.  
  
 The programming required to make a DAC work with multiple software players, multiple formats, on multiple hardware configurations must be immensely difficult.  The fact that iFi actually has their own in house software team, rather than simply using off the shelf components and programming, is also an impressive testament to their devotion to top audio quality.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Most dacs are quite. I am thinking the ifi micro is new to j river and they are working on it. Meaning j river is working on it. It's silent for me except when I turn it on. It's a tiny pop nothing to talk about but if I have dop checked watch out. Does it do any pops with foo bar ?? On optical from the HDP r10 there is almost nothing as a ell just some odd stuff sometimes. This I do blame ifi for they need to mute things as others must be doing. 
Al


----------



## john57

radiowonder737 said:


> This is what I did first to prevent "Pops" just in checking Boxes... No problems with my system...
> For JRiver, the solution is to:
> 
> 1) ENABLE under Audio -> Settings "play silence at startup for hardware synchronisation" to at least 1sec
> ...


 
 J.River has those options long before IFI DSD's came to the scene meaning it was a problem with a few other DAC's  J.River did not add those features for nothing.


----------



## earfonia

radiowonder737 said:


> If you would like to see a "Complete Micro iDSD Teardown",check the link... With Large Photos...
> http://audio-gizmo.com/ifi-idsd-micro-tear/


 
  
 Whoa... thanks for the link!
 I hope he will posts step-by-step guide to replace the Micro iDSD battery when the battery life has been degraded in the next few years... 
  
 Just got mine last Monday, and just finish the 24 hours initial battery charging.
 So far so good, fantastic combo with Philips X1, excellent detail and dynamic!


----------



## Krutsch

mlgrado said:


> *I would keep playing with settings.. And yeah, no ASIO on Mac... *


 
  
 Ha Ha... I can't believe that Head-Fi'ers continue to fool with PCs.  Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?


----------



## john57

earfonia said:


> Whoa... thanks for the link!
> I hope he will posts step-by-step guide to replace the Micro iDSD battery when the battery life has been degraded in the next few years...
> 
> Just got mine last Monday, and just finish the 24 hours initial battery charging.
> So far so good, fantastic combo with Philips X1, excellent detail and dynamic!


 
 That looks good so your replaced the stock cable that came with the headphones? How much a difference did that cable made for you?


----------



## RadioWonder737

earfonia said:


> Whoa... thanks for the link!
> I hope he will posts step-by-step guide to replace the Micro iDSD battery when the battery life has been degraded in the next few years...


 
Battery Replacement is not an end user DIY project... You need to send it to iFi Audio... This has been discussed already by iFi Audio...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-page-124/1365#post_10713255


----------



## Krutsch

radiowonder737 said:


> Battery Replacement is not an end user DIY project... You need to send it to iFi Audio... This has been discussed already by iFi Audio...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-page-124/1365#post_10713255


 
  
 Yeah... sorry crowd designers to be a buzz-kill, but this is why I am not buying one.
  
 The iDSD Micro has impressive features and, from what I've read, sounds really great; but, it is WAY too large to be portable and I don't want a battery in my desk rig, for all of the reasons evident in this thread.


----------



## earfonia

john57 said:


> That looks good so your replaced the stock cable that came with the headphones? How much a difference did that cable made for you?


 
  
 Sharp eyes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I used Oyaide HPC35. The Oyaide cable improves the treble, detail, and micro dynamic. Sounds livelier.
  
  


radiowonder737 said:


> Battery Replacement is not an end user DIY project... You need to send it to iFi Audio... This has been discussed already by iFi Audio...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-page-124/1365#post_10713255


 
  
 Right, thanks for the link!
 I hope ifi will make the battery replacement service available on more local authorized iFi service center in different countries.


----------



## Mudshark

mlgrado said:


> I would keep playing with settings.. *And yeah, no ASIO on Mac... *


 
  
 Thanks, ML.  Actually, it appears that ASIO is possible on OSX.  Exasound has released an ASIO driver for OSX that apparently works on Decibel and HQPlayer.
  
 Maybe iFi can release an ASIO driver for OSX that would do the same?  That would be cool!
  
 UPDATE: I just asked this question of iFi via my open tech support ticket.  I will report back if/when I hear anything.


----------



## KmanChu

krutsch said:


> Ha Ha... I can't believe that Head-Fi'ers continue to fool with PCs.  Oh, sorry, did I say that out loud?


 
 JRiver works great with the ASIO driver. So what's funny about that? Are more options and better functionality a bad thing?
  
  


krutsch said:


> Yeah... sorry crowd designers to be a buzz-kill, but this is why I am not buying one.
> 
> The iDSD Micro has impressive features and, from what I've read, sounds really great; but, it is WAY too large to be portable and I don't want a battery in my desk rig, for all of the reasons evident in this thread.


 
  
 Not killing our buzz, but it's really your loss to miss out on a great product. If it's too large for you then they do make the 1/2 size nano that also sounds great. The micro iDSD battery management works very well. I agree a user replacable battery would be nice, but my iDSD stays parked on my desk plugged into the iUSB Power. I put my computer to sleep, turn it off, hibernate or whatever and don't ever touch the iDSD. It runs on the iUSB Power and supplements with the battery when needed. With the constant power from the iUSB Power, battery is automatically maintained at an optimum level which makes the service life approximately equal the shelf-life. Used this way it is just a supplement for additional headphone power when needed. Of course I could take it with me and run it on battery power if I went on the road. The only thing I would have trouble deciding on is if I have room to bring my Alpha Dogs or if I should stick with IEMS. The headphone size would be the only consideration because the iDSD will run either one equally well. It really is very elegant.
  
 I do get it though. It's fun to boast about not buying into the latest, greatest, hottest thing.


----------



## Krutsch

kmanchu said:


> JRiver works great with the ASIO driver. So what's funny about that? Are more options and better functionality a bad thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're right, that's exactly what I was doing.


----------



## dcginc

Now 24 hours into my iDSD Micro.. Upon first operation harsh and brittle sounding.. Left it running all night until batt died. Will do this for a few more days.. Already sounds more fluid, warm and with depth that was lacking last night. Using my Squeezebox Touch as source. Have used iPhone too running Amplliflac app w Naim Audio 192k recordings. I'll wait a while before comparing to my grun/mjo Schiit Audio stack that preceded this..


----------



## maricius

dcginc said:


> Now 24 hours into my iDSD Micro.. Upon first operation harsh and brittle sounding.. Left it running all night until batt died. Will do this for a few more days.. Already sounds more fluid, warm and with depth that was lacking last night. Using my Squeezebox Touch as source. Have used iPhone too running Amplliflac app w Naim Audio 192k recordings. I'll wait a while before comparing to my grun/mjo Schiit Audio stack that preceded this..




Just wait for that 100 hour mark!! Surely one of the things where I've experienced the most burn in


----------



## LoryWiv

kmanchu said:


> The micro iDSD battery management works very well. I agree a user replacable battery would be nice, but my iDSD stays parked on my desk plugged into the iUSB Power. I put my computer to sleep, turn it off, hibernate or whatever and don't ever touch the iDSD. It runs on the iUSB Power and supplements with the battery when needed. With the constant power from the iUSB Power, battery is automatically maintained at an optimum level which makes the service life approximately equal the shelf-life. Used this way it is just a supplement for additional headphone power when needed. Of course I could take it with me and run it on battery power if I went on the road. The only thing I would have trouble deciding on is if I have room to bring my Alpha Dogs or if I should stick with IEMS. The headphone size would be the only consideration because the iDSD will run either one equally well. It really is very elegant.


 
 Just got my iDSD micro, intial 24 hour charge underway. I am a desktop PC guy (no laptop, I know I'm an anachronism) and would like a longer USB cable for PC out to iDSD digital USB in. That way I could run it behind my PC and not have the supplied cable dangling from a front USB port. Purpose would be to keep charged and of course use the dac / amp. from the PC source audio.
  
 I suspect a USB extender (or powered hub) may add noise, degrade or otherwise compromise the digital input signal into the iDSD, eg - alter sonic characteristics or 32 bit / 768 kHz potential performance but not sure if that is an  actual or meaningful concern....I'll listen to some 24 / 192 but unlikely beyond. I would appreciate thoughts on effects of a usb cable extender or replacing the supplied cable with a 2 meter one if anyone knows where to source one without shooting a large wad of cash....the iDSD appears to be worth every penny but was a hit to the hobby budget for certain.
  
 Thanks for any thoughts on the above.


----------



## RadioWonder737

lorywiv said:


> Just got my iDSD micro, intial 24 hour charge underway. I am a desktop PC guy (no laptop, I know I'm an anachronism) and would like a longer USB cable for PC out to iDSD digital USB in. That way I could run it behind my PC and not have the supplied cable dangling from a front USB port. Purpose would be to keep charged and of course use the dac / amp. from the PC source audio.
> 
> I suspect a USB extender (or powered hub) may add noise, degrade or otherwise compromise the digital input signal into the iDSD, eg - alter sonic characteristics or 32 bit / 768 kHz potential performance but not sure if that is an  actual or meaningful concern....I'll listen to some 24 / 192 but unlikely beyond. I would appreciate thoughts on effects of a usb cable extender or replacing the supplied cable with a 2 meter one if anyone knows where to source one without shooting a large wad of cash....the iDSD appears to be worth every penny but was a hit to the hobby budget for certain.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts on the above.


 

Not sure where you live,but Music Direct has a large selection of USB Cables... The selection starts at $35.00 and up... 
  

 AUDIOQUEST Is very popular... 
 
http://www.musicdirect.com/c-686-b-style-usb-cables.aspx?sortfield=Price&sortdirection=ASC&perpage=24&BrandFilterID=0


----------



## john57

I am using a 10 feet USB3 cable that is about the maximum you can safely use. Anything longer an active repeater USB cable may be needed(not tested). I am able to play 4xDSD and DXD without problems. Check on my posts what I have been using. Good luck you should not have any issues or degradation concerns with a 2 meter preferable a USB3 cable.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-page-124/1860#post_10828671


----------



## ClieOS

radiowonder737 said:


> Not sure where you live,but Music Direct has a large selection of USB Cables... The selection starts at $35.00 and up...
> 
> 
> AUDIOQUEST Is very popular...
> ...


 
  
 OT, but you really don't have to use a big font every time.
  
 Cheer.


----------



## technobear

john57 said:


> I am using a 10 feet USB3 cable *that is about the maximum you can safely use*.




Sorry but that just isn't true :rolleyes:

I regularly use a 5m Kimber USB cable without any problems whatsoever (that's nearly 17 feet).

I know others who use a 7m Wireworld USB cable without any problems whatsoever (that's over 23 feet).


----------



## ClieOS

The official number USB.org listed for maximum cable length are 5m for USB2.0 and 3m for USB1.1. There is no maximum cable length for USB3.0, though the USB.org still only recommend 3m.
  
 On the other hand, a good quality USB repeater is far cheaper than audiophile branded USB cable.


----------



## john57

Yes it all depends on the hardware and speed you using on the cable. The micro iDSD has the ability to handle greater data rates(DSD512 2xDXD) than many other DAC's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I still think that 7m without using a repeater is way too long for dependable and reliable communications specially if I was going to use the cable for other purposes. I do not think that IFI recommends any cable longer than 3m.   It also depends on how much distortion in the signals that the hardware can handle. I do use a repeater cable on my cellular modem to a router.


----------



## RadioWonder737

clieos said:


> OT, but you really don't have to use a big font every time.
> 
> Cheer.


 
 I apologize,I am physically handicapped... The one good eye I have is slowly fading away...


----------



## LoryWiv

john57 said:


> Yes it all depends on the hardware and speed you using on the cable. The micro iDSD has the ability to handle greater data rates(DSD512 2xDXD) than many other DAC's
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
Thanks, very helpful. So would a reasonably priced cable like the Audioquest Forest 3 meter USB B-plug be a solid choice? Also, forgive my noob-ness but does it matter if the cable is USB 3.0 rated or not for this purpose?


----------



## john57

You can not use a USB3 with type B connector even with the adapters that comes with the micro. You need USB 3.0 Type A Male to Type A Female cable. Generally USB3 is designed for faster speeds and  higher current on the power lines than USB2 provided that it is used on a USB3 port. USB3 has 9 wires plus shield and USB2 has four wires.

 You could use a USB2 cable with a type B connector with the adapters that is included with the micro. The other IFI iDSD the Nano can use USB3 or USB2 with the type B connector without using adapters.


----------



## RadioWonder737

My bad... I read wrong... Sorry I recommended the wrong USB cable...  This looks pretty heavy duty...
http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-SuperSpeed-Extension-Female-CB-US0612-S1/dp/B003P5843C/ref=sr_1_18?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1409869603&sr=1-18&keywords=C2G+USB+3.0+Type+A+Male+to+Type+A+Female+cable#cm_cr_dpwidget
  
 Another one...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H7HCX36/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1Y6FVHFMKBDS4&coliid=I1RGDCZF8GCWG&psc=1


----------



## LoryWiv

john57 said:


> You can not use a USB3 with type B connector even with the adapters that comes with the micro. You need USB 3.0 Type A Male to Type A Female cable. Generally USB3 is designed for faster speeds and  higher current on the power lines than USB2 provided that it is used on a USB3 port. USB3 has 9 wires plus shield and USB2 has four wires.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
 Ah, so what I want is just a USB 3.0 Type A male to female to lengthen the included cable. If so, sounds preferable to using an expensive replacement A --> B with adapter. Did I understand you correctly? Thanks!


----------



## john57

yep!


----------



## MLGrado

Okay, just experienced something strange, and it reminded me of a previous poster saying there was an issue in getting the iDSD to run over iUSB power rather than battery.
  
 I just experienced something similar.  Somehow my iDSD got into battery mode.  I followed proper procedure to switch it to USB bus power.  No dice.  My battery was dead, and it would not switch to USB bus power.  The solution was to physically unplug the 'wal wart' power supply from the iUSB.  This apparently reset the iUSB unit, and all is smooth sailing once again.  
  
  
 So, if anyone else runs into this, the solution seems to be resetting the iUSB power.


----------



## LoryWiv

I've looked though this thread and still, embarrassingly, am not certain what the difference is between the supplied black B plug versus blue B plug. Both appear to charge the unit and perform well for dac from my PC. It is nearly 2 AM so pride is officially out the window and I would humbly be grateful for a concise explanation of their different uses.
  
 Loving this gorgeous unit thus far. It is seriously beautiful. I'm awaiting my Senn HD600's to assess it's capabilities but even straight out of the gate, and with my digital cable knowledge sorely challenged, it has breathed new life into my old AKG 240 Mk. II's  Instrument separation and a wide, well-presented soundstage thus far are the standout improvements. Bass is clearly improved, not a huge amount but cleaner and more natural sounding. I'm listenign to 16/44.1 bit flac's, mostly classical and light rock, with standard power mode, bit perfect. I did feel the sonic characteristics improved with the blue versus black cable, but subtle, not a cataclysmic change and possibly even placebo. Either way, I can't wait to see how the iDSD fares with the Senn's at 300 ohms. 
  
 Thanks for helping a newb.


----------



## wisnon

mudshark said:


> Thanks, ML.  Actually, it appears that ASIO is possible on OSX.  Exasound has released an ASIO driver for OSX that apparently works on Decibel and HQPlayer.
> 
> Maybe iFi can release an ASIO driver for OSX that would do the same?  That would be cool!
> 
> UPDATE: I just asked this question of iFi via my open tech support ticket.  I will report back if/when I hear anything.


 
 This driver is a DECIBEL product.


----------



## ClieOS

mlgrado said:


> Okay, just experienced something strange, and it reminded me of a previous poster saying there was an issue in getting the iDSD to run over iUSB power rather than battery.
> 
> I just experienced something similar.  Somehow my iDSD got into battery mode.  I followed proper procedure to switch it to USB bus power.  No dice.  My battery was dead, and it would not switch to USB bus power.  The solution was to physically unplug the 'wal wart' power supply from the iUSB.  This apparently reset the iUSB unit, and all is smooth sailing once again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I suspect the problem is because iUSB is purely as an clean power source and not a hub. iDSD's smart charging circuit needs to communicate with the host to know whether to switch on the USB charging or not, yet the data line is handled by the PC while the power line is handled by iUSB. So when iDSD doesn't actually get a the right response, it switches to battery mode thinking it is not getting the power needed.
  


lorywiv said:


> I've looked though this thread and still, embarrassingly, am not certain what the difference is between the supplied black B plug versus blue B plug. Both appear to charge the unit and perform well for dac from my PC. It is nearly 2 AM so pride is officially out the window and I would humbly be grateful for a concise explanation of their different uses.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The black USB cable with the right angle USB plug is for charging other USB gadget, I think. There is a USB port on the side of micro iDSD that can be used to charge other USB device when micro iDSD is turned off (essentially it is like a USB power bank). The blue cable on the other hand is intent for charging the micro iDSD itself, or used as data cable with a PC. However, there is nothing wrong if you want to mix them up.


----------



## BillsonChang007

The stock USB female type b to male type b is for portable use since it's lighter but the blue USB female type b to male type b offer better SQ and charges faster.


----------



## Mudshark

wisnon said:


> This driver is a DECIBEL product.


 
  
 According to this link, Exasound developed the ASIO driver for OSX:
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/exasound-audio-design-e22-dac


----------



## audioholik

mudshark said:


> According to this link, Exasound developed the ASIO driver for OSX:
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/exasound-audio-design-e22-dac


 
  
 HQPlayer also already supports it.


----------



## wisnon

mudshark said:


> According to this link, Exasound developed the ASIO driver for OSX:
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/exasound-audio-design-e22-dac


 
 They developed their tailored version from the Decibel raw product. I heard Decibel is trying to get others to adopt it too as a defacto Mac standard. So far, Exa and HQP have signed on....


----------



## Krutsch

wisnon said:


> They developed their tailored version from the Decibel raw product. I heard Decibel is trying to get others to adopt it too as a defacto Mac standard. So far, Exa and HQP have signed on....


 
  
 I'm sorry... why do I want ASIO drivers for my Mac?  It's been just wonderful for the PC folks, keeping up with ASIO drivers; I stopped using a PC much for this reason and all of the hassles that came with it and Windows 8.  Just sayin' that was my experience; YMMV, as usual.


----------



## LoryWiv

billsonchang007 said:


> The stock USB female type b to male type b is for portable use since it's lighter but the blue USB female type b to male type b offer better SQ and charges faster.





>





> *Thanks BillsonChang007. Beautiful rig, BTW. *


----------



## audioholik

krutsch said:


> I'm sorry... why do I want ASIO drivers for my Mac?  It's been just wonderful for the PC folks, keeping up with ASIO drivers; I stopped using a PC much for this reason and all of the hassles that came with it and Windows 8.  Just sayin' that was my experience; YMMV, as usual.


 
  
 According to the Audio Stream reviewer they sound better than Core Audio on both DSD and PCM.
  
 "I sat back and listened to a large number of DSD64 files under both ASIO and Core Audio with Decibel. The ASIO driver sounded much better than the Core Audio driver that used DoP; and not by a small amount. The DoP playback with the Core Audio driver sounded somewhat compressed with less bloom and high end air. The soundstage was far more open sounding listening with the ASIO driver. And it wasn’t just DSD that benefited from the ASIO driver playback, but also PCM files. The PCM files simply sounded better with the ASIO exaSound driver."
  
 And as an added benefit there are no pops on DSD playback when using them (as explained by iFi in one of the previous posts).


----------



## Krutsch

audioholik said:


> According to the Audio Stream reviewer they sound better than Core Audio on both DSD and PCM. And as an added benefit there are no pops on DSD playback when using them.
> 
> "I sat back and listened to a large number of DSD64 files under both ASIO and Core Audio with Decibel. The ASIO driver sounded much better than the Core Audio driver that used DoP; and not by a small amount. The DoP playback with the Core Audio driver sounded somewhat compressed with less bloom and high end air. The soundstage was far more open sounding listening with the ASIO driver. And it wasn’t just DSD that benefited from the ASIO driver playback, but also PCM files. The PCM files simply sounded better with the ASIO exaSound driver."


 
  
 Sorry... I assumed that Mac users in this category are all using playback engines like Audirvana that by-pass Core Audio and send directly to the DAC, via integer mode.


----------



## jexby

krutsch said:


> Sorry... I assumed that Mac users in this category are all using playback engines like Audirvana that by-pass Core Audio and send directly to the DAC, via integer mode.


 
  
 that's a pretty good assumption mate!
 can't live without my Audirvana+ for sure, on any of my macs....


----------



## audioholik

krutsch said:


> Sorry... I assumed that Mac users in this category are all using playback engines like Audirvana that by-pass Core Audio and send directly to the DAC, via integer mode.


 
  
 Does the integer mode solve the problem of pops when using DoP on iDSD micro DAC?


----------



## Krutsch

audioholik said:


> Does the integer mode solve the problem of pops on iDSD micro DAC?


 
  
 I don't know... I am seriously looking at getting an iDSD Micro, but don't have one now, so someone else will need to weigh in on this.
  
 On my desktop setup, I only experience any pops when starting/stopping Audirvana (i.e. when it takes over or releases the device, which in my case is the Bel Canto mLink).  Play/pause changing tracks is clean, with PCM anyway; I have no experience with DSD outside of my collection of SACD players.


----------



## pearljam50000

Does anyone own both the micro and geek out?


----------



## jexby

pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone own both the micro and geek out?


 
  
 yup.  and before you ask:
 in terms of quality of sound, soundstage, features and flexibility:
 micro iDSD wins.


----------



## wisnon

krutsch said:


> I'm sorry... why do I want ASIO drivers for my Mac?  It's been just wonderful for the PC folks, keeping up with ASIO drivers; I stopped using a PC much for this reason and all of the hassles that came with it and Windows 8.  Just sayin' that was my experience; YMMV, as usual.


 
 So you can play DSD512! At the moment the best possible with Mac is 256 with HQ Player.


----------



## audioholik

wisnon said:


> So you can play DSD512! At the moment the best possible with Mac is 256 with HQ Player.


 
 I thought that iFi Micro requires ASIO 2.2 for anything higher than 128, no?


----------



## pearljam50000

jexby said:


> yup.  and before you ask:
> in terms of quality of sound, soundstage, features and flexibility:
> micro iDSD wins.



Thanks(;


----------



## audiotweaker

Hi Heads,
  
 I too have the crackle-pop issue with my iFi Micro iDSD.  It only happens when I switch from PCM playback to DSD or when switching DSD sample rates (DSD64->DSD128 for example).  This is playing music from my Mac using PureMusic, Audirvana+, and Jriver MC 19 configured for DoP DSD playback.  This noise can be rather loud if I have the volume turned up.  The first time I experienced it with the volume turned up I feared for the safety of my speakers!
  
 I have reported this issue on the ifi-audio website.
  
 Please let me know if anyone has found a workaround for this problem on a Mac as it is quite annoying.
  
 Also, if enough of us file complaints to ifi-audio maybe they will take the problem seriously and implement a fix.
  
 thanks!


----------



## LoryWiv

Regarding the 2 supplied USB B plug cables asked about earlier in thread: iFi support indicates the black is USB 2.0, blue is usb 3.0, and they generally recommend the latter.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## wisnon

audioholik said:


> I thought that iFi Micro requires ASIO 2.2 for anything higher than 128, no?


 
 Dunno, but Miska says with ASIO, HQ Player is cleared to play up to DSD1024!!!


----------



## wisnon

audiotweaker said:


> Hi Heads,
> 
> I too have the crackle-pop issue with my iFi Micro iDSD.  It only happens when I switch from PCM playback to DSD or when switching DSD sample rates (DSD64->DSD128 for example).  This is playing music from my Mac using PureMusic, Audirvana+, and Jriver MC 19 configured for DoP DSD playback.  This noise can be rather loud if I have the volume turned up.  The first time I experienced it with the volume turned up I feared for the safety of my speakers!
> 
> ...


 
 Careful what you wish for. The "fix" may entail a dimunition of SQ.
  
 Me, I rather adhere to some Volume control discipline than be reduced to a "me too"  mediocre DSD SQ like the majority of DACs out there.


----------



## audioholik

wisnon said:


> Dunno, but Miska says with ASIO, HQ Player is cleared to play up to DSD1024!!!


 
 Ah, but that's with ASIO (which iFi already supports, albeit right now only for Windows users). Again, it looks like all the roads lead to ASIO...


----------



## audioholik

audiotweaker said:


> Hi Heads,
> 
> I too have the crackle-pop issue with my iFi Micro iDSD.  It only happens when I switch from PCM playback to DSD or when switching DSD sample rates (DSD64->DSD128 for example).  This is playing music from my Mac using PureMusic, Audirvana+, and Jriver MC 19 configured for DoP DSD playback.  This noise can be rather loud if I have the volume turned up.  The first time I experienced it with the volume turned up I feared for the safety of my speakers!
> 
> ...


 
  
 It appears that the solution has already been found (ASIO on Mac), although the companies you mentioned are yet to update their software players. Decibel and HQPlayer already did so.


----------



## wisnon

audioholik said:


> Ah, but that's with ASIO (which iFi already supports, albeit right now only for Windows users). Again, it looks like all the roads lead to ASIO...


 
 Nope, HQ Player for Mac now suuports DSD512 in ASIO. Its the iFI driver for Mac that does not allow it.
 Miska made his own Dac with the Decibel driver that plays virtually any rate.


----------



## audioholik

wisnon said:


> Nope, HQ Player for Mac now suuports DSD512 in ASIO.


 
 Again, you're talking about DSD512 *ASIO* support_,_ which further supports my point. The problem here is that iFi doesn't have an ASIO driver for Mac yet.


----------



## wisnon

audioholik said:


> Again, you're talking about DSD512 *ASIO* support_,_ which further supports my point. The problem here is that iFi doesn't have an ASIO driver for Mac yet.


 
 Yes, I think we are in agreement, actually. I think they would have to completely rewite the current driver, or develop and alternative one just for Asio/Mac.


----------



## roamling

wisnon said:


> Nope, HQ Player for Mac now suuports DSD512 in ASIO. Its the iFI driver for Mac that does not allow it.
> Miska made his own Dac with the Decibel driver that plays virtually any rate.




dsd 512 in my opinion is just a (stupid) number, no human being will ever able to hear ( feel) it, dsd 128 is all we need, even less... i rest my case.


----------



## wisnon

While i tend to agree…upsamplers swear by the higher rates and want to ability to play back at this rarified uber-frequencies.


----------



## Krutsch

roamling said:


> dsd 512 in my opinion is just a (stupid) number, no human being will ever able to hear ( feel) it, dsd 128 is all we need, even less... i rest my case.


----------



## audiotweaker

audioholik said:


> It appears that the solution has already been found (ASIO on Mac), although the companies you mentioned are yet to update their software players. Decibel and HQPlayer already did so.


 
 So you're saying I can buy HQPlayer for Mac and the problem will go away?  Do I need to buy something else as well?  The HQPlayer purchase webpage talks about needing a Signalyst Network Audio Adapter for use on a Mac but does not link to one.  Do I also need to buy something like USB Audio ASIO driver for mac?
  
 Sorry for all of thee basic questions, I'm a newb to computer audio and this is rather confusing.


----------



## Sergiusz OMD

john57 said:


> You can not use a USB3 with type B connector even with the adapters that comes with the micro. You need USB 3.0 Type A Male to Type A Female cable. Generally USB3 is designed for faster speeds and  higher current on the power lines than USB2 provided that it is used on a USB3 port. USB3 has 9 wires plus shield and USB2 has four wires.
> You could use a USB2 cable with a type B connector with the adapters that is included with the micro. The other IFI iDSD the Nano can use USB3 or USB2 with the type B connector without using adapters.





So if I will plug in an usb OTG cable to android phone and then USB 3.0 A to USB B to Micro iDSD with the included adapter then it will not work?


----------



## john57

*Answer*: Will not work since the cable will not even plug into the adapters. The adapters that came with my micro are USB2 type B.
  
 A USB3 type B connector is different from a USB2 type B connector. USB3 type B connector is not backward compatibly to a USB2 type B port. You can put a USB2 type B conector into a USB3 type B port.   USB3 type A connector is backward compatibly to a USB2 type A. There is the pictures that shows the differences. 
  
 This is a USB2 cable with a type B connector.
  

 This is a USB3 cable with a type B connector


 Noticed that the USB3 Type B connector is quite different and will not fit in a USB2 type B port. The cable included is a USB3  type A male to female.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Reg dsd64 and 128. There is a distinct improvement with dsd 128. I am not saying it's better in all music but what I have it is. I even purchased a dsd download from opus 3 dsd no 3 twice once in dsd 64 and then in 128. There is a difrence .
Al


----------



## Triodemode

When running the micro iDSD through my windows XP dual core desktop machine using Foobar2000, I do not get any popping sounds whatsoever when switching between any DSD or PCM formats.  However, running this same version of Foobar on my windows 7 i7 core laptop at work, I am hearing pops that others are experiencing.  The only difference is the Foobar ASIO proxy application version between XP and 7.
  
 Also noticed that my DPC latency is very low on my windows XP computer compared to the 7 machine while playing even DSD128 files, and am wondering if this might be a factor?
  
 Maybe bucking trends here but I absolutely enjoy using Foobar2000.
  
 Thank you iFi for engineering such a fantastic sounding and well built product.


----------



## BillsonChang007

lorywiv said:


> Thanks BillsonChang007. Beautiful rig, BTW.




No problem, and thanks! Once again, thank you to iFi for giving such precious gold to me!  

I hardly use them for portable for obvious reason thought hehe


----------



## Sergiusz OMD

john57 said:


> *Answer*: Will not work since the cable will not even plug into the adapters. The adapters that came with my micro are USB2 type B.
> 
> A USB3 type B connector is different from a USB2 type B connector. USB3 type B connector is not backward compatibly to a USB2 type B port. You can put a USB2 type B conector into a USB3 type B port.   USB3 type A connector is backward compatibly to a USB2 type A. There is the pictures that shows the differences.
> 
> ...




WoW thank you for the reply now I understand. Really appreciate that


----------



## maricius

A member in the local audio thread posted his impressions between a Chord Hugo with past 100 hours playtime and a micro iDSD with 3 hours playtime. He compared the two with an LCD-2.2, an Alpha Dog, and a modded T50RP.
  
 In summary, on the LCD-2.2 there are hardly any differences in bass and sub bass regions and for the Chord Hugo. Vocals were of a smidgeon clearer and the highs were smoother on a small margin. However, on the latter two headphones he notes "a WHOLE different from what I heard in the first setup...sub and mids areas from the micro iDSD was very flat almost non existent… very hard to feel bass presence and the body of the drums." For the mids and the highs he mentions similar differences in the first setup but to a greater and more evident degree.
  
I'm curious as to whether he'll hear any differences after or if he'll wait for the 100 hour mark.


----------



## Mudshark

For those, like me, who are experiencing the "pop" issue on DSD over DoP, I am informed that iFi is aware of the issue and is working on a new firmware version to address it.  There is, as yet, no stated timetable for this new firmware release.  Hopefully, relief is on the way soon.


----------



## audioholik

audiotweaker said:


> So you're saying I can buy HQPlayer for Mac and the problem will go away?


 
  
 Only if IFi provides the required Mac ASIO driver for it. The HQPlayer will then let you select it, and you'll be able to play DSD natively (without any DoP problems).
  
 It will also unlock higher DSD sampling rates that are currently only available for Windows users.


----------



## Krutsch

mudshark said:


> For those, like me, who are experiencing the "pop" issue on DSD over DoP, I am informed that iFi is aware of the issue and is working on a new firmware version to address it.  There is, as yet, no stated timetable for this new firmware release.  Hopefully, relief is on the way soon.


 
  
 Good to hear and hopefully the firmware update can be applied by Mac users; I was stopped from getting an iDSD Nano when I read that the F/W update required a PC to apply.


----------



## audiotweaker

This is great news.  Personally, I don't care if I have to borrow a Windoze machine to do the update but having a Mac based update solution would be even better.
  
 Thanks!


mudshark said:


> For those, like me, who are experiencing the "pop" issue on DSD over DoP, I am informed that iFi is aware of the issue and is working on a new firmware version to address it.  There is, as yet, no stated timetable for this new firmware release.  Hopefully, relief is on the way soon.


----------



## wisnon

audioholik said:


> Only if IFi provides the required Mac ASIO driver for it. The HQPlayer will then let you select it, and you'll be able to play DSD natively (without any DoP problems).
> 
> It will also unlock higher DSD sampling rates that are currently only available for Windows users.


 
 DoP is native DSD and furthermore a Dac can receive DSD in ASIO and then promptly convert to PCM and then output analog. Would you call such a Dac native DSD Playback capable?


----------



## audioholik

wisnon said:


> DoP is native DSD and furthermore a Dac can receive DSD in ASIO and then promptly convert to PCM and then output analog. Would you call such a Dac native DSD Playback capable?


 
 Strange question. If you say that a given DAC converts DSD to PCM, then by definition we can't call it native DSD.
  
 As for Core Audio DoP vs Mac ASIO DSD, here are some of the advantages of the latter (from the exaSound website):
  
 Native ASIO DSD on Mac offers many benefits for audiophile-grade music playback:

True asynchronous operation. With Core Audio the Mac is always the master, the DAC works as a slave device. With ASIO the DAC is the master. (Which makes you wonder if that was the reason why ASIO was removed from OS X 
Simple and reliable support for Integer and Exclusive Mode. ASIO always works in Exclusive Mode.
Improved performance - CPU load for native DSD is much lower compared to DoP. Older computers can play high-sampling rates DSD.
Improved reliability - DoP has to switch to PCM mode if a marker byte is lost.
Faster seamless transitions from PCM to DSD within the same playlist


----------



## semeniub

More questions. Is it better then to do this DSD to PCM conversion on a computer, where there is more computing horsepower, and send this as PCM to the DAC, rather than let the humble DAC chip do the DSD to PCM conversion?
  
 Second question. Is it better to do all the upsampling to DSD on a powerful computer, rather than do this upsampling on a humble FPGA?
  
 I may not get answers to these questions in this thread, but it's worth a try.


----------



## wisnon

audioholik said:


> Strange question. If you say that a given DAC converts DSD to PCM, then by definition we can't call it native DSD.
> 
> As for Core Audio DoP vs Mac ASIO DSD, here are some of the advantages of the latter (from the exaSound website):
> 
> ...


 
 I have a DSD-only, chipless Dac. It only does DoP. It will blow away most any other Dac in DSD and I have NEVER lost a marker AND IT CANNOT switch to PCM. What you quoted is mostly marketing fluff.
  
 Native DSD playback is the abiility tp playback DSD without conversion to any other format and without any undue extra processing, DSP or otherwise. Dop is native DSD. Asio too, but Asio is direct DSD delivery, that is it! It does not determine if the Dac is capable of native playback.
  
 Yes, I agree that Asio allows the fastest playback rates currently, but for me DSD128 is currently sufficient for native rate file playback…only a problem for extreme up sampling. The Micro can handle that for me, if I choose to upsample at nosebleed frequencies..


----------



## wisnon

semeniub said:


> More questions. Is it better then to do this DSD to PCM conversion on a computer, where there is more computing horsepower, and send this as PCM to the DAC, rather than let the humble DAC chip do the DSD to PCM conversion?
> 
> Second question. Is it better to do all the upsampling to DSD on a powerful computer, rather than do this upsampling on a humble FPGA?
> 
> I may not get answers to these questions in this thread, but it's worth a try.


 
 Here I think the upsampling algorithm may be most important, but overall I would say that with a fast computer, a top notch algorithm, advanced filter technology and clean power is the best way to go, all other things being equal. Me, I rather get the best converters I can and playback at native rate/format. Not really big on format conversion, especially decimation.
  
 FPGAs are computers on a chip and have the advantage of no background processing like in PCs, but they also dont have the unrestercted speed and space that full motherboards have. The devil is in the detail of the implementation.
  
 I would never advocate DSD to PCM conversion as that tends to sound worse than the other way.


----------



## BillsonChang007

semeniub said:


> More questions. Is it better then to do this DSD to PCM conversion on a computer, where there is more computing horsepower, and send this as PCM to the DAC, rather than let the humble DAC chip do the DSD to PCM conversion?
> 
> Second question. Is it better to do all the upsampling to DSD on a powerful computer, rather than do this upsampling on a humble FPGA?
> 
> I may not get answers to these questions in this thread, but it's worth a try.




I am not sure on where my Window PC stands in terms of specs but here's what I know;
3rd Gen i5 
4GB ram (2GB usable) 
32-bit
Window 7 Proffessional 
All-In-One PC (for the love of space) 

I am currently using FooBar2000 as my main program for music because it loads lightning fast to me. Running PCM, my PC has no problem at all even at 192/24. However, with the upsampling PCM to DSD 512, if I rapidly changing tracks, the FooBar2000 will stop responding, also, if I launch a new task, such as launching Google Chrome, my music will start repeating itself like a broken record for a few seconds. I am still waiting for my new PC's fan to come thought since for I don't know what reason, the fan happen to stop working :mad:

Hope it answers your question
Billson


----------



## semeniub

wisnon said:


> Here I think the upsampling algorithm may be most important, but overall I would say that with a fast computer, a top notch algorithm, advanced filter technology and clean power is the best way to go, all other things being equal. Me, I rather get the best converters I can and playback at native rate/format. Not really big on format conversion, especially decimation.
> 
> FPGAs are computers on a chip and have the advantage of no background processing like in PCs, but they also dont have the unrestercted speed and space that full motherboards have. The devil is in the detail of the implementation.
> 
> I would never advocate DSD to PCM conversion as that tends to sound worse than the other way.


 
 I also very much prefer the approach of having a native format DAC like the Micro iDSD, and then taking advantage of the best computing/algorithms to do any desired  upsampling. More flexibility and control for the user. Other than the Micro, what other DAC's that you know are handling things natively?
  
 Who knows, if the DSD upsampling buzz really catches on, then maybe some really serious work (i.e. not one man hardware or software shows) into the DSP algorithms and efficient computation techniques will take place to move things forward.


----------



## semeniub

billsonchang007 said:


> I am not sure on where my Window PC stands in terms of specs but here's what I know;
> 3rd Gen i5
> 4GB ram (2GB usable)
> 32-bit
> ...


 
 Your experience mirrors mine on the MAC side, in that hiccups occur when using average computing hardware to do on-the-fly upsampling. Definitely more work is needed on the software side for sure.
  
 I'm fortunate enough to have an older copy of the Korg Audiogate software, so I can upsample selected music to DSD128 in advance before sending to the DAC. Works without hiccups, but doesn't touch the sample rate capabilities of the Micro iDSD though.
  
 I have an engineering workstation with many cpu cores and GB's of ram sitting at home that could be tried, but the prospect of using that computer (and heating up the entire house) doesn't make sense at all.


----------



## Memorexx168

Hi
I haven been to a local audio store yesterday. However I couldn't get it to work with my iPhone 5s and camera connection kit. Couldn't try it  

Only hat the opportunity to try the vamp verza. Which is a little bit smaller and you can attach the phone right on to it. 
What would you suggest getting? Ifi idsd micro or the vamp verza?


----------



## wisnon

semeniub said:


> I also very much prefer the approach of having a native format DAC like the Micro iDSD, and then taking advantage of the best computing/algorithms to do any desired  upsampling. More flexibility and control for the user. Other than the Micro, what other DAC's that you know are handling things natively?
> 
> Who knows, if the DSD upsampling buzz really catches on, then maybe some really serious work (i.e. not one man hardware or software shows) into the DSP algorithms and efficient computation techniques will take place to move things forward.


 
 Never under-estimate the power of one man to change the world…indeed that is the only way it has worked in the past. LoL
  
 We are in a niche segment, so 1-man outfits often trump giant corporations at the bleeding edge. (In reality, the 1-man outfits are really small actual or virtual teams, with 1 man being the face of it).


----------



## semeniub

wisnon said:


> Never undersestimate the power of one man to change the world…indeed that is the only way it has worked in the past. LoL
> 
> We are in a niche segment, so 1-man outfits often trump giant corporations at the bleeding edge. (In reality, the 1-man outfits are really small actual or virtual teams, with 1 man being the face of it).


 
 True enough, individuals are always the ones who are pushing it. What would also help though is if the ones pushing things on the DSD software upsampling approach had access to some expert resources to help make everything mathematically and computationally efficient. Imagine the buzz if all this could be enabled to be done from a portable device like an iPhone?
  
 Streaming and upsampling on a portable device - here's to hoping for the future.


----------



## wisnon

Agreed Sem.  I think that is what is happeneing anyway. Hardware guys are not normally software experts.


----------



## semeniub

wisnon said:


> Agreed Sem.  I think that is what is happeneing anyway. Hardware guys are not normally software experts.


 
 And personal audio is not really my industry so I can't influence things as much as I would like. I await the new developments as an eager enthusiast.


----------



## maricius

iPod Video 5.5g -> iFi Audio Micro iDSD (amp section) -> Final Audio Design Heaven VI
  
 This is a setup with such an amazing synergy that one would not expect. The iDSD DAC is superior in all aspects both in technicality and musicality but in this pairing with the Heaven VI, the iPod Video just completes the perfect tonality puzzle.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Any thoughts on how the iDSD's amp section compare to Asgard 2? Worth the upgrade?


----------



## earfonia

billsonchang007 said:


> Any thoughts on how the iDSD's amp section compare to Asgard 2? Worth the upgrade?




Haven't heard Asgard 2. Having iDSD for a few days, before burn-in, I would say the DAC section is in higher level of sound quality than the amp section.

The amp section has a lot of power, dynamic and punch, which I like, but i wish the amp sound could be slightly smoother. The amp sounds slightly grainy. Detail and imaging are excellent. Bass, very good punch but bass quantity and low bass extension slightly less than compared to Fiio E12DIY with AD8599 + LME49600.

Overall, so far before burn-in, pairing Micro iDSD with Fiio E12DIY or Micro iCan improves the sound further.

Now my iDSD is burning-in. Let see if the amp section will improve after burn-in.


----------



## ClieOS

earfonia said:


> Haven't heard Asgard 2. Having iDSD for a few days, before burn-in, I would say the DAC section is in higher level of sound quality than the amp section.
> 
> The amp section has a lot of power, dynamic and punch, which I like, but i wish the amp sound could be slightly smoother. The amp sounds slightly grainy. Detail and imaging are excellent. Bass, very good punch but bass quantity and low bass extension slightly less than compared to Fiio E12DIY with AD8599 + LME49600.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed that the amp section is not as good as a well tuned E12DIY. I'll place it just under E12DIY / O2 / micro iCAN, but above nano iCAN and the amp section in micro iDAC and rivals JDS C5. Overall a very competent amp section, and I think it has excellent synergy with the DAC section too.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Exactly my thought. Pairing it with the E09K is awesome but I wanted something better +, I sold my E09K. So any thoughts on a great combo? Or maybe I get Micro iCan


----------



## maricius

clieos said:


> Agreed that the amp section is not as good as a well tuned E12DIY. I'll place it just under E12DIY / O2 / micro iCAN, but above nano iCAN and the amp section in micro iDAC and rivals JDS C5. Overall a very competent amp section, and I think it has excellent synergy with the DAC section too.




May I ask for a comparison between the micro iDSD amp and the JDSLabs C5 in terms of tonality, transparency, and soundstage? I'm looking for a slimmer amp for use with my iPod as even if love the pairing with the iDSD's amp, it's just too bulky for ultraportable use.p

Thanks in advance


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> Agreed that the amp section is not as good as a well tuned E12DIY. I'll place it just under E12DIY / O2 / micro iCAN, but above nano iCAN and the amp section in micro iDAC and rivals JDS C5. Overall a very competent amp section, and I think it has excellent synergy with the DAC section too.


 
  
 That's right! The Amp section of Micro iDSD sounds better than Nano iCAN.


----------



## gordynor

I have the iDSD Micro (Octa Adopter) and the Fostex TH600. I love the pair, but I'm wondering what effect adding the iCan Micro might be... Would you all recommend the addition? Seems like the consensus here is that the iCan Micro amp is considerably better (SQ) than the amp in the iDSD Micro.


----------



## ClieOS

maricius said:


> May I ask for a comparison between the micro iDSD amp and the JDSLabs C5 in terms of tonality, transparency, and soundstage? I'm looking for a slimmer amp for use with my iPod as even if love the pairing with the iDSD's amp, it's just too bulky for ultraportable use.p
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
  
 Soundstage is actually pretty similar between the two - neither particularly wide nor narrow. I don't consider both to be totally transparent. C5 has a slight warmness from the mid to bass with good texture, where micro iDSD's amp section draws out more micro-detail but at the same time leaner on the bass region.
  


gordynor said:


> I have the iDSD Micro (Octa Adopter) and the Fostex TH600. I love the pair, but I'm wondering what effect adding the iCan Micro might be... Would you all recommend the addition? Seems like the consensus here is that the iCan Micro amp is considerably better (SQ) than the amp in the iDSD Micro.


 
  
 For me, the micro iDSD's amp section and micro iCAN shares very similar mid to treble presentation - very clean and detail. The difference is that micro iCAN has deeper reaching bass and a far wider soundstage and image, giving it a grander, more expensive presentation and balance. The effect of XBass and 3D sound are also more noticeable on the micro iCAN. While the micro iDSD'a amp section is no slouch, the micro iCAN does bring it to an even higher level.


----------



## gordynor

clieos said:


> The difference is that micro iCAN has deeper reaching bass and a far wider soundstage and image, giving it a grander, more expensive presentation and balance. The effect of XBass and 3D sound are also more noticeable on the micro iCAN. While the micro iDSD'a amp section is no slouch, the micro iCAN does bring it to an even higher level.


 
 Thanks so much - very helpful. However, given that the Fostex are already a little bass-heavy, I wouldn't expect to use the XBass control much. So that leaves the expansive presentation and balance... Seems like it would make a good addition to the kit.
  
 Slightly off-topic, does the current model (updated since many of the original reviews) have an on/off toggle as part of the volume knob? It's pretty hard to tell if that was addressed along with the gain switches in the second rev.


----------



## MLGrado

More thoughts regarding the 'pop' issue.
  
 It is only a DoP issue; using ASIO native eliminates it.
  
 Following iFi's instructions, I only get a slight pop using DoP when switching from DSD to PCM, and vice versa.  It isn't very loud, only loud enough to be an annoyance.  
  
 But we don't like being annoyed.  I have become frustrated with many a car because of tiny rattles in the cabin.  Never mind how excellent a sports car it was, and never mind what a bargain it was relative to other competition!!
  
 Final thoughts.   The DoP pop, or insert other problems, if you like, is not necessarily an iFi issue.  It is just the evil nature of DoP being combined with a native DSD chipset with minimal DSP happening before conversion.  iFi has a webpage devoted to the 'why' of the problem, and they have spoken about it on the forum here.  
  
 I believe it 'probably' could be remedied in firmware.  But, it isn't directly a problem with iFi's hardware or software.  I would hope any 'fix' doesn't in any way compromise DSD playback quality.  
  
It wouldn't be the first time iFi 'fixed' a problem that wasn't of their own making.  We as consumers can be very, very fickle though, and sometimes problems that are not of a company's own making nevertheless need to be addressed.


----------



## ClieOS

gordynor said:


> ... Slightly off-topic, does the current model (updated since many of the original reviews) have an on/off toggle as part of the volume knob? It's pretty hard to tell if that was addressed along with the gain switches in the second rev.


 
  
 AFAIK, only gain switches were added.


----------



## Turrican2

clieos said:


> AFAIK, only gain switches were added.




Correct, only gain switches. No on/off toggle. Pity, IMHO.


----------



## g3act

Does anyone have any suggestions for a decent OTG cable for use with my Android phone.  I am about to buy a third, after the first one had a poor connection, and the second one lasted about 2 days before it fell apart.
  
 As they all seem to cost about £2-3, I'm not holding out much hope, but worth a shot
  
 Cheers


----------



## audioholik

mlgrado said:


> I believe it 'probably' could be remedied in firmware.  But, it isn't directly a problem with iFi's hardware or software.  I would hope any 'fix' doesn't in any way compromise DSD playback quality.


 
  
 If the 'fix' entails installing a new ASIO driver for Mac, then it could actually improve the quality of DSD playback.
  
 "I sat back and listened to a large number of DSD64 files under both ASIO and Core Audio with Decibel. The ASIO driver sounded much better than the Core Audio driver that used DoP; and not by a small amount. The DoP playback with the Core Audio driver sounded somewhat compressed with less bloom and high end air. The soundstage was far more open sounding listening with the ASIO driver. And it wasn’t just DSD that benefited from the ASIO driver playback, but also PCM files. The PCM files simply sounded better with the ASIO exaSound driver."
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/exasound-audio-design-e22-dac


----------



## pearljam50000

gordynor said:


> Thanks so much - very helpful. However, given that the Fostex are already a little bass-heavy, I wouldn't expect to use the XBass control much. So that leaves the expansive presentation and balance... Seems like it would make a good addition to the kit.
> 
> Slightly off-topic, does the current model (*updated since many of the original reviews*) have an on/off toggle as part of the volume knob? It's pretty hard to tell if that was addressed along with the gain switches in the second rev.



What was updated and changed?


----------



## ClieOS

pearljam50000 said:


> What was updated and changed?


 
  
 He is referring to micro iCAN and the answer has been given a few post above.


----------



## LoryWiv

Question on filtering setting options: For FLAC, either standard 16 bit 44.1 kHz "high res" what filter setting do you think produces best sound with the imico iDSD? I recognize FLAC is not true PCM for which the iFi manual recommends Bit Perfect, and my ears tell me "Minimum" setting produces a bit more musicality and just a touch of warmth while still retaining an overall neutral character on my Senn HD600 cans....just a slight bit less analytical and "sterile" than bit perfect setting. Is there any rationale for one versus the other or shall we just led our ears be our guide?
  
 Thoughts appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## john57

Let your ear decide what works for you. At least you have a choice. When I reconnected my micro iDSD directly to my LSR305 monitors without a tube amp in the middle I find that I prefer the minimum phase setting for PCM since my tube amp acts a bit like a filter of sorts.


----------



## Turrican2

g3act said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for a decent OTG cable for use with my Android phone.  I am about to buy a third, after the first one had a poor connection, and the second one lasted about 2 days before it fell apart.
> 
> As they all seem to cost about £2-3, I'm not holding out much hope, but worth a shot
> 
> Cheers


 

 I use this one from Forza audioworks, awesome cable.  Bit more than 2 or 3 quid though but well worth the money imo..  Contaact Matthew using his online form, he's very responsive and flexible, just tell him what you need.


----------



## WriterHead

I am using LCD2 with iDSD micro. Have you found any sound differences (dynamic range, soundstage...) between turbo and normal modes apart from more volume?
 Lately I have been using normal mode with the volume pot between 12 and 2.


----------



## BillsonChang007

It is actually best to keep the volume between 9 and 12 o'clock.

IMO, for a lot of my musics, I prefer the filters at minimum phase.


----------



## john57

writerhead said:


> I am using LCD2 with iDSD micro. Have you found any sound differences (dynamic range, soundstage...) between turbo and normal modes apart from more volume?
> Lately I have been using normal mode with the volume pot between 12 and 2.


 
 Actually I like the 12 to 2 clock range and the volume pot is more linear and even between channels at that position.


----------



## Wfojas

On the issue of what sounded better, the Geek Out or the iDSD, I'm not exactly sure if the iDSD wins all the time. I think it depends on the type of Geek Out you have, as this  has match your phones too. I do know the GeekOut 720 sounds better with the LCD-X, and the Sennheiser HD-800 is wonderful with the iDSD. I'll get back to you when they all burn in and settle down. As it is, the only thing burned in is the Senns, at this point. 
  
 Detail is amazing with the Geek Out 720, but, depending on material and headphone can get fatiguing, pretty quickly. And the iDSD is so ear friendly, but.....
  


pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone own both the micro and geek out?


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks (;


----------



## g3act

turrican2 said:


> I use this one from Forza audioworks, awesome cable.  Bit more than 2 or 3 quid though but well worth the money imo..  Contaact Matthew using his online form, he's very responsive and flexible, just tell him what you need.


 
 That's brilliant. Just what I was after. I'll send him an email and hopefully he can put a female A end on it. 
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## OD-Fi

EISA award = 3.5mm ribbon cable giveway at National Audio Show We have hardly had the chance to draw breath after returning from the EISA awards ceremony (even the airport security staff at Tegel Airport congratulated us!)
 
Nevertheless, we shall be at the Headzones exhibition at the National Audio Show on 20-21 September at Whittlebury Hall. We are still on cloud nine following the EISA ward  - so visitors to the iFi booth in Headzones will each receive a free 3.5mm>3.5mm ribbon cable  in a soft velvet iFi pouch (while stocks last).

At the NAS, Chris Martens from HiFi+ will be demonstrating headphone setups with the “white hot” micro iDSD. There are also 5 iFi iDSD machines up for grabs for HiFI+ subscribers.
 
We look forward to seeing you there as we can hardly contain our excitement!


----------



## audiotweaker

mlgrado said:


> More thoughts regarding the 'pop' issue.
> 
> It is only a DoP issue; using ASIO native eliminates it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It doesn't matter the root cause of the problem, if iFi wants to sell the Micro to people to put into their expensive stereo systems then they need to address the DoP pop problem.  I cannot recommend this product to my friends without mentioning this issue.  The first time I experienced the pop I was listening to classical music with huge dynamic range.  I had the volume turned up because the last third of the song was rather quiet.  When the song ended the crackle-pop sound that I heard was so loud I feared for the safety of my speakers!
  
 Yes, if you're sitting right next to the Micro and you are diligent you can turn down the volume every time there is a DSD sample rate change but who really wants to have to do that?
  
 If iFi could simply mute the outputs during the sample rate change all would be well.   There would be no ill effect to DSD playback.   I hope iFi can find a way to do this and implement it in a firmware update.  Then iFi would have a near perfect product.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

As I would not use my ifi in any of my speaker systems I can understand the points being made here. I a hopefully that ifi is going to fix it and soon. But I honestly do here anything but a tiny pop when turning it on. But I would tell anyone about the pop as you are saying


----------



## Mudshark

audiotweaker said:


> It doesn't matter the root cause of the problem, if iFi wants to sell the Micro to people to put into their expensive stereo systems then they need to address the DoP pop problem.  I cannot recommend this product to my friends without mentioning this issue.  The first time I experienced the pop I was listening to classical music with huge dynamic range.  I had the volume turned up because the last third of the song was rather quiet.  When the song ended the crackle-pop sound that I heard was so loud I feared for the safety of my speakers!
> 
> Yes, if you're sitting right next to the Micro and you are diligent you can turn down the volume every time there is a DSD sample rate change but who really wants to have to do that?
> 
> If iFi could simply mute the outputs during the sample rate change all would be well.   There would be no ill effect to DSD playback.   I hope iFi can find a way to do this and implement it in a firmware update.  Then iFi would have a near perfect product.


 
  
 +1
  
 My Micro iDSD works great with ASIO in JRMC 20 for Windows but, with DoP in Audirvana+ on my MBP, the "pop" when a DSD file set finishes playing is _crazy _loud.  Hoping for a fix soon ...


----------



## audiotweaker

mudshark said:


> +1
> 
> My Micro iDSD works great with ASIO in JRMC 20 for Windows but, with DoP in Audirvana+ on my MBP, the "pop" when a DSD file set finishes playing is _crazy _loud.  Hoping for a fix soon ...


 
 Yes, unfortunately I don't have a Windows machine.  I'm hoping Apple will upgrade their USB software to eliminate the need for DoP on Macs and iDevices.  Anything that will get rid of this problem is welcome!


----------



## Mudshark

audiotweaker said:


> Yes, unfortunately I don't have a Windows machine.  I'm hoping Apple will upgrade their USB software to eliminate the need for DoP on Macs and iDevices.  Anything that will get rid of this problem is welcome!


 
  
 Maybe iFi will come out with an ASIO driver for OSX, just as exaSound did recently, and then we can bypass DoP on our Apple machines (AFAIK, the exaSound ASIO driver for OSX works on Decibel and HQPlayer currently, but not on Audirvana+).


----------



## Triodemode

Am I correct in reading that at this time, only windows users can play DSD natively with nano and micro iDSD due to the lack of an ASIO driver?


----------



## john57

triodemode said:


> Am I correct in reading that at this time, only windows users can play DSD natively with nano and micro iDSD due to the lack of an ASIO driver?


 
 No, You can play native DSD files with DoP encapsulation or without. Not all DSD DAC's can play DSD files natively without going to a PCM stage.


----------



## Dixter

Just in case Ifi folks are still with us here....  If I may...I'd like to suggest a potential opportunity for you...   if you might consider creating a cradle for your amps....   its hard to mount anything on the amps due to the shape....   we need a cradle that will form fit your amp dimensions and offer a flat surface so we can mount our phones/Daps with bands when we want to use the amps as portable units....   just a thought...and you could make some extra bucks...    
  
 Thanks
 db


----------



## bapspidoff

billsonchang007 said:


> Any thoughts on how the iDSD's amp section compare to Asgard 2? Worth the upgrade?




FWIW, I actually prefer the micro iDSD amp to the Asgard 2. I really enjoy the 3D and xbass effects on my HE500s and I've actually found several schiit products, the Asgard 2 included, to be slightly grainy/dry. I love the ifi products for their smooth detailed sound and in this case I prefer their mobile amp to schiits class A desktop amp... Go figure. Don't get me wrong, Schiit makes some great gear, and the Asgard 2 is a very good amp, but I'm on the micro iDSD train for the time being.


----------



## jexby

+1.
  
 while the iFi micro iDSD amp doesn't present the widest soundstage amongst SS amps I'd bet, the musicality, natural/realistic detail and presentation are just amazing.
 regardless of the form factor, this is one SS amp that will keep me satisfied for sure.  even with IEMs and NAD HP50.
  
 Lyr 2 with HE-560 and Vali keep my tube-sounding appetite fed.
 variety is the spice of sound.


----------



## Triodemode

john57 said:


> No, You can play native DSD files with DoP encapsulation or without. Not all DSD DAC's can play DSD files natively without going to a PCM stage.


 
  
 So as I understand it, the only way DSD data can be transferred and used by the iDSD natively via USB, is for PCM frames being added to the stream (is this what the DoP acronym means)?  From the informative article below it appears as though Apple has the main issue because it's audio architecture was designed specifically for PCM.
  
 I have a lot to learn coming from the analogue world of vinyl.  Thanks for your help John.
  
 http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard


----------



## Triodemode

john57 said:


> No, You can play native DSD files with DoP encapsulation or without. Not all DSD DAC's can play DSD files natively without going to a PCM stage.


 

 So, DSD data must be carried inside a PCM frame using an ASIO driver when transferring via USB, and this is where the acronym DoP comes from?
  
 I have a bit to learn coming from the analog world of vinyl.  Thanks for the assistance john57.


----------



## BillsonChang007

bapspidoff said:


> FWIW, I actually prefer the micro iDSD amp to the Asgard 2. I really enjoy the 3D and xbass effects on my HE500s and I've actually found several schiit products, the Asgard 2 included, to be slightly grainy/dry. I love the ifi products for their smooth detailed sound and in this case I prefer their mobile amp to schiits class A desktop amp... Go figure. Don't get me wrong, Schiit makes some great gear, and the Asgard 2 is a very good amp, but I'm on the micro iDSD train for the time being.


 
  
  


jexby said:


> +1.
> 
> while the iFi micro iDSD amp doesn't present the widest soundstage amongst SS amps I'd bet, the musicality, natural/realistic detail and presentation are just amazing.
> regardless of the form factor, this is one SS amp that will keep me satisfied for sure.  even with IEMs and NAD HP50.
> ...


 
 Thanks guys! What would be a perfect upgrade from the Micro iDSD's amp section then? Now I am looking at Micro iCan haha


----------



## audioholik

triodemode said:


> So, DSD data must be carried inside a PCM frame using an ASIO driver when transferring via USB, and this is where the acronym DoP comes from?


 
  
 No, that's why there's no pop during DSD playback via ASIO (ASIO_ has _native DSD support, no DoP required)... as an added benefit ASIO also bypasses Mac's inferior Core Audio infrastructure.
  
 BTW, on its website, iFi Audio recommends using ASIO for "the best sound."


----------



## iFi audio

*DSD DoP compared to ASIO native*

  
 There is a lot of mis-information tripping readers up - causing all sorts of odd interpretations and a little obfuscation!

  
 Here is our explanation.

- ASIO native and DoP are two different ways to send DSD data through the USB Audio Subsystem.

  
- Both require Hardware support (in the DAC) and Software support (in the Playback software).

The key difference is that ASIO has its own distinct protocol that packs 32Bit worth of DSD data into a PCM sample but support even on Windows is very limited and does mostly not exist on Apple & Linux.

Contrastingly, DoP is totally platform/device/driver agnostic but can only transmit 16 Bit worth of DSD data per 32 Bit PCM sample (the rest is used up by the protocol marker and other overheads). 

So ASIO 88.2KHz native can transmit DSD64 while on DoP it needs 176.4KHz to transmit DSD data. Other than that fundamentally the two systems are very similar. Neither transcodes DSD into anything else, both use PCM Packets as "transport" and both re-assemble the original DSD datastream completely transparent and Bit-Perfect before it is sent to the DAC.


*DoP "PoP" and how JRMC gets around this*

 The problem is that when DoP stops there is no defined "level". After DSD playback via DSD finishes, the DAC output may be at any given of 64 Levels and as no more data is send it will stay there.

  
 There is a 1 in 2 chance that the level the DSD DAC outputs is either more negative or more positive than nominal "maximum music level". There is a 3 in 4 chance that the level that remains at the output of the DAC is greater than half the peak level of the Music.

 When then PCM Playback starts it starts with silence (empty samples as no data is yet sent).

 This empty sample forces the DAC to output 0V. This happens so fast, there is no way to mute this. The DoP Playback has already stopped and PCM is being send while we are still trying to get the mute on.

  
 This is the "big pop", it is simply an instant return from X (where X will have a very high chance of being at a very high level respective to the music, positive or negative) to zero.

 The way to avoid (or at least substantially reduce) this is click is to play some extra DOP Samples (we are unable to determine exactly how many J-River actually adds as they are able to virtually eliminate this issue) representing silence after the nominal playback is finished. By playing silence the DAC output will return to Zero, so when PCM kicks in it will be at zero or very close, so we get no or a very small click.

 The ASIO implementation of DSD incidentally takes care of that and hence has no click. In the case of other DAC Chips that convert DSD internally to PCM before filtering and playback this whole issue obviously does not happen!

  
 As so far they represent 95% or more of all DSD DAC's out there, this problem is hence quite rare.

We hope this sheds more light on this matter.


----------



## iFi audio

Also, any iCLUB members who are planning to attend the National Audio Show at Whittlebury Hall, please contact your concierge so that we can meet you at the show in the Headzones area!

  
 Date: 20-21 September
 Location: Whittlebury Hall (near Silverstone). UK.

  
 More information here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/eisa-award-3-5mm-ribbon-cable-giveway-at-national-audio-show/


----------



## bms44974

@*Triodemode: *The acronym DoP stands for "DSD Audio over PCM Frames". A description of the packaging details can be found here: http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard.
  
 The DoP standard (2012 v1.1) recognizes that, because the first 8 bits of each packet are used to identify the packet as DSD, there can be a pop when the packet is incorrectly interpreted as a PCM packet. When implemented according to the standard, an incorrectly identified PCM packet containing DSD data should result in "a tone around 88kHz and roughly -34db, nothing harmful and something that most D/A converters would suppress to some degree before it even reaches the loudspeaker." 
  
 Disclaimer: your results may vary


----------



## Triodemode

Thank you for the excellent schooling by the gurus at iFi regarding the whole DoP and ASIO with DSD...   Just to confirm, ASIO and DoP both require PCM as a transport mechanism for DSD over USB correct? 
  
 So when my Foobar2000 is setup using the 'foo_dsd_asio' driver with DSD selected as ASIO driver mode in the SACD plugin, is this why I am not hearing any pops when starting and stopping DSD tracks or switching between DSD and PCM tracks?   Is DoP used by Apple due to the lack of an ASIO driver for any of their players?   Does J-river also use DoP due to the lack of an ASIO driver like the one written with Foobar?
  
 I apologize for being a little anal retentive here,  just want to make sure I am getting things clear and appreciate everyones patience.


----------



## technobear

triodemode said:


> Thank you for the excellent schooling by the gurus at iFi regarding the whole DoP and ASIO with DSD...   Just to confirm, ASIO and DoP both require *PCM as a transport mechanism *for DSD over USB correct?




No. Not PCM. Just PCM-style packets and protocol. There is no conversion to PCM. The PCM-style packets contain DSD data.


----------



## audiotweaker

ifi audio said:


> *DoP "PoP" and how JRMC gets around this*
> 
> The problem is that when DoP stops there is no defined "level". After DSD playback via DSD finishes, the DAC output may be at any given of 64 Levels and as no more data is send it will stay there.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The rather loud pop I am hearing (and complaining about) is when the iFI Micro iDSD switches from PCM to DSD modes or changes DSD sample rates (ie. DSD64 to DSD128).  This is with three music player apps on the Mac, PureMusic, Audirvana+, and JMRC.  I just downloaded and installed JMRC 20 (latest version) for the Mac this morning and still get this rather loud pop.  It is not reduced in any way, it is still loud if you have the volume turned up!  I have tried every configuration option in JRMC to quiet or reduce it, nothing helps.
  
 If there is some obscure JMRC configuration that will 'substantially reduce' this annoying crackle-pop sound please let me know!
  
 Alternatively, if there is a way to play native DSD music on a Mac and/or iOS device without using DoP I would love to hear about it.


----------



## audioholik

ifi audio said:


> The key difference is that ASIO has its own distinct protocol that packs 32Bit worth of DSD data into a PCM sample but support even on Windows is very limited and does mostly not exist on Apple & Linux.


 
  
 exaSound, Signalyst/HQPlayer, and Decibel already provide ASIO support on Mac.
  
 There's no pop when using ASIO, because the protocol was actually developed with native DSD support. And that's why you don't have the bizarre 30-50% overheads (and pops) when transmitting DSD via ASIO.
  
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> In the case of other DAC Chips that convert DSD internally to PCM before filtering and playback this whole issue obviously does not happen!
> 
> As so far they represent 95% or more of all DSD DAC's out there, this problem is hence quite rare.


 
  
 That's quite a statement to make, but I don't think it reflects reality. Most DSD DACs I know of (be it 1bit or 5bit) play back DSD without conversion to PCM.
  
 That's not to say there aren't DSD DACs that do indeed use PCM decimation filters and down-sample DSD to lowly PCM sampling rates.


----------



## Triodemode

technobear said:


> No. Not PCM. Just PCM-style packets and protocol. There is no conversion to PCM. The PCM-style packets contain DSD data.


 

 Thanks...  I understand that there is no conversion.  I guess my use of the word 'transport' regarding how DSD data passes via USB might have implied some conversion to PCM was taking place.


----------



## audiotweaker

triodemode said:


> Is DoP used by Apple due to the lack of an ASIO driver for any of their players?   Does J-river also use DoP due to the lack of an ASIO driver like the one written with Foobar?
> 
> I apologize for being a little anal retentive here,  just want to make sure I am getting things clear and appreciate everyones patience.


 
  
 Music player apps for the Mac are forced to use DoP because Apple Core Audio and USB driver only supports PCM.  If Apple updates Core Audio and USB Driver to eliminate the need for DoP (hope, hope) we would not have this issue.  Further, if there was a way to bypass Core Audio and built-in USB driver the problem could be eliminated.
  
 This is all explained in detail in the DoP Open Standard document.


----------



## audioholik

Quote:



audiotweaker said:


> Music player apps for the Mac are forced to use DoP because Apple Core Audio and USB driver only supports PCM.


 
  
 Decibel and HQPlayer are both apps for the Mac and they aren't forced to use DoP. They support both DoP and ASIO.
  
   
 Quote:


audiotweaker said:


> Further, if there was a way to bypass Core Audio and built-in USB driver the problem could be eliminated.


 
  
 There is a way to bypass Core Audio; exaSound, Decibel and HQPlayer already did this.


----------



## Triodemode

So if what iFi indicates is correct that using ASIO drivers written for DSD remove the pops by ensuring that a 0 level is maintained between tracks, why then are folks here still using DoP with their music players?  I am reading some mention that ASIO drivers are available on players for Windows and Apple computers. 
  
 As stated earlier, I am not experiencing any pops with the micro using Foobar2000 and it's ASIO driver for DSD on an old windows XP machine.


----------



## audiotweaker

audioholik said:


> Decibel and HQPlayer are both apps for the Mac and they aren't forced to use DoP. They support both DoP and ASIO.
> 
> 
> There is a way to bypass Core Audio; exaSound, Decibel and HQPlayer already did this.


 
  
 Where did you find ASIO for Mac that works with these players?  At this point, I'm ready to try anything.  Do you have links?
  
 Also, is there a solution for iOS devices?


----------



## audioholik

audiotweaker said:


> Where did you find ASIO for Mac that works with these players?  At this point, I'm ready to try anything.  Do you have links?


 
  
 From what I know, the exaSound e22 is the first USB DAC that works with the two above Mac music apps. A large portion of this review deals with the benefits of these new ASIO drivers for OSX: http://www.audiostream.com/content/exasound-audio-design-e22-dac
  
 My understanding is that iFi would have to come up with its own driver to make use of these Mac apps in ASIO mode.


----------



## BillsonChang007

triodemode said:


> So if what iFi indicates is correct that using ASIO drivers written for DSD remove the pops by ensuring that a 0 level is maintained between tracks, why then are folks here still using DoP with their music players?  I am reading some mention that ASIO drivers are available on players for Windows and Apple computers.
> 
> As stated earlier, I am not experiencing any pops with the micro using Foobar2000 and it's ASIO driver for DSD on an old windows XP machine.




Same here. No pops running Asio DSD on FB2k on Window 7 machines.


----------



## audiotweaker

audioholik said:


> From what I know, the exaSound e22 is the first USB DAC that works with the two above Mac music apps. A large portion of this review deals with the benefits of these new ASIO drivers for OSX: http://www.audiostream.com/content/exasound-audio-design-e22-dac
> 
> My understanding is that iFi would have to come up with its own driver to make use of these Mac apps in ASIO mode.


 
  
 OK, so this indicates that it is possible to bypass Core Audio and thus DoP, but this is not a current solution for the iFi Micro iDSD.  Not without more software work from them.
  
 Also, I feel there is a bit of marketing drivel in the article.  Case in point, "One of my designer friends feels that DoP sucks the life out of the music."  Yes DoP requires more processing power and wastes USB bandwidth but if done correctly the exact same DSD data stream should reach the DSD DAC.  If this is not the case DoP processing is not being done correctly.  Even contributor iFi Audio agrees in his recent post, "both re-assemble the original DSD data stream completely transparent and Bit-Perfect before it is sent to the DAC."
  
 And to be clear, I have no issue with the audio that I am hearing from my Micro iDSD.  I think it sounds fabulous, especially at this price point.  Bravo iFi Audio.  I'm just looking for a workaround/fix for the pop during DSD sample rate changes.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What causes the pops for you. Using j river it's silent for me weather PCM or dsd. Just curious ?


----------



## audiotweaker

alrainbow said:


> What causes the pops for you. Using j river it's silent for me weather PCM or dsd. Just curious ?


 
 See post #864 of this thread.


----------



## TontonJoK

I'd like to use the dac section only to replace the built in dac of my tube amp

I see idsd nano, micro idac and idsd micro

I listen mostly hd videos on you tube with my lcd 2, dsd files are hard to find especially for the music I listen to

I won't be using the built in amp and was wondering witch one to choose
Some help would be welcomed (sorry if asked already)


----------



## TontonJoK

500 $ is a little too much and hesitate between idsd nano and micro idac (for the moment )


----------



## audioholik

audiotweaker said:


> OK, so this indicates that it is possible to bypass Core Audio and thus DoP, but this is not a current solution for the iFi Micro iDSD.  Not without more software work from them.


 
 Well, the pops won't go away without more software work anyway. It's only a matter of whether iFi chooses to work on a workaround (that removes the pops) to a workaround (DoP) that is running on the inferior Core Audio architecture, or to develop a new ASIO driver that can work with the Mac music players (HQPlayer, Decibel, ...) that bypass Core Audio and use native DSD ASIO mode. The third option is to not choose between these two options, and actually doing both.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wow the pop is loud with me too , but as I use a PC it's only if forget and leave the dop box checked in j river . If unchecked it's silent . I am sorry to hear that but it's only with Mac then ? Is this the correct understanding ?
Al


----------



## roamling

i made my choice, the 10 DSD album i have will be pretty much it. SACD was the better delivery format but never got a good start. Playback of digital download DSD is just to buggy. PCM works fine for me. I think DXD files like from many 2L releases might be the way forward


----------



## Triodemode

roamling said:


> i made my choice, the 10 DSD album i have will be pretty much it. SACD was the better delivery format but never got a good start. Playback of digital download DSD is just to buggy. PCM works fine for me. I think DXD files like from many 2L releases might be the way forward


 

 The vast majority of recordings today are made using pro tools or other software at PCM 24/96 or 192khz, so converting these titles to DSD makes no sense.  DSD does however sound better than PCM with music that was recorded using analog tape (which is all music recorded in the early 80’s and before).  There is also a growing catalog if independent labels who record directly to DSD.
  
 Many so called ‘high resolution’ titles being offered on-line (and even some SACD titles) are just up sampled from the red book 16/44.1khz CD.  I do spectral analysis in an attempt to weed out these counterfeit offerings by looking for the telltale 20khz brick wall, as well as performing dynamic range measurements looking for the least compressed versions.  There is a great database of music you can use for reference to determine if your source is unadulterated. 
  
http://dr.loudness-war.info/
  
 IMO portable music reproduction has now reached a point where fidelity can rival one’s home systems.  There is a huge library of SACD titles available, so converting these discs to an ISO and storing it on mobile devices is a great way to enjoy DSD sound quality on the go.  The bugs will get worked out as this technology matures.  I think iFi has produced an exceptional ground breaking product in the Nano and Micro iDSD.


----------



## earfonia

This morning, fully charged after whole night charging, my Micro iDSD is not working anymore  I tried to listen some music using DAP connected to SPDIF input, no sound at all. LED is blinking green.

According to the battery manual, the battery seems to be faulty  

It was still working fine last night. And I always use the same charger, that is still working fine to charge my phone.

I bought it 1 Sept, and battery gets faulty within 2 weeks?

Ifi, please advise.
Could you help me to activate the battery?


----------



## BillsonChang007

Have you tried running via USB power and then switching back to battery? 

I have no such problem on mine ATM thought I suggest you to open a ticket for it


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> This morning, fully charged after whole night charging, my Micro iDSD is not working anymore  I tried to listen some music using DAP connected to SPDIF input, no sound at all. LED is blinking green.
> 
> According to the battery manual, the battery seems to be faulty
> 
> ...


 

 According to what I read, flashing green means the device is waiting on a USB input signal.  Red is battery low and no light means battery is empty.  Your battery should be fine.  Check your USB connection or try a different source.


----------



## cvision123

It was unfortunate for me that my micro had issue with the PCB which makes the volume become quiet in comparison to the initial state. I contacted iFi and quickly got the replies. I sent the micro back to iFi to have the PCB replaced. Hopefully I will have it back next week.

I would vote an 4.9/5.0 for their customer service (-0.1 is for the unfortunate issue ). Over the years, the service is among the top services that I have experienced.


----------



## earfonia

​Yesterday I did use the Micro iDSD till the battery flat, and then I connected it to charger immediately. It was charging normally by the indication of constant blue LED. And this morning the blue LED was off, I thought it has been charged to full (after about 10 hours charging). But when I turned it on, the LED blinking in green.
  
 ​I tried to charge it again, when connecting to my USB charger, the 2A output of Antec Quad Port USB Charging Station (UA4-25), that I've been using to charge my Micro iDSD for about 2 weeks, the LED lighted up in blue for a few seconds, and then turned off. So I wasn't be able to charge it. I also tried to charge it using my PC USB port, same behavior, LED lighted up in blue for a longer period, maybe about 30-40 seconds, and then the LED turned off.
  
 When using USB power, connect it to USB port while in OFF state, and then turn it ON, it works normally as USB DAC.
 But as stand alone DAC using SPDIF, it doesn't work.
  
 ​
  


billsonchang007 said:


> Have you tried running via USB power and then switching back to battery?
> 
> I have no such problem on mine ATM thought I suggest you to open a ticket for it


 
  
 Yes. Tried many times. Doesn't work.
  
  


triodemode said:


> According to what I read, flashing green means the device is waiting on a USB input signal.  Red is battery low and no light means battery is empty.  Your battery should be fine.  Check your USB connection or try a different source.


 
  
 Hopefully my battery is still fine, just wrongly entered into shutdown mode according to this info on ifi:
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/
  
 So far the battery cannot be activated, and keep in shutdown mode.
  
  


cvision123 said:


> It was unfortunate for me that my micro had issue with the PCB which makes the volume become quiet in comparison to the initial state. I contacted iFi and quickly got the replies. I sent the micro back to iFi to have the PCB replaced. Hopefully I will have it back next week.
> 
> I would vote an 4.9/5.0 for their customer service (-0.1 is for the unfortunate issue ). Over the years, the service is among the top services that I have experienced.


 
  
 Right! I agree, ifi support I would rate 5/5. Mike from ifi has sent me pm, and will help me to solve my problem.
 Well, let's see. I will update here later.


----------



## Mudshark

audiotweaker said:


> The rather loud pop I am hearing (and complaining about) is when the iFI Micro iDSD switches from PCM to DSD modes or changes DSD sample rates (ie. DSD64 to DSD128).  This is with three music player apps on the Mac, PureMusic, Audirvana+, and JMRC.  I just downloaded and installed JMRC 20 (latest version) for the Mac this morning and still get this rather loud pop.  It is not reduced in any way, it is still loud if you have the volume turned up!  I have tried every configuration option in JRMC to quiet or reduce it, nothing helps.
> 
> If there is some obscure JMRC configuration that will 'substantially reduce' this annoying crackle-pop sound please let me know!
> 
> Alternatively, if there is a way to play native DSD music on a Mac and/or iOS device without using DoP I would love to hear about it.




Same loud DSD-related "pop" problem here on DoP with OSX Mavericks (v10.9.4) and Audirvana Plus (v1.5.12). I reported the problem to iFi via a support ticket and was informed that a firmware fix is in the works (albeit with no timetable for release).

The DoP pop is so loud on my Micro that I fear it could damage my headphones or loudspeakers. Hence, for the time being, I will only play PCM files (or DSD converted to PCM) when I use the Micro with my OSX MBP. 

Luckily, I also have a Windows 7 laptop with JRiver v20, and the Micro works fine playing DSD with iFi's Windows-only ASIO driver. (As an experiment, I tried DoP with JRiver for Windows and got the same loud pop as I did on OSX with A+. No settings within JRiver did anything to eliminate or reduce the pop.)


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> ​Yesterday I did use the Micro iDSD till the battery flat, and then I connected it to charger immediately. It was charging normally by the indication of constant blue LED. And this morning the blue LED was off, I thought it has been charged to full (after about 10 hours charging). But when I turned it on, the LED blinking in green.
> 
> ​I tried to charge it again, when connecting to my USB charger, the 2A output of Antec Quad Port USB Charging Station (UA4-25), that I've been using to charge my Micro iDSD for about 2 weeks, the LED lighted up in blue for a few seconds, and then turned off. So I wasn't be able to charge it. I also tried to charge it using my PC USB port, same behavior, LED lighted up in blue for a longer period, maybe about 30-40 seconds, and then the LED turned off.
> 
> ...


 

 The speed at which the green light flashes determines whether it is a battery issue or just waiting for a signal.  Try this, unplug every thing from the USB input and turn the unit off.  Then turn it back on and insert a 3.5mm cable into the front input jack.  If the light turns solid green your battery is fine, if it continues to blink fast then you are correct that the battery has a problem.


----------



## earfonia

triodemode said:


> The speed at which the green light flashes determines whether it is a battery issue or just waiting for a USB signal.  Try this, unplug every thing from the USB input and turn the unit off.  Then turn it back on and insert a 3.5mm cable into the front input jack.  If the light turns solid green your battery is fine, if it continues to blink fast then you are correct that the battery has a problem.


 
  
 I've been using Micro iDSD as stand alone DAC without USB connection, only SPDIF input from my DAP, and I always get solid green LED. Not this time, LED is blinking green, no sound when connected to SPDIF.
 Now using it as USB DAC with USB power, and it works fine driving my Hifiman HE5-LE. So at this state, it doesn't work without USB power.
  
 Tonight I will try to connect it to charger again and leave it for the whole night. I hope I will get the steady blue LED after sometime.


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> I've been using Micro iDSD as stand alone DAC without USB connection, only SPDIF input from my DAP, and I always get solid green LED. Not this time, LED is blinking green, no sound when connected to SPDIF.
> Now using it as USB DAC with USB power, and it works fine driving my Hifiman HE5-LE. So at this state, it doesn't work without USB power.
> 
> Tonight I will try to connect it to charger again and leave it for the whole night. I hope I will get the steady blue LED after sometime.


 

 Just asking for this quick definitive test, as it is possible from your statement that the unit may not getting a signal on it's SPDIF input.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Not sure what the question is. Mine works on all inputs and the led does change color. But some daps do odd things as a transport. Mu hibino needs to be set to native not selecting and PCM resolutions when selecting dsd for play back . If I do select any I get no sound and it blinks. But the output is not dsd it's PCM so this makes no sense but it is this way. Now if I select PCM and a resoloituon it's fine and it plays as shown. Hope this helps .
Al


----------



## audioholik

roamling said:


> i made my choice, the 10 DSD album i have will be pretty much it. SACD was the better delivery format but never got a good start. Playback of digital download DSD is just to buggy. PCM works fine for me. I think DXD files like from many 2L releases might be the way forward


 
 If you say so...
  
 Btw, is 2L still the only label in the entire world that releases DXD stuff?
  
 Personally, I couldn't care less about DXD, the files are huge, and not even PCM, when you consider the fact they are all recorded with Delta Sigma converters.


----------



## TontonJoK

Is the xbass and 3D working if used as a dac to feed an other amp ?


----------



## technobear

tontonjok said:


> Is the xbass and 3D working if used as a dac to feed an other amp ?




They are active in 'preamp' mode.

They are not active in 'direct' mode.


----------



## TontonJoK

In preamp mode can I use my headphones plugged in my tube amp using the idsd micro as a dac and use those 2 functions anyway ??


----------



## TontonJoK

3d + xbass


----------



## roamling

audioholik said:


> If you say so...
> 
> Btw, is 2L still the only label in the entire world that releases DXD stuff?
> 
> Personally, I couldn't care less about DXD, the files are huge, and not even PCM, when you consider the fact they are all recorded with Delta Sigma converters.




well right now i have the setting switched on my Vortexbox to convert DSD to PCM because of the loud pop. Whats the point of that? I could have purchased a PCM file in the first place. If DSD only works in certain setups like JRiver than its not working for me with my current setup. DXD is a PCM like signal.

for me practicality is key, I want to play my music without any interferences and without recabling my system to a different source if i want to play certain files. at this high quality level of resolution i don't expect pops or noises. We will see what the future brings.. 

PS: at least the micro iDSD does PCM, DSD and DXD, so the user can choose the best format for each individual setup


----------



## technobear

tontonjok said:


> In preamp mode can I use my headphones plugged in my tube amp using the idsd micro as a dac and use those 2 functions anyway ??




I already answered you question. What do you not understand?

As I said already, 3D and XBASS are active in pre-amp mode through the RCA outputs.


----------



## technobear

tontonjok said:


> 3d + xbass




There is one more thing to say here.

The 3D through the RCA outputs (in pre-amp mode) is "3D for Speakers", *not *"3D for Headphones".

There is no way to get "3D for Headphones" from the RCA outputs.

So if you use an external amp, even a tube amp, the 3D will sound wrong on headphones as it is designed for speakers.


Edit: I could go on to say that anyone wanting 3D and also wanting to use an external headphone amp should buy a micro iCAN. My experience so far is that the micro iCAN does sound better than the micro iDSD alone, particularly in the bass. The XBASS and 3D on the micro iCAN are also less subtle and more effective than those on the micro iDSD.

Edit 2: for users of the beyerdynamic T1, the micro iCAN is a perfect match (I was going to say 'match made in Heaven' but I don't want to offend people who might be upset by the concept of Heaven :rolleyes


----------



## Mashi-Maro

Hi everyone
First time poster from new member from Australia. 

I am proud owner of idsd micro. Just a few issues I want to clarify. 

1. I am getting channel imbalance at low volume. I understand the volume pot is analog but is it connected to digital step attenuator? Then it shouldn't have this problem. 

May I ask how many owners have the low volume channel imbalance problem?

2. This brings me to another issue of using it in preamp mode to control my power amp. Is there a way to adjust gain so I can use higher volume position so I can have balanced channel when listening at low volumes at night through my speakers. 

My volume pot doesn't become balanced until 10 o'clock position. 

Thanks in advanced. 

Toan.


----------



## roamling

just noticed something strange, i recently bought a pair of ELAC BS 312 speakers and they are very resolving... so was just browsing for music in my folders, nothing playing but I could hear something from the speakers and that was at resonably low volume... hiss, on the bit-perfect filter in PCM mode. turned it up to max volume and it was very audible hiss. i switched to minimum phase and standard and it was silent at 0 db. i guess i just missed that on my old speakers because they were not as good (crap) so kudos to the ELACs for highlighting that... but why the hiss? again it was very audible


----------



## jhwalker

mashi-maro said:


> Hi everyone
> First time poster from new member from Australia.
> 
> I am proud owner of idsd micro. Just a few issues I want to clarify.
> ...


 

 re: 1 - same here, below about 10 o'clock, unbalanced.  Irritating :/


----------



## Mashi-Maro

Is there anything we can do about it? 
Does changing Eco normal turbo modes affect the preamp RCA output levels? I'm overseas thus can't check.


----------



## osiris1

mashi-maro said:


> Hi everyone
> First time poster from new member from Australia.
> 
> I am proud owner of idsd micro. Just a few issues I want to clarify.
> ...


 
 I appear to have the same issue. But I think selecting a different IEM match and turning up the volume knob will help. That's what I do.


----------



## john57

I was told by IFI support that the IEM match is just for the headphone output does nothing to the RCA output.
  
 P.S. But on my monitors I adjust the gain trim on the back of the monitor  to match the volume control of my micro at 12:00 clock. Some stereo power receivers do have adjustable gain on the inputs like my Onkyo.


----------



## osiris1

john57 said:


> I was told by IFI support that the IEM match is just for the headphone output does nothing to the RCA output.


 
 whoops... I didn't read the part about speakers. I haven't tested with speakers yet.


----------



## Mashi-Maro

john57 said:


> I was told by IFI support that the IEM match is just for the headphone output does nothing to the RCA output.
> 
> P.S. But on my monitors I adjust the gain trim on the back of the monitor  to match the volume control of my micro at 12:00 clock. Some stereo power receivers do have adjustable gain on the inputs like my Onkyo.


 
 Oh bugger, in that case it'll be a left channel only at night then because my Rotel RB-1582 doesn't have adjustable gains at input. Sigh why can't iFi have Pots that doesn't have this issue. There are heaps of Preamps with analogue volume pots without this imbalance problem.
  
 Any further advance on the poll of who has channel imbalance?


----------



## earfonia

triodemode said:


> Just asking for this quick definitive test, as it is possible from your statement that the unit may not getting a signal on it's SPDIF input.


 
  
 Yes, that was the case yesterday.
  
 Last night, after using it in USB power mode for about half an hour, I decided to try to charge it again. And suddenly it looks good. The blue LED ON for a few seconds, and then turned OFF for a while, and then ON again steadily. I left it charging last night, this morning I found the blue LED was OFF.
  
 This morning I tested both SPDIF and USB connection using battery power mode, and everything is working fine. Same DAP, same SPDIF coaxial cable, same USB port. Strange. I don't understand what happened yesterday.
  
 I will monitor and use it for a while now, hopefully everything is fine now.
  
  


mashi-maro said:


> Hi everyone
> First time poster from new member from Australia.
> 
> I am proud owner of idsd micro. Just a few issues I want to clarify.
> ...


 
  
 I also have the same problem. Below 9:30' o'clock position, the right channel softened quite a lot, the sound shifted to the left channel. Above 9:30' the balance is ok.  Looks like manufacturing error of their volume pot.


----------



## Triodemode

mashi-maro said:


> Hi everyone
> First time poster from new member from Australia.
> 
> I am proud owner of idsd micro. Just a few issues I want to clarify.
> ...


 

 Most music player software programs have the ability to adjust volume.  On my FB2K there are a couple of places to reduce audio level, simply with the control panel volume control, of by changing the replay gain setting in preferences.  Just a thought.


----------



## john57

mashi-maro said:


> Oh bugger, in that case it'll be a left channel only at night then because my Rotel RB-1582 doesn't have adjustable gains at input. Sigh why can't iFi have Pots that doesn't have this issue. There are heaps of Preamps with analogue volume pots without this imbalance problem.
> 
> Any further advance on the poll of who has channel imbalance?


 
 I have not noticed much with mine but I had analogue pots before with imbalance. There almost always some until 9:00 o'clock. IFI seems to be using a four channel micro ALPS pot. In the past I have ran into some bad ALPS pots even know it is a good brand.  Each year I rotate the analogue pots fully a dozen times in an attempt to keep clean the wiper in the pot.  If the imbalance is bad I open ticket with IFI. I also do know that  IFI makes some RCA attenuators which can be a solution in some cases.


----------



## Mashi-Maro

triodemode said:


> Most music player software programs have the ability to adjust volume.  On my FB2K there are a couple of places to reduce audio level, simply with the control panel volume control, of by changing the replay gain setting in preferences.  Just a thought.


 
  
 Just tried but doesn't work with ASIO


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> Yes, that was the case yesterday.
> 
> Last night, after using it in USB power mode for about half an hour, I decided to try to charge it again. And suddenly it looks good. The blue LED ON for a few seconds, and then turned OFF for a while, and then ON again steadily. I left it charging last night, this morning I found the blue LED was OFF.
> 
> ...


 

 After your issue, it struck me as to why iFi has chosen to use flashing green to indicate both lack of signal AND a battery issue.  IMO since blue already relates to battery operation, they should have just made that same color flash to indicate a battery problem.   Maybe this can be changed in a firmware update?


----------



## john57

triodemode said:


> After your issue, it struck me as to why iFi has chosen to use flashing green to indicate both lack of signal AND a battery issue.  IMO since blue already relates to battery operation, they should have just made that same color flash to indicate a battery problem.   Maybe this can be changed in a firmware update?


 
 My understanding was there is two speeds for the flashing green a faster one for battery and a slower one for no signal but I understand the issue.


----------



## Triodemode

mashi-maro said:


> Just tried but doesn't work with ASIO


 

 Yup, forgot that on DSD with ASIO most all GUI options get bypassed.


----------



## TontonJoK

technobear said:


> I already answered you question. What do you not understand?
> 
> As I said already, 3D and XBASS are active in pre-amp mode through the RCA outputs.




Thanks technobear 

English is not my first language :rolleyes:

If I do so should I set the idsd volume all the way up or down to control the volume with my pan am amp ?


----------



## technobear

tontonjok said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > I already answered you question. What do you not understand?
> ...




Set the volume all the way UP and be sure that you are using ECO mode.

----

On the subject of channel imbalance, yes it's poor below about 10 o'clock.


----------



## TontonJoK

Ok let's find one


----------



## bms44974

roamling said:


> just noticed something strange, i recently bought a pair of ELAC BS 312 speakers and they are very resolving... so was just browsing for music in my folders, nothing playing but I could hear something from the speakers and that was at resonably low volume... hiss, on the bit-perfect filter in PCM mode. turned it up to max volume and it was very audible hiss. i switched to minimum phase and standard and it was silent at 0 db. i guess i just missed that on my old speakers because they were not as good (crap) so kudos to the ELACs for highlighting that... but why the hiss? again it was very audible


 

 I had a similar problem with my iDAC micro. After much experimenting, it turned out to be the AC power adapter on my laptop. When I disconnected from the AC power, the hiss went away. Unplugged (or with the OEM AC adapter), the background was black as night, but with a third-party power adapter the EMI was hard to miss. I'm looking for another adapter so I don't have to keep lugging the OEM adapter back and forth to work.


----------



## maricius

bms44974 said:


> I had a similar problem with my iDAC micro. After much experimenting, it turned out to be the AC power adapter on my laptop. When I disconnected from the AC power, the hiss went away. Unplugged (or with the OEM AC adapter), the background was black as night, but with a third-party power adapter the EMI was hard to miss. I'm looking for another adapter so I don't have to keep lugging the OEM adapter back and forth to work.


 
  
 The noise at BitPerfect has been mentioned and kinda discussed before!! It's present even with an iUSB or even if the micro iDSD is on battery-power mode. Whether it's noticeable is dependent on other people's gear. It's very easy to pick up on my Fidelio L2 but difficult to pick up of my FAD Heaven VI IEMs. 
  
 It's only noticeable on tracks with sample rates below 88.2kHz


----------



## roamling

bms44974 said:


> I had a similar problem with my iDAC micro. After much experimenting, it turned out to be the AC power adapter on my laptop. When I disconnected from the AC power, the hiss went away. Unplugged (or with the OEM AC adapter), the background was black as night, but with a third-party power adapter the EMI was hard to miss. I'm looking for another adapter so I don't have to keep lugging the OEM adapter back and forth to work.


 
  
 thanks for the reply, but then I am wondering why the two other filter options ("minimum phase" and "standard") don't have the hiss? I can only hear it very clearly when "bit-perfect" is selected, with the other two its dead quiet. Is that what happened in your case as well?


----------



## roamling

maricius said:


> The noise at BitPerfect has been mentioned and kinda discussed before!! It's present even with an iUSB or even if the micro iDSD is on battery-power mode. Whether it's noticeable is dependent on other people's gear. It's very easy to pick up on my Fidelio L2 but difficult to pick up of my FAD Heaven VI IEMs.
> 
> It's only noticeable on tracks with sample rates below 88.2kHz


 
  
 so is that a bug? I have read about this in other posts in this thread before but have not found a solution to it. In my speaker setup its almost as loud as the hiss that i get from my phono pre amp (where you expect it) but I only noticed it recently with my new set of speakers where my volume was on the normal listening position (so its not that I have to turn it up to unreasonable levels to hear it).


----------



## maricius

roamling said:


> so is that a bug? I have read about this in other posts in this thread before but have not found a solution to it. In my speaker setup its almost as loud as the hiss that i get from my phono pre amp (where you expect it) but I only noticed it recently with my new set of speakers where my volume was on the normal listening position (so its not that I have to turn it up to unreasonable levels to hear it).


 
  
 According to iFi, it's not a bug, it's part of BitPerfect, but they're trying to fix it. Thank God for Minimum Phase though.


----------



## bms44974

roamling said:


> thanks for the reply, but then I am wondering why the two other filter options ("minimum phase" and "standard") don't have the hiss? I can only hear it very clearly when "bit-perfect" is selected, with the other two its dead quiet. Is that what happened in your case as well?


 

 Guess I'll have to buy the iDSD and find out (I was looking for an excuse and this is as good as any). There are no such controls on the iDAC.


----------



## fzman

tontonjok said:


> Thanks technobear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 use the preamplifier/direct switch on the bottom so you can pick whether the micro's volume control ffects the output or not--  use direct when you have a volume control downstream.


----------



## roamling

A quick update on my hiss "issue": iFi Audio got in contact with me and it seems it pretty much the the tweeter of my new speaker which can reproduce signals up to 50khz that is reacting up on ultrasonic noise and other noise components that are inherent with the "bit-perfect" filter when playing 44.1KHz Audio. Normally it is not audible or only at very low levels. So in my case I will use the other filters instead and this seems to be a phenomenon specific to my audio setup, just to bear that in mind. And thanks iFi (Thorsten especially for explaining it)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wow very nice to get answers from the top 
Something rare in audio like this. Although I do know if others but there products are much more expensive 
Al


----------



## maricius

roamling said:


> A quick update on my hiss "issue": iFi Audio got in contact with me and it seems it pretty much the the tweeter of my new speaker which can reproduce signals up to 50khz that is reacting up on ultrasonic noise and other noise components that are inherent with the "bit-perfect" filter when playing 44.1KHz Audio. Normally it is not audible or only at very low levels. So in my case I will use the other filters instead and this seems to be a phenomenon specific to my audio setup, just to bear that in mind. And thanks iFi (Thorsten especially for explaining it)


 
  
 I don't think my L2 reaches 50kHz HAHAHA. It's easy audible and it's surely in the higher frequencies. Maybe lower treble? Upper mids? Turning 3D on increases the hiss as well. What I've noticed with my gear is that it's the neutral-bright gear that picks it up easier the warmer or darker gear needs to go past listening levels for it to be noticed.


----------



## audiotweaker

mashi-maro said:


> Hi everyone
> First time poster from new member from Australia.
> 
> I am proud owner of idsd micro. Just a few issues I want to clarify.
> ...


 
 I too have the channel imbalance problem but it is only below the 9 o:clock position so it does not bother me much.  For headphone listening I can always select a lower power mode and for the RCA outputs I usually use it with a preamp in direct mode.
  
 But I will certainly report this to iFi-audio so they can look into it and improve their products going forward.  Especially considering they advertise this on their tech spec page:
  

Volume with Power On/Off switchPrecision analogue volume control<2dB Tracking error


----------



## iFi audio

audiotweaker said:


> I too have the channel imbalance problem but it is only below the 9 o:clock position so it does not bother me much.  For headphone listening I can always select a lower power mode and for the RCA outputs I usually use it with a preamp in direct mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi All,

  
 There is nothing to look into as such. We do not employ the digital volume control. We incorporated the analogue volume control for the best sonics.

  
 It is strongly recommended that the Power modes + iEMatch are deployed to effect normal listening levels at 12 to 3 o clock.

  
 This is where it is best to "open" up the volume potentiometer.

  
 The micro iDSD is like a hot rod. Tickling it at 1,000-2,000 revs is not where this Meaty Monster wants to reside.

  
 Rev it hard and run it at the equivalent of 8,000-9,000 revs like a Honda VTEC engine.

  
 If listening is done at <12 o clock, it is being under-utilised.

  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## MLGrado

I have heard of the channel imbalance 'issue' before.  If you are experiencing this, you are listening at the very, very extreme of the volume pot.  I would not suggest this.  You should modify your power and iem sensitivity settings to bring your volume range up to the 12 o'clock and greater position.  
  
  
 In my experience, the volume control COMPLETELY attenuates at around 8:30 on the volume pot. Just past 8:30 a single channel comes on.  Just short of 9 o'clock, both channels are on and are properly balanced.  
  
 So you can see there is a very, very small part of the volume control right above zero volume that is imbalanced.  You could almost sneeze and push it from off to perfectly balanced 
  
  
 Again, if you are listening down there, you need to make some adjustments.  The only reason anyone is really noticing this is the amount of flexibility iFi has offered with the power and gain settings.  If the Micro were preset from the factory for 'universal' settings, you would never be listening to the volume control at that level.  
  
 Also, I don't think it is a good practice to use any volume control, no matter how well regarded it is, at its extreme attenuation level.  
  
  
 As far as the hiss is concerned in BitPerfect, it will be there with some equipment and not others. You will only hear it on 44.1 or 48 khz material.  You may not hear it at all, depending on your downstream electronics.  If you do hear it, then use will need to use Minimum Phase filter for those sample rates, or upsample those rates in software.  I would personally recommend using minimum phase filter, though.


----------



## MLGrado

maricius said:


> According to iFi, it's not a bug, it's part of BitPerfect, but they're trying to fix it. Thank God for Minimum Phase though.


 
  
 Yes, it is a 'consequence' of an 'unorthodox' implementation of the DSD1793 chip.   So iFi is kindof in uncharted waters, here.  A 'consequence' of trying to bring a higher level of audio fidelity with this hardware.  I applaud them for being on the cutting edge and not settling for the status quo.  
  
 At worst, people will need to use Minimum Phase filtering at 44.1/48 khz.  Which sounds very, very nice, by the way.  We are talking about tiny differences, here with these filters.  
  
 At best, iFi will find a workaround and all will be well.  Time will tell.  
  
 Actually, when one considers how truly complex this device is, combined with how fast they were able to bring it to market, they have accomplished an amazing feat.  Afterall, I would count this bitperfect thing as the only 'real' issue with the product.  Second on my list of issues would be the 'pop' with DoP, but that is more an annoyance and I don't use DoP, anyway.  There have been a few other minor complaints, but I don't think they belong in any legitimate list of issues.  Not yet, anyway.


----------



## Mashi-Maro

ifi audio said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 
> There is nothing to look into as such. We do not employ the digital volume control. We incorporated the analogue volume control for the best sonics.
> ...


 
 Hi iFi.  Thanks for the analogy. But how should I tackle my preamp out issue if my power amp doesn't have gain/attenuation settings for low volume listening at night. How does other preamps with analogue pots (such as my tube preamp) avoid such channel imbalance at low volume. Cheers.


----------



## Mashi-Maro

mlgrado said:


> Second on my list of issues would be the 'pop' with DoP, but that is more an annoyance and I don't use DoP, anyway.  There have been a few other minor complaints, but I don't think they belong in any legitimate list of issues.  Not yet, anyway.


 
  
 I too have 'pop' when it changes from DSD to PCM (FLAC) files and vice-versa. Hope a firmware fix for it.


----------



## TontonJoK

No idsd micro referenced in my country :eek:


----------



## iFi audio

mashi-maro said:


> Hi iFi.  Thanks for the analogy. But how should I tackle my preamp out issue if my power amp doesn't have gain/attenuation settings for low volume listening at night. How does other preamps with analogue pots (such as my tube preamp) avoid such channel imbalance at low volume. Cheers.


 

 HI,
  
 Open a support ticket and send us your system information.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Once we have taken a look at your specific system, we may/may not be able to advise but we'll try.
  
 Thanks


----------



## neopac

ifi audio said:


> ....
> 
> The micro iDSD is like a hot rod. Tickling it at 1,000-2,000 revs is not where this Meaty Monster wants to reside.
> 
> ...


 
  
 well said sir.
 harvard business school, first day of class... *_make your customers feel like retards, that will solve their issues*_
  
_regards_


----------



## Mashi-Maro

ifi audio said:


> HI,
> 
> Open a support ticket and send us your system information.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ticket created. Thanks.


----------



## Mashi-Maro

neopac said:


> well said sir.
> harvard business school, first day of class... *_make your customers feel like retards, that will solve their issues*_
> 
> _regards_


 
 +1
  
 Octa-adopter = beta-testers ??


----------



## tf1216

For any of you with questions regarding the iDSD inner-workings, I suggest giving the manual a read.  There are answers in their for many of the questions that have been posted.


----------



## MLGrado

My brain loves graphs and pretty pictures.  
  
 Although this isn't a pretty picture, (it tested the limits of my 'Paint' skills), I think it shows quite well the scope of the channel imbalance issue.  I have always considered it a non-issue, as it occurs in the immediate vicinity of zero volume.  If you are listening down there, as I have said before, you need to make some adjustments.


----------



## MLGrado

Also, if you are needing to use the volume control at or near full attenuation with an external amp, whether we are talking about the iDSD Micro or any other DAC or preamp, you have a gain issue.  Component synergy is a big thing, and unfortunately good components are not always good for one another.  
  
  
 As far as being an early adopter, I think you have to be prepared for some minor issues.  No company can possibly account for all the various equipment combinations and scenarios.  Realistically, some minor bumps along the way are expected.  Especially with a product as fully featured as the iDSD Micro.  That said, the amount of issues that are of any concern is very, very small.  I have used the Micro every day since I was one of the very first to receive it.  Most issues I have heard about are absolute non-issues here.  There are only a couple worth mentioning, and I am already on record about those.


----------



## Mr Creosote

I don't seem to have problem with the iDSD micro output with my amplifier,but checking the manual it says that eco mode is 0db and the normal and turbo mode is 9db of gain.So Mashi-Maro you should check if you have the iDSD in eco mode.As for a the analogies Please try to run like a Nissan Leaf and not a GTR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oops another car analogy.


----------



## roamling

i agree with MLGrado, here is versatile product which is working to very high standards and covers a lot of use scenarios. it costs around 500 euros and was designed based on user feedback. the guys at ifi put a lot of effort in this project and deserve a lot of credit. of course there are some scenarios where this product cant be a full substitute for different use scenarios at the same time without compromises. 

i learned a lot of things in the dialog with the ifi designers and engineers, i enjoy using the product and yes i have reservations about blue cables and dsd usability but that does not take away from a great product experience


----------



## Mudshark

mlgrado said:


> Actually, when one considers how truly complex this device is, combined with how fast they were able to bring it to market, they have accomplished an amazing feat.  *Afterall, I would count this bitperfect thing as the only 'real' issue with the product.  Second on my list of issues would be the 'pop' with DoP, but that is more an annoyance and I don't use DoP, anyway.  *There have been a few other minor complaints, but I don't think they belong in any legitimate list of issues.  Not yet, anyway.


 
  
 I have both the Bitperfect "hiss" issue and the DoP "pop" issue (I use DoP as well as ASIO).  In my opinion, the Bitperfect "hiss" issue PALES in comparison to the the DoP "pop" issue.  I have to struggle to HEAR the "hiss," whereas I have to struggle to AVOID the pop.


----------



## BillsonChang007

roamling said:


> i agree with MLGrado, here is versatile product which is working to very high standards and covers a lot of use scenarios. it costs around 500 euros and was designed based on user feedback. the guys at ifi put a lot of effort in this project and deserve a lot of credit. of course there are some scenarios where this product cant be a full substitute for different use scenarios at the same time without compromises.
> 
> i learned a lot of things in the dialog with the ifi designers and engineers, i enjoy using the product and yes i have reservations about blue cables and dsd usability but that does not take away from a great product experience




+1 to this!


----------



## MLGrado

There are some other DACs out there that use Burr Brown chips, therefore they convert DSD to analog in a similar way as the iDSD Nano and Micro.  
  
 I wanted to see if users of these DACs also reported pops and ticks when switching DSD tracks, etc.  Indeed, just a cursory google search says yes.  For instance, the Teac UD-501, which has the TI PCM1795 Dac.  A later version of the DSD1793, though according to many 'in the know' an inferior chip.  There are indeed reports of pops changing tracks and formats, especially when using DSD on the Teac.  I have also seen reports of similar pops and ticks on the Schitt Loki.  It uses an AKM chip, that according to the datasheet does NOT process DSD natively.  But, datasheets are notorious for being wrong, and sometimes outright deceptive.  It may indeed actually offer native conversion.  At least one 'expert' I have spoken with suspects that may be the case.  But the jury is out on that.  In any case, it apparently suffers from similar pops.  
  
  
 Seems that indeed it is just an unwanted byproduct of DSD and DoP.  iFi has done a good job explaining the phenomenon.  iFi has a great software team, and if this can be eliminated within reasonable constraints, it will be.  But it may just be something we have to deal with.  Yeah, it is annoying.  But I would put up with small annoyances if the tradeoff is great sound.  Or, like in my case, use ASIO Native, and there are no pops at all.  
  
  
 That leaves us with just the Bitpefect issue.  And I am very hopeful that iFi can work out the issue that some people are having.  If not, though, we just have to use minimum phase for a couple of rates.  Now that is not a solution, but then again, iFi didn't have to go with custom programming to enable a feature that really isn't supposed to be possible anyway.  The BitPerfect filter is like gravy, or icing on the cake.  If I can't have it, oh well.  I still have a helluva tasty cake.  But, my hopes are still up that they can make a few programming changes that will eliminate the issue completely.


----------



## john57

According to J.River history they were aware of the problem with Pops and clicks with DSD DAC's and in some cases a burst of noise. J.River started figuring ways to get around the issue with their software back in September 2012. Even now manufactures like LH Labs still have issue with pops with DSD files when 3D sound is engaged. Nothing seems to be  perfect in reality. I relish my ability to get around the issues with every piece of gear I own and just enjoy playing my music.  In time things tend to get better.


----------



## audioholik

mlgrado said:


> Seems that indeed it is just an unwanted byproduct of DSD and DoP.  iFi has done a good job explaining the phenomenon.  iFi has a great software team, and if this can be eliminated within reasonable constraints, it will be.  But it may just be something we have to deal with.  Yeah, it is annoying.  But I would put up with small annoyances if the tradeoff is great sound.  Or, like in my case, use ASIO Native, and there are no pops at all.


 
  
 Using ASIO Native, instead of DoP (the culprit of pops), is a no-brainer when you're on a Windows system. 
  
 Fortunately, ASIO support is now being brought to Mac OSX as well, and that should solve the 'pop' issue once and for all.


----------



## audiotweaker

audioholik said:


> Using ASIO Native, instead of DoP (the culprit of pops), is a no-brainer when you're on a Windows system.
> 
> Fortunately, ASIO support is now being brought to Mac OSX as well, and that should solve the 'pop' issue once and for all.


 
  
 If and only if iFi-audio produces a Mac ASIO driver for the Micro.  You keep making it sound like it is a given.  Did someone at iFi-audio tell you they will do this?


----------



## LoryWiv

mlgrado said:


> My brain loves graphs and pretty pictures.
> 
> Although this isn't a pretty picture, (it tested the limits of my 'Paint' skills), I think it shows quite well the scope of the channel imbalance issue.  I have always considered it a non-issue, as it occurs in the immediate vicinity of zero volume.  If you are listening down there, as I have said before, you need to make some adjustments.


 
  
 Well stated, MLGrado. Anywhere over 9:00 O'clock on volume pot and I hear no channel imbalance. For the occasional source material where turbo mode is too loud over 9:00, I  downshift to standard (sorry for another automotive analogy) and up the volume .... for us relative newcomers to the high end, I can tell you that this problem was FAR worse with my last amp (iBasso Boa+). I actually am rather amazed by the degree of instrument separation and width (not so much depth or height) of soundstage of the Beethoven string quartet I am listening to right now through my old AKG 240's.... turbo mode, volume at 10:00 O'clock. Anyway, thanks for the graphic depiction which I think is spot on.


----------



## GradoSound

audioholik said:


> Fortunately, ASIO support is now being brought to Mac OSX as well, and that should solve the 'pop' issue once and for all.


 
  
 This is news to me. Any details to share?


----------



## audioholik

audiotweaker said:


> If and only if iFi-audio produces a Mac ASIO driver for the Micro.  You keep making it sound like it is a given.  Did someone at iFi-audio tell you they will do this?


 
  
 No (they neither confirmed nor denied it), but you keep making it sound like the solution to the problem doesn't exist, when it actually does exist, it only has to be implemented by more companies, including iFi.


----------



## audioholik

gradosound said:


> This is news to me. Any details to share?


 
  
 http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/155/Decibel-13--The-First-Audiophile-Player-with-Mac-OS-X-ASIO-Support.aspx


----------



## john57

What I have noticed from the press release by Decibel: With the release of OS X Apple discontinued ASIO support developed by Steinberg. It was replaced with Core Audio.  ASIO is really not a full exact stardards. It is more of a method of developing a means for the hardware to talk directly with the player software application to bypass some of the OS audio subsystem.  All ASIO driver are custom made to work with that OS level, hardware and the audio application that is written to support the ASIO driver.  Decibel and exaSound worked together and recreated the ASIO medthod to make it available *again* on Mac. If Apple comes out with another version of OS it may break the ASIO driver as it seems that Apple does not care much for ASIO support at this time. Each DAC manufacture will have its own developed ASIO driver to work with it.


----------



## audioholik

john57 said:


> According to J.River history they were aware of the problem with Pops and clicks with DSD DAC's and in some cases a burst of noise. J.River started figuring ways to get around the issue with their software back in September 2012.


 
  
 Unfortunately, they failed at it and the DoP issue is still there in September 2014.
  
 In the meantime, Decibel -- and two months after Decibel, another developer Signalyst/HQPlayer -- enabled Mac ASIO Native mode on their apps.


----------



## Mr Creosote

> Originally Posted by *roamling*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with roamling.


----------



## GradoSound

audioholik said:


> http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/155/Decibel-13--The-First-Audiophile-Player-with-Mac-OS-X-ASIO-Support.aspx


 
  
 Thanks for the link. It looks like ASIO driver needs to be developed by DAC companies. So, if we have three different DACs from three companies we would end up with three ASIO drivers. Weird.


----------



## audioholik

gradosound said:


> Thanks for the link. It looks like ASIO driver needs to be developed by DAC companies. So, if we have three different DACs from three companies we would end up with three ASIO drivers. Weird.


 
  
 And how does the situation look like with Windows? Do iFi's ASIO drivers work with other DACs?


----------



## roamling

audioholik said:


> And how does the situation look like with Windows? Do iFi's ASIO drivers work with other DACs?


 
  
 I would say no, I guess it only works with the ifi and AMR devices listed on their website. I had many different USB DACs in the past and they all had their own specific Windows driver with different features and interfaces.


----------



## audioholik

roamling said:


> I would say no, I guess it only works with the ifi and AMR devices listed on their website. I had many different USB DACs in the past and they all had their own specific Windows driver with different features and interfaces.


 
  
 Then GradoSound's gripe about having to install a driver is a non-issue. I doubt that iFi ever received a trouble ticket from anyone just because they didn't like the idea of installing a driver for their iFi/AMR DAC, and they surely received plenty with the DoP thing.


----------



## roamling

audioholik said:


> Then GradoSound's gripe about having to install a driver is a non-issue. I doubt that iFi ever received a trouble ticket from anyone just because they didn't like the idea of installing a driver for their iFi/AMR DAC, and they surely received plenty with the DoP thing.


 
  
 although i have to say there are some universal drivers like this one
  
 http://www.aqvox.de/asio-usb-e.html
  
 which do seem to be compatible with multiple DACs, so the question is if the AISO drivers that are part of the manufactures driver package would work on their own for other DACs


----------



## john57

roamling said:


> although i have to say there are some universal drivers like this one
> 
> http://www.aqvox.de/asio-usb-e.html
> 
> which do seem to be compatible with multiple DACs, so the question is if the AISO drivers that are part of the manufactures driver package would work on their own for other DACs


 
 That is a is based on a proprietary driver technology. This driver does *not* have low latency which was one of the key reasons that Steinberg originally created the ASIO( Audio Stream Input/Output ) protocol for digital audio work for use with their music production software. Having low latency was important  at the time with MIDI keyboards which used to drive me nuts in the early days of music production work. I also had Giga Studio which uses their own proprietary driver technology which only certain sound cards will work with it.


----------



## audiotweaker

audioholik said:


> No (they neither confirmed nor denied it), but you keep making it sound like the solution to the problem doesn't exist, when it actually does exist, it only has to be implemented by more companies, including iFi.


 
  
 There is no *current* fix, one we can implement *today*.
  
 Besides, an ASIO driver for Mac only solves the issue on that platform.  It does not solve the DoP problem on iOS or android devices.  I use all three for music players with my Micro iDSD.  I'd much rather they found a fix for the DoP pop in the device itself.  iFi-audio assures me they are working diligently to find a fix.  Cross your fingers.


----------



## audioholik

audiotweaker said:


> There is no *current* fix, one we can implement *today*.
> 
> Besides, an ASIO driver for Mac only solves the issue on that platform.  It does not solve the DoP problem on iOS or android devices.  I use all three for music players with my Micro iDSD.  I'd much rather they found a fix for the DoP pop in the device itself.  iFi-audio assures me they are working diligently to find a fix.  Cross your fingers.


 
  
 I'd prefer if they provided a fix (or at least a workaround of some sorts) to the buggy DoP protocol *as well as* ensured compatibility with Mac ASIO DSD mode that is *currently* available on Decibel and HQPlayer, as I would much rather bypass Core Audio altogether.


----------



## chawya22

audioholik said:


> I'd prefer if they provided a fix (or at least a workaround of some sorts) to the buggy DoP protocol *as well as* ensured compatibility with Mac ASIO DSD mode that is *currently* available on Decibel and HQPlayer, as I would much rather bypass Core Audio altogether.


 
 Audirvana + has the option that allows you to choose Apple CoreAudio or iZotope 64-bit SRC.


----------



## audiotweaker

chawya22 said:


> Audirvana + has the option that allows you to choose Apple CoreAudio or iZotope 64-bit SRC.


 
  
 That is for Sample Rate Conversion (SRC), not for a USB audio driver.


----------



## blackwolf1006

How is this amp compared to the Pico power or Pico DAM/AMP?


----------



## Triodemode

Does anybody know where iFi products are manufactured?  I know iFi's parent company is AMR based in the UK, and am assuming this is where the products are designed as well.  This thread has been quiet the last few days.  Maybe it's just the first 512 people being too absorbed listening to exceptional micro iDSD.


----------



## Memorexx168

I think it said China on the box. But I'm not quite sure. I bought it last week with brand new sennheisers 700hd. Wow. Just amazing


----------



## bms44974

The box for my iDAC reads, "Technology licensed from AMR-Audio, UK, Assembled in China". I'm guessing the same is true for iDSD.


----------



## maricius

bms44974 said:


> The box for my iDAC reads, "Technology licensed from AMR-Audio, UK, Assembled in China". I'm guessing the same is true for iDSD.


 
  
 It is


----------



## maricius

A small comparison to the micro iDSD sneaked in by Michael Lavorgna in his review of the $1999 Pro-Ject Stream Box RS:
  
"The overall sound picture was also a bit more condensed as compared to these other more costly separates and also compared to my MacBook Pro with the iFi micro iDSD. This combo also offered a bit more variation in timbre, the Stream Box being not as rich-sounding, as well as an overall brighter, livelier sound. (Lavorgna, 2014)"
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/box-designs-pro-ject-stream-box-rs


----------



## semeniub

I was fortunate to be able to pick up a lightly used micro iCAN recently, and can confirm that it partners up really nicely with the DAC section of the micro iDSD. As others have said, you get more 3D and XBass options, giving an even richer and more enveloping sound.
  
 Listening to a 24/192 needledrop of the latest Ryan Adams album with these two together, and it sounds just fab.


----------



## Mashi-Maro

I have an update.
  
 I sent back my iDSD Micro  for changing of the board regarding my channel imbalance. The new board POT has a smaller amount of imbalance HOWEVER there is NO MORE PCM HISS in bit-perfect mode. I don't know if the new board has a newer firmware or it's different hardware?
  
 I can't remember exactly but my new board has a gold plated USB smartcharging out female plug. Can someone verify if the series 1 boards have just silver usb plug? This could mean new hardware. (I know the digital in male plus is gold plated).
  
 Overall very very happy with my iDSD Micro and kudos to James @ Avatar Acoustics for fixing it for me in a very timely manner with new a perfect product!


----------



## BillsonChang007

mashi-maro said:


> I have an update.
> 
> I sent back my iDSD Micro  for changing of the board regarding my channel imbalance. The new board POT has a smaller amount of imbalance HOWEVER there is NO MORE PCM HISS in bit-perfect mode. I don't know if the new board has a newer firmware or it's different hardware?
> 
> ...




Mine is gold


----------



## maricius

mashi-maro said:


> I have an update.
> 
> I sent back my iDSD Micro  for changing of the board regarding my channel imbalance. The new board POT has a smaller amount of imbalance *HOWEVER there is NO MORE PCM HISS in bit-perfect mode.* I don't know if the new board has a newer firmware or it's different hardware?
> 
> ...




DAMN 



billsonchang007 said:


> Mine is gold




Mine as well


----------



## iFi audio

EISA award video *Little Big iFi in Berlin* 
 Source: http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/little-big-ifi-jets-off-to-berlin-to-bring-home-the-eisa-award/



  
 We have been a bit quiet of late - partly because of the micro iDSD launch, partly because of the show season and partly because of the EISA award for the nano iDSD.


  
 With regards to the latter, given the very plush EISA awards ceremony, we just had to made a very brief video of our trip over to Berlin and share it with you all.


  
And we made it a little light-hearted too.


  
Once again, thank you to all the EISA judges and to our all our customers for supporting the nano iDSD.


----------



## Triodemode

mashi-maro said:


> I have an update.
> 
> I sent back my iDSD Micro  for changing of the board regarding my channel imbalance. The new board POT has a smaller amount of imbalance HOWEVER there is NO MORE PCM HISS in bit-perfect mode. I don't know if the new board has a newer firmware or it's different hardware?
> 
> ...


 
 I am very curious as well whether it is firmware or hardware that causes this noise in bit perfect mode playing PCM files.  My charging port USB is not gold and I can hear this digital noise in between tracks and during very quiet passages.
  
 I know MLGrado mentioned earlier in this thread that he thinks noise in this mode is just a by-product of very limited processing, but now I wonder if there is more to the issue?


----------



## jexby

If I wasn't a tad remote I would do so myself, but can an iClub member request a clear answer from support.

If needed, would love to get mine upgraded at RMAF directly.


----------



## roamling

ifi audio said:


> EISA award video
> 
> *[COLOR=0070C0]Little Big iFi in Berlin[/COLOR]*
> 
> ...




Congratulations


----------



## BillsonChang007

roamling said:


> Congratulations




+1! Congratulation, iFi-Audio!


----------



## Mashi-Maro

Congrates iFi-Audio!!


----------



## 406382

Can anybody comment on the sonic difference between the iDSD Micro vs iCan + iDAC combo? Does the iDSD lag behind in terms of sound quality or is it about the same?


----------



## iFi audio

*3 Steps: Micro iDSD "DoP pop" fix via Firmware upgrade* With native DSD playback, on some audio software playback programs, the "pop" issue is dealt with/not dealt with. This is an upstream characteristics of native, DSD playback and varies from system to system.
  
 A little background here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/pop-goes-dsd-why-does-this-happen/
  

 We have coded a downstream solution for this upstream issue.

*Preparation:*
 i. Ensure you have the latest iFi Windows Driver (v2.20) from here:
http://ifi-audio.com/download/ 

 ii. Go here: http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
 And save the firmware file “*idsdv406.bin*” to a folder of your choice (eg. Downloads)

  
 iii. Connect the MICRO iDSD to a Windows computer  (OS X is not possible).


  
 After this upgrade:
Win users (DoP)
 With JRMC, the upstream “pop” issue from the source is virtually non-existent. With Foobar2K, there is still some residual “pop” hence we recommend JRMC until F2K catches up.


  
OS X users (DoP)
 Using Audirvana, the upstream “pop” issue from the source is much reduced.


  
iPhone/iPad users (DoP)
 With Onkyo HF player, the “pop” issue has gone. With Hibiki, there is still a residual “pop”.


  
 We hope you find this firmware update useful.

  
 We can also email through a pdf of the instruction sheet.

  
 Please open a support ticket here:
  http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Thanks


----------



## 406382

Thumbs up for Ifi support and development.
  
 Balancing time, money and quality spent on a product is no easy trick. I don't really mind bugs / issues on new products, as long as they are ironed out within a decent time span (weeks or months, not years). The combination of low price, high performance and bug-free is a lot to ask from a company when complex products are concerned. I'd rather wait for a few bugsfixes and get high performance, instead of more money going to longer QA before product release.


----------



## roamling

I will do the update later this evening, I wonder if this fix will also work in my Linux environment running Squeezeserver Lite with DSD over DOP option.
 I report back later on that


----------



## BillsonChang007

Not sure if am I doing it right... But I have no pop sound with FB2k ever since I start using MP3 to DSD at Day 1. 

Anyway, I often find the Minimum-phase to sound best with most of my tracks than the Bit-Perfect. Having a week of break from school here but something been keeping me busy, ordering a Project Sunrise III with five extra tubes from Garage1217 to pair with the Micro iDSD. Am extremely excited about it! Don't get me wrong thought, the Micro iDSD itself as a amp/DAC combo is great with plenty of power to spare but I want a tube amplifier to try with


----------



## roamling

billsonchang007 said:


> Not sure if am I doing it right... But I have no pop sound with FB2k ever since I start using MP3 to DSD at Day 1.
> 
> Anyway, I often find the Minimum-phase to sound best with most of my tracks than the Bit-Perfect. Having a week of break from school here but something been keeping me busy, ordering a Project Sunrise III with five extra tubes from Garage1217 to pair with the Micro iDSD. Am extremely excited about it! Don't get me wrong thought, the Micro iDSD itself as a amp/DAC combo is great with plenty of power to spare but I want a tube amplifier to try with


 
  
 I have a Sunrise III from Garage 1217 and thats what is use with the micro iDSD!
  

  
  
 I think you won’t be disappointed. I use it with a Sennheiser HD 650. It’s definitely a darker tube sound you get from the Sunrise III but make sure you select the right tube for your needs, different tubes have different gain values and this amp can go loud. 

  
 For me it’s very convenient to have two different superb headphone amps, with two different sound signatures. I usually swap around depending to what type of music I am listening at or what type of mood I am in.


----------



## BillsonChang007

roamling said:


> I have a Sunrise III from Garage 1217 and thats what is use with the micro iDSD!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing! 

Jeremy at Garage1217 was very kind and suggested me 5 tubes to try with their amp.


----------



## Turrican2

billsonchang007 said:


> Not sure if am I doing it right... But I have no pop sound with FB2k ever since I start using MP3 to DSD at Day 1.


 
 have you configured FB2K to use ASIO or DoP?.  ASIO has always been fine,it was really DoP which was the issue, the new FW has really helped a lot.
  
 Big thanks to iFi for a fix to something they didn't cause


----------



## BillsonChang007

Running ASIO here since I manage to get that working first haha


----------



## Turrican2

billsonchang007 said:


> Running ASIO here since I manage to get that working first haha


 
 you must be wondering what all the fuss is about


----------



## BillsonChang007

turrican2 said:


> you must be wondering what all the fuss is about





turrican2 said:


> you must be wondering what all the fuss is about




Indeed yes I am xD 

If only when going in DSD mode, it can switch automatically back to normal since I have a few 192/24 and 92/24 files in my library but that's FB2K's problem


----------



## roamling

roamling said:


> I will do the update later this evening, I wonder if this fix will also work in my Linux environment running Squeezeserver Lite with DSD over DOP option.
> I report back later on that


 
  
 I just did the update and i am very happy to report that even on my Linux based Vortexbox running the Squeezelite Server the pop is gone or reduced to such a low level that i consider this one fixed.
 Now I can reconsider getting more DSD downloads and enjoy them.
 Thanks guys!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Is there a new fur ware for the DSD micro. If so how is this done ?


----------



## tf1216

On page 66 you can find the firmware update instructions.


----------



## john57

alrainbow said:


> Is there a new fur ware for the DSD micro. If so how is this done ?


 
 Details are in post 984 on this thread.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
  
 Must have Windows Driver (v2.20) installed before updating the firmware. The updater is part of the windows driver in the windows program folder


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hello how are you. ?? And thanks for the info. Does it change the sound any ??


----------



## Triodemode

mashi-maro said:


> I have an update.
> 
> I sent back my iDSD Micro  for changing of the board regarding my channel imbalance. The new board POT has a smaller amount of imbalance HOWEVER there is NO MORE PCM HISS in bit-perfect mode. I don't know if the new board has a newer firmware or it's different hardware?
> 
> ...


 

 I have a ticket in to get a definitive answer regarding what Mashi is experiencing above.  Wondering if this is the only person who ISN'T experiencing hiss while pausing PCM files with bit perfect mode selected.  I know iFi has indicated that this is just a side effect of the non-oversampling nature when using this mode. Can others chime in to help get a consensus whether their units also produce hiss in this mode or is Mashi just an isolated incident?


----------



## john57

alrainbow said:


> Hello how are you. ?? And thanks for the info. Does it change the sound any ??


 
 Each time there is a firmware change on any DAC there is a potential of a slight change in sound signature. It seems to me that bit perfect is a bit smoother and the min phase a bit harsher. This was done at low PCM bit rates. Which is a bit of a reversed role. I have not tried it at higher bit rates or DSD which I will try next. I have noticed a small change in the sound depending on which USB streaming mode I am using.
  
 The biggest advantage that the new firmware has for me is the sleep mode going into and out of sleep mode is that the plop noise is far less.  The sleep mode plop noise was much louder than the DoP pop ever was. I was spooking my house guests when I leave the monitors on with no sound for 15 minutes. Not a good impression with the older firmware.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks for the answers. Now I need help. Using a win 8.1. On surface pro 2. I uninstalled old drivers , rebooted . Installed new drivers. Select firmware update. . I cannot find bin file any where or fond the oath it tells me to find. It says go to c, users and audio . There is no audio off of dir users. Any user for that matter. Apparently it's not creating the dir for me. Am I missing something here .
?? Help,lost 
Al


----------



## john57

I can see what IFI did with the sleep mode. After 15 minutes with no signal on USB power the iDSD micro goes to no signal status(flashing green) and then two seconds later sleep mode(no LED) instead of directly going into sleep mode.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok I fouund the problem. The link sent from website did not have the link for firmware. . I reloaded the how too and it was there .,it's done. Thanks 
Al


----------



## rickyleelee

triodemode said:


> I have a ticket in to get a definitive answer regarding what Mashi is experiencing above.  Wondering if this is the only person who ISN'T experiencing hiss while pausing PCM files with bit perfect mode selected.  I know iFi has indicated that this is just a side effect of the non-oversampling nature when using this mode. Can others chime in to help get a consensus whether their units also produce hiss in this mode or is Mashi just an isolated incident?


 
I don't get a noticeable jump in hiss on my iDSD Micro unit. I use Senn Momemtums, Beats (sorry) and home speaker setup. Like others have said, it depends upon system matching whether or not it is exaggerated. Read the earlier thread and you will see this. Suggest you ask them to look at the your unit for you and see if they can do anything about it. Their service is pretty good.


----------



## Triodemode

rickyleelee said:


> I don't get a noticeable jump in hiss on my iDSD Micro unit. I use Senn Momemtums, Beats (sorry) and home speaker setup. Like others have said, it depends upon system matching whether or not it is exaggerated. Read the earlier thread and you will see this. Suggest you ask them to look at the your unit for you and see if they can do anything about it. Their service is pretty good.


 

 I just got a reply from John at iFi who suggested to send the unit back to Avatar Acoustics to be looked at and am waiting for them to respond via email with an answer.  The hiss is more pronounced with my Beyerdynamic DT990 headphones than on my Harbeth P3ESR speakers, and as I said is only noticeable when music is silent or between tracks.


----------



## rickyleelee

triodemode said:


> I just got a reply from John at iFi who suggested to send the unit back to Avatar Acoustics to be looked at and am waiting for them to respond via email with an answer.  The hiss is more pronounced with my Beyerdynamic DT990 headphones than on my Harbeth P3ESR speakers, and as I said is only noticeable when music is silent or between tracks.


 
I thought the issue you said earlier looks quite serious against to "only noticeable when music is silent or between tracks"? Anyways, I don't have this issue - read the earlier threads about different people and their setups. Hope they can do something for you. May be they can, may be they can't. Otherwise you may send it back asking for a refund if you are unhappy about the in-between tracks thing


----------



## Triodemode

rickyleelee said:


> I thought the issue you said earlier looks quite serious against to "only noticeable when music is silent or between tracks"? Anyways, I don't have this issue - read the earlier threads about different people and their setups. Hope they can do something for you. May be they can, may be they can't. Otherwise you may send it back asking for a refund if you are unhappy about the in-between tracks thing


 

 Never said serious...  The only reason this it being brought up, is due to Mashi-Maro stating that hiss completely disappeared in bit perfect mode on his unit following a board replacement to reduce a channel imbalance issue with the potentiometer. 
  
 I am completely happy with my iDSD micro however, if there has been a running change to improve it's signal to noise ratio specification in this mode; I would definitely be interested in having it installed in my device.


----------



## Triodemode

triodemode said:


> Never said serious...  The only reason this it being brought up, is due to Mashi-Maro stating that hiss completely disappeared in bit perfect mode on his unit following a board replacement to reduce a channel imbalance issue with the potentiometer.
> 
> I am completely happy with my iDSD micro however, if there has been a running change to improve it's signal to noise ratio specification in this mode; I would definitely be interested in having it installed in my device.


----------



## Memorexx168

Which filter are you guys using? I bought the micro a week ago and it's just wow. However I canot hear a real difference between the different filters though. I'm using the micro with my sennheiser hd 700.


----------



## Triodemode

memorexx168 said:


> Which filter are you guys using? I bought the micro a week ago and it's just wow. However I canot hear a real difference between the different filters though. I'm using the micro with my sennheiser hd 700.


 

 Very subtle difference between the three settings to my ears, with standard sounding the most digital and bit perfect sounding more like analog (iFi also recommends this setting).  Very impressed with iFi for giving these PCM/DSD conversion options to it's customers.


----------



## Memorexx168

triodemode said:


> Very subtle difference between the three settings to my ears, with standard sounding the most digital and bit perfect sounding more like analog (iFi also recommends this setting).  Very impressed with iFi for giving these PCM/DSD conversion options to it's customers.




So which filter would you recommend?
I'm pretty new to the hifi segment. Currently I'm listening to my rig at work with spotify premium. 

Don't know anything bout bit perfect and so on...


----------



## john57

I find a web site that test your ability for absolute phase. This is NOT the same as Stereo Polarity when one of the channels is out of phase. This is the same effect of switching the Polarity switch on the micro. It has been said the the human ear is insensitive to absolute phase. I was wondering how many people get a good score on this. 
  
   http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php


----------



## semeniub

memorexx168 said:


> Torrent format huh?
> 
> Anyother good sites and music i can try?
> I only found a lot of classic music in high res. I don't mind hearing classic music though..but thats just not my really preferred music. However I hear it from time to time.
> ...


 

 I realize that torrents can make people uncomfortable, but some of the recordings are really good on that site to try out.
  
 Otherwise, you can get some paid-for hires music from many sites to try out. More selection becomes available every day to satisfy many music tastes.


----------



## Rafu64

I have a question regarding the use of IFi Micro with a computer. Does the iFi Micro "bypass" the onboard soundcard when playing DSD-files or do I need a special soundcard which is capable of playing dsd-files?
 I have read a lot of reviews but I am not quite sure how the iFi Micro works together with a computer.


----------



## ClieOS

rafu64 said:


> I have a question regarding the use of IFi Micro with a computer. Does the iFi Micro "bypass" the onboard soundcard when playing DSD-files or do I need a special soundcard which is capable of playing dsd-files?
> I have read a lot of reviews but I am not quite sure how the iFi Micro works together with a computer.


 
  
 Of course it will bypass the onboard sound card. Won't be much good if it doesn't.
  
 You do however need to setup the playback software in order to have native decoding, mainly just ASIO stuff.
  
 Though we call it USB DAC, technically it is still an external soundcard as far as PC is concerned. So basically micro iDSD is already a 'special' soundcard.


----------



## Triodemode

memorexx168 said:


> So which filter would you recommend?
> I'm pretty new to the hifi segment. Currently I'm listening to my rig at work with spotify premium.
> 
> Don't know anything bout bit perfect and so on...


 

 I prefer bit perfect mode as there is no processing of the original file before being converted,  Below is an excellent article to better explain.
  
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-3-how-bit-perfect-software-can-affect-sound


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> I prefer bit perfect mode as there is no processing of the original file before being converted,  Below is an excellent article to better explain.
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-3-how-bit-perfect-software-can-affect-sound


 
  
 I think you might have misunderstood what 'bit perfect' filter means in micro DSD - it means 'non-oversampling' (NOS) actually, which isn't the same as what that article is talking.


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> *3 Steps: Micro iDSD "DoP pop" fix via Firmware upgrade* With native DSD playback, on some audio software playback programs, the "pop" issue is dealt with/not dealt with. This is an upstream characteristics of native, DSD playback and varies from system to system.


 
  
 Upgraded my Micro iDSD, and now the nasty "pop" issue with DSD is gone!
 Now playing my DSD collections is a very enjoyable experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Big Thanks to @iFi audio !


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> I think you might have misunderstood what 'bit perfect' filter means in micro DSD - it means 'non-oversampling' (NOS) actually, which isn't the same as what that article is talking.


 
  
 Did you experience volume change when playing DSD, and switch the Filter switch from Bit-Perfect to Minimum Phase, then to Standard?
 I hear volume is increasing, like around 2-3 dB when switching from Bit-Perfect to Minimum Phase. And around 1-2 dB increase when switching from Minimum Phase to Standard.
 Is it normal?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## john57

When you change the filters for DSD you are changing the analog filters, a different set from the digital filters for PCM. The term Bit-Perfect, Minimum Phase and Standard does not apply to DSD.


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> I think you might have misunderstood what 'bit perfect' filter means in micro DSD - it means 'non-oversampling' (NOS) actually, which isn't the same as what that article is talking.


 

 My understanding was the article linked was speaking about bit perfect relationships between software and hardware. I thought all three modes on the micro iDSD were just different filters without any oversampling.   Is this correct?


----------



## ClieOS

earfonia said:


> Did you experience volume change when playing DSD, and switch the Filter switch from Bit-Perfect to Minimum Phase, then to Standard?
> I hear volume is increasing, like around 2-3 dB when switching from Bit-Perfect to Minimum Phase. And around 1-2 dB increase when switching from Minimum Phase to Standard.
> Is it normal?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 In DSD playback, the filter selection is referred as Extreme / Extended / Standard Range (analogue) filters instead of Bit Perfect / Minimum Phase / STD. I don't actually play with DSD much so I haven't really noticed anything.
    
 Quote:


triodemode said:


> My understanding was the article linked was speaking about bit perfect relationships between software and hardware. I thought all three modes on the micro iDSD were just different filters without any oversampling.   Is this correct?


 
  
 Standard and minimum phase filter are oversampling (depends on your software / OS setting), Bit perfect is NOS. It is not exactly a filter as NOS doesn't have any filter.


----------



## maricius

Very handsome pairing in the DX90 + CL Duet and great sound too… too bad this set-up sounds better… I'll give the DX90 + Duet rig another chance tomorrow


----------



## earfonia

john57 said:


> When you change the filters for DSD you are changing the analog filters, a different set from the digital filters for PCM. The term Bit-Perfect, Minimum Phase and Standard does not apply to DSD.


 
  
 Right, so the extra gain should be from the analog filters. Tx!
  
  


clieos said:


> In DSD playback, the filter selection is referred as Extreme / Extended / Standard Range (analogue) filters instead of Bit Perfect / Minimum Phase / STD. I don't actually play with DSD much so I haven't really noticed anything.


 
  
 Noted thanks!


----------



## Krutsch

clieos said:


> Standard and minimum phase filter are oversampling (*depends on your software / OS setting*), Bit perfect is NOS. It is not exactly a filter as NOS doesn't have any filter.


 
  
 Wait, what?  Do you mean "in general" or as implemented in the iDSD Micro?  If it's the latter, the filters are implemented entirely within the device, are they not?


----------



## ClieOS

krutsch said:


> Wait, what?  Do you mean "in general" or as implemented in the iDSD Micro?  If it's the latter, the filters are implemented entirely within the device, are they not?


 
  
 Well, if you set the Windows to output 16/44.1 by default then obviously there won't be any oversampling. The filters are capable of oversampling, but you have to tell it to oversampling in the first place. Or else it would have to upsample everything, which isn't the case here.


----------



## iFi audio

*A big welcome!*  
 Dear All,

  
 It took us longer than expected but we are almost there.

  
http://ifi-audio.com/iclub_blog/iclub-a-big-welcome/

  
 If you have not, then please hurry and register your Octa-unit here as we have made contact with 95% of the 512 customers and other customers as nominated by our senior staff (they are allocated a certain amount of nominations per quarter).

  
 We would like to introduce our "fantastic five" concierges - Karina, Linda, Owen, Laura and Kate. between them, they look after retail network which spans North America, Europe and Asia.

  
 See you at the iClub!

  
 Yours sincerely,

  
 iFi staff and directors.

  

  
ps: a very nice gift is coming in the next few days...


----------



## Krutsch

clieos said:


> Well, if you set the Windows to output 16/44.1 by default then obviously there won't be any oversampling. The filters are capable of oversampling, but you have to tell it to oversampling in the first place. Or else it would have to upsample everything, which isn't the case here.


 

 The filters selected with the button on the side of the iDSD Micro should control the application of "standard" (linear?) or "minimum" digital filters *entirely* within the iDSD Micro; oversampling occurs within the DAC using the selected filter (or none of this, if "bit perfect" is selected).  Whatever settings you apply on your Windows or Mac are irrelevant, unless you are already up-sampling to the limits of the device (PCM 768?), for example using your playback software's upsampling function (e.g. Audirvana's use of iZotope).


----------



## ClieOS

krutsch said:


> The filters selected with the button on the side of the iDSD Micro should control the application of "standard" (linear?) or "minimum" digital filters *entirely* within the iDSD Micro; oversampling occurs within the DAC using the selected filter (or none of this, if "bit perfect" is selected).  Whatever settings you apply on your Windows or Mac are irrelevant, unless you are already up-sampling to the limits of the device (PCM 768?), for example using your playback software's upsampling function (e.g. Audirvana's use of iZotope).


 
  
 I know what you are talking about, but we are not actually talking about the same thing so it is kind of pointless here. Just want to add that Bit Perfect is NOS, and by definition, NOS doesn't have a filter. That's all.


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> *A big welcome!*
> Dear All,
> 
> 
> ...




  
 Registration of the Octa-unit is through the normal product registration page right?
 After that then just wait for invitation right?
  
 Is there any indication of the unit number from the serial number?
 My Micro iDSD serial number is microD20711
 Tx!


----------



## iFi audio

earfonia said:


> Registration of the Octa-unit is through the normal product registration page right?
> After that then just wait for invitation right?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 This was for the Octa-Adopter unit owners. So the serial numbers with microD1xxxx. There were 512 of them around the globe.
  
 There will be another membership opening in the not too distant future to invite new members.
  
 The membership openings come around periodically.
  
 The other option is that senior staff are allocated a certain number of nominations each quarter.
  
 Hope this sheds more light.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## asintado08

maricius said:


> Very handsome pairing in the DX90 + CL Duet and great sound too… too bad this set-up sounds better… I'll give the DX90 + Duet rig another chance tomorrow


 
 Do you have a high impedance HPs? I am considering a DX90/Duet, a iDSD micro or a Theorem 720. I will use it with a HD 650.


----------



## maricius

asintado08 said:


> Do you have a high impedance HPs? I am considering a DX90/Duet, a iDSD micro or a Theorem 720. I will use it with a HD 650.




The find the iDSD micro to be better than the other two combos in technicalities but I'm unsure of synergy with the HD650. In terms of power, Micro iDSD > Duet > Theorem.


----------



## Triodemode

maricius said:


> The find the iDSD micro to be better than the other two combos in technicalities but I'm unsure of synergy with the HD650. In terms of power, Micro iDSD > Duet > Theorem.


 

 I have yet to see another 'portable' headphone amp with the drive capability and versatility of a micro iDSD.  My HD650 plays beautifully using the micro iDSD in ECO mode.  The 650 can be a bit dark sounding on some source material, and I find using the 3D option gives a nice subtle high frequency boost with these files.


----------



## Memorexx168

Does anyone uses the ifi with an iPhone? I listened to spotify for like an hour. Suddenly my iPhone is down to 50% battery

What?!?!

Does the iPhone charge the ifi? Maybe it drains all the power and transfers it to the ifi....
Any advice?


----------



## pekingduck

How does the amp section fare against TOTL portable amps such as the Vorzuge Pure II, Portaphile 627 etc (in terms of SQ not power) ?


----------



## iFi audio

memorexx168 said:


> Does anyone uses the ifi with an iPhone? I listened to spotify for like an hour. Suddenly my iPhone is down to 50% battery
> 
> What?!?!
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Please confirm:
  
 1) Switched on iDSD "before" connection. So that it runs from the battery and not from USB (otherwise it will drain your iPhone battery like there is no tomorrow).
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Memorexx168

Oh. Ok. Sucks. 
So I can't just leave them two connected in my bag?
I have to disconnect every time I don t want to listen anymore and connect if I want to listen? 
That's kinda....lame....

Well I guess I have to live with that. Didn't know that you can drain power via the cck. 
Thanks for the quick reply. So basically I could charge my ifi with my iPhone. Haha


----------



## BillsonChang007

Basically, if you want the device to use its own built in battery instead of your smartphone's battery, switch on the micro iDSD before connecting it


----------



## Memorexx168

billsonchang007 said:


> Basically, if you want the device to use its own built in battery instead of your smartphone's battery, switch on the micro iDSD before connecting it




Yea will do it from now on. But disconnecting it every time I'm not listening to it anymore is kinda well. Not. User friendly. 
Don't you think? 

But other than that the idsd is amazeballs


----------



## maricius

pekingduck said:


> How does the amp section fare against TOTL portable amps such as the Vorzuge Pure II, Portaphile 627 etc (in terms of SQ not power) ?




The amp section of the iDSD is very transparent, forward, detailed, textured, but lean and due to the forward nature, sometimes bright. It isn't the most spacious amplifier. My Duet is more spacious and laidback. I'd say imaging is better but that would only because of more room. The iDSD amp section for me is very textured with an etched quality. It could be said to be grainy but it's smooth when the recording is smooth. The magic really is in the synergy with the iDSD's extremy musical and spacious DAC section.

I wouldn't buy the iDSD for the amp section alone unless I happened need to need a lean and clear sounding amplifier to compliment an overly covered headphone.


----------



## technobear

memorexx168 said:


> billsonchang007 said:
> 
> 
> > Basically, if you want the device to use its own built in battery instead of your smartphone's battery, switch on the micro iDSD before connecting it
> ...




You only need to disconnect it when you want to charge it. Otherwise just leave it connected and leave it turned on. It goes to sleep when no music has played for a few minutes so the battery is conserved. There is no need to keep switching off or disconnecting.


----------



## Memorexx168

technobear said:


> You only need to disconnect it when you want to charge it. Otherwise just leave it connected and leave it turned on. It goes to sleep when no music has played for a few minutes so the battery is conserved. There is no need to keep switching off or disconnecting.


 
 oy....ok.
 Will do that from now on.
 Thanks!!!


----------



## rickyleelee

earfonia said:


> Registration of the Octa-unit is through the normal product registration page right?
> After that then just wait for invitation right?
> 
> Is there any indication of the unit number from the serial number?
> ...


 
  
I hope you get in buddy - I have been chatting to Laura probably because I'm out in Asia. It seems the whole concierge panel are really nice people as I have also dealt with Owen.


----------



## semeniub

I've been listening to the micro iDSD feeding a micro iCAN lately and that has been really good. I then switched over to using the micro iDSD to feed a tube amp with NOS Mullards tubes.
  
 Wow!
  
 If you have the micro IDSD, you owe it to yourself to try it connected to a really good headamp. The versatility of this thing continues to impress, so the buzz definitely hasn't worm off after 1 month+ of ownership.


----------



## Wfojas

semeniub said:


> I've been listening to the micro iDSD feeding a micro iCAN lately and that has been really good. I then switched over to using the micro iDSD to feed a tube amp with NOS Mullards tubes.
> 
> Wow!
> 
> If you have the micro IDSD, you owe it to yourself to try it connected to a really good headamp. The versatility of this thing continues to impress, so the buzz definitely hasn't worm off after 1 month+ of ownership.


 
 Good to hear that it responds to a better amp. Must try to get around to hearing them with tubes.
  
 I used my iDSD feeding a Brsyston BHA-1 to Senn HD800, and find that the synergy between the Dac portion of the iDSD works really well with the Amp portion of it. It may just be that the dryness of the BHA-1 doesnt't work with the iDSD. The BHA-1 is even worst with the GeekOut 720, which is pretty good on its own, as well.
  
 And with Jazz piano tiro music (Bill Evans Trio - You Must Remember Spring) the iDSD combo gets  a little tizzy on the upper registers, but works really well on its own (iDSD Dac/Amp). 
 I wonder what the ideal headphone for rock music would be for the iDSD, though, as the LCD-X i used with it gets a little too slow *(Yes - SACD rip of Roundabout'). It may just be too revealing of the music, which was pretty saturated to begin with.


----------



## KmanChu

semeniub said:


> I've been listening to the micro iDSD feeding a micro iCAN lately and that has been really good. I then switched over to using the micro iDSD to feed a tube amp with NOS Mullards tubes.
> 
> Wow!
> 
> If you have the micro IDSD, you owe it to yourself to try it connected to a really good headamp. The versatility of this thing continues to impress, so the buzz definitely hasn't worm off after 1 month+ of ownership.


 

 I agree it scales well. I'm using hybrid tube amp, and I am actually using late 50s Amprex and Mullards. The DAC of the micro iDSD is definitely stronger than the amp section, and it scales very well. It doesn't have the dimensionality or resolution of some of the more expensive DACs I have used, but it has its own sound and personality. It's very good!


----------



## asintado08

maricius said:


> The find the iDSD micro to be better than the other two combos in technicalities but I'm unsure of synergy with the HD650. In terms of power, Micro iDSD > Duet > Theorem.


 
  


triodemode said:


> I have yet to see another 'portable' headphone amp with the drive capability and versatility of a micro iDSD.  My HD650 plays beautifully using the micro iDSD in ECO mode.  The 650 can be a bit dark sounding on some source material, and I find using the 3D option gives a nice subtle high frequency boost with these files.


 
 Thanks for this information.


----------



## estreeter

I like my iDSD nano and briefly contemplated getting the iRack+iTube to complete an end-to-end iFi rig but sadly my Marantz dealer got hold of me with his $$%@! '_promo price __is only for this month !'_ spiel - I know it's BS but it's my own stupid fault for walking through those doors with money in my pocket. Great gear for the price.


----------



## semeniub

kmanchu said:


> I agree it scales well. I'm using hybrid tube amp, and I am actually using late 50s Amprex and Mullards. The DAC of the micro iDSD is definitely stronger than the amp section, and it scales very well. It doesn't have the dimensionality or resolution of some of the more expensive DACs I have used, but it has its own sound and personality. It's very good!


 

 And since the cost of it doesn't break the bank, I find that I'm more inclined to adjust the sound in my setups and not worry about it - like rolling tubes, swapping around cables, playing with USB solutions, DSD upsampling in the computer, etc. Perfect for the "tweaker" mentality.


----------



## earfonia

rickyleelee said:


> I hope you get in buddy - I have been chatting to Laura probably because I'm out in Asia. It seems the whole concierge panel are really nice people as I have also dealt with Owen.


 
  
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


semeniub said:


> I've been listening to the micro iDSD feeding a micro iCAN lately and that has been really good. I then switched over to using the micro iDSD to feed a tube amp with NOS Mullards tubes.
> 
> Wow!
> 
> If you have the micro IDSD, you owe it to yourself to try it connected to a really good headamp. The versatility of this thing continues to impress, so the buzz definitely hasn't worm off after 1 month+ of ownership.


 
  
 Micro iCAN is already in my shopping list


----------



## semeniub

earfonia said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You'll enjoy the pairing - I have the micro iDSD paired with the iCAN using some Elijah Audio interconnects and really like the tone of this setup.


----------



## Memorexx168

semeniub said:


> You'll enjoy the pairing - I have the micro iDSD paired with the iCAN using some Elijah Audio interconnects and really like the tone of this setup.




Oh. I thought the idsd is all micro devices combined. So the amp section if the idsd is not as good as the ican?


----------



## semeniub

memorexx168 said:


> Oh. I thought the idsd is all micro devices combined. So the amp section if the idsd is not as good as the ican?


 

 I'm not an expert on these things, I just listen and enjoy. What I do know is that the iCAN is a dedicated Class A desktop headamp, while the micro iDSD is a DAC and a pretty darn good portable/desktop headamp that drives almost anything.
  
 Most are served just fine by the micro iDSD, while those seeking the apex can benefit from adding the iCAN or some other higher-end headamp. You can find a few posts in the thread where others have described their experience with adding the iCAN.
  
 As I mentioned, the micro scales really well as a purchase, and I'm not afraid to partner it with higher level amps. Follows the philosophy of putting big $$$ into established tech like amplifiers, while the entire price/performance aspects of DAC's is changing so quickly right now towards affordability.


----------



## RadioWonder737

Great Giveaway... Click link to enter... http://goo.gl/GyzyeY​ [size=small] [/size]HM-700 (16GB) Portable Player and RE-400B IEM combo...​ Plug into your iFi Micro iDSD for more fun ...​


----------



## KmanChu

estreeter said:


> I like my iDSD nano and briefly contemplated getting the iRack+iTube to complete an end-to-end iFi rig but sadly my Marantz dealer got hold of me with his $$%@! '_promo price __is only for this month !'_ spiel - I know it's BS but it's my own stupid fault for walking through those doors with money in my pocket. Great gear for the price.


 
  
 Was it about their new HD-DAC1?


----------



## estreeter

kmanchu said:


> Was it about their new HD-DAC1?


 
  
 No


----------



## Reignfire

Hi 
  
 For my initial charging, while the unit is off I used the blue USB cable (then digital input) and attached it to my HTC One M8 charger (for faster charging) for 5 hours. When i woke up (after 5 hours), the LED is no longer blue (it is completely off/no color). Should i continue charging it until it reaches 24 hours or i can use it already?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## BillsonChang007

If you have just take it out outta the box, yes, charge it till it reaches 24 hours mark


----------



## iFi audio

billsonchang007 said:


> If you have just take it out outta the box, yes, charge it till it reaches 24 hours mark


 

 Or when the blue light goes off - in case you are using high-power charger such as Orico.


----------



## iFi audio

Marvellous pianist Josei-san’s Quad-DSD256 recording – major download alert!  
 Just a heads-up for anyone looking for a new Quad DSD-256 recording:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/marvellous-pianist-josei-sans-quad-dsd256-recording-major-download-alert/
  
 A piano concerto/noctures type of album.
  
 Extremely listenable.
  
 Follow the link and you can hear samples before you buy.
  
 We sponsored Josei-san - so he uses the micro iDSD for listening on the go.
  

  
 Hope you found this link useful.


----------



## jexby

ok, last night spent 1 hour moving the RCA (output) cable between 
iFi micro iDSD and Concero HD.
feeding the Lyr 2 (Telefunken tubes) and HE-560.
mainly focused on Audirvana+ delivering 24/96 FLAC and not dsd files, etc.
 
it was a CLOSE compare and really, can honestly say virtually a dead heat.
no one would really complain much with one of these DACs and not the other.
perhaps only golden ear experts with both DACs in hand would be able to tell them apart consistently?
 
but a couple deltas did appear, which may match with what/how experts reviewed the Concero HD.
 
1.  Concero HD puts you 1 step closer to that exact front of the stage.
this makes soundstage appear a bit wider, and also separate instruments a tad more. barely.
For example, in busier rock songs it was a bit easier to pick out bass guitar strings when having more strength.
 
is that good?  normally for me, yes- love width and detail to instruments.
but in this case maybe the music didn't flow together as smooth overall *in complex parts*.
make no mistake, the iFi micro iDSD DAC delivered tons of detail and separation, but also seemed to meld the fields of the song a bit better.  more cohesive, glued.
 
2.  Concero HD can appear "hyper exact" detailed, especially in higher treble of guitar strings to me.
but I'm not sure that sounds like reality?
HD portrayed such treble strings a bit with more "ping" or tinge to the pluck.
micro iDSD took a bit away from the ping and you could hear the string vibration element of the tone more.  barely.
 
Summary:
ignoring the tube rolling element of the Lyr 2, if one owned:
fast, detailed, accurate headphones (HE-560 or HD800) I think the iFi micro iDSD DAC section would lend a bit more of the "cohesive musical" feel to the source
vs.
with a slower or warmer headphone (HD600 or HD650?) the additional separation, and slightly higher treble sparkle of the Concero HD might be a welcome addition.
 
 both stellar products in terms of engineering delivering audible excellence!


----------



## jhwalker

ifi audio said:


> Marvellous pianist Josei-san’s Quad-DSD256 recording – major download alert!
> Just a heads-up for anyone looking for a new Quad DSD-256 recording:
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/marvellous-pianist-josei-sans-quad-dsd256-recording-major-download-alert/
> ...





 For those of us who don't read Japanese  is there another site in English where we can purchase this music?


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> Marvellous pianist Josei-san’s Quad-DSD256 recording – major download alert!
> Just a heads-up for anyone looking for a new Quad DSD-256 recording:
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/marvellous-pianist-josei-sans-quad-dsd256-recording-major-download-alert/
> ...




  
 Listening the samples of the album, truly an excellent quality piano recording!
 I wish there is information of what gears they used, and how they position the microphones.  Looks like spaced A-B microphone setup, with really good quality microphones. The YouTube video is too dark to reveal more info.
 Anyway, excellent quality recordings!


----------



## RadioWonder737

jhwalker said:


> For those of us who don't read Japanese  is there another site in English where we can purchase this music?


 
 Just use Google Translate to see the webpage in English... Just Right Click on the page and choose Translate to English...  (3,500 Yen)$31.88 for 11.2 MHz dsd + MP3...  
  
http://ototoy.jp/feature/20141001/DSD+11.2MHz%E8%A7%A3%E7%A6%81%21%21+SOIL%E3%81%AE%E3%83%94%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E4%B8%88%E9%9D%92%E3%81%AE%E3%82%BD%E3%83%AD%E4%BD%9C%E3%82%92%E2%80%9C%E6%9C%80%E9%AB%98%E9%9F%B3%E8%B3%AA%E2%80%9D%E3%81%A7
  
 This Japanese record company also has a Free Download of Samples from other artists...
http://ototoy.jp/feature/index.php/type/freedl


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone here owns both clas theorem 720 and the idsd micro?  Which has better DAC section?


----------



## Sam L

Quick, people tell me how awesome this thing is to remind me that I should keep mine.
  
 I was really wanting something to throw in my laptop bag, so the nano was my intended purchase but when my local retailer ran out a while ago, I gave up waiting and picked up the micro idsd.  I am very, very pleased with the SQ but its quite a bit bigger than I wanted for my laptop.
  
 I don't have much experience with portable dac/amps beyond the fiio line.  Maybe a couple testimonials like "this is one of the best portable dacs I've heard in a long time under _________"    =)


----------



## maricius

sam l said:


> Quick, people tell me how awesome this thing is to remind me that I should keep mine.
> 
> I was really wanting something to throw in my laptop bag, so the nano was my intended purchase but when my local retailer ran out a while ago, I gave up waiting and picked up the micro idsd.  I am very, very pleased with the SQ but its quite a bit bigger than I wanted for my laptop.
> 
> I don't have much experience with portable dac/amps beyond the fiio line.  Maybe a couple testimonials like "this is one of the best portable dacs I've heard in a long time under _________"    =)


 

 HAHAHAHAHA quite frankly I haven't heard a better portable DAC. I have yet to try the Hugo. If it had a better amp section enough to be comparable to other TOTL portable amps, it would have been even more perfect.


----------



## BillsonChang007

sam l said:


> Quick, people tell me how awesome this thing is to remind me that I should keep mine.
> 
> I was really wanting something to throw in my laptop bag, so the nano was my intended purchase but when my local retailer ran out a while ago, I gave up waiting and picked up the micro idsd.  I am very, very pleased with the SQ but its quite a bit bigger than I wanted for my laptop.
> 
> I don't have much experience with portable dac/amps beyond the fiio line.  Maybe a couple testimonials like "this is one of the best portable dacs I've heard in a long time under _________"    =)




It's DAC is one of the best for the price. Charges your phone when it's low, powerful to drive anything you may need in the future.


----------



## estreeter

sam l said:


> Quick, people tell me how awesome this thing is to remind me that I should keep mine.
> 
> I was really wanting something to throw in my laptop bag, so the nano was my intended purchase but when my local retailer ran out a while ago, I gave up waiting and picked up the micro idsd.  I am very, very pleased with the SQ but its quite a bit bigger than I wanted for my laptop.
> 
> I don't have much experience with portable dac/amps beyond the fiio line.  Maybe a couple testimonials like "this is one of the best portable dacs I've heard in a long time under _________"    =)


 
  
 I have both the Hugo and the iDSD nano - if portability is your goal you would be much better off with the nano. I used my Hugo at KL International Airport about 5 months ago and it hasnt been out of these four walls since - I'll probably leave it at home in favour of the nano on my upcoming Japan trip.


----------



## maricius

billsonchang007 said:


> It's DAC is one of the best for the price. Charges your phone when it's low, powerful to drive anything you may need in the future.


 

 I think I really have become a fanboy as I seriously can't think of a DAC that can compete at its price range. As a DAC/amp, there are competitors but that would be most due to better synergy with the competition.


----------



## iFi audio

earfonia said:


> Listening the samples of the album, truly an excellent quality piano recording!
> I wish there is information of what gears they used, and how they position the microphones.  Looks like spaced A-B microphone setup, with really good quality microphones. The YouTube video is too dark to reveal more info.
> Anyway, excellent quality recordings!


 

 Hi
  
 Just to answer your question:
 https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio?fref=ts

  
 For the techies - this is a pure DSD recording. Which is very unusual.
 This recording took a very simple path: start and finish by Pyramix. No other system. Okuda-san wanted to hold the state DSD native. Editing and compression was also avoided. Mixing was in the analog mixer, he was preserved the native DSD path - analogue send and return.
  
 This was the information gleaned from the recording team in Japan.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## technobear

I'm trying to build a little transportable system around my micro iDSD, one that can be used on and off grid and incorporate the micro iCAN when on grid. To this end I have bought an Acer Aspire V11 laptop. It's the Pentium version with touchscreen and 7 hour battery. It actually plays for more than 10 hours with the display off. Anyway, for testing purposes I included the iUSB Power since I have one but I encountered an annoyance. When grid power is removed from the iUSB Power, the micro iDSD stops playing. Even if the micro iDSD is restarted in battery mode, it won't play. Clearly it needs to see 5 Volts on the USB input or it goes to sleep. So to go off grid, I have to unplug the blue USB cable from the iUSB Power and stick it in the laptop instead. This is a chore I could do without and has implications for the design of my transportable unit so today I decided to have a long listening session to see if the iUSB Power really makes a difference.

I used the following tracks that I can remember, maybe one or two more:

Eva Cassidy - "Stormy Monday" from _Live At Blues Alley_

Fleetwood Mac - "Songbird" from _Rumours_

Joe Bonamassa - "Sloe Gin" from _Live From Nowhere in Particular_

Leftfield - "Melt" from _Leftism_

Nils Lofgren - "Daddy Dream" from _Wonderland_

Orbital - "Pants" from _Blue Album_

Porcupine Tree - "Lightbulb Sun" from _Lightbulb Sun_

Sinead O-Connor - "I Am Stretched On Your Grave" from _I Do No Want What I Haven't Got_

Plenty of deep and articulate bass, tinkly treble, emotional vocals, air and space and decay and inky black backgrounds so if there were anything at all to be heard, I should hear it. I tried each track many times back and forth. I did not manage to identify one single difference and I tried very hard.

I have to admit to being slightly surprised. Either the laptop has very quiet USB power or the micro iDSD is very supply agnostic. I also tried several times switching on the laptop power supply but this made no audible difference either so it looks like this rig will sound as good on grid as it does off grid.

The iUSB Power has been moved to my speaker system where it is now defending an Arcam rPAC from my Acer desktop machine and improving bass performance into the bargain. It's a bit of a waste though really as I rarely use the speaker system and never for serious listening. Anyone want an iUSB Power?


----------



## iFi audio

AMR/iFI @ Rocky Mountain Audio Fest – don’t you wish your Skunkworks was hot like ours? We have the brand new Retro line which includes the Stereo 50 and the LS3.5 Both are ground-up designs from the Oct-DSD512 onboard DAC to the EL84 all tube amplifier. Even the drivers in the LS3.5 are brand new and design by/for iFi!
  


  


  

 More details in the coming weeks and the global launch might have a sprinkle of Factor X.
  
 Here is it in action in the Netherlands week at a new iFi store opening.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/look-mom-no-wires-mobile-nas/
  

  
 Our parent company, AMR is not to be missed and the DP-777 Special Edition will be showcased at RMAF.
  


  
  

  
  
  
  
 A little more detail here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/amrifi-rocky-mountain-audio-fest-dont-you-wish-your-skunkworks-was-hot-like-ours/

  
 Jude did a little preview here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/731471/2014-canjam-rmaf-october-10-12-2014-the-canjam-exhibitor-list-has-been-finalized-and-what-a-lineup/195#post_10935857
 Fast-forward to 37.50!
  
 See you at RMAF.


----------



## tf1216

Rockin' looks. Is there a story to share how the product was conceptualized?


----------



## estreeter

Just dont read the reviews on that Seagate Wireless NAS, esp the one-star gem from a (trainee) sock puppet who clearly doesnt understand Amazon's rating system. They've been given the text to copy and paste into reviews but apparently little else in the way of guidance. It would be hilarious if it wasnt so tragic.


----------



## iFi audio

estreeter said:


> Just dont read the reviews on that Seagate Wireless NAS, esp the one-star gem from a (trainee) sock puppet who clearly doesnt understand Amazon's rating system. They've been given the text to copy and paste into reviews but apparently little else in the way of guidance. It would be hilarious if it wasnt so tragic.


 

 Hi,
  
 We have purchased several units of the Seagate Wireless Plus - we have brought the firmware up-to-date.
  
 If you are at RMAF, you'll see it in action. If not, we will still however, be informing you all.
  
 It certainly a very interesting product as it offers the chance to take 2TB on the move with an iPhone/iPad/Android.
  
 It has certainly piqued our interest


----------



## iFi audio

tf1216 said:


> Rockin' looks. Is there a story to share how the product was conceptualized?


 

 Hi,
  
 Will put a little background behind these in the coming few weeks.
  
 Sure wont make for a tedious read!


----------



## jhwalker

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have purchased several units of the Seagate Wireless Plus - we have brought the firmware up-to-date.
> 
> ...


 

 Would love to hear how you're using these - what iOS app are you using to play the streamed music, for example?  From reading the instructions, it seems you could only use the Seagate software on your iPad / iPhone, etc., but is that really the case?  I'd think you'd want to stream your files at full resolution, but does the Seagate software support that, or are there other ways to use the device?
  
 I'd love to have 2TB to take with me on business trips - would just about store all my music


----------



## semeniub

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have purchased several units of the Seagate Wireless Plus - we have brought the firmware up-to-date.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, please tell us everything. I have this device (kids use it to stream movies to iPad's), but would love to hear if you can use it to stream hires and DSD audio with an iPhone/iPad.


----------



## Turrican2

I use one of these, simply because I already own a 2tb drive

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00IOEMSQ8/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_9B3mub04C7TTN

Works very well with idevice,android or laptop


----------



## BillsonChang007

Have iFi thought of making a DAP? I believe iFi will do a great job in it


----------



## maricius

billsonchang007 said:


> Have iFi thought of making a DAP? I believe iFi will do a great job in it




They'd probably chuck load it with features and make our iDSDs obsolete and probably substantially cheaper


----------



## BillsonChang007

maricius said:


> They'd probably chuck load it with features and make our iDSDs obsolete and probably substantially cheaper




Feature packed, yes. But affecting their sales and/or value of iDSD, don't think so IMO 

My wish list for iFi's DAP:
Touchscreen
24/192 
XBass and 3D
Coax out 
Duo DAC 
$300


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> Just to answer your question:
> https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio?fref=ts
> ...


 
  
 Thank you!


----------



## audioholik

ifi audio said:


> Our parent company, AMR is not to be missed and the DP-777 Special Edition will be showcased at RMAF.
> 
> 
> A little more detail here:
> ...


 
  
 I have a question regarding the AMR DAC, if you don't mind. 
  
 Do you know if AMR has enabled native DSD on the DP-777 SE's WM8741 chip ? I've checked its data sheet, and it talks about native support for single-rate-DSD. I was also wondering whether something more could be squeezed out of this chip (2x or 4x DSD possibly), similarly to what you did with the Burr Brown dac.


----------



## Dixter

Seems I missed the date for the Octa-adopter registration date....
  
 what is the perfered method to register at this time ??


----------



## Dixter

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> This was for the Octa-Adopter unit owners. So the serial numbers with microD1xxxx. There were 512 of them around the globe.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 For some reason it looks like the registration page on the ifi site is down.... as all support pages are too...
  
 whats the best way to register the octa adopter unit I have ??
  
 thanks


----------



## john57

Under the support tap on the IFI web page there is the registration.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/product-registration/


----------



## Dixter

Thanks John...   the site was non responsive earlier in the day...  
  
 got er done...


----------



## rickyleelee

Anyone going to the iClub dinner? We don't have one in Asia yet but looking forward to it. Don't keep the rest of us in suspense. Have high hopes for this crowd design malarkey


----------



## john57

I am planning to go


----------



## jexby

unfortunately I can't attend the iClub evening event, but please do summarize with a posting or two regarding the amazing iFi team!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Where and when ??


----------



## john57

Near the RMAF site this Saturday night


----------



## KmanChu

john57 said:


> Near the RMAF site this Saturday night


 
 Wish I could be there. I'll be drinking a beer with you 1000 miles away!


----------



## estreeter

I wish we had a CanJam in Asia - anywhere from Singapore to HK would suit me. Traffic is just too hideous in Manila and JKT


----------



## RHMMMM

I want owners to chime in here. How sensitive is the IEM match switch on the bottom of your unit? Mine is a little flaky when turned on and if the switch is set to Ultra Sensitivity and I touch or knock the switch gently (normal device handling), it can blast with high volume if I am not careful. Anyone else experiencing this or should I do a warranty exchange?


----------



## rickyleelee

Saturday night! Cool River Cafe!


----------



## osiris1

rhmmmm said:


> I want owners to chime in here. How sensitive is the IEM match switch on the bottom of your unit? Mine is a little flaky when turned on and if the switch is set to Ultra Sensitivity and I touch or knock the switch gently (normal device handling), it can blast with high volume if I am not careful. Anyone else experiencing this or should I do a warranty exchange?


 
 mine does not do that. it's quite firmly notched where it's set. you should contact iFi.


----------



## RHMMMM

Ok, it was like this out of the box. I'll see if I can do a warranty exchange. The other switches are fine. I just figured it was a very sensitive switch but for $500, it shouldn't be like this.


----------



## Wfojas

john57 said:


> Near the RMAF site this Saturday night


 
 Yeah, I wish I could go, too. And to RMAF, but work beckons. Out of curiosity, what is the distribution of the 512 Octo Adaptors?


----------



## roamling

the 3d switch works great for heavy metal live music. Iron Maiden is playing and its a blast! 2 minutes to midnight, blood brothers... enjoy


----------



## maricius

I was recently forced to use my Brainwavz B2 IEMs (rebranded Fischer DBA-02) which I haven't used in months as although I brought my DX90 and iDSD, I forgot to bring any IEMs or headphones… quite careless, I know. It just so happens I had my B2s in Comply tips in my bag, forgotten. 
  
 I hadn't used them for months due to their analytical nature but let's just say that the iDSD has brought these IEMs and even my cheapo SoundMAGIC ES20 to new heights. 
  
 Quite lovely actually.


----------



## RHMMMM

Anybody know how I get in contact with ifi? I have opened tickets on both the concierge special ifi club portal and the main portal. I cant find any contact info other than electronic contact, which is unacceptable to me. Seems like these guys are asleep at the wheel....not happy.


----------



## tf1216

I bet they are focused on rmaf and their iFi Club meeting at the moment. The company has top-notch customer service. Allow them a couple of days then reassess their response time.


----------



## jexby

tf1216 said:


> I bet they are focused on rmaf and their iFi Club meeting at the moment. The company has top-notch customer service. Allow them a couple of days then reassess their response time.


 
  
 not to mention they are jet lagged, time zone whacked and altitude adjusting all at the same time!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Mine wa not like that but a little cheap feeling but it does work fine. My only issue is the volume control if left in my bag walking around it can turn off or turn loud very bad !!!!!! Anyway considreing the many situations these things get used under its acceptible. I have no other issues , there is a ifi guy on this thread have you Reid him as well. 
Al


----------



## john57

Or you can check with the seller that sold your micro. who is that?


----------



## WNBC

So the Micro volume control is rubbing up against other things in your bag or we talking that it is so loose that knob moves with jostling of bag?  
  
 Quote:


alrainbow said:


> Mine wa not like that but a little cheap feeling but it does work fine. My only issue is the volume control if left in my bag walking around it can turn off or turn loud very bad !!!!!! Anyway considreing the many situations these things get used under its acceptible. I have no other issues , there is a ifi guy on this thread have you Reid him as well.
> Al


----------



## BillsonChang007

rhmmmm said:


> Anybody know how I get in contact with ifi? I have opened tickets on both the concierge special ifi club portal and the main portal. I cant find any contact info other than electronic contact, which is unacceptable to me. Seems like these guys are asleep at the wheel....not happy.



Agreed with the test of them. iFi have top notch customer service so they probably are very busy at the moment. 



The Micro iDSD uses volume knob but does not have a 'volume lock' thus when things in the bag rub against it and is strong enough, it will create enough force to turn the volume knob. It is NOT that the volume knob is loose


----------



## Reignfire

has anyone tried pairing iDSD Micro + with iDSD nano? Any feedback? 

 I have a very capable CMOY amp currently paired with DX90 and iDSD Micro, but the amp is too heavy and bulky. Any recommendations?


----------



## BillsonChang007

reignfire said:


> has anyone tried pairing iDSD Micro + with iDSD nano? Any feedback?
> 
> 
> I have a very capable CMOY amp currently paired with DX90 and iDSD Micro, but the amp is too heavy and bulky. Any recommendations?




The Micro iDSD is a complete upgrade from the iDSD Nano so I guess do Micro iDSD + Nano iDSD is a downgrade?


----------



## Reignfire

billsonchang007 said:


> The Micro iDSD is a complete upgrade from the iDSD Nano so I guess do Micro iDSD + Nano iDSD is a downgrade?


 
  
 Thats exactly the same thing that I am thinking earlier, LOL. 

 I'm thinking of pairing it with RxMk3b+ for the longest time....anyone has tried it?


----------



## roamling

reignfire said:


> has anyone tried pairing iDSD Micro + with iDSD nano? Any feedback?
> 
> I have a very capable CMOY amp currently paired with DX90 and iDSD Micro, but the amp is too heavy and bulky. Any recommendations?


 
  
 to be honest in a mobile setup there is no need to pair the micro iDSD with any other amp, its very capable on its own with the built in headphone amp an all the versatile settings, like the power settings, that come with it. The only scenario were I use an external headphone amp is at the desktop, for example with a tube headphone amp if you like a warmer sound signature.


----------



## Reignfire

I partially agree. However, my triple deck setup produces cleaner, smoother SQ, longer decay, better instrument separation and wider soundstage than iDSD micro and DX90 only.


----------



## tf1216

Check out what I saw before getting to CanJam.  What a perfect fit!


----------



## estreeter

I'm guessing that's the iPad Mini strapped to the micro ? Based on my time with the Mini, that would only be a viable brick for someone with very large hands, but I appreciate the effort the owner has gone to here.


----------



## pekingduck

estreeter said:


> I'm guessing that's the iPad Mini strapped to the micro ? Based on my time with the Mini, that would only be a viable brick for someone with very large hands, but I appreciate the effort the owner has gone to here.


 
 Hmm..looks more like the iPhone 6 Plus to me


----------



## Dixter

Yep... that the 6 plus...   I would guess 128 GB loaded with FLAC/DSD...    a great match up with the micro...


----------



## estreeter

Apols - I forgot the next iPhone was going to be larger than the earlier models. Explains why it's a better fit.


----------



## jexby

after hearing the "full iFi stack" which included iTube and iCan into HE-560, wow am I (much more) interested in their mini line in 2015!


----------



## mink70

So I was one of the early, sight-unseen buyers of the iDSD Micro, and never paid much attention to the clear plastic caps that cover the RCA jacks on the back. Well, the other day my cat ate one of them, and I just paid a veterinary surgeon $2500 to get it out of her. So here's my review of the iDSD Micro: for $3000, the sound is just okay.


----------



## estreeter

mink70 said:


> So I was one of the early, sight-unseen buyers of the iDSD Micro, and never paid much attention to the clear plastic caps that cover the RCA jacks on the back. Well, the other day my cat ate one of them, and I just paid a veterinary surgeon $2500 to get it out of her. So here's my review of the iDSD Micro: for $3000, the sound is just okay.


 
  
 Sorry to hear that, but you clearly love cats a whole lot more than I do. I just spent $2500 on one of these and you've completely cancelled any hint of buyer's remorse.
  

  
 My dealer tried to upsell me on the matching amp today but laughed when I told him I struggle to maneuver the player into position - Marantz are putting lead weights in these, I'm sure of it.


----------



## Poimandres

$2,500!!!??? If it was my cat it would have cost about .50 cents. And about 15 minutes of shoveling!


----------



## tmac7balla

Just picked up a idsd micro last night. I am completely blown away by the experience. I have hooked it up to a pair of LCD-2, B&W p7, and klipsch pro media 2.1 computer speakers. All of which sounds leagues better then when played through my meridian explorer. I just recently got the LCD-2 so I am still in the process of breaking them in. Is there a big difference with the idsd after it is broken in? Also can someone point me in the right direction on getting dsd files? I would like to know what all the hype is about!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

you have the right question in the right forum.  
  
 first off there is a update in firmware did you check and see if you need it  .
 next I need to know how you plan to paly back . is it j river. ???
  
 next go to acousticsounds. com  google them  they have a store  great suff  if avalible buy dsd 128 over 64  .http://store.acousticsounds.com/
  
  
 next is opus 3 .  http://shop.dsdfile.com/2014/10/01/opus3-dsd-showcase-no-4/
  
 anything by opus is very good and of high quality. opus 3 number 3 is very good and favorite of mine  . lead track is house of the rising sun. cindy peters.  but any give you the qulity to show off dsd. as I owna micro and its dsd is very good.
 enjoy
 al


----------



## tmac7balla

Currently Im using AIMP3 for play back. I heard someone else mention j river so I will give the trial period a try. Thank you for the advice! What is the benefit of using j river over something free like aimp3?
  
 Quote:


alrainbow said:


> you have the right question in the right forum.
> 
> first off there is a update in firmware did you check and see if you need it  .
> next I need to know how you plan to paly back . is it j river. ???
> ...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I do not know the program. But I do know that j river for PC or Mac is good . I m not saying your program is not good. Try j river 20 it's free for 30 days and post questions of how to set up I will responce or many others. It plays good with your new toy. Ps it plays better dsd than dacs costing much more in price. The PCM is pretty good too. Enjoy it. 
Al


----------



## Dixter

tmac7balla said:


> Just picked up a idsd micro last night. I am completely blown away by the experience. I have hooked it up to a pair of LCD-2, B&W p7, and klipsch pro media 2.1 computer speakers. All of which sounds leagues better then when played through my meridian explorer. I just recently got the LCD-2 so I am still in the process of breaking them in. Is there a big difference with the idsd after it is broken in? Also can someone point me in the right direction on getting dsd files? I would like to know what all the hype is about!


 
  
 Here you go....  go to  this website listed below...  when you get there, up in the right hand corner is a drop down menu...  
 choose " Test bench HD audio files " and click it...  the next page comes up, follow the directions on how to gain access for download...    notice that all of the songs have several different formats for you to Test your setup with...     To download audio files* username: 2L* and *password: 2L* is requested
  
 http://www.2l.no/  
  
 with these files you can test the display of the idsd micro for the color change and if you use Jriver you can verify the files are properly being presented to the idsd micro for the display confirmation...   
  
 the songs are test songs and you should be able to hear the dsd format and there should not be any distortion as these are as clean as you can get...   and they have some pretty good dynamic range  
  
 have fun ...


----------



## tf1216

Here is another one.
 https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation
  
 Also, check out Blue Coast Records and http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue64/hfs1.htm.


----------



## john57

I wanted to say we enjoy the IFI iCLUB RMAF dinner on last Saturday night at cool river cafe in Denver.  The shrimp appetizer was the largest I have seen and had to cut the shrimp in pieces. The jim bean ripeye streak was just great! Thanks for the memories!


----------



## roamling

alrainbow said:


> next is opus 3 .  http://shop.dsdfile.com/2014/10/01/opus3-dsd-showcase-no-4/
> 
> anything by opus is very good and of high quality. opus 3 number 3 is very good and favorite of mine  . lead track is house of the rising sun. cindy peters.  but any give you the qulity to show off dsd. as I owna micro and its dsd is very good.
> enjoy
> al


 
  
 just listened to the DSD128 opus 3 sampler. absolutely stunning recording! thanks for the tip. This is a label I am  going to explore further for sure


----------



## ALRAINBOW

If you like cat Stevens. Buy tea for tillerman dsd 64 from acoustics . Also if you can get to like elvis Presley. Get stereo 57. Yes it's from 1957 the year I was born. I was not an elvis fan until I heard him sing like I never heard him ever before. A real canary. He was. It's the best I have heard of him. Tunes I never herd befote. 
Also try some stuff from blue coast and native dsd is real good stuff too. 

The ifidsd micro does really good dsd. 
Al


----------



## estreeter

Al, I'm very close to pulling the pin on the micro - have loved the nano from day one but told myself I would hold off for the iDSD mini desktop version. Given that I have virtually everything else that iFi make, I figure I may as well just get the iRack+micro and be done with it. Paired with my Alpha PS1 powered monitors this would make a killer desktop rig in a small apartment - other than the USB cable I'm enjoying my little iFi stack. 
  
 I second your call on JRMC - easily the best compromise between aesthetics and functionality out there.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

If I did not know how cheap it was I would think it's about at the same price of its nearest competitor . But the micro has so many more features and sooooo much cheaper I knida feel ripped by the other. Glad you like j river. 
Al


----------



## KmanChu

john57 said:


> I wanted to say we enjoy the IFI iCLUB RMAF dinner on last Saturday night at cool river cafe in Denver.  The shrimp appetizer was the largest I have seen and had to cut the shrimp in pieces. The jim bean ripeye streak was just great! Thanks for the memories!


 
 Man, rub it in. I wish I could have been there!


----------



## Poimandres

al how does this compare to the dac in the r10?


----------



## Triodemode

tmac7balla said:


>


 

 Also check out Foobar2000...  It's a free and very configurable player that with the sacd plugin will natively play DSD files.
  
http://www.foobar2000.org/


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's very diiffrent to my ears. The HDP r10 is fine and I atill,use it hear and there as a one stop at the gym mostly. But the micro out shines it plenty and dsd is really dsd with the micro. It's pcm is pretty good too. Even when stacked against the hugo the dsd on the micro is a clear winner for me pcm is odd it seems to be music picky some sound better on the hugo while others the hugo is winner. I first thought it was a resolution thing as I tried many formats in pcm . Some the Hugo won others the micro did. Lastly the hugo is more neutral almost bright and a little thin. While the micro is a little warmer but gives a better note thickness with all the music. . So if a track is bright the micro is good but if it's a little laid back the hugo is better. Now headphones even the hd800 is fine on both but for me a little better on the micro even though it's more detailed with the hugo. I was going to do good post in comparing them but after many hours of going back and forth only dsd is a clear winner . Of course features and the price make the micro a winner all,the time . But if it's just sound and PCM it comes down to choice as the Hugo has its strong points and the Micro does as well. If I owned the micro there would be no reason to buy the Hugo. Owning both its not so simple and since I have so much stuff . Heanoes and CIEMS. They both have a time and place. I really wish watts would come out with a new firmware or even a few and we could roll ty firmwares . 
Al


----------



## tmac7balla

alrainbow said:


> I do not know the program. But I do know that j river for PC or Mac is good . I m not saying your program is not good. Try j river 20 it's free for 30 days and post questions of how to set up I will responce or many others. It plays good with your new toy. Ps it plays better dsd than dacs costing much more in price. The PCM is pretty good too. Enjoy it.
> Al


 

 Set up help would be really appreciated. I downloaded a sampler from http://shop.dsdfile.com/category/samplers/ but when I play it on J River it sounds distorted...


----------



## john57

Just follow these steps
  
 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDQQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fifi-audio.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fdata%2FDoPInstructions_JRMC18%2B19.pdf&ei=v5Q8VL2kBpOtyATQkoCADQ&usg=AFQjCNGRGX608DbqcYoO7LuP0amDp1TIdA&sig2=ASJITqhp3H07pRlbg37Q-A&bvm=bv.77161500,d.aWw
  
 It is a bit out of date but should work.
  When you mean distorted does it stutter?


----------



## maricius

tmac7balla said:


> Just picked up a idsd micro last night. I am completely blown away by the experience. I have hooked it up to a pair of LCD-2, B&W p7, and klipsch pro media 2.1 computer speakers. All of which sounds leagues better then when played through my meridian explorer. I just recently got the LCD-2 so I am still in the process of breaking them in. *Is there a big difference with the idsd after it is broken in?* Also can someone point me in the right direction on getting dsd files? I would like to know what all the hype is about!


 
  
 It was for me.


----------



## RHMMMM

tf1216 said:


> I bet they are focused on rmaf and their iFi Club meeting at the moment. The company has top-notch customer service. Allow them a couple of days then reassess their response time.




Still no response from iFi. I escalated to my dealer and he is also having trouble. This is not good for my opinion of iFi or AMR. RMAF or not, there is no excuse for slow customer service response and not standing behind their product. I expect top tier support for the experience or bust. I am going to get this replaced and sell it. 

A local dealer does not carry the AMR and iFi line because of build quality and support issues. Seems he was wise.

Trust=broken.


----------



## BillsonChang007

rhmmmm said:


> Still no response from iFi. I escalated to my dealer and he is also having trouble. This is not good for my opinion of iFi or AMR. RMAF or not, there is no excuse for slow customer service response and not standing behind their product. I expect top tier support for the experience or bust. I am going to get this replaced and sell it.
> 
> A local dealer does not carry the AMR and iFi line because of build quality and support issues. Seems he was wise.
> 
> Trust=broken.




This is my first time hearing about iFi's customer sevice's issue. I do agree with RMAF or not part thought but I guess they are just way too busy lately.


----------



## Wfojas

maricius said:


> It was for me.


 
 Me, too. Its quite noticeable.


----------



## tf1216

rhmmmm said:


> Still no response from iFi. I escalated to my dealer and he is also having trouble. This is not good for my opinion of iFi or AMR. RMAF or not, there is no excuse for slow customer service response and not standing behind their product. I expect top tier support for the experience or bust. I am going to get this replaced and sell it.
> 
> A local dealer does not carry the AMR and iFi line because of build quality and support issues. Seems he was wise.
> 
> Trust=broken.


 
  
 RMAF ended on Sunday so they have had one travel day to return home.  I would hope they would be back to normal duties starting today.  Please keep us posted.  What's going on with your device?  Having problems?


----------



## RHMMMM

Yes, they actually just replied saying I'll get an RMA towards the end of the day.  I'm a bit happier now about it, but we'll see depending on the outcome.
  
 Yes, having problems.  I've been using the device in my office system (speaker-based) and using only the RCA outs for the past month.  I took it out of the box and it's been sitting on a credenza since then - haven't really used the headphone part but for a quick test.  Finally took it on vacation with me this past week and realized there is an issue with the IEM match switch on the bottom.  The switch locks into place, but if I touched it at all (or looked at it the wrong way) and it was set to say..."ultra," it would blow my ears out.  Bad solder joint or bad IEM switch, I suppose.
  
 Looking at the teardown pictures that were posted on this thread (or was it the other?) my confidence in having it repaired is very low.  It appears that if you disassemble the unit, it basically self destructs.  So, I'm pushing for an entire replacement.  I don't want it coming back "repaired" with other issues...


----------



## john57

I think that it helps not to be searching for faults, like one dealer that will not carry them could just be dealer BS talk. Nothing in the disassemble pictures that would indicate any self destruct issue. Soon your issues will be taken care of. I always try to have the attitude when I wake up in the morning that things will work out in the end.  I did not have issues in contacting IFI with several questions. Since IFI already contact you and you will have a positive outcome. When I was at the dinner with IFI it did look like most of the staff where there and I had a good feeling about the group. Stay positive!


----------



## fzman

john57 said:


> I wanted to say we enjoy the IFI iCLUB RMAF dinner on last Saturday night at cool river cafe in Denver.  The shrimp appetizer was the largest I have seen and had to cut the shrimp in pieces. The jim bean ripeye streak was just great! Thanks for the memories!


 
  
 I had the bone-in rib eye and a taste of the filet as well - it was very yummy.  Which end of the table were you sitting at?  I swas the guy with the shaved head (only pne there, iirc.


----------



## tf1216

Good luck with your Micro RHMMMM.  You are in good hands now if they did contact you.
  
 Hi fzman, Tyler here.  Cute dog as your avatar.  It's nice to meet you on here now


----------



## RHMMMM

john57 said:


> I think that it helps not to be searching for faults, like one dealer that will not carry them could just be dealer BS talk. *Nothing in the disassemble pictures that would indicate any self destruct issue*. Soon your issues will be taken care of. I always try to have the attitude when I wake up in the morning that things will work out in the end.  I did not have issues in contacting IFI with several questions. Since IFI already contact you and you will have a positive outcome. When I was at the dinner with IFI it did look like most of the staff where there and I had a good feeling about the group. Stay positive!


 
  
 See post 719 and 720.  Broken switch and torn battery pads.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/705#post_10845378


----------



## WNBC

So what did you guys talk about at dinner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?  What's in store for us iFi Club members?  
  
  
 Quote:


john57 said:


> When I was at the dinner with IFI it did look like most of the staff where there and I had a good feeling about the group. Stay positive!


----------



## john57

Just means that you need more care to disassemble the unit. I think that the user in question wanted to take the unit apart for study since it is his hobby.  I had equipment that was a challenge to take apart but have not broken anything.  That broken switch was repaired by the end user himself . Stay positive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P.S. Andy Chan, the guy that did the IFI iDSD tear down rated the ease to open : 7 out of 10. That is not terrible.


----------



## maricius

alrainbow said:


> It's very diiffrent to my ears. The HDP r10 is fine and I atill,use it hear and there as a one stop at the gym mostly. But the micro out shines it plenty and dsd is really dsd with the micro. It's pcm is pretty good too. Even when stacked against the hugo the dsd on the micro is a clear winner for me pcm is odd it seems to be music picky some sound better on the hugo while others the hugo is winner. I first thought it was a resolution thing as I tried many formats in pcm . Some the Hugo won others the micro did. Lastly the hugo is more neutral almost bright and a little thin. While the micro is a little warmer but gives a better note thickness with all the music. . So if a track is bright the micro is good but if it's a little laid back the hugo is better. Now headphones even the hd800 is fine on both but for me a little better on the micro even though it's more detailed with the hugo. I was going to do good post in comparing them but after many hours of going back and forth only dsd is a clear winner . Of course features and the price make the micro a winner all,the time . But if it's just sound and PCM it comes down to choice as the Hugo has its strong points and the Micro does as well. If I owned the micro there would be no reason to buy the Hugo. Owning both its not so simple and since I have so much stuff . Heanoes and CIEMS. They both have a time and place. I really wish watts would come out with a new firmware or even a few and we could roll ty firmwares .
> Al


 

 How does the bass response and soundstage compare between Micro iDSD and Chord Hugo.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I would say that too is opinion. As the hugo is brighter it does give more detail in base and Staging. But then the micro is just more musical in note thickness. It's really about taste. , price and the type of reproduction chain you have. 
If the ciem I use is say the hear 8a or Roxanne's the hugo wins. But if it's the tg 334 or jh13 FP then I need the micro. See what I mean. But if it comes to price and features then it's micro. I have told many to buy the hugo. But now I would say try the micro it's much less of a investment 
And EQ can help a lot if need be. 
Al


----------



## john57

wnbc said:


> So what did you guys talk about at dinner
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just talk about what happening at RMAF and the custom molded headphones that some were using. No breaking news yet.


----------



## fzman

tf1216 said:


> Good luck with your Micro RHMMMM.  You are in good hands now if they did contact you.
> 
> Hi fzman, Tyler here.  Cute dog as your avatar.  It's nice to meet you on here now


 
 That's Gus, the day I first met him as a puppy, RIP. I had to put him down in July...  One of the saddest days of my life.   
  
 On a happier note, it was great meeting you as well...


----------



## tf1216

Gus had the cutest paws man.  What a little pup!


----------



## WNBC

Thanks.  Will try to make it next year.  It will be my first RMAF or any audio equipment type event.  Should be fun.  Looking forward to the shrimp too   
  
  
 Quote:


john57 said:


> Just talk about what happening at RMAF and the custom molded headphones that some were using. No breaking news yet.


----------



## LoryWiv

john57 said:


> Just follow these steps
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


 I am using foobar2000 and can get DSD to output using the iFi WASAPI output, so long as I select PCM rather than DSD....so effectively this is Foobar''s implementation of DoP. My understanfng is that if i wanted to output DSD directly I would need to install ASIO which reportedly can be buggy. So my question: from a bit perfect / audio quality point of view, is there reason to believe ASIO to output DSD without the DoP is superior?

Thanks for any thoughts and insight as I am really quite happy with the Foobar DoP quality and hesitant to try ASIO unless the concensus is it is truly superior.

Best!


----------



## john57

try this and make sure you have the two plugins for DSD. Foo-dsd and the SACD which is addition to the IFI ASIO driver
  
 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fifi-audio.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fdata%2FDoPInstructions_Foobar.pdf&ei=1cA9VL7SO9WcygS664GYBA&usg=AFQjCNHwCt4dTyJnvlgKEwQEVWVgODEICQ&sig2=PscSna4Nx7vLI7H5CFTSAg&bvm=bv.77412846,d.aWw


----------



## LoryWiv

I'll give it a go, and thank you for the link!


----------



## LoryWiv

Still no luck....there is a setting in FooBar 2000 ASIO plugin settings for DSD to DSD conversion....shall I leave that at "none?"


----------



## Triodemode

This is how I have the Foobar2000 ASIO driver configured.  Hope this helps


----------



## LoryWiv

triodemode said:


> This is how I have the Foobar2000 ASIO driver configured.  Hope this helps
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Triodemode. Do you have SACD --> ASIO Driver mode set to DSD or PCM?


----------



## Triodemode

lorywiv said:


>


 

 No I have the SACD ASIO driver mode set to DSD.


----------



## LoryWiv

Thanks. I previously I had no sound output set on on DSD, fine with PCM. Will try again using your settings when I am home this evening.


----------



## LoryWiv

Success! Man, sounds musical, pure and sweet. Multiple "wow" moments hearing familiar music with more magic, delighted ears and brain. If this is placebo effect, bring me some more! Seeing the cyan light on the micro. is nice too. Very slight "pop" between tracks as others have pointed out but doesn't bother me at all as not noticeable unless I concentrate just to hear it.
  
 Thanks for the help!


----------



## Triodemode

lorywiv said:


> Success! Man, sounds musical, pure and sweet. Multiple "wow" moments hearing familiar music with more magic, delighted ears and brain. If this is placebo effect, bring me some more! Seeing the cyan light on the micro. is nice too. Very slight "pop" between tracks as others have pointed out but doesn't bother me at all as not noticeable unless I concentrate just to hear it.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


 

 Glad to hear you finally got native DSD working.  I agree... DSD just sounds more open and natural to my ears and as others have also stated, this is where the micro iDSD excels.  Regarding the pop issue, iFi has a firmware update that greatly reduces it.  I didn't have any popping issue using Foobar on my XP machine though others have. 
  
 You can download the latest version firmware below.
  
http://ifi-audio.com/download/


----------



## LoryWiv

triodemode said:


> Glad to hear you finally got native DSD working.  I agree... DSD just sounds more open and natural to my ears and as others have also stated, this is where the micro iDSD excels.  Regarding the pop issue, iFi has a firmware update that greatly reduces it.  I didn't have any popping issue using Foobar on my XP machine though others have.
> 
> You can download the latest version firmware below.
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/download/


 

 Thank you, working beautifully.


----------



## Ookazi

I have been happily using the iDSD micro for about a month now and while I'm satisfied with my purchase there's still some quirks and questions remaining so I figured I'd post 'em here.
  
 1) The "IEM Match" (Gain?) Switch came off, I put it back on and used some instant adhesive on it, lol. Do all of them come off that easily? Not really a problem but I'm kinda worried about losing the buttons during travel or something.
  
 2) There's a "pop" sound when the device is turned on and off, which is common for external DACs as far as I know. However, this is becoming slightly annoying since I tend to have my headphones on all the time when sitting in front of the PC and the device keeps turning itself off (or "going to sleep", not sure how to call it) automatically (every ~2 mins after being idle). Is there a way to change/disable this behavior?
  
 3) Is there any way to differentiate between "battery-powered" state and "USB-powered" state? (The LED is green either way when in use)
  
 4) When using the RCA/Cinch connectors on the back of the device, I get some kind of "fade in" when playing my songs (at the beginning of each song or upon resuming a paused movie). Has anyone experienced this? It seems more apparent with Media Player Classic than with Foobar. (I'm using Windows 8.1)
  
 5) When the battery is empty (?), the device temporarily becomes completely unusable (blue blinking LED). After feeding it USB power for ~5 minutes, it becomes usable again. Happened only twice to me though. Is this normal?
  
  
 While this seems like a lot of trouble, as far as my listening experience is concerned these are minor problems really (Would be really happy if 2) got addressed in some manner though). I like this device and I'd buy it again, as I know of no real alternative to date that offers this kind of package at this pricepoint. It really gives you the feeling of listening to a full-sized DAC albeit being portable.
  
 edit: I have the latest firmware


----------



## audioyears

I've been reading up about dac amps for some weeks now
 but  not sure how much better my music will sound.
  
 At the moment my setup is headphones(AKG 702)connected to computer.
 AKG's plugged directly into sound card (Asus xonar D2)
  
 Advice needed please.
 To me the sound from computer to the AKG's sounds excellent.
 so is it worth me buying the ifi micro iDSD.
 how much better will my sounds be if i decide to buy the ifi micro.
 would it be a worthy upgrade.
  
 Thanks guys..


----------



## BillsonChang007

audioyears said:


> I've been reading up about dac amps for some weeks now
> 
> but  not sure how much better my music will sound.
> 
> ...




I have a AKG702 but it's the 65th Annie which sounds warmer than the original K701 (and K702 as well I guess?). IMO, upgrading from my FiiO E07K/E09K to Micro iDSD was a huge step up for me. 

It's more powerful with Micro iDSD's amp: the AKG K702 seems to benefits with more power to my experience but the E09K's amp section is actually more musical than the Micro iDSD's.

The duo DAC built in Micro iDSD: it makes the E07K feels very centered and very "deadly" sounding.

DSD 512 support: Even converting some of my 44.1/16 FLACs to DSD 512 makes everything sound awesome. Top it off with the Minimum-Phase filter, it's just awesome! 

Future proof: with it's high DAC spec and high output power, you will have no worries about upgrading them in the future. If anything, maybe only the amp section. Other than that, power wise, it has plenty of juice to spare. 

Hope it helps
Billson


----------



## mikemercer

WOW!
  
 I got to hear the iFi Audio Nano iDSD (I've been rockin' their iCAN and iUSB Powerplant for awhile now) at Canjam over the weekend while I was kickin' it w/ Alex Rosson and we were both FLOORED by its performance!!
  
 Alex called it the most impressive thing he'd heard there! I was also blown-away by the synergy of the unit with my LCD-XCs - the sound was dynamic, textural, extended in both frequency extremes (low and the highest of highs) and just a sincere pleasure to listen to!
  
 I'm gonna be reviewing it for Audio360.org and here on Head-Fi ASAP!!
  
 No wonder this thread is on fire!!





  
 When I got back home I fired up my iCAN w/ my Alpha Prime and man, I forgot what a terrific job those guys do!!
 I busted the iCAN out and set it up again alongside headphone amps far more expensive and huge in comparison!
 I also love their "3D imaging" cross-feed-type feature!


----------



## fzman

Mike, that's the Micro, not the Nano.


----------



## mikemercer

fzman said:


> Mike, that's the Micro, not the Nano.


 
 AH!
 Thanks for correcting me!
  
 It was a truly magical combo w/ my LCD-XC!!
  
 Oh, that's right - the Nano is the smaller one!
  
 I'm looking forward to digging into that review!!


----------



## audioyears

Hi thanks Billson
  
  I might go ahead and purchase my first dac amp.
 After reading all the posts here about the ifi micro,this thing sounds so damn good.
  
 Thanks...


----------



## fzman

mikemercer said:


> AH!
> Thanks for correcting me!
> 
> It was a truly magical combo w/ my LCD-XC!!
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for the short post on the correction - I sent it from my phone- and I was pretty sure you were referring to the Micro, since Alex flashed it at the camera when you and he were being video-d on the Enjoythemusic coverage....
  
 I also have one, and used it to listen to stuff at the show as well...


----------



## iFi audio

*RMAF – micro iDSD was a rock star. But other iFi gear rocked too!*  By and far, this was the most spectacular impact by iFi at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. Over the weekend of 10th -12th October, the iFi booth exhibited:

 - Micro iDSD
 - nano iDSD
 - nano iCAN
 - Retro Stereo 50 System
 - AMR DP-777 Special Edition

*Awesome Audeze*
 An absolute cracking endorsement was one on the fly by Alex Rosson, CEO of Audeze who when interviewed by Michael Mercer of Enjoy the Music.com, instead of talking about the LCD-X and the upcoming LCD-Z, Alex went and gave super huge kudos to the micro iDSD!





http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/53875900

 At the 02.00.00 mark, you will see Alex Rossen go literally gaga over the micro iDSD calling it the “most advanced product on the floor” and being “blown away by it”.

 Thank you Alex – we really appreciate those stupendous comments! And to the whole Audeze team of Tony and Taz and Sankar.

 The Abyss, JH Audio and HiFi Man people were also super nice and they used the micro iDSD too. AlClair also deserve a mention too as Marc, Amy and Tyler were wonderful people and made great neighbours. Check out their CIEMS!

*Pez of Audio Circle gave the iFi Big Rig the top-spot!*
 The Audio Circle review team of Pez and Tyson are well-known on Audio Circle and they really spend all three days studiously listening to just about every room and every setup.

 This year, the iFi Big Rig (iUSB/iDAC/iTUBE/iCAN) and the “hot new” HiFi Man 560 made the top-spot for Pez. Tyson was struck down by a bug and missed most of the whole (get well soon).






 As Pez wrote:
_“iFi has always had some of the best sounding setups at the show. Made my list several times, but this year was something special. The iFi stack combined with a server and Hifiman HF-560s are, far and away, the best headphone rig I have ever heard. I spent the better part of 2 hours throughout the show coming back and listening to just this setup. I walked around can jam and listened to a lot (not everything) and nothing was even close to the beauty and finesse of this system. I think the whole setup cost less than $2000. Best bass I have ever heard from headphones, really comfortable to wear and incredible smoothness. This is the first time I have ever thought ‘ok, I NEED to buy these.’ when it comes to headphones. Someday….. Someday.”_

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129460.0

 Wowzers, we are chuffed to bits – thank you Pez!

 Even venerable industry participants such as Ray Kimber came by and waxed lyrical over the Retro Stereo 50 system.

*The first of many iCLUB gatherings*
 Putting aside these wonderful comments and accolades, on Saturday evening, we also had the iCLUB dinner.

 As you may know, ths was held at the Cool River Café which is a 10 minute walk from the Denver Mariott Tech Center.

 The turnout was superb as we had a total of 15 people. The food was great and the company even better.






 All we can say is that The Jim Bean Rib Eye and the Denver Venison are mouth-watering good. All washed down with a very nice 1998 red!






 While we did not talk all about audio, we shared ideas and discussed the future trends in the industry and explained why we developed the micro iDSD and how we came about developing the upcoming Stereo 50.






 The whole evening was fabulous and all we can say is more of the same next year!

 A special mention to John E who could not attend yet he was still kind enough to bring over to the iFi booth a “12 Percent” micro brewery bottle. It lasted less than 10 minutes as once the top was off, it “eva-pourat-ed” very quickly…

*It’s a Wrap!*
 So far in 2014, the nano iDSD has won an EISA and the micro iDSD has been selected as the DAC/Headamp of choice by Audeze, Abyss, JH Audio, AlClair and other industry participants for their personal use!

 We are as enamoured with our friendship with these major headphone industry people as much as the fact that they are using iFi gear at RMAF and in their future setups.

 Roll on RMAF 2015 – we just cannot wait!


 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/rmaf-micro-idsd-was-a-rock-star-but-other-ifi-gear-rocked-too/


----------



## donkeanu

hd650/alpha dogs > micro idsd > lyr2..
  
 any thoughts on this combo?


----------



## mikemercer

ifi audio said:


> *RMAF – micro iDSD was a rock star. But other iFi gear rocked too!*  By and far, this was the most spectacular impact by iFi at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. Over the weekend of 10th -12th October, the iFi booth exhibited:
> 
> - Micro iDSD
> - nano iDSD
> ...


 
 You guys are KILLING it as always!
  
 I brought my iCAN and the iPhono over to Alex's house last year to show him how well the iCAN worked w/ my LCD-2s and LCD-3s!
 He's been itching to hear more ever since!! And he still have my iFi phonostage! The lil' bastid... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't WAIT to dig into a review of the micro myself! My dear friend and editor at Headphone.Guru Chris Sommovigo is also blown away by it!!


----------



## jexby

mikemercer said:


> You guys are KILLING it as always!
> 
> 
> I can't WAIT to dig into a review of the micro myself! My dear friend and editor at Headphone.Guru Chris Sommovigo is also blown away by it!!


 
  
 I'm just giddy that I bought into the iFi micro iDSD on pre-sale and jumped aboard the hype train for this unit somehow before the famous mikemercer did!




  
 my latest experiment with the micro iDSD:
 as a "pure DAC" replacing a Concero HD feeding Lyr2 --> HE-560 happened over a few nights in recent weeks.
 findings can be found elsewhere, but let's just summarize it as almost a sonic Draw.
 except for a few truly minute details to my ears.... of course, Lyr 2 tubes could have hidden some of the deltas as well.
  
 I'd love to see a professional with golden ears compare those 2 DACs side by side for some "legitimate" findings.


----------



## mikemercer

jexby said:


> I'm just giddy that I bought into the iFi micro iDSD on pre-sale and jumped aboard the hype train for this unit somehow before the famous mikemercer did!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 you certainly did beat me to this lil' sonic wonder!!




  
 Some comparisons coming as soon as I get the micro!!!!
  
 It sounds SO good with my Audeze LCD-XCs - a truly remarkable pairing!!


----------



## BillsonChang007

audioyears said:


> Hi thanks Billson
> 
> I might go ahead and purchase my first dac amp.
> After reading all the posts here about the ifi micro,this thing sounds so damn good.
> ...




No problem! Do share your impressions


----------



## d1sturb3d

hi guys..anybody here that has a iCAN paired with a HE-560? I checked the power out and its 400mw only..I am not sure if that is sufficient for the HE-560..but would love to know the impressions who owns this setup or have heard it.

The iFi micro iDSD has lots of power but I do not need a dac/amp..I just need a porta amp that I can use at the office..desktop amps are a no go..since they are buly unless it has a very small footprint.

so far Fiio E12, Cayin C5 and the iCAN are the current options I have researched

edit
found a link..i will post my query there too


----------



## Turrican2

d1sturb3d said:


> hi guys..anybody here that has a iCAN paired with a HE-560? I checked the power out and its 400mw only..I am not sure if that is sufficient for the HE-560..but would love to know the impressions who owns this setup or have heard it.
> 
> The iFi micro iDSD has lots of power but I do not need a dac/amp..I just need a porta amp that I can use at the office..desktop amps are a no go..since they are buly unless it has a very small footprint.
> 
> ...




I run my he-500 from my ican, drives them easily. Not sure offhand how they compare in terms of power requirements.


----------



## KmanChu

d1sturb3d said:


> hi guys..anybody here that has a iCAN paired with a HE-560? I checked the power out and its 400mw only..I am not sure if that is sufficient for the HE-560..but would love to know the impressions who owns this setup or have heard it.
> 
> The iFi micro iDSD has lots of power but I do not need a dac/amp..I just need a porta amp that I can use at the office..desktop amps are a no go..since they are buly unless it has a very small footprint.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The micro iCAN drives my Alpha Dogs and Audezes perfectly well, and thats even on hte middle gain setting, not the highest gain setting. It runs 400 mw Class A which means that all of that power is actually useful power. I'm pretty sure they demoed the iCAN with the HE-560 at RMAF and it got lots of positive comments.


----------



## Dixter

d1sturb3d said:


> hi guys..anybody here that has a iCAN paired with a HE-560? I checked the power out and its 400mw only..I am not sure if that is sufficient for the HE-560..but would love to know the impressions who owns this setup or have heard it.
> 
> The iFi micro iDSD has lots of power but I do not need a dac/amp..I just need a porta amp that I can use at the office..desktop amps are a no go..since they are buly unless it has a very small footprint.
> 
> ...


 

 Contact this guy..  he has a couple solutions for you....  portable and desktop with plenty of power
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/244473-o2-headamp-output-booster-pcb.html
  
 I'm getting a couple in the mail in the next few days to play with...


----------



## iFi audio

Calling all iCLUB Members! We promised you some goodies. Here you go.
  
*iCLUB: The 1st of many exclusives. The David Elias iFi DSD album*  As we outlined previously, one of the first exclusive benefits for all iCLUB members is a DSD album giveaway

 The iFi album is DSD64 recording personally-selected by David Elias for iCLUB members – David has led a very interesting life as an independent musician and now enjoys living and pursuing music, photography, poetry and video in Hawaii (we are soooo envious!).
  
 In this special release he is writing, playing, singing and recording his own DSD tracks (at the Super Audio Center in Boulder Colorado and Slipperworld.net in La Honda, California) with other gifted musicians.
  

 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/iclub-the-1st-of-many-exclusives-the-david-elias-ifi-dsd-album/
  
David chose 7 tracks in a special compilation just for you all.
  
They are selected tracks from his various DSD album releases available online at his website and elsewhere (see below).
  
For all iCLUB members, please contact your concierges and ask for the password for the tracks at iclubcrm.ifi-audio.com.
  
Note: As this is a giveaway by iFi, we hope that you respect David’s hard work and ask your friends to listen to and if they so wish, to purchase David’s fabulous albums from his website: www.davidelias.com
  
_Not in the iCLUB? All is not lost. We are shall release 2 tracks again cherry-picked by David for you. These will come a little while after the iCLUB album is out._


----------



## Dixter

For all iCLUB members, please contact your concierges and ask for the password for the tracks at iclubcrm.ifi-audio.com.

  How do we know who the concierges is that we need to contact...   is there an email sent out...


----------



## WNBC

I think a lot of people were assigned a concierge.  I received an email from mine introducing herself.  
  
 Just log into the iClub website and create a new ticket asking for the name of your concierge as well as the album download password.  They will take care of you.


----------



## roamling

nice suprise!


----------



## iFi audio

wnbc said:


> I think a lot of people were assigned a concierge.  I received an email from mine introducing herself.
> 
> 
> Just log into the iClub website and create a new ticket asking for the name of your concierge as well as the album download password.  They will take care of you.


 

 Yes - the iCLUB members were each assigned a concierge.
  
 This only came after the Octa-Adopter registered their product on the warranty page with iFi.
  
 These Octa-Adopter units were the initial 512 sold around the globe.
  
 As of course this was the only way we knew who the owners are.
  
 Owners of non-Octa Adopter units are not in the iCLUB of course.


----------



## Dixter

ifi audio said:


> Yes - the iCLUB members were each assigned a concierge.
> 
> This only came after the Octa-Adopter registered their product on the warranty page with iFi.
> 
> ...


 

 Ok...  just registered it again....    awaiting the concierge email now...


----------



## DJBaila

I love my iFi Micro iDSD! here are some pictures... A&K AK100->FiiO L12S Optical Cable->iFi Micro iDSD->AKG K702-65th =


----------



## tmac7balla

Question for Micro IDSD owners out there. When connected via USB with turbo mode turned on and volume 2/4 does your IDSD battery drain faster then it is able to charge? I am in the process of trying to burn in the DAC but every time I leave to go to work when I come back home the DAC is dead.... Am I doing something wrong. I have tried both USB battery power mode and just battery powered mode. This happens when plugged into my desktop pc (usb 3.0) or macbook pro with retina display(usb 3.0)


alrainbow said:


> you have the right question in the right forum.
> 
> first off there is a update in firmware did you check and see if you need it  .
> next I need to know how you plan to paly back . is it j river. ???
> ...


 
 I will check the update today. Thanks! "House of the rising sun" was amazing! My wife and I were in awe.
  


dixter said:


> Here you go....  go to  this website listed below...  when you get there, up in the right hand corner is a drop down menu...
> choose " Test bench HD audio files " and click it...  the next page comes up, follow the directions on how to gain access for download...    notice that all of the songs have several different formats for you to Test your setup with...     To download audio files* username: 2L* and *password: 2L* is requested
> 
> http://www.2l.no/
> ...


 
 Thank you!
  


alrainbow said:


> If you like cat Stevens. Buy tea for tillerman dsd 64 from acoustics . Also if you can get to like elvis Presley. Get stereo 57. Yes it's from 1957 the year I was born. I was not an elvis fan until I heard him sing like I never heard him ever before. A real canary. He was. It's the best I have heard of him. Tunes I never herd befote.
> Also try some stuff from blue coast and native dsd is real good stuff too.
> 
> The ifidsd micro does really good dsd.
> Al


 
 Did you get the Elvis track from acoustic audio? I would like to give this genre of music a try. I have been finding myself listening to music that I thought I would never find myself listening to.


----------



## BillsonChang007

djbaila said:


> I love my iFi Micro iDSD! here are some pictures... A&K AK100->FiiO L12S Optical Cable->iFi Micro iDSD->AKG K702-65th =




High five mate! Same righ except for the DAP (I uses mainly PC's USB)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Test 
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/94709/Elvis_Presley-Stereo_57_Essential_Elvis_Volume_2-DSD


----------



## john57

_Question for Micro IDSD owners out there. When connected via USB with turbo mode turned on and volume 2/4 does your IDSD battery drain faster then it is able to charge? I am in the process of trying to burn in the DAC but every time I leave to go to work when I come back home the DAC is dead.... Am I doing something wrong. I have tried both USB battery power mode and just battery powered mode. This happens when plugged into my desktop pc (usb 3.0) or macbook pro with retina display(usb 3.0)_
  
 I have not tried to bun in my micro I just use it. If you have burning in the DAC why use turbo mode? What is connected to the output?


----------



## HiFiRobot

Finally had the opportunity to listen to the iDSD Micro. The pairing with Hifiman HE-500 was sublime to my ears.
 Wow, it sounded even better than expected!


----------



## maricius

> Originally Posted by *tmac7balla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Question for Micro IDSD owners out there. When connected via USB with turbo mode turned on and volume 2/4 does your IDSD battery drain faster then it is able to charge? I am in the process of trying to burn in the DAC but every time I leave to go to work when I come back home the DAC is dead.... Am I doing something wrong. I have tried both USB battery power mode and just battery powered mode. This happens when plugged into my desktop pc (usb 3.0) or macbook pro with retina display(usb 3.0)


 
  
 On Eco mode, the battery will charge through leftover current from the USB. On Normal mode, the micro iDSD completely utilizes the USB power and leaves nothing to charge the battery (nor will the battery drain). On Turbo, USB isn't enough and there's an amount of power that is taken from the battery.


----------



## hifijunky

Hi everyone,
  
 I just got the iFi Micro iDSD a week ago and love it for everything I've tried except for one issue using an external DAP (Fiio X3) connected by coax. I get poor connectivity with this setup. It's very difficult to get a continuous audio stream unless I hold the mini plug adapter on the Fiio in just the right position. So, I have tried a half dozen different mini plug adapters but still have the same problem. Funny thing is if I use the same DAP and coax mini plug adapter with my Centrance dacmini, I am not getting any dropouts or connectivity issues. I have been using coax out of the Fiio with the dacmini for over a year now without this issue. I am using the supplied mono mini plug to rca jack that comes with the Micro iDSD to connect the iDSD through a coax rca to rca cable and then into an rca to mini plug adapter into the DAP. I don't get it. It would seem that the iDSD has a more difficult time locking on to the PCM stream (192khz/24 bit) from the Fiio. By the way, I am not having connectivity issues with the optical spdif output from my AK100. Any ideas?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## john57

maricius said:


> On Eco mode, the battery will charge through leftover current from the USB. On Normal mode, the micro iDSD completely utilizes the USB power and leaves nothing to charge the battery (nor will the battery drain). On Turbo, USB isn't enough and there's an amount of power that is taken from the battery.


 
 That makes it sound like the amp draws the power from the battery full time and the USB power keeps the battery charged when current is available and for the DAC selection. That may been the reason that there is a 15min periods of no music will the iDSD will turn off to allow more current to charge the battery in the meantime before the music starts again.


----------



## LoryWiv

hifijunky said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just got the iFi Micro iDSD a week ago and love it for everything I've tried except for one issue using an external DAP (Fiio X3) connected by coax. I get poor connectivity with this setup. It's very difficult to get a continuous audio stream unless I hold the mini plug adapter on the Fiio in just the right position. So, I have tried a half dozen different mini plug adapters but still have the same problem. Funny thing is if I use the same DAP and coax mini plug adapter with my Centrance dacmini, I am not getting any dropouts or connectivity issues. I have been using coax out of the Fiio with the dacmini for over a year now without this issue. I am using the supplied mono mini plug to rca jack that comes with the Micro iDSD to connect the iDSD through a coax rca to rca cable and then into an rca to mini plug adapter into the DAP. I don't get it. It would seem that the iDSD has a more difficult time locking on to the PCM stream (192khz/24 bit) from the Fiio. By the way, I am not having connectivity issues with the optical spdif output from my AK100. Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 

 I am having similar issues with digital coax. connectivity running from my iBasso Dx90 to the iDSD. Slight movement of the rig leads to drop out and I need to re-seat the connection to iFi coax input. in before sound is restored. I'm using the coax. connector supplied with my DX90 and connections seem secure on both ends.
  
 ANY help would be greatly appreciated as this is the only troubling aspect of an otherwise terrific synergy between the DAC and DAP.


----------



## hifijunky

lorywiv said:


> I am having similar issues with digital coax. connectivity running from my iBasso Dx90 to the iDSD. Slight movement of the rig leads to drop out and I need to re-seat the connection to iFi coax input. in before sound is restored. I'm using the coax. connector supplied with my DX90 and connections seem secure on both ends.
> 
> ANY help would be greatly appreciated as this is the only troubling aspect of an otherwise terrific synergy between the DAC and DAP.


 
 Thanks, glad I'm not the only one!


----------



## LoryWiv

> lorywiv said:
> 
> 
> > The connectors appear physically tight and secure on both ends.
> ...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

THE ifi dsd micro plays the he6ok but not like they should be. Its a little brite and thin.  inks loud though. I do not own other he models to comPare.


----------



## hifijunky

I guess there's a chance it may be related to the "full initial charge" requirement recommended by iFi Audio as audio dropouts were one of the listed issues that could result from using the device without a full charge. However, I left my unit on the charger until the blue LED went off (approximately 3 hours), so it would seem I followed the instructions. iFi strongly recommends a full 24 hours of charge time, but when I read further they indicate that high current charging changes to a "top off" charge once the blue LED goes off. Anyway, I have only used it for about an hour or so after initial charge so I wouldn't think that's the issue.


----------



## hifijunky

So, I recharged my Micro iDSD from my laptop until the blue LED went out and retested. Same results, as expected. Loss of PCM audio unless I hold the Fiio in just the right position. Hopefully, there's a fix for this as I use the Fiio DAP fairly often on business and vacation trips.


----------



## Dixter

Hey... check it out...  I guess the 3rd time was a charm...
  
Product Registration Please fill in the following information
Your Product Is Successfully Registered  
 Now what ???


----------



## john57

dixter said:


> Hey... check it out...  I guess the 3rd time was a charm...
> 
> Product Registration Please fill in the following information
> Your Product Is Successfully Registered
> Now what ???


 
 You wait.


----------



## LoryWiv

hifijunky said:


> So, I recharged my Micro iDSD from my laptop until the blue LED went out and retested. Same results, as expected. Loss of PCM audio unless I hold the Fiio in just the right position. Hopefully, there's a fix for this as I use the Fiio DAP fairly often on business and vacation trips.


 
 Have you opened a ticket with iFi support?


----------



## Reignfire

Just a few questions, friends: What is the polarity switch for? When should i use the positive and negative polarity? Also, when should i use the Direct output? How about the Preamp output? Thanks guys!


----------



## john57

reignfire said:


> Just a few questions, friends: What is the polarity switch for? When should i use the positive and negative polarity? Also, when should i use the Direct output? How about the Preamp output? Thanks guys!


 
 The absolute phase is to correct recordings that are out out phase. This is not the same as stereo phase. Sometimes backup music to a solo are recorded out of phase to bring out the solo. Sometimes somewhere in the playback chain the phase can be inverted by the electronics. Some users can not hear any difference with the phase switch.


----------



## hifijunky

lorywiv said:


> Have you opened a ticket with iFi support?


 
 Not yet, but I will later today. I'll post my findings.


----------



## BillsonChang007

john57 said:


> The absolute phase is to correct recordings that are out out phase. This is not the same as stereo phase. Sometimes backup music to a solo are recorded out of phase to bring out the solo. Sometimes somewhere in the playback chain the phase can be inverted by the electronics. Some users can not hear any difference with the phase switch.




I can't either. No matter how hard I tried to focus and different genre, tracks, different file format, 44.1/16 to 192/24 to DSD, I can't hear any difference IMO


----------



## knorris908

billsonchang007 said:


> I can't either. No matter how hard I tried to focus and different genre, tracks, different file format, 44.1/16 to 192/24 to DSD, I can't hear any difference IMO


 

 Might depend on the album and how it was recorded?  I just heard a difference on a DSD of a POLICE album, but not a thing changed on an EAGLES album....


----------



## Reignfire

lorywiv said:


> I am having similar issues with digital coax. connectivity running from my iBasso Dx90 to the iDSD. Slight movement of the rig leads to drop out and I need to re-seat the connection to iFi coax input. in before sound is restored. I'm using the coax. connector supplied with my DX90 and connections seem secure on both ends.
> 
> ANY help would be greatly appreciated as this is the only troubling aspect of an otherwise terrific synergy between the DAC and DAP.


 
 I never had that issue....until last night. Damn.


----------



## BillsonChang007

knorris908 said:


> Might depend on the album and how it was recorded?  I just heard a difference on a DSD of a POLICE album, but not a thing changed on an EAGLES album....




Probably. 

Waiting for the redeem code for the DSD album from Karina


----------



## chawya22

billsonchang007 said:


> Probably.
> 
> Waiting for the redeem code for the DSD album from Karina


 

 I'm waiting for my password from Laura. I imagine a handful of concierge and 512 members might take awhile.


----------



## BillsonChang007

chawya22 said:


> I'm waiting for my password from Laura. I imagine a handful of concierge and 512 members might take awhile.


 
 Just checked my mail and I received the code! 
  
 Downloading it now.


----------



## chawya22

billsonchang007 said:


> Just checked my mail and I received the code!
> 
> Downloading it now.


 

 Me too


----------



## Triodemode

Just finished listening to the David Elias download and am very happy with the results both musically and sonically, especially since it was free. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Are members here allowed to critique the recording's SQ or would that be considered rude?


----------



## knorris908

billsonchang007 said:


> Just checked my mail and I received the code!
> 
> Downloading it now.


 
  
  


chawya22 said:


> Me too


 

 So how did you make out?  Is it what you expected, or different?
  
 Fingers crossed for you both.


----------



## Esprit

ifi audio said:


> Owners of non-Octa Adopter units are not in the iCLUB of course.


 
 Prospective customers of the iFi mini ?


----------



## BillsonChang007

My local internet only allow max speed of 150kbps download so I have just finished track one and immediately I set up my rig and hit play. First impression is DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! #Worth everyone should give these a try!


----------



## Triodemode

Had to change the songs tagging using Mp3tag as info was missing/incorrect and the album art was missing on several songs, a very pleasurable listen.  The subsonic bass notes on Morning light was exceptionally well presented.


----------



## iFi audio

esprit said:


> Prospective customers of the iFi mini ?


 

 Hi,
  
 The Mini iDSD is a little further off.
  
 The iFi retro is the next one to be launched and the first several hundred customers may be invited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We are working on this at the moment.
  
 Watch this space!


----------



## knorris908

I've been using the IDSD Micro primarily as a home-based audio component since I received it, and in that capacity I have no suggestions for improvement. (Yet... It's our nature to push boundaries, is it not?) 

However, this weekend I started traveling with the iDSD Micro as the base of a "mobile stack" in various combinations. While I was VERY impressed with the capabilities of the iDSD as both DAC and amp using the ONKYO HD APP for our 4S and 5 iPhones as well as original generation iPad and iPad Air tablets, it was extremely limiting due to the fixed, (and SMALL) amount of memory capacity the apples had. I'm sure this isn't an issue for Android users as most devices that I read about have additional storage capacity in one manner or another available. But Apple users are kind of stuck as each of the typical DSF files gouges large chunks of available storage. You're lucky to get a whole album or two before you're running out of space. (Remember we have photos, videos, documents, and APPs taking up space as well!)

So that lead me to my second future design suggestion: "USB on the go". Functionality built-in to the iDSD itself! Best of all, the case is large enough to support a full-sized SD card which would be much faster to access data than most Micro SD chips, and infinitely CHEAPER for consumers to buy. And it would be able to be improved on as you go, with a phase One where the data dumps are able to take place between listening sessions, and then in phase Two, it could be "on the fly" storage transfers allowing users to play directly through the USB connection. The Apple CCK we need to connect to the iDSD is used to transfer files(photos) on to and off of the iPhones and iPads anyway, so it shouldn't be hard-blocked from working. (I'm assuming that feat would be MUCH more difficult and would require heavier Apple collaboration or at least research.). Just a thought.

My first suggestion might be implemented with a simple firmware update:
Now that I've drained the battery a few times, I can see that it would be beneficial to have some charge feedback beyond the "time is almost up, you're screwed for the next three hours of this flight" red power status light. Perhaps when the unit is turned on, or via some other trigger, we could at least get a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 estimate by blinking the blue light? 1 blink = 1/4, "top it off before you leave the hotel, or you're going to be in for a silent flight most of the way." 2 blinks = "okay for short flights, but you" want to find an outlet to charge-up as much as possible while waiting at the airport or between connecting flights." 3 blinks = "you're good to go for the better part of your day in ECO or NORMAL modes."

Third idea, an iFi-specific app that will showcase the strengths of the iDSD Micro or Nano when used with Apple or Android devices. I don't know of any app that does DXD, so you might be the first!


Again, just some thoughts that might make the use of the iDSD more "transparent" for the frequent traveller. NOT complaints. I love this thing and it is easily the best money I have spent on audiophile-grade equipment.

Thank you for listening, and I can't wait to hear what YOU guys come up with!

Most important of all, ENJOY THE MUSIC!

Ken N.


----------



## Dixter

Anyone have any success in purchasing the item below from the USA??
  
 would love to have this one... 
  
  
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> Marvellous pianist Josei-san’s Quad-DSD256 recording – major download alert!
> Just a heads-up for anyone looking for a new Quad DSD-256 recording:
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/marvellous-pianist-josei-sans-quad-dsd256-recording-major-download-alert/
> ...


----------



## chawya22

knorris908 said:


> So how did you make out?  Is it what you expected, or different?
> 
> Fingers crossed for you both.


 

 Sonically, the recordings are extremely good. As was mentioned, Tags and Artwork needed to be corrected or added but that didn't detract from the positive listening experience. Thank you David Elias, ifi and Concierge Laura.


----------



## knorris908

dixter said:


>


 

 Hi Dixter.  I'm in NJ and it worked for me.
  
 Granted it's a pain if you don't read Japanese and you can't really fill-out all the info properly if you don't use Hiragama, but I did enough to get the transaction to go through just using plain "western" characters.  
  
  
 The 5+GB zip file link was made available within minutes, and the download is running now, at an estimated 1 hour 20 minutes currently downloading at a rate of 1.3 MB/sec.
  
*CONFIRMATION E-MAIL:  (No translation)*
  
 Ken Norris様

 楽曲(「I See You While Playing The Piano (11.2MHz dsd + mp3)」11点 3,500円(税込) )の購入が完了いたしました。
 このたびはOTOTOYにてお買い上げありがとうございます。

 ただいま、サーバ内でダウンロードファイルの用意をしております。
 ダウンロードキュー番号は 27,478 です。
 (5.6MHz DSD(DSD128)のような総量が数ギガバイトを越えるものには
 一時間以上かかることもありますがご容赦ください。)

 ダウンロードファイルが用意でき次第、ご登録のメールアドレス、
 そしてOTOTOY上のメッセージでダウンロードURLをお知らせいたします。
 Twitter登録の方にはOTOTOY上のメッセージのみでお知らせいたします。
 いましばらくお待ちください。

 ──────────────────────────
 OTOTOY　http://ototoy.jp/
 お問い合わせ：info@ototoy.jp

 オトトイ株式会社
 〒150-0046 東京都渋谷区松濤2-11-11 松涛伊藤ビル
  
*CONFIRMATION E-MAIL:  (Rough translation)*
  
 Friend Ken Norris,

 Purchase was completed ((tax included) 3,500 yen "I See You While Playing The Piano (11.2MHz dsd + mp3)" 11 points) music.
 Thank you Thank you for purchasing at OTOTOY.

 I'm home, we are ready for download file in the server.
 Download queue number is 27,478.
 To that total (5.6MHz DSD such as (DSD128) exceeds the number of gigabytes
 It may take more than one hour, but please forgive me. )

 As soon as ready to download files, e-mail address of your registration,
 And I will inform you the download URL in the message of OTOTOY on.
 I will inform you in the only message of OTOTOY on Twitter towards the registration.
 Please wait for a while now.

 ──────────────────────────
 OTOTOY http://ototoy.jp/
 Contact: info@ototoy.jp

 The day before yesterday, Inc.
 150-0046 Shibuya-ku, Tokyo 2-11-11 Shoto Shoto Ito Building


----------



## DanBa

knorris908 said:


> I've been using the IDSD Micro primarily as a home-based audio component since I received it, and in that capacity I have no suggestions for improvement. (Yet... It's our nature to push boundaries, is it not?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There is an Android app "USB Audio Player PRO" (UAPP) that can play DXD files and output 24/352.8 PCM streams to a Micro iDSD or a Nano iDSD.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5295#post_10843369
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2985#post_9760421
  
 In fact, UAPP can even play 32/384 files and output 32/384 PCM streams to a 32/384 USB DAC. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5520#post_10969410
  

  
  
 UAPP can also play DSD music files and output DSD over PCM streams to a DSD USB DAC.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5415#post_10918719
  

  
  
 UAPP can play huge DSD / DXD music files stored on a SMB-compliant network access storage server or on a portable wireless or non-wireless 2TB hard drive.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694204/tablets-with-usb-audio-that-can-handle-large-hard-drives/15#post_10691901
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5325#post_10867634
  

  

  

  
  
 UAPP can run on most Android devices, even on a cheap $40 Azpen A700 tablet.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3465#post_9991738


----------



## cattlethief

danba said:


> There is an Android app "USB Audio Player PRO" (UAPP) that can play DXD files and output 24/352.8 PCM streams to a Micro iDSD or a Nano iDSD.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5295#post_10843369
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2985#post_9760421
> 
> ...


 
 Just spotted that cool interconnect,just what I need!can you please tell me where it was sourced,cheers.


----------



## Turrican2

cattlethief said:


> Just spotted that cool interconnect,just what I need!can you please tell me where it was sourced,cheers.




Forza audioworks, just contact Matthew via the online contact form, he's usuakly very quick to respond.


----------



## Dixter

I registered my Octo Adopter and have been told... Nope...  not in the iclub...    are there others that bought the Octo and are now being refused....
  
 very strange way for a company to act this way....   and yes, I have written to them now 3 times... no luck... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> *A big welcome!*
> Dear All,
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WNBC

Interesting.  You are the original owner and you bought one of the first 512 units from an authorized dealer?  Yours should have a red serial number.  If you have met all of these criteria then I don't know what's up.  Your unit came with the T-shirt and sticker?  You may have already explained this and I missed those posts.
  
  
 Quote:


> I registered my Octo Adopter and have been told... Nope...  not in the iclub...    are there others that bought the Octo and are now being refused....





> very strange way for a company to act this way....   and yes, I have written to them now 3 times... no luck...


----------



## Turrican2

If you are an octa-adopter, you'll see a yellow iFi club slip in the box. You'll also see it clearly states registration MUST be completed prior to August 31st.


----------



## iFi audio

turrican2 said:


> If you are an octa-adopter, you'll see a yellow iFi club slip in the box. You'll also see it clearly states registration MUST be completed prior to August 31st.


 

 Hi all,
  
 Further to this, we extended the deadline from end of August to end of September as summer holidays, people were away etc etc...so all Octa-Adopters should have enrolled by the end of Sept deadline.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Dixter

This issue isn't a concern that you can't opt into a club or not....  its an issue where you begin to wonder about if you ever do need customer service are you going to get the run around like I'm experiencing here....
  
 This is what I have...  a idsd I bought,  it came with a T-shirt in a Tube ( wont fit ), the box has a octopus sticker on the top that says Octo Adopter on it, there is a gold color card inside of the box that says Iclub exclusive on it and to register the product...  ( I did register, more than once ) and yes it does have a red sticker on the bottom with the serial number on it... 
  
 At first I thought that considering I had registered the product that it was just an automatic your in the  " iclub "    but then ifi sent to the group here that everyone was to be assigned a concierge and so I looked for an email and found none and wrote ifi asking about it....  still no response....  so I registered the unit again to make sure it was done...  and the site said thanks... it was done.
  
 Then I get an email from ifi, signed "cocoy"  that said thanks for registering your product,  I then replied and said thanks and can you send the password for the song downloads...  she says, no
 that is for members only and if I have a question to let her know.... I told her my story thinking that she could take care of the issue, should not have been an issue... she tells me to create a ticket and I finally am giving up as that would have been at least three emails by now and still no fix....and Vincent is now asking me to resend those tickets... 
  
 again,  I can afford to buy my own music so thats not the issue,   the issue is I have lost trust with ifi's support team...   sorry if this sounds sour as I just got another email that says we can't find your emails...   well OK, but they obviously have on file my serial number and they obviously know that it is a Octo Adopter but they still have not fixed the issue and I'm tired of messing with it.
  
 If ifi can't fix the issue on their side then its a shame and obviously they should know if the unit is a Octo Adopter or not...  I'm dropping the issue as of now....   live and learn


----------



## Dixter

Hey guys.... just in case you wanted to get some of David Elias songs in DSD to try out your Idsd Micro here is a site ( Oppo )  that has some for free...   enjoy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.oppodigital.com/hra/dsd-by-davidelias.aspx


----------



## Reignfire

has anyone tried using a portable DAP+iDSD Micro to power speakers?


----------



## iFi audio

danba said:


> There is an Android app "USB Audio Player PRO" (UAPP) that can play DXD files and output 24/352.8 PCM streams to a Micro iDSD or a Nano iDSD.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5295#post_10843369
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2985#post_9760421
> 
> ...


 

 iPhone 6 Plus & Micro iDSD  
 Hi,
  
 As you are sharing pics, here are some of the iPhone 6 Plus with the micro iDSD. The pair are perfectly matched.
  


  




  


  


 If you are at the HiFi News Show next weekend, you can catch this perfect pair on the iFi headphone booth in the Sandringham building or if you venture upstairs to Sandringham 9, you can see the full Retro system belting out the tunes.


----------



## knorris908

ifi audio said:


> iPhone 6 Plus & Micro iDSD
> Hi,
> 
> As you are sharing pics, here are some of the iPhone 6 Plus with the micro iDSD. The pair are perfectly matched.
> ...


 

 Exciting news, and thank you for the photos!
  
 If you don't mind, what Apple APP are you using with the I{hone 6?  The Onkyo one or have you found another/better-suited one to handle the DSD and DXD files?


----------



## Dixter

The app is Kaisser Tone...   plays DSD files...     another very good app is Neutron ....


----------



## DanBa

ifi audio said:


> iPhone 6 Plus & Micro iDSD
> Hi,
> 
> As you are sharing pics, here are some of the iPhone 6 Plus with the micro iDSD. The pair are perfectly matched.
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks, but I switched from iPhones to Android devices as soon as USB audio has been enabled on the Samsung Galaxy S3.
  
 Hopefully, Apple won't disable their CCK-related USB audio to preserve their MFI program.
  
  

  
  
_"I installed iOS5 beta 3 on my iPhone 4 and FINALLY I can plug the USB Camera Connection Kit with no "Unsupported Device" message, and it works great with any USB in/out audio device (power limitations seem to be similar to the iPads). 
 This is a whole new world for mobile recording. I hope USB audio stays enabled in the final iOS5 release.
  
 UPDATE: this feature has been disabled in iOS 5.0 beta since beta 7, including the final released version.
 CCK-compatibility for anything else than iPad has been deliberately disabled by Apple."_
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/494521/ipod-iphone-output-digital-audio-via-apple-camera-connector-for-ipod/60#post_8207631


----------



## knorris908

danba said:


> Thanks, but I switched from iPhones to Android devices as soon as USB audio has been enabled on the Samsung Galaxy S3.
> 
> Hopefully, Apple won't disable their CCK-related USB audio to preserve their MFI program.
> 
> ...


 
 Just so that you have direct confirmation, I am listening to my iPhone 4S while working through my iFi iDSD Micro via the Camera connection kit and the blue USB cable included with the iDSD Micro...
  
 It also works with my iPhone 5 with just the lightning CCK plugged-directly into the phone and iDSD Micro.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, I was wondering what the confusion was about Apple products and iFi DSD.  I haven't completely decided on the iP6+ but the ability to use it with iDSD was going to be part of the decision.
  
  
 Quote:


knorris908 said:


> Just so that you have direct confirmation, I am listening to my iPhone 4S while working through my iFi iDSD Micro via the Camera connection kit and the blue USB cable included with the iDSD Micro...
> 
> It also works with my iPhone 5 with just the lightning CCK plugged-directly into the phone and iDSD Micro.


----------



## iFi audio

dixter said:


> The app is Kaisser Tone...   plays DSD files...     another very good app is Neutron ....


 

 Correct.
  
 Looks like this:
  


  


 Kaiser Tone is capable of PCM/DSD128, just like Onkyo HF Player. Worth a try but we found it a bit glitchy sometimes. Maybe a new update is out soon will fix these minor bugs.
  
 So to recap:
  
 Onkyo HF Player = PCM/DSD128
 Hibiki = DSD256
 Capriccio = PCM
 Kaiser Tone = PCM/DSD128


----------



## tmac7balla

ifi audio said:


> iPhone 6 Plus & Micro iDSD
> Hi,
> 
> As you are sharing pics, here are some of the iPhone 6 Plus with the micro iDSD. The pair are perfectly matched.
> ...


 
 This looks amazing! It makes waiting for my 6 plus coming in the mail that much harder...


----------



## Amalz

What is the best cable to connect the iDSS Micro to AK100II?


----------



## knorris908

amalz said:


> What is the best cable to connect the iDSS Micro to AK100II?


 

 My vote is for a digital connections through a short cable like this one.  Waiting for mine to arrive!
  
http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=56
  
 Poor-man's version that I am using now is a Mono 1/8 jack to RCA adapter and one side of the RCA cables that shipped with the iDSD Micro....  
  
 Klunky, but it sounds great until my interconnect cable arrives!


----------



## Amalz

knorris908 said:


> My vote is for a digital connections through a short cable like this one.  Waiting for mine to arrive!
> 
> http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=56
> 
> ...


 
 But the cable you bought it not works with my AK100II im right?
  
 and what is the diffrent between ANALOG & Digital interconnect cable?


----------



## DJBaila

amalz said:


> What is the best cable to connect the iDSS Micro to AK100II?


 
 I use this one with my AK100: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C5DY1JQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Amalz

djbaila said:


> I use this one with my AK100: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C5DY1JQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> Great Set-Up, Can i find this cable for custom?


----------



## DJBaila

Just look for "FiiO L12S"


----------



## Amalz

djbaila said:


> Just look for "FiiO L12S"




I think I'm going with L12S, Thanks 

GUY'S please answer me

The RCA out in the iDSD is using for external DAC,Amp and pre-amp?
And if I plug the iDSD to pre-amp it's give's more power to iDSD?


----------



## d1sturb3d

amalz said:


> I think I'm going with L12S, Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


the RCA is the analog out so you may connect this to your amplifier..making your iDSD as pre-amp..


----------



## DJBaila

amalz said:


> I think I'm going with L12S, Thanks
> 
> GUY'S please answer me
> 
> ...




RCA out when switch is in "Direct" is a fixed analog line out (Use this mode to connect to another amplifier), when switch is in "pre-amp" the volume knob will control the volume of the RCA out (you can use this mode to power some speakers, and control the volume with the volume knob).


----------



## Amalz

d1sturb3d said:


> the RCA is the analog out so you may connect this to your amplifier..making your iDSD as pre-amp..


 
  
  


djbaila said:


> RCA out when switch is in "Direct" is a fixed analog line out (Use this mode to connect to another amplifier), when switch is in "pre-amp" the volume knob will control the volume of the RCA out (you can use this mode to power some speakers, and control the volume with the volume knob).


 
  
  
  
  That's what i stand from your words
  
 1- That's mean the RCA analog it's not for using portable AMP/DAC to connect to DAP
 2- And if i want to connect the idsd to any DAP use the optical and usb
  
 Right

  
 And if i use my NFB-28 as Pre amp to iDSD it's give's more power for iDSD?


----------



## maricius

amalz said:


> That's what i stand from your words
> 
> 1- That's mean the RCA analog it's not for using portable AMP/DAC to connect to DAP
> 2- And if i want to connect the idsd to any DAP use the optical and usb
> ...




iFi iDSD is a portable DAC/amp. RCA analog is for iDSD DAC only output direct 2V or up to preamp 5.5V. It you want to use another preamp/DAC to iDSD you connect it through the 3.5mm hole in the front.


----------



## Amalz

maricius said:


> iFi iDSD is a portable DAC/amp. RCA analog is for iDSD DAC only output direct 2V or up to preamp 5.5V. It you want to use another preamp/DAC to iDSD you connect it through the 3.5mm hole in the front.


 
 What is the cable for use another preamp/DAC to iDSD? how can i connect 3.5mm to another preamp and extrenal dac !!!!!


----------



## d1sturb3d

amalz said:


> What is the cable for use another preamp/DAC to iDSD? how can i connect 3.5mm to another preamp and extrenal dac !!!!!



 



depends on your DAC/PRE..most likely your DAC/PRE has RCA analog outs..so to connect to iDSD..you need RCA - 3.5mm cable


----------



## Amalz

d1sturb3d said:


> amalz said:
> 
> 
> > What is the cable for use another preamp/DAC to iDSD? how can i connect 3.5mm to another preamp and extrenal dac !!!!!
> ...


 
 My preamp it's have RCA and Balanced analog 
 Balanced give : 5Watt
 RCA give : 2Watt
  
 So if i wnat to connect the preamp via RCA use  RCA - 3.5mm cable, And if i want use Balanced cuz it's give more watt what i use cable?


----------



## d1sturb3d

amalz said:


> My preamp it's have RCA and Balanced analog
> Balanced give : 5Watt
> RCA give : 2Watt
> 
> So if i wnat to connect the preamp via RCA use  RCA - 3.5mm cable, And if i want use Balanced cuz it's give more watt what i use cable?



 


well you have no choice but to use a balance adaptor to 3.5mm..though I think that is not ok or recommended..use the RCA instead to be safe


----------



## Amalz

d1sturb3d said:


> amalz said:
> 
> 
> > My preamp it's have RCA and Balanced analog
> ...


 
  
 Is this RCA 3.5 good?
 http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Male-2-Male-Adapter/dp/B004YEBK66


----------



## iFi audio

Public Release – 2 x David Elias DSD tracks 
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/public-release-2-x-david-elias-dsd-tracks/

  






 Following on from the iFi iCLUB DSD album last week, as promised, two tracks are available to all.
 As with the previous recordings, these are all 100% DSD, having been recorded, mixed and mastered directly on the Sony Sonoma DSD Workstation provided by Gus Skinas at SuperAudioCenter.com.
 We hope you like them. Thank you again to David for his great work on the DSD recording front!


----------



## iFi audio

amalz said:


> I think I'm going with L12S, Thanks
> 
> GUY'S please answer me
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 This should shed more light:
  
 iDSD micro connections and modes of use:
  
 1) DAC/Headphone Amplifier
  
 • Digital input via USB or SPDIF from Computer, Smartphone, DAP, Streamer etc.
 • Output to Headphone from front 6.3mm Jack
 • Set PC/DAP etc. Volume to max, control Volume from iDSD micro Volume Control
  
  
 2) Headphone Amplifier
 • 3.5mm Headphone output from Smartphone or DAP to front 3.5mm input Jack
 • Alternatively any unbalanced line source with 1-2V output levels using a suitable adapter to 3.5mm
 • Output to Headphone from front 6.3mm Jack
 • Set PC/DAP etc. Volume to max, control Volume from iDSD micro Volume Control
  
  
 3) DAC/Preamp
 • Digital input via USB or SPDIF from Computer, Smartphone, DAP, Streamer etc.
 • Output from RCA Sockets to power amplifier or powered speakers
 • Output switch set to preamplifier
 - control Volume from micro iDSD's Volume Control
  
  
 4) DAC
 • Digital input via USB or SPDIF from Computer, Smartphone, DAP, Streamer etc.
 • Output from RCA Sockets to preamplifier, integrated amplifier/receiver or powered speakers with their own volume controls
 • Output switch set to Line
 - control Volume from preamplifier, integrated amplifier/receiver or powered speakers Volume Control

 5) USB to SPDIF Converter
 • Digital input via USB from Computer, Smartphone, DAP, Streamer etc.
 • Output from SPDIF RCA Socket to DAC, AV receiver etc.
  
  
 In some cases more than one may be combined.
  
 For example, the iDSD micro may be used as a DAC connected to the analogue inputs of an AV receiver but for movie playback may be used as USB-SPDIF converter feeding the AV receiver's Digital Input AND one may at the same time use the iDSD micro as DAC/Headamp for Headphones.
  
 Further, if several amplifiers are connected in series the one that determines the final output power is the final amplifier. So if we feed (say) a 2 Watt Amplifier output into a 4 Watt Amplifier the final power is still just 4 Watt. The 2 Watts of the first amplifier are not used BUT the noise and distortion of the first amplifier will be added to that of the second.
  
 Driving one Amp from the Amp output of another Amp (or DAP/DAC+ HPAMP) is often called “double amping” and is generally considered “a bad thing” and best avoided. We strongly advise against this with the micro iDSD as damage may ensue. Only something bad can come from this and at best, nothing blows up and you just get poor quality sound.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## john57

When I heard the Guitar Sonatas by Ricardo Gallen at nativeDSD I was surprised by the difference between the 64fs and the 256fs DSD tracks. It was a eye opener by the difference in SQ


----------



## diamondears

Sorry if I missed it in the longish thread, but it's not sure to me if the micro iDSD is portable (battery powered). It is portable, right?


----------



## tmac7balla

diamondears said:


> Sorry if I missed it in the longish thread, but it's not sure to me if the micro iDSD is portable (battery powered). It is portable, right?




Yes it is


----------



## BillsonChang007

IMO, it is a "somewhat portable DAC/amp" with desktop quality


----------



## diamondears

Thanks. Thought so, but not quite sure.

Do you guys know it's batterry life with a full powered smartphone? Their website says it charges iPhone in full 2x!)


----------



## diamondears

And btw, I've got the iDSD nano. Do you guys think it would be a step up in terms of SQ INLY to get the micro iDSD instead of getting the iCAN nano (to stack with iDSD nano)? I've got the feeling the iDSD nano and iCAN nano is just the micro iDSD cut in half..hehe...at least in terms of SQ. 

IDSD micro is very affordable but of course getting an iCAN nano for less would be nice and if paired with iDSD nano would give SQ equal to iDSD micro.


----------



## CrocCap

anyone know where these are in stock?  todd the vinyl junkie has had my order for more than 2 weeks, and its been on back order for a while now.


----------



## john57

croccap said:


> anyone know where these are in stock?  todd the vinyl junkie has had my order for more than 2 weeks, and its been on back order for a while now. pat


 
 The micro seems to be on back order. The wait time on Music Direct web site states four to six weeks.  If you wanted one right now Amazon third party has them for over $1k. It seems that if you have the virtue of patience you will get it.


----------



## jexby

diamondears said:


> And btw, I've got the iDSD nano. Do you guys think it would be a step up in terms of SQ INLY to get the micro iDSD instead of getting the iCAN nano (to stack with iDSD nano)? I've got the feeling the iDSD nano and iCAN nano is just the micro iDSD cut in half..hehe...at least in terms of SQ.
> 
> IDSD micro is very affordable but of course getting an iCAN nano for less would be nice and if paired with iDSD nano would give SQ equal to iDSD micro.




Having owned nano iDSD but not iCAN, and now micro iDSD-
I have no clue how you can assume the above statements Are valid.

the nano does not have a dual mono DAC like micro, or built in iPureifier.
iCAN doesn't have the power or IEM match feature of micro.

Give the cheaper pairing a try, but I'd bet the micro blows it away.


----------



## diamondears

jexby said:


> Having owned nano iDSD but not iCAN, and now micro iDSD-
> I have no clue how you can assume the above statements Are valid.
> 
> the nano does not have a dual mono DAC like micro, or built in iPureifier.
> ...




Thanks. Just a feeling...not even a guess...heheI know features are different...

But I'm really interested on impressions between iDSD nano+iCAN nano VS iDSD micro. If anybody has had or heard them, please help.


----------



## 7cents

diamondears said:


> Thanks. Just a feeling...not even a guess...heheI know features are different...
> 
> But I'm really interested on impressions between iDSD nano+iCAN nano VS iDSD micro. If anybody has had or heard them, please help.


 

 +1, me too ..
  
 I guess many micro iDSD owners are using iFi previous product like nano iDSD or iCAN, I hope they might at least try different combo setup.


----------



## tf1216

I have tried the Nano iDSD, Micro iDSD, and the "Stack" with my IEMs.  I was very happy with all three solutions.  I need to spend more time adjusting the stack to get output levels correct.  I will do that at some point.  The "Stack" is an awesome desktop solution with any headphone which many people have concluded in the past.  The Nano and Micro both do a superb job with my IEMs.  I can easily live with either.  I have decided to use the Micro because I love the 3D Holographic feature.  It works extremely well for me.


----------



## knorris908

croccap said:


> anyone know where these are in stock?  todd the vinyl junkie has had my order for more than 2 weeks, and its been on back order for a while now.


 

 I was able to get mine within 2 days from Signature Sound.  Spoke to the owner, Rich Brkich, and not only was he extremely helpful and answered all my questions, he even told me about stuff he doesn't carry and suggested other places I might find what I was looking for.  Great service, 15-day return policy minus shipping, and knowledgeable.
  
 Had the Micro iDSD in stock, and was holding mine in hand when we were speaking and shipped it VERY quickly.
  
 Authorized dealer referred to by iFi when I spoke to them.  Hope this helps!
  
www.sigsound.com  Phone: 315-622-4137
  
 EDIT:  I forgot to mention that they are in Liverpool NY, U.S.A.
  
 Ken N.


----------



## knorris908

diamondears said:


> And btw, I've got the iDSD nano. Do you guys think it would be a step up in terms of SQ INLY to get the micro iDSD instead of getting the iCAN nano (to stack with iDSD nano)? I've got the feeling the iDSD nano and iCAN nano is just the micro iDSD cut in half..hehe...at least in terms of SQ.
> 
> IDSD micro is very affordable but of course getting an iCAN nano for less would be nice and if paired with iDSD nano would give SQ equal to iDSD micro.


 
  
  


diamondears said:


> Thanks. Thought so, but not quite sure.
> 
> Do you guys know it's batterry life with a full powered smartphone? Their website says it charges iPhone in full 2x!)


 

 Fair questions.  New owner, so my breadth of data to pull from isn't as great as others, but I have seen the following:
  
 *  Can't comment on the sound quality DIFFERENCE since I've never owned the NANOs, but I can tell you that the iDSD Micro sounds better to me than the iCAN setup that I heard while shopping around.
 *  The battery life seems to vary based on the power required to process the files.  Basic MP3s seem to take less power than 11.2MHz Quad DFF "hi-res files"
 *  The battery life is also highly-dependent on the headphones.  HD-650s driven in TURBO take much more power than my Koss Porta Pros driven in ECO mode.
 *  The battery life with the Koss Porta Pro headphones or VMODA Bass Freq iems last long enough for flights from Newark NJ Airport to Los Angeles CA airport and I recharge in the evening for the next day.
 *  I use the 3D feature almost constantly, but only use the Bass Boost with some "Top 40" music or J-POP.  Classical and Ballads don't need it for my ears' preference.
  
 Not an informed statement, but just an assumption for you to consider.
 *  iDSD Micro = 1 big honkin' battery & good run-time.  (Takes a long time to fully-charge from flat.  Like as much as 12 hours long via USB charging from USB AC adapter.) + the phone/DAP's battery. (2 Total)
 *  iDSD Nano + iCAN Nano + Phone/DAP = *3* batteries to charge.  More likely (For me) that I will forget/miss charging one and have it run out of steam during a trip. 
 *  If I  manage to run my Phone/DAP battery flat, I can plug it to the iDSD Micro for a quick charge. (No extended downtime if no access to an electrical socket.)
 *  iPurifier is built-in to the iDSD Micro, so yet another accessory you don't need to buy/keep track of.
 *  My laptop bag is fairly-large, but giving-up the space required for the dimensions of a Nano "Stack" is more painful than the longer, Micro Single unit.
  
 I hope that these observations and considerations help!
  
  
 Ken N.


----------



## knorris908

knorris908 said:


> I was able to get mine within 2 days from Signature Sound.  Spoke to the owner, Rich Brkich, and not only was he extremely helpful and answered all my questions, he even told me about stuff he doesn't carry and suggested other places I might find what I was looking for.  Great service, 15-day return policy minus shipping, and knowledgeable.
> 
> Had the Micro iDSD in stock, and was holding mine in hand when we were speaking and shipped it VERY quickly.
> 
> ...


 

 BTW:  Rich just let me know that he only has one more iDSD Micro in stock, so grab it while you can CroCap!


----------



## diamondears

knorris908 said:


> Fair questions.  New owner, so my breadth of data to pull from isn't as great as others, but I have seen the following:
> 
> *  Can't comment on the sound quality DIFFERENCE since I've never owned the NANOs, but I can tell you that the iDSD Micro sounds better to me than the iCAN setup that I heard while shopping around.
> *  The battery life seems to vary based on the power required to process the files.  Basic MP3s seem to take less power than 11.2MHz Quad DFF "hi-res files"
> ...




Thanks for those comments. Guess I'll get the iDSD micro, my iDSD nano can just wait for the iCAN nano a couple of days later...hehe can't resist the itch...


----------



## WNBC

Also check Avatar Acoustics, another iFi authorized distributor, based out of Georgia.  http://www.avataracoustics.com/contact_us.html


----------



## knorris908

wnbc said:


> Also check Avatar Acoustics, another iFi authorized distributor, based out of Georgia.  http://www.avataracoustics.com/contact_us.html


 
  
 +1 for WNBC's suggestion of Avatar Acoustics.
  
 I can tell you that while they didn't have the iFi iDSD Micro in stock when I was looking, James Haner over there was awesome, and very helpful.  He also pointed me to Signature rather than wait.  Great customer service at Avatar Acoustics that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to people.  (Actually, I guess that I just did...)


----------



## tmac7balla

croccap said:


> anyone know where these are in stock?  todd the vinyl junkie has had my order for more than 2 weeks, and its been on back order for a while now.



Shane at night and day audio is where I got mine. Amazing customer service. His shop is located in NC, but he will also ship your product to you as well if you prefer.

Night & Day Audio
Durham, NC 27713
919-632-2569
sales@nightanddayaudio.com
Shane Sangster
http://www.nightanddayaudio.com


----------



## CrocCap

alright, snagged up the last one from sigsound. too bad today is friday and it too late for them to ship today, but at least they had one in stock.


----------



## knorris908

croccap said:


> alright, snagged up the last one from sigsound. too bad today is friday and it too late for them to ship today, but at least they had one in stock.


 

 Congrats!  I'm sure that Rich will get it to you quickly.  You're going to LOVE it!  I was just out on our back porch talking with my wife about all this "audiophile stuff", and the tracks from Josei-San that iFi promotes came on.  My wife stopped and listened for a moment, and then exclaimed, "it sounds like someone is playing a real piano in our loft!"  SCORE!!!  Home run.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I still have not been able to get the quad-DSD256 files to play through JRiver ver. 20 yet, (throws a playback error) but it works perfectly with Foobar 2000.
  
 Seriously-nice sound.


----------



## maricius

Can anyone comment on the HD650-Micro iDSD pairing and the Alpha Dog-Micro iDSD pairing?


----------



## fzman

maricius said:


> Can anyone comment on the HD650-Micro iDSD pairing and the Alpha Dog-Micro iDSD pairing?


 
  
 I bought Alpha Primes at RMAF Canjam, in large part because of how they sounded with my micro iDSD and Fiio X5 which I brought with me.  Listening to them together still makes me very happy.  I recommend the combo for sure.


----------



## john57

fzman said:


> I bought Alpha Primes at RMAF Canjam, in large part because of how they sounded with my micro iDSD and Fiio X5 which I brought with me.  Listening to them together still makes me very happy.  I recommend the combo for sure.


 
 Same here I brought my Prime based on using with my micro iDSD that I brought with me on RMAF Canjam Friday night. Recently I found someone that is getting the prime had at one time the same speakers I had in my first full time job after college, the amazing Ohm F's It is a small world after all.


----------



## DJBaila

maricius said:


> Can anyone comment on the HD650-Micro iDSD pairing and the Alpha Dog-Micro iDSD pairing?


 
 What I love from that combo it's that is very revealing, a lot of detail and instead of mess with the bass port of the Alpha Dog I just put the bass boost on the iDSD when I want more bass, the iDSD drive the Alpha Dog in Normal mode around 2pm at very loud volume, so you'll have plenty of more power on the iDSD.


----------



## RadioWonder737

knorris908 said:


> Congrats!  I'm sure that Rich will get it to you quickly.  You're going to LOVE it!  I was just out on our back porch talking with my wife about all this "audiophile stuff", and the tracks from Josei-San that iFi promotes came on.  My wife stopped and listened for a moment, and then exclaimed, "it sounds like someone is playing a real piano in our loft!"  SCORE!!!  Home run.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My Micro iDSD plays these files in JRiver 20 with no problems... Hope you get it all straightened out...
  
http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/quad-speed-dsd256-works-by-ve-kuseru-dorm-nantes-of-japan/


----------



## NehPets

Forgive me if this has already been covered in this thread, but I'm curious to know how the micro iDSD does DSD512. My understanding is that it uses the Burr-Brown DSD1793 DAC, which has a maximum system clock frequency of 11.2896MHz, but DSD512 is twice that: are ifi-audio over-clocking (if that's even possible) or using some 'secret sauce' or is it just marketing fluff? I'm sure someone out there can explain it in simple terms ...


----------



## Ookazi

By the way, is it safe to use the iEMatch switch on "High Sensitivity" and the power mode on "Turbo" at the same time to drive planar magnetic headphones to achieve a lower gain?


----------



## iFi audio

ookazi said:


> By the way, is it safe to use the iEMatch switch on "High Sensitivity" and the power mode on "Turbo" at the same time to drive planar magnetic headphones to achieve a lower gain?


 

 Hi,
  
           Yes, it is safe, but will not really deliver substantially lower gain than "normal" mode. Using Turbo mode and than padding the signal only burns up more power.










  
 We suggest "Normal" and "Off".
  
 Thanks.


----------



## technobear

nehpets said:


> Forgive me if this has already been covered in this thread, but I'm curious to know how the micro iDSD does DSD512. My understanding is that it uses the Burr-Brown DSD1793 DAC, which has a maximum system clock frequency of 11.2896MHz, but DSD512 is twice that: are ifi-audio over-clocking (if that's even possible) or using some 'secret sauce' or is it just marketing fluff? I'm sure someone out there can explain it in simple terms ...
> :confused_face_2:




This can be simply explained by using the forum search function and looking for DSD1793. You will soon find the answers you seek


----------



## hifijunky

Well, I submitted a ticket to iFi Audio tech support regarding the coax PCM dropouts but haven't received any advice that helps; at least to this point. I'm coming up on one month since purchase so I may contact the dealer and discuss returning this unit. I don't know whether I have a defective unit or I'm one of the few who uses spdif connections, so the problem is not being reported. Every other type of input connection works fine; optical spdif, usb to pc and analog input.
  
 Also, it's been taking a while to get responses back from support each time I respond back. I often have to wait two or three days for updates to my ticket. The last response I received doesn't seem to really address my situation:
  
*"I would suggest to remove the mercury cable from the system and to connect the data cable directly to PC, see if this helps. If so, then there are just too many breaks in the chain. I suspect the addition of the adapter is ultimatley what breaks this camels back, without this adapter things would likely be fine (it is in our testing we routinely use this kind of setup, minus adapter).
 With it added in there has to be a substantial break in impedance continuity, in this case likely too much."*
  
 I'm guessing this was an answer given to another customer but I'm not sure how to respond to it. I'm not using a mercury cable nor am I using spdif output from a pc. This is from a Fiio X3 DAP that I use with other DACs and have never had any dropout issues. Getting concerned at this point...


----------



## BillsonChang007

technobear said:


> This can be simply explained by using the forum search function and looking for DSD1793. You will soon find the answers you seek




+1! But I am not sure if there is any true DSD512 album thought?


----------



## Triodemode

billsonchang007 said:


> +1! But I am not sure if there is any true DSD512 album thought?


 

 I agree...  Only a few odd test tracks thus far as the file size for a whole album would be huge.  It is cool and groundbreaking that iFi has engineered this option however, I'll be surprised if DSD512 will ever be offered on a whole album.


----------



## Amlalsulami

Hello,
  
 Where can i buy online the iDSD Micro? in ebay and amazon is $900-$1000 !!!! The original price is $499
  
 Please let me know where can i buy with a original price


----------



## LoryWiv

As a relative newcomer to higher-end dac / amps, please forgive a basic question: What is the principle difference between using iDSD in turbo mode at a lower volume setting versus standard mode at a higher volume setting....is it the reserve power for peaks or something more?
  
 I know standard mode conserves battery a bit better so trying to understand when turbo is worth the additional drain. Both seem to drive my 300 ohm cans quite well or the music is perhaps a bit fuller when on turbo it's a subtle difference.
  
 Insights appreciated


----------



## Triodemode

lorywiv said:


> As a relative newcomer to higher-end dac / amps, please forgive a basic question: What is the principle difference between using iDSD in turbo mode at a lower volume setting versus standard mode at a higher volume setting....is it the reserve power for peaks or something more?
> 
> I know standard mode conserves battery a bit better so trying to understand when turbo is worth the additional drain. Both seem to drive my 300 ohm cans quite well or the music is perhaps a bit fuller when on turbo it's a subtle difference.
> 
> Insights appreciated


 

 To my knowledge the iDSD micro eco-normal-turbo modes simply increase power output to drive pretty much any headphone on the market.  I use a position which provides normal listening levels with volume around the 11 to 12 o'clock position with my headpones.  Going too low on the volume (around 9 o'clock position) causes a channel imbalance issue on my unit.
  
 As mentioned, the IEMatch switch attenuates the signal for very sensitive in ear monitors. Even thought the attenuation works on all power modes, it wastes battery on any setting except eco, So I leave the IEMatch switch off for regular headphone use.


----------



## BillsonChang007

triodemode said:


> I agree...  Only a few odd test tracks thus far as the file size for a whole album would be huge.  It is cool and groundbreaking that iFi has engineered this option however, I'll be surprised if DSD512 will ever be offered on a whole album.



And I might want to be the first one to purchase it if it is priced well. 



amlalsulami said:


> Hello,
> 
> Where can i buy online the iDSD Micro? in ebay and amazon is $900-$1000 !!!! The original price is $499
> 
> Please let me know where can i buy with a original price



It will be helpful if you can tell us which country you from  



triodemode said:


> To my knowledge the iDSD micro eco-normal-turbo modes simply increase power output to drive pretty much any headphone on the market.  I use a position which provides normal listening levels with volume around the 11 to 12 o'clock position with my headpones.  Going too low on the volume (around 9 o'clock position) causes a channel imbalance issue on my unit.
> 
> As mentioned, the IEMatch switch attenuates the signal for very sensitive in ear monitors. Even thought the attenuation works on all power modes, it wastes battery on any setting except eco, So I leave the IEMatch switch off for regular headphone use.




+1 to this! The difference between Eco, Normal and Turbo is just more and more power. I try to keep my volume knob at around 12 as well.


----------



## Amalz

billsonchang007 said:


> And I might want to be the first one to purchase it if it is priced well.
> It will be helpful if you can tell us which country you from
> +1 to this! The difference between Eco, Normal and Turbo is just more and more power. I try to keep my volume knob at around 12 as well.




Im from Saudi Arabia but i have box in USA that help me to buy online and ship it to my box in USA and then from the box to Saudi Arabai


----------



## BillsonChang007

amalz said:


> Im from Saudi Arabia but i have box in USA that help me to buy online and ship it to my box in USA and then from the box to Saudi Arabai




Here you go: http://ifi-audio.com/sales/#usa

If you are not sure which to go for, I have seen a few here mentioned about music direct: http://www.musicdirect.com


----------



## Esprit

ifi audio said:


> The Mini iDSD is a little further off.


 
 I've asked regarding the iCLUB (for future "IFi mini" buyers...)


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys, 

Is idsd micro and hd800 a good match ?
I read a lot about the idsd being able to drive the most demanding headphones. But not sure if it will be a good match for hd800. 

Any buddies have tested or using this setup , what is your take on this ?

Thanks.


----------



## maricius

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is idsd micro and hd800 a good match ?
> I read a lot about the idsd being able to drive the most demanding headphones. But not sure if it will be a good match for hd800.
> ...


 

 A quick type of "HD800" in the search function should lead to these posts:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/600#post_10831444
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/630#post_10837349
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/840#post_10866964
  
post #1046
  
post #1140
  
 There's a little more but it's up to you to dig.
  
  
 *edit* ohmy… I just realized that this is my 500th post.


----------



## iFi audio

*AKG K-1000: elephunked, on-the-go* During the Crowd-Design phase, we tested the infamous AKG K-1000s with the micro iDSD and some of the last minute improvements to the Turbo section before the micro iDSD was launched were a result of our auditions with the K-1000 and the HE-6.
  
 The AKG K-1000s are notoriously difficult to drive and while the micro iDSD does not drive them to the absolute zenith, it does a very accomplished job making them eminently listenable.
  
 We must say, the AKG K-1000s are very enjoyable "ear speakers" they really not like a headphone at all. They are exceptionally open and spacious as it is literally wearing a pair of open baffle electrostats on your head.
  
 Our Thorsten coined a new phrase for wearing them. To be "elephunked". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Back then we promised some shots and along with the iPhone 6 Plus, we thought we'd put a few pics up for you.
  
 Here you go.


  


  


  


 Some back ground here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/k-1000-got-hungry-headphones-willing-to-travel/


----------



## pekingduck

Sorry I couldn't resist


----------



## roamling

ifi audio said:


> *AKG K-1000: elephunked, on-the-go*
> 
> During the Crowd-Design phase, we tested the infamous AKG K-1000s with the micro iDSD and some of the last minute improvements to the Turbo section before the micro iDSD was launched were a result of our auditions with the K-1000 and the HE-6.
> 
> ...




wow this is crazy, those AKGs got me into the whole headphone thing years ago! Never heard them but at the time they were just out of this world even to just read (dream) about them.

PS what make is that adapter plugged into the headphone amp?


----------



## technobear

roamling said:


> PS what make is that adapter plugged into the headphone amp?




It appears to be a Furutech


----------



## kurb1980

I just ordered the Micro iDSD via MusicDirect.com and been on then hunt for a under 1k DSD256 for a while.  I currently have the Benchmark DAC2 HGC 2 years approx although I'm satisfied it can only do DSD64.  Since my purchase of HQPlayer I been interested in the redbook upsampling to DSD256.  I can currently upsample to DSD64 and 32bit 176kHz PCM I prefer the sound of DSD it is more analogue sounding to my ears.  Most experts say upsampling to DSD256 is the minimum for DSD when redbook is source.  I will be pairing it with my HD600 w/Silver Dragon cables can't wait to hear how this DAC sounds.  So many DAC's I come across use the Sabre chip so Burr Brown should have a different sound profile?  
  
 Curious I placed my it says 4-6 weeks backorder...does ifi produce the idsd in limited quantities or builds them to order?  I know when you buy the PS Audio Direct Stream they make them to order?  But at a much heftier price tag 5k!


----------



## Amalz

kurb1980 said:


> I just ordered the Micro iDSD via MusicDirect.com and been on then hunt for a under 1k DSD256 for a while.  I currently have the Benchmark DAC2 HGC 2 years approx although I'm satisfied it can only do DSD64.  Since my purchase of HQPlayer I been interested in the redbook upsampling to DSD256.  I can currently upsample to DSD64 and 32bit 176kHz PCM I prefer the sound of DSD it is more analogue sounding to my ears.  Most experts say upsampling to DSD256 is the minimum for DSD when redbook is source.  I will be pairing it with my HD600 w/Silver Dragon cables can't wait to hear how this DAC sounds.  So many DAC's I come across use the Sabre chip so Burr Brown should have a different sound profile?
> 
> Curious I placed my it says 4-6 weeks backorder...does ifi produce the idsd in limited quantities or builds them to order?  I know when you buy the PS Audio Direct Stream they make them to order?  But at a much heftier price tag 5k!


 
 Today i order one of iDSD Micro from http://www.ttvjaudio.com/ 
  
 told me out of stuck will be availbale in 10 days that's good beside MusicDirect about 4-6 weeks !!


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> *AKG K-1000: elephunked, on-the-go* During the Crowd-Design phase, we tested the infamous AKG K-1000s with the micro iDSD and some of the last minute improvements to the Turbo section before the micro iDSD was launched were a result of our auditions with the K-1000 and the HE-6.
> 
> The AKG K-1000s are notoriously difficult to drive and while the micro iDSD does not drive them to the absolute zenith, it does a very accomplished job making them eminently listenable.
> 
> ...


 
  
*SUPER COOL!!!*


----------



## hifijunky

For any of you who have had problems with coax digital dropouts, I finally found a reliable connection between my Fiio X3 and the Micro iDSD. I ordered a cable from Blue Jeans Cables made from Belden 1505F cable terminated with Canare metal miniplugs and have had no dropouts since. I had thought I might have a defective unit but this combo works great! Now I can start to really enjoy the excellent audio from this mini wonder!


----------



## Amalz

is coaxial cable works to connect the iDSD micro as DAC/AMP with AK120?


----------



## maricius

amalz said:


> is coaxial cable works to connect the iDSD micro as DAC/AMP with AK120?




If I recall, the AK120 is optical out not coaxial… iFi provides an optical to coaxial adapter if you already have an optical to optical cable.


----------



## Amalz

maricius said:


> If I recall, the AK120 is optical out not coaxial… iFi provides an optical to coaxial adapter if you already have an optical to optical cable.


 
  
 Can you please show a pic of this adapter, Cuz my iDSD on my way to me i didn't get it until now


----------



## Turrican2

Quote: 





amalz said:


> Can you please show a pic of this adapter, Cuz my iDSD on my way to me i didn't get it until now


 
 something like this
  
[size=13.3333339691162px][/size]


----------



## maricius

amalz said:


> Can you please show a pic of this adapter, Cuz my iDSD on my way to me i didn't get it until now




http://www.technoheadphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_4051-2.jpg

Number 10


----------



## Amalz

turrican2 said:


> something like this


 
  
  


maricius said:


> http://www.technoheadphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_4051-2.jpg
> 
> Number 10


 
 is those work with iDSD?
  
http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/moon-audio-blue-dragon-toslink-digital-cable.html#
http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/silver-dragon-toslink-digital-cable.html#
http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/silver-dragon-toslink-form-fit-digital-cable.html?utm_source=Top%20audio%20cables%20for%20chord%20hugo&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=Silver%20dragon%20toslink%20form%20fit#
  
 Plug the adapter to optical and the mini toslink plug to ak120


----------



## Turrican2

amalz said:


> is those work with iDSD?
> 
> http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/moon-audio-blue-dragon-toslink-digital-cable.html#
> http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/silver-dragon-toslink-digital-cable.html#
> ...


 
 I don't see why not, as far as I know the iDSD optical adapter is a standard optical to 3.5mm mini which is a standard.
  
  
 These guys do great optical cables apparently:
 http://www.sysconcept.ca/


----------



## Amalz

turrican2 said:


> I don't see why not, as far as I know the iDSD optical adapter is a standard optical to 3.5mm mini which is a standard.


 
 Sorry i don't understand you!!


----------



## maricius

amalz said:


> Sorry i don't understand you!!




"Yes."


----------



## Turrican2

amalz said:


> Sorry i don't understand you!!


 
 let me re-phrase, must be my accent.
  
 Yes, those cables should work ok   I particularly like the last link 
  
http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables/silver-dragon-toslink-form-fit-digital-cable.html?utm_source=Top%20audio%20cables%20for%20chord%20hugo&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=Silver%20dragon%20toslink%20form%20fit#
  
 very nice connector...


----------



## Amalz

maricius said:


> "Yes."


 
  
  


turrican2 said:


> let me re-phrase, must be my accent.
> 
> Yes, those cables should work ok


 
  
  
 Great, use it with adapter as you both told me?


----------



## maricius

amalz said:


> Great, use it with adapter as you both told me?


 

 Oh if you have the cable you mentioned, you do not need the adapter!!


----------



## iFi audio

Hi,

  
 We are off to exhibit at the Hifi News Show (Old Windsor, London) this weekend.

  
 - iFi is in Sandringham House headphones area - along with AKG and HiFi Man and a few others

  
 - We are also in Sandringham 9 (upstairs with the soon-to-be-launched) Retro system.

  
 Not to hang around but we have just uploaded this for you to try out if you cannot attend the show this weekend.

  

  
iCLUB members wanted to test drive the latest iFi driver  
  

If you are in the iCLUB, please contact one of our concierges so that we can send you the password to download the latest iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio driver. Go to iCLUB CRM

  
 http://ifi-audio.com/iclub_blog/members-wanted-to-test-drive-the-latest-ifi-driver/

  
This V2.23.0 driver update contains improvements and bug fixes, including:
• Improvements

Stream startup optimized to reduce startup latency. Startup delay is reduced from ~100ms to ~20ms
DFU GUI utility: status output revised, improved support for resizeable dialog, another firmware upgrade now requires to restart the application, ESC key doesn’t close the application
Subdevice creation is more generic now: a subdevice will be created for any IAD or interface that is not claimed by Audio, MIDI, DFU
Stream formats (alternate settings) parsing is more flexible now. PCM and RAW/DSD formats can be placed in any order

 Automatic uninstall of earlier version from 2.0 upwards
• And some Bug fixes.


----------



## RadioWonder737

ifi audio said:


> iCLUB members wanted to test drive the latest iFi driver
> 
> 
> If you are in the iCLUB, please contact one of our concierges so that we can send you the password to download the latest iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio driver. Go to iCLUB CRM
> ...


 
V2.23.0 driver update is a very easy install... All is good so far...


----------



## LoryWiv

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I understand that the iClub is for 1st 512 purchasers and /or invitation only, but it's starting to feel a little shoddy that those of us who spent $500 + don't have access to improved drivers in a timely manner. It's one thing for "perks" like DSD downloads or dinners, but this seems like a basic functionality improvement that any purchaser should be entitled to. 

Is the driver still beta? Are you planning to make it available to all owners soon?

Please understand, I love my iDSD and can put up with being a second class owner / citizen "not in the club" despite my purchase. The company has every right to run promotions. That said, a driver seems like something that should be available to all.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening.


----------



## fzman

kurb1980 said:


> I just ordered the Micro iDSD via MusicDirect.com and been on then hunt for a under 1k DSD256 for a while.  I currently have the Benchmark DAC2 HGC 2 years approx although I'm satisfied it can only do DSD64.  Since my purchase of HQPlayer I been interested in the redbook upsampling to DSD256.  I can currently upsample to DSD64 and 32bit 176kHz PCM I prefer the sound of DSD it is more analogue sounding to my ears.  Most experts say upsampling to DSD256 is the minimum for DSD when redbook is source.  I will be pairing it with my HD600 w/Silver Dragon cables can't wait to hear how this DAC sounds.  So many DAC's I come across use the Sabre chip so Burr Brown should have a different sound profile?
> 
> Curious I placed my it says 4-6 weeks backorder...does ifi produce the idsd in limited quantities or builds them to order?  I know when you buy the PS Audio Direct Stream they make them to order?  But at a much heftier price tag 5k!


 
  
 FYI, We will have them next week - based on the most recent info I have been given.


----------



## hifijunky

amalz said:


> is coaxial cable works to connect the iDSD micro as DAC/AMP with AK120?


 
 I don't think so. I have the AK100 and it only has optical output. I'm guessing the AK120 is the same in this regards.


----------



## Triodemode

Can anyone here tell me what difference if any there is regarding the Xbass function between the iCAN and iDSD micro?  I have read others claiming the Xbass is more pronounced with the iCAN, while the iDSD Xbass has a more subtle effect.


----------



## maricius

triodemode said:


> Can anyone here tell me what difference if any there is regarding the Xbass function between the iCAN and iDSD micro?  I have read others claiming the Xbass is more pronounced with the iCAN, while the iDSD Xbass has a more subtle effect.


 

 You nailed it!! I'm aware that the iCAN has two levels whereas the iDSD has one levels but in between those two levels. This is without counting "off" as a level.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> Can anyone here tell me what difference if any there is regarding the Xbass function between the iCAN and iDSD micro?  I have read others claiming the Xbass is more pronounced with the iCAN, while the iDSD Xbass has a more subtle effect.


 
  
 Below is the 2 level XBass on iCAN
  






 
  
 XBass on iDSD micro is about the same as Bass 1 on iCAN, except it is about +4dB on 30Hz instead of +4.5dB @ iCAN, and about +5.5dB on 20Hz instead of +6.5dB @ iCAN. So yes, XBass on iDSD micro is more subtle in comparison to the two level XBass on iCAN, especially when compared to Bass 2, but it is not very far off from iCAN Bass 1.


----------



## maricius

My mistake!!


----------



## diamondears

This would be my next HP amp. Looks great on paper/forums, and basing on the iDSD nano I have already, the sound signature and quality is just immense. I should have listened to the store owner when I was buying the nano...lol


----------



## CrocCap




----------



## BillsonChang007

croccap said:


>




Great pic and nice set up too!


----------



## maricius

croccap said:


>


 
  
 Beautiful! Do share your impressions on the Micro iDSD and also how it pairs with the T1!!


----------



## Amalz

maricius said:


> Beautiful! Do share your impressions on the Micro iDSD and also how it pairs with the T1!!


 
 +111


----------



## diamondears

Wow, no need for camera connection kit (CCK)? I thought the website says you need the CCK. Is there something it canNOT do?


----------



## Poimandres

Where would one get a cable to connect to a micro usb android phone?


----------



## BillsonChang007

diamondears said:


> Wow, no need for camera connection kit (CCK)? I thought the website says you need the CCK. Is there something it canNOT do?




There is actually a CCK in between it is just that, the Micro iDSD's USB plug is big enough to fit in the entire 9-pin CCK entirely in without the need of another cable  


poimandres said:


> Where would one get a cable to connect to a micro usb android phone?




I believe any OTG Cable will do.


----------



## technobear

billsonchang007 said:


> poimandres said:
> 
> 
> > Where would one get a cable to connect to a micro usb android phone?
> ...




Plus your Android phone must be capable of USB OTG.


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> Below is the 2 level XBass on iCAN
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you ClieOS, this is exactly what I was looking for and is what I am hearing with both my Beyerdynamic DT880 and AKG 702 anniversary.  Oh how it would be perfect with these headphones if I could get a response in between Bass 1 and Bass 2.  
  
 My understanding is that XBass is done in the digital domain?  If so, I wonder if iFI could do custom XBass curves via firmware for a nominal charge at individual customers request.  Just think of the revenue that this would bring in as well as being a huge selling point!  Has this even been offered on any other product in this class?


----------



## maricius

triodemode said:


> Thank you ClieOS, this is exactly what I was looking for and is what I am hearing with both my Beyerdynamic DT880 and AKG 702 anniversary.  Oh how it would be perfect with these headphones if I could get a response in between Bass 1 and Bass 2.
> 
> My understanding is that XBass is done in the digital domain?  If so, I wonder if iFI could do custom XBass curves via firmware for a nominal charge at individual customers request.  Just think of the revenue that this would bring in as well as being a huge selling point!  Has this even been offered on any other product in this class?


 

 Okay this I'm certain of. Nope, analog domain.


----------



## technobear

triodemode said:


> My understanding is that XBass is done in the digital domain?




How did you come to that conclusion?

There is no digital processing in the iDSD. There is certainly no digital processing in the iCAN. 

Both XBASS and 3D Holographic Sound are fully analogue only.


----------



## Triodemode

maricius said:


> Okay this I'm certain of. Nope, analog domain.


 

 Oh well another dream shattered...  Now I understand that iFi kept Xbass in the analog section to preserve fidelity. 
  
 Does anyone else here think the iDSD micro's Xbass is a little too subtle?


----------



## diamondears

billsonchang007 said:


> There is actually a CCK in between it is just that, the Micro iDSD's USB plug is big enough to fit in the entire 9-pin CCK entirely in without the need of another cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I see. Thanks for mentioning it. Still perfect though...


----------



## john57

triodemode said:


> Oh well another dream shattered...  Now I understand that iFi kept Xbass in the analog section to preserve fidelity.
> 
> Does anyone else here think the iDSD micro's Xbass is a little too subtle?


 
 I think that the aim was to make the micro more of a audiophile quality unit and the bass switch is more for the real deep bass. If I was listening to more EDM or the like I may enjoy the bass switch more. In my case I listen to mostly acoustic music and do not feel the the need the bass switch. Most of the music I listened to do not have much energy recorded in the deep bass that I can hear.


----------



## diamondears

triodemode said:


> Oh well another dream shattered...  Now I understand that iFi kept Xbass in the analog section to preserve fidelity.
> 
> Does anyone else here think the iDSD micro's Xbass is a little too subtle?


 

 Just get a Beats HP...


----------



## BillsonChang007

triodemode said:


> Oh well another dream shattered...  Now I understand that iFi kept Xbass in the analog section to preserve fidelity.
> 
> Does anyone else here think the iDSD micro's Xbass is a little too subtle?



It's quite noticeable in the sub-bass region and IMO, that's a good boost since sub bass region is usually where most headphones are lacking in. In fact, some headphones do not benefit from mid bass boost. 



diamondears said:


> I see. Thanks for mentioning it. Still perfect though...




Anytime, friend! I uses OTG sometimes with I am beside my bed hehe


----------



## Ookazi

diamondears said:


> Just get a Beats HP...


 
  
 Good one, haha. Well, jokes aside, I would recommend the Fidelio X1 if anything unless you can afford a planar magnetic.
  
 Back on topic, is the iDSD prone to sibilance (pronounced "SSS") overall or is it just my unit? I managed to tune it down to some extent by swapping out the blue USB cable but it's still present.


----------



## WNBC

My iDSD is not prone to sibilance and I'm not using a separate amp or high end cables.  The TH-600 is the only one with sibilance but that's due to its own frequency response.  With that said.  I once owned a DAC that did have a filter that shelved the treble.  Because of this I was able to enjoy headphones that were known for being sibilant.  So, in the opposite direction I suppose there could be DAC or amp that could over-emphasize treble but I don't get that from the iDSD.  The iDSD is transparent and you're hearing inherent characteristics of your downstream components.  I could be wrong.  I will also say that I don't find that the iDSD is making the TH-600 sibilance any worse than I've heard it with other DACs and amps.  
  
 Interesting question though.  I wonder if others are experiencing the same thing as you.  The only fancy thing that I do use is a Vaunix USB hub.  Everything else is stock.  I mostly listen to well-recorded music as well. 
  
  
 Quote:


> Back on topic, is the iDSD prone to sibilance (pronounced "SSS") overall or is it just my unit? I managed to tune it down to some extent by swapping out the blue USB cable but it's still present.


----------



## Triodemode

john57 said:


> I think that the aim was to make the micro more of a audiophile quality unit and the bass switch is more for the real deep bass. If I was listening to more EDM or the like I may enjoy the bass switch more. In my case I listen to mostly acoustic music and do not feel the the need the bass switch. Most of the music I listened to do not have much energy recorded in the deep bass that I can hear.


 

 I agree and this is especially a problem on open back headphones.  I was just hoping to get the bass signature of my HD650's when using my DT880 and K702 anniversaries.  BTW, The B0 and C1 notes of a double upright bass are 31hz and 33hz.  When this instrument is well recorded the bass notes and sub bass harmonics are wonderful.


----------



## Triodemode

ookazi said:


> Good one, haha. Well, jokes aside, I would recommend the Fidelio X1 if anything unless you can afford a planar magnetic.
> 
> Back on topic, is the iDSD prone to sibilance (pronounced "SSS") overall or is it just my unit? I managed to tune it down to some extent by swapping out the blue USB cable but it's still present.


 

 I am eagerly awaiting the Fidelio X2  which Tyll from Inner Fidelity gives a glowing review of.  The lack of comfort with Planar headphones is a deal breaker for me.
  
 Also, I am not experiencing any added top end sibilance or harshness with my iDSD micro.  It is very faithful to whatever source is applied.
  
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/boss-philips-fidelio-x2


----------



## WNBC

Are you a fellow Avishai Cohen fan?  I like his double bass playing and his music is really special (to me at least).  
  
 Quote:


triodemode said:


> I agree and this is especially a problem on open back headphones.  I was just hoping to get the bass signature of my HD650's when using my DT880 and K702 anniversaries.  BTW, The B0 and C1 notes of a double upright bass are 31hz and 33hz.  When this instrument is well recorded the bass notes and sub bass harmonics are wonderful.


----------



## Ookazi

Thanks for all the input regarding sibilance. I seriously consider having my unit checked by ifi in case they are offering such an option. (I live in EU)
 (I tried different headphones, a different PC and even the SPDIF input - same result)
  
As far as headphones are concerned, I personally preferred the X1 over the X2, especially in terms of looks (colors) and shape (the X2s are much more "egg-shaped"). Also, both of these headphones scale extremely well, so it's not hard to make the X1 sound like the X2 with some adjustments in the chain or EQ in my opinion. 
  
If comfort is an issue, you might want to take a look at the Mr.Speakers lineup, if I remember correctly those headphones boast good comfort. I haven't heard any of them yet but all I can say is that I prefer the sound of planars now in general, especially in the mids.


----------



## CrocCap

Some initial thoughts on the iDSD.  Smaller and lighter than I thought it would be, it can be used as a portable DAC/amp, but you might need a fairly good sized pocket.  It is a well packaged item, with nice accessories like rubber bands, anti slip pad, attachable feet, usb cable, and a few adapters.  I like how it has direct output on the RCA jacks so I can hook it up to my amp, as well as an analog input, which some other high end portable dac/amps don't have.
 The XBass does give a slight boost to the bass, but its not going to turn a bass neutral headphone into a slammer. 
 The 3D sound option widens the soundstage, seemingly by adding some treble.  Some tracks this worked well, other times it made the treble a little too bright.
  
 I've been doing some comparisons between the various audio bits I have, with the focus on the idsd.  Beyerdynamic T1's were the primary headphone used, but also HiFiman HE-500 and RE-400 were used.
  
 Comparing DACs of iFi Micro iDSD, Centrance Dacport LX, and Fiio E07k.  All connected to stereo receiver to act as the amp, so its just a dac comparison
  
 iDSD vs Dacport LX - iDSD has slightly better soundstage, a bit wider, with an overall "bigger" sound.  iDSD has slightly better highs, cleaner and more controlled.  The low end is also more extended on the iDSD.  And of course, the iDSD can playback more file types than the Dacport, higher sample rate, and even DSD.  But the Dacport is smaller, cheaper, easier to setup, not that the iDSD was hard, but the Dacport is just plug and play.  Dacport is quite close to the iDSD in terms of dac performance, but the iDSD is overall better.
  
 iDSD vs E07k - pretty much the same results as the Dacport, but differences were more apparent.
  
  
 Amp comparison.  iDSD to Sherwood S-7910, a mid 70's stereo receiver.
  
 Sherwood has better bass extension, as well as less sibilance than the iDSD.  Sherwood also has much more power.  The iDSD has plenty of power for even the HE-500 under normal circumstances, but on files that were much quieter than the average, like ripped movies, it was possible to use the maximum power on the iDSD and still want a little more volume.  Again, this is only for listening at high volumes on particularly quiet files.  For almost all music files I listened to, the iDSD had power to spare.  The Sherwood still has better capabilities when pushing the volume high, a better listening experience.  The iDSD has a lower noise floor,  and highly adjustable gain, making it a good match with IEM's all the way up to more difficult to drive planars.  And of course, the iDSD is portable and very compact compared to the 35 pound Sherwood.
  
 I think its been a good match with the T1's and the HE-500's and would probably be great with a bunch of other headphones as well.


----------



## Triodemode

> Are you a fellow Avishai Cohen fan?  I like his double bass playing and his music is really special (to me at least)


 

 I do really enjoy some of Avishai Cohen's music and have alums Duende and Gently Disturbed in my collection.  You have great taste in music sir.


----------



## WNBC

Great taste in great music is always easy 

I got see him live a couple times. Once with Amos Hoffman. In the end, the iDSD does justice to jazz music. 





triodemode said:


> I do really enjoy some of Avishai Cohen's music and have alums Duende and Gently Disturbed in my collection.  You have great taste in music sir.


----------



## donkeanu

straight from the box, i noticed some channel imbalance on lower volume...
 there is really right?


----------



## knorris908

diamondears said:


> Wow, no need for camera connection kit (CCK)? I thought the website says you need the CCK. Is there something it canNOT do?




I believe the Lightning version of the CCK can be used by itself. (That is how I use it with our iPhone 5 phones and iPad Air.). Our original iPad and iPhone 4s that uses the old style Apple connector needs a USB printer cable and the adapter plug that comes with the IDSD Micro cable to plug into the old style CCK and then into the iDSD Micro. We have to use a wrapped, regular USB printer cable, but are on the lookout for a short USB male to female cable that will be shorter, and won't need the USB adapter.


----------



## john57

donkeanu said:


> straight from the box, i noticed some channel imbalance on lower volume...
> there is really right?


 
 Analog pots do tend to have some channel imbalance at low volume.


----------



## donkeanu

john57 said:


> Analog pots do tend to have some channel imbalance at low volume.


 

 it's connected via usb, so, as dac/amp...


----------



## technobear

donkeanu said:


> straight from the box, i noticed some channel imbalance on lower volume...
> there is really right?




Turn it up!

If it's too loud then engage IEMatch.


----------



## knorris908

FOR HEADPHONES
  
 What is the best file type to use with the iDSD Micro in your opinions?
 Stereo DSD or SURROUND 5.1 DSD?


----------



## BillsonChang007

technobear said:


> Turn it up!
> 
> If it's too loud then engage IEMatch.




+1! But IMO, for almost all my 32 Ohm impedance headphones, I uses Eco + Ultra Sensitivity in order to set my volume to desired position.


----------



## hifijunky

turrican2 said:


> I don't see why not, as far as I know the iDSD optical adapter is a standard optical to 3.5mm mini which is a standard.
> 
> 
> These guys do great optical cables apparently:
> http://www.sysconcept.ca/


 
 Yes, they do! I had a short toslink cable custom built by Sys Concept to connect an AK100 to a Centrance HiFi-M8. Works perfectly! Very pleased with their work.


----------



## RadioWonder737

*This company makes an excellent sounding Optical Glass Cable... *
*A friend who used to claim "All Cables Sound The Same" was blown away by the wonderful sound of these Optical Glass Cables...*

  
  
*He purchased the "*ITEM # TLTLG-OS*" ...*
* http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html*


----------



## estreeter

Did we just get sock-puppeted ?


----------



## iFi audio

*micro iDSD: 1st & Original Crowd-Design Project*  The following video is a small “thank you” to each and every one of you who contributed to the game-changing micro iDSD.
 Over the 4 months, from inception to production; we documented the progress.
 Is your selfie in the video?
 We really hope you enjoy it! Team iFi.


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys, 

Anyone with HD800, do you listen at normal or turbo mode ?
Normal mode at around 11 to 12 o'clock volume felt just right for me. 

Would like to seek more user experience. 

Thanks.


----------



## kugino

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Anyone with HD800, do you listen at normal or turbo mode ?
> Normal mode at around 11 to 12 o'clock volume felt just right for me.
> ...


 

 normal. i haven't found the need to use turbo yet...maybe if i pick up the he6 one of these days. but turbo is more than adequate for the hd800


----------



## BillsonChang007

I use turbo on my AKG when watching movies on my desktop as for some reason, movies sound seems to be softer than my music in FB2k. Other than that, no need for Turbo mode


----------



## jexby

woo hoo!
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/ifi-micro-idsd


----------



## maricius

jexby said:


> woo hoo!
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/ifi-micro-idsd


 

 finally


----------



## Rafu64

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Anyone with HD800, do you listen at normal or turbo mode ?
> Normal mode at around 11 to 12 o'clock volume felt just right for me.
> ...


 

 Same for me. Normal mode 12 o'clock for normal listening. However, the HD800 sounds great with turbo mode, too.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Tidal and Micro iDSD combo is a whole new level of awesomeness!


----------



## mrkvs

Hi there!
  
 Did anyone experience S/PDIF output problems? Like no output signal at all?
  
 My source is Macbook/WiMP HIFI via USB. Micro iDSD is connected to an amplifier via RCA. Another DAC is connected to iDSD via S/PDIF. The strange thing is that although I'm not playing any DXD files, LED turns *white* during the playback via USB, not green, as suggested by the manual for my type of source (I suppose it is PCM 44kHz, since WiMP provides CD quality).
  
 Sorry, if this subject already has been discussed, forum search wasn't helpful.
  
 Mitri


----------



## iFi audio

mrkvs said:


> Hi there!
> 
> 
> Did anyone experience S/PDIF output problems? Like no output signal at all?
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Can you check the basic MacSound settings?
  
 Mac defaults to the highest rate supported. SPDIF only works up to 192KHz. If the Mac tries to play any higher rate, there will be no SPDIF out.

  
 Use Audirvana or other player that sets the Output rate to match the steam format playing, or manually set the default rate to match the stream.
  
 This is a classic Mac computer audio issue.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## mrkvs

Wonderful! 
  
 I found these settings in Audio MIDI Setup app. 
  
 Thank you very much!


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys,
  
 Does the iusbpower and gemini really improve the chain by a decent margin ?
  
 What are your views on this ?
  
 Been trying to find in depth reviews on this, but so far the reviews have been quite general (some quite brief).
  
 My current setup :
  
 Late 2013 rMBP -> iDSD Micro -> HD800 (stock cable)


----------



## maricius

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Does the iusbpower and gemini really improve the chain by a decent margin ?
> 
> ...




The general consesus, including word from iFi, there is a difference, but minimal. Minute compared to the difference of those products with some other DACs.


----------



## semeniub

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Does the iusbpower and gemini really improve the chain by a decent margin ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're using some very spacious and revealing headphones - I'd guess that your would see a difference the higher up the USB food chain you go.
  
 I've settled on the TotalDAC D1 USB cable for feeding my micro from a rMBP. Listening to Flamenco Sketches from Miles Espanol, I just did a quick comparison for you, swapping out my TotalDAC cable for the stock blue cable included with the micro. Each note seemed to sigh and relax with the better cable and the music opened up... I have a iUSBPower and a Kingrex UPOWER (battery) around here for use with split USB cables, and the conclusions have been similar.
  
 If your source was completely optimized (better than rMBP) for electronic emissions and power line noise, maybe the results would be different.


----------



## donkeanu

this thing, DAC-side, is really a keeper! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 ak100mk2 / macbook pro retina >> micro idsd >> pure II >> LCD-X


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Love this little baby


----------



## Incognito73

billsonchang007 said:


> Tidal and Micro iDSD combo is a whole new level of awesomeness!


 
  
  
  Yes, indeed, but on iOS (mobile) platform. I do wonder if Android will even properly and natively support iDSD (or other DACs for the matter) as slowly and surely I'm getting tired of situation that one have to be tided up to UAPP. Let alone the fact that my personal belief is that mobile phones are much better source then any readily available and decent DAP ... mostly because of the UI, flexibility, software choice, on-line streaming etc. Pair them with iDSD Micro and you have one seriously good mobile platform. Actually, not mobile only but desktop worthy too!
  
 Anyhow, I've got my Micro for a test run. It's multifunction device in proper sense and all the filters,effects,gains settings, connection options to fiddle with are endless fun. Tweak geeks paradise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Firstly, I have to commend iFi for superb USB power stage. In 2014 every DAC within such price bracket (or above) should be USB cable non-reactive with clean and stable power stage in place. It's somewhat shameful that one have to opt for external power suppliers and other tweaks just to reach the "norm". My PC is very noisy, especially when high end graphic card is in full swing, and that's usually reflected in unwanted background noise when dealing with USB DACs. However, Micro is dead quiet. Really black background unaffected by anything what's going on in power delivery before his USB end point. I'm not sure if USB power section is galvanically isolated too?! as it's borrowing the technology from Purifier.
  
 By the way, did anyone audition the Micro in "desktop DAC" mode and compared maybe with other similarly priced desktop DACs. I've sold my Meridian Director DAC week ago, so unfortunately audio memory is not fresh to compare it directly ... but it would be interesting to hear any user impressions. 
  
 I will spend some time with Micro and hopefully write few words when I grab more free time.


----------



## BillsonChang007

incognito73 said:


> Yes, indeed, but on iOS (mobile) platform. I do wonder if Android will even properly and natively support iDSD (or other DACs for the matter) as slowly and surely I'm getting tired of situation that one have to be tided up to UAPP. Let alone the fact that my personal belief is that mobile phones are much better source then any readily available and decent DAP ... mostly because of the UI, flexibility, software choice, on-line streaming etc. Pair them with iDSD Micro and you have one seriously good mobile platform. Actually, not mobile only but desktop worthy too!
> 
> Anyhow, I've got my Micro for a test run. It's multifunction device in proper sense and all the filters,effects,gains settings, connection options to fiddle with are endless fun. Tweak geeks paradise   Firstly, I have to commend iFi for superb USB power stage. In 2014 every DAC within such price bracket (or above) should be USB cable non-reactive with clean and stable power stage in place. It's somewhat shameful that one have to opt for external power suppliers and other tweaks just to reach the "norm". My PC is very noisy, especially when high end graphic card is in full swing, and that's usually reflected in unwanted background noise when dealing with USB DACs. However, Micro is dead quiet. Really black background unaffected by anything what's going on in power delivery before his USB end point. I'm not sure if USB power section is galvanically isolated too?! as it's borrowing the technology from Purifier.
> 
> ...




Indeed the Micro iDSD is really. Really. REALLY clean with the USB signal! In all honesty, I didn't believe in the iPurifier's technology until I got my hands on it myself with the purifier built in the Micro iDSD. and yes, the Micro iDSD is very feature packed as well. Powerful, check. Desktop quality, check. XBass & 3D, check. iPurfier, check. Awesome DAC, check. DSD playback, check with DSD512. Bit-Perfect Switch, check. What else?!


----------



## Poimandres

ipurifier built in? I can't wait to receive mine. Should be here soon.


----------



## BillsonChang007

poimandres said:


> ipurifier built in? I can't wait to receive mine. Should be here soon.




Make sure to charge them for 24 hours before use. It is the recommended way to protect the battery inside and to get the most out of it.


----------



## Poimandres

Thanks. 24 hours you got it. TTVJ just got a fresh delivery of these on Friday. Does anyone here have a glacier too? If so how does the ifi compare to the glacier?


----------



## senorx12562

I guess that (for once) my timing was impeccable, because I ordered my micro thursday from ttvj, and it was shipped Friday. Should have it Monday. Can't wait. Quick question tho: Is a cable included to use my X3 as a transport only, with the micro acting as the amp and dac? If not, what do I need to get?(Didn't even think of ordering from anyone else, as thanks for kindly providing some awesome microbrews at CanJam, along with a room to party in when the hotel shut down the ttvj pub). Thanks Todd.


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys , i think there is something wrong with my setup.
 When i select the ifi output on my mac , no sound is coming out.
  
 macbookpro -> mercury 0.5m -> iusbpower -> gemini 1.5m -> idsd micro -> headphone
  
 This is weird. No sound at all.
  
 P.S  Solved. Was using the small thumbsize usb adapter(black color) provided in idsd micro. No sound coming out. When switched the small cable adapter version, it is working again.
  
 Stupid me. LOL.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Have you installed the driver from iFi Download section? Also try turning on your iDSD before connecting to the chain if you have already downloaded the driver from iFi website. 

Hope it helps
Billson


----------



## Incognito73

billsonchang007 said:


> Indeed the Micro iDSD is really. Really. REALLY clean with the USB signal! In all honesty, I didn't believe in the iPurifier's technology until I got my hands on it myself with the purifier built in the Micro iDSD. and yes, the Micro iDSD is very feature packed as well. Powerful, check. Desktop quality, check. XBass & 3D, check. iPurfier, check. Awesome DAC, check. DSD playback, check with DSD512. Bit-Perfect Switch, check. What else?!


 
  
 Indeed indeed. Amazing feature set. Interestingly enough, one can adapt the sound signature to specific equipment end-point in place. Look, I've sold my Meridian Director DAC and it was straight forward replacement (financially). Director is absolutely wonderful DAC, BUT feature wise not comparable and on top of that I was waiting for a 6 months or so for them to release the fix related to USB3 chip-set compatibility problem. One have to wonder.
  
 I don't have any readily available DAC at the moment for (PCM) comparison, just my trusty Cantatis Overture sound card. I'm not sure if Micro RCA analog output stage (direct mode)  is bull eyed at 2.0V, but it seems that I would have to level matched them first as Micro sounds a bit thinner and somewhat distant. It's amazingly clear though without slightest hint of harshness, very easy on the ear. I'm using JRMC with parallel output to two zones (one wasapi output to Micro and one wasapi output to Cantatis) and my pre-amp is digitally relayed (so no gap when switching sources) as comparison method.
  
 It's interesting that even when you turn off the Micro it's still available to the operating system and music continues to play. It's seems that some type of keep alive signal is in place. When you turn it on there is a micro crossfader in place so that you don't have that initial burst from the audio signal. Interesting indeed. Drivers are rock solid.
  
 Headphones tests still to follow ...


----------



## ClieOS

Here to report that this combo works like a charm:
  
 Sony NWZ-A15 (or A16 / A17) + WMC-NWH10 (OTG cable) + iDSD micro.
  
 iDSD nano will work as well.


----------



## CrapInMySoul

Hello,
  
 I am new here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and want to join now headphone/dac hifi
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Think about buying K701 headphones and the iDSD Nano for beginning. So my question is, if the Micro would be the more better choice only soundwise or would the Nano make me happy enough??
  
 Sorry for my English, it is not my native language.


----------



## BillsonChang007

incognito73 said:


> Indeed indeed. Amazing feature set. Interestingly enough, one can adapt the sound signature to specific equipment end-point in place. Look, I've sold my Meridian Director DAC and it was straight forward replacement (financially). Director is absolutely wonderful DAC, BUT feature wise not comparable and on top of that I was waiting for a 6 months or so for them to release the fix related to USB3 chip-set compatibility problem. One have to wonder.
> 
> I don't have any readily available DAC at the moment for (PCM) comparison, just my trusty Cantatis Overture sound card. I'm not sure if Micro RCA analog output stage (direct mode)  is bull eyed at 2.0V, but it seems that I would have to level matched them first as Micro sounds a bit thinner and somewhat distant. It's amazingly clear though without slightest hint of harshness, very easy on the ear. I'm using JRMC with parallel output to two zones (one wasapi output to Micro and one wasapi output to Cantatis) and my pre-amp is digitally relayed (so no gap when switching sources) as comparison method.
> 
> ...




Agreed with the last paragraph. My old FiiO stack when turned off, my PC will go back to speaker but with the Micro, it continues which is kind of disturbing as I sometimes like to charge it on my PC while playing music. What I did was, use FB2k and switch the output myself.


----------



## freedom01

crapinmysoul said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am new here
> 
> ...


 

 Hi mate,
  
 Nano is great little product.
  
 But micro will serve you well now and in the future (all kinds of headphones and more settings to play with).


----------



## jexby

clieos said:


> Here to report that this combo works like a charm:
> 
> Sony NWZ-A15 (or A16 / A17) + WMC-NWH10 (OTG cable) + iDSD micro.




What is that 1/4" plug adapter in the iDSD?


----------



## freedom01

Have any mates tested iDSD micro along with the likes of Schiit , Geek and other similar range DAC/AMP ?
  
 So where do you think the micro stand among these boys ?


----------



## CrapInMySoul

freedom01 said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> Nano is great little product.
> 
> But micro will serve you well now and in the future (all kinds of headphones and more settings to play with).


 
  
 Thanx, have ordered the Micro now. We will see. Regarding headphones I am doubtful if I should go with AKG 701 or Philips Fidelio X1??


----------



## audiotweaker

crapinmysoul said:


> Thanx, have ordered the Micro now. We will see. Regarding headphones I am doubtful if I should go with AKG 701 or Philips Fidelio X1??


 
 Philips Fidelio X 2 made Innerfidelity's Wall of Fame.   The X 1 does not.


----------



## ClieOS

jexby said:


> What is that 1/4" plug adapter in the iDSD?


 
  
 That, my friend, is possibly the smallest 1/4' adapter there is, but you can only find it on Taobao.
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.22.eTiI71&id=36116656270&ns=1&abbucket=8&_u=b1j64hni7376#detail
  
 I just hate the stock one that sticks out too much.


----------



## jexby

clieos said:


> That, my friend, is possibly the smallest 1/4' adapter there is, but you can only find it on Taobao.
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.22.eTiI71&id=36116656270&ns=1&abbucket=8&_u=b1j64hni7376#detail
> 
> I just hate the stock one that sticks out too much.


 
  
 that is impressive!  I'd love two of those, but the shipping into USA might just kill the deal?
  
 anyone willing to handle a group buy for us Amerikans?





 or bring them to the CanJam in California in March? ha!


----------



## Poimandres

I'd be in for one. Charging my micro now.


----------



## senorx12562

Just got my  Micro iDSD today and just started the 24 hr. charge.  I posted this question here and got no response. I also emailed it to ifi, with the same results. How should I connect it to my x3 to use the iDSD as a dac and amp? My x3 has a headphone out (3.5 mm) a line out  (3.5mm as well), and what is labeled a coaxial out, (which is also a 3.5mm socket). I know the first  out would use only the amp of the iDSD and the second only the dac, so I'm assuming the proper output is the coaxial out, but what input on the iDSD would I use, and what kind of cabling and adapters would that require? Or could I use the micro USB port and a usb OTG cable? Help!


----------



## maricius

senorx12562 said:


> Just got my  Micro iDSD today and just started the 24 hr. charge.  I posted this question here and got no response. I also emailed it to ifi, with the same results. How should I connect it to my x3 to use the iDSD as a dac and amp? My x3 has a headphone out (3.5 mm) a line out  (3.5mm as well), and what is labeled a coaxial out, (which is also a 3.5mm socket). I know the first  out would use only the amp of the iDSD and the second only the dac, so I'm assuming the proper output is the coaxial out, but what input on the iDSD would I use, and what kind of cabling and adapters would that require? Or could I use the micro USB port and a usb OTG cable? Help!




3.5mm to RCA coaxial cable!! The Micro iDSD accepts digital coaxial input. This activates either DAC alone or DAC and amp.


----------



## dynacampjim

senorx12562:


> Just got my  Micro iDSD today and just started the 24 hr. charge.  I posted this question here and got no response. I also emailed it to ifi, with the same results. How should I connect it to my x3 to use the iDSD as a dac and amp? My x3 has a headphone out (3.5 mm) a line out  (3.5mm as well), and what is labeled a coaxial out, (which is also a 3.5mm socket). I know the first  out would use only the amp of the iDSD and the second only the dac, so I'm assuming the proper output is the coaxial out, but what input on the iDSD would I use, and what kind of cabling and adapters would that require? Or could I use the micro USB port and a usb OTG cable? Help!


 
 Your x3's headphone and line outs are both analogue - the line output would normally go to an amplifier ( for a hifi system ). I have a Nano and I'm trying to get my head round all the features of the Micro, but it seems clear to me that the best way for you to use the x3 with the Micro would be your coaxial out to the Micro's SPDIF input which will use the dac and amp in the Micro to give analogue output to the headphone port or analogue ( line ) output from the right and left rca/phono sockets.
 I note that maricius has beaten me with a reply but I would query his 'dac alone' point since the digital output from the micro appears to come from the same port as the digital input goes to !  As far as I can see, you can only get a coaxial digital output from the Micro when using the USB input. Well, that's how I understand it - please someone correct me if I am wrong as I like to know how something works before I buy it


----------



## senorx12562

All the 3.5mm male to rca male cables that I see have two rca plugs, right and left, in fact I have a couple myself. The s/pdif input on the iDSD is just one RCA socket.


----------



## diamondears

Isn't spdif input always 1 socket? It's digital input. 2 sockets (R and L) is analogue.


----------



## diamondears

Maybe you meant analogue input (not spdif=digital) with 1 socket. If your source is 2 sockets, you need a interconnects/RCA with male RCA/3.5mm on one end and regular 2 socket RCA on the other. Or just buy an adaptor 2 sockets female to 1 socket male.


----------



## senorx12562

No. the source is a single 3.5mm socket labeled "coaxial out." That's obviously not correct. since coaxial is by definition a cable with one channel carried through the center of the cable, and the other channel carried outside of that, thus , they share an axis(center). A 3.5 mm plug is not coaxial, although it can carry two channels to a coaxial cable. RCA plugs are one way to terminate a coaxial cable. What I can't find is a cable that is terminated on one end with a stereo 3.5mm male and on the other end with a RCA male. I'm trying to avoid putting a bunch of crap in the signal chain like adaptors. I thought the "coaxial out" thing was a little hinky when I saw it. Fiio, what were you thinking?


----------



## senorx12562

dynacampjim said:


> senorx12562:
> Your x3's headphone and line outs are both analogue - the line output would normally go to an amplifier ( for a hifi system ). I have a Nano and I'm trying to get my head round all the features of the Micro, but it seems clear to me that the best way for you to use the x3 with the Micro would be your coaxial out to the Micro's SPDIF input which will use the dac and amp in the Micro to give analogue output to the headphone port or analogue ( line ) output from the right and left rca/phono sockets.
> I note that maricius has beaten me with a reply but I would query his 'dac alone' point since the digital output from the micro appears to come from the same port as the digital input goes to !  As far as I can see, you can only get a coaxial digital output from the Micro when using the USB input. Well, that's how I understand it - please someone correct me if I am wrong as I like to know how something works before I buy it


 
 Yes, it is input with a usb audio signal applied, and output if there is no signal. I still can't find a cable though.


----------



## maricius

dynacampjim said:


> senorx12562:
> Your x3's headphone and line outs are both analogue - the line output would normally go to an amplifier ( for a hifi system ). I have a Nano and I'm trying to get my head round all the features of the Micro, but it seems clear to me that the best way for you to use the x3 with the Micro would be your coaxial out to the Micro's SPDIF input which will use the dac and amp in the Micro to give analogue output to the headphone port or analogue ( line ) output from the right and left rca/phono sockets.
> I note that maricius has beaten me with a reply but I would query his 'dac alone' point since the digital output from the micro appears to come from the same port as the digital input goes to !  As far as I can see, you can only get a coaxial digital output from the Micro when using the USB input. Well, that's how I understand it - please someone correct me if I am wrong as I like to know how something works before I buy it




When I mean DAC only I mean micro iDSD as a DAC with analog output through its RCA jacks!! It is true that to get digital output of the iDSD one has to use USB input and coaxial output but that wouldn't be technically using the iDSD as a DAC.



senorx12562 said:


> No. the source is a single 3.5mm socket labeled "coaxial out." That's obviously not correct. since coaxial is by definition a cable with one channel carried through the center of the cable, and the other channel carried outside of that, thus , they share an axis(center). A 3.5 mm plug is not coaxial, although it can carry two channels to a coaxial cable. RCA plugs are one way to terminate a coaxial cable. What I can't find is a cable that is terminated on one end with a stereo 3.5mm male and on the other end with a RCA male. I'm trying to avoid putting a bunch of crap in the signal chain like adaptors. I thought the "coaxial out" thing was a little hinky when I saw it. Fiio, what were you thinking?




I've been using a TS 3.5mm to RCA cable that came with my DX90?? From what I gather including through cable makers like moon audio, it's still a coaxial cable. I'm not into the specifics but if it works, it works.


----------



## senorx12562

maricius said:


> When I mean DAC only I mean micro iDSD as a DAC with analog output through its RCA jacks!! It is true that to get digital output of the iDSD one has to use USB input and coaxial output but that wouldn't be technically using the iDSD as a DAC.
> I've been using a TS 3.5mm to RCA cable that came with my DX90?? From what I gather including through cable makers like moon audio, it's still a coaxial cable. I'm not into the specifics but if it works, it works.


 
 Is the RCA end male or female? I finally found my accessories that came with my x3, one of which is a 3.5mm stereo plug to rca female plug. I now only need a rca male to male adapter and I think I'm good to go. Too bad I have to wait 20 more hours.


----------



## maricius

senorx12562 said:


> Is the RCA end male or female? I finally found my accessories that came with my x3, one of which is a 3.5mm stereo plug to rca female plug. I now only need a rca male to male adapter and I think I'm good to go. Too bad I have to wait 20 more hours.




Coaxial input and output is the yellow female RCA at the back


----------



## senorx12562

Thanks for your help!


----------



## knorris908

senorx12562 said:


> No. the source is a single 3.5mm socket labeled "coaxial out." That's obviously not correct. since coaxial is by definition a cable with one channel carried through the center of the cable, and the other channel carried outside of that, thus , they share an axis(center). A 3.5 mm plug is not coaxial, although it can carry two channels to a coaxial cable. RCA plugs are one way to terminate a coaxial cable. What I can't find is a cable that is terminated on one end with a stereo 3.5mm male and on the other end with a RCA male. I'm trying to avoid putting a bunch of crap in the signal chain like adaptors. I thought the "coaxial out" thing was a little hinky when I saw it. Fiio, what were you thinking?


 

 I am awaiting my Forza custom digital cable, should arrive in the next day or so hopefully, as it shipped on the 5th.  http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=30
 I plug into the 3.5mm socket on my DX90 and use the RCA Intelligent SPDIF® Coaxial jack on the back of the iDSD Micro.  (Port next to the RCA LEFT AND RIGHT)
  
 Used the left channel of a straight RCA audio cable with an RCA to 3.5mm adapter tip in the mean time.  Works, but I expect the custom cable to be more efficient, if not just more convenient since it doesn't have the extra bulk of being too long, and a useless right channel RCA cable that all has to be wrapped-up together.  Best bet is if you can find a straight composite video RCA cable and drop the adapter on it until you get a custom cable.  (Or make-do with it if it is short enough.)
  
 Hope this helps!
  
 Ken N.


----------



## technobear

clieos said:


> Here to report that this combo works like a charm:
> 
> Sony NWZ-A15 (or A16 / A17) + WMC-NWH10 (OTG cable) + iDSD micro.
> 
> iDSD nano will work as well.




Get that filter switch away from the "standard" setting! :rolleyes:


----------



## senorx12562

knorris908 said:


> I am awaiting my Forza custom digital cable, should arrive in the next day or so hopefully, as it shipped on the 5th.  http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=30
> I plug into the 3.5mm socket on my DX90 and use the RCA Intelligent SPDIF® Coaxial jack on the back of the iDSD Micro.  (Port next to the RCA LEFT AND RIGHT)
> 
> Used the left channel of a straight RCA audio cable with an RCA to 3.5mm adapter tip in the mean time.  Works, but I expect the custom cable to be more efficient, if not just more convenient since it doesn't have the extra bulk of being too long, and a useless right channel RCA cable that all has to be wrapped-up together.  Best bet is if you can find a straight composite video RCA cable and drop the adapter on it until you get a custom cable.  (Or make-do with it if it is short enough.)
> ...




Thank you.


----------



## Poimandres

I just finished the 24+ hour charge on my micro via my pc's usb 3 port and then installed the driver.  It sounds very nice coming from foobar or mediamonkey, I had the bit perfect switch on then realized I was only playing level 10 ogg's.  There is definitely a delay between turning the ifi on and when it actually powers on.
  
 I also picked up a ntw p/n nusbd-445fm/mic cable to try to utilize with my oneplus one.  It is either the cyan or magenta color led that lights up however neutron, poweramp and usb audio recorder pro do not recognize the micro and therefore do not output any sound.  Has anyone got the idsd working with an android device?  The ntw cable should work correct?  I also ordered a comprehensive usbaf-mcbmra cable however the a female connector is a little too big and I do not want to force it in any further.  Size wise it matches the opo nicely however no usb audio.  Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Poimandres

Nevermind usb audio recorder pro is functioning now.  Apparently if I try neutron or poweramp first and then usb recorder pro, it refuses to connect.  Simply close the app then unplug the idsd and plug it back in and all is well.


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys,

Would like to seek opinions on which setup will yield better results. Currently using first setup. 

iusbpower -> idsd micro -> hd800

iusbpower -> idsd micro -> micro ican -> hd800

Thanks.


----------



## diamondears

iUSB➡️micro iDSD➡️HD-800 not powerful enough?


----------



## maricius

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Would like to seek opinions on which setup will yield better results. Currently using first setup.
> 
> ...


 
  

 The Micro iCAN is said to be a better amp than the Micro iDSD's amp section though I bet there are other desktop amps that would do even better for something like an HD800.


----------



## ClieOS

Got to hear Chord Hugo today head-to-head against iDSD micro. Can't say I find Hugo to be any better sound. Both are excellent DAC/amp but Hugo has a very obvious warmish / richer tone. One thing I dislike about Hugo is that it is a very user-unfriendly design, with almost no marking on the casing to tell you which does what, not to mention the design is rather ugly. Chord should have more paid attention to the little detail consider how expensive Hugo is. It is like someone's unfinished project.


----------



## knorris908

maricius said:


> The Micro iCAN is said to be a better amp than the Micro iDSD's amp section though I bet there are other desktop amps that would do even better for something like an HD800.




Question: if iPurifyer is already built-in to the iDSD Micro, then why would you need the iUSB Power unit? Just plug the iDSD Micro into your USB port, and it cleans up the USB 2 or USB 3 port noise handily. (At least compared to the noise that gets through my FIIO e17 USB connection in my setup, it does!)

As far as power needed to drive the HD-800, unless someone who owns one AND a HD-650, both broken-in well, can confirm otherwise, I'd be inclined to believe that the HD-800 isn't any harder to drive than the HD-650. And the iDSD Micro puts out plenty of power to make the HD-650s sound great to my ears. MUCH better than the FIIO e17 or even my old full-sized Panasonic surround sound home theater's "headphone out". The SCHIIT ASGARD 2 does beat it in terms of raw power, but both can be driven to volume levels uncomfortable for listening, so much-so that the advantage of portability trumps the minor difference many times over for me.

Nothing to stop you from buying an iCan if you want to try it, but I recommend you obtain it from a source that allows returns without restocking fees... I truly don't believe it will be a "value-add" over your iDSD Micro by itself. 

Suggestion: A good, desktop amp with oodles of power that has been reviewed as sounding great with the HD-800 would be where I'd spend that extra money. Use the costs you'd save on the iUSB Power, (If you can still return it.) and iCan (EDIT: correction typed iDAC by mistake.) to get you started.

Just my 2 cents. If you DO decide to try them both anyway, please let me know if you disagree with my impressions. It's all about sharing and experimenting after all! 

(My personal budget just isn't great enough to try everything unless I can be reasonably sure based on others' impressions that a purchase makes clear sound quality improvement sense. "Buy once by buying-right rather than buying-cheap" is my motto. To date, I've not read anything that shows as a better value for sound quality, file support, features, or raw power in the iDSD's price range or even double. And that includes both portable and non-portable solutions.)

Most of all, ENJOY THE MUSIC! 

Ken N.


----------



## diamondears

knorris908 said:


> Question: if iPurifyer is already built-in to the iDSD Micro, then why would you need the iUSB Power unit? Just plug the iDSD Micro into your USB port, and it cleans up the USB 2 or USB 3 port noise handily. (At least compared to the noise that gets through my FIIO e17 USB connection in my setup, it does!)
> 
> As far as power needed to drive the HD-800, unless someone who owns one AND a HD-650, both broken-in well, can confirm otherwise, I'd be inclined to believe that the HD-800 isn't any harder to drive than the HD-650. And the iDSD Micro puts out plenty of power to make the HD-650s sound great to my ears. MUCH better than the FIIO e17 or even my old full-sized Panasonic surround sound home theater's "headphone out". The SCHIIT ASGARD 2 does beat it in terms of raw power, but both can be driven to volume levels uncomfortable for listening, so much-so that the advantage of portability trumps the minor difference many times over for me.
> 
> ...


 iDAC? IDAC would improve the micro iDSD?


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> Got to hear Chord Hugo today head-to-head against iDSD micro. Can't say I find Hugo to be any better sound. Both are excellent DAC/amp but Hugo has a very obvious warmish / richer tone. One thing I dislike about Hugo is that it is a very user-unfriendly design, with almost no marking on the casing to tell you which does what, not to mention the design is rather ugly. Chord should have more paid attention to the little detail consider how expensive Hugo is. It is like someone's unfinished project.


 Wow. That is quite a statement. Goes to show how great the micro iDSD is.


----------



## BillsonChang007

clieos said:


> Got to hear Chord Hugo today head-to-head against iDSD micro. Can't say I find Hugo to be any better sound. Both are excellent DAC/amp but Hugo has a very obvious warmish / richer tone. One thing I dislike about Hugo is that it is a very user-unfriendly design, with almost no marking on the casing to tell you which does what, not to mention the design is rather ugly. Chord should have more paid attention to the little detail consider how expensive Hugo is. It is like someone's unfinished project.




Very similar to one of my buddy's impression on both of them but the Chord Hugo seem to perform noticeably better than the Micro iDSD with certain headphones he said.


----------



## maricius

billsonchang007 said:


> Very similar to one of my buddy's impression on both of them but the Chord Hugo seem to perform noticeably better than the Micro iDSD with certain headphones he said.




Close to another $2000 for some magic mumbo jumbo… it must be depressing to realize your phones are those that perform similarly on both after already buying the Hugo.


----------



## knorris908

maricius said:


> Close to another $2000 for some magic mumbo jumbo… it must be depressing to realize your phones are those that perform similarly on both after already buying the Hugo.




Agreed. I find it both relieving and gratifying that others are consistently finding that an iDSD Micro is relatively on-par with a Chord HUGO, (With the exception of "some" headphones apparently.) when the iDSD Micro costs a good bit less than 1/4th the cost of a Chord HUGO... 

Cheers!


----------



## knorris908

billsonchang007 said:


> Very similar to one of my buddy's impression on both of them but the Chord Hugo seem to perform noticeably better than the Micro iDSD with certain headphones he said.




Any way that we might hear what headphones he had in mind when that statement was made? (Hoping that the HD-650 wasn't one of them... But then again, good on the HD-650s if they can manage to sound even better than they do on my iDSD Micro!). 

Ken N.


----------



## knorris908

diamondears said:


> iDAC? IDAC would improve the micro iDSD?




Apologies Diamondears. I mistyped iDAC when I should have typed iCan

And no, I don't mean to infer that the iCan or iDAC can improve the iDSD.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ken N.


----------



## ClieOS

knorris908 said:


> Question: if iPurifyer is already built-in to the iDSD Micro, then why would you need the iUSB Power unit? Just plug the iDSD Micro into your USB port, and it cleans up the USB 2 or USB 3 port noise handily. (At least compared to the noise that gets through my FIIO e17 USB connection in my setup, it does!)
> ...


 
  
 To put it short, iUSB Power is for cleaning up the power lines, where iPurifier is mainly for cleaning up the data lines.
  


billsonchang007 said:


> Very similar to one of my buddy's impression on both of them but the Chord Hugo seem to perform noticeably better than the Micro iDSD with certain headphones he said.


 
  
 I'll imagine the richer, warmer tone from the Hugo should be a really good match for some headphone, though personally I think it is more related to synergy rather than performance difference. Beyond that, I just don't 'hear the price difference between them, for better or worst.


----------



## CrapInMySoul

One question from a noob, so at first sorry about that:
  
 I think of using the Micro as DAC in my home rig. Would not use it as portable.
  
 So please could someone explain me how I could charge it, must I charge with a MAC/PC?


----------



## john57

I wanted a better understanding of the seven different USB streaming modes in the control panel for the iDSD. I understand that several other DAC's uses the same USB windows control panel. I tried goggle but not having much luck in explaining more on the details of the seven USB streaming modes.


----------



## CrocCap

crapinmysoul said:


> One question from a noob, so at first sorry about that:
> 
> I think of using the Micro as DAC in my home rig. Would not use it as portable.
> 
> So please could someone explain me how I could charge it, must I charge with a MAC/PC?


 

 Just use the included USB cable and plug it into a USB port on the computer.
 For the initial charge, just don't turn on the iDSD until the blue light goes off, this may take up to 24 hours.


----------



## kissmevn

SQ wise, because I'm finding a source for my sensitive K10. Between Nano and Micro, which one will have a better SQ ? (other futures aside)


----------



## BillsonChang007

clieos said:


> To put it short, iUSB Power is for cleaning up the power lines, where iPurifier is mainly for cleaning up the data lines.
> 
> 
> I'll imagine the richer, warmer tone from the Hugo should be a really good match for some headphone, though personally I think it is more related to synergy rather than performance difference. Beyond that, I just don't 'hear the price difference between them, for better or worst.




I believe the Hugo is will be more popular because the sound signature is more like-able? But thanks for the impression! 


crapinmysoul said:


> One question from a noob, so at first sorry about that:
> 
> I think of using the Micro as DAC in my home rig. Would not use it as portable.
> 
> So please could someone explain me how I could charge it, must I charge with a MAC/PC?



Since you are just using it as a DAC, turn on the power only after you have connected to the source will help avoid using battery power unless you are running Turbo mode in the amp section. Make sure to get 24 hour battery charge before use thought. 



kissmevn said:


> SQ wise, because I'm finding a source for my sensitive K10. Between Nano and Micro, which one will have a better SQ ? (other futures aside)




The Micro for sure.


----------



## CrapInMySoul

croccap said:


> Just use the included USB cable and plug it into a USB port on the computer.
> For the initial charge, just don't turn on the iDSD until the blue light goes off, this may take up to 24 hours.


 
  
 Thanks, so charging with my Macbook Pro is the solution.


----------



## ClieOS

billsonchang007 said:


> I believe the Hugo is will be more popular because the sound signature is *more like-able*? But thanks for the impression!


 
  
 Probably. The big turn-off for me about Hugo is not its sound though, but the lack of attention to the outer design. As I have said, it just looks too much like an afterthought.


----------



## mogulmaster

Yo, just got these for my lcd2s. whoa. Major step up from my e9. Damn. By the way, couldn't wait on the battery thing, just had to send it right when I unboxed it. Works fine. 
  
 also, it's definitely got serious power. I can't do turbo mode at all. 10 o clock on normal with the audezes is pretty loud lol. 
  
 Does anyone know about combining the turbo mode with the IEM thing on the back? Anyone have the lcd2s -- what settings do you prefer (3D, IEM, etc.)?
  
 Thanks


----------



## CrocCap

I've tried using the iematch on ultra sensitive when on turbo mode. it sounds terrible, crackly and distorted. I would just leave iematch off unless you need lower volume on eco mode.  And youd get less battery life on turbo mode anyway. other combos of iematch and power modes sounded fine though.


----------



## maricius

I concur. iEMatch on Turbo introduces very audible distortion. When I demoed the LCD-2 with my micro iDSD, I was using Normal with iEMatch either set to off or High Sensitivity. Vocals and soundstage depth was amazing. Bass was very clean and detailed. The weight was well balanced with tightness. The advice I can give is "burn them in." It's not a gradual getting better and better. There are points within the first 100 hours that sound worse than newly opened. Past that point, it becomes gradually better but witn the increments of improvement also slowly decreasing.


----------



## Mudshark

mogulmaster said:


> Yo, just got these for my lcd2s. whoa. Major step up from my e9. Damn. By the way, couldn't wait on the battery thing, just had to send it right when I unboxed it. Works fine.
> 
> also, it's definitely got serious power. I can't do turbo mode at all. 10 o clock on normal with the audezes is pretty loud lol.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I run the LCD2-F with the iDSD Micro -- great combo!  I am on Normal power mode with IEMatch set to Off.  I usually leave the XBass and 3D off, as well.  Finally, I am on the Standard filter for DSD and Bit-Perfect for PCM.


----------



## vo_obgyn

I have a question for the forum. When I am playing DSD files the iDSD lights up cyan as expected. When I look at the MAC Audio MIDI setup, the frequency says 176,000 Hz Output format. Is that right, or should the Audio MIDI setup show a higher frequency than that? Just wondering. I am using Audirvana Plus with all the iFi recommended settings.


----------



## iFi audio

mogulmaster said:


> Does anyone know about combining the turbo mode with the IEM thing on the back? Anyone have the lcd2s -- what settings do you prefer (3D, IEM, etc.)?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


 

 Hi,

  
 Please do not with LCD-2s or similar.
  
 The iEmatch circuit reduces the output from the Amplifier when too powerful and really should be applied after first engaging "Eco" mode and only if there is still insufficient volume control range.
  
 This is like flooring the accelerator and then applying brakes - just use the Power mode to use with your desired headphone first. Turbo @ 4W is too much for most headphones out there.


----------



## vo_obgyn

vo_obgyn said:


> I have a question for the forum. When I am playing DSD files the iDSD lights up cyan as expected. When I look at the MAC Audio MIDI setup, the frequency says 176,000 Hz Output format. Is that right, or should the Audio MIDI setup show a higher frequency than that? Just wondering. I am using Audirvana Plus with all the iFi recommended settings.




Bump. Can anyone with MacOSX Yosemite help?


----------



## john57

According to Audirvana support;
  
_Audirvana Plus makes use of optimizations not known by regular CoreAudio (e.g. Integer Mode)._
_Audio Midi Setup is using the standard CoreAudio functions to retrieve its information that then may not be correct during Audirvana Plus playback_
  
 What you see on the LED light on the micro is the final say what is being delivered to the DAC.


----------



## semeniub

I see the same, and DSD128 shows up as 352kHz in Mac Audio Midi. Interesting; never even thought of checking the Midi before during DSD playback.


----------



## semeniub

john57 said:


> According to Audirvana support;
> 
> _Audirvana Plus makes use of optimizations not known by regular CoreAudio (e.g. Integer Mode)._
> _Audio Midi Setup is using the standard CoreAudio functions to retrieve its information that then may not be correct during Audirvana Plus playback_
> ...


 

 Makes sense, thanks.


----------



## senorx12562

I'm very much enjoying the sound quality of the iDSD. Very resolving, great soundstage, (although not terribly wide), and for the most part (more below) a black background. This is with redbook-level files, using either Music Bee or Tidal, and with my HD600s. This is actually a very good pairing, as the 600s have enough detail retrieval to take advantage of the same characteristic of the iDSD. Same with the soundstage and instrument location in space,(especially with the 3D on).
  
 One anomaly though. On two different occasions now, I've been able to hear some very quiet clicks and pops in the background during and between songs. It sounded very similar to an old vinyl album ironically. I don't think its the same thing as others have reported because I don't have any DSD tracks (yet, I'll probably try at least one or two albums). Each time, it has been present no matter the settings of the iDSD. The first time it happened with Tidal, but when I switched to my collection, no noise.  I assumed it was more teething pains with Tidal (which I love overall). The second time was last night, and was present with any source. When I noticed it I was trying out some iems (w40, DJ-E1500, XBA-H100) for the first time with the iDSD, but it happened with the 600s as well. No noise today, so keeping my fingers crossed. I was very tired and decidedly unsober last night though, so who knows? It does work well and sound great w/ iems btw, but with this much power on tap (with most sources I can drive the 600s to listening volume on normal power mode at 12-2 o'clock), I'm going to have to remember to be careful with the settings so I don't deafen myself or send a set of iems flying out of my ears.
  
 I hated the 3d mode with the iDSD in preamp mode feeding a receiver and speakers through  the analog outs. It created some weird artifacts and sounded very unatural in this totally lo-fi set-up, but that's not what I got it for anyway. I'm still learning its sound and features, but so far, barring a repeat of the noise, two thumbs up.


----------



## vo_obgyn

john57 said:


> According to Audirvana support;
> 
> _Audirvana Plus makes use of optimizations not known by regular CoreAudio (e.g. Integer Mode)._
> _Audio Midi Setup is using the standard CoreAudio functions to retrieve its information that then may not be correct during Audirvana Plus playback_
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your help. I could not find the above information in the user manual, but Audirvana mentions it in the FAQ support section online. Thanks for pointing it out. 
  
 Before I had the above info, I was beginning to wonder two things:
  
 1.) Maybe Audirvana was down-sampling the DSD files to 176K.
 2.) Maybe the iDSD was not playing true DSD.
  
 I was not sure altogether, but I believe that I have it figured out. When using Audirvana, I get the same 176K reading in Audio MIDI setup when I have my Hugo connected as well.


----------



## vo_obgyn

semeniub said:


> I see the same, and DSD128 shows up as 352kHz in Mac Audio Midi. Interesting; never even thought of checking the Midi before during DSD playback.


 
  
 That is interesting. I agree. That was nice for john57 to point out what Audirvana says about the situation.


----------



## KmanChu

vo_obgyn said:


> I have a question for the forum. When I am playing DSD files the iDSD lights up cyan as expected. When I look at the MAC Audio MIDI setup, the frequency says 176,000 Hz Output format. Is that right, or should the Audio MIDI setup show a higher frequency than that? Just wondering. I am using Audirvana Plus with all the iFi recommended settings.


 
 It sounds like it is functioning properly and you are bitstreaming using DoP. When using the DoP signaling scheme it disguises the DSD64 signal as a 176k 24bit PCM stream so that the USB Audio 2.0 standard can be utilized for driverless function. Using the Windows ASIO driver you can avoid using DoP and stream directly, but I don't know if this is possible right now with Mac. I think exaSound makes an ASIO mac driver for their dacs, but they are the only one so far.


----------



## szymonsays

Stupid question, but will the micro iDSD be able to play high res mp3 files and flac? I will, however, also be looking into DSD some time in the near future.


----------



## vo_obgyn

kmanchu said:


> It sounds like it is functioning properly and you are bitstreaming using DoP. When using the DoP signaling scheme it disguises the DSD64 signal as a 176k 24bit PCM stream so that the USB Audio 2.0 standard can be utilized for driverless function. Using the Windows ASIO driver you can avoid using DoP and stream directly, but I don't know if this is possible right now with Mac. I think exaSound makes an ASIO mac driver for their dacs, but they are the only one so far.


 
  
 Hi KmanChu. Thanks for the reply. As noted above when I use Audirvana Plus, I get the same 176K reading in Audio MIDI setup on my Chord Hugo DAC as I do on the iFi micro iDSD when playing DSD files. So, I agree with you that the micro iDSD is functioning properly and that I am indeed bitstreaming using DoP. I appreciate your input.


----------



## BillsonChang007

szymonsays said:


> Stupid question, but will the micro iDSD be able to play high res mp3 files and flac? I will, however, also be looking into DSD some time in the near future.




It can play anything up to DSD512 and that includes any mp3, FLAC, etc. So as long as your software PC supports it (Foobar2000 supports all music formats if I am not mistaken).


----------



## iFi audio

john57 said:


> According to Audirvana support;
> 
> 
> _Audirvana Plus makes use of optimizations not known by regular CoreAudio (e.g. Integer Mode)._
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 This is indeed correct.
  
 The micro iDSD "only" plays what it is fed.
  
 The Computer is the Host. The micro iDSD is the Client.
  
 Hence, the micro iDSD plays what is incoming and the LED depicts as such.
  
 If the LED differs from what is expected, then 99.9%, check the PC settings because it is sending and what the user expects it to send are likely not the same.
  
 Hope this clarifies.


----------



## Sound Eq

I have few questions:
  
 1-I would like to ask if the bass when turned on in ifi micro dsd is better than the hugo, as I owned the hugo before and I found the bass a little lacking, so I having an option to extend the bass in ifi sounds good to me, but does have a good effect or is it just placebo effect
  
 2- can it drive the lcd2 rev2 with authority
  
 3- does it have a warm sound sig as I hate shouty mids especially when I turn on the volume to high
  
 4- does the bass have a great extension
  
 5- is the dac in the ifi micro dsd better than the idac in regards to sound signature
  
 6- is there any combination recommended to buy with and add to idsd to improve sound


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> I have few questions:
> 
> 1-I would like to ask if the bass when turned on in ifi micro dsd is better than the hugo, as I owned the hugo before and I found the bass a little lacking, so I having an option to extend the bass in ifi sounds good to me, but does have a good effect or is it just placebo effect
> 
> ...




1- I don't know
2- Yes
3- Slightly warm mids overall, slightly south of neutral with less emphasis on upper midrange relative to lower midrange
4- Very. If it's not enough, the XBass option is lovely for increased subbass 
5- It's better overall in musicality and technicality. Not as warm though if that's what you're looking for
6- Some still decide on an external headphone amp, surely not for the lack of power but for the final pieces of added synergy with their headphones. Having heard them with the LCD-2 (not sure what revision, for that pairing, my only problem was the LCD-2's soundstage width and openness (or lack thereof).


----------



## Sound Eq

maricius said:


> 1- I don't know
> 2- Yes
> 3- Slightly warm mids overall, slightly south of neutral with less emphasis on upper midrange relative to lower midrange
> 4- Very. If it's not enough, the XBass option is lovely for increased subbass
> ...


 

 I love warm sound signatures, but since I want to be transportable I guess the idac will not work for me as it does not have a battery and so I can not use it on the go
  
 I am open to add an amp to the idsd but is the ican micro suitable for this, and does the ican micro have a battery I guess not ?
  
 now I bought the hugo as I mentioned before and then I bought the denon da-10 and in my last purchase I was disappointed  so not I am in the hunt for a warm lush sound am/dac and I hope idsd will meet those needs, and what I like most is that it has the bass boost which in some song I need more bass
  
 any bad things or negatives I should know ahead before jumping into buying it and using it with my ipod and audeze lcd2rev2
  
 also if I may ask again tunring on the bass on in idsd does it really make a big difference in bass as that is really important for me to know, as I mentioned I am a bass lover and I find most dac/amp lack in bass quantity


----------



## technobear

szymonsays said:


> Stupid question, but will the micro iDSD be able to play high res mp3 files and flac? I will, however, also be looking into DSD some time in the near future.




Just to add a bit more to this...

DACs do not decode audio file formats.

Player software decodes the audio file format and outputs a bitstream - either PCM or DSD - to the DAC.

DACs receive PCM or DSD bitstreams and convert to analogue audio.


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> I love warm sound signatures, but since I want to be transportable I guess the idac will not work for me as it does not have a battery and so I can not use it on the go
> 
> I am open to add an amp to the idsd but is the ican micro suitable for this, and does the ican micro have a battery I guess not ?
> 
> ...




I'm assuming this is an iPod Touch running at least iOS7?? If you're not going to utilize the DAC, you're surely not going to get that warm and lush sound. The amp alone is on the leaner side. As a DAC/amp, very enjoyable synergy for me. The micro iCan doesn't have a battery unless you're willing to lug around those giant external batteries that can power it. Tons of powerful bassy amps on the market!! You have the Triad L3, RSA Intruder, maybe the CL Duet, or maybe that giant transportable Bakoon amp.

Good luck!! Maybe some of the more experienced members can chime in?


----------



## GradoSound

sound eq said:


> also if I may ask again tunring on the bass on in idsd does it really make a big difference in bass as that is really important for me to know, as I mentioned I am a bass lover and I find most dac/amp lack in bass quantity


 
 micro iDSD's bass extension is subtle but recognisable and tight; I really like it (as opposed to 3D which sounds weird/disorienting). If you are into really bass heavy music another option could be to pick a player with flexible DSP extensions such as JRiver media player.


----------



## BillsonChang007

The Micro iDSD is a ted warm as a whole but not extremely warm. As a standalone amp with Micro iDSD, it is a ted thin IMO. Power wise, it can drive anything. 4k mW is a lot for a headphone  it's all about the synergy as well thought


----------



## knorris908

sound eq said:


> I have few questions:
> 
> 1-I would like to ask if the bass when turned on in ifi micro dsd is better than the hugo, as I owned the hugo before and I found the bass a little lacking, so I having an option to extend the bass in ifi sounds good to me, but does have a good effect or is it just placebo effect
> A: I don't know personally, but hear that the iDSD offers ~99% of the sound quality while only costing 20% of the HUGO price. (I'm very satisfied with that.)
> ...


----------



## Ookazi

If you find yourself having trouble instantly telling what the position of the volume knob is, I recommend putting a small piece of colored tape at the spot where the knob begins to grow wider.
  
 Did anyone try to modify their iDSD visually yet? I was thinking about a black enclosure or something like that.


----------



## Sound Eq

thanks you all for your answer, but one person commented that it might have a thin sound signature, now that is something if possible to be explained more as that is something i care for a lot, as I like full rich warm sound signatures, and that is what I found in the hugo when i had that it was a bit thin in sound signature, so i don't want to fall into this issue again with the idsd especially as i am gong to use it with my audeze lcd2rev2 and iPod touch 5 with cck 
  
 please answers to the above is appreciated


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> thanks you all for your answer, but one person commented that it might have a thin sound signature, now that is something if possible to be explained more as that is something i care for a lot, as I like full rich warm sound signatures, and that is what I found in the hugo when i had that it was a bit thin in sound signature, so i don't want to fall into this issue again with the idsd especially as i am gong to use it with my audeze lcd2rev2 and iPod touch 5 with cck
> 
> please answers to the above is appreciated




No. Don't get me wrong. The Micro iDSD is warm if you use it as an amp/DAC which is what you are going for. But as a standalone amplifier only, it may sound thin. Given that you are using CCK, means you will be using both it's amp and DAC, the Micro iDSD should be a good match for your Audeze. 

Billson


----------



## Poimandres

My IDSD is still burning in about 48 hours so far. Is 100 the magic number or are there additional changes after that?

How does it pair with the X2? Thinking of picking up a pair or possibly the nad HP50, or akg q701 any thoughts?


----------



## vo_obgyn

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is indeed correct.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, this helps. Thanks.


----------



## Sound Eq

i know i have asked so many question did anyone compare it to centrance m8 
  
 could i get a little bit more clarification about the bass boost from reading the thread some mention its not that big impact when turned on, i really hope people here can give me a better idea what to expect with bass on and off and what the impact is


----------



## maricius

poimandres said:


> My IDSD is still burning in about 48 hours so far. Is 100 the magic number or are there additional changes after that?
> 
> How does it pair with the X2? Thinking of picking up a pair or possibly the nad HP50, or akg q701 any thoughts?


 

 Most changes occur up to 100. I've read that dynamics can still improve with up to 400 hours of burn in though I can't say I can hear that well. Anyway, after the 100 hour mark, everything else should be minute and gradual so yes, you can fully enjoy your iDSD without fear of sudden losses of quality after 100 hours. I don't recall anyone getting to pair it with the X2 yet though I'm very curious. Lieven at Headfonia.com should have both so maybe you can try catching some luck over there. I am very curious of that pairing as well. I didn't enjoy the AKG Q701 (though not paired with the iDSD). The NAD sounds great (not heard with the iDSD as well) but I hate its ergonomics and fit… not to mention the aesthetics… Michael Lavorgna at Audiostream mentioned a little something about the NAD/iDSD pairing. Check out his review on the iDSD. (Do get the X2 though hehe)
  
  


sound eq said:


> i know i have asked so many question did anyone compare it to centrance m8
> 
> could i get a little bit more clarification about the bass boost from reading the thread some mention its not that big impact when turned on, i really hope people here can give me a better idea what to expect with bass on and off and what the impact is


 

 The bass boost mostly affects the subbass. On tracks with decent amounts of this, the effect is immediately noticeable. With everything else, I strained to hear the differences in volume of reverbs.


----------



## Sound Eq

maricius said:


> Most changes occur up to 100. I've read that dynamics can still improve with up to 400 hours of burn in though I can't say I can hear that well. Anyway, after the 100 hour mark, everything else should be minute and gradual so yes, you can fully enjoy your iDSD without fear of sudden losses of quality after 100 hours. I don't recall anyone getting to pair it with the X2 yet though I'm very curious. Lieven at Headfonia.com should have both so maybe you can try catching some luck over there. I am very curious of that pairing as well. I didn't enjoy the AKG Q701 (though not paired with the iDSD). The NAD sounds great (not heard with the iDSD as well) but I hate its ergonomics and fit… not to mention the aesthetics… Michael Lavorgna at Audiostream mentioned a little something about the NAD/iDSD pairing. Check out his review on the iDSD. (Do get the X2 though hehe)
> 
> 
> 
> The bass boost mostly affects the subbass. On tracks with decent amounts of this, the effect is immediately noticeable. With everything else, I strained to hear the differences in volume of reverbs.


 
 so the bass boost on fiio products like e18 gives a more pronounced effect than what i would get from the idsd bass boost, most synth pop music has the baselines in the 80 to 100 hz so the bass boost would not be that obvious then when turned on


----------



## CriticalTodd

poimandres said:


> How does it pair with the X2? Thinking of picking up a pair or possibly the nad HP50, or akg q701 any thoughts?


 I run with the HP50 and I think the combination sounds great-- and I haven't completed any extended burn-in with the iDSD yet.


----------



## knorris908

sound eq said:


> so the bass boost on fiio products like e18 gives a more pronounced effect than what i would get from the idsd bass boost, most synth pop music has the baselines in the 80 to 100 hz so the bass boost would not be that obvious then when turned on


 

 I'll take this one since I have both the FIIO e17 (Apple ver VS Android ver. as well as the iDSD Micro) 
  
 On the FIIO I slide the BASS to "4" and the GAIN to 12dB when I am using it as an AMP/DAC from my HTPC to my HD-650s when listening to J-POP, Top 40, Rock, & Some Jazz.  When I listen to Piano pieces like Josei("I See You While Playing The Piano (11.2MHz dsd + mp3)"), Chopin, or Instrumentals like Beethoven or Wagner/Mahler, I leave the Gain at 12dB, and drop the BASS to "2".
  
 On the iDSD Micro I flip the 3D to "ON", Flip the BASS BOOST to "ON", and push the POWER selector to "TURBO" for EVERYTHING but Piano and Opera.  Then I drop the BASS BOOST to "OFF" but leave the 3D "ON".
  
 For ANY other headphones I listen to, "RS-180", KOSS PORTA PRO (Modded), VMODA Bass-Freqs, UE Super.Fi3, Photive PH-BTX6 (Wired mode OR Bluetooth)
  
 e17 - I drop the GAIN to 6dB, and adjust the BASS between "-2", "0"/OFF & "+2" according to what genre I'm listening to.
  
 iDSD Micro -  I leave the POWER selector on "ECO" since it has more than enough power to drive any of them to louder than I want with room/power to spare. I leave the BASS Boost "OFF" because they are all bass-heavy phones to begin with.  (Even the Super.Fi3!)  The 3D I tend to leave "ON" no matter what.
  
 All of this is when the equalizer is set to "Equalizer-flat"/default.
  
 Ken N.


----------



## Sound Eq

ok i need ur help guys i bought the denon da10, which is a headphone dac/amp is the idsd an upgrade to the denon if someone can check its specs and even u don't own maybe from the specs does the idsd look like an upgrade


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> ok i need ur help guys i bought the denon da10, which is a headphone dac/amp is the idsd an upgrade to the denon if someone can check its specs and even u don't own maybe from the specs does the idsd look like an upgrade




On paper, the Micro iDSD is better but it's not just all about paper when it comes to sound


----------



## Incognito73

Surely enough, It must be that iDSD Micro is design by someone with a good ear for music! These days finding remotely musical DAC within such price bracket is a challenge indeed. I don't want to bash other brand, but in good faith I'm somewhat pleased  that I didn't opt for Geek Pulse hype ... as I believe that Micro offers so much more for much less outlay.
  
 It's wonderful pairing with HD600 by the way! I can't remember when was the last time that I fall asleep with the headphones on. I was using my HTC One as source and that's ultimately huge Micro advantage - portability! You can simply unhook it from the main system and take the same wonderful sonic signature with you and wherever you fancy.
  
 XBass is so useful for low volume listening and really helpful for bass shy headphones. 3D is still a bit puzzling for me. It's properly designed spatialization effect and it's very effective with some sources but then again it may introduce fatigue (treble namely) with some other sources, but it's huge fun nevertheless. Have to test it a bit more. If anyone is using PC for gaming, 3D + XBass are amazing when paired, by the way!


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> I love warm sound signatures, but since I want to be transportable I guess the idac will not work for me as it does not have a battery and so I can not use it on the go
> 
> I am open to add an amp to the idsd but is the ican micro suitable for this, and does the ican micro have a battery I guess not ?
> 
> ...


 I have the nano iDSD now and it's bass is very sufficient for me, and the nano has no bass boost. So what more of there is? This experience of mine is the reason why I'm planning to get the micro iDSD. 

Still interested in others' replies to you though. 

Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

Show a little leg...can you guess what "it" is?​ We took our time as “it” needs to look and feel special. Over the last few months, We went through nearly a hundred or so versions.​​ ​ At iFi, we don’t do things by half. Well, we think we have accomplished our objective – and then some.​​ ​ What is it?​​  

http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/iclub-show-a-little-leg/​


----------



## GradoSound

poimandres said:


> How does it pair with the X2? Thinking of picking up a pair or possibly the nad HP50, or akg q701 any thoughts?


 
 I have been using micro with NAD HP50 for two weeks now and the match is wonderful. Excellent detail and very musical bass (if you need unusually/artificially strong bass NAD may not be your can)
  
 My typical listening volume is around 11am-12pm, power=eco, IEmatch=off


----------



## hifi25nl

I have just ordered the Micro iDSD.
 I would like to connect my Metrum Octave DAC to digital output and use iDSD mainly for DSD.
  
 Do you have some experiences with s-pdif output? Do you think that I could expect the same quality about jitter for example? Or s-pdif encoding could make it worse?


----------



## maricius

hifi25nl said:


> I have just ordered the Micro iDSD.
> I would like to connect my Metrum Octave DAC to digital output and use iDSD mainly for DSD.
> 
> Do you have some experiences with s-pdif output? Do you think that I could expect the same quality about jitter for example? Or s-pdif encoding could make it worse?


 

 SPDIF and Coaxial is limited to PCM 24/192. If you want native DSD all throughout (no conversions to PCM), your iDSD has to be connected to your source via USB. 
  
 Regarding jitter, iFi posted a while back that their USB and SPDIF/Coaxial jitter is equally and very very low.


----------



## hifi25nl

Perfect! My iDSD will always be connected to USB and my Metrum Octave is 24/192.
  
 What I would like to know also is if the analogue output of micro iDSD is disconnected when spdif output is connected to external DAC.
 Or is it capable of playing at the same time from spdif output using external DAC and analogue output using internal DAC?
 If not, switching off the external DAC would output the analogue signal out with spdif cable connected?


----------



## maricius

I actually don't know.


----------



## iFi audio

hifi25nl said:


> I have just ordered the Micro iDSD.
> I would like to connect my Metrum Octave DAC to digital output and use iDSD mainly for DSD.
> 
> 
> Do you have some experiences with s-pdif output? Do you think that I could expect the same quality about jitter for example? Or s-pdif encoding could make it worse?


 

 Hi,
  
 The iDSD outputs SPDIF whenever the USB connection is playing a PCM stream between 44.1 & 192kHz.
  
 Simply connect the output to your DAC.
  
 The analogue output from the iDSD remains fully operational if the SPDIF output is used.
  
 As the iDSD includes the "Bitperfect" filter for PCM, which operates in a fashion similar (if not exactly equal) to the early 80's non-oversampling employed by your DAC you may wish to specifcially compare the iDSD in bitperfect mode with your DAC.
  
 This also answers the other question!


----------



## CriticalTodd

gradosound said:


> I have been using micro with NAD HP50 for two weeks now and the match is wonderful. Excellent detail and very musical bass (if you need unusually/artificially strong bass NAD may not be your can)
> 
> My typical listening volume is around 11am-12pm, power=eco, IEmatch=off


 +1 though I don't make it past 10am or so on the volume. It's a great pairing.


----------



## vo_obgyn

ifi audio said:


> Show a little leg...can you guess what "it" is?​ We took our time as “it” needs to look and feel special. Over the last few months, We went through nearly a hundred or so versions.​​ ​ At iFi, we don’t do things by half. Well, we think we have accomplished our objective – and then some.​​ ​ What is it?​​
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/iclub-show-a-little-leg/​


 
  
  
 So, what does the HeadFi community think this might be? I'm not sure. It looks like a credit card.


----------



## Ookazi

If I remember correctly there was a driver update released for the iClub members only. Is it still in the beta (for normal costumers) or did I miss something?


----------



## Dixter

vo_obgyn said:


> So, what does the HeadFi community think this might be? I'm not sure. It looks like a credit card.


 

 I'm not sure what it is but I'm hoping it to be a cradle or something that mates the iphone 6 plus with the micro to give the iphone a support platform for micro use...


----------



## RadioWonder737

vo_obgyn said:


> So, what does the HeadFi community think this might be? I'm not sure. It looks like a credit card.


 
 "it" is more likely an iClub ID Card... So you can flash it when you are invited to an iFi Function like the last iFi Dinner or when you show up at an iFi Audio Show and demo the latest iFi Audio gear...


----------



## jexby

radiowonder737 said:


> "it" is more likely an iClub ID Card... So you can flash it when you are invited to an iFi Function like the last iFi Dinner or when you show up at an iFi Audio Show and demo the latest iFi Audio gear...


 
  
 i hope it's a virtual iClub card:  via IOS app or Android application.
 no more room in my wallet for another slab of plastic.


----------



## RadioWonder737

jexby said:


> i hope it's a virtual iClub card:  via IOS app or Android application.
> no more room in my wallet for another slab of plastic.


 
 Sounds like you need a "Man Purse"... LOL... Or it could be what you suggested...


----------



## RadioWonder737

Not everyone is going to show up in their Octa T-Shirt at an iFi Audio event... So an iFi Audio iClub ID Card would be a great idea...


----------



## tf1216

Maybe it has a unique barcode for free tunes.


----------



## RadioWonder737

I don't see one Octa T-Shirt at this iClub Dinner...


----------



## BillsonChang007

ookazi said:


> If I remember correctly there was a driver update released for the iClub members only. Is it still in the beta (for normal costumers) or did I miss something?




I have tried installing the driver several time on my Window 7 PC but if have failed several time. Waiting for the iFi Team to respond. Not sure if I am the only one thought. 

As for the exclusive, guessing it to be an ID card


----------



## Amlalsulami

Hello,
  
 Guy's I have Astell&Kern AK120 and my Micro iDSD its on my way to me, But i have question what is the best DAC is AK120 the best or Micro iDSD?


----------



## BillsonChang007

amlalsulami said:


> Hello,
> 
> Guy's I have Astell&Kern AK120 and my Micro iDSD its on my way to me, But i have question what is the best DAC is AK120 the best or Micro iDSD?




Best to try it yourself  but I see AK120 is using WM8740. I believe on paper, the Micro iDSD's DAC is better but then again, there are things that look good on paper but don't perform well in real life and vice versa.


----------



## Amlalsulami

billsonchang007 said:


> Best to try it yourself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 But if i want use Micro iDSD as a DAC should be get cable mini toslink to mini toslink 
 Where can i find custom cable mini toslink to mini toslink?


----------



## technobear

amlalsulami said:


> Where can i find custom cable mini toslink to mini toslink?




You could try searching...

http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A7x9QaVV9I1Sh2wAy8RLBQx.?p=mini+toslink+to+mini+toslink&fr2=sb-top&fr=sfp&rd=r1

Here are a couple...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toslink-Mini-TOS-Optical-Cable-Lead-3-5mm-SPDIF-1Mtr-/250769037469

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1m-TosLink-Optical-Audio-3-5mm-mini-Male-to-Male-Cable-Lead-gold-plated-black-/150842155196

Or you could use a mini-toslink to toslink cable with a toslink to mini-toslink adaptor...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toslink-Cable-Lead-Optical-Digital-Adapter-to-3-5mm-Audio-Mini-Jack-Plug-Adapter-/131250552320


----------



## BillsonChang007

technobear said:


> You could try searching...
> 
> http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A7x9QaVV9I1Sh2wAy8RLBQx.?p=mini+toslink+to+mini+toslink&fr2=sb-top&fr=sfp&rd=r1
> 
> ...




Thank you technobar! Amlalsulami, I suggest you to look into those links too!


----------



## h1f1add1cted

amlalsulami said:


> But if i want use Micro iDSD as a DAC should be get cable mini toslink to mini toslink
> Where can i find custom cable mini toslink to mini toslink?


 

 Simply get an FiiO L12S cable


----------



## Amlalsulami

technobear said:


> You could try searching...
> 
> http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A7x9QaVV9I1Sh2wAy8RLBQx.?p=mini+toslink+to+mini+toslink&fr2=sb-top&fr=sfp&rd=r1
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for your help, But if h get a mini-toslink to toslink cable with a toslink to mini-toslink adaptor they can play file up to 97 and i most my play is 192,DSD


----------



## iFi audio

amlalsulami said:


> Thank you for your help, But if h get a mini-toslink to toslink cable with a toslink to mini-toslink adaptor they can play file up to 97 and i most my play is 192,DSD


 

 Hi,
  
 Just to confirm, optical is reliable up to 96kHz. It is possible to go higher but will vary from one setup (cables etc) to another.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Turrican2

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






ifi audio said:


> Show a little leg...can you guess what "it" is?​ We took our time as “it” needs to look and feel special. Over the last few months, We went through nearly a hundred or so versions.​​ ​ At iFi, we don’t do things by half. Well, we think we have accomplished our objective – and then some.​​ ​ What is it?​​
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/iclub-show-a-little-leg/​


 
  


 An iphone 6 plus case which acts as a stand so the idsd can slide underneath?


----------



## Amlalsulami

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just to confirm, optical is reliable up to 96kHz. It is possible to go higher but will vary from one setup (cables etc) to another.
> 
> Cheers.


 
  
 Hi,
 You mean if i want 192,DSD file should be used cable mini jack to mini jack?


----------



## technobear

amlalsulami said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...




You mention DSD again.

You cannot send DSD over S/P-DIF, neither coax nor toslink.

Edit: also, the iDSD will not convert DSD to PCM. If you want to use your external DAC, you can only play PCM files.


----------



## Amlalsulami

technobear said:


> You mention DSD again.
> 
> You cannot send DSD over S/P-DIF, neither coax nor toslink.
> 
> Edit: also, the iDSD will not convert DSD to PCM. If you want to use your external DAC, you can only play PCM files.


 
 I'm really Sorry i don't understand you,
 If i want use audio file that i mention before like DSD,192k with my AK120 and iDSD? What i need to use cable mini jack to mini jack or what


----------



## BillsonChang007

amlalsulami said:


> I'm really Sorry i don't understand you,
> If i want use audio file that i mention before like DSD,192k with my AK120 and iDSD? What i need to use cable mini jack to mini jack or what




Technically, you can't at the moment. You need to connect via USB to the iDSD in order to play DSD.


----------



## Amlalsulami

billsonchang007 said:


> Technically, you can't at the moment. You need to connect via USB to the iDSD in order to play DSD.


 
 Why i can't? The iDSD support up to DSD and also AK120 support up to DSD


----------



## BillsonChang007

amlalsulami said:


> Why i can't? The iDSD support up to DSD and also AK120 support up to DSD




So far, only connection via USB will be able to play DSD files. I believe this appiles to all exsisting DACs that support DSD playback. Also, if I am mistaken, AK120 does not play true native DSD, it is downsampled to PCM if I am not mistaken. iDSD plays true native DSD thought but only when connected via USB as mentioned.


----------



## iFi audio

amlalsulami said:


> Why i can't? The iDSD support up to DSD and also AK120 support up to DSD


 

 Hi,
  
 There is no industry standard for manufacturers to adhere to for the transmission of DSD via SPDIF.
  
 Hence, if it works great but there is no industry standard/guidelines/handshake etc etc.


----------



## Amlalsulami

billsonchang007 said:


> So far, only connection via USB will be able to play DSD files. I believe this appiles to all exsisting DACs that support DSD playback. Also, if I am mistaken, AK120 does not play true native DSD, it is downsampled to PCM if I am not mistaken. iDSD plays true native DSD thought but only when connected via USB as mentioned.







ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> There is no industry standard for manufacturers to adhere to for the transmission of DSD via SPDIF.
> 
> Hence, if it works great but there is no industry standard/guidelines/handshake etc etc.




Okay, But what is the best way to connect AK120 with iDSD?


----------



## iFi audio

amlalsulami said:


> Okay, But what is the best way to connect AK120 with iDSD?


 

 Hi,
  
 Best you confirm with A&K directly but we can only see one output: Optical.
  
 The others are analogue outputs.


----------



## Amlalsulami

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Best you confirm with A&K directly but we can only see one output: Optical.
> 
> The others are analogue outputs.




But i can use 3.5mm to 3.5mm right?


----------



## iFi audio

amlalsulami said:


> But i can use 3.5mm to 3.5mm right?


 

 Hi,
  
 Yes but that is analogue not digital of course which means the A&K has done the conversion.
  
 Information on what happens to the signal inside the A&K is found here:
 http://www.astellnkern.com/
  
 Click on A&K120 and then scroll down to:
  
 "Supports DSD format up to 5.6MHz"
  
 We met the A&K (USA) team at RMAF. They are really nice guys.
  
 If you have any questions on the A&K, best you contact them as they are ones in the know.
  
 If you like, drop us PM and we can direct you.


----------



## Incognito73

Micro is excellent USB PCM converter, if anyone is after digital outputs. It was certainly better, in my case, then M2Tech HiFace. Speaking of DSD via Coax/Toslink/AES it's not possible nor it will ever be. Let alone the licensing issues, you are limited by 192hkz bandwidth and master-clock design. Most certainly, one way would be that DSD files are encapsulated into FLAC contained DOP (Micro should be fine with 24/176 over digital out)  ... but that needs to be tested.
  
 Most reliable way to transfer DSD "digitally" to Micro is via USB OTG compatible DAPs. I didn't test Micro as straight forward headphone amp only (in case that one is using line level outputs from other devices) but I have no doubts that sound quality will suffer compared to direct USB mode.


----------



## Turrican2

amlalsulami said:


> But i can use 3.5mm to 3.5mm right?


 
 you can connect the AK120 to the iDSD via an SPDIF (with 3.5mm adapters on each end) but you will be limited to passing through NON dsd files, e.g. flac, wav, mp3 etc. Will still be worth doing I'm sure


----------



## DJBaila

amlalsulami said:


> But if i want use Micro iDSD as a DAC should be get cable mini toslink to mini toslink
> Where can i find custom cable mini toslink to mini toslink?


 
 I got this one, works great and is cheap:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C5DY1JQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## technobear

amlalsulami said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > You mention DSD again.
> ...




iDSD supports DSD - YES

AK120 supports DSD - YES by conversion to PCM

Toslink supports DSD - NO

Coax supports DSD - NO

USB supports DSD - YES (using compatible drivers)

Clear?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

How long does it take typically to get a reply from the iFi support? I'm waiting since 2 days, but no reply so far. What I don't understand I select Technical department on creation a ticket, but in my created ticket it's assigned to sales department? I hope soon I get help, can't use my sweet mobile DAC/AMP combo since a while.

 I bought few weeks ago the micro iDSD, but since a while it disconnects from my smartphone using UAPP (the nano iDSD on the same smartphone has no issues - so it's obvious a problem with the micro iDSD).


----------



## tf1216

h1f1add1cted said:


> How long does it take typically to get a reply from the iFi support? I'm waiting since 2 days, but no reply so far. What I don't understand I select Technical department on creation a ticket, but in my created ticket it's assigned to sales department? I hope soon I get help, can't use my sweet mobile DAC/AMP combo since a while.
> 
> I bought few weeks ago the micro iDSD, but since a while it disconnects from my smartphone using UAPP (the nano iDSD on the same smartphone has no issues - so it's obvious a problem with the micro iDSD).


 
  
 Did you buy a cheap OTG cable?  I had the same problem with the cable I purchased.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I tried 3 different ones... from different brands too. The nano iDSD works without issues... all details in my ticket, I don't want to make this public, iFi should have a look, but thanks for you input.


----------



## tf1216

What I did to fix the problem was wrap a few layers of electrical tape around the outside of the connector that inserted into the iDSD.  Now things work without fail.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> I tried 3 different ones... from different brands too. The nano iDSD works without issues... all details in my ticket, I don't want to make this public, iFi should have a look, but thanks for you input.


 

 Hi,
  
 Dont worry.
  
 Drop us a PM with your name and we'll chase up the tech side.
  
 Or you can email tech@ifi-audio.com
  
 We dont normally miss support tickets - or it may be that we had to ask someone senior.
  
 Thanks


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Thank you, PM sent, fingers crossed that we found a solution.


----------



## If6was9

h1f1add1cted said:


> How long does it take typically to get a reply from the iFi support? I'm waiting since 2 days, but no reply so far. What I don't understand I select Technical department on creation a ticket, but in my created ticket it's assigned to sales department? I hope soon I get help, can't use my sweet mobile DAC/AMP combo since a while.
> 
> 
> I bought few weeks ago the micro iDSD, but since a while it disconnects from my smartphone using UAPP (the nano iDSD on the same smartphone has no issues - so it's obvious a problem with the micro iDSD).




I also had the same problem,
But I solve this problem (I was going crazy),

With my smartphone Xperia Z3 and Micro iDSD, disabling the app "Smart Connect"
when UAPP playng, this starts spinning in the background, and the Micro iDSD disconnect !!!
On the smartphone, Options-->Apps-->"Smart Connect" select: Terminate and Disable.
Now is all okay. 


P.S.
Sorry for my bad English
From Italy, Massimo


----------



## Amlalsulami

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes but that is analogue not digital of course which means the A&K has done the conversion.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


turrican2 said:


> you can connect the AK120 to the iDSD via an SPDIF (with 3.5mm adapters on each end) but you will be limited to passing through NON dsd files, e.g. flac, wav, mp3 etc. Will still be worth doing I'm sure


 
  
  


djbaila said:


> I got this one, works great and is cheap:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C5DY1JQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 
  
  


technobear said:


> iDSD supports DSD - YES
> 
> AK120 supports DSD - YES by conversion to PCM
> 
> ...


 
  
  
Thank you !!!, I really appreciate you guy's
  
 But i have last two questions ,
 1- If i use my AK120 to connect Micro iDSD between them with a cable 3.5mm-3.5mm the audio file will support up to what? 96hz like the toslink or 192k
 2- If i use my AK120 to connect Micro iDSD between them with a cable 3.5mm-3.5mm that mean i use the DAC of my AK120? Right
  
  
 Sorry about my questions.


----------



## Turrican2

amlalsulami said:


> [COLOR=0000FF]Thank you !!!, I really appreciate you guy's[/COLOR]
> 
> But i have last two questions ,
> 1- If i use my AK120 to connect Micro iDSD between them with a cable 3.5mm-3.5mm the audio file will support up to what? 96hz like the toslink or 192k
> ...




Assuming you mean 3.5mm non optical cable

1-you'll get whatever the AK120 is playing, as it's doing the digital analogue conversion, the iDSD at this point is an amp only
2-right


----------



## Amlalsulami

turrican2 said:


> Assuming you mean 3.5mm non optical cable
> 
> 1-you'll get whatever the AK120 is playing, as it's doing the digital analogue conversion, the iDSD at this point is an amp only
> 2-right




Yeah i mean mini jack to mini jack 3.5 to 3.5
So you mean support until 192k?


----------



## diamondears

What's considered out there to be the best player without a DAC and amp? No DAC and amp would I guess make it a lot cheaper. No phone too, so very cheap... 

So just the best player I can attach to my micro iDSD? Any suggestions?


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> What's considered out there to be the best player without a DAC and amp? No DAC and amp would I guess *make it a lot cheaper*. No phone too, so very cheap...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not really.
  
 A player without DAC and amp is just a digital transport and totally useless to the majority of user. That means the customer base will be severely limited and therefore it is by definition a niche product. As with any niche product, you need to have a very high markup in order to make money, since you will not make any money by volume.
  
 Putting the above aside, if you are just looking for a pure player, FiiO X3 or iBasso DX50 both output S/PDIF. The new Sony A10 series has OTG USB function that can work with iDSD with the official Sony OTG adapter. However, the cheapest way is probably with a cheap Android smartphone that can do OTG USB, with USB Audio Player PRO installed..


----------



## mogulmaster

I have noticed there is a delay between the audio from the computer and the micro -- this puts a noticeable lag of audio for movies which kinda sucks. Any fix?


----------



## mogulmaster

Also where can i buy DSD music?


----------



## knorris908

mogulmaster said:


> I have noticed there is a delay between the audio from the computer and the micro -- this puts a noticeable lag of audio for movies which kinda sucks. Any fix?


 

 I've used my iDSD Micro with movies, Netflix, Amazon Instant video, Torrent Animes (VLC Player)  Never had a problem.  Worked perfectly with no noticeable lag.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> Not really.
> 
> A player without DAC and amp is just a digital transport and totally useless to the majority of user. That means the customer base will be severely limited and therefore it is by definition a niche product. As with any niche product, you need to have a very high markup in order to make money, since you will not make any money by volume.
> 
> Putting the above aside, if you are just looking for a pure player, FiiO X3 or iBasso DX50 both output S/PDIF. The new Sony A10 series has OTG USB function that can work with iDSD with the official Sony OTG adapter. However, the cheapest way is probably with a cheap Android smartphone that can do OTG USB, with USB Audio Player PRO installed..


 Thanks for the reply, ClieOS. 

Maybe iFi should think of making that. It would be great to have that and stack it with the micro iDSD. 

Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

mogulmaster said:


> I have noticed there is a delay between the audio from the computer and the micro -- this puts a noticeable lag of audio for movies which kinda sucks. Any fix?


 

 Hi,
  
 Almost all video players have the ability to adjust the delay between video and audio streams.
  
 Just locate it and adjust it.
  
 You can also reduce the buffer numbers.
  
 Hope this helps with your setup.


----------



## maricius

I borrowed my friend's RE400 to try with my micro iDSD. Synergy is pretty good. My only wishes would be for a larger overall soundstage (though pretty decent for an IEM) and more subbass extension (not enough XBass on) I'm unsure if this is considered "neutral bass." The midrange of the pairing is very natural sounding, clear but with the right amount of warmth.


----------



## Sound Eq

it seems according to this website the idsd does not drive audeze lcd2rev2
  
 http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/audeze/lcd-2/with/ifi-audio/micro-idsd


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> it seems according to this website the idsd does not drive audeze lcd2rev2
> 
> http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/audeze/lcd-2/with/ifi-audio/micro-idsd


 
  
 If you look at the number on LCD2 with E12 (which is a little less power than iDSD micro actually), that website actually says E12 is adequate. So the question is, how does it reaches the conclusion that a lesser powerful portable amp can drive a particular can but not a more powerful amp? My answer is, you probably shouldn't put too much stock into that website.


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> If you look at the number on LCD2 with E12 (which is a little less power than iDSD micro actually), that website actually says E12 is adequate. So the question is, how does it reaches the conclusion that a lesser powerful portable amp can drive a particular can but not a more powerful amp? My answer is, you probably shouldn't put too much stock into that website.


 

 Hi,
  
 There are 3 different power modes. The calculations do not take into account of this.
  
 The micro iDSD drives the LCD-2 to 120dB!
  
 We demo with LCD-X and if it works for us and Alex Rosson, then we are happy campers.


----------



## iFi audio

double-posted.


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi audio said:


>


 
  


ifi audio said:


>


 

 yeah i am sold and awaiting for a supplier to get it in stock


----------



## Misterrogers

iFi - if I can ask; will these units really be in stock soon? Seems a most sellers are in 'any day now' mode.


----------



## warrior1975

sound eq said:


> yeah i am sold and awaiting for a supplier to get it in stock




Good luck bro, I hope this ends your search finally. Definitely interested in your findings.

I'm thinking of getting this for my X3 and X1. Should be a nice upgrade in sound. Also wondering, if I used it for my AK240, I'd be better off using just the amp section? I love the sound of my 240, not looking to change the signature, just amp it a little. Anyone tell me how I could do that? I think just the HO of it? If I use the LO would I be bypassing both amp and DAC of the 240?


----------



## senorx12562

warrior1975 said:


> Good luck bro, I hope this ends your search finally. Definitely interested in your findings.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting this for my X3 and X1. Should be a nice upgrade in sound. Also wondering, if I used it for my AK240, I'd be better off using just the amp section? I love the sound of my 240, not looking to change the signature, just amp it a little. Anyone tell me how I could do that? I think just the HO of it? If I use the LO would I be bypassing both amp and DAC of the 240?


 
 Just a male 3.5 mm to male 3.5mm from headphone out to 3.5 mm in on front plate of the micro will use just the amp section of the micro with the dac of the 240, if that's what you want.


----------



## iFi audio

misterrogers said:


> iFi - if I can ask; will these units really be in stock soon? Seems a most sellers are in 'any day now' mode.


 

 Hi,
  
 Sorry for the wait.
  
 RMAF was a major boost for the micro iDSD.
  
 Especially in the USA where things went a little nuts.
  
 Our dealer/distributor network has ordered what they thought was plenty but it seems they under-estimated the spike in demand.
  
 We are doing our best - we shall speak to our network and ask them to order more extra units to take into account the upswing.
  
 Of course we do not know where each customer is in the waiting list but we hope you dont have to wait too long.


----------



## diamondears

Great great product, that's why. Seems like consumers believe in the micro iDSD bit more than the dealers...


----------



## john57

senorx12562 said:


> Just a male 3.5 mm to male 3.5mm from headphone out to 3.5 mm in on front plate of the micro will use just the amp section of the micro with the dac of the 240, if that's what you want.


 
 I have done this when I brought my micro to the RMAF show and it worked quite well.


----------



## Sound Eq

warrior1975 said:


> Good luck bro, I hope this ends your search finally. Definitely interested in your findings.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting this for my X3 and X1. Should be a nice upgrade in sound. Also wondering, if I used it for my AK240, I'd be better off using just the amp section? I love the sound of my 240, not looking to change the signature, just amp it a little. Anyone tell me how I could do that? I think just the HO of it? If I use the LO would I be bypassing both amp and DAC of the 240?


 

 i have to admit that i am a very critical person, and even the chord hugo with all its glory got my my share of criticism but i hope to send a message to the community,  which is that a lot of people love to get great sound with amazing bass, warmth, rich, layered and detailed and some coloration that is musical is also welcomed for many people seek, besides the neutral flat sound sig that now audiophiles are keep asking for. I know my journey will not end with idsd, but who knows what will come out when i get my hands on it so thread members here look for my feedback in 10 days from now, and especially who have audeze lcd2rev2 and listen to synth pop, metal, progressive rock


----------



## hifi25nl

I know that this has been discussed a lot, but I would like to know the exact sequence for enabling battery power.  For example, is this correct?
  
 1) switch on iDSD
 2) switch on computer
 After listening:
 3) switch off computer
 4) switch off iDSD --> usb charching from computer
  
 Is iDSD supposed to charge every time I poweroff my computer? Or after stage 4) charging will begin only if battery is under some percentage?
  
 I have also another problem: my computer is not charging the iDSD when both are switched off (no light).
 Maybe the problem is that iDSD is connected to Gefen USB extender (see --> http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-usb2.0-lr.jsp?prod_id=5529). The receiver extender where iDSD is connected is powered by his own power supply.The specifications .pdf is declaring "Receiver supports up to 2 USB powered connections at 500 mA each"
  
 As a last note in Windows 8.1 32 bit the last driver 2.3 is  not working (device not initialized). I see that in the .inf file is specified only 64 bit. However the prevoius driver is working correctly


----------



## john57

Om step 4 I just leave the iDSD on and it will go into standby in 15 minutes with no USB data signal. The LED will continue to be off until the battery is discharged unlikely as long there is USB power.  On my desktop PC I have the BIOS set to provide standby 5 volts to the USB ports at all time.


----------



## BillsonChang007

hifi25nl said:


> I know that this has been discussed a lot, but I would like to know the exact sequence for enabling battery power.  For example, is this correct?
> 
> 1) switch on iDSD
> 2) switch on computer
> ...




If you do not wish to use your Micro iDSD's built in battery, you can switch on the power AFTER you have connected to the running computer. That way, you can keep the Micro iDSD running after listening, just let it go into standby mode. 

As for 2.3 driver, I have tested it on my Window 7, 32-bit it doesn't work either but it appear to work on my Window 8.1, 64-bit. For now, it is best to stick with 2.0. 

Hope it helps! 
Billson


----------



## diamondears

Whichever power source is activated FIRST will be used by the iDSD.


----------



## LoryWiv

billsonchang007 said:


> If you do not wish to use your Micro iDSD's built in battery, you can switch on the power AFTER you have connected to the running computer. That way, you can keep the Micro iDSD running after listening, just let it go into standby mode.
> 
> As for 2.3 driver, I have tested it on my Window 7, 32-bit it doesn't work either but it appear to work on my Window 8.1, 64-bit. For now, it is best to stick with 2.0.
> 
> ...


 

  USB Driver 2.23 works under Win 7 64 bit as well. Definitely improves startup latency, as stated on download page. Perhaps they will release a win 32 version soon.
  
 Best.


----------



## iFi audio

hifi25nl said:


> I know that this has been discussed a lot, but I would like to know the exact sequence for enabling battery power.  For example, is this correct?
> 
> 
> 1) switch on iDSD
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Yes, we believe the extender is the most likely problem.
  
 First, the iDSD micro will only detect this as low power source and second, the voltage level of this may be too low.
  
 Adding a Orico Powered Hub with BC1.2 battery charging may be required. This has been document a few pages back.
  
 But you can read up here:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/orico-high-power-usb-hub-one-sure-way-to-feed-the-meaty-monster/
  
  
 "I know that this has been discussed a lot, but I would like to know the exact sequence for enabling battery power."
  
  
 If using this extender it does not matter when the PC is turned on. The actual detection in the iDSD relies on the presence of Bus Power. It means it needs to be turned on before power is applied to the USB input.
  
 If the v2.23.0 foes not work on your PC setup, default back to v2.20.0. We are offering both versions to cover all eventualities.

 Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> Whichever power source is activated FIRST will be used by the iDSD.


 

 Correct.
  
 In this case it is the Gefen USB extender and not the PC of course.


----------



## hifi25nl

I have fixed the problems connecting the micro directly to USB 3.0 output!


----------



## vo_obgyn

kmanchu said:


> It sounds like it is functioning properly and you are bitstreaming using DoP. When using the DoP signaling scheme it disguises the DSD64 signal as a 176k 24bit PCM stream so that the USB Audio 2.0 standard can be utilized for driverless function. Using the Windows ASIO driver you can avoid using DoP and stream directly, but I don't know if this is possible right now with Mac. I think exaSound makes an ASIO mac driver for their dacs, but they are the only one so far.


 
  
 Hi KmanChu. I found this other post that confirms what you said. Thanks for your help again. I have also noticed that my JRiver software shows my DSD files as 176K as well:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/553416/bitperfect-was-audirvana-alternatives/765
  
 see post 
 #766
  
 "An inherent problem of the DoP format is that for DSD64 it uses a 24/176.4 PCM stream, which the DAC has to announce.  ForDSD128 it is a 24/352.8 PCM stream.  However, as far as the computer is concerned, it has no way of knowing whether the DAC is announcing a DoP capability or a PCM capability.  Therefore, any DAC that supports DSD64 DoP really needs to also support 24/176.4 PCM, and likewise if it supports DSD128 DoP it really needs to support 24/352.8 PCM.  FYI, DSD256 DoP, if supported, would require a 24/705.6 PCM format!"
  
 I am posting this to follow-up on my initial inquiry as follows:
  
 "I have a question for the forum. When I am playing DSD files the iDSD lights up cyan as expected. When I look at the MAC Audio MIDI setup, the frequency says 176,000 Hz Output format. Is that right, or should the Audio MIDI setup show a higher frequency than that? Just wondering. I am using Audirvana Plus with all the iFi recommended settings."


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Finally got my paws on this.  A shout out to everyone who recommended the iDSD to me.  This little guy gets an A+.
  
 Unboxing video:


----------



## knorris908

Glad to hear you were able to get your paws on one!  My favorite DAC or portable AMP.  Notice I didn't say favorite PORTABLE DAC, as it's just better than any of the desktop solutions I have listened to.  (Which is why it is almost permanently connected to the media center in the Music/Home Theater room.)
  
 just wait until you let it burn in for a full day or three!  
  
 Congratulations!
  
 Ken N.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

My first encounter with iDSD was from Jude.  Without even hearing it yet, I was really impressed by the features set and build quality.  The USB input for iOS devices is brilliant!


----------



## dhinchcliffe

senorx12562 said:


> I'm very much enjoying the sound quality of the iDSD. Very resolving, great soundstage, (although not terribly wide), and for the most part (more below) a black background. This is with redbook-level files, using either Music Bee or Tidal, and with my HD600s. This is actually a very good pairing, as the 600s have enough detail retrieval to take advantage of the same characteristic of the iDSD. Same with the soundstage and instrument location in space,(especially with the 3D on).
> 
> One anomaly though. On two different occasions now, I've been able to hear some very quiet clicks and pops in the background during and between songs. It sounded very similar to an old vinyl album ironically. I don't think its the same thing as others have reported because I don't have any DSD tracks (yet, I'll probably try at least one or two albums). Each time, it has been present no matter the settings of the iDSD. The first time it happened with Tidal, but when I switched to my collection, no noise.  I assumed it was more teething pains with Tidal (which I love overall). The second time was last night, and was present with any source. When I noticed it I was trying out some iems (w40, DJ-E1500, XBA-H100) for the first time with the iDSD, but it happened with the 600s as well. No noise today, so keeping my fingers crossed. I was very tired and decidedly unsober last night though, so who knows? It does work well and sound great w/ iems btw, but with this much power on tap (with most sources I can drive the 600s to listening volume on normal power mode at 12-2 o'clock), I'm going to have to remember to be careful with the settings so I don't deafen myself or send a set of iems flying out of my ears.
> 
> I hated the 3d mode with the iDSD in preamp mode feeding a receiver and speakers through  the analog outs. It created some weird artifacts and sounded very unatural in this totally lo-fi set-up, but that's not what I got it for anyway. I'm still learning its sound and features, but so far, barring a repeat of the noise, two thumbs up. :atsmile:




I am hearing the same thing on my iDSD Micro. I seems dependent on the source, but is disconcerting for sure. I hear a steady pair of light clicks or pops every 5-10 seconds when I use my iPhone 6, Tidal, and iDSD Micro. Not strong but consistently there. Changed all the cables, and it was still there. Switching to my MacBook Air and the Tidal native app and it only happened once in 2 hours.

So, it's unclear if the iPhone 6 DAC output is just super jittery compare to the MacBook but the problem has been consistent for several days now.

Any suggestions on what other cabling or settings changes I could use are welcome.


----------



## senorx12562

The issue has not returned for me at all. I don't use my phone for music at all though. I'm waiting for male/male coax adapters so I can try the iDSD with the coax out of my X3. I've so far only used it with two different laptops. Post with more info please. Good Luck.


----------



## diamondears

I think I've sufficiently burned-in my iFi micro iDSD...and wow. Can't imagine something better than this. That iFi house sound is just plain great. I'd say the GREATEST house sound I've heard. Makes very very good sense that iFi insisted on that 1794 DSD1793DAC chip. And there's no sacrifice in details doing that, unbelievable. Details on all frequency ranges are all there, no trade-offs---lower bass, upper bass, lower midrange, upper midrange, lower treble, upper treble...alto, tenor, soprano......they're there. Anybody into headphones SHOULD try this marvel. Aplogies for the outburst...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Question for iFi/Mike: Would using Normal Power mode over Eco Mode have benefits, objectively and subjectively? Like more lower midrange and more overall bass body/mass, digs deeper into lower frequencies, etc.? Or does it just really affect the volume/knob/attenuator range?


----------



## BillsonChang007

diamondears said:


> I think I've sufficiently burned-in my iFi micro iDSD...and wow. Can't imagine something better than this. That iFi house sound is just plain great. I'd say the GREATEST house sound I've heard. Makes very very good sense that iFi insisted on that 1794 DAC chip. And there's no sacrifice in details doing that, unbelievable. Details on all frequency ranges are all there, no trade-offs---lower bass, upper bass, lower midrange, upper midrange, lower treble, upper treble...alto, tenor, soprano......they're there. Anybody into headphones SHOULD try this marvel. Aplogies for the outburst...:atsmile:
> 
> Question for iFi/Mike: Would using Normal Power mode over Eco Mode have benefits, objectively and subjectively? Like more lower midrange and more overall bass body/mass, digs deeper into lower frequencies, etc.? Or does it just really affect the volume/knob/attenuator range?




AFAIK, the power switch difference is only output power difference and small changes to the output impedance. 

Hope it helps!
Billson


----------



## maricius

DSD1793** DAC Chip hehe but I agree with your impressions. I've finally heard better though. It took a while. Chord QBD76 HDSD DAC feeding an HDVD800 (amp section) feeding a balanced HD800. Substantially better but that DAC alone cost around $7000 more… Overall, I have yet to come across a headphone or IEM that doesn't pair well or improve substantially with the iDSD, even the cheap Xiaomi Piston 2 or the Soundmagic ES20. It has great synergy as a whole system. I do wish to hear the Hugo.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> DSD1793** DAC Chip hehe but I agree with your impressions. I've finally heard better though. It took a while. Chord QBD76 HDSD DAC feeding an HDVD800 (amp section) feeding a balanced HD800. Substantially better but that DAC alone cost around $7000 more… Overall, I have yet to come across a headphone or IEM that doesn't pair well or improve substantially with the iDSD, even the cheap Xiaomi Piston 2 or the Soundmagic ES20. It has great synergy as a whole system. I do wish to hear the Hugo.


 

 Stand corrected...I'm not good on numbers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Hugo? You compared it with micro iDSD with same amp and same HP and same recording?


----------



## jexby

diamondears said:


> I think I've sufficiently burned-in my iFi micro iDSD...and wow. Can't imagine something better than this. That iFi house sound is just plain great. I'd say the GREATEST house sound I've heard. Makes very very good sense that iFi insisted on that 1794 DSD1793DAC chip. And there's no sacrifice in details doing that, unbelievable. Details on all frequency ranges are all there, no trade-offs---lower bass, upper bass, lower midrange, upper midrange, lower treble, upper treble...alto, tenor, soprano......they're there. Anybody into headphones SHOULD try this marvel.


 
  
 I don't want to retract any hype, as the micro iDSD is my favorite single DAC+Amp combo I've ever owned, but a couple clarifying questions:
  
 1.  haven't seen anyone summarize the "House Sound" of iFi.  my interpretation is:  musical, clear, detailed, in sync.
 but not overly warm or bass/treble/mid heavy.
 so what is the House Sound?
  
 2.  HE-560 and micro iDSD could benefit from some additional soundstage width/height IMHO.  otherwise yes, the amp section is pretty sweet and matches up perfectly with other IEMs and of course HP50.


----------



## BillsonChang007

I have not tried any other iFi toys so I cant comment on the "iFi house soun" part but I agree that the Micro iDSD is indeed very musical and detailed.


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> Stand corrected...I'm not good on numbers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nope. I wish to hear it. 


> Originally Posted by *jexby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 2.  HE-560 and micro iDSD could benefit from some additional soundstage width/height IMHO.  otherwise yes, the amp section is pretty sweet and matches up perfectly with other IEMs and of course HP50.


 

  
 I found width to be excellent but then again I'm coming from the Fidelio L2 (just good width with excellent depth). I found the pairing with the HE-560 to be lacking in soundstage depth and it still sounded a little hollow, a little too bright. Maybe a change of cable, Focus A pads, or a nice tube/hybrid tube amp would fix those.


----------



## diamondears

jexby said:


> I don't want to retract any hype, as the micro iDSD is my favorite single DAC+Amp combo I've ever owned, but a couple clarifying questions:
> 
> 1.  haven't seen anyone summarize the "House Sound" of iFi.  my interpretation is:  musical, clear, detailed, in sync.
> but not overly warm or bass/treble/mid heavy.
> ...


 

 Its hard to describe. Its the sort of sound that you gotta hear to know it for sure. As already said in here by iFi audio themselves, that house sound comes primarily from the chip used--the DSD1793 chip. Interestingly, the HRT iStreamer has the PCM1793 DAC chip, which I have and happen to really love the sound of.
  
 My best description would be just a little and right/perfect amount of "huskysilky-ness" (for lack of better word) thrown in without being sibilant nor grainy nor being too smooth...and also with the perfect amount of lower deep bass "mass" or "body" inserted. These are the sound characteristics that distinguishes its house sound. The things you mentioned--musical, clear, detailed, in sync---can be true to any other sound, but IMO it won't capture iFi's house sound properly. For me, "husky-ness" and "deep lower bass body mass" would. Its truly an amazing and likeable sound signature. I'm even hesitant to describe them because that might wrongfully capture that house sound as different persons have different interpretations and imaginations. You have to HEAR it. And you have to compare it with other sounds to distinguish it.
  
 All the details are there, so its very detailed...but the details were not brought out by cranking up certain frequencies. Its truly unexplainable. Maybe that's why even iFi themselves can't explain why they chose that DAC chip (despite other chips being technically having more) except to say that its because of its SOUND--that house sound.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> Nope. I wish to hear it.
> 
> I found width to be excellent but then again I'm coming from the Fidelio L2 (just good width with excellent depth). I found the pairing with the HE-560 to be lacking in soundstage depth and it still sounded a little hollow, a little too bright. Maybe a change of cable, Focus A pads, or a nice tube/hybrid tube amp would fix those.


 
 Oops, sorry, meant to ask the ChordQB you mentioned, not Hugo.
  
 Yes, agree width is excellent, moreso with the 3D (and XBass on to offset the extra treble from 3D). I've heard the HE-560 with the micro iDSD and I have the same impressions, though IMO its mainly due to the HP, not the micro iDSD. The HE-560 is quite detailed on the upper registers, so that made the vocals and high frequency instruments more forward than normal.
  
 But with the LCD-2, the micro iDSD is perfection. Now I'm really waiting for that mini iDSD with balanced HP out jacks!


----------



## ClieOS

jexby said:


> ... 1.  haven't seen anyone summarize the "House Sound" of iFi.  my interpretation is:  musical, clear, detailed, in sync.
> but not overly warm or bass/treble/mid heavy.
> so what is the House Sound?
> ...


 
  
 Having used most of iFi gears for awhile, my impression is that they are not looking for any particular strong flavor of house sound in their gears. If anything, I'll say it is mostly neutral with a very slight touch of warmth, retaining clearness and transparency without being bland or colored. All and all, not too far from your definition.
  
 p/s: A strong house sound can be both a good an bad thing, I was posting in a Chinese forum a few days ago, saying that I didn't find the richer / denser sounding Hugo to be that much of an upgrade over iDSD micro and I was instantly branded a shill because apparently they regard a denser / richer sound to be a "more correct" sound than something more neutral, so I must be either a disguised sale agent from iFi or just plain deaf. The attack on personal level is so horrendous that there is no way to talk any sense into them. Make me feel a lot of comfort in that we don't need to resolve to name calling to prove a point in HF.


----------



## diamondears

The right word, I think, is SILKY-SMOOTH, with that SILKY-SMOOTHNESS coming from the upper frequencies, passing into the midrange, and all the way into the deep lower bass...


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> Having used most of iFi gears for awhile, my impression is that they are not looking for any particular strong flavor of house sound in their gears. If anything, I'll say it is mostly neutral with a very slight touch of warmth, retaining clearness and transparency without being bland or colored. All and all, not too far from your definition.
> 
> p/s: A strong house sound can be both a good an bad thing, I was posting in a Chinese forum a few days ago, saying that I didn't find the richer / denser sounding Hugo to be that much of an upgrade over iDSD micro and I was instantly branded a shill because apparently they regard a denser / richer sound to be a "more correct" sound than something more neutral, so I must be either a disguised sale agent from iFi or just plain deaf. The attack on personal level is so horrendous that there is no way to talk any sense into them. Make me feel a lot of comfort in that we don't need to resolve to name calling to prove a point in HF.


 

 Hard to tell that to people who've spent 4 times as much...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They're actually reacting to someone telling them they just wasted US$2,000...


----------



## diamondears

diamondears said:


> Hard to tell that to people who've spent 4 times as much...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And yet, no DSD 512..


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> Oops, sorry, meant to ask the ChordQB you mentioned, not Hugo.
> 
> Yes, agree width is excellent, moreso with the 3D (and XBass on to offset the extra treble from 3D). I've heard the HE-560 with the micro iDSD and I have the same impressions, though IMO its mainly due to the HP, not the micro iDSD. The HE-560 is quite detailed on the upper registers, so that made the vocals and high frequency instruments more forward than normal.
> 
> But with the LCD-2, the micro iDSD is perfection. Now I'm really waiting for that mini iDSD with balanced HP out jacks!


 
  
 The LCD-2 with the iDSD had amazing bass and vocals. The depth was spectacular. I could actually imagine a band in front or say the vocalist with the band behind. If the LCD-2 was a little more airy, had more width, a smidgeon clearer, it would be perfect… Maybe that's why there are the LCD-3 and LCD-XC (which I wish to hear but are still sadly past my budget of how much I'd ever spend for a single item). Maybe there's an Alpha Prime in my future. With balanced being quite a popular choice, I was surprised it wasn't a feature on the iDSD… but in retrospect… there doesn't seem to be much space left. Ditto the Chord Hugo. 
  
 Regarding the ChordQB setup, the comparison was done with an HD800 on single ended with the Micro iDSD as standalone and balanced with the Chord QB feeding the HDVD800 amp section. Very unfair comparison but the iDSD doesn't embarrass itself. It's just that that set-up was meant for the HD800 (arranged by a local retailer for a big meet). 
  
  


clieos said:


> Having used most of iFi gears for awhile, my impression is that they are not looking for any particular strong flavor of house sound in their gears. If anything, I'll say it is mostly neutral with a very slight touch of warmth, retaining clearness and transparency without being bland or colored. All and all, not too far from your definition.
> 
> p/s: A strong house sound can be both a good an bad thing, I was posting in a Chinese forum a few days ago, saying that I didn't find the richer / denser sounding Hugo to be that much of an upgrade over iDSD micro and I was instantly branded a shill because apparently they regard a denser / richer sound to be a "more correct" sound than something more neutral, so I must be either a disguised sale agent from iFi or just plain deaf. The attack on personal level is so horrendous that there is no way to talk any sense into them. Make me feel a lot of comfort in that we don't need to resolve to name calling to prove a point in HF.


 

 I've seen something similar or possibly worse… it was like backstabbing and not minding the poster right in front of him. Anyways, comparisons with the Hugo have been… contradictory amongst people. Some say the Hugo is warmer, bassier, and more musical while being more resolute while some say the Hugo is slightly more resolute and with slightly greater technicalities at the expense of musicality and warmth relative to the iDSD. Which would you find to have more bass quantity and extension? The Hugo right or do you mean by richer/denser to be mostly in the midrange? Is the soundstage and imaging obviously better on the Hugo? Thanks in advance!! I'm trying to conclude what I'd be getting and losing in changing the iDSD into a Hugo and also if it would be the worth the additional costs.
  
  
  
 To anyone here, has anyone here been able to compare the micro iDSD with the AK240 either as DAC only or as a DAC/amp on something they can equally drive well?


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> The LCD-2 with the iDSD had amazing bass and vocals. The depth was spectacular. I could actually imagine a band in front or say the vocalist with the band behind. If the LCD-2 was a little more airy, had more width, a smidgeon clearer, it would be perfect… Maybe that's why there are the LCD-3 and LCD-XC (which I wish to hear but are still sadly past my budget of how much I'd ever spend for a single item). Maybe there's an Alpha Prime in my future. With balanced being quite a popular choice, I was surprised it wasn't a feature on the iDSD… but in retrospect… there doesn't seem to be much space left. Ditto the Chord Hugo.
> 
> Regarding the ChordQB setup, the comparison was done with an HD800 on single ended with the Micro iDSD as standalone and balanced with the Chord QB feeding the HDVD800 amp section. Very unfair comparison but the iDSD doesn't embarrass itself. It's just that that set-up was meant for the HD800 (arranged by a local retailer for a big meet).
> 
> ...


 

 Which LCD-2 you tried? Try the LCD-2 with Fazors. It solved the things you're longing for in the LCD-2. But the LCD-2 Rev. 2 has more in the lower registers, sort of a trade-off. The graphs are exactly correct on this as that's what I hear as well. The micro iDSD's XBass boost on deep bass not bleeding into the midrange really solves this. So with the micro iDSD, you can have the LCD-2 Rev. 2's bass and LCD-3's more airy treble/mids all at the same time. Ain't that great?


----------



## BillsonChang007

diamondears said:


> And yet, no DSD 512..


 
 You got the point sir!


----------



## h1f1add1cted

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Dont worry.
> 
> ...


 

 I want to give feedback about my issues.
  
 First it works now like charm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good support by iFi with helpful tips, the root problem caused of a hardware issue from the USB port from the android device itself! No cable, iDSD or software issue - only a really really random annoying hardware issue from the phone itself. With my replacment unit it works like charm!


----------



## If6was9

Maybe some setting wrong?

Using the Micro iDSD connected to my hi-fi home system (PC with Foobar to the integrated amplifier, using the analog outputs RCA)
I did all the possible tests, comparing the Micro iDSD with my old DVD player (a Sony DVP-S715 of the 2002), well the old Sony wins hands down, using the same tracks, the same connection, the same volume, with the Micro iDSD the scene draw backs, closes and loses in dynamic and three-dimensional to lack a sense of presence and air compared to Sony, with "The Four Seasons" by Vivaldi, played the violin through the Micro iDSD seems mono-chord, especially in the area of ​​the right stage, the arches are barely present, and a general sense of information is missing sound.

The Micro iDSD is set in Turbo mode, Biperfect, Direct

Something wrong?
I hope so

someone did similar tests?

P.S.
Sorry for my bad English


----------



## ALRAINBOW

THE micro dsd is a tad warm. too warm for me in some ways  . this may be the root cause of your findings . did you try the 3d settings. ??
  
 also it could be a miss match of imp or synergy. with headphones and my ciem,s its fine. but I did try it with an external amp and the result was not good. not sure why. I do have other amps and today will try them as well to hear any improvements.
 another point is a direct comparison with the hugo. I have play with direct comparison's for  hours.
 my findings as I wrote them drove me crazy. no direct observation that drew a conclusion seemed possible for me.
 only a few points stood out for sure.
 first off price point there is no way thew hugo is worth its price . the I dsd at 500 is a far better choice.
 options the I dsd wins here with a barrage of settings to play with.
 dsd is just real and actually very good with the ifi dsd and thehugo is just all wrong with dsd.
 now pcm is a confusing mirage of good and bad, various resolutions with same songs sound better on one and worse on others.
 over all the hugo wins but again at 5 times the price I could not say buy it over the ifi dsd micro.
 now thisis with headphones and c iems. over a period of time.  I have yet to try the two with speakers. the warmth of the ifidsd micro does seem to get less as we listen to it. I guess our brains adjust . so quick A/B is best to compare. 
 anyway hope this helps someone. 
 al


----------



## iFi audio

dhinchcliffe said:


> I am hearing the same thing on my iDSD Micro. I seems dependent on the source, but is disconcerting for sure. I hear a steady pair of light clicks or pops every 5-10 seconds when I use my iPhone 6, Tidal, and iDSD Micro. Not strong but consistently there. Changed all the cables, and it was still there. Switching to my MacBook Air and the Tidal native app and it only happened once in 2 hours.
> 
> So, it's unclear if the iPhone 6 DAC output is just super jittery compare to the MacBook but the problem has been consistent for several days now.
> 
> Any suggestions on what other cabling or settings changes I could use are welcome.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The clicks may be Tidal App itself.
  
 Please try listening directly with HP on the iPhone, also play music from internal player or Onkyo HF Player.
  
 If the internal player is fine then you can narrow the problem down to the Tidal app/service.
  
 This is because we encountered similar problems with Spotify when the net connections bandwidth get choked.
  
 If this does not work, you can also open a support ticket with more specific system details etc and we can look in more depth.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

if6was9 said:


> Maybe some setting wrong?
> 
> Using the Micro iDSD connected to my hi-fi home system (PC with Foobar to the integrated amplifier, using the analog outputs RCA)
> I did all the possible tests, comparing the Micro iDSD with my old DVD player (a Sony DVP-S715 of the 2002), well the old Sony wins hands down, using the same tracks, the same connection, the same volume, with the Micro iDSD the scene draw backs, closes and loses in dynamic and three-dimensional to lack a sense of presence and air compared to Sony, with "The Four Seasons" by Vivaldi, played the violin through the Micro iDSD seems mono-chord, especially in the area of ​​the right stage, the arches are barely present, and a general sense of information is missing sound.
> ...


 

 Hi,

  
 Please try "Turbo" off. And double-check the switch is engaged in Direct. It be over-driving your inputs.

  
 Use "Eco" mode which puts out the normal 2v. Turbo put puts 5v ball park.

  
 Turbo is primarily for hungry headphones via the 6.3mm, not the RCA for normal integrated amplfiiers.
  
 Also, level-match too.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## freedom01

I wonder if it is a norm for macbook or laptop users in such scenario which I am facing quite often.
  
 Setup :
  
 rMBP -> mercury cable -> iusbpower -> gemini cable -> iDSD micro -> headphone
  
 Whenever I am done with, I will switch off the iDSD before closing my rMBP lid (not shut down).
  
 The next day, I resumed my rMBP and then switched on the iDSD (in that sequence).
  
 Tried playing songs from iTunes or Audirvana Plus, no signal/sound.
  
 The workaround - I have to switch off the iDSD and unplug the iusbpower power cable. Connect it again and switch on the iDSD.
  
  
 Why is that so , may I ask ? Thanks.


----------



## BillsonChang007

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The clicks may be Tidal App itself.
> 
> ...




+1 to this! Actually, I have it sometimes even in offline mode for whatever reason it may be.


----------



## If6was9

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply,

I tried in Eco, but does not help much, is always that sense of compression, it is as if the sound played by each instrument, missing the beginning and end of each note, and therefore there is no air or breath to all the sound stage, musical instruments, instead of being present in a well-defined point, must be in a sense searched

Any other advice?

Thanks

Sorry for my bad English


----------



## diamondears

if6was9 said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> 
> I tried in Eco, but does not help much, is always that sense of compression, it is as if the sound played by each instrument, missing the beginning and end of each note, and therefore there is no air or breath to all the sound stage, musical instruments, instead of being present in a well-defined point, must be in a sense searched
> 
> ...


 What Digital Filter do you use? Try Minimum Phase Filter. And burn it in. When I first played my nano iDSD, I thought it's broken. After charging it in full overnight plus around 30 mins of use, it turned into a marvelous little wonder.


----------



## iFi audio

freedom01 said:


> I wonder if it is a norm for macbook or laptop users in such scenario which I am facing quite often.
> 
> 
> Setup :
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 We recommend to best to turn off the iUSB Power when not in use OR switch on after the Macbook.
  
 This should ensure the rMBP and micro iDSD should "see" one another as desired.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## If6was9

diamondears said:


> What Digital Filter do you use? Try Minimum Phase Filter. And burn it in. When I first played my nano iDSD, I thought it's broken. After charging it in full overnight plus around 30 mins of use, it turned into a marvelous little wonder.




I play PCM in Bitperfect, and DSD64 in Minimum Phase, and not use headphones


----------



## ClieOS

maricius said:


> .... I've seen something similar or possibly worse… it was like backstabbing and not minding the poster right in front of him. Anyways, comparisons with the Hugo have been… contradictory amongst people. Some say the Hugo is warmer, bassier, and more musical while being more resolute while some say the Hugo is slightly more resolute and with slightly greater technicalities at the expense of musicality and warmth relative to the iDSD. Which would you find to have more bass quantity and extension? The Hugo right or do you mean by richer/denser to be mostly in the midrange? Is the soundstage and imaging obviously better on the Hugo? Thanks in advance!! I'm trying to conclude what I'd be getting and losing in changing the iDSD into a Hugo and also if it would be the worth the additional costs.
> ...


 
  
 Extension is pretty similar between the two, but because of the denser / warmer nature of Hugo's sound, it tends to come out weightier where iDSD micro tends to be faster. I don't dislike the sound of Hugo in anyway though (my beef is mostly with its exterior design, but that's another story), but I do think the difference is more quantitative rather than qualitative. Soundstage wise, I think Hugo does do a better job if iDSD micro doesn't have its 3D Sound engaged. The background doesn't sound as dark as iDSD micro, but it is more 'surrounded' and gives a more defined image. With 3D enable however, I will say iDSD micro has the edge.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> Extension is pretty similar between the two, but because of the denser / warmer nature of Hugo's sound, it tends to come out weightier where iDSD micro tends to be faster. I don't dislike the sound of Hugo in anyway though (my beef is mostly with its exterior design, but that's another story), but I do think the difference is more quantitative rather than qualitative. Soundstage wise, I think Hugo does do a better job if iDSD micro doesn't have its 3D Sound engaged. The background doesn't sound as dark as iDSD micro, but it is more 'surrounded' and gives a more defined image. With 3D enable however, I will say iDSD micro has the edge.


 

 now such posts confuse the hell out of me, i thought the hugo had a thin sound and i owned and sold it because i found it lacking in bass and warmth, now from the quoted post above i see that the ifi is even less warm and with lower bass quantity why on earth can't people agree on things which should be easy to determine


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> now such posts confuse the hell out of me, i thought the hugo had a thin sound and i owned and sold it because i found it lacking in bass and warmth, now from the quoted post above i see that the ifi is even less warm and with lower bass quantity why on earth can't people agree on things which should be easy to determine


 
  
 Can't help you there, but I think most owner will agree that iDSD micro is not a particularly warm sounding DAC/amp. But there is bass boost and it does take care of the quantitative part of things.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> Can't help you there, but I think most owner will agree that iDSD micro is not a particularly warm sounding DAC/amp. But there is bass boost and it does take care of the quantitative part of things.


 

 i think now people who post comparative posts, should maybe follow a rule as i can not believe how come such things which are so easy to notice people come up with different opinions
  
 now let me set the record straight for comparative examples
  
 hugo vs denon da 10:
 1- hugo bigger wider soundstage
 2- da10 more bass but losse
 3- hugo better mids and more warm 
 4- denon da-10 mids in your face
 5- hugo not shouty
 6- denon can be shouty
  
 now simple question which has more bass idsd or hugo, can the idsd be shouty with in your face mids, and irritating highs
  
 please stop confusing us and i hope a moderator can establish a scale or something we can bass our evaluations on, like maybe test songs and we all write our impressions based on test songs, as this is so confusing and people are starting to lose confidence in some reviews


----------



## warrior1975

Take everything with a grain of salt and do your absolute best to hear things yourself. If not possible, find someone that has heard something you've heard and hears it the same you do, and listen more closely to their opinions


----------



## If6was9

but how is it possible that an old and simple DVD Player (2002), sounds better than the Micro iDSD ?


----------



## Sound Eq

that is not ideal, i think seriously the moderators of this forum should look at having reference songs for us to base our opinions on, and not this chaotic thing that is going on in this forum. 
  
 the moderators should establish a song selection of various qualities and genres and based on those songs we give our opinions
  
 because u simply u can't give your opinion on anything if the test is conducted on songs that have differing mattering and qualities and recordings.
  
 I for example have albums that were mattered differently of the same artist and each sounds so different, so we should seriously look into making our reviews more reference based
  
 this gives me the idea to open a whole new website where people can post their reviews on headphones based on reference songs from each genre and different qualities and I am sure no one would suffer from this huge confusion from reading such contradicting reviews


----------



## warrior1975

That would never work. We still hear things differently, it's all subjective... What I hear nobody else hears.


----------



## Sound Eq

warrior1975 said:


> That would never work. We still hear things differently, it's all subjective... What I hear nobody else hears.


 

 but if you hear the same song on different devices or headphones you can give a more reference base review


----------



## Sound Eq

sound eq said:


> but if you hear the same song on different devices or headphones you can give a more reference base review


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/743425/to-the-moderator-time-to-create-a-database-to-test-our-gadget-and-headphones-on-instead-of-this-confusion
  
 lets start getting serious in our reviews, above is a link that should kick start idea and project and a new way for us to reference our reviews on


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> now such posts confuse the hell out of me, i thought the hugo had a thin sound and i owned and sold it because i found it lacking in bass and warmth, now from the quoted post above i see that the ifi is even less warm and with lower bass quantity why on earth can't people agree on things which should be easy to determine


 

 Hi,
  
 We suggest to use the SPDIF out from the Sony DVD to iDSD micro and compare directly the same recording etc.
  
 This leaves out the Computer Audio Setup side of things - out of the listening equation. iTunes, JRMC, optimisation and other things all impact the sound on the PC side.

 The Hugo is a very nice DAC and should deliver - sonically speaking.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

warrior1975 said:


> That would never work. We still hear things differently, it's all subjective... What I hear nobody else hears.


 
  
 Agree, that will never work. There will require everyone has the same source and headphone to test an DAC / amp inbetween, or same source and amp/DAC to test a headphone, or the same DAC/amp and headphone to test the same source. Even with everything being the same, you still have to deal with people opinion, which can be influenced by their experience as well as emotion. That arguably is the biggest factor and you will need at least a blind test to take out some of the human factor. That's just too many variable to be fixed by just using the same songs.


----------



## If6was9

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We suggest to use the SPDIF out from the Sony DVD to iDSD micro and compare directly the same recording etc.
> 
> ...





Thanks,
I tried it this way, there is no comparison, the Micro iDSD comparison to Sony DVD, seems to play an mp3.
But at this point, really, I do not understand all the reviews and good things about this DAC / amp, even in specialized journals. 
I'm afraid I made a purchase wrong, probably this can be a DAC suitable for young people, who have always listened to music exclusively through ipod or mp3. 
or maybe it's simply a device intended only for use with headphones (and I, do not use headphones)
I would like to delude myself still something to be wrong, because having thrown € 500 is a very bad thought.

Someone could do this test, with any stand alone player, connected directly to the amp of your hi-fi home system, try playing a CD of "Four Seasons" by Vivaldi, and hear what they sound like strings, especially violin and cello?

I tried with these editions:

Chesky Records (CD)
Performer: Connecticut Early Music Festival Ensemble, Igor Kipnis
http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-The-Four-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B000003GDQ

Telarc (SACD, play CD layer)
Performer: Ozawa / Boston Symphony / Silverstein
http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-The-Four-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B00005Q46G

Fonè (SACD, play CD layer)
Performer: Marco Fornaciari, Giuseppe Volpato, Antonio De Lorenzi
http://www.fone.it/shop/shop.php?action=mostraScheda&cID=2&pID=25

Thanks


----------



## jhwalker

if6was9 said:


> Thanks,
> I tried it this way, there is no comparison, the Micro iDSD comparison to Sony DVD, seems to play an mp3.
> But at this point, really, I do not understand all the reviews and good things about this DAC / amp, even in specialized journals.
> I'm afraid I made a purchase wrong, probably this can be a DAC suitable for young people, who have always listened to music exclusively through ipod or mp3.
> ...


 

 My iDSD is head and shoulders above any standalone player I've heard, but I can say the same about just about any computer + DAC vs. any standalone player.
  
 If you're hearing a night and day *negative* difference between the iFi Micro iDSD and your Sony DVD player, you probably have some other problem in your system (i.e., there's an issue with your USB setup, you have a bad cable, etc.) - the iDSD is a quality DAC that is *not* aimed at "young people, who have always listened to music exclusively through ipod or mp3" (sic).


----------



## If6was9

>


 
  


jhwalker said:


> My iDSD is head and shoulders above any standalone player I've heard, but I can say the same about just about any computer + DAC vs. any standalone player.
> 
> If you're hearing a night and day *negative* difference between the iFi Micro iDSD and your Sony DVD player, you probably have some other problem in your system (i.e., there's an issue with your USB setup, you have a bad cable, etc.) - the iDSD is a quality DAC that is *not* aimed at "young people, who have always listened to music exclusively through ipod or mp3" (sic).


 
  
     


 In fact, just to rule out any signal interference,
 as a final test,I tried the Sony DVD connected directly  to the amplifier, with and without iDSD (SPDIF connected) with the same RCA cables, no USB or PC.
  
     Where can be the problem?
  
 there is no difference between day and night,
 but with the DVD, any musical instruments are well placed, and present,
 with iDSD remain with arrears or draw back,
 with iDSD disappears the air or the separation that there is between a string and the other of the violins, disappears the reverb or tail  produced by the arcs (violins, cellos, etc..), as if a veil lay over the instruments with the iDSD
          


 I do not know if I can make myself understood
  
 Sorry, You   what kind of music listen?

  













  
*Sorry for my bad English*


----------



## ImperialBlade

I have been following this thread as the iFi iDSD Micro DSD512 is exactley what I am looking for. Small form factor, able to play just about anything, able to drive anything from IEMs to full on Planars, and doesn't break the bank.
  
 What I don't know is the iFi Purifier or iFi Mercury Cable needed with the iFi iDSD Micro DSD512? If yes, what do they add and has anyone used this combo?


----------



## jhwalker

imperialblade said:


> I have been following this thread as the iFi iDSD Micro DSD512 is exactley what I am looking for. Small form factor, able to play just about anything, able to drive anything from IEMs to full on Planars, and doesn't break the bank.
> 
> What I don't know is the iFi Purifier or iFi Mercury Cable needed with the iFi iDSD Micro DSD512? If yes, what do they add and has anyone used this combo?


 
  
 iPurifier technology is built-in to the iFi Micro iDSD, so you will not need an external iPurifier.
  
 You could choose to try iUSBPower in conjunction with your cable.  I believe others in this thread have reported on this combo.


----------



## senorx12562

if6was9 said:


> In fact, just to rule out any signal interference,
> as a final test,I tried the Sony DVD connected directly  to the amplifier, with and without iDSD (SPDIF connected) with the same RCA cables, no USB or PC.
> 
> Where can be the problem?
> ...


 
 My iDSD sounds nothing like you describe.


----------



## tf1216

If6was9,

What is the amplifier in your setup? Are you certain the switches on the Micro are in the suggested positions?


----------



## If6was9

tf1216 said:


> If6was9,
> 
> What is the amplifier in your setup? Are you certain the switches on the Micro are in the suggested positions?




I tried on four amplifier, Denon, Graaf, AM Audio and Sony,
What is the correct position ?
I do not use headphones

Thanks


Sorry for my bad English


----------



## If6was9

senorx12562 said:


> My iDSD sounds nothing like you describe.




compared to what ?


----------



## tf1216

"Please try "Turbo" off. And double-check the switch is engaged in Direct."

It sounds like you've tried it all. I do believe it's not possible for the Sony CD player to be superior to the iDSD. If I had the same unit as you I would give it a try. 

One more question I have is have you got an audio buddy to confirm your impressions?


----------



## Poimandres

I guess I am lost, are you asking how he thinks the idsd sounds different than the way you described what you hear?


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> now such posts confuse the hell out of me, i thought the hugo had a thin sound and i owned and sold it because i found it lacking in bass and warmth, now from the quoted post above i see that the ifi is even less warm and with lower bass quantity why on earth can't people agree on things which should be easy to determine


 The differences in impressions are most likely due to difference in upstream gear and the recording being played. Plus there's the digital filter. One may be using the Standard/Bit-Perfect, the other Minimum Phase filter. I can tell/hear for certain that Standard and Bit-Perfect filters are on bright side, Minimum Phase definitely on warm side with more deep bass and lower frequency body/mass.


----------



## hifi25nl

Some interesting news. Now DSD native (non DoP) support up to DSD512 is possible in linux from next kernel 3.18.x and alsa 1.0.29.
 It is possible to try this compiling new kernel with the patches at the link below and alsa-git. To test it you must compile last version of mpd-dsd.
  
 I have tested the new driver and is working fine with iFi iDSD micro! Our DAC is one of the few supported!!!
  
 See
 https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd --> source and patches
 http://audio-linux.com/ --> beta version of Archlinux with DSD512 support
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hqplayer-kick-start-guide-and-feature-requests-20870/index13.html --> beta version of HQplayer with new format support


----------



## diamondears

How can I play DSD natively using Mac and iPhone? Onkyo HF Player outputs DoP--this is not native DSD?


----------



## hifi25nl

For linux
 DSD DoP: the DSD signal is encapsulated in a PCM container, but not converted to PCM. In this case iDSD can play only up to DSD256. 
 DSD native: the DSD signal is sent as it is to the DAC. iDSD can play up to DSD512
  
 For Mac, I think that playing up to DSD256 is possible. Enabling and possibly upsampling to DSD512 maybe will be possible with the next incoming version of HQplayer for Mac.
  
 Interesting measurements about upsampling in iDSD:
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/miska/ifi-idsd-micro-measurements-632/


----------



## jexby

wow, interesting graphs.
 am I wrong in interpreting these graphs that
  
 a) BitPerfect filter is the noisiest
 and
 b) upsample to 768/24 or DSD512 if possible?


----------



## BillsonChang007

jexby said:


> wow, interesting graphs.
> am I wrong in interpreting these graphs that
> 
> a) BitPerfect filter is the noisiest
> ...




I thought the noises in bit perfevt is being discussed long ago? And yes, I do norice some noise but only when silent, with music playing, it can't be heard.


----------



## hifi25nl

Yest BitPerfect is the noisiest but probably is the best for impulse response (and this is very important for audio quality).
  
 Personally in this case I think the best is upsampling to the highest possible value (possibly with a polynomial function, that will preserve impulse response)


----------



## john57

The measurements show that 768/24 or DSD512 playback *is* possible with the iDSD micro.


----------



## hifi25nl

Yes I know that it is possible. Only on linux DSD512 was not possible until now.


----------



## diamondears

hifi25nl said:


> For linux
> DSD DoP: the DSD signal is encapsulated in a PCM container, but not converted to PCM. In this case iDSD can play only up to DSD256.
> DSD native: the DSD signal is sent as it is to the DAC. iDSD can play up to DSD512
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply. 

How about Audirvana and Pure Music? Can they play native DSD? And up to DSD512? Checked their website and I can't see anything that says DSD512.


----------



## iFi audio

jexby said:


> wow, interesting graphs.
> am I wrong in interpreting these graphs that
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,

  
 From our Thorsten on his tea break:

  
 Interesting yes, but in more ways. If you do not mind our commenting (and this is just our comments nothing more nothing less):

  
1st set of graphs
 The first set of graphs show the output from iDSD with the actual audio range compressed into the very first fraction of a millimetre and shows RF signals up to a frequency of 5MHz. So the graph shows the output at high and very high supersonic frequencies. These graphs do not reveal anything whatsoever about what happens in the audible range.


  
 At the latest count not even the most golden ear’d of audiophiles have claimed to hear noise at several MHz directly. The extant literature fails to support such a feat of hearing for even Dracula himself in bat form and while one may conceive that the Almighty One or the Archangel Emanuel may be capable of such a feat we'd probably ask them to pass an ABX test on that first.


  
 It is debatable to what degree the high and super high frequencies influence other replay equipment, but no matter what, the frequencies themselves are entirely inaudible, they can cause audible problems only by interaction with other gear and if the rest of the system relies on well-designed equipment, there should be no issue. And if there is, with Bitperfect or Minimum-Phase filters, simply use the standard filter instead.

  
2nd set of graphs

  
 The second set of graphs is a bit more telling of in and near audio band noise. It is worth noting the different frequency scales for the bitperfect filter and the other filters and it would probably be better to see all graphs on the same scale to be able to draw fair conclusions. Mmm.


  
 Looking only at the graphs that are directly comparable we find that any changes caused by up-sampling to 768kHz externally compared to the iDSD micro's build in filters are below -110dB and/or supersonic. Noisefloor is basically the same. If converting PCM to DSD we see a rising in-audio band noisefloor, though the different amplitude scales between DSD256 and DSD512 make it hard to see just how much is going on.


  
 How much of the above happens to be artifact of the actual test gear is also open to question. All test gear has limits. Wisely the gentleman who posted these measurements has generally refrained from making any comments that attempt to relate the measured results to anything meaningfully audible, as such a thing would not be an easy thing, if defensible at all.


  
 Yet any owner of the iDSD micro can make an experiment in this line.


  
 To obtain 352.8kHz/384kHz upsampling simply engage the digital filter. As the graphs show, the differences between this and external 768kHz upsampling are quite small. If you prefer using the standard digital filter then you may prefer the external upsampler too. If you prefer minimum phase filtering (which allows more ultrasonic noise than standard) or G*d forbid the horribly noisy (above the audio range anyway - a consequence of not applying any digital filtering) Bitperfect filter, then any other upsampler will likely not work for you either.


  
 In the same line, as long as the OS is windows and the playback software supports ASIO, it is easy to try out DSD256 or DSD512 conversion of PCM using ASIO-Proxy. Again, if you like the result better than straight PCM with any of the available filters, maybe you will like other conversion software even better. Then again maybe Bitperfect is preferred.


  
 The nice thing with the iDSD micro is that you can try it all out with the iDSD micro for yourself: PCM up/oversampling, DSD conversion, you name it.


  
 Take a listen for yourself and draw the conclusions for yourself, rather than listen to what anyone suggests you should hear.


  
 Somewhat of a long way round but in the end, graphs don’t mean they are more authoritative just because they have lots of squiggles.

  
 We just wanted to offer a more rounded perspective.


----------



## jexby

wow how I love the Engineers at iFi Audio!


----------



## WNBC

The posts on these past 2 pages have been useful.  I had trouble playing DSD256 and I didn't mind that much because all of my DSD files are from free demos.  I didn't know Mac and Amarra player were the bottleneck rather than the Micro iDSD.  I just looked up the Amarra player and it only supports DSD64 and DSD128.


----------



## senorx12562

if6was9 said:


> compared to what ?


 
 The sound of my unit is nothing like the description of how yours sounds that you posted and I quoted. I don't understand the confusion.


----------



## Sound Eq

ok can i at least get a consensus does the ifi idsd sound warm, rich with good bass extension, and is not shouty
  
 please whoever finds it that way please confirm, as i am not wanting to get a unit that is thin and shouty and not good bass extension


----------



## WNBC

I haven't used an external amp with the iDSD but the on-board amp has good bass extension with the TH-600, PS-500, and HE-500.  I don't feel that I am missing any detail, extension, and texture that these headphones can deliver.  This is hard to quantify but in the past I've owned some really good standalone amps from Decware, Violectric, Schiit, etc.  Not to say that the integrated amp on the iFi trounces those other amps but just to say that I was not disappointed in what I was hearing from the iDSD's amp section.  
  
 I have owned "full-sounding" DACs like the Anedio D2, W4S DAC-2, and one of my favorites the J.Kenny Ciunas.  The iDSD is not-thin sounding in comparison.  Something like the Oppo BDP-105 was more thin-sounding, not in a bad way, but just had a different presentation.  
  
 I'm no expert, but after having owned some really nice gear, I find the iDSD at $499 a no-brainer and I don't have a problem using something that costs 2-3X less than my past DACs alone.  On top of the the DAC section we get a pretty good amp section.  I wasn't expecting the HE-500 to sound as good coming from this little unit, but I was pleasantly surprised.
  
 I'm not sure what shouty is but I do hear that term a lot.  Couldn't find it in the glossary http://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary-r-s or http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary .  I can say that the experience is not fatiguing nor is the unit introducing grain into the sound.  Slightly warm.  Another subjective term but I mean it with good weight to the bottom end, but not excessive.  For the most part, you will hear what your headphone can do and the iDSD is not overly affecting the sound which is clean, transparent, and sufficiently detailed.  By no means boring.  
  
 Quote:


sound eq said:


> ok can i at least get a consensus does the ifi idsd sound warm, rich with good bass extension, and is not shouty
> 
> please whoever finds it that way please confirm, as i am not wanting to get a unit that is thin and shouty and not good bass extension


----------



## tf1216

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 That's how you describe the sound of a device.  Well done WNBC


----------



## diamondears

No way micro iDSD is shouty (upper mids boosted), nor thin (lacks bass). Use Minimum Phase. This is the best digital filter to hear their house sound IMHO.


----------



## If6was9

if6was9 said:


> Maybe some setting wrong?
> 
> Using the Micro iDSD connected to my hi-fi home system (PC with Foobar to the integrated amplifier, using the analog outputs RCA)
> I did all the possible tests, comparing the Micro iDSD with my old DVD player (a Sony DVP-S715 of the 2002), well the old Sony wins hands down, using the same tracks, the same connection, the same volume, with the Micro iDSD the scene draw backs, closes and loses in dynamic and three-dimensional to lack a sense of presence and air compared to Sony, with "The Four Seasons" by Vivaldi, played the violin through the Micro iDSD seems mono-chord, especially in the area of ​​the right stage, the arches are barely present, and a general sense of information is missing sound.
> ...






ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We suggest to use the SPDIF out from the Sony DVD to iDSD micro and compare directly the same recording etc.
> 
> ...




I think I found the problem, listening with the speakers lacked something to the whole scene, especially on the right channel, today I tried to connect headphones, and with surprise I noticed that with the volume up to nine hours, works only the left channel . 
What to do? 
someone else has the same problem with channel inbalanced? I have to send him to RMA?


----------



## tf1216

What headphones are you using?  What position is the IEMatch switch at?


----------



## diamondears

if6was9 said:


> I think I found the problem, listening with the speakers lacked something to the whole scene, especially on the right channel, today I tried to connect headphones, and with surprise I noticed that with the volume up to nine hours, works only the left channel .
> What to do?
> someone else has the same problem? I have to send him to RMA?



What type of recording you playing on PC? What file type/format?

I play WAV file format on my Mac and comparing it with my CD player the sound is even bit better with my Mac. Can you show us a pic of your setup?


----------



## If6was9

tf1216 said:


> What headphones are you using?  What position is the IEMatch switch at?




do not use headphones, but I tried it with two models and with all IEM position, and even under 9:00, you hear only the left channel, and this problem also affects the listen with speakers


----------



## If6was9

diamondears said:


> What type of recording you playing on PC? What file type/format?
> 
> I play WAV file format on my Mac and comparing it with my CD player the sound is even bit better with my Mac. Can you show us a pic of your setup?


 
  
 I plays wav files,
 these are the albums that I always use as a test,and know every nuance:
  
 Chesky Records (CD)
 Performer: Connecticut Early Music Festival Ensemble, Igor Kipnis
 http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-The-Four-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B000003GDQ
  
 Telarc (SACD, play CD layer)
 Performer: Ozawa / Boston Symphony / Silverstein
 http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-The-Four-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B00005Q46G
  
 Fonè (SACD, play CD layer)
 Performer: Marco Fornaciari, Giuseppe Volpato, Antonio De Lorenzi
 http://www.fone.it/shop/shop.php?action=mostraScheda&cID=2&pID=25
  
 my setup is connected directly to the amp means RCA:
  
 1) PC (Windows 7)-->Foobar-->USB-->iDSD-->RCA to the amp
 2) DVD Player-->Spdif-->iDsD--RCA to the amp
 3) DVD Player-->RCA to the amp
  
 And in all three cases, the old DVD Player sounds better

 the Micro iDSD has a problem of unbalance of the channels,
 compared to dvd, lack of information to the sound message on the right side, noticeable also with the speakers,

 I do not use headphones
  
  
 Sorry for my bad English


----------



## tf1216

Another question, which mode did you have the Micro at when playing through your speakers? What did you use for volume control? What was the computer's volume set at?


----------



## BillsonChang007

IMO, if it is conncted to an amp via RCA, then the iDSD's amp is bypassed, thus, the problem shouldn't be iDSD's. Have you checked your external amp volume is beyond 9 o'clock? Or 12 o'clock for some amp I tried long ago. Not sure the brand thought.


----------



## If6was9

tf1216 said:


> Another question, which mode did you have the Micro at when playing through your speakers? What did you use for volume control? What was the computer's volume set at?




Set in Direct mode, bitperfect or minimum phase, volume control set on ampli-integrated (zero on iDSD), volume on the pc is set to 100% in Foobar


----------



## If6was9

billsonchang007 said:


> IMO, if it is conncted to an amp via RCA, then the iDSD's amp is bypassed, thus, the problem shouldn't be iDSD's. Have you checked your external amp volume is beyond 9 o'clock? Or 12 o'clock for some amp I tried long ago. Not sure the brand thought.




I set the volume via the amplifier, exactly the same level, the iDSD has the right channel unbalanced compared to the Sony DVD.
On the iDSD volume is set to zero, why is bypassed


----------



## tf1216

Did you try both modes on your iDSD? To me, it sounds like your "Output" was not on Direct Mode.


----------



## If6was9

tf1216 said:


> Did you try both modes on your iDSD? To me, it sounds like you were not on Direct Mode.




Certainly is set on Direct mode


----------



## diamondears

if6was9 said:


> I plays wav files,
> these are the albums that I always use as a test,and know every nuance:
> 
> Chesky Records (CD)
> ...


Yeah, what mode, output Vrms and digital filter?

Also, are you using the same RCA input jacks of the amp? Use the same as that may be the issue. 

And what amp do you use? Do you connect the iDSD to your amp's line-in/pre-amp or main-in/power amp section?

There are amps (integrated/with preamps) that treats or process the analogue signal from the source in such a way that introduces huge/substantial/unique tweaks (boosts/reduces certain frequencies, mode crossfeeds, etc.) since they're designed and customized for certain sources and/or speakers most likely you'll pair them with (e.g., same price range, same customer type, certain market, etc). 

I think this is why iFi recommends the micro iDSD as a PREAMP, not a DAC/source to be connected to another pre-amp. 

So connect your micro iDSD to the power amp section of your amp.


----------



## tf1216

Send some pics too, please


----------



## TheNoose

billsonchang007 said:


> If you do not wish to use your Micro iDSD's built in battery, you can switch on the power AFTER you have connected to the running computer. That way, you can keep the Micro iDSD running after listening, just let it go into standby mode.
> 
> As for 2.3 driver, I have tested it on my Window 7, 32-bit it doesn't work either but it appear to work on my Window 8.1, 64-bit. For now, it is best to stick with 2.0.
> 
> ...


 

 This answers my rather dumb question...does the iFi Micro have a battery...and is thus portable. I know it is meant for desktop use, but I can't help but want to try this:
  


 Source: Siggy1 here: http://forums.vr-zone.com/audiophiles-htpc-corner/3030876-geekout-se-w-crystek-femto-micro-idsd-chord-hugo-ha22tubex-11.html
 Post #158
 Siggy1 has made mods to the iFi that you can view at the post ref above. He is a wizard of such doings.
  
 Oh...I never found any reference to the battery anywhere else including iFi's site...must have overlooked it?


----------



## BillsonChang007

if6was9 said:


> I set the volume via the amplifier, exactly the same level, the iDSD has the right channel unbalanced compared to the Sony DVD.
> On the iDSD volume is set to zero, why is bypassed


 
 Try this:
  
 Switch the volume setting on your PC down low and use the amplifier to boost back the volume. Let me know if it solve the channel unbalance  
  

 The iFi micro iDSD features a 4800 mAH 
  
 Quoted from iFi-Audio Site:
SmartPower® is the micro iDSD’s onboard recharging feature for Smartdevices. Its 4800mAH battery is able to fully recharge an iPhone two-times. Compatible with Apple and Android, phones and tablets, it is another example of iFi’s commitment to customer needs – enjoy high-end audio on the go without worrying about the phone going flat.


----------



## TheNoose

Thank you! Another solid reason to buy...waiting for my budget to grow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really should give up popcorn...


----------



## If6was9

billsonchang007 said:


> Try this:
> 
> Switch the volume setting on your PC down low and use the amplifier to boost back the volume. Let me know if it solve the channel unbalance


 
 I read old posts (from page 62 onwards), and the problem of unbalanced channels is a known history,
 many users here, complained the same problem,
 or the problem is solved or ask a refund


----------



## maricius

if6was9 said:


> I read old posts (from page 62 onwards), and the problem of unbalanced channels is a known history,
> many users here, complained the same problem,
> or the problem is solved or ask a refund


 

 I don't recollect any complaints on channel imbalances with regards to the RCA output once past say 10 or 20 degrees past opening when using the micro iDSD on preamp mode and I've been with this thread since its inception. There is evident channel imbalance on the headphone out before on and before 9 o'clock but that is normal for most analog potentiometers. For headphone use, the recommended is from 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock and that is why we have the three power modes and the three attenuator settings. 
  
 On direct mode, there should be no hints of channel imbalance. At all. If there are and you are sure it is the iDSD, I am sure iFi will be more than willing to replace yours.


----------



## If6was9

diamondears said:


> I think this is why iFi recommends the micro iDSD as a PREAMP, not a DAC/source to be connected to another pre-amp.
> 
> So connect your micro iDSD to the power amp section of your amp.




How? I did try to switch in preamp mode? I connect the RCA in line-in CD on the integrated-amp, Direct mode on iDSD


----------



## diamondears

if6was9 said:


> How? I did try to switch in preamp mode? I connect the RCA in line-in CD on the integrated-amp, Direct mode on iDSD


 I suggest connect it to your integrated amp's POWER section instead of PRE-AMP section. What you're doing is like double pre-amping. 

What's your integrated amp?


----------



## iFi audio

if6was9 said:


> How? I did try to switch in preamp mode? I connect the RCA in line-in CD on the integrated-amp, Direct mode on iDSD


 

 Hi,
  
 As you are a new customer, please open a support ticket with details of your system and your serial number and retailer from whom you purchased your unit.
  
 We will try our best to work through your system.
  
 But if you are truly not getting the sonics you wish, then return the unit to your retailer for a refund.
  
 If you have any questions, just PM us or email: tech@ifi-audio.com
  
 Thanks.


----------



## technobear

if6was9 said:


> diamondears said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is why iFi recommends the micro iDSD as a PREAMP, not a DAC/source to be connected to another pre-amp.
> ...




The DIRECT/PRE_AMP switch is on the underside of the iDSD. Make sure it is on the DIRECT setting.

However, if you plug in headphones and there is no sound on one channel then it sounds like your unit is faulty. You should send it back to your dealer for a replacement.


----------



## diamondears

technobear said:


> The DIRECT/PRE_AMP switch is on the underside of the iDSD. Make sure it is on the DIRECT setting.
> 
> However, if you plug in headphones and there is no sound on one channel then it sounds like your unit is faulty. You should send it back to your dealer for a replacement.


 Is that better than micro iDSD pre-amp mode>>integrated amp power/mains section?


----------



## diamondears

IMO, to hear the sound quality iFi intended or designed it to be, you have to use pre-amp mode on the micro iDSD and plug it into the Mains or power-amp section of the integrated amp. This is exactly like when you're using the HP out or power-amp section of the micro iDSD itself, but this time you're using speakers instead of HP. 

Otherwise, i.e., you use direct mode on iDSD and plug it into the line-in/pre-amp section, the integrated amp will introduce substantial tweaks into the sound because that's what the pre-amp section of an integrated amp does. So, in here, you're double pre-amping. I don't think iFi put the pre-amp section in the micro iDSD so we can connect it to another pre-amp. I think it was intended to be connected to headphone amps, which are essentially power amps for headphones.


----------



## If6was9

diamondears said:


> I suggest connect it to your integrated amp's POWER section instead of PRE-AMP section. What you're doing is like double pre-amping.
> 
> What's your integrated amp?




My integrated is a Sony STR DA50ES where is power section? The DVD player, sound fine without problem, on same line-in CD same cable RCA


----------



## diamondears

Imagine, you got a really bad CD player (which is a DAC by the way), you use a good integrated amp that "rectifies" the bad sound coming from the CD player/DAC, you'll hear good sound from the speakers. In another situation, you got a really good DAC, you use the same good integrated amp that "rectifies" the already good sound coming from the good DAC, and the result COULD be really bad. This is because most integrated amps introduce tweaks on just parts of the sound, not the whole. This is the exact reason why not all amps always turn out good on each, all, and every upstream gear. That's why you have to match the gears.

In the case of micro iDSD, the DAC and power amp section (i.e., HP out jack section) are designed to match each other. That's why it sounds good when you use them as such, and the results are different when you don't. 

Sorry to press on this, but I sincerely believe this is important to realize. 

Cheers.


----------



## diamondears

if6was9 said:


> My integrated is a Sony STR DA50ES where is power section? The DVD player, sound fine without problem, on same line-in CD same cable RCA


 

That's an AV Receiver? Usually they have no Mains/Power amp section like an integrated amp since AV Receivers are designed mainly for movies, with audio as an afterthought. Makes sense your Sony CD player sounds good because they're MATCHED being from same manufacturer. 

At the back of the unit beside the Pre-Out section (pre-amp section), there are inputs under the label 5.1 Input. Just guessing, but that may be the Power-Amp section. Check the manual. If not, do as usual (connect to CD in), then choose Direct Mode on the Receiver as this will bypass the digital signal processing in the Receiver.

Hope this helps.


----------



## rickyleelee

if6was9 said:


> How? I did try to switch in preamp mode? I connect the RCA in line-in CD on the integrated-amp, Direct mode on iDSD


 
Hello Massimo

There is something wrong or not right. From your description, you do not seem to have an actual iDSD in your system. It really does not operate (never mind sound) like what you suggests report if everything is on the level.

You are a new member and started with posts virtually all to do how sucky the iDSD is - fair enough but have you asked iFi or spoke to the shop from where you purchased? iFi's customer service is easily above average so you shouldn't have to wait long for a reply. And if the shop is not assisting you, then you should name them. All the posts from the others here to assist you are also met with little/no change or can't try this and can't try that and constantly repeating how much the iDSD sucks next to a cheap Sony. 

No matter if you don't care to get the iDSD micro working properly or for whatever reason you cannot, you are best returning your iDSD micro for a refund given your obvious and constant problems to get it to work properly.


----------



## If6was9

rickyleelee said:


> Hello Massimo
> 
> There is something wrong or not right. From your description, you do not seem to have an actual iDSD in your system. It really does not operate (never mind sound) like what you suggests report if everything is on the level.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks to all for the help and advice,
    however, I never questioned support and professionalism of iFi,
     and how their practices, I have readily assisted,
     indeed tomorrow I send the Micro iDSD for replacement
  
 A special thanks to my dealer *ProAudio Italia* (official distributor's iFi in Italy),
  
 Thanks to IFI, for support through customer service and also for the support directly here on these pages of the forum.
  
 Thanks to all users of these thread, that with their answers, they have tried to help me in all modes
  
      


 So now I look forward that the new  iDSD arrivals,
 why always convinced of the quality of iFi products, and especially   a device such as the Micro iDSD




  
 I hope to return here as soon as possible,
 to comment with you,   the goodness of the sound, reproduced by this DAC

      
 Thanks to All 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Sorry for my bad English


----------



## diamondears

rickyleelee said:


> [COLOR=3E454C]Hello Massimo[/COLOR][COLOR=3E454C]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=3E454C]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=3E454C]There is something wrong or not right. From your description, you do not seem to have an actual iDSD in your system. It really does not operate (never mind sound) like what you suggests report if everything is on the level.[/COLOR][COLOR=3E454C]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=3E454C]
> ...


 He's using an AV Receiver--Digital Signal Processing (DSP), the exact process iFi avoids.


----------



## If6was9

diamondears said:


> He's using an AV Receiver--Digital Signal Processing (DSP), the exact process iFi avoids.



As I wrote previously,
I did the tests on four different amplifiers:
AM Audio (with Pre Lector ZOE), Graaf (with Pre Lector ZOE), Onkyo (integrated) and the my Sony,
and in all tests the sound came from iDSD, compared to that of my poor and old DVD player,
was that of a "good mp3 files", compared to the "excellent LPCM 44.100khz" reproduced from the DVD player,
in a nutshell
a digital sound flat and backlog vs a deep sound, round and present
 
unfortunately my language is not English,
and to me remains difficult use the correct terms, to explain what I heard
 
 



all tests, always carried out with this CD of Chesky Records, I use for over twenty years, 
http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-The-Four-Seasons-Antonio/dp/B000003GDQ
tried in time, on any type of audio equipment,from millionaires (with EMMLabs, Audio Research, Conrad Jhonson, AM Audio, ecc..) to economic, 



and so I know to perfection every little nuance of this CD, 
every detail of each instrument, and the location of each instrument
 
Definitely with the replacement of the new iDSD things will change















 
Sorry for my bad English


----------



## YtseJamer

What's the best store in Canada to buy the iDSD Micro ?


----------



## diamondears

Deleted


----------



## FLguy

Apologies if this has been covered, but I have searched and haven't been able to find it yet...
  
 Can anyone tell me whether the battery in the iDSD would be damaged if the iDSD is left plugged in most of the time?  Or does a smart charge control circuit prevent fatigue or damage of the battery, and enable long term use while plugged in without fatiguing the battery?  Thanks.


----------



## diamondears

flguy said:


> Apologies if this has been covered, but I have searched and haven't been able to find it yet...
> 
> Can anyone tell me whether the battery in the iDSD would be damaged if the iDSD is left plugged in most of the time?  Or does a smart charge control circuit prevent fatigue or damage of the battery, and enable long term use while plugged in without fatiguing the battery?  Thanks.


 Automatically shuts down. The blue light shuts off. Same with the nano iDSD.


----------



## FLguy

diamondears said:


> Automatically shuts down. The blue light shuts off. Same with the nano iDSD.




Awesome, thanks!


----------



## guyuemuziye

I have a Sony ZX1, and am looking for something to juicy it up (basically, for my TG334, HD600 and HE400i). I was interested in Pha2/3. But after reading some reviews and comparisons, iDSD micro seems to be a much better choice, especially considering the cans I have and the potential it can be used as a desktop rig. The compatibility then becomes my major concern. 
  
  
 As my current understanding, we have two potential ways to connect zx1 to iDSD Micro (*please correct me if I am wrong*):
 1, using a cable like Fiio L5 (wm port to 3.5mm) to connect two devices, in such case, we shall expect the iDSD only works as an amp. Considering that ZX1 do has a decent dac, and the amp part of iDSD is also wonderful, we shall expect something good out it.
  
 2, using a WMC-NWH10 cable and a USB 2.0 cable to connect two devices, then the ZX1 shall only work as a storage device and the iDSD takes the whole floor here. 
  
However, all of the above are just my speculations based on what I have read so far. It would be greatly appreciated  if anyone can share some the real experiences with these two devices (I did search for zx1 on this thread, no luck).


----------



## maricius

guyuemuziye said:


> I have a Sony ZX1, and am looking for something to juicy it up (basically, for my TG334, HD600 and HE400i). I was interested in Pha2/3. But after reading some reviews and comparisons, iDSD micro seems to be a much better choice, especially considering the cans I have and the potential it can be used as a desktop rig. The compatibility then becomes my major concern.
> 
> 
> As my current understanding, we have two potential ways to connect zx1 to iDSD Micro (*please correct me if I am wrong*):
> ...


 
  
 Yes for 1 but I've read the ZX1 to be lean and slightly bright sounding. The iDSD's amp section alone is on the leaner side so synergy may not be ideal. Yes also for 2 but the WMC-NWH10 alone is enough. You won't need an extra USB 2.0 cable to connect them to each other as the WMC-NWH10's end is a USB A female and the micro iDSD is a USB A male similar to how a lightning CCK and apple device would work with the iDSD. I've yet to read it to work with the ZX1 but ClieOS has been able to use a Sony A15 as transport for the iDSD.
  
post #1402


----------



## Sound Eq

maricius said:


> Yes for 1 but I've read the ZX1 to be lean and slightly bright sounding. The iDSD's amp section alone is on the leaner side so synergy may not be ideal. Yes also for 2 but the WMC-NWH10 alone is enough. You won't need an extra USB 2.0 cable to connect them to each other as the WMC-NWH10's end is a USB A female and the micro iDSD is a USB A male similar to how a lightning CCK and apple device would work with the iDSD. I've yet to read it to work with the ZX1 but ClieOS has been able to use a Sony A15 as transport for the iDSD.
> 
> post #1402


 

 is this another opinion that the idsd is on thin side of sound signature, as the confusion is getting more and more in this thread to the sound signature


----------



## osiris1

sound eq said:


> is this another opinion that the idsd is on thin side of sound signature, as the confusion is getting more and more in this thread to the sound signature




The 3D option does appear to add some brightness that can be interpreted that way to me.


----------



## Sound Eq

osiris1 said:


> The 3D option does appear to add some brightness that can be interpreted that way to me.


 

 i think more people opinions is appreciated as i am trying to avoid getting an amp/dac that is thin in its sound signature  as that was the main problem i had with chord hugo, so i hope i will not make the same mistake again, my goal is to find a warm, rich , layered portable dac/amp for my audeze lcd2 rev2
  
 plz guys i need your input before i do a purchase. should look for something different like a centrance m8 for the sound signature i am looking for, i don't care about dsd as most my files are not dsd anyway i care more about sound signature with my lcd2rev2


----------



## BillsonChang007

The Micro iDSD is warm, musical and very well textured as an amp/DAC all in one. As a standalone amp is the part where things sound a little thin.


----------



## Sound Eq

billsonchang007 said:


> The Micro iDSD is warm, musical and very well textured as an amp/DAC all in one. As a standalone amp is the part where things sound a little thin.


 

 i always thought its the opposite that if the amp is thin sounding then using it as amp/dac will be thin sounding too


----------



## diamondears

osiris1 said:


> The 3D option does appear to add some brightness that can be interpreted that way to me.







sound eq said:


> is this another opinion that the idsd is on thin side of sound signature, as the confusion is getting more and more in this thread to the sound signature



No way iDSD is thin, nano nor micro. Use the iFi recommended Minimum Phase filter.


----------



## Turrican2

Don't know about the iphone 6plus, but the OnePlus One is a perfect size match to the Micro iDSD,


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> i always thought its the opposite that if the amp is thin sounding then using it as amp/dac will be thin sounding too



Its all about the synergy  

Math is the best example when it comes to this IMO. 
Say "-3". If you need neutral [0], you "+3"  so if the amp is -3 the dac is +3, you get 0  



turrican2 said:


> Don't know about the iphone 6plus, but the OnePlus One is a perfect size match to the Micro iDSD,




Wow! That is a really nice combo!


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> i always thought its the opposite that if the amp is thin sounding then using it as amp/dac will be thin sounding too


 The iDSD's amp is not thin, it's perfectly neutral (without 3D and XBass engaged). I think the different impressions (thin vs warm) is due to the digital filter engaged. Standard filter to me is bit thin/bright, Bit-perfect neutral-thin, and Minimum Phase is neutral-warm with bit thicker deep bass.

I think in gauging each DAC's sound quality, the digital filter used should always be accounted for.


----------



## BillsonChang007

diamondears said:


> The iDSD's amp is not thin, it's perfectly neutral (without 3D and XBass engaged). I think the different impressions (thin vs warm) is due to the digital filter engaged. Standard filter to me is bit thin/bright, Bit-perfect neutral-thin, and Minimum Phase is neutral-warm with bit thicker deep bass.
> 
> I think in gauging each DAC's sound quality, the digital filter used should always be accounted for.




Personal opinion, I have my 3D on all the time and I don't find them anyway thin at all. Maybe brighter by a small ted bit but definitely not thinner.


----------



## fzman

billsonchang007 said:


> The Micro iDSD is warm, musical and very well textured as an amp/DAC all in one. As a standalone amp is the part where things sound a little thin.


 
  
 I like the wy you worded this ...   If the amp section itself was thin sounding, it would make the 'whole thing' thin sounding......   Seems more like the truth is that the amps shows you that other dacs (i.e., when you connect analog to the micro,) are thin, and it is just showing that (Sabre dac, perhaps)  - or the mini cables are thin - probably silver or spc????


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> is this another opinion that the idsd is on thin side of sound signature, as the confusion is getting more and more in this thread to the sound signature


 

 Only the amp section. As a whole, it's surely warmer than neutral but not overtly so. It is closer to neutral than very warm. 
  


sound eq said:


> i always thought its the opposite that if the amp is thin sounding then using it as amp/dac will be thin sounding too


 
  
 Nope. A system's synergy is dependent on the sound of every piece of equipment. IMO, an amp reflects what the DAC provides either plainly amplifying it or adding its own coloration. 
  
  


billsonchang007 said:


> The Micro iDSD is warm, musical and very well textured as an amp/DAC all in one. As a standalone amp is the part where things sound a little thin.


 

 Exactly.


----------



## hifi25nl

I have made some tests driving micro in BitPerfect mode and polynomial upsampling to 768K (polynomial really is not a filter, I would call it "higher frequency digital reconstruction of digital signal").
 I have tested also with HQplayer DSD to DSD256 or PCM to DSD256 options. With this configuration the distortion (particularly of 44.1 files) is very low and mirror images are dislocated to very high frequencies.
 In my system there is also a transformer preamplifier (SAC thailand) that will cut drastically out of audio band images.
 This premise is important because a bright sound could be the result, with BitPerfect, of high distorsion and near audio band digital images.
 The iDSD micro was used in Direct mode to preamplifier input in all tests.
  
 Compared to Metrum Octave with polynomial upsampling to 192 kHz (connected to s-pdif out of micro) the sound of Micro is only a little brighter and a little less "fat".  The subjective perception is of a lower bass level, but not too much.  Female voices are more present (in front of the scene) with Metrum.
  
 Since my micro is below 100 hours I think that the sound could change in the future. The differences are not too big. I consider the results very good. The iDSD micro is neutral.


----------



## guyuemuziye

maricius said:


> Yes for 1 but I've read the ZX1 to be lean and slightly bright sounding. The iDSD's amp section alone is on the leaner side so synergy may not be ideal. Yes also for 2 but the [COLOR=333333]WMC-NWH10 alone is enough. You won't need an extra USB 2.0 cable to connect them to each other as the WMC-NWH10's end is a USB A female and the micro iDSD is a USB A male similar to how a lightning CCK and apple device would work with the iDSD. I've yet to read it to work with the ZX1 but ClieOS has been able to use a Sony A15 as transport for the iDSD.[/COLOR]
> 
> post #1402



Thank you ！It answers most of my questions. ：). I will do more research on the thin signature though. I lived in a small city in Canada. I will never get a chance to audition these gears before I pull the trigger. Sigh......


----------



## maricius

guyuemuziye said:


> Thank you ！It answers most of my questions. ：). I will do more research on the thin signature though. I lived in a small city in Canada. I will never get a chance to audition these gears before I pull the trigger. Sigh......


 

 Do remember it's warmish neutral if used as a DAC/amp!!


----------



## Sound Eq

alright i ordered one and i hope it meets my needs and expectations
  
 so to use it with audeze lcd2 and iPod whats the preferred settings
  
 and to use it with the Shure 846 iem whats the best settings


----------



## WNBC

This is also very subjective.  One man's thin sound can be another man's just right sound.  Then there are the far extremes of thin/thick sound we can mostly agree upon but the middle ground is more nuanced.  
  
 The iDSD amp is very good.  Is it the best one can do?  Naturally no, but I have been happy enough with it that after owning the iDSD micro for 3 months I still have not rushed out to buy a standalone amp.  Before now I've always used a standalone amp.  With that said, I will eventually get one because there are times I might even want a more full sound.  With the PS-500 and TH-600, I'm already getting a nice full sound from these headphones and the pairing with the iDSD is fantastic.  If I were to get a less meaty headphone like the HD800 or even with my Rockets, I'd be interested in very fun amps like my favorites the 2Stepdance and Portaphile 627 which I would say give a more full presentation than the iDSD's amp.  I've been thinking Lyr2, Asgard 2, Sunrise Project Polaris, Little Dot, SR-71A/B, Woo, etc.  Just haven't made up my mind and I'm in no rush.
  
 I would just try out the iDSD micro and worry about a standalone amp later.  I think you will come across times you will want to use the onboard amp and times you will want to use a standalone amp.  This could be dependent on the IEMs and headphones for which you might want to complement's each's strength and not overpower the sound by say thick headphone sound + thick standalone amp sound.  Very simplistic but I think you get the idea here.  I will also be interested in hearing the DAC separated from the amp section.  Then I will get a true sense of how good the DAC section is.  I think I will find that the DAC section is going to be stronger than the amp section.  The amp section is still nothing to sneeze at and I'll be curious to when iFi releases their desktop DAC/amp unit.   
  
  
 Quote:


sound eq said:


> is this another opinion that the idsd is on thin side of sound signature, as the confusion is getting more and more in this thread to the sound signature


----------



## Sound Eq

i also ordered alo rx mk3 to connect it to idsd just in case as i know i that i like things to reach full potential with my audeze


----------



## guyuemuziye

clieos said:


> Here to report that this combo works like a charm:
> 
> Sony NWZ-A15 (or A16 / A17) + WMC-NWH10 (OTG cable) + iDSD micro.
> 
> iDSD nano will work as well.


 
 Hi,
 I am just curious that with such a combo, the stock player on A15 can do its job or we need to use something else? I am asking because I want hook it up with my ZX1 , and I hear that the usb audio player pro is not compatible with zx1, that leaves us the stock player as the only option here.


----------



## guyuemuziye

maricius said:


> Do remember it's warmish neutral if used as a DAC/amp!!


 
 Thanks for the input. 
 I do have a buying question now: did anyone buy this in Canada. I just couldn't find an "official" price tag for this in Canada. One Canadian dealer actually told me that they can offer me an open box demo version for CDN 550 (incl tax and shipping). I have no idea if this is a good price or not. Any comment is largely appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

guyuemuziye said:


> Hi,
> I am just curious that with such a combo, the stock player on A15 can do its job or we need to use something else? I am asking because I want hook it up with my ZX1 , and I hear that the usb audio player pro is not compatible with zx1, that leaves us the stock player as the only option here.


 
 Well, A15 runs on prepriatory firmware, so there is no such a thing as 'stock' vs. non-stock, as you can not install anything on it.


----------



## guyuemuziye

clieos said:


> Well, A15 runs on prepriatory firmware, so there is no such a thing as 'stock' vs. non-stock, as you can not install anything on it.



Oops... I thought it is another Android -Walkman. Anyway, I have seen someone connected zx1 to a hugo portable dac/amp and he just uses the stock player. Problom solved.


----------



## diamondears

wnbc said:


>


 

 What digital filter is being used? Minimum Phase filter, the only recommended filter for listening is no way thin.
  
 I think people should realize that, when you're using a DAC, the chosen digital filter to be used is very important because this affects the sound substantially.
  
 This is why the iFi iDSDs are truly great, yeah including the nano version. I don't know any portable amp that has user-interchangeable digital filters. The Minimum Phase filter is the filter closest to analogue that you can get.


----------



## WNBC

I always thought I had mine in minimum phase but turns out it's been in bit-perfect mode. I'm gonna have a listen tomorrow with the Rockets to determine which filter I like the most. I can say bit-perfect complemented the TH600 and PS500 really well. Let's see what I've been missing by not using minimum phase.






diamondears said:


> What digital filter is being used? Minimum Phase filter, the only recommended filter for listening is no way thin.
> 
> I think people should realize that, when you're using a DAC, the chosen digital filter to be used is very important because this affects the sound substantially.
> 
> This is why the iFi iDSDs are truly great, yeah including the nano version. I don't know any portable amp that has user-interchangeable digital filters. The Minimum Phase filter is the filter closest to analogue that you can get.


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> i also ordered alo rx mk3 to connect it to idsd just in case as i know i that i like things to reach full potential with my audeze


 

 Why would you need the Alo Rx Mk3? By iDSD you mean the nano or micro? You may need it with the nano, if your Audeze is the LCD-3, but if its the iFi micro iDSD for LCD-2, its much more than enough for the Audeze. Couldn't even get it past 2 o'clock at Eco mode (lowest gain/power; there's the Normal, then Turbo modes).


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> Why would you need the Alo Rx Mk3? By iDSD you mean the nano or micro? You may need it with the nano, if your Audeze is the LCD-3, but if its the iFi micro iDSD for LCD-2, its much more than enough for the Audeze. Couldn't even get it past 2 o'clock at Eco mode (lowest gain/power; there's the Normal, then Turbo modes).




He means micro iDSD. He' s getting the RX in case the iDSD is not warm enough for his tastes as the RX would be warmer than the iDSD's amp section.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> He means micro iDSD. He' s getting the RX in case the iDSD is not warm enough for his tastes as the RX would be warmer than the iDSD's amp section.


 IMHO, there's no need. All you have to do is use the Minimum Phase digital filter, and it'll be warm already. XBass turned on for extra warmth/bit darker. Remember he's using LCD-2, which is already in the warmish side.


----------



## Sound Eq

diamondears said:


> IMHO, there's no need. All you have to do is use the Minimum Phase digital filter, and it'll be warm already. XBass turned on for extra warmth/bit darker. Remember he's using LCD-2, which is already in the warmish side.


 

 thanks guys, i like to experiment with gear, and i am not using my rig as being portable, but mainly for transportable use, moving my rig around the house, and i go the alo rx m3 for a good price, so i have it just in case if i need it and experiment once my 2 gears arrive i will report back about my findings.


----------



## UprightMan

A couple questions -
  
 1) I know this works with Android via UAPP - but _does it work natively (Ie for Spotify)?  _My phone is HTC One M8 if that matters...
 2) any thoughts on if this is better than CEntrance HiFi-m8?  I plan to be powering Alpha Dogs


----------



## Turrican2

uprightman said:


> A couple questions -
> 
> 1) I know this works with Android via UAPP - but _does it work natively (Ie for Spotify)?  _My phone is HTC One M8 if that matters...
> 2) any thoughts on if this is better than CEntrance HiFi-m8?  I plan to be powering Alpha Dogs


 
  
 with regards to item (1), you would probably need to be on Lollipop (Android 5.0) as this brings native USB compatibility to Android devices (although not hi-res I believe).
  
 Head-fi user Danba maintains a list of such things. the one you might find useful is here
  
 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XYy1FuzDUeRkdUdlhMRnQzaUk/edit
  
 According to this the idsd  Nano does NOT work on Lollipop, at least on the Nexus 6 (I assume that means the Micro as well).  So in summary, you'd need to try before you buy...or get confirmation from someone you trust either way.
  
 Android Thread is here, might be worth asking the question.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5760#post_11076260


----------



## hifi25nl

With my Sony Z Ultra with Android 4.4.4 only USB Player Pro is working (both PCM and DSD). Spotify and Neutron are not working.
  
 However, for what I know, this is NOT a limitation of this Android version or this smartphone, since USB output is working fine with all applications using Audiophonics U-SABRE (with ESS 9023, * *hifimedy equivalent).


----------



## h1f1add1cted

hifi25nl said:


> However, for what I know, this is NOT a limitation of this Android version or this smartphone, since USB output is working fine with all applications using Audiophonics U-SABRE (with ESS 9023, * *hifimedy equivalent).


 
 This is an limitation of Android. No drivers for the micro iDSD. I can use e.g. my X-Fi USB Go! sound card native on all apps, because its an legacy driver for this audio device in Android built-in.
  
 The mirco iDSD uses XMOS and needs a proper driver, the same with Windows, without driver installation = not possible to use the micro iDSD, but this Plug&Play legacy X-Fi USB sound card can use Windows drivers which built-in.
  
 And finally with Android 5, you get better driver support, but still no solution to play more than 16bit/44kHz, this limitation still exists, still need UAPP to play 24bit or DSD native.
  
 Some e.g. Sony devices got modded drivers like the Sony Z3, with is now able to play trough Android 24bit/192kHz but only on rarely supported DACs like from Sony.


----------



## guyuemuziye

I just ordered my iDSD Micro. This is my first external dac/amp, so exciting. I am a huge music lover but most of my collection are high-res mp3 and some ape and flac, DSD and DXD are something totally new to me. It would be greatly appreated if anyone can share where to buy or find these resources. Forgive me if this has been discussed before. Thanks!


----------



## maricius

If anyone is interested, there seems to be a new review of the iDSD at headphone.guru and Jude finally gave his review/impressions of it at the latest Winter Gift Guide!!
  
 http://headphone.guru/ifi-idsd-micro/
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-portable-amps-dacs-daps


----------



## If6was9

Yes, but I'd like some more comparison in configuration home hi-fi with speakers, compared to DAC desktop, or even in comparison to the internal DAC of the standard CD Player
Ever with classical music

Sorry for my bad English


----------



## maricius

if6was9 said:


> Yes, but I'd like some more comparison in configuration home hi-fi with speakers, compared to DAC desktop, or even in comparison to the internal DAC of the standard CD Player
> Ever with classical music
> 
> Sorry for my bad English


 

 There is one on audiostream.com
  
 It was considered a good product but the review wasn't as ecstatic or favourable towards the iDSD as I expected it to be.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> If anyone is interested, there seems to be a new review of the iDSD at headphone.guru and Jude finally gave his review/impressions of it at the latest Winter Gift Guide!!
> 
> http://headphone.guru/ifi-idsd-micro/
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-portable-amps-dacs-daps



Well deserved praise. Keep it up iFi.


----------



## RadioWonder737

*Quiles & Cloud*
Acoustic Music Performed Live in a Demonstration for Blue Coast Music from RMA 2014...
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/blue-coast-music-announces-free-dsd-downloads-featuring-quiles-cloud-from-rocky-mountain-audiofest-registration-14388561575
  
Sign Up For Five Free DSD Music Files for your iFi Micro iDSD... 
​I prefer the Five Remix Versions at DSD128...


----------



## tf1216

The Micro iDSD received the Greatest Bits" award from Audio Stream. That's a pretty big deal.


----------



## senorx12562

I still can't get over the fact that for less than $1k, (iDSD,X3, 128gb microSD card, pick your 'phones) I can have better quality sound (semi)-portably than I've ever had at home. These are the good old days as Carly Simon once sang.


----------



## mogulmaster

This thing really gets me into albums. Just can't turn it off, such an inviting sound.


----------



## diamondears

senorx12562 said:


> I still can't get over the fact that for less than $1k, (iDSD,X3, 128gb microSD card, pick your 'phones) I can have better quality sound (semi)-portably than I've ever had at home. These are the good old days as Carly Simon once sang.


 Why do you mean less than US$1k?? It's half of it!...


----------



## diamondears

diamondears said:


> Why do you mean less than US$1k?? It's half of it!...


 Oh yeah..."less than $1k" sounds better, but still correct...


----------



## maricius

tf1216 said:


> The Micro iDSD received the Greatest Bits" award from Audio Stream. That's a pretty big deal.


 

 Tbh I was expecting Class B "Favourite Bits" as the Nano iDSD was part of the Class C "Favourite Bits." The Nano iDSD was also said to be very very close to the Halide DAC HD which is a Class B "Favourite Bit" and the Micro is supposedly a huge step up… From his review and comments, he seemed off-put by the large array of features and believed it could have been sold at a cheaper price or say a lot of that space in the headphone amp and costs could have gone to an even better DAC section. This is speculation on my part though.


----------



## Poimandres

Yeah I would agree with it being speculation on your part. I didnt get that from the review at all.....


----------



## senorx12562

I just don't think this thing can be beat for the $. Best $500 I've spent. And I'm really cheap.


----------



## maricius

poimandres said:


> Yeah I would agree with it being speculation on your part. I didnt get that from the review at all.....


 

 I don't know man
  
  
 "I don't like paying for features I will not use so if I was looking for a DAC for CD-quality playback only, and not higher res or a headphone amp for use with multiple 'phones, I'd go with the Halide."
  
 "Of course a lot of what you're paying for with the Micro is additional functionality and drive for headphone users which is not our focus here so many of the Micro's features are off our beaten path."
  
I'm just overthinking. Don't mind me.
  


senorx12562 said:


> I just don't think this thing can be beat for the $. Best $500 I've spent. And I'm really cheap.


 
  
 Indeed. As a DAC/amp, the flexibility and feature-set is stellar.


----------



## tf1216

I have a few of my own thoughts about the review. 

If a reviewer was to say one device was better than all the others in a given price bracket than what's the point of the other devices existing? There always has to be some cons to keep other products viable. Also, I'm not sure if iFi or AMR is a sponsor of the website. I have never compared the positiveness of reviews for products by companies that sponsor the website versus ones that don't but Audio Stream owes iFi nothing. That's why I felt the review was as good as it could get for the Micro.


----------



## If6was9

maricius said:


> I don't know man
> 
> 
> "[COLOR=333333]I don't like paying for features I will not use so if I was looking for a DAC for CD-quality playback only, and not higher res or a headphone amp for use with multiple 'phones, I'd go with the Halide."[/COLOR]
> ...




I instead will agree, goes first sought the best possible quality as DAC (especially in CD quality, PCM 16bit 44.1 khz), then you can add all the features you want, but a DAC first of all has to be a DAC, at least more than one CD Player midrange

if an external DAC to $ 500 playing CDs worse than a CD player midrange, which is buying? what can I do?

Sorry for my bad English


----------



## Amlalsulami

Now i reseved my Micro iDSD but how can i charge the iDSD? I see SmartPower but how to connect the SmartPower with the Blue Cable


----------



## BillsonChang007

amlalsulami said:


> Now i reseved my Micro iDSD but how can i charge the iDSD? I see SmartPower but how to connect the SmartPower with the Blue Cable




At the back of the housing, next to the line out RCA, there is a male 3.0 USB plug. Insert the blue cable into it. Connect it to the charging port  

Billson


----------



## Amlalsulami

billsonchang007 said:


> At the back of the housing, next to the line out RCA, there is a male 3.0 USB plug. Insert the blue cable into it. Connect it to the charging port
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much, But i have 1 qut
  
 Can i charge my iDSD with electricity socket? Or just with PC,laptop


----------



## maricius

amlalsulami said:


> Thank you very much, But i have 2 qut
> 
> 1- What is SmartPowr port doing?
> 2- Can i charge my iDSD with electricity socket? Or just with PC,laptop




The port on the side is meant to charge other devices while the iDSD is turned off such as a smartphone, tablet, DAP, etc. The iDSD can be charged with a typical usb port of 500mA current but i think it can accept up to 2.1A for faster charging time. For the first charge, charge until the blue light goes off without using. Congratulations on your new iDSD.


----------



## Amlalsulami

maricius said:


> The port on the side is meant to charge other devices while the iDSD is turned off such as a smartphone, tablet, DAP, etc. The iDSD can be charged with a typical usb port of 500mA current but i think it can accept up to 2.1A for faster charging time. For the first charge, charge until the blue light goes off without using. Congratulations on your new iDSD.


 
 Thank you, But can i charge the iDSD like this (Electricity socket )


----------



## maricius

amlalsulami said:


> Thank you, But can i charge the iDSD like this (Electricity socket )


 
  
 Of course


----------



## Amlalsulami

maricius said:


> Of course


 
 Sound's good!!
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## BillsonChang007

amlalsulami said:


> Thank you, But can i charge the iDSD like this (Electricity socket )


 
 Yes, you definitely can! In fact, charging with PC's USB might take you forever to fully charge it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When blue light is off, means the unit is fully charged btw.


----------



## Amlalsulami

billsonchang007 said:


> Yes, you definitely can! In fact, charging with PC's USB might take you forever to fully charge it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you, I'm now charging with a socket


----------



## mikemercer

WOW!
  
 I've been a fan of iFi products goin' back to my iCAN, iPhono, and my trusted iUSB PowerPlant - but when I got to hear the Micro iDSD at Canjam w/ my buddy Alex (Rosson - from Audeze) w/ my LCD-XCs I was simply blown-away!!
  
 So, because its become so popular, it took a bit to get a unit for review (which I'm definitely keeping) - but, the wait was WORTH IT!!
  
 This was the PERFECT couch system for drowning out all the political arguing goin' on during our Thanksgiving w/ my in-laws!!

  
 AND - since I was initially blown-away using my LCD-XCs w/ the Micro - I HAD TO DO IT:

  
 This was really somethin' special!! 
 Especially w/ my new Double Helix Cables Comp4 SE for my Audezes
 and also using the DHC USB cable..
 This system led me into an all-night listening sesh!!!!
  
 BRAVO iFi!!
 BRAVO!!!!


----------



## aCuria

I was using this with a windows PC, cant figure out how to turn off the preamp section when I want to use the headphone section and vice versa
  
 Any ideas?
  
 I want to keep my speakers permanently connected


----------



## rickyleelee

billsonchang007 said:


> Its all about the synergy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


billsonchang007 said:


> Its all about the synergy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think the iPhone 6+ is a perfect size match to the Micro iDSD. I saw this at iFi counter at AV Fair in Guangzhou, China. Its beautiful and the most important thing is that the weight is acceptable.


----------



## john57

acuria said:


> I was using this with a windows PC, cant figure out how to turn off the preamp section when I want to use the headphone section and vice versa
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> I want to keep my speakers permanently connected


 
 The way I have done it in the past and now with active monitors  is to use a power strip with individual switches on the power strip or a power command monitor stand that I am using. I combined the power on both monitors with a adapter so that one switch can control the power to the monitors.


----------



## ClieOS

john57 said:


> The way I have done it in the past and now with active monitors  is to use a power strip with individual switches on the power strip or a power command monitor stand that I am using. I combined the power on both monitors with a adapter so that one switch can control the power to the monitors.


 
  
 ...or use a RCA switch / AV selector between the iDSD micro and your speaker. Select a blank output when you only want headphone-out.


----------



## TheNoose

Is the iFi Micro iDSD the poor man's Chord Hugo?


----------



## john57

thenoose said:


> Is the iFi Micro iDSD the poor man's Chord Hugo?


 
 From a features standpoint they are very different.


----------



## diamondears

thenoose said:


> Is the iFi Micro iDSD the poor man's Chord Hugo?


 Is the Chord Hugo the rich man's money bin?...


----------



## jexby

thenoose said:


> Is the iFi Micro iDSD the poor man's Chord Hugo?




IFi micro iDSD is the wise man's choice.


----------



## ClieOS

john57 said:


> From a features standpoint they are very different.


 
  
 They are also quite different in sound signature. I like Hugo's sound, but won't use it from reference purpose.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> They are also quite different in sound signature. I like Hugo's sound, but won't use it from reference purpose.


 What's it's sound sig?


----------



## TheNoose

Yes, so I have tried to create a comparison chart.
 Quite challenging to do as a new member here...
 I'm unsure how this will appear or if you can open and refer to it...
 Anyway let me post this table and see.
  




  
 did this says nothing about SQ Sig...they have some similarities and differences from my most recent experiences...fyi. I don't own either of these. But have listened to them over the past two weeks at shops and hi fi show here in S'pore.
  
 A/B comparisons would be great to hear about as well as everyone's views too.


----------



## TheNoose

thenoose said:


> Yes, so I have tried to create a comparison chart.
> Quite challenging to do as a new member here...
> I'm unsure how this will appear or if you can open and refer to it...
> Anyway let me post this table and see.
> ...


 

 Huh? Can someone help please, I can see the chart above in preview but not when I submit it? Its in Excel...please advise, thanks.


----------



## maricius

thenoose said:


> Huh? Can someone help please, I can see the chart above in preview but not when I submit it? Its in Excel...please advise, thanks.


 
  
 Is this a chart with your impressions or are you asking for impressions? If the former, just post it as a picture (screenshot). If it's the latter, post it as a link to a Google Drive spreadsheet.


----------



## diamondears

Seems like the US$2,500 Hugo is being bothered by the US$500 iFi micro iDSD...lots of unsolicited Hugo comparators coming in this iFi micro iDSD thread lately...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

diamondears said:


> Seems like the US$2,500 Hugo is being bothered by the US$500 iFi micro iDSD...lots of unsolicited Hugo comparators coming in this iFi micro iDSD thread lately...


 
  
 I don't own the Hugo, but have heard it in a private setting. iFi Micro iDSD does give it a run for the money especially if you use headphones that likes POWER.


----------



## TheNoose

maricius said:


> Is this a chart with your impressions or are you asking for impressions? If the former, just post it as a picture (screenshot). If it's the latter, post it as a link to a Google Drive spreadsheet.


 

 Thanks Maricius.


----------



## TheNoose

Chart of Overview and Specs (direct copy from sites)  for IFI Micro, Nano and Chord Hugo is available here:
  
 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzPpUxz35yIeS01TYy1XVDBiRFE/view?usp=sharing


----------



## semeniub

diamondears said:


> Seems like the US$2,500 Hugo is being bothered by the US$500 iFi micro iDSD...lots of unsolicited Hugo comparators coming in this iFi micro iDSD thread lately...


 

 Plenty of additional nice audio things can be bought with that $2000 difference to use with your micro iDSD!


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> What's it's sound sig?


 
  


clieos said:


> ...both are excellent DAC/amp but Hugo has a very obvious warmish / richer tone....


----------



## maricius

semeniub said:


> Plenty of additional nice audio things can be bought with that $2000 difference to use with your micro iDSD!


 

 For some stupid reason, I've never thought of it that way… like I'm looking at all these desktop amps and to use instead of the iDSD's headphone amp but for some reason I never related it to how it could possibly be used to make the iDSD way better than the Hugo. It seems unfair but cost wise in a home setup, it's a Hugo killer.


----------



## diamondears

Ain't the iFi micro iDSD warm and rich too with the digital filter pointed to Minimum Phase filter?


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> For some stupid reason, I've never thought of it that way… like I'm looking at all these desktop amps and to use instead of the iDSD's headphone amp but for some reason I never related it to how it could possibly be used to make the iDSD way better than the Hugo. It seems unfair but cost wise in a home setup, it's a Hugo killer.


 I don't think there's even a desktop amp, let alone a portable one, who can belt out 10V and 4,000mW @16 ohms. And switchable to a lower 5.5V. And to even lower 2V. And still can be adjusted more for lower sensitive IEMs. And there's a bass boost. And there's a 3D holographic for better imaging. 

So why still on the lookout for a desktop dedicated HP amp? The 2k could be spent on two Audeze LCD-2s, one fazor and the other pre-fazor...


----------



## semeniub

maricius said:


> For some stupid reason, I've never thought of it that way… like I'm looking at all these desktop amps and to use instead of the iDSD's headphone amp but for some reason I never related it to how it could possibly be used to make the iDSD way better than the Hugo. It seems unfair but cost wise in a home setup, it's a Hugo killer.


 

 Very true - plenty of other gear to match together with the micro when portability isn't as much a concern. At home you can fully use the powers of a computer source to upsample and take advantage of all the capabilities of the micro's DAC too. Then there's advanced equalization, etc etc...


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Ain't the iFi micro iDSD warm and rich too with the digital filter pointed to Minimum Phase filter?


 
  
 Regardless of what filter used, iDSD micro is not going to be nearly as warm / rich / smooth as Hugo.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> Regardless of what filter used, iDSD micro is not going to be nearly as warm / rich / smooth as Hugo.


 Really? Can you listen to it again side by side now using Minimum Phase filter? That would be interesting as this 2 products seems to be in head on collision if price is non-issue. 

Does the Hugo have interchangeable filters equivalent to the Minimum Phase filter (slowly rolled off treble with post-ringing, and with bit time domain/phase delta for warmer/deeper/fuller bass)?


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Really? Can you listen to it again side by side now using Minimum Phase filter? That would be interesting as this 2 products seems to be in head on collision if price is non-issue.
> 
> Does the Hugo have interchangeable filters equivalent to the Minimum Phase filter (slowly rolled off treble with post-ringing, and with bit time domain/phase delta for warmer/deeper/fuller bass)?


 

 Nope, I don't own the Hugo, but I did switch between the filter on the auditioning. The difference in sound signature is so obvious that you don't need a second listen to notice. Plus I recently asked someone who had also listened to both as well and he has the same opinion as mine.
  
 Hugo doesn't have any interchangeable filter. One of Hugo sale point is the special digital filter they designed, so no point in letting user switch to something they don't believe is better. Don't ask me the detail though, as I have yet to come across any tech paper that explain the difference.


----------



## Incognito73

Forgot to mention another pretty much useful, just discovered, feature. If you use direct mode surely enough analogue outputs will be fixed and it's desirable mode when external pre-amps are in place, so that Micro pre-amp is bypassed (and volume buffer in general). However, headphone pre-amp section is still active and reactive to volume control, filters and effects and analogue outputs are not muted when the actual headphone is connected.  So, in essence, one can use in parallel external amps and excellent Micro headphone amp with independent volume control. Very useful indeed!


----------



## diamondears

incognito73 said:


> Forgot to mention another pretty much useful, just discovered, feature. If you use direct mode surely enough analogue outputs will be fixed and it's desirable mode when external pre-amps are in place, so that Micro pre-amp is bypassed (and volume buffer in general). However, headphone pre-amp section is still active and reactive to volume control, filters and effects and analogue outputs are not muted when the actual headphone is connected.  So, in essence, one can use in parallel external amps and excellent Micro headphone amp with independent volume control. Very useful indeed!


 In what situation is that useful? I mean, when do you use both an external pre-amp and the HO pre-amp+power amp out/jack at same time? DJ-ing?


----------



## Incognito73

Ah ... didn't put that right. In parallel, but not at the same time (although that's an option too). Many DACs I've tried either mute analog outs when headphone is just connected or enforcing variable output.


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> In what situation is that useful? I mean, when do you use both an external pre-amp and the HO pre-amp+power amp out/jack at same time? DJ-ing?


 

 ABing internal headphone amp vs external? I guess


----------



## Incognito73

In my case it's usefull for my integrated amp (and passive speakers). I'm keeping Micro volume on minimum (and headphones are always plugged in) when I'm using Micro in direct mode with my main speakers ... and I just mute my speakers when I want to switch to and use Micro headphone amp.

HRT Microstreamer can operate in same fashion because of the dual outputs.


----------



## knorris908

thenoose said:


> Chart of Overview and Specs (direct copy from sites)  for IFI Micro, Nano and Chord Hugo is available here:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzPpUxz35yIeS01TYy1XVDBiRFE/view?usp=sharing


 

 This is great, and a really nice idea, but maybe the cut-n-paste got a little ahead of itself?  (For instance: The weight of the Nano shouldn't be the same as the Micro, and I am positive that the physical dimensions are not the same....)


----------



## TheNoose

knorris908 said:


> This is great, and a really nice idea, but maybe the cut-n-paste got a little ahead of itself?  (For instance: The weight of the Nano shouldn't be the same as the Micro, and I am positive that the physical dimensions are not the same....)




Ha ha...nope the weight boo boo is on the site itself not mine. Thanks for spotting it though.
My real question is which sounds the best.
Last time I looked, the result was 1 to the Hugo and .99999998 to the IFI, and save $2K!


----------



## knorris908

thenoose said:


> Ha ha...nope the weight boo boo is on the site itself not mine. Thanks for spotting it though.
> My real question is which sounds the best.
> Last time I looked, the result was 1 to the Hugo and .99999998 to the IFI, and save $2K!


 

 LOL I wasn't looking to imply that you were at fault.  I just wanted to point out the inaccuracy for any prospective buyers out there that might base their decision on one of those factors.  I LOVE my iDSD Micro, but it certainly isn't what I would call a "pocketable" mobile device.  It fits nicely into the big pockets of my winter coats, but no way I'm getting it into a pants pocket short of BAGGY cargo pants/shorts.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've been on the lookout for a Chord Hugo in the NJ area so that I can nab a quick A/B session between the HUGO and my iDSD Micro.  I'm completely NOT biased for or against either.  If the HUGO sounds better, awesome!  I'll have something to look forward too after paying-off the Christmas deficit.  If not, then no hard feelings.  If they sound relatively "on-par" with only one's inclination towards one method of presentation, or the other, then I'll be satisfied that I got/got near the performance of a ~$2500 USD piece of equipment for only ~$500 USD.


----------



## JuleZ3C

incognito73 said:


> In my case it's usefull for my integrated amp (and passive speakers). I'm keeping Micro volume on minimum (and headphones are always plugged in) when I'm using Micro in direct mode with my main speakers ... and I just mute my speakers when I want to switch to and use Micro headphone amp.
> 
> HRT Microstreamer can operate in same fashion because of the dual outputs.


 
  
 Be aware that if you're using the 3D effect, you'll send the HP version to your amp and speakers... (and that it is so not cool ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (both versions of 3D are great when applied to the correct piece of equipment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ))


----------



## Incognito73

julez3c said:


> Be aware that if you're using the 3D effect, you'll send the HP version to your amp and speakers... (and that it is so not cool !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Absolutely correct! BUT there is another Micro valuable feature. Xbass and 3D enhancements, as part of the design, are implemented in pre-amp section ... so effectively in direct mode signal is passing unmolested to analogue outputs and from there to my integrated amp input. 
  
 So, in other words, Xbass and 3D are not effective in direct mode.


----------



## maricius

The one thing I accidentally discovered less than 2 months ago while having my iDSD's RCA outs connected to my active speakers is that plugging something in the 3.5mm input makes it the default input… I didn't know that was what iFi meant by "preamp." So say, through the iDSD, I can connect my iPod Video through an LOD to my speakers while being able to increase/control output. Whether the preamp adds flavour to that signal, I have yet to test.


----------



## roamling

thenoose said:


> Is the iFi Micro iDSD the poor man's Chord Hugo?




i would rather be the " poor" man in this case, price does not always tells how good things are. Seeing for how much the MicroiDSD goes used online tells me better grab one for the asking price right now and dont worry about rainbow colours...


----------



## JuleZ3C

Ah ah ah!
 You're absolutely correct too!! 
 Guess I never noticed that feature as I've always used the micro as a preamp with speakers, but I'm sure it's been discussed (yup : http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-3-show-a-little-leg-what-is-it-page-132/720#post_10624731 ) during the crowd design... silly me.
  
 Speaking of preamps... I'm getting a Garage1217 project ember in the coming weeks, anyone tried the micro idsd -> ember combo? or specifically 3D enabled + a tube going through HP or speakers?


----------



## jexby

julez3c said:


> Speaking of preamps... I'm getting a Garage1217 project ember in the coming weeks, anyone tried the micro idsd -> ember combo? or specifically 3D enabled + a tube going through HP or speakers?


 
  
 very much looking forward to your Ember impressions, have always admired it from afar. never pulled trigger since a Lyr 2 (and a Lyr 1 in past) was on my main desk.
  
 ears and HE-560 did enjoy the micro iDSD to iTube to iCan stack I heard at RMAF tho, that tube sound was detailed yet smooth.  did seem a step up from the micro iDSD internal Amp.
  
 hoping for more iTube magic in the future from iFi Engineers.
 actually there are tubes in the Retro!


----------



## diamondears

jexby said:


> very much looking forward to your Ember impressions, have always admired it from afar. never pulled trigger since a Lyr 2 (and a Lyr 1 in past) was on my main desk.
> 
> ears and HE-560 did enjoy the micro iDSD to iTube to iCan stack I heard at RMAF tho, that tube sound was detailed yet smooth.  did seem a step up from the micro iDSD internal Amp.
> 
> ...


 

 The micro iDSD>>iTUBE>>iCAN combo is interesting. Could you kindly elaborate on the sound difference vs micro iDSD alone?


----------



## jexby

diamondears said:


> The micro iDSD>>iTUBE>>iCAN combo is interesting. Could you kindly elaborate on the sound difference vs micro iDSD alone?


 
  
 wow, that's a tough recollection to stand behind as my HE-560 headphones only were plugged into iTube>>iCan for a single 4min song perhaps, in the crowded RMAF hall.
 what I can remember was my reaction:
 the iTube>iCan set up with micro iDSD made HE-560 sound more akin to listening to my Lyr 2 than with micro iDSD amp section.
  
 Lyr 2 provides a slight warmth and smoothness, still with deep bass (you can feel and hear) and detail, with a wide soundstage (tube dependent).
 micro iDSD amp powering HE-560 usually sounds narrower in width, with deep bass (you can hear) and detail, but a tad less smoothness to the songs.
  
 iTube>iCan presented more of that smoothness than micro iDSD amp I'd say, but maybe not with as wide a soundstage as Lyr 2 with premium tubes.
 let's just say I'd love to hear more tube implementations by the iFi engineers, since their products won't require $200+ of NOS tubes to make it sound great and tube-like.
  
 HTH.


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> Here to report that this combo works like a charm:
> 
> Sony NWZ-A15 (or A16 / A17) + WMC-NWH10 (OTG cable) + iDSD micro.
> 
> iDSD nano will work as well.


 

 What kind of interface does this cable provide and is this a simple plug and play to stream native PCM 24/96-192 from the Sony to the iDSD micro?


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> What kind of interface does this cable provide and is this a simple plug and play to stream native PCM 24/96-192 from the Sony to the iDSD micro?


 
  
 One side is the male WM-port that goes into the A15 and the other side is a female USB-A.
  
 It isn't streaming. Basically A15 is the host and iDSD is the sleeve, similar to PC to USB DAC. Yes, it will play everything A15 supports.


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> One side is the male WM-port that goes into the A15 and the other side is a female USB-A.
> 
> It isn't streaming. Basically A15 is the host and iDSD is the sleeve, similar to PC to USB DAC. Yes, it will play everything A15 supports.


 

 Thanks ClieOS...  I will use the Sony by itself at the Gym and the two together when at a coffee shop or when traveling by air.


----------



## ClieOS

By the way, I know some of you are looking for a less protruding 1/4' adapter. Besides the one shown on my previous picture , I also find this on Aliexpress:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/6-35mm-to-3-5mm-female-Stereo-Audio-Adapter-FOR-DJ-straight-RF-Coaxial-Adapter-Connector/2028815790.html
  
 I ordered a few and already received them. I can verify it is indeed a shorter version as shown in the picture. It is however just nickel plated and not gold plated.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> Thanks ClieOS...  I will use the Sony by itself at the Gym and the two together when at a coffee shop or when traveling by air.


 
  
 they go great together, you'll love them!


----------



## Amlalsulami

What is Polarity ( - , + ) in Micro iDSD?


----------



## ClieOS

amlalsulami said:


> What is Polarity ( - , + ) in Micro iDSD?


 
  
 This:
  


ifi audio said:


> *Super Duper feature 1.9 *
> 
> Signal Polarity +/- (Digital input only)
> 
> ...


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> This:


 Technically, what does it do?


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Technically, what does it do?


 
  
 It is based on the theory that somewhere in the recording and mastering chain that some music suffer from phase inversion (and sometime, ever on the playback chain. i.e. some IEM has inverted phase by design to achieve a desired sound signature). In simple: as music is in AC form, it swing from a (+) voltage to a (-) voltage and back all the time. In a signal with inverted phase, you get (-) voltage of equal strength instead of the original (+) voltage, or vise versa. We human however isn't particularly sensitive to the absolute phase so most will never notice any difference. However, some people do believe the 'right' phase restore the musicality back into the recording. The polarity switch is for those people who want to correct the phase issue in their setup. So the (+) option will leave your music as it is, where the (-) option will invert the phase of your music (= two negative give a positive).
  
 Or even simpler: Keep it on (+) if you don't hear any difference.


----------



## Amalz

clieos said:


> It is based on the theory that somewhere in the recording and mastering chain that some music suffer from phase inversion (and sometime, ever on the playback chain. i.e. some IEM has inverted phase by design to achieve a desired sound signature). In simple: as music is in AC form, it swing from a (+) voltage to a (-) voltage and back all the time. In a signal with inverted phase, you get (-) voltage of equal strength instead of the original (+) voltage, or vise versa. We human however isn't particularly sensitive to the absolute phase so most will never notice any difference. However, some people do believe the 'right' phase restore the musicality back into the recording. The polarity switch is for those people who want to correct the phase issue in their setup. So the (+) option will leave your music as it is, where the (-) option will invert the phase of your music (= two negative give a positive).
> 
> Or even simpler: Keep it on (+) if you don't hear any difference.


 
 Thank you!!, For me i don't hear difference so i keep it ( + )
  
 Regards


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> It is based on the theory that somewhere in the recording and mastering chain that some music suffer from phase inversion (and sometime, ever on the playback chain. i.e. some IEM has inverted phase by design to achieve a desired sound signature). In simple: as music is in AC form, it swing from a (+) voltage to a (-) voltage and back all the time. In a signal with inverted phase, you get (-) voltage of equal strength instead of the original (+) voltage, or vise versa. We human however isn't particularly sensitive to the absolute phase so most will never notice any difference. However, some people do believe the 'right' phase restore the musicality back into the recording. The polarity switch is for those people who want to correct the phase issue in their setup. So the (+) option will leave your music as it is, where the (-) option will invert the phase of your music (= two negative give a positive).
> 
> Or even simpler: Keep it on (+) if you don't hear any difference.


Thanks!


----------



## LoryWiv

clieos said:


> It is based on the theory that somewhere in the recording and mastering chain that some music suffer from phase inversion (and sometime, ever on the playback chain. i.e. some IEM has inverted phase by design to achieve a desired sound signature). In simple: as music is in AC form, it swing from a (+) voltage to a (-) voltage and back all the time. In a signal with inverted phase, you get (-) voltage of equal strength instead of the original (+) voltage, or vise versa. We human however isn't particularly sensitive to the absolute phase so most will never notice any difference. However, some people do believe the 'right' phase restore the musicality back into the recording. The polarity switch is for those people who want to correct the phase issue in their setup. So the (+) option will leave your music as it is, where the (-) option will invert the phase of your music (= two negative give a positive).
> 
> Or even simpler: Keep it on (+) if you don't hear any difference.


 

 ClieOS, that is a very helpful explanation for us non-audio engineers, thanks. Is it also possible you can clarify the use / optimal settings for the iDSD digital filters as simply? Thus far I prefer the standard (analogue) filter for DSD which seems counterintuitive but "warms" the sound and provides an apparent volume boost or at least thicker signature. For  PCM I generally use Bit-perfect or minimum phase as standard sounds thin with 16 or 24 bit FLAC files. Not sure if any of this has real basis or if it all comes down to trial, error and preference. Still, some underlying theory and principles to guide use would be interesting and much appreciated if they can be in terms as understandable for the non-expert as you offered for polarity.
  
 Thanks for your insights!


----------



## kissmevn

Have anyone try the micro iDSD with Noble K10 ? 
 The K10 is so sensitive that it easily create distorts in some songs.
 It would be great If the ifi micro can solve this then


----------



## BillsonChang007

kissmevn said:


> Have anyone try the micro iDSD with Noble K10 ?
> The K10 is so sensitive that it easily create distorts in some songs.
> It would be great If the ifi micro can solve this then




With XBA-4, theres no hiss at minimum phase


----------



## iFi audio

julez3c said:


> Be aware that if you're using the 3D effect, you'll send the HP version to your amp and speakers... (and that it is so not cool !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

 When 3D is active and the line out is set to Preamp then the HP section gets the HP 3D Sound version and the line Feed gets the Speaker version, the speaker version is similar to the "three dot" position on the iTUBE and only for very narrow speaker placement though.
  
 Hope this clarifies


----------



## hifi25nl

I would like some information on the output analogue stage of iFi micro with setting DIRECT, BitPerfect/extreme filters and RCA output:
  
 1) In this case I understand that the filter is analogue (not digital) but...is also passive? If not, it is made with discrete components or with a chip?
  
 2) The output stage after the filter. Is this a class A stage made with discrete components and the application of feedback? How in general feedback is used in the analogue stages?


----------



## ClieOS

lorywiv said:


> ClieOS, that is a very helpful explanation for us non-audio engineers, thanks. Is it also possible you can clarify the use / optimal settings for the iDSD digital filters as simply? Thus far I prefer the standard (analogue) filter for DSD which seems counterintuitive but "warms" the sound and provides an apparent volume boost or at least thicker signature. For  PCM I generally use Bit-perfect or minimum phase as standard sounds thin with 16 or 24 bit FLAC files. Not sure if any of this has real basis or if it all comes down to trial, error and preference. Still, some underlying theory and principles to guide use would be interesting and much appreciated if they can be in terms as understandable for the non-expert as you offered for polarity.
> 
> Thanks for your insights!


 
  
 For what I know, the difference in DSD filters (which are all analogue) are just how far you will set the low pass filter. Due to the 1 bit nature of DSD, you can't apply any digital processing onto it and therefore analogue filter must be used to cut sampling noise out. The filters selection is just a choice for you to set where to cut off. AFAIK, there never seems to be a common standard on this setting so iFi just let you decide for yourself.
  
 PCM filter is however a different matter. Standard filter and Minimum Phase are both common filter you will find on PCM based DAC. Standard gives linear measurement result on frequency response, but often less than ideal on phase and ringing. Minimum Phase doesn't have phase and ringing issue, but tends to roll-off at the upper treble. The audible difference is that often people will find Standard filter a bit sharper and more detailed on the top, but also grainy at time. Sometime people described it as 'digital sounding'. Opposite to Standard filter, Minimum Phase filter can be found on many higher end DAC because it tends to sound smoother and more musical, or 'analog sounding', if you will. Bit-Perfect is basically NOS, or Non-OverSampling. It is not exactly a filter per se but more on how the DAC chip is set to sample the signal. It is kind of complicated to fully explain it but the short version is that the DAC chip won't do extra processing to the signal and no filter is used on the output. Instead, it relies on human natural limitation of hearing to stop us from hearing any sampling noise. Because of how it works, it tends to be quite noisy and lousy on the measurement, but also being described as being the most analog, musical and life-like when compared to the common oversampling DAC (such as when you used the Standard and Minimum Phase filter). When it comes to choice, Standard and Minimum Phase filter have their own pros and cons so there isn't a technically better filter to use (though some manufacturer will argue they have developed better filter than the above two, but that's another story). As with Bit-Perfect filter, it is somewhat of a 'doing the wrong thing but has the right result' deal. Even supporter often can't fully explain why they prefer NOS.
  
 The whole point, however, is that these filters are there for you to choose from. Despite all the theory, you get to decide which one you like better.


----------



## maricius

I'm pretty sure I'm not crazy but when used for hours to the extent that it's warm to the touch, the volume potentiometer has much less resistance as compared to being turned on for the first time in a number of hours. There's nothing detrimental to the sound or anything like that. It's just something I've noticed as it moves much much much easier (not necessarily a good thing) but always reverts back.


----------



## LoryWiv

clieos said:


> For what I know, the difference in DSD filters (which are all analogue) are just how far you will set the low pass filter. Due to the 1 bit nature of DSD, you can't apply any digital processing onto it and therefore analogue filter must be used to cut sampling noise out. The filters selection is just a choice for you to set where to cut off. AFAIK, there never seems to be a common standard on this setting so iFi just let you decide for yourself.
> 
> PCM filter is however a different matter. Standard filter and Minimum Phase are both common filter you will find on PCM based DAC. Standard gives linear measurement result on frequency response, but often less than ideal on phase and ringing. Minimum Phase doesn't have phase and ringing issue, but tends to roll-off at the upper treble. The audible difference is that often people will find Standard filter a bit sharper and more detailed on the top, but also grainy at time. Sometime people described it as 'digital sounding'. Opposite to Standard filter, Minimum Phase filter can be found on many higher end DAC because it tends to sound smoother and more musical, or 'analog sounding', if you will. Bit-Perfect is basically NOS, or Non-OverSampling. It is not exactly a filter per se but more on how the DAC chip is set to sample the signal. It is kind of complicated to fully explain it but the short version is that the DAC chip won't do extra processing to the signal and no filter is used on the output. Instead, it relies on human natural limitation of hearing to stop us from hearing any sampling noise. Because of how it works, it tends to be quite noisy and lousy on the measurement, but also being described as being the most analog, musical and life-like when compared to the common oversampling DAC (such as when you used the Standard and Minimum Phase filter). When it comes to choice, Standard and Minimum Phase filter have their own pros and cons so there isn't a technically better filter to use (though some manufacturer will argue they have developed better filter than the above two, but that's another story). As with Bit-Perfect filter, it is somewhat of a 'doing the wrong thing but has the right result' deal. Even supporter often can't fully explain why they prefer NOS.
> 
> The whole point, however, is that these filters are there for you to choose from. Despite all the theory, you get to decide which one you like better.



 

Onca again, that is as clear and helpful an expllanation as I've seen on the digital filter options. Thanks for putting ity in terms I can understand, ClieOS!


----------



## daku312

I'm curious...is anyone else having trouble with their dsd micro and Tidal? While I'm having no trouble through IOS, camera kit, and ipad or iphone, I can't get sound on laptops or mac minis and have tried on three different Macs. The Micro works with Spotify and Audirvana on these machines, and other dacs work with Tidal, so I'm pretty sure something is off with the Micro. Curious if anyone out there has a fix. I have tried switching cables and using the adapter included with my octagon kit but nothing has worked thus far. Have a support ticket open but thought I would see if anyone in the community has experienced the same problems or have ideas. Thanks!


----------



## Sound Eq

wow i got i think the best ever musical experience the idsd alone gave me shivers with the audeze, and then i amped it with the alo rx mk3 and i was lifted to another dimension of enjoyment, i can't believe what i am hearing amazing soundatsge, warmth, great bass I never ever heard such a great combo in my life knowing i had owned the chord hugo before, I truly am so happy that I think I reached my end game, anyone with the audeze will enjoy this combo greatly, also with the idsd alone, but the combo was beyond my belief i did not even have to eq anything in the onkyo player everything sounding so great and full rich layered and warmth dam I wish you all could hear what I am hearing simply marvelous


----------



## tf1216

daku312 said:


> I'm curious...is anyone else having trouble with their dsd micro and Tidal? While I'm having no trouble through IOS, camera kit, and ipad or iphone, I can't get sound on laptops or mac minis and have tried on three different Macs. The Micro works with Spotify and Audirvana on these machines, and other dacs work with Tidal, so I'm pretty sure something is off with the Micro. Curious if anyone out there has a fix. I have tried switching cables and using the adapter included with my octagon kit but nothing has worked thus far. Have a support ticket open but thought I would see if anyone in the community has experienced the same problems or have ideas. Thanks!


 
 I have heard folks being successful using their USB DACs with JRiver and TIDAL.  To me, it sounds like you are having a problem with your laptop output settings, not your iDSD.
  
 Do you have JRiver or another audio program?


----------



## daku312

Thanks for your reply. I do have J River at home but I've been running tidal through the chrome player and the desktop app. It worked for a time and then cut out. The macs recognize the micro in settings and work with other programs (spotify, Audirvana) but not with Tidal.


----------



## tf1216

Which operating system are you using on your MAC?


----------



## daku312

Was on Mountain Lion and tried updating to Yosemite. Same problem on both.


----------



## tf1216

Well, I was reading the comments from this link http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/607-tidal-hifi-revolution-starts-today/comments3.html and it appears people are having success with a similar setup to yours.
  
 Maybe try Tidal support as well.


----------



## daku312

Thanks will do. After updating flash can get the desktop app working but still no luck on the chrome web player.


----------



## tf1216

Good luck daku312.


----------



## BillsonChang007

daku312 said:


> I'm curious...is anyone else having trouble with their dsd micro and Tidal? While I'm having no trouble through IOS, camera kit, and ipad or iphone, I can't get sound on laptops or mac minis and have tried on three different Macs. The Micro works with Spotify and Audirvana on these machines, and other dacs work with Tidal, so I'm pretty sure something is off with the Micro. Curious if anyone out there has a fix. I have tried switching cables and using the adapter included with my octagon kit but nothing has worked thus far. Have a support ticket open but thought I would see if anyone in the community has experienced the same problems or have ideas. Thanks!




I uses Micro iDSD on Tidal desktop as well and it works for me. Check the output source at your Tidal setting and set it to iFi Driver. 

For Windows, make sure you go to Control Panel -> Hardware & Sound -> Manage Audio. Set iFi as default. 

Let me know if it works and happy listening! 
Billson


----------



## diamondears

Standard filter reproduce all frequencies without coloration at all (no roll offs with audible frequency range, but steeply/suddenly rolls at the limit of audible hearing--around 20khz), but trade off is there's both pre and post ringing. So it sounds digitally or fatiguing. This is why it is the best performing for objective measurements. So, all details are there with correct timing of all frequencies as per the recording; hence, very musical and PRAT is perfect. Only downside is, as I said, the pre and post-ringings, which sounds digitally or fatiguing to me. 

Minimum Phase filter rolls off the higher frequencies and starts doing so at frequencies lower than 20khz (from around 10khz, IIRC), though the rolling off is slow, not suddenly. It's trade-off is it has some time-domain delays of the frequencies. So, objectively, frequency reproduction and timing isn't perfect, this is why it doesn't perform ideally at the measurements. 

However, minimum phase filter has NO pre-ringing, which is actually what happens in a live recording. It has post-ringing, but this actually happens in a live recording and IMO helps in imaging/soundstaging and sound decays. Together with the slow roll-off of frequency from 10khz up, this sounds very analogue-like to me; hence, my favorite filter. 

Btw, the time domain delays--it happens in a live recording too, and gives out more body and fullness to the lower frequencies, which I'm sure everybody would like. 

It's good that people are beginning to look at the importance of digital filters. IMO, the biggest factor in sound quality among the better implemented DACs out there. 

My 2 cents. 

Cheers.


----------



## daku312

Thanks...got it going with the desktop player. As you suggested, it had to do with the Tidal settings. I do like the web player on Chrome, but i can live without it in the interim. Am not seeing a similar output setting anywhere there or in Chrome settings. Appreciate the tips from all.


----------



## BillsonChang007

daku312 said:


> Thanks...got it going with the desktop player. As you suggested, it had to do with the Tidal settings. I do like the web player on Chrome, but i can live without it in the interim. Am not seeing a similar output setting anywhere there or in Chrome settings. Appreciate the tips from all.


 
 Enjoy!


----------



## Amlalsulami




----------



## BillsonChang007

amlalsulami said:


>




That is ome awesome, set up!!


----------



## Amlalsulami

billsonchang007 said:


> That is ome awesome, set up!!


 
  
 Thank you !! Come to me to try


----------



## BillsonChang007

Friend, we are heads and tails away from each other xD


----------



## TheNoose

amlalsulami said:


>


 
 Droooool...so which set up do you regard as your number one here?


----------



## diamondears

amlalsulami said:


>


 Excellent setup/collection you got there.


----------



## diamondears

thenoose said:


> Droooool...so which set up do you regard as your number one here?


 Yeah, which is on top? How's the Audio-GD with the LCD-2F?


----------



## Amlalsulami

diamondears said:


> Excellent setup/collection you got there.


 
  
  


thenoose said:


> Droooool...so which set up do you regard as your number one here?


 
  
  


diamondears said:


> Yeah, which is on top? How's the Audio-GD with the LCD-2F?


 
  
 I just got my iDSD before 2 days i just burn it about 24h,
  
 The lyr 2 with Bifrost great Combo with HE-500 and HD800
 The Mid in HE-500 rich !! And the vocals awesome The Base and Sub bass OMG very Depth I can't tell you how much i enjoy !!!
  About the HD 800 The best Soundstage and​Imaging​in a Gaming OMG!!!! , The Treble is Very great and for me the treble so much Bright , The Base ​Harsh
 The HE-500 and HD800 those are have a very clear Detalis !!! 
  
 About Audio -GD 28 i have return for Fix it because it's have a Click Sound i just used about 3 day and i return !!
 And my LCD-2 F i have send it to RAzordog Audio to replace it with a new one!! Just used for a 1 day and then i can't hear anything the Driver i think is deactivate


----------



## Sound Eq

one question what does polarity do as when i switch it nothing happens
  
 i need just few answers on technical things
  
 1- minimum phase is the most warm one right?
 2- for audeze its best to use turbo and iem off?


----------



## CriticalTodd

sound eq said:


> one question what does polarity do as when i switch it nothing happens
> 
> i need just few answers on technical things
> 
> ...


 
  
 #1 - just look back a couple of pages or search the thread, it's literally JUST been discussed.
  
 #2 - I don't know but, unless your Audeze are iems, why would you turn that on? I think turbo is just if your headphones aren't getting enough power on the other modes so if eco and normal aren't cutting it, move over to turbo.


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> one question what does polarity do as when i switch it nothing happens




http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/1785#post_11094616


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> one question what does polarity do as when i switch it nothing happens
> 
> i need just few answers on technical things
> 
> ...




IMO, yes the Minimum Phase is bit warm, others are not.

For Audeze LCD-2, Turbo is too much, Normal has too little volume range, Eco is just right, both subjectively and objectively. Eco is 2Vrms, which is more than enough even considering headroom for dynamic peaks like soundtracks or classical music.

P.S.: This shows how powerful the iFi micro iDSD is.


----------



## TheNoose

amlalsulami said:


> I just got my iDSD before 2 days i just burn it about 24h,
> 
> The lyr 2 with Bifrost great Combo with HE-500 and HD800
> The Mid in HE-500 rich !! And the vocals awesome The Base and Sub bass OMG very Depth I can't tell you how much i enjoy !!!
> ...


 

 Thanks mate!
  
 Nice nice.


----------



## TheNoose

Has anyone used the iDSD's with either or both of the following accessories? iPurifier and Gemini Cables?
 Can we hear about the improvements they generate please?


----------



## diamondears

thenoose said:


> Has anyone used the iDSD's with either or both of the following accessories? iPurifier and Gemini Cables?
> Can we hear about the improvements they generate please?


 

 IIRC, as discussed in this or the crowd-design thread, the iFi micro iDSD already has the iPurifier and reasons for the Gemini USB cable built-in (galvanic isolation).


----------



## TheNoose

Mmmmm...ok thanks mate, so much to learn about the iDSD. Can't wait for my next bonus pay!
  
 Just found this review from ClieOS:
  
*iPurifier*
To explain it in a simple way, I guess you can say that iPurifier is a kind of EMI filter for USB transmission. I have tried it on my desktop setup, with both nano iDSD and micro iDAC, but doesn’t found it to make any noticeable difference. I do however find that it darken the background when pairing with my Xperia Z2 + nano iDSD a bit, though the effect is pretty subtle. Given it is meant to filter EMI, it makes sense as such since my desktop setup hasn’t really known to have suffer any EMI issue at all. I guess iPurifier is one of those devices that would really help if there is already a persistent case of EMI over the USB connection. Otherwise, you might be able to get away without one. It is more of a fine tuning tool rather than an instant improvement.
  
Here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/reviews/clieos-pens-a-very-technically-proficient-review-of-the-nano-idsdicanipurifier/
  
 Also here too...
 http://www.inearmatters.net/2014/08/impression-ifi-nano-idsd-and-ican-with.html


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> IMO, yes the Minimum Phase is bit warm, others are not.
> 
> For Audeze LCD-2, Turbo is too much, Normal has too little volume range, Eco is just right, both subjectively and objectively. Eco is 2Vrms, which is more than enough even considering headroom for dynamic peaks like soundtracks or classical music.
> 
> P.S.: This shows how powerful the iFi micro iDSD is.




In my experienced, only Turbo with iEMatch on causes audible distortion. Turbo for the LCD was just too much. When I demoed the LCD-2 (not sure what revision), I would use Normal with iEMatch off or iEMatch in High Sensitivity. No distortion in using iEMatch on both Eco and Normal. I also find Normal to add more body to the sound as compared to Eco hence my using of Normal with High Sensitivity or even Ultra Sensitivity sometimes for my efficient Philips Fidelio L2. Could be placebo but as long as I'm happy.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> In my experienced, only Turbo with iEMatch on causes audible distortion. Turbo for the LCD was just too much. When I demoed the LCD-2 (not sure what revision), I would use Normal with iEMatch off or iEMatch in High Sensitivity. No distortion in using iEMatch on both Eco and Normal. I also find Normal to add more body to the sound as compared to Eco hence my using of Normal with High Sensitivity or even Ultra Sensitivity sometimes for my efficient Philips Fidelio L2. Could be placebo but as long as I'm happy.


 

 Read somewhere (can't remember where, can't find it again) that for Audezes, recommeded is the Normal mode. However, I'm not comfortable with using Normal as the volume range is too small...normal listening position for me is just 9 o'clock; more than this and its too loud for me.
  
 However, I find the Normal mode to sound different too. Yeah, bit more body is a good description.
  
 Anybody from iFi can confirm why this is so?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## diamondears

thenoose said:


> Mmmmm...ok thanks mate, so much to learn about the iDSD. Can't wait for my next bonus pay!
> 
> Just found this review from ClieOS:
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, on the nano version its not built-in. Only on the micro iDSD; maybe that's why the iPurifier has no effect on the micro. You have the nano, not micro?


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> Read somewhere (can't remember where, can't find it again) that for Audezes, recommeded is the Normal mode. However, I'm not comfortable with using Normal as the volume range is too small...normal listening position for me is just 9 o'clock; more than this and its too loud for me.
> 
> However, I find the Normal mode to sound different too. Yeah, bit more body is a good description.
> 
> ...




Volume range surely cannot be that small with iEMatch turned on.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> Volume range surely cannot be that small with iEMatch turned on.



I'm wary about using IEMatch when not needed. Increase in output impedance?


----------



## ClieOS

This:
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 1. Not only IEMs as some headphones out there primarily designed for iPhones and such also benefit from iEMatch. Not just ultra-sensitive IEMs will be catered for.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sound Eq

diamondears said:


> I'm wary about using IEMatchwhen not needed. Increase in output impedance?


 

 although to me every setting sounds great but i would like to know what is the ideal setting for audeze
  
 i am using eco and high sensitivity 
  
 what i don't hear any difference in at is this polarity setting


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> although to me every setting sounds great but i would like to know what is the ideal setting for audeze
> 
> i am using eco and high sensitivity
> 
> what i don't hear any difference in at is this polarity setting




"Ideal" is something subjective so we can't exactly tell you what will be best for you… only best for ourselves. When I demoed the LCD-2, I found dynamics to be better on Normal with iEMatch off or at Hifh Sensitivity. I used the BitPerfect Digital Filter as the background noise not very audible even when I concentrate to hear it. I'd have to turn the volume way past listening levels to hear the hum/noise with the LCD. I easily hear it at listening volume with my Philips Fildeio L2 though. The BitPerfect filter seems to keep the sound closer to neutral but still extremely smooth. I hear decay to be faster and notes to be quicker slightly opening up the sound and increasing separation compared to the warmer, fuller sound of Minimum Phase. These differences aren't drastic but it does bring me closer to the music and having the choice between those two is something I enjoy.


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> although to me every setting sounds great but i would like to know what is the ideal setting for audeze
> 
> i am using eco and high sensitivity
> 
> what i don't hear any difference in at is this polarity setting


 Check this out re Audeze requirements:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/509710/audeze-lcd-2-impressions-thread/4845#post_11092766

Looks like Eco mode with 2Vrms is sufficient, even accounting for headroom for dynamic peaks.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> "Ideal" is something subjective so we can't exactly tell you what will be best for you… only best for ourselves. When I demoed the LCD-2, I found dynamics to be better on Normal with iEMatch off or at Hifh Sensitivity. I used the BitPerfect Digital Filter as the background noise not very audible even when I concentrate to hear it. I'd have to turn the volume way past listening levels to hear the hum/noise with the LCD. I easily hear it at listening volume with my Philips Fildeio L2 though. The BitPerfect filter seems to keep the sound closer to neutral but still extremely smooth. I hear decay to be faster and notes to be quicker slightly opening up the sound and increasing separation compared to the warmer, fuller sound of Minimum Phase. These differences aren't drastic but it does bring me closer to the music and having the choice between those two is something I enjoy.



I like Minimum Phase filter the best. Your description of it is exactly my description too. I just like the iFi house sound with it. Deeper, fuller bass, and smooth but not overly smooth mids and treble without sacrificing details at all. Silky smoooooooth plus deep full bodied bass.


----------



## senorx12562

Well, I've just about had it. I reported earlier about some weird artifacts (clicking and popping noises). It went away for awhile but has now reappeared with a vengeance, in every mode, with every format except DSD, of which I have none.. Now it's accompanied by a dropout in preamplifier mode literally every minute (I timed it). It's the strangest thing. I've opened a ticket w/ ifi and I'll let you know. I'm pissed because I really like the sound and features of this thing when it's working properly. Now my Explorer and E07K sound better.


----------



## TheNoose

senorx12562 said:


> Well, I've just about had it. I reported earlier about some weird artifacts (clicking and popping noises). It went away for awhile but has now reappeared with a vengeance, in every mode, with every format except DSD, of which I have none.. Now it's accompanied by a dropout in preamplifier mode literally every minute (I timed it). It's the strangest thing. I've opened a ticket w/ ifi and I'll let you know. I'm pissed because I really like the sound and features of this thing when it's working properly. Now my Explorer and E07K sound better.




Wow, first time I hear of such a serious breakdown.

Hope they fix/replace this for you real quick.


----------



## maricius

senorx12562 said:


> Well, I've just about had it. I reported earlier about some weird artifacts (clicking and popping noises). It went away for awhile but has now reappeared with a vengeance, in every mode, with every format except DSD, of which I have none.. Now it's accompanied by a dropout in preamplifier mode literally every minute (I timed it). It's the strangest thing. I've opened a ticket w/ ifi and I'll let you know. I'm pissed because I really like the sound and features of this thing when it's working properly. Now my Explorer and E07K sound better.


 

 Very unfortunate


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> Very unfortunate



What's unfortunate is that these "breakdowns" has to be posted publicly when it's not clear there's nothing wrong, procedurally and mechanical-wise, on upstream gear and the user haven't finished resolving the issue yet with iFi audio themselves.


----------



## senorx12562

diamondears said:


> What's unfortunate is that these "breakdowns" has to be posted publicly when it's not clear there's nothing wrong, procedurally and mechanical-wise, on upstream gear and the user haven't finished resolving the issue yet with iFi audio themselves.




Really? So, if one cannot say something nice, say nothing? I've been posting about this item, here, since I received it, most of which posts have been very positive. But when I have an issue, suddenly I should keep quiet? OMG. Wouldn't want to piss off a vendor. Have you been reading this thread?


----------



## maricius

Update. I retract my previous statement. With my new (well second-hand but well kept) Alpha Dog, Turbo with High Sensitivity has no distortion. Turbo with Ultra Sensitivity is like 40% distortion or something idk. I use either Normal with iEMatch turned off or Turbo at High Sensitivity for best sound quality.


----------



## technobear

senorx12562 said:


> Well, I've just about had it. I reported earlier about some weird artifacts (clicking and popping noises). It went away for awhile but has now reappeared with a vengeance, in every mode, with every format except DSD, of which I have none.. Now it's accompanied by a dropout in preamplifier mode literally every minute (I timed it). It's the strangest thing. I've opened a ticket w/ ifi and I'll let you know. I'm pissed because I really like the sound and features of this thing when it's working properly. Now my Explorer and E07K sound better.




Check the iFi driver setup dialog settings.

The 'USB Streaming Mode' should be 'Safe' or 'Extra Safe'.

I find an 'ASIO buffer Size' of 2048 samples is enough but you might need to increase it.

Most player software also has other buffer settings you can increase.

This sounds like a classic 'computer not keeping up' issue.

Edit: the iDSD must be 'on' and connected to get to this dialog it seems.


----------



## kissmevn

Just got the ifi micro idsd today. Out of the box, I hear a very big ss, good image, deep bass and sparkle high so It's good. But a small problem is the mid seems a little "distort" and "spikes" (not so smooth) on some tracks. Did anyone experience it like me?
 An will it improve with burn in ?


----------



## technobear

kissmevn said:


> Just got the ifi micro idsd today. Out of the box, I hear a very big ss, good image, deep bass and sparkle high so It's good. But a small problem is the mid seems a little "distort" and "spikes" (not so smooth) on some tracks. Did anyone experience it like me?
> An will it improve with burn in ?




Yes and Yes. 

It takes 200 hours.

Edit: the iDSD is not unusual in this regard. This applies to all modern microelectronics.


----------



## maricius

kissmevn said:


> Just got the ifi micro idsd today. Out of the box, I hear a very big ss, good image, deep bass and sparkle high so It's good. But a small problem is the mid seems a little "distort" and "spikes" (not so smooth) on some tracks. Did anyone experience it like me?
> An will it improve with burn in ?


 

 If you think it sounds good now… wooooooh… you're in for a treat once things settle down nicely.


----------



## senorx12562

technobear said:


> Check the iFi driver setup dialog settings.
> 
> The 'USB Streaming Mode' should be 'Safe' or 'Extra Safe'.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks technobear.
  
 This is the info I sent to ifi:
  
David,
 
Thank you for your prompt reply. I will answer your questions as best I can:
 
Sony Vaio laptopVPCF12AFM (

Intel® CoreTM i3-350M processor With a 3MB L3 cache and 2.26GHz processor speed.
4GB DDR3 memory For multitasking power, expandable to 8GB.
Blu-ray Disc-enabled DVD±RW/CD-RW drive
500GB Serial ATA hard drive (5400 rpm)
Stock
Playing through Music Bee and JRiver (I have both)
Using the blue usb cable that came with the unit
Sennheiser HD600-stock
Playing PCM (everything from 320 kbps MP3s to 24/96 and redbook FLAC files)
I don't have a usb OTG cable to try an android device, although playing the same files using my fiio x3 as transport> coaxial out> iDSD spdif in plays perfectly.
Device driver version: 2.20.0
Settings - usb streaming mode-minimum latency, ASIO buffer size 8192 samples. 
Firmware version: don't know where to find this, but tell me how if you still need it and I'll get it to you.
The clicking/popping noises are more prominent during quiet passages, but they are always present. The dropouts last .5-1 second, and happen exactly 1 minute apart 
  
Let me know what other info you might need. Thank you.
_____________________________________________
 
As you can see, technobear, my usb streaming mode and asio buffer size differ from your recomendations, but oddly, those settings have never been changed, and the device has worked perfectly most of the time. The noise has been intermittent, but the dropouts just started last night. I'm going to fool around with some settings, including technobear's suggestions and wait for a response from ifi. I'll update. Where do I find the driver setup dialog settings?
 
edit: I tried the suggested settings, no change.


----------



## technobear

senorx12562 said:


> [*][COLOR=333333]Settings - usb streaming mode-minimum latency, ASIO buffer size 8192 samples. [/COLOR]




This is your problem. Try a more relaxed USB Streaming Mode. I suggest 'Safe'.


----------



## JootecFromMars

technobear said:


> This is your problem. Try a more relaxed USB Streaming Mode. I suggest 'Safe'.




Agree. I have the same issues with anything other than Safe and Extra Safe on my old Core 2 Duo based laptop. Safe was the default on mine so it looks like the setting has been changed.

Also note that the USB port you use may also be shared with something else on your laptop... Keyboard, trackpad, other USB port etc....

Edit: The latest USB driver is 2.23 I believe.


----------



## technobear

I just wanted to add a...

!! WOW !!



The iDSD and iCAN are really doing the business tonight on parts of my music collection I haven't visited for a while. I don't remember these tracks ever sounding this good before.

Thank you iFi Audio


----------



## senorx12562

technobear said:


> This is your problem. Try a more relaxed USB Streaming Mode. I suggest 'Safe'.





jootecfrommars said:


> Agree. I have the same issues with anything other than Safe and Extra Safe on my old Core 2 Duo based laptop. Safe was the default on mine so it looks like the setting has been changed.
> 
> Also note that the USB port you use may also be shared with something else on your laptop... Keyboard, trackpad, other USB port etc....
> 
> Edit: The latest USB driver is 2.23 I believe.




Tried both safe and extra safe, no change. And as I said, the device worked perfectly numerous times, and those settings have never been changed. That being the case, it would kind of defy logic if the settings that have never been changed are causing an intermittent fault (s). I will have to look into the latest driver though.


----------



## technobear

Hmmm. Puzzling. You are using a couple of heavyweight player applications there. You could try foobar2000. It uses far fewer resources.

Are there any buffers in JRiver or Music Bee that you could try increasing.

'Safe' has always been the default mode for the iFi driver as far as I'm aware unless iFi have changed it recently. I experimented with other modes and had problems with clicks so returned to 'Safe' on my low power laptop (Acer Aspire V11) and 'Reliable' on my Core i5 desktop.


----------



## senorx12562

I love music and am continuing to learn more about computer audio, here as well as other sites, but I am by no means an expert. I had foobar 2000 previously, and didn't find it very user-friendly. I like to tinker a little, but not unsuccessfully, and I found foobar to definitely not be plug and play Whereas both Music Bee and JRiver are just that, especially JRiver. Ironically I have a second PC with an i7 processor, 8gb of RAM. That one runs Music Bee only (I'm still demoing JRiver) and it does the same thing. I'll report back when I hear from ifi. Btw, so far I'm pretty impressed with their customer support. Makes me hope even more that they can help me, especially in light of how absolutely fantastic the sound and feature set is.


----------



## technobear

Could you try another USB cable with the adaptor, just to eliminate the blue cable. A poorly made cable can also cause these symptoms.


----------



## BillsonChang007

I set mine at Extra Safe and 8192 sample. No issue at all. 

The 2.23 driver on some system, may not work such as my Window 7 32-bit but it works with my Windows 8.1 64-bit. In case the 2.23 driver install fail, use the 2.20 instead. It is just below the 2.23 download link on iFi Download


----------



## diamondears

technobear said:


> I just wanted to add a...
> 
> !! WOW !!
> 
> ...



There's an improvement with the iCAN vs using the micro iDSD's amp section?


----------



## technobear

diamondears said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > I just wanted to add a...
> ...




Yes. 

The T1 is efficient so the extra power of the iDSD's normal and turbo modes is not needed.

The iCAN offers 2 levels of XBASS. I find both useful.

The iCAN offers crossfeed as well as 3D. This is also sometimes useful.

The iCAN has a class A output stage. The iDSD has a class AB output stage.

It's been a while since I compared them so I'll refrain from specifics. Maybe if I get time later, I'll compare them again.


----------



## maricius




----------



## RadioWonder737

Three Free DSD music files from Blue Coast Records... Just sign-in or sign-up and download the 2.8 MHz files... Unpack after downloading... Plays great on my Micro iDSD...
http://audiogate.bluecoastrecords.com/


----------



## diamondears

technobear said:


> Yes.
> 
> The T1 is efficient so the extra power of the iDSD's normal and turbo modes is not needed.
> 
> ...


 

 I see. Would probably try that as well, especially with my nano iDSD. Yeah the XBass and 3D I like on a desktop amp. What I'm surprised about is that the iCAN is Class A; yeah website says that. Didn't realize that. Thank you.
  
 Keep us posted once you have the time later.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Yeah! My next target is possibly iCan for my next amp as I wish to have both sold and tube on my desk instead of Garage1217 and iDSD. Look forward to see the combo


----------



## jexby

billsonchang007 said:


> Yeah! My next target is possibly iCan for my next amp as I wish to have both sold and tube on my desk instead of Garage1217 and iDSD.


 
  
 could you clarify this statement a bit?  are you interested in replacing a Garage1217 amp you already own?
 or
 feel that iCan would be a better SS amp than a Garage1217 SS amp?
  
 thanks,


----------



## diamondears

If iFi audio would make the iFi micro iDSD charge the iPhone while connected and playing, this would really make the micro iDSD an "end-gaming" integrated PCM/DSD DAC+amp. This is the only thing that's keeping me from stop using it---having to charge the iPhone in the middle of a listening session.


----------



## john57

diamondears said:


> If iFi audio would make the iFi micro iDSD charge the iPhone while connected and playing, this would really make the micro iDSD an "end-gaming" integrated PCM/DSD DAC+amp. This is the only thing that's keeping me from stop using it---having to charge the iPhone in the middle of a listening session.


 
 So you saying that the micro, SmartPower® Socket does not do the job you wanted it to do? Never tried it.


----------



## diamondears

john57 said:


> So you saying that the micro, SmartPower® Socket does not do the job you wanted it to do? Never tried it.


 

 It charges the iPhone, but you can't play and use the iPhone in that case as a source player. My case is exceptional though as I surf the internet using that iPhone during listening sessions. If I just listen, which unlike me most people are, the iPhone's battery would last an eternity.


----------



## diamondears

diamondears said:


> It charges the iPhone, but you can't play and use the iPhone in that case as a source player. My case is exceptional though as I surf the internet using that iPhone during listening sessions. If I just listen, which unlike me most people are, the iPhone's battery would last an eternity.


 

 I understand though that mixing power/charging and player signal substantially affects sound quality. So I think I understand iFi audio for not doing this. SQ comes first. Besides, like I said, very few people surf the internet using that same iPhone they are using as source player while listening to the micro iDSD...


----------



## BillsonChang007

jexby said:


> could you clarify this statement a bit?  are you interested in replacing a Garage1217 amp you already own?
> or
> feel that iCan would be a better SS amp than a Garage1217 SS amp?
> 
> thanks,




Ingot the Garage1217 Project Sunrise III tube amp. Its a great amp. Little to no omplains at all (see review). But would love to have a standalone SS amp as well.but given that iDSD's built in amp is so good, i thk that iCan Micro can be the way to go that is within my budget (in the future).


----------



## maricius

Final notes on Power Settings and iEMatch combinations:
  
 Eco and Normal have no evident distortions on any iEMatch setting. Eco with iEMatch "Off" is slightly louder/more powerful than Normal with iEMatch "High Sensitivity" while on the same area of the volume pot's travel. Subjectively, Normal "High Sensitivity" adds a little more body and warmth to the sound. Turbo with iEMatch "Ultra Sensitivity" has evident distortion throughout the spectrum right away. Impossible to go unnoticed. When Turbo has no evident distortion with iEMatch "Off." Turbo has no evident distortion with "High Sensitivity" all the way to 1 o'clock. As it approaches 2 o'clock, there is some distortion on the bass, especially noticeable on deep bass. Past 2 o'clock, distortion is evident throughout the spectrum but less so than on "Ultra Sensitivity." I find Turbo to do the same as Normal to Eco, that is to add a little more body and bass to the sound. This could be concluded to be a form of added distortion as to achieve similar levels within the 12 to 2 o'clock range would require one to use the rematch setting. However, past 1 o'clock on Turbo "High Sensitivity" is way too loud for me with what is comfortable listening on my Alpha Dog to be at around 12 o'clock or very slightly more. At this certain point of the travel and settings, distortion is inaudible to me and I do enjoy the added PRaT. 
  
 I don't expect the exact same results on every unit or with every headphone. My go-to setting for my Alpha Dog would be Normal "Off" on either "BitPerfect" or "Minimum Phase." XBass is turned on and the bass screw on the Alpha Dog is turned one whole rotation.


----------



## CriticalTodd

maricius said:


> Eco and Normal have no evident distortions on any iEMatch setting. Eco with iEMatch "Off" is slightly louder/more powerful than Normal with iEMatch "High Sensitivity" while on the same area of the volume pot's travel. Subjectively, Normal "High Sensitivity" adds a little more body and warmth to the sound. *Turbo with iEMatch "Ultra Sensitivity" has evident distortion throughout the spectrum right away. Impossible to go unnoticed. When Turbo has no evident distortion with iEMatch "Off." Turbo has no evident distortion with "High Sensitivity" all the way to 1 o'clock. As it approaches 2 o'clock, there is some distortion on the bass, especially noticeable on deep bass. Past 2 o'clock, distortion is evident throughout the spectrum but less so than on "Ultra Sensitivity."* I find Turbo to do the same as Normal to Eco, that is to add a little more body and bass to the sound. This could be concluded to be a form of added distortion as to achieve similar levels within the 12 to 2 o'clock range would require one to use the rematch setting. However, past 1 o'clock on Turbo "High Sensitivity" is way too loud for me with what is comfortable listening on my Alpha Dog to be at around 12 o'clock or very slightly more. At this certain point of the travel and settings, distortion is inaudible to me and I do enjoy the added PRaT...


 
  
 From IFI:
  


ifi audio said:


> The iEmatch circuit reduces the output from the Amplifier when too powerful and really should be applied after first engaging "Eco" mode and only if there is still insufficient volume control range.
> 
> This is like flooring the accelerator and then applying brakes - just use the Power mode to use with your desired headphone first. Turbo @ 4W is too much for most headphones out there.


 
  
 FYI.


----------



## daku312

If anyone is curious about the Tidal issue I was mentioning, Ifi's support was able to help me out. Below the steps they gave me to solve the problem; I am happily using the web player once again. Great support experience...yet another reason to be happy with this product. I only had to disable the first file to get sound back on Chrome.  
  
Dear David,

There has been a recent problem with audio playback via internet usage. Mainly occurring using Google Chrome.

This is due to a Adobe Flash Player plug-in.
  

chrome://plugins/ Type into your Chrome search bar.
Expand the details tab - Top right corner.
Navigate to Adobe Flash Player - There should be 2 files.
Disable the first.
Try and see if this is working after browser relaunch.
If not disable the second and try again.


----------



## maricius

criticaltodd said:


> From IFI:
> 
> 
> FYI.


 

 Yes. I'm aware of that post. I posted my findings because I found that increase in body to the sound to be worthwhile albeit incremental. I'm not the only user to enjoy such settings. Cheers.


----------



## Sound Eq

so conclusion for warmest full bodied sound settings is it
  
 Normal--- minimum phase, and iem match off   ??????


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> Yes. I'm aware of that post. I posted my findings because I found that increase in body to the sound to be worthwhile albeit incremental. I'm not the only user to enjoy such settings. Cheers.



Very slight difference in sound is I think due to slight increase in output impedance of the amp when IEMatch is activated. This is like having output impedance selection settings. Great to have. A bit more output impedance I think causes the warmer sound because of more decay in bass notes.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Normal the 3d settings makes things a little brighter for me as I hate Warm after that very little maters in warmth 
Al


----------



## kissmevn

I plugged in the micro idsd to my lg g3 but no sound produced by the native player or youtube app. Should I need another app to detect the Dac ?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

HibyMusic or USB Audio player pro app needed  With Android 5, it should work without, but with Android 4 you need this apps.


----------



## mogulmaster

my IEMatch nob fell off - can I order one somehow?


----------



## BillsonChang007

mogulmaster said:


> my IEMatch nob fell off - can I order one somehow?


 
 I am sure your unit is still within iFi-Audio warranty period. Why not open a ticket and contact them for infos


----------



## mogulmaster

billsonchang007 said:


> I am sure your unit is still within iFi-Audio warranty period. Why not open a ticket and contact them for infos


 
 Thanks. 
  
 Also folks, TIDAL is a lossless streaming service available in the US and Canada I believe. I just got it, it's awesome. I don't know where to put this besides here lol


----------



## BillsonChang007

mogulmaster said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Also folks, TIDAL is a lossless streaming service available in the US and Canada I believe. I just got it, it's awesome. I don't know where to put this besides here lol


 
 Tidal is indeed, an awesome streaming system! I uses it myself although I might unsubscribe it next year since it is not really supported in my country yet [Brunei] and I have to use VPN Server to make it work. 
  
 Tidal is currently available in US and UK


----------



## beemarman

I’m no audiophile and can sometimes find it hard to break down how some equipment sound, but I do know when something sounds ok, really good or really bad.
  
 My list of equipment are as follows
  
 AK240
 AK100ii
 Cowon P1
 Chord Hugo
 JH Roxanne
 HD800
 LCD v2
 Oppo P1
  
 So as you can see I have either got it or have had it in the past.
  
  
 Now to my latest and cheapest gear.  The ifi Micro. All I can say is it does match much of the kit above in sound quality, but where it beats them all is in value. This thing is amazing and comparing to my Hugo I can honestly say the ifi is 90%  of what the Hugo in sound quality does but for nearly £1k cheaper.
  
  For portable use I’ve retried the Hugo and would now solely use the ifi with my AK100ii and my iPod touch as source. Another thing I love about the ifi is the ease of use. With the Hugo you have to turn it on and then fiddle with the switch in in order to select what input source you’re going to use. Don’t need to do this with the ifi.
  
 One final thought. For strictly home use, plugged into a high end amp I’ll still go for the Hugo, but for mainly portable use or on a budget then the ifi means. You’re not going to be missing much using the ifi when compared to other higher much more expensive gear out there and that’s a fact.
  
 I think after Xmas a few of my other gear are going to go in the for sale section. The ifi is definitely not going to be one of them.
  
 Happy Xmas.


----------



## maricius

beemarman said:


> I’m no audiophile and can sometimes find it hard to break down how some equipment sound, but I do know when something sounds ok, really good or really bad.
> 
> My list of equipment are as follows
> 
> ...


 

 How do you like the iDSD with the Roxanne? Are yours the custom version or the universal?


----------



## beemarman

maricius said:


> How do you like the iDSD with the Roxanne? Are yours the custom version or the universal?


 
  
  
  
 I haven't tried it with my Roxanne yet, but it sounds good with my Sony Z7 and Ultrasone ED8. I don't see it being a problem with my Custom Roxanne.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It plays fine but it's a tad too warm for me. As the Roxane's are already a tad warm too.
So in a combo it's too much. But eq fixes this fine. Also the 3D helps as well.
Al


----------



## guyuemuziye

beemarman said:


> I haven't tried it with my Roxanne yet, but it sounds good with my Sony Z7 and Ultrasone ED8. I don't see it being a problem with my Custom Roxanne.




I am too planning to pair iDSD Micro with a SONY MDR-Z7. I have ordered Z7 but not iDSD yet. Any further input on this combo is greatly appreciated!

Given the the extremely positive feedbacks on PHA3 & Z7 combo, I do concern a bit about the bass will be overwhelmed and the high will be rolled off from a Z7&iDSD combo. 

It might be a better match for Z7, but the dac/amp alone, I do believe iDSD Micro is much more flexible&powerful and the PHA 3 is apparently over priced compared to IFI product. I am kinda of in pain to choose between these two...... help me out please...... thanks.


----------



## diamondears

guyuemuziye said:


> I am too planning to pair iDSD Micro with a SONY MDR-Z7. I have ordered Z7 but not iDSD yet. Any further input on this combo is greatly appreciated!
> 
> Given the the extremely positive feedbacks on PHA3 & Z7 combo, I do concern a bit about the bass will be overwhelmed and the high will be rolled off from a Z7&iDSD combo.
> 
> It might be a better match for Z7, but the dac/amp alone, I do believe iDSD Micro is much more flexible&powerful and the PHA 3 is apparently over priced compared to IFI product. I am kinda of in pain to choose between these two...... help me out please...... thanks.




The iFi micro iDSD's 3D option is perfect for your HP, IMHO. It adds a bit of treble to create that 3D holographic sound. So you won't be disappointed IMHO.


----------



## guyuemuziye

diamondears said:


> The iFi micro iDSD's 3D option is perfect for your HP, IMHO. It adds a bit of treble to create that 3D holographic sound. So you won't be disappointed IMHO.




Thanks for the input . Will the 3D effect distort the imaging and sound stage or alter the shape of vocals(just like what Sony's clear audio + did)? Thx in advance.


----------



## MLGrado

Hello all.  Sorry it has been a long time since I have made any contributions to this thread!  I just wanted to make an update saying I am enjoying the iDSD Micro as much as ever, and that the latest firmware/software updates really smoothed over the user experience!  Changing from formats to format, sample rate to sample rate is clean and quiet, regardless of driver or protocol choice!  The product isn't 'perfect', no, but in its current state is one helluva product.  iFi continues to impress, as well, with their customer support.  They listen to their customers, and 'fix' what needs fixing if it can be fixed.  
  
 Secondly..
  
 I would like to report on one upgrade the produced a MAJOR upgrade in sound quality!  I use a 'general purpose' PC with the iDSD, and as such it isn't the best audiophile environment.  I already use the iUSB power and the Gemini cable in an effort to isolate DAC from the PC, but I went one step further this week by adding a Corning Optical USB cable..
  
 http://www.corning.com/opcomm/OpticalCablesbyCorning/products/USB-3.Optical.aspx#.VInkHTHF9rI
  
  
 The Corning cable converts the USB signal from electical to optical.  Therefore any EMI on the data line is 'left behind', as the optical fibers do not transmit EMI, only data.
  
  Now, the WEAKNESS in the Corning cable is that is still uses a couple small copper wires that carry USB power in order to power the cable electronics on either end.  To get around this weakness, I inserted the cable after the iUSB, plugging it into the data port, and then plugging the iFi Gemini cable into the 'receptacle OTG' end of the Corning cable.  
  
 So now, the idea is that any EMI that was on the data line is isolated from the DAC, and the power that runs through the Corning USB is 'clean' power provided by the iUSB.  
  
  
 The change is sound after putting in the Optical USB cable is not trivial.  The soundstage got much larger.  Environmental cues, ambience etc. increased.  The sound lost some edge.. the treble sounds so natural and smooth.  Tiny details I never heard before are coming out of my favorite soundtracks.  
  
 If you have a 'dirty' source like mine, before you invest in a CAPS or some other audiophile PC, or before you get something like the new Auralic Aries, I encourage you to give an iFi iUSB, Gemini cable and Corning USB Optical cable a try.


----------



## john57

The one issue I see with the Corning cable if it is used all by itself will not provide enough power  to charge the Micro.


----------



## MLGrado

Indeed!!  You have to use it with external power.  I haven't tried to plug it in directly and use battery power.  I assume it might work until the battery runs out.


----------



## semeniub

The Corning cable sounds very interesting... I've always wanted the flexibility of using a computer as a source, and if this works to keep EMI away from my DAC's (for a price much less than the TotalDAC USB filter that I have), then I'm all for it.


----------



## semeniub

Question for all - how is everyone enjoying the PCM playback on their micro iDSD? If I remember correctly, the micro plays PCM natively using it's DSD1793 chip. Does that mean it operates as a NOS DAC with PCM?
  
 The reason I'm asking is that I have quite a few other iFi components around the house, so someone suggested that I connect them up to a battery powered NOS DAC (quite inexpensive, but technically good implementation of Philips TDA1543 chip) to compare the sound to a micro iDSD.
  
 I used Audirvana+ to dither everything to 96kHz and then used a Kingrex split USB cable, connected to an iUSBPower to feed an iPurifier plugged into an iLink. This was connected by coax SPDIF to the NOS DAC, with output to an iTUBE.
  
 This gave extremely punchy bass and nice resolution - with only some muddiness playing complex music. It was thoroughly enjoyable - but the system was complex with all the pieces involved.
  
 I tried the micro iDSD in this setup using the SPDIF, with the result being much less punchy, but more resolution and airiness.
  
 Taking the iPurifier and iLink out of the chain, so that the micro is fed a USB only diet gave more or less the same result.
  
 This doesn't change how much I enjoy the micro, but the punchy bass and tones of the NOS DAC were definitely addictive.


----------



## jhwalker

semeniub said:


> Question for all - how is everyone enjoying the PCM playback on their micro iDSD? If I remember correctly, the micro plays PCM natively using it's DSD1793 chip. Does that mean it operates as a NOS DAC with PCM?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is that I have quite a few other iFi components around the house, so someone suggested that I connect them up to a battery powered NOS DAC (quite inexpensive, but technically good implementation of Philips TDA1543 chip) to compare the sound to a micro iDSD.
> 
> ...


 

 The Micro iDSD has iPurifier technology built-in, so there is no need / benefit to add it externally - probably adding too much "filtering" at that point.
  
 If you set the PCM filter to "Bit Perfect", I believe it acts as an NOS DAC (i.e., no filtering, no upsampling), so you have the opportunity to set your filters and up sampling as you wish via Audirvana without any additional processing on the Micro.
  
 . . .and, yes, I am enjoying PCM playback


----------



## BillsonChang007

jhwalker said:


> The Micro iDSD has iPurifier technology built-in, so there is no need / benefit to add it externally - probably adding too much "filtering" at that point.
> 
> If you set the PCM filter to "Bit Perfect", I believe it acts as an NOS DAC (i.e., no filtering, no upsampling), so you have the opportunity to set your filters and up sampling as you wish via Audirvana without any additional processing on the Micro.
> 
> . . .and, yes, I am enjoying PCM playback




+1 to the above. 

Enjoy using it as a DAC standalone for both PCM and DSD. Very natural DAC, great soundstage, details are all there!


----------



## semeniub

jhwalker said:


> The Micro iDSD has iPurifier technology built-in, so there is no need / benefit to add it externally - probably adding too much "filtering" at that point.
> 
> If you set the PCM filter to "Bit Perfect", I believe it acts as an NOS DAC (i.e., no filtering, no upsampling), so you have the opportunity to set your filters and up sampling as you wish via Audirvana without any additional processing on the Micro.
> 
> . . .and, yes, I am enjoying PCM playback


 

 Indeed!
  
 My usual way of using the micro iDSD is with a TotalDAC USB filter cable only, and PCM playback using the Bit Perfect filter. Love it this way. I had tried a quick one-to-one swap, and ended up with a few too many iPurifiers in my earlier post.
  
 So if this is a type of "NOS" also - I'm still curious how the other NOS DAC that I tried (with the TDA1543 chip) managed to give much more hard hitting bass. Must be something particular about the implementation.


----------



## parkman

guyuemuziye said:


> Thanks for the input . Will the 3D effect distort the imaging and sound stage or alter the shape of vocals(just like what Sony's clear audio + did)? Thx in advance.


 
  
 The 3D effect doesn't add any distortion at all that I can ever tell. It does seem to increase the treble which can reveal more harshness/distortions in the recording, however.
 It's a wonderful feature.. I really enjoy it for live music. Makes you feel like you're there.
  
 And the Bit-Perfect filter and the XBass is to DIE for if you ask me. Honestly this is one of the best values I've ever seen in the audio world.. certainly that I've ever purchased.


----------



## parkman

sound eq said:


> so conclusion for warmest full bodied sound settings is it
> 
> Normal--- minimum phase, and iem match off   ??????


 
 I've done a lot of switching back and forth between Minimum Phase and Bit-Perfect, and I have actually extremely sensitive ears when it comes to the high frequencies, and I've found Bit-Perfect to be the most pleasant, warmest sound. Bit-Perfect has been a life saver for me.. truly. I can listen to music at least 2-3x as long. And it's not like my headphones are shrill as is(Audeze LCD-X), but it definitely helps.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

This is why in this hobby one must always listen and determine for them selves what's good or not. From what I just read you and I are on opposite sides of the canyon. Now don't takenthis is your wrong , your not . It's more like what we want. I have been to people's homes to where there system and its nothing I like but if they Hurd mine they would not like it either. We must fine some people we grow to feel have ears or a brain that puts us in sync with what they like . No in doing this we can then us ether to help judge. 
For me the ifi does DSd very well but it's pcm is nice or polite not for me. It's too warm and makes the magic almost vague . Using the 3D setting is the only way to help it or some eq from the transport. I have always said we hear different but get trashed for it. The SW,s you refer to do little to chAnge much . Not saying they do nothing but it's subtle for sure. 
Still it's a cool device for 500 usd. 
Al


----------



## beemarman

guyuemuziye said:


> I am too planning to pair iDSD Micro with a SONY MDR-Z7. I have ordered Z7 but not iDSD yet. Any further input on this combo is greatly appreciated!
> 
> Given the the extremely positive feedbacks on PHA3 & Z7 combo, I do concern a bit about the bass will be overwhelmed and the high will be rolled off from a Z7&iDSD combo.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Sorry for the late reply. I haven't heard the PHA3 so can't really advise you on that. For me the ifi has replaced my Hugo for portable use as I prefer the sound of the ifi to my Hugo.
  
 That's just me, some people would disagree but for the price the ifi is a massive bargain.
  
 You have nothing to lose trying out the ifi with the Z7 first.
  
 Good luck with search.


----------



## diamondears

parkman said:


> I've done a lot of switching back and forth between Minimum Phase and Bit-Perfect, and I have actually extremely sensitive ears when it comes to the high frequencies, and I've found Bit-Perfect to be the most pleasant, warmest sound. Bit-Perfect has been a life saver for me.. truly. I can listen to music at least 2-3x as long. And it's not like my headphones are shrill as is(Audeze LCD-X), but it definitely helps.



What's the characteristics of bit-perfect? I'm familiar with Minimum Phase, how it's made, its technical characteristics. 

But Bit Perfect I have no idea. You saying it's warmer than Minimum Phase?


----------



## Sound Eq

i just love this ifi best thing i bought in 2014
  
 really meets all my needs
  
 i really wish one day and see a DAP from ifi


----------



## BillsonChang007

diamondears said:


> What's the characteristics of bit-perfect? I'm familiar with Minimum Phase, how it's made, its technical characteristics.
> 
> But Bit Perfect I have no idea. You saying it's warmer than Minimum Phase?




iFi Audio's bit perfect has literally no filter at all. Its pure natural but theres slight hisses, only audible when silent on the Micro iDSD


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> What's the characteristics of bit-perfect? I'm familiar with Minimum Phase, how it's made, its technical characteristics.
> 
> But Bit Perfect I have no idea. You saying it's warmer than Minimum Phase?


 
 There are two camps on the belief of which of the two is warmer.


----------



## diamondears

billsonchang007 said:


> iFi Audio's bit perfect has literally no filter at all. Its pure natural but theres slight hisses, only audible when silent on the Micro iDSD



I see. Thanks Billson. 

Yeah makes sense it will have bit of noise as it has no filter, which means no oversampled noise that needs filtering. 

Cheers.


----------



## maricius

billsonchang007 said:


> iFi Audio's bit perfect has literally no filter at all. Its pure natural but theres slight hisses, only audible when silent on the Micro iDSD


 
  


diamondears said:


> I see. Thanks Billson.
> 
> Yeah makes sense it will have bit of noise as it has no filter, which means no oversampled noise that needs filtering.
> 
> Cheers.


 

 Aye but whether that noise is audible even on silences is dependent on system. I hear it on my Philips Fidelio L2 even with mildly condensed passages but only evident in pure silence with my Alpha Dog. Someone here with the LCD-2 could only hear it in silence when the volume would be at deafening levels.


----------



## Sound Eq

i was wondering whats the correct way to the ifi idsd together with alo mkb3 as i am by amping
  
 my set up is
  
 ipod---ifi---alo rx mk3----audeze
  
 what is the best button configuration like ( direct or preamp ) and the remaining buttons is their a specific confiquration for biamping
  
 thanks


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> i was wondering whats the correct way to the ifi idsd together with alo mkb3 as i am by amping
> 
> my set up is
> 
> ...


 
  
 Direct should have slightly better quality over preamp but you wouldn't be able to use XBass or 3D. Choice of digital filter would be dependent on your tastes.


----------



## Sound Eq

maricius said:


> Direct should have slightly better quality over preamp but you wouldn't be able to use XBass or 3D. Choice of digital filter would be dependent on your tastes.


 
 i hope someone from ifi can help or users who know the answer
  
 my setup simply is
  
 ipod---cck----idsd---then i use a 3.5mm cable interconnect to connect the ifi dsd to the alo mk3 ( from ifi headphone out to alo amp in section ) 
  
 so i really appreciate if someone can tell me what setup to use

 also i dont understand u mean with direct i can not use xbass or 3D
  
 can I with preamp use xbass and 3D


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> i hope someone from ifi can help or users who know the answer
> 
> my setup simply is
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh. Direct and Preamp is only for the RCA outputs at the back. I don't think double amping is the best as it may add extra distortion and a lot more signal path. What you want is a RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect your iDSD's DAC section to the ALO mk3. Direct has a line-level output of 2Vrms which is the standard for most DACs. When it is on Direct, it's basically DAC chips to RCA output. When it is on preamp mode, it's DAC chips to volume potentiometer to RCA output. It's a preamp obviously because you can control the DAC output from the iDSD. Preamp on Eco would have a Max output of 2Vrms (volume pot at the max). Normal and Turbo (just keep it at normal) on Preamp has a max output of 5.5Vrms (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Since the volume potentiometer is active, Xbass and 3D can be turned on. These two have no effect on Direct. Since you're going to be using an external headphone amp, I suggest either Direct mode RCA output to your amp's 3.5mm input OR if you want to use XBass or 3D, Preamp on Eco turned to the maximum point so still 2Vrms with the desired Xbass or 3D.


----------



## Sound Eq

maricius said:


> Oh. Direct and Preamp is only for the RCA outputs at the back. I don't think double amping is the best as it may add extra distortion and a lot more signal path. What you want is a RCA to 3.5mm cable to connect your iDSD's DAC section to the ALO mk3. Direct has a line-level output of 2Vrms which is the standard for most DACs. When it is on Direct, it's basically DAC chips to RCA output. When it is on preamp mode, it's DAC chips to volume potentiometer to RCA output. It's a preamp obviously because you can control the DAC output from the iDSD. Preamp on Eco would have a Max output of 2Vrms (volume pot at the max). Normal and Turbo (just keep it at normal) on Preamp has a max output of 5.5Vrms (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Since the volume potentiometer is active, Xbass and 3D can be turned on. These two have no effect on Direct. Since you're going to be using an external headphone amp, I suggest either Direct mode RCA output to your amp's 3.5mm input OR if you want to use XBass or 3D, Preamp on Eco turned to the maximum point so still 2Vrms with the desired Xbass or 3D.


 

 thanks so much for explaining this, i don't know why i prefer preamp, as i still have access to xbass and 3d, although the 3d in preamp does not sound as good as when i use the idsd alone with 3d turned on


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> thanks so much for explaining this, i don't know why i prefer preamp, as i still have access to xbass and 3d, although the 3d in preamp does not sound as good as when i use the idsd alone with 3d turned on


 
 If you use preamp on the micro iDSD, wouldn't it be better if you just max out the volume on the Alo? This way, the Alo functions as a "power amp".


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> thanks so much for explaining this, i don't know why i prefer preamp, as i still have access to xbass and 3d, although the 3d in preamp does not sound as good as when i use the idsd alone with 3d turned on




Pre-amp's 3D and XBass are designed for speakers. If you are using it wit headphone, it will definitely sound weird  

If you wish to bypass the iDSD's amp section and cnnect to another amplifier that you prefered better to power your headphone, switch the output RCA to direct and get a RCA to 3.5mm cable for your amp.

Hope it helps
Billson


----------



## hemtmaker

I am having a very hard time choosing between idsd micro vs modi/magni? Anyone heard both by any chance? Thx


----------



## maricius

hemtmaker said:


> I am having a very hard time choosing between idsd micro vs modi/magni? Anyone heard both by any chance? Thx


 

 The iDSD has been compared to DACs considerably better than the Modi (e.g. Concero HD, kilo-buck DACs). One user prefers the iDSD's amp section over the Asgard 2. post #853 Maybe you should wait for the Modi 2 and Magni 2 which seem promising. It's still possible that the iFi would be much better unless the new M&M are giant killers.


----------



## maricius

billsonchang007 said:


> Pre-amp's 3D and XBass are designed for speakers. If you are using it wit headphone, it will definitely sound weird
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe if he chose to double amp, the XBass and 3D features utilized would remain as the one designed for headphones. That is if he's open to double amping which I'm personally against.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> Maybe if he chose to double amp, the XBass and 3D features utilized would remain as the one designed for headphones. That is if he's open to double amping which I'm personally against.




If he max out the volume of the micro iDSD, would that still be considered double amping? In the nano iDSD, maxing out its volume would make it exactly like a DAC.


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> If he max out the volume of the micro iDSD, would that still be considered double amping? In the nano iDSD, maxing out its volume would make it exactly like a DAC.


 

 Yeah. The iDSD has a design where best SNR (and other measurable stuff/least distortion/best channel balance) is at 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock. This is only through the headphone out. The preamp achieves channel balance at a really early point of the travel.


----------



## hemtmaker

maricius said:


> The iDSD has been compared to DACs considerably better than the Modi (e.g. Concero HD, kilo-buck DACs). One user prefers the iDSD's amp section over the Asgard 2. post #853 Maybe you should wait for the Modi 2 and Magni 2 which seem promising. It's still possible that the iFi would be much better unless the new M&M are giant killers.



Thanks for the reference. I am indeed referring to the modi2 uber and magni2 uber. Too bad I can't demo them before making the decision.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> Yeah. The iDSD has a design where best SNR (and other measurable stuff/least distortion/best channel balance) is at 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock. This is only through the headphone out. The preamp achieves channel balance at a really early point of the travel.




Not just 2 o'clock. If volume is maxed out in nano iDSD, amp just acts as buffer or something. Not sure with micro iDSD if it's same.


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> Not just 2 o'clock. If volume is maxed out in nano iDSD, amp just acts as buffer or something. Not sure with micro iDSD if it's same.


 

 I'm talking about the Micro iDSD. I apologize for the lack of clarity.


----------



## miziq

New review just posted at Mono & Stereo:
  
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/12/ifi-audio-micro-idsd.html


----------



## senorx12562

miziq said:


> New review just posted at Mono & Stereo:
> 
> http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/12/ifi-audio-micro-idsd.html




The linked review reads as if poorly translated from another language. I barely made it through. I agree with his conclusion though.


----------



## ati832

can anyone please clear this up for me as I am confused as just a headphone amplifier is the  Micro IDSD more powerful than the iCAN the Idsd says in turbo mode it is 4000mw and that is insane and the iCAN is around 450mw is the IDSD really that much more powerful than the iCAN


----------



## jexby

Yes it is.
iCan is pure Class A though.


----------



## hemtmaker

Is the ICAN a worthy addition to the IDSD?


----------



## parkman

Bit-Perfect does give me some noticeable hiss during quiet sections at normal listening levels with my headphones. (Audeze LCD-X) But the LCD-X are very sensitive.. I listen on Eco and with iEMatch on high sensitivity lol.
 But, I still find it to be warmer. But... I do enjoy Minimum Phase.. if it's a quieter song, I use that.
 Either way, it's worth testing out yourself with your own gear.


----------



## BillsonChang007

parkman said:


> Bit-Perfect does give me some noticeable hiss during quiet sections at normal listening levels with my headphones. (Audeze LCD-X) But the LCD-X are very sensitive.. I listen on Eco and with iEMatch on high sensitivity lol.
> But, I still find it to be warmer. But... I do enjoy Minimum Phase.. if it's a quieter song, I use that.
> Either way, it's worth testing out yourself with your own gear.




Indeed! 

For some reason, I set my PC volume so that I can use Eco with no IEMatch switched on. And yes, Minimum Phase is the best setting for most genres, thus, I prefer to stick with it. Polarity always positive


----------



## kissmevn

After 30 hours of running, I can say that the micro idsd is a very marvelous item for my K10.
 It completely blow out my Cypher algorithm -db --> rxmk 3b/Glacier combo out of the water on every tracks.
  
 It makes the K10's sound stage and image like listening to a speaker so that sometimes I forgot that I'm wearing a ciem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Going up for the DSD, the micro can make my ciem reveal so real and natural musical tones, like you're hearing live music.
  
  
 A/B to a Chord Hugo using K10 I can say that the micro sound about 85% of what Hugo could offer. The Hugo sounds a bit more lively and musical but it's triple the price of the micro. So I think you really should get the micro if the Hugo's price is too rough for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Kudos to ifi for creating such a fine equipment. ( But damn you, too. I lost a couple of my productive work days because I can't put it down 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## wisnon

At about $2,200 retail, the Hugo is in fact nearly 5 times as expensive as the $500 iDSD Micro!


----------



## maricius

kissmevn said:


> After 30 hours of running, I can say that the micro idsd is a very marvelous item for my K10.
> It completely blow out my Cypher algorithm -db --> rxmk 3b/Glacier combo out of the water on every tracks.
> 
> It makes the K10's sound stage and image like listening to a speaker so that sometimes I forgot that I'm wearing a ciem.
> ...


 

 Do compare the tonality between the two (Hugo and iDSD). "More lively and musical" can mean a lot of different things to different people.


----------



## ClieOS

To me, Hugo sounds much more rich, musical and warm, to a point that I won't call it neutral. While I don't classify iDSD micro as being 'digital sounding', I'll say Hugo is much more 'analog sounding' in comparison, almost like old tube gear in a way.


----------



## maricius

clieos said:


> To me, Hugo sounds much more rich, musical and warm, to a point that I won't call it neutral. While I don't classify iDSD micro as being 'digital sounding', I'll say Hugo is much more 'analog sounding' in comparison, almost like old tube gear in a way.


 

 I can't say I've heard the Hugo but I get curious to how some find the Hugo more analytical and neutral hence my asking him


----------



## Sound Eq

guys which would u use as a transport with the idsd an iPod 5 or lg g3 that has lollipop android


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> guys which would u use as a transport with the idsd an iPod 5 or lg g3 that has lollipop android




TBH, anything that allows you to do more with the device and you have the can connect to the iDSD will do  I am more of a iOS person myself so I would go for the iTouch 5. It requires CCK (Camera Connection Kit) thought. Same goes to Andriod, you will need USB OTG if I recall correctly


----------



## Sound Eq

billsonchang007 said:


> TBH, anything that allows you to do more with the device and you have the can connect to the iDSD will do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 for me i don't care about apps and stuff i just want the cleanest signal to idsd, and i think the processor of the lg g3 is faster than that of the iPod, so i am just curious to know which is a better transport an lg g3 or iPod touch 5


----------



## Turrican2

ifi audio said:


> Show a little leg...can you guess what "it" is?​ We took our time as “it” needs to look and feel special. Over the last few months, We went through nearly a hundred or so versions.​​ ​ At iFi, we don’t do things by half. Well, we think we have accomplished our objective – and then some.​​ ​ What is it?​​
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/iclub-show-a-little-leg/​


 
 Did anything ever get announced here?  not been on this thread for a few weeks.


----------



## ClieOS

maricius said:


> I can't say I've heard the Hugo but I get curious to how some find the Hugo more analytical and neutral hence my asking him


 
  
 That beats me as well. Awhile after I have compared Hugo with iDSD micro, I asked another person (whom I trust and has listened to Hugo much longer than I did), and he shared my opinion. Not that Hugo isn't a great kit on its own right, just that we both can't associate 'Hugo' and 'neutral' together.


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> for me i don't care about apps and stuff i just want the cleanest signal to idsd, and i think the processor of the lg g3 is faster than that of the iPod, so i am just curious to know which is a better transport an lg g3 or iPod touch 5



I have iPad 3, iPad 2, iPhone 4 and they all uses different processors but sound the same to me whe connected to the iDSD. The iPurifier built inside the iDSD is awesome too!


----------



## Sound Eq

can someone suggest a very very short rca to 3.5mm cable as short as 2 or 3 inches as i wanna to connect my idsd to alo rx mk3
  
 a cable of good quality and good value not more than 30 USD


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> can someone suggest a very very short rca to 3.5mm cable as short as 2 or 3 inches as i wanna to connect my idsd to alo rx mk3
> 
> a cable of good quality and good value not more than 30 USD




I'd like that too. Been looking but can't find any. 

And a really short USB cable too for my nano iDSD. The cables given by iFi are still too long. I think iFi should shorten those and give out cables for use on stacked upon each other gears.


----------



## BillsonChang007

The current RCA cable is actually the perfect length. Some tube amps are senstive, not suitable for stacking sometime as well


----------



## diamondears

There's plenty long or medium length RCA cables out there. But there's absolutely few, if not none at all, short RCA cables for stacking the micro iDSD with a portable amp for example. So very short RCA to 3.5mm would be really nice.


----------



## DJBaila

diamondears said:


> There's plenty long or medium length RCA cables out there. But there's absolutely few, if not none at all, short RCA cables for stacking the micro iDSD with a portable amp for example. So very short RCA to 3.5mm would be really nice.


 
cCasper TFG make me one for my rig, here are some pictures...
 (AK100->FiiO L12S Fiber Optical Cable->iFi Micro iDSD->cCasper TFG 12" silver plated copper RCA to 3.5mm->ALO The International amp)


----------



## PETEREK

I'm glad it suits your needs man!


----------



## Sound Eq

peterek said:


> I'm glad it suits your needs man!


 

 do u offer even shorter cables like 3 inch long


----------



## hemtmaker

djbaila said:


> cCasper TFG make me one for my rig, here are some pictures...
> (AK100->FiiO L12S Fiber Optical Cable->iFi Micro iDSD->cCasper TFG 12" silver plated copper RCA to 3.5mm->ALO The International amp)



nice rig man. But I would never bring it to the airport.......


----------



## tmac7balla

Price and how do I get one?


djbaila said:


> cCasper TFG make me one for my rig, here are some pictures...
> (AK100->FiiO L12S Fiber Optical Cable->iFi Micro iDSD->cCasper TFG 12" silver plated copper RCA to 3.5mm->ALO The International amp)


----------



## DJBaila

hemtmaker said:


> nice rig man. But I would never bring it to the airport.......


 
 Hahaha, I know! that's what my wife said... Looks like a Bomb, Lol.


----------



## DJBaila

tmac7balla said:


> Price and how do I get one?


 
 Contact cCasper TFG: http://www.head-fi.org/u/348881/ccasper-tfg


----------



## hemtmaker

djbaila said:


> Hahaha, I know! that's what my wife said... Looks like a Bomb, Lol.



BY the way, do you find the international headphone out a decant improvement over the iDSD's? (I am assuming you use balance right?)


----------



## maricius

I personally did not find the single-ended quality of the ALO The International to be superior. Different tonality, yes. A good portable amp I've tried that is above the Micro iDSD's amp in SQ alone is the Cypher Labs Duet.


----------



## PETEREK

I think the single ended quality is better than my Aune T1's when used as a Dac out of my Pc.


----------



## DJBaila

hemtmaker said:


> BY the way, do you find the international headphone out a decant improvement over the iDSD's? (I am assuming you use balance right?)



Not using balenced now, but that's the plan, the ALO amp is not superior than iDSD amp (In single ended), just different flavor, give great punch in the low end.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

working on a BIG shootout.  Stay tuned everybody.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I know which one will "win" in terms of overall performance


----------



## Sound Eq

hifiguy528 said:


> working on a BIG shootout.  Stay tuned everybody.


 

 from what is see i can tell u from now the idsd will win hands down, i also own the denon da-10 which will come second place


----------



## Sound Eq

tmac7balla said:


> Price and how do I get one?


 

 i ordered a bunch of cables from cCasper TFG, who was very nice to deal with 
  
 ​my setup is ipod----- ifi idsd---- balanced to alo mk3----- audeze ( balanced )
  
 ​i order a balanced cable for my audeze to use it with my alo mk3 
 i ordered a balanced 2rca to rsa ( alo )
 i also ordered a balanced 2rca to 3.5mm to use with other amps and dacs
  
 ​can't wait to receive them


----------



## tmac7balla

djbaila said:


> Contact cCasper TFG: http://www.head-fi.org/u/348881/ccasper-tfg


 

  


sound eq said:


> i ordered a bunch of cables from cCasper TFG, who was very nice to deal with
> 
> ​my setup is ipod----- ifi idsd---- balanced to alo mk3----- audeze ( balanced )
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks!


----------



## tmac7balla

Does anyone feel as if the IDSD is just a touch bright? I currently have it paired with LCD-3f. I'm looking to add a tube amplifier to mix to add just a tad bit of richness. Anyone have any good suggestions. Budget is around 2k and it does not have to be portable. I want to be able to use to DSD functionality of the IDSD while running it through an amp that adds just a hint of richness.


----------



## john57

Acually I find that my iDSD mciro does add a bit of richness as compared to a more neutral sounding DAC. It seems that the trend these days is for a more darker sound.


----------



## tmac7balla

During DSD playback I love the richness. I would just like only a smidge more lol. Maybe it's just me being picky. Last week I paired the IDSD Micro up to my dealers Unison Research SH and holy smokes while listening to Adele's live performance I was left completely breathless. That sound left a lasting impression on me and I guess that is what has had me on me on this hunt. The only reason I didn't purchase the Unison was because it was only a prototype.


----------



## jexby

hifiguy528 said:


> working on a BIG shootout.  Stay tuned everybody.


 
  
 my prediction:  CEntrance HiFi-M8 comes in at second place.
  
 basis:  that was my finding after having iFi micro iDSD and M8 side by side for a couple weeks. 
  
 disclaimer:  never heard any of the other products.


----------



## spenagio77

HELP!!!!!
I am on the brink of going insane trying to charge my idsd. 
I have the same issue described by others here; after one full charge the battery has run down, flashing red.
So I have switched the unit off and connected via blue usb to my iMac, only to get a flashing led red/blue, which goes out after about 20 seconds, but does not display the consistent blue that indicates charging. 
Even left overnight using an iPhone mains charger, no success.

Please tell me I am going wrong somewhere, desperately don't want to return such a great sounding product!


----------



## kbuzz

It would be great if you noted in your shoutout which dac amps work direct with lighting or lighting usb. The CCK Thing imho is annoying


----------



## jexby

kbuzz said:


> It would be great if you noted in your shoutout which dac amps work direct with lighting or lighting usb. The CCK Thing imho is annoying




While you may feel CCK is annoying it is Apple's only transport to get higher resolution audio off iDevices.
Lightning USB will only deliver 16/44 and 24/44 IIRC.

iFi did a great job selecting their USB port so CCK was a single cable solution for iDevices with no additional adapter bunk.


----------



## senorx12562

tmac7balla said:


> Does anyone feel as if the IDSD is just a touch bright? I currently have it paired with LCD-3f. I'm looking to add a tube amplifier to mix to add just a tad bit of richness. Anyone have any good suggestions. Budget is around 2k and it does not have to be portable. I want to be able to use to DSD functionality of the IDSD while running it through an amp that adds just a hint of richness.


 
 This is ironic. I have a Valhalla 2 the sound of which I really enjoy, but I don't feed it with my iDSD, because I feel that I give up some of the detail and resolution that I love about the iDSD. I prefer the sound of the iDSD by itself.


----------



## kbuzz

Jenny thanks for the info. I'll look into if I. I thought that the if I took lighting to use direct biut forgive me I'm a novice


----------



## semeniub

A few pages back in the thread, MLGrado mentioned that he had tried the new USB Optical cable from Corning (which in theory blocks all EMI coming from the computer) together with his Micro iDSD with good results.
  
 I can confirm this also - works great, and since the cables come in long lengths, it should allow you to stream USB audio quite some distances from your source to the Micro iDSD. As was noted, this cable doesn't transmit power over USB, so the connecting device needs to be self powered (and fortunately the Micro is!).
  
 I've checked this when using a Macbook so far, but will look soon at a connection with an iOS device.


----------



## Dixter

jexby said:


> While you may feel CCK is annoying it is Apple's only transport to get higher resolution audio off iDevices.
> Lightning USB will only deliver 16/44 and 24/44 IIRC.
> 
> iFi did a great job selecting their USB port so CCK was a single cable solution for iDevices with no additional adapter bunk.


 

 just wish you could find the CCK in black color...   or a nice satin silver would be cool too...


----------



## diamondears

dixter said:


> just wish you could find the CCK in black color...   or a nice satin silver would be cool too...




You can convert an Apple CCK into black, silver or gold using a high-grade, non-toxic, indestructible permanent high-quality marker or pentel pen...


----------



## jexby

semeniub said:


> A few pages back in the thread, MLGrado mentioned that he had tried the new USB Optical cable from Corning (which in theory blocks all EMI coming from the computer) together with his Micro iDSD with good results.
> 
> I can confirm this also - works great, and since the cables come in long lengths, it should allow you to stream USB audio quite some distances from your source to the Micro iDSD. As was noted, this cable doesn't transmit power over USB, so the connecting device needs to be self powered (and fortunately the Micro is!).
> 
> I've checked this when using a Macbook so far, but will look soon at a connection with an iOS device.




1. Which exact Corning cable did you use?

2. Which adapter did you end up using to plug the Corning cable into the micro iDSD?
assuming the Corning cable does not have the same female USB on end like the iFi blue cable...


----------



## semeniub

jexby said:


> 1. Which exact Corning cable did you use?
> 
> 2. Which adapter did you end up using to plug the Corning cable into the micro iDSD?
> assuming the Corning cable does not have the same female USB on end like the iFi blue cable...


 

 I used a 10m Corning optical USB3 A to A cable plugged into the computer, and then connected to Micro using the Blue USB cable supplied by iFi.


----------



## Edric Li

jexby said:


> my prediction:  CEntrance HiFi-M8 comes in at second place.
> 
> basis:  that was my finding after having iFi micro iDSD and M8 side by side for a couple weeks.
> 
> disclaimer:  never heard any of the other products.



 


You mean the idsd is the best?

I am deciding between m8 and idsd


----------



## Edric Li

I heard that idsd is a bit more cold, analytical compared to hifi-m8. 
 My music preference somewhat requires a warm sound, but I really appreciate the design and functions of idsd. 
  
 Does anyone have idea on which should I pick? I am now able to get a like-new idsd with $400 here in China. Is that a good deal?


----------



## karistep

Does some one has compared the idsd sound vs theorem 720 cypher lab ?


----------



## wisnon

edric li said:


> I heard that idsd is a bit more cold, analytical compared to hifi-m8.
> My music preference somewhat requires a warm sound, but I really appreciate the design and functions of idsd.
> 
> Does anyone have idea on which should I pick? I am now able to get a like-new idsd with $400 here in China. Is that a good deal?


 
 To me the iDSD iw wram side of neutral. $400? Jump on it!


----------



## Edric Li

wisnon said:


> To me the iDSD iw wram side of neutral. $400? Jump on it!


 
  
 Glad to hear that it is warm!
  
 What do you think of the Xbass feature? Will you use it when listening to rock/edm?


----------



## maricius

edric li said:


> I heard that idsd is a bit more cold, analytical compared to hifi-m8.
> My music preference somewhat requires a warm sound, but I really appreciate the design and functions of idsd.
> 
> Does anyone have idea on which should I pick? I am now able to get a like-new idsd with $400 here in China. Is that a good deal?


 

 That's a seriously great price. 
  
  


karistep said:


> Does some one has compared the idsd sound vs theorem 720 cypher lab ?


 
  
 Lieven at Headfonia.com has in some comment section in the site. I can't remember where but he preferred the Theorem 720. I personally prefer the micro iDSD over the CLAS -dB/Duet rig but I didn't spend too much time with the Theorem 720 as it had annoying hiss with IEMs so I can't help you there.
  
  


edric li said:


> Glad to hear that it is warm!
> 
> What do you think of the Xbass feature? Will you use it when listening to rock/edm?


 

 The Xbass feature is in the sub bass regions so I didn't find it too evident in rock. The addition to mid bass is minimal if noticeable at all but on some Hip-Hop tracks, the boost is very evident. I personally keep it left on when using either my Philips Fidelio L2 and my MrSpeakers Alpha Dog.


----------



## MothAudio

Realize this is an old thread. Looking at the iFi iDSD Micro to pair with iPod Classic 160g coupled with my tube amp. I will check other posts on DAC>AMP.


----------



## 552388

This Thread is really useful. details reviews and discussion. Thank you very much


----------



## MothAudio

jhwalker said:


> Hey, john57 - I was just about to post myself
> 
> Yes, I've found the Micro drives the HE-500 very well, even at the "Normal" setting - certainly, much better than any portable device I've used before.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm using a 45 SET triode amp [2 watt output] driving 92db / three-way / dynamic speakers [Silverline Sonatina]. If memory serves my current dac is set to 1.6v [or 3.6v] output and drives these speakers. One of the selling points on the iFi iDSD Micro is the higher [8v] output.


----------



## technobear

mothaudio said:


> I'm using a 45 SET triode amp [2 watt output] driving 92db / three-way / dynamic speakers [Silverline Sonatina]. If memory serves my current dac is set to 1.6v [or 3.6v] output and drives these speakers. One of the selling points on the iFi iDSD Micro is the higher [8v] output.




If you stick 8V into your SET triode amp, you may get a nasty surprise. The 1.6V of your current DAC is plenty. If you get the iDSD you should use it in ECO mode (2V). Anything more will just overload the input of your valve amp.

The iDSD is not designed to directly drive speakers so don't be tempted.


----------



## john57

Actually there the 8v or the published 10v is the headphone output only at 4,000mW for 16 ohms headphone at the Turbo setting. The line out stays just under 2v max otherwise the line out will overload anything connected to it.


----------



## MothAudio

technobear said:


> If you stick 8V into your SET triode amp, you may get a nasty surprise. The 1.6V of your current DAC is plenty. If you get the iDSD you should use it in ECO mode (2V). Anything more will just overload the input of your valve amp.
> 
> *The iDSD is not designed to directly drive speakers* so don't be tempted.


 
  
 Given my set up what would be a suitable / similar alternative?


----------



## technobear

mothaudio said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > If you stick 8V into your SET triode amp, you may get a nasty surprise. The 1.6V of your current DAC is plenty. If you get the iDSD you should use it in ECO mode (2V). Anything more will just overload the input of your valve amp.
> ...




I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. Do you want to replace your SET?


----------



## MothAudio

technobear said:


> I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. Do you want to replace your SET?


 
  
 No. Love my SET. I want to update my front-end with the iPod + iDSD Micro DAC.


----------



## technobear

mothaudio said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. Do you want to replace your SET?
> ...




Good idea. Just don't use it in Turbo mode. 8V would be too much. Use Eco mode.


----------



## john57

If I understand you correctly. You can use your iPod digital out to the iDSD micro. Then use the line out of the iDSD to the SET amp. That way the iPod can be the source for either of the iDSD for headphone listening or to your SET amp for the speakers.


----------



## ClieOS

john57 said:


> If I understand you correctly. You can use your* iPod *digital out to the iDSD micro. Then use the line out of the iDSD to the SET amp. That way the iPod can be the source for either of the iDSD for headphone listening or to your SET amp for the speakers.


 
  
 More precisely, you can use any iDevices with iOS7 and above that supports USB DAC via camera connection kit. That means newer iPod Touch, iPad and iPhone. Any iDevice that doesn't support iOS7 won't do.


----------



## maricius

clieos said:


> More precisely, you can use any iDevices with iOS7 and above that supports USB DAC via camera connection kit. That means newer iPod Touch, iPad and iPhone. Any iDevice that doesn't support iOS7 won't do.


 

 That is unless he's merely using the iDSD as a preamp in which he can use the 3.5mm input (though I wonder why he wouldn't be using the superb DAC).
  


mothaudio said:


> Realize this is an old thread. Looking at the iFi iDSD Micro to pair with *iPod Classic 160g* coupled with my tube amp. I will check other posts on DAC>AMP.


 
  
 The only way I think he can use the iDSD's DAC section with the iPod Classic is if he gets a true iDevice DAC like the CLAS -dB with coaxial out to use the coaxial input of the micro iDSD.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> That is unless he's merely using the iDSD as a preamp in which he can use the 3.5mm input (though I wonder why he wouldn't be using the superb DAC).
> 
> 
> The only way I think he can use the iDSD's DAC section with the iPod Classic is if he gets a true iDevice DAC like the CLAS -dB with coaxial out to use the coaxial input of the micro iDSD.




The iPod classic can't use a CCK?


----------



## john57

With the iPod classic it may be possible to use the headphone output of the iPod classic into the analog input of the iDSD micro. I have done this with a old Sony Walkman player and took the setup to the Denver RMAF and tried the Alpha Prime headphones and bought it at the spot. Even know that you are using the iPod classic DAC there is still can be a quality advantage using the analog input of the micro. I was surprised how well the Walkman/micro combination worked. It was good enough to showcase the Alpha Prime as an endgame headphone for me. The micro iDSD comes with a 3.5 analog cable, nothing extra to buy in my case.


----------



## diamondears

john57 said:


> With the iPod classic it may be possible to use the headphone output of the iPod classic into the analog input of the iDSD micro. I have done this with a old Sony Walkman player and took the setup to the Denver RMAF and tried the Alpha Prime headphones and bought it at the spot. Even know that you are using the iPod classic DAC there is still can be a quality advantage using the analog input of the micro. I was surprised how well the Walkman/micro combination worked. It was good enough to showcase the Alpha Prime as an endgame headphone for me. The micro iDSD comes with a 3.5 analog cable, nothing extra to buy in my case.




Why not use Apple CCK? iPod classic not upgrade-able to iOS 7?


----------



## ClieOS

maricius said:


> That is unless he's merely using the iDSD as a preamp in which he can use the 3.5mm input (though I wonder why he wouldn't be using the superb DAC).
> 
> *> That will be a big waste for using iDAC micro as mere amp. While it has a decently good amp section, you can get a better pure portable amp for cheaper price.*
> 
> ...


 
  
  


john57 said:


> With the iPod classic it may be possible to use the headphone output of the iPod classic into the analog input of the iDSD micro. I have done this with a old Sony Walkman player and took the setup to the Denver RMAF and tried the Alpha Prime headphones and bought it at the spot. Even know that you are using the iPod classic DAC there is still can be a quality advantage using the analog input of the micro. I was surprised how well the Walkman/micro combination worked. It was good enough to showcase the Alpha Prime as an endgame headphone for me. The micro iDSD comes with a 3.5 analog cable, nothing extra to buy in my case.


 
  
 See the first answer above.
  
 The real value of iDSD micro is in its DAC. Of course the amp section isn't bad either, you are however not getting the best of the device. The amp section alone is on the leaner side of neutral - it compliments the slightly richer, warmer DAC perfectly, but it is not the best $500 you can spend on a pure amp. Unless there is a real need of the 4W power, you can get a $300 portable amp with compatible, or even better sounding amp.
  
  
  


diamondears said:


> Why not use Apple CCK? iPod classic not upgrade-able to iOS 7?


 
  
 Only newer iPod Touch, iPad and iPhone have iOS7.
  
 No iPod Classic of any generation runs on iOS. They have an operating system, but it is not iOS.


----------



## BillsonChang007

To add a few things thought. While the iClassic doesn't work with CCK at all, there are some DAC/amp that will allow you to bypass iClassic's DAC but they often cost a lot because of licensing from Apple [?] such as the Sony PHA-2


----------



## MothAudio

john57 said:


> If I understand you correctly. You can use your iPod digital out to the iDSD micro. Then use the line out of the iDSD to the SET amp. That way the iPod can be the source for either of the iDSD for headphone listening or to your SET amp for the speakers.


 
  
  
*I should have clarified. John is correct. I would use the iDSD micro in direct mode by-passing the pre/amp section. *
  
  
  


john57 said:


> With the iPod classic it may be possible to use the headphone output of the iPod classic into the analog input of the iDSD micro. I have done this with a old Sony Walkman player and took the setup to the Denver RMAF and tried the Alpha Prime headphones and bought it at the spot. Even know that you are using the iPod classic DAC there is still can be a quality advantage using the analog input of the micro. I was surprised how well the Walkman/micro combination worked. It was good enough to showcase the Alpha Prime as an endgame headphone for me. The micro iDSD comes with a 3.5 analog cable, nothing extra to buy in my case.


 
  
 See the first answer above.
  
*The real value of iDSD micro is in its DAC*. Of course the amp section isn't bad either, you are however not getting the best of the device. The amp section alone is on the leaner side of neutral - it compliments the slightly richer, warmer DAC perfectly, but it is not the best $500 you can spend on a pure amp. Unless there is a real need of the 4W power, you can get a $300 portable amp with compatible, or even better sounding amp.
  
  
*This was my thought. *
  
  
  
  


diamondears said:


> Why not use Apple CCK? iPod classic not upgrade-able to iOS 7?


 
  
 Only newer iPod Touch, iPad and iPhone have iOS7.
  
 No iPod Classic of any generation runs on iOS. They have an operating system, but it is not iOS.
  
  
*So, ace the Classic 160g and go with one of the new platforms that run iOS7. *


----------



## Franatic

*"The real value of iDSD micro is in its DAC*. Of course the amp section isn't bad either, you are however not getting the best of the device. The amp section alone is on the leaner side of neutral - it compliments the slightly richer, warmer DAC perfectly, but it is not the best $500 you can spend on a pure amp. Unless there is a real need of the 4W power, you can get a $300 portable amp with compatible, or even better sounding amp."
 ***********************************************
 I have had my idsd micro now for about 6 weeks. I use it strictly as a dac in my home set up. Let me tell you straight, this little device rocks. Very impressive at its price point. I had the nano and this beats it by a mile. I am using an iusb power and gemini cable in line with it that I got for the nano. I don't like that I have to use that generic usb adapter supplied because the apple crowd won out in the design phase on the input connector (USB A MALE!!??) . I upgraded to this: http://www.lindy-usa.com/usb-30-adapter-71277.html It is a well built usb 3.0 a female to b female adapter. It gives a little improvement and is cheap. I have since ordered an audiophile grade usb adapter from Forza Audioworks. Matt will make it for me for $59. I'm expecting it to be good, there is a whole thread praising their work. I am also thinking of getting my T1s recabled there in the future.
  
 Back to my use of the idsd as a dac. The iusb power makes it easy to just leave the idsd on all the time. The power management of the battery works very well. I have tried it both in direct and preamp mode. I have settled on preamp as I like the choice of using the Xbass and 3D settings, which are bypassed in direct mode. The 3D works well with some recordings. It is amazing when listening to orchestral music especially...huge soundstage. The bass effect is nice and not overdone. I usually leave the filter on minimum phase, seems to be the best overall.
 The only negative on the SQ is that it is a little lean in the midrange. I've remedied this in my Woo WA2 Headphone/preamp. So its IDSD > Woo WA2 > Exposure 2010S2 Amp > Monitor Audio GX100 speakers in my main system. It's Beyer T1s when I do headphones from the Woo. Both sound amazing and i won't need to upgrade for awhile..................what's up with the idsd mini? no rush but I'm sure that will tempt me....damn :/
  
 I'll post my impressions of the Forza Audioworks usb adapter when I get it in a couple weeks.
  
 Happy Holidays everybody. Thanks for all the posts. They have been very helpful to me.


----------



## john57

On the IFI mini thread, IFI stated that they are redesigning the analog section. No future details are given.   I figure that we will hear more at late spring.


----------



## sci80899

Sorry if the question had been asked before, didn't manage to go through all 134 pages. 

I currently have the ifi micro stack prior to the iDSD, so the iUSB power -> iDAC -> iTube -> iCan. How much more improvement would buying an iDSD Micro give me (mainly looking at SQ) other than compatibility for additional file formats. Thanks.


----------



## tmac7balla

I've heard the setup you are referring to with my LCD3f and personally for pcm listening I do not think it would be worth it to upgrade. On the other hand for DSD this bad boy holds its own against a lot higher prices products. Also this would be a lot more portable than your stack if you want to listen to music while you walk around the house. The IDSD has plenty of power to drive any cans but it's headphone amp isn't as controlled as I would like in the upper mid range. You really only notice this on certain songs with a strong treble and baseline. The song that comes to mine is "Midas Touch" by "Ellie Goulding" this song has a punchy bass which is complimented with her higher octave voice. When done right I absolutly love this song. I like her voice to sound smooth and full at high volumes with the bass just knocking you off your feet. Instead it is slightly pitchy and light. As mentioned earlier the amp section on this is not all that great. Powerful? Yes but not as controlled.

As far as DSD one of my favorite songs to listen to is called "Shake me now" by "Quilles and Cloud (5.6mhz version). This song through the IDSD is completely awe inspiring. This is a free track available through blue coast records which is well known for quality recordings. Shoot me a PM and I can send you the download link if you can't find it. This is an acoustic song with just a guitar and a beautiful voice. You can actually hear her voice echo off the walls in the room. At the beggening of the song there is a door that closes that caused me to turn and look just to realize there was only a wall next to me. Very well recorded track. For the price I have yet to find anything to touch it when it comes to DSD. I'm currently demoing a B.M.C pure dac which retailes for about $1,700 usd and the ifi is doing well with DSD. Pcm on the other hand is a different story lol.


----------



## tmac7balla

I completely agree 100%. When paired with a good tube amp this thing is amazing. Unison research will be coming out with a new product called the "SH" I was lucky enough to test out the product.. I paired it with the IDSD and I felt like I was being wrapped in a silk velvet sheet. They will be debuting this product at CES in January. It will be around $1700 I beleive. 



franatic said:


> *"The real value of iDSD micro is in its DAC*. Of course the amp section isn't bad either, you are however not getting the best of the device. The amp section alone is on the leaner side of neutral - it compliments the slightly richer, warmer DAC perfectly, but it is not the best $500 you can spend on a pure amp. Unless there is a real need of the 4W power, you can get a $300 portable amp with compatible, or even better sounding amp."
> ***********************************************
> I have had my idsd micro now for about 6 weeks. I use it strictly as a dac in my home set up. Let me tell you straight, this little device rocks. Very impressive at its price point. I had the nano and this beats it by a mile. I am using an iusb power and gemini cable in line with it that I got for the nano. I don't like that I have to use that generic usb adapter supplied because the apple crowd won out in the design phase on the input connector (USB A MALE!!??) . I upgraded to this: http://www.lindy-usa.com/usb-30-adapter-71277.html It is a well built usb 3.0 a female to b female adapter. It gives a little improvement and is cheap. I have since ordered an audiophile grade usb adapter from Forza Audioworks. Matt will make it for me for $59. I'm expecting it to be good, there is a whole thread praising their work. I am also thinking of getting my T1s recabled there in the future.
> 
> ...


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys,
  
 how is the micro idsd compare to schitt bifrost uber for example in dac ?
  
 thanks.
  
 P.s I'm thinking of linking up the micro idsd with valhalla 2. Not sure if that will be a good match.


----------



## kissmevn

franatic said:


> *"The real value of iDSD micro is in its DAC*. Of course the amp section isn't bad either, you are however not getting the best of the device. The amp section alone is on the leaner side of neutral - it compliments the slightly richer, warmer DAC perfectly, but it is not the best $500 you can spend on a pure amp. Unless there is a real need of the 4W power, you can get a $300 portable amp with compatible, or even better sounding amp."
> ***********************************************


 
  
 Do you have any amp recommendation for the micro idsd ?
 I'm using K10, a quite sensitive iem


----------



## christrz

Hi guys, I purchased the iDSD micro recently and my current set up is as follows:
  
 iPhone 5 (IOS 8) > CCK > iDSD > iCan > H/Ps
  
 However, I've found that I'm still able to control the volume via the iPhone. Should this be the case? Does this mean that the volume control on the iPhone is via digital attenuation?
  
 I'm also curious about this as feeding the iDSD/iCan from my macbook (via USB) yields a significantly different sound from my iPhone - however, if the same amp/dac is being used shouldn't there be no difference in sound between my iPhone and macbook?
  
 Thanks for the help!


----------



## tmac7balla

What app are you using to play music from your iphone? I have the iphone 6+ and I can't imagine it being different but when I plug in my IDSD via camera connection kit I lose the ability to control the volume from my iphone. That does seem a little odd. I prefer to use the onkyo audio app since it will allow you to play DSD and hi res flac files if you purchase the HD pack. And different sofware can have a different sound due to processing and default add ons (like eq, crossfeed, etc). Also what sofware are you using to play music on your macbook? Check on your macbook itunes prefences and make sure "sound enhancer" under the "playback" option is unchecked as this can change the sound dramatically.
 Quote:


christrz said:


> Hi guys, I purchased the iDSD micro recently and my current set up is as follows:
> 
> iPhone 5 (IOS 8) > CCK > iDSD > iCan > H/Ps
> 
> ...


----------



## christrz

tmac7balla said:


>


 
  
 On my iPhone, I use the Flacplayer app and Spotify - both of them allow for volume control on the iDevice. 
  
 On my macbook, I usually use Audirvana+, but for the comparison I spoke of, I used the Spotify app. I don't believe I enabled any equalisation on Spotify. Edit: Sound enhancer is also off.
  
 Thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Thats unusual. Whe you use the CCK and connect to the iDSD, the DAC/amp section of your iPhone should be entirely bypassed and you should not be able to control volume via the iphone but only with the iDSD volume knob. Is it the same thing happen when u use only the iDSD with CCK and iPhone without the iCan?


----------



## christrz

billsonchang007 said:


> Thats unusual. Whe you use the CCK and connect to the iDSD, the DAC/amp section of your iPhone should be entirely bypassed and you should not be able to control volume via the iphone but only with the iDSD volume knob. Is it the same thing happen when u use only the iDSD with CCK and iPhone without the iCan?


 
  
 That's exactly what I thought! That is also what happens on my macbook. (edit: volume cannot be controlled with mac controls)
  
 Yep, just tried again and it's the same situation without the iCan. I've set the iPhone to max volume so far, and it sounds amazing but it makes me wonder if I'm actually double amping.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I can only speak for Android, but depending on the Music player app, like with USB Audio Player Pro, which bypass the Audio too, you can change the digital volume within the app and/or only with the volume knob from the iDSD. I prefer to switch off all digital volume control and use only the hardware volume control from the iDSD.


----------



## tmac7balla

Hmmm that is really weird. Maybe try turning your phone on and off? If that doesn't fix it maybe a reset is in order. I'm not expert in this matter but if you can still control the volume on your iphone you are not completely bi passing the amp/dac. Also don't set the volume to max volume on your Iphone as this will lead to clipping of the audio signal.


----------



## ClieOS

Digital volume control happens in the digital domain, and thus it is before the signal is converted to analog. iDSD micro's volume control is pure analog, so it happens after the digital stage. Therefore the two volume control scheme are independent of each other and iDSD micro has no control over what happens in digital domain, as that happens on your iPhone / Androidphone / whatever, before the signal is sent to the iDSD micro.
  
 In other wards: max out your smartphone's volume please, or you'll be wasting all the bit depth.


----------



## christrz

clieos said:


> Digital volume control happens in the digital domain, and thus it is before the signal is converted to analog. iDSD micro's volume control is pure analog, so it happens after the digital stage. Therefore the two volume control scheme are independent of each other and iDSD micro has no control over what happens in digital domain, as that happens on your iPhone / Androidphone / whatever, before the signal is sent to the iDSD micro.
> 
> In other wards: max out your smartphone's volume please, or you'll be wasting all the bit depth.


 
 Does this mean that changing the volume on my iPhone is only attenuating the digital signal and not affecting the analog signal?
  
 If so, that is very comforting to hear!


----------



## ClieOS

christrz said:


> Does this mean that changing the volume on my iPhone is only attenuating the digital signal and not affecting the analog signal?
> 
> If so, that is very comforting to hear!


 
  
 Yes, but why would it be conforming?
  
 Every 6dB of attenuation in digital volume will cost you 1bit of resolution. It might be fine if you are only listen to 24bit music, but if your music collection is mostly 16bit, you might only get 14bit or even 12bit at the end of the day.


----------



## knorris908

kissmevn said:


> Do you have any amp recommendation for the micro idsd ?
> I'm using K10, a quite sensitive iem




I use my SCHIIT audio ASGRD 2 to drive my HD-650s the way I want, but to be honest, the amp in the iDSD Micro is more than enough for any of my other headphones, and especially IEMs/earbuds. I usually have to turn the amp down from TURBO to ECO and then you can lower the power even further with the iem-match settings. UE Super.Fi 3s, VMODA Bass FREQs, Apple earbud and Apple EarPods are feed more power than they would ever need with the IDSD internal amp.... Same with my other actual headphones like the Koss PortaPros, Photive PH-BTX6, and Sennheiser RS-180s.


----------



## christrz

clieos said:


> Yes, but why would it be conforming?
> 
> Every 6dB of attenuation in digital volume will cost you 1bit of resolution. It might be fine if you are only listen to 24bit music, but if your music collection is mostly 16bit, you might only get 14bit or even 12bit at the end of the day.


 
  
 It's comforting because it means I am feeding a digital signal to my iCan and not an analog one. I turn the volume on my iPhone all the way up anyway so I do not digitally attenuate the signal. 
  
 Thanks for the reply ClieOS!


----------



## Bilbow

When my iPhone 5s is near my IFI Micro IDSD I occasionally I hear some kind of cellular network interference which I've heard before through desktop speakers. It happens when the phone is nearby and it does not have to physically connected to the IDSD. I was surprised to hear this and assumed the IDSD would be immune to this kind of interference. Or, is it the wires to my headphones or some other aspect of the setup that is behind this? Any ideas?


----------



## diamondears

bilbow said:


> When my iPhone 5s is near my IFI Micro IDSD I occasionally I hear some kind of cellular network interference which I've heard before through desktop speakers. It happens when the phone is nearby and it does not have to physically connected to the IDSD. I was surprised to hear this and assumed the IDSD would be immune to this kind of interference. Or, is it the wires to my headphones or some other aspect of the setup that is behind this? Any ideas?




Never experienced that. I use iPhone 6 with Onkyo HF Player.


----------



## knorris908

Quote:


diamondears said:


> Never experienced that. I use iPhone 6 with Onkyo HF Player.


 
 I too have never experienced that phenomenon with my iPhone 4S (Work Phone) or iPhone 5 (Personal) using the ONKYO Player app, TIDAL app, or Hibiki app. To be fair, I've never LOOKED/LISTENED for it, so I will try it out when I get done with work.  Out of curiosity, do you notice it during active calls, when messages/emails dump/upload between calls, or does it happen under some other conditions?
  
 Also, what brand/model of headphones are you using when you hear this, so that I can pick the closest match to pay particular attention to them?


----------



## diamondears

knorris908 said:


> Quote:
> I too have never experienced that phenomenon with my iPhone 4S (Work Phone) or iPhone 5 (Personal) using the ONKYO Player app, TIDAL app, or Hibiki app. To be fair, I've never LOOKED/LISTENED for it, so I will try it out when I get done with work.  Out of curiosity, do you notice it during active calls, when messages/emails dump/upload between calls, or does it happen under some other conditions?
> 
> Also, what brand/model of headphones are you using when you hear this, so that I can pick the closest match to pay particular attention to them?




Actually, IIRC, the crowd designed the micro iDSD to be immune from cellphone signal interference.


----------



## knorris908

diamondears said:


> Actually, IIRC, the crowd designed the micro iDSD to be immune from cellphone signal interference.


 

 I agree.  Which is why I'm asking about the headphones used.


----------



## iFi audio

bilbow said:


> When my iPhone 5s is near my IFI Micro IDSD I occasionally I hear some kind of cellular network interference which I've heard before through desktop speakers. It happens when the phone is nearby and it does not have to physically connected to the IDSD. I was surprised to hear this and assumed the IDSD would be immune to this kind of interference. Or, is it the wires to my headphones or some other aspect of the setup that is behind this? Any ideas?


 

 Hi,

  
 This is an occasional question we get from iCAN users - when they are inside a lift with reception effectively blocked out, they get this "2G chatter", no kidding.

  
 The noise is 2G interference - so is reception patchy where you are? As your iPhone is failing to pickup 3G, it is (naturally) defaulting back to 2G.

  
 It commonly happens when the phone is forced to step back to a 2G network and then is forced to boost the RF Output substantially, to maintain signal, or to get a signal back.

  
 The noise heard is a buzz with the main component the 217Hz packet rate.

  
 As long as the phone is on 3G networks there is no such issue.

  
 It is nigh on impossible to make audio electronics completely proof against any such interference. We have tested a number of major brands of electronics and found the same problem present - often to a greater degree than with the iDSD micro.

  
 One point of ingress is the Headphone cable (which makes a great antennae) another the line or USB Input. It may worth experimenting with ferrite clamp'd onto the cables.

  
 Hope this helps.

  
 Thanks.


----------



## john57

My vacuum tubes amps can have that same interference. I do have some tubes that have some extra shield coating on them since some tubes are used in RF applications. WIth my HTPC setup I used wired connections when ever possible to minimize RF pollution in the room. Like wired Ethernet, wired keyboard, wired mouse and move my wireless access point away from my audio equipment using a longer cable connections. Just good sound practice. You never really know how much RF interference you  can have before it starts to distort audio signals without obvious noise. All my RCA connections have ferrite cores on them.


----------



## john57

I wanted to add that phones that use the GSM network tends a have a higher chance of interference like AT&T and T-mobile than CDMA phones like Sprint and Version. Sometimes adding a cell phone booster like in a basement can reduce the interference so that your cell phone is not operating in full power.


----------



## Bilbow

knorris908 said:


> Quote:
> I too have never experienced that phenomenon with my iPhone 4S (Work Phone) or iPhone 5 (Personal) using the ONKYO Player app, TIDAL app, or Hibiki app. To be fair, I've never LOOKED/LISTENED for it, so I will try it out when I get done with work.  Out of curiosity, do you notice it during active calls, when messages/emails dump/upload between calls, or does it happen under some other conditions?
> 
> Also, what brand/model of headphones are you using when you hear this, so that I can pick the closest match to pay particular attention to them?




Headphones used are Sony MDR-1RMK2 and Sony XBA-A2.

In terms of when the noise happens, I haven't run any proper tests but I've certainly heard it just prior to receiving an incoming call and also when the wifi signal becomes patchy and switches over to packet data. The actual noise is not something I notice continuously, however I now find myself listening out for it, which kind of impedes the enjoyment of the music! On the positive side, I can now answer phone calls before the phone starts ringing.


----------



## Dixter

Just wondering if you went into the settings and turned on " Do Not Disturb "   would that keep the noise out ???


----------



## BillsonChang007

I have never encountered such issue but my speakers that is next to my iDSD do have that


----------



## Bilbow

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> This is an occasional question we get from iCAN users - when they are inside a lift with reception effectively blocked out, they get this "2G chatter", no kidding.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the response and suggestions, you guys are great.  I'm based in Kaula Lumpur and there are certainly some patchy signal areas, including where I live at times, so to be fair the phone does switch between Edge/3G/4G quite a lot.  It also happens if I'm out and about using public wifi somewhere like a cafe and the wifi signal is too weak or wifi unreliable (something I find to be quite common in busy cafes in Malaysia), resulting in a switch over back to cellular packet data.  As I drink lots of coffee this does mean I'm hearing the interference on a regular basis.  
  
 Regarding your comment on the 217HZ packet rate, as other readers may be trying to identify if they have this problem, if I go to this online tone generator http://onlinetonegenerator.com, key in 217HZ and select "Sawtooth" mode before hitting "play" the sound generated is indeed very similar to the interference I am referring to.  In my case though, it is not a continuous tone and has something like a 0.5 second to 1 second interval.


----------



## Bilbow

dixter said:


> Just wondering if you went into the settings and turned on " Do Not Disturb "   would that keep the noise out ???


 

 Thanks for the suggestion: given IFI's earlier reply I don't *think* this will help as the phone would still be switching between 2G/3G/4G and receiving the signal for calls.  I also still need to receive calls while I'm out and about so it's not really an option.  Switching to "Airplane Mode" would probably keep the noise out entirely, but that's not an option as I still need the ability to receive calls.


----------



## natra084

Hi how does the iFi iDSD Micro compared to the V200 and the GUSTARD H10.


----------



## kawaivpc1

So, which one is the best? iDSD Micro or Geek Out?


----------



## jexby

natra084 said:


> Hi how does the iFi iDSD Micro compared to the V200 and the GUSTARD H10.




No ideas. Never heard the V200 or Gustard amp.
But the DAC is the best part of iFi micro iDSD, so I suspect dedicated amp could best it,


----------



## jexby

kawaivpc1 said:


> So, which one is the best? iDSD Micro or Geek Out?




I own both,
micro iDSD can do everything the GO450 does and more.
Dual mono DAC, iPureifier and mohr power features are amazing on micro iDSD.
If I had to keep only one- micro iDSD.


----------



## natra084

Do you think the this amplifier can drive the HD650 well.


----------



## knorris908

natra084 said:


> Do you think the this amplifier can drive the HD650 well.


 

 Yes.
  
 Please read any of my recent posts.  It does so wonderfully.


----------



## SonicWarrior

Folks,
  
 Which one would better?
  
 a) Micro iDSD
 b) Micro iDAC + Micro iCAN
  
 Portability is not a big concern for me. All my headphones are < 300ohm. From the product page, it looks like iDAC uses ESS Sabre DAC and iDSD uses Dual burrbrown chipset. Not sure which gives the best SQ. Also, looks like iCAN uses a class A amp whereas iDSD does not. Please help me. For me sound quality is the biggest take rather than features or ability to drive high impedance cans.
  
 Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

sonicwarrior said:


> Folks,
> 
> Which one would better?
> 
> ...


 
  
 iDSD micro has a (much) better sounding DAC than iDAC, but a lesser sounding amp than iCAN. Overall, I'll go with iDSD micro first as the amp section on iDSD micro might not be as good sounding as iCAN (when both are used as standalone amp), it does however compliment the iDSD micro's DAC very well.


----------



## kawaivpc1

jexby said:


> I own both,
> micro iDSD can do everything the GO450 does and more.
> Dual mono DAC, iPureifier and mohr power features are amazing on micro iDSD.
> If I had to keep only one- micro iDSD.


 

 So, how does it sound compared to GO?
 Is it as detailed as GO? how's its sound stage? is it wide enough? 
 I'm very impressed with GO now. I wonder if micro iDSD can make an improvement.


----------



## kawaivpc1

hifiguy528 said:


> working on a BIG shootout.  Stay tuned everybody.


 
 This is very exciting!!
 So, which one sounds the best among these six units?
 I'm interested in Sony PHA-3, iDSD, X1, and Centrance!


----------



## jexby

kawaivpc1 said:


> So, how does it sound compared to GO?
> Is it as detailed as GO? how's its sound stage? is it wide enough?
> I'm very impressed with GO now. I wonder if micro iDSD can make an improvement.


 
  
 ok yes, to my IEMs, HE-560 and NAD HP50:
 micro iDSD is as detailed as GO450, but sounds more musical actually.
 soundstage is just as wide.  if you want a bit wider- micro iDSD has the 3D switch which sounds WAY better than simple crossfeed.
 micro iDSD cleans up the USB jitter as well, so it can sound smoother.
  
 obviously these are some the reasons why if I "had to keep one unit", it would be the iFi micro iDSD.
 others:  battery, RCA outputs, XBass switch, 3 filters, volume control in analog domain, etc.


----------



## earfonia

hifiguy528 said:


> working on a BIG shootout.  Stay tuned everybody.


 
  
 Cool! Waiting for the BIG shootout!
  
  


tmac7balla said:


> Does anyone feel as if the IDSD is just a touch bright? I currently have it paired with LCD-3f. I'm looking to add a tube amplifier to mix to add just a tad bit of richness. Anyone have any good suggestions. Budget is around 2k and it does not have to be portable. I want to be able to use to DSD functionality of the IDSD while running it through an amp that adds just a hint of richness.


 
  
 Yes, the headphone amp is rather bright. But the DAC output is neutral, not bright, and I consider the DAC output quality is better than the quality of the headphone amp. Now I use it more as a DAC, and connect it to headphone amp.


----------



## SonicWarrior

clieos said:


> iDSD micro has a (much) better sounding DAC than iDAC, but a lesser sounding amp than iCAN. Overall, I'll go with iDSD micro first as the amp section on iDSD micro might not be as good sounding as iCAN (when both are used as standalone amp), it does however compliment the iDSD micro's DAC very well.


 

 Thank You, ClieOS


----------



## kawaivpc1

jexby said:


> ok yes, to my IEMs, HE-560 and NAD HP50:
> micro iDSD is as detailed as GO450, but sounds more musical actually.
> soundstage is just as wide.  if you want a bit wider- micro iDSD has the 3D switch which sounds WAY better than simple crossfeed.
> micro iDSD cleans up the USB jitter as well, so it can sound smoother.
> ...


 

 I see...
 Have you heard other DACs such as AK240, Hugo, Sony PHA-3, HM901?
 Is there other unit you would like to compare to iDSD?
 I'm very interested in iDSD now.


----------



## jexby

kawaivpc1 said:


> I see...
> Have you heard other DACs such as AK240, Hugo, Sony PHA-3, HM901?
> Is there other unit you would like to compare to iDSD?
> I'm very interested in iDSD now.


 
  
 apologies, as I have not personally heard any of those other DACs you mention.
  
 it might be best if you could find a dealer of iFi Audio product that allows you a trial period so your ears can decide best.


----------



## christrz

sonicwarrior said:


> Folks,
> 
> Which one would better?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I find the iDSD's amp to be a little bright. I'm running the iDSD to the iCan and that helps to balance things. Sounds really really good now.


----------



## knorris908

christrz said:


> I find the iDSD's amp to be a little bright. I'm running the iDSD to the iCan and that helps to balance things. Sounds really really good now.


 

 I guess that makes sense.  My HD-650's sound perfect with the iDSD Micro's amp.  They're a bit dark supposedly, so I guess that they just balance each other out.  Same with my VMODA Bass Freqs and Koss PortaPros.  The Photive PH-BTX6 XBASS headphones are basshead gear, so no wonder there either.  But oddly-enough, I don't feel the iDSD amp is too bright when I use my UE Super.Fi 3s either....


----------



## maricius

I just demoed my Alpha Dogs being fed by a ALO Audio Pan Am (with upgraded tubes though I'm not sure which) with the iDSD as the DAC. I'm probably going back to get the PanAm when I get the cash. Amazing.


----------



## earfonia

christrz said:


> I find the iDSD's amp to be a little bright. I'm running the iDSD to the iCan and that helps to balance things. Sounds really really good now.


 
  
 Agree, iDSD amp is not a little bright, but bright. Well it is good with dark headphones, but with bright ones, quite nasty. I also like the micro iCan, very good sounding amp, very good match for micro iDSD.
 I hope there is a way to tune down the brightness of micro iDSD headphone amp, cause I really want to make it one multipurpose unit when travelling, but the headphone amp is rather too bright for me.
 I found it is slightly less bright on eco Power mode, and getting brighter when switch up to Normal and Turbo.


----------



## BillsonChang007

The Micro iDSD has plenty of juice for all headphones although for most headphones, you probably don't need anything more than Normal mode. 
  
 As for synergy, the Micro iDSD, as a DAC/amp, it is better off paired with headphones that is slightly dark as mentioned and warm. I find the SRH1540 to be a very excellent synergy with the Micro iDSD as well. Just have to switch off the XBass when pairing with the SRH1540 unless you want big sub bass but slightly out of place.


----------



## earfonia

billsonchang007 said:


> The Micro iDSD has plenty of juice for all headphones although for most headphones, you probably don't need anything more than Normal mode.
> 
> As for synergy, the Micro iDSD, as a DAC/amp, it is better off paired with headphones that is slightly dark as mentioned and warm. I find the SRH1540 to be a very excellent synergy with the Micro iDSD as well. Just have to switch off the XBass when pairing with the SRH1540 unless you want big sub bass but slightly out of place.


 
  
 Agree. My SRH1540 and Fidelio X1 sound great direct from micro iDSD headphone amp.
 For brighter headphones, it is nicer to use micro iDSD with warmer amplifier, like the AT-HA22TUBE.


----------



## natra084

Isn't it better to just buy them nano instead of the micro if the Micro is bright sounding and Just use the nano as a DAC buy an amp instead.


----------



## natra084

How does this amplifier sound AT-HA22TUBE I can't find reviews on it.


----------



## BillsonChang007

natra084 said:


> Isn't it better to just buy them nano instead of the micro if the Micro is bright sounding and Just use the nano as a DAC buy an amp instead.


 
 The Micro iDSD has better DAC and amp section in comparison to the Nano iDSD, The Micro iDSD also output more power, and able to play up to DSD 512 vs the Nano iDSD only DSD 256.


----------



## natra084

sorry I forgot to write if the micro is bright sounding isn't it better to have then the nano as a DAC and for the rest of the money buy yourself a good amplifier.


----------



## earfonia

natra084 said:


> Isn't it better to just buy them nano instead of the micro if the Micro is bright sounding and Just use the nano as a DAC buy an amp instead.


 
  
 ifi micro iDSD is still overall better than the nano, both the DAC and the Amp. The bright amp is good with dark or warm headphones. Unless you plan to pair it with something like Beyerdynamic DT880, than you better use a separate warmer amp. For example with Fidelio X1, I don't need other gear, micro iDSD sounds great with X1. So depend on your setup.
  
  


natra084 said:


> How does this amplifier sound AT-HA22TUBE I can't find reviews on it.


 
  
 Generally I prefer solid state, but I do like HA22TUBE. It is a warm amp with strong bass. But not like other tube amp, HA22TUBE has good detail and dynamic, and quite lively, not mellow sounding.  
 Will review it when have time.  Currently reviewing other gears.


----------



## BillsonChang007

natra084 said:


> sorry I forgot to write if the micro is bright sounding isn't it better to have then the nano as a DAC and for the rest of the money buy yourself a good amplifier.


 
 Well, bright isnt a bad thing. It is just a sound signature. Also, bare in mind, the DAC itself are not bright, just the amplifier standalone being bright. The DAC is very neutral, natural, musical. 
  
 + see below  


earfonia said:


> ifi micro iDSD is still overall better than the nano, both the DAC and the Amp. The bright amp is good with dark or warm headphones. Unless you plan to pair it with something like Beyerdynamic DT880, than you better use a separate warmer amp. For example with Fidelio X1, I don't need other gear, micro iDSD sounds great with X1. So depend on your setup.


----------



## diamondears

Micro iDSD, bright? C'mon. Who's saying, the competitors' dealers, right? Using the Standard Filter, right? And using a bright recording, correct?


----------



## Loquah

Good point. Can anyone provide a comparison of something like iDSD is brighter than X (something common like C5D, FiiO X5, or ODAC would be very helpful)?


----------



## ClieOS

We are talking about is_ just the amp section alone_ - and I concur that it is bright, or more correctly, I think it is lean, lacking a good sense of texture on the mid to low range. That leanness then gives an impression of brightness as treble detail / energy is relatively more pronounced. However, it kind of compensated by the slight rich tone of the DAC section, and ends up fairly well balanced as a whole unit.


----------



## diamondears

earfonia said:


> Agree, iDSD amp is not a little bright, but bright. Well it is good with dark headphones, but with bright ones, quite nasty. I also like the micro iCan, very good sounding amp, very good match for micro iDSD.
> I hope there is a way to tune down the brightness of micro iDSD headphone amp, cause I really want to make it one multipurpose unit when travelling, but the headphone amp is rather too bright for me.
> I found it is slightly less bright on eco Power mode, and getting brighter when switch up to Normal and Turbo.




Bright using what headphones? HD800 and T1? Using Standard Filter? And coming from tube amps?


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> We are talking about is _just the amp section alone_ - and I concur that it is bright, or more correctly, I think it is lean, lacking a good sense of texture on the mid to low range. That leanness then gives an impression of brightness as treble detail / energy is relatively more pronounced. However, it kind of compensated by the slight rich tone of the DAC section, and ends up fairly well balanced as a whole unit.



I know. But even with the micro iDSD amp used as HP amp, I don't find it bright at all. Detailed, but not bright because it has full bodied bass, deep bass as a matter of fact. 

Problem I see is the headphones being used (by those saying the micro iDSD's amp is bright) doesn't have the ability to dig in to deeper bass, which is what both the nano and micro dies best compared to other DAC and amp. In fact that's their house sound, full bodied deep bass with smooth detailed mids and treble. So what happens when the HP is incapable of digging the deep full bodied bass, I ask?

Standard Filter is bright though.


----------



## BillsonChang007

clieos said:


> We are talking about is _just the amp section alone_ - and I concur that it is bright, or more correctly, I think it is lean, lacking a good sense of texture on the mid to low range. That leanness then gives an impression of brightness as treble detail / energy is relatively more pronounced. However, it kind of compensated by the slight rich tone of the DAC section, and ends up fairly well balanced as a whole unit.



I can't agree more with this! 



diamondears said:


> Bright using what headphones? HD800 and T1? Using Standard Filter? And coming from tube amps?




Before I listen to the Micro iDSD's amp section, I come from E09K and have listened to a few iBasso amps and Beyerdynamic A1 (which is pretty neutral to a 3 year old memory).


----------



## earfonia

diamondears said:


> Bright using what headphones? HD800 and T1? Using Standard Filter? And coming from tube amps?


 
  
 That's right! My HD800, T1, Hifiman HE5-LE, ATH-MSR7, and ATH-W1000Z (loan) that I'm currently reviewing. I'm talking about the headphone section alone of the ifi micro iDSD, not the DAC low pass filter. When using the micro DAC section, I found the going from bit perfect to standard, the brightness is slightly reduced. So when I feel a bit too bright, I set to minimum phase or standard.
 As BillsonChang said, bright is just another sound signature, not a negative attribute. The brightness of the headphone amp section is actually good for some warmer headphones such as my SRH1540, SRH840, and Fidelio X1.
 Is all about mix and match, there is no one super DAC+Amp that will be the end game for all headphones. The key is to get better matching and pairing of our gears.


----------



## rickyleelee

+1. There are always weird adjectives but iFi gear is pretty neutrally-voiced in my book. Not sure how the OP's setup gets it to sound bright. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## diamondears

earfonia said:


> That's right! My HD800, T1, Hifiman HE5-LE, ATH-MSR7, and ATH-W1000Z (loan) that I'm currently reviewing. I'm talking about the headphone section alone of the ifi micro iDSD, not the DAC low pass filter. When using the micro DAC section, I found the going from bit perfect to standard, the brightness is slightly reduced. So when I feel a bit too bright, I set to minimum phase or standard.
> As BillsonChang said, bright is just another sound signature, not a negative attribute. The brightness of the headphone amp section is actually good for some warmer headphones such as my SRH1540, SRH840, and Fidelio X1.
> Is all about mix and match, there is no one super DAC+Amp that will be the end game for all headphones. The key is to get better matching and pairing of our gears.



As I said, those 1st three HPs are bright (haven't heard your other HPs), and lacks sub-bass. With the iDSD having a DETAILED mids and treble, AND a deep full-bodied sub-bass, your HPs will MISS the full-bodied sub-bass. Result? Bright. 

I've listened to micro iDSD and nano iDSD with LCD-2F, LCD-2 Rev. 2 (2012) and I never found them bright even with the LCD-2F. 

I've also used both nano and micro on my car with the volume maxed out using their amp HP outs and they certainly are not bright, with the nano even sounding tiny bit warm. With the X-Bass on on the micro, their sound tilt (bit warm) sound exactly the same, without losing details. My car speakers certainly don't lack in the bass to sub-bass region, so the iDSD's complete sound spectrum comes out. 

My point is just that the test HP should have full frequency spectrum capability. Otherwise were missing the iFi/AMR house sound.


----------



## diamondears

I came to discover Head-Fi when I was merely looking for a way to get the best sound into my car. My car has a 3.5mm aux input and I was dissatisfied with just plugging my iPhone. Various portables after, I found the iFi nano iDSD and was astonished by how it sound on my car, particularly the detailed mids/treble and full-bodied sub-bass that I've been claiming as the iFi house sound. 

So when I use a HP without sub-bass capability, I notice immediately. That kind of HP will definitely sound bright, sometimes even tinny. My car sort of became my "reference".

I therefore suggest we have our own "reference" when judging a gear. The great reviewers always does. Otherwise it's unfair to the gear being commented on IMHO.


----------



## natra084

Hi guys I really need some help I bought Violectric V200 a couple of weeks ago and I have the Sennheiser HD650s and for me that combination what's too warm so I send that the V200 back.
 All I really don't know what to buy I've looked at the GUSTARD H10 and I looked at these iFi products. For the most part I listen to YouTube videos movies sometimes MP3s what should I buy do I really need the micro with its features Will it be able to do any difference when I watch YouTube videos or movies or is that nano sufficient. Or should I just buy the nano and just use it as a DAC or Will the micro be able to power my HD650 well.
 When I returned the V200 then I bought amp so I can use for now I bought in bravo ocean and this amplifier is a tube amplifier but it doesn't sound as a tube amplifier is very detailed smooth but the base is very loose it isn't at all warm sounding in my opinion.
 So which amplifier that you guys think should fit me well.


----------



## diamondears

natra084 said:


> Hi guys I really need some help I bought Violectric V200 a couple of weeks ago and I have the Sennheiser HD650s and for me that combination what's too warm so I send that the V200 back.
> All I really don't know what to buy I've looked at the GUSTARD H10 and I looked at these iFi products. For the most part I listen to YouTube videos movies sometimes MP3s what should I buy do I really need the micro with its features Will it be able to do any difference when I watch YouTube videos or movies or is that nano sufficient. Or should I just buy the nano and just use it as a DAC or Will the micro be able to power my HD650 well.
> When I returned the V200 then I bought amp so I can use for now I bought in bravo ocean and this amplifier is a tube amplifier but it doesn't sound as a tube amplifier is very detailed smooth but the base is very loose it isn't at all warm sounding in my opinion.
> So which amplifier that you guys think should fit me well.




You gotta get the HD650's sensitivity rating. Together with its 300 ohms impedance rating, you can compute the power and current needed to drive them to your max dB upper limit for dynamic peaks (most says 110dB). There is a calculator somewhere.

Edit: http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/sennheiser/hd-650/with/ifi-audio/nano-idsd Based on this, iFi nano iDSD "should have" enough power.


----------



## jexby

clieos said:


> We are talking about is _just the amp section alone_ - and I concur that it is bright, or more correctly, I think it is lean, lacking a good sense of texture on the mid to low range. That leanness then gives an impression of brightness as treble detail / energy is relatively more pronounced. However, it kind of compensated by the slight rich tone of the DAC section, and ends up fairly well balanced as a whole unit.




That is the best summarized description of the 2 internal components to date.
Couldn't agree more.


----------



## maricius

clieos said:


> We are talking about is_ just the amp section alone_ - and I concur that it is bright, *or more correctly, I think it is lean, lacking a good sense of texture on the mid to low range. That leanness then gives an impression of brightness as treble detail / energy is relatively more pronounced.* However, it kind of compensated by the slight rich tone of the DAC section, and ends up fairly well balanced as a whole unit.


 
  
 +1


----------



## maricius

natra084 said:


> Hi guys I really need some help I bought Violectric V200 a couple of weeks ago and I have the Sennheiser HD650s and for me that combination what's too warm so I send that the V200 back.
> All I really don't know what to buy I've looked at the GUSTARD H10 and I looked at these iFi products. For the most part I listen to YouTube videos movies sometimes MP3s what should I buy do I really need the micro with its features Will it be able to do any difference when I watch YouTube videos or movies or is that nano sufficient. Or should I just buy the nano and just use it as a DAC or Will the micro be able to power my HD650 well.
> When I returned the V200 then I bought amp so I can use for now I bought in bravo ocean and this amplifier is a tube amplifier but it doesn't sound as a tube amplifier is very detailed smooth but the base is very loose it isn't at all warm sounding in my opinion.
> So which amplifier that you guys think should fit me well.


 

 The Micro will pair very well with the HD650. I actually find the synergy to be fantastic but I bet feeding the HD650 with the micro iDSD + some OTL tube amp would be even better. The most commonly recommended budget tube amp I see being recommended for the HD650 is the Bottlehead Crack. I haven't heard it yet though.


----------



## earfonia

diamondears said:


> So when I use a HP without sub-bass capability, I notice immediately. That kind of HP will definitely sound bright, sometimes even tinny. My car sort of became my "reference".
> 
> I therefore suggest we have our own "reference" when judging a gear. The great reviewers always does. Otherwise it's unfair to the gear being commented on IMHO.


 
  
 Didn't I mention that I also use SRH1540 with ifi micro iDSD? I think you know that SRH1540 has a very capable bass and sub bass. So I have tested micro iDSD with many headphones, not only the bright ones. From there I still conclude that headphone amp section part of ifi micro iDSD is leaning towards the bright side.  And I simply don't understand why some people get offended when we say the headphone section of ifi micro iDSD is bright.  What's wrong with that?  Some gears are bright, some gears are warm, they all have color and that what makes them distinctive from one another. There is nothing wrong with having their own sound signature right?  Do we expect all good gears to sound natural and colorless? That's, IMHO, is very boring.
  
 My reference gears, as I always mentioned in my reviews, are Mytek Stereo192-DSD which also has bright headphone amp section, Yulong DA8 more natural sounding headphone amp section, Violectric HPA V200 natural but rather congested, and Yulong A28 which is rather dark and warm. Other smaller DACs and DAPs for on-the-go setup. And I use ifi Micro iDSD as one of my reference DAC on-the-go. I really like it.  I don't claim my reference gears to be perfect. There is no such thing as perfect gears. But I know all their characters, and how to mix and match their characters to get what I want. That's the fun part.
  
 FYI, currently I'm reviewing a behemoth from Audio-Technica, pre-production unit of AT-HA5050H. When I'm comparing the DAC section of ifi micro iDSD and the DAC section of the 4 figures behemoth, I'm quite surprised how close is their sound characteristic. The quality of the DAC section of ifi micro iDSD is actually up there, pretty close with some 4 figures equipment.
  

  
  
  


natra084 said:


> Hi guys I really need some help I bought Violectric V200 a couple of weeks ago and I have the Sennheiser HD650s and for me that combination what's too warm so I send that the V200 back.
> All I really don't know what to buy I've looked at the GUSTARD H10 and I looked at these iFi products. For the most part I listen to YouTube videos movies sometimes MP3s what should I buy do I really need the micro with its features Will it be able to do any difference when I watch YouTube videos or movies or is that nano sufficient. Or should I just buy the nano and just use it as a DAC or Will the micro be able to power my HD650 well.
> When I returned the V200 then I bought amp so I can use for now I bought in bravo ocean and this amplifier is a tube amplifier but it doesn't sound as a tube amplifier is very detailed smooth but the base is very loose it isn't at all warm sounding in my opinion.
> So which amplifier that you guys think should fit me well.


 
  
 The last time I listen to HD650 was last year.  From memory, I think the bright and transparent character of the iDSD amplifier, and the natural sounding of the DAC section will match the sound characteristic of HD650 quite well.


----------



## kawaivpc1

One more question to you guys:
 If I stack an iCan Micro to iDSD Micro, how much sound quality can it improve?
 Does it make its sound stage bigger and give more clarity and detail?


----------



## jexby

kawaivpc1 said:


> One more question to you guys:
> If I stack an iCan Micro to iDSD Micro, how much sound quality can it improve?
> Does it make its sound stage bigger and give more clarity and detail?




Great question, and look forward to iCAN owner answers.

In the 5min I heard iTube and iCan with micro it was great sounding in soundstage with a bit of that tube smoothness.
Alas I don't want a stack of 3 components at this time however.


----------



## DougD

natra084 said:


> Hi guys I really need some help I bought Violectric V200 a couple of weeks ago and I have the Sennheiser HD650s and for me that combination what's too warm so I send that the V200 back.
> All I really don't know what to buy I've looked at the GUSTARD H10 and I looked at these iFi products. For the most part I listen to YouTube videos movies sometimes MP3s what should I buy do I really need the micro with its features Will it be able to do any difference when I watch YouTube videos or movies or is that nano sufficient. Or should I just buy the nano and just use it as a DAC or Will the micro be able to power my HD650 well.
> When I returned the V200 then I bought amp so I can use for now I bought in bravo ocean and this amplifier is a tube amplifier but it doesn't sound as a tube amplifier is very detailed smooth but the base is very loose it isn't at all warm sounding in my opinion.
> So which amplifier that you guys think should fit me well.


 
  
 I don't know what the sound quality of YouTube videos is these days, but typical MP3s are the musical equivalent of the warm, steamy stuff that drops out of the back end of cows when they're grazing. 
  
 If you're going to invest in high quality audio equipment, you need to be using high quality source material to use in your evaluations. Read around here, there's lots of recordings that people recommend for reference listening and excellent sound quality, you should be able to find some choices that match your musical preferences.
  
 But if I had five seconds to make a choice, a lossless version of Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" would be my first pick. And if you can play an SACD, I highly recommend the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs version, UDSACD-2099, it's wonderful on good equipment.


----------



## natra084

So the micro and the nano won't make any difference if I am just going to use it for YouTube movies mp3,


----------



## diamondears

earfonia said:


> Didn't I mention that I also use SRH1540 with ifi micro iDSD? I think you know that SRH1540 has a very capable bass and sub bass. So I have tested micro iDSD with many headphones, not only the bright ones. From there I still conclude that headphone amp section part of ifi micro iDSD is leaning towards the bright side.  And I simply don't understand why some people get offended when we say the headphone section of ifi micro iDSD is bright.  What's wrong with that?  Some gears are bright, some gears are warm, they all have color and that what makes them distinctive from one another. There is nothing wrong with having their own sound signature right?  Do we expect all good gears to sound natural and colorless? That's, IMHO, is very boring.
> 
> My reference gears, as I always mentioned in my reviews, are Mytek Stereo192-DSD which also has bright headphone amp section, Yulong DA8 more natural sounding headphone amp section, Violectric HPA V200 natural but rather congested, and Yulong A28 which is rather dark and warm. Other smaller DACs and DAPs for on-the-go setup. And I use ifi Micro iDSD as one of my reference DAC on-the-go. I really like it.  I don't claim my reference gears to be perfect. There is no such thing as perfect gears. But I know all their characters, and how to mix and match their characters to get what I want. That's the fun part.
> 
> ...




Not offended, just disagreeing. 

As I said, haven't heard your other HP/IEM. But checking the FR graph, the SR1540 looks bright and uneven on the bass.

And what's the recording you tested the iDSD on? They might be bright and bass lacking too. 

Besides, I don't understand why people would classify an amp as bright without mentioning the bass boost. Do you still hear it as bright with the sub-bass boost of the micro iDSD? At least mention it as it was put there precisely to address different ears and what's lacking on some gears. And whether the 3D option was unknowingly turned on, which will make the sound brighter. 

Also, there are 3 digital filter options, so what filter used should also be mentioned. And a proper description of how they sound with each filter. Otherwise, it looks like this aspect has again been taken for granted. 

Use of Standard Filter will sound bright, digitally. If an external amp like tube amp or warm amp like V200 is used, the amp would sound great and neutral or less bright, though the sound out of the iDSD dac is actually bright...

Or the more detail is just mistaken for brightness. Recording is important. A modern recording with loudness war would sound too detailed=bright.


----------



## christrz

kawaivpc1 said:


> One more question to you guys:
> If I stack an iCan Micro to iDSD Micro, how much sound quality can it improve?
> Does it make its sound stage bigger and give more clarity and detail?


 
  
 I find that the iDSD alone is already very good sounding. Soundstage wise, I don't notice a significant difference to the iDSD's already amazing soundstage and positioning.
  
 The iCan helps to balance the spectrum of sound so it becomes more neutral/slightly warm. In that sense, and I believe this is also in line with what ClieOs said, the mids and lows get brought out more, are given a fuller body, and sound more textured. This is especially so on quick, busy recordings where the mids are more laidback. With the iCan, the mids are brought back out and become more discernable, textured and detailed. In that sense, yes there is more perceived detail with the iCan.
  
 As for the lows, the iCan's xBass feature increases the sub-bass more noticeably than that of the iDSD. This may be a good or bad thing for you - but it's good in my books!
  
 The difference will definitely not be as spectacular as adding the iDSD to your rig, but I find that the overall improvement to the balance of the sound makes the iCan a keeper.
  
 One note of caution though: If you are using IEMs, especially sensitive ones, you will be better of with the iDSD alone. The iDSD line out signal via RCA is so strong that on the lowest gain settings of the iCan, it still gets unbearably loud with the volume knob turned down to 9 o'clock. And that may present a problem wrt channel imbalance/accurate volume control. I found this to be so on my DITA Answer (non-truth) edition with a 102db sensitivity.


----------



## christrz

>


 

 Just to weigh in on the brightness issue - I feel that the perception of brightness is contributed to not only by the amount of bass, but also how the mids are presented. If the mids are not as full bodied, the treble becomes more pronounced and the overall sound becomes very thin (which to me is bright). 
  
 I suppose there is no real measure of what bright really constitutes because it is a subjective term based on personal standards. But for the recordings I listen to - which are both bright and warm - and based on gear I have heard, I believe the iDSD is on the slightly brighter side of things.


----------



## earfonia

diamondears said:


> Not offended, just disagreeing.
> 
> As I said, haven't heard your other HP/IEM. But checking the FR graph, the SR1540 looks bright and uneven on the bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know what you're talking about. I do recording, and mix my own recording. As for what recordings I normally use, they are all at the end of my reviews (on my signature).
 Anyway, judging a headphone by the FR is not a fair judgement.
 As I have no interest to continue this discussion, I would say we just have to agree to disagree


----------



## natra084

dougd said:


> I don't know what the sound quality of YouTube videos is these days, but typical MP3s are the musical equivalent of the warm, steamy stuff that drops out of the back end of cows when they're grazing.
> 
> If you're going to invest in high quality audio equipment, you need to be using high quality source material to use in your evaluations. Read around here, there's lots of recordings that people recommend for reference listening and excellent sound quality, you should be able to find some choices that match your musical preferences.
> 
> But if I had five seconds to make a choice, a lossless version of Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" would be my first pick. And if you can play an SACD, I highly recommend the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs version, UDSACD-2099, it's wonderful on good equipment.


 
 So the micro and the nano won't make any difference if I am just going to use it for YouTube movies mp3,


----------



## DougD

natra084 said:


> So the micro and the nano won't make any difference if I am just going to use it for YouTube movies mp3,


 
  
 Well, I was primarily thinking you might not have given the Violectric V200 (or the rest of your gear) a fair chance to really show what it can do. What you hear would be limited to the worst part of the chain, and that'd almost certainly be MP3s if that's what you were using for tunes while doing your critical evaluations and bang-for-the-buck considerations.


----------



## natra084

dougd said:


> Well, I was primarily thinking you might not have given the Violectric V200 (or the rest of your gear) a fair chance to really show what it can do. What you hear would be limited to the worst part of the chain, and that'd almost certainly be MP3s if that's what you were using for tunes while doing your critical evaluations and bang-for-the-buck considerations.


 
 For me the Violectric V200 was too warm sounding with the HD650,


----------



## kapanak

Where can I possibly buy this iFi Micro iDSD in Canada? That is, through a reputable dealer, instead of putting an order over phone with some guy...?


----------



## dcginc

What's the best app for iPhone to output DSD to the iFi DSD Micro? Is it Onkyo's HD player?


----------



## jexby

dcginc said:


> What's the best app for iPhone to output DSD to the iFi DSD Micro? Is it Onkyo's HD player?


 
  
 indeed that's what I use with iPhone/iPad.
 settings: DoP.


----------



## jimmypowder

Question from a newbie : can I use headphones in direct or preamp mode ? Won't in direct mode you won't being able to control volume using the knob on the idsd? 
Will 3d and bass be able to be used in direct mode? 

I'm a little confused .


----------



## maricius

jimmypowder said:


> Question from a newbie : can I use headphones in direct or preamp mode ? Won't in direct mode you won't being able to control volume using the knob on the idsd?
> Will 3d and bass be able to be used in direct mode?
> 
> I'm a little confused .


 

 Direct and Preamp only affect the RCA outs on the back. The headphone out on the front functions as is either way. 3D and XBass can be used always with the headphone out.


----------



## EVOLVIST

maricius said:


> Direct and Preamp only affect the RCA outs on the back. The headphone out on the front functions as is either way. 3D and XBass can be used always with the headphone out.




Right, so you're saying that if you're using the preamp out, you can still engage the 3D and X-Bass circuits and send that signal to a power amp, yes? That would make sense.

Also, does anyone know if the RCA cables that come with it are EMI/RFI shielded?


----------



## jimmypowder

I only listened to this dac/amp for 10 minutes. Good God!!!! This is what 500 bucks !!?????
  
 I have listened to alot of dacs and this is the best budget audiophile deal Ive ever heard .


----------



## Triodemode

jimmypowder said:


> I only listened to this dac/amp for 10 minutes. Good God!!!! This is what 500 bucks !!?????
> 
> I have listened to alot of dacs and this is the best budget audiophile deal Ive ever heard .


 

 I completely agree Jimmy.  IMO for the money, nothing touches the iDSD micro in both sound quality and versatility/portability. The competition is fierce in this quickly evolving market though, and I expect to see a lot of worthy contenders in the near future.
  
 I also hope that DSD becomes as popular a high resolution format as PCM, as to my ears it sounds superior.


----------



## Dithyrambes

jimmypowder said:


> I only listened to this dac/amp for 10 minutes. Good God!!!! This is what 500 bucks !!?????
> 
> I have listened to alot of dacs and this is the best budget audiophile deal Ive ever heard .


 
 Got mine yesterday. Sounds Bloody Brilliant!


----------



## diamondears

triodemode said:


> I completely agree Jimmy.  IMO for the money, nothing touches the iDSD micro in both sound quality and versatility/portability. The competition is fierce in this quickly evolving market though, and I expect to see a lot of worthy contenders in the near future.
> 
> I also hope that DSD becomes as popular a high resolution format as PCM, as to my ears it sounds superior.




+1 on both points.


----------



## EVOLVIST

dithyrambes said:


> Got mine yesterday. Sounds Bloody Brilliant!




Last Friday I ordered the iDSD micro, the iCAN micro, the iUSB Power and the iTube, so I haven't gotten them yet. I like to read these great reviews, though!

I sort of have the feeling I'll be sending the iCAN back, because the preamp on the iDSD, in theory, should be able to feed my SPL Auditor as a headphone amp, in which case I'll send the iCAN back, for the Gemini and Mercury cables. But you never know: I might find that the iCAN works best, although it has a very steep hill to climb to battle the Auditor.

In fact, I also have the hyrbrid SS/Tube Pro-Ject Pre Box RS Digital coming, so it'll be a shootout between that, the ifi products and my current gear (all the while mixing the three setups).

I really can't wait...but something tells me the ifi gear might win out (minus the iCAN). But hey, I have 30 days tryout on the Pro-Ject gear and 60 days on the ifi gear, so it should be a lot of fun.


----------



## jexby

Where did you order iCAN and iTube with a 60 day return policy?


----------



## EVOLVIST

jexby said:


> Where did you order iCAN and iTube with a 60 day return policy?




Music Direct. I think they're out of Georgia.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

evolvist said:


> Right, so you're saying that if you're using the preamp out, you can still engage the 3D and X-Bass circuits and send that signal to a power amp, yes? That would make sense.
> 
> Also, does anyone know if the RCA cables that come with it are EMI/RFI shielded?


 
  
 Right.  Direct mode is the only one that does not allow you to use the 3D and X-Bass functions (hence direct pass-through of the signal).


----------



## HookedOnAudio

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned a new product or revision of the current iDSD coming out. Are there any more details or info on that?


----------



## ExpiredLabel

Could anyone enlighten me as to if this unit pairs well with the Sony ZX-1 recently released?
 Thank you in advance.


----------



## diamondears

hookedonaudio said:


> Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned a new product or revision of the current iDSD coming out. Are there any more details or info on that?


 

 There is? Someone mentioned it? Where?


----------



## maricius

hookedonaudio said:


> Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned a new product or revision of the current iDSD coming out. Are there any more details or info on that?


 

 I don't recall this. Maybe you read something on the Mini iDSD which will be the desktop variant of the portable Nano iDSD and transportable Micro iDSD.


----------



## diamondears

maricius said:


> I don't recall this. Maybe you read something on the Mini iDSD which will be the desktop variant of the portable Nano iDSD and transportable Micro iDSD.


 

 There was a post by iFi Audio, IIRC, saying the mini iDSD is being reset to much later due to what's happeninged on since the micro iDSD or something was launched and due to its popularity. So the micro iDSD will be updated first? So the mini iDSD will be re-designed again especially the analogue section.
  
 So, we now assume the micro iDSD's analogue (amp) section will be re-designed as well???


----------



## HookedOnAudio

kawaivpc1 said:


> This is very exciting!!
> So, which one sounds the best among these six units?
> I'm interested in Sony PHA-3, iDSD, X1, and Centrance!


 
  
 Like the others, I am also very excited to see this one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Of the ones pictured, I actually have the ADL X1 (which I will probably be selling soon as I found after a few listens that it's not quite the power output level I was looking for, although the DAC is really nice, and it's been kind of just sitting there), so it will be interesting to see how the sounds and actual feel of power in the bass and sub-bass line up.
  
 Has anyone compared just the amp portion of the micro iDSD and Chord Hugo?  That would be interesting.


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> There was a post by iFi Audio, IIRC, saying the mini iDSD is being reset to much later due to what's happeninged on since the micro iDSD or something was launched and due to its popularity. So the micro iDSD will be updated first? So the mini iDSD will be re-designed again especially the analogue section.
> 
> 
> So, we now assume the micro iDSD's analogue (amp) section will be re-designed as well???


 

 Hi all.
  
  
  
 We have:
  
  
  
 1. nano iDSD - launched Dec 2013 Euro189/$189
  
  
  
 2. micro iDSD - launched Aug 2014 Euro 499/$499
  
  
  
 3. mini iDSD* - eta Apr/May 2015 ~Euro1500/$1500
* nomenclature will be slightly different
  
  
  
 In the past, there was some confusion that the mini iDSD is the micro iDSD - this is not the case. They are two distinct animals.
  

_> There was a post by iFi Audio, IIRC, saying the mini iDSD is being reset to much later due to what's happeninged on since the micro iDSD or something was launched and due to its popularity._
 Not quite correct. The nano + micro iDSDs have got us a nice recognition in the industry and as a result of these products, we are working with some to develop the mini iDSD with certain applications for them in mind.
  
  
_> So the mini iDSD will be re-designed again especially the analogue section._
 Correct and more.
  
  
  
_> So, we now assume the micro iDSD's analogue (amp) section will be re-designed as well???_
 Not correct.
  
  
 The mini iDSD is pure desktop. Horses for courses and all that. Plus the different price point means we it will be radically different. Just like the micro is from the nano.
  
  
  
 We hope this clarifies.


----------



## iFi audio

dcginc said:


> What's the best app for iPhone to output DSD to the iFi DSD Micro? Is it Onkyo's HD player?


 

 Hi,
  
  
 We have the iPad Retina and iPhone 4S and 5S and 6Plus.
  
 On all these the apps we use are:
  
 1. Onkyo HF Player (Japan) - PCM/DSD (up to 128)
  
  
 2. Hibiki (Japan) - DSD only (but up to 256)
  
  
 3. KaiserTone (Japan) - PCM/DSD (up to 128)
  
 4. Capriccio - PCM/DXD
  
 iOS is different to OS X hence the ability to do DSD above 128.
  
  
 For completeness, we use the Sony Z2 phone and Z2 tablet. On these two, we use:
  
 1. Sony Hi-Res Player - PCM and DSD (but DSD is transcoded to PCM 176)
  
 2. UAPP = PCM and DSD (both kept native here but the user interface is not as sexy as the Walkman's.


----------



## kawaivpc1

ifi audio said:


> Hi all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What is this mini iDSD about? is it something smaller than iDSD Nano? why is it so expansive?


----------



## iFi audio

maricius said:


> I don't recall this. Maybe you read something on the Mini iDSD which will be the desktop variant of the portable Nano iDSD and transportable Micro iDSD.


 

 Correct - see above! Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

expiredlabel said:


> Could anyone enlighten me as to if this unit pairs well with the Sony ZX-1 recently released?
> Thank you in advance.


 

 Hi,
  
 We use the Sony Xperia and the Z2 tablet and the Z2 phone.
  
 We use both the HiRes Walkman app (PCM and DSD-but DSD is transcoded to PCM176 so it is still very respectable).
  
 We also use UAPP.
  
 These are our two Android apps of choice.
  
 We find the Sony range to be phenomenal.
  
 Plus swapping out 64GB cards means unlimited storage.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Are the 512 Octa adopter Micro iDSD still available? @.@ or is it all sold out?


----------



## diamondears

ifi audio said:


> Hi all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for clarifying. 

Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

billsonchang007 said:


> Are the 512 Octa adopter Micro iDSD still available? @.@ or is it all sold out?


 

 Hi,
  
 Sorry sold out back in August.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry sold out back in August.


 
  
 Thanks for all the clarifications on the product line and upcoming release.  That makes things a lot clearer now!
  
 Pardon me for asking..  What is the 512 Octo Adopter Micro iDSD?  Is that like a special edition with better specs?


----------



## BillsonChang007

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry sold out back in August.




That was fast! Thanks for the heads up


----------



## iFi audio

kawaivpc1 said:


> What is this mini iDSD about? is it something smaller than iDSD Nano? why is it so expansive?


 
  
  
 Hi
  
 Think:
  
 nano = BMW 1 series
 micro = BMW 5 series
 mini (will be renamed) = BMW 8 series
  
 Here you go.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-mini-desktop-line-discussion-thread
  
 Keep a watch over there as we will gradually llet the cat out of the bag.
  
 It is 2015 after all!


----------



## iFi audio

hookedonaudio said:


> Thanks for all the clarifications on the product line and upcoming release.  That makes things a lot clearer now!
> 
> 
> Pardon me for asking..  What is the 512 Octo Adopter Micro iDSD?  Is that like a special edition with better specs?


 

 Hi,
  
 The micro iDSD Octa-Adopter was the first 512 which came with some goodies.
  
 1. Octa-Adopter T-shirt
  
 2. Unique red serial number
  
 3. iCLUB membership.
  
 Way too much info but all to be found here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-3-show-a-little-leg-what-is-it-page-132


----------



## HookedOnAudio

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The micro iDSD Octa-Adopter was the first 512 which came with some goodies.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Okay, thanks much!
  
 Are you all planning a smaller unit than the micro iDSD but with the same level of power output by the way?


----------



## Thorbee

Hello, I understand the mini-iDSD will be fully balanced with balanced line-level outputs, my question is can you please have a 4-pin balanced out for headphones, this is the only thing I did not see in the spec sheet and this would be a definite buy if included (for me anyhow).


----------



## technobear

thorbee said:


> Hello, I understand the mini-iDSD will be fully balanced with balanced line-level outputs, my question is can you please have a 4-pin balanced out for headphones, this is the only thing I did not see in the spec sheet and this would be a definite buy if included (for me anyhow).




Wrong thread. Post it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-mini-desktop-line-discussion-thread/270


----------



## BillsonChang007

hookedonaudio said:


> Okay, thanks much!
> 
> Are you all planning a smaller unit than the micro iDSD but with the same level of power output by the way?


 
 Hey! Wouldn't it be nice if iFi can introduce another product that offers as much power as the Micro iDSD and make it portable?


----------



## iFi audio

hookedonaudio said:


> Okay, thanks much!
> 
> 
> Are you all planning a smaller unit than the micro iDSD but with the same level of power output by the way?


 

 Hi,
  
 There is the nano iDSD and the micro iDSD.
  
 The micro iDSD and both the iPhone 6 Plus/Sony Z2 are a perfect match that suits both camps.
  
 The tech that is the micro iDSD just cannot be made any smaller.
  
 We are good but we're not alchemists!


----------



## kapanak

Can you tell me where I can possibly buy one anywhere in Canada?


----------



## iFi audio

kapanak said:


> Can you tell me where I can possibly buy one anywhere in Canada?


 

 Hi,
  
 Here you go.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/sales/#canada

  
 Thanks.


----------



## kapanak

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you. However, that is not helpful at all. All the shops there are only phone numbers or emails, and do not list iFi products on their sites or allow its purchase. I have contacted all four options, and none of them have the iFi Micro iDSD available, or even stock them. Also, They are all located in Ontario and Quebec, and have odd tax and shipping issues as well.
  
 Do you have any dealers in Vancouver? British Columbia has a huge audiophile community with successful shops all around. Is there any online dealer, even located in the US, that would sell in Canada? It seems iFi doesn't really want to sell in Canada at all. lol


----------



## iFi audio

kapanak said:


> Thank you. However, that is not helpful at all. All the shops there are only phone numbers or emails, and do not list iFi products on their sites or allow its purchase. I have contacted all four options, and none of them have the iFi Micro iDSD available, or even stock them. Also, They are all located in Ontario and Quebec, and have odd tax and shipping issues as well.
> 
> 
> Do you have any dealers in Vancouver? British Columbia has a huge audiophile community with successful shops all around. Is there any online dealer, even located in the US, that would sell in Canada? It seems iFi doesn't really want to sell in Canada at all. lol


 

 Hi,
  
 The best option is to telephone/email Avatar Acoustics - they are best placed to advise you. This is far too specific for us to know as we're across the pond.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## diamondears

The only thing that I'm wishing the micro iDSD have now is the ability to charge the iPhone WHILE playing. Haven't read all the crowd design thread, but was this considered? Why not on micro? Will degrade SQ, correct? No new technology available to solve the SQ?


----------



## Triodemode

Well after sevral months of listening to my micro iDSD there is only one area that doesn't quite match the outstanding DAC section, that being the headphone amplifier.  I am wondering why iFi did not choose to operate it into class A, as I feel the slight tendency toward brightness others have described might have been eliminated. 
  
 The sound to my ears is a bit bright and congested, particularly noticable when using the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic DT880.  Did ecessive heat or power draw prohibit this curcuit from running in class A?  Of course I understand that the 4 watt power output spec would have been substantially reduced however, the improvement in sonics should be a good trade off.
  
 Even the headphone section on my Marantz PM6005 integrated has a more relaxed, open and bigger presentation with no loss of detail when compared to the iDSD using my Sennhieser HD650, 300 ohm DT990 and 600 ohm DT880 headphones.
  
 I am by no means bashing the iDSD micro, as it has IMO no peers at this price point.  Only presenting the one area that could hopefully be improved in future versions from this excellent company.


----------



## john57

Class A would not make sense in micro with battery power. I think that the headphone amp is quite good myself.


----------



## diamondears

triodemode said:


> Well after sevral months of listening to my micro iDSD there is only one area that doesn't quite match the outstanding DAC section, that being the headphone amplifier.  I am wondering why iFi did not choose to operate it into class A, as I feel the slight tendency toward brightness others have described might have been eliminated.
> 
> The sound to my ears is a bit bright and congested, particularly noticable when using the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic DT880.  Did ecessive heat or power draw prohibit this curcuit from running in class A?  Of course I understand that the 4 watt power output spec would have been substantially reduced however, the improvement in sonics should be a good trade off.
> 
> ...




What would a Class A amp section bring into the table? The micro has very low distortion already. If your ears find it bright, there's the XBass. If you find it dark or congested, there's the 3D. Why would you want more heat and dinosaur power consumption in a portable?


----------



## semeniub

And equalisation can be your very good friend also if you find things somewhat bright.


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> The only thing that I'm wishing the micro iDSD have now is the ability to charge the iPhone WHILE playing. Haven't read all the crowd design thread, but was this considered? Why not on micro? Will degrade SQ, correct? No new technology available to solve the SQ?


 

 Hi,
  
 Battery can only be so large in the micro chassis.
  
 This is the main tech barrier - there are other less major ones.
  
 Just as an example, HiFi Man HE-6 on 100% battery (SmartPower not used as no USB power line) lasts ~6 hours. (we confirmed as we have demo'd this at the Nat Audio Show at Whittlebury and RMAF).
  
 If the micro iDSD could recharge and play simultaneously, then it wouldnt last very long and as a couple of hours doesnt really count as portable. IEMs would be longer of course.
  
 Ask Scotty used to say, "Captain, we cant defy the laws of physics". Even though there isnt much portable that drives the HE-6 to  any semi-decent level so the micro iDSD has tech that is quite akin to Trans Warp.


----------



## iFi audio

john57 said:


> Class A would not make sense in micro with battery power. I think that the headphone amp is quite good myself.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Hit the nail on the head.
  
 Class A requires a lot of power that even battery and USB combined struggles to supply.
  
 So with the micro iDSD we got it as close we could but not quite Class A sound quality.
  
 Thanks


----------



## BillsonChang007

diamondears said:


> The only thing that I'm wishing the micro iDSD have now is the ability to charge the iPhone WHILE playing. Haven't read all the crowd design thread, but was this considered? Why not on micro? Will degrade SQ, correct? No new technology available to solve the SQ?


 
 I am not so sure about the degrading part but if you are charging your iPhone, how do you connect the CCK to your iPhone? 
  


triodemode said:


> Well after sevral months of listening to my micro iDSD there is only one area that doesn't quite match the outstanding DAC section, that being the headphone amplifier.  I am wondering why iFi did not choose to operate it into class A, as I feel the slight tendency toward brightness others have described might have been eliminated.
> 
> The sound to my ears is a bit bright and congested, particularly noticable when using the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic DT880.  Did ecessive heat or power draw prohibit this curcuit from running in class A?  Of course I understand that the 4 watt power output spec would have been substantially reduced however, the improvement in sonics should be a good trade off.
> 
> ...


 
 It's a DAC after all. I don't see the need to implement a Class A amplifier when the main function is DAC. Plus, the Micro iDSD, as a whole DAC/amp, sound pretty good together even without any additional amplifiers!


----------



## Esprit

ifi audio said:


> Sorry sold out back in August.


 
 512 Octa adopter for the mini (or what will be the correct name....)?


----------



## audiotweaker

I use the Micro iDSD when I travel.  What I would like to see is an external power option so I could be listening to music on a long flight with an airplane power adapter keeping both the Micro and my phone fully charged.  Same for long road trips in the car.  As it is now you can either listen to music or charge, but not both at the same time.


----------



## knorris908

audiotweaker said:


> I use the Micro iDSD when I travel.  What I would like to see is an external power option so I could be listening to music on a long flight with an airplane power adapter keeping both the Micro and my phone fully charged.  Same for long road trips in the car.  As it is now you can either listen to music or charge, but not both at the same time.




2 Things:

1: I have a SCHIIT Audio ASGARD 2 which is a class A amplifier in a similar metal body construction. I can tell you from personal experience that I would NEVER want a passively cooled class A amp in a metal chasis ANY where near my lap, enclosed laptop bag, or any stored with any plastic-bodied tech gear while running, or just after shutdown. It would warp or melt all of it!

2: if you REALLY wanted to charge while using your iPhone, you could use one of those mini powered USB hubs and probably charge while playing, but:
 A: you'd potentially add noise to the signal which I don't know if the built in iPurifier could negate.
 B: it would be more clutter and wires than I would want to have to deal with personally... But if you NEED it, it might be an option that others could live with...

EDIT: I suppose you COULD try a Y-adapter USB cable to handle simulateous connection to your iPhone's CCK and a USB power adapter. Just a thought...


Ken N.


----------



## diamondears

billsonchang007 said:


> I am not so sure about the degrading part but if you are charging your iPhone, how do you connect the CCK to your iPhone?
> 
> It's a DAC after all. I don't see the need to implement a Class A amplifier when the main function is DAC. Plus, the Micro iDSD, as a whole DAC/amp, sound pretty good together even without any additional amplifiers!




I meant connect the iPhone thru CCK for playing and charging at same time using same CCK. There are portables that can do this. Looks like they produce hiss though, unlike micro iDSD which doesn't. Hence my guess that the SQ might be degraded. 

Way back when I was using FiiO portable amps for my car, I bought a FiiO connector that you can connect to the iPhone (30-pin) and have USB mini for charging and 3.5mm out for the audio signal. When I charge and play at same time, there's a noticeable hiss/noise as well.


----------



## Triodemode

knorris908 said:


> 2 Things:
> 
> 1: I have a SCHIIT Audio ASGARD 2 which is a class A amplifier in a similar metal body construction. I can tell you from personal experience that I would NEVER want a passively cooled class A amp in a metal chasis ANY where near my lap, enclosed laptop bag, or any stored with any plastic-bodied tech gear while running, or just after shutdown. It would warp or melt all of it!
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with you regarding the heat dissipation issues with class A amplification.  I'm curious, how does your Schiit Asgard compare sonically to the headphone section of the iDSD micro?  In my experience nothing sounds better than class A when using solid state amplification.
  
 My previous rant was merely highlighting what I felt of the headphone section not quite matching the sound quality of the iDSD micro DAC section, as many here use a separate headphone amp with the iDSD for this very reason.  Low distortion specs often do not _necessarily_ translate to better sound quality as you may know.


----------



## ITOzann

A quick question from a newbie.

 Can I use the iFi micro idsd as a  DAC when me source is a computer and the output is going to my headphone tube amplifier through a coaxial cable?
  
 Thanks in advance for the input!


----------



## knorris908

itozann said:


> A quick question from a newbie.
> 
> Can I use the iFi micro idsd as a  DAC when me source is a computer and the output is going to my headphone tube amplifier through a coaxial cable?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the input!


 
  
 Yes.  I have often used my iFi Micro directly from our Home Theater PC (Running J River Media Center 20) via USB to RCA-In of ASGARD 2  Excellent sound and setup!
  
 Edit:  Just make sure that you plug in the USB cable to the POWERED ON PC first before you turn on the iFi Micro, or you'll be running down your iFi's internal battery.  Also, TURN OFF and then turn back on your iFi Micro after each time you reboot your PC, or again, it will start draining it's internal battery instead of being powered through the PC's USB port.


----------



## ClieOS

itozann said:


> A quick question from a newbie.
> 
> Can I use the iFi micro idsd as a  DAC when me source is a computer and the output is going to my headphone tube amplifier through a coaxial cable?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the input!


 
  
 Short answer: No. Not with a coaxial connection as it only sends digital signal.
  
 You can however connect iDSD to the tube amp via RCA cable. It looks similar to a coax cable but they are not the same thing


----------



## knorris908

triodemode said:


> I agree with you regarding the heat dissipation issues with class A amplification.  I'm curious, how does your Schiit Asgard compare sonically to the headphone section of the iDSD micro?  In my experience nothing sounds better than class A when using solid state amplification.
> 
> My previous rant was merely highlighting what I felt of the headphone section not quite matching the sound quality of the iDSD micro DAC section, as many here use a separate headphone amp with the iDSD for this very reason.  Low distortion specs often do not _necessarily_ translate to better sound quality as you may know.


 
  
*This answer is SPECIFIC to my Sennheiser HD-650s.  For all our other headphones/earplugs there is little to no difference between the iFi Micro and ASGARD 2 beyond the ASGARD 2 can get them louder, but BOTH make our other headphones louder than we could ever listen to them.*
 I've described it before in other posts, I LOVE the iFi Micro as DAC with my ASGARD 2.  If I compared just using the iFi Micro as a DAC with the ASGARD 2 vs Just using the iFi Micro alone, I'd say that the iFi Micro is REALLY good, getting it up to around 90% of what I get out of the ASGARD 2, but there is just a little more definition, wider soundstage, and just a little more "weight" to music when my headphones are powered by the ASGARD 2.


----------



## EVOLVIST

Well, my experiment with the Pro-Ject Pre Box RS Digital failed badly. Running balanced XLR outs to my SPL Auditor headphone amp, set to unity gain, I not only had to crank the Pre Box to 10, but I also had to go beyond unity gain on my amp. Not so with my DM+.

So, I really hope the ifi stuff does better, since the iDSD, the iUSB Power, the iCAN and the iTube come in tomorrow.

The thing that concerns me now is the iDSD micro having enough power to run unbalanced to my Auditor. I've run unbalanced to my Auditor before, out of my little Aune T1 DAC and it just wouldn't push it. Any thoughts?

I wonder if the iDSD's preamp will help. Or, if I run the iTube inline, with the 6db boost if that will drive well. I would rather have the option, though, to run SS if I want to, or on tubes if the mood strikes me.

Any thoughts of using the iCAN as a preamp, inline, or will that serve only to reamp/distort the picture?

Also, I might have asked before, but does anyone know if RCA cables that come with these boxes are EMI shielded?


----------



## knorris908

evolvist said:


> Well, my experiment with the Pro-Ject Pre Box RS Digital failed badly. Running balanced XLR outs to my SPL Auditor headphone amp, set to unity gain, I not only had to crank the Pre Box to 10, but I also had to go beyond unity gain on my amp. Not so with my DM+.
> 
> So, I really hope the ifi stuff does better, since the iDSD, the iUSB Power, the iCAN and the iTube come in tomorrow.
> 
> ...




I have a hard time imagining the iFi iDSD Micro having difficulty powering much of anything... It puts out over 900mW continuous power at 32 Ohm, and over 1500 peak at 16 Ohm.
I can't answer about the sales being EMI shielded though. Sorry about that.


----------



## BillsonChang007

knorris908 said:


> I have a hard time imagining the iFi iDSD Micro having difficulty powering much of anything... It puts out over 900mW continuous power at 32 Ohm, and over 1500 peak at 16 Ohm.
> I can't answer about the sales being EMI shielded though. Sorry about that.


 
 I have no EMI issue with my iPhone running 3G next to my iFi so far but I am more of a plug and play person


----------



## Triodemode

knorris908 said:


> *This answer is SPECIFIC to my Sennheiser HD-650s.  For all our other headphones/earplugs there is little to no difference between the iFi Micro and ASGARD 2 beyond the ASGARD 2 can get them louder, but BOTH make our other headphones louder than we could ever listen to them.*
> I've described it before in other posts, I LOVE the iFi Micro as DAC with my ASGARD 2.  If I compared just using the iFi Micro as a DAC with the ASGARD 2 vs Just using the iFi Micro alone, I'd say that the iFi Micro is REALLY good, getting it up to around 90% of what I get out of the ASGARD 2, but there is just a little more definition, wider soundstage, and just a little more "weight" to music when my headphones are powered by the ASGARD 2.


 

 Thank you Ken for explaining how that last 10% of the iDSD micro DAC section's sound is realized when listening through your Asgard 2 amp.  I agree that about 90% of the DAC's quality is heard directly from iDSD built in headphone section however, IMO that last bit is only conveyed when a good class A amp such as your Asgard is connected to the line out jacks - and is the same experience I have when listening through my equipment.


----------



## technobear

evolvist said:


> Well, my experiment with the Pro-Ject Pre Box RS Digital failed badly. Running balanced XLR outs to my SPL Auditor headphone amp, set to unity gain, I not only had to crank the Pre Box to 10, but I also had to go beyond unity gain on my amp. Not so with my DM+.
> 
> So, I really hope the ifi stuff does better, since the iDSD, the iUSB Power, the iCAN and the iTube come in tomorrow.
> 
> ...




The SPL Auditor has plenty of gain and will reach full output with much less than 2V input.

The Aune T1 outputs 2V.

The micro iDSD outputs 2V in Eco mode, more in other modes.

You're doing something wrong here. Have you tried turning it up?

...

You could add 6dB with the iTUBE but the Auditor does not need it.

...

The RCA cables supplied by iFi Audio are screened.


----------



## iFi audio

itozann said:


> A quick question from a newbie.
> 
> Can I use the iFi micro idsd as a  DAC when me source is a computer and the output is going to my headphone tube amplifier through a coaxial cable?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the input!


 
  
 Hi,
  
Short answer
 Yes. Via Direct/Pre-mp and through the RCA outputs. Respectable copper ICs are included.
  
Long answer
 Open a support ticket and we'll send you the instruction manual. Way too much to info.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> I meant connect the iPhone thru CCK for playing and charging at same time using same CCK. There are portables that can do this. Looks like they produce hiss though, unlike micro iDSD which doesn't. Hence my guess that the SQ might be degraded.
> 
> Way back when I was using FiiO portable amps for my car, I bought a FiiO connector that you can connect to the iPhone (30-pin) and have USB mini for charging and 3.5mm out for the audio signal. When I charge and play at same time, there's a noticeable hiss/noise as well.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Technically speaking:
  
 1. CCK puts Phone into host mode = cannot charge.
  
 2. To charge and play need to use iPhone's iDevice Accessory mode, limited to 48kHz/16Bit.
  
 Separately, Android has in principle a Charge & Play mode called ACA dock, but it is not widely supported and we have not implemented this on iDSD micro at this time.
  
 So charge and play on iOS is not possible.
  
 Hope this clarifies.


----------



## iFi audio

evolvist said:


> Well, my experiment with the Pro-Ject Pre Box RS Digital failed badly. Running balanced XLR outs to my SPL Auditor headphone amp, set to unity gain, I not only had to crank the Pre Box to 10, but I also had to go beyond unity gain on my amp. Not so with my DM+.
> 
> So, I really hope the ifi stuff does better, since the iDSD, the iUSB Power, the iCAN and the iTube come in tomorrow.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 The line out on the iDSD is 2.1V at 0dBFS and can drive 600 Ohm. If the Preamp is switched in the output can be up to 5.5V.
  
 Warning, in preamp mode the RCA out's have 3D sound for speakers enabled if 3D sound is selected, NOT 3D sound for Headphones.
  
 In many ways 3D for speakers and Headphones are polar opposites in terms of processing and do not work well if misused. So depending on the setting, you may end up with 3D Headphones for Speakers and vice versa. Just wanted to flag this.
  
 Of course the iTUIBE is adjustable 3D for Speakers only.
  
 More options than Subway...


----------



## natra084

I just ordered nano iDSD I just hope it sounds as good as everybody is saying that it sounds.


----------



## EVOLVIST

technobear said:


> The SPL Auditor has plenty of gain and will reach full output with much less than 2V input.
> 
> The Aune T1 outputs 2V.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reply. You know, I totally forgot to add that the Auditor does not have RCA ins, so I ran my Aune T1 to the amp with RCA to XLR cables. Do you think that could have anything to do with not getting enough juice to my cans? I really had to crank the Auditor up, and running RCA disabled the gain and volume controls on my Aune T1, so it just wasn't getting there.
  
 You know, in a perfect world I would be willing to take the Auditor out of the loop if the ifi products gave me the desired results, since I ordered the iCAN along with it. I'll just have to experiment, though. But if running RCA to XLR cuts the signal, then that's no good. Then again, using the RCA outs with the Aune T1 was simply the DAC and a tube buffer, so it's not like I should have expected great results.


----------



## knorris908

natra084 said:


> I just ordered nano iDSD I just hope it sounds as good as everybody is saying that it sounds.




Just to be on the safe side, I've been referring to the iDSD MICRO, not the NANO.... The Nano seems to be highly-regarded as well, but the performance levels will not match what I've been describing... If that was your intent, or if my posts weren't being considered, then I'm pretty sure that you will be happy with what you are getting.

(I only write this because I had mistakenly put an iDSD Nano in my Amazon.com shopping cart instead of the MICRO once, but realized that I had made a mistake.)

Ken N.


----------



## knorris908

Duplicate post


----------



## ieffsmale

Hello,
 Can someone from iFi tell me if the iClub CRM is still in business?
 I started a ticket there (#855092) dealing with a volume control issue that I was having.
 We went back and forth a couple of times, and iFi's last response on 08/07/2014 asked about the other components in my system. I provided that information on 08/15/2014, and haven't heard anything since. No reply to my follow-up inquiry on 11/07/2014 either.
 Thanks,
 Jeff


----------



## natra084

knorris908 said:


> Just to be on the safe side, I've been referring to the iDSD MICRO, not the NANO.... The Nano seems to be highly-regarded as well, but the performance levels will not match what I've been describing... If that was your intent, or if my posts weren't being considered, then I'm pretty sure that you will be happy with what you are getting.
> 
> (I only write this because I had mistakenly put an iDSD Nano in my Amazon.com shopping cart instead of the MICRO once, but realized that I had made a mistake.)
> 
> Ken N.


 
 I know but I bought nano and I'm just going to use as a dac I bought  GUSTARD H10 amp.at the same price As I micro would cost me I think this amplifier is much powerful then a micro.


----------



## knorris908

natra084 said:


> I know but I bought nano and I'm just going to use as a dac I bought  GUSTARD H10 amp.at the same price As I micro would cost me I think this amplifier is much powerful then a micro.


 

 Cool.  Just so long as you are okay with the Nano being single DAC vs the dual Mono-DAC performance of the MICRO, and that the Nano tops-out at QuadDSD 256 vs OctaDSD 512 in the MICRO in terms of future-proofing.
  
 I'd love to hear how you feel the iFi Nano pairs with your GUSTARD!
  
 Ken N.


----------



## natra084

knorris908 said:


> Cool.  Just so long as you are okay with the Nano being single DAC vs the dual Mono-DAC performance of the MICRO, and that the Nano tops-out at QuadDSD 256 vs OctaDSD 512 in the MICRO in terms of future-proofing.
> 
> I'd love to hear how you feel the iFi Nano pairs with your GUSTARD!
> 
> Ken N.



I have real difficulty hearing and the difference between dac so I just thought get this one is very good price and has a lot of features and it'amp to.I just can't hear the difference between Dac but I can hear the difference change amplifiers or headphones and those two things makes the biggest difference.


----------



## technobear

evolvist said:


> Thanks for the reply. You know, I totally forgot to add that the Auditor does not have RCA ins, so I ran my Aune T1 to the amp with RCA to XLR cables. Do you think that could have anything to do with not getting enough juice to my cans? I really had to crank the Auditor up, and running RCA disabled the gain and volume controls on my Aune T1, so it just wasn't getting there.




Yes that would explain it BUT there is no harm in turning the gain control on the Auditor up high. That's what it's there for!

Are you saying you turned the Auditor all the way up and it still wasn't enough?

Using the iDSD in pre-amp mode and turning it all the way up should solve the problem.

Inserting the iTUBE in +6dB mode should also solve the problem.

The iCAN sounds very good but do bear in mind that these devices takes 200 hours to 'burn in' before they give their final sound and they do go through 'growing pains'.


----------



## EVOLVIST

technobear said:


> Yes that would explain it BUT there is no harm in turning the gain control on the Auditor up high. That's what it's there for!
> 
> Are you saying you turned the Auditor all the way up and it still wasn't enough?
> 
> ...




Yes, I would turn the Auditor all the way up, and sure, I could hear it, but it wouldn't DRIVE, ya know? I mean, I don't blow my eardrums out; still, it wasn't up to my comfortable listening range.

Strange that my DM+ running line level has tons of room to spare, yet the Pre Box at line level was crap, and then running my Aune from RCA to XLR was too low.

I'll check out how the iDSD from RCA to XLR works, as it might have just been the Aune. In theory they should both be fine considering the interconnect is just plain old analog, but, like I said the Aune might not be performing well in that regard.

Anyway, 200 hours...awesome!


----------



## tf1216

The beloved Micro iDSD received Product of the Year from Lee Scoggins at Headphone Guru.  How cool is that?
  
 http://headphone.guru/product-of-the-year-2014-reviewer-picks/3/)


----------



## kissmevn

Does the iCan has a better amp than the micro's internal amp ? What's the different ?


----------



## natra084

hi guys quick question the spdif output can also be used as a input on the nano.


----------



## technobear

natra084 said:


> hi guys quick question the spdif output can also be used as a input on the nano.




This is the micro thread. Try here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683406/ifi-audio-nano-idsd-discussion-impression/1080


----------



## EVOLVIST

Well, I got all of my micro gear in today. I have to say, the packaging sure is sexy.

So, I'll get home, let the batteries charge up and give it a quick whirl. Afterwards I'll let it burn in for 200 hours and then give it another go. 

P.S. I find it interesting that if the iTube is supposed to last 100,000 hours, and if I listen to it for 1.5 hours a day, theoretically, it would take me 182 years to burn it out! I wonder if ifi will replace it for my great-great-great grandchildren.


----------



## jexby

evolvist said:


> Well, I got all of my micro gear in today. I have to say, the packaging sure is sexy.
> 
> So, I'll get home, let the batteries charge up and give it a quick whirl. Afterwards I'll let it burn in for 200 hours and then give it another go.


 
  
 it was recommended by iFi for the initial charge:  let iFi iDSD micro charge the battery for a full 24 hours!
 leave it plugged in for 24 hours, even though the LED light will go off before 24hours elapses.


----------



## SonicWarrior

Took the jump and ordered in Amazon through Avatar Acoustics. Hope it turns out well. Keeping my fingers crossed on how it matches up with my Fidelio X2 and B&W P7 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 BTW, can you guys suggest me a not-so-pricey but decent headphone stand?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Triodemode

kissmevn said:


> Does the iCan has a better amp than the micro's internal amp ? What's the different ?


 

 I do not own an iCAN myself, though several comments throughout this thread and elsewhere have indicated that the iCAN amp does indeed sound better.  This makes sense as the iCAN utilizes a beautifully designed discrete class A topology, while the iDSD micro contains more conventional chip based circuitry.  I have read that the Xbass equalization curve is a little more pronounced in the iCAN as well.


----------



## parkman

jexby said:


> it was recommended by iFi for the initial charge:  let iFi iDSD micro charge the battery for a full 24 hours!
> leave it plugged in for 24 hours, even though the LED light will go off before 24hours elapses.


 
  
 Just so you know EVOLVIST, they also said it's not like it will harm it though if you listen to it before the 24 hours is up, it's just to ensure the best possible battery life long-term.
 They even considered it a bit "OCD" from what I remember lol. But then again.. I'm OCD myself when buying any new product that's as nice as the iDSD  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Don't forget, you can use different chargers to improve the charging time.  I charged mine fully in roughly 15 hours the first time when using the iPad charger.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> There is the nano iDSD and the micro iDSD.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I see.  So, basically, for the foreseeable future, the smallest amp you could make with similar (or higher) power output would be the already-existing micro iDSD, right?


----------



## HookedOnAudio

billsonchang007 said:


> Hey! Wouldn't it be nice if iFi can introduce another product that offers as much power as the Micro iDSD and make it portable?



 


Hehe, exactly what I was thinking. But, it looks like it's not possible.


----------



## diamondears

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Technically speaking:
> 
> ...




Yes, I know. Just hoping it does in the future. I use my iPhone 6 for long periods in the car and I always find the battery low upon reaching my destination. Would save for an even improved micro iDSD instead of buy another player..


----------



## EVOLVIST

Bummer. I had to put in a ticket because both of my computers will not detect the iDSD micro. Just a flashing blue LED when off and a flashing green one when on. The USB software will not install because it says my device has to be plugged in...when it IS plugged in. I've read through about 200 pages here without finding an answer. 64-bit Windows 7. USB 2.0 and 3.0.

I'm at a loss. I guess I'll see what they say. I've never had a problem connecting anything to either machine.


----------



## iFi audio

evolvist said:


> Bummer. I had to put in a ticket because both of my computers will not detect the iDSD micro. Just a flashing blue LED when off and a flashing green one when on. The USB software will not install because it says my device has to be plugged in...when it IS plugged in. I've read through about 200 pages here without finding an answer. 64-bit Windows 7. USB 2.0 and 3.0.
> 
> I'm at a loss. I guess I'll see what they say. I've never had a problem connecting anything to either machine.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Am sure one of our staff will revert to your support ticket but in the meantime, your LED status can be checked here:
  
  
What the different Battery LEDs mean
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/
  
 From your description, the battery needs a major charge from a high power (BC1.2, not Apple standard) port.
  
 1) The iDSD micro cannot turn with flat battery, unless the USB port provides more than 0.5A current AND (crucial) is recognised as such by iDSD micro. So Apple is NOT recognised, so iDSD micro will not take more than 500mA.
  
 2) If running in Eco mode with a full battery there will usually just about enough current from a USB port to run the iDSD micro, but it may on occasion nudge above 500mA, any other mode will need a BC1.2 port or it will take power from the battery. Such as running with HE-6.
  
  
Charging suggestions
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/orico-high-power-usb-hub-one-sure-way-to-feed-the-meaty-monster/
  
 You do not have to buy the Orico but it is one we have tested and recommend as we receive quite a few of these requests.
  
 Also, if you have an iPad or Android charger check the rating as they are "higher power" than the standard iPhone charger and will get your micro iDSD up and running sooner.
  
 The battery is very big and so it needs a major charge once out of the box.
  
 Cheers.
  
  
 For sure, one of our staff will get back to you on your support ticket.


----------



## EVOLVIST

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Am sure one of our staff will revert to your support ticket but in the meantime, your LED status can be checked here:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you so much for your reply. So, you're saying that, in theory, getting it fully charged then the machines should start detecting it?
  
 My wife and kids have iPads, so I could try hooking it up that way, although I don't know much about Apple products. But look here! - wow, I've already gotten a response back from customer service!
  
 You guys seem like a class act, all the way! I can't even believe a manufacturer spends this much time and care in the forums.


----------



## iFi audio

evolvist said:


> Thank you so much for your reply. So, you're saying that, in theory, getting it fully charged then the machines should start detecting it?
> 
> My wife and kids have iPads, so I could try hooking it up that way, although I don't know much about Apple products. But look here! - wow, I've already gotten a response back from customer service!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Slight update above.
  
 Yes - we recommend a full charge and from thereon, (unless you use hungry headphones like HE-6) things should be okay.
  
 Think of it as like a petrol tank. It needs to start off full (ideally full) and then whichever headphone is connected to it will deplete the battery as it is of course a serious headphone amp too (as well as being a DAC).
  
 Depending upon the headphones, they may sup the petrol faster then the little USB port can replenish it at, then eventually it will go flat of course.
  
 Also, the micro iDSD has SmartPower which means if it detects a USB port, even though it has been initiated on battery, it will tap from the USB power line just because it is there.
  
 So pure battery, HE-6 works for ~6 hours. Running battery with USB power line, HE-6 works for ~8 hours. (all approx).
  
 But from the outset, the battery or petrol tank needs to be full to run.
  
 Hope you get the gist.


----------



## EVOLVIST

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Slight update above.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah...I'm pretty sure I get the gist. Makes sense. I also purchased the iUSB power, so that helps, I suppose. My cans are HD800s, which are relatively difficult to drive. So, I just need to be full up on battery power first.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## senorx12562

Evolvist, I had the same problem, which was solved by uninstalling and reinstalling version 2.20 of the driver,and going through the set up process again. I was warned off of using v.2.23.


----------



## Turrican2

senorx12562 said:


> Evolvist, I had the same problem, which was solved by uninstalling and reinstalling version 2.20 of the driver,and going through the set up process again. I was warned off of using v.2.23.


why warned off?


----------



## iFi audio

turrican2 said:


> why warned off?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 v2.23 doesnt work on some particualr PC setups. So v2.20 there to cover those for whom v2.23 does not work. Just making sure everyone is covered!
  
 Cheers.


----------



## EVOLVIST

senorx12562 said:


> Evolvist, I had the same problem, which was solved by uninstalling and reinstalling version 2.20 of the driver,and going through the set up process again. I was warned off of using v.2.23.


 
  
 Yeah, but I can't get the thing to take an initial charge to even get to that point. I mean, I'm sure everything will work out, even if I've gotten a bad unit, so we'll see.
  
 I was told by customer support that I could try my USB charger that I use with my android phone, but when I try that the blue light goes to black and it's not charging.
  
 I certainly don't want to break it! I'll try my wife's apple charger when I get home. * crosses fingers *


----------



## senorx12562

evolvist said:


> Yeah, but I can't get the thing to take an initial charge to even get to that point. I mean, I'm sure everything will work out, even if I've gotten a bad unit, so we'll see.
> 
> I was told by customer support that I could try my USB charger that I use with my android phone, but when I try that the blue light goes to black and it's not charging.
> 
> I certainly don't want to break it! I'll try my wife's apple charger when I get home. * crosses fingers *



Every USB charger I've tried has worked so far.


----------



## semeniub

I have a renewed appreciation of the DSD capabilities of the Micro iDSD.
  
 Recently I began experimenting with upsampling all my PCM music (cd and hires) to DSD in realtime using HQPlayer (I could reliably upsample to DSD256 using my Macbook). This sounded just lovely... but it's not the solution for everyone due to the computing demands and the clunkiness of the HQPlayer interface. Definitely try it out if you have the opportunity.
  
 What was really interesting was the even tone and spaciousness this setup provided with some HiFiMAN RE-600 IEM's I recently acquired at a nice reduced price. I may have even preferred this to my Audeze LCD2's.


----------



## EVOLVIST

senorx12562 said:


> Every USB charger I've tried has worked so far.


 
  
 Every USB charger I've used so far has not.
  
 It's not like iFi has a rep for bad units, but I believe I have one of the few.  Oh, well, it happens. Right now I'm burning in my iCAN and iTube, so it's not like I don't have gear to play with. In fact, I'm about to turn on my little Aune T1 and run that out to the iFi gear and see how it sounds, along with my iUSB Power and my SPL Auditor. Yay!


----------



## senorx12562

evolvist said:


> Every USB charger I've used so far has not.
> 
> It's not like iFi has a rep for bad units, but I believe I have one of the few.  Oh, well, it happens. Right now I'm burning in my iCAN and iTube, so it's not like I don't have gear to play with. In fact, I'm about to turn on my little Aune T1 and run that out to the iFi gear and see how it sounds, along with my iUSB Power and my SPL Auditor. Yay!




I'm sure ifi I will take care of you.


----------



## Edric Li

So I can use the blue cable to hook up my iPhone/iPad little white charger with the iDSD to charge it, correct?


----------



## Dithyrambes

edric li said:


> So I can use the blue cable to hook up my iPhone/iPad little white charger with the iDSD to charge it, correct?


 
 Correct. Plug the blue cable into the charger and it shoudl charge


----------



## Bilbow

I was going to ask if What Hi-Fi? has reviewed the iDSD Micro, but after a search on their site my wider question is really: Has What Hi-Fi? actually reviewed anything from IFI Audio?  It appears they are not even listed as a brand.


----------



## jimmypowder

Question on this dac regarding charging the battery.
  
 Can I use to USB female to female adapter included and my own USB cable plugged into a iphone plug to charge this device instead of the blue cable
  
 Also, can I use a different USB a male to USB a female to charge and play the device through the apple iphone plug?


----------



## iFi audio

jimmypowder said:


> Question on this dac regarding charging the battery.
> 
> Can I use to USB female to female adapter included and my own USB cable plugged into a iphone plug to charge this device instead of the blue cable
> 
> Also, can I use a different USB a male to USB a female to charge and play the device through the apple iphone plug?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 > Can I use to USB female to female adapter included and my own USB cable plugged into a iphone plug to charge this device instead of the blue cable
  
 Yes, but the Blue cable is USB3.0 compliant and will charge faster as this is a spec of USB 3.0 versus USB2.0.
  
  
 > Also, can I use a different USB a male to USB a female to charge and play the device through the apple iphone plug?
 Apple CCK/Lightning to USB is required.
  
 But you cannot charge and play as CCK places iDevice into Host mode.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## audiotweaker

semeniub said:


> I have a renewed appreciation of the DSD capabilities of the Micro iDSD.
> 
> Recently I began experimenting with upsampling all my PCM music (cd and hires) to DSD in realtime using HQPlayer (I could reliably upsample to DSD256 using my Macbook). This sounded just lovely... but it's not the solution for everyone due to the computing demands and the clunkiness of the HQPlayer interface. Definitely try it out if you have the opportunity.
> 
> What was really interesting was the even tone and spaciousness this setup provided with some HiFiMAN RE-600 IEM's I recently acquired at a nice reduced price. I may have even preferred this to my Audeze LCD2's.


 
  
 You can upsample all PCM rates to DSD128 in Jriver as well.  It has a better user interface and Jremote.  And it's less expensive.


----------



## semeniub

audiotweaker said:


> You can upsample all PCM rates to DSD128 in Jriver as well.  It has a better user interface and Jremote.  And it's less expensive.


 

 I've tried JRiver many times (Mac and PC versions) to do just that, and never was satisfied at all. I've also upsampled to DSD128 offline using Korg Audiogate and that was better, but still did not hit the sweet spot like HQPlayer upsampling to DSD256 and higher.
  
 I do agree that the interface to HQPlayer is open to much improvement, so it will always be secondary to my use of Audirvana+ and Fidelia for regular playback.


----------



## iFi audio

audiotweaker said:


> You can upsample all PCM rates to DSD128 in Jriver as well.  It has a better user interface and Jremote.  And it's less expensive.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Couple of comments to clarify.
  
 During the development of the micro iDSD, as there were(are) no native DSD 512 files and very few native DSD256 files, we had to use:
  
 - J-River with ASIOPROXY to perform DSD512 conversion and that conversion to DSD regardless of the engine used (we have all the software including Weiss Saracon and Pyramix and some others) is lossy until at least DSD256.
  
 - Among those conversion engines the Chief Designer who had to listen to endless amounts of DSD256 and DSD512 conversions disiked ASIOPROXY the least, but preferred to keep things native in PCM if that is what the source is.
  
 Hence, in order to test DSD256/512 we ended up using all available upsamplers and playing stuff we liked (often MP3 sources).
  
 If you spend hours a day listening to see if something glitches - you get very sensitive to what you are listening to.
  
 But this is the fun of computer audio - endless options and possibilities.


----------



## semeniub

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Couple of comments to clarify.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like a terrible job - how can you ever enjoy listening to any music at all after that?


----------



## iFi audio

semeniub said:


> Sounds like a terrible job - how can you ever enjoy listening to any music at all after that?


 
  
 We know. Tell us about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Especially after having done an audio show because most rooms (and ours when we do customer requests) all play the same audiophile music - Eagles Hotel California et al.
  
 We usually dont listen to those tracks ever. Even Taylor Swift is more enjoyable (no offence meant to Taylor fans out there).
  
 On this topic, despite our preference for Bit-Perfect, we do find that compressed rock/pop stuff especially MP3s like Glitch Mob (no FLAC) does sound that bit nicer - not night and day but a touch nicer when converted from MP3 > DSD.
  
 This is just our subjective experience.


----------



## audiotweaker

semeniub said:


> I've tried JRiver many times (Mac and PC versions) to do just that, and never was satisfied at all. I've also upsampled to DSD128 offline using Korg Audiogate and that was better, but still did not hit the sweet spot like HQPlayer upsampling to DSD256 and higher.
> 
> I do agree that the interface to HQPlayer is open to much improvement, so it will always be secondary to my use of Audirvana+ and Fidelia for regular playback.


 
 I agree that HQPlayer has the best resampling algorithms of all the current Mac music players but the UI is so lame I cannot recommend it or justify the cost.  Maybe if enough people complain Jussi will improve it.


----------



## semeniub

audiotweaker said:


> I agree that HQPlayer has the best resampling algorithms of all the current Mac music players but the UI is so lame I cannot recommend it or justify the cost.  Maybe if enough people complain Jussi will improve it.


 

 Well, if iFi can sell enough iDSD's, there may be enough demand to encourage Jussi to spend some more time on the interface.


----------



## tf1216

semeniub said:


> Well, if iFi can sell enough iDSD's, there may be enough demand to encourage Jussi to spend some more time on the interface.


 
 Why not use JRiver?  That program is fully tweaked out.


----------



## semeniub

tf1216 said:


> Why not use JRiver?  That program is fully tweaked out.


 

 Doesn't sound tricked out, at least to my ears. That's just my opinion, my music, my ears. Others may have a different preference of course.


----------



## tf1216

Gotcha.  You would like the qualities of HQPlayer's playback with JRiver usability?  
  
 Do you know if both parties describe anywhere how they handle modifying the original format to be something else?


----------



## semeniub

tf1216 said:


> Gotcha.  You would like the qualities of HQPlayer's playback with JRiver usability?
> 
> Do you know if both parties describe anywhere how they handle modifying the original format to be something else?


 

 Something like that.
  
 Most research algorithms in digital signal processing have likely been initially developed in Matlab, and there may even be a DSD conversion Matlab toolbox already available (???). Knowing exactly what they have implemented is beyond my level of interest, but what has already been developed in Matlab code would be a good place to begin looking if you are curious.
  
 Jussi certainly gives the impression that he is right on top of this topic technically, so I would guess that he is implementing the SOTA.


----------



## tf1216

Thanks semeniub.  I had not idea MATLAB was a key contributor to advancing DSP in the audio realm.  I have been a MATLAB user for years.  I may just research this a bit more.


----------



## semeniub

tf1216 said:


> Thanks semeniub.  I had not idea MATLAB was a key contributor to advancing DSP in the audio realm.  I have been a MATLAB user for years.  I may just research this a bit more.


 

 Not Matlab per se, but the researchers who use Matlab to develop their mathematical ideas.
  
 http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fileexchange/19-delta-sigma-toolbox


----------



## jimmypowder

This is one sick device ! Has anyone found a better Dac/amp for 500 bucks? If so I wanna hear it


----------



## h1f1add1cted

No if you compare *ALL *features and specs in one single device, there is no other solution.


----------



## jexby

h1f1add1cted said:


> No if you compare *ALL *features and specs in one single device, there is no other solution.


 

 +1
  
 iFi iDSD micro is a genius product.
 or a product created by geniuses.


----------



## jimmypowder

h1f1add1cted said:


> No if you compare *ALL *features and specs in one single device, there is no other solution.


 

 That's what I figured . I have never hear anything like it for 500 bucks. I was so impressed
 I immediately bought a ifi USB Power to complement it for desktop listening.


----------



## Edric Li

jexby said:


> +1
> 
> iFi iDSD micro is a genius product.
> or a product created by geniuses.


 
  
 It is a piece of art, too
  
 When deciding between HIFI M8 and Micro iDSD, I eventually went for iDSD for its well-designed looking and iFi's well-organized product lines. I'm pretty sure such company will take care of my unit and will release something I may looking for. 
  
 Well done, iFi.
  
  
 The only problem I got is that I don't know where to find DSD files... is purchasing SACD the only way?
 Could anybody recommend me some sites to purchase DSD music? I listen to basically anything but classical music.


----------



## jhwalker

edric li said:


> . . .
> The only problem I got is that I don't know where to find DSD files... is purchasing SACD the only way?
> Could anybody recommend me some sites to purchase DSD music? I listen to basically anything but classical music.


 
  
 Let me Google that for you . . .   
  
 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=buy+dsd+music
  
 Seriously, not difficult to find  LOL


----------



## Edric Li

jhwalker said:


> Let me Google that for you . . .
> 
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=buy+dsd+music
> 
> Seriously, not difficult to find  LOL


 
  
 AHH I see why its difficult for me... I am in China now, where you can't google  GFW, you know it right LOL
  
 Okay I'll do more research when I go back to the US. Thanks anyway.


----------



## jhwalker

edric li said:


> AHH I see why its difficult for me... I am in China now, where you can't google  GFW, you know it right LOL
> 
> Okay I'll do more research when I go back to the US. Thanks anyway.


 

 LOL, sorry dude 
  
 I was there a month or two ago (going back next month) and spent a couple days wondering why my Internet service was so bad (i.e., the sites I visit all the time - Google, Facebook, Twiiter, etc. were "not working").  Literally took me that long to catch a clue . . . duh
  
 So, instead of Google, use Bing - you'll get exactly the same results.  Just search for "buy DSD music".  Not sure what sites will be available to you in China  but you should get a list of several good sites from which you can purchase DSD files.


----------



## Edric Li

jhwalker said:


> LOL, sorry dude
> 
> I was there a month or two ago (going back next month) and spent a couple days wondering why my Internet service was so bad (i.e., the sites I visit all the time - Google, Facebook, Twiiter, etc. were "not working").  Literally took me that long to catch a clue . . . duh
> 
> So, instead of Google, use Bing - you'll get exactly the same results.  Just search for "buy DSD music".  Not sure what sites will be available to you in China  but you should get a list of several good sites from which you can purchase DSD files.


 
  
 Got it! Thx a lot


----------



## audiotweaker

jimmypowder said:


> This is one sick device ! Has anyone found a better Dac/amp for 500 bucks? If so I wanna hear it


 
 I have already sold two friends on the Micro iDSD.  I should get kick-backs from iFi.


----------



## ultraman

Hi, i wonder if anyone can help me?
I noticed when I have my android phone (Oneplus One) connected and micro turned off, the micro is draining my phone battery. My phone is charging the micro.
 Should this be so?


----------



## Dithyrambes

ultraman said:


> Hi, i wonder if anyone can help me?
> I noticed when I have my android phone (Oneplus One) connected and micro turned off, the micro is draining my phone battery. My phone is charging the micro.
> Should this be so?


 
 Yes. the micro tries to charge whenever it is off. You should unplug the micro from your phone if you are not using it.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Hello Ultraman,
  
 I too own a OnePlus One, but I do not own the micro. Howerver, it sounds to me that the micro is draining power from the OnePlus One to charge its own battery. I am assuming this, and perhaps it is a valid assumption if the micro is without full charge and not plugged into a wall outlet for power.
  
 Is the micro, also plugged into the wall with a full charge? If it is, and it is still draining the OnePlus One then that is an oddity the good Ifi folks would need to look into. 
  
 Regards,
  
 Eric


----------



## citraian

I think you need to start the micro in battery mode before plugging it in. Check the manual


----------



## ultraman

Thanks for the replies.
 I always start in battery mode. The problem is when micro is turn off and still connected to my phone.
  
 I guess the only way is to unplug the micro if I don't what my phone to charge the micro.


----------



## orlando1

I am new to this Discussion Forum, I am not sure if I am doing this right. Please let me know if not.
  
 I recently purchased a iFi Nano iDSD USB DAC Headphone Amp .
 However, needing  Optical capability on one connector on an Amp,
 I was told to buy the $499.00 Amp from iFi.
  
 When I looked iFi's on-line page by clicking under (  BRANDS ( iFi ) page ) I noticed there were quantity (2) $499.00 Amps.
  
 One was Called the          iFi iDSD – Octa-Speed USB DAC Headphone Amp.
 The other was Called        iFi Micro iDSD DAC- Octa-Speed DSD512, Double-Speed DXD, PCM 32 bit/768kHk USB DAC Headamp
  
 Both of these were $499.00 each.
  
 So my question is:
  
 Are these Different Amps ?
 If they are, what is different about them ?
 I mostly want a Headphone Amp to listen to and amplify digital recordings on an iPad mini and a Sony PCM-D50 Digital recorder.
  
 HELP  HELP  . . .


----------



## tf1216

Do you have screenshots of what you are seeing? 

Are you trying to have an optical output of your laptop.


----------



## orlando1

Yes I am .
  
 But since I have not purchased one of the (two) units listed by iFi, both at $499.00
 I don't know witch one to buy ? 
  
 At this point I am more interested in the ( DIFFERENCES ) between them.
  
 iFi iDSD – Octa-Speed USB DAC Headphone Amp   $499.00
  
                        VS
 iFi Micro iDSD DAC- Octa-Speed DSD512, Double-Speed DXD, PCM 32 bit/768kHk USB DAC Headamp   $499.00
  
  
 ? ? ?


----------



## Loquah

Hi all, I currently have the iDAC and iCAN, but I'm keen to get an iDSD. A fellow enthusiast and Head-Fier mentioned that the soundstage from the iDSD micro wasn't as big as he expected (lacking depth), but acknowledged that it may have been the earphones he was using.
Can you please tell me if the DAC alone and DAC+amp of the iDSD create a spacious soundstage? Is the inbuilt amp a limiting factor in this?
Thanks!


----------



## tf1216

The Micro iDSD does not have an optical input. 

Please attach a link so we can see what you see.


----------



## SonicWarrior

Folks,
  
 My micro idsd arrived today and I am almost at the 24hour mark to complete the initial charge. I have a Macbook pro which will be my main source for listening.
  
 What is the best player to get the best out of micro? Is itunes good enough for all MP3 as well as high-res files? Is there any link/support document to use this?
  
 Also, I just tried connecting micro to my mac to do a quick listen. I played a 268 kbps VBR MP3/44.1 Khz song through micro and I notice the light is white and not green? Am I missing something here?
  
 Also,  what is the best way to use micro when playing through Mac/desktop? I mean is it better to use power from internal battery/usb power?
  
 Sorry for too many questions.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Edric Li

loquah said:


> Hi all, I currently have the iDAC and iCAN, but I'm keen to get an iDSD. A fellow enthusiast and Head-Fier mentioned that the soundstage from the iDSD micro wasn't as big as he expected (lacking depth), but acknowledged that it may have been the earphones he was using.
> Can you please tell me if the DAC alone and DAC+amp of the iDSD create a spacious soundstage? Is the inbuilt amp a limiting factor in this?
> Thanks!


 
  
 I asked similar question direct to iFi, and they tell me that iDSD is an UPGRADED version of "iCAN + iDAC + Purifier". So if you want to stick with iFi products, the only thing you'll need to get is the Micro iDSD. You can also get a iUSBPower for perfection. 
  
 If you do desktop listen only, I suggest you to wait for the mini iDSD.


----------



## jimmypowder

I tried the IFi USB Power with a Benchmark Dac and it actually introduced
 more noise into my system not less. Im using balanced cables to Genelec speakers.
  
 I tried multiple cables and still more noise. Maybe its because this is a balanced system
  
 The ifi micro idsd I would have to say has no peers in the price range it's in. A terrific dac/amp


----------



## Loquah

edric li said:


> I asked similar question direct to iFi, and they tell me that iDSD is an UPGRADED version of "iCAN + iDAC + Purifier". So if you want to stick with iFi products, the only thing you'll need to get is the Micro iDSD. You can also get a iUSBPower for perfection.
> 
> If you do desktop listen only, I suggest you to wait for the mini iDSD.


 
  
 Thanks for the response. I want the iDSD for a one-piece transportable solution when I'm working at clients' offices, but I would want something with a good soundstage size. Does the micro iDSD offer this?


----------



## jexby

loquah said:


> Thanks for the response. I want the iDSD for a one-piece transportable solution when I'm working at clients' offices, but I would want something with a good soundstage size. Does the micro iDSD offer this?


 
  
 I can think of no other one-piece solution that would "out perform" the iFi iDSD micro.
 but-  soundstage of the amp is not it's strongest characteristic, until you enable the 3D switch and then the height and width opens up.
  
 soundstage of your headphones likely plays the bigger factor here, as iFi iDSD micro can't make your "closed/narrow/intimate" headphones sound super open/wide by itself.
  
 that being said, my 3D feature is on all the time- it even makes IEMs have an "out of ear" feeling to the music.
 superb.


----------



## EVOLVIST

jimmypowder said:


> I tried the IFi USB Power with a Benchmark Dac and it actually introduced
> more noise into my system not less. Im using balanced cables to Genelec speakers.
> 
> I tried multiple cables and still more noise. Maybe its because this is a balanced system
> ...


 
  
 That's strange. I doubt it's because you're running balanced. Of course I'm not an expert on iFi gear, having just got mine, but I've ran my iUSB Power between my comp, my DacMagic Plus (which has comparable specs to the Benchmark), out to my SPL Auditor, all balanced, and there was certainly a sense of space between in the instruments and vocals that had not been there before. I was actually shocked that I was able to tell a difference, having come into this purchase with much skepticism.
  
 I don't know what could cause that. Then again, my study must be excellent as far as power, EMI or any other external interference judging from people I've spoken to and horror stories I've read online. Just a good Monster Power Pro 1000 surge/power conditioner solved any issues I've had, better than any high dollar PSUs.


----------



## EVOLVIST

jexby said:


> soundstage of your headphones likely plays the bigger factor here, as iFi iDSD micro can't make your "closed/narrow/intimate" headphones sound super open/wide by itself.


 
  
 Interesting thoughts. I haven't gotten my iDSD micro up and running yet, and I don't know what sort of cans you're listening out of, but my experience with the 3D effect on the iCAN - which I'm assuming is very similar, if not the exact same circuitry as the iDSD - is with my HD800s the 3D effect is almost like, "No, dude, these cans are already deep and wide, this effect just makes it sound strange." It's as if I couldn't get anymore wider or spacious. Having said that, my experience runs a bit to the contrary of how the 3D effect is advertised. To wit, they say that older recordings would benefit the most, but it's actually the newer recordings that sound like 3D effect actually does something.
  
 Perhaps I need to listen to some Beatles, Elvis, Beach Boys mono recordings and try it out. I think I'll do that tonight and see what the effect is.
  
 Edit: No change to mono at all! Haha!


----------



## jexby

evolvist said:


> Interesting thoughts. I haven't gotten my iDSD micro up and running yet, and I don't know what sort of cans you're listening out of, but my experience with the 3D effect on the iCAN - which I'm assuming is very similar, if not the exact same circuitry as the iDSD - is with my HD800s the 3D effect is almost like, "No, dude, these cans are already deep and wide, this effect just makes it sound strange." It's as if I couldn't get anymore wider or spacious. Having said that, my experience runs a bit to the contrary of how the 3D effect is advertised. To wit, they say that older recordings would benefit the most, but it's actually the newer recordings that sound like 3D effect actually does something.
> 
> Perhaps I need to listen to some Beatles, Elvis, Beach Boys mono recordings and try it out. I think I'll do that tonight and see what the effect is.


 
  
 makes some sense if you have HD800 that you can't get/extract any more soundstage by enabling 3D, and it could be highly variable to headphone pairing.
  
 note:  the 3D effect on iCan IS different (in some ways) than on iDSD micro.
 IIRC some have said the iCAN 3D is more hm... strong?/intense/noticeable? than iDSD micro's implementation.
  
 to my listening pairs (below), the 3D does help-
 as normally connected to iDSD micro:  IEMs (UM3X, Heir Audio 4.AiS) and NAD HP50.  only 5% of the time with HE-560.


----------



## iFi audio

orlando1 said:


> I am new to this Discussion Forum, I am not sure if I am doing this right. Please let me know if not.
> 
> I recently purchased a iFi Nano iDSD USB DAC Headphone Amp .
> However, needing  Optical capability on one connector on an Amp,
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 There is only one micro iDSD:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/products/micro/
  
 If ever in doubt, refer to www.ifi-audio.com
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

tf1216 said:


> The Micro iDSD does not have an optical input.
> 
> Please attach a link so we can see what you see.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Small correction. The micro iDSD has an optical input.
  
 There is an optical adpater inside the micro iDSD pouch (that ships with the unit).
  
 If you insert this into the SPDIF port then one can send in an optical SPDIF signal, hence optical input.
  
 Reference from the www.ifi-audio.com  > Specifications.
  

 *Inputs/Outputs*
  Inputs (rear)USB 2.0 type A “OTG” Socket
 (with iPurifier® technology built-in)Compatible with computers (Apple/Win/Linux), iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad and Android Devices, camera kit or USB-OTG cable required. (Full USB3.0 port compatible) Intelligent SPDIF® Coaxial3 Way combo SPDIF port (Coaxial In/Out; Optical In); Up to 192kHz PCM SPDIF Optical 
  
 For example, with A&K or HD Streamers that output an optical signal, take a look at this Connection Diagram:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/astell-kern/
  
 and
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/hd-streaming/
  
 Hope this clairfies.


----------



## iFi audio

jexby said:


> makes some sense if you have HD800 that you can't get/extract any more soundstage by enabling 3D, and it could be highly variable to headphone pairing.
> 
> note:  the 3D effect on iCan IS different (in some ways) than on iDSD micro.
> IIRC some have said the iCAN 3D is more hm... strong?/intense/noticeable? than iDSD micro's implementation.
> ...


 
  
 Hi
  
 - iCAN and iDSD both have the same 3D technology in the sense that they are Analogue Signal Processing, not Digital Signal Processing.
   
The benefit is that the Bit-Perfect is maintained.

  
 BUT
  
 - iCAN has * and *** settings. The iDSD on/off which is **.
  
 Same goes for XBass.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I own the HD800 and the micro iDSD with 3D (crossfeed) enabled its a *great *improvement of the soundstage! I'm listening only classical music. Since then I'll never disabled again the 3D from the iDSD because with, my classical music is more realistic. I attend per month 3 up to 4 classical concerts and it's a similar "feeling" now at home with HD800 and the iDSD crossfeed enabled, thanks iFi.


----------



## orlando1

Hello;
  
 You are absolutely right. There is only one micro iDSD.
 After looking at iFi's on-line page.
  
 The page I was looking at is for one of iFi's distributors named Sight+Sound Gallery.
  
 Here is the link for the page I was looking at under Sight+Sound Gallery  --> *Sight+Sound Gallery*
 805 Peachtree Street
 Atlanta GA, 30309
  
 Link   --->   http://shop.sightandsoundgallery.com/ifi-s/1938.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=1938&show=10&page=2
  
 I have not contacted them yet, but I will do that this coming Monday the 12th of January 2015. It looks like
 an obvious mistake on their part.
  
 Thanks to everybody who helped me with this issue . . . .
  
 Prosperous New Year . . . . ! ! !


----------



## orlando1

You are absolutely correct. There is only one micro iDSD:
  
 The place I was looking at was one iFi distributor called --> Sight+Sound Gallery out of Atlanta, GA
  
 Thank you for your help ! ! !


----------



## Triodemode

loquah said:


> Hi all, I currently have the iDAC and iCAN, but I'm keen to get an iDSD. A fellow enthusiast and Head-Fier mentioned that the soundstage from the iDSD micro wasn't as big as he expected (lacking depth), but acknowledged that it may have been the earphones he was using.
> Can you please tell me if the DAC alone and DAC+amp of the iDSD create a spacious soundstage? Is the inbuilt amp a limiting factor in this?
> Thanks!


 
 I responded to another poster regarding this question a few pages back though will repeat it here.  "I do not own an iCAN myself, though several comments throughout this thread and elsewhere have indicated that the iCAN amp does indeed sound better.  This makes sense as the iCAN utilizes a beautifully designed discrete class A topology, while the iDSD micro contains more conventional chip based circuitry.  I have read that the Xbass equalization curve is a little more pronounced in the iCAN as well." 
  
 I personally do experience a slightly bigger and more cohesive sound when connecting the iDSD line out jacks (direct mode) to an external class A headphone amp as compared to the iDSD's built in amp.  That being said, the DAC section in the iDSD micro is truly exceptional, and as a one box solution there is no comparison anywhere near this price. 
  
 If you pick up the iDSD micro I am sure many here would enjoy hearing your results comparing the iCAN to the built in headphone amp of the iDSD micro.


----------



## SonicWarrior

sonicwarrior said:


> Folks,
> 
> My micro idsd arrived today and I am almost at the 24hour mark to complete the initial charge. I have a Macbook pro which will be my main source for listening.
> 
> ...


 

 I just figured out why the light is white even though I play 320 kbps or 256 kbps MP3. In the Audio MIDI setup in my mac (Applications>Utilities), under the Audio Devices, IFI AMR format is defaulted to 768KHz and hence it is always white. If I manually change the frequency here, the colour in micro changes accordingly.
  Not sure if I have to leave as it is.
  
 Now to my other request, can some Mac users suggest good software for audio playback. I use default itunes and VLC in Mac but not sure if it will do justice to micro. I just don't want any software to compromise hardware capabilities.
  
 I am seeing quite a few mentions about JRiver. Is it good?
  
 Thanks


----------



## jimmypowder

sonicwarrior said:


> I just figured out why the light is white even though I play 320 kbps or 256 kbps MP3. In the Audio MIDI setup in my mac (Applications>Utilities), under the Audio Devices, IFI AMR format is defaulted to 768KHz and hence it is always white. If I manually change the frequency here, the colour in micro changes accordingly.
> 
> Not sure if I have to leave as it is.
> 
> ...



IMHO , Audirvana+ is best on a Mac . Jriver on Windows . For playing music services , Amarra SQ.


----------



## SonicWarrior

jimmypowder said:


> IMHO , Audirvana+ is best on a Mac . Jriver on Windows . For playing music services , Amarra SQ.


 

 Thank you, jimmypowder. I really appreciate it.


----------



## tf1216

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Small correction. The micro iDSD has an optical input.
> 
> ...




I forgot all about the optical adapter. Thank you for correcting me iFi.


----------



## Franatic

h1f1add1cted said:


> I own the HD800 and the micro iDSD with 3D (crossfeed) enabled its a *great *improvement of the soundstage! I'm listening only classical music. Since then I'll never disabled again the 3D from the iDSD because with, my classical music is more realistic. I attend per month 3 up to 4 classical concerts and it's a similar "feeling" now at home with HD800 and the iDSD crossfeed enabled, thanks iFi.


 

 Yes, that 3D effect is awesome. It especially works for classical orchestral or any recordings where you want BIG sound. In my speaker setup it expands the sound 'til it's bigger than the room. You can close your eyes and picture a big hall for your concert.......it doesn't work for all recordings, maybe I use it 50/50. When it doesn't work it can make your audio sound hollow or echoey.
  
 I have recently become a convert to upsampling my PCM. It seems to increase resonance, imaging and details. I upsample in Jriver as follows
 44, 88 & 176 converts to 352 khz
 48, 96 & 192 converts to 384 khz
 This formula uses factors of 2, 4 & 8 and satisfies the mathematician in my head. It also seems to sound better, especially upsampling 44 to 352 instead of 384.
 I play all files in native format and never convert. The dsd I play as is.
  
 The more I use the idsd micro and tweak my settings, the more I love this device. The sound quality is just amazing.


----------



## iFi audio

sonicwarrior said:


> Under the Audio Devices, IFI AMR format is defaulted to 768KHz and hence it is always white. If I manually change the frequency here, the colour in micro changes accordingly.
> Not sure if I have to leave as it is.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 OS X defaults automatically to the highest sample rate which is why you see the "white light".
  
 You have two options:
  
 1) Manually change the Sampling Rate in iTunes (or whichever program you use) each time you play the file to match the Sample Rate with the file.
  
 Or
  
 2) Use a Non-OS X program such as Audirvana or JRMC which auto selects the native Sample rate each and every time.
  
 You can leave it as it is but certeris paribus, Bit-Perfect is our preferred option for the best sonics.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> I own the HD800 and the micro iDSD with 3D (crossfeed) enabled its a *great *improvement of the soundstage! I'm listening only classical music. Since then I'll never disabled again the 3D from the iDSD because with, my classical music is more realistic. I attend per month 3 up to 4 classical concerts and it's a similar "feeling" now at home with HD800 and the iDSD crossfeed enabled, thanks iFi.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 It is a little more than Crossfeed in the Analogue Domain. Otherwise "artificial" solutions like the "Crossfeed" DSP setting in JRMC would sound very similar and they don't.
  
 We can't give out the secret sauce but what we can give out is here:
  
  
*3D Holographic for Headphones*
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/3DHolographic.pdf
  
  
*3D Holographic for Speakers*
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/iTubeTechpaper2_3DHolographic.pdf


----------



## iFi audio

tf1216 said:


> I forgot all about the optical adapter. Thank you for correcting me iFi.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 No problems.
  
 If one does not use a feature/article, one tends to forget.
  
 Happens to us too.


----------



## EVOLVIST

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> - iCAN and iDSD both have the same 3D technology in the sense that they are Analogue Signal Processing, not Digital Signal Processing.
> 
> ...


 

 Very Interesting. Since I haven't gotten my iDSD charged yet (should be getting the Orico charger tomorrow ) would the XBass on the iDSD be comparable to the lowest XBass setting on iCAN, the highest, or somewhere in between?  I don't know if that's an easy question to quantify, but I thought I would ask anyway, because it's killing me not being able to run my iDSD yet! Haha!


----------



## iFi audio

evolvist said:


> Very Interesting. Since I haven't gotten my iDSD charged yet (should be getting the Orico charger tomorrow ) would the XBass on the iDSD be comparable to the lowest XBass setting on iCAN, the highest, or somewhere in between?  I don't know if that's an easy question to quantify, but I thought I would ask anyway, because it's killing me not being able to run my iDSD yet! Haha!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The 3D Holographic and the XBass on the micro iDSD is on/off (for other people who dont have acces to the micro iDSD).
  
 Whereas on the iCAN it is Off / * / ***
  
 The micro iDSD's 3D and XBass **
  
   
From customer reports, almost all hear a difference. Some report it as small, some report it as significant. There are many other variables to factor in.

  
 In the main, for our personal listening just about all our staff use 3D Holographic (+90%) and most use XBass (+70%).
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## OPTiK

This looks like an interesting amp. Does anyone have impressions when paired with JH16 (non-freq)? Currently looking to upgrade from my odac/o2amp, any comparisons against my current amp/dac would be appreciated as well.


----------



## SonicWarrior

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> OS X defaults automatically to the highest sample rate which is why you see the "white light".
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you, IFI. You folks are the best


----------



## likearake

Hi, new Micro owner here...
  
 Is engaging the IEMatch settings going to degrade quality on larger headphones?
  
 I find with HD650s and LCD2.2s in a quiet room the volume is already quite loud on the ECO / IEMatch off settings by the time the channel imbalance is rectified.
  
 The most sensitive IEMatch setting doesn't seem to sound as good but not sure if this is just my imagination... Any details?


----------



## Triodemode

likearake said:


> Hi, new Micro owner here...
> 
> Is engaging the IEMatch settings going to degrade quality on larger headphones?
> 
> ...


 

 Where is the volume control notch located when the channel imbalance ends?  What input are you using?  With my HD650's the channel imbalance stops just before the 10 o'clock position, With ECO/IEMatch off, normal listening volume is between 11 to 12 o'clock.  Others I have read here experience this similar situation when using these headphones. If you are using the analog input with a hot source, this may cause an overly loud level before the volume control is past the imbalance point.
  
 If your volume control still has imbalance issues at the 11 o'clock position, I would contact iFi as you may have a defective potentiometer.


----------



## likearake

triodemode said:


> Where is the volume control notch located when the channel imbalance ends?  What input are you using?  With my HD650's the channel imbalance stops just before the 10 o'clock position, With ECO/IEMatch off, normal listening volume is between 11 to 12 o'clock.  Others I have read here experience this similar situation when using these headphones. If you are using the analog input with a hot source, this may cause an overly loud level before the volume control is past the imbalance point.
> 
> If your volume control still has imbalance issues at the 11 o'clock position, I would contact iFi as you may have a defective potentiometer.


 
  
 I will test further tonight but 10 o'clock might be about right for when the channel imbalance stops, but this can already be quite loud for me using digital USB and optical inputs on some music in the ECO / IEMatch off setting.
  
 I am not surprised that my comfortable levels are a bit lower than others, haha. But if 10'o'clock is normal for volume imbalance to end then I may have to use the IEM Match settings, so curious if these would affect sound quality as well as volume?


----------



## Triodemode

likearake said:


> I will test further tonight but 10 o'clock might be about right for when the channel imbalance stops, but this can already be quite loud for me using digital USB and optical inputs on some music in the ECO / IEMatch off setting.
> 
> I am not surprised that my comfortable levels are a bit lower than others, haha. But if 10'o'clock is normal for volume imbalance to end then I may have to use the IEM Match settings, so curious if these would affect sound quality as well as volume?


 

 Not sure regarding sound quality loss as I never engage the IEM settings, though would think the type of headphone used with it on should be irrelevant.  It is recommended to only use IEM when in ECO mode, otherwise you are just wasting power, ifi uses the great analogy of pressing the accelerator with the brakes on.
  
 I would think that needing to listen at such low levels your hearing must be hypersensitive (lucky you).


----------



## osiris1

likearake said:


> Hi, new Micro owner here...
> 
> Is engaging the IEMatch settings going to degrade quality on larger headphones?
> 
> ...


 
 this was discussed in the earlier pages. iFi provided an explanation for the imbalance at lower volumes. 
  
 basically, you can switch the IEMatch to the next position and turn your volume knob higher than 10 o'clock to bring balance back to the 'Force'.


----------



## likearake

osiris1 said:


> this was discussed in the earlier pages. iFi provided an explanation for the imbalance at lower volumes.
> 
> basically, you can switch the IEMatch to the next position and turn your volume knob higher than 10 o'clock to bring balance back to the 'Force'.


 
  
 Oh thanks, I have found the post now recommending that volume is kept above 12 o'clock using the volume and IEMatch settings.
  
 However I am still not certain whether more is at work here. The technical details note that IEMatch employs a circuit to reduce hiss on IEMs, while another IFI post shows that the IEMatch settings are affecting output impedence. This makes me think that it is more than just a simple change in volume?


----------



## iFi audio

likearake said:


> Hi, new Micro owner here...
> 
> Is engaging the IEMatch settings going to degrade quality on larger headphones?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 iEMatch is primarily for IEMs.
  
 You have some nice headphones.
  
 Probably try "Power mode: Normal" with "iEMatch: Ultra". Try this.
  
 This reduces gain. Not for headphones but may occur with music that exceptionally quiet/well-recorded.
  
 Yes, the level will be lower which may seem the SQ has gone down but if cranked back up, then there is less resistance in the volume control then dynamics should be better. FWIW, it is tricky to level-match to do a comparison.
  
 The Sennhesier IE-800 is one of the most sensitive at 143dB/v and the HE-6 is least sensitive at 83dB/w (manufacturer specs but you get the idea).
  
 Hence one needs to try the different power modes and iEMatch to suit their music (audiophile, good quality usually is queiter and rock/pop usually louder).

Caution:
 We have only come across one or two customers with iEMs using "Turbo" from the off.
  
 We STRONGLY advise against this as you are putting 4,000MW into some very nice/expensive IEMs that are usually designed for 15mW from an iPhone!


----------



## BillsonChang007

ifi audio said:


> Caution:
> We have only come across one or two customers with iEMs using "Turbo" from the off!
> 
> We STRONGLY advise against this as you are putting 4,000MW into some very nice/expensive IEMs that are usually designed for 15mW from an iPhone!


 
 and it's like stepping on the acceleration pedal while holding break. I remember your team said it last time a few pages ago haha


----------



## fleemur12

loquah said:


> Hi all, I currently have the iDAC and iCAN, but I'm keen to get an iDSD. A fellow enthusiast and Head-Fier mentioned that the soundstage from the iDSD micro wasn't as big as he expected (lacking depth), but acknowledged that it may have been the earphones he was using.
> Can you please tell me if the DAC alone and DAC+amp of the iDSD create a spacious soundstage? Is the inbuilt amp a limiting factor in this?
> Thanks!


 

 Hi Loquah,
  
 I have the iDSD and the iUSBPower and have the iCAN on it's way for delivery tomorrow, so I can give you my personal feedback about using the IDSD and iCAN together in the same rig within a day or two.


----------



## Loquah

Thanks fleemur. I'll look forward to it.


----------



## earfonia

fleemur12 said:


> Hi Loquah,
> 
> I have the iDSD and the iUSBPower and have the iCAN on it's way for delivery tomorrow, so I can give you my personal feedback about using the IDSD and iCAN together in the same rig within a day or two.


 
  
 I'm looking forward to your impression as well.
 Thanks!


----------



## Triodemode

fleemur12 said:


> Hi Loquah,
> 
> I have the iDSD and the iUSBPower and have the iCAN on it's way for delivery tomorrow, so I can give you my personal feedback about using the IDSD and iCAN together in the same rig within a day or two.


 

 +1...  I am also curious on how the iDSD's built in headphone amp compares to the iCAN.  Just a reminder, make sure to select direct mode on the bottom of the iDSD when connecting it's RCA outputs to the iCAN, as it disables the preamp and any speaker optimized 3D or Xbass processing.


----------



## Esprit

ifi audio said:


> 1) Manually change the Sampling Rate in iTunes (or whichever program you use) each time you play the file to match the Sample Rate with the file.


 
 Isn't enough: he has to close iTunes, change the sample rate in MIDI setup, reopen iTunes.
 This every time you want to play a song with a different sample rate different from the previous...
 Nowadays no one uses iTunes because the above procedure is absurd


----------



## fleemur12

triodemode said:


> +1...  I am also curious on how the iDSD's built in headphone amp compares to the iCAN.  Just a reminder, make sure to select direct mode on the bottom of the iDSD when connecting it's RCA outputs to the iCAN, as it disables the preamp and any speaker optimized 3D or Xbass processing.


 

 Thanks for the advice Triodemode! 
  
 I believe the unit needs sufficient burn-in time to reach it's peak performance, but I will give my initial impressions with the disclaimer that they're based on a brand-new unit.


----------



## rickyleelee

triodemode said:


> +1...  I am also curious on how the iDSD's built in headphone amp compares to the iCAN.  Just a reminder, make sure to select direct mode on the bottom of the iDSD when connecting it's RCA outputs to the iCAN, as it disables the preamp and any speaker optimized 3D or Xbass processing.


 
  
Good instructions. I have the iTube here and the iDSD+iTube+iCan combo kicked my prev tube amp into the weeds. I think I need the EL-8 to go with my stack (hope my wifey is not reading this post lol) .
yes the iCan is a step up but the iTube is another step up AGAIN and for just about any setup out there. It isnt tubey for tubey's sake. It just gives it that extra does of harmonics "rightness" (not richness) that I crave.


----------



## fleemur12

rickyleelee said:


> Good instructions. I have the iTube here and the iDSD+iTube+iCan combo kicked my prev tube amp into the weeds. I think I need the EL-8 to go with my stack (hope my wifey is not reading this post lol) .
> yes the iCan is a step up but the iTube is another step up AGAIN and for just about any setup out there. It isnt tubey for tubey's sake. It just gives it that extra does of harmonics "rightness" (not richness) that I crave.


 

 Audeze headphones for $699?!?  I bet there are a lot of people salivating for the release of the EL-8s.  I just wish that a $700 price point was affordable to me personally and not just compared to Audeze's other headphones.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So I take it you feel the iTube is a worthwhile addition to the iFi stack even with headphones?  That's good to know.  I think I was under the (wrong) impression that the iTube is made for speakers and the iCan is made for headphones b/c the 3DHS in the iTube is tailored for modifying speakers, whereas the 3DHS in the iCan is tailored for headphones.  I like ClieOS's analogy (in Head Gear) that adding the iTube is "like going from HD to SD signal".


----------



## EVOLVIST

fleemur12 said:


> Audeze headphones for $699?!?  I bet there are a lot of people salivating for the release of the EL-8s.  I just wish that a $700 price point was affordable to me personally and not just compared to Audeze's other headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So far my experience with the iTube has been excellent. It has greatly depended on what I listen to, and all of my music I listen through HD800s. To me the iTube does wonders for older recordings, from the 50s and 60s.
  
 You can also look at it another way: Do a search for tube buffers online and look at their prices. They are big bucks! To my ears, at least, since I listen through headphones, anything more than about two tubes has always been overkill to me (depending on what kind of tubes, that is); still, as a general rule, unless one has a tin ear, just a small amount of tubes in your signal can be a private joy.
  
 Over speakers and/or in a phono stage is another thing, when lots of big glowing tubes might be the cats meow. But I believe I'm pretty good with this iTube model, without spending a lot of cash on what I don't even need.


----------



## ClieOS

fleemur12 said:


> ...
> 
> So I take it you feel the iTube is a worthwhile addition to the iFi stack even with headphones?  That's good to know.  I think I was under the (wrong) impression that the iTube is made for speakers and the iCan is made for headphones b/c the 3DHS in the iTube is tailored for modifying speakers, whereas the 3DHS in the iCan is tailored for headphones. * I like ClieOS's analogy (in Head Gear) that adding the iTube is "like going from HD to SD signal". *


 
  
 Pretty sure I said the opposite.


----------



## rebeljeff

Hi all, I'm just trying to clear up one thing with this product.  As I understand it... the iDSD Micro will ONLY work with my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 if playing audio through the UAPP app... Is that correct?? Meaning I cannot use this product at all with streaming services (TIDAL, Spotify etc) on my android phone??  I just ordered the iDSD this morning... but I may have jumped the gun here as this is pretty much a deal breaker for me.


----------



## jimmypowder

rebeljeff said:


> Hi all, I'm just trying to clear up one thing with this product.  As I understand it... the iDSD Micro will ONLY work with my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 if playing audio through the UAPP app... Is that correct?? Meaning I cannot use this product at all with streaming services (TIDAL, Spotify etc) on my android phone??  I just ordered the iDSD this morning... but I may have jumped the gun here as this is pretty much a deal breaker for me.



Yes that is correct . I have the understanding that when Android Lollipop software comes out , we will get the use of 
USB dacs without UAPP . Please someone correct me if I'm wrong here .


----------



## likearake

ifi audio said:


> Probably try "Power mode: Normal" with "iEMatch: Ultra". Try this.


 
  
 Thanks for the response! You are right, normal with IEMatch ultra does sound very good, preferable to Eco mode with my headphones which I thought you were meant to use before engaging IEMatch.
  
 On a general note, the Micro certainly does have an enjoyable sound signature with my LCD-2.2 and HD650s! Really enjoying the crossfeed on some recordings too, which I had never had on any of my other gear.


----------



## ClieOS

jimmypowder said:


> Yes that is correct . I have the understanding that when Android Lollipop software comes out , we will get the use of
> USB dacs without UAPP . Please someone correct me if I'm wrong here .


 
  
 Lolipop promises 24/96 decoding, which is full USB Audio Class 1 support. However, you'll need USB Audio Class 2 for over 24/96 and there isn't any mentioning of asynchronous mode either. My guess is, you still need UAPP.


----------



## diamondears

likearake said:


> Thanks for the response! You are right, normal with IEMatch ultra does sound very good, preferable to Eco mode with my headphones which I thought you were meant to use before engaging IEMatch.
> 
> On a general note, the Micro certainly does have an enjoyable sound signature with my LCD-2.2 and HD650s! Really enjoying the crossfeed on some recordings too, which I had never had on any of my other gear.



+1. Bit-perfect digital filter brings out all the bass note extracting ability of the LCD-2.2 too.


----------



## fleemur12

clieos said:


> Pretty sure I said the opposite.


 

 You certainly did ClieOS, and please accept my apologies for misquoting you.  As a new member here, I'm quite embarrassed.  My only excuse is that I've been sleep deprived the last couple of days, and I tend to invert concepts and ideas when I'm overtired.  You clearly said - and I thought I was saying - that switching from iTube + iCan to just the iCan is analogous to switching from an HD to an SD TV signal.


----------



## iFi audio

rebeljeff said:


> Hi all, I'm just trying to clear up one thing with this product.  As I understand it... the iDSD Micro will ONLY work with my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 if playing audio through the UAPP app... Is that correct?? Meaning I cannot use this product at all with streaming services (TIDAL, Spotify etc) on my android phone??  I just ordered the iDSD this morning... but I may have jumped the gun here as this is pretty much a deal breaker for me.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As much as we would like another customer to purchase a micro iDSD, in your case, we advise you to return it unopened for a full refund.
  
 This is because not being able to do what you wish with the Samsung is likely to upset you.
  
  
This is our Android of choice
 On the Android platform, we recommend the Sony Z2 or Z3 (phone or tablet; both can play audio via an external USB).
  

  
 On the Sony Z2 or Sony - Spotify, Tidal, Hi-Res Walkman*, UAPP apps etc. all work very smooooothly and this is how we demo with the mico iDSD (and nano iDSD and Retro# too).
  
  
* Hi-Res Walkman app plays _HD_ to 192k and DSD, albeit converting DSD to PCM 176 (so the LED on the micro iDSD says PCM when DSD is being played). 
# The Sony Z2 with Tidal via aptX Bluetooth on the Retro and even playing _HD_ material via Walkman both sound pretty darn nice.


----------



## maricius

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> As much as we would like another customer to purchase a micro iDSD, in your case, we advise you to return it unopened for a full refund.
> 
> This is because not being able to do what you wish with the Samsung is likely to upset you.


 
  Good guy iFi


----------



## ImperialBlade

iFi Audio Team,
  
 If there is not already a list of known of approved devices that the micro iDSD works with, maybe there could be one? Perhaps posted on your webite?
 I am in the same boat as rebeljeff, I own a OnePlue One device and it looks like the micro iDSD work work properly with it.
  
 I am will to be there are other forum members who havewondered the same thing.
  
 Thanks in advance and thanks for a great product!
  
 Regards,
  
 Eric


----------



## ClieOS

fleemur12 said:


> You certainly did ClieOS, and please accept my apologies for misquoting you.  As a new member here, I'm quite embarrassed.  My only excuse is that I've been sleep deprived the last couple of days, and I tend to invert concepts and ideas when I'm overtired.  You clearly said - and I thought I was saying - that switching from iTube + iCan to just the iCan is analogous to switching from an HD to an SD TV signal.


 
  
 Don't worry about it. Cheer.


----------



## iFi audio

imperialblade said:


> iFi Audio Team,
> 
> If there is not already a list of known of approved devices that the micro iDSD works with, maybe there could be one? Perhaps posted on your webite?
> I am in the same boat as rebeljeff, I own a OnePlue One device and it looks like the micro iDSD work work properly with it.
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
*Background*
 Android is not a "monolithic" Operating system like Windows, OSX and iOS. It is more like a Meccano-Erector set of parts.
  
 What is included in the final unit depends on hardware and what the company decided to included of the software.
  
 There are waaaay too many devices to test.
  
 UAPP maintains a list of devices known to work with their software, but likely non of the devices in this list work for System Audio, only via UAPP.
  
 As far as we know (as we cannot test every existing and new product out there), currently the Sony XPERIA Z2 and Z3 range (Phones of all sizes and tablets) are the only Android devices that support sending the System Audio (including app's like Spotify and Tidal) to a USB Audio Class 2.0 DAC and for Z2 only since a few months back when a new version system software became available. The original XPERIA Z series does not support this (yet?).
  
 So, going back to the OP, the Sony is the one for his needs (at this moment in time).
  
  
*More in-depth*
On the support ticket system, we send out an Android Setup Guide which reads likes this:
  

Android device that can run Android 4.1 or above
USB Host mode has been enabled by the Android manufacturer
Android device running Android Open Accessory (AOA) protocol version 2.0

 
These two resources are very useful and are being constantly updated.
  
*For a list of Android devices supported:*
1. http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/
 This is updated on almost a daily basis. Davy Wentzler is the main guy behind eXtream software development.
  
2. http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1140

If it conforms to the above specifications, then it will work with the nano iDSD or any other USB Audio Class 2.0 compatible DAC for that matter.

We prefer USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) or Hi-Res Walkman app (Sony only of course).

Our test platform for Androids consists of:
-Sony Xperia Z Ultra / Z2 phone / Z2 tablet (Z3 has slightly proessor so is virtually identical to the Z2)
-USB Audio Player Pro Software/Hi-Res Walkman app (which converts DSD/PCM176)
-Generic OTG adapter
-several Kingston Class 10 64G micro SDHC Card's filled with DSD, DSD128, DSD256 and Hi-Rez PCM
-iDSD nano or iDSD micro (with necessary adapters)
-Noise Cancelling travel headphones (mobile)
-Fostex T(L)-50RP magnetic planar Headphones

The Z-series have powerful CPUs to keep and enough internal storage that the SD Card can be used strictly as Music (or Video) storage.
  
The latest version (1.4.7) plays DSD (up to DSD256 on iDSD micro/nano) stable and of course any PCM file we have been throwing at it, as long as they are stored on Class 10 SDHC cards.

The latest version of UAPP also supports playing music from Network drives, however on wireless networks going for Hi-Rez quickly chokes on a lack of network bandwidth.
  
 The main headache is that there are far too many Android models out there to keep track of and the situation is changing almost on a daily basis.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Hello iFi Team,
  
 Thanks for the reply! Looks like my OnePlus One will work when I use the OTG cable, sweet!
  
 Thanks again!
  
 Regards,
  
 Eric


----------



## ultraman

HibyMusic and UAPP is working on my OnePlus One but Spotify is not.
  
 Oneplus--OTG--IDSD


----------



## thisisvv

Hi all,
  
 getting this device on saturday, wanted to ask has anyone used this with LCD-3...., currently i am using a adcom dac with ray samuels Raptor amplifier with lcd-3...was wondering hows the ifi idsd as an amp is...i know it is a great dac what i have heard...
  
 on sme note has anyone used hqplayer with this device...
  
 V


----------



## Triodemode

thisisvv said:


> Hi all,
> 
> getting this device on saturday, wanted to ask has anyone used this with LCD-3...., currently i am using a adcom dac with ray samuels Raptor amplifier with lcd-3...was wondering hows the ifi idsd as an amp is...i know it is a great dac what i have heard...
> 
> ...


 

 Just read reviews and product literature regarding your Ray Samuels Raptor.  The headphone amp in the iDSD is not bad for utilizing 10 year old conventional chip based circuitry however, the Raptor (at least from a design standpoint) is in a completely different league.  That being said, I would bet the fantastic DAC section in the iDSD micro will sound better than that older Adcom piece.


----------



## thisisvv

triodemode said:


> Just read reviews and product literature regarding your Ray Samuels Raptor.  The headphone amp in the iDSD is not bad for utilizing 10 year old conventional chip based circuitry however, the Raptor (at least from a design standpoint) is in a completely different league.  That being said, I would bet the fantastic DAC section in the iDSD micro will sound better than that older Adcom piece.


 

 No doubt about DAC, was trying to know the AMP side of it....
  
 V


----------



## BillsonChang007

As a STANDALONE amp with the Micro iDSD, the amp is very powerful and shouldnt be a problem driving your Audeze. I am not sure how does Audeze sound but the Micro iDSD's amp section is more on the lean side. Other than that, it is transparent, and clean sounding amp.


----------



## fleemur12

thisisvv, my guess would be that you will notice a difference using the micro iDSD vis–à–vis it's DAC compared to using an older Adcom DAC unit, but that isn't your question. 
  
 As a headphone amp, the iDSD micro is an amazing unit and it blows the doors off of some more expensive units out there.  The real strength of the iDSDs amp is it's incredible versatility.  It can basically drive any set of cans out there, from the most power-hungry to the most frugal.  This is because it has the ability to provide up to 1560 mW of continuous power (4,000 mW peak) plus it is incredibly adjustable and can be tailor-fit.  I agree with BillsonChang007 that the iDSD micro will have no problems driving your LCD-3s.  While it may run a little lean sonically, it may not be noticeable to you, as my understanding is the Raptor is on the lean side as well, at least compared to other tube amps. 
  
 I have never had the pleasure of listening to the Emmeline II Raptor or anything made by Ray Samuels Audio, so I'm going to base my opinion on what I've read about the Raptor and on my personal experience with the iDSD.  I would therefore take it with a grain of salt.  You have been forewarned! 
  
 The two units seem to have the ability to provide enough power to drive power-hungry cans AND both units apparently have very low noise floors.  Based on this, I think that the iDSD micro will be quite similar to the Raptor as an amp in terms of their ability to drive the LCD-3s.  (On a side note, I can attest to the IDSD having a low noise floor, at least to my ears and compared to one other DAC/amp.  The first thing I noticed about the iDSD (compared to my Teac UD-501) is that it had no detectable floor noise.  It still blows me away weeks later.  Since I've never heard the Raptor, however, I cannot make any statement on how it compares to the iDSD.) 
  
 All this being said, you are going to notice a difference when you add the iDSD because you will be able to make more adjustments to the characteristics of the amp.  Plus, the DAC components of the iDSD are going to be technically more advanced than those found in the Adcom.  Incidentally, which Adcom DAC do you have?  Generally, the older the unit, the greater the advance in technology between the units will exist, so if you're using a GDA-600, prepare to hear a difference.  I'm very interested in hearing your feedback after you've listened to the iDSD. 
  
 Incidentally, I still have an Adcom GTP-350 preamp/tuner and GFA-535II amp driving a pair of Paradigm 5se MKIIs I bought about 21 years ago.  It's not a bad-sounding set-up for the money.


----------



## fleemur12

A quick update.  I've been listening to my iCan micro in my iFi stack for a couple of days now, and the increase in soundstage and sonic detail is remarkable.  I eventually need to get some audio analysis software to support my observations.  I'm done writing tonight between work, eBay and this board, so I'm keeping this short and I'll see if I have permission to post pics yet. 
  
  

  

  

  

  

  
 A pic of my previous DAC -


----------



## BillsonChang007

That is one tidy desktop set up!


----------



## Triodemode

fleemur12 said:


> thisisvv, my guess would be that you will notice a difference using the micro iDSD vis–à–vis it's DAC compared to using an older Adcom DAC unit, but that isn't your question.
> 
> As a headphone amp, the iDSD micro is an amazing unit and it blows the doors off of some more expensive units out there.  The real strength of the iDSDs amp is it's incredible versatility.  It can basically drive any set of cans out there, from the most power-hungry to the most frugal.  This is because it has the ability to provide up to 1560 mW of continuous power (4,000 mW peak) plus it is incredibly adjustable and can be tailor-fit.  I agree with BillsonChang007 that the iDSD micro will have no problems driving your LCD-3s.  While it may run a little lean sonically, it may not be noticeable to you, as my understanding is the Raptor is on the lean side as well, at least compared to other tube amps.
> 
> ...


 
 The reason your setup sounds so remarkable is due to you listening through the iCAN and not the iDSD's built in headphone amp...  The iDSD headphone section uses a chip that has been on the market for 10 years.  Trying to make comparisons between this and the Ray Samuels Raptor tube amplifier is IMO ridiculous.
  
 It has been well established that to fully exploit the sonic attributes of the iDSD DAC section, an exteranl amplifier needs to be used.  There are several other portable headphone amplifiers that utilize class A topology with excellent results.  My feeling is that instead of having a power level swith (eco-normal-turbo), it would have been more sonically advantageuos to utilize discrete components in the headphone amp, and have this switch change between class A and A/B operation, this would give the option (with more sensitive headphones and IEMs in Class A) to better convey more of the excellent DAC's sound when using the unit as a single box solution.
  
 I would happily forgo output power/battery life and exclude a few power hungry headphones, to have a better sonically matched DAC and headphone section when using the iDSD micro as a one box portable. Does anybody even need to utiizle turbo mode?  My power hungry Beyerdynamic 600 ohm DT880's get plenty loud in normal mode. Am I the only one who holds this opinion?
  
 Again, even in it's current configuration as a one box solution the iDSD is without peer however, I think the headphone amplifier could could have been better implemented to sonically match the DAC.


----------



## semeniub

triodemode said:


> The reason your setup sounds so remarkable is due to you listening through the iCAN and not the iDSD's built in headphone amp...  The iDSD headphone section uses a chip that has been on the market for 10 years.  Trying to make comparisons between this and the Ray Samuels Raptor tube amplifier is IMO ridiculous.
> 
> It has been well established that to fully exploit the sonic attributes of the iDSD DAC section, an exteranl amplifier needs to be used.  There are several other portable headphone amplifiers that utilize class A topology with excellent results.  My feeling is that instead of having a power level swith (eco-normal-turbo), it would have been more sonically advantageuos to utilize discrete components in the headphone amp, and have this switch change between class A and A/B operation, this would give the option (with more sensitive headphones and IEMs in Class A) to better convey more of the excellent DAC's sound when using the unit as a single box solution.
> 
> ...


 

 Hmmm - it sounds like you've described a perfect follow up product for iFi to work on...
  
 iFi was clearly trying to make the Micro iDSD as accessible to as many types of users as possible. Fortunately, as you say, it does partner extremely nicely as a standalone DAC feeding into better quality amps if that's what you are looking for. I've tried it together with the iCAN+iTube, NOS tube amps and the Clones Audio amps and I can't imagine ever needing to pay more for a better sounding DAC for my purposes.


----------



## GradoSound

evolvist said:


> Over speakers and/or in a phono stage is another thing, when lots of big glowing tubes might be the cats meow. But I believe I'm pretty good with this iTube model, without spending a lot of cash on what I don't even need.


 
  
 One of the best kept secrets in HT setups (to get a decent stereo audio from HT) is to get an AVR with pre-outs and a good 2ch power amp to drive L/R speakers then put iTube between AVR and power amp. I do this with an Onkyo 818 and Rotel 1552 Mk2 and the result is amazing. It sounds like you are listening to a $$$$$ gear.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> The reason your setup sounds so remarkable is due to you listening through the iCAN and not the iDSD's built in headphone amp...  The iDSD headphone section uses a chip that has been on the market for 10 years....


 
  
 Err, before we go too far, you should know that the same chip is used in both iCAN and iDSD headphone output stage. 10 years is really nothing as new chip is usually slow to be adopted by the industry. Some opamp, like OPA627, easy double the time and yet still well regarded among user and manufacturer. In fact, the DSD1793 in iDSD is well over 10 years too. At the end of the day, it is more about the implementation (and its limitation no less) than everything else.


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> The reason your setup sounds so remarkable is due to you listening through the iCAN and not the iDSD's built in headphone amp...  The iDSD headphone section uses a chip that has been on the market for 10 years.  Trying to make comparisons between this and the Ray Samuels Raptor tube amplifier is IMO ridiculous.
> 
> It has been well established that to fully exploit the sonic attributes of the iDSD DAC section, an exteranl amplifier needs to be used.  There are several other portable headphone amplifiers that utilize class A topology with excellent results.  My feeling is that instead of having a power level swith (eco-normal-turbo), it would have been more sonically advantageuos to utilize discrete components in the headphone amp, and have this switch change between class A and A/B operation, this would give the option (with more sensitive headphones and IEMs in Class A) to better convey more of the excellent DAC's sound when using the unit as a single box solution.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We make our design choices strictly on sound quality. We really do.
  
 It is our job to sift through the good stuff and not so good stuff.  If it is old or new, we dont mind, so long as it delivers sonically.
  
 The Burr-Brown we use in the nano, micro and upcoming Pro series is +12 years old! But we insist on using it even over above the "newer and better" chipsets.
  
 This is before we discuss NOS valves used in the iTube and AMR components.
  
  
 Last but not least, Class A on USB/battery is just not going to happen.  As much as we would like it (more so than the next guy) it is just not possible.


----------



## Triodemode

semeniub said:


> Hmmm - it sounds like you've described a perfect follow up product for iFi to work on...
> 
> iFi was clearly trying to make the Micro iDSD as accessible to as many types of users as possible. Fortunately, as you say, it does partner extremely nicely as a standalone DAC feeding into better quality amps if that's what you are looking for. I've tried it together with the iCAN+iTube, NOS tube amps and the Clones Audio amps and I can't imagine ever needing to pay more for a better sounding DAC for my purposes.


 

 I agree...  The iFi stack would give even the best dacs, headphone amps and power conditioners a run for their money.


----------



## iFi audio

gradosound said:


> One of the best kept secrets in HT setups (to get a decent stereo audio from HT) is to get an AVR with pre-outs and a good 2ch power amp to drive L/R speakers then put iTube between AVR and power amp. I do this with an Onkyo 818 and Rotel 1552 Mk2 and the result is amazing. It sounds like you are listening to a $$$$$ gear.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You hit the nail on the head. To ameliorate the typical A/V solid-state sound (like you get at the cinema nowadays, doesnt matter if you are in the UK/USA or elsewhere).
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/av-home-entertainment/
  
 This is the connection diagram:
  

 For us, in this setup, the 6dB gain helps even more.


----------



## earfonia

triodemode said:


> The reason your setup sounds so remarkable is due to you listening through the iCAN and not the iDSD's built in headphone amp...  The iDSD headphone section uses a chip that has been on the market for 10 years.  Trying to make comparisons between this and the Ray Samuels Raptor tube amplifier is IMO ridiculous.
> 
> It has been well established that to fully exploit the sonic attributes of the iDSD DAC section, an exteranl amplifier needs to be used.  There are several other portable headphone amplifiers that utilize class A topology with excellent results.  My feeling is that instead of having a power level swith (eco-normal-turbo), it would have been more sonically advantageuos to utilize discrete components in the headphone amp, and have this switch change between class A and A/B operation, this would give the option (with more sensitive headphones and IEMs in Class A) to better convey more of the excellent DAC's sound when using the unit as a single box solution.
> 
> ...


 
  
 TPA6120 is still newer than the tubes technology used in Ray Samuels Raptor tube. So I believe it is not about older or newer, but simply the sound quality. I don't believe newer chip will always sounds better.
  
 I do agree with you that the Turbo mode is not very useful, I don't mind to exchange the turbo feature for better sound quality, lower power headphone amplifier. Even a 0.5 watt headphone amplifier with better sound quality is much better than a lean sounding 4 watt amplifier. After using for more than 3 months with various headphones and IEMs, I do feel that the headphone output quality is not on par with the sound quality of the DAC section. The micro iDSD headphone output is rather lean sounding, lacking of tonal density. When connecting micro iCan to micro iDSD output, I can hear significant improvement of the sound quality. I don't mind to pay more if ifi can improve the sound quality of the iDSD headphone output, to match the sound quality of micro iCan. At least we can have one superb quality one box solution.


----------



## EVOLVIST

fleemur12 said:


> A quick update.  I've been listening to my iCan micro in my iFi stack for a couple of days now, and the increase in soundstage and sonic detail is remarkable.  I eventually need to get some audio analysis software to support my observations.  I'm done writing tonight between work, eBay and this board, so I'm keeping this short and I'll see if I have permission to post pics yet.


 
  
 Thanks for the cool pics! Yeah, I don't have my iDSD micro yet, but I have about 168 hours burn in with the iCAN and it's really putting up a fight against my SPL Auditor headphone amp, which is what...at least $600 pricier for the SPL? To me the Auditor is the best SS amp on the planet. My problem, therefore, has become, do I loose a little width and naturalness by selling my Auditor over the iCAN, or do I keep the iCAN, with a tad bit narrower soundstage, yet with the details a little more intimate.
  
 It's difficult to explain what you hear; still, we're talking a class act piece of gear with the iCAN. Perhaps hearing it with the iDSD micro will go a long way in solving my dilemma.


----------



## rickyleelee

fleemur12 said:


> Audeze headphones for $699?!?  I bet there are a lot of people salivating for the release of the EL-8s.  I just wish that a $700 price point was affordable to me personally and not just compared to Audeze's other headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
I've tried a lot of tube amps and they all the good ones add a harmonic "richness" that is nice but sometimes overcooked and it becomes too rose tinted. Certainly not a bad thing but not wanting to hi-jack this thread, the itube adds a harmonic "rightness" which makes it a little different and more preferrable in my book. But if you want colouration, this will disappoint. 
When I go out, I just take the micro idsd but when I get home, i dock in into the big rig. Of all the devices, I found the iusb power as having the least impact on the sonics. I much recommend spending the hard earned on the itube / ican. This is for the micro idsd comb and is just my 2 cents. Just try it for yourself and report the results. Yes, the EL-8 looks nice. My question is how much of the audeze sound does it retain? If it does 80%, then $699 is not too bad. I just have to spend less on my camera gear. Or hide it from the wife better.


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> Err, before we go too far, you should know that the same chip is used in both iCAN and iDSD headphone output stage. 10 years is really nothing as new chip is usually slow to be adopted by the industry. Some opamp, like OPA627, easy double the time and yet still well regarded among user and manufacturer. In fact, the DSD1793 in iDSD is well over 10 years too. At the end of the day, it is more about the implementation (and its limitation no less) than everything else.


 

 I did notice that the DSD1793 data sheet was dated 2006 and agree that some chips such as the expensive Analog Devices OPA627 op amp you mentioned do have quite a following, and rightfully so.  I am surprised however to see the 6120a2 headphone driver that I wa referring to in the iCAN and iDSD, as it is used in many computer sound cards and less expensive headphone amps.  And even though this IC specs really well and is refrenced quite a bit in the DIY community, I have not seen them used in very many in high end headphone amplifiers. 
  
 Being a purist, I have almost always experienced higher fidelity and more musicality in properly designed class A amplifiers where disceet components are used exclusively.  I do agree that how a specific IC is implemented (particularly  a DAC) plays a key role in it's sound and often compromises need to occur.  My only frustration was in hoping that somehow the iDSD's heaphone section could have been constructed to convey ALL of the DAC's fantastic sound without having to resort to an external amp.
  
 I do apologize if I came across as being too critical.  I have said several times already that overall this is an excellent offering from the folks at iFi.


----------



## rickyleelee

thisisvv said:


> Hi all,
> 
> getting this device on saturday, wanted to ask has anyone used this with LCD-3...., currently i am using a adcom dac with ray samuels Raptor amplifier with lcd-3...was wondering hows the ifi idsd as an amp is...i know it is a great dac what i have heard...
> 
> ...


 
The Raptor is a fine amplifier. But seeing that it sells for more than double the cost of the idsd micro, and is a pure tube amp, you should expect different sonic pictures. Price and usage wise they are different right? tube vs solid state, desk versus portable.

Seeing that you getting the iDSD micro soon, you would be best placed to compare the internal amplifier of the iDSD micro vs. the Raptor, so you write the review for others that have the same question if they wanna do this different comp? Help us here dude.


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> TPA6120 is still newer than the tubes technology used in Ray Samuels Raptor tube. So I believe it is not about older or newer, but simply the sound quality. I don't believe newer chip will always sounds better.
> 
> I do agree with you that the Turbo mode is not very useful, I don't mind to exchange the turbo feature for better sound quality, lower power headphone amplifier. Even a 0.5 watt headphone amplifier with better sound quality is much better than a lean sounding 4 watt amplifier. After using for more than 3 months with various headphones and IEMs, I do feel that the headphone output quality is not on par with the sound quality of the DAC section. The micro iDSD headphone output is rather lean sounding, lacking of tonal density. When connecting micro iCan to micro iDSD output, I can hear significant improvement of the sound quality. I don't mind to pay more if ifi can improve the sound quality of the iDSD headphone output, to match the sound quality of micro iCan. At least we can have one superb quality one box solution.


 

 As was my response to ClieOS, there are some highly regarded IC's used in high end gear that stand the test of time, though I have rarely seem the Texas Insturments 6120a2 headphone driver appear in high end heaphone amps. Usually I see them used in computer sound cards and more entry level heaphone amplifiers.
  
 I completely agree with your assesment of the iDSD headphone section as it minicks my own experience as well.  It's only when I connect an external amp to the iDSD RCA outputs that I hear the full sonic beautifulness produced by that fantastic DAC section.


----------



## EVOLVIST

triodemode said:


> As was my response to ClieOS, there are some highly regarded IC's used in high end gear that stand the test of time, though I have rarely seem the Texas Insturments 6120a2 headphone driver appear in high end heaphone amps. Usually I see them used in computer sound cards and more entry level heaphone amplifiers.
> 
> I completely agree with your assesment of the iDSD headphone section as it minicks my own experience as well.  *It's only when I connect an external amp to the iDSD RCA outputs that I hear the full sonic beautifulness produced by that fantastic DAC section.*


 
  
 Are you going from the unbalanced RCAs on the iDSD micro to balanced inputs on an amp, or running an all unbalanced signal?


----------



## Triodemode

evolvist said:


> Are you going from the unbalanced RCAs on the iDSD micro to balanced inputs on an amp, or running an all unbalanced signal?


 

 All unbalanced...   I'm curious what brought this interesting question up?


----------



## EVOLVIST

triodemode said:


> All unbalanced...   I'm curious what brought this interesting question up?


 
  
 Oh it's nothing, really. Just thinking about my own rig, and since I haven't gotten the chance to hear my iDSD micro yet, I'm trying to rectify in my head going from an unbalanced RCA output to balanced XLR inputs on my headphone amp. Some have said you need a unbalanced to balanced converter box to optimize the sound, while others claim that even a passive box is going to add some sort of coloration (which I want to avoid), so if your not getting any noise/hum from going RCA to XLR, you're golden. I would like to avoid the 6db gain on the iDSD micro if at all possible to drive my amp and cans.  So, I guess we will see. All of this is conjecture/ruminating, of course, but it falls back to whether or not I keep the iCAN or stick with my current HP amp, using the iDSD micro as a DAC, only.


----------



## tf1216

If you guys want to give your Micro iDSD a cool test with the 3D switch please try this song
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_SmNVXkzwA
  
 There are three guitarists.  One takes the left channel, one the right channel, and the one an only Shawn Lane in the middle.  Works better with the CD but the YouTube video doesn't do a bad job at imaging.


----------



## EVOLVIST

Does anyone have a better ultra fast charging option for the iDSD micro other than this piece of junk Orico?
  
 (No offense to the wise souls at iFi)


----------



## Triodemode

evolvist said:


> Oh it's nothing, really. Just thinking about my own rig, and since I haven't gotten the chance to hear my iDSD micro yet, I'm trying to rectify in my head going from an unbalanced RCA output to balanced XLR inputs on my headphone amp. Some have said you need a unbalanced to balanced converter box to optimize the sound, while others claim that even a passive box is going to add some sort of coloration (which I want to avoid), so if your not getting any noise/hum from going RCA to XLR, you're golden. I would like to avoid the 6db gain on the iDSD micro if at all possible to drive my amp and cans.  So, I guess we will see. All of this is conjecture/ruminating, of course, but it falls back to whether or not I keep the iCAN or stick with my current HP amp, using the iDSD micro as a DAC, only.


 

 Obviously less components in the signal path is preferred.  I have connected this way in the past without noise using a short cable length (2 feet) and the 6db level increase was not an issue, though I can see your concern with headphones. Using a shielded cable tied to pin 1 of your balanced connector will hopefully mitigate any noise issues. 
  
 What model balanced headphone amp are you using?


----------



## earfonia

evolvist said:


> Oh it's nothing, really. Just thinking about my own rig, and since I haven't gotten the chance to hear my iDSD micro yet, I'm trying to rectify in my head going from an unbalanced RCA output to balanced XLR inputs on my headphone amp. Some have said you need a unbalanced to balanced converter box to optimize the sound, while others claim that even a passive box is going to add some sort of coloration (which I want to avoid), so if your not getting any noise/hum from going RCA to XLR, you're golden. I would like to avoid the 6db gain on the iDSD micro if at all possible to drive my amp and cans.  So, I guess we will see. All of this is conjecture/ruminating, of course, but it falls back to whether or not I keep the iCAN or stick with my current HP amp, using the iDSD micro as a DAC, only.


 
  
 You may check the following:
 http://www.rane.com/note110.html
  
 You can use interconnection no: 17.
  


rickyleelee said:


> I've tried a lot of tube amps and they all the good ones add a harmonic "richness" that is nice but sometimes overcooked and it becomes too rose tinted. Certainly not a bad thing but not wanting to hi-jack this thread, the itube adds a harmonic "rightness" which makes it a little different and more preferrable in my book. But if you want colouration, this will disappoint.
> When I go out, I just take the micro idsd but when I get home, i dock in into the big rig. Of all the devices, I found the iusb power as having the least impact on the sonics. I much recommend spending the hard earned on the itube / ican. This is for the micro idsd comb and is just my 2 cents. Just try it for yourself and report the results. Yes, the EL-8 looks nice. My question is how much of the audeze sound does it retain? If it does 80%, then $699 is not too bad. I just have to spend less on my camera gear. Or hide it from the wife better.


 
  
 Agree. At the price ifi micro iDSD is already a wonderful package. But because the DAC section is so good, beyond its price point, that the headphone amp section sound left behind, even actually for the price, the headphone amp is fine. I think to ask iDSD headphone amp to sound like a tube amp is not reasonable. I just wish that ifi could improve the iDSD headphone section to match the sound quality of micro iCan. Even at higher price, to have one good sounding one box solution is very useful for us, especially those who travel.
  
 One of my favorite setup with micro iDSD:

  
 The 500 mW @ 16 ohms, or 300 mW @ 32 ohms of AT-HA22Tube is driving my HE5-LE orthodynamic wonderfully. I hardly figure when will we ever need 4 watt headphone amplifier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Probably for AKG K1000 only...


----------



## EVOLVIST

triodemode said:


> Obviously less components in the signal path is preferred.  I have connected this way in the past without noise using a short cable length (2 feet) and the 6db level increase was not an issue, though I can see your concern with headphones. Using a shielded cable tied to pin 1 of your balanced connector will hopefully mitigate any noise issues.
> 
> What model balanced headphone amp are you using?




I'm using an SPL Auditor amp = The best SS headphone amp I've ever heard. I've actually used some off the shelf RCA to XLR cables and I've gotten no noise/ hum/hiss, but at 0db I really have to crank the amp, as opposed to going balanced out of other DACs. The fact that so far - without trying the iDSD micro yet - the iCAN almost goes toe to toe with my Auditor (which is saying a lot) might be a good sign for the iDSD. I'm just worried about having enough juice while retaining full function of the iDSD bells and whistles, like Xbass, etc.


----------



## EVOLVIST

earfonia said:


> You may check the following:
> http://www.rane.com/note110.html
> 
> You can use interconnection no: 17.




Funny that. A Rane rep talked me out of their product today because he said, "No hum, no problem." He mentioned it might color the sound in a way I might not like and a chance of getting low level phase. * shrug *


----------



## earfonia

evolvist said:


> Funny that. A Rane rep talked me out of their product today because he said, "No hum, no problem." He mentioned it might color the sound in a way I might not like and a chance of getting low level phase. * shrug *




Oops! In that case why don't you just give it a try? You can judge yourself whether you like it or not. I use to diy my cables, RCA to XLR won't cost too much. And Amazon has some cheap and good cable just for testing:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001UJH0XU/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1421379608&sr=8-3&pi=SL75

If you find the sound is acceptable, you may try better cables.

Updated:
Just read your previous post, that you have tried RCA to XLR and hear some noise. Looks like a special case. In that case i will try to connect the pin 1 and 3 of the XLR to the RCA ground.


----------



## Triodemode

evolvist said:


> I'm using an SPL Auditor amp = The best SS headphone amp I've ever heard. I've actually used some off the shelf RCA to XLR cables and I've gotten no noise/ hum/hiss, but at 0db I really have to crank the amp, as opposed to going balanced out of other DACs. The fact that so far - without trying the iDSD micro yet - the iCAN almost goes toe to toe with my Auditor (which is saying a lot) might be a good sign for the iDSD. I'm just worried about having enough juice while retaining full function of the iDSD bells and whistles, like Xbass, etc.


 

 That right, I remember now you mentioning it in your earlier post.  I am surprised as well that you are finding the Auditor and the iCAN to be so close sonically.  Regarding level matching, I am under the understanding that in ECO mode the RCA outputs deliver 0db and in NORMAL mode it is increased to +9db.  Not sure if this takes place in direct mode as well as when preamplifier mode is selected, and may alleviate any level issues when driving a balanced input.  Let us know your impressions after the iDSD micro arrives.
  
 The headphone and portable segment of our hobby has been exploding with some really exceptional products over these last several years.  This coupled with the plethora of downloadable high resolution music recently, has really made listening to music on the go exciting.  I was born 20 years too soon me thinks.


----------



## EVOLVIST

earfonia said:


> Oops! In that case why don't you just give it a try? You can judge yourself whether you like it or not. I use to diy my cables, RCA to XLR won't cost too much. And Amazon has some cheap and good cable just for testing:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001UJH0XU/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1421379608&sr=8-3&pi=SL75
> 
> If you find the sound is acceptable, you may try better cables.
> ...


 
 No, no...I'm getting NO noise from the RCA to XLR cables. Nothing, nada, ziltch. Just a black background.  My point is, I want to keep it that way, running my iDSD micro unbalanced RCA out to my balanced Auditor, via XLR, in. But there's the fear of not being able to drive the amp, and thus my HD800s, with the iDSD, alone.  That's why I called Rane, but Rane didn't think their product was for me.  Still, I guess you're right: I could try it out just to see how it sounds.


triodemode said:


> That right, I remember now you mentioning it in your earlier post.  I am surprised as well that you are finding the Auditor and the iCAN to be so close sonically.  Regarding level matching, I am under the understanding that in ECO mode the RCA outputs deliver 0db and in NORMAL mode it is increased to +9db.  Not sure if this takes place in direct mode as well as when preamplifier mode is selected, and may alleviate any level issues when driving a balanced input.  Let us know your impressions after the iDSD micro arrives.
> 
> The headphone and portable segment of our hobby has been exploding with some really exceptional products over these last several years.  This coupled with the plethora of downloadable high resolution music recently, has really made listening to music on the go exciting.  I was born 20 years too soon me thinks.


 
  
 Yeah, the iCAN is sonically similar in quality, even though it doesn't have quite the width and depth of the Auditor. The iCAN is a very clean in-the-ear experience, which gives it a very desirable intimacy. Now, I'm using HD800s, so I'm getting  a lot of width and depth there, so I can't attest to what one might feel with other cans. What the Auditor does, however, that no other headphone amp can, is go a bit beyond the 180 degree headphone experience. The vocals breathe a bit more: they float in empty air, brass instruments and cymbals decay clearer and longer...I could go on and on about the Auditor. But, there's a certain charm to the intimacy that I really like with the iCAN. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed. The iCAN is pure, beautiful amp, much larger sounding than its price point. Still, if I had to choose today, I would stick with the Auditor. The reason I'm not, of course, is because I want to hear the iDSD along with the iCAN, the iTube and the iUSB as one package before I make any big decisions. As is, I love the iTube and iUSB...and I love the iCAN, too. I'm just not sure how it will shake out.
  
 I'll be sure to let you know. Thanks for the interest.


----------



## EVOLVIST

Never mind


----------



## jexby

earfonia said:


> One of my favorite setup with micro iDSD:
> 
> 
> The 500 mW @ 16 ohms, or 300 mW @ 32 ohms of AT-HA22Tube is driving my HE5-LE orthodynamic wonderfully. I hardly figure when will we ever need 4 watt headphone amplifier
> ...


 
  
 while I dig to find info/reviews/specs/availability of that cool AT-HA22Tube amp: a simpler question:
  
 What is that slick looking 1/4" to 3.5mm headphone adapter you have plugged into the iFi iDSD micro?
 I'm betting it's Asia only and never to be found in amerika ??


----------



## earfonia

jexby said:


> while I dig to find info/reviews/specs/availability of that cool AT-HA22Tube amp: a simpler question:
> 
> What is that slick looking 1/4" to 3.5mm headphone adapter you have plugged into the iFi iDSD micro?
> I'm betting it's Asia only and never to be found in amerika ??


 
  
 Sharp eyes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It is Furutech F63S-G, 3.5mm to 6.5mm adapter:
 http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00KX1KOLG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=12YOXRDXBWTFK&coliid=I1S4QAHL987UWZ&psc=1


----------



## jexby

earfonia said:


> Sharp eyes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I like!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 bought a similar Furutech adapter off ebay USA last year (from a japanese seller), but the actual 3.5mm "hole" was recessed from the outer shell.
 thus, some of my IEM cables with a 3.5mm plug don't fit/seat completely within the outer ring.
  
 will dig and see if I can find your Furutech adapter somehow in the usa.
 cheers mate!


----------



## jhwalker

If you are buying the Micro, it comes with a nice quality adapter like this one.


----------



## fleemur12

jexby said:


> I like!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Like jhwalker said, the iFi iDSD micro comes with a very capable 3.5mm to 6.5mm adapter. 
  
  The prone adapter on right is from iFi (came with iDSD micro) the standing adapter on left is from Sony (came with MDR-7506s). 
  
  Switched from above w/ the iFi standing on left. 
  
  
  
  
 If you're heart is set on the admittedly cool-looking dual-tone Furutech, there are a couple sellers from Japan and one from China selling them on eBay for about $35   shipped to US...or you can get a gold-plated adapter that ships from US off of amazon for about $3.50. 
  
 UPDATE:  The Furutech F63-S(G) has a flush port to accept the 3.5mm plug, while the F63-(G) has a recessed port (shown below). 
  

 moon-audio carries them domestically.


----------



## iFi audio

*iCLUB members...*  

  
How to arrange to have your iCLUB card sent to you:
  

Please opening a new ticket in the iFi Customer Relationship Management database here:
 http://iclubcrm.ifi-audio.com/
  

Once we have your delivery address, your concierge will then sign the card personally will be sent out to you.
  
All part and parcel of being in the iCLUB. If you have any questions, just ask your concierge!
  
We are sure you will be quite taken by the iCLUB card. It really is quite stunning.
  
 Also posted here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-iclub-memebership-card-instructions-page-133/1980#post_11229110


----------



## rickyleelee

triodemode said:


> As was my response to ClieOS, there are some highly regarded IC's used in high end gear that stand the test of time, though I have rarely seem the Texas Insturments 6120a2 headphone driver appear in high end heaphone amps. Usually I see them used in computer sound cards and more entry level heaphone amplifiers.
> 
> I completely agree with your assesment of the iDSD headphone section as it minicks my own experience as well.  It's only when I connect an external amp to the iDSD RCA outputs that I hear the full sonic beautifulness produced by that fantastic DAC section.


 
  
Two things. 1) I would say fair enough but neither is the Burr-Brown chipset used in other high-end DACs. So it has a less than desirable chipset too. 2) At the end of the day, it is a swiss army knife (portable/desktop) and saying it isnt a chainsaw (pure desktop that is up to full dedicated tube amps) is somewhat at odds with its remit (and price/performance). For me, when I get home, I put it in the big rig and then disconnect when I go out. To ask it do Class A or A/B switching and so on is just beyond the bounds of reality. Happy to stand (or sit) corrected.


----------



## MunDa

Do I need to buy anything extra in order to hook this up with my galaxy note 3 ?


----------



## ImperialBlade

munda said:


> Do I need to buy anything extra in order to hook this up with my galaxy note 3 ?


 
 I am pretty sure the iFi IDSD Micro come with what you will need, meaning a included 3.5mm to 3.5mm standard jack for connection to mobile device. That you *may* want to upgrade in time but it should get you going.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Has anyone used an iMac or phone (Android of iOS) as a source to stream music to the iDSD Mirco? I am talking about music streaming services like Pandora, Amazon, Google, or Tidal?


----------



## MunDa

imperialblade said:


> I am pretty sure the iFi IDSD Micro come with what you will need, meaning a included 3.5mm to 3.5mm standard jack for connection to mobile device. That you *may* want to upgrade in time but it should get you going.




Thx. Do I connect the devices via otg cable or through 3.5mm to 3.5mm?? Why do u say I may want to upgrade in time?


----------



## EVOLVIST

rickyleelee said:


> Two things. 1) I would say fair enough but neither is the Burr-Brown chipset used in other high-end DACs. So it has a less than desirable chipset too. 2) At the end of the day, it is a swiss army knife (portable/desktop) and saying it isnt a chainsaw (pure desktop that is up to full dedicated tube amps) is somewhat at odds with its remit (and price/performance). For me, when I get home, I put it in the big rig and then disconnect when I go out. To ask it do Class A or A/B switching and so on is just beyond the bounds of reality. Happy to stand (or sit) corrected.


 
  
 But it's not just the chipset. It's how they are implemented is another driving factor. To say a chipset is "less than desirable,"  sounds like (but I could be wrong) that you haven't tried a plethora of DACs. Price often has nothing to do with it, because the chips are purchased for pennies on the dollar. I have a little Aune T1 Tube DAC that uses the same PCM1793 chips as the Burson high-end models. My $189 unit goes toe to toe with the Burson models. Sabres, to my ears sound too slick, almost like they take a digital signal, flip it to analog, then turn it back to digital.
  
 In fact, I just returned a $1500 DAC, equipped with 2x PCM 1972 chips that sounded like so much ass, I wouldn't even listen to it on the crapper.
  
 So, where do you go right and where do you go wrong? With you ears.


----------



## ImperialBlade

munda said:


> Thx. Do I connect the devices via otg cable or through 3.5mm to 3.5mm?? Why do u say I may want to upgrade in time?


 
 Hello MunDa,
  
 You would use the 3.5mm to 3.5mm if you want to connect your Note to the Micro.
 As far as upgrading, that is an option that could improve sound. Like using an Oxygen Free Cable made of silver. In many cases this improves the sound quality in music. 
  
 Regards,
  
 Eric


----------



## senorx12562

imperialblade said:


> Hello MunDa,
> 
> You would use the 3.5mm to 3.5mm if you want to connect your Note to the Micro.
> As far as upgrading, that is an option that could improve sound. Like using an Oxygen Free Cable made of silver. In many cases this improves the sound quality in music.
> ...




If you connect this way you will bypass the DAC in the micro.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Thanks Senorx12562 for pointing this out. Then what is the correct way for connect to the Micro with a phone?


----------



## senorx12562

USB otg cable,which requires support of that function, and also player software like USB audio pro (I think).


----------



## ImperialBlade

Thanks Senorx12562 for the info!
  
 MunDa, you first assumption was the correct one!


----------



## technobear

munda said:


> imperialblade said:
> 
> 
> > I am pretty sure the iFi IDSD Micro come with what you will need, meaning a included 3.5mm to 3.5mm standard jack for connection to mobile device. That you *may* want to upgrade in time but it should get you going.
> ...




A list of standard USB DAC reportedly interworking with the Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy Note3:
 stock Samsung Galaxy Note3 > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable (ID pin grounded) >> USB DAC >> amp >> headphones
http://goo.gl/7Bvkhz

from here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/6060#post_11190932

You will need a USB OTG cable with a USB A Female termination to insert into the iDSD.


----------



## senorx12562

technobear said:


> A list of standard USB DAC reportedly interworking with the Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy Note3:
> stock Samsung Galaxy Note3 > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable (ID pin grounded) >> USB DAC >> amp >> headphones
> http://goo.gl/7Bvkhz
> 
> ...


 
 How does one insert a female termination?


----------



## citraian

senorx12562 said:


> How does one insert a female termination?



Gently. With tender loving care


----------



## technobear

senorx12562 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > A list of standard USB DAC reportedly interworking with the Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy Note3:
> ...




The micro iDSD has a recessed USB A Male plug. This was chosen to match the Apple CCK/Lightning cable.

micro USB OTG to USB A Female cables are readily available.

Make sure the cable is 'OTG'. Regular types won't work.


----------



## mogulmaster

my LCD2s like the turbo mode. To me I swear it sounds even more lively. Problem is the volume is too loud (below 8:30 o'clock I get channel imbalance)


----------



## senorx12562

technobear said:


> The micro iDSD has a recessed USB A Male plug. This was chosen to match the Apple CCK/Lightning cable.
> 
> micro USB OTG to USB A Female cables are readily available.
> 
> ...




Dude, it was a joke.


----------



## ImperialBlade

technobear said:


> The micro iDSD has a recessed USB A Male plug. This was chosen to match the Apple CCK/Lightning cable.
> 
> micro USB OTG to USB A Female cables are readily available.
> 
> Make sure the cable is 'OTG'. Regular types won't work.


 
 Will this cable work?....
 http://www.amazon.com/LIFETIME-WARRANTY-Electronics-Micro-Cable/dp/B005GGBYJ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1421466576&sr=1-1&keywords=USB+OTG+cable+with+a+USB+A+Female


----------



## semeniub

Warmth of the amp section of the Micro iDSD...
  
 If you are using a computer as a source for the Micro, and you are worried about the "lean" characteristics of the Micro's headphone amp section, it's worthwhile trying an equalization plugin with your playback software to tweak your tonal balance. You might get a sound that you like without having to resort to additional external amps. Worth a try if you can do a free trial of the software.


----------



## technobear

imperialblade said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > The micro iDSD has a recessed USB A Male plug. This was chosen to match the Apple CCK/Lightning cable.
> ...




That's the one - assuming the Note 3 has a micro USB port.

Don't forget to switch the iDSD on before connecting it to the phone. 

The phone will probably not power or charge the iDSD. You must charge the iDSD first.


----------



## Quince0369

Hello,

I'll receive the iDSD micro and the Ibasso DX50 soon and remember that I need a cable/adapter that is not included in the original packaging of both, but I can't remember what it was and I couldn't find a hint. I want to got the "digital way" that the iDSD is my DAC.
Maybe one of you can tell me what I need?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

mogulmaster said:


> my LCD2s like the turbo mode. To me I swear it sounds even more lively. Problem is the volume is too loud (below 8:30 o'clock I get channel imbalance)


 

 Try IEM Match stettings and you have more room to play with the volume


----------



## earfonia

mogulmaster said:


> my LCD2s like the turbo mode. To me I swear it sounds even more lively. Problem is the volume is too loud (below 8:30 o'clock I get channel imbalance)




It's the gain that makes the difference, not the amount of power. You set the volume low right? That means only small power were used, at high gain. 

All amplifier sound differently on different gain setting. For example, my DX90, at low gain it doesn't sound as good as at high gain. I always set it at high gain now, better dynamic, better control, and sounds tighter and punchier.


----------



## maricius

quince0369 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'll receive the iDSD micro and the Ibasso DX50 soon and remember that I need a cable/adapter that is not included in the original packaging of both, but I can't remember what it was and I couldn't find a hint. I want to got the "digital way" that the iDSD is my DAC.
> Maybe one of you can tell me what I need?


 

 3.5mm to RCA coaxial cable. The DX50 should come with one.


----------



## Quince0369

maricius said:


> 3.5mm to RCA coaxial cable. The DX50 should come with one.




Hm...after some research I thought I need a 3.5mm to 3.5mm from the Coax Digital Output (DX50) to the 3.5mm Input (DX50).


----------



## maricius

quince0369 said:


> Hm...after some research I thought I need a 3.5mm to 3.5mm from the Coax Digital Output (DX50) to the 3.5mm Input (DX50).


 

 I'm sorry… but what? 3.5mm is the Coax Digital Output of the DX50 but the iDSD has RCA Coax Digital Input.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

Reading through the posts, I saw many good comments from various posters regarding the sound quality and sound stage of the micro iCan.  How does the nano iCan compare to the micro iCan?  The nano is the one that's actually portable, so we're interested in whether the sound quality and sound stage are the same or if they are quite different.  I tend to be more interested in the portable versions of the gear.


----------



## maricius

hookedonaudio said:


> Reading through the posts, I saw many good comments from various posters regarding the sound quality and sound stage of the micro iCan.  How does the nano iCan compare to the micro iCan?  The nano is the one that's actually portable, so we're interested in whether the sound quality and sound stage are the same or if they are quite different.  I tend to be more interested in the portable versions of the gear.


 

 From what I've read, the onboard amp of the iDSD is overall better than that of the nano iCan. I do wish to hear the Micro iCan but I, like you, want a fully portable setup or at least transportable.


----------



## earfonia

hookedonaudio said:


> Reading through the posts, I saw many good comments from various posters regarding the sound quality and sound stage of the micro iCan.  How does the nano iCan compare to the micro iCan?  The nano is the one that's actually portable, so we're interested in whether the sound quality and sound stage are the same or if they are quite different.  I tend to be more interested in the portable versions of the gear.


 
  
 They are quite different, micro iCan is IMHO much better.
  
  


semeniub said:


> Warmth of the amp section of the Micro iDSD...
> 
> If you are using a computer as a source for the Micro, and you are worried about the "lean" characteristics of the Micro's headphone amp section, it's worthwhile trying an equalization plugin with your playback software to tweak your tonal balance. You might get a sound that you like without having to resort to additional external amps. Worth a try if you can do a free trial of the software.


 
  
 Well not so easy, tonal density and warmth (even harmonic richness) are not adjustable by equalizer. EQ can help to improve to add some body to the mids and bass, but won't be able to achieve harmonic manipulation by tube stage to add 'real sense of warmth'.  Anyway, all EQ plugins don't sound the same either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Now I'm listening to:
  
 ifi micro iDSD as DAC, line out  >  ifi micro iTube set as buffer (0 dB)  >  Violectric HPA V200  >  Beyerdynamic T1
  

  

  
 Honestly, I'm really impressed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Lively, pretty good dynamic, silky smooth, right amount of warmness, good tonal density, good clarity, transparent, and spacious.  Really enjoyable sound signature! Fantastic setup! 
 Well the dynamic, transient, and tightness still behind AT-HA5050H, but overall, the above setup sounds wonderful. Musical and really enjoyable!


----------



## Goosey

What will yield better sound quality?  Computer to Micro or Smartphone to Micro?  Anyone done a comparison?


----------



## HookedOnAudio

earfonia said:


> They are quite different, micro iCan is IMHO much better.


 
  
 Thank you very much for sharing your impressions.  So, the basic order of great to not-so-great in terms of purely the sound quality & sound stage of the amp (not DAC) would be:
 1. micro iCan
 2. micro iDSD
 3. nano iCan
  
 Something like that?


----------



## earfonia

hookedonaudio said:


> Thank you very much for sharing your impressions.  So, the basic order of great to not-so-great in terms of purely the sound quality & sound stage of the amp (not DAC) would be:
> 1. micro iCan
> 2. micro iDSD
> 3. nano iCan
> ...




IMHO, Yes.


----------



## semeniub

earfonia said:


> They are quite different, micro iCan is IMHO much better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice! I have always been curious about how a Violectric amp would sound together with the iFi gear.
  
 Regarding both of our comments about "tonal balance" and "tonal density", we are really speaking about sound quality, and this is a highly personal and individual concept without real exact science behind it. All we can really say is that there are many ways to get there from here.


----------



## rebeljeff

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> As much as we would like another customer to purchase a micro iDSD, in your case, we advise you to return it unopened for a full refund.
> 
> This is because not being able to do what you wish with the Samsung is likely to upset you.




Well my micro iDSD arrived and I decided I'd keep it even without streaming capability on my Galaxy Note 3 since it'll most often be used at home with my laptop. (Sounds excellent by the way!). Then I plugged the thing into my phone and out of curiosity opened up Spotify and pressed play.... the result was the beautiful sound of Donny Hathaway's piano and voice blessing my ears. So something's clearly working!


----------



## senorx12562

imperialblade said:


> Will this cable work?....
> http://www.amazon.com/LIFETIME-WARRANTY-Electronics-Micro-Cable/dp/B005GGBYJ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1421466576&sr=1-1&keywords=USB+OTG+cable+with+a+USB+A+Female




Yes that is the correct cable.You will also have to make sure your device supports OTG (not all android devices do) and get player software that also supports OTG (USB Audio player pro and hibymusic are the ones I know of).


----------



## tf1216

What Donny Hathaway album are you listening to? He is one of my favorites.


----------



## technobear

earfonia said:


> Now I'm listening to:
> 
> ifi micro iDSD as DAC, line out  >  ifi micro iTube set as buffer (0 dB)  >  Violectric HPA V200  >  Beyerdynamic T1
> 
> ...




You really need to try a micro iCAN. It's a match made in Heaven for the T1. Once you hear your T1 with XBASS and 3D Holographic for headphones, you'll never want to be without it.


----------



## thisisvv

Got the micro , can I charge it faster using apple or android charger and connecting the USB Cable to it ? Or do I need to charge 24 hours only with pc


----------



## technobear

thisisvv said:


> Got the micro , can I charge it faster using apple or android charger and connecting the USB Cable to it ? Or do I need to charge 24 hours only with pc




Any USB charger will do but you should still let it charge for 24 hours. Your patience will be rewarded.


----------



## earfonia

semeniub said:


> Very nice! I have always been curious about how a Violectric amp would sound together with the iFi gear.
> 
> Regarding both of our comments about "tonal balance" and "tonal density", we are really speaking about sound quality, and this is a highly personal and individual concept without real exact science behind it. All we can really say is that there are many ways to get there from here.


 
  
 Agree. The science is catching up slowly. Now we have harmonic enhancer plugins, and also there are some plugins to simulate tubes warmth. The way those hundreds of plugins out there manipulate digital signal with so many different algorithm is quite amazing.  And they are keep improving.
  
 I hope one day we will have a programmable DAC that compatible with plugins, either VST or other formats. So we can install a few plugins in the DAC, and use them in a portable way without PC. That will be a killer DAC especially for the Pros.  Actually Creative has, in different way, done that.  Their DSP in Sound Blaster DACs is actually process the digital signal for their own effects, the SBX, Crystal Voice, etc. Would be nice if we can install our own plugin in the DAC


----------



## earfonia

technobear said:


> You really need to try a micro iCAN. It's a match made in Heaven for the T1. Once you hear your T1 with XBASS and 3D Holographic for headphones, you'll never want to be without it.


 
  
 I tried iCan in a headphone shop a few months back, like it a lot. Tomorrow I'm getting the micro iCan. Will share impressions later.
 The 3D effect on the iTube is amazingly works well. Normally I never really satisfied with those enhancement, and choose not to use them, but the 3D holographic on iTube is surprisingly quite nice to use. It reduces the dynamic, bass punch, a little bit, but very nice on jazz and vocal when I don't need bass punch.
  
 Note: The iTube is a loan from a friend.


----------



## semeniub

earfonia said:


> Agree. The science is catching up slowly. Now we have harmonic enhancer plugins, and also there are some plugins to simulate tubes warmth. The way those hundreds of plugins out there manipulate digital signal with so many different algorithm is quite amazing.  And they are keep improving.
> 
> I hope one day we will have a programmable DAC that compatible with plugins, either VST or other formats. So we can install a few plugins in the DAC, and use them in a portable way without PC. That will be a killer DAC especially for the Pros.  Actually Creative has, in different way, done that.  Their DSP in Sound Blaster DACs is actually process the digital signal for their own effects, the SBX, Crystal Voice, etc. Would be nice if we can install our own plugin in the DAC


 

 Fun stuff ahead. I wonder how this possibility will show up in the future; will the DAC's need to be FGPA based, or some other programmable tech?


----------



## earfonia

semeniub said:


> Fun stuff ahead. I wonder how this possibility will show up in the future; will the DAC's need to be FGPA based, or some other programmable tech?




No idea. Probably too early to discuss that


----------



## Triodemode

technobear said:


> Any USB charger will do but you should still let it charge for 24 hours. Your patience will be rewarded.


 

 Can someone explain to me the advantage of charging the iDSD for 24 hours?  I did charge my unit for 24 hours, even though the blue charge light went out after only 5 minutes.


----------



## mikemercer

This was a last-minute idea,
 and this lil' system was Glorious!!
  

 I needed to be close to my wifey, as her auto-immune disorder has gone CRAZY the last few weeks,
 so that meant being next to her on the couch - so...  Enter the wonderful portability of the iFi Micro iDSD!!!!
  
 Using TIDAL as the source via my iPad/CCK!
 Black Cat Silverstar USB cable
 Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite
 Master & Dynamic MH40s
  
 I've used this system before, 
 but not for an extended listening sesh.
  
 This time I went all night, and never a HINT of listener fatigue
 and I was glued to the music.
  
 iFi - this lil' thing is simply AMAZING
  
 Full review coming!!!!


----------



## technobear

earfonia said:


> The 3D effect on the iTube is amazingly works well. Normally I never really satisfied with those enhancement, and choose not to use them, but the 3D holographic on iTube is surprisingly quite nice to use. It reduces the dynamic, bass punch, a little bit, but very nice on jazz and vocal when I don't need bass punch.




Are you using the iTUBE 3D on headphones or speakers. It's designed for speakers. The 3D on the iCAN will sound quite different.


----------



## earfonia

technobear said:


> Are you using the iTUBE 3D on headphones or speakers. It's designed for speakers. The 3D on the iCAN will sound quite different.




I used it on headphones, surprisingly it sounds pretty good on headphones. I will compare with 3D on the iDSD later.


----------



## ClieOS

earfonia said:


> I used it on headphones, surprisingly it sounds pretty good on headphones. I will compare with 3D on the iDSD later.


 
  
 I am on the opposite opinion. I tried the iTube's 3DHS with headphone and it just messed up the whole image and position.


----------



## rebeljeff

tf1216 said:


> What Donny Hathaway album are you listening to? He is one of my favorites.










One of the greatest albums of all time... Live or otherwise.


----------



## earfonia

clieos said:


> I am on the opposite opinion. I tried the iTube's 3DHS with headphone and it just messed up the whole image and position.




Really? Well, let me try more. 
I tried last night with simple pop music, and the imaging sounded ok, didn't sound messed up. Imaging sounded a little wider and more relax. I will try again with binaural recording to analyze the imaging.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Mike,
  
 Thanks for the "head up" on this. I was wondering of anyone had done this, and you did exacltey what I was wondering. I am glad to head the great results. I am think of pair the iDSD Micro to the SoundMajic HP200 and the Dunu Titan 1.
  
 Regards,
 Eric


----------



## ImperialBlade

mikemercer said:


> This was a last-minute idea,
> and this lil' system was Glorious!!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mike,
  
 Thanks for the "head up" on this. I was wondering of anyone had done this, and you did exacltey what I was wondering. I am glad to head the great results. I am think of pair the iDSD Micro to the SoundMajic HP200 and the Dunu Titan 1.
  
 What imputs and setting did you use?
  
 Regards,
 Eric


----------



## SonicWarrior

I have been using IFI Micro for almost a week now. It makes a huge difference in high quality source than playing directly from my MBP. However, for low quality MP3 (256/128 kbps), I feel the output from micro is a little bright and the sound is a tad edgy.. Anyone feel the same?
  
 Can: Fidelio X2 (Impedance 32 Ohms)
 3D and XBASS: On
 Filter: BitPerfect
 Power Mode: Normal


----------



## jhwalker

sonicwarrior said:


> I have been using IFI Micro for almost a week now. It makes a huge difference in high quality source than playing directly from my MBP. However, for low quality MP3 (256/128 kbps), I feel the output from micro is a little bright and the sound is a tad edgy.. Anyone feel the same?
> 
> Can: Fidelio X2 (Impedance 32 Ohms)
> 3D and XBASS: On
> ...


 
  
 Try setting the filter to the middle position - it turns on the onboard upsampler + minimum phase filter, which tends to produce a mellower sound for this type of music, to my ear, at least.  Note that the 3D filter also produces a bit of upper octaves energy, so you might try turning it  off, as well.


----------



## kbuzz

Not to hijack this thread but can anyone point me to a post which shows the differences between nano and micro


----------



## Triodemode

sonicwarrior said:


> I have been using IFI Micro for almost a week now. It makes a huge difference in high quality source than playing directly from my MBP. However, for low quality MP3 (256/128 kbps), I feel the output from micro is a little bright and the sound is a tad edgy.. Anyone feel the same?
> 
> Can: Fidelio X2 (Impedance 32 Ohms)
> 3D and XBASS: On
> ...


 

 IMO you could play those low res file through almost any DAC and not hear a difference.  The sound is limited to what the quality of source material being played is.  Listening to highly compressed music through the iDSD micro is like using a race engine to drive a lawn mower   I cannot even listen to 128kbps, and ony tolerate 256kbps, 320kbps is not bad if the Lame encoder was used in the original conversion.  
  
 Using low resolution source material to describe the sound of a DAC is an exercise in futility I feel.  May I ask why you are playing these files?  Are you streaming Spotify, Pandora, or other lower resolution service?


----------



## SonicWarrior

triodemode said:


> IMO you could play those low res file through almost any DAC and not hear a difference.  The sound is limited to what the quality of source material being played is.  Listening to highly compressed music through the iDSD micro is like using a race engine to drive a lawn mower   I cannot even listen to 128kbps, and ony tolerate 256kbps, 320kbps is not bad if the Lame encoder was used in the original conversion.
> 
> Using low resolution source material to describe the sound of a DAC is an exercise in futility I feel.  May I ask why you are playing these files?  Are you streaming Spotify, Pandora, or other lower resolution service?


 
  
 I agree, that's why I said it makes a huge difference when playing high quality source (which is true, the difference is night and day). It's just that most of my older collections are of 320kbps or 256kbps AAC (few are 128 kbps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) purchased through itunes and I couldn't find much higher quality files for most of them.
  
 Nowadays, I just randomly go through the you tube playlists or spotify channels for listening the newer albums and when I like something I try to buy higher quality WAV or DSD (if available) (and no more itunes purchase). When I was going through such lists I noticed it.
  
 I think it might be inevitable at least at this point to completely relegate compressed audio as most of the streaming services (yet to check out Tidal) use them and those streaming services are the ones that exposes us to lot of new music.


----------



## SonicWarrior

jhwalker said:


> Try setting the filter to the middle position - it turns on the onboard upsampler + minimum phase filter, which tends to produce a mellower sound for this type of music, to my ear, at least.  Note that the 3D filter also produces a bit of upper octaves energy, so you might try turning it  off, as well.


 
  
 Thank you, will try that out. It's just that while listening to FLAC files, turning on the 3D provided me a very nice sound stage and I left it on like that. Let me try , turning it off while listening to lower quality files and check it out. Thanks again.


----------



## Dixter

sonicwarrior said:


> I have been using IFI Micro for almost a week now. It makes a huge difference in high quality source than playing directly from my MBP. However, for low quality MP3 (256/128 kbps), I feel the output from micro is a little bright and the sound is a tad edgy.. Anyone feel the same?
> 
> Can: Fidelio X2 (Impedance 32 Ohms)
> 3D and XBASS: On
> ...


 

 This was brought up when the Micro was first released and ifi recommendation was to use Jriver Media Center and set it so that it up samples the lower res files to x2 DSD format.
 You might try that and see if it doesn't take the edginess away from the lower res files....


----------



## ExpiredLabel

Hey can anyone provide some perspective on how iDSD stacks up against the Herus? Anyone? I felt determined to get the iDSD and A17 but recently came across the Herus and am now thinking about getting that the ipurifier and A17. Of course if I hear in the next little bit that the ZX 2 is just as good as the AK 240 well than I might be changing my mind yet one more time..

 Thanks in advanced for any related feedback


----------



## Triodemode

sonicwarrior said:


> I agree, that's why I said it makes a huge difference when playing high quality source (which is true, the difference is night and day). It's just that most of my older collections are of 320kbps or 256kbps AAC (few are 128 kbps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok got it...  I will never use itunes again either.  They pissed me off when I purchased around 150 songs back in 2005 when their 128kbs DRM (m4p) was in place on all their music.  This forced me to play each song into Sony Sound Forge, and then edit and save them as an Mp3 to play these files outside of an apple product. 
  
 Fast forward 5 years when other competitors of online music like Amazom forced Apple to elliminate that B.S. DRM from itunes (now m4a @ 256kbps).  Whe I tried to download this unrestricted version of these same files from my library on itunes, They forced me to re-purchase a portion of all these songs again and pay for a program (itunes match) to even be able to do it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Even though they now they allow drag and drop into their music players (like a hard drive) and itune's music can be played on other devices, it's too little too late for me.  I will no longer swollow Apple's stifling business practices.


----------



## EVOLVIST

expiredlabel said:


> Hey can anyone provide some perspective on how iDSD stacks up against the Herus? Anyone? I felt determined to get the iDSD and A17 but recently came across the Herus and am now thinking about getting that the ipurifier and A17. Of course if I hear in the next little bit that the ZX 2 is just as good as the AK 240 well than I might be changing my mind yet one more time..
> 
> 
> Thanks in advanced for any related feedback




There's a whole thread up in here dedicated to the Herus. Personally, I don't truck with anything that relies upon my computer's internal volume. Not a good policy.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

evolvist said:


> There's a whole thread up in here dedicated to the Herus. Personally, I don't truck with anything that relies upon my computer's internal volume. Not a good policy.


 
  
 Yes, theoretically, if you're sending out digital data from the computer to an external decoder, you will always want the "volume level" to be at 100%.


----------



## Bilbow

jhwalker said:


> Try setting the filter to the middle position - it turns on the onboard upsampler + minimum phase filter, which tends to produce a mellower sound for this type of music, to my ear, at least.  Note that the 3D filter also produces a bit of upper octaves energy, so you might try turning it  off, as well.


 

 +1 to that and to add that I found setting things up, as has been mentioned before, so that gain is between 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock at comfortable listening levels really helps here.
  
 To further add to this, I was a little disappointed with the "warmth' everyone was raving about with the iDSD Micro and tried all kinds of settings when hooked up to my Sony MDR1R-MK2s - the sound still sounded a little cold/flat to my ears, even after the recommended 200+ hours of usage.  I recently purchased a pair of XBA A2s for travelling with the iDSD and the sound is so much more musical (and warmer) that I now use them at home as well as on the go!  A brilliant combo to my ears.  As others have mentioned, headphone choice can make a huge difference to "warmth" and musicality when pairing with the iDSD Micro.


----------



## Triodemode

hookedonaudio said:


> Yes, theoretically, if you're sending out digital data from the computer to an external decoder, you will always want the "volume level" to be at 100%.


 

 If your computer's volume control is still engaged there is no guarantee you will have bit perfect playback, as you are still using the Windows kernal mixer.  Even if you have the volume up all the way up the kernal mixer is still involved, which is why most good drivers and software are written to bypass this to ensure bit perfect processing.  When I run the iDSD using Foobar200 with asio, the whole device volume area in my sound properties window is disabled.
  
 http://www.m2tech.biz/knowledge.html


----------



## tf1216

rebeljeff said:


> One of the greatest albums of all time... Live or otherwise.


 
  
 I wholeheartedly agree.  It's my favorite as well.  The version of "Little Ghetto Boy" is remarkable on this album!!


----------



## ImperialBlade

Here is a question, I am looking for what differences there are between the iFi iDSD Micro DSD and the Geek Out 450/1000?
  
 I will be pairing this with Dunu Titan 1 and Sound Magic HP200s. I will mostly be steaming music via Tidal or Google Music or Amazon Music. To me, its convenient.  I also have 120 gigs of music stored locally currently in iTunes, that I will need to rip to FLAC.
  
 Regards,
  
 Eric


----------



## EVOLVIST

>


  
  


triodemode said:


> If your computer's volume control is still engaged there is no guarantee you will have bit perfect playback, as you are still using the Windows kernal mixer.  Even if you have the volume up all the way up the kernal mixer is still involved, which is why most good drivers and software are written to bypass this to ensure bit perfect processing.  When I run the iDSD using Foobar200 with asio, the whole device volume area in my sound properties window is disabled.
> 
> http://www.m2tech.biz/knowledge.html


 
 Yeah, this is exactly what I was getting at. I use JRiver with Asio and there's a disable volume function. On the software side, at least, I'm getting bit perfect, bypassing my computer's volume, which is exactly my warning against a product like the Herus, since it requires you to fiddle with the computer's volume to get a level/signal.
  
 For $100 more you can get an iDSD micro, so one of my points is why even mess around with the Herus? Hell, for $399 USD you can get an excellent DAP. Pretty much take your pick if it's all about small and portable.


----------



## jexby

imperialblade said:


> Here is a question, I am looking for what differences there are between the iFi iDSD Micro DSD and the Geek Out 450/1000?




From a feature or sonics perspective?
Owning both- the iDSD micro has dual mono DAC, iPurifier, clocks better than femto, filter features, impedance adjustment, power from very low to very high.
All these elements in my environment make the IDSD micro sound better and more versatile across more headphones.

That being said- love having GO450 at work at it pairs perfectly with NAD HP50 for great sound, when distractions limit super critical or immersive listening.


----------



## ImperialBlade

jexby said:


> From a feature or sonics perspective?
> Owning both- the iDSD micro has dual mono DAC, iPurifier, clocks better than femto, filter features, impedance adjustment, power from very low to very high.
> All these elements in my environment make the IDSD micro sound better and more versatile across more headphones.
> 
> That being said- love having GO450 at work at it pairs perfectly with NAD HP50 for great sound, when distractions limit super critical or immersive listening.


 
 Thanks Jexby, I guess I was think more from a sonic differnce. Features are really a no-brainer, as the iDSD micro manhandles the GO450/1000.


----------



## jexby

I haven't sep


imperialblade said:


> Thanks Jexby, I guess I was think more from a sonic differnce. Features are really a no-brainer, as the iDSD micro manhandles the GO450/1000.


 

 i haven't attempted to "separate" the DAC v. Amp components of GO450 at all, whereas I know the iFi iDSD micro DAC feeding desktop amps via RCA cables is a big improvement in the overall system.
 so that being said:
  
 there's nothing the GO450 delivers that the iDSD micro "misses".
 to my myriad of headphones, iDSD delivers a bit more cohesiveness in the music- just as detailed, with a bit more punch to bass when the recording calls for it.
  
 there's also the $199 vs $499 price tag, physical size differences, etc that are likely a factor in your decision.


----------



## ImperialBlade

jexby said:


> I haven't sep
> 
> i haven't attempted to "separate" the DAC v. Amp components of GO450 at all, whereas I know the iFi iDSD micro DAC feeding desktop amps via RCA cables is a big improvement in the overall system.
> so that being said:
> ...


 
 Thanks again Jexby. I think I might start with the GO450 to start with. I can always move it to portable role If I get the iDSD Micro later. Would the Go1000 be overkill?
  
 Eric


----------



## jexby

imperialblade said:


> Thanks again Jexby. I think I might start with the GO450 to start with. I can always move it to portable role If I get the iDSD Micro later. Would the Go1000 be overkill?
> 
> Eric




There are no sonic improvements of GO1000, only more power for less sensitive headphones.
People say GO1000 is not overkill for Sennheiser HD598, 600 and the like so it's up to your headphone preference.

Note: GO450 is even too powerful for most IEMs.


----------



## ImperialBlade

jexby said:


> There are no sonic improvements of GO1000, only more power for less sensitive headphones.
> People say GO1000 is not overkill for Sennheiser HD598, 600 and the like so it's up to your headphone preference.
> 
> Note: GO450 is even too powerful for most IEMs.


 
 Thanks Jexby. I might be better just going with the iFi Micro DSD, as it will handle IEMs all the up to hard to drive planar magnet cans.
  
 Eric


----------



## jexby

imperialblade said:


> Thanks Jexby. I might be better just going with the iFi Micro DSD, as it will handle IEMs all the up to hard to drive planar magnet cans.
> 
> Eric




That's exactly how I use my iDSD micro!
You won't be disappointed.
Plus- battery operated is great for moving around directly connected to an iPhone or other device.


----------



## Triodemode

evolvist said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yup...  Or even pick up the iDSD nano for $189.


----------



## ImperialBlade

triodemode said:


> Yup...  Or even pick up the iDSD nano for $189.




Thanks Triodemode for another idea!
So what are the differences between the micro and nano?

Regards,
Eric


----------



## EVOLVIST

imperialblade said:


> Thanks Triodemode for another idea!
> So what are the differences between the micro and nano?
> 
> Regards,
> Eric




Da nano be nano sized, while dat micro be micro sized.


----------



## jexby

imperialblade said:


> Thanks Triodemode for another idea!
> So what are the differences between the micro and nano?
> 
> Regards,
> Eric




Will let others chime in, but I had nano for awhile also:
- nano DAC playes DSD material superbly. PCM good, not great.
- amp section not as wide ranging and there can be hiss with IEMs.
- no 3D or Xbass.

iFi even says- everything they learned making nano they improved greatly when developing iDSD micro.


----------



## Triodemode

imperialblade said:


> Thanks Triodemode for another idea!
> So what are the differences between the micro and nano?
> 
> Regards,
> Eric


 

 Just like the micro, IMO nothing at that price point touches the nano with respect to sound quality.  I don't own the nano personally however, there are many treads on this forum and a large number of glowing reviews on the web, not one that I have read had anything negative to say.  Do some research to become acquainted with the differences, it all comes down to what you can afford.


----------



## diamondears

triodemode said:


> Just like the micro, IMO nothing at that price point touches the nano with respect to sound quality.  I don't own the nano personally however, there are many treads on this forum and a large number of glowing reviews on the web, not one that I have read had anything negative to say.  Do some research to become acquainted with the differences, it all comes down to what you can afford.



I own a nano and you're spot on.


----------



## EVOLVIST

jexby said:


> Will let others chime in, but I had nano for awhile also:
> - nano DAC playes DSD material superbly. PCM good, not great.
> - amp section not as wide ranging and there can be hiss with IEMs.
> - no 3D or Xbass.
> ...







triodemode said:


> Just like the micro, IMO nothing at that price point touches the nano with respect to sound quality.  I don't own the nano personally however, there are many treads on this forum and a large number of glowing reviews on the web, not one that I have read had anything negative to say.  Do some research to become acquainted with the differences, it all comes down to what you can afford.




Much better answers than mine!!


----------



## EVOLVIST

I have a question, and I probably deserve a wise ass answer since I gave one earlier (sorry, Eric), but you know, there's a lot on here about the battery mode of the iDSD micro, but not much on USB mode.

USB mode, however, is the way to burn the iDSD in, though, correct? Once you've charged it up for 24 hours, if you use USB mode, you're still going to get some juice going into the iDSD while playing music, if I understand correctly - not much power, but enough to keep the internal battery from dying if you run it 24/7 for days, yeah?

I've got my USB ports set to never turn off, and of course I know that optimal performance comes from listening is battery mode. I'm just trying to understand how to burn the unit in without killing the battery in about 4 days on eco mode.

Wheew!


----------



## Triodemode

evolvist said:


> I have a question, and I probably deserve a wise ass answer since I gave one earlier (sorry, Eric), but you know, there's a lot on here about the battery mode of the iDSD micro, but not much on USB mode.
> 
> USB mode, however, is the way to burn the iDSD in, though, correct? Once you've charged it up for 24 hours, if you use USB mode, you're still going to get some juice going into the iDSD while playing music, if I understand correctly - not much power, but enough to keep the internal battery from dying if you run it 24/7 for days, yeah?
> 
> ...


 

 My thinking is while using the iDSD micro in ECO and NORMAL mode there will be enough USB  current left to keep the battery charged.  Turbo mode however may exceed the USB ability to charge and may even start to draw from the battery as well.  I seem to remember reading iFi stating there is no advantage in sound quality running the micro from battery over USB power.
  
 I leave my micro on all the time when connected to my desktop rig and also keep USB power always active.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

triodemode said:


> If your computer's volume control is still engaged there is no guarantee you will have bit perfect playback, as you are still using the Windows kernal mixer.  Even if you have the volume up all the way up the kernal mixer is still involved, which is why most good drivers and software are written to bypass this to ensure bit perfect processing.  When I run the iDSD using Foobar200 with asio, the whole device volume area in my sound properties window is disabled.
> 
> http://www.m2tech.biz/knowledge.html


 
  
 Thanks Triodemode for the more accurate and better answer.  I have become educated again.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Also, thanks much for the link to a great and easy-to-understand site.
  
 Now, opinion question, but how much audible difference do you hear between DirectSound mode and kernel streaming mode for PCM WAV files, FLAC files, and other lossless formats?  I've always liked using MPC for playing audio/video, but if there is a clear difference in quality, then I would definitely want to look into, for example, FooBar2000 or another player listed on that site.


----------



## Triodemode

hookedonaudio said:


> Thanks Triodemode for the more accurate and better answer.  I have become educated again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you are only using 16/44.1 wave or lossless files with volume at max, then there is a decent chance Direct Sound is not messing with your bit rate.  I've never compared DS to KS when using any PCM source, as a large portion of my music collection consists of 24/96-192 and DSD files. So for me to ensure I am getting unadulterated bit rates, I have always used either kernal streaming or asio with Foobar2000 (depending on my what DAC I am using and how it's driver was written).
  
 BTW, Foobar2000 is open source and completely free.  Why anyone who uses a computer and is concerned with audio quality would use any player aside from FB2K or JRiver is beyond me.  For video I use VLC exclusively.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

triodemode said:


> If you are only using 16/44.1 wave or lossless files with volume at max, then there is a decent chance Direct Sound is not messing with your bit rate.  I've never compared DS to KS when using any PCM source, as a large portion of my music collection consists of 24/96-192 and DSD files. So for me to ensure I am getting unadulterated bit rates, I have always used either kernal streaming or asio with Foobar2000 (depending on my what DAC I am using and how it's driver was written).
> 
> BTW, Foobar2000 is open source and completely free.  Why anyone who uses a computer and is concerned with audio quality would use any player aside from FB2K or JRiver is beyond me.  For video I use VLC exclusively.


 
  
 Thanks Triodemode.  By the way, MPC Classic and MPC Home Theater is also completely free and open-source (registered on SourceForge).


----------



## EVOLVIST

hookedonaudio said:


> Thanks Triodemode.  By the way, MPC Classic and MPC Home Theater is also completely free and open-source (registered on SourceForge). :tongue_smile:




Yeah, I can dig it. The only thing is, though, is that there's so many users and coders backing FB2K that you'll always have goodies, bells and whistles to go along with FB2K, where all the good coders (including those who make VST plugins, which interacts with pro audio gear) are only really backing one horse. Even JRiver will never have that grassroots backing.

The only reason I use JRiver is because it was given to me, and it's GUI is more appealing and easier to use at times. Otherwise, I have FB2K installed, as well.

Take a poll of who uses FB2K in here and I'll bet it wins by a large margin (for good reason).

VLC for video, all the way, too.


----------



## DougD

triodemode said:


> My thinking is while using the iDSD micro in ECO and NORMAL mode there will be enough USB  current left to keep the battery charged.  Turbo mode however may exceed the USB ability to charge and may even start to draw from the battery as well.  I seem to remember reading iFi stating there is no advantage in sound quality running the micro from battery over USB power.
> 
> I leave my micro on all the time when connected to my desktop rig and also keep USB power always active.


 
  
 Thanks for this answer !!!
  
 I'm seriously considering getting a Micro iDSD, and it would used in desktop mode 98% of the time, connected to a Windows tower PC. (And half of that time would be feeding active (powered) nearfield speakers, and half headphones.) 
  
 Keen to hear the experiences of thoughts about using the iFi iUSBPower with the Micro iDSD in desktop mode, as follows:
 * for Best SQ: use USB cable plugged into "data only" socket, while Micro iDSD has sufficient battery power,
 and when battery runs low
 * switch the USB cable to the "data+power" socket of the iUSBPower for the rest of the listening period. (And leave it connected that way overnight, to re-charge the battery for the next day.) 
  
 I know the Gemini USB cable is intended to be used with the iUSBPower, but that seems to be the only iFi product that doesn't get universally glowing reviews.
  
 Bonus points for anyone who wants to speak out on his/her experiences of adding a Micro iTube after the Micro iDSD.
  
 Thanks in advance !


----------



## EVOLVIST

dougd said:


> Thanks for this answer !!!
> 
> I'm seriously considering getting a Micro iDSD, and it would used in desktop mode 98% of the time, connected to a Windows tower PC. (And half of that time would be feeding active (powered) nearfield speakers, and half headphones.)
> 
> ...




Hi. Well, there isn't a USB port on the iUSB Power that's for data only. There's one for power only and another for power + data, which is where you get your music from. To cleanly seperate the two (in theory) that's what the Gemini cable is for: one end plugged into the power only and the other end plugged into the power + data, in this case giving you audio only from the Gemini's power +data port.

A key note: don't do your initial 24 hour charge using the iUSB. 

As for the iTube, I like it in line with any DAC and amp I throw at it. I'm not a huge tube fan (because I listen to music on my cans 99.3% of the time), but just a little tube sound CAN actually work magic if it's as transparent as the one utilized in the iTube. It especially brings a slightly warm glow, without getting flubby, to older recordings from the 1920s-1960s. In fact, I took mine out of line today to compare pure SS again, and the Beatles wouldn't work without it. By contrast, some Roger Waters from the 80s clearly didn't need it.

In short, go out there and price tube buffers, and you'll find the competition miles pricier. The iTube is easy to take in line and out of line, so you really can't lose.


----------



## Triodemode

evolvist said:


> Yeah, I can dig it. The only thing is, though, is that there's so many users and coders backing FB2K that you'll always have goodies, bells and whistles to go along with FB2K, where all the good coders (including those who make VST plugins, which interacts with pro audio gear) are only really backing one horse. Even JRiver will never have that grassroots backing.
> 
> The only reason I use JRiver is because it was given to me, and it's GUI is more appealing and easier to use at times. Otherwise, I have FB2K installed, as well.
> 
> ...


 

 Absolutely...  FB2K is referenced in many professional audio forums like Hydrogenaudio and Gearslutz.  Maybe it is due to my desire to tweak, but I have no issues with the customizable FB2K GUI and the plethora of other settings (via a huge array of plugins).  Does JRiver measure dynamic range or the ability to downmix mutichannel recordings?  Can it covert DSD to PCM using selectable cuttoff filters to any lossless encoder including monkey audio?
  
 I especially like and use extensively this dynamic range plugin, as it is a quick way to compare the amount of compression used between two versions of a song.  This coupled with the spectrum analyzer in Audacity, allows me to make sure I am getting the real deal in all high resolution recordings and not just an upsampled Redbook master that some labels pawn off to consumers.  I lost count on how many remasters there are floating around (particularly on classic rock and pop titles).
  
 Below is a great website tool to check if music in your collection is from the original master recording, and reveals just how much manipulation to the original recordings take place.
  
 http://dr.loudness-war.info/


----------



## giorbe

I searched far and wide anything related to using the idsd micro as a speaker amplifier.
  
 I read from the specs that it is capable of 4 watts on 16 ohms, enough power for > 90db speakers in a nearfield situation.
 I will soon try a pair of fostex 4" fullrange, ~90db, 16ohm, that are probably the safest bet being the closest to headphones, no crossover.
  
 Nobody tried, really?


----------



## BillsonChang007

giorbe said:


> I searched far and wide anything related to using the idsd micro as a speaker amplifier.
> 
> I read from the specs that it is capable of 4 watts on 16 ohms, enough power for > 90db speakers in a nearfield situation.
> I will soon try a pair of fostex 4" fullrange, ~90db, 16ohm, that are probably the safest bet being the closest to headphones, no crossover.
> ...


 
 I did try it with my speaker. I would prefer to use a dedicated speaker amplifier instead IMO


----------



## HookedOnAudio

triodemode said:


> Absolutely...  FB2K is referenced in many professional audio forums like Hydrogenaudio and Gearslutz.  Maybe it is due to my desire to tweak, but I have no issues with the customizable FB2K GUI and the plethora of other settings (via a huge array of plugins).  Does JRiver measure dynamic range or the ability to downmix mutichannel recordings?  Can it covert DSD to PCM using selectable cuttoff filters to any lossless encoder including monkey audio?
> 
> I especially like and use extensively this dynamic range plugin, as it is a quick way to compare the amount of compression used between two versions of a song.  This coupled with the spectrum analyzer in Audacity, allows me to make sure I am getting the real deal in all high resolution recordings and not just an upsampled Redbook master that some labels pawn off to consumers.  I lost count on how many remasters there are floating around (particularly on classic rock and pop titles).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Alright, I think you guys have convinced me to at least take a look at this FooBar2K.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Thanks to everyone for all the replies! Much appreciated!
 I think I am going to go with the iFi iDSD Micro. Since I will have this primarilyhooked up to my Mac, is Audiovana + or JRiver the way to go? 
  
 Regards,

 Eric


----------



## maricius

imperialblade said:


> Thanks to everyone for all the replies! Much appreciated!
> I think I am going to go with the iFi iDSD Micro. Since I will have this primarilyhooked up to my Mac, is Audiovana + or JRiver the way to go?
> 
> Regards,
> ...


 

 I personally use Audrvina Plus with my Micro iDSD as it has great iTunes integration as well its on playlist maker. Also, I have no use for upsampling as the iDSD makes both DSD and PCM sound good as it is.


----------



## EVOLVIST

triodemode said:


> I leave my micro on all the time when connected to my desktop rig and also keep USB power always active.




Say, have you tried the firmware update that's supposed to get rid of the DSD "pops?"


----------



## Sound Eq

evolvist said:


> Say, have you tried the firmware update that's supposed to get rid of the DSD "pops?"


 

 is there an software update for ifi dsd where is that


----------



## EVOLVIST

sound eq said:


> is there an software update for ifi dsd where is that


 
  
 Right here.
  
http://ifi-audio.com/3-steps-micro-idsd-firmware-upgrade/


----------



## JuleZ3C

Following the Q&A about the iDSD consumption in USB mode, I have an interrogation to submit to you :
  
 I use mine in USB power only (disclaimer : don't have golden ears I guess :/   +  no use for portable music this size..., am a long time user of a (some) rockboxed Sansa Clip+), primarily getting the line out (in preamp mode / normal power / pot around 1-2 o'clock) to a tube preamp line in (the Garage1217 Project Ember), the output of this one going to powered speakers.
  
 Sound is excellent, thank you iFi and Garage1217, but after a couple days running nonstop (and without using iDSD amp section) I get the low battery symptoms i.e. no more music, then a succession of plops every 5-15 seconds or so accompanied by the led turning blue then 'light green' (? am color blind), the transition from blue to green producing the plop (kind of the same one you get when turning the iDSD on, but louder thanks to the pot's position). Low battery state is verified by the time needed for the blue led to shut off (> 10 hours).
  
 So the question is, how come I am draining the battery using the line out and powering the iDSD with an USB 3.0 port from a tower computer that never shuts down?
 I have to add that I'm using a nice (as in expensive for a non-audiophile graded) 5 meters long USB 3.0 cable. I thought about voltage drop on such a length but I guess the iDSD wouldn't work if it didn't get the required 5V?
  
 Same story goes when plugging the iDSD line out to the line in of the powered speakers.
  
 Any idea would be appreciated 
  
  
  
  
 SIDENOTE: The addition of the Ember between the iDSD (in direct mode) and AKG K712, HifiMan RE400 brings a nice touch, difference is noticeable, albeit not night and day (through my kinda old and not pristine anymore ears, YMMV); I've been using it mainly with a Westinghouse 12AU7A carbon plates valve.
 Shame there isn't a way to get 3D for headphones through the line out...


----------



## Triodemode

evolvist said:


> Say, have you tried the firmware update that's supposed to get rid of the DSD "pops?"


 

 Strangely on my home desktop running Windows XP I never had the popping issue that others have had however, on my Asus Zenbook laptop running windows 7 this problem did show up.  So I am running the newer firmware only because my laptop requires it to alleviate these pops.


----------



## Triodemode

julez3c said:


> Following the Q&A about the iDSD consumption in USB mode, I have an interrogation to submit to you :
> 
> I use mine in USB power only (disclaimer : don't have golden ears I guess :/   +  no use for portable music this size..., am a long time user of a (some) rockboxed Sansa Clip+), primarily getting the line out (in preamp mode / normal power / pot around 1-2 o'clock) to a tube preamp line in (the Garage1217 Project Ember), the output of this one going to powered speakers.
> 
> ...


 

 First... Unless you need more power on the iDSD headphone jack, I would suggest switching to ECO mode to reduce the voltage drop on your 16 foot USB cable run.  Second is to make sure to only turn on the iDSD after the USB cable has been connected (this will ensure the iDSD is powered from the USB and not the battery).  Third, make sure that your computer settings keep your USB ports active at all times (no hibernation).  Performing these steps should hopefully resolve your problem.


----------



## JuleZ3C

Well... thanks for your reply Triodemode but
  
 - using the *preamp line out* @ +6dB (technically very low power, as line in are generally (always?) high impedance)
 - iDSD is run in USB mode
 - computer is never shut down (as in  no suspend to RAM or suspend to disk, no smart USB power or things like that), and in case of power outage, it stays off when power is restored.
  
 Also, the unit can get warmer at times, while the parameters (pot position, computer volume) stay the same. As if the battery was charging from time to time, and not continually.


----------



## Triodemode

julez3c said:


> Well... thanks for your reply Triodemode but
> 
> - using the *preamp line out* @ +6dB (technically very low power, as line in are generally (always?) high impedance)
> - iDSD is run in USB mode
> ...


 

 I knew you were using preamp out though did not realize you needed the +6 db output.  My my setup is similar to yours other than the direct mode on the RCA outputs with a much shorter cable. My iDSD runs warmer anytime I change from eco to normal mode, so I am thinking it pulls more current regardless of volume position or charging state.


----------



## Triodemode

triodemode said:


> I knew you were using preamp out though did not realize you needed the +6 db output.  My my setup is similar to yours other than direct mode on the RCA outputs with a much shorter cable. My iDSD runs warmer anytime I change from eco to normal mode, so I am thinking it pulls more current regardless of volume position or charging state.


----------



## iFi audio

julez3c said:


> Following the Q&A about the iDSD consumption in USB mode, I have an interrogation to submit to you :
> 
> I use mine in USB power only (disclaimer : don't have golden ears I guess :/   +  no use for portable music this size..., am a long time user of a (some) rockboxed Sansa Clip+), primarily getting the line out (in preamp mode / normal power / pot around 1-2 o'clock) to a tube preamp line in (the Garage1217 Project Ember), the output of this one going to powered speakers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 From your description, it seems there is too much voltage drop in the cable so the iDSD cannot charge properly.
  
 If it is okay, we suggest you try:
  
 1) Use Eco mode if headphone Amp is not in use
  
 2) Turn off if not in use, this maximises charge current

 3) Use a powered BC1.2 compatible USB Hub (Orico or similar) at the end of the 5m cable to overcome the voltage drop
  
  
  
 Also important, even though a USB3.0 port can supply 0.9A, the iDSD micro will limit itself to drawing no more than 0.5A, as the port is recognised as standard USB 2.0 port.
  
 In normal mode the power draw from the iDSD micro exceeds 0.5A, so as per its SmartPower, the battery is used to supply the extra current needed. If the voltage drop across the long cable is too large, the charging is very sloooooow, especially if the iDSD micro is left switched on.
  
 When switched on, the iDSD micro is trying to "be nice" and will not draw charge from weak USB ports in case they are smart phones, tablets etc.
  
 When switched off however (hard off, not automatic sleep mode) the iDSD micro goes into "brute force"  charging and will draw as much current up to the limit of 0.5A regardless what port it is attached to it so yes, it will suck any smartphone or tablet battery flat if you let it).
  
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Sound Eq

guys i was wondering if u can share ur expeirnece, I am using my ipod touch 5 with the ifi i notice that when I use the ipod with idsd the battery in the ipod drains so fast, is anyone else noticing this, this if of course when i use onkyo HF player


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> guys i was wondering if u can share ur expeirnece, I am using my ipod touch 5 with the ifi i notice that when I use the ipod with idsd the battery in the ipod drains so fast, is anyone else noticing this, this if of course when i use onkyo HF player


 
 you are supposed to turn on the iDSD *before *connecting to the iTouch 5 so that, the iDSD will be using its own battery instead of draining from your iPod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hope it helps
 Billson


----------



## Sound Eq

so everytime before i use the ipod i have to disconnect the cables and turn on the idsd first then connect it to the ipod, that is a bit irritating


----------



## Triodemode

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> From your description, it seems there is too much voltage drop in the cable so the iDSD cannot charge properly.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for this excellent technical explanation...  Can you also describe how how much current the IDSD micro draws in Eco mode?  Would there be any long term consequenses in leaving the unit on 24/7 in this mode, as my USB ports remain powered even when the computer is off?  It's just much more convenient for me not having to turn the iDSD on and off every day.


----------



## BillsonChang007

sound eq said:


> so everytime before i use the ipod i have to disconnect the cables and turn on the idsd first then connect it to the ipod, that is a bit irritating




Perhaps, iFi can offer you a better advice but thats my experience


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> so everytime before i use the ipod i have to disconnect the cables and turn on the idsd first then connect it to the ipod, that is a bit irritating


 
  
 Hi,

 Yes, it is recommended that you turn on the iDSD first to activate battery power mode before connection.
  
 You can always switch on afterwards but of course you are running on the iDevice's power.
  
 If you wish to keep the whole set, including phone connected but turns the iDSD off...
  
 It may be better to just leave it running if not playing for a modest amount of time.
  
 In sleep mode the battery should last around 2 days, so in normal day to day use no need to switch offor unplug, but charge in the evening overnight...
  
 We are guessing here as we are not 100% on the issue. It just needs to be switched on prior to connection. Or if left on permanently (until flat) you dont have to unplug/replug anything.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## audiotweaker

julez3c said:


> So the question is, how come I am draining the battery using the line out and powering the iDSD with an USB 3.0 port from a tower computer that never shuts down?
> I have to add that I'm using a nice (as in expensive for a non-audiophile graded) 5 meters long USB 3.0 cable. I thought about voltage drop on such a length but I guess the iDSD wouldn't work if it didn't get the required 5V?
> 
> Same story goes when plugging the iDSD line out to the line in of the powered speakers.
> ...


 
  
 Is your 5 meter USB cable listed as being 'active'?  If so, the active components (signal amplifier or repeater) built into the cable will use some or all of the available USB 3 power leaving very little or none to keep the Micro iDSD charged.
  
 Or, is your 5 meter USB cable a Corning Fiber Optic cable?  These cables have no power conductors in them and thus do not deliver USB power to your iDSD.
  
 In both cases you will have to use a powered hub at the iDSD end of the cable in order to keep it charged, as iFi Audio suggests.


----------



## Sound Eq

i want to go back to the discussion is i wanna connect the idsd to an external amp like alo mk3 what is better to use direct or preamplifier and why?
  
 my current setup guys is 
  
 ipod--idsd-- balanced into alo mk3- balanced audeze
  
 what an amazing setup
  
 but as i mentioned what is the better way to use idsd with alo mk3 is by direct or preamplifier mode


----------



## JuleZ3C

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> From your description, it seems there is too much voltage drop in the cable so the iDSD cannot charge properly.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not really thrilled by your reply (*see above*), as I'll have to use two different USB cable from now on, a short(er) one while in desktop mode (using speakers) and a longer one in couch mode (using headphones), but hey, I'll live through it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Sorry for all the quoting, not ranting at all, I just really like to understand the hows and whys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good game as always regarding your reaction time, much appreciated!
  
  


audiotweaker said:


> Is your 5 meter USB cable listed as being 'active'?  If so, the active components (signal amplifier or repeater) built into the cable will use some or all of the available USB 3 power leaving very little or none to keep the Micro iDSD charged.
> 
> Or, is your 5 meter USB cable a Corning Fiber Optic cable?  These cables have no power conductors in them and thus do not deliver USB power to your iDSD.
> 
> In both cases you will have to use a powered hub at the iDSD end of the cable in order to keep it charged, as iFi Audio suggests.


 
  
 Just a plain and simple, although well built, USB 3.0 cable.
 I may have a closer look to the Corning cable for a more permanent 'couch mode' setup.


----------



## Sound Eq

julez3c said:


> Not really thrilled by your reply (*see above*), as I'll have to use two different USB cable from now on, a short(er) one while in desktop mode (using speakers) and a longer one in couch mode (using headphones), but hey, I'll live through it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 to be honest i did not understand one dam thing here


----------



## JuleZ3C

Well, my couch, where I like to be when using headphones, is 4 meters away from my speakers, TV, computer... quite a nice place to be (also to listen to music through speakers!   )
  
 I like to use/fiddle with the iDSD and Ember controls when listening through headphones, so both are placed on a coffee table at hands reach of the couch.
 To connect the iDSD to the computer, I'm using a long USB cable running through the room. Not elegant, but it does the job.
  
 When going back to listening through speakers, both iDSD and Ember go in the shelf where the TV and speakers sit (a.k.a. The Desktop). At this point I'm just unplugging the headphones from the Ember's jack out and plug its line out to the (powered) speakers, leaving the USB cable connected, but hiding it nicely in the shelf.
  
 Apparently, using a long USB cable is not recommended for long listening sessions as the battery will be drained in any case (power mode being on Normal, USB cable being (too) long), so I'll have to use the long one only when listening through headphones (no other choice here) then switch to a shorter one when going back to listening through speakers in order recharge the depleted battery.
  
 Still waiting for a confirmation from iFi regarding the charge through a short USB cable while listening in normal mode as there seem to be differences between their previous answer (500mA max) and the different presentations given during the last steps of the crowd-design (up to 1.5A).
  
 Depending on the answer, I may try the optical fiber interface audiotweaker told about, connected to a powered USB hub next to the couch, as it could be easier to hide this fiber along the walls instead of having cables running directly from the desktop to the couch)
  
 Hope these lines make it clearer 
 If not, I can only hope the iFi team will see through my scribbled mess


----------



## john57

A 5 meter USB cable is quite long for a passive cable. Some DAC's will have a hard time in maintaining a signal lock at that distance. There is some active USB repeaters that have a extra power connection with a walmart for devices that require more power.


----------



## technobear

john57 said:


> A 5 meter USB cable is quite long for a passive cable. Some DAC's will have a hard time in maintaining a signal lock at that distance. There is some active USB repeaters that have a extra power connection with a walmart for devices that require more power.




Nonsense! I use a 5 metre Kimber USB and have no issues whatsoever with an iDSD, an Audiolab 8200CDQ or a humble Arcam rPAC. No dropouts and no charging or power issues.


----------



## jhwalker

technobear said:


> Nonsense! I use a 5 metre Kimber USB and have no issues whatsoever with an iDSD, an Audiolab 8200CDQ or a humble Arcam rPAC. No dropouts and no charging or power issues.




It's not "nonsense" :/ The fact that you don't have issues with such a configuration means diddly. The fact is, USB cables are spec'd to a max of 5 meters, so the original poster is right on the edge of that spec. Again, at such a length, some will be just fine, but some will have issues - either way, it's certainly not "nonsense".


----------



## john57

Specially at maximum sample rate.


----------



## senorx12562

jhwalker said:


> It's not "nonsense" :/ The fact that you don't have issues with such a configuration means diddly. The fact is, USB cables are spec'd to a max of 5 meters, so the original poster is right on the edge of that spec. Again, at such a length, some will be just fine, but some will have issues - either way, it's certainly not "nonsense".


 
 I've seen the published spec Technobear cites, but I wonder if there is a solution in the fact that the voltage drop is only an issue for charging, not data transmission?


----------



## Triodemode

jhwalker said:


> It's not "nonsense" :/ The fact that you don't have issues with such a configuration means diddly. The fact is, USB cables are spec'd to a max of 5 meters, so the original poster is right on the edge of that spec. Again, at such a length, some will be just fine, but some will have issues - either way, it's certainly not "nonsense".


 

 I agree...  5 meters is the industry limit for USB 2.0 cable length.  Additionally since he is running in Normal mode, the current draw of 500ma reaches the specified limit at a voltage drop of 5%.  He needs to either reduce the cable length or switch to Eco mode to maintain a correct battery charging condition.


----------



## Dixter

Another solution...  I'm using a USB cable that is 33ft long and it works great....  
  
 its the Corning USB 3.Optical Cable...      per their spec the cable can be used upto 100ft long with 5 Gb/s data rate...


----------



## john57

dixter said:


> Another solution...  I'm using a USB cable that is 33ft long and it works great....
> 
> its the Corning USB 3.Optical Cable...      per their spec the cable can be used upto 100ft long with 5 Gb/s data rate...


 
 Yes the Corning cable is a special active repeater cable. Normally USB 3.0 is limited to 3 meters for maximum 5gb/s speed. The Corning optical cable does have two small power lines in the cable to make sure that the remote transceiver has enough power to convert optical back to copper lines.


----------



## orlando1

Hello everyone:
  
 I have a new problem that I hope someone can help me with.
 I initially purchased the iFi nano DAC Headphone Amp.
  
 I decided that I was not completely happy with it, sol I traded it for the $499.00 dollar unit.
 That is the iFi Micro DAC Headphone Amp.
  
 Here is the problem I need help with -->
 I can not find a USB female to female cable ( 3 feet long or so) so I can charge the internal battery.
 using the Apple charging unit plug that fits into an 112 AC volt wall plug. It looks like I may have to wire one
 up myself.????
 HELP > HELP ?   What am I doing wrong ?  D I need a different wall charger ? ? ?
  
 Orlando . . . . .


----------



## ClieOS

orlando1 said:


> Hello everyone:
> 
> I have a new problem that I hope someone can help me with.
> I initially purchased the iFi nano DAC Headphone Amp.
> ...


 
  
 I am kind of lost here - why female to female? It should have been male to female. When did Apple make USB charger that has a male socket? It should be: Apple USB charger (female socket) -> iFi stock blue USB cable (male plug to female socket) -> iDSD micro (male plug).
  
 An perfectly fine USB cable is already included with the iDSD micro that will work with any USB power adapter, in case you missed it. If you need another one, you can find a decent one online, just search 'USB 3.0 extension cable'. A 3 feet cable should cost you less than $10.


----------



## senorx12562

dixter said:


> Another solution...  I'm using a USB cable that is 33ft long and it works great....
> 
> its the Corning USB 3.Optical Cable...      per their spec the cable can be used upto 100ft long with 5 Gb/s data rate...


 
 Does that cable charge?


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> Thank you for this excellent technical explanation...  Can you also describe how how much current the IDSD micro draws in Eco mode?  Would there be any long term consequenses in leaving the unit on 24/7 in this mode, as my USB ports remain powered even when the computer is off?  It's just much more convenient for me not having to turn the iDSD on and off every day.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As long as the iDSD micro receives enough power to draw the full 500mA and to recharge when in sleep mode, permanent on will be fine.
  
 This depends on the cable.
  
 In our testing we had a very long cable generic cable (which incidentally would not have passed USB 2.0 compliance testing but was sold through a major retailer marked as USB2.0 compliant) we found that the cable had so much DC resistance in power and ground lines, actual charging current for the iDSD micro was around 50mA.
  
 So a full recharge from flat would take around 120 Hours or 5 days with that cable and charging would require the iDSD micro to be off.
  
 If using long cables etc. the simplest solution if to use a powered, BC1.2 compliant Hub at the end of the cable just before going into the iDSD, to make sure sufficient power is available.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

julez3c said:


>


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Will any these technical questions for you.
  
  
  
 >>> "Whaaaat!? Why is that? Even if I use a powered hub?"
  
 It matter nothing if the port charging the iDSD micro has unlimited current. It must signal the iDSD micro that it is what in the USB Standard documents is called either a "dedicated charging port"  (DCP) or "charging downstream port'  (CDP). Either of these ports use the USB BC1.2 protocol to advertise their ability to supply more than 500mA.
  
 If a port is not advertised as DCP or CDP the iDSD micro will limit the current drawn from the USB but to 500mA, regardless how much current is available. Failure to do so may cause damage to the computer or in the least serious case will produce the dreaded "acessory draws too much current" message.
  
 We have to conform to the industry standards - we dont deviate as we spend a lot of time effort to understand/work to industry policies/guidelines.
  
  
  
 >>> "Even when using the line out?"
  
 Yes. While not a full Class A design the analogue stages of the DAC, the preamp and the headamp draw substantail current which has to be produced from the 5V power source 9or the 3.7V battery).
  
 In Eco mode the power lines to the Analogue stage are at +/-5.5V, so just enough to manage a 2V signal. In normal mode they are boosted to around +/-9V and in turbo mode to around +/-15V.
  
  
 >>> "What are the typical current draw @2V (ECO) and @xV (NORMAL)"
  
 Eco around 0.5A (can be a bit lower), around 0.65A for normal and around 0.8A for turbo. This is without signal.
  
 For the Line and Preamp output they pretty much always work in Class A, so signal levels or impedance make no change to the current draw.
  
 If using the headphone amp at high levels and with low impedance headphones (or with iEMatch engaged) current draw can be very high on audio peaks.
  
 As sample rates go up the USB section and the DAC also increase current draw.
  
  
 >>> "Are you saying there's no point using an external charger rated above 0.5A or USB ports BC1.1 or 1.2 compliant?"
  
 On the contrary. Using an external BC1.2 (or BC1.1) compliant charger/downstream port the iDSD micro will draw up to 1.2A charge/operating current. It is limited to 500mA only when operating directly from a standard USB port (not BC1.2 complaint).
  
 However long cable may drop the voltage substantially if current is drawn, in which case the iDSD micro cannot draw anywhere near the maximum current available, be that 0.5A or more.
  
  
 >>> "But... but... you said letting it run continually would maximize battery life
  
 It will, presuming the iDSD micro can draw sufficient current to keep the battery in best condition. If you regulary draw the battery flat as a pancake by leaving the iDSD micro on without supplying sufficient power the battery will degrade.
  
 The point being made is that if the iDSD micro encounters a "weak"  USB power source while on, it will not draw charge, as it detects such a port as "iPhone/Pad".
  
 Switching it off simply disables the "Smartphone protection" and the iDSD micro will draw charge no matter how much or little is available up to 500mA (standard USB port)  or up to 1.2A (BC1.2 Port) and it will keep charging even if only 50mA charge current is available (it will just take an eternity to charge).
  
  
  
  
*Here is some further technical background so that you are armed with more information on the whys and wheres.*
  
 Key things to remember:
  
  
 1) Excessive Cable resistace will drop enough voltage that the iDSD micro cannot draw enough current for fast charging or to operate and it may draw substantially on the battery to make up the difference.
  
 This problem seems more widespread than one might think.
  
 In our testing to find a cable to include with the iDSD micro each and every USB 2.0 cable we tried, failed to allow maximum charge current (1.2A) from a suitable source and most of these cables would have failed USB 2.0 compliance testing. There was no direct link between cost of the cables and effective DCR on the power connections either.
  
 This is why we ended up supplying a substantially more expensive USB 3.0 cable (compared to the majority of USB 2.0 cables) as this was the only one tested out of several dozend that allowed full charge current from a BC1.2 compliant charger.
  
  
 2) In battery mode the iDSD micro will charge while in sleep mode if it is attached to a "strong" power source (PC), it will indicate this as well (LED goes blue). Otherwise during play no current is drawn from USB.
  
 So if attached to smartphones etc. the iDSD micro in battery mode will not "top up"  the battery if sleeping, attached to a Laptop or PC it will top up its own battery.
  
  
 3) In USB mode the iDSD micro will draw power, current limited as indicated by the source (0.5A standard USB, 1.5A BC1.2 CDP). This is set by industry guidelines so we adhere to them so that it conforms to other charging products you may end up buying.
  
 Only in Eco mode is the current from the USB Bus on a standard USB Port sufficient to power all functions of the iDSD (no substantial charging though and cable resistance can spoil this too).
 In normal and Turbo mode the iDSD draws on the battery if it cannot draw enough enough current from then USB connection (not BC1.2 compliant port, excessive DCR etc.).
  
 If a BC1.2 compliant port is used the iDSD micro can run all internal functions on USB power in Turbo Mode and has spare current to allow some battery charging to take place.
  
 In order to maximise available charge current the iDSD micro will "sleep"  after 15 minutes and turn off DAC, analog stages and preamp/headphone amp, so most of current from the host can charge the battery. Again, USB cables with excessive DCR can spoil this otherwise lovely scheme for maintaining the battery in USB mode.
  
  
 4) In off condition the iDSD micro will ignore any "weak source" detection etc. and charge at the maximum dictated by USB Cable DCR and indicated port current limit.
  
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Triodemode

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> As long as the iDSD micro receives enough power to draw the full 500mA and to recharge when in sleep mode, permanent on will be fine.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for this advice which parallels my own thoughts...  I have been running my iDSD continuously in Eco mode using your supplied USB cable with no charging issues for several months now.  So I am confident that my unit is getting sufficient charging current.


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> Thank you for this advice which parallels my own thoughts...  I have been running my iDSD continuously in Eco mode using your supplied USB cable with no charging issues for several months now.  So I am confident that my unit is getting sufficient charging current.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 To start with, we do recommend the USB 3.0 cable that is supplied.
  
 It is actually more than very respectable - and ticks all the boxes.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Sound Eq

guys i have a question
  
 i was wondering if its better for my setup to go single ended or balanced
  
 ipod---ifi dsd--- alo mk B--- audeze lcd2 rev2
  
 I read that i need a dac that can give balanced output so will the ifi dsd and alo mk3 in balanced mode work out to be better than using it in single ended
  
 I notcied one thing in single ended setup the volume was higher than in balanced mode
  
 note i have balanced cables and single ended cables for my audeze lcd2
  
 and both single ended and balanced connectors from the ifi to alo
  
 but the question still remains can the ifi dsd work good with balanced alo mk3 or is it better using it single ended


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> i want to go back to the discussion is i wanna connect the idsd to an external amp like alo mk3 what is better to use direct or preamplifier and why?
> 
> my current setup guys is
> 
> ...


 

 Direct. Turns out the 3D and XBass of the preamp (RCA output) is meant for speakers so Direct is the best way to go if into another headphone amplifier.


----------



## Sound Eq

maricius said:


> Direct. Turns out the 3D and XBass of the preamp (RCA output) is meant for speakers so Direct is the best way to go if into another headphone amplifier.


 
 so if i use the preamp is the wrong as sometimes i like to use the xbass and 3d


----------



## Dixter

senorx12562 said:


> Does that cable charge?


 

 No this cable does not charge...    there are at least two solutions that come to mind if you require charging...   you can get a dual USB charging cable...  it has three USB connectors...
  
 one set being the pass thru USB signal and the other for plugging into your power source...  the power source can be a wired WART that plugs into your wall circuit or the power source can be
 a battery USB charger as an example..   both will charge your equipment....


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> maricius said:
> 
> 
> > Direct. Turns out the 3D and XBass of the preamp (RCA output) is meant for speakers so Direct is the best way to go if into another headphone amplifier.
> ...




No, it is not wrong. It is your choice. If you can't hear the difference (which is very small anyhow) then it does not matter.


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> so if i use the preamp is the wrong as sometimes i like to use the xbass and 3d


 

 It's not wrong if you enjoy it. I personally did not like using XBass and 3D when I connected my iDSD's DAC/preamp and Cypher Labs Duet. More evident than when using the XBass and 3D with iDSD headphone out but it sounded uncontrolled.


----------



## JuleZ3C

> Originally Posted by *iFi Audio*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, thanks a lot, very thorough and helpful information 
  
 You guys are the best !!


----------



## wojo

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> To start with, we do recommend the USB 3.0 cable that is supplied.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good to know. Is it possible to know when the source is providing more than 500mA on a BC1.2 device?


----------



## tf1216

I have spent the last couple of days comparing my friend's Hugo to my Micro iDSD. There is a difference between the two using my IEMs.  I am using their amplifiers for the comparison.  My plan is to borrow the DAC for a few more days but I will share my feelings to this point.  
  
The Hugo creates a magical blend between every layer of the sound on the recording.  For example, if the recording has a guitarist at the forefront of the song, the Hugo does an amazing job creating a cohesive sound with the other musicians.  The Micro iDSD takes a different approach, it places that guitarist right in front of you and lets it RIP.  
  
 Same thing with voices like in the "Best Audiophile Voices" albums.  The Hugo presents these tracks in a subtle, relaxing way, to make one cohesive landscape of sound.  Not the iDSD; it presents the vocalist as if they were reaching a hand out to bring you closer.  The background music is their to support their voice while allowing the vocalist to stand out and be the superstar.  
  
 To my ears, if the iDSD had a 4th filter setting, for PCM, below "Standard" you will start get the Hugo sound.


----------



## EVOLVIST

tf1216 said:


> I have spent the last couple of days comparing my friend's Hugo to my Micro iDSD. There is a difference between the two using my IEMs.  I am using their amplifiers for the comparison.  My plan is to borrow the DAC for a few more days but I will share my feelings to this point.
> 
> The Hugo creates a magical blend between every layer of the sound on the recording.  For example, if the recording has a guitarist at the forefront of the song, the Hugo does an amazing job creating a cohesive sound with the other musicians.  The Micro iDSD takes a different approach, it places that guitarist right in front of you and lets it RIP.
> 
> ...




That's very interesting. I wonder how the iDSD micro differentiates between the timbres and ranges of vocals - soparanos, altos, basses, tenors - along with the corresponding frequencies they share with musical instruments and separates them in a preexisting recorded mix as you just described.

Perhaps it's that the iDSD micro renders vocals - along with the rest of the instruments - more naturally in relation to their postitions intrinsic in the original mix? Of course a lot depends on cans, speakers, amps, etc., and how they integrate with any DAC to render the final product to your ear holes.


----------



## RickDastardly

Hi. I purchased an iFi Micro iDSD a couple of weeks ago, and I think it is fantastic product. However, over the last week I have become increasingly disheartened by a rather frequent problem. During playback, the music will randomly stop. The first few times this happened, I just had to remember which track in an album I had been listening to, select it and hit play again. This happened maybe 3 or 4 times in about 5 hours of listening on each day. I had initially thought that this was a software issue (Audirvana+ 2.0). However, the problem has changed somewhat over the past week. Now, the music will randomly stop and the mac looses connection to the micro iDSD. I've also experienced an instance when playback through the iDSD stopped but the actual music playback continued through the MacBooks internal speaker. In each case, the micro iDSD was not visible in the audio midi settings. To get it to reappear, I had to unplug the usb cable from the micro iDSD, turn it off, and then plug the usb cable back in. To confirm it was not Audirvana, I switched to using iTunes, but got the same issue (this was the instance where music continued to play through the internal speakers after the connection to the micro iDSD dropped out). 

My set-up is:
-New MacBook Pro (i5, SSD, music on external thunderbolt HDD)
>iFi Micro iDSD (using bundled usb cable on USB power, direct mode, normal gain)
>RCA (bundled) > Schiit Lyr > Audeze LCD-2r2

I have also tried using my recently delivered Geek LPS between the MacBook and the micro iDSD, but the issue still presented itself. 

Can anyone help me please? I thought I would ask here for others experience and wisdom before opening a ticket with the folks at iFi. 

Cheers,
Rich


----------



## natra084

earfonia said:


> ifi micro iDSD is still overall better than the nano, both the DAC and the Amp. The bright amp is good with dark or warm headphones. Unless you plan to pair it with something like Beyerdynamic DT880, than you better use a separate warmer amp. For example with Fidelio X1, I don't need other gear, micro iDSD sounds great with X1. So depend on your setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hi I'm still waiting on your review on the Audio-Technica AT-HA22TUBE.


----------



## DougD

> Originally Posted by *JuleZ3C* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amen to what JuleZ3C said. So wonderful to be able to get such detailed info from someone who clearly knows the products inside and out.


----------



## earfonia

natra084 said:


> hi I'm still waiting on your review on the Audio-Technica AT-HA22TUBE.


 
  
 Yes, still in queue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I have to finish ATH-W1000Z review, then Creative Sound Blaster X7, then DUNU Titan 1, then AT-HA22TUBE... so expect around February mid to end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  


tf1216 said:


> I have spent the last couple of days comparing my friend's Hugo to my Micro iDSD. There is a difference between the two using my IEMs.  I am using their amplifiers for the comparison.  My plan is to borrow the DAC for a few more days but I will share my feelings to this point.
> 
> The Hugo creates a magical blend between every layer of the sound on the recording.  For example, if the recording has a guitarist at the forefront of the song, the Hugo does an amazing job creating a cohesive sound with the other musicians.  The Micro iDSD takes a different approach, it places that guitarist right in front of you and lets it RIP.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the impression!  
 Did you try both Hugo and iDSD line out connected to a headphone amp?  iDSD line output is excellent, worth to test it with good headphone amp such as micro iCan.  Layering is much better from the line out.


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Will any these technical questions for you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, thank you very much! Really appreciate the shared information!
 Such a well thought design, excellent!


----------



## EVOLVIST

Eh, never mind. The more one noses around the interwebs the more finds out.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

tf1216 said:


> I have spent the last couple of days comparing my friend's Hugo to my Micro iDSD. There is a difference between the two using my IEMs.  I am using their amplifiers for the comparison.  My plan is to borrow the DAC for a few more days but I will share my feelings to this point.
> 
> The Hugo creates a magical blend between every layer of the sound on the recording.  For example, if the recording has a guitarist at the forefront of the song, the Hugo does an amazing job creating a cohesive sound with the other musicians.  The Micro iDSD takes a different approach, it places that guitarist right in front of you and lets it RIP.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice comparison & review.  Thanks for sharing your impressions with us.  I suppose there is no clear one is better than the other, but more of a which type of sound you prefer kind of thing, then?
  
 Is there one preference over the other for long-term several hours listening without your ears "getting tired"?


----------



## iFi audio

rickdastardly said:


> Hi. I purchased an iFi Micro iDSD a couple of weeks ago, and I think it is fantastic product. However, over the last week I have become increasingly disheartened by a rather frequent problem. During playback, the music will randomly stop. The first few times this happened, I just had to remember which track in an album I had been listening to, select it and hit play again. This happened maybe 3 or 4 times in about 5 hours of listening on each day. I had initially thought that this was a software issue (Audirvana+ 2.0). However, the problem has changed somewhat over the past week. Now, the music will randomly stop and the mac looses connection to the micro iDSD. I've also experienced an instance when playback through the iDSD stopped but the actual music playback continued through the MacBooks internal speaker. In each case, the micro iDSD was not visible in the audio midi settings. To get it to reappear, I had to unplug the usb cable from the micro iDSD, turn it off, and then plug the usb cable back in. To confirm it was not Audirvana, I switched to using iTunes, but got the same issue (this was the instance where music continued to play through the internal speakers after the connection to the micro iDSD dropped out).
> 
> My set-up is:
> -New MacBook Pro (i5, SSD, music on external thunderbolt HDD)
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Please check the USB connection at the laptop side. The cable may make poor contact, you can play music and wriggle the cable to see if it causes the problem as the music will "dropout".
  
 Can also check at the micro iDSD end too.
  
 Failing this, open a support ticket if you are stuck. Though there wont be staff at work over the weekend! (we think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## mikemercer

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please check the USB connection at the laptop side. The cable may make poor contact, you can play music and wriggle the cable to see if it causes the problem as the music will "dropout".
> 
> ...


 
 yeah I've NEVER experienced that w/ my iFi Micro, or ANY iFi products I own!
 STRANGE.
  
 Hope you work it out!!


----------



## iFi audio

tf1216 said:


> To my ears, if the iDSD had a 4th filter setting, for PCM, below "Standard" you will start get the Hugo sound.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 This does make a fair bit of sense.
  
 Someone had their 3 shredded wheat.
  

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWLBuAW1lEE
  
  
*Short Answer*
 At AMR/iFi we always seek to minimise the impact of digital filters on the music, finding the results to our ears, more "analogue" and more "realistic".
  
 Which is why we have the Bit-Perfect and Minimum Phase filter options for PCM and DSD respectively; which are mainly reduced in filter length and complexity.
  
 This is subjective and is what we like, that is all.
  
  
*Much Longer Answer*
  
*Digital Filters - Tapping and Mixing Away*
 Digital filters have multiple delay taps and mix the signal from the multiple taps to create a filter function.
  
 A representation of how this works is here:
  

  
http://www.sakurasystems.com/graphics/fig5.gif
  
  
 A representation of the acoustic effect of using such a filter is here:
  

  
http://www.sakurasystems.com/graphics/fig6.gif
  
  
 These graphics are taken from Ryohei Kusunoki's article "Non-oversampling - Digital filter-less DAC Concept" (the original source and standard for Non-OverSampling that started the whole ball rolling for AMR, Audio Note, Zanden et al.)
  
 It is worth reading and studying for avid students of NOS :
  
_http://www.sakurasystems.com/articles/Kusunoki.html_
  
  
  
  
*From Zero to Infinite Order Filters - balancing transient and frequency response *
 There is invariably a tradeoff between filter complexity and filter action. This trade-off affects the transient/impulse response and the frequency response.
  
 The least complex digital filter is a zero order digital filter, also known as "no filter" or Non-Oversampling.
  
 At AMR/iFi we call this type filter "Bit-Perfect" because it is the only digital filter that is bit-perfect (it does what it says on the tin). It has a perfect impulse response but equally it has absolutely no filter action.
  
 The most complex digital filter is an infinite order digital filter. Such a thing does not exist, but it sure is interesting as a concept. Such a filter would have a perfectly rectangular filter function (meaning immediatly above the cut-off frequency attenuation is infinite) and it would "ring" forever (literally, for an infinite amount of time) and the chain of speakers shown above would be infinitely deep.
  
 In the real world, digital filters generally tend to be neither very low order (though much of the legendary digital gear of yesteryear used very simple custom digital filters with very low filter complexity - Wadia Digimaster, Pioneer Legato Link, Luxman Fluency, Ayre MP etc.) nor near infinite order.
  
  
*One of the infamous Pioneer "Battleships" with Legatolink technology*
 We remember this technology fondly as it was very smooth sounding indeed. Sonically, it was not too far off the infamous Phillips/Marantz "Battleships" with the TDA1541A.
  
  

  
 And it had this:

  
 Note, just because a digital filter has low filter complexity does not mean implementing it has low circuit complexity - often such filters require extra DSP or FPGA cores. Put it this way, the Pioneer Legatolink was reserved for their top-tier models.
  
 The low complexity digital filters are rarely well-documented, but both Luxman Fluency and Pioneer Legatolink only have three taps. The minimum phase filter in the iDSD has more taps than that, but still very low filter complexity. As said, Bit-Perfect does not filter at all in the digital domain.
  
 A common digital filter, the SM5842 cascades:
 - a 169 tap filter with
 - a second 29 Tap filter and
 - a third 17 Tap filter.
  
 This makes for very high filter complexity and an equally complex impulse response. This filter is similar to the standard filter on the iDSD.
  
 There are designs that like to create filters with even more taps than that, tens of thousands of taps have been implemented and purported as much better than the shorter and less complex filters.
  
 DSD incidentally in its purest form has no digital filters and if using the iDSD micro, it has only an 8 Tap analogue filter, which at 2.8MHz makes for an excellent impulse response. This excellent impulse response however is "purchased" at the "expense"  of lowered resolution and more ultrasonic noise compared to standard PCM. Still we find it likely that the impulse response improvement makes up a large part of the facination of DSD, especially at higher rates where resolution and ultrasonic noise are much improved.
  
  
*In the words of Linkin Park**, "In the End"* (read: it boils down to what your ears like)
 To conclude:
  
 1) DSD has much better impulse response than (CD) PCM (though at a price) and we feel a large part of the attraction of the sonic qualities of DSD is this improved Impulse response.
  
 2) Complex filters have a poorer impulse response but better filtering/frequency response. This may or may not be preferred. The nano and micro and Pro iDSDs are at the opposite end of the design sprectrum with minimal filtering or even no filters.
  
 At AMR/iFi the route of less complex and less manipulative filters agrees most with our audible sense of how music is "real" and we will continue to work on systems that incorporate them, rather than going after the most complex digital filter in the world. But this is just one company giving you just their take, other opinions also exist.
  
 It is in the end up to the listener to decide what they prefer and to make their purchasing choice according to their own taste.
  
 Just like specialist breweries and branded beer, both exist and both are eminently drinkable.
  
 Please drink responsibly and in moderation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## semeniub

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> This does make a fair bit of sense.
> 
> ...


 

 Great post! Now the techie in me is all excited for the weekend's liquid refreshments.
  
 So in a nutshell, we are getting the benefits of NOS if we want it with the Micro iDSD, plus we can investigate the world of high-sample-rate DSD if we want too. What's not to like...


----------



## ClieOS

Also worth noting that one of Hugo's sale point is its extra long 26k tap length. It would indeed be a 'hyper standard' filter, so to speak.


----------



## tf1216

evolvist said:


> That's very interesting. I wonder how the iDSD micro differentiates between the timbres and ranges of vocals - soparanos, altos, basses, tenors - along with the corresponding frequencies they share with musical instruments and separates them in a preexisting recorded mix as you just described.
> 
> Perhaps it's that the iDSD micro renders vocals - along with the rest of the instruments - more naturally in relation to their postitions intrinsic in the original mix? Of course a lot depends on cans, speakers, amps, etc., and how they integrate with any DAC to render the final product to your ear holes.


 
 Hi EVOLVIST,
  
 If you are interested enough to pass along some song ideas and what to look for I will run share my impressions.  I have nowhere near the eloquence or the vocabulary of our favorite reviewers but I'm willing to give it a shot.
  


earfonia said:


> Yes, still in queue
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have tried the iDSD line out connected to a Portaphile Micro a while back.  I could not perceive a difference enough to know which amplifier I was listening to.  The Portaphile may have been ever so slightly ahead - which I don't have words to explain why - but not worth the price of holding onto when the iDSD does it all by itself.  The only headphones I currently have are my Alclair RSMs.  A bigger difference came when I auditioned the Forza Audio Works Copper Series cable.  The change in sound, for 99 Euros, is totally worth it to my ears and wallet.  I just need to get the cable back now as a friend is borrowing it.
  
 I have used the iDSD on my home rig and I absolutely love it there.  I have also toyed with the iTube which takes things up multiple notches.  When iFi releases the Pro line I think we are in for a real treat.  I see them getting a lot of love on the home audio/Hi-Fi forums if that gear can replicate what the Micro line does.
  


hookedonaudio said:


> Very nice comparison & review.  Thanks for sharing your impressions with us.  I suppose there is no clear one is better than the other, but more of a which type of sound you prefer kind of thing, then?
> 
> Is there one preference over the other for long-term several hours listening without your ears "getting tired"?


 
  
 Thank you.  I think you are right.  There is never a clear winner because one person might prefer one sound signature over another.  The Hugo is relaxed to my ears; like it's trying very hard to never a make mistake.  And I have not heard one mistake yet.  The iDSD knows it's a star and is willing to take the last second shot.  It may miss, but in the big game it steps up like Jordan.  That's why I love this thing.  
  
 I am no longer a single guy with money burning a hole in my pocket so the iDSD is where my money will stay.  I can't comfortably spend the money on the Hugo if it's not willing to bring the singer to me or allow the guys on the G3 Live CD to slam me in the face with their guitars.  I can listen to the Hugo all day today and thru tomorrow, that's for sure.  It's meant for that with its soft presentation.  I need more guts and grunge in my music and that's what I hear with the iDSD.


----------



## tf1216

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> This does make a fair bit of sense.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha, I love cereal.  Thank you for the DSP lesson!  It's always fun learning how our gear works!!


----------



## RickDastardly

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please check the USB connection at the laptop side. The cable may make poor contact, you can play music and wriggle the cable to see if it causes the problem as the music will "dropout".
> 
> ...




Thanks for your suggestions. I've got a weekend of work to look forward to, but I'll be in my home office. I'll try to see if manipulating the usb cable at both ends has any effect on the occurrence of dropouts. The connections seem pretty tight to me. I'll also try the USB port on the opposite side of the rMBP to see if that is any better. I will report back here and open a support ticket if necessary. 
Happy weekend to all!
Rich


----------



## RickDastardly

mikemercer said:


> yeah I've NEVER experienced that w/ my iFi Micro, or ANY iFi products I own!
> STRANGE.
> 
> Hope you work it out!!



Thanks Mike. I hope so too. 
Cheers!
Rich


----------



## mikemercer

WOW
  
 I've been impressed w/ iFi since I bought my iCAN, iUSB PowerPlant, and iPhono! But...
  
 When I got to hear the Micro iDSD w/ Alex (Rosson) at Canjam - and he kept holding it up to the screen during our chat on EnjoyTheMusic.TV
 (that was hilarious - and GREAT for iFi) I was really blown away, in a way that doesn't happen often:
  
 I was blown away by the Micros sound w/ my LCD-XCs - first and foremost - but, also, the options/feature-set!
  
 Since I got mine (and full column coming about this component at PFO BTW) I've used it as a straight-up USB DAC, Amp/DAC, 
 and I LOVE using it w/ my iPad via my CCK...
  
 But - I discovered yet another level:

 Micro iDSD - Audeze LCD-X via ALL Nordost Heimdall 2 cable loom (USB to headphone cable)
 TIDAL & Amarra sQ + Amarra Symphony as sources...
  
 BANG


----------



## technobear

mikemercer said:


> But - I discovered yet another level:
> 
> 
> Micro iDSD - Audeze LCD-X via ALL Nordost Heimdall 2 cable loom (USB to headphone cable)
> ...




Nice, but try adding the iCAN to that


----------



## Sound Eq

guys a quick question i bought hp stream 7, which is a windows 8.1 tablet, my question in order to not draw power from the tablet when connected to idsd, shall i apply the same rule that applies when i connect the idsd to an iOS, b first turning on the idsd first then connecting it to the tablet?
  
 I am using it with jriver, and boy what a difference in sound quality than when using idsd with an ipod touch, i think i am now set with sound quality my setup is the folowing
  
 hp stream 7---- idsd----balanaced to alo mk3 ---- balanced audeze lcd2 rev2


----------



## EVOLVIST

sound eq said:


> guys a quick question i bought hp stream 7, which is a windows 8.1 tablet, my question in order to not draw power from the tablet when connected to idsd, shall i apply the same rule that applies when i connect the idsd to an iOS, b first turning on the idsd first then connecting it to the tablet?
> 
> I am using it with jriver, and boy what a difference in sound quality than when using idsd with an ipod touch, i think i am now set with sound quality my setup is the folowing
> 
> hp stream 7---- idsd----balanaced to alo mk3 ---- balanced audeze lcd2 rev2




Yes. First turn it on and then connect. It's the same difference.


----------



## mikemercer

technobear said:


> Nice, but try adding the iCAN to that


 
 Well
 NOW - that would be FUN
  
 I just lent it to a buddy


----------



## Sound Eq

i think everyone here should try my setup what a magical dream am i now in with my new setup
  
 for anyone who does not mind a transportable this is a ultimate setupp
  
 hp stream 7---- idsd-----balanced alo mk3---- balanced audeze lcd2 rev2   using jriver
  
 i never thought that using a tablet as a transport would make this huge huge huge difference, i think no dap or other transport can be as a good as a windows tablet
  
 the beauty of jriver is the endless settings u can do with it


----------



## diamondears

I'd have to say that Ive discovered how good bit-perfect is with PCM. Amazing sound. There's more details, both in the LF and HF. My long-time favorite Minimum Phase now plays reserve to Bit-Perfect digital filter. 

I understand how Hugo could feel threatened and resort to crab-bing... Hugo for $2000 more versus the micro iDSD's $500?? Jeezuz...


----------



## kapanak

Could anybody here give me a comparison with the Resonessence Labs Concero HP (DAC/Amp) or even Resonessence Labs Concero HD (DAC only)?
  
 Thank you!


----------



## jexby

Quickly-

comparing the DAC sections alone (since Concero HD is a DAC only), I barely prefer the iFi iDSD micro.
it's just as good with detail retrieval, dynamics and precision as Concero HD.
but iDSD micro is a dual-mono DAC that also delivers slightly better musicality and overall presentation that is maybe just a bit more natural sounding.


----------



## EVOLVIST

technobear said:


> No, it is not wrong. It is your choice. If you can't hear the difference (which is very small anyhow) then it does not matter.




Just to clarify, are you saying that you hear little difference in the sonic quality of the iDSD micro in preamp mode, feeding an external amp, or simply very little difference without having the Xbass and 3D capabilities because someone is going preamp out?

Really, if the iDSD micro is designed right, I couldn't imagine the preamp out have very much of an effect at all, only that it's now giving a gain boost. What is that, even in turbo mode you get a max boost going out of RCAs of 5v, compared to direct at 2v. I don't know a whole helluva lot about circuitry and electricity, but what is that, a little less than a 6db gain boost?

A lot would depend on how clean the internal preamp path is.

I just got my iDSD micro on Wednesday, so it's still burning in, but this will be interesting to check, along with the preamp functions of the iTube.


----------



## maricius

evolvist said:


> Just to clarify, are you saying that you hear little difference in the sonic quality of the iDSD micro in preamp mode, feeding an external amp, or simply very little difference without having the Xbass and 3D capabilities because someone is going preamp out?
> 
> Really, if the iDSD micro is designed right, I couldn't imagine the preamp out have very much of an effect at all, only that it's now giving a gain boost. What is that, even in turbo mode you get a max boost going out of RCAs of 5v, compared to direct at 2v. I don't know a whole helluva lot about circuitry and electricity, but what is that, a little less than a 6db gain boost?
> 
> ...


 

 Preamp is quite clean. It's the EQ features that are meant for speakers that I find to sound off when being fed to an external headphone amp


----------



## EVOLVIST

maricius said:


> Preamp is quite clean. It's the EQ features that are meant for speakers that I find to sound off when being fed to an external headphone amp




You know, I can barely (or maybe not even at all) hear the Xbass or 3D in the iDSD micro running direct to my HP amp. Maybe the effects would be more pronounced if I plugged my cans straight into the iDSD jack. Contrast that to the same effects in the iCAN where they are very pronounced.

Well, this time next week will be the true test. If the iDSD burns in equal to or better than what I heard straight out of the box, then I'm in for a treat.


----------



## BillsonChang007

evolvist said:


> You know, I can barely (or maybe not even at all) hear the Xbass or 3D in the iDSD micro running direct to my HP amp. Maybe the effects would be more pronounced if I plugged my cans straight into the iDSD jack. Contrast that to the same effects in the iCAN where they are very pronounced.
> 
> Well, this time next week will be the true test. If the iDSD burns in equal to or better than what I heard straight out of the box, then I'm in for a treat.


 
 When in direct mode, the amplifier section of the iDSD is bypassed therefore, the 3D and XBass mode won't be active. When setting to pre-amp mode, it will be using speaker 3D and XBass mode. It is only when directly connected to 6.3mm of the iDSD that you get headphone 3D and XBass.
  
 Hope it helps
 Billson


----------



## pathway

Just pulled the trigger on one of these
  
 Have been looking for a while but couldn't justify the outlay though some xmas savings and selling off some other gear has freed me up in that department so am eager to find out how they perform.
  
 I am flying out to San Jose tomorrow (from the UK) so have ordered via Amazon.com and they will get shipped to my hotel by Monday with a nifty $100 saving over the UK price to boot  (shame I couldn't do this last time I traveled when the £ to $ rate was much stronger!)
  
 Really looking forward to testing them out though the last time I bought a HP Amp of any worth was 15 yrs ago (MF X-Can v2) and that is still doing great service (albeit with some NOS Mil-Spec Russian tubes) it will be a shame to see it replaced but lots of listening to do before that decision needs to be made 
  
 O.


----------



## Franatic

billsonchang007 said:


> When in direct mode, the amplifier section of the iDSD is bypassed therefore, the 3D and XBass mode won't be active. When setting to pre-amp mode, it will be using speaker 3D and XBass mode. It is only when directly connected to 6.3mm of the iDSD that you get headphone 3D and XBass.
> 
> Hope it helps
> Billson


 

 I am using my idsd micro strictly as a dac in my home setup. I had previously been using pre-amp mode so I could use the 3D and Xbass. I have changed how I use it and am now convinced it sounds better in direct mode. Even with 3D off it sounds a little hollow and a bit bright in pre-amp. In direct mode it is practically dead neutral and very full with cleaner bass and highs that sound just right. I also like the power management when combined with the iusb power in the desktop setting. I never have to touch it now.I have given this unit much attention in cabling and interfacing and have been richly rewarded with the kind of performance worthy of a much higher end component.
  
 I have a 2 pc streamer and have a Paul Pang usb card outputting through a Paul Pang usb cable to the iusb power. From there it outputs to a gemini cable and then an audiophile grade USB Female B to Female A adapter. I had this made by Forza Audioworks to replace the stock adapter in the kit(59euros). I can attest that it is worth doing. The sound coming out is pure heaven.
  
 I send that analog out through Jena Lab Symphony RCAs to my Woo WA2(all upgraded tubes). The combo of the idsd and this tube amp is awesome whether I play my T1 headphones or send it out the WA2 preamp to my main system(Exposure 2010S int amp + Monitor Audio GX-100 speakers).
  
 Truly high end performance from this idsd.....I am blown away but what I'm hearing. Very quiet noise floor, clear imaging, micro details and a musicality that is the aim of every audiophile system.
  
 I was a little annoyed by the stock adapter I had to replace. With the performance I am getting from my idsd, that is forgiven. When given the best, the idsd micro will perform beyond any reasonable expectations.
  
 Great job ifi!  No matter what type of file or type of music I send to it, it plays it wonderfully.


----------



## BillsonChang007

franatic said:


> I am using my idsd micro strictly as a dac in my home setup. I had previously been using pre-amp mode so I could use the 3D and Xbass. I have changed how I use it and am now convinced it sounds better in direct mode. Even with 3D off it sounds a little hollow and a bit bright in pre-amp. In direct mode it is practically dead neutral and very full with cleaner bass and highs that sound just right. I also like the power management when combined with the iusb power in the desktop setting. I never have to touch it now.I have given this unit much attention in cabling and interfacing and have been richly rewarded with the kind of performance worthy of a much higher end component.
> 
> I have a 2 pc streamer and have a Paul Pang usb card outputting through a Paul Pang usb cable to the iusb power. From there it outputs to a gemini cable and then an audiophile grade USB Female B to Female A adapter. I had this made by Forza Audioworks to replace the stock adapter in the kit(59euros). I can attest that it is worth doing. The sound coming out is pure heaven.
> 
> ...




And that i why I am using Garage1217 amp and making myself a RCA cable! Really great stuff indeed!


----------



## Franatic

I thought I would submit a few photos of my Forza Audioworks audiophile grade adapter. It makes some nice improvement, particularly in bass and imaging.
 If you are using high quality usb cables, I recoomend it. As you can see its smaller than the stock adapter supplied, very minimalistic.
 The small profile helps me fit my massive Jena Labs Symphony RCA cables. That is a gemini cable inserted in the adapter.
 It's small profile should also please the mobile crowd.
  


  
 Now back to the music!


----------



## EVOLVIST

franatic said:


> Now back to the music!


 
  
 Are you using ASIO buffer size of 8192 samples and USB Streaming mode in Minimum Latency mode?  That's the best setup, right, to get the most out of all file types?


----------



## Franatic

The magic of my setup is my pc audio quality. I use Jplay and Audiophile Optimizer in a 2 pc streamer. This plays an incredibly clean and stable file out of the Paul Pang usb card output port. I set my buffer size in the Jplay menu. I believe it is about 100 milliseconds. All the other buffer settings are direct. A very fine tuned engine it is with very little latency.
 I can highly recommend this setup.


----------



## EVOLVIST

franatic said:


> The magic of my setup is my pc audio quality. I use Jplay and Audiophile Optimizer in a 2 pc streamer. This plays an incredibly clean and stable file out of the Paul Pang usb card output port. I set my buffer size in the Jplay menu. I believe it is about 100 milliseconds. All the other buffer settings are direct. A very fine tuned engine it is with very little latency.
> I can highly recommend this setup.




Thank you. I find that very interesting. I use Jriver and I think if I recommended the buffer size set at 500 milliseconds, which is what I have mine setup on. But that's Jriver, though. I've never messed around with Jplay.

Just curious as to what you were using. I've only given cursory listens, but every file I've thrown at it, thus far, has played without a hitch. Only about a week left for burn in for me.

I really like the iUSB, and like you have, I'm thinking about getting the Gemini cable.


----------



## Franatic

I don't want to get this thread off topic. I can highly recommend what I have done, I can not comment on jplay in a single pc setup. I can recommend Audiophile Optimizer in any pc setup. The quality of the file the computer plays to the idsd is critical in determining your SQ. Don't believe the bits are bits line. That just didn't hold up in my experience.
 It is a whole other area from which to build sound quality.


----------



## RickDastardly

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please check the USB connection at the laptop side. The cable may make poor contact, you can play music and wriggle the cable to see if it causes the problem as the music will "dropout".
> 
> ...




I did a bunch of testing this weekend:

- Micro iDSD connected to opposite USB port on retina MacBook Pro still led to sound cutting out. 
- Wiggling USB cables at rMBP end and Micro iDSD end did not induce sound cutting out. Connections seemed good. 
- Removing blue USB cable from the chain and using the bundled short black extender (Female A; Female B) and USB cable from my main rig led to quite a long listening session (a good few hours) before I had an instance of the sound cutting out. During this period, there were one or two minor "blips" like the sound briefly cutting out, but not stopping completely. I also didn't really enjoy how the music was sounding (one DSD 128 album from Blue Coast sounded a bit rough).
- To try and rule out the rMBP as the source of my issues, I switched out the Micro iDSD for my old Arcam rDAC. I did not have any stoppages. 

So, after a while on Sunday thinking that maybe the blue USB cable was the source of the issues, I am again thinking that there might be something funny going on with the Micro iDSD. I am going to keep using the rDAC with the MacBook Pro for now, just in case the issue is with the rMBP and I've just been lucky/unlucky that it hasn't happened while I've been using the rDAC. If I haven't had any drop-outs/stoppages over the next few days, I'll be more convinced it's the Micro iDSD and will open a ticket. Any other suggestions for tests I could do?


----------



## maricius

rickdastardly said:


> I did a bunch of testing this weekend:
> 
> - Micro iDSD connected to opposite USB port on retina MacBook Pro still led to sound cutting out.
> - Wiggling USB cables at rMBP end and Micro iDSD end did not induce sound cutting out. Connections seemed good.
> ...


 

 I had similar issues regarding dropouts with my blue USB cable. It's happened before to some other owners. Mine is with the Philippines contact/distributor of iFi Audio. I'm waiting for them to contact me when they have a new one available for me. I've been living with the black angled USB cable that came with mine.


----------



## cheznous

If the Ifi micro idsd had been around last year I wouldn't have bought the Hugo. It is not a question of the Hugo being 20 % better for like 300 % more. I could go for that. No, I think the idsd is as good as. And I really like the Hugo. 
Easier to charge too and better battery life.


----------



## Sound Eq

can someone please tell me what setting should be changed in jriver, are there any specific ones that must be changed in river


----------



## EVOLVIST

sound eq said:


> can someone please tell me what setting should be changed in jriver, are there any specific ones that must be changed in river


 
  
 See this PDF from iFi on how to set this up:
  
http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_JRMC18+19.pdf
  
 I find that Jriver MC20 is the same as MC19.
  
 Now, as far as the AMR/iFi driver, I have mine set to minimum latency, which is I understand is preferable if your computer can handle it, with a sample rate of 8192 - again, if your machine can handle it. I get no pop, clicks, or any sort of jitter. Otherwise, use the "Safe" setting...or whatever your computer handles best.
  
 Someone who is more familiar can confirm is "Minimum Latency" would be the best, in theory, but I believe that to be true.


----------



## EVOLVIST

cheznous said:


> If the Ifi micro idsd had been around last year I wouldn't have bought the Hugo. It is not a question of the Hugo being 20 % better for like 300 % more. I could go for that. No, I think the idsd is as good as. And I really like the Hugo.
> Easier to charge too and better battery life.


 
  
 Very Interesting. How many hours have you burned your iDSD micro in for?


----------



## cheznous

evolvist said:


> Very Interesting. How many hours have you burned your iDSD micro in for?



Hugo about 500 hours,iDSD about 50 hours so far.


----------



## maricius

cheznous said:


> Hugo about 500 hours,iDSD about 50 hours so far.


 

 100 hours is the first target/majority burned-in


----------



## kapanak

How exactly does one burn in a DAC/amp? I always thought that just referred to how many hours it was used for, just normally playing music.


----------



## senorx12562

kapanak said:


> How exactly does one burn in a DAC/amp? I always thought that just referred to how many hours it was used for, just normally playing music.




That'll work.


----------



## kapanak

Funny how even after contacting the north american reseller, avatar acoustics, they still can't tell me how to buy one in Canada or sell me an iFi Micro iDSD lol... 

All I was told was that they have a Canadian warehouse that sometimes stocks iFi products, but currently has no Micro iDSD and won't for weeks. 

MusicDirect with current dollar and custom and duties and shipping and tax would put me close to $850 for this product.


----------



## Dixter

kapanak said:


> Funny how even after contacting the north american reseller, avatar acoustics, they still can't tell me how to buy one in Canada or sell me an iFi Micro iDSD lol...
> 
> All I was told was that they have a Canadian warehouse that sometimes stocks iFi products, but currently has no Micro iDSD and won't for weeks.
> 
> MusicDirect with current dollar and custom and duties and shipping and tax would put me close to $850 for this product.


 

 I have never had to deal with Canada markups... why couldn't you have some one buy one for you in the States and then send it to you as a gift...  would that be cheaper??


----------



## EVOLVIST

dixter said:


> I have never had to deal with Canada markups... why couldn't you have some one buy one for you in the States and then send it to you as a gift...  would that be cheaper??


 
  
 Screw it! I'll do it if he pays all postage. No sweat. I make enough stops to UPS/Fed Ex/USPS anyway, so why not. Ha! I'm actually serious.  would hate to see someone pay close to double.


----------



## Dixter

evolvist said:


> See this PDF from iFi on how to set this up:
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_JRMC18+19.pdf
> 
> ...


 

 The ifi idsd micro settings are the same in MC20 as MC19...   from what I remember is that MC20 sercumvents ( ?) the windows driver...  once setup correctly MC20 will then allow you to use all of the DSP options for other windows audio... like movies, youtube... ect...ect...   works pretty good...


----------



## Dixter

evolvist said:


> Screw it! I'll do it if he pays all postage. No sweat. I make enough stops to UPS/Fed Ex/USPS anyway, so why not. Ha! I'm actually serious.  would hate to see someone pay close to double.


 

 cool...  I'm sure there are several folks here that would help out..


----------



## EVOLVIST

maricius said:


> 100 hours is the first target/majority burned-in


 
  
 Very interesting. I believe Technobear gave me the advise early to let it burn-in for 200 hours, at least. But now I'm thinking closer to 300 hours, with very minimal listening. I've only actually listened to about 40 minutes of my iDSD's current burn-in time (which is at about 96 hours at the moment), but what I hear so far is great clarity and micro detail though my HD800s, but also an extreme lifelessness. I couldn't put my finger on what I was experiencing, until I read this article:
  
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0914/ifi_audio_micro_idsd_dac_headphone_amplifier.htm
  


> Right of the box the unit sounds quite good, *yet you really need at least 200 hours for things to settle in nicely*. After *another 100 hours *of use, the ifi Audio Micro iDSD is ready to deliver everything she was designed for at top-notch sound quality. This is why no one should ever try to reviewer a product after only a week or two of use, as the component itself has not reached its full potential! Of course wise readers and longstanding audiophiles know it takes time for a product to achieve its best sound potential.
> 
> *After about 100 hours there was still some slight dynamic compression*. *After 200 hours of use the compression was reduced to a good degree, yet at the 300 hour mark there was an extremely small bit of dynamic compression as compared to the very best I have heard at any price* (read: cost-no-object $25,000 setups). For a unit that does so many wonderful things for a mere $499, this is an outstanding achievement!
> 
> The lower mids are a slight touch warm sounding, yet are minor and if anything add a very inviting sound. Almost a teeny tiny touch tube-like... _almost_. For those of you who are curious, during break-in the uppermost frequencies were a touch on the shallow side yet opened up quite nicely. What I mean by that is, it seemed that while the instrument's sound was there, it was lacking a bit of weight and solidity. Most reviewers use 'heft and weight' for lower registers, yet it is a factor at _all_ frequencies if one pays close enough attention and one's high fidelity audio gear is capable of seamlessly and transparently delivering _all _frequencies in perfect time and phase. This reminds me, for filtering I chose the Minimum Phase setting as it sounded best to my ears within my systems.


 
  
 Bingo! That was it! Compression! Even my most fluid audiophile recordings, from 16/44.1 to 2x DSD has this sameness: a veneer that just sort of sits there, whether there's a lot going on in the mix or minimal instruments.
  
 That's one of the reasons I don't want to give it much of a listen during burn-in, because I don't want my mind to be tricked into what I'm hearing during the journey. I just want to arrive after about 300 and see if I've reached my destination.
  
 Does this 100/200/300 hour bit ring true or false to those experienced with this product?


----------



## thinblueline

kapanak said:


> Funny how even after contacting the north american reseller, avatar acoustics, they still can't tell me how to buy one in Canada or sell me an iFi Micro iDSD lol...
> 
> All I was told was that they have a Canadian warehouse that sometimes stocks iFi products, but currently has no Micro iDSD and won't for weeks.
> 
> MusicDirect with current dollar and custom and duties and shipping and tax would put me close to $850 for this product.


 
 I just ordered mine from Avatar on Amazon.  I tried contacting a Canadian reseller who listed ifi on their website.  I heard nothing back.  After weeks and weeks of going back and forth on my decision, I decided to purchase it on Amazon and have it sent to an US mailbox so I can bring it across myself.  I would still have to pay the taxes, but I won't have to risk getting dinged for brokerage fees if shipped by anyone other than USPS.  I considered waiting a while longer, but I didn't want to see the Loonie slider further downward and driving up the cost even more.  Now I just have to decide whether I want to get an iUSB and Gemini to go with the iDSD Micro.  
  
 I read in the thread that iUSB would provide minimal improvement.  I would appreciate any opinion of those with both iDSD Micro and iUSB.  Would you make the iUSB purchase again given the opportunity?


----------



## Franatic

From

thinblueline
 "read in the thread that iUSB would provide minimal improvement.  I would appreciate any opinion of those with both iDSD Micro and iUSB.  Would you make the iUSB purchase again given the opportunity? "
 ******************************************************
  
 I bought the iusb power and the gemini cable for the nano idsd, and it really helped SQ much there. For the micro its benefit is less, but it still helps lower the noise floor and improve imaging a bit. Of course the micro is in a different league from the nano. The key is to invest in 2 cables: the gemini and another decent quality usb cable. This gets expensive, as much as the micro or a little more.
  
 If you want the best performance and can afford it, I think it's worth it. I use it strictly as a dac in direct mode and I believe it performs in the setup like a $1500- $2000 device. Truly outstanding SQ. Also the power management in a desktop setup with the iusb is perfect. I never have to touch my idsd
  
 So it depends on your budget, type of usage and sound quality expectations.


----------



## estreeter

Guys, just thought I'd put this out there after roughly 8 months with each of the following - 
  
 - iDSD nano
 - Chord Hugo
 - Sony ZX1 + PHA-2
 - Furutech ADL X1 w/iPod Classic (last of the 2010 models, purchased new in 2014)
  
 I have a selection of desktop gear too, but in terms of the gear that I can throw in a satchel and take wherever I want, that's it. I also use the nano as a USB-SPDIF converter into my desktop DACs, but it mainly sees laptop duty when I cant be bothered hooking up to the Marantz or Oppo DACs. 
  
 All of the above sound good to my ears - I particularly like the Sony combo but their bizarre charging requirements and poor battery life rule them out as (trans)portable choices IMO. Hook the ZX1 to the PHA-2 and you'll be stunned by how quickly that battery icon starts to fade into the danger zone. The X1 is very good as both USB DAC and partnered with the Classic - much better battery life if a slightly less powerful combo with fullsize cans, and by now most of you will know what the Hugo can and can't do - I've used it with my iPad via the CCK and I even enjoy the Bluetooth functionality from time to time. 
  
 The point of all this ? When I sat down and asked myself what I should sell and what I want to keep to fund the purchase of the new Schiit DAC - which I estimate to be in the region of 4K USD landed here in Thailand - I quickly realised that the nano is the one portable DAC/amp I'm not willing to part with *despite that fact that it doesnt pair easily with any of my sources other than my laptop.*  Whatever the sonic pluses of the other gear, in sheer BFYB terms the iFi is an absolute marvel. I've got 3 nights on an island in the Gulf of Thailand starting tomorrow to make my final decision, but at this stage I fear that everything will go except the smallest and cheapest of the lot : if only everything in this crazy hobby was such sensational value for money. Take a bow, iFi - you nailed the nano.


----------



## Edric Li

estreeter said:


> Guys, just thought I'd put this out there after roughly 8 months with each of the following -
> 
> - iDSD nano
> - Chord Hugo
> ...


 
  
 I believe micro idsd is huge step-up from nano idsd. They are different. 
  
 As a portable user who always use Apple products as source, I found micro idsd THE right thing for me. The USB male connector is just... terrific!!!
 I sincerely hope that iFi will keep the USB male connector on the next generation of micro idsd.


----------



## maricius

evolvist said:


> Very interesting. I believe Technobear gave me the advise early to let it burn-in for 200 hours, at least. But now I'm thinking closer to 300 hours, with very minimal listening. I've only actually listened to about 40 minutes of my iDSD's current burn-in time (which is at about 96 hours at the moment), but what I hear so far is great clarity and micro detail though my HD800s, but also an extreme lifelessness. I couldn't put my finger on what I was experiencing, until I read this article:
> 
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0914/ifi_audio_micro_idsd_dac_headphone_amplifier.htm
> 
> ...


 

 For me, the sound was constantly changing in the first 100 hours, hollow to muddy to bright to muddy, etc. Past this, the sound still improved, as you said, with compression but the overall signature wasn't as erratic as before the 100 hour mark. Hence, I say 100 hours is majority of the burn in as you can more or less decide if the signature is for you while iFi recommends a full 400 hours for a complete burn in where there would be increases in technicalities.


----------



## senorx12562

evolvist said:


> Very interesting. I believe Technobear gave me the advise early to let it burn-in for 200 hours, at least. But now I'm thinking closer to 300 hours, with very minimal listening. I've only actually listened to about 40 minutes of my iDSD's current burn-in time (which is at about 96 hours at the moment), but what I hear so far is great clarity and micro detail though my HD800s, but also an extreme lifelessness. I couldn't put my finger on what I was experiencing, until I read this article:
> 
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0914/ifi_audio_micro_idsd_dac_headphone_amplifier.htm
> 
> ...


 
 Mine sounds exactly the same as the first time I used it about 2-300 hours of use ago.


----------



## BillsonChang007

They just get more muscular sounding to me (the DAC). Not sure if its the tube or the DAC gettig the burn in thought.


----------



## iFi audio

*Bristol Sound & Vision Show*

iFi will be exhibiting in the main hall at the upcoming Sound & Vision Show.

Date: 20-22th February 2015

Location: Marriott City Centre, Bristol. BS1 3AD

http://www.bristolshow.co.uk/

There you will be able audition the nano, micro and upcoming Retro range.

We look forward to seeing you there. For iCLUB members, there may even be a surprise!


----------



## TheDuke990

billsonchang007 said:


> They just get more muscular sounding to me (the DAC). Not sure if its the tube or the DAC gettig the burn in thought.


 
  
 Tube ? Are you sure that the iDSD micro uses tubes ? Or do you talk about iTube oder nano ?


----------



## EVOLVIST

maricius said:


> For me, the sound was constantly changing in the first 100 hours, hollow to muddy to bright to muddy, etc. Past this, the sound still improved, as you said, with compression but the overall signature wasn't as erratic as before the 100 hour mark. Hence, I say 100 hours is majority of the burn in as you can more or less decide if the signature is for you while iFi recommends a full 400 hours for a complete burn in where there would be increases in technicalities.







senorx12562 said:


> Mine sounds exactly the same as the first time I used it about 2-300 hours of use ago.




Were you guys listening along the way, or just letting the gear burn in 24/7 until you met your hours before having a listen?


----------



## EVOLVIST

billsonchang007 said:


> They just get more muscular sounding to me (the DAC). Not sure if its the tube or the DAC gettig the burn in thought.




Using the term "muscular" doesn't sound to appealing. What do you mean?


----------



## maricius

evolvist said:


> Were you guys listening along the way, or just letting the gear burn in 24/7 until you met your hours before having a listen?


 

 Mine was burning in both while being listened to and when not being listened to. I did have a timer on my phone to count the hours whenever I'd have to stop the playing.


----------



## senorx12562

evolvist said:


> Were you guys listening along the way, or just letting the gear burn in 24/7 until you met your hours before having a listen?


 
 If mine is on, I'm listening to it.


----------



## cheznous

senorx12562 said:


> If mine is on, I'm listening to it.



Me too. Cannot believe if can get any better but if it does I want to take the trip with it.


----------



## cheznous

estreeter said:


> Guys, just thought I'd put this out there after roughly 8 months with each of the following -
> 
> - iDSD nano
> - Chord Hugo
> ...



My only disagreement would be get micro. Nano is great but Micro superb. Regarding the Sony and battery life,absolutely. Makes the ZX1 worthless when used for digital output only. Cannot understand what it is processing to drain so much power. I get 3 hours with Sony and 10 hours plus with my Cowon P1. 
My Hugo is my back up now cos it won't recharge with 5v usb but needs separate charger.


----------



## EVOLVIST

cheznous said:


> If the Ifi micro idsd had been around last year I wouldn't have bought the Hugo. It is not a question of the Hugo being 20 % better for like 300 % more. I could go for that. No, I think the idsd is as good as. And I really like the Hugo.
> Easier to charge too and better battery life.




I keep going to back to what you've said here, and it blows me away. I've not heard the Chord Hugo, but I'd really like to.

What I find fascinating is that you prefer the iDSD micro over the Hugo.

By any chance could you to into more detail why you feel this way?

Several times I've almost purchased the Chord Hugo and something stopped me. It wasn't even the price.

Now I have pretty much the whole array of iFi micro products: iUSB, iDSD, iTube and iCan, and I'm feeling my way around them now. I'm pretty sure I'll be sending the iCan back because it simply isn't as good as my current HP amp. I even ordered the Gemini cable today. Just wondering what makes the iDSD micro so special to you, over the Hugo.


----------



## cheznous

evolvist said:


> I keep going to back to what you've said here, and it blows me away. I've not heard the Chord Hugo, but I'd really like to.
> 
> What I find fascinating is that you prefer the iDSD micro over the Hugo.
> 
> ...


 

 I prefer the Micro over the Hugo because of longer battery life and easier to recharge. In terms of sound quality I said the Hugo is excellent but I do not feel it is any better than the Micro which makes the choice a no brainer.If you had the micro and then heard the Hugo I do not think you would think "wow" this is better. That is how high I rate the Micro.


----------



## BillsonChang007

theduke990 said:


> Tube ? Are you sure that the iDSD micro uses tubes ? Or do you talk about iTube oder nano ?




Sorry. I am using the iDSD as a solo DAC and connect it to my tube amp (Garage1217 Project Sunrise III)  




evolvist said:


> Using the term "muscular" doesn't sound to appealing. What do you mean?




Muscular as in, very energetic, musical, slight hint of warm and good textures


----------



## audiotweaker

senorx12562 said:


> Mine sounds exactly the same as the first time I used it about 2-300 hours of use ago.


 
 Mine too.  After first power-up and finding the right filter settings mine sounded great -- and still does.
  
 I have not found one scrap of empirical evidence that solid-state devices improve with burn-in.  Devices with moving parts like speakers, headphones, and maybe even phono cartridges will benefit from a break-in period and, no question, vacuum tubes age and burn out.  But a properly functioning solid-state device like the Micro iDSD, I'm less convinced.
  
 Sure you read about burning in your electronic devices and sometimes even interconnects and cables in magazine reviews, but really?  Or your audiophile retailer may suggest this but I have always thought this is just an effort to put time on the clock so you become more used to the sound.
  
 I have never seen one single ABX test where 60% or greater of the test participants were able to guess a burned in device over one that is not.  Rather, I have seen a few reports where no discernible difference could be heard.
  
 As one reviewer put it, the more you burn in a device, the more you are prematurely wearing it out.  And wasting electricity in the process.  
  
 So, with this in mind I would suggest that if you don't like the sound of a device after the first couple of hours of listening, return it immediately!


----------



## thinblueline

franatic said:


> From
> 
> thinblueline
> "read in the thread that iUSB would provide minimal improvement.  I would appreciate any opinion of those with both iDSD Micro and iUSB.  Would you make the iUSB purchase again given the opportunity? "
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for your sound input.  All the chatter about ifi Pro models had me second guessing on whether I should purchase the iDSD Micro, iUSB, and Gemini together, or just the Micro alone and wait for the Pro models to become available.  In the end, I decided to do what anyone would do in my position and that is to do what is WORST for my wallet!  I purchased the iUSB and Gemini to complete my setup.  I will either be looking at the Pro models later on or purchase the Auralic Taurus MK II to go with the iDSD Micro as the DAC. 
  
 Thanks for your help again!  Happy listening.


----------



## SonicWarrior

Folks,
  
 Forgive me for my ignorance. I have some very basic questions. What is the difference between Direct and Preamp? If I chose Preamp, does the headphone output by-passes the inbuilt amplifier? I am able to control the volume through the volume control in both the modes so was confused what exactly the difference. If I want to use the micro as a pure DAC what do I need to do then?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Franatic

sonicwarrior said:


> Folks,
> 
> Forgive me for my ignorance. I have some very basic questions. What is the difference between Direct and Preamp? If I chose Preamp, does the headphone output by-passes the inbuilt amplifier? I am able to control the volume through the volume control in both the modes so was confused what exactly the difference. If I want to use the micro as a pure DAC what do I need to do then?
> 
> Thanks


 

 The Direct/Preamp switch only affects the RCA line out. It does not have any effect on the headphone amp functionality.
 Check the manual, it's helpful  http://www.wodaudio.de/Downloads/Micro-iDSD-Manual.pdf
  
 For thinblueline:
 Yes, it is a big decision in how much to invest in your infrastructure to support the micro's excellent sound quality. I decided to make a commitment and invest........at least for a few years. By then there will be a bloat of high quality, DSD DACs on the market. I'll be happy with my micro 'til then. A friend stopped by who has the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC and said my setup sounded as good as his. I've paid attention to a lot of details.


----------



## SonicWarrior

franatic said:


> The Direct/Preamp switch only affects the RCA line out. It does not have any effect on the headphone amp functionality.
> Check the manual, it's helpful  http://www.wodaudio.de/Downloads/Micro-iDSD-Manual.pdf
> 
> For thinblueline:
> Yes, it is a big decision in how much to invest in your infrastructure to support the micro's excellent sound quality. I decided to make a commitment and invest........at least for a few years. By then there will be a bloat of high quality, DSD DACs on the market. I'll be happy with my micro 'til then. A friend stopped by who has the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC and said my setup sounded as good as his. I've paid attention to a lot of details.


 

 Thank you, this is very helpful. I just checked the manual again as you suggested and it basically answers all my questions


----------



## ClieOS

estreeter said:


> Guys, just thought I'd put this out there after roughly 8 months with each of the following -
> 
> - iDSD nano
> - Chord Hugo
> ...


 
  
  


edric li said:


> I believe micro idsd is huge step-up from nano idsd. They are different.
> 
> As a portable user who always use Apple products as source, I found micro idsd THE right thing for me. The USB male connector is just... terrific!!!
> I sincerely hope that iFi will keep the USB male connector on the next generation of micro idsd.


 
  


cheznous said:


> My only disagreement would be get micro. Nano is great but Micro superb. Regarding the Sony and battery life,absolutely. Makes the ZX1 worthless when used for digital output only. Cannot understand what it is processing to drain so much power. I get 3 hours with Sony and 10 hours plus with my Cowon P1.
> My Hugo is my back up now cos it won't recharge with 5v usb but needs separate charger.


 
  
  
 Agreed with @Edric Li and @cheznous here. I'll sell nano, Hugo, ZX1 and PHA-2 and Furutech ADL X1., maybe keeping just the iPod if big storage and iTune are important to you. Instead I'll replace them with either an Sony A15 or A17 plus a Sony WMC-NWH10 (for USB OTG) and a iDSD micro. The Sony A10 series will be more than enough to replace ZX1 as a digital transport, and iDSD micro can replace nano, Hugo and PHA-1 all at the same time. More over, I don't find micro to be any lesser than Hugo as well. With CCK, it will work with iPad too. This way, you should be able to save enough for the Schiit DAC while still keeping an excellent portable + transportable setup all together.


----------



## estreeter

ClieOS, as I said I'm off to spend 3 nights on an island - think ~25deg C and all the time I need to really sit down with each of these options and make a decision. My partner in crime has zero interest in audio beyond a few pop tunes and traditional Thai music, but she's a beach person and I'm not : perfect


----------



## iFi audio

audiotweaker said:


> Mine too.  After first power-up and finding the right filter settings mine sounded great -- and still does.
> 
> I have not found one scrap of empirical evidence that solid-state devices improve with burn-in.  Devices with moving parts like speakers, headphones, and maybe even phono cartridges will benefit from a break-in period and, no question, vacuum tubes age and burn out.  But a properly functioning solid-state device like the Micro iDSD, I'm less convinced.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Purely for one's personal edification............
  
 Not that we want to open that can of wriggely worms that is called ABX testing, however statistcally speaking small scale tests have very low statistical power (meaning their results have a very low confidence of being able to be generalised). Many of the current group of blind testing advocates implement tests in a manner and fashion no concentious academic researcher would. This means we would take such test results with a fair pinch of salt.
  
 Past that, noted Audio Objectivist Douglas Self has published a number of research results in which he had to admit that "audiophile" capacitors have generally lower distortion than generic equaivalents of the same value and rating(1) and that certain types of capacitors show marked changes of distortion between "brand new" and "run for a few 100 hours"(2). In many fields of electronics outside of audio chenges in operating parameters of electronics over the first few 100 hors are taken for granted and much test equipment is "burned in"  before calibration (read: precision electronics for testing/measurements in the fields of Aerospace, Medical Electronics, Electronic Test Gear etc.)
  
 Now these points should not be taken as absolute proof that "burn in" is real, however there is enough here to not categorically reject that small and audible changes _may_ happen.
  
 Audio is subjective - so even with or without burn-in, one may still like or may not like a product.
  
 As we always say, try it in your setting with your music and your ears.
  
 Cheers.
  
  
For further information/reading
1) Douglas Self - Amplifier Distortion Article Series in Wireless World
2) Douglas Self - Self-improvement for capacitors, Linear Audio Volume 1 - http://www.linearaudio.net/article-detail/2091


----------



## RAFA

Where can I buy this, I live in EU Austria.


----------



## JuleZ3C

rafa said:


> Where can I buy this, I live in EU Austria.


 

Well...


----------



## RAFA

julez3c said:


> Well...


 
  
  
 Ok, the lazy approach did not work.
  
 BUT, it was not on the first page of the search result. Most of the shops do not have them in stock.
 They had one: http://www.hifiteamshop.eu/uber-uns/
  
 I cannot wait


----------



## Edric Li

Being a user for months, I just want to say some good words on the product . 
  
 Micro idsd is probably of the same size to PHA3, HIFI M8, Hugo, etc. but I've found idsd the only device that is really "portable": it is tall but slim. It is the only one that can be putted in my jacket pocket. 
  
 Well done. I see "sony", "apple" in the design of iFi's product. 
  
  
  
  
 There's one thing I have concern on. Since I always put my idsd vertically in my pocket and the side of headphone plug to the top, the side with the cable will have to sit in my pocket. It is not good to put the device on a fragile piece of cable, and it might hurt the USB male connector inside the device. 
  

  
 I couldn't find any solution to it. Can I get a hard case somewhere?


----------



## iFi audio

edric li said:


> Being a user for months, I just want to say some good words on the product .
> 
> Micro idsd is probably of the same size to PHA3, HIFI M8, Hugo, etc. but I've found idsd the only device that is really "portable": it is tall but slim. It is the only one that can be putted in my jacket pocket.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 The USB A Plug cnnector we use is fairly sturdy, but (as with anything in life) excessive pressure may be a problem.
  
 The easiest way would be to take some foam and cut a mask/block so that sits against the metal and clear any connector.
  
 This would take then up any strain.
  
 This is one suggestion - others may chime in with their expereinces.


----------



## essentiale

Sometimes when I try playing my higher quality 24 bit files of 96khz and 192khz I get a message from Jriver that it is unable to play in the AMR IFI USB WASAPI METHOD. I then go to options and change back to direct sound, play the song, then switch back to WASAPI. Any idea what's wrong? Thanks

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## technobear

essentiale said:


> Sometimes when I try playing my higher quality 24 bit files of 96khz and 192khz I get a message from Jriver that it is unable to play in the AMR IFI USB WASAPI METHOD. I then go to options and change back to direct sound, play the song, then switch back to WASAPI. Any idea what's wrong? Thanks




Why are you using WASAPI? Doesn't J River support ASIO?


----------



## EVOLVIST

Anyone have much experience with the Gemini cable? 

I got mine in yesterday and boy did it really make a difference with the iUSB Power. Clarity and instrument seperation is through the roof!

But I wonder if anyone has experienced a touch of brightness by adding the cable? Not enough to give me a sense of faux clarity because of tweaks to to the upper mids or highs, because in really dense music I'm now hearing nuances that were once burried...but just an extra sheen?


----------



## kbuzz

mikemercer said:


> WOW
> 
> I've been impressed w/ iFi since I bought my iCAN, iUSB PowerPlant, and iPhono! But...
> 
> ...


 
 Hello MM
  
 So now that ive read your fave about the *RAL KEB02iP Battery-Powered Headphone Amplifier / DAC on ETM.....you just have to clue us in on where it stands vs. the ifi....*


----------



## essentiale

technobear said:


> Why are you using WASAPI? Doesn't J River support ASIO?


 
 yes it does, is ASIO a better option than WASAPI?


----------



## Edric Li

I'm looking to pair my idsd with a iusbpower with a gemini cable, but I'm a little confused about the connection.

Is iusbpower designed for pairing with idac? How can I pair it with idsd?


----------



## technobear

edric li said:


> I'm looking to pair my idsd with a iusbpower with a gemini cable, but I'm a little confused about the connection.
> 
> Is iusbpower designed for pairing with idac? How can I pair it with idsd?




It's exactly the same except that the iDSD uses a USB A male instead of a USB B female.

Just use the blue cable that comes with the iDSD or use any USB cable with the adaptor supplied with the iDSD.


----------



## Edric Li

technobear said:


> It's exactly the same except that the iDSD uses a USB A male instead of a USB B female.
> 
> Just use the blue cable that comes with the iDSD or use any USB cable with the adaptor supplied with the iDSD.


 
  
 But if I connect the idsd and the iusbpower with the blue cable, I'll not be able to use the USB A male as digital input. 
  
 Is it possible to pair them up with Gemini Cable? I believe on the very first post of this thread, @MLGrado is doing so.


----------



## puskuruk

Can anyone describe micro idsd and alpha dog pairing?


----------



## EVOLVIST

franatic said:


> I have recently become a convert to upsampling my PCM. It seems to increase resonance, imaging and details. I upsample in Jriver as follows
> 44, 88 & 176 converts to 352 khz
> 48, 96 & 192 converts to 384 khz
> This formula uses factors of 2, 4 & 8 and satisfies the mathematician in my head. It also seems to sound better, especially upsampling 44 to 352 instead of 384.
> I play all files in native format and never convert. The dsd I play as is.


 
 I'm not saying this doesn't work, but man, I'm just not hearing it. Is there any particular recording that you recommend a listen with these settings?
  
 I'll tell you what _does _work in Jriver though. iFi crew, you might want to give this a try, too, and see what you think.
  
*For the Love of MONO in the Bog...*
  
 For anyone who's tried it, listening to Mono on headphones produces less than desirable results. There's little doubt that mono recordings sound best with speakers, in the home, in the car, but especially with a nice turntable and tube gear.
  
 Well, I've been playing a little bit with my iDSD micro, and after a little time, the thing is really opening up (though I admit after 216 hours of burn in, I've only put about 4 hours of listening in, tops [if that]). Nevertheless, gone is that compressed sound I had originally heard, so I don't think it's my mind getting used to it.
  
 Anyway, I'm not a big fan of changing settings within my music player. Jriver has a lot of cool features, but I've always felt that they've been just toys, when the real sound I want is what the artist ended (or as close as we can get). For some reason I started messing around with the Room Correction feature in Jriver, even though this is meant for speakers.
  
 Long story short, I've made a very close stereo simulation out of mono recordings, without any EQ, where it doesn't sound at all artificial. In fact, it still sounds very organic, very period, but without the flatness one get from mono recordings in cans. This is for those people who appreciate the difference between mono and stereo mixes, but want to keep their cans on:
  
 Go to DSP Studio - > Room Correction. Choose the Left Speaker at set it at 35.0 ft. Do not mess with the volume. Check the Reverse Polarity box (This is an aspect that helps keep the balance of what I'm proposing)
  
 Next, go to the Right Speaker. Set the Right Speaker at 24.5 ft. Then, set the volume at +2.1 db, which is also going to help you balance the "mix."
  
 Voila! There you have it! It's sort of a mock stereo effect, much like the reverse of a fold down mono mix. I've tried many mono recordings: Several Beatles albums, the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds," Jimi Hendrix's mono mixes of "Are Your Experienced" and "Axis: Bold as Love,"  The Door's "The Doors" (1967) in mono, some early Steve Miller mono, some Elvis and a little '50s jazz, by various. Oh, and Billie Holliday gets new life in mono.
  
 NOTE: This gives the sound more heft. It makes it sound fuller, without losing the nuances that makes mono mixes so unique and special.
  
 Check it out. I might have to post this on the JRiver site.


----------



## EVOLVIST

edric li said:


> But if I connect the idsd and the iusbpower with the blue cable, I'll not be able to use the USB A male as digital input.
> 
> Is it possible to pair them up with Gemini Cable? I believe on the very first post of this thread, @MLGrado is doing so.


 
  
 Yes, you have to use the adapter that comes with the iDSD micro. The one in the sealed pouch. You plug that in to the back of your iDSD and then you can plug USB B plug of the Gemini cable into the iDSD. Then run the other two USB A plugs into the iUSB Power. Remember, the one USB cable with the note on it goes into the Power + audio port, and the USB cable with the battery goes into the battery only port of the iUSB Power. So, you're port on the iUSB power goes into your computer. I'm using the translucent USB cable that came with the unit to great results.
  
 Does this help?


----------



## technobear

edric li said:


> But if I connect the idsd and the iusbpower with the blue cable, I'll not be able to use the USB A male as digital input.




The digital input is on the iUSB Power.


----------



## Edric Li

evolvist said:


> Yes, you have to use the adapter that comes with the iDSD micro. The one in the sealed pouch. You plug that in to the back of your iDSD and then you can plug USB B plug of the Gemini cable into the iDSD. Then run the other two USB A plugs into the iUSB Power. Remember, the one USB cable with the note on it goes into the Power + audio port, and the USB cable with the battery goes into the battery only port of the iUSB Power. So, you're port on the iUSB power goes into your computer. I'm using the translucent USB cable that came with the unit to great results.
> 
> Does this help?


 
  


technobear said:


> The digital input is on the iUSB Power.


 
  
 Makes a lot more sense. Thank you!


----------



## Franatic

For Evolvist
  
 I must admit that upsampling is in a category of very minor tweaks. It's impact on SQ is subtle. What I detect is a slightly smoother sound, as if the music flows a little better. I believe this is mostly due to the idsd's fantastic ability to play hi-res. Of course, as in most things digital, YRMV.
  
 Those are some interesting things you are doing in JRiver for your mono playback. I inherited some mono in my digital collection which includes a half dozen Beatles albums. I might try playing with some of those settings when I listen to it next time.
  
 So very many options to try in this digital world. It keeps things fun....unless you have OCD.


----------



## essentiale

In my Jriver, the only dsp studio items I use is the advanced limiter and equalizer where I make slight tweaks to make up for the recessed tweaks on my headphones. I've played with the other features but choose to stay away from them. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dobrescu George

I Have just joined this thread, and i wanted to ask, this thing compares to chord hugo as far as SQ goes?... I have been kind of sent from chord hugo thread here!
  
 Also, is this the best variation of what iFi is producing?
  
 Also, i don't use anything above redbook flacs, and moslty neither i don't use anything under..


----------



## cheznous

dobrescu george said:


> I Have just joined this thread, and i wanted to ask, this thing compares to chord hugo as far as SQ goes?... I have been kind of sent from chord hugo thread here!
> 
> Also, is this the best variation of what iFi is producing?
> 
> Also, i don't use anything above redbook flacs, and moslty neither i don't use anything under..



I too listen mainly to red book flac,nothing below and some HD flac.
The iDSD is currently best portable dac/amp they make. Yes, I believe sq compares favorably with Hugo. Put price difference to some 846 if possible.


----------



## Sound Eq

evolvist said:


> I'm not saying this doesn't work, but man, I'm just not hearing it. Is there any particular recording that you recommend a listen with these settings?
> 
> I'll tell you what _does _work in Jriver though. iFi crew, you might want to give this a try, too, and see what you think.
> 
> ...


 
 are using the asio driver in jriver


----------



## Dobrescu George

cheznous said:


> I too listen mainly to red book flac,nothing below and some HD flac.
> The iDSD is currently best portable dac/amp they make. Yes, I believe sq compares favorably with Hugo. Put price difference to some 846 if possible.


 
 i think i might want to put the price difference to some ie800 or ultrasone signature dj... in my country nobody imports 846, so no chance for those..
  
 is there any comparation between this and chord hugo around?...


----------



## maricius

dobrescu george said:


> i think i might want to put the price difference to some ie800 or ultrasone signature dj... in my country nobody imports 846, so no chance for those..
> 
> is there any comparation between this and chord hugo around?...


 

 There are some. Use the "Search This Thread" option


----------



## vrapan

Hi guys,
  
 anyone knows if the micro idsd will pair well/be powerful enough for the HE-560 ?


----------



## BillsonChang007

vrapan said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> anyone knows if the micro idsd will pair well/be powerful enough for the HE-560 ?




Power wise, don't worry about Micro iDSD xD it outputs 4k mW at top! Not sure about the synergy thought


----------



## maricius

vrapan said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> anyone knows if the micro idsd will pair well/be powerful enough for the HE-560 ?


 

 From my limited experiences (demoed the combo thrice, twice with a ALO hybrid cable), soundstage was very wide, depth was good, midrange was slightly hollow, bass was recording dependent, treble was smooth but slightly too forward. I preferred the HE-560 over the LCD-2, HD700, and HE-500. I almost would have gotten it but then I heard the Alpha Dog. 
  
 Similar driving requirements as the Alpha Dog, Normal power mode with IEMatch set to Off.
  
 My post on the HE-560 thread post #9754


----------



## vrapan

billsonchang007 said:


> Power wise, don't worry about Micro iDSD xD it outputs 4k mW at top! Not sure about the synergy thought


 

 Thanks for that! When you say not sure about synergy do you mean you don't think they would pair well, or you don't know if they will pair well?


----------



## maricius

puskuruk said:


> Can anyone describe micro idsd and alpha dog pairing?


 
post #8486
post #8499
  
 It's the second best rig I've heard for audiophile/high resolution music. It's the best rig I've heard for my music. My only qualms in regards to my tastes would be lack of bass impact (remedied by 1 full turn of the bass screw, sometimes with XBass) and the treble. Great soundstage width, excellent depth, most natural midrange timbre… I'll just keep praising the pairing so I'll end it with this: The sound is slightly on the warm side, just a little mid centric.


----------



## vrapan

maricius said:


> From my limited experiences (demoed the combo thrice, twice with a ALO hybrid cable), soundstage was very wide, depth was good, midrange was slightly hollow, bass was recording dependent, treble was smooth but slightly too forward. I preferred the HE-560 over the LCD-2, HD700, and HE-500. I almost would have gotten it but then I heard the Alpha Dog.
> 
> Similar driving requirements as the Alpha Dog, Normal power mode with IEMatch set to Off.
> 
> My post on the HE-560 thread post #9754


 

 Unfortunatelly I have not heard the Alpha Dog.... I did manage a very short demo of the HE-560 over a Ragnarok 2 and I was kinda taken with those. I see you use the DX90 as well, do you use that + the Micro iDSD for the Alpha Dogs?


----------



## EVOLVIST

sound eq said:


> are using the asio driver in jriver




Yes. Absolutely. While WASAPI is fine, I feel that with the iDSD only ASIO gives you the most control with any files the iDSD can play.


----------



## BillsonChang007

vrapan said:


> Thanks for that! When you say not sure about synergy do you mean you don't think they would pair well, or you don't know if they will pair well?


 
 I don't know if they will pair well since I never tried that combo


----------



## Dobrescu George

anyone thinks that idsd is the best portable after hugo?... i am searching for the best portable dac, and after some reading, i still kind of feel the need to ask this...


----------



## vrapan

dobrescu george said:


> anyone thinks that idsd is the best portable after hugo?... i am searching for the best portable dac, and after some reading, i still kind of feel the need to ask this...


 

 I came here after some made this exact comment on the Hugo thread. That is that the Micro iDSD is as close to the Hugo as you can get on a portable rig for less money. I listened to the hugo through iPhone/Spotify and a pair of CE6P yesterday and although I did not listen to it long enough for any amount of decent comments I found it extremely musical and engaging, lifting off my iP6 to a whole different level of enjoyment. If the iDSD does similar things for 1/4 of the price that's a proper feat!


----------



## maricius

vrapan said:


> Unfortunatelly I have not heard the Alpha Dog.... I did manage a very short demo of the HE-560 over a Ragnarok 2 and I was kinda taken with those. I see you use the DX90 as well, do you use that + the Micro iDSD for the Alpha Dogs?


 

 The DX90 only acts as a transport for files. It is comparable to USB from my laptop running Audirvana Plus. Yes I do.


----------



## maricius

dobrescu george said:


> anyone thinks that idsd is the best portable after hugo?... i am searching for the best portable dac, and after some reading, i still kind of feel the need to ask this...


 

 I'm waiting for iDSD and Aurender Flow comparisons.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I already own fiio x5, so i have  pretty high standard already... hugo makes i don't know, 5% difference, if idsd can make 4% for 20% of hugos money, im in!
  
 Just to be clear, the differences between x5 and chord hugo are not more than in the 5% range... x5 is already superb, and does everything almost perfect... i just wanted that 5% more, but as chord hugo costs 7Xfiio x5, i just thought to myself that even with diminishing returns law, it is a bit much compared to what i expected... ultrasone signature dj was 20% better than ultrasone dj one pro at around 4Xthe price, so it is a much better deal... also ie800 is around 35%better than ie8 at 3X the price...
  
 I know that law of diminishing retuns apply, but chord hugo is kind of a bad reason to spend that much... i might want an edition 8 or even edition 5 unlimited, and if iFi iDSD micro, the device in question here, can bring 4% more over to fiio x5, it is more than enough, and it is more than what i need, and what i expect from paying 30% of the price of chord hugo..
  
 I am sad that i have to buy without testing, but i think that i can get over this, the shop i buy from is not from my country, but it is from a neghibouring country, hungary, and the shop from there seems to sell lots of things to Romania all the time...


----------



## Edric Li

maricius said:


> I'm waiting for iDSD and Aurender Flow comparisons.


 
  +1


----------



## jaica

vrapan said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> anyone knows if the micro idsd will pair well/be powerful enough for the HE-560 ?


 

 I have a new iDSD Micro and a new set of HE-560.  They are still in breaking so I can not comment with complete certainty on the synergies.
  
 I can comment on the power.  No problem at all I am running it in normal mode and I have not needed to put the volume control pass 3:00.  I tried it in turbo mode and it works too probably keep it below 12.  
  
 About 8 hours in.  I think they sound very good together I expect everything to get better.  I like a lot of different style music, but I am listening to mainly classical with some rock and pop in between.  I am now using red book cd's in bit perfect mode. I have the nano iDSD and the micro is better out of the box. 
  
 I will probably comment in about 2 weeks.


----------



## fleemur12

I just opened my iTube in anticipation of completing my iFi micro rack, but it is in less-than-decent shape!  It looks like the case is out of alignment with the inside components.  When I flip the Digital Antidote Plus or 3D HoloSound switches, something rattles inside.  The hex screws look scored to me as well, like the unit has been opened, which is unusual b/c the unit came in a sealed box.  I purchased it from musicdirect.com, so I will ask for an exchange or refund tomorrow.  They've sent me excellent merchandise up to this point.  Just a little bummed, as I was looking forward to hearing all the micro units together tonight and I am impatient.  With yet another snowstorm on the way, it will probably be another week before I can get a properly functioning unit.


----------



## kapanak

fleemur12 said:


> I just opened my iTube in anticipation of completing my iFi micro rack, but it is in less-than-decent shape!  It looks like the case is out of alignment with the inside components.  When I flip the Digital Antidote Plus or 3D HoloSound switches, something rattles inside.  The hex screws look scored to me as well, like the unit has been opened, which is unusual b/c the unit came in a sealed box.  I purchased it from musicdirect.com, so I will ask for an exchange or refund tomorrow.  They've sent me excellent merchandise up to this point.  Just a little bummed, as I was looking forward to hearing all the micro units together tonight and I am impatient.  With yet another snowstorm on the way, it will probably be another week before I can get a properly functioning unit.


 
  
 That definitely looks like it was serviced after production, perhaps in QC or something after at the distributor. Sealed or not, it's naive that many of us think our units were untouched.
  
 Your choice is wise, return it and get a refund or exchange it.  Good luck!


----------



## EVOLVIST

It's unfortunate; I know it sucks, but Music Direct is a top flight outfit. They'll take care of you.


----------



## fleemur12

Thanks guys.


----------



## Dobrescu George

So, is this ifi idsd micro the same thing as chord hugo, but cheaper, or not?...


----------



## EVOLVIST

dobrescu george said:


> So, is this ifi idsd micro the same thing as chord hugo, but cheaper, or not?...


 
  
 It's a different company, really. Though both are based in the UK, one of them reads "Hugo" on the box, while the other reads "iFi." Moreover, the iDSD micro uses a more standard burr-brown DAC chip configuration, where I don't believe they consulted the people over at Chord to see if that was okay. In fact, I'm pretty sure their designers and engineers are different people, though there is a good possibility they are all rather smart, at least sharing human genomes and basic structural DNA.
  
 Otherwise they are quite similar products. From what I've been told, the IDSD micro shares a similar sonic signature to the Chord Hugo, but the Chord Hugo cannot decode all of the files that the iDSD micro can.
  
 By my watch, it is probably time you get an iDSD micro. Or, you might spend too much on a Hugo. Or, you might wait for the desktop model from iFi, the iDSD Pro, which will surely put an end to the debate between the Hugo and the iDSD...at least as far as SQ, if the iDSD micro's superb sound is anything to go by.


----------



## Edric Li

evolvist said:


> It's a different company, really. Though both are based in the UK, one of them reads "Hugo" on the box, while the other reads "iFi." Moreover, the iDSD micro uses a more standard burr-brown DAC chip configuration, where I don't believe they consulted the people over at Chord to see if that was okay. In fact, I'm pretty sure their designers and engineers are different people, though there is a good possibility they are all rather smart, at least sharing human genomes and basic structural DNA.
> 
> Otherwise they are quite similar products. From what I've been told, the IDSD micro shares a similar sonic signature to the Chord Hugo, but the Chord Hugo cannot decode all of the files that the iDSD micro can.
> 
> By my watch, it is probably time you get an iDSD micro. Or, you might spend too much on a Hugo. Or, you might wait for the desktop model from iFi, the iDSD Pro, which will surely put an end to the debate between the Hugo and the iDSD...at least as far as SQ, if the iDSD micro's superb sound is anything to go by.


 
  
 The desktop version is called mini iDSD.


----------



## Dobrescu George

evolvist said:


> It's a different company, really. Though both are based in the UK, one of them reads "Hugo" on the box, while the other reads "iFi." Moreover, the iDSD micro uses a more standard burr-brown DAC chip configuration, where I don't believe they consulted the people over at Chord to see if that was okay. In fact, I'm pretty sure their designers and engineers are different people, though there is a good possibility they are all rather smart, at least sharing human genomes and basic structural DNA.
> 
> Otherwise they are quite similar products. From what I've been told, the IDSD micro shares a similar sonic signature to the Chord Hugo, but the Chord Hugo cannot decode all of the files that the iDSD micro can.
> 
> By my watch, it is probably time you get an iDSD micro. Or, you might spend too much on a Hugo. Or, you might wait for the desktop model from iFi, the iDSD Pro, which will surely put an end to the debate between the Hugo and the iDSD...at least as far as SQ, if the iDSD micro's superb sound is anything to go by.


 
 I agree with you and all, but i would not be able to buy a desktop version of idsd, because i need something portable..
  
 but chord hugo has got them magics in it... but with all seriousness, i have a real problem deciding, i cannot listen to ifi thingy, because the only shop from which i can buy is in hugary, around 800km distance from me... it would have been simpler if i could had listened to it before trying to decide...


----------



## EVOLVIST

edric li said:


> The desktop version is called mini iDSD.




Cheers! I believe they changed the title from the "Mini" to the "Pro." There's a thread in here that states that I believe. But who knows what the final product will be called.


----------



## knorris908

dobrescu george said:


> I agree with you and all, but i would not be able to buy a desktop version of idsd, because i need something portable..
> 
> but chord hugo has got them magics in it... but with all seriousness, i have a real problem deciding, i cannot listen to ifi thingy, because the only shop from which i can buy is in hugary, around 800km distance from me... it would have been simpler if i could had listened to it before trying to decide...




I feel your pain Skerry2006aj.

I had the same concerns, but eventually just took the plunge based on feedback that I was hearing. I LOVE my iFi iDSD Micro, but admit that I got lucky as I wasn't able to pre-audition them either. But I've not heard anything for less than $1000 that even comes close in either portable or desktop formats. And nothing at all that supports as many file types. Easily the best $499 that I've spent on audiophile gear to date, including my Sennheiser HD-650s since the iDSD Micro makes not only them sound great, but everything else I have sounds better with it as well!

If you're willing to part with $2500 for a Chord HUGO, you have my admiration and eventually, envy, but I'm satisfied with the sound im getting now. Also remember, the Chord HUGO is getting a little "long in the tooth", and doesn't have compatibility with the latest and greatest file formats (Octo DXD is the highest support that ice seen in practical application.). There may be a new version of the HUGO right around the corner, so I'd investigate that possibility first before dropping the better part of 3 grand on a soon to be obsolete device... Nothing against the HUGO. Wish I had one to compare with!

Just my 2 cents.

Ken N.


----------



## Sound Eq

guys i need help setting my ifi dsd with river and the ifi driver
  
 in the ifi driver do u choose minimum latency and what buffer size u use
  
 i messed up the settings so much 
  
 kindly can someone share what are the settings they use for optimal use with ifi dsd
  
 from phase, to buffering, to buffer size, etc , to conversion up sampling, and the other various effect in the dap studio of jjriver


----------



## EVOLVIST

sound eq said:


> guys i need help setting my ifi dsd with river and the ifi driver
> 
> in the ifi driver do u choose minimum latency and what buffer size u use
> 
> ...


 
  
 It all depends on your computer. in JRiver, using ASIO, the buffer size is recommended at 500 milliseconds. In the iFi driver settings, this greatly depends. Optimally, for the best sound and clocking, your USB Streaming Mode will be set to: Minimum Latency. The only way to tell if your machine can handle it, is to listen. If you hear no clicks, pops, skips in the songs, then you're probably good at Minimum Latency. But also consider the ASIO buffer size, which recommended at 8192 samples.
  
 You will only know by trying. Start off with 2048 samples and "Safe" USB Streaming Mode. If you could none of the aforementioned problems, then kick it up a notch to 4096 samples and "Reliable" in the USB Streaming Mode. While you're doing this, you can always check your CPU usage, by going to your task manager and check. You can even go to the resource monitor and double check. In other words, if you're trying to get to Minimum Latency and 8192 samples, you can see how much CPU and memory your machine is using to process all of this data.
  
 For instance, me, I might peak out at 23% CPU usage, while really putting my computer through the paces with DSD files.  That's not too bad. I usually have about 2GB of memory in reserve, too. Often before listening I'll do a quick restart, just to make sure my machine is running the smoothest it can.
  
 Even at that, though, if I'm doing anything else on my computer while taxing it a bit, I'll get a little stutter in the audio, which tells to stop screwing around and just listen.
  
 So, basically it's trial and error. You'll get there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Oh, and in your options for Bitstreaming, set it to DSD. You shouldn't have to upsample anything from there, unless you really feel the need to (it's debatable if you'll hear the difference). If you don't want to jack with upstreaming, make sure in your DSP output format dialog box, that you're Output Encoding is set to: None. Your channels are set to: Source Number of Channels and your Sample rates are set to "No Change" all the way down the row.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I was not searching for the best DAC under a certain price... i was searching for the best portable DAC ever made
  
 This is why i feel like anything but hugo is going to make me feel like i bought the right one..
  
 about hd audio.. why?.. i am just curious why? there is clear evidence that you cannot hear above 20khz, if you go to an audiologist, you might want to know that you hear even under 20k... so i don't care about file types and such, only SQ... i know that chord hugo is here to stay for as short as a few years more, it reached the state of art afterall...
  
 all the comments around here made me understand that ifi idsd micro is not able to beat up chord hugo, no matter what. it will probably sound like a side-grade from my fiio x5, not a total full upgrade in all senses... a concept about what is truly better, is what is totally more transparent, more soundstange, more dynamic, more micro details, more UN-Coloured, more analytical, more layering of instruments, more these things, not another sound signature... my x5 already sounds better than i expected, and chord hugo is only 4-5% better. i wanted to know that at 25% of the price idsd is at least 3-4% better than fiio x5, but i guess that nobody around here has an x5 for comparation...
  
 anyways thanks for all the help!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Have a good listening!


----------



## Dithyrambes

dobrescu george said:


> I was not searching for the best DAC under a certain price... i was searching for the best portable DAC ever made
> 
> This is why i feel like anything but hugo is going to make me feel like i bought the right one..
> 
> ...


 
 I think dx90 sounds better than x5. I had the dx90 and though ifi micro was a huge upgrade. There is a reason people use dx90 as a transport, even though it sounds pretty great alone. Its not about what's "better", its more about your pref of sound and it has to do with what you pair with it.


----------



## d1sturb3d

dobrescu george said:


> I was not searching for the best DAC under a certain price... i was searching for the best portable DAC ever made
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


you would not possibly know that unless you try them both side by side and doing a A/B in them..but good for you..you have that kind of money to buy blindly on those high tiered goodies


----------



## Dobrescu George

dithyrambes said:


> I think dx90 sounds better than x5. I had the dx90 and though ifi micro was a huge upgrade. There is a reason people use dx90 as a transport, even though it sounds pretty great alone. Its not about what's "better", its more about your pref of sound and it has to do with what you pair with it.


 
 this is the problem, i don't want a sound signature... i want something that is totally transparent.. sound coloration should be in iems headphones and that is it... amps and DACs i want transparent, soundstage, details, layers of instruments, details, micro details, everything that can be with as less coloration as possible..


----------



## Sound Eq

evolvist said:


> It all depends on your computer. in JRiver, using ASIO, the buffer size is recommended at 500 milliseconds. In the iFi driver settings, this greatly depends. Optimally, for the best sound and clocking, your USB Streaming Mode will be set to: Minimum Latency. The only way to tell if your machine can handle it, is to listen. If you hear no clicks, pops, skips in the songs, then you're probably good at Minimum Latency. But also consider the ASIO buffer size, which recommended at 8192 samples.
> 
> You will only know by trying. Start off with 2048 samples and "Safe" USB Streaming Mode. If you could none of the aforementioned problems, then kick it up a notch to 4096 samples and "Reliable" in the USB Streaming Mode. While you're doing this, you can always check your CPU usage, by going to your task manager and check. You can even go to the resource monitor and double check. In other words, if you're trying to get to Minimum Latency and 8192 samples, you can see how much CPU and memory your machine is using to process all of this data.
> 
> ...


 

 thanks


----------



## citraian

dobrescu george said:


> I was not searching for the best DAC under a certain price... i was searching for the best portable DAC ever made
> 
> This is why i feel like anything but hugo is going to make me feel like i bought the right one..
> 
> ...



The iDSD is clearly superior to the X5 in all aspects. And, while the Hugo might have a slighly better DAC this has a way better amp. I wouldn't go for the Hugo considering the price difference vs the iDSD.


----------



## Dobrescu George

citraian said:


> The iDSD is clearly superior to the X5 in all aspects. And, while the Hugo might have a slighly better DAC this has a way better amp. I wouldn't go for the Hugo considering the price difference vs the iDSD.


 
 slightly... what means slightly?
 i mean, if chord hugo is going to be like better the way it is better to x5, there is no point in spending another 500$ on idsd
 if it is going to be just slightly, like the difference between cowon j3 and sansa clip+ i might be interested... 
 if you can make a comparation on how it is better, i would be forever greatfull!


----------



## cheznous

dobrescu george said:


> slightly... what means slightly?
> i mean, if chord hugo is going to be like better the way it is better to x5, there is no point in spending another 500$ on idsd
> if it is going to be just slightly, like the difference between cowon j3 and sansa clip+ i might be interested...
> if you can make a comparation on how it is better, i would be forever greatfull!




Both Micro and Hugo will be vast improvement over X5 on its own. 
If you can easily afford it then get Hugo. If it's too expensive get Micro. 
I have both but could live with either.


----------



## citraian

dobrescu george said:


> slightly... what means slightly?
> i mean, if chord hugo is going to be like better the way it is better to x5, there is no point in spending another 500$ on idsd
> if it is going to be just slightly, like the difference between cowon j3 and sansa clip+ i might be interested...
> if you can make a comparation on how it is better, i would be forever greatfull!



I don't have both (iDSD and Hugo) to compare side by side but as I said, the iDSD is way better than X5 in all aspects. There are people that heard the Hugo and iDSD side by side and stated that the Hugo is a bit more refined in the DAC but the iDSD has a better AMP (way better if you ask me). Just search the thread. It's hard to describe the difference in your terms given that you consider the Hugo to be only 5% better than the X5 but for me the difference is way bigger.


----------



## Dobrescu George

cheznous said:


> Both Micro and Hugo will be vast improvement over X5 on its own.
> If you can easily afford it then get Hugo. If it's too expensive get Micro.
> I have both but could live with either.


 
 okay, then what are the exact differences between hugo and idsd micro?... if i could know, i could actually just leave asking question...


----------



## cheznous

dobrescu george said:


> okay, then what are the exact differences between hugo and idsd micro?... if i could know, i could actually just leave asking question...



One costs 1400 pounds the other 415 pounds.


----------



## Dobrescu George

cheznous said:


> One costs 1400 pounds the other 415 pounds.


 
 what are the exact sound differences between them?


----------



## wisnon

dobrescu george said:


> what are the exact sound differences between them?


 
 The Micro is going to slay the Hugo in DSD, but the Hugo may have the edge in PCM (my opinion that is commonly shared). The Micro is way more versatile, perhaps too much so for some people who suffer from overwhelm. However, you need to demo them yourself and make up your own mind. We can only lead the horse to water, its the horse that must do the drinking...


----------



## maricius

dithyrambes said:


> I think dx90 sounds better than x5. I had the dx90 and though ifi micro was a huge upgrade. There is a reason people use dx90 as a transport, even though it sounds pretty great alone. Its not about what's "better", its more about your pref of sound and it has to do with what you pair with it.


 

 I agree with the DX90 being better than the X5 and the iDSD being significantly better than the DX90. I haven't A/Bed the iDSD and X5 but my previous sentence should indicated the iDSD is significantly better than the X5.
  


dobrescu george said:


> okay, then what are the exact differences between hugo and idsd micro?... if i could know, i could actually just leave asking question...


 


dobrescu george said:


> this is the problem, i don't want a sound signature... i want something that is totally transparent.. sound coloration should be in iems headphones and that is it... amps and DACs i want transparent, soundstage, details, layers of instruments, details, micro details, everything that can be with as less coloration as possible..


 
  
 You should really learn how to use the search function but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Impressions from ClieOS:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/1425#post_11040178
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/1575#post_11068857
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/1590#post_11069322
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/1920#post_11136796
  
 There are more from other members and even from other forums.


----------



## ultraman

People have certainly pointed it before but I'll say it again.
 When the batteries runs out, there is no indication before it dose it. At least it could start blinking with 1h juice left.
 This is very irritated every times it happens.
 Hopefully a firmware update can fix it.


----------



## tf1216

ultraman said:


> People have certainly pointed it before but I'll say it again.
> When the batteries runs out, there is no indication before it dose it. At least it could start blinking with 1h juice left.
> This is very irritated every times it happens.
> Hopefully a firmware update can fix it.


 
  
 Hi ultraman,
  
 Check the last part of the User Manual  You will see the part about the "LEDs".  It highlights that when the battery is low by illuminating RED. This warning comes up when the battery is on its last 10%.


----------



## knorris908

dobrescu george said:


> I was not searching for the best DAC under a certain price... i was searching for the best portable DAC ever made
> 
> This is why i feel like anything but hugo is going to make me feel like i bought the right one..
> 
> ...




I'm going to make the only suggestion that I believe makes sense for you. Ask your local retailers if they have a loaner policy for auditioning of equipment. Get both. Audition both fairly, head to head with YOUR audio setup, music files, and headphones/speakers. Not a buddies, or a store demo rack system. Decide for yourself which has better synergy with your equipment. (I believe that you will end-up keeping both for different purposes! Neither is truly "travel-sized", but one may fit you mobile needs better.). I did the same with the iFi vs FIIO eval, and while the iFi clearly won, I keep both for different situations. The iFi sounded so much better than my home gear, it is a fairly permanent component in my home system now.

As an example, Essential Audio has in their "about us" page:
"I am happy to loan equipment for you to audition in your own system without cost or obligation. The easiest way is for you to pick it up here and try it for a few days, but I also can bring it to you upon request. If you are more than say 50 miles away I can either bring it to you or ship it.
Are you from out of town but would like to come for a listen? I can pick you up at the local commuter rail station or at O'Hare airport upon request. Midway airport is possible, too.
With few exceptions, my business hours are flexible to fit your schedule. Come for an audition almost any time, I'll provide the coffee and snacks, and you can listen for as long as you wish, uninterrupted and unhurried.
I strive to provide exceptionally responsive customer support before and after the sale, 7 days a week. When you call or email me you can be assured of a fast response.
Have a problem? You can contact me any time to help solve it, and when needed I provide loaner equipment free of charge so you are not without music.
Very generous trade-in allowances and consignment.
Fair prices. I will work with you to help you achieve the most wonderful music system you can imagine within your budget. I value your business and go the extra mile to exceed your expectations."

Maybe there is a retailer in your section of the world that offers something similar?

It's not always about money. I heard you loud and clear. Some have even expressed disbelief that I spent the $499 USD on the iFi, so I get it. For others, it's a just a small drop in the bucket. I have a family to consider first, so while I can afford more, I am always hesitant to spend on myself since I never know what new "emergency" they are going to hit me with.  But that doesn't mean that I believe all have the same considerations as I do. Please don't think otherwise.


----------



## Dobrescu George

i tried to search chord hugo vs ifi idsd micro and it did not came up with any interesting resoults..
  
@knorris908 the message you wrote was very nice.. sadly i don't have a shop that has ifi and chord hugo. in fact the only shop that ships to romania is in hungary, i cannot really return ifi if i buy it and compare it to hugo at the store which has hugo... all in all, i might just buy both, keep both..
  
 i am really wondering too much, but it is normal for me to be like this, this is how i was when i bought my x5, and every other piece of equipment.


----------



## ultraman

tf1216 said:


> Hi ultraman,
> 
> Check the last part of the User Manual  You will see the part about the "LEDs".  It highlights that when the battery is low by illuminating RED. This warning comes up when the battery is on its last 10%.


 
  
 Hmmm....maybe I got a faulty unit or I didn't pay attention when the led change color.
  
 Thank you for your help,


----------



## tf1216

ultraman said:


> Hmmm....maybe I got a faulty unit or I didn't pay attention when the led change color.
> 
> Thank you for your help,


 
  
 Keep us posted and keep enjoying your iDSD


----------



## Sound Eq

dobrescu george said:


> i tried to search chord hugo vs ifi idsd micro and it did not came up with any interesting resoults..
> 
> @knorris908 the message you wrote was very nice.. sadly i don't have a shop that has ifi and chord hugo. in fact the only shop that ships to romania is in hungary, i cannot really return ifi if i buy it and compare it to hugo at the store which has hugo... all in all, i might just buy both, keep both..
> 
> i am really wondering too much, but it is normal for me to be like this, this is how i was when i bought my x5, and every other piece of equipment.


 

 just get the ifi i previously had the hugo, and its not that you will be missing anything if u buy the ifi


----------



## RAFA

24h waiting commence!


----------



## RAFA

2 Things.
  
 1. On should really read the manual first!
  
 2. Has anyone managed to put the LED into DXD or DSD mode from Android?


----------



## Dobrescu George

rafa said:


> 2 Things.
> 
> 1. On should really read the manual first!
> 
> 2. Has anyone managed to put the LED into DXD or DSD mode from Android?


 
 1. do this for every product. I actually read the manuals of product i am yet to buy! fun thing to do
  
 2. is anything android able to trasnfer that much data at once?.. i am not sure if usb from android is 3.0 speed capable..


----------



## EVOLVIST

dobrescu george said:


> 1. do this for every product. I actually read the manuals of product i am yet to buy! fun thing to do.




It IS a fun thing to do! I probably read the iFi manuals 20 times before I made the purchase.

Now, if only women came with manuals like that I would have stayed out of trouble most of my life.


----------



## earfonia

Recently I reviewed the new Audio-Technica headphone, ATH-W1000Z, and the ifi stacks blew me away! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



ifi micro iDSD >> ifi micro iTube >> ifi micro iCan >> Maestoso
ifi micro iDSD settings: Filter: Bit-Perfect, Power mode: Normal, Line Out: Direct.
ifi micro iTube set as buffer (0 dB).
ifi micro iCan set at 0 dB gain.
 

  
Just realized the ifi stacks sound simply awesome! Practically all the goodness of tube and solid state perfectly mixed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I was skeptical when I heard about micro iTube. My friend recently bought it, and I borrow it from him to test it with my micro iDSD and micro iCan.
After using it for sometime, now I want to buy it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 
Kudos to ifi!


----------



## EVOLVIST

earfonia said:


> Recently I reviewed the new Audio-Technica headphone, ATH-W1000Z, and the ifi stacks blew me away!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good for you! It will blow your mind how much extra layering and clarity you can get with the iUSB and/or the Gemini cable from iFi (all depending on mix and mastering, of course).


----------



## SonicWarrior

earfonia said:


> Recently I reviewed the new Audio-Technica headphone, ATH-W1000Z, and the ifi stacks blew me away!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Forgive my ignorance. Why lineout is Direct and not Preamp in this set up? You are using iCan as the amplifier right? Is there any specific reason you'd want an amplified signal from idsd's internal amp to be fed to ican? Sorry if my question sounds noob but I am curious if there is anything wrong in my understanding.


----------



## earfonia

sonicwarrior said:


> Forgive my ignorance. Why lineout is Direct and not Preamp in this set up? You are using iCan as the amplifier right? Is there any specific reason you'd want an amplified signal from idsd's internal amp to be fed to ican? Sorry if my question sounds noob but I am curious if there is anything wrong in my understanding.


 
  
 The connection as you can see from my post:
ifi micro iDSD >> ifi micro iTube >> ifi micro iCan >> Headphone
  
 I just want to use iDSD as DAC, bypassing it's volume control. That's why I set the line out mode to direct.
 From the DAC (iDSD) the signal goes through iTube, only to use the iTube as buffer, no additional gain by the iTube. The iTube will give tube flavor to the signal, kind of harmonic enrichment.
 From iTube, the signal goes to iCan which i use as the amplifier. The volume is adjusted by the volume control of the iCan.
  
 I didn't feed the signal from iDSD internal headphone amplifer to iCan. The signal to iCan is from the line output of the iDSD, not from the iDSD internal headphone amplifer.
 The reason why I want to use iCan is because it is a much better amplifier as compared to the internal headphone amplifer in iDSD.


----------



## Triodemode

sonicwarrior said:


> Forgive my ignorance. Why lineout is Direct and not Preamp in this set up? You are using iCan as the amplifier right? Is there any specific reason you'd want an amplified signal from idsd's internal amp to be fed to ican? Sorry if my question sounds noob but I am curious if there is anything wrong in my understanding.


 

 Anytime the iDSD is connected to an external amplifier that has a volume control (like the iCAN), the iDSD should always be set to direct mode to maintain the purest signal path.  Running two preamps and volume controls back to back makes no sense.  In direct mode the iDSD's amplifier and volume control is bypassed, 'directly' connecting the DAC section to the RCA jacks.


----------



## Sound Eq

earfonia said:


> Recently I reviewed the new Audio-Technica headphone, ATH-W1000Z, and the ifi stacks blew me away!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 can you please explain more of what the itube adds to the mix, i am really intrested to know more about what it does to the sound signature
  
 also did u try the tweak below
 If you have a ifi iTube this tweak is for you... from; Audio Asylum: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tweaks&m=195687    "Teflon Tape on Tube Bakelite"


----------



## Dobrescu George

does the ifi idsd micro charge when listening through usb? i mean, does the current still pass rhtough battery, or straight from the usb?


----------



## earfonia

dobrescu george said:


> does the ifi idsd micro charge when listening through usb? i mean, does the current still pass rhtough battery, or straight from the usb?


 
  
 Please do a search for more detail. It has been explained many times here.
 When you turn on iDSD before connecting to USB, it will use battery power. But when you turn on after connected to USB, it will use power from USB. Charging is depending on the power mode and the ability of the usb port.
  


sound eq said:


> can you please explain more of what the itube adds to the mix, i am really intrested to know more about what it does to the sound signature
> 
> also did u try the tweak below
> If you have a ifi iTube this tweak is for you... from; Audio Asylum: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tweaks&m=195687    "Teflon Tape on Tube Bakelite"


 
  
 In short, I mentioned in the review of the W1000Z. Longer version, I need sometime to know more of the characteristic of iTube to give accurate impression.
  
 Thanks for the link! Interesting teflon tape tweak. Some tubes seem prone to vibration. Yesterday I bought 2 vintage tubes from a friend, NOS of Amperex 6922 PQ made by Philips in 1969 (USA), for my AT-HA22TUBE. When I plugged and unplugged headphone jack to the HA22TUBE, I can hear vibrating metal sound caused by the movement of the tubes. No such metallic sound with the stock tubes, only with the Amperex tubes. Not sure if it can be improved by the teflon tape tweak though 
  
 The iTube, as mentioned, is not mine. I borrow it from my friend. So cannot tweak it.


----------



## BillsonChang007

dobrescu george said:


> does the ifi idsd micro charge when listening through usb? i mean, does the current still pass rhtough battery, or straight from the usb?


 
 The iFi Micro iDSD USB charge this way:
 When switched off and connected to power, it will charge
 When in Eco Mode, the unit will play and charge at the same time.
 Normal Mode, Unit stop charging and rely fully on USB power
 Turbo Mode, the unit will not charge, uses power from USB and the battery itself. 
  
 *The above is only applicable if you turn on the unit AFTER you connect it to a source via USB* 
  
 If you turn on the unit BEFORE connecting, the unit will fully rely on its built in battery.


----------



## Dobrescu George

billsonchang007 said:


> The iFi Micro iDSD USB charge this way:
> When switched off and connected to power, it will charge
> When in Eco Mode, the unit will play and charge at the same time.
> Normal Mode, Unit stop charging and rely fully on USB power
> ...


 
 this is a very interesting thing
  
 are there any differences in SQ or only in power when using eco vs normal vs turbo?
  
 What DAC is in idsd micro?... i could not fiind where it says.


----------



## iFi audio

*Cutting-Edge, Portable **High-Definition Audio on iOS (update)*
  
 In our opinion, the existing Smartphone is actually more dynamic and more advanced than many dedicated Digital Audio Players (DAPs).
  
 In the last two days, Onkyo Hi-Res Player and KaiserTone have both announced updates – and they are neat ones at that.
  
 Here is a brief summary.
  
*Onkyo HF Player (v2.0.0)*

  
 1.  Support for iOS 8 and 64-Bit devices.
 2. Support of transfer files from AirDrop
 3. Bluetooth 4.0 (BLE required)
 4. Support for 11.2 MHz DoP output (DSD 256 yay!)
 5.Support for 3MHz/6MHz DSD > PCM conversion and DoP Output
  
Note: IPhone 5S or later required for 11.2MHz DSD.
  
  
  
*KaiserTone (v1.2.6)*

  
 1. iOS 8.1.2 support
 2. Further Optimisation of CPU
 3. Other SQ optimisations.
  
  
 All we can say is go to the App store, update and you are good to go.
  
 From Standard-Definition through to High-Definition – just keep it native and enjoy.


----------



## BillsonChang007

dobrescu george said:


> this is a very interesting thing
> 
> are there any differences in SQ or only in power when using eco vs normal vs turbo?
> 
> What DAC is in idsd micro?... i could not fiind where it says.


 
 All the eco, normal and turbo including the IEMatch will not affect the SQ at all. the eco output least amount of power although still plenty for most with the turbo for ultimate hard headphone such as, the HE-6 and K1000. 
  
 as for DAC, I forgot. Let me check but i did mention it on my review [see sig]


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> Recently I reviewed the new Audio-Technica headphone, ATH-W1000Z, and the ifi stacks blew me away!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hello earfonia,
  
 Since you are using the iDSD just as a DAC, can you explain why you have the unit power mode set for normal instead of eco?  Have you noticed any improvemnet in sound between these two modes?


----------



## BillsonChang007

triodemode said:


> Hello earfonia,
> 
> Since you are using the iDSD just as a DAC, can you explain why you have the unit power mode set for normal instead of eco?  Have you noticed any improvemnet in sound between these two modes?


 
 There's no different in sound for eco, normal and turbo mode. the only different is output power only.


----------



## Dobrescu George

@BillsonChang007 I had finished reading your review. it was amazing, it makes everything a little easier. you did not write what dac it has xactly.. i was more curious of if the DAC is better than what DAC is going to be in any portable that is planned right now, because i am a few steps away from buying a ifi idsd micro, because i have read a lot of great things about it.


----------



## BillsonChang007

dobrescu george said:


> @BillsonChang007 I had finished reading your review. it was amazing, it makes everything a little easier. you did not write what dac it has xactly.. i was more curious of if the DAC is better than what DAC is going to be in any portable that is planned right now, because i am a few steps away from buying a ifi idsd micro, because i have read a lot of great things about it.


 
 IMO, I find the iDSD to be better than many DAC in its price range not to mention, for portable use


----------



## Dobrescu George

billsonchang007 said:


> IMO, I find the iDSD to be better than many DAC in its price range not to mention, for portable use


 
 i was testing it only against Hugo at first... because i was ready to buy hugo!


----------



## earfonia

triodemode said:


> Hello earfonia,
> 
> Since you are using the iDSD just as a DAC, can you explain why you have the unit power mode set for normal instead of eco?  Have you noticed any improvemnet in sound between these two modes?




For the build-in headphone amplifier in micro iDSD, Normal power mode sounds better than Eco mode. YMMV. I occasionally switch to the headphone output of the micro iDSD for comparison, therefore I set the power mode to Normal.


----------



## earfonia

dobrescu george said:


> @BillsonChang007
> I had finished reading your review. it was amazing, it makes everything a little easier. you did not write what dac it has xactly.. i was more curious of if the DAC is better than what DAC is going to be in any portable that is planned right now, because i am a few steps away from buying a ifi idsd micro, because i have read a lot of great things about it.




It will be hard to find any better DAC than micro iDSD under $1k.
You might be interested with the following comparison:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/749555/sneak-peek-of-audio-technica-at-ha5050h-pre-production-unit#post_11195247


----------



## ClieOS

dobrescu george said:


> @BillsonChang007 I had finished reading your review. it was amazing, it makes everything a little easier. you did not write what dac it has xactly.. i was more curious of if the DAC is better than what DAC is going to be in any portable that is planned right now, because i am a few steps away from buying a ifi idsd micro, because i have read a lot of great things about it.


 
  
 The DSD1793 in iDSD micro might not be the youngest on the block, but it is how iFi has implemented it (or more correctly 'them', since there are two in the micro) that makes the micro such an outstanding device.


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> For the build-in headphone amplifier in micro iDSD, Normal power mode sounds better than Eco mode. YMMV. I occasionally switch to the headphone output of the micro iDSD for comparison, therefore I set the power mode to Normal.


 

 Thanks for this... I agree that when using the iDSD's built in heaphone amp, normal mode slightly increases the dynamic contrast on many headphones. I was mainly wondering if you hear any difference through the RCA jacks between eco and normal power modes (I personally do not notice any change).


----------



## jdlivestrong

After just over a week of owning the *iFi Micro iDSD* and *iUSB Power* combo (I’m calling that combo *iDSD Stack *






) I knew it was special and that it was in my system to stay for a very long time.  I decided to pack up my iDSD, iUSB Power, and Gemini and send it to Mike over at Audiophile Vibration Control (AVC) so he could design and build a rack that was more stable and offered better isolation for the iDSD Stack.  The reason for this is that it plays double duty for me – I use it for headphones as well as in my main 2 channel rig.  After a couple of weeks of prototyping, he came up with something that far exceeded my expectations.
  
 I'm excited to share that iFi is back in the house - and this time around they're planted much more firmly into my 2 channel rig   I am absolutely over the moon thrilled with what Mike came up with – I have to say that I'm blown away!
  
 Forgive the slight mess, I still have some work to do in my room, but I wanted to provide a quick update because I'm so excited 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*iDSD Stack, meet AVC's IRACK...*





  
  
 And just in case you have more to stack I think he'll have an option for that...

  
 I recently switched over to a MacBook Air pulling high-res DSD and PCM files off a 4TB NAS via Ethernet.  Before I was running a 2009 Mac Mini with the 4TB hard drive attached directly – I’m going to try the MacBook Air out for a little more versatility when I want to use the computer for something else.  I still can’t believe just how good the little $500 *iFi Micro iDSD* along with the *iFi Micro iUSB Power* sounds.  And for a little perspective, my 2 channel rig consists of some pretty serious “audiophile” gear costing more than I care to admit – I can wholeheartedly say without any reservations that the iDSD Stack is a ridiculous value.  Normally you would see a qualification to that statement like “the iDSD Stack is exceptional for the money” – but I would be so bold as to say that the *iDSD Stack* is exceptional.  Period 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  At any price.


----------



## Franatic

Hey JD
 I am happy to see someone having a similar experience with the idsd/iusb power combo. I use mine in a 2 channel home setup and the performance is amazing. I have heard others minimalize the iusb's contribution. I feel it helps move it from very good to great. I use the rca line out in direct mode.
 I have just upgraded the power supply in my audio pc of my 2 pc streamer to a Corsair AX860i. The noise floor has dropped even lower and now even micro details are revealed. I have much hd pcm and dsd material. The better the environment I put the idsd in, the more it reveals it superb capability.


----------



## tf1216

jdlivestrong,
  
 Sweet setup!!  Are you going to try the iTube?  You are almost all the way to iFi heaven


----------



## jdlivestrong

Franatic - sweet!  Thanks!  Sounds like you've got a great 2 channel setup as well.  I, too, think the iUSB Power is a great upgrade to the iDSD in my 2 channel system.
  
 tf1216 – cool to see another local Minnesotan!  And if your birthday is 12/16 like your user name might suggest, that is creepy!  My system is undergoing a little bit of change at the moment, I used to have the Micro iPhono but I’m working on a new turntable so I sold it with my old table – the only reason I sold it was that he paid me full retail for it because he wanted it.  So I figured I could just buy another one when I get my new table!  I don’t plan to get the iTube because I run a hybrid tube / solid state integrated amp – so I feel I have just the right amount of tube goodness in my system at the moment (though it would look cool to fill up the AVC IRACK with all 4 levels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## earfonia

triodemode said:


> Thanks for this... I agree that when using the iDSD's built in heaphone amp, normal mode slightly increases the dynamic contrast on many headphones. I was mainly wondering if you hear any difference through the RCA jacks between eco and normal power modes (I personally do not notice any change).


 
  
 I don't remember I hear any difference on the RCA output on different power modes, but I haven't been really observing the line out quality on different power mode, only the headphone output. Normally I always set the power mode on normal mode, since the headphone output sounds better that way. I will observe more next time.
  
  


jdlivestrong said:


> *iDSD Stack, meet AVC's IRACK...*


 
  
 Wow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Awesome! Very cool and nice looking iRack!!!


----------



## Dobrescu George

can anyone please explain to me what the other ifi products do and are supposed to do? i might be interested in buying more than just idsd micro, if anything can add up to even a better sound, but i want to understand what they are, what they do, and how they work,.


----------



## Franatic

As a DAC I hear a difference in direct vs preamp mode. In the Direct mode you get line out and it does not use the amplifier section. You get the purest possible output.  The 3D and Xbass only work in Preamp. At first I fell in love with these effects and used the idsd preamp mode mostly. With more discerning listening I began to favor the SQ in Direct mode. The preamp had a slightly thinner sound, a touch hollow sounding, even with 3D off. It also lost some of the subtle details. IMHO, the direct sound is superior. It is fuller with slightly better details. I do my flavoring in my Woo WA2, which acts as my preamp for my main system and my headphone amp.  AWESOME COMBO!!
  
 I still occasionally use the preamp mode for the 3D effect with classical orchestral music, but mostly I leave it in Direct mode. I don't want to be continually flipping switches. I'm still playing a bit with the minphase vs bit perfect setting. Not sure which one I prefer yet. I'd be interested in others feedback on that.


----------



## senorx12562

dobrescu george said:


> I agree with you and all, but i would not be able to buy a desktop version of idsd, because i need something portable..
> 
> but chord hugo has got them magics in it... but with all seriousness, i have a real problem deciding, i cannot listen to ifi thingy, because the only shop from which i can buy is in hugary, around 800km distance from me... it would have been simpler if i could had listened to it before trying to decide...


 
 I think the SQ per $ calculation is decidedly in favor of the iDSD. Money not an object? Reasonable people differ.


----------



## Dobrescu George

senorx12562 said:


> I think the SQ per $ calculation is decidedly in favor of the iDSD. Money not an object? Reasonable people differ.


 
 no, money is not important. still i think that if i can buy soething cheaper that sounds just as good, i might as well might!


----------



## senorx12562

dobrescu george said:


> I was not searching for the best DAC under a certain price... i was searching for the best portable DAC ever made
> 
> This is why i feel like anything but hugo is going to make me feel like i bought the right one..
> 
> ...


 
 My iDSD brought about a huge difference in sound quality from my x5 using it as a transport only.


----------



## Dithyrambes

I'm sure the Iusbpower and the Gemini Cable probably makes an impact no the sound. My question though is, is it worth almost 400 dollars? I would like to ask how discernible the difference is when it is compared to a battery powered Micro Idsd with the included usb cable. I primarily use my CIEMS, so the impact may be not as big as having full sized cans. I've read earlier in forums about the Shell plus and the Shell Nitro, but since CIEMs are easy to drive, I would assume iDSD would provide enough clean power? I am asking because I am debating whether to purchase the pair. Thank you.


----------



## Franatic

dithyrambes said:


> I'm sure the Iusbpower and the Gemini Cable probably makes an impact no the sound. My question though is, is it worth almost 400 dollars? I would like to ask how discernible the difference is when it is compared to a battery powered Micro Idsd with the included usb cable. I primarily use my CIEMS, so the impact may be not as big as having full sized cans. I've read earlier in forums about the Shell plus and the Shell Nitro, but since CIEMs are easy to drive, I would assume iDSD would provide enough clean power? I am asking because I am debating whether to purchase the pair. Thank you.


 

 As I am using the idsd/ iusb/ gemini cable +PPA usb cable combo in a $15,000 home system, the extra expense ($650) is justified for me. I am trying to extract evry bit of its superb capability as a dac. I also already had the iusb power/ gemini for my nano idsd setup.
  
 In a portable headphone setup I would think that kind of expense would be hard to justify. Also I doubt if you would get as much benefit from the combo as in a home setup. Someone who is using it in the way you intend can surely give you more definitive feedback though.


----------



## EVOLVIST

dithyrambes said:


> I'm sure the Iusbpower and the Gemini Cable probably makes an impact no the sound. My question though is, is it worth almost 400 dollars? I would like to ask how discernible the difference is when it is compared to a battery powered Micro Idsd with the included usb cable. I primarily use my CIEMS, so the impact may be not as big as having full sized cans. I've read earlier in forums about the Shell plus and the Shell Nitro, but since CIEMs are easy to drive, I would assume iDSD would provide enough clean power? I am asking because I am debating whether to purchase the pair. Thank you.


 
  
 I would at least purchase the Gemini cable to insure that you're getting a clean signal for audio, really cutting out any noise from the USB port. I have both the iUSB Power and the Gemini. I bought the iUSB Power first, and yes, it made a difference, but not near as much as the Gemini did, either by itself or with the pair. It's pretty difficult to quantify something like, though. If you have a really noisy system I would say both are a must. If you're wanting that extra layering, and you have a fairly clean system, then the Gemini by itself.
  
 The only reason I'm keeping the iUSB Power is because I'm hoping it will come in handy with the iDSD Pro desktop model when it comes out. I have pretty clean power, but the iDSD Pro will not be battery based, so just in case (although I might not need it) I'll keep it. It doesn't hurt. But the real miracle is in the Gemini.
  
 Now ask yourself what degree of cleanliness you want and if your rig needs considerable de-noising.


----------



## maricius

I'm considering a Schiit Wyrd which has a data reclocker and as well as a filtered power supply. Anyone with experience with this at $99 with the iDSD? http://www.audiostream.com/content/collection-usb-audio-enhancement-products


----------



## EVOLVIST

maricius said:


> I'm considering a Schiit Wyrd which has a data reclocker and as well as a filtered power supply. Anyone with experience with this at $99 with the iDSD? http://www.audiostream.com/content/collection-usb-audio-enhancement-products




I have! I didn't like what seemed to be an extra bass response with the Wyrd, coming out of the iDSD. I had read about that extra bass, and I thought it might be just people's cans, but having the Wyrd and the iUSB Power, side by side, to audition, I felt that I was still mainlining the straight music with iUSB Power, while with the Wyrd I was getting some type of extra processing that didn't seem natural.

Take what I say with a grain if salt, though. On the other hand, know that I auditioned both with my HD800s, so if I'm hearing too much bass in cans that are known for "lack of bass," then we're probably bordering on a Beats by Dre sound signature. People dig that, though.

Reclocking? I know what that means, but I still can't figure out the benefit in a circuit that simple.


----------



## Sound Eq

evolvist said:


> It all depends on your computer. in JRiver, using ASIO, the buffer size is recommended at 500 milliseconds. In the iFi driver settings, this greatly depends. Optimally, for the best sound and clocking, your USB Streaming Mode will be set to: Minimum Latency. The only way to tell if your machine can handle it, is to listen. If you hear no clicks, pops, skips in the songs, then you're probably good at Minimum Latency. But also consider the ASIO buffer size, which recommended at 8192 samples.
> 
> You will only know by trying. Start off with 2048 samples and "Safe" USB Streaming Mode. If you could none of the aforementioned problems, then kick it up a notch to 4096 samples and "Reliable" in the USB Streaming Mode. While you're doing this, you can always check your CPU usage, by going to your task manager and check. You can even go to the resource monitor and double check. In other words, if you're trying to get to Minimum Latency and 8192 samples, you can see how much CPU and memory your machine is using to process all of this data.
> 
> ...


 

 i bought this hp stream 7 ( 7 inch windows 8.1  tablet ) which has 1 Gb ram, so i set the ifi driver to usb streaming : reliable and audio buffer size: 4028
  
 and in jriver streaming to 500 milliseconds
  
 does that sound ok


----------



## kapanak

evolvist said:


> I have! I didn't like what seemed to be an extra bass response with the Wyrd, coming out of the iDSD. I had read about that extra bass, and I thought it might be just people's cans, but having the Wyrd and the iUSB Power, side by side, to audition, I felt that I was still mainlining the straight music with iUSB Power, while with the Wyrd I was getting some type of extra processing that didn't seem natural.
> 
> Take what I say with a grain if salt, though. On the other hand, know that I auditioned both with my HD800s, so if I'm hearing too much bass in cans that are known for "lack of bass," then we're probably bordering on a Beats by Dre sound signature. People dig that, though.
> 
> Reclocking? I know what that means, but I still can't figure out the benefit in a circuit that simple.


 

 HD800 is known for lack of bass? Um ... No. They don't have bloating bass like the Fostex TH series, but they definitely do not lack bass.
  
 AKG 7XX series of headphones lack bass, HD598 lacks bass, but the HD800 does not lack bass lol


----------



## EVOLVIST

kapanak said:


> HD800 is known for lack of bass? Um ... No. They don't have bloating bass like the Fostex TH series, but they definitely do not lack bass.
> 
> AKG 7XX series of headphones lack bass, HD598 lacks bass, but the HD800 does not lack bass lol




That's why "lack of bass" was in quotes, yo. 

Many people - especially these days where an overt bass response seems to be the norm - have called out the HD800s as having no bass, when in fact, the cans are designed to give an accurate bass profile commensurate to the rest of the frequency spectrum. The HD800s do very well in this regard, which is why I cherish them. It's not their fault that people can't adjust their ears to accurate sound.

Having said that, in relation to the Wyrd, if I'm getting an unnatural bass response on what I consider to be natural cans, then something is wrong, which is why I returned the Wyrd and opted for the iUSB Power, instead.

Simple. I can only imagine how bassy the Wyrd might sound on bloomy cans. Yuck!


----------



## Sound Eq

i have a question, when i direct mode ( connected to an external amp ) does the turbo, normal and eco mode work or not, as i don't hear any volumes differences between them anymore when in direct mode


----------



## Dobrescu George

so ifi ipower has some effect on the sound?
 this is something i should be considering..
  
 does the usb cable from ifi have any effect on SQ?
  
 also, i feel that i need to ask, as i failed to fiind this, what is the ouput impedance?.


----------



## john57

sound eq said:


> i have a question, when i direct mode ( connected to an external amp ) does the turbo, normal and eco mode work or not, as i don't hear any volumes differences between them anymore when in direct mode


 
 That is right, direct mode levels should not change with different power levels. That what direct mode does. The power levels are mostly for the headphone output not for the RCA outputs.


----------



## BillsonChang007

dobrescu george said:


> so ifi ipower has some effect on the sound?
> this is something i should be considering..
> 
> does the usb cable from ifi have any effect on SQ?
> ...




Yes and yes. 

Cant remember the exact output impedance but you shouldnt be woried about it. Its way below 1 ohm.


----------



## cattlethief

beemarman said:


> I’m no audiophile and can sometimes find it hard to break down how some equipment sound, but I do know when something sounds ok, really good or really bad.
> 
> My list of equipment are as follows
> 
> ...


 
 Ive been using the nano idsd/nano ican with the Sony A16 which is superb,thinking of getting the micro to team up with my AK 100II and sony A16,how do compare the micro/AK100ii to your AK240?


----------



## natra084

If I am using coaxial in  is it that possible to get RCA out


----------



## JuleZ3C

What would be the point of a DAC if it wasn't?
  
 People really need to read the f$*&@§g(ly comprehensive) manual ! (it's here !)


----------



## Sound Eq

guys i have a question sorry for asking too much
  
 my setup is
  
 hp stream 7--- idsd--- rca from ifi to rsa alo mk3---- balanced audeze
  
 now on my mk3 the light blinks from blue to purple and according to the alo mk3 thread it means that something is not correct in the path
  
 so my question is , to support sending signal from idsd to alo mk3 and output balanced sound is there a certain setting that i must put the on ifi dsd


----------



## BillsonChang007

julez3c said:


> What would be the point of a DAC if it wasn't?
> 
> People really need to read manual ! (it's here !)


 





+1


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> guys i have a question sorry for asking too much
> 
> my setup is
> 
> ...




Use the "direct" setting.


----------



## logscool

How does this compare to the Centrance Hifi-M8 both in terms of their capabilities as a DAC only and also as a headphone amp particularly for planars like the Alpha Prime? I would love to hear from anyone who has heard both of them or has any thoughts. Especially if you have heard them paired with the Alpha Prime.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Here is my review of iFi Micro iDSD.


----------



## technobear

dan.gheorghe said:


> Here is my review of iFi Micro iDSD.
> 
> "One of the strong things about this unit is that it sounds quite natural for a Delta Sigma."




Actually the DAC is a hybrid. The top 6 bits are pure multi-bit.

The treble is better from the RCA outs. If you connect it to a micro iCAN for example, you will hear a bit more going on up top. The headphone amp in the micro iDSD is a class A/B type in order to keep the heat and power consumption low. It's good but it doesn't match a good class A design like the micro iCAN.


----------



## maricius

dan.gheorghe said:


> Here is my review of iFi Micro iDSD.


 

 I personally find the bass boost to add little or no mid-bass at all and to add sub-bass. I listen to a lot of rock and hip hop.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

technobear said:


> Actually the DAC is a hybrid. The top 6 bits are pure multi-bit.
> 
> The treble is better from the RCA outs. If you connect it to a micro iCAN for example, you will hear a bit more going on up top. The headphone amp in the micro iDSD is a class A/B type in order to keep the heat and power consumption low. It's good but it doesn't match a good class A design like the micro iCAN.


 
 Thank you, techno. I didn't find that info about the DAC chip anywhere on their website. Where did you read this? 
  
 I am sure iCAN is better, but I liked the one in iDSD as well. 
  


maricius said:


> I personally find the bass boost to add little or no mid-bass at all and to add sub-bass. I listen to a lot of rock and hip hop.


 
  
 I was comparing the xbass boost to the one in fiio E12A which I liked more. (added this in the review)
  
  
 I think this unit is remarkably awesome for the price.


----------



## technobear

dan.gheorghe said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the DAC is a hybrid. The top 6 bits are pure multi-bit.
> ...




http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-cutting-edge-portable-hi-res-on-ios-update-page-134/60#post_10404689


----------



## dan.gheorghe

technobear said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-cutting-edge-portable-hi-res-on-ios-update-page-134/60#post_10404689


 
 Thank you very much. Added the info in the review. This seems like a very important feature in my opinion. They should also write that on their website.


----------



## technobear

dan.gheorghe said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-cutting-edge-portable-hi-res-on-ios-update-page-134/60#post_10404689
> ...




On page 1 of that thread, there is an index of important posts.


----------



## essentiale

Hi! i've been combing these threads to find what amps some of you guys pair the Micro iDSD with. Could some of you please kindly share your iFi Micro iDSD set ups with full desktop amps / tube amps please? thank you!


----------



## BillsonChang007

technobear said:


> On page 1 of that thread, there is an index of important posts.


 
  
 I think people really need to start going through those list before asking some of the questions. Most of the questions are answered in the exhausting long list! 


essentiale said:


> Hi! i've been combing these threads to find what amps some of you guys pair the Micro iDSD with. Could some of you please kindly share your iFi Micro iDSD set ups with full desktop amps / tube amps please? thank you!


 
 Heya!

 Glad you asked. I personally uses Garage1217 Project Sunrise III with Amperex 6DJ8 with the Micro iDSD and its an great combo for whatever you listens to!


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Short question to iFi Audio:
  
 Is the 3D sound from the nano iCAN (I've owned last year) the same as with the micro iDSD (I own currently)? I can't compare both sadly.
  
 I have the micro iCAN too, which has two levels of 3D sound, but on nano iCAN and micro iDSD we can only switch on or off - so my question "sound" it simlar if only the amp part is used?


----------



## EVOLVIST

essentiale said:


> Hi! i've been combing these threads to find what amps some of you guys pair the Micro iDSD with. Could some of you please kindly share your iFi Micro iDSD set ups with full desktop amps / tube amps please? thank you!




I'm using the iDSD micro and running it out into a SPL Auditor headphone amp, into my HD800s. I've never heard a HP amp with this much width and depth: pure transparency: pro audio gear. And it helps, greatly, that the iDSD micro is the near perfect DAC to move my whole system along.


----------



## Triodemode

A bit perfect mode question to the folks here.  I understand this mode only applies a filter with no oversampling and when playing 16/44.1khz red book music there will be a higher noise floor however, I am clearly hearing digital noise during quiet passages or when the music is paused (of course at 88.2khz or above the noise is gone). 
  
 Is it possible my unit's filter may be out of spec and allowing this noise to be louder?  Just trying to gauge whether the noise from my iDSD micro is at a higher level than what others are experiencing.  If this noise is heard by other users during quiet musical passages as well, then I understand this is just a tradeoff for what many consider (myself included) to be a more analog sound.


----------



## john57

triodemode said:


> A bit perfect mode question to the folks here.  I understand this mode only applies a filter with no oversampling and when playing 16/44.1khz red book music there will be a higher noise floor however, I am clearly hearing digital noise during quiet passages or when the music is paused (of course at 88.2khz or above the noise is gone).
> 
> Is it possible my unit's filter may be out of spec and allowing this noise to be louder?  Just trying to gauge whether the noise from my iDSD micro is at a higher level than what others are experiencing.  If this noise is heard by other users during quiet musical passages as well, then I understand this is just a tradeoff for what many consider (myself included) to be a more analog sound.


 
 Some people will hear the very high frequency noise of the bit perfect filter setting at low sampling rates. Yes that is a trade off. That is normal as far I can tell.


----------



## Franatic

essentiale said:


> Hi! i've been combing these threads to find what amps some of you guys pair the Micro iDSD with. Could some of you please kindly share your iFi Micro iDSD set ups with full desktop amps / tube amps please? thank you!


 

 I am running the setup you are asking about. I use the idsd micro purely as a dac in direct mode. The dac is the real gem of the idsd. The amplifier section is good, but not the level of the superb dac section.
  
 The idsd rca output feeds my Woo WA2 tube amp which doubles as a headphone amp for my Beyerdynamic T1s or as a preamp for my main system. My main system amp is an Exposure 2010S2. I can highly recommend this combo. My speakers are Monitor Audio GX-100s and they are awesome.
  
 A tube preamp is sweet with the idsd micro in a full system. I hear that it pairs very well with the itube in this manner.
  
 I finally settled into the digital filter set on Bitperfect/Extreme (PCM/DSD). Now I never have to touch the idsd micro's switches at all.
  
 This little device Rocks!


----------



## fleemur12

About a week back, I posted about an iTube unit I received that had some issues with alignment of the switches, volume knob and MicroSwitches.  I returned it to musicdirect.com and they promptly sent me a new unit.  The second unit is in much better shape than the first one I received, but the MicroSwitches on the underside are misaligned (see pic). 
  
 I have the iDSD, iCan and iUSBPower and these units arrived in perfect shape, plus I love the sound I get out of the iFi stack.  I haven't tried plugging in this unit to my stack yet, but if it works, should I just keep it?  It is a relatively minor issue, and it may not even affect the functioning of the unit, but I kind of expect to get a mint-condition item when I purchase something that is brand-new.  Am I being unreasonable to expect the iTube to also be in totally mint-perfect condition, or is misalignment a common issue with this particular unit? 
  
 Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. 
  

  
  
 UPDATED PIC


----------



## john57

The alignment looks straight at least. The window is kind of small to show everything. For me having a good working unit is important. As long the switches are working good I may not be concern on that. You could ask IFI about that. Here is another picture I find on goggle images. The top is a bit chopped off.


----------



## fleemur12

See, now that unit has an aligned MicroSwitch.  I resized my image so hopefully you can see it better - the numbers on the bottom are cut off and there is a gap on the top. 
  
 But yes, john57, the rest of the unit is aligned.  Thanks for the feedback & the pic! 
  
 After hooking it up to the rest of my system, I've concluded that - it sounds awesome.  The unit seems to be working fine, and the MicroSwitches are accessible.


----------



## knorris908

essentiale said:


> Hi! i've been combing these threads to find what amps some of you guys pair the Micro iDSD with. Could some of you please kindly share your iFi Micro iDSD set ups with full desktop amps / tube amps please? thank you!


 

 Hi I'm running my iDSD Micro through a Schiit Audio ASGARD 2 as a DAC in direct mode.  It's working wonderfully for all my headphones including HD-650, HA-SZ2000, Etc...


----------



## essentiale

franatic said:


> I am running the setup you are asking about. I use the idsd micro purely as a dac in direct mode. The dac is the real gem of the idsd. The amplifier section is good, but not the level of the superb dac section.
> 
> The idsd rca output feeds my Woo WA2 tube amp which doubles as a headphone amp for my Beyerdynamic T1s or as a preamp for my main system. My main system amp is an Exposure 2010S2. I can highly recommend this combo. My speakers are Monitor Audio GX-100s and they are awesome.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! The Woo WA2 is in my sights, at the moment i'm strongly considering pairing the iDSD with either a Woo WA2 / WA22 / WA6SE for tube amps...


----------



## Triodemode

essentiale said:


> Hi! i've been combing these threads to find what amps some of you guys pair the Micro iDSD with. Could some of you please kindly share your iFi Micro iDSD set ups with full desktop amps / tube amps please? thank you!


 

 I'm running my iDSD micro RCA line out set to direct mode into a Marantz PM6005 integrated amp driving Spendor LS3/5a speakers.  Even though the Marantz has a dedicated headphone amp built in, I was surprised that it sounded better than the one in the iDSD using my Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm or Sennheiser HD650's.
  
 The iDSD micro is an absolutely fantastic DAC that is slightly held back sonically when listening through it's built in headphone amp.


----------



## tf1216

fleemur12 said:


> About a week back, I posted about an iTube unit I received that had some issues with alignment of the switches, volume knob and MicroSwitches.  I returned it to musicdirect.com and they promptly sent me a new unit.  The second unit is in much better shape than the first one I received, but the MicroSwitches on the underside are misaligned (see pic).
> 
> I have the iDSD, iCan and iUSBPower and these units arrived in perfect shape, plus I love the sound I get out of the iFi stack.  I haven't tried plugging in this unit to my stack yet, but if it works, should I just keep it?  It is a relatively minor issue, and it may not even affect the functioning of the unit, but I kind of expect to get a mint-condition item when I purchase something that is brand-new.  Am I being unreasonable to expect the iTube to also be in totally mint-perfect condition, or is misalignment a common issue with this particular unit?
> 
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


 
  
 I am not seeing the misalignment of the switches.  Would you mind sketching on your picture to show us (or at least me) what you are describing?


----------



## Dobrescu George

the numbers are not all visible. that is the problem... it is minor, at first i haven't noticed it either...
  
@fleemur12 it is okay, it looks allright, if it works this is what matters.


----------



## fleemur12

dobrescu george said:


> the numbers are not all visible. that is the problem... it is minor, at first i haven't noticed it either...
> @fleemur12 it is okay, it looks allright, if it works this is what matters.
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 Here's a extreme close-up with directed LED lighting.  It exaggerates the gap and you can see the red PCB inside.  I'm not trying to be a jerk and present it in the worst possible light and angle, it's just that otherwise it isn't visible on an uploaded pic due to resolution loss and poor lighting. 
  
 Anyway, it works well which is what really counts, but I am a bit of a perfectionist with my "toys" and collectables.  ifi PMed me and I sent them a few pics.  They're a good company and I love my system.  Policies differ between companies, but I will concede it is a relatively minor fit-and-finish issue on a relatively inexpensive unit.  However, I have spent over $1600 on their merchandise.


----------



## iFi audio

fleemur12 said:


> Here's a extreme close-up with directed LED lighting.  It exaggerates the gap and you can see the red PCB inside.  I'm not trying to be a jerk and present it in the worst possible light and angle, it's just that otherwise it isn't visible on an uploaded pic due to resolution loss and poor lighting.
> 
> Anyway, it works well which is what really counts, but I am a bit of a perfectionist with my "toys" and collectables.  ifi PMed me and I sent them a few pics.  They're a good company and I love my system.  Policies differ between companies, but I will concede it is a relatively minor fit-and-finish issue on a relatively inexpensive unit.  However, I have spent over $1600 on their merchandise.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Fleemur has kindly sent us this information - but we wanted to share with you.
  
 We had to check with the techinal people as this not a question we have come across.
  
The gap
 - Just to confirm, the gap between the metal and the switch is one that allows the protruding toggles to pass.
  
 - The cutout is nearly as big as the switch. So if you shine a light in there will always be a gap.
  
 - The placement of the switch on the PCB may be out by as much as 0.5mm one way.
  
 - The maching of the cutout in the case may be out by as much as 0.5mm
  
 As a result it is possible in rare cases that both tolerances accumulate, read the total placement is shifted by as much as 1mm, relaive to any given edge we take as reference.
  
 Again, such tolerances are normal.
  
  
The alignment
 If looking straight on, the alignment of the whole bank of keys with the switch should be straight on but we cannot be 100% sure from the photos it is aligned or not quite aligned. This is purely cosmetic and there will be variances in production.
  
 Worst case, you can take/send the iTube to your retailer and ask them to check for you.
  
 But from your earlier post, your shot seems the one that is the most straight on. It does not look misaligned - but we do not wish to assume this.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## fleemur12

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Fleemur has kindly sent us this information - but we wanted to share with you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, that makes sense.  It's about a 1mm gap on one side of the switch.  So that's due to the switch's placement on the PCB approx 0.5mm towards the front of the unit and the cutout in the case bottom is approx 0.5mm towards the back of the unit = 1 mm gap on one side of the switch.  It's tolerance accumulation (or tolerance stack) from the need to allow the keys to pass into the very tight aluminum case.  I've been looking at companies like Takachi Electronics Enclosure Co., LTD, which sell multi-panel aluminum enclosures.  They allow for assembly of cases around the unit.  There are some issues however, such as cost, but there are some interesting options available. 
  
  
  
  
  
 Anyhow, I digress. 
  
 Since it's only cosmetic, I can live with those tolerances, especially on an audio component that cost a mere $300 and yet makes my music so much more enjoyable. 
  
 I appreciate the quick response, and thanks for giving me a straightforward response.


----------



## ultraman

ultraman said:


> Hmmm....maybe I got a faulty unit or I didn't pay attention when the led change color.
> 
> Thank you for your help,


 
  
  


tf1216 said:


> Keep us posted and keep enjoying your iDSD


 
  
  


tf1216 said:


> Hi ultraman,
> 
> Check the last part of the User Manual  You will see the part about the "LEDs".  It highlights that when the battery is low by illuminating RED. This warning comes up when the battery is on its last 10%.


 
  
 Here whats happens before it runs out of juice. Been listen to music now in almost 1h ( overall more than 10hours on this charge) and solid green light during the hole hour. Here is what happens next from green light--> red/green flashing--> shutdown, this takes less than 5 minutes.
 Is this normal and what dose 10% remaining means in music playback time (using ipod touch 5 CCK, Sennhiser ie8 and eco mode)?


----------



## tf1216

ultraman said:


> Here whats happens before it runs out of juice. Been listen to music now in almost 1h ( overall more than 10hours on this charge) and solid green light during the hole hour. Here is what happens next from green light--> red/green flashing--> shutdown, this takes less than 5 minutes.
> Is this normal and what dose 10% remaining means in music playback time (using ipod touch 5 CCK, Sennhiser ie8 and eco mode)?


 
  
 Hey ultraman,
  
 Try recharging your unit to 100%.  You will know it's fully-charged when the LED is off.  After that, use the device until it is completely out of battery power then recharge it back to 100%.  It's it a bit of a process but it should get the iDSD back into the right cycle.  
  
 I've heard that this process helps with devices powered by batteries.  Please don't ask me to explain, in engineering speak, how this helps the battery's functionality.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I am going to Google it though.


----------



## ultraman

Thanks, I got the same answer now from ifi support though they want me to charge it for 24 hours. We'll see if that helps.
If anyone is wondering, I use Orico dcp-5u charger.


----------



## MattTCG

Subbed and a few questions:
  
 *is there a performance difference between battery and usb powered modes?
  
 *what are the best settings for Jriver when playing dsd files? 
  
 *what is the typical play time for a fully charged battery when using the micro portably on econ mode/normal? 
  
 I am so impressed with this device. It took several days of play time before it sounded "right" to me. It's now warm, musical and resolving with all my hp's. I love the effect of xbass...maybe the best implemented bass boost that I've come across. I'm trying hard to find flaws with the mighty micro.


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> Subbed and a few questions:
> 
> *is there a performance difference between battery and usb powered modes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 These are our comments but others may chime in with their experience.
  
 1. *is there a performance difference between battery and usb powered modes?
 - battery nicer than USB (but depends upon how noisy your coimputer is as this varies from single core Dell Duo (quiet) to HP Dual Core 2.2Ghz (noisy as it is loaded with goodies). These are two that we use.
 - but the micro is more impervious because of onboard iPurifier (filter)
  
  
 2. *what are the best settings for Jriver when playing dsd files? 
 - JRMC 19 and 20, leave it alone. Choose WASAPI or ASIO (Asio doesnt have clicks when switching between PCM/DSD)
  
  
 3. *what is the typical play time for a fully charged battery when using the micro portably on econ mode/normal? 
 Using IEMs in this mode, 12-14 hours from fully-charged battery.
  
  
 Cheers.


----------



## senorx12562

matttcg said:


> Subbed and a few questions:
> 
> *is there a performance difference between battery and usb powered modes?
> 
> ...


 
 In eco mode I've run it for 12 hours straight on a full charge.


----------



## DougD

matttcg said:


> Subbed and a few questions:
> 
> *is there a performance difference between battery and usb powered modes?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amen to being impressed. I got an iFi Micro iDSD about three weeks ago, it's been on essentially 24x7 ever since. (And a HiFiMan HE-400i at the same time, then a Senn HD-650 yesterday. I'm having fun.)
  
 On my set-up, I had some stuttering at JRiver's std 100 millisecs of buffering, so I bumped that to 500, which has cured that problem.
  
 I do not have many DSD/dsf files. But the demos available from the Oppo website are spectacular sounding.
  
 Highest SQ I've ever had in my house ever, for sure. I haven't tried it as a portable device yet. I'm looking forward to getting more parts of the iFi stack.


----------



## iFi audio

dougd said:


> I do not have many DSD/dsf files. But the demos available from the Oppo website are spectacular sounding.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Some Native DSD free downloads if you search through the New Blog archives.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/category/audio_blog/
  
 David Elias
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/public-release-2-x-david-elias-dsd-tracks/
  
 and for iCLUB members only - the whole album
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/iclub-the-1st-of-many-exclusives-the-david-elias-ifi-dsd-album/
  
 and
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/marvellous-pianist-josei-sans-quad-dsd256-recording-major-download-alert/
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler ALERT!



and SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!
 - more DSD music coming soon here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/753978/ifi-audio-retro-stereo-50-discussion-thread
  


  
 There are also of course others on the internet.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## MattTCG

Why is there considerably less volume when using battery power with the micro?


----------



## Dithyrambes

matttcg said:


> Why is there considerably less volume when using battery power with the micro?


 
 That was my thought at first, but I think the sound is more transparent than using dirty power from the USB, and the bass def reaches and hits deeper.


----------



## kawaivpc1

Sony PHA-3 vs iDSD Micro?? Which one sounds better???


----------



## maricius

matttcg said:


> Why is there considerably less volume when using battery power with the micro?


 
  


dithyrambes said:


> That was my thought at first, but I think the sound is more transparent than using dirty power from the USB, and the bass def reaches and hits deeper.


 

 And here I am assuming I was pumping it louder not because of the volume difference but out of compensation for a noisy outdoor background


----------



## kawaivpc1

If this is a "micro" version of iDSD, are you guys working on a full-sized desktop iDSD DAC?


----------



## ClieOS

kawaivpc1 said:


> If this is a "micro" version of iDSD, are you guys working on a full-sized desktop iDSD DAC?


 
  
 You missed this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-mini-desktop-line-discussion-thread


----------



## kawaivpc1

clieos said:


> You missed this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-mini-desktop-line-discussion-thread




How much is iDSD Pro? 
Any idea on PHA-3 vs iDSD Micro?


----------



## Hubert481

kawaivpc1 said:


> Any idea on PHA-3 vs iDSD Micro?



160 mW vs 4000 mW
http://www.head-fi.org/t/733162/sony-pha-3-balanced-portable-dac-amp/270#post_11097061


----------



## essentiale

maricius said:


> And here I am assuming I was pumping it louder not because of the volume difference but out of compensation for a noisy outdoor background


 
  
 Nope, the levels from using battery is definitely lower than when its connected via USB. Via USB i can playback at Normal mode without issues, but i'll have to switch to Turbo mode when i hook it up to my DAP which in this case is my DAP.


----------



## kawaivpc1

hubert481 said:


> 160 mW vs 4000 mW
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/733162/sony-pha-3-balanced-portable-dac-amp/270#post_11097061




I know iDSD has more power, but there are so many positive reviews on PHA-3's sound quality. Many people have said they won't like to listen anything else than PHA-3. PHA-3 comes with two internal clocks too. 
Can anyone comment on sound quality comparison between PHA-3 and iDSD Micro???

If you're using the same headphone and high res files on desktop setting, which unit sounds better?


----------



## ClieOS

kawaivpc1 said:


> How much is iDSD Pro?
> Any idea on PHA-3 vs iDSD Micro?


 
  
 Around $1500.
  
 I briefly listened to PHA-3 on an audio show last year against iDSD micro. Can't really give you any fine detail but my general impression is that iDSD micro will be my pick between the two as far as SQ goes. PHA-3 is fine by its own, just doesn't carry any wow factor when sitting next to iDSD micro.


----------



## kawaivpc1

clieos said:


> Around $1500.
> 
> I briefly listened to PHA-3 on an audio show last year against iDSD micro. Can't really give you any fine detail but my general impression is that iDSD micro will be my pick between the two as far as SQ goes. PHA-3 is fine by its own, just doesn't carry any wow factor when sitting next to iDSD micro.





Did you check PHA-3's balanced out? Many people have said PHA-3's balanced out is the best ever made. 
I'm not sure how it sounds compared to iDSD. PHA-3 seems to be more portable than iDSD too.


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> Why is there considerably less volume when using battery power with the micro?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 But all tihngs being equal, there is no power output difference between running battery and USB.
  
 Hence, we do not know - as we need to know your full system before we can do any diagnostics.
  
 But check that your source (PC/DAP) has maxed out volume.
   
Check this and if it doesnt work then open an iFi support ticket so our support team can go through step by step.

  
 Cheers.


----------



## maricius

On volume difference between battery power vs USB powered while on USB connection:
  
 Macbook + IDSD on battery power, Macbook + iDSD on USB power, iPhone + iDSD on battery power, DX90 + battery power…
  
 I don't notice any differences in volume while on the same area of the volume pot travel. If there are any, it's minimal. 
  
 Other details that may be of importance:
 iDSD on Normal power mode with High Sensitivity driving a Focal Spirit Pro
 iDSD on full charge


----------



## cheznous

kawaivpc1 said:


> Did you check PHA-3's balanced out? Many people have said PHA-3's balanced out is the best ever made.
> I'm not sure how it sounds compared to iDSD. PHA-3 seems to be more portable than iDSD too.



I listened to the PHA 3 balanced and cannot say it thrilled me. Found it somewhat constrained compared to iDSD.


----------



## Hubert481

Is there any adaptercable to listen iDSD micro via lightning adapter cable to Apple iPAD AND power both during listening?

In other words, is there an option to use a powered usb-hub - connected to iPAD and iDSD which allows listening and charging?

I do not have an IDSD now, so i cannot check it out myself - thank you


----------



## MattTCG

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> But all tihngs being equal, there is no power output difference between running battery and USB.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe when I was testing this the micro was very low on power. I'm not sure but will have to go back and test again. The difference was quite obvious though even with just informal testing. Comfortable levels on usb power were at 10:00 and on batter power at nearly 1:00.
  
 There is quite a bit of tweaking that can be done to the micro, which I like. Could anyone share their favorite settings with the hd650?
  
 Regarding the PHA 3 vs micro. I own the micro and auditioned the pha 3. The sound quality is as good as they say on the Sony and the balanced is very well implemented, but the comparison is not really fair given that the sony is 2x the price of the micro and has NO dac.


----------



## maricius

matttcg said:


> Regarding the PHA 3 vs micro. I own the micro and auditioned the pha 3. The sound quality is as good as they say on the Sony and the balanced is very well implemented, but the comparison is not really fair given that the sony is 2x the price of the micro and has NO dac.


 

 NO DAC meaning no RCA outs? I believe it has a lineout although 3.5mm at the back. Quite a number find the iDSD to be on par or only slightly behind the Chord Hugo as a DAC/amp so I don't think price should be the determining factor if in deciding between the two (iDSD and PHA-3) if one's willing to shell out cash for the PHA-3. I guess what wouldn't be fair or what would be determining factors would be the direct purposes for each e.g. use with balanced headphones, but one could compare the single ended of the iDSD versus the balanced output of the PHA-3.


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> Maybe when I was testing this the micro was very low on power. I'm not sure but will have to go back and test again. The difference was quite obvious though even with just informal testing. Comfortable levels on usb power were at 10:00 and on batter power at nearly 1:00.
> 
> There is quite a bit of tweaking that can be done to the micro, which I like. Could anyone share their favorite settings with the hd650?
> 
> Regarding the PHA 3 vs micro. I own the micro and auditioned the pha 3. The sound quality is as good as they say on the Sony and the balanced is very well implemented, but the comparison is not really fair given that the sony is 2x the price of the micro and has NO dac.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Understood.
  
 It is highjly recommended that always use from battery on fully-charged at 100%.
  
 We know a previous "measurement comparison" was performed with the nano iDSD (not micro iDSD) battery at <10% and then measurements were taken which of course reflect badly (as the battery is about to shutdown, things don't measure normal).
  
 Very naughty indeed. (hint: the giveaway was in the readings when you have designed the thing, you should know the numbers inside and out!)
  
 We kept our cousel on this but more technically adept people easily saw through the bluster too as they verified with us off the record.
  
  
  
 The HD650/HD600 are quite "normal" as headphones go - we recommend "Normal" Power Mode. Then try iEMatch in the Off or HIgh Sensitivity to suit your ears and your music (as of course recording levels vary).
  
 Ideally, the analogue volume control should be 12 > 3 'o clock.


----------



## ClieOS

kawaivpc1 said:


> Did you check PHA-3's balanced out? Many people have said PHA-3's balanced out is the best ever made.
> I'm not sure how it sounds compared to iDSD. PHA-3 seems to be more portable than iDSD too.


 
  
 I did listen to the PHA-3's balanced-out, but not against iDSD micro as that's with another setup (and of course iDSD can't output balance). It isn't with a headphone I am familiar with (it is a balanced Z7), so I can't say how good it goes. But again, I didn't hear anything that wow me in the Sony booth.
  
 PHA-3 is indeed much more portable than iDSD micro, though it doesn't make a difference for me as I always have a small bag with me to carry my whole rig, plus a few more things. This totally depends on how big a rig that you consider non-portable. I am using a Sony A15 as a digital transport feeding the iDSD micro, so it is still quite manageable for me.


----------



## Hubert481

hubert481 said:


> Is there any adaptercable to listen iDSD micro via lightning adapter cable to Apple iPAD AND power both during listening?
> 
> In other words, is there an option to use a powered usb-hub - connected to iPAD and iDSD which allows listening and charging?
> 
> I do not have an IDSD now, so i cannot check it out myself - thank you



Here is the self powering usb-hub
http://www.lindy-usa.com/usb-hub-4-port-usb-20-smart-hub-pro-with-power-supply-42999.html


----------



## RAFA

clieos said:


> I did listen to the PHA-3's balanced-out, but not against iDSD micro as that's with another setup (and of course iDSD can't output balance). It isn't with a headphone I am familiar with (it is a balanced Z7), so I can't say how good it goes. But again, I didn't hear anything that wow me in the Sony booth.
> 
> PHA-3 is indeed much more portable than iDSD micro, though it doesn't make a difference for me as I always have a small bag with me to carry my whole rig, plus a few more things. This totally depends on how big a rig that you consider non-portable. I am using a Sony A15 as a digital transport feeding the iDSD micro, so it is still quite manageable for me.


 
  
 What cables do you use with the Sony in combination with the iDSD micro?


----------



## iFi audio

Calling all iCLUB members.
  
 If and only if you are comfortable with upgrading the firmware on your micro iDSD, then please see below and open a ticket with your concierge.
  
  
  
*3 Steps: Micro iDSD Firmware Upgrade (and nano iDSD and Stereo 50 but not other iFi products)*
  
*Preparation:*
 1.Ensure you have the latest iFi Windows Driver (v2.23 or v2.20) from here
  
 2.Once you receive the email, save the firmware file “*iFi firmware (Universal) v0.16 Beta.bin*” to a folder of your choice (eg. C: Downloads)
  
 3. Connect the NANO/MICRO iDSD or Stereo 50 to a Windows computer (OS X is not possible).
   
 Beta v0.16 is the same as v4.06, but:
 1) Upgrade core code to version 6.6
 2) Apply previous Clock and Code optimisation to 6.6 core
 3) Fix completely clicks when switching between PCM and DoP DSD
 4) Fix for some units where small timing bug on v4.06 caused vinyl static like clicks at 192kHz sample rates
 So the key change is an upgraded version of the core code and bug fixes.


----------



## WNBC

Checking in after 6 months of ownership.  The secret is well out of the bag by this point, but this iDSD Micro is an amazing device.  Having used it as a standalone DAC/amp with many headphones I will eventually try an external headphone amp out of curiosity.  However, the integrated amp suits my tastes.  I really like it with Grado headphones.  I borrowed a friend's PS1000 and I instantly knew the combo was a winner.  Even now, I am using it soley with a pair of HD800s and I could probably live with no separate amp for quite a while longer.  This is saying a lot because my former rig was a Decware CSP3 > Taboo 3 > HD800 which was no slouch of a setup.  
  
 Today there was a new first for me, trying the SPDIF input.  Dare I say better than USB input?  Well, I'll have to listen more but I like what I'm hearing.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

ifi audio said:


> Calling all iCLUB members.
> 
> If and only if you are comfortable with upgrading the firmware on your micro iDSD, then please see below and open a ticket with your concierge.
> 
> ...


 

 When will this for public? Or did we get a non beta like v4.07 or something?


----------



## Dobrescu George

a thing i had not read yet about ifi idsd micro is what op-amps and what amp buffers it uses.. if it is a public known thing...


----------



## Earbones

Regarding the 90° angled male Type A USB to female Type A USB cable... 

Appears some people are getting them, and some people are not. Also, it appears there are two versions, a black one and a clear/white one. 

Is this is a random thing, or if it is indicative of production batches? For instance, black cable denotes an early production batch, clear/white means from a later batch, and none at all means the latest batches? Or perhaps in some other order?

Mine didn't ship with one (I looked very carefully, in case I got the apparently easy-to-miss clear/white version), and I'm bummed about that... It's the one cable I actually DID need... For people using the iDSD with an iPad in a keyoard case, it's an essential length and design... Annoying I'll have to spend money on something that others got free.


----------



## MattTCG

Ooooh...just had a thought. Ifi micro idsd-b (b=balanced). Full balanced topology DAC to AMP. Take that Sony!!


----------



## EVOLVIST

matttcg said:


> Ooooh...just had a thought. Ifi micro idsd-b (b=balanced). Full balanced topology DAC to AMP. Take that Sony!!




That would be the iDSD pro, yo! Coming sometime this year (maybe as early as May 2015). From the preliminary specs it's going to take a few years before anybody else catches up.


----------



## rickyleelee

earbones said:


> Regarding the 90° angled male Type A USB to female Type A USB cable...
> 
> Appears some people are getting them, and some people are not. Also, it appears there are two versions, a black one and a clear/white one.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
It came limited in the first 512 Octa-Adopter units. So if you bought afterwards, then you don't get. Covered over in their crowd design thread. Go to page 1 and lookup the index. Mega info there.


----------



## rickyleelee

earbones said:


> Regarding the 90° angled male Type A USB to female Type A USB cable...
> 
> Appears some people are getting them, and some people are not. Also, it appears there are two versions, a black one and a clear/white one.
> 
> ...


 
  
Read the crowd-design thread. They gave out all the spec stuff there


----------



## ClieOS

rafa said:


> What cables do you use with the Sony in combination with the iDSD micro?


 
  
 The beauty of this setup is it only requires a USB OTG (WMC-NWH10) from Sony and no extra cable needed.


----------



## Earbones

Been charging the unit since it arrived this AM... The blue light turned off a few hours ago, so I decided to skip the full 24 hours and see what it could do.

I'm not a fanboy. Fanboys are idiots who proclaim anything under a grand that punches a little above it weight-class to be a competitor for $20,000 reference rigs. "Oh, the Micro iDSD has true reference bass!" or "It goes toe to toe with the Hugo!" blah, blah, blah. Whatever. It's a budget $499 DAC/amp, let's try and stay on planet earth. Fanboys. God.

Then I listened to it. I hate you guys. I'm not a fanboy. 

Okay, I'm a fanboy. Holy lord, this thing is bananas.


----------



## maricius

earbones said:


> Been charging the unit since it arrived this AM... The blue light turned off a few hours ago, so I decided to skip the full 24 hours and see what it could do.
> 
> I'm not a fanboy. Fanboys are idiots who proclaim anything under a grand that punches a little above it weight-class to be a competitor for $20,000 reference rigs. "Oh, the Micro iDSD has true reference bass!" or "It goes toe to toe with the Hugo!" blah, blah, blah. Whatever. It's a budget $499 DAC/amp, let's try and stay on planet earth. Fanboys. God.
> 
> ...


 

 I guess I'm a fanboy then. HAHA. I personally wasn't impressed upon first listen. It was one of the devices though that convinced me of burn in. CONGRATULATIONS on your new iDSD. Treat it well.


----------



## Earbones

maricius said:


> I guess I'm a fanboy then. HAHA. I personally wasn't impressed upon first listen. It was one of the devices though that convinced me of burn in. CONGRATULATIONS on your new iDSD. Treat it well.



I'm not even going to try and post reasonable, thought-out opinions on the Micro iDSD. I'm just going to listen, and occasionally post Ron Burgundy exclamations.

Neputunes Beard! This thing is made with bits of real panther!


----------



## jexby

earbones said:


> I'm not even going to try and post reasonable, thought-out opinions on the Micro iDSD. I'm just going to listen, and occasionally post Ron Burgundy exclamations.
> 
> Neputunes Beard! This thing is made with bits of real panther!


 
  
 HA!  best (non technical) post of the thread for awhile!  and I don't even like Ron Burgundy!


----------



## BillsonChang007

clieos said:


> The beauty of this setup is it only requires a USB OTG (WMC-NWH10) from Sony and no extra cable needed.


 
 in this mode, does it support up to 24/192 files?


----------



## ClieOS

billsonchang007 said:


> in this mode, does it support up to 24/192 files?


 

 Everything the A10 series supports (PCM, up to 24/192), it will output to iDSD micro.


----------



## BillsonChang007

clieos said:


> Everything the A10 series supports (PCM, up to 24/192), it will output to iDSD micro.


 
 many thanks!


----------



## EVOLVIST

I'm not sure what constitutes being a fanboy, but I will say this:

I've tried dozens of DACs, but the iDSD micro , fed from a computer, comes the closest to 100% analog audio without the trappings of overt colorization and/or loss of detail.

If your ear can hear it, it's in there.


----------



## RAFA

clieos said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 Thats simple. I expected two cables connected to each other. Thank you.
  
 Also it is a color matching and beautiful setup.
  
 My setup looks much more rough...


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I agree only one small cable is needed to full happiness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 I recommend a 90° angled USB OTG cable, which takes not so much space in depth as a straight USB OTG cable.
  
  
 btw. FiiO rubberbands are the best for that Samsung devices.


----------



## RAFA

h1f1add1cted said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 True


----------



## drews

I decided to give this unit a try, and I'm sure glad I did, it sounds fantastic!  One quirk I've noticed is that neither BitPerfect nor Audirvana+ can output optical to it if USB is connected (I suspect the "Intelligent SPDIF" is switching to output mode when those apps are running).  Not a big deal of course since USB is more capable...
  
 Drew


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, so who's using the micro with planar mags like: lcd2, he560, etc? Can the micro really drive these well?
  
 thanks...


----------



## john57

matttcg said:


> Okay, so who's using the micro with planar mags like: lcd2, he560, etc? Can the micro really drive these well?
> 
> thanks...


 
 It sure can with 4 watts available in turbo mode. You may not even have to use turbo mode.


----------



## fordski

Mine drives my LCD 2s very well just on normal mode. And they sound very good.


----------



## john57

john57 said:


> It sure can with 4 watts available in turbo mode. You may not even have to use turbo mode.


 
 P.S.  Works great with HE560 at RMAF.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thanks guys!! I didn't do as much research as I should have and didn't expect the micro to be able to drive those hp's. It it can really drive the "well" then I am humbled by the the performance and function of this diminutive device. 
  
 It has what I equate to a very natural "analogue" sound signature. I just love music with this device.


----------



## jexby

matttcg said:


> ^^ Thanks guys!! I didn't do as much research as I should have and didn't expect the micro to be able to drive those hp's. It it can really drive the "well" then I am humbled by the the performance and function of this diminutive device.
> 
> It has what I equate to a very natural "analogue" sound signature. I just love music with this device.




Matt,

I concur with the power of iDSD micro, heck don't even use Turbo with HE-560s and still get huge volume.
However I don't feel the built in amp sound stage or dynamics is on par with a dedicated amp like Lyr 2 or Polaris, or iTube + iCan.

iDSD as a DAC to Lyr 2 with good/great tubes delivers more of everything good IMHO,
and in short listens from iDSD micro to iTube and iCAN- that was also a good step up in sonics.

All that being said, iDSD micro is my favorite album-in-one device and wouldn't hesitate to use its amp from IEMs to 560.
But it may not beat otheir desktop, non portable choices.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I have two questions about idsd micro.
  
 Anyone compared how the AMP in it sounds compared to fiio e12a?
  
 Anyone can explain to me what would bring to me if i add idsd ican to the rig?
  
 I am saving money for e12a, but if idsd sounds better standalone, i might skip buying e12a, as it is about 50% the price of idsd micro, and i think that idsd might already have a better sounding amp, but e12a from fiio uses muses02 opamps, which are known to be some of the best opamps in the market, this is why i was curious about what op-amps does idsd micro use?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Great info and thanks for sharing!! I'm between amps ATM and originally started with the micro as DAC only. But lately I've been using it as all in one solution. I love the sound of DAC. The dual burr brown implementation just hits the sweet spot for performance and musicality. Great sound piece of kit for sure


----------



## Earbones

dobrescu george said:


> I have two questions about idsd micro.
> 
> Anyone compared how the AMP in it sounds compared to fiio e12a?
> 
> ...




I notice sound signature differences between DACs... As far as amps go, power is power. Unless you're talking about tubes, which do have their own unique thing going on, but the actual science there is that you're playing with what I'll call "pleasant distortion"... Others may disagree with this viewpoint, but this is what I've found. Of course, I've also found that the last two Strokes albums are their best to date. And I can count on one hand the number of people who agree with me. So different strokes for different folks. I also like puns. Why are you listening to me?

As far as comparing the amp portion of the e12a to the Micro iDSD, I can tell you that the IFI unit has a lot more juice to spread around than the FiiO... I had the standard e12, and it's really not a fair fight in that area. As for background blackness for using IEMs, I can report that the Micro iDSD is very black, with no hiss at all present, once the appropriate sensitivity is engaged via the IEMatch slider. FiiO makes quality product, I'd assumed the IEM-geared e12a will be black as well. Honestly, the FiiO will have plenty of juice for any IEM on the market. You'll just be missing out on the iDSD's excellent, insane-for-the-money DAC, and a few other parlor tricks, all of which I've found to be terrific.. Such as XBass, 3D, and the ability to choose your headphone sensitivity and amp gain. *EDIT:* Actually my e12 had gain adjustment. I'm sure the e12a will too. Unsure about headphone sensitivity options, though.





matttcg said:


> Okay, so who's using the micro with planar mags like: lcd2, he560, etc? Can the micro really drive these well?
> 
> thanks...




Yes. And I'll go one better... I don't believe a dedicated desktop amp could do a better job. Again, I'm of the belief that power is power... Once you have enough of it, a comfortable "overhead" for your speakers or headphones, then another mile or ten miles of overhead doesn't change a thing in terms of what your speakers or headphones can do. Audeze cans, LCD2 included, are fairly easy to drive for PMs... HE560's less so. The Micro iDSD's amp drives both with total authority, even on the Eco (LCD2) and Normal (LCD2 and HE560) modes, let alone Turbo.


----------



## Triodemode

earbones said:


> I notice sound signature differences between DACs... As far as amps go, power is power. Unless you're talking about tubes, which do have their own unique thing going on, but the actual science there is that you're playing with what I'll call "pleasant distortion"... Others may disagree with this viewpoint, but this is what I've found to be true (and a few sound engineers have too, ha ha).
> 
> As far as comparing the amp portion of the e12a to the Micro iDSD, I can tell you that the IFI unit has a lot more juice to spread around than the FiiO... I had the standard e12, and it's really not a fair fight in that area. As for background blackness for using IEMs, I can report that the Micro iDSD is very black, with no hiss at all present, once the appropriate sensitivity is engaged via the IEMatch slider. FiiO makes quality product, I'd assumed the IEM-geared e12a will be black as well. Honestly, the FiiO will have plenty of juice for any IEM on the market. You'll just be missing out on the iDSD's excellent, insane-for-the-money DAC, and a few other parlor tricks, all of which I've found to be terrific.. Such as XBass, 3D, and the ability to choose your headphone sensitivity and amp gain. *EDIT:* Actually my e12 had gain adjustment. I'm sure the e12a will too. Unsure about headphone sensitivity options, though.
> Yes. And I'll go one better... I don't believe a dedicated desktop amp could do a better job. Again, I'm of the belief that power is power... Once you have enough of it, a comfortable "overhead" for your speakers or headphones, then another mile or ten miles of overhead doesn't change a thing in terms of what your speakers or headphones can do. Audeze cans, LCD2 included, are fairly easy to drive for PMs... HE560's less so. The Micro iDSD's amp drives both with total authority, even on the Eco (LCD2) and Normal (LCD2 and HE560) modes, let alone Turbo.


 

 There are several aspects of an amplifier which determine sound quality besides power.  It is well established (particularly in headphone amplifiers) that for a given power output, properly designed class A is absolutely sonically superior to A/B.  It has also been clearly stated by many people who own the iDSD micro, that the only way to fully hear all the DAC has to offer is with a high quality external amplifier connected to it's RCA outputs in direct mode.
  
 As has been said many times throughout this topic here by myself and others, the iDSD micro's DAC section is stunning in it's design, implentation (filter choices) and sound quality however, this is slightly offset by including an A/B headphone amp design that has put high power output ahead of absolute sound quality.   I have yet to read of anyone who uses their iDSD micro as purely a headphone amp.


----------



## jexby

triodemode said:


> There are several aspects of an amplifier which determine sound quality besides power.  It is well established (particularly in headphone amplifiers) that for a given power output, properly designed class A is absolutely sonically superior to A/B.  It has also been clearly stated by many people who own the iDSD micro, that the only way to fully hear all the DAC has to offer is with a high quality external amplifier connected to it's RCA outputs in direct mode.
> 
> As has been said many times throughout this topic here by myself and others, the iDSD micro's DAC section is stunning in it's design, implentation (filter choices) and sound quality however, this is slightly offset by including an A/B headphone amp design that has put high power output ahead of absolute sound quality.   I have yet to read of anyone who uses their iDSD micro as purely a headphone amp.


 
  
 wow man, aced it!  Bravo!
  
 iDSD micro amp with sensitive IEMs around the house, or using amp when portable makes perfect sense.
  
 but if possible- hooking it up to a desktop amp with big cans is certainly where the sonic bliss happens.


----------



## diamondears

triodemode said:


> There are several aspects of an amplifier which determine sound quality besides power.  It is well established (particularly in headphone amplifiers) that for a given power output, properly designed class A is absolutely sonically superior to A/B.  It has also been clearly stated by many people who own the iDSD micro, that the only way to fully hear all the DAC has to offer is with a high quality external amplifier connected to it's RCA outputs in direct mode.
> 
> As has been said many times throughout this topic here by myself and others, the iDSD micro's DAC section is stunning in it's design, implentation (filter choices) and sound quality however, this is slightly offset by including an A/B headphone amp design that has put high power output ahead of absolute sound quality.   I have yet to read of anyone who uses their iDSD micro as purely a headphone amp.



Have you heard the micro iDSD vs micro iDSD+micro iCAN? Care to detail the differences in SQ, however tiny?


----------



## jexby

diamondears said:


> Have you heard the micro iDSD vs micro iDSD+micro iCAN? Care to detail the differences in SQ, however tiny?




please take all this with large grains of salt, as I took my HE-560 to RMAF CanJam and did hook them up (for only 8 minutes!) to a chain of
 iDSD micro--> iTube --> iCAN.
note:  this was not iCan alone, nor are my ears used to a SS amp like Asgard 2 to compare to iCan.
ears are used to Lyr 2 with good NOS tubes --> HE-560.

but the iCAN+iTube delivered noticeable improvement.
why?  suspect iTube added some of that warmth, which even Dr. Fang at RMAF said he enjoyed with 560s.
soundstage got wider, and some details were easier to discern but also flowed very well.

having HE-560s with Lyr 2 at home nightly, the iCAN+iTube make me think - "hey this is starting to sound like at home."
alas, did not stay at table for another 30+ minutes to truly focus on this fact.


----------



## Triodemode

diamondears said:


> Have you heard the micro iDSD vs micro iDSD+micro iCAN? Care to detail the differences in SQ, however tiny?


 

 My personal experience is with the dedicated heaphone amp section in my Marantz PM6005 integrated amp using Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm and Sennheisher HD650's.  Both of these hadphones vary in both their sensitivity and tonality.  Obviously the iDSD had no problem driving these cans however, playing all genes and resolutions of music - the sonic presentation had a bigger and more easy musical sound listening through the Marantz when compared to the iDSD's headphone section.  Both had equal detail retrival and slam, but  the iDSD micro sounded slightly pinched, edgy and fatiguing with the DT880's through the iDSD micro heaphone amp in compasion. 
  
 Question... If the headphone amp in the iDSD was equal to it's DAC sonically, then whay are so many people still talking of improvements in sound using seperate comparable priced amps from companies like Schiit, Garage and it's own iCAN?  Answer, they all utilize class A designs...
  
 Overall the iDSD is a fantastic class leading product.  I'm merely exposing the one aspect which IMO could be improved.


----------



## Earbones

triodemode said:


> There are several aspects of an amplifier which determine sound quality besides power.  It is well established (particularly in headphone amplifiers) that for a given power output, properly designed class A is absolutely sonically superior to A/B.  It has also been clearly stated by many people who own the iDSD micro, that the only way to fully hear all the DAC has to offer is with a high quality external amplifier connected to it's RCA outputs in direct mode.
> 
> As has been said many times throughout this topic here by myself and others, the iDSD micro's DAC section is stunning in it's design, implentation (filter choices) and sound quality however, this is slightly offset by including an A/B headphone amp design that has put high power output ahead of absolute sound quality.   I have yet to read of anyone who uses their iDSD micro as purely a headphone amp.



This is actually the perfect example of two different schools of thought in audio. You state that it is "well established" that class A power is "absolutely sonically superior" to A/B. Folks who think like I do will respond by asking you to define what absolutely established means. And further, to quantify sonically superior. Scientifically, power is power. Scientifically, you shouldn't be hearing anything different. Folks on your side of the fence respond by asking how anything in our hobby can be quantified in that manner when at the end of the day we're discussing inherently subjective listening experiences, and while an A/B session (for whatever) may graph on instruments as nearly identical, there are enough people hearing big differences that the anecdotal evidence can't be ignored.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle... People do tend to hear things that aren't there. And there are real differences that are reasonably heard as either good or bad that for whatever reason are difficult to scientifically map.

For argument's sake, I cast myself as firmly on one side of the fence... The truth is, I'm pretty much in the middle of things. For better or worse, I spend good money on bespoke cables, an industry with basically zero scientific credibility. There are absolutely cables I like, and cables I dislike. Although I know that put to the instruments and graphed, there would be no difference. When it comes to power, I'm more on the other side of things. I enjoy mucking about with tubes, but SS all sounds the same to me... There's enough of it, or there isn't. But that's me... Some will agree, others won't.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm huge into the isolation thing. Big believer in speaker blocks, footers, et al. Even for smaller components. This shadowy corner of audiophilia is perhaps the most drenched in snake oil... But I have to trust my ears. In the end, what someone thinks sounds better, worse, or the same is just an idea... That's what's cool about this forum. You share your ideas, I share mine... And maybe both of us come away from the conversation with a whole new idea. And a shopping list of new gear to buy to test out the idea, ha ha.


----------



## maricius

First and foremost, I have used the iDSD as amp only with my iPod Video 5.5g and Final Audio Design Heaven VI. Synergy and tonality was better than with the iDSD's DAC. The iPod has great synergy alone with the FADs but the noise of the headphone out made me search for a clean, lean and transparent amplifier. However, this was too bulky to be practical and I've exchanged the iDSD with the HeadAmp Pico Slim for portability issues and very close lean and transparent tonality albeit with a smaller soundstage than the iDSD's amp. To the Class A argument, not all Class A will be better than the iDSD's amplifier. I personally agree with iFi's stance how true discrete Class A is too impractical for a battery powered device. I personally think that the amp section has wonderful synergy with the DAC in creating a reference sound and tonality. If you can find an amp with similar tonality but better technicalities or an amp that would synergize better for your tastes, good for you.

Class A is a word tossed around and should not be end-all in determining sound quality. I'm pretty convinced in hearing differences in solid state amplifiers be it different opamps or different Class A implementation. Overall, if iFi says they couldn't have done better for the iDSD's amp with the current tech in the market while retaining the iFi's price, I believe them. 

I'm personally looking at tube desktop amps for my Alpha Dog not out of dissatisfaction but for the chance I may hear that signifiant improvement.


----------



## Triodemode

earbones said:


> This is actually the perfect example of two different schools of thought in audio. You state that it is "well established" that class A power is "absolutely sonically superior" to A/B. Folks who think like I do will respond by asking you to define what absolutely established means. And further, to quantify sonically superior. Scientifically, power is power. Scientifically, you shouldn't be hearing anything different. Folks on your side of the fence respond by asking how anything in our hobby can be quantified in that manner when at the end of the day we're discussing inherently subjective listening experiences, and while an A/B session (for whatever) may graph on instruments as nearly identical, there are enough people hearing big differences that the anecdotal evidence can't be ignored.
> 
> I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle... People do tend to hear things that aren't there. And there are real differences that are reasonably heard as either good or bad that for whatever reason are difficult to scientifically map.
> 
> ...


 

 Established by the majority of both designers and audiophiles alike.  iFi even agrees as their iCAN is indeed biased class A.  Of course where more power is needed with less current draw in battery powered amps then class A/B is utilized.  And this brings me to the heart of my criticism. 
  
 IMO instead of having switch positons on the iDSD micro merely change power levels, iFi could have conveyed 100% of the DAC's sonic bliss at 100 mw with half the battery life in class A mode at one position.  This power level would still drive a large variety of IEM and full size cans, and I am willing to bet that many users would gladly give up battery life as a tradeoff.  Then have the other two switch positions be the equivalent of eco and normal mode when battery life is desired or planar headphones are used.  To me this would be a much better implentation of the headphone section, and give users of more sensitive headphones the ability to hear that last 5% of the DAC's sound quality.
  
 I to love tubes hence my name here on HeadFi.  Tubes are linear devices and as such are much easier to design in conveying music.  The obvious downfall is current consumption and size requirements.  This is why so many people prefer when the iTUBE buffer is inserted into their systems.  Just like your attention to different cables and vibration isolation, it also has to a large degree influence on sound quality.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I was wondering specifically how idsd micro compares to e12a because i know that e12a uses muses02 op-amp, and it has an amazing sound with everything that doesn't need more power. 
  
 Sadly, i can test e12a but cannot test ifi idsd micro, and idsd micro costs rougly 2X e12a price, and, if i would not need an e12a while i have idsd micro, i would not really buy e12a anymore. or i would. but after i get idsd micro.
  
 About how much an amp can change the sound : I like sold state amps sound more. Maybe it is only to my ears, but SS sounds much closer to natural and being transparent, where while lamps have a particular sound which is fun, i love my amps and DACs as transparent as possible. Transparency means retrieval of details, micro details, soundstage, the tonality to be as live instruments.


----------



## Earbones

triodemode said:


> Established by the majority of both designers and audiophiles alike...


 
  
 Yes, but that's my point... That's the opinion of some people. It's not established fact as dictated by scientific method. And again, I'm not knocking it. Some folks can hear a difference, and subscribe to the theory that SS amps have unique sound characteristics from one to another that make them substantial factors in a rig's sound signature. And other folks think SS amps are power, and nothing more. Both sides have their merits. Have you looked at the tolerances of modern SS amplifiers? You'd be hard pressed to find an ear specialist who would look at those numbers and say that the human ear is capable of discerning one from the other. But again... I'll respect and listen to people who say they can hear a difference. And hopefully when I say that I like cable X over cable Y, nobody will tell me that I'm crazy, because frankly those tolerance numbers are just as uniform. Probably more.  
  
 I hope you see by this point that I'm not holding up scientific method as the gospel here, since it defeats many of my ideas about audio as well. I'm just using it as a foil to the idea that some of the more subjective audiophile opinions are established, simply because of the number of people who subscribe to them. 
  
 Again it all boils down to different ears...


----------



## MattTCG

I wonder if I could get some comments on the itube paired with the micro.
  
 thanks...


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> I wonder if I could get some comments on the itube paired with the micro.
> 
> thanks...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Why ask if you may find out for yourself?
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



...hint: there is a chance to win the iTUBE coming soon so watch this.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/753978/ifi-audio-retro-stereo-50-discussion-thread


  
 Something coming out before the end of this week


----------



## Triodemode

earbones said:


> Yes, but that's my point... That's the opinion of some people. It's not established fact as dictated by scientific method. And again, I'm not knocking it. Some folks can hear a difference, and subscribe to the theory that SS amps have unique sound characteristics from one to another that make them substantial factors in a rig's sound signature. And other folks think SS amps are power, and nothing more. Both sides have their merits. Have you looked at the tolerances of modern SS amplifiers? You'd be hard pressed to find an ear specialist who would look at those numbers and say that the human ear is capable of discerning one from the other. But again... I'll respect and listen to people who say they can hear a difference. And hopefully when I say that I like cable X over cable Y, nobody will tell me that I'm crazy, because frankly those tolerance numbers are just as uniform. Probably more.
> 
> I hope you see by this point that I'm not holding up scientific method as the gospel here, since it defeats many of my ideas about audio as well. I'm just using it as a foil to the idea that some of the more subjective audiophile opinions are established, simply because of the number of people who subscribe to them.
> 
> Again it all boils down to different ears...


 

 I definetly agree with your point here Earbones...  Much of what is introduced into our hobby is indeed only heard by a small number of people's ears. Although when the vast majority concur regarding a product such as the iDSD micro, I think it has more to do with proper science based engineering and less to do with snake oil.  Of course in the end nothing compares to a good sense of hearing, and even the best designs need to be tweeaked with comprehensive listening tests.


----------



## MattTCG

^^Hmm...color me interested. I love vintage and retro!!


----------



## kawaivpc1

drews said:


> I decided to give this unit a try, and I'm sure glad I did, it sounds fantastic!  One quirk I've noticed is that neither BitPerfect nor Audirvana+ can output optical to it if USB is connected (I suspect the "Intelligent SPDIF" is switching to output mode when those apps are running).  Not a big deal of course since USB is more capable...
> 
> Drew




Awesome.


----------



## iFi audio

Look who has their paws on Audeze EL-8 and micro iDSD.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Wow, that's awesome! Is that the closed back? Are you at liberty to share some impressions? There are a lot of people who would love to hear about that hp with the micro...
  
 Ok, now I can see that it is open backed. 
  
  
 Regarding the micro, what is the best procedure to get the most out of the battery after several complete discharges and full recharges? Should it be turned off at the end of the day when no longer in use?


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> ^^ Wow, that's awesome! Is that the closed back? Are you at liberty to share some impressions? There are a lot of people who would love to hear about that hp with the micro...
> 
> Ok, now I can see that it is open backed.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 It ain't iFi who is running the Audeze EL-8 with the micro iDSD. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Turned on or off, best to keep the battery fully-charged and let the SmartPower take care of the rest.
  
 Once in a while such as every few months or so, a full charge full > discharge > full charge wont do any harm. IBM laptops used to come with these instructions.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the info, sir. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  BTW...you can't get away with saying "ain't" unless you're from the deep south.


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> Thanks for the info, sir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Touche!


----------



## Hubert481

CLICK NOISE
 Just got an iDSD micro...
 By turning it on and off, i hear a klicking noise in my headphone - i expected the iDSD to be absolut silent during turning the unit on and off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Is there any trick/tip to avoid this noise in my headphone when turning the iDSD on and off?
  
 My big dac, preamp and amp at home do not make any noise therefore. They have a kind of  protective circuit therefore.


----------



## MattTCG

AFAIK...the click is inherent to the design. Mine make the slight click with on and off operation. Now a few pages ago someone was reporting a loud pop during on/off. This is not good and should have a trouble ticket started for.


----------



## technobear

matttcg said:


> BTW...you can't get away with saying "ain't" unless you're from the deep south.




You've never visited England have you?

You should.


----------



## Hubert481

matttcg said:


> AFAIK...the click is inherent to the design. Mine make the slight click with on and off operation. Now a few pages ago someone was reporting a loud pop during on/off. This is not good and should have a trouble ticket started for.


 

 i would not say, it is a slight click, pop seems to be a better word for my unit - loud is relative - it is not loud, but i would not like to have the headphone connected. very irritating (using a TH900)


----------



## MattTCG

technobear said:


> You've never visited England have you?
> 
> You should.


 
  
 Yep, after college backpack across most of Europe. It's been a few years ago though...96'
  
  
 Saw some great soccer matches...got to see a match at Wimbledon....drank a few pints...snogged a few ladies. Best trip of my life.


----------



## maricius

A review I've been waiting for quite a while in case you guys haven't read it. Not overtly descriptive but the rankings and comparisons to the other reviewed DACs is sufficient:
  
#72
  
 Link to the first post:
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/review-portable-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-dacs-audioquest-dragonfly-meridian-explorer-director-ifi-idac-idsd-geek-out-pulse-19272/
  
 I discovered this thread way back when I was reading about the Meridian Audio Director (or Direct DAC, I'm not sure by what name it's going around as anymore).


----------



## Hubert481

Perhaps ifi audio can tell me anything if the pop from turning on and off can be solved by an firmware update.
Are some units brocken, or does really every unit have this "feature"?


----------



## ImperialBlade

What music players or sources are folks pairing with the iFi iDSD Micro?

Regards,
Eric


----------



## jimmypowder

imperialblade said:


> What music players or sources are folks pairing with the iFi iDSD Micro?
> 
> Regards,
> Eric



I attached a ifi micro idsd to an Anthem 225 integrated amp using aux in and it sounded horrible . I'm a little puzzled because the ifi sound great using headphones and the usb out with a pair of headphones . The Anthem sounds great using a Audiolab Mdac with xlr out to the xlr in on the Anthem amp . Maybe this amp only sounds good using xlr in but I'm not sure why that would be


----------



## LoryWiv

iBasso DX90 digital coax. out, very fine results.


----------



## technobear

jimmypowder said:


> imperialblade said:
> 
> 
> > What music players or sources are folks pairing with the iFi iDSD Micro?
> ...




Switch your micro iDSD to 'Direct' mode?

If you were using it in 'Pre-amp' mode with the volume up high then you may have overloaded the input on the Anthem.


----------



## BenWaB3

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Some Native DSD free downloads if you search through the New Blog archives.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I couldn't find any downloads on the first link. Is there a step I missed? Also, how does one join the iCLUB? I've already done what presumably would be one of the first qualifications - I got an iDSD micro a little over a month ago  Thanks in advance.


----------



## jimmypowder

technobear said:


> Switch your micro iDSD to 'Direct' mode?
> 
> If you were using it in 'Pre-amp' mode with the volume up high then you may have overloaded the input on the Anthem.




It was in direct mode ,making it even more puzzling and on battery power .


----------



## technobear

jimmypowder said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Switch your micro iDSD to 'Direct' mode?
> ...




Flat battery?


----------



## jimmypowder

technobear said:


> Flat battery?


 

 Fully Charged but maybe it was just cold and I didn't listen too it long enough.


----------



## ImperialBlade

lorywiv said:


> iBasso DX90 digital coax. out, very fine results.


 
 THanks LoryWiv for the recommendation! The sabre chips in those (from what I have read) are really something!
  
 Regards,
 Eric


----------



## technobear

jimmypowder said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Flat battery?
> ...




Could it be a bad cable?


----------



## MattTCG

Stupid question, what settings are recommended for the digital filter? Standard for all PCM and extreme for DSD?


----------



## jimmypowder

technobear said:


> Could it be a bad cable?



No I was trying through coax . I'm gonna check using usb to see if that is better maybe coax isn't that good


----------



## technobear

matttcg said:


> Stupid question, what settings are recommended for the digital filter? Standard for all PCM and extreme for DSD?




Bit Perfect


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> Stupid question, what settings are recommended for the digital filter? Standard for all PCM and extreme for DSD?


 
  
 What sounds best to you.


----------



## MattTCG

So the filters are purely subjective based on your taste or are some meant to go with the type of format the music is ripped?


----------



## EVOLVIST

matttcg said:


> So the filters are purely subjective based on your taste or are some meant to go with the type of format the music is ripped?




Yeah, like I go with Bit-Perfect for PCM since it sounds so natural, but Extended (the middle position) for DSD because it sounds more natural to me. Extended makes DSD come alive, like it should sound. Jeff Beck's "Blow by Blow," MJ's "Thriller" and Aerosmith's "Toys in the Attic"...WOW! I've never experienced anything like it.


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> So the filters are purely subjective based on your taste or are some meant to go with the type of format the music is ripped?


 
  
 Here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-v0-16-beta-firmware-calling-iclub-members-page-135/1050#post_10662147


----------



## rickyleelee

hubert481 said:


> CLICK NOISE
> Just got an iDSD micro...
> By turning it on and off, i hear a klicking noise in my headphone - i expected the iDSD to be absolut silent during turning the unit on and off.
> 
> ...


 
  
In the crowd design thread this was asked a while back. Keep vol low or insert headphone after power on. No mute circuit as it doesn't help the sq.


----------



## Sound Eq

guys i need your help, i bought the hp stream 7 windows 8.1 tablet, and i am connecting it to my idsd, the problem is battery on such windows tablets drains fast, is there a connection i can use to charge and listen to music at the same time?


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> is there a connection i can use to charge and listen to music at the same time?




No.

I assume you're using the iDSD in battery mode.


----------



## Sound Eq

technobear said:


> No.
> 
> I assume you're using the iDSD in battery mode.


 

 i am using it in direct mode connected to my alo mk3 amp so my setup is hp stream--- idsd---alo mk3
  
 what i do is i turn on the idsd first then i connect it to my hp stream 7
  
 am i doing this the right way, or should i also play with the buttons on the idsd


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > No.
> ...




Sounds right. 

What kind of battery life are you getting out of the Stream 7? Is it in line with the manufacturers specs?

If you stop playing music and allow the iDSD to go into sleep mode, it will draw whatever current the Stream 7 can supply to recharge itself. Turn off the iDSD when you are not actually playing music.


----------



## Sound Eq

technobear said:


> Sounds right.
> 
> What kind of battery life are you getting out of the Stream 7? Is it in line with the manufacturers specs?
> 
> If you stop playing music and allow the iDSD to go into sleep mode, it will draw whatever current the Stream 7 can supply to recharge itself. Turn off the iDSD when you are not actually playing music.


 

 i barely get 2.5 hours and sometimes 3 hours playing music.
  
 I turn off the idsd when i am not using it
  
 according to hp stream site they claim a battery life of 7 hours
  
 does it make any difference when i use eco, standard or turbo when i am using my idsd in direct mode to my alo mk3
  
 i really like the form factor of the h stream 7 the 7 inch screen is just perfect to use it along with jriver, i wish there is some better battery powered 7 inch windows 8 machine than this hp stream 7, there are many 8 inch tablets but only very very few 7 inch windows 8.1 tablets
  
 no other dap or player can give u the amazing tweaks that jriver can give so i am really wishing for an ultimate powerhouse windows 8.1 tablet in 7 inch or less even. Besides the panasonic tough book which is way too expensive


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> i barely get 2.5 hours and sometimes 3 hours playing music.




Is the screen turned on the whole time? You'll get longer times if the screen turns off.


----------



## Sound Eq

technobear said:


> Is the screen turned on the whole time? You'll get longer times if the screen turns off.


 
 u can't turn off the screen to keep jriver running in background as that is with most windows 8 tablets


----------



## kugino

the right channel on my iDSD is not working anymore...i've tried different sources, different headphones, etc. and same result. don't know if anyone else has experienced this...interested to see if this is just me or there have been other instances...


----------



## tf1216

kugino, 

Would you mind telling us what the music chain looks like? Include all components and cable types.


----------



## jexby

kugino said:


> the right channel on my iDSD is not working anymore...i've tried different sources, different headphones, etc. and same result. don't know if anyone else has experienced this...interested to see if this is just me or there have been other instances...


 
  
 had this happen to mine in the past month as well.  affected the amplifier only.  RCA outs (using iDSD micro as pure DAC) to another headphone amp was fine.
  
 best to open a ticket with iFi support.  they were fast, responsive and got the iDSD micro back to my ears very quickly.


----------



## kugino

jexby said:


> had this happen to mine in the past month as well.  affected the amplifier only.  RCA outs (using iDSD micro as pure DAC) to another headphone amp was fine.
> 
> best to open a ticket with iFi support.  they were fast, responsive and got the iDSD micro back to my ears very quickly.


 

 cool, thanks for the info. i've opened a ticket with ifi...i'm not worried...i'm sure they'll take care of things quickly.


----------



## MattTCG

What would be the proper cable to connect my phone (HTC m8) to the micro? And would the micro still be able as DAC and amp under that configuration?
  
 thanks...


----------



## kugino

tf1216 said:


> kugino,
> 
> Would you mind telling us what the music chain looks like? Include all components and cable types.


 

 yeah, i tried 2 configurations:
  
 1. imac->usb cable (ifi supplied blue one)->iDSD->various headphones (k7xx, th900, sr60)
 2. iphone 6 plus->apple CCK->Onkyo HF Player->iDSD->various headphones
  
 same with both - only left channel works. unit worked fine until last night...spontaneously cut out.


----------



## technobear

matttcg said:


> What would be the proper cable to connect my phone (HTC m8) to the micro? And would the micro still be able as DAC and amp under that configuration?
> 
> thanks...




http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs


----------



## technobear

kugino said:


> tf1216 said:
> 
> 
> > kugino,
> ...




Can you try the RCA outputs?


----------



## ultraman

hubert481 said:


> i would not say, it is a slight click, pop seems to be a better word for my unit - loud is relative - it is not loud, but i would not like to have the headphone connected. very irritating (using a TH900)


 
 Agree, please keep in mind that this (pop) also happens from waking up from sleep mode.
 I have learned to always unplug my headphones when I'm not using it. But it should not have to be that way.
  
 Btw Consumer should not be worried about when using a product.


----------



## JuleZ3C

ultraman said:


> Btw Consumer should not be worried about when using a product.


 
  
 Usually, consumer is worried because he/she doesn't (want to) know / understand the product*
 That's how we've given away our right to have an oil gauge / dipstick in our cars!  (for instance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )
 Consumers being devoided of all responsibility is the end of civilization...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 * Which is often remedied by reading the manual...


----------



## Musicans2

After reading the whole thread, I finally got a Micro. Thanks Everyone for all input in the posts with awesome info and specs!!! Perfect with HD700s. Chilling!!! Finally.


----------



## MattTCG

Glad that you found this thread and the Micro. I continue to be more and more impressed with mine. Honestly, I never believed this level of performance and function was possible in a device this size. It's definitely up for my product of the year...


----------



## MattTCG

Question: today hooked the micro up to a separate amp. I set the micro to "pre-amp" on the bottom of the unit. Shouldn't the volume from the micro now be set to fixed? Does the xbass and 3D functionality still work when using the micro only as a dac?
  
 thanks...


----------



## BenWaB3

matttcg said:


> Question: today hooked the micro up to a separate amp. I set the micro to "pre-amp" on the bottom of the unit. Shouldn't the volume from the micro now be set to fixed? Does the xbass and 3D functionality still work when using the micro only as a dac?
> 
> thanks...


 

 Actually the wording on the Micro is a little misleading. When ending the signal to a separate amp the setting should be "direct".


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Ahhhh. I knew that something wasn't quite right. I'll try it now and thank you!!


----------



## maricius

matttcg said:


> Question: today hooked the micro up to a separate amp. I set the micro to "pre-amp" on the bottom of the unit. Shouldn't the volume from the micro now be set to fixed? Does the xbass and 3D functionality still work when using the micro only as a dac?
> 
> thanks...


 

 "Pre-amp" is variable output and the XBass and 3D still functions. "Direct" is direct from the DAC so only the digital filters come into play.


----------



## MattTCG

Got it and thanks!


----------



## BillsonChang007

maricius said:


> "Pre-amp" is variable output and the XBass and 3D still functions. "Direct" is direct from the DAC so only the digital filters come into play.




But it only function and suitable for speakers mostly when in preamp if I am not mistaken


----------



## technobear

billsonchang007 said:


> maricius said:
> 
> 
> > "Pre-amp" is variable output and the XBass and 3D still functions. "Direct" is direct from the DAC so only the digital filters come into play.
> ...




Only the 3D function is specific to headphones or to speakers.

If you plug in headphones, you get 3D for headphones.

If you use the RCA outputs (in Pre-Amp mode), you get 3D for speakers.

They sound quite different.

If you are using the RCAs to feed another headphone amp, don't use the 3D function as it will sound very strange.


----------



## BillsonChang007

technobear said:


> Only the 3D function is specific to headphones or to speakers.
> 
> If you plug in headphones, you get 3D for headphones.
> 
> ...




Yeap! Thanks for the confirmation  

But it is always worth the try! It sounds pretty good on my K702/65 feed with Garage1217 Project Sunrise III haha


----------



## Heartsmart

logscool said:


> How does this compare to the Centrance Hifi-M8 both in terms of their capabilities as a DAC only and also as a headphone amp particularly for planars like the Alpha Prime? I would love to hear from anyone who has heard both of them or has any thoughts. Especially if you have heard them paired with the Alpha Prime.





I am also interested in a comparison with Centrance hifi m8. Anyone who has heard both?


----------



## jexby

heartsmart said:


> I am also interested in a comparison with Centrance hifi m8. Anyone who has heard both?




Yup, had both for a few months. IEMs much cleaner with iDSD micro.
3D feature also a winner.
With bigger cans they are close in quality, but the engineering features of iDSD (single USB port, usb charging of battery, iPureifier) won me over.
Sold M8 and not regretted a minute.

Will provide more details later today.


----------



## natra084

Hi has anybody compared the ican micro and the ican nano against the idsd micro I want to buy the idsd micro because of its features but if the ican sounds better than the idsd micro then I have to buy that ican.


----------



## Dobrescu George

natra084 said:


> Hi has anybody compared the ican micro and the ican nano against the idsd micro I want to buy the idsd micro because of its features but if the ican sounds better than the idsd micro then I have to buy that ican.


 
 depends on what are you driving, i think. considering that ican and idsd have very different power outputs. at least as i understood from their site.


----------



## technobear

natra084 said:


> Hi has anybody compared the ican micro and the ican nano against the idsd micro I want to buy the idsd micro because of its features but if the ican sounds better than the idsd micro then I have to buy that ican.




With apologies to your wallet, you have to buy the micro iDSD *AND* the micro iCAN - 

but then I think you probably knew that already :rolleyes:

The good news is that you can buy the micro iDSD and enjoy it immensely while saving up for the micro iCAN


----------



## natra084

technobear said:


> With apologies to your wallet, you have to buy the micro iDSD *AND* the micro iCAN -
> 
> but then I think you probably knew that already :rolleyes:
> 
> The good news is that you can buy the micro iDSD and enjoy it immensely while saving up for the micro iCAN



ok but does the Nano ican sound better then the micro idsd


----------



## technobear

natra084 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > With apologies to your wallet, you have to buy the micro iDSD *AND* the micro iCAN -
> ...




No idea. I've never heard a nano iCAN. I suspect it will not sound as good as it is not class A (neither is iDSD), it's not very powerful and it's a much cheaper chip than the one in the iDSD.

The micro iCAN on the other hand is a whole other ballgame. It definitely sounds better than the iDSD.


----------



## Heartsmart

heartsmart said:


> I am also interested in a comparison with Centrance hifi m8. Anyone who has heard both?


 
  
  


jexby said:


> Yup, had both for a few months. IEMs much cleaner with iDSD micro.
> 3D feature also a winner.
> With bigger cans they are close in quality, but the engineering features of iDSD (single USB port, usb charging of battery, iPureifier) won me over.
> Sold M8 and not regretted a minute.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the your reply!
 I am loocking for a portable or semi portable dac/amp that I can connect to ipad/iphone to listen to Wimp hifi through my Grado 325e. At this moment I am leaning to iDSD Micro. But sometime I wonder how much better the combination iDAC micro and iCAN micro suonds.


----------



## jexby

heartsmart said:


> Thanks for the your reply!
> I am loocking for a portable or semi portable dac/amp that I can connect to ipad/iphone to listen to Wimp hifi through my Grado 325e. At this moment I am leaning to iDSD Micro. But sometime I wonder how much better the combination iDAC micro and iCAN micro suonds.




Don't buy iDAC as iDAC2 should be out in March.
the iDSD micro still will have the best DAC section in a transportable set up, even over iDAC2.

Most folks would agree that iCAN has a better amp section than amp in iDSD micro.
So maybe iDSD micro + iCAN at desktop (eventually) and iDSD micro solo when on travel?


----------



## almarti

Any comparisson between iFi micro iDSD and new Oppo HA-2?
 To be paired with bout IEM and Senn HD600 and PXC450


----------



## ClieOS

almarti said:


> Any comparisson between iFi micro iDSD and new Oppo HA-2?
> To be paired with bout IEM and Senn HD600 and PXC450


 
  
 Listened to OPPO HA-2 prototype late last year and it is really good. I'll say that iDSD micro is better overall, but OPPO does get close. I'll pick HA-2 if portability is a concern, but otherwise it is iDSD micro for me. I'll see if I can find a final production HA-2 for a comparison or not.


----------



## MattTCG

That's pretty high praise sir...


----------



## jexby

matttcg said:


> That's pretty high praise sir...




Indeed.

Not saying the following question solely defines the iDSD micro greatness, but-
Do any other transportable, or heck- even small desktop DAC have dual mono chip designs?
One DAC chip for each Left and Right channel. IIRC.

I can't think of any, even in the lineups of Schiit, CEntrance, LH labs, Resonessence....


----------



## WNBC

i Basso DX90 but I haven't heard one.
  
  
 Quote:


jexby said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Do any other transportable, or heck- even small desktop DAC have dual mono chip designs?
> One DAC chip for each Left and Right channel. IIRC.
> ...


----------



## maricius

iDSD is better imo


----------



## EVOLVIST

wnbc said:


> i Basso DX90 but I haven't heard one.


 
  
 I had one of those for a little while. It can't power much of anything. It's a straight up DAP. I guess the DX90 is cool...but the comparison between DX90 and iDSD micro - dual configuration or not - ends at they both play music. The iDSD micro destroys it SQ wise...but they are for different purposes, so the comparison might not be fair.


----------



## Dobrescu George

evolvist said:


> I had one of those for a little while. It can't power much of anything. It's a straight up DAP. I guess the DX90 is cool...but the comparison between DX90 and iDSD micro - dual configuration or not - ends at they both play music. The iDSD micro destroys it SQ wise...but they are for different purposes, so the comparison might not be fair.


 
 as you said it, considering that idsd will need a source of fies, they cannot really be compared. the cost is spend in something else.


----------



## WNBC

One Head-fier did which is the only reason the DX90 was on my radar.  In the end it boils down to personal preference.  iDSD sounds excellent so no reason for me to explore DAC jumping.  Comparisons between the two are fair if one is using them as a DAC into one's favorite amp.  I take it you have a different opinion as you say the iDSD destroys it SQ-wise.  Curiosity over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/12596
  
  
 Quote:


evolvist said:


> I had one of those for a little while. It can't power much of anything. It's a straight up DAP. I guess the DX90 is cool...but the comparison between DX90 and iDSD micro - dual configuration or not - ends at they both play music. The iDSD micro destroys it SQ wise...but they are for different purposes, *so the comparison might not be fair.*


----------



## LoryWiv

wnbc said:


>


 
 I love myDX90, sounds very musical with IEM's and can even drive my 300 ohm HD600's reasonably well. I also use it as a DAC at times, overall it is a solid performer and a very versatile unit.
  
 That said: When I am seeking more true, critical listening, esp. DSD source but also FLAC, the iDSD is my gold standard. It's DAC is peerless.
  
 Finally, using the DX90 as transport, with it's digital coax. out into iDSD driving my 600 ohm Beyer DT800's, it is a transcendant musical experience.
  
 Just my 2 cents as one who owns and enjoys both DX90 and iDSD.


----------



## EVOLVIST

wnbc said:


> One Head-fier did which is the only reason the DX90 was on my radar.  In the end it boils down to personal preference.  iDSD sounds excellent so no reason for me to explore DAC jumping.  Comparisons between the two are fair if one is using them as a DAC into one's favorite amp.  I take it you have a different opinion as you say the iDSD destroys it SQ-wise.  Curiosity over
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


lorywiv said:


> I love myDX90, sounds very musical with IEM's and can even drive my 300 ohm HD600's reasonably well. I also use it as a DAC at times, overall it is a solid performer and a very versatile unit.
> 
> That said: When I am seeking more true, critical listening, esp. DSD source but also FLAC, the iDSD is my gold standard. It's DAC is peerless.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very curious. I know nothing about alpha primes, except from reviews, but I've heard several sabre based DACs during long listening sessions, and the sabres have always sounded very "too slick," as if they don't fully get out of the digital realm, shellacked, if you will, with a veneer or sheen, which might sound brilliant on IEMs, but not on planars, for sure...except that LoryWiv says the DX90 drives his HD600s.  Could be. But they certainly didn't drive my HD800s...and I shouldn't have expected it to. I found some sibilance in the DX90, as well. 
  
 But every device out there has people on the other end that they are made for.  That's what's so great about this "hobby."
  
 Before I got rid of my DX90, I hooked it up to the stock system in my wife's jeep. Man! It made her stock speakers sound like a few thousand bucks easy! The DX90 was awesome in here car. Not so much in mine. We almost kept the DX90 just for her ride, but she decided against it once she found out what the price tag was. Haha!
  
 Anyway, I'm not saying that the iDSD micro is the end-game DAC for me, but it's pretty close. I'm holding out for the iDSD Pro. We might be talking about end-game after that. We'll see.


----------



## ImperialBlade

For the experienced users...
  
 Preface to my following statement, I am not stirring "the pot" its a question I don't have the answer to. 
  
 I have a neighbor that I am trying to convince to buy the iFi iDSD Micro DSD512. However, he stumped me with the following question:
 "How does the Schiit Magni 2 Uber & Modi 2 Uber sound compared to the iFi DSD Micro?" He went on about saving money, if he went this route as all he wants to do is stream his music the the device(s) to his IEMs/earphones.
  
 I think both are great products but I have no idea on the SQ on one versus the other.
  
 Regards,
 Eric


----------



## diamondears

imperialblade said:


> For the experienced users...
> 
> Preface to my following statement, I am not stirring "the pot" its a question I don't have the answer to.
> 
> ...



If you ask me, it's Fula Schiit...


----------



## ImperialBlade

diamondears said:


> If you ask me, it's Fula Schiit...


 
 LOL...I see we have a vote for the iFi DSD Micro!


----------



## MattTCG

I opened a support ticket yesterday. I am getting all sound with distortion when the pre-amp IC are plugged in. The problem goes away when the cables are unplugged, but...I really need the pre-amp function!! I have not heard anything yet. Hoping to hear something soon.


----------



## tf1216

matttcg said:


> I opened a support ticket yesterday. I am getting all sound with distortion when the pre-amp IC are plugged in. The problem goes away when the cables are unplugged, but...I really need the pre-amp function!! I have not heard anything yet. Hoping to hear something soon.


 
  
 Might we be able to lend you a hand?
  
 What's your setup look like?


----------



## MattTCG

Custom build pc (very quite psu)-LH labs custom usb cable-usb in to micro using the adapter supplied by ifi. I'm using Kimber IC's that I know are of good quality and have never been any trouble.


----------



## tf1216

Using JRiver?  What driver is selected?  What does the headphone out sound like?
  
 Do you have another USB cable you could try?


----------



## MattTCG

yes, jriver and other players also with the same result...distortion. I use both ASIO and waspi depending on the rip.


----------



## john57

MAtt,
  
 You need to provide more information what the IC is connected to. Are you saying that the headphones are good when the RCA's are disconnected?


----------



## tf1216

Headphones sound OK direct out of the iDSD?  Any other USB cables to try?


----------



## technobear

matttcg said:


> I'm using Kimber IC's that I know are of good quality and have never been any trouble.




Have you actually tested these cables with something else? 

This sounds like it could be a broken screen/earth connection causing the cable to act as an aerial.


----------



## MattTCG

These are good cables. I have used them with many other sources and have tested them recently. The cables are connected to a hometheater receiver-Denon. It makes no difference whether the receiver is on or off...I get distortion until I unplug the cables (Kimber). Out of the receiver everything sounds perfect. But directly out of the micro the sound is distorted.


----------



## john57

When you are getting distortion are you getting a hum or buzz? What the inputs on your Denon are you using to connect with the micro?


----------



## MattTCG

CD in put...


----------



## Edric Li

matttcg said:


> CD in put...




cd input from my panasonic SL series CD player works well with idsd. I'm pretty curious about the issue you are experiencing.


----------



## maitokaakao

I’m having some mysterious channel imbalance problem with my iDSD Micro…  I’m all aware that there is slight channel imbalance at very low volume, but this problem is something else. 
   
 About a week ago in a normal music listening session I woke my iMac from sleep, checked the iDSD was on and started listening music. I immediately noticed that the music was not center; right channel was about 20% louder than left channel. Weird. I use the RCA out in direct mode with my speakers. I checked my speakers volume knobs and they were correct. Then I tried the device with my headphones. Same thing, right channel was louder than left. 
  
 Then I thought maybe there is something wrong with my iMac audio setup, but everything was correct so I unplugged the device and tried it with my iPhone / camera adapter cable (without the ifi blue usb cable). Same thing. Right channel was louder than left channel. Then I tried the 3.5mm input with my iPhone and the 3.5mm input worked perfectly; the music was center. So clearly there was something wrong only with the DAC section of the iDSD…? I tried all the possible settings, but no luck, only the 3.5mm input worked properly. I also updated the firmware, but the problem did not go away.

  
 The next day I once again checked that every possible setting was ok, but the channel imbalance persisted… I left the device and went to school. Then at the same day evening I came back, put music on and in the middle of the second song the imbalance suddenly disappeared!! Right in front of my eyes (or ears), so to speak. I was so relieved and hoped it would not happen again.
  
 Well… About one week later, today, it happened again and I’m again trying to figure out what caused the problem and how to get rid of it.
  
 So couple questions:

Has anyone else experienced this kind of problem?
Is there a way to reset the device? Like reset the DAC to factory settings or something?
Is it in any way possible that iMac sleep mode messes up the device? Because both times the problem has occured when my iMac has woken up from sleep mode and the iDSD has been on the whole time. Usually I turn the device of before I put my iMac to sleep and turn it on after I wake up my iMac.
 
  
 I use iTunes with BitPerfect software. iDSD is connected to my iMac using the blue USB cable iFi supplied.
  
 Thank you in advance for any replies. I think I should also contact iFi directly...


----------



## jmsaxon69

matttcg said:


> CD in put...


 I bet it's on a preamp out mode instead of a fixed line level output mode. I think the proper output is Direct and not preamp.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks J...will check as soon as I get home.


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> These are good cables. I have used them with many other sources and have tested them recently. The cables are connected to a hometheater receiver-Denon. It makes no difference whether the receiver is on or off...I get distortion until I unplug the cables (Kimber). Out of the receiver everything sounds perfect. But directly out of the micro the sound is distorted.


 
  
 I am guessing here, but it seems to me there is a huge ground loop issue between your PC and the Denon.


----------



## MattTCG

Good guess, but no...that's not it.


----------



## ClieOS

2Q: First, does it happen to any RCA cable? Second, when using pre-out mode, does it distort regardless of what volume on iDSD micro?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Why would you use pre-out mode at all? It's not feeding an amp, it's a receiver that may or may not have a pre out/main in. It needs to be on fixed output.


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry guys, just got home. The "direct" settings seems to be the fix. I'll test it over the next day or so but it seems to have done the trick.


----------



## jmsaxon69

matttcg said:


> Sorry guys, just got home. The "direct" settings seems to be the fix. I'll test it over the next day or so but it seems to have done the trick.


 

 Yes, always think about what you are doing with the product in hand. Direct out is just that and premap out (even though that is what you are hooking it to) is if you want to go straight into an actual amp.


----------



## Dobrescu George

anyone used idsd micro with lcd3 or hd800? i am curious if it is enough to power either, i had read some pages ago, but the answers were so and so, i am curious if anyone fiinds idsd micro enough for lcd 3 or hd800.


----------



## ClieOS

jmsaxon69 said:


> Yes, always think about what you are doing with the product in hand. Direct out is just that and premap out (even though that is what you are hooking it to) is if you want to go straight into an actual amp.


 
  
 It has nothing to do with which to feed into the receiver, as either will work since receiver has its own amp section as well. You can certainly use a receiver as an amp and some actually do have quite decent one inside. The problem is with clipping.


----------



## WNBC

I use the iDSD Micro with the HD800 everyday.  It has more than enough power for the HD800 in normal mode.  For my tastes, I enjoy the combo a lot.  I know some people want more body from the HD800 and that can be had with a different flavor of amp.
  
 I am going to get a separate amp at some point but I feel perfectly content with just the onboard amp for now.  I have used the HD800 before with other DACs and amps like the Decware CSP3/Taboo, V200, Bottlehead Crack + SP, vintage receivers, etc.  I am sure that I'll be able to squeeze more body out of the HD800 with another amp, but you'll fine if you start off with the iDSD + HD800 and then add the amp later.  I am currently thinking about amps like the April Music Stello HP100 MKII, Lyr2, Pioneer SX-737, iFi iCan, something from Garage 1217, or holding out for new products coming from iFi.  
  
  
 Quote:


dobrescu george said:


> anyone used idsd micro with lcd3 or hd800? i am curious if it is enough to power either, i had read some pages ago, but the answers were so and so, i am curious if anyone fiinds idsd micro enough for lcd 3 or hd800.


----------



## iFi audio

dobrescu george said:


> anyone used idsd micro with lcd3 or hd800? i am curious if it is enough to power either, i had read some pages ago, but the answers were so and so, i am curious if anyone fiinds idsd micro enough for lcd 3 or hd800.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 This should give you an idea of the micro iDSD's power capabilities.
  
 Here you go:
  

  
 You all know the HE-6. Yes, it needs to go to almost full volume with well-recorded audiphile music but there isnt much out there that can drive the HE-6 on battery power.


----------



## Dobrescu George

this is pretty reasurring. 
  
 one other thing that really bothers me is if idsd micro does a better job at driving hd800 than hugo. sadly, i only tested hugo, and it did a normal job, not great, not bad, it felt like there was not enough power...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Im impressed with the amp in the iDSD, I hooked the Direct out to my Asgard 2 and it wasn't as good, I was kind of surprised. Maybe just not a good match?


----------



## ClieOS

jmsaxon69 said:


> OMG really? There is an amp in a receiver? I guess with me using terms like preout and main in you'd reaize I know exactly what I am talking about. You don't hookup a preamp out of a product to a line level input. You'd hook it up to the main in. Is it possible to have the volume low enough to not clip he input, maybe, I wasn't there to test that. I told him the proper way to set the iDSD to work with his configuration, something you did not do, so why are you acting like I'm clueless Mr. "Let me solve your problem"? Thanks for helping out....


 
  
 Sorry if you feel offended. I am just more interested in actually helping him to get to the bottom of his problem then telling him what is the 'proper' way of connecting thing together. Lucky however it does seem the 'proper' way does the tick this time, so all the power to you.


----------



## citraian

dobrescu george said:


> this is pretty reasurring.
> 
> one other thing that really bothers me is if idsd micro does a better job at driving hd800 than hugo. sadly, i only tested hugo, and it did a normal job, not great, not bad, it felt like there was not enough power...


 
 Here is your answer: http://headmania.org/2015/02/07/ifi-idsd-micro-review/


----------



## maricius

jmsaxon69 said:


> Im impressed with the amp in the iDSD, I hooked the Direct out to my Asgard 2 and it wasn't as good, I was kind of surprised. Maybe just not a good match?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/840#post_10873617
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/2130#post_11197544
  
 Some like it more. Some like it less. It may be synergy. It may be preference. Trust your ears.


----------



## Dobrescu George

citraian said:


> Here is your answer: http://headmania.org/2015/02/07/ifi-idsd-micro-review/


 
 thanks! i will read it all!


----------



## wdh777

How do you think tis compares to a centrance M8? thanks


----------



## plakat

matttcg said:


> I opened a support ticket yesterday. I am getting all sound with distortion when the pre-amp IC are plugged in. The problem goes away when the cables are unplugged, but...I really need the pre-amp function!! I have not heard anything yet. Hoping to hear something soon.


 

 If I interpret the short ifi manual correctly you get +9dB (i.e. much more than normal RCA line-level 0dB) if you switch to pre-amp mode with power mode set to Normal or Turbo.
 If you want to go through the CD input I'd switch to Direct. If you want to use the iDSD as a pre-amp, use output = pre-amp and power = Eco.


----------



## iFi audio

plakat said:


> If I interpret the short ifi manual correctly you get +9dB (i.e. much more than normal RCA line-level 0dB) if you switch to pre-amp mode with power mode set to Normal or Turbo.
> If you want to go through the CD input I'd switch to Direct. If you want to use the iDSD as a pre-amp, use output = pre-amp and power = Eco.


 
  
 Hi.
  
 Correct.
  
 Always start with Eco = normal 2.0v output.
  
 Normal/Turbo = 5.0v output.
  

Controls (bottom)  - Line Direct/PreamplifierPreamplifier function Enable/Disable, 0/9dB gain selectableFixed 2V or variable with up to 5V available
  
 The high signal may be overloading components downstream.
  
 Like using iEMs, always start Eco and Ultra-Sensitivity. Then increase power switch and reduce the iEMatch.
  
 Not recmmended to start the other way around.


----------



## natra084

Hi I just received my idsd Micro but 3d and x-bass doesn't seem to work or do you have to push some buttons or something.


----------



## Jbgoth

I received my Micro a couple days ago. Surprised how bright it is, and I love my treble. I'm using my Grado PS500e which aren't as bright as other Grados. I actually wanted to lighten them up some! My source is an iPhone 6+. 

Is there a burn in with this amp?


----------



## natra084

sorry guys it does work but it is subtle.


----------



## EVOLVIST

natra084 said:


> Hi I just received my idsd Micro but 3d and x-bass doesn't seem to work or do you have to push some buttons or something.


 
  
 Are you plugging your cans in directly into the iDSD micro?


----------



## MattTCG

natra084 said:


> sorry guys it does work but it is subtle.


Yes its subtle which is a good thing.


----------



## natra084

matttcg said:


> Yes its subtle which is a good thing.



no it is a great thing


----------



## EVOLVIST

jbgoth said:


> I received my Micro a couple days ago. Surprised how bright it is, and I love my treble. I'm using my Grado PS500e which aren't as bright as other Grados. I actually wanted to lighten them up some! My source is an iPhone 6+.
> 
> Is there a burn in with this amp?


 
  
 About 200 hrs recommended. I did about 400 hrs when I first got mine, but really around the 250 hr mark, I no longer heard a change. Yes, as an owner of HD800s, the iDSD micro started off sounding a little pinched, but then it opened up to be just on the plus-side of warm (yet very detailed).


----------



## Jbgoth

evolvist said:


> About 200 hrs recommended. I did about 400 hrs when I first got mine, but really around the 250 hr mark, I no longer heard a change. Yes, as an owner of HD800s, the iDSD micro started off sounding a little pinched, but then it opened up to just on the plus side warm (yet very detailed).




Wonderful! I've got it running now with my iPod on shuffle. I'm pretty new here, so I'm trying to use the correct sound definitions. 

Thanks for the reply!


----------



## plakat

There is another thing... the manual says this about battery run time:
    Eco = for high-sensitivity IEMs (Default, ~12 hours). 
 Normal = for medium-sensitivity headphones (~19 hours). 
 Turbo = for the most-demanding headphones (~6 hours).
  
 Is it correct that Eco lasts not as long as Normal? If that is the case... does Eco run in class A? Or is there an other reason why it uses more battery? Maybe @iFi audio can comment on that. Your active presence is is more than welcome btw, thanks a lot.


----------



## technobear

Has the manual been changed?

Mine says 14, 11 and 6.

I suspect 19 is a misprint and it should be 9.


----------



## technobear

OK, I just dug out the paper version and that also says 14, 10, 6 so I guess it has been updated since.

I still think 19 is probably a misprint.


----------



## iFi audio

plakat said:


> There is another thing... the manual says this about battery run time:
> Eco = for high-sensitivity IEMs (Default, ~12 hours).
> Normal = for medium-sensitivity headphones (~19 hours).
> Turbo = for the most-demanding headphones (~6 hours).
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Misprint.
  
 Eco = for high-sensitivity IEMs (Default, ~12 hours).
  
 Normal = for medium-sensitivity headphones (~9 hours).
  
 Turbo = for the most-demanding headphones (~6 hours).
  
 Apologies for the misprint. These are only guides because it will vary quite a lot depending upon the actual headphone used.
  
 We can say for certain the HiFi Man on Turbo is 6-7 hours as we do it at shows.


----------



## Jbgoth

I was running the Micro with my iPhone through my Audioengine speakers with the RCA jacks for less than 2 hours, and the Micro got very hot! Is this normal?

I searched the thread about this issue and couldn't find the answer. Thanks!!


----------



## technobear

jbgoth said:


> I was running the Micro with my iPhone through my Audioengine speakers with the RCA jacks for less than 2 hours, and the Micro got very hot! Is this normal?
> 
> I searched the thread about this issue and couldn't find the answer. Thanks!!




Are you using 'Eco' mode?

You should be.

If you are then dunno. Mine doesn't get hot.


----------



## Edric Li

ifi audio said:


> edric li said:
> 
> 
> > There's one thing I have concern on. Since I always put my idsd vertically in my pocket and the side of headphone plug to the top, the side with the cable will have to sit in my pocket. It is not good to put the device on a fragile piece of cable, and it might hurt the USB male connector inside the device.
> ...


 
  
 Now I have an idea. Is there a lightning cable that looks like this, but the USB-A plug is female? I guess that will solve my problem with ease.


----------



## Jbgoth

Thanks.! That's exactly what the problem was. Talk about burning in a unit (not in a good way).


----------



## plakat

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Misprint.
> 
> ...


 

 No problem at all -- was just wondering if there is intention behind that... the PDF at http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/manual/micro%20iDSD%20Manual.pdf still shows the wrong numbers btw.
  
 Mentioning the Hifiman... I could not resist to try my Abyss. Normal mode is enough for my needs. Impressive.


----------



## Dobrescu George

is turbo needed for hd800?..
  
 anyone managed to drive LCD-3 to full potential, even with turbo engaged?


----------



## MattTCG

I think that the amp section is better than I was expecting. The lcd2.2 and hd800 are sounding pretty nice tbh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 lcd2.2=turbo no xbass yes 3d
  
 hd800=nomal yes xbass no 3d
  
 hd650=normal plus first click on iem match yes xbass no 3d


----------



## the-kraken

I listened to lcd-x/2/3 on a quick 30 min demo with the ifi running via turbo mode... didn't have any issues driving 'em (though, admittedly, that was a short demo). I'll head back to that dealer in the next week or two when they get the el8 in, and do a more intense demo with said cans.


----------



## EVOLVIST

dobrescu george said:


> is turbo needed for hd800?..
> 
> anyone managed to drive LCD-3 to full potential, even with turbo engaged?




Normal mode will drive the HD800s quite well. Turbo mode will fire your earholes straight out of your poophole, if you're not careful.

Take your pick.


----------



## Hubert481

I noticed some hiss flag using Bit-_Perfect_ Processing like it was hearable using the older DBX noise reduction system. Does anyone else hear this noise. Crosscheck with two other dacs from audiolab and dragonfly did not have this phenomenon.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

Well, I had a chance to listen to the iDSD Micro for several hour for several days along with other amps (multiple Fiio ones, ADL X1, Chord Hugo, ALO Audio, Burutta), and since I always appreciate everyone's impressions, I thought I would post my own to share.  Disclaimer: This is in no way an "expert review" nor is it written in "formal review" format.  These are just my own personal impressions, so others may easily disagree.  No flaming or insults please; if you disagree, just don't take my impressions into your account.  Also, I listened to the various amps with no personal bias (not even taking into account company reputation, service quality, etc.); just pure audio listening quality & pleasure.
  
 I also want to mention, I have nothing against iFI and I was actually quite excited to check out this amp.... so again, please do not think anything negative I say is meant to flame their products at all.
  
 Note: I do not believe in "burn-in" for electrial components, only for mechanically moving parts (i.e. headphones have moving parts, engines/gears are moving parts).  Electrical burn-in for me would be like saying computers run faster/better after a few hundred hours than they were when originally purchased/made.  Others may disagree, but to my ears, I have not once ever noticed amps changing after long-term use (unless it was just my ears getting used to the amp).  Headphones, I kind of can hear the difference, but no facts to back it up.
  
  
*My Own Personal Positive for iDSD Micro*
 - Defintely drives with power & authority.  I had never once gotten the impression that it was lacking in power.
  
 In contrast, some of the Fiio amps that have multi-hundred mW output ratings didn't feel like they were actually driving with that kind of authority.  The Hugo and ALO Audio amps drove fine, but I would say the iDSD Micro just had that authoritative "power" feel.
  
 - Sound is very clear and definitely puts the audio/sound "in your face" as another poster had commented.
  
 Everything can be very clearly heard, none of the distortion or muddiness that one may hear with not so well designed or lower powered amps.  I also can understand what another poster meant by when mentioning the iDSD puts the singer/music on a stage right in front of you while the Hugo is like having the sounds around you and more laid back.
  
  
*My Own Personal Negatives for iDSD Micro*
 - Sounds harsh (artificial?) to my ears.  It's like the driving with power & authority also accentuates the "..ss" sound at the end of words that end in "s" for example.  Although having those ending sounds/echos/timbres/etc. adds to the feeling of liveness and spaciousness usually, in the iDSD Micro's case, it sounds overpowerful.  At the same time, the bass was not as accentuated/powerful as some of the other ams such as ALO Audio or Hugo.
  
 I must say, I finally understand what the other poster who mentioned "Chord Hugo's sound is smooth" meant.  With the Hugo, I could listen for hours and hours (3~4) straight without my ears getting tired.  However, with the iDSD Micro, I could only stand it for less than an hour.  My opinion is that silver cables or Oyaide's signature cables will probably make the feeling worse, as I had to make a trip back to the house to quickly swap cables after 10 mins. outside, even though in the frst 5 mins. I was thinking i could just bear it through the trip until I got home again.
  
 What I ended up doing for most of the listening after the excitement of checking out the new amp wore off was to turn down the volume to low monitoring level so I can hear the song being played, and when I heard a song in my playlist that I liked, turn up the volume just for that song. It is unfortunate and strange, but this is the only amp I have ever had to do that.  Even with the lower priced amps such as the Fiio ones, my ears did not get tired... even though the quality of the audio may not have been that great per se.
  
 I think that the fact I was using headphones which produce very detailed sounds (i.e. Ultrasone types for example) - note that I said detailed, not neutral - is why I could sense the discomfort of the sound.  I don't know how to explain in words, but the sound was just so artificial like.... like artificially enhancing the audio without actually enhancing it.  Or, another analogy, running the audio through a DSP without the effects processing....   Perhaps with headphones that are smoother and/or do not reveal so many details by nature, the amp would not sound so discomforting.  Also, perhaps the music genre may be a factor.  Most of the music I listened to during the trial run was recent pop & hip hop.  I suppose oldies or classical may give a different perception (i.e. oldies' sound/recording may sound "cleaned up & modernized up-quality" with the kind of sound output iDSD gives, etc.)
  
  
 - Terrible channel imbalance when utilizing the DAC+internal amp mode.  I had to turn volume up quite loud for the imbalance to even out.  Therefore, most of my time was spent using the 3.5mm input.
  
  
 I must say that I was very disappointed in the iDSD Micro and would prefer listening with even the Fiio amps over the iDSD Micro.
  
  
 Now, with all of the above in mind, I want to mention that I do not *think* the iDSD unit was faulty, because there were no weird sounds/dropouts or any other indications of a faulty unit.  Everything seemed to sound fine... just that the quality and signature was not something I was able to enjoy.
  
 My order of favorites if price was not a concern would be
 1. Hugo
 2. ALO Audio
 3. ADL X1
 4. Fiio
 5. iDSD Micro
  
 If looking at similar price range, it would be
 1. ALO Audio (actually, this is still more expensive than the iDSD Micro)
 2. iDSD Micro
  
  
  
 Sorry if this appears as flame bait, as that is not my intention at all.  (I was actually originally exciteid about the iDSD unit.)  However, if my impressions help anyone take another perspective/angle into consideration, then I am glad.  And, as usual, I am always grateful that others are posting their impressions, as those definitely are helpful for me too.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

hubert481 said:


> I noticed some hiss flag using Bit-_Perfect_ Processing like it was hearable using the older DBX noise reduction system. Does anyone else hear this noise. Crosscheck with two other dacs from audiolab and dragonfly did not have this phenomenon.


 
  
  
 How did it sound with the other modes?


----------



## earfonia

hookedonaudio said:


> *My Own Personal Positive for iDSD Micro*
> - Defintely drives with power & authority.  I had never once gotten the impression that it was lacking in power.
> 
> In contrast, some of the Fiio amps that have multi-hundred mW output ratings didn't feel like they were actually driving with that kind of authority.  The Hugo and ALO Audio amps drove fine, but I would say the iDSD Micro just had that authoritative "power" feel.
> ...


 
  
 Your assessment is mainly on the headphone output of the ifi micro iDSD right?
 Have you tried to use the line output and connect it to a decent headphone amplifier?
  
 I have more or less the same opinion, and micro iDSD headphone output is not among my favorite. But I do really like the line output, and feel that quality of the line output is simply excellent, beyond its price category. I treat micro iDSD headphone output as a bonus feature, and mainly use it as pure DAC.


----------



## the-kraken

[deleted]


----------



## WNBC

I think most people, self-included, have a slight channel imbalance at low volume.  Mine goes away by 9pm on the dial.  I would argue your unit might be faulty.  Channel imbalance might really be affecting your enjoyment.
  
 As for the smoothness vs harsh, I have not heard the Ultrasones.  I am using a Anax mod HD800 and Aurisonics Rockets with it most of the time and it is far from harsh.  I have also used it with a PS1000 and PS500.  Really nice combo and not harsh or artificial.  I don't listen to much pop, but when I have done so, I have stumbled upon tracks that just don't sound good but likely due to the mixing and recording.  Let us know of your opinion with other types of tracks.
  
  
  
 Quote:


hookedonaudio said:


> Terrible channel imbalance when utilizing the DAC+internal amp mode.  I had to turn volume up quite loud for the imbalance to even out.  Therefore, most of my time was spent using the 3.5mm input.
> 
> Now, with all of the above in mind, I want to mention that I do not *think* the iDSD unit was faulty, because there were no weird sounds/dropouts or any other indications of a faulty unit.  Everything seemed to sound fine... just that the quality and signature was not something I was able to enjoy.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

evolvist said:


> It's a different company, really. Though both are based in the UK, one of them reads "Hugo" on the box, while the other reads "iFi." Moreover, the iDSD micro uses a more standard burr-brown DAC chip configuration, where I don't believe they consulted the people over at Chord to see if that was okay. In fact, I'm pretty sure their designers and engineers are different people, though there is a good possibility they are all rather smart, at least sharing human genomes and basic structural DNA.
> 
> Otherwise they are quite similar products. From what I've been told, the IDSD micro shares a similar sonic signature to the Chord Hugo, but the Chord Hugo cannot decode all of the files that the iDSD micro can.
> 
> By my watch, it is probably time you get an iDSD micro. Or, you might spend too much on a Hugo. Or, you might wait for the desktop model from iFi, the iDSD Pro, which will surely put an end to the debate between the Hugo and the iDSD...at least as far as SQ, if the iDSD micro's superb sound is anything to go by.


 
  
 Actually, I would have to respectfully disagree with the statement that the Hugo and iDSD Micro share the same sound signature.  Not understanding the difference in sound when reading another poster's comments of Hugo sounds smooth and laid back whereas iDSD Micro puts you in the front seat, I finally understood it after listening to the two myself.  The sound signature is quite different.  (I suppose the smoothness in the Hugo is from the 26,000+ taps(?) the company seems to like to advertise and appeal with...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)  I think which you like will depend on your personal listening preferences and other audio gear that will be hooked up.  They do sound different, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now, if you are only comparing the DAC components and not the amp at all, then I cannot comment as I have always used the built-in amps; never just the DAC by themselves.


----------



## ClieOS

hubert481 said:


> I noticed some hiss flag using Bit-_Perfect_ Processing like it was hearable using the older DBX noise reduction system. Does anyone else hear this noise. Crosscheck with two other dacs from audiolab and dragonfly did not have this phenomenon.


 
  
 That's normal with Bit Perfect filter - actually, it is not a _filter _at all. Bit Perfect is essentially NOS (Non Over Sampling) and one thing that defines a NOS is it doesn't uses a low pass filter to cutout anything above 20kHz, so it is perfectly normal it sounds a bit more hissy when compared to other filters (which does have low pass filter of their own). The idea is that it uses the human's hearing limitation as a 'natural filter' where the non-oversampling process gives a sound that is more 'analog' and life like
  
 The filter in AudioLab and dragonfly are probably something similar to either 'standard' or 'minimum phase' filter on iDSD micro (as these two are commonly found on most DAC), where both should be quieter than bit perfect. So it really isn't a direct comparison for iDSD's Bit Perfect to other DAC's filter unless they are also employing NOS design.
  


hookedonaudio said:


> ... - Sounds harsh (artificial?) to my ears.  It's like the driving with power & authority also accentuates the "..ss" sound at the end of words that end in "s" for example.  Although having those ending sounds/echos/timbres/etc. adds to the feeling of liveness and spaciousness usually, in the iDSD Micro's case, it sounds overpowerful.  At the same time, the bass was not as accentuated/powerful as some of the other ams such as ALO Audio or Hugo.
> 
> ... - Terrible channel imbalance when utilizing the DAC+internal amp mode.  I had to turn volume up quite loud for the imbalance to even out.  Therefore, most of my time was spent using the 3.5mm input.


 
  
 I think the few things that come to my mind are:
 (1) You didn't mention a source, so are you using it as amp only or DAC/amp with a digital source? If it is the latter, have you tried all the different filter options? Do they all sound harsh to you? If you are using iDSD micro as an amp only, then I can understand why you find it harsh as the internal amp does sounds a bit lean and bight to me as well, but it is nicely balanced by the DAC section when used together. Using iDSD micro as purely an amp will be a big waste IMO as they are indeed better sounding portable amp for lesser price. But DAC+amp together, I do find it hard to beat.
  
 (2) If you feel there is a lot of channel imbalance, I'll think you probably have either the Power Mode or IEMatch (or both) set too high (unless of course your headphone is very sensitive).
  
 (3) ALO makes quite a few amp/DAC, which one do you refer to?


----------



## ClieOS

hookedonaudio said:


> ...  (I suppose the smoothness in the Hugo is from the 26,000+ taps(?)


 
  
 It is probably from its R-2R topology. R-2R DAC are famous for having an analog and smooth sound.


----------



## semeniub

hookedonaudio said:


> Well, I had a chance to listen to the iDSD Micro for several hour for several days along with other amps (multiple Fiio ones, ADL X1, Chord Hugo, ALO Audio, Burutta), and since I always appreciate everyone's impressions, I thought I would post my own to share.  Disclaimer: This is in no way an "expert review" nor is it written in "formal review" format.  These are just my own personal impressions, so others may easily disagree.  No flaming or insults please; if you disagree, just don't take my impressions into your account.  Also, I listened to the various amps with no personal bias (not even taking into account company reputation, service quality, etc.); just pure audio listening quality & pleasure.
> 
> I also want to mention, I have nothing against iFI and I was actually quite excited to check out this amp.... so again, please do not think anything negative I say is meant to flame their products at all.
> 
> ...


 

 So which of these have you actually spent your own $$$ on? Most people look for value for money when spending there own $$$, so I tend to look for ratings based on actual purchase decisions rather than a few limited listening sessions. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## kugino

i like the micro a lot. but one negative i agree on is the channel imbalance. i understand that imbalance occurs for most amps...but it happens at much too high a volume in the micro, IMHO. other than that, i think the micro, for the money, is quite good.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

hubert481 said:


> Perhaps ifi audio can tell me anything if the pop from turning on and off can be solved by an firmware update.
> Are some units brocken, or does really every unit have this "feature"?


 
  
 I think many amps have a slight click when turning on and off (I remember I was surprised when I tried out my very first amp a while back because your standard run of the mill iphone, portable player, etc. from the big companies don't make that kind of noise), so I don't think your unit would be broken.  When I tried the iDSD Micro myself, I noticed the click was the loudest of all amps that i have heard before, though... the trick I ended using was to turn on the unit before plugging in headphones, and unplugging headphones before turning off the unit.  The only amp I have come across that was absolutely silent when turning on/off was the Hugo.  Kind of surprising. yeah, I know.... your cheap ol' music players like the ipod even are quiet, but many expesnive dedicated amps are not.  Just like my dissatisfaction with channel imbalance,... why regular cheap ol' players by the big companies work so fine, but all these audiophile-targeted units have that little bit of channel imbalance and so on... but I'm digressing here...


----------



## technobear

One of the great things about burn-in is that it is consistent.

If you believe in burn-in of electronics, it takes 200 hours.

If you don't believe in burn-in of electronics, it still takes 200 hours.


----------



## Hubert481

Meanwhile i know that my idsd was not broken (crosscheck with 2 other units)
 Using IEMatch, i had the feeling, that the fabulous sound was gone. (for my ears)
 So using a headphone which is okay for eco modus (without IEMatch) and volume 12-3  - it might be great with fabulous sound.
 With my headphones, i prefered to give it back. (TH900,K812,QC25)
 (The ifi support was excellent during testing - 5 stars)


----------



## jmsaxon69

technobear said:


> One of the great things about burn-in is that it is consistent.
> 
> If you believe in burn-in of electronics, it takes 200 hours.
> 
> If you don't believe in burn-in of electronics, it still takes 200 hours.


 

 I like you


----------



## plakat

technobear said:


> One of the great things about burn-in is that it is consistent.
> 
> If you believe in burn-in of electronics, it takes 200 hours.
> 
> If you don't believe in burn-in of electronics, it still takes 200 hours.


 

 to what? get over buyers remorse if the sound signature does not fit? get used to it?
 Man, am I happy that I'm not a believer and don't have to wait that long to enjoy a new toy...


----------



## Dobrescu George

you do realise that if the burn in effect is real, it would take around 50 days in normal usage, and this means that after two months, the sound of a new toy should change?...
  
 it would be bad, specially if you loved the signature out of the box.
  
 also, playing continous, would mean 10 days, which is above most getting money back if you don't like laws...
  
  
 about idsd micr, i did not knew that it had a channel imbalance. it would be great to give even more details from my ultrasones!


----------



## BillsonChang007

kugino said:


> i like the micro a lot. but one negative i agree on is the channel imbalance. i understand that imbalance occurs for most amps...but it happens at much too high a volume in the micro, IMHO. other than that, i think the micro, for the money, is quite good.


 
 indeed. I am guessing its because of the high output power?


----------



## HookedOnAudio

earfonia said:


> Your assessment is mainly on the headphone output of the ifi micro iDSD right?
> Have you tried to use the line output and connect it to a decent headphone amplifier?
> 
> I have more or less the same opinion, and micro iDSD headphone output is not among my favorite. But I do really like the line output, and feel that quality of the line output is simply excellent, beyond its price category. I treat micro iDSD headphone output as a bonus feature, and mainly use it as pure DAC.


 
  
 Hi, and thank you very much for your feedback.  Your comments have given me some education too.  Yes, I am mostly focused on portable gear for the headphones, so I wanted to be able to use the DAC+amp or amp only (depending on the source I have connected at the time) usage model.  My trial was completely with only the headphone output.  In fact, the caps on the RCA jacks have never even been taken off yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I may give the line out a try just to hear the difference, but I am already considering selling this unit.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 Well, I did actually listen to one song which was of disco / older recording after making the post, and I would say the iDSD Micro definitely gave it more life.  I cannot say if this will be true for all songs of the genre or not as it's only one song, but there is a possibility and hope.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

clieos said:


> It is probably from its R-2R topology. R-2R DAC are famous for having an analog and smooth sound.


 

 Thanks for taking the time to comment!  I just learned something new again.  I will have to go do some research on that.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

semeniub said:


> So which of these have you actually spent your own $$$ on? Most people look for value for money when spending there own $$$, so I tend to look for ratings based on actual purchase decisions rather than a few limited listening sessions. Just my 2 cents.


 
  
 You know, I typically do not like to focus on what I own and don't own or what others own and don't own.  Impressions are impressions, and I appreciate them as such.  I take them with a grain of salt and a lot of gratitude.  However, if you insist, I own all the amps I mentioned in the post for this trial period.  The listening and comparing was something done over the past month, and I have used the iDSD Micro for about 20 hours.  The others, at least hundreds of hours.  I know money/value is also important, and that is why I wrote my ranking with 2 categories, one with money as no concern (focus purely on the amp in terms of enjoyment and/or quality), and one where if I had to pick within the same budget range.
  
 If you further insist I put my money where my mouth is (yes, I know you didn't say that, but allow me to play around here since I am in the playful mood right now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), even though I did not plan to announce it public, I am actually considering selling the iDSD Micro (as well as ADL X1 and Ultrasone Performane P880), as these 3 items will not be seeing much use by me at the time.  I want to keep the Fiios because they are great for those times when I want light and small and am not hungering for super high quality, or those times where I may go somewhere where .... how should I say ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the gear is likely to spring feet and walk off on its own.  As for the Burutta, it's just plain fun.  Not very high clarity and by all means far from something being considered high def / high audio qualilty, BUT, it is just plain fun for those times when one's in the mood.


----------



## semeniub

hookedonaudio said:


> You know, I typically do not like to focus on what I own and don't own or what others own and don't own.  Impressions are impressions, and I appreciate them as such.  I take them with a grain of salt and a lot of gratitude.  However, if you insist, I own all the amps I mentioned in the post for this trial period.  The listening and comparing was something done over the past month, and I have used the iDSD Micro for about 20 hours.  The others, at least hundreds of hours.  I know money/value is also important, and that is why I wrote my ranking with 2 categories, one with money as no concern (focus purely on the amp in terms of enjoyment and/or quality), and one where if I had to pick within the same budget range.
> 
> If you further insist I put my money where my mouth is (yes, I know you didn't say that, but allow me to play around here since I am in the playful mood right now
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the disclosure, I think everyone appreciates that, and it gives greater meaning to your comments in the thread.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

dobrescu george said:


> you do realise that if the burn in effect is real, it would take around 50 days in normal usage, and this means that after two months, the sound of a new toy should change?...
> 
> it would be bad, specially if you loved the signature out of the box.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, my own personal opinion is that electronics usually will only wear out with burn-in (coils/wires/etc) if any changes occur (of course there are exceptions and so on), but I don't want to get into the debate of burn-in vs. non-burn-in.  Everyone has their own beliefs and "supposed hearing experiences" (same goes for me too, yes I know)...so I think it's not very productive to debate this one.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 If you get a chance to try with your Ultrasones, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts too regarding the details and harshness, as well as if you experience fatigue after straight listening for some time or not.  I didn't feel like it was the amp providing a lot of details (although certainly it had a high level of clarity in the music/sounds it ouputted, and sounds were quite clear and authoritative sounding) but rather the details which the Ultrasones could reveal ends up revealing the over-clarity / over-harshness?  It just sounded like it went over and created artificial live/clarity?  I really don't know how to describe with words.. I can only hear and feel.  It's kind of  like the sound is *clearer and livelier than* if the singer/instruments *were actually* playing & singing live in front me..
  
 Of course, at the end of the day, these all depend on the ears and person listening, since everyone has different tastes are and used to different sounds.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I suppose a theoretical explanation of the reason for listening fatigue most noticeable with the iDSD Micro could be its overaccentuation of the ultrasonic (higher frequencies which are normally not really heard but play an important part in creating spaciousness, depth, liveliness, and other perceptual type effects, but also contribute to quicker listening fatigue, especially if too much or not done correctly) portion?  I cannot say, though, because I don't know the actual circuit and specs the iDSD Micro employs.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

clieos said:


> That's normal with Bit Perfect filter - actually, it is not a _filter _at all. Bit Perfect is essentially NOS (Non Over Sampling) and one thing that defines a NOS is it doesn't uses a low pass filter to cutout anything above 20kHz, so it is perfectly normal it sounds a bit more hissy when compared to other filters (which does have low pass filter of their own). The idea is that it uses the human's hearing limitation as a 'natural filter' where the non-oversampling process gives a sound that is more 'analog' and life like
> 
> The filter in AudioLab and dragonfly are probably something similar to either 'standard' or 'minimum phase' filter on iDSD micro (as these two are commonly found on most DAC), where both should be quieter than bit perfect. So it really isn't a direct comparison for iDSD's Bit Perfect to other DAC's filter unless they are also employing NOS design.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi, thank you taking the time to comment!  I had used the DAC+amp early in the trial with all 3 filter options (I liked bit-perfect the best), but after experimenting some, I switched to 3.5 mm input because I didn't like the fact that i had to turn up the volume to remove the channel imbalance.  The volume was not painful, but it was higher than any other amp I've ever used ... it is actually about the same volume that I would probably normally listen at in a somewhat quiet room, especially because as you know, when using DAC, the source is feeding into the DAC at max output level, so it doesn't require that high of a turn on the volume knob.
  
 For power mode, I have tried with all 3 power modes so I could hear the various differences, and ended up doing most of the listening in Normal mode with IEM match off.
  
 For ALO product, this time I was listening with the Rx Mk3 B+.


----------



## earfonia

hookedonaudio said:


> Hi, and thank you very much for your feedback.  Your comments have given me some education too.  Yes, I am mostly focused on portable gear for the headphones, so I wanted to be able to use the DAC+amp or amp only (depending on the source I have connected at the time) usage model.  My trial was completely with only the headphone output.  In fact, the caps on the RCA jacks have never even been taken off yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did some comparison with Audio-Technical flagship DAC+Headphone Amp ($ 6k) here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/749555/sneak-peek-of-audio-technica-at-ha5050h-pre-production-unit#post_11195247
 I was really surprised of how similar the DAC sound quality of ifi micro iDSD with the AT-HA5050H.
  
 If you plan to have a good DAC in the future, ifi micro iDSD is definitely one of the best for the money.


----------



## tf1216

hookedonaudio said:


> I think many amps have a slight click when turning on and off (I remember I was surprised when I tried out my very first amp a while back because your standard run of the mill iphone, portable player, etc. from the big companies don't make that kind of noise), so I don't think your unit would be broken.  When I tried the iDSD Micro myself, I noticed the click was the loudest of all amps that i have heard before, though... the trick I ended using was to turn on the unit before plugging in headphones, and unplugging headphones before turning off the unit.  The only amp I have come across that was absolutely silent when turning on/off was the Hugo.  Kind of surprising. yeah, I know.... your cheap ol' music players like the ipod even are quiet, but many expesnive dedicated amps are not.  Just like my dissatisfaction with channel imbalance,... why regular cheap ol' players by the big companies work so fine, but all these audiophile-targeted units have that little bit of channel imbalance and so on... but I'm digressing here...


 
  
 Did you have any issues with the Chord Hugo's volume setting when turning the player on?  A couple of times when I was using the Chord Hugo I didn't turn down the volume before playing music and it hurt my ears.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

tf1216 said:


> Did you have any issues with the Chord Hugo's volume setting when turning the player on?  A couple of times when I was using the Chord Hugo I didn't turn down the volume before playing music and it hurt my ears.


 
  
 Yes, this one I am well experienced in because it happened to me early on too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It appears that every time you turn on the power, the volume is reset to max level.  So, I have consciously made it a habit to always turn down the volume before switching modes or starting the audio stream.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

earfonia said:


> I did some comparison with Audio-Technical flagship DAC+Headphone Amp ($ 6k) here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/749555/sneak-peek-of-audio-technica-at-ha5050h-pre-production-unit#post_11195247
> I was really surprised of how similar the DAC sound quality of ifi micro iDSD with the AT-HA5050H.
> 
> If you plan to have a good DAC in the future, ifi micro iDSD is definitely one of the best for the money.


 
  
 Thank you.  I will keep this mind.  I might try out the RCA outputs and see if the channel imbalance is still there or not.


----------



## earfonia

hookedonaudio said:


> Thank you.  I will keep this mind.  I might try out the RCA outputs and see if the channel imbalance is still there or not.




When using line out, switch the switch located at the bottom, to Direct. That way the line output bypasses the volume control, and use the volume control of the external amplifier.


----------



## tf1216

hookedonaudio said:


> Yes, this one I am well experienced in because it happened to me early on too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bummer.  The Hugo is definitely a winner though.  
  
 Hold onto that iDSD for a little while longer.  It gets better!  And if your ears still don't prefer its sound then you owe it to yourself to try the iTube and iCan with the iDSD.  The level of sound from this iFi Stack is other-worldly.  It will most definitely change your mind about where the iFi gear falls in your rankings.  Trust me


----------



## iFi audio

hookedonaudio said:


> For power mode, I have tried with all 3 power modes so I could hear the various differences, and ended up doing most of the listening in Normal mode with IEM match off.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Our only small bit bit of input is that the way to setup the Analogue Volume Control is to have it working on 12 > 3 o clock. (so alter the Power + iematch so that your listening level is 12 > 3 o clock).
  
 Anything around the 9 o clock level will always get a channel imbalance - this is the nature of analogue volume controls and is also where the volume is most restricted. So the micro iDSD is least impressive around this level.
   
When we use the HE-6, with Turbo and iematch off, we crank it to 4-6 o clock. Also, if set to off, the iematch are out of circuit so it is good to run it like that for at least a few good hours.

  
 Thanks for your feedback as we do take note.


----------



## EVOLVIST

Just my two cents - and to reiterate what's been said in here before - the DAC section, only, for the iDSD micro is difficult to beat at nearly any level. That means going Direct out RCA to a quality HP amp (either the iCAN or otherwise).
  
 That said, you can only pack so much into a little box, like iFi did. I haven't tinkered with it, because I don't have IEMs, but from many reviews, the HP out on the iDSD micro is more expressive and full with IEMs than it is with full sized cans. Like I said, there's only so much a little box can do...but it does it quite well, on many stages.
  
 I wouldn't presume to speak for iFi, but I have read from them, on more than one occasion, how in the UK there are more IEM users that electrostatic users, hence a design that tries to balance both type of HP listeners, perhaps with a slight leaning towards the IEM market? I would hazard to say, yes, especially since the iDSD micro has it's own iEmatch build in. In that respect, iFi has performed quite admirably.  
  
 So, right, when people compare the iDSD micro to the Hugo, it is usually the DAC section alone. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, how many people own the Hugo who still output to an external HP amp? Probably about 85% I'm sure. Many Hugo reviews point to external HP use. So, for the most part, you're doing the same thing for both products, only the iDSD micro costs less.
  
 Regardless, I think the above reasons is why iFi are now pushing larger desktop models and all-in-one combo speaker sets. iFi knows they can do more by implementing more; therefore, still keeping below the price point for the Hugo, I'm sticking with iFi, because man, with my HD800s, in DAC mode only...I'm pretty much in bliss.


----------



## iFi audio

hookedonaudio said:


> Thank you.  I will keep this mind.  I might try out the RCA outputs and see if the channel imbalance is still there or not.


 
  
  
 That tickled us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You have our kind of humour.


----------



## iFi audio

evolvist said:


> Just my two cents - and to reiterate what's been said in here before - the DAC section, only, for the iDSD micro is difficult to beat at nearly any level. That means going Direct out RCA to a quality HP amp (either the iCAN or otherwise).
> 
> That said, you can only pack so much into a little box, like iFi did. I haven't tinkered with it, because I don't have IEMs, but from many reviews, the HP out on the iDSD micro is more expressive and full with IEMs than it is with full sized cans. Like I said, there's only so much a little box can do...but it does it quite well, on many stages.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Thanks for this comment. We can elaborate a little more.
  
 For AMR, we knew speakers was a narrower spectrum in that amp + speaker matching was pretty easy and common to do well.
  
 But when iFi was launched in 2006, we under-estimated the much broader spectrum of headphones. From IEMs > Big gun headphones. (Sennheiser IE-800 through to HiFi Man HE-6).
  
 The micro iCAN, we added the gain switch and then the micro iDSD we added the iEMatch.
  
 We realised early on that most people own multiple headphones and each time, they take a different pair depending upon the circumstances they are using it around.
 eg IEMs for going out and about. And headphones when at home.
  
 So any deceent headphone amplifier needed to serve these multiple purposes = have the flexibility and the sonics.
  
 In Japan you have many IEM users (because people are in close proximity, hence you need your own "isolation").
  
 Whereas here in Europe when you are home, most of us can get away with headphones and even open-backed ones at that.
  
 So we need to have that "adaptability" for people suit.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Edric Li

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for this comment. We can elaborate a little more.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well said.


----------



## Dobrescu George

evolvist said:


> Just my two cents - and to reiterate what's been said in here before - the DAC section, only, for the iDSD micro is difficult to beat at nearly any level. That means going Direct out RCA to a quality HP amp (either the iCAN or otherwise).
> 
> That said, you can only pack so much into a little box, like iFi did. I haven't tinkered with it, because I don't have IEMs, but from many reviews, the HP out on the iDSD micro is more expressive and full with IEMs than it is with full sized cans. Like I said, there's only so much a little box can do...but it does it quite well, on many stages.
> 
> ...


 
 If you are familiar with hugo, most of time it is used as DAC+AMP, because the amp is built in in the DAC. So, no true line out for hugo. one should never compare two products as more than they are standalone. if i get a idsd i will use it as a DAC and AMP. because i cannot carry a 3 piece 1 kilogram kit for portable music.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I just wanted to say thanks to the ifi rep for the information and active participation here on this thread. I realize the investment it takes but it is much appreciated and certainly was part of the reason I purchased this product.


----------



## EVOLVIST

dobrescu george said:


> If you are familiar with hugo, most of time it is used as DAC+AMP, because the amp is built in in the DAC. So, no true line out for hugo. one should never compare two products as more than they are standalone. if i get a idsd i will use it as a DAC and AMP. because i cannot carry a 3 piece 1 kilogram kit for portable music.


 
  
I'm familiar with the Hugo, but I don't think your statement is true in that most people use it as a standalone DAC+AMP. I mean, that’s the way it’s advertised, but so is the iDSD micro, and how many people use it either as a standalone DAC? Tons! Otherwise neither product wouldn’t have RCA outs.
In fact, the Hugo vs. iDSD thread that you, yourself, have been participating in, the reviewer was doing his shootout through various tube HP amps.
You’re coming from the perspective of being on the go all the time. From what I gather do you don’t want desktop gear. Cool! So you’re trying to find the best solution. Both solutions will work. Both solutions need an external transport for your audio. Cool.
I’m just saying most people use them as one or the other…or both! They are standalone in your mind, because that’s what you seek. That’s awesome for you. Get one already.


----------



## JuleZ3C

I too see the micro as a DAC first, that I can also use on the go without the need to add another device.
 But it is mostly an extremely nice DAC that I use through a tube amp (Ember Project) with amplified speakers or headphones at home.
 I might even get a micro ICAN on top of that to get back the XBASS and 3D with the HP.
 Not to say that the amp section is awful, but it is understandably not as refined as a stand-alone one given the size of the package / battery operation...


----------



## HookedOnAudio

evolvist said:


> Just my two cents - and to reiterate what's been said in here before - the DAC section, only, for the iDSD micro is difficult to beat at nearly any level. That means going Direct out RCA to a quality HP amp (either the iCAN or otherwise).
> 
> That said, you can only pack so much into a little box, like iFi did. I haven't tinkered with it, because I don't have IEMs, but from many reviews, the HP out on the iDSD micro is more expressive and full with IEMs than it is with full sized cans. Like I said, there's only so much a little box can do...but it does it quite well, on many stages.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did make it clear in one of my posts that I am strictly focusing on portable gear for the headphones.  Therefore, when purchasing, reviewing, and so on, it will either be DAC+AMP or AMP, never DAC only.  The DAC only part is just a novelty/experience part (i.e. someone mentioned the DAC was superb, so for educational purposes, I may try it when chance is available, but it would never be a priority for current purchase & reviews).  Of course, to each their own usage model.  As long as it's clear, then I think any perspective impression will be helpful and taken constructively by a least some readers of the forums.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Our only small bit bit of input is that the way to setup the Analogue Volume Control is to have it working on 12 > 3 o clock. (so alter the Power + iematch so that your listening level is 12 > 3 o clock).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you much for taking my feedback in a constructive way and hopefully utilizing that as material for your next possible products.  As i have (hopefully) made clear in all my writing about this topic, I was truly originally excited to be getting my hands on a new one and checking this out after reading much about it.  So, all I wrote were my honest opinions (no bias or intent to intentionally negatively criticize).  Although this time, the iDSD Micro was the lowest one in my ranking, I am still just as actively interested and see where you all go in the future - whether it be more desktop-oriented or portable-oriented.  I just like audio stuff in general, so it is still of interest (even if I may not purchase one right away or near future).


----------



## the-kraken

HookedOnAudio: what headphones did you pair the ifi with? (I noticed that you mentioned ultrasones, and my drumming cans, pro 900's, do get hot in the treble region quite easily). I tried them out with the ifi, and though I can hear heightened treble - I'm not catching any of the sibilance or harshness you mentioned. Keep in mind that the pro900's do measure elevated treble, so what I'm hearing is consistent with his specific model. 

On my fostex th900's & ifi micro, I have just a touch less treble & upper-midrange vs. the fostex hp-a8c. The th900's, while not hd800's or lcd-x's, are quite resolving... if there was sibilance or harshness across the board, I'd catch it (I'm a bit treble sensitive anyway). If anything, I probably have a bit of smoothing at the edge of the treble region. 

Perhaps the ifi micro just doesn't pair well with ultrasones? Might be good to check owners of those phones to see if anyone else has had the same experience.


----------



## Heartsmart

the-kraken said:


> HookedOnAudio: what headphones did you pair the ifi with? (I noticed that you mentioned ultrasones, and my drumming cans, pro 900's, do get hot in the treble region quite easily). I tried them out with the ifi, and though I can hear heightened treble - I'm not catching any of the sibilance or harshness you mentioned. Keep in mind that the pro900's do measure elevated treble, so what I'm hearing is consistent with his specific model.
> 
> On my fostex th900's & ifi micro, I have just a touch less treble & upper-midrange vs. the fostex hp-a8c. The th900's, while not hd800's or lcd-x's, are quite resolving... if there was sibilance or harshness across the board, I'd catch it (I'm a bit treble sensitive anyway). If anything, I probably have a bit of smoothing at the edge of the treble region.
> 
> Perhaps the ifi micro just doesn't pair well with ultrasones? Might be good to check owners of those phones to see if anyone else has had the same experience.






I think it would be helpful to have a thread where people can tell wich headphones they prefer to use with iDSD micro. I have created one if you want to use it.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/756697/ifi-idsd-micro-wich-headphones-do-you-prefer-to-use-with-idsd-micro


----------



## spewer

As a newbie who has read all 198 pages of this thread I am still left with a few questions. But before that some thanks to all who have patiently answered questions and, most of all, to the Ifi rep who has answered everything thrown at him.

I think know the answer to some of these, so will post my understanding. 

First, the big picture. I am looking for a DAC that will serve both as a portable and as part of my sound system. What appeals to me about the Ifi is that from all that I have read it will do both. 

If I am on-target on this let me tell you more about my system. On the portable side I use an Ipad mainly with (don't laugh you guys with $1,000 ear cans) ear buds. What appeals to me about the Ifi is that it will play ALAC files with true lossless sound depending, of course on the software (we'll get to that).

I don't usually use Itunes, or the cloud, but keep my musix, etc. on SD cards I play through the Ipad (took awhile to find a program that would do this). 

On the sound system side I run a highly-modified custom tube amp through an equalizer and QSC power amp and some rebuilt AR 3 speakers. What I wanted to do was to be able to play ALAC files into my main system. My understanding is that the Ifi will do that and to use the direct setting for the interface. I exoerimented running the Ipad off the headphone jack and the results were enough to convince me of the potential this has as a playback systm instead of using CDs. It will take awhile to convert all of my CDs but in the long run the flexibility of being able to customize my music is great.

The tethered system can run off the server and hence use jriver or other software. 

My main confusion here is about battery in what we might term the "tethered" setting. The Ifi is battery powered only, which is a bit of a let down, but in a device that already does so much that is not even close to s deal-killer. If I read the threads right in a tethered setup the Ifi will maintain a charge as long as it is connected to an acceptable USB supply source. So since when I use it it will be plugged into my Ipad I assume that will work. I would turn on and shut off the Ifi for each listening session which seems to be the consensus suggestion. My question is suppose I left the tethered Ifi connected to an acceptable USB charger such as the Ipad charger? Does that make sense? 

The second question abut the Ifi is lifetime battery life. It sounds like it is like the Ipad in that the battery is not user-replaceable. I have not seen this question in the thread--although it is now so long I could have missed it--but how long will the Ifi go before needing a new battery. Obviously that depends on use, etc. but I ssume IFI has some idea. I don't want to invest in a device that becmes junk in two years because relacing the battery is mucho expensive. 

If all this makes sense, then the Ifi definitely looks like the way to go. Although I would like to hear it before pulling the trigger, the reviews online and responses in this forum suggest that the sound is outstanding, plus the device has enough flexibility in controls to "tune" it to your ear preference. Unfortunately there is nowhere near me to test it out. Maybe in the future more people will see the potential of Ifi as a company and start carrying their equipment. I suppose I could wait for the mini, but I like the idea of having a DAC headphone amp that will do double duty. 

I have many more questions about software, but that is for another thread and another place. 

Thanks for listening.


----------



## ClieOS

spewer said:


> As a newbie who has read all 198 pages of this thread I am still left with a few questions. But before that some thanks to all who have patiently answered questions and, most of all, to the Ifi rep who has answered everything thrown at him.
> ...
> 
> I have many more questions about software, but that is for another thread and another place.
> ...


 
  
 Not an iPad user, but I think the solution to your 'tethered' system  (or I just like to call it the 'desktop setup') is just to use am good self-powered USB hub. I think you should know that you need to use the official Camera Connection Kit to connect your iPad to iDSD micro, but you don't need to run iDSD at battery mode all the time if you put a self-powered USB hub between the Camera Connection Kit and the iDSD micro. That way, iDSD micro will be charged by the USB hub and won't drain off the internal battery all the time (as long as you turn on the iDSD after you plug it into the USB hub). If you get a BC1.2 compatible USB hub, then iDSD micro should be very well powered most of the time and battery drainage will be minimum, or at least as little as it can be. Should also help to extend the battery shell life too.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

the-kraken said:


> HookedOnAudio: what headphones did you pair the ifi with? (I noticed that you mentioned ultrasones, and my drumming cans, pro 900's, do get hot in the treble region quite easily). I tried them out with the ifi, and though I can hear heightened treble - I'm not catching any of the sibilance or harshness you mentioned. Keep in mind that the pro900's do measure elevated treble, so what I'm hearing is consistent with his specific model.
> 
> On my fostex th900's & ifi micro, I have just a touch less treble & upper-midrange vs. the fostex hp-a8c. The th900's, while not hd800's or lcd-x's, are quite resolving... if there was sibilance or harshness across the board, I'd catch it (I'm a bit treble sensitive anyway). If anything, I probably have a bit of smoothing at the edge of the treble region.
> 
> Perhaps the ifi micro just doesn't pair well with ultrasones? Might be good to check owners of those phones to see if anyone else has had the same experience.


 

 Hi there.  It is not the treble that is making the ears tired.  From what I can tell, it is because of something like the over-clarity (to the point of artifically clearer than a real live person singing/playing would be heard at) which carries along with it the fine spaciousness/harshness/..sss sounds that come with it if your headphones can produce the details for your ears to feel/hear.  I mentioned many times, and unfortunately, I have to say again, it is really hard for me to describe with words.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I wish I could express it better somehow.
  
 The closest I can come up with in terms of a theoretical reasoning is that it is like as if there is too much clarity + up front in front of you front row seat sound + ultrasonics (the not really audible, but can be heard by some, frequencies which are necessary to create spaciousness, clarity, quality feel, etc. but can cause more fatigue if too much or not done correctly).  A real-life analogy might be a combination of the two cases below:
  
 A) Take a comparison of a 128/192 kbps MP3 to a CD source.  Here, since cutoff freq is usually lower and still well within audible levels, you can definitely hear the difference in freq representation/availability.  HOwever, if you listen beyond just the "sound", you will sense the more lively/clear/spacious/perceptual aspect of the audio/song present in CD but not in MP3,.... now multiply only that portion of the audio feeling/listening experience by several times* without *the rest of the audible audio, and then push the sound more upfront and with increased clarity in CD quality in your face... bundle all that up into a new package, and that is I guess one part of the feeling/experience I got.  (I think)
  
 B) Increase in detail/clarity can be expressed similar to the difference you may originally feel/experience when comparing something like the Ultrasone Pro750 to a standard entry-level audiophile Sennheiser and multiplying that degree by a few times.  In other words, clarity and detail are definitely high quality sounding - no faults there, *but& each component (instrument, beat, voice) become very clear and distinct/authoritative on its own... so then becoming a matter of solo player vs. team player kind of analogy.  The mesh, how all the individual clear/detailed components are meshed together into the final bundled sound & experience.  I guess this is where the term "smooth" and "not smooth" might come into play.
  
 So kind of the combination of the two above would be perhaps express what I heard/experienced.
  
 By the way, as mentioned before, silver cables or the Oyaide signature type cables will most likely make this and the harshness worse, as I had mentioned in my orignal post, I ended going back to the house to swap cables after 10 mins outside even though originally within the first 5 mins I was intending to just bear it through until my return home later.
  
 All I can say is that this is the only amp where I ended up with the regular pattern of turning the volume to low monitoring level (just to hear what song is playing), and then turning it back on only the songs I really feel like listening/jamming to at the time.  When turning it up to jam 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have any pain or problems with trebles.  However, I can definitely feel my ears/listening getting tired by around the end of the song or the next song and wanting to turn it down to give them a rest.  Not pain, just "tired".  And the liveliness/clarity does, as mentioned above, feel artificial though *not* of the typical DSP type.
  
 Note that I usually kept the X-Bass and 3D sound effects off because I usually do not like to add those kinds of processing in with my amps (I did give them a try of course, to see what they sounded like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  To me, in various cases and various equipment, generally the music sounds better without any DSP type processing (provided the source is of high quality to begin with).  Of course, some DSP modes do offer a little "fun" for those times you're in the mood, though.


----------



## deskmate

hookedonaudio said:


> Note that I usually kept the X-Bass and 3D sound effects off because I usually do not like to add those kinds of processing in with my amps (I did give them a try of course, to see what they sounded like
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If I understand correctly, XBass and 3D in iDSD is not DSP, it's ASP.  Please correct me if I am wrong.
  
 BTW, which filter did you use for listening, from the forum posts, seems that the "Bit-Perfect" is the one gives the most organic sound.


----------



## ClieOS

@deskmate is right. XBass and 3DHS in iDSD micro (and iTube and iCAN as well) are not DSP based. They are full analog implementation and therefore don't have any of the typical issues introduced by DSP based EQ


----------



## HookedOnAudio

clieos said:


> @deskmate is right. XBass and 3DHS in iDSD micro (and iTube and iCAN as well) are not DSP based. They are full analog implementation and therefore don't have any of the typical issues introduced by DSP based EQ


 
  
 Oh, I wrote DSP referring to the usual/generalized case.  I do remember there were explanations of the analog processing (as opposed to digital) by either iFI or other knowledgeable people in the past.  In my tests with Xbass and the 3D sound, it made some songs sound better, but not all (some actually sounded a little worse) and not enough to be generalized for constant use.  I just generally kept it off because not having the processing did not particularly leave me hungering or in want of anything.  Since I use the gear mostly in portable situations, I didn't want to be toggling switches every few songs back and forth while on the move.  Just the volume knob is about enough for me.


----------



## maricius

hookedonaudio said:


> Note: I do not believe in "burn-in" for electrial components, only for mechanically moving parts (i.e. headphones have moving parts, engines/gears are moving parts).  Electrical burn-in for me would be like saying computers run faster/better after a few hundred hours than they were when originally purchased/made.  Others may disagree, but to my ears, I have not once ever noticed amps changing after long-term use (unless it was just my ears getting used to the amp).  Headphones, I kind of can hear the difference, but no facts to back it up.
> 
> 
> - Terrible channel imbalance when utilizing the DAC+internal amp mode.  I had to turn volume up quite loud for the imbalance to even out.  Therefore, most of my time was spent using the 3.5mm input.
> ...


 
  
 Personally I believed in burn in after trying it out with the iDSD, like I kept checking if earwax was building up from the erratic sound changes within the first 100 hours which only settled after the 100 hour mark and slowly improved without any changing of sound signature. I respect your beliefs.
  
 At what point of the travel do you experience channel imbalance in DAC/amp mode? 9 o'clock and below is normal. 12 o'clock to 2 is the best for me. If it has imbalance above 9 o'clock, that's faulty. The level of sound output (and thus my Power and iEMatch settings) is similar when using either the internal DAC or external DACs through the 3.5mm input. I'd say the internal DAC would output volume at around 2V to the iDSD's amplifier. What source are you using with the 3.5mm input of the iDSD? If there's nothing faulty, I sincerely believe you should never get channel imbalance when using the proper gain/iEMatch settings in both using the iDSD as a DAC/amp or amp.
  
 I understand your sound impressions if they were based of using the iDSD purely as an amplifier as the sound is lean in the lower midrange and bass frequencies making the overall sound thin, bright, energetic, fatiguing, etc. If you'd attribute the fatigue and overly clear sound to the iDSD as a DAC/amp, I'd say lacking in burn in or that you're used to overly warm and dark signatures and thus poor synergy with your gear. I've only read about the Hugo's sound but it's more or less accepted that the Hugo is considerably warmer and smoother than the slightly warmer than neutral iDSD (both as DAC/amps). I'm familiar with ALO gear, Mk3 B+, Continental V3, Island, International, International+, National, and Pan Am. I'm also familiar with Fiio gear, E10, E11, E17, and E12. I can say ALO and Fiio gear are on the considerably warm, dark, and smooth sound save for the Mk3B+ which I'd characterize to have strong bass, warm mids, forward treble (overall aggressive sound). 
  
 I'm sorry you feel that way about your iDSD and it actually makes me glad audio is subjective as I don't hear the mess you're hearing with your iDSD. Thank you as well for your comments but do at least try the DAC/amp once fixing the gain and resistor settings. I can't convince you of burn in unless you'll try it yourself so that's that. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Dobrescu George

about my comment regarding hugo and idsd. hugo does not have a true line out. the dac and amp in it are un-separable by design. practically, even with it's line out, the sound still goes through amp at full volume. there was a discussion about it and why it happens like this, it is because the dac is designed combined with the amp, so that the whole circuit is going to be more transparent. 
  
 so, no true testing of hugo vs idsd, unless you test them as whole devices. you cannot test the pure DAC sections in each, this would explain the lack of reviews.


----------



## iFi audio

spewer said:


> The second question abut the Ifi is lifetime battery life. It sounds like it is like the Ipad in that the battery is not user-replaceable. I have not seen this question in the thread--although it is now so long I could have missed it--but how long will the Ifi go before needing a new battery. Obviously that depends on use, etc. but I ssume IFI has some idea. I don't want to invest in a device that becmes junk in two years because relacing the battery is mucho expensive.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The other questions have been very ably covered by other folks (thank you).
  
 yes the battery is replaceable. But best by someone with some technical knowledge as the switches can be broken if one is one is not careful when accessing the internals.
  
 With normal use (few hours a day, 7 days a week), the battery should last ~3-4 years.
  
 And eventually, when it is not longer good at holding its charge, then a new battery is required. And yes, we supply the battery.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## rickyleelee

hookedonaudio said:


> Well, I had a chance to listen to the iDSD Micro for several hour for several days along with other amps (multiple Fiio ones, ADL X1, Chord Hugo, ALO Audio, Burutta), and since I always appreciate everyone's impressions, I thought I would post my own to share.  Disclaimer: This is in no way an "expert review" nor is it written in "formal review" format.  These are just my own personal impressions, so others may easily disagree.  No flaming or insults please; if you disagree, just don't take my impressions into your account.  Also, I listened to the various amps with no personal bias (not even taking into account company reputation, service quality, etc.); just pure audio listening quality & pleasure.
> 
> I also want to mention, I have nothing against iFI and I was actually quite excited to check out this amp.... so again, please do not think anything negative I say is meant to flame their products at all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey there,
  
 "Sounds harsh (artificial?) to my ears" 
 "Using IEMatch, i had the feeling, that the fabulous sound was gone." 
 does it sound harsh or fabulous...?
  
  
 you may wish to rethink the iematch
 I had a similar experience. I use the Senn moments at 110db sensitivity and after emailing the techies I also felt turning iematch sounded worse than with.
 But ifi commented that the parts in the iematch are out of circuit when not used and suggested he plays music for a few hours, which remarkably improved things after less than 24 hours.
 I still use on high-sensitivity uematch.
  
  
  


  
  
 the iDSD micro is a enthusiasts device, just like a top dog camera
 Everything is adjustable and it has to be adjusted to works it’s best. I have the Nikon D600. To full utilize this camera, you need to sepnd five minutes adjusting all the settings otherwise it will take poor photos
  
 you may be better off with a "point and clack" superzoom model like the Sony RX-100. Set to auto and you are good to go
  
  
  

  
  
 in this vein, try something mainly adjustment free, like the IDSD nano or if there is no need for a portable DAC, or by the looks it, the IDAC2 that is coming up. I have one eye on it but need to listen to it first.
  
 YMMV, just sharing my experience as I have also been along this learning curve.


----------



## kawaivpc1

Wow, do you guys think iDSD Micro is worse than ADL X1 or A1?
 ADL X1 costs 330 dollars. iDSD Micro is about 499 dollars.


----------



## Dobrescu George

kawaivpc1 said:


> Wow, do you guys think iDSD Micro is worse than ADL X1 or A1?
> ADL X1 costs 330 dollars. iDSD Micro is about 499 dollars.


 
 how had you gotten to this conclusion? the amp in both x1 and a1 is not enough to drive most headphones out there. there actually are very few for which the amp in x1 or a1 will ever be enough.


----------



## kawaivpc1

dobrescu george said:


> how had you gotten to this conclusion? the amp in both x1 and a1 is not enough to drive most headphones out there. there actually are very few for which the amp in x1 or a1 will ever be enough.


 
  
  


> My order of favorites if price was not a concern would be
> 1. Hugo
> 2. ALO Audio
> 3. ADL X1
> ...


----------



## Hubert481

What ALO Audio?
 There are so many on their HP?


----------



## maricius

kawaivpc1 said:


>


 

 That is the respected individual opinion of an unsatisfied user. 


kawaivpc1 said:


> Wow, do you guys think iDSD Micro is worse than ADL X1 or A1?
> ADL X1 costs 330 dollars. iDSD Micro is about 499 dollars.


 
  
 To answer your question, yes. He does. 
  
  
 Edit/Addition:
  


hubert481 said:


> What ALO Audio?
> There are so many on their HP?


 

 He mentioned the ALO MKIII B+ which I too personally rank higher than the iDSD in terms of sound quality of the AMP SECTION ALONE.


----------



## technobear

kawaivpc1 said:


> dobrescu george said:
> 
> 
> > how had you gotten to this conclusion? the amp in both x1 and a1 is not enough to drive most headphones out there. there actually are very few for which the amp in x1 or a1 will ever be enough.
> ...




Yes but that is the assessment of one person who has chosen that 'he does not believe' in something that hundreds of us have actually experienced already. It's a bit like choosing to believe that the Sun will rise in the North tomorrow.

If he keeps and uses the iDSD long enough to burn it in then he will come, grudgingly no doubt and with egg on his face, to a different conclusion.


----------



## MattTCG

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The other questions have been very ably covered by other folks (thank you).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can I ask the cost of the battery replacement and where the unit would have to be mailed?
  


technobear said:


> Yes but that is the assessment of one person who has chosen that 'he does not believe' in something that hundreds of us have actually experienced already. It's a bit like choosing to believe that the Sun will rise in the North tomorrow.
> 
> If he keeps and uses the iDSD long enough to burn it in then he will come, grudgingly no doubt and with egg on his face, to a different conclusion.


 
  
 I'm not so sure about this. We all hear things differently. People's own preferences, hearing etc will contribute to enjoyment more than anything else. Take the hd800 for example. Opinion is very divided about this hp. I would put it in the top five hp's in production today. But many would say it's way too bright, lacks bass and is utterly fatiguing. 
  
 Enjoyment and appreciation for any product/gear will always have more to do with the individual than with the gear itself...imo.


----------



## natra084

hi guys I have a battery question if I have the micro always plugged in with USB power will this destroy the battery because in my experience every device that I have owned doesn't like if you have the power cable always on be it cellphones or something else.


----------



## john57

The micro has smart charger built-in. My micro always has USB power and volume is turn on full time.


----------



## technobear

matttcg said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Yes but that is the assessment of one person who has chosen that 'he does not believe' in something that hundreds of us have actually experienced already. It's a bit like choosing to believe that the Sun will rise in the North tomorrow.
> ...




Too true about the HD800. I don't get it at all. I wouldn't use them if they were given to me for free.

I wonder if I have only heard HD800's that weren't broken in? :rolleyes:

My point is that burn-in of electronic components and the effect this has on analogue audio circuits is a well established phenomenon. It has been said to take various numbers of hours over the years but since the introduction of low ESR capacitors, the consensus has pretty much settled on 200 hours, both among users and among the audio engineers who design these circuits.

Then someone who flunked science and knows nothing about sub-atomic physics comes along and tells us it's all solid state and therefore cannot change. In reality, the closer you look, the less solid it all is. So called solids consist of little whirlpools of energy all in constant motion and all interacting together in various ways and to varying degrees depending on speed and harmonic relationships. These same energies or fields are responsible for the phenomena we call electricity, magnetism and gravity so it is little wonder that when these phenomenon occur, it leads to realignments/rearrangements in so called solids (you might like to think about how magnetic tape works - that is solid after all).

Enough of the physics though. The anecdotal evidence is really enough for our purposes here.

Impressions of gear that has not been broken in or burned in are not very useful.


----------



## natra084

john57 said:


> The micro has smart charger built-in. My micro always has USB power and volume is turn on full time.



but doesn't this damage the battery by damage I mean reduce the life spand


----------



## rickyleelee

"The ALO MKIII B+ which I too personally rank higher than the iDSD in terms of sound quality of the AMP SECTION ALONE."
Yo, the ALO is selling for 650 USD, just for an Amp, no DAC at all? 

If at that price it does not kick the stuffing out of the Amp integrated into a 500 USD DAC/Amp with a very advanced DAC so it is not funny, you should demand your money back?


----------



## iFi audio

natra084 said:


> but doesn't this damage the battery by damage I mean reduce the life spand


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Nope. Not at all and is how we recommend the battery should used.
  
 The SmartPower background is over on the Crowd-Design thread. Far too much info to put in here.
  
 There is an index on page 1.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## maricius

rickyleelee said:


> "The ALO MKIII B+ which I too personally rank higher than the iDSD in terms of sound quality of the AMP SECTION ALONE."
> Yo, the ALO is selling for 650 USD, just for an Amp, no DAC at all?
> 
> If at that price it does not kick the stuffing out of the Amp integrated into a 500 USD DAC/Amp with a very advanced DAC so it is not funny, you should demand your money back?


 

 Don't ask me dude… I'm more of a Cypher Labs Algorhythm Duet guy… but yeah, I'd definitely demand my money back if that were the case AHAHAHA. I recall around a couple of people who actually preferred the iDSD's amp section over the Schiit Asgard 2. I also know of a reviewer who thought the star of the iDSD was its amp section and not the very good but not-a-good-as-the-amp-section DAC section. I also know of a Head-Fier who disliked the iDSD's DAC section and preferred the DX90's lineout into the iDSD's amp section
  
 but I digress,
  
 I have no issues with its amp section considering the iDSD a portable device that can power any headphone I'd like it to considering I'm constantly moving around (school proximity issues) and as it is also my desktop setup. I am considering a desktop amp within a $2000 budget soon… I do hope it will be better than a Chord Hugo especially as they would be at similar costs.
  


technobear said:


> Yes but that is the assessment of one person who has chosen that 'he does not believe' in something that hundreds of us have actually experienced already. It's a bit like choosing to believe that the Sun will rise in the North tomorrow.
> 
> If he keeps and uses the iDSD long enough to burn it in then he will come, grudgingly no doubt and with egg on his face, to a different conclusion.


 

 If I disbelieve burn in again can I get an egg too?


----------



## natra084

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Nope. Not at all and is how we recommend the battery should used.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks


----------



## spewer

Thank you and Ifi for your quick and excellent answers. Since I tend to like diagrams, does the image below show what you described?


----------



## technobear

spewer said:


> Thank you and Ifi for your quick and excellent answers. Since I tend to like diagrams, does the image below show what you described?




What is the hub for?


----------



## kugino

john57 said:


> The micro has smart charger built-in. My micro always has USB power and volume is turn on full time.


me too.


----------



## ClieOS

spewer said:


> Thank you and Ifi for your quick and excellent answers. Since I tend to like diagrams, does the image below show what you described?


 
  
 Yes.
  


technobear said:


> What is the hub for?


 
 To make sure when the whole thing is used as a desktop setup for a prolonged period of time, the iDSD micro will be powered.


----------



## EVOLVIST

technobear said:


> Too true about the HD800. I don't get it at all. I wouldn't use them if they were given to me for free.
> 
> I wonder if I have only heard HD800's that weren't broken in?


 
 Great wee physics lesson, but lay off of my HD800, man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maybe you just haven't heard them on the right system:
  
 Jriver - > iDSD micro - > SPL Auditor - > HD800s. I've got British going into two Germans. Ja, ja, das ist gut! There really isn't a better setup for Tejano music. Plug it in with the T1s and all you've got is weak salsa.


----------



## iFi audio

evolvist said:


> Great wee physics lesson, but lay off of my HD800, man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Man you guys are funny.
  
 We choked on our doughnuts (who remembers the iFi doughnuts?) and spat our coffee out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Witty, very witty indeed.
  
 If you are are ever over here, we'll happily take you and "Retro Bear" out for coffee and doughnuts. We could charge admission!


----------



## gr8soundz

Recently ordered the iDSD Micro.
 Haven't received it yet but, after seeing the iFi stack, think I might try the iTube as well.
  
 Learned I won't need the iUSB since the Micro has built-in Purifier but I can't picture how to best chain the Micro and iTube together (iFi's site/documentation not much help).
  
 My question is, since the iTube only has analog RCA in/out, won't I be bypassing the Micro's DAC no matter how I connect these two? Or can the Micro access it's DAC when not using usb or the digital input?


----------



## maricius

gr8soundz said:


> Recently ordered the iDSD Micro.
> Haven't received it yet but, after seeing the iFi stack, think I might try the iTube as well.
> 
> Learned I won't need the iUSB since the Micro has built-in Purifier but I can't picture how to best chain the Micro and iTube together (iFi's site/documentation not much help).
> ...


 
  
 Some people still hear differences in using the iUSBPower with iFi's Gemini cable to the iDSD then using the iDSD's RCA out into the RCA in of the iTube… BUT then you'd need an external headphone amplifier like iFi's iCan and use it's RCA input.
  
 Basically:
  
 USB male A to male B (iFi's Mercury?) -> iUSBPower -> Gemini -> iDSD -> iTube -> iCan.
  
 Personally, that all seems very costly and I think the largest improvement would be with the iCan. I'm going for maybe a Schiit Wyrd which is similar to the iUSBPower but cheaper, has a data reclocker, BUT has no split power/data lines. Then I'd go for a large upgrade of a desktop amplifier like a Dragon Inspire IHA-1 or something to truly get an improvement out of the iDSD's amp section. That's just me.


----------



## gr8soundz

maricius said:


> Some people still hear differences in using the iUSBPower with iFi's Gemini cable to the iDSD then using the iDSD's RCA out into the RCA in of the iTube… BUT then you'd need an external headphone amplifier like iFi's iCan and use it's RCA input.
> 
> Basically:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the insights.
  
 Earlier in the thread iFi posted that the iUSB would have little to no effect with the Micro. However, with all its capabilities, seems a shame to use the Micro as a DAC only. How does the iCan compare to the Micro as a headphone amp?
  
 I could use my Fiio E17 after the iTube but already know it's nowhere near the iFi stuff. Or something like the Woo Audio WA7 (but less expensive) to keep everything digital prior to the headphone out.
  
 May just go direct to my amped speakers after the iTube instead and use the Micro's amp for direct headphone listening. Does the Micro auto bypass the RCA out if headphones are plugged in?


----------



## maricius

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the insights.
> 
> Earlier in the thread iFi posted that the iUSB would have little to no effect with the Micro. However, with all its capabilities, seems a shame to use the Micro as a DAC only. How does the iCan compare to the Micro as a headphone amp?
> 
> ...


----------



## gr8soundz

Thanks again *maricius.*


----------



## natra084

I just wanted to upload some pictures I hope you guys don't mind this is my current setup sennheiser HD650 / iFi micro idsd / audio-technica AT-HA22TUBE / Gustard U12 / Cable chord.


----------



## MattTCG




----------



## natra084

matttcg said:


>



nice


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thanks!! 
  
 Question...cable suggestions for connecting Android to the micro.


----------



## natra084

matttcg said:


> ^^ Thanks!!
> 
> Question...cable suggestions for connecting Android to the micro.



OTG cable


----------



## BillsonChang007

matttcg said:


>


 
 now all you need is a better RCA cable and headphone cable to be complete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


natra084 said:


> I just wanted to upload some pictures I hope you guys don't mind this is my current setup sennheiser HD650 / iFi micro idsd / audio-technica AT-HA22TUBE / Gustard U12 / Cable chord.


 
 that is one very tidy rig! Mine is pretty messy with many other cables haha


----------



## natra084

billsonchang007 said:


> now all you need is a better RCA cable and headphone cable to be complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks


----------



## MattTCG

billsonchang007 said:


> *now all you need is a better RCA cable and headphone cable to be complete *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've already got some Kimber PBJ's IC's in place and a new cable for the hd650 is on the way.


----------



## earfonia

natra084 said:


> I just wanted to upload some pictures I hope you guys don't mind this is my current setup sennheiser HD650 / iFi micro idsd / audio-technica AT-HA22TUBE / Gustard U12 / Cable chord.


 
  
 Very nice!


----------



## Dobrescu George

ifi idsd will be alavaible for testing soon in my country! i will refrain from buying hugo until i can test both.


----------



## natra084

earfonia said:


> Very nice!


 
 Thanks man


----------



## cute

matttcg said:


> billsonchang007 said:
> 
> 
> > *now all you need is a better RCA cable and headphone cable to be complete *
> ...


 
  
 Matt, how do you like the PBJ's, I have been using them for a couple years on one of my rigs....dead neutral wire, IMO, I also have DIY headphone extension and speaker tap patch cords made up of the same wire as the PBJ's.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I agree 100%...dead neutral wire and performs way better than it's price point.


----------



## iFi audio

*Just gonna stand there and watch me burn(-in)...*
 ​ WARNING​ These test signals are very loud so one must be very careful with the volume which may cause damage. Always start with the volume at minimum. AMR/iFi does not take any responsibility for loss of hearing and/or equipment damage. This is how we do it, nothing more, and nothing less. You are free to try but this is entirely at your own risk.​ 
  
  
 For those who have any interest only:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/753978/competition-closed-but-what-is-in-the-retro-stereo-50/150#post_11378409
  
  
 Within the next day or so, the link to download the burn-in files will available on the iFi website: www.ifi-audio.com
  
 We will also update here too with the password. Of course, this approach applies to any equipment, not only the Stereo 50.
  
 So if you have any interest, free downloads for expediting burn-in.
  
 Cheers


----------



## EVOLVIST

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the insights.
> 
> Earlier in the thread iFi posted that the iUSB would have little to no effect with the Micro. However, with all its capabilities, seems a shame to use the Micro as a DAC only. How does the iCan compare to the Micro as a headphone amp?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Man, I hate to muddy the waters, but since you're asking for opinions:
  
 First, I don't have the iCAN, but I got to demo one for days. It really is amazing for the cost and the price, and obviously it kills the amp section of the iDSD micro. It just didn't have the soundstage as my high-end HP amp, otherwise I would have kept it. But with my HD800s it really did sound beautiful. Very clear, not unbalanced across the bass, mids and treble. It really competes above its weight class (and I know that sounds cliché, but since most clichés are also truisms, I'll go with that).
  
 The iUSB Power does have an effect, but that's going to greatly depend on how noisy your computer is, or if you have dirty juice coming from your wall, etc. etc.
  
 What really DOES work, though, is the Gemini cable, with or without the iUSB Power. Now, I am not a cable guy at all. Many fancy cables I've heard do absolutely zero to the sound. The Gemini cable is a rare exception in that it really DOES work as advertised!
  
 I have pretty clean power in my home, and my computer is not noisy at all, but having the Gemini cable separate any dirt from the USB and then get the audio in a purer stream is a minor miracle. The difference really is night and day. I would tell anyone, forget the iUSB Power if you're inclined to, but don't skimp on the Gemini for computer audio. You'll be shocked at the difference. The only thing I can't tell a difference in, is when I move the sliders on the Gemini. It doesn't seem to make a difference. It's primary function, though, works!


----------



## Dobrescu George

@iFi audio Hello! About this, as idsd will come to my country soon, i think that i am going to wait until i hear it, but i wanted to ask about burn in. I understand that you provided some files that would be usefull, but if i use normal music, at normal levels, will this phenomenon occur after some hours of listening anyways?


----------



## iFi audio

dobrescu george said:


> @iFi audio Hello! About this, as idsd will come to my country soon, i think that i am going to wait until i hear it, but i wanted to ask about burn in. I understand that you provided some files that would be usefull, but if i use normal music, at normal levels, will this phenomenon occur after some hours of listening anyways?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes but a lot slower.
  
 So this is good for people who like it fast.
  
 For sure mechanical parts like drivers (read: headphones and speaker drivers) benefit a lot from these tracks.
  
 Take a few mimnutes to read the pdf as it outlines the technical aspects in quite a lot of detail.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## technobear

dobrescu george said:


> @iFi audio
> Hello! About this, as idsd will come to my country soon, i think that i am going to wait until i hear it, but i wanted to ask about burn in. I understand that you provided some files that would be usefull, but if i use normal music, at normal levels, will this phenomenon occur after some hours of listening anyways?




Yes. 200 hours is usually sufficient.


----------



## thinblueline

I got the dreaded crackle and popping sound on my iDSD Micro!  Life was going great until one day... BAM... the crackle and popping noise started appearing.  All I did was disconnected my portable hard drive and reconnected it later on for the problem to start.  I didn't change any settings or added any new hardware or software.  After tons of frustration to solve the issue, I switched the USB port and it stopped.  I considered myself pretty lucky since some others weren't able to resolve their issues according to what I read.  This is NOT an issue with ifi products but a general external DAC issue with computers.  I just thought to post my experience in case someone is running into the same problem.


----------



## gr8soundz

evolvist said:


> Man, I hate to muddy the waters, but since you're asking for opinions:
> 
> First, I don't have the iCAN, but I got to demo one for days. It really is amazing for the cost and the price, and obviously it kills the amp section of the iDSD micro. It just didn't have the soundstage as my high-end HP amp, otherwise I would have kept it. But with my HD800s it really did sound beautiful. Very clear, not unbalanced across the bass, mids and treble. It really competes above its weight class (and I know that sounds cliché, but since most clichés are also truisms, I'll go with that).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 I believe my equipment and power from walls are fairly clean.
  
 My music PC is a 100% fanless Zalman TNN 300: all aluminum w/ gold-plated heat pipes and shielded psu. I have an Essence ST card going to AE Aego M speakers, ssd, and use an APC batt backup (the batt seems to keep power a bit cleaner). Tweaked everything on it over the years and it sounds pretty good (family members' jaw still drop each time they hear it). But, as always, things can still be improved.
  
 Would love to get the Gemini but a bit too expensive at $250 (half the price of the Micro itself). Not sure if it would make a difference for my system but the iUSB alone is cheaper at $200 and could have similar effect (wouldn't mind having both though).
  
 Current problem has been going hi res (after using lossless wav files). Playback no issue using Foobar2k but its been a nightmare trying to find HD versions of my favorite albums.
  
 Plan to use the iDSD Micro to upsample everything to DSD512 (building a new fanless i7 for the grunt-work). Hoping for all-around improvements plus no more searching for hi-res stuff that doesn't exist.
  
 As for adding a tube (been few years since I tried any tube equipment), just came across the iFi Retro S50 (should have caught site of it sooner). Bit more expensive than Micro/iTube/etc. at $1300 (w/o speakers) but same DAC as Micro and better features/specs than the WA7. Retro S50 not portable but may be simplest solution. Trying to find specs on tube life now (rather not have to worry about replacing them; iTube is 100k hrs according to iFi).


----------



## Dobrescu George

Your source might not be so clean. it really looks like most of the materials are conductors between them. this causes a lot of leakeage of electrical current through it. 
  
 it is hard to explain, if you touch your actual setup, then while sitting on a chair, touch a water pipe, you should feel something if it is not clean, or not feel if it is pure clean.
  
 Also, i think that the solution is quite elegant!


----------



## technobear

gr8soundz said:


> Would love to get the Gemini but a bit too expensive at $250 (half the price of the Micro itself). Not sure if it would make a difference for my system but the iUSB alone is cheaper at $200 and could have similar effect (wouldn't mind having both though).




If you want to improve on the sound from your iDSD through headphones, the iCAN will give you a much bigger uplift in sound quality per $ than the iUSB Power or the Gemini.

I found the iUSB Power did not improve my iDSD+iCAN when connected to an Acer Aspire V11 fanless laptop. It didn't make a difference whether the laptop was running on its battery or from the wall. I tried for many hours to hear a difference but in the end had to conclude that it sounded just the same so I sold my iUSB Power.


----------



## gr8soundz

technobear said:


> If you want to improve on the sound from your iDSD through headphones, the iCAN will give you a much bigger uplift in sound quality per $ than the iUSB Power or the Gemini.
> 
> I found the iUSB Power did not improve my iDSD+iCAN when connected to an Acer Aspire V11 fanless laptop. It didn't make a difference whether the laptop was running on its battery or from the wall. I tried for many hours to hear a difference but in the end had to conclude that it sounded just the same so I sold my iUSB Power.


 
  
 After all you guys' input, I may end up doing a full iFi stack after all. Will probably add each piece over time.
  
 Also saw this motherboard with clean, islolated usb port for DAC use:
 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5173#ov
  
USB DAC-UP
Featuring USB 2.0 ports, GIGABYTE USB DAC-UP provides clean, noise-free power delivery to your Digital-to-Analog Converter. DACs can be sensitive to fluctuations in power from the other USB ports, which is why GIGABYTE USB DAC-UP takes advantage of an isolated power source that minimizes potential fluctuations and ensures the best audio experience possible.
  
 Its $99 and I'm already doing a new PC build. Integrated, less wiring overall, and perhaps cheaper solution.


----------



## EVOLVIST

technobear said:


> If you want to improve on the sound from your iDSD through headphones, the iCAN will give you a much bigger uplift in sound quality per $ than the iUSB Power or the Gemini.




Yeah, but have you heard it with the Gemini? The "night and day" analogy for me is in really dense music with a lot of layering, and how everything became seperated, floating in its own space.

Then again I made have had a major problem with dirty power that I wasn't aware of. I was completely ready to send the Gemini back. Indeed, I bought it on a lark. Now I can't live without it. The iUSB power I could live without, but it does add a touch more clarity. I'm just not sure if the clarity was worth the cost. * shrug *


----------



## EVOLVIST

gr8soundz said:


> After all you guys' input, I may end up doing a full iFi stack after all. Will probably add each piece over time.
> 
> Also saw this motherboard with clean, islolated usb port for DAC use:
> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5173#ov
> ...




Thanks for the heads up on this. Might be my next purchase.


----------



## TheAttorney

evolvist said:


> What really DOES work, though, is the Gemini cable, with or without the iUSB Power.


 
  
 How does use of the Gemini cable compare to running the iDSD from its internal battery (with blue USB cable to laptop/JRiver MC20)?
  
 I'm new to the iDSD, and still burning it in, but my initial impressions are that with its internal battery, and JRiver converting FLAC files to DSD, the iDSD is coming along very nicely indeed. More impressions to follow eventually, but in the first instance, I'm wondering what single tweak can improve on above combination?
  
 I'm not interested in building up the full iFi stack - my iDSD is intended for portable use only, so I'd like to keep it sweet and simple.


----------



## EVOLVIST

theattorney said:


> How does use of the Gemini cable compare to running the iDSD from its internal battery (with blue USB cable to laptop/JRiver MC20)?
> 
> I'm new to the iDSD, and still burning it in, but my initial impressions are that with its internal battery, and JRiver converting FLAC files to DSD, the iDSD is coming along very nicely indeed. More impressions to follow eventually, but in the first instance, I'm wondering what single tweak can improve on above combination?
> 
> I'm not interested in building up the full iFi stack - my iDSD is intended for portable use only, so I'd like to keep it sweet and simple.




Ya know, I haven't heard any difference at all when running straight battery with either the iDSD, my computer, or a combo of the two. Most of the people I've read have had the same experience.

Then again, I don't know if my Monster Pro 1000 power conditioner or my upgraded wall plug have anything to do with it, but I would venture to say that they don't.

 All I can say is the Gemini really worked for me, and I would have never thought that a cable could do that.


----------



## earfonia

gr8soundz said:


> After all you guys' input, I may end up doing a full iFi stack after all. Will probably add each piece over time.
> 
> Also saw this motherboard with clean, islolated usb port for DAC use:
> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5173#ov
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for this info! Will look into that feature when building new PC.


----------



## iFi audio

As promised:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/burn-in-like-a-pro/
  
 EDITED:
  
*Password = ifiaudio*
  
 Cheers.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

the-kraken said:


> HookedOnAudio: what headphones did you pair the ifi with? (I noticed that you mentioned ultrasones, and my drumming cans, pro 900's, do get hot in the treble region quite easily). I tried them out with the ifi, and though I can hear heightened treble - I'm not catching any of the sibilance or harshness you mentioned. Keep in mind that the pro900's do measure elevated treble, so what I'm hearing is consistent with his specific model.
> 
> On my fostex th900's & ifi micro, I have just a touch less treble & upper-midrange vs. the fostex hp-a8c. The th900's, while not hd800's or lcd-x's, are quite resolving... if there was sibilance or harshness across the board, I'd catch it (I'm a bit treble sensitive anyway). If anything, I probably have a bit of smoothing at the edge of the treble region.
> 
> Perhaps the ifi micro just doesn't pair well with ultrasones? Might be good to check owners of those phones to see if anyone else has had the same experience.


 

 Hi there!  I can definitely agree with your thought of sound being changed by the pairing.  I have had that experience first hand, although it was not during the trial of the IDSD Micro.
  
 Headphone A + Amp C --> sounds great          Headphone B + Amp C --> not that great
 Headhonne A + Amp D --> not that great         Headphone B + Amp D --> sounds great
  
 I remember when I had that kind of experience the first time, I was like, "Wow.... interesting.."  After thinking over the specs and characteristics of the amp in relation to the specs and characteristics of the headphones, I could possibly see the reason for this type of phenomenon, but it was not just a simple more power / less power thing. 
  
 For this trial of the iDSD, I did also hinted at it in my original comments that I feel the detail reveailng headphones may be part of the reason for the not so great sound/experience.


----------



## HookedOnAudio

maricius said:


> Personally I believed in burn in after trying it out with the iDSD, like I kept checking if earwax was building up from the erratic sound changes within the first 100 hours which only settled after the 100 hour mark and slowly improved without any changing of sound signature. I respect your beliefs.
> 
> At what point of the travel do you experience channel imbalance in DAC/amp mode? 9 o'clock and below is normal. 12 o'clock to 2 is the best for me. If it has imbalance above 9 o'clock, that's faulty. The level of sound output (and thus my Power and iEMatch settings) is similar when using either the internal DAC or external DACs through the 3.5mm input. I'd say the internal DAC would output volume at around 2V to the iDSD's amplifier. What source are you using with the 3.5mm input of the iDSD? If there's nothing faulty, I sincerely believe you should never get channel imbalance when using the proper gain/iEMatch settings in both using the iDSD as a DAC/amp or amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi and thank you very much for your thoughful comments and sharing of your own experiences.  I can see we share some similar views (i.e. some of your impressions of the other amps, etc.) as well as differing ones.  However, I am grateful for your sharing your insight, as that also helps me see in different ways.
 By the way, in my case, I didn't really notice any sound fluctuations with my trial of the iDSD Micro.  It sounded pretty much the same all the time (just like how I felt all other amps I had tried did).  Are you sure that (or have you explored the possiblity) that the fluctuations you had heard were not from outside environment (i.e. listening to your music in different environments - in a crowd, in the house, on a vehicle, etc. - can cause you to hear more/less of various frequencies and feel of the audio.  I only mention because I can see the outside environment affecting which sounds I hear and how the sound stage sounds/feels (at times, it may sound wider, at others narrower, all on the same amp, headphone, and song).
  
 I'm not debating your current belief regarding burn-in.  It's just that there are always cases where we miss looking at or considering another possibility, so wanted to bring one up.  I know I have mutiple times said, "yeah, that's definitely something to look at", "wow, that's true - that can be a possibilty too", after reading other people's comments and perspectives.  It is one of the reasons why I feel seeing the different opinions and perspectives is so very helpful for me.
  
 But in any case, it's good that we both have our own current decent/favorite amps because it means we're enjoying our music.


----------



## iFi audio

hookedonaudio said:


> It is one of the reasons why I feel seeing the different opinions and perspectives is so very helpful for me.
> But in any case, it's good that we both have our own current decent/favorite amps because it means we're enjoying our music.


 
  
 Nicely put. Always the tunes, always the tunes.
  
 We are glad there are alwys fair and considered discussions here and in other iFi threads.


----------



## the-kraken

HookedOnAudio said:
			
		

> For this trial of the iDSD, I did also hinted at it in my original comments that I feel the detail reveailng headphones may be part of the reason for the not so great sound/experience.




Erm, my th900's are quite revealing. Certainly better than my ultrasones.


----------



## gr8soundz

> USB DAC-UP
> Featuring USB 2.0 ports, GIGABYTE USB DAC-UP provides clean, noise-free power delivery to your Digital-to-Analog Converter. DACs can be sensitive to fluctuations in power from the other USB ports, which is why GIGABYTE USB DAC-UP takes advantage of an isolated power source that minimizes potential fluctuations and ensures the best audio experience possible.
> 
> The USB port supports the USB 2.0/1.1 specification. You can connect a USB DAC to this port or use this port for USB devices such as a USB keyboard/mouse, USB printer, USB flash drive and etc.
> ...


 
  
 Might be overkill, but I imagine using this feature alongside the iFi Gemini to make for the cleanest signal.
  
 Site says the isolated usb is only up to 2x cleaner which is nowhere near the other solutions. Still, this could help solve some usb handshake issues I'm seeing posted due to too many pieces between the pc and external dac. Might work better with fewer parts in the usb chain if board output is cleaner.
  
 Also, found even more boards with the feature (seems gigabyte made quite a few; could be more out there I haven't found yet):
  
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H7OHW8A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2ZJVOBJM0LH9X&coliid=I1SFAVIKO6OH41
  
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KRUX0PU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2ZJVOBJM0LH9X&coliid=I36GHC65C5W55I
  
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K8HNGXS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2ZJVOBJM0LH9X&coliid=IXIDTZ7LHYCRZ
  
 First two are itx, last one is matx and has multiple usb ports for dacs vs 1 on the others (should suffice for the Gemini's dual usbs).
  
 EDIT: added some more info (from motherboard manual) about the feature above. Nice that power to the port can be switched on/off in bios but only usb 2.0 max. Wonder if this will be an issue for the iDSD Micro (does it need usb 3.0 for highest DSD use)?


----------



## DougD

ifi audio said:


> As promised:
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/burn-in-like-a-pro/
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks !!!
  
 If these are likely to be better than randomly shuffled tunes for burning in gear, using these instead is a no-brainer.
  
 I can't say that I've ever personally detected something that I'd call GEAR burn-in, but I've never really tried either. It's all kinda Flying Spaghetti Monster-ish, hard to prove or disprove. (Especially since I absolutely do believe in the human-side burn-in of perceptions, expectations and acoustic memory.)  But there's no harm in assuming that burn-in is a real phenom that exists and must be accommodated before starting any "critical listening" tests or measurements.


----------



## Dobrescu George

i would say that there can be a burn in that happens every time you listen. Both mental and equipment one. think about that equipment tends to heat up. this changes some conductibility, even in integrated circuits.


----------



## Staxton

Hi,

 Thanks to the many great comments here on Head Fi I bought an micro iDSD to be a portable player stacked with a Samsung Galaxy S4 running USB Audio Player Pro. It's a great combination and it sounds great with my HD-800s.

 I have a couple of questions. In order to best operate the micro iDSD and the Galaxy S4 to conserve battery power in both devices, can I leave them connected via an OTG cable and turn them off and on whenever I want to play music; in other words, the micro iDSD won't try to draw power from the Galaxy S4 to charge itself if they remain connected with the iDSD powered off? Or do I have to disconnect the iDSD from the Galaxy, turn on the iDSD, and then reconnect it to the Galaxy each time before I use it? Forgive me if this is a stupid question or if I am missing something.

 Also, when I play a DSD file (.dsf), UAPP shows that it is playing at 176,000 khz; it doesn't show the native DSD rate of 2822400 hz. Is the file being played natively as DSD, is it being played DSD over PCM, or is something else going on?

 Thanks.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

staxton said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to the many great comments here on Head Fi I bought an micro iDSD to be a portable player stacked with a Samsung Galaxy S4 running USB Audio Player Pro. It's a great combination and it sounds great with my HD-800s.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 I have exactly the same setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 HD800 with micro iDSD and Samsung S4 (with 256 GB SD card) with UAPP.
  
 Here my results:
  
 DSD64 (.dff) =
  
 File: 176000Hz
 DAC: 176000Hz
  
 and the color LED is Cyan on the micro iDSD which is the indicator for DSD64.
  
 DSD256 (.dff) =
  
 File: 705600Hz
 DAC: 705600Hz
  
 and the color LED is Blue on the micro iDSD which is the indicator for DSD256.
  
 DXD384 (.wav) =
  
 File: 384000Hz
 DAC: 384000Hz
  
 and the color LED is Yellow on the micro iDSD which is the indicator for DXD384.
  
  
 I hope that helps. Here is the statement with native / or PCM: http://www.head-fi.org/t/704065/usb-audio-recorder-pro-uapp-24-and-32-bit-playback-ubiquitous-usb-audio-support-for-android/210#post_11149047


----------



## technobear

staxton said:


> Is the file being played natively as DSD, is it being played DSD over PCM, or is something else going on?




It's DoP (DSD over PCM). 

The DAC is playing the file as DSD. The DSD data is simply placed into PCM packets with a marker that tells the DAC 'this is actually DSD, not PCM'.


----------



## Dobrescu George

So any dsd will be played like this..
  
 let me ask something more tangible. with x5, there was more or less no difference between dsd and redbook of nirvana - bleach for example. with idsd anyone noticed a difference?


----------



## Staxton

h1f1add1cted said:


> I have exactly the same setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks! That helps very much.
  
 Actually, it was your setup that after many hours of searching convinced me to go with the ifi and the S4 because of the great results you got with the HD800s.
  
 Can I ask where you got the micro to SD card adapter? I've looked all around and can't seem to find what you're using.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

staxton said:


> Thanks! That helps very much.
> 
> Actually, it was your setup that after many hours of searching convinced me to go with the ifi and the S4 because of the great results you got with the HD800s.
> 
> ...


 

 No problem. I don't know in which country you live, I'm from Germany and I've ordered from Amazon.de a Delock micro sd to sd adpater (no. 61680), I've searched on Amazon.com for that, but I can't find this model there. But here this should be the same for example: www.amazon.com/KZ-B19-065-SD-Micro-FPC-Extender/dp/B00B2BWBFI/


----------



## jagu

Just pulled the trigger to get my very own Micro! Been reading this thread with great interest and I have been choosing between, ALO the International+, CEntrance Hifi-M8 and the ifi iDSD micro. The ifi Micro seems to me be the most versatile of them and I like the fact that it can handle sensitive IEMs like my JH13 Pros and Android phones out of the box.
  
 Currently, I have an HRT microstreamer, connected to my JH13 Pro w/fp or Philips Fidelio L2, used both with PC and LG G3. 
 To connect the LG G3, I use a Forza Audioworks OTG cable, http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/14/5a6ab12d2eaff47ce95a779ba78a3e5c.jpg. This is a smooth setup (USB micro male->USB mini male), with only one cable from phone to dac/amp. I'm considering ordering a similar cable but for the LG G3 and ifi Micro.
 On ifi audio's website it says that the Micro's input is "USB 2.0 type A “OTG” Socket" but looking ath the ifi mercury USB it looks like a type B connector? A bit confusing for me! I guess I will find out on Monday!
  
 I also noticed that Forza Audioworks makes a twin USB cable with separated signal and power lines, http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=46, just like the Gemini but without the sliders. Seems like a nice alternative to the Gemini! I will probably order one later on.


----------



## technobear

dobrescu george said:


> So any dsd will be played like this..



..from UAPP.


----------



## technobear

jagu said:


> On ifi audio's website it says that the Micro's input is "[COLOR=656565]USB 2.0 type A “OTG” Socket" [/COLOR]...




Yes.



jagu said:


> ...but looking at the ifi mercury USB it looks like a type B connector?




Yes.

The Mercury can be used with the iDSD if you use the adaptor that comes with the iDSD.


----------



## jagu

technobear said:


> Yes.
> Yes.
> 
> The Mercury can be used with the iDSD if you use the adaptor that comes with the iDSD.


 
 So, if I understand correctly, both Gemini and Mercury need the adapter to iDSD? Why not just provide USB cables with the correct usb type A male from the start? Cost/build reasons? How's the build of the adapter?
  
 Maybe, it's already explained earlier in the thread why ifi chose to go with USB type A on the iDSD instead of type B or mini.


----------



## technobear

jagu said:


> So, if I understand correctly, both Gemini and Mercury need the adapter to iDSD?




Yes.



jagu said:


> Why not just provide USB cables with the correct usb type A male from the start?




The Mercury and Gemini were introduced before the iDSD was designed.



jagu said:


> How's the build of the adapter?




The build is good. The guys at iFi tried a few before settling on the one provided.



jagu said:


> Maybe, it's already explained earlier in the thread why ifi chose to go with USB type A on the iDSD instead of type B or mini.




The type A plug was chosen so that the iDSD can work with the Apple CCK, which has a type A socket, without any additional cables or adaptors.

For Android users, USB OTG cables with type A sockets are available.

It would be cool if iFi were to produce a new Mercury and a new Gemini with the type A socket for use with the iDSD. I don't know if the cost of the re-design would be worth it though.


----------



## ClieOS

jagu said:


> So, if I understand correctly, both Gemini and Mercury need the adapter to iDSD? Why not just provide USB cables with the correct usb type A male from the start? Cost/build reasons? How's the build of the adapter?
> 
> Maybe, it's already explained earlier in the thread why ifi chose to go with USB type A on the iDSD instead of type B or mini.


 
  
 ...because Gemini and Mercury cable are both released way before iDSD micro, and they are intended for iDAC / iUSB Power / iDSD nano. iDSD micro, which comes much later than the other, has a USB-A male plug because that makes OTG a lot simpler, which I personally find to be a brilliant choice on iFi's part.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Yes, but if you're using the ifi as a desktop solution and no using OTG...


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> ^^ Yes, but if you're using the ifi as a desktop solution and no using OTG...


 
  
 ...then it is even easier. All you need is a good quality USB3.0 extension cable, similar to the stock cable.


----------



## jagu

technobear said:


> It would be cool if iFi were to produce a new Mercury and a new Gemini with the type A socket for use with the iDSD. I don't know if the cost of the re-design would be worth it though.


 
 I can always get a custom cable that erases the need of the adapter. For a desktop solution maybe not that necessary but for mobile use it could be worth for a smooth setup.
  


clieos said:


> ...iDSD micro, which comes much later than the other, has a USB-A male plug because that makes OTG a lot simpler, which I personally find to be a brilliant choice on iFi's part.


 
 I agree!
  
 Thanks for your answers, headfiers!This is what I love about communities, always someone there to help a not-so-enlighted chap like me! Can't wait till I pick up the iDSD Micro on Monday.


----------



## MattTCG

clieos said:


> ...then it is even easier. All you need is a good quality USB3.0 extension cable, similar to the stock cable.


 
  
 But it annoys me to have to use the adapter with my nice usb cable. I'm using the micro as a desktop solution 90% of the time.


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> But it annoys me to have to use the adapter with my nice usb cable. I'm using the micro as a desktop solution 90% of the time.


 
  
 To me, the stock cable is nice enough.


----------



## Staxton

h1f1add1cted said:


> No problem. I don't know in which country you live, I'm from Germany and I've ordered from Amazon.de a Delock micro sd to sd adpater (no. 61680), I've searched on Amazon.com for that, but I can't find this model there. But here this should be the same for example: www.amazon.com/KZ-B19-065-SD-Micro-FPC-Extender/dp/B00B2BWBFI/


 
  
 Thanks for the recommendation! I am in the United States and I ordered the extender from Amazon.
  
 I see that Anker makes a 7800 mAh battery for the S4 http://www.amazon.com/7800mAh-Extended-T-Mobile-Cellular-MetroPCS/dp/B00GNQ10VS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425654315&sr=8-1&keywords=anker+galaxy+s4+extended+battery. Do you think the 5200 mAh Anker battery and the SD adapter could both fit in the larger rubber-like back cover that comes with the 7800 mAh battery? Of course, that might make the whole stack much thicker.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Sorry I can't predict in this case, You need to try. For me I've tried and I had luck, that it fits so well.


----------



## cronsell

My thoughts on the iDSD after owning the iDAC: the iDSD is superior in every way.  Even though my library of DSD is small, what I hear on those tracks is absolutely sublime.  There is no doubt in my mind that DSD is a much more analog-like, and therefore authentic, reproduction of music.  As a musician, I listen for slightly different things than many audiophiles, and tend to gravitate towards harmonic content of sound...space in the room, overtones (and resultant tones) of a perfectly balanced and tuned triad, that sort of thing. DSD delivers in that regard in ways I had come to no longer expect from digital.  So, the iDSD, at such a low price, is absolutely perfect for looking into the format.  All that being said, I hear improvements in my standard 1411 FLAC files as well, so it becomes a no brainer...go get one.


----------



## kugino

dobrescu george said:


> So any dsd will be played like this..
> 
> let me ask something more tangible. with x5, there was more or less no difference between dsd and redbook of nirvana - bleach for example. with idsd anyone noticed a difference?


I've found that with DSD the mastering process tends to be a little better and more care is taken with the source material. I'm not sure that DSD in itself is superior to redbook in terms of how it sounds to the average listener given equal mastering. (arguments can be made about the technical superiority of DSD, of course, but I'm not talking about that). very good reddbook can sound really good...and terribly mastered DSD can sound awful. source material is very important, no matter the format.

p.s.

and a more technical explanation...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/625793/audio-gd-master-7-discrete-fully-balanced-dac-pcm1704/1335#post_10269317


----------



## GrahamL

Calling iClub members!

Can anyone comment on how well the latest beta firmware overcomes the DSD popping "issue" please? I'm not an iClub member so can't test it.

I'm currently trying two methods of delivering DoP to my iPhone/iPad over the network. Both work well other than the pops on track start/skip. I would love to know how well the new firmware is working, so I can either sit tight or look for an alternative method!

Thanks


----------



## karistep

Did you try this one
http://ifi-audio.com/3-steps-micro-idsd-firmware-upgrade/


----------



## earfonia

Today I played around with the filter settings of iDSD micro, monitored by simple USB oscilloscope (Velleman PCSU200). So line output of the micro iDSD goes direct to USB oscilloscope input (1 Mohm input impedance).
  
 Line Output setting: Direct
 Power Mode: Normal
 Polarity: +
 RCA Cable: Wireworld Luna 7 (50 cm)
 Adapter: Monster RCA to BNC
  
  
 Here are the screenshots if you guys interested, showing only the left channel:
  
  
*12 kHz Sine wave - PCM bit depth and sampling rate: 24 bit - 48 kHz*
  
 Bit-Perfect

  
 Minimum Phase

  
 Standard

  
  
  
*12 kHz Sine wave - PCM bit depth and sampling rate: 24 bit - 192 kHz*
  
 Bit-Perfect

  
 Minimum Phase

  
 Standard

  
  
  
*12 kHz Square wave - PCM bit depth and sampling rate: 24 bit - 192 kHz*
  
 Bit-Perfect

  
 Minimum Phase

  
 Standard

  
  
  
*12 kHz Sawtooth wave - PCM bit depth and sampling rate: 24 bit - 192 kHz*
  
 Bit-Perfect

  
 Minimum Phase

  
 Standard


----------



## citraian

Interesting. What about all three waves at 24/41?
Also interested in the freq response. Is this posted somewhere?


----------



## earfonia

citraian said:


> Interesting. What about all three waves at 24/41?
> Also interested in the freq response. Is this posted somewhere?


 
  
 Sorry, I'm lazy to redo all the test in 24/41 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I only posted it here.


----------



## GrahamL

karistep said:


> Did you try this one
> http://ifi-audio.com/3-steps-micro-idsd-firmware-upgrade/


 
  
 Thanks for the reply. Mine's a new unit; the version you linked (v4.06) is already installed.
  
 v4.06 fixes the pop in some use cases, but not mine unfortunately. The changelog for the latest beta (v0.16) says "Fix completely clicks when switching between PCM and DoP DSD" which I can't wait to try.
  
 If it works well then my preferred method of delivering DSD to my iOS devices at home (DoP ALAC served by iTunes Home Sharing) should hopefully work out nicely. It works now, apart from the damn clicks between tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Fingers crossed


----------



## maricius

iFi did say BitPerfect with the ****tiest sine wave would have the best impulse response.


----------



## justabanana

Hi ClieOS  , so by having iDSD , A15 are able to play DSD audio file simply by adding the file inside A15 ? Or is there setting that you need to adjust ?


----------



## ClieOS

justabanana said:


> Hi ClieOS  , so by having iDSD , A15 are able to play DSD audio file simply by adding the file inside A15 ? Or is there setting that you need to adjust ?


 
  
 No, unfortunately. Although iDSD can play DSD files, A15 can't. It won't even recognize the files. You will have to stick to PCM.


----------



## iFi audio

earfonia said:


> Today I played around with the filter settings of iDSD micro, monitored by simple USB oscilloscope (Velleman PCSU200). So line output of the micro iDSD goes direct to USB oscilloscope input (1 Mohm input impedance).
> 
> Line Output setting: Direct
> Power Mode: Normal
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Here is some background information providing you all with an overview of the what these charts mean.
  
 These waveforms show ow the iDSD micro reacts to input data with the different filters.
  
 The Bit-Perfect Filter, 12kHz at 48kHz sample rate illustrates exactly what data can be acommodatd by the format. A 48kHz sample rate only has 4 samples available for a 12kHz sinewave, so there are only four datapoints available for the waveform and we see these four steps very clearly.
  
 The other (digital) filters introduce varying amounts of "ringing1". This smooth out the steady state sinewave. Increasing the sample rate also helps smooth the waveform.
  
 This can be seen with the squarewave and triangular waveforms. The distortion of the waveform with the different digital filters is timedomain distortion, as opposed to amplitude domain distortion on the sinewave cases.
  
 Clearly, the better a filter performs on sinewaves, especially at a low ratio between sample rate and signal, the poorer it performs with square/triangle waves.
  
 It takes very high sample rates (192kHz or higher) to make the difference small enough2 to no longer require any compromise between amplitude domain and time domain performance.
  
 At lower sample rates there is no absolute right or wrong answer, any answer is "wrong" somewhere. What works best depends on system context, music, recording and not the least personal taste.
  
 As there is NO such thing as a "perfect" filter (and don't let anyone tell you there is - if they do they are either ignorant of the real world facts on this or they are telling porkies).
  
 AMR/iFi prefers to offer several filters that offer different tradeoffs, so our customers may choose what suits them "best".
  
  
1 What is _Ringing_?: http://amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_ringing.html
2 For example the Sony Hi-Res Walkman app plays DSD but it actually converts DSD > PCM 176khz so this still sounds very satisfying with no obvious loss.


----------



## diamondears

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is some background information providing you all with an overview of the what these charts mean.
> 
> ...



Hi iFi,

I know that Minimum Phase has time domain distortion as trade off for removal of pre-ringing (but post-ringing still exists); while Standard Filter has both pre and post ringing but has no time domain and frequency distortion. This correct? Correct me if I'm wrong. 

How about the Bit-Perfect Filter? No pre and post ringings, but has lots of time domain distortion?

Don't get the graphs. Doesn't the sine waves show time domain distortion a, while square and triangle/sawtooth waves show amplitude or frequency distortion?

Cheers.


----------



## plakat

ifi audio said:


> AMR/iFi prefers to offer several filters that offer different tradeoffs, so our customers may choose what suits them "best".


 
  
 Yes, its always 'pick your poison' -- and people tend to have different views of what sounds good / correct, so having a choice is not a bad thing. And in the end the only thing that matters (at least to me) is how much it lets me enjoy music. Which is a bit hindered at the moment as I forgot the USB cable + CCK at home... but thats not a fault of the product of course


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is some background information providing you all with an overview of the what these charts mean.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! I know that. To me all looks good and as expected.  
 I really appreciate ifi to have included the 'bit perfect' filter which is to me looks like 'no filter', so I can use iDSD micro not only for audio, but also for signal generator, generating many types of waveform without low pass filter. Useful especially for generating low frequency square waves.
  
 One more thing, also thanks a lot for the DC coupled line output, exactly what I want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 1 Hz square wave:

  
  
  
 What I wish to be improved is the output tolerance of the line output. There is slight imbalance between left and right channel of the line output, even when the line output switch is set to 'Direct':
  
 Channel 1: Left Channel
 Channel 2: Right Channel
  
 1.0 Full scale

  
 0.75 Full scale

  
 0.5 Full scale

  
 0.25 Full scale

  
 At average of 0.26 dB different between left and right channel, it is still considered low, and not something alarming, but I wish the tolerance could be tighten to 0.1 dB. Probably on iDSD Pro


----------



## john57

Plus we do not know how well the calibration or accuracy between the two channels on the scope measuring voltage.


----------



## earfonia

diamondears said:


> How about the Bit-Perfect Filter? No pre and post ringings, but has lots of time domain distortion?


 
  
 What shown from the first graph, the 12kHz sine wave from 24bit/48kHz PCM, is not a distortion. The DAC faithfully reconstructs the data from the PCM file. What shown is exactly the information that is stored in 24bit/48kHz PCM.
 24bit/48kHz PCM simply doesn't have enough capacity to store better resolution of the 12 kHz sine wave, as compared to higher resolution such as the 24bit/192kHz PCM or higher.
 But the graph doesn't show what 'we want to see / hear'.  We want smoother sine wave beyond what 24bit/48kHz PCM is capable of.  This is where low pass filter plays its part, to smoothen the jagged edges to make better looking sine wave. But as explained by ifi, there is no such thing as perfect filter. At least as of now. So low pass filter has it's own pros and cons. Everything is a compromise. Depending on the purpose, all the available filters are very useful if we understand when to use them. For standard bit rate, 44.1 and 48 kHz, or music in general, I stick with 'Minimum Phase'. When using iDSD micro for other measurement purpose, or playing DXD files, I use 'Bit Perfect'. I use 'Standard' filter only when I hear the recording sounds harsh or too bright. I really like to have all the filters option available. Thanks ifi!


----------



## diamondears

earfonia said:


> What shown from the first graph, the 12kHz sine wave from 24bit/48kHz PCM, is not a distortion. The DAC faithfully reconstructs the data from the PCM file. What shown is exactly the information that is stored in 24bit/48kHz PCM.
> 24bit/48kHz PCM simply doesn't have enough capacity to store better resolution of the 12 kHz sine wave, as compared to higher resolution such as the 24bit/192kHz PCM or higher.
> But the graph doesn't show what 'we want to see / hear'.  We want smoother sine wave beyond what 24bit/48kHz PCM is capable of.  This is where low pass filter plays its part, to smoothen the jagged edges to make better looking sine wave. But as explained by ifi, there is no such thing as perfect filter. At least as of now. So low pass filter has it's own pros and cons. Everything is a compromise. Depending on the purpose, all the available filters are very useful if we understand when to use them. For standard bit rate, 44.1 and 48 kHz, or music in general, I stick with 'Minimum Phase'. When using iDSD micro for other measurement purpose, or playing DXD files, I use 'Bit Perfect'. I use 'Standard' filter only when I hear the recording sounds harsh or too bright. I really like to have all the filters option available. Thanks ifi!



Apologies, still don't get it totally. What are the actual pros and cons of each filter in terms of time domain distortion and amplitude/frequency response distortion? I mean, the trade offs?


----------



## earfonia

john57 said:


> Plus we do not know how well the calibration or accuracy between the two channels on the scope measuring voltage.


 
  
 Very good point!
  
 Here is the graph of the left channel, split to both channel1 and channel2. So same source for both channels. Total cable length about 1 feet.

  
 The scope I use is just a cheap and simple USB scope, and shouldn't be considered accurate. But so far quite useful.
 I've bought better one last week, on the way from Amazon


----------



## earfonia

diamondears said:


> Apologies, still don't get it totally. What are the actual pros and cons of each filter in terms of time domain distortion and amplitude/frequency response distortion? I mean, the trade offs?


 
  
 It is not easy to explain. Depending on the usage as I mentioned.  Low pass filter is used to lower *harmonic distortion* in the reconstructed audio signal, with a little trade off of *time domain distortion*. So, for the purpose of playing music, it is all depending on which sounds better to you. It is not about right or wrong here. Just trust your ears, use what sounds best to you. If you ask me what to use for playing music, especially on standard bitrate files, generally I will use 'Minimum Phase' filter.


----------



## diamondears

earfonia said:


> It is not easy to explain. Depending on the usage as I mentioned.  Low pass filter is used to lower *harmonic distortion* in the reconstructed audio signal, with a little trade off of *time domain distortion*. So, for the purpose of playing music, it is all depending on which sounds better to you. It is not about right or wrong here. Just trust your ears, use what sounds best to you. If you ask me what to use for playing music, especially on standard bitrate files, generally I will use 'Minimum Phase' filter.



Minimum Phase is my favorite too. It is the perfect compromise of the trade offs IMHO. 

So does Bit-Perfect have perfect timing domain and minimal harmonic distortion (from unfiltered noise?)?

When I switch back and forth the BP and MP filters, I hear less noise on MP, but hear more enveloping bass in the BP filter. I think this is why some find BP the warmer filter, while others find MP warmer. But why is this so?


----------



## earfonia

diamondears said:


> Minimum Phase is my favorite too. It is the perfect compromise of the trade offs IMHO.
> 
> So does Bit-Perfect have perfect timing domain and minimal harmonic distortion (from unfiltered noise?)?
> 
> When I switch back and forth the BP and MP filters, I hear less noise on MP, but hear more enveloping bass in the BP filter. I think this is why some find BP the warmer filter, while others find MP warmer. But why is this so?


 
  
 Bit-Perfect is put there as option to get the minimum time domain distortion (ringing). Harmonic distortion? Well this one difficult topic. If you see the first graph of 12kHz at 48kHz sampling rate, theoretically it is the correct reconstructed waveform from 48kHz sampling rate PCM, but still rather far from a perfect sine wave, due to the limitation of 48kHz PCM. Though it is a correct reconstructed waveform, is that what we want to hear? Most probably no, we want to hear smoother 12kHz sine wave, therefore we reduced the higher frequency harmonics using low pass filter, to create smoother sine wave, with less higher frequency harmonics. That higher frequency harmonics, because we don't want them, we call them harmonic distortion.
  
 I have no idea how people hears BP as warmer filter. To me they are brighter.


----------



## diamondears

earfonia said:


> Bit-Perfect is put there as option to get the minimum time domain distortion (ringing). Harmonic distortion? Well this one difficult topic. If you see the first graph of 12kHz at 48kHz sampling rate, theoretically it is the correct reconstructed waveform from 48kHz sampling rate PCM, but still rather far from a perfect sine wave, due to the limitation of 48kHz PCM. Though it is a correct reconstructed waveform, is that what we want to hear? Most probably no, we want to hear smoother 12kHz sine wave, therefore we reduced the higher frequency harmonics using low pass filter, to create smoother sine wave, with less higher frequency harmonics. That higher frequency harmonics, because we don't want them, we call them harmonic distortion.
> 
> I have no idea how people hears BP as warmer filter. To me they are brighter.



Isn't it that timing domain delay/distortion is inversely proportionate to frequency domain distortion aka ringing? These two are the primary actors that trade-off off each other, right?


----------



## earfonia

diamondears said:


> Isn't it that timing domain delay/distortion is inversely proportionate to frequency domain distortion aka ringing? These two are the primary actors that trade-off off each other, right?


 
  
 I cannot simply answer it yes or no. In this case, for music playing, yes harmonic distortion and time domain distortion (ringing) trade-off each other. It is what PCM can offer, against what we want to hear (or see). It is simply what we ideally want to achieve, versus the limitation of the current available methods for analog to digital, back to analog conversion.
  
 Want more reading? This one is tough food to digest, but very good articles about DAC:
  
 http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue65/dac.htm
 http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue66/dsd.htm
  
 Just trust you ears, use what sound best for you, and enjoy the music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Rest assure, ifi micro iDSD is a very good DAC.


----------



## EVOLVIST

I really can't hear that much of difference between MP and BP in the iDSD.

It's funny because I used to own a Cambridge Audio DACMagic+, and I could plainly hear the difference between the filters, while I've read that many people can't.

Now with DSD I can hear the difference across the three analog filters in the iDSD micro, big time.

Note to self: must try between BP and MP with something other than 16/44.1


----------



## earfonia

evolvist said:


> I really can't hear that much of difference between MP and BP in the iDSD.
> 
> It's funny because I used to own a Cambridge Audio DACMagic+, and I could plainly hear the difference between the filters, while I've read that many people can't.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The difference will be less obvious with high res files, 24/88 and higher. Easier to hear the difference with standard resolution.


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> Don't get the graphs. Doesn't the sine waves show time domain distortion a, while square and triangle/sawtooth waves show amplitude or frequency distortion?
> 
> Cheers.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Actually, the reverse is true.
  
 What needs to be understood is that in Audio we use waveforms such as sine waves, square waves, sawtooth and triangular waves because they give us a reliably predictable signal and allow us to look at how the real signals differ drom the ideal, to draw conclusions about the behaviour of the device.
  
 We would hasten to add that so far, there is little proven correlation between specific measurements and their absolute (nummerical) results and sound quality - meaning we cannot at this point take any given number and point at it and say "make this number better and we get better sound".
  
 Nevertheless, measurements can tell us if something is grossly out, most crucially if what we get is something else to what we expect. In the case of the iDSD micro the tests performed by earfonia show it behaves extactly and precisely as designed, with no deviation from the design requirements.
  
 To dig a little deeper...a squarewave in theory has a perfectly square outline. So there are only two levels (maximum negative and maximum positive) and an infinite speed transition between the two states.
  
 So in this case any time domain distortion becomes visible as corruption of the waveform.
  
 A sine wave follows the mathematical "sine"  function and contains in effect an infinite number of signal levels between the maxima and minima, with nearly the slowest possible transition between them.
  
 So in this case time domain distortion as such (like from digital filters) is not visible. But amplitude domain distortion because of limited number of bits or because of limited number of samples becomes visible.
  
 Finally, sawtooth wave combines a slow ramp (similar to a sine) and an instant transition between maximum and minimum and can show both amplitude and time domain distortion as a result, but it does not (unlike sine and square) to view these in isolation.
  
 As all digital audio systems (including DSD) have limited number of samples and limited number of bits, any sinewave ot sawtooth ramp sampled for digital audio must turn into a "staircase" (DSD is no similar, but the so-called noiseshaping that is applied as part of the process blurrs this considerably, so that with DSD the noise dominates).
  
 The 12kHz at 48kHz sampling shows this "staircase" very extreme.
  
 If we use a (ringing) digital filter to interpolate between the datapoint from the source, we smooth out the stepped wave by adding "fake" or "synthesized"  extra datapoints and we make the steps in the "staircase" smaller in both amplitude and time domain. As a price for the apparent improvement, these filters distort the time domain to a very large degree1.
  
 So _eligere venenum_2.
  
 We can choose to not filter at all, this way the "sampling induced distortion" it left exactly as is (Bit-Perfect/Non-Oversampling).
  
 We may choose an extremely complex filter with huge numbers of taps and synthesize a supersmooth sinewave while shooting transient performance behind the ear, for example, a traditional 4096 Tap digital filter at 44.1kHz has a timedomain distortion that is literally 4096 samples long, the filter once excited by a single pulse will ring for 93 milliseconds, almost one tenth of a second!
  
 We may also choose any kind of filter inbetween.
  
 The key to remember here is though that both the original recording is distorted (by sampling at a finite, limited sample rate and number of bits) and that the filters while attempting to "cure" this distortion add massive distortion of their own.
  
 There are no "right" or "correct"  answers here (outside the realm of marketing anyway, where whatever a given vendor offers is "perfect"), except the one of making recordings at sample rates and numbers of bits high enough to make the compromise unneccesary (384kHz/24Bit aka DXD sounds like a sensible compromise, 176.4/192kHz may be "good enough" for most).
  
 So all answers are wrong, but how they are wrong differs and it matters to pick what is least wrong, subjectively to anyone person specifically and individually, hence _eligere venenum_.
  
1 For anyone interrested in more detail on digital filters, we recommend Ryohei Kusunoki three part article published in "Audio Technology Musen to Jikken" (MJ) magazine from Nov. 1996 through Dec. 1997, titled "To Confirm the Original 44.1kHz/16bit Format". For those who lack either access to backissues of MJ or do not read japanese, an edited english translation can be found at: http://www.sakurasystems.com/articles/Kusunoki.html
  
2 Literally "Elect your Poison", The origin is simply that since the mid-19th century "poison" has been slang for alcoholic drink (in Australia a pub was known as a "poison-shop". Dont you love the Aussies!). This probably refers to the Latin root "toxicum" (meaning "poison")of the word "intoxicate", or it may just be a reference ro the bad effects of excessive drinking. Thus the phrases "what's your poison?" "Pick your poison" and "choose your poison" arose naturally.


----------



## iFi audio

earfonia said:


> Thanks! I know that. To me all looks good and as expected.
> At average of 0.26 dB different between left and right channel, it is still considered low, and not something alarming, but I wish the tolerance could be tighten to 0.1 dB. Probably on iDSD Pro


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We can but try for the iDSD Pro but please consider:
  
 For reference, most transducers (headphones, speakers) rarely match better than 1dB! (we are sure you measured these puppies too for reference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 The 0.26dB difference is more than we normally see but within our real-world range. We use 1% tolerance MELF resistors in the analogue stage, so the analogue stage should guarantee better than +/- 1% gain in the real world, or 0.086dB.
  
 However, the DAC Chip used is specified by TI as having a maximum error of +/-3% between channels and/or ICs. So, including the DAC Chip and the analogue stage the worst case error is around +/-4%, or +/-0.35dB, most of which comes down to the tolerance levels to which the DAC Chips are manufactured.


----------



## iFi audio

earfonia said:


> I cannot simply answer it yes or no. In this case, for music playing, yes harmonic distortion and time domain distortion (ringing) trade-off each other. It is what PCM can offer, against what we want to hear (or see). It is simply what we ideally want to achieve, versus the limitation of the current available methods for analog to digital, back to analog conversion.
> 
> Want more reading? This one is tough food to digest, but very good articles about DAC:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Definitely very good articles, we would perhaps also like to add a piece that was published as sidebar to an Interview or our Chief Designer, Mr. Loesch at audiostream.com
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-thorsten-loesch-amrifi-audiostream-addendum-pcm-vs-dsd
  
 We highly recommend it for anyone suffering from _insomnia_ (though anyone with _earfonia_ can try too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We can but try for the iDSD Pro but please consider:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info!  Waiting to hear that ifi going to use 0.1% tolerance resistor in the analogue stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The reason for better accuracy is because I plan to use micro iDSD as my reference DAC for RMAA test, to test amplifiers. As for the ADC, I'm getting HRT LineStreamer+.
  
 I will re-measure those imbalance when my new scope arrive. Hopefully with more accurate measurement, mine has less then 0.26 dB imbalance.
  
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Definitely very good articles, we would perhaps also like to add a piece that was published as sidebar to an Interview or our Chief Designer, Mr. Loesch at audiostream.com
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very good article, very clear! Bookmarked! 
  
 Agree to this, quoted from the article:
 "Any sonic differences we hear with such converters between PCM and DSD releases tell us strictly about conversion algorithms, NOT about the formats."


----------



## Dobrescu George

@iFi audio Hello!
  
 I wanted to ask, how many taps are in your idsd at maximum post processing?
  
 I am a huge fan of your product, it seems like a very very nice thing, i can't wait for it to arrive in Romania, to give it a listen!


----------



## iFi audio

dobrescu george said:


> @iFi audio Hello!
> 
> I wanted to ask, how many taps are in your idsd at maximum post processing?
> 
> I am a huge fan of your product, it seems like a very very nice thing, i can't wait for it to arrive in Romania, to give it a listen!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Thank you for your kind words.
  
 - For DSD there is a 8 tap FIR analogue filter

 - For PCM Bitperfect there is a zero tap digital filter (no filter)

 - For PCM Standard filter there is a 91 (69+13+9) tap digital filter
  
 However, as the digtal filter actually cascades mutiple sections with different numbers of taps the actual number of co-efficients is much larger, likely on the order of around 8,000, so if the filter was not done cascaded (wich lowers group delay much), but as a single step filter we would be looking at an appx 8k filter.
  
 Translation - for us, more taps is not _that_ desirable.
  
  
*Having more taps than a plumber is not our preference* Why? Let us use a photography analogy.
  
 The number of taps add extra data points.
  
 Here it means more taps is like taking a given picture, say 640 X 480 Pixel (0.3 MP) and converting to a much larger number of pixels, say 2560 X 1920 Pixels (5 MP).
  
 Of course, If we just directly mapped the 640 X 480 picture into the new picture, one pixel would occupy a 4 X 4 pixel grid of the new picture, the picture would look blocky if the new picture was four times as wide and tall, but we could return directly to a 640 X 480 Image with no losses.
  
 If instead we take the 4 X 4 Image grid and apply mathematics to create smooth gradients, we will have smoother transitions (the smoother the more adjecent pixels are taken into account when calculating the gradient), but we have to throw away the original picture and if we were to convert the new picture down to 640 X 480, it would look distinctly different.
  
 In other words, we can never get the original back. Is the new version aestetically more pleasing?
  
 We did this a while over on the Crowd-Design thread...you can work out which is which 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 But if you wish to confirm:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



The left picture is the original (eg Bit-Perfect) and the right picture has been Photoshopped to the gills (eg: Non-Bit Perfect Filter)
  


  
  
Are there any sonic characetrics associated with the different filter approaches? In our internal auditions yes. The following is just based on our auditions and these are subjective results with different filters generally depend on the recordings. (please test for yourself too)
  
 Notwithstanding, we noticed common factors and observations.
  
 With a high number of taps filter the sound quality is constant among many recordings, not realistic, softened, not really aggressive, always pleasant, the filter imposes over the recording.
  
 With a low number of taps filter result is different, sometimes it seems a different recording! Sometimes sound quality is just different, with other recordings things are better, but sometimes worse. Usually voice and instrument timbres are more realistic and sound is more coherent.
  
 With no filter the charateristics of low number of taps filters are even more pronounced. Often realism is extremely heightened, but sound quality may appear a little raw, not always smooth or warm.


----------



## Dobrescu George

very very interesting read!
  
 i was very curious in what would the differences between idsd and hugo consits, as hugo has a very very high number of taps.
  
 This explains everything. 
  
  I am very very interested by these developments! Have a very nice day, and thank you very much for the very precious data provided. now i know what to look after when buying.


----------



## GrahamL

@iFi audio

Do you have an estimate when the latest beta firmware will complete testing and be made generally available please? The changelog suggests this new version may be very useful!

Cheers


----------



## iFi audio

grahaml said:


> @iFi audio
> 
> Do you have an estimate when the latest beta firmware will complete testing and be made generally available please? The changelog suggests this new version may be very useful!
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Just checked with the technical guys.
  
 End of this week/early next week is when it will be available to all.
  
 We try our utmost to test, test and re-test before things get released into the wild.


----------



## GrahamL

ifi audio said:


> End of this week/early next week is when it will be available to all.


 
  
 Grand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Will look forward to it.
  
 Thanks for the reply...


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Nice combo to my ears.
  
 iBasso DX50 with digital coax cable to ifi micro iDSD


----------



## gr8soundz

iBasso has the nicest cables that you can never buy separately.


----------



## EVOLVIST

ifi audio said:


>


 
  
 I'll take both then. The one on the right, and the one on the left with the perfect bits.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I actually kind of preffer the one on the right, adding too much post processing can proove to be harmfull.
  
 I also, tried to see if it can be done damage free. Applying Lancosz algorythms on a picture can effectively make it bigger by much, and it looks quite well. On the other hand the original is sharper when zoomed.
  
 After thinking a lot about it..
  
 I must apologize @iFi audio for trying to compare idsd to chord hugo. After going to much lengths, i now understand the truth. Hugo and idsd both sound Awesome, but they sound different, because they approach music in different ways, and i carry great respect for both products, both are pieces of art created by very skilled engeneers.
  
 About idsd, it is even more amazing that the quality of the components is comprised in such a low price [i had done my reading about it, and wow]..
  
 I hope that the sound will amaze me as much as the technical part has!
  
 cheers!


----------



## citraian

@iFi audio - Is it possible to use optical in and usb in alternately without removing any of the cables? Let's say that I connect my TV via optical and a streamer like Aries via USB. Will it be possible to use optical in when Aries is connected if Aries isn't playing any music? And then auto switch to USB when I play something on Aries?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

gr8soundz said:


> iBasso has the nicest cables that you can never buy separately.


 

 You can, look at vendors for custom cables. I get soon a smaller mini to RCA coax cable from a custom cable guy which make for me a lot of good cables. The iBasso cable is great no question , but to large for my taste.


----------



## kugino

my iDSD is almost finished with repairs. avatar acoustics anticipates they'll ship it out in a couple of days and I'll have it back by early next week. I'm looking forward to it because I'm picking up a pair of he-6 tomorrow and I have an auralic Taurus arriving on Thursday.

I'll be able to test a few things that i haven't been able to do yet: see how the iDSD fares as a DAC connected to the Taurus...and see if/whether the iDSD can drive the he-6. I know ifi made it a point to mention that in turbo mode it has enough power to drive the he-6, so it'll be interesting to see how well it handles that job. 

I'm also in the market for a mid-fi stand alone DAC but I want to see if the iDSD can perhaps play that tole in my desk system.


----------



## Triodemode

kugino said:


> my iDSD is almost finished with repairs. avatar acoustics anticipates they'll ship it out in a couple of days and I'll have it back by early next week. I'm looking forward to it because I'm picking up a pair of he-6 tomorrow and I have an auralic Taurus arriving on Thursday.
> 
> I'll be able to test a few things that i haven't been able to do yet: see how the iDSD fares as a DAC connected to the Taurus...and see if/whether the iDSD can drive the he-6. I know ifi made it a point to mention that in turbo mode it has enough power to drive the he-6, so it'll be interesting to see how well it handles that job.
> 
> I'm also in the market for a mid-fi stand alone DAC but I want to see if the iDSD can perhaps play that tole in my desk system.


 

 I suspect that you will find the iDSD micro to be an outstanding standalone DAC using the RCA output in direct mode.  Even though I have no worries that the micro will drive your he-6 in turbo mode, I am really curious to read your thoughts comparing the sound signature between your Taurus and the micro's headphone section.


----------



## iFi audio

citraian said:


> @iFi audio - Is it possible to use optical in and usb in alternately without removing any of the cables? Let's say that I connect my TV via optical and a streamer like Aries via USB. Will it be possible to use optical in when Aries is connected if Aries isn't playing any music? And then auto switch to USB when I play something on Aries?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 In principle, yes.
  
 If there is no USB audio actually playing (but with a USB Cable attached) the iDSD micro will automatically select SPDIF and check if there is any signal, if so it will play this.
  
 That said, some Linux based Computers ALWAYS play a signal (even if it is actually silence) so the iDSD micro never gets the "no music on USB" condition and cannot switch over. In this case the iDSD micro will also never go to sleep. There is no such issue on OSX and Windows.
  
 So the more pertinent question is how the USB part works of the vendor of your player box.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## jagu

The eagle has landed! Nice portable setup with WIMP HIFI (aka Tidal), LG G3 and JH13 Pro! All I need is a custom otg cable for an even smoother setup!


----------



## rickyleelee

dobrescu george said:


> I actually kind of preffer the one on the right, adding too much post processing can proove to be harmfull.
> 
> I also, tried to see if it can be done damage free. Applying Lancosz algorythms on a picture can effectively make it bigger by much, and it looks quite well. On the other hand the original is sharper when zoomed.
> 
> ...




bro, you mean the picture on the left? like Evologist, I wish too I could have both. but that would empty my pocket in no time.


----------



## plakat

rickyleelee said:


> bro, you mean the picture on the left? like Evologist, I wish too I could have both. but that would empty my pocket in no time.


 

 Ah, those pictures aren't *that* expensive to license  Plus you could license the original and do the other one yourself... not sure if it would be a good thing if that worked in other settings as well...
  
 Too bad that the firmware update is only supported on Windows machines... did anybody try that with a virtualized Windows setup like under VMWare on OS X?


----------



## Franatic

Hi ifiers,
  
 I am having a very good audio tweak-week for my desktop micro idsd:
  
 1) I've gotten the new Jplay6 beta program with a nice SQ++
 2) Added a PPA usb V4 card. This card has an OXCO which really has a smooth analog sound.
 3) I finally dumped Jriver(the bits are bits Jplay-ban stuff was a "bit" much) and switched to HQPlayer. I love this player and it is soooo right for the micro. I am  upsampling dsd to 256(quad). It is nice to see the blue lite shine on the micro. I am still playing with settings and hope to find a way to play octo-speed.
  
 This micro is so impressive playing this 4xdsd. It is hard to describe the sonics other than to say it is magnificent. Smooth, relaxed, expanded, holographic..........and natural.
  
 Never have any of my improvements been bottlenecked or hindered in any way by the tremendous little overperforming micro, always presenting its direct output with clarity and transparency....Bravo!
  
 Really makes me wonder what that idsd pro would be like...put me on the waiting list 
  
 Then I will put this micro in a portable set-up.


----------



## TheAttorney

franatic said:


> 3) I finally dumped Jriver(the bits are bits Jplay-ban stuff was a "bit" much) and switched to HQPlayer. I love this player and it is soooo right for the micro. I am  upsampling dsd to 256(quad). It is nice to see the blue lite shine on the micro. I am still playing with settings and hope to find a way to play octo-speed.


 
  
 Could you elaborate please on HQPlayer vs JRiver?
 I'm using JRiver MC20 to convert on the fly ripped-from-CD-FLAC files to DSD (4xDSD is about the limit before stuttering starts, yet to fully try all the buffer/sampling options). And this sounds better than staying in PCM mode, despite the laptop's processer working increasingly harder as the DSD sample rate goes up.
  
 In what ways can HQPlayer improve on this? Is it by inherently better SQ with any option, or does it allow more options?
  
 JRiver on Windows doesn't seem to give options of converting to DXD, so haven't tried that yet (or even understand whether that's even possible).


----------



## Franatic

theattorney said:


> Could you elaborate please on HQPlayer vs JRiver?
> I'm using JRiver MC20 to convert on the fly ripped-from-CD-FLAC files to DSD (4xDSD is about the limit before stuttering starts, yet to fully try all the buffer/sampling options). And this sounds better than staying in PCM mode, despite the laptop's processer working increasingly harder as the DSD sample rate goes up.
> 
> In what ways can HQPlayer improve on this? Is it by inherently better SQ with any option, or does it allow more options?
> ...


 
 Where Jriver is a multimedia player and mid-fi audio player that developed DSD capability as a later addition, HQPlayer was developed for this. It is high quality audio player with an impressive array of filters and upsampling algorithms that allow you to maximize your dacs capabilities. When paired with the micro idsd's advanced dsd capabilities, the possible setting combinations you can try are mind boggling. This player is a tweakers paradise. I have just begun to figure out a few settings and look forward to trying many different combos. What I have come up with plays quad dsd at a very high quality. I will continue to try more combos and see if it will successfully upsample to octo-speed. 
  
 I have played pcm natively and upsampled with very good results. I will try this weekend converting my pcm to an upsampled dsd format. I will post results on that venture.
  
 DXD is 352khz, 24 bit PCM. I think you can upsample to that in Jriver. My results of upsampling in Jriver were not so impressive and my on the fly conversion to dsd was not good at all.
  
 Jriver's library capabilities are so much better, but it can not compete with HQplayer as a pure high quality HD audio player.


----------



## jagu

Got my micro this week and tried DSD for the first time i my life. I downloaded from Oppo's site, "Vision of Her" by David Elias in DSD64-2.8 Mhz format in pure DSD recording and could do an A/B comparison to the same song in WIMP HIFI (aka Tidal) in FLAC. Holy Moses! I just took a trip to Nirvana! DSD just killed flac! Flac sounds flat and dull in comparison at least with this song and of course the flac version could be a "bad" one but nevertheless...This was a real game changer for me and from now on, life will not be the same 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How can I go back to flac?


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just checked with the technical guys.
> 
> ...


 
 firmware for what, i am sorry am i missing out on some news here
  
 is that a new product or a firmware update for idsd micro?


----------



## jagu

sound eq said:


> firmware for what, i am sorry am i missing out on some news here
> 
> is that a new product or a firmware update for idsd micro?


 
 update for da micro.


----------



## Sound Eq

jagu said:


> update for da micro.


 
 and how do u update the micro, i did not know that micro can be updated by firnwares


----------



## jagu

sound eq said:


> and how do u update the micro, i did not know that micro can be updated by firnwares


 
 Here are the instructions: http://ifi-audio.com/3-steps-micro-idsd-firmware-upgrade/


----------



## iFi audio

jagu said:


> Got my micro this week and tried DSD for the first time i my life. I downloaded from Oppo's site, "Vision of Her" by David Elias in DSD64-2.8 Mhz format in pure DSD recording and could do an A/B comparison to the same song in WIMP HIFI (aka Tidal) in FLAC. Holy Moses! I just took a trip to Nirvana! DSD just killed flac! Flac sounds flat and dull in comparison at least with this song and of course the flac version could be a "bad" one but nevertheless...This was a real game changer for me and from now on, life will not be the same
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 David Elias (whom we know personally and is a super nice guy) made his recording at the Super Audio Center in Boulder, CO.
  
 Hence when you listen on the nano/micro iDSD, you listen to a native DSD recording on native DSD playback. The PCM (flac file) came from DSD and as such has been transcoded before it arrives at your ears.
  
 Now you know why we make a big song and dance (no pun intended) about keep the chain _native_ all the way through,
  
 PCM recording > PCM playback.
  
 DSD recording > DSD playback.
This is grossly simplified but you get the gist of what we are striving to achieve.




  
  
 Knowing what we know, we are actually format agnostic.
  
 We love lager (PCM) and we love bitter (DSD). If it has alcohol (music) in it, just pour it down our necks.


----------



## bavinck

ifi audio said:


> Knowing what we know, we are actually format agnostic.
> 
> We love lager (PCM) and we love bitter (DSD). If it has alcohol (music) in it, just pour it down our necks.




This makes me want to buy everything you make and will make!


----------



## iFi audio

bavinck said:


> This makes me want to buy everything you make and will make!


 
  
 Thank you but you haven't seen our whisky collection in the AMR Showroom.
  
 Now that would blow you away much more than our technology.
  
 This is our current favourite:
  

  

 This is the officier supplier to AMR/iFi. So we dont mind giving them a plug. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/glengyle/kilkerran-work-in-progress-6th-release-sherry-wood-whisky/?srh=1
  
  
Kilkerran WIP 6th Sherry Bottling Note The 6th release of the Kilkerran Work In Progress series follows the style set in the previous release of actually being two whiskies! Both are single malt Scotch whisky, though one has been matured in bourbon casks and one has been matured in Sherry casks. This is the latter, the seductive Sherry cask-matured Kilkerran single malt.
  
  
  
 It is eminently reasonable at £36 a bottle. But the scary thing is this whisky is extremely smooth 'n seductive. Fifity Shades got nothing on the Kilkerran WIP.
  
 We challenge anyone to have one "nip" and NOT want more. When the tunes are flowing this whisky is a gushing. We can neck one of these bottles in one listening session. Scary.


----------



## bavinck

You throwing in a bottle with orders for amps? hehe.
  
 I think whiskey is a better analogy to your products than fine beer, and I love both way too much!! (beer and whiskey that is).
  
 This month I am buying my X5, next month I hope to get your micro idsd.....maybe with a bottle of whiskey.........


----------



## audiotweaker

franatic said:


> Where Jriver is a multimedia player and mid-fi audio player that developed DSD capability as a later addition, HQPlayer was developed for this. It is high quality audio player with an impressive array of filters and upsampling algorithms that allow you to maximize your dacs capabilities. When paired with the micro idsd's advanced dsd capabilities, the possible setting combinations you can try are mind boggling. This player is a tweakers paradise. I have just begun to figure out a few settings and look forward to trying many different combos. What I have come up with plays quad dsd at a very high quality. I will continue to try more combos and see if it will successfully upsample to octo-speed.
> 
> I have played pcm natively and upsampled with very good results. I will try this weekend converting my pcm to an upsampled dsd format. I will post results on that venture.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree that HQPlayer has superior up-/re-sampling capabilities but the lame UI and lack of library functionality coupled with the relatively high price tag makes it a tweakers tool only.  Jussi really needs to improve this product to make it more user friendly IMHO.


----------



## tf1216

earfonia said:


> Today I played around with the filter settings of iDSD micro, monitored by simple USB oscilloscope (Velleman PCSU200). So line output of the micro iDSD goes direct to USB oscilloscope input (1 Mohm input impedance).
> 
> Line Output setting: Direct
> Power Mode: Normal
> ...


 
  
 This link does a nice job explaining in slightly more detail what we are seeing (hearing) with the different filter types.
 http://www.mother-of-tone.com/timeband.htm


----------



## drews

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> In principle, yes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately I see this behavior (SPDIF is ignored when USB is connected but not selected) on OS X if I'm running BitPerfect or Audirvana+.
  
 Drew


----------



## Sound Eq

jagu said:


> Here are the instructions: http://ifi-audio.com/3-steps-micro-idsd-firmware-upgrade/



 


i was wondering since the firmware can be updated can there be a possibility of changing sound signature by changing doing changes in firmware


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> i was wondering since the firmware can be updated can there be a possibility of changing sound signature by changing doing changes in firmware




:blink:


----------



## Dobrescu George

theoretically it should be possible, but in practice only ifi can do it as DAC programming is extremely complex. this or you fiind something that uses the same DAC and try to implement, but again, extemely hard to do in practice, as this part of program code is usually encrypted.


----------



## JuleZ3C

Quote:


technobear said:


> sound eq said:
> 
> 
> > i was wondering since the firmware can be updated can there be a possibility of changing sound signature by changing doing changes in firmware


 


dobrescu george said:


> theoretically it should be possible, but in practice only ifi can do it as DAC programming is extremely complex. this or you fiind something that uses the same DAC and try to implement, but again, extemely hard to do in practice, as this part of program code is usually encrypted.


 
  
 Ahaha
 Only (if only!) on Head-Fi !






   
 &




 indeed !


----------



## AudioMarc

I am new to the forum and since yesterday I have the ifi ( which sounds amazing by the way ), but I have a weird problem on two computers.
  
 I installed everything ( drivers and all ), but the iFi does't connect to the computer with the blue USB cable. I hear the windows sound that it found a usb device but 9 out of 10 times I can't see it in the system. When it does find it in the system a weird problem occurs. I cant play songs from Tidal. When I click play: nothing happens, and the weirdest thing is: when I try YouTube, it buffers and doesnt play either ( I clicked the play button guys haha ). When I delete the drivers and use the USB for charging and use optical in/ out from my computer, it works great and sounds amazing. 
  
 Am I doing something stupid over here or is there something wrong with the iFi? Same problem occurs on two computers.
  
 Would appreciate any input.


----------



## jagu

@Audiomarc Audiomarc, a couple of questions first:
- did you install the drivers from ifi? The one that pops up with Windows is not to be used. 
- I had to manually change to ifi in the sound settings (don't know what it is called in the English Windows version) the first time. Have you tried that?


----------



## JuleZ3C

Have you declared the micro as the primary sound device (in the windows sound settings)?


----------



## technobear

This sounds like a dodgy USB cable/plug. There have been one or two of these. I find the blue lead a little sensitive to movement sometimes. Turn the iDSD OFF and try plugging and unplugging the lead a few times to clean the contacts. This may help. Some users have wrapped tape around the plug to give it a more secure fit.


----------



## Franatic

audiotweaker said:


> I agree that HQPlayer has superior up-/re-sampling capabilities but the lame UI and lack of library functionality coupled with the relatively high price tag makes it a tweakers tool only.  Jussi really needs to improve this product to make it more user friendly IMHO.


 

 I totally agree about the lame UI and even lamer library tools.
  
 I would still recommend this player to serious audiophiles. IMO, the drawbacks are outweighed by the superior playback capabilities. I am fully using it's up/resampling functions and they work better than any other player I've tried. I'm playing PCM at 768 khz and DSD at Quad speed. The idsd is excelling in playing these ultra high speeds.
  
 Another bonus of this player is its ability to seamlessly interface with the Jplay driver, allowing use of minimal buffers and Jplay's most extreme engines.
  
 As ifi said, converting PCM-DSD or DSD-PCM is not beneficial, even in HQplayer.
  
 Let's hope Jussi improves the UI of this player.....and maybe adds support for .ape files.
  
 I currently use Bug Head Emperor to play my .ape files. If anyone is looking for a free player, Bug Head Emperor has high quality playback...and a lame UI.
 http://oryaaaaa.world.coocan.jp/bughead/


----------



## bavinck

Using an X5 as portable what cable would I need to connect digital coaxial to the micro idsd?


----------



## ClieOS

bavinck said:


> Using an X5 as portable what cable would I need to connect digital coaxial to the micro idsd?


 

 You will need a cable with 3.5mm mono plug to RCA-male plug, similar to the stock cable that comes with X5, but with a male RCA instead of a female RCA. If you don't bother to find another cable, you can get a RCA male-to-male adapter and use it with the FiiO cable, thought it will make it protrude a bit more. Alternatively, you can find a custom cable maker to make one for you.
  




  
 One on the top is that one I made for my X5.
 One on the bottom is the FiiO cable.


----------



## TheAttorney

franatic said:


> I totally agree about the lame UI and even lamer library tools [of HQPlayer].
> 
> I would still recommend this player to serious audiophiles. IMO, the drawbacks are outweighed by the superior playback capabilities. I am fully using it's up/resampling functions and they work better than any other player I've tried. I'm playing PCM at 768 khz and DSD at Quad speed. The idsd is excelling in playing these ultra high speeds.


 
  
 I've now got HQPlayer on free trial.
 It took me ages to get past the appalling user interface to even play any file at all. The developers of this must of felt that GUI stands for Get Users Irritated. And the user manual is only useful once you've already worked out the answers. But after I had stopped cursing and calmed down, I had to concede that the SQ, with any PCM or DSD setting, was noticeably better than JRiver at it's best settings. I've settled for the higher speeds as above.
  
 So I no longer feel the need to convert my redbook files to DSD, as I used to with JRiver. And so I'll probably stump up the cash to buy HQPlayer, and keep JRiver to organise my libraries.
 My ifi iDSD feels like it's just had an SE super deluxe upgrade, which in the olden days would have cost hundreds, if not thousands, of bucks. And this still with the stock blue cable.
  
 One remaining issue to sort out: HQPlayer, like many apps, doesn't react well to the ultra high resolution QHD touch screen of my new ultrabook. Any suggestions to Display scaling/sizing will be gratefully received.


----------



## bavinck

So I hopped on this hqplayer bandwagon trial too To confirm, I am playing a 44100/16/2 file and below that it says poly-sinc   tpdf    96000    pcm. This is using a modi 1. Does this mean it is upsampling the file to 96kHz?


----------



## bavinck

BTW, I didn't find the user interface difficult to use at all. Much more like fb2k than jriver, but was fine for me anyway. I can see how it would be irritating coming from jriver though.


----------



## Franatic

Try poly-sinc/ ns5/ 768000  It makes PCM sound like dsd.


----------



## bavinck

My dacdac onlyonly doesdoes 96k.


----------



## Franatic

Bummer.....you should get an idsd micro.......that's $500 well spent and it plays every audio file that I know of....and ones that have not been made yet!
 Or wait for the idsd pro. That one is gonna be the end game for me.


----------



## bavinck

franatic said:


> Bummer.....you should get an idsd micro.......that's $500 well spent and it plays every audio file that I know of....and ones that have not been made yet!
> Or wait for the idsd pro. That one is gonna be the end game for me.



Buying one next week


----------



## jagu

I have some trouble when trying to play WiMP Hifi (aka Tidal) to get the micro to function properly. I have a LG G3 with Lollipop. I've tried both airplane mode, wimp offline and micro on before connecting to the phone. Sometimes it works just fine, sometimes not. When it's not working I hear cracks when trying to play WiMP. I just can't figure out which is the best way to get the micro working with WIMP. I have UAPP with no problems at all. I do succeed to get things rocking but it's randomly. Any ideas? 

I just tapatalked!


----------



## the-kraken

Stopped by a boutique audio shop today wth my ifi micro and had a listen to the LCD-2f, LCD-XC, and LCD-X (someone a few pages back asked how well the micro idsd would drive Audeze cans). The ifi had no problems driving any of the three in normal mode, and in turbo the low-end firmed up appreciably on the X and XC. 

I hadn't heard the LCD-2 since before the fazor was introduced, and well... I'm not a fan of the newest incarnation. While the ifi drives 'em well - they aren't as fun as I remember the LCD-2.r2's. The LCD-XC is pretty darn good via the ifi micro, but I couldn't push it quite as far as the LCD-X. I was able to get really great bass slam and depth from the X and the micro. Both X and XC had great detail and presence, and it's pretty easy to recommend a look at the micro if you need a portable solution for Audeze cans.


----------



## EVOLVIST

franatic said:


> Bummer.....you should get an idsd micro.......that's $500 well spent and it plays every audio file that I know of....and ones that have not been made yet!
> Or wait for the idsd pro. That one is gonna be the end game for me.




Welcome to the dark side, brother. Welcome.


----------



## Franatic

evolvist said:


> Welcome to the dark side, brother. Welcome.


 

 I'll have you know I've named my system "My Precious"............and Precious needs the idsd pro.


----------



## bavinck

Is the pro going to be the idsd but without a battery?


----------



## john57

No battery for certain. AC powered


----------



## bavinck

So the upside of that would be reduced noise?


----------



## bavinck

franatic said:


> Try poly-sinc/ ns5/ 768000  It makes PCM sound like dsd.




Tried your suggestion of ns5 but a max of 96k. Either I am hearing a wicked placebo effect (which is possible) or this sound is a marked improvement on 44.1k put of fb2k. Am I imagining things?


----------



## Franatic

HQplayer is that good. Wait until you get the micro and you can do 768000. PCM will sound like DSD.
  
 Try NS4, it is more suited for 96000. Read the manual, it explains what each filter does and when to use it.


----------



## bavinck

OK, ok. I'll read the manual I'll try ns4 too. Now that I have changed it I forgot, was ns4 default? 

I am super excited to get a micro. Never heard dsd, and have no idea how to get those files. But, it exists and I read on headfi it's better so I gotta try it lol


----------



## bavinck

Also, anyone know how long the trial lasts?


----------



## osiris1

bavinck said:


> Also, anyone know how long the trial lasts?


 
 30 days


----------



## kurb1980

Yup HQPLAYER with micro a perfect match! I love the DSD sound with HQPLAYER and micro. I found a sweet spot on this DAC for red book using 7th order modulation at 5.6gHz or 6.1gHz for 48kHz integers.


----------



## Triodemode

I have found that Foobar2000 sounds fantastic converting Redbook 16/44.1 and 24/88.2khz files to DSD256 selecting non floating Type B or D method of PCM to DSD (the music is much more natural and organic).  Has anyone else tried this configuration?
  
 https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-2/


----------



## TheAttorney

franatic said:


> HQplayer is that good. Wait until you get the micro and you can do 768000. PCM will sound like DSD.
> 
> Try NS4, it is more suited for 96000. Read the manual, it explains what each filter does and when to use it.


 

 For newcomers like me to HQPlayer, I found that the HQPlayer "Kick-Start Guide" (google it) was best to get started. Much better start point than the official User Guide or Quick Start Guide.
 Once I understood the designer's eccentric idea of what a "transport" is, it made more sense - still not great, but made more sense.
  
 My recent enthusiastic comments on HQPlayer+iDSD sound quality (vs JRiver) were all based on using my Senn HD600s for all comparisons. The HD600s seem to pair really well with the iDSD, even on the Economy setting, so this along with my ultrabook is a great portable combination for me.
  
 However, when I tried above, in Direct Mode, as external DAC to my main rig of Nagra CDC (£12k integrated CD player) -> BHSE -> Stax SR009, the Nagra's internal DAC was easily more natural and lifelike on the same redbook tracks. Not surprising maybe considering the huge price difference. I wonder how AMRs new uprated 777SE DAC will compare in the same test? This is still early days for me on computer-based high end sound, but I've learned a lot in the last couple of weeks.


----------



## Franatic

HQ Quick start guide
  
http://soundgalleries.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/HQPlayer.pdf


----------



## guido

ifi audio said:


> Thank you but you haven't seen our whisky collection in the AMR Showroom.
> 
> Now that would blow you away much more than our technology.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Ok, I just ordered an iDSD micro from Amazon.fr and 2 bottles of Kilkerran from an online shop here in Italy ...I hope they arrive simultaneously!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Weird how much cheaper whiskey is here compared to the UK...


----------



## bavinck

franatic said:


> Try poly-sinc/ ns5/ 768000  It makes PCM sound like dsd.




Why not convert to dsd?


----------



## kurb1980

bavinck said:


> Why not convert to dsd?


 

 It's really a matter of preference I prefer the sound profile of DSD I have done comparisions of both the DXD and DSD on the micro both sound good but to my ears DSD sounds great when upsampling in HQplayer.  I find that upsampling to 768kHz x16 times 48khz sounds a little lean and not as airy in comparision.  While not sounding bad by an stretch of the word its just the small nuances in the details I am noticing.  Its almost like having 3 or 4 DAC's when using the HQplayer you can sit and play around with the filters and modulators for hours on end and each will give you a different sound.


----------



## Franatic

bavinck said:


> Why not convert to dsd?


 

 I've tried converting PCM to DSD and the results were not so impressive. It sounds much more like dsd to me when you upsample to 768000 and play PCM natively. It has that smooth natural flow that to me sounds like real music, not a digitally recreated image.
  
 The bottom line is it is a subjective experience. Play around and find what you think sounds best. Different people like and hear different things. It is system dependent AND person dependent. What is nice about HQPlayer is that there are so many different filters, algorithms and sample rates to play with that will alter how it sounds.
  
 You are going to have much more fun when you get your micro and you can play around with those ridiculously high sample rates.
  
 As always, YRMV. You will find many different opinions and experiences here. Yours is the one that counts.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Bit perfect is the answer...


----------



## iFi audio

franatic said:


> You are going to have much more fun when you get your micro and you can play around with those ridiculously high sample rates.


 
   
Hi,

  
 Besides the most obvious reason, there is another reason why we broke the Octa-DSD512 and PCM768 barrier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Clue: similar lines to what you and other have discussed about upsampling.


----------



## Sound Eq

will there be a new firmware released soon


----------



## fordski

sound eq said:


> will there be a new firmware released soon


 

 Good question! Now I'm all setup after having spent the past couple of days learning how to setup bootcamp and windows on my MAC just to do the upgrades. iFi confirmed with me that firmware upgrades can be completed on a Mac running windows on bootcamp or parallels.


----------



## kugino

just got my iDSD back from avatar acoustics...one channel went out so they replaced the pcb, I think. recently picked up an auralic Taurus so I'm interested to see how the iDSD fares as a DAC. oh, also got an iusb as well, so want to see if it makes any difference...


----------



## thinblueline

kugino said:


> just got my iDSD back from avatar acoustics...one channel went out so they replaced the pcb, I think. recently picked up an auralic Taurus so I'm interested to see how the iDSD fares as a DAC. oh, also got an iusb as well, so want to see if it makes any difference...




I am quite interested in your opinion and feedback on the exact setup you mentioned. I might try the same setup/combination with HD800 sometime down the road after I complete my new speaker project.


----------



## Franatic

kugino said:


> just got my iDSD back from avatar acoustics...one channel went out so they replaced the pcb, I think. recently picked up an auralic Taurus so I'm interested to see how the iDSD fares as a DAC. oh, also got an iusb as well, so want to see if it makes any difference...


 

 You will love it as a dac. The dac is the best part of the micro. I hope you got a gemini cable to go with the iusb, they match up perfectly.
  
 With your Taurus and the Senn HD800s that's gonna sound sweet! I hope you have better luck this time with the micro.


----------



## EVOLVIST

kugino said:


> just got my iDSD back from avatar acoustics...one channel went out so they replaced the pcb, I think. recently picked up an auralic Taurus so I'm interested to see how the iDSD fares as a DAC. oh, also got an iusb as well, so want to see if it makes any difference...




How come they just didn't send you a new one, or was it not DOA?


----------



## kugino

evolvist said:


> How come they just didn't send you a new one, or was it not DOA?


 

 oh, i've had it since last summer...one of the contest winners. a few weeks ago the right channel spontaneously went out, so ifi said to send it in for repairs...took about a week once it arrived at avatar acoustics. glad to have it back, though


----------



## kugino

thinblueline said:


> I am quite interested in your opinion and feedback on the exact setup you mentioned. I might try the same setup/combination with HD800 sometime down the road after I complete my new speaker project.


 
  
 sounds good. i will try to post my thoughts/impressions. i've been listening tonight via iusb/idsd/auralic/he-6 and so far things sound good, but not great. some stuff seems a big closed in...don't know if it's the he-6 or something else that's giving off that vibe, but tomorrow i'll do more listening with the hd800 and see how that goes. 


franatic said:


> You will love it as a dac. The dac is the best part of the micro. I hope you got a gemini cable to go with the iusb, they match up perfectly.
> 
> With your Taurus and the Senn HD800s that's gonna sound sweet! I hope you have better luck this time with the micro.


 
 i did not get the gemini cable, but do have a wiredworld starlight silver cable that looks pretty nice. i'll compare it to my trusty belkin gold ...the taurus is quite a beast and it does sound pretty amazing. i have so high-res tracks that sound pretty lousy - i blame the mastering. but good stuff sounds really good, as it should. i have three flagship headphones and only want to keep two (th900/hd800/he6)...i'm pretty sure i'll keep the th900 so it's between the hd800 and he6. not sure which way i'm leaning at the moment, though.


----------



## MattTCG

Warning...tl:dr
  
 I've had the micro idsd for several weeks now and have to come to have a deep appreciation for the sweet, luscious sounding DAC portion and also for the versatility of this diminutive device. What is really compelling for me is the wonderful sounding DAC though. It just has an amazing "analogue" and natural presentation with music. I've owned many dacs from the modi to the NAD m51 and MANY in between. I have enjoyed the micro DAC as much as anything. So much so that it seems to have taken a permanent position in my main headphone rig. 
  
 Yesterday, I joined a friend for a small get together and listening session. My friend, Joe, is starting a new business selling headphone and gear right here in Atlanta GA...www.headphoneaudiophile.com  Joe is a great guy and I sincerely wish him the very best with his new business venture. 
  
 So Joe and I are going through some of the new gears listening to different combinations and just having a grand ole time. Joe suggest that I give the hd800 a try with the ifi stack (micro, ican, itube and iusb). If I didn't giggle out loud I'm quite sure that I did in my head. I mean come on, this is the hd800. I've owned it twice before and have chased the upstream gear for this headphone ad nauseum to get it to sound "musical." I said to myself, "self...it will take much deeper pockets than an ifi stack for the beast that is the hd800." 
  
 Anyway, to appease my gracious host Joe, I plugged in the hd800 to the ifi stack. Um...now wait a minute...what the crap. This sounds really really nice. Good balance and imaging. The hd800 trademark sound stage is represented nicely, but there's something more. There is some meat on this bone. Damn, the mids are sounding sweet and have a nice warmth. And the bass, it's actually bumping nicely with some decent kick. 
  
 I feel an irrepressible Cheshire grin creeping around the corners of my mouth. The hd800 now sounds wonderful. The whole package is here now...a warm and musical hd800. Many of us have been speculating on a new offering from Sennheiser soon. Given how long these products have been on the market and Sennheisers 70th birthday and all. Some of us have wished for a revision to the hd800 with more musicality and bass presence. I thought to myself as I listened to the hd800 on the ifi stack, if Sennheiser released a new hp that sounded this good, it would be a massive success. But they already have and I'm listening to it now. It just needed the right setup. 
  
 AND THEN....AND THEN...as I sat there soaking in the suculent juices offered by this delicious setup, Joe walked by and casually flipped the switch on for xbass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  You just don't use xbass with the hd800!! That's like farting at a wine tasting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And it was at this precise moment when I'm quite sure that I wet myself. (not really, well I don't think so). What I am sure of though, is that the hd800 belted out the punchiest, tightest, kicks like a pissed off mule sub bass that I've ever heard. It was the combination of punch and tightness that really got me. I will never look down my nose at the ifi again. They has accomplished a rare feet indeed and taken an impressively technical headphone and made it sound truly beautiful. 
  
 If anyone is struggling to get the hd800 to sound musical, I strongly encourage you to have a listen to the ifi stack.
  
 Well done team ifi...


----------



## Dobrescu George

so you used idsd as DAC and ican as amp and isub before power the idsd?...


----------



## Dobrescu George

matttcg said:


> Warning...tl:dr
> 
> I've had the micro idsd for several weeks now and have to come to have a deep appreciation for the sweet, luscious sounding DAC portion and also for the versatility of this diminutive device. What is really compelling for me is the wonderful sounding DAC though. It just has an amazing "analogue" and natural presentation with music. I've owned many dacs from the modi to the NAD m51 and MANY in between. I have enjoyed the micro DAC as much as anything. So much so that it seems to have taken a permanent position in my main headphone rig.
> 
> ...


 
 sorry i meant to write that post as a response to yours. what estack most exactly had you used to make hd800 sound good?


----------



## MattTCG

dobrescu george said:


> sorry i meant to write that post as a response to yours. what estack most exactly had you used to make hd800 sound good?


 
  
 I'm not sure exactly how much of the stack it takes to get the response from the hd800. I'll listened with the "entire" ifi stack...all four pieces plus the gemini cable. I'll do some testing to find out exactly what pieces are necessary. It may be that it takes all of them.


----------



## rickyleelee

dobrescu george said:


> sorry i meant to write that post as a response to yours. what estack most exactly had you used to make hd800 sound good?




Bro, trust your own ears and listen for yourself. ifi or not, never buying that other people recommend.


----------



## MattTCG

rickyleelee said:


> Bro, trust your own ears and listen for yourself. ifi or not, never buying that other people recommend.


 
  
 That's good advice. But unfortunately many us don't have the luxury of auditioning first and must rely on advice and reviews to make decisions. When it's an option, always try it before you buy it.


----------



## rickyleelee

matttcg said:


> That's good advice. But unfortunately many us don't have the luxury of auditioning first and must rely on advice and reviews to make decisions. When it's an option, always try it before you buy it.




No arguments from here. But in Asia, we get to try first. I went through a lot of gear before settling on what I have now. At the very least, worth reading the informative posts iFi and other manufacturers make. Don't just rely on the ears of others. Do you own investigations. You may not like the bitperfect. you might want to upsample to the nines.


----------



## Edric Li

Had anybody here auditioned lotoo paw gold? 
I'm looking for a more portable solution than idsd. Is paw gold a good upgrade?


----------



## Mr Creosote

Nicely written and very thoughtful and not over one listening session I guess? What music did you listen to?
  
 You haven’t listened to the AMR gear yet have you? Don’t think your upgrades will stop at the ifi stack of power.
  
 I could never get completely on with the HD800. Nice to know it can be tamed and more.
  
 Now if there was a hd-900 I would definitely give it a listen


----------



## topmix

Hello you all.
  
 Im a noob in this forum



 and i would like to ask your opinions about
 iFi iDSD Micro.
  
First of all if its worth it to  buy it plus iFi micro iUSB? Is there  any real sound improvement over single iDSD?
  
 In specs section there is a SPDIF Optical *but all i see is a SPDIF COAX*.Is there something that i miss here?
  
 Last what it will be the right match headphones in your opinion?
  
 Im between SENN 600 HD, Beyerdynamic T90 and HifiMAN HE-400i .
  
 Thank you all in advance.


----------



## technobear

topmix said:


> Hello you all.
> 
> Im a [COLOR=545454]noob in this forum[/COLOR] [COLOR=545454]and i would like to ask your opinions about[/COLOR]
> iFi iDSD Micro.




Welcome to Head-Fi 




topmix said:


> [COLOR=545454]First of all if its worth it to buy it plus [/COLOR]iFi micro iUSB? Is there any real sound improvement over single iDSD?




In my opinion, no. I could not hear a difference. Others say they do. It is going to be very slight at best. Probably not worth the money.




topmix said:


> In specs section there is a [COLOR=656565]SPDIF Optical *but all i see is a SPDIF COAX*.Is there something that i miss here?[/COLOR]




Yes. The optical input is hidden within the coaxial input. An adaptor is supplied.




topmix said:


> Last what it will be the right match headphones in your opinion?




One of the great strengths of the iDSD is that it can match pretty much any headphone so use whatever you like.




topmix said:


> Im between SENN 600 HD, Beyerdynamic T90 and HifiMAN HE-400i .




Those are all excellent headphones. Choose the one you prefer the sound of.


----------



## topmix

Thanks technobear.


----------



## topmix

Anyone have  matched iDSD with Beyer T90? or Hifiman HE-400i?
 Any thoughts?
 Unfortunately i got no chance to test prior purchase.
 Thank you all.


----------



## jmsaxon69

matttcg said:


> I'm not sure exactly how much of the stack it takes to get the response from the hd800. I'll listened with the "entire" ifi stack...all four pieces plus the gemini cable. I'll do some testing to find out exactly what pieces are necessary. It may be that it takes all of them.




As the iDSD is already pretty good I think it's the Class A amp and the tube buffer making that Magic on the HD800


----------



## technobear

jmsaxon69 said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure exactly how much of the stack it takes to get the response from the hd800. I'll listened with the "entire" ifi stack...all four pieces plus the gemini cable. I'll do some testing to find out exactly what pieces are necessary. It may be that it takes all of them.
> ...




And then it's mostly the amp, not the buffer.


----------



## GrahamL

All,
  
 You may be interested in the method I've used to get native DSD to my iPhone+iDSD micro at home, using iTunes Home Sharing:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/625493/ipad-iphone-bit-perfect-wi-fi-streaming-24bit-or-dsd-files-high-storage-capacity-portability/210#post_11421607
  
 As an iTunes user (yes, I know, but I like it) this enables me to get bit-perfect PCM and native DSD to my iDSD Micro around the home, with all my music together in the native iOS app, without using any device storage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Graham


----------



## jmsaxon69

technobear said:


> And then it's mostly the amp, not the buffer.


 

 I don't know about that, there is something taking the glare off of those headphones and I'd put my money on the iTUBE more than the amp


----------



## technobear

jmsaxon69 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > And then it's mostly the amp, not the buffer.
> ...




I put my money back in the bank after selling my iTUBE.


----------



## Dobrescu George

what if i don't like tube sound in general... how can i make an ifi stack?


----------



## technobear

dobrescu george said:


> what if i don't like tube sound in general... how can i make an ifi stack?




Just leave out the iTUBE 

To me the iTUBE was a very transparent pre-amp. It didn't change the sound in any way that I could hear and I spent several hours trying just to be sure I wasn't missing anything.


----------



## Dobrescu George

technobear said:


> Just leave out the iTUBE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 tube sound is not for me. i tested from cheap to very expensive tube amps with hd800, all tubes added some sort of nostalgic noise, while it was fun, and made mids fuller, i really wanted cleared, precise, analitical mids, but i wanted to change the tonality of hd800 to a tonality like ie800 if anyone can understand what i am talking about.


----------



## jmsaxon69

I think to comment on the system with an HD800 and the iDSD, iTUBE, iCAN you need to experience it. There is no noise at all and if I didn't tell you it was in the system you'd probably never know it until it was removed or I told you.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Hmmm strange. I find the Micro iDSD to be on the same league as the Burson Conductor SL in terms of level of refinement @.@


----------



## citraian

Strange, I find it above the big Conductor


----------



## rickyleelee

citraian said:


> Strange, I find it above the big Conductor




Conductor has power but little finesse. so great if you listen at head banging levels but get tired of very quickly. But did find it more fun than one of the well known headamp from usa manufacturer that people rave about.


----------



## BillsonChang007

citraian said:


> Strange, I find it above the big Conductor




In terms of DAC, IMO, a huge yes! But as a whole, the Conductor is warmer and bigger in soundstage *height*. The iDSD wins in terms of details, soundstage width, instrumental separation, imaging and basically everything else! The Conductor feels like everything is kinda centered. Otherwise, both are refined, clean and everything needed to become a reference class ^_^


----------



## fleemur12

ifi audio said:


> Thank you but you haven't seen our whisky collection in the AMR Showroom.
> 
> Now that would blow you away much more than our technology.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh my... 
  
 Seeing those pictures of Scarlett Johansson?...then learning that there really is a store called "Masters of Malt" that is a supplier of many rare, malted elixirs?...my basic world perception has been shaken and it has put a real Whammy on my head. 
  
 Now I can't think of anything else.  
  
 ...Scarlett...scotch...Scarlett...scotch...
  
    +   = 
  
  

*What have you wrought?  *


----------



## Jbgoth

Deleted


----------



## EVOLVIST

Edit: I'm perverse. Need more musixxx


----------



## kugino

jbgoth said:


> Has anyone experienced an issue with the headphone jack? My sound cuts in and out if I don't have my headphones plugged in just right. It's really annoying. I'm using the adapter. I searched the thread and couldn't find the answer.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jordan


not sure if it's related to my issue, but my whole right channel went dead all of a sudden. it wasn't gradual. ifi instructed me to send my unit in to get the pcb replaced.


----------



## Mr Creosote

Hi,
  
 Did you try a different headphone adapter?
  
 Or just get a 63 headphone and jack it straight in?


----------



## Mr Creosote

On a nice note I am sitting with a bottle of Connoisseurs Choice Aberfeldy limited edition distilled 1990 and bottled 2011.Listening to a little Nick Cave,Very special indeed.


----------



## Jbgoth

Sorry to read that you had to send your unit back. I actually deleted my post because i discovered the problem was coming from my headphones. I called the company and I too have to return them. They are sending me a new pair since I only bought them less than 60 days ago. 

Thanks for your replies!


----------



## BillsonChang007

jbgoth said:


> Sorry to read that you had to send your unit back. I actually deleted my post because i discovered the problem was coming from my headphones.* I called the company and I too have to return them.* They are sending me a new pair since I only bought them less than 60 days ago.
> 
> Thanks for your replies!


 
 Do you mean the headphone or the idsd? @.@


----------



## kugino

billsonchang007 said:


> Do you mean the headphone or the idsd? @.@


 

 i think he meant the headphone...


----------



## Jbgoth

Yes, I was referring to the headphones. The unit is fine


----------



## guido

What power setting do HD800 users find best?  Turbo or normal?


----------



## guido

Actually the HD800s sound pretty good with the power setting on "Eco" , the volume control is at around 12-1 o'clock....so I suppose Eco it is then


----------



## thinblueline

guido said:


> What power setting do HD800 users find best?  Turbo or normal?




I used to run my idsd in normal mode but I am running it in Eco mode now. I read somewhere that ifi recommended Eco mode to reduce the potential for channel imbalance when the volume knob is in certain positions. Eco mode sounds great to me as well.


----------



## guido

Yep, mine also has a definite channel imbalance towards the left when the volume knob is below 9 o'clock....pretty normal on many amps.


----------



## iancraig10

With my th900 headphones, I run on Eco plus the iem switch underneath so that you don't get that problem at all.


----------



## MattTCG

guido said:


> What power setting do HD800 users find best?  Turbo or normal?


 
  
 Econ or normal with iem match set back one click. Be sure to flip the switch for xbass.


----------



## Sound Eq

so will there be a new firmware released soon


----------



## guido

matttcg said:


> Econ or normal with iem match set back one click. Be sure to flip the switch for xbass.


 

 I cannot get enough volume with it set on IEM set back one click..


----------



## MunDa

Hi guys, I need ur advice. I'm planning to get idsd along dx 90. Does that make sense? Or should I only get the ak 100 ii? Which is sonically the better option? currently own the hd 650 but I intend to get something like th900.


----------



## MattTCG

I have the x5 and it makes a very impressive match for the micro for a transportable.


----------



## sasbyte

went to dealer to listen to ifi idsd micro with hifiman he560. i was blown away. smooth analog sound. i came home with both. what cable do i need to connect my ipad air to the ifi idsd.


----------



## MunDa

matttcg said:


> I have the x5 and it makes a very impressive match for the micro for a transportable.




Yea I read abt x5 and idsd pairing. Jus wondering whether ak 100ii would be sonically equally good or even better. I'm not very keen on carrying multiple devices


----------



## jexby

Welcome to the iFi club!

Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter (MD821ZM/A)


----------



## plakat

mr creosote said:


> On a nice note I am sitting with a bottle of Connoisseurs Choice Aberfeldy limited edition distilled 1990 and bottled 2011.Listening to a little Nick Cave,Very special indeed.


 

 Which reminds me of me recently delivered bottle of Laphroaig 200th Anniversary Edition. I think a glass of that would pair well with the DAC2 I'm using right now, despite its US-provenience. Which of course leads to the question: is the ifi British or Scottish? On the other hand... it's not that important.


----------



## sasbyte

I got the apple Lightning to USB adapter. I plugged it direct from the iPad to if I idsd. Got the message drawing too much power. Any help.


----------



## jexby

sasbyte said:


> I got the apple Lightning to USB adapter. I plugged it direct from the iPad to if I idsd. Got the message drawing too much power. Any help.




Disconnect all cables.
Turn on the iDSD, wait for green flashing light.
Then connect cable to iPad and to iDSD.

FAQ.


----------



## sasbyte

It works now. Thanks.


----------



## topmix

i would much appreciate any headphones pairing suggestion with  
 ifi IDSD.
  
 Unfortunately i have no chance for a listening session  so i can not trust my ears.
 The sound like i expect is clarity,definition,stage instruments separation,
 tight (not necessarily very low) bass .
  
 I admit am not an expert but i have three different choices.
 1)  Senn hd 600.
 2 ) Hi Fiman 400i
 3)  Beyerdynamic T90.
  
 A more experienced  friend advised  Beyerdynamic T90 as closer to my listening preferences.
  
 Any suggestion would be much appreciated.
  
 Thank you All.
 ps'' Im located in Europe"


----------



## earfonia

topmix said:


> i would much appreciate any headphones pairing suggestion with
> ifi IDSD.
> 
> Unfortunately i have no chance for a listening session  so i can not trust my ears.
> ...


 
  
 I suggest Philips Fidelio X1 and the new Audio-Technica R70x.
 Or Shure SRH1540, SRH840, ATH-M50 / M50LE for closed headphones.


----------



## maricius

sasbyte said:


> went to dealer to listen to ifi idsd micro with hifiman he560. i was blown away. smooth analog sound. i came home with both. what cable do i need to connect my ipad air to the ifi idsd.


 

 Brilliant combo and I can imagine it to be perfect for many ears. It was a little too energetic for me and lacking in body (I prefer a warmer neutral sound).
   
 Quote:


topmix said:


> i would much appreciate any headphones pairing suggestion with
> ifi IDSD.
> 
> Unfortunately i have no chance for a listening session  so i can not trust my ears.
> ...


 
  
 If you're considering the HD600 and the HE-400i, get the Philips Fidelio X2 which a lot consider to be a direct upgrade (to the HD600) in almost every aspect except usability with high output impedance OTL tube amps. If you're considering the T90, maybe HE-560? Do note that I haven't heard the X2 and T90 myself. Personally, if your friend says the T90, and judging from your description, the HE-560 will be a great choice.


----------



## technobear

earfonia said:


> topmix said:
> 
> 
> > i would much appreciate any headphones pairing suggestion with
> ...




None of those listed come close to the three that topmix has identified. My money is on the T90.


----------



## technobear

maricius said:


> sasbyte said:
> 
> 
> > went to dealer to listen to ifi idsd micro with hifiman he560. i was blown away. smooth analog sound. i came home with both. what cable do i need to connect my ipad air to the ifi idsd.
> ...




The T90 is a poor man's T1, not as good but not far off. It is available for £285. The HE-560 meanwhile is £650 - a different price level altogether. T1 can currently be had for £575 on Amazon UK. That's a bargain!


----------



## LoryWiv

munda said:


> Hi guys, I need ur advice. I'm planning to get idsd along dx 90. Does that make sense? Or should I only get the ak 100 ii? Which is sonically the better option? currently own the hd 650 but I intend to get something like th900.


 

 I am very happy with the combo. you reference. I run digital cozx. from DX90 --> iDSD with my HD600 or Beyer DT880's (600 Ohm) and the DX90 solo when I want maximum portability or with very low-impedance IEM's. Lot's of great options with this gear. Enjoy whatever you decide.


----------



## MunDa

lorywiv said:


> I am very happy with the combo. you reference. I run digital cozx. from DX90 --> iDSD with my HD600 or Beyer DT880's (600 Ohm) and the DX90 solo when I want maximum portability or with very low-impedance IEM's. Lot's of great options with this gear. Enjoy whatever you decide.




Thx for ur reply. Can anyone compare idsd and dx90 combo with the ak100II sonically???


----------



## MattTCG

maricius said:


> Brilliant combo and I can imagine it to be perfect for many ears. It was a little too energetic for me and lacking in body (I prefer a warmer neutral sound).
> 
> *If you're considering the HD600 and the HE-400i, get the Philips Fidelio X2 which a lot consider to be a direct upgrade (to the HD600) in almost every aspect except usability with high output impedance OTL tube amps. *If you're considering the T90, maybe HE-560? Do note that I haven't heard the X2 and T90 myself. Personally, if your friend says the T90, and judging from your description, the HE-560 will be a great choice.


 
  
 Please don't do this. You're giving advice and making recommendations to choose the x2 and then go on to say that you haven't even heard the x2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 At least let the guy read reviews and impressions by someone who has heard these headphones before making a blanket recommendation on something you haven't even listened to. 
  
 I've owned all these headphones. In truth, the advice you have is mostly inaccurate. The x2 is not a direct upgrade to the hd600 but more of a direct flavor. The x2 has more treble and sub bass extension but the hd600 is better balanced and has some of the best mids out there period. So, for someone looking for better mids and vocals the hd600 makes a better choice than the x2.


----------



## topmix

ΥΓΗΗ


matttcg said:


> Please don't do this. You're giving advice and making recommendations to choose the x2 and then go on to say that you haven't even heard the x2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 First I,d like to  thank you all for taking the time to help me.
  
*MattTCG *As an owner of all  three could you comment about 400i and T90
 coz you have already gave your impressions 
 about hd 600 so far.
 It would be really helpful for me to make my decision .
 Thanks once again.


----------



## Franatic

For the HQPlayers out there:
  
 I was finally able to successfully convert PCM to DSD and make it sound better than unconverted PCM upsampled to 352 or 384!
  
 Here are my settings:
 Oversampling filter - poly-sinc-shrt-mp-2s
 Modulator - ASDM7
 Bit Rate - 11289600 (Quad)
  
 With these settings in HQPlayer I am now converting all of my different PCM files to 4xDSD in playback and it definitely is the best sound quality for PCM I've experienced yet.......this player is awesome....even if the gui is lame


----------



## maricius

matttcg said:


> Please don't do this. You're giving advice and making recommendations to choose the x2 and then go on to say that you haven't even heard the x2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for noticing. I'm rather off today. It should have been "consider the" instead of "get the."


----------



## MattTCG

topmix said:


> ΥΓΗΗ
> First I,d like to  thank you all for taking the time to help me.
> 
> *MattTCG *As an owner of all  three could you comment about 400i and T90
> ...


 
  
 The 400i has a similar presentation to the hd600. They are similarly voiced. The he400i sounds "quicker" with faster decay of notes. 
  
 400i:
  
 *great entry into planar magnetic headphones, sound much more expensive than it's sticker price
  
 *imagining and separation of vocalist and instruments is impressive
  
 *good balance without much if any emphasis on any part of the frequency
  
 *this hp is NOT an update to the original he400, it's actually voiced to sound similar to the he500 so if you are looking for the bass response from the he400 it's not here
  
 *not picky about amplification, sounds great from magni 2 and even less
  
 *possibly most comfortable full sized open planar mag out there
  
 hd600:
  
 *one of the best balanced neutral dynamic driver even made and still a helluva bargain
  
 *more picky about amplification, works best with a decent OTL amp (wa3, BHC...)
  
 *fit, finish and build quality is first rate...extremely comfortable
  
 Either of these hp's work well directly out of the micro. I'd give the nod to the he400i as a slightly better pairing with the micro. I've since added the itube and ican to my stack which tends to favor the hd6x0. You won't go wrong with either of these hp and the micro will do them both justice for sure.


----------



## motberg

franatic said:


> For the HQPlayers out there:
> 
> I was finally able to successfully convert PCM to DSD and make it sound better than unconverted PCM upsampled to 352 or 384!
> 
> ...


 

 Hi, could you please advise what CPU processor you are using to perform the oversampling?  Thanks...


----------



## Franatic

motberg said:


> Hi, could you please advise what CPU processor you are using to perform the oversampling?  Thanks...


 

 This is a 2 pc streamer setup with WS2012/ Jplay/ Audiophile Optimizer. My Audio pc has an i7 processor. I have an i5 processor on my control pc. I believe the conversion takes place on my control pc with the i5 processor and the file is played on the audio pc by an i7 processor. Also with WS2012/Audiophile Optimizer, there is less stress placed on the processor due to many "normal" windows processes being shut down.
  
 Anyway, this 2 pc streamer is amazing and HQPlayer is a significant upgrade to JRiver in its playback capabilities.


----------



## motberg

franatic said:


> This is a 2 pc streamer setup with WS2012/ Jplay/ Audiophile Optimizer. My Audio pc has an i7 processor. I have an i5 processor on my control pc. I believe the conversion takes place on my control pc with the i5 processor and the file is played on the audio pc by an i7 processor. Also with WS2012/Audiophile Optimizer, there is less stress placed on the processor due to many "normal" windows processes being shut down.
> 
> Anyway, this 2 pc streamer is amazing and HQPlayer is a significant upgrade to JRiver in its playback capabilities.


 

 Thanks.. I have similar software (using JPlay mini) but single PC and kind of wimpy I5-4670t with a NOFAN CR-95c cooling..
 Sometime in the near future I will try HQPlayer, one of the iFi DSD DAC's are on my short list..
 Thanks again for the very helpful info... much appreciated


----------



## Sodafish

Hi all, new member here and new owner of the Micro. Such a fantastic sound! This is my first proper DAC, and I'm loving it; the hours fly by!
  
 Can someone please clarify one thing however (I did have a search, but couldn't find the answer): which of the standard/minimum-phase/bit-perfect filters correspond to which DSD filters? I assume it is to standard range/extended/extreme respectively? The manual isn't very clear on this point. Thanks in advance.


----------



## rafaelpernil

Hi guys.
 It's been three months since I have this wonderful DAC/Amp and I'm looving its sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I'm having problems when attaching it to my HTC One M8... I hear some popping no matter what buffer size I use (I use USB Audio Player Pro). Can it be fixed with a new firmware?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Franatic

sodafish said:


> Hi all, new member here and new owner of the Micro. Such a fantastic sound! This is my first proper DAC, and I'm loving it; the hours fly by!
> 
> Can someone please clarify one thing however (I did have a search, but couldn't find the answer): which of the standard/minimum-phase/bit-perfect filters correspond to which DSD filters? I assume it is to standard range/extended/extreme respectively? The manual isn't very clear on this point. Thanks in advance.


 

 ifi gave a bit more explanation here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-v0-16-beta-firmware-calling-iclub-members-page-135/1050
  
 I tend to leave it in the mid position which gives you:
 PCM - Minimum Phase
 DSD - Extended
  
 I find in this position both PCM and DSD have a fuller more natural presentation. Of course YRMV


----------



## gixxerwimp

After reading through most of this and the "vs. Hugo" thread, I had pretty much decided that the micro iDSD was my all-in-one-go-anywhere DAC/amp to power all HPs I will ever own. Was going to order from Music Direct and have my friend bring it back in June. But I just discovered a local seller on Taiwan's version of Amazon just discounted it by 40% 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  So I'm going to pull the trigger and have it delivered to my doorstep for US$315


----------



## RAFA

gixxerwimp said:


> After reading through most of this and the "vs. Hugo" thread, I had pretty much decided that the micro iDSD was my all-in-one-go-anywhere DAC/amp to power all HPs I will ever own. Was going to order from Music Direct and have my friend bring it back in June. But I just discovered a local seller on Taiwan's version of Amazon just discounted it by 40%
> 
> 
> So I'm going to pull the trigger and have it delivered to my doorstep for US$315




Wow, you were super lucky with the price! I bought mine for 499 € because, I did not wanted to wait to be shipped somwhere far away 

Still worth the money.


----------



## sasbyte

How do you check the battery level on the ifi.


----------



## Sodafish

franatic said:


> ifi gave a bit more explanation here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-v0-16-beta-firmware-calling-iclub-members-page-135/1050
> 
> I tend to leave it in the mid position which gives you:
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the response Franatic. I read the posts by iFi on that page, but they do not comment on which position of the switch corresponds to each DSD filter (i.e. only the PCM filter names are marked on the case). Given the order they are listed in the manual, I assume PCM bit-perfect position = Extreme DSD, and PCM Standard position = Standard Range DSD. Is this correct?
  
 For the record, I also find the middle position to give the best common sound between PCM/DSD.
  
 edit: Also, I presume the DSD filters are simply different low-pass settings? Does anyone know the specifics of each one? Thanks again.


----------



## iancraig10

sasbyte said:


> How do you check the battery level on the ifi.




There is no indication for battery level, but you can charge it at any time without problems. I just use it and give it a top up overnight so it never runs out on me.


----------



## Franatic

I know of no better explanation of the filters than the page I linked above
  
 The guide specifies each setting for dsd and pcm...section 11
 http://www.wodaudio.de/Downloads/Micro-iDSD-Manual.pdf
  
 The micro itself is labeled for PCM, but from section 11 you can relate the settings to their dsd counterpart.


----------



## Franatic

I'm curious if anybody has successfully played Octo DSD on the micro yet. I have been able to play Quad speed (11289600) but not Octo speed (22579200) by upsampling out of HQPlayer.
 I am wondering what my limiting factor is. I can select it but it will not play....the timer stays at 0:00.
 It could be some computer limitation....or Jplay....or my usb card. I would like to rule out the micro as the problem if I can. Any input on this would be appreciated.


----------



## Gerrit06

earfonia said:


> I suggest Philips Fidelio X1 and the new Audio-Technica R70x.
> Or Shure SRH1540, SRH840, ATH-M50 / M50LE for closed headphones.




Or the new Philips Fidelio X2 (an improvement over the X1)


----------



## gixxerwimp

rafa said:


> gixxerwimp said:
> 
> 
> > ... I just discovered a local seller on Taiwan's version of Amazon just discounted it by 40%
> ...




Doh! Too good to be true. gr8soundz caught my error. It turns out its the iDAC and not the iDSD (I'd forgot there was an iDAC and thought it was a typo). Back to plan A


----------



## tf1216

Franatic, 
How do you like JPlay 6? Have a favorite DAC Link setting? How about ASIO or kernel streaming into the iDSD?


----------



## Franatic

tf1216 said:


> Franatic,
> How do you like JPlay 6? Have a favorite DAC Link setting? How about ASIO or kernel streaming into the iDSD?


 
 I really like Jplay 6. The SQ is definitely better than 5. Darker background producing superior imaging and details.
 I use kernel streaming and 170hz dac link with .01sec buffer. Ultrastreaming/ throttle on/ hibernate mode on.
  The problem I have playing OctoIs is a Jplay/ ifi problem. Josef of Jplay replied to me:
 "Is that iFi micro?
 If so, it does not support DoP over DSD256 - For DSD512 only ASIO works (so you can't use Kernel Streaming) and we do not support DSD over ASIO as of yet..."
 So since I use kernel streaming, I am limited to 4xDSD....however, it sounds awesome, so I really have no problem.


----------



## gr8soundz

franatic said:


> I'm curious if anybody has successfully played Octo DSD on the micro yet. I have been able to play Quad speed (11289600) but not Octo speed (22579200) by upsampling out of HQPlayer.
> I am wondering what my limiting factor is. I can select it but it will not play....the timer stays at 0:00.
> It could be some computer limitation....or Jplay....or my usb card. I would like to rule out the micro as the problem if I can. Any input on this would be appreciated.


 
  
 I'm upsampling pcm to Octa through Foobar. Sounds incredible and uses around 10-20% cpu off a low watt i7.
  
 I used this tutorial (direct pdf link):
 http://www.hificlube.net/download.ashx?media=/media/194651/Foobar2k%20MP3%20to%20DSD512.pdf


----------



## Franatic

gr8soundz said:


> I'm upsampling pcm to Octa through Foobar. Sounds incredible and uses around 10-20% cpu off a low watt i7.
> 
> I used this tutorial (direct pdf link):
> http://www.hificlube.net/download.ashx?media=/media/194651/Foobar2k%20MP3%20to%20DSD512.pdf


 

 Awesome! Now I understand my limitation with Jplay/ ifi kernel streaming....Quad will be good enough. This set-up sounds so good.
  
 I have 2 pc setup my control pc is an i5 processor, it's running at 38% converting pcm to quad dsd. My Audio pc is an i7 and it is in core mode (deep meditation) playing awesome tunes!


----------



## lakai

i did try octa with foobar and it worked on my old dual core laptop. the limiting factor with regard to sq is the cpu load, 
at that sampling rate, overdriving the cpu at 60 to 80 per cent. i found the best sq was on dsd 128 as it was
at 20 t0 25 percent cpu load, on sdm type b (fp 32), being the most efficient. this was when i was 
comparing jriver with foobar. at octa, jriver was so distorted, whereas foobar was passable.


----------



## gr8soundz

lakai said:


> i did try octa with foobar and it worked on my old dual core laptop. the limiting factor with regard to sq is the cpu load,
> at that sampling rate, overdriving the cpu at 60 to 80 per cent. i found the best sq was on dsd 128 as it was
> at 20 t0 25 percent cpu load, on sdm type b (fp 32), being the most efficient. this was when i was
> comparing jriver with foobar. at octa, jriver was so distorted, whereas foobar was passable.


 
  
 My old music pc is an amd dual core. Saw the JRiver benchmark #s required for dsd upsampling and freaked out. Thankfully, I was in the process of building an i7 machine.
  
 After hours of bios and os tweaks to kill windows services, the i7 still spikes to 45% at times. Never imagined I'd need this much horsepower for audio processing. Sounds incredible though; well worth it.


----------



## guido

Can anyone comment on using Audirvana +2 on the iDSD and what settings on Audirvana they find optimal?


----------



## GrahamL

sodafish said:


> Thanks for the response Franatic. I read the posts by iFi on that page, but they do not comment on which position of the switch corresponds to each DSD filter (i.e. only the PCM filter names are marked on the case). Given the order they are listed in the manual, I assume PCM bit-perfect position = Extreme DSD, and PCM Standard position = Standard Range DSD. Is this correct?
> 
> For the record, I also find the middle position to give the best common sound between PCM/DSD.
> 
> edit: Also, I presume the DSD filters are simply different low-pass settings? Does anyone know the specifics of each one? Thanks again.


 
  
 Sodafish, it's an excellent point you raise.
  
 Although I love the iDSD Micro in pretty much every respect, I really wish ifi had dropped some of the more pointless logos from the bottom of the unit, and instead included something useful such as proper labelling for the filter switch and/or a reference for the multitude of LED colours.
  
 I mean, do we really need the XBass and 3D logos three times each on the bottom? And do we really need a massive "headamp turbo" logo when the switch next to it clearly has a "turbo" setting?
  
 Anyway, rant over...


----------



## Franatic

lakai said:


> i did try octa with foobar and it worked on my old dual core laptop. the limiting factor with regard to sq is the cpu load,
> at that sampling rate, overdriving the cpu at 60 to 80 per cent. i found the best sq was on dsd 128 as it was
> at 20 t0 25 percent cpu load, on sdm type b (fp 32), being the most efficient. this was when i was
> comparing jriver with foobar. at octa, jriver was so distorted, whereas foobar was passable.


 

 When I was using Jriver, I found their DSD conversion/upsampling features unusable. With HQPlayer, they are awesome tools and THE key feature of the player. I was very surprised to see how CPU taxing dsd upsampling is.
  
 If I upsample to 4xdsd it puts a 35-70% load on my i5 processor, depending on which filter I use. I have to use the poly-...2S varieties if I want to play quad successfully. My favorite filter is the poly-sinc-mp. In order to use this one(which I believe is HQPlayers best), I need to limit my upsampling to 2xdsd. This puts a 27% load on my cpu, which is an acceptable workload. I also now think this gives me the best SQ of all the possible PCM-DSD conversion settings.
  
 My current settings:
 Filter: poly-sinc-mp    Modulator: ASDM7    Bit rate: 5644800(2xdsd)    Task Manager has now become a very useful tool...27% on these settings
  
 The setting I am most sure of is the modulator, ASDM7. No other setting comes close to it in SQ. Once I found this setting I was convinced converting PCM to DSD was the way to go. It is astonishing to hear 44khz PCM sound so good!


----------



## Mr Creosote

plakat said:


> Which reminds me of me recently delivered bottle of Laphroaig 200th Anniversary Edition. I think a glass of that would pair well with the DAC2 I'm using right now, despite its US-provenience. Which of course leads to the question: is the ifi British or Scottish? On the other hand... it's not that important.


 

 The Laphroaig 200th Anniversary Edition sounds very nice indeed.Nice and peaty with plenty of iodine for that full body taste


----------



## TheAttorney

franatic said:


> I really like Jplay 6. The SQ is definitely better than 5. Darker background producing superior imaging and details.


 
 How do you rate Jplay6 sound quality versus HQPlayer?
  
 Edit: You mention ASDM7 modulator on HQPlayer. I can see an ASDM5 or DSD7, but not ASDM7. Is this a Beta version that has new options?
  


> Originally Posted by *gr8soundz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I'm upsampling pcm to Octa through Foobar. Sounds incredible and uses around 10-20% cpu off a low watt i7.
> 
> I used this tutorial (direct pdf link):
> http://www.hificlube.net/download.ashx?media=/media/194651/Foobar2k%20MP3%20to%20DSD512.pdf


 
 With either JRiver20 or HQPlayer, even Quad DSD stutters occasionally for me.  This is converting FLAC files using native DSD ASIO and latest iFi driver. I've tried a few buffer size/filter changes, which can help, but not entirely eliminate the issue. The options that reduce stutter also seem to reduce SQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Even my new ultrabook, with latest generation 5 i7 processor, struggles at this point. Processor power 30-40% at this level, which is enough to get the ultrabook's fan started, unfortunately. Even the most demanding PCM settings rarely get the CPU much above 5-7%. So I could just leave it at that, but I'm still drawn to the DSD sound signature, so would like to get the best out of it.
  
 From the foobar instructions, it looks like a specific foobar driver is the key to handling these higher DSD numbers.
 However, I'd rather stick to JRiver or HQPlayer, as I don't want to keep changing apps every time I come across a problem - so do iFi supply instructions for these apps?


----------



## technobear

Methinks it's time that HQPlayer had its own thread in the Computer Audio forum


----------



## gr8soundz

theattorney said:


> How do you rate Jplay6 sound quality versus HQPlayer?
> 
> Edit: You mention ASDM7 modulator on HQPlayer. I can see an ASDM5 or DSD7, but not ASDM7. Is this a Beta version that has new options?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't tried JRiver or HQplayer due to their added cost after trial runs out and I've already spent far too much on equipment.
  
 Also came across Audiophile Optimizer which would add another $150 and also requires using Windows Sever 2012 which is $180 plus $149 per year (u can see how quickly software costs add up when going this route).
  
 Since I was already using Foobar it was also easier for me to just add the plug-ins. I've heard the others may improve sound quality (at expense of cpu load) but, the more I search, the more it seems settings play just as much a role as equipment and software.
  
 So I disabled more stuff in the bios, disabled tons of windows services (down to about 20 now on Windows 8), and changed the iFi settings to minimum latency and 0ms buffer. Yes, it does improve the sound but, even at less than 50% load, I still get occasional stutters if doing other things like browsing. But I built this dedicated desktop for audio so I browse on a chromebook if needed.
  
 I posted it a page or two back, but here is what I used to configure Foobar:
 http://www.hificlube.net/download.ashx?media=/media/194651/Foobar2k%20MP3%20to%20DSD512.pdf


----------



## EVOLVIST

gr8soundz said:


> My old music pc is an amd dual core. Saw the JRiver benchmark #s required for dsd upsampling and freaked out. Thankfully, I was in the process of building an i7 machine.
> 
> After hours of bios and os tweaks to kill windows services, the i7 still spikes to 45% at times. Never imagined I'd need this much horsepower for audio processing. Sounds incredible though; well worth it.




Man, I don't understand any of this at all. I'm using an HP 6930p, which is about 5 years old, 6gb of RAM and an i5 processor, and playing DSD 265 the most my CPU maxes out is 23%!

Now, of course I don't browse whilst listening to music, everything is played through JRiver with no up or down sampling, the ASIO driver is set to minimal latency and the highest sampling rate. 

I've tweaked my Windows 7, yes, to minimum processes, but it's still Windows 7. Nothing fancy. I get no audible jitter, pops, skips, or digital garbble of any kind.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones.


----------



## gr8soundz

evolvist said:


> Man, I don't understand any of this at all. I'm using an HP 6930p, which is about 5 years old, 6gb of RAM and an i5 processor, and playing DSD 265 the most my CPU maxes out is 23%!
> 
> Now, of course I don't browse whilst listening to music, everything is played through JRiver with no up or down sampling, the ASIO driver is set to minimal latency and the highest sampling rate.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry if I added to any confusion.
  
 From what I've learned, your setup sounds about right. My i7 averages about 20% now, I'm using the ASIO at 64-bits, and upsampling to DSD 512. Upsampling greatly increases cpu use compared to native dsd playback.
  
 I was at 12% cpu until I turned off intel speedboost and hyperthreading to stabilize the cores for less possible jitter. I know it seems crazy to turn a perfectly good i7 into a quad i5 with 2mb more cache but these are the things some of us do to eek out better sound.


----------



## lakai

when i do listen for longer period, i try to disable as many processes on task manager - specially 
 windows search as this would jump into the scene  for no apparent reason,when only music is being 
 played, taking about 40 per cent load, on top of what the foobar asio is taking affecting sq...
 this way the laptop could upsample to dsd512 but with corresponding effect on sq. when i am not playing my music natively,i limit my transcoding to dsd 128..at 18 to 26 per cent cpu load...this on an old dual core, 
  gig ram latop


----------



## technobear

All this stuff about CPU loading etc. would be very interesting in the Computer Audio forum.

This thread is about the iFi Audio micro iDSD.

Please stay on topic.


----------



## gr8soundz

technobear said:


> All this stuff about CPU loading etc. would be very interesting in the Computer Audio forum.
> 
> This thread is about the iFi Audio micro iDSD.
> 
> Please stay on topic.


 
  
 We ARE talking about the iDSD Micro.
  
 As the only DAC capable of upsampling to DSD512, cpu usage is essential. Many have to limit their upsampling due to not enough cpu resources.


----------



## Dithyrambes

Anyone have chance to compare android phone+ ifi Micro vs a Sony zx2? I love how the micro sounds, but I have been travelling so often and carrying my ciems along with a stack seems cumbersome. I'm thinking about getting the zx2 and selling the micro, but only if the zx2 sounds as good or better than the micro. I love my micro, but not much room in economy class on the airplane.


----------



## jexby

Maybe an option- the new upcoming Cozoy Astrapi?


----------



## Triodemode

gr8soundz said:


> I haven't tried JRiver or HQplayer due to their added cost after trial runs out and I've already spent far too much on equipment.
> 
> Also came across Audiophile Optimizer which would add another $150 and also requires using Windows Sever 2012 which is $180 plus $149 per year (u can see how quickly software costs add up when going this route).
> 
> ...


 

 I also use Foobar for the reasons you state above.  Why spend hundreds when a free open source software player performs just as well.
  
 Aside from Redbook PCM and 88.2khz files which can be converted using native DSD, are you also converting 96 and 192khz PCM material to DSD?  And if so, are you experiencing any degradation in having to use DoP to play these files in DSD?


----------



## gr8soundz

triodemode said:


> I also use Foobar for the reasons you state above.  Why spend hundreds when a free open source software player performs just as well.
> 
> Aside from Redbook PCM and 88.2khz files which can be converted using native DSD, are you also converting 96 and 192khz PCM material to DSD?  And if so, are you experiencing any degradation in having to use DoP to play these files in DSD?


 
  
 No DoP yet. Decided I didn't want yet another format of the same songs taking up hard drive space. Already have mp3/wav/flac duplicates over the years due to some of my players not supporting all of them.
  
 Plus, I figure 96 and 192khz should be enough on its own so I just temporarily switch the output when playing them.
  
 Thankfully, the idsd micro works well with my setup upconverting the lower stuff since there are no hi res versions available for much of my collection. The upsampling makes even old crappy mp3s sound musical. Played one for my brother who won't even touch mp3 since I put him on to flac. He couldn't believe he was hearing an mp3.
  
 I considered using DoP to get DSD playback from my Note 3 but instead will wait for Android 5.0 update on it.


----------



## Triodemode

gr8soundz said:


> No DoP yet. Decided I didn't want yet another format of the same songs taking up hard drive space. Already have mp3/wav/flac duplicates over the years due to some of my players not supporting all of them.
> 
> Plus, I figure 96 and 192khz should be enough on its own so I just temporarily switch the output when playing them.
> 
> ...


 
 I've decided to go this route as well... Mp3 and Redbook flac get upsampled to DSD256, while the rest are played at their respective native resolutions.  It seems several others on the web share these same thoughts. 
  
 Regarding DoP (DSD over PCM). My understanding in the context of our discussion, is to allow 96 and 192khz files to be converted to DSD during playback - not a new file format that gets stored on your HD.
 Thanks for the response.


----------



## Sound Eq

sound eq said:


> so will there be a new firmware released soon


 
 i dont know how many times must i ask about if there will be a firmware update , could IFI rep gracefully honourably humbily answer this , it will take you ifi 2 seconds to reply


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> i dont know how many times must i ask about if there will be a firmware update , could IFI rep gracefully honourably humbily answer this , it will take you ifi 2 seconds to reply


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We do apologise as we missed your question/posts - we try our best to follow the several iFi threads but cannot guarantee that we catch every question.
  
 If we do miss anything, please do not hesitate to PM us or email us or send a quick message via the website. As you know, upon logiing in, head-fi automatically notifies "you have a new message". We definitely wont miss that.
  
 To answer your question, the new firmware has passed the iCLUB beta tests and is in the final stages of R&D testing. So it is a matter of days rather than weeks.
  
 We try not to release anything until it is "soup". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers.


----------



## gr8soundz

triodemode said:


> I've decided to go this route as well... Mp3 and Redbook flac get upsampled to DSD256, while the rest are played at their respective native resolutions.  It seems several others on the web share these same thoughts.
> 
> Regarding DoP (DSD over PCM). My understanding in the context of our discussion, is to allow 96 and 192khz files to be converted to DSD during playback - not a new file format that gets stored on your HD.
> Thanks for the response.


 
  
 It was my understanding (thus far) that, if a file can't be upsampled on the fly (like 48/96/192khz in foobar) or to get dsd playback via pcm on some devices, then another file format (container) like DoP is needed. I believe the DoP container is like pre-converting the file which can then be played back "natively" on the device while the Micro picks up the dsd info.
  
 To my knowledge, the iDSD Micro doesn't write anything to the hard drive when upsampling lower res files.
  
 I may try converting a few files to DoP and see how it works.


----------



## Sodafish

I have another question regarding the Micro and a rather strange problem. Occasionally Windows 7 will suddenly lose the ability to play audio through the unit (e.g. system sounds, video sounds, game sounds etc), but I can still play music through it fine via ASIO and the unit is still listed in the device manager. Disconnecting and reconnecting the USB cable fixes it.
  
 I suspect the problem has to do with USB power somehow. In my Power Options settings:
  
 - Sleep and hibernate are turned off
 - USB selective suspend is off
  
 I am running the Micro from a USB2 port straight from the mobo.
  
 I read on Schiit's site (item 3 here: http://schiit.com/faq/dac-problems) that a similar problem was solved by running the unit from a mains powered USB hub; would that be of any help in my case too?
  
 If iFi could shed some light here I would be very grateful.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We do apologise as we missed your question/posts - we try our best to follow the several iFi threads but cannot guarantee that we catch every question.
> 
> ...


 
 thanks so much


----------



## gr8soundz

sodafish said:


> I have another question regarding the Micro and a rather strange problem. Occasionally Windows 7 will suddenly lose the ability to play audio through the unit (e.g. system sounds, video sounds, game sounds etc), but I can still play music through it fine via ASIO and the unit is still listed in the device manager. Disconnecting and reconnecting the USB cable fixes it.
> 
> I suspect the problem has to do with USB power somehow. In my Power Options settings:
> 
> ...


 
  
 The same happens to me in Windows 8 (mine shows a red "x" over the lower right audio icon while upsampling in foobar).
  
 Most times I can correct the problem by simply closing foobar (not sure if you're having the problem while your music player is open and/or closed). I've also disabled usb power management in control panel (if that helps).
  
 Make sure you've also disabled all other audio sources in bios and device manager (think windows gets confused otherwise).
  
 Doesn't work 100% though; sometimes have to close/re-open the browser/game after closing foobar for it to work.


----------



## heart banger-97

Hi guys,
 Can anyone give me some notes on how amp section of idsd micro stands in amps' world?
 Is it on the level of lyr, or lyr2 or asgard2 or vali or O2 or m-stage or ...
 I don't want a deep comparison, just a general comment would be appreciated.
  
 Thanks


----------



## kapanak

heart banger-97 said:


> Hi guys,
> Can anyone give me some notes on how amp section of idsd micro stands in amps' world?
> Is it on the level of lyr, or lyr2 or asgard2 or vali or O2 or m-stage or ...
> I don't want a deep comparison, just a general comment would be appreciated.
> ...




Other than the O2, the Schiit offerings you mentioned will outperform the built-in amp of the iDSD significantly. The DAC section of the iDSD is marvellous, but the amp section unfortunately prioritizes power delivery over sound quality. It is a flat (as in soundstage flat), dry amplification section. It does power anything and everything headphones, but it won't sound the best. Using it as a DAC in direct mode and connecting the back RCA to a dedicated desktop amp will significantly outperform using solely the iDSD as DAC and Amp.


----------



## tf1216

kapanak said:


> Other than the O2, the Schiit offerings you mentioned will outperform the built-in amp of the iDSD significantly. The DAC section of the iDSD is marvellous, but the amp section unfortunately prioritizes power delivery over sound quality. It is a flat (as in soundstage flat), dry amplification section. It does power anything and everything headphones, but it won't sound the best. Using it as a DAC in direct mode and connecting the back RCA to a dedicated desktop amp will significantly outperform using solely the iDSD as DAC and Amp.


 
  
 I love the Schiit gear but I don't think I would concur that the Asgard2, or even the Lyr2, would outperform the iDSD amplifier section across the board.
  
 I am sorry to disagree with you man.  I am not looking to start trouble on this thread.  The bigger amplifiers surely get you something above the iDSD's amplifier but not the Asgard2 or Lyr2.


----------



## MattTCG

heart banger-97 said:


> Hi guys,
> Can anyone give me some notes on how amp section of idsd micro stands in amps' world?
> Is it on the level of lyr, or lyr2 or asgard2 or vali or O2 or m-stage or ...
> I don't want a deep comparison, just a general comment would be appreciated.
> ...


 
  
 Just add the ican if you're looking to improve the amp section. I did and was very impressed with the addition.


----------



## jexby

tf1216 said:


> I am sorry to disagree with you man.  I am not looking to start trouble on this thread.  The bigger amplifiers surely get you something above the iDSD's amplifier but not the Asgard2 or Lyr2.


 
  
 Disagree somewhat, depends on the headphone.
 as we are touching on my home set up.
  
 with HE-560, iFi iDSD micro as DAC feeding Lyr 2 (with quality NOS tubes), delivers a much more "realistic" sound, with better (taller, deeper) soundstage across the entire range,
 well beyond what the Class AB amp within the iDSD micro delivers.
  
 iDSD micro internal amp is no slouch with powering the HE-560, and it's great for transportable listening around the house or travel.
 but it is "more lean" than Lyr 2.
  
 iDSD micro internal amp is great with IEMs as a portable set up.


----------



## tf1216

Nice reply Jexby. Did your tubes break the bank?


----------



## kapanak

tf1216 said:


> Nice reply Jexby. Did your tubes break the bank?




You say you don't want trouble, but you make such cheeky comments. Be happy with the dry, flat neutral presentation of your iDSD built-in amp, and its lean limp sound with low efficiency headphones like orthos.


----------



## jexby

tf1216 said:


> Nice reply Jexby. Did your tubes break the bank?


 
  
 about $70-$120 per tube depending on the market, preference of tube, etc.
  
 each tube rated at 10,000 hours.  so for about 5 hours of power-on for night time listening:  about 5 years of enjoyment.


----------



## tf1216

kapanak said:


> You say you don't want trouble, but you make such cheeky comments. Be happy with the dry, flat neutral presentation of your iDSD built-in amp, and its lean limp sound with low efficiency headphones like orthos.




Sorry. I really tried to present a differing position without offending you. I'll do better next time.


----------



## Triodemode

gr8soundz said:


> It was my understanding (thus far) that, if a file can't be upsampled on the fly (like 48/96/192khz in foobar) or to get dsd playback via pcm on some devices, then another file format (container) like DoP is needed. I believe the DoP container is like pre-converting the file which can then be played back "natively" on the device while the Micro picks up the dsd info.
> 
> To my knowledge, the iDSD Micro doesn't write anything to the hard drive when upsampling lower res files.
> 
> I may try converting a few files to DoP and see how it works.


 

 This is correct... DoP just wraps DSD in PCM markers during real time playback for use by DACs that cannot handle DSD directly, or in the micro's case the ability to handle 96 and 192khz resolutions.  I thought you were speaking previously about DoP as another format stored on your hard drive.  We are on the same page here.  
  
 As an aside, my old windows XP duo core (2008 vintage) only hits 60% CPU with no stuttering while playing PCM over DSD512 with the micro!  I'm convinced that a clean and efficient OS is more important than sheer processing power at these DSD rates.   Windows 7 & 8 are just much more bloated resource hungry versions of XP IMO.


----------



## Franatic

For TheAttorney
 "You mention ASDM7 modulator on HQPlayer. I can see an ASDM5 or DSD7, but not ASDM7. Is this a Beta version that has new options?"
  
 I am using HQPlayer version 3.6 beta 4. Adding the modulator ASDM7 was part of the beta and is what made PCM to DSD work for me.
 Sorry, I missed that first time you asked. The beta is here:





 http://www3.signalyst.com/bins/HQPlayerDesktop3-setup-362b4.exe


----------



## SonicWarrior

My friend's budget is about $500. What would be the better option? Micro idsd or Nano idsd + micro ican. Portability is not a big concern as this is for home audio use.
  
 P.S: I already own a micro idsd and am extremely happy with the purchase. I happened to listen nano idsd and was very impressed with the performance for it's price. So I was thinking if a slightly weaker DAC + stronger class A amp > stronger DAC + inbuilt slightly inferior (compared to class A) AB amp.Can't go for Micro dsd + Micro can due to budget constraints . I wanted to suggest something good for my friend and wanted an informed opinion.
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## kapanak

sonicwarrior said:


> My friend's budget is about $500. What would be the better option? Micro idsd or Nano idsd + micro ican. Portability is not a big concern as this is for home audio use.
> 
> P.S: I already own a micro idsd and am extremely happy with the purchase. I happened to listen nano idsd and was very impressed with the performance for it's price. So I was thinking if a slightly weaker DAC + stronger class A amp > stronger DAC + inbuilt slightly inferior (compared to class A) AB amp.Can't go for Micro dsd + Micro can due to budget constraints . I wanted to suggest something good for my friend and wanted an informed opinion.
> 
> Thanks for the help


 

 What's your friend's headphones of choice? I'd say get a LH Labs GO 450 as DAC, and buy Asgard2 as amp. Both class A, both very high quality.


----------



## ClieOS

sonicwarrior said:


> My friend's budget is about $500. What would be the better option? Micro idsd or Nano idsd + micro ican. Portability is not a big concern as this is for home audio use.
> 
> P.S: I already own a micro idsd and am extremely happy with the purchase. I happened to listen nano idsd and was very impressed with the performance for it's price. So I was thinking if a slightly weaker DAC + stronger class A amp > stronger DAC + inbuilt slightly inferior (compared to class A) AB amp.Can't go for Micro dsd + Micro can due to budget constraints . I wanted to suggest something good for my friend and wanted an informed opinion.
> 
> Thanks for the help


 
  
 I'll suggest your friend to wait for the iDAC 2. It has iDSD micro's DAC section and there is a chance he'll have enough money left for an iCAN.


----------



## gr8soundz

triodemode said:


> This is correct... DoP just wraps DSD in PCM markers during real time playback for use by DACs that cannot handle DSD directly, or in the micro's case the ability to handle 96 and 192khz resolutions.  I thought you were speaking previously about DoP as another format stored on your hard drive.  We are on the same page here.
> 
> As an aside, my old windows XP duo core (2008 vintage) only hits 60% CPU with no stuttering while playing PCM over DSD512 with the micro!  I'm convinced that a clean and efficient OS is more important than sheer processing power at these DSD rates.   Windows 7 & 8 are just much more bloated resource hungry versions of XP IMO.


 
  
 Yeah, all this conversion and upsampling can get complicated and I'm still learning.
  
 You originally asked if I was "experiencing any degradation in having to use DoP to play these files in DSD?"
  
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but DoP is for DSD over PCM and those DSDs files would need to be converted to PCM for DoP playback on non-native DSD equipment (hence the new stored files). I'm using the idsd Micro to simply upsample native PCM files to DSD during playback (have little to no DSDs so far; still searching for my favorites).
  
 Can't imagine why anyone would convert DSD to PCM then upsample them back to DSD through the Micro via PC (maybe at a higher rate?). I'd be concerned that the final upsample couldn't restore any losses or degradation caused during the original conversion.
  
 If you already have files in DSD format on a PC, think it's best just to play them natively rather than trying to upsample those too. If I could find my favorite music in sacd/dsd formats, I may never have gotten a Micro and instead used something less expensive for native DSD playback.
  
 Also, I agree that less OS bloat is a plus (helps reduce jitter/stutter/etc.) but XP is just too outdated for me. The Audiophile Optimizer uses Windows Server 2012 R2 because it reduces that OS's services down to 5 to 7. I've gotten Windows 8 down to around 20 (from well over 100) and it improved sound but still keeps the PC usable for browsing and games (not sure XP or Sever 2012 could do all that).


----------



## ClieOS

gr8soundz said:


> ... Correct me if I'm wrong, but DoP is for DSD over PCM and *those DSDs files would need to be converted to PCM for DoP playback on non-native DSD equipment *(hence the new stored files). I'm using the idsd Micro to simply *upsample native PCM files to DSD *during playback (have little to no DSDs so far; still searching for my favorites).
> ...


 
  
 That will be wrong.
  
 DSD-over-PCM means disguising DSD files inside a PCM wrapper so it can be send over USB connection. When USB is first conceived, the USB governing organization does not implement a way for DSD files to be send over via USB (as they never thought there is such a need, since PCM has been the standard for PC audio from early one). So to solve the problem, some clever soul figure out that, by putting DSD files inside a PCM outer shell, the USB connection will have no problem sending it over to the USB DAC. Then the USB DAC will ignore/remove the PCM shell and just decode the DSD data inside as native DSD file. Therefore DoP doesn't have any DSD-to-PCM conversion. Think of it as this: you need to give a CD fuill of rock music to a guy in the house, but the gate keeper says you are not allowed to bring it in. So instead you packed the CD inside a CD case that labeled as classical music so you can pay through the gate. At the end, your friend still get the rock music he wanted, even though it is not inside the original case.
  
 Also, you don't actually '_upsample_' PCM to DSD, or '_downsample_' from DSD to PCM - you are actually *converting*, and the process may not be totally lossless. I'll suggest you read this for more detail:
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-thorsten-loesch-amrifi-audiostream-addendum-pcm-vs-dsd


----------



## Triodemode

gr8soundz said:


> Yeah, all this conversion and upsampling can get complicated and I'm still learning.
> 
> You originally asked if I was "experiencing any degradation in having to use DoP to play these files in DSD?"
> 
> ...


 

 As I stated, DoP just places PCM markers in the stream to be identified by DACs that require it, there is no conversion to PCM.  I was just curious if you may have noticed any sound quality difference when selecting DoP in ASIO settings playing through the micro.
  
 You would still need the micro to play all those SACD ISO or DSD files, and finding something less expensive with the same sound quality would be difficult.  And yes, sound wise it would be counter productive to convert DSD to PCM.


----------



## gr8soundz

clieos said:


> DSD-over-PCM means disguising DSD files inside a PCM wrapper so it can be send over USB connection. When USB is first conceived, the USB governing organization does not implement a way for DSD files to be send over via USB (as they never thought there is such a need, since PCM has been the standard for PC audio from early one). So to solve the problem, some clever soul figure out that, by putting DSD files inside a PCM outer shell, the USB connection will have no problem sending it over to the USB DAC. Then the USB DAC will ignore/remove the PCM shell and just decode the DSD data inside as native DSD file. Therefore DoP doesn't have any DSD-to-PCM conversion.


 
  
 As stated, I'm still (always) learning. I knew about the DSD flags inside PCM for playback but wasn't aware DSD posed so many issues for the usb spec. Seems I mistook "native" DSD playback over usb to mean just that when it may mean dacs like the idsd micro simply don't mess with the file and flags during playback.
  


triodemode said:


> As I stated, DoP just places PCM markers in the stream to be identified by DACs that require it, there is no conversion to PCM.  I was just curious if you may have noticed any sound quality difference when selecting DoP in ASIO settings playing through the micro.
> 
> You would still need the micro to play all those SACD ISO or DSD files, and finding something less expensive with the same sound quality would be difficult.  And yes, sound wise it would be counter productive to convert DSD to PCM.


 
  
 Just tried switching foobar's dsd playback method to dop marker and it would no longer upconvert even a 44khz file. So I went back to asio native. I haven't tried all settings combinations though and I originally set foobar according to ifi's instructions for mp3 to dsd.


----------



## Triodemode

gr8soundz said:


> As stated, I'm still (always) learning. I knew about the DSD flags inside PCM for playback but wasn't aware DSD posed so many issues for the usb spec. Seems I mistook "native" DSD playback over usb to mean just that when it may mean dacs like the idsd micro simply don't mess with the file and flags during playback.
> 
> 
> Just tried switching foobar's dsd playback method to dop marker and it would no longer upconvert even a 44khz file. So I went back to asio native. I haven't tried all settings combinations though and I originally set foobar according to ifi's instructions for mp3 to dsd.


 

 You could be right...  I haven't tried the DoP option myself with the micro so not even sure if it would work.  So now just for kicks (not sound quality) I am wondering if the micro is even able to convert on the fly 96 and 192khz to DSD?  As the PDF you referenced indicated, the micro may only convert 44.1 and it's multiples to DSD.


----------



## semeniub

triodemode said:


> You could be right...  I haven't tried the DoP option myself with the micro so not even sure if it would work.  So now just for kicks (not sound quality) I am wondering if the micro is even able to convert on the fly 96 and 192khz to DSD?  As the PDF you referenced indicated, the micro may only convert 44.1 and it's multiples to DSD.


 

 I use HQPlayer on OSX to on-the-fly convert all PCM sample rates to DSD256 and send this to the Micro iDSD via DOP. Works like a treat - no issues whatsoever regarding non 44.1 and multiples.


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> You could be right...  I haven't tried the DoP option myself with the micro so not even sure if it would work.  So now just for kicks (not sound quality) I am wondering if the micro is even able to convert on the fly 96 and 192khz to DSD?  As the PDF you referenced indicated, the micro may only convert 44.1 and it's multiples to DSD.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The micro iDSD does not convert anything "on the fly" so to speak.
  
 The PC is the host. The dac, the micro iDSD just handles the music data "as is".
  
 Hence the LED just registers what is being rec'd at the input from the host.
  
 All the discussion relates to what the host is doing be that JRMC, HQ Player or iTunes.
  
 We receive a fair few questions about the LED being incorrect but it is "only the messenger". And as there is one LED, the colour represents the signal coming in.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Triodemode

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The micro iDSD does not convert anything "on the fly" so to speak.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for the clarification iFi...  Can you elaberate as to why the micro will not convert 96 or 192khz when configured for PCM to DSD using Foobar as stated at the bottom of your technical tutorial below? 
  
http://www.hificlube.net/download.ashx?media=/media/194651/Foobar2k%20MP3%20to%20DSD512.pdf
  
 Also, I am in the same situation as gr8soundz in not being able to get DoP to work with Foobar when configured using the instructions below.  Any insight as to why?
  
http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_Foobar.pdf


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> Thank you for the clarification iFi...  Can you elaberate as to why the micro will not convert 96 or 192khz when configured for PCM to DSD using Foobar as stated at the bottom of your technical tutorial below?
> 
> http://www.hificlube.net/download.ashx?media=/media/194651/Foobar2k%20MP3%20to%20DSD512.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The _True Native_ is why we chose this Burr-Brown chip. It is the *raison* *d'etre *of the nano/micro iDSD, iDAC2 and Retro Stereo 50.
  
 If it receives 16/44 it stays 16/44 or DSD512 it stays DSD512, it just leaves it alone.
  
 > Can you elaberate as to why the micro will not convert 96 or 192khz when configured for PCM to DSD using Foobar as stated at the bottom of your technical tutorial below? 
  
 It doesn't convert. Even with this tutorial!
  
 Now, as you wish to try MP3 transcoded (read: converted) to DSD512, then as we recommend in this tutorial, it is performed in the host domain. That is, the realm of the source, the PC. This has obvious benefits.
  
  
 >Also, I am in the same situation as gr8soundz in not being able to get DoP to work with Foobar when configured using the instructions below.  Any insight as to why?
 If the LED is not showing what you expect, then the micro iDSD is informing you the PC is not sending out what you think it is sending out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 DoP on Foobar is not straight forward because Foobar is open source freeware and as such, we have noticed "glitches" with it when we tested it on different PCs. One particular PC was a HP Pavillion DV5 - in the end, we had to
  
 1. Totally remove/delete Foobar and its plugins
 2. CClean (https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner) and
 3. Reinstall Foobar from scratch and the foo driver.
  
 In our experience, Foobar and its plugins are not as "rock solid" as say JRMC or iTunes. Even using this foo driver running under JRMC things are never 100% stable as we have come across glitches. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But you can open a support ticket and send us screenshots - the Support Ticket team can try their best to look through your settings to see if there is anything obvious. But the above was our solution for MP3 > DSD256/512 glitches when we installed it on different PCs. Some worked straight away, some didnt.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php
  
 There are also FAQs there too.
  
 Cheers


----------



## gr8soundz

ifi audio said:


> ......MP3 *transcoded* (read: converted) to DSD512.....


 
  
 That's the correct word!
  
 Thanks for clearing up so much long-winded confusion.


----------



## gr8soundz

Found some settings that seem to work with DoP for ALL sample rates in foobar (but only at DSD256 max).
  
 I changed DSD Playback Method to DoP Marker and PCM to DSD to DSD256 (after re-reading iFi's tutorial stating that DoP limited to 256 on the Micro).
 The other settings don't seem to be as critical. I've tried most all the SDM types but it didn't affect playability (sound quality changes a bit though; I settled on Type D for now) and I also chose to use asio at 64-bit.
  

  
  
 Plays (i.e. *transcodes*) everything: 44/48/88/96/176/192khz. No distortion that I can detect and stable blue light on the Micro (its already fully charged so, per the manual, that blue is for DSD256; green would be PCM and magenta for 512).
  
 Obviously not as high as DSD512 but still sounds very good. Will keep listening and comparing to see how much difference there is. But its nice to just set Foobar and leave it to playback whatever sample rate I wish without constant clicking to change settings.


----------



## Sodafish

I just got a replacement USB 3 extension cable as the stock one is a little on the short side for my purposes. It's just a cheap 2 meter one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Matters-SuperSpeed-Female-Extension/dp/B00C7S1B4W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427229959&sr=8-1&keywords=cable+matters+usb+3+extension), and it works, but the output volume and sound quality from the micro are significantly reduced when compared with using the blue stock one. Is this simply due to the longer length, cable perhaps not being true USB spec, or something else?
  
 EDIT: scratch that, I was just being stupid: whilst handling the Micro I accidentally turned IEMatch on. Mystery solved


----------



## jexby

Yah the location of the IEMatch switch is just brutal IMO.
Always gets moved too easily during device transportation.


----------



## gr8soundz

jexby said:


> Yah the location of the IEMatch switch is just brutal IMO.
> Always gets moved too easily during device transportation.


 
  
 Same here.
  
 I normally don't use the stick-on feet some devices come with but I put them on the Micro after the IEMatch and Output switches kept moving.


----------



## prot

gixxerwimp said:


> After reading through most of this and the "vs. Hugo" thread, I had pretty much decided that the micro iDSD was my all-in-one-go-anywhere DAC/amp to power all HPs I will ever own. Was going to order from Music Direct and have my friend bring it back in June. But I just discovered a local seller on Taiwan's version of Amazon just discounted it by 40%
> 
> 
> So I'm going to pull the trigger and have it delivered to my doorstep for US$315




How about a shoplink? Or feel free to pm it


----------



## gixxerwimp

prot said:


> How about a shoplink? Or feel free to pm it





gixxerwimp said:


> Doh! Too good to be true. gr8soundz caught my error. It turns out its the iDAC and not the iDSD (I'd forgot there was an iDAC and thought it was a typo). Back to plan A




Sorry about the error and confusion. I'm disappointed too. 

I actually asked iFi about it and got this reply:



			
				press@ifi-audio.com said:
			
		

> Thank you for your email.
> 
> We can confirm it is the micro iDAC and not the micro iDSD. They are different animals at different price points.
> 
> ...


----------



## LoryWiv

gr8soundz said:


> Found some settings that seem to work with DoP for ALL sample rates in foobar (but only at DSD256 max).
> 
> I changed DSD Playback Method to DoP Marker and PCM to DSD to DSD256 (after re-reading iFi's tutorial stating that DoP limited to 256 on the Micro).
> The other settings don't seem to be as critical. I've tried most all the SDM types but it didn't affect playability (sound quality changes a bit though; I settled on Type D for now) and I also chose to use asio at 64-bit.
> ...


 
 Thanks for sharing what has worked well for you, i may give it a try as well! How is this configuration regarding cpu useage?


----------



## maibuN

Am I the only one who thinks bass is a bit imprecise with idsd? I lent my idsd to a friend and after getting it back the frist thing which came to my mind was how direct and warm it is which I like very much and second thing was that the bass is a bit hard to follow because it's imprecise.


----------



## gr8soundz

lorywiv said:


> Thanks for sharing what has worked well for you, i may give it a try as well! How is this configuration regarding cpu useage?


 
  
 My i7 was around 18% at these settings.
  
 Keep in mind I disabled a lot of cpu features in bios and maxed out every setting I could hear an improvement with. No worries though since I built the pc strictly as a "sound processing machine."
  
 So YMMV but I believe any recent intel chip should have no problem with any of this.


----------



## gr8soundz

Just switched the Micro's dsd settings in foobar back to ASIO Native DSD512 (tried dsd128/256 too) and now I'm getting a popping sound distortion.
  
 Didn't notice any distortion on that setting before but the iFi rep here did say the Micro's dsd plug-in can be buggy (restarts didn't work). Only seems to happen when using SDM Types A through D (I felt SDM Type D originally sounded best before the popping started). Switched back to the SDM Type C (FP32) as in iFi's tutorial and the popping goes away.
  
 Absolutely no distortion when using the DoP Marker setting no matter the SDM type.
  
 Seems I can no longer use any FP32 type of pcm to dsd method with native asio.
  
*Can someone (including the iFi rep) clarify what types A through D represent? Also, does the FP32 stand for floating point 32-bit (versus integer)?*
  
 EDIT: I changed the Micro's usb streaming mode from minimum latency to standard. That mostly got rid of the popping (guess that's why safe and extra safe are options). Minimum worked for a while and sounded best imo but seems pushing settings too far may make the plug-in even more buggy.


----------



## sandalaudio

gr8soundz said:


> Just switched the Micro's dsd settings in foobar back to ASIO Native DSD512 (tried dsd128/256 too) and now I'm getting a popping sound distortion.
> 
> Didn't notice any distortion on that setting before but the iFi rep here did say the Micro's dsd plug-in can be buggy (restarts didn't work). Only seems to happen when using SDM Types A through D (I felt SDM Type D originally sounded best before the popping started). Switched back to the SDM Type C (FP32) as in iFi's tutorial and the popping goes away.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I remember the SDM (Sigma-Delta Modulator) Types A~D were the variants of the conversion algorithms proposed by Philips for SACD mastering a long time ago. I can't remember the exact differences, and I'm not sure whether the Foobar plugin types A~D correspond exactly to the Philips A~D, but I think Type D had the best sound quality and worst CPU load, while Type C had the worst sound quality and least CPU load.
  
 In any case they all add artefacts to the native audio file, and which one sounds best to you is mostly subjective.
  
 The popping you hear might be due to the computer not being able to process the conversion fast enough. The USB output to the micro iDSD only sends out the "converted" data, so theoretically it should not be influencing how it is converting the audio file.


----------



## gr8soundz

sandalaudio said:


> I remember the SDM (Sigma-Delta Modulator) Types A~D were the variants of the conversion algorithms proposed by Philips for SACD mastering a long time ago. I can't remember the exact differences, and I'm not sure whether the Foobar plugin types A~D correspond exactly to the Philips A~D, but I think Type D had the best sound quality and worst CPU load, while Type C had the worst sound quality and least CPU load.
> 
> In any case they all add artefacts to the native audio file, and which one sounds best to you is mostly subjective.
> 
> The popping you hear might be due to the computer not being able to process the conversion fast enough. The USB output to the micro iDSD only sends out the "converted" data, so theoretically it should not be influencing how it is converting the audio file.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 I agree; think I was pushing the pc a bit too far. Something has to give. Lowering the usb setting somehow works for now.


----------



## LoryWiv

gr8soundz said:


> My i7 was around 18% at these settings.
> 
> Keep in mind I disabled a lot of cpu features in bios and maxed out every setting I could hear an improvement with. No worries though since I built the pc strictly as a "sound processing machine."
> 
> So YMMV but I believe any recent intel chip should have no problem with any of this.


 
 Sounds like an excellent result, thanks *gr8soundz.*


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I agree; think I was pushing the pc a bit too far. Something has to give. Lowering the usb setting somehow works for now.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Sorry we cannot comment on the Foo DSD plug-in.
  
  
 But as a general rule:
  
 - Always use 8K buffers and the highest (safest) supported streaming mode.
  
 - Low latency does not really matter for music playback.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Triodemode

gr8soundz said:


> Found some settings that seem to work with DoP for ALL sample rates in foobar (but only at DSD256 max).
> 
> I changed DSD Playback Method to DoP Marker and PCM to DSD to DSD256 (after re-reading iFi's tutorial stating that DoP limited to 256 on the Micro).
> The other settings don't seem to be as critical. I've tried most all the SDM types but it didn't affect playability (sound quality changes a bit though; I settled on Type D for now) and I also chose to use asio at 64-bit.
> ...


 

 Thank you for taking the time to post this gr8soundz...  I am now able to 'transode' all PCM resolutions to DSD256 with Foobar also.


----------



## KritiKal

Newbie style question (Technically a newbie to the forum though anyway).

I'm looking to spend about $1000 (give or take) on a new Amp+DAC. I'm currently using a Creative E5 with Earsonics S-EM6. I'll be holding on to the S-EM6's as I'm really happy with them (when equalized for a more flat response). I mostly listen to FLAC, but I would like moderate compatibility for the future.

With all that in mind, should I look towards this or the Theorem 720 (I like the portability and battery life of it)?

Taking in to consideration audio reproduction ability only, is this on par, etc.. with other Amp+DAC's around the $1000 or less mark (that are portable), or are there others I should consider?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## rickyleelee

gr8soundz said:


> Didn't notice any distortion on that setting before but the iFi rep here did say the Micro's dsd plug-in can be buggy (restarts didn't work).


 
  
Dude, the dsd plugin is not in or any part of the micro. It is by the foobar community. Along with foobar, if you have issues, did you look in the foobar main forum?


----------



## gr8soundz

rickyleelee said:


> Dude, the dsd plugin is not in or any part of the micro. It is by the foobar community. Along with foobar, if you have issues, did you look in the foobar main forum?


 
  
 I never claimed that iFi was responsible for the plugin.
  
 I only meant that they were aware of some issues with the Micro using DoP in foobar.
  
 Here's a link back to the iFi rep's post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/3270#post_11440277


----------



## rickyleelee

gr8soundz said:


> I never claimed that iFi was responsible for the plugin.
> 
> I only meant that they were aware of some issues with the Micro using DoP in foobar.
> 
> ...


 
bud, i was just pointing out you said it " Micro's dsd plug-in" which to me, read it was inside the micro or is the responsibility of the micro. It isnt - that is all. Just correcting the computer audio facts. i was caught out by the led thing as i first thought it was the micro dsd's fault but later found out this wasnt the case. no harm no foul.


----------



## Ovrki1

bavinck said:


> Is the pro going to be the idsd but without a battery?


 
  


john57 said:


> No battery for certain. AC powered


 
 I'm debating on either buying a micro iDSD now or waiting for the pro version to release.  If the micro pro will not have a battery for portabliity then I'm happy buying the standard now because I need a built-in battery.  On the other hand, I'd hate to buy a standard edition now only to find out after the sale that the pro edition will be equipped with a built-in battery.
  
 You're certain it will not have an internal battery.  Do you have a source?


----------



## john57

ovrki1 said:


> I'm debating on either buying a micro iDSD now or waiting for the pro version to release.  If the micro pro will not have a battery for portabliity then I'm happy buying the standard now because I need a built-in battery.  On the other hand, I'd hate to buy a standard edition now only to find out after the sale that the pro edition will be equipped with a built-in battery.
> 
> You're certain it will not have an internal battery.  Do you have a source?


 
 From what I heard so far the pro will not have a internal battery. It may have the option of a external battery but not certain of that. It is more of a desktop unit. IFI have not release the final specs on it. Here is a picture of  a early prototype.  Maybe IFI will chip in.


----------



## ClieOS

iDSD Pro is definitely a desktop only design without any battery inside.


----------



## kugino

been meaning to try my he-6 straight out of the iDSD using turbo mode. soooo...

well, it's passable, but not great. but I suppose most would expect that. the iDSD can get these things to a loud level, no doubt, and that is pretty impressive in its own right. but things get a bit mushy and you lose the tight bass slam that good amps provide. the iDSD is certainly capable of driving the he6 to loud levels, but it certainly wouldn't be a first choice. I don't see the he6 as a very portable headphone so I'm not sure when one would choose to use the iDSD as an amp for it, but I suppose in a pinch it can be done.


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> iDSD Pro is definitely a desktop only design without any battery inside.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct.
  
 Size comparison:
  
 nano = "cigarette" (totally portable)
  
 micro = "cigarillo" (mainly portable/part desktop)
  
 Pro = "shoebox" (totally desktop)
  
 Cheers.


----------



## MattTCG

Is there a projected release date for the pro?


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> Is there a projected release date for the pro?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 mid-May: Munich High-End Show
  
 Final Pre-Production version will be on display there.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Franatic

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> mid-May: Munich High-End Show
> 
> ...


 
 Does that mean there will be a production release before the end of May?


----------



## iFi audio

franatic said:


> Does that mean there will be a production release before the end of May?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 That is the plan - yes.
  
 Correct!


----------



## Jbgoth

Has anyone received the "drawing too much power" message when connected to an iPhone? This started when I updated my iPhone 6+ to iOS 8.2. 

I cannot use the iDSD with my phone anymore.


----------



## jexby

Is the iFi iDSD micro battery fully charged?
 did you turn on the iDSD and wait for the flashing green light BEFORE hooking it up to iPhone 6?


----------



## Jbgoth

jexby said:


> Is the iFi iDSD micro battery fully charged?
> did you turn on the iDSD and wait for the flashing green light BEFORE hooking it up to iPhone 6?




Yes, fully charged. Light flashing. I've tried everything. Sighs


----------



## kugino

jbgoth said:


> Has anyone received the "drawing too much power" message when connected to an iPhone? This started when I updated my iPhone 6+ to iOS 8.2.
> 
> I cannot use the iDSD with my phone anymore.


iphone 6+ here. works fine for me. reset your phone?


----------



## Dixter

working here too...


----------



## Jbgoth

kugino said:


> iphone 6+ here. works fine for me. reset your phone?




Tried resetting my iPhone & iPad. No go. It has to do with my camera connector. i receive the message as soon as I attach the CCK, without the iFi micro. Both iDevices are fully charged. Could my connector be bad? I've only used it carefully at home for about a month. 

Huge thank you,

Jordan


----------



## kugino

official apple connector? does the connector work with other devices? is there any way you can test this?


----------



## Sound Eq

it would be amazing to see a dap from ifi in the future


----------



## Jbgoth

kugino said:


> official apple connector? does the connector work with other devices? is there any way you can test this?




Yes, it's official. I might go to Best Buy and purchase another one. It's like a gremlin attacked it, lol. 

Thanks again. I appreciate all of your help.


----------



## john57

jbgoth said:


> Tried resetting my iPhone & iPad. No go. It has to do with my camera connector. i receive the message as soon as I attach the CCK, without the iFi micro. Both iDevices are fully charged. Could my connector be bad? I've only used it carefully at home for about a month.
> 
> Huge thank you,
> 
> Jordan


 
 I would think that just only the connector attach to the ipad you should not get a message of too much power being used.


----------



## iancraig10

The connector that I use works from the IPad but not the Nano. I get a message on the nano saying that it's not compatible which is odd since it is an Apple connector. 

The connectors are very expensive in the UK as well. I'd say a rip off actually. A 6 inch piece of wire with plugs at the end?

Does anyone know whether the Nano puts out digital data since it has no camera?


----------



## ClieOS

jbgoth said:


> Has anyone received the "drawing too much power" message when connected to an iPhone? This started when I updated my iPhone 6+ to iOS 8.2.
> 
> I cannot use the iDSD with my phone anymore.


 
  
  


jbgoth said:


> Yes, fully charged. Light flashing. I've tried everything. Sighs


 
  
 I am not sure I read your reply right but it won't hurt to repeat it - what @jexby wants to say is, you must turn the iDSD on FIRST, then connect it to the iPhone+CCK. That will set it to self-power mode and shouldn't draw any power from your iPhone at all. If you connect the iDSD to the iPhone + CCK first, then turn it on, it will enable the charging mode and start drawing power from iPhone.
  
  


iancraig10 said:


> The connector that I use works from the IPad but not the Nano. I get a message on the nano saying that it's not compatible which is odd since it is an Apple connector.
> 
> The connectors are very expensive in the UK as well. I'd say a rip off actually. A 6 inch piece of wire with plugs at the end?
> 
> Does anyone know whether the Nano puts out digital data since it has no camera?


 
  
 iDSD only supports Apple devices with iOS7+ via Camera Connection Kit (older iOS won't work as well). Since iPod nano isn't running on iOS7+, therefore it doesn't work with iDSD. On the other hand iPad works because it is running on iOS7+. There are however still other ways to get digital out from iPod nano, just that you will need to buy another DAC/amp.


----------



## iancraig10

Ok. Many thanks. It's just that the Nano reports 'accessory not supported' even when not connected to Micro.


----------



## KritiKal

While everyone's on cables; I've decided to go ahead with one of these. Can anyone recommend a good quality OTG host to micro cable to use with this and an Android phone?


----------



## Jbgoth

john57 said:


> I would think that just only the connector attach to the ipad you should not get a message of too much power being used.




Bought a new CCK. Problem solved. Hope these connectors don't go bad very often. Could get to be pretty expensive. I was really careful with it too!

Thanks for all the support! You guys are awesome!


----------



## iFi audio

kritikal said:


> While everyone's on cables; I've decided to go ahead with one of these. Can anyone recommend a good quality OTG host to micro cable to use with this and an Android phone?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Forza Audio Works. Great team, great service and great product at a reasonable price.
  
 We use Forza in our show equipment from HE-6 to LCD-X to Alclair RSMs.
  
 Tell'em iFi sent you. No discount but they will give you lots of TLC.


----------



## technobear

The Apple CCK isn't just a cable.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

*Question to iFi Audio*
  
 Is there any light on the end of the tunnel, that the micro iDSD get due a firmware upgrade a option to identfly the current battery level?
  
 I'm a happy owner since last year, but I hate if I use the micro iDSD and after over an hour usage it shuts down, because the battery is short before empty. I know if the battery is pretty low the led light goes to red color, but this doesn't helps in this case.
  
 I would really like to have a indicator on power on the micro iDSD like green und blue blinking 50% battery left, green and cyan blinking 75% left etc. I would be enough to have three battery levels like 25%, 50% and 75%.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## sasbyte

battery level indicator will be very helpful. this is a basic requirement.


----------



## KritiKal

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Forza Audio Works. Great team, great service and great product at a reasonable price.
> 
> ...




It's a shame they don't sell any short cables with a female USB A connection (that I can see, anyway) as they do look nice and tidy!

I was ideally looking for something in the 5-8cm region so I'm not carrying unnecessary cable length while out and about.


----------



## Ovrki1

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Forza Audio Works. Great team, great service and great product at a reasonable price.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was still in need of for my first portable audio setup. Thanks!

Question: Has anybody tried using the micro to drive monitor speakers?


----------



## iancraig10

I use it to put an optical signal from the tv into some Roland active monitors. It works well, and you get a lovely clean audio from the tv.

It's an extremely versatile amp in the various ways that it can be connected. Apart from its marvellous sound, that's another of its strengths that isn't mentioned a great deal.


----------



## Faber65

ovrki1 said:


> This is exactly what I was still in need of for my first portable audio setup. Thanks!
> 
> Question: Has anybody tried using the micro to drive monitor speakers?


 
 My iTube is spectacular with the M-Audio BX5a.
 Controlled bass, sweet mids and not fatiguing highs.
 I am sure that the iTube deserves a better match and I am patiently waiting for the active monitors from iFi.


----------



## MattTCG

What's the deal with getting the gain set properly on the itube? DIP switches drive me nuts and very cumbersome to make changes. A switch on the front face would have been much appreciated.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> *Question to iFi Audio*
> 
> Is there any light on the end of the tunnel, that the micro iDSD get due a firmware upgrade a option to identfly the current battery level?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We have no plans - as it requires a major re-write of the battery code which is not a trivial task. But we have relayed your feedback to R&D.
  
 Rather than flagging when towards empty, we prefer to recommend that the mDSD is kept on full-charge (recharge to 100% often) as this is the best for max battery life.
  
 On IEMs (Eco mode) it should run for ~12 hours and large headphones (Turbo mode) ~6 hours.
  
 On RCAs set to Eco mode (2v output) it should run constantly (pls use the supplied USB3.0 cable).
   
Cheers.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have no plans - as it requires a major re-write of the battery code which is not a trivial task. But we have relayed your feedback to R&D.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for they reply!
  
 I use the micro iDSD only for portable use. My normal runtimes are 9 hours in normal mode with my most used cans the Sennheiser HD800, input signal via coax or USB.

 All my portable gear has battery level indicator, I don't need a rocket science with high accuracy, but to have a rough idea what battery level I have currently would be a really big big benefit.

 I love the power, performance and clean sound signature from the micro iDSD and I'm very happy, but if in future this change can happen that would be awesome (not only for me - for other portable only users too).
  
 Cheers


----------



## TheAttorney

ifi audio said:


> ...we prefer to recommend that the mDSD is kept on full-charge (recharge to 100% often) as this is the best for max battery life.


 
  
 Don't you mean re-charge to 80% to get the best for max battery life?
 This only happens in certain charging situations which I've now forgotten. If the 80% rule really does extend battery life by years, I request that the default should be 80% in ALL charging conditions, with the option to override to 100% for the odd occasion when a couple of extra hours really matters. The override could be set by a complex combination of existing switches and LED colour codes 
  
 I'll also echo the enhancement requests to show battery power status. Best done by having a second LED, as the current single LED is already heavily overused.
 I realise this sort of change won't come any time soon, and may need to wait for a Mk 2 version, but I think it will really be appreciated by future owners.


----------



## Ovrki1

I've been thinking about the recent discussion of battery life. When using the portability of a dac/amp, not only will it's battery get drained but likewise does the charge of the phone battery. I thought about making plans to try NFC so that my phone will still have available battery after the dac battery depletes. Like many, my cell phone is like my lifeline.

Has there be any of you who's tried wireless charging with their cell phone so they could stay charging while playing music?


----------



## john57

For me the micro is always in a charging mode on my desktop and during sleeping and has a full charge every day when I take it out of the house. That way I do not had to be concerned if the battery could last for the second day.


----------



## earfonia

h1f1add1cted said:


> *Question to iFi Audio*
> 
> Is there any light on the end of the tunnel, that the micro iDSD get due a firmware upgrade a option to identfly the current battery level?
> 
> ...


 
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have no plans - as it requires a major re-write of the battery code which is not a trivial task. But we have relayed your feedback to R&D.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Probably the battery level could be relayed to the ifi Audio Control Panel on PC ?
 At least we can see it on the control panel if it is difficult to gauge from the single LED indicator.


----------



## gr8soundz

earfonia said:


> Probably the battery level could be relayed to the ifi Audio Control Panel on PC ?
> At least we can see it on the control panel if it is difficult to gauge from the single LED indicator.


 
  
 +1


----------



## mogulmaster

Any solution to this device not working with the Tidal Chrome webapp?


----------



## scrypt

ultraman said:


> HibyMusic and UAPP is working on my OnePlus One but Spotify is not.
> 
> Oneplus--OTG--IDSD


 

 Ditto -- and the odd thing about it is this: The OPO's software was designed with external DACs in mind.  Cyanogenmod progenitor Steve Kondik is a huge supporter of external DACs and tries to ensure that his software will work -- with the widest array possible -- literally out of the box. 
  
 AudioFX and the CM sound panel (AFX's precursor in previous iterations) have a USB DAC setting, but turning it on will not allow standard music apps, streams or sounds to be heard. The light on the iDSD remains purple/blue no matter what resolution is being played and the device itself remains silent no matter how high the volume knob is turned.
  
 It doesn't seem right for the OPO to work only with the UAPP.  It seems as though some glitch or software tergiversation must be in the way and that it could be sorted if we made Kondik's team and iFI Audio aware of the issue.


----------



## iFi audio

matttcg said:


> What's the deal with getting the gain set properly on the itube? DIP switches drive me nuts and very cumbersome to make changes. A switch on the front face would have been much appreciated.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Spacing is the issue.
  
 Both end plates are fully utilised.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

scrypt said:


> Ditto -- and the odd thing about it is this: The OPO's software was designed with external DACs in mind.  Cyanogenmod progenitor Steve Kondik is a huge supporter of external DACs and tries to ensure that his software will work -- with the widest array possible -- literally out of the box.
> 
> AudioFX and the CM sound panel (AFX's precursor in previous iterations) have a USB DAC setting, but turning it on will not allow standard music apps, streams or sounds to be heard. The light on the iDSD remains purple/blue no matter what resolution is being played and the device itself remains silent no matter how high the volume knob is turned.
> 
> It doesn't seem right for the OPO to work only with the UAPP.  It seems as though some glitch or software tergiversation must be in the way and that it could be sorted if we made Kondik's team and iFI Audio aware of the issue.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We are aware of this limitation.
  
 But, this is a fundamental USB Audio Class 2.0 issue. This fix can only come from the device manufacturer and/or software vendor.
  
 It is not within the purview of the downstream DAC (be it the micro iDSD or anything else).
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

theattorney said:


> Don't you mean re-charge to 80% to get the best for max battery life?
> This only happens in certain charging situations which I've now forgotten. If the 80% rule really does extend battery life by years, I request that the default should be 80% in ALL charging conditions, with the option to override to 100% for the odd occasion when a couple of extra hours really matters. The override could be set by a complex combination of existing switches and LED colour codes
> 
> I'll also echo the enhancement requests to show battery power status. Best done by having a second LED, as the current single LED is already heavily overused.
> I realise this sort of change won't come any time soon, and may need to wait for a Mk 2 version, but I think it will really be appreciated by future owners.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes - but didnt wanna complicate matters! But as you have raised the question:
  
 The iDSD micro will charge to 80% if turned on. This maximses battery life span. in stationary use. So stationary use leave the iDSD micro always on and make sure it has enough voltage and current to charge effectively.
  
 But, if you want maximum playtime on battery, turn iDSD micro off during charging and it will charge to 100%.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> Thank you for they reply!
> 
> I use the micro iDSD only for portable use. My normal runtimes are 9 hours in normal mode with my most used cans the Sennheiser HD800, input signal via coax or USB.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We have passed on your and similar comments by others.
  
 R&D definitely found it useful to know.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## scrypt

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are aware of this limitation.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I appreciate your Hermes-swift reply!
  
 As a maker of portable amp/DACs that you hope will satisfy the widest array of users possible, I'm sure you must have puzzled over the differences between DACs that can render audio from any Android device and those that are limited only to USB Audio Player Pro. Is it the versatility of the driver? Is it the implementation of the amp?  So far, the one DAC that seems to work with every Android phone is the HiFiMeDIY Sabre Android DAC, which is really just an OTG cable soldered to a PCM2706 and a Sabre ES9023.  Is it the total lack of features of that wee DAC that makes it so adaptable?
  
 Surely you must have investigated or at least wondered why certain DAC/amps (cf. the Fiio E18 and E17) will work with every audio application, while many choices sound superior (such as the CEntrance DACmini and your iDSD nano) are limited to UAPP.
  
 I also wonder whether DAC manufacturers like yourself have thought about working with Davy Wetzler (creator of UAPP) to create a utility or universal driver that allows other Android apps to recognize more feature-complex products, or whether such an outcome would even be possible. 
  
 Apart from implementation with individual DACs, the idea might be close to what you suggest: for Wetzler to license a version of his USB driver either to every major creator of Android music software or as a built-in driver to be incorporated into stock Android.


----------



## iFi audio

scrypt said:


> I appreciate your Hermes-swift reply!
> 
> As a maker of portable amp/DACs that you hope will satisfy the widest array of users possible, I'm sure you must have puzzled over the differences between DACs that can render audio from any Android device and those that are limited only to USB Audio Player Pro. Is it the versatility of its driver? Is it the implementation of the amp?  So far, the one DAC that seems to work with every Android phone is the HiFiMeDIY Sabre Android DAC, which is really just an OTG cable soldered to a PCM2706 and a Sabre ES9023.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 To answer:
  
 > I appreciate your Hermes-swift reply!
  
 - We dont use Hermes....a bit hit 'n miss! (read: no pickup sometimes. No joke.)
  
 UPS throws things around but all the others are as safe as couriers can be.
  
  
 > As a maker of portable amp/DACs that you hope will satisfy the widest array of users possible, I'm sure you must have puzzled over the differences between DACs that can render audio from any Android device and those that are limited only to USB Audio Player Pro. Is it the versatility of its driver? Is it the implementation of the amp?  So far, the one DAC that seems to work with every Android phone is the HiFiMeDIY Sabre Android DAC, which is really just an OTG cable soldered to a PCM2706 and a Sabre ES9023.
  
 Sorry to be a pain but not correct:
  
 http://hifimediy.com/android-dac
  
  
*Not working:*

Galaxy S4 Mini (doesn't support USB OTG)
LG Nexus 4 (doesn't support USB OTG)
  
  
 Also, the HiFimeDIY DAC is USB Audio Class 1 and limited to 48kHz/16Bit, basically 1980's CD standard Digital audio. So not to be confused with USB Audio Class 2.0.
  
  
  
 So all this goes back to the UAPP website for list of compatible devices with USB Host Mode.
  
 Scroll down:
 http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/
  
 This is the most comprehensive list of compatible and non-compatible devices bar non.
  
  
 > Surely you must have investigated or at least wondered why certain DACs like the Fiio E18 will work with every audio application, while otherwise excellent choices like the CEntrance DACmini and your iDSD nano are limited to UAPP.
  
 No need to wonder, we know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Device you mention is USB Audio Class 1 and does not support full HD Audio. USB Audio Class (UAC) 1.0 and 2.0 are different levels. They should not be confused with one another.
  
 Currently there is no UAC 2.0 support in Android, despite Android being essentially Linux, which does have UAC 2.0 support. Strange yes. True, yes.
  
 In essence the choice is to make a DAC crippled by UAC 1.0, which still does not work with all Android Devices and to have neither DSD or 192kHz support REGARDLESS of the Host (e.g. also nothing above 96k on Windows, OSX and iOS) or to use UAC 2.0 and to support DSD and DXD and to accept that on some Android devices there is no audio and on others that UAPP is required.
  
 The micro iDSD works with ALL Andorids that handle USB Host Mode which means it can output a digital signal to feed a downstream DAC. It is UAC 2.0 compatible. This is really, the only tech spec to look for.
  
  
 From UAPP website which is a neat summary:
Supported Android devices In theory, all Android devices that meet the following requirements should work:

Android 3.1 or higher (no root required!!)
Device supports USB host mode
  
  
  
  
 > I also have to wonder whether DAC manufacturers like yourself have tried to work with Davy Wetzler (creator of UAPP) to create a utility or universal driver to allow other Android apps to recognize your products, or whether that outcome would even be possible. 
  
 - We have discussed this with Davy. There is a fundamental issue here, that the UAC 2.0 support must exist either in Android itself (Android Kernel, Sony Xperia Z2 series and later do that) or in the application, as it does in UAPP.
  
  
 > The idea might be for Wetzler to license a version of his USB driver either to every major creator of Android music software or as a built-in driver to be incorporated into stock Android.
  
 - This surely is something for the creators of Android Devices and/or Android Software (e.g. Spotify or Tidal) to take up with Mr. Wetzler, not for a DAC manufacturer. Sorry but this is not our beeswax!
  
  
  
  
  
*In case someone asks about Tidal and Spotify with the micro iDSD....*  
 Having said all this, this is why we only recommend Sony (on the Android platform). They have an interest in audio (obviously) and they have the Hi-Res Walkman app and of course UAPP.  Sony can pipe system audio through a DAC because they have done so in the kernel.
  
Apps have no system rights and cannot access system audio, so unfortunately that's not possible (otherwise UAPP would have done it a long time ago). This is WHY Spotify/Tidal is patchy - it does not work on some droids and works flawlessly on the Sonys and other droids. Again, this is not something the micro iDSD (or any other DAC for that matter) can effect.
  
 By the way, the Z2 and Z3 are bang up to date and run the newer 4.4 which is higher than 4.2 on the ZX2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 For Android information, it is best if a support ticket is opened so we can email through the pdf.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php
  
 And there are FAQs there too...


----------



## knorris908

mogulmaster said:


> Any solution to this device not working with the Tidal Chrome webapp?


 
 Odd...  Mine worked.  Even on our really low-end PC too.
  
 Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit - Dell Inspiron 530 (old Core 2 Duo E8300 2.83GHz CPU) 4GB RAM, USB 2.0 only out of the front ports
 Chrome 41.0.2272.101 m
  
 No problem with my Photoshop PC Win 8.1 Pro 64-bit - Dell XPS 8500 i7-3770 3.4GHz CPU 32GB RAM, USB 3.0 out of the front ports
 Chrome 41.0.2272.101 m
  
 As well as Media PC
 Windows 7 64-bit - HP m8120n - Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz CPU 16GB RAM USB 2.0 only out of the front ports
 Chrome 41.0.2272.101 m


----------



## iFi audio

> Originally Posted by *mogulmaster*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Hi,

  
  
 Sorry we missed that question but:
  
*In case someone asks about Tidal and Spotify with the micro iDSD....*  
 Having said all this, this is why we only recommend Sony (on the Android platform). They have an interest in audio (obviously) and they have the Hi-Res Walkman app and of course UAPP.  Sony can pipe system audio through a DAC because they have done so in the kernel.
  
Apps have no system rights and cannot access system audio, so unfortunately that's not possible (otherwise UAPP would have done it a long time ago). This is WHY Spotify/Tidal is "patchy" - it does not work on some droids and works flawlessly on the Sonys and other droids. Again, this is not something the micro iDSD (or any other DAC for that matter) can effect.
  
  
 As per above, it isnt not the Tidal app per se.
  
 It is the device and whether or not is enabled.
  
 Besides PCs (WIn and OS X), the iPhone 6 with Tidal app streams music to the nano/micro iDSDs for example. So does the Sony Z2+Z3 droids. This is just to cite two "known good" examples that work.


----------



## ClieOS

This is why I am kind of glad that I picked up a Xperia Z2 last year. Another advantage is that, beside USB port, Sony also has magnetic charging port and therefore it is possible to charge the smartphone while using the USB port for USB DAC at the same time (*and if you have a self-powered USB hub between the smartphone and iDSD, you can also recharge the iDSD at the same time). The only downside is that the USB port is hidden under a flap for water resistant purpose and it is positioned on the right side, so it isn't the most convenient to use. However, the upcoming Z4 is rumored to have a water proof USB port that sits openly on the bottom. That would make it likely one of the best option for those of you who are looking for a smartphone as digital transport and streaming..


----------



## mogulmaster

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Sorry we missed that question but:
> ...


 

 So there's no way you guys no how to 'enable' the iFi for the Chrome webapp? Thanks


----------



## mogulmaster

Actually no sound comes out of Chrome in general for my iFi. I think it may have to do with some Apple and Google dispute right now...


----------



## jhwalker

mogulmaster said:


> Actually no sound comes out of Chrome in general for my iFi. I think it may have to do with some Apple and Google dispute right now...


 

 There is nothing about Chrome or Tidal that needs any special sound setup.  It simply plays through your default / current sound device in your OS.
  
 FWIW, no problem here in playing Tidal (or any other source) through iFi when set as my audio output device in OS X 10.10.x or in Windows 7.x.


----------



## Dixter

Also noted that the new iOS now allows streaming via your home network...  and some have figured out how to stream DSD on the iphone or ipad here..
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/625493/ipad-iphone-bit-perfect-wi-fi-streaming-24bit-or-dsd-files-high-storage-capacity-portability/210


----------



## iFi audio

mogulmaster said:


> Actually no sound comes out of Chrome in general for my iFi. I think it may have to do with some Apple and Google dispute right now...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Need to know your PC or Andriod setup.
  
 The techie guys cant do anything without this basic information.
  
 You need to ask the tech guys to send the Chrome pdf/answers to you.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php
  
 And there are FAQs in there relating to general Chrome/broswer settings.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## rickyleelee

mogulmaster said:


> Actually no sound comes out of Chrome in general for my iFi. I think it may have to do with some Apple and Google dispute right now...




It is to do your Pc or tablet or phone. Read the article again. Me and others have it working but if you can't you should check your device not the converter. It is not how computer audio works. Maybe something maybe nuthing you can do. Read up on your device yourself or ask their techies. Just trying to help


----------



## sasbyte

do you think adding the ifi iusb power unit will make a difference in sound quality?


----------



## mitchmalibu

Hi,
  
 Long time no post. I just had a quick question about turbo mode. I just got the idsd micro today and tried it a bit. I plugged it into my computer, set the amp to "normal" mode and listened to a bit of music through my hd700. It worked fine but the sound was a bit quiet for my taste. I turned the amp off, put it in "turbo" mode, and turned it back on (I obviously was careful about the initial volume setting, no more than 9 pm on the volume dial). I let some music come through, and a horrendous buzzing sound was coming from the left channel while the right one played normally. Worried something might have broken, I tried to use a old set of earbuds (reliable when testing for defective gear). Obviously, the volume dial was almost on off with these, but it didn't matter, the left earbud litterally blew up (loud pop, burning smell).
  
 Am I crazy to believe that the HD700 is able to handle the 4w the idsd outputs on turbo mode ? The only answer I got from the support is basically that I was silly for using turbo mode ...
  
 Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## MattTCG

First, I'd open a trouble ticket with ifi. Second, where is the iem match setting? That will make a big difference in volume level. Can you try the micro on a different pc?


----------



## mitchmalibu

I did open a trouble ticket with ifi and just got the standard answer as mentioned above. The IEM match setting was off, but as I said, the volume never went past 9pm on the unit. I am not willing to test it anywhere else, giving the fact that it almost destroyed my HD700.


----------



## ClieOS

mitchmalibu said:


> I did open a trouble ticket with ifi and just got the standard answer as mentioned above. The IEM match setting was off, but as I said, the volume never went past 9pm on the unit. I am not willing to test it anywhere else, giving the fact that it almost destroyed my HD700.


 
  
 Seems like that could be DC leakage on the left channel, which is more likely to burn the coil of the transducer than just loud volume. The iDSD micro could very well be a lemon. If you have a multimeter or volt meter, you can play a tone (say 1kHz) and measure if there is any DC voltage on either channel.


----------



## iancraig10

Its a bit much when you have to test a unit yourself after being told that you're basically 'silly' by the manufacturer.

Mine plays fine on all modes so there is a problem with yours.

Not fit for purpose and ask for a replacement comes to mind here.

That kind of power could do an iem in but if it is dc, you could end up putting a claim in to them for damaging your headphone due to a unit unfit for purpose.

I can't believe that support would come out with a reply like that.


----------



## mitchmalibu

Just to be clear, the ifi support team was always nice and professional with me. It's just that their first answer was a standard message not really acknowledging my problem. The issue is now taken care of and I should receive a new unit soon. I will however have to test extensively my hd700 to see if any real damage was done.

Cheers


----------



## iancraig10

Ok, thanks. You've put my mind at rest. I love the Micro and its capabilities but it's never good to hear that a manufacturer fobs you off.

I'm very glad to see that you have a new unit on the way.


----------



## technobear

mitchmalibu said:


> Hi,
> 
> Long time no post. I just had a quick question about turbo mode. I just got the idsd micro today and tried it a bit. I plugged it into my computer, set the amp to "normal" mode and listened to a bit of music through my hd700. It worked fine but the sound was a bit quiet for my taste. I turned the amp off, put it in "turbo" mode, and turned it back on (I obviously was careful about the initial volume setting, no more than 9 pm on the volume dial). I let some music come through, and a horrendous buzzing sound was coming from the left channel while the right one played normally. Worried something might have broken, I tried to use a old set of earbuds (reliable when testing for defective gear). Obviously, the volume dial was almost on off with these, but it didn't matter, the left earbud litterally blew up (loud pop, burning smell).
> 
> ...




When you get your replacement iDSD, CHARGE IT FOR 24 HOURS as instructed before first use!

Trying to use Turbo mode with a flat or nearly flat battery is asking for trouble.


----------



## rickyleelee

iancraig10 said:


> Its a bit much when you have to test a unit yourself after being told that you're basically 'silly' by the manufacturer.
> 
> Mine plays fine on all modes so there is a problem with yours.
> 
> ...


 
  
not mind the earbuds but i wouldnt run my precious momentums on Turbo - the instruction manual does warn people to not do this though still take your unit back to the shop and get it tested/swapped or refunded. hope all goes well buddy


----------



## Edric Li

Driving my TH900 I only need to set the gain to Eco and IEMatch in the middle. iDSD is just so powerful that makes me want to grab another 300+ohm flagship lol


----------



## iFi audio

Thank Native DSD Music it's Easter weekend.  
*Head-Fi readers can download a variety of FREE DSD Tracks at NativeDSD.com.*  
  

  
 Our friends at Native DSD have also made a 20% discount on a Jazz compilation and a Classical compilation.
  

  
  
 The coupon code is _NativeDSD _- valid through May 1st.
  
 Each album ends up costing about €6,50EUR / $7,00USD.
  
 NativeDSD downloads are available worldwide and currently has customers with accounts from 99 different countries.
  
 Happy Easter message from iFi and NativeDSD (and Floor at Native DSD also said to go easy on the Easter Eggs)


----------



## mitchmalibu

technobear said:


> When you get your replacement iDSD, CHARGE IT FOR 24 HOURS as instructed before first use!
> 
> Trying to use Turbo mode with a flat or nearly flat battery is asking for trouble.


 
  
 It was of course running on usb power, nothing to do with a flat battery.
  


rickyleelee said:


> not mind the earbuds but i wouldnt run my precious momentums on Turbo - the instruction manual does warn people to not do this though still take your unit back to the shop and get it tested/swapped or refunded. hope all goes well buddy


 
 The amp is powerful, yes, but it's just an amp. They have to put the warning for obvious reasons, but there are other as powerful amps out there and you don't get paranoid about plugging headphones in (The Burson Audio Soloist is a good example).
 It's an amp, it doesn't have the power of a thousand suns, hence why my problem was considered as a real one and is taken care of


----------



## technobear

mitchmalibu said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > When you get your replacement iDSD, CHARGE IT FOR 24 HOURS as instructed before first use!
> ...




Wrong.

A USB port can supply 2.5 Watts maximum.

Turbo mode uses the battery.


----------



## technobear

More about SmartPower and Turbo mode:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-the-meaty-monsters-are-flying-out-page-95/765#post_10631317

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-happy-easter-free-dsd-tracks-from-native-dsd-music-page-135/885#post_10646012

An index to all the important posts can be found in post #1 here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-happy-easter-free-dsd-tracks-from-native-dsd-music-page-135


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Thanks to iFi you make a 200 Euro IEM to a real nice "HD 800 replacment" with your iDSD.


----------



## mitchmalibu

technobear said:


> Wrong.
> 
> A USB port can supply 2.5 Watts maximum.
> 
> Turbo mode uses the battery.


 
 OK, my bad. I doubt that at the volume I listened to the battery had to help, but thanks for the info.


----------



## USAudio

To me, it feels like the IEMatch switch on the bottom of the Micro iDSD doesn't have the firm detents as the side Power Mode and Filter switches do.
 It feels like it could be accidentally moved to a different setting very easily just by brushing by it.  
 It just doesn't have that more positive "click" that the side switches have as you change the setting.
 For a unit that is meant to be portable and will get moved around a lot, it should take a very deliberate action to change any setting.
  
 Does anyone with a Micro iDSD find the same thing with their unit?


----------



## jexby

usaudio said:


> To me, it feels like the IEMatch switch on the bottom of the Micro iDSD doesn't have the firm detents as the side Power Mode and Filter switches do.
> It feels like it could be accidentally moved to a different setting very easily just by brushing by it.
> It just doesn't have that more positive "click" that the side switches have as you change the setting.
> For a unit that is meant to be portable and will get moved around a lot, it should take a very deliberate action to change any setting.
> ...


 
  
 yes.
 I verify my IEMatch switch every day.  and anytime I relocate the iDSD micro to another room.


----------



## USAudio

jexby said:


> yes.
> I verify my IEMatch switch every dat.  and anytime I relocate the iDSD micro to another room.


 
 I was thinking of sending it back to get another unit but it sounds like that is just the way it is.  Bummer.
 The Micro iDSD strikes me as an otherwise high quality unit that is somewhat let down by the quality of those slide switches.
 They just don't have the quality feel the rest of the unit does, IMHO.


----------



## kurb1980

Yes the ematch slider is touchy. I installed those sticky silicon bubbles on the bottom of each corner and problem fixed.


----------



## senorx12562

usaudio said:


> To me, it feels like the IEMatch switch on the bottom of the Micro iDSD doesn't have the firm detents as the side Power Mode and Filter switches do.
> It feels like it could be accidentally moved to a different setting very easily just by brushing by it.
> It just doesn't have that more positive "click" that the side switches have as you change the setting.
> For a unit that is meant to be portable and will get moved around a lot, it should take a very deliberate action to change any setting.
> ...


----------



## jhwalker

senorx12562 said:


> usaudio said:
> 
> 
> > To me, it feels like the IEMatch switch on the bottom of the Micro iDSD doesn't have the firm detents as the side Power Mode and Filter switches do.
> ...


 

 By contrast, I constantly find mine moved from one setting to another when I haven't even moved it (or only to slid it along a table slightly - and this is *with* the feet applied!).
  
 All the other switches are much more firm - shame the only one that is on the bottom (aside from the direct / preamp switch that I don't need) is the one that is so touchy :/


----------



## senorx12562

Ironically, my "feet" fell off months ago and i have never had any switch change setting without me affirmatively changing it. Just lucky i guess.


----------



## USAudio

senorx12562 said:


> > Mine has a very obvious detent and I can't imagine it being switched by accident.


 
 How does it compare to the side switches as far as switching between settings?  Easier, the same or firmer?


----------



## USAudio

It's really a nice little unit but if they were to replace those fiddly slide switches with some really short, slightly recessed metal toggles (which would be more befitting the styling) and had a separate additional battery charge indicator light, it would be even better.


----------



## Sodafish

The switch problem could probably be fairly easily remedied by  iFi in the form of molded rubber inserts/caps (a bit like those for the input/output jacks) for the variously sized switches that would fit snugly over the switch button and into the surrounding slot to stop it moving. You could have one for the middle position and another for the side positions (as the slot/switch is symmetrical you would just flip the insert 180 degrees for one side or t'other). Just an idea anyway. As I (currently) don't use the Micro outside of a desktop setup it's not really an issue for me personally.
  
 Other than that I'll just say I'm a happy camper thus far! This is the first hardware I've owned which is capable of decoding DSD, and I'm blown away with the difference between PCM and DSD. I have to say I was previously skeptical about these reported discrepancies, but it really is obvious. I'd say the clearest difference is in the top end: with DSD material it's very natural sounding and not at all harsh or brittle as PCM can be. Natively recorded DSD material just sounds incredible and is really addictive to listen to (you guys absolutely must hear some of the Harmonia Mundi, Pentatone or Channel Classics DSD recordings for example). Of course it's no slouch with PCM either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Bravo iFi!


----------



## iFi audio

kurb1980 said:


> Yes the ematch slider is touchy. I installed those sticky silicon bubbles on the bottom of each corner and problem fixed.


 
  
 Hi All,
  
 This is how we do it too - and then the iPhone + micro iDSD do not come in contact and scratch one another.
  
 The buttons were moulded to be raised by 1mm for ease of use as we tried them flush and it wasnt as easy to "grip".
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Hello!
  
 what is the best software to up-sample everything to hires?
  
 tomorrow i am going to test idsd micro, and i would like to know this thing, what program for windows does the best job at resampling to hi res?


----------



## iancraig10

I use HQ Player for DSD and FLAC. However it doesn't play MP3 so I use Foobar for that.


----------



## Dobrescu George

iancraig10 said:


> I use HQ Player for DSD and FLAC. However it doesn't play MP3 so I use Foobar for that.


 
 HQplayer was awesome, but was kind of slow for me, i mean, it took a while to load, for one reason or another, and would take 3-8 seconds for any song to open. 
  
 The SQ was great though..
  
 Any other software that is able to achieve hqplayer SQ?


----------



## TheAttorney

HQPlayer is awesome at upsampling/converting, especially at converting redbook FLAC to DSD to be played by the ifi iDSD .
  
 I haven't tried them all, but I can't imagine anything could be better. However, HQP itself can be further improved by replacing the ifi driver with JPlay 6 - very early days yet with this combination for me, but wow, what potential! More on the JPlay 6 thread.
  
 Yes, HQP does take longer to get started (affected by various settings), but after that initial pause (per album) then switching tracks on the same album is ok.
  
 I'm talking solely about Sound Quality. The HQP interface is an acquired taste, but once acquired, it's ok.
 I still use JRiver for all library management.


----------



## mogulmaster

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Need to know your PC or Andriod setup.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks so much! You guys rule. Also I really like the sound this provides my LCD2s to any prospective buyers. Vocals are face-meltingly good


----------



## kurb1980

dobrescu george said:


> HQplayer was awesome, but was kind of slow for me, i mean, it took a while to load, for one reason or another, and would take 3-8 seconds for any song to open.
> 
> The SQ was great though..
> 
> Any other software that is able to achieve hqplayer SQ?


 

 I consider myself a HQP aficionado it sounds like you need to change your filters to use the 2s variants they will reduce the stress of the CPU.  Also change the frequency to make it integer to what ever the input is will help as well.  Outside of that it will depend on the operating system are you using?  If you are doing DSD and on mac "DoP" has a lot of overhead and can slow things down but if your on windows then "ASIO" should greatly improve the CPU overhead from 30-40% versus DoP.
  
 Couple of settings I use set the micro filter to 'extended' then HQP filter to poly sinc mp 2s modulator ASDM5 and frequency DSD256.  On my system which I boot from a micro unmount the SSD using a slimmed down OS things sound pretty awesome.  I prefer battery powered micro some say it sounds the same but I hear a difference.  I also use the iUSB with the gemini and mercury cables which bests my Benchmark DAC2 HGC in sound quality.


----------



## GradoSound

Can any Mac JRiver Media Player users (under OS X 10.10) confirm that they can bitstream DSD audio to iDSD Micro or up-sample PCM to 2x DSD? All I get is very low volume music and a lot of static. That is, JRiver is set to "Options --> Audio --> Settings --> Bit streaming=DSD".
  
 I have tested the same unit under Windows 7 (on the same laptop + JRiver Asio Driver) and it works fine so the unit itself or the PC are not faulty.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## lieshout

Did anybody else try onkyo hf player converting pcm to dsd 5.6 on iphone?

I never used hqplayer, but the onkyo app sounds very very good with ifi micro idsd. 
Would like to hear how hqplayer and onkyo hf player compare.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I tested ifi idsd against chord hugo today. [finally].
  
 the resoults are... different than you might expect.


----------



## tf1216

dobrescu george said:


> I tested ifi idsd against chord hugo today. [finally].
> 
> the resoults are... different than you might expect.


 
  
 Haha, way to leave us hanging.  
  
 Edit* I see posted 1 minute before I replied.  Eek


----------



## Dobrescu George

IT comes down to what one wants to hear.
  
 Idsd has a poor Upsampling algorythm, but the bit perfect filter provides, most probably a linear or cubic or sinc interpolation, which does exactly what it should, keeps the thing bit perfect.
  
 Hugo resamples, upsamples, changes, interpolates, resamples again, interpolates again.
  
 What do you want to hear eactly is up to you.
  
 I liked the sound of the things this way
  
 X5<Idsd<X5+E12A<=Hugo
  
 Also, you need idsd for harder to drive headphones.
  
 Idsd sounds exactly like most people are telling it sounds like. Bitperfect, is amazing, 0%distortion, Normal volume is fine, but i preffered to use eco, as normal would be pretty loud. what can i say anymore, it was something, a pretty fun thing, but not what i bought, i ended up buying e12a, and stacking it with x5.
  
 My reasons look like this, while idsd sounds extremely clear, and bitperfect, i like upsampled and force-interpolated sound in sinc and polysinc more.
  
 As a closing reply, i would really like to tell @iFi audio that idsd manages to do what it tries to do perfectly, and it is a top product priced correctly. The iphono is a total different story, it is one of the best products of it's type that ever existed, it is worlds better than products costing 4Xit's price. I would like to hear new products from ifi.


----------



## citraian

Did you try the other filters as well? Also, can you give more details on the player settings, the driver settings and the settings on the ifi itself?


----------



## ClieOS

dobrescu george said:


> IT comes down to what one wants to hear.
> 
> Idsd has a poor Upsampling algorythm, but the bit perfect filter provides, most probably a linear or cubic or sinc interpolation, which does exactly what it should, keeps the thing bit perfect.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What kind of setup / source were you using for your listening?
  
 Also, as far as I know, iDSD doesn't have an upsampling algorithm, so to speak, unless you are referring whatever software upsampling you were using at the test.


----------



## Dobrescu George

citraian said:


> Did you try the other filters as well? Also, can you give more details on the player settings, the driver settings and the settings on the ifi itself?


 
 I used only x5 as a transport, so it had flac files to idsd.
  
 I used idsd as it follows, 
  
 tried iematch, tired normal and eco, tried both xbass, and holographic thing, i did not touch the polarity button, it was on +, direct output. any more buttons i can name?
  
 for the statement, the product sounds exactly as stated by most people, the DAC is extremely potent, with no distortions, but the AMP, is somewhat less coloured than i would like, .. i liked e12a better, it added more soundstage, made everything more... fun. maybe idsd is too linear for my tastes, maybe i was looking for a different thing.
  
 [for the record, i love headphones that have more bass and treble, i have ultrasone dj one pro, and ie8, on ie8 i usually add +6db at 16khz, and -6db at 125hz].
  
  


clieos said:


> What kind of setup / source were you using for your listening?
> 
> Also, as far as I know, iDSD doesn't have an upsampling algorithm, so to speak, unless you are referring whatever software upsampling you were using at the test.


 
  
  filters on idsd are upsampling algorytms, bit perfect means bit perfect, the other two do some upsampling, or at least, different interpolation algorithms.
  
  
 to state the least, i liked standard filter better than either bit sample or minimum phase.


----------



## citraian

Using X5 as a transport sounds a bit off to me with iDSD. Way worse than USB.


----------



## Dobrescu George

citraian said:


> Using X5 as a transport sounds a bit off to me with iDSD. Way worse than USB.


 
 why?
  
 it outputs full flac stream through coaux out.
  
 this has been discussed in hugo threads, usb and coax have the exact same data going through them, it is basically the same file.


----------



## citraian

Not really, I tested PC vs X5 and the difference is big. Also coax and optical use the source's clock in general but USB uses the DAC's clock (which in iDSD's case is a really good one)


----------



## Dobrescu George

citraian said:


> Not really, I tested PC vs X5 and the difference is big. Also coax and optical use the source's clock in general but USB uses the DAC's clock (which in iDSD's case is a really good one)


 
 Anyways i considered idsd as a good desk option.
  
 But it is less portable than hugo, at least hugo is smaller as a general size, whereas idsd is longer, it would not fit in a pocket.
  
 I am sorry that i had not had the ocasion to try it from a laptop, i promise that next time i will test it from a laptop, and see if it sounds much better.
  
 In a general sense the DAC in idsd is extremely potent, it can output great results, but i like using interpolation algorythms that make everything more natural, and better, [I am designing an algorithm for interpolation myself], but as far as bitperfect idsd goes, it was amazing.


----------



## ClieOS

dobrescu george said:


> filters on idsd are upsampling algorytms, bit perfect means bit perfect, the other two do some upsampling, or at least, different interpolation algorithms.
> 
> to state the least, i liked standard filter better than either bit sample or minimum phase.


 
  
 I think you are meant to say oversampling. Upsampling and oversampling are not the same thing.


----------



## Dobrescu George

clieos said:


> I think you are meant to say oversampling. Upsampling and oversampling are not the same thing.


 
 ... oversampling. i am sorry, i got them confused because of english translatation of the words.
  
 Thanks a lot for correcting me!
  
 i got them confused a lot of times because of coherency problems of english understanding, and working a little too much.


----------



## senorx12562

dobrescu george said:


> Anyways i considered idsd as a good desk option.
> 
> But it is less portable than hugo, at least hugo is smaller as a general size, whereas idsd is longer, it would not fit in a pocket.
> 
> ...




Based on the light on the idsd,playing DSD files on the x5 results in dsd dop


----------



## jhwalker

gradosound said:


> Can any Mac JRiver Media Player users (under OS X 10.10) confirm that they can bitstream DSD audio to iDSD Micro or up-sample PCM to 2x DSD? All I get is very low volume music and a lot of static. That is, JRiver is set to "Options --> Audio --> Settings --> Bit streaming=DSD".
> 
> I have tested the same unit under Windows 7 (on the same laptop + JRiver Asio Driver) and it works fine so the unit itself or the PC are not faulty.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 

 Sure, no problem here.  Mac OS X 10.10.x, JRiver Media Center 20.0.87, upsampling PCM to 2xDSD, bitstreaming DSD to iFi Micro iDSD via USB.


----------



## Dobrescu George

senorx12562 said:


> Based on the light on the idsd,playing DSD files on the x5 results in dsd dop


 
 green light always.
  
 I have no hdtracks or hi res music stored in x5 because of saving space memory.


----------



## technobear

S/P-DIF (coaxial or optical) is PCM only.


----------



## dcginc

Here's a few pixs of my custom cable for my iDSD Micro. I wanted to get rid of the USB adaptor which this cable does. Sourced the cable from http://www.elijahaudio.com

from their site: 'All wiring is Audience OCC cryo treated copper. Coloured outer sleeves are hand dyed, unbleached 100% cotton. Internal tubing is unbleached 100% cotton.'

Like all cables, these need some burn-in time. I probably have 25-30 hours w 100 being the point to where they have settled in. So far, the music just seems to get better each hour I use the cables. Have to say everything just seems to open up more, sounds relaxed and full bodied. Nothing edgy or harsh.


----------



## GradoSound

jhwalker said:


> Sure, no problem here.  Mac OS X 10.10.x, JRiver Media Center 20.0.87, upsampling PCM to 2xDSD, bitstreaming DSD to iFi Micro iDSD via USB.


 
  
 Thanks for that. Back to drawing board. More testing before getting worried.


----------



## gixxerwimp

dcginc said:


> Here's a few pixs of my custom cable for my iDSD Micro. I wanted to get rid of the USB adaptor which this cable does. Sourced the cable from http://www.elijahaudio.com
> 
> from their site: 'All wiring is Audience OCC cryo treated copper. Coloured outer sleeves are hand dyed, unbleached 100% cotton. Internal tubing is unbleached 100% cotton.'
> 
> Like all cables, these need some burn-in time. I probably have 25-30 hours w 100 being the point to where they have settled in. So far, the music just seems to get better each hour I use the cables. Have to say everything just seems to open up more, sounds relaxed and full bodied. Nothing edgy or harsh.


 
  
 That is one honkin' USB cable! Is the reason for two "ropes" to separate power and signal?
  
 Didn't iFi design in a male Type A socket so that iDevice users could connect directly without an adapter?


----------



## iFi audio

*Beta firmware - Testing Solutions to Spotify/Tidal streaming on Android and DSD256 on MAC*
  
  
*Warning. 

 Please try this only if you are comfortable with upgrading the firmware on your nano iDSD/micro iDSD/Retro Stereo 50 Beta firmware allows one to:*
  
 
 
*1)* Version 4.8 Beta - Output audio for Android if you encounter lack of compatibility with Device X and Spotify/Tidal* etc., USB Host mode remains required. 
 

Devices tested so far Sony Xperia Z Ultra and Samsung Galaxy S4, allows system audio, including Games and Android Music Playback via iFi iDSD etc.
We have developed a Firmware workaround that enables this for several Android Phones in our possession, but need wider testing.
  
 
 
*2)* Version 4.8.4 - DSD256 via DoP for iDSD nano (and upcoming iDAC2 micro) is now supported, using a special beta firmware. This firmware is redundant on iDSD micro and Retro Stereo 50.
 

This is primarily for Mac, for Windows ASIO Native remains recommended.
Note that this Firmware unlocks 705k/768kHz sample rates on the iDSD nano and iDAC2 micro with hardware that mutes on 705/768k PCM. 
As Mac's default the audio to the highest rate this means there will be no audio until you lower the sample rate in the control panel to 384khz.
  
 

Note that on Windows either Firmware update requires the Version 2.23 iFi Driver, earlier versions are NOT supported.
  
  
 Please open a support ticket here to receive this firmware
  
http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Or open a ticket and contact your iCLUB conciege
  
 Thanks


----------



## h1f1add1cted

ifi audio said:


> *1)* Version 4.8 Beta - Output audio for Android if you encounter lack of compatibility with Device X and Spotify/Tidal* etc., USB Host mode remains required.
> 
> 
> Devices tested so far Sony Xperia Z Ultra and Samsung Galaxy S4, allows system audio, including Games and Android Music Playback via iFi iDSD etc.
> We have developed a Firmware workaround that enables this for several Android Phones in our possession, but need wider testing.


 
 Wow great! I have a Samsung Galaxy S4 and I use UAPP with the micro iDSD, with a coming support for other normal apps would be great! Do you have on the Samsung Galaxy S4 still Android 4.4.x or already 5.x for your testing?
  
 I know this is a Beta and pretty new, but do you exept a time line for the public release of this huge improvement for Android users? Thanks.


----------



## kurb1980

Thank you iFI for the Mac support although HQplayer supports the iDSD micro DoP up to DSD256.  I hope that the official firmware release will address the USB issues of it loosing lock intermittently and have to unplug USB and reconnect to resolve the issue.  Miska the developer of HQplayer has had the same issue as well and I'm sure I'm not the only one who have issue with the USB?


----------



## fordski

kurb1980 said:


> Thank you iFI for the Mac support although HQplayer supports the iDSD micro DoP up to DSD256.  I hope that the official firmware release will address the USB issues of it loosing lock intermittently and have to unplug USB and reconnect to resolve the issue.  Miska the developer of HQplayer has had the same issue as well and I'm sure I'm not the only one who have issue with the USB?


 

 I believe this firmware 4.8.4  does nothing for the Micro as far as DoP goes as it already has DoP up to DSD 256. T.his is primarily for the Nano.


> This firmware is redundant on iDSD micro and Retro Stereo 50.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *h1f1add1cted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would also like to know which flavour Android this was tested with on the S4. I have a Note 3 running 4.4.2 and don't want to upgrade to the new "flat" design ethic (which I find really ugly). Don't have the micro yet, but am seriously considering it. System audio with my Note 3 would be a factor in my buying decision.


----------



## iFi audio

The Galaxy S4 tested is on 4.4.2, the Sony Xperia Z Ultra and Xperia Z1 that have been tested are on 4.4.4. No tests with 5.X yet.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> Wow great! I have a Samsung Galaxy S4 and I use UAPP with the micro iDSD, with a coming support for other normal apps would be great! Do you have on the Samsung Galaxy S4 still Android 4.4.x or already 5.x for your testing?
> 
> I know this is a Beta and pretty new, but do you exept a time line for the public release of this huge improvement for Android users? Thanks.


 
The Galaxy S4 tested is on 4.4.2, the Sony Xperia Z Ultra and Xperia Z1 that have been tested are on 4.4.4. No tests with 5.X yet.


----------



## iFi audio

fordski said:


> I believe this firmware 4.8.4  does nothing for the Micro as far as DoP goes as it already has DoP up to DSD 256. T.his is primarily for the Nano.


 
 
4.8.0/4.8.4 Beta are based on a completely new core code. So they may (or may not) resolve any small niggles around USB.
 
Key changes from our end are around the changeover from PCM to DSD and from DSD to PCM and the fix for Android support, as well as the support DSD256 via DoP for iDSD nano.


----------



## iFi audio

kurb1980 said:


> Thank you iFI for the Mac support although HQplayer supports the iDSD micro DoP up to DSD256.  I hope that the official firmware release will address the USB issues of it loosing lock intermittently and have to unplug USB and reconnect to resolve the issue.  Miska the developer of HQplayer has had the same issue as well and I'm sure I'm not the only one who have issue with the USB?


 
Please open a support ticket.
 
http://support.ifi-audio.com/
 
We have very few reports of this. We have not been able to replicate this problem on our test systems at this point in time.
 
So far all reports appear to come from users of one specific (and obscure) playback software on a specific OS. 
 
There is not enough data at this point in time to point fingers anywhere, be it hardware, firmware, OS or playback software, except to state that for most people on most OS and Playback software this problem does not seem to exist and that the firmware in our testing is extremely stable and resillient, including running non-stop for very extended periods of time. 
 
So if you do have this issue, please help us to help you and others with this problem to identify the source, by letting us have your setup details (precise revisions etc. of all relevant software), background as to under what circumstances this happens, how to provoke the problem explicitly (if possible), etc. to help us to get to the bottom of this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 
Thanks!


----------



## kurb1980

ifi audio said:


> Please open a support ticket.
> 
> http://support.ifi-audio.com/
> 
> ...


 

 I created a ticket and hopefully my detailed report will help to find a solution?  Thank you for your support!


----------



## mogulmaster

can anyone who owns this product with the LCD-X comment on the combination?
  
 I'm in particular worried about the high efficiency of the LCD-X -- my reasoning is that to get the full dynamics out of the iFi, I must not run on ECO mode. But if I run on normal mode, it may just be too loud for comfort on LCDX because there is channel imbalance below 9 O clock.
  
 For my LCD-2, just barely am I running the volume I want on normal mode, without slipping into the channel imbalance area. But if I run ECO mode on LCD-2, clearly there are reduced dynamics.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Sound Eq

neither noozoxide nor viper4android work with my rooted z ultra rom 4.4.4 connected to my ifi  micro dsd when i use onkyo or usb app player
  
 i dont know why
  
 although i tried compatibilty mode in viper4android and also in noozxide i chose it in sound effect and it does not work 
  
  really wish for a processing app for my android phone to work with idsd 
  
 very frustrating to deal with android and usb dacs


----------



## Seamaster

Just got a new iFi iDSD Micro today. After I fully charged the unit, hook it up with Macbook Pro 2013 via USB, no sound? Music plays through the computer speakers though. What did I do wrong? Need adapter?


----------



## the-kraken

mogulmaster said:


> can anyone who owns this product with the LCD-X comment on the combination?
> 
> I'm in particular worried about the high efficiency of the LCD-X -- my reasoning is that to get the full dynamics out of the iFi, I must not run on ECO mode. But if I run on normal mode, it may just be too loud for comfort on LCDX because there is channel imbalance below 9 O clock.
> 
> ...




I listened to the lcd-2/x/XC all on the ifi, and while the 2 needed turbo, the x and xc did just fine on normal. I don't know why you'd go Eco, unless you were just trying to save battery. I primarily used the lcd-x with turbo and it was great.


----------



## jhwalker

seamaster said:


> Just got a new iFi iDSD Micro today. After I fully charged the unit, hook it up with Macbook Pro 2013 via USB, no sound? Music plays through the computer speakers though. What did I do wrong? Need adapter?


 

 Not to be insulting, but do you know how to select the sound output device using System Preferences | Sound?
  
 In case not, launch the System Preferences app and chose the Sound option.  On the Output tab, is your new iFi Micro listed as a choice?  If not, it is not being recognized and there is additional troubleshooting needed.  If it is listed, you should be able to select it and any app producing sound should begin playing through the Micro.
  
 Note that some applications (e.g., JRiver Media Center, TIDAL desktop app, etc.) have their own internal settings to select the output device.  What application(s) are you using to output sound?


----------



## Triodemode

mogulmaster said:


> can anyone who owns this product with the LCD-X comment on the combination?
> 
> I'm in particular worried about the high efficiency of the LCD-X -- my reasoning is that to get the full dynamics out of the iFi, I must not run on ECO mode. But if I run on normal mode, it may just be too loud for comfort on LCDX because there is channel imbalance below 9 O clock.
> 
> ...


 
 I have experienced this same phenomenon when using my Sennheiser HD650 in ECO mode as well. Normal mode sounds better but I too suffer with that 9 0'clock channel imbalance.  My DT880 600 ohm on the other hand needs NORMAL mode due to it's higher power requirement.  ECO mode will drive the DT880 quite loud when reaching 3 o'clock position, but again suffers that same reduction in dynamics when compared to NORMAL mode.
  
 Have you tried engaging the IEM attenuation settings under the unit while in NORMAL mode to reduce the volume with your LCD-X?  This may resolve your channel imbalance issue while still maintaining the better sound quality that NORMAL mode offers.
  
 I wish iFi had replaced the turbo mode switch position with class A operation.  The battery life would remain about the same however, sound quality would be much higher while still being able to drive a decent selection of headphones, particularly IEM's.  I guess they wanted to tout a 4 watt output instead...


----------



## Seamaster

Ha, stupid me how did I forget about that! Needs some beer now. Thanks!!


----------



## gr8soundz

Just upgraded my T-mobile note 3 to stock android 5.0
  
 My ifi idsd micro played mostly fine over usb using the stock music player on android 4.4 prior to upgrade.
  
 Now getting either:
 choppy, superfast playback
 or (when it plays ok) constant clicking and popping noises
  
 Stopping/starting the music or turning the idsd micro off/on cures the fast playback issue but the clicks n pops are still there.
  
 I've tried the stock music player and Jet Audio Plus
 tried rebooting the note 3
 also tried 2 different usb otg cables
  
 The idsd sometimes shows a blue light like its charging but the light is yellow during playback.
  
 Any ideas?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Android 5 is currently bugged as hell (I'm still on 4.4.4, I don't want to upgrade to 5), if on 4.4.4 it worked for you and now it's broken you have your (sad) answer. Maybe with Android 5.1 or higher this will be fixed.


----------



## gr8soundz

Upgrading is always a risk but figured I'd try it for the "supposed" better audio capabilities of 5. Plus I had a few apps that no longer worked properly under 4.4.
  
 Wish there was an eval version of UAPP so I could test it first. Have my doubts it'll resolve the issue that happens with multiple other music software.


----------



## technobear

gr8soundz said:


> Upgrading is always a risk but figured I'd try it for the "supposed" better audio capabilities of 5. Plus I had a few apps that no longer worked properly under 4.4.
> 
> Wish there was an eval version of UAPP so I could test it first. Have my doubts it'll resolve the issue that happens with multiple other music software.




A yellow LED implies that everything is being upsampled to 192k. Your phone probably can't cope with that. 

Check if there is a setting somewhere in Android 5 to reduce it to 96k or a setting to increase buffer size.


----------



## gr8soundz

technobear said:


> A yellow LED implies that everything is being upsampled to 192k. Your phone probably can't cope with that.
> 
> Check if there is a setting somewhere in Android 5 to reduce it to 96k or a setting to increase buffer size.


 
  
 There is no option/setting for changing the bit rate anywhere in the device or app settings.
  
 Seems there was a trial version of UAPP sometime last year. May try to find it if still avail.
  
 I may also open a support ticket with iFi just to see if they can help. I occasionally had the fast playback problem even under android 4.4 and I also experienced the popping noise on my pc until I lowered the usb sample rate.


----------



## jagu

gr8soundz said:


> Just upgraded my T-mobile note 3 to stock android 5.0
> 
> My ifi idsd micro played mostly fine over usb using the stock music player on android 4.4 prior to upgrade.
> 
> ...


 
 I experience the same thing randomly. I have som tricks to make it work randomly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





: 1. make sure that the micro is on BEFORE connecting. 2. otg cable in phone and then connect to micro. I use WiMP/Tidal and toggle between offline and online and i noticed that in offline mode it works more often. If I get it to work offline, I can go online and get the music rocking in most cases. I am not sure where the problem is if it's in the andriod software or WiMP. I also have UAPP which works flawlessly. I am on LG G3 and 5.0. I know that in 5.0 the USB audio has been addressed.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *gr8soundz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Seems there was a trial version of UAPP sometime last year. May try to find it if still avail.


 
  
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=en 





> *Note: free trial here: http://www.audio-evolution.com/downloads/USBAudioPlayerPROTrial_2.0.2.apk* Rename the file to .apk if the file got renamed to .man after download! *Android 5 users:* although Android 5 has some support for USB DACs, it is limited to 16-bit and sample rates of 44100/48000Hz. For high quality playback, you still need this app to enjoy 24-bit music at any sample rate your DAC supports.


 
   
I tried this trial version with my Note 3 (4.4.2 rooted) and the HA-2 to test the DSD playback capabilities. You can read about my less than satisfactory experience with UAPP "Trial" here:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/704065/usb-audio-recorder-pro-uapp-24-and-32-bit-playback-ubiquitous-usb-audio-support-for-android/330#post_11492914
  
 The new beta firmware is supposed to support system audio with an S4 running 4.4.2. But my personal experience with UAPP (bad) makes me leary about having to rely on it to be able to use the micro iDSD and might affect my ultimate buying decision.


----------



## gr8soundz

jagu said:


> I experience the same thing randomly. I have som tricks to make it work randomly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 Already tried powering the Micro before and after but I'll try some of the other tips you mentioned (I don't stream much though).
  
 Just tried connecting my Fiio E17 to the Note 3 and somewhat smoother. Had to restart phone to correct audio playing much too slow but the e17 stays at 24-bit/96khz no matter the sample rate being played. Lot less skipping but it still happens.
  
*This tells me that Lollipop is outputting a fixed bit rate no matter the dac, app, or usb adapter. On paper, thats better than the 44khz it was stuck on in some 4.4 apps but the fix (whenever or how its done) must be focused there.*


----------



## gr8soundz

gixxerwimp said:


> I tried this trial version with my Note 3 (4.4.2 rooted) and the HA-2 to test the DSD playback capabilities. You can read about my less than satisfactory experience with UAPP "Trial" here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/704065/usb-audio-recorder-pro-uapp-24-and-32-bit-playback-ubiquitous-usb-audio-support-for-android/330#post_11492914
> 
> The new beta firmware is supposed to support system audio with an S4 running 4.4.2. But my personal experience with UAPP (bad) makes me leary about having to rely on it to be able to use the micro iDSD and might affect my ultimate buying decision.


 
  
 Thanks for the link.
  
 I've gone this far so I'll try the eval and see if it helps.


----------



## Dickies

when I'm using my idsd micro with my mac I'm running itunes into Amarra, would that make bitperfect mode overkill?


----------



## gr8soundz

Gonna try UAPP tomorrow; gotta get some sleep.
  
 But trying my old e17 reminded why I got the idsd micro.......
  
 The e17 is okay but nowhere near the Micro's sound output.


----------



## Sound Eq

guys so sorry to ask but i do not understand what the firmware update is all about
  
 do i still have to use uapp player on android with that update, as i am really wishing i could use any player on android and some sound processors as all the uapp only has eq


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> guys so sorry to ask but i do not understand what the firmware update is all about
> 
> do i still have to use uapp player on android with that update, as i am really wishing i could use any player on android and some sound processors as all the uapp only has eq


 
  
 If you need UAPP before, then you'll still need UAPP after the firmware update. That's because it is that particular Android implementation in your smartphone that is limiting the function, not iDSD.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

clieos said:


> If you need UAPP before, then you'll still need UAPP after the firmware update. That's because it is that particular Android implementation in your smartphone that is limiting the function, not iDSD.


 

 No. iFi wrote that they use a Samsung S4 with stock Android 4.4.2 and they can use the micro iDSD without 3rd party apps like UAPP with this beta firmware. Before the micro iDSD firmware beta upgrade the S4 don't support the micro iDSD without 3rd party apps like UAPP. I write this lines, because I own a S4 and the micro iDSD and with regular iDSD firmware I need UAPP, now you can use without UAPP.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/3405#post_11489963
  


> Devices tested so far Sony Xperia Z Ultra and Samsung Galaxy S4, *allows system audio, including Games and Android Music Playback* via iFi iDSD etc.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *h1f1add1cted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> iFi wrote that they use a Samsung S4 with stock Android 4.4.2 and they can use the micro iDSD without 3rd party apps like UAPP with this beta firmware. Before the micro iDSD firmware beta upgrade the S4 don't support the micro iDSD without 3rd party apps like UAPP. I write this lines, because I own a S4 and the micro iDSD and with regular iDSD firmware I need UAPP, now you can use without UAPP.


 
  
 Have you updated the firmware on your micro iDSD? Can you confirm that your S4 can now send system audio to the micro?


----------



## ClieOS

h1f1add1cted said:


> No. iFi wrote that they use a Samsung S4 with stock Android 4.4.2 and they can use the micro iDSD without 3rd party apps like UAPP with this beta firmware. Before the micro iDSD firmware beta upgrade the S4 don't support the micro iDSD without 3rd party apps like UAPP. I write this lines, because I own a S4 and the micro iDSD and with regular iDSD firmware I need UAPP, now you can use without UAPP.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/3405#post_11489963


 
  
 As far as I know, S4 actually does support OTG USB DAC on stock firmware, so I guess this is more of an unique case between iDSD and S4 on older firmware. For most others, if the Android itself doesn't come with USB host for audio and must rely on UAPP's internal USB DAC driver to work, the new firmware on iDSD really won't make much of a difference, as noted by iFi:
  
  


ifi audio said:


> ....
> *1)* Version 4.8 Beta - Output audio for Android if you encounter lack of compatibility with Device X and Spotify/Tidal* etc., *USB Host mode remains required. *
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## h1f1add1cted

gixxerwimp said:


> Have you updated the firmware on your micro iDSD? Can you confirm that your S4 can now send system audio to the micro?


 
  
 No I don't want to install a beta, I wait for the offical release from iFi. But I fully trust iFi statements about this.


clieos said:


> As far as I know, S4 actually does support OTG USB DAC on stock firmware, so I guess this is more of an unique case between iDSD and S4 on older firmware. For most others, if the Android itself doesn't come with USB host for audio and must rely on UAPP's internal USB DAC driver to work, the new firmware on iDSD really won't make much of a difference, as noted by iFi:


 
  
 Sure *most *of my USB DACs working out-of-the-box with my Samsung S4 on Android 4.4.4 (5.0.2 don't change anything). But the micro iDSD uses XMOS which needs proper driver support (you need to install on Windows drivers too, it's not plug & play - the same with Anroid). USB Host mode only mean *basic *need for USB audio, but dosn't mean all DACs will run. The drivers are the problem. My Sony Z1 needs UAPP as well, like my Samsung S4. For example with the Sony Z3 or the Samsung Note 4 the vendors put some OEM driver into this devices for USB audio, so e.g. a Note 4 with Android 4.4.x is able to play trough all apps to the micro iDSD without problems an no need for UAPP.


----------



## ClieOS

h1f1add1cted said:


> Sure *most *of my USB DACs working out-of-the-box with my Samsung S4 on Android 4.4.4 (5.0.2 don't change anything). But the micro iDSD uses XMOS which needs proper driver support (you need to install on Windows drivers too, it's not plug & play - the same with Anroid). USB Host mode only mean *basic *need for USB audio, but dosn't mean all DACs will run. The drivers are the problem. My Sony Z1 needs UAPP as well, like my Samsung S4. For example with the Sony Z3 or the Samsung Note 4 the vendors put some OEM driver into this devices for USB audio, so e.g. a Note 4 with Android 4.4.x is able to play trough all apps to the micro iDSD without problems an no need for UAPP.


 
  
 Actually it has nothing to do with XMOS at all - the reason for driver is because Microsoft refuses to include USB Audio Class 2 driver in their OS, which is required for all USB DAC that runs beyond 96kHz. For example, Linux and Mac both have included the driver from very early on (around mid-2010, and USB Audio Class 2 was officially released around 2009 ) into their OS and thus you don't need to install it separately. Again, it has nothing to do with XMOS, as any USB DAC that runs over 96kHz needs USB Audio Class 2 driver, regardless of whether it is based on XMOS or not. The only difference is Microsoft has consistently refused to add it to their OS, for no good reason no less.
  
 Now you might wonder - since Android is based on Linux, why doesn't it supports USB DAC natively? Well, it is because at the beginning, Google never thought anyone would need to run an USB DAC on a smartphone, so they stripped the driver away to slim down Android (*also, don't forget early Android hardware is pretty weak and probably won't run an USB DAC anyway). In fact, it is not till Android 3.1 (around 2012) that Google started to include USB Host mode (aka OTG) , but only for hosting external memory and nothing much else (*USB audio is mentioned in 3.1, but Google left it blank for smartphone maker to figure it out on their own). It is not until now (Android 5 Lolipop) that a basic USB Audio Class 1 driver is officially included. Long story short - Samsung actually has included a custom USB Class 1 driver as early as S3 and Note 2 since 2012. IIRC, HTC is the second smartphone maker to do so, around 2013 on their M7. Sony on the other hand only introduces their USB Audio driver since Z3 (but they also make it available for Z2, after a firmware update in September 2014), though it is a USB Class 2 driver instead of Class 1 driver and therefore it natively supports iDSD without a problem. All other previous Sony only has host mode for memory, not audio.
  
 Now, to put the long story short - each implementation of Android is different, as intended by Google to allow for greater freedom for the smartphone maker to implement whichever feature they want.That's why the same version of Andorid works with USB DAC on some models but not on others. For example, Xperia Z2 on 4.4.3 after the Sept 2014 update supports USB DAC natively, yet your S4 on 4.4.4. doesn't. But as you have said, some of the basic requirement must be met for it to work, and host mode for audio is one of such requirement. My point is that, without audio host mode, there is little to no chance that USB DAC will work, regardless of what firmware iDSD is running. Even with audio host mode, there is still no guarantee that it will work. But at least it might work with simpler, USB Audio Class 1 DAC, such as those based on PCM270x chips.


----------



## gr8soundz

Tried the trial version and UAPP works perfectly. I'll be buying the full version shortly.
  
 Now able to playback using the Micro with my Note 3 at correct, different bit-rates and it sounds great!
  
 Shame Google isn't taking Android usb audio more seriously (UAPP has all the settings that should be stock by now).


----------



## lucidreamer

Hi Everyone,

 I recently bought a gently-used but otherwise in great condition iDSD Micro and so far very happy with it, listening to music on it almost all the time during work and after. The ability to convert MP3 to DSD512 using Foobar/ASIO plug-ins is really impressive and that is what I usually prefer when listening to my MP3s with my home laptop accessing music via home network.
  
 I find the ultra-wide filter works the best for some jazz and acoustic styles but the standard(middle) filter suits better for rock/pop. Foobar using ASIO drivers really shines and gives the best bitperfect sound bypassing the Windows audio drivers completely. The resulting MP3 sounds awesome, very detailed and analog-like.
  
 However, my work computer is connected via VPN and I cannot access MP3 directly from home network when in VPN mode. Therefore, I just listen to my mp3s from the Subsonic client, the server is installed on my main home computer.The Subsonic client is a browser-based site running at my server and it plays music using a built-in Flash player directly from the browser, other clients could be used, such as phones, etc. I could not figure out how to launch Foobar directly from Subsonic to enable streaming playlisted songs and convert them into DSD512, not sure if that is possible to do at all.
  
 Just a couple of questions... I am still new to iDSD and am seeking suggestions which sampling rate/filters to select when playing from Subsonic flash player.
 When changing the Sampling Rate under Sounds>Advanced tab to 24bit/192kHz - it does the upsampling from 44.1 to 192kHz and the light on the Micro changes from Green to Yellow. However, I cannot seem to benefit anything if I keep the sampling at default 16/44.1 or 24/41.1 which is what most of my MP3 are (compressed from 44.1). The sample rate settings have not effect with the Foobar under ASIO/DSD mode, because it bypasses the Windows audio drivers completely which is good.
  
 Also, changing the filter options on my iDSD from Bitperfect to Standard, etc... does not seem to do anything with mp3 and Subsonic, at least I cannot notice any difference between them when listening to MP3s. However, I can hear huge difference when changing filters in DSD mode as already mentioned before.
  
 Which sampling rate should I choose in the Sounds panel to play MP3 directly via Subsonic? Not sure if the filters make any difference in this mode at all.
  
 Also - when listening to CDs or uncompressed WAVs, FLAC type of files, would it be better to switch to ARM iFi ASIO mode from DSD and play them as PCM without converting to DSD as recommended by iFi? Any other suggestions, recommendations?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## jdgszorro

Hi,
  
    I've just start using my new iDSD Micro and have two issues:
  
 1) When I turn on XBASS function nothing happen. The other option, the 3D works fine.
  
 2) Looks like the left channel has more volume. When I use very low volumes the sound only is audible in the left channel and no sound in the right headphone.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dickies

jdgszorro said:


> I've just start using my new iDSD Micro and have two issues:
> 
> 
> 1) When I turn on XBASS function nothing happen. The other option, the 3D works fine.
> ...


 
  
 the xbass I find is very subtle, but it is there
 When the volume knob on my unit is at 9 o'clock or below in normal power mode, I also find the right channel is dead or close too it


----------



## lucidreamer

jdgszorro said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just start using my new iDSD Micro and have two issues:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Which phones are you using? The xBass on Micro is pretty subtle and I barely notice the difference myself even with planar phones. I just use it as a DAC only with an external PPA as an amplifier connected in direct mode. I do not care much about 3D because it sounds interesting but still changes how the original music sounds. Plus the pre-amp mode goes through an extra layer of amplification that slightly but still adds some distortion to the chain.
 My PPA has a permanent boost for bass that adds some real analog authority to the sound and I installed OPA637AP in it for more musical and laid-back sound. The built-in amp in Micro is pretty good too but it is not that great when compared to a dedicated audiophile Class A amp. It is still detailed and clean, but is a little on a lean side, has average soundstage and sounds more like a digital amplifier. Unless you are using Micro with an external amp - I would suggest that it is paired with one.


----------



## jdgszorro

I'm thinking in replace the iDSD Micro, but I see that others have the same volume balance Issue, May be a Design Issue ?
  
 With respect to the 3D and the XBASS, I can listen a subtle different with the 3D but with the XBASS I can't heard any different at all? .
  
 I tried with : 
  
 Philips Fidelio M1 (it's has enough bass but no difference).
  
 AKG K501 ( It's lack of Bass and turn on and no audible change).
  
 AD900X (It's lack a little Bass and no change too).
  
 In all the Post I can read the incredible 3D and XBASS function and ... Where are ?


----------



## ClieOS

lucidreamer said:


> Also, changing the filter options on my iDSD from Bitperfect to Standard, etc... does not seem to do anything with mp3 and Subsonic, at least I cannot notice any difference between them when listening to MP3s. However, I can hear huge difference when changing filters in DSD mode as already mentioned before.
> 
> Which sampling rate should I choose in the Sounds panel to play MP3 directly via Subsonic? Not sure if the filters make any difference in this mode at all.


 
  
 A few factors will affect how well you will notice the difference in filters: first, the quality of your music, especially with lossy codec. If the actual detail has been thrown away by the compression of the codec, then there won't be much left for iDSD to work with. Secondly, how resolving is your headphone. Lastly, how good is your hearing, by nature and by training (*and I am not joking). Sometime it takes a person awhile to really notice the fine detail in gears, and sometime it is due to hearing damage (even if you are not aware of) that you might never notice much difference.
  
 I'll suggest picking the highest sampling rate in the menu.
   
 



jdgszorro said:


> I'm thinking in replace the iDSD Micro, but I see that others have the same volume balance Issue, May be a Design Issue ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Channel imbalance in lower volume is a common problem of all analog potentiometer. The only pots that don't suffer from such issue are either digital / hybrid (*which have their own set of problems) and very expensive one (*and it can be very very expensive and rather large in size). In many case, it is basically a compromise on which type of pot a designer want to use. The lesser evil, so to speak.


----------



## jdgszorro

clieos said:


> A few factors will affect how well you will notice the difference in filters: first, the quality of your music, especially with lossy codec. If the actual detail has been thrown away by the compression of the codec, then there won't be much left for iDSD to work with. Secondly, how resolving is your headphone. Lastly, how good is your hearing, by nature and by training (*and I am not joking). Sometime it takes a person awhile to really notice the fine detail in gears, and sometime it is due to hearing damage (even if you are not aware of) that you might never notice much difference.
> 
> I'll suggest picking the highest sampling rate in the menu.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, I'm in Hifi audio from about one year maybe my ear its not able or not sufficient trainned to listen the differences, I'll work hard to learn.
 I think that the different with the filters would be stronger. And the Xbass is not audible for me off course. I can heard a little POP when I turn on/off the filter the same with the 3D but it's only thing that I listen 
  
 Thanks


----------



## gixxerwimp

gr8soundz said:


> Tried the trial version and UAPP works perfectly. I'll be buying the full version shortly.
> 
> Now able to playback using the Micro with my Note 3 at correct, different bit-rates and it sounds great!
> 
> Shame Google isn't taking Android usb audio more seriously (UAPP has all the settings that should be stock by now).


 
  
 Glad to hear that UAPP works properly on your Note 3 to the micro. Knowing this helps with my buying decision.
  
 As for Android USB audio support, I think *ClieOS*'s post above sums it up fairly well. The lack of universal compatibility is the price we pay for the flexibility of Android. Personally, I'll gladly pay that price over being told what I can and can't do by crApple 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I'll never forgive them for turning my iPad2 into a slug after updating to iOS7/8 - no way back).
   





> *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Now, to put the long story short - each implementation of Android is different, as intended by Google to allow for greater freedom for the smartphone maker to implement whichever feature they want.That's why the same version of Andorid works with USB DAC on some models but not on others. For example, Xperia Z2 on 4.4.3 after the Sept 2014 update supports USB DAC natively, yet your S4 on 4.4.4. doesn't. But as you have said, some of the basic requirement must be met for it to work, and host mode for audio is one of such requirement. My point is that, without audio host mode, there is little to no chance that USB DAC will work, regardless of what firmware iDSD is running. Even with audio host mode, there is still no guarantee that it will work. But at least it might work with simpler, USB Audio Class 1 DAC, such as those based on PCM270x chips.


----------



## Triodemode

lucidreamer said:


> Which phones are you using? The xBass on Micro is pretty subtle and I barely notice the difference myself even with planar phones. I just use it as a DAC only with an external PPA as an amplifier connected in direct mode. I do not care much about 3D because it sounds interesting but still changes how the original music sounds. Plus the pre-amp mode goes through an extra layer of amplification that slightly but still adds some distortion to the chain.
> My PPA has a permanent boost for bass that adds some real analog authority to the sound and I installed OPA637AP in it for more musical and laid-back sound. The built-in amp in Micro is pretty good too but it is not that great when compared to a dedicated audiophile Class A amp. It is still detailed and clean, but is a little on a lean side, has average soundstage and sounds more like a digital amplifier. Unless you are using Micro with an external amp - I would suggest that it is paired with one.


 

 Excellent summation of the ifi micro's headphone section and is what I experience as well.  Why they did not install two levels of Xbass and offer a class A mode of operation to better sonically match the outstanding DAC section makes no sense to me.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> Excellent summation of the ifi micro's headphone section and is what I experience as well.  Why they did not install two levels of Xbass and offer a class A mode of operation to better sonically match the outstanding DAC section makes no sense to me.


 
  
 Because there is only that much space and battery life you can sqeeze into a device before it becomes impractical, and iDSD is already not a small device. Also, analog section usually needs more parts compared to the digital section when the design gets more complex.


----------



## Turrican2

ifi audio said:


> *Beta firmware - Testing Solutions to Spotify/Tidal streaming on Android and DSD256 on MAC*
> 
> 
> *Warning.
> ...


 
 WOW!!!
  
 Just updated to 4.8.4 and am now enjoying TIDAL streaming via my OnePlus One phone (kitkat) and Micro i-DSD
  
  
 Thanks for this ifi, this has been on my wishlist for a long time now, you guys are miracle workers


----------



## MattTCG

I agree that the xbass on the idsd is subtle. But with the ican there are three levels of xbass which adds serious and unmistakable punch to the lower frequency.


----------



## Sound Eq

is it possible to ask change in bass by change of firmware, really the xbass is really little
  
 ifi dsd need some more bass punch
  
 can that be done ifi , maybe at least give us an option if that is possible as the bass is in real need for more puch


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> is it possible to ask change in bass by change of firmware, really the xbass is really little
> 
> ifi dsd need some more bass punch
> 
> can that be done ifi , maybe at least give us an option if that is possible as the bass is in real need for more puch




It's not possible. There is no DSP in the iDSD. XBASS is an analogue circuit.


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> Because there is only that much space and battery life you can sqeeze into a device before it becomes impractical, and iDSD is already not a small device. Also, analog section usually needs more parts compared to the digital section when the design gets more complex.


 

 Size is not an issue to add a few more SMD parts and a two or three position switch to give more boost to the Xbass function, which several here note as being too subtle. 
  
 Regarding the Class A biasing switch replacing the Turbo option, I don't think circuit real estate is the issue.  iFi stated earlier that battery life made their decison to avoid Class A. IMO however, battery life should be no less with Class A than using the Turbo power option (which few ever use, particularly in a portable environment).
  
 I would gladly trade the turbo function for a few hours listening time on battery in Class A to hear all the sonic bliss the DAC is producing.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> Size is not an issue to add a few more SMD parts and a two or three position switch to give more boost to the Xbass function, which several here note as being too subtle.
> 
> Regarding the Class A biasing switch replacing the Turbo option, I don't think circuit real estate is the issue.  iFi stated earlier that battery life made their decison to avoid Class A. IMO however, battery life should be no less with Class A than using the Turbo power option (which few ever use, particularly in a portable environment).
> 
> I would gladly trade the turbo function for a few hours listening time on battery in Class A to hear all the sonic bliss the DAC is producing.


 
  
 Having actually looked at the XBass circuit on iDSD micro's PCB, space is quite an issue, I can assure you - and we are not talking about some tiny 0805 resistor here, but mainly 2010 and 2512 stuff. Of course there is still an off chance that they did can put everything in, then the question becomes - is it possible to put enough features so everyone will guaranteed be happy? Probably not, then it is just an executive decision to keep what they believe are important for most people.
  
 The problem isn't whether Class A uses more power than Turbo mode or not, but whether Turbo (or any) mode in Class A will uses significantly more battery or not - I for one doesn't want my iDSD micro to run less than what it already has (Turbo mode only runs 6 hrs or so where Eco mode is just double that), as I am mainly a portable listener and doesn't what my iDSD micro to run out of battery on the road.


----------



## gr8soundz

The xbass is subtle but how effective it is also depends on the headphone being used.
  
 I actually wish the micro had a 3-way 3D switch. Again, depending on the headphone and song, switching the 3d on sometimes creates too much crossfeed.
  
 But we can't have it all. As much as ifi packed into the micro relative to its price, if the biggest issues we have are minute as this, that speaks to  what they accomplished. We may need to wait for the next version (perhaps the pro will have all additions we want; at a much higher price though).
  
 While we're at it, in addition to 3-way switches, class A amp, and a bigger battery w/ meter, why not add dual vacuum tubes and make the next micro the same size as the nano?


----------



## the-kraken

Anytime you set out to build something new - you make your peace with the fact that it will never be all things to all people. Looking at the ifi micro from the top-down: We have a solid feature set, great sound, and plentiful power... for a $499 USD price tag. 

We all get that folks want the perfect device, given away for free, delivered to their doorstep yesterday. But in the real world, every product is a collection of compromises. Just because there _are compromises_, doesn't mean the product isn't a successful one.


----------



## lucidreamer

the-kraken said:


> Anytime you set out to build something new - you make your peace with the fact that it will never be all things to all people. Looking at the ifi micro from the top-down: We have a solid feature set, great sound, and plentiful power... for a $499 USD price tag.
> 
> We all get that folks want the perfect device, given away for free, delivered to their doorstep yesterday. But in the real world, every product is a collection of compromises. Just because there _are compromises_, doesn't mean the product isn't a successful one.


 
 Agreed. I would still buy iDSD for its great native-playing DSD DAC for that same price tag, even it it did not have the headphone amplifier and the 3D/XBass sinceI would connect it to my PPA anyway. I listened to some of my jazz MP3s last night converted to DSD512 and I am afraid it will become a serious addiction


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> Having actually looked at the XBass circuit on iDSD micro's PCB, space is quite an issue, I can assure you - and we are not talking about some tiny 0805 resistor here, but mainly 2010 and 2512 stuff. Of course there is still an off chance that they did can put everything in, then the question becomes - is it possible to put enough features so everyone will guaranteed be happy? Probably not, then it is just an executive decision to keep what they believe are important for most people.
> 
> The problem isn't whether Class A uses more power than Turbo mode or not, but whether Turbo (or any) mode in Class A will uses significantly more battery or not - I for one doesn't want my iDSD micro to run less than what it already has (Turbo mode only runs 6 hrs or so where Eco mode is just double that), as I am mainly a portable listener and doesn't what my iDSD micro to run out of battery on the road.


 

 While some of the options I think could have been better implemented, nothing out there as of yet matches the iFi micro for it's DAC sound quality and feature set for the price.  These are changes that IMO would have made for an overall better sounding unit, and I absolutely get that for the size and price there will compromises.
  
 In the end I am of course just dreaming of the perfect one box solution, which for the size and price is maybe being a bit too greedy with the curerent state of technology.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

between the portable amps shown in this pic, iDSD's amp section is closest to a desktop amp performance.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ That's a nice complement. FWIW...I agree.


----------



## mdiogofs

lucidreamer said:


> Which phones are you using? The xBass on Micro is pretty subtle and I barely notice the difference myself even with planar phones. I just use it as a DAC only with an external PPA as an amplifier connected in direct mode. I do not care much about 3D because it sounds interesting but still changes how the original music sounds. Plus the pre-amp mode goes through an extra layer of amplification that slightly but still adds some distortion to the chain.
> My PPA has a permanent boost for bass that adds some real analog authority to the sound and I installed OPA637AP in it for more musical and laid-back sound. The built-in amp in Micro is pretty good too but it is not that great when compared to a dedicated audiophile Class A amp. It is still detailed and clean, but is a little on a lean side, has average soundstage and sounds more like a digital amplifier. Unless you are using Micro with an external amp - I would suggest that it is paired with one.


 
  
 If that's the finality why not just buy a nano iDSD and use it with an external amp?
  
 Or get the new iDAC 2 when available 
  


turrican2 said:


> WOW!!!
> 
> Just updated to 4.8.4 and am now enjoying TIDAL streaming via my OnePlus One phone (kitkat) and Micro i-DSD
> 
> ...


 
  
 Didn't quite get, didn't they say this update is redundant for the Micro?


----------



## lucidreamer

mdiogofs said:


> If that's the finality why not just buy a nano iDSD and use it with an external amp?
> 
> Or get the new iDAC 2 when available
> 
> ...


 
 Because DAC in Nano iDSD is not quite the same as in Micro iDSD (Maximum supported DSD128 or DSD256 vs DSD512 in Micro, if I remember correctly). There are some reviews online where people compared both Nano and Micro and the latter sounded better in every aspect. Nano is also a great little tool too, but if someone wants a better DAC in the $500-ish range with native DSD support - Micro is the way to go.
  
 One might just need to listen to lossy or lossless audio converted to DSD512 format played on Micro iDSD to understand what is it all about. I did a brief A/B test last night by listening to MP3 played thru ASIO and the same MP3 converted to DSD512 in Foobar (magenta light comes on) - there is a big audible difference in SQ with DSD512, the details are better, image is better, it sounds like the instruments are separated with even higher precision, especially when listening to jazz or classical type of music. Also, it gives the first impression that the treble is slightly rolled off, however, it is not quite right, all the highs sound the same, but it is smoother and more analog like type of sound, overall the music sounds more fluid and pleasant while regular MP3 playback sounds ok too, but it is more grainy and unrefined directly compared to DSD512. Please do not believe me - just try for yourself.


----------



## lucidreamer

From the iFi conversion to DSD guide:
  
*Note to users: I. We do not recommend converting lossless PCM tracks to DSD or altering lossless tracks. We recommend that they are played in their respective native format - PCM tracks remain PCM and DSD tracks remain DSD*
  
 Just curious... why iFi does not recommend to convert lossless PCM audio to DSD512, only MP3 files? There is a definite improvement in all types of formats converted to DSD512 in Foobar+plugins and playing them natively as DSD format on Micro iDSD as far as I can hear. That conversion does not modify the actual sound if I understand correctly, only changes the rate from 44.1kHz to 22.5mHz and avoids oversampling or digital filtering on the DAC side that is pretty much like Non oversampling method does. Why not just playing everything converted to DSD512?


----------



## mdiogofs

lucidreamer said:


> Because DAC in Nano iDSD is not quite the same as in Micro iDSD (Maximum supported DSD128 or DSD256 vs DSD512 in Micro, if I remember correctly). There are some reviews online where people compared both Nano and Micro and the latter sounded better in every aspect. Nano is also a great little tool too, but if someone wants a better DAC in the $500-ish range with native DSD support - Micro is the way to go.


 
 Isn't it the same BB PCM5102A in both iDSD? Probably iFi "after dac/ dac usage" implementation makes the difference here.


----------



## Dixter

I like to play all my music back at DSD...  the new updated version of Onkyo HF Player also does real time conversion just like Foobar and JRiver Media Center....
  
 In the settings for Onkyo it reads...  " When connected to an external DOP combatible USB DAC or similar, PCM audio formats such as MP3,AAC, and FLAC are converted to DSD before playback... Note that in HIgh Precision mode, the signal to noise ratio is improved..... "
  
 I think the " signal to noise ratio " maybe what your hearing as an improvement...
  
 If it sounds good to you then convert....   it is a DSD DAC so why not use it to native playback DSD and convert to DSD...


----------



## lucidreamer

mdiogofs said:


> Isn't it the same BB PCM5102A in both iDSD? Probably iFi "after dac/ dac usage" implementation makes the difference here.


 
 No, iDSD Micro has 2 BB DSD1793 DAC chips in it:
  

  
  
 http://audio-gizmo.com/ifi-idsd-micro-tear/


----------



## mdiogofs

Oh sorry, my bad. I presumed something that was not to be presumed. Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Turrican2

[quote name="mdiogofs" 


Didn't quite get, didn't they say this update is redundant for the Micro?
[/quote]

Actually they sent me the wrong file, although 4.8.4 did work with tidal etc. on my micro idsd, I got a hold of 4.8 and installed it, all is good


----------



## technobear

lucidreamer said:


> From the iFi conversion to DSD guide:
> 
> [COLOR=FF0000]*Note to users: I. We do not recommend converting lossless PCM tracks to DSD or altering lossless tracks. We recommend that they are played in their respective native format - PCM tracks remain PCM and DSD tracks remain DSD*[/COLOR]
> 
> Just curious... why iFi does not recommend to convert lossless PCM audio to DSD512, only MP3 files? There is a definite improvement in all types of formats converted to DSD512 in Foobar+plugins and playing them natively as DSD format on Micro iDSD as far as I can hear. That conversion does not modify the actual sound if I understand correctly, only changes the rate from 44.1kHz to 22.5mHz and avoids oversampling or digital filtering on the DAC side that is pretty much like Non oversampling method does. Why not just playing everything converted to DSD512?




We all apparently hear differently. I agree with iFi. Converting Red Book PCM to DSD512 is not to be recommended. Something is lost from the music. Call it life, realism, involvement.. it no longer sounds like the real thing. 

I also found the same with my MP3 files. Now maybe I have been lucky in my choice of MP3. They are all high bit-rate, 320kbps mostly, but I preferred them played straight rather than converted to DSD512. Same result as the Red Book stuff, the music lost life, realism, involvement and dynamics. It seemed softened somehow. 

Each to there own. Everyone should try it and decide but conversion of any PCM, even MP3, to DSD512 is not universally recommended.


----------



## kugino

yep. listen to native DSD as DSD. listen to PCM as PCM. don't know why people think converting PCM to DSD will sound better. iFi had a whole post last year on why keeping formats in their native formats is always preferred.


----------



## gr8soundz

I think the transcoding from pcm to dsd was only meant for older, crappy mp3s that sound harsh.
  
 The micro's insane 700k to 22mhz playback gives them a lot more room to breathe if you will; makes them sound smoother, less harsh, and more musical which is the main reason I got the ifi.
  
 I've got a few bad 128k mp3 rips and have been unable to find newer, higher quality recordings. 
  
 Always searching for better source material though as I agree native playback sounds more accurate. But the ifi has been my only solution so far.


----------



## kurb1980

Sorry to disagree when I upsample all PCM to DSD256 using the iDSD w/HQP this allows one to bypass the DAC's internal filters/interpolation to be done by the software thus reducing the iDSD's workload and giving it a direct signal.  By doing this using the HQP high quality filters you can reduce distortion, eliminate aliasing, and fine tune pre and post ringing.  I don't have any MP3's in my library so I can't speak to the SQ but I don't think its going to make the MP3 sound any better IMHO.


----------



## semeniub

kurb1980 said:


> Sorry to disagree when I upsample all PCM to DSD256 using the iDSD w/HQP this allows one to bypass the DAC's internal filters/interpolation to be done by the software thus reducing the iDSD's workload and giving it a direct signal.  By doing this using the HQP high quality filters you can reduce distortion, eliminate aliasing, and fine tune pre and post ringing.  I don't have any MP3's in my library so I can't speak to the SQ but I don't think its going to make the MP3 sound any better IMHO.


 

 Agree with this, and since HQPlayer is constantly evolving, it will only get better. Maybe a 3d-party, user-friendly interface for HQPlayer will become available too one day.
  
 By adjusting the filters in HQPlayer, I can find the sound that I want... very much like tube rolling, but without the cost of a supply of NOS tubes. 
  
 One of the micro iDSD's main technical advantages is that it handles the DSD feed natively, so I have confidence that whatever tweaking I have achieved in HQPlayer with it's PCM to DSD conversion filters has not been spoiled by some internal conversions/noise shaping taking place within the DAC chip itself.


----------



## gr8soundz

kurb1980 said:


> Sorry to disagree when I upsample all PCM to DSD256 using the iDSD w/HQP this allows one to bypass the DAC's internal filters/interpolation to be done by the software thus reducing the iDSD's workload and giving it a direct signal.  By doing this using the HQP high quality filters you can reduce distortion, eliminate aliasing, and fine tune pre and post ringing.  I don't have any MP3's in my library so I can't speak to the SQ but *I don't think its going to make the MP3 sound any better IMHO.*


 
  
 Try it for yourself.


----------



## KritiKal

Finally made the purchase after some serious contemplation, I'm really looking forward to it.
 Time to download some DSD files!


----------



## iFi audio

lucidreamer said:


> From the iFi conversion to DSD guide:
> 
> *Note to users: I. We do not recommend converting lossless PCM tracks to DSD or altering lossless tracks. We recommend that they are played in their respective native format - PCM tracks remain PCM and DSD tracks remain DSD*
> 
> Just curious... why iFi does not recommend to convert lossless PCM audio to DSD512, only MP3 files? There is a definite improvement in all types of formats converted to DSD512 in Foobar+plugins and playing them natively as DSD format on Micro iDSD as far as I can hear. That conversion does not modify the actual sound if I understand correctly, only changes the rate from 44.1kHz to 22.5mHz and avoids oversampling or digital filtering on the DAC side that is pretty much like Non oversampling method does. Why not just playing everything converted to DSD512?


 
  
 We feel that lossless PCM sounds better reproduced as that, especially with the bitperfect filter.
  
 However, there is no damage (other than to the music) when playing things differently. So everyone should try the different options and choose what suits them best. 
  
 The Guide how to convert to DSD256/512 for MP3 shows the principle, if you want to do that for all PCM audio, sure, your call. Just listen both ways first - then pick what you feel sounds best to your ears.


----------



## lucidreamer

My home HP Envy laptop works great with Foobar (DSD512 conversion) but has an audible CPU fan noise that is pretty annoying especially when listening at low volumes. I have been contemplating into getting one of those cheap netbooks for under $100 recently but came across a better solution:
  
 http://www.staples.com/ASUS-X205TA-HATM0103-Notebook-PC/product_1530327#pr-header-back-to-top-link
  
 I already picked up one from Staples last night and tweaked it to death till 3 am last night (what would I do without coffee this morning?). There are not too many bloatware installed on that little guy, any windows program can be used just fine, unless it is a CPU killer, of course.
  
 This is an atom quad-core totally silent(!!!) Win 8.1 laptop for $179, it was on sale for $99 last Black Friday but who cares now anyway. It has only 32Gigs of SSD and 2G or RAM but for basis music streaming, YouTube, internet browsing and casual light work - it is more than enough, more memory can be installed using the portable HD or microSD card up to 256Gigs. It is pretty light and small actually. The claimed battery life is 12 hrs but in reality it should be around 8 hrs, I am running it since 9am this morning and it says 58% remaining after almost 4 hours of non-stop usage, but I did some installation and optimization on the battery that could have used some juice.
  
 The latest driver 2.23 installed successfully but iDSD Micro was not recognized in the Device Manager and showed some error code in hex (with the yellow exclamation mark). The previous version worked like a charm - 2.20.
  
 It works pretty great actually and plays via Foobar in DSD256 without issues (knock on wood), the CPU load goes up around 45-50% with MP3s. But playing in DSD512 turned out a little stuttery, the CPU is not powerful enough and goes to 100% all the time. But honestly - I have hard time telling the difference between 256 and 512, so the former should be more than perfect.
  
 Overall - very happy with the upgrade (or downgrade, depending on what was lost and gained: the lower conversion rate or total absence of fan noise). If someone is looking to get a small yet potent little laptop to stream music via USB without the vacuum cleaner or turbo jet function built into the laptop  - this is a really great choice! I am glad not to have wasted $50-100 on a 5-year-old netbook junk that people still hunt for on eBay or Craigslist these days and got the brand-new one instead for $179 (+tax) with the same or better features.


----------



## gr8soundz

I have that same laptop (got it for $100 black friday).
  
 Good to hear it can do dsd256. I thought it would be too slow so never tried it.
  
 Actually use an i7 desktop with the Micro and have seen cpu use up to 40% when I push ALL settings to max it out.


----------



## kurb1980

gr8soundz said:


> I have that same laptop (got it for $100 black friday).
> 
> Good to hear it can do dsd256. I thought it would be too slow so never tried it.
> 
> Actually use an i7 desktop with the Micro and have seen cpu use up to 40% when I push ALL settings to max it out.



I'm a Mac user so DoP no ASIO ! Just curious you say 40% are you using the *2 variants for the filters? In my setup they make the sound thinner when upsampling using the higher bit rates?


----------



## gr8soundz

kurb1980 said:


> I'm a Mac user so DoP no ASIO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I normally use the middle filter (minimum phase in pcm; means standard in dsd I believe) although I couldn't detect any change in cpu use when switching the filter.
 I also use these settings in windows foobar:
  
 native asio
 dsd512
 sdm type d
  
 Average cpu use around 30% with those but can spike to 40.
  
 If I change to DoP and dsd256, cpu drops to around 18%.
  
 Also note that upsampling (or transcoding) to dsd/dop lowers the volume output so you may need to increase the volume when comparing to native playback.


----------



## kurb1980

Sorry, I noticed you said Foobar I though you where talking about HQP and its filters/modulators.  Interesting because DoP should have the higher processing because of the overhead?  ASIO should yield better CPU numbers since its streaming natively?  The highest the iDSD can do with DoP is DSD256 w/Mac, curious which sounds better ASIO, or DoP to your ear? 
  
 On the iDSD unit I have tried all the filters and have settled with Standard which works best with HQP's filters/modulators.  With MAC and DoP when I upsample to DSD256 my CPU averages 60-65% and gets my fan going continuously.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have settled on DSD128 using the poly sinc mp, ASDM5 modulator, and iDSD on Standard which in my setup sounds the most clean/open/right mix of air.


----------



## Franatic

kurb1980 said:


> Sorry, I noticed you said Foobar I though you where talking about HQP and its filters/modulators.  Interesting because DoP should have the higher processing because of the overhead?  ASIO should yield better CPU numbers since its streaming natively?  The highest the iDSD can do with DoP is DSD256 w/Mac, curious which sounds better ASIO, or DoP to your ear?
> 
> On the iDSD unit I have tried all the filters and have settled with Standard which works best with HQP's filters/modulators.  With MAC and DoP when I upsample to DSD256 my CPU averages 60-65% and gets my fan going continuously.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for sharing your settings and findings. I also use dsd over dop with my HQPlayer/Jplay combo......and I also find dsd256 puts too much strain on my cpu so I use dsd 128. I find a great advantage in dsd128 over dsd64 in that when you upsample your dsd to 128 you get rid of any hiss present if it was derived from analogue sources.
  
 I've decide that converting from pcm to dsd loses too much detail, although I love the smoothness and musicality it provides. It's a preference thing, and that might change.
  
 I have not tried standard filter on the micro recently. I will test it out again. I usually use minimum phase.


----------



## kurb1980

The problem with DSD64 has always been the large amount of ultra sonic noise that gets passed through.  DSD128 should be the minimum starting point when upsample especially when using 44.1kHz source material.  DSD128 moves a bit more of that noise further up the band making it less audible with the use of high quality filters and modulators whether 5th or '7th order preferred' yield some pretty awesome SQ.  Unfortunately the higher up you go the more processing power the CPU needs to process the algorithms and for me I think that's why DSD128 sounds better than DSD256 on my setup because of all the Macbook's noise from the fan etc getting in the the stream.  If I could I would go down the NAA route but I haven't found a NAA for dummies yet.


----------



## osiris1

kurb1980 said:


> The problem with DSD64 has always been the large amount of ultra sonic noise that gets passed through.  DSD128 should be the minimum starting point when upsample especially when using 44.1kHz source material.  DSD128 moves a bit more of that noise further up the band making it less audible with the use of high quality filters and modulators whether 5th or '7th order preferred' yield some pretty awesome SQ.  Unfortunately the higher up you go the more processing power the CPU needs to process the algorithms and for me I think that's why DSD128 sounds better than DSD256 on my setup because of all the Macbook's noise from the fan etc getting in the the stream.  If I could I would go down the NAA route but I haven't found a NAA for dummies yet.


 
 pardon my ignorance but what is NAA?


----------



## kurb1980

Network audio adapter 'NAA' is a way to stream audio using the adapter or router via ethernet or wireless bypassing your CPU by plugging your DAC into NAA and thus eliminating a noisy CPU that is passing noise to your DAC via USB.  HQP is designed to work with NAA the link below is the only server I know of that supports NAA for HQP out of the box.  Otherwise you will have to make your own the link below explains it further.
  
http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM1.html
  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/hqplayers-network-audio-adapter-13892/


----------



## tf1216

Hey kurb1980,

The Router etc. has a CPU and is otherwise built on identical tech as what you find in a PC and has the same issues. So "bypass CPU" is misleading. 

This server thing is a Pogoplug E02 Board in a nice case with some freeware based OS:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f3-article-comments/article-soul-music-sms-100-mini-server-review-20702/index5.html#post335269

Pogoplug E02 is an average computer:
http://www.amazon.com/Pogoplug-POGO-E02-Multimedia-Sharing-Device/dp/B0033WSDR4

It has a 1.2GHz CPU, so "bypassing the CPU" is not gonna happen with this device.


----------



## osiris1

kurb1980 said:


> Network audio adapter 'NAA' is a way to stream audio using the adapter or router via ethernet or wireless bypassing your CPU by plugging your DAC into NAA and thus eliminating a noisy CPU that is passing noise to your DAC via USB.  HQP is designed to work with NAA the link below is the only server I know of that supports NAA for HQP out of the box.  Otherwise you will have to make your own the link below explains it further.
> 
> http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM1.html
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/hqplayers-network-audio-adapter-13892/


 
 Thanks for these... I will read up on it.


----------



## kurb1980

Its not that its bypassing the CPU but rather doing the leg work and you are bypassing the USB hub by streaming it through the CPU network adapter.  I can't say if there is a huge difference in sound quality because I have not tried it.  But from what I gathered it is that it is supposed to improve the SQ but to what end that is uncertain.  It does seem intriguing at some point I would like to give it a try.  But right now I'm going to focus on a NAS setup which essentially would serve as a NAA if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Dixter

Just in case you'd like to test out different formats of DSD on your micro....
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/635-midsummer-night%92s-dream-compare-simultaneous-dsd64-and-dsd256-session-recordings/


----------



## kissmevn

Do you guys have any idea how to improve the "dryness" in the micro's mid ?
 Listening to revealing IEM like my K10 make the mid so unsatisfied 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I want a more lushful and seducing mid


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Question for *iFi Audio*.
  
 I did some RMAA measurements with the Custom Art Harmony 8 Pro (8 BA driver IEM).
  
 This graph is the Harmony 8 Pro paired with an iBasso DX50:
  

  
 I know that the DX50 has a small bass descending in the low bass regions, that is ok...
  
  
 This graph is the Harmony 8 Pro paired with the micro iDSD (Eco Mode, Bit perfect filter on, 3D and XBass off, IEMatch off):
  

  
 But why starting beginnig at approx 5000 Hz this drop? I tried with other devices (Smarthpones, other DAPs) there is no drop in the higher regions an the same test setup. I can't hear this drop, but why it is in the measurement? I repeated this multiple times.


----------



## semeniub

h1f1add1cted said:


> Question for *iFi Audio*.
> 
> I did some RMAA measurements with the Custom Art Harmony 8 Pro (8 BA driver IEM).
> 
> ...


 

 It must be my weary vision on a late Friday afternoon... you could "almost" flip your micro curve so that it overlays onto your DX50 curve (i.e. reverse the frequencies in your micro curve). Spooky - it must be the Friday afternoon happy hour vision.


----------



## ClieOS

h1f1add1cted said:


> Question for *iFi Audio*.
> 
> ...
> 
> But why starting beginnig at approx 5000 Hz this drop? I tried with other devices (Smarthpones, other DAPs) there is no drop in the higher regions an the same test setup. I can't hear this drop, but why it is in the measurement? I repeated this multiple times.


 
  
 That's exactly how a Bit Perfect filter should look like on an FR curve, so nothing wrong there. If you need an explanation, I'll suggest you start researching the topic of NOS (Non-OverSampling), which is what Bit Perfect filter is.
  
 Here is how all three filter settings look like:
  





 
  
 p/s: FYI, the bass roll-off on DX50 is caused by output capacitors.
  
 p/s 2: forgot to mention the above FR curve is for 16/44.1 (and 48) only. Upsampling will result in a different looking curve.


----------



## jexby

side related note:
 have a cool demo unit of the iFi iPower 9V which arrived yesterday.
  
 since this is the 9V, and not the 5V version of the product,  can't use it with any custom split USB cables for quiet USB power legs.
  
  just waiting on a couple product arrivals such as UpTone Audio USB Regen and perhaps iCan to try out with iPower.
 more info in the coming week or so....


----------



## h1f1add1cted

clieos said:


> That's exactly how a Bit Perfect filter should look like on an FR curve, so nothing wrong there. If you need an explanation, I'll suggest you start researching the topic of NOS (Non-OverSampling), which is what Bit Perfect filter is.
> 
> Here is how all three filter settings look like:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Big thanks, for your explanations. I remember now dark back to your great nano iDSD review and you already explained there for measurements would be the standard filter the best.


----------



## WNBC

With my recent acquisition of the K10 I am also thinking that I might need to get a separate amp.  With everything else, the iDSD has been pretty good with just the integrated headphone amp.  I'll need to read up on the iDSD Pro or iCan Pro before exploring other options.  I believe I read there will be tube option for the iDSD Pro.  That should provide some lushness.  Quick list of other options would be Quickstep or Portaphile.    
  
  
 Quote:


kissmevn said:


> Do you guys have any idea how to improve the "dryness" in the micro's mid ?
> Listening to revealing IEM like my K10 make the mid so unsatisfied
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gr8soundz

jexby said:


> side related note:
> have a cool demo unit of the iFi iPower 9V which arrived yesterday.
> 
> since this is the 9V, and not the 5V version of the product,  can't use it with any custom split USB cables for quiet USB power legs.
> ...


 
  
 I'm thinking of getting the 5v iPower for the idsd micro (using a Mikrotik usb power injector).
  
 Not sure if it'll make a huge difference since the Micro has internal battery but I plan to try it using a split usb cable for data only to motherboard.
  
 Don't think the 5v is avail yet but I'd love to hear if any version of the iPower makes a big enough difference.


----------



## Bilbow

gr8soundz said:


> I'm thinking of getting the 5v iPower for the idsd micro (using a Mikrotik usb power injector).
> 
> Not sure if it'll make a huge difference since the Micro has internal battery but I plan to try it using a split usb cable for data only to motherboard.
> 
> Don't think the 5v is avail yet but I'd love to hear if any version of the iPower makes a big enough difference.




I got the iUSB Power plus Gemini cable a week ago for use with a 6 month old, well run in Micro IDSD. I also had the similar doubts about the difference it would make but can report the difference is easily noticeable and well worth it in my case. I'm not sure how much specific impact the iUSB power has to sound vs Gemini cable though as I got them both at the same time. Bass in particular is quite a bit cleaner to the extent that the XBass switch of the iDSD can now be used, whereas before I found it made the sound a tad too rich and generally left it off.


----------



## gr8soundz

bilbow said:


> I got the iUSB Power plus Gemini cable a week ago for use with a 6 month old, well run in Micro IDSD. I also had the similar doubts about the difference it would make but can report the difference is easily noticeable and well worth it in my case. I'm not sure how much specific impact the iUSB power has to sound vs Gemini cable though as I got them both at the same time. Bass in particular is quite a bit cleaner to the extent that the XBass switch of the iDSD can now be used, whereas before I found it made the sound a tad too rich and generally left it off.


 
  
 I noticed improvement in bass but also soundstage (now use the xbass and 3d less as well).
  
 Adding ferrite cores to each end of the usb cable increased soundstage even further.
  
 That got me to finally order a gemini cable and hope separating data/power will add a bit more.


----------



## jexby

after using iFi micro iDSD almost exclusively with IEMs for months, took it to the office for 
 30min of back n forth connecting HE-400i to:
  
 modi 2 uber + Lyr 2
 and
 iFi micro iDSD
  
 must say I'm still impressed by iDSD, it's a great sounding pairing!  
  
 would iDSD micro be my end game and completely replace a separate DAC+Amp on the home desktop, maybe not.
 would iDSD micro be the perfect rig at a work office, yes! easily for the money.
  
 the schiit stack delivered more natural sounding presentation likely due to the slight tube warmth of lyr 2. with larger overall appearance to the music soundstage.  instrument location was great, vocals super clear.
  
 but iDSD didn't miss out on much- had good bass and depth.   especially with the subtle Xbass switch on.
 maybe the music had a bit less "body or width" at certain times, but that was hard to pin point.
 vocals slightly more forward on iDSD micro, but instrument placement was still good.
  
 the 3D switch on iDSD micro actually made soundstage more narrow with HE-400i, so I preferred that turned off.
 iDSD micro Amp settings were at "Normal" with IEMatch off.  volume got very loud at 11am on the dial, blistering loud at 1.
 tons of power to spare.
  
 can't imagine anyone would be unhappy with iDSD micro unless you had a lot more money to spend,
 or somehow the synergy with the iDSD amp section + headphones sounded a little too thin or sparse.


----------



## TheAttorney

> Originally Posted by *jexby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> can't imagine anyone would be unhappy with iDSD micro unless you had a lot more money to spend,
> or somehow the synergy with the iDSD amp section + headphones sounded a little too thin or sparse.


 
 I guess that the ones unhappy are the ones that haven't come across the right way of driving the iDSD, which changes its sound considerably depending on s/w upsampling/converting/optimizing, in combination with its own filter settings. And it realy shines with the higher sampling rates. So if someone asks me "What does the iDSD sound like?", my answer is "Which one of dozens of iDSD sounds would you like me to comment on?" 
  
 Furthermore, I agree with some comments that the headphone amp section is a little more forward than line out, so it probably mates better with neutral/darker phones - my Senn HD600s are a great match. And even though Economy setting has more than enough volume for the HD600s, it does sound brighter-in-good-way and more dynamic when in Normal mode.
  
 Back to the iDSD (analogue DSD) filters, I'm torn between the more dynamic Extended mode vs smoother Extreme mode. It doesn't help comparisons that Extreme is considerably quieter. My remaining open question is how a mere filter can change the overall volume by such a large amount?


----------



## Poimandres

Does anyone have the idsd and the Dac mini CX? I was looking for thoughts strictly on a Dac basis. Looking for something to pair with a liquid carbon. 

Is the line out variable on the ifi?


----------



## Emerpus

poimandres said:


> Does anyone have the idsd and the Dac mini CX? I was looking for thoughts strictly on a Dac basis. Looking for something to pair with a liquid carbon.
> 
> Is the line out variable on the ifi?


 
  
 In Pre-Amp mode, the output is variable. And yes, I'm planning on using my iDSD Micro as a DAC to the LC in 4 months time


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Could please tell me anyone details about the amplifer section from the micro iDSD? What chip etc. is used? For the dac section I know is a dual Texas Instruments DSD1793 chip used.
  
 Big thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

h1f1add1cted said:


> Could please tell me anyone details about the amplifer section from the micro iDSD? What chip etc. is used? For the dac section I know is a dual Texas Instruments DSD1793 chip used.
> 
> Big thanks.


 
  
 If I am not mistaken, it has dual OPA1642 for gain and TPA6120A2 for buffer.


----------



## Tobias89

sound eq said:


> alright i ordered one and i hope it meets my needs and expectations
> 
> so to use it with audeze lcd2 and iPod whats the preferred settings
> 
> and to use it with the Shure 846 iem whats the best settings


 
 Hi @hykhleif! How did the 846 pair with the ifi micro and what settings did u use?


----------



## mdiogofs

lucidreamer said:


> No, iDSD Micro has 2 BB DSD1793 DAC chips in it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Actually, been reading in many places that the nano iDSD also has the DSD1793...And saw a post by iFi saying they both share the same DAC.


----------



## john57

mdiogofs said:


> Actually, been reading in many places that the nano iDSD also has the DSD1793...And saw a post by iFi saying they both share the same DAC.


 
 Yes they are the same the micro uses two DSD1793 the nano uses one DSD1793 as does the new iDAC2 and the Retro.


----------



## Seamaster

tobias89 said:


> Hi @hykhleif
> ! How did the 846 pair with the ifi micro and what settings did u use?




My 846 sound wonderful with Micro, a little bright with standdard filter to MY tast but nothing major beuase I use them with 3D on, which has adds little treble tilt a trade-off for better sound stage, IMHO. I leave the bass off, there are plenty of bass with 846 already. I use the mid sensitivity setting because I can't turn up the volume past 9:00 position when using off position,it is a safety measure more than anyting else.


----------



## MattTCG

As much as I love the idsd I'm letting it go to free up funds for an Ether purchase. Shoot me a message if anyone is interested.


----------



## Sound Eq

seamaster said:


> My 846 sound wonderful with Micro, a little bright with standdard filter to MY tast but nothing major beuase I use them with 3D on, which has adds little treble tilt a trade-off for better sound stage, IMHO. I leave the bass off, there are plenty of bass with 846 already. I use the mid sensitivity setting because I can't turn up the volume past 9:00 position when using off position,it is a safety measure more than anyting else.


 
 that would my answer as well


----------



## ty123

Just got the iDSD micro and it is awesome. I'm using it with HD650's. So any reccomendations from experienced on how to get the most out of it? Currently playing my audio straight from spotify on MacBook.


----------



## iancraig10

Look for some higher resolution files to play. 

Not sure what works on a Mac, but I use Foobar and HQ Player. HQ player with DSD or hi res FLAC is extremely good.


----------



## maricius

I wonder how an iDSD + Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon would fare against the Hugo or maybe an iDSD + ALO Continental Dual Mono to put the prices closer. Something tells me the Hugo wouldn't hold out. That being said, words aren't as meaningful until they're put into practice and Mike Mercer has done just that, at least for the Carbon.


----------



## lucidreamer

ty123 said:


> Just got the iDSD micro and it is awesome. I'm using it with HD650's. So any reccomendations from experienced on how to get the most out of it? Currently playing my audio straight from spotify on MacBook.


 
  
 I vouch for Foobar too, have not tried HQ Player yet, but Foobar with foo_dsd_asio plugin to convert to DSD is really awesome! A decent audiophile grade headphone amp is a good idea to enjoy even better sound from iDSD Micro. Maybe a pair of planar headphones to compliment the good amp, I have one and only use dynamic headphones when watching movies, iUSB Power with Gemini cables? (though I am not 100% convinced that the iUSB-powered sound is $400-better than the battery-powered sound in iDSD).... that list can go on forever(only money is the object).


----------



## lucidreamer

Hi,
  
 Can someone recommend the best audio quality from the SDM types dropdown in the foo_dsd_asio plugin when converting from PCM to DSD? I currently use SDM Type D (FP32) because it seems to be a little bit more detailed than Type C recommended by iFi tutorial. But I could be wrong, the only thing for sure is that Type D causes more CPU load (about 70-80%) compared to Type C (about 50%) on my ASUS 205TA laptop running ATOM processor. But the sound quality between those Sigma Delta Modulation choices when outputting to DSD is really very tiny. But still... any suggestions?


----------



## Franatic

In my endless search for better audio, I came across a very excellent free player: Bug Head Emperor. I have HQPlayer which is great and an upsampling monster, but BHE may be better.
  
 The developer is an independent self taught, eccentric Japanese guy who must be a genius. The manual is mostly Japanese, but if you got some smarts you can figure it out. He recently added dsd support, even Dop. I don't know what he does, but he's got some magic. I like everything played in native format and sample rate.
  
 Here is a download link for those interested:



Bug head Emperor 4.70  
 Note: If you use Dop, the volume control must be set to max to work.
  
 Enjoy


----------



## ty123

I'm looking for am improvement without spending any money or very little. So I guess I'll have to download some CD's, download them, and use an HQ player. Is there really an audible different between Spotify's 320 kbps and a HQ player at like 900-1100 Kbps


----------



## Ovrki1

This product has a USB-A male socket. Like many of us, we own high quality USB-A male cables. Therefore, a female adapter is needed in order to use our USB-A male cables. (hopefully I explained that right)

Is there such a thing as high quality USB adapters or will any adapter from the local store work without deteriorating sound quality?


----------



## Sound Eq

today to my surprise my sony xperia z ultra got updated to lolipop and now i am connecting it directly to my ifi micro dsd and i can use any music player boy it sounds so good now, so i am not only bound to using uapp or onkyo hf
  
 i know this is not maybe of interest to anyone of u but i like what i am hearing
  
 i am using jet audio with all its dsp effects and it sounds dam amazing
  
 so my setup rig is smaller now
  
 z ultra- ifi micro dsd-- alo mk3 --- audeze all balanced
  
 now i will experiment with viper4android to go extra miles with dsp processing
  
 its just amazing using all these players in android


----------



## Sound Eq

ty123 said:


> Just got the iDSD micro and it is awesome. I'm using it with HD650's. So any reccomendations from experienced on how to get the most out of it? Currently playing my audio straight from spotify on MacBook.


 
 go use android phone with lollipop and use all players u like to play with there are tons of things u can use now


----------



## gr8soundz

lucidreamer said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can someone recommend the best audio quality from the SDM types dropdown in the foo_dsd_asio plugin when converting from PCM to DSD? I currently use SDM Type D (FP32) because it seems to be a little bit more detailed than Type C recommended by iFi tutorial. But I could be wrong, the only thing for sure is that Type D causes more CPU load (about 70-80%) compared to Type C (about 50%) on my ASUS 205TA laptop running ATOM processor. But the sound quality between those Sigma Delta Modulation choices when outputting to DSD is really very tiny. But still... any suggestions?


 
  
 I use type D (without the fp32). Imo, it sounds the best (less harshness) but does use a lot more cpu. I agree the changes are subtle but, for me at least, making a few subtle changes here or there can add up to making a bigger difference.
  
 The settings in the iFi tutorial are recommended to work best with most computers (hence the usb sampling rate on "extra safe" when the others work just as well on a fast enough pc). 
  
 If your pc will only be doing playback through the Micro, any settings should be fine as long as your not hitting 100% load. However, if you'll be browsing the web or doing other stuff at the same time, the sound may distort until you change some settings. Even then it may still distort occasionally as Foobar's dsd plugin can be buggy.


----------



## lucidreamer

Thanks! I just compared Type  D and it does seem to sound a little more cleaner or at least the same as FP32 Type D.


----------



## Franatic

ovrki1 said:


> This product has a USB-A male socket. Like many of us, we own high quality USB-A male cables. Therefore, a female adapter is needed in order to use our USB-A male cables. (hopefully I explained that right)
> 
> Is there such a thing as high quality USB adapters or will any adapter from the local store work without deteriorating sound quality?


 

 I had one made by Forza Audio works that I am very happy with. I paid 59 euros. Here is a picture. I believe it helped Sq some....added depth. 
  
 I was very unhappy about ifi's choice of usb input connector. I had bought a gemini cable and did not like the idea of inputting through a very generic adapter. If you want one, you can email Matthew, he'll know what you need.  matthew@forzaaudioworks.com


----------



## Ovrki1

franatic said:


> I had one made by Forza Audio works that I am very happy with. I paid 59 euros. Here is a picture. I believe it helped Sq some....added depth.
> 
> 
> I was very unhappy about ifi's choice of usb input connector. I had bought a gemini cable and did not like the idea of inputting through a very generic adapter. If you want one, you can email Matthew, he'll know what you need.  matthew@forzaaudioworks.com


First off, thanks a lot for your reply.

So here is what's happening. A couple months ago I started researching for my first audio setep. I obliviously went with an iFi Micro to pair with my HE-400i purchase. Next, I got an Audio-Technica interconnect to replace the generic piece. Lastly, I went with two FAW cables; a LOD for android devices and a copper series for my computer. The thing was, when I bought the FAW cables, I didn't know the iFi dac was going to be this type of socket.

With that said, I have now received this dac only to find out that it's not "the normal"! This choice is not being questioned by me, I'm just upset with myself for not doing enough research. An iFi Micro would still had been the dac for me but I would have did something differently on the cable side.

I ordered FAW cables a few weeks ago but the package awaits. I'm certain they're not going to fit my iFi product so I'm pretty bummed out to realize that not only might I need an adapter, but to think I possibly could have had the USB custom to properly fit.

I wonder if I can send the cables back and have Matthew detach the male end and replace it with a female to avoid having to use an adapter.


----------



## Franatic

Based upon my experience with him, he is open to doing most anything you want. That would be the smart thing to do....and you would avoid an extra connection. It's a shame you didn't realize when you had the cable made.
  
 He made that adapter for me and also recently recabled my Beyer T1s, which have a solder connection on them. He even made an extension cord of my old cable for me. Here is the cable I got:
 http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=72
 It sounds awesome. It made the T1s more dynamic and revealing....very happy with that. It is nice to have someone do custom work, and really great work at that. Let us know how you make out with that cable.


----------



## Ovrki1

franatic said:


> It's a shame you didn't realize when you had the cable made.


Tell me about it! So it's either buy an adapter from him or send the cables back and pay him to switch out the USB connectors. That is if he will even say yes.

Nevertheless, I used the Micro the other night by plugging the stock cable into my computer. I was like "damn this is loud"! Loud and crisp, the way I like my music.


----------



## KritiKal

franatic said:


> I had one made by Forza Audio works that I am very happy with. I paid 59 euros. Here is a picture. I believe it helped Sq some....added depth.
> 
> 
> I was very unhappy about ifi's choice of usb input connector. I had bought a gemini cable and did not like the idea of inputting through a very generic adapter. If you want one, you can email Matthew, he'll know what you need.  matthew@forzaaudioworks.com




I just paid for my cable yesterday, USB A Female to Micro, Copper, Nylon sleeve, 5cm and it came to €59.
Obviously you wanted to use your Gemini cable, but if some people are weighing up getting an adaptor made up or not for use with a mobile device, it might just be worth getting an entirely neW cable.


----------



## kissmevn

franatic said:


> In my endless search for better audio, I came across a very excellent free player: Bug Head Emperor. I have HQPlayer which is great and an upsampling monster, but BHE may be better.
> 
> The developer is an independent self taught, eccentric Japanese guy who must be a genius. The manual is mostly Japanese, but if you got some smarts you can figure it out. He recently added dsd support, even Dop. I don't know what he does, but he's got some magic. I like everything played in native format and sample rate.
> 
> ...


 
 I tried this software this morning, and damn. It kicked my gear to a new level. Bigger soundstage, better clarity, detail and better bass. 
 I set at 2GB/2GB/4GB/4GB at run. Can you tell me how to configure this to a better sound ?
 And I can see there are Bug emperor and Infinity Blade. Are they different ?


----------



## Franatic

kissmevn said:


> I tried this software this morning, and damn. It kicked my gear to a new level. Bigger soundstage, better clarity, detail and better bass.
> I set at 2GB/2GB/4GB/4GB at run. Can you tell me how to configure this to a better sound ?
> And I can see there are Bug emperor and Infinity Blade. Are they different ?


 

 Yes, glad you tried it. There is a thread already started. Let's revive it. I don't want hijack the micro thread.
 I'll give you an answer here:
Bug head emperor player - audiophile player from Japan


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Got a custom coax interconnect for my DX50 for the micro iDSD today:
  

  

  

  
 10 times better than the iBasso stock cable.


----------



## iancraig10

Crikey, that looks positively ferocious!! What a monster. Where did you get it?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Got it from an German custom cable maker (Outstanding ear), this is the first version, this special build only for my request. But really great high quality work.


----------



## lucidreamer

I tried installing the BHE yesterday and did not enjoy it that much. It sounded good but the whole interface is weird and totally confusing even for me with years of computer programming experience. Maybe it just needs some good documentation in English to understand how to set it up. It has some filtering options which affect the sound quality, but lacks streaming which is a big show stopper for me. For my music playing preferences - I am seriously up to using my Subsonic web client streaming the playlists to external Foobar player that plays MP3 (converted to DSD or as-is), Subsonic can also convert FLAC/WAV files to MP3 or play them as is via Foobar and have great interface overall, I used it for years.
  
 What I am not sure is why the BHE could be superior to Foobar if both BHE or Foobar can play MP3 or other files in ASIO mode (which is bit-accurate for DAC and bypasses the Windows kernel system). It is the encoding MP3 algorithm which is important to convert PCM uncompressed to MP3 but when decoding those files to PCM - pretty much every player sounds the same, I cannot detect any quality differences between Foobar or WinAmp playing the same MP3 track. If the BHE uses special filters to make the music sound 'better', then it is a different case, we are talking processed sound compared to accurate unmodified reproduction. But I could be wrong here, because there is not much documentation on that player, all the videos I found on YouTube was in Japanese.


----------



## Ovrki1

kritikal said:


> I just paid for my cable yesterday, USB A Female to Micro, Copper, Nylon sleeve, 5cm and it came to €59.
> Obviously you wanted to use your Gemini cable, but if some people are weighing up getting an adaptor made up or not for use with a mobile device, it might just be worth getting an entirely neW cable.


On the site it just gives you the option for type-A but no selection for whether male or female. Did you ask him to make with a female connector or did it just come like that without asking?


----------



## KritiKal

ovrki1 said:


> On the site it just gives you the option for type-A but no selection for whether male or female. Did you ask him to make with a female connector or did it just come like that without asking?




Yeah, I was hoping there would be a ready made cable with a female connection so there wasn't a wait, but no luck. I contacted Matez/Matthew through the website asking if it was possible for him to make me one with a female connection and he said it was no problem at all. I'm hoping this means he's got everything in stock so he can make it up as quickly as any other custom.


----------



## Sound Eq

hello guys i am back to using the ifi micro dsd with my sony z ultra after i updated to lollipop so i have few questions
  
 1- which is the best of the best player now on android to work with idsd
 2- what happened with the firmware upgrade and is it important now with lollipop
 3- right now i am using neutron player and i see the light indicator is yellow although the files are 44.1 why is that?
 4- if neutron is the best player please advise the ultimate setup to work with idsd


----------



## lucidreamer

sound eq said:


> hello guys i am back to using the ifi micro dsd with my sony z ultra after i updated to lollipop so i have few questions
> 
> 1- which is the best of the best player now on android to work with idsd
> 2- what happened with the firmware upgrade and is it important now with lollipop
> ...


 
  
 I have this on my Android tablet: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro but I have not tried playing DSD on it yet, using my ASUS 205TA instead of Android because it is more versatile with Foobar, has better Wi-Fi, etc.


----------



## KritiKal

sound eq said:


> hello guys i am back to using the ifi micro dsd with my sony z ultra after i updated to lollipop so i have few questions
> 
> 1- which is the best of the best player now on android to work with idsd
> 2- what happened with the firmware upgrade and is it important now with lollipop
> ...




Tried them all, I always go back to HF Player. Does everything I want it to and does it well.


----------



## mogulmaster

Ok two things:
  
 1. My stock audeze cable has likely frayed inside, and now my right channel is in/out. Definitely the cable. Any cable recommendations for durability/flexibility, so I don't have to replace a cable every ~14 months? (I know, wrong thread but I think there are a lot of Audeze users here).
  
  
 2. I own the LCD-2, but I really, really want the LCD-X. Many users here are doing NORMAL with IEMatch set to "high-sensitivity" with the LCD-X, as NORMAL without IEMatch engaged is too loud/too little control on volume pot. *Does NORMAL + High-sensitivity lower the sound quality? *
  
 - I'm convinced that I cannot run LCD-X on ECO mode as Audeze recommends 1w of power, and I have experienced decreased dynamics on the LCD-2 in ECO mode.


----------



## PedroH

I'm very happy with the sound quality of my iFi IDSD.
  
 However, one thing that happens and surprises me is that battery runs out while I'm listening to it connected to a powered computer.
  
 Shouldn't my MacBookPro be able to power it via USB? Looks like the iDSD spends more power while playing than is getting from the USB and ends up running out.
  
 Is this normal?


----------



## jexby

pedroh said:


> I'm very happy with the sound quality of my iFi IDSD.
> 
> However, one thing that happens and surprises me is that battery runs out while I'm listening to it connected to a powered computer.
> 
> ...




It depends.
Do you connect the USB cable before turning on IDSD knob?

What is the Amp power and IEM setting at?
Turbo mode could deplete the battery even while plugged into a laptop.


----------



## maricius

h1f1add1cted said:


> Got a custom coax interconnect for my DX50 for the micro iDSD today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I never tried any coax cable other than the stock iBasso one. What are the differences in sound quality if there are any? Also, I didn't know the iBasso could work with 3.5mm TRS terminated jacks. I thought it was exclusive to the TS jack.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

maricius said:


> I never tried any coax cable other than the stock iBasso one. What are the differences in sound quality if there are any? Also, I didn't know the iBasso could work with 3.5mm TRS terminated jacks. I thought it was exclusive to the TS jack.


 

 There is no difference sound quality, its a digital signal. That is not possible.I only want to decrease the size from the cable, from 7cm now to around 1 cm, it's a huge difference for me (not so bulky anymore).
  
 It is no problem to use stereo jacks instead of mono jacks, as long you use a coax 75 ohms RCA jack on the other side.
  
 For example the old FiiO X3 has a mono jack adapter coax cable, now with FiiO X3 2nd, it is a stereo adapter coax cable, so you can use this new adapter on the old X3 as well as the other way around for sure (if it works for iBasso too like in my case).


----------



## Sound Eq

can someone please who uses android lolipop and ifi dsd micro tell me why the light indicator on ifi is always yellow, and what does yellow mean
  
 i am using neutron player and hibymusic


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> can someone please who uses android lolipop and ifi dsd micro tell me why the light indicator on ifi is always yellow, and what does yellow mean
> 
> i am using neutron player and hibymusic


 
  
 Yellow - 176/192kHz DXD352/384k
  
 It is in the manual, do read it sometime


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> Yellow - 176/192kHz DXD352/384k
> 
> It is in the manual, do read it sometime


 
 but how come its always yellow when i use neutron player even the files i play are just 44.1 very confusing


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> but how come its always yellow when i use neutron player even the files i play are just 44.1 very confusing


 
  
 It means your particular Android has upsampled the output to 24/192. While Neutron uses its own audio engine, the output still goes through Android nonetheless and therefore it will be 24/192 at the end.
  
 I will make a guess that you are referring to an Sony smartphone, are you? Last time around, Sony actually lets you decide whether to upsample or not (the setting is in its Walkman app), but they have changed that since Lollipop and now it automatically upsample to 24/192 by default. The only way around it is to use UAPP or Onkyo HD Player (not sure if Hiby does it or not as I haven't used it for quite sometime) that use their own USB driver which bypass the Android system. My Xperia Z2 does just that after updated to Lollipop so I know.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> It means your particular Android has upsampled the output to 24/192. While Neutron uses its own audio engine, the output still goes through Android nonetheless and therefore it will be 24/192 at the end.
> 
> I will make a guess that you are referring to an Sony smartphone, are you? Last time around, Sony actually lets you decide whether to upsample or not (the setting is in its Walkman app), but they have changed that since Lollipop and now it automatically upsample to 24/192 by default. The only way around it is to use UAPP or Onkyo HD Player (not sure if Hiby does it or not as I haven't used it for quite sometime) that use their own USB driver which bypass the Android system. My Xperia Z2 does just that after updated to Lollipop so I know.


 
 thanks yes its a sony xperia z ultra
  
 so is that upsampling supposed to be a good or bad thing?


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> thanks yes its a sony xperia z ultra
> 
> so is that upsampling supposed to be a good or bad thing?


 
  
 That depends on whether you are a purist or not, but I'll say it is better than what Android original sampling setting (24/48 IIRC) for Lollipop. For the least, I don't think there is any bad in it. If you really want true native rate playback, just use UAPP / HD player then.


----------



## PedroH

What settings do you use most with the iDSD?
  
 For pop, rock, jazz with Beyer T5p I use always:
 - Xbass
 - 3D
 - Minimum Phase Filter
  
 This combination sounds the most musical / exciting to me.


----------



## kurb1980

pedroh said:


> What settings do you use most with the iDSD?
> 
> For pop, rock, jazz with Beyer T5p I use always:
> - Xbass
> ...


 

 I upsample because this DAC sounds best and from a spec perspective performs better at the higher rates > 353kHz or DSD256.  I use HQP upsample PCM to 705kHz using bit perfect filter on the iDSD and poly sinc, NS5 for the filter and dither settings in HQP.  But I prefer the sound of DSD so I upsample to DSD256 in HQP filter set to standard on the iDSD and poly sinc *2, ASDM5 for the filter and modulator.  Upsampling at those high rates has its advantages bypassing the iDSD's filters and interpolation etc


----------



## kurb1980

Been experimenting with RAM disks to drag drop my audio files and drag drop from there to HQP playlist results are amazing. Much improved noise floor my externals are adding to much noise via USB.


----------



## iFi audio

pedroh said:


> I'm very happy with the sound quality of my iFi IDSD.
> 
> However, one thing that happens and surprises me is that battery runs out while I'm listening to it connected to a powered computer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Eco mode, can charge battery from normal USB port at a rate of maybe 100mA, so around 48 Hours needed of Charge & Play to bring a flat battery back. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
  
 Normal mode, no charging current available, audio peaks may eat into the battery so it may eventually go flat. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
  
 Turbo Mode, battery is always drawn on, it is depleted at a rate of around 350mA without signal, more with. So the battery will be depleted in around 12-15 Hours of playback or less if playing loud.  Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.

 Recommended workaround, purchase a Hub which is BC1.2 Battery charging compatible, it will allow charging even in turbo mode.


----------



## DougD

pedroh said:


> I'm very happy with the sound quality of my iFi IDSD.
> 
> However, one thing that happens and surprises me is that battery runs out while I'm listening to it connected to a powered computer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had my iFi Micro iDSD for 3 months, turned on almost continuously and connected to a computer almost continuously for that period, and I have never had it run out of juice. In fact, I've never seen the red light indicating that power is low. OTOH, I have never had to use Turbo mode either. (Senn HD-650 and HiFiMan HE-400i are plenty loud for me in Normal mode.) 
  
 Presumably you know that whether it uses USB-power or the battery depends on whether you plug in the USB and then turn the iDSD on, or vice versa. This is pretty easy to remember; if it wakes up and doesn't detect any juice, then it uses its battery ... as it must ... but if finds there is juice then it will preferentially conserve its battery and use the USB-power.
  
 Does your MacBookPro provide USB power, even when the MacBookPro itself is turned off ? I don't turn my PC off until I am going to be out of town for a few days, so my USB connection to the iDSD is always powered.


----------



## digitallc

I use the iUSBPower to both lower the noise floor - it really does improve the sound - and also to continually charge the micro iDSD, since the iUSB is always plugged into an electrical socket.


----------



## lucidreamer

digitallc said:


> I use the iUSBPower to both lower the noise floor - it really does improve the sound - and also to continually charge the micro iDSD, since the iUSB is always plugged into an electrical socket.


 
  
 I have been considering iUSB to power my iDSD Micro too, but have not been fully convinced yet whether iUSB may offer tangible sound improvement over the built-in battery inside the iDSD. I can probably tell a small improvement between powering from USB (fanless ASUS 205TA with 32gigs EEM) and the internal battery, the second mode gives a slightly more open and cleaner soundstage I think. Therefore, I primarily listen to it using the battery mode and leave the iDSD turned on all the time. When the computer is put to sleep, the green light flashes for a while then turns blue to charge the unit, then flashes green again when fully charged. That way it is always charged as long as the computer is not shut down or hibernated. In my opinion the built-in battery in iDSD is quite good and noise-free, at least I do not hear anything between the tracks except pure black silence. It lasts quite long since iDSD only uses the DAC and no phones are run from its amp.
  
 But the main question still open for me is *whether the iUSB-powered iDSD mode sound significantly better compared to the internal battery mode to justify the $200 price tag on the iUSB power supply?*
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## gr8soundz

lucidreamer said:


> But the main question still open for me is *whether the iUSB-powered iDSD mode sound significantly better compared to the internal battery mode to justify the $200 price tag on the iUSB power supply?*


 
  
 I keep asking myself this same question.
  
 Would love to get the iUSB and even a Gemini cable but each are overpriced around $200 apiece ($400-450 combined). The iDSD Micro was only $500 by itself!


----------



## jexby

the Uptone Audio USB Regen product is about $175, and may remove the need for split cables from your environment.
 I've had mine for about a week connected to Gungnir and the improvement in clarity and presentation was immediately noticeable.
  
 perhaps one evening will move the Regen to iFi iDSD micro and try some "back n forth" listening with Regen in/out of the USB chain.
 (would use a single Wireworld Starlight 7 USB cable into Regen, then iFi blue cable into iDSD.  hm.)
  
 results might be less noticeable as iPurifier is already built into the iDSD micro.....


----------



## blankdisc

talking about ultimate headphone mobile setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 ok...ok...i know this is not mobile by any mean. Also people who is able to afford HE-1000 probably have a much fancier desktop setup, but OMG this sounds awesome. Forget about anything you know. This is on a whole other level.


----------



## digitallc

lucidreamer said:


> I have been considering iUSB to power my iDSD Micro too, but have not been fully convinced yet whether iUSB may offer tangible sound improvement over the built-in battery inside the iDSD. I can probably tell a small improvement between powering from USB (fanless ASUS 205TA with 32gigs EEM) and the internal battery, the second mode gives a slightly more open and cleaner soundstage I think. Therefore, I primarily listen to it using the battery mode and leave the iDSD turned on all the time. When the computer is put to sleep, the green light flashes for a while then turns blue to charge the unit, then flashes green again when fully charged. That way it is always charged as long as the computer is not shut down or hibernated. In my opinion the built-in battery in iDSD is quite good and noise-free, at least I do not hear anything between the tracks except pure black silence. It lasts quite long since iDSD only uses the DAC and no phones are run from its amp.
> 
> But the main question still open for me is *whether the iUSB-powered iDSD mode sound significantly better compared to the internal battery mode to justify the $200 price tag on the iUSB power supply?*
> 
> Any thoughts?


 

 I would assume that the sound would be very similar. The money is not an issue for me, and since my iDSD is not permanently connected to my MacBook Pro, I don't have to worry any longer about whether the iDSD is charged or not.


----------



## maricius

lucidreamer said:


> I have been considering iUSB to power my iDSD Micro too, but have not been fully convinced yet whether iUSB may offer tangible sound improvement over the built-in battery inside the iDSD. I can probably tell a small improvement between powering from USB (fanless ASUS 205TA with 32gigs EEM) and the internal battery, the second mode gives a slightly more open and cleaner soundstage I think. Therefore, I primarily listen to it using the battery mode and leave the iDSD turned on all the time. When the computer is put to sleep, the green light flashes for a while then turns blue to charge the unit, then flashes green again when fully charged. That way it is always charged as long as the computer is not shut down or hibernated. In my opinion the built-in battery in iDSD is quite good and noise-free, at least I do not hear anything between the tracks except pure black silence. It lasts quite long since iDSD only uses the DAC and no phones are run from its amp.
> 
> But the main question still open for me is *whether the iUSB-powered iDSD mode sound significantly better compared to the internal battery mode to justify the $200 price tag on the iUSB power supply?*
> 
> Any thoughts?



 


This has been heavily discussed. Use the search function.


----------



## gr8soundz

maricius said:


> This has been heavily discussed. Use the search function.


 
  
 Apologies for feeding into old topics. But that's how good the Micro is. Its got me rethinking my whole setup again to try and get the most out of it.
  
 Problem is, I'm not sure how much better it will get. As another head-fi member said regarding this seemingly endless quest (can't find the exact post): What are we searching for and how will we know when we find it?
  
 Very expensive to go all out with a usb cleaner/regen/reclock (they're all $100+ minimum), even higher-grade usb cables, perhaps a Sonore usb card, balanced preamp, balanced tube amp, linear power for EVERYTHING, and balanced headphone cables.
  
 Just decided to use the Micro as-is which already sounds incredible for its cost (just got a huge audio boost too courtesy of free Bug Head player). Other funds will go toward the Liquid Carbon and an adapter for balancing my Z7s. That combo should give best bang for buck and probably save me a lot of headaches.
  
 So I say forget about the usb this or that and spend those $100s on better amps and headphones. The sound should follow accordingly and without the uncertainty of whether or not a certain usb device/cable/psu sounds better.


----------



## maricius

I really want a Carbon for my iDSD. 


gr8soundz said:


> Very expensive to go all out with a usb cleaner/regen/reclock (they're all $100+ minimum), even higher-grade usb cables, perhaps a Sonore usb card, balanced preamp, balanced tube amp, linear power for EVERYTHING, and balanced headphone cables.


 
  
 The Schiit Wyrd looks like a good investment and could prove to be useful even for future DACs.


----------



## gr8soundz

maricius said:


> The Schiit Wyrd looks like a good investment and could prove to be useful even for future DACs.


 
  
 Yeah, the Wyrd was close to top of my list but is still $100. Add another $80-$100 and I could get an iUSB or Gemini cable or even the new Uptoneaudio Regen for further futureproofing (reviews suggest those work a bit better than the Wyrd). And what happens if we find out something like the audio is 1000x cleaner over usb 3.1 (don't know if it is) or something else that cancels out further improvements from these expensive add-ons (something that wouldn't fully happen with amps and headphones)?
  
 Next dilemma wold be: is it better to get the Wryd alone or combine it with a better usb cable like the iFi Mercury? Either way its $100-$200+ that could put me 10% closer to an Ether or similar big upgrade. There's just too many variables for slight improvements to justify the cost (although I understand fully if adding them to setups with dacs/amps/etc. each in the 4-digit range).


----------



## ebe2000

gr8soundz said:


> Apologies for feeding into old topics. But that's how good the Micro is. Its got me rethinking my whole setup again to try and get the most out of it.
> 
> Problem is, I'm not sure how much better it will get. As another head-fi member said regarding this seemingly endless quest (can't find the exact post): What are we searching for and how will we know when we find it?
> 
> ...


 

 You got a point here. I have a top high-end home audio setup which is my reference. I can definitely say that no mobile setup will ever reach the level of my home system and therefore anything sounding good to your ears will be sufficient. I guess you have to find the balance of how much you can and how much you are willing to spend. If you really want to listen to the highest level, you will have to invest in a home audio setup or go to concerts.
 That´s my 2 cents.


----------



## lucidreamer

maricius said:


> lucidreamer said:
> 
> 
> > I have been considering iUSB to power my iDSD Micro too, but have not been fully convinced yet whether iUSB may offer tangible sound improvement over the built-in battery inside the iDSD. I can probably tell a small improvement between powering from USB (fanless ASUS 205TA with 32gigs EEM) and the internal battery, the second mode gives a slightly more open and cleaner soundstage I think. Therefore, I primarily listen to it using the battery mode and leave the iDSD turned on all the time. When the computer is put to sleep, the green light flashes for a while then turns blue to charge the unit, then flashes green again when fully charged. That way it is always charged as long as the computer is not shut down or hibernated. In my opinion the built-in battery in iDSD is quite good and noise-free, at least I do not hear anything between the tracks except pure black silence. It lasts quite long since iDSD only uses the DAC and no phones are run from its amp.
> ...


 
  
 I did research that subject already quite a bit and is still not fully convinced that the sound quality to run from iUSB Power supply box will be any better than from running from the internal low-noise battery when using iDSD as a DAC only.


----------



## gr8soundz

I use my Micro less than 2 hours per day so, starting last night, I ran it only in battery mode. Should give me the best possible sound without any add-ons.
  
 Also have a Mikrotik usb power injector cable that I may switch to so the Micro can charge (via usb ac adaptor) when the pc is off to avoid a low battery (don't leave my pc on when not using it).


----------



## gr8soundz

ebe2000 said:


> no mobile setup will ever reach the level of my home system and therefore anything sounding good to your ears will be sufficient. I guess you have to find the balance of how much you can and how much you are willing to spend. If you really want to listen to the highest level, you will have to invest in a home audio setup or go to concerts.


 
 +1


----------



## lucidreamer

maricius said:


> lucidreamer said:
> 
> 
> > I have been considering iUSB to power my iDSD Micro too, but have not been fully convinced yet whether iUSB may offer tangible sound improvement over the built-in battery inside the iDSD. I can probably tell a small improvement between powering from USB (fanless ASUS 205TA with 32gigs EEM) and the internal battery, the second mode gives a slightly more open and cleaner soundstage I think. Therefore, I primarily listen to it using the battery mode and leave the iDSD turned on all the time. When the computer is put to sleep, the green light flashes for a while then turns blue to charge the unit, then flashes green again when fully charged. That way it is always charged as long as the computer is not shut down or hibernated. In my opinion the built-in battery in iDSD is quite good and noise-free, at least I do not hear anything between the tracks except pure black silence. It lasts quite long since iDSD only uses the DAC and no phones are run from its amp.
> ...


 
  
 I did research that subject already quite a bit and is still not fully convinced that the sound quality to run from iUSB Power supply box will be any better than running from the internal low-noise battery with iDSD as DAC. I could hardly find too many experiences when people compared iUSB and battery to find significant changes, most of the experiences did not state which mode they were using or compared running iDSD from the computer USB port and iUSB. I also read reviews in other languages on different forums and some people did indicate the definite improvement but it was very subtle and only happening after using the device for some time, etc.
 I think it varies greatly from computer to computer too. My ASUS 205TA laptop has no harddrive or fans, it does not really contaminate the signal path in USB that much when running through the same included USB 3 cable. I can probably live with that for now and invest in better phones instead.
 Do not get me wrong here, iUSB is a great device that exceeds the competing products in specs and price but probably SOME may find it a good investment rather than ALL. Those who may be using iDSD 24/7 will definitely benefit from iUSB supply for a better sound because the internal battery is only charged when iDSD is not in use.


----------



## gr8soundz

lucidreamer said:


> I did research that subject already quite a bit and is still not fully convinced that the sound quality to run from iUSB Power supply box will be any better than running from the internal low-noise battery with iDSD as DAC. I could hardly find too many experiences when people compared iUSB and battery to find significant changes, most of the experiences did not state which mode they were using or compared running iDSD from the computer USB port and iUSB. I also read reviews in other languages on different forums and some people did indicate the definite improvement but it was very subtle and only happening after using the device for some time, etc.
> I think it varies greatly from computer to computer too. My ASUS 205TA laptop has no harddrive or fans, it does not really contaminate the signal path in USB that much when running through the same included USB 3 cable. I can probably live with that for now and invest in better phones instead.
> Do not get me wrong here, iUSB is a great device that exceeds the competing products in specs and price but probably SOME may find it a good investment rather than ALL. Those who may be using iDSD 24/7 will definitely benefit from iUSB supply for a better sound because the internal battery is only charged when iDSD is not in use.


 
  
 I have the same asus laptop along with several other fanless pcs. The latest was built with an MSI motherboard that has isolated 5V power to usb for cleaner audio when using dacs. Also tweaked bios and windows to further reduce jitter and noise. Definitely cleaner than average pc but you can only do so much to quiet noise/emi/rf from a pc.
  
 Doubt the iusb would make much improvement to my setup but I did hear slight differences between several usb cables indicating there is more headroom. May redo the cable swaps using battery only to double check (haven't tried the Gemini/Mercury cables yet; too expensive).
  
 At some point though, returns are diminished and probably better to switch to different dac/amp/headphone.


----------



## lucidreamer

gr8soundz said:


> I have the same asus laptop along with several other fanless pcs. The latest was built with an MSI motherboard that has isolated 5V power to usb for cleaner audio when using dacs. Also tweaked bios and windows to further reduce jitter and noise. Definitely cleaner than average pc but you can only do so much to quiet noise/emi/rf from a pc.
> 
> Doubt the iusb would make much improvement to my setup but I did hear slight differences between several usb cables indicating there is more headroom. May redo the cable swaps using battery only to double check (haven't tried the Gemini/Mercury cables yet; too expensive).
> 
> At some point though, returns are diminished and probably better to switch to different dac/amp/headphone.


 
  
 Totally agreed. Would you share your experiences on how to tweak Windows to reduce noise and jitter? The bios on 205TA is pretty basic.
  
 I tried using a regular modded USB cable (el cheapo Gemini version) with separate Type A male USB plugs for data and power connected to iDSD and did not notice any differences. It should theoretically reduce the induction and noise caused by the power cable being close to the data wire, however, it just sounded absolutely the same as the included blue USB cable really. iDSD does not work only with the data cable plugged into the computer USB port even in battery mode, it needs the 5v power at the same time no matter from which source. I tested the data cable plugged into my ASUS laptop and the power one plugged into another laptop and it worked the same way. I think just building a really good ultra-noise transformer based 5V supply and using the modded split cable will be pretty much the same as iUSB for 1/10 of its price. That is just my theory of course.


----------



## gr8soundz

lucidreamer said:


> Totally agreed. Would you share your experiences on how to tweak Windows to reduce noise and jitter? The bios on 205TA is pretty basic.
> 
> I tried using a regular modded USB cable (el cheapo Gemini version) with separate Type A male USB plugs for data and power connected to iDSD and did not notice any differences. It should theoretically reduce the induction and noise caused by the power cable being close to the data wire, however, it just sounded absolutely the same as the included blue USB cable really. iDSD does not work only with the data cable plugged into the computer USB port even in battery mode, it needs the 5v power at the same time no matter from which source. I tested the data cable plugged into my ASUS laptop and the power one plugged into another laptop and it worked the same way. I think just building a really good ultra-noise transformer based 5V supply and using the modded split cable will be pretty much the same as iUSB for 1/10 of its price. That is just my theory of course.


 
  
 Don't wanna take this thread any further off topic if possible.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



But, quickly, each pc bios is different and I have yet to use the Asus with my Micro (not enough cpu to transcode pcm to dsd). I tweaked another pc's bios using some highlights from this (direct pdf link; pg 9):
 http://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/audiophile_optimizer_setup_guide.pdf
  
 The optimizer is $150 (I think) and it supposedly does the settings in windows (not bios) for you. But only works on Windows Server 2012 r2 which is $180 plus yearly fees. Idea is to minimize as much as possible for better sound. I'm not about to spend $330+ on software so I applied what bios and windows tweaks I could within Windows 8.
  
 Sound did improve after tweaks. Doubt its as good as the Server 2012 os but, again, diminishing returns. I actually got a bigger improvement using a fairly new, free player called Bug Head:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/705387/bug-head-emperor-player-audiophile-player-from-japan
  
 Its a bit difficult to use at first (the English is roughly translated from Japanese) and requires a powerful cpu with lots of ram for upsampling but, even without upsampling, Bug Head's sound puts Foobar to shame.


  
 As far as the split usb cable, unfortunately (as I also found), there is currently no such thing as data only over usb. The cable needs some power to ground properly and to recognize most devices on the other end. Splitting the data/power (ala the gemini) should help but it still depends on how clean that power is and its still debated how much the Micro can benefit from this.
  
 The Micro on battery power is cleaner but any fluctuations travelling from the pc to the dac over usb can still diminish the sound.
  
 I also came to a similar conclusion about using a good 5v supply. IFi makes one but haven't seen it anywhere for sale yet (may be difficult to connect it though depending on your usb cable):
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/


----------



## lucidreamer

gr8soundz said:


> Don't wanna take this thread any further off topic if possible.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks a lot, *gr8soundz*!!!  That guide looks like a serious software tool targeted to convert a PC into a dedicated audiophile music system.
  
 About the power supply, I just found it on MusicDirect for $49 (but not in stock, 4-6 weeks to ship): http://www.musicdirect.com/p-322395-ifi-ipower-power-supply.aspx. That looks like the same SMPS power adapter that comes with iUSB.
  
 Also, there is a Jameco 5V linear regulated adapter for 10 bucks but no noise data posted in the specs: http://www.jameco.com/1/1/3278-ddu050100m2270-ac-dc-regulated-linear-wall-adapter.html


----------



## Incognito73

Well ... I have iDSD Micro and iUSB power unit on order at the moment, but NOT because of the iDSD pairing (exclusively).
  
iDSD micro does have excellent USB implementation indeed (iPurifier is already in place) and battery power is at hand. Idea was that I use iUSB with my other external DACs as patch work for troublesome USB power delivery form the computers itself. Somewhat ... long-term solution re-applicable for any other DAC in the need for good 5V power delivery. Ground lift feature is very useful too and not commonly available with other PSUs. I had never ending problems with ground loops, dirty grounds etc from various computer sources. I believe that one looking for iUSB should really re-consider applications outside of iFi domain. In turn, that's ultimate advantage of iUSB (and it's most certainly one of the better specced device of this type).
  
Some good external DACs are using 5V from the USB just for the initial hand-shake (and driver initialisation) and then it's cut off and failed over to main PSU unit and in that case iUSB is probably not much useful (although ground lift is still good to have).
  
@gr8soundz ... yes it would be useful to know when one can find those 5V/9V/12V PSU units. For 5V, you may use simple USB injector cable for USB-A jack conversion. Something like this:
  
 http://routerboard.com/5VUSB


----------



## gr8soundz

incognito73 said:


> @gr8soundz ... yes it would be useful to know when one can find those 5V/9V/12V PSU units. For 5V, you may use simple USB injector cable for USB-A jack conversion. Something like this:
> 
> http://routerboard.com/5VUSB


 
  
 I already have it. Got it a few weeks ago after the iPower was announced. Added some $5 ferritte cores and an ac barrel tip to usb wire;  created a sort of diy gemini cable. 
  
 Sound was a bit more harsh using this over the Micro's stock blue usb cable (my Monster usb extender cable was equally harsh) so not currently using it.
  
 My original plan was to also try it with the iPower. But the power injector could also work as a way to charge the Micro without having to leave pc on nor swap usb cables (should save some wear n tear on the micro).


----------



## rickyleelee

lucidreamer said:


> IZE]




 I am in the Ifi club. One of them told me about the iusb3. Wonder if that will be how much better then iUsb. Don't know. Anyone know anything?


----------



## gr8soundz

rickyleelee said:


> I am in the Ifi club. One of them told me about the *iusb3*. Wonder if that will be how much better then iUsb. Don't know. Anyone know anything?


 
  
 iUSB3!!??
 Just when I think I'm out they pull me back in.......!


----------



## HedgeHog

Howdy all.
  
 I just got the iDSD micro and have some questions (sorry, I tried searching but the forum's search result is not the easiest for getting answers...to me, at least).  Anyhoo, my setup is PC->USB->Wyrd->iDSD micro->RCA->Focal Alpha active monitors.
  
 My questions are:
  
 - Are the pops and clicks typical?  It reminded me of playing records.
 - My active speakers have not volume/gain, the DAC/speakers combo makes a loud pop/thump when it wakes up.  Especially when I power the iDSD on.  Would line level attenuators work (like Rothwell's)?  If so, what attenuation level - 10db/15db/20db?
 - If the iDSD is connected via line out most of the time, do I need to disconnect it to use the headphone out?  I was hoping to just plug the headphones in and it will turn off the line out.  So far, that does not work on mine.  I'd have to remove the RCA cables.
  
 Thanks in advance.
  
 -Hedwig


----------



## knorris908

Absolutely NOT taking sides one way or the other on which is better and why, but rather offering how my usage has evolved:  I currently listen to my FLAC files almost exclusively via S/PDIF, (3.5" pin *S/PDIF OUT* from my DX90 to digital coaxial *S/PDIF IN* via custom Forza Audio Works cable) and I love it!  True, when listening to DXD 2x or DSD 512/256 files I have to use my PC via a USB 3 port, and I've no complaints about noise/contamination with USB either.  
 (Now NOTE:  I connect all my Audio and Video equipment to APC SUA2200XL UPSes.  1 for video and the other for audio.  So maybe the pure sine and  line conditioning from the APCs help?) 
 But I also only use the iDSD as a DAC in that situation and rely on my ASGARD 2 for the amplification, so it isn't apples-to-apples when listening to S/PDIF vs USB in my setup, so I don't try and draw a conclusion on which sounds better.  But I immensely enjoy both. 
  
*When rocking-out*, I love listening to my iDSD Micro/DX90 combo with *KOSS Porta-Pros *(Believe it or not!).  *When losing myself in classical or new age music *(Think Isao Tomita or Kitaro) nothing beats my *Sennheiser HD-650s*.  And the iDSD Micro provides just enough power to do it right.  A little more would be nice, but there is truly minimal difference between what I get from my ASGARD 2!  Maybe 10% more punch, definition, and clarity, but not enough to notice except when I was doing critical blind A/B comparisons with my wife as the subject.  I truly couldn't tell the difference more than 30% of the time with VERY specific tracks.  (Chesky Eval/calibration tracks, Roger Waters "Amused To Death", Holst's "Mars..." or assorted Moody Blues/ELO favorites.  Most everything else including Bach and Chopin collections were just too close to call.)  *For Club/Top 40/Pop/EDM/Techno*, the *JVC HA-SZ2000s *upgraded with ear pads from an HA-M55x are unbelievable.  (No, that does not mean you plug them up to an iPhone or Android phone straight out of the box with the stock ear pads, and say, "The BASS is nothing special."  These things are MONSTERS, but you HAVE to feed them POWER, Aggressive BASS-centric EQ, and sub boost.  If your amp can do that, (And the iDSD Micro does it in spades!) you have true jaw-rattling, dental fillings-loosening, watch the ripples in your drink glass sub bass, and it's clean!  No bloated, distorted, or bleeding into your mids to destroy detail and nuance, it's just THERE.  As much as you could ever want.  Just EQ for what you want and the iDSD brings it out.  Mids are a little veiled?  Increase the power and tweak the EQ a bit and they come alive!  Highs never require more.  I'm constantly throttling them back.  An for most listening, I only take the bass and sub freqs to about 70% of what they COULD go to.
  
 So that's it.  Just wanted to share how I listen to my iDSD and for what types of music.  There is literally no equipment that I own that it doesn't command the best performance I've ever heard from a portable solution, and even *some* desktop/rack solutions without going north of $2,000 USD.  In all fairness though, I openly admit that I only listen to VMODA Bass Freqs and Super-Fi3s as serious in-ear solutions, so I can't speak much on high-end IEM performance.  I leave those evaluations to other much more qualified than I am.
  
 Enjoy the music!
  
 Ken N.


----------



## ClieOS

hedgehog said:


> Howdy all.
> 
> I just got the iDSD micro and have some questions (sorry, I tried searching but the forum's search result is not the easiest for getting answers...to me, at least).  Anyhoo, my setup is PC->USB->Wyrd->iDSD micro->RCA->Focal Alpha active monitors.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your problem can be easily solved by simply using an AV switch box between iDSD and your speaker. Make sure it is selected to a blank input before powering up the iDSD, then switch it back to iDSD after it is powered up. It will also work for you when you only need to listen to headphone-out. No more removing RCA cable.


----------



## HedgeHog

clieos said:


> Your problem can be easily solved by simply using an AV switch box between iDSD and your speaker. Make sure it is selected to a blank input before powering up the iDSD, then switch it back to iDSD after it is powered up. It will also work for you when you only need to listen to headphone-out. No more removing RCA cable.


 
 Thx...but that means more little boxes and cables on the desk.   Anyway, I take that to mean the iDSD needs to re-detect connection upon power up.  What if both line out and headphones are connected?  Does it take precedence or is that not recommended?
  
  
 Back to the popping issue, I came back to the PC after a bit and I guess the iDSD went to standby or something (my speakers are still on and lit up).  While typing this, an email came and I'm sure the PC played a sound.  That woke up the DAC and proceeded to send max voltage to the speakers....POP!!!!  Scared the bejeebus out of me!
  
 -H


----------



## technobear

hedgehog said:


> - Are the pops and clicks typical?  It reminded me of playing records.




No they are not. Your pc is set up incorrectly.

Did you change the iFi driver settings? Use 'Safe' for the USB Streaming Mode and at least 2048 for the ASIO Buffer Size.

There will also likely be buffer settings in your player software. You don't say what you are using. Increase the buffer size.


----------



## JootecFromMars

hedgehog said:


> Howdy all.
> 
> I just got the iDSD micro and have some questions (sorry, I tried searching but the forum's search result is not the easiest for getting answers...to me, at least).  Anyhoo, my setup is PC->USB->Wyrd->iDSD micro->RCA->Focal Alpha active monitors.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like a USB driver issue on PC.
  
 Have you installed and are using the USB drivers from ifi? You need to. Leave on default settings. Also note on your PC, some USB ports will work better than others.


----------



## Sound Eq

i was wondering if anyone compared the ifi micro dsd to the ak240ss or ak240


----------



## jagu

I went to the local HIFI store and tried Audeze LCD2, EL-8 Open/Closed and OPPO PM-1. With me I had iDSD and my LG G3 with WiMP/Tidal flac music. I really loved the audeze LCD2s when I tried them with OPPO HA-1 but with iDSD they didn't deliver. the LCDs are really heavy too! I liked the open EL-8s but but not that big of a difference to my Philips Fidelio L2s for an exchange. The closed EL-8s where too bassy for my liking. Guess I like the openness of open HPs.
  
 The PM1s fit my head much better than the Audeze HPs and they excelled with the HA-1 compared to the iDSD. It had me thinking: maybe the iDSD amp is the weak part? What are your impressions? I really like iDSD due to its portability and they way the drive my JH13s (no hiss at last) and L2s. But for a desktop solution one could add an amp and just use the DAC part of the iDSD.
  
 I all for a one-in-all solution like the iDSD but I understand that compromises are necessary for a portable solution. As Farbror Barbro (Uncle Barbara) from the famous Swedish comedy show "Nile City 105,6" says:_ there are no shortcuts to the perfect sound". _


----------



## iFi audio

*Licking the Lollipop*
  

  
*We *have Android 5 (Lollipop) tested using the Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet, the results are as follows:

 1) Sony Walkman - there are no longer settings for external DACs, the DAC (tested using iDSD nano with latest beta code). All audio is up-sampled to quad speed (176.4/192kHz), so never Bit-Perfect. Android Volume control sets DAC Volume.

 2) Spotify - plays audio also as Quad Speed upsampled (this may be Sony specific). Android Volume control sets DAC Volume.
   

  3) USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP), took two restarts before it could grab the DAC, after that works normally, bitperfect the Android Volume control does not change levels.
   

   So UAPP remains recommended for HD/HiRez and high quality playback. 

 For other audio player apps etc. the Android volume control should be set to maximum to avoid "loosing bits". 

   

We hope you found this useful.


----------



## HedgeHog

technobear said:


> No they are not. Your pc is set up incorrectly.
> 
> Did you change the iFi driver settings? Use 'Safe' for the USB Streaming Mode and at least 2048 for the ASIO Buffer Size.
> 
> There will also likely be buffer settings in your player software. You don't say what you are using. Increase the buffer size.


 
  
 Yup.  Safe.  Using *4096 *for the buffer.
  
 What else is there to set up?
  
_Windows Sound System_ using "*2- iFi (by AMR) HD + USB Audio*".
  
_JRMC19_ using "*iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio [ASIO]*", Device Settings: *500 ms buffering*, *DSD bitstream in DoP format*, DSP Studio: "_DSD in DoP format (requites DSD capable DAC)_".
  
_Bug Head Emperor_ using Infinity Blade SQ, ASIO-1 =* iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio*,
 Option 1:
*1. Correct clear sound [Memory optimize]*
*2. Memory envalid [add 7 sec before playing]*
*3. Set PCM792A mode [force LPF Free]*
*5. Auto phase adjust: OFF*
*6. z Tune [Memory optimize]*
*7. 1:4GB/2:4GB/3:4GB/4:4GB*
*8. Double-sided mounting memory*
*9. Shape clear sound [Sharp sound]*
*10. Rewrite wallpaper [More clear]*
  
 Option 2:
*1. Normal only [Normal]*
  


jootecfrommars said:


> Sounds like a USB driver issue on PC.
> 
> Have you installed and are using the USB drivers from ifi? You need to. Leave on default settings. Also note on your PC, some USB ports will work better than others.


 
  
 Yeah, I downloaded and installed the latest drivers.  Also checked to see if the firmware is the latest: 4.06.  I've tried both USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports.  Maybe I should bypass the Schiit Wyrd.
  
 Thx again.
  
 -H


----------



## ClieOS

ifi audio said:


> ..  3) USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP), took two restarts before it could grab the DAC, after that works normally, bitperfect the Android Volume control does not change levels.
> ....


 
  
 I have the same problem with Onkyo HD player as well. I believe the key is to wipe / reset all the setting first, then they seems to work fine later.


----------



## KritiKal

clieos said:


> I have the same problem with Onkyo HD player as well. I believe the key is to wipe / reset all the setting first, then they seems to work fine later.




I have never dared press that button in HF Player (But I have never had the need to). Are user EQ presets wiped or retained in the process?


----------



## technobear

hedgehog said:


> _JRMC19_ using "*iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio [ASIO]*", Device Settings: *500 ms buffering*, *DSD bitstream in DoP format*, DSP Studio: "_DSD in DoP format (requites DSD capable DAC)_".




Try increasing that buffer to 5 seconds (i.e. 5000, not 500).

Does it crackle on all audio formats or only high-res?


----------



## PedroH

ifi audio said:


> Eco mode, can charge battery from normal USB port at a rate of maybe 100mA, so around 48 Hours needed of Charge & Play to bring a flat battery back. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
> 
> Normal mode, no charging current available, audio peaks may eat into the battery so it may eventually go flat. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great post. Very informative. Thanks.


----------



## TheAttorney

hedgehog said:


> _JRMC19_ using "*iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio [ASIO]*", Device Settings: *500 ms buffering*, *DSD bitstream in DoP format*, DSP Studio: "_DSD in DoP format (requites DSD capable DAC)_".


 
 Why are you using the DOP option for DSD?
 My (limited) understanding in this area is that direct DSD is, erm, more direct than DOP - and therefore is preferable if the DAC can support it, which the iDSD can.
  
 I doubt if this has any bearing any issues you have, I'm just curious as to the pros and cons of using DOP. I thought its only purpose was to work with DACs that can't handle direct DSD.


----------



## ClieOS

kritikal said:


> I have never dared press that button in HF Player (But I have never had the need to). Are user EQ presets wiped or retained in the process?


 
  
 That, I don't know, as I never use its EQ before.


----------



## KritiKal

clieos said:


> That, I don't know, as I never use its EQ before.




No worries. I coerced my girlfriend in to using it on her iPhone. I have EQ'd for her headphones, but it's an easy task to re-do from a screen shot, so I'll try it on hers.


----------



## HedgeHog

technobear said:


> Try increasing that buffer to 5 seconds (i.e. 5000, not 500).
> 
> Does it crackle on all audio formats or only high-res?


 
  
 Thx but JRMC19 maxes out at 500ms. 
  
 I haven't tried all combinations but a majority of my files are CD ripped to ALAC via iTunes.  (I was playing with the Apple TV when I started so I never did FLAC).  I've downloaded some hi-res FLAC since as well as DSD (like samples from NativeDSD, Oppo, etc.).  Seems to all click and pop but inconsistently.
  
 One week before the iDSD's arrival I had a cheap Simple Audio Listen speaker that has its own DAC via USB.  None of my music clicked or popped.  Neither does it when it connects via USB to the RSA Predator portable amp.
  


theattorney said:


> Why are you using the DOP option for DSD?
> My (limited) understanding in this area is that direct DSD is, erm, more direct than DOP - and therefore is preferable if the DAC can support it, which the iDSD can.
> 
> I doubt if this has any bearing any issues you have, I'm just curious as to the pros and cons of using DOP. I thought its only purpose was to work with DACs that can't handle direct DSD.


 
  
 I am really not sure why.  I'm not very experienced with computer audio other than listening.  The online doc from iFi states this configuration.
  
http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_JRMC18+19.pdf
  
 "With the iDSD, one must ENABLE the “DSD over PCM” option with each audio playback software
 program.

 This ensures your computer audio program is configured to natively ENCODE DSD ready for the iDSD
 to natively DECODE DSD.
  
 Step 3: Tools > Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming
 ‐ Select DSD over PCM (DoP)
 ‐ Select DoP Format: DoP 1.0 (0xFA/0.05)

 Exit. You are now ready to enjoy DSD without conversion to another format on your iDSD by iFi.
  
  
 1.   Set DSD to 'Bitstreaming' > DoP (because under WASAPI ONLY DoP allows PCM)."
  
  
 -H


----------



## HedgeHog

clieos said:


> Your problem can be easily solved by simply using an AV switch box between iDSD and your speaker. Make sure it is selected to a blank input before powering up the iDSD, then switch it back to iDSD after it is powered up. It will also work for you when you only need to listen to headphone-out. No more removing RCA cable.


 
  
 After thinking about your suggestion, I ordered the Schiit SYS.  Their tech told me I can connect it in reverse so my line out can be toggled to the powered speakers or null.  And the volume pot will attenuate the signal to, hopefully, eliminate the popping!  Let's see if this theory works in practical application.
  
 Thanks again for this tip!
  
 -H


----------



## DougD

hedgehog said:


> After thinking about your suggestion, I ordered the Schiit SYS.  Their tech told me I can connect it in reverse so my line out can be toggled to the powered speakers or null.  And the volume pot will attenuate the signal to, hopefully, eliminate the popping!  Let's see if this theory works in practical application.
> 
> Thanks again for this tip!
> 
> -H


 
  
 I think you'll be happy .... that's exactly the set-up I have ... Micro iDSD (line out) to Schitt SYS to powered speakers (Emotive Air Motiv 5s). Cuz even Head-Fiers need a break from h/ps occasionally. The SYS works great as an on/off and volume control for the powered speakers. A brilliant and very reasonably priced solution from Schiit.


----------



## earfonia

FYI, recently reviewed ATH-R70x headphone. During the review I tried all gears I have, DACs and Amps, and guess what, ifi micro iDSD + iCAN sounds better than my other big gears to drive ATH-R70x. My other gears probably matching better with my other cans, but for ATH-R70x, so far ifi stack sounds best!!!


----------



## gixxerwimp

I've finally decided to pull the trigger on the micro iDSD, but Music Direct has been out of stock for coming on a month, and cannot provide any info on when they'll have it in stock. MD has been recommended to me in the vs. Hugo thread as a good seller.
  
 Can anyone recommend another reliable US online seller? I'm having it shipped to a friend in California who will bring it to me in Taiwan, and it has to get to her by the first week of June. I really don't want to have to their entire list of US sellers to find one with stock, and then have to determine if they can ship it on time reliably. http://ifi-audio.com/sales/#usa
  
 Have sent iFi customer service an email and am waiting to her back.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## lextek

I think Todd The Vinyl Junkie sells them. 
 http://www.ttvjaudio.com


----------



## tf1216

Try Avatar Acoustics.


----------



## knorris908

gixxerwimp said:


> I've finally decided to pull the trigger on the micro iDSD, but Music Direct has been out of stock for coming on a month, and cannot provide any info on when they'll have it in stock. MD has been recommended to me in the vs. Hugo thread as a good seller.
> 
> Can anyone recommend another reliable US online seller? I'm having it shipped to a friend in California who will bring it to me in Taiwan, and it has to get to her by the first week of June. I really don't want to have to their entire list of US sellers to find one with stock, and then have to determine if they can ship it on time reliably. http://ifi-audio.com/sales/#usa
> 
> ...


 

 Signature Sound out of New York sells and is where I got mine if you are on the North-East Coast of US and want a "local" place.  Rich (Owner) is a great guy that I've spoken with often and he has always been helpful.
  
 Rich Brkich
 Owner, Signature Sound
 Telephone: 315-622-4137
 Website: wp.sigsound.com


----------



## knorris908

earfonia said:


> FYI, recently reviewed ATH-R70x headphone. During the review I tried all gears I have, DACs and Amps, and guess what, ifi micro iDSD + iCAN sounds better than my other big gears to drive ATH-R70x. My other gears probably matching better with my other cans, but for ATH-R70x, so far ifi stack sounds best!!!


 

 Awesome!  So....  Question:  How different does your setup sound when you listen from JUST the iDSD Micro VS the iDSD Micro + the iCAN?  Any change in the sound colorations, and characteristics?  Or is it just "MORE POWER"?  Either is fine by me as I love my iDSD Micro by itself, but curious to know what changes with the stacking of the 2 in real world setups.


----------



## earfonia

knorris908 said:


> Awesome!  So....  Question:  How different does your setup sound when you listen from JUST the iDSD Micro VS the iDSD Micro + the iCAN?  Any change in the sound colorations, and characteristics?  Or is it just "MORE POWER"?  Either is fine by me as I love my iDSD Micro by itself, but curious to know what changes with the stacking of the 2 in real world setups.


 
  
 Do you mean comparing the headphone output?
  
 micro iDSD headphone output is a little too dry, lean sounding, and a bit edgy on the treble. micro iCAN is much more refined sounding. Not the power, but sound quality refinement. micro iCAN sounds smoother and much more pleasing to my ears. micro iCAN treble sounds more natural, transparent without any harshness or edgyness.


----------



## gixxerwimp

lextek said:


> I think Todd The Vinyl Junkie sells them.
> http://www.ttvjaudio.com


 
   





tf1216 said:


> Try Avatar Acoustics.


 
   


knorris908 said:


> Signature Sound out of New York sells and is where I got mine if you are on the North-East Coast of US and want a "local" place.  Rich (Owner) is a great guy that I've spoken with often and he has always been helpful.
> 
> Rich Brkich
> Owner, Signature Sound
> ...


 

  
 Thanks to all above.


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> Do you mean comparing the headphone output?
> 
> micro iDSD headphone output is a little too dry, lean sounding, and a bit edgy on the treble. micro iCAN is much more refined sounding. Not the power, but sound quality refinement. micro iCAN sounds smoother and much more pleasing to my ears. micro iCAN treble sounds more natural, transparent without any harshness or edgyness.


 

 Perfect one sentence summation in describing the sound quality of the iDSD micro's headphone section.  Often times with many headphones it's not about brute power, but the ability to convey music in all it's natural harmonic richness without change.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

earfonia said:


> Do you mean comparing the headphone output?
> 
> micro iDSD headphone output is a little too dry, lean sounding, and a bit edgy on the treble. micro iCAN is much more refined sounding. Not the power, but sound quality refinement. micro iCAN sounds smoother and much more pleasing to my ears. micro iCAN treble sounds more natural, transparent without any harshness or edgyness.


 

 Interessting. I own both too. I can't tell any difference between micro iDSD and micro iCAN if only the amp section from iDSD is used. It only change if I use the dac section + amp section from the iDSD with Bit-Perfect filter enabled. My cans are Sennheiser HD 800 and only with Bit-Perfect setting the treble extension sound more smooth and natural. In this case it doesn't matter if i I use iDSD alone or iDSD + iCAN together.


----------



## Androb

Just joined the party!


----------



## Edric Li

androb said:


> Just joined the party!


 
 Welcome!


----------



## roamling

earfonia said:


> Do you mean comparing the headphone output?
> 
> micro iDSD headphone output is a little too dry, lean sounding, and a bit edgy on the treble. micro iCAN is much more refined sounding. Not the power, but sound quality refinement. micro iCAN sounds smoother and much more pleasing to my ears. micro iCAN treble sounds more natural, transparent without any harshness or edgyness.




i owned the micro iCAN before the iDSD was released. i then sold the iCAN thinking the iDSD would be able to match it, but i agree with your assessment, too edgy and dry. the micro iDSD is a absolute marvel when it comes to the dac section but the headphone amp is an ad on, a good one but i dont use it.


----------



## kugino

roamling said:


> i owned the micro iCAN before the iDSD was released. i then sold the iCAN thinking the iDSD would be able to match it, but i agree with your assessment, too edgy and dry. the micro iDSD is a absolute marvel when it comes to the dac section but the headphone amp is an ad on, a good one but i dont use it.


agreed. for the price, the idsd is very versatile and has a good DAC. but the amp is its weak point.


----------



## earfonia

roamling said:


> i owned the micro iCAN before the iDSD was released. i then sold the iCAN thinking the iDSD would be able to match it, but i agree with your assessment, too edgy and dry. the micro iDSD is a absolute marvel when it comes to the dac section but the headphone amp is an ad on, a good one but i dont use it.




+1 Agree.


----------



## marcus1

Hi

Only just starting out for my headphone setup and would appreciate some advice. Currently I have the following portable setup: 
Line out from Ipod classic to Vorzüge VorzAMP PURE amp (original, not mk2 version) to Ultrasone Signature Pro closed headphones. 
Most of my music is stored as Flac files and I want to lose the Ipod and use my Samsung android tablet as the source using an OTG cable for line out.
Heard great things about both the idsd micro and the idsd nano and can't decide what way to go.
As I will be mainly using Flac and already have the Vorzamp Pure amp, is there any point in getting the more expensive idsd micro just to use it's dac over the dac in the idsd nano - are they pretty much the same dac in both? I've also read the micro incorprates the iPurifier; will this make a significant difference over the dac in the nano?

Also, if anyone has compared the Vorzüge VorzAMP PURE to the amp in the micro which did you prefer?

Thank-you.


----------



## knorris908

earfonia said:


> +1 Agree.


 

 Seconded.  I haven't found anything PORTABLE that sounds better and can drive my HD-650s so well, (Though the FIIO e17 & more-so the e12 sounds pretty good as well.) but when I use it in the loft with the entertainment center setup I use my ASGARD 2 for the amp to get that extra tier of sweetness and enjoyment.


----------



## Androb

edric li said:


> Welcome!


 
 Thank you thank you! Feels good to be an owner of this little piece


----------



## knorris908

androb said:


> Thank you thank you! Feels good to be an owner of this little piece


 

 Yes, welcome to the club!  
  
 Make SURE that you charge that puppy for the full 24hours before taking it out for a spin...  It's tough to wait, but worth it.
  
 Ken N.


----------



## Androb

knorris908 said:


> Yes, welcome to the club!
> 
> Make SURE that you charge that puppy for the full 24hours before taking it out for a spin...  It's tough to wait, but worth it.
> 
> Ken N.


 
 Thx  I bought it from a dealer as a demo unit at a hifi show, barely used for half the price. So I'm really satisfied!!


----------



## Music Path

earfonia said:


> Do you mean comparing the headphone output?
> 
> micro iDSD headphone output is a little too dry, lean sounding, and a bit edgy on the treble. micro iCAN is much more refined sounding. Not the power, but sound quality refinement. micro iCAN sounds smoother and much more pleasing to my ears. micro iCAN treble sounds more natural, transparent without any harshness or edgyness.


 
  


h1f1add1cted said:


> Interessting. I own both too. I can't tell any difference between micro iDSD and micro iCAN if only the amp section from iDSD is used. It only change if I use the dac section + amp section from the iDSD with Bit-Perfect filter enabled. My cans are Sennheiser HD 800 and only with Bit-Perfect setting the treble extension sound more smooth and natural. In this case it doesn't matter if i I use iDSD alone or iDSD + iCAN together.


 

 I´m little curious about these last statements. As far i heard, the iDSD had a slightly warm side to its sound, especially in bit perfect mode, which turned more treble cans like hd800 and dt 990 more pleasable. Is it a big diference to the ican? I mean how much warmer sounds the ican relative to the idsd if at all more warmer? I´m asking this beacause i like a slightly warmer and solid "touchable" sound, without compromising detail to much. Especially in the bass, which i´m more curious.

 I ordered the idsd, because of their features, power and bass boost. But as i saw the bass boost in the ican is slightly bigger. 7db idsd against 9db ican ( at 20hz). 
 So how does the bass compares in relation iDSD only, and iDSD + iCAN with xbass? I mean deept, extension and body.

 I have the hd650 which turned out to have a pleasing bass to me, with the bass boost of the fiio e12.
 But interested in geeting the HD600, which many say has lack of sub bass but a well defined one. So the xbass feature would be great in this case. I´m not bass head but i do like bass, 
 especially a more defined/tight one.

 Is it much worthy getting the ican when you have the idsd?


----------



## knorris908

music path said:


> I´m little curious about these last statements. As far i heard, the iDSD had a slightly warm side to its sound, especially in bit perfect mode, which turned more treble cans like hd800 and dt 990 more pleasable. Is it a big diference to the ican? I mean how much warmer sounds the ican relative to the idsd if at all more warmer? I´m asking this beacause i like a slightly warmer and solid "touchable" sound, without compromising detail to much. Especially in the bass, which i´m more curious.
> 
> 
> I ordered the idsd, because of their features, power and bass boost. But as i saw the bass boost in the ican is slightly bigger. 7db idsd against 9db ican ( at 20hz).
> ...




I will leave the technical explanations to those who know what to say. I will simply state that for me, the iDSD Micro brings out more of what bass a headphone is capable of when Bass Boost is enabled, but does not create bass where there is none. My HD650s have plenty of bass for my normal listening. My Porta-Pros put out a surprising amount as well. On the other hand, my AKG 545 has a percussive bass when Bass boost is enabled, but they never "thump" like the HD-650s can. To the other extreme, my JVC HA-SZ2000s are MADE to thump. (Literally, I'm not exaggerating.). And they transfer enough kinetic energy to make your temples itch. But NO amount of Bass boost will ever make my HD-650s throw out that kind of DEEP, bone rattling sub bass that the HA-SZ2000s can. All my other headphones fall somewhere in between those extremes, and remain relative to each other no matter if I use them all with my Schiit Audio ASGARD 2, iFi iDSD Micro, FIIO e17, or even my old home theater headphone jack.


----------



## Music Path

knorris908 said:


> I will leave the technical explanations to those who know what to say. I will simply state that for me, the iDSD Micro brings out more of what bass a headphone is capable of when Bass Boost is enabled, but does not create bass where there is none. My HD650s have plenty of bass for my normal listening. My Porta-Pros put out a surprising amount as well. On the other hand, my AKG 545 has a percussive bass when Bass boost is enabled, but they never "thump" like the HD-650s can. To the other extreme, my JVC HA-SZ2000s are MADE to thump. (Literally, I'm not exaggerating.). And they transfer enough kinetic energy to make your temples itch. But NO amount of Bass boost will ever make my HD-650s throw out that kind of DEEP, bone rattling sub bass that the HA-SZ2000s can. All my other headphones fall somewhere in between those extremes, and remain relative to each other no matter if I use them all with my Schiit Audio ASGARD 2, iFi iDSD Micro, FIIO e17, or even my old home theater headphone jack.


 
 I do know these JVC 2000 cans, which deliver supreme bass, similar to the sony´s xb 910 cans which i currently have, but they are closed ad have bigger driver (55mm) which gives more bass overall as open cans. I´m aiming more smother cans to not obscure to much the mids and highs.  
 They are important to electronic too. And i´m suprised how good the senns 650 go with electronic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





The tight bass is very cool to listen too, and the dark signature.  I just want risk a more neutral can maybie a bright can, but with these most of all i have to have good bass, because i´m slightly treble sensitive. Thats why i wanted a bass comparison, but seems the both idsd and ican have strong bass bost boosts, just curious how much more the ican can deliver bass in second level. And besides i want a slightly warm amp. Not too harsch one. Since some are compliaining that idsd is bit dry sounding, and the ican as a warm solution, how much would that upgrade be worthy?,, At the end are class A amps the best sounding options overal? which is the ican´s case.


----------



## gr8soundz

Been looking at some balanced dacs lately but think I may stick with the Micro.
  
 Although its single ended output, does anyone know if the dual mono PCM1793 chips provide a more "balanced" sound output when using the rca outs?


----------



## earfonia

gr8soundz said:


> Been looking at some balanced dacs lately but think I may stick with the Micro.
> 
> Although its single ended output, does anyone know if the dual mono PCM1793 chips provide a more "balanced" sound output when using the rca outs?


 
  
 To my knowledge, balanced DAC only has balanced connection at the analog input and output section. In the digital section, in principal balanced and unbalanced DACs are the same. Balanced is only at the analog section, to reduce noise and interference, and has nothing to do with dual mono architecture or multi-chips DACs.


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi please inform me when is the final firmware update available


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> ifi please inform me when is the final firmware update available


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We have been chasing skunkworks for an update.
  
 We have been doing more tests with different machines.
  
 Then tweaked the firmware some.
  
 So it has taken longer.
  
 No short cuts to getting as bug free firmware as possible.
  
 Should be with next 2 weeks though.
  
 Thank you for your patience.


----------



## earfonia

music path said:


> I just want risk a more neutral can maybie a bright can, but with these most of all i have to have good bass, because i´m slightly treble sensitive.


 
  
 From your description, I suggest you try Audio-Technica ATH-R70x. It sounds more natural than HD 650, and pairs wonderfully with micro iDSD + iCAN. Even without iCAN, R70x will be the only headphone I recommend for micro iDSD. Somehow it compensates the dryness headphone output of micro iDSD really well.


----------



## diamondears

music path said:


> I do know these JVC 2000 cans, which deliver supreme bass, similar to the sony´s xb 910 cans which i currently have, but they are closed ad have bigger driver (55mm) which gives more bass overall as open cans. I´m aiming more smother cans to not obscure to much the mids and highs.
> They are important to electronic too. And i´m suprised how good the senns 650 go with electronic.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 PSB M4U 1 ($300), then buy OCC cable (Oyaide HPC-35 is around $50). Most articulate bass that I've ever heard. Even beats the LCD-2.2 on articulacy of the bass. And PSB works at its peak unamped (I use iPhone 6/6+).


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> From your description, I suggest you try Audio-Technica ATH-R70x. It sounds more natural than HD 650, and pairs wonderfully with micro iDSD + iCAN. Even without iCAN, R70x will be the only headphone I recommend for micro iDSD. Somehow it compensates the dryness headphone output of micro iDSD really well.


 

 Thank you for this recommendation earfonia...  It has been very dificult finding a headphone that will sonically mate well directly with my iDSD micro headphone section.  After reading your many excellent reviews and having several of the same headphone impressions as yourself, I have realized that your ears prefer the same sound signature as mine.  This is really what it comes down to here on head-fi IMO, finding a poster/reviewer who shares a similar sonic palette as oneself.
  
 I have just placed an order through Amazon for the ATH-R70x and have a feeling it may sell out soon.  They don't even show up on B&H Photo and Sweetwater Sound shows a long back order for them. 
  
 BTW, great job on that DIY headphone cable you made for them in your review, I am thinking of making one for myself also.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/765004/audio-technica-ath-r70x-in-depth-review-impressions


----------



## earfonia

triodemode said:


> This is really what it comes down to here on head-fi IMO, finding a poster/reviewer who shares a similar sonic palette as oneself.


 
  
 +1. Agree on that! I also trying to gauge other reviewers preferences against mine, to estimate their description of sound quality.
  
 ATH-R70x is one headphone that I plan to buy despite already having other reference headphones. The tonality is just so natural, that IMHO, it is a must have.
  
 Hope you enjoy your ATH-R70x with the micro iDSD!


----------



## gixxerwimp

This is kind of a stupid question that may have already been answered somewhere, though I can't seem to find it.
  
 How do you say *iFi*? Reading it to myself in my head, I've been saying "iffy". But everything is iCrap these days, so I guess it should be "I-Fi" as in _hi-fi_.
  
 I didn't feel so bad about asking after I found this thread discussing how to pronounce "AKG".
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/6931/how-do-you-pronounce-akg
  
 I just ordered mine, so I thought I should be able to pronounce its full name correctly.


----------



## Androb

gixxerwimp said:


> This is kind of a stupid question that may have already been answered somewhere, though I can't seem to find it.
> 
> How do you say *iFi*? Reading it to myself in my head, I've been saying "iffy". But everything is iCrap these days, so I guess it should be "I-Fi" as in _hi-fi_.
> 
> ...


 
 I pronounce it like Hi-fi without the H


----------



## TheAttorney

I pronounce it "iffy", and will continue to do so irrespective of the correct way, as I think it just sounds more fun as iffy.


----------



## KritiKal

androb said:


> I pronounce it like Hi-fi without the H




As do I. It's logical that it would be pronounced that way.


----------



## knorris908

kritikal said:


> As do I. It's logical that it would be pronounced that way.




Same, though I think of it as "eye-fye"

Hey if "iffy" gives you a giggle, what's the harm? Just know that others may not get the joke without explanation.


----------



## leafs

Does anyone try pairing iFi iDSD micro used as a DAC with other dedicated amp?
  
 I'm thinking of getting it to pair with Burson Soloist to drive LCD2r2. Currently I'm using ODAC DAC. 
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## floydfan33

leafs said:


> Does anyone try pairing iFi iDSD micro used as a DAC with other dedicated amp?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting it to pair with Burson Soloist to drive LCD2r2. Currently I'm using ODAC DAC.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 I'm currently using the iDSD with a Gustard H10 and it's working very well.


----------



## EVOLVIST

leafs said:


> Does anyone try pairing iFi iDSD micro used as a DAC with other dedicated amp?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting it to pair with Burson Soloist to drive LCD2r2. Currently I'm using ODAC DAC.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I run my iDSD micro into my SPL Auditor Headphone amp, which is a pro audio design for mastering.
  
 In fact, I just recently was asked to bring my SPL Auditor out to a recording session, where we listened, first, to some mixes with HD800s just coming out of a Berringer mixing board. It sounded good! When we then hooked up the SPL Auditor out of the board, listening through the same cans, you could now here how narrow the stereo mix was, when they had spent a lot of time with stereo placement. We took it a step further and hooked up the iDSD micro to the whole rig, with the Auditor, and now you could hear every little digital glitch, or imperfect edit done in the digital domain. The tracks were really put under a microscope to where quite a few thing needed to be cleaned up, including regaining some dynamic range, which was lost only by mixing with through monitors.
  
 In short, my home rig told the truth...and by referencing some choice tracks, they were able to get what they had wanted...and more!


----------



## Trogdor

theattorney said:


> I pronounce it "iffy", and will continue to do so irrespective of the correct way, as I think it just sounds more fun as iffy.




That is a good idea! Kudos!


----------



## Francisk

evolvist said:


> I run my iDSD micro into my SPL Auditor Headphone amp, which is a pro audio design for mastering.
> 
> In fact, I just recently was asked to bring my SPL Auditor out to a recording session, where we listened, first, to some mixes with HD800s just coming out of a Berringer mixing board. It sounded good! When we then hooked up the SPL Auditor out of the board, listening through the same cans, you could now here how narrow the stereo mix was, when they had spent a lot of time with stereo placement. We took it a step further and hooked up the iDSD micro to the whole rig, with the Auditor, and now you could hear every little digital glitch, or imperfect edit done in the digital domain. The tracks were really put under a microscope to where quite a few thing needed to be cleaned up, including regaining some dynamic range, which was lost only by mixing with through monitors.
> 
> In short, my home rig told the truth...and by referencing some choice tracks, they were able to get what they had wanted...and more!


 
 Doing your recording with Behringer mixer.....ooops.....I wish you luck my friend


----------



## EVOLVIST

francisk said:


> Doing your recording with Behringer mixer.....ooops.....I wish you luck my friend




It's not my recording. Nevertheless, the console was free to the engineer being sponsored.


----------



## lucidreamer

Just received a slightly used iFi iUSB power supply and it actually does make a difference in SQ with Micro iDSD DAC. I was skeptical at first that it would bring any tangible improvement compared to the internal battery but it seems like it did. The sound is overall more spacious and the bass seems to be more pronounced. I went back and forth with my HE-560 and can hear the difference. Currently using the stock blue cables and may build some DIY silver USB cables later.
  
 Did anyone try to tape pin 1 and 4 of the USB cable going from the computer to iUSB power supply? I just did that and it seems to be improving the quality even little more. This way only the data (- and +) are transferred without 5V (-/+) from the computer in the same cable. It works just fine with my ASUS 205T laptop without having to create a dummy load on the 5V (-/+) using some resistors and led lights, since some systems may need to be tricked to have a load on the USB power lines to send the data. After taping pins 1 and 4 - it seems to sound slightly more open and with more open end, but I am not 100% about it, probably it is just some placebo effect in my mind or something. Just wondering if someone else noticed anything different after disabling those pins too?


----------



## iFi audio

lucidreamer said:


> Just received a slightly used iFi iUSB power supply and it actually does make a difference in SQ with Micro iDSD DAC. I was skeptical at first that it would bring any tangible improvement compared to the internal battery but it seems like it did. The sound is overall more spacious and the bass seems to be more pronounced. I went back and forth with my HE-560 and can hear the difference. Currently using the stock blue cables and may build some DIY silver USB cables later.
> 
> Did anyone try to tape pin 1 and 4 of the USB cable going from the computer to iUSB power supply? I just did that and it seems to be improving the quality even little more. This way only the data (- and +) are transferred without 5V (-/+) from the computer in the same cable. It works just fine with my ASUS 205T laptop without having to create a dummy load on the 5V (-/+) using some resistors and led lights, since some systems may need to be tricked to have a load on the USB power lines to send the data. After taping pins 1 and 4 - it seems to sound slightly more open and with more open end, but I am not 100% about it, probably it is just some placebo effect in my mind or something. Just wondering if someone else noticed anything different after disabling those pins too?





Q: "Did anyone try to tape pin 1 and 4 of the USB cable going from the computer to iUSB power supply?" 

A: 

We do not recommend this. The iUSB Power has the iSo-Earth feature which safely breaks the ground Between Computer and the attached device.

Additonally, the Power from the Computer is used strictly for the indication for "Computer attached" and "Iso-Earth enabled" and does not progress any further.

So in effect using the iUSB Power and enabling IsoEarth has the exact same effect as cutting power/ground in the USB cable, without violating the USB protocol requirements and without creating the potential to cause damage to either DAC or Computer USB Ports.


----------



## lucidreamer

Thanks for the explanation iFi Audio. I will remove the masking tape and run the USB cable as is then. It was for experimentation purposes anyways and as mentioned earlier it might be sounding the same with or without disabling Pin 1 and 4. The "difference" could be merely psychological. The idea was to cut off the computer USB power supply in the connector level because the computer power noise could negatively effect the data transmission since both the power and the data wires are located close to each other in the same cable, but this is in theory only, both cables are shielded and the cable length is pretty short actually. The USB data and power are already located close to each other prior to the USB plug on the computer motherboard.
  
 It really sounds gorgeous with the iFi usb power added to the system, definitely worth of upgrading to it.


----------



## WriterHead

ifi audio said:


> Eco mode, can charge battery from normal USB port at a rate of maybe 100mA, so around 48 Hours needed of Charge & Play to bring a flat battery back. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
> 
> Normal mode, no charging current available, audio peaks may eat into the battery so it may eventually go flat. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
> 
> ...


 
 I use it with my Audeze LCD2, which would be better to use: normal mode at about 80% of volume pot or turbo mode at about 30%. Sound quality should be the same at equal volume but less power drain?


----------



## KritiKal

writerhead said:


> I use it with my Audeze LCD2, which would be better to use: normal mode at about 80% of volume pot or turbo mode at about 30%. Sound quality should be the same at equal volume but less power drain?




It suggested to put the gain at a position that gives you optimal volume with the pot between 9-12 o'clock to avoid channel imbalance.


----------



## diamondears

kritikal said:


> It suggested to put the gain at a position that gives you optimal volume with the pot between 9-12 o'clock to avoid channel imbalance.



I personally find the Normal mode better on bass quality and bass dynamics using Bit-Perfect filter. There's more bass "surround", for lack of better term. Richer bass? More full bodied bass?


----------



## diamondears

I think there was even a post from iFi audio suggesting Normal mode for Audezes.


----------



## TheAttorney

With my relatively-easy-to-drive Senn HD600s, I initially used only the Eco setting, as that gave the right volume for pot setting for me, resulting in many hours of listening between charges.
  
 More recently, on directly comparing Eco with Normal (with volume levelling of course), I found the Normal setting gave a significanly more detailed and dynamic sound to the HD600s, so well worth it (and it still seems to last hours and hours between charges).
  
 Turbo has far too much gain for my HD600s, so I've never bothered with it.


----------



## Tobias89

Is there a line out function for use with an external amplifier?


----------



## lucidreamer

tobias89 said:


> Is there a line out function for use with an external amplifier?


 
 Yes, there is a switch at the bottom of iDSD to turn the unit into a pre-amp when connecting to the power amplifier. That way the volume control can be used to manage the volume output from iDSD going to the power amplifier because many of those power amps especially quality ones are running in Class A mode and have no volume attenuator controls.
  
 When using iDSD in DAC-only mode with amplifiers or receivers that have volume controls - it would be better to turn the bottom switch to a direct drive mode for better output quality.
  
 I think it is pretty clear explained in the instructions and online already.


----------



## Tobias89

lucidreamer said:


> Yes, there is a switch at the bottom of iDSD to turn the unit into a pre-amp when connecting to the power amplifier. That way the volume control can be used to manage the volume output from iDSD going to the power amplifier because many of those power amps especially quality ones are running in Class A mode and have no volume attenuator controls.
> 
> When using iDSD in DAC-only mode with amplifiers or receivers that have volume controls - it would be better to turn the bottom switch to a direct drive mode for better output quality.
> 
> I think it is pretty clear explained in the instructions and online already.


 
 Sorry, I mean to use it as DAC only connected to a portable amplifier like for example fiio e12diy.


----------



## lucidreamer

tobias89 said:


> Sorry, I mean to use it as DAC only connected to a portable amplifier like for example fiio e12diy.


 
 Of course it has a true line out to be used as a DAC only, this is what I also do and connect my iDSD Micro to a PPA headphone amplifier.


----------



## Tobias89

lucidreamer said:


> Of course it has a true line out to be used as a DAC only, this is what I also do and connect my iDSD Micro to a PPA headphone amplifier.


 
 Oh ok. I was told by the salesperson that there wasn't any. Thanks!


----------



## Sound Eq

i was wondering did anyone manage to get viper4android work with ifi micro dsd on android
  
 i drove me crazy on my sony xperia z ultra rooted
  
 when i disconnect the phone from the ifi dsd the viper4android works, but once connected it stop working and driver shows its not enabled
 i tried to force enable viper4android and nothing worked
  
 any hints


----------



## happybuyer

My iFi iDSD Micro no longer works.
  
 I plug it into USB and the little blue light on the top near the back goes on for about one second, then goes off.
  
 There is no sign anything is happening.
  
 If I try to play music, JRiver says it doesn’t see the device.
  
 I had the Micro in a drawer for a couple of weeks. During that time it wasn't plugged in.
  
 Did the battery drain and now it won't charge?
  
 Or is this some other problem?
  
 It worked great earlier.


----------



## Triodemode

happybuyer said:


> My iFi iDSD Micro no longer works.
> 
> I plug it into USB and the little blue light on the top near the back goes on for about one second, then goes off.
> 
> ...


 

 Did you remember to turn it off before storage?  Sounds to me like the unit may have been on all this time and the battery is completely drained.  Have you tried to leave the micro plugged in to a powered USB port for 24 hours with it turned off?  This may allow the micro to recharge it's battery. Also, make sure the mode switch is set to ECO so it will only draw power from the USB port. 
  
 I have also ran into this situation.  With a dead battery the unit can only be used via USB in ECO mode until the battery is charged.


----------



## happybuyer

triodemode said:


> Did you remember to turn it off before storage?  Sounds to me like the unit may have been on all this time and the battery is completely drained.  Have you tried to leave the micro plugged in to a powered USB port for 24 hours with it turned off?  This may allow the micro to recharge it's battery. Also, make sure the mode switch is set to ECO so it will only draw power from the USB port.
> 
> I have also ran into this situation.  With a dead battery the unit can only be used via USB in ECO mode until the battery is charged.


 
 It was not turned off before storage. Didn't think of that (forgot it even has a battery).
  
 I had accidentally moved the switch to Eco mode, which is when the light came back on.
  
 So now it all makes sense.

 Thank you!
  
 I wish there was a way to bypass battery entirely, because this is always only going to be played while connected to USB.


----------



## Triodemode

happybuyer said:


> It was not turned off before storage. Didn't think of that (forgot it even has a battery).
> 
> I had accidentally moved the switch to Eco mode, which is when the light came back on.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, you could always place a post it or other label on top, reminding you to turn it off before removing the micro from USB.


----------



## digitallc

happybuyer said:


> My iFi iDSD Micro no longer works.
> 
> I plug it into USB and the little blue light on the top near the back goes on for about one second, then goes off.
> 
> ...


 

 Similar story happened to me last month - left on for 4  days in a drawer by the housekeeper as she was cleaning up. It never did re-charge. Hope that you have better luck.


----------



## Bigbwb

Hey guys,
 New here
  
 Been doing quite  bit of research regarding a new DSD capable DAC to replace my existing Parasound Zdac.  Ive been a member of the Computer Audiophile forum for some time and found my way here as well!  The DAC that caught my eye and attention is the ifi Micro IDSD.  For $500 it seems tough to beat.
  
 My setup so you guys have some background to work off of -
 Ascend Acoustic Sierra Towers with RAAL
 Parasound Halo A21 amp
 Parasound Halo P5 pre
 Currently building a new CAPS server with Intel i5, mini Itx MB, 8GB RAM, Streamcom F8 case, PPA USB v2 card, Samsung SSD, etc.
  
  
 Here are a few questions I have before making the leap:
 I know there is a ifi "Pro line" IDSD coming in a month or so, does it pay to wait?  Pricing looks to be around $1500 which might be a bit more than I want to spend
  
 Does the current Micro IDSD handle PCM just as well as DSD files?  I ask because the large majority of my collection is CD files ripped to FLAC and some other High res stuff.
  
 Am I missing any other DSD capable DACs in the $1k or under price range that would suit my needs?
  
 Thank you in advance!
 Brandon


----------



## TheAttorney

Hi Brandon
  
 I doubt if anyone can yet say whether the pro version will be worth the extra cost over the micro iDSD, but it certainly looks promising. If you can spare the cash, my guess is it would be worth waiting for. However, as it's mains-only desktop, it's a very diffrent target usage to the portable micro iDSD.
  
 Back to the iDSD, it handles redbook FLAC files really, really well if you're prepared to do some updsampling/conversion. ALL my computer music files are CD-ripped-to-FLAC so far (so I can't comment on how it handles hi rez files).
  
 If you want to get the best out of the iDSD, I recommend you look at the more specialised playback software: HQPlayer, JPlay, Fizelizer, AO and Bug Head Emperor (or something like that). As you come from computeraudio, you probably know more about these than I do, but if not, my thoughts on the first 3 are on the JPlay 6 thread (I haven't tried the last 2).
  
 The combination of HQP, JPlay and Fidelizer (all working in unison) simply transforms the sound of redbook through the iDSD, Particularly when using HQP to convert on the fly to DSD (others prefer sticking with PCM, so YMMV).
  
 I haven't tried any other comparable DACs. I did my research and went straight for the iDSD and have found no reason to look for anything else in that price range (my TOTL desktop search is an altogether different matter).


----------



## lucidreamer

digitallc said:


> Similar story happened to me last month - left on for 4  days in a drawer. It never did re-charge. Hope that you have better luck.


 
  
 Wow.... this is really scary. Did the red light go on too? Did you try to turn it off and connect to some USB power supply to recharge the internal battery? It may take a few hours or so to do it and the unit should power on after the battery has some juice in it. Complete charge can be 24-48 hrs depending on the supply.
  
 I think it should not be the case with the unit turning into a brick if left powered on and unplugged for a few days or even months. The internal battery is drained and, if I understand correctly, the unit shuts down if the battery voltage is too low and it needs the battery to run even when plugged in. But why it would not recharge after the battery is drained???? Does the battery get drained completely and cannot be recharged again, like Li-Po type batteries? I read that the internal circuit in iDSD Micro has a voltage drop prevention mechanism that shuts off the battery to prevent the complete discharge, is it not true?
  
 iFi Team - please chime in to shed some light on that. Is there a possible hardware or software bug that prevents the battery to pick up the charge? I am now afraid to leave my unit unplugged when going out of town for a few days or something like that.
  
 Once the similar thing happened to me too before I got the iUSB power supply. I listened to the music the night before in battery mode and did not charge it over night, then listened to iDSD all day long while working, then around 4 it shuts down by itself. I turned it off, turn it on while connected to my USB laptop port, but it will not power on, the blue light goes on followed by the red light. I got scared that my iDSD went bad or something. Then I just left it alone for like 30-45 minutes, tried again and it powered on. I kept on listening to the music in USB-powered mode and later it took quite a bit to recharge, the blue light is on then off.
  
 Hopefully it helps and nothing is wrong with your iDSD, just needs some charge maybe?


----------



## lucidreamer

triodemode said:


> Also, make sure the mode switch is set to ECO so it will only draw power from the USB port.


 
  
 Just curious.... Is that in the manual? I understand that it draws the power from the USB port when turned on AFTER plugged it into the USB port. When turned on BEFORE plugging into the port, it runs on internal battery instead of using the power from the USB 5V current.
  
 I do not know if ECO/Normal/Turbo switch has anything to do with the power mode, it only affects the wattage from the headphone amplifier.


----------



## happybuyer

lucidreamer said:


> Once the similar thing happened to me too before I got the iUSB power supply.


 
  
 What is an iUSB power supply?
  
 I have been connecting the iDSD to my work laptop with the supplied blue USB cable.
  
 Is there a different/better charger I should be using?


----------



## Sound Eq

with my shure 846 iem boy do i notice the changes in setting of filters and iem match alot alot, but no so much with my audeze lcd2 why is that


----------



## lucidreamer

happybuyer said:


> What is an iUSB power supply?
> 
> I have been connecting the iDSD to my work laptop with the supplied blue USB cable.
> 
> Is there a different/better charger I should be using?


 
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusbpower/
  
 MusicDirect.com sells it for $229 and $199 sometimes.
  
 iDSD can be re-charged from any laptop using the supplied blue cable. It works great in USB mode too in terms of sound quality but still sounds better in battery mode depending on how clean your USB power is, some people reported different audio quality with different machines. However, for the best quality I would recommend iUSB which supplies very clean USB power to iDSD and it can operate 24/7 without the battery being drained, etc.


----------



## happybuyer

Interesting! I want one...
  
 What are the cable connections for a laptop with the audio files and JRiver, the iDSD, and an iUSB. Is there a diagram somewhere? None of the manuals on their site seems to show how to hook it up.


----------



## lucidreamer

happybuyer said:


> Interesting! I want one...
> 
> What are the cable connections for a laptop with the audio files and JRiver, the iDSD, and an iUSB. Is there a diagram somewhere? None of the manuals on their site seems to show how to hook it up.


 
  
 Pretty simple, no need for the diagram. There are plenty of discussions and diagrams online anyways.
  
 1 - Laptop connects to iUSB with the USB cable.
 2 - iUSB connects to iDSD with the USB cable (using the data/power USB output of iUSB). 
 3 - Plug the iUSB into the wall electric outlet using the included 9V adapter.
 4 - Enjoy the music.


----------



## Music Path

lucidreamer said:


> Just curious.... Is that in the manual? I understand that it draws the power from the USB port when turned on AFTER plugged it into the USB port. When turned on BEFORE plugging into the port, it runs on internal battery instead of using the power from the USB 5V current.
> 
> I do not know if ECO/Normal/Turbo switch has anything to do with the power mode, it only affects the wattage from the headphone amplifier.




Same question here, so there is no way to baypass the battery in normal and turbo mode?


----------



## lucidreamer

music path said:


> Same question here, so there is no way to baypass the battery in normal and turbo mode?


 
  
 Normal and turbo modes only affect the volume of the amplifier output in iDSD, they have nothing to do with bypassing the battery. Turbo mode will deplete the internal battery faster than normal or eco modes. To power the iDSD from the internal battery - simply turn on the iDSD then plug in the USB cable. This way the battery can be 'bypassed', however, it is still needed somehow for iDSD to work. Completely or almost completely discharged battery prevents iDSD from even powering on with the USB cable connected or not. Hope that helps.


----------



## Sound Eq

i just love my ifi dsd micro, really its amazing, nothing bad to say about it
  
 thanks so much ifi, u r truely innovators, and i hope u keep up this policy in making it possible to own great devices at reasonable prices and do not venture into insane pricing like other companies do
  
 i sold my chord hugo and no regrets whatsoever on the opposite i am more happy with ifi micro dsd than i was with chord hugo


----------



## Music Path

lucidreamer said:


> Normal and turbo modes only affect the volume of the amplifier output in iDSD, they have nothing to do with bypassing the battery. Turbo mode will deplete the internal battery faster than normal or eco modes. To power the iDSD from laptop/computer USB port (vs the internal battery) - simply turn on the iDSD then plug in the USB cable. This way the battery can be 'bypassed', however, it is still needed somehow for iDSD to work. Completely or almost completely discharged battery prevents iDSD from even powering on with the USB cable connected or not. Hope that helps.


 
 Thanks, that makes sense.


----------



## lucidreamer

I edited my previous post, the correct way to say should really be:
  
 "To power the iDSD *from the internal battery* - simply turn on the iDSD then plug in the USB cable."


----------



## warrior1975

Anyone familiar with this company? 

http://shop.sightandsoundgallery.com/mobile/product.aspx?ProductCode=34aa%2Didsddacmicro&404;http://shop.sightandsoundgallery.com:80/iFi-Micro-iDSD-DAC-Octa-Speed-p/34aa-idsddacmicro.htm?gclid=Cj0KEQjwstaqBRCT38DWpZjJotIBEiQAERS6_CXBYWy6GN3E-pRz5KroXr1DHXGZhrSdpp2b3aCtHaYaAnr28P8HAQ


----------



## lucidreamer

warrior1975 said:


> Anyone familiar with this company?
> 
> http://shop.sightandsoundgallery.com/mobile/product.aspx?ProductCode=34aa%2Didsddacmicro&404;http://shop.sightandsoundgallery.com:80/iFi-Micro-iDSD-DAC-Octa-Speed-p/34aa-idsddacmicro.htm?gclid=Cj0KEQjwstaqBRCT38DWpZjJotIBEiQAERS6_CXBYWy6GN3E-pRz5KroXr1DHXGZhrSdpp2b3aCtHaYaAnr28P8HAQ


 
  
 Looks legit to me. Just the website is half-cooked and made from a template, nothing on About Us page.
  
 Domain Name: SIGHTANDSOUNDGALLERY.COM
 Registry Domain ID: 1693587445_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
 Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
 Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
 Update Date: 2014-12-26T04:12:19Z
 Creation Date: 2011-12-23T23:11:45Z
 Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-12-23T23:11:45Z
 Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
 Registrar IANA ID: 146
 Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com
 Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505
 Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
 Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
 Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
 Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
 Registry Registrant ID: 
 Registrant Name: Charles Berry
 Registrant Organization: Blueberry Capital Holdings
 Registrant Street: P.O. Box 55598
 Registrant City: Atlanta
 Registrant State/Province: Georgia
 Registrant Postal Code: 30308
 Registrant Country: United States
 Registrant Phone: 4042293333
 Registrant Phone Ext:
 Registrant Fax: (678) 528-0264
 Registrant Fax Ext:
 Registrant Email: charlesberry@hotmail.com
 Registry Admin ID: 
 Admin Name: Charles Berry
 Admin Organization: Blueberry Capital Holdings
 Admin Street: P.O. Box 55598
 Admin City: Atlanta
 Admin State/Province: Georgia
 Admin Postal Code: 30308
 Admin Country: United States
 Admin Phone: 4042293333
 Admin Phone Ext:
 Admin Fax: (678) 528-0264
 Admin Fax Ext:
 Admin Email: charlesberry@hotmail.com
 Registry Tech ID: 
 Tech Name: Charles Berry
 Tech Organization: Blueberry Capital Holdings
 Tech Street: P.O. Box 55598
 Tech City: Atlanta
 Tech State/Province: Georgia
 Tech Postal Code: 30308
 Tech Country: United States
 Tech Phone: 4042293333
 Tech Phone Ext:
 Tech Fax: (678) 528-0264
 Tech Fax Ext:
 Tech Email: charlesberry@hotmail.com
 Name Server: NS65.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
 Name Server: NS66.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
 DNSSEC: unsigned
 URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
 Last update of WHOIS database: 2015-5-16T0:00:00Z


----------



## warrior1975

Thanks... They have the idsd in... Very tempted to order it.


----------



## Tobias89

lucidreamer said:


> Normal and turbo modes only affect the volume of the amplifier output in iDSD, they have nothing to do with bypassing the battery. Turbo mode will deplete the internal battery faster than normal or eco modes. To power the iDSD from the internal battery - simply turn on the iDSD then plug in the USB cable. This way the battery can be 'bypassed', however, it is still needed somehow for iDSD to work. Completely or almost completely discharged battery prevents iDSD from even powering on with the USB cable connected or not. Hope that helps.


 
  


lucidreamer said:


> I edited my previous post, the correct way to say should really be:
> 
> "To power the iDSD *from the internal battery* - simply turn on the iDSD then plug in the USB cable."


 
  
 So to use USB power, I'd have to switch off the iDSD, plug in the USB cable, then switch on?
  
 To use battery power, I'd have to switch on the iDSD first, then plug in the USB cable?


----------



## gr8soundz

tobias89 said:


> So to use USB power, I'd have to switch off the iDSD, plug in the USB cable, then switch on?
> 
> To use battery power, I'd have to switch on the iDSD first, then plug in the USB cable?


 
  
 Correct.


----------



## lucidreamer

tobias89 said:


> So to use USB power, I'd have to switch off the iDSD, plug in the USB cable, then switch on?
> 
> To use battery power, I'd have to switch on the iDSD first, then plug in the USB cable?


 

 Correct. Here is a link to the manual in PDF (on Part 8): http://www.wodaudio.de/Downloads/Micro-iDSD-Manual.pdf


----------



## Tobias89

gr8soundz said:


> Correct.


 
  


lucidreamer said:


> Correct. Here is a link to the manual in PDF (on Part 8): http://www.wodaudio.de/Downloads/Micro-iDSD-Manual.pdf


 
 Thanks. Time to decide my purchase!


----------



## Bigbwb

theattorney said:


> Hi Brandon
> 
> I doubt if anyone can yet say whether the pro version will be worth the extra cost over the micro iDSD, but it certainly looks promising. If you can spare the cash, my guess is it would be worth waiting for. However, as it's mains-only desktop, it's a very diffrent target usage to the portable micro iDSD.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the feedback! I'm glad to hear it does well with red book material being that's what I listen to most. I'm sure high res and dsd p,aback will be even better. I do use jriver and fidelizer pro already, so no worries there

I'm going to grab a micro Idsd, see what I think, and go from there. I can always return it and/or try the pro when the time comes.


----------



## Triodemode

lucidreamer said:


> Just curious.... Is that in the manual? I understand that it draws the power from the USB port when turned on AFTER plugged it into the USB port. When turned on BEFORE plugging into the port, it runs on internal battery instead of using the power from the USB 5V current.
> 
> I do not know if ECO/Normal/Turbo switch has anything to do with the power mode, it only affects the wattage from the headphone amplifier. My understanding is when the micro when the iDSD micro is turned on first then plugged into a USB in ECO mode the  In Normal mode the micro pulls power from both the USB and battery which


 
 My understanding is the mode switch affects both the power output and how the unit is charged when turned on.  When plugged into a USB port first then powered up, ECO mode allows the unit to run off USB power and be continously charged.  NORMAL mode uses power from the USB and battery simultaneously, so if the battery was completely drained, ECO is the only mode that can be used if the iDSD's battery is dead.  This was the case with happybuyer's unit.
  
 So, unless one wanted to keep the micro off for 24 hours while the battery is charged, this is the only mode that would allow the unit to be used while the battery is being charged.


----------



## happybuyer

triodemode said:


> My understanding is the mode switch affects both the power output and how the unit is charged when turned on.  When plugged into a USB port first then powered up, ECO mode allows the unit to run off USB power and be continously charged.  NORMAL mode uses power from the USB and battery simultaneously, so if the battery was completely drained, ECO is the only mode that can be used if the iDSD's battery is dead.  This was the case with happybuyer's unit.
> 
> So, unless one wanted to keep the micro off for 24 hours while the battery is charged, this is the only mode that would allow the unit to be used while the battery is being charged.


 
  
 Makes sense.
  
 Is the idea behind running off battery that it produces cleaner power? If so, it sounds like NORMAL mixes battery and USB power, so whatever improvements could be had from just battery are forfeited anyway.
  
 Regarding the iUSB power supply, I didn't see anything on iFi's site that showed any improvement in specs when using the iUSB compared to just using USB power from a computer.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> My understanding is the mode switch affects both the power output and how the unit is charged when turned on.  When plugged into a USB port first then powered up, ECO mode allows the unit to run off USB power and be continously charged.  NORMAL mode uses power from the USB and battery simultaneously, so if the battery was completely drained, ECO is the only mode that can be used if the iDSD's battery is dead.  This was the case with happybuyer's unit.
> 
> So, unless one wanted to keep the micro off for 24 hours while the battery is charged, this is the only mode that would allow the unit to be used while the battery is being charged.


 
  
 Actually all three modes drain battery when connected to *normal* (= low power) USB port. The difference is just how fast the battery is discharged, with Eco mode being slowest while Turbo mode being fastest. That being said, leaving micro iDSD turned on in Eco mode will still eventually drain the battery, given enough time. You will have to turn iDSD *off *to make sure it can be properly charged.
  
 The solution is to use a BC1.2 supported USB hub, which will provide much higher charging power than normal USB port and will allow charging even with Turbo mode.


----------



## Triodemode

happybuyer said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> Is the idea behind running off battery that it produces cleaner power? If so, it sounds like NORMAL mixes battery and USB power, so whatever improvements could be had from just battery are forfeited anyway.
> 
> Regarding the iUSB power supply, I didn't see anything on iFi's site that showed any improvement in specs when using the iUSB compared to just using USB power from a computer.


 

 I notice a quieter background when the micro is turned on before the USB is connected (running off battery)  Not sure if iFi agrees with this though.  Yes NORMAL draws from both USB and battery IF the USB is connected before the micro is turned on. 
  
 As long as the USB is continuously supplying power from the computer and the micro is set to ECO mode, it can be left on 24/7.  The smart charging circutry will automatically charge it's battery.  This is how I use my micro BTW.


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> Actually all three modes drain battery when connected to *normal* USB port. The difference is just how fast the battery is discharged, with Eco mode being slowest while Turbo mode being fastest. That being said, leaving micro iDSD turned on in Eco mode will still eventually drain the battery, given enough time. You will have to turn iDSD *off *to make sure it can be properly charged.
> 
> The solution is to use a BC1.2 supported USB hub, which will provide much higher charging power than normal USB port and will allow charging even with Turbo mode.


 

 Interesting...  I was able to use my micro in ECO mode with the battery completely drained, as long as it was connected to my computer's USB before the micro was turned on.


----------



## diamondears

triodemode said:


> Interesting...  I was able to use my micro in ECO mode with the battery completely drained, as long as it was connected to my computer's USB before the micro was turned on.



I think ClieOS is saying what happens when you run the micro iDSD on battery (you turn it in before plugging into a USB port)? You're right, if you plug the micro iDSD into an operational USB port before you turn on the micro iDSD, it gets power from the USB to operate, not to charge.


----------



## Triodemode

diamondears said:


> I think ClieOS is saying what happens when you run the micro iDSD on battery (you turn it in before plugging into a USB port)? You're right, if you plug the micro iDSD into an operational USB port before you turn on the micro iDSD, it gets power from the USB to operate, not to charge.


 

 I have had no issue in keeping the battery charged since owning the micro using it under the following conditions connected to my computer...
  
 1. With the battery charged, turn the micro on
 2. Connect it to a continously powered USB computer port (even when the computer is turned off)
 3. Keep the unit mode switch in ECO position.
  
 I only use the micro as a DAC with fixed RCA oputput selected.  Never had the battery go dead even when listening through it all day.  After the absence of sound from my computer for several minutes, the micro LED would eithr flash green indicating a stanby condition, or if the battery was low it would turn blue.  Never had the micro's battery go dead using it under these conditions.  I run UBS 3.0 which delivers more output power, so maybe this is why I am not running into charging issues.


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> I think ClieOS is saying what happens when you run the micro iDSD on battery (you turn it in before plugging into a USB port)? You're right, if you plug the micro iDSD into an operational USB port before you turn on the micro iDSD, it gets power from the USB to operate, not to charge.


 
  
 No, what I have said applies when you turn the micro iDSD *after *connecting it to USB port (a.k.a. USB charging mode / USB power mode). If you turn the micro iDSD on *before* connection, it will run in battery mode and will *not* charge before the battery is fully depleted (*then it shuts itself down, recharge to a safe level before allowed to be turned back on). However with one exception:
  


ifi audio said:


> Eco mode, can charge battery from normal USB port at a rate of maybe 100mA, so around 48 Hours needed of Charge & Play to bring a flat battery back. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
> 
> Normal mode, no charging current available, audio peaks may eat into the battery so it may eventually go flat. Sleep mode allows 300mA charging, so 16 Hours in sleep mode come back from a flat battery.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now what I haven't mentioned clearly in my previous comment is sleep mode - in USB power mode, micro iDSD will automatically go into sleep mode if there is no signal for 15 minutes (or in 3 minutes in battery mode), allowing it to lower its power consumption and therefore allows for battery recharging, but at a very slow pace. That is the reason why you didn't see battery runs flat all the time, as it goes into sleep mode and recharge itself, regardless what gain mode you are in, as long as you leave your iDSD alone for long enough time. But if you are using it all the time, then it will still drain the battery.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> ... I run UBS 3.0 which delivers more output power, so maybe this is why I am not running into charging issues.


 
  
 Yes, many newer USB implementations do begin to support BC1.2, though you don't need USB3.0 to support it as BC1.2 is USB2.0 compatible. Unfortunately  it really depends on the PC (or USB port) manufacturer's implementation


----------



## Triodemode

clieos said:


> No, what I have said applies when you turn the micro iDSD *after *connecting it to USB port (a.k.a. USB charging mode / USB power mode). If you turn the micro iDSD on *before* connection, it will run in battery mode and will *not* charge before the battery is fully depleted (*then it shuts itself down, recharge to a safe level before allowed to be turned back on). However with one exception:
> 
> 
> Now what I haven't mentioned clearly in my previous comment is sleep mode - in USB power mode, micro iDSD will automatically go into sleep mode if there is no signal for 15 minutes (or in 3 minutes in battery mode), allowing it to lower its power consumption and therefore allows for battery recharging, but at a very slow pace. That is the reason why you didn't see battery runs flat all the time, as it goes into sleep mode and recharge itself, regardless what gain mode you are in, as long as you leave your iDSD alone for long enough time. But if you are using it all the time, then it will still drain the battery.


 
 This is my underestanding also ClieOS...  Maybe I am just lucky that my USB port is able to charging my unit at a rate that supplies enough chrging curent to prevent the battery from dischrging completely throughout the day.  I do notice the next morning that it sometimes will still be in charge mode from the previous days listening session. 
  
 But like I said, never had it shut off from a complete discharge before having finised using it all day.


----------



## Triodemode

triodemode said:


> This is my underestanding also ClieOS...  Maybe I am just lucky that my USB port is able to supply enough chrging curent to prevent the battery from dischrging completely throughout the day.  I do notice the next morning that it sometimes will still be in charge mode from the previous days listening session.
> 
> But like I said, never had it shut off from a complete discharge before having finised using it all day.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> No, what I have said applies when you turn the micro iDSD *after* connecting it to USB port (a.k.a. USB charging mode / USB power mode). If you turn the micro iDSD on *before* connection, it will run in battery mode and will *not* charge before the battery is fully depleted (*then it shuts itself down, recharge to a safe level before allowed to be turned back on). However with one exception:
> 
> 
> Now what I haven't mentioned clearly in my previous comment is sleep mode - in USB power mode, micro iDSD will automatically go into sleep mode if there is no signal for 15 minutes (or in 3 minutes in battery mode), allowing it to lower its power consumption and therefore allows for battery recharging, but at a very slow pace. That is the reason why you didn't see battery runs flat all the time, as it goes into sleep mode and recharge itself, regardless what gain mode you are in, as long as you leave your iDSD alone for long enough time. But if you are using it all the time, then it will still drain the battery.



Thanks ClieOS. All along I thought the micro iDSD gets power directly from the USB port if plugged first before turning it on.


----------



## diamondears

Manual says "USB Power" if you connect to computer first and then turn on the volume knob. "Battery Power" if you turn on volume knob first before connecting to computer. No?


----------



## leafs

floydfan33 said:


> I'm currently using the iDSD with a Gustard H10 and it's working very well.


 
  
 Noted, thanks for your feedback.
  


evolvist said:


> I run my iDSD micro into my SPL Auditor Headphone amp, which is a pro audio design for mastering.
> 
> In fact, I just recently was asked to bring my SPL Auditor out to a recording session, where we listened, first, to some mixes with HD800s just coming out of a Berringer mixing board. It sounded good! When we then hooked up the SPL Auditor out of the board, listening through the same cans, you could now here how narrow the stereo mix was, when they had spent a lot of time with stereo placement. We took it a step further and hooked up the iDSD micro to the whole rig, with the Auditor, and now you could hear every little digital glitch, or imperfect edit done in the digital domain. The tracks were really put under a microscope to where quite a few thing needed to be cleaned up, including regaining some dynamic range, which was lost only by mixing with through monitors.
> 
> In short, my home rig told the truth...and by referencing some choice tracks, they were able to get what they had wanted...and more!


 
 Interesting, thanks for sharing. iFi iDSD micro has received many positive reviews. Their upcoming iDSD Pro is one that I am looking forward to as well. It can be used single-ended or balanced, something that I am looking for to use with Liquid Carbon. So exciting.


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Manual says "USB Power" if you connect to computer first and then turn on the volume knob. "Battery Power" if you turn on volume knob first before connecting to computer. No?


 
  
 It is, but we are not talking about whether it is USB power or battery mode, but how micro iDSD drain or charge its battery in both modes.


----------



## diamondears

clieos said:


> It is, but we are not talking about whether it is USB power or battery mode, but how micro iDSD drain or charge its battery in both modes.



If on USB Power mode, why would the micro iDSD drain its battery? It's not 100% getting power from USB?


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> If on USB Power mode, why would the micro iDSD drain its battery? It's not 100% getting power from USB?


 
  
 Yes, not all USB port outputs enough current to both power and charge the micro iDSD at the same time. Therefore you will need a high power USB port to make sure there will always be enough. Otherwise just either turn it off or leave it to go to sleep mode for long enough time to make sure it will recharge itself back.


----------



## john57

Or use the USB3 ports for more current.


----------



## happybuyer

Let me see if I can correctly summarize, with questions:
  
 Case 1:
  
 -- Start with unit unplugged from USB and with volume turned off (unit turned off).
  
 -- Plug into USB.
  
 -- Turn on unit.
  
 -- Unit will draw power from USB.
  
 -- If using USB port with sufficient power, battery will charge.
  
 -- If not using USB port with sufficient power, unit will operate but battery will not charge.
  
 Case 2:
  
 -- Start with unit unplugged from USB and turned off.
  
 -- Turn on unit.
  
 -- Now it is running from battery (assuming battery is charged, else it is a brick until it charges).
  
 -- Plug into USB.
  
 -- If using USB port with sufficient power, battery will charge. <<< IS THIS TRUE IN THIS CASE?
  
 -- If not using USB port with sufficient power, unit will operated but battery will not charge. <<< IS THIS TRUE, OR MOOT, IN THIS CASE?
  
 Case 3:
  
 -- Start with unit unplugged from USB and turned off.
  
 -- Plug into USB (and do not turn on).
  
 -- Battery will charge. <<< IS THIS TRUE?
  
 I have no use for the battery, and only want it to stay charged so the unit doesn't brick on me until recharged, which was how I started this entire thread (it bricked).
  
 I think in order to do that, I just need to:
  
 -- Make sure it's turned off when not plugged in.
  
 -- Plug it into USB and then turn it on, which will make it run from USB and make it charge the battery.
  
 Is that correct?
  
 By the way, what does a white light mean? I've seen blue and green, but today it is white.


----------



## JuleZ3C

Case 1  : global answer is YES
 but:
 -- Unit will draw power from USB.  --> yes but could also dig in the battery if needed (if NORMAL or TURBO mode is used, and also depending on the BC1.2 compatibility of the USB port)
  
 Case 2:
  
 -- If using USB port with sufficient power, battery will charge. <<< IS THIS TRUE IN THIS CASE?  
 -- If not using USB port with sufficient power, unit will operated but battery will not charge. <<< IS THIS TRUE, OR MOOT, IN THIS CASE?
  
 iFi Quote: 





> "In battery mode the iDSD micro will charge while in sleep mode if it is attached to a "strong" power source (PC), it will indicate this as well (LED goes blue). *Otherwise during play no current is drawn from USB."*


 
  
 Case 3:  YUP 
  
 All the answers are here and there
  
 You could also use it in battery mode, and let it plugged in for some time after each session (with all media players stopped or mapped to another DAC/soundcard... so that it can go in sleep mode and charge the battery)
  
 White light means that there's no communication through USB/coax/optical (don't remember how it lits up when using analog in)


----------



## kurb1980

If you don't want to worry about the battery, I recommend the iUSB power it pairs perfectly with the Micro I can attest to no issues what so ever.  I also have the mercury and gemini cables for the CPU to iUSB and Gemini to Micro.  I just added the HDPlex Fanless linear power supply for CPU and iUSB which adds another level of clarity.  I cannot believe how low the noise floor is on this combo.


----------



## jagu

I went for the UpTone Audio USB REGEN instead for the iUSB. I expect it to arrive in late June. Just an alternative to the ifi iUSB which takes it a bit further with the separation of audio and power with the Gemini cable. 

I just tapatalked!


----------



## JuleZ3C

jagu said:


> I went for the UpTone Audio USB REGEN instead for the iUSB. I expect it to arrive in late June. Just an alternative to the ifi iUSB which takes it a bit further with the separation of audio and power with the Gemini cable.


 
  
 Packet noise theory behind this seems sound, they got me quite interested. (it's a different approach than the iUSB, as it regenerates the data flow)
 I got to dig a bit more before ordering though...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Use the highest setting it gives the most details. Why cause we lose bits I digital volume controls. Now is it's a step resistor then it does not matter. As for in abc that's a shame mine does not do this. On any of digital products I use the highest settings for most full sound. 
It's the same on my hdpr10 by hibino. Digital attenuation is a bad thing sometimes. Let's all try a end report back. But to make it fair it must tried a higher volume meaning loud enough to pickup the improvement. And no. I don't always listen this way. But I do to evail stuff.


----------



## axax

İs there anybody use or try idsd with duet amp ? How is improvement ? and I want to use it with phone is that possible ?


----------



## KritiKal

alrainbow said:


> Use the highest setting it gives the most details. Why cause we lose bits I digital volume controls. Now is it's a step resistor then it does not matter. As for in abc that's a shame mine does not do this. On any of digital products I use the highest settings for most full sound.
> It's the same on my hdpr10 by hibino. Digital attenuation is a bad thing sometimes. Let's all try a end report back. But to make it fair it must tried a higher volume meaning loud enough to pickup the improvement. And no. I don't always listen this way. But I do to evail stuff.




The volume pot for the iDSD is in the analogue stage, as are the gain settings, afaik.


----------



## Mr Creosote

Agreed. Don't think it is digital control for volume.


----------



## Triodemode

earfonia said:


> From your description, I suggest you try Audio-Technica ATH-R70x. It sounds more natural than HD 650, and pairs wonderfully with micro iDSD + iCAN. Even without iCAN, R70x will be the only headphone I recommend for micro iDSD. Somehow it compensates the dryness headphone output of micro iDSD really well.


 

 The R70x does indeed pair beautifully with the iDSD micro.  This is the first headphone that I actually enjoy listening to through it's built in amplifier for any length of time.


----------



## marcus1

I might have missed this but can someone tell me if I can charge the micro's internal battery by pluging a charger into the smartpower connection on the side of the micro. 
Reason I ask is that I want to keep a short OTG cable permanently in the micro's USB input so being able to charge the battery via the smartpower usb connection would be a bonus. I sppose I could try it but don't want to damage anything.

Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

marcus1 said:


> I might have missed this but can someone tell me if I can charge the micro's internal battery by pluging a charger into the smartpower connection on the side of the micro.
> Reason I ask is that I want to keep a short OTG cable permanently in the micro's USB input so being able to charge the battery via the smartpower usb connection would be a bonus. I sppose I could try it but don't want to damage anything.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The side power connector is to recharge an external device. eg iPhone.
  
 It cannot be used to recharge the micro iDSD.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ClieOS

marcus1 said:


> I might have missed this but can someone tell me if I can charge the micro's internal battery by pluging a charger into the smartpower connection on the side of the micro.
> Reason I ask is that I want to keep a short OTG cable permanently in the micro's USB input so being able to charge the battery via the smartpower usb connection would be a bonus. I sppose I could try it but don't want to damage anything.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 As stated by, you can't. However, if it is a desktop setup - you can try adding a self-powered USB hub (with BC1.2 support) in between your smartphone and micro iDSD and it should be able to keep charging the micro iDSD while in use. If it is meant for portable use and you don't mind carrying a big power bank, an 'OTG power injector' (search eBay) might help. Haven't tried one myself though.


----------



## Bigbwb

Ok, dumb question.....
 Just received my Micro IDSD (haven't installed it yet).  Looking to use it as a strictly desktop DAC only.  The USB input will be coming from my music server that stays on 24/7.  What setting do I use on the IDSD so that it stays operational/charged at all times?
  
 Second question, I have the Uptone Regen USB "filtration" unit coming.  It will be placed in between the music server and the DAC.  Will this change anything?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## john57

bigbwb said:


> Ok, dumb question.....
> Just received my Micro IDSD (haven't installed it yet).  Looking to use it as a strictly desktop DAC only.  The USB input will be coming from my music server that stays on 24/7.  What setting do I use on the IDSD so that it stays operational/charged at all times?
> 
> Second question, I have the Uptone Regen USB "filtration" unit coming.  It will be placed in between the music server and the DAC.  Will this change anything?
> ...


 
 I have connected my micro 24/7 on a full time USB without any issues. The micro will go to sleep in 13 minutes with no signal but the battery will still be top off as needed. The micro does come with a USB filter built-in.


----------



## knorris908

bigbwb said:


> Ok, dumb question.....
> Just received my Micro IDSD (haven't installed it yet).  Looking to use it as a strictly desktop DAC only.  The USB input will be coming from my music server that stays on 24/7.  What setting do I use on the IDSD so that it stays operational/charged at all times?
> 
> Second question, I have the Uptone Regen USB "filtration" unit coming.  It will be placed in between the music server and the DAC.  Will this change anything?
> ...


 
 1 - Congratuations!
 2- NOT a dumb question.  I leave my iFi iDSD Micro in my entertainment center 9/10ths of the time at this point.  Power from the HTPC's USB port provides enough power to keep the iDSD Micro charged and running.  Just a couple of things to note:

The iDSD must receive power from the USB before being turned on itself, or else it will run off of its internal battery.
The PC may reboot due to Windows updates or other reasons.  Be SURE to turn off, and then turn back on the iDSD micro while receiving USB power to have the iDSD Micro resume running off USB power rather than its internal battery.
I STRONGLY suggest running your iDSD Micro in either NORMAL or ECO modes to ensure that the power draw does not exceed the power supplied by your USB port.  (Especially if the USB port doesn't provide higher levels of power.)
I also suggest that you use the PREAMPLIFIER setting so that your power levels and volume remain consistent.
  
 As for your second questioin, the iDSD Micro already has an iPURIFY function built-in so I'm not sure that there will be much change, but as always, I am a proponent of "Try it!" and then please let us know how it sounds to you.  
  
 Ken N.


----------



## Bigbwb

knorris908 said:


> 1 - Congratuations!
> 2- NOT a dumb question.  I leave my iFi iDSD Micro in my entertainment center 9/10ths of the time at this point.  Power from the HTPC's USB port provides enough power to keep the iDSD Micro charged and running.  Just a couple of things to note:
> 
> The iDSD must receive power from the USB before being turned on itself, or else it will run off of its internal battery.
> ...


 

 Wow, thank you guys for the quick and detailed information!  It sounds like its an easy setup as long as its receiving USB power prior to turning the IDSD on!
  
 The Uptone Audio regen is a new product from some folks over on computeraudiophile forums.  Pretty interesting stuff!  Its more than just a filter.  Almost unanimous praise, which is unusual for this type of product.


----------



## KritiKal

bigbwb said:


> Wow, thank you guys for the quick and detailed information!  It sounds like its an easy setup as long as its receiving USB power prior to turning the IDSD on!
> 
> The Uptone Audio regen is a new product from some folks over on computeraudiophile forums.  Pretty interesting stuff!  Its more than just a filter.  Almost unanimous praise, which is unusual for this type of product.




I don't think the Regen applies any filters (other than a few resistors on the ground and shield on the unreleased version). It uses a new, clean power signal while aslo reclocking the data signal with reduced jitter. Effectively, it recreates the entire USB signal. So, you should find differences between this and the ipurifier and they might even sound good together!


----------



## marcus1

OK, thanks for your replies.



clieos said:


> As stated by, you can't. However, if it is a desktop setup - you can try adding a self-powered USB hub (with BC1.2 support) in between your smartphone and micro iDSD and it should be able to keep charging the micro iDSD while in use. If it is meant for portable use and you don't mind carrying a big power bank, an 'OTG power injector' (search eBay) might help. Haven't tried one myself though.


----------



## lucidreamer

knorris908 said:


> I also suggest that you use the PREAMPLIFIER setting so that your power levels and volume remain consistent.


 
 Not sure I get that point.
  
 I always thought that the Pre-amp would better suit for pairing Micro with a power amplifier that has no volume controls. When connecting to a headphone amplifier the Direct mode should output cleaner signal (at least in theory) because it bypasses extra amplification stage inside Micro.
  
 Am I missing something maybe? What is the benefit of using the Pre-amp mode when connecting it to a headphone amp?


----------



## knorris908

lucidreamer said:


> Not sure I get that point.
> 
> I always thought that the Pre-amp would better suit for pairing Micro with a power amplifier that has no volume controls. When connecting to a headphone amplifier the Direct mode should output cleaner signal (at least in theory) because it bypasses extra amplification stage inside Micro.
> 
> Am I missing something maybe? What is the benefit of using the Pre-amp mode when connecting it to a headphone amp?


 

 No worries.
  
 Pre-amp mode is a "fixed" volume/power setting specifically for connection to another device (amp) that will control the volume.  I think of it as a fixed, "Line-out" setting for the iDSD Micro to go into an external amp.


----------



## lucidreamer

knorris908 said:


> No worries.
> 
> Pre-amp mode is a "fixed" volume/power setting specifically for connection to another device (amp) that will control the volume.  I think of it as a fixed, "Line-out" setting for the iDSD Micro to go into an external amp.


 

 Ok, thanks, makes sense, talking about the same thing, just different terminology.


----------



## ClieOS

knorris908 said:


> No worries.
> 
> Pre-amp mode is a "fixed" volume/power setting specifically for connection to another device (amp) that will control the volume.  I think of it as a fixed, "Line-out" setting for the iDSD Micro to go into an external amp.


 
  
 'Direct' mode is where micro iDSD outputs a fixed voltage / volume line-out signal. 'Pre-amp' mode is where the RCA output is variable and micro iDSD acts as a pre-amp.


----------



## technobear

clieos said:


> knorris908 said:
> 
> 
> > No worries.
> ...




Correct. Furthermore, the position of the direct/pre-amp switch has no effect whatsoever on the headphone output.


----------



## KritiKal

So I have a question about this whole initial 24 hour initial charge recommendation.

After 5 1/2 weeks of waiting (even though the vendor was selling as "in stock") I finally have my iDSD micro. Now I have it charging on a BC1.2 complaint 2.1A charger, using the supplied 3.0 cable. It fully charged in about 1 hour (blue light has switched off) So, is there any *actual* benefit in leaving this on charge? Is it no longer drawing a current, or is the battery still charging-albeit in minute quantities- even though the device indicates it is no longer charging?

I will leave it plugged in for 24 hours, but it just seems a lottle pointless to me if the battery is not being charged in any manner or way once the blue light switches off.

_EDIT:Furthermore, is the initial reccomended charging time reduced when charging the iDSD at its max charging rate?_


----------



## iFi audio

kritikal said:


> So I have a question about this whole initial 24 hour initial charge recommendation.
> 
> After 5 1/2 weeks of waiting (even though the vendor was selling as "in stock") I finally have my iDSD micro. Now I have it charging on a BC1.2 complaint 2.1A charger, using the supplied 3.0 cable. It fully charged in about 1 hour (blue light has switched off) So, is there any *actual* benefit in leaving this on charge? Is it no longer drawing a current, or is the battery still charging-albeit in minute quantities- even though the device indicates it is no longer charging?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The 24 Hour charging recommendation is "maximum sandbagging" for the case where the unit has been left in stock (storage) long enough to fully discharge AND where a standard USB port (not BC1.2) is used. The battery inside the micro iDSD is BIG - so from flat to full, it will take a long time to charge.
  
 From the factory the battery comes around 80% charged (will vary a little). Seems your unit is essentially "Factory Fresh" and you have a high power charger (~ 6 Hours from Flat to Full).
  
 So if in your case, once the battery charge indicator is off, no problem, you can use the unit.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## KritiKal

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The 24 Hour charging recommendation is "maximum sandbagging" for the case where the unit has been left in stock (storage) long enough to fully discharge AND where a standard USB port (not BC1.2) is used. The battery inside the micro iDSD is BIG - so from flat to full, it will take a long time to charge.
> 
> ...




Excellent, that's good to know and what I thought would be the case. Yes, my unit is about as fresh as they come, the vendor was waiting for you to ship them to him and then sent mine out the day he received the shipment.  Will give it a whirl shortly, thank you very much.


----------



## lucidreamer

Just found some cool trick in Foobar using the Resampler DSP plug-in and want to share it.
  
 The sample rate list there is up until 96000, but if you type in manually 192000 and anything else, it will eat it without errors.
  
 I tried 192000 and there was a small improvement in sound after upsampling compared to the default 44100 rate. 
  
 Then I tried 768000 and really like the sound, it is even better and more natural compared to DSD256 or DSD512 which is a little bit congested and too smooth, I think, even though I was raving about it before. The iDSD light goes white which means the sample rate works great with the DAC.
  
 I think 768000 upsampling really sounds awesome with the Standard filter applied in iDSD Micro. No hi-freq rolled off and the sound is very transparent and clear.
  
 Did anyone try that too by chance? Any suggestions?


----------



## knorris908

clieos said:


> 'Direct' mode is where micro iDSD outputs a fixed voltage / volume line-out signal. 'Pre-amp' mode is where the RCA output is variable and micro iDSD acts as a pre-amp.




Thanks ClieOS! My eyes aren't what they used to be...
I took another peek, and the switch IS indeed in the DIRECT position. My apologies.

Ken N.


----------



## Dobrescu George

lucidreamer said:


> Just found some cool trick in Foobar using the Resampler DSP plug-in and want to share it.
> 
> The sample rate list there is up until 96000, but if you type in manually 192000 and anything else, it will eat it without errors.
> 
> ...


 
 You can also try the SoX plugin for foobar, HQplayer, xxhigh end (it is a headache to set up), or look at my project (signature) for something similar.
  
 Another piece of advice, before I finish my project, if you want to make foobar sound even better (for some it is night and day) add fidelizer to your routine if you are using windows, it is awesome!


----------



## KritiKal

Okay, I'm having something strange occuring which I've never experienced with any audio equipment in my life.
So I hooked everything up and started listening. All was well for about 15 minutes, but I noticed (felt more than heard, and relatively painfully) the occasional energetic high frequency (just in (or perhaps just out of?) my hearing range (17.5kHz)). After a couple of times, I pulled my IEM's out and I immediately noticed a low frequency hum in my left ear. It seemed to dissipate completely with certain noises (the sound of something knocking on a wooden table, crack of my neck, humming) and even went away when I put my finger in my ear, only to come back immediately after. after about ten minutes it had almost subsided, so I did a few sine wave sweeps and noticed nothing out of the ordinary. But, I listened some more and of course, it happened again.

I want to experiment and find the cause, but I don't want to do any serious damage to my hearing. I'm using the iDSD with Onkyo HF player upsampling to 192kHz (could this be the app somehow causing an occasional spike?), minimum phase filter, X-Bass & 3D on, (and what I think is) a moderate to moderate-high volume, all running through to my S-EM6 IEM's.

I'm really at a loss as to what's going on here, so any theories are greatly appreciated. The humming seems to be gone now, but I will obviously have to find out what the issue is, otherwise it's not using it at all, or using it and going deaf very quickly!


----------



## KritiKal

Well, the scientist got the better of me and I decided to experiment (knowledge over safety, after all.
To cut a long post short, my old Amp/DAC with the same phone and IEM's still gave the same hum afterwards, but I think this is due to the sound exacerbating the issue rather, than my phone or phones as I didn't detect a high frequency peak. I then replaced that DAC with the iDSD barebones and used the process of addition to find the culprit. Everything switched back on with no death noise. So, for the moment, everything is okay. But I'm going to try this test again in the next few days to prove it


----------



## lucidreamer

dobrescu george said:


> You can also try the SoX plugin for foobar, HQplayer, xxhigh end (it is a headache to set up), or look at my project (signature) for something similar.
> 
> Another piece of advice, before I finish my project, if you want to make foobar sound even better (for some it is night and day) add fidelizer to your routine if you are using windows, it is awesome!


 
 Thanks George. I prefer to stick to Foobar because it streams audio from my Subsonic server perfectly and sounds awesome, will need to try SoX plugin to compare it with the Resampler.
  
 I ran the free Fidelizer and did not notice any differences in either Workstation or Audiophile mode. Looks like the free app just does something to the system and then runs in the background until the next restart. Hopefully it will not damage my current setup, there are some people who reported that after applying this app the playback began to stutter, etc. I really do not see the need for this application because in ASIO mode - the output signal bypasses the kernel and goes straight to DAC, the taskbar volume control has no effect.
  
 The only benefit using that app may be re-allocating the system resources that can help some systems and provide smoother playback. I already tweaked my laptop to disable unnecessary services, made some registry and other tweaks, etc. It does not really affect the audio, but helps to run everything faster.
  
 But it is hard hard to believe that already properly configured system may have night and day difference after using Fidalizer.


----------



## Dobrescu George

lucidreamer said:


> Thanks George. I prefer to stick to Foobar because it streams audio from my Subsonic server perfectly and sounds awesome, will need to try SoX plugin to compare it with the Resampler.
> 
> I ran the free Fidelizer and did not notice any differences in either Workstation or Audiophile mode. Looks like the free app just does something to the system and then runs in the background until the next restart. Hopefully it will not damage my current setup, there are some people who reported that after applying this app the playback began to stutter, etc. I really do not see the need for this application because in ASIO mode - the output signal bypasses the kernel and goes straight to DAC, the taskbar volume control has no effect.
> 
> ...


 
 I totally agree with you, friend. Fidelizer is not that usefull if you already have optimized your system, but for most people it makes a big difference.
  
 Hqplayer, on the other hand comes in very handy with idsd micro, it is able to pull even more than other resampling algorithms are. My algorithm is even further optimized, and has a pleathora of features, inclusive the ability to stream like foobar does, and the best part, it is free! Sadly, it is not ready yet, and might take a while before it is ready, but i promise, it is going to be a good contender!
  
 You should give SoX a try, it sounds even better than the original resampler, but it is harder to setup, because the settings make much less sense, while if you manage to set it right, it sounds very good!


----------



## Wyd4

Considering one of these for my Ref1 iems.
 I would primarily be using it for these, however the power would be handy as I kind of love the Mr Speakers/Audeze range as well.
  
 Just thinking it might be a little over the top for what I need haha.


----------



## iFi audio

kritikal said:


> Okay, I'm having something strange occuring which I've never experienced with any audio equipment in my life.
> So I hooked everything up and started listening. All was well for about 15 minutes, but I noticed (felt more than heard, and relatively painfully) the occasional energetic high frequency (just in (or perhaps just out of?) my hearing range (17.5kHz)). After a couple of times, I pulled my IEM's out and I immediately noticed a low frequency hum in my left ear. It seemed to dissipate completely with certain noises (the sound of something knocking on a wooden table, crack of my neck, humming) and even went away when I put my finger in my ear, only to come back immediately after. after about ten minutes it had almost subsided, so I did a few sine wave sweeps and noticed nothing out of the ordinary. But, I listened some more and of course, it happened again.
> 
> I want to experiment and find the cause, but I don't want to do any serious damage to my hearing. I'm using the iDSD with Onkyo HF player upsampling to 192kHz (could this be the app somehow causing an occasional spike?), minimum phase filter, X-Bass & 3D on, (and what I think is) a moderate to moderate-high volume, all running through to my S-EM6 IEM's.
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 What you are describing sounds like "tinnitus."
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus
  
 Be VERY careful. If you often listen quite loud you be experiencing damage to some of the hair cells in the ear.
  
 We are NOT medical professionals - but this is our best estimation from afar. Hence, we recommend that you should consult with your GP/doctor or audiologist.


----------



## KritiKal

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> What you are describing sounds like "tinnitus."
> 
> ...




Yeah, it was definitely acute low frequency tinnitus, but I was just trying to isolate the cause. My listening levels are quite low relative to most other people and I was listening at a quieter volume to my usual volume. Considering that my volume is not loud enough and my listening time not long enough to cause any practical long term hearing damage, one can deduce that something must have caused it during my initial listening session. Now, considering I was getting sporadic high energy, high frequency tones and nothing else seemed irregular, one can further assume that this was the cause of the tinnitus.
*With this in mind-although not particularly pertinent to the following question-what would have caused these high frequency tones?*

Apologies that I was not as precise as I should have been when asking this question, I did ask it in a convoluted manner so it was somewhat hidden in my post. I just described the effect for the sake of documentation, but I was looking for an answer to the cause.

It's ultimately redundant now anyway, as whatever it was seems to have disappeared. There's no longer a hum in my left ear and I haven't noticed any high tones that shouldn't be there after an hour listening session (Yes, I probably should have waited a few days). Still, for the sake of knowledge, it would be nice to find an answer.  I will be visiting an audiologist either way though, as a check up can't be anything but good.


----------



## john57

First we have to analyze the music you are listening to see how music high frequencies are being played or clipping.  How much noise you were exposed to during the day also plays a factor.  I would try a different IEM or use a headphone  to see if what you experiencing repeats. What you experiencing happens to me when exposed to constant noise during the day, like a manufacturing setting and my ears will fatigue at the end of the day and the low frequency hum usually means that the ear is tired in my case. The  energetic high frequency could have come from the music, signals that are clipping or from other causes. There is really not enough information on your setup and settings to make a determination in your case.  Always try to rest your ears  when they are humming or ringing. When you tried again without resting your ears the tinnitus can start again easy and you will be running a risk. The Onkyo application has power issues with some equipment and I would check more on the source side. Are you having the same issues when NOT upsampling to 192kHz which tends to be resource intensive on the player?


----------



## iFi audio

kritikal said:


> Still, for the sake of knowledge, it would be nice to find an answer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes, check with Audiologist/medical expert.
  
 Beyond what we have said, there is not much more we can add and you should see what medical professionals have to say.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

*For iCLUB members ONLY* - please open a new support ticket and ask your concierge for the v4.08 Beta firmware.

  
  
  
*BETA: v4.08 Firmware upgrade*   
*User Notes:*
This is the first unified version of firmware for nano iDSD, micro iDSD and Retro ONLY.
NOT to be uploaded to the micro iLink, micro iDAC, nor AMR DP-777!

  
*Improvements*
• Further improvement sfor DoP playback which exhibits clicks/pops during track changes
• Various optimisations regarding clock distribution.
• Various optimisations regarding muting circuitry.
• Improved compatibility with Mac OS X.
  
*Bug fixes*
• Fixed various small bugs.
  
  
 Note to others, once this has been confirmed as all a-okay, we will release this into the wild for everyone to enjoy.
  
 We thank you for your patience but as you can see, we do not issue firmware updates lightly because they need to undergo rigorous testing.


----------



## HedgeHog

So how does an owner get into the "iClub" or is it like the Illuminati? 
  
 -H
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> *For iCLUB members ONLY* - please open a new support ticket and ask your concierge for the v4.08 Beta firmware.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## KritiKal

john57 said:


> First we have to analyze the music you are listening to see how music high frequencies are being played or clipping.  How much noise you were exposed to during the day also plays a factor.  I would try a different IEM or use a headphone  to see if what you experiencing repeats. What you experiencing happens to me when exposed to constant noise during the day, like a manufacturing setting and my ears will fatigue at the end of the day and the low frequency hum usually means that the ear is tired in my case. The  energetic high frequency could have come from the music, signals that are clipping or from other causes. There is really not enough information on your setup and settings to make a determination in your case.  Always try to rest your ears  when they are humming or ringing. When you tried again without resting your ears the tinnitus can start again easy and you will be running a risk. The Onkyo application has power issues with some equipment and I would check more on the source side. Are you having the same issues when NOT upsampling to 192kHz which tends to be resource intensive on the player?




Very little noise actually, I had been home for 2 days as I had some time off work and uni and the loudest sound I was exposed to was the TV at an "ordinary" volume.
Unfortunately (well fortunately, really), it hasn't been repeatable. Upsampled or not, there hasn't been an issue again as of yet, although I only spent 15 minutes using my phone and the rest of the time was on PC.
However, I do have a hypothesis, especially after you mentioning power issues and perhaps it might help troubleshoot the issue (as audio electronics is not my field. I can generally get by just fine, but I'm no means an expert). My phone (GS4) has randomly been restarting itself today (4 times) and has previously done so in the past month (although I had put that down to pocket pressing at the time). My screen backlight has also been flickering. On occasion to begin with, and now quite frequently. I'm a stickler for RAM clearance, so from what I've read, it's potentially that something shorted when charging, or the battery is dying. Now, of this part I'm not certain, but it seems plausible (to me) that this could potentially have an effect on an audio signal. Unfortunately, I haven't found the precise issue, so I can't be more concise.
I'm probably just going to upgrade my phone though even if I do find the cause of the flickering, etc... as I'm more or less due for it.


----------



## KritiKal

http://ifi-audio.com/iclub/

_"Membership of the iClub is “by invitation only.” Future invitations will be sent out with our other major marketing campaigns."_

I was only just reading about it this afternoon.


----------



## john57

kritikal said:


> Very little noise actually, I had been home for 2 days as I had some time off work and uni and the loudest sound I was exposed to was the TV at an "ordinary" volume.
> Unfortunately (well fortunately, really), it hasn't been repeatable. Upsampled or not, there hasn't been an issue again as of yet, although I only spent 15 minutes using my phone and the rest of the time was on PC.
> However, I do have a hypothesis, especially after you mentioning power issues and perhaps it might help troubleshoot the issue (as audio electronics is not my field. I can generally get by just fine, but I'm no means an expert). My phone (GS4) has randomly been restarting itself today (4 times) and has previously done so in the past month (although I had put that down to pocket pressing at the time). My screen backlight has also been flickering. On occasion to begin with, and now quite frequently. I'm a stickler for RAM clearance, so from what I've read, it's potentially that something shorted when charging, or the battery is dying. Now, of this part I'm not certain, but it seems plausible (to me) that this could potentially have an effect on an audio signal. Unfortunately, I haven't found the precise issue, so I can't be more concise.
> I'm probably just going to upgrade my phone though even if I do find the cause of the flickering, etc... as I'm more or less due for it.


 
 I do not use the Onkyo HF player application.  However my research indicates that since using the Onkyo application is resource intensive it was recommended that the phone is to be put into "airplane" mode to make sure that there is enough power available to run the app when up-sampling to 192kHz. This is mentioned on a few web sites. Since you are having issues currently with your phone, my guess is one of the cells in the battery is dying or partly broken trace on the phone circuit board. It is kind of pointless to do more troubleshooting until you know that your phone is 100% working correctly.


----------



## john57

kritikal said:


> http://ifi-audio.com/iclub/
> 
> _"Membership of the iClub is “by invitation only.” Future invitations will be sent out with our other major marketing campaigns."_
> 
> I was only just reading about it this afternoon.


 
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/the-octa-adopter-512-units/


----------



## Seamaster

I have been using my micro for a while now, about 250 hours. Does anyone find it a little bright, tends to high light HF, and also a touch of cool sounding? Both headphone and DAC.


----------



## Sound Eq

i wish that they can change the sound signature a bit as sometimes i too find it sometimes bright, maybe the can change the sound signature through firmware updates

but i love the ifi and no complains

Ifi is changing the sound signature a possibiltiy through firmware updates or is that not posisble at all, and if yes, can you try to give a bit of change to make it a bit less bright


----------



## john57

seamaster said:


> I have been using my micro fro a while now, about 250 hours. Does anyone find it a little bright, tends to high hight HF, and also a touch of cool sounding? Both headphone and DAC.


 
 On my Retro I find that the new firmware to be a tiny bit more crisp all-round. The bass and the highs are clear and seems to be a bit more detailed. I like the new soft muting changes. Will try my micro next.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

My micro iDSD is broken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 during my today listen session, the music loudness level goes to an extrem (!) low value. Doesn't matter if I feed over USB, coax or analog, Eco, Normal and Turbo Mode zero difference, battery is fully loaded, tried multiple headphones and I compared to my mirco iCAN (which works fine). It worked since last year November perfect each day - now I'm sad... But I will send the micro iDSD to my iFi dealer, which I bought the iDSD.


----------



## Seamaster

h1f1add1cted said:


> My micro iDSD is broken
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think you should try to contact IFI audio fist, they are really responsive.


----------



## Seamaster

john57 said:


> On my Retro I find that the new firmware to be a tiny bit more crisp all-round. The bass and the highs are clear and seems to be a bit more detailed. I like the new soft muting changes. Will try my micro next.


 

 To me, just me, IFI is going to the wrong direction on sound signature then. I want more "music flow" instead HF and crispness.


----------



## knorris908

To my ears, Amp bright - But since most of my headphones are dark including the HD-650, it's fine for me.  The DAC to me just sounds neutral, and no brighter than my FIIO e17.  If anything it's less "sparkly" in the high end.
 
But yes, with my AKG 550s or 545s the top end can get to be a bit much if no EQ is applied to tame them.
in order for me:
 
JVC HA-SZ2000 - No need to adjust high-end brightness, just to bring up the mids as they are recessed with these headphones, but that has nothing to do with the iFi.
 
JVC HA-m55x - Same
 
Sennheiser HS650 - No adjustments needed at all.  A nice and even response top to bottom
 
Photive PH-BTX6 - No adjustments needed for most music, but may need to raise mids for jazz or folk music.
 
Sennheiser RS-180s - Has its own internal amp, so really DAC-only eval, and it sounds perfect with no need for EQ.  (What I largely base my DAC neutrality opinion from.)
 
Koss Porta-Pros - Don't normally use them with ANY EQ as they feel to "adjust" slightly depending on source and music to maintain a balanced presentation.  Might be psychological, but they have never needed any adjustment to my ears to sound smooth and even.
 
VMODA Bass-Freqs - Nothing to do here.  They are dark and syrupy, so the iFi just sounds "normal" on them.
 
AKG K550s - Top end can get screechy with certain tracks, so I drop th 16k & 10k values a bit.
 
AKG K545s - Same, but I only adjust the 10k & 6.3k.  The 16k makes no difference for some reason with the same tracks as listened to on the K550s in A/B comparisons.  (I bought them together to see which I'd prefer, but wound-up keeping both since the K545s travel so much better than the K550s.  They also double as my reference audio monitors when I'm shooting video, providing me with exactly what I'll hear in post-production.).
 
EDIT:  In fairness, I just recalled that I returned my Grado SR-225Es the moment I was sure that burn-in was far enough to get a fair idea of them.  (~150 continuous hours)  But that was also because they were incredibly uncomfortable for me.  I'd say 50/50 for shrill-ness then discomfort. Though I admit that they brought out incredible levels of detail.  I didn't own the AKGs at the time, but I am tempted to say that the Grados presented even more detail than the K550s do.  (Which says a lot from what I've heard.)


----------



## technobear

seamaster said:


> I have been using my micro for a while now, about 250 hours. Does anyone find it a little bright, tends to high light HF, and also a touch of cool sounding? Both headphone and DAC.




Which filter setting are you using?


----------



## knorris908

seamaster said:


> I think you should try to contact IFI audio fist, they are really responsive.


 
 Seconded.  I had mine serviced.  Owen & the crew at iFi were great.  Had an RMA prepped for me at the distributor that had the parts already, and I got my iFi back from the Georgia facility really quickly.


----------



## lucidreamer

knorris908 said:


> Seconded.  I had mine serviced.  Owen & the crew at iFi were great.  Had an RMA prepped for me at the distributor that had the parts already, and I got my iFi back from the Georgia facility really quickly.


 
  
 I bought mine used with all the packaging, etc. and still have 6 months warranty left. If something happens to it during this time, will the iFi support take care of it? I do not have a proof of purchase though, but the previous owner probably does.


----------



## Seamaster

technobear said:


> Which filter setting are you using?


 
  
 I am on Bit-perfect with Shure SE846 with blue filters.


----------



## knorris908

lucidreamer said:


> I bought mine used with all the packaging, etc. and still have 6 months warranty left. If something happens to it during this time, will the iFi support take care of it? I do not have a proof of purchase though, but the previous owner probably does.


 
 I can't comment on company policy, but they've always shown first-class customer service, so I'd say what do you lose by asking?


----------



## Marat Sar

Hi guys, looking into this for a pair of Hifiman he-560 planar headphones. Kind of sort of maybe heard someone mention it might sound good with them. The he-560 is proving to be a real pain to drive with a portable device and I'm running out of options. So two questions:
  
 1) Does anyone have any experience with the he-560 + iFi iDSD Micro DSD pairing?
  
 2) Can I use a Fiio x3 DAP as a source for this or is it just apple devices? (I've never really understood how a DAC/Amp pairing works, how it bypasses the DAC inside a player etc. I'm sorry for the supernoobness, btw)


----------



## earfonia

marat sar said:


> 2) Can I use a Fiio x3 DAP as a source for this or is it just apple devices? (I've never really understood how a DAC/Amp pairing works, how it bypasses the DAC inside a player etc. I'm sorry for the supernoobness, btw)


 
  
 You can use Fiio X3 DAP SPDIF Coaxial output to feed iDSD micro SPDIF coaxial input.


----------



## ClieOS

marat sar said:


> 2) Can I use a Fiio x3 DAP as a source for this or is it just apple devices? (I've never really understood how a DAC/Amp pairing works, how it bypasses the DAC inside a player etc. I'm sorry for the supernoobness, btw)


 
  
 Yes, X3 will work via its SPDIF output, which will bypass X3's internal DAC. However, you will need a different cable or an male-male adapter as the stock SPDIF cable that comes with X3 has a female plug (*same as iDSD).


----------



## h1f1add1cted

seamaster said:


> I think you should try to contact IFI audio fist, they are really responsive.


 

 No not in this case, it's a hardware issue. I know the iFi support is great, no question. But I want asap my iDSD back working, so I will send it for repair / replacment tomy local iFi dealer.


----------



## technobear

seamaster said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Which filter setting are you using?
> ...




Try the black filters.


----------



## jhwalker

seamaster said:


> I am on Bit-perfect with Shure SE846 with blue filters.


 

 Have you tried Minimum Phase and Standard filters, as well?  For PCM, Bit-Perfect can sound a bit too bright / spitty for some.  For DSD, Standard is the "best" choice (for me, at least).
  
 Just a thought . . .


----------



## Marat Sar

clieos said:


> Yes, X3 will work via its SPDIF output, which will bypass X3's internal DAC. However, you will need a different cable or an male-male adapter as the stock SPDIF cable that comes with X3 has a female plug (*same as iDSD).


 
  
 Thank you, I guess I'll hunt for it then.


----------



## knorris908

marat sar said:


> Thank you, I guess I'll hunt for it then.


 

 I had one made for my DX90 by Forza Audio Works.  Oddly-enough, I just got a replacement DX90 from iBASSO because of a faulty headphone jack, and they sent the exact coax to 3.5" cable I got from F.A.W. (Just not nearly as nice) back with the replacement unit.


----------



## ppolonen

marat sar said:


> 1) Does anyone have any experience with the he-560 + iFi iDSD Micro DSD pairing?




I've been using ifi idsd micro with HE-560 at home when I want to move around, or when I need portability. I really like the design and the sound. Ifi has strong base and warmish tones and a bit more relaxed sound signature compared to burson conductor. There is plenty of power to drive HE-560, no problems there. I also enjoy AT-3000anv with idsd, as a closed headphone setup at work, really happy with that. Conductor is superior in accuracy, soundstage and rhythm, so for more analytic experience I prefer conductor. I think idsd is a great option if you want warmish, darker sound signature to complement more neutral HE-560. idsd is not warm like a tube amp, but definitely tad warmer than neutral imo.


----------



## Marat Sar

knorris908 said:


> I had one made for my DX90 by Forza Audio Works.  Oddly-enough, I just got a replacement DX90 from iBASSO because of a faulty headphone jack, and they sent the exact coax to 3.5" cable I got from F.A.W. (Just not nearly as nice) back with the replacement unit.


 
  
 This hobby gets very frustrating when stuff is neither on Amazon or eBay and you are not american. Which is what is happening to me now, with this illusive cable. One almost thinks the people at iFi could have put that little thing in that big ole box themselves. As an... accessory!
  


ppolonen said:


> I've been using ifi idsd micro with HE-560 at home when I want to move around, or when I need portability. I really like the design and the sound. Ifi has strong base and warmish tones and a bit more relaxed sound signature compared to burson conductor. There is plenty of power to drive HE-560, no problems there. I also enjoy AT-3000anv with idsd, as a closed headphone setup at work, really happy with that. Conductor is superior in accuracy, soundstage and rhythm, so for more analytic experience I prefer conductor. I think idsd is a great option if you want warmish, darker sound signature to complement more neutral HE-560. idsd is not warm like a tube amp, but definitely tad warmer than neutral imo.


 
  
 But then again, that sounds very promising. 
  
 Oh head fi!


----------



## Triodemode

Seems iFi is finally adressing the iDSD micro's slightly dry and sterile headphone section by implementing class A into their new iDAC2 micro.  If only this had been done with the iDSD... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-covered-at-high-end-by-enjoythemusic-com/


----------



## Seamaster

triodemode said:


> Seems iFi is finally adressing the iDSD micro's slightly dry and sterile headphone section by implementing class A into their new iDAC2 micro.  If only this had been done with the iDSD...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Where did they say class A helps the sound?


----------



## diamondears

jhwalker said:


> Have you tried Minimum Phase and Standard filters, as well?  For PCM, Bit-Perfect can sound a bit too bright / spitty for some.  For DSD, Standard is the "best" choice (for me, at least).
> 
> Just a thought . . .



Depends on recording material, IME. For recordings with more sub-bass, the "enveloping" bass kind (vinyl kind of enveloping bass), bit-perfect is much better. The extra noise is overcome by the bass improvement. For recordings without this kind of bass/sub-bass, and has more digital-ness (loudness war recordings), minimum phase is better, I find. Try them.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

marat sar said:


> This hobby gets very frustrating when stuff is neither on Amazon or eBay and you are not american. Which is what is happening to me now, with this illusive cable. One almost thinks the people at iFi could have put that little thing in that big ole box themselves. As an... accessory!


 
  
 From where you are? I got a custom coax cable for FiiO X3/X5 and iBasso DX50/90 for 35 Euro.
  

  
 On top my custom cable on bottom the iBasso stock cable:


----------



## Triodemode

seamaster said:


> Where did they say class A helps the sound?


 

 It is well established that properly designed calss A amplification sounds more natural and musical...
  
 iCan Micro: Class A amp for a Class A guy!
 “Going back to the iCAN Micro. A lot of people will ask why one would even need the iCAN if you have already got iDSD Micro which has a very capable headphone output. After adding the iCAN Micro after iDSD Micro the sound becomes sweeter and warmer….I think it might have something to do with its Class A circuit. I am a Class A guy. My main stereo has a set of Pass Labs XA60.5 Class A mono amps, and i also use First Watt J2 Class A amp for my desktop system. To me a class A amp (well designed of course) just sounds more musical and more effortless. It brings you closer to the music. iCAN did exactly that. I also enjoyed the 3D and Xbass feature. For 90% of the time i listen at Xbass Mid setting and 3D Max setting. I really like iFi’s implementations with both as their effects are subtle….I am currently using this set as my office setup. I am completely satisfied and have no intention to make any change, nor do i think that i can do any better without spending significantly more money. I highly recommend this combo to anyone who is looking for a good and flexible desktop setup as well as with some portability.”
 Thanks Eric / Blankdisc!
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/reviews/ican-micro-class-a-amp-for-a-class-a-guy/


----------



## knorris908

triodemode said:


> It is well established that properly designed calss A amplification sounds more natural and musical...
> 
> iCan Micro: Class A amp for a Class A guy!
> “Going back to the iCAN Micro. A lot of people will ask why one would even need the iCAN if you have already got iDSD Micro which has a very capable headphone output. After adding the iCAN Micro after iDSD Micro the sound becomes sweeter and warmer….I think it might have something to do with its Class A circuit. I am a Class A guy. My main stereo has a set of Pass Labs XA60.5 Class A mono amps, and i also use First Watt J2 Class A amp for my desktop system. To me a class A amp (well designed of course) just sounds more musical and more effortless. It brings you closer to the music. iCAN did exactly that. I also enjoyed the 3D and Xbass feature. For 90% of the time i listen at Xbass Mid setting and 3D Max setting. I really like iFi’s implementations with both as their effects are subtle….I am currently using this set as my office setup. I am completely satisfied and have no intention to make any change, nor do i think that i can do any better without spending significantly more money. I highly recommend this combo to anyone who is looking for a good and flexible desktop setup as well as with some portability.”
> ...




Well, I won't intrude in this debate as I failed the TIDAL HD music evaluation test repeatedly. But I am hoping to get an iCan in sometime in the near-future so that I can A/B the iDSD Micro with/without the iCan, and present any differences I hear. It just figures that a new iDAC2 is on the horizon! If I hadn't bought a house last year, I would have picked-up an iDAC for myself for Christmas before-last, and been witness to any improvements. Now I just have to hope that the new one will come out quickly-enough that I can do a 7-way eval. (iBasso DX90, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPad Air, Samsung P2, Sony Walkman, & Fooobar/Jmusic Center(PC-Direct) sources into iDSD Micro alone, with FIIO e17, with iCan, with new iDAC 2, and finally with Schiit Audio's ASGARD 2 amplifier. It'll be a large matrix with all those permutations, but hey, it's a hobby. Why not? 

CORRECTIONS: I had typed iCan 2 by mistake instead of iDAC 2. Fixed.


----------



## Triodemode

knorris908 said:


> Well, I won't intrude in this debate as I failed the TIDAL HD music evaluation test repeatedly. But I am hoping to get an iCan in sometime in the near-future so that I can A/B the iDSD Micro with/without the iCan, and present any differences I hear. It just figures that a new iDAC2 is on the horizon! If I hadn't bought a house last year, I would have picked-up an iDAC for myself for Christmas before-last, and been witness to any improvements. Now I just have to hope that the new one will come out quickly-enough that I can do a 7-way eval. (iBasso DX90, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPad Air, Samsung P2, Sony Walkman, & Fooobar/Jmusic Center(PC-Direct) sources into iDSD Micro alone, with FIIO e17, with iCan, with new iDAC 2, and finally with Schiit Audio's ASGARD 2 amplifier. It'll be a large matrix with all those permutations, but hey, it's a hobby. Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It doesn't take golden ears to hear the difference class A delivers knorris so I suspect you will also.  I'll likely be picking up the new iDAC2 as long as it offers a fixed RCA output option and it's DAC sounds as good as the one inside the iDSD micro.


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> Seems iFi is finally adressing the iDSD micro's slightly dry and sterile headphone section by implementing class A into their new iDAC2 micro.  If only this had been done with the iDSD...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Please allow us to share some tech notes and insights from our show experience.
  
  
*iDAC2 micro* - Class A (for line out RCAs only).
  
*iDSD micro* - some say it's too warm, others it's too sterile compared to Tube Amp's. It is probably about just right to count as neutral (for government work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 When we exhibit at shows, the feedback is pretty much 'Goldilocks' so we think the way we have our demo gear setup is just about spot on with Audio Technica MRS-7 through to the Audeze LCD-X, it is 'enjoyable and fun' and people don't usually do a 10-second listen and change tracks (which to us is always the litmus test that the human brain likes what it is hearing).
  
 (Incidentally, we use AN+ and JRMC and always setup as Bit-Perfect for PCM and DSD files)
  
 A few customers who have listened to our show rigs are Technobear, Turrican and TF1219 have heard our UK/USA setups at shows and know what kind of sound 'floats our boat.' Not too warm and not too detailed. We like to think of it is 'Goldilocks' or 'just right' (or thereabouts) at least for these 3 bears!
  
  
  
 Some manufacturers call the Headphone Amp chip used in the iDSD micro "Class A" even if the chip manufacturers datasheet makes it clear it is Class AB.
  
 Incidentally, it is the same HP Amplifier as in the iCAN micro, where it runs at extra Class A current, something which is just not possible Battery/USB powered. So despite the sonic differences, they are close but not the same. We too demo the desktop 'Big Rig' with the iCAN micro always. We also use the iTube (some GE5670 news coming soon) as we just exihibied at Munich and we showed both the all out 'Big Rig' desktop and all portable (micro iDSD standalone).
  
 So the micro iDSD from a technical point of view, because it uses battery operation, just cannot perform 'Class A.'  So there will be no change to the micro iDSD because it simply cannot be anything otherwise.
  
  
 Just for a bit of fun, can anyone guess what this Auralis (Euro50k) + Karma (Euro90k speakers) setup has to do with iFi?
  

  

  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



You cannot spot the DAC because it is not in the picture. This Euro+150k monster system at the Munich High-End Show quietly demo'd with the micro iDSD as DAC feeding this system. It is hidden behind the MacBook Pro one the right-hand side of the room towards the bottom-right of the top picture.


  
 Cheers.


----------



## Staxton

ifi audio said:


> Some manufacturers call the Headphone Amp chip used in the iDSD micro "Class A" even if the chip manufacturers datasheet makes it clear it is Class AB.
> 
> Incidentally, it is the same HP Amplifier as in the iCAN micro, where it runs at extra Class A current, something which is just not possible Battery/USB powered. So despite the sonic differences, they are close but not the same.


 
 I am a great fan of the iDSD micro and have been using it with a wide variety of front ends to provide the perfect semi-portable headphone rig that suits my purposes. One of the main reasons I chose the iDSD micro was that its amp section was powerful enough to drive Sennheiser HD800s, while at the same time having the ability to play every sound file imaginable and have great connectivity options. Since I use my rig mostly out of the house, it was important that it be as small as possible, while at the same time have enough power and flexibility to meet my needs. 
  
 One of the few concerns I had about the iDSD (based on some comments in this forum) is that some preferred the iDSD played through a dedicated headphone amp, such as the iCAN micro. (Of course, others said they did not think a separate amp was necessary). 
  
 Lately, I see that LH Labs claims that its battery-powered Geek Out V2+ has "Class A" Amplifier Output Bias. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-out-v2-portable-headphone-amplifier#/story. This, and a balanced output, were the only factors that made me consider the V2+ as possible competition to the iDSD in this price range.
  
 Now, I know virtually nothing about the technology of headphone amplifiers, and I certainly don't want to even speculate as to whether or not the V2+ (Class A or whatever its Amp actually is) will actually sound better than the iDSD Micro, but I am curious as to whether and how LH Labs is in fact able to get sufficient Class A current from battery power. Or is their Class A something different?
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## Triodemode

Quote:Originally Posted by *iFi audio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
  
  
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Please allow us to share some tech notes and insights from our show experience.
  
  
*iDAC2 micro* - Class A (for line out RCAs only).
  
*iDSD micro* - some say it's too warm, others it's too sterile compared to Tube Amp's. It is probably about just right to count as neutral (for government work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 When we exhibit at shows, the feedback is pretty much 'Goldilocks' so we think the way we have our demo gear setup is just about spot on with Audio Technica MRS-7 through to the Audeze LCD-X, it is 'enjoyable and fun' and people don't usually do a 10-second listen and change tracks (which to us is always the litmus test that the human brain likes what it is hearing).
  
 (Incidentally, we use AN+ and JRMC and always setup as Bit-Perfect for PCM and DSD files)
  
 A few customers who have listened to our show rigs are Technobear, Turrican and TF1219 have heard our UK/USA setups at shows and know what kind of sound 'floats our boat.' Not too warm and not too detailed. We like to think of it is 'Goldilocks' or 'just right' (or thereabouts) at least for these 3 bears!
  
  
  
 Some manufacturers call the Headphone Amp chip used in the iDSD micro "Class A" even if the chip manufacturers datasheet makes it clear it is Class AB.
  
 Incidentally, it is the same HP Amplifier as in the iCAN micro, where it runs at extra Class A current, something which is just not possible Battery/USB powered. So despite the sonic differences, they are close but not the same. We too demo the desktop 'Big Rig' with the iCAN micro always. We also use the iTube (some GE5670 news coming soon) as we just exihibied at Munich and we showed both the all out 'Big Rig' desktop and all portable (micro iDSD standalone).
  
 So the micro iDSD from a technical point of view, because it uses battery operation, just cannot perform 'Class A.'  So there will be no change to the micro iDSD because it simply cannot be anything otherwise.
  
  
 Just for a bit of fun, can anyone guess what this Auralis (Euro50k) + Karma (Euro90k speakers) setup has to do with iFi?
  

  

  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



You cannot spot the DAC because it is not in the picture. This Euro+150k monster system at the Munich High-End Show quietly demo'd with the micro iDSD as DAC feeding this system. It is hidden behind the MacBook Pro one the right-hand side of the room towards the bottom-right of the top picture.


  
 Cheers.
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please allow us to share some tech notes and insights from our show experience.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post...  I wish the person stating Class A operation on the new iDAC2 wiuld have specified that if was only on the RCA outputs.  As you can tell I am a big fan of all things Class A and now I understand how you have implemented the TPA6120A2 In the iCAN. 
  
 I am curious, does the RCA line out when set set to fixed on the iDSD micro run class A similar to how the new iDAC2 operates?  Also does the headphone amplifier in the iDAC2 utilize similar components and circuit topology as those in the iDSD, and does it utilize the same 1793DSD DAC chip as well?


----------



## Bwaze

From the iFi web page:
  
 Quote:


> Class A on RCA/Headphones all the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## iFi audio

bwaze said:


>


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Nice spot as the webpage is not live yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 We're waiting on the webmaster to come back from the bank holiday break.


----------



## Bwaze

Ah, I apologize, Google found it and I didn't even check if it's already published or not.
  
 Would the iDAC2 be preferable to iDSD Micro or Nano for use in a desktop system: computer's USB3 > iDSD2 > integrated amplifier > speakers or rec out to Bottlehead Crack amplifier > Beyerdynamic T1?

 I will not use the DAC on the go, so I'm not interested in battery power. I know the iDSD uses 2 DAC chips, supports higher formats (which I don't intend to use for quite some time) and battery only power should be cleaner than USB one... But is the difference in sound quality high enough to justify the price difference?


----------



## gr8soundz

ifi audio said:


> *We also use the iTube (some GE5670 news coming soon) *as we just exihibied at Munich and we showed both the all out 'Big Rig' desktop and all portable (micro iDSD standalone).


 
  
 Details please..............


----------



## Triodemode

> Class A on RCA/Headphones all the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is the iDAC2 a battery powered unit that gets it's charge from USB similar to the iDSD micro also?  And if so, I thought iFi indicated they would not implement Class A into a battery powered device?


----------



## Emerpus

triodemode said:


> Is the iDAC2 a battery powered unit that gets it's charge from USB similar to the iDSD micro also?  And if so, I thought iFi indicated they would not implement Class A into a battery powered device?


 
  
 I believed iFi mentioned that iDAC2 has no built-in battery. Can't recall if it's USB powered or via wall-walt.


----------



## ClieOS

triodemode said:


> Is the iDAC2 a battery powered unit that gets it's charge from USB similar to the iDSD micro also?  And if so, I thought iFi indicated they would not implement Class A into a battery powered device?


 
  
   
Like the original iDAC, iDAC2 is fully USB powered, not meant to be portable at all.


----------



## leafs

ppolonen said:


> I've been using ifi idsd micro with HE-560 at home when I want to move around, or when I need portability. I really like the design and the sound. Ifi has strong base and warmish tones and a bit more relaxed sound signature compared to burson conductor. There is plenty of power to drive HE-560, no problems there. I also enjoy AT-3000anv with idsd, as a closed headphone setup at work, really happy with that. Conductor is superior in accuracy, soundstage and rhythm, so for more analytic experience I prefer conductor. I think idsd is a great option if you want warmish, darker sound signature to complement more neutral HE-560. idsd is not warm like a tube amp, but definitely tad warmer than neutral imo.


 

 Hi there,
  
 I notice you use Burson Conductor. I wonder have you tried using iDSD as DAC for Conductor and what is your opinion. I'm using Soloist and deciding iDSD to replace my ODAC. I also waiting for the review of iDAC2 before making further decision.
  
 Thanks in advance. Cheers


----------



## ppolonen

leafs said:


> I wonder have you tried using iDSD as DAC for Conductor and what is your opinion




Matter of fact I did quite extensive testing between conductor dac, idsd, musical fidelity VDAC II and audiolab MDAC. I used 24-96 files (black messiah-d'angelo and fleetwood mac) to do the test and used conductor amp for each dac. I could do on the fly switch between dac, using multi output from my Mac. Main finding was that the differences are subtle, but recognizable. I actually preferred conductor dac to idsd and MDAC. mdac was really close to conductor dac and filters are a nice bonus. I appreciated good resolution and rhythm of the conductor. Conductor good performance could be a synergy thing, I should test with other amp also. Surprising result was that idsd dac volume was lower, any idea why is that? This can bias the result a bit when changing dac, louder sounds generally better. Idsd outperformed VDAC, which was not that impressive compared to others.

I could easily recommend idsd, MDAC and conductor with soloist, I don't think you would be disappointed as differences between them are subtle. I should also test with other high res files with idsd in the future.


----------



## iFi audio

bwaze said:


> Ah, I apologize, Google found it and I didn't even check if it's already published or not.
> 
> Would the iDAC2 be preferable to iDSD Micro or Nano for use in a desktop system: computer's USB3 > iDSD2 > integrated amplifier > speakers or rec out to Bottlehead Crack amplifier > Beyerdynamic T1?
> 
> I will not use the DAC on the go, so I'm not interested in battery power. I know the iDSD uses 2 DAC chips, supports higher formats (which I don't intend to use for quite some time) and battery only power should be cleaner than USB one... But is the difference in sound quality high enough to justify the price difference?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Hey, no apology needed. Nice catch. The iDAC2 webpage needs to be ready to go for mid-June when it is launched.
  
 For a desktop system, given you have no need whatsoever for a portable system, then the iDAC2 is the better way to go.
  
  
  
 Think of it as:
  
*micro iDSD* = BMW X5 SUV (Costs £££££): can do anything, go anywhere. Yet carries 7 people and a load of shopping.
  
*micro iDAC2* = BMW 530D (Costs £££): saloon, plenty of space for 5 people, motorway cruiser all day long.
  
  
 So if you say I sit on the motorway all day long or in this case, dont leave the house, then we recommend the iDAC2 as it is best suited to your requirements.
  
 We'll update the iDAC2 thread in the next day or so with more technical information. But below is a little tech info.
  
  
Technical Info
 Where the iDSD micro was targeted (and primarily crowd-designed here on Head-Fi) as portable and headphone centric product, the iDAC2 is targeted as stationary use.
  
 The iDAC2's line out quality matches the iDSD micro, but due to the Class A buffer it offers better compatibility with difficult cables or low impedance loads (it can drive 600 Ohm pro-audio loads without problems).
  
  
  
 Cetris paribus, in terms of ultimate SQ, there is not much between them. Same will say iDAC2 is better, some will say micro iDSD is better....but for a pure desktop rig, just like at Munich, we did iDAC2, iTUBE + iCAN.
  
 But we also had micro iDSD available for instant demo and people brought their own IEMs and plugged in their phone.


----------



## Androb

Jumping off the convo you guys having as I got a bit of an issue (maybe?)
  
 When I listen to the headphone out on the idsd micro, it sounds good until I crank up the volume to like 3/4th. Then the sound starts to crack and sound awful. I am recharging it now in case the battery is starting to run low. But even if battery is low should the sound become like this?


----------



## Brooko

@iFi audio
  
 I was a winner in the competition earlier this year - I have the Micro iDSD - and love it.  But essentially I'm looking for a desktop solution as well - mainly headphones, but also needs to be able to drive my Celestion F10 passive monitors:
  

Amplifier requirements 70W
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 88dB
Impedance 8Ω 
  
 I currently use an NFB-12 which works well - and now I'm looking for the most effective way of either using the iDSD as central point in an iFi desktop system, or am I better looking at an alternative?  I've heard your iTube and really enjoyed that too.  I'd like to keep the F10's, but slowly realising I may have no choice but to sell them and buy some decent actives.
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## leafs

ppolonen said:


> Matter of fact I did quite extensive testing between conductor dac, idsd, musical fidelity VDAC II and audiolab MDAC. I used 24-96 files (black messiah-d'angelo and fleetwood mac) to do the test and used conductor amp for each dac. I could do on the fly switch between dac, using multi output from my Mac. Main finding was that the differences are subtle, but recognizable. I actually preferred conductor dac to idsd and MDAC. mdac was really close to conductor dac and filters are a nice bonus. I appreciated good resolution and rhythm of the conductor. Conductor good performance could be a synergy thing, I should test with other amp also. Surprising result was that idsd dac volume was lower, any idea why is that? This can bias the result a bit when changing dac, louder sounds generally better. Idsd outperformed VDAC, which was not that impressive compared to others.
> 
> I could easily recommend idsd, MDAC and conductor with soloist, I don't think you would be disappointed as differences between them are subtle. I should also test with other high res files with idsd in the future.


 

 Thanks for your sharing. It helps. Sorry but I am not sure why iDSD dac volume was lower. I will keep this question in mind.
  
 I think I can find a used MDAC. Though it doesn't allow 192 via usb, it provides XLR for balanced amp in which I can use for Liquid Carbon. I will too check out both iDSD and iDAC2 from my local dealer. 
  
 Thanks once again.


----------



## iFi audio

androb said:


> Jumping off the convo you guys having as I got a bit of an issue (maybe?)
> 
> When I listen to the headphone out on the idsd micro, it sounds good until I crank up the volume to like 3/4th. Then the sound starts to crack and sound awful. I am recharging it now in case the battery is starting to run low. But even if battery is low should the sound become like this?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Short answer - yes. When the battery is close to flat, all battery-powered devices will distort.
  
 Open a support ticket and the guys there will look through your setup and try to diagnose.
  
 And please fully-charge the micro iDSD as certain like settings Turbo drain the battery faster than others.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Androb

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Short answer - yes. When the battery is close to flat, all battery-powered devices will distort.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, i'll have a listen tonight and see


----------



## iFi audio

androb said:


> Thanks, i'll have a listen tonight and see


 
  
 Also,
  
 The volume control is in the analogue domain and there is a small amount of extra gain. Depending on precise power setings, headphone load, iEMatch etc. it is possible to 'overdrive' the Amplifier. In this case simply reduce volume.
  
 If you have iEMatch on and don't get enough volume, reduce or turn off the iEMatch setting. Note iEMatch is only meant for use in normal mode, if even normal mode produces too much gain (which it does for many IEM).
  
 If you do not get enough Volume and iEMatch is not enabled, use the next higher power setting.
  
 If you are on Turbo mode already and you still have to turn the Volume up past 3/4 etc, you use AKG K-1000 (to our best knowledge no other headphones need so much output from the Amp, not even HE-6 or Abyss) you are likely to be overloading the Amplifier (for what it's worth, AKG K-1000 are only suited to civilised listening levels and no higher).


----------



## iFi audio

brooko said:


> @iFi audio
> 
> I was a winner in the competition earlier this year - I have the Micro iDSD - and love it.  But essentially I'm looking for a desktop solution as well - mainly headphones, but also needs to be able to drive my Celestion F10 passive monitors:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 The NFB looks like a pretty nice piece of Kit. But it does not look like it can drive speakers? How do you drive them at the moment?
  
 The iDSD micro can be used in "Preamp Mode" but we would probably be the first to agree that it would be better with an iTUBE, but for starters the iDSD micro will certainly do the job of the NFB-12, if as good, you decide..
  
 To keep your speakers you need some form of power amplifier. Maybe look for a nice used unit from the 90's Japanese manufacturer, 50 - 100W per channel?
  
 A totally different angle might be to try the Retro Stereo 50, but looking at the Celestion Speakers, nice as they may be, you might enjoy the Retro LS-3.5 even more, they really complete the system. And as others have commented, the Retro also makes a swell Headphone Amp.
  
 Really depends which way you wish to go. Try both and see what you think. We think you are in touch with iFi New Zealand? Feedback Audio.


----------



## Music Path

Got the iDSD finally and with my first imprensions, i do have to agree that its slightly bright sounding, but very detailed and strong. If you want it make a little warmer you might try with ifi s audio driver, set it to 192k hz 32 bit + 300hz 3db bass boost + extra bass on + 3d off + negative polaristation. It indeed made it warmer but without compromising mutch detai. But still i'm considering the ican, which is told to be warmer. 
Though since the Idac 2 is out, will be there an ican2 soon?


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Got the iDSD finally and with my first imprensions, i do have to agree that its slightly bright sounding, but very detailed and strong. If you want it make a little warmer you might try with ifi s audio driver, set it to 192k hz 32 bit + 300hz 3db bass boost + extra bass on + 3d off + negative polaristation. It indeed made it warmer but without compromising mutch detai. But still i'm considering the ican, which is told to be warmer.
> Though since the Idac 2 is out, will be there an ican2 soon?




I've been listening a bit now amd with the 3D turned off, I don't find it bright at all, in fact I find it somewhat dark. With the 3D on though, I find it _perceptibly_ bright, but I can't be certain yet if that's due to the crossfeed, etc..., an actual increase in treble, or both. Either way, it feels natural after a short session and something I adapted to relatively quickly.

I do find it a little warm either way though, something I'm still getting used to as it seems to be hampering vocal clarity at the moment.


----------



## Brooko

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The NFB looks like a pretty nice piece of Kit. But it does not look like it can drive speakers? How do you drive them at the moment?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback.  Yes - I've also been conversing with Chris.  He's been fantastic.  I touched base with you in case you had any other ideas.  The NFB-12 on high gain is actually reasonably capable of putting enough current into the Celestions in a desktop/nearfield situation.  But I was hoping for an integrated solution with the iFi products (with the iDSD Micro as the central point).  I also tried the iTube - however, neither has the same level of power that the NFB-12 has.
  
 The goal has been to have a much smaller desktop footprint - which is why the iFi combos are so appealing.  It's looking more and more that I'll have to sell the passives and switch to actives. Then I can go iDSD + iTube, and probably add an iUSB to the mix as it will be largely desktop use.
  
 The Retro looks like an amazing unit - but both cost, and overall footprint are a little more than I was considering.
  
 I'm pretty sure I know what I need to do now - so first order of the day will be getting the right active speakers.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> I've been listening a bit now amd with the 3D turned off, I don't find it bright at all, in fact I find it somewhat dark. With the 3D on though, I find it _perceptibly_ bright, but I can't be certain yet if that's due to the crossfeed, etc..., an actual increase in treble, or both. Either way, it feels natural after a short session and something I adapted to relatively quickly.
> 
> I do find it a little warm either way though, something I'm still getting used to as it seems to be hampering vocal clarity at the moment.


 
 Now that i listen to it a bit more, i found out that with iem sensetivity on, it gets warm. But 192k hz or further plus bitperfect helps in all modes. But the overal sound is neutral as you sad.


----------



## KritiKal

ifi audio said:


> ...it is 'enjoyable and fun' and people don't usually do a 10-second listen and change tracks (which to us is always the litmus test that the human brain likes what it is hearing).




I had quite an amusing experience along these lines this evening. I was setting up tracks for burn in (still not sure on SS burn in, but I moved it to my laptop for reduced power consumption and figured there was no real harm in trying it out) and as I was flicking through tracks to add to the playlist, I came across some of my girlfriend's old downloads from a few years back. Particularly, I came across some songs for her nephew, by "The Wiggles". So, just for the fun of it, I put on "Toot Toot, Chugga Chugga, Big Red Car". Apart from strongly falling victim to the loudness wars, it is a good recording, and I found myself listening to the song in its entirety, all the while (admittedly) bopping my head along! Now, that's a big deal for me, as I despise The Wiggles!

If every listening session improves with experiences like this, and as I become accustomed to the sound signature-albeit while listening to better music -I'll be very happy indeed.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Now that i listen to it a bit more, i found out that with iem sensetivity on, it gets warm. But 192k hz or further plus bitperfect helps in all modes. But the overal sound is neutral as you sad.




I've been using the Bit Perfect filter too as it seems to cool the treble down a little with the 3D switched on. I don't think I'll ever use it without the 3D, but if I did, I'd use the standard filter.

It's taken me a little while to pin down the sound too. I've only had mine for a week though, so I may change my mind, as you might too.  Who thought a ~neutral signature would contain so much complexity!


----------



## lucidreamer

I do not find iDSD Micro to be bright at all. It is just perfect. To make it sound 'darker' in PCM mode - just flip the filter from 'standard' to 'bitperfect' mode and it will roll off some HF. Or when I convert my lossy files to DSD in Foobar it makes them sound a little softer and smoother too. But I recently prefer to listen to all my music in its native mode and stands, no conversion, no up/down sampling. To my ears any conversion/processing makes the music more artificial and less dynamic, even though it keeps the same level or details and resolution, just not the same as the original.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> I've been using the Bit Perfect filter too as it seems to cool the treble down a little with the 3D switched on. I don't think I'll ever use it without the 3D, but if I did, I'd use the standard filter.
> 
> It's taken me a little while to pin down the sound too. I've only had mine for a week though, so I may change my mind, as you might too.
> 
> ...


 
  


lucidreamer said:


> I do not find iDSD Micro to be bright at all. It is just perfect. To make it sound 'darker' in PCM mode - just flip the filter from 'standard' to 'bitperfect' mode and it will roll off some HF. Or when I convert my lossy files to DSD in Foobar it makes them sound a little softer and smoother too. But I recently prefer to listen to all my music in its native mode and stands, no conversion, no up/down sampling. To my ears any conversion/processing makes the music more artificial and less dynamic, even though it keeps the same level or details and resolution, just not the same as the original.


 
 Yeah, i agree, my first impact was that it sounded bright, but i was coming from the warm fiio e12 though. I think i wasn´t used to so much detail.
 xD
 But i know i m a bit treble sensitive. I like bitperfect with 3d off, it makes the sound really strong, which i like, because i listen to house/electronic mainly. But i agree with lucidreamer, indeed the sound of bitperfect is not natural, standard sounds more musical even being slightly brighter, but it depends on largly on the source of course. 

 But in the end, iDSD is very complex and adaptive, it can make several headphones sound quite better, from cheaper to more expensive.
 So for new users like me (got it today), it can be confusing at begining. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

 I´m usIng the negative polarity filter and indeed its sounds very good for me, better then the positive one. Even though i don´t kknow what it is in terms of sound lol


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Yeah, i agree, my first impact was that it sounded bright, but i was coming from the warm fiio e12 though. I think i wasn´t used to so much detail.
> 
> xD
> 
> ...




Think of it as listening to a mirror image of your music, it essentially inverts the signal. Some recordings have reversed polarity, sometimes through the entire disc, and sometimes far less. You can reverse the polarity on a recording by connecting the mic's +to- and -to+ but it can happen anywhere down the line, even at your headphones (if the cable is connected the wrong way around on both sides). So, maybe some of your music has been inverted at some point, so reversing the polarity may help (not everyone can hear the difference). If it sounds better that way, keep it that way, but for most (including myself) keeping it switched to positive (default) is arguably better.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Think of it as listening to a mirror image of your music, it essentially inverts the signal. Some recordings have reversed polarity, sometimes through the entire disc, and sometimes far less. You can reverse the polarity on a recording by connecting the mic's +to- and -to+ but it can happen anywhere down the line, even at your headphones (if the cable is connected the wrong way around on both sides). So, maybe some of your music has been inverted at some point, so reversing the polarity may help (not everyone can hear the difference). If it sounds better that way, keep it that way, but for most (including myself) keeping it switched to positive (default) is arguably better.


 
 Well its a minor difference though. I sometimes i end switching sometimes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Negative a little bit more laid back sometimes, positive more in front sometimes, what i noticed so far.


----------



## technobear

brooko said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...




What you need is a TopPing TP20 mkII 

Small, neat, cute, sounds amazing, costs beans... perfect desktop amp 

(Seriously... prepare to be amazed... I love mine)


----------



## Sound Eq

hello everyone i was wondering why i can not hear any sound when i connect my fiio x3 2nd gen to ifi micro dsd, and i set the line out to coaxial in fiio x3
  
  
 i am using the cable above where i connect the 3.5mm to fiio and the other to the spidf of ifi
  
 is there a buttom or a setting i should choose to be able to hear sound from the headphone out of the ifi


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> hello everyone i was wondering why i can not hear any sound when i connect my fiio x3 2nd gen to ifi micro dsd, and i set the line out to coaxial in fiio x3
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Disconnect the USB cable on the iDSD.


----------



## DGG32

Hi, how does the idsd micro compare to daps like the x5, dx90 or even the ak100ii in terms of sound quality? I currently own a x3 2nd gen and i'm wondering if the idsd micro would provide an upgrade sq wise while still being somewhat portable.


----------



## knorris908

dgg32 said:


> Hi, how does the idsd micro compare to daps like the x5, dx90 or even the ak100ii in terms of sound quality? I currently own a x3 2nd gen and i'm wondering if the idsd micro would provide an upgrade sq wise while still being somewhat portable.


 
 I can only speak for my opinion on my iDSD Micro with my DX90, unfortunately.
  
 To me, the DX90 has a very detailed, and evenly-balanced "sound"  I don't know what is because of DAC vs AMP, so I'll just say "sound".  In truth, for any of my headphones except the Sennheiser HD-650, it puts out a full, neutral, (slightly erring on the side of "warm") crisp and detailed presentation.  It's not harsh at all in the highs, (even my AKG K550 is not harsh which can happen quite easily.) the mids are chock full of detail, but still musical rather than analytical, and the bass is even down to the sub-bass with no obvious mid or sub-bass "bump".
  
 In terms of power, my DX90 is comfortably more powerful than any consumer-level MP3 player I've owned, and on-par with my FIIO e17 DAC/AMP, with the FIIO juuust edging the DX90's amp out for the win.  The DAC in the DX90 is clearly superior to the FIIO e17 to my ears though.
  
 The iFi iDSD offers a wider soundstage, (Without the "3D" turned on.) TONS more power, more overhead, (They are not the same.) and a more analytic quality which I enjoy because if I WANT to actively listen, I can simply plug-up the K550s or K545s, but if I want to relax and lose myself in passive enjoyment, I can plug-up the HD-650s and just enjoy!  Oh, and if I decide to go BASSHEAD, the DX90 can't approach the same galaxy as the iFi iDSD Micro.  It ACTUALLY can make my HA-SZ2000s "jump" on my head without raising the volume to intolerable levels!  In short, the iDSD Micro in TURBO mode is not that much less powerful off battery power than my ASGARD 2 is powered off mains power.
  
 Note:  Aside from BASSHEAD mode, all the examples above are assuming NO EQ was applied.  Just straight from device sound quality.
  
 I hope this helps!  Sorry that I can't comment on the FIIO or AK players.
  
 Ken N.


----------



## DGG32

Thank you so much for providing that helpful insight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The idsd seems to make more sense to me personally over a similarly priced dap as it provides a more complete package for both sensitive iems that i can use on the go while still being able to comfortably handle full sized cans like the hd800 and th900 which i plan to get in the future.


----------



## pekoslavic

I am sorry to say this, but in terms of audio quality this product is totally overrated. A big disappointment and a reminder to the community - is anyone listening out there at all these days by any chance? Or are we only into numbers ... Wake up!


----------



## iancraig10

dgg32 said:


> Thank you so much for providing that helpful insight  . The idsd seems to make more sense to me personally over a similarly priced dap as it provides a more complete package for both sensitive iems that i can use on the go while still being able to comfortably handle full sized cans like the hd800 and th900 which i plan to get in the future.




It is a really versatile amp imo. So many options to attach to the source in different ways and such a wide variation of output power in order to suit any headphone. I even connect mine digitally to the tv sometimes and use optical in.

The 3d effect is hit and miss for me. Sometimes it seems to work really well and at other times, I just prefer straight amp. The bass boost is very subtle too. With some headphones, it's difficult to know whether it's on or off.

It's powerful beast though and I find that I instinctively want to use it more and more.


----------



## maricius

pekoslavic said:


> I am sorry to say this, but in terms of audio quality this product is totally overrated. A big disappointment and a reminder to the community - is anyone listening out there at all these days by any chance? Or are we only into numbers ... Wake up!


 

 I'd really have to disagree. If it's such a bad value, then the DX90, AK120, CLAS -dB, and DACport LX are even worse. I loved my DACport. ;-( Oh and I don't really get the numbers issue… I mean they market the DSD512 and Octaetcetera and the Turbo whatever but I just use Normal with IEMatch on "Off" at most on BitPerfect with 16/44.1kHz files. 
  
  


dgg32 said:


> Hi, how does the idsd micro compare to daps like the x5, dx90 or even the ak100ii in terms of sound quality? I currently own a x3 2nd gen and i'm wondering if the idsd micro would provide an upgrade sq wise while still being somewhat portable.


 

 It's a huge step up compared to my DX90 in terms of dimensionality. The sound is smoother, warmer, and better textured. The soundstage is wider but it's noticeably deeper as if forming an ensemble in front of you whereas the DX90 is more forward and somewhat 2 dimensional sounding. That being said, the DX90 is colder and clearer sounding. Not cleaner but clearer. "Digital" relative to the iDSD as some would say. It sounds good with some headphones but with most, I prefer the iDSD.


----------



## boxinghris

pekoslavic said:


> I am sorry to say this, but in terms of audio quality this product is totally overrated. A big disappointment and a reminder to the community - is anyone listening out there at all these days by any chance? Or are we only into numbers ... Wake up!


 
 Hello fellow head fi guy. Just the fact m’am.
  
 You haven’t asked any questions before
 Just joined today and this is your first post.
 Don’t list your system so we don’t know your context
  
 And you say you are the only person who can hear and all other head fi users - some of whom have been on here for years and have gone through lots of kit - are deaf.
  
 May I be the first to thank you for enlightening us all, cheers buddy!


----------



## Sound Eq

i do not know somehow i am starting to perceive the ifi micro dsd to be harsh, i am really not knowing why i am starting to have a change of heart to the sound signature.
  
 honestly it needs more bass and less brightness, with metal music the ifi dsd does not do well in my books anymore.


----------



## iancraig10

I find that it really depends what kind of mix I'm listening to. I sometimes find that the 3d effect can add treble so I switch it out. 

It can be a bit glassy with my th900 but never with Senn hd650.

Good digital files seem to sound quite round though. Crappy low bit rate mp3 can sound edgy


----------



## knorris908

pekoslavic said:


> I am sorry to say this, but in terms of audio quality this product is totally overrated. A big disappointment and a reminder to the community - is anyone listening out there at all these days by any chance? Or are we only into numbers ... Wake up!




In YOUR opinion, correct? I and other owners seem to FEEL differently. If this is your opinion, I have no issue with it. Perhaps an explanation for where you feel it could be better based on your personal experience could be helpful, so that we understand where you are coming from? For instance, I have explained what I truly love about the qualities of the DAC, which in my opinion based on listening with a host of headphones that I've provided examples of, outshines the capable Amp section. What settings were you listening with? Polarity, iem-match, and filter modes all affect the sound I get out of mine.

I'm not claiming that you are wrong, or even that I disagree since you've presented no examples that I can compare against. So I personally would appreciate it greatly if you put some detail into how you arrived at your sweeping conclusion? Perhaps I've missed something and will learn from what you have to say?

To be clear, this is NOT a challenge or seeking of dogmatic principal clashes based on rhetoric. I simply seek to understand HOW you came to so strong a conclusion based on your personal experiences with the iFi iDSD Micro based on what source(s), with what equipment, playing what genres/types of music? R&B? Rock? Gospel? Lecture Hall notes?

This was a crowd-sourced concept built on community input. As a community member, your reasons are valid, but we need to understand what they are.

I look forward to your response.

Ken N.


----------



## Music Path

What does a flasing red light means?


----------



## iancraig10

music path said:


> What does a flasing red light means?




Ignore it and carry on. 

Oops, sorry, you meant the Micro. Charge it!!


----------



## knorris908

iancraig10 said:


> Ignore it and carry on.
> 
> Oops, sorry, you meant the Micro. Charge it!!




Ugh! I just went back and saw that he only has 1 post.... So, my first "troll", huh? Guess I should feel lucky that I got through the better part of a year before encountering one.  I hear about them all the time on YouTube, but you guys are apparently REALLY good here.

Feeling foolish :redface:

Ken N.


----------



## knorris908

music path said:


> What does a flasing red light means?




Posted previously by iFi Audio in another thread:

"...If the unit is blinking alternating red-blue it means it is charging, but in "under voltage lockout". This can only happen if the unit is switched on.


It is kind of a message telling the user "switch me off and let me charge PLEASE". :regular_smile : It is called Smart Power after all!"


----------



## technobear

I like the micro iDSD so much I now own two of them. I also have two of the micro iCAN.


----------



## Dobrescu George

technobear said:


> I like the micro iDSD so much I now own two of them. I also have two of the micro iCAN.


 
 Just for the fun of it, I think that I can ask why? I mean, making a stack would not make much sense..


----------



## Sound Eq

i do not get it honestly, since this was a crowd concept built, then was the amp section and sound signature not being handled
  
 i am now certain the ifi is brighter than i like, and its amp section needs a push to drive my audeze lcd2 well, it can get the lcd2 loud but loud is not by any means a meaning of driving it well with authority
  
 the bass section also needs push too
  
 i just do not get it why such things do not get looked at if it was a crowd funded concept project


----------



## senorx12562

pekoslavic said:


> I am sorry to say this, but in terms of audio quality this product is totally overrated. A big disappointment and a reminder to the community - is anyone listening out there at all these days by any chance? Or are we only into numbers ... Wake up!


 
 Totally disagree.


----------



## technobear

dobrescu george said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > I like the micro iDSD so much I now own two of them. I also have two of the micro iCAN.
> ...




Two stacks in difference locations makes eminent sense though


----------



## Mr Creosote

sound eq said:


> i do not know somehow i am starting to perceive the ifi micro dsd to be harsh, i am really not knowing why i am starting to have a change of heart to the sound signature.
> 
> honestly it needs more bass and less brightness, with metal music the ifi dsd does not do well in my books anymore.


 

 Is it not possible that the iDSD shows up what ever is put in. Worts and all.


----------



## Dobrescu George

technobear said:


> Two stacks in difference locations makes eminent sense though


 
 Seriousily?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I would just had bought one stack and carry it in a backpack, and with the rest of the money bough more headphones/IEMs. Or a transport to use the stack while on the road too!
  
 But really, it is great that you found a stack that really suffices your needs!


----------



## radlux

Once the battery dies on the micro idsd after the expected life of 3-4 years will the dac only section still work when connected to the laptop USB so it can be be run off line out to a separate HP amp or preamp? Or does battery dead=nothing works on micro idsd?


----------



## technobear

radlux said:


> Once the battery dies on the micro idsd after the expected life of 3-4 years will the dac only section still work when connected to the laptop USB so it can be be run off line out to a separate HP amp or preamp? Or does battery dead=nothing works on micro idsd?




The battery doesn't die as such. It's capacity is reduced. If you are running in eco mode or only use it a few hours a day then it will be a very long time before the battery needs to be replaced.


----------



## radlux

Thanks that's good to know. But I'd still like to know how the design is implemented. Can the dac section function independently if the battery is dead either because it's at end of life and needs to be replaced or has become faulty?

I know iFi offers a replacement battery but I'd like to know still how it works.


----------



## technobear

The battery has to be able to hold some charge. Otherwise you get the red LED and the DAC will not play. It's unlikely that the battery will ever die completely.


----------



## digitallc

technobear said:


> The battery has to be able to hold some charge. Otherwise you get the red LED and the DAC will not play. It's unlikely that the battery will ever die completely.


 

 My battery is dead. It does not charge. It does not play.


----------



## Dobrescu George

digitallc said:


> My battery is dead. It does not charge. It does not play.


 
 I think that the fault might be with the battery. The ifi idsd micro does not exist for enough time for the battery to die yet.
  
 Have you contacted them to repair it?
  
 I think that there is no way that warranty is over yet.


----------



## digitallc

dobrescu george said:


> I think that the fault might be with the battery. The ifi idsd micro does not exist for enough time for the battery to die yet.
> 
> Have you contacted them to repair it?
> 
> I think that there is no way that warranty is over yet.


 

 Yes, they have been extremely responsive and I am being sorted out


----------



## Music Path

sound eq said:


> i do not know somehow i am starting to perceive the ifi micro dsd to be harsh, i am really not knowing why i am starting to have a change of heart to the sound signature.
> 
> honestly it needs more bass and less brightness, with metal music the ifi dsd does not do well in my books anymore.


 
 Had the same experience at beginning, but if you want a warmer bassier sound you have several options:

 Leave the driver on predefinition settings. Do not upsample, just use 16 bit 44100hz mode. Green light.
 Use standard instead of bit perfect, if ou find the sound to strong. Even though bit perfect reduces treble a tad, it might sound more artificial and less musical.
 Use extra bass, never 3d mode.
 Use nagative polarity. More laid back.
 Try use eco mode if possible, sound more natural and refined. Turbo and Normal have more upfront  sound.
 Use IEM match with normal mode if possible.

 Get the ican as sugestion, and use idsd as dac, warmer sound signature the say.
  
 Hope it helps.


----------



## technobear

music path said:


> Use standard instead of bit perfect, if ou find the sound to strong. Even though bit perfect reduces treble a tad, it might sound more artificial and less musical.




That is the exact opposite of my experience.

The whole point of Bit Perfect is that it sounds LESS artificial and MORE musical.

The Standard filter is basically the one we have all been deriding for the last 35 years as sounding "digital" and is really only present because the chip supports it and so that you can here how bad it is.

If you have particular recordings where Bit Perfect doesn't have quite enough top end air then use Minimum Phase instead as this has slightly more top end treble without losing the musicality to much.

Personally I don't find the iDSD bright at all. Some of my CDs are bright but there is XBASS to deal with that.


----------



## technobear

digitallc said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > The battery has to be able to hold some charge. Otherwise you get the red LED and the DAC will not play. It's unlikely that the battery will ever die completely.
> ...




There is always one :rolleyes:


I think iFi have pointed out already that the iDSD does need some 'me time' whilst connected to a live USB port in order to keep the battery topped up.

A problem can arise if you listen all the time your computer is on/awake and your computer does not power the USB socket when it is off/asleep.

For example, my desktop PC powers all its USB ports when asleep and I never turn it off so that iDSD is always ready to go.

My Acer V11 laptop does not power any USB ports while asleep so I have to remember to turn it on and keep it awake to charge the other iDSD while not listening to music.

My ThinkPad Edge 11 has the best answer. It has one port that is always live so long as the PSU is plugged in, even when the laptop is off. I don't use that one with the iDSD though because it is noisy. The V11 has the advantage of being FANLESS which is why I bought it.


----------



## Music Path

For me, standard didnt sound that bad, it improved the sound a lot compared what i ve heard, but bit perfect has better instrument seperation and less sounstage. Didnt use minimum fase much, but have to try it beacause i dont want to lose the sounstage of standard. 

But difference are subtile between the 3. 
I see that for some, musicality is great detail and seperation. - bitperfect style. Slower. 
For others, the more one swing mode, reducing the detail enfase a bit. Faster.

Sound is very subjective.
I got the two point of views, and for me i cant say one is better then other, just diferent sound experience.
The ican dont has the bitperfect filter, but indeed people say its quite musical and compliments well the idsd.

Well i m new here, still learning, i ve to listen the idsd again and again i guess.


----------



## maricius

music path said:


> Sound is very subjective.
> I got the two point of views, and for me i cant say one is better then other, just diferent sound experience.
> *The ican dont has the bitperfect filter, but indeed people say its quite musical and compliments well the idsd.*
> 
> Well i m new here, still learning, i ve to listen the idsd again and again i guess.


 
  
 The iCan can't have a BitPerfect filter as the filters are digital filters for the DAC section. The iCan is a standalone amplifier.


----------



## Mr Creosote

technobear said:


> That is the exact opposite of my experience.
> 
> The whole point of Bit Perfect is that it sounds LESS artificial and MORE musical.
> 
> ...


 
 Correct
  
 Tell me if I am off base But this is just wot the whole point of no sampling is it the native blurb.
  
 I read about the Amr machines and are widely reviewed for their analogue sound. Central is the no sampling filter setting.  Running in a dp777 here and for sure it sounds the most enjoyable on no sampling bit perfect. Nice nice 
  
 Can't afford the top range cd77 even used but the dp777 seems really good.Thats why I have one to try.
  
 The micro is not in the same league but it only 1/10th of the ticket so you get what you pay for.


----------



## Sound Eq

can we recap what settings give u the wamrest result as now i am totally confused, my headphone is audeze lcd2 and i also use the alo mk3 B amp with the ifi


----------



## technobear

If you want warm sound then buy warm headphones


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> If you want warm sound then buy warm headphones


 
 Of course  My favorite are the warm ones.


----------



## maricius

sound eq said:


> can we recap what settings give u the wamrest result as now i am totally confused, my headphone is audeze lcd2 and i also use the alo mk3 B amp with the ifi


 

 I personally use the iDSD on "BitPerfect" with no upsampling on my laptop running Audirvana Plus with these extra settings.
  
  
  

  
 I find this pretty warm, at least relative to my DX90 on L2.2.0 firmware


----------



## KritiKal

sound eq said:


> can we recap what settings give u the wamrest result as now i am totally confused, my headphone is audeze lcd2 and i also use the alo mk3 B amp with the ifi




Bitperfect filter
Xbass on
3D off

For me, no other physical settings make a change to the tuning. IME, reducing the gain simply reduces the gain, and adjusting the polarity does nothing except *maybe* make soundstage positioning information a little more vague. 

I have reduced the treble from 9k to 18k by about 1.2dB for use with the 3D holographic setting. It seems that a 1dB reduction equates to a far greater drop in treble with 3D activated. I know that EQ isn't for everyone, but it goes a long way for me. If it wasn't for the bite that 3D added (especially to already treble heavy recordings) it would be flawless IMO.


----------



## WriterHead

technobear said:


> That is the exact opposite of my experience.
> 
> The whole point of Bit Perfect is that it sounds LESS artificial and MORE musical.
> 
> ...


 
 I am unable to tell any difference between those filters.


----------



## KritiKal

writerhead said:


> I am unable to tell any difference between those filters.




The bitperfect & minimum phase filters do have a difference but for a while I struggled to hear anything meaningful between them. For me, Bitperfect pushes the vocals back by a touch, takes a little extra sparkle from the treble and reduces the "twang" of guitars wheb compared to Minimun Phase. The differences are minimal, but they are audible.


----------



## Sound Eq

kritikal said:


> The bitperfect & minimum phase filters do have a difference but for a while I struggled to hear anything meaningful between them. For me, Bitperfect pushes the vocals back by a touch, takes a little extra sparkle from the treble and reduces the "twang" of guitars wheb compared to Minimun Phase. The differences are minimal, but they are audible.


 
 so why some people say the warmest is the standard filer, so according to you bitperfect is the warmest filter


----------



## Sound Eq

kindly please answer my concern
  
 i am using the following rig
  
 ifi dsd micro---- alo mk3---- audeze lcd2
  
 I know i should set the output of the ifi dsd to direct mode when I want to send signal to an amp
  
 but I noticed the volume is so so low compared to when i set the output of ifi to preamp, and I am talking about a huge volume difference between the 2 settings which made me set the ifi to pre-amp when i amping it with alo mk3
  
 very strange why this is happening???


----------



## WriterHead

sound eq said:


> so why some people say the warmest is the standard filer, so according to you bitperfect is the warmest filter


 
  
 It should come as no surprise. This is headfi, where audiophile batteries and memory cards happen.


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> kindly please answer my concern
> 
> i am using the following rig
> 
> ...


 
  
 micro iDSD's pre-amp mode has a fixed 9dB gain, where direct has no gain, that's why there is a volume difference..
  
 I do however believe ALO Rx Mk3 has a gain switch - the 'High' option should give you a 12dB gain. If you haven't done so, set the micro iDSD to 'direct' and Rx Mk3 to high gain - if you can't get enough volume that way, then set the micro iDSD to 'pre-amp'. Of course, you can always plug the LCD2 into micro iDSD's headphone-out  since it is much more powerful than Rx Mk3.


----------



## iFi audio

Quote: 





clieos said:


> micro iDSD's pre-amp mode has a fixed 9dB gain, where direct has no gain, that's why there is a volume difference..


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Slight tweak.
  
User Manual item 12: Direct and Pre-Amp.
  
 Direct is always fixed level, 2V.
  
 Preamp is 0dB Gain (so 2V max.) on Eco and 10dB (5.5V max, limited by powersupply) on Normal/Turbo settings.
  
 Headphone is 0dB Gain (so 2V max) on Eco and 10dB (5.5V max, limited by powersupply). On Turbo gain is around 20dB and maximum output is > 10V into sufficiently high impedance Headphones.
  
 User Manual - attached.


----------



## KritiKal

sound eq said:


> so why some people say the warmest is the standard filer, so according to you bitperfect is the warmest filter







writerhead said:


> It should come as no surprise. This is headfi, where audiophile batteries and memory cards happen.




It sounds the "warmest" because it *is* the "warmest", and measures as such.

Here's a graph of the frequency responses of all filters _(EDIT: For PCM)_, measured and published by ClieOS.





Here's a link to his review:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/13009
It's well done, accurate and definitely worth reading.

Can you point me in the direction of comments where people have said that the standard filter is the warmest? I'm struggling to find any, except one.
My experience in the thread contradicts it, so I am genuinely curious to read the comments stating that standard is warmest/bitperfect is brightest. Many thanks!


----------



## Sound Eq

kritikal said:


> It sounds the "warmest" because it *is* the "warmest", and measures as such.
> 
> Here's a graph of the frequency responses of all filters, measured and published by ClieOS.
> 
> ...


 
 it was mentioned in this thread by a user 
  
 but your graph above is really interesting, and i will read the link u provided thanks so much


----------



## Sound Eq

well i do not know but after alot alot of A/B between connecting my audeze directly to ifi micro dsd and between connecting it to ifi amped by alo mk3 B, i totally prefer the ifi-alo mk3 combo sound i hear, as i feel that i am getting more warmth and less brightness issues with my audeze, and also more punchier bass
  
 now also when doing lots of A/B between using the output to be direct in the output setting than preamplifier I always like to use the preamp setting in ifi with my alo mk3 B by miles and miles,
  
 with direct mode output and even if i use the High gain in Alo mk3 , I feel the music is not loud enough with direct mode output and alo, while with preamp mode and alo high gain, the volume is so good 
  
 I am now using the bitperfect filter and i think its correct it might sound warmer than the rest.
  
 on another note I was wondering which is a bassier and warmer amp alo mk3 B or ifi micrio ican and which is more powerful


----------



## ClieOS

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Slight tweak.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah, I did my measurement with normal setting and got a little over 9dB, so I just rounded it back to 9dB. That certainly explains it.
  
 My headphone-out measurement (Turbo mode) isn't done on very high impedance impedance load (around 50ohm, IIRC) so that also explains why it doesn't swing as high as it can.


----------



## WriterHead

kritikal said:


> It sounds the "warmest" because it *is* the "warmest", and measures as such.
> 
> Here's a graph of the frequency responses of all filters _(EDIT: For PCM)_, measured and published by ClieOS.
> 
> ...


 

 1,5 dB difference near the limits of human hearing threshold. No wonder why they sound the same to me.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> It sounds the "warmest" because it *is* the "warmest", and measures as such.
> 
> Here's a graph of the frequency responses of all filters, measured and published by ClieOS.
> 
> ...


 
 What you and the graph point out is orret, bitperfet is warmer in sound, less upper treble/ air. But it sounds more strong and punchy, so some might consider it not warm, and bit bright sometimes. Maybie because of that, there is a roloff in the upper treble with bit perfect. Another thing is that with bass boost, the brightness of the standart gets tamed, so it feels warm too.


----------



## xrodx

hey guys, how does the idsd micro performs with grado RS1i headphones? does anyone have experienced this combo? thanks


----------



## tf1216

For half the price of the $650 ALO Rx Mk3 B I would give the Micro iCan a listen.  The money would be very well spent learning how iFi Audio wants you to hear your music.  The combo is utterly fantastic!


----------



## KritiKal

writerhead said:


> 1,5 dB difference near the limits of human hearing threshold. No wonder why they sound the same to me.




Yeah, I struggled to perceive any difference for a while. it wasn't until I did some critical listening and some very fast flicking of the filter switch (one of the benefits of an analogue switch being that they affect the signal [relatively] instantaneously) that I noticed a delicate change in the texture of high octave synthesizer melodies and cymbals. It really is a minor change though. However, further listening made me realize that it also seems to push the vocals back in the soundstage a little (with 3D on, at least). I have a theory about this though. The areas of vocals that are affected are out of the direct vocal range but are in the indirect areas, such as sibilance, etc... and these higher frequencies are used as distance cues by our minds, as high frequencies diffuse sooner (relative to distance) than lower frequencies, especially in areas affected by the bitperfect filter.

Differences are small, between the filters but, all in all, I think that's a good thing and by design. The aim is to remove the noise while maintaining SI as best as possible.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

xrodx said:


> hey guys, how does the idsd micro performs with grado RS1i headphones? does anyone have experienced this combo? thanks


 

 I have a RS2i on with the micro iDSD Eco Mode + X-Bass amazing + Bit-perfect filter combo, absoluty stunning. Absoluty best match, sounds better than my iBasso DX50 alone.


----------



## xrodx

h1f1add1cted said:


> I have a RS2i on with the micro iDSD Eco Mode + X-Bass amazing + Bit-perfect filter combo, absoluty stunning. Absoluty best match, sounds better than my iBasso DX50 alone.


 

 Thanks, I'm thinking of picking an 6 month old mint RS1i for around $520 ... I'm very tempted, since i was looking for this cans or GS1000e. oh ...my poor wallet


----------



## tf1216

I have been lurking on Head-Fi for years and it wasn't until today that I realized there was a dedicated review section.  I was reading ClieOS' review of the Micro iDSD, then clicked around and BAM!  I landed here http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews
  
 When I acquire a larger headphone inventory I plan on writing up my own personal take on the iDSD.  I know I won't approach the veracity of ClieOS or describe my thoughts like the others did but it will be fun to try.  I'd like to inform any newbie reading through Head-Fi or assist the next headphone enthusiast in selecting their next DAC/Amp.  The iDSD is too versatile to not have it land near the top of their list.  The more of us that help them out, the better.
  
 Am I the last one to know about this landing page for reviews? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Who else might see themselves putting together a review of their own?


----------



## Brooko

I'll be reviewing my persoanl unit as soon as time permits.  Still ahve another couple to get through before I get to the iFi.


----------



## mogulmaster

Just got the LCD-X to pair with this badboy. Is anyone using Normal mode with IEMatch engaged? When I'm mellowing out before bed, I don't like to listen too loud, so ECO mode seems to do the trick, although dynamics are reduced slightly. Since impedence is 20ohm for LCD-X, does changing IEMatch make for a better match (output impedance-wise?)


----------



## KritiKal

tf1216 said:


> I have been lurking on Head-Fi for years and it wasn't until today that I realized there was a dedicated review section.  I was reading ClieOS' review of the Micro iDSD, then clicked around and BAM!  I landed here http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews
> 
> When I acquire a larger headphone inventory I plan on writing up my own personal take on the iDSD.  I know I won't approach the veracity of ClieOS or describe my thoughts like the others did but it will be fun to try.  I'd like to inform any newbie reading through Head-Fi or assist the next headphone enthusiast in selecting their next DAC/Amp.  The iDSD is too versatile to not have it land near the top of their list.  The more of us that help them out, the better.
> 
> Am I the last one to know about this landing page for reviews?    Who else might see themselves putting together a review of their own?




I don't have the time for reviews these days, even if I felt comfortable writing an audio review, and then if I did, I feel I'd only be rehashing the countless outstanding reviews.  (apologies if that sentence sounds condescending, it by no means is intended that way, It was re-written twice and it reads that way no matter how I put it!) Please, don't let me stop you though. 

I will say that I am truely impressed by it, especially with the 3D holographic setting. I did find that the extra upper treble/top octave made it sound thin, but a 1dB reduction brought it right down (by more than 1dB at the headphones). My reduction actually took it towards (although not completely down to) the headphones natural tuning, which is always a good thing. I don't equalize for music but for my setup and for a relatively flat response, so it's not an issue for me anymore, but I can see how those who won't touch equalization wouldn't like it, especially with already bright headphones. Other than that, the 3D really brings the soundstage to life pulling in and pushing out where one would want while opening it up, increasing separation and air and giving a more natural timbre.

I had a long listening session today and I have to say that while burn in appeared to improve performance, becoming accustomed to the sound seems to have had a far greater effect. It usually takes me a non-stop listening session to start to get acquainted with the sound and I finally broke through the barrier today. I would have to put physical burn in at 15% and mental burn in at 85%.

Now, I find it incredible and it is all I had expected and more. Other devices left me feeling short changed, but the iDSD does it all, and does it well. I'm very happy with mine and I think it will be my portable DAC/Amp for years to come!


----------



## h1f1add1cted

mogulmaster said:


> Just got the LCD-X to pair with this badboy. Is anyone using Normal mode with IEMatch engaged? When I'm mellowing out before bed, I don't like to listen too loud, so ECO mode seems to do the trick, although dynamics are reduced slightly. Since impedence is 20ohm for LCD-X, does changing IEMatch make for a better match (output impedance-wise?)


 

 Regardining to output impendance of the iDSD, it's IEMatch off = 1 ohms, IEMatch = High = 4 ohms IEMatch = Ultra = 1 Ohms.
  
 More loudness often is for us a "dynamic feeling", you can still stay with ECO mode without problems imho.


----------



## coastal1

lucidreamer said:


> Just found some cool trick in Foobar using the Resampler DSP plug-in and want to share it.
> 
> The sample rate list there is up until 96000, but if you type in manually 192000 and anything else, it will eat it without errors.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting.  Just got the iDSD and pretty new to both Foobar and hq headphones.  Currently using WASAPI on Foobar to play FLAC, but want to try DSD so per IFis recommendation I'm going to do a full uninstall, then (1) dl SACD/DSD plugin, (2) dl Foobar, and (3) dl ASIO plug-in.  Will also add WASAPI and will try the above rec as well.  Any other highly recommended plug-ins/components/settings for the best sounding music?  I'll worry about skins and such later, just want to play hq music first.  I'll be trying the Micro as both a DAC/amp and purely as a DAC connected to a Bottlehead Crack amp


----------



## technobear

coastal1 said:


> Interesting.  Just got the iDSD and pretty new to both Foobar and hq headphones.  Currently using WASAPI on Foobar to play FLAC, but want to try DSD so per IFis recommendation I'm going to do a full uninstall, then (1) dl SACD/DSD plugin, (2) dl Foobar, and (3) dl ASIO plug-in.  Will also add WASAPI and will try the above rec as well.  Any other highly recommended plug-ins/components/settings for the best sounding music?  I'll worry about skins and such later, just want to play hq music first.  I'll be trying the Micro as both a DAC/amp and purely as a DAC connected to a Bottlehead Crack amp




Some useful help here:

http://www.audiostream.com/content/how-play-dsd-file-using-foobar2000

Once you have it all installed and it still doesn't play correctly, try this post:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-iclub-members-v4-08-beta-firmware-page-136/1950#post_11010460

Have fun!


----------



## lucidreamer

coastal1 said:


> Interesting.  Just got the iDSD and pretty new to both Foobar and hq headphones.  Currently using WASAPI on Foobar to play FLAC, but want to try DSD so per IFis recommendation I'm going to do a full uninstall, then (1) dl SACD/DSD plugin, (2) dl Foobar, and (3) dl ASIO plug-in.  Will also add WASAPI and will try the above rec as well.  Any other highly recommended plug-ins/components/settings for the best sounding music?  I'll worry about skins and such later, just want to play hq music first.  I'll be trying the Micro as both a DAC/amp and purely as a DAC connected to a Bottlehead Crack amp


 
 I never used WASAPI with Foobar, just sticked to ASIO with my Win 8 laptop, it seems to be doing the trick and bypasses the windows audio kernel just fine. 
  
 Yes, it is a good idea to install DSD plugin for Foobar just for the sake of testing and comparing the sound, but there are quite a few people (including myself) who still end up listening to music without any filters or upsampling to DSD or higher rates. DSD seems to be cleaner but it still has some artificial/compressed character where the original PCM sounds more airy and natural (again, it is just my opinion). Listening to real DSD files is another story, they sound like a real deal, pretty resolving and natural, especially some classical or acoustic albums. However, the whole SACD album weighs like 4-5 gigs or more!!! Storing them on the hard drive may not be practical.
  
 For Foobar - I tweaked some keyboard shortcuts, like pressing Ctrl+Shift+P, Ctrl+Shift+N changes tracks (previous and next), Space for Pause, etc.


----------



## Bigbwb

Hey folks,
Can someone quickly give me the best settings to use on my new ifi micro iDSD in a desktop DAC configuration using Jriver?

So far in the micro I have "direct" selected rather than pre, battery in normal being my PC is powering it via USB. All 3D, etc is off.
In Jriver, I'm using ASIO, bitstream via DoP, etc. missing anything?

Thank you!


----------



## john57

You really do not need bitstream via DoP but have bitstream yes DSD turned on.


----------



## Bigbwb

john57 said:


> You really do not need bitstream via DoP but have bitstream yes DSD turned on.


 

 Ok, thanks!


----------



## Music Path

lucidreamer said:


> Just found some cool trick in Foobar using the Resampler DSP plug-in and want to share it.
> 
> The sample rate list there is up until 96000, but if you type in manually 192000 and anything else, it will eat it without errors.
> 
> ...




To avoid the roll off in the upper highs with bit perfect, you can use the 3d on, and restores it more or less to flat again and it sounded great. 
About the sampling, i didnt tried your tip, but i felt in general leaving it with 44100 hz is the best option, but it had some noise compared to other sampling rates, so i decided to set 32 bit 44100hz which lovers the noise a bit, and made the whole sound more lively and stronger. I think the best of all is 32bit 192000hz, but highs can get at bit harsh sometimes and less natural, but i think adding itube or ican or both, it would tame them a bit, and it would sound great. 
On that option the light turns yellow.


----------



## lucidreamer

Originally Posted by *hm22music* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 To avoid the roll off in the upper highs with bit perfect, *you can use the 3d on*, and restores it more or less to flat again and it sounded great.
   
  
 Not sure I understand what the 3d on is.


----------



## KritiKal

lucidreamer said:


> Not sure I understand what the 3d on is.




3D Holographic Switch (on the front of the unit). It's essentially crossfeed++


----------



## lucidreamer

Ok, thanks. I don't really use that mode anyways, it sounds a little unnatural to me and prefer to connect to an external amplifier in direct mode.


----------



## Bigbwb

One more question...
Using Jriver on a PC running an i5 cpu with JR score of 2855, is it not possible to encode everything on the fly to DSD? I tried the various ones but get constant stuttering.


----------



## lucidreamer

bigbwb said:


> One more question...
> Using Jriver on a PC running an i5 cpu with JR score of 2855, is it not possible to encode everything on the fly to DSD? I tried the various ones but get constant stuttering.


 
 Try Foobar with DSD plugin/components. i5 should be a breeze to convert to DSD512 on the fly. I have i7 and converts them without a hiccup, only 15-20% cpu increase.


----------



## john57

It is generally best for J.River to have the buffering set for 500ms regardless of CPU speed when converting to DSD.


----------



## technobear

bigbwb said:


> One more question...
> Using Jriver on a PC running an i5 cpu with JR score of 2855, is it not possible to encode everything on the fly to DSD? I tried the various ones but get constant stuttering.




Did you alter the 'USB Streaming Mode' in the iFi Audio USB Driver dialog?

Try setting it back to 'Safe'.

Also try increasing the ASIO buffer size.


----------



## Music Path

lucidreamer said:


> Ok, thanks. I don't really use that mode anyways, it sounds a little unnatural to me and prefer to connect to an external amplifier in direct mode.


 
 Well with bit perfect on it doesn´t sound that artificial with some HPs. But ok sound is subjective.


----------



## lucidreamer

music path said:


> Well with bit perfect on it doesn´t sound that artificial with some HPs. But ok sound is subjective.


 
  
 It is not about the filtering, it is the conversion from compressed to DSD that sounds not that good(artificial) to me compared to the original before upsampling.
 True DSDs sound awesome however.
  
 DSD do not have BitPerfect mode if I remember right. BitPerfect filtering switch only applies to PCM files not DSD. This is taken from the user guide:
  
 DSD: Extreme/Extended/Standard Range (analogue) filters
 PCM: Bit-Perfect/Minimum-Phase/Standard (digital)filters
 DXD: Bit-Perfect Processing (fixed) analogue filter


----------



## DougD

lucidreamer said:


> It is not about the filtering, it is the conversion from compressed to DSD that sounds not that good(artificial) to me compared to the original before upsampling.
> True DSDs sound awesome however.
> 
> <snip snip>


 
  
 I've tried upsampling/converting Redbook quality files to DSD and 24-192 etc, and I can't convince myself that doing so creates anything that really sounds any different. (But it's always momentarily exciting to see the iDSD's Micro' LED light up yellow, white, blue or magenta.) 
  
 Now real DSD .... VERY NICE. The only drawback is that the DSDs files I have aren't from artists I ever listened to (much) before I got their DSD files.


----------



## KritiKal

lucidreamer said:


> It is not about the filtering, it is the conversion from compressed to DSD that sounds not that good(artificial) to me compared to the original before upsampling.
> True DSDs sound awesome however.
> 
> DSD do not have BitPerfect mode if I remember right. BitPerfect filtering switch only applies to PCM files not DSD. This is taken from the user guide:
> ...




Agreed. I tried DSD conversion and while there was perhaps a touch more clarity, dynamics seemed to be reduced making it sound less fluid, so I'm keeping my files in their original format.

I have no idea what the filters are like for DSD, (ClieOS do you have read-outs for them, or know what's going on?). The volume changes too much between them for me to compare and get an idea of anything else happening, but there may be something similar happening with these filters too.


----------



## ClieOS

kritikal said:


> Agreed. I tried DSD conversion and while there was perhaps a touch more clarity, dynamics seemed to be reduced making it sound less fluid, so I'm keeping my files in their original format.
> 
> I have no idea what the filters are like for DSD, (@ClieOS do you have read-outs for them, or know what's going on?). The volume changes too much between them for me to compare and get an idea of anything else happening, but there may be something similar happening with these filters too.


 
  
 Filter on DSD is just analog filter after the DAC. They should be all of the same kind, except how far the cut-off frequency is. RMAA doesn't do DSD signal, so there is no easy way to measure them.


----------



## KritiKal

clieos said:


> Filter on DSD is just analog filter after the DAC. They should be all of the same kind, except how far the cut-off frequency is. RMAA doesn't do DSD signal, so there is no easy way to measure them.




Yeah okay, Thanks! Sorry, I thought maybe you were using some analogue testing equipment too, so I figured you may have been able to share some data. My mistake!


----------



## ClieOS

kritikal said:


> Yeah okay, Thanks! Sorry, I thought maybe you were using some analogue testing equipment too, so I figured you may have been able to share some data. My mistake!


 
  
 Technically there might be some ways I can try to measure them on my oscilloscope, but it is just too troublesome.


----------



## coastal1

dougd said:


> Now real DSD .... VERY NICE. The only drawback is that the DSDs files I have aren't from artists I ever listened to (much) before I got their DSD files.


 
  
 What's the difference between SACD and native DSD (if any)?  I thought I'd read that SACD was just a Sony proprietary form of DSD that wasn't very commercially successful, though there are quite a few SACD titles I like a lot (ranging from Miles Davis to Pink Floyd to Dylan to Beck).  Is native DSD a different format altogether?  I like a fairly wide variety of music, but not into the artists listed here for example - https://www.nativedsd.com/artists


----------



## iFi audio

coastal1 said:


> What's the difference between SACD and native DSD (if any)?  I thought I'd read that SACD was just a Sony proprietary form of DSD that wasn't very commercially successful, though there are quite a few SACD titles I like a lot (ranging from Miles Davis to Pink Floyd to Dylan to Beck).  Is native DSD a different format altogether?  I like a fairly wide variety of music, but not into the artists listed here for example - https://www.nativedsd.com/artists


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Native DSD Music pride themselves on using Pyramix/Merging recording equipment that records in DSD (ie: _natively_). There are others out there that do this (Bty, 2L actually records in DXD and then transcodes to DSD).
  
 SACDs are disks by Sony et al that are supposed to be DSD recordings but whether or not they are truly, is open to debate because they came from all manner of different sources. So it is a nightmare to track down.
  
 As to backgroound, some 80%-90% of recording studio equipment only records in PCM 24/88 or 24/96.
  
 So by the time we receive it, it has been amended/transcoded to say, 16/44 for CD or DSD (for SACD disks). These are just two examples.
  
 So when poeple listen to DSD or PCM it is very difficult to truly say, it was all in DSD from recording to playback. For PCM, it is far easier and even then, the file is unlikely to have remain untouched from the original 24/88 or 24/96 format.
  
 And this is all before we discuss what happens at the conversion end.


----------



## KritiKal

clieos said:


> Technically there might be some ways I can try to measure them on my oscilloscope, but it is just too troublesome.




Totally understandable, it would be a nightmare with an oscilloscope!

Perhaps iFi audio can comment on the cut-off frequencies, etc... for the DSD filters? I would imagine all this data would be (close to) readily at hand.


----------



## Music Path

Testing now turbo mode with the HD 650, but i started to wonder something about those tipes of output powers, after 4000mW of power output the sound gets great with most of HPs, but the volume is quite loud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







. I wonder those who have stronger amps then micro ( >4 watts ), they must get so loud, that barely you can go after 10 am or 12am. lol The earing doesnt supports volumes over 85db at long listening sessions. Most of HPs and big desktop rigs go well beyond that. Its like having a car which reaches 300kmh or 400kmh but you cant drive that at most places without puting something at risk. Like having a bottleneck put by our own ears.xD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 
 But great performance at turbo mode,, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ps :   PC volume is at 50 %


----------



## iFi audio

music path said:


> Testing now turbo mode with the HD 650, but i started to wonder something about those tipes of output powers, after 4000mW of power output the sound gets great with most of HPs, but the volume is quite loud
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The HD650 is a very easy to drive headphone. Hence, we recommend Eco or Normal power mode.
  
 You may wish also to use iEMatch set to Off or High-Sensitivity.
  
 Certainly not Turbo.
  
  
 We like car analogies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Pairing the headphone with the correct amp setting is quite essential otherwise the headphone itself is not used at it optimium setting - so it will not sound its best.
  
  
 Turbo + HD650 = Ferrari and towing a trailer.
  
 Eco + HE-6 = Ford Fiesta towing a caravan.
  
  
 Both are extreme and unlikely cases and are not recommended - we hope you get a sense of what we are trying to suggest.
  
  
 ps: PC volume should always be 100% so it is not truncated at the source.


----------



## coastal1

I love that you guys consider the HD650 'very easy to drive.' It certainly is with the Micro, but in my short tenure with the HD650 other portable amps struggled at best. The volume got there with other portable amps but it felt like a struggle and sq wasn't close to the Micro. Granted the other portable amps cost less but my search stopped with the Micro. Continuing with the car analogy, a Ferrari at 100 mph is smooth as silk in part because its capable of much more, whereas I'd imagine a Fiesta could get to 100 mph but it wouldn't be pretty. 

And the DAC helps the micro more than the above



ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The HD650 is a very easy to drive headphone. Hence, we recommend Eco or Normal power mode.
> 
> ...


----------



## Music Path

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The HD650 is a very easy to drive headphone. Hence, we recommend Eco or Normal power mode.
> 
> ...


 
 Volume at 100%, well i tried it, now i can only go max 12 am normal mode, and 2pm, eco mode. The sound is better at normal mode. But i found, that we are listening music quite loud with 100%, its get complicated to control the volume. Nice analogy, btw


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Volume at 100%, well i tried it, now i can only go max 12 am normal mode, and 2pm, eco mode. The sound is better at normal mode. But i found, that we are listening music quite loud with 100%, its get complicated to control the volume. Nice analogy, btw




Well, due to the channel imbalance, etc... it's recommended to listen with the volume pot between 9 and 12. If eco isn't doing the job before 12 then normal is the way to go.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Well, due to the channel imbalance, etc... it's recommended to listen with the volume pot between 9 and 12. If eco isn't doing the job before 12 then normal is the way to go.


 
 Testing now with fidelio X2, they sound good too at eco, between 9 and 12, and pc volume at 100% . Thought that the channel imbalance would afect beetwen 9-12, thanks for the advice.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Testing now with fidelio X2, they sound good too at eco, between 9 and 12, and pc volume at 100% . Thought that the channel imbalance would afect beetwen 9-12, thanks for the advice.




According to iFi (and from memory) the channel imbalance stops at 9 o'clock. In my experience/with my unit, it comes good at 9:30. There's always some variance between pots though, even in the same batch, it's just the nature of the component. So, yours might balance after, at, or even before 9 o'clock. It's worth experimenting to find out where you no longer detect it. I use a mono track (downmixed stereo) as it's easier to locate a more precise point.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Using the volume from windows at 100% is always recommended, for any product in fact, because windows volume tends to not be distortion and artifact free.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> According to iFi (and from memory) the channel imbalance stops at 9 o'clock. In my experience/with my unit, it comes good at 9:30. There's always some variance between pots though, even in the same batch, it's just the nature of the component. So, yours might balance after, at, or even before 9 o'clock. It's worth experimenting to find out where you no longer detect it. I use a mono track (downmixed stereo) as it's easier to locate a more precise point.


 
 Mine is at 9.30 too, and i found the sweet spot for listening too at 10 to 10.30


----------



## Music Path

dobrescu george said:


> Using the volume from windows at 100% is always recommended, for any product in fact, because windows volume tends to not be distortion and artifact free.


 
 Yes with 100 % pc volume the music sounds better, but you have to be more carefull with the ears.


----------



## rickyleelee

Past posts have suggested running at 12-3 o clock. I open my right out to 3-4 o clock. The more open, the less restriction. take the handbrake off and let the Lamborghini fly man


----------



## Music Path

rickyleelee said:


> Past posts have suggested running at 12-3 o clock. I open my right out to 3-4 o clock. The more open, the less restriction. take the handbrake off and let the Lamborghini fly man




Looool xD Nice coment man  
Well i was using it that with pc volume at 50 percent, but with 100 percent and 
Power matched with impedance, i can go only with 9-12. Like ifi sad, and its sounds good. I could use the senns 650 in eco mode, at 12-3, but they sound better at normal. With the fidelio x2 35ohm i would need to use iem match to get volume to 12-3, but it reduces the atack and sparkle of the sound, so i leave it off. I want soundstage. 
But i noticed that some say to use it at 9-12 others at 12-3. 

Seems a good question to ifi clearify again, so that we get a definitive orientation. So wich is the best ifi? 
 Lol
(Just to mantain it clear for all users of the topic)


----------



## rickyleelee

your 650s, try vol 100% and eco or normal. with iEmatch set to high-sensitivity. depending on your music, you should go 3 o clock (or 7,000rpm!). i never drive with handbrake on


----------



## Music Path

rickyleelee said:


> your 650s, try vol 100% and eco or normal. with iEmatch set to high-sensitivity. depending on your music, you should go 3 o clock (or 7,000rpm!). i never drive with handbrake on





Well if that way it works for you, fine.
I dont use iem match because it kinda 
alters the sound. I leave it off likw ifi sad. I would like they would clearify on this topic for and the rest of the members again, but i think they already gave the definitive answer before.
Cheers


----------



## Bigbwb

Has anyone compared the Micro iDSD to either the Teac UD-501 or UD-301?  The upcoming UD-503 looks intriguing!


----------



## Music Path

On the driver there is an option called sound intensity EQ. Does somebody use it for listening music? It kinda felt less tiring, but i dont know if it advisable to use it for music.


----------



## technobear

music path said:


> On the driver there is an option called sound intensity EQ. Does somebody use it for listening music? It kinda felt less tiring, but i dont know if it advisable to use it for music.




What driver?

I don't see anything like that here.


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> What driver?
> 
> I don't see anything like that here.




You have to instal a driver on windows to recognise the iDSD. Then you go to the volume down right on the screen. Click on the speaker simbol, then go sound improvements. Its the fourth option. I already done A B comparison and i think it acts like iem match, it turns the sound smooter but the treble is not the same. So i have it off. 
Well its all part of the learning process, since it has alot of functions, its takes time. Im no audio engineer, but im always curious. Nothing will be left behind.


----------



## technobear

music path said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > What driver?
> ...




What you describe is nothing to do with the iFi driver.

The features you describe are provided by your sound card or on-board sound system.


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> What you describe is nothing to do with the iFi driver.
> 
> The features you describe are provided by your sound card or on-board sound system.




Im quite sure it is the ifi driver,
The name of it is:
Ifi(by AMR)HD+USB audio

My onboard card driver doesnt have that option. 

I would like to show you a printscreen,
but everything is in portugiese. :/


----------



## technobear

music path said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > What you describe is nothing to do with the iFi driver.
> ...




The iFi USB Driver has this interface:






It has no other functions.


----------



## xrodx

i think he's talking about this.
  

 Sorry it's in spanish, but it says it is some kind of  "equalization of sound, using knowledge about the human ear to reduce different perceptions of volume"


----------



## technobear

Perhaps you are referring to the Windows Sound Device Properties dialog:



This is Windows functionality. Nothing to do with iFi.

If you engage these 'enhancements' then Windows is performing DSP on the data.

You can avoid all Windows processing by using a decent player (like foobar2000) and using the ASIO output driver.

DSP is evil and you should avoid it at all costs for the best sound.


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> Perhaps you are referring to the Windows Sound Device Properties dialog:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I just instaled the driver thats it.
I have foobar 2000, how did you got that menu? O.o Do you have some link to show me?


----------



## rickyleelee

hey bro. mr techno bear is correct. try to delete the iFi driver. the Windows DSP functinality will still be in there. it then shows that this is not the driver itself. this is windows man.

the IFi driver is just a driver. it doesn't do Dsp. Afaik, iFi does not recommend DSP. The iematch you say is not the same. That does not do Dsp. You can get a lot better sound from the micro dsd if you set it up well. useful infotainment for others here. Dsp is evil. i agree 110%


----------



## Music Path

rickyleelee said:


> hey bro. mr techno bear is correct. try to delete the iFi driver. the Windows DSP functinality will still be in there. it then shows that this is not the driver itself. this is windows man.
> 
> the IFi driver is just a driver. it doesn't do Dsp. Afaik, iFi does not recommend DSP. The iematch you say is not the same. That does not do Dsp. You can get a lot better sound from the micro dsd if you set it up well. useful infotainment for others here. Dsp is evil. i agree 110%




Probably many more have it like this, how do i get it like the other user? Whats the process, with configuration of the pc to turn off the dsp thing...


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> The iFi USB Driver has this interface:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Found it, i was making a confusion. Thanks


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Probably many more have it like this, how do i get it like the other user? Whats the process, with configuration of the pc to turn off the dsp thing...




Do you also have the audio routed to the Micro in your audio player? You can set the audio to play directly to the Micro in the settings of Foobar, Jriver, etc... via WASAPI or ASIO.

In case you don't, here's some PDF's on how to do it:
*Foobar*
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_Foobar.pdf&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwjeoOGy7IrGAhVC3KYKHZ3TAJo&usg=AFQjCNHwCt4dTyJnvlgKEwQEVWVgODEICQ&sig2=1AgagB9p3TLlVIFqG9Nz6g
*Jriver*
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_JRMC18%2B19.pdf&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwja67iA7YrGAhUoxqYKHUdvADw&usg=AFQjCNGRGX608DbqcYoO7LuP0amDp1TIdA&sig2=64RdFSJujUUZgKACElbTkQ

ASIO seems to be the preferred method for this though. You can install a component for Foobar to allow communication via ASIO, and the setup is more or less the same. JRiver already has the option for ASIO already, and I believe most other players do too.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Do you also have the audio routed to the Micro in your audio player? You can set the audio to play directly to the Micro in the settings of Foobar, Jriver, etc... via WASAPI or ASIO.
> 
> In case you don't, here's some PDF's on how to do it:
> *Foobar*
> ...




Yes i done that, but i changed the option of the asio buffer size to 8192 and usb streaming to very save, sampling 192000hz. Great sound. Great soundstage.


----------



## rickyleelee

welcome to the micro owners club. best dac under 1k out there. I have the geek 720 and it sounds ever so harder and more tough. it does have a good soundstage but after 30 minutes i get ear fatigue. the micro i dont get that. but they are both very good dacs.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

rickyleelee said:


> welcome to the micro owners club. best dac under 1k out there. I have the geek 720 and it sounds ever so harder and more tough. it does have a good soundstage but after 30 minutes i get ear fatigue. the micro i dont get that. but they are both very good dacs.


 
 I compared the Geek Out 1000 with the micro iDSD. If the iDSD runs under Standard filter = no difference to the Geek. If you go for Bit-Perfect filter, the iDSD wins in terms of more smoothness and less harsh treble. But in general both really great devices. I prefer iDSD because of better usage as full portable rig with my iBasso DX50 (coax out), more power, better crossfeed and a real 6,3mm output.


----------



## tf1216

Have you guys considered writing a review for others to learn from?


----------



## Music Path

Does somebody tried the idsd wit » itube » ican? And/Or the gemini » iusb » idsd combination?
  
 Well the itube and ican are cool, good reviews but only 300mw power  unles with class A its diferent. locks they need more current.
 Wont it bottleneck the idsd driving the hd650 for example?


----------



## senorx12562

music path said:


> Does somebody tried the idsd wit » itube » ican? And/Or the gemini » iusb » idsd combination?
> 
> Well the itube and ican are cool, good reviews but only 300mw power  unles with class A its diferent. locks they need more current.
> Wont it bottleneck the idsd driving the hd650 for example?


 
 I don't own the iTube ( I have a Valhalla 2) but I have an iCan, and it drives the Schiit out of my HD600s as well as my DT880 250 ohm, LCD2s, and HE500s. I also have the iDSD Micro, and it is a great pairing with any of these phones, even alone, although I think the iCan has a better sounding headphone amp than the amp in the iDSD Micro. The DAC in the iDSD Micro is absolutely stellar though, and using it with the iCan is the best of all possible worlds. Highly recommended if you can afford/justify the two devices instead of one. The iDSD Micro to Valhalla2 is probably my favorite combo though especially with the HD600s and the HE500s.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Kurt


----------



## Music Path

matttcg said:


> But it annoys me to have to use the adapter with my nice usb cable. I'm using the micro as a desktop solution 90% of the time.


 
 Same here, i like the mercury cable, but the adapter of the idsd doesnt look up to the task. Ifi didnt put an especial adapter since then. Does somebody use the mercury cable? how does it performs with idsd?
  
 Any sugestions for usb adapters?
  
 Question for ifi: Are you still planning put a especial usb adapter for the idsd as acessory, good for mercury/gemini?


----------



## Music Path

senorx12562 said:


> I don't own the iTube ( I have a Valhalla 2) but I have an iCan, and it drives the Schiit out of my HD600s as well as my DT880 250 ohm, LCD2s, and HE500s. I also have the iDSD Micro, and it is a great pairing with any of these phones, even alone, although I think the iCan has a better sounding headphone amp than the amp in the iDSD Micro. The DAC in the iDSD Micro is absolutely stellar though, and using it with the iCan is the best of all possible worlds. Highly recommended if you can afford/justify the two devices instead of one. The iDSD Micro to Valhalla2 is probably my favorite combo though especially with the HD600s and the HE500s.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kurt


 
 Thanks, seems i have to give ican i shot, now i m curious about itube.


----------



## ClieOS

music path said:


> Does somebody tried the idsd wit » itube » ican? And/Or the gemini » iusb » idsd combination?
> 
> Well the itube and ican are cool, good reviews but only 300mw power  unles with class A its diferent. locks they need more current.
> Wont it bottleneck the idsd driving the hd650 for example?


 
  
 iTube is mainly designed for loudspeaker only. It won't add much to an iDSD + iCAN setup and in fact, the 3D Holographic Sound on iTube will kind of mess up iCAN's (or any headphone amp for that matter) soundstage and image.
  
 iCAN itself is way more than enough to drive HD650. Enough is enough, having more doesn't always mean better result.


----------



## gixxerwimp

Just got my micro from Rich at Signature Sound and I'm pleased overall. Compared to my Note 3 (which I think sounds pretty good and had a hard time distinguishing from mobile/desktop USB DAC/amps in retail environments), the micro seems to have more clarity/coherence to the sound, and tighter imaging. The music is just more "present". Hard to say how much is expectation bias. I tried some non-blind ABing with my DT 1350s (Eco, High Sensitivity to get past the channel imbalance) and those were my impressions, as well as with ER-4Ps (Eco, Ultra). 
 
With PCM, the filters are very subtle, Standard having a slightly harsh "digital" sound and Bit-Perfect & Minimum-Phase smoothing things off (not much between them). I tried a few DSD files I've downloaded and got some different colors to show up on the LED. The analog DSD filter has a much stronger effect, with Extreme seeming to cut a shocking amount of highs. In any case, I just wanted to check that it works properly and will be using the micro almost exclusively for Redbook FLAC.
 
BTW, the micro works with system audio on my Note 3 (thankfully, as that's my main transport), but requires UAPP, Onkyo HF Player, or Hiby to work with my Galaxy S3. 
 
My new ZMF Blackwoods were already impressive out of my phone (which just barely manages to drive it), but really come to life with the iFi (Normal/Off). Might use XBass if I feel like the need for some extra low-end oomph. 3D has been disappointing so far, just sounds overly bright and weird.


----------



## KritiKal

gixxerwimp said:


> Just got my micro from Rich at Signature Sound and I'm pleased overall. Compared to my Note 3 (which I think sounds pretty good and had a hard time distinguishing from mobile/desktop USB DAC/amps in retail environments), the micro seems to have more clarity/coherence to the sound, and tighter imaging. The music is just more "present". Hard to say how much is expectation bias. I tried some non-blind ABing with my DT 1350s (Eco, High Sensitivity to get past the channel imbalance) and those were my impressions, as well as with ER-4Ps (Eco, Ultra).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Give the 3D some time . Granted, I was unsure on it to start, it seems bright, and I had to reduce the treble a little to compensate, but other than that it is very organic IMO. It gives a presentation more similar to speakers, which is ideal-as that's what music is almost always mixed for-and actually produces a real out of head soundstage. It also highlights details and gives instruments and female vocals a more realistic timbre. I can't listen to headphones without it now. Without it, music sounds dark, closed in, bland and flat. So give it some time, let your ears adjust and you should come to love it!


----------



## jexby

long time Octo iFi micro iDSD owner here, back to contribute a bit more in coming days about the iFi iPower.
 and also my impressions (not a review) of iDSD+iCAN+iTube trio with HE-560s.
  
 as to the 3D feature-
 find my preference for 3D being on (or off) really depends on the recording of the music, whether on full sized cans (HE-560s, HE-400i) or IEMs.
  
 with UM3X IEMs feel that 3D gives it a bit of treble lift and cohesiveness, even if the "middle" of the audio space (in front of my eyes/forehead) is increased a bit.
 open headphones that already have a more natural soundstage the 3D effect isn't always desirable.
  
 the same could be said with XBass IMO- really depends on the headphone or IEM pairing.
  
 to date, the iFi micro iDSD remains the most flexible piece of audio gear I've tried.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Give the 3D some time . Granted, I was unsure on it to start, it seems bright, and I had to reduce the treble a little to compensate, but other than that it is very organic IMO. It gives a presentation more similar to speakers, which is ideal-as that's what music is almost always mixed for-and actually produces a real out of head soundstage. It also highlights details and gives instruments and female vocals a more realistic timbre. I can't listen to headphones without it now. Without it, music sounds dark, closed in, bland and flat. So give it some time, let your ears adjust and you should come to love it!




Actually i felt the same about 3D, it felt bright, but it sounded more detailed  But i dont know if its real or not. I use iem match to calibrate the treble a bit. And at 12-3 clock it sounded good. But 3d off it sounded good to, the details were still there. 
Other option is put xbass of, but most of the cases leaving it on warms up the sound. My question is: which one is real? With acoustic music, 3d had a lot of separation but dont know if its real. With it off was good to.


----------



## Music Path

jexby said:


> long time Octo iFi micro iDSD owner here, back to contribute a bit more in coming days about the iFi iPower.
> and also my impressions (not a review) of iDSD+iCAN+iTube trio with HE-560s.
> 
> as to the 3D feature-
> ...




Where is your observation on idsd>itube>ican? On your he 560 review?

Thanks


----------



## jexby

music path said:


> Where is your observation on idsd>itube>ican? On your he 560 review?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 observations of the iFi trio are coming in the next few days.
  
 first need to do a small write up of the iFi iPower.....


----------



## Music Path

jexby said:


> observations of the iFi trio are coming in the next few days.
> 
> first need to do a small write up of the iFi iPower.....


 
 ok, let me notice then.
 cheers


----------



## KritiKal

jexby said:


> long time Octo iFi micro iDSD owner here, back to contribute a bit more in coming days about the iFi iPower.
> and also my impressions (not a review) of iDSD+iCAN+iTube trio with HE-560s.
> 
> as to the 3D feature-
> ...


 
  
 Admittedly, I no longer own a pair of over ear headphones, I only have IEM's these days. Perhaps that's why I regard it so highly.  I can certainly appreciate that with naturally staged headphones the 3D would not be so desirable.
  


music path said:


> Actually i felt the same about 3D, it felt bright, but it sounded more detailed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think that all the detail is there with the 3D off, but having it on just makes it more apparent, not to the point of the "faux-detail" that bright headphones give, it's quite organic to me and doesn't unearth anything new. Separation wise, I would call it real, but it ultimately depends on what is real to you. Is the way in which audio from loudspeakers reaches your ears real, or is the way in which audio from headphones-where none of the left channel's signal makes it to the right ear, and vice-versa-reaches your ears real? Ultimately, I would argue that the sound from loudspeakers is the more "real" sound, and that's what the 3D Holographic setting attempts to recreate, as well as doing a couple of other things too.


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Admittedly, I no longer own a pair of over ear headphones, I only have IEM's these days. Perhaps that's why I regard it so highly.  I can certainly appreciate that with naturally staged headphones the 3D would not be so desirable.
> 
> 
> I think that all the detail is there with the 3D off, but having it on just makes it more apparent, not to the point of the "faux-detail" that bright headphones give, it's quite organic to me and doesn't unearth anything new. Separation wise, I would call it real, but it ultimately depends on what is real to you. Is the way in which audio from loudspeakers reaches your ears real, or is the way in which audio from headphones-where none of the left channel's signal makes it to the right ear, and vice-versa-reaches your ears real? Ultimately, I would argue that the sound from loudspeakers is the more "real" sound, and that's what the 3D Holographic setting attempts to recreate, as well as doing a couple of other things too.


 
 I think it works well with iems and and open cans. (Not much with closed cans) In both a subtie change, but good chance. In open backs its get very speaker like. But yeah i think ultimatly hps want imitate studio speaker stages. Only thing in is the upper treeble, but i think its because i dont have non high quality more analog sounding tracks, orr maybie because idsd is tipe AB ss. Thats why i want test ican, especially i tube, if they can refine the treeble and make it good sounding as the rest. 

 But 3d is more complex then just raising the treble, it must have a purpose. I dont think its crossfeed, because its does the oposite of opening soundstage as i noted with fiio e12. So would like to use 3d to like xbass, which i m doing now. For me its sounds very full.


----------



## technobear

music path said:


> But 3d is more complex then just raising the treble, it must have a purpose. I dont think its crossfeed, because its does the oposite of opening soundstage as i noted with fiio e12. So would like to use 3d to like xbass, which i m doing now. For me its sounds very full.




Noting your comment about e12, remember that 3D through the RCA sockets is "3D Holographic for Speakers".

Only 3D through the headphone socket is "3D Holographic for Headphones".


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> Noting your comment about e12, remember that 3D through the RCA sockets is "3D Holographic for Speakers".
> 
> Only 3D through the headphone socket is "3D Holographic for Headphones".


 
 I m using with headphone socket, but thanks for info.


----------



## Dobrescu George

technobear said:


> Noting your comment about e12, remember that 3D through the RCA sockets is "3D Holographic for Speakers".
> 
> Only 3D through the headphone socket is "3D Holographic for Headphones".


 
 Interesting observations. I never knew that it was supposed to engage two different circuits, based on wether you use RCA out or headphone out; very intriguing.
  
 Does it sound better if you engage the 3D for speakers into another AMP?


----------



## senorx12562

dobrescu george said:


> Interesting observations. I never knew that it was supposed to engage two different circuits, based on wether you use RCA out or headphone out; very intriguing.
> 
> Does it sound better if you engage the 3D for speakers into another AMP?


 
 I only tried the 3d on setting once with speakers, and I hated it. Sounded very disjointed and sounded like it induced issues in timing. I never turn it or the Xbass off with 'phones tho.


----------



## Music Path

senorx12562 said:


> I only tried the 3d on setting once with speakers, and I hated it. Sounded very disjointed and sounded like it induced issues in timing. I never turn it or the Xbass off with 'phones tho.




For me 3d if well used, can be used as ear protection sistem, as allow you listening volume of 55-70db, measured with spl meter. You can get great detail, but none of it is made up. It is advisable tough to use 'save' usb filter mode and iem match (1st level) to make the sound a tad warmer and fuller. And then turn it max, 2pm. It wont get anoing for most of people i think. Oh yeah, dont forget to use it with xbass.


----------



## cute

Is anyone using iDSD with MC20 and Jplay?  If I choose Jplay ASIO driver, I get intermittent BSD or jRiver will intermittently stop playing.  If I use iFi by AMR HD USB Audio (ASIO), system appears more solid today.  Using Window 7 Home version on my HP Laptop, AMD 5500 processor.
  
 Anyone know of incompatibility with iDSD and Jplay?
  
 I am running Windows 8.1 on my Lenovo Desktop feeding iUSB to iLlink from USB , and no problems with Jplay, also AMD A8 5500 processor.


----------



## natra084

Hi I have quick question guys if I plug-in to the 3.5mm input jack can the micro play out from the RCA.


----------



## osiris1

natra084 said:


> Hi I have quick question guys if I plug-in to the 3.5mm input jack can the micro play out from the RCA.


 
 Nope, RCA is out only.


----------



## ebe2000

Yes





natra084 said:


> Hi I have quick question guys if I plug-in to the 3.5mm input jack can the micro play out from the RCA.



Yes. In this case you use amp section only


----------



## KritiKal

natra084 said:


> Hi I have quick question guys if I plug-in to the 3.5mm input jack can the micro play out from the RCA.




EDIT: Misread the question.

But, while I'm here, I believe it will, yes.


----------



## natra084

I think I need to explain it a little bit better I have connected my phone to the ifi to the 3.5mm input on the front of the device.
my question is now can I get the singal out from the RCA plugs on them back on the ifi.sorry for my bad english


----------



## senorx12562

cute said:


> Is anyone using iDSD with MC20 and Jplay?  If I choose Jplay ASIO driver, I get intermittent BSD or jRiver will intermittently stop playing.  If I use iFi by AMR HD USB Audio (ASIO), system appears more solid today.  Using Window 7 Home version on my HP Laptop, AMD 5500 processor.
> 
> Anyone know of incompatibility with iDSD and Jplay?
> 
> I am running Windows 8.1 on my Lenovo Desktop feeding iUSB to iLlink from USB , and no problems with Jplay, also AMD A8 5500 processor.


 
 I don't use Jplay, but JRiver specifically warns against using JRMC20 with Jplay, so it's not surprising you are having issues.


----------



## cute

senorx12562 said:


> cute said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone using iDSD with MC20 and Jplay?  If I choose Jplay ASIO driver, I get intermittent BSD or jRiver will intermittently stop playing.  If I use iFi by AMR HD USB Audio (ASIO), system appears more solid today.  Using Window 7 Home version on my HP Laptop, AMD 5500 processor.
> ...


 

 I have been using jRiver MC with Jplay for years with no problem, just since I got the iDSD has it been problematic.  jRiver and Jplay have been warring for years, just depends on what camp you are in whether you like it or not.  Jplay takes a more advanced computer user, so a lot of people give up on it, YMMV, but it works for me, guess I need to return the iDSD!


----------



## senorx12562

cute said:


> I have been using jRiver MC with Jplay for years with no problem, just since I got the iDSD has it been problematic.  jRiver and Jplay have been warring for years, just depends on what camp you are in whether you like it or not.  Jplay takes a more advanced computer user, so a lot of people give up on it, YMMV, but it works for me, guess I need to return the iDSD!


 
 I would suggest a customer support ticket with ifi. They are very helpful. Let us know what you find out. I seriously doubt that the iDSD is the source of the problem, but you never know.


----------



## natra084

natra084 said:


> I think I need to explain it a little bit better I have connected my phone to the ifi to the 3.5mm input on the front of the device.
> my question is now can I get the singal out from the RCA plugs on them back on the ifi.sorry for my bad english


does anybody know this question


----------



## ebe2000

second time: YES you can


----------



## natra084

How I've tried I cannot get any sound out to the amplifier only if I plug in my headphones directly to the ifi micro then I can get songs to the headphones.


----------



## ClieOS

natra084 said:


> How I've tried I cannot get any sound out to the amplifier only if I plug in my headphones directly to the ifi micro then I can get songs to the headphones.


 
  
 Look at the bottom of micro iDSD, near the RCA jack, switch from 'Direct' to 'Preamp'.


----------



## natra084

clieos said:


> Look at the bottom of micro iDSD, near the RCA jack, switch from 'Direct' to 'Preamp'.


 
 Thank you so much.


----------



## cute

clieos said:


> natra084 said:
> 
> 
> > How I've tried I cannot get any sound out to the amplifier only if I plug in my headphones directly to the ifi micro then I can get songs to the headphones.
> ...


 

 What is Direct setting for?


----------



## tf1216

cute,
  
 Fellow Minnesotan and another iFi guy.  I've had wonderful success using JRiver and JPlay.  However, I am still using MC19.
  
 The Direct setting outputs the maximum output voltage while disabling the volume control knob.


----------



## cute

tf1216 said:


> cute,
> 
> Fellow Minnesotan and another iFi guy.  I've had wonderful success using JRiver and JPlay.  However, I am still using MC19.
> 
> The Direct setting outputs the maximum output voltage while disabling the volume control knob.


 

 Howdy,  I live near Rochester, MN, going to be in for hip replacement surgery at Mayo Clinc, so I purchased the iDSD to run from my laptop for the three weeks that I'll be in.  Using iUSB and iLink feeding my full size DAC, but also MC20/Jplay 6, on Windows 8.1, never a BSOD, on my Desktop which has a faster processor.  Still working out the proper fit on my Laptop running Windows 7 with a slower processor.  Sometimes it needs just the right configuration, and I am new to Jplay 6, however I do get BSOD when using the iFi Driver ASIO, still in the testing process.  I eventually will try the iDSD on my full size system with the other iFi devices in the chain, and using my Denon AVR's and Kenzie amps.  Really like the sound of DSD!


----------



## tf1216

Have you tried JPLAYmini?  How about Bug Head Emperor?  Those might be worth a shot to make a more stable setup.
  
 Good luck with your hip replacement.


----------



## KritiKal

cute said:


> I have been using jRiver MC with Jplay for years with no problem, just since I got the iDSD has it been problematic.  jRiver and Jplay have been warring for years, just depends on what camp you are in whether you like it or not.  Jplay takes a more advanced computer user, so a lot of people give up on it, YMMV, but it works for me, guess I need to return the iDSD!




I'm using MC20 and I tried J Play, it doesn't work at all for me, can't even get it to show in J River. I looked in to it when I couldn't get it working, apparently J River have gone out of their way to ensure that J Play does not work with J River. I could be wrong but perhaps this is causing the issues. I'm guessing you're still able to access it in some way as it's from an earlier install. If the J River ASIO driver works then it's probably a software issue. Have you tried using the J Play "player" (can't remember the name), that could help narrow down the issue.


----------



## tf1216

kritikal said:


> I'm using MC20 and I tried J Play, it doesn't work at all for me, can't even get it to show in J River. I looked in to it when I couldn't get it working, apparently J River have gone out of their way to ensure that J Play does not work with J River. I could be wrong but perhaps this is causing the issues. I'm guessing you're still able to access it in some way as it's from an earlier install. If the J River ASIO driver works then it's probably a software issue. Have you tried using the J Play "player" (can't remember the name), that could help narrow down the issue.


 
 There has been hacks to allow JPlay to work.  Lots of reading on the JPlay forum.  JPlay 6 is worth the trouble to get running if you want to squeak out the best sound quality as possible.


----------



## cute

tf1216 said:


> Have you tried JPLAYmini?  How about Bug Head Emperor?  Those might be worth a shot to make a more stable setup.
> 
> Good luck with your hip replacement.


 

 I've used JPLAYmini, but I resample 16/44 to 176, JPLAYmini only supports 16/44.  I am using MC20 with Jplay 6 and DoP 2xDSD resampling, syslem seems more stable!  Makes my HE400 sound better than where I was with my HE6, and that is quite amazing!  Need to try with a better amp though!


----------



## cute

kritikal said:


> cute said:
> 
> 
> > I have been using jRiver MC with Jplay for years with no problem, just since I got the iDSD has it been problematic.  jRiver and Jplay have been warring for years, just depends on what camp you are in whether you like it or not.  Jplay takes a more advanced computer user, so a lot of people give up on it, YMMV, but it works for me, guess I need to return the iDSD!
> ...


 

 The updates to JRiver MC20 above 20.0.40 have disabled the JPLAY driver.  I just went back to 20.0.27, same as my older install, I disabled automatic updating two years ago because they always gave me something I didn't want. I'm fine with 20.0.27, won't give them any more of my money if they won't support JPLAY!


----------



## cute

tf1216 said:


> kritikal said:
> 
> 
> > I'm using MC20 and I tried J Play, it doesn't work at all for me, can't even get it to show in J River. I looked in to it when I couldn't get it working, apparently J River have gone out of their way to ensure that J Play does not work with J River. I could be wrong but perhaps this is causing the issues. I'm guessing you're still able to access it in some way as it's from an earlier install. If the J River ASIO driver works then it's probably a software issue. Have you tried using the J Play "player" (can't remember the name), that could help narrow down the issue.
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## KritiKal

tf1216 said:


> There has been hacks to allow JPlay to work.  Lots of reading on the JPlay forum.  JPlay 6 is worth the trouble to get running if you want to squeak out the best sound quality as possible.




I'll see what I can find, cheers.
Does JPkay bypass MC20's DSP though? There's a plug-in I use and can't really go without it.


----------



## tf1216

kritikal said:


> I'll see what I can find, cheers.
> Does JPkay bypass MC20's DSP though? There's a plug-in I use and can't really go without it.


 
  
 I believe it does but I am only making an assumption.  You could always test what you want to do with Foobar.  I believe it has some DSP functionality.


----------



## cute

kritikal said:


> tf1216 said:
> 
> 
> > There has been hacks to allow JPlay to work.  Lots of reading on the JPlay forum.  JPlay 6 is worth the trouble to get running if you want to squeak out the best sound quality as possible.
> ...


 

 I use JRiver DSP, preamp Equalizer setting to control clipping, Headphone settings for crossfeed, but no DSP works with Native DSD, I use DSP with DoP resampling settings!


----------



## technobear

cute said:


> Is anyone using iDSD with MC20 and Jplay?  If I choose Jplay ASIO driver, I get intermittent BSD or jRiver will intermittently stop playing.  If I use iFi by AMR HD USB Audio (ASIO), system appears more solid today.  Using Window 7 Home version on my HP Laptop, AMD 5500 processor.
> 
> Anyone know of incompatibility with iDSD and Jplay?
> 
> I am running Windows 8.1 on my Lenovo Desktop feeding iUSB to iLlink from USB , and no problems with Jplay, also AMD A8 5500 processor.




Is it possible that part of your problem could be with the iFi blue USB cable. Some of these are a bit flakey at the iDSD end. The plug doesn't make great contact with the socket so if the cable gets moved, the USB link drops and the music stops playing. 

I've had better results using the USB adaptor and a regular (albeit high quality) USB cable. This seems to give a better fit.

I've also found that nearby electrical disturbances can cause the iDSD to drop the USB link. For example, switching on the iCAN power adaptor sometimes causes the iDSD to drop the link. I then have to unplug and re-plug the USB cable. Switching on or off other devices in the vicinity can also cause this problem.

Can you try alternative cables?


----------



## cute

technobear said:


> cute said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone using iDSD with MC20 and Jplay?  If I choose Jplay ASIO driver, I get intermittent BSD or jRiver will intermittently stop playing.  If I use iFi by AMR HD USB Audio (ASIO), system appears more solid today.  Using Window 7 Home version on my HP Laptop, AMD 5500 processor.
> ...


 

 Tried other cables already......Audioquest Diamond, Kimber, Pure silver, etc, cable makes no difference, no BSOD with other USB devices.  I just think my laptop doesn't have enough processor power!


----------



## ClieOS

cute said:


> What is Direct setting for?


 
  
 For getting the line-out signal directly from the DAC section.


----------



## gixxerwimp

kritikal said:


> gixxerwimp said:
> 
> 
> > ... 3D has been disappointing so far, just sounds overly bright and weird.
> ...


 
  
 You were right. I've found that with standard mixes where instruments are placed individually across a stage, 3D opens things up and projects voices especially towards the front (as opposed to being inside the head). And it doesn't bring up the highs nearly as much with these kind of tracks. The first time I tried it, it was with a modern mix with all kinds of reverb and multi-voicing going on, so it sounded really weird. Guess the circuitry wasn't designed for that.
  
 I got 20 minutes of flashing red LED on Normal @ 12 o'clock before it shut down. Somebody mentioned "10%" when that starts happening. Based on 6 hrs @ Normal, that's only about 5%. Is that what others are getting?


----------



## KritiKal

gixxerwimp said:


> You were right. I've found that with standard mixes where instruments are placed individually across a stage, 3D opens things up and projects voices especially towards the front (as opposed to being inside the head). And it doesn't bring up the highs nearly as much with these kind of tracks. The first time I tried it, it was with a modern mix with all kinds of reverb and multi-voicing going on, so it sounded really weird. Guess the circuitry wasn't designed for that.
> 
> I got 20 minutes of flashing red LED on Normal @ 12 o'clock before it shut down. Somebody mentioned "10%" when that starts happening. Based on 6 hrs @ Normal, that's only about 5%. Is that what others are getting?




I've noticed that too. For me, it doesn't sound good with albums produced with the philosophy of a "wall of sound" in mind, particularly that effect with guitar. Having said that, I'm so used to this effect that if I have it off with these tracks I find it bland and the timbre unrealistic, so I need to keep it on! Before the iDSD though, I never found these albums to sound particularly great anyway.

It's quite ironic that as sound reproduction technology gets better, the music sounds worse!


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> I've noticed that too. For me, it doesn't sound good with albums produced with the philosophy of a "wall of sound" in mind, particularly that effect with guitar. Having said that, I'm so used to this effect that if I have it off with these tracks I find it bland and the timbre unrealistic, so I need to keep it on! Before the iDSD though, I never found these albums to sound particularly great anyway.
> 
> It's quite ironic that as sound reproduction technology gets better, the music sounds worse!




Noticed the same with 3d, or with the idsd in general. much detail enhancement, can destroy musicality sometimes. I took me one month to get my favorite signature config out of dsd, and still need to look some details.


Btw, i noticed that there is a way to get an extra boost on bass beyond the 3d, which is havong iem match 1st level at 1 - 2 pm volume, more or less same SPL then without this function. You get a cool extended bass with open cans like 650, but closed cans still have to look a way to mantain bass tight because it blurs it a bit.


----------



## jexby

Thanks to iFi UK and Avatar Acoustics (USA), I’ve been running the new
  iFi iPower (9V)  MSRP $50? USA
 through some equipment in the past weeks, and wanted to provide an overview.
  
 Caution:  this is NOT a complete review, nor an in depth audible “impact” report of iPower for reasons explained below.
  
 The iPower itself:
 When first announced it seemed a single iPower model might drive 5V/9V/12V, but this is not the case.
 Three individual iPower models will be available for order soon, and knowing what DC voltage your device requires is paramount before ordering the iPower in 5V/9V/12V.
  
 From the photo it’s obvious that the iPower is slightly larger than previous SMPS included with iFi (micro) product line, includes a removable plate for country specific prongs/outlets, and (not shown) a small (ferrite?) bead in the cable approx. 1 ft from the cable termination.
 Where and how the iPower reduces the audio noise floor is unknown to me, but there must be some mojo inside the wall wart itself.
 (Likely the 12 element output array)
  
 I was loaned an iPower 9V, which was perfect for iCan, iTube and my USB Regen.
  
 The Use cases:
 iFi units such as iCan and iTube had been shipping with the previous (but not sold separately AFAIK) iFi SMPS.
 with audio path being iMac—>Audirvana+—>iFi micro iDSD—>iTube (pre-amp)—>iCan—>HE-560
 I took turns swapping out the power supplies for both iTube and iCan, and replacing with the iFi iPower 9V.
  
 Summary of results:
 very hard to consistently notice audible changes when using iFi iPower 9V.
 at times, I could hear a tad better defined bass, or a more realistic cymbal brush.  but in a blind test not sure my ears could reproduce identification in all trials.
 I attribute this to a few things:
  a) my house/room has relatively decent power running out of the wall, and some previous “electrical noise cleaning” products have made no noticeable effect in my computer fed audio environment.
  b) the original iFi SMPS is already real good.  ie.  quiet.  (10uV)
  c) USB signal into micro iDSD is already “cleaned up” by it's built in iPurifier.  so maybe SMPS impact downstream on the analog devices is further minimized? (a guess)
  
  
 Onward:
 iFi iPower 9V
 +
 UpTone Audio USB Regen (Green, early model)
 the Regen is a new USB reclocker and power leg solution for USB fed DACs.
 Regen has impressed me for weeks now, can’t live without it.  Likely because a 2009 iMac is not the most pure USB output source.
 Regen delivers increased clarity and resolution while not losing PRaT or squashing depth of soundstage, which did happen a tad with a different USB re-clocker.
   
 Setup =
 iMac with Audirvana+ 2.10, Wireworld Starlight 7 USB cable to Regen to adapter into Gungnir, feeding Lyr 2 (Telefunken E88CC tubes) to HE-560 (YFS Super30 Litz cable and open grills).
  
 Spent at least 40min back and forth testing between
 Regen stock wall wart power SMPS

 vs.
 Regen using new (demo) iFi iPower 9V.
   
 It took awhile to nail down differences, which I suppose could be within error margins- but in the end my ears found Regen with iPower so slightly easier to notice and pick out details when instruments were layered on top of each other.  drum kit sounds had slightly better definition in space.

  
 Now Gungnir isn't the most micro detail delivering DAC, so slight improvements might apply differently to other rigs.
  
 putting subjective numbers on the audible differences, would give regular SMPS power Regen a 94.
 Regen with iPower a 97.
  Why no 100?
 Well I don't own a LPS, and figure that may inch quality up another couple notches? 

 And, nothing is perfect in this hobby right? Ha!
  
  
 Other iPower Uses:
 It was explained to me that other audio devices like Squeezbox, Sonos, etc would benefit more directly from clean iFi iPower, as consumer grade equipment does not pay close attention to SMPS impact on audio quality.
 alas, I scoured my house and didn’t find other 9V DC audio devices on which to test iFi iPower.
  
 IIRC, iFi will start including iPower with all NEW micro iFi purchases- meaning new customers will not need to spend additional $ to receive the quieter SMPS.
 With the affordable pricing, folks who might have questionable power in room, or travel staying at hotel rooms with (typically) worse power sources, or if you find numerous 5V/9V/12V DC fed audio devices around your house-  connecting the iFi iPower is certainly worth experimentation time and low cost.
  
  
 Next Up:
 Thoughts and summary of iTube+iCan, a combo first heard back at RMAF 2014 but not since.


----------



## Music Path

Next Up:
Thoughts and summary of iTube+iCan, a combo first heard back at RMAF 2014 but not since.


[/quote]

Looking forward  Great review !


----------



## kindonanjaya

why I have always been interested in comparing ifi with hugo, is it fair enough to compare ??


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Why not? In some terms the Hugo wins, in some terms the iDSD wins. Like the raw output power - easy win for the iDSD. But for best price/perfomance ratio the iDSD will always win in this case imho.


----------



## DonD

jexby said:


> putting subjective numbers on the audible differences, would give regular SMPS power Regen a 94.
> Regen with iPower a 97.


 
  
 Did you also compare the REGEN with the stock iFi power adapter? Where would that fit in the comparaison, below the regular REGEN SMPS or between it and the iPower?


----------



## jexby

dond said:


> Did you also compare the REGEN with the stock iFi power adapter? Where would that fit in the comparaison, below the regular REGEN SMPS or between it and the iPower?




Alas Nope, didn't do that comparison.
If time allows before my demo period is over I will try this.... no promises however.


----------



## Music Path

Did someone tested the idsd with optical fiber toslink cable? Suposly it has lower data loss then other cables(usb, rca etc.) I wonder how it performs. Anyway i m interested in the regen too.


----------



## iancraig10

I use it direct from the tv via toslink and it's really very good. One advantage is that in the UK, digital radio can be picked up via tv and our classical station, Radio 3 sounds excellent for some reason via the Ifi. Better than my radio. Better definition and just sounds less grainy.


----------



## Music Path

Can somebody explain me for what are the other usb streaming options are for? relaxed has more quality then save or extra safe. But browser gets a bit slower indeed. I mean if not used, they seem redundant.


----------



## jxhyde

is it possible to charge it and use it with an ordinary AC/DC wall power ?


----------



## Music Path

jxhyde said:


> is it possible to charge it and use it with an ordinary AC/DC wall power ?




Yes if they a 5V 2.1A usb plug integrated.


----------



## jxhyde

Thanks for this answer


----------



## KritiKal

jxhyde said:


> is it possible to charge it and use it with an ordinary AC/DC wall power ?






music path said:


> Yes if they a 5V 2.1A usb plug integrated.




Doesn't need to be 2.1A, just 5V (I'd say with a min of 500mA, which is pretty much every USB charger) through a USB A cable. Any old (or new) mobile phone USB wall wart will work.
You can charge it this way, but can't use it at the same time unless you use a split cable/adapter.


----------



## KritiKal

Double Post!


----------



## jxhyde

kritikal said:


> Doesn't need to be 2.1A, just 5V (I'd say with a min of 500mA, which is pretty much every USB charger) through a USB A cable. Any old (or new) mobile phone USB wall wart will work.
> You can charge it this way, but can't use it at the same time unless you use a split cable/adapter.


 
 and if i use coaxial or spdif at the same time i charge the idsd i hope it will works


----------



## Music Path

kritikal said:


> Doesn't need to be 2.1A, just 5V (I'd say with a min of 500mA, which is pretty much every USB charger) through a USB A cable. Any old (or new) mobile phone USB wall wart will work.
> You can charge it this way, but can't use it at the same time unless you use a split cable/adapter.




Correct, but he refered AC adapter, they have more power output. Thech suport informed me to not use more then 
2.4 A, because it would be to much.
But in reality, blue cable is enough, when always conected, it barely discherges. Eco, normal mode. Turbo not much too. So usb port 3.0, is very good already.


----------



## gixxerwimp

My new ZMF Blackwoods (T50RP drivers) sound great out of the micro IDSD, Musicality, imaging, punchiness, and sparkle get taken up another notch compared to my Note 3 and iPad2. Power on Normal (IEMatch off, obviously) has the volume knob at 10-11 o'clock for moderate levels and 12-1 o'clock for LOUD.
  
 My Note 3 attaches to the top of the micro nicely with 3M SJ4570 low profile dual lock tape and phone cover. I just pop the phone in when I want to use it. Without the rubber feet, my unit doesn't lie flat (out by 0.5mm), but with the feet it's fine. Loosening the screws on the endplates and pressing down on it while retightening them didn't help.


----------



## KritiKal

music path said:


> Correct, but he refered AC adapter, they have more power output. Thech suport informed me to not use more then
> 2.4 A, because it would be to much.
> But in reality, blue cable is enough, when always conected, it barely discherges. Eco, normal mode. Turbo not much too. So usb port 3.0, is very good already.




I was also talking about an AC/DC converter.

jxhyde Yes, it should charge just fine via USB while using S/PDIF.


----------



## KritiKal

gixxerwimp said:


> My new ZMF Blackwoods (T50RP drivers) sound great out of the micro IDSD, Musicality, imaging, punchiness, and sparkle get taken up another notch compared to my Note 3 and iPad2. Power on Normal (IEMatch off, obviously) has the volume knob at 10-11 o'clock for moderate levels and 12-1 o'clock for LOUD.
> 
> My Note 3 attaches to the top of the micro nicely with 3M SJ4570 low profile dual lock tape and phone cover. I just pop the phone in when I want to use it. Without the rubber feet, my unit doesn't lie flat (out by 0.5mm), but with the feet it's fine. Loosening the screws on the endplates and pressing down on it while retightening them didn't help.




Clever idea, thank you!
My volume pot is quite skewed, but fortunately it still works alright. I waited a long time for the vendor to ship my iDSD and if I wasn't worried that I would have to wait the same time again, I would have sent it back for a repair/replacement.

While on the topic of these kind of tricks, I have a pencil eraser (from the top of a refillable pencil) in the gap for the gain switch to stop it from being slid up when taking it in/out of my pocket. I simply cut it down to size with a razor and made sure it wasn't pushing hard-up against the switch.


----------



## Textfeud

Just got the iFi Micro iDSD today and it sounds great. Using it as a standalone DAC with my Schiit Lyr. I have some (probably stupid) questions.
  
 Does the iFi Micro iDSD have a USB 3.0 connection? I used the adapter that came with it to hook my normal USB cable to the Micro. Will I benefit from buying a Audioquest 3.0 cable to replace my normal Audioquest A-B usb cable?
  
 Do the 3D and Xbass effects work when it operates as a standalone DAC? Have tried it but I'm pretty far from the DAC so it's hard to tell if it works or not. Don't have my headphones on when I switch them on and not familiar with the soundsignature yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  (but I don't hear difference as far as I can tell).


----------



## maricius

textfeud said:


> Just got the iFi Micro iDSD today and it sounds great. Using it as a standalone DAC with my Schiit Lyr. I have some (probably stupid) questions.
> 
> Does the iFi Micro iDSD have a USB 3.0 connection? I used the adapter that came with it to hook my normal USB cable to the Micro. Will I benefit from buying a Audioquest 3.0 cable to replace my normal Audioquest A-B usb cable?
> 
> ...


 

 The 3D and XBass from the RCA outs were designed with speakers in mind  I tried it before with headphones and an intermediary headamp. Results weren't good. If you seriously feel the need to use the 3D or XBass feature with headphones but with an external amp, I would prefer double amping.


----------



## Textfeud

maricius said:


> The 3D and XBass from the RCA outs were designed with speakers in mind  I tried it before with headphones and an intermediary headamp. Results weren't good. If you seriously feel the need to use the 3D or XBass feature with headphones but with an external amp, I would prefer double amping.


 
 Yeah don't really care about it, but it's normal that those features don't work in direct mode when you use a other amp?
  
 I also have active speakers (have them hooked on the preamp of the Lyr). Can I use it then? Or do I have to put it in preamp mode (but then you get double preamping, right?)


----------



## earwaxxer

I'm finally getting around to commenting on the iFi iDSD micro. I have both the Micro and the Nano. The Nano is impressive in its own right for less than 200 slams, but the Micro gives what I experienced as an honest view into ultra high end digital audio. I have not had the occasion to hear the likes of EMM, etc, so I cant pretend to know what the ultra high end actually sounds like in my system. This little DAC sounds SO good that I feel that I have been blessed with a TASTE of what those folks with means will obtain for their $100K works of art. That was my initial first impression and I still appreciate that now after 20 hours or so of listening. Second - I really like having the choice of filters etc. Very well done. They do make a difference in the sound. With my Maggies that is HUGELY appreciated due to the nature of the planar highs etc. (if you know horns then you know what I'm talking about). 
  
 More specifically about the SOUND. Its hard to describe because it has so many great qualities, it seems wrong to analyse it. But here goes.... First - musical, well defined and spacious. Piano sounds like the instrument, etc, etc. As far as jitter I would say its a non issue. It seems like we will all stop talking about jitter at some stage if DAC's cont to progress like this one has. CD resolution music sounds... well GOOD! I havent experienced that with any DAC to date. Redbook has always been a trade off for me. Convenience and great transients and dynamics, but not REAL musical. Again, this DAC will change what people think about digital. Its that good. For under half a $K its really a GREAT buy. Other high end kit makers should use this as an example. You could get hung up on the compromises they had to have to pack it all in a small form factor. No biggie. For those of us that will probably never own a $5K DAC, this puppy is a no brainer.


----------



## kuekwee

I like iFi micro so much, it have no problem playing DSD at all, before that i was using Cayin N6, sometime it cant play ISO DSD. On top of that i was using HD800 even Cayin N6 that claim have 13op amp can't drive it properly. With micro no problem at even, i even try it on Beyer T1(loan from cousin) it work like charm.  I did audit Hugo Chord but the price blow me away.  Btw is there any firmware update for micro?


----------



## maricius

textfeud said:


> Yeah don't really care about it, but it's normal that those features don't work in direct mode when you use a other amp?
> 
> I also have active speakers (have them hooked on the preamp of the Lyr). Can I use it then? Or do I have to put it in preamp mode (but then you get double preamping, right?)


 

 1. yeah it's normal if the sound is weird
 2. yeah double pre-amping
  
 you can max out the volume pot of the iDSD when on pre-amp and "Eco" That's essentially the same 2V as from Direct with just a slight degradation of quality


----------



## technobear

textfeud said:


> Yeah don't really care about it, but it's normal that those features don't work in direct mode when you use a other amp?
> 
> I also have active speakers (have them hooked on the preamp of the Lyr). Can I use it then? Or do I have to put it in preamp mode (but then you get double preamping, right?)




Headphone Out:

XBASS works

3D Holographic for Headphones works


RCA Out - Direct Mode:

No XBASS

No 3D


RCA Out - Preamp Mode:

XBASS works

3D Holographic for Speakers works


You cannot get 3D for Headphones from the RCA outputs. If you want to use an external headphone amp and still get 3D for Headphones, you should buy a micro iCAN.


----------



## Textfeud

technobear said:


> Headphone Out:
> 
> XBASS works
> 
> ...





Thanks man, that helps! My setup is pretty complex. I want to listen both digital (dac) as analogue (turntable) through my headphones and active speakers. The iCAN doesn't offer enough inputs, so I'll just keep it the way it is with the Lyr  I'm happy the way it sounds now with the Micro anyways!


----------



## Textfeud

Okay, having a bit of an issue with the Micro. I can't seem to play any 24/48, 24/96 or 24/192 files on Audirvana with the Micro. I don't get sound or I get sound from one channel if I'm lucky. 16/44.1 works like a charm. Any solutions?


----------



## HPiper

gixxerwimp said:


> My new ZMF Blackwoods (T50RP drivers) sound great out of the micro IDSD, Musicality, imaging, punchiness, and sparkle get taken up another notch compared to my Note 3 and iPad2. Power on Normal (IEMatch off, obviously) has the volume knob at 10-11 o'clock for moderate levels and 12-1 o'clock for LOUD.
> 
> My Note 3 attaches to the top of the micro nicely with 3M SJ4570 low profile dual lock tape and phone cover. I just pop the phone in when I want to use it. Without the rubber feet, my unit doesn't lie flat (out by 0.5mm), but with the feet it's fine. Loosening the screws on the endplates and pressing down on it while retightening them didn't help.


 
 Where did you get that little connector cable you are using between the two units? I need to get something like that too.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Its a generic regular micro USB OTG cable (L shaped jack), mostly between 6 to 10 cm long (costs 5 to 10 EURO). You can buy on all shops you want.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *HPiper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Where did you get that little connector cable you are using between the two units? I need to get something like that too.


 
  
 As *h1f1add1cted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif said, it's a generic OTG cable I picked up at the big electronics market we have here in Taipei. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guang_Hua_Digital_Plaza
 It took me a while to find a store that had cables with L-shaped micro USB connectors. I think it's pretty much identical to this and most others on Amazon.
 http://www.amazon.com/niceeshop-Degree-Female-Converter-Adaptor/dp/B00871Q5PI/
  
 My searches have come up with nothing for a similar cable with L-shaped connectors on both ends (male-to-males exist, but not the male-to-female the micro needs). I work at a computer company and a colleague sourced some female USB 2.0 upright SMT sockets that I'm going to use to convert the female end to L-shape, so I don't have to worry about stressing the cable, or bumping it loose. I've seen heat shrink elbow boots on industrial websites, but I doubt I could get just a few for a reasonable price. So I'll probably finish it off with a hot glue and cloth tape.


----------



## gr8soundz

gixxerwimp said:


> As *h1f1add1cted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif said, it's a generic OTG cable I picked up at the big electronics market we have here in Taipei. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guang_Hua_Digital_Plaza
> It took me a while to find a store that had cables with L-shaped micro USB connectors. I think it's pretty much identical to this and most others on Amazon.
> http://www.amazon.com/niceeshop-Degree-Female-Converter-Adaptor/dp/B00871Q5PI/
> 
> My searches have come up with nothing for a similar cable with L-shaped connectors on both ends (male-to-males exist, but not the male-to-female the micro needs). I work at a computer company and a colleague sourced some female USB 2.0 upright SMT sockets that I'm going to use to convert the female end to L-shape, so I don't have to worry about stressing the cable, or bumping it loose. I've seen heat shrink elbow boots on industrial websites, but I doubt I could get just a few for a reasonable price. So I'll probably finish it off with a hot glue and cloth tape.


 
  
 THIS!
  
 I searched for weeks also looking for a (non-existent) short OTG cable with angled female usb connector. Ended up going with one similar to gixxer's.
  
 If you are successful in stabilizing the the cable I'd be very interested in getting one from you.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *gr8soundz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> THIS!
> 
> I searched for weeks also looking for a (non-existent) short OTG cable with angled female usb connector. Ended up going with one similar to gixxer's.
> ...


 
  
 I have several. Will probably want to hang onto a few spare, but if it works out, I can send you one, sure. Will post my results within the next few weeks and you can remind me then.
  
 Living in Taiwan can be a pain (it's like 80°C and 1000% humidity now, don't get me started about traffic and elevator etiquette), but working in hi-tech here does have it's perks.


----------



## DougD

Using JRiver MC20 and a std desktop PC, I get a constant series of highly annoying crackles and dropouts when my Micro iDSD is connected via USB in the conventional way. No amount of fiddling with MC20 settings seems to cure this, and re-installing the iFi Audio drivers hasn't helped. (However, I did not have this problem for the first few months.) 
  
 The same tunes, played directly via DAP --> headphones, or DAP --> iDSD --> headphones, have no problems. That rules out the music files as being the cause of the problem.
  
 Interestingly, going from JRMC-20 --> my Yamaha AVR --> the Stax h/p also has no problems ... and that's an ethernet connection. That would seem to rule out JRMC and its settings as being the cause of the problem. 
  
 So my conclusion is that my desktop PC is just a swirling cesspool of (USB) noise and/or some latency issues and/or driver issues I can't figure out ... and I'm wondering if routing the signal to the iDSD via ethernet wouldn't be a cunning way of just finessing that cluster problem entirely. 
  
 I googled for ethernet-to-USB adapter, and found lots of things like this ...Anker-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter ... and was wondering if anyone else has already tried this kind of a solution for an audio connection to an external DAC.


----------



## technobear

dougd said:


> Using JRiver MC20 and a std desktop PC, I get a constant series of highly annoying crackles and dropouts when my Micro iDSD is connected via USB in the conventional way.




First thing to check is the iFi Audio USB Driver settings:


----------



## DougD

technobear said:


> First thing to check is the iFi Audio USB Driver settings:


 
  
 That's what I have. The sample rate varies of course, depending on what's being played.


----------



## rickyleelee

Hey you ruled out the micro dsd, the music file. Likely down to the computer or usb cable. usually the driver and j rivers installs fine. No need to mess. maybe useful or useless. Try latency checker. too on your computer

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


----------



## DougD

rickyleelee said:


> Hey you ruled out the micro dsd, the music file. Likely down to the computer or usb cable. usually the driver and j rivers installs fine. No need to mess. maybe useful or useless. Try latency checker. too on your computer
> 
> http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


 
  
 Well that is .... interesting. 
  
 On my machine, EVERY test bar using the DPC Latency Checker is over 8000 us, and some spike over 16000. Going by the color-coding that 500 us is green/good (for hi qual/realtime audio) and 1000 us is yellow/marginal, my readings are waaaay into red/seriously-lousy territory.
  
 It will take me a while to try to isolate the cause of the slowness, but this is very useful info.
  
 Thanks for the suggestion, rickyleelee.


----------



## john57

That is a very bad latency value. Myself I get about 22ms. One of of the tools I use is msconfig and use the diagnostic mode. Run the DPC Latency Checker and see if it will improve. I then add things back until I find the service that is hogging the bandwidth.


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> First thing to check is the iFi Audio USB Driver settings:


 
  


dougd said:


> That's what I have. The sample rate varies of course, depending on what's being played.


 
 They say to use safe or extra safe, but relaxed works very well too, thigt bass and vivid. But if you lower latency further it can make crackles with the sound depending on buffer size and pc performance. 
 Sample rates should idealy be beetwen 48000 and 96000. After that its unecessary. No audible gain. 192k hurts even. Not very good.


----------



## mogulmaster

Are the "power modes" on here gain essentially?


----------



## Music Path

mogulmaster said:


> Are the "power modes" on here gain essentially?


 
 Yes


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *gr8soundz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> THIS!
> 
> I searched for weeks also looking for a (non-existent) short OTG cable with angled female usb connector. Ended up going with one similar to gixxer's.
> ...


 
  
 Didn't think I'd get to this for a while, but I was bored at work on Friday afternoon and started playing with the USB socket. First, I popped the cover off the back and trimmed and bent in all pokey bits.

  
 Then stripped the "straight" female USB socket off my cable, measured it up against the micro iDSD, and cut a shallow notch so the edge of the socket would kind of "mortise" into the cable.

  
 I'm really crappy at soldering, but all the connections checked out OK.

  
 Used a glue gun to fill in the gaps and layer up a "blob", then trimmed it down to form a grip.


  
 Used photographer's gaffer tape to finish it off.




  
 It works out well that I can see the light from the LED coming out through the USB socket, since my phone covers it up.
  
 I think a cable like this should come stock with the micro iDSD. Are you listening?


> *iFi audio*


  
 This looks very similar to my connector.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-A-female-side-plug-90-Short-Body-Type-A-USB-socket-is-inserted-bead-pendant/32374066178.html
  
 Here's a USB 3.0 version, but I think it's too long and awkward to be very useable.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-3-0-Type-A-female-socket-USB-A-F-90-degrees-side-plug-order/1848566913.html
  
  
 @*gr8soundz*: PM me your address and I'll send you a couple. I'll still have 2 left over for myself to make replacements if this one dies.


----------



## RadioWonder737

john57 said:


> That is a very bad latency value. Myself I get about 22ms. One of of the tools I use is msconfig and use the diagnostic mode. Run the DPC Latency Checker and see if it will improve. I then add things back until I find the service that is hogging the bandwidth.


 
 Excellent information at the software website... Things to disable and things to never disable were especially interesting... 
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


----------



## gr8soundz

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






gixxerwimp said:


> Didn't think I'd get to this for a while, but I was bored at work on Friday afternoon and started playing with the USB socket. First, I popped the cover off the back and trimmed and bent in all pokey bits.
> 
> 
> Then stripped the "straight" female USB socket off my cable, measured it up against the micro iDSD, and cut a shallow notch so the edge of the socket would kind of "mortise" into the cable.
> ...


 
  


  
 Nice work Gixxer.
  
 That's *exactly* how I imagined an otg cable on my micro since I bought it. Should give me the extra inch clearance I need to better fit my Note3/Micro rig in the case I got for it.
  
 Really hope iFi is listening
  
 PM sent!


----------



## Soulrave

So my ifi idsd suddenly wont work with my iphone, when i plug it in the LED indicator just turns white and the music plays on my iphone speakers.
  
 Tried it with my friend's iphone and still same problem. 
  
 When I tried plugging it in my desktop pc and my laptop via the provided usb cable, the indicator led also turns white but it doesn't get detected by my desktop and laptop. Tried installing the ifi drivers but it gives the error "setup requires device is plugged in. please connect the device etc etc etc".
  
 Everything else works btw, just the usb input. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

mogulmaster said:


> Are the "power modes" on here gain essentially?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The power modes do not only change gain.
  
 They also change the power supply voltages to the power amplifier and analogue stages and as a result the quiescent current and power consumption.
  
 Normal mode in essence was designed to emulate the iCAN micro set to middle gain. This means +/-9V power supplies and around 5.5V maximum output.
  
 In Eco mode the power supplies are lowered to around +/-5V to save power while in Turbo mode they are boosted to +/-16V to maximise drive power fordifficult headphones.
  
 The current consumption (and thus Class A power) of the power amp also varies with supply voltage, drawing less current at lower power supply voltages, so also a bit less power in Class A.
  
 So nope, not gain only change.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iancraig10

Is there any audible effect when power is changed? This may be placebo, but for some reason, I think my hd650 sounds slightly better on turbo than normal. Perhaps a little more dynamic; especially with hi resolution files.

Of course it's totally subjective and could be due perhaps to volume change, although (obviously) I have to lower it a great deal.

For some reason, I feel that the Senn is more lively on the higher setting.


----------



## iFi audio

iancraig10 said:


> Is there any audible effect when power is changed? This may be placebo, but for some reason, I think my hd650 sounds slightly better on turbo than normal. Perhaps a little more dynamic; especially with hi resolution files.
> 
> Of course it's totally subjective and could be due perhaps to volume change, although (obviously) I have to lower it a great deal.
> 
> For some reason, I feel that the Senn is more lively on the higher setting.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes for sure because it is about the micro DSD & headphone matching.
  
 Take for example the Remiyo PAT-777 which is a 300B power amplifier. If it was paired with a pair of Magico Q1s, then this combination would sound dull and lifeless.  Neither the PAT-777 nor the Q1s are poor products. Far from it in fact.
  
 It is just a simple matter of 7W+7W into 86dB sensitivity speakers being a poor match.
  
 The same principle applies to any amplifier & heaphones.
  
  
 For example, the HD650 being an average-ish sensitivity headphone would not "sing" if it ran in Eco mode. We would recommend trying
  
 1) Normal + iEMatch off
 or
 2) Turbo + High-Sensitivity
  
 Ideally get the listening level to 3 o clock is when the matching is for us (the least resistance, hence the most resolution/dynamics), the most ideal. For us, anything <12 o clock is not ideal. Where the volume position is, does not reflect the power.
  
 A lot of people say when the loudness of an amplifier goes to 12 o clock, it has a lot of power. This just isn't the case.


----------



## iancraig10

Thanks for your reply. On Turbo, I'd be lucky to reach 10 o clock, but to me it soumds a little 'fruitier'. It does seem dull on low but I thought that perhaps it's just an 'aural' illusion because of volume matching or something.

I like turbo a lot but it is very loud for the Hd650.


----------



## iFi audio

iancraig10 said:


> Thanks for your reply. On Turbo, I'd be lucky to reach 10 o clock, but to me it soumds a little 'fruitier'. It does seem dull on low but I thought that perhaps it's just an 'aural' illusion because of volume matching or something.
> 
> I like turbo a lot but it is very loud for the Hd650.


 
  
  
 Sure thing.
  
 But make the iEMatch earn its corn.


----------



## Triodemode

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The power modes do not only change gain.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you iFi for this technical explanation on how the mode switch works.  Just for clarification, what mode will bring the amplifier closest to class A operation ECO or NORMAL?


----------



## Music Path

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes for sure because it is about the micro DSD & headphone matching.
> 
> ...




You guys sad turbo was to much, i even made a car analogy. I never tried turbo with high sensetivity. I m using it with normal plus 1st level of sensetivity. It makes the sound fuller and more bass.

3o Clock is quite loud :S

I listen at 2pm, and it reaches 70db easly.


----------



## iancraig10

ifi audio said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> But make the iEMatch earn its corn.




Of course..... I'm going daft!!!

I've only used iem match on low power and never used it with turbo. The fruitiness remains, but the iem match controls where the vol pot rests. What a great tip. I love this amp. It really is excellent.

Many thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> Thank you iFi for this technical explanation on how the mode switch works.  Just for clarification, what mode will bring the amplifier closest to class A operation ECO or NORMAL?


 
  
  
  
*Class A has to be all the way* (at least for us!)
  
 The micro iDSD runs in Class A but not for the lion's share due to demands placed upon it due to its battery/portability. In theory, one could label their battery amp as Class A but for us, R&D over-ruled Marketing.
  
  
 Fundamentally, whether or not an amplifier stays in Class A or ventures into Class AB territory, depends upon two factors:
  
*1. Output Power (read: Watts output)*
 eg a specific Luxman amplifier is rated at Class A at 60W, yet it easily outputs triple that power to 250W, but the extra power is in Class AB, not Class A.
  
*2. Impedance (read: Headphone Load) *
 eg with the OPA1642, a 10k (RCA) versus 600 ohm (headphone) load gives different levels of Class A and Class AB.
  
 The following graphs depict Class A and Class AB .
  
 This is how Class A runs.                                                                              

 and this is how Class AB runs.

  Note that the second graph, the ‘Class AB’ there is a certain percentage that it runs in ‘Class A’ mode.
  
  
 A summary table is provided below.
  

 *OPA1642*
  
 No Signal Power Consumption 0.09W
  
  
  
  
  
 Line Out
  
 Class A
 Class AB
 Class A of Class AB
 imax
 0.0014
 max Vout 
 max Vout 
  
  
  
 Volt
 Volt
  
 600 Ohm load
  
 0.84
 5.5
 15%
 10k Ohm Load
  
 5.5
 5.5
 100%

  

For further reading:
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/amplifier/amplifier-classes.html
  
  
 There is a further 'factor x' which the micro iCAN is endowed with that differentiates its from other Class A mains-powered headphone amps (so it is sounds sweeter than not just the micro iDSD but also other headphones amps). That is the more significant reason why people like it so much.


----------



## Music Path

ifi audio said:


> *Class A has to be all the way* (at least for us!)
> 
> The micro iDSD runs in Class A but not for the lion's share due to demands placed upon it due to its battery/portability. In theory, one could label their battery amp as Class A but for us, R&D over-ruled Marketing.
> 
> ...




Interesting graphs, but i must say that hd650 with turbo plus sensetivity got distortion. 

Best conf. For those who have 300ohm hps is normal with sensetivity at 2 pm.

It sounds smooth.


----------



## mogulmaster

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes for sure because it is about the micro DSD & headphone matching.
> 
> ...


 

 Which settings do you recommend for LCDX?


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *iFi audio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> For example, the HD650 being an average-ish sensitivity headphone would not "sing" if it ran in Eco mode. We would recommend trying
> 
> 1) Normal + iEMatch off
> ...


 
  
 This is very helpful. My ZMF Blackwoods (T50RP drivers) barely get to 10 o'clock on Normal for low/moderate listening levels, but don't sound as punchy on Eco, which lets me go to around 12 o'clock. I hadn't thought of using IEMatch on anything other than Eco. Will try Normal and Turbo at different sensitivities at home tonight.


----------



## iancraig10

For some reason, that's exactly what I was doing. It had never occurred to me to try the iem match on higher power levels either, but it does work and now I can listen easily to the Senn on turbo and the sound is beautifully lively.

I thought it was my imagination tbh that the sound was less vibrant with the hd650 on eco so have never mentioned it until the issue of power came up here.


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> This is very helpful. My ZMF Blackwoods (T50RP drivers) barely get to 10 o'clock on Normal for low/moderate listening levels, but don't sound as punchy on Eco, which lets me go to around 12 o'clock. I hadn't thought of using IEMatch on anything other than Eco. Will try Normal and Turbo at different sensitivities at home tonight.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Generally speaking:
  
 - Eco is for IEMs
 - Normal is for medium sensitivity headphones like T50RPs and LCDs
 - Turbo is for hungry hippo headphones like HE-6
  
 Then up to the user to use iEMatch to dial-in to get the listening level to 3 o clock.
  
 It is not our personal recommendation to use Turbo with iEMatch but some people like it.
  
 This is the whole point of the micro iDSD, users are able to dial-in to suit.
  
 We just exhibited at the NorthWest Audio the past weekend and during setup, we had the nano iCAN on 6dB gain which was waaayyyyy too much for our demo Audio Techncia MSR7s and NAD VISOs. We quickly plomked it back on 0dB Gain so that customers could use the volume control.


----------



## iFi audio

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Generally speaking:
> 
> ...


----------



## iFi audio

mogulmaster said:


> Which settings do you recommend for LCDX?


 
  
 We demo with the LCD-2 and LCD-X and the the Audeze team have a few micro iDSDs. Contrastingly, Abyss only use with Turbo and iEMatch off (obviously!).
  
 Most of the time, they and us tend to use 'Normal' with iEMatch off (or high-sensitivity, varies with types of music).
  
 But if you listen to a lot of louder, compressed stuff, on occassion, you may wish to try Eco.
  
 Always try to get the listening level past 12 and more to 3 o' clock using a combination of Power/iEMatch.
  
 Like this chart.


----------



## gixxerwimp

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Generally speaking:
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK. But based on your diagram, it seems that you only recommend IEMatch with Eco mode. So it might be something you want to clarify in your literature.


----------



## iancraig10

That's exactly how I understood it from the diagram. I never even considered using ie match on normal or even turbo!! It makes the amp a great deal more useable with such a wide variation of sensitivities in headphones.

Ifi Audio have explained it way better here than on the leaflet.


----------



## iFi audio

iancraig10 said:


> That's exactly how I understood it from the diagram. I never even considered using ie match on normal or even turbo!! It makes the amp a great deal more useable with such a wide variation of sensitivities in headphones.
> 
> Ifi Audio have explained it way better here than on the leaflet.


 
  
 Hi all.
  
 The iEMatch is not recommend per se in Turbo. But it can be used if so wished.
  
 But consider that the iEMatch circuit was not designed for 4W – so not ideally suited to this level of large power. Turbo ‘does what it says on the tin’ so please no sinewave testing in this combination as things can go funky.
  
 It should also be noted that engaging iEMatch drops the power that is available in Class A to 1/16'th of that available without iEMatch, so iEMatch essentially kills the available class A power. As Class A generally offers lower distortion, engaging iEMatch if not needed will raise distortion for a given playback level.
  
 The attenuation steps of iEMatch are about the same 12dB per position as the gain settings, so at least for gain/volume position iEMatch Off and Eco is pretty much the same as iEMatch on Ultra and Turbo.
  
*Case 1 (iEMatch Off/Eco)* - the power consumption is low, the Power stage does works very hard and will have around 20mA peak current in Class A and will likely have quite low distortion. Some might find the resulting sound "clinical", when in fact it is simply clean.
  
*Case 2 (iEMatch Ultra/Turbo)* - the power consumption will be high and the amplifier will be made to work rather hard, Class A current will be cut by a factor of 16 (though Turbo has around 30mA peak in Class A without iEMatch) to less than 2mA and it will distort a lot. As its distortion characteristic is rather "tube like" however (low order harmonics and even order dominant), some may perfer the sound with more distortion added.
  
 Not our place to dictate, but when combining iEMatch and Turbo, please go easy on the volume levels and avoid driving the Amp into distortion. Neither your ears nor your micro will thank you.
  
 If you prefer to have the clearest sound and most Class A power from the iDSD micro, use the least amount of iEMatch attenuation you can get away with (and go for _lower as opposed to higher_, power setting).
  
  
  
 With regards to the graphic, at the outset, we tried to make it simple otherwise there are waaaay too many options with the micro iDSD. And this is just the setting for headphones!


----------



## iancraig10

Thanks for that explanation. It really makes sense now.

Taking the hd650 out with a short lead into the garden with the Ifi gives an incredible 'portable' sound. Nothing like it!!


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *iFi audio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> *Case 1 (iEMatch Off/Eco)* - the power consumption is low, the Power stage does works very hard and will have around 20mA peak current in Class A and will likely have quite low distortion. Some might find the resulting sound "clinical", when in fact it is simply clean.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for this and all your previous explanations. And for making such an innovative and functional product! The learning curve is steeper than usual with all the options, so it's understandable to simplify that graphic.
  
 Out of curiosity, what is the situation with amp for *Case 3: iEMatch High/Normal*?


----------



## Mr Creosote

Spoke to some other manufacturers and distributors at a headphone show and they said they read what iFi writes on head fi – it goes to show we all learn something new, on technology and not just get spoon fed the “this chip or that chip is the best” usual tripe you often read.
  
 Nice one Fi!


----------



## Music Path

gixxerwimp said:


> Thanks for this and all your previous explanations. And for making such an innovative and functional product! The learning curve is steeper than usual with all the options, so it's understandable to simplify that graphic.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is the situation with amp for *Case 3: iEMatch High/Normal*?



+1

I use this settings for hd650. The second option gets a lot of distortion for me.

But i'm getting confused now with all those explanations, for me isnt that clear...


----------



## DonD

gixxerwimp said:


> Thanks for this and all your previous explanations. And for making such an innovative and functional product! The learning curve is steeper than usual with all the options, so it's understandable to simplify that graphic.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is the situation with amp for *Case 3: iEMatch High/Normal*?


 
  
 +1

 And as well have any of those settings/combinations an influence of any sort on the RCA output in direct or pre-amp mode?


----------



## Triodemode

To my ears ECO with ie match off sounds best with both my HD650 and R70x.  This is likely due to the fact that the micro operates in class A longer than normal mode with ie match engaged.  BTW, normal listening level in this mode is also around 3'oclock as iFi recommends.


----------



## iancraig10

I'll give that a go!


----------



## mogulmaster

Yeah to my ears with the LCD-X, the sound is best in either ECO or normal with IEMatch off. But every power setting sounds quite similar.
  
 Also to my ears, I can't even get the volume to 3 o'clock on ECO. I think it is extremely loud at 3 haha, but I do listen to a lot of compressed music (electronic, indie-pop). 
  
 Thanks for the help iFi.


----------



## Music Path

Ok, i m not expert in this subject of audio. I wish i could be... 
  
 Yes, Eco / Iem match off sounds better then other options, but ifi still uses a slight distortion when using extra safe latency.
  
 Right behind is Normal/high on with relaxeed or lower latency for me... You add distortion one side and then lower it on the other side.
  
 Turbo is too muchh power for the 650s.
  
  
 The question is:what about <50 ohm Hps and for those who have 600 ohm hps... how to we get class A quality?
  
 So what are the best configurations for all hps in general?
  
 I mean hearing is not that diferent from person to person, must have some broader and simpler solution. Or you are never certain if are getting the best of your equipment.
  
 Constantly going back and forth..
  
  
  
  
 Sorry for my not so good english... i noticed with time that most people of this forum are native english speakers.


----------



## iFi audio

music path said:


> Ok, i m not expert in this subject of audio. I wish i could be...
> 
> Yes, Eco / Iem match off sounds better then other options, but ifi still uses a slight distortion when using extra safe latency.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Amp + Headphone matching are totally unrelated to your PC setup ie the latency. The former is the analogue domain and later in the digital domain.
  
 They should be treated in their own right and not mixed-up together.
  
 For the HD650 question, see above. Basically, set to Eco or Normal with iEMatch off and try.
  
 For the latency question, you need to see what your computer setup is, no-one is the same! This goes beyond a brief answer as computer audio is as as long as a piece of string. If you would like assistance, open a Support Ticket and our tech guys will try try their best to assist - send screenshots etc.


----------



## iFi audio

mogulmaster said:


> Also to my ears, I can't even get the volume to 3 o'clock on ECO. I think it is extremely loud at 3 haha, but I do listen to a lot of compressed music (electronic, indie-pop).
> 
> Thanks for the help iFi.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Try Audacity along with the ReLife plug-in from Terry West to 'uncompress' your compressed recordings* (and reduce the level of the recording at the same time).
  
 We all have our favoruite recordings that are unfortunately compressed to heck. This works a treat for compressed recordings - for well-recorded ones, no need to 'Re-Life' them.
  
* Dont expect to turn a Lady Gaga recording into a JVC XRCD recording but sure makes them far more enjoyable!
  
  
  
 1. Download this and install:
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/
  
 and
  
 2. Download this and install this plug-in into Audacity
 http://terrywest.nl/utils.html
  
  
  
 For something that costs the centre of a doughnut you might find a nice surprise.
  
 Just like with transcoding the iFi MP3 to DSD512 tutorial.
  
 Have fun!


----------



## obsidyen

Hi everyone... Just joined the club. Bought from the local dealer. Had Meridian Prime in mind, but this is a much better value and also more powerful.


----------



## iFi audio

dond said:


> +1
> 
> And as well have any of those settings/combinations an influence of any sort on the RCA output in direct or pre-amp mode?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The differences are minimal if any for the Direct out. Of course, the output IC when run at (say) Normal over Eco draws a little bit more current and runs (thermally) warmer.
  
 The Preamp is (intentionally) a little different. In Normal mode the preamp gain is around 10dB while in Eco mode it is around 0dB (in other words, no actual gain, just a buffered volume control).
  
 Cheers


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> Thanks for this and all your previous explanations. And for making such an innovative and functional product! The learning curve is steeper than usual with all the options, so it's understandable to simplify that graphic.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is the situation with amp for *Case 3: iEMatch High/Normal*?




dp


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> Thanks for this and all your previous explanations. And for making such an innovative and functional product! The learning curve is steeper than usual with all the options, so it's understandable to simplify that graphic.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is the situation with amp for *Case 3: iEMatch High/Normal*?


 
  
 Good question.
  
 The answer is that it literally is halfway between the two extremes.


----------



## KritiKal

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Try Audacity along with the ReLife plug-in from Terry West to 'uncompress' your compressed recordings* (and reduce the level of the recording at the same time).
> 
> ...




Thanks for this! I'd never heard of this plug-in, and I'll be giving it a try tomorrow. Have a few CD's that I'm hoping can receive a bit more life.


----------



## obsidyen

Hi guys, I've plugged the iDSD Micro and it's pure musical bliss. I'm going to be using it with on desktop at all times, only carrying them with me when I go to holiday. Is it ok to leave it plugged to the computer always? Or should I unplug once it's fully charged?
  
 Also I'm using Wasapi (Event) mode in Foobar 2000. Is that the preferred mode for Windows?


----------



## knorris908

obsidyen said:


> Hi guys, I've plugged the iDSD Micro and it's pure musical bliss. I'm going to be using it with on desktop at all times, only carrying them with me when I go to holiday. Is it ok to leave it plugged to the computer always? Or should I unplug once it's fully charged?
> 
> Also I'm using Wasapi (Event) mode in Foobar 2000. Is that the preferred mode for Windows?


 
 I've left mine plugged via USB primarily for the better part of a year seemingy to no ill effect.


----------



## obsidyen

Wow, the bass of Earsonics Velvet increased like 50% compared to Explorer2. XBass is turned off. The low end of this beast is indeed amazing.


----------



## knorris908

Good afternoon fellow Head-Fiers!
  
 I know that I personally had asked what the difference between the amp-section of the iDSD Micro & iCan Micro amp would sound like, so I am posting my impressions of the 2 going head to head after a couple of week's A/B listening.
  
 I also include some thoughts possibly relevant to the bassheads among us... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I hope that you find it to be of interest.
  
https://youtu.be/RlpQidbvdDQ


----------



## Music Path

knorris908 said:


> Good afternoon fellow Head-Fiers!
> 
> I know that I personally had asked what the difference between the amp-section of the iDSD Micro & iCan Micro amp would sound like, so I am posting my impressions of the 2 going head to head after a couple of week's A/B listening.
> 
> ...




I am curious to know how those to pair together. Once waited the review from another headfier about this topic. Never made the review.


----------



## knorris908

music path said:


> I am curious to know how those to pair together. Once waited the review from another headfier about this topic. Never made the review.


 
 Funny you should ask as that is exacty how I have them chained right now.  When I am ready to leave for a business trip, this is how I will do it in the hotel room:
 Laptop/DX90 -->optical -->iDSD Micro -->iCan Micro -->K545/K550s or Koss PortaPros.
  
 On a plane or in an airport I wouldn't bother adding the iCan and just use the iDSD as the environment would likely not be condusive to enjoying the difference between the two.  (They are that close unless I have highly-sibiliant/screechy instruments or voices in what I'm listening to.)  A noisy background usually robs most of the added detail I can detect in the mids or bass with the iCan.
  
 At home I am pretty darn close to the enjoyment I get out of the ASGARD 2 connected to the iDSD Micro as DAC when I use the iCAN and that almost always is listened to via HD-650s unless it's "fast tempo" music, and then I use the K550s.  (My HA-SZ2000 headphones used when I go through a bought of BASSHEAD is actually MORE enjoyable through the iCan!)  
  
 In short, the iCan is excellent when paired with the iDSD.  I've found no combo where this is not at least SLIGHTLY preferential to the iDSD Micro by itself.  Night and day difference?  No.  Slightly more resolving.  Better control of high end, slightly tighter low end if I REALLY look for it, and marginally wider soundstage.  (Though I feel that the iDSD has slightly more "depth" of soundstage.)
  
 If I listened to them separately, would I run to the register to buy the iCan if I already had the iDSD?  Probably not.  As I said, it is not a night and day difference.  But after listening to them in A/B fashion for that past few weeks, I am happy to add the iCan to the end of my audio chain!  The only way it could be better is if it could perform exactly the same, but off of battery power just like the iDSD does.  Which to my understanding would likely never happen as Class A amp performance almost universally precludes battery powered operation.  (I may be wrong, but Ive never personally witnessed an exception.)
  
 My rankings from a good, resolving source are:  (Getting better as moving down the line)
 4 - FIIO e17 | 3 - iDSD Micro | 2 - iCan Micro | 1 - ASGARD 2 (With the sole exception of "basshead" listening.  Then iCan Micro is the King followed by the iDSD Micro, then FIIO e17, with ASGARD 2 last since there is no bass boost option.)
  
  
 If you have the money, and want to eek the absolute most aural performance out of a small form-factor stack, I'd highly recommend it!  If you want to move away from the "iFi house sound", then you've opened a can of worms that will lead to you trying more desktop class amp solutions than I can count...


----------



## jexby

wow, great findings and writeup !  
 a lot of which mirrors my audio discovery during an extended demo of iCan+iTube along side iFi iDSD micro.
  
 will try and retailer my forthcoming (short) report to how iTube fits into this duo-to-trio pairing as well.
 cheers.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *knorris908* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I know that I personally had asked what the difference between the amp-section of the iDSD Micro & iCan Micro amp would sound like, so I am posting my impressions of the 2 going head to head after a couple of week's A/B listening.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice review. I was interested in what you had to say about bass boost, as I'm experiencing an occasional (track dependent) lack of mid-bass with my ZMF Blackwoods. I find XBass to be noticeable but quite subtle, and and pretty much all in the sub-bass region. ClieOS's measurements in his excellent review seem to back up what I'm hearing (<1dB @ 100Hz, +3dB @ 40Hz).
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/13009
  
 A minor point, you said in the video that XBass on the iDSD is the same as Setting 1 on the iCan. I believe I read somewhere (maybe in the iDSD crowd-designed thread) that iFi set the iDSD bass boost halfway between the two settings of the iCan (so effectively "1.5").
  
 For a HUGE sub-bass boost, have you tried using the iDSD in pre-amp mode with XBass on, and then to the iCan with its XBass turned on?


----------



## iFi audio

To launch the iDAC2 with a little fanfare, a nice 'n free competition for all Head-Fi'yers.
  
 Feel free to enter and good luck!
  

  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-launching-with-a-bang-competition-with-mega-goodies-gotta-be-in-it-to-win-it-see-page-4-for-details/90


----------



## KritiKal

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Try Audacity along with the ReLife plug-in from Terry West to 'uncompress' your compressed recordings* (and reduce the level of the recording at the same time).
> 
> ...




What settings do you use with the Re-Life plug-in?

I donated and downloaded it and applied it to an album that's horribly clipped. I used the pre-clean setting and set it to its maximum (3) with a 3dB overall reduction. I'm not sure on it, volume and dynamics are better, but it has made it quite dim and lacks previous clarity. Plus, the volume occasionally drops in a passage where it shouldn't.

So, do you use the pre-clean and also, what adjustment setting do you (generally) use?
I'll play with it a little more, but it would help a great deal to know how iFi use it.


----------



## obsidyen

Guys, I play a SACD rip DSD64 Depeche Mode album in Foobar 2000 but it shows green light. Shouldn't it be cyan? Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## ClieOS

obsidyen said:


> Guys, I play a SACD rip DSD64 Depeche Mode album in Foobar 2000 but it shows green light. Shouldn't it be cyan? Am I doing something wrong?


 
  
 Have you set it up correctly?
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/file.php?h=dpX1vwokBzRIfCQNeDppO8G3f3dYvzO0dbcce4a67e3387e64c42bca0d5f2e92b


----------



## Trogdor

obsidyen said:


> Guys, I play a SACD rip DSD64 Depeche Mode album in Foobar 2000 but it shows green light. Shouldn't it be cyan? Am I doing something wrong?




Are you doing DSD native (DoP) or is foobar2k converting it on the fly?


----------



## obsidyen

trogdor said:


> Are you doing DSD native (DoP) or is foobar2k converting it on the fly?


 
 I'm not sure. I don't know much about DoP  or other DSD formats to be honest. Foobar 2000 says it's a DSD 64 file. For instance I get the right light (yellow) while playing 192 khz.


----------



## obsidyen

clieos said:


> Have you set it up correctly?
> 
> http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/file.php?h=dpX1vwokBzRIfCQNeDppO8G3f3dYvzO0dbcce4a67e3387e64c42bca0d5f2e92b


 
  
 The driver is working fine.


----------



## ClieOS

Foobar is saying what it is reading, not what it is outputting. You need to be sure you have the DSD ASIO running and it is set to do DoP.


----------



## obsidyen

clieos said:


> Foobar is saying what it is reading, not what it is outputting. You need to be sure you have the DSD ASIO running and it is set to do DoP.


 
 Ok, I'll check again when I go home. It was set to "Wasapi (Event)". Thanks for the replies.


----------



## Trogdor

Actually, I am trying native DOP on my iFI and the light is still green. This is Audirvana 2.1.1 on OSX 10.10.4.

The light turned orange initially and then green during playback. It's orange for standard hi-res PCM (24/96 or 192 etc.).


----------



## rickyleelee

Easy buddy. Foobar outputing PCM 16/44. need to check your settings.


----------



## heart banger-97

Hello guys,
 I have a question regarding the comparison of idac2 and idsd.
  
 I'm looking for a dac for my desktop rig and I mainly listen to 16/44100 files. Is there any merit in idsd over idac2 from *technical point of view *in playing 16/44100 files?   
 1- Do 2 dac chip of idsd outperform one dac chip of idac2 in converting 16/44100 files?
 2- Does having a battery, make idsd sounds better than idac2 with 16/44100 files?


----------



## kuekwee

Anyone try ifi micro idsd on hifiman he1000? Enough to power it?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

The iFi can drive a HE-6 and a Abyss I don't see why the HE-1000 would not work too. But yes would be nice to hear from someone about this combo.


----------



## john57

The HE-1000 with a Sensitivity of 90 dB is much easier to drive than the HE-6 so I do not see a issue with the iDSD micro power-wise.


----------



## maricius

heart banger-97 said:


> Hello guys,
> I have a question regarding the comparison of idac2 and idsd.
> 
> I'm looking for a dac for my desktop rig and I mainly listen to 16/44100 files. Is there any merit in idsd over idac2 from *[COLOR=FF0000]technical point of view[/COLOR]* in playing 16/44100 files?
> ...




1-All I know is that two chips generally lead to a better SNR. 
2-If your USB power is dirty then yes, most probably. 

The two devices have similar functions but I don't think you can compare them just with aspects like these. There is more to implementation. I guess what you mean to say is if the iDAC2 had 2 chips or if the iDAC2 had an onboard battery supply would it sound better? To those, the answer is a resounding yes (at the same quality of implementation).


----------



## GrahamL

NEW APP ALERT!

Spurred on by Apple's idiot decision to remove Home Sharing from the latest version of iOS, I thought I'd do the usual periodic check of the App Store to see if there was finally an app that ticks all my boxes with respect to hi-res listening.

What I found was Ne Player from a Japanese company called Radius. I've not seen it mentioned before, and it's a good 'un. Actually, for my use case, it's unique and with limited testing it beats HF Player, Hibiki etc for me because it handles hi-res PCM and DSD properly **AND will pull from a DNLA server**.

Link to iOS version below. Also available for Android.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id970389374?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo%3D6


With either MinimServer or Asset UPnP running as a DNLA server, I can play hi-res ALAC up to 24/192 AND NATIVE DSD (DSD64) via my iDSD Micro. Everything stays in its native format and is bit-perfectly passed off to the DAC. The app will even package DSD as DoP on the fly meaning you can have the server just send straight .dsf files and the app handles the rest.

Two small bugs/issues I've found:

1. When playing DSD albums from .dsf files, the app stops and crashes when it reaches the end of a track. Workaround is to set the DNLA server to serve the DSD as DoP (which both Minim and Asset can do easily). This then works fine, but could do with fixing.

2. Can't achieve gapless playback when playing from a DNLA server - approx 1s gap.

It's a relatively expensive app (£10.99/$14.99) but despite the niggles, I feel it's decent value, worth supporting for further development, and it will now be my go-to app for hi-res. Excellent work, devs, thank you. Some screenshots below...


Playing DSD64 from a .dsf file and sending it as DoP to the iDSD Micro:




Playing 24/192 and sending to iDSD Micro as-is:




Settings:




More settings:


----------



## iFi audio

kuekwee said:


> Anyone try ifi micro idsd on hifiman he1000? Enough to power it?






Hi,

We had the HE-1000 last weekend at the Cranage Hall (UK) audio show. They sound pretty darn good! 

Here's a shot with the Retro Stereo 50.


----------



## Trogdor

kuekwee said:


> Anyone try ifi micro idsd on hifiman he1000? Enough to power it?




Using it now. No issues.


----------



## Music Path

knorris908 said:


> Funny you should ask as that is exacty how I have them chained right now.  When I am ready to leave for a business trip, this is how I will do it in the hotel room:
> Laptop/DX90 -->optical -->iDSD Micro -->iCan Micro -->K545/K550s or Koss PortaPros.
> 
> On a plane or in an airport I wouldn't bother adding the iCan and just use the iDSD as the environment would likely not be condusive to enjoying the difference between the two.  (They are that close unless I have highly-sibiliant/screechy instruments or voices in what I'm listening to.)  A noisy background usually robs most of the added detail I can detect in the mids or bass with the iCan.
> ...


 
 Saw your review on Youtube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Great detail ! Looking forward getting the ican too.


----------



## Music Path

jexby said:


> wow, great findings and writeup !
> a lot of which mirrors my audio discovery during an extended demo of iCan+iTube along side iFi iDSD micro.
> 
> will try and retailer my forthcoming (short) report to how iTube fits into this duo-to-trio pairing as well.
> cheers.


 
 Thought you ain't gonna make the review anymore.


----------



## Jumbosausage

I've just purchased one of these and I'm likely going to add the iUSB next month. I'll get the Gemini Dual-headed cable to go between the two but is there any need to add the Mercury USB cable between the PC and iUSB? Also is there any value to adding the ipurifier if you have the iUSB?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

jumbosausage said:


> I've just purchased one of these and I'm likely going to add the iUSB next month. I'll get the Gemini Dual-headed cable to go between the two but is there any need to add the Mercury USB cable between the PC and iUSB? Also is there any value to adding the ipurifier if you have the iUSB?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 micro iDSD already has the iPurifier built-in.


----------



## kuekwee

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We had the HE-1000 last weekend at the Cranage Hall (UK) audio show. They sound pretty darn good!
> 
> Here's a shot with the Retro Stereo 50.


 
 I tried today on Tablet->Ifi-> HE-1000 but still cant get WOW factor for the price tag. I'm sticking with my HD-800


----------



## Koolpep

kuekwee said:


> I tried today on Tablet->Ifi-> HE-1000 but still cant get WOW factor for the price tag. I'm sticking with my HD-800




The real wow factor with these headphones I had on a mini meet with the HE-1000 running on speaker taps. All the other Amps (except WA5 with all options) like the master 9, mainline, Cavalli liquid glass etc always felt like their was something missing. 

Cheers,


----------



## kuekwee

Wow need that much power to drive to full potential?


----------



## iFi audio

Last week, we received this from a very reputable customer (who shall remain annoymous) and thought interesting questions were raised. And so here is the Q&A for some of you who may find useful:
  
  
  
*Hardware:*
  
*> I read your explanaition about amping the hd650 on head.fi. And it worked well with Eco 3o clock and IEM match off.*
*> Since i should use it on 3o clock to get the minimum distortion. What about <50 ohm HPs? (Fidelio X2 and Senn Momentum)*
  
 As a rule, the power mode for the iDSD micro which places the volume control at around 12 o'Clock to 3 o'Clock with a given headphone offers:

 # Maximum Class A power, before switching to Class B
 # Lowest measured distortion
 # Lowest noise

 If it not possible to get the correct loudness using Eco and iEMatch will keep the noise levels under control and generally distortion levels will remain low.

 Some customers seem to prefer the sound of the iDSD micro with more distortion added. Due to the nature of the Power-amplifier, if not operated at clipping, the distortion will be very "Tube like" so by (for example) selecting Turbo Mode and using iEMatch they create a lot of tube-like distortion, similar to (say) a very mild setting on a guitar distortion pedal.

 Generally we do not recommend to combine iEMatch and turbo, as it could damage the resistors in the iEMatch network, though so far we have not encountered such a case.

 In the end the choice between a crystal clear, very low distortion Class A solid state sound or a more tube-like more distorted but subjectively warmer sound is up to the user.
  
  
*> If i use the Ican micro, will it help to get more out of idsd, since is class A? Dont have ways to test good HPs and amps nearby :/ Use only in opinions, which is harder.*
  
 The iCAN micro is on a fundamental level similar to the headphone amplifier in the iDSD micro operated in "normal" mode in terms of power etc.

 But it enjoys a far more elaborate design with much more complex and much higher capacitance power supplies. In addition the actual gain stage is fully discrete using our TubeState circuit. This is not a "discrete op-amp", but a radically different structure, which ultimately is designed to deliver tube sound from solid-state, but not by generating a lot of even/low order distortion the way many tube emulators do, but by making the circuit electrically close to tube circuitry in many other areas, while retaining low harmonic distortion.

 As a result of this the iCAN micro is a better Headphone Amplifier than that found in the iDSD micro.
  
 This should be a given for obvious reasons.  In fact we see the iCAN micro best partnered with the iDAC2 micro for a stationary desktop system (adding perhaps an iRACK and an iUSB Power) while the iDSD micro in many ways is the attempt to integrate the core parts into one box, with battery power and portable. As such it misses out on the last amount of refinement in sound quality in exchange for compact size, features and portability, though without a direct A/B comparison, on its own the iDSD micro is eminently listenable and offers very high levels of sound quality on-the-go and around the house.

 For anyone whom already has a micro and wants to add a better Headphone Amplifier, the iCAN micro is definitely worth trying out.
  


*Software:*

 > I used your DSD 512/ mp3 method for foobar 2000 and it sounded well. But i see many options for this software only.
 > Many playlists of mine are in Youtube, Soundcloud and now Spotify (Free). Premium is lossy anyway and not all is 320kpbs.
 > Since you are experts in audio, do you know anything good software wise to improve SQ, using those sources?
 > The only mode i found is add : " -exclusive-mode-audio" on the path of chrome or spotify.
  
 For those who are handy around computers, you MAY wish to attempt the following.
  
 J-River in the latest version can act as "virtual soundcard" that can process any sound on PC via DSP plugins and also output sound via Foobar's ASIO Proxy.
  
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.0
  
 Other software are VST Plugins aimed at professional audio (Terry West productions have a good selection http://www.terrywest.nl/plugins.html), but generally while very powerful tools such software requires individual settings per track for best results, which goes beyond the remit of iFi's Support Ticket System!
  
 Though it should may be possible to generate some general pre-sets including something like "Re-Life" and "De-Harsh" (both under UTILS) to restore lost dynamics and reduce the harshness of low grade compression combined with commercial mixes. This may need some experimentation. Generally such effects are best used in great moderation. More advanced "re-mastering" may use "MHORSE P3" (under equalisers) and "Re-Life", but initially this Mastering processor may seem intimidating.

 But in principle a chain in Windows of :

 Spotify ->
 J-River MC (V 20 and up) ->
 Re-Life ->        
 De-Harsh or Mhorse P3 ->
 J-River Asio Output to ASIO-Proxy ->
 DSD-512 via ASIO-Proxy ->
 iDSD micro

 is entirely possible and can be used to correct some of issues streaming audio faces. Of course, it will never match a real high grade, uncompressed High Resolution recording. That said, even many CD rips and even some SACD rips can definitely benefit from some gentle "re-mastering", especially "re-life" in small doses and some EQ (see also Dick Burwen's Bobcat", essentially the 21st century Cello Palette).
  
  
 As an example, The Glitch Mob (famous for their Tron Legacy: DeRezzed) is wonderful but unfortunately as with all their music, is compressed to heck.

  
 Using Audacity, we took one of the latest tracks from the album "Love Death Immortality > Cant Kill Us" and it looks like this, everythng is at the point of clipping and compressed like nobody's business.

 But with just a little Audacity + ReLife, it looks like this: the top-end clipping is reduced and there is a semblance of some dynamic range as the peaks and troughs are that bit better.

 This does not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear but.....it is nicer to listen to and who doesn't like to improve the SQ of their fav recordings?


----------



## DonD

> The iCAN micro is on a fundamental level similar to the headphone amplifier in the iDSD micro operated in "normal" mode in terms of power etc.
> 
> But it enjoys a far more elaborate design with much more complex and much higher capacitance power supplies. In addition the actual gain stage is fully discrete using our TubeState circuit. This is not a "discrete op-amp", but a radically different structure, which ultimately is designed to deliver tube sound from solid-state, but not by generating a lot of even/low order distortion the way many tube emulators do, but by making the circuit electrically close to tube circuitry in many other areas, while retaining low harmonic distortion.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice piece of information! Thanks for sharing.
  
 As for a pure desktop usage, would you also recommend the iDAC2 instead of the iDSD micro?
 Meaning that despite iDSD micro's double core DAC and its capabilities of 2xDXD and octa-DSD, the iDAC2 would be superior (in sound quality) due to its more refined output circuitry?


----------



## iFi audio

dond said:


> Very nice piece of information! Thanks for sharing.
> 
> As for a pure desktop usage, would you also recommend the iDAC2 instead of the iDSD micro?
> Meaning that despite iDSD micro's double core DAC and its capabilities of 2xDXD and octa-DSD, the iDAC2 would be superior (in sound quality) due to its more refined output circuitry?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes - easier life, plug and play. No battery management, no messing with headphone settings.
  
 And just listen.
  
 For sure, the iDAC2 is as close to the micro iDSD as possible.
  
 Try for yourself before purchasing as we always like customers to try for themselves.


----------



## odib

Hi guys,
 I just bought a Micro and hopefully I will have it delivered by tomorrow. I was wondering what power setting do you suggest to match with the HD800?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

As a HD800 and micro iDSD owner set it to normal modus and IEMatch off this is perfect for the HD800. Works for really slient classical recordings and regular modern mastering recodrings well. Have fun with it!


----------



## jmsaxon69

h1f1add1cted said:


> As a HD800 and micro iDSD owner set it to normal modus and IEMatch off this is perfect for the HD800. Works for really slient classical recordings and regular modern mastering recodrings well. Have fun with it!


 

 Agreed, sounds damn good too!


----------



## odib

Thanks guys just received my Micro. The 24 hour first charging time is killing me =[ lol.


----------



## KritiKal

odib said:


> Thanks guys just received my Micro. The 24 hour first charging time is killing me =[ lol.




No need to charge it for 24 hours, just until the blue light switches off. Ifi mentioned a while back that that's a precautionary measure in case the iDSD came to you near flat, and you were charging it with a standard USB 500mAh charger, in which case it would take quite a fair few hours. So if the blue light is out, go for it!


----------



## odib

Sweet thanks for letting me know. Can't wait to try it out =].


----------



## rcoleman1

odib said:


> Sweet thanks for letting me know. Can't wait to try it out =].


 
 You're in for a real treat I tell you. I've had mine for about 6 months and I'm totally impressed with the sound signature of my iDSD! I use mine with my Sennheiser HD650s, my Sony MDR-Z7s and all my IEMs with pleasure. It's so versatile.


----------



## odib

Finally had a chance to listen to the Micro with the HD800 and they sounded great. I love the fact that I could use the XBass to boost up the bass up a notch, especially when listening to EDM. I couldn't really hear too much differences when I compared it to my Concero HP (which is a good thing), except for the small channel imbalance at very low listening levels which I read on here was normal, so that's ok. So now my Concero HP is up for sale (hated the volume knob on that thing) and keeping the wonderful Micro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## hennezzy

Just got my Micro IDSD, I was so close in selling my OPPO PM2, but the pair has blown my mind. Thanks to iFi for making such a wonderful device, it is amazing!


----------



## rickyleelee

Hi iFi, can you make a pdf on the software to play DSD vis Spotify. Would love it. Just like your MP3 to DSd article.


----------



## obsidyen

Where are iFi's articles? There are so many pages, it's impossible to through them all! I'd be glad if they were consolidated into a single post.


----------



## iFi audio

rickyleelee said:


> Hi iFi, can you make a pdf on the software to play DSD vis Spotify. Would love it. Just like your MP3 to DSd article.


 
  
  
 You mean this one?
  
*Software:*

 > I used your DSD 512/ mp3 method for foobar 2000 and it sounded well. But i see many options for this software only.
 > Many playlists of mine are in Youtube, Soundcloud and now Spotify (Free). Premium is lossy anyway and not all is 320kpbs.
 > Since you are experts in audio, do you know anything good software wise to improve SQ, using those sources?
 > The only mode i found is add : " -exclusive-mode-audio" on the path of chrome or spotify.
  
 For those who are handy around computers, you MAY wish to attempt the following.
  
 J-River in the latest version can act as "virtual soundcard" that can process any sound on PC via DSP plugins and also output sound via Foobar's ASIO Proxy.
  
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.0
  
 Other software are VST Plugins aimed at professional audio (Terry West productions have a good selection http://www.terrywest.nl/plugins.html), but generally while very powerful tools such software requires individual settings per track for best results, which goes beyond the remit of iFi's Support Ticket System!
  
 Though it should may be possible to generate some general pre-sets including something like "Re-Life" and "De-Harsh" (both under UTILS) to restore lost dynamics and reduce the harshness of low grade compression combined with commercial mixes. This may need some experimentation. Generally such effects are best used in great moderation. More advanced "re-mastering" may use "MHORSE P3" (under equalisers) and "Re-Life", but initially this Mastering processor may seem intimidating.

 But in principle a chain in Windows of :

 Spotify ->
 J-River MC (V 20 and up) ->
 Re-Life ->        
 De-Harsh or Mhorse P3 ->
 J-River Asio Output to ASIO-Proxy ->
 DSD-512 via ASIO-Proxy ->
 iDSD micro

 is entirely possible and can be used to correct some of issues streaming audio faces. Of course, it will never match a real high grade, uncompressed High Resolution recording. That said, even many CD rips and even some SACD rips can definitely benefit from some gentle "re-mastering", especially "re-life" in small doses and some EQ (see also Dick Burwen's Bobcat", essentially the 21st century Cello Palette).
  
  
 As an example, The Glitch Mob (famous for their Tron Legacy: DeRezzed) is wonderful but unfortunately as with all their music, is compressed to heck.
  
  
 Using Audacity, we took one of the latest tracks from the album "Love Death Immortality > Cant Kill Us" and it looks like this, everythng is at the point of clipping and compressed like nobody's business.

 But with just a little Audacity + ReLife, it looks like this: the top-end clipping is reduced and there is a semblance of some dynamic range as the peaks and troughs are that bit better.

 This does not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear but.....it is nicer to listen to and who doesn't like to improve the SQ of their fav recordings?
  
  
  
 Please give us some time as it is not a 10-minute task!


----------



## rickyleelee

That's exactly the one I meant!


----------



## ubikutz

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes for sure because it is about the micro DSD & headphone matching.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
  
 Need a bit of help after trying to apply the above.
  
 My normal listening levels are between 55 - 70db (a-weighted) measured with a micw i436 calibrated microphone set between the ear and earphone.
  
 My experience with the IFI Micro DSD and the HD650 (300ohm) is that i can only get it between 12 and 3 o'clock in this volume range on "Eco" with "Ultra-Sensitivity". Needless to say things sound pretty muddy here with little dynamic range or clarity 
  
 If i set it to "Normal" and "Off", at 9 o'clock it is already as loud as i would dare listen for any prolonged period (70dba with 85dba peaks), but there's channel imbalance and it's quite outside the normal range advised.
 12 o'clock it's already too loud (87dba with 105db peaks). I did not dare go to 3 o'clock.
 This was "George Michal - Spinning the Wheel".
  
 So I'm a bit puzzled... What about listening to low volumes to preserve hearing? I can't find any mode that allows me to do that and keep decent sound quality. 
 These headphones can give out a lot of micro-detail at low volumes where things are safe and non fatiguing for long periods of listening.
  
 By comparison, my crappy 2000$ Onkyo AV Receiver has a digital volume knob that has perfect channel balance at volume level 1 out of 100, and already by 5-6 it gets the HD650 to 55db with lots of dynamic range.
 It's certainly light ears away from how the IFI can sound if you compare them volume matched at 90dba from clarity or instrument separation point of view, but that is to be expected; Onkyo probably kept costs minimal when designing that headphone jack.
  
 So what I'm wondering is:
 - how can the IFI be used to listen to what i call "normal" listening levels? it seems impossible with a 300ohm headphone, i'm imagining a 50/150ohm headphone would make things ever worse
 - why do we need to be plagued with channel imbalance at low volumes? can't there be a better solution to this problem? i'm already paying a lot for this, i would not mind pay a bit more to get proper volume control
 - why is digital volume control avoided? it is such a problem for sound quality? digital volume doesn't seem to have channel imbalance at low volumes, nor dynamic range problems outside the "recommended" area.
  
 So far I'm a bit unhappy with my purchase


----------



## maricius

ubikutz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Need a bit of help after trying to apply the above.
> 
> ...


 
  
 First and foremost, have you burned-in your iDSD for at least a hundred hours? Second, my experience with the HD650 and the iDSD was either Eco or Normal with iEMatch on "Off" or Normal with iEMatch on "High Sensitivity."
  
 Yes, iFi believes an analog potentiometer yields less sacrifice to the sound quality compared to a digital volume control.


----------



## iFi audio

ubikutz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Need a bit of help after trying to apply the above.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 To answer your questions:
  
  
 > how can the IFI be used to listen to what i call "normal" listening levels?
  
 Most would probably call your levels very low. 70dBA for example is 15dB quieter than a classical orchestra at a crescendo. We listen louder. Audio really is quite subjective - just set your preferred listening using combination of power and iEMatch to 3 o' clock. This is approximate.
  
  
 > why is digital volume control avoided? it is such a problem for sound quality? digital volume doesn't seem to have channel imbalance at low volumes, nor dynamic range problems outside the "recommended" area.
  
 The digital volume control costs £0 (it is built-into pretty much all modern DACs...hint: the TDA 1541A does not have this)
  
 The analogue potentiometer by contrast, does not cost £0.
  
 Playing music at 9 o' clock level is similar to buying a Honda Civic VTEC and then running it at 1,000-2,000 revs - it just won't drive well. So set it up so that it is cranked to 3 o' clock.
  
 We have found that in the sub-US$1,000 sector as often found on Head-Fi, the digital volume control is pretty ubiquitous. Therefore, if we wanted to, we could have just done the same as others. But there is a very strong reason why we did not use the onboard digital volume control - sound quality. Because the digital audio signal is not truncated. We are quite besotted by this. It does not make business sense to spend money if it could be avoided yet we did go the extra mile.
  
 Looking higher up where AMR is based, in high-end audio, just about all amplifiers eschew the digital volume control and use an analogue volume control. Take for example the US$22,500 Reimyo CAT-777 which naturally uses an analogue volume control. Needless to say, the sound quality is exceptional for this Japanese device designed by Kiuchi-san. It really is the cat's meow. Yet it has a channel imbalance up to 11 o' clock. But used by its customers and at shows etc, it is always run past 12 o' clock.
  

  
 Cheers.


----------



## Music Path

rickyleelee said:


> Hi iFi, can you make a pdf on the software to play DSD vis Spotify. Would love it. Just like your MP3 to DSd article.




That would be great to 
Listening spotify (free) with dsd512 would be better. But couldnt manage that. Even with the later explanation of ifi it's still not easy for me to make it.


----------



## WriterHead

ubikutz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Need a bit of help after trying to apply the above.
> 
> ...


 
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't understand your problem. I have used iDSD micro with HD650, Grado 325i, HE400i, and LCD2 rev2 and have none of those problems. You just have to put  iematch off and select the eco or normal gain level depending on the volume level of the recording, enjoy your music and stop becoming obsessed with technicalities.


----------



## technobear

I think some people are getting carried away with tiny differences here. The micro iDSD sounds way beyond 'decent' with any setting.

Also remember that when you engage IEMatch, the signal flows through a different set of components. If you have not yet broken in these components, they will sound rough for a little while until they break in.


----------



## iancraig10

ubikutz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Need a bit of help after trying to apply the above.
> 
> ...




That's a very low volume to be listening at. You must have great control!!!

I would have thought that frequency extremes must also be curtailed so you wouldn't hear proper bass or presence at those kinds of volume.

For you, it might be better to get an amp with less power since the quoted power of the Ifi Micro is very high considering your prefered listening volumes. Especially for sensitive low impedance headphones.

Music must sound as though it's coming from next door. I think that you are listening at a very unusual level but if that suits you, you may well be correct, this amp is not for you given the power that that the Micro offers.


----------



## Music Path

iancraig10 said:


> That's a very low volume to be listening at. You must have great control!!!
> 
> I would have thought that frequency extremes must also be curtailed so you wouldn't hear proper bass or presence at those kinds of volume.
> 
> ...




For me its not a surprise that he listens at 55db - 70db.
Myself, i listen at 65 - 75 db mostly, and at 80 - 85 db max. Peak to shake my head. 
After that it turns uncofortable, because songs are not recorded at same volume and i know that i'm not carring about my hearing.

I see quite some people in this forum comenting about hearing problems and i start to understand why.

Same as training or get use your ears to listen with less bass or diferent sound signature, goes for volume.
At the end you hear much more. 

The idsd is quite versatile, and iem match is very usefull for volume controling.
So i think it will cause no problem even for sensetive hearing users too.


----------



## iancraig10

I've used headphones for over 40 years and not gone deaf yet! (Everything is crossed)

Maybe I treat myself to 90 or 95 db on peaks sometimes, but the average levels he suggests that he listens to seem like long distance listening to me. 55 db is really quite low. I'm not criticising here. I'm impressed with his self-restraint!!

That's why I suspect the amp may actually be a little too powerful for him. No problem with the amp. Just his preference so I would suggest something less powerful because he might not even be getting close to 12 o clock on the vol pot at that kind of volume.

I've had to be bery self disciplined keeping it down at 85 to 90 since for over 30 years, I've played live in a band and they refused to turn down even close to 90!! To save my hearing, I actually used to play with earplugs fitted which I believe at the age of 61 now, has saved my hearing.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist2/projects/sixer/loud.pdf

55 = quiet urban daytime. As a peak?


----------



## iFi audio

We hope you like this:
  
  
iDAC2 + ‘Special iFi Music Sampler’ DSD album by Sound Liaison  
 We the very nice Head-Fi people leave kind comments with their entries. So we thought we should return the compliment. Well, here goes.
  
 Costing you absolutely ZERO, from the great people at Sound Liasions studios, you will find three specially-selected tracks in three formats; PCM, FLAC and DSD (of course!).
  

  
iFi micro iDAC2 - Special iFi Music Sampler *01. Carmen Gomes Inc. – Thousand Shades of Blue*
*02. Andre Heuvelman – Oblivion*
‘Oblivion’ and ‘Thousand Shades of Blue’ were performed live in the studio, recorded in multi-track PCM 96kHz. The DSD conversion was done via an analog signal chain, using state of the art professional equipment to the Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder.
  
*03. Tony Overwater & Bert van den Brink – Impromptu*
‘Impromptu’ was recorded live directly to DSD using the Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder and simultaneously to PCM with the RME UFX.
  
  
 Whether you are an iFi customer or not, you are welcome to download this FREE iDAC2 PCM/DSD album courtesy of Sound Liasion in the Netherlands.
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-launching-with-a-bang-competition-with-mega-goodies-gotta-be-in-it-to-win-it-see-page-4-for-details/300#post_11749432


----------



## iancraig10

And thank you for your support on this forum. It's greatly appreciated.


----------



## LoryWiv

music path said:


> For me its not a surprise that he listens at 55db - 70db.
> Myself, i listen at 65 - 75 db mostly, and at 80 - 85 db max. Peak to shake my head.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very interesting comment, *hm22music. *I have been experimenting with lower volumes as well (I'll be 60 next b'day and really value hearing acuity) and am pleasantly surprised that I have acclamated and generally enjoy it. At times I feel my ability to hear detail and nuance is enhanced by the decrease in dB, perhaps because I am concentrating harder. It is a less visceral experience which at times I miss, however.
  
 Question: Does anyone know if the upcoming 1964Ears/Adel IEM's (touted as incorporating technology that allows higher perceived loudness at lower listening volumes, therefore less risk of hearing damage) are liklely to be a real advance? There is some interesting marketing on their web and kickstarter pages but I am still skeptical. If they could really deliver the musical goods whilst preserving and protecting hearing....ah, nirvana may exist.
  
 BTW: Sorry if this is too far off topic. Please redirect me to another thread if needed.


----------



## Music Path

lorywiv said:


> Very interesting comment, *hm22music. *I have been experimenting with lower volumes as well (I'll be 60 next b'day and really value hearing acuity) and am pleasantly surprised that I have acclamated and generally enjoy it. At times I feel my ability to hear detail and nuance is enhanced by the decrease in dB, perhaps because I am concentrating harder. It is a less visceral experience which at times I miss, however.
> 
> Question: Does anyone know if the upcoming 1964Ears/Adel IEM's (touted as* incorporating technology that allows higher perceived loudness at lower listening volumes, therefore less risk of hearing damage) *are liklely to be a real advance? There is some interesting marketing on their web and kickstarter pages but I am still skeptical. If they could really deliver the musical goods whilst preserving and protecting hearing....ah, nirvana may exist.
> 
> BTW: Sorry if this is too far off topic. Please redirect me to another thread if needed.


 
 I think that is the goal of high fidelity. Hear more with less. 
 I notice already that i m listening things with equivalent 40% direct pc soundcard volume then 50%, when i didnt had any dacs, senn 650 etc...
 Was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## jexby

First, a big thank you to Avatar Acoustics (GA, USA) and iFi (UK) for the demo time of 
 iCan + iTube + iPower
 hooked up to my existing iFi micro iDSD.   (kept iDSD in Direct Mode)
 Alas, the gear has been returned to the show room floor for future lucky listener demos.
  
 Second,
 this isn’t a huge comprehensive review or report, as there have been a LOT of good reviews/videos of micro iDSD and iCan elsewhere.
 despite not being a basshead I appreciated the time it took for the recent micro iDSD+iCan video review.
  
 Third,
 onward to the trio.
  
 1. micro iDSD.  use this every day, with iPhone 5S running Onkyo HD player.
 usually at night listening with IEMs. have zero quibbles with the amp when using IEMs, and appreciate that the 3D can sometime help provide (track dependent)  soundstage alteration and treble to some darker IEMs.  Xbass, gotta be honest- my musical style doesn’t hit this feature much, am hard pressed to consistently noice when this switch is engaged.
  
 only about 10% of the time have I connected HD800 or HE-560s, flipped amp to Normal mode and listened to full sized headphones.  normally to move around the house or back yard listening sessions.
 As others have mentioned the amp is good, yet by it’s lonesome probably doesn’t approach the depth, quality or decisiveness of a full time/desktop rig.
 come to think of it, isn’t it somewhat unfair to expect such?
  
 Enter:
 2.  micro iCan
 now this is the full Class A amp most would say is Step 1 to improvement, can’t say it disappoints.
 amp has control over the low end and soundstage gets wider.
 iCan is also very powerful, even with the HE-560s was NOT cranking this volume knob to 12noon.  luckily the gain is customizable with the switches on the bottom.
 Despite Class A power, this unit never got hot to the touch, only warm.  likely due to the long and narrow aluminum heat sink chassis?
 now here the 3D and Xbass switches here really DO have noticeable levels of enhancement/change, and that is super welcome as folks likely would “tune" HD800 or HE-560 differently, and flip switches to match such.  the micro iDSD + iCan combination is a sweet small-desktop pairing to be sure, one could even switch between IEMs out of the iDSD to full headphones out of iCan for two person listening sessions.
  
 time to add in:
 3. micro iTube
 cool.  tube buffer to add some analog musicality back into all this digital source n circuitry!
 not sure if iTube was originally designed for phono or speakers instead of headphones, but it makes no diff IMO.
 not ooey gooey slow n syrupy tube ness. add a touch of warmth without losing detail, a taller/deeper sound stage presenting some “in-room” feeling, vocals seemed a bit more natural and hover in the air.
 The added functionality Pre-Amp mode with turning of the volume knob, when used in conjunction with iCan’s knob to deliver more fine grained selection of volume, a benefit for folks preferring low-volume listening.
  
 for my ears:  it’s the trio that sounded best together!
 sure iCan steps up the amp, but if moving toward an iCan upgrade (on a desk) one should also plan for an iTube purchase one day as well IMHO.
  
 this iFi trio provides a ton of options for gain, 3D/Xbass effects and volume control, almost to the point of confusion?  at times wasn’t sure if I should flip the 3D on the iTube, instead of iCan, etc.
 Hey- no harm in playing around right? nothing will blow up.
 tons of listening combinations to compare, that’s for sure.  plus the power to drive almost every headphone under the sun minus HE-6 or Abyss.
 super versatile combination of gear to put it mildly.
  
 people looking for the complete “small desk set up” with iCan in hand:
 save some cash for iTube also if you are in this iFi world.
 iTube puts the gentle “finishing touches” of analog into already fine audio delivery.
  
 This iFi trio sparks the curiosity about the upcoming iFi Pro series for sure!
 cheers.


----------



## Music Path

Thanks for this review. I was awaiting it.


----------



## Music Path

Well now im indecided too get itube or HD600 to complement HD650+idsd, both will be subtle differences in sound.


----------



## newtophones07

I'm torn, I need a new setup to play around with and want to try the ifi gear, but I need a phono preamp. So the retro stereo 50 seems perfect.

I want to know if the "best" performance will better sourced as individual units, dsd micro, iphono, itube, iusb and ican?


I don't need the speakers that come with the retro 50, so it's only $1500 with the 2x25w amp, whereas sourced separately it comes to $1750 shipped. 

Are the retro 50 internals the same as the separate parts,no compromises?


----------



## rickyleelee

newtophones07 said:


> I'm torn, I need a new setup to play around with and want to try the ifi gear, but I need a phono preamp. So the retro stereo 50 seems perfect.
> 
> I want to know if the "best" performance will better sourced as individual units, dsd micro, iphono, itube, iusb and ican?
> 
> ...




I have both - not exactly the same but in terms of DA and headamp, then the Stereo 50 is a giant slayer. If you try one, try the Stereo 50 because it is so damm impressive. Possible the phono stage is not as good as the iphono itself but if it is half as good, it will already blow away any $1k phono stage. it is insane the Stereo 50. i noticed audio research is onoto iFi and have brought their version which costs a little more. So the Stereto 50 must be doing something good in the market. Try Crutchfield. My in laws said they got a great service from them when they bought Stereo 50！


----------



## john57

rickyleelee said:


> i noticed audio research is onoto iFi and have brought their version which costs a little more.


 
 I do not think it is out yet at $17k to $19k the last I have heard about it for the GSi75.


----------



## roamling

ifi audio said:


> Last week, we received this from a very reputable customer (who shall remain annoymous) and thought interesting questions were raised. And so here is the Q&A for some of you who may find useful:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In fact I have to say that using the headphone amp section in ECO mode has improved the listening experience with my HD650. I was reluctant to go over 12 o'clock for some silly reason but listening now at at around 2pm-3pm with high DR recordings and at around 12 pm with more compressed recording is actually great


----------



## gixxerwimp

I gave up trying to make foobar2k work with DSD files and installed JRiver. Interface is really busy, but at least it handles all audio formats effortlessly.
  
 In case anyone wants to try out some DSD recordings, I found some free (short) contemporary piano samples on this Japanese website (English version):
 http://wechdomi.org/english/index.html
  
 There's a DSD512 file upsampled from a DSD256 recording, and recordings at various other bitrates. Download speeds are pretty good.


----------



## diamondears

Any of you experienced Apple CCK dying suddenly with the micro iDSD? 2 CCKs died successively on me, prolly just around 2 hours of listening apart.


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> Any of you experienced Apple CCK dying suddenly with the micro iDSD? 2 CCKs died successively on me, prolly just around 2 hours of listening apart.


 

 nope


----------



## classicradios

I had to return a CCK after 4 hours with the iDSD.  The second CCK has been working fine for 3 weeks now.


----------



## Bilbow

diamondears said:


> Any of you experienced Apple CCK dying suddenly with the micro iDSD? 2 CCKs died successively on me, prolly just around 2 hours of listening apart.




Happened to me a few weeks ago with a lightning CCK. Actually it didn't die as such, rather the iPhone complains that the CCK uses too much power when I plug it in - as good as dead as far as connecting it to the iDSD is concerned though! Will buy a new CCK at some point, which is irritating as I only bought this one at the end of last year.


----------



## Ivabign

I hadn't listened to music through my Micro for a month or more and hooked it up to the iMac last night - JH16's and some lossless tunes... The separation and soundstage on this is just wonderful. Just a great sounding amplifier/DAC - black background and a ton of power - not that JH16's need power, but the amp controls the drivers so well. I am not a big fan of EQ with headphones - although I used to EQ everything back in the day - but I enjoy the 3D switch on this device - not always, but with some material it works really well. Too big to be portable, but on my desk it is a blast.


----------



## diamondears

classicradios said:


> I had to return a CCK after 4 hours with the iDSD.  The second CCK has been working fine for 3 weeks now.



Maybe a QC issue by Apple? The 1st CCK lightning has been with me for a year. Then it died, then the new one just died 2 days ago while plugged into the micro iDSD and iPhone 6+. I'm thinking maybe I'm doing something to trigger/cause it?


----------



## diamondears

bilbow said:


> Happened to me a few weeks ago with a lightning CCK. Actually it didn't die as such, rather the iPhone complains that the CCK uses too much power when I plug it in - as good as dead as far as connecting it to the iDSD is concerned though! Will buy a new CCK at some point, which is irritating as I only bought this one at the end of last year.



Even if you turn ON the micro iDSD first before plugging the CCK into the iPhone?


----------



## knorris908

Away for a family reunion this week and let some relatives who love good music listen to the stack of iBASSO DX90 into the iDSD Micro into the iCAN Micro through my Sennheiser HD-650s, AKG 550s & 545s and they were were all completely blown away.

A couple of them even showed enough interest/patience for me to run through a direct iDSD Micro to headphones setup and we're still mightily-impressed with the sound quality. Played DSD albums of Holst, Roger Waters, and Pink Floyd. Had to make sure that my equipment didn't leave our room with them! 

Viva La iFi!


----------



## Bilbow

Yes





diamondears said:


> Even if you turn ON the micro iDSD first before plugging the CCK into the iPhone?




Yes, even then. It appears to be an issue with the CCK and iPhone suddenly no longer wanting to play together. The only thing I can think of is how the CCK cable bends when the phone is placed directly on top of the iDSD - over time this may stressing the cable in a way that is was not designed to deal with.


----------



## obsidyen

iDSD Micro + Earsonics Velvet = Heaven on Earth
  
 Settings: Eco mode + IEMatch High Sentivity Mode


----------



## lucidreamer

Just wondering if someone used the coax output from iDSD Micro?
  
 I ordered a basic FiiO D/A converter from Amazon for $26.99 to connect the coax output from iDSD to the converter and feed its analog output signal to my subwoofer. This D/A converter has 24bit/192kHz that should basically work for 99/9% cases. I currently output the analog signal from the iMicro headphone output directly to the subwoofer line input which is not the best way to do. I do not want to split my line out that goes to the Elekit TU8200DX tube amplifier already in order to feed a second line in for subwoofer. Splitting a line out is not a recommended idea due to impediance, resistance, crosstalk and other reasons.
  
 If I play DSD or other hi-resolution format, for instance, what digital format does the coax output signal produce from iDSD Micro? Will it downconvert it to 24/192 by chance? It would be great if it does that.
  
 How does it perform in general in terms of signal stability, possible signal delays, no audible ticks or clicks, etc? For instance, if I feed the analog to the amplifier and digital to the converter then subwoofer, will everything sound in sync? Any other possible recommendations how to connect a subwoofer to the iFi Micro maybe?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## technobear

lucidreamer said:


> If I play DSD or other hi-resolution format, for instance, what digital format does the coax output signal produce from iDSD Micro? Will it downconvert it to 24/192 by chance? It would be great if it does that.
> 
> Thanks!




If you play DSD, you will get nothing from the S/P-DIF coaxial output.


----------



## aerosuffly

Is it safe to change various configuration of the iDSD during playback, i.e. which switches are safe to move during the playback?


----------



## ClieOS

aerosuffly said:


> Is it safe to change various configuration of the iDSD during playback, i.e. which switches are safe to move during the playback?


 
  
 All switches are safe to move around, provided you lower the volume first when playing around the power mode and IEMatch switches.


----------



## gr8soundz

aerosuffly said:


> Is it safe to change various configuration of the iDSD during playback, i.e. which switches are safe to move during the playback?


 
  
 Might wanna be careful with the bottom Direct / Preamp switch. Think iFi instructs to turn the Micro off when changing that one.


----------



## iancraig10

If you do, be sure that the volume is down. If you switch to 'turbo', it'll blow your head off!!


----------



## KritiKal

gr8soundz said:


> Might wanna be careful with the bottom Direct / Preamp switch. Think iFi instructs to turn the Micro off when changing that one.




They definitely suggest it when playing with the gain. 


Do turn it *right* down (or off) when doing this. I've noticed that on some occasions if you're playing with the IEMatch or Power Mode switches and you don't get the switch to land perfectly on that setting, it will output at the max setting (Turbo/Off). So you have to be careful with this if you dont tuen it down as it seriously loud. Not to mention tou could accidentally push it too far. Best to turn it down or off and avoid it completely.


----------



## nopc0de

So I just bought this 2 days ago and I still haven't been able to get this thing to work.
 It doesn't get recognized in my MBPr mid-2012 (it doesn't even show up as an output option), the LED is white.
  
 With my windows 7 pc I have no clue whatsoever. 
 At first I tried to install the latest driver but the installer didn't detect the device.
 I kept it plugged in and rebooted and then the installer worked, but after installation the device still wasn't detected.
 So I rebooted again and finally the little ifi pop-up window detected the device and so did windows BUT:
 - Winamp and VLC would crash when I tried to play something
 - The windows "test sound" also gave an error while trying to play.
  
 Since then I've reboot about 15 times.
 I deinstalled the latest driver and installed the 2.20 without luck. I tried using USB3.0 ports at the back and front of the PC and USB2.0 ports at the back. 
  
  
 The only think so far that has worked is the 3.5mm front jack.
  
  
 Really, really disappointed with this thing. I'm probably returning it next week and never touching ifi again.
  
  
  
 EDIT:
  
 For anyone who cares. Right now I don't have any driver installed and I'm unable to install one because it says that the device is not plugged in. The device shows a green LED when plugged in to my computer.


----------



## Brooko

Sorry - but I'm going to be "captain obvious" in reply ^^^

Mine worked OOTB - after installing drivers

Further - spending about 5 minutes with Foobar's instructions has me up scaling to DSD quality with no issues (I used Schiit Audio's how-to)

Couldn't be simpler. @nopc0de - hopefully not PEBKAC related. If you want help, I'll be back home in another week if you want to try and solve via PM


----------



## gr8soundz

nopc0de said:


> So I just bought this 2 days ago and I still haven't been able to get this thing to work.
> It doesn't get recognized in my MBPr mid-2012 (it doesn't even show up as an output option), the LED is white.
> 
> With my windows 7 pc I have no clue whatsoever.
> ...


 
  
 Not sure what your Micro is doing but I'd try these things on the PC (if you haven't done so already):
  
 1. Disable ALL other audio devices on you PC (in BIOS and Windows) and restart.
  
 2. Try a different usb cable and make sure its pushed all the way in on the Micro.
  
 3. Don't connect the Micro until the driver install prompts you to (or after it again says not detected).
  
 4. If the Micro driver installs successfully but the audio still skips (this happened to me), click the icon in the lower right corner to open the iFi settings and change the usb modes to Extra Safe and 8192 (max) samples.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## nopc0de

gr8soundz said:


> Not sure what your Micro is doing but I'd try these things on the PC (if you haven't done so already):
> 
> 1. Disable ALL other audio devices on you PC (in BIOS and Windows) and restart.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I managed to get to step 4 but when the audio skipped I rebooted and now its remaining undetected again.
  
 EDIT: Did the entire loop again (Deinstall, Reboot, Install, Reboot, Replug, Reboot, Change BIOS settings*, boot)
  
 * XHCI Mode and XHCI Hand-off is now switched to off.
 Should I disable my audio controller? But then I can't use my mic anymore...
  
 And then again for a few seconds windows recognizes the device but when I play it doesn't work and when I went tot the ifi panel it disconnected.
  
 Right now re-plugging the device does nothing. (It does draw power though)
  

  
  
 I would consider upgrading my windows pc to windows 8 (or re-install windows7) if it the device worked on my macbook, but it doesn't work there either.
  
  
 EDIT:
 I removed all USB Devices following this guide: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/165554-usb-driver-general-fix-problems.html
 The difference is that I now get this at the end of driver installation: https://i.imgur.com/CpMA2sr.png


----------



## technobear

nopc0de said:


> So I just bought this 2 days ago and I still haven't been able to get this thing to work.




Did you charge the iDSD for 24 hours first before switching it on?


----------



## nopc0de

technobear said:


> Did you charge the iDSD for 24 hours first before switching it on?



Yes i did.
The battery is fine (i think) since it works with 3.5mm input while powered from battery.

Im currently reinstalling windows


----------



## technobear

nopc0de said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Did you charge the iDSD for 24 hours first before switching it on?
> ...




A dodgy cable is definitely a possibility. A few of the blue cables have had a slightly loose fit.

Can you try a different USB cable using the supplied adaptor?


----------



## nopc0de

technobear said:


> A dodgy cable is definitely a possibility. A few of the blue cables have had a slightly loose fit.
> 
> Can you try a different USB cable using the supplied adaptor?




Does it have to be usb3?


----------



## gr8soundz

nopc0de said:


> I managed to get to step 4 but when the audio skipped I rebooted and now its remaining undetected again.
> 
> EDIT: Did the entire loop again (Deinstall, Reboot, Install, Reboot, Replug, Reboot, Change BIOS settings*, boot)
> 
> ...


 
  
 The XHCI settings didn't make a difference to my install. Mine wouldn't install at first because the Micro driver requires that Windows Security must be ON to complete installation!
  
 If you try another usb cable (doesn't have to be 3.0) and both the PC and Mac still don't recognize the Micro it may have a defect (you'll need to open a ticket with iFi). I had to open a ticket because of the driver but my Micro is now my most reliable usb DAC (I've had worse issues with 2 others since).


----------



## nopc0de

Using a different cable with the supplied adapter makes it show up in osx but only delivers silence or crackling noise.

I installed windows8 and the device showed up once after driver install (no sound) tried to replug but now im back to getting nothing at all but a white LED


----------



## jacofman

Has anyone else had this issue: the IEMatch switch is constantly moving from "Off" to "High Sensitivity" whenever I move the unit. The switch doesn't seem loose but it is fairly easy to move it without much effort. This obviously degrades the sound if you're listening to traditional, relatively inefficient headphones. Please let me know if you do. As a precaution, if you feel like your unit is sounding lifeless with your headphones, check that switch. Otherwise, the iFi Micro iDSD ROCKS!

J.


----------



## ClieOS

jacofman said:


> Has anyone else had this issue: the IEMatch switch is constantly moving from "Off" to "High Sensitivity" whenever I move the unit. The switch doesn't seem loose but it is fairly easy to move it without much effort. This obviously degrades the sound if you're listening to traditional, relatively inefficient headphones. Please let me know if you do. As a precaution, if you feel like your unit is sounding lifeless with your headphones, check that switch. Otherwise, the iFi Micro iDSD ROCKS!
> 
> J.


 
  
 Have you used the rubber feet?


----------



## jacofman

I didn't think of that. That should solve the problem.. Thank you!

J.


----------



## Music Path

Great pairing with ifi micro ican, very musical and autorative/respectfull sound.


----------



## TigerOfSweden

Hi all,
  
 I went to my local audio store to have the Micro iDSD demoed, and I enjoyed the sound of this little thing!
 I took my Macbook PRO and my AKG Q701 to the store for the listening session.
 I fired up the Audio MIDI Setup to select the output format, but I got little confused about this.
 There are all possible sample rates along with the bit-depth to pick, I am now wondering if I have to
 always select the appropriate settings for the media files being played (I have mixed type files, 44.1kHz/16 to 192kHz/24).
 I don't want to up sampling neither down sampling, just want the true sample rate and bit depth to send to the Micro iDSD.
 I assumed if I select 768kHz/32, then all files will be up sampled? I don't want that to be the case.
 Any one here that have more info about this that can share with me?
  
 /T


----------



## aerosuffly

Yes, you have to open Audio MIDI Setup and select the output sampling rate of the iDSD that match your source. Or easier, download a trial version of Audirvana. It should switch the sampling rate automatically for you. Bit depth cannot be changed, but I think it just means that the DAC can process more data and should handle 24-bit correct. If you use Audirvana, there is an option for true integer mode.


----------



## iFi audio

tigerofsweden said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I went to my local audio store to have the Micro iDSD demoed, and I enjoyed the sound of this little thing!
> I took my Macbook PRO and my AKG Q701 to the store for the listening session.
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 OS X will always default to the highest possible bit rate.
  
 So with iTunes, it requires manual adjustment to ensure Bit-Perfect playback.
  
 You can either install Bit-Perfect (a payware add-on) or run something like Audirvana.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## TigerOfSweden

Thanks for your replies, I just installed the Audirvana Plus 2, and confirmed that the output sampling rate is matching the file being played.
 Now it is only the Micro iDSD missing, I will probably return to the store and purchase one later today 
  
 /T


----------



## hag6

*Help on setting up WASAPI in Foobar *micro idsd.

 MY PC is self built running Win 7 64. The Cpu: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz Quad-Core

 Hi

 I want to use WASAPI to play DSD files using foobar with my micro idsd. Currently I have set foobar Device to ASIO:foo_dsd_asio and DSD files play. If I change Device to WASAPI (event): Speakers (ifi (by AMR) HD+USB Audio) DSD tracks continue to play in foobar but output no sound. In fact if I set Device to ASIO: ifi (by AMR) HD USB Audio the sound also stops when playing DSD files.However if I change to WASAPI foobar will play other types of file such as flac or mp3.

 Is there a way of getting WASAPI to work.

 Many thanks

 Howard


----------



## TigerOfSweden

I purchased my Micro iDSD yesterday after work. 
 Tested with some free DSD files downloaded from L2 after have put the kids to bed.
 I had it powered by USB during that play around session, and connected it to a iPad
 charger when it was bed time.
 I am looking forward to this evening as the iDSD should be fully charged (24h of
 charging according the instructions), and ready to be used on battery mode!
  
 /T


----------



## technobear

hag6 said:


> Is there a way of getting WASAPI to work.




No.

You should be using ASIO, not WASAPI.

Step one: install foo_out_asio and foo_input_sacd:



Step two: configure the SACD plugin to play DSD natively:



Step three: configure foo_dsd_asio to use the iFi driver and to play DSD natively:



Step four: select foo_dsd_asio as the output device:



Everything should now play natively and at the correct bit-perfect sample rate.


----------



## hag6

Many thanks TB for your response. Your instructions are really useful. I have set up foobar exactly as you suggest but I am still curious as to why WASAPI dosen't work with DSD files.


----------



## obsidyen

Is there any way to use Asio while streaming from Deezer, Tidal etc?


----------



## BenWaB3

obsidyen said:


> Is there any way to use Asio while streaming from Deezer, Tidal etc?


 
 I would be interested in that as well. (Hi obsidyen - Iv'e been following your posts on the HiFiMan HE-400S thread with great interest  ).


----------



## hag6

Foobar works well with DSD files set to Asio however I cant play on line audio eg youtube nor can I hear audio when playing video on vlc.
  
 I checked settings in control panel>sound and when I right click to test the playback setting on ifi HD+USB Audio I get an error message :Failed to play test tone.
  
 Any advice gratefully received.


----------



## LoryWiv

You may need to exit (not just pause) FooBar before playing other media such as youtube video....that's what works for me.


----------



## gr8soundz

hag6 said:


> Foobar works well with DSD files set to Asio however I cant play on line audio eg youtube nor can I hear audio when playing video on vlc.
> 
> I checked settings in control panel>sound and when I right click to test the playback setting on ifi HD+USB Audio I get an error message :Failed to play test tone.
> 
> Any advice gratefully received.


 


lorywiv said:


> You may need to exit (not just pause) FooBar before playing other media such as youtube video....that's what works for me.


 
  
 Yeah, Foobar kind of highjacks whatever sound source your using while its open. If your using Windows (I mostly use Win8 Pro) look at the sound icon on the lower right of the desktop. When I open foobar the icon usually changes to a red X indicating no sound device in Windows (especially if I have Foobar set to transcode everything to DSD). It goes away after closing Foobar and I can get audio in Youtube, etc. through the Micro.
  
 Also, be sure to check the sample rate in sound properties and/or change to output in Foobar to something other than foo_dsd. I noticed when its set too high (like the max 32-bit/192Khz in Windows) and/or when Foobar is set to foo_dsd (which seems to have a partial global effect) Windows sometimes doesn't acknowledge the Micro as a global sound card. Lowering the sample rate and changing the output setting in Foobar to asio (then closing Foobar) seems to make it easier for Windows to see the Micro.


----------



## technobear

Yes, foobar should grab the sound device for its exclusive use. I usually find it's enough to STOP play in foobar.

VLC and browsers output to the default output device so if iFi is not the default sound device, you won't hear anything that way.

In VLC you can choose the sound device from the Audio menu but it won't remember it so you have to do it every time you start VLC.


----------



## TigerOfSweden

Hi again.
  
 I have now enjoying the iDSD for a couple of hours and one thing I am thinking is when in Preferences>Audio Systems of Audirvarna I can
 see all the supported format, but I can't see DSD512. Shouldn't DSD512 show up? I have played a DSD256 without problem, haven't found
 a DSD512 file yet.
  
 /T


----------



## gixxerwimp

> Originally Posted by *TigerOfSweden* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ... haven't found a DSD512 file yet.


 
  
 I posted this /img/forum/go_quote.gif  a few pages back.
 http://wechdomi.org/english/index.html
  
 I remember playing it successfuly with JRiver, but then foobar2k gave an error, so I deleted it.


----------



## iFi audio

tigerofsweden said:


> Hi again.
> 
> I have now enjoying the iDSD for a couple of hours and one thing I am thinking is when in Preferences>Audio Systems of Audirvarna I can
> see all the supported format, but I can't see DSD512. Shouldn't DSD512 show up? I have played a DSD256 without problem, haven't found
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 With regards to Audirvana, you are best sending an enquiry to Damien (really nice guy).
  
 There is not much audio playback software out there that plays DSD512 - Foobar, JRMC and HQ Player are a few that spring to mind.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## DonD

tigerofsweden said:


> Hi again.
> 
> I have now enjoying the iDSD for a couple of hours and one thing I am thinking is when in Preferences>Audio Systems of Audirvarna I can
> see all the supported format, but I can't see DSD512. Shouldn't DSD512 show up? I have played a DSD256 without problem, haven't found
> ...


 
  
 It will not play because DSD is encapsulated in PCM: that's is DoP, and to pass DSD256 it already uses the max 768kHz speed. The only way would be with a native ASIO driver that I haven't found for OS X and the iDSD.
 You could achieve DSD512 on Windows more easily (ASIO drivers available).


----------



## gr8soundz

dond said:


> It will not play because DSD is encapsulated in PCM: that's is DoP, and to pass DSD256 it already uses the max 768kHz speed. The only way would be with a native ASIO driver that I haven't found for OS X and the iDSD.
> You could achieve DSD512 on Windows more easily (ASIO drivers available).


 
  
 Must be the first time Windows has an advantage over Mac when it comes to audio capability (or software drivers at least).


----------



## aerosuffly

But where can you even get DSD512 now?
  
 I was experimenting with various gain and IEMatch settings, and it looks like you have to turn the volume pass 9 o'clock to make the amp start working properly. With normal gain and IEMatch off on HD600, there is channel imbalance until I turn pass 9 o'clock. Also, this setting produces more forward sound on HD600 than with IEMatch off and eco gain, which I found to be more spacious brighter. Is this just because of the change in output impedance?


----------



## iFi audio

iFi XMOS Firmware v4.10 is a go  







After having passed extensive testing, the iFi XMOS firmware version 4.10 is ready for public download.

This latest firmware v4.10 is unified (read: works on the following machines):

micro iDAC2
 RETRO Stereo 50
 micro iDSD
 nano iDSD

  

*XMOS Firmware v4.10 Improvements*

• Further enhancement/improvement of DoP playback which due to the nature of DSD playback on DoP, exhibits clicks/pops during track changes. The DoP click/pop is now negligible.

• Optimisation of the ‘Star-Clocking’ technology inside the XMOS.

• Better XMOS (8 Cores) load distribution.

• Various optimisations regarding muting.

• Improved compatibility with Mac OS for smoother operation.

• Unified firmware across nano iDSD, micro iDAC2, micro iDSD, RETRO Stereo 50

*Bug fixes*

• Fixed various minor bugs.



iFi XMOS Firmware version 4.10 is NOT suitable for: iDAC, iLINK, AMR DP-777. So please do NOT FLASH these machines with v4.10.

Non-iFi customers should NOT download this firmware for other non-iFI XMOS devices. This firmware is proprietary XMOS firmware and is for iFi-specified products only. You risk damage to your machine if you attempt to flash your non-iFi XMOS dac with this firmware.


 Link for the firmware is contained here: http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idac2-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## chawya22

Excellent results with Firmware 4.10 on a MBP running 10.10.4 and Audirvana 2.1.1. No clicks or pops playing DSD128 files. Thank You iFi!


----------



## iFi audio

chawya22 said:


> Excellent results with Firmware 4.10 on a MBP running 10.10.4 and Audirvana 2.1.1. No clicks or pops playing DSD128 files. Thank You iFi!


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Thanks a lot. Fundamentally, one is playing DSD on a PCM platform.
  
 The DoP 'click/pop' effects OS X more so because on Win, ASIO pretty much had this this issue licked.
  
 But as OS X runs Core Audio - we needed a quite unconventional solution. As the downstream DAC is able to resolve an upstream PC issue.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## gixxerwimp

ifi audio said:


> iFi XMOS Firmware v4.10 is a go




Is there any chance this update will affect compatibility with different android phones, either positively or negatively? I don't want to lose system audio with my Note 3 and micro-idsd, but I also wouldn't mind *having* system audio with my Galaxy S3.

Is it possible to roll back the FW if we don't like the result?


----------



## ClieOS

gixxerwimp said:


> Is there any chance this update will affect compatibility with different android phones, either positively or negatively? I don't want to lose system audio with my Note 3 and micro-idsd, but I also wouldn't mind *having* system audio with my Galaxy S3.
> 
> Is it possible to roll back the FW if we don't like the result?


 
  
 I can confirm the new firmware is working just fine, on both nano and micro iDSD, with my Xperia Z2 - that includes the stock Sony USB DAC driver that comes with Walkman app, as well as UAPP and Onkyo HF Player.
  
 Also has no problem using them with Sony A10 series' OTG function.


----------



## technobear

gixxerwimp said:


> Is it possible to roll back the FW if we don't like the result?




Yes.


----------



## gr8soundz

Thanks @iFi audio for posting about the new firmware.
  
 Might be a good idea to also post the official method of flashing the firmware to minimize errors.


----------



## technobear

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks @iFi audio
> for posting about the new firmware.
> 
> Might be a good idea to also post the official method of flashing the firmware to minimize errors.




And remind people that it only works fully with the latest iFi USB driver v2.23 so anyone still using v2.20 will have to upgrade.


----------



## Tamirci

How can I keep this on and running without obscuring the usb input at the back?


----------



## gixxerwimp

technobear said:


> gr8soundz said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks @iFi audio
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for pointing this out. I'm running the v2.20 driver on my XP system (v2.23 wouldn't work). So no FW upgrade for me.


----------



## gr8soundz

gixxerwimp said:


> Thanks for pointing this out. I'm running the v2.20 driver on my XP system (v2.23 wouldn't work). So no FW upgrade for me.


 
  
 I may have to wait on the upgrade too.
  
 V2.23 wouldn't install on my Win8.1 laptop but 2.20 worked. Have to see if I can get 2.23 working on another machine plugged into my UPS (don't wanna risk a bricked Micro).


----------



## kurb1980

I upgraded yesterday both the USB driver and IDSD firmware updates and not a problem on Windows 8.1?


----------



## Franatic

I am using the micro in a 2 pc streamer w/ WS2012/AO/JPlay. Also using Kernel Streaming for playback.
  
 Firmware V4.10 upgraded smoothly and is a big hit here. Gone is the annoying huge pop I was getting at the beginning and end of DSD playback. I think it also improved sound quality a little. I am detecting a bit more depth and improved imaging. Even small SQ gains are appreciated.
  
 Kudos on the firmware 4.10 upgrade. Thanks, ifi.


----------



## DonD

technobear said:


> And remind people that it only works fully with the latest iFi USB driver v2.23 so anyone still using v2.20 will have to upgrade.


 
  
 I'm on Mac but have a rather old laptop running Windows 7 Professional SP1.
 v2.23 wouldn't install, tried verbal times but ended always with an error. So I installed v2.20 after my attempts without uninstalling previous version, letting the setup do it for me.
 I then tried the upgrade and to my surprise, it went flawless!
 So I don't know where this requirement for v2.23 does come from...


----------



## lucidreamer

I don't think 2.23 works with all systems that run Windows 8.1. It does install fine but the USB driver is not loading (see screenshot). I tried both update from 2.20 and uninstall 2.20 first, same thing. 2.20 is running just fine on my ASUS 8.1 laptop, but not 2.23. On my other HP laptop with Windows 7 - 2.23 is running great, I plugged iDSD to that machine to upgrade the firmware.
  
 iFi would need to look into this issue at some point of time.


----------



## gixxerwimp

The *SUPRA USB 2.0 Cable* was recommended to me. I'm a bit of a cable skeptic in general, but I can see how different impedances could affect the colour/signature or analog signals. Was highly doubtful that a USB cable could make a difference, but they have one at my local headphone shop.
  
 I first bought a cable at the local electronics market for US$2.50, then went to the headphone store and connected my ThinkPad the iDAC2. Listened with my ER-4Ss (P-to-S adapter) and ran through a few tracks. Totally not expecting to hear any difference, imagine my surprise when a small detail that I hadn't heard before ​in Adele's Set Fire to the Rain became apparent. I quickly switched back to the el cheapo cable and the detail was there, but not as clear and not in the same place spatially. Ambient noise level was pretty high in the store, but the Etys knocked it down to a whisper. I didn't do an extended comparison, but the bass seemed not boosted as one review said. I found it possibly a bit tighter. Who'da thunk it? Digital cables make a difference. Albeit a very small difference.
 
 ​I guess if I was spending 4 figures on a DAC and/or putting together a 5 figure 2-channel system, I'd go the extra yard on "quality" cables. But 25x the price for <1% improvement isn't justified in my situation, especially since the iDAC2 is for office use. However, I may consider having someone like Forza do a custom OTG cable for my micro iDSD.​ 
  
 Any recommendations on who can do a a hi-fi version of my self-modded OTG cable?


----------



## gr8soundz

I did the firmware update last night on a Win7 pc running v2.23 of the driver (had the same issue w/ 2.23 on Win8.1; had to install 2.20 on it).
  
 The update failed the first couple times until I put the Micro on battery power (as in turned it on before plugging in the usb cable). Then the updated worked. Just a heads up to anyone having a similar difficulty.


----------



## Music Path

gr8soundz said:


> I did the firmware update last night on a Win7 pc running v2.23 of the driver (had the same issue w/ 2.23 on Win8.1; had to install 2.20 on it).
> 
> The update failed the first couple times until I put the Micro on battery power (as in turned it on before plugging in the usb cable). Then the updated worked. Just a heads up to anyone having a similar difficulty.




Had a similar dificulty instaling driver on a older computer. Will try again. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Music Path

Tried myself the iDSD - iTube - iCan chain and what an amazment. A bigger diference then i thought and was reviwed before. Those class A amps make the sound quite fuller then on the iDSD, mantaining all the details.
It takes both SS and tubes advantages at the same time.
Will play with gear more, and make my personal review on the chain.


----------



## DonD

After v4.10 upgrade my iDSD is no longer going into "sleep" state when USB powered from my Mac (the LED is no longer starting to blink after a certain time without playing). Anybody else the same behavior?


----------



## Sound Eq

guys why with neutron player on android the light indicator is always yellow on ifi
  
 why is this upsampling always on how can i prevent upsampling


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> guys why with neutron player on android the light indicator is always yellow on ifi
> 
> why is this upsampling always on how can i prevent upsampling


 
  
 Tell us about your setup first before we can help.


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> why is this upsampling always on




Because Google made it that way.




sound eq said:


> how can i prevent upsampling




Use USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP).


----------



## osiris1

I use an app called HibyMusic and it samples correctly on the iFi...at least up till 24/192. I haven't tried DSDs yet.


----------



## TigerOfSweden

When can we expect IFI to release USB driver that enables DSD playback for Mac OS (like ASIO for Windows)?
 DSD playing is working for me on Macbook Pro with Audirvana, but it is done by encapsulating the stream inside PCM, DoP, right?
 And the Apple Coreaudio is still involded?
 Are any differences between DoP and DSD directly to iDSD micro? I don't have a computer running Windows to verify which
 one sounds the best playing DSD.
 Can some one that have done comparison shed a light with me?
  
 Cheers /T


----------



## Trogdor

tigerofsweden said:


> When can we expect IFI to release USB driver that enables DSD playback for Mac OS (like ASIO for Windows)?
> DSD playing is working for me on Macbook Pro with Audirvana, but it is done by encapsulating the stream inside PCM, DoP, right?
> And the Apple Coreaudio is still involded?
> Are any differences between DoP and DSD directly to iDSD micro? I don't have a computer running Windows to verify which
> ...




I think you misunderstand what DoP is. That is NATIVE DSD. It just moves the DSD bitstream within a PCM one but it is decoded natively as DSD. No driver needed.

On Audirvana, just select DoP and off you go.


----------



## DonD

trogdor said:


> I think you misunderstand what DoP is. That is NATIVE DSD. It just moves the DSD bitstream within a PCM one but it is decoded natively as DSD. No driver needed.
> 
> On Audirvana, just select DoP and off you go.


 

 The side effect of DoP is that the encapsulation requires additional bits and finally enables on Mac "only" DSD256.


----------



## Trogdor

dond said:


> The side effect of DoP is that the encapsulation requires additional bits and finally enables on Mac "only" DSD256.




Yes, "only"... sigh....


----------



## kurb1980

The problem(s) with DoP is the overhead it requires which can be taxing on the CPU and USB bus which can introduce excessive noise in the stream from the fan etc running in overdrive to keep up.  Second of course is the infamous click/pop that happens when DAC is in PCM mode and recognizes the DSD markers then switches from PCM to SDM creating that annoying click/pop.  Its still "Native" just a different way of transporting the DSD stream by encapsulating in PCM packet which tricks Core Audio.  Unfortunately DoP is limited to DSD256 on OSX "Core Audio" but the good news is DSD256 is the sweet spot of the iDSD Micro.  I tried both DSD512 and DSD256 not a huge difference in sound SQ a touch smoother a few slight subtleties overall nothing to really jumping out that differentiates the two sample rates.


----------



## rsdtrn

My micro idsd (FW 4.06) is connected to two devices; USB to Rpi2 running runeaudio and optical SPDIF to Minix 8H box. Using the two device always went without a glitch, meaning I can listen to Rpi2 and the Minix box back and forth without powering off any device. I could even use the two device and have sound from the two devices superimposing each other lol.
  
 After upgraded to FW 4.10 ,I couldn't get any sound from the Minix box unless I disconnect the attached Rpi2 USB or turn the power off of the Rpi2. But I can have sound from Rpi2 even whe minix box (SPDIF) is still attched to IDsd.
  
 It seems the Idsd USB FW 4.10 won't let the two inputs to work concurrently as in the case of FW 4.06.
 My temporary solution is to roll back to 4.06. I hope IFi can address this issue on next FW.
  
 Sorry for my english.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> Tell us about your setup first before we can help.


 
 my set up is simple
  
 xperia z ultra connected to ifi dsd and using neutron player, the light is always yellow on ifi no matter what bit rate of the recording i am listening to , so how i can play my files without being upsampled


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> my set up is simple
> 
> xperia z ultra connected to ifi dsd and using neutron player, the light is always yellow on ifi no matter what bit rate of the recording i am listening to , so how i can play my files without being upsampled


 
  
 Since early this year, the new audio driver in the Z series automatically up-samples everything  to 24/192 via Sony's HSEE engine. As far as I know, there is no way to disable it.
  
 There is however a way to work around it, and some already mentioned it - you need to use a third party app that has its own USB audio driver, that means either HibyMusic, Onkyo HF Player or USB Audio Player PRO. Since they don't rely on Sony's audio driver, you can get native playback.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> Since early this year, the new audio driver in the Z series automatically up-samples everything  to 24/192 via Sony's HSEE engine. As far as I know, there is no way to disable it.
> 
> There is however a way to work around it, and some already mentioned it - you need to use a third party app that has its own USB audio driver, that means either HibyMusic, Onkyo HF Player or USB Audio Player PRO. Since they don't rely on Sony's audio driver, you can get native playback.


 
 thanks now it makes sense


----------



## nopc0de

brooko said:


>


 
  
  


gr8soundz said:


>


 
  
  

  
  
 FYI - I've sent in the iDSD to an hifi shop in The Netherlands (http://www.daluso-audio.nl) at ifi's request.
It had problems recognizing digital formats and to be recoginized by a computer.
They exchanged all boards by new ones and also checked the digital format recognition and locking.
  
I have to say that the ifi support was very professional, clear and fast.


----------



## Brooko

Yep they are great with trying to get you back and running as quickly as possible.  Really good service IME.  When do you expect your unit back?  Fingers crossed that it solves all your issues.


----------



## nopc0de

I'll get it in 2 weeks (I'm on vacation).


----------



## gr8soundz

Glad to hear iFi standing behind its product.
  
 Hope your Micro works perfect from now on.


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> Since early this year, the new audio driver in the Z series automatically up-samples everything  to 24/192 via Sony's HSEE engine. As far as I know, there is no way to disable it.
> 
> There is however a way to work around it, and some already mentioned it - you need to use a third party app that has its own USB audio driver, that means either HibyMusic, Onkyo HF Player or USB Audio Player PRO. Since they don't rely on Sony's audio driver, you can get native playback.


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Right on the money.
  
 This is down to the way Sony has implemented Audio. It was in one of the recent software updates.
  
 The only solution is to use USB Audio Player Pro.
  
 Don't get us wrong, the Sony Hi-Res is still not bad sounding - its user interface is still slicker than UAPP so we still use it at shows for demos etc.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ClieOS

Yep, Xperia audio driver isn't bad at all. The fact that it transitions rather smoothly between internal DAC and external USB DAC is also a big plus in my book, and probably the best implementation among all the Android smartphone maker. Sometime I didn't even bother to fire up UAPP but just listen to the stock Walkman app.


----------



## Androb

I can't seem to find any info on this about working on windows 10. I just installed it but can't get the micro to work for me now  Anyone got any clue?


----------



## technobear

androb said:


> I can't seem to find any info on this about working on windows 10. I just installed it but can't get the micro to work for me now  Anyone got any clue?




No.

We have no clue what player software you are using.

We have no clue what drivers you have installed, if any.

We have no clue what settings you have configured in Windows, if any.

:rolleyes:


----------



## gixxerwimp

technobear said:


> androb said:
> 
> 
> > I can't seem to find any info on this about working on windows 10. I just installed it but can't get the micro to work for me now
> ...


----------



## Androb

technobear said:


> No.
> 
> We have no clue what player software you are using.
> 
> ...


 
 Nothing works. Not foobar2000, not tidal both web and computer player, not games. Nothing. I installed the driver found on ifis homepage and have it setup as same as it was on my win7.


----------



## technobear

androb said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > No.
> ...




Does the iFi driver show up in the foobar2000 preferences so that you can select it as the output device?

Edit: Does the iFi device show up in the Windows 'Sound' control panel?


----------



## Androb

technobear said:


> Does the iFi driver show up in the foobar2000 preferences so that you can select it as the output device?
> 
> Edit: Does the iFi device show up in the Windows 'Sound' control panel?


 
 Yep too both!

 Tried different outputs in foobar and my hegel dac works, but not my ifi.


----------



## technobear

androb said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Does the iFi driver show up in the foobar2000 preferences so that you can select it as the output device?
> ...




Forget foobar2000 for a moment (although you should use ASIO, not DS). The iDSD should be working in Windows. What happens if you 'Configure' the iFi driver in the 'Sound' control panel? Do you hear anything when you click the 'Test' button?


----------



## technobear

Actually a quick search on "windows 10 audio not working" seems to indicate that lots of people are having issues.

I suggest not installing Windows 10 for a while yet :rolleyes:


----------



## Androb

Mm just what I suspected. Gotta stick to my hegel for a while then


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> Actually a quick search on "windows 10 audio not working" seems to indicate that lots of people are having issues.
> 
> I suggest not installing Windows 10 for a while yet :rolleyes:




So do Ifi driver doesnt work on Windows 10 yet?


----------



## xrodx

music path said:


> So do Ifi driver doesnt work on Windows 10 yet?


 
 I will find out in a few hours I guess. Installing as we speak.


----------



## technobear

xrodx said:


> music path said:
> 
> 
> > So do Ifi driver doesnt work on Windows 10 yet?
> ...




You did make a 'Full System Image' backup first didn't you?


----------



## technobear

music path said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Actually a quick search on "windows 10 audio not working" seems to indicate that lots of people are having issues.
> ...




Not only the iFi driver but lots of others too. Looks like Microsoft has screwed up again. Shame.


----------



## Music Path

technobear said:


> Not only the iFi driver but lots of others too. Looks like Microsoft has screwed up again. Shame.




Thats bad, because i want to use this 1 st free month to instal it, but of course i do want the audio programs 
Lets see, maybie they improved the OS in audio


----------



## DonD

dond said:


> After v4.10 upgrade my iDSD is no longer going into "sleep" state when USB powered from my Mac (the LED is no longer starting to blink after a certain time without playing). Anybody else the same behavior?


 

 didn't see any answer... all your iDSD's with v4.10 are going into sleep when continuously powered?


----------



## xrodx

technobear said:


> You did make a 'Full System Image' backup first didn't you?


 
 Ok I'm back after the update, I can confirm the micro iDSD is working witouth any problem, tested with foobar2000, played, flac, pcm and DSD files no trouble at all. Only thing to keep in mind is that I disconnected de iDSD during the update and reconnected it after all was done. Jriver is asking me to reinstall the software because it was installed in a different OS.
  
 I'll be comenting anything weird I encounter, but so far we're good.


----------



## Music Path

xrodx said:


> Ok I'm back after the update, I can confirm the micro iDSD is working witouth any problem, tested with foobar2000, played, flac, pcm and DSD files no trouble at all. Only thing to keep in mind is that I disconnected de iDSD during the update and reconnected it after all was done. Jriver is asking me to reinstall the software because it was installed in a different OS.
> 
> I'll be comenting anything weird I encounter, but so far we're good.




So the driver does work with windows 10, 
or are you talking about Ifi's iDSD firmware update?


----------



## xrodx

music path said:


> So the driver does work with windows 10,
> or are you talking about Ifi's iDSD firmware update?


 
 Yep, the driver works on my windows 10 machine, by the way, my iDSD has the latest FW installed.
  
 But you know different systems can vary on behavior, i would recommend a reinstall of drivers after the update, and it would be cool if iFi personal commented on this matter.


----------



## gr8soundz

I can also confirm the Micro works with Windows 10.
  
 Updated the Micro to fw 4.10 a few days ago and last night I upgraded my Asus laptop from Win8.1 to 10 (32-bit).
  
 Didn't even have to reinstall the iFi driver or Foobar. Played several tracks (flac/wav/mp3) from 44 to 96khz and absolutely no problems (the Micro driver also correctly confirmed each sample rate). Haven't tried 192 or dsd yet but don't forsee any issues.
  
 I'll be trying 64-bit next but might wait a while until I know the upgrade won't cause any big issues on my desktop (wasn't too worried about the Asus; as my brother says I used it as a "crash test dummy"). Have a feeling some of the issues mentioned are due to 64-bits (like most previous versions of Windows just after release).


----------



## KritiKal

I've been using Windows 10 for a couple of months now (as an insider) and I can also confirm that it all does work without a hitch, and has worked since I first started using it.
 I had to reinstall MC20, but the iFi audio driver works with Windows fresh out of the box from an upgrade.
  
 Do upgrade to Windows 10, it is seriously good.


----------



## technobear

For those having issues with Windows 10 audio:

1. Open the 'Sound' control panel.

2. Select the iFi device.

3. Click 'Properties'.

4. Click the 'Advanced' tab.

5. Under default format, choose "16 bit, 44100 Hz (CD Quality)".

6. Click OK.

7. See if it now works


----------



## Androb

technobear said:


> For those having issues with Windows 10 audio:
> 
> 1. Open the 'Sound' control panel.
> 
> ...


 
 It actually does work now for me  But I tried this and it worked, and I switched back to 24bit and 192khz and it also works. 

 I had the first windows updates tonight installed, maybe that could have helped?


----------



## Choosy

Hi there

Do you think it is possible use an idsd to connect an iPod classic 5g rock boxed and in that way improve amp and dac session ?
Indeed iPod source warrant 10 hours of play and if modded also a huge room for flac files 

I have found an instruction where is suggested to connect the IPod vs the DAC using 30 pin USB photo adapter but it seems incorrect since micro IDSD should host USB male part ... Moreover I'm not sure if ROCKBOX presence make some difference in the iPod capacity to drive external dac ...

There is someone experienced into that ?

(I use hd650 nano is not good enough with me)

Regards


----------



## iancraig10

The photo adapter works with newer IPods. If digital data is coming through the 30 pin adapter then all it would need is a patch lead for the micro. Is there an adapter that terminates with a sub plug from the 30 pin plug that carries data?

The charging lead doesn't work.


----------



## maricius

choosy said:


> Hi there
> 
> Do you think it is possible use an idsd to connect an iPod classic 5g rock boxed and in that way improve amp and dac session ?
> Indeed iPod source warrant 10 hours of play and if modded also a huge room for flac files
> ...


 

 First of all, any iPod before the 6th Gen iPod Classic doesn't even work with DACs, such as the Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo, that have onboard capability to work with Apple devices (So no your iPod Classic won't work). Secondly, non "Apple" DACs need something like a smartphone/tablet and then the adapter to be able to function. Third, you can still utilise the iDSD with your Rockboxed iPod Classic 5g but only as an amplifier meaning you'd want a "iPod LOD to mini" interconnect.


----------



## iancraig10

Isn't it funny .... the number of times I'd seen digital out advertised from the dock connector on the older Ipods!! Just a simple line out. Great pity.


----------



## Choosy

Hi there

I do not or I cannot agree with you until a real test ....

First of all if someone remember the first digital transport made for iPod and all of them was working with Classic and touch ... Then I have found this documentation

https://www.elitediffusion.com/media/mconnect_uploadfiles/i/f/ifi_nano_idsd_apple_2_steps_.pdf

So case one they have a really rich fantasy ... Second it works ... Indeed I need to know if someone have succes or fails in first person 

Thanks


----------



## maricius

choosy said:


> Hi there
> 
> I do not or I cannot agree with you until a real test ....
> 
> ...


 

 I'm telling you this as I have an iPod Video (iPod Classic) 5.5g. That link you just posted, if you notice, it's for "smart" devices which the iPod Classic is not one. Also, the Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo which is designed for Apple devices even if they aren't "smart" devices only works with iPods starting from the Classic 6th Gen. It doesn't work with my 5.5g and it will surely not work with your 5g. You can choose not to believe me but I only state these as facts to help you and through my experience of years into this hobby.
  
 Feel free to prove me wrong though but I haven't seen it documented in this entire thread nor the other iFi Micro iDSD thread.


----------



## Choosy

Hi. With all the respect I can offer 

Document I have linked (brand as IFI in the top part of PDF) states iPod 4th and 5th nor 6 or older .... It would be a fake I agree but it easy to discover 

I cannot link the screenshot made with iPad to better point the area since I'm here with an iPad ... (-:


----------



## maricius

choosy said:


> Hi. With all the respect I can offer
> 
> Document I have linked (brand as IFI in the top part of PDF) states iPod 4th and 5th nor 6 or older .... It would be a fake I agree but it easy to discover
> 
> I cannot link the screenshot made with iPad to better point the area since I'm here with an iPad ... (-:


 

 Yes I saw that but I also saw in the review on the same site,
  
  
  
 Tell you what though, I'll try it out again later, after dinner.


----------



## maricius

FOR SCIENCE


----------



## Choosy

Thank you very much ..... Just sad a bit .... I have thought to have found a solution ... It means I'll buy also a gen 6 iPod a soon I found it for a decent price ...

I have a question do you have experience with 300 ohms headphone ? it is enough loud ?


----------



## maricius

choosy said:


> Thank you very much ..... Just sad a bit .... I have thought to have found a solution ... It means I'll buy also a gen 6 iPod a soon I found it for a decent price ...
> 
> I have a question do you have experience with 300 ohms headphone ? it is enough loud ?


 

 Using the Micro iDSD as a DAC/amp or as a standalone amp, power is no question. However, If you're going to go for an amp only solution, the Micro iDSD isn't the best for the price. If you're set on using a new iPod instead of a smartphone/smart device or some other DAP (with a digital out), may I suggest you also check out the Cypher Labs Theorem and the offerings from VentureCraft and Centrance. I can't speak in depth with those devices though. Good luck. 
  
 Oh and no, the iPod cannot power a 300Ω headphone.


----------



## Choosy

Hi there

I have a FIIO 3 2nd , the iPod 5th the fiio A12 and an. 02. The headphone I have with me are the 650 . iPod classic is working well with HD 650. What miss me in lack of amplication is the body, I have learned especially with headphone how much powerful means also dynamic, rich and in some case tasty.

I'm really curios of IDSD but I'm without source, sound of fiio lack of breath even linked to the desktop teac Ud 501 I guess is a Software issue... I have also a mobile (android) as any human.... crappy sound from there too despite the dac and the player ... Best listening now is iPod + O2 ...the objective is less detailed than the Fiio a12 but is more powerful and dynamic ... Since I prefer dynamics to details  ok let's stop here since I'm here to ask about Idsd

First of all sad to say IDSD in my country costs the 20% more than USA ... But despite this, if it is only a better Amp than the ones I have it would be an interesting solution too...

Either as dac than as an amp I'm Really curios about is sound signature, About compatibility with iPod classic 6 and about how much power is provided against 300 ohms impedance which is an info unclear from specs I found ... I have attempted to have a try session but after long conversation and a number of promises from local distributor I have obtained no results so here to learn about your experience


----------



## Tobias89

choosy said:


> Hi there
> 
> I have a FIIO 3 2nd , the iPod 5th the fiio A12 and an. 02. The headphone I have with me are the 650 . iPod classic is working well with HD 650. What miss me in lack of amplication is the body, I have learned especially with headphone how much powerful means also dynamic, rich and in some case tasty.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Perhaps if you're looking for a amp only, ifi does have the iCAN series or even the iTUBE, that will be cheaper or about the same price (in the case of iTUBE). Personally, I feel that these two offerings from ifi are better if you only need an amp only solution. Otherwise, as @maricius has mentioned, there are many amp solutions out there in the price range of the iDSD.


----------



## gixxerwimp

tobias89 said:


> choosy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi there
> ...


 
  
 The micro iDSD is a bit more expensive, but both the DAC and amp sections offer a lot more in the way of features and adjustability (=flexibility). It handles any kind of digital input you can throw at it, and the amp is adjustable with both power and gain settings (what iFi calles "iEMatch"). So it can be used with anything from sensitive IEMs to the power hungry HiFiMAN HE-6. I tried it recently with HD 800s (300Ω) and had the power setting on Normal and iEMatch "Off" in order to get to 12 o'clock on the volume knob. With most other phones, I have the power setting on Eco and iEMatch either "Off" or "High Sensitivity".
  
 The iCAN (nano and micro) have gain settings, but I don't know if they provide enough adjustability to allow use with more sensitive phones. The iDAC2 I just bought has NO gain settings, and I usually can't get past 9 o'clock for reasonable levels, which is just beyond where the channel imbalance goes away, and is nowhere near the recommended 12-3 o'clock sweet spot. Here's a post from someone who bought an iCAN, couldn't use it with their sensitive IEMs. I too am looking for some attenuation adapters for use with my iDAC2.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/695086/ifi-nano-ican-name-that-attenuator-competition-winner-no-1-winner-of-ican-nano-is/435#post_10943462
  
 As for sound signature, I can't really help you there. I haven't noticed that much difference between the amps I've heard, only that having a good one helps make the music sound more dynamic and less flat feeling compared to directly driven by a phone or PC.


----------



## maricius

choosy said:


> Hi there
> 
> I have a FIIO 3 2nd , the iPod 5th the fiio A12 and an. 02. The headphone I have with me are the 650 . iPod classic is working well with HD 650. What miss me in lack of amplication is the body, I have learned especially with headphone how much powerful means also dynamic, rich and in some case tasty.
> 
> ...


 

 Again if you're serious on the iDSD with a non "smart" Apple Device, I suggest you check out https://www.cypherlabs.com/products/algorhythm-solo-r/ or a similar VentureCraft product which allows the digital signal to be extracted from the iPod and output through the SPDIF/Coaxial Out then connecting it to the SPDIF/Coaxial In of the iDSD. It's not very cost effective though unless you can find a nice cheap secondhand VentureCraft or Solo.


----------



## syedhuz

Hi Guys
  
 I have recently pulled the trigger on HD 650 & iFi micro IDSD. I will be playing music from my Samsung note 4. Kindly let me know how to properly use this setup . Should i connect my note 4 to Ifi via line in or USB OTG . Appreciate your quick response guys.


----------



## Turrican2

syedhuz said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I have recently pulled the trigger on HD 650 & iFi micro IDSD. I will be playing music from my Samsung note 4. Kindly let me know how to properly use this setup . Should i connect my note 4 to Ifi via line in or USB OTG . Appreciate your quick response guys.




USB! Otherwise you are not using the iDSDs glorious dacs! I use this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00B4GGW5Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1438777853&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=micro+usb+otg+female&dpPl=1&dpID=41rZu34Yh5L&ref=plSrch


----------



## gixxerwimp

turrican2 said:


> syedhuz said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Guys
> ...


 
  
 The best part of the micro iDSD is the DAC. The amp is great too, with total flexibility WRT power and gain. You're Note 4 should be able to output system audio via USB so no special apps like UAPP or Hiby are required.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/3450
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5685#post_11042764
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/6270#post_11301486


> A list of standard USB DAC reportedly interworking with the Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy Note4:
> stock Samsung Galaxy Note4 > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable (ID pin grounded) >> USB DAC >> amp >> headphones
> http://goo.gl/gnmvuf


----------



## kameenadesi

i have both the iCAN Micro and iDSD Micro. What's the best way to burn-in the iDSD Micro? 

is it better to plug a headphone only into iDSD Micro's headphone jack and play music through it.

OR bypass the amp in the iDSD Micro and connect it to the iCAN Micro via RCA cables, and then plug a headphone into the iCAN Micro's headphone jack and playing music....?


----------



## technobear

kameenadesi said:


> i have both the iCAN Micro and iDSD Micro. What's the best way to burn-in the iDSD Micro?
> 
> is it better to plug a headphone only into iDSD Micro's headphone jack and play music through it.
> 
> OR bypass the amp in the iDSD Micro and connect it to the iCAN Micro via RCA cables, and then plug a headphone into the iCAN Micro's headphone jack and playing music....?




Borrow a second pair of headphones and do both at the same time 

Also remember that the 3D and XBASS circuits will need burn-in too.

Although they get better throughout the usual 200 hours, the iFi kit sounds pretty good after just a few hours so just listen to it.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *syedhuz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> "Thanks a million ... this truly is a helpful forum."


 
  
 You're welcome. When you get your micro, you'll also want to know how to optimize the power and iEMatch settings. Read this page:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4050
 And this post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4065#post_11730523
  
 My Note 3 + micro iDSD stack (_Look, Ma ... no bands!!!_):
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4005#post_11708695
  
 My modded OTG cable:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4020#post_11723315
  
 And if you haven't read it already, the _Crowd-Designed_ thread has lots of useful and detailed info about the design and features of the micro iDSD (TOC at the top of p. 1).
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/


----------



## JamesBr

maricius said:


> FOR SCIENCE


 
  
 Hahaha Excellent! Good to know!


----------



## TigerOfSweden

Hi
  
 I have some questions about battery/charging, as I understand from this thread and the user manual, if I turn on the Micro iDSD before connecting it to
 USB port on a powered on computer, it will use the internal battery.
 And the other way around, if I connect it to the computer and then power it on, it will use the power from the computer and charge the internal battery if needed (on
 ECO and normal mode).
  
 But, what if I disconnect it after a listening session, without turning it off on the volume knob, and later, say after one hour, I reconnect it to the computer?
 Will it consider be powered from battery or USB? 
 It should going into sleep mode after a period of time, right? The LED is flashing green.
  
  
 /T


----------



## gixxerwimp

tigerofsweden said:


> Hi
> 
> I have some questions about battery/charging, as I understand from this thread and the user manual, if I turn on the Micro iDSD before connecting it to
> USB port on a powered on computer, it will use the internal battery.
> ...


 
  
According to this post, in Normal mode there is no charging current available and the battery may eventually go flat due to audio peak demands that can't be met by USB power.
  
And this post describes the battery mode LED behaviour. If it's flashing green, it's "sleeping and not charging". My guess is that if it's turned on and doesn't detect a device cable of charging it, then it will stay in battery mode until it's powered off and then on again. I just tried it with mine connecting to my PC and it just went to sleep (flashing green) after the following:
  

Turn on micro (flashing green)
Plug into PC (steady on)
Unplug with power still on (flashing green)
Plug back into PC without touching the volume knob (steady on)
After a few minutes, sleep mode (flashing green)


----------



## TigerOfSweden

Thank you for your reply gixxerwimp.
  
 I have then been using on the battery since Monday...as I have not turn it off since Monday, just disconnect it when
 I leave home in the morning and reconnect it when arrive to the office, and the same procedure when leaving office...
 And during this period I have not connected the Micro iDSD to my iPad charger, in fact, I have only charged it with the iPad charger once, when I first bought it and on the initial charge for 24 hours.
  
 That's why I posted my question, I was thinking maybe in the time between it being disconnected and reconnected, it goes
 to sleep and considered to be power off, and then when reconnects to the computer, it the the same as the scenario of
 being power on after connecting to computer and it will use USB power...that's why the battery lasted so long...
  
  
 I don't understand why I don't need to recharge the Micro iDSD at all....
  
 /T


----------



## iFi audio

Just for a bit of Friday fun...guess where this is...


----------



## gixxerwimp

tigerofsweden said:


> I don't understand why I don't need to recharge the Micro iDSD at all....
> 
> /T




One thing I forgot to mention, if I plug it into my Note 3 while turned on and the music stops playing long enough for it to go to sleep, it switches to charging mode (blue LED). In this situation, I don't know what mode it goes into after I start playing music again. As I don't want to charge it off my phone, I usually unplug/replug it if this happens. It's not supposed to charge off of portables, but they seem to have set the threshold quite low as both my iPad and Note 3 will charge the micro. 

I don't usually leave it plugged into my PC, and I haven't paid close attention to what happens in all the scenarios we've been discussing. It's midnight here so I'll test it tomorrow. But the reason that you haven't needed to charge it might be that it goes into sleep mode after playing music. In the test I did above, I didn't actually send any music to it. 

If the LED lights blue, it's charging, as I understand it.


----------



## gixxerwimp

ifi audio said:


> Just for a bit of Friday fun...guess where this is...




Same guess as in the iDAC2 thread: Hong Kong. Or maybe the placards are from Hong Kong and it's Guangdong.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-is-here-friday-fun-what-is-that-headphone-in-idac2-stack-also-free-dsd-pcm-album-see-page-21/465#post_11819236


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> Same guess as in the iDAC2 thread: Hong Kong. Or maybe the placards are from Hong Kong and it's Guangdong.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-is-here-friday-fun-what-is-that-headphone-in-idac2-stack-also-free-dsd-pcm-album-see-page-21/465#post_11819236


 
  
 You are to quick on the draw:
  

  
 Everyone is invited to the D-1000 + iDAC2 stack. You wont be disappointed.


----------



## TigerOfSweden

I forget to mention in previous posts that the Micro iDSD never went into sleep mode while connected to my laptop, as I am trying to get thru a burning in period, I always
 load a playlist long enough for the overnight session, and during the day at work, I leave the music playing even if I am not currently listening.
 I just disconnect it during the relocation of home and office, not turning it off by the volume knob lately, and that is why the question arise how come the battery haven't
 being discharged yet over 5 days of use...
  
 /T


----------



## ElephantTLK

Is this good combination for T1? I am asking because i really dont like my modded DacMagic with Meier Corda Concerto combination. Sound is too thin, light and sometimes sibilant.
 Is iFi Micro iDSD good for T1 as amp AND dac?


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> One thing I forgot to mention, if I plug it into my Note 3 while turned on and the music stops playing long enough for it to go to sleep, it switches to charging mode (blue LED). In this situation, I don't know what mode it goes into after I start playing music again. As I don't want to charge it off my phone, I usually unplug/replug it if this happens. It's not supposed to charge off of portables, but they seem to have set the threshold quite low as both my iPad and Note 3 will charge the micro.
> 
> I don't usually leave it plugged into my PC, and I haven't paid close attention to what happens in all the scenarios we've been discussing. It's midnight here so I'll test it tomorrow. But the reason that you haven't needed to charge it might be that it goes into sleep mode after playing music. In the test I did above, I didn't actually send any music to it.
> 
> If the LED lights blue, it's charging, as I understand it.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You can thank Samsung.
  
 Recent Smartphones/Tablets have started to add 500mA outputs on OTG, so the micro DSD cannot tell them from PCs...
  
 So your Note 3 is sending 500mA down the USB line and the micro is 'charging' from it. But don't rely on this to recharge the Meaty Monster.


----------



## gixxerwimp

tigerofsweden said:


> I forget to mention in previous posts that the Micro iDSD never went into sleep mode while connected to my laptop, as I am trying to get thru a burning in period, I always
> load a playlist long enough for the overnight session, and during the day at work, I leave the music playing even if I am not currently listening.
> I just disconnect it during the relocation of home and office, not turning it off by the volume knob lately, and that is why the question arise how come the battery haven't
> being discharged yet over 5 days of use...
> ...




When I burned in my new ZMF Blackwoods and micro, I had it plugged into my iPad in battery mode and playing on a constant loop. The micro ran out of juice in about 6 hours on Normal. If yours is not running out of power, then for some reason it must not be running in battery mode.




ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You can thank Samsung.
> 
> ...




Why is it that when I'm using it with my PC in battery mode (turned on b4 plugging in) and the music stops, it goes into sleep mode (green flashing), but when I'm plugged into my Note 3 in battery mode and the music stops for a minute or 2, it immediately starts charging (blue LED)? Why is the behaviour different if it can't tell my Note 3 from a PC? I would prefer the iDSD not to charge from my Note 3 when it sleeps, if on battery mode (which is how I always use it with portable sources).

Edit: The battery died last night (playback stopped, flashing red) and I plugged it into my PC in battery mode. I first turned it off then back on which seemed to reset the low battery status. I played some music, stopped foobar, then went to bed. When I got up to check it several hours later, the LED was flashing green, indicating sleep/not charging. I then plugged it into my Note 3 without turning it off/on and have been listening for well over an hour. So either the low battery shutdown last night was premature, or sleep mode (flashing green) connected to a PC also charges it, which doesn't explain why Swedish Tiger's unit has never drained its battery, since it's always playing music and never sleeps.


----------



## gixxerwimp

elephanttlk said:


> Is this good combination for T1? I am asking because i really dont like my modded DacMagic with Meier Corda Concerto combination. Sound is too thin, light and sometimes sibilant.
> Is iFi Micro iDSD good for T1 as amp AND dac?




I brought my micro iDSD down to a local headphone store to try it with some different phones and happened to listen to the T1 and T1 Annie. Both were still bright, but not unpleasant sounding, and I'm rather sensitive to sibilance. The Annie has a more refined sound and slightly smoother highs, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hefty surcharge.


----------



## ElephantTLK

Thanks for information. So T1 with micro iDSD still sound bright? Would you recommend buying it for T1 or should i look elsewhere? I dont want to spend fortune but i still need decent amp/dac. Possibly combined like micro iDSD is.


----------



## gixxerwimp

elephanttlk said:


> Thanks for information. So T1 with micro iDSD still sound bright? Would you recommend buying it for T1 or should i look elsewhere? I dont want to spend fortune but i still need decent amp/dac. Possibly combined like micro iDSD is.


 
  
 I think the T1 is inherently bright (or has some treble peaks) from what I've read and what I've heard personally. Everyone's ears are different, so it's impossilbe for me to advise. If you find the T1s overly bright and sibilant (which I think is in their nature), then a DAC/amp isn't really going to completely fix the problem. Have you checked the T1 thread (I'm assuming there is one) for recommendations?
  
 Your best bet would be to try the T1 with the micro iDSD before you buy it. I can't see where you're located from your profile, but most sellers offer a trial period during which you can return it if you're not happy. So if you can't find one to demo, that's your best option. Note that the filter settings playing PCM content do very little (to my ears), and won't be able to tone down the highs. In DSD mode however, the filters have a very significant effect and you can adjust the upper-mids/highs a lot. One way to use this would be to convert everything PCM (flac, wav, mp3) to DSD in foobar2k or JRiver to send to the iDSD. This isn't an option for mobile sources, but if you're always listening from a PC/Mac, then that's a viable option. So is EQ. So is modding your T1s: http://www.head-fi.org/t/612796/guide-how-to-properly-dampen-your-beyerdynamic-t1/90


----------



## GrahamL

Is anyone else here using the public beta of iOS 9, and finding that they can't use anything over 24/96 with their iDSD Micro?

Everything up to 24/96 works well, as usual, but anything over that (inc DSD64 over DoP) results in no audio. The Micro detects the correct bit rate (LED turns yellow or blue as appropriate) but there's no sound.

This is with the native music app and NePLAYER, both of which worked beautifully with iOS 8.

Hopefully just a pre-release driver issue...


----------



## ElephantTLK

gixxerwimp said:


> I think the T1 is inherently bright (or has some treble peaks) from what I've read and what I've heard personally. Everyone's ears are different, so it's impossilbe for me to advise. If you find the T1s overly bright and sibilant (which I think is in their nature), then a DAC/amp isn't really going to completely fix the problem. Have you checked the T1 thread (I'm assuming there is one) for recommendations?
> 
> Your best bet would be to try the T1 with the micro iDSD before you buy it. I can't see where you're located from your profile, but most sellers offer a trial period during which you can return it if you're not happy. So if you can't find one to demo, that's your best option. Note that the filter settings playing PCM content do very little (to my ears), and won't be able to tone down the highs. In DSD mode however, the filters have a very significant effect and you can adjust the upper-mids/highs a lot. One way to use this would be to convert everything PCM (flac, wav, mp3) to DSD in foobar2k or JRiver to send to the iDSD. This isn't an option for mobile sources, but if you're always listening from a PC/Mac, then that's a viable option. So is EQ. So is modding your T1s: http://www.head-fi.org/t/612796/guide-how-to-properly-dampen-your-beyerdynamic-t1/90


 
 Thanks for help. I live in Europe and in my country there is no seller for micro iDSD. So its harder to demo this. I am always listening from PC/laptop yes. Will see.... If i will sell DacMagic and Corda Concerto then maybe i will buy iDSD. Or i will keep Corda Concerto and buy micro iDAC2 to pair with... Dont know.


----------



## gr8soundz

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You can thank Samsung.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It doesn't fully charge but the Micro does a good job of depleting my Note 3's battery. Wish there was a way to disable usb charging on the Micro (like my Fiio E17). Perhaps the next iFi firmware could allow for this via software, similar to changing the usb sample rate.


----------



## gixxerwimp

gr8soundz said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
  
 I figured out why the micro goes into pure charging mode (blue LED) when the music pauses for more than a minute or so on my Note 3. It must stop communicating the the micro as a USB signal source, and only send power to it. Therefore, the micro thinks it's now connected to a USB charger and starts charging. In the case of connecting to a PC in battery mode, the PC always "talks" to the micro as a USB sound card, even though it's not sending any data.
  
 This is all conjecture on my part, but it's consistent with the behaviour I'm seeing. Now if we could only figure out why TigerOfSweden's micro never seems to discharge completely in battery mode


----------



## gr8soundz

Hey Gixxer, I just found this app that I'll be trying out later:
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.MI.otglock
  
 App is supposed to keep communication open to the otg connection and prevent idling. Gonna see it it works on my Note 3 to stop the Micro from charging.


----------



## TigerOfSweden

Now after one more overnight's playing, the Micrso iDSD's LED was flashing green when I connected it to my laptop, it was approximately 11 hours ago, it is still playing...
 Running on Normal mode, with my AKG Q71, the battery seems never run out of juice...
  
 As the LED was flashing green before I plug it in to the computer, I can assume it's the same as turning on power before connecting to computer case, and then it should
 run on battery, right? Then the battery also should last for 9 hours, but it is still live after 11 hours continuously playing...
  
 Maybe my Micro iDSD has a super duper power battery? 
  
 /T


----------



## gixxerwimp

tigerofsweden said:


> Maybe my Micro iDSD has a super duper power battery?


 
  
 No, I think iFi accidentally shipped you a pre-production unit with a built-in fusion reactor.


----------



## gixxerwimp

gr8soundz said:


> Hey Gixxer, I just found this app that I'll be trying out later:
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.MI.otglock
> 
> App is supposed to keep communication open to the otg connection and prevent idling. Gonna see it it works on my Note 3 to stop the Micro from charging.


 
  
 Not sure that the app is intended to address our situation, as the description seems to imply that it prevents the phone from going to sleep and _keeps_ power output going to the OTG device. But it probably won't hurt to try it out.


----------



## USAudio

tigerofsweden said:


> Now after one more overnight's playing, the Micrso iDSD's LED was flashing green when I connected it to my laptop, it was approximately 11 hours ago, it is still playing...
> Running on Normal mode, with my AKG Q71, the battery seems never run out of juice...
> 
> As the LED was flashing green before I plug it in to the computer, I can assume it's the same as turning on power before connecting to computer case, and then it should
> run on battery, right? Then the battery also should last for 9 hours, but it is still live after 11 hours continuously playing...




If running from the battery it will detect the USB current and attempt to draw power to charge the battery.


----------



## gixxerwimp

gixxerwimp said:


> gr8soundz said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Gixxer, I just found this app that I'll be trying out later:
> ...


 
  
 I just tried it and it seems like the micro goes into "sleep mode" (flashing green), rather than to straight charging (blue). So I guess it's having the desired effect. I'll leave it plugged in for a while and monitor the phone's battery drain rate.
  
 The app only seems to have a "start" and "stop" function. I started it before plugging in the micro.
  
 There's still the issue of audio garbling if paused for more than a moment, requiring an un/replug of the USB cable, but I think that's more of a USB audio stop/start compatibility issue between phone and DAC. But at least it won't start draining the battery if left plugged in without music playing.
  
 Good find, *gr8soundz!*
  
*Edit: *Spoke too soon. It changed to charging mode and started drawing 1800mA from the Note 3.


----------



## gr8soundz

Just tried the app as well. Looks like it only solves part of the problem: stops the iFi from sleeping (could be good for preventing skips and stuttering over android usb; will have to test further).
  
 Started the app, turned on the Micro, then connected the otg cable. Left the Micro on for like 30min. The green light stayed steady and my Note's battery only dropped 1-2% (would normally lose 10-15% over that time).
  
 But, as soon as I turn the Micro off, the blue light comes on and I lose 5% battery in under 10min.
  
 So the app (don't think it was made exactly for this purpose) succeeds in preventing battery drain on the android source ONLY if you leave the Micro turned on. The Micro won't sleep which will no doubt drain its battery faster (not sure how long it'll last like that). Otherwise, still have to disconnect the otg cable to save both batteries.


----------



## gixxerwimp

gr8soundz said:


> Just tried the app as well. Looks like it only solves part of the problem: stops the iFi from sleeping (could be good for preventing skips and stuttering over android usb; will have to test further).
> 
> Started the app, turned on the Micro, then connected the otg cable. Left the Micro on for like 30min. The green light stayed steady and my Note's battery only dropped 1-2% (would normally lose 10-15% over that time).
> 
> ...


 

 For me, it seemed to go into sleep mode (flashing green) after a few minutes (longer than without the OTG Lock app), but after about 30 minutes it went into full charging mode (blue).
  
 If you turn the micro off while it's plugged into anything (phone or PC), I don't think there's any way to prevent it from charging.


----------



## gr8soundz

As long as I turned it on before connecting, my Micro never went into sleep mode with the app active. However, I didn't run UAPP or any other music app so I'll try that.
  
 There's gotta be some reason we're getting different results with such similar setups. I'm guessing settings:
  
 My Micro is set to normal mode, IE match off, and direct (not preamp; shouldn't make any difference here though since we're not using the line out). Running firmware 4.10.
 My Note 3 is stock with android 5.0.
  
 Also, have you tried using a different otg cable just to see if the Micro behaves the exact same way with both?

 Just had a thought to try the Note in power saving mode too (without the otg app running). Gonna see if the Micro still tries to charge or if the stock power saver prevents it.


----------



## gixxerwimp

gr8soundz said:


> As long as I turned it on before connecting, my Micro never went into sleep mode with the app active. However, I didn't run UAPP or any other music app so I'll try that.
> 
> There's gotta be some reason we're getting different results with such similar setups. I'm guessing settings:
> 
> ...


 

 Far too many variables. I use Poweramp (to play files from the external SD card) and DS audio (to stream from my Synology NAS). Still running 4.4.2 (I hate upgrade "surprises"). Rooted with stock ROM. Power Saving on - micro still charges.
  
 Usually set power to Eco with iEMatch off or High Sensitivity. Haven't done the firmware update yet on the iDSD (though I have on my iDAC2). Not tried another OTG cable, don't see how this would make any difference.
  
 I only tried the OTG Lock app using the settings/apps I usually use. If it doesn't work that way, then I don't have any use for it.


----------



## gr8soundz

Got the same result with power save mode as well. Micro still charges when powered down.
  
 Also ran UAPP along with the app. Played a song then paused it and let everything sit for about 15min. Green light stayed solid but my Note's battery dropped about 8% (less drain compared to when blue light is on; could be from UAPP running).
  
 I think the difference must be the Note's ROM and/or the Micro's firmware. But even with 5.0 and the newer firmware, the app only partially solves 1 part of the problem. Was worth a try.


----------



## TigerOfSweden

Last evening, I turn the Micro iDSD off on the knob and then on again before plug it in to my computer for a long play session over night.
 Now in the morning, the Micro iDSD was off when I woke up, the battery is finally discharged!
 So, I guess during this week when I never turn it off on the volume knob, and disconnecting and reconnecting it to my laptop, it use the USB power all the time.
 It must have remember the state even if it was on (LED flashing green) before connecting to laptop, I don't remember the start sequence on last Monday, it might
 have been first connecting to laptop and then power on by volume knob.
  
 So, sadly, IFI didn't ship me a pre-production unit with fusion reactor built-in, gixxerwimp!
  
 /T


----------



## kameenadesi

technobear said:


> Borrow a second pair of headphones and do both at the same time
> 
> Also remember that the 3D and XBASS circuits will need burn-in too.
> 
> Although they get better throughout the usual 200 hours, the iFi kit sounds pretty good after just a few hours so just listen to it.




thanks technobear, the pair is starting to sound good after some burn-in


----------



## diamondears

Does any of you exoerienced losing sound on one channel (right for me) on the micro iDSD? No right channel using the HP out and as pre-amp. But as direct DAC it mode no problem.

What's wrong with my unit? Is there a simple fix, or do i need to send it to iFi for servicing?


----------



## ClieOS

diamondears said:


> Does any of you exoerienced losing sound on one channel (right for me) on the micro iDSD? No right channel using the HP out and as pre-amp. But as direct DAC it mode no problem.
> 
> What's wrong with my unit? Is there a simple fix, or do i need to send it to iFi for servicing?


 
  
 You should send it for service. It is very likely not something you can fix yourself.


----------



## maricius

diamondears said:


> Does any of you exoerienced losing sound on one channel (right for me) on the micro iDSD? No right channel using the HP out and as pre-amp. But as direct DAC it mode no problem.
> 
> What's wrong with my unit? Is there a simple fix, or do i need to send it to iFi for servicing?


 
  
 Check if the iEMatch switch is loose


----------



## rafaelpernil

diamondears said:


> Does any of you exoerienced losing sound on one channel (right for me) on the micro iDSD? No right channel using the HP out and as pre-amp. But as direct DAC it mode no problem.
> 
> What's wrong with my unit? Is there a simple fix, or do i need to send it to iFi for servicing?


 
 I had a similar problem with left channel and it was due to a RCA cable problem. As soon as I unplugged RCA everything started to sound properly. Good luck, dude!
  
 Regards!


----------



## shadow04

Is it is okay if i leave the iDSD connected to my laptop all the time, that is to say I will be mainly using it as a "desktop" amp/dac. I don't really foresee myself using it as a portable amp/dac much(mainly because I am not a fan of brick-fi) but I figured it is a pretty nifty feature to have as a "backup plan" for my phone in case my DAP died or something. 
  
 I am sorry if this question has been asked multiple times before, I am currently on mobile so it is a little troublesome for me to do a search. Thanks in advance!


----------



## gixxerwimp

shadow04 said:


> Is it is okay if i leave the iDSD connected to my laptop all the time, that is to say I will be mainly using it as a "desktop" amp/dac. I don't really foresee myself using it as a portable amp/dac much(mainly because I am not a fan of brick-fi) but I figured it is a pretty nifty feature to have as a "backup plan" for my phone in case my DAP died or something.
> 
> I am sorry if this question has been asked multiple times before, I am currently on mobile so it is a little troublesome for me to do a search. Thanks in advance!


 

 Yup, it's been discussed, and yup, it's okay. In USB power mode, the 'smart power' feature will keep your battery topped up to an optimal 80% charge. Many others use it this way and have no problems, and have good use of the battery when they need it.


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> For me, it seemed to go into sleep mode (flashing green) after a few minutes (longer than without the OTG Lock app), but after about 30 minutes it went into full charging mode (blue).
> 
> If you turn the micro off while it's plugged into anything (phone or PC), I don't think there's any way to prevent it from charging.


 
  
 As a clarification, in "off" mode the iDSD micro will always draw as much power as it is allowed to, which can be up to 1.5A to charge the battery.
  
 In battery mode the iDSD micro "tests" the power source before charging in sleep mode. When it was developed most smartphones could only provide 100mA current to USB Devices attached. 
  
 So if the source voltage collapses when drawing more than 100mA the iDSD micro takes this as evidence that it is attached to a smartphone or similar device and will not charge.
  
 Since Smartphones and Tablets have appeared that provide 500mA or even more on their USB Ports. In this case the iDSD micro has no way of telling what it is attached to and may draw up to 500mA. 
  
 If the Device manufacturer of the Phone and/or Tablet has allowed the port to offer more than 500mA current and has set the appropriate detection, the iDSD micro will detect this as "downstream charging port" and will thus attempt to draw as much charging current as possible.
  
 If you have this combination, please load Firmware 4.10 which disabled "sleep mode" for this reason, however be aware that this causes the SPDIF input to become inoperable as long as a USB Source is connected.


----------



## DonD

ifi audio said:


> As a clarification, in "off" mode the iDSD micro will always draw as much power as it is allowed to, which can be up to 1.5A to charge the battery.
> 
> In battery mode the iDSD micro "tests" the power source before charging in sleep mode. When it was developed most smartphones could only provide 100mA current to USB Devices attached.
> 
> ...


 

 It is still unclear for me what changes the 4.10 did to the power management...
 When turned on while connected to a power source, it does never go in sleep mode:
 Does it still maintain the battery to 80% charge in all 3 modes (eco, normal, turbo)?
 Does it sense that nothing is playing? It this a special "state" (like sleep mode before)?
 Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

dond said:


> It is still unclear for me what changes the 4.10 did to the power management...
> When turned on while connected to a power source, it does never go in sleep mode:
> Does it still maintain the battery to 80% charge in all 3 modes (eco, normal, turbo)?
> Does it sense that nothing is playing? It this a special "state" (like sleep mode before)?
> Thanks


 
 >  When turned on while connected to a power source, it does never go in sleep mode:
  
 Does it still maintain the battery to 80% charge in all 3 modes (eco, normal, turbo)?
  
 - Yes, the 80% battery charge is applied whenever the unit is turned on while attached to a power source. It takes no account if music is playing of not.
 The key change on 4.10 for power management is to disable the "sleep mode" and "sleep mode charging", as this has been causing issues with modern smartphones/tablets.


----------



## bigfullz

i have a quick scenario i have been playing with, would appreciate any thoughts!
  
 using Onkyo HF player on iPhone 6plus out to micro iDSD with Noble K10U.  
  
 after reading back on page 274 about volume matching, i thought i would experiment with trying to get the volume pot between 12 and 3 o clock.
 for the k10s, its pretty damn loud on Eco and IEMatch to Ultra.... so i turned on the EQ (Flat preset) for Onkyo HF and then dragged the whole line down to rock bottom, which is -12db i think.  
  
 now i can really use this volume pot between 12-3.   even further, i switched power to Normal (from Eco) and i can still play in this ideal range of 12-3, and i believe Normal adds a little more dynamics!   am i crazy doing it this way?  
  
 i havent really been a big fan of EQ when I am sitting and listening to IEMs, especially with micro iDSD, but it does come in handy for car audio or when i am tuning my "beater" IEMS for out and about activites (working out, yard work, shoveling snow, etc...)
  
 definitely not trying to ignite a debate about EQ, just an experiment for now.  thanks for any feedback!


----------



## ClieOS

bigfullz said:


> i have a quick scenario i have been playing with, would appreciate any thoughts!
> 
> using Onkyo HF player on iPhone 6plus out to micro iDSD with Noble K10U.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Note that -12dB (*if it is accurate) in EQ means a loss of 2 bits in resolution. I'll suggest you turn on the upsampling option in HF Player, if you haven't done so.


----------



## bigfullz

clieos said:


> Note that -12dB (*if it is accurate) in EQ means a loss of 2 bits in resolution. I'll suggest you turn on the upsampling option in HF Player, if you haven't done so.




Yes, upsampling is on, and mostly hi res FLAC. And the maximum/minimum amplitude for the EQ is +/- 12db. I'll experiment further to discern if sacrificing 2 bits is worth hitting the sweet spot for the amp. 
Thanks!


----------



## gixxerwimp

gr8soundz said:


> It doesn't fully charge but the Micro does a good job of depleting my Note 3's battery. Wish there was a way to disable usb charging on the Micro (like my Fiio E17). Perhaps the next iFi firmware could allow for this via software, similar to changing the usb sample rate.


 
   





ifi audio said:


> As a clarification, in "off" mode the iDSD micro will always draw as much power as it is allowed to, which can be up to 1.5A to charge the battery.
> In battery mode the iDSD micro "tests" the power source before charging in sleep mode. When it was developed most smartphones could only provide 100mA current to USB Devices attached.
> 
> So if the source voltage collapses when drawing more than 100mA the iDSD micro takes this as evidence that it is attached to a smartphone or similar device and will not charge.
> ...


 
  
 I updated to FW v4.10 and now it does what I want it to when connected to my Note 3 (4.4.2) and without using the OTG Lock app. When connected in battery mode, the micro does not go into sleep (LED always on) and does not go into charging mode. The FW update also fixed the problem I was having with garbled transmission after pausing the music for more than a few seconds. I can now pause seemingly indefinitely and resume playback without any issues. Thanks, iFi!
  
*@gr8soundz* I don't think you're going to be able to get the micro NOT to charge when connected to your phone and turned off, regardless of the FW. If the micro is off, it's going to charge if it senses USB current. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## odib

Hi sorry if this has been discussed before, but how do you install the new firmware (4.10) for the IDSD?
  
 Edit: nevermind found the instructions here: http://ifi-audio.com/3-steps-micro-idsd-firmware-upgrade/


----------



## DonD

ifi audio said:


> >  When turned on while connected to a power source, it does never go in sleep mode:
> 
> Does it still maintain the battery to 80% charge in all 3 modes (eco, normal, turbo)?
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks a lot for this clarification, maybe a clear answer to this one could help to even better understand the 4.10 power management:
 when run on battery (turned on with no power source connected) and then connected to a power source, will it charge the battery continuously and (try to) maintain the 80% charge?


----------



## gr8soundz

gixxerwimp said:


> I updated to FW v4.10 and now it does what I want it to when connected to my Note 3 (4.4.2) and without using the OTG Lock app. When connected in battery mode, the micro does not go into sleep (LED always on) and does not go into charging mode. The FW update also fixed the problem I was having with garbled transmission after pausing the music for more than a few seconds. I can now pause seemingly indefinitely and resume playback without any issues. Thanks, iFi!
> 
> *@gr8soundz* I don't think you're going to be able to get the micro NOT to charge when connected to your phone and turned off, regardless of the FW. If the micro is off, it's going to charge if it senses USB current. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


 
  
 Glad to hear the new firmware worked for you.
  
 You're correct about the charging when off. Unless the next firmware gives an option to turn it off, (according to iFi) the Micro will charge via ANY usb connection if it detects a constant 100mAh or higher.
  
 So, leaving it on in battery mode seems best for now but I have no idea how long the battery will last like that.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Can I use this with a Sansa Clip mp3 player?

 I attached the usb cable to the Sansa & the Micro iDSD & the Sanas won't play music. It just pauses all songs, like it is in charge mode.
  
  
 Also will I need to download software to my PC to be able to use this?


----------



## ClieOS

thenewguy007 said:


> Can I use this with a Sansa Clip mp3 player?
> 
> I attached the usb cable to the Sansa & the Micro iDSD & the Sanas won't play music. It just pauses all songs, like it is in charge mode.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nothing you can do to Sansa Clip that will magically makes it has the USB DAC host ability.
  
 iDSD's PC driver is available at iFi website.


----------



## Thenewguy007

clieos said:


> Nothing you can do to Sansa Clip that will magically makes it has the USB DAC host ability.
> 
> iDSD's PC driver is available at iFi website.


 
  
 How about getting it to work with an android phone?
 Will it work?
  
 I plugged in the usb cable to my phone & then to the side of the iDSD.
 Music did not play through the headphones & instead through the phone.


----------



## technobear

thenewguy007 said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing you can do to Sansa Clip that will magically makes it has the USB DAC host ability.
> ...




The side port of the iDSD is for charging a phone and only works when the iDSD is off.

You need a phone that does USB OTG. Then you need an OTG cable which you plug into the back of the iDSD.


----------



## gixxerwimp

technobear said:


> thenewguy007 said:
> 
> 
> > clieos said:
> ...


 
  
 Really enjoyed @ClieOS's tasteful snark, and full appreciation for @technobear's patient and professional reply.
  
@Thenewguy007 you might want to take a look the micro iDSD manual, downloadable from here: http://ifi-audio.com/user-manual/
 While iFi's documentation leaves a lot to be desired, the information you're looking for is here in this thread and/or in the Android phones and USB DACs thread, (assuming you have an Android phone; iOS devices are guaranteed to work AFAIK).
  
 You may really be a "new guy", and therefore unaware of how finicky USB audio on Android phones can be. Since there's no standard for USB audio implementation on Android devices (one of the few advantages of the crApple ecosystem IMO), every manufacturer can decide if and how they want to support it. So to get an answer to your question, you need to specify which phone and which Android version you're running. The answer will vary:
  

"No", your phone doesn't have USB host capability
"Yes, but only with certain apps (e.g. UAPP and Hiby)"
"Yes, all audio from your phone will be directed to the DAC
  
 The Android/DACs thread has amazingly useful information for Android phones, most of it posted by @DanBa. Every now and then he posts a summary of useful links. By searching within the thread for "list of standard USB DAC" and posts by user "DanBa", one can find them:
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?advanced=1&byuser=DanBa&containingthread%5B0%5D=595071&newer=1&output=posts&resultSortingPreference=recency&sdate=0&search=+list+of+standard+USB+DAC+&type=all
  
 You can also search within that thread for info specific to your Android device. For example, when I wanted to know if my Note 3 is compatible with the micro iDSD, I searched in the Android/DACs thread for "note 3 micro idsd compatible" and found this post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/6405#post_11394072
  
 To get the most out of your micro iDSD connected to your Android device, check out this post.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/1230#post_10977665
  
 In summary, a little searching and homework on your part before throwing a question up will get you a lot closer to your goal. By showing that you've made an effort, others will be more willing to go the extra mile to help you out


----------



## ClieOS

thenewguy007 said:


> How about getting it to work with an android phone?
> Will it work?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Full explanation has been provided above, so I am just going to add that - getting an Android smartphone with native USB DAC support will save you a lot of headache. For me, that means Xperia Z3+ (and Z2 before that). But I heard Moto and LG will work as well.


----------



## drabbish

can anyone explain to me why when you use a ZX2 to imicro via nwh10 cable vs fiio LOD 5 ZX2 to the imicro the output is way louded with the otg vs 3.5mm input? I'm using LCD3F.  with the LOD5 i use turbo plus iem high with the nwh10 cable I use turbo plus iem ultra. Honestly, using nwh10 with iem match ultra on turbo mode I cant get past 10 oclock with the LCD3F.  I am just confused bc both ways I am using the imicro amp but the cables let me use the different dac's.


----------



## technobear

drabbish said:


> can anyone explain to me why when you use a ZX2 to imicro via nwh10 cable vs fiio LOD 5 ZX2 to the imicro the output is way louded with the otg vs 3.5mm input? I'm using LCD3F.  with the LOD5 i use turbo plus iem high with the nwh10 cable I use turbo plus iem ultra. Honestly, using nwh10 with iem match ultra on turbo mode I cant get past 10 oclock with the LCD3F.  I am just confused bc both ways I am using the imicro amp but the cables let me use the different dac's.




If you need to turn on IEMatch then you shouldn't be using Turbo mode.


----------



## gixxerwimp

technobear said:


> drabbish said:
> 
> 
> > can anyone explain to me why when you use a ZX2 to imicro via nwh10 cable vs fiio LOD 5 ZX2 to the imicro the output is way louded with the otg vs 3.5mm input? I'm using LCD3F.  with the LOD5 i use turbo plus iem high with the nwh10 cable I use turbo plus iem ultra. Honestly, using nwh10 with iem match ultra on turbo mode I cant get past 10 oclock with the LCD3F.  I am just confused bc both ways I am using the imicro amp but the cables let me use the different dac's.
> ...


 
  
 Aside from the Turbo mode issue, you're comparing apples vs. oranges. OTG input is to the micro's DAC and then its amp. The 3.5mm input is Line In and bypassing the micro's DAC. I'm not familiar with your sources, but IMO, there's no way to guarantee that you'll get the same line level to the micro's amp section from these 2 types of inputs. So it's not surprising that one is louder than the other. I would guess that your FiiO LOD output is at a much lower level than the output of the micro's own DAC to its amp section.
  
 LCD-3s are not _un-_sensitive phones if you understand what I mean. With my ZMF Blackwoods (same T50RP drivers as the Alpha Primes), I usually run Normal/High-Sensitivity or Eco/Off, and get to between 12-2 o'clock. No way you need Turbo (unless you prefer the sound that way).
  

   
LCD-3  
Alpha PrimeManufacturer:AudezeMrSpeakersImpedance:110 Ω50 ΩEfficiency:102.0 dB SPL/mW90.0 dB SPL/mW
  
 http://www.audiobot9000.com/compare/headphones/lcd-3,alpha-prime


----------



## syedhuz

Guys i just got my HD 650s 2 days back & I am really impressed. This is my first over ear headphones coming from IEMs klipsh S4, IE 8 & IE 80s & shure s215.
  
 My current set up is Samsung Note 4 USB digital input to IFI IDSD micro with source files ranging from DSD 5.6mhz files to 320 kbps mp3s heaphones HD 650s. 
  
 Currently, this setup sounds amazing to me. If somebody else has tried this setup (HD 650s with IFI IDSD micro) & other setups as well, would be really interested to know your comments
  
 Thanks


----------



## Koolpep

syedhuz said:


> Guys i just got my HD 650s 2 days back & I am really impressed. This is my first over ear headphones coming from IEMs klipsh S4, IE 8 & IE 80s & shure s215.
> 
> My current set up is Samsung Note 4 USB digital input to IFI IDSD micro with source files ranging from DSD 5.6mhz files to 320 kbps mp3s heaphones HD 650s.
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, I have this setup as well. And it really sounds amazing. Very, very close to the best combo I have heard so far which is: Bottlehead Crack with Speedball & HD650. But by all means: the iDSD micro pairs extremely well with the HD650 it's very enjoyable and I think I this would be a setup you can be happy with for many years to come.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Thenewguy007

I finally have the time to try this out on my desktop & I downloaded all the drivers & latest firmware.
*There is a loud static noise I hear when ever I turn the volume up, even when there is no sound.* With music playing, I can still hear the noise in the background.
  
 I'm using a USB extender to connect to my PC from the back of the iDSD.
  
 I'm also using RCA cables at the back with a RCA to 3.5mm converter jack to plug into my PC audio jack.
  
Is this the fault of the USB cables, RCA cables, 3.5mm converter? My PC?
I don't have an alternatives to use to see if they are at fault.
  
  
 EDIT:
 I took off the USB extender that was plugged int to the back of the iDSD & it got rid of the background noise, BUT without it, the music plays at a tiny level,  even with everything set at max.
  
 Is there a cable you guys can recommend that doesn't involve any extra noise?
  
 Like I have no optical cable for the iDSD, if I bought one, how would I connect it to my PC?


----------



## technobear

thenewguy007 said:


> I'm also using RCA cables at the back with a RCA to 3.5mm converter jack to plug into my PC audio jack.




Say what???

The RCAs on the back of the iDSD are outputs. Why would you connect those to your PC?




thenewguy007 said:


> I took off the USB extender that was plugged in to the back of the iDSD & it got rid of the background noise, BUT without it, the music plays at a tiny level, even with everything set at max.
> 
> Is there a cable you guys can recommend that doesn't involve any extra noise?




You can use USB up to 5 metres but only if you buy a good USB cable. I've had good results with a 5m Kimber USB.

The quiet sound is heard from where? From headphones? Turn off IEMatch.




thenewguy007 said:


> Like I have no optical cable for the iDSD, if I bought one, how would I connect it to my PC?




There's no reason to use optical if you don't have to. Your PC would need to feature an optical output.


----------



## Thenewguy007

technobear said:


> Say what???
> 
> The RCAs on the back of the iDSD are outputs. Why would you connect those to your PC?
> You can use USB up to 5 metres but only if you buy a good USB cable. I've had good results with a 5m Kimber USB.
> ...


 

 If I just connect the usb cable from the back of the iDSD to my PC, I get no sound.
 My PC only has 3.5mm audio jacks.
  
 Exactly, what is the correct way to plug these in to a PC?
 The instructions don't say.
  
 Also the iFi there is a icon in my tray, when I click on it, I get the options to change the 

USB Streaming Mode
Asio Buffering Size
  
 What values should I set them at?


----------



## drabbish

i have been playing around with the different cables, i.e. lod 5 vs nxh10, to see which dac I prefer. As for the turbo mode, I have been trying the different settings eco to turbo with iem on and off to find which has the best sound in the 12 to 2 o'clock range.  I just wonder why Audeze says on their web site they recommend 1-4watts to optimize the LCD3F.  on turbo mode with iem off its loud as hell. eco mode provides no micro  dynamics at all, normal with iem at high lets me get to 12o'clock and sounds good, turbo with high  is loud at 10 oclock but around 9 gives some great micro dynamics. its just at 9 oclock the right side amp output is terrible. as for the dac's the ifi imicro+amp is louder and more forward in presentation, the zx2/imcro via lod 5 is more laid back and smoother.  problem is the lod5 gives u great battery life while the nxh10 battery dies in a couple hours.


----------



## Thenewguy007

O.k. I figured out why it wasn't working, when connected to my PC via the USB cable.
 I did not set the "ifi HD + USB audio" as the default device under Control Panel > Sound.
*The instructions for the drivers & firmware did not state to set it as default.*
  
 That got rid of that nasty static noise & works normally now.
  
 So far so good, what are the recommended settings should I have my Micro iDSD?
 I'm using a Beyerdynamics T1 Tesla & I am listening to flac audio only.
  
  
 For that matter what should I set the:

USB Streaming Mode
Asio Buffering Size
 This is what I set mines, can I get a better sound if I change them?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Or for that matter on how I hook up my other amps to this?


 I have my setup like this:
 >Micro iDSD connected to PC via USB cable at the back of the unit.
 >Then I connected the red & white RCA cables to the back of the Mico iDSD & the other end to my amp.
 >Connect the headphone cable to my amp & have it powered on.
   
Do I set the Output as Direct or Preamplifier?

 I got the best sound from using Direct option. The volume knob on the Micro does nothing & only my amp knob controls the volume. The xbass & 3D crossfeed switch also do nothing on the Micro as well.
  
 Is that the correct configuration?
  
 I'm so confused on how to get it to work correctly.


----------



## KritiKal

thenewguy007 said:


> O.k. I figured out why it wasn't working, when connected to my PC via the USB cable.
> I did not set the "ifi HD + USB audio" as the default device under Control Panel > Sound.
> *The instructions for the drivers & firmware did not state to set it as default.*
> 
> ...




Some people will say that some sound better than others, but they all sound the same to me, provided the computer is capable of handling that setting.
What's the quality of most of your audio library? (E.g. MP3, CD, FLAC, DSD)
What you set it to depends on that and the speed of your computer.
You want to set them to the best settings that you can play with your audio files. Get your best quality file, whether that's a CD, FLAC file or MP3, play it, and move up the list for streaming mode. If it starts to stutter or skip, go for the setting below. Do the same for the sample rate, bit work down the list (so you end up with the highest sample rate your computer can handle). Do that and all will be good. If you start to upsample, or play DSD files, then you may need to reduce these settings.


----------



## KritiKal

thenewguy007 said:


> Or for that matter on how I hook up my amps to this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A) Set the switch below to direct, and yes, the volume knob not working is correct.
B) Which cable are you using? It could be a crappy cable, so if you're not using it already, use the one that came with the iDSD Micro.
C) It could just be that the iDSD micro has a better amp than the one you're connecting to. What sort of amp do you have?

There might be more that I'm overlooking at the moment, but those should help for now.


----------



## Thenewguy007

kritikal said:


> A) Set the switch below to direct, and yes, the volume knob not working is correct.
> B) Which cable are you using? It could be a crappy cable, so if you're not using it already, use the one that came with the iDSD Micro.
> C) It could just be that the iDSD micro has a better amp than the one you're connecting to. What sort of amp do you have?
> 
> There might be more that I'm overlooking at the moment, but those should help for now.


 

 I have two amps.
 The Asgard 2 & the Headroom Desktop Amp. Both very good by themselves.
  
 I didn't test the Asgard 2 yet, I'll do it tomorrow morning.
  
  
 BTW what is the difference between FLAC & DSD.
 I have a few albums worth of music in flac, but never seen any DSD files. I'm not even sure where to get them. Are they the next step up from flac? Will Foobar2000 play them fine?


----------



## ClieOS

thenewguy007 said:


> ...
> BTW what is the difference between FLAC & DSD.
> I have a few albums worth of music in flac, but never seen any DSD files. I'm not even sure where to get them. Are they the next step up from flac? Will Foobar2000 play them fine?


 
  
 The right question to ask is 'what is the difference between PCM and DSD'.
  
 FLAC by itself is a way to compress music, so are MP3, AAC, or APE. When these formats decompressed, they all turns into PCM format, which is the most basic format used on all computer - Windows, Apple, Linux, etc. On the other hand, DSD is mainly a format used on professional digital recording (alongside PCM and analog recording). But recent years, we see more and more (though still fairly limited number of) record being released in DSD format. You can think of PCM vs. DSD like Betamax vs. VHS or Bluray vs. HD-DVD, where both sides are claiming they are better than the other, but the verdict is still out. Anyway, if you want to learn about the history, read this.
  
 Follow this to setup FooBar to playback DSD natively on iDSD: http://ifi-audio.com.cn/wp-content/uploads/data/DoPInstructions_Foobar.pdf


----------



## technobear

thenewguy007 said:


> *The instructions for the drivers & firmware did not state to set it as default.*




Why should they? It is expected that you already know how to use your computer! :rolleyes:




thenewguy007 said:


> So far so good, what are the recommended settings should I have my Micro iDSD?




Direct/Preamp setting

This only affects the RCA outputs.

If you connect an integrated amp (i.e. one with its own volume control), select 'Direct'.

If you connect a power amp, select 'Preamp' and set the volume on the iDSD.

Note that XBASS and 3D only affect the RCA outputs in 'Preamp' mode.

Note also that if 3D is engaged, this is 3D for headphones from the headphone socket but 3D for speakers from the RCA sockets. 3D for speakers will sound wrong if you connect a headphone amp and headphones to the RCAs.

IEMatch setting

Used to lower the sound level for sensitive In Ear Monitors. The T1 is not an IEM. Set this to 'Off'.

Power Mode

For the T1, set to 'Eco'. This should be more than enough.




thenewguy007 said:


> For that matter what should I set the:
> 
> USB Streaming Mode
> Asio Buffering Size
> This is what I set mines, can I get a better sound if I change them?




If it works without crackles or interruptions then this is fine. You could try moving up the list but it will likely become less reliable. If crackles or dropouts occur, move down the list. I don't think it makes much difference to the sound.


----------



## Music Path

thenewguy007 said:


> O.k. I figured out why it wasn't working, when connected to my PC via the USB cable.
> I did not set the "ifi HD + USB audio" as the default device under Control Panel > Sound.
> *The instructions for the drivers & firmware did not state to set it as default.*
> 
> ...




Change it to Extra Safe, its the best and recomended by Ifi.
Have been tweaking around on this some time ago. And my conlusion was the same.
You just get better latency with your option.


----------



## KritiKal

thenewguy007 said:


> I have two amps.
> The Asgard 2 & the Headroom Desktop Amp. Both very good by themselves.
> 
> I didn't test the Asgard 2 yet, I'll do it tomorrow morning.
> ...


 
 Okay, quick question. Are you using the 3D switch when listening to your Micro on its own? I'm guessing that's why you are getting a reduction in perceived quality when using a standalone amp with it. As was mentioned, the 3D effect switch works differently when using it as a preamp, and not at all when used directly (bypassing the amp). Furthermore, the 3D switch does add perceived brightness to it, so when using another amp after coming from this, it's going to sound dark and the soundstage squashed.


----------



## quodjo105

I need your opinion on this. I currently have the ican micro hooked up to my schiit modi2 uber. My main headphones are the hd650's and ath-m50x . I was considering upgrading my dac . Will i be better of going for the idsd micro or just save some few $$ and get the idac2 micro...I'll still be using my ican micro as my main amp anyway..Thanks


----------



## semeniub

iDAC2 would make a lot sense to partner with your iCAN. I have both the micro iDSD, and recently added the micro iDAC2, and have used both in my headphone setup (switching between the iCAN and a NOS tube amp).
  
 In my setups, the iDAC2 can keep up sound-wise with the micro iDSD. Your choice will be decided if you need the portability and attenuation features that the micro iDSD provides.
  
 Keep in mind that it is very easy to connect portable sources to the micro iDSD since it has it's own battery. The iDAC2 needs clean USB power to do it's best, so needs to be connected to a computer, iUSBPower, USB hub, etc, etc. to get it's power.


----------



## obsidyen

Hi guys, I had been listening to HE400S on Eco mode. Now I turned on Normal mode with high sensitivity on. Even at the same volume, I can hear the sound just got better. Does iDSD Micro produce more power at Normal volume+High sensitivity compared to Eco mode on the same volume level?..


----------



## quodjo105

semeniub said:


> iDAC2 would make a lot sense to partner with your iCAN. I have both the micro iDSD, and recently added the micro iDAC2, and have used both in my headphone setup (switching between the iCAN and a NOS tube amp).
> 
> In my setups, the iDAC2 can keep up sound-wise with the micro iDSD. Your choice will be decided if you need the portability and attenuation features that the micro iDSD provides.
> 
> Keep in mind that it is very easy to connect portable sources to the micro iDSD since it has it's own battery. The iDAC2 needs clean USB power to do it's best, so needs to be connected to a computer, iUSBPower, USB hub, etc, etc. to get it's power.


 
 Thanks for your response. I'm happy with the sound of my ican micro . I've seen that the idac2 uses the same dac as the idsd micro, but it looks like the idsd is a better  choice going forward. its portability, connection interface etc . i'm however concerned about the lifespan of the  battery in the idsd.. are they replaceable?.and for how long will they last?.(years).


----------



## semeniub

quodjo105 said:


> Thanks for your response. I'm happy with the sound of my ican micro . I've seen that the idac2 uses the same dac as the idsd micro, but it looks like the idsd is a better  choice going forward. its portability, connection interface etc . i'm however concerned about the lifespan of the  battery in the idsd.. are they replaceable?.and for how long will they last?.(years).


 

 The micro iDSD has only been in the wild for about one year, so no one really knows what the battery life span is. Best to contact iFi with any questions.


----------



## Music Path

semeniub said:


> The micro iDSD has only been in the wild for about one year, so no one really knows what the battery life span is. Best to contact iFi with any questions.


 
 They sad it was 4 years, with good usage.


----------



## rsdtrn

To those who use iDSD Micro as desktop DAC with multiple input sources, FW 4.10 is rendered useless. IFi Audio have to provide two types of FW, one for desktop role and another for portable role (eg. smartphone as source). One can roll back to older FW such as 4.06 or 4.08 for desktop role with multiple sources but they're not officially stated by IFi Audio.
  
 I have the iDSD micro, iTube, and iPower while they sound great but stuck to older FW which I don't mind running on. However, for the sake of flexibility, continuity of the product it really sucks.


----------



## gixxerwimp

obsidyen said:


> Hi guys, I had been listening to HE400S on Eco mode. Now I turned on Normal mode with high sensitivity on. Even at the same volume, I can hear the sound just got better. Does iDSD Micro produce more power at Normal volume+High sensitivity compared to Eco mode on the same volume level?..


 
  
 I often switch between Eco/Off and Normal/High-Sens. Can't say I hear a whole of of difference, but sometimes it feels like Normal give a bit more punch and _dynamism_ (is that a word?).
  
 A few pages back, there was a discussion about Eco/Off vs. Turbo/Ultra-Sens. iFi gave some detailed replies about how the amp behaves in these 2 modes (though I didn't find them to be clear explanations). I then asked about the intermediate "Normal/High" mode, and the reply was "somewhere in between the other two". To answer your question, I think Normal has potentially higher max. power output, but whether or not you actually get higher power peaks with Normal vs. Eco probably depends on how loud you're listening and what phones you're running.
  
 I coincidentally listened to the HE-400S yesterday at a local audio show from my micro and I couldn't hear any difference between those 2 modes in the show environment. They had the 400i beside for comparison and the 400S sounded much more balanced and neutral to me. The highs on on the 400i seemed a bit harsher, and the mids had a big suck somewhere. I'd say from that very quick comparo in a noisy hotel room that the 400S is an improvement over the 400i in both sound and price.


----------



## Thenewguy007

So how much of a difference will there be with a higher quality usb cable to connect the iDSD to my PC?
 Like is there a difference between a $1 monoprice USB cable & a $100 one?
  
 Will there be a difference in sound?
 I'm wondering if I should upgrade.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Zero difference. USB cables doens't matter. I never seen a guy with blind A/B they can hear any difference between USB cables.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> Zero difference. USB cables doens't matter. I never seen a guy with blind A/B they can hear any difference between USB cables.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 That would be pretty much correct if they all adhered to the 90ohms impendance as specified by usb.org (their website lists the specifications for USB transmission).
  
 But very manufacturers care (are aware?) of this specification.
  
 To measure how well one cable adheres to 90ohms compared to another, one needs a Time Domain Reflectormeter - and if one has to ask...
  
 Hence, very few cables adhere to this or reviewers etc are able to measure if they adhere to this.
  
 This is a technical specification that effects the sound, think of RCAs and BNCs and 75ohms impedance for SPDIF connections. It is a similar situation.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## gixxerwimp

thenewguy007 said:


> So how much of a difference will there be with a higher quality usb cable to connect the iDSD to my PC?
> Like is there a difference between a $1 monoprice USB cable & a $100 one?
> 
> Will there be a difference in sound?
> I'm wondering if I should upgrade.


 
  
 I investigated this by ABing a well reviewed and tested cable and couldn't hear any difference compared to a $2 cable I'd just bought at the local electronics market. Suggest you get the main compononets of your chain sorted before you start worrying about wires. $100 more spent on a better headphone/DAC/amp is going to make *WAY *more difference to sound quality than swapping in a $100 USB cable. Buying $100 worth of music will also get you more enjoyment than a $100 cable. However, YVMV.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> That would be pretty much correct if they all adhered to the 90ohms impendance as specified by usb.org (their website lists the specifications for USB transmission).
> 
> ...


 

 Yes if you got not the worst USB cables, they don't match this secs, this is true. This is one of the reasons I got a custom made very short RCA SPDIF 75 ohms interconnect for my micro iDSD to feed them from my source an iBasso DX50.
  

  
 Cheers


----------



## JootecFromMars

Re: USB Cables.
  
 In my experience, if you're using a USB powered DAC, you'll get a lot of background noise generated by your computer that passes along the cable and is heard in your headphones. It would be much more beneficial to buy something like ifi's micro-iUSB or Schiit's Wyrd than a super expensive audiophile USB cable. This should give the inky black background. I also probably wouldn't use a cable that's more than 1m in length. Nor would I use any super cheap USB cable. But would probably stretch, for peace of mind and for build quality to something like a Schiit USB or Wireworld Chroma USB cable.
  
 Also recommend watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKP1NAqvvJ4
  
 [Edited to add link to youtube video.]


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> I investigated this by ABing a well reviewed and tested cable and couldn't hear any difference compared to a $2 cable I'd just bought at the local electronics market. Suggest you get the main compononets of your chain sorted before you start worrying about wires. $100 more spent on a better headphone/DAC/amp is going to make *WAY *more difference to sound quality than swapping in a $100 USB cable. Buying $100 worth of music will also get you more enjoyment than a $100 cable. However, YVMV.


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct. We would agree.
  
 Also, we didn't mention price has a bearing on adhering to 90 ohms, because it doesn't! The cable you mention is probably one made a reputable peripherals manufacturer and is done to a very decent standard - as guess what? It follows the usb.org specifications of course.
  
 Take for example, the Belkin Pro Gold at GBP15 is black-coated with gold-plated connectors. This beats a lotta expenisive after-market cables. It is the best 'off the shelf' cable we have tested that costs just a few cups of Starbucks.
  
 Or better still, as we are talking about the micro iDSD, just use the blue USB3.0 cable in the micro DSD box as USB3.0 is spec'd better than USB2.0 anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As we do crunch through the usb.org specifications - we know the good stuff from the not so good stuff.
  
For the person who pm'd us, we thought we would answer here: yes, there is ANOTHER way to test WITHOUT the impedance deviation without a TDR. Extend the USB length. These are the ones that deviate most from 90 ohms as dropouts occur when the length is extended.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## gixxerwimp

ifi audio said:


> Or better still, as we are talking about the micro iDSD, just use the blue USB3.0 cable in the micro DSD box as USB3.0 is spec'd better than USB2.0 anyway. :wink_face:
> 
> Cheers.




I should have clarified that I was ABing with the micro-idac2 because the USB cable that came with mine was DOA so I had to go out and buy another one. The outer rubber sheath on my blue USB 3.0 cable became detached from the strain relief at one end, and therefore probably isn't going to last that long. I can't comment on the electrical properties of that cable, but mechanically it's not that great.


----------



## Thenewguy007

jootecfrommars said:


> Re: USB Cables.
> 
> In my experience, if you're using a USB powered DAC, you'll get a lot of background noise generated by your computer that passes along the cable and is heard in your headphones. It would be much more beneficial to buy something like ifi's micro-iUSB or Schiit's Wyrd than a super expensive audiophile USB cable. This should give the inky black background. I also probably wouldn't use a cable that's more than 1m in length. Nor would I use any super cheap USB cable. But would probably stretch, for peace of mind and for build quality to something like a Schiit USB or Wireworld Chroma USB cable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I noticed iFi is selling a $260+ iFi Gemini Dual-Headed USB Cable.
 Nearly the cost of their micro iUSB.
  
  
 And doesn't the micro iDSD include inside of it a version of their iFi iPurifier to reduce USB noise?
 Why get the iUSB?


----------



## rhavyn

I need a portable amp to drive a pair of HE560s (I need the portability because I have two little kids so it's impossible to set up a desktop system and sit in one place to listen, I have to move to wherever it's quiet in the house). I'm looking very closely at the iFi iDSD Micro and the Centrance HiFi-M8. I've been searching through the threads here and found a few people using the HiFi-M8 with various different levels of happiness, but no one seemed totally thrilled with it, and a posts from people using the iDSD that seemed pretty happy. But I haven't really found any great comparisons between iDSD and HiFi-M8 here or searching on Google. Has anyone who used both compare the sound? Or maybe point me at a comparison I couldn't find? Any significant pros or cons I should be aware of?


----------



## JamesBr

h1f1add1cted said:


> Yes if you got not the worst USB cables, they don't match this secs, this is true. This is one of the reasons I got a custom made very short RCA SPDIF 75 ohms interconnect for my micro iDSD to feed them from my source an iBasso DX50.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 Wow, good stuff! I was thinking of doing to for my system but never thought of it for my portable player! Good Idea!


----------



## Koolpep

rhavyn said:


> I need a portable amp to drive a pair of HE560s (I need the portability because I have two little kids so it's impossible to set up a desktop system and sit in one place to listen, I have to move to wherever it's quiet in the house). I'm looking very closely at the iFi iDSD Micro and the Centrance HiFi-M8. I've been searching through the threads here and found a few people using the HiFi-M8 with various different levels of happiness, but no one seemed totally thrilled with it, and a posts from people using the iDSD that seemed pretty happy. But I haven't really found any great comparisons between iDSD and HiFi-M8 here or searching on Google. Has anyone who used both compare the sound? Or maybe point me at a comparison I couldn't find? Any significant pros or cons I should be aware of?




I only have the Gloveaudio A1 from entrance and used to have the Dacmini CX - I have yet to come across any product from Centrance that disappoints, they do sound very good and the M8 has the benefit of allowing you to use balanced cables.

However, I love my IDSD micro - such a versatile and powerful portable device, it's the best portable amp I have heard with the HE-560.

Hope that helps a little before others with a direct comparison can pitch in.

Cheers,
K


----------



## audiotweaker

gixxerwimp said:


> I should have clarified that I was ABing with the micro-idac2 because the USB cable that came with mine was DOA so I had to go out and buy another one. The outer rubber sheath on my blue USB 3.0 cable became detached from the strain relief at one end, and therefore probably isn't going to last that long. I can't comment on the electrical properties of that cable, but mechanically it's not that great.


 
  
 The very same thing happened to my blue cable after two days of use.


----------



## gixxerwimp

rhavyn said:


> I need a portable amp to drive a pair of HE560s (I need the portability because I have two little kids so it's impossible to set up a desktop system and sit in one place to listen, I have to move to wherever it's quiet in the house). I'm looking very closely at the iFi iDSD Micro and the Centrance HiFi-M8. I've been searching through the threads here and found a few people using the HiFi-M8 with various different levels of happiness, but no one seemed totally thrilled with it, and a posts from people using the iDSD that seemed pretty happy. But I haven't really found any great comparisons between iDSD and HiFi-M8 here or searching on Google. Has anyone who used both compare the sound? Or maybe point me at a comparison I couldn't find? Any significant pros or cons I should be aware of?


 
  
 I looked carefully at the HiFi-M8 and other DAC/amps before settling on the micro iDSD. I listened to the M8 with a few different "harder to drive" phones that they had at my local store (possibly including the HE-560, though it was a while ago and I can't remember for sure) and it performed quite well. If you want a balanced XLR/Kobiconn output and/or think the treble/bass shaping controls will be of use to you, then the M8 might be worth considering. Otherwise, with a price differential of $200, the iFi is much better value IMO. It also supports DSD to sampling rates out the wazoo (I'm still playing around with this format, trying to decide if there are any intrinsic differences).
  
 The analog filters in DSD mode on the iFi make significant changes in the sound, whereas the digital PCM filters are almost indiscernable to my ears. But the iFi has them, and the CEntrance doesn't. The XBass on the iFi only very subtly boosts extreme sub-bass (below 50Hz), and many find it makes no difference to what they hear, so the M8's bass boost might be more useful in this regard. I don't use the 3D Holographic feature as it doesn't sound realistic to me, but it's very mix-dependent and many in this thread have said they use it to varying degrees.
  
 I think both the M8 and the micro iDSD will sound very good with your HE-560s from a pure DAC/amp performance perspective. But the form factor is something you may want to consider in your decision. If you're going to stack it with your phone, compare the dimensions. The M8 has slightly protruding ridges along its edges, which may not give a good fit with your phone or whatever portable source you're going to use. This is how I stack my Note 3 on top of the micro iDSD with 3M SJ4570 low profile dual lock tape and phone cover (I guess I could have just as easily done the same with the M8):
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4005#post_11708695
  
 If you can't get to a retailer to hear them, you could order both from retailers with a trial/return policy, compare them, then return the one you don't want. My recommendation is the micro iDSD as it's better value, super flexible for all manner of usage situations and formats, possibly stacks better, and sounds great!


----------



## nopc0de

Hey guys,
  
 Is there any central "guide" to the iDSD?
  
 - I'm on the latest driver and firmware.
 - USB Streaming Mode is set to "Minimum Latency"
 - "Default Format" in windows "Speakers Properties" is set to max
  
 => The LED is now Yellow.
  
 I mainly play FLAC files with mpd.exe, using winmm (Windows multimedia API) as ALSA and ASIO don't work with MPD on windows.
  
 Should I do something else? Should I use a different player that has ALSA or ASIO?
 How do I play those DSD files? What is this "Digital Filter" setting?
  
  
 It would be cool if there was a flowchart that started with the type of file you want to play and pointed out the best possible configuration...
  
  
 I'm in over my head with this one D:


----------



## Thenewguy007

nopc0de said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Is there any central "guide" to the iDSD?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I like to know too. The iFi pdf manual on the net doesn't give any information on the settings other than the very basic description of them.


----------



## gixxerwimp

thenewguy007 said:


> nopc0de said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys,
> ...


 
  
 Totally understandable. Most on this thread have read through all 292 pages, plus the original *iDSD micro Crowd-Designed!* thread. I would recommend you look there for detailed explanations of design and features. The first post has links to all of iFi's posts scattered throughout the thread.
  
 As for a how-to tutorial on using your micro iDSD, it's a complicated thing, as the combinations and permutations are very numerous. Best thing is to Search This Thread with keywords pertaining to your setup. Do some homework before posting a question that's already been answered numerous times. You'll get better answers and have a better understanding of the device.
  
 Now, you're reading this wondering, "Why should I have to put so much work into figuring out how to use this thing I just paid a significant amount of $ for?" Well, our hobby is somewhat niche, and the usage models aren't well defined. Compatibility between devices is not anywhere near guaraanteed (except for _crApple approved_ products). Manufactureres are often small companies that don't have the resources to provide all the slick documentation we're used to getting with consumer products. But they try harder and are more willing to interact directly with their customers. So a bit (sometimes a lot) more effort is required by the user to figure out how to use the device. But in my experience, the effort is more than worth it for the results I've obtained.
  
 Do a bit more searching in this thread. Everything you want to know has more than likely already been discussed, but it's scattered amongst 4000+ posts. People will be more than willing to help you clarify something you're not sure about, or provide assistance on some detailed aspect you're unfamiliar with.


----------



## Thenewguy007

nopc0de said:


> What is this "Digital Filter" setting?


 
  
 As far as I could tell from reading hours of reviews & thread.
  
 http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/7/
 "The *Standard* filter – does as its name suggests and it “measures the best.”
 The *Minimum Phase* (MP) filter – greatly reduces the unwanted pre and post-ringing of the digital signal and produces a more natural sound. This is the “Super” digital filter for most high-end DACs.
 The *Bit-Perfect* filter – as Jose Mourinho coined, is the “Special One.” It originated in the CD-77 (where we called it Digital Master mode), then on the DP-777 (Bit-Perfect mode).  This is the mode that gives the most organic sound."
  
 So Bit-Perfect is perfect(?) and gives the best option. I have it set to that & haven't changed it.
 O.k., read up a little more.
 It affects the quality of the PCM.
  
 I also read up on how to play DSD & several guides start out by flat out saying to NOT DO IT as it is so complicated!


----------



## h1f1add1cted

If you can life with the typical treble roll-off on Bit-Perfect go for it (this is normal btw.), if not Minimum Phase is your friend for PCM. On DSD it is another story.


----------



## gixxerwimp

thenewguy007 said:


> nopc0de said:
> 
> 
> > What is this "Digital Filter" setting?
> ...


 
  
ClieOS's excellent review has a good explanation of the filters in PCM mode.
  
 Quote: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/13009 





> The Three PCM filters @ 16/44.1
> 
> Another user selectable option on the micro iDSD that will affect SQ is the filter selection. Filter is needed because the DAC’s sampling process will produce high frequency noise above the audible range. Even though it is mainly on the inaudible range, its effect will still reach under 20kHz and therefore we need filter to cut them off. With PCM decoding, the filter switch changes between three different digital filters setting: Standard, Minimum Phase and Bit Perfect. Standard filter is also known as ‘fast roll-off’ sometime, which has a shaper cut –off frequency, offer a flatter FR curve and nicer measurement. But it is often also regarded as being harsher and grainier sounding. Minimum Phase is what known as ‘slow roll-off’ by some, and usually offer a smoother sound but comes with a slight -3dB roll off between 14kHz to 20kHz. It is probably one of the most common filter found on higher end DAC because it is regarded as the best compromise between measurement and human perception. Bit Perfect on the other hand is actually not a filter at all. It is more commonly known as Non-OverSampling, or NOS for short. As the name implies, it is where the DAC doesn’t oversample the signal and doesn’t use any digital filter. The resulted FR curve has a rather big -3dB roll-off going from upper midrange all the way to 20kHz. NOS is in itself too complex a topic for us to cover here - but the basic idea is not to oversample the signal as would be done on normal DAC. Instead, the sampling is carried out where the focus is to restore the musicality back to the signal rather than to achieve the highest accuracy on frequency response. The result is often being described as a sound that is more analog and natural, though doesn’t measure nearly as good as the other two filters and can sound slightly hissy with sensitive headphone due to the lack of filter. To put it short, you can think of the three filters as going from what measured best to what perceived best. With DSD decoding, the same filter switch change to three analog filter selection: Standard, Extended, and Extreme. Due to its 1 bit nature, DSD can’t employ any digital filter (which we will discuss further in the next section on native decoding). Therefore it can only use analog filter after the decoding. The three settings are mainly to determine where to set the cut-off point along the frequency response. Last but not least, DXD only gets one setting and it is Bit Perfect / NOS, therefore it doesn’t matter which position the switch is in. So, you might start to wonder which filter sounds best? Well, the whole point of having a filter selection is so that you can find out the answer for yourself. It isn’t about right or wrong but about your own preference. However, for the purpose of the review, I have used the Standard filter for most of the measurement as well as majority of the subjective listening. Of course, this doesn’t actually mean I prefer the Standard filter more.


 
  
 On the official micro iDSD site, you can click on FAQ and get to this page which has some useful info:
  
 Quote: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?cid=20 





> *Frequently Asked Questions* All Categories » iDSD - (micro)
> 
> Filters on the iDSD Micro
> Here are the links to the filters:
> ...


 
  
 Personally, I find the filter settings have almost no effect playing PCM. With DSD, the 3 settings have an easily discernable effect on mainly the upper mids to highs.
  

 Regarding DSD playback, native DSD playback with JRiver Media Center is pretty much a no brainer. But it costs money.
  
 On the iFi "blog", there's a page that asks you to open a support ticket in order to get native DSD playback instructions with foobar2000.
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/foobar-2000-asio-for-native-dsd-playback-instructions-pdf/
  
 They want you to do the same for conversion from mp3-to-DSD using either JRMC or foobar2k.
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/nanomicro-idsd-tutorial-lossy-file-mp3-transfer-to-dsd256512/
 You can find the JRMC version easily if you search for "converting-MP3-to-DSD256-512-JRiver-MediaCenter.pdf"
  
 Not sure why they want you to do jump through the support ticket hoop. Maybe because it can be a bit tricky, and they just don't want to throw the instructions out into the wild. It's not that hard, though I had to take a few tries at it on one particularly PC, reinstalling the iFi driver and foobar2k each time. But if you follow the instructions to the letter and don't install any other SACD components, it works fine. I don't have upload privileges, but I do have all three iFi instructional PDFs.


----------



## Tambourine Guy

Hi everyone, not sure if this is the right place to as the question, but I am having trouble playing back DSD256 files on my J-River.  I have installed the ASIO for All thing... DSD128 plays fine, but DSD256 keeps buffing and breaking off... has anyone encountered this issue? Any advice or pointing to the right direction will be most valued.


----------



## technobear

tambourine guy said:


> Hi everyone, not sure if this is the right place to as the question, but I am having trouble playing back DSD256 files on my J-River.  I have installed the ASIO for All thing... DSD128 plays fine, but DSD256 keeps buffing and breaking off... has anyone encountered this issue? Any advice or pointing to the right direction will be most valued.




Did you mess with the iFi Audio USB Driver settings?

Did you perhaps set the USB mode to 'Minimum Latency' instead of the default 'Safe'?

This will likely be the cause.

If not, set the ASIO Buffer size to 8192 samples.

If that wasn't it, look for other buffer settings in J River and increase them.

Are you using a cheap and nasty USB cable? That won't help at the higher sample rates.

Is your PC very busy doing other stuff besides playing music?


----------



## Thenewguy007

gixxerwimp said:


> Regarding DSD playback, native DSD playback with JRiver Media Center is pretty much a no brainer. But it costs money.


 
  

 So is it safe to say that the paid version of JRiver Media Center is a one click solution. a.k.a. no extra downloading, configuring or such?

 Just open any .flac or .ape file that are encoded in DSD & it will play?


----------



## iFi audio

Flavours of Firmware 5.0 for DSD256 *Vanilla, Strawberry or Choc Chip?*
  
  

  
*The DSD DoP Revolution – iFi Firmware v5.0 ushers in a new era*
 At iFi, when we say we develop our software in-house, we _really _mean it_._ This time, with Firmware version 5.0 (and its sub-versions) we have gone above and beyond because:
  
 1) Firmware v5.0 ‘Vanilla’ optimises DSD via DoP to give it equal performance; freedom from clicks and sound quality on par with native DSD (which was up to now, only available on Windows). While the 30% data overhead of DoP is retained, special code optimisation in the iFi firmware brings it level with ASIO native. Sonically, both protocols are now equally good.
  
 2) Special sub-version firmware v5.0A ‘Strawberry’ that enables DSD256 via DoP (on nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 ONLY). Supports DSD256 on all major computer platforms including Smartphones and Streamers as well as computing platforms like Windows, OSX and Linux.
  
 3) Additional Sub-version firmware 5.0B ‘Choc Chip’ (for micro iDSD only) to disable sleep mode for Android and similar devices. Thus prevents the micro iDSD from drawing charge from recent generation Android Phones/Tablets/Phablets. Also prevents any click/pop generated by the micro iDSD’s entering sleep mode.
  
 For detailed instructions and the download files, please follow this link:
http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
  
 Happy Easter! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
  
*1**Background. The DSD DoP Evolution*
DoP DSD is known for inherently creating noise when switching between PCM and DSD-DoP tracks and back. This problem has been addressed at the source by _some_ but not all playback software - hence, much available software when playing DSD, struggles. So we at iFi have taken it upon ourselves to think ‘outside of the (PC) box’ to resolve this _upstream_ issue at the _downstream_ firmware level for all our DSD capable devices. In a process that took over a year, we have resolved the many areas where the differences between DSD-DoP and PCM make switching an annoyance.
  
Additionally, DoP is often cited as offering a lower sound quality. By adjusting core code and the clocking system in the firmware, this point is now moot – as we eliminated the hit on processor utilisation by DoP vs. native DSD playback. So choose native DSD or DoP-DSD with the confidence that either will deliver the same great DSD sound quality and user experience. Just like DSD and PCM, we like one as much as the other.


----------



## gr8soundz

Thank you iFi!


----------



## chawya22

For Mac users: If you flash using the .dmg and would like to confirm the version after. Go to 'About This Mac' under the Apple menu icon > click System Report > Click USB. In the list you should see: *iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio: *and *Version*: 5.00.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

@iFi-Audio
  
 So if I use only the coaxial input of the micro iDSD with my DAP, I can keep FW 4.10 if I only use 16/44 FLAC playback right? I never have had a problem with sleep mode or need DoP.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> @iFi-Audio
> 
> So if I use only the coaxial input of the micro iDSD with my DAP, I can keep FW 4.10 if I only use 16/44 FLAC playback right? I never have had a problem with sleep mode or need DoP.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 3) Additional Sub-version firmware 5.0B ‘Choc Chip’ (for micro iDSD only) to disable sleep mode for Android and similar devices. Thus prevents the micro iDSD from drawing charge from recent generation Android Phones/Tablets/Phablets. Also prevents any click/pop generated by the micro iDSD’s entering sleep mode.
  
 Does your DAP/Android (because many are old droids) do this?
  
 You need to check with your manufacturer or check the LED status of the micro DSD. It shouldn't charge from your DAP/Droid. But IF it does, likethe other customer's Galaxy Note, then this is what you need.
  
 The pdf table - it neatly summarises everything. Check it out!
  
 Cheers


----------



## h1f1add1cted

No the LED is always green, never blue like charging  I don't use currently the USB input (but my Samsung S4 never had a issue with this in the past). I use only coaxial input from my DAP, my question is only if I'm 4.10 firmware, I don't need to swap to 5.0 because no befit in my setup right?


----------



## rsdtrn

Thank you iFi Audio ! Great support ! Time to play ...wohooo.
  
 edit: Upgraded to v5.0 (for my use ). Nothin bad happened ..lol. So far so good.


----------



## Tambourine Guy

Thank you for this advice. I will try these adjustments.  So, if I pay for JRiver, then I won't need to stuff around as much to get DSD256 player?  I so have known....  I was told that I needed to install Footbar first, then install the ASIO plug-in into Footbar.  Then J-River will magically play DSD256... : (  oh well. thanks guys.


----------



## iFi audio

h1f1add1cted said:


> No the LED is always green, never blue like charging  I don't use currently the USB input (but my Samsung S4 never had a issue with this in the past). I use only coaxial input from my DAP, my question is only if I'm 4.10 firmware, I don't need to swap to 5.0 because no befit in my setup right?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 From your description, totally your call.
  
 Version 4.10 or version 5.0 'Vanilla.'
  
 Stay with 4.10 or no harm in trying both!
  
 Enjoy the fun of computer audio!


----------



## iFi audio

tambourine guy said:


> Thank you for this advice. I will try these adjustments.  So, if I pay for JRiver, then I won't need to stuff around as much to get DSD256 player?  I so have known....  I was told that I needed to install Footbar first, then install the ASIO plug-in into Footbar.  Then J-River will magically play DSD256... : (  oh well. thanks guys.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 JRMC is payware- you should have an easier life.
  
 Foobar is freeware - you wont have as easy a life!


----------



## Brooko

Foobar is not that hard to set-up though, and once you get used to it, painless


----------



## obsidyen

Foobar is much easier to use than that bloatware Jriver. It's simple and does its job.


----------



## gixxerwimp

thenewguy007 said:


> So is it safe to say that the paid version of JRiver Media Center is a one click solution. a.k.a. no extra downloading, configuring or such?
> 
> 
> Just open any .flac or .ape file that are encoded in DSD & it will play?




It's been a while I played with the trial version of JRMC. IIRC it will play anything out of the box, but may require some setup to stop it from converting DSD to PCM before sending it to your DAC. This should be easy to find out with a simple Google search.


----------



## gr8soundz

gixxerwimp said:


> It's been a while I played with the trial version of JRMC. IIRC it will play anything out of the box, but may require some setup to stop it from converting DSD to PCM before sending it to your DAC. This should be easy to find out with a simple Google search.


 
  
 You could also try the free Pono Music World. Its pretty much Jriver without the video stuff. Appears to have (not confirmed myself yet) the same plugin options.


----------



## gixxerwimp

thenewguy007 said:


> So is it safe to say that the paid version of JRiver Media Center is a one click solution. a.k.a. no extra downloading, configuring or such?
> 
> 
> Just open any .flac or .ape file that are encoded in DSD & it will play?


 
  
 Quote:



gr8soundz said:


> You could also try the free Pono Music World. Its pretty much Jriver without the video stuff. Appears to have (not confirmed myself yet) the same plugin options.


 
  
 Yes, JRMC comes with a lot of baggage, and when installing you have to turn a lot of stuff off in order to prevent it from taking over all media on your machine. But it did work well out of the box.


----------



## Sound Eq

i have a question, i am connecting my ifi dsd micro to my laptop using the blue usb cable that came with my ifi, and this is barely the second time i did use it with my laptop, whenever i move my ifi a slight movement i see that it disconnect from my laptop, so when i just wiggle a bit the blue cable where it connect to the ifi usb this disconnect happens
  
 i clearly feel the usb blue cable side where it conencts to the ifi usb side wiggles  its the cable side connector part the goes into the ifi that is bit loose, the ifi usb part inside the ifi is ok though
  
 does anyone elese have this problem???
  
 this is really concerning me and now what shall i do as like this its not usable, very disappointed now, especially this ifi uses a special usb cable
  
 i do not know if that was how it come when i got the ifi, or could be due to my firmware upgrade to firmware 5
  
 how can the usb blue cable side that enters the ifi be defected also, i am not knowing what is the problem here?


----------



## Sound Eq

can you please re-surmarize what settings to chose in jriver


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> i have a question, i am connecting my ifi dsd micro to my laptop using the blue usb cable that came with my ifi, and this is barely the second time i did use it with my laptop, whenever i move my ifi a slight movement i see that it disconnect from my laptop, so when i just wiggle a bit the blue cable where it connect to the ifi usb this disconnect happens
> 
> i clearly feel the usb blue cable side where it conencts to the ifi usb side wiggles  its the cable side connector part the goes into the ifi that is bit loose, the ifi usb part inside the ifi is ok though
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 1. Try a different USB cable.  Narrow down to USB cable or the port.
  
 2. Then contact your retailer and they will sort you out with a new USB3.0 cable or swap out the pcb for you.
  
 3. As always, you can also open a support ticket and the team will look after you. They will copy in your retailer etc.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 It may just be the case that a new USB3.0 cable is sent to you. These cables are made in the tens of thousands. So we always see a few rogue ones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers.


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 1. Try a different USB cable.  Narrow down to USB cable or the port.
> 
> ...


 
 thanks 
  
 but i bought my ifi from uk ( analogue seduction ) online, and I live in israel, so how am i supposed to deal with that now.
  
 this is so bad to me, as even if i just touch my ifi is disconnects from my laptop, i do not have another blue usb cable to try what you suggested


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> thanks
> 
> but i bought my ifi from uk ( analogue seduction ) online, and I live in israel, so how am i supposed to deal with that now.
> 
> this is so bad to me, as even if i just touch my ifi is disconnects from my laptop


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We can send a USB cable to you from the UK > Israel.
  
 For obvious reasons, please do not post your details here.
  
 Open an STS and they team will take care of the rest.
  
ttp://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We can send a USB cable to you from the UK > Israel.
> 
> ...



 


the stickers that the serial number got removed so how can i now know what my serial number is, i still have the box though

please help in answering to submit this ticket


----------



## Music Path

sound eq said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...




Serial is on the box too.


----------



## nopc0de

I just tried the XBass switch in the combination with the 3D switch while playing GTA V.
  
 I'm not sure if those options are made for playing games but I think it sounded really good.


----------



## Sound Eq

music path said:


> Serial is on the box too.



 


well i opened a ticket and lets see how long it will take to get a response


----------



## technobear

Yes, some of those blue USB cables are a pain. I ended up wrapping tape around mine so that it fits more securely into the back of the iDSD.


----------



## Sound Eq

technobear said:


> Yes, some of those blue USB cables are a pain. I ended up wrapping tape around mine so that it fits more securely into the back of the iDSD.


 
 yeah especially if you order from an online store outside your country, then you almost will lose 2 months just to get a cable replacement, between opening a ticket and it getting shipped.
  
 i sent my ticket yesterday and so far no one replied to me, so lets see how things will go, before i go berzerk online, and i guess some people know me already how critical i can get online


----------



## Thenewguy007

I just installed the old firmware a week ago, would I have to uninstall that older firmware before upgrading to the new one?
 Or will the newer firmware automatically overwrite it?


----------



## gixxerwimp

sound eq said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, some of those blue USB cables are a pain. I ended up wrapping tape around mine so that it fits more securely into the back of the iDSD.
> ...


 
  
 While you're waiting for your replacement iFi USB 3.0 Type A male-to-female cable, save yourself a lot of aggravation and just buy a short USB 2.0 Type A male-to-female cable. It's not special, just a USB Type A extension cable. If you can't source one locally, just go online and buy the cheapest one you can (or 2-3 just in case that one is a dud too). I'm also waiting for a replacment iFi blue cable. I know how aggravating it can be not to be able to use your new toy because a $2 accessory that came with it is defective. The USB 2.0 Type A-to-B male-male cable I got with my iDAC2 was a dud, and I had to go out an buy another one in order to use. I have already given iFi feedback about QA with regard to they're cables, and they're attitude seems to be "we'll replace it if it's faulty, but not much we can do about it cuz they're cheap cables". I'm a magnet for products with problems, but I've never run into a faulty cable with all the stuff I've bought. Both iFi micros I've purchased have had defective USB cables ... just saying.
  
 Anyway, go get something like this, then keep the iFi cable as a spare or for charging when you get it.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Type-Male-to-Female-USB-2-0-Clear-Blue-Extension-Cable-50cm-/311323809195


----------



## john57

thenewguy007 said:


> I just installed the old firmware a week ago, would I have to uninstall that older firmware before upgrading to the new one?
> Or will the newer firmware automatically overwrite it?


 
 Most firmware updates overwrite the old. It is treated as a complete new version not updating some old code parts.


----------



## Sound Eq

gixxerwimp said:


> While you're waiting for your replacement iFi USB 3.0 Type A male-to-female cable, save yourself a lot of aggravation and just buy a short USB 2.0 Type A male-to-female cable. It's not special, just a USB Type A extension cable. If you can't source one locally, just go online and buy the cheapest one you can (or 2-3 just in case that one is a dud too). I'm also waiting for a replacment iFi blue cable. I know how aggravating it can be not to be able to use your new toy because a $2 accessory that came with it is defective. The USB 2.0 Type A-to-B male-male cable I got with my iDAC2 was a dud, and I had to go out an buy another one in order to use. I have already given iFi feedback about QA with regard to they're cables, and they're attitude seems to be "we'll replace it if it's faulty, but not much we can do about it cuz they're cheap cables". I'm a magnet for products with problems, but I've never run into a faulty cable with all the stuff I've bought. Both iFi micros I've purchased have had defective USB cables ... just saying.
> 
> Anyway, go get something like this, then keep the iFi cable as a spare or for charging when you get it.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Type-Male-to-Female-USB-2-0-Clear-Blue-Extension-Cable-50cm-/311323809195



 


thanks for letting me know, then i will buy one of those until a replacement cable arrives, but i hope they will send me one


----------



## Sound Eq

can someone please recommend me how to set up ifi micro dsd with jriver, what settings shall i choose in jriver please


----------



## iFi audio

john57 said:


> Most firmware updates overwrite the old. It is treated as a complete new version not updating some old code parts.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct!


----------



## iFi audio

1,155 Posts. Joined 3/2013
 *iFi will rock your Mac world* *Double-click for DSD256 DoP on OS X*
  

  
  
*The DSD DoP Revolution – and updater now on OS X*
  
 A few days ago, we launched the special Firmware version 5.0 (and the sub-versions). We incorporated an ‘Easter Egg;’ we have coded three separate iFi dmg files for updating the 3 ‘flavours’ of firmware on OS X.
  
 1) Firmware v5.0 optimises DSD via DoP was launched a few days ago to give it equal performance; freedom from clicks and sound quality on par with native DSD (which was up to now, only available on Windows). While the 30% data overhead of DoP is retained, special code optimisation in the iFi firmware brings it level with ASIO native. Sonically, both protocols are now equally good.
  
 2) Special sub-version firmware v5.0A that enables DSD256 via DoP (on iDSD nano and iDAC2 micro). Supports DSD256 on all major computer platforms including Smartphones and Streamers as well as computing platforms like Windows, OSX and Linux. Further, there is lso sub-version 5.0B is for micro iDSD only to disable sleep mode for Android and similar devices[1].
  
 3) iFi Firmware update on for MAC which introduces the much requested option to update the specific firmware not only via Windows PC but also using Mac OSX. Making iFi one of only a handful of companies to develop a proprietary Mac OS X firmware update application.
    [1] Thus prevents the iDSD micro from drawing charge from recent generation Android Phones/Tablets/Phablets. Also prevents any click/pop generated by the iDSD micro entering sleep mode.
  


  
  
 Not everyone spotted the Easter Egg which was the dmg files.
  

  
 So if you are a MAC OS X user (you need 10.10.0 or later - so quite a recent version of OS X).
  
MACFirmwareupdatetov5.0.pdf 119k .pdf file 
  
  
*Note:*
 The Firmware is 'built-into' the dmg file. So, one must select the correct 'flavour' of firmware dmg file to upgrade.
  
 Unlike Windows where one does a 'browse.'
  
 If youare a MAC person, no need to source a Windows PC.
  
 We hope you like it as it was a little bit of work (heck, otherwise there would be loads of dmg files out there.)


----------



## iFi audio

*iFi will rock your Mac world* *Double-click for DSD256 DoP on OS X*
  

  
  
*The DSD DoP Revolution – and updater now on OS X*
  
 A few days ago, we launched the special Firmware version 5.0 (and the sub-versions). We incorporated an ‘Easter Egg;’ we have coded three separate iFi dmg files for updating the 3 ‘flavours’ of firmware on OS X.
  
 1) Firmware v5.0 optimises DSD via DoP was launched a few days ago to give it equal performance; freedom from clicks and sound quality on par with native DSD (which was up to now, only available on Windows). While the 30% data overhead of DoP is retained, special code optimisation in the iFi firmware brings it level with ASIO native. Sonically, both protocols are now equally good.
  
 2) Special sub-version firmware v5.0A that enables DSD256 via DoP (on iDSD nano and iDAC2 micro). Supports DSD256 on all major computer platforms including Smartphones and Streamers as well as computing platforms like Windows, OSX and Linux. Further, there is lso sub-version 5.0B is for micro iDSD only to disable sleep mode for Android and similar devices[1].
  
 3) iFi Firmware update on for MAC which introduces the much requested option to update the specific firmware not only via Windows PC but also using Mac OSX. Making iFi one of only a handful of companies to develop a proprietary Mac OS X firmware update application.
    [1] Thus prevents the iDSD micro from drawing charge from recent generation Android Phones/Tablets/Phablets. Also prevents any click/pop generated by the iDSD micro entering sleep mode.
  


  
  
 Not everyone spotted the Easter Egg which was the dmg files.
  

  
 So if you are a MAC OS X user (_Minimum requirement is: 10.9 or Mavericks._or later - so quite a recent version of OS X).
  
MACFirmwareupdatetov5.0.pdf 119k .pdf file 
  
  
*Note:*
 The Firmware is 'built-into' the dmg file. So, one must select the correct 'flavour' of firmware dmg file to upgrade.
  
 Unlike Windows where one does a 'browse.'
  
 If youare a MAC person, no need to source a Windows PC.
  
 We hope you like it as it was a little bit of work (heck, otherwise there would be loads of dmg files out there.)


----------



## rickyleelee

You should complain to the dealer that your unit did not have a visible serial number. I would. Also, as the OP said,there is a serial number on the outer sleeve.


----------



## Sound Eq

rickyleelee said:


> You should complain to the dealer that your unit did not have a visible serial number. I would. Also, as the OP said,there is a serial number on the outer sleeve.


 
 i removed the srial number sticker by mistake but found the serial on the sleeve


----------



## jaica

I was able to update my micro IDSD with absolutely no problem!   Appreciate the instructions to verify the current firmware version of the IDSD on my MAC.
  
 What more can I say it worked.  As to the benefits I will see as I use it.
  
 Thanks
  
 PS I used the vanilla version 5.0


----------



## Ovrki1

This probably isn't the best thread to find out an answer to my question but I'm hoping for someone to help out. I have a ifi Micro and HE 400i. To be short, how can I start hearing streamed videos on my PC/phone?


----------



## technobear

ovrki1 said:


> This probably isn't the best thread to find out an answer to my question but I'm hoping for someone to help out. I have a ifi Micro and HE 400i. To be short, how can I start hearing streamed videos on my PC/phone?




To be short:

Windows

Install the iFi USB Audio Driver found here:

http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/driver/iFi%20(by%20AMR)%20HD%20USB%20Audio%20Driver%20-%20for%20installation%20-%202.23.exe

Open the Windows 'Sound' Control Panel.

Select the iFi USB Audio device and click 'Set Default'.

Phone

Depends on the phone. The phone must support USB OTG (On-The-Go) and you will need a USB OTG cable.

For Android start here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs

For Apple I have no idea.


----------



## Turrican2

technobear said:


> To be short:
> 
> 
> Phone
> ...




For iPhone, just install a recent xmos firmware (5 is a good choice) and buy one of these

http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=507b9a4c48c437bc7eb5a4aafb15e62c87df8a0f665a3b6cb23b38c4def299fd774890f3fede83f3c6d6c5a0deddd03e8868ae8a39ffca091b487ca2098a4d6d33fa91987071315516e75ebde754d1dc2c6af69970ef32da3931214e307d3298ee539b2a3b7a87599dc33587f444d15b

Job done! Any audio or video playback software will output to the idsd.


----------



## arhantd

Hi
  
 I am still hanging around to finalize a USB dac for my PC based stereo setup.
 My budget is around $500 and the clear options i have shortlisted are:
  
 1. Ifi Micro iDSD
 2. SMSL M8 with the P1 power supply
 3. Used Concero HD - but havent found a deal yet.
  
 It is going to be a blind buy for me so i just want to know what people here suggest.
 My system sounds fairly neutral right now, i would want to impart some energy to it.
  
 Any suggestions or insights are welcome!
  
 Thanks


----------



## Ovrki1

technobear said:


> To be short:
> 
> Windows
> 
> ...


I had the driver downloaded for my computer so videos actually do play. I'm not sure why I thought they didn't. As far as my phone, it will not play any videos. I have a Galaxy Note II and a FAW OTG cable. I wonder if Chrome mobile is the problem.


----------



## technobear

ovrki1 said:


> As far as my phone, it will not play any videos. I have a Galaxy Note II and a FAW OTG cable. I wonder if Chrome mobile is the problem.




For Android start here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs

Search the thread for "Galaxy Note".


----------



## Amoy Utot

ifi audio said:


> *iFi will rock your Mac world* *Double-click for DSD256 DoP on OS X*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,

 I've updated my iDSD to firmware 5.0b on an mac. Preventing the iDSD from drawing power from my note 2 does not work  

 I have also noticed that the "clicks" are louder when turning ON/OFF the iDSD, louder clicks compared to 4.10 firmware.


----------



## technobear

amoy utot said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've updated my iDSD to firmware 5.0b on an mac. Preventing the iDSD from drawing power from my note 2 does not work
> 
> I have also noticed that the "clicks" are louder when turning ON/OFF the iDSD, louder clicks compared to 4.10 firmware.




If you switch on the iDSD after connecting to the phone then the iDSD will be in USB power mode and will draw power.

Switch the iDSD on before you connect it to the phone.

Firmware 5.0B disables sleep mode. Normally, when no music has played for a few minutes, the iDSD will go into sleep mode. It will then draw power to charge its battery if such power is available. Some Android phones now announce that such power is available. 5.0B stops this behaviour.


----------



## Thenewguy007

O.k. I bough the iFi USB iPower brick & that has fixed the harshness of my Beyer T1's! It didn't clean up the sound as much as completely fixing it!
  
 I am now serious considering the iFi Gemini dual headed USB cable, but my God, $200+ for just a short USB cable.
  

I bought the Micro iDSD around $600 ($499 MSRP my ass).
Another $200 for the iPower.
Add another $200 if I buy the Gemini USB cables.
Plus I still haven't got the Micro iCAN amp that pairs with this ($300+).
  
 I am looking at $1,000+ for the entire stack. For that money, I could have bought the *Wooaudio WA2*, which everyone say's is an end game amp & the best for the money.
  
 The iPower did more to help the sound than the apparently "amazing" DAC inside the Micro iDSD did so far. I didn't notice ANY benefits of the DAC before the iPower.
  
  
  
*TLDR;*
 Should I buy the dual headed Gemini USB cables for the USB iPower? How big of a jump in quality will they give me?
 The iPower was definitely worth the money, I feel the Micro iDSD was worthless without it.


----------



## gixxerwimp

thenewguy007 said:


> O.k. I bough the iFi USB iPower brick & that has fixed the harshness of my Beyer T1's! It didn't clean




Just out of curiosity, what were you using to listen to your T1s before? And have you heard your T1s through any other "high end" systems? Did they sound harsh through them?


----------



## DougD

thenewguy007 said:


> I am looking at $1,000+ for the entire stack. For that money, I could have bought the *Wooaudio WA2*, which everyone say's is an end game amp & the best for the money.


 
  
 Had you chosen to instead spend $1190 to buy the Woo Audio WA2 with its stock tubes, your Woo stack would still be lacking a DAC and any cures for whatever ailments were getting to the DAC via its USB-connection to whatever your source is. So that's pretty much an oranges-vs-pineapples comparison.
  
 How did your T1s sound, driven by the Micro iDSD using its internal battery, rather than getting power from the USB connection ?


----------



## Thenewguy007

dougd said:


> Had you chosen to instead spend $1190 to buy the Woo Audio WA2 with its stock tubes, your Woo stack would still be lacking a DAC and any cures for whatever ailments were getting to the DAC via its USB-connection to whatever your source is. So that's pretty much an oranges-vs-pineapples comparison.
> 
> How did your T1s sound, driven by the Micro iDSD using its internal battery, rather than getting power from the USB connection ?


 

 Little to no difference when turning the power on before plugging them or turning it on after plugging it in.
  
 Long story short, the DAC by itself made _maybe _a 5-10% improvement when pairing it with the two other amps I had (the improvement is very hard to tell).
  
 I been using my PC directly to do all my testing, the other amps I used was the Headroom amp, which is very similar to the ifi iDSD in sound signature.
 I also used the Asgard 2 amp, which I found much warmer than the other two.


----------



## technobear

thenewguy007 said:


> O.k. I bough the iFi USB iPower brick & that has fixed the harshness of my Beyer T1's! It didn't clean up the sound as much as completely fixing it!
> 
> I am now serious considering the iFi Gemini dual headed USB cable, but my God, $200+ for just a short USB cable.




You must be using an incredibly noisy source for the iUSBPower to have made that much difference to the micro iDSD.


----------



## Amoy Utot

technobear said:


> If you switch on the iDSD after connecting to the phone then the iDSD will be in USB power mode and will draw power.
> 
> Switch the iDSD on before you connect it to the phone.
> 
> Firmware 5.0B disables sleep mode. Normally, when no music has played for a few minutes, the iDSD will go into sleep mode. It will then draw power to charge its battery if such power is available. Some Android phones now announce that such power is available. 5.0B stops this behaviour.


 

 Hi, Thank you for your reply. I always switch ON the iDSD before connecting the phone.
 I thought firmware 5.0b totally stops the iDSD from drawing power from the phone whether the iDSD is ON or OFF,.. basically, what firmware 5.0b does is keeping the iDSD "ON" all the time even when there is no music detected from the source? Am i right? And if I switch OFF the iDSD thru the potentiometer ON/OFF switch, the iDSD will still draw power from the phone?


----------



## gr8soundz

With firmware 5.0b the Micro (when turned on) does not sleep to prevent the recharge from kicking in. You should have either a steady light or a blinking green one.
  
 I updated mine last night and the Micro will still charge when off if it detects more than 100mAh from ANY usb cable (doesn't matter if its from a phone, pc, wall charger, etc).
  
 I'm guessing, when it comes to power at least, that the Micro can't really tell whether its connected to a phone or pc. If the Micro stopped detecting current when off it would never charge the battery again.


----------



## iFi audio

amoy utot said:


> Hi, Thank you for your reply. I always switch ON the iDSD before connecting the phone.
> I thought firmware 5.0b totally stops the iDSD from drawing power from the phone whether the iDSD is ON or OFF,.. basically, what firmware 5.0b does is keeping the iDSD "ON" all the time even when there is no music detected from the source? Am i right? And if I switch OFF the iDSD thru the potentiometer ON/OFF switch, the iDSD will still draw power from the phone?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 I thought firmware 5.0b totally stops the iDSD from drawing power from the phone whether the iDSD is ON or OFF.
 - nope. Only when ON ie: when in use. When OFF, it has to be in charge mode.
  
 ,.. basically, what firmware 5.0b does is keeping the iDSD "ON" all the time even when there is no music detected from the source? Am i right? And if I switch OFF the iDSD thru the potentiometer ON/OFF switch, the iDSD will still draw power from the phone?
 - yes, correct, 'Dis-able Sleep mode.'
  
 Cheers


----------



## Amoy Utot

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> I thought firmware 5.0b totally stops the iDSD from drawing power from the phone whether the iDSD is ON or OFF.
> - nope. Only when ON ie: when in use. When OFF, it has to be in charge mode.
> ...


 

 Thank you for your reply, everything is clear now. I've already replaced the iDSD firmware,.. from 5.0b to 5.0
 Disabling the sleep mode does not suit my needs since I always turn OFF the iDSD when not in use. I guess I still have to unplugged the
 OTG cable after listening 
 I have also replaced my Samsung Note 2 stock battery (3,100 mAh) with a 9,300 mAh, enough juice to charge the iDSD just in case.
 I'm really enjoying this product, playing DSD files from phone connected thru OTG,... whew!


----------



## Amoy Utot

gr8soundz said:


> With firmware 5.0b the Micro (when turned on) does not sleep to prevent the recharge from kicking in. You should have either a steady light or a blinking green one.
> 
> I updated mine last night and the Micro will still charge when off if it detects more than 100mAh from ANY usb cable (doesn't matter if its from a phone, pc, wall charger, etc).
> 
> I'm guessing, when it comes to power at least, that the Micro can't really tell whether its connected to a phone or pc. If the Micro stopped detecting current when off it would never charge the battery again.


 

 Thank you for your reply,.. firmware 5.0b does not suit my needs. I changed my firmware from 5.0b to 5.0 since I always turn OFF the device after listening,.. and it will still draw power from my phone if I'll leave the OTG cable plugged in. Maybe someday, the iDSD might be able to detect if it is connected to a phone and stops drawing power  and will charge only if it's connected to a computer or a USB charger.


----------



## iFi audio

amoy utot said:


> Hi, Thank you for your reply. I always switch ON the iDSD before connecting the phone.
> I thought firmware 5.0b totally stops the iDSD from drawing power from the phone whether the iDSD is ON or OFF,.. basically, what firmware 5.0b does is keeping the iDSD "ON" all the time even when there is no music detected from the source? Am i right? And if I switch OFF the iDSD thru the potentiometer ON/OFF switch, the iDSD will still draw power from the phone?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The charging system is fully hardware controlled, in order to make sure it works even if the battery is completely flat.
  
 So, turning off overrides the software control completely and has to, to force the unit to charge if the battery is flat and the Chip the software runs on cannot start up.
  
 The Sleep/Charging mode was added to maximise battery life in use on Laptops etc. specifically for turbo mode. It is meant for stationary use, where you may just leave the whole system running but not play music all the time.
  
 Then it is ok to draw charge from the PC (effectively return to USB powered mode) as no-one is listening, once Music is playing again we are back to pure battery operation.
  
 The issues we had with sleep mode were two-fold.
 1) For one, some people with very sensitive systems/headphones etc. find that the small click when the iDSD micro enters sleep mode is objectionable, as it is much amplified.
  
 2) The other is that some recent smartphones and Tablets have fitted USB OTG Systems that provide 500mA charge current. In this case the iDSD micro treats the smartphone/tablet as a standard computer with mains power or a very big battery and draws charge current. For smartphones especially this can cause problems with battery life.
  
 Firmware 5.0B should be used:
  
 i) If you find that iDSD micro goes often into sleep mode and as a result draws down your Phone/Tablet battery unaccetably (you need to check your Android device as there are simply too many out there).
  
 ii) If you find the small 'click' generated by entering/exiting sleep mode unaccetable in your system context.
  
 If you have neither problem stick with 5.0.
  
 Note that if using Firmware 5.0B you must unplug the USB connection to use the SPDIF input, for Firmware 5.0 the switchover to SPDIF is automatic as long as there is no music playing on the USB Link.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Anyone else here uses their Micro iDSD with the iUSb o/and the Gemini USB cable?
  

 Would like to hear your impressions. A few reviews did say it improved the sound, but I would like to hear the opinions of owners.


----------



## Franatic

Yes, I have used the idsd with both the iusb power and gemini cable in a desktop setup.. I was very happy with it.................then I bought the Uptone Regen. With the Regen, I no longer use the iusb power or gemini cable. I connect a PPA usb cable directly to the Regen and power both the idsd and the regen through an LPSU connected to the Regen. Incredible sound quality. I must say it is a big improvement over the idsd/ gemini cable/ iusb power combo.


----------



## gr8soundz

franatic said:


> Yes, I have used the idsd with both the iusb power and gemini cable in a desktop setup.. I was very happy with it.................then I bought the Uptone Regen. With the Regen, I no longer use the iusb power or gemini cable. I connect a PPA usb cable directly to the Regen and power both the idsd and the regen through an LPSU connected to the Regen. Incredible sound quality. I must say it is a big improvement over the idsd/ gemini cable/ iusb power combo.


 
  
 Thanks. Good to know. I keep looking at all the usb options and wondered how much the Regen improves the Micro. Plus its less expensive than either the Gemini or iUSB.
  
 Which LPSU are you using? Also, how does the Regen sound when using its included power supply instead?


----------



## Franatic

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks. Good to know. I keep looking at all the usb options and wondered how much the Regen improves the Micro. Plus its less expensive than either the Gemini or iUSB.
> 
> Which LPSU are you using? Also, how does the Regen sound when using its included power supply instead?


 
 I now have an HDPlex LPSU on it http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-Linear-Power-Supply-for-PC-Audio-and-CE-device.html
 This really upgrades the SQ. I bought the HD Plex for a future audio pc build.
  
 A cheaper option which works well is this  http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-Linear-Power-Supply-/181467993450
  
 Of course, the one supplied with the Regen gives very good SQ, you just get better as you upgrade. Uptone is supposed to introduce their own supply upgrade in a few months if you want to wait. Either way the Regen is a winner and gets the best possible signal to the amazing micro. I cannot believe the sound quality coming out of ifi's little magic box.


----------



## gr8soundz

franatic said:


> I now have an HDPlex LPSU on it http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Fanless-Linear-Power-Supply-for-PC-Audio-and-CE-device.html
> This really upgrades the SQ. I bought the HD Plex for a future audio pc build.
> 
> A cheaper option which works well is this  http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-Linear-Power-Supply-/181467993450
> ...


 
  
 The TeraDak is already on my ebay watch list. Couldn't decide if I wanted just the nice usb cable pictured with it or the whole unit (trying to keep wall power plugs to a minimum).
  
 Ifi also has their new iPower adapters too. Not sure if the 5V or 9V iPower would work with the Regen but spec wise that looks like a good combo.
  
 Also not sure how much better it'd sound on my fanless PC. I'm using an MSI motherboard with clean 5V usb rail and an Seasonic psu with <5mV ripple. USB could always be cleaner but my Micro already sounds great out of it (I know, we all think that at first but I did build the PC just for audio before getting the iDSD). I'd hate to spend another $200+ unless it would make a significant difference in MY particular setup.


----------



## Franatic

It would help......even without a PS upgrade. I'm sure they would take it back if you don't like it. I don't believe they had to eat one yet.
  
 Also the AudioQuest Jitterbug is a nice addition to your usb line for $49. I have both.


----------



## Thenewguy007

franatic said:


> Yes, I have used the idsd with both the iusb power and gemini cable in a desktop setup.. I was very happy with it.................then I bought the Uptone Regen. With the Regen, I no longer use the iusb power or gemini cable. I connect a PPA usb cable directly to the Regen and power both the idsd and the regen through an LPSU connected to the Regen. Incredible sound quality. I must say it is a big improvement over the idsd/ gemini cable/ iusb power combo.


 
  
  
 So I connect a Teradak Power Supply to the wall & plug a usb cable from it to the USB Regen (which also has a power adapter connected to a wall plug) & another USB cable from it to the Micro iFi?
 That how it works?
 This will sound noticeably better than the iUSB Power with Dual Gemini USB cable (and cheaper as well)?
  
 What's PPA cable are you using? Google is giving me different search results for what a PPA cable looks like.
  
_EDIT:_
 also isn't the AudioQuest Jitterbug just another version of the iFi iPurifier, which is supposed to already be inside the Micro iDSD?


----------



## gr8soundz

thenewguy007 said:


> So I connect a Teradak Power Supply to the wall & plug a usb cable from it to the USB Regen (which also has a power adapter connected to a wall plug) & another USB cable from it to the Micro iFi?
> 
> also isn't the AudioQuest Jitterbug just another version of the iFi iPurifier, which is supposed to already be inside the Micro iDSD?


 
  
 Confusing isn't it?
  
 Only way to know for yourself if or how much better it all sounds is by hooking them all up at the same time then swap/remove/shift things around.
  
 Might actually be fun if all those pieces (just for USB) didn't cost $350.........


----------



## Franatic

Connect the usb output cable to the Regen and the Regen to the idsd.
  
 The Teradak has a 2.5 mm barrel connector that connects power to the Regen. The Regen removes the input usb power from the pc and will supply its own  power to the idsd via the usb cable. That is why a good supply on the Regen makes so much difference. 
  
 Here is the PPA usb cable  http://www.highend-audiopc.com/shop/en/usb-cables/paul-pang-audio-tz-yun-red-usb-cable
  
 If you are aiming for better SQ, cables and clean power are essential. It is a personal decision if it is worth it..........it is not cheap.


----------



## Music Path

_EDIT:_
also isn't the AudioQuest Jitterbug just another version of the iFi iPurifier, which is supposed to already be inside the Micro iDSD?
[/quote]

No its different.


----------



## Music Path

gr8soundz said:


> Confusing isn't it?
> 
> Only way to know for yourself if or how much better it all sounds is by hooking them all up at the same time then swap/remove/shift things around.
> 
> Might actually be fun if all those pieces (just for USB) didn't cost $350.........




Its kinda like expensive LEGO.


----------



## Franatic

If I was on a budget and had to choose the most cost effective upgrade to my usb line, I would add the $49 Jitterbug. No additional cabling, no power supply...easy.
  
 That being said, the Regen is the most effective upgrade and it is $175. It is well worth the cost.


----------



## gr8soundz

I'm leaning more toward the Regen plus the Jitterbug.
  
 Only decisions left are whether to swap out the Regen power supply and which usb cable to use (which is always the question).


----------



## Thenewguy007

My PC has a 'SPDIF Out' slot in the back & my TV has a 'Digital Audio Out (Optical)' slot.
  
 Do I even need to use the USB cable or even the iUSB clean power supply for my Mico iDSD?
  
 I never used those slots before because I never had equipment that had optical in/out.
 I literally don't know how to use them & don't even know what cables I would need to buy to utilize them.
  
 My PC

  
  
 My TV

  
  
 I remember reading somewhere that those slots have no interference/noise & offer a better sound quality than USB.
  
 How would I hook my Micro iDSD to my PC with them?


----------



## gr8soundz

The Micro's usb port only works to charge it and to use it as a PC sound card. So hooking that up to your TV won't do anything.
  
 Not sure why you'd wanna connect the Micro to your tv buy you'll need a toslink to mini optical cable like this (or use a regular spdif cable with the Micro's included adapter on 1 end):
 http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-THINTOSMIN6-Toslink-Digital-Optical/dp/B00016W6Y6/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1440619014&sr=1-7&keywords=toslink+to+mini+optical+cable&pebp=1440619045551&perid=1YT0BS85Q8FJDBR17PB
  
 Just remember the Micro can't decoce Dolby or DTS that might come out of some tvs. Make sure the tv is set to PCM.


----------



## Thenewguy007

gr8soundz said:


> The Micro's usb port only works to charge it and to use it as a PC sound card. So hooking that up to your TV won't do anything.
> 
> Not sure why you'd wanna connect the Micro to your tv


 
  
 Can't I use the Mico's amp if I connect it?
  
 I just won't be able to use the DAC right?
 There is a USB port on my TV though, will I be able to use the DAC portion then or is it useless other than anything but a PC/MAC/iPhone/Android?


----------



## Koolpep

thenewguy007 said:


> Can't I use the Mico's amp if I connect it?
> 
> I just won't be able to use the DAC right?
> 
> There is a USB port on my TV though, will I be able to use the DAC portion then or is it useless other than anything but a PC/MAC/iPhone/Android?




You can use the micro as dac and amp when connecting it via optical. The adapter from standard optical spdif to 3.5mm optical is in the micro's package. Switch the TV to output PCM.

The micro needs power once it's battery has run down, so you need a USB power source, unless you want to use the micro solely from battery.

The USB port on your tv is to access media files, not to output information, so you are out of luck there (most likely).

What puzzles me though is why you don't man up, read the manual, read up on some basic digital audio (all available for free in this very forum) and try things out instead of posting your whinging/passive aggressive questions in the impressions, reviews and comments thread. We are a very helpful bunch but I think you are overdoing it a bit. 

The manual will tell you that you can use (far from useless) the amp of the micro with any analog sound source you can connect to its front 3.5mm input.

The ifi iDSD micro is one of the most versatile and high quality audio products I have seen and heard. It's like the Swiss Army knife of digital audio.

Cheers,
K

Edit: added the smiley so it's not misunderstood.


----------



## Thenewguy007

koolpep said:


> You can use the micro as dac and amp when connecting it via optical. The adapter from standard optical spdif to 3.5mm optical is in the micro's package. Switch the TV to output PCM.
> 
> The micro needs power once it's battery has run down, so you need a USB power source, unless you want to use the micro solely from battery.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That would have been easier, but my Micro iDSD didn't come with a manual or the optical cable.


----------



## JuleZ3C

thenewguy007 said:


> That would have been easier, but my Micro iDSD didn't come with a manual or the optical cable.


 

 You can rejoice now : iFi got a website.
 They have the manual there.
http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/manual/micro iDSD Manual.pdf


----------



## Koolpep

thenewguy007 said:


> That would have been easier, but my Micro iDSD didn't come with a manual or the optical cable.


 
  
 Of course not, why would they ship you every cable with every adapter under the sun? They supply more than the usual amount of cables and adapters, more than any device I know. You can use any optical cable - it's standard. The manual is available for free on their website as it's printed on the quick start guide that is included. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 SMH


----------



## gixxerwimp

koolpep said:


> thenewguy007 said:
> 
> 
> > That would have been easier, but my Micro iDSD didn't come with a manual or the optical cable.
> ...


 
  
  
 @*Thenewguy007: * People here are *very* helpful, but you've obviously baffled many of us with your lack of initiative and as @Koolpep put it so well, your "whinging/passive aggressive questions" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's how I would have handled it if I were you:
  

You have these digital outputs on your PC and TV. Dig out the user's manuals and see what they say about using them.

The micro iDSD's user's manual, *at the very beginning*, says this:

Your micro iDSD comes with the Toslink Mini-Plug to Toslink adapter. This photo is from ClieOS's very informative review that I pointed out to you in this post answering an earlier question of yours. The adapter is circled in red.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4365#post_11849348

Armed with this information, you may not yet know what a Toslink cable is. Google is your friend.
 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Toslink+cable
  
 If, after doing all this, you're still not sure what to do, then by all means post a question.


----------



## DBronx

Hi All,
  
 I just bought my iDSD micro and am getting the hang of it; but I do have a question....
  
 In the manual, referring to the Digital filter, iFi says: "For DSD, select Extreme/Extended/Standard to find the one that sounds best for listening" but I only see  "Bit-Perfect - Minimum Phase -  Standard" settings. So I'm not sure what Extreme or Extended is referring to.
  
 Can someone clarify this?


----------



## Franatic

Read section 11 of this manual. The labeling on the micro is for PCM. Using the chart you can correlate the corresponding DSD selection.
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/manual/micro%20iDSD%20Manual.pdf


----------



## DBronx

So depending on the input source, you have to mentally change the nomenclature of the switch positions?


----------



## john57

dbronx said:


> So depending on the input source, you have to mentally change the nomenclature of the switch positions?


 
 yes as your ears your guide. You are switching from digital filters to analog filters for DSD.


----------



## jhwalker

dbronx said:


> So depending on the input source, you have to mentally change the nomenclature of the switch positions?


 

 Yes, and even worse:  Bit-Perfect is the best setting for PCM, while Standard (i.e., the other end of the switch position) is recommended for DSD.  For those of us who'd like to use it in our main system, either have to "settle" for the best PCM setting but worst DSD setting, or vice versa


----------



## john57

jhwalker said:


> Yes, and even worse:  Bit-Perfect is the best setting for PCM, while Standard (i.e., the other end of the switch position) is recommended for DSD.  For those of us who'd like to use it in our main system, either have to "settle" for the best PCM setting but worst DSD setting, or vice versa


 
 For me I would not use Bit-Perfect but minimum phase works best for PCM. There are users that can hear some noise on Bit-Perfect. What works for DSD best can also vary depending if you using 1xDSD 2xDSD or higher. You get to choose what will work best for you without anyone telling you what best.


----------



## dubbcd

the led color, anyone find some information about it?
  
 green
  
 blue
  
 white
  
 amber


----------



## DBronx

john57 said:


> yes as your ears your guide. You are switching from digital filters to analog filters for DSD.


 
  
  


jhwalker said:


> Yes, and even worse:  Bit-Perfect is the best setting for PCM, while Standard (i.e., the other end of the switch position) is recommended for DSD.  For those of us who'd like to use it in our main system, either have to "settle" for the best PCM setting but worst DSD setting, or vice versa


 

 Thanks guys.. I wish the documentation explained it so clearly.
  
 All these options are overwhelming to the newbie - especially when references are made to settings I don't see..


----------



## USAudio

dubbcd said:


> the led color, anyone find some information about it?
> 
> green
> 
> ...


 
 Here you go:  http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/manual/micro%20iDSD%20Manual.pdf
 See the section "LED".


----------



## USAudio

I'm enjoying the iFi Micro iDSD, it's amazing how much high-end technology they've packed into such a small package and for a reasonable price (made in China).
 I use the Micro iDSD exclusively on the desktop plugged into a Mac Mini, so I never have use for the power charging port on the side of the unit:
 http://www.technoheadphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_4061.jpg
 iFi bundles lots of accessories with the Micro iDSD but one thing I wish they had also provided was a dust cover/cap for the power charging port to keep dust and debris out, maybe something like this:
 http://www.rookaps.com/images/klugs.jpg
 Seems like it would be especially useful if you do use the unit as a portable when you are out and about.
 Overall a great product.


----------



## john57

dbronx said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just bought my iDSD micro and am getting the hang of it; but I do have a question....
> 
> ...


 
 Extreme/Extended/Standard are the analog DSD filters that tells the Micro what frequency  to start the filtering out the High frequency noise that is part of all DSD files. The standard DSD filter will start sooner at a lower frequency which might be good for 64DSD files. If you have 128 or higher DSD files you can try the extended or Extreme, less sharp curve, if you can hear a difference. If you can not hear a difference it may be safer just to leave it at standard for DSD files so that less high frequency noise will slip thru. That is my simple explanation.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Is there a iFi DAC only equivalent of this?
 I just don't need the amp function of the Micro iDSD & feel like I wasted extra money by having it.
  
 I also haven't used the DSD/DXD features at all. There just doesn't seem to be enough available content for them & the process to get it to work seems like an awful lot to go through.
  
 I remember people saying the iDAC was inferior to the Micro iDSD in terms of DAC performance.
 This does have two Burr-Brown DAC chips inside, that's what makes it better right &  the top of the line DAC performance compared to other more expensive competitors?


----------



## john57

Well you could look at the IDAC2 that came out.


----------



## Ivabign

dubbcd said:


> the led color, anyone find some information about it?
> 
> green
> 
> ...


 

 You reviewed it (iDSD) - how is it that you do not have that information with your equipment?


----------



## DBronx

john57 said:


> Extreme/Extended/Standard are the analog DSD filters that tells the Micro what frequency  to start the filtering out the High frequency noise that is part of all DSD files. The standard DSD filter will start sooner at a lower frequency which might be good for 64DSD files. If you have 128 or higher DSD files you can try the extended or Extreme, less sharp curve, if you can hear a difference. If you can not hear a difference it may be safer just to leave it at standard for DSD files so that less high frequency noise will slip thru. That is my simple explanation.


 

 This would be handy to memorize... thanks


----------



## dubbcd

ivabign said:


> You reviewed it (iDSD) - how is it that you do not have that information with your equipment?


 
 coz i missed


----------



## kurb1980

I set my iDSD to standard and prefer to use the filters and modulators in HQP DSD256!


----------



## gixxerwimp

john57 said:


> dbronx said:
> 
> 
> > Hi All,
> ...


 
  
 From the iDSD manual:

PCM (digital filter)Bit-PerfectMinimum-PhaseStandardDSD (analog filter)ExtremeExtendedStandard
  
 On my unit playing DSD files, *Standard sounds brightest* and *Extreme starts cutting off at a much lower frequency*. The manual says to select “Standard” for measurements for both PCM and DSD. My thinking is that the Standard filter (digital for PCM and analog for DSD) lets "the most through" and will therefore measure better (insert much hand waving here).
  
 My original iDAC2 actually had the analog filter settings reversed (brightest on Extreme, dullest on Standard). I couldn't say for sure what the behaviour of the digital filters was. iFi sent me a replacement unit and the DSD filters now behave the same as the ones on my micro iDSD.
  
 I can't tell much difference between the 3 digital filter settings and so leave it at Minimum Phase. For DSD, Standard is too harsh and Extreme too stifled, so I leave it at Extended. It's a happy medium for me for all file types.


----------



## aCuria

@iFi

I have said this before, but after using this product for quite awhile I know for sure there has to be a better way to handle swapping between the preamp and headphone outputs.

1) is it possible to have an option to automatically mute the preamp output when headphones are plugged in 

2) otherwise is it possible to have a software option to mute the preamp or headphone output


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> 1) Firmware v5.0 optimises DSD via DoP was launched a few days ago to give it equal performance; freedom from clicks and sound quality on par with native DSD (which was up to now, only available on Windows). While the 30% data overhead of DoP is retained, special code optimisation in the iFi firmware brings it level with ASIO native. Sonically, both protocols are now equally good.


 
  
 This is just my technical curiosity, but I don't quite understand what the new v5.0 brings to us micro iDSD owners (other than the v5.0B sleep disable thing).
  
 Does the new optimisation of DoP apply to micro iDSD? (or just the nano iDSD which now supports DSD256 over DoP?).
  
 I use a Mac, and I always though that DoP could achieve equivalent sound quality as the Windows ASIO native mode, as long as it was using the same rate, like DSD64.
 Did the DoP always have some sonic issues that was somehow resolved by the new firmware?
 The DoP overhead is unavoidable, so what else can be done to improve DoP compared to ASIO native?


----------



## iFi audio

acuria said:


> @iFi
> 
> I have said this before, but after using this product for quite awhile I know for sure there has to be a better way to handle swapping between the preamp and headphone outputs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Sorry, this is simply not possible using the circuit toplogy we designed which was optimised first and foremost for sound quality. We did consider it but things would have been made more complex and compromised.
  
 We made the conscious decision to not offer this switching between pre-amp and hp outs and the small comprise was the swapping. No easier way to handle this. It just isn't a simple beast! The iDAC2 is more easier option to use.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

sandalaudio said:


> This is just my technical curiosity, but I don't quite understand what the new v5.0 brings to us micro iDSD owners (other than the v5.0B sleep disable thing).
> 
> Does the new optimisation of DoP apply to micro iDSD? (or just the nano iDSD which now supports DSD256 over DoP?).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 DoP has minimal overhead on the PC Side, it simply adds 8 Bits that alternate between two Values, this is trivial and the impact on PC playback is minimal (compare CPU utilisation between playing 176.4kHz PCM and single speed DSD)..
  
 There is overhead when decoding DoP over native on the DAC side as a separate core is needed on XMOS for that. Optmising the code reduces the impact of this extra processing a lot.
  
 Over on the Crowd-Designed thread, we went through the 'beyond datasheet' details. There is a lot to crunch through:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-and-the-new-firmware-flavours-are-here-page-138
  
  
 These are the most pertinent:
  
 Software Design Team's Notes - 1 - the XMOS solution

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-the-meaty-monsters-are-flying-out-page-95/510#post_10545817

 Software Design Team's Notes - 2 - star clocking

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-the-meaty-monsters-are-flying-out-page-95/525#post_10569555
  
 With our own firmware, we always try to squeeze every last drop from the XMOS chipset.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ultraman

Not knowing when the battery will run out is a problem. It has happened to me so many times that the battery just run out.
 Is it something that will be fixed?


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> DoP has minimal overhead on the PC Side, it simply adds 8 Bits that alternate between two Values, this is trivial and the impact on PC playback is minimal (compare CPU utilisation between playing 176.4kHz PCM and single speed DSD)..
> 
> There is overhead when decoding DoP over native on the DAC side as a separate core is needed on XMOS for that. Optmising the code reduces the impact of this extra processing a lot.


 
  
 Thanks for the fast and detailed response.
 So I'd take it that the v5.0 has benefits on the micro iDSD for DoP playback, because XMOS is less stressed, hence less effect on the other important parts of the D/A process.
  
 Thanks for all the hard work. It's sounding great and the Mac firmware updater worked flawlessly.


----------



## Music Path

Nice FW update. The 5.0 version has a smoot sound, almost fluid. Great work from ifi.
 Would like to know if the Ifi atenuators are almost coming too?


----------



## rickyleelee

kurb1980 said:


> I set my iDSD to standard and prefer to use the filters and modulators in HQP DSD256!




The micro led pulses red. I would like more notice as it only has 15-20 mins left in the tank.


----------



## effsandoval

I currently bought a Sony Z1 compact since it was very cheap. I was hoping to pair it with the ifi iDSD micro. However, after several attempts it just wouldn't pair. It would probably run on Onkyo or Universal Android Player but my plan was to run the device with Spotify also. I am currently running Android 4.4.4, will an upgrade to Android 5.0 solve the issue?


----------



## effsandoval

I would like to answer my own question and confirm that the ifi iDSD micro did work on the Sony Xperia Z1 Compact running Android 5.0.=)


----------



## Mashi-Maro

Does the iDSD sound closer to Delta-Sigma or R2R DAC?
  
 I know the chip is DS but some say it's analogue sounding.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

mashi-maro said:


> Does the iDSD sound closer to Delta-Sigma or R2R DAC?
> 
> I know the chip is DS but some say it's analogue sounding.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 The DAC chip used in micro iDSD is a Delta-Sigma + R-2R hybrid. In DSD decoding, it uses only the Delta-Sigma section of the DAC. In PCM decoding, it uses the 8bit R-2R section first, then finish up the rest with Delta-Sigma.


----------



## gr8soundz

clieos said:


> The DAC chip used in micro iDSD is a Delta-Sigma + R-2R hybrid. In DSD decoding, it uses only the Delta-Sigma section of the DAC. In PCM decoding, it uses the 8bit R-2R section first, then finish up the rest with Delta-Sigma.


 
  
 The Micro really is the most versatile DAC out there right now.
  
 Do you know if or how changing filters (Standard, Min Phase, etc.) affect the D-S and/or R2R sections of the Micro?


----------



## ClieOS

gr8soundz said:


> The Micro really is the most versatile DAC out there right now.
> 
> Do you know if or how changing filters (Standard, Min Phase, etc.) affect the D-S and/or R2R sections of the Micro?


 
  
 PCM filters apply directly to the digital signal before it goes into the R-2R + Delta-Sigma, while DSD filters apply to the analog sound after the Delta-Sigma. So they don't act directly to the D/A section but more like pre-/post conditioning.


----------



## Maxpain

Hello! I have purchased the micro idsd at least! I am very excited and happy about this device and I can't wait for the 24 hours first charging to end!  I am a little bit confused about the charging otpions though and I could use some help with this.
  
 I know that when I power the devide before connecting it to the computer then it runs on battery mode instead of getting the power from the usb bus. Now because I want to use this mostly as a desktop amp/dac,I would like to know if the amp and the dac section allways run from the battery (battery power has its bennefits) when using battery mode? What I want is to have it allways running from battery mode and charging from my usb all the time.
  
 Is this going to harm the battery's life? Is there an optimum way to use the battery mode for a desktop use?
  
 When in usb power mode does it complete bypassed the batter and feeding the amp/dac directly from the usb bus? Is this preffered for better batter life?
  
 And at last I would like to know if there is a problem that my computer has usb 2.0 ports and the idsd cable is usb 3.0.
  
 Thanks for your help in advance! Cheers


----------



## gr8soundz

On the previous firmware the battery would top off to optimum 80% if the Micro was always getting power from usb. It was designed that way to help extend long-term battery life. Not sure if version 5.0 changes that 80%.
  
 Doesn't matter, usb 2.0 or 3.0 will work. I think iFi included a 3.0 cable due to it being better/higher spec than a 2.0 cable.


----------



## Maxpain

So how can I use the battery mode while alleays connected to the pc via usb?


----------



## gr8soundz

maxpain said:


> So how can I use the battery mode while alleays connected to the pc via usb?


 
  
 Turn the Micro on before connecting the usb cable and/or turn the Micro on before powering up the PC..
  
 If your usb ports supply power even when the computer is off, you may need to unplug the usb cable, turn on the Micro, then reconnect the usb to run in battery mode.


----------



## Maxpain

And if i do that will the micro keep charging from the usb while playing from battery mode or it will play untill the battery is out? 

Can you also suggest wich power mode is prefferable for longer battery life?


----------



## Mashi-Maro

clieos said:


> The DAC chip used in micro iDSD is a Delta-Sigma + R-2R hybrid. In DSD decoding, it uses only the Delta-Sigma section of the DAC. In PCM decoding, it uses the 8bit R-2R section first, then finish up the rest with Delta-Sigma.


 
  
 Hi. Can you please elaborate on this concept on the R2R section, is it like a class A/B amp that leaves class A after a certain Watt?
 Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

mashi-maro said:


> Hi. Can you please elaborate on this concept on the R2R section, is it like a class A/B amp that leaves class A after a certain Watt?
> Thanks.


 
  
 No, it doesn't work like that. The first 8 bit is converted to analog signal (voltage) by the R-2R, then the rest goes to D-S and converted to analog signal, then the result is summed together.


----------



## gr8soundz

maxpain said:


> And if i do that will the micro keep charging from the usb while playing from battery mode or it will play untill the battery is out?
> 
> Can you also suggest wich power mode is prefferable for longer battery life?


 
  
 Check the light on your Micro. If it starts to blink then standby is active and it should charge as well (unless your on firmware 5.0b). However, if running in battery mode, it may not charge at the same time.
  
 Eco=longer batt life
 Turbo=shorter batt life


----------



## Spektrograf

After 2 weeks of using this thing (with 24/7 burn-in in effect), I have to say it's a VERY impressive piece of kit. It's also ridiculous how much I've been using the 3D Holographic feature. I thought I wouldn't touch it since I've really disliked all previous implementations of crossfeed that I've sampled—from hardware to software implementations like FHX. For certain live recordings, it really does give a sense of "there". Hats off to iFi for building such a great value! Still shaking my head in disbelief.


----------



## DBronx

So I have two question.
  
 a. I'm not sure what firmware my Micro is at - I have not flashed it to the 5.0x version yet. How can I tell my revision.
 b When listening to a DSD album via USB Player Pro, I'm hearing a slight tick at the start of each track, is this a known issue and can I expect the 5.0x firmware to resolve it?
  
 Thanks for all your help !!


----------



## iFi audio

spektrograf said:


> After 2 weeks of using this thing (with 24/7 burn-in in effect), I have to say it's a VERY impressive piece of kit. It's also ridiculous how much I've been using the 3D Holographic feature. I thought I wouldn't touch it since I've really disliked all previous implementations of crossfeed that I've sampled—from hardware to software implementations like FHX. For certain live recordings, it really does give a sense of "there". Hats off to iFi for building such a great value! Still shaking my head in disbelief.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 A few reasons for this:
  
 1) 3D Holographic is Analogue Signal Processing (ie: not Digital Signal Processing).
  
 2) It is just crossfeed, one has to have an interest in psycho acoustics to truly recreate the aural sensation of speakers when using headphones.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Spektrograf

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> A few reasons for this:
> 
> ...


 
 Huh, that's interesting. I have crossfeed in my other gear and in various software players and it doesn't sound quite like this. Must be in your implementation. Nice job nonetheless.


----------



## LoryWiv

maxpain said:


> Hello! I have purchased the micro idsd at least! I am very excited and happy about this device and I can't wait for the 24 hours first charging to end!  I am a little bit confused about the charging otpions though and I could use some help with this.
> 
> I know that when I power the devide before connecting it to the computer then it runs on battery mode instead of getting the power from the usb bus. Now because I want to use this mostly as a desktop amp/dac,I would like to know if the amp and the dac section allways run from the battery *(battery power has its bennefits) *when using battery mode? What I want is to have it allways running from battery mode and charging from my usb all the time.


 
 What are the benefits of battery power rather than USB in IDSD. I know the micro has a circuit to eliminate noise similar to the stand alone iPurifier.


----------



## technobear

dbronx said:


> a. I'm not sure what firmware my Micro is at - I have not flashed it to the 5.0x version yet. How can I tell my revision.




Run the firmware updater:

C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe

This will report the current firmware.




dbronx said:


> b When listening to a DSD album via USB Player Pro, I'm hearing a slight tick at the start of each track, is this a known issue and can I expect the 5.0x firmware to resolve it?




Yes.


----------



## DBronx

Quote: Originally Posted by *DBronx* 

 a. I'm not sure what firmware my Micro is at - I have not flashed it to the 5.0x version yet. How can I tell my revision.




 Run the firmware updater:

 C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe

 This will report the current firmware.
  
 Quote: Originally Posted by *DBronx* 

 b When listening to a DSD album via USB Player Pro, I'm hearing a slight tick at the start of each track, is this a known issue and can I expect the 5.0x firmware to resolve it?



  
  
 Wonderful... Thanks so much!


----------



## greenpsycho

Might seem from out of left field, but I was curious if anyone knew the stocking situation with the idsd micro?  Everywhere I look seems out of stock, which makes me think either a) this is really popular and flying off the shelves OR b) another version/iteration is coming out soon. Anyone have any guesses?


----------



## Franatic

That could be another clue in this contest:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/779504/ifi-launch-competition-guess-the-upcoming-new-product-new-staff-member-and-clue-5-page-7/120#post_11899301
  
 I am waiting for the idsd pro. Nothing else they come out with interests me at this point.


----------



## HotIce

Does the iDSD support 24bit?
At least on Linux, I am able to drive it only at 16bit and 32bit.
Pretty happy with it so far.


----------



## Franatic

hotice said:


> Does the iDSD support 24bit?
> At least on Linux, I am able to drive it only at 16bit and 32bit.
> Pretty happy with it so far.


 
 Yes, it supports 24 bit output. I have my Jplay settings at 'force 24 bit'. Works great.
  
 The dac portion of the idsd is fantastic. I use it as my desktop dac w/ line output.


----------



## gixxerwimp

gixxerwimp said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Or better still, as we are talking about the micro iDSD, just use the blue USB3.0 cable in the micro DSD box as USB3.0 is spec'd better than USB2.0 anyway.
> ...


 
  
@iFi audio sent me a replacement for the cable described above. It looks like the design of this cable allows the outer rubber sheath to rotate "freely" inside the strain relief at the female end. My original cable can almost rotate 180 degrees now at the female end, and I haven't ever twisted it very hard. The replacment cable can rotate a few degrees if twisted gently. I can't tell how the outer sheath is attached inside the female connector, but IMO it would be longer lasting if it were solidly welded to the strain relief as it is on the male connector end.
  

  
There's no gap at the male end because the sheath is solidly welded to the strain relief as on every other USB cable I've seen. There's a gap at the female end because the sheath is not welded to the strain relief and I suspect could be twisted free from whatever is holding it inside the connector.

No matter how hard I twist the $2 cable I bought locally, I cannot detach the sheath from the strain relief. Notwithstanding the electrical characteristics, this cheap cable still gives me more mechanical confidence than the blue iFi USB 3.0 cable.
  
 Edit: They also sent me a spare 1/4"-1/8" adapter, mini-TOSLINK adapter, 3.5mm-3.5mm cable for analog out, and spare rubber feet, as well as one of their cloth bags with my cable, which was a nice touch!


----------



## knorris908

gixxerwimp said:


> @iFi audio
> sent me a replacement for the cable described above. It looks like the design of this cable allows the outer rubber sheath to rotate "freely" inside the strain relief at the female end. My original cable can almost rotate 180 degrees now at the female end, and I haven't ever twisted it very hard. The replacment cable can rotate a few degrees if twisted gently. I can't tell how the outer sheath is attached inside the female connector, but IMO it would be longer lasting if it were solidly welded to the strain relief as it is on the male connector end.
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry that you had that kind of problem with your cable. Not disagreeing, (Not sure how one COULD.) but just to offer an additional account, my iDSD is about a year old now, and I drag mine along with me through airport terminals and hotels on a fairly regular basis with no cable failures to date, and it gets unwound, rewound, and stuffed in my laptop bag constantly! . I have a shorter blue USB 3.0 extension cable as a backup, but I haven't had to use it for anything other than a "quick release" for my D800 and D700 cameras when they are tethered in the studio to reduce to wear and tear on my PC's USB 3.0 ports. 

Then again, I've had my "cheapie" little VMODA Bass Freqs for almost 10 years now and they are still going strong after even more coast to coast in-flight abuse! 

Ken N.


----------



## gixxerwimp

knorris908 said:


> Sorry that you had that kind of problem with your cable. Not disagreeing, (Not sure how one COULD.) but just to offer an additional account, my iDSD is about a year old now, and I drag mine along with me through airport terminals and hotels on a fairly regular basis with no cable failures to date, and it gets unwound, rewound, and stuffed in my laptop bag constantly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing your experience with your iDSD and cable. Mine never failed electronically (though the one I received with my iDAC2 was DOA). Just the sketchy mechanical nature makes me feel like I have to be really careful with it. @audiotweaker experienced the same thing:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4365#post_11845772
  
 Just out of curiosity, how much does your cable freely rotate at the female connector end? Maybe the sheath isn't firmly attached, but everything else inside is.


----------



## knorris908

gixxerwimp said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience with your iDSD and cable. Mine never failed electronically (though the one I received with my iDAC2 was DOA). Just the sketchy mechanical nature makes me feel like I have to be really careful with it. @audiotweaker
> experienced the same thing:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4365#post_11845772
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how much does your cable freely rotate at the female connector end? Maybe the sheath isn't firmly attached, but everything else inside is.




Sure thing! I just grabbed mine from my laptop bag. Clockwise only about a 5 degree rotation. Counter-clockwise, mine rotates about 50-60 degrees. (This is connector oriented AWAY from me, looking at the gap between the boot and cable jacket.)


----------



## knorris908

On the left, the female end of the iFi provided USB 3.0 cable. On the right, my generic USB 3.0 extension cable. Almost identical aside from the female end metal receptical being exposed where the iFi cable female side is fully-jacketed, but the boot is bonded to the cable coating on both ends. Trade-off for what you prefer I guess... I prefer that the iFi cable isn't exposed on the female end, but now that you've pointed this out, I may just use a thin coating of rubber cement at the boot edges to be safe and limit the rotation since this is my favorite USB 3.0 extension cable, and I don't want to have anything happen to it.


----------



## rickyleelee

Can iFi confirm if this is normal? I have it on my cable too. Is it a splity or is a separate mold?


----------



## citraian

I think this was covered before but I can't find it at the moment. Does somebody else notice a big channel imbalance at lower volumes like 9 or 10 oclock?


----------



## iancraig10

It's common with most amps using an analogue volume pot. Lower the gain of the Micro so that you are using the volume further up, nearer to 12 o clock or even 2 o clock.


----------



## obsidyen

citraian said:


> I think this was covered before but I can't find it at the moment. Does somebody else notice a big channel imbalance at lower volumes like 9 or 10 oclock?


 
 Yes... 3 o'clock is the sweet spot but I agree it's somewhat annoying.


----------



## iFi audio

rickyleelee said:


> Can iFi confirm if this is normal? I have it on my cable too. Is it a splity or is a separate mold?


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Some havealso asked. This shows two separate moulds as all the blue USB3.0 cables have been formed like this.
  
 So nope, the cable is absolutely fine and should carry USB signals like nobody's business! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks.


----------



## Thenewguy007

gixxerwimp said:


> @*Thenewguy007: * People here are *very* helpful, but you've obviously baffled many of us with your lack of initiative and as @Koolpep put it so well, your "whinging/passive aggressive questions"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 So I finally want to try the optical cables out on my PC, see if there will be any improvement over using the USB cable.
 I connected the longer end part to my Micro

  
 and the shoter bit to the back of my PC

  
 & I get no sound, what am I doing wrong?


----------



## Brooko

thenewguy007 said:


> So I finally want to try the optical cables out on my PC, see if there will be any improvement over using the USB cable.
> I connected the longer end part to my Micro
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Assuming you are using Windows, right click the windows volume icon in the bottom left "tray", choose playback devices.  Make sure your spdif out option is chosen as default device.
  
 That's on Win7.  Can't remember how Win8 / Win10 does it.  But basically you need to select your spdif as your default output.


----------



## Thenewguy007

brooko said:


> Assuming you are using Windows, right click the windows volume icon in the bottom left "tray", choose playback devices.  Make sure your spdif out option is chosen as default device.
> 
> That's on Win7.  Can't remember how Win8 / Win10 does it.  But basically you need to select your spdif as your default output.


 
  
 Thanks, that worked!


----------



## JamesBr

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Some havealso asked. This shows two separate moulds as all the blue USB3.0 cables have been formed like this.
> 
> ...


 
 +1, Thanks


----------



## Thenewguy007

CRAP! Can't get the Micro to work with my TV.
  
 Plugged the optical cable to the back of my TV to my Micro & sound is only coming out of the TV & not the headphones.
  
 I see no settings on my HDTV's audio options to set it to output the optical cable like I did with my PC.
  
 I also saw my PS4 also has a optical input. Tried plugged the Micro to that in & then selecting the audio option to output through Digital Out (optical) rather than HDMI, but too doesn't work.
 I tried connecting the optical cable back to the TV & then selecting the Digital Out (optical) option on my PS4, but that didn't work either.


----------



## gr8soundz

thenewguy007 said:


> CRAP! Can't get the Micro to work with my TV.
> 
> Plugged the optical cable to the back of my TV to my Micro & sound is only coming out of the TV & not the headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What are you doing!?
  
 Forgive me for asking but, why did you buy the Micro and what do you really intend to use it with/for?
  
 Doesn't make much sense to focus on the optical in/out when its clear your not very familiar with how optical ports operate on different devices.
  
 Apologize if this comes off as a bit harsh but you're posting about things that aren't necessarily specific to the Micro (which is part of what this thread is about). I know first hand how time consuming (I'm talking MORE than a few hours worth) research can be but I recommend taking the time to google and read about optical (and any other areas needed) in general. You'll then find experimenting (if that is your goal) much easier.


----------



## iancraig10

Of course the Micro works with TV.

In fact it makes sense. In the UK, digital radio is broadcast at a higher bit rate than broadcast over air. You also lose airborne/electrical noise.

It's a simple connection as long as the TV is putting optical out. With the Micro, you should have got a long adapter plug which fits over the plug coming from the TV lead. I bought a lead with the optical on one end and the TV plug on the other.

Simply plug it into the 'optical' socket on the micro. It looks kind of wrong since the socket is a phono, but it does fit. (The coaxial input)

I am using a Panasonic TV and no setting up was necessary. You just plug in. If this doesn't work, you need to take a look at the TV manual. I'm pretty sure that the optical out on TVs is always on.


----------



## Thenewguy007

gr8soundz said:


> What are you doing!?
> 
> Forgive me for asking but, why did you buy the Micro and what do you really intend to use it with/for?
> 
> Doesn't make much sense to focus on the optical in/out when its clear your not very familiar with how optical ports operate on different devices.


 
  
 Never used a optical cable before & the micro is the first device I bought that utilizes it.
   
I got it to work with my TV, along with hooking it up to the optical port on the back of my TV, also I connected RCA cables to the Micro & the other end with a RCA to 3.5mm converter & that to the headphone jack of my TV.

  
 Sound works, but it echoes everything.
  
 So I'm hearing like a ghost sound for every sound.
  
 Just hooking up the optical cable alone from my Micro to the TV doesn't work.


----------



## Koolpep

thenewguy007 said:


> Never used a optical cable before & the micro is the first device I bought that utilizes it.
> 
> I got it to work with my TV, along with hooking it up to the optical port on the back of my TV, also I connected RCA cables to the Micro & the other end with a RCA to 3.5mm converter & that to the headphone jack of my TV.
> 
> ...


 

 Ghost sound comes form your speakers (of the TV) and the slightly delayed sound from the micro.
  
 However, this is not an issue of the micro but your TV. You already successfully played music via optical form another source, so we know the micro works. You should check with the TV and read the manual or check with the manufacturer. If you only hear music when the RCA cable is connected that means that you are not getting a proper optical signal. Again, a TV issue.
  
 Please do experiment and read up on digital audio - this forum has great resources and this thread turns into a newguy help thread instead of a "Impressions, Reviews and Comments" thread of the micro.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## technobear

thenewguy007 said:


> gr8soundz said:
> 
> 
> > What are you doing!?
> ...




Oh for the love of Pete! You should not be allowed to own or touch electronic equipment!

The RCA pair on the back of the iDSD are OUTPUTS.

The headphone socket on the TV is an OUTPUT.

What do you hope to achieve by connecting an output to an output?

What is happening is that the sound from the TV headphone socket is being injected into the iDSD just after the DAC so it is blending with the slightly delayed sound coming from the DAC and is then going through the headphone amp. Hence the echo. Disconnect those RCAs immediately and don't do it again.

There is very likely a setting in your TV to set the type of SPDIF (Optical) output. The one you want is PCM Stereo. If you set it to anything else it won't work because the iDSD, in common with all other stereo DACs, will only understand PCM Stereo.

The same is very likely true on the PS4 but I have never owned a PS so cannot say for sure.


----------



## technobear

One more thing. While you are trying to get SPDIF Optical to work, unplug the USB lead to be sure that you are not putting the iDSD in USB mode.


----------



## Thenewguy007

technobear said:


> One more thing. While you are trying to get SPDIF Optical to work, unplug the USB lead to be sure that you are not putting the iDSD in USB mode.


 

 I still couldn't get it to work directly from my TV. It might have to do with my model of TV.
 The option to select PCM in the audio menu is completely greyed out. It defaults to Stereo & no way to change it with HDMI connected.
  
  
 Though I did get it to work through my PS4.
 I basically did the same thing last night, hooked it up & selected the HDMI sound output & PCM in the PS4 menus. It actually took several seconds before sound actually came through the Micro &  headphone.
 I just took off my headphones last night when I noticed no immediate sound coming through & heard the sound was still coming from the TV.
  
 I just needed to wait about 8-10 seconds instead of immediately assuming it did not work.
 Sound is still coming from my TV, but I can mute the TV speakers.


----------



## technobear

thenewguy007 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > One more thing. While you are trying to get SPDIF Optical to work, unplug the USB lead to be sure that you are not putting the iDSD in USB mode.
> ...




It is normal that you have to turn the TV volume down to zero when using optical out. The TV has no way of knowing since the optical out is always on.


----------



## gixxerwimp

technobear said:


> thenewguy007 said:
> 
> 
> > I just needed to wait about 8-10 seconds instead of immediately assuming it did not work.
> ...


 
  
 This is how I have my TV connected to a 2-channel DAC/amp (not the micro iDSD). To avoid having to turn the TV volume down every time I turn it on, I just plug a 3.5mm adapter into the headphone out. This way, the TV sends the analog audio the the headphone out instead of to its own speakers.


----------



## iFi audio

thenewguy007 said:


> I just needed to wait about 8-10 seconds instead of immediately assuming it did not work.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes - the wait of 5-10 seconds is correct.
  
 Firmware V5.0 does switch over to SPDIF, but it takes around 5 - 10 seconds or so before the windows driver releases the audio connection.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## EleventyPlusOne

I just got a new iDSD Micro a few weeks ago and upgraded to the 5.0 firmware. It sounds great but I have been experiencing what seems to be a malfunction; after about 30-40 minutes of playback (maximum) it no longer plays sound running off of either USB or battery power. Whichever device I have it connected to (iPad, Surface Pro on Win10, Mac Mini) no longer recognizes it. Disconnecting and reconnecting it doesn't seem to resolve the problem either, and on the Surface doesn't even give me an option to select it as my output device. Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## technobear

eleventyplusone said:


> I just got a new iDSD Micro a few weeks ago and upgraded to the 5.0 firmware. It sounds great but I have been experiencing what seems to be a malfunction; after about 30-40 minutes of playback (maximum) it no longer plays sound running off of either USB or battery power. Whichever device I have it connected to (iPad, Surface Pro on Win10, Mac Mini) no longer recognizes it. Disconnecting and reconnecting it doesn't seem to resolve the problem either, and on the Surface doesn't even give me an option to select it as my output device. Has anyone else experienced this?




Did you charge it for 24 hours before first use?

Sounds like a flat battery.


----------



## Music Path

eleventyplusone said:


> I just got a new iDSD Micro a few weeks ago and upgraded to the 5.0 firmware. It sounds great but I have been experiencing what seems to be a malfunction; after about 30-40 minutes of playback (maximum) it no longer plays sound running off of either USB or battery power. Whichever device I have it connected to (iPad, Surface Pro on Win10, Mac Mini) no longer recognizes it. Disconnecting and reconnecting it doesn't seem to resolve the problem either, and on the Surface doesn't even give me an option to select it as my output device. Has anyone else experienced this?




Does it show a red blinking light or blue/red alternating? If so its lack of battery.


----------



## EleventyPlusOne

Thanks for the replies! It was just a white light I believe, and I did charge it for 24h upon arrival as recommended. This also happens when running off of USB power (which is what I use most of the time).


----------



## gr8soundz

eleventyplusone said:


> Thanks for the replies! It was just a white light I believe, and I did charge it for 24h upon arrival as recommended. This also happens when running off of USB power (which is what I use most of the time).


 
  
 Assuming the iFi driver installed properly (in Windows), make sure the program is running. Double click the iFi icon in the right left corner and make sure the usb settings are set to "Extra Safe" and 8192 samples.


----------



## technobear

Could also be a duff cable. Can you try a different USB cable with the supplied adaptor.


----------



## EleventyPlusOne

I'll give those a try once I'm out of the office. Hopefully this will resolve the issue - I'm loving the unit so far otherwise. Thanks everyone!


----------



## goodyfresh

Hey guys so I'm considering getting this.  Is the clock asynchronous?  And is the power-supply from the USB noise-filtered or should I also get the iPurifier?


----------



## Koolpep

goodyfresh said:


> Hey guys so I'm considering getting this.  Is the clock asynchronous?  And is the power-supply from the USB noise-filtered or should I also get the iPurifier?


 

 The iDSD micro has the iPurifier technology build in (as they mention in their tech specs on their website).
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## technobear

koolpep said:


> goodyfresh said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys so I'm considering getting this.  Is the clock asynchronous?  And is the power-supply from the USB noise-filtered or should I also get the iPurifier?
> ...




Yes, it is asynchronous.


----------



## goodyfresh

technobear said:


> Yes, it is asynchronous.


 
 Awesome!  Thanks guys   This settles it, the iDSD Micro is the next thing I'm saving up for


----------



## xanlamin

I have the iDSD Micro for a year now and it's really a very good amp/dac. I was wondering if anyone has found anything that is of better value-for-money than this baby?


----------



## Sound Eq

i am so disappointed by ifi audio, i opened a case at their website, as the blue cable is not working, and until now now one returned to me that was more than 2 months ago


----------



## gixxerwimp

sound eq said:


> i am so disappointed by ifi audio, i opened a case at their website, as the blue cable is not working, and until now now one returned to me that was more than 2 months ago


 
  
 Login and give your ticket a poke. I've already had an iDAC2 with upsidedown filter settings and blue USB cable replaced.


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> i am so disappointed by ifi audio, i opened a case at their website, as the blue cable is not working, and until now now one returned to me that was more than 2 months ago




Are you sure you submitted a ticket? Try again.


----------



## ClieOS

technobear said:


> Are you sure you submitted a ticket? Try again.


 
  
 That will be my question as well. My past experience with iFi support is very positive.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> That will be my question as well. My past experience with iFi support is very positive.


 
 well the last email i got from was asking about the serial number and i sent it to them and that was almost 2 months ago


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> well the last email i got from was asking about the serial number and i sent it to them and that was almost 2 months ago


 
  
 Send again? Human error do happen and electronic information can disappear from time to time. You must be quite patient to wait for two months as I would have sent another email within a week if I don't get a reply.


----------



## Brooko

I had an entire unit returned and checked out, and iFi were brilliant.  Raised a ticket. Then all communication was prompt and always referenced the ticket number.  I'd suggest emailing them and quoting the ticket number.


----------



## goodyfresh

brooko said:


> I had an entire unit returned and checked out, and iFi were brilliant.  Raised a ticket. Then all communication was prompt and always referenced the ticket number.  I'd suggest emailing them and quoting the ticket number.


 

 Why did you have to return it?  Since I'm considering getting this device for myself, it concerns me that quality-control issues seem to be disturbingly common with it.


----------



## Brooko

goodyfresh said:


> Why did you have to return it?  Since I'm considering getting this device for myself, it concerns me that quality-control issues seem to be disturbingly common with it.


 
  
 Where the heck did you get that from?
  
 How many have they sold?  How many issues have been recorded?  Unless you have those two pieces of information, it strikes me that you are leaping to an assumption that is not justified.
  
 I had a small issue with a channel cut-out.  The unit was looked at (and in my particular case nothing was identified as a cause).  The unit was serviced returned, and has continued to run flawlessly.  Given the stellar service I've had from iFi as a company (really fast response times and one-on-one contact with customer reps) - I'd have no issues recommending them.


----------



## goodyfresh

brooko said:


> Where the heck did you get that from?
> 
> How many have they sold?  How many issues have been recorded?  Unless you have those two pieces of information, it strikes me that you are leaping to an assumption that is not justified.
> 
> I had a small issue with a channel cut-out.  The unit was looked at (and in my particular case nothing was identified as a cause).  The unit was serviced returned, and has continued to run flawlessly.  Given the stellar service I've had from iFi as a company (really fast response times and one-on-one contact with customer reps) - I'd have no issues recommending them.


 
 It's just that as soon as someone reported issues with a unit with quality-control in this thread, another guy almost immediately chimed-in claiming he himself had TWO separate issues with the unit, one with "upside-down filter settings" (how the hell would that even happen????) and another with a cable that didn't work.  Then, at least one other guy chimed in saying he'd needed to contact customer service, and then you immediately chimed-in saying that you had to return a unit for service.  It's like as soon as one guy mentioned having issues with his unit, other people IMMEDIATELY started saying they had issues with theirs, as well.  That's what I mean by "disturbing," and that's why I got the impression that such issues are perhaps pretty common.


----------



## ClieOS

goodyfresh said:


> It's just that as soon as someone reported issues with a unit with quality-control in this thread, another guy almost immediately chimed-in claiming he himself had TWO separate issues with the unit, one with "upside-down filter settings" (how the hell would that even happen????) and another with a cable that didn't work.  Then, at least one other guy chimed in saying he'd needed to contact customer service, and then you immediately chimed-in saying that you had to return a unit for service.  It's like as soon as one guy mentioned having issues with his unit, other people IMMEDIATELY started saying they had issues with theirs, as well.  That's what I mean by "disturbing," and that's why I got the impression that such issues are perhaps pretty common.


 
  
 Just to clarify - I need to contact iFi tech support purely because I loaded the wrong firmware onto my device. Totally my fault and It has nothing to do with build quality.
  
 Also, do note that people tend to post only when they have problem, not when they have no problem. It will be totally weird to read a thread full of 'my iFi performs flawlessly today, I'll report in again tomorrow'. If everyone posts like that, you will read a LOT less comment on build quality issue but rather praise. You just need to see this in prospective. Besides, no one can build a flawless device that never breaks down - thus the quality and response speed of the tech support are just as important as the initial build quality of the product, not to mention a company that has a strong tech support also tends to care more about the build quality of their product. That won't be good business if they spend more money fixing problem that they can avoid all together by building a better product.
  
 p/s: I am intrigued by the 'upside-down filter' too. What does that means exactly?


----------



## goodyfresh

clieos said:


> Just to clarify - I need to contact iFi tech support purely because I loaded the wrong firmware onto my device. Totally my fault and It has nothing to do with build quality.
> 
> Also, do note that people tend to post only when they have problem, not when they have no problem. It will be totally weird to read a thread full of 'my iFi performs flawlessly today, I'll report in again tomorrow'. If everyone posts like that, you will read a LOT less comment on build quality issue but rather praise. You just need to see this in prospective. Besides, no one can build a flawless device that never breaks down - thus the quality and response speed of the tech support are just as important as the initial build quality of the product, not to mention a company that has a strong tech support also tends to care more about the build quality of their product. That won't be good business if they spend more money fixing problem that they can avoid all together by building a better product.
> 
> p/s: *I am intrigued by the 'upside-down filter' too. What does that means exactly?*


 

 I totally see your points 

 I suspect the meaning of that is exactly what it sounds like:  That the order of the filters in the three-option switch was bitperfect-minimum-standard ratehr than standard-minimum-bitperfect.  Weiiiird.


----------



## drabbish

how good is the spdif out compared to more expensive converters?


----------



## Koolpep

drabbish said:


> how good is the spdif out compared to more expensive converters?




By approximately 12.7 audiophile enjoyment points (AEP).


----------



## gixxerwimp

goodyfresh said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > p/s: *I am intrigued by the 'upside-down filter' too. What does that means exactly?*
> ...


 
  
 I originally posted in the iDAC2 thread about the DSD analog filters being "upside-down":
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-calling-5-head-fiers-a-litte-surprise-page-37/390#post_11778842
  
 This is what I told iFi when I opened my ticket:


> The DSD filter settings seem to be "upside down". Bit-Perfect (Extreme) sounds brightest (i.e. like "Standard" should) and Standard sounds like the highs have been rolled off. In PCM mode, the filter settings seem to be correct, though it's hard to distinguish any difference between them. I also have a micro iDSD and its filter settings behave as they should (both PCM and DSD). The PCM filter settings seem to make more of a difference on the iDSD than the iDAC2.


 
  
 They're initial response was, "the settings are as they should be ... we can't comment on what you hear". Kind of pissed me off, so I got a bit angry back and everything then proceeded smoothly. Their Hong Kong dealer only received it about a month ago, so they probably haven't had a chance to investigate yet. I asked for an update and will let you guys know when I hear anything.
  
 My replacement iDAC2 behaves as expected playing DSD: Standard is brightest, Bit-Perfect (Extreme) has the highs rolled off. Still don't notice as much with the digital filters playing PCM as I do on my micro iDSD
  
I agree it's strange, as I'm sure the switch can only go onto the board one way. And all he circuitry must be in the PCB. Maybe there's a DIP or SMT part that could be put in with the wrong orientation and have the analog filter still work (just reversed).


----------



## ClieOS

goodyfresh said:


> I totally see your points
> 
> I suspect the meaning of that is exactly what it sounds like:  That the order of the filters in the three-option switch was bitperfect-minimum-standard ratehr than standard-minimum-bitperfect.  Weiiiird.


 
   
 



gixxerwimp said:


> I agree it's strange, as I'm sure the switch can only go onto the board one way. And all he circuitry must be in the PCB. Maybe there's a DIP or SMT part that could be put in with the wrong orientation and have the analog filter still work (just reversed).


 
  
  
 That would only happen if that particular iDAC2 has a completely opposite circuit design than the rest of the iDAC2, since DSD filters are all circuit based. Plus they are soldered by machines, so chance is low that any part will be soldered in the wrong orientation. Then again, even machines can break down sometime. But it is very unlikely as it seems.


----------



## gixxerwimp

clieos said:


> That would only happen if that particular iDAC2 has a completely opposite circuit design than the rest of the iDAC2, since DSD filters are all circuit based. Plus they are soldered by machines, so chance is low that any part will be soldered in the wrong orientation. Then again, even machines can break down sometime. But it is very unlikely as it seems.


 
  
 I completely agree. Which is why I double, triple, quadruple, and finally, quintuple confirmed that this was what I was hearing before I submitted a ticket. I then had the chance to compare my original unit with the replacement unit side-by-side. And unless I'm my ears are really good at playing tricks on me, or I'm an audiophile-psychotic, this is what I observed. Hopefully, they'll be able to explain it.


----------



## Sound Eq

please ifi what is wrong,  can someone look at my ticket from your side
  
 I have been patient for almost 2 months for my ticket
  
 shall I give out my ticket number here????


----------



## gixxerwimp

sound eq said:


> please ifi what is wrong,  can someone look at my ticket from your side
> 
> I have been patient for almost 2 months for my ticket
> 
> shall I give out my ticket number here????


 
  
 Go to this page: http://support.ifi-audio.com/view.php
  
 Fill in your email address and ticket number and they'll email you a link that will allow you to access your ticket thread. Send your inquiry to iFi from there and they should respond within a day.


----------



## Sound Eq

gixxerwimp said:


> Go to this page: http://support.ifi-audio.com/view.php
> 
> Fill in your email address and ticket number and they'll email you a link that will allow you to access your ticket thread. Send your inquiry to iFi from there and they should respond within a day.


 
 i already did that, I am getting impatient now as its took so long


----------



## gixxerwimp

sound eq said:


> i already did that, I am getting impatient now as its took so long


 
  
 OK. Maybe there's something wrong with the original ticket you opened. You could try opening another ticket, and telling them what happened.


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> please ifi what is wrong,  can someone look at my ticket from your side
> 
> I have been patient for almost 2 months for my ticket
> 
> shall I give out my ticket number here????


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Please do not give out any personal information on any public forum - headfi or otherwise.
  
 We just sent you a PM.
   
Just answer and we'll give the STS guys a nudge.

  
 No biggie.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## rickyleelee

I introduced a few non-audio friends to the nano dsd and can. They opened a few dumb user tickets like what is my USB cable split ?( I did that too bty doh!) and how to connect it up and recharge the battery and they replied within one day easy. Not sure what gone on with your ticket but you should re-send another email on the same ticket. It is all logged so you can see the ping pong emails. good luck buddy


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please do not give out any personal information on any public forum - headfi or otherwise.
> 
> ...


 
 i got a reply and they immediatley addressed my concern and will send me a cable, it was an IT glitch
  
 i want to thank ifi for being so responsive


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask a question which has been asked maybe hundred times 
  
 what is the best setting to get the warmest sound with good bass , i am just confused now
  
 i am playing flac


----------



## Koolpep

sound eq said:


> can i ask a question which has been asked maybe hundred times
> 
> what is the best setting to get the warmest sound with good bass , i am just confused now
> 
> i am playing flac




That depends what you are driving with the micro?

Cheers
K


----------



## gixxerwimp

sound eq said:


> what is the best setting to get the warmest sound with good bass , i am just confused now
> i am playing flac


 
  
 In my experience, the power/gain settings don't affect overall freq response too much. The XBass only affects very low frequencies as you can see in @ClieOS review.
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/13009

  
 To get a warmer sound, you'll need either a warmer headphone as @Koolpep said, or some EQ before inputting into the micro iDSD, like this one I found for foobar2k. I didn't do an extensive survey, and it's pretty basic, but gets the job done for simple boost/cut and I can't hear too much in the way of artifacts.
  
 http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_xgeq


----------



## Sound Eq

koolpep said:


> That depends what you are driving with the micro?
> 
> Cheers
> K


 
 i am driving the audeze lcd2
  
 i have the following set
  
 andorid phone---- ifi dsd micro--- rca into alo rx mk3B----- audeze balanced
  
 kindly what filters or setting give out the warmest sound


----------



## Koolpep

sound eq said:


> i am driving the audeze lcd2
> 
> i have the following set
> 
> ...


 

 Since you are using the micro only as a DAC there is actually only three switches to change the sound: Xbass, 3D and the Filter switch. 
  
 I would just try them. I can check tonight - I have an LCD2  as well. But I somehow doubt there will be a large difference.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Sound Eq

koolpep said:


> Since you are using the micro only as a DAC there is actually only three switches to change the sound: Xbass, 3D and the Filter switch.
> 
> I would just try them. I can check tonight - I have an LCD2  as well. But I somehow doubt there will be a large difference.
> 
> ...


 
 i do not get it what u mean by using it only as a dac
  
 by the way somehow i prefer to use it in preamp mode even when i amp it with the alo mk3 so i can still use the bass and treble swtiiches
  
 so i am still wondering what filters and settings produce the best warm sound


----------



## Koolpep

sound eq said:


> i do not get it what u mean by using it only as a dac
> 
> by the way somehow i prefer to use it in preamp mode even when i amp it with the alo mk3 so i can still use the bass and treble swtiiches
> 
> so i am still wondering what filters and settings produce the best warm sound


 

 You are using the micro either as pre-amp or as dac (line out) and the Alo is amping. So either you double-amp when using the micro as pre-amp or you are using it as DAC only (line out).
  
 There is no treble switch on the micro. The left switch is XBass and the right one is 3D - but if you don't have a headphone connected these two will optimize their output for speakers and not for headphones. 
 From the manual:
*7. 3D HolographicSound® *
 ● ON OFF
 recreates a holographic sound field like listening to a pair of
 speakers.
 This is activated when a 6.3mm headphone has
 been inserted.
 puts the bass frequencies back outside of the speakers, in-line with
 the treble and mid-range.
 This is activated when no 6.3mm headphone plug
 has been inserted.
_Tip: These two analogue signal processing systems (3D HolographicSound® for Headphones and 3D HolographicSound® for Speakers) are distinctly different and designed for their respective types of audio output. _



  
  
 If you are wondering what filters and settings produce the best warm sound, why don't you just try them out? I mean, you have 3 filter settings, that's pretty easy to try. You seem to have everything you need. I cannot try your specific setup as I don't have a Alo amp. Why are you using the Alo and not the micro single ended? What's the point of using the Alo amp?
  
 I am pretty puzzled why you are asking us if instead of just trying it yourself, especially in a set up where you also use an additional amp, even though the micro has a pretty good one build in....
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Sound Eq

koolpep said:


> You are using the micro either as pre-amp or as dac (line out) and the Alo is amping. So either you double-amp when using the micro as pre-amp or you are using it as DAC only (line out).
> 
> There is no treble switch on the micro. The left switch is XBass and the right one is 3D - but if you don't have a headphone connected these two will optimize their output for speakers and not for headphones.
> From the manual:
> ...


 
 well i barely hear any difference thats why i ask if those filters have an effect after all or not


----------



## Koolpep

sound eq said:


> well i barely hear any difference thats why i ask if those filters have an effect after all or not


 

 Ok,
  
 If you are listening to DSD then @john57  has this explanation:
 Extreme/Extended/Standard are the analog DSD filters that tells the Micro what frequency  to start the filtering out the High frequency noise that is part of all DSD files. The standard DSD filter will start sooner at a lower frequency which might be good for 64DSD files. If you have 128 or higher DSD files you can try the extended or Extreme, less sharp curve, if you can hear a difference. If you can not hear a difference it may be safer just to leave it at standard for DSD files so that less high frequency noise will slip thru. That is my simple explanation.  
  
 If you are using normal PCM files then this is what you shall use:
_Tip: For PCM we recommend “Bit-Perfect” for listening and “Standard” for measurements. For DSD, select Extreme/Extended/Standard to find the one that sounds best for listening and “Standard Range” for measurements. _



  
 This assumes for PCM Bit-Perfect is warmest, Standard is brightest. But to be honest the difference with my music and my headphones is VERY minimal I would never be able to pick it out in a blind test.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> well i barely hear any difference thats why i ask if those filters have an effect after all or not


 
  
 I think the more practical way of thinking about this is - if you can barely tell the difference between filters and setting, do they really matter to you as the listener?
  
 You really don't need us to tell you what you have listened or what you should have listened.


----------



## Sound Eq

koolpep said:


> Ok,
> 
> If you are listening to DSD then @john57  has this explanation:
> Extreme/Extended/Standard are the analog DSD filters that tells the Micro what frequency  to start the filtering out the High frequency noise that is part of all DSD files. The standard DSD filter will start sooner at a lower frequency which might be good for 64DSD files. If you have 128 or higher DSD files you can try the extended or Extreme, less sharp curve, if you can hear a difference. If you can not hear a difference it may be safer just to leave it at standard for DSD files so that less high frequency noise will slip thru. That is my simple explanation.
> ...


 
 thanks for this info
  
 now how about regular flac files that are 192/24 do the rules above apply, and which one


----------



## Koolpep

sound eq said:


> thanks for this info
> 
> now how about regular flac files that are 192/24 do the rules above apply, and which one


 

 FLAC = PCM


----------



## rickyleelee

How warm do you need your setup? The lcd2 pre-fasor is prettywarm/dark sounding. very warm for me. and like KP said, just try for yourself. It only got 3 filters, bro.

hard to find an even warmer headphone than the lcd2. how warm do you need your sound?


----------



## rickyleelee

I wouldn't expect nigte and day differences between the filters. not sure what you are expecting. but don't expect big my man


----------



## goodyfresh

rickyleelee said:


> I wouldn't expect nigte and day differences between the filters. not sure what you are expecting. but don't expect big my man


 

 Well I mean isn't it true that the only real audible difference between the filters will be greater or lesser levels of roll-off in the treble?  And between the Standard and Minimum-Phase filters, the roll-off difference is only in the very top octave. . .


----------



## john57

goodyfresh said:


> Well I mean isn't it true that the only real audible difference between the filters will be greater or lesser levels of roll-off in the treble?  And between the Standard and Minimum-Phase filters, the roll-off difference is only in the very top octave. . .


 
  No, the filters can add artifacts that maybe be audible in certain cases. Some of the filter settings can effect sharpness, soundstage and bass quality. If filters are perfect there would not be a need to have a user choice. IFI recommend the bit-perfect filter setting for PCM and standard for DSD. Not everyone agrees and you have a choice. So the roll-off of the high treble is just one factor in many. Bit-perfect means non-oversampling within the iDSD unit for PCM which in turn is like no filter but has a more of a roll-off in the very high frequencies.


----------



## gixxerwimp

gixxerwimp said:


> Spoiler: Backstory
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 iFi said they "reflashed" my original unit and everything was fine. But I had tried updating the FW v4.08 to the new v4.10. No change in behaviour. Not sure if their reflash is the same as a firmware update, or something more low level.


----------



## LorandCz

Yes, the sound is just as you described it. Everything was so clear and crisp that I couldn't believe my ears. I wish I could've tried the Nano before the Micro to get a comparison but lo! my finances are limited.
  
 I would highly recommend everybody to at least try it. You will not want to stop it afterwards, though.
  
 I tried them with the still unreleased Meze 99 Classics at IFA 2015. Had to wait for them to get burned in though. But you could really feel the difference, that's how sensitive the iDSD is.


----------



## Sound Eq

i am just wondering which filter with pcm gives the warmest sound, well i like the sound as warm as i can get 

by all means i like the ifi, and if they release a 2nd version with a much better bass boost i am all in, as their bass boost is barely even noticeable 

many of us on this site like bass so we are audiophile bassheads and the audeze to shine needs a good bass booster for basshead like me, and yes a basshead can still like an audeze can, 

if you are an audiophile who does not like basshead level bass please do not criticize the ones who do like alot of bass

now back to the filter question why is it there so much confusion about which filter with pcm gives tahe warmest setting????

well and to others who told me to try it myself, well dont you think i tried hundreds of times, but to me honestly i do not hear any difference whatsoever, so i am asking just to get the theory of things


----------



## technobear

sound eq said:


> i am just wondering which filter with pcm gives the warmest sound, well i like the sound as warm as i can get
> 
> by all means i like the ifi, and if they release a 2nd version with a much better bass boost i am all in, as their bass boost is barely even noticeable
> 
> ...




Sounds like you need to add an iCAN as this has two levels of bass boost, the higher level being much stronger than that in the iDSD.

As to the warmest filter, that would be Bit-Perfect. This is also the most natural sounding, most analogue sounding filter. It takes more than a quick listen to appreciate the difference.

But if you do like a lot of bass, why did you buy the Audeze? A TH-600 or TH-900 would have been a better choice.


----------



## rickyleelee

brother, try the setting you like best. no need to ask others for the warmest setting. for you, you may wish to try a really warm tube amp (not the itube)


----------



## rickyleelee

lcd2 quite bassy in my book!


----------



## Maxpain

I keep experimenting with the settings in my micro and I want to hear the differences between filters on the spot. I have read somewherere that it is recomended to turn off the micro before changing the filter from bit perfect to standard e.g. Is this true or I can move the switch on the fly without power off the micro?
  
 Any help would be much apreciated cheers


----------



## ClieOS

maxpain said:


> I keep experimenting with the settings in my micro and I want to hear the differences between filters on the spot. I have read somewherere that* it is recomended to turn off the micro before changing the filter from bit perfect to standard *e.g. Is this true or I can move the switch on the fly without power off the micro?
> 
> Any help would be much apreciated cheers


 
  
 Never recall iFi ever made such recommendation and I switch filter without powering down all the time.


----------



## Maxpain

I have read it somewhere I am not sure if it was ifi that recomended it. Either way I am asking it because I am not sure...thank you for your help, it was a pain to allways turn off the micro to change to filter hehe


----------



## ptolemy2k6

Hi guys
  
 I was wondering if someone had a recommendation for a USB cable (besides one it comes with)? Something in the 3ft rnage. Ill be using micro idsd in a desktop/laptop environment + headphones. Thank you


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> Never recall iFi ever made such recommendation and I switch filter without powering down all the time.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct and correct.
  
 If there was any issue, we would have stated it in the instruction card.
  
 So do refer to that as it isnt trying to be cover every base, just the most important ones.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

ptolemy2k6 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I was wondering if someone had a recommendation for a USB cable (besides one it comes with)? Something in the 3ft rnage. Ill be using micro idsd in a desktop/laptop environment + headphones. Thank you


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Passive USB cable, we dont recommend over 2m.
  
 For 3m, it is a safer bet to use an active or powered USB cable. eg micro iUSB3.0 in between. There are other options so ours is not the only one.
  
 Thanks


----------



## ptolemy2k6

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Passive USB cable, we dont recommend over 2m.
> 
> ...


 
 thank you
  
 I was only looking for 3ft cable. My main question was if normal gold plated usb cable is enough (or one that comes with micro idsd) or do I need to look for something specific.


----------



## technobear

ptolemy2k6 said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...




I've had good results with Kimber USB. I have three of them in 0.5m, 1.0m and 5.0m. (I have had no issues using the 5m cable with my previous Audiolab 8200CDQ or with the micro iDSD).

However, people on Head-Fi have lately been recommending Supra USB which is quite a bit cheaper than Kimber so maybe give that a go.

http://www.futureshop.co.uk/usb-dac-cables-supra-usb-cables-c-406_622.html?osCsid=f1kt7g2j497pqt2m5r02ac8ck3


----------



## coolmingli

I just bought a Micro iDSD from the forum, I installed the driver and updated the firmware 5.0b, I connected it to my Windows 10 PC with stock cable, and change the playback device to IFI, reboot the computer and turn off the IFI than turn back on, however I got no sound from the headphone output, totally silent, the toslink digital port works fine, I connect the Micro to my Andriod phone with OTG adapter, also no sound, is my unit defective?


----------



## Jodlar

Everytime I turn on or turn off my iDSD, I hear a loud boom for a second in my speakers (Audioengine A5 + SVS PB-1000 sub).
 Why is that so and how can I fix that?


----------



## HotIce

I am afraid you can't. Some amps (E12 and C5, just to name two) have a micro relay on the output, to delay HP wiring after amp circuit stabilized.
Other achieve the same with proper bootstrap circuitry.
I hear the 'bump' as well, in my HPs, but it's nothing I care much, at the level it is.


----------



## ClieOS

coolmingli said:


> I just bought a Micro iDSD from the forum, I installed the driver and updated the firmware 5.0b, I connected it to my Windows 10 PC with stock cable, and change the playback device to IFI, reboot the computer and turn off the IFI than turn back on, however I got no sound from the headphone output, totally silent, the toslink digital port works fine, I connect the Micro to my Andriod phone with OTG adapter, also no sound, is my unit defective?


 
  
 Just in case, be sure you are not plugging into the SmartPower port. Your Andorid might not work with micro iDSD out of the box, so I won't rule it out just yet. Download the free version of USB Audio Player Pro and try again. Might also want to try the micro iDSD on another PC as well.
  


jodlar said:


> Everytime I turn on or turn off my iDSD, I hear a loud boom for a second in my speakers (Audioengine A5 + SVS PB-1000 sub).
> Why is that so and how can I fix that?


 
 When an amp powers up, it takes a few micro seconds to stabilize. What you are hearing is the small DC offset caused by the instability. There is no real fix, but a good practice is to power the iDSD first before you power up your speaker.


----------



## mannkind246

leafs said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I notice you use Burson Conductor. I wonder have you tried using iDSD as DAC for Conductor and what is your opinion. I'm using Soloist and deciding iDSD to replace my ODAC. I also waiting for the review of iDAC2 before making further decision.
> 
> Thanks in advance. Cheers



What is the sound signature different between idsd micro vs ODAC?


----------



## kurb1980

Having owned the ODAC few 3-4 years ago I remember the sound being really cold, not forgiving, and shrill at times.  The ODAC is not even in the same league as the Micro its leaps and bounds better in SQ, clarity, timbre, airiness, and soundstage.   The Micro is kind of a swiss army knife of DAC's it can be used as NOS or DSD all depending on what you prefer.  I like to use the Micro in DSD to output DSD256 which is the 'sweet' spot of this DAC and achieves the best spec's in this mode.


----------



## goodyfresh

kurb1980 said:


> Having owned the ODAC few 3-4 years ago I remember the sound being really cold, not forgiving, and shrill at times.  The ODAC is not even in the same league as the Micro its leaps and bounds better in SQ, clarity, timbre, airiness, and soundstage.   The Micro is kind of a swiss army knife of DAC's it can be used as NOS or DSD all depending on what you prefer.  I like to use the Micro in DSD to output DSD256 which is the 'sweet' spot of this DAC and achieves the best spec's in this mode.


 

 Good to know!  I was considering whether to save some money by just getting the ODAC+O2 combo rather than the iDSD Micro, since I don't really need all the many features of the latter.  But if the sound would really be that much of a step-up, then screw it I want the iDSD, haha


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

/


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

h1f1add1cted said:


> I agree only one small cable is needed to full happiness
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I wanna connect a ifi Audio nano to a Note 4..which cable??


----------



## h1f1add1cted

As already mentioned in your PM, for all others, that is an generic $ 5 USB OTG micro USB cable (90° angled). You find this cable on amazon.com or other web shops. Examples: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/178-1413964-6445324?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=USB+OTG+micro+USB+cable+90%C2%B0 
  
 Works perfect since 1 year.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

h1f1add1cted said:


> As already mentioned in your PM, for all others, that is an generic $ 5 USB OTG micro USB cable (90° angled). You find this cable on amazon.com or other web shops. Examples: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/178-1413964-6445324?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=USB+OTG+micro+USB+cable+90%C2%B0
> 
> Works perfect since 1 year.


 
  
  
 http://www.ainex.jp/products/usb-136.htm
  
  
 it says android  (ainex usb-136)
  
 **crosses fingers**


----------



## diamondears

sound eq said:


> i am just wondering which filter with pcm gives the warmest sound, well i like the sound as warm as i can get
> 
> by all means i like the ifi, and if they release a 2nd version with a much better bass boost i am all in, as their bass boost is barely even noticeable
> 
> ...



Definitely Bit-Perfect. Try iFi micro iDSD>>>FiiO E12 (not the E12A, will make mids too forward on LCD-2 and bass boost too little for you I think). Perfect for me with the LCD-2 when I had it, and with my current HPs. If desktop, try iFi micro iDSD>>>iFi micro iCAN as ClieOS said. Very rich, warm, sweet, and enough quality and quantity bass boost. 

IME, if you're playing music files that are clean and with sub-bass, you won't hear the bit of extra noise due to NOS, but you'll notice warmer sound (more sub-bass, and accurate too). If you're playing "dirty" music files with no-sub-bass, Minimum Phase would be warmer due to bass "distortion" and noise removal.


----------



## ptolemy2k6

My friend brought over his custom $150 usb cable and I am using decent $35 cable vs stock blue cable (using others with provided adapter).
  
 We tried about 10 different recordings and i can't really tell the difference between the 3. Sometimes some have little pops vs other cable they don't but then pops return. As if something else is the issue other than cable.
  
 I know any mention how a nicer cable offers clear differences and I want to hear it, so my request is this: does someone have any material I can listen to clearly hear the difference between a $10, $35 and a $150 cable?
  
 Thank you


----------



## goodyfresh

ptolemy2k6 said:


> My friend brought over his custom $150 usb cable and I am using decent $35 cable vs stock blue cable (using others with provided adapter).
> 
> We tried about 10 different recordings and i can't really tell the difference between the 3. Sometimes some have little pops vs other cable they don't but then pops return. As if something else is the issue other than cable.
> 
> ...


 

 That's because there isn't any real difference except that due to the placebo-effect/expectation-bias in people's minds.  As long as the cheapest of the cables isn't an absolutely actually CRAPPY one, it won't actually have a difference in sound.  Audio and USB cables do not introduce anything more than about 0.01% THD+N and 0.01% IMD into an audio signal, both of which are levels of distortion well below actually AUDIBLE levels.

 For example, with some headphones I've heard a difference when switching toa  better cable, but only because teh stock-cable is absolute crap.  A good example of such a headphone would be the PSB M4U 1.  And teh same applies to any other type of cable carrying audio info, including a USB cable.

 Now, when you start talking about REALLY LONG cables, there acn be some major differences.  Due to the fact that in long cables (like, several meters or longer) there can be significant signal-degradation if the cable is not made very, very well.  But in cables of normal length (1.2 meters or less for audio 3.5 or 6.5mm connection cables, typically two feet or less for USB cables) there won't be a true difference audible to the human ear between some decent 50 dollar cable, and some super-fancy-schmancy 500 or 5000 dollar cables.


----------



## chawya22

goodyfresh said:


> That's because there isn't any real difference except that due to the placebo-effect/expectation-bias in people's minds.  As long as the cheapest of the cables isn't an absolutely actually CRAPPY one, it won't actually have a difference in sound.  Audio and USB cables do not introduce anything more than about 0.01% THD+N and 0.01% IMD into an audio signal, both of which are levels of distortion well below actually AUDIBLE levels.
> 
> For example, with some headphones I've heard a difference when switching toa  better cable, but only because teh stock-cable is absolute crap.  A good example of such a headphone would be the PSB M4U 1.  And teh same applies to any other type of cable carrying audio info, including a USB cable.
> 
> Now, when you start talking about REALLY LONG cables, there acn be some major differences.  Due to the fact that in long cables (like, several meters or longer) there can be significant signal-degradation if the cable is not made very, very well.  But in cables of normal length (1.2 meters or less for audio 3.5 or 6.5mm connection cables, typically two feet or less for USB cables) there won't be a true difference audible to the human ear between some decent 50 dollar cable, and some super-fancy-schmancy 500 or 5000 dollar cables.


 

 I think Schiit Audio is spot on with their tongue-in-cheek description of their PYST CABLES.


----------



## cute

Why did you do the firmware upgrade before testing the iDSD on your Windows 10 computer to make sure it works?  I have tried googling the firmware upgrade, and each link shows "page cannot be displayed".  I can't even get to the ifi-audio.com web page.
  
 Anyone having trouble with Windows 10 or other version, and the firmware upgrade to 5.0b?
  
 Thanks


----------



## leafs

mannkind246 said:


> What is the sound signature different between idsd micro vs ODAC?


 

 Sorry there, I can't comment because I didn't get idsd micro in the end. I save up and got Gungnir multibit.


----------



## goodyfresh

chawya22 said:


> I think Schiit Audio is spot on with their tongue-in-cheek description of their PYST CABLES.


 

 LMAO I never saw that before but it's hilarious, wow


----------



## h1f1add1cted

goodyfresh said:


> LMAO I never saw that before but it's hilarious, wow


 

 They only speak the truth that's all. Cables doesn't matter if not get the worst crappy cable ever (build quality, isolation, shielding, current USB specifications etc.), but it never affected the SQ so hard as a bunch of people always claiming. It's pure imagination and with blind testing cables, none of this "guys" would ever hear a difference.


----------



## goodyfresh

h1f1add1cted said:


> They only speak the truth that's all. Cables doesn't matter if not get the worst crappy cable ever (build quality, isolation, shielding, current USB specifications etc.), but it never affected the SQ so hard as a bunch of people always claiming. It's pure imagination and with blind testing cables, none of this "guys" would ever hear a difference.


 

 I already know they speak the truth, why you think I find the page so funny?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Plenty of people won't find it funny though.  You know the ones. . .the people who already wasted money buying 5000 dollar fancy-schmancy audio cables, bwahahahaha.


----------



## aCuria

Been having an issue with my iFi iDSD's sound cutting off randomly, usually when playing games.
  
 They have a really irritating support system that requires me to login to an account on their webpage to reply to messages (and the said system goes down very often, like now). Whats wrong with the usual email I wonder.


----------



## technobear

acuria said:


> Been having an issue with my iFi iDSD's sound cutting off randomly, usually when playing games.




Are you using the blue USB cable? These don't make the best of contacts at the iDSD end. If you are disturbing the cable this can cause the link to go down.

I solved it by wrapping tape around the plug to make it fit more securely into the iDSD.


----------



## Koolpep

acuria said:


> Been having an issue with my iFi iDSD's sound cutting off randomly, usually when playing games.
> 
> They have a really irritating support system that requires me to login to an account on their webpage to reply to messages (and the said system goes down very often, like now). Whats wrong with the usual email I wonder.


 
 http://blog.capterra.com/6-reasons-why-ticket-tracking-software-is-better-than-email/


----------



## iFi audio

acuria said:


> They have a really irritating support system that requires me to login to an account on their webpage to reply to messages (and the said system goes down very often, like now). Whats wrong with the usual email I wonder.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Just of note, at the moment, the servers are moving over so the Support Ticket System is down. We apologise for the inconvenice but we are moving to a better, faster server. But once a customer has registered and opened a ticket, they just need to click on the bottom of the email to reply.This system 'logs' all replies so there is a tracking of conversations backwards and forwards and pdfs are ready to be sent out. It really does make for an easier life for all involved.
  
 Cheers


----------



## HotIce

acuria said:


> Been having an issue with my iFi iDSD's sound cutting off randomly, usually when playing games.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
Are you sure its not an OS problem (scheduler induced latency and failure of process to fill up buffers)?
I never had this issue with mine, and I use it every day.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

wrong thread..


----------



## aCuria

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just of note, at the moment, the servers are moving over so the Support Ticket System is down. We apologise for the inconvenice but we are moving to a better, faster server. But once a customer has registered and opened a ticket, they just need to click on the bottom of the email to reply.This system 'logs' all replies so there is a tracking of conversations backwards and forwards and pdfs are ready to be sent out. It really does make for an easier life for all involved.
> 
> Cheers


 
 If you system has 100% uptime maybe you could make an argument for it. Unfortunately, since the system is down, email is infinitely better. At least have a fall back system if the ticket system doesnt work!


----------



## ptolemy2k6

I havr a q:
  
 I am trying to pair iusb power with idsd to play on pc.
  
 I am correct to assume that the right usb port (power and sound) connects to idsd and back port (type b on iusb goes to computer usb?)
  
 thank you


----------



## technobear

ptolemy2k6 said:


> I havr a q:
> 
> I am trying to pair iusb power with idsd to play on pc.
> 
> ...




Yes. How else could it possibly be?


----------



## ptolemy2k6

technobear said:


> Yes. How else could it possibly be?


 
  
  
 ya, that's what I thought, except when I connect it, foobar2000 can't play it for some reason...  as if I have my wiring incorrect
 idsd works well on its own.


----------



## technobear

ptolemy2k6 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. How else could it possibly be?
> ...




I never had that problem with the iUSB Power and the iDSD. Try connecting the computer after you have powered up the iUSB Power and the iDSD. Also, test the cable that is connected to the computer to make sure it is working. Check foobar preferences to make sure the iDSD is still the selected device.


----------



## ptolemy2k6

technobear said:


> I never had that problem with the iUSB Power and the iDSD. Try connecting the computer after you have powered up the iUSB Power and the iDSD. Also, test the cable that is connected to the computer to make sure it is working. Check foobar preferences to make sure the iDSD is still the selected device.


 
 I will
  
 One thing I noticed is when I plugin idsd direct into usb, i hear new device prompt and it works20-30 seconds later. When I do same via iusb I hear no device prompt. I tested the cables and they work as I used adapter on idsd and connected male a to male b into computer direct


----------



## ptolemy2k6

Issue solved: the usb power cable (white) doesn't work for some reason: the lights up iusb power led, but not enough juice i guess? I tried 120v wart and works good


----------



## HailToTheKing

acuria said:


> *Been having an issue with my iFi iDSD's sound cutting off randomly, usually when playing games*.
> 
> They have a really irritating support system that requires me to login to an account on their webpage to reply to messages (and the said system goes down very often, like now). Whats wrong with the usual email I wonder.


 
 I am having exactly the same issue. Can someone please suggest a solution it is becoming really annoying


----------



## gr8soundz

hailtotheking said:


> I am having exactly the same issue. Can someone please suggest a solution it is becoming really annoying


 
  
 Try making sure the iFi driver settings are set to Extra Safe and 8192 samples.


----------



## aCuria

ptolemy2k6 said:


> Issue solved: the usb power cable (white) doesn't work for some reason: the lights up iusb power led, but not enough juice i guess? I tried 120v wart and works good


 
 I never used the white one... blue all the way. Problem not solved


----------



## aCuria

hotice said:


> acuria said:
> 
> 
> > Been having an issue with my iFi iDSD's sound cutting off randomly, usually when playing games.
> ...


 
 How can I possibly know this? can you suggest a profiling tool or explain how to code something that checks against this? I diddnt have a problem for 6 months either.


----------



## iFi audio

acuria said:


> How can I possibly know this? can you suggest a profiling tool or explain how to code something that checks against this? I diddnt have a problem for 6 months either.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You can download a trial version of JRMC.
  
 Install. Select > Help. Then > Benchmark.  Run the benchmark tests.
  
  
  
  
  
 Should look something like this.
  
 5.443 seconds
 Score: 3491
 JRMark (version 20.0.131): 3491=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
 Running 'Math' benchmark...
     Single-threaded integer math... 5.429 seconds
     Single-threaded floating point math... 3.589 seconds
     Multi-threaded integer math... 3.283 seconds
     Multi-threaded mixed math... 2.023 seconds
 Score: 1327
 Running 'Image' benchmark...
     Image creation / destruction... 0.525 seconds
     Flood filling... 0.505 seconds
     Direct copying... 0.582 seconds
     Small renders... 1.875 seconds
     Bilinear rendering... 1.996 seconds
     Bicubic rendering... 1.377 seconds
 Score: 3207
 Running 'Database' benchmark...
     Create database... 0.486 seconds
     Populate database... 1.769 seconds
     Save database... 0.264 seconds
     Reload database... 0.078 seconds
     Search database... 1.549 seconds
     Sort database... 1.890 seconds
     Group database... 1.024 seconds
 Score: 3045
  
  
 A 'free' diagnostic for playing computer audio on a PC.
  
 Feel free to pm us and we can run through your system - as usual, just in case, dont put out any personal information in this thread.
  
 Cheers


----------



## aCuria

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You can download a trial version of JRMC.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Running 'Math' benchmark...
     Single-threaded integer math... 3.897 seconds
     Single-threaded floating point math... 2.593 seconds
     Multi-threaded integer math... 0.820 seconds
     Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.568 seconds
 Score: 2412
 Running 'Image' benchmark...
     Image creation / destruction... 0.451 seconds
     Flood filling... 0.540 seconds
     Direct copying... 0.446 seconds
     Small renders... 1.396 seconds
     Bilinear rendering... 0.960 seconds
     Bicubic rendering... 0.578 seconds
 Score: 5033
 Running 'Database' benchmark...
     Create database... 0.243 seconds
     Populate database... 1.325 seconds
     Save database... 0.350 seconds
     Reload database... 0.062 seconds
     Search database... 1.038 seconds
     Sort database... 1.246 seconds
     Group database... 0.673 seconds
 Score: 4354
 JRMark (version 21.0.6): 3933
  
 OK I ran the benchmark, what does it mean? The results seem similar to yours


----------



## ClieOS

ptolemy2k6 said:


> Issue solved: the usb power cable (white) doesn't work for some reason: the lights up iusb power led, but not enough juice i guess? I tried 120v wart and works good


 
  
 You misunderstand what that white cable (USB-A to barrel) is for. It is for using iUSB to power up Logitech's Squeezebox, not for using your PC's USB port to power up the iUSB. Also, the whole point of iUSB is so that you can use the included ULN adapter (or iPower if you have the latest version) for its cleaner power. Plus, white cable only taps into USB 5V supply while ULN / iPower is 9V, hence why you can't power up the iUSB properly.


----------



## HailToTheKing

gr8soundz said:


> Try making sure the iFi driver settings are set to Extra Safe and 8192 samples.


 
 Unfortunately I have these settings already. Any other thoughts?


----------



## john57

Any audio settings in the game itself?


----------



## gr8soundz

hailtotheking said:


> Unfortunately I have these settings already. Any other thoughts?


 
  
 Lot of questions come to mind but may be easier to help if we can get some more info about specific setup:
  
 Does it happen the same in every game and in all music softwares?
  
 Have you tried it on another computer and usb cable (if possible)?
  
 If your on Windows make sure to disable all windows sound enhancements?
  
 Does the same problem happen in music software if you choose ASIO, DS (Direct Sound), or WASAPI output?
  
 Is the iDSD fully charged and/or is the red gain button set to turbo mode (should be set to normal)?
  
 If you have an optical cable can you use the optical adapter packaged with the iDSD to hook it up to something that way and see if the same thing happens as usb (also make sure you don't have all inputs hooked up at the same time)?
  
 Are you turning the iDSD on first before connecting the usb cable or is the cable first then power on?
  
 Does it work ok if you use it as an amp from the front 3.5mm input?


----------



## HailToTheKing

gr8soundz said:


> Lot of questions come to mind but may be easier to help if we can get some more info about specific setup:
> 
> 1)Does it happen the same in every game and in all music softwares?
> 
> ...


 
 Fist of all thanks for the response.
  
 1) Yes it happens in every game but randomly. Sound stops in the game and I have to exit and re open it. It also happens while streaming from tidal(web plugin). Sound stops , track pauses and I have to reload the page and then its ok. It also happens in foobar. 
 2) I tried the included USB type A female to type B female adapter with a cable of my own . Same thing.
3) Sound enhancements are disabled.
4) I am using foobar with asio . Sometimes sound stops and it pauses. Then when I hit play it throws a playback error . I then hit play again and the track starts from the beginning.
5) The iDSD seems fully charged as it rarely leaves the desktop. Power mode is set to eco. 
6) I have used it though optical cable with my tv and through the 3.5mm input with my ipod. Never had problems that way. Only one input at a time.
7) The usb cable is always connected to my pc and the idsd. After I switch on my pc and fully boot to windows then I switch on the idsd.  
  
 I am running windows 8.1 at the moment. Ifi driver 2.20 and firmware version 4.06.


----------



## gr8soundz

hailtotheking said:


> Fist of all thanks for the response.
> 
> 1) Yes it happens in every game but randomly. Sound stops in the game and I have to exit and re open it. It also happens while streaming from tidal(web plugin). Sound stops , track pauses and I have to reload the page and then its ok. It also happens in foobar.
> 2) I tried the included USB type A female to type B female adapter with a cable of my own . Same thing.
> ...


 
  
 Seems you've done quite a bit of troubleshooting already but, if you feel your iDSD is defective, you will need to confirm that the same thing happens (at least in Foobar with the same settings) when using the latest usb driver and firmware (ver 2.23 and firmware 5.0).
  
 If you're unable to install the latest driver and firmware then you'll definitely need to use another computer. If you can duplicate the issues there, then (imo) I'd recommend sending it back for replacement or warranty fix (whichever applies).
  
 Other then that, kinda hard to fully fault iFi at this point when you're running both older drivers AND older firmware.


----------



## ClieOS

gr8soundz said:


> If you're unable to install the latest driver and firmware then you'll definitely need to use another computer. If you can duplicate the issues there, then (imo) I'd recommend sending it back for replacement or warranty fix (whichever applies).


 
  
 2nd that. It will be a very clear indicator on whether the problem is on your PC or micro iDSD.


----------



## technobear

clieos said:


> gr8soundz said:
> 
> 
> > If you're unable to install the latest driver and firmware then you'll definitely need to use another computer. If you can duplicate the issues there, then (imo) I'd recommend sending it back for replacement or warranty fix (whichever applies).
> ...




My money is still on the cable and specifically on the plug/socket contacts at the iDSD end.

The symptoms described are exactly what I experienced and it was always caused by movement of the cable.


----------



## HailToTheKing

gr8soundz said:


> Seems you've done quite a bit of troubleshooting already but, if you feel your iDSD is defective, you will need to confirm that the same thing happens (at least in Foobar with the same settings) when using the latest usb driver and firmware (ver 2.23 and firmware 5.0).
> 
> If you're unable to install the latest driver and firmware then you'll definitely need to use another computer. If you can duplicate the issues there, then (imo) I'd recommend sending it back for replacement or warranty fix (whichever applies).
> 
> Other then that, kinda hard to fully fault iFi at this point when you're running both older drivers AND older firmware.


 
 Actually I was already running driver 2.23 and went back to 2.20 just in case it was a driver issue. Didnt help . Also I had already done a firmware update from  the previous one to the 4.06. Didnt help either so I stopped there.
  
 Anyway I will install the latest firmware , buy a new cable , reinstall foobar and try to find an another computer to test with. (though that may be difficult) 
  
 Any other suggestions about more things I could do would be very helpful.
  
 Thanks for the responses guys


----------



## HailToTheKing

Guys you will not believe what I just noticed!!
 When I switch off my bathroom light it's when the stops happen! I loaded a game. When I go and switch off my bathroom light I see the micro's light change from green to white and back to green and sound stops! Same happens with tidal and foobar. Just like  I have described it in the previous posts.
  
 I tried other lights in the house but its the bathroom light that makes it happen.
 What the heck?? Bad electric circuit or something?
 Now I have to figure out if it happens only with the switch off of the light and not generally in random times.
  
 Edit: The change of the micro's light from green to white and back to green doesn't happen always. Now that I keep testing it it remains green but the sound still stops


----------



## ClieOS

hailtotheking said:


> Guys you will not believe what I just noticed!!
> When I switch off my bathroom light it's when the stops happen! I loaded a game. When I go and switch off my bathroom light I see the micro's light change from green to white and back to green and sound stops! Same happens with tidal and foobar. Just like  I have described it in the previous posts.
> 
> I tried other lights in the house but its the bathroom light that makes it happen.
> ...


 
  
 That should be a pretty obvious power spike caused by the light, can't imagine it can be good for your PC or any sensitive electronic in the house either. I'll suggest you get the light fix or replaced. Aging fluorescent light can have obvious hum, especially if the ballasts is about to fail. If if it is just a simple incandescent light bulb (which means it is more likely a problem of low power supply rather than power spike caused by fluorescent light's circuitry), you might want to consider getting either an universal power supply (UPS) or automatic voltage regulator (AVR) for your PC.


----------



## chillaxing

sound eq said:


> i am just wondering which filter with pcm gives the warmest sound, well i like the sound as warm as i can get
> 
> by all means i like the ifi, and if they release a 2nd version with a much better bass boost i am all in, as their bass boost is barely even noticeable
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I with you all the way.  now that i'm going into the audiophile realm, I still yearn for that bass.  I came from jvc sz2000 and th600.  If, the lcd-2 had just a tad more bass, it would be the perfect set for me.
  
 well thats what lead me to this thread. I wanted a powerful amp with a bass boost.  
  
 So how is the lcd-2 matched up with the micro?  I'm using a lyr2 with my lcd's, and to me the perfect listening volume is between 11 and 2 o'clock, depending on how loud the recording was recorded at.  At that level i feel it has the best dynamics, synergy, and loudness.  I know you guys say it gets loud with the micro,  but does it have the fullness to the sound (mainly bass, whats affected most when under powered)  when a set of cans is amped properly?


----------



## Maxpain

I have purchased the micro for a month now and I have been really happy with its performance that is getting better every day with every listening! I am in the market to puchase an amplifier to add to the situation and I am considering the i can wich is class a amp and I believe it will be a good match with the micro. I am also thinking about a nice tube amp in the price range of i can wich is about 350 euros. I could use an insight...would I hear a great difference between the class A amp of the ican and a tube amp at this price range? Do you have any suggestions?


----------



## JuleZ3C

I find the Project Ember to be quite nice at this pricepoint.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/675850/project-ember-review


----------



## chillaxing

I have a question, why are people stacking the idsd with the ican, when the idsd has uber amount of power?


----------



## gr8soundz

chillaxing said:


> I have a question, why are people stacking the idsd with the ican, when the idsd has uber amount of power?


 
  
 Power output isn't the only important spec for an amp. Even within the Micro series, the iCan amp outperformed the iDSD in sound quality. Not night and day, but improvement nonetheless.
  
 Plus, this time with the Pro series, iFi is removing the xbass and 3d from the Micro and the only the iCan has balanced headphone outs (unfortunately).

 If all you need is the extra power from the dac, go for the iDSD.


----------



## technobear

chillaxing said:


> I have a question, why are people stacking the idsd with the ican, when the idsd has uber amount of power?




The iCAN runs in pure class A, has enough power for all but the hungriest headphones, has two levels of XBASS, crossfeed, a more out there 3D than the iDSD and sounds fantastic.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> The iCAN runs in pure class A, has enough power for all but the hungriest headphones, has two levels of XBASS, crossfeed, a more out there 3D than the iDSD and sounds fantastic.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Pretty succinct. We would only add that there are many good Class A headphone amplifiers on the market that sound great. But what makes the micro iCAN a little above and beyond in a sea of headphone amps is the TubeState*®* circuit which AMR developed for the micro iCAN. Something that gives it the 'Factor X.' The micro iCAN uses a discrete circuit that deliberately and nicely models the way tubes amplify audio. We call it TubeState*®.*
  
 From our own R&D testing, we can assure you that the Tubestate*®* circuitry dishes out quite a large dollop of sonic improvement and is the core ngredient behind its sonics, more so than the pure Class A. This is what you are getting that gives the iFi micro iCAN that extra ‘Factor X’ – over and above other mains powered Class A headphone amplifiers. So yes, the iCAN is better than the micro iDSD on the headphones but it is also nicer sounding than many other desktop headphone amplifiers too, because it is deliberately made to sound like a good tube headphone amplifier. And so, mains power is needed for TubeState*®* so not possible on battery/USB power at this juncture.
  
 But all is not lost, while the micro iDSD has neither the battery current nor the circuit board space to include the ‘Tubestate*®*’ circuit, in its place there is a (Burr Brown ‘SoundPlus*®*’) Op-Amp, one of the best you can get and close in character to the Tubestate*®* circuit, but just not quite as warm, ‘tubey’ sounding.
  
 Other than this change from Tubestate*®* discrete pre-stage to Soundplus*®* Op-Amp and extra Class A current in the output stage, the Headphone Amplifier of the micro iCAN  and of the micro iDSD are essentially identical in circuit design and structure, when the iDSD micro is set to 'normal.'
  
 Ultimate, TubeState does not match real tubes but it just gets darn close.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## proton56

Hi,
  
  
 I would like to use a micro iDSD with a SAMSUNG S4 and QOBUZ, can you tell me if it's compatible ?
 I it's not compatible I could use a LG G3.
  
  
 Thanks you
  
 Proton


----------



## goodyfresh

gr8soundz said:


> Power output isn't the only important spec for an amp. Even within the Micro series, the iCan amp outperformed the iDSD in sound quality. Not night and day, but improvement nonetheless.
> 
> Plus, this time with the Pro series, iFi is removing the xbass and 3d from the Micro and the only the iCan has balanced headphone outs (unfortunately).
> 
> If all you need is the extra power from the dac, go for the iDSD.


 

 So the iCan does sound noticably better than the iDSD?  In terms of power, does it have enough to drive headphones like, say, the Mr. Speakers Alpha Primes to their full potential?  How about something like the HD650?


----------



## Faber65

The SQ is very subjective and I cannot comment the difference between the iDSD and the iCan, but I can assure you that the combo iCan-HD650 works very well. For sure the iCan has enough power reserve to drive the Senn's with a certain degree of authority.


----------



## gr8soundz

goodyfresh said:


> So the iCan does sound noticably better than the iDSD?  In terms of power, does it have enough to drive headphones like, say, the Mr. Speakers Alpha Primes to their full potential?  How about something like the HD650?


 
  
 Can't say for sure as I think the iCan doesn't put out quite as much power as the iDSD (whose battery gives it more juice when needed).
  
 I have the iDSD Micro but not the iCan. Only found out about the difference when I (and others) asked why bother building an iFi stack since the iDSD appeared to have everything. Many others (check much earlier in this thread) swore by the iCan and and have the stack to prove it.
  
 Man, I really wish iFi had found a way to put all this tech into one box.........


----------



## goodyfresh

faber65 said:


> The SQ is very subjective and I cannot comment the difference between the iDSD and the iCan, but I can assure you that the combo iCan-HD650 works very well. For sure the iCan has enough power reserve to drive the Senn's with a certain degree of authority.


 

 Sweet!  Around what setting do you have to put the volume pot to in order to get a truly loud, but not painful, volume level from the HD650?
  
 Edit:  Oh and, with which gain-setting?


gr8soundz said:


> Can't say for sure as I think the iCan doesn't put out quite as much power as the iDSD (whose battery gives it more juice when needed).
> 
> I have the iDSD Micro but not the iCan. Only found out about the difference when I (and others) asked why bother building an iFi stack since the iDSD appeared to have everything. Many others (check much earlier in this thread) swore by the iCan and and have the stack to prove it.
> 
> *Man, I really wish iFi had found a way to put all this tech into one box.........*


 
 I know right?  But I guess they didn't want to make things bigger, they seem to take pride in being able to fit their devices into a very small form-factor.  It is pretty damn impressive, to be honest.


----------



## gr8soundz

goodyfresh said:


> Sweet!  Around what setting do you have to put the volume pot to in order to get a truly loud, but not painful, volume level from the HD650?
> 
> Edit:  Oh and, with which gain-setting?
> I know right?  But I guess they didn't want to make things bigger, they seem to take pride in being able to fit their devices into a very small form-factor.  It is pretty damn impressive, to be honest.


 
  
 I wouldn't care if was as big as the Retro 50. Makes little difference unless they're trying to make the Pro series "transportable" (only the Micro and Nano stuff can work as portables).
  
 Speaking again of the Retro, that's twice (this year) iFi missed an opportunity to put EVERYTHING together (dac, balanced in and out, hybrid tubes, bluetooth, etc.). I still support them and the great stuff they make though.
  
 Looking forward to the day they make a true, end-game, all-in-one device (i.e: no stack, just one big-ass tabletop box that needs nothing but a power cord and maybe a headphone cable).


----------



## Faber65

gr8soundz said:


> I wouldn't care if was as big as the Retro 50. Makes little difference unless they're trying to make the Pro series "transportable" (only the Micro and Nano stuff can work as portables).





goodyfresh said:


> Sweet!  Around what setting do you have to put the volume pot to in order to get a truly loud, but not painful, volume level from the HD650?
> 
> Edit:  Oh and, with which gain-setting?
> I know right?  But I guess they didn't want to make things bigger, they seem to take pride in being able to fit their devices into a very small form-factor.  It is pretty damn impressive, to be honest.




Never exceeded pot at 3 o'clock at gain 0.
For normal recording levels 1-2 o'clock is fine.


----------



## Maxpain

Does anyone use the micro with an amp of the little dot series? I think of getting a tube amp and use the micro only as a dac, I could use some advice on that...would the tube amp take away some of the detail and clean sound of the micro? I have never had any experience of tube sound.


----------



## technobear

maxpain said:


> Does anyone use the micro with an amp of the little dot series? I think of getting a tube amp and use the micro only as a dac, I could use some advice on that...would the tube amp take away some of the detail and clean sound of the micro? I have never had any experience of tube sound.




Allow me to recommend this posting: 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4650#post_11978878


----------



## Maxpain

Thank you for replying, I am also considering the ican because of its reputation and it will defenately be a good match for the micro. I never had experience with tubes and I allways had the bug of getting to know why so many people praise the tube sound. So ican is allways on the list and I am searching for more options to make the most of it.
  
 But in the end the micro alone is an extremely quality product that keeps me hooked to my music everyday of the week


----------



## kevinq

A question for iFi (or anyone else that might know)...
 
Just got my ifi Micro iDSD yesterday, and am thoroughly enjoying it. One thing I can't figure out, though...
 
How can I use the optical input while the iDSD is connected to a USB charger brick?
 
When the iDSD is connected to my computer (Macbook Pro) via a USB cable, I'm able to use the iDSD's optical input just fine. As long as there's no USB audio signal playing from the computer into the iDSD, the iDSD is able to recognize that there's no USB signal, and it automatically switches to the optical signal, if there is one. This is great. No need to unplug the USB cable from the computer when I want to use the optical input.
 
However, if I've got the iDSD connected, via a USB cable, to a USB charger brick (iPad charger), the iDSD seems to think there's a constant USB signal coming in, or something like that, because I can't get the iDSD to "let go" of the USB port, and let me use the optical input. As long as the USB charger brick is connected, the iDSD's LED glows a constant orange (yellow?), which tells me, I believe, that the IDSD thinks it's receiving a USB audio signal, when there really is none.
 
Basically, I want to leave the USB charger connected all the time, and still be able to use the optical input. (I'd like to use the iDSD's optical input 100% of the time, as it's fed by the optical output of an Airport Express, which receives WiFi signals from all my Apple devices, which is very convenient.) Is there a trick to doing this? Or, do I really have to unplug the charger every time I want to listen to music (via the optical input)?
 
Any suggestions, anyone?
 
By the way, I did re-flash the firmware this morning with version 5.00 Vanilla. (Thank you, iFi, for the Mac-based updater!) Prior to that, System Report showed me that I was already running version 5.00, but I re-flashed it anyway, in case my unit was actually running version 5.00b or something.


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> But all is not lost, while the micro iDSD has neither the battery current nor the circuit board space to include the ‘Tubestate*®*’ circuit, in its place there is a (Burr Brown ‘SoundPlus*®*’) Op-Amp, one of the best you can get and close in character to the Tubestate*®* circuit, but just not quite as warm, ‘tubey’ sounding.



 
Thanks God, in name of all the ones which just wants the sound which is actually recorded in the audio tracks, to be reproduced.
And not a even-harmonic-distorted, though pleasing to some, version of it.


----------



## The Walrus

hotice said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## earfonia

ifi audio said:


> ...
> But all is not lost, while the micro iDSD has neither the battery current nor the circuit board space to include the ‘Tubestate*®*’ circuit, in its place there is a (Burr Brown ‘SoundPlus*®*’) Op-Amp, one of the best you can get and close in character to the Tubestate*®* circuit, but just not quite as warm, ‘tubey’ sounding.


 
  
 I hope ifi will consider Burr Brown OPA827 for the next version of iDSD or other model


----------



## gixxerwimp

proton56 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I would like to use a micro iDSD with a SAMSUNG S4 and QOBUZ, can you tell me if it's compatible ?
> ...


 
  
 Try this thread. @DanBa has compiled a very thorough compatibility list.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs
  


> A list of standard USB DAC reportedly interworking with the Android-powered smartphone Samung Galaxy S4 having a microSD card slot:
> stock Samsung Galaxy S4 > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable (ID pin grounded) >> USB DAC >> amp >>headphones
> http://goo.gl/dIwrqp


----------



## rayquaza

Hi.. My ifi micro idsd gets kinda hot while driving my Lcd2 for 30 mins on the turbo mode.. Is it normal?


----------



## Koolpep

rayquaza said:


> Hi.. My ifi micro idsd gets kinda hot while driving my Lcd2 for 30 mins on the turbo mode.. Is it normal?




Yep, that's normal.


----------



## Koolpep

rayquaza said:


> Hi.. My ifi micro idsd gets kinda hot while driving my Lcd2 for 30 mins on the turbo mode.. Is it normal?


 

 Just adding this for future reference, from the FAQs on the ifi-audio website:
  
Frequently Asked Questions All Categories » iDSD - (micro)
*Unit is overheating*
 ​  
  
  
 The Micro will run warm in *turbo mode*. Please don't worry, this is completely normal. 

 As long as the case temperature is *less than 35 degrees*/ not above room temp, then there is no reason to panic.
  
*Help Topics:* General Inquiry


----------



## rickyleelee

brother, it is not Turbo for nothing. Ever driven a Porsche? The Turbo does not run cool. Try with HE_6. Even warmer (wouldn't call it hot. Other gears run hotter than curry)


----------



## rayquaza

koolpep said:


> Yep, that's normal.







koolpep said:


> Just adding this for future reference, from the FAQs on the ifi-audio website:
> 
> Frequently Asked Questions
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info!


----------



## kurb1980

rickyleelee said:


> brother, it is not Turbo for nothing. Ever driven a Porsche? The Turbo does not run cool. Try with HE_6. Even warmer (wouldn't call it hot. Other gears run hotter than curry)


 

 HE:6 paired with the micro is like a f150 pulling a tracker trailer! I first tried the Lyr2 and still not enough juice then opted for the Mj2 bingo finally got enough juice with the micro!  Now I can't wait until the iDSD Pro launches in early 2016 then I can go fully balanced!


----------



## goodyfresh

kurb1980 said:


> HE:6 paired with the micro is like a f150 pulling a tracker trailer! I first tried the Lyr2 and still not enough juice then opted for the Mj2 bingo finally got enough juice with the micro!  Now I can't wait until the iDSD Pro launches in early 2016 then I can go fully balanced!


 

 So it's even able to power the legendarily-hard-to-drive HE6, huh?  Awesome!


----------



## diamondears

Question: If I'm using iFi micro iDSD to iFi micro iTUBE to amp to speakers, which 3D switch should I use, that in the iDSD or iTUBE?


----------



## diamondears

Another question...I'm looking for another iFi DAC...what would be the iFi micro iDAC2's advantage over the iFi micro iDSD? I'm looking to get another iFi micro iDSD for pure desktop use, but I'm thinking I might save some dough with the iDAC2. Would micro iDSD be better in every aspect for desktop use?


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> Question: If I'm using iFi micro iDSD to iFi micro iTUBE to amp to speakers, which 3D switch should I use, that in the iDSD or iTUBE?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Set iDSD micro to direct out, use volume control & 3D Holographic in the iTube (which is for Speakers only). That is how we advise our distributors torecommend to dealers and customers.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

diamondears said:


> Another question...I'm looking for another iFi DAC...what would be the iFi micro iDAC2's advantage over the iFi micro iDSD? I'm looking to get another iFi micro iDSD for pure desktop use, but I'm thinking I might save some dough with the iDAC2. Would micro iDSD be better in every aspect for desktop use?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Pure desktop, go iDAC2. It is 80:20 portable/desktop. (unless you use super sensitive IEMs that need reigning in).
  
 Micro iDSD = 60:40 portable/desktop.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

hotice said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Please allow us to explain further:
  
 With respect, adding oodles of even order harmonics is not what Tube State (or even our real tube circuitry) is about. It is true this is quite prevalent in the <$1,000 segment of the audio market where quite a few companies do not do truly high-end stuff (with respect). Some people try to emulate 'Tube Sound' by just adding distortion. The result invariably is an unrealistic dummy sound, nothing like real tubes. We agree this goes on with some companies that just make tubes but never really went 'all out.'
  
 But this is not what we do. With the AMR background, iFi thinks and works a little different. And yes, for measurements people, they can have their cake and eat it too.
  
 ClieOS measured the iCAN (with tubestate Circuit) in his review:
 http://www.inearmatters.net/2013/04/impression-ifi-audio-idac-ican-iusb.html
  
 He explained "In fact, iCAN performance has excessed the resolution of my measuring setup so it looks pretty much perfect."
  
 He also tested the iTube:
 http://www.inearmatters.net/2013/08/impression-ifi-audio-itube-magic-infused.html
  
 His comments on how it measured compared to iCAN alone: "we are talking about 0.001% of difference in THD and 0.004% in IMD+Noise, plus less than 2dBA in overall noise level."
  
 Neither the Tube State circuitry in the iCAN micro nor the Tube in the iTube produce much distortion, noise or other objectively measurable additions of any kind.
  
 By the way, the same holds true for the iCAN Pro. We clocked that at 'tripple zero' levels of THD (meaning 0.000X% THD) in tube mode and 126dB ( A ) Signal/Noise ratio, in single-ended mode (THD is less in balanced mode). Remember, that is in TUBE mode. So nope, we don't do the usual 'chuck loads at it' thing.
  
 This is the AMR pedigree which means we do handle tubes/valves in an unconventional manner.


----------



## Maxpain

I want to upgrade my system from windows 7 to windows 10. Is there a known problem with windows 10 drivers for the micro? And am I going to need a new firmware update or is the firmware ''saved'' in the device?


----------



## john57

The firmware  is saved inside the device. Thee is a ASIO driver that is installed on windows 10 which is the same driver used on Win7.


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please allow us to explain further:
> 
> ...



 
Sorry, but if X is the original signal, Y is the reproduction from a solid state amp (which we know have typically less than 0.01% distortion), and Z is the tube state reproduction which has, according to you, a very limited distortion as well, if Y=~X and Z=~ X, isn't Y=~Z?
Hypothesis which stand its grounds of actual A/B tests done on human perception of audio distortion.
One among them:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/distortion


----------



## diamondears

hotice said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



Lol


----------



## iFi audio

hotice said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Good comments - we like 'em.
  
 Please allow us to convey our thoughts.
  
 This is correct to a certain degree, however the fundamental limitation applies that if A and B have harmonic distortion below audibility they are equal only insofar as harmonic distortion is concerned.
  
 To draw from this very limited equivalence the conclusion that A & B must sound identical is highly illogical, unscientific and cannot be supported by solid science. We like solid science as much as the next person.
  
 Yes, there are those who claim that if A & B have similar distortion and flat frequency response they sound the same and as evidence they point to deeply and fundamenally flawed semi-blind tests that are subject to bad test implementation, the deliberate creation of anticipatory bias which maximises the nocebo effect and topped off with shocking bad statistical analysis, which all combined return 'null' results with great reliability even if the audible difference stimulus is extreme.
  
 Audio is subjective and people are free to base their faith in such 'cargo cult science' instead of listening for themselves and coming to their own conclusions but we always recommend that people keep an open mind and try for themselves - and arrive at their own informed conclusions.


----------



## semeniub

hotice said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
  
 I am not aware of any peer-reviewed published research (i.e. serious) showing the precise correlation between how distortion in hifi electronics is propagated through the loudspeaker or headphone drivers, then into our hearing mechanisms, and how that is interpreted by our brains.
  
 Until we have that, claims about what we should be hearing are just that, claims. Measurements are nice, but they are not absolutes.
  
 Until things improve, It’s really best to make final judgements based on what you hear yourself.


----------



## DougD

ifi audio said:


> Audio is subjective and people are free to base their faith in such 'cargo cult science'


 
  
  
 I keep watching iFi Audio threads, and periodically you all announce some new product, which is often followed immediately by mana from heaven being spread amongst the worthy. (I myself have been so gifted.) 
  
 Pretty solid scientific evidence in support of the Cargo Cult Theory, IMO.


----------



## rickyleelee

X Files. The truth is out there. Isn't a new X Files coming along?


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> To draw from this very limited equivalence the conclusion that A & B must sound identical is highly illogical, unscientific and cannot be supported by solid science. We like solid science as much as the next person.
> 
> Yes, there are those who claim that if A & B have similar distortion and flat frequency response they sound the same and as evidence they point to deeply and fundamenally flawed semi-blind tests that are subject to bad test implementation, the deliberate creation of anticipatory bias which maximises the nocebo effect and topped off with shocking bad statistical analysis, which all combined return 'null' results with great reliability even if the audible difference stimulus is extreme.



 
Let's shed off the big words ... I understand this is an evil topic to bring up in an audiophile board, but what you are saying is that, given an original signal, and a signal which is unchanged (according to you), those actually sound different? Assuming the speaker being a deterministic device, which reproduces the same sound waves given the same input, your statement would imply some sort of Dark Signal(TM), which is hidden within the measurable signal, which at the end make the speaker behave differently.
While I cannot rule that out, that seems not very likely to me.

PS: I like my iDSD don't get me wrong. It's just that VooDoo science triggers an uncontrollable urge to reply.


----------



## HotIce

semeniub said:


> I am not aware of any peer-reviewed published research (i.e. serious) showing the precise correlation between how distortion in hifi electronics is propagated through the loudspeaker or headphone drivers, then into our hearing mechanisms, and how that is interpreted by our brains.
> 
> Until we have that, claims about what we should be hearing are just that, claims. Measurements are nice, but they are not absolutes.
> 
> Until things improve, It’s really best to make final judgements based on what you hear yourself.



 
That was not a blind test. You should have actually read the article. People under test were told that distortion was going to be added, and they should tell when they heard something off with the sound.
There was no amp A vs. amp B, or speaker C vs. speaker D thing, with people having an agenda to push.
Science cannot tell what you hear. Science, by the means of statistics, can predict what the majority would hear.
And yes, there have been plenty of A/B tests done (plenty posted within this forum as well), with respectable organizations behind, which debunked many of the myths going around.
Unfortunately A/B stands to VooDoo science, like sunlight to vampires


----------



## semeniub

hotice said:


> semeniub said:
> 
> 
> > I am not aware of any peer-reviewed published research (i.e. serious) showing the precise correlation between how distortion in hifi electronics is propagated through the loudspeaker or headphone drivers, then into our hearing mechanisms, and how that is interpreted by our brains.
> ...


 

 I did indeed read the article, and would say that it qualifies as a nicely run case study, nothing more. Could I draw conclusions from that work, and apply those conclusions to other cases with different listeners and equipment (i.e. headphones as opposed to loudspeakers)???
  
 As an example, Axiom did their tests through their own loudspeakers. Each loudspeaker driver cone will break up into vibrational resonance frequencies depending on the design and materials of the driver. Did these driver resonances influence or mask the distortion introduced for the subjects to identify?
  
 Did Axiom measure this resonance behaviour in their work to confirm it didn't influence the test? Doubt it.
  
 Nothing Voodoo, just that conclusions from these type of simple comparisons are incomplete because the entire picture is not considered.


----------



## EVOLVIST




----------



## marcus1

Anyone using the Micro with a Raspberry Pi set up with the Moode audio player?  
  
 I'm trying to find the best setting on Moode for the Micro.  Using the "disabled" setting (Moode's volume control deactivated) and the Micro set to Eco power is too much gain - it's very loud with the Micro's volume control set at 9 o'clock.
  
 Tim Curtis has suggested using the "Software" option on Moode which I will try next but still interested if anyone here is using the Moode player.
  
 Thanks


----------



## technobear

marcus1 said:


> Anyone using the Micro with a Raspberry Pi set up with the Moode audio player?
> 
> I'm trying to find the best setting on Moode for the Micro.  Using the "disabled" setting (Moode's volume control deactivated) and the Micro set to Eco power is too much gain - it's very loud with the Micro's volume control set at 9 o'clock.
> 
> ...




This isn't a problem with the Moode player. Disabling the volume control doesn't make the bits louder. Disabling the volume control is the right thing to do so that you get the music bit-perfect to the iDSD.

The problem here will be that you headphones are too sensitive. Have you tried engaging the IEMatch control on the underside of the iDSD. That should solve your problem (that's why it's there).


----------



## marcus1

Thanks.
 I should have mentioned that I'm not using the Micro for headphone use but using it as the preamp for my home stereo; feeding the Micro's RCA output to my stereo amp.  I don't think the IEMatch control affects the RCA output - sorry should have been clearer.


----------



## john57

marcus1 said:


> Thanks.
> I should have mentioned that I'm not using the Micro for headphone use but using it as the preamp for my home stereo; feeding the Micro's RCA output to my stereo amp.  I don't think the IEMatch control affects the RCA output - sorry should have been clearer.


 
 Looks like the equipment attach to the micro has a very sensitive or low max input voltage. The fixed level is 2v and the variable is 2v to 5v. You could use RCA Line Level Attenuators. You are not using the microphone inputs?


----------



## technobear

marcus1 said:


> Thanks.
> I should have mentioned that I'm not using the Micro for headphone use but using it as the preamp for my home stereo; feeding the Micro's RCA output to my stereo amp.  I don't think the IEMatch control affects the RCA output - sorry should have been clearer.




No indeed it doesn't affect the RCA outputs.

By stereo amp do you mean power amp (i.e. lacking its own volume control)?

The iDSD puts out the same output as any pre-amp would. Perhaps your stereo amp is just too powerful for your needs. 

One relatively cheap answer is to get a set of RCA attenuators (Rothwell, Goldenjacks...) and stick them on the input to your stereo amp.

*Edit*: that would be preferable to engaging software volume control. The latter will change the data sent to the DAC so it is no longer bit-perfect. I don't know what type of volume control method is used in the Moode. Some are better than others but in general it's best avoided.


----------



## GradoSound

marcus1 said:


> Thanks.
> I should have mentioned that I'm not using the Micro for headphone use but using it as the preamp for my home stereo; feeding the Micro's RCA output to my stereo amp.  I don't think the IEMatch control affects the RCA output - sorry should have been clearer.


 
  
 Assuming you have an Integrated Amp (with volume knob) and you don't want to use a software volume control (not recommended), you can try two settings with Micro iDSD
  
 a) Set the Output switch (switch underneath labeled as Output) to "Direct" and control the volume from your Amp, or
  
 b) Set the Output switch to "Pre-Amp" and control the volume from Micro iDSD and Amp volume combination. Not ideal but, I would imagine, better than software control.
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## marcus1

Yes, it's a power amp and I'm using the volume control on the Micro (Micro is set to preamp).  Thanks for the suggestion re the RCA attenuators - I'll look into that.
 I'll also ask Tim Curtis about using the Software volume control on Moode and how it affects the digital signal.
  
  
 Quote:


technobear said:


> No indeed it doesn't affect the RCA outputs.
> 
> By stereo amp do you mean power amp (i.e. lacking its own volume control)?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


gradosound said:


> Assuming you have an Integrated Amp (with volume knob) and you don't want to use a software volume control (not recommended), you can try two settings with Micro iDSD
> 
> a) Set the Output switch (switch underneath labeled as Output) to "Direct" and control the volume from your Amp, or
> 
> ...


----------



## diamondears

You may be inadvertently using high gain (9dB gain). I've tested the micro iDSD as a preamp and its gain is normal for speakers. Turn off the micro iDSD, put the switches to Eco and Preamp, then turn it on.

Where the switch is before you turn on the unit governs.


----------



## HotIce

semeniub said:


> I did indeed read the article, and would say that it qualifies as a nicely run case study, nothing more. Could I draw conclusions from that work, and apply those conclusions to other cases with different listeners and equipment (i.e. headphones as opposed to loudspeakers)???
> 
> As an example, Axiom did their tests through their own loudspeakers. Each loudspeaker driver cone will break up into vibrational resonance frequencies depending on the design and materials of the driver. Did these driver resonances influence or mask the distortion introduced for the subjects to identify?
> 
> ...



 
Again, that was a study to measure the level of distortion a set of listeners could hear from the signal.
The conditions were all the same for all the listeners.
If driver resonance would have increased the distortion, on top of the artificial one added to the signal, that would have decreased, not increased, the tolerance to distortion.
Unless of course, you are saying that those were somehow magic speakers, which were able to somehow remove distortion from the signal.
If yes, I think I am going to ask Axiom a sample, because we are onto something


----------



## semeniub

hotice said:


> semeniub said:
> 
> 
> > I did indeed read the article, and would say that it qualifies as a nicely run case study, nothing more. Could I draw conclusions from that work, and apply those conclusions to other cases with different listeners and equipment (i.e. headphones as opposed to loudspeakers)???
> ...


 

 Or the driver resonance masked the distortion that listeners were supposed to be hearing and assessing...
  
 If Axion didn't confirm this was the case, how believable is the study? Are the conclusions then useful, especially to other setups? What does it say about their level of technical proficiency that they didn't address this?
  
 How then can we relate this to the original comments iFi made regarding distortion??? As I proposed earlier, a nice little study, but incomplete.


----------



## Hubert481

Which firmware has the best SQ ?
Did someone compare the different firmwareversions?


----------



## Koolpep

hubert481 said:


> Which firmware has the best SQ ?
> Did someone compare the different firmwareversions?


 

 Absolutely no change for me.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Music Path

hubert481 said:


> Which firmware has the best SQ ?
> Did someone compare the different firmwareversions?




No substantial change in my case.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

The Bassheads have landed
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hide your women and children and smallish prone to distortion drivers


----------



## goodyfresh

hawaiibadboy said:


> The Bassheads have landed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LMAO!  In your opinion, as a bass-lover, how good is the bass-boost on the iDSD?


----------



## Bonobo

Is there someone who went from an O2/Odac amp to this Ifi Micro?
 Would it be an upgrade? Can anybody share a few words on this?


----------



## chillaxing

hawaiibadboy said:


> The Bassheads have landed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 WOOOOOO!!!  We invading and taking over
  
@goodyfresh The bass boost on the idsd is real subtle.  The bass boost on the ican is much better but it also has one more setting than the idsd.  But you know how we do it with eq 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 WOOOOO!!!! Bassheads unite!!!!


----------



## Dixter

bonobo said:


> Is there someone who went from an O2/Odac amp to this Ifi Micro?
> Would it be an upgrade? Can anybody share a few words on this?


 
 Yes the idsd is an upgrade to the O2/Odac...  the original Odac does not handle DSD..  more options on the idsd to match headphone/iem outputs and filters...


----------



## Music Path

chillaxing said:


> WOOOOOO!!!  We invading and taking over
> 
> @goodyfresh The bass boost on the idsd is real subtle.  The bass boost on the ican is much better but it also has one more setting than the idsd.  But you know how we do it with eq
> 
> ...


 
 + bass boost on the ican is a bit more defined. Better amplification.


----------



## goodyfresh

chillaxing said:


> WOOOOOO!!!  We invading and taking over
> 
> @goodyfresh The bass boost on the idsd is real subtle.  The bass boost on the ican is much better but it also has one more setting than the idsd.  But you know how we do it with eq
> 
> ...


 
 Damn.  Everybody says that so many aspects of the sound of the iCan are much better tahn the amp in the iDSD.  But I'm only really going to have the money, in the semi-near future (like, next few months), for the iDSD, not for a stack with it AND the iCan. . .


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

goodyfresh said:


> Damn.  Everybody says that so many aspects of the sound of the iCan are much better tahn the amp in the iDSD.  But I'm only really going to have the money, in the semi-near future (like, next few months), for the iDSD, not for a stack with it AND the iCan. . .


 

  
  
  
 It's always the OTHER thing that sounds just a bit better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My nano stack sounds similar to the micro iDSD.  I use it for IEM
  
  
 Big Hoss micro iDSD pushes over ears. They are both uber.


----------



## diamondears

bonobo said:


> Is there someone who went from an O2/Odac amp to this Ifi Micro?
> Would it be an upgrade? Can anybody share a few words on this?



Didn't have the ODAC, just the O2, but been using the micro iDSD with the O2 for a while. IMO, micro iCAN is better, due to its richer lower mids and more bodied bass to sub-bass. And the XBass and 3D are really great, very useful if you want to tweak or correct recordings and/or headphones. 

micro iDSD is a great DAC, DSD-capable and have an excellent digital filter (Bit-Perfect filter), among 2 others. And it's portable and battery-powered (no noise from power/electrical). I stack the micro iDSD with the FiiO E12/E12A when I want to loiter around the house and it sounds end game to me. Would like to try the nano iCAN for this purpose someday. 



goodyfresh said:


> LMAO!  In your opinion, as a bass-lover, how good is the bass-boost on the iDSD?


 Question not directed to me, but I believe in Harman-Olive curve, and I wasn't happy with micro iDSD's XBass-boost. Its just sub-bass, so you wouldn't even notice it on many tracks. I like the nano iDSD's integrated DAC-amp better actually. But micro iDSD + FiiO E12 with bass boost on is excellent for bass heavy tracks.


----------



## Dithyrambes

Man......my heart is dropping as I heard that this new mojo is better than the ifi idsd


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

dithyrambes said:


> Man......my heart is dropping as I heard that this new mojo is better than the ifi idsd


 

  Really I heard different.
 I heard it's thin in the vocals and lacks a punch due to it's good but  not great amp stage. It's a hype train...don't believe it.
 I trust the opinion, shop staff, hears stuff, no allegiances.
  
 Pick your heart up...it's a hype


----------



## chillaxing

goodyfresh said:


> Damn.  Everybody says that so many aspects of the sound of the iCan are much better tahn the amp in the iDSD.  But I'm only really going to have the money, in the semi-near future (like, next few months), for the iDSD, not for a stack with it AND the iCan. . .


 
  
  
 If I didn't have have the stack I would be happy with the idsd micro by itself.  It sounds great and drives any headphones except the he-500 and 6.
  
 But since I do have both, I do like the ican a little more.  It just has a little more weight and a warmer sound to it.  I do listen to my music pretty loud, so anything that darkens the sound, I enjoy more.
  
 At home, i use the ican.  On the go, I use the idsd.


----------



## Dithyrambes

Selling my Ifi Micro for anyone interested. In perfect condition other than stated.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785975/ifi-micro-idsd


----------



## Maxpain

Hello,I just saw that a new driver 2.26 is out and I want to update my software. Do I need to uninstall the previous driver or it is done automatically when I launch the new driver?


----------



## technobear

maxpain said:


> Hello,I just saw that a new driver 2.26 is out and I want to update my software. Do I need to uninstall the previous driver or it is done automatically when I launch the new driver?




Uninstall first.


----------



## proton56

I have found this in the older posts :
  
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_Originally Posted by *iFi audio* 

_
  
_*Beta firmware - Testing Solutions to Spotify/Tidal streaming on Android and DSD256 on MAC*_
  
  
_*Warning. 

 Please try this only if you are comfortable with upgrading the firmware on your nano iDSD/micro iDSD/Retro Stereo 50 Beta firmware allows one to:*_
  
 
 
_*1)* Version 4.8 Beta - Output audio for Android if you encounter lack of compatibility with Device X and Spotify/Tidal* etc., USB Host mode remains required. _
 

_Devices tested so far Sony Xperia Z Ultra and Samsung Galaxy S4, allows system audio, including Games and Android Music Playback via iFi iDSD etc._
_We have developed a Firmware workaround that enables this for several Android Phones in our possession, but need wider testing._
  
 
 
_*2)* Version 4.8.4 - DSD256 via DoP for iDSD nano (and upcoming iDAC2 micro) is now supported, using a special beta firmware. This firmware is redundant on iDSD micro and Retro Stereo 50._
 

_This is primarily for Mac, for Windows ASIO Native remains recommended._
_Note that this Firmware unlocks 705k/768kHz sample rates on the iDSD nano and iDAC2 micro with hardware that mutes on 705/768k PCM. _
_As Mac's default the audio to the highest rate this means there will be no audio until you lower the sample rate in the control panel to 384khz._
  
 

_Note that on Windows either Firmware update requires the Version 2.23 iFi Driver, earlier versions are NOT supported._
  
  
_Please open a support ticket here to receive this firmware_
  
  
_Or open a ticket and contact your iCLUB conciege_
  
_Thanks_
  
  
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 Hi
  
 I have a micro iDSD with 5.0B (i have also tried 5.0) and a SAMSUNG S4 with lollipop 5.0.1, and I can't have any sound with the iDSD execpted with UAPP.
  
 Do you have tested both ?  do you know what to do ?
  - Instal ktikat  4.4 ?
  - Instal iDSD 4.8 frimware ?
  - Is there something to do with  USB Host mode ?
  
  
 I would like tu use QOBUZ, TIDAL or SPOTIFY.
  
  
  
 Thanks

 Proton


----------



## Hubert481

Is there any trick to get battery information
If it is full (blue light turns of whenn fully charged)
75% full
50% full
25 % full

I would like to know, how long i still can listen to the music when using a lightning adapter and iphone.
Wish there would be a %-LCD-Display


----------



## mbusby

technobear said:


> Uninstall first.


 
  
 The 2.26 driver now uninstalls the previous driver automatically according to the release notes (at least mine did).


----------



## LoryWiv

mbusby said:


> The 2.26 driver now uninstalls the previous driver automatically according to the release notes (at least mine did).


 
 Mine did so as well, installed flawlessly and I appreciate improvement in startup latency.


----------



## technobear

Good. I was a beta tester so perhaps that is why I was asked to uninstall.


----------



## drabbish

checking on everyone's opinion.  I run tidal to imicro to lcd3f (upsample tidal to 786 via audio midi). 
  
 which would you guys do next?

 1. upgrade stock headphone cable
 2. ican 
 3. upgrade usb cable and add usb regen?
  
 headphone cable was gonna be wireworld nano platinum
 usb cable would be wireworld usb plat.
  
 also, is it possible to run the itube back to the imicro amp or does adding the itube to a idsd require an ican for a headphone amp?


----------



## technobear

drabbish said:


> checking on everyone's opinion. I run tidal to imicro to lcd3f (upsample tidal to 786 via audio midi).
> 
> which would you guys do next?
> 
> ...




micro iCAN first, iPurifier2 second




drabbish said:


> also, is it possible to run the itube back to the imicro amp or does adding the itube to a idsd require an ican for a headphone amp?




I don't think it's possible. In any case I don't think it would be worthwhile.

Forget iTUBE until you have iCAN and iPurifier2.


----------



## goodyfresh

technobear said:


> micro iCAN first, iPurifier2 second
> I don't think it's possible. In any case I don't think it would be worthwhile.
> 
> Forget iTUBE until you have iCAN and iPurifier2.


 
 Doesn't the iDSD have the iPurifier tech built-in, by the way?  or so I've heard. . .


----------



## ClieOS

drabbish said:


> also, is it possible to run the itube back to the imicro amp or does adding the itube to a idsd require an ican for a headphone amp?


 
  
 Even if it can (which it can't), you really don't want to set it up like that. iTube is designed with loudspeaker in mind. Feeding it into a headphone amp really isn't ideal, since you can't use the Holographic 3D sound at all.


----------



## Faber65

technobear said:


> micro iCAN first, iPurifier2 second
> I don't think it's possible. In any case I don't think it would be worthwhile.
> 
> Forget iTUBE until you have iCAN and iPurifier2.




I agree completely. 
Go for the iCan first.


----------



## technobear

goodyfresh said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > micro iCAN first, iPurifier2 second
> ...




iPurifier 2 takes it to another level.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

technobear said:


> iPurifier 2 takes it to another level.


 

  
  
 Of course it does. That's why it has the #2
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I already got 3 ifi in my life can you tell me what the other level is....roughly?


----------



## technobear

hawaiibadboy said:


> Of course it does. That's why it has the #2 :rolleyes:
> 
> I already got 3 ifi in my life can you tell me what the other level is....roughly?




http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread


----------



## goodyfresh

technobear said:


> iPurifier 2 takes it to another level.


 

 How-so?

 And is that a yest to my question about the iDSD?


----------



## technobear

goodyfresh said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > iPurifier 2 takes it to another level.
> ...




The micro iDSD has a version of the original passive iPurifier technology built in.

The iPurifier 2 adds active noise cancellation and signal regeneration.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread


----------



## netterly

Could I use it also with a turntable? If not what would be a cheap/good way to connect a turntable to the iDSD?
 Thanks


----------



## tf1216

netterly said:


> Could I use it also with a turntable? If not what would be a cheap/good way to connect a turntable to the iDSD?
> Thanks


 
  
 One of iFi's coolest products http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iphono/


----------



## goodyfresh

technobear said:


> The micro iDSD has a version of the original passive iPurifier technology built in.
> 
> The iPurifier 2 adds active noise cancellation and signal regeneration.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread


 
 Wait what?  Active-noise-cancelatioN?  You sure?


----------



## technobear

goodyfresh said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > The micro iDSD has a version of the original passive iPurifier technology built in.
> ...




Look and learn 

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier2/


----------



## roamling

technobear said:


> Look and learn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi, would it make sense to use the new ipurifier2 with the micro iDSD? Furthermore from looking at the pictures on the ifi website there is a USB A version of the new ipurifer, would that fit straight into the USB port of the iDSD WITHOUT an adapter (aka is it a female USB A port)?
  
 maybe ifi Audio could shed some light on that. Thanks!


----------



## technobear

roamling said:


> Hi, would it make sense to use the new ipurifier2 with the micro iDSD?




All answered here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread

As for the plug/socket types:



That is an A socket for the micro iDSD.


----------



## goodyfresh

technobear said:


> All answered here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread
> 
> As for the plug/socket types:
> 
> ...


 

 So there input is USB-type-B for all of them, but the output has four different options???? Neat!


----------



## roamling

neat


----------



## roamling

so still one open question... do i need the ipurifier2 to clean up anything the built in purifier in the idsd cant do!?


----------



## technobear

roamling said:


> so still one open question... do i need the ipurifier2 to clean up anything the built in purifier in the idsd cant do!?




All answered here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread


----------



## gr8soundz

goodyfresh said:


> So there input is USB-type-B for all of them, but the output has four different options???? Neat!


 
  
 Too bad the output types aren't interchangeable. Have to buy whichever version fits the DAC you currently have.
  
 I do like that they finally made an accessory that will fit the iDSD without using another adapter but if you have another DAC with different output you can't simply move the iPurifier2 to it. Otherwise, you'll need to purchase multiples or use an adapter to fit it (which could affect how the iPurifier2 works).


----------



## technobear

gr8soundz said:


> Too bad the output types aren't interchangeable. Have to buy whichever version fits the DAC you currently have.
> 
> I do like that they finally made an accessory that will fit the iDSD without using another adapter but if you have another DAC with different output you can't simply move the iPurifier2 to it. Otherwise, you'll need to purchase multiples or use an adapter to fit it (which could affect how the iPurifier2 works).




It's working very well through an adaptor to the iDSD here.


----------



## coastal1

thenewguy007 said:


> So I finally want to try the optical cables out on my PC, see if there will be any improvement over using the USB cable.
> I connected the longer end part to my Micro
> 
> 
> and the shoter bit to the back of my PC


 
  
 What's the consensus on the best connection from PC-> iFi Micro?  I've just been using the USB included in w/ the Micro and have been very happy with that, but curious if others hear an improvement with a different connection.


----------



## mbusby

I use the optical input for my 6th gen iPod classic via a Pure I-20 dock. At the same time, I have usb connected from my pc. Both interfaces work in tandem through the iDSD. The iPod sounds great via the I-20 (digital out of the iPod via the dock). I would assume that using the pc optical out would have the same performance.


----------



## coastal1

mbusby said:


> I use the optical input for my 6th gen iPod classic via a Pure I-20 dock. At the same time, I have usb connected from my pc. Both interfaces work in tandem through the iDSD. The iPod sounds great via the I-20 (digital out of the iPod via the dock). I would assume that using the pc optical out would have the same performance.


 
  
 Thanks, I've used the my iPhone w/ a CCK adapter and have been happy with that but have not tried other connections so I guess I'm also interested in best iPod/iPhone connections (have an Ipod 6th gen Classic but havent used it much recently due to a lot of low quality files, though plan to revamp the Ipod w/ lossless files).


----------



## wildlife2011

I am thinking of using my iDSD Micro as my DAC not as DAC/amp. What amp can be paired with it under $600 budget any suggestion?


----------



## Koolpep

wildlife2011 said:


> I am thinking of using my iDSD Micro as my DAC not as DAC/amp. What amp can be paired with it under $600 budget any suggestion?




1) why wouldn't you want to see the amp part? Buy the idac2 then...

2) which headphones do you want to drive?

Cheers,
K


----------



## wildlife2011

koolpep said:


> 1) why wouldn't you want to see the amp part? Buy the idac2 then...
> 
> 2) which headphones do you want to drive?
> 
> ...


 
 HE-400S and 1964 ears A6


----------



## Koolpep

wildlife2011 said:


> HE-400S and 1964 ears A6




Hmm both have very different requirements. The1964 will be most likely perfectly fine driven from the idsd in iem mode. The H400s will work a charm in turbo mode. 

For the HE-400s I would recommend the Gustard H10. Lovely sounding amp. And pairs well with the idsd micro as dac. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## DomieMic65

How does the micro sound with the new Fostex 50MKIII?? 
Any experience??


----------



## jhwalker

domiemic65 said:


> How does the micro sound with the new Fostex 50MKIII??
> Any experience??


 

 I'm using this combo right now, and I think it's a great match.
  
 I turned off IEMatch, set Power Model to "Normal", and turned Bass Boost "On".  Sounds very close to my HifiMan HE500 and my Alpha Prime!


----------



## DomieMic65

Thank you... 
This is very good news..  

Any other opinions???


----------



## KotBegemot

I just bought a IFI dsd micro, and using it in my main system with pre-amp out , and NOT using USB input yet , just using optical input…. The unit sounds fine, however I’m unable to keep it powered to the USB charger when used with optical input … As soon as I connect it to the USB charger the unit goes silent.. I ve read the manual and , and I guess USB  input takes priority, and shuts other inputs… But then I run out of battery power using optical input … Is there any way to keep the unit plugged in at all times while using optical input and preamplifier and not to recharge it every few hours? Thanks so much!


----------



## mbusby

kotbegemot said:


> I just bought a IFI dsd micro, and using it in my main system with pre-amp out , and NOT using USB input yet , just using optical input…. The unit sounds fine, however I’m unable to keep it powered to the USB charger when used with optical input … As soon as I connect it to the USB charger the unit goes silent.. I ve read the manual and , and I guess USB  input takes priority, and shuts other inputs… But then I run out of battery power using optical input … Is there any way to keep the unit plugged in at all times while using optical iput and preamplifier and not to recharge it every few hours? Thanks so much!


 
  
 I have the unit connected to an active usb port on my pc via a powered usb hub as well as using the optical input via a Pure I-20. Both work and neither shuts off the other. I just switch away from the usb driver via the playback devices menu (Win. 7, 64 bit) when using the optical input. Using an active usb port may be the solution.


----------



## KotBegemot

mbusby said:


> I have the unit connected to an active usb port on my pc via a powered usb hub as well as using the optical input via a Pure I-20. Both work and neither shuts off the other. I just switch away from the usb driver via the playback devices menu (Win. 7, 64 bit) when using the optical input. Using an active usb port may be the solution.


 

 Thanks for your help! Problem is i don't have a computer near my set up....Will just the active usb hub by itself plugged into usb wall adapter do? Thanks again


----------



## mbusby

kotbegemot said:


> Thanks for your help! Problem is i don't have a computer near my set up....Will just the active usb hub by itself plugged into usb wall adapter do? Thanks again


 
  
 Do you power on the iDSD before plugging it into the charger/hub? See section 3 of the user guide that comes with the unit.


----------



## KotBegemot

mbusby said:


> Do you power on the iDSD before plugging it into the charger/hub? See section 3 of the user guide that comes with the unit.


 

 Yes of course! I charged it fully... I have followed the sequence in USER's manual but to no avail    I just bought  a USB cable with separate USB signal and power leads... May be that will work if I supply power only ... Bummer, would hate to return the unit as I really enjoy how it sounds!


----------



## mbusby

kotbegemot said:


> Yes of course! I charged it fully... I have followed the sequence in USER's manual but to no avail    I just bought  a USB cable with separate USB signal and power leads... May be that will work if I supply power only ... Bummer, would hate to return the unit as I really enjoy how it sounds!


 
  
 Well, if you power up the iDSD before plugging it in to the charger/hub it will drain the battery.


----------



## KotBegemot

I just bought a IFI dsd micro, and using it in my main system with pre-amp out , and NOT using USB input yet , just using optical input…. The unit sounds fine, however I’m unable to keep it powered to the USB charger when used with optical input … As soon as I connect it to the USB charger the unit goes silent.. I ve read the manual and , and I guess USB  input takes priority, and shuts other inputs… But then I run out of battery power using optical input … Is there any way to keep the unit plugged in at all times while using optical input and preamplifier and not to recharge it every few hours? Thanks so much!
  
  
  
 Anyone else might have any suggestions? Would appreciate it greatly!


----------



## technobear

kotbegemot said:


> mbusby said:
> 
> 
> > Do you power on the iDSD before plugging it into the charger/hub? See section 3 of the user guide that comes with the unit.
> ...




I found patience is the answer. It takes a little time, usually about 10 seconds, for the iDSD to start playing the optical input while connected to USB.


----------



## KotBegemot

technobear said:


> I found patience is the answer. It takes a little time, usually about 10 seconds, for the iDSD to start playing the optical input while connected to USB.


 

 Well , I  just waited for 5 minutes, and nothing   ! Actually its NOT a USB port on a computer that I am attaching, but  to a wall USB charger.. I ve ordered a USB cable with separate power and signal leads so may be that will help....  Thanks in any event!


----------



## kevinq

kotbegemot said:


> I just bought a IFI dsd micro, and using it in my main system with pre-amp out , and NOT using USB input yet , just using optical input…. The unit sounds fine, however I’m unable to keep it powered to the USB charger when used with optical input … As soon as I connect it to the USB charger the unit goes silent.. I ve read the manual and , and I guess USB  input takes priority, and shuts other inputs… But then I run out of battery power using optical input … Is there any way to keep the unit plugged in at all times while using optical input and preamplifier and not to recharge it every few hours? Thanks so much!




I had the same question, in post #4664 on page 311, and never received an answer.

My only "solution" thus far is to use a powered USB hub with individual switches for each port. Whenever I use the iDSD's optical input, I make sure the hub's port that's connected to the iDSD is switched off. This way, at least I don't have to be be connecting and unconnecting the USB cable all the time.


----------



## Rearwing

domiemic65 said:


> How does the micro sound with the new Fostex 50MKIII??
> Any experience??


 

 I have had my Foster's modded, which may not be much help to you, but they sound really smooth, enough power to bring out the best in them.


----------



## KotBegemot

kevinq said:


> I had the same question, in post #4664 on page 311, and never received an answer.
> 
> My only "solution" thus far is to use a powered USB hub with individual switches for each port. Whenever I use the iDSD's optical input, I make sure the hub's port that's connected to the iDSD is switched off. This way, at least I don't have to be be connecting and unconnecting the USB cable all the time.


 
 After  an extensive back and forth with IFIs technical support they suggested I try different versions of firmware, and finally  an older version 4.06 solved the problem .... Make sure you wait for like for 5 seconds for signal from optical input to come on.... The instructions are there on their support page as are several firmware versions.... Hope this helps!


----------



## HotIce

Rather downgrading, do they have any plan to offer a new version with the fix?


----------



## KotBegemot

hotice said:


> Rather downgrading, do they have any plan to offer a new version with the fix?


 

 I ve no idea... They said they are working on this bug, but I guess if enough people will let them know , they  might accelerate their efforts! Thus far that is the solution which worked in my case, thankfully, although there are still hiccups


----------



## kevinq

kotbegemot said:


> kevinq said:
> 
> 
> > I had the same question, in post #4664 on page 311, and never received an answer.
> ...


 

 Hey, thanks for the work on this, and the possible solution. I'll give this a try in a few days, unless I hear in the meantime that a future firmware update will fix this, as well. I'm OK with waiting awhile for the fix.


----------



## MattTCG

Could someone link a nice low profile cable to go between the idsd miro and an Android? 
  
 thanks,...


----------



## kevinq

kevinq said:


> kotbegemot said:
> 
> 
> > kevinq said:
> ...


 

 I just tried it, but alas, the Mac version of the updater only seems to be able to install version 5.00. I don't have a non-Mac computer, unfortunately. Again, I'll be hoping that a future, Mac-friendly firmware update will also rectify this issue.


----------



## KotBegemot

kevinq said:


> I just tried it, but alas, the Mac version of the updater only seems to be able to install version 5.00. I don't have a non-Mac computer, unfortunately. Again, I'll be hoping that a future, Mac-friendly firmware update will also rectify this issue.


 

 I had exactly the same situation!!!! I borrowed a Windoze laptop from a friend of mine and managed to do the downgrade... You have to get IFI windows driver first , then download the version 4.06, and then from within the Programs, find IFI and look for app updater , and then choose the 4.06 version... Make sure you remember where the firmware is downloaded...or follow instructions on IFI page .... After you done upgrading, turn unit off and on.. as well as toggle Preamp/direct switch ...Let me know if have any questions...


----------



## kevinq

Thank you! I'll have to figure out where I might be able to borrow a PC from...


----------



## kevinq

kotbegemot said:


> kevinq said:
> 
> 
> > I just tried it, but alas, the Mac version of the updater only seems to be able to install version 5.00. I don't have a non-Mac computer, unfortunately. Again, I'll be hoping that a future, Mac-friendly firmware update will also rectify this issue.
> ...


 
  Thank you! I'll have to figure out where I might be able to borrow a PC from...


----------



## zachgraz

I have been using the iFi iDSD as a DAC for a week now and I can only say I love it. Especially the sound. It probably sounds more refined and "musical" than any other DAC I have owned.
 Just yesterday the Arcam irDAC (supposed to be a very good one, won numerous awards as "Best DAC") lost out to the iDSD significantly.
  
 One thing that worries me is following:
  
 I use the iDSD mainly as a DAC in my stereo. I have it connected to a power supply all of the time. When I got to bed I switch off the power to my whole stereo (remote controlled)
 but when the power is gone the iDSD still remains on and starts drawing power from the battery.
  
 Does the iDSD go into a sleep mode when there is no more signal on the coax in ? I often forget to turn it off manually, I do not want the battery to be drained and recharged every day for no reason.
 Is there any way I can make it switch off when the power USB supply is switched off ?


----------



## quodjo105

I've just bought the idsd Micro and it sounds great, but I'll need some help. I have a wireworld chroma USB cable that I was using with my schiit modi and I'd like to use it with the Micro but obviously the connector won't fit the one on the ifi. I know the ifi comes with a USB extension but I was wondering if someone can help me out with an adaptor to use with my wireworld USB cable. A link will be very much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## JootecFromMars

quodjo105 said:


> I've just bought the idsd Micro and it sounds great, but I'll need some help. I have a wireworld chroma USB cable that I was using with my schiit modi and I'd like to use it with the Micro but obviously the connector won't fit the one on the ifi. I know the ifi comes with a USB extension but I was wondering if someone can help me out with an adaptor to use with my wireworld USB cable. A link will be very much appreciated. Thanks


 
 i-fi supply the adapter in the box.


----------



## quodjo105

jootecfrommars said:


> i-fi supply the adapter in the box.



Really?.. Can't find mine.


----------



## JootecFromMars

quodjo105 said:


> Really?.. Can't find mine.


 
 It comes in a little air-sealed bag and looks like.... http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread/45#post_12071429


----------



## iFi audio

*Micro iDSD – Firmware 5.0A for SPDIF signal/USB recharge*
  
  
 For micro iDSD customers who use their machine as follows: the SPDIF receives a signal and the USB is for recharging, on firmware 5.0 and 5.0B, attaching certain USB chargers disables SPDIF input.
  
 Therefore, to re-enable this functionality, please follow this link and install firmware version 5.0A on your micro iDSD.
  
 This enables the SPDIF to receive a signal and the USB input to receive power only. So the micro iDSD can run in this configuration indefinitely.
  
http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## chillaxing

ifi audio said:


> *Micro iDSD – Firmware 5.0A for SPDIF signal/USB recharge*
> 
> 
> For micro iDSD customers who use their machine as follows: the SPDIF receives a signal and the USB is for recharging, on firmware 5.0 and 5.0B, the USB power input has been disabled.
> ...


 
  
  
  
 With version 5.0a, will the usb still be able to receive a signal if the SPDIF isn't used along with the usb?


----------



## iFi audio

chillaxing said:


> With version 5.0a, will the usb still be able to receive a signal if the SPDIF isn't used along with the usb?


 
  
Yes, USB will work as usual.


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> *Micro iDSD – Firmware 5.0A for SPDIF signal/USB recharge*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
What did 5.0B have on top of 5.0A? Any plan to have a 5.0C, which would be whatever B had on top of A, but with this issue fixed?


----------



## Koolpep

hotice said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > *Micro iDSD – Firmware 5.0A for SPDIF signal/USB recharge*
> ...


 

 Click, then read the download link, it's all explained there.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## chillaxing

I don't know if this is a problem for anyone else 
  
 when i'm on high gain.  I would need to turn the volume knob to 9 o'clock before I get channel balance. At this point the volume is pretty loud. Anything below that level, it seems the amp isn't working right and I'm getting channel imbalance.
  
 So it seems like I wont' be able to listen at low levels....
  
 is anyone experiencing this or do I have to send my unit in? 
  
 BTW, this is happening with my he-500 and lcd-2


----------



## iancraig10

I'd suggest turning the gain down so that a 'normal' level is 12 o clock. It looks as though you have the gain set too high.

Most analogue volpots will show imbalance at the very bottom of its range.


----------



## technobear

chillaxing said:


> I don't know if this is a problem for anyone else
> 
> when i'm on high gain.  I would need to turn the volume knob to 9 o'clock before I get channel balance. At this point the volume is pretty loud. Anything below that level, it seems the amp isn't working right and I'm getting channel imbalance.
> 
> ...




So why are you on 'high gain' exactly?

Clearly you should be using 'low gain' or 'Eco' mode.


----------



## Music Path

chillaxing said:


> I don't know if this is a problem for anyone else
> 
> when i'm on high gain.  I would need to turn the volume knob to 9 o'clock before I get channel balance. At this point the volume is pretty loud. Anything below that level, it seems the amp isn't working right and I'm getting channel imbalance.
> 
> ...


 
 Maybie you have set it to turbo, set it to normal or eco.


----------



## chillaxing

thanks for the help guys. I do use it on turbo. 

but that wasn't my question. I just wanted to know if anyone is having the same problem or is it just my unit.


----------



## technobear

chillaxing said:


> thanks for the help guys. I do use it on turbo.
> 
> but that wasn't my question. I just wanted to know if anyone is having the same problem or is it just my unit.




It isn't a problem.

You just aren't using it correctly.

All volume pots fail at the very bottom of their range.


----------



## Koolpep

chillaxing said:


> thanks for the help guys. I do use it on turbo.
> 
> but that wasn't my question. I just wanted to know if anyone is having the same problem or is it just my unit.




I have had a demo unit and my own unit I purchased after testing it. Both had the same imbalance at very low volume. However ifi recommends using the various settings to have your normal listening volume around 12-15:00 so that the optimum power/amp ratio is achieved.and of course there is zero imbalance after 9 o'clock. 

Since the volume pot is purely analogue, which is great, there can be imbalance at the low end. To offset this downside, you have the gain controls and iem match switch.

Cheers,
K


----------



## iancraig10

Having read that, I have noticed in the past that quite a few headphones seem to really 'Spring' to life on turbo when volume is lowered compared to normal or Eco modes.

Perhaps an illusion on my part, but of course for normal use, I try to get the vol pot around 12 o clock with all headphones.


----------



## Sound Eq

hawaiibadboy said:


> Really I heard different.
> I heard it's thin in the vocals and lacks a punch due to it's good but  not great amp stage. It's a hype train...don't believe it.
> I trust the opinion, shop staff, hears stuff, no allegiances.
> 
> Pick your heart up...it's a hype


 
 did u have the chance to compare ifi dsd micro with mojo


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

sound eq said:


> did u have the chance to compare ifi dsd micro with mojo


 

 I did.
  
 It was supposed to be very powerful and it is not (check the specs) which is why many folks are pairing it with an amp.  
 It's in no way remotely close to the output power of the micro. The nano DSD would be a reasonable comparison. The mojo sounded like a Cayin DAP to me which is not a bad thing but consider this...
  
 If you get the mojo which is an amp/dac and needs a screen ..that's 2 things you *must* have and if you find it to be _enough power_ but would like more or at least have some headroom then you are looking at a 3 level stack. There are NO DAP's that have enough power alone unless you consider the X7 and it's potential for changeable amp modules.
  I know an owner of both ... same conclusion. The DAC should not be doing much more than converting/decoding.  The mojo is not a basshead or part time basshead solution unless you go triple stack.  I use the 2 nano for semi portable but the iDSD micro needs no amp and a triple stack will never need to be considered.
  
 BTW
  
 You like the 5TX...I returned that because of not enough power. The iDSD is a very very powerful clean dac having brute that will play Mozart or Makavelli


----------



## Sound Eq

hawaiibadboy said:


> I did.
> 
> It was supposed to be very powerful and it is not (check the specs) which is why many folks are pairing it with an amp.
> It's in no way remotely close to the output power of the micro. The nano DSD would be a reasonable comparison. The mojo sounded like a Cayin DAP to me which is not a bad thing but consider this...
> ...




Wow you saved me some bucks here


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

sound eq said:


> Wow you saved me some bucks here


 

  You should listen for yourself but if you are a basshead as it seems you are I am 100% sure you will run into the power issue. That is a spec. Everything else is just opinion.


----------



## HotIce

koolpep said:


> I have had a demo unit and my own unit I purchased after testing it. Both had the same imbalance at very low volume. However ifi recommends using the various settings to have your normal listening volume around 12-15:00 so that the optimum power/amp ratio is achieved.and of course there is zero imbalance after 9 o'clock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
Yes, the large imbalance when the volume pot is below the 0900 mark, is the biggest Cons I can pin to the iDSD. Otherwise it has been great.


----------



## Roscoeiii

How about the iDSD vs Mojo on more sensitive headphones like IEMs? Certainly having sufficient power is key, but how's the bass and rest of the sound when the cans aren't too power hungry?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

roscoeiii said:


> How about the iDSD vs Mojo on more sensitive headphones like IEMs? Certainly having sufficient power is key, but how's the bass and rest of the sound when the cans aren't too power hungry?


 

  
 iDSD nano?


----------



## Roscoeiii

Nano didn't work with my Shure 846s. A big disappointment that the noise floor was so high with my sensitive, low impedance IEMs. Was glad I got it from Music Direct with their great return policy. Micro seems to have addressed the noise floor problem from what I can tell from forums. But the question remains about iDSD vs Mojo when headphones driven aren't power hungry.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

roscoeiii said:


> Nano didn't work with my Shure 846s. A big disappointment that the noise floor was so high with my sensitive, low impedance IEMs. Was glad I got it from Music Direct with their great return policy. Micro seems to have addressed the noise floor problem from what I can tell from forums. But the question remains about iDSD vs Mojo when headphones driven aren't power hungry.


 

@h1f1add1cted
  
 That user has both items. Owns the mojo and the Micro. Fire off a PM and you probably get a pretty good answer


----------



## The Walrus

Quick question: Can I charge this unit with a 5V, 2A tablet charger using this? :


----------



## gr8soundz

I don't see why it wouldn't charge the Micro unless the pins inside the adapter are wired strangely or if it was made only for certain tablets. Think the Micro only needs 700mA anyway.
  
 Good question though. Got me thinking I should get one of those myself. If it works that's one less wire to carry around.


----------



## gikigill

You can buy the correct cable off ebay or something for a few dollars. Safer than having a dongle connection in between.


----------



## The Walrus

gikigill said:


> You can buy the correct cable off ebay or something for a few dollars. Safer than having a dongle connection in between.


 
 That's good advice, thanks. But what I'm interested in is, will a 2A charger charge it faster.


----------



## gr8soundz

The Micro comes with the correct cable and 2 cheap adapters. Plus any regular usb extension cable will work fine. As long as the connections are secure either cable/adapter combo should work safely for charging.
  
 EDIT: I don't think the extra amps make a big difference. Haven't measured the Micro's power draw but I think it maxes below 1A unlike some newer devices with quick charge features.


----------



## The Walrus

gr8soundz said:


> I don't see why it wouldn't charge the Micro unless the pins inside the adapter are wired strangely or if it was made only for certain tablets. Think the Micro only needs 700mA anyway.
> 
> Good question though. Got me thinking I should get one of those myself. If it works that's one less wire to carry around.


 
 BTW, I tried the adapter and it works fine. Like you said, one less cable to carry around. I guess Micro will use whatever current it is capable of. I will leave the unit on while charging to increase the lifetime of the battery.


----------



## The Walrus

gr8soundz said:


> The Micro comes with the correct cable and 2 cheap adapters. Plus any regular usb extension cable will work fine. As long as the connections are secure either cable/adapter combo should work safely for charging.
> 
> EDIT: I don't think the extra amps make a big difference. Haven't measured the Micro's power draw but I think it maxes below 1A unlike some newer devices with quick charge features.


 
 Here it says at 1.5A it charges within 4 hours. Let me try and let you know:
  
 http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/14/


----------



## gr8soundz

the walrus said:


> Here it says at 1.5A it charges within 4 hours. Let me try and let you know:
> 
> http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/14/


 
  
 That looks to be correct (initially thought it only applied to the Micro's side usb port for charging a phone). The manual also shows 1500mA max but I do recall iFi saying the Micro will not charge if it detects less than 700mA available (or something to that effect).
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/manual/micro_iDSD_Manual.pdf


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> The Micro comes with the correct cable and 2 cheap adapters. Plus any regular usb extension cable will work fine. As long as the connections are secure either cable/adapter combo should work safely for charging.
> 
> EDIT: I don't think the extra amps make a big difference. Haven't measured the Micro's power draw but I think it maxes below 1A unlike some newer devices with quick charge features.


 
  
The iDSD micro will draw up to 1.5A from the USB connection of which up to 1A goes to charging the battery. 

If using a charger able to supply the full 1.5A (fully BC1.2 compatible) the battery will be charged fully in under 6 Hours while playing in eco or normal mode and within around 12 Hours in turbo mode.
 
It should be noted that Apple chargers are not BC1.2 compliant and so often are not recognised by the iDSD micro as offering more than 500mA charge current, in which case the iDSD micro will not draw more than 500mA from the USB connection.


----------



## The Walrus

ifi audio said:


> The iDSD micro will draw up to 1.5A from the USB connection of which up to 1A goes to charging the battery.
> 
> If using a charger able to supply the full 1.5A (fully BC1.2 compatible) the battery will be charged fully in under 6 Hours while playing in eco or normal mode and within around 12 Hours in turbo mode.
> 
> It should be noted that Apple chargers are not BC1.2 compliant and so often are not recognised by the iDSD micro as offering more than 500mA charge current, in which case the iDSD micro will not draw more than 500mA from the USB connection.


 
 Is there a way to connect the Micro to the computer for playback and a powered USB source for charging at the same time?


----------



## ClieOS

the walrus said:


> Is there a way to connect the Micro to the computer for playback and a powered USB source for charging at the same time?


 
  
  The solution is to have a BC1.2 complied USB hub between the PC and micro iDSD. I am using one from Orico. Some PC these days also have built-in BC1.2 complied USB ports as well.


----------



## Dixter

if you purchase a USB splitter cable... yes


----------



## The Walrus

clieos said:


> The solution is to have a BC1.2 complied USB hub between the PC and micro iDSD. I am using one from Orico. Some PC these days also have built-in BC1.2 complied USB ports as well.


 
 Can you post a picture? Do you connect both the Micro and the computer to the hub?


----------



## ClieOS

the walrus said:


> Can you post a picture? Do you connect both the Micro and the computer to the hub?


 
  
 This is the Orico USB hub I am using, there are other cheaper version on eBay if you search 'orico bc1.2', or just 'bc1.2 usb hub' - but be sure it is one of those that comes with its own AC adapter.
  






 
  
 There isn't any special way to connect it - just use it like a regular USB hub. The only different between a regular USB hub and a BC1.2 USB hub is that a BC1.2 USB hub will have enough power to allow micro iDSD to be used and charged at the same time, even in turbo mode.
  
 p/s: if you want something fancier, there is also the iFi iUSB3.0


----------



## gr8soundz

the walrus said:


> Is there a way to connect the Micro to the computer for playback and a powered USB source for charging at the same time?


 


clieos said:


> The solution is to have a BC1.2 complied USB hub between the PC and micro iDSD. I am using one from Orico. Some PC these days also have built-in BC1.2 complied USB ports as well.


 
  
 Hub is the best solution if a bit more cumbersome.
  
 I've tried this cable and it worked but you'll need a matching barrel tip power source (haven't tried the iPower but might be a good choice):
  




  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D84L5IQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
  
 https://goo.gl/RoZTX3


----------



## The Walrus

gr8soundz said:


> Hub is the best solution if a bit more cumbersome.
> 
> I've tried this cable and it worked but you'll need a matching barrel tip power source (haven't tried the iPower but might be a good choice):
> 
> ...


 
 I found this on eBay. If you use the adapter I posted (a few posts back) you can use a micro UBS charger or use two USB ports of your computer: One for playback, one for charging.


----------



## gr8soundz

I have a similar dual usb adapter too. Comes down to preference.
  
 Unlike the dual usb, the Mikrotik can send power through either end meaning I can still charge the Micro over usb. I can still turn the Micro on first to use battery power if trying to reduce noise over usb. Only used the adapter to "inject" power for recharging my Micro when my PC was off and unable to charge it (didn't like using PC standby just to finish charging).
  
 Of course, if your PC's usb ports still provide power when its completely off, the adapter I posted may not be needed.


----------



## The Walrus

gr8soundz said:


> I have a similar dual usb adapter too. Comes down to preference.
> 
> Unlike the dual usb, the Mikrotik can send power through either end meaning I can still charge the Micro over usb. I can still turn the Micro on first to use battery power if trying to reduce noise over usb. Only used the adapter to "inject" power for recharging my Micro when my PC was off and unable to charge it (didn't like using PC standby just to finish charging).
> 
> Of course, if your PC's usb ports still provide power when its completely off, the adapter I posted may not be needed.


 
 Hmm, cool. That means that when I am using my Sony A10 as the source, I can charge both the DAP and the Micro while playback, but I will need a matching barrel tip power source as you said. Man, if only Micro had two separate ports for data and charging...


----------



## gr8soundz

the walrus said:


> Hmm, cool. That means that when I am using my Sony A10 as the source, I can charge both the DAP and the Micro while playback, but I will need a matching barrel tip power source as you said. Man, if only Micro had two separate ports for data and charging...


 
  
 Don't think that will work. The adapter (like any regular usb extender) carries data and power over the usb ends but (just tested it to be sure) the barrel end only sends power to the female usb port.


----------



## ClieOS

gr8soundz said:


> Hub is the best solution if a bit more cumbersome.
> 
> I've tried this cable and it worked but you'll need a matching barrel tip power source (haven't tried the iPower but might be a good choice):
> 
> ...




The potential issue with power injecter cable is that it won't allow micro iDSD to sense whether the power source is BC1.2 compatible or not, so it might only draw up to 500mA ( the normal usb limit) instead of the 1.5A that a BC1.5 power source is capable of. That means the micro iDSD will still drain the battery in turbo mode.


----------



## gr8soundz

True, but at least it can give the Micro a reliable/constant supply of power even if its only 500mA (fine for overnight charging). Otherwise, since there's no battery meter, its a guess as to how much power its receiving or how much is left vs. how fast its recharging. Add in the firmware version, usb spec on the other end, and mode settings, and it becomes even more of a guessing game while in use.
  
 Even at 1.5A, I think the battery will still drain at a faster rate than it recharges. IFi posted a couple pages back that at 1.5A it takes 12hrs to charge the Micro when turbo is used vs 6hrs in eco/normal.


----------



## ClieOS

Yes, it is fine if you stick to eco mode or have to charge when portable. But there is no reason to settle for less on desktop rig.

No, iFi already commented that battery won't be drained with a BC1.2 power source even in turbo mode, as it only uses 1.5A of power (hence the slow charging).


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> Hub is the best solution if a bit more cumbersome.
> 
> I've tried this cable and it worked but you'll need a matching barrel tip power source (haven't tried the iPower but might be a good choice):
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please note that these adapter cables generally do not provide fast charging. Only in eco mode can the iDSD micro operate indefinitely on a standard USB Port.
  
 The BC1.2 specifications includes specific handshakes between device and USB port to let the device know that fast charge is available.
  
 As a BC1.2 compliant device the iDSD micro will draw more than 0.5A only if a USB Port with fast charging capability is detected.
  
 A BC1.2 compliant USB hub is an effective (and cost effective) solution, especially if combined with a low noise 5V adapter, instead of the stock unit.
  
 An iUSB 3 would be the very "posh" way of doing this, though this does more than just allowing "Fast Charge".


----------



## DomieMic65

Can you please post some links with BC1.2 compliant USB hubs? 
Thnx!!! 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## technobear

domiemic65 said:


> Can you please post some links with BC1.2 compliant USB hubs?
> Thnx!!!




http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=BC1.2+compliant+USB+hubs&x=14&y=18

:rolleyes:


----------



## gr8soundz

Apologies for any of my posts with inaccuracies. Not trying to steer any one the wrong way; only posting what I've tried and what I can remember from earlier discussions.
  
 The Micro wouldn't be so enigmatic if it came with a better manual instead of a pamphlet.


----------



## Dixter

Today I was trying to dial in a new set of CIEMs ( Custom Art EI.xx. ) that have a super super bottom end bass sound signature....  
  
 And while testing out the setup I was using the Iphone 6 plus with the Onkyo HD app...   plugged into the idsd micro... (latest FW 5.0A) 
  
 What I noticed and can't recall ever seeing this before was that the Onkyo HD app could tell when it was delivering the music to the DSD DAC
 of the idsd micro because it was converting redbook mucic files to 2X DSD output in realtime... and they sounded fantastic....  it surprised me at first and I confirmed 
 it simply by unplugging the iphone from the idsd port and sure enough the Onkyo app flipped into PCM mode..  plug it back in and it flipped into DSD convert mode..
  
 So now I'm getting some serious dynamic range coming from the Iphone 6 + > Onkyo HD App > idsd micro > Custom Art EI.xx,   (stock earphone cable)
  
 The bottom end is just a little too bloated still.... I switch out the stock cable for the Linum Bax earphone cable....   holly molly.... the bottom end tightened up, the sound stage went to 3D
 and I'm in hog heaven....  
  
 wow...  this setup is just fantastic....   and its portable too...


----------



## The Walrus

dixter said:


> Today I was trying to dial in a new set of CIEMs ( Custom Art EI.xx. ) that have a super super bottom end bass sound signature....
> 
> And while testing out the setup I was using the Iphone 6 plus with the Onkyo HD app...   plugged into the idsd micro... (latest FW 5.0A)
> 
> ...


 
 SInce Onkyo HD App cannot add any information that is not in the original track, it is impossible to change the dynamic range.


----------



## Dixter

yes Walrus... you are correct....  I should have said the sound signature changed with the conversion...   sorry if I implied other wise...
  
 Still makes redbook sound much much better...  at least to me it does..


----------



## drabbish

running tidal off my mac direct to the micro is amazing with all my headphones,


----------



## Maconi

My setup is currently an Audeze EL-8 + Oppo HA-2. The HA-2 is on Low Gain + Bass Boost (comfortable volume is around 2, max is 5).
  
 I've had my eye on the iDSD Micro, but would I actually see any improvement vs the HA-2 (since I'm barely using half the volume on Low Gain as it is)?


----------



## wildlife2011

Guys I have a question. I have this dac/amp for months and been using it in Normal Power mode and just recently I use the Turbo mode. When using normal power mode the device can play continuously without draining the battery. I use the usb input (plugged to my laptop before turning it on so it doesn't use the device own battery.) But when I switched to turbo mode after several hours of usage the red led blinks and the device turned off. Is this normal?


----------



## ClieOS

wildlife2011 said:


> Guys I have a question. I have this dac/amp for months and been using it in Normal Power mode and just recently I use the Turbo mode. When using normal power mode the device can play continuously without draining the battery. I use the usb input (plugged to my laptop before turning it on so it doesn't use the device own battery.) But when I switched to turbo mode after several hours of usage the red led blinks and the device turned off. Is this normal?


 
  
 Perfectly normal.
  
 If you want the whole detail, just search this thread as it has been discussed many times in this thread. The short version is - turbo mode eats up too much power that most USB port isn't able to supply in full, so battery power will be drew at the same time. To avoid this, use an USB hub that is BC1.2 compatible as it will supply enough power to micro iDSD to stop it from draining the battery even in turbo mode.


----------



## Maxpain

Hey folks, I am thinking of upgrading my headphones and I can't decide if I am going to buy new headphones or active speakers to connect to my micro. My price range is between 500 and 1000 euros. Do you think that the micro would play well with active speakers? Or for that amount of money I would be getting far better resaults with a headphone rig?
  
 In the end is the micro designed to play equally good with speakers and headphones?
  
 Thanks for any help


----------



## Brooko

I use mine for both. It's wonderful with the JBL LSR 305s & sublime for both the HD600's and T1.
  
 I haven't really listened to my NFB-12 or LD MKIV since I got it.


----------



## earwaxxer

maxpain said:


> Hey folks, I am thinking of upgrading my headphones and I can't decide if I am going to buy new headphones or active speakers to connect to my micro. My price range is between 500 and 1000 euros. Do you think that the micro would play well with active speakers? Or for that amount of money I would be getting far better resaults with a headphone rig?
> 
> In the end is the micro designed to play equally good with speakers and headphones?
> 
> Thanks for any help


 
 Hi Max - for the 500 to 1000 euros I would go for the iTube. I found it to be a significant upgrade to the iDSD micro preamp (assuming you are using the iDSD preamp for the headphones).
  
 Re. Dixter post above about DSD upsampled redbook - I have heard that 'improvement' in sound with the DSD upsample with my iDSD NANO. I didnt hear it with the Micro. If anything it sounded noticeably more restricted and unnatural vs. the native redbook. Interesting observation though.


----------



## The Walrus

maxpain said:


> Hey folks, I am thinking of upgrading my headphones and I can't decide if I am going to buy new headphones or active speakers to connect to my micro. My price range is between 500 and 1000 euros. Do you think that the micro would play well with active speakers? Or for that amount of money I would be getting far better resaults with a headphone rig?
> 
> In the end is the micro designed to play equally good with speakers and headphones?
> 
> Thanks for any help


 
 If you are going to use active speakers, I'd buy a decently priced 2.0, analog power amp and use Micro's line-out. 
 Micro is a headphone amp and is not designed to power active speakers. All you need is something like this: 
 http://www.amazon.com/Insignia-200W-2-0-Ch-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B00N6DZYXQ
 (Don't let the low price discourage you.) If you want active speakers, go for it. Your price range isn't the limiting factor.


----------



## ClieOS

the walrus said:


> If you are going to use active speakers, I'd buy a decently priced 2.0, analog power amp and use Micro's line-out.
> Micro is a headphone amp and is not designed to power active speakers. All you need is something like this:
> http://www.amazon.com/Insignia-200W-2-0-Ch-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B00N6DZYXQ
> (Don't let the low price discourage you.) If you want active speakers, go for it. Your price range isn't the limiting factor.


 
  
 Actually I would suggest the micro iDAC2 instead, it is going to be used as non-portable source. The DAC section of micro iDAC2 and micro iDSD are very similar and so there won't be any lost of features and SQ.
  
 Also, @Maxpain is referring to 'active' speaker - so it is self-powered and doesn't require an extra speaker amp.


----------



## The Walrus

clieos said:


> Also, @Maxpain is referring to 'active' speaker - so it is self-powered and doesn't require an extra speaker amp.


 

 Oh, missed that part,sorry!


----------



## deanorthk

I've had the chance to test quite deeply a ifi nano, and urgll, disliked it totally. it was liveless, too flat.
 But i'm really curious to hear the micro, really.


----------



## audiotweaker

the walrus said:


> Micro is a headphone amp and is not designed to power active speakers.


 
  
 What?  The iDSD Micro powers *active* speakers just fine in preamp mode.  I do this every day with my unit.


----------



## Koolpep

audiotweaker said:


> What?  The iDSD Micro powers *active* speakers just fine in preamp mode.  I do this every day with my unit.


 
  
 Indeed, from the manual:
  
*12. Line Direct/Preamplifier Mode *
*Direct: *fixed RCA output (bypass, FULL volume)
*Preamplifier: *the iDSD functions as a DAC/preamplifier. The volume control is now enabled for the RCA line output and when used in conjunction with the Power Mode offers gain of:

  Eco = 0 dB Normal/Turbo = 9dB
_Tip: Only make the selection with the unit powered off. _



  
 It has a dedicated switch close to the RCA output to switch between direct/pre-amp.
  
 EDIT: it even changes the XBass and 3D effect patterns when used as pre-amp as it uses a different set for speakers than for headphones. So clearly it was designed both ways.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Brooko

Like I posted previously - brilliant with the JBL LSR 305's. And the 3D is definitely different (tuned for speakers) and does add a very different ambience.


----------



## Maxpain

Thank you all for your feedback on the subject! I was reffering to the use of micro only as a dac with powered (active) speakers. I know that it is possible but because the micro seems to have been desighned for headphones and because I intend to spend a good amound of money on this I was asking if I could get the same level quality from speakers and headphones at this price (around 1000 euros).


----------



## sandalaudio

maxpain said:


> Thank you all for your feedback on the subject! I was reffering to the use of micro only as a dac with powered (active) speakers. I know that it is possible but because the micro seems to have been desighned for headphones and because I intend to spend a good amound of money on this I was asking if I could get the same level quality from speakers and headphones at this price (around 1000 euros).


 
  
 I use it exactly for this purpose, and they both sound great. I have my headphones connected to the front headphone jack, and a big power amp for speakers connected to the rear RCA out. They both sound amazing and the arrangement is practical. It's a great piece of kit to have around because you can use it for all sort of applications.


----------



## hennezzy

just upgraded my mac to 10.11 el capitan, My micro idsd is not working anymore. Is there a fix?


----------



## JootecFromMars

hennezzy said:


> just upgraded my mac to 10.11 el capitan, My micro idsd is not working anymore. Is there a fix?


 
 I had no problem. Are you sure you have it selected in the sound preferences?


----------



## BrainFood

maxpain said:


> Do you think that the micro would play well with active speakers?


 

  
  
 Quote:


clieos said:


> Actually I would suggest the micro iDAC2 instead


 
  
 For cheapish speakers, perhaps, but for better gear the 3.5mm output isn't that ideal.  Not sure the IDAC2 is designed to be used other than as a pure dac via its RCA output, with its volume control for headphones plugged in.
  
 I've yet to audition it though, so feel free to correct.


----------



## ClieOS

brainfood said:


> For cheapish speakers, perhaps, but for better gear the 3.5mm output isn't that ideal.  Not sure the IDAC2 is designed to be used other than as a pure dac via its RCA output, with its volume control for headphones plugged in.
> 
> I've yet to audition it though, so feel free to correct.


 
  
 First of, there is no electrical difference between RCA connector and 3.5mm stereo jack, so whether the speaker is cheap or not has nothing to do with which connector it uses.
  
 Secondly, most active speaker have their own volume control - which is what you should use for volume control for best SQ and therefore the fixed line-out on iDAC2's RCA is just fine and in fact perfect for that purpose. You only want to use micro iDSD in preamp mode when it is connected to a power amp (and then to a passive speaker) that doesn't have its own volume control. If you have an active speaker with volume control and still use iDSD as preamp, then dynamic range will likely suffer. This is why there are both line-out and preamp-out on iDSD, so the formal can be used with active speaker while the later can be used with power amp. With iDAC2, the preamp is left out because it is mainly designed to be used in a PC rig where active speaker is most likely what people will be using.


----------



## Dixter

didn't know the idsd micro would drive out the front and back at the same time....  I allways thought it might be interesting to listen to headphones with a nice subwoofer ..


----------



## BrainFood

clieos said:


> First of, there is no electrical difference between RCA connector and 3.5mm stereo jack, so whether the speaker is cheap or not has nothing to do with which connector it uses.
> 
> Secondly, most active speaker have their own volume control - which is what you should use for volume control for best SQ and therefore the fixed line-out on iDAC2's RCA is just fine and in fact perfect for that purpose.


 
  
 Ahh, actives with their own volume control.   Many, such as my JBL LSR6328P's, don't have it.
  
 Would have thought the 3.5mm Zout might differ a bit but anyway,


----------



## iFi audio

jootecfrommars said:


> I had no problem. Are you sure you have it selected in the sound preferences?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes we run El Capitan on MBP.  No issues but 'Sound Preferences' does keep defaulting back to the MBP itself.
  
 If this does not solve the 'no sound' issue, then you may need to roll back to Yosemite. Or open an iFi Support Ticket and ask the techies.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

brooko said:


> Like I posted previously - brilliant with the JBL LSR 305's. And the 3D is definitely different (tuned for speakers) and does add a very different ambience.


 
  
 Correct.
  
 There is 3D for Headphones and 3D for Speakers. The micro iDSD automatically defaults depending upon which is connected.
  
 Google 'Alan Blumlein' fascinating piece of history.


----------



## DougD

brainfood said:


> Ahh, actives with their own volume control.   Many, such as my JBL LSR6328P's, don't have it.


 
  
 The Schiit SYS for $49 is designed to fill this need .... it's a passive preamp with a volume control and the ability to switch between two sets of inputs. I use one to between my Micro iDSD and my active speakers, works brilliantly. Emotiva also has a product in this niche.


----------



## ClieOS

brainfood said:


> ... Would have thought the 3.5mm Zout might differ a bit but anyway,


 
  
 Typically you will want the output impedance to be 10 times smaller than the input impedance - consider that active speaker usually has input impedance that is at least a few thousands ohm, the difference between line-out (which is usually a few hundreds ohm) and the 3.5mm jack (which is a few ohm for most portable source, or under 1 ohm for most iFi's gear) shouldn't really make any difference to the speaker as they both will act as like pure voltage source.


----------



## goodyfresh

So, question guys.  What's with the weird USB input that isn't USB B, Micro, or anything else standard like that on the iDSD?  It's not even COMPATIBLE WITH iFi'S OWN CABLES like the Gemini and Mercury!  So how the heck is one supposed to get an aftermarket cable that is compatible?????  Is it a ploy to make people buy the iPurifier2?


----------



## Koolpep

goodyfresh said:


> So, question guys.  What's with the weird USB input that isn't USB B, Micro, or anything else standard like that on the iDSD?  It's not even COMPATIBLE WITH iFi'S OWN CABLES like the Gemini and Mercury!  So how the heck is one supposed to get an aftermarket cable that is compatible?????  Is it a ploy to make people buy the iPurifier2?


 

  

 The iDSD comes with 1 cable to connect to your PC with normal USB and 2 additional adapters in case you need something else. Can't get better than that my friend. And the connector is what it is to connect directly to Apples CCK - so direct connection from your iPhone/iPod touch, pretty awesome.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## coastal1

I'm confused about what is meant by: "the connector is what is to connect directly to Apples CCK." Why not plug Apple's CCK directly into the Micro?



koolpep said:


> The iDSD comes with 1 cable to connect to your PC with normal USB and 2 additional adapters in case you need something else. Can't get better than that my friend. And the connector is what it is to connect directly to Apples CCK - so direct connection from your iPhone/iPod touch, pretty awesome.
> 
> Cheers,
> K


----------



## Koolpep

coastal1 said:


> I'm confused about what is meant by: "the connector is what is to connect directly to Apples CCK." Why not plug Apple's CCK directly into the Micro?




My apologies. Language barrier. That's what I meant. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## coastal1

But the CCK goes into the same USB that you would use to connect a PC



koolpep said:


> My apologies. Language barrier. That's what I meant.
> 
> Cheers,
> K


----------



## technobear

The USB connection on the iDSD is a perfectly standard USB A male.

It was done that way because the Apple CCK is terminated with a USB A female.

In the box with the iDSD, you will find a USB A female to USB A male cable (the blue one) for connecting to a PC, and two USB A female to USB B female adaptors (one solid and one with a short lead) for using other USB A to B cables.


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> Hey folks, I am thinking of upgrading my headphones and I can't decide if I am going to buy new headphones or active speakers to connect to my micro. My price range is between 500 and 1000 euros. Do you think that the micro would play well with active speakers? Or for that amount of money I would be getting far better resaults with a headphone rig?
> 
> In the end is the micro designed to play equally good with speakers and headphones?
> 
> Thanks for any help


 
  
 The iFi iDSD micro can be set to have a preamplifier output which includes 3D-Sound for speakers and X-Bass. 
  
 In order to minimize noise the active speaker should have adjustable input sensitivity and be able to be set to offer maximum output at around 5V Input (iDSD micro in normal mode). 
  
 There is no muting on the line output of the iDSD micro if a headphone is connected, it is important that your active speakers will not "load down" the line output if turned off, otherwise the headphone signal will distorted.
  
 Alternatively using the iTube as line controller for active speakers may be preferred, it is the preferred option of our chief designer to run his office system like this, as he uses both headphones and speakers.


----------



## sandalaudio

brainfood said:


> Ahh, actives with their own volume control.   Many, such as my JBL LSR6328P's, don't have it.
> 
> Would have thought the 3.5mm Zout might differ a bit but anyway,


 
  
 The back RCA connectors have an output impedance set to around 200 ohms, so it will be more suitable for feeding active speakers compared to using the headphone out.
  
 Having too low output impedance on the line output is not ideal for consumer gear, so most CD players etc tend to set 100 ohms as a typical output impedance. It basically act as a voltage divider to minimize output variations and avoid inadvertent sudden current dumps (like thumps and pops, oscillation) that could fry some poorly designed amps or active speakers. It happens more often than most realize, especially when people try to use smartphone headphone out set to max volume to act as an ad-hoc line out.
  
 200 ohms impedance remain regardless of if the RCA output is set to fixed or variable, so I use the variable output to send to my Genelec or ADAM speakers.
 Most actives don't have a volume control except for a trimmer at the back, so iDSD is very handy as an on the go DAC+preamp+monitor controller.
  
 Some bigger studio actives have 600 ohm termination end-to-end, so you will get some level matching and damping factor issues (so might be better to pass through a console), but most modern compact active speakers like Genelec has moved to 10k input impedance like consumer gear (nobody has a 20 metre 600 ohm cable running in their bedroom setup), so iDSD should be fine for that.
  
 Having said that, iDSD's line output of 5.8Vp-p (2.0Vrms) is very high (at least the max industry guideline in Japanese standard) so some poorly designed preamps could overload and clip with such a high level signal. Most home gear aim for around 0.5-0.7 Vrms, while pro 600 ohm gear aim for 1.2-1.5 Vrms tops, although most gear have overload headroom.


----------



## goodyfresh

technobear said:


> The USB connection on the iDSD is a perfectly standard USB A male.
> 
> It was done that way because the Apple CCK is terminated with a USB A female.
> 
> In the box with the iDSD, you will find a USB A female to USB A male cable (the blue one) for connecting to a PC, and two USB A female to USB B female adaptors (one solid and one with a short lead) for using other USB A to B cables.


 

 In that case though, why do iFi not separately sell a cable with the termination that is compatible with the iDSD?  The way I feel is that if the cable that comes with the device ever FAILS, I will be screwed. . .there will be nowhere for me to get an AUDIO-QUALITY USB cable, rather than one meant for printers and the like (with poor power-isolation from the digital signal and whatnot) with that type of termination, as every single audio-USB cable on teh market today has either USB-B, USB-Micro, or USB-Mini connectors.


----------



## sandalaudio

goodyfresh said:


> In that case though, why do iFi not separately sell a cable with the termination that is compatible with the iDSD?  The way I feel is that if the cable that comes with the device ever FAILS, I will be screwed. . .there will be nowhere for me to get an AUDIO-QUALITY USB cable, rather than one meant for printers and the like (with poor power-isolation from the digital signal and whatnot) with that type of termination, as every single audio-USB cable on teh market today has either USB-B, USB-Micro, or USB-Mini connectors.


 
  
 I also want iFi to sell a good quality USB cable that fits the micro iDSD, since they sell so many USB power quality related gadgets.
  
 The stock blue cable is pretty solid, but probably not as well built as the iFi Gemini or Mercury cables.
 Using the B to A adaptor thing makes the connection feel wobbly and unreliable.
  
 All the "USB Extension cable" that I've found so far in computer shops are really cheap and suspicious. Some people say expensive USB cable doesn't make any difference, but cheap cables give me all sorts of issues like pop and click noise, unable to detect, or suddenly dropping off.


----------



## gr8soundz

Dude, its just a usb extension cable. ANY similar cable will work. I have a couple of Monster ones that I got on clearance but actually use a shorter Monoprice cable:
 http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13749
  
 If you want an even higher quality cable the Supra ones are also highly regarded:
 http://www.futureshop.co.uk/supra-usb-20-type-a-male-to-type-a-female-cable-1m-p-8649.html?osCsid=focrqk4bh9h8b0nmhagr197fu4


----------



## marcus1

ifi audio said:


> The iFi iDSD micro can be set to have a preamplifier output which includes 3D-Sound for speakers and X-Bass.
> 
> In order to minimize noise the active speaker should have adjustable input sensitivity and be able to be set to offer maximum output at around 5V Input (iDSD micro in normal mode).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does the line out function (not preamp output) also have the 3D-Sound for speakers and X-Bass available or not?  Thanks


----------



## ptolemy2k6

I was listening to some music today and something wierd happened. IDSD crashed a few times (I heard usb sound and it disconnected). I was able to turn it off/back on but i wonder whats wrong. Maybe battery needs rechaging? But, I always had it plugged in USB 3.0 port, has anyone experienced anything like this?


----------



## sandalaudio

gr8soundz said:


> Dude, its just a usb extension cable. ANY similar cable will work. I have a couple of Monster ones that I got on clearance but actually use a shorter Monoprice cable:
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13749
> 
> If you want an even higher quality cable the Supra ones are also highly regarded:
> http://www.futureshop.co.uk/supra-usb-20-type-a-male-to-type-a-female-cable-1m-p-8649.html?osCsid=focrqk4bh9h8b0nmhagr197fu4


 
  
 Thanks. I think that Monoprice one looks good. Certainly much better than what I've found so far.
 I also like the fact that the female end has plastic around it, which makes it less wobbly. I tried the Belkin extension cable, but this keeps cutting out or loses connection.
 http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F3U134/
  
 I actually bought three different budget USB extension cables becuse I needed long flexible one (one USB 3.0 and two USB 2.0), but all of them had some issues while the original blue cable didn't have any. I guess it depends on the USB connection on the computer. On my ASUS motherboard, the ASMedia USB port works fine while Intel USB port drops out every now and then, even if nothing else is connected or drawing current.
  
 The Supra cable looks great. I have the normal A to B Supra cables and they are solid and reliable, but unfortunately our local import distributor doesn't bring in the extension cable.


----------



## gr8soundz

Fortunately I was able to get a couple Monster extenders on clearance. Very high quality cables but a bit long at 7ft:
 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_25007_Monster-Cable-USB-Extension-Cable-DL-USB-HSX-7.html


----------



## Maconi

maconi said:


> My setup is currently an Audeze EL-8 + Oppo HA-2. The HA-2 is on Low Gain + Bass Boost (comfortable volume is around 2, max is 5).
> 
> I've had my eye on the iDSD Micro, but would I actually see any improvement vs the HA-2 (since I'm barely using half the volume on Low Gain as it is)?


 
 Anyone?


----------



## gr8soundz

maconi said:


> Anyone?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch/?search=idsd&resultSortingPreference=recency&byuser=&output=posts&sdate=0&newer=1&type=all&containingthread%5B0%5D=755879&advanced=1


----------



## quodjo105

Hi guys just got my idsd. If I connect my note 5 via otg the led light turns yellow. Is that right?.. Or its supposed to be blue?. I'm using the idsd on battery power. Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

quodjo105 said:


> Hi guys just got my idsd. If I connect my note 5 via otg the led light turns yellow. Is that right?.. Or its supposed to be blue?. I'm using the idsd on battery power. Thanks


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We assume your Droid is USB audio compatible and plays via Note 5> OTG > micro iDSD.
  
 Once you have sound, you can play with the Up/OverSampling options as per your player software.
  
 We use the Sony Walkman (which converts DSD>PCM 176) and UAPP (for Bit-Perfect).
  
 The LEDs refer to the Sampling rate which is in the instruction card.
  
 But make sure you have sound first and then mess with the rest.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## quodjo105

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We assume your Droid is USB audio compatible and plays via Note 5> OTG > micro iDSD.
> 
> ...


thanks for that. I'm definitely getting sound and I'm streaming from tidal at the moment so not sure how to "mess" with settings to see if it's up/oversampling or not.


----------



## technobear

ptolemy2k6 said:


> I was listening to some music today and something wierd happened. IDSD crashed a few times (I heard usb sound and it disconnected). I was able to turn it off/back on but i wonder whats wrong. Maybe battery needs rechaging? But, I always had it plugged in USB 3.0 port, has anyone experienced anything like this?




It's nearly always the cable and mostly the connection into the back of the iDSD.

It could also be electrical disturbance from switching other devices on and off nearby (very nearby).

I've had both these issues. I solved the first one by wrapping tape around the plug until it had a more secure fit.


----------



## DougD

quodjo105 said:


> thanks for that. I'm definitely getting sound and I'm streaming from tidal at the moment so not sure how to "mess" with settings to see if it's up/oversampling or not.


 
  
 Well the yellow LED on the Micro iDSD is telling you that what it is receiving is 176 or 192. If your source file is not natively saved as 172/24 or 192/24, then your signal is being upsampled before it gets to the iDSD.
  
 FLACS etc coded as normal CD Redbook specs (44.1/16) turn the LED green.


----------



## Faber65

earwaxxer said:


> Hi Max - for the 500 to 1000 euros I would go for the iTube. I found it to be a significant upgrade to the iDSD micro preamp (assuming you are using the iDSD preamp for the headphones).
> 
> Re. Dixter post above about DSD upsampled redbook - I have heard that 'improvement' in sound with the DSD upsample with my iDSD NANO. I didnt hear it with the Micro. If anything it sounded noticeably more restricted and unnatural vs. the native redbook. Interesting observation though.




I agree completely on the iTube!


----------



## quodjo105

dougd said:


> Well the yellow LED on the Micro iDSD is telling you that what it is receiving is 176 or 192. If your source file is not natively saved as 172/24 or 192/24, then your signal is being upsampled before it gets to the iDSD.
> 
> FLACS etc coded as normal CD Redbook specs (44.1/16) turn the LED green.


 
 Hi Thanks for that. I manage to sort it by installing and using the UAPP app for both tidal and local folders. Now its showing the correct colour LED light.


----------



## iFi audio

marcus1 said:


> Does the line out function (not preamp output) also have the 3D-Sound for speakers and X-Bass available or not?  Thanks


 
  
 3D Sound and X-bass are part of the preamplifier circuitry - the direct line out is taken before the preamp. So they are not available.
  
 You can see this via our block diagram here: http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/block-diagram-ifi-range-2/


----------



## goodyfresh

ifi audio said:


> 3D Sound and X-bass are part of the preamplifier circuitry - the direct line out is taken before the preamp. So they are not available.
> 
> You can see this via our block diagram here: http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/block-diagram-ifi-range-2/


 
 Too bad!  When I tried the iDSD with the Audioquest Nighthawks, I found that switching on the X-bass gave THE ULTIMATE BASSHEAD EXPERIENCE, guys


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

goodyfresh said:


> Too bad!  When I tried the iDSD with the Audioquest Nighthawks, I found that switching on the X-bass gave THE ULTIMATE BASSHEAD EXPERIENCE, guys


 

 Hey bro. Hows the interactive company stuff...sweet yeah.. I wish ASG would sit down with IFi and FiiO and take some customer care classes


----------



## iFi audio

*Shoutout to Meze Headphones - check 'em out*  

  
  
 If you are in Canada or USA, you might wish to get your ears round these headphones. We use a pair for demo'ing/testing/photo shoots etc and they are darn good. Light, comfortable and fabulous sounding to boot. A no-brainer recommendation by our Skin.
  
 And if anyone is attending the Athens Show this weekend, then you can check em out with iFi and other non-iFi equipment.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/789019/meze-99-classics-tour-reviewers-wanted
  
 Very highly recommended and the Meze team are super duper guys too.


----------



## Amalz

Hi guys,

Need help with choosing cable, I have Samsung S6 and iFi Micro iDSD

Any recmmondtion for good cable with low budget!

Thanks


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

amalz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Need help with choosing cable, I have Samsung S6 and iFi Micro iDSD
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 http://www.amazon.co.jp/AINEX-%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%8D%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9-USB%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF-A%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-B%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-ADV-115/dp/B00H9UHRT6/ref=pd_cp_147_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RAMF04ZJA0GD11ZHXXK
  
  
 and
  
 http://www.amazon.co.jp/iBUFFALO-microB-%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-BSMPC11C01BK/dp/B005WNBLN0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1443844499&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+a+to+b


----------



## Amalz

hawaiibadboy said:


> http://www.amazon.co.jp/AINEX-%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A4%E3%83%8D%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9-USB%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF-A%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-B%E3%82%AA%E3%82%B9-ADV-115/dp/B00H9UHRT6/ref=pd_cp_147_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RAMF04ZJA0GD11ZHXXK
> 
> 
> and
> ...


 
  
 Dose this works? If it works i will order it now
 http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Micro-USB-Adapter-109724/dp/B009Z6A0KA/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448640863&sr=1-3&keywords=Micro+USB+OTG+Adapter
  
 I really like the quality of monoprice ! I


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

amalz said:


> *Dose this works?* If it works i will order it now
> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Micro-USB-Adapter-109724/dp/B009Z6A0KA/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448640863&sr=1-3&keywords=Micro+USB+OTG+Adapter
> 
> I really like the quality of monoprice ! I


 

  
  
 just the buffalo one works fine. I don't know about the one in your pic...another can comment.


----------



## Sound Eq

hawaiibadboy said:


> just the buffalo one works fine. I don't know about the one in your pic...another can comment.


 
 from where can i buy this short otg cable u have, i hope its on ebay as i can buy from amazon as they do not ship to where i live


----------



## Sound Eq

guys can i ask please, how to connect the ifi to my desktop and home amplifier, is it i just i connect an rca from the ifi dsd micro out to the rca input of my home amplifier
  
 the question is what setting should i use in the ifi in that configuaration and specific settings on the ifi


----------



## Faber65

sound eq said:


> guys can i ask please, how to connect the ifi to my desktop and home amplifier, is just i connect an rca from the ifi dsd micro out to the rca input of my home amplifier
> 
> the question is what setting should i use to use the ifi in that configuaration and specific settings on the ifi




Basically yes
Just be sure the setting of the switches is the appropriate one.
Then use it as a DAC.


----------



## Sound Eq

faber65 said:


> Basically yes
> Just be sure the setting of the switches is the appropriate one.
> Then use it as a DAC.


 
 and what are the appropriate settings of the switches for such a configuration please


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

sound eq said:


> from where can i buy this short otg cable u have, i hope its on ebay as i can buy from amazon as they do not ship to where i live


 
http://www.amazon.co.jp/iBUFFALO-microB-%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-BSMPC11C01BK/dp/B005WNBLN0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1443844499&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+a+to+b

   It cost 4 bucks here in Japan. I dunno if they sell this abroad though?


----------



## Faber65

sound eq said:


> and what are the appropriate settings of the switches for such a configuration please




In the bottom there is a switch named "RCA": the mode "Direct" is to use the iDSD as a DAC only.
Then it can be connected to a power amplifier.


----------



## technobear

faber65 said:


> sound eq said:
> 
> 
> > and what are the appropriate settings of the switches for such a configuration please
> ...




Oh no it can't!!! :eek:

If you want to connect it to a power amp then you need 'pre-amp' mode so that you can use the iDSD volume control.

Only use 'direct' mode when connecting to an integrated amp which has its own volume control.

Set the iDSD power switch to 'Eco'.


----------



## Faber65

technobear said:


> Oh no it can't!!! :eek:
> 
> If you want to connect it to a power amp then you need 'pre-amp' mode so that you can use the iDSD volume control.
> 
> ...




Sorry, you are right, it's the opposite as I confused power with integrated amp.
So basically use "direct" mode with the integrated amplifier and the "preamplifier" mode (in Eco) with the power amp.


----------



## Sound Eq

technobear said:


> Oh no it can't!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i want to connect it to my yamaha rx v357 which is conntced to my home floor speakers
  
 kindly can you again tell me what mode shall i select for it as i am not sure anymore what i shall use direct or preamp


----------



## jhwalker

sound eq said:


> i want to connect it to my yamaha rx v357 which is conntced to my home floor speakers
> 
> kindly can you again tell me what mode shall i select for it as i am not sure anymore what i shall use direct or preamp


 

 If you will be using the volume control on the Yamaha RX V357, set the iDSD Output to "Direct" - this will put the iDSD in "line out" mode, and will be the best setting if you are using the volume control on the Yamaha.
  
 If you want to use the volume control of the iDSD and leave the Yamaha set to a fixed volume, set the iDSD to "Preamplifier" - this will allow the volume to be controlled from the iDSD.
  
 In general, I would think you'd want to set the iDSD to "Direct" and control the volume via the Yamaha.


----------



## Sound Eq

jhwalker said:


> If you will be using the volume control on the Yamaha RX V357, set the iDSD Output to "Direct" - this will put the iDSD in "line out" mode, and will be the best setting if you are using the volume control on the Yamaha.
> 
> If you want to use the volume control of the iDSD and leave the Yamaha set to a fixed volume, set the iDSD to "Preamplifier" - this will allow the volume to be controlled from the iDSD.
> 
> In general, I would think you'd want to set the iDSD to "Direct" and control the volume via the Yamaha.


 
 thanks so much, it was recommended to use echo mode may as i ask why please


----------



## jhwalker

sound eq said:


> thanks so much, it was recommended to use echo mode may as i ask why please


 

 If you are using "Direct" mode, it doesn't matter - the volume is fixed, so whatever you choose for "Power Mode" is irrelevant.
  
 If you are using "Preamplifier" mode, Eco is normal volume, and Normal or Turbo yields a 9db volume boost.


----------



## knorris908

Well, it's official....
  
 Come the 4th I will finally be able to A/B my iDSD/iCAN stack between my Sennheiser HD-650s and the BeyerDynamic T1 2nd gen. Then on the 8th the winner will challenge the newly-arrived HD-800.  I'm not going to say which is the better can for everyone, but I will be looking to hear which has the best synergy with the iDSD Micro/iCAN Micro or iDSD Micro alone.  I just can't wrap my head around anything sounding THAT MUCH better...  Guess we'll see?
  
 EDIT:  Before anyone wonders, "Yes." I will be performing burn-ins and will evaluate as mileage accumulates on both sets of the phones.
  
 EDIT-EDIT:  I also intend to pit all headphones against each other with my Schiit ASGARD 2 and even FIIO e17 (Sorry, don't have a 9K or 12 at the moment)  I will try to see how they perform straight out of the DX90, as well as for he heck of it; iPhone 4S, 5, iPad (Gen1 & Airs)Sony Walkmans, Samsung P2, & ASTRO gaming surround system...  Not meant for this level of audiophile, but why not?


----------



## Sound Eq

hawaiibadboy said:


> http://www.amazon.co.jp/iBUFFALO-microB-%E5%A4%89%E6%8F%9B%E3%82%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%97%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-BSMPC11C01BK/dp/B005WNBLN0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1443844499&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+a+to+b
> 
> It cost 4 bucks here in Japan. I dunno if they sell this abroad though?


 
 can't find it on ebay, do u happen to know a site that sells similar length that ships internationally as amazon does not work deliver here


----------



## Maconi

So say my headphones (Audeze EL-8C) have a good listening volume at around ~200-300mW with my current AMP/DAC. Is there someway I could take advantage of the ~4W the iFi iDSD Micro gives, or would I be stuck using Eco mode and not really getting any benefit from it? Is there some EQ trick to take advantage of the extra power to squeeze out extra details/bass (without ruining the overall sound)?


----------



## gr8soundz

maconi said:


> So say my headphones (Audeze EL-8C) have a good listening volume at around ~200-300mW with my current AMP/DAC. Is there someway I could take advantage of the ~4W the iFi iDSD Micro gives, or would I be stuck using Eco mode and not really getting any benefit from it? Is there some EQ trick to take advantage of the extra power to squeeze out extra details/bass (without ruining the overall sound)?


 
  
 Eco is best for iems and/or for saving battery power if your headphones are sensitive enough. Turbo is only for very hard to drive headphones like the Hifiman HE-6.
  
 I use normal for my Oppo PM-3 (similar specs to the el-8c). Think the extra power fills out the mids and low end well.
  
 Just be sure to turn the volume down before switching.


----------



## Koolpep

maconi said:


> So say my headphones (Audeze EL-8C) have a good listening volume at around ~200-300mW with my current AMP/DAC. Is there someway I could take advantage of the ~4W the iFi iDSD Micro gives, or would I be stuck using Eco mode and not really getting any benefit from it? Is there some EQ trick to take advantage of the extra power to squeeze out extra details/bass (without ruining the overall sound)?


 

 You can use the IEM match switch to a certain extend. While ifi says it's not to be used in Turbo mode on the highest setting, you can increase the resistance at least one notch. To my ears the extra power usually gives a more pleasant low volume listening experience. 
  
 So turbo mode with IEM match on middle setting (High sensitivity) works quite well to get over the initial imbalance hump 
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## LoryWiv

In prior posts within this thread, iFi notes it's amp. performs closer to "Class A" above volume knob setting of 12, and recommends adjusting power settings to permit running between 12 and 3. After some experimenting I agree this produces best sound quality, but of course YMMV.


----------



## technobear

lorywiv said:


> In prior posts within this thread, iFi notes it's amp. performs closer to "Class A" above volume knob setting of 12, and recommends adjusting power settings to permit running between 12 and 3. After some experimenting I agree this produces best sound quality, but of course YMMV.




I think you need to read those posts again :rolleyes:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4035#post_11726137

and

http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4050#post_11727898


----------



## LoryWiv

Point taken, *technobear*. I think I misremembered the discussion around channel imbalance referenced here and misapplied it to amplifier secton...proving that in my case, a (very) little knowledge can be dangerous. Appreciate your feedback.


----------



## Maconi

koolpep said:


> You can use the IEM match switch to a certain extend. While ifi says it's not to be used in Turbo mode on the highest setting, you can increase the resistance at least one notch. To my ears the extra power usually gives a more pleasant low volume listening experience.
> 
> So turbo mode with IEM match on middle setting (High sensitivity) works quite well to get over the initial imbalance hump
> 
> ...


 
 Good to know (didn't know you could use IEMatch to keep the dB down while increasing the current), although opinion on doing so seems conflicting. Could you accomplish the same goal with a simple -dB Preamp EQ, or is that an improper way to go about it?


----------



## 227qed

*


dsnyder said:



			I unboxed my ifi micro iDSD a few days ago also and took a few photos of the included adapters while I was waiting for that initial 24 hour charge to complete.  I'm now about 40 hours into my 100+ hour burn-in process, but I thought I'd take a few minutes to share the box contents.  T[COLOR=222222]he ifi micro iDSD box contains [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]a lot[/COLOR][COLOR=222222] of adapters...eight to be precise![/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]There are two female USB Type-A to male Type-A cables--this small black one and a larger, heavier blue one (not pictured because I was using it for the crucial initial 24 hours of charging)  These are for charging the on-board 4800mAh battery and connecting the micro iDSD to a mobile device via an OTG adapter ([COLOR=1155CC]Android[/COLOR]) or Camera Connection Kit (iOS).  In this mode, your smartphone acts as a digital USB transport ([COLOR=1155CC]special software required[/COLOR]) for ultra high quality portable listening.  My OTG cable fits in the micro iDSD's unusual recessed male Type-A connection port, so I could strap this fairly heavy monster to my Samsung Galaxy Note II for high-end portable listening if I wished without having to use these cables.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




[/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]There's a pair of inexpensive looking RCA cables and a gold 1/8" female to 1/4" male TRS adapter (the micro iDSD is equipped with a full-sized 1/4" headphone jack--good choice in my opinion for a premium headphone product)  Thankfully, the analog RCA outputs on the micro protrude more than those on the nano making it possible to use a wider range of audiophile interconnects (some will still be excluded because the jacks are still very close together):[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



[/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222]There are two female USB Type-A to female Type-B adapters...one is "zero length", and the other is rather short.  These are critical as they are required to connect the micro iDSD's very odd recessed male Type-A USB input to a laptop or computer using standard audiophile grade USB cables like the ifi Gemini or Audioquest Diamond (terminated with male Type-B USB connectors on the DAC end).  I'm a little disappointed that the provided adapters do not incorporate gold plated connectors and are apparently not terminated with the same technology and care as the ifi Gemini/Mercury cables.  I'm told that these adapters do not impact sound quality, but it's something that's rather difficult for an audiophile to accept.  I also don't like seeing bits with a "RadioShack" look and feel in my otherwise uncompromising signal path, even if there is an on-board iPurifier to clean things up.  I would have happily paid $50 more for the ifi micro iDSD package if it included a "Gemini" quality adapter for this type of connection:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



[/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222]Next are bits to plug into the 1/8" TRS analog input.  The short male-to-male cable is for connecting the analog headphone output of an iPod or similar such device.  In this mode, the micro just acts like a powerful analog headphone amplifier.  My understanding is that when connected thusly, the digital circuitry is powered down.  The other small plug is a TOSLINK S/PDIF adapter.  It enables 1/8" input to perform double-duty as an optical S/PDIF input...perhaps intended for use by someone who wants to use their micro iDSD with an Xbox for massive overkill gaming sound?:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



[/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]Finally, there are stick-on rubber feet for desk installation and a protective rubber sheet and bands for strapping the micro iDSD to an iPod or smartphone for "portable" listening (an unwieldy bundle in my opinion--I think I'll continue to use my nano iDSD for on-the-go listening):[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



[/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]​[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]There's also a black velvet pull-tie case with the "ifi" logo (similar to the one that comes with the nano).  As you may have seen on the head-fi forums, early adopters also receive a (size Large) T-shirt, a laptop decal, and [COLOR=FF0000]red [/COLOR]ink used for the serial number on the micro iDSD plus an invitation to join the iClub.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]I listened to the micro iDSD a little right after it finished the 24-hour charge, and t[COLOR=222222]he soundstage, mids, and highs were not there yet, which is similar to my experience with both of our nano iDSDs when fresh out of the box (rather dark sounding); I'm not worried.  Bass is deep, detailed, and better controlled than the nano already, so I can tell it's going to be [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]amazing[/COLOR][COLOR=222222] after a hundred or so hours of burn-in.  I suspect that improvements due to burn-in may come slightly slower with the micro than the nano because of all of the extra gadgetry, but time will tell.  Cheers and happy listening![/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222][COLOR=222222]-- David[/COLOR][/COLOR]
		
Click to expand...



I would like to get this for massive overkill on my xbox one and ps4 audio outputs. BUT it's so hard to find technical data on the audio output formats of the consoles. They both have the square spdif connectors.

 So can I run a the square spdif from the console through a 3.5mm adapter to the 3.5mm input on the idsd micro then output to my headphones? 

I have ha-SZ200s and would like some earth shattering bass for explosions and such. I do listen to music while I game so a setup described above would be well worth it too me since the sz2ks need a lot of power for the 55mm drivers to really thump. *


----------



## marcus1

I'm using the Micro as a DAC only, using the direct mode and bypassing the Micro's volume control for my home stereo. 
Great sound but I'm wondering what DAC I would have to buy to better it? Any opinions or actual comparisons been done?

Thanks


----------



## kbuzz

marcus1 said:


> I'm using the Micro as a DAC only, using the direct mode and bypassing the Micro's volume control for my home stereo.
> Great sound but I'm wondering what DAC I would have to buy to better it? Any opinions or actual comparisons been done?
> 
> Thanks




Same here ......the word Hugo or major keeps coming up. .....very curious if it's 1K mo better then the ifi-which sounds great. Not just for the money but exceptional and versatile.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

kbuzz said:


> Same here ......the word Hugo or major keeps coming up. .....*very curious if it's 1K mo better then the ifi-which sounds great*. Not just for the money but exceptional and versatile.


 
  No.
 I coulda bought both that you mentioned and did not. We are in placebo range. If sending the extra convinces you it gets you extra then it's worth it. Technically speaking there is no reason to think you will hear any difference that a numerical value put in dollars could be attached to.


----------



## ClieOS

kbuzz said:


> Same here ......the word Hugo or major keeps coming up. .....very curious if it's 1K mo better then the ifi-which sounds great. Not just for the money but exceptional and versatile.


 
  
 I have both micro iDSD and Mojo with me right now and I have listened to Hugo carefully in the past. If you are looking for either of the Chord as upgrade then I'll advise you to keep your iDSD. Hogo is actually a fairly even match for iDSD, though the two have very different presentation where Hugo is much more euphony and musical. Mojo is very close to them, though I will consider it a very tiny step down overall.


----------



## Maconi

First, I'm a Power (Watt/Volt/whatever) believer now. I've been using the HA-2 and just got my iFi iDSD Micro in. If I attempted to EQ much at all with the HA-2 I'd get clipping (for instance amping up 30hz and below for bass) with my Audeze EL-8C (200mW to 4W optimum power, 15W max/peak allowed). Plugged in the Micro, same deal (on Eco).
  
 However, if I crank it up to Turbo and turn the Preamp to -40 dB (volume knob @ around 12 o'clock, I can hit 3 o'clock with -55 dB but then I get hissing instead of a black background) the headphones sing! I can get close to the same affect by putting the HA-2 on High Gain and cranking the volume knob as far as it goes, but it still doesn't sound as deep/wide as the Micro.
  
 -40dB seems excessive but Turbo really does open the headphones up (and according to the specs I'm still well within the "optimal range" since I think I can only get ~2W out of Turbo @ 30Ohm right?). Meaning @ 12 o'clock (half Turbo volume) I'm only pulling ~1W (is that how it works)?
  

  
  

  
  
 Second, I had to do a lot of EQ with my HA-2 to get the sound where I wanted it, and the imaging/soundstage wasn't great. The Micro (stock) sounds almost like my HA-2 EQ'ed. Always a plus.
  
 This is all within the first 15 minutes (after letting it charge up). I hear it gets better with burn-in so we'll see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was also considering trying out the Mojo but if power (plus EQ) opens these up like this I dunno how it could compete (with these headphones). People claim it has 5v vs the Micro's 8v and it has a larger Dynamic Range (by 8dB) but then the Micro has way more Wattage. Not sure what it all means in the end (when it comes to the sound in my situation)? I think the only upgrade from here would be a $1k Schiit stack or something (with even more power), right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 http://www3.sympatico.ca/jbcumming/CONVCHARTdBm.pdf
  
 Also, quick question. Does it use battery power even when using USB mode? If so, does the battery drain faster than it can charge while in Turbo? I've been using it plugged in but now that I've turned it off the blue LED is still on (like it's charging). Hopefully not as I plan on using this mostly as a desktop AMP/DAC for now (all day @ work).


----------



## iancraig10

I find the same ..... It opens up on turbo. Trouble is, I'm nowhere near the two or three o clock position which is supposed to be optimal!!


----------



## Sound Eq

its really strange why the sony z5 premium does not work with the ifi dsd micro, does any one own the sony z5 premium and can test if it works with ifi micro dsd


----------



## iFi audio

sound eq said:


> its really strange why the sony z5 premium does not work with the ifi dsd micro, does any one own the sony z5 premium and can test if it works with ifi micro dsd


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Check this list by Extreme Audio, the people behind UAPP.
  
 http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/2015-07-22-12-01-14/usb-audio-driver
  
 They keep a dynamic database of Android devices that are able/not able to output a digital signal. (Hence, the micro iDSD or whatever DAC so long as it is USB Audio Class 2.0, is almost irrelevant).
  
 In terms of phones, we have the Z Ultra, Z2 and Z3
 and
 in terms of tablets, we have Z, Z2, and Z4 tablets
  
 WIth an OTG cable, all of these devices output digital audio perfectly well.
  
 Given Sony's track record, the Z5 should output digital audio fine. You may have to re-check your settings.It should be pretty much plug and play.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> its really strange why the sony z5 premium does not work with the ifi dsd micro, does any one own the sony z5 premium and can test if it works with ifi micro dsd


 
  
 Don't know why but newer Sony firmware disable auto USB detection. So if you haven't done so, you will need to manually detect USB device from either setting or the notification area.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> Don't know why but newer Sony firmware disable auto USB detection. So if you haven't done so, you will need to manually detect USB device from either setting or the notification area.


 
 how do i do that, as nothing appear once i connect the sony z5premium to my ifi dsd at, and in the setting i do not see anything that can help
  
 can you tell me where is this setting in the phone
  
 i tried the ifi with my note 3 and works without a problem


----------



## Sound Eq

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Check this list by Extreme Audio, the people behind UAPP.
> 
> ...


 
 what settings nothing seems out of normal , can you tell me what settings you mean, i tried all players including uapp


----------



## ClieOS

sound eq said:


> how do i do that, as nothing appear once i connect the sony z5premium to my ifi dsd at, and in the setting i do not see anything that can help
> 
> can you tell me where is this setting in the phone
> 
> i tried the ifi with my note 3 and works without a problem


 
  
 Setting > Xperia Connectivity > USB Connectivity > Detect USB device
  
 Alternatively, pull your notification bar all the way down, there should be an icon showing a pen on a few dots, click on it - that should allow you to select what button to show in your 'Quick' setting, find 'Detect USB device', hold it down so it will be added to the notification bar.


----------



## Sound Eq

clieos said:


> Setting > Xperia Connectivity > USB Connectivity > Detect USB device
> 
> Alternatively, pull your notification bar all the way down, there should be an icon showing a pen on a few dots, click on it - that should allow you to select what button to show in your 'Quick' setting, find 'Detect USB device', hold it down so it will be added to the notification bar.


 
 thanks so much worked now


----------



## Maconi

What's the best way to use the Micro as a desktop AMP/DAC? I'm using it on Turbo and I think I'm draining the battery faster than USB 3.0 can charge it (900mW is the max a USB 3 port can do, right?).
  
 I tried an Android OTG cable (so I could pull power from the wall rather than the USB 3 port)  along with a "Fast Charging" wall wart but I think it still isn't getting enough current through (the OTG cable much thinner than the Micro's and I can't find any thicker). The Micro died while using it as well.
  
 I'm using the blue USB cable that came with the Micro just FYI.


----------



## ClieOS

maconi said:


> What's the best way to use the Micro as a desktop AMP/DAC? I'm using it on Turbo and I think I'm draining the battery faster than USB 3.0 can charge it (900mW is the max a USB 3 port can do, right?).
> 
> I tried an Android OTG cable (so I could pull power from the wall rather than the USB 3 port)  along with a "Fast Charging" wall wart but I think it still isn't getting enough current through (the OTG cable much thinner than the Micro's and I can't find any thicker). The Micro died while using it as well.
> 
> I'm using the blue USB cable that came with the Micro just FYI.


 
  
 Really depends on what your USB3.0 spec is. If it is BC1.2 compliant, it should be able to do 5V x 1.5A = 7.5W and that should be enough to power iDSD in turbo mode.


----------



## LoryWiv

With apologies if this is self-evident or answered elsewhere: Is there any mechansism or adapter one can use to obtain balanced headphone output from the iDSD?


----------



## kbuzz

Great to hear this from experienced posters...thank you!


----------



## technobear

lorywiv said:


> With apologies if this is self-evident or answered elsewhere: Is there any mechansism or adapter one can use to obtain balanced headphone output from the iDSD?




No.

There is no way to convert a single-ended headphone output to balanced using an adaptor. You will need to buy a balanced amp.


----------



## LoryWiv

technobear said:


> No.
> 
> There is no way to convert a single-ended headphone output to balanced using an adaptor. You will need to buy a balanced amp.


 
 Suspected as much, thanks for confirming.


----------



## Maconi

clieos said:


> Really depends on what your USB3.0 spec is. If it is BC1.2 compliant, it should be able to do 5V x 1.5A = 7.5W and that should be enough to power iDSD in turbo mode.


 
 Something just isn't right.
  
 I left it plugged in (unit off) until the blue LED went out (which didn't take long) and after using it a few more hours it cut itself off (I didn't see the LED but I'm assuming it blinked Red for a while before doing so). Turning it off and disconnecting/reconnecting it then showed a Blue/Red blinking LED (Battery Critical). Then after a couple minutes it went off. Now if I disconnect/reconnect it I get a Blue LED for a moment and then it turns off (Battery Full).
  
 So it's turning off as if the battery is dead but then moments later it realizes it's actually still full (this is all using the supplied USB cable, both in a PC and a wall charger). Problem is the manual says it charges to 100% when off but hovers at 80% when on. So (ignoring the fact it blinks Red for a moment) if I go from using it (should be @ 80% normally) to charging it with it off, it should take a while to reach 100%, right? Meaning I shouldn't be able to go from Red/Blue (Critical) to Blue (Charging) to Off (Not Charging) in minutes?
  
 I installed the driver from the website and it has the v5 (Vanilla) firmware on it (came with it, didn't have to flash).
  
 Is there something wrong with the battery or could I just be misusing it somehow (12 o'clock on Turbo, Bit Perfect, IEMatch Off, -25dB Preamp plus other EQ with EQ APO/Peace GUI)? Can this thing overheat (it doesn't feel _that_ warm)?


----------



## DougD

maconi said:


> .....
> 
> Is there something wrong with the battery or could I just be misusing it somehow (12 o'clock on Turbo, Bit Perfect, IEMatch Off, -25dB Preamp plus other EQ with EQ APO/Peace GUI)? Can this thing overheat (it doesn't feel _that_ warm)?


 
  
 I can't tell from your comments if you are aware of the "special nuances" of the Micro iDSD's on/off switch. So just in case:
  
 * if, when the Micro iDSD is turned on, the USB cable is connected to a power source, then the Micro iDSD will operate in "recharge while running mode." (Which in Turbo still runs at a power deficit, as I understand. But in non-Turbo, it will recharge the internal battery, albeit more slowly than if the amp was not running.)
  
 * if, when the Micro iDSD is turned on, the USB cable is NOT connected to a power source, then the Micro iDSD understands that you want it to run in what I will call "pure battery mode" ... and will not recharge. *** It will remain in pure battery mode even if you later plug the far end of the USB cable in a powered-up USB socket. *** To start the re-charging again, you have to turn the Micro iDSD off and on again. 
  
 Apologies if you already knew this.


----------



## Maconi

Yeah I'm plugging it in before turning it on. I'm also leaving it on (I don't turn it off when I walk away). Maybe leaving it on 24/7 while in Turbo just doesn't work (although I'm still not sure if that's the issue since it seems to "charge" in just minutes after shutting down)? Off to do more testing...


----------



## DougD

maconi said:


> Yeah I'm plugging it in before turning it on. I'm also leaving it on (I don't turn it off when I walk away). Maybe leaving it on 24/7 while in Turbo just doesn't work (although I'm still not sure if that's the issue since it seems to "charge" in just minutes after shutting down)? Off to do more testing...


 
  
 I don't use Turbo. But my understanding is that when Turbo is on, battery power consumption > battery recharge. If that's the case, and the battery is more or less fully discharged when you turn the iDSD on, it probably quickly turns itself off to avoid depleting the battery even more. 
  
 Try turning off Turbo, and then let it recharge for 24 hours.
  
 (again, apologies if you've been there done that.)


----------



## gr8soundz

maconi said:


> Yeah I'm plugging it in before turning it on. I'm also leaving it on (I don't turn it off when I walk away). Maybe leaving it on 24/7 while in Turbo just doesn't work (although I'm still not sure if that's the issue since it seems to "charge" in just minutes after shutting down)? Off to do more testing...


 
  
 Probably not a good idea to run it 24/7 in turbo no matter how its getting power. Have you tried running it in eco or normal and does the same thing happen?
  
 Fyi: your Ron Burgundy avatar makes it tough to read your posts without chuckling. I imagine Ron using the Micro, thinking its some kind of cologne made by "_iffy_" inside an long, oddly shaped, aluminum spray can.


----------



## ClieOS

maconi said:


> Yeah I'm plugging it in before turning it on. I'm also leaving it on (I don't turn it off when I walk away). Maybe leaving it on 24/7 while in Turbo just doesn't work (although I'm still not sure if that's the issue since it seems to "charge" in just minutes after shutting down)? Off to do more testing...


 
  
 I'll suggest you leave it plugged in (and turned off) for over night, then do a full battery run on turbo mode tomorrow and report back how much time you get. This way you will get a batter sense if the battery is at its capacity or not.


----------



## tmac7balla

Does anyone know where I can get another gender changer that comes with the IDSD mine has come lose and is no longer working


----------



## ClieOS

tmac7balla said:


> Does anyone know where I can get another gender changer that comes with the IDSD mine has come lose and is no longer working


 
  
 Which one?


----------



## Frederick Wang

I'd love to see the next generation of idsd features a better pair of Dac chips, and balanced output


----------



## sandalaudio

frederick wang said:


> I'd love to see the next generation of idsd features a better pair of Dac chips, and balanced output


 
  
 Balanced out would be nice, since it will gain attention from more "serious" listeners using larger headphones. Maybe not just for power output reasons (iFi has plenty of that even on single-ended), but for cable crosstalk etc.
  
  
 I don't know whether "better DAC chips" would make it any better. You can't get much better than how iFi is using the DSD1793 on the micro iDSD. I'm actually worried that Burr Brown (TI) would discontinue the DSD1793 making it unobtainable. These are pretty expensive chips that drains a lot of battery power, so most portable companies want to stay away from them for that reason.
  
 As much as there is a big fad for AKM 449x series DAC chips this year (as used by AK380 etc), one of the main reasons why is simply how cheap they cost per chip for the performance.


----------



## Dixter

I wouldn't worry about TI not making the DSD1793....   there's plenty of reasons to keep that line going....


----------



## sandalaudio

dixter said:


> I wouldn't worry about TI not making the DSD1793....   there's plenty of reasons to keep that line going....


 
  
 Yes I hope they keep making that for a long time. Not everyone wants low voltage high efficiency D/A chips that's abundant these days.
 We still want car companies to keep making fuel guzzling monster trucks, rather than just the compact cars that are claimed to be "just as good".
  
 When PCM1702 became obsolete, TI integrated the line to PCM1795, claiming "Similar functionality, better audio performance".


----------



## Dixter

most of the devices that do get the deep 6 get several years of product built for backup....   after the initial design/debug stage it doesn't cost much to make them... so at the end of the line they are pretty cheap to make several....


----------



## gr8soundz

frederick wang said:


> I'd love to see the next generation of idsd features a better pair of Dac chips, and balanced output


 
  
 Already on the way:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread
  
 The upcoming iDSD Pro should be out sometime next year and will have better dacs, a hybrid (switchable) tube stage, and rear balanced outputs (no balanced headphone out though). It will cost around $2000.


----------



## Frederick Wang

gr8soundz said:


> Already on the way:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread
> 
> The upcoming iDSD Pro should be out sometime next year and will have better dacs, a hybrid (switchable) tube stage, and rear balanced outputs (no balanced headphone out though). It will cost around $2000.


 
 Sounds great. But that's a desktop product, gives one "on another level" kind of feeling, not an upgraded Idsd I look forward to


----------



## Frederick Wang

sandalaudio said:


> Balanced out would be nice, since it will gain attention from more "serious" listeners using larger headphones. Maybe not just for power output reasons (iFi has plenty of that even on single-ended), but for cable crosstalk etc.
> 
> 
> I don't know whether "better DAC chips" would make it any better. You can't get much better than how iFi is using the DSD1793 on the micro iDSD. I'm actually worried that Burr Brown (TI) would discontinue the DSD1793 making it unobtainable. These are pretty expensive chips that drains a lot of battery power, so most portable companies want to stay away from them for that reason.
> ...


 
 I used Idsd with my AKG K712 pro for about a month, while I had them I was immensely satisfied, then I bought a pair of Pandora Hope VI, which is a ridiculously efficient full-sized headphone, it could be easily driven even by my cellphone. Then I found that PHVI was barely more musical with Idsd than with my cellphone(Smartisan T1). 
  
 I don't know much about technology, so I jumped to the conclusion that without much need for amplification, the Dac part may play a more prominent part in affecting the performances, was that correct?


----------



## knorris908

Not that anyone asked, but I thought that I'd let everyone know that my iFi iDSD and iCAN have been holding their own against my Schiit Audio ASGARD 2 desktop amp...

My wife and I have been pitting our Senheiser HD-650 vs HD-800 vs Beyerdynamics T1 ver.2 all evening. Still haven't declared a CLEAR winner overall, as they each do certain songs/genres better than the others. By and large, HD-800, followed REALLY closely by the T1 ver.2, and when it comes to Pop, electronica, or synth-heavy pieces, the HD-650 actually acquits itself nicely so long as the tempo isn't too rapid, then the T1 ver.2 beats it, but we feel it needs a bit of bass boost to compete with the HD-650's bass offering, but it doesn't need very much at all.

Add the iCAN to the mix, and nothing much changes, but the thump gets better on the T1 ver.2, and the HD-800s seem to mellow slightly when tracks otherwise would have harsher highs. The bass in the HD-650s feels like it tightens up just a tad, but it was never bad to begin with on the iDSD Micro.

So far, no surprises. Our HD-650s sound great. Then the HD-800 & T1 ver.2 are just in a different class. They keep one-upping each other depending on song. My wife can't pick a favorite. Her quote: "I'd just pick whichever sounds best with what I want to listen to each day. I don't think either one is really better or worse." So it looks like we'll be keeping both...


----------



## sandalaudio

frederick wang said:


> I used Idsd with my AKG K712 pro for about a month, while I had them I was immensely satisfied, then I bought a pair of Pandora Hope VI, which is a ridiculously efficient full-sized headphone, it could be easily driven even by my cellphone. Then I found that PHVI was barely more musical with Idsd than with my cellphone(Smartisan T1).
> 
> I don't know much about technology, so I jumped to the conclusion that without much need for amplification, the Dac part may play a more prominent part in affecting the performances, was that correct?


 
  
 Pandora is much more efficient than K712 (105 vs 93 dB/mW), but also has very low nominal impedance (8 vs 62 ohms). It's true that Pandora can reach louder volumes even with weak amps, but you can also say the contrary, that the Pandora is more sensitive to the amp performance than the K712.
  
 The low efficiency, high impedance headphones like K712 is less susceptible to interference and microvolt level noise (provided that your amp can generate high voltage required). On the contrary, the Pandora will respond to even the most subtle signal in the amplifier circuitry. Also, a low 8 ohm impedance means the sound is dependent on how much current your amp can pump out. 
  
 So the amp would still play a role in the Pandora, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the smartphone would sound really bad compared to the iFi. Who knows, some amps that have terrible output impedance would constrict the sharp transients, making headphones sound smoother and nicer.


----------



## ClieOS

gr8soundz said:


> Already on the way:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread
> 
> The upcoming iDSD Pro should be out sometime next year and will have better dacs, a hybrid (switchable) tube stage, and rear balanced outputs (no balanced headphone out though). It will cost around $2000.


 
  
 Actually I think it might have more of the same DAC rather than a 'better DAC'. With DSD1793 being such an unique chip, and the fact that iFi / ARM has invested so much to develop a custom implementation that can take full advantage of the chip - I am not sure it will be wise to change to another DAC.


----------



## potkettleblack

Hi all,
  
 How exactly is this thing charged and how long does it last? I've looked at the user manual and have no idea. If I go with it, it will be used with a macbook.
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## tf1216

Check it out...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-intergalactic-launch-competition#post_12155761


----------



## technobear

potkettleblack said:


> Hi all,
> 
> How exactly is this thing charged and how long does it last? I've looked at the user manual and have no idea. If I go with it, it will be used with a macbook.
> 
> Thanks in advance




It is charged through the rear USB port.

In battery mode and with the Eco setting it lasts about 12 hours on a full charge.

If it is connected to a MacBook and running on USB power then it will charge continuously in Eco mode, more slowly in Normal mode and only when sleeping in Turbo mode.

To use battery mode, switch the iDSD on before connecting the USB cable.

To use USB mode, switch the iDSD on after connecting the USB cable.


Also see here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-the-meaty-monsters-are-flying-out-page-95/735#post_10627797

and here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-the-meaty-monsters-are-flying-out-page-95/735#post_10628199


----------



## potkettleblack

Thank you.


----------



## iFi audio

Join the force.......head over to our competition for a chance to win some iFi goodies and get the latest on the iCan SE Micro!
  
 Thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-intergalactic-launch-competition


----------



## nubje

Super quick question about the iDSD Micro, does this beast have the same amp as the iFi iCan Micro?


----------



## 227qed

nubje said:


> Super quick question about the iDSD Micro, does this beast have the same amp as the iFi iCan Micro?​


 
  
 The short answer is that the iCAN has a better amp than the iDSD, so no.  But the iDSD amp is darn powerful from what I've gathered.  Somewhere there is a detailed description from the ifi folks about the differences between the amps.  I wish I could find it, but it's there if you look hard enough.


----------



## knorris908

nubje said:


> Super quick question about the iDSD Micro, does this beast have the same amp as the iFi iCan Micro?


 

 I believe that 227QED is right.  The iCAN​ Micro has a class "A" amp which the iDSD Micro does not as it is battery powered.  (I'm not SURE but I BELIEVE that battery-powered and class "A" are mutually-exclusive.  It's either one or the other unless you employ some trickery that I'm not aware of.)  That said:  The iDSD Micro has a GOOD amp!  It drives everything I have from my most sensitive in-ears to my HD-800s, and does so really well.  My iCAN Micro does do a slightly better job, as does my desktop ASGARD 2 amp, but it isn't the "night and day" difference you might expect.  If I didn't A/B compare between them, I'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference for much of what I listen to on say, my Koss K550/K545 or T1 ver2 headphones which seem to like just about every amp I own.  But there is a definite difference on my HD-800s.  Even my HD-650s scale-up a little as I move from the iDSD Micro to the iCAN Micro.  Never sounding bad, just some subtle enhancements to bass handling, soundstage width/depth, and mellowness of the highs.  Again, it never is bad on the iDSD Micro, just different, and for my tastes, I prefer the iCAN Micro.  But for PORTABLE sound, there is nothing short of the much more expensive Chord HUGO, or maybe Mojo (I haven't compared them yet myself) that I know of that can touch it.
  
 I did a video comparing the iDSD & iCAN if you are interested.  I'M LINKING IT BELOW


----------



## Narcissus

Hey guys, I'd like to jump on the DSD bandwagon and need some advise from experienced members who own the idsd etc.

From what I read the idsd seems like the best vfm product for someone wanting to wet their feet and check out what DSD is all about.

So let me start by saying, I do not use headphones. I have a 2 channel rig to which I would like to connect the idsd, I know it's possible and a couple of members have done it.

Can I connect the idsd directly to my monoblocks and drive them via the idsd volume control? Is the preamp powerful enough to drive a pair of class A monoblocks? What is the output impedance of the idsd in preamp mode?

Some of the users feel DSD128 is nothing great, almost at par with PCM and find PCM more enjoyable. But DSD 256 I'm told is supposedly very analog sounding, is any of this true/false, please enlighten me..

What other products can I purchase to compliment the idsd? Should I get the iusb power or USB 3.0 + Gemini cable + I purifier etc?

Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

narcissus said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to jump on the DSD bandwagon and need some advise from experienced members who own the idsd etc.
> 
> From what I read the idsd seems like the best vfm product for someone wanting to wet their feet and check out what DSD is all about.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As you have a big system and no need for headphones, as much as we like to recommend something bigger and more plush, the iDAC2 is far better suited to your needs. It is less costly and you can still play PCM and DSD to your heart's content.
  
 Once you have tried and find that you like the AMR/iFi house sound, then you may wish to try the other products but to start with just borrow an iDAC2 from a dealer and run it in your big rig. The more expensive, the better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There is a lot of background information here for you to get your nashers into:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-calling-5-head-fiers-a-litte-surprise-page-37
  
 Cheers.


----------



## technobear

The iDAC2 doesn't have a pre-amp mode so you would need to add a pre-amp to control the volume of those monoblocks. An iTUBE would be a good candidate. Or just use an iDSD in pre-amp mode.

They all have more than enough output to get the monoblocks to full volume and impedance is not an issue.


----------



## 397324

.


----------



## Dixter

Darren... see if you can get it replaced with a new one....   contact your vendor and talk with them...    my credit card company doubles the OEM warranty so you might look into that avenue too?


----------



## 227qed

@nubje, this is the post ifi post I referred to earlier:

Hi,

 

Pretty succinct. We would only add that there are many good Class A headphone amplifiers on the market that sound great. But what makes the micro iCAN a little above and beyond in a sea of headphone amps is the TubeState® circuit which AMR developed for the micro iCAN. Something that gives it the 'Factor X.' The micro iCAN uses a discrete circuit that deliberately and nicely models the way tubes amplify audio. We call it TubeState®.

 

From our own R&D testing, we can assure you that the Tubestate® circuitry dishes out quite a large dollop of sonic improvement and is the core ngredient behind its sonics, more so than the pure Class A. This is what you are getting that gives the iFi micro iCAN that extra ‘Factor X’ – over and above other mains powered Class A headphone amplifiers. So yes, the iCAN is better than the micro iDSD on the headphones but it is also nicer sounding than many other desktop headphone amplifiers too, because it is deliberately made to sound like a good tube headphone amplifier. And so, mains power is needed for TubeState® so not possible on battery/USB power at this juncture.

 

But all is not lost, while the micro iDSD has neither the battery current nor the circuit board space to include the ‘Tubestate®’ circuit, in its place there is a (Burr Brown ‘SoundPlus®’) Op-Amp, one of the best you can get and close in character to the Tubestate® circuit, but just not quite as warm, ‘tubey’ sounding.

 

Other than this change from Tubestate® discrete pre-stage to Soundplus® Op-Amp and extra Class A current in the output stage, the Headphone Amplifier of the micro iCAN  and of the micro iDSD are essentially identical in circuit design and structure, when the iDSD micro is set to 'normal.'

 

Ultimate, TubeState does not match real tubes but it just gets darn close.


----------



## 227qed

Anyone know the cost of the ican special edition? I just bought an ican a few hours before learning it was getting a special edition update. Not too late to return and exchange, but I'd also love to hear more about the details, differences from ifi audio if they wanna jump in!


----------



## technobear

227qed said:


> Anyone know the cost of the ican special edition? I just bought an ican a few hours before learning it was getting a special edition update. Not too late to return and exchange, but I'd also love to hear more about the details, differences from ifi audio if they wanna jump in!




Try this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-intergalactic-launch-competition


----------



## Narcissus

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> As you have a big system and no need for headphones, as much as we like to recommend something bigger and more plush, the iDAC2 is far better suited to your needs. It is less costly and you can still play PCM and DSD to your heart's content.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the quick reply and your advise, however I need to connect the DAC directly to my power amps. I do not have a pre & do not intend to use one. So, I guess I'm left with the only option of micro idsd eh?

One more thing, my amps are fully balanced and I would prefer a balanced DAC with preamp/volume control and DSD 256 capabilities, I've heard there's a new model being launched anytime soon called "pro". If it's a matter of waiting for 2 months or so then I'm game for it, could you please confirm... Tx


----------



## Narcissus

technobear said:


> The iDAC2 doesn't have a pre-amp mode so you would need to add a pre-amp to control the volume of those monoblocks. An iTUBE would be a good candidate. Or just use an iDSD in pre-amp mode.
> 
> They all have more than enough output to get the monoblocks to full volume and impedance is not an issue.




Thanks for pointing that out, I do not wish to add a pre amp to the chain, I guess the idsd fits the bill for now, unless the PRO is being launched anytime soon...


----------



## iFi audio

227qed said:


> Anyone know the cost of the ican special edition? I just bought an ican a few hours before learning it was getting a special edition update. Not too late to return and exchange, but I'd also love to hear more about the details, differences from ifi audio if they wanna jump in!


 
  
 Not here.
  
 But here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-intergalactic-launch-competition
  
 Tech notes in the pipeline...


----------



## HotIce

technobear said:


> The iDAC2 doesn't have a pre-amp mode so you would need to add a pre-amp to control the volume of those monoblocks. An iTUBE would be a good candidate. Or just use an iDSD in pre-amp mode.
> 
> 
> 
> They all have more than enough output to get the monoblocks to full volume and impedance is not an issue.



 
It all depends on the amp sensitivity. The 2.1V the iDAC2 puts out, can be enough to drive the majority of amps. The issue is that those 2.1V line out, are fixed. So unless your amp has volume control, you would be listening pretty loudly


----------



## HotIce

And if your amp has decent sensitivity and high enough input Z (as they typically do):

http://www.amazon.com/Emotiva-Audio-CF-Unbalanced-Control-Freak/dp/B00JRHUGDI


----------



## stuart1927

I have the ifi idsd micro paired with the Ibasso dx80 and mr speakers alpha primes. Fantastic combination!
  
 I was just listening to this recording
  
 http://www.hdtracks.com/tamsin-vaughan-williams-the-lark-ascending
  
 I don't think I've ever been so moved by any recording...especially the final track "the lark ascending"...breathtaking stuff. Had me in tears.


----------



## stuart1927

Ok....small problem. Now have Ibasso dx80 and hooking it up to idsd micro it won't play dsf files. I can play them stand alone on the Ibasso. I was able to play dsf with my older dx90 hooked up to the ifi dsd via coax.....any ideas?


----------



## sandalaudio

stuart1927 said:


> Ok....small problem. Now have Ibasso dx80 and hooking it up to idsd micro it won't play dsf files. I can play them stand alone on the Ibasso. I was able to play dsf with my older dx90 hooked up to the ifi dsd via coax.....any ideas?


 
  
 iBasso DX80 can't output DSD via S/PDIF (at least for the current firmware 1.1.4)
  
 DX90 could because it converted DSD to PCM internally so it just needed to put that out via S/PDIF.
 DX80 plays DSD natively, so it doesn't convert it to PCM nor does it have any programming to output via DoP, so it just outputs silence.


----------



## iFi audio

stuart1927 said:


> Ok....small problem. Now have Ibasso dx80 and hooking it up to idsd micro it won't play dsf files. I can play them stand alone on the Ibasso. I was able to play dsf with my older dx90 hooked up to the ifi dsd via coax.....any ideas?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Dont worry, the micro iDSD plays .dsf and .dff files (along with .wav and .flac etc).
  
 BUT as for the SPDIF protocol, please bear in mind there is no industry convention for outputting DSD via SPDIF (as it was of course originally designed for PCM).
  
 On USB there is Audio Class 2.0 for example.
  
 Hence the product you have, you must contact the manufacturer and confirm with them how (if at all possible) it can output .dsf or .dff via SPDIF.
  
 It is a bit like with Android and USB host mode, from the same manufacturer, some devices handle USB host mode and some dont.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## stuart1927

Thanks for the replies guys. It seems that the current DAP's would benefit from a proper usb audio out functionality (as you have with a phone for example)? Seems kind of crazy that you have dsd capable players that don't have this as standard. My Ibasso 80 and Cayin N6 are great players, but really need the power of the ifi dsd micro for my alpha primes.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## xanlamin

I've enjoying the iDSD for more than a year now. I'm wondering if there is another better amp-dac? Has anyone found anything that is better?


----------



## ClieOS

stuart1927 said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. It seems that the current DAP's would benefit from a proper usb audio out functionality (as you have with a phone for example)? Seems kind of crazy that you have dsd capable players that don't have this as standard. My Ibasso 80 and Cayin N6 are great players, but really need the power of the ifi dsd micro for my alpha primes.
> 
> Thanks again!


 
  
 Because there is no such a thing as USB-out in the audio world. USB is designed as an universal standard for data transmission, and not audio specific. At such it requires the host device to have the capability to recognize the slave device to be an audio device, then loads in and applies the necessary driver and protocol so both sides will understand each other. This is very different from audio specific communication standard such as SPDIF, where both sides already follow an fixed standard and therefore there isn't any guesswork needed to be done on the host side. So to have proper USB audio, you first need a properly smart OS on a host that has good enough hardware to run that smart OS - and that is easier said than done. Takes both iBasso DX80 and Cayin N6 for an example - While DX80 is running on Android (a smart OS) and probably have good enough hardware to do USB audio, USB Audio Class driver isn't really a standard feature on Android, which means iBasso must spends extra money and time to develop and implement the feature. While it can be done, it probably isn't cost effective enough for iBasso to even consider it. On the other hand Cayin N6 simply doesn't have an good enough SoC to run a smart OS to even get a USB audio driver to run. In comprison, playing DSD internally is a lot simpler to build onto the hardware and software.


----------



## technobear

xanlamin said:


> I've enjoying the iDSD for more than a year now. I'm wondering if there is another better amp-dac? Has anyone found anything that is better?




1) What do you mean by 'better'?

2) How much do you want to spend?


----------



## stuart1927

Thanks for the info. I'm not an expert in the technicalities of hi-res audio, so the description was really helpful. So with the idsd mico....I'm probably better hooking up my nexus 6p via usb when playing dsf files. I still think there is a gap in the market here for a truly flexible dap that can provide the same functionality. I don't really want to use my phone as a dap, but for dsd, it's my only option if I want to use the idsd as the dac/amp.


----------



## rickyleelee

more expensive yes there are but better I haven't found it and I've just been to the recent audio shows where all the new gear was launched. the chord hugo was good but different, not better in my personal listening (ymmv). not the same flexibility and sound quality. and when price is taken into account, the hugo didnt make me go go. I will try the mojo in 2016 and report back as easy to demo because I dont have to travel far here in hong kong.


----------



## ClieOS

stuart1927 said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm not an expert in the technicalities of hi-res audio, so the description was really helpful. So with the idsd mico....I'm probably better hooking up my nexus 6p via usb when playing dsf files. I still think there is a gap in the market here for a truly flexible dap that can provide the same functionality. I don't really want to use my phone as a dap, but for dsd, it's my only option if I want to use the idsd as the dac/amp.


 
  
 The current trend of higher end DAP is moving toward Android, so my guess is that you don't need to wait too long to see a good number of DAP supporting USB audio in the future.


----------



## rickyleelee

As ifi and Clie do - get a Sony phone or tablet (you decide yourself). I really fancy the Z ultraman. That is the godzilla of smartphones. and useddemo


----------



## rickyleelee

or demo it is really great for the money. hi res app is sexy too. plus most daps are old android phones i just dont wanna pay more dollars for an older droid. the z ultra takes only up to 65gb cards so not the latest 128 or 256 cards. this is a downer.


----------



## xanlamin

technobear said:


> 1) What do you mean by 'better'?
> 
> 2) How much do you want to spend?


 
  
 1) Richer sound, less analytical, better bass control, larger soundstage
  
 2) 2k max


----------



## DomieMic65

What USB driver do you use on Win pc? 2.23 or 2.26???
I find 2.26 somehow bugy on my win 10 laptop... 
Also with 2.26 the info tab is missing from the driver control panel!! 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## Smrc42

Hey guys,

Not too sure if anyone try this kinda of set up. Its only for a temporary use till I decide which DAC to get...
Ifi micro idsd + hdva600 + HD800. Am kinda new to this so not to sure if the micro can act as a DAC after I get the hdva600. Personally don't think that there is any issues for that but just in case it can't...


----------



## ClieOS

smrc42 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Not too sure if anyone try this kinda of set up. Its only for a temporary use till I decide which DAC to get...
> Ifi micro idsd + hdva600 + HD800. Am kinda new to this *so not to sure if the micro can act as a DAC after I get the hdva600*. Personally don't think that there is any issues for that but just in case it can't...


 
  
 Of course it can. But if it is only going to be used as a DAC only, you might want to get the iDAC2 instead.


----------



## xanlamin

Does anyone here own the m9xx? How does it compare with the iDSD Micro?


----------



## Smrc42

clieos said:


> Of course it can. But if it is only going to be used as a DAC only, you might want to get the iDAC2 instead.


 I already had the idsd and wanted to upgrade part by part. Don't wanna broke my bank account overnight getting the wrong set up. Thanks for the reply. Cheers


----------



## HedgeHog

Just swapped out the Micro iDSD with a Hugo TT.  I gotta say that the iDSD does very well in comparison.  The Hugo TT is nicer but not sure if it's worth 10x the admission fee.
  
 -H


----------



## ClieOS

hedgehog said:


> Just swapped out the Micro iDSD with a Hugo TT.  I gotta say that the iDSD does very well in comparison.  The Hugo TT is nicer *but not sure if it's worth 10x the admission fee*.
> 
> -H


 
  
 I'll like to personally think that that's a fairly common sentiment when it comes to Chord's gears - very nice, but not exactly great on VFM factor.


----------



## rickyleelee

I borrowed the Chord Hugo from my friend and they borrowed my micro dsd. I asked him what he thought and he was impressed by the dsd and he liked the headphone tdialling-in much for his not cheap eims. i read the TT thread and it is a repacked Hugo for more money. so i have not auditioned it as it is even more pricey gears. good if you got money but not for me as i like my buck bang lots. but worth trying the sound. it is not bad.


----------



## iFi audio

*Present Alert! * *Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all iFi customers from David Elias and iFi Audio!*  
 Forget the new products we've launched in 2015, more in 2016 - meanwhile, as we're as much into music as you guys, we gotta get your all some new tunes to tide you over Christmas and the New Year!
  
 So here you go...for everyone. No restrictions.
  

  
 All the way from Hawaii, David Elias has made these two personal recommendations for iFi Audio customers:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/present-alert-merry-christmas-and-happy-new-year-to-all-ifi-customers-from-david-elias-and-ifi-audio/
  
 The package is really killer in our opinion – the discs will be out by the end of the year David even design this cool 3D artwork with Photoshop. Talk about multi-talented.
https://www.oasiscd.com/AVLFlashViewer/?p=KuiKsyCyX4HJgELI16rCng==#.VnEw8b_pj7w
 (use the mouse to move any direction and the screen control to zoom in while it’s playing)
  
 Album out now for sale or CD master download or disc package order at: 
  
http://davidelias.bandcamp.com
  
 With 18-page PDF incl lyrics, photos.
 Mele Kalikimaka and Hau’oli Makahiki Hou!
  
 Happy Holidays from David Elias and iFi Audio!
www.davidelias.com


----------



## coastal1

What's the best connection from iPhone 6 to IFI Micro?  I mostly use my Micro connected to PC with with the blue USB cable provided.  When using iPhone to play files, I've been using an Apple lightning CCK plugged into the Micro's USB Female Type A digital input (think that's the correct name, if not, the same input that the IFI blue USB cable plugs into).
  
 I can't find my Apple lightning CCK and am having trouble finding an Apple replacement online. Perhaps it was discontinued.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Would prefer an Apple CCK, reluctant to order a cheap generic one from China on Ebay, but would be okay with a reputable generic replacement.


----------



## Dixter

Not sure why but it looks like they moved the cable to the ipad area...  here ya go...
  
 http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter


----------



## coastal1

dixter said:


> Not sure why but it looks like they moved the cable to the ipad areqa...  here ya go...
> 
> http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter


 
  
 Thanks


----------



## Dixter

Its probably because on the last iphone update Apple turned on external Camera picture download and all you have to use the function is the usb cable...


----------



## DonD

ifi audio said:


> *Present Alert! * *Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all iFi customers from David Elias and iFi Audio!*
> Forget the new products we've launched in 2015, more in 2016 - meanwhile, as we're as much into music as you guys, we gotta get your all some new tunes to tide you over Christmas and the New Year!
> 
> So here you go...for everyone. No restrictions.
> ...


 

 Many thanks, David and iFi, for this beautiful Christmas gift !
  
 (I do quote it entirely so that it doesn't get "lost" too fast )
  
 Edit: BTW it's post 5000...


----------



## jazzfan

ifi audio said:


> *Present Alert! * *Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all iFi customers from David Elias and iFi Audio!*
> Forget the new products we've launched in 2015, more in 2016 - meanwhile, as we're as much into music as you guys, we gotta get your all some new tunes to tide you over Christmas and the New Year!
> 
> So here you go...for everyone. No restrictions.


 
  
 Thank you for this precious gift, David!!!
  
 Peace, Love & Happy Holidays to you and yours, and to all the good people at iFi Audio.


----------



## iFi audio

coastal1 said:


> What's the best connection from iPhone 6 to IFI Micro?  I mostly use my Micro connected to PC with with the blue USB cable provided.  When using iPhone to play files, I've been using an Apple lightning CCK plugged into the Micro's USB Female Type A digital input (think that's the correct name, if not, the same input that the IFI blue USB cable plugs into).
> 
> I can't find my Apple lightning CCK and am having trouble finding an Apple replacement online. Perhaps it was discontinued.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Would prefer an Apple CCK, reluctant to order a cheap generic one from China on Ebay, but would be okay with a reputable generic replacement.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Don't spend any money on a non-Apple CCK/USB to lightning connector. Unlike 'Droid' there is hardware inside the Apple connector to extract the digital signal. So one MUST purchase the requisite 30-pin or 9-pin connector (depending upon your iPhone model).
  
 As per this:
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/iphone-ipad-ipod-touch/
  





 Otherwise it won't work.
  
 With 'Droid' you can get any OTG connector (Sony/Samsung a n other) or as it is a wiring configuration. Nothing else is involved,
  
 Cheers.


----------



## coastal1

Thanks, understood. But I'm confused by the picture. Doesn't the Apple CCK go into the larger USB Female Type A input (same input the included IFi blue USB cable connects to) and not into the Micro's side USB input?



ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Don't spend any money on a non-Apple CCK/USB to lightning connector. Unlike 'Droid' there is hardware inside the Apple connector to extract the digital signal. So one MUST purchase the requisite 30-pin or 9-pin connector (depending upon your iPhone model).
> 
> ...


----------



## HotIce

Yes, CCK goes in large female USB A input.


----------



## technobear

coastal1 said:


> Thanks, understood. But I'm confused by the picture. Doesn't the Apple CCK go into the larger USB Female Type A input (same input the included IFi blue USB cable connects to) and not into the Micro's side USB input?




The side USB socket is for charging a phone only.


----------



## coastal1

Thanks, that's what I thought, picture is confusing



technobear said:


> The side USB socket is for charging a phone only.


----------



## Haris Javed

Hello Hello 
  
 Here is my video review of the IFI micro idsd! 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## coastal1

mbusby said:


> I use the optical input for my 6th gen iPod classic via a Pure I-20 dock. At the same time, I have usb connected from my pc. Both interfaces work in tandem through the iDSD. The iPod sounds great via the I-20 (digital out of the iPod via the dock). I would assume that using the pc optical out would have the same performance.


 
  
 So is something like using a Pure I-20 dock the best option for using an Ipod Classic (6th/7th gen) with the micro, or is there another connection that doesnt required an iPod dock?


----------



## Amoy Utot

Hi,

 Happy New Year to all  Need your expert opinion guys,..
 I'm using Sony Xperia Z5 Premium and ifi micro iDSD connected thru OTG cable, when I use the "music app" (default on phone) which they say is capable of playing high-res music,.. the small LED indicator on the iDSD always stays on YELLOW.  For all bitrate,.. 44-96-192Khz... DSD64, DSD128,.. etc. Does the default music app upsample/downsample the music files? But when I use the ONKYO HF player, everything is normal, the small LED on the iDSD indicates correctly the type of file being played. What would be the culprit? any fix for this issue? Thank you in advance.


----------



## iFi audio

amoy utot said:


> Hi,
> 
> Happy New Year to all  Need your expert opinion guys,..
> I'm using Sony Xperia Z5 Premium and ifi micro iDSD connected thru OTG cable, when I use the "music app" (default on phone) which they say is capable of playing high-res music,.. the small LED indicator on the iDSD always stays on YELLOW.  For all bitrate,.. 44-96-192Khz... DSD64, DSD128,.. etc. Does the default music app upsample/downsample the music files? But when I use the ONKYO HF player, everything is normal, the small LED on the iDSD indicates correctly the type of file being played. What would be the culprit? any fix for this issue? Thank you in advance.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You already debugged yourself.
  
Bad News
 The Sony Hi-Res Walkman is not Bit-Perfect. If you wish to know the technical history - previous Sony Hi-Res Walkman app versions played HD correctly and converted DSD to 4X PCM. Later Sony changed that, so everything is always up-converted to 4X PCM if Phone or DAC support this rate. To the best of our knowledge, there is no "off" switch for this feature.
  
Good News
 Onkyo HF Player/UAPP/Hysolid are Bit-Perfect.
  
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Amoy Utot

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You already debugged yourself.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you so much for your reply, I have ZERO knowledge with regards to Sony Hi-Res Walkman app. I guess I'll stick to Onkyo HF player... cheers.


----------



## rickyleelee

neat vid bro. the BB chip is from BB Japan (before I bought them out. it was covered in the crowd design thread). the xBass and 3D 'undo' recordings which are mixed for speakers to needs help for headphone use. I totally agree with what you say about the performance is as good as the specs which trumps the odac and even the chord mojo. Though chord does a far better job of marketing their gear. Peace and best new year wishes. keep up the good vids.


----------



## k525

Hi

I have an issue with my iDSD (may be was discussed in this forum but I was unable to find anything with the search tool..)

I keep it connected with a mid 2010 MacBook 13" (OSX El Capitan) and I use to put the Mac in sleep by closing the lid.
Very often when i resume the Mac , opening the lid, the iDSD was not recognised anymore and the only way to let the mac recognise iDSD in to unplug and replug the USB cable* (this is VERY annoying!)*..
This issue occur especially after long sleep (6/12 hours).
I tried a lot of resume combinations and firmware versions but with no success (iFi support was not able to help me), this is the iFi answer:
  

_It seems that the iDSD micro jumps to battery mode and the 'handshake' is dropped after time due to the Mac being in sleep mode. _
_The iDSD micro goes to sleep mode 15 minutes (3 minutes on battery) after playback of music has stopped (all digital inputs). It will wake up within 1 second of receiving a valid signal on any given input or of the Headphones being connected. Sleep mode powers down the DAC and analogue stages + headphone amp - Can you try inserting headphones or a signal to potentially re-wake the iDSD micro?_
 


Is someone having the same problem? also with other USB DAC?

Any suggestions?

Best regards
Saverio


----------



## Koolpep

k525 said:


> [COLOR=333333]Hi[/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]I have an issue with my iDSD (may be was discussed in this forum but I was unable to find anything with the search tool..)[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=333333]
> ...




I have a solution for you if it really annoys you that much. Don't close the lid. Don't let the Mac go to sleep. Modern energy saving mechanisms will always cause issues otherwise especially if things go into deep sleep or battery conservation mode. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## k525

koolpep said:


> I have a solution for you if it really annoys you that much. Don't close the lid. Don't let the Mac go to sleep. Modern energy saving mechanisms will always cause issues otherwise especially if things go into deep sleep or battery conservation mode.
> 
> Cheers,
> K


 

 Good idea 
  
 I  will also keep my car engine always on in order to always find a warm cabin in the morning!


----------



## Koolpep

k525 said:


> Good idea
> 
> I  will also keep my car engine always on in order to always find a warm cabin in the morning!




If the starting of the engine is of such high inconvenience for you like the reconnecting of the usb cable, then maybe this would work as well. 

Another idea: would a powered usb hub change the behavior of the iDSD?

Cheers,
K


----------



## k525

koolpep said:


> If the starting of the engine is of such high inconvenience for you like the reconnecting of the usb cable, then maybe this would work as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi
  
 I tried with an USB HUB with own power supply but with no success, now I am tying Hibernating the Mac instead of simple memory sleep
  
 Regards


----------



## JavierS

I was trying to upsample to DSD in Foobar using SACD plugin and foo_dsd_asio proxy and found that all 48K based sample rate files (48K, 96K & 192K) were being output untouched to mi iDSD micro (LED was either green or yellow colour). After some searching I came across a pdf file in iFi's site FAQ that says 48K based DSD is not supported "for now" through native DSD. (I'm using W10, 2.26 drivers and 5.0 firmware).
  
 If so, how can one achieve 24.6M (48x DSD512) using Windows if it is not supported by native DSD and DoP stops at DSD256?
  
 Is there any chance this is supported in the near future or it depends on 3rd parties and there is no way of knowing when or even if it will ever be available?
  
 TIA


----------



## technobear

javiers said:


> I was trying to upsample to DSD in Foobar using SACD plugin and foo_dsd_asio proxy and found that all 48K based sample rate files (48K, 96K & 192K) were being output untouched to mi iDSD micro (LED was either green or yellow colour). After some searching I came across a pdf file in iFi's site FAQ that says 48K based DSD is not supported "for now" through native DSD. (I'm using W10, 2.26 drivers and 5.0 firmware).
> 
> If so, how can one achieve 24.6M (48x DSD512) using Windows if it is not supported by native DSD and DoP stops at DSD256?
> 
> ...




This is a limitation of foo_dsd_asio.


It will play DSD512 files if you have any.

You can convert Red Book CD files.


----------



## JavierS

technobear said:


> This is a limitation of foo_dsd_asio.
> 
> 
> It will play DSD512 files if you have any.
> ...




I also have an Amanero USB adapter and it doesn't have this problem.It converts 44.1k and 48k equally fine. I don't think this is a problem with foo_dsd_asio with the exception of not checking max supported PCM rates when selecting DoP instead of ASIO. I've alreay emailed Maxim about this.


----------



## technobear

javiers said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > This is a limitation of foo_dsd_asio.
> ...




It isn't a problem with the iDSD. No conversion occurs within the iDSD between PCM and DSD. If the iDSD receives PCM then it converts PCM to analogue. If the iDSD receives DSD then it converts DSD to analogue.

Conversion of PCM to DSD is the sole responsibility of foo_dsd_asio.


----------



## JavierS

technobear said:


> It isn't a problem with the iDSD. No conversion occurs within the iDSD between PCM and DSD. If the iDSD receives PCM then it converts PCM to analogue. If the iDSD receives DSD then it converts DSD to analogue.
> 
> Conversion of PCM to DSD is the sole responsibility of foo_dsd_asio.


 
  
 I think you are misunderstanding my posts.
 At no point I said the iDSD converts PCM to DSD, though it actually does to a point convert to SDM as DSD1793 is not a full R2R chip nut rather a hybrid. I use either Foobar or HQPlayer for converting PCM->DSD.
 I was just asking whether there is a way to send DSD512 with a 48k base sample rate using Windows and also if there will be in the, hopefuly near, future drivers/firmware that will support native DSD through ASIO for the complete family of DSD 48K rates.


----------



## iFi audio

javiers said:


> I was trying to upsample to DSD in Foobar using SACD plugin and foo_dsd_asio proxy and found that all 48K based sample rate files (48K, 96K & 192K) were being output untouched to mi iDSD micro (LED was either green or yellow colour). After some searching I came across a pdf file in iFi's site FAQ that says 48K based DSD is not supported "for now" through native DSD. (I'm using W10, 2.26 drivers and 5.0 firmware).
> 
> If so, how can one achieve 24.6M (48x DSD512) using Windows if it is not supported by native DSD and DoP stops at DSD256?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The limitation is in the driver supplied by XMOS. This limitation has been raised with XMOS but there is no suggested data for inclusion.
  
 In principle the fix should be quite straight forward (likely just updating header files) but the source code is not available to us.
  
 The same limitation incidentally applies to all XMOS based devices using the XMOS supplied/supported driver out there, this is not specific to iFi.
  
 So for the moment, we are pushing but it will come when it comes.


----------



## technobear

ifi audio said:


> javiers said:
> 
> 
> > I was trying to upsample to DSD in Foobar using SACD plugin and foo_dsd_asio proxy and found that all 48K based sample rate files (48K, 96K
> ...




Have I misunderstood?

What are these DSD 48k files?

How is that different from DSD64?


----------



## JavierS

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The limitation is in the driver supplied by XMOS. This limitation has been raised with XMOS but there is no suggested data for inclusion.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much, hope they include it sooner than later.


----------



## JavierS

technobear said:


> Have I misunderstood?
> 
> What are these DSD 48k files?
> 
> How is that different from DSD64?


 
  
 DSD64 can be either 44.1K (44,100 x 64= 2,822,400 Hz) or 48K based (48000 x 64 = 3,072,000 Hz).
  
 There no 48K files available AFAIK but it is possible to covert 48/96/192KHz PCM files realtime to DSD6/128/256/512 using Foobar or HQPlayer.


----------



## technobear

javiers said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Have I misunderstood?
> ...




OK.

That still leaves me with a question. Clearly foo_dsd_asio does not convert the 48k files to DSD. The iDSD is receiving PCM.

Is this because:

a) foo_dsd_asio cannot do the conversion?

or

b) foo_dsd_asio has queried the iDSD which says no can't do it so foo_dsd_asio then intelligently sends out the PCM instead?

Great if it's the latter as a future firmware upgrade might fix it.


----------



## jhwalker

technobear said:


> OK.
> 
> That still leaves me with a question. Clearly foo_dsd_asio does not convert the 48k files to DSD. The iDSD is receiving PCM.
> 
> ...


 

 The iFi Micro iDSD can play DSD at either 44k or 48k rates.  I'm currently listening to a 24/96 file upsampled to 12,288,000 (i.e., DSD256, a 48k variant) via HQPlayer.


----------



## JavierS

technobear said:


> OK.
> 
> That still leaves me with a question. Clearly foo_dsd_asio does not convert the 48k files to DSD. The iDSD is receiving PCM.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The proxy`s trace file would point to option b.
  
 TBH I believe there is a problem in the way foo_dsd_queries the iDSD. If I'm right it asks for native DSD supported rates independently of the output mode selected and when source PCM is 48/96/192 it gets a negative and passes through unprocessed.
 As this plugin can be configured either for outputtinh native DSD or DoP, if any of the latter modes is selected it should query for supported DoP rates instead of native ASIO. If if worked that way it would be able to play up to 48k based DSD256 which is supported by the micro. The problem with Xmos drivers and 48k DSD only affects native DSD through ASIO, DoP is OK.


----------



## JavierS

jhwalker said:


> The iFi Micro iDSD can play DSD at either 44k or 48k rates.  I'm currently listening to a 24/96 file upsampled to 12,288,000 (i.e., DSD256, a 48k variant) via HQPlayer.


 
  
 In Windows, OSX or Linux?
  
 In Windows+HQPlayer I get those only if I select DoP under "SDM Pack" and then, of course, DSD512 is not available.


----------



## jhwalker

javiers said:


> In Windows, OSX or Linux?
> 
> In Windows+HQPlayer I get those only if I select DoP under "SDM Pack" and then, of course, DSD512 is not available.


 

 OS X.
  
 . . . and I'm using DoP at DSD256, not DSD512.
  
 Sorry, I thought you were asking if the 48k variants were supported - didn't notice you were talking about ASIO / DSD512.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> OK.
> 
> That still leaves me with a question. Clearly foo_dsd_asio does not convert the 48k files to DSD. The iDSD is receiving PCM.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 It does if set to DoP, which of course limits DSD to DSD256.
  
 The ASIO 2.2 Spec from Steinberg (downloadable from http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/developers.html) references only 44.1kHz based DSD.  Steinberg in turn references Sony. So strictly speaking 48kHz based DSD is not "legal" under ASIO Specifications up to Version 2.3.
  
 We agree that all of this is a bit silly, but short of having someone write a one-off Driver, which then would not be ASIO compliant to the letter of the spec, this is the situation we are left with.
  
 In general the whole ASIO System seems to attract almost zero development effort, it is not supported on Mac OSX and support under Linux is patchy (and we are being generous).
  
 Hence we put a LOT of R&D effort behind DoP and solving some of the issues that plague DoP. Our Firmware release 5.0 includes all these fixes. Only limitation at the moment, no DSD512.
  
 We may be able to support DSD512 via DoP in a future release for iDSD micro and Retro (the hardware is capable). 
  
 However this is as of now not a huge priority, as this in effect requires PCM 1.536MHz support, which does not, to our best knowledge, exist formally on any computing platform. 768kHz is the highest sample rate officially defined. At least you guys know your gear is future-proofed.
  
 Incidentally, this is why the internal R&D project name for the micro iDSD was 'Millenium Falcon' as it made the 'hyperspace jump' to DSD512 and PCM768.


----------



## kuekwee

I have some noob question here. Currently my setup is MBPr > Ifi > HD800. What other portable transporter is best suit? I tried Fiio X3ii X5ii, Ibasso DX50 DX80 and etc they all sound bad.


----------



## iFi audio

kuekwee said:


> I have some noob question here. Currently my setup is MBPr > Ifi > HD800. What other portable transporter is best suit? I tried Fiio X3ii X5ii, Ibasso DX50 DX80 and etc they all sound bad.


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 We use Sony Android phones (and apple iPhone). For the Sony, any of the Z series will work and they take SD micro cards. You need an OTG cable (though max SD capacity will vary between early and later models).
  
 Like this:
  

Source: http://ifi-audio.com/improve/


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Hi guys,

How to connect ifi micro idsd to ps3? Ps3 has optical out.


----------



## ClieOS

colonelbucket8 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> How to connect ifi micro idsd to ps3? Ps3 has optical out.


 
  
 With TOSlink (optical) cable of course, though I do believe you will need to disable multi channel output in PS3 for it to work with micro iDSD - can't confirm this as I don't own PS3.


----------



## iFi audio

k525 said:


> Hi
> 
> I tried with an USB HUB with own power supply but with no success, now I am tying Hibernating the Mac instead of simple memory sleep
> 
> Regards


 
  
 Hi,
  
 An active USB hub SHOULD keep the power on.
  
 So in the case of the iUSB3,0, then people leave it set to 'ON' so the connection does not drop.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## kuekwee

What's the best dsd/music player apps for android?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

kuekwee said:


> What's the best dsd/music player apps for android?


 

  ONKYO with it's FIR eq. If it had the playing screen of Hiby it would be the G.O.A.T but it's g.u.i is  kinda ...o.k.    IMO


----------



## Aradea

Subbed as I am looking for a desktop amp


----------



## ClieOS

kuekwee said:


> What's the best dsd/music player apps for android?


 
  
 USB Audio Player Pro isn't bad either. It probably has the most advanced features of all music app that works with USB DAC, but there is a slightly deeper learning curve.


----------



## spdtdl

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Go to:
> 
> ...


 
 I'm loving that tip, my mp3's have new life!


----------



## JootecFromMars

colonelbucket8 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> How to connect ifi micro idsd to ps3? Ps3 has optical out.


 
  
  


clieos said:


> With TOSlink (optical) cable of course, though I do believe you will need to disable multi channel output in PS3 for it to work with micro iDSD - can't confirm this as I don't own PS3.


 
  
 As ClieOS says but you'll also need to power it through USB (using a PS3 USB socket?) as it will eventually run out of battery.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Thank you guys. Really appreciate it.


----------



## kuekwee

Anyone using android tablet as transporter? how' the SQ compare with window laptop/desktop?


----------



## bavinck

kuekwee said:


> Anyone using android tablet as transporter? how' the SQ compare with window laptop/desktop?




Should be exactly the same sq.


----------



## kuekwee

bavinck said:


> Should be exactly the same sq.



i thought the same way too, but when I use different dap as transporter things change. Some give more bass and some more high. The different is very noticeable.


----------



## bavinck

kuekwee said:


> i thought the same way too, but when I use different dap as transporter things change. Some give more bass and some more high. The different is very noticeable.




Using a line out I could see that as you would still be using the dac (and maybe even amp if it is a crappy lo) on the transport. However, if you are merely using coax or optical out only the data is sent to the micro so I don't see how the sound could be affected.


----------



## kuekwee

bavinck said:


> Using a line out I could see that as you would still be using the dac (and maybe even amp if it is a crappy lo) on the transport. However, if you are merely using coax or optical out only the data is sent to the micro so I don't see how the sound could be affected.


 

 I am using coax out, yet it still can feel the different. For eq, yesterday i test fiio x5ii, cayenne n5 and ibasso dx80 all coax out.  All give different sq and the closest to laptop+jriver is cabin n5. Overall still lack of details, soundstage and clean. 
  
 before that i do have tried line out before, can't even last 1 song i put it back. fyi they give me quite decent cable not stock cable.


----------



## kuekwee

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We use Sony Android phones (and apple iPhone). For the Sony, any of the Z series will work and they take SD micro cards. You need an OTG cable (though max SD capacity will vary between early and later models).
> 
> ...


 

 How about Sony xperia z3 tablet? SQ good, i try on many portable dap with coax out sq really not on par.


----------



## ClieOS

jootecfrommars said:


> As ClieOS says but you'll also need to power it through USB (using a PS3 USB socket?) as it will eventually run out of battery.


 
  
 That might not work as iDSD will always choose USB connection over SPDIF  - so once you plug both in, iDSD will not pick up the optical signal until you disconnected the USB.
  


kuekwee said:


> Anyone using android tablet as transporter? how' the SQ compare with window laptop/desktop?


 
  
 With the right app, Android will sound just as good as any Windows setup - by 'right app', I mean either Onkyo HF Player, USB Audio Player Pro or HibyMusic - those app will bypass any limitation set by Android itself and give you the full experience.
  


kuekwee said:


> How about Sony xperia z3 tablet? SQ good, i try on many portable dap with coax out sq really not on par.


 
  
 Z3 tablet is fine - in fact it should work with iDSD even without any of the app mentioned above. Sony probably has the best audio driver implementation of any Android smartphone in the market. Still, I'll encourage you to try the apps I mentioned above.


----------



## iFi audio

kuekwee said:


> How about Sony xperia z3 tablet? SQ good, i try on many portable dap with coax out sq really not on par.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 You have to try the Z, Ultra, Z2, Z3, Z4 and Z5 and find what you like.  Personal taste (eg screen size) and cost are what it comes down to.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## JavierS

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> It does if set to DoP, which of course limits DSD to DSD256.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi,
  
 IMVHO, while strict compliance with the standard may be very important for a "sender" application/device which should not send "illegal" data (foo_asio_proxy, HQPlayer, etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)), I think it shouldn't be so important for a "receiver" such as as device driver as long as it means going beyond the specs (ie adding more functions/modes) as long as it meets all required functionality ensuring full compatibility with other ASIO compliant players. The Amanero driver supports 48x DSD in native mode ASIO as well as the legal 44,1K based and I've never heard of any problem caused by this "illegality". DSD1793 specs state it should top at 192K but we know it can go way beyond.... same with ASIO, a different matter is whether XMOS wants to add this funcionalityor not....hope at some point they decide to add it, it should be that much work.


----------



## Aradea

Guys,

Would this be a worthy investment for me if I dont have/wont play any DSD files? Strictly FLAC only and sometimes MP3 straight from my laptop


----------



## Music Path

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> You have to try the Z, Ultra, Z2, Z3, Z4 and Z5 and find what you like.  Personal taste (eg screen size) and cost are what it comes down to.
> 
> Enjoy!


 
 They didn´t changed much over the time. They are releasing a new model each 6 months.


----------



## Koolpep

aradea said:


> Guys,
> 
> Would this be a worthy investment for me if I dont have/wont play any DSD files? Strictly FLAC only and sometimes MP3 straight from my laptop


 

 Hell yes!!


----------



## 3rddimension

aradea said:


> Guys,
> 
> Would this be a worthy investment for me if I dont have/wont play any DSD files? Strictly FLAC only and sometimes MP3 straight from my laptop


 

 Definitely!


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> That might not work as iDSD will always choose USB connection over SPDIF  - so once you plug both in, iDSD will not pick up the optical signal until you disconnected the USB.
> 
> 
> With the right app, Android will sound just as good as any Windows setup - by 'right app', I mean either Onkyo HF Player, USB Audio Player Pro or HibyMusic - those app will bypass any limitation set by Android itself and give you the full experience.
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 See below:
  
 That might not work as iDSD will always choose USB connection over SPDIF  - so once you plug both in, iDSD will not pick up the optical signal until you disconnected the USB.
  
 - However, with USB power ONLY (charging from Orico or front USB port from PS3/PS4 which should only supply USB power (ie. no USB data), then the micro iDSD will auto default to SPDIF input. It is smart to detect no data (audio) and default to SPDIF input but still accept charge on USB. We already accounted for this at the design stage.
  
  
 With the right app, Android will sound just as good as any Windows setup - by 'right app', I mean either Onkyo HF Player, USB Audio Player Pro or HibyMusic - those app will bypass any limitation set by Android itself and give you the full experience.
  
 - yes, try and decide for yourself. and Hysolid which is the new kid on the app block.
  
  
 Z3 tablet is fine - in fact it should work with iDSD even without any of the app mentioned above. Sony probably has the best audio driver implementation of any Android smartphone in the market. Still, I'll encourage you to try the apps I mentioned above.
  
 - and of course the iDSD also plays PCM natively. It is just its moniker is iDSD. It could have been iDAC/DSD but that would have been too much of a mouthful. You get native PCM & DSD playback with all the iFi dacs (nano iDSD/iDAC2/micro iDSD, Retro Stereo 50).


----------



## iFi audio

aradea said:


> Guys,
> 
> Would this be a worthy investment for me if I dont have/wont play any DSD files? Strictly FLAC only and sometimes MP3 straight from my laptop


 
  
 Hi,
  
 See our latest answer - the iDSD plays back native PCM & DSD. Not just DSD.  So atypically, one gets the best of both worlds.  We could have called it 'micro iDSD/DAC' but that hardly rolls off one's tongue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Also, why settle for MP3 when you can transcode your MP3 > DSD256/512?
  
 We do this with MP3 only music such as the Glitch Mob (Tron Legacy R3configu3d OST) and it really polishes a poop recording (read: compressed to heck).
  

  
 You can download the tutorial here:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/computeraudiotutorial/
  
 Click on 'Enhanced Listening' enjoy.
  
 ps. this works for any DAC of course, it isnt limited to the iFi ones out there.


----------



## ClieOS

Thanks for the info.


----------



## kuekwee

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> See our latest answer - the iDSD plays back native PCM & DSD. Not just DSD.  So atypically, one gets the best of both worlds.  We could have called it 'micro iDSD/DAC' but that hardly rolls off one's tongue.
> 
> ...





 what's the purpose of upsampling?


----------



## Drunkbag

Where can I get this for $500?
 It costs $628 on Amazon which is slightly out of my budget


----------



## HotIce

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-237197-ifi-micro-idsd-dac.aspx?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=152906477090&gclid=CjwKEAiAk7O0BRD9_Ka2w_PhwSkSJAAmKswxvfoSYZf4ReX_Fu2I3fuELmpPCrkps9Njx3veqaHkKBoCR_Lw_wcB


----------



## Drunkbag

They don't ship outside of the US sadly


----------



## NeVeTaS

<<<<<>>>>>
 Directly into a USB3 port, using the supplied short blue cable.
  
 I tried:
  
 Google Music streaming, variety of different genres
 Google Music streaming with J River using the J river virtual soundcard (as described on the ifi website)
 David Elias (DSD64 Files)
 Upstreaming of my mp3 collection to DSD512 (granted my onboard sound can't do this, but used 320kbps mp3 on onboard sound to compare)
  
 The iDSD does sound great with all of this, no doubt about that. However my onboard sound is not noticeably different? Maybe I'm doing something wrong, hence the post. If anyone has a better way of testing I'd love to try it.
  
 Was using HD-650's & 400i's, my PC is a high spec gaming system (On Board Sound is ES9023P & RC4580). 
 <<<<<>>>>>
  
 Originally Posted by *technobear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 1. Which filter are you using (hint: it should be Bit Perfect). - _Tried them all_

 2. The device needs 200 hours of break in to achieve its full performance. - _Understood, but was hoping out the box it would out perform on board sound_

 3. Your headphones may not be up to revealing the differences. What are they? _Have tried HD-650, X2 & 400i_


----------



## technobear

drunkbag said:


> They don't ship outside of the US sadly




Perhaps if you fill in the 'Location' part of your profile we can be more helpful


----------



## technobear

nevetas said:


> <<<<<>>>>>
> Directly into a USB3 port, using the supplied short blue cable.
> 
> I tried:
> ...




I'm surprised it doesn't outperform the onboard DAC given that I have yet to hear a good DAC based on the ES9023 (but have heard a few so so ones).

However break in is very real and particularly where SMD devices and low ESR capacitors are concerned. The growing pains can be quite unpleasant on the way to the final sound.

Definitely avoid the 'Standard' filter. That epitomises much that is wrong with digital audio. Stick with one of the other two.


----------



## Drunkbag

I just did 
I'm from Israel


----------



## NeVeTaS

I'm not sure where the ES9023P fits on the DAC food chain. Possibly mid range with the 9018S being the flagship? I'm also not sure on what kind of power / specs the RC4580 on-board amp chip is putting out. I need 70% volume for on-board to drive the 400i nicely.
  
 Do you know any good tracks and/or methods, that can run dac's / amp's through their paces, and show the flaws in inferior equipment?


----------



## technobear

drunkbag said:


> I just did
> I'm from Israel




Ah, that's a tough one. Over to iFi to answer that one as nothing is showing for Israel on their website.


----------



## technobear

nevetas said:


> I'm not sure where the ES9023P fits on the DAC food chain. Possibly mid range with the 9018S being the flagship? I'm also not sure on what kind of power / specs the RC4580 on-board amp chip is putting out. I need 70% volume for on-board to drive the 400i nicely.
> 
> Do you know any good tracks and/or methods, that can run dac's / amp's through their paces, and show the flaws in inferior equipment?




You can start by avoiding MP3 for the crime against music that it is.


----------



## NeVeTaS

technobear said:


> You can start by avoiding MP3 for the crime against music that it is.


 
  
 So, for example, lets say I want to get the new coldplay album.
  
 How do I go about getting it, high quality non mp3? Should it be flac, dsd... ???
  
 Hopefully not by ripping a physical cd, because I no longer have any optical drives.


----------



## Drunkbag

Yeah, the cheapest I can get it is for $600 from eBay, but that's still a bit too much
 Are there any good alternatives? I will be using an IEM (Aurisonics Harmony)


----------



## NeVeTaS

How about the ifi iDAC2?


----------



## mbusby

drunkbag said:


> Yeah, the cheapest I can get it is for $600 from eBay, but that's still a bit too much
> Are there any good alternatives? I will be using an IEM (Aurisonics Harmony)


 
  
 I've purchased the iDSD and iCAN from here for less than the prices you have quoted:
  
 http://www.ttvjaudio.com/


----------



## coastal1

coastal1 said:


> So is something like using a Pure I-20 dock the best option for using an Ipod Classic (6th/7th gen) with the micro, or is there another connection that doesnt required an iPod dock?


 
  
 I realize that the Micro doesn't officially support extraction of a digital signal from the iPod Classic, but what's the best 'unofficial' option?  Using the Micro as a DAC to the Liquid Carbon amp.  Is something like the Pure I-20 the best option to bypass the Ipod DAC, or would a simple line out from the Ipod's 30 pin to the Micro's 3.5mm input work just as well?  http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L-Shaped-Line-Cable-iPhone/dp/B005N6ZAT2


----------



## NeVeTaS

After some enlightening posts from 'Technobear' and my iDSD quivering in it's boots during the 7 day return period, I set upon a quest to see if I can fall in love with this silver box of tricks.
  
 Rather than swapping between foobar and JRiver, tonight I focused on JRiver and created a number of zones. Native DSD, upscaling MP3, Direct & various others. I also filled my hard drives with some higher quality FLAC's, and even managed to find some DSD's into the test.
  
 I started at the bottom of the pile, comparing a 10 year old mp3 on the iDSD to a 10 year old mp3 on my PC. This resulted in me unable to tell a difference. My thoughts are my on-board ES9023P can eat 128-256kbps mp3's all day long. Think of it as a ford focus & an Aston Martin - they can both cruise at 60mph on the motorway without breaking a sweat.
  
 Getting nowhere with mp3's I moved onto FLAC, on checking my settings it would appear on previous FLAC test's I was using the same settings as the mp3 upscaling technique, basically upscaling FLAC's to 512DSD. After I RTFM'ed I discovered
  
 "Note to users:
 I. We do not recommend converting lossless PCM tracks to DSD or altering lossless
 tracks. We recommend that they are played in their respective native format - PCM
 tracks remain PCM and DSD tracks remain DSD."
  
 My n00b status was confirmed as that is exactly what I had been doing. I have now created a new zone for FLAC's which uses the iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio [ASIO] rather than going through the proxy > DSD. So, did it make a difference, to my ears yes. Sounded greatly improved.
  
 Back to the comparison, with FLAC songs loaded into the chambers of both the iDSD and my on-board, the gauntlet had been raised... Like the final scenes of a movie where the good guy wins, the iDSD started taking chunks out of my on-board blow by blow. The drum intro on "In the Air Tonight" sounded as if I was in the room with 400i's & iDSD. The on-board was not knocked out, but whereas the iDSD put me in the same room, my on-board had me in the next room.
  
 Similar results were experienced with all the higher quality audio tracks I used for comparison. Basically if you try and compare schiit mp3's with schiit mp3's the results are that your going to hear schiit.
  
 A combination of wrong settings, low quality media & my wallet being sore after a large investment put a dampener on my first test. However with 'Technobear's suggestions test 2 has the iDSD ahead. Before we all starting dancing around the room in the iDSD glory, I have to bring it back down to reality. The iDSD is not £500 better than my on-board sound, but my PC costs 10 times that, so it should be putting up a pretty good fight! This, however is audiophile maths, because 2k headphones are not twice as good as 1k headphones, yet they still sell like hot cakes.
  
 The feather in the cap with the iDSD is that I can use it also with my phone and my laptop, on which it blows the ruddy doors off the on-board. So for that, it gets to keep one foot in the door for now.
  
 I'm wondering if iDAC2 & iCAN SE would of been the wiser choice, who knows.....
  
 For now I'm going back to listen to some more David Elias, my iDSD affection is growing....


----------



## rickyleelee

if nada in israel, try nearest country or countries? i failed geography at jumior school.


----------



## Koolpep

coastal1 said:


> I realize that the Micro doesn't officially support extraction of a digital signal from the iPod Classic, but what's the best 'unofficial' option?  Using the Micro as a DAC to the Liquid Carbon amp.  Is something like the Pure I-20 the best option to bypass the Ipod DAC, or would a simple line out from the Ipod's 30 pin to the Micro's 3.5mm input work just as well?  http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L-Shaped-Line-Cable-iPhone/dp/B005N6ZAT2


 

 That won't get you digital, just a line out. As far as I know the iPod classic's DAC cannot be easily bypassed. Of course you can use the iPods line out via this cable you mentioned and use the iDSD as an amp only.
  
 cheers,
 K


----------



## iFi audio

nevetas said:


> After some enlightening posts from 'Technobear' and my iDSD quivering in it's boots during the 7 day return period, I set upon a quest to see if I can fall in love with this silver box of tricks.
> 
> .......
> For now I'm going back to listen to some more David Elias, my iDSD affection is growing....


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Others have already provided useful inputs. We can only add that if using Google Music, set the volume control to maximum (100%) otherwise everything is truncated. And adjust the volume on the iDSD micro to 12-3 o clock range (will vary from recording to recording).
  
 Also, Google Music is MP3. FLAC non-lossy would be a better choice. Also, try the different filters, standard is the one that sounds most like: "everything else" we prefer "Bit-Perfect."
  
 Your HD-650s are well up to the job. Being pretty sensitive Eco/Normal, dont use Turbo.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> That might not work as iDSD will always choose USB connection over SPDIF  - so once you plug both in, iDSD will not pick up the optical signal until you disconnected the USB.


 
  
 Just to add;
  
 Using 4.06 Firmware USB will only be selected if an actual audio stream is being played, otherwise switchover to SPDIF is transparent.
  
 The new version 6.6 core XMOS code our customised V 5.0 firmware is based upon changed some critical behaviours in the USB core that caused this functionality to 'break' this is unavoidable at the moment.
  
 Our Software team knows about this however this in effect means a full re-write of the USB communication module, not a trivial task.
  
 In the interim, if it is required to have either a USB Charger or a standard USB port attached while playing SPDIF, please downgrade your firmware to 4.06 (available from iFi's website).
  
 Cheers.


----------



## NeVeTaS

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Others have already provided useful inputs. We can only add that if using Google Music, set the volume control to maximum (100%) otherwise everything is truncated. And adjust the volume on the iDSD micro to 12-3 o clock range (will vary from recording to recording).
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the tips.
  
 Streaming is a tough one as your stuck with mp3, yet you discover a whole new world of Music. At the moment I use the JRiver virtual sound card with ReLife & DeHarsh.
  
 I know newer doesn't always mean better, but is iDAC2 & iCAN SE a better option for me? I can't see myself having a vast array of DSD files, so looks like I'm in a world of Google Music & FLAC's.


----------



## iFi audio

nevetas said:


> Thanks for the tips.
> 
> Streaming is a tough one as your stuck with mp3, yet you discover a whole new world of Music. At the moment I use the JRiver virtual sound card with ReLife & DeHarsh.
> 
> I know newer doesn't always mean better, but is iDAC2 & iCAN SE a better option for me? I can't see myself having a vast array of DSD files, so looks like I'm in a world of Google Music & FLAC's.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 See post #18.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/773308/ifi-audio-micro-idac2/15#post_12225572
  
  
 micro iDSD is 50:50 portable/desktop.
  
 iDAC2 is 90:10 in favour of desktop.
  
 It really boils down to how much portable use you have as nDSD, iDAC2, mDSD and Retro are all from the same B-B family. It is just getting the right tool for the job. Sonically, the iDAC2 doesnt give much away to the mDSD. It loses just on the headphone flexibility. Though with your HD650s, it is still fine to partner with the iDAC2 as is.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ClieOS

ifi audio said:


> Just to add;
> 
> Using 4.06 Firmware USB will only be selected if an actual audio stream is being played, otherwise switchover to SPDIF is transparent.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah, no wonder it doesn't seem to detect my SPDIF source when I have my iDSD connected to a USB power source, since I have the v.5.0 vanilla installed. No biggie, I don't really use SPDIF much anyway.


----------



## Narcissus

I have read in several posts that the idsd has quite a powerful preamp. Can someone please tell me if it'll be able to drive 30K input of my amps, does it have 6V RMS?


----------



## iFi audio

narcissus said:


> I have read in several posts that the idsd has quite a powerful preamp. Can someone please tell me if it'll be able to drive 30K input of my amps, does it have 6V RMS?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The micro iDSD can drive 10k and above. So 30k should be fine. Also, it can reach 5V (and more) in Turbo mode so your query for 6V should be still leave enough in reserve. Obviously set to Turbo which gives the most drive as it can actually reach up to 10v but we stated a more conservative figure.
  
 Specification overview here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/
  
 Specs are just a guide. Use our Support Ticket System and one of the techies will give you a more informative/accurate reply.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## technobear

narcissus said:


> I have read in several posts that the idsd has quite a powerful preamp. Can someone please tell me if it'll be able to drive 30K input of my amps, does it have 6V RMS?




What kind of power amp needs 6V input?

Most require in the range 0.5 to 1V.


----------



## technobear

drunkbag said:


> Yeah, the cheapest I can get it is for $600 from eBay, but that's still a bit too much
> Are there any good alternatives? I will be using an IEM (Aurisonics Harmony)




Remember that if buying from an EU outlet, the price quoted will include VAT which is usually around 20%.

As a non-EU purchaser, you do not need to pay EU VAT.

Get the supplier on the phone and ask for an ex-VAT export price.

You may still have to pay import or sales taxes on entry to Israel.


----------



## technobear

coastal1 said:


> coastal1 said:
> 
> 
> > So is something like using a Pure I-20 dock the best option for using an Ipod Classic (6th/7th gen) with the micro, or is there another connection that doesnt required an iPod dock?
> ...




The Pure I-20 will not extract a digital output from the iPod Classic.

Only iPod Touch had digital output capability.


----------



## mbusby

technobear said:


> The Pure I-20 will not extract a digital output from the iPod Classic.
> 
> Only iPod Touch had digital output capability.


 
  
 That is not correct. The I-20 is licensed by Apple and has the hardware chip that allows it to negotiate a connection to the iPod Classic digital out. You can also connect to the line out of the iPod Classic, which does not require a license. See the I-20 user manual for details.


----------



## technobear

mbusby said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > The Pure I-20 will not extract a digital output from the iPod Classic.
> ...




The Pure page I visited did not have that level of detail.

The retail sites I visited suggested that only the iPad and iPod Touch are compatible.

However, more digging on the Pure I-20 has turned up this:



So it would seem some later models of the Classic from 2007 and 2009 are in fact supported. 

Thank you mbusby.


----------



## EVOLVIST

technobear said:


> Thank you mbusby.




Matt Busby?


----------



## Narcissus

technobear said:


> What kind of power amp needs 6V input?
> 
> Most require in the range 0.5 to 1V.




I have the Pass Labs XA 100.5 monoblocks, please check the link for specs....

https://passlabs.com/products/amplifiers/point-5/xa100.5


----------



## Narcissus

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The micro iDSD can drive 10k and above. So 30k should be fine. Also, it can reach 5V (and more) in Turbo mode so your query for 6V should be still leave enough in reserve. Obviously set to Turbo which gives the most drive as it can actually reach up to 10v but we stated a more conservative figure.
> 
> ...




Thank you for your prompt reply, I have opened a ticket with my query to the technical dept as per your suggestion.

I can't help but notice the professionalism and speed at which IFI/AMR responds and caters to queries, here on this forum as well as their company site, I'm very very impressed.


----------



## EVOLVIST

narcissus said:


> I can't help but notice the professionalism and speed at which IFI/AMR responds and caters to queries, here on this forum as well as their company site, I'm very very impressed.




Yeah, this is true. I haven't found any audio company with this type of excellent customer service. They know what they're doing, that's for sure.


----------



## technobear

narcissus said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of power amp needs 6V input?
> ...




The "Full XA.5 Series Specs" PDF says that the XA100.5 requires 1.41V for full output.


----------



## dharma

I have iFi Micro iDSD (was originally coming with 4.06 firmware) for a week or so... sound-wise I like them a lot, thanks...

 I have *problem with USB-3 connections* (PC, 2014 production, Intel i7, 16GB RAM, MSI gaming-motherboard)
 I can't get rid of *random* weaker clicks and louder cracks during listening of music. It was more annoying with original 4.06 firmware, after updating to latest v5 firmware, there is less cliks/cracks, but still all time there (no 'clean' signal over 15 sec is possible?!).

 But everything is OK with USB-2 connection...
  
 Nothing changes if trying different setups on iDSD itself.
  
 Software in user is Foobar200 and changing any changeable parameters there did not helped to get rid of clicks at all
  
*If I stick with USB-2 connection only, am I missing something or not??*
  
 Thank You for possible solutions-suggestions...
  
*EDIT/added:* Important, upper-mentioned problem was some mysterious 'week ago' problem, just now I switched back from USB-2 to USB-3 connection and for some mysterious reason (iDSD *burn-in?*) now there is only minor (not loud) clicks, about 1 during one minute with USB-3 connection. I did not changed anything during the week (nor with PC, nor with iDSD device, nor with Foobar2000 setup). HMM! Maye soon are all *USB-3* related clicks gone?


----------



## Drunkbag

technobear said:


> Remember that if buying from an EU outlet, the price quoted will include VAT which is usually around 20%.
> 
> As a non-EU purchaser, you do not need to pay EU VAT.
> 
> ...


 

 In the end I decided to take quite a sharp turn and buy a ZMF Blackwood and a Vali 2+Modi 2 Uber
 Thank you for your help though!


----------



## coastal1

mbusby said:


> That is not correct. The I-20 is licensed by Apple and has the hardware chip that allows it to negotiate a connection to the iPod Classic digital out. You can also connect to the line out of the iPod Classic, which does not require a license. See the I-20 user manual for details.


 
  
 Thanks very much.  So with I-20, can I bypass the Ipod DAC and the I-20 DAC and use the Micro's DAC?
  
 Whereas something like this would not bypass the iPod DAC? http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-20-Inch-Line-Cable-iPhone/dp/B005DK08X6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8


----------



## ClieOS

coastal1 said:


> Whereas something like this would not bypass the iPod DAC? http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-20-Inch-Line-Cable-iPhone/dp/B005DK08X6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8


 
  
 Most definitely won't


----------



## mbusby

coastal1 said:


> Thanks very much.  So with I-20, can I bypass the Ipod DAC and the I-20 DAC and use the Micro's DAC?
> 
> Whereas something like this would not bypass the iPod DAC? http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-20-Inch-Line-Cable-iPhone/dp/B005DK08X6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8


 
  
 Correct.


----------



## rickyleelee

Reminds me the local distributor told me some they ask ifi questions when they have a major head ache problem on other brands they have. as not all companies answer questions well like them. dont know if true maybe bs


----------



## alife

I recently purchased a used micro iDSD and have two questions to which I haven't been able to find answers online:
  
 1. Is there a way to check the unit's firmware version using a Windows PC?  (The support page tells one how to do it for a Mac, which I don't have.  I have tried looking through Control Panel entries, but with no luck.)
  
 2.  Any opinions on SQ using coax in (not optical, but digital audio) vs. USB?
  
 Thanks much.


----------



## spdtdl

Run this:
  
C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe


----------



## technobear

alife said:


> I recently purchased a used micro iDSD and have two questions to which I haven't been able to find answers online:
> 
> [COLOR=888888]1. Is there a way to check the unit's firmware version using a Windows PC?  (The support page tells one how to do it for a Mac, which I don't have.  I have tried looking through Control Panel entries, but with no luck.)
> [/COLOR]
> ...




If you can use USB then use USB.

Optical is fine for the TV though.


----------



## alife

Thanks for the quick and helpful responses!
  
 I see my unit has firmware version 4.04 (the serial number of the unit is in red ink, which, from what I understand, implies it's one of the early units).
  
 Would it make sense to upgrade to the latest firmware?  I'm not experiencing any issues, but was wondering if there are any general benefits.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## dharma

alife said:


> Thanks for the quick and helpful responses!
> 
> I see my unit has firmware version 4.04 (the serial number of the unit is in red ink, which, from what I understand, implies it's one of the early units).
> 
> ...


 

 Absolutely! Read iFi webpages about new firmware v5 three versions


----------



## EVOLVIST

rickyleelee said:


> Reminds me the local distributor told me some they ask ifi questions when they have a major head ache problem on other brands they have. as not all companies answer questions well like them. dont know if true maybe bs




I've heard something similar from a reputable source. 

I think there's more that goes on behind the magic curtain than we know. In other words, the companies that truly innovate are extremely few - maybe even a handful - while the copycats are much greater than we think. R&D for some companies means simply Repeat & Deceive.

iFi happens to be the real deal.


----------



## dharma

evolvist said:


> I've heard something similar from a reputable source.
> 
> I think there's more that goes on behind the magic curtain than we know. In other words, the companies that truly innovate are extremely few - maybe even a handful - while the c*opycats are much greater than we think. *R&D for some companies means simply Repeat & Deceive.
> 
> iFi happens to be the real deal.


 
  
 Maybe, that's the reason why there is quite good 'their own' Made In China stuff last few years (not speaking here about making just for important international audiophile companies)


----------



## PabloSRT8

Good morning! I'm finally getting a Micro iDSD and I have two question, does it matter if my DAP is an X1 or Sony A17 since I'm not using their amps/dacs or does it still make a difference if I get an X3, X3ii or X5ii?
Which RCA cables do you recomend to go to my tube amp that won't break the bank?
My iPhone 6s Plus makes an interference sound every 5 minutes, sound like when you about to get a call, like data is being sent or received. (When hooked up to little dot, the sound is multiplied by 10!)
Thank you!!!


----------



## dharma

pablosrt8 said:


> Good morning! I'm finally getting a Micro iDSD and I have two question, does it matter if my DAP is an X1 or Sony A17 since I'm not using their amps/dacs or does it still make a difference if I get an X3, X3ii or X5ii?
> Which RCA cables do you recomend to go to my tube amp that won't break the bank?
> My iPhone 6s Plus makes an interference sound every 5 minutes, sound like when you about to get a call, like data is being sent or received. (When hooked up to little dot, the sound is multiplied by 10!)
> Thank you!!!


 
  
 There already was information about using different DAP's with iDSD, you can read all pages 'backwards' (for about 25 pages or so)
 Discussion about 'cables' (including RCA) is never ending story... 'middle way' is to go with any well built (strong, thick and with 'golden' plugs).
 Hope that someone can comment about your iPhone


----------



## technobear

pablosrt8 said:


> Good morning! I'm finally getting a Micro iDSD and I have two question, does it matter if my DAP is an X1 or Sony A17 since I'm not using their amps/dacs or does it still make a difference if I get an X3, X3ii or X5ii?




I would choose the Sony as it can do USB OTG (using the reassuringly expensive Sony proprietary OTG cable).

The X1 doesn't have a digital output.

The X3, X3ii and X5ii all only have coaxial S/P-DIF.

What is your definition of "won't break the bank"?

The cables that ship with the iDSD are decent.


----------



## dharma

technobear said:


> I would choose the Sony as it can do USB OTG (using the reassuringly expensive Sony proprietary OTG cable).
> 
> [...]


 
  
 one non-proprietary 'universal' here, or other similar are OK?


----------



## ClieOS

dharma said:


> one non-proprietary 'universal' here, or other similar are OK?


 
  
 No, only the official Sony WMC-NWH10 will do.


----------



## kuekwee

pablosrt8 said:


> Good morning! I'm finally getting a Micro iDSD and I have two question, does it matter if my DAP is an X1 or Sony A17 since I'm not using their amps/dacs or does it still make a difference if I get an X3, X3ii or X5ii?
> Which RCA cables do you recomend to go to my tube amp that won't break the bank?
> My iPhone 6s Plus makes an interference sound every 5 minutes, sound like when you about to get a call, like data is being sent or received. (When hooked up to little dot, the sound is multiplied by 10!)
> Thank you!!!


 

 I'm not sure about Sony, i tried on all the Fiio product you mention.  I didn't buy any, if you compare USB-omputer vs Coax-Fiio, it makes a big different level. Non on the Fiio is close to the SQ of iDsd. Next i would like to try android phone too.


----------



## PabloSRT8

kuekwee said:


> I'm not sure about Sony, i tried on all the Fiio product you mention.  I didn't buy any, if you compare USB-omputer vs Coax-Fiio, it makes a big different level. Non on the Fiio is close to the SQ of iDsd. Next i would like to try android phone too.



Thank you for the response. I have the iDSD home and I pair it with my iPhone 6s+ using Onkyo player, Grado SR325 and Some DSD music, also bought Roger Waters and Supertramp 192khz from hdtracks.
It sounds really good and they are about the same height so they look good together.
It does make the Grados sound brighter than what I would want them to thou.
Otherwise I'm happy with setup and probably won't be getting a Dap, since digital signal is just digital right?thanks again.


----------



## iFi audio

dharma said:


> I have iFi Micro iDSD (was originally coming with 4.06 firmware) for a week or so... sound-wise I like them a lot, thanks...
> 
> I have *problem with USB-3 connections* (PC, 2014 production, Intel i7, 16GB RAM, MSI gaming-motherboard)
> I can't get rid of *random* weaker clicks and louder cracks during listening of music. It was more annoying with original 4.06 firmware, after updating to latest v5 firmware, there is less cliks/cracks, but still all time there (no 'clean' signal over 15 sec is possible?!).
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 It is hard to be sure what is going on. Some USB 3 Chipsets/Drivers are known to have an issue. Running on USB 2.0 is fine.
  
 Please open a Ticket on the Support system if you would like our technicians to look a little more into the USB 3.0 Issue with you.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## kuekwee

Anyone have pair iDSD with Sony ZX2 ?


----------



## dharma

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is hard to be sure what is going on. Some USB 3 Chipsets/Drivers are known to have issue. Running on USB 2.0 is fine.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank You for comment!
  
 Strangely, it seems that for now almost all clicks are 'vanished' when connecting through USB-3.
 I could even use coax-out with PC, because MSI motherboard's 'built-in soundcard' has actually coax-out (up to 192/24) too.
 Actually it's good anyway that even newest PC-s have older *USB-2 connection too*, because some USB-devices (like some video-capture etc. cards) work properly through USB-2 but not with USB-3.


----------



## iFi audio

kuekwee said:


> Anyone have pair iDSD with Sony ZX2 ?


 
  
 Yes, 'pairable' with the ZX2. You may wish to look at this first.
  
 Level 2 and upwards - mainly the dedicated Sony connection cable.
1 x Sony USB conversion cable for audio output WMC-NWH10
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/improve/page/2/

 We have Z2 phone and Z2 tablet (with OTG).


----------



## chillaxing

Are there any plans for a iDSD micro SE with a bass boost like the iCAN?


----------



## dharma

chillaxing said:


> Are there any plans for a iDSD micro SE with a bass boost like the iCAN?


 
  
 Micro iDSD has 'bass boost' XBass (one switchable level)


----------



## ebe2000

Are there any plans by Ifi to come out with a balanced iDSD?


----------



## dharma

ebe2000 said:


> Are there any plans by Ifi to come out with a balanced iDSD?


 
  
 I think You can have some 'good promising' details about coming iFi Audio PRO series here https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio/posts/839241582778252
 and here http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread


----------



## grizzlybeast

​​ *ifI iDSD Micro Impressions*​  ​  
 I have had this piece of gear for a week or so. It was passed on to me from @nmatheis  when I didn't really have anything to run the HEX off of because my desktop was being fixed. So I had it up against my desktop one it got fixed geek pulse infinity>liquid carbon not to really compare between the two but to just get my bearings. 
  
 Things I noticed:

VERY POWERFUL
Detailed and transparent
Good imaging/ decent soundstage
less meshy sounding than the JDS Labs Element if I recall right but could be wrong the Element has more bass warmth if I recall right but is more fun sounding overall.
Good build
tons of options!
no noise with the iem I tried here. 
not gritty sounding
fast transients
not really aggressive and good balanced sound
 Things I didn't like:

bass boost is very mediocre at best, actually kinda sucks
3d switch is good on some recordings but really is just boosting the volume, presence region, and lower treble. I get a bit more height but that's all I can detect. 
  
  
 I don't really want to compare the DAC section to my infinity because it's not really fair. but the Inifinity DAC has a less prominent upper mid section and tighter bass with a more spacious sound. 
  
 AMP section vs the Liquid Carbon (with IDSD as DAC) reveals the amp is pretty strong in the presence region, possibly the dac again but also not as good at imaging and sound separation. An instant switch to the DSD and the sound flattens in depth of dimension and width but still maintains a good amount of transparency and detail retrieval. The micro dynamics flatten a bit too when I switch and the bass is less tight. The bass loses a smidgen of density and weight. While I can say that the iDSD is transparent, its def not on the same level as the Liquid carbon. Again, this is with the IDSD as the DAC feeding both and the ability to switch in between the two very easily. They are not meant to be in the same class but this is just incase someone was wondering. Also I should mention that I had to use the inferior single end of the Liquid carbon to test these two together instead of my balanced cable. 
  
 I have read the Ifi being boring but I do not understand that review on Headfonia. Imo, even though the bass isn't the star of the show, its a forthright and full sounding piece of gear with the ability to translate the musics energy properly. For a portable piece of gear I am actually impressed that I get sound this good. Very Impressed!!! Sure the instruments do not have the localization of the LC or the DAC be on the same level as the infinity plus lps but But I would be very sad if my desktop gear didn't handily beat it.
  
  I would buy one and just might. Usually after actually hearing gear I nitpick at something and want to go and search for something else instead but not here. 
 This is my first audition of an Ifi product.   Is it Ifi or ifI  i dont know whatever it sounds good to me. You may notice the volume difference. The ifI is very powerful. More so than the other pieces of gear here. 
​​ ​  
​  ​  ​


----------



## gr8soundz

Nice impressions of the Micro.
  
 Originally got a Micro was to transcode to DSD on the fly (to remove harshness). Recently made some tweaks to my desktop setup and can't think of a more versatile dac/amp. Every time I get used to the Micro's sound, changing the digital filter or using the xbass/3d makes it sound like a different dac/amp. Rarely use the Turbo mode but know it has lots of power to spare and I like having the option of using it on battery too (for less usb noise).
  
 Hard to believe its portable. Even harder to beat as an all-in-one desktop solution without spending a lot more (for small improvements).


----------



## Chodi

grizzlybeast said:


> ​​ *ifI iDSD Micro Impressions*​  ​
> I have had this piece of gear for a week or so. It was passed on to me from @nmatheis  when I didn't really have anything to run the HEX off of because my desktop was being fixed. So I had it up against my desktop one it got fixed geek pulse infinity>liquid carbon not to really compare between the two but to just get my bearings.
> 
> Things I noticed:
> ...


 
 Outstanding work! I have read through much of this thread considering this as an alternative to my desktop system, not a replacement, and you nailed it for me. Excellent description in every sense and one of the most useful in this very long thread.


----------



## doctorcilantro

jhwalker said:


> If you will be using the volume control on the Yamaha RX V357, set the iDSD Output to "Direct" - this will put the iDSD in "line out" mode, and will be the best setting if you are using the volume control on the Yamaha.
> 
> If you want to use the volume control of the iDSD and leave the Yamaha set to a fixed volume, set the iDSD to "Preamplifier" - this will allow the volume to be controlled from the iDSD.
> 
> In general, I would think you'd want to set the iDSD to "Direct" and control the volume via the Yamaha.


 

 I used my iDSD in Direct while waiting for my Vega DAC to return. Sounded great and DSD256 with no hiccups using JRMC.


----------



## halcyon

Has anybody measured the latency of iDSD in ms (via DirectSound or CoreAudio, under Win8/10 x64)? Is it low enough to be useful for gaming?


----------



## iFi audio

halcyon said:


> Has anybody measured the latency of iDSD in ms (via DirectSound or CoreAudio, under Win8/10 x64)? Is it low enough to be useful for gaming?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Latency depends on Driver Buffer settings (ASIO) and on sample rate. Using the standard USB Drivers OSX/Windows manages the buffers.
  
 Windows Audio running in Shared Mode always has 10mS buffering (latency), iDSD micro (especially in DSD mode or in Bitperfect) has much less delay than that.
 With ASIO sound or WASAPI latency may be less than 10mS, depending on the buffer settings ASIO may also have substantially more latency than 10mS.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## kuekwee

Hi, wanna ask anyone upgrade their stock USB cable? Which one is good?


----------



## spdtdl

I tried 5 different USB3 cables from cheap to medium price (£50ish) couldn't tell them apart.
  
 But I do have a high end PC with shielded board, so your mileage may vary.


----------



## iFi audio

kuekwee said:


> Hi, wanna ask anyone upgrade their stock USB cable? Which one is good?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 If you like, you can read up on the background on what is from our technical point of view, the characteristics a good-uqality USB audio cable should have. Once you have this in mind, then you can sift through the different USB cables out there.
  
 This is for the USB2.0 type but applies to USB2.0 and USB3.0 cables.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/GeminiUSBCable.pdf
  
 Cheers.


----------



## kuekwee

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you like, you can read up on the background on what is from our technical point of view, the characteristics a good-uqality USB audio cable should have. Once you have this in mind, then you can sift through the different USB cables out there.
> 
> ...


 
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you like, you can read up on the background on what is from our technical point of view, the characteristics a good-uqality USB audio cable should have. Once you have this in mind, then you can sift through the different USB cables out there.
> 
> ...


 

 Ifi don't have Male A to Female A USB cable?


----------



## Koolpep

kuekwee said:


> Ifi don't have Male A to Female A USB cable?


 

 Yes, it comes with your ifi iDSD micro, LOL


----------



## howdy

I have a DX90, is Coax the best way to connect to this?


----------



## ClieOS

howdy said:


> I have a DX90, is Coax the best way to connect to this?


 
  
 Coax is the only way for a DX90 to connect digitally to the micro iDSD, unless of course you want to feed DX90's line-out to micro iDSD and use it purely as amp.


----------



## howdy

clieos said:


> Coax is the only way for a DX90 to connect digitally to the micro iDSD, unless of course you want to feed DX90's line-out to micro iDSD and use it purely as amp.



 

Good to know, thanks.

Have you ever compared this to the Mojo? This seems like it would be more bang for the buck.


----------



## ClieOS

howdy said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Coax is the only way for a DX90 to connect digitally to the micro iDSD, unless of course you want to feed DX90's line-out to micro iDSD and use it purely as amp.
> ...


 
  
 It is. I do own both micro iDSD and Mojo. Both are great DAC/amp on its own right. Mojo is by far one of the best sounding DAC/amp of its size that I have ever listened to, and micro iDSD is nothing less in comparison on SQ, but offer a bit more features and versatility, plus a cheaper price tag. Those aside however,  I think it is more down to personal preference on which one like better than any technical superiority.


----------



## knorris908

clieos said:


> It is. I do own both micro iDSD and Mojo. Both are great DAC/amp on its own right. Mojo is by far one of the best sounding DAC/amp of its size that I have ever listened to, and micro iDSD is nothing less in comparison on SQ, but offer a bit more features and versatility, plus a cheaper price tag. Those aside however,  I think it is more down to personal preference on which one like better than any technical superiority.


 

 I'd have to agree based on principal, as I have not heard the MOJO yet.  But against the Full grown HUGO, my iDSD held its own.  Liked it say, almost 90% as much as HUGO.  MUCH less money.


----------



## howdy

knorris908 said:


> I'd have to agree based on principal, as I have not heard the MOJO yet.  But against the Full grown HUGO, my iDSD held its own.  Liked it say, almost 90% as much as HUGO.  MUCH less money.



 

That's good to hear. I read your review and you pair the DX90 with the DSD, are you still? Is there a difference now that you have it longer since your review? Nothing against the Mojo as I loved that thing, (I had it for 10 days) but there seems to be some issues arising here and there and the DSD seems to be built like a tank. The Mojo seems pretty rugged minus the balls, Im not sure how they are going to hold after months or years of use.


----------



## howdy

clieos said:


> It is. I do own both micro iDSD and Mojo. Both are great DAC/amp on its own right. Mojo is by far one of the best sounding DAC/amp of its size that I have ever listened to, and micro iDSD is nothing less in comparison on SQ, but offer a bit more features and versatility, plus a cheaper price tag. Those aside however,  I think it is more down to personal preference on which one like better than any technical superiority.



 

Over the years I have always trusted your reviews and replies, this just seems like it would make more sense to own long term.


----------



## xanlamin

howdy said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > It is. I do own both micro iDSD and Mojo. Both are great DAC/amp on its own right. Mojo is by far one of the best sounding DAC/amp of its size that I have ever listened to, and micro iDSD is nothing less in comparison on SQ, but offer a bit more features and versatility, plus a cheaper price tag. Those aside however,  I think it is more down to personal preference on which one like better than any technical superiority.
> ...


 
  
 Mojo is a bit more refined but I'm sticking with iDSD for it versatility and ease of use. I just can't get use to using buttons for volume control.


----------



## howdy

xanlamin said:


> Mojo is a bit more refined but I'm sticking with iDSD for it versatility and ease of use. I just can't get use to using buttons for volume control.



 

That's good to hear. Is the iDSD have that "crisp" sound? Also, I may have missed while searching through reviews and the thread but are there any issues with Apple hooking to this and streaming Tidal?


----------



## knorris908

howdy said:


> knorris908 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd have to agree based on principal, as I have not heard the MOJO yet.  But against the Full grown HUGO, my iDSD held its own.  Liked it say, almost 90% as much as HUGO.  MUCH less money.
> ...


 

Hi Howdy!

Yes, I still listen to my DX90 through my iDSD. I just fell asleep listening to the combo last night. Had a mini-RUSH-fest grouping Grace Under Pressure, Moving Pictures, and Permanent Waves. By the time I had gotten to Peter Gabriel, I was dozing off. I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase with my Beyerdynamics T1 ver.2 headphones. Though the combination sounds awesome with my Sennheiser HD-650, 800, AKG K550, K545, And JVC ESNSY headphones. Almost anything sounds good with my Koss PortaPros, so I usually forget to mention them. The one thing that I know the iDSD Micro can do that the MOJO can't is drive my JVC SZ-2000 headphones into TRUE "Beast Mode". Example courtesy of Hawaiibadboy if you get a chance to search him out, I think you'll be very impressed. If you're not a basshead at all, it may not be of real value to you, but it translates well into demonstrating how WELL the iDSD can drive the 600Ohm T1 with real "authority". Not just to make it louder, which isn't hard at all to be honest, but makes it possible for them to sing while almost feeling effortless. My Schiit Audio ASGARD 2 doesn't make them feel any fuller than the iDSD does. Yes, the HD-800 and to a much lesser extent, my HD650 improve slightly, but not nearly enough to notice unless I A/B the HD-650 back to back between the two. I can tell more easily with most quality tracks on the HD-800, but it isn't as big a difference as you would expect. Not even considering portable and non-Class-A amplified vs dedicated desktop/rack Class-A amplified. Which to me is a hugely impressive feat. Yes, I'm sure if I upgraded to a Cavalli, the difference would be much greater, but I could say the same between the ASGARD2 and a Cavalli as well. In short, I love it. It is the "Swiss army knife" of my audio collection. Only thing is it does EVERYTHING really well instead of just acceptably. It has a truly top-shelf DAC, great sounding amp, TONS of power, rugged/durable, "fairly" portable (It is on the large side, and not "pocketable" in less than a large jacket pocket or cargo pants as opposed to my FIIO e17 which easily fits in a pants pocket.), very durable, and has good battery life. (I've flown multiple times from NJ to California, and never ran out of power.)

Oh, I just saw that you asked someone else, so I connect my DX90 to my iDSD via coaxial. I had a custom cable made by Forza Audio Works. It works perfectly! The stock coaxial to 3.5" cable worked okay, but the plug sleeve started to soften and stretch, so the connection became a bit of hit or miss after a few weeks. The Forza has been rock-solid and shows no sign of wear at all almost a full year of travel later. Worth it in my book. And I have used the iDSD Micro with both my iPhone 4S and 5 as well as my iPad original and Air tablets. I have to use my old style and lightning camera connection kit (CCK) adapters, but it does work. Just for me, there isn't NEARLY enough storage to make it worthwhile. I know TIDAL works, but I really like listening to my own lossless files better, and having 128GB micro SD cards for each genre, and a couple for "travel music compilations" makes it easy. . Fair warning: I usually get the standard Apple "This device is not supported" when I use my lightning CCK, but it works anyway. With iPad on, I plug in the CCK, then plug the USB end into my iDSD, and then turn on my iDSD. (Which is why I probably get the error, but I don't like hot- plugging my audio devices if I can avoid it.). Then I start up the TIDAL app and listen.


----------



## howdy

knorris908 said:


> Hi Howdy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Thanks for the Big reply! 
I have talked to hawaiibadboy a few times on this and he seems to really like it still and has many other iFi products as well. I hope to have this tomorrow so I can finally have a listen. Its funny you mentioned Forza as I just had to cables made from him and just received them the other day, one for my Oppo PM3 and one for my Alclair RSM customs. He does great work. Well, I will have to give some impressions soon. Im really surprised that this thread does not get more attention. I will have to help spread the love.


----------



## knorris908

howdy said:


> knorris908 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Howdy!
> ...




It IS a great thread. I really like it here and learn a lot almost daily. Best of all, the members here don't make me feel like I'm "less worthy", because I'm a beginner and ask questions. Everyone had to start sometime, and the people here all seem to remember what that's like. 

Here is a photo I just took with the custom Forza. It's not only nice to look at, but über sturdy. This rig goes into my bag and through airport security on a regular basis. NO WEAR SHOWS.


----------



## knorris908

My typical travel load-out. 

VMODAs for airport (Easy/cheap to replace if lost/stolen)
AKG K545 for plane (ear cups folded flat and slid into a velour travel pouch inside my laptop bag)
(FIIO e17 just shown here for size comparison.)


----------



## howdy

knorris908 said:


> It IS a great thread. I really like it here and learn a lot almost daily. Best of all, the members here don't make me feel like I'm "less worthy", because I'm a beginner and ask questions. Everyone had to start sometime, and the people here all seem to remember what that's like.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a photo I just took with the custom Forza. It's not only nice to look at, but über sturdy. This rig goes into my bag and through airport security on a regular basis. NO WEAR SHOWS.



 

We were all beginners and I have questions I know a few good people here to ask. 

The setup looks great! I have the M100s as well, they are a fun headphone. If you don't mind me asking how much was the Forza IC?


----------



## knorris908

howdy said:


> knorris908 said:
> 
> 
> > It IS a great thread. I really like it here and learn a lot almost daily. Best of all, the members here don't make me feel like I'm "less worthy", because I'm a beginner and ask questions. Everyone had to start sometime, and the people here all seem to remember what that's like.
> ...




I don't mind at all! If I recall, they were about $60 USD and change. With shipping I think it came to just over $70. For the durability alone I consider the cable worth it. Not to mention it just looks really nice. . I chose the 0,5m length, and it is just right. Almost looks like the length was measured to juuuust reach between my DX90 & iDSD plug & port.


----------



## gr8soundz

knorris908 said:


> It IS a great thread. I really like it here and learn a lot almost daily. Best of all, the members here don't make me feel like I'm "less worthy", because I'm a beginner and ask questions. Everyone had to start sometime, and the people here all seem to remember what that's like.
> 
> Here is a photo I just took with the custom Forza. It's not only nice to look at, but über sturdy. This rig goes into my bag and through airport security on a regular basis. NO WEAR SHOWS.


 
  
 That is one hell of a stack!
  
 If you had to choose between the HD800 and the T1.2, which has better bass and soundstage with the Micro?


----------



## effsandoval

Hi, I just want to ask which will sound better on the idsd for portable purpose. I am currently using a smartphone connected via otg. I am planning to get a Sony NW-A25 just to slim down my stack. Would it sound the same, paired with a smartphone or will pairing it with a Sony A25 sound better? TIA 

Sent from my LG-H818 using Tapatalk


----------



## ColonelBucket8

I have A17 connected with WMC-NWH10 cable. I didn't notice difference between sound quality of A17 with my iphone 6 connected with CCK. But when you are using sony A10 series with this WMC-NWH10 cable to connect with ifi micro idsd or other external dac/amp, it will cut down your sony's battery life from 20 hours to 8 hours.


----------



## technobear

colonelbucket8 said:


> I have A17 connected with WMC-NWH10 cable. I didn't notice difference between sound quality of A17 with my iphone 6 connected with CCK. But when you are using sony A10 series with this WMC-NWH10 cable to connect with ifi micro idsd or other external dac/amp, it will cut down your sony's battery life from 20 hours to 8 hours.




Are you switching the micro iDSD on first before you connect the A17?


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Yes, I'm switching on idsd first. Even if I switch on after I plug in A17, idsd does not drain A17 battery.
  
 It is sony's flaws that when you connect to external dac/amp with WMC-NWH10 cable, it puts A10 series in "data transfer mode".
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/survey-digital-audio-players-part-1-sony-nwz-a17#1oFMyTRymvR2kikt.97


----------



## knorris908

gr8soundz said:


> That is one hell of a stack!
> 
> If you had to choose between the HD800 and the T1.2, which has better bass and soundstage with the Micro?




Hmm... I wouldn't call it a trick question, but it IS tricky.

First, the "for me" CLEAR win: T1 has tremendously sculptured and deep bass. They CAN actually rumble if the music is right, and you get those deep percussion sub bass rolls... The HD-800 is no slouch either, but truly analytical. If you want to know what's there, the HD-800 gives you a map. But if you want to feel and be enveloped in it, the T1 ver.2 is my preference.

Now soundstage... If you define better by "bigger", then HD-800 wins EVERY time. No contest.
If your soundstage criteria is "appropriateness", then I favor the T1 ver.2. Or even the ver.1.

To me: I hear a huge soundstage out of the HD-800. It's WILD, and amazing to hear. After the gee-whiz factor wore off, (a couple of weeks) I started to notice that for the likes of Wagner, Holst, and Beethoven, when the arrangements are large, and complex, I LOVE the HD-800! But for smaller, arrangements like quartets or piano/harpsichord, the huge soundstage felt "awkward". Not bad, but just not possessing the punch and impact the individual instruments should/could have. With the T1 (Either version) the instruments are clearly placed and play off of each other. (No pun intended). They simply blend when they should, and you can clearly tell when someone is taking lead, and when they "step back" to blend with the group. For those reasons, I prefer the T1s.

So, if I'm listening to huge choral or orchestral pieces, I'd reach for the HD-800. If I'm intending to listen to most anythIng else, I'd reach for the T1 ver.2.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Is it me only that i heard T1 with micro idsd is so piercing bright?


----------



## knorris908

colonelbucket8 said:


> Is it me only that i heard T1 with micro idsd is so piercing bright?



To me, the T1 ver.1 could get a little shrill a bit easier than I would like. The T1 ver.2 less so, bringing it in-line with the HD-800. If the track IS recorded that way, the T1 (either version) will reveal it, so let me just point that out. I'm NOT saying that it magically "fixes" what is there. But I do consider that while the level of detail is there, it is presented "better". Best analogy I can think of is a slightly jagged knife edge vs a sharpened, & finished knife edge. Both may cut cleanly, but there is less effort behind the latter, and if you REALLY look, you'll notice that the cut is smoother. That is the T1 ver.2 to me. The T1 ver.1 still sounds wonderful, and you have to pick the right music to have the differences really showcase themselves.

All that said, I'm a part-time basshead who loves his warm and lush HD-650s to this day, but right now I am listening to BBC National Orchestra of Wales. I am TRULY happy with the sound. Hi Res sound file, and there are flute and piccolo segments that I am enthralled by. Not too bright for my taste at all. Is my iCAN amp a little warmer? Yes. But it is not like this iDSD signature is any less enjoyable for me.


----------



## gr8soundz

knorris908 said:


> So, if I'm listening to huge choral or orchestral pieces, I'd reach for the HD-800. If I'm intending to listen to most anythIng else, I'd reach for the T1 ver.2.


 
  
 Thanks. Hope to own a TOTL headphone in the future and good to know what to look for. The T1.2 is a lot cheaper too. Gonna look at the new HD 800S too and see how it's improvements compare.


----------



## dharma

knorris908 said:


> To me, the T1 ver.1 could get a little shrill a bit easier than I would like. The T1 ver.2 less so, bringing it in-line with the HD-800. If the track IS recorded that way, the T1 (either version) will reveal it, so let me just point that out. I'm NOT saying that it magically "fixes" what is there. But I do consider that while the level of detail is there, it is presented "better". Best analogy I can think of is a slightly jagged knife edge vs a sharpened, & finished knife edge. Both may cut cleanly, but there is less effort behind the latter, and if you REALLY look, you'll notice that the cut is smoother. That is the T1 ver.2 to me. The T1 ver.1 still sounds wonderful, and you have to pick the right music to have the differences really showcase themselves.
> 
> All that said, I'm a part-time basshead who loves his warm and lush HD-650s to this day, but right now I am listening to BBC National Orchestra of Wales. I am TRULY happy with the sound. Hi Res sound file, and there are flute and piccolo segments that I am enthralled by. Not too bright for my taste at all. Is my iCAN amp a little warmer? Yes. But it is not like this iDSD signature is any less enjoyable for me.


 
  
 A far as I remember Beyer T1 (vers.1) has in top same 'problem' as HD800 but in higher (8kHz) area, so some hp users don't love/use T1 generation 1.


----------



## knorris908

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks. Hope to own a TOTL headphone in the future and good to know what to look for. The T1.2 is a lot cheaper too. Gonna look at the new HD 800S too and see how it's improvements compare.




Ha! Nice. I'm looking for a good, "reasonable" balanced amp. (BIG stretch for reasonable as I was trying to keep it under $2K, and it looks like the game changers begin around the $3K basement... I'll have to be VERY good for my birthday to justify buying myself anything like that when I could just put a down payment on a higher efficiency central air unit for a bit more.)


----------



## technobear

colonelbucket8 said:


> Is it me only that i heard T1 with micro idsd is so piercing bright?




Are you using the 'Bit-Perfect' filter?

Have you tried XBASS? Some tracks really benefit from this.


----------



## iFi audio

knorris908 said:


> Fair warning: I usually get the standard Apple "This device is not supported" when I use my lightning CCK, but it works anyway. With iPad on, I plug in the CCK, then plug the USB end into my iDSD, and then turn on my iDSD. (Which is why I probably get the error, but I don't like hot- plugging my audio devices if I can avoid it.). Then I start up the TIDAL app and listen.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Always turn on the iDSD to put it into battery mode before plugging it into the iPAD, then you will not get the standard warning as it is trying to draw from the phone or pad which Apple does not allow for.
  
 Androids are more tolerant but still do the same as it is better to run off battery in the micro DSD.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

technobear said:


> Are you using the 'Bit-Perfect' filter?
> 
> Have you tried XBASS? Some tracks really benefit from this.


 

 Yes, I use bit-perfect. I think T1 has more than adequate bass. Maybe my music mastering is bad. Or ifi micro idsd amp section is more to lean side. When I pair T1 with burson ha-160 as amp and idsd as dac, it is warmer than before. The treble of T1 is tamed but yet very detailed and musical.


----------



## howdy

Got the micro just waiting for it to charge up.


----------



## balcy24

I have had my iDSD micro for a few weeks now and absolutely love it. I bought it used but like new off here for 2/3 the price of a new unit. I have not received the iPhone connection error yet with my iPhone 6 Plus either.
  
 I did have a reduced volume issue last week. I was listening to something with the iPhone and my Beyer T1 v1 when the volume was suddenly way, way down to what the T1s have connected directly to the iPhone - not much. Changing the volume on the iPhone made no difference as I was using the CCK. Volume was up all the way on the iDSD too - uh oh. Somehow in handling the iDSD I had turned the IEMatch from "off" to "ultra sensitive." Well T1s are definitely NOT IEMs. Problem solved!!! I may have to put some tape over the slide switch if it happens again.
  
 Dave


----------



## ColonelBucket8

The IEMatch is very susceptible to slide. Need to be careful, otherwise it will blow your ears


----------



## gr8soundz

Make sure to put the rubber feet on bottom of the Micro too. I accidentally moved a switch or two as well before putting them on. If your used one didn't come with them (or if they're too big) any stick on feet will do. I used some small, shallow Fiio ones on mine.


----------



## howdy

So I listened to this finally and I have to say it is awesome I really love how each note is articulated, so crisp and clean. I was thinking of 3D printing something for the bottom and sides so that I don't accidentally move a switch. I will make it so that I still have access to the switches. I was thinking of getting HD600 for it. More to come soon.


----------



## knorris908

howdy said:


> So I listened to this finally and I have to say it is awesome I really love how each note is articulated, so crisp and clean. I was thinking of 3D printing something for the bottom and sides so that I don't accidentally move a switch. I will make it so that I still have access to the switches. I was thinking of getting HD600 for it. More to come soon.


 

 Glad you like it Howdy!
  
 I've had the HD-650 with it for over a year now and LOVE it.  The T1 Ver. 2 just takes it to "the next level".   know it's more than an HD-650 or 600, but "spend well - spend ONCE".  If had never heard a T1, or HD-800, I would have stayed QUITE content with my HD-650 on the iDSD Micro though...


----------



## howdy

I was loaned the Dharma so I'll try that tomorrow with it. I noticed with the dsd that I need to redo some of my music as some recordings sound good and some not so much.


----------



## gr8soundz

howdy said:


> I was loaned the Dharma so I'll try that tomorrow with it. I noticed with the dsd that I need to redo some of my music as some recordings sound good and some not so much.


 
  
 Would love to know how the Dharmas compare to your Oppo PM-3.


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> Make sure to put the rubber feet on bottom of the Micro too. I accidentally moved a switch or two as well before putting them on. If your used one didn't come with them (or if they're too big) any stick on feet will do. I used some small, shallow Fiio ones on mine.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes - we recommend using the silicone feet as this raises the chassis off the ground and prevents scratches. Also, one can 'piggy back' the phone to the micro without scratching either. Then use the 2 x bands to hold the two together. This is the only way to fly.


----------



## quodjo105

Any oppo pm-3 owners here? How does it sound with the idsd ?


----------



## rickyleelee

they demo with Audezes and Hifimans so those planars are better than the oppo especially the pm3. but try yourself and trust you ears. only get an idea from others here but the decision is only yours.


----------



## howdy

I have pm3 but I have not tried yet. I will try later today.


----------



## quodjo105

rickyleelee said:


> they demo with Audezes and Hifimans so those planars are better than the oppo especially the pm3. but try yourself and trust you ears. only get an idea from others here but the decision is only yours.


I don't have it yet but I'm planning to buy one soon. Please let me know how they sound .thanks


----------



## Koolpep

quodjo105 said:


> Any oppo pm-3 owners here? How does it sound with the idsd ?




The iDSD sounds glorious with my PM-2 and PM-3. Really drives them absolutely great. The lcd-2 and HE-560 are also driven very sweet. For the money you can't beat the versatility and sound quality of the iDSD micro. One of my best purchases ever.

Cheers,
K


----------



## andromeda1954

Does someone here have experience with the Ican micro SE  connected to the micro IDSD (used  as DAC) So yes, does it give improvement in sound. ?They told me that the Ican micro SE have  a better amp than the Micro IDSD .


----------



## gr8soundz

quodjo105 said:


> Any oppo pm-3 owners here? How does it sound with the idsd ?


 
  
 PM-3 sounds great with the Micro. Very full, detailed sound with great bass but somewhat neutral (accurate; not as fun) and the soundstage isn't as great compared to many open headphones.
  


andromeda1954 said:


> Does someone here have experience with the Ican micro SE  connected to the micro IDSD (used  as DAC) So yes, does it give improvement in sound. ?They told me that the Ican micro SE have  a better amp than the Micro IDSD .


 
  
 The Micro already has a pretty good amp section but I was wondering the same thing since the SE has the same power output. Won't know for sure until (if) I hear it but curious how much better full class A and tubestate will sound.


----------



## howdy

Ive only had this 2 days now and I can already tell that I like this more then the Mojo. I really like how natural and for the most part how neutral it is. I was listening to it with my Alclair CIEMs and I was completely lost in my music! The Mojo does sound great but the  Idsd Micro is more of what I look for as far as sound quality goes.
  
 Today I was also playing with this and the Dharma Headphones and what a great combo. One thing I noticed with the Dharmas is they sound better with very little amplification. I noticed when you turn it up they almost sound a bit distorted but under a normal listen volume which we all should be using, they are really full bodied and everything is crystal clear with the iDSD micro. Just so you know Im using the DX90 as my source via coax. With some more testing I think the Idsd Micro will be a Keeper!!!


----------



## balcy24

colonelbucket8 said:


> The IEMatch is very susceptible to slide. Need to be careful, otherwise it will blow your ears


 
 That isn't too much of a concern with the T1s until I get a decent pair of IEMs. I am glad the power mode switch is on the side and harder to move though! I am running the iDSD at normal and not turbo. 
  
 As for the little rubber feet, they are in place. I must have been holding the iPhone/iDSD stack when the switch was accidentally moved. 
  
  
 Dave


----------



## rickyleelee

what settings do you use for the Oppo? the settings always trip up my friends as go for turbo!


----------



## howdy

rickyleelee said:


> what settings do you use for the Oppo? the settings always trip up my friends as go for turbo!


 
 I used the standard today for my Oppo PM3.


----------



## Haris Javed

Honestly I don't know what it is, but the IFI micro IDSD sounds good with everything. I mean Everything! - its Magical with HE-560, HD 650, Philips X2, so I dunno. However I don't think it is a neutral dac/amp - as to me it seems that it has a lot more punch, edginess to it compared to my other amp / dacs with much higher power (high current) - oppo HA-1 / Audio gd NFB 1 Amp.


----------



## andromeda1954

I use my IDSD I turbo mode to drive my Sennheisers HD 800S .The IDSD is getting very hot .Is this normal? The sound is wonderful


----------



## Haris Javed

andromeda1954 said:


> I use my IDSD I turbo mode to drive my Sennheisers HD 800S .The IDSD is getting very hot .Is this normal? The sound is wonderful


 

 yes that's normal. usually high impedance causes lower temperatures, but maybe it is just the battery heating up. high impedance usually means less power delivered.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

andromeda1954 said:


> I use my IDSD I turbo mode to drive my Sennheisers HD 800S .The IDSD is getting very hot .Is this normal? The sound is wonderful


 

 Turbo mode for HD 800S? Wow isn't that pretty loud or do you use IEMatch enabled? I use Normal mode and even with very quiet classical recordings I never need to go over 1 p.m. with volume poti.


----------



## andromeda1954

h1f1add1cted said:


> Turbo mode for HD 800S? Wow isn't that pretty loud or do you use IEMatch enabled? I use Normal mode and even with very quiet classical recordings I never need to go over 1 p.m. with volume poti.


 
 The Sennheisers HD 800S need a lot of power will they come to there  full potential in turbo mode the sound is more dynamic and full. `i have IEmatch not enabled . the volume pot never needs to go over 10 o clock


----------



## ColonelBucket8

I thought that hd800 need amp synergy rather than pure amp power


----------



## coastal1

andromeda1954 said:


> The Sennheisers HD 800S need a lot of power will they come to there  full potential in turbo mode the sound is more dynamic and full. `i have IEmatch not enabled . the volume pot never needs to go over 10 o clock


 




ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The HD650 is a very easy to drive headphone. Hence, we recommend Eco or Normal power mode.
> 
> ...


 

  
 Curious why it's recommended to not drive headphones with ample power to spare provided you keep the volume low.  I wouldn't use a Ferrari to tow anything, but given the choice, I'd tow a trailer with a 400HP V8 truck rather than a 200HP V4 crossover, even if the 200HP V4 was strong enough to adequately power and control the trailer.


----------



## lvince95

Quote: 





coastal1 said:


> Curious why it's recommended to not drive headphones with ample power to spare provided you keep the volume low.  I wouldn't use a Ferrari to tow anything, but given the choice, I'd tow a trailer with a 400HP V8 truck rather than a 200HP V4 crossover, even if the 200HP V4 was strong enough to adequately power and control the trailer.


 

 Power is not everything


----------



## andromeda1954

colonelbucket8 said:


> I thought that hd800 need amp synergy rather than pure amp power


 
 The  Idsd matches well with the Sennheisers HD 800S But  i think there are amps out there doing a better job .


----------



## dharma

coastal1 said:


> Curious why it's recommended to not drive headphones with ample power to spare provided you keep the volume low.
> [...]


 
  
 This subject was discussed already earlier in this thread. iFi Audio suggested to set system so, that amplification volume-pot is set to somewhere between 12 and 3 'a clock'.


----------



## iFi audio

dharma said:


> This subject was discussed already earlier in this thread. iFi Audio suggested to set system so, that amplification volume-pot is set to somewhere between 12 and 3 'a clock'.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct - because the micro has an analogue volume control, so best to 'open it up.'
  
 Cheers.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

andromeda1954 said:


> The Sennheisers HD 800S need a lot of power will they come to there  full potential in turbo mode the sound is more dynamic and full. `i have IEmatch not enabled . the volume pot never needs to go over 10 o clock


 
  
 Sorry but it seems we both have different hearing. In Normal mode the HD800 S is quite easy very loud on Turbo mode it kill my hearing because it's too loud with the same volume level setting.

 More "dynamic" for human hearing are = louder listening levels, which feels = "better" but it's not better, it only "feels" more dynamic, but it isn't. It's only louder.


----------



## iFi audio

coastal1 said:


> Curious why it's recommended to not drive headphones with ample power to spare provided you keep the volume low.  I wouldn't use a Ferrari to tow anything, but given the choice, I'd tow a trailer with a 400HP V8 truck rather than a 200HP V4 crossover, even if the 200HP V4 was strong enough to adequately power and control the trailer.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The "Ferrari towing a Trailer" analogy was meant to illustrate that in this case you may have huge horsepower, but you cannot open up the throttle and let rip, as the trailer will simply go off the rails.
  
 Same with a high sensitivity headphone and Turbo. Sure you have tons of power but nothing you can do with it as it is not an ideal pairing.
  
 So replace the Ferrari with a 200HP V4 Truck (Normal mode or even Eco) and then turn up the Volume more for more Torque and more actual useable power on the point where the rubber meets the road, despite the Ferrari having ever so much more BHP under the bonnet.
  
  
 Incidentally, HD-650 is not that easy to drive. 104dB/1V, so we like to get at least 3-4V - which puts it firmly at 'Normal' not Eco.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## roamling

Today I just got a pair of Sennheiser IE80 in ear headphones. I took the micro iDSD out of its rack switched to eco mode and ultra low sensitivity and bang, loads of movement on the volume dial from 10-1 o clock. I love the sound. I will write some more impressions soon.


----------



## coastal1

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The HD650 is a very easy to drive headphone. Hence, we recommend Eco or Normal power mode.
> 
> ...


 
  


> Originally Posted by *iFi audio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now I'm confused.  One iFi post says the "HD650 is a very easy to drive headphone. Hence, we recommend Eco or Normal power mode."  A later iFi post says "HD-650 is not that easy to drive... which puts it firmly at 'Normal' not Eco."  I do agree that the HD650 "is not that easy to drive" (though that's somewhat relative), but am confused by the contradictory statements.


----------



## lvince95

coastal1 said:


> Now I'm confused.  One iFi post says the "HD650 is a very easy to drive headphone. Hence, we recommend Eco or Normal power mode."  A later iFi post says "HD-650 is not that easy to drive... which puts it firmly at 'Normal' not Eco."  I do agree that the HD650 "is not that easy to drive" (though that's somewhat relative), but am confused by the contradictory statements.




Just use normal and then eco and see what you like best lol


----------



## iFi audio

lvince95 said:


> Just use normal and then eco and see what you like best lol


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As above, try both but we recommend Normal. Absolutely fine to use Eco if you like it. These are just a recommendation.
  
 Heck, we cant agree in the marketing office between the girls and the boys - as we all have our own preferences - so try for yourself.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## WriterHead

quodjo105 said:


> Any oppo pm-3 owners here? How does it sound with the idsd ?


 
  
 Perfectly fine. As good as connected to the iBasso Dzero mk2. Easy to drive headphone.


----------



## knorris908

Guys:

I've NEVER considered my iFi iDSD Micro (DAC or as DAC/AMP) to be "too bright" or "too harsh". I had that complaint with GRADOs I had for a while about a year ago, but I felt that way about them no matter what they were plugged up to... Anyway, I just tried the iTube with my iDSD through the Sennheisers and the Beyerdynamics. REALLY nice! Not a big difference in sound quality - like harsh v.s. soft, but like the same detail and emphasis, but "polished smooth". Taking longer than I would like to A/B because I have to completely remove the iTube from the audio chain to hear the difference, as opposed to just "turning it off", (I still hear a difference as long as it's (the iTube) connected, even if I unplug it!) but I at least wanted to share my initial thoughts. I also need to let it burn in before I do any critical listening, but just plugging it in to get it started burning has made a very positive impression on me. I'm really looking forward to hearing it with all my amps now!

Ken N.


----------



## howdy

knorris908 said:


> Guys:
> 
> I've NEVER considered my iFi iDSD Micro (DAC or as DAC/AMP) to be "too bright" or "too harsh". I had that complaint with GRADOs I had for a while about a year ago, but I felt that way about them no matter what they were plugged up to... Anyway, I just tried the iTube with my iDSD through the Sennheisers and the Beyerdynamics. REALLY nice! Not a big difference in sound quality - like harsh v.s. soft, but like the same detail and emphasis, but "polished smooth". Taking longer than I would like to A/B because I have to completely remove the iTube from the audio chain to hear the difference, as opposed to just "turning it off", (I still hear a difference as long as it's (the iTube) connected, even if I unplug it!) but I at least wanted to share my initial thoughts. I also need to let it burn in before I do any critical listening, but just plugging it in to get it started burning has made a very positive impression on me. I'm really looking forward to hearing it with all my amps now!
> 
> Ken N.


 
 I agree, I dont think this is a bright DAC/AMP at all. It may seem that way with certain headphones that are considered bright. I will be buying some HD600 soon and can not wait to see the synergy between these, although the Dharmas that were borrowed to me have been sounding outstanding with this. I really am not wanting to spend that kind of money on headphones though. The Dharmas to me are not that comfortable either, I wish they were self adjusting so that I could put them where I want them.


----------



## TAREKFOUAD1

Hi 
 Any one try this amp with 1964 U8 or U6 IEM? and also HE-500 cause im planning to buy this amp soon.
  
 Thx


----------



## LoryWiv

howdy said:


> I agree, I dont think this is a bright DAC/AMP at all. It may seem that way with certain headphones that are considered bright. I will be buying some HD600 soon and can not wait to see the synergy between these, although the Dharmas that were borrowed to me have been sounding outstanding with this. I really am not wanting to spend that kind of money on headphones though. The Dharmas to me are not that comfortable either, I wish they were self adjusting so that I could put them where I want them.


 
 iDSD Micro and 64 Audio A6 is a detail monster, great clarity and separation. I also enjoy my HD600 with the Micro quire a bit.


----------



## gbx2006

andromeda1954 said:


> Does someone here have experience with the Ican micro SE  connected to the micro IDSD (used  as DAC) So yes, does it give improvement in sound. ?They told me that the Ican micro SE have  a better amp than the Micro IDSD .


 
  
 I purchased an iCAN Micro SE about a week ago to go with my iDSD Micro and yes, the sound quality improvement is quite obvious. Fuller, smoother and more realistic compared to the amp section of the iDSD.   Also the bass boost and 3D settings on the iCAN SE is different/better then the iDSD's settings. Instead of just an on/off switch, you get a choice of 2 bass boost and 2 3D settings. Bass boost setting 1 is about the same as the bass boost of the iDSD. Bass boost setting 2 gives you even more bass, maybe double of the iDSD. The 3D is also handled differently then the iDSD 3D. Setting 1 kinda puts all the music in front of you as if you were listening to speakers sort of. Setting 2 kinda puts you in the music, with sound coming from all around you. It also seems to separate the instruments better as well.


----------



## spdtdl

andromeda1954 said:


> Does someone here have experience with the Ican micro SE  connected to the micro IDSD (used  as DAC) So yes, does it give improvement in sound. ?They told me that the Ican micro SE have  a better amp than the Micro IDSD .


 
 The difference is night & day.


----------



## iancraig10

Do you get any hiss with low impedance headphones? I have a Nano, and that gives out a little. It doesn't change with high or low output. Always there.


----------



## WriterHead

iancraig10 said:


> Do you get any hiss with low impedance headphones? I have a Nano, and that gives out a little. It doesn't change with high or low output. Always there.


 

 No hiss with Audiofly AF180 or Stagediver 2.


----------



## howdy

This thing is getting better and better everyday, I love the clarity!!!  Cant wait to buy the HD600, likely this week or next.


----------



## dharma

earlier someone asked about 'balanced' PRO series
on Sound & Vision, Bristol show 2016 - iFi PRO series iCAN amp


----------



## coastal1

At the risk of opening a can of worms, any recommendations on short (1 foot or less ) RCA interconnects or any brands to avoid?  Currently using Blue Jeans RCA cables that I like but are a little too long and stiff/heavy for use with the light Liquid Carbon amp and ifi Micro as DAC.  Looks like plenty of options on Amazon under $40 so that's one possible price point, but open to being convinced to with the stock RCAs included with the Micro, a cheap Monoprice, or something more expensive as I've never tried to see if I can hear the difference in RCAs.


----------



## technobear

coastal1 said:


> At the risk of opening a can of worms, any recommendations on short (1 foot or less ) RCA interconnects or any brands to avoid?  Currently using Blue Jeans RCA cables that I like but are a little too long and stiff/heavy for use with the light Liquid Carbon amp and ifi Micro as DAC.  Looks like plenty of options on Amazon under $40 so that's one possible price point, but open to being convinced to with the stock RCAs included with the Micro, a cheap Monoprice, or something more expensive as I've never tried to see if I can hear the difference in RCAs.




http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum


----------



## coastal1

technobear said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum




Aware of that, but there's more traffic over here and it's specific to the size of the relatively small size of the Micro (and LC). Great RCAs for bulkier components won't necessarily work this combo.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

ifi audio said:


>


 
  

  

  

  
  
 ifi fan here
  
Please please make a small unit in the nano chassis or a new one with a power output similar to the Mojo which is about 650mW  into 16ohm.
  
 There are so many power users in my arena who love the gear but would like something truly brutish in a smaller footprint to go with droid or iphone. Mojo did it. If you offered a power output on line with mojo in the nano chassis I would be all over it and i know many others who would too.
  
 The portable market is huge. Get some more of that cake!!


----------



## Dadracer

gbx2006 said:


> andromeda1954 said:
> 
> 
> > Does someone here have experience with the Ican micro SE  connected to the micro IDSD (used  as DAC) So yes, does it give improvement in sound. ?They told me that the Ican micro SE have  a better amp than the Micro IDSD .
> ...


 
 You have taken the words right out of my mouth...........


----------



## Koolpep

dadracer said:


> You have taken the words right out of my mouth...........


 

 This is getting more and more interesting, I had a iCan SE in my house yesterday for an hour, but didn't manage to listen to it, will get one to try in two weeks - long, hard waiting ahead. 
  
 Can't wait to pitch the iCAN SE against the Liquid Carbon....


----------



## Dadracer

koolpep said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > You have taken the words right out of my mouth...........
> ...


 
 I had a loan iCAN SE from ifi Audio and liked it more than I expected when compared to the amp section in my micro iDSD. It isn't a massive difference but it must be significant as my system felt kind of thin after I sent back the loaner. So now I bought my own and my system is back and much happier!!! I also tried the iCAN SE in my main system against the Auralic Taurus mk2 headphone amp and it got surprisingly close despite the wide price difference.


----------



## Koolpep

dadracer said:


> I had a loan iCAN SE from ifi Audio and liked it more than I expected when compared to the amp section in my micro iDSD. It isn't a massive difference but it must be significant as my system felt kind of thin after I sent back the loaner. So now I bought my own and my system is back and much happier!!! I also tried the iCAN SE in my main system against the Auralic Taurus mk2 headphone amp and it got surprisingly close despite the wide price difference.


 

 Wow, I really liked the Auralic Taurs Mk2 when I heard it a long time ago. A mighty amp. That's more than good news. Can't wait to try the iCAN SE....
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Can this ican se drive he6? I'm planning to get he6 and I have no space for big beefy amp


----------



## Dadracer

I believe it can according to some of the posts on the iCAN SE thread.


----------



## canali

quick question to owners of the micro dsd.
  
 but i'm also considering another offer of adding another combo of
*the iusb 2.0 conditioner with **a gemini and mercury cable.*..
  
 I will be using any sort of a set up from my laptop to drive cans/iems
  
 ...do those other components (2.0 and cables from Ifi) make a real diff in your op, to those familiar?


----------



## Dadracer

Yes they do help and do make a difference, but make sure to add in an iPurifier2 to ensure it all works at its best.


----------



## technobear

canali said:


> quick question to owners of the micro dsd.
> 
> but i'm also considering another offer of adding another combo of
> *the iusb 2.0 conditioner with **a gemini and mercury cable.*..
> ...




It partly depends on what headphones you are using. There is no point in releasing an extra level of detail that your headphones cannot reproduce.

All of those extras help, most especially the iPurifier 2, but I would be wanting top drawer headphones first and then to be driving those headphones with a micro iCAN before considering the other bits.


----------



## canali

technobear said:


> It partly depends on what headphones you are using. There is no point in releasing an extra level of detail that your headphones cannot reproduce.
> 
> All of those extras help, most especially the iPurifier 2, but I would be wanting top drawer headphones first and then to be driving those headphones with a micro iCAN before considering the other bits.


 
 many thanks


----------



## rickyleelee

have to agree. micro is exceptional and full of potential. that is why it kicks dirt in the face of other more expensive dac amps. it is really good and if you have average headphones, the headphones reach their limit quickly. I had the Sen momentums and found they quickly hit the max headroom. so know I have better headphones and the micro dsd just gets better and better. The T1 is a $1200 headphone on $500 dac amp. so expect the micro to punch big.


----------



## canali

rickyleelee said:


> have to agree. micro is exceptional and full of potential. that is why it kicks dirt in the face of other more expensive dac amps. it is really good and if you have average headphones, the headphones reach their limit quickly. I had the Sen momentums and found they quickly hit the max headroom. so know I have better headphones and the micro dsd just gets better and better. The T1 is a $1200 headphone on $500 dac amp. so expect the micro to punch big.


 
  
 thanks it would be for sony 7520 cans, senn hd650 cans and for my sony 7550 and sony xb90ex iems
 so nothing too demanding (aside from the more power hungry senn 650s i understand)
  
 still looking at the mojo too...heck maybe get both.
  
 it will be most interesting to see how iFi tops this with their imminent 'pro' line.


----------



## howdy

canali said:


> thanks it would be for sony 7520 cans, senn hd650 cans and for my sony 7550 and sony xb90ex iems
> so nothing too demanding (aside from the more power hungry senn 650s i understand)
> 
> still looking at the mojo too...heck maybe get both.
> ...


 
 I had the Mojo tour unit and I prefer this over the Mojo. The mojo sounds great but I prefer this much more.


----------



## canali

howdy said:


> I had the Mojo tour unit and I prefer this over the Mojo. The mojo sounds great but I prefer this much more.


 
 thanks...can you kindly offer some specifics?
 i know the iFi micro has more options (x bass, 3d)
 and a more powerful amp  (I think)....is their sound sig
 that different?  
  
 i love the mojo's versatility: smartphone, dap, as a dac from laptop,
 can be used with an ipod touch even...or tablet, smartphone or even a tablet.
  
 does the Ifi offer the same versatility to other devices?


----------



## ColonelBucket8

From what I heard, ifi micro sounds more toward analytical while mojo is more musical. Ifi is really versatile. It can be played with apple devices, windows, mac, androids, literally anything.


----------



## canali

colonelbucket8 said:


> From what I heard, ifi micro sounds more toward analytical while mojo is more musical. Ifi is really versatile. It can be played with apple devices, windows, mac, androids, literally anything.


 
 great...even to an ipod touch ?
  
 (thinking of the 'lowly' ipod touch to be my 'dap' for now .
 love the wifi and UI and small lightweight footprint of the ipod touch....
 only wished the similarly looking ak jr or sony a26 would have had wifi for streaming, given streaming's growth
 ...just makes things more flexible for music choices
 is all)


----------



## howdy

canali said:


> thanks...can you kindly offer some specifics?
> i know the iFi micro has more options (x bass, 3d)
> and a more powerful amp  (I think)....is their sound sig
> that different?
> ...


 
 Pretty much what the colonel said. either one can be used with a CCK or third party MFI cable. I think the Mojo was awesome with my CIEMs but it was so close to my AK jr that it was not worth it. This iFi is by far more powerful then the MoJo. I like the more analytical sound sig of this, the first time I istened to the Micro with my CIEMs and my PM3s i knew this is what i wanted. There is a few people here who have both and prefer the sound of the micro but like the portability of the Mojo.


----------



## canali

howdy said:


> Pretty much what the colonel said. either one can be used with a CCK or third party MFI cable. I think the Mojo was awesome with my CIEMs but it was so close to my AK jr that it was not worth it. This iFi is by far more powerful then the MoJo. I like the more analytical sound sig of this, the first time I istened to the Micro with my CIEMs and my PM3s i knew this is what i wanted. There is a few people here who have both and prefer the sound of the micro but like the portability of the Mojo.


 
  
 great thanks for that...we're in a renaissance of portable audio, i think.
 am sure even more exciting things are to come.
  
 good short article on this from chord's facebook page:
 http://www.techradar.com/news/audio/portable-audio/are-headphones-the-gateway-drug-for-high-end-audio--1314435


----------



## howdy

canali said:


> great thanks for that...we're in a renaissance of portable audio, i think.
> am sure more fab things to come.
> 
> good article on this:
> ...


 
 Yep, that is one of the reasons I like Tidal Hifi so much, 40 million songs of FLAC at my call. I will be interested to see what you decide on.


----------



## Dadracer

Yeah, likewise the whole reason I got into the ifi products in the first place was entirely to stream Tidal Hi Fi from my laptop, iPhone and iPad although mostly it is laptop based to be honest. The battery on the iDSD is charged and ready to go once I am travelling though!!!


----------



## dharma

Interview with iFi - history, background, future plans....


----------



## howdy

Trying to hook iPhone via CCK to micro and it says to much power.


----------



## jhwalker

Be sure the Micro is turned on before you attach your iPhone.


----------



## canali

no one want to sell a micro idsd?


----------



## ebe2000

canali said:


> no one want to sell a micro idsd?


Ifi has lots of them for sale


----------



## canali

ebe2000 said:


> Ifi has lots of them for sale


 
  
 thanks...prob is they're full pop ...and our cdn dollero sucks right now
 ...a yr or so ago it was par with the US greenback...now it's 35-40% less 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...so used is the route, i'm afraid


----------



## ebe2000

canali said:


> thanks...prob is they're full pop ...and our cdn dollero sucks right now
> ...a yr or so ago it was par with the US greenback...now it's 35-40% less :eek: ...so used is the route, i'm afraid


They seem to sell quick second hand. No wonder, they are really good.


----------



## canali

ebe2000 said:


> They seem to sell quick second hand. No wonder, they are really good.


 
 just went on there...didnt' see any used sales i'm afraid...only dealers.
  
 wonder how any 'pro' version will beat this (which i'm sure it will).


----------



## canali

dharma said:


> Interview with iFi - history, background, future plans....


 
  
 thanks Dharma...cool! always fun to think of new toys we can buy.
  
 also and i know this isn't related (_so don't flame me please)_ but *Audioquest*
 also coming out with 3 new dacs in early 2nd quarter:
  
 blue tooth dac (beetle)
 and *2 new dragonflys* (a black and a more robust red 'turbo model)
 all will have firmware upgradeable software, too, which is a first for this series.
 just more portable and lightweight than alot of dacs out there: would be ideal for a smartphone etc
  
 different dac chips and amps for each.
  
 first link (vimeo) is insightful: by the always interesting John Darko at the official release at CES 2016
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/ces-2016-audioquest-mobilise-dragonfly-black-red/#comment-130562
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUj4SAhm6RY
 (interesting interview with the president on more specific diffs between the products and aims)
  
 interviews also talk of their future plans e.g., on how the jitterbug's popularity has opened them up to possibly developing more products
 related to line conditioning and signal integrity, etc.
  
 my point is: more fun stuff in the works for us in portable audio to support those companies we trust and like.
 Ifi, Chord, Audioquest: all on my radar (have the 1.2 dragonfly currently)


----------



## howdy

jhwalker said:


> Be sure the Micro is turned on before you attach your iPhone.


 
 no matter how I hook this up it always says "Attached accessory uses to much power" even if its plugged into the iPhone only. Any help would be great.


----------



## Dixter

charge the iphone first and see what happens...


----------



## howdy

dixter said:


> charge the iphone first and see what happens...


 
 Its at 83%.


----------



## Dixter

well your in trouble shoot mode... charge it to 100%....  if it still fails it could be the cable connections....  have you tested the CCK to make sure it works?


----------



## howdy

I just bought it today, could be faulty though.


----------



## Haris Javed

howdy said:


> no matter how I hook this up it always says "Attached accessory uses to much power" even if its plugged into the iPhone only. Any help would be great.


 

  I see that as well sometimes. Make sure you charge the unit to 100% - turn the unit on before connecting the iphone. It should work.


----------



## howdy

haris javed said:


> I see that as well sometimes. Make sure you charge the unit to 100% - turn the unit on before connecting the iphone. It should work.


 
 so when its charged to a 100% i can unplug it hook it up and it will stay working as long as it hooked up?


----------



## dharma

canali said:


> thanks Dharma...cool! always fun to think of new toys we can buy.
> 
> also and i know this isn't related (_so don't flame me please)_ but *Audioquest*
> also coming out with 3 new [...]


 
  
 That's the way, it doesn't stop here...waiting for reviews and tests... as it is said '*measure nine times, cut once*'


----------



## Dixter

howdy said:


> so when its charged to a 100% i can unplug it hook it up and it will stay working as long as it hooked up?


 
 thats the way it should work....  you have two units with batteries...   I'd charge both to 100% and then go from there... sometimes mine does the same as yours...  sometimes it works by just taking the cable off of the iphone and plugging it in again...


----------



## Brooko

@howdy
  
 Which CCK do you have?  I'm using the latest one plus iFi micro iDSD.  Turn iDSD on first. Plug lightning cable to iPhone 5S.  Plug USB port to rear port on iDSD.  Press play.  Plug in earphones. Music plays.
  
 You need to have the iDSD turned on befor you plug it into the iDevice though.


----------



## howdy

brooko said:


> @howdy
> 
> Which CCK do you have?  I'm using the latest one plus iFi micro iDSD.  Turn iDSD on first. Plug lightning cable to iPhone 5S.  Plug USB port to rear port on iDSD.  Press play.  Plug in earphones. Music plays.
> 
> You need to have the iDSD turned on befor you plug it into the iDevice though.


 
 Not sure how new it is I bought I bought it on Amazon. Just tried tried the aforementioned and still nothing.


----------



## Dixter

you might need to get an official Apple one from apple...    they changed the cable selection after one of the latest iOS upgrades and now the iphone supports a different kind of camera connection cable....   I think they moved the original cck cable over to the ipad area ...  are you sure you have the correct cable...  they kinda look the same these days...


----------



## howdy

well its definitely an Apple CCK but how do you tell if its the newest? Mine says Model A1440


----------



## Dixter

that is the correct version....


----------



## coastal1

My iPhone>CCK>Micro has always worked great without any troubleshooting, which is rare for me. I even put the CCK through the washer and dryer and still worked great


----------



## Haris Javed

howdy said:


> so when its charged to a 100% i can unplug it hook it up and it will stay working as long as it hooked up?


 
 yes that is correct  - However I have three pc's and it works with only two - no matter what I do. I think it has to do something with my usb ports on the x99 motherboard.


----------



## Brooko

Also check the code on the box - mine is MD821AM/A


----------



## canali

guys...has anyone compared the new ican micro se vs the micro idsd
 i did try a search but found nothing.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

canali said:


> guys...has anyone compared the new ican micro se vs the micro idsd
> i did try a search but found nothing.


 

 Here
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-ican-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14809


----------



## canali

many thanks ColonelBucket8
  
 i swear man, our avatars, pics and names are just the frickin' zaniest on this forum, lmao
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


colonelbucket8 said:


> Here
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-ican-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14809


----------



## ColonelBucket8

canali said:


>


 

 You are welcome. I'm sorry that my avatar disrupts your eyes. This is a tribute to Colonel Sanders for making the greatest fried chicken ever.


----------



## canali

no don't misunderstand me...i was laughing at it...found it humourous, that is all...i don't know why people choose their avatars
 ...but know i know yours....mine is a dead giveaway for my love of Rush.
  
 as per colonel sanders let me share something:
 when i was much younger (early 20s) and into long distance running i'd often, on a wkend night before a long distance run the next morning, grab this  to wolf down (and we're talking at 10-11pm):
 2 very large slices of my fav pizza, a kfc dinner (extra chicken gravy w the extra fries please!!)
 and then wash it all down with 2-3 nut brown ales.
*the dinner of champions!*
  
 the next morning i was out running my mates as if on high octane....don't know if my body was just primed with all that sodium, fat and carbs...or was trying to purge it from my body...but i was kicking butt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


colonelbucket8 said:


> You are welcome. I'm sorry that my avatar disrupts your eyes. This is a tribute to Colonel Sanders for making the greatest fried chicken ever.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

canali said:


>


 
 What a story you got there. Maybe I will try that before I'm running 10 km (if I ever do it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I like Rush but didn't really digging into their new stuff. Moving Pictures is the one of their greatest album.
  
 Actually my avatar is more towards this freaking weird guy (Buckethead). He can finger that guitar like no body else. Girls will awe with his fingering skill.


----------



## dharma

colonelbucket8 said:


> What a story you got there. Maybe I will try that before I'm running 10 km (if I ever do it).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Rush started to remaster their 'badly compressed' recordings, they admit to have made those popular 'overcompression mistakes' before...
 good for all


----------



## technobear

canali said:


> guys...has anyone compared the new ican micro se vs the micro idsd
> i did try a search but found nothing.




Here's what I had to say at 400 hours...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/654405/ican-amp-review-a-new-amp-that-gives-you-more-more-bass-more-soundstage-and-more-detail/480#post_12317897

More complimentary than what I had to say at 200 hours and 300 hours.

The iCAN SE now has 550 hours on the clock and I will be having another comparison session later on.


----------



## howdy

Well I charged my iPhone 5s to 100% tried every possible combination and still says power is to much. It has to be something with the phone, as I just plug it in and it says that. I did try something else where i plugged the Apple MFI into a Zeskit usb to fire and then into the phone and the phone was fine with that. Ive read online that some had to buy a USB hub for it to work so there has to be some alternatives.


----------



## jgpk

Hello, first time poster, not an audiophile, been lurking this forum for a few years. Finally decided to make a user here because I can't decide for myself and I'm looking for recommendations.
  
 I'm looking for an amp and a dac. I live in Sweden and the audio market feels abit... Small. But my local stores atleast got iFi, and iFi caught my interest becasue muh bass boost. I'm the worst EQer in the world and I can't for my life make things sound better with it, but I have used the fiio e12 and I enjoyed the bass boost on there so, well thats all there is to say about that.
  
 Desktop use, portabillity is NOT important.
 Source: PC, Spotify premium and FLAC as of this moment.
 Main Genres: Metalcore and underground hip hop majority of times, but also classical and orchestral music from time to time.
 Headphones: x2, M-100, HD-650, z7, TH-X00.
  
 I guess I like bass alot when it comes to my main genres. Not sure if I qualify as a bass head but, yeah.
  
 So, for my question:
  
 Would iFi micro iCAN SE + iDAC2 be a better option (both for my NEEDS and for SQ) than the micro iDSD only? money no object, portabillity no object? Or would you guys steer me in another direction?
  
 If I missed something, please let me know.
 If this sort of "spoonfeed me pls" is unethical, please let me know.


----------



## ClieOS

jgpk said:


> ... Would iFi micro iCAN SE + iDAC2 be a better option (both for my NEEDS and for SQ) than the micro iDSD only? money no object, portabillity no object? Or would you guys steer me in another direction?
> ...


 
  
 Micro iCAN SE + iDAC2 would be my choice if I am in your shoe. The major factor for me is that, while micro iDSD is no sloth on its headphone-out, it can't beat the micro iCAN SE.


----------



## Dadracer

Yes I think that's a fair assessment of their merits


----------



## gbx2006

jgpk said:


> Hello, first time poster, not an audiophile, been lurking this forum for a few years. Finally decided to make a user here because I can't decide for myself and I'm looking for recommendations.
> 
> I'm looking for an amp and a dac. I live in Sweden and the audio market feels abit... Small. But my local stores atleast got iFi, and iFi caught my interest becasue muh bass boost. I'm the worst EQer in the world and I can't for my life make things sound better with it, but I have used the fiio e12 and I enjoyed the bass boost on there so, well thats all there is to say about that.
> 
> ...


 
 I personally went with the iDSD with iCAN SE over the iDAC or IDAC2 with iCAN SE. I did this because the iDSD (At least on paper) should beat the iDAC and iDAC2 in terms of SQ when using any of these units as just a DAC. The iDSD comes with 2 burr brown chips while the iDAC and iDAC2 only comes with one.


----------



## dharma

jgpk said:


> Hello, first time poster, not an audiophile, been lurking this forum for a few years. Finally decided to make a user here because I can't decide for myself and I'm looking for recommendations.
> 
> I'm looking for an amp and a dac. I live in Sweden and the audio market feels abit... Small. But my local stores atleast got iFi, and iFi caught my interest becasue muh bass boost. I'm the worst EQer in the world and I can't for my life make things sound better with it, but I have used the fiio e12 and I enjoyed the bass boost on there so, well thats all there is to say about that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If money is not so important (and portability too), then no question, from iFi: iCAN Pro (coming just now!) and iDAC Pro (in june-july)!


----------



## balcy24

Which version of iOS are you using? I don't remember when it changed but for a few versions it didn't work very well with that error popping up. I use my iDSD Micro with an Apple 6 Plus with the latest iOS 9.2.1 and it works great. Doesn't matter what is plugged in or turned on first.


----------



## DougD

colonelbucket8 said:


> You are welcome. I'm sorry that my avatar disrupts your eyes. This is a tribute to Colonel Sanders for making the greatest fried chicken ever.


 
  
 I thought it might be an oblique clue that you were a big fan of the band Southern Culture on the Skids. Whose portfolio includes several odes to fried chicken. Fried chicken also used to be a prominent part of their road show, and possibly still is. (For those seeking an intro, their best album is "Dirt Track Date.")


----------



## jgpk

Thank you all so much for the support guys!
  



clieos said:


> Micro iCAN SE + iDAC2 would be my choice if I am in your shoe. The major factor for me is that, while micro iDSD is no sloth on its headphone-out, it can't beat the micro iCAN SE.


 
  
 Yeah that's what I thought aswell from reading through this and other threads on the matter, I even think iFi themselves implied that aswell somewhere here.
  


gbx2006 said:


> I personally went with the iDSD with iCAN SE over the iDAC or IDAC2 with iCAN SE. I did this because the iDSD (At least on paper) should beat the iDAC and iDAC2 in terms of SQ when using any of these units as just a DAC. The iDSD comes with 2 burr brown chips while the iDAC and iDAC2 only comes with one.


 
  
 Overkill! But yeah I see your though process and that's exactly the reason I wanted your guys input on it. How do you like that setup anyway? 
  


dharma said:


> If money is not so important (and portability too), then no question, from iFi: iCAN Pro (coming just now!) and iDAC Pro (in june-july)!


 
  
 As in, the price difference between the micro iCAN SE + iDAC2 stack contra just the iDSD 
 But yeah sure, is there any price figures out on the Pro series yet? How is the bass boost on it compared to the micro iCAN SE? (I know its silly, but I really like bass boost) 
  
 While we're on the subject (kinda) of bass boost, anyone know how many dB and at what Hz the 2 bass boost steps work on the micro iCAN SE? I've tried to find some info about it but, I just can't.


----------



## rickyleelee

Your writing skills put a lot of reviewers out of work. If you wrote an audio review, I would buy what you reviewed good or bad.


----------



## dharma

jgpk said:


> [...] But yeah sure, is there any price figures out on the Pro series yet? How is the bass boost on it compared to the micro iCAN SE? (I know its silly, but I really like bass boost)
> 
> While we're on the subject (kinda) of bass boost, anyone know how many dB and at what Hz the 2 bass boost steps work on the micro iCAN SE? I've tried to find some info about it but, I just can't.


 
 specs http://www.head-fi.org/t/795344/ifi-ican-pro-upcoming-dedicated-headphone-amp-release
 price http://www.musicdirect.com/p-364754-ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amp.aspx
 manual http://headpie.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/an-interview-with-ifi-audio-expatinjapan.html
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/ican-pro-featured-on-enjoy-the-music/
  
 iFi roots and future plans http://headpie.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/an-interview-with-ifi-audio-expatinjapan.html
 https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio/


----------



## gr8soundz

The iCan Pro will be about $1700 US and has 3 levels of xbass compared to 2 on the SE.


----------



## gbx2006

jgpk said:


> Overkill! But yeah I see your though process and that's exactly the reason I wanted your guys input on it. How do you like that setup anyway?


 
  
 I like it! In fact I like it so much I plan on selling my iCAN SE, iDSD, and anything I can around the house to buy the Pro iCAN and Pro iDSD after they both come out. Thinking/Hoping the IFI Pro series might be end game gear for me.


----------



## canali

clieos said:


> Micro iCAN SE + iDAC2 would be my choice if I am in your shoe. The major factor for me is that, while micro iDSD is no sloth on its headphone-out, it can't beat the micro iCAN SE.


 
  ok this i don't understand (remember i'm new here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ...i thought the micro ican se already had a very good dac in it....so why add the idac 2 as well?


----------



## ColonelBucket8

canali said:


> ok this i don't understand (remember i'm new here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 micro ican se is amp only. That's why need to add idac.


----------



## canali

colonelbucket8 said:


> micro ican se is amp only. That's why need to add idac.


 
 duh on my part...thanks (too many beers with my kfc and extra chicken gravy 
  
 so i presume that combo would sound better than the micro idsd on it's own?
 (i'm also reading of owners hooking up the ican micro se to the idsd...if i read correctly).
  
 would love to check out the ican pro..but $$$


----------



## ColonelBucket8

canali said:


> duh on my part...thanks (too many beers with my kfc and extra chicken gravy
> 
> so i presume that combo would sound better than the micro idsd on it's own?
> (i'm also reading of owners hooking up the ican micro se to the idsd...if i read correctly).
> ...


 

 The dac section in idsd is superior than idac while the ican se is superior than amp section in idsd. Add ican se to idsd, you get different beast.


----------



## canali

colonelbucket8 said:


> The dac section in idsd is superior than idac while the ican se is superior than amp section in idsd. Add ican se to idsd, you get different beast.



 
thank you...got it now.
 
that iFi stack is similar in price to the chord mojo...
so it begs to be asked:  has anyone compared such?


----------



## hugoboss

chord mojo is only for portable
 the power of amp is limited , ican se got more more juice in amp power
 and can be used in any desktop dac
  
 for sound quality sake its depend on your like
 but me, chord mojo is same level with micro idsd


----------



## ClieOS

colonelbucket8 said:


> The dac section in idsd is superior than idac while the ican se is superior than amp section in idsd. Add ican se to idsd, you get different beast.


 
  
 Let be more clear about this, the DAC in micro iDSD and iDAC2 are better than that of (the original) micro iDAC noticeably (as the original iDAC uses a different, lesser chip). But the DAC section between iDSD and iDAC2 are not really night and day in difference by any mean.
  
  


canali said:


> thank you...got it now.
> 
> that IfI stack is similar in price to the chord mojo...
> so it begs to be asked:  has anyone compared such?


 
  
 I have Mojo as well. An excellent portable DAC/amp on its own but I won't say it beats the micro iDSD alone or micro iDAC2+iCAN SE. I'll say it is a notch better than iDAC2 alone.


----------



## technobear

jgpk said:


> While we're on the subject (kinda) of bass boost, anyone know how many dB and at what Hz the 2 bass boost steps work on the micro iCAN SE? I've tried to find some info about it but, I just can't.




ClieOS posted a measurement of the XBASS on the micro iCAN:



in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/659776/impression-ifi-audio-idac-ican-iusb-power-trio-of-goodness#post_9353043

To my ears at least, the micro iCAN SE is very similar.

The XBASS on the micro iDSD falls somewhere between the two.


----------



## ClieOS

technobear said:


> To my ears at least, the micro iCAN SE is very similar.


 
  
 Not just similar, they are identical.


----------



## canali

is anyone also using the ipurifier 2 with their units?
  
  i know this whole 'pre-DAC', line and signal cleaning area can be considered inconsequential,
 or even snake oil to some.
  
 but others (darko) feels things like the jitterbug  and ipuriifer can make a diff.
  
 or the usb regen: http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/11/from-earth-to-jupiter-ifi-ipurifier-takes-usb-audio-further/
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/05/on-the-road-with-the-audioquest-jitterbug/
  
 i'm no techie, just trying to figure it all out.


----------



## Brooko

I tried both jitterbug and iPurifier2 with my iDSD (and also other amps). I didn't notice any audible difference. This may be because my ears are simply not sensitive enough to appreciate the difference, or that my system is pretty good already and doesn't need it.

I sent the iPurifier2 to another reviewer (it was actually mine - I won it) so will be interesting to see what he thinks (hears).


----------



## technobear

canali said:


> is anyone also using the ipurifier 2 with their units?
> 
> i know this whole 'pre-DAC', line and signal cleaning area can be considered inconsequential,
> or even snake oil to some.
> ...




The iPurifier 2 has its own thread. The first three posts should tell you all you need to know:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread


----------



## canali

technobear said:


> The iPurifier 2 has its own thread. The first three posts should tell you all you need to know:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread


 
 thanks for that info.


----------



## kbuzz

Wonder I anyone can offer some advice. I recently purchased a used micro idsd. The unit is starting to have trouble locking onto a signal on an I device. I have tried different turn on sequences to no avail. I tested it by swapping usb cords and trying the same on my mac. It will, show up as an external device and play for a while .....then the signal disappears and it no longer shows up as an external device....note its fully charged.... Any thoughts appreciated. At first this was intermittent now seems to be a permanent thing. 

would upgrading the firmware be helpful?

Secondly is the only way to treat the lack of balance on low volumes to use the ultra sensitively position. This seems a bit counter intuitive when my cans prefer the turbo mode....

Thanks in advance


----------



## iFi audio

kbuzz said:


> Wonder I anyone can offer some advice. I recently purchased a used micro idsd. The u it is starting to have trouble locking on to a signal on an I device. I have tried different turn on sequences to no avail. Any thoughts appreciated. At first this was intermittent now seems to be a permanent thing.
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
  
 Hi,
  
 1. Any customer can open a Support Ticket and ask the techies to help you troubleshoot.
  
 2. If you are using iPad/iPhone, then you dont need a driver. So by trial and error see if it is the i-device port or CCK or USB cable or the micro DSD port.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## kbuzz

T


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> 1. Any customer can open a Support Ticket and ask the techies to help you troubleshoot.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the reply.  I will open a ticket. Note that I tested it by swapping usb cords and trying the same on my desktop mac. It will show up as an external device and play for a while .....then the signal disappears and it no longer shows up as an external device....note its fully charged..


----------



## iFi audio

kbuzz said:


> T
> Thanks for the reply.  I will open a ticket. Note that I tested it by swapping usb cords and trying the same on my desktop mac. It will show up as an external device and play for a while .....then the signal disappears and it no longer shows up as an external device....note its fully charged..


 
  
 Hi,
  
 No problem. The techs know as they get asked all sorts of questions so they usually know pretty quickly the things to test/check for.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## technobear

kbuzz said:


> Secondly is the only way to treat the lack of balance on low volumes to use the ultra sensitively position. This seems a bit counter intuitive when my cans prefer the turbo mode....
> 
> Thanks in advance




If you need to go into the imbalance zone to get a low enough volume then it sounds as though you shouldn't be using turbo mode.

What are the headphones?


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> If you need to go into the imbalance zone to get a low enough volume then it sounds as though you shouldn't be using turbo mode.
> 
> What are the headphones?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct. This chart is the one we use for people to reference:

 Cheers.


----------



## howdy

Anyone using this with the DX80 or FiiO X5ii? I want one or the other being that they are Dual mSD so I can have tons of music for this great device.


----------



## rayquaza

Hi.. I use the Fiio X5II(128+64gb) as transport with the ifi micro idsd via coaxial connection. I loved the setup. Now experimenting with my Onkyo dp-x1 dap via USB otg connection@384khz. But with fiio x5ii,digital coaxial is limited at only DSD 64. With the onkyo I could push the idsd micro even further via USB otg.. Hope this helps.


----------



## howdy

rayquaza said:


> Hi.. I use the Fiio X5II(128+64gb) as transport with the ifi micro idsd via coaxial connection. I loved the setup. Now experimenting with my Onkyo dp-x1 dap via USB otg connection@384khz. But with fiio x5ii,digital coaxial is limited at only DSD 64. With the onkyo I could push the idsd micro even further via USB otg.. Hope this helps.


 
 It does help, Thanks. I recently sold my FiiO X5i before getting this, so now i want something with more memory. I have a iPod touch with Tidal HiFi to use with the  iFi as well. Also im anxiously awaiting the release of the iBasso DX200.


----------



## Dixter

ifi suggests that you use the Apple products (iphone/ipad/ipod) with the Onkyo HD player....    
 this is a great combo as the Onkyo HD player recognizes the DSD DAC of the iDSD and does a real time DSD conversion of all your songs.. and of course it plays all of your DSD songs back in native format....    to put the X5 as a transport limits the output of the idsd...  
  
 see level 4:
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/iphone-ipad-ipod-touch/


----------



## iFi audio

dixter said:


> ifi suggests that you use the Apple products (iphone/ipad/ipod) with the Onkyo HD player....
> this is a great combo as the Onkyo HD player recognizes the DSD DAC of the iDSD and does a real time DSD conversion of all your songs.. and of course it plays all of your DSD songs back in native format....    to put the X5 as a transport lilmits the output of the idsd...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct. Optical is limited to 96kHz.
  
 Or get a Sony Z-Series. You can swap out the SD micro cards. For us, this is a killer Android transport.
  
 See Level 2 and upwards:
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/android/
   
Cheers.


----------



## canali

well it's official...i've taken a big swig of the iFi koolaid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 and am soon to be an owner of a *micro iDSD....*
 just bought one used/great condition from a fellow headfier,
 who was on this forum, actually.
  
 iFi reminds me of Chord: no one knocks their quality or sound
 ...good PR, cust service and innovative products
 offering great bang for the buck. what's not to like.
  
 will be interesting to see how it makes my music sound. 
 currently am using the Dragonfly as a DAC from my laptop to either iems (sony xb90ex, sony7550)
 or cans (sony 7520, senn hd650)...and occasionally have it hooked into my headphone tube amp
 (the _mapletree ear purist plus_, 2 pics below).
  
 so gradually 'm moving up the food chain to better sound...
 now i might look into a USB hub or purifier.
 but we'll see.


----------



## howdy

canali said:


> well it's official...i've taken a big swig of the iFi koolaid
> and am soon to be an owner of a micro idsd.
> just bought one used/great condition from a fellow headfier, who was on this forum, actually.
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats!!!
  
 I have a loaner one right now but will be buying a new one this friday from a Headfi-er as well. You will love it! what source are you going to use with it?


----------



## canali

howdy said:


> Congrats!!!
> 
> I have a loaner one right now but will be buying a new one this friday from a Headfi-er as well. You will love it! what source are you going to use with it?


 
  
 compared to you guys I'm a newbie who is pretty green, lol.
  
 my source for now is only my laptop. (sold off alot of my gear a few yrs ago
 only getting back into audio (mostly portable) as of late.
  
 just getting into learning about downloading ...flac vs alac etc.
 have a nano (yes stop laughing) with 450 itunes
 ...so maybe there is a way to have them sound better when i'm playing them
 (from itunes site) thru my  laptop to dac.
  
 also investigating more online places offering quality music at good prices
 (have to be careful being a canuck: our dollar sucks right now so any US prices means we tack on 40% more)
 HD tracks not here yet.
  
 feel free to suggest other places/sites for quality music at good prices.
  
 also enjoy the option of streaming (and the exploration it's offered to me)
 and hope that the bitrate only increases as that market matures.


----------



## howdy

Well you can always go to the library and get your music there, get some cds a rip them to FLAC. HD tracks is expensive, I only get CDs I REALLY like from there.


----------



## canali

howdy said:


> Well you can always go to the library and get your music there, get some cds a rip them to FLAC. HD tracks is expensive, I only get CDs I REALLY like from there.


 
  
 many thanks...duh on me for not thinking of that.
 heck 'tis better than affordable or even cheap: 'tis free!


----------



## boomtube

Need some help. I just bought a tube amp/... RSA Raptor. What type of cable would I need to use the Micro as a DAC only connecting to the Raptor?
  
 SPDIF out to RCA on the Raptor? 
  
 Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## DomieMic65

boomtube said:


> Need some help. I just bought a tube amp/... RSA Raptor. What type of cable would I need to use the Micro as a DAC only connecting to the Raptor?
> 
> SPDIF out to RCA on the Raptor?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.



You need a common RCA cable. 
There is one in the micros box! 
Set it in direct mode from the switch below the RCA output (while turned off) and you are good to go...


----------



## boomtube

domiemic65 said:


> You need a common RCA cable.
> There is one in the micros box!
> Set it in direct mode from the switch below the RCA output (while turned off) and you are good to go...


 
 I did what you posted but I still get no sound. does my music player have to be off too...to I turn the amp on first? and then the Micro and DAP?
  
 All I ever listen to is IEM's and I've never used the Micro as a DAC only


----------



## ClieOS

boomtube said:


> Need some help. I just bought a tube amp/... RSA Raptor. What type of cable would I need to use the Micro as a DAC only connecting to the Raptor?
> 
> *SPDIF out to RCA on the Raptor? *
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


 
  
  


boomtube said:


> I did what you posted but I still get no sound. does my music player have to be off too...to I turn the amp on first? and then the Micro and DAP?
> 
> All I ever listen to is IEM's and I've never used the Micro as a DAC only


 
  
 Not SPDIF-out, that's digital output. Sending digital signal to a tube amp of course won't give you any sound.
  
 Analog output are the other two, the red and the white RCA socket.


----------



## DomieMic65

boomtube said:


> I did what you posted but I still get no sound. does my music player have to be off too...to I turn the amp on first? and then the Micro and DAP?
> 
> All I ever listen to is IEM's and I've never used the Micro as a DAC only



Unfortunately I have never used the coax input of the micro. If you are listening through this I can not help you. 
You can try connecting through usb to a computer just to make sure that the amp works fine.


----------



## boomtube

clieos said:


> Not SPDIF-out, that's digital output. Sending digital signal to a tube amp of course won't give you any sound.
> 
> Analog output are the other two, the red and the white RCA socket.


 
 Here's my setup:
  
 I have a Sony NW-ZX2 line-out to my Micro with the Sony WMC-NWH10 USB Conversion Cable.
  
I have the RCA red/white connectors connected to the Micro and then to my Raptor(red and white connectors match color)...is this correct?
  
Is there a sequence turning the different components on? ie..turn the amp on first,  then the DAP and last the Micro?


----------



## ClieOS

boomtube said:


> Here's my setup:
> 
> I have a Sony NW-ZX2 line-out to my Micro with the Sony WMC-NWH10 USB Conversion Cable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Turn both the ZX2 and micro iDSD on first, follow by connecting the WSMC-NWH10 to micro iDSD, then connect the other end to ZX2. I am not too familiar with how the Android system runs on ZX2, but there is a possibility that you need to enable or detect USB devices in the system setting.


----------



## iFi audio

*Unified Firmware 5.1* *Gelato and then some*
  
  

  
Southport, UK – 18th February 2016
  
  
*Latest U**nified **Firmware **v5.1 **‘Gelato’ (for Stereo 50 /micro iDSD / micro iDAC2 / nano iDSD)*
  
 The very latest in-house firmware[1] version 5.1 for *ALL* iFi products[2] is available:

All-new XMOS ‘deep-core processes’ software for different behaviour of SPDIF (after XMOS previously modified the USB section).
Enables DSD256 for 48kHz based sample rates up-conversion when using DSD256 in DoP mode.
Fixed issues surrounding DoP standard; including ‘clicks’ when changing tracks and sonic differences to native DSD and other minor bug fixes.
  
 For customers with particular requirements, there are two firmware sub-versions (PLEASE read carefully):
  
 2) *For nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 v5.1A* - *Enables DOP256 operation*

This enables DSD256(DoP) operation, which requires 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level.  
Nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 CANNOT decode 768kHz at the DAC level, but they can all be programmed to receive 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level hence enable DSD256(DoP). 
With 5.1A, the user MUST make sure to manually alter the PCM audio settings correctly (especially Mac), otherwise there will be no audio output at all.
In other words, when playing PCM files, the sample rate must NOT set to be higher than 384kHz.  Only set the sampling rate to 768kHz when one wants to play DSD256(DoP).
There is no need to use this firmware if one uses ‘native mode’ (not DoP) to play DSD or DSD files are not played at all.
Do NOT use 5.1A on any other products other than nano iDSD and micro iDAC2.
 
 3) *For iDSD micro Firmware v5.1B - Disable Sleep Mode (Smartphone users ONLY)*

This is strictly for Smartphone users ONLY, there is no other reason to use 5.1B on the micro iDSD.
The micro iDSD micro will try to recharge while in Sleep Mode (e.g. when connected to a PC).  If connected to a Smartphone which is ‘seen’ as a computer, it will recharge via the Smartphone.
5.1B disables the Sleep Mode within the micro iDSD; hence it will no longer try to recharge during Sleep Mode and flatten the Smartphone’s battery.
Do NOT use 5.1B on any other products other than micro iDSD.
  
  
 For detailed instructions and the download files, please follow this link:
http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
  
 or on the website, select 'Support' > 'Download'
     [1] WARNING: Do NOT flash non-iFi products on the XMOS platform with iFi firmware!

  [2] iFi Native DSD-capable DACs so original iDAC excluded so do NOT update using v5.10.


----------



## rickyleelee

Try each item one step at a time. if you plug them all together and you are not sure as some are new then when something is wrong, you can't chase down.


----------



## munchmuch

The windows link for the iDSD doesn't look like its updated?


----------



## iFi audio

munchmuch said:


> The windows link for the iDSD doesn't look like its updated?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idac2-ifi-xmos-firmware/
  
 The same 5.1 firmware can be sourced from here.
  
 We'll update the micro iDSD asap.
  
 Thanks


----------



## dharma

munchmuch said:


> The windows link for the iDSD doesn't look like its updated?


 
  
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idac2-ifi-xmos-firmware/
> 
> ...


 

 Also, now on http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idac2-ifi-xmos-firmware/ it is said confusingly (in the beginning):
  
 After having passed extensive testing, the iFi XMOS firmware version *5.1 ‘Vanilla’* is ready for public download.
 This latest firmware *v5.1 ‘Vanilla’* is unified...
  
 and little below
  
 1) Firmware *v5.1 ‘Gelato’...*
  
 plus
  
 firmware dowloadable in http://ifi-audio.com/micro-*idac2*-ifi-xmos-firmware/ is called iFi_XMOS_V5.1&V*5.1A*.zip
 and firmware dowloadable in http://ifi-audio.com/micro-*idsd-ifi*-xmos-firmware/ is called iFi_XMOS_V5.1&V*5.1B*.zip
  
 so, are they different?


----------



## jhwalker

It appears the ZIP file for the Mac download of 5.1A (for Nano) is not usable - I've downloaded it several times but various ZIP utilities report the archive is corrupt.
  
 5.1 (for Micro) is fine.


----------



## sandalaudio

Just tried the 5.10 for micro iDSD from the official website, and the update worked fine.
  
 However, I notice a more distinct "blip" noise between song transitions and end of song for DSD tracks.
 Tried ASIO, WASAPI, KS, all having the same blip noise.
  
 I went back to 5.00 again, and there's no noise. Everything is fine, so I think I'll stay with 5.00 for the time being.
  
 EDIT: To be more specific, it's Windows 10 with the latest JRiver. "Blip" sound occurs on 5.10 with DSD64 DSF files, regardless of ASIO, WASAPI, KS, ASIO(DoP)


----------



## doctorcilantro

I've been doing USB DAC for so long......I can't figure how I would test the DSD512 over S/PDIF.
  
 Do I need a compatible digital i/o on my PC?
  
 I figured I could change bitstreaming to S/PDIF in JRMC, and turn off DoP. But I only have a Realtek Digital output on the motherboard and it's not working...
  
 I've got ASIO4ALL mapped to the Realtek but none of the JRMC settings will allow Native DSDx8 to be played...


----------



## Dadracer

I really like my micro iDSD very much.So I have now helped it provide even better sound quality by adding on the iUSB and iPurifier2 with associated Mercury and Gemini cables. Perfection? Well I thought so until ifi Audio gave me a loan of the new iCAN SE and I realised it was not perfect enough. So now I have added the iCAN micro SE and all is well and perfection has finally been reached.........or has it?
 The one small stupid thing that annoyed me most was the USB adaptor that I needed to use between the Gemini cable and the micro iDSD which always looked tacky and as if it could fall out as the connection felt quite wobbly!!!
  
 So finally with the help of Forza Audioworks (well known for their high quality and cost effective cables) I have got a high quality adaptor which clicks into place with great precision. Does it provide an improved sound quality..........hmmm not sure yet as It only arrived at lunchtime so I will try it out over the weekend and see if I can confirm.
  
 In any event it looks so much better and doesn't wobble when connected up.....so finally life is perfect.......or maybe I could do with some shorter cables for my HD800s.......where did I put those Forza Audioworks details??????
  
 Oh and here's a photo comparing the 2 adaptors for any other obsessive compulsive type folks here.


----------



## Dixter

adapter looks good.... can you provide a link for possible purchase...
  
 thanks


----------



## rickyleelee

Do over USB. jrivers works fine on DSD512 on usb. Same for foobarr. why you mess with spdif?


----------



## iFi audio

jhwalker said:


> It appears the ZIP file for the Mac download of 5.1A (for Nano) is not usable - I've downloaded it several times but various ZIP utilities report the archive is corrupt.
> 
> 5.1 (for Micro) is fine.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Can you try again? We re-loaded to the server.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## jhwalker

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you try again? We re-loaded to the server.
> 
> Cheers.


 
 Yes, the Nano 5.1 firmware download is working now - thanks!


----------



## Dixter

to ifi....  I noticed the PDF file looks to be for version 5.0 ???   might need to be updated...


----------



## DomieMic65

I also confirm the "blop" sounds from JRiver 21 on Mac between track changes in DSD upsampling mode!
 I will not go back to 5.0 though because I think that there is a sonic improvement in 5.1!!
 I will also try it with my Win 10 laptop and I will report...
 With Audirvana Plus there is no problem, upsampling or not!


----------



## fordski

I've also experienced the clicking on track changes with 5.10 on my idsd. The pops are loud enough that I'm rather nervous about using it with the new firmware. I'm using Roon integrated with HQPlayer up sampling to DSD 512. I have no clicks with PCM. Edit: I'm using HQPlayer on a MAC to an NAA on a Linux machine so no DOP. I'll probably go back to 5.0 although I do like the more seamless switching back and forth with toxlink on 5.10 when watching movies etc.


----------



## rafaelpernil

domiemic65 said:


> I also confirm the "blop" sounds from JRiver 21 on Mac between track changes in DSD upsampling mode!
> I will not go back to 5.0 though because I think that there is a sonic improvement in 5.1!!
> I will also try it with my Win 10 laptop and I will report...
> With Audirvana Plus there is no problem, upsampling or not!


 
 Same here with foobar2000 using Windows 10! And it even froze foobar2000!


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## boomtube

clieos said:


> Not SPDIF-out, that's digital output. Sending digital signal to a tube amp of course won't give you any sound.
> 
> Analog output are the other two, the red and the white RCA socket.


 
 I've done this with your advice and technical advice from iFi with no results...tried 2 different DAP's. I get great music from the iDSD when I'm listening through it, but nothing when I'm connected to the Raptor.
  
 Is there any chance the Micro just isn't compatible with the Raptor? Very frustrated.


----------



## Dixter

sounds like I'm going to be holding off on this FW upgrade...  no reason to cause any damage to equipment or ears...  thanks to all who are posting that there is an issue...


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## dharma

No problems with new 'unified' V.5.1 firmware (dsf, dff formats playback OK, with PC Foobar2000 output->DSD:ASIO:IFI...)


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## rafaelpernil

dharma said:


> No problems with new 'unified' V.5.1 firmware (dsf, dff formats playback OK, with PC Foobar2000 output->DSD:ASIO:IFI...)


 
 I have found the problem!!!!!! Don´t use DoP marker in foo_dsd_asio DSD Playback Method, use ASIO Native instead. Now 0 problems! Perfect audio again. And I also noticed the SQ improvement!
  
 Regards,
 Rafael


----------



## RichardLoveMusi

rafaelpernil said:


> I have found the problem!!!!!! Don´t use DoP marker in foo_dsd_asio DSD Playback Method, use ASIO Native instead. Now 0 problems! Perfect audio again. And I also noticed the SQ improvement!
> 
> Regards,
> Rafael


 

 Yes, I expereinced the same. After upgrading to 5.1:
 Windows8 + ASIO Native ----> All good.
 Windows8 + DOP -> Clicking/bopping between song, actually it's bopping when a DSD song stops, no issue for PCM.
 Android (LG G2) UAPP (only can do DOP) ---> Same clicking/bopping issue.
  
 Since I mostly use Android UAPP, so I have to rolled it back to 5.0 and hopefully IFI will address this issue soon.
  
 Regard,
  
 Richard.


----------



## sandalaudio

rafaelpernil said:


> I have found the problem!!!!!! Don´t use DoP marker in foo_dsd_asio DSD Playback Method, use ASIO Native instead. Now 0 problems! Perfect audio again. And I also noticed the SQ improvement!
> 
> Regards,
> Rafael


 
  
 With the JRiver, I tried ASIO native and ASIO (DoP) modes, and both exhibit the DSD pop noise on the new 5.1
 Tried 5.0 and the pop noise does not exist in both ASIO native and ASIO (DoP).


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## sandalaudio

doctorcilantro said:


> I've been doing USB DAC for so long......I can't figure how I would test the DSD512 over S/PDIF.
> 
> Do I need a compatible digital i/o on my PC?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't quite understand what you are trying to do.
 DSD512 should work via USB on native drivers, but I don't think it would work via S/PDIF, because that would be DoP not native.
  
 DoP of DSD256 requires 768kHz PCM for encapsulation, so I would have thought that DSD512 would require a S/PDIF output that can support PCM 1536kHz. That would be crazy.
 (S/PDIF starts to lose signal integrity above 192kHz. The actual standard caps out at 96kHz).


----------



## canali

sandalaudio said:


> I don't quite understand what you are trying to do.
> DSD512 should work via USB on native drivers, but I don't think it would work via S/PDIF, because that would be DoP not native.
> 
> DoP of DSD256 requires 768kHz PCM for encapsulation, so I would have thought that DSD512 would require a S/PDIF output that can support PCM 1536kHz. That would be crazy.
> (S/PDIF starts to lose signal integrity above 192kHz. The actual standard caps out at 96kHz).


 
  
 one thing about this product: it somewhat forces you to learn about different technologies out there and about symetries between each.


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## doctorcilantro

My Vega DAC has SPDIF that accepts only native DSD, not DoP DSD over USB, or native DSD over USB.
  
 I thought max was DSD256 over DoP...mention by iFi in this regard upthread confused me. I think I used to understand this more, likely I have forgotten one can do DSD over USB in native with DoP. I was thinking you needed S/PDIF based on my limited experience with the Vega and S/PDIF in general.
  
 thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

boomtube said:


> I've done this with your advice and technical advice from iFi with no results...tried 2 different DAP's. I get great music from the iDSD when I'm listening through it, but nothing when I'm connected to the Raptor.
> 
> Is there any chance the Micro just isn't compatible with the Raptor? Very frustrated.




Check if you have the right input selection on the back of Raptor, then check if the is any output from iDSD rca. Lastly, try another rca cable.


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## LoryWiv

Firmware 5.1 installed fine, on my Windoes 7 PC, no "pops" bertween tracks w/DSD64-DSF, Not certain I can detect a sound quality difference...I use FooBar / Foo_ASIO_DSD. Is there any advantage to using iFi HD USB Audio driver instead?


----------



## Dadracer

dixter said:


> adapter looks good.... can you provide a link for possible purchase...
> 
> thanks


 
 I spoke to Matt at Forza and he is going to add a section onto their website over the weekend. Meantime if you want more details here is his email  <matthew@forzaaudioworks.com>
  
 Hope that helps


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## doctorcilantro

****, I think I never noticed that the last firmware Strawberry was not for iDSD, I didn't see nano iDSD (wasn't aware there was there product). It was working fine afterwards for weeks, but now solid yellow light and device not detected in Windows any longer (by USB panel). That explains my confusion about enabling DSD256....that was for nano iDSD?! Ugh. How did it let me update the firmware!


----------



## doctorcilantro

doctorcilantro said:


> ****, I think I never noticed that the last firmware Strawberry was not for iDSD, I didn't see nano iDSD (wasn't aware there was there product). It was working fine afterwards for weeks, but now solid yellow light and device not detected in Windows any longer (by USB panel). That explains my confusion about enabling DSD256....that was for nano iDSD?! Ugh. How did it let me update the firmware!


 
  
  
 Whew, it's back after re-install and reboot of driver. I still think I have the wrong firmware. Need to double-check, and figure if it is safe to move on to the new one directly.


----------



## doctorcilantro

Got it. Newest firm. Correct settings in JRMC. DSD512 sounding good.


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## maczh2002

Don't know what exactly iFi did with the firmware, but somehow detail retrieval and soundstage is much much better!
  
 DSD64 with audirvana. Able to discern subtle background noises like the bassist sighing.


----------



## Dixter

dadracer said:


> I spoke to Matt at Forza and he is going to add a section onto their website over the weekend. Meantime if you want more details here is his email  <matthew@forzaaudioworks.com>
> 
> Hope that helps


 
 Thanks... I'll keep an eye out for it....


----------



## rickyleelee

Who knows. I will try this weekend. Will listen and report.


----------



## gr8soundz

ifi audio said:


> *Latest U**nified **Firmware **v5.1 **‘Gelato’ (for Stereo 50 /micro iDSD / micro iDAC2 / nano iDSD)*
> 
> 
> All-new XMOS ‘deep-core processes’ software for different behaviour of SPDIF (after XMOS previously modified the USB section).
> ...


 


maczh2002 said:


> Don't know what exactly iFi did with the firmware, but somehow detail retrieval and soundstage is much much better!
> 
> DSD64 with audirvana. Able to discern subtle background noises like the bassist sighing.


 
  
 Agreed; it does sound better. Played 2 full albums last night and noticed more details in almost every song! The new XMOS deep-core processes must be unleashing more from the chipset.


----------



## rafaelpernil

gr8soundz said:


> Agreed; it does sound better. Played 2 full albums last night and noticed more details in almost every song! The new XMOS deep-core processes must be unleashing more from the chipset.


 
 Yeah, I am experiencing the same as you. More detail and better soundstage. It is like if a veil has been lifted up. I didn't believe possible improving the sound I already have with my micro iUSB3.0! The only thing I am worried is DoP marker noises and a slight buffer delay which I didn't experienced with V5.0B.
  
 Good job iFi!!
  
 Regards,
  
 Rafael


----------



## Dixter

I decided to go ahead and load the new FW and have spent the entire morning working with it...  here are my results...  YMV
  
 First I mounted my Nano and my Micro and verified that both were playing fine... they did...
  
 I updated the Nano to the base 5.1 ... and it played back without issue... tested on my laptop and my desktop and iphone 5 and iphone 6+
  
 I updated the Micro to the base 5.1 ....  and it DID NOT play back well at all....   on both computers I used JRiver Media Center 21 and during play back of my targeted DSD songs I could clearly hear short pops...  sounded like someone throwing small rocks against a metal trash can...
  
 I went through all of the settings and even updated the USB driver to the latest...   the noise was reproduced via both computers.. so I'm thinking the FW update might be the issue... so I loaded the FW again ( 2 more times ) and checked the play back again... and the noise was still there...  on a whim I hooked the Micro up to my iphone 6+....   played back the same targeted DSD songs via the Onkyo HD player..
 they played back perfect... very nice sounding...  
 reread the release notes and it seems the 5.1b version is for the iphone (smartphone) so I figured I might as well go ahead and push the FW up to the 5.1b for the iphone and it works...   then I mounted the Micro back onto the two computers and guess what...  no more pops...
 the playback on my Micro with FW 5.1B play back is fine...  
  
 for you that are hearing the noise with the micro... you might be able to use the 5.1B FW version to get the noise fixed ???
 I never had any issues with the nano...


----------



## mbusby

Updated to 5.1 with no problems. Sounds real fine... lasts a long time.


----------



## ultraman

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Correct. Optical is limited to 96kHz.
> 
> ...


 
 What about Sony M-series (M5), will it work as well as Z?


----------



## sandalaudio

dixter said:


> for you that are hearing the noise with the micro... you might be able to use the 5.1B FW version to get the noise fixed ???
> I never had any issues with the nano...


 
  
 I've just tried the 5.1B based on your findings, but unfortunately the pop noise on DSD wasn't resolved for me. It behaved the same way as 5.10.
  
 This is with micro iDSD on Windows 10 with the latest JRiver, playing DSF DSD64 files.
  
 I found that ASIO with DoP disabled has the least amount of pop noise, but still quite noticeable compared to 5.0. Going back to 5.0 fixes the pop noise completely regardless of ASIO or DoP.
  
 Hope there is a good fix for this, because some people reported the 5.10 sounds better, but I can't use it because it gives the speakers a big pop.


----------



## Franatic

I have loaded the new 5.1 firmware into my micro idsd which I am using as a DAC with line output only in my desktop system. I can report that there is a noticeable SQ improvement in my setup going from 5.0 to 5.1.
  
 However, I have an issue. I get a loud pop at the end of playback of Dop that is a startling and annoying problem. So I have to decide if I can live with it, or give up the SQ gain and go back to 5.0. It is disappointing because this was an issue that was fixed with a previous firmware upgrade. That ifi makes a subsequent upgrade that reintroduces the problem is very surprising.
  
 Dear ifi, please fix this!


----------



## canali

seems the newly released* **nano iUSB3.0* might be a good partner with the iFi micro iDSD.
 
*http://www.head-fi.org/t/797988/ifi-product-launch-nano-iusb3-0-the-baby-bentley-to-the-micro-iusb3-0*
 
iFi's reply (below) to a poster asking about symmetry with their own system and which hub/conditioner to buy
(kudos to iFi for attempting to clarify this often nebulous area)
 
 
6 days, 17 hours ago

THREAD STARTER 


 

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/19/100x100px-LS-19ff24e9_iDACtop.jpeg[/img]

iFi audio
*Sponsor: iFi Audio*





 
offline

1,468 Posts. Joined 3/2013





mgiara said:


> Would a beginner be able to appreciate a bit of kit this advanced?
> 
> The specs look solid to my amateur eyes and it's a modest investment comparatively





*Hi,*
 
*To answer your question, the following would be our recommendation.*
 
*If your USB DAC is:*
 
*1) USB dac <US$500 eg nano DSD = iPurifier 2 (ie. no need for mUSB3.0 or nUSB3.0).*
 
*2) USB dac US$500 to US$5k eg iFi/Chord = nano USB3.0.*
 
*3) USB dac >US$5k eg DCS/AMR = micro iUSB3.0.*
 
*Hopefully this summary shows that if you have a <US$1k DAC, then the micro iUSB3.0 is overkill *
*as unlikely to hear the additional performance.*
 
*But if you are thinking of upgrading in the future your DAC, then the nano USB3.0 is the ideal one*
*as it is half the price of the micro USB3.0 flagship but has 85% of the performance/features. *
*It does need the mains from the iPOWER so is not portable like the iPurifier2 which is USB-powered.*
 


> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-iusb3-0/
> 
> 
> Southport, UK – 11th February 2016
> ...


----------



## coastal1

If I'm using the Micro as purely a DAC, should there be any SQ difference between the following:
  
 (1) iphone 6s playing Tidal 16bit track saved offline->Micro (via CCK)->amp
  
 vs.
  
 (2) PC playing same version of track in 16 bit FLAC via JRiver (ASIO, no DoP settings)-> Micro (via stock iFi USB)->amp


----------



## iFi audio

franatic said:


> Dear ifi, please fix this!


 
  
 We're on the case. Open an STS ticket and the techies will make a note and send through to you when ready. Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

canali said:


> seems the newly released* **nano iUSB3.0* might be a good partner with the iFi micro iDSD.
> 
> *http://www.head-fi.org/t/797988/ifi-product-launch-nano-iusb3-0-the-baby-bentley-to-the-micro-iusb3-0*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Avatar Acoustics will inform you of your nearest retailer.
  
 James@avataracoustics.com
  
 +1678-817-0573
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Franatic

ifi audio said:


> We're on the case. Open an STS ticket and the techies will make a note and send through to you when ready. Cheers.


 
 HI ifi,
 Yes, will do! Thank you for the quick response and the knowledge you guys are working on it.
  
 Did I ever tell you how much I love this Micro? I really do!


----------



## Franatic

ifi audio said:


> We're on the case. Open an STS ticket and the techies will make a note and send through to you when ready. Cheers.


 
 Dear ifi,
 I've tried to reach you through the Support Center but it seems you don't know me anymore. I am now locked out from trying to log in or get a password reset. I see no way to even send you an email for assistance without a recognized account.


----------



## iFi audio

franatic said:


> Dear ifi,
> I've tried to reach you through the Support Center but it seems you don't know me anymore. I am now locked out from trying to log in or get a password reset. I see no way to even send you an email for assistance without a recognized account.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 PM us or email info@ifi-audio.com
  
 We haven't locked you out on purpose - if you try too many times with wrong password etc it will auto-lock.  We'll have you up and running.


----------



## Dixter

@ ifi audio.... .  when do you plan on shipping out the ipurifier 2 with the correct USB connector for the idsd micro....    like to get one please...
  
 thanks


----------



## Triodemode

With several posts reporting improved sound quality I am wanting to load the new 5.1 firmware however, can anybody give any feedback if 5.1 will work on a desktop running Windows XP?  BTW, I am still running the 4.06 version. 
  
 On a side note, the battery on my micro goes dead after only about two hours of use, requiring me to shut the unit off and on again to put it into charging mode.  The micro stays in ECO mode and I use the line out only.  It also gets constant power from my computer's USB jack.  Additionally, the unit seems to charge fine with the LED periodically changing from blue to blinking green throughout the day when not in use.


----------



## gr8soundz

dixter said:


> @ ifi audio.... .  when do you plan on shipping out the ipurifier 2 with the correct USB connector for the idsd micro....    like to get one please...
> 
> thanks


 
 +1


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## Dadracer

Plug the iP2 ahead of your iUSB and it works better and no adapter needed.


----------



## dharma

sandalaudio said:


> I've just tried the 5.1B based on your findings, but unfortunately the pop noise on DSD wasn't resolved for me. It behaved the same way as 5.10.
> 
> This is with micro iDSD on Windows 10 with the latest JRiver, playing DSF DSD64 files.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It sounds *different*, there seems to be more 'texture/detail' notably in middle-upper part of sound. With my 'desktop' usage Micro iDSD -Lake People headamp -Sennheiser HD800 hp, there is no direct need for this.
 Interestingly, with my setup, firmware 5.0 seems to have more 'black/empty' background behind each sound/note and each sound starting point seems to be more clear. Vers. 5.0 seems to to be little more on cooler' side and 'relaxed'.
 With very good recordings it is possible to say, that at least acoustical instruments have little (but perceivable) different 'timbre/sound' with firmware 5.0 or 5.1...
 I don't know which version is more correct/true to original recordings... With highly detailed/analytical HD800 I prefer 'cooler' version of firmware


----------



## sandalaudio

dharma said:


> It sounds *different*, there seems to be more 'texture/detail' notably in middle-upper part of sound. With my 'desktop' usage Micro iDSD -Lake People headamp -Sennheiser HD800 hp, there is no direct need for this.
> Interestingly, with my setup, firmware 5.0 seems to have more 'black/empty' background behind each sound/note and each sound starting point seems to be more clear. Vers. 5.0 seems to to be little more on cooler' side and 'relaxed'.
> With very good recordings it is possible to say, that at least acoustical instruments have little (but perceivable) different 'timbre/sound' with firmware 5.0 or 5.1...
> I don't know which version is more correct/true to original recordings... With highly detailed/analytical HD800 I prefer 'cooler' version of firmware


 
  
 Hmm... I guess I will have to compare the 5.0 and 5.1 quite seriously. I'm always a bit skeptical about the firmware update affecting the sounds (especially on DAPs, a lot of people go over the top about it), but Knowing iFi does a lot of good in-house R&D, it sounds plausible.


----------



## sandalaudio

I was wondering if anyone has compared the micro iDSD and micro iDAC2 as a fixed line out USB DAC.
  
 This may sound wasteful, but I've been using my micro iDSD often  as a fixed line out DAC for my home amp setup, so I'm thinking about buying the micro iDAC2 just for convenience sake.
 That way I can dedicate the micro iDSD for portable use, and have the micro iDAC2 permanently installed as my home USB DAC.
  
 It would motivate me a great deal if there is any indication that micro iDAC2 sounds better than micro iDSD for that purpose.


----------



## howdy

Anyone know where to get a right angle rca coax to coax. So this Micro to DX90


----------



## sandalaudio

howdy said:


> Anyone know where to get a right angle rca coax to coax. So this Micro to DX90


 
  
 Don't you need a right angle RCA coax to 3.5mm coax, like this?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/766310/new-ibasso-portable-amp-dac-ibasso-d14-bushmaster/45#post_11755326
  
 Not sure who would sell them but should be easy to DIY.


----------



## howdy

Yep that would be it. I'm not that skilled to make my own.


----------



## dharma

sandalaudio said:


> Hmm... I guess I will have to compare the 5.0 and 5.1 quite seriously. I'm always a bit skeptical about the firmware update affecting the sounds (especially on DAPs, a lot of people go over the top about it), but Knowing iFi does a lot of good in-house R&D, it sounds plausible.


 
  
 Hello,
 those changes are on '*hint*' level changes, and not so plainly 'obvious'...
 and my 'mother-tongue' is not English, so words/terms used are maybe 'non-standard' or even could be misleading somehow....
 For musical example I used
 Art Lande track no.5 'Droplets', from 'KISS IN A SHADOW' (piano) [its easier to listen string chords echoes very subtle fading with vers 5.0]
 Dayan Kai track no.1 'When you know', from 'SPECIAL EVENT 15 NOVEMBER 2012' (guitar and voice) [5.1 brings little more facture to voice and guitar and just a hint more of voice 'ss-ing' too]
 Kare Nordstoga track no.18 'Sandvold. Olgelimprovisata...', from 'THE NORDIC SOUND - 2L audiophile reference recordings' (organ) [easier to feel the start/presence of organ 'notes' with 5.0]
  
 I repeat, some changes are really audibly very subtle or even on 'feeling' level... and somehow I prefer to use Micro iDSD running from battery ('turned on' before connecting with computer) too... .


----------



## Rearwing

I am finding with both my Nano and Micro iDSD's that the new FW has increased the texture, it appears to be most noticeable for me on brass instruments and bass notes. I appreciate I might be suffering from expectation bias, but there does seem to be a change in granularity. I am currently listening to Kirsty MacColl's 'Desperate Character' and it sounds fantastic! 
  
 Thank you iFi.


----------



## JootecFromMars

rearwing said:


> I am finding with both my Nano and Micro iDSD's that the new FW has increased the texture, it appears to be most noticeable for me on brass instruments and bass notes. I appreciate I might be suffering from expectation bias, but there does seem to be a change in granularity. I am currently listening to Kirsty MacColl's 'Desperate Character' and it sounds fantastic!
> 
> Thank you iFi.


 
 There is definitely some magic sauce in this 5.1 release. Appears to me to be more air around sounds and more detail in those sounds and it aint subtle. It's having a massive effect on pulling detail and increasing soundstage on my lossless old 80's CD rips. I feel like I have a new DAC!!!! I do use a dedicated headphone amp so the improvement may be magnified over using the internal amp. I now really can't wait to see what ifi can to with the pro iDSD. I'm saving.


----------



## fluidz

I have a few questions, I appreciate any advice.

I own a mojo and use it to drive he500 headphones, it sounds great with them but there's a slight dip in sub bass frequencies, would the ifi micro be more suitable and provide the same level of detail? has anybody tried both with he500s?

Also I have a titanium hd sound card in my pc, how can I route the titanium hd to the ifi for cmss3d effects, is this possible?

Would I be able to connect my active speakers to the ifi and bypass the in built amp?

Thanks


----------



## potkettleblack

Can somebody please help me.

I've just received my Ifi idsd micro and for some reason the 3.5mm output isn't working. The 1/4 output is working fine but when I use the 3.5mm output nothing is happening.

Am I missing something?


----------



## Fink24

isn't the 3,5mm port an input?


----------



## potkettleblack

fink24 said:


> isn't the 3,5mm port an input?


Wait am I being an idiot here? Can you not use IEM's in that one or do you have to use them in the 1/4 side with an adapter?

Oh Jesus...


----------



## Fink24

I guess you will have to use 1/4 to 1/8 adapters to use IEM's.


----------



## potkettleblack

fink24 said:


> I guess you will have to use 1/4 to 1/8 adapters to use IEM's.


 I'm just glad it's not broke.

What a panicky Pete I am. 

I'm not gonna edit my first comment so the thread can identify the village idiot.


----------



## iFi audio

fluidz said:


> I have a few questions, I appreciate any advice.
> 
> I own a mojo and use it to drive he500 headphones, it sounds great with them but there's a slight dip in sub bass frequencies, would the ifi micro be more suitable and provide the same level of detail? has anybody tried both with he500s?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 1) For the HE-500 you have to try yourself and see if the micro DSD has enough bass slam for your liking. If you like a lot of bass (and we are no exception) then the iCAN SE with XBAss set to *** is the way to go.
  
 Alternatively, this weekend, you can pop down to the Bristol Show - we are in the Main Hall by the front door. Just bring your headphones and try the whole range out.
  

  
 2) Titanium HD sound card - best you open am STS ticket and give the tech guys an outline of your system. They will try their best to assist - no promises.
  
 3) Yes - run the micro iDSD as pre-amp. You can download the User Manual from here:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/user-manual/
  
 Cheers.


----------



## quodjo105

To the folks that own both the mojo and the idsd. Would you say that the bass from the mojo is equal to the bass of the micro idsd with bass switch on ? Or is it less or more? Any input will be appreciated. I already have the idsd so I know how it sounds like.


----------



## xaznxeclipsex

Hi guys, 
 I got my new micro iDSD, there seems to be a notchy feeling around the 9 o'clock volume knob when I turn it, do you guys have this?


----------



## potkettleblack

xaznxeclipsex said:


> Hi guys,
> I got my new micro iDSD, there seems to be a notchy feeling around the 9 o'clock volume knob when I turn it, do you guys have this?


Got mine today. No issues there.


----------



## xaznxeclipsex

thanks, maybe IFI's poor quality control. time to call up Adorama during lunch


----------



## howdy

Do any of ya use this with a Samsung phone streaming Tidal by chance.


----------



## technobear

xaznxeclipsex said:


> thanks, maybe IFI's poor quality control. time to call up Adorama during lunch




This might be a silly question but you do know it's an on/off switch?


----------



## technobear

fluidz said:


> Also I have a titanium hd sound card in my pc, how can I route the titanium hd to the ifi for cmss3d effects, is this possible?




Is there some reason that you need to use the output from the sound card?

The iDSD is best driven via USB. This bypasses the sound card entirely.

If you do need to get the output from the sound card, I believe the Titanium HD does have an optical S/P-DIF output. It's hidden inside one of the RCA's so you just need an RCA/Toslink adaptor like the one that ships with the iDSD. The latter also has an optical S/P-DIF input hidden inside the co-axial RCA.


----------



## xaznxeclipsex

technobear said:


> This might be a silly question but you do know it's an on/off switch?


 
 I know what the on off switch feels like. 
 its getting RMA'ed.


----------



## fluidz

technobear said:


> I believe the Titanium HD does have an optical S/P-DIF output. It's hidden inside one of the RCA's so you just need an RCA/Toslink adaptor like the one that ships with the iDSD. The latter also has an optical S/P-DIF input hidden inside the co-axial RCA.


  

  
 Yeah, just found out the Ifi has optical input before reading your reply, good to know, thanks!


----------



## rickyleelee

The instruction card should be in the box. refer to that as the vol is also the on and off switch.

or the on/off knb could have been pushed in and it makes contact with the inner part of the faceplate. just gently pull it out slightly and it wont scrape


----------



## DomieMic65

MacMini/El Capitan/8GB RAm/SSD/idsdMicro(5.1)
 I found that the "bop" sound is 99% gone after setting the "hardware buffer" in maximum in JRiver21 settings already having all the other buffers to max. in order to upsample to 2xDSD! 
 Bitstreaming:None
 4XDSD was/is not possible. Actually it is possible with cuts!
  
 I haven't tried yet with my Win10 laptop to see what happens...


----------



## emremusic

Just wanted to share my new set up with you guys...what do you think? Sounds lovely..I love SACD files on Ifi DSD


----------



## howdy

@iFi-Audio
 Do you have plans on making some cables for like Apple, Sony, Samsung and other various USB connections to hook up with your devices?  Im having a hell of a time trying to find another cable to hook my iPod touch up to this. I just bought another Apple CCK cable from another seller so hopefully this will work and I'm trying to find one on a site called Taobao where they make a lot of different cables for many configurations. If anyone else has found a cable that will work please put a link here.


----------



## coastal1

howdy said:


> @iFi-Audio
> Do you have plans on making some cables for like Apple, Sony, Samsung and other various USB connections to hook up with your devices?  Im having a hell of a time trying to find another cable to hook my iPod touch up to this. I just bought another Apple CCK cable from another seller so hopefully this will work and I'm trying to find one on a site called Taobao where they make a lot of different cables for many configurations. If anyone else has found a cable that will work please put a link here.


 
  
 Apple CCK works great for me with the iPhone/Micro, not sure about the iPod touch.  Apple cables usually fail quickly for me even when just used for charging but the CCK has been great. It even went through the wash and still works great.


----------



## howdy

coastal1 said:


> Apple CCK works great for me with the iPhone/Micro, not sure about the iPod touch.  Apple cables usually fail quickly for me even when just used for charging but the CCK has been great. It even went through the wash and still works great.


 
 I bought a Samsung phone for it and will give that a whirl, fingers crossed.


----------



## U2nite

emremusic said:


> Just wanted to share my new set up with you guys...what do you think? Sounds lovely..I love SACD files on Ifi DSD


 
  
 Wonderful setup. I know it sounds great. Enjoy the music


----------



## head02

Hi there, Peter from Holland/netherlands.
 last week i purchased the AKG K712 and the ifi micro iDSD. The ifi playes beautifull when connected to my samsung note 3.
 It also playes good when connecting to my desktop but every now and than i hear a noise. It lasts for 2 seconds (kind of ripple in the whater if you know what i mean) . is this normal?
  
 but the biggest annoyance is that i can not play it with my new ipad. i purchased the lighting to USB cable and also purchased the onkyo HF player for ipad.
 but no matter what i do,  i can't get any sound of my cans using the ipad.
 does anyone has a idea what to do?
  
 best regards to you all
  
 Peter


----------



## coastal1

head02 said:


> Hi there, Peter from Holland/netherlands.
> last week i purchased the AKG K712 and the ifi micro iDSD. The ifi playes beautifull when connected to my samsung note 3.
> It also playes good when connecting to my desktop but every now and than i hear a noise. It lasts for 2 seconds (kind of ripple in the whater if you know what i mean) . is this normal?
> 
> ...




is the USB connector the CCK or regular USB? Is micro on before you connect iPad?


----------



## head02

It is the regular USB (should i buy the CCK then). i paid 15 euro's for the lightning tot USB


----------



## coastal1

head02 said:


> It is the regular USB (should i buy the CCK then). i paid 15 euro's for the lightning tot USB




CCK works for my iPhone and Micro,


----------



## head02

oke thanks for your reply.
 i will check the ifi web page, i recall they mentioned that lightning to USb whas the best option. but as i learned from you there are two options . And i probably choose the wrong one


----------



## Dadracer

It needs to be the CCK as it takes the audio (and video) bypassing the internal DAC. It should work and does so with my iPhone too.


----------



## howdy

I need some help! I bought a Samsung Galaxy Prime phone for a source only for my Micro, I have tried 3 cables and still have no sound coming out of the Micro it is only coming out the phone speaker. Just another bit of information that Im not sure if it is relevant or not but I downloaded 450 songs onto to my mSD card from Tidal, so the songs im trying to play are Tidal songs. The phone is 5.1.1 lollipop the newest Android update. 
  
 Thanks in Advance if someone can help me make this work!


----------



## gr8soundz

howdy said:


> I need some help! I bought a Samsung Galaxy Prime phone for a source only for my Micro, I have tried 3 cables and still have no sound coming out of the Micro it is only coming out the phone speaker. Just another bit of information that Im not sure if it is relevant or not but I downloaded 450 songs onto to my mSD card from Tidal, so the songs im trying to play are Tidal songs. The phone is 5.1.1 lollipop the newest Android update.
> 
> Thanks in Advance if someone can help me make this work!


 
  
 Are you running the Tidal app or UAPP (which now supports Tidal)?
  
 That phone might not put out audio over usb with every app.


----------



## howdy

gr8soundz said:


> Are you running the Tidal app or UAPP (which now supports Tidal)?
> 
> That phone might not put out audio over usb with every app.


 
 just the Tidal app. So I should download UAPP and everything will be the same?


----------



## gr8soundz

howdy said:


> just the Tidal app. So I should download UAPP and everything will be the same?


 
  
 If Tidal alone isn't working you have nothing to lose by trying the UAPP trial:
 http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/uapp-trial
  
 I don't have Tidal but remember seeing the UAPP update last year where it allows you to login and use your Tidal account:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/7350#post_12058002
  
 Not sure if its streaming only vs. local Tidal playback but UAPP is about the only app that will push usb audio on most any recent Android device.


----------



## howdy

I downloaded the 8 dollar UAPP and see no setting for the Tidal and it's not seeing my music. This is just messed up that how Apple needs a special cord and Samsung/Android needs a install to use the USB function. It was not such a pain a decade ago when most things where plug and play.


----------



## dharma

howdy said:


> I downloaded the 8 dollar UAPP and see no setting for the Tidal and it's not seeing my music. This is just messed up that how Apple needs a special cord and Samsung/Android needs a install to use the USB function. It was not such a pain a decade ago when most things where plug and play.


 
 try to find something here
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs
  
 or
 somewhere other sites, like:
 http://apcmag.com/the-ins-and-outs-of-android-usb-audio.htm/
 http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/2015-07-22-12-01-14/usb-audio-driver and forums there
 http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-s/help/tab-s-10-5-lollipop-5-02-usb-dacs-t3078856
 http://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/1393599-enable-usb-audio-any-android-4-0-smartphone-tablet.html
 http://www.androidcentral.com


----------



## Rearwing

u2nite said:


> Wonderful setup. I know it sounds great. Enjoy the music




Your set up looks fantastic, could we have details please.


----------



## howdy

@Gr8soundz and Dharma. 

Thanks for the help I will give that a try today.


----------



## andromeda1954

Is someone using the purifier 2 with the idsd micro ?


----------



## andromeda1954

Does the Purifier need to burn in ?


----------



## andromeda1954

Is someone using the iif Nano Iusb 3.0 power connected to the ifi Idsd ? Does it improve the sound ?


----------



## gr8soundz

andromeda1954 said:


> Is someone using the purifier 2 with the idsd micro ?


 
  
 Still waiting for the type A version (for direct connect to Micro with no adapters) to become available. Don't think the Nano iUSB3 is out yet either
  
 Pre-ordered the iPurifier2 over a month ago but "release" date keeps changing. Was told end of February, then March, now heard rumors of April.


----------



## Johnnystuff

andromeda1954 said:


> Is someone using the purifier 2 with the idsd micro ?


 
  
 Taken from here
  


> I am told by iFi that the “iPurifier” is built-in to the Micro so that certainly helps.


 
  
 I think I'm falling in love with this shiny brick. The only downside I can think of is the actual portability. I mean, you can carry it around but it's nothing like the Oppo HA-2 or all the others that can disappear in your pockets. Which is the general consensus quality-wise of the iDSD Micro towards the HA-2 or other really portable amps?


----------



## howdy

I have both and to me it's no contest that the Micro is superior. The Micro is a lot bigger but that's the price you pay, and there are a lot of great options on the Micro.


----------



## quodjo105

howdy said:


> I have both and to me it's no contest that the Micro is superior. The Micro is a lot bigger but that's the price you pay, and there are a lot of great options on the Micro.


 I see you own the mojo too, do you mind giving me your thoughts about the two?.. Does the mojo have enough bass as compared to the micro?


----------



## canali

johnnystuff said:


> Taken from here
> 
> 
> I think I'm falling in love with this shiny brick. The only downside I can think of is the actual portability. I mean, you can carry it around but it's nothing like the Oppo HA-2 or all the others that can disappear in your pockets. Which is the general consensus quality-wise of the iDSD Micro towards the HA-2 or other really portable amps?


 
  
 if you want a truly small, lightweight dac/amp that can truly disappear in your pocket then
 imo neither the oppo, iFI or chord mojo are it...bulky.
 (not right now anyway...i'm taking _'walk around and can't detect its weight or form in your pocket'_ portability.)
  
  i'd say wait a few months for the upcoming new Audioquest Dragonflys to be released
 ...they're going to be light, small as your thumb, firmware upgradeable
 and now flexble with a host of ios and android devices.
 even a new Red Turbo model ($200) to drive more demanding cans with a better dac.
  
 good article and vimeo presentation on it below by john darko at CES in Jan.
 talks about how the owners approached various chip/software companies ...very interesting.
 betcha' these products (if the reviews are favourable) will be truly portable audio game changers.
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/ces-2016-audioquest-mobilise-dragonfly-black-red/.
  
 or there is the new module dac/amp being developed by Bang and Olufsen
 for their partnership with LG  and the new G5 phone, to be soon released.
 seems that it can also be used as a standalone dac/amp for multiple devices.
 a video as well as article with more details on the dac/amp are below in the link.
 http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/lg-g5-hi-fi-plus-modular-hi-res-dac/
  
_excerpt_
_Modular design aside, the Hi-Fi Plus’ most intriguing features are its 32bit Sabre ES9028C2M DAC _
_(digital to analog converter), and its Sabre9602c amplifier, which will allow the device to playback_
_24bit/192kHz hi-res tracks. A trusted name in hi-fi, ESS’ Sabre components are in a wide array of _
_high-end receivers and other audio components for brands like Pioneer, Yamaha, and others. _
_That kind of quality circuitry is something audiophiles have been looking for in a smartphone for years._
  
 lastly, even the LH geekout v2+ seems  light and small.
  
 all 3 brands have imo products offering minimal bulk, no weighty stacking.
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 .


----------



## canali

i have a question, please.
  
 my micro idsd should arrive soon...might use it as a dac/preamp and hook it up to my
 MAD headphone tube amp.
  
 any particular quality cables one can suggest for such, please, without going $$$ ?


----------



## technobear

canali said:


> any particular quality cables one can suggest for such, please, without going $$$ ?




The iDSD ships with an interconnect cable. Use that one to begin with and see how it sounds. If you then feel you need something better, there are thousands of good ones to choose from. I wouldn't obsess over it too much. It could become a life's mission. 

Oh, and don't do your cable research on this thread. Pretty please.


----------



## technobear

andromeda1954 said:


> Is someone using the purifier 2 with the idsd micro ?




Yes. It's brilliant.

You will need good headphones to really hear what it is doing.

It does need a little burn in but not as much as the iUSB3.0 (which took 300 hours here). 100 hours should do it.

If you want to run two DACs or would benefit from the extra charging ports or want to power an external hard drive then choose the micro iUSB3.0.

If you don't need those extra features then it's a coin toss between the iPurifier 2 or the nano iUSB3.0 (although again it depends on how good the headphones are as only the very best will tell these devices apart).


----------



## Johnnystuff

canali said:


> ....good stuff...


 
 Nice little gadgets there, I'll surely wait for some reviews once they're out. For that price and that size I'll happily throw them some money by the end of the year.
  
 As of now though the quality and durability of the product are 80-90% of the cake for me. The remaining 10-20% is the portability but when I'm around listening music I'm generally working or moving in places where there is people, noise and it's more like a casual listening. What I was wondering was if the HA-2 (or similar) was marginally inferior in some aspect but marginally superior in others I'd probably have chosen the HA-2 for the portability factor but I can't find a single one saying anything like that so it must be a no brainer really.
  
 I'll (try to) wait few weeks anyway, I'm still burning in my iBasso DX80 and my Fostex T50RP (mk2 to be modded) but even if I'm extremely happy with the combo it really looks like something (dx80 or cans or both) needs a serious kick in the arse to really shine. The dx80 has 150 steps for the volume and the cans starts to sound like they should at about 120-130 depending on the kind of music and record. It's true that at 150 they almost hurt so in those 20-30 clicks they can express what they've got, but especially at low volumes and for soft melodies, they really lack substance. These are also the first planar cans I ever tried so it may take a while to get used.
  
 Again, it's still "burning in time" and prior to any mod to the headset so it's too early to say a final word, but I think I'll keep on following this thread with drooling interest


----------



## howdy

quodjo105 said:


> I see you own the mojo too, do you mind giving me your thoughts about the two?.. Does the mojo have enough bass as compared to the micro?


 
 I do not own the Mojo but had it for the tour. I think the iDSD is better than the Mojo to which is why i bought the Micro instead of the Mojo. The Mojo is a great device and sounds great but the Micro is more my flavor. I like the bass of the Micro better as it is more exact and controlled, plus the is a bass boost on the micro and nothing on the Mojo.


----------



## EDM0611

Actually, I really like the Vinyl tastes from iFi/AMR sonic characteristics!
 So now I'm wating for the iDSD Pro ... ^^


----------



## quodjo105

howdy said:


> I do not own the Mojo but had it for the tour. I think the iDSD is better than the Mojo to which is why i bought the Micro instead of the Mojo. The Mojo is a great device and sounds great but the Micro is more my flavor. I like the bass of the Micro better as it is more exact and controlled, plus the is a bass boost on the micro and nothing on the Mojo.


 
 Thanks for that..


----------



## andromeda1954

technobear said:


> Yes. It's brilliant.
> Thanks.
> 
> You will need good headphones to really hear what it is doing.
> ...


----------



## Rearwing

I may be having a senior moment, but am I correct in thinking that the iDSD has an optical input in the spdif? Apologies if I am rambling.


----------



## ClieOS

rearwing said:


> I may be having a senior moment, but am I correct in thinking that the iDSD has an optical input in the spdif? Apologies if I am rambling.


 
  
 Yes, it has.


----------



## Rearwing

Hi CliOS, many thanks, you have made an old man very happy!


----------



## rickyleelee

On another forum - some guy said he was talking to the iFi guys who buy some bags of records at the bristol show. were buying for themselves or for freinds? but they really into vinyl. they should make a phono stage and turbtable


----------



## Koolpep

rickyleelee said:


> On another forum - some guy said he was talking to the iFi guys who buy some bags of records at the bristol show. were buying for themselves or for freinds? but they really into vinyl. they should make a phono stage and turbtable


 

 ifi = AMR Abbingdon Music Research 
 http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/ph_individual.html
  
 Phono Equalizer.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iphono/
  
 Phono Stage for ifi.
  
 There are enough turntables I guess 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rickyleelee

i wish the mrs would let me how vinyl setup for me. this one she wont let me have


----------



## Triodemode

Is anybody here using the iUSB3.0?  I'm wondering if it is compatible with 2.0 USB ports?  And if so, would it be better to still run my micro DSD from the battery (turned on before connecting to USB), or turning the micro on after connecting to the iUSB3.0 whereby using it as the power source?


----------



## technobear

triodemode said:


> Is anybody here using the iUSB3.0? I'm wondering if it is compatible with 2.0 USB ports?




Yes.




triodemode said:


> And if so, would it be better to still run my micro DSD from the battery (turned on before connecting to USB), or turning the micro on after connecting to the iUSB3.0 whereby using it as the power source?




I would run from the iUSB3.0 and save the battery life for portable use.


----------



## Triodemode

technobear said:


> Yes.
> I would run from the iUSB3.0 and save the battery life for portable use.


 

 Thanks for the quick reply technobear.  Two reasons why I would purchase the iUSB3.0.  First of course is to lower the noise floor.  Second, I've noticed that I am only getting about 2 hours use from the battery.  I always run in ECO mode using the line out to an external amp.  I leave the micro on 24/7 as my USB port always outputs power when the computer is off.  Is it possible that the auto charging system in the micro has already caused the battery life to get shorter?


----------



## john57

rickyleelee said:


> On another forum - some guy said he was talking to the iFi guys who buy some bags of records at the bristol show. were buying for themselves or for freinds? but they really into vinyl. they should make a phono stage and turbtable


 
 Don't forget the IFI Retro 50 which also has a great flexible phono pre-amp.


----------



## john57

While I am evaluating the iUSB3 with the long Gemini cable I decided to update the Micro iDSD firmware to 5.1. It was my fourth firmware I have done on my Micro iDSD and it was the most difference regarding sound quality differences.  Music that is heavy with Cymbals is smoother and bass like the bass trombone are crisper and better defined. Recording of music in a Symphony hall has better soundstage that does not sound like it was added by a reverb machine.  This in turn gives a much more natural  presentation of music  in its original environment. Previously I already undated my Retro 50 to 5.1 and it rival my LD VI+ in sound quality.  Very impressed with my Retro.


----------



## gr8soundz

I recently started using the extreme DSD filter and noticed how much smoother, less fatiguing, and more analog the Micro sounds. Mids aren't as forward though and treble loses a touch of air but the sound is still a very detailed and musical.
  
 Current chain is:
 fanless PC > Mercury cable > iDSD Micro > balanced Musical Fidelity amp (powered by a 12V iPower)
  
 Still waiting for the type A iPurifier2. Using the Micro as both DAC and preamp and planned to add an iTube (as a buffer) in between the Micro and amp.
  
 Does anyone know if, with the extreme filter on, adding an iTube will still make a noticeable difference? Especially since the Micro has a bit of Tubestate tech built-in?


----------



## EDM0611

gr8soundz said:


> I recently started using the extreme DSD filter and noticed how much smoother, less fatiguing, and more analog the Micro sounds. Mids aren't as forward though and treble loses a touch of air but the sound is still a very detailed and musical.
> 
> Current chain is:
> fanless PC > Mercury cable > iDSD Micro > balanced Musical Fidelity amp (powered by a 12V iPower)
> ...


 
 I think you should add a power regenerator to your chain first (uptone or iUsbPower if you already ordered iP2) as I've already done. The improvement is easy to find out when you turn volumn up


----------



## Dadracer

Yes that would be the way to go. Either iUSB with iP2 or the new nano iUSB3 as these perform almost exactly the same according to the gurus at ifi Audio. Either way it will improve the signal quality and remove all the garbage.


----------



## gr8soundz

I already mentioned the IP2 I'll be adding once its available.
  
 Why mention that and the iUSB3 when I'm talking about the Micro's extreme filter (along with the iTube if anyone knows)?
  
 I'd ask in the iTube thread as well but not much activity there and most wouldn't know about the Micro's filters.
  
 Perhaps @iFi audio could chime in.....


----------



## john57

gr8soundz said:


> I recently started using the extreme DSD filter and noticed how much smoother, less fatiguing, and more analog the Micro sounds. Mids aren't as forward though and treble loses a touch of air but the sound is still a very detailed and musical.
> 
> Current chain is:
> fanless PC > Mercury cable > iDSD Micro > balanced Musical Fidelity amp (powered by a 12V iPower)
> ...


 
 I would say that since you heard quite a bit difference using the extreme filter it is more likely that you will heard a difference with the  iTube specially with with the Soundstage in music. I own four tube amps at home. I would say that the iCAN and the coming iCAN pro and iDSD pro will be using the same GE5670 tubes as I recall.


----------



## gr8soundz

john57 said:


> I would say that since you heard quite a bit difference using the extreme filter it is more likely that you will heard a difference with the  iTube specially with with the Soundstage in music. I own four tube amps at home. I would say that the iCAN and the coming iCAN pro and iDSD pro will be using the same GE5670 tubes as I recall.


 
  
 Thanks. Right, I assumed they would have even higher grade tubes but the Pro models will have 2 of the 5670 used in the iTube.


----------



## joshnor713

Sharing my review 
  
 http://www.androidguys.com/2016/03/03/ifi-micro-idsd-mobile-dac-review-go-big-or-go-home/
  
 Fantastic DAC. Gonna be hard to beat, for me.


----------



## iamoneagain

Has anyone had any issues with the latest firmware 5.1 with regards to popping/clicking? 

I just receive a ifi micro idsd last week and first thing I did was install latest firmware. Using Roon/HQPlayer in DSD mode I would get loud pops whenever I stopped or switched tracks. I finally decided to try the previous firmware 5.0a and that fixed the problem. However, there is a sound difference between the two and would also think latest should not lose the fix of previous build. 

Other than this, I'm really loving this amp. Old amp needs repairs so thought I'd try cheaper replacement and went with the Explorer2 and soon realized it was under powered. The micro idsd is huge improvement over Explorer2. No comparison. And with umsampling all my tracks sound as good as the few MQA tracks I heard. But to be fair, listening to MQA with Explorer2 not best example of how it would really sound with better equipment.


----------



## gr8soundz

joshnor713 said:


> Sharing my review
> 
> http://www.androidguys.com/2016/03/03/ifi-micro-idsd-mobile-dac-review-go-big-or-go-home/
> 
> Fantastic DAC. Gonna be hard to beat, for me.


 
  
 Nice review. Couldn't agree more with your rating.


----------



## Johnnystuff

Looking for someone to compare this to the iBasso P5 Falcon. Would pay in e-hugs!


----------



## Haris Javed

joshnor713 said:


> Sharing my review
> 
> http://www.androidguys.com/2016/03/03/ifi-micro-idsd-mobile-dac-review-go-big-or-go-home/
> 
> Fantastic DAC. Gonna be hard to beat, for me.


 
 awesome review - this thing is a very nice


----------



## john57

johnnystuff said:


> Looking for someone to compare this to the iBasso P5 Falcon. Would pay in e-hugs!


 
 AS I understand it, the iBasso P5 Falcon is a amp only device and with the iDSD you are getting  a DAC and amp.


----------



## Johnnystuff

john57 said:


> AS I understand it, the iBasso P5 Falcon is a amp only device and with the iDSD you are getting  a DAC and amp.


 
 Yep, I was speaking about the sound presentaion, wideness, clarity, timbre and all those things. The ibasso is no dac but it's more portable being at the same time "more desktop" (it has a separate psu) and it's moddable or tweakable. They're both receiving only amazing reviews so it's hard to understand in which way they can compete and which not (the dac is on the "not" clearly)


----------



## Dynaudio lvr

I used to use the meridian explorer. Love the sound but very little power to exploit my 600 ohm T1's. 

I probably should have gotten the Ican and strapped the meridian to it. Ill never know what that would sound like...

I did get the idsd micro and it's great with lots of power. 
The explorer has wonderful treble characteristics and (to my ears) the idsd doesnt. I love the mids and lows though. 

What im asking is about powering the unit on while connected to usb...if this will produce a slightly warmer sound due to not running off the battery. I think I read this somewhere. i've tried to determine by myslelf but I think the sneaky placebo effect is coloring my opinion. 

Do any of you notice a difference in sound between battery power or usb? 
My tablet has low power compared to my laptop and that I why im wondering. I use battery power when i use otg cable. ( my explorer wouldnt give hardly any sound from the tablet). The idsd does but id like to use the battery for power...but not if it does give a harsher, less warm sound


----------



## gr8soundz

dynaudio lvr said:


> I used to use the meridian explorer. Love the sound but very little power to exploit my 600 ohm T1's.
> 
> I probably should have gotten the Ican and strapped the meridian to it. Ill never know what that would sound like...
> 
> ...


 
  
 It will sound better running on cleaner battery power but the difference is not night and day. Easy enough to test: just turn the Micro on before connecting the usb cable for battery power or turn it on after connecting the cable for usb power (assuming the device can power usb devices; think the micro needs at least 500-700mA).
  
 I've also found that the Micro can sound like many different dacs in one. Just changing the filter and power settings may yield more of the sound you're looking for. I alternate between min phase and bitperfect filters. Some have even said switching to turbo power with iem match on may work better for certain headphones.
  
 Once you start experimenting, it makes you think how limited most other dacs are. If you don't like their sound, you're stuck with that. Not so with the Micro.


----------



## howdy

Before I was having issues with getting my CCK working, well I bought another new one from a different supplier and whala it works perfectly.


----------



## iFi audio

iamoneagain said:


> Has anyone had any issues with the latest firmware 5.1 with regards to popping/clicking?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Revert back to the previous firmware - certain setups do this. So go version 5.0 in the meantime. R&D are working on it!
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

howdy said:


> Before I was having issues with getting my CCK working, well I bought another new one from a different supplier and whala it works perfectly.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We recommend to ONLY purchase the official Apple CCK/Lightning-to-USB.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## rickyleelee

agree. try the ican se if you want amp vs amp. no sense to me to compare these two.


----------



## rickyleelee

Trust your own ears? Why rely on other people? Only if you can't try where you live and you have it there to test


----------



## iamoneagain

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Revert back to the previous firmware - certain setups do this. So go version 5.0 in the meantime. R&D are working on it!
> 
> Cheers.


 

 Thanks for confirmation.  Look forward to next firmware release.


----------



## howdy

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We recommend to ONLY purchase the official Apple CCK/Lightning-to-USB.
> 
> Cheers.



 


Thanks for the input!

On a side note, I have a lot of admiration for the amount of customer focus and interactions your company shows, keep up the awesome work!!


----------



## Dynaudio lvr

A quick question please. 

Im thinking of buying the ican micro to go with my idsd micro. I hear the sound is livelier and warmer, etc. 

I have the beyer T1 headphones and i wonder can I use the idsd in preamp mode to output more power the the ican if I find I dont have enough power off the ican?
Does it have to be in direct mode to output to a headphone amp or will preamp mode ruin the sound?

Thanks for any opinions


----------



## gr8soundz

dynaudio lvr said:


> A quick question please.
> 
> Im thinking of buying the ican micro to go with my idsd micro. I hear the sound is livelier and warmer, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can use the iDSD in preamp mode to push up to +9dB. I do this on mine to get more volume on an external amp and haven't noticed any degradation.
  
 But you may be better off getting the iCan SE. It has the same power output (max 4W) as the iDSD Micro plus all the amp improvements. That way you can use direct mode out on the iDSD and only have to worry about adjusting one volume knob.


----------



## technobear

dynaudio lvr said:


> A quick question please.
> 
> Im thinking of buying the ican micro to go with my idsd micro. I hear the sound is livelier and warmer, etc.
> 
> ...




The micro iDSD provides 2V in Direct mode. This is more than enough to drive the micro iCAN to its maximum power output. There is no advantage to using the iDSD as a pre-amp.

The micro iCAN has selectable gain levels. The 0dB setting is sufficient for a micro iDSD in Direct mode. The +12dB and +24dB settings are there if you should ever wish to use a low output source (like an old school tuner or cassette deck).

The micro iCAN has more power than you will ever need for a T1 (unless you are determined to destroy your hearing in a short time).


----------



## Dadracer

Just out of interest I wanted to ask if anyone has used their micro iDSD with any of the Auralic Aries streaming bridge/node products? I have tried one on a dealer set up streaming Tidal HiFi and it worked very well, so I am thinking about the Aries Mini which would mean I could stream Tidal and not use my over burdened laptop which can only be good for the sound quality I think.
  
 Anyhow just a thought.


----------



## Dynaudio lvr

technobear said:


> The micro iDSD provides 2V in Direct mode. This is more than enough to drive the micro iCAN to its maximum power output. There is no advantage to using the iDSD as a pre-amp.
> 
> The micro iCAN has selectable gain levels. The 0dB setting is sufficient for a micro iDSD in Direct mode. The +12dB and +24dB settings are there if you should ever wish to use a low output source (like an old school tuner or cassette deck).
> 
> The micro iCAN has more power than you will ever need for a T1 (unless you are determined to destroy your hearing in a short time).




My concern comes from the 400mw @32 ohm spec on the ican. Probably not much wattage at 600ohm compared to the power of the idsd. 
The special edition ican sounds great but I live in Canada and it seems hard to find. 
The T1's are great but im getting annoyed by them lately. Im starting to think they arent meant to be ones only headphone. Seinheiser 650 gets great reviews on here are likely easier to drive. 
Plugging a T1 directly into a phone or tablet typically gets whisper level volume. 
Also, I think I may be a basshead after all..a basshead who also loves wide open soundstages and Fleetwood Mac "the chain" style bass signatures.


----------



## ClieOS

dynaudio lvr said:


> My concern comes from the 400mw @32 ohm spec on the ican. Probably not much wattage at 600ohm compared to the power of the idsd.
> The special edition ican sounds great but I live in Canada and it seems hard to find.
> The T1's are great but im getting annoyed by them lately. Im starting to think they arent meant to be ones only headphone. Seinheiser 650 gets great reviews on here are likely easier to drive.
> Plugging a T1 directly into a phone or tablet typically gets whisper level volume.
> Also, I think I may be a basshead after all..a basshead who also loves wide open soundstages and Fleetwood Mac "the chain" style bass signatures.


 
  
 If you use micro iDSD as pre-amp into micro iCAN, most likely you will end up clipping the micro iCAN and produce distortion instead of more power. I'll advise you get in touch the Canadian iFi distributor and see if they are bringing in the micro iCAN SE or not.


----------



## Dadracer

The iCAN SE has the same power as the iDSD so more than the original iCAN and more than enough for the T1s if you decide to keep them. Otherwise some HD800 will sound fantastic with this amp and you should be able to get those at a great price now as the 800S has just become available.


----------



## technobear

dynaudio lvr said:


> My concern comes from the 400mw @32 ohm spec on the ican. Probably not much wattage at 600ohm compared to the power of the idsd.




The micro iCAN will put out 40mW into a T1.









dynaudio lvr said:


> Also, I think I may be a basshead after all..a basshead who also loves wide open soundstages and Fleetwood Mac "the chain" style bass signatures.




Then you definitely need a micro iCAN. The T1 can deliver huge quantities of bass when level 3 XBASS is engaged.

If you buy a basshead headphone then all your music will have massive bass even when it shouldn't.


----------



## Dynaudio lvr

Wow





technobear said:


> The micro iCAN will put out 40mW into a T1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


!

Wow! Ive been trying to learn what mw into a given impedance headphone would produce volume-wise....and you just nailed it. 

I guess 40mw is a pretty good decibal output. 

I do only want bass when it's supposed to be there. But when it is...I want to feel it. Not on my ears ( beats). But in my brain, lol

Anyway, thank you guys for the responses and if I cant find the SE then ill be happy im sure with the normal ican.


----------



## coastal1

gr8soundz said:


> You can use the iDSD in preamp mode to push up to +9dB. I do this on mine to get more volume on an external amp and haven't noticed any degradation.
> 
> But you may be better off getting the iCan SE. It has the same power output (max 4W) as the iDSD Micro plus all the amp improvements. That way you can use direct mode out on the iDSD and only have to worry about adjusting one volume knob.




I guess it's ok to use "Preamp" mode when using the Micro as DAC with a separate HP amp ? I don't need the extra volume, but would like to enable the bass boost...I thought that preamp mode might only be for using the Micro w/ speaker setup


----------



## gr8soundz

coastal1 said:


> I guess it's ok to use "Preamp" mode when using the Micro as DAC with a separate HP amp ? I don't need the extra volume, but would like to enable the bass boost...I thought that preamp mode might only be for using the Micro w/ speaker setup


 
  
 I have a balanced amp but it doesn't put out as much power as the Micro (too bad iFi doesn't make a Micro amp with balanced output).
  
 Tried direct mode first but not enough power to drive my Fostex mk3s (single end only). So I switched to preamp mode and usually keep the Micro's volume around the 2 or 3 o'clock position.
  
 True, the benefit of using it as a preamp means the x-bass still works (not so in direct mode; but 3d is for speakers in preamp).


----------



## Dadracer

gr8soundz said:


> coastal1 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it's ok to use "Preamp" mode when using the Micro as DAC with a separate HP amp ? I don't need the extra volume, but would like to enable the bass boost...I thought that preamp mode might only be for using the Micro w/ speaker setup
> ...



Actually ifi do have a balanced amp the new iCAN Pro which is available next month


----------



## gr8soundz

dadracer said:


> Actually ifi do have a balanced amp the new iCAN Pro which is available next month




The Pro is not part of the Micro series I quoted.

Micros range in price from $200 to 500. iCan Pro will be over $1500, dac not included. Cheaper to add my own balanced amp and tube buffer.


----------



## Dadracer

gr8soundz said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > Actually ifi do have a balanced amp the new iCAN Pro which is available next month
> ...


 
 Fair enough, but I think you'll find it difficult to get a good quality balanced amp for Micro money. Indeed I suspect that if it could be done well for that budget then ifi would have already done it.


----------



## gr8soundz

dadracer said:


> Fair enough, but I think you'll find it difficult to get a good quality balanced amp for Micro money. Indeed I suspect that if it could be done well for that budget then ifi would have already done it.


 
  
 I just got a balanced amp on clearance for less than $200 (not TOTL but fully balanced and better amp specs than the idsd in many areas). Even if I add iFi's own iTube as a buffer the combo is still less than a third of the Pro's price.


----------



## Dadracer

gr8soundz said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > Fair enough, but I think you'll find it difficult to get a good quality balanced amp for Micro money. Indeed I suspect that if it could be done well for that budget then ifi would have already done it.
> ...


 
 Ok already, I am not suggesting you are incapable of finding a balanced amp but I am suggesting that a poor balanced amp does not perform better than a good quality SE amp regardless of the on paper specs. And to reiterate a good quality balanced amp is not a cheap thing to produce. If you have found a good one and a cheap one then well done to you (sincerely). Having found your excellent balanced amp for a low price, then I am not certain what the iTube will bring you.   
  
 I am also not suggesting you have to buy an iCAN Pro.


----------



## Johnnystuff

Would someone be so awesome to help me out in all the mess of i-products by iFi? I've seen: iUSB, iTUBE, iCAN, iCAN-SE, iDAC, iDAC2 and iDSD, most of which have a Nano and Micro versions :What:???Why so many products and how to use them properly or to understand which one fits my real needs (and wallet)?


----------



## howdy

johnnystuff said:


> Would someone be so awesome to help me out in all the mess of i-products by iFi? I've seen: iUSB, iTUBE, iCAN, iCAN-SE, iDAC, iDAC2 and iDSD, most of which have a Nano and Micro versions :What:???Why so many products and how to use them properly or to understand which one fits my real needs (and wallet)?



 

Well what are your needs and we will help you figure out what you need, i.e. portable, desktop..,. etc.


----------



## Johnnystuff

Amp & dac? 80% use at home but being portable surely is a big plus. Driving from IEMs to standard 50 ohms cans but planning it future proof, and in my future I'm seeing at least a pair of Beyer 770 @250ohm so nothing really insane to drive but still.
  
 In particular I don't get the real difference between the iDAC and iDSD, but even the iCAN if one considers the amp only, is it so much different/worse than the iDSD in SQ? And what is the tradeoff for all the models with their nano versions?


----------



## howdy

johnnystuff said:


> Amp & dac? 80% use at home but being portable surely is a big plus. Driving from IEMs to standard 50 ohms cans but planning it future proof, and in my future I'm seeing at least a pair of Beyer 770 @250ohm so nothing really insane to drive but still.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Well I cannot answer all your questions but from what I’m gathering so far the iDSD Micro would be a great fit for you and this is what I have. There are a lot of distributors all around who may be able to loan you whatever you narrow your search down to. The iDSD Micro is able to drive sensitive IEMs all the way up to the power hungry headphones that you foresee getting. There is a bass boost as well as 3D effect. Three different gain modes, so there are various combinations and you get to play with all to find the perfect mix, there is a table to help guide you to a more suitable combo depending on the "cans" you are using.

The iDSD can be had for $500 which is a respectable amount and definitely worth every penny. They compare this to all the big shooters out there and it triumphs over most. 
I hope this help a little, there are some very knowledgeable peeps on this thread who will help in your quest.


----------



## Johnnystuff

I'm asking here in fact because I know that the iDSD Micro is basically the admiral and can doo all and better, but it's quite expensive or at least the difference towards an iDAC is pretty large, nearly 200€ buying in EU at least. And there is also the iDSD Nano which must have something less but who knows what? Costs less than the half of the Micro (240€ vs 580€).
  
 What I'm trying to say is that I don't really get the need of this differentiation. It's as if Apple made 6 iPhones, one without camera, another without phone, another without wifi, another without market, another without battery and another with everything. WTHeck??


----------



## john57

What is the difference between the Micro iDSD and the Nano iDSD? Well the Micro has two DAC's chips and a much more powerful headphone amp. If you using planner headphones with it, the micro would be a better choice. If you just using  IEM's the Nano iDSD may be a good choice. If you do not need portable battery power and no headphone amp, the IDAC2 can be a better choice for a home system with amps and speakers that already have provision for headphones. My way of looking at this is to focus on what features are important and go from there.


----------



## dharma

additional letters/numbers (SE and 2) mark newer and more advanced/better 'second/special edition/version'


----------



## canali

johnnystuff said:


> Would someone be so awesome to help me out in all the mess of i-products by iFi? I've seen: iUSB, iTUBE, iCAN, iCAN-SE, iDAC, iDAC2 and iDSD, most of which have a Nano and Micro versions :What:???Why so many products and how to use them properly or to understand which one fits my real needs (and wallet)?


 
 i agree...I also wish iFi could have made this decision making process much simpler...
 you know, have some configurations on their website on how to best utilize their
 components/cables would probably help with more sales, too.
 when i first came across i had no clear idea just what the micro iDSD was...then there was the nano edition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (hint hint, iFi)...
 i had to figure it out on my own, as well...at first it was bewildering, esp if just getting into
 audio again (as i was)....however, the helpful people on this thread are reassuring.


----------



## dharma

don't know, are all aware, that audiophile music label SOUND LIAISON have something special, related to iFi Audio:
  
iDAC2 + ‘Special iFi Music Sampler’ album by Sound Liaison a special sample album titled ‘iFi micro-iDAC2 Music Sampler’ for all music lovers alike. You can find three specially selected tracks in three formats; PCM, FLAC and DSD. (http://soundliaison.com/all-categories/185-ifi-micro-idac2-music-sampler)
  
 more here
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-special-ifi-music-sampler-dsd-album-by-sound-liaison/


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> I have a balanced amp but it doesn't put out as much power as the Micro (too bad iFi doesn't make a Micro amp with balanced output).


 
  
 Hi,
  
 To have 'Balanced' in itself is not very meaningful. Instead of two channels of amplification in normal configurations - balanced needs four. So that is double the budget for amplification. So for example, getting a 4-Channel Volume control with even acceptable tracking is not just double the money, but a lot more.
  
 So in all likelihod, if you get a cheap balanced Amp you are getting likely an amp that is much worse in terms of performance than an equally cheap unbalanced/single-ended amp.
  
  
_*But can balanced Amplifiers still offer something?*_
 Well first, at least in principle, a balanced Amp can output double the voltage (6dB more SPL, 4 X the power) than a single ended amp on the power-supply.
 Or we can double the power supply Voltage (as we did for iDSD micro in turbo mode and the new iCAN SE) and also get the same result of double the voltage and four times the power (of course, the iDSD Pro doubles output voltage again for balanced connections). So again, balanced may or may not offer anything worthwhile.
  
_*Connections mean a lot*_
 The other point in favor of balanced is the fact that all unbalanced headphone connections have a shared ground connection. This is an issue, but is worst with 3.5mm Jacks and low impedance headphones, while for high impedance headphones with 6.3mm plugs (not adapters from 3.5mm to 6.3mm!) that have balanced wiring all the way to the plug, the difference benefit of going balanced in itself is minimal.
  
 So where balanced connections make some sense (if any) are IEM's and similar low impedance headphones, with 3,5mm connectors and low impedance or low efficiency indoor headphones that need the extra Voltage. Sadly there is nothing approaching a standard for portable use, while for desktop we have dual XLR or 4-Pin XLR reasonably well established.
  
 And too many headphones simply lack provisions for easily replaceable cable looms, meaning that the actual market for a balanced Amp is very small. Worse, if someone gets such a balanced Amp and uses the wrong kind of adapter (or in case of 3.5mm TRRS balanced connections plugs in the wrong headphone) damage may occur.
  
 Given all of this it is difficult to justify making a balanced Amp, except for TOTL Desktop use, as it may create more problems for a manufacturer than it solves for the customer while costing the customer more for most often poorer performance than a equivalent unbalanced Amp. This is not our style.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> To have 'Balanced' in itself is not very meaningful. Instead of two channels of amplification in normal configurations - balanced needs four. So that is double the budget for amplification. So for example, getting a 4-Channel Volume control with even acceptable tracking is not just double the money, but a lot more.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can see the point about the rising costs to implement balanced circuitry.
  
 My point of view is that the modern headphone amps have already come so powerful and so clean nowadays that it's difficult to make yet another single ended headphone amp that can objectively defeat another (in normal daily applications). 
  
 In the end, no matter whether we have a -127dB on the DAC output, the bottleneck ends up being the cable crosstalk which can be as bad as -60dB.
  
  
 Particularly for those high current IEMs with feeble thin cable that shares the ground path, having 4 pin connection to encourage people to adopt separate ground line is a good step forward.
  
 Even on identical four core IEM cable, I found on my AK240 that the balanced connection can further reduce the crosstalk by 10-20dB  over unbalanced when loaded. Even something pseudo-balanced like what Onkyo DP-X1 does, (which clamps the cable ground actively to 0V) really makes a big sonic improvement for me.
  
 Also, I'm very happy with the micro iDSD (I bought a micro iDAC2 for home use recently too), so I don't mind paying a bit more for something even better (and yet portable...). I'm sure many people feel the same way too.


----------



## iFi audio

sandalaudio said:


> I can see the point about the rising costs to implement balanced circuitry.
> 
> My point of view is that the modern headphone amps have already come so powerful and so clean nowadays that it's difficult to make yet another single ended headphone amp that can objectively defeat another (in normal daily applications).
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 "In the end, no matter whether we have a -127dB on the DAC output, the bottleneck ends up being the cable crosstalk which can be as bad as -60dB."
  
 Indeed, yet many will observe that vinyl often provides a more convincing soundstage than CD/Digital Audio and if you even get 30dB channel in midrange on vinyl you are way ahead of the crowd (20dB is more common). So it may seem that "channel separation" in itself is overrated.
  
  
 "Particularly for those high current IEMs with feeble thin cable that shares the ground path, having 4 pin connection to encourage people to adopt separate ground line is a good step forward."
  
 This is the fundamental wiring on the headphones. At this point only one IEM (as far as we are aware) is offered ex. factory with a balanced connectors, be it standard or option.
  
 So anyone wanting balanced in portable headphones needs 3rd party re-wiring and the absence of any credible standard (we counted at last stop seven different balanced connections aimed at portable markets - plus the two XLR options for a total of at least 9 options) means neither cable systems nor amplifiers are readily interchangeable.
  
 Of course, headphone makers will not introduce balanced headphones if there are no balanced amps out there and especially not if there seven competing connection alternatives.
  
 And without a substantial installed base of balanced headphones out there is no  sensible option to offer a portable "balanced" design with any sales potential.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah. You're right.
  
 I think the main issue is the bunch of random connector standards that confuses everyone. Just when I thought the things are settling down to AK style 4 pin 2.5mm, Cowon just released a new Plenue DAP with 4 pin 3.5mm balanced, and there are still some fans of the old square ALO style connectors. I don't think it helps anyone except the fancy silver plated conversion cable makers.
  
 Despite crosstalk being a non-issue for speaker in a room context, I would still prefer a lack of strange cable induced crosstalk for headphone listening, with a bit of fun added in a controlled manner by the iFi's crossfeed function as needed.


----------



## gr8soundz

@iFi audio: I appreciate the extra insight and I agree that balanced may not mean much if improperly implemented.
  
 What I have is a small Musical Fidelity amp that can operate in a dual-mono configuration. I am nearing the point of diminishing returns for my particular setup but cannot ignore (by my estimate) a potential 10% additional improvement by adding a decent balanced amp (would not be an issue could I afford the upcoming Pro series stuff).
  
 I remember reading posts about the original iCan saying it was a better amp than that of the iDSD despite having much less output power. So specs aren't everything but I trust my own ears and a dual configuration (again, when properly done) can make a notable difference. If not, why was the iDSD Micro designed with dual dac chips?
  
 I've spent much of the past year (carefully) confirming proper pinouts and getting the correct balanced cables for my headphones. @sandalaudio: I too wish they were more standardized so I didn't have to buy multiple custom cables and custom adapters for TRRS (2.5 and 3.5mm), XLR, and dual 3.5mm connections; don't have any ALO/RSA/Kobiconn adapters yet.
  
 But all my headphones (including the balanced capable ones) are low impedance (about 70 ohms or less). Everything is intentionally portable or transportable so I don't need a ton of power to drive everything but still want to maximize my chain's potential.
  
 For a time, I preferred listening to my Pono player instead of my iDSD Micro because I felt the Pono's balanced mode added what I couldn't get from the Micro. Now I'm simply adding some small pieces to my desktop to expand beyond what a balanced DAP can offer.


----------



## dharma

from one _post_ in other serious thread
 [...] I think it's interesting that Joe, the designer of the Abyss, has been referenced as saying the iFI iDSD Micro is a fantastic match with the Abyss.[...]


----------



## potkettleblack

dharma said:


> from one _post_ in other serious thread
> [...] I think it's interesting that Joe, the designer of the Abyss, has been referenced as saying the iFI iDSD Micro is a fantastic match with the Abyss.[...]


Yup. I bought the iFI iDSD (suggested by Joe) specifically to audition the AB-1266. I intended to keep it regardless as it was a significant upgrade over my MacBook/o2 combination, but after I heard it with the 1266 It practically made me buy it on the spot. I didn't think I'd be able to afford an amp that could drive and have good synergy with them. It also paired brilliantly with the HD800S and Audeze LCD X. 

Apparently it's (idsd) lifespan is 3-4 years. If the servicing cost is reasonable; this is one of the best pieces of kit I've heard and bought. Genuinely smitten.


----------



## Dadracer

Why is the lifespan only 3-4 years?


----------



## potkettleblack

dadracer said:


> Why is the lifespan only 3-4 years?


A combination of the battery and Sod's law I think.


----------



## dharma

potkettleblack said:


> Yup. I bought the iFI iDSD (suggested by Joe) specifically to audition the AB-1266. I intended to keep it regardless as it was a significant upgrade over my MacBook/o2 combination, but after I heard it with the 1266 It practically made me buy it on the spot. I didn't think I'd be able to afford an amp that could drive and have good synergy with them. It also paired brilliantly with the HD800S and Audeze LCD X.
> 
> Apparently it's (idsd) lifespan is 3-4 years. If the servicing cost is reasonable; this is one of the best pieces of kit I've heard and bought. Genuinely smitten.


 
  
 Congrats, all Your hp-s are worth to listen with good 'stuff'.
 Lifespan here is about 'battery lifespan'? Sure every 'rechargeable battery' has limited number of recharging cycles... if possible, then better to feed iDSD from outer source (computer or appropriate USB-charger). But I think, in future there are other 'workaround' solutions too, when iDSD battery is 'gone'.


----------



## Dadracer

I had a feeling that might be what you were meaning. I don't really use my iDSD on battery much so do via an iUSB power and iPurifier which work very nicely.


----------



## dharma

dadracer said:


> I had a feeling that might be what you were meaning. I don't really use my iDSD on battery much so do via an iUSB power and iPurifier which work very nicely.


 
  
 That's better for battery, sure!


----------



## gr8soundz

dadracer said:


> I had a feeling that might be what you were meaning. I don't really use my iDSD on battery much so do via an iUSB power and iPurifier which work very nicely.


 
  
 Is yours an iPurifier2?


----------



## Dadracer

Yes indeed.


----------



## howdy

So help me out, would one put the iPurifier2 into the OTG and then plug the CCK into that for improved sound or would it do nothing for a iDSD Micro?


----------



## LoryWiv

sandalaudio said:


> Particularly for those high current IEMs with feeble thin cable that shares the ground path, having 4 pin connection to encourage people to adopt separate ground line is a good step forward.
> 
> Even on identical four core IEM cable, I found on my AK240 that the balanced connection can further reduce the crosstalk by 10-20dB  over unbalanced when loaded. *Even something pseudo-balanced like what Onkyo DP-X1 does, (which clamps the cable ground actively to 0V) really makes a big sonic improvement for me.*
> *--------------------------------------------*
> ...


----------



## iFi audio

howdy said:


> So help me out, would one put the iPurifier2 into the OTG and then plug the CCK into that for improved sound or would it do nothing for a iDSD Micro?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 iPurifier1 tech (REbalance) is in the micro iDSD.
  
 iPurifier2 tech (REbalance/REclock/REgenerate) is not in the micro iDSD.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

potkettleblack said:


> Yup. I bought the iFI iDSD (suggested by Joe) specifically to audition the AB-1266. I intended to keep it regardless as it was a significant upgrade over my MacBook/o2 combination, but after I heard it with the 1266 It practically made me buy it on the spot. I didn't think I'd be able to afford an amp that could drive and have good synergy with them. It also paired brilliantly with the HD800S and Audeze LCD X.
> 
> Apparently it's (idsd) lifespan is 3-4 years. If the servicing cost is reasonable; this is one of the best pieces of kit I've heard and bought. Genuinely smitten.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes, estimated lifespan for the battery - so when the time comes, we just replace the battery (it is fiddly so best have it serviced by a tech).
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> @iFi audio: I appreciate the extra insight and I agree that balanced may not mean much if improperly implemented.
> 
> What I have is a small Musical Fidelity amp that can operate in a dual-mono configuration. I am nearing the point of diminishing returns for my particular setup but cannot ignore (by my estimate) a potential 10% additional improvement by adding a decent balanced amp (would not be an issue could I afford the upcoming Pro series stuff).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Try using a balanced (whatever your connector is) to 6.3mm adapter where a good quality 6.3mm Plug is used, or perhaps even better have one wiring harness terminated directly in 6.3mm, with channels joining grounds only at the plug.
  
 We are rather fond of the Fostex T-50 Headphones, which are lowish impedance at 50 Ohm, but use a detachable 3.5mm cable with a common ground.
  
 Simply re-wiring this balanced with the cables joining at the plug gives a HUGE improvement. In our testing the differences between running our modified _TL-50RP's_ balanced (4-pin XLR) or with an adapter to a good 6.3mm plug and trying both modes on the iCAN Pro (making sure to keep voltages at the headphone the same) showed very minor differences.
  
 On the other hand, replacing the XLR -> 6.3mm adapter with a 3.5mm one and then using a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter (same as ships with the iDSD micro) and testing on the iCAN micro SE with either direct XLR->6.3mm Adapter or XLR->3.5mm->6.3mm shows significant differences (if you must know, yes, worse).
  
 We can talk about the TH500RP but that is for another day.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## sandalaudio

lorywiv said:


> your comment above intrigued me as I have been considering the DP-X1 or possibly the upcoming Luxury and Precision L3 to assess whther I can appreciate a true advantage with my 64 Audio A6 running balanced. I've ordered a replacement cable from Peterk terminated with 2.5 mm TRRS. Is there a reason why the DP-X1 you've described as "psuedo-balanced" may not be my best option, or is that just Onkyo's design / implementation decision but not necessarily diminishing the likelihood of a sonic advantage?


 
  
 Hi. Don't worry. DP-X1 is not bad.
 If you look at the product website, you can see that it can be set up to operate in two different modes.
  
 Firstly as the normal balanced (BTL) operation mode that you would expect, and secondly as what they call the "ACG" Active Control Ground mode.
 This latter ACG mode was what I was referring to as the Pseudo-balanced, where it sets the negative side actively to 0V.
  
 They simply ask the user to decide on which mode they prefer sonically, and also becaue ACG mode may save a bit of battery power by not needing to drive as hard as the normal balanced mode.
  
 Sorry it's off topic from the iFi micro iDSD. If you ask on the DP-X1 thread, I'm sure you will get a lot of dividing opinions about which mode sounds better. In the end it's pretty subjective.


----------



## sandalaudio

gr8soundz said:


> @sandalaudio: I too wish they were more standardized so I didn't have to buy multiple custom cables and custom adapters for TRRS (2.5 and 3.5mm), XLR, and dual 3.5mm connections; don't have any ALO/RSA/Kobiconn adapters yet.
> 
> But all my headphones (including the balanced capable ones) are low impedance (about 70 ohms or less). Everything is intentionally portable or transportable so I don't need a ton of power to drive everything but still want to maximize my chain's potential.
> 
> For a time, I preferred listening to my Pono player instead of my iDSD Micro because I felt the Pono's balanced mode added what I couldn't get from the Micro. Now I'm simply adding some small pieces to my desktop to expand beyond what a balanced DAP can offer.


 
  
 As iFi guys are suggesting, whether it's balanced or not is one thing, but the cable makes a bigger difference.
  
 In many cases the biggest source of sonic improvement (or difference) between earphone cables is due to the degree of crosstalk. It's one thing to accept crosstalk being inherent and acceptable, but it's another problem if a bunch of cable makers produce fancy cables with tons of crosstalk and claim that it has more focus and imaging because of special magical gemstone powers.
  
 Just as a food for thought, I've measured the crosstalk difference on stock IE80 cable, a third party (good) cable, and the same third party cable with 2.5mm balanced terminal, playing a reference signal on AK240. Yes the balanced connection makes a difference, but the majority of the difference comes from the cable having less crosstalk.
  
 With the stock IE80 cable, even if you play the music just on the right side channel, you can hear the same music playing on the left channel loud and clear because of the crosstalk. Both the third party cable 3.5mm and 2.5mm balanced makes it negligible.


----------



## LoryWiv

sandalaudio said:


> Hi. Don't worry. DP-X1 is not bad.
> If you look at the product website, you can see that it can be set up to operate in two different modes.
> 
> Firstly as the normal balanced (BTL) operation mode that you would expect, and secondly as what they call the "ACG" Active Control Ground mode.
> ...


 
 Thank you, that is very helpful!


----------



## iFi audio

sandalaudio said:


> As iFi guys are suggesting, whether it's balanced or not is one thing, but the cable makes a bigger difference.
> 
> In many cases the biggest source of sonic improvement (or difference) between earphone cables is due to the degree of crosstalk. It's one thing to accept crosstalk being inherent and acceptable, but it's another problem if a bunch of cable makers produce fancy cables with tons of crosstalk and claim that it has more focus and imaging because of special magical gemstone powers.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 Our Skin likes this.
  

  
 She wanted to interject. It is worth 'amplifying' (pun intended) the differences shown here.
  
 Using the stock cable in a 3.5mm jack the 'no signal' channel is around 30dB down from the 'signal channel.' Now 30dB means the supposedly silent channel get 1/30th of the signal of the channel that has signal.
  
 Going for the alternative cable, still on a 3.5 unbalanced jack reduces the signal leaking into the silent channel to 70dB or 1/3000th of the signal in the active channel.
  
 True, going balanced gets us another 20dB or 10 fold improvement, however by now we are in the area of diminishing returns.
  
 The change from -30dB crosstalk to -70dB is likely to be clearly audible, while from -70dB crosstalk to -90dB crosstalk will be much harder to detect.
  
  
*Conclusion*
 Or more simple - improve the cable 100 times improvements over a poor start.
 Same cable from unbalanced to balanced, 10 times improvement of a start that is already pushed near audibility limits.
  
 Keep up the good work!


----------



## gr8soundz

ifi audio said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


sandalaudio said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


ifi audio said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks again for the info guys.
  
 I didn't mention 6.3mm but did not mean to imply that I'm only using 3.5mm with adapters.
  
 Early on, I did notice a slight improvement when using straight 6.3mm cables so I often use the longer stock 6.3mm cables for my HD598 and Fostex with the Micro. Other times, I use a pure silver (not plated) cable that I had made for my other headphones along with a balanced to SE adapter.
  
 So I understand the difference good cabling can make (have a Mercury cable and iPower too) but, sincerely, does that mean I'm wasting time trying to go balanced?
  
 If so, should I have gone with the iCan SE instead of a good balanced amp?
  
 The iDSD already has a pretty good amp (been more than happy with it the past year) but I also planned to add an iTube which meant I'd need an external amp. Even looked at the Retro 50 as a possible all-in-one solution but couldn't justify spending two grand on another single-ended device especially when the balanced iCan Pro was in the works.
  
 Since I already have some decent headphone cables and, if there isn't much improvement going from 6.3mm to balanced, should I revisit upgrading to the Retro 50 (even though I'd lose one DAC chip in replacing the Micro with it)?


----------



## Dadracer

Just to add fuel onto the blazing fire of your decision making process, please note that the micro iCAN SE is indeed a better amp than that in the micro iDSD (mainly for battery reasons I understand).
  
 I had one on loan from ifi Audio to compare it directly and subsequently I was moved to buy one myself. In fact this is the system which now uses my HD800s and in SE mode of course but it sounds fantastic and is much closer in overall sound quality to my main system than is right or proper given the massive gulf in price difference.  
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## Johnnystuff

dadracer said:


> Just to add fuel onto the blazing fire of your decision making process, please note that the micro iCAN SE is indeed a better amp than that in the micro iDSD (mainly for battery reasons I understand).


 
 I would really like to have some more in depth comparison between the iCAN SE and the iDSD Micro as regards the amp and the amp only. From the circuitery to the signature, if there's any difference and whatnot. Thanks


----------



## Dadracer

johnnystuff said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > Just to add fuel onto the blazing fire of your decision making process, please note that the micro iCAN SE is indeed a better amp than that in the micro iDSD (mainly for battery reasons I understand).
> ...


 
 Well here is the review I posted which may be of some help as it does compare the amps in these 2 devices. http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-ican-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14809
  
 I cannot tell you much about the difference in circuitry other than the amp in the iCAN SE has a lot of select components and runs in full class A which the amp in the iDSD does not have or do. I'm sure that ifi Audio could help you if you drop them an email if you need more detail.
  
 Hope this helps?


----------



## Johnnystuff

dadracer said:


> Well here is the review I posted which may be of some help as it does compare the amps in these 2 devices. http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-ican-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14809
> 
> I cannot tell you much about the difference in circuitry other than the amp in the iCAN SE has a lot of select components and runs in full class A which the amp in the iDSD does not have or do. I'm sure that ifi Audio could help you if you drop them an email if you need more detail.
> 
> Hope this helps?


 
 Thanks for the link, nice review. Here's another one I just found in the tube (skip to 09:30 for the amp comparison): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlpQidbvdDQ
  
 As it seems the amp section is marginally better on the iCAN SE but not that audible, unless you're a basshead in which case the iCAN SE has a third step in the xbass thingy that will make your headset rumble on your temple. Of course the iDSD has the portability and the DAC (and the extra settings and features) that make it worth them extra money but for a desktop amp it really looks like the iCAN SE is the beast to throw anything else against.


----------



## Dadracer

It's worth pointing out that is the iCAN and not the iCAN SE so I can't tell you what difference there is.


----------



## dharma

About 'balanced'...
  
 here are two posts, do there are 'valid' points?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary/120#post_12306902
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/260346/ignorance-cure-needed-balanced-vs-unbalanced#post_11558111


----------



## sandalaudio

dharma said:


> About 'balanced'...
> 
> here are two posts, do there are 'valid' points?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary/120#post_12306902
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/260346/ignorance-cure-needed-balanced-vs-unbalanced#post_11558111


 
  
 Aside from the objective merits, I think there are sound quality benefits in many cases. A huge part of it is how the amplifier is designed and built to operate in balanced mode. I found the HDVD800+HD800 sound great in balanced mode. Big mains powered desktop amps are easy to deliver in that sense. Portable gear can be more difficult to justify.
  
 Just as one example, I tried the new JH Audio Rosie on my AK240. Rosie comes with two cables. Ordinary 3.5mm stereo, and 2.5mm balanced. Listening on 3.5mm stereo was perfectly fine, but on the 2.5mm balanced cable, I found my AK240 begin to exhibit terrible distortion on loud transients. I noticed that the amp started capping out above 70% volume position.
  
 This was not because balanced is "bad", but more about whether the DAP power supply and the amplifier can cope with delivering ample current to drive low impedance multi-BA IEMs that have big peaks and troughs in the load impedance.
  
  
 More to the point is (since this is a micro iDSD thread), would people be willing to spend more money (and bigger chassis) to have the micro iDSD with balanced amplification.


----------



## iFi audio

Quote:


gr8soundz said:


> So I understand the difference good cabling can make (have a Mercury cable and iPower too) but, sincerely, does that mean I'm wasting time trying to go balanced?


 
  
 Not necessarily wasting time, but you may find a greater return on investment by taking other routes than going balanced. If the cabling is already 'balanced' and terminated directly into a 6.3mm plug you get usually another 3 times (10dB) improvement over the 3.5mm plug with balanced wiring and any benefit balanced in itself can give is further erroded.
  
  


gr8soundz said:


> If so, should I have gone with the iCan SE instead of a good balanced amp?


 
  
 This is hard to say. You should see if you can borrow an iCAN SE or take your setup to a local meet where an iCAN SE will be around, listen and decide for yourself.
  
  


gr8soundz said:


> The iDSD already has a pretty good amp (been more than happy with it the past year) but I also planned to add an iTube which meant I'd need an external amp. Even looked at the Retro 50 as a possible all-in-one solution but couldn't justify spending two grand on another single-ended device especially when the balanced iCan Pro was in the works.


 
  
 We find that with the Tubestate build into iCAN SE, it delivers a very large chunk of 'Tube Magic' in itself and even our tube loving chief designer (who has a Nixie clock on his Android Phone - with tubes for numbers) does not use a iTube with the iCAN SE. He does use the iTube in his Speaker setup, which is more what the iTube was designed for (3D Matrix for speakers, optional preamp function). Some of the senior staff still hold onto the iTube with the iCAN SE. Neither are right nor wrong.
  
 So try the different combinations and decide for yourself.
  
  


gr8soundz said:


> Since I already have some decent headphone cables and, if there isn't much improvement going from 6.3mm to balanced, should I revisit upgrading to the Retro 50 (even though I'd lose one DAC chip in replacing the Micro with it)?


 
  
 Again, this only you can answer, you might want to see if you can to get to spend some time from another customer or an iFi retailer.
  
 The Retro is a rather different product from the micro lineup. For starters it is a full tube Amplifier. And it has and plays everything under the sun.
  
 By the way, dont get too hung up on the second DAC Chip in the iDSD micro which was used to meet our Signal/Noise target for the micro which also ended up giving us a dual-mono design into the mix. In the Retro the tube amplifier has slightly higher noise than the single DAC Chip (this is one of the limitations of Tubes), so there is not much of a point fitting two DAC's here. But does 1 or 2 DACs effect the enjoyment of either? Nope as it is only one aspect.
  
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

dharma said:


> About 'balanced'...
> 
> here are two posts, do there are 'valid' points?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary/120#post_12306902
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/260346/ignorance-cure-needed-balanced-vs-unbalanced#post_11558111


 
  
 Yes, good points made in both posts. In the end balanced or not is not a reliable arbiter of quality.
  
 Also, when we have time we will look into how, many 'balanced' Amplifiers and DAC's are structured; as we are launching balanced products in the Pro line.
  
 But as a hint, many 'Balanced' amplifiers actually use a balanced to unbalanced conversion circuit: a single-ended volume control > a single-ended Headphone Amplifier > then a second set of amplifiers to invert the output of the first headphone amplifier.
  
 To add further insult, many DAC Chip's have balanced outputs, however most DAC's available on the market first convert this to single-ended for the single-ended output and add further circuits to generate a balanced output.
  
 For those who kept count, yes, that is FIVE times amplification in series from DAC Chip to Headphones!
  
 By comparison most single-ended Headphone amplifiers simply have the volume control followed by the headphone amplifier and the single ended output in the DAC usually has just one amplification circuit as well, so only TWO times amplification (usually Op-Amp's) in series.
  
 This is not to say that that the SE system will reliably sound better, but having fewer amplification stages and if the budget is identical being able to spend two to three times as much on the SE amplification stage(s) than for balanced mean there is a good chance of the result being better.
  
 It is worth noting that a lot of the extra work and delays in the Pro line come directly from a _serious effort_ to avoid the 'common practice' in balanced DAC's and AMP's and instead having a circuit that is equally simple for balanced or single ended operation. More about that another day in the Pro Series thread.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

johnnystuff said:


> I would really like to have some more in depth comparison between the iCAN SE and the iDSD Micro as regards the amp and the amp only. From the circuitery to the signature, if there's any difference and whatnot. Thanks


 
  
 Hi,
  
 At the core, the designs of the iCAN SE and Headphone Amplifier in the iDSD Micro are similar, but the precise implementation differs. Actually, the Headphone Amplifier in the iDSD micro is best described as derived from the original iCAN but adapted to limitations of less space AND limitations of battery power as found with the portable iDSD micro, but with extra power from higher voltage power rails.
  
 Both use a circuit structure of Volume Control -> Voltage Amplification stage -> Power Buffer.
  
 In the iCAN SE (and original iCAN) the Tubestate1 discrete circuit handles the voltage amplification. In the iCAN SE we have further fine-tuned the Tubestate circuit as compared to the earlier iCAN. If there is enough power available to support Tubestate circuitry, it sounds warmer, more natural and yet more detailed than Op-Amps. By comparison, the voltage amplification stage in the iDSD micro is a TI Soundplus J-Fet Op-Amp. This is a very good part and you rarely find something at its level of performance in affordable gear, but it is an Op-Amp. The differnece between these two solutions to produce the voltage amplification is not 'night and day,' but it is there and it favours Tubestate.
  
 Other than this core active element for voltage amplification, the iCAN SE (and previous iCAN) also differ by adding substantial extra Class A biasing to the output buffer. What Class A does is to reduce the so-called 'crossover distortion' present in Class AB solid-state circuitry. Crossover distortion may be pushed to low levels using feedback, but it is pernicious in that it has a spectrum and nature that gives it a dissonant, unpleasant character. Even a small amount may give a feeling of edginess.
  
 Again, the circuit used in the iDSD micro is rather good already in this respect and will stay in Class A for much of the music dynamic range. But adding Class A biasing simply pushes the onset of crossover distortion to much higher current levels, so much more of the music's dynamic range is free from crossover distortion. The cost is again additional current. In the iCAN SE Tubestate and Class A Bias account for an extra around 2.5 Watt power consumption over the headphone amplifier in the iDSD micro. In terms of power draw from the battery, this would cut the operating time in each mode about in half, which we felt unacceptable for a portable device. It is portable after all!
  
 The final difference is how the iCAN SE and iDSD operate their power.
  
 In the iCAN SE we have a mains powered 15V/1.5A powersupply (to which the iCAN SE internally generates -15V). We then have substantial additional power supply capacitance combined with LC filters which gives 'cleaner and stiffer' power supply rails. Discrete zero feedback, low noise regulator circuits are then used to further remove noise from the power supplies and lower the power rail impedance (again making the power supply 'cleaner and stiffer'). The discrete regulators are followed by Elna Silmic power supply capacitors buffering the final power to the audio circuits. In the original iCAN, the powersupply was +/-9V and the regulators were lower power and no Elna Silmic capacitors were employed; otherwise the powersupply is similar to the SE.
  
 By comparison in the iDSD, we need to step up a 3.7V (nominal) battery to provide power. And while the iDSD micro has LC filtering it has to make do with only one quarter of the total power supply capacitance of the iCAN SE (as a result of space constraints) and it misses the discrete regulators and Elna Silmic capacitors (again, no space).
  
 So all in all, the differences between iCAN SE micro (and iCAN original) and iDSD micro is simply that the fundamentally similar circuitry in the iCAN SE is far more optimised and has a better powersupply, because we have by far more space and power (mains) available to work with than the amplifier in the iDSD micro.
  
 At the end of it all, one cannot take a BMW and compare it to an MX-5 and say it doesnt handle quite as well! Horses, courses and all that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
1 Read more about Tubestate here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-thanks-to-meze-you-guys-are-great-things-are-a-rockin/75#post_12184763


----------



## Johnnystuff

ifi audio said:


> ....juicy post....


 

  
  
 This post is so full of awesome I feel like reading it costed me 350 bux


----------



## rickyleelee

agree. always learn new thing with iFi guys. I would say only 300 bux though


----------



## dharma

Thanks everybody! Sorry to 'crossreference' different posts from different threads... my 'written English' is not so good to 'interprete' these questions what I wanted to more understand about 'balanced/non-balanced' debates in differents sources... thank You again!


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> At the core, the designs of the iCAN SE and Headphone Amplifier in the iDSD Micro are similar, but the precise implementation differs. Actually, the Headphone Amplifier in the iDSD micro is best described as derived from the original iCAN but adapted to limitations of less space AND limitations of battery power as found with the portable iDSD micro, but with extra power from higher voltage power rails.
> 
> ...



 

Hmm, doesn't the SE use the 6120A2 for HP amp?
Very good IC, but how is that "Tube State"?


----------



## technobear

hotice said:


> Hmm, doesn't the SE use the 6120A2 for HP amp?
> Very good IC, but how is that "Tube State"?




This has already been covered in the appropriate thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-thanks-to-meze-you-guys-are-great-things-are-a-rockin/360#post_12371532


----------



## Triodemode

Just picked up the iUSB 3.0 and will use us it as the power source for my iDSD micro.  The question I have is, down the road when the internal battery goes bad can the iUSB be used as the sole supplier of power to my iDSD, or does the battery still have to be present and charged?


----------



## Matter

There is too much to be read here so pardon if this has been asked.
  
 I am looking to build up a full iFi set and I am really confused by all the iFi products that I do not know where to begin and which product to begin with.
  
 My previous dac/amp was the Centrance Dacmini that I purchased years ago and I am looking for something that can compete and do better than that.
 I am also curious how the iTube can come in as well as the purifier.
  
 So can someone please enlighten me on where I can start?
  
 Also, with iFi constantly generating newer versions of their products, I do not know when I should make the purchase for fear that they may manufacture a new iDSD for example soon.
  
 Thank you very much!


----------



## iFi audio

hotice said:


> > Hmm, doesn't the SE use the 6120A2 for HP amp?
> > Very good IC, but how is that "Tube State"?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 This is actually described in the very post you quoted, where it says: "Voltage Amplification stage -> Power Buffer", it is used strictly as buffer to produce more current than the Tubestate circuit provides.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> The question I have is, down the road when the internal battery goes bad can the iUSB be used as the sole supplier of power to my iDSD, or does the battery still have to be present and charged?


 
  
 Hi
  
 The iDSD micro requires a battery to be present and to hold at least some charge in order to turn on. If the battery fitted is totally dead, it will not turn on.
  
 However, it is perhaps important to understand the definition of 'bad battery.' Generally a modern battery is considered 'expired' once its capacity has dropped to 70% of rated capacity. It means the battery is still functional, but no longer meets the minimum specification on capacity.
  
 If operated in 'cyclic' mode, that is charged fully and discharged fully, around 300 - 400 complete charge cycles are possible before this point is reached. To reach this cycle life it is important to avoid frequently charging the battery when very low (< 15 Degrees) or very high temperatures  (> 35 degrees Celsius) prevail, as this will shorten lifespan/number of cycles. As iFi products use modern batteries, as they lack the so-called 'memory effect,' so there is no penalty from partial charge cycles (read: we recommend to keep topping-up!).
  
 The iDSD micro will operate in 'cyclic' mode if turned off 'hard' and recharge the battery to 100% charge state for maximum capacity in (portable) use. So if the battery is charged and discharged every day it will show appreciable loss of capacity after about 1 year of use, but will likely remain usable at reduced (and further declining) capacity for several more years.
  
 An alternative mode is (incorrectly) referred to as 'float-charging' from the old lead acid batteries used in this mode. Here the iDSD is meant to be always powered and thus the battery is re-charged only to around 80% charge state. This charge was in independent research found to give the overall largest increase in 'shelf life.' This is used automatically if the iDSD micro remains turned on during charging. If enough external power is available (e.g. 1.5A from the iUSB3.0 or from a BC 1.2 Compatible charger or Hub) the battery will very rarely or never draw upon to deliver power. Under such conditions a 'floated' lifespan (with the same definition of 70% capacity) of 3-5 years over a temperature range of 10 to 40 Degrees Celsius is expected, longer with less extreme temperatures.
  
 It should be noted that at 70% capacity the battery is still fully functional and has only lost 30% of its capacity (due to chemical reactions). So it is likely to last at continuously reducing capacity for more than time span that it took to get to 70% capacity given continued identical use.
  
 So in practice, an iDSD micro that is used at normal room temperature and run of a permanent power source with enough current1 and is permanently switched on, should operate trouble and maintenance free for likely at least 7 - 10 years if not more. Replacement batteries are available, just ask your retailer/distributor to have the iDSD serviced.
  
 One last caveat, try avoiding hard drops of the iDSD nano or micro, lithium based batteries tend to take excessive mechanical shock quite badly, in addition to the mentioned avoidance of excessive heat or cold during charging. For discharging fairly high temperatures of up to 60 degrees Celsius and fairly low temperatures down to as low as - 10 degrees Celsius are acceptable but will decrease lifespan as well, so better to keep Lithium Polymer batteries at a reasonable comfortable room temperature.
  
1In this context 'power source with enough current' means a power supply or charger that offers at least 1000mA under a recognised USB power limit signaling, e.g USB BC1.2 (the official USB standard). This means most modern high current chargers except some older Samsung, most Chinese domestic model chargers and anything Apple, as these all operate non USB-Standard methods of indicating a dedicated charger with high power attached, as opposed to a standard 500mA USB Port, which are not recognized under BC1.2.


----------



## Dadracer

matter said:


> There is too much to be read here so pardon if this has been asked.
> 
> I am looking to build up a full iFi set and I am really confused by all the iFi products that I do not know where to begin and which product to begin with.
> 
> ...


 
 It's a bit tricky without knowing what you want, how you plan to use it and how much you want to spend? Do you want an amp and a separate DAC or the 2 combined? Do you need something portable or will it be desktop based? Lots of key questions that only you can answer
  
 Maybe worth a trip to your local dealer so you can see the various options before running amok with a credit card.Plus you want to hear what you are getting.....no?
  
 If it were me though I'd take a look at the nano iDSD and micro iDSD on the ifi Audio website as these would be good starting points in offering you something which will provide a ready made system to begin with and then which you can build up a full system around later with iUSB or iP2 or iTube as you see or hear fit.
  
 I like that ifi are relentlessly moving the game onward and are not just sitting back. It means that they will be able to keep pace with developments and most of these can be added to an existing set up such as the iP2 to bring better SQ levels and in fairness their products are astonishing value for money. 
  
 Hope thats a small help at least?


----------



## Triodemode

ifi audio said:


> Hi
> 
> The iDSD micro requires a battery to be present and to hold at least some charge in order to turn on. If the battery fitted is totally dead, it will not turn on.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for this very detailed response in answering my question iFi.  Because the iUSB3.0 amazingly makes the iDSD micro sound even more silent between musical notes than powering from it's built in battery and used 90% of the time on my desktop computer, I will have the iUSB power the micro and leave on 24/7 to 'float charge' as you indicated for maximum battery life.


----------



## iFi audio

triodemode said:


> Thank you for this very detailed response in answering my question iFi.  Because the iUSB3.0 amazingly makes the iDSD micro sound even more silent between musical notes than powering from it's built in battery and used 90% of the time on my desktop computer, I will have the iUSB power the micro and leave on 24/7 to 'float charge' as you indicated for maximum battery life.


 
  
 Hi,
 You havent tried it on non-iFi DACs?  We get some nice comments from shocked customers.


----------



## iFi audio

matter said:


> There is too much to be read here so pardon if this has been asked.
> 
> I am looking to build up a full iFi set and I am really confused by all the iFi products that I do not know where to begin and which product to begin with.
> 
> ...


 
  
 We looked up the Centrance DACmini. Nice product. What aspect do you want to improve?
  
 If you want better Headphone performance - adding a Headphone Amp might do the trick.
 If you want to improve the line out performance, maybe a Tube Buffer/Preamp?
 If you use the USB inputs, recent years have brought notable advances here in treating some of the problems inherent to USB (not that SPDIF is lacking them).
 If you do want a new DAC and desire higher sample rates, then there are options too, choices depend if you need SPDIF inputs or not, portability etc.
  
 Best you go here and make your own decisions:
 http://ifi-audio.com/improve/
  
  


> Originally Posted by *Matter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also, with iFi constantly generating newer versions of their products, I do not know when I should make the purchase for fear that they may manufacture a new iDSD for example soon.
> 
> Thank you very much!


 
  
 Not sure about that. Modern technologies proceed apace and we dont hang about as shown by our achieving DSD512/PCM768 for products that cost US$500. Apple introduces a new generation of iPhone/iPad/MB every 6 months.
  
 For a long time we have been broadening our product line-up, rather than replacing existing products on a like-for-like basis. After spinning off from AMR, iFi has gone from 4 products in 2012 to 23 in 2016.
  
 We have only recently started to refresh the whole micro line up, especially the older units that have been in production largely unchanged since summer 2012. As such the iDAC pretty much enjoyed a three year model life, before being replaced by the iDAC2.
  
 Hope this sheds more light.


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is actually described in the very post you quoted, where it says: "Voltage Amplification stage -> Power Buffer", it is used strictly as buffer to produce more current than the Tubestate circuit provides.
> 
> Cheers.



 
Strange, because the 6120A2 is typically used as single-IC amp solution, instead of simple current buffer after another VAS stage.


----------



## gr8soundz

hotice said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like they're using it almost like a capacitor. Makes sense as the iCan has no internal battery.


----------



## technobear

hotice said:


> Strange, because the 6120A2 is typically used as single-IC amp solution, instead of simple current buffer after another VAS stage.




So? :rolleyes:


----------



## marcus1

Hello iFi

I'm using my Miicro idsd solely as my DAC for my home stereo system (using direct out). 
With your latest products out, would you suggest any changes/additions that would give me a significant upgrade in SQ compared to how I'm using the Micro now?


----------



## technobear

marcus1 said:


> Hello iFi
> 
> I'm using my Miicro idsd solely as my DAC for my home stereo system (using direct out).
> With your latest products out, would you suggest any changes/additions that would give me a significant upgrade in SQ compared to how I'm using the Micro now?




Yes, get the iPurifier 2.


----------



## Johnnystuff

A bit long but nice review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKP1NAqvvJ4 which makes me add.....



technobear said:


> marcus1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello iFi
> ...




.... and an iFi Mercury and/or all the usb stuff from iFi. If you can afford it it relly looks like the way to go.


----------



## marcus1

johnnystuff said:


> A bit long but nice review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKP1NAqvvJ4 which makes me add.....
> .... and an iFi Mercury and/or all the usb stuff from iFi. If you can afford it it relly looks like the way to go.




Thanks for your replies. I've already using an Uptone Regen between my laptop (running Foobar2000) and the Micro. 
I'm currently reading favorable reviews of people using the Regen with the iusb3 but the iusb3 is beyond my budget, so will try and find more reviews on a purifier2/Regen combo. 
Next tweak is to bypass the Regen's internal reg and insert a lifepo4 battery so just waiting on the battery to try this.


----------



## tf1216

marcus1 said:


> Thanks for your replies. I've already using an Uptone Regen between my laptop (running Foobar2000) and the Micro.
> I'm currently reading favorable reviews of people using the Regen with the iusb3 but the iusb3 is beyond my budget, so will try and find more reviews on a purifier2/Regen combo.
> Next tweak is to bypass the Regen's internal reg and insert a lifepo4 battery so just waiting on the battery to try this.


 
  
 How about the Nano iUSB3.0? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/nano-iusb3-0/


----------



## HotIce

technobear said:


> So?



 
Nothing bad in itself. The O2 does a similar thing, with fully flagged opamps used in unity gain as current buffers. There is more silicon the signal has to go through.


----------



## EDM0611

tf1216 said:


> How about the Nano iUSB3.0?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 iPurifier2 will be a better choice because @marcus1 already have Uptone Regen.
 In my opinion, combo Uptone Regen (or iUSBPower) + iPurifier2 will be better than Nano iUSB3.0 if iPurifier2 has same level of REclock/REgenerate, REbalance technology when compared to Nano iUSB3.0
 Is it right @iFi-Audio ?
 And iPurifier2 could be used with iDSD for portable music as well


----------



## canali

edm0611 said:


> iPurifier2 will be a better choice because @marcus1 already have Uptone Regen.
> In my opinion, combo Uptone Regen (or iUSBPower) + iPurifier2 will be better than Nano iUSB3.0 if iPurifier2 has same level of REclock/REgenerate, REbalance technology when compared to Nano iUSB3.0
> Is it right @iFi-Audio ?
> And iPurifier2 could be used with iDSD for portable music as well


 
  
 yes, iFi i'd be interested in this ,too...would an ipurifier be suggested with the nano iusb 3.0?
 i read with the micro iusb 3.0 not so much needed...
 (at bottom of page)
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier2/
  
 but the nano 3.0?
 provided one is using quality cables ie gemini, mercury other, as well?


----------



## sandalaudio

I don't want to confuse matters even further, but...
  
 I tried the micro iUSB3.0 and iPurifier2 recently with my mobile setup (Audirvana + Macbook Air + micro iDSD), and they didn't make enough of a noticeable difference for me, but the Gemini cable made quite a surprising improvement (Against the stock blue cable, Supra and Furutech). I ended up buying the Gemini cable that I wasn't even planning to buy.
  
 Gemini's two USB connectors make it super awkward for Macbook Air (one USB port on each side..), but it's fine for desktop use.
  
 I found iUSB3.0 made a noticeable improvement on some smaller USB DACs like Geek, Herus, Dragonfly, etc. Maybe iFi's USB input already has decent enough filtering that it's less affected by the upstream noise sources.
  
 It's one of those catch 22 situations where if the company claims there is a huge improvement by using some additional USB/power filtering thing, then that would imply that the filtering built into their DAC product is not very good.


----------



## EDM0611

canali said:


> yes, iFi i'd be interested in this ,too...would an ipurifier be suggested with the nano iusb 3.0?
> i read with the micro iusb 3.0 not so much needed...
> (at bottom of page)
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier2/
> ...


 
 You can refer to this post from iFi: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=95 (see attachment)
 Here are 2 main things we need to consider:
 + Audio signal improvement: REclock/REgenerate/REbalance technology
 + Power supply improvement: Active Noise Cancellation (reduce noise floor) & PowerStation (provide more stable power) technology.
 So iPurifier2 is not required for miUSB3 & niUSB3, but for some equipment like iUSBPower which just effect on power line, iPurifier2 can be paired to improve the audio signal.
 For DACs which dont use power from USB line for operation, there are 2 options from iFi to improve power quality: iPower & DC Purifier


----------



## canali

edm0611 said:


> You can refer to this post from iFi: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=95 (see attachment)
> Here are 2 main things we need to consider:
> + Audio signal improvement: REclock/REgenerate/REbalance technology
> + Power supply improvement: Active Noise Cancellation (reduce noise floor) & PowerStation (provide more stable power) technology.
> ...


 
 many thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

hotice said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Strange, because the 6120A2 is typically used as single-IC amp solution, instead of simple current buffer after another VAS stage.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Don't take this the wrong way but we don't undertsand what is 'strange' about this?
  
 Like any transistor or integrated circuit the TPA6120 is merely a _building block_ that may be used in many ways; according to the designers' wishes. Just like the same style brick may be used in many different architectural designs - anything from a high-rise to a bungalow.
  
 Please bear with us here as we elaborate further - the TPA6120 is incredibly ill-suited to use as standalone HP Amp fed from a volume control. Doing so will invariably introduce large amounts of coloration (distortion) because of its internal circuit structure and should probably be accounted in audio terms as quite poor.
  
 For those who like to delve deeper, starting with the datasheet, it is actually quite explicit in disallowing (disavowing?) volume controls and prescribing equal and low impedance for both inverting and non-inverting inputs. As we always say, if one referred to datasheets (at least as a starting point) then this becomes quite clear. Of course, it never says "you must not do XXX" (where XXX is a volume pot on the non-inverting input and a normal feedback loop  on the inverting input). TI after all, does not want to loose sales, but it actually should say it, for all those on whom the more intricate details of Datasheets are lost.
  
 Anyway, don't expect 'cookie cutter' designs from iFi. We don't do that even in cases where we could, because it's boring and rarely sounds good.


----------



## iFi audio

marcus1 said:


> Hello iFi
> 
> I'm using my Miicro idsd solely as my DAC for my home stereo system (using direct out).
> With your latest products out, would you suggest any changes/additions that would give me a significant upgrade in SQ compared to how I'm using the Micro now?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 If you intend to solely use in your home system, you cna try the iDAC2 - it is plug and play. Literally.
  
 No need to pay for a multi-faceted portable headphone section that you will hardly use. SQ wise, the iDAC2 is up there with the micro DSD. As always, try both in your system. This is just our suggestion.
  
 Once you have settled in the DAC then drop the STS guys a line and they can ake recommendations based upon your system.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## john57

Of course that the iUSB3 is great when you have several AC powered devices and it has a type of ground lift (IsoGround) that  that can reduce ground loop noise.


----------



## iFi audio

edm0611 said:


> iPurifier2 will be a better choice because @marcus1 already have Uptone Regen.
> In my opinion, combo Uptone Regen (or iUSBPower) + iPurifier2 will be better than Nano iUSB3.0 if iPurifier2 has same level of REclock/REgenerate, REbalance technology when compared to Nano iUSB3.0
> Is it right @iFi-Audio ?
> And iPurifier2 could be used with iDSD for portable music as well


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Here you go:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/ifi-usb-technology-comparison-table/
  
 Cheers.


----------



## EDM0611

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, but my question here is about the comparison of combo iPurifier2+iUSBPower with nano iUSB3.0


----------



## Dadracer

edm0611 said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
 The iUSBPower with iP2 is what I use and it is my understanding that it is sound wise on a par with the new nano iUSB3 except that it doesn't have USB3 functionality which is not a problem for me as my laptop isn't new enough!!!
 I think if you are coming to afresh and with no other ifi Audio components then the nano iUSB3 would be the way to go but if like me you have some existing ifi Audio devices such as the iUSBPower then get the iP2 and you are almost there. I guess if you really want you could add an iPower block for the sake of completeness, which is something I am contemplating at the moment.
 Certainly these devices will let you get the very best out of your DAC and especially if it is an ifi DAC2 or iDSD.


----------



## iFi audio

edm0611 said:


> Thanks, but my question here is about the comparison of combo iPurifier2+iUSBPower with nano iUSB3.0


 
  
 Hi,

 See comparison table: USB 2 chipset vs. USB 3 chipset and so on. The micro USB3.0 and nano US3.0 and the iPurifier2 are standalone products as outlined in the table. So no need to mix 'n match. Just try the one that suits your DAC needs as micro iUSB3.0 on a US$300 DAC is a trifle excessive (just our opinion).
  
 BUT bottom line, very similar, but if one already has the iUSBPower, then it is more cost effective to add IP2 - no need to discard the iUSB Power. It is still a darn performer. But if one does not already have the iUSB Power, then just try the nano USB3.0.
  
 Hope this clarifies.


----------



## Dadracer

ifi audio said:


> edm0611 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, but my question here is about the comparison of combo iPurifier2+iUSBPower with nano iUSB3.0
> ...


 
 I think I am saying the same as you are saying and as you are here I have a question. If I have the iUSBPower and now the iP2 is it worth adding on an iPower (would it be the 9V?) to that to team to give it the best results please?


----------



## iFi audio

dadracer said:


> I think I am saying the same as you are saying and as you are here I have a question. If I have the iUSBPower and now the iP2 is it worth adding on an iPower (would it be the 9V?) to that to team to give it the best results please?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Original iUSB Power came with the iFI Ultra Low Noise power supply. Then since October-ish last year, it was upgraded with the iPower. So yes, if you have the iUSB Power, it is worth trying with the iPOWER because it is _even_ quieter.
  
 But try it for yourself first!
  
 Cheers


----------



## EDM0611

Hi Kate,
 The iUSBPower has IsoEarth system which similar to IsoGround in miUSB3.0 (and nano iUSB3.0 doesnt have) and IsoPower+ (3-stage Subsonic noise filters and 3-stage 6th order RFI noise filter) which provide 5 times lower noise than IsoPower (Subsonic noise filter and 2-stage 4th order RFI noise filter) of nano iUSB.
 The different between USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 chipset is clear but I think it's not important here when we talk about the SQ, I am right?
 So I just wonder about feature REclock/REgenerate/REbalance in each device. Do they have same capacitors, same number of filters, or something like that on their circuit board to do this function?
 Thanks!


----------



## Dadracer

ifi audio said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > I think I am saying the same as you are saying and as you are here I have a question. If I have the iUSBPower and now the iP2 is it worth adding on an iPower (would it be the 9V?) to that to team to give it the best results please?
> ...


 
 Thanks and apologies for jumping into the middle of this but just to confirm that the iPower needed for the iUSBPower is the 9V version???


----------



## iFi audio

edm0611 said:


> Hi Kate,
> The iUSBPower has IsoEarth system which similar to IsoGround in miUSB3.0 (and nano iUSB3.0 doesnt have) and IsoPower+ (3 stage Subsonic noise filters and 3 stage 6th order RF noise filter) which provide 5 times quite than IsoPower of nano iUSB.
> The different between USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 chipset is clear but I think it's not important here, I am right?
> So I just wonder about feature REclock/REgenerate/REbalance in each device. Do they have same capacitor, same number of filters, ... on their circuit board?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Try both setups and see what you like. We are getting down to personal preferences/uses.
  
 iUSB Power+iP2 versus nano USB3.0 is swings and roundabouts.
  
 More down to what functions work for your system.
  
 Example 1: if you want home + portable use, then iUSB Power+iPurifier2 is best because when you need it, you can 'de-couple' the iPurifier2 and take it out and about.
 Example 2: if you require USB BC 1.2 fast-charge, then the nano USB3.0 has it. The iUSB Power does not have it.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## iFi audio

dadracer said:


> Thanks and apologies for jumping into the middle of this but just to confirm that the iPower needed for the iUSBPower is the 9V version???


 
  
 Correct!


----------



## sandalaudio

dadracer said:


> I think I am saying the same as you are saying and as you are here I have a question. If I have the iUSBPower and now the iP2 is it worth adding on an iPower (would it be the 9V?) to that to team to give it the best results please?


 
  
 iPower is pretty neat. It's a lot less noise compared the original iFi power adaptor (which was already far better than some generic AC adaptor).
  
 Here's a quick check of the audio band noise spectrum up to 100kHz for the original (top) vs. iPower (bottom) when they're both loaded to 100mA.


----------



## Dadracer

Thanks. It looks like it should be a good thing. I have one that came with my iCAN SE but my iUSB was before the upgrade!


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Don't take this the wrong way but we don't undertsand what is 'strange' about this?
> 
> ...



 
You should have said more something like "we used it because of its high current output", or something along the lines. But, large amount of distortion? Where did you get that? Even at very high (as in, permanent ear loss) levels, and at 3x gain, it's below -100db, when measured human audible level is below -45db. What does volume control have to do with anything? Yes, that IC is a current feedback, which wants a low impedance feedback loop, but that nothing to do with volume control (unless you plan the volume control to be altering the gain - bad idea - and make it part of the feedback loop).
But I understand you are a marketing guy (an electronic engineer would have never made the claims above), so yeah, let's go ahead and say than the 6120A2 is extremely "ill-suited" for the purpose the manufacturing company designed it for, but at unity gain, and a magical one, to boot, suddenly becomes the best thing after fresh sliced bread


----------



## ClieOS

hotice said:


> You should have said more something like "we used it because of its high current output", or something along the lines. But, large amount of distortion? Where did you get that? Even at very high (as in, permanent ear loss) levels, and at 3x gain, it's below -100db, when measured human audible level is below -45db. What does volume control have to do with anything? Yes, that IC is a current feedback, which wants a low impedance feedback loop, but that nothing to do with volume control (unless you plan the volume control to be altering the gain - bad idea - and make it part of the feedback loop).
> But I understand you are a marketing guy (an electronic engineer would have never made the claims above), so yeah, let's go ahead and say than the 6120A2 is extremely "ill-suited" for the purpose the manufacturing company designed it for, but at unity gain, and a magical one, to boot, suddenly becomes the best thing after fresh sliced bread


 
  
 Actually I recalled two different occasions where NwAvGuys commented on two devices (one is FiiO E9, but can't remember which is the other) using TPA6120A2 as buffer in opamp+buffer configuration that have noticeable distortion into low impedance load. I am not an EE to make any engineering claim but for the few amps I own that use either TPA6120A2 as an all-in-one solution or as buffer stage, I can say it fair certainly that iFi's implementation tends to be the most transparent in listening and best measured over RMAA (especially in the case of micro iCAN and iCAN SE). So whatever they have done seems to be working quite well.


----------



## HotIce

As buffer, is like iFi is using it, according to their statements (the VAS part is their "tube state" thing.
So opamp+buffer, if you replace opamp with "tube state" VAS, is like iFi is using it. And I can't hear distortion.
But in both cases, unless misused, the 6120A2 has not audible distortion (unless you are Batman - and I do not claim such power), because it is below -100db.
I have used it in a few projects, and it is a very good IC (note that for me, in that category, there are many - too long to list here).
It is unity gain stable, so you *can* use it as simple buffer, like iFi does. In general, it is just an opamp, and as long as you use it within the manufacturer suggested operating parameters, it will be doing its job.
Which, aside from magical woodoo statements, is the job of taking an low voltage, moderately high output impedance, and converting into higher voltage and lower output impedance.
As far as the output impedance, the output resistor which the TI data sheet suggests, it is on the conservative side.
Also, instead of a simple resistor, you can have an RL filter (example, 10Ohm R and 100uH L), which both has sub-Ohm impedance at audio frequencies, and and the same time higher impedance at frequencies where instability due to capacitor phase effects can show up.


----------



## ClieOS

hotice said:


> As buffer, is like iFi is using it, according to their statements (the VAS part is their "tube state" thing.
> So opamp+buffer, if you replace opamp with "tube state" VAS, is like iFi is using it. And I can't hear distortion.
> But in both cases, unless misused, the 6120A2 has not audible distortion (unless you are Batman - and I do not claim such power), because it is below -100db.
> I have used it in a few projects, and it is a very good IC (note that for me, in that category, there are many - too long to list here).
> ...


 
   
Not disagreeing with you, but I think the difference is in whether it is doing just its job or whether it is doing a great job. Of course it might sounds too voodoo'ish as well, but luckily we are not in the sound science forum


----------



## HotIce

Not saying it doesn't. The iDSD Micro is my office listening rig, and I listen to it for 4+ hours a day (no, I don't work only 4h a day, it's just that going at meetings with HP on looks a little bit weird  ), and I like it.
But so I like the FIIO E12 and the E5 I use at home. At "safe" listening volume, I can hardly, if at all, tell the difference.
My only complain for the iDSD is a big LR channel unbalance until the volume knob reaches 0930..1000 hours (and I am at low gain already), which makes listening at low volumes a left channel only experience.


----------



## rickyleelee

clieos said:


> Not disagreeing with you, but I think the difference is in whether it is doing just its job or whether it is doing a great job. Of course it might sounds too voodoo'ish as well, but luckily we are not in the sound science forum




couldnt agree more.


----------



## iancraig10

Does anyone know where in in the UK I can get hold of the convertor lead for the idsd that goes from femail coax to mono jack plug? I have one with the idsd but need another. The convertor with the idsd is about 4 inches long, but I can't find anyone selling one.

Cheers.

Ian


----------



## Dadracer

Custom cable?


----------



## iancraig10

Thanks, I'll give them a go. It's just to let me plug into the digital socket of Fiio daps.

Ifi supply them with the amp but no one seems to sell them separately.


----------



## ClieOS

iancraig10 said:


> Thanks, I'll give them a go. It's just to let me plug into the digital socket of Fiio daps.
> 
> Ifi supply them with the amp but no one seems to sell them separately.


 
  
 I assume you means a RCA-to-3.5mm? You should know that there are two version of 3.5mm coax configuration on FiiO's DAP and so you must know which version your FiiO DAP has in order to have the correct cable. If you have X3 and X5, then the 3.5mm TS (mono) is signal-ground (iBasso also uses the same configuration). If you have X3II, X5II or X7, then it is 3.5mm TRRS with blank-blank-ground-signal.
  
 Here are the cables that I made for my FiiO. One for old configuration and one for the new configuration.


----------



## iancraig10

Yes, in effect that's it. The Ifi comes with a phono to phono in order to connect digitally. It also comes with a short patch lead that has a female phone on one end and a male 3.5 mono jack on the other. So the patch lead is plugged onto the original phono to phono which allows me to connect my Fiios.

That top lead is the end effect .... A mono kack at one end and a phono at the other.

I looked in accessories on the ifi site and they don't sell any connecting leads at all.

I guess this is fine. Just not great quality but rather than have a converter for the old purple lead, I can use one with a male rca at one end. I'm daft. Didn't think of that!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0114A7QGU/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item


----------



## h1f1add1cted

> My only complain for the iDSD is a big LR channel unbalance until the volume knob reaches 0930..1000 hours (and I am at low gain already), which makes listening at low volumes a left channel only experience.


 

 Do you use iEMatch setting already? I use i.e. for Sennheiser HD800 Gain = Normal, iEMatch: = High Sensitivity, a way better volume control at low listening levels.


----------



## HotIce

h1f1add1cted said:


> Do you use iEMatch setting already? I use i.e. for Sennheiser HD800 Gain = Normal, iEMatch: = High Sensitivity, a way better volume control at low listening levels.



 
I thought I had it on "Ultra", but I had it on "High". Moving it to Ultra helped a bit, to a point that it is much less of an issue now. Thanks for forcing me to double check.


----------



## networkn

Hi. 
  
 So I am borrowing one of these thanks to the generosity of a friend. I am pretty impressed with the clarity and how they drive my T1's and HD650's but I feel something is "missing". I am not sure if it's to be expected considering I am comparing it with a BiFrost and BH Crack Combination. I feel like music that I previously listened to that brought the hairs on my neck up, isn't there with this unit. The sound is clear, and obviously, the unit is tiny compared to the other two. I am driving it via USB and directly to my T1's. 
  
 Is this a known thing, is it the price of the smaller size?


----------



## Brooko

networkn said:


> Hi.
> 
> So I am borrowing one of these thanks to the generosity of a friend. I am pretty impressed with the clarity and how they drive my T1's and HD650's but I feel something is "missing". I am not sure if it's to be expected considering I am comparing it with a BiFrost and BH Crack Combination. I feel like music that I previously listened to that brought the hairs on my neck up, isn't there with this unit. The sound is clear, and obviously, the unit is tiny compared to the other two. I am driving it via USB and directly to my T1's.
> 
> Is this a known thing, is it the price of the smaller size?


 
  
 You're just used to the "flavour" that the Crack brings via the warmth of tube harmonic distortion.  Nothing wrong with it.  I quite like a  tube set-up for my HD600 and T1 as well - although lately I've been simply using the iDSD.  In this case it comes down to preference.


----------



## CFGamescape

Just picked up a micro iDSD to use at work with my Ether C. Looking forward to hearing what this little guy can do!


----------



## rafaelpernil

networkn said:


> Hi.
> 
> So I am borrowing one of these thanks to the generosity of a friend. I am pretty impressed with the clarity and how they drive my T1's and HD650's but I feel something is "missing". I am not sure if it's to be expected considering I am comparing it with a BiFrost and BH Crack Combination. I feel like music that I previously listened to that brought the hairs on my neck up, isn't there with this unit. The sound is clear, and obviously, the unit is tiny compared to the other two. I am driving it via USB and directly to my T1's.
> 
> Is this a known thing, is it the price of the smaller size?


 
  
 Hi networkn, make sure you are using it in battery mode. It is the best option if you don't have USB filter like iUSB3.0. To do it, just turn on your iDSD before plugging it to your source. I hope it helps 
  
 Regards,
 Rafael


----------



## gr8soundz

Don't recall if this was clarified earlier in the thread but, for those of us using the Micro mainly as a desktop dac/amp, does turning it on first (while the usb cable is already attached) still put it in battery power mode?
  
 The answer may be device dependent but I use mine direct to a PC and want to avoid wearing out the usb connectors from constant plugging/unplugging. My PC does not put out any power over usb while off (can't charge my Micro unless PC is on or in standby).


----------



## rafaelpernil

gr8soundz said:


> Don't recall if this was clarified earlier in the thread but, for those of us using the Micro mainly as a desktop dac/amp, does turning it on first (while the usb cable is already attached) still put it in battery power mode?
> 
> The answer may be device dependent but I use mine direct to a PC and want to avoid wearing out the usb connectors from constant plugging/unplugging. My PC does not put out any power over usb while off (can't charge my Micro unless PC is on or in standby).


 
 I use a micro iUSB3.0, so I run with USB power constantly. But in your case, to check that it is indeed in Battery mode, when you turn on your iDSD micro (computer turned off), the LED should blink in green, which means, it is waiting for a digital input (in this case USB).
 I hope it is clear 
  
 Regards,
 Rafael


----------



## maczh2002

Has anyone had experience with pairing the idsd micro with a schiit amp? For example the Valhalla 2 or asgard 2. I'm using zmf x vibros.


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> Don't recall if this was clarified earlier in the thread but, for those of us using the Micro mainly as a desktop dac/amp, does turning it on first (while the usb cable is already attached) still put it in battery power mode?
> 
> The answer may be device dependent but I use mine direct to a PC and want to avoid wearing out the usb connectors from constant plugging/unplugging. My PC does not put out any power over usb while off (can't charge my Micro unless PC is on or in standby).


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Turning it on first to engage battery mode and then connection to a PC is the way to go to put in battery mode. And vice versa. Full instructions in the user manual.


----------



## howdy

Just got my DX80 to pair with this and what a great pairing! One main reason was the dual mSD slots and for the fact I really like iBasso products to.
 So DX80>iDSD Micro>Oppo PM3=Sublime perfection!


----------



## Johnnystuff

howdy said:


> Just got my DX80 to pair with this and what a great pairing! One main reason was the dual mSD slots and for the fact I really like iBasso products to.
> So DX80>iDSD Micro>Oppo PM3=Sublime perfection!



Nah, that's too bad. I've heard the real pro use DX80 > iCAN SE > Meze 99 Classics


----------



## howdy

I'm sure that sounds great as well. Where you able to get your DX80 hooked up to your SE?


----------



## Johnnystuff

Yeah sure, just not with an optical/coax/spdif connection 

At the moment I'm using a 3.5mm to rca, same I use for the speakers of my pc because it's a better cable than any other 3.5mm male/male I have at the moment. Sounds pretty baller. But seriously we're talking about close-to-perfection here, in both cases I'm sure.


----------



## Dadracer

Or of course you could run both for ultimate perfection..............


----------



## Johnnystuff




----------



## CFGamescape

rafaelpernil said:


> Hi networkn, make sure you are using it in battery mode. It is the best option if you don't have USB filter like iUSB3.0. To do it, just turn on your iDSD before plugging it to your source. I hope it helps
> 
> Regards,
> Rafael




So in your opinion, is having a USB filter (e.g., Wyrd, Regen, iUSB [micro or nano]) and having it connected to a USB source superior to say, running your iPhone with CCK and in battery mode?

I guess could try and experiment, as I have both the Wyrd and nano iUSB3.0, but I don't have the iDSD yet (waiting for arrival).


----------



## rafaelpernil

cfgamescape said:


> So in your opinion, is having a USB filter (e.g., Wyrd, Regen, iUSB [micro or nano]) and having it connected to a USB source superior to say, running your iPhone with CCK and in battery mode?
> 
> I guess could try and experiment, as I have both the Wyrd and nano iUSB3.0, but I don't have the iDSD yet (waiting for arrival).


 
 Exactly. With a nano iUSB3.0 for example, you will have lower noise floor in addition to a complete signal regeneration. The SQ difference is quite obvious IMO. Anyways, try it for yourself, you have nothing to lose


----------



## andromeda1954

rafaelpernil said:


> Exactly. With a nano iUSB3.0 for example, you will have lower noise floor in addition to a complete signal regeneration. The SQ difference is quite obvious IMO. Anyways, try it for yourself, you have nothing to lose


 
 I  can affirm that. It makes a huge difference.


----------



## CFGamescape

rafaelpernil said:


> Exactly. With a nano iUSB3.0 for example, you will have lower noise floor in addition to a complete signal regeneration. The SQ difference is quite obvious IMO. Anyways, try it for yourself, you have nothing to lose


 
  
  


andromeda1954 said:


> I  can affirm that. It makes a huge difference.


 
 I thank you both. My wallet does not.


----------



## The Walrus

I use the DSD with my Sony A10, so battery life (of the walkman) is a bit of a problem. Using a USB hub limits my use to desktop only. (i.e. I cannot move from one room to another which is all I want.)
 If I buy the cable below and connect one end to a 2A USB charger and the other end to the walkman, do you think it will work?
  


 PS: I apologize if I asked this before. Just couldn't remember...


----------



## rafaelpernil

the walrus said:


> I use the DSD with my Sony A10, so battery life (of the walkman) is a bit of a problem. Using a USB hub limits my use to desktop only. (i.e. I cannot move from one room to another which is all I want.)
> 
> If I buy the cable below and connect one end to a 2A USB charger and the other end to the walkman, do you think it will work?
> 
> ...




If you use battery mode in your iDSD, the runtime is limited by your iDSD, not your A10, since it doesn't have to provide any power rather than a handshake and audio data. It means you can get about 15 hours in Eco mode and still have battery to spare with in your A10. The only important thing to consider here is that maybe you are getting poor battery life because when your iDSD falls in sleep mode, it detects enough current so that it withdraws 0,5A from your A10. To avoid that, upgrade your firmware to v5.0B or v5.1B. I personally recommend the second one from a SQ standpoint and the first one if you get any kind of problem with DSD (DoP)

And if you still want to run your iDSD 24/7 I think that cable will work fine. I hope I helped 

Have a nice day!

Regards,
Rafael


----------



## The Walrus

rafaelpernil said:


> If you use battery mode in your iDSD, the runtime is limited by your iDSD, not your A10, since it doesn't have to provide any power rather than a handshake and audio data. It means you can get about 15 hours in Eco mode and still have battery to spare with in your A10. The only important thing to consider here is that maybe you are getting poor battery life because when your iDSD falls in sleep mode, it detects enough current so that it withdraws 0,5A from your A10. To avoid that, upgrade your firmware to v5.0B or v5.1B. I personally recommend the second one from a SQ standpoint and the first one if you get any kind of problem with DSD (DoP)
> 
> And if you still want to run your iDSD 24/7 I think that cable will work fine. I hope I helped
> 
> ...


 
 Many thanks Rafael. If for nothing else, it would be very convenient for me to charge both iDSD and A10 using a single charger and cable when they are both off. So Il'' give it a try.


----------



## marcus1

I mainly use the Micro (using battery power) in my home stereo but due to my setup I have to disconnect the USB input cable and replace it with a longer cable to charge the Micro. 

That's the only thing I wish could be improved - any chance of making the SmartPower port "smarter"? e.g.say when the Micro is turned off the Micro's battery can be charged when it senses there is a charger connected to this port?


----------



## canali

iFi micro idsd and mercury/gemini cable owners their laptops:
 need your  help please
  
 sorry i feel stupid for asking but just got a combo pkg (mercury, gemini and micro idsd)
 recently yet don't know how to hook up the cables into the idsd and between my laptop....they don't seem to 
 fit (into the idsd) unless i use one of the accessories ....
  
 are the cables instead to be used first
 with the iusb product and them into the idsd?
 yes i get the dufus award for this one, but hey it is my first computer setup and i'm a bit stumped.
 tried doing alot of googles searches, even ifi's website for setup illustrations, but to no avail.
  
 pls rescue me from my prison of shame


----------



## CFGamescape

Those cables terminate to a USB B, and the iDSD uses a male USB A input. You need a USB B male to USB A male adapter. Does the iDSD come with one? Mine is still in the mail.


----------



## canali

cfgamescape said:


> Those cables terminate to a USB B, and the iDSD uses a male USB A input. You need a USB B male to USB A male adapter. Does the iDSD come with one? Mine is still in the mail.


 
 i'm still trying to figure this out by googling those very terms...and understanding the imputs


----------



## CFGamescape

With your current setup, you only need to use one of the cables, not both. You would use both if you had something like the iUSB, where the Mercury would go from the laptop to iUSB, then the Gemini from the iUSB to the iDSD (using an adapter at the iDSD input).


----------



## canali

maybe this is it? sheesh feel stupid. sorry...like i'm doing lego, lol


----------



## canali

cfgamescape said:


> With your current setup, you only need to use one of the cables, not both. You would use both if you had something like the iUSB, where the Mercury would go from the laptop to iUSB, then the Gemini from the iUSB to the iDSD (using an adapter at the iDSD input).


 
  
 thanks bud...that part i get (one cable not both)...and that was the configuration suggested in using both cables
  
 btw. in your profile...is that your son?
 is so he is soooo adorable...congrats
  
*hint to iFi:*
 pls have some illustrations on your site, even if entitled 'various iFi configurations for dummies 101' 
 still have to figure out how the blue cable or such would work.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 not all of us are tech savvy with configurations....thanks...i now feel liberated (well a bit) from prison of shame


----------



## CFGamescape

canali said:


> maybe this is it? sheesh feel stupid. sorry...like i'm doing lego, lol




That looks right. Does it work?


----------



## CFGamescape

canali said:


> thanks bud...that part i get (one cable not both)...and that was the configuration suggested in using both cables
> 
> btw. in your profile...is that your son?
> is so he is soooo adorable...congrats
> ...




Yes, that's my son. Thank you. He's almost two now.


----------



## canali

cfgamescape said:


> That looks right. Does it work?


 
 yes thanks...have a constant blue light on now...so am on iFi's site figuring things out....guess it's recharging.
 until it turns off it's recharging
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/manual/micro%20iDSD-Manual.pdf


----------



## canali

cfgamescape said:


> So in your opinion, is having a USB filter (e.g., Wyrd, Regen, iUSB [micro or nano]) and having it connected to a USB source superior to say, running your iPhone with CCK and in battery mode?
> 
> I guess could try and experiment, as I have both the Wyrd and nano iUSB3.0, but I don't have the iDSD yet (waiting for arrival)


 
  
 hope you share your results of the wyrd recovery and the ifi iusb nano 3.0.
 will be interesting.


----------



## JootecFromMars

canali said:


> hope you share your results of the wyrd recovery and the ifi iusb nano 3.0.
> will be interesting.


 
  
 So, I have a Macbook Air which is being powered by a 1st gen Macbook Pro PSU, running Audirvana and upsampling to power of 2.
  
 I used to have the Wyrd. Initially used Schiit USB to Wyrd then ifi's pack in blue cable to iDSD. The Wyrd in the workflow did give the audio a blacker canvas. Later I replaced the blue cable with a Wireworld chroma. Couldn't hear any difference.
  
 Then one day I bought a mercury cable. Used that before the Wyrd and swapped out the Wireworld with the Schiit. Big difference in sound. Don't ask how but for me there was much more low end and slam in my LCD-2 headphones.
  
 Then a while later I buy an iPurifier 2. After much testing and changing things around, I took out the Wyrd as I couldnt hear it making any difference with the IPurifier 2 in the system. So now it's simply Macbook Air > Mercury cable > iPurifier 2 > iDSD.
  
 What has though made the biggest difference to my system over time is ifi's recent 5.1 firmware. That update is epic. It's like I just got a whole new DAC costing hundreds more. There is far more separation between instruments. I can know pick out each one and hear what it's doing. Older 80's CD's which sounded rather narrow in the head and sort of off in the distance in front, now sound like they are right there in front of you and hence the soundstage is wider. Firmware 5.1 is just awesome and would love to hear from others how a 5.1 firmware loaded iDSD compares against other DACs now.


----------



## gr8soundz

jootecfrommars said:


> So, I have a Macbook Air which is being powered by a 1st gen Macbook Pro PSU, running Audirvana and upsampling to power of 2.
> 
> I used to have the Wyrd. Initially used Schiit USB to Wyrd then ifi's pack in blue cable to iDSD. The Wyrd in the workflow did give the audio a blacker canvas. Later I replaced the blue cable with a Wireworld chroma. Couldn't hear any difference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Recently got a Mercury cable as well and heard improvements but still waiting on the type A iPurifier 2.
  
 I agree, the new firmware made a surprising jump up in sound quality. Don't have any other DACs near the Micro's capabilities but, when I first got it a year ago, there were some comparisons saying it was very close to the Hugo (different sounding but similar high performance). Hard to imagine what DACs the Micro would measure up to now after the latest update.


----------



## howdy

gr8soundz said:


> Recently got a Mercury cable as well and heard improvements but still waiting on the type A iPurifier 2.
> 
> I agree, the new firmware made a surprising jump up in sound quality. Don't have any other DACs near the Micro's capabilities but, when I first got it a year ago, there were some comparisons saying it was very close to the Hugo (different sounding but similar high performance). Hard to imagine what DACs the Micro would measure up to now after the latest update.



 

When you update this is it the Micro itself being updated or your computer that you are using with it? Also, is there any video showing exactly how to update this? I would hate to somehow ruin this.


----------



## gr8soundz

Ifi introduces new PC driver software from time to time (the latest is 2.26) but this time the Micro's internal firmware gets the update.
  
 You can get it here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
  
 Be sure to follow the instructions here:
 http://ifi-audio.com/steps-firmware-upgrade-2/


----------



## howdy

Thanks! I will give it a whirl tomorrow. Are there any issues with this fw? My biggest issue is getting that annoying popping sound which I DO NOT have right now.


----------



## jhwalker

This is the firmware that is purported to *cause* the pop. iFi is supposedly working on a new version - don't install this one if you're concerned about popping.

That said, it sounds wonderful otherwise


----------



## canali

gr8soundz said:


> Ifi introduces new PC driver software from time to time (the latest is 2.26) but this time the Micro's internal firmware gets the update.
> 
> You can get it here:
> http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
> ...


 
  
 thanks...have now downloaded 2.26 driver twice.
 followed instuctions turned off iDSD then plugged in turned back on
  
 clicked on the program as per instructions...but in the dropdown part of 'browse' nothing shows...shows as empty
  
 btw on a postive note: so cool s I just discovered '_*snippet*_' on windows 10...
 now have saved to taskbar...soooo helpful this tool
  
 have submitted trouble ticket ifi 
  

  
  


  
 now trying this alternative....2.23 upload/install
_Before proceeding, a user note.
 In the event that any incompatibility issues arise with v2.26, then please download and use v2.23 (Download:iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio Driver – for installation – 2.23.exe).
 For further technical queries, please open a support ticket here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/_
  
_*update*: nope...no luck (same results) with 2.23 alternative version_


----------



## howdy

canali said:


> thanks...have now downloaded 2.26 driver twice.
> followed instuctions turned off iDSD then plugged in turned back on
> 
> clicked on the program as per instructions...but in the dropdown part of 'browse' nothing shows...shows as empty
> ...



 

Off topic to, but yes I agree that Snipping tool is the coolest thing since sliced bread.


----------



## gr8soundz

Where did you save the .bin firmware file you downloaded?


----------



## canali

> Where did you save the .bin firmware file you downloaded?


 
  
 in my C drive....uninstalled...reinstalled...clicked it on...same thing showing as earlier.
 tabula rasa


----------



## gr8soundz

canali said:


> in my C drive....uninstalled...reinstalled...clicked it on...same thing showing as earlier.
> tabula rasa


 
  
 In the last pic you posted it appears you're still browsing the USB_HD_Audio_Driver folder, not just the C: drive.


----------



## technobear

Looks to me like he downloaded the iFi USB driver v2.26 for Windows which is a self-installing .exe file for the PC.

Download the iDSD firmware from here: http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/

like you were told. Then browse to where you saved it using dfuapp.exe.


----------



## canali

technobear said:


> Looks to me like he downloaded the iFi USB driver v2.26 for Windows which is a self-installing .exe file for the PC.
> 
> Download the iDSD firmware from here: http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
> 
> like you were told. Then browse to where you saved it using dfuapp.exe.


 
 thanks techno bear
 yes i can assure you i have done this...many times.
 might be an extensions issue where the .bin is ...i reached out to ifi
 with screenshots but didn't find their brief reply too helpful:
 was basically just a repeat of the instructions.
 (edit: seems some uploaded attachments of the screen shots didn't load in my ticket to them
 and may have been some miscommunication)
 ...luckily gr8soundz is helping extensively....but i don't to take up his time.
  
 to be fair, however, there is prob not much anyone can do, really,
 if you're not on my computer. so i get that.
 it's  more on my figuring thing out or correcting 
 something on my end, working thru it.
  
 thanks to everyone regardless, most esp gr8soundz....huge shoutout of thanks to you.


----------



## technobear

canali said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Looks to me like he downloaded the iFi USB driver v2.26 for Windows which is a self-installing .exe file for the PC.
> ...




The download is a zip archive.

http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/firmware/iFi_XMOS_V5.1&V5.1B.zip

You first have to 'extract' the files. To do this, right-click the .zip file and select 'Extract All...' from the context menu.

This will give you a folder with the same name as the .zip file. Inside that folder you will find the .bin files.

Decide whether you need the standard version or the 'B' version according to the accompanying instructions in the .pdf file.


----------



## canali

technobear said:


> The download is a zip archive.
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/firmware/iFi_XMOS_V5.1&V5.1B.zip
> 
> ...


 
  
 1--thanks....decided to reinstall the original iDSD driver....then took it from there...wow...was like pulling teeth
 having my computer read it and find the sub files it was buried under etc.
  
 anyway as per the screen shot it looks ok now...thanks to all...sorry to hog up these pages
 but i do appreciate the courtesy and imput given.
  
 might have screwed up by uploading B version for idsd.
 ugh..me and my computer software sleuthing, not good.

  
 2--finally have idsd hooked up now....
_*interesting finding:*_
 when using it by itself as a standalone dac/amp
 the xbass and 3d affects are subtle to mild.
 but when i'm running it
 as a preamp/dac to my tube headphone amp it's totally different:
 and those affects are considerably more pronounced.


----------



## technobear

canali said:


> thanks to everyone...question however: sorry to ask...but if i uploaded both the reg and b bin files ...but don't need the B
> 
> is it a concern to leave it as is...or best to uninstall it.




You cannot uninstall firmware.

The iDSD (or any other device) can hold one and only one copy of the firmware.

Whichever version you last uploaded, that's the version your iDSD is now using.


----------



## rickyleelee

hey bro. did you mix up firmware with uadio driver. they are not the same!


----------



## LoryWiv

Attended CanJam SoCal this weekend and a little disappointed iFi wasn't in attendance. I'm sure they're busy developing the next great product.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I did audition the much-touted Chord Mojo and while it is adorable and sounds good for it's diminutive size, signature is a bit warm for my taste without the transparency and detail retrieval of the iDSD micro. Also not as versatile re.: settings for IEM match, XBass, 3D etc... I realize many think Mojo is the best value in it's range but for my money I'm sticking with the iDSD micro. YMMV.


----------



## CFGamescape

Just received my (used) iDSD. Been listening to it for a couple hours now hooked up to my iPad > Schiit Wyrd > VSonic GR07 Bass Edition IEMs; currently on Eco mode, IEMatch turned off, and the volume knob around 10 - 11 o'clock.
  
 The GR07s have never sounded so good before. Great separation of vocals and instruments and cleaner bass impact and better extension. I'll be trying my Ether C with it tomorrow. I have the Cs here with me at work, but I wanted to wait to try it on my home setup first...I digress.
  
 The iDSD is a winner to me. Love the build, versatility and sound.
  
 On a side note, I did try hooking up my iPad straight into the iDSD using the CCK and noticed no noticeable difference between the setup mentioned above. I'll keep listening, but I will primarily keep it connected to the Wyrd since the Wyrd provides power to the iDSD.


----------



## rickyleelee

i heard there were some great discounts by manufacturers. did you get anything for a bargain?


----------



## howdy

Anyone play SACD through this? I have a DX80 going to this and it plays through my DX80 but not through the Micro. I was thinking that the Coax was the culprit, any thoughts


----------



## jagu

Thanks for your comparison. I have the iDSD but have been looking at the Mojo due its smaller size. I love the iDSD's versatility and use it with my JH13s and Philips X2. Enough said, decided that I am totally satisfied with my iDSD and any upgrades will be on headphones, maybe audeze Sine and new cables from Forza Audioworks 

Skickat från min Nexus 6P via Tapatalk


----------



## rediazvh

HI guys.. i need your suggestion here, i think my Ifi micro was broke or something bad happen..
  
 At the moment, Im using IFI Micro IDSD from macbook pro.  
 Macbook Pro -> IFI Micro IDSD -> Gustard HA10 headphone amp -> Audeze LCD 2
  
 Yesterday , I Found out that the sound on my right headphone is very very small. the sound from Left headphone is ok though.
 i try to find the cause of this issue, i thought maybe the issue is on my headphone.
  
 Then, i try to connect Ifi micro to my Marantz cd Player. 
 Marantz CDP -> Ifi Micro IDSD (via coaxial) -> Arcam Amp (via RCA)  -> Tannoy Speaker.
  
 And as i'm afraid of,  the sound from the RIGHT tannoy speaker is almost dissapear ! same issue as happened to my Audeze headphone.  the sound from the RIGHT is still there, but very very small, almost unlistenable. You can't hear it if the LEFT speaker is turn on.
 To Investigate further, I  switch the RCA cable on the IFI micro from LEFT (white) to RIGHT (Red), and vice versa. Now the LEFT speaker sound is almost Dissapear, yet the sound from the RIGHT speaker is coming back.
  
 Finally, I Conclude that the cause of this issue is on the RIGHT RCA socket on the IFI Micro IDSD (red colour). the left RCA socket (white) is fine.
  
 Does anybody here have experienced this issue before ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 will appreciate any answer..
  
  
 sorry for bad english


----------



## iancraig10

Have you tried changing the cable?


----------



## rediazvh

I Have tried many cables, still not working.
  
 That's why i'm sure the issue is on the IFI Micro. but still not sure what it is..


----------



## technobear

rediazvh said:


> I Have tried many cables, still not working.
> 
> That's why i'm sure the issue is on the IFI Micro. but still not sure what it is..




http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## canali

hey everyone question please:
  
 i dont' have an iFi usb...considering one, but not right now.
  
 i do have the iDSD.
 was considering (for now) adding in the ipuifier 2 just before the iDSD.
 anyone notice a nice sound diff?


----------



## technobear

canali said:


> was considering (for now) adding in the ipuifier 2 just before the iDSD.
> 
> 
> anyone notice a nice sound diff?




Yes.

Many reports can be found in this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread


----------



## sandalaudio

howdy said:


> Anyone play SACD through this? I have a DX80 going to this and it plays through my DX80 but not through the Micro. I was thinking that the Coax was the culprit, any thoughts


 
  
 By SACD do you mean DSD? (SACD is a physical disc). Then in that case, DX80 can play native DSD onboard, but it can't output that via Coax S/PDIF. It simply outputs silence.
  
 For example, if you do the same thing with AK240, it will conver the DSD to PCM 88.2kHz and output by S/PDIF, so it will play on micro iDSD (though converted to PCM).
 Some other DAPs (I think AK380) can output DoP by S/PDIF.
  
  


canali said:


> hey everyone question please:
> 
> i dont' have an iFi usb...considering one, but not right now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 From my Macbook Air to micro iDSD and micro iDAC2, I tried iPurifier 2, iUSB3 and Gemini cable.
 I found the iPurifer and iUSB3 made no discernible difference for me. The Gemini cable made a big improvement so I ended up buying that instead.
  
 The iFi dealer guy told me that it really depends on how clean the USB outlet on your computer is. Apparently my Macbook Air tends to be one of the better (cleaner) computers around, while there are some nasty ones out there, that will show more audible benefits for the iPurifier 2.


----------



## howdy

sandalaudio said:


> By SACD do you mean DSD? (SACD is a physical disc). Then in that case, DX80 can play native DSD onboard, but it can't output that via Coax S/PDIF. It simply outputs silence.
> 
> For example, if you do the same thing with AK240, it will conver the DSD to PCM 88.2kHz and output by S/PDIF, so it will play on micro iDSD (though converted to PCM).
> Some other DAPs (I think AK380) can output DoP by S/PDIF.
> ...


 
 OK thanks, that makes sense.


----------



## RedJohn456

Hi guys, I found a used one for about 400 CDN and I was thinking of picking it up. Can anyone compare it to the LH Geek Out V2 or FiiO x7 in terms of DAC performance?
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## Solarium

I'm coming from the m9XX and looking for something with a similar footprint, combined DAC/amp, and most importantly, having MORE power to be able to power full sized headphones like the T1 and HD800.
  
 Can anyone input on how is the power on this (using turbo) compared to the m9XX, which I find lacking? When using turbo, do you need to turn the volume past the 2 o'clock position using the T1, HD800? Does it damange the unit if you're using the turbo mode all the time, does it decrease the sound quality?
  
 Update: Looks like from looking at the specs between the m9XX and the iDSD, that the m9XX when using its dual USB input outputs 950mW at 32ohm, where as the iDSD outputs the same amount using only the normal mode. I suspect that the turbo mode will more than double its power since it states on the spec sheet to be 1560mW at 64ohm.


----------



## Narcissus

Got the idsd micro last week, can someone please tell me if I need to download drivers, firmware for playing it via computer. Thanks in advance...


----------



## EDM0611

narcissus said:


> Got the idsd micro last week, can someone please tell me if I need to download drivers, firmware for playing it via computer. Thanks in advance...


 
 You can follow this http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
 And try to update 5.1 Gelato firmware ASAP  http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## technobear

edm0611 said:


> narcissus said:
> 
> 
> > Got the idsd micro last week, can someone please tell me if I need to download drivers, firmware for playing it via computer. Thanks in advance...
> ...




...and yes, you do need a driver for Windows.


----------



## CFGamescape

solarium said:


> I'm coming from the m9XX and looking for something with a similar footprint, combined DAC/amp, and most importantly, having MORE power to be able to power full sized headphones like the T1 and HD800.
> 
> Can anyone input on how is the power on this (using turbo) compared to the m9XX, which I find lacking? When using turbo, do you need to turn the volume past the 2 o'clock position using the T1, HD800? Does it damange the unit if you're using the turbo mode all the time, does it decrease the sound quality?
> 
> Update: Looks like from looking at the specs between the m9XX and the iDSD, that the m9XX when using its dual USB input outputs 950mW at 32ohm, where as the iDSD outputs the same amount using only the normal mode. I suspect that the turbo mode will more than double its power since it states on the spec sheet to be 1560mW at 64ohm.




I'm using it with the Ether C and it drives it plenty fine. I use both Normal and Turbo modes, depending on track. Turbo seems to really allow the bass to extend in EDM and hip hop, for example. But, I never have the volume past 10 o'clock in Turbo. I'd say 80% of the time it's in Normal, where the most I've had the volume was at 1 o'clock, but usually 11.


----------



## technobear

I've never needed more than Eco mode for the T1.


----------



## Narcissus

edm0611 said:


> You can follow this http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
> And try to update 5.1 Gelato firmware ASAP  http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/





Driver and firmware upgrade Done, thanks for the link. I still don't have sound  

1. I'm running the idsd in preamplifier mode (connected to monoblocks via RCA line outputs) I've connected the idsd to a laptop via USB which runs Jriver, 

2. I don't know if my idsd is fully charged or not either, sometimes I get a blue light (no blinking) while charging via USB connected to my laptop, once the blue light goes off after a few hrs and I turn on the idsd unit I get a green light (no blinking) and no sound.

I'm lost, what am I doing wrong here??


----------



## technobear

narcissus said:


> edm0611 said:
> 
> 
> > You can follow this http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
> ...




After turning on the iDSD, use the Windows 'Sound' Control Panel to check that the DAC appears.

In JRiver, tell the program to use the iDSD as the output device. It will be somewhere in the Preferences or Options or Settings (I don't have JRiver).


----------



## Solarium

technobear said:


> I've never needed more than Eco mode for the T1.


 
 What about just using the iDSD as the amp without the iCAN?


----------



## Narcissus

technobear said:


> After turning on the iDSD, use the Windows 'Sound' Control Panel to check that the DAC appears.
> 
> In JRiver, tell the program to use the iDSD as the output device. It will be somewhere in the Preferences or Options or Settings (I don't have JRiver).




I'll check that... Should I try to charge it with an apple charger drawing current directly from an electrical socket? Charging it via a PCB USB seems to take forever (I think)..


----------



## JootecFromMars

narcissus said:


> I'll check that... Should I try to charge it with an apple charger drawing current directly from an electrical socket? Charging it via a PCB USB seems to take forever (I think)..


 
 The manual states to charge for 24 hours before using. If your USB ports are working properly on your PC, then if you let your PC go to sleep, it is possible it's USB ports go to sleep also and hence stop charging your iDSD.
  
 Also, the manual states that if you turn the iDSD on before connecting or powering your PC it will run off the iDSD's battery. To power from PC, connect it to a powered PC and then turn it on. Also if you run the iDSD on turbo it will use both battery and USB power causing the iDSD to eventually run out of juice.


----------



## technobear

solarium said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > I've never needed more than Eco mode for the T1.
> ...




The discussion was about the iDSD, no?

The iDSD is more then enough for T1 in Eco mode.

The iCAN is more than enough for T1 in 0dB gain mode.


----------



## Solarium

technobear said:


> The discussion was about the iDSD, no?
> 
> The iDSD is more then enough for T1 in Eco mode.
> 
> The iCAN is more than enough for T1 in 0dB gain mode.


 
 Wow that's awesome. Didn't think the iDSD can drive the T1 that well.
  
 I was considering the Schiit Lyr 2 + Bifrost multibit, but that has a much larger footprint, is nonportable, I'll have to play with tubes and will cost me x2-3 as much. I just bought a iDSD, hopefully it'll pair well with my T1 and HD800!
  
 Do you like the Xbass mode with the T1? How much difference will it make? Also what o'clock position of the volume pot do you use with the T1 for regular and critical listening?


----------



## technobear

solarium said:


> Do you like the Xbass mode with the T1? How much difference will it make? Also what o'clock position of the volume pot do you use with the T1 for regular and critical listening?




My CD collection spans many decades so the quantity of bass is highly variable. XBASS is very useful for a lot of the older stuff. It's the reason I bought the iCAN in the first place.

The recorded/mastered level is highly variable too so saying I listen at 11 o'clock or 3 o'clock is pretty meaningless without giving specific examples. It depends how loudly the CD was mastered.


----------



## canali

hey guys...love my new iDSD...have it hooked as a preamp/dac into my MAD ear plus headphone tube amp.
 but am thinking of selling my MAD and trying something else..
 perhaps the new ican special edition ...or a tube amp.
  
 there is a guy locally (vancouver bc) whom i took my tube amp to just to have it checked
 over before i unload it,  makes his own tube amps and he suggested the one in the link.
 but i'm sure most headfiers don't  know him (albert of space tech labs).
 http://www.thebestamp.com/Tube_Pre-Amps/Classic_100_Series/QA-001-Mk3.php
 he does have a good rep: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/userfeedback.php?user_id=24170
  
 anyway would love to hear from anyone who's tried both the ican SE alongside any other (preferably tube) amps
 as comparisons, making good matches with the iDSD.
 my cans and iems aren't hi end, btw: sony 7520, senn hd650.
  
 thanks everyone.


----------



## Solarium

canali said:


> hey guys...love my new iDSD...have it hooked as a preamp/dac into my MAD ear plus headphone tube amp.
> but am thinking of selling my MAD and trying something else..
> perhaps the new ican aw ...or another tube amp.
> 
> ...


 

 I would like to know this as well, whether there's a major difference between the iCAN SE vs normal edition, vs some of the other offerings such as H10, Schiit offerings like Asgard 2/Lyr 2/Valhalla 2, Polaris, etc.


----------



## canali

solarium said:


> I would like to know this as well, whether there's a major difference between the iCAN SE vs normal edition, vs some of the other offerings such as H10, Schiit offerings like Asgard 2/Lyr 2/Valhalla 2, Polaris, etc.


 
  
 funny i spoke to my local retailer who sells iFi and other products...when i told him of selling my headphone tube amp  and that i was considering the ican se, he suggested otherwise:
''The ican se is the same amp as the micro iDSD, essentially.
Depending on the headphones, one of the Woo amps could be a nice upgrade''
_makes total sense as i'm not using just the idac2._
  
consequently i've started another thread to get suggestions for alt pairings with the micro IDSD, for those interested.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803126/seeking-new-headphone-tube-amp-in-500-1000-range-and-space-tech-labs-vancouver-bc#post_12461464


----------



## ClieOS

canali said:


> funny i spoke to my local retailer who sells iFi and other products...when i told him of selling my headphone tube amp  and that i was considering the ican se, he suggested otherwise:
> ''The ican se is the same amp as the micro iDSD, essentially.
> Depending on the headphones, one of the Woo amps could be a nice upgrade''
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not saying Woo won't be an upgrade (*listened to WA8 at CanJam SG last month and it is exceptional!), but to say iCAN SE is the same amp as micro iDSD is an overstatement. Sure they both share some of the same parts - but if a person can't tell iCAN SE from micro iDSD, then I'll wonder how much I can trust his/her opinion. If you said iCAN SE shares the same basic sound signature as micro iDSD (though every bit better IMO), then I can understand. Of course, (good) tube amp can give you a very different presentation and you might like it ever better (a la tube magic). But that's not ground for saying those two are the same amp, because they are not.


----------



## Solarium

solarium said:


> I would like to know this as well, whether there's a major difference between the iCAN SE vs normal edition, vs some of the other offerings such as H10, Schiit offerings like Asgard 2/Lyr 2/Valhalla 2, Polaris, etc.


 

 Still would like to hear some comparisons, especially using HD800 and T1. I understand the need for the iCAN for higher impedance headphones, would it be much better for 300ohm headphones like HD800 as well? I guess I can "try it out" from buying from amazon, but with me returning the HD800, Lyr 2 and bifrost multibit together, and plus the iCAN my account may be at risk


----------



## canali

clieos said:


> Not saying Woo won't be an upgrade (*listened to WA8 at CanJam SG last month and it is exceptional!), but to say iCAN SE is the same amp as micro iDSD is an overstatement. Sure they both share some of the same parts - but if a person can't tell iCAN SE from micro iDSD, then I'll wonder how much I can trust his/her opinion. If you said iCAN SE shares the same basic sound signature as micro iDSD (though every bit better IMO), then I can understand. Of course, (good) tube amp can give you a very different presentation and you might like it ever better (a la tube magic). But that's not ground for saying those two are the same amp, because they are not.


 
  
 Solarium...ditto that request for me.
  
 ClieOS
 per my retailer, i think that is what he as inferring: both the iDSD and ican SE have a similar sound signature...but who knows: maybe he was trying to upsell me. 
 so hope to hear more feedback...think it's good, too, for owners of the iDSD to see what else it sonically matches quite nicely with....SS, tube...even 'hybrid' tube amps
 as some of the Woo audio products seem to offer.
  
 this is what one local tube maker in vancouver bc suggested for me, were i to swap out my current mad ear+ purist amp:
 he has good feedback: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/userfeedback.php?user_id=24170
  
 http://www.thebestamp.com/Tube_Pre-Amps/Classic_100_Series/QA-001-Mk3.php


----------



## gr8soundz

canali said:


> funny i spoke to my local retailer who sells iFi and other products...when i told him of selling my headphone tube amp  and that i was considering the ican se, he suggested otherwise:
> ''The ican se is the same amp as the micro iDSD, essentially.
> Depending on the headphones, one of the Woo amps could be a nice upgrade''
> _makes total sense as i'm not using just the idac2._


 
 Quote:


solarium said:


> Still would like to hear some comparisons, especially using HD800 and T1. I understand the need for the iCAN for higher impedance headphones, would it be much better for 300ohm headphones like HD800 as well? I guess I can "try it out" from buying from amazon, but with me returning the HD800, Lyr 2 and bifrost multibit together, and plus the iCAN my account may be at risk


 
  
 ClieOS is absolutely right. Both share a lot of similarities but the iCan SE has a slightly lower noise floor and higher S/N ratio however, both it and the iDSD Micro have max 4W power output so headphone impedance is not an issue.
  
 Main differences are that the iCan SE is full Class A and has the full implementation of iFi's Tubestate technology.
  
 No doubt the iCan sounds better and but how much better depends on the person. When I asked about the iCan SE and the iTube earlier in the thread here's what iFi replied:
  
_We find that with the Tubestate build into iCAN SE, it delivers a very large chunk of 'Tube Magic' in itself and even our tube loving chief designer (who has a Nixie clock on his Android Phone - with tubes for numbers) does not use a iTube with the iCAN SE. He does use the iTube in his Speaker setup, which is more what the iTube was designed for (3D Matrix for speakers, optional preamp function). Some of the senior staff still hold onto the iTube with the iCAN SE. Neither are right nor wrong._


----------



## Solarium

gr8soundz said:


> ClieOS is absolutely right. Both share a lot of similarities but the iCan SE has a slightly lower noise floor and higher S/N ratio however, both it and the iDSD Micro have max 4W power output so headphone impedance is not an issue.
> 
> Main differences are that the iCan SE is full Class A and has the full implementation of iFi's Tubestate technology.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting thing about the Tubestate. Is that implementing tube-like sound into a solid state amp, like the Polaris? Perhaps that's what is adding a "fullness" of the sound and an emphasis on lower-mid frequencies to the amp comparing to the iDSD, since technically they are the same. I believe the only reason why iCAN is class A and iDSD isn't is because you technically cannot be class A as a portable amp.


----------



## iFi audio

*The Gadget Show - iFi giving out free tickets - first come first served.* 
iFI audio is exhibiting at the Gadget Show from Thursday 31st March through to Sunday 3rd April. This is the UK’s largest electronics show held at the Birmingham NEC. There are some 75,000 visitors.
  

We have a limited number of FREE tickets for any customers planning to attend.
  
http://www.gadgetshowlive.net/visiting
  
Just message us on FaceBook with your contact telephone and we’ll contact you.
  
https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio/
  
Able to play with drones, test drive Teslas and listen to DSD512 on the Retro Stereo 50. What more could one wish for?


----------



## gr8soundz

solarium said:


> Interesting thing about the Tubestate. Is that implementing tube-like sound into a solid state amp, like the Polaris? Perhaps that's what is adding a "fullness" of the sound and an emphasis on lower-mid frequencies to the amp comparing to the iDSD, since technically they are the same. I believe the only reason why iCAN is class A and iDSD isn't is because you technically cannot be class A as a portable amp.


 
  
 Not familiar with the Polaris, but there are a few Class A portable amps out there like the Aune B1 and the upcoming Woo WA8. But they run hotter (like all class A stuff) and battery life not as good.


----------



## internaught

Just got my ifi Micro iDSD a couple days ago and have been listening to it, out of the box, quite a lot.
  
 Macbook Pro -> FLAC/ALAC iTunes -> ifi Micro iDSD -> MrSpeakers Mad Dog Pro headphones.
  
 I'm loving this thing. I'm sure it'll get better with time but I'm not going to "burn it in" by letting it run without listening to it. I'd like to know what the difference is on the "filter" settings: Standard, Minimum Phase and Bit-Perfect. I've left it set to Minimum Phase, Normal mode (not Eco), XBass and 3D turned off, Polarity set to "+", IEMatch off.
  
 Also wondering if there is a better/cleaner way to listen to FLAC files on the Mac. iTunes is most convenient, but I'm wondering if there is other software out there.
  
 I'm new to the audiophile scene, but I think I've got a decent setup without breaking the bank. No fancy cables, no endless string of devices.
  
 Having fun jamming out! See you space cowboy...


----------



## JootecFromMars

internaught said:


> Macbook Pro -> FLAC/ALAC iTunes -> ifi Micro iDSD -> MrSpeakers Mad Dog Pro headphones.
> 
> Also wondering if there is a better/cleaner way to listen to FLAC files on the Mac. iTunes is most convenient, but I'm wondering if there is other software out there.


 
  
 I use http://audirvana.com/. Much better than iTunes. iTunes resamples to whatever you have the output set to in midi settings. Which is annoying if you have music at various bit depths and bit rates.
  
  
 Even if I have the midi settings set to the same settings as the track I'm listening to, it never sounds as good as Audirvana. In recent months I have got Audirvana to upsample using the built in iZotrope converter with forced upsampling to 'power of 2 oversampling only' and its pulling details out of tracks that I've never heard before.
  
 It may be a bit costly. But ultimately its about the sound quality of your music. Not sure if there is a trial available. Others use jriver. Not sure how the OS X version compares to the original Windows version though. There are a few other players available. I will let others comment on them.


----------



## JootecFromMars

ifi audio said:


> *The Gadget Show - iFi giving out free tickets - first come first served.*
> iFI audio is exhibiting at the Gadget Show from Thursday 31st March through to Sunday 3rd April. This is the UK’s largest electronics show held at the Birmingham NEC. There are some 75,000 visitors.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Clearly any iFi Audio product is going to be the highlight of the show 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Especially if its from the upcoming Pro range....... looking forward to the Pro iDSD or if it were to ever exist a Pro iDAC and Pro iCAN combo.


----------



## iamoneagain

internaught said:


> Just got my ifi Micro iDSD a couple days ago and have been listening to it, out of the box, quite a lot.
> 
> Macbook Pro -> FLAC/ALAC iTunes -> ifi Micro iDSD -> MrSpeakers Mad Dog Pro headphones.
> 
> ...




If you really want to get the full benefits of your new dac, HQPlayer can upsample to DSD256 on a Mac if your Mac can handle it. Even with standard PCM upsampling, I find it sounds better than Audirvana+. 

So there are 2 issues with HQPlayer. Interface kind of sucks but if you just like to drop and drag files in, than great. Also it doesn't play ALAC on its own. To solve both of these problems you can use Roon as A front end. Amazing interface and feeds anything it plays to HQPlayer for sound engine. So can even upsample Tidal to DSD256.


----------



## Solarium

Just got it! Making some quick comparisons vs Lyr 2/Multibit and m9XX.
  
 Absolutely loving the Xbass with my HD800! Comparing to my Lyr 2 using stock tubes, it's definitely brighter and more exciting. Less bass without the Xbass, but with Xbass better quality and quantity than the Lyr 2. Bass is smoother and more better sounding. It gives the HD800 IMO a much needed lower end boost, just the right amount and not overwhelming. The top end is definitely brighter than the Lyr 2, but I thought the Lyr 2 a bit too warm for me, and made the HD800 slower when listening to EDM. The iDSD is definitely my favorite pairing with the HD800 thus far for EDM. Will be test it out with my T1 too. Interesting, even in non-turbo mode, the volume matches approximately the same as my Lyr 2 (non-IEM) settings. I listen to my HD800 at 10 o'clock on the iFi, anything higher is fatiguing, which matches the 9:30 position of my Lyr 2. I tried the turbo setting on my HD800, I cannot even listen to it at 8AM, and anything close to the "off" position on the volume pot kind of shuts off 1 side of the headphone. I'm using the balanced filter setting and not the normal or bit-perfect one.
  
 The m9XX is overly dark IMO, and even when it's dark and the mid-high bass is kind of accentuated, the low-sub bass I felt was missing. The treble was also incredibly rolled off, which is good for people who do not enjoy brighter sounds, but I felt it kind of defeats the purpose of having a HD800 when the trebles are not as clear, the soundstage narrowed and the sound less airy. The m9XX amp also has significantly lower power than the iDSD's, as it can hardly drive a T1 for me. It drove the T1 to loud volumes, but I felt that the bottom end was missing and the sound wasn't as full.


----------



## twister6

My iFi Micro iDSD review is up: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/15649


----------



## Whitigir

Anyone have the buzz when turn on the IDSD unit like I do ? Or is mine defective ? Also, Zx2 can not digitally feed the IDSD?


----------



## twister6

whitigir said:


> Anyone have the buzz when turn on the IDSD unit like I do ? Or is mine defective ? Also, Zx2 can not digitally feed the IDSD?


 
  
 You are talking about Micro, right?  What is your source and do you use it as a dac/amp or amp only?  Do you turn the power on first and then connect to your source or connect to your source and then turn the power on (running off battery vs charging from the source, assuming digital connection).  Regarding ZX2, isn't it Android based and supports usb otg?  If PH-3 can been connected digitally, not sure why Micro can't do the same, but of course I'm only assuming since I don't have ZX2.  Btw, does the buzz goes away after a while or continue?  Do you hear it as an electrical buzz from the unit, or the audio buzz from headphones?


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> You are talking about Micro, right?  What is your source and do you use it as a dac/amp or amp only?  Do you turn the power on first and then connect to your source or connect to your source and then turn the power on (running off battery vs charging from the source, assuming digital connection).  Regarding ZX2, isn't it Android based and supports usb otg?  If PH-3 can been connected digitally, not sure why Micro can't do the same, but of course I'm only assuming since I don't have ZX2.  Btw, does the buzz goes away after a while or continue?  Do you hear it as an electrical buzz from the unit, or the audio buzz from headphones?




Yes, the micro IDSD 
Note 4 right now, and zx2 is not working via OEM cables (the one that worked with mojo)\
I connected it first before powering on, and it buzz either ways
Buzz lasted for 0.5-1 second before going away
It is electrical hum and buzz, and not the headphones


----------



## twister6

whitigir said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > You are talking about Micro, right?  What is your source and do you use it as a dac/amp or amp only?  Do you turn the power on first and then connect to your source or connect to your source and then turn the power on (running off battery vs charging from the source, assuming digital connection).  Regarding ZX2, isn't it Android based and supports usb otg?  If PH-3 can been connected digitally, not sure why Micro can't do the same, but of course I'm only assuming since I don't have ZX2.  Btw, does the buzz goes away after a while or continue?  Do you hear it as an electrical buzz from the unit, or the audio buzz from headphones?
> ...


 
  
 That doesn't sound right, man, could be defective.  Maybe a faulty capacitor as it charges up the second you turn it on.  Just guessing.


----------



## Whitigir

twister6 said:


> That doesn't sound right, man, could be defective.  Maybe a faulty capacitor as it charges up the second you turn it on.  Just guessing.




That is what I thought, just contacted IFI supports, and waiting to hear back from them. Thanks for the confirmations Twister6


----------



## KANNONS

Does anyone now if this will run the taction response of the Taction Kannon instead of the power pack that comes with it, aswell as amp it. Is the micro an all in one solution for the Taction Kannons.......roll on November.


----------



## Whitigir

kannons said:


> Does anyone now if this will run the taction response of the Taction Kannon instead of the power pack that comes with it, aswell as amp it. Is the micro an all in one solution for the Taction Kannons.......roll on November.




There is a smart charge port on the IDSD, audio out for headphones with 1/4" only, and or line out RCA. The digital out is only coaxial & optical


----------



## technobear

whitigir said:


> kannons said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone now if this will run the taction response of the Taction Kannon instead of the power pack that comes with it, aswell as amp it. Is the micro an all in one solution for the Taction Kannons.......roll on November.
> ...




The smartphone charging port on the iDSD only works when the iDSD is switched off.


----------



## KANNONS

technobear said:


> The smartphone charging port on the iDSD only works when the iDSD is switched off.


 
 Thanks Head-Fi fam, I was hoping it would do the trick but I guess not


----------



## Whitigir

kannons said:


> Thanks Head-Fi fam, I was hoping it would do the trick but I guess not



The IDAC maybe the one you want. The one thing that bigger my mind though, why no balanced out on a "so capable" device ? The IDSD Micro


----------



## KANNONS

I spose they have to put something into the next model.....who knows, but ill look into the idac, thanks


----------



## gr8soundz

whitigir said:


> The IDAC maybe the one you want. The one thing that bigger my mind though, why no balanced out on a "so capable" device ? The IDSD Micro


 
  
 I keep asking that same question. Doubt there was enough room for both SE and balanced outs on the front unless they removed the 3.5mm input but that would've made the Micro digital in only (like the Mojo).
  
 Seems like many British (iFi's parent AMR) audio companies just aren't big on balanced. Until the iCan Pro, no iFi devices are balanced (not even the $2K Retro 50). Even Chord avoids balanced on most all of their stuff (including the $13K Dave).


----------



## Whitigir

gr8soundz said:


> I keep asking that same question. Doubt there was enough room for both SE and balanced outs on the front unless they removed the 3.5mm input but that would've made the Micro digital in only (like the Mojo).
> 
> Seems like many British (iFi's parent AMR) audio companies just aren't big on balanced. Until the iCan Pro, no iFi devices are balanced (not even the $2K Retro 50). Even Chord avoids balanced on most all of their stuff (including the $13K Dave).




Well, they could have had the balanced port if the 1/4" is to be 3.5mm, and the line in 3.5mm moves a bit to the other side, the buttons on 3D and X-bass closer a bit or to the side, and 2.5 TRRS or even 3.5 TRRS..... But yeah, that kinda things I see in British gears as well ? Weird lol


----------



## Dadracer

gr8soundz said:


> whitigir said:
> 
> 
> > The IDAC maybe the one you want. The one thing that bigger my mind though, why no balanced out on a "so capable" device ? The IDSD Micro
> ...


 
 I think it would have increased the cost of the product out of relation to its price point. It's not just a case of adding a socket and I would not imagine that ifi Audio would be happy with any short cuts. In any case a well designed single ended socket is much better than a poorly designed balanced one. I don't think nationality has much to do with it in fairness.


----------



## Whitigir

dadracer said:


> I think it would have increased the cost of the product out of relation to its price point. It's not just a case of adding a socket and I would not imagine that ifi Audio would be happy with any short cuts. In any case a well designed single ended socket is much better than a poorly designed balanced one. I don't think nationality has much to do with it in fairness.




Actually it already has 2 DAC 2 amps, and 2 of everything. Just that it joined into single ended connection. This is their block as shown by twister


----------



## Dadracer

whitigir said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > I think it would have increased the cost of the product out of relation to its price point. It's not just a case of adding a socket and I would not imagine that ifi Audio would be happy with any short cuts. In any case a well designed single ended socket is much better than a poorly designed balanced one. I don't think nationality has much to do with it in fairness.
> ...


 
 Shows what I know then, I stand corrected.
 Maybe it will come with the IDSD2???


----------



## ClieOS

Seems like the balanced vs. single-ended discussion keep coming up every few weeks or so from different people.
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> To have 'Balanced' in itself is not very meaningful. Instead of two channels of amplification in normal configurations - balanced needs four. So that is double the budget for amplification. So for example, getting a 4-Channel Volume control with even acceptable tracking is not just double the money, but a lot more.
> 
> ...


 
  
 ...more if you search around the thread.


----------



## Whitigir

clieos said:


> Seems like the balanced vs. single-ended discussion keep coming up every few weeks or so from different people.
> 
> 
> ...more if you search around the thread.




Thank you for digging this up, but I don't agree.

1/ people would have better options to choose for themselves to use Balanced, or Single Ended. Do not dictate your users options.

2/ Power is not the only thing a Balanced amp would do, and simply thought of this debate is the same as whether using Dual DAC do or do not bring improvements. It is all in the design, and more than often properly configured Balanced out put had been proven to provide better stereos imagines, separations, and less distortions. Perhap, a good balanced connection for your Micro line up would be extremely nice! Again, more option is better than 0 option.

3/ Yes, balanced doesn't have to be powerful, but it has to be done right. I agree!


----------



## ClieOS

whitigir said:


> Thank you for digging this up, but I don't agree.
> 
> 1/ people would have better options to choose for themselves to use Balanced, or Single Ended. Do not dictate your users options.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you can pack infinite circuit into a finite space without any consideration of cost, sure you will right. But such ideal world doesn't exist and (sensible) manufacturer will have to pick what they can do (and do well) to implement into their amp. It is not a question of what can or can not be done, but whether it makes most sense for them to do it. In this case, the case iFi is making is not that they can't do it, but they can use the same space, cost and effort to make a better single-ended amp rather than trying to do a half-baked balanced + single-ended amp that they are not going to be happy about. If they can't even convince themselves that that they can make a good enough balanced amp, how do giving buyer the option to get a lesser amp makes it a 'better option'?


----------



## Whitigir

Well, I still don't see eyes to eyes with what being said by IFI or this here. So, let's stop. I actually love the SE out here, but wishing it had balanced connection. I don't see anything wrong with that


----------



## ClieOS

whitigir said:


> Are you saying compact and portable devices with balanced connections are half-baked balanced connection ? Because the IDSD micro is ...well...huge. But I think you are saying for this size and having IFI to properly configure a Balanced connection is impossible then ?


 
  
 I am saying that - iFi doesn't seem to think they can stuff a balanced + single-ended amp that is _justifiably_ as good as the single-ended amp they already have in the micro iDSD, and therefore they choose not to do it. Again, not a question of doability but a choice out of optimization.
  
 Also, I think of half-baked as a relative term - 50% compared to 100% is half-baked, so is 100% to 200%, etc.


----------



## cav1sa

Hi all,
  
 I've recently noticed the IEMatch toggle is a little wonky, adjusting it seems to cause big left-right imbalance issues, to the point that i stopped using it at all. Further, it seems that even when it's set to "off", it's still pretty of sensitive -- a slight touch of the button can cause the right channel to drop out for a moment. I'm wondering if anyone else here noticed anything similar.
 I never paid any attention to it until just recently when I got some nice CIEMs and now it's bothering me a little bit.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

cav1sa said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've recently noticed the IEMatch toggle is a little wonky, adjusting it seems to cause big left-right imbalance issues, to the point that i stopped using it at all. Further, it seems that even when it's set to "off", it's still pretty of sensitive -- a slight touch of the button can cause the right channel to drop out for a moment. I'm wondering if anyone else here noticed anything similar.
> I never paid any attention to it until just recently when I got some nice CIEMs and now it's bothering me a little bit.
> ...




It shouldn't be that way. Seems to be a defect.


----------



## cav1sa

Thanks @Whitigir, that's what I'm thinking too. I guess I'll reach out to IFI support at some point.


----------



## fordski

cav1sa said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've recently noticed the IEMatch toggle is a little wonky, adjusting it seems to cause big left-right imbalance issues, to the point that i stopped using it at all. Further, it seems that even when it's set to "off", it's still pretty of sensitive -- a slight touch of the button can cause the right channel to drop out for a moment. I'm wondering if anyone else here noticed anything similar.
> I never paid any attention to it until just recently when I got some nice CIEMs and now it's bothering me a little bit.
> ...


 

 I also noticed this problem when I started to use IEMs with my iDSD. My switch behaves the way you described only when using it for the ultra low setting. I have had the iDSD for over a year and never tried the ie match until I started looking to get some good ciems...go figure.
  
 cav1sa, what kind of ciems did you get to go with your iDSD?


----------



## cav1sa

@fordski I got the Custom Art Harmony 8 pro on massdrop and they're absolutely stunning. I wasn't really planning on using them with the iDSD micro. I'm hoping the FIIO X7 with AM2 will be able to properly drive them, so I can use them on the go and just use speakers driven by the iDSD at home.


----------



## gr8soundz

whitigir said:


> Thank you for digging this up, but I don't agree.
> 
> 1/ people would have better options to choose for themselves to use Balanced, or Single Ended. Do not dictate your users options.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That iFi response ClieOS posted was partly from a balanced question I asked earlier.
  
 What I got from it (along with what the guys at Chord said on the same subject) is that balancing was often been used/marketed as a method of getting more power to headphones from devices with poorly implemented SE stages. Those manufacturers found it easier to add a balanced out (while leaving the internals mostly SE) rather than perfecting their SE out (like reducing a higher noise floor; explains why some SE only amps outperform other balanced amps).
  
 I got hooked on balancing after getting a Ponoplayer last year so I'm all for it's benefits but, according to the iFi and Chord guys, the cost of doing it correctly isn't always worth the return on investment (if the SE output is done right).
  
 Still, I'd rather have balanced outs given the choice (even if its only a 3% improvement; lots of small improvements can add up to a larger difference).
  
 But this can also be a debate in reverse. Just look a the new Fostex HP-V8. It has only a single rca input but does have a balanced 4-pin headphone out. So even a giant $7000 amp isn't 100% balanced from end to end (like Chord's Dave with balanced ins but only SE out).
  
 I also mentioned the Micro having dual dacs and iFi said that was done in order to meet their required specs for the lower noise floor. Made sense when I looked up the 1793 specs (not the highest spec chip but had the lowest THD).


----------



## ngkou

I ve been checkng out the ifi micro idsd for 5 days now.
 ​
 ​ Well, the main thing is that both me and my wife do not notice the slightest improvement in sound quality of this ifi micro idsd as a DAC over the internal DAC of my samsung laptop np550 which has a realtek hd audio or over the internal DAC of my samsung galaxy a7 mobile phone .
 ​I connected it with usb/otg cable vs the 3.5mm jack out. I can even say that the DAC from both my mobile and laptop sounds  better than the 2x Burr Brown DAC of the ifi micro idsd.
 ​I used DSD512, DSD256  i,e, "The Mind Bomb" by The The , as well as PCM 24bit 192khz ie "full Moon in Paris" by Amber Rubarth
 ​I also used Foobar2000 for The laptop which runs on Win 7 64bit sp1 and USB Audio Pro for the mobile on android 5.0.1
 ​
 ​Second issue is that the LED becomes for instance magenta /DSD512 ONLY AFTER I DSCONNECT THE USB, and not during the playback.
 ​Third issue is that I cannot get the DIRECT RCA to work ,( i set the switch while ifi is on off mode). The pre-amp works fine.
 ​
 ​Fourth issue is that the provided USB cable does not fit properly to the ifi usb input , as a result the slightest movement cause disconnections. That s why i didnt even think to update the firmware.
 ​
 ​Other than that, the amplifier section works great with my Sennheiser HD800 headphones. But i am very disappointed with the DAC section.
 ​
 ​thanks
 ​
 ​nikos


----------



## howdy

ngkou said:


> I ve been checkng out the ifi micro idsd for 5 days now.
> ​
> ​ Well, the main thing is that both me and my wife do not notice the slightest improvement in sound quality of this ifi micro idsd as a DAC over the internal DAC of my samsung laptop np550 which has a realtek hd audio or over the internal DAC of my samsung galaxy a7 mobile phone .
> ​I connected it with usb/otg cable vs the 3.5mm jack out. I can even say that the DAC from both my mobile and laptop sounds  better than the 2x Burr Brown DAC of the ifi micro idsd.
> ...


 
 I would send it back for a new one as you just might be the only one to not notice a difference in sound from these fine DACs. I have heard some say that using it in AMP mode that there is hardly any improvements but never when using DAC mode as well.


----------



## CFGamescape

ngkou said:


> I ve been checkng out the ifi micro idsd for 5 days now.
> 
> ​
> 
> ...







howdy said:


> I would send it back for a new one as you just might be the only one to not notice a difference in sound from these fine DACs. I have heard some say that using it in AMP mode that there is hardly any improvements but never when using DAC mode as well.




+1. Also, I recommend an aftermarket USB cable such as one from MediaBridge. Fits much better.


----------



## technobear

ngkou said:


> ​Other than that, the amplifier section works great with my Sennheiser HD800 headphones. But i am very disappointed with the DAC section.




Is it new? These take around 200 hours to reach full performance and do go through "growing pains" getting there.

If you are using the 'Standard' filter then it won't sound much different to any other DAC using a standard filter. Use the 'Bit Perfect' filter.

If pre-amp mode works but direct mode doesn't, that would seem to be a fault.

You can wrap tape around the USB plug to make it fit more snugly. 

Updating the firmware will improve the performance (but you won't notice it much until the unit is broken in).

Edit: if the LED is showing the wrong colour then your music player isn't doing what you think it's doing. The LED doesn't lie.


----------



## ngkou

i used for max 30 hrs. I would understand to hear some 5% -10% improvement after 200 hrs but i would expect to hear some of the massive improvement (as reviewers describe) right now
 But right now , i get no improvement at all, compared to the amplifier section alone !
  
 I rechecked and found out that the Direct line works only when ifi is fed through usb input. Direct line does not work when ifi is fed through the analogue 3.5 mm jack. Is that correct ?
  
 See my picture below, i am playing a DSD512 firle on foobar2000 (see left low corner of the screen) , Windows 7 and i selected on max studio quality 24bit/192khz ( it should be a 32bit/192) (see middle right of the screen) and the LED on ifi is yellow ! ! if i select cd quality 16bit then the  LED on ifi goes green.  I am i doing something wrong ??
  
*Does this mean that the Win 7 restrict the max quality provided to the ifi ??*
 Even if that s the case, *shouldn t i notice any improvement in sound quality playing the same track through the supposedly better ifi DAC vs the internal laptop DAC ?? *
*or my internal Realtek HD Audio of the laptop is as good as the ifi DAC ??*
  
 yes, i thought about wrapping the usb with the tape the other day. Good idea , thanks !
  
 on my mobile the DSD512 and DSD 256 (about 2GB each) tracks play with interruptions. it must be either the usb 2.0 otg cable limited capacity of data transfer or the mobile processor. Correct?
  
 thanks for your intrerest in my issues


----------



## ngkou

perhaps, i am doing something wrong ? see my post below. thanks


----------



## ngkou

playing DSD512 on USB AUDIO PRO on my mobile but the ifi LED is yellow when it is supposed to be Magenta !
  
 then i close the usb audio pro application , playing nothing on the mobile and the ifi LED goes Magenta ! Weird !
  
 see pics below


----------



## howdy

Can your phone out put DSD? I know it can play it obviously, but can it output it through your USB?


----------



## ngkou

well, as i said with interruptions. So, the answer is no


----------



## howdy

ngkou said:


> well, as i said with interruptions. So, the answer is no



 

Either can my new DX80. it is, what it is. 
I'm still interested as to why your iFi Micro is not shining like the rest of ours.


----------



## technobear

ngkou said:


> i used for max 30 hrs. I would understand to hear some 5% -10% improvement after 200 hrs but i would expect to hear some of the massive improvement (as reviewers describe) right now
> But right now , i get no improvement at all, compared to the amplifier section alone !




What amp? What speakers? What headphones?




ngkou said:


> I rechecked and found out that the Direct line works only when ifi is fed through usb input. Direct line does not work when ifi is fed through the analogue 3.5 mm jack. Is that correct ?




Yes, correct.




ngkou said:


> *Does this mean that the Win 7 restrict the max quality provided to the ifi ??*




No, it means you haven't configured foobar2000 correctly for native DSD playback.

Download the PDF here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=30




ngkou said:


> on my mobile the DSD512 and DSD 256 (about 2GB each) tracks play with interruptions. it must be either the usb 2.0 otg cable limited capacity of data transfer or the mobile processor. Correct?




What colour is the LED? Your mobile may be converting to PCM on the fly. What is it? There is a thread here somewhere for getting Android phones to work with external DACs.


----------



## ngkou

I compared the ifi micro idsd against the Cayin C5 ($200 head amp)  and against the Lehmann linear ($1200 head amp which Sennheiser used to demonstate their heads before they developed their own head amp HDAV 600 and HDVD 800
  
 For me, the ifi micro has the same sound quality as the Cayin C5 . However, the ifi goes only 10% to higher volumes  which may be useful if you like extremely high volumes with the HD800 when used with mobile phone who cannot give as much volume as the laptops. In addition to that, the ifi is better build quality but not as portable as the Cayin.
  
 The ifi has identical amp performance to the expensive Lehmann Linear. However, the Lehman does not like to be fed from laptops and mobiles but only through RCA CD players or standalone DACs. And even then you cannot use an EQ . On top of that it is not portable. So, for me the ifi amp wins here.
  
 The amp section of the ifi is really good. I cannot imagine how it can get better with the DAC. I start thinking that the whole DAC audi industry is a placebo effect on people, unless your laptop/ mobile is over 7 years old with crap DAC inside.


----------



## JootecFromMars

ngkou said:


> See my picture below, i am playing a DSD512 firle on foobar2000 (see left low corner of the screen) , Windows 7 and i selected on max studio quality 24bit/192khz ( it should be a 32bit/192) (see middle right of the screen) and the LED on ifi is yellow ! ! if i select cd quality 16bit then the  LED on ifi goes green.  I am i doing something wrong ??


 
  
 If you can't hear any difference between the internal realtek and the micro iDSD, especially with a pair of HD800's you must not have foobar and the IDSD set up correctly. It's been a while since I used a Windows PC and foobar 2000 with my iDSD but if you have your music player (foobar 2000, jriver, whatever) set up correctly you should be bypassing the settings in Windows for any external DAC. Make sure you have the drivers from iFi's website installed for the iDSD. And leave them with the default settings. Make sure foobar is set up to use ASIO... this should set it up to bypass the Windows settings and Windows Audio and effectively send the audio data direct to the iDSD without Windows touching it... you may also need some foobar plugin installed to playback DSD files natively and not transcribed to PCM. Certainly from what you've written so far it does read as if you are using Windows Audio and not bypassing it.


----------



## technobear

Some more help playing DSD with foobar2000 can be found here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-and-the-new-firmware-flavours-are-here-page-138/1950#post_11010460


----------



## ngkou

Yes, you are right. i hadn t  configured Foobar2k correctly. Now, the ifi LED lit as it should !  Thanks for your help guys !
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Now back to the sound evaluation...
  
 For instance,  a track from a CD sounds *a bit better* on ifi micro iDSD (using its DAC through USB connection) *than* just its Amp section ( passing by the DAC - 3.5 mm jack input). This is the case when EQ is set to "none".
 Now, when EQ is set according to my preferences the i prefer the result without the ifi DAC section.
 The question is, can I use both ifi DAC section and an EQ at the same time ? I see Foobar2k has an EQ option but i didnt think this EQ was as good as the one in Win 7. And on top of that, i use Spotify a lot and  Win 7 dont give me the EQ option when I pass by the internal laptop DAC.
  
 I even had a chance to check my DSD tracks on foobar2k against the same tracks from Spotify (320kbps). I think DSD now sounds better. But at the same time they sound different. Vocals are closer to you on Spotify , it is like closed headphones to open ones. So, the soundstage seems to be much better but again this may be a difference between Spotify vs Foobar2k playback software, and not a difference between DAC superiority.* I wonder how do you compare Foobar2k vs JMRiver ? Is there a difference in sound quality ?*


----------



## ngkou

yes, this was the case


----------



## ngkou

Now  that i configured the Foobar2k , there are no more disconnections ! thanks guys !


----------



## gordec

Anyone running LCD3f through the micro? How does it sound?


----------



## ngkou

but Mediabridge does not seem to produce usb 3.0 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-USB-2-0-Extension-Gold-Plated/dp/B002KNI796/ref=sr_1_cc_5?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1459773113&sr=1-5-catcorr&keywords=MediaBridge+usb+3.0


----------



## technobear

ngkou said:


> but Mediabridge does not seem to produce usb 3.0
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-USB-2-0-Extension-Gold-Plated/dp/B002KNI796/ref=sr_1_cc_5?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1459773113&sr=1-5-catcorr&keywords=MediaBridge+usb+3.0




Try the 'Quote' button:



Go on, click it. I dare you


----------



## Whitigir

^ dang clear instruction above , but I couldn't dare


----------



## Solarium

Does the iDSD DAC pair well with the bottlehead crack w/ speedball? I figured that if I'm getting an amp I might as well deviate from the SS amp on the iCAN and go full tube. I'll be using a HD800 or a T1 with the crack. Also, any recommendations on the tubes to use with the crack would be appreciated


----------



## marcus1

I want to try a DIY USB cable (between my Uptone Regen and the Micro) without the +5v wire connected (in the cable).  
  
 Anyone please tell me if they know if the Micro will work without the +5V on the incoming USB cable for it to handshake/continue to operate properly?  
 I asked ifi and they responded that the 5v must be present for the micro to work but I'm sure I read somewhere that someone was using a cable without the +5v and the micro was working OK (can't find where I read that now).  Anyone tried this?
  
 Thanks


----------



## aerosuffly

I currently have iDSD > iTube > iCan > headphone. I am thinking about getting a pair of active speaker to use with this rack. Is there a neat way to connect both the speakers and the headphone to to this rack and be able to use them simultaneously? I can not really think of a way to do it rather than manually switching RCA cables because both the iDSD and iTube only have one RCA out.


----------



## Dadracer

aerosuffly said:


> I currently have iDSD > iTube > iCan > headphone. I am thinking about getting a pair of active speaker to use with this rack. Is there a neat way to connect both the speakers and the headphone to to this rack and be able to use them simultaneously? I can not really think of a way to do it rather than manually switching RCA cables because both the iDSD and iTube only have one RCA out.


 
 I don't think there is because you have used the RCA/phono out to your iTube or iCAN. I guess you can get a connection box which doubled up your RCA/phono outputs but that would be less than optimal and could have a negative effect on the sound quality you have worked hard to create. Even if you could I'm not sure that the iDSD would default to headphone only so you wouldn't be able to use them at the same time as your active speakers.
  
 Why are you wanting to do that in any case may I ask?


----------



## technobear

aerosuffly said:


> I currently have iDSD > iTube > iCan > headphone. I am thinking about getting a pair of active speaker to use with this rack. Is there a neat way to connect both the speakers and the headphone to to this rack and be able to use them simultaneously? I can not really think of a way to do it rather than manually switching RCA cables because both the iDSD and iTube only have one RCA out.




1) On the rear of the iCAN, the RCA sockets and the 3.5mm socket are wired together so you can use one as input and one as output;

2) Use a phono splitter cable out of the iTUBE.


----------



## Whitigir

The adapter from 3.5mm to 1/4" that comes in the package works with 3.5 TRRS (hifi man style or Zx2 style) as long as it has L+R+L-R- accordingly to TRRS, then you are good to go.

Now, I am testing it out using my silver cables ! It is nice to have used the same cables to do TRRS out on Zx, and then working on IDSD micro as well. Awesome !


----------



## proedros

so ,* is the amp part in ican SE better than the amp part in idsd micro ?*
  
 i am using (C)IEMs and listening to 16/44 FLAC files , so i don't really mind playing DSD512 files 
  
 i will be using it with a ZX2 player , do i get a better sound if i use the idsd micro dac ? or it doesn't matter and  i an fine just with the amp part of ican SE ?
  
 thanx for any help/feedback , especially from people who own(ed) both idsd micro and ican se


----------



## Dadracer

proedros said:


> so ,* is the amp part in ican SE better than the amp part in idsd micro ?*
> 
> i am using (C)IEMs and listening to 16/44 FLAC files , so i don't really mind playing DSD512 files
> 
> ...


 
 I own both and use them for streaming Tidal HiFi (which is 16/44) and I would vote yes the amp of the iCAN SE is better than that on the iDSD. The iDSD can be battery powered which means that a class A amp like the one of the iCAN SE would have drained the battery too quickly so that ifi Audio had to go with another option. It's not night and day and the amp in the iDSD is very good, so you might want to audition it for yourself to see if the differential make financial sense to you???


----------



## proedros

dadracer said:


> I own both and use them for streaming Tidal HiFi (which is 16/44) and I would vote yes the amp of the iCAN SE is better than that on the iDSD. The iDSD can be battery powered which means that a class A amp like the one of the iCAN SE would have drained the battery too quickly so that ifi Audio had to go with another option. It's not night and day and the amp in the iDSD is very good, *so you might want to audition it for yourself to see if the differential make financial sense to you???*


 
  
  
 will try both idsd and ican se this weekend probably
  
 i had forgotten about the battery part , very good point
  
 thanx for the feedback , much appreciated


----------



## Koolpep

I can only share my experience with the iCan (not the SE). While not as powerful as the iDSD the sound quality just of the amp part is really really good. Same housing as the iDSD but way less features cramped into the case besides the battery of course - so naturally a lot of "space" for enhancements, putting parts further away from one another, less buttons and switches etc.  Now the new SE is reworked to match the performance figures of the iDSD amp with everything ifi has learned from the previous versions - I am pretty sure the iCan SE will be noticeably better - but if it's worth it for you (or me) only a personal audition can show.... I will get my hands on one next week hopefully.


----------



## gr8soundz

Haven't heard the SE yet but an interesting fact keeps popping up in my head each time I think of the iDSD vs iCan SE: The iDSD Micro may be the only battery powered portable with enough juice to run the HE-6.


----------



## Solarium

What level is the DAC portion of the iDSD on par with? Can it be compared to the Bifrost uber/4490? Or is it more along the lines of Modi/O2?


----------



## Whitigir

ICan SE is an Amp....IDSD An Amp with integrated DAC.


----------



## gr8soundz

whitigir said:


> The adapter from 3.5mm to 1/4" that comes in the package works with 3.5 TRRS (hifi man style or Zx2 style) as long as it has L+R+L-R- accordingly to TRRS, then you are good to go.
> 
> Now, I am testing it out using my silver cables ! It is nice to have used the same cables to do TRRS out on Zx, and then working on IDSD micro as well. Awesome !


 
  
 Good to know. Thanks. Another great design detail from iFi.
  
 Really wish they would provide full details like this (instead of just small pamphlets) with their gear. I had planned to buy a second TRRS to SE adapter but turns out I had another all along.


----------



## The Walrus

Can anyone suggest an android phone that can play flac gaplessly with a long battery life to use with micro iDSD?
 thnx.


----------



## quodjo105

gr8soundz said:


> Good to know. Thanks. Another great design detail from iFi.
> 
> Really wish they would provide full details like this (instead of just small pamphlets) with their gear. I had planned to buy a second TRRS to SE adapter but turns out I had another all along.


----------



## aerosuffly

dadracer said:


> Why are you wanting to do that in any case may I ask?


 
 Sometimes I just want to listen through the speakers when I am alone in my office rather than having my headphones on all the time.
  


technobear said:


> 1) On the rear of the iCAN, the RCA sockets and the 3.5mm socket are wired together so you can use one as input and one as output;
> 
> 2) Use a phono splitter cable out of the iTUBE.


 
 Look like 2) is what I need. I will give that a try. Will a phono splitter affects the sound quality?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

the walrus said:


> Can anyone suggest an android phone that can play flac gaplessly with a long battery life to use with micro iDSD?
> thnx.


 

 I got a 2nd hand Samsung S4 (120 bucks) + Anker 7200 mAh Samsung S4 battery + back cover (40 bucks) + 90° angled USB OTG cable (4 bucks) and bought the app USB Audio Player PRO (9 bucks) to get ~ 40 hours non-stop rock-solid, gapless, bit-perfect USB Audio source for the micro iDSD.


----------



## The Walrus

h1f1add1cted said:


> I got a 2nd hand Samsung S4 (120 bucks) + Anker 7200 mAh Samsung S4 battery + back cover (40 bucks) + 90° angled USB OTG cable (4 bucks) and bought the app USB Audio Player PRO (9 bucks) to get ~ 40 hours non-stop rock-solid, gapless, bit-perfect USB Audio source for the micro iDSD.


 
 Excellent advise. Thanks. The most expensive part of the rig will be the 200GB Sandisk microSd then I can retire my Sony A17 for mobile use only.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

You are welcome I'm using a 256 GB full size SD card it's cheaper than 200 GB microSD card, you only need a microSD to SD adapter for the Samsung phone (but the 7200 mAh battery is too big, used the 5200 mAh battery instead and still over 20 hours play back):
  

  
  
 a Kingston 512 GB SD card I will buy soon only 180 Euro that pretty cheap right now. A year ago 256 GB cost me 190 Euro, now only 95 Euro.


----------



## CFGamescape

Just want to report in to say my iDSD and Ether C are doing quite well as an office setup. My fabulous little Jerry-rigged chain includes iPad (Tidal HiFi) > Apple CCK > Schiit PSYT USB > Schiit Wyrd > Mediabridge male A-type to female A-type USB > iDSD. Imaging and SQ throughout FR is very good. Sound stage is not as good as my home system, but this is more than acceptable for office use. In fact, I use it more than at home since I hardly have time or energy to sit at my computer at home and leisurely listen to music.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Picked up a ifi iDSD Micro new yesterday from a local dealer and I am pretty happy with the Micro. At first it was a pain to charge it as I didn't realize you could charge through the digital input, of course I kept focusing on the USB input labelled charging, seemed to make sense. Anyway after plenty of frustration trying to find a cable that would work called my dealer and they set me straight. If I'm not missing ir, I don't think that the manual mentions charging through the digital input? Maybe I missed it.
  
 I am on a Bluetooth headphone kick so I wasn't really thinking about going wired again; however, I was a) curious how my BT headphones would sound wired and b) I knew I might want to pick up something like an Ether C (although surprisingly people seem to suggest it is bass light) so a solid little transportable amp/dac made sense. Anyway, really pleased so far with everything about the Micro. I had a PHA3 about a year ago so memory is unreliable, but this certainly seems to sound as good, but with more power so that is a plus.


----------



## howdy

The manual does say how to charge it. Now you get to play with all the switches. To bad you sold your PM3s as they shine big time with this. What source are you using with it?


----------



## Whitigir

Good that you like it. It can only get better through burn-in . Why did you sell your PHA-3 though ?


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Good that you like it. It can only get better through burn-in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 At the time I was using the PHA 3 to stack with an A17 for my work commute and it was just too cumbersome in that role. When I was using headphones at home, at the time I had my main stereo driving the HE 560 and a Z7 so I found despite the PHA3 sounding very good, it just wasn't getting enough use to justify the expense. As well, I didn't feel it had enough power for more power hungry headphones so when I looked at that point as well I thought there were other options.
  
 So how do you compare the Micro and PHA3? Do you feel both sound essentially as good?


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> At the time I was using the PHA 3 to stack with an A17 for my work commute and it was just too cumbersome in that role. When I was using headphones at home, at the time I had my main stereo driving the HE 560 and a Z7 so I found despite the PHA3 sounding very good, it just wasn't getting enough use to justify the expense. As well, I didn't feel it had enough power for more power hungry headphones so when I looked at that point as well I thought there were other options.
> 
> So how do you compare the Micro and PHA3? Do you feel both sound essentially as good?




PHA-3 needs sometime to burn-in, and I can not really judge it performance at this moment. The one thing I am so sure to tell is that both carry different sound signatures. 

The one thing about PHA-3 is that it get warm, and go through battery like nothing, in the while taking a long time to charge up. The only good about it is that the charging port is separated, so you can feed it and charge it at the same time, but when it get too hot, it shut down .....

Review of micro IDSD in my view

http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/15727


----------



## Sonic Defender

Trying to get my LG USB OTG to work with the Micro. I bought an OTG cable, seems to be a decent quality (The Source or Radio Shack in the US). I wonder how to get Neutron to work with it? I thought it was just plug and play from what I have been reading but all I heard was clicks and pops when I played a song in Neutron with the Micro > G3 over OTG. Any thoughts?


----------



## howdy

Holy Schiit, this sound Amazing!!!!'


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Trying to get my LG USB OTG to work with the Micro. I bought an OTG cable, seems to be a decent quality (The Source or Radio Shack in the US). I wonder how to get Neutron to work with it? I thought it was just plug and play from what I have been reading but all I heard was clicks and pops when I played a song in Neutron with the Micro > G3 over OTG. Any thoughts?




Try Onkyo HF player (paid version) the officially promoted app by IFI. Try Poweramp Alpha (paid version), or USB player pro. Also, you mentioned G3, and I think on older Androi, earlier than 5.0, you need to do the sequence as 

1/ connect the cables
2/ turn on IDSD ....wait for green light to flash
3/ screen on your device, and the IDSD light will turns to different color as it is paired

It happened on my Zx2



howdy said:


> Holy Schiit, this sound Amazing!!!!'




And yes, the micro IDSD is a very musical device


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Try Onkyo HF player (paid version) the officially promoted app by IFI. Try Poweramp Alpha (paid version), or USB player pro


 
 Just watched a YouTube video with the G3 and it definitely quickly recognizes an OTG connected device, but my Micro doesn't seem to get detected at all? No reaction and I tried various Micro on first then connect phone, connect phone then turn on Micro, but nothing. Sadly I don't have another device here to test the cable with. I thought I had read somewhere that some people found Android 6 broke their OTG.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Just watched a YouTube video with the G3 and it definitely quickly recognizes an OTG connected device, but my Micro doesn't seem to get detected at all? No reaction and I tried various Micro on first then connect phone, connect phone then turn on Micro, but nothing. Sadly I don't have another device here to test the cable with. I thought I had read somewhere that some people found Android 6 broke their OTG.




Do the sequence above in order, you will get it to work


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Do the sequence above in order, you will get it to work


 
 I'll try in a few minutes. My G3 has Marshmallow by the way so it certainly isn't the OS I guess.


----------



## ClieOS

sonic defender said:


> Trying to get my LG USB OTG to work with the Micro. I bought an OTG cable, seems to be a decent quality (The Source or Radio Shack in the US). I wonder how to get Neutron to work with it? I thought it was just plug and play from what I have been reading but all I heard was clicks and pops when I played a song in Neutron with the Micro > G3 over OTG. Any thoughts?


 
  
  


sonic defender said:


> I'll try in a few minutes. My G3 has Marshmallow by the way so it certainly isn't the OS I guess.


 
  
 Some Android smartphones require manual selection to detect USB devices, check if that's your case (should be in the setting somewhere). Also, if you want to use Neutron native USB driver, it is also in its setting. However, Neutron's USB driver is quite buggy.


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> I'll try in a few minutes. My G3 has Marshmallow by the way so it certainly isn't the OS I guess.


 
  
 If all else fails try UAPP, Onkyo HF Player, or even HibyMusic might work. Try playing with the usb modes and buffer settings in the apps too.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Something is definitely odd. There does not appear to be any OS/Phone setting anywhere so I don't think that is it. The sequence thing doesn't work, thanks anyway Witigir. The light just stays green, no blinking then when I screen on my phone nothing changes at all. I'll bring my phone and everything with me to my Virgin outlet, who knows, maybe I'm missing something?


----------



## somanydynamos

is anyone paired the idsd micro to active speakers?
  
 tried google for reviews but unable to find much, would appreciate those who had done so to share as i am intending to get a unit for desktop use with headphone, ciem and audioengine a5+


----------



## Sonic Defender

Downloaded a USB OTG checking app which confirmed my phone has OTG capability that is available. Followed the instructions to check the OTG signal between the devices and the results said there was no OTG signal. That could still mean the cable is bad as I haven't tested it with another device, but I'm going to try to find some other device to check. I guess it is also possible that my Micro has an issue and won't support the OTG connection. Hope that isn't the case.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Downloaded a USB OTG checking app which confirmed my phone has OTG capability that is available. Followed the instructions to check the OTG signal between the devices and the results said there was no OTG signal. That could still mean the cable is bad as I haven't tested it with another device, but I'm going to try to find some other device to check. I guess it is also possible that my Micro has an issue and won't support the OTG connection. Hope that isn't the case.




I have no problem connecting it to Note 4  , and it turns right on


----------



## howdy

I've used OTG with my wife's Samsung S6 streaming Tidal and my iPhone with CCK and both worked. I bought a Samsung Grand Prime and I found out it did not have true OTG. I know only certain models work mostly newer and the more top of the line phones.


----------



## Whitigir

howdy said:


> I've used OTG with my wife's Samsung S6 streaming Tidal and my iPhone with CCK and both worked. I bought a Samsung Grand Prime and I found out it did not have true OTG. I know only certain models work mostly newer and the more top of the line phones.




Could be the case, because digital out for high-res audio play back will need high-speed data, correct ?


----------



## Sonic Defender

The G3 is a solid phone, it only came out in late 2014 so we aren't talking about an old phone, and it has Android 6. Not to mention I have ready many posts all over the web about G3 and OTG connecting to all kinds of DAC/amps so it isn't the phone. Most likely to be the cable.


----------



## Dadracer

somanydynamos said:


> is anyone paired the idsd micro to active speakers?
> 
> tried google for reviews but unable to find much, would appreciate those who had done so to share as i am intending to get a unit for desktop use with headphone, ciem and audioengine a5+


 
 Not paired as such but I am running a pair of Wharfedale DS1s from the RCA out on my iDSD to a mini jack into the speakers. They weren't expensive and they sound ok.


----------



## somanydynamos

dadracer said:


> Not paired as such but I am running a pair of Wharfedale DS1s from the RCA out on my iDSD to a mini jack into the speakers. They weren't expensive and they sound ok.


 
 thx for the prompt reply
  
 have you tried using any headphone or earphone with it?


----------



## Dadracer

Yes, yes I have.


----------



## technobear

sonic defender said:


> The G3 is a solid phone, it only came out in late 2014 so we aren't talking about an old phone, and it has Android 6. Not to mention I have ready many posts all over the web about G3 and OTG connecting to all kinds of DAC/amps so it isn't the phone. Most likely to be the cable.




Can I suggest the trial version of USB Audio Player Pro? That should work even if Android is being a bit flaky. I read somewhere that the latest Android has broken USB Audio for a few devices. I'll try to find that again later. UAPP bypasses Android so should work but you do, I believe, need to dig into the settings to select the iDSD as output device. Most likely though the cable is not OTG or is defective.

Ordinary USB extension cables won't work. OTG cables are wired differently. That's how the phone knows to switch from client mode to host mode.


----------



## Sonic Defender

technobear said:


> Can I suggest the trial version of USB Audio Player Pro? That should work even if Android is being a bit flaky. I read somewhere that the latest Android has broken USB Audio for a few devices. I'll try to find that again later. UAPP bypasses Android so should work but you do, I believe, need to dig into the settings to select the iDSD as output device. Most likely though the cable is not OTG or is defective.
> 
> Ordinary USB extension cables won't work. OTG cables are wired differently. That's how the phone knows to switch from client mode to host mode.


 
 Thanks mate. Well, I did purchase the cable new in a shopping mall from The Source (Old Radio Shack stores rebranded in Canada) and it clearly says it is OTG on the box. I will try the UAPP to see, thanks for the suggestion. I thought I had read something about Android 6 being a problem for USB audio as well. It would be interesting if I could roll my phone back to Lollipop and see.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Got it working! I had to go into developer mode and turn on Audio Mode, then exit developer mode. At first I was trying to play audio in developer mode which doesn't work.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Got it working! I had to go into developer mode and turn on Audio Mode, then exit developer mode. At first I was trying to play audio in developer mode which doesn't work.




Lol, and do you like it ?


----------



## Nirvana1000

I am currently researching DACs for my first purchase.But all the research will not help when it comes to a proper demo.Ideally a DAC should be neutral with some light flavouring.The sound im looking for is something similar to my rockboxed Sandisk clip zip.A lot of detail and definition with more refined and cleaner output preferably.I do prefer some weight in the bass when needed.The ifi micro DSD512 is one DAC im considering along with the Peachtree DAC-IT X,Music Fidelity V90 and the upcoming AudioQuest Beetle which also has aptx bluetooth and toslink input.They are all relatively close in price.Any thoughts on differences between the Ifi Micro DSD and the other DACs im considering?My use for this DAC will be mostly home stereo with occasional headphone listening.


----------



## Whitigir

nirvana1000 said:


> I am currently researching DACs for my first purchase.But all the research will not help when it comes to preferences in sound.Ideally a DAC should be neutral with some light flavouring.The sound im looking for is something similar to my rockboxed Sandisk clip zip.A lot of detail and definition with more refined and cleaner output preferably.I do prefer some weight in the bass when needed.The ifi micro is one DAC im considering along with the Peachtree DAC-IT X,Music Fidelity V90 and the upcoming AudioQuest Beetle which also has aptx bluetooth and toslink input.They are all relatively close in price.Any thoughts on differences between the Ifi Micro and the other DACs im considering?




Now, it seems you "may, or may not" like the Micro IDSD upon your described preferences. Because it does emphasize a bit toward the low spectrums and lower mid. But it does beautifully so , damn addictive string instruments even electric guitars. You may want to try it out before buying it.

For your preferences above, I think you will need to consider PHA-3 (with balanced connections) as well. It is more neutral comparing to IDSD. Now, if limited budget, I do not think there is anything out there on the market at this moment can surpass the Micro IDSD at all, and even if you prefer more neutrality, I am sure you will love micro IDSD as well. Because frankly and bluntly, if anyone comes to me and ask for a superb sounding DAC/amp with full of features, power, and in the $400-550, I would point directly at IFI Micro IDSD without even blinking

If you can go a bit further in pricing and prefer single ended, there is Mojo for more neutrality as well in the range of $600 and up


----------



## Nirvana1000

Thanks.There is a store in my city which carries the ifi line and they said i can demo a unit.I might do that today.


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Lol, and do you like it ?


 
 I take it you didn't need to go into developer mode. Are you running Android 5?


----------



## Sonic Defender

nirvana1000 said:


> Thanks.There is a store in my city which carries the ifi line and they said i can demo a unit.I might do that today.


 
 I'll bet you are talking about Planet Of Sound. I bought my Micro from the Ottawa location.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Yes,that is the one in Toronto.And I went there today and i couldn't demo it because there were no cables in the demo box for my ipod or galaxy phone.I brought my mini OTG cable but there is no input for that.And the digital in is not a standard USB connection.So no demo.I will call ahead next time to see if they have the proper cables ready.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Yes, they really need to make sure to have a fully functional cable array. An OTG is rather inexpensive to have around. If you do to The Source, you can get a cable there (I know this is cheesy) use it for the trial and return it to the store as the one I bought comes in a cardboard box so very easy to open with no packaging being damaged. Anyway, I managed to get OTG working fine between my G3 and the Micro so pleased with that. I would advise at least a one foot long OTG cable or, bare minimum 8 inches if you can find such a thing. The 6 inch cable from The Source is too short for stacking and the pressure on the cable is significant so 6 inches is for sure too short.


----------



## Whitigir

And that was why in my review I stated that, why did the device come with everything imaginable...except OTG cables for smartphone ? Lol 

You can always buy this thing and carry anywhere with you, it is so useful !

http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-LDesign®-Android-Smartphone-Samsung/dp/B015XA3W0G?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


----------



## Sonic Defender

Maybe I just don't get it, but the selection of provided cables with the Micro, aside from the blue cable, makes little sense to me. It seems they provided cables that almost nobody would need while ignoring a basic OTG cable. I don't get the selection, I really don't. Can anybody with a wider variety of possible audio devices explain to me how those other cables (not the 3.5mm one, that makes sense) would be useful?


----------



## Brooko

sonic defender said:


> Maybe I just don't get it, but the selection of provided cables with the Micro, aside from the blue cable, makes little sense to me. It seems they provided cables that almost nobody would need while ignoring a basic OTG cable. I don't get the selection, I really don't. Can anybody with a wider variety of possible audio devices explain to me how those other cables (not the 3.5mm one, that makes sense) would be useful?


 
  
 Desktop use.  Mine never goes portable - just sits at the heart of my main system.


----------



## gc335

I just picked up a Micro DSD.  For the most part is sounds really good but I've noticed a channel imbalance at lower listening volumes.  It doesn't seem to balance out until about 10 o'clock (HD600s on normal mode).  Between 7 and 8, I only get the left channel.
  
 Has anyone else experienced this?  
  
 Also, the Xbass switch doesn't seem to do anything.  I've tried it with a few different headphones.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Whitigir

gc335 said:


> I just picked up a Micro DSD.  For the most part is sounds really good but I've noticed a channel imbalance at lower listening volumes.  It doesn't seem to balance out until about 10 o'clock (HD600s on normal mode).  Between 7 and 8, I only get the left channel.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this?
> 
> ...




Channel imbalanced happens at 1-2% of the volume know, but at 40%...trade it in. X-bass does improve mid bass slam and sub bass deeper. Not sure how HD600 scale with it, but my sa5000 and th900 did scale well. It is not noticeable at first couple tries though.


----------



## gc335

whitigir said:


> Channel imbalanced happens at 1-2% of the volume know, but at 40%...trade it in. X-bass does improve mid bass slam and sub bass deeper. Not sure how HD600 scale with it, but my sa5000 and th900 did scale well. It is not noticeable at first couple tries though.


 
 Thanks for the quick response. 
  
 It's probably not 40%.  Maybe 10%.  I tried the same source on my Asgard 2 and that is perfectly balanced from when you can first start hearing something.  
  
 I sent an email to ifi support.  We'll see what they say.  
  
 If anyone else notices the same thing please let me know.  If it's just a quark with the ifi I could probably live with it.  It doesn't seem that a $500 amp should have any kind of imbalance.  
  
 True.  I'll try the XBass with a closed can and see what happens.  I didn't hear anything on the LCD-2s either.


----------



## ClieOS

gc335 said:


> I just picked up a Micro DSD.  For the most part is sounds really good but I've noticed a channel imbalance at lower listening volumes.  It doesn't seem to balance out until about 10 o'clock (HD600s on normal mode).  Between 7 and 8, I only get the left channel.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


gc335 said:


> Thanks for the quick response.
> 
> It's probably not 40%.  Maybe 10%.  I tried the same source on my Asgard 2 and that is perfectly balanced from when you can first start hearing something.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Perfectly normal.
  
 The volume pot in Asgard 2 is a higher class pot called the Blue Velvet, possibly one of the best if its kind (*also one of the more expensive in the market) and made by Alps. The volume pot in micro iDSD, which is also made by Alps IIRC, isn't a bad pot in itself, but certainly not as good as the Blue Velvet. One of the thing that makes Blue Velvet so well regarded is its channel balance in lower region, but you need to understand that Blue Velvet's size is as portable-unfriendly as it gets. Same can be said to almost all good volume pot out there - the really good one usually is huge in size. Therefore you almost never find a volume pot that is totally balance in both channel in portable amp. Those amps that do offers really good channel balance usually rely on digital or semi-digital volume control, which micro iDSD isn't. As I recalled, iFi already mentioned quite a long time ago that they didn't use digital volume control because they believe it will degrade the SQ. Instead, they implemented gain switch as well as IEMatch to compensate for channel imbalance. That being said, if you find your micro iDSD having too high a channel imbalance, then likely you either have the gain or IEMatch too high a setting.


----------



## Sonic Defender

brooko said:


> Desktop use.  Mine never goes portable - just sits at the heart of my main system.


 
 But what devices do those cables hook up with? That was really what I'm trying to understand. I genuinely don't know what devices they are meant to interface with. I still think that OTG is important given how prevalent smartphones are now and how easily they can act as quality transports.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Just putting the Micro through it's paces. While the B&O  H7 is my Bluetooth choice, I really wanted to see how well it scales with more robust amplification, and to a lesser extent a different DAC. I say to a lesser extent as I suspect most decent DACs are pretty transparent so they shouldn't really make a massive difference. Anyway, the H7 is amazing. I can't believe how well they scale. Now there are limits to what a 40mm driver is going to bring to the table, but damn, the H7 is very, very good. It is like a mini TH 900 with better balanced treble. I'm liking the Micro and H7 combination for sure.
  
 I take it the Micro is a little tilted toward bass. No worries, but if somebody had a preference for very neutral bass they would want to make sure that they didn't pair the Micro with a bass canon headphone, or be prepared to do a little EQ cut. The bass is very nice, and quite good quality, but for sure to my ears the bass is north of neutral, but frankly that is what I prefer so it works for me.


----------



## Brooko

sonic defender said:


> But what devices do those cables hook up with? That was really what I'm trying to understand. I genuinely don't know what devices they are meant to interface with. I still think that OTG is important given how prevalent smartphones are now and how easily they can act as quality transports.


 
  
 Can you please tell me exactly which cables you are referring to - otherwise I can't even begin to answer that.  When I get home I'll reopen the iDSD box and recheck everything that came with it.  Mostly I just use the USB and included RCA if I'm going to another AMP (if using iDSD as pre-amp to my LD MKIV)
  
 And given the variety of smartphones out there - and the fact that it is unlikely all will have same pin-outs etc  - evident in the fact that not all phones work with all cables, how would iFi know which cables to include?  It is far better for them to include generic commonly used cables, and let the actual users arrange cables for their specific devices.  Take me for example.  OTG would be useless.  But a lightning connector would be ideal.  Personally I think they've got it right. You just need to look at it from a wider position than your own


----------



## Sonic Defender

brooko said:


> You just need to look at it from a wider position than your own


 
 Not sure I can agree there mate. Android is pretty popular and I think the micro usb out on them is standard so as long as the OS supports USB OTG audio, I think Android 4 and up is safe, then OTG makes plenty of sense, plus they are cheap. Hell ifi even touts the compatibility with Android phones right on the iDSD Micro page on their web site so it strikes me as an oversight and nothing more. I could be wrong, maybe there are some specific OTG cables that wouldn't work, but I thought they were pretty generic. I don't even know what to call the other cables, essentially forget the large blue cable, the RCA, and the 3.5mm cables, the other cable and the little adapter are what I'm asking about. They seem to accept the USB termination that I find on printers so I'm trying to imagine what audio devices would use that interface? Sorry, I don't know the proper names for all the different connectors so my ignorance gets in the way.


----------



## Koolpep

sonic defender said:


> Not sure I can agree there mate. Android is pretty popular and I think the micro usb out on them is standard so as long as the OS supports USB OTG audio, I think Android 4 and up is safe, then OTG makes plenty of sense, plus they are cheap. Hell ifi even touts the compatibility with Android phones right on the iDSD Micro page on their web site so it strikes me as an oversight and nothing more. I could be wrong, maybe there are some specific OTG cables that wouldn't work, but I thought they were pretty generic. I don't even know what to call the other cables, essentially forget the large blue cable, the RCA, and the 3.5mm cables, the other cable and the little adapter are what I'm asking about. *They seem to accept the USB termination that I find on printers so I'm trying to imagine what audio devices would use that interface?* Sorry, I don't know the proper names for all the different connectors so my ignorance gets in the way.


 
  
 How about: Nearly all desktop DACs, like the complete range of Schiit DACs?
  
 It's called a USB Type B cable that you would be able to plug into the micro, the two plugs own the right. 
  
 * copied from wikipedia.
  
  
 My home setup consists of a Burson Conductor connect via: you guessed it type B - most of the home desktop DACs connect via type B - My Schiit Modi does it, my Aune T1 Mk2 has it etc. 
 Some home setups have cables behind furniture or in cabinets or you need a specifically long cable, much easier to get a "normal USB type B" cable than the one with the reversible socket that the micro uses. Hence the adapter from Male Type A to female Type B - so you can integrate the micro easily in your home setup and/or get a longer cable without issues. I use my micro with that adapter at home. 
  
 So, I really like the adapter that is int he package as otherwise I could only use the short USB cable with the receptacle type A which wouldn't work in my setup....
  
 However using the Apple lightning to USB connector is a plug and play as it has a receptacle type A on one end. So another win for me on the go.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Sonic Defender

koolpep said:


> How about: Nearly all desktop DACs, like the complete range of Schiit DACs?
> 
> It's called a USB Type B cable that you would be able to plug into the micro, the two plugs own the right.
> 
> ...


 
 Well there you go, never thought of connecting another DAC, but why not. So funny as I did own a Gungnir for 3 years so you would think I might have remembered that little detail. Oh well, so I'll wipe the egg off my face, but I still think that it would have made sense to include an OTG, more sense actually. If this is transportable, that means the source should be also transportable and given they talk about Android compatibility, and that Android I think has close to 80% of the mobile phone market, it was an oversight in my mind. I think it is equally important to have another cable in the box that allows customers to use another DAC as well as a cable that allows them to hook up a mobile source directly to the transportable DAC they just purchased. I guess like most people do, I have a self-reference bias and because I purchased this as an all in one unit I just assume most others also did the same. I didn't think of integrating it with my home system as it wouldn't give me anything I didn't already have, but the transportable thing was something I didn't have at this level. See, it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
  
 Edit: I was just editing this post and I see a notification that a new post was made. Hopefully it isn't about what I took out!


----------



## Koolpep

sonic defender said:


> Well there you go, never thought of connecting another DAC, but why not. So funny as I did own a Gungnir for 3 years so you would think I might have remembered that little detail. Oh well, so I'll wipe the egg off my face, but I still think that it would have made sense to include an OTG, more sense actually. If this is transportable, that means the source should be also transportable and given they talk about Android compatibility, and that Android I think has close to 80% of the mobile phone market, it was an oversight in my mind. I think it is equally important to have another cable in the box that allows customers to use another DAC as well as a cable that allows them to hook up a mobile source directly to the transportable DAC they just purchased. I guess like most people do, I have a self-reference bias and because I purchased this as an all in one unit I just assume most others also did the same so it never really occurred to me  to use other DACs with the amp when it already had a good DAC. I guess it would make sense if you wanted to test different DACs with the amp. My bad.


 

 Haha, no worries and I am with you! An OTG cable would still fit in the box and would be nice addition. Micro USB for now, in a year or so maybe type C?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Sonic Defender

koolpep said:


> Haha, no worries and I am with you! An OTG cable would still fit in the box and would be nice addition. Micro USB for now, in a year or so maybe type C?
> 
> Cheers.


 
 Type C, that would be interesting. Cheers.


----------



## Whitigir

It seems IFI included those cables for uses with Ipurifier and their accessories, a main charge and digital connection cables to laptop


----------



## networkn

Anyone have one of these for sale? I would be reasonably keen!


----------



## technobear

gc335 said:


> I just picked up a Micro DSD.  For the most part is sounds really good but I've noticed a channel imbalance at lower listening volumes.  It doesn't seem to balance out until about 10 o'clock (HD600s on normal mode).




This is normal for a miniature volume pot with an on/off switch.

Why are you using Normal mode? Try Eco mode.


----------



## gc335

clieos said:


> Perfectly normal.
> 
> The volume pot in Asgard 2 is a higher class pot called the Blue Velvet, possibly one of the best if its kind (*also one of the more expensive in the market) and made by Alps. The volume pot in micro iDSD, which is also made by Alps IIRC, isn't a bad pot in itself, but certainly not as good as the Blue Velvet. One of the thing that makes Blue Velvet so well regarded is its channel balance in lower region, but you need to understand that Blue Velvet's size is as portable-unfriendly as it gets. Same can be said to almost all good volume pot out there - the really good one usually is huge in size. Therefore you almost never find a volume pot that is totally balance in both channel in portable amp. Those amps that do offers really good channel balance usually rely on digital or semi-digital volume control, which micro iDSD isn't. As I recalled, iFi already mentioned quite a long time ago that they didn't use digital volume control because they believe it will degrade the SQ. Instead, they implemented gain switch as well as IEMatch to compensate for channel imbalance. That being said, if you find your micro iDSD having too high a channel imbalance, then likely you either have the gain or IEMatch too high a setting.


 
 Thanks!  I received an email back from ifi and they basically said the same thing.  Great support!


----------



## gc335

ifi said the thing.  I will try that. Thanks for the input.


----------



## Narcissus

Have been using the idsd micro on Windows, but shifting to Mac now. I'm unable to connect the micro on my MacBook Pro. 

Do I need any drivers like I for the Windows, I think not as Ifi says " Apple Mac OSX support USB audio class 2.0 natively, hence no driver is needed"

It says minimum requirement is Mac OS X version 10.9 or Mavericks, I'm using 10.8.5. If I click on update, OS X EL CAPITAN comes up, should I update this ? I've heard not so good stuff about EL CAPITAN.

I've already downloaded the Mac firmware V5.10 Gelato..

What do I do, please help...


----------



## kingdixon

narcissus said:


> Have been using the idsd micro on Windows, but shifting to Mac now. I'm unable to connect the micro on my MacBook Pro.
> 
> Do I need any drivers like I for the Windows, I think not as Ifi says " Apple Mac OSX support USB audio class 2.0 natively, hence no driver is needed"
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 i am still waiting for my idsd micro to arrive, but i took a look at the manual online,
  
 they had something to say about mac, that you should use it in battery power mode, not usb power mode as it is problematic with mac,
 meaning to turn idsd micro on first, then connect it.
  
 don't know if this will solve your problem but thought to mention it.
  
 Hope you get it to work !!


----------



## tf1216

Hi Narcissus,
  
 Try searching for the "Audio MIDI Setup" in the Finder.  The output device needs to be set to the iFi device.


----------



## Narcissus

kingdixon said:


> i am still waiting for my idsd micro to arrive, but i took a look at the manual online,
> 
> they had something to say about mac, that you should use it in battery power mode, not usb power mode as it is problematic with mac,
> meaning to turn idsd micro on first, then connect it.
> ...




Thanks Kingdixon, I tried it an viola  the Ifi showed up on my hardware list in USB, the version is 5.1b, speed: up to 480 mb/sec. Is this it, should I download Audirvana plus and be done? Is the update to El Capitan compulsory?


----------



## kingdixon

narcissus said:


> Thanks Kingdixon, I tried it an viola
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great !!
  
 Well, i can't help with that, but i think you should check @tf1216 advice here, when this works i think your good to go.
  
 if the led lights is responding correctly, then everything is working fine and i don't think there is a need to update unless you face any problem..
  


tf1216 said:


> Hi Narcissus,
> 
> Try searching for the "Audio MIDI Setup" in the Finder.  The output device needs to be set to the iFi device.


----------



## Narcissus

tf1216 said:


> Hi Narcissus,
> 
> Try searching for the "Audio MIDI Setup" in the Finder.  The output device needs to be set to the iFi device.




Thanks, just did that I can see the Ifi device under utilities> audio midi setup > Ifi AMR ... Selected to "use this device for sound output"


----------



## Solarium

Just a newb question, having the RCA out with "direct mode" to an external amp, using 2 heaphones 1 connected to the external amp and another connected directly to the iDSD, simultaneously... does that degrade the SQ at all? (my guess is no)
  
 Also, still debating between using the crack w/ speedball and an iCAN SE. I like the crack but the tubey sound doesn't go well with my EDM's. Can anyone who owns (or owned) both share any experiences?


----------



## gc335

Does anyone know how to connect the iDSD to an android based DAP or iPhone via USB without using those really short OTG cables?
  
 Unless you plan on stacking with an OTG cable the it seems like using the male Type A usb isn't that helpful and makes things more complicated.  I'm not sure what the rationale was.  With my HA-2 basically any charging cable worked.


----------



## osiris1

gc335 said:


> Does anyone know how to connect the iDSD to an android based DAP or iPhone via USB without using those really short OTG cables?


 
 use a really long one?


----------



## gc335

osiris1 said:


> use a really long one?




Do you know where I could get one?


----------



## osiris1

gc335 said:


> Do you know where I could get one?


 
 nope... maybe others have an inclination. I don't normally use my phone for music.


----------



## gc335

osiris1 said:


> nope... maybe others have an inclination. I don't normally use my phone for music.



That's the issue right now. I can't find anything longer than 6". My dap doesn't stack well. Hopefully someone else knows.


----------



## gc335

osiris1 said:


> nope... maybe others have an inclination. I don't normally use my phone for music.




I found one! Radio Shack has a 12" otg cable. I think I may be all set.


----------



## kingdixon

gc335 said:


> That's the issue right now. I can't find anything longer than 6". My dap doesn't stack well. Hopefully someone else knows.





Why not try the short otg cable + male to female usb extender cable ?

I dont know if that would work or no, but its worth a try ..


----------



## gc335

kingdixon said:


> Why not try the short otg cable + male to female usb extender cable ?
> 
> I dont know if that would work or no, but its worth a try ..


 
 That's a possibility.  I did think of that but I'm trying to limit the amount of wires and connection points.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't 
 help sound quality.  You'd think a standard female USB would have worked.


----------



## gr8soundz

gc335 said:


> That's a possibility.  I did think of that but I'm trying to limit the amount of wires and connection points.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't
> help sound quality.  You'd think a standard female USB would have worked.


 
  
 The longer the usb cable, connection points aside, the more usb handshake issues you may have. Why not connect the Micro's included blue cable to the shorter otg cable?


----------



## gc335

gr8soundz said:


> The longer the usb cable, connection points aside, the more usb handshake issues you may have. Why not connect the Micro's included blue cable to the shorter otg cable?



I ordered a 12 inch otg cable. That'll do the trick. Thanks for the suggestion. If I didn't find the other one I'd try that.


----------



## Nirvana1000

Does anyone know if the ipod classic (7th generation) is compatible with this DAC ?


----------



## ClieOS

nirvana1000 said:


> Does anyone know if the ipod classic (7th generation) is compatible with this DAC ?


 
  
 That will be a definite 'no'.
  
 For micro iDSD to acts as a DAC, the Apple product must have iOS7 and above or MacOS. That means only iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad, and any of Apple's PC.


----------



## Nirvana1000

clieos said:


> That will be a definite 'no'.
> 
> For micro iDSD to acts as a DAC, the Apple product must have iOS7 and above or MacOS. That means only iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad, and any of Apple's PC.



Ok thanks.So it looks like the ipod classic is becoming (or is already)obsolete when it comes to compatibility with DACS.


----------



## ClieOS

nirvana1000 said:


> Ok thanks.So it looks like the ipod classic is becoming (or is already)obsolete when it comes to compatibility with DACS.


 
  
 Not necessarily. While iDSD won't work with iPod Classic directly, there are other DAC that will. What you are looking for is those with Apple MFi certification (which allows them to use a special MFi chip inside that will enable them to work with iPod Classic). I'll suggest you take a look at Oppo HA-2., While technically not as strong as micro iDSD, it is still an excellent DAC/amp of its own and it will work with iPod Classic.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@ClieOS, do you mind if I pester you with a question? I have an OTG connection from my LG G3 running Neutron and the Micro. My question is, do applications such as Neutron do a digital conversion first anyway so really I'm simply using the Micro to reconvert what Neutron has done? I'm not sure that makes sense how I asked the question, hopefully it does. It might be that all I'm really using is the amp section in the Micro which would be somewhat of a shame as I believe the DAC implementation is the stronger of the two systems in the Micro. I'm not entirely sure how Neutron functions internally, but I believe it does all the DA conversion in software.


----------



## Whitigir

Why don't you try bother app like Poweramp alpha ? And see if there would be much of the differences. Anyways, I believe OTG is all about Data transportation and nothing analog


----------



## ClieOS

sonic defender said:


> @ClieOS, do you mind if I pester you with a question? I have an OTG connection from my LG G3 running Neutron and the Micro. My question is, do applications such as Neutron do a digital conversion first anyway so really I'm simply using the Micro to reconvert what Neutron has done? I'm not sure that makes sense how I asked the question, hopefully it does. It might be that all I'm really using is the amp section in the Micro which would be somewhat of a shame as I believe the DAC implementation is the stronger of the two systems in the Micro. I'm not entirely sure how Neutron functions internally, but I believe it does all the DA conversion in software.


 
  
 DAC chip only understands two kind of languages, either PCM (just about every DAC) or DSD (most of the higher end one). While DSD music is usually stored in its native format, PCM music is usually compressed into other more space-saving formats like MP3 or FLAC. So what the music apps do is to decode (decompress) those formats back to their native PCM format and sending the data to the DAC chip in the language it understands. What Neutron does is no difference from any other apps, except the decoder it used is higher in quality than what built into the Android system. But the story doesn't end there - as Android is originally built with very limited hardware capability, Google decided to use a pretty basic resampler audio driver to force all audio output to 16/44.1 (in order to make their job easier) and that process can degrades SQ noticeably. So early days Android doesn't have great SQ because of both poor decoder as well as the resampler. These days however, many manufacturer replace the decoder as well as the resampler with their own, higher quality counterparts, and therefore we have observed better SQ on Android overall. That's why Neutron tends to have more noticeable effect on older gears but not as much on newer gears, as many newer gears already have optimization in place and the decoder they used are good enough that Neutron doesn't show much advantage over. That being said, what Neutron doesn't do is the actual D-A conversion - that's the job for the DAC chip. Neutron does the pre-processing of the digital music into what the DAC can understand in order for the DAC chip to do the actual D-A conversion.
  
 So one thing you might notice is that Neutron doesn't bypass or replace the resampler. It won't be a problem if the resampler itself is good in quality, but it can affect the SQ if it isn't. That is where native USB DAC support comes in - apps like USB Audio Player Pro, Onkyo HR Player or HibuMusic have their own USB DAC driver built in that allows direct communication between the apps and the DAC, skipping the resampler out and thus eliminating a potential problem of SQ degradation. Neutron actually has this function built-in as well, but it is very buggy and usually only works well with lower end, more basic DAC chips.
  
 Many music apps like old poweramp doesn't actually have its decoder at all. They rely totally on what the Android system supplies. Then you have something like poweramp alpha that trying to do what Neutron has been doing by using their own internal decoder. But to really get the best out of the USB DAC, you really need an app that has native USB DAC driver support.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@ClieOS thank you very much for the detailed explanation, and that confirms the little knowledge I had up to this point. So Neutron pre-stages the digital stream for the SoC processing, in my case the Snapdragon 801. So it might be worth me getting the Onkyo HF Player instead. Interesting and I think I will do so. For programs with USB DAC driver support do you have a preference, or as I suspect most will be very similar overall and just UI distinguishing them? Thanks again.


----------



## ClieOS

sonic defender said:


> @ClieOS thank you very much for the detailed explanation, and that confirms the little knowledge I had up to this point. So Neutron pre-stages the digital stream for the SoC processing, in my case the Snapdragon 801. So it might be worth me getting the Onkyo HF Player instead. Interesting and I think I will do so. For programs with USB DAC driver support do you have a preference, or as I suspect most will be very similar overall and just UI distinguishing them? Thanks again.


 
  
 I have tried just about every music apps that have USB DAC support. My preference goes to UAPP because it is more customizable. HF Player does however offer an easier to use UI as well as a better EQ system, though I don't use EQ enough to bother. All of these apps are aiming on the audiophiles user so they all do a pretty good job. I don't really notice any noticeable SQ difference between them, but more of the difference in feature.


----------



## Shlonglor

Just picked one up and loving it so far.
  
 Is there a simple way to make it so it only plays through the RCA or headphone jack? It'd be a shame to have to disconnect the cables whenever I want headphones only... 
 My last amp had a switch so I kind of assumed this'd have one also.


----------



## gr8soundz

shlonglor said:


> Just picked one up and loving it so far.
> 
> Is there a simple way to make it so it only plays through the RCA or headphone jack? It'd be a shame to have to disconnect the cables whenever I want headphones only...
> My last amp had a switch so I kind of assumed this'd have one also.


 
 Despite all the Micro's switches, none of them can disable any of the outputs (the digital in/out is auto sensing as well). I find its easiest to just unplug the headphone jack if needed when using multiple outputs. 
  
 I have another amp (or sometimes powered speakers) connected to the RCAs and just turn the amp/speakers off when not in use. Are you using passive speakers (or a similar device) with the RCA out?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Well, it is certainly easier to use the Micro with Onkyo HF Player which I bought today. The second I launched HF Player with the Micro attached it asked right away to use this as the default USB device. I like that, no screwing around. I am sort of familiar with HF Player as it is similar to the stock player that I had with my DP-X1.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Well, it is certainly easier to use the Micro with Onkyo HF Player which I bought today. The second I launched HF Player with the Micro attached it asked right away to use this as the default USB device. I like that, no screwing around. I am sort of familiar with HF Player as it is similar to the stock player that I had with my DP-X1.




Exactly, the hf player is recommended by IFI . How do you like it so far ?


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Exactly, the hf player is recommended by IFI
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It is very nice, as I said, and as you know, it is similar to the stock player from the DP-X1 I think. I'm starting to think I might like a TH X00 with the Micro, or maybe an original D7000.


----------



## Shlonglor

gr8soundz said:


> Despite all the Micro's switches, none of them can disable any of the outputs (the digital in/out is auto sensing as well). I find its easiest to just unplug the headphone jack if needed when using multiple outputs.
> 
> I have another amp (or sometimes powered speakers) connected to the RCAs and just turn the amp/speakers off when not in use. Are you using passive speakers (or a similar device) with the RCA out?


 
 Powered, but their switches are far away at the back. Considered connecting their powers to a closer switch ...


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> It is very nice, as I said, and as you know, it is similar to the stock player from the DP-X1 I think. I'm starting to think I might like a TH X00 with the Micro, or maybe an original D7000.




I love my 900 with it, and I see no reason why those mentioned above wouldn't bring you the best sonical experiences


----------



## ClieOS

shlonglor said:


> Just picked one up and loving it so far.
> 
> Is there a simple way to make it so it only plays through the RCA or headphone jack? It'd be a shame to have to disconnect the cables whenever I want headphones only...
> My last amp had a switch so I kind of assumed this'd have one also.


 
  
 If you have the micro iDSD permanently connected on the RCA, I'll suggest you get a RCA switch, which usually comes in the form of AV selector.


----------



## CFGamescape

If running only the DAC section of the iDSD, does it matter if it's in battery or powered-USB mode?


----------



## ClieOS

cfgamescape said:


> If running only the DAC section of the iDSD, does it matter if it's in battery or powered-USB mode?


 
  
 Doesn't matter as It can be run both ways.


----------



## CFGamescape

clieos said:


> Doesn't matter as It can be run both ways.


 
 Understand that, but there's been a few folks saying in this thread it'll sound better in USB-powered mode. I assume it's in reference to the amp section only, though.


----------



## mbusby

nirvana1000 said:


> Ok thanks.So it looks like the ipod classic is becoming (or is already)obsolete when it comes to compatibility with DACS.


 
  
 Another option is the Pure I-20 dock,which will allow you to connect to the iDsd Micro via optical or coax.


----------



## LoryWiv

With apologies for my newbie-ness: My OEM blue USB cable for digital input to the iDSD Micro appears to have stopped working after gradually fitting less securely. it may be my PC input but no success with the other USB port.on PC either, so I need a replacement cable. I am not certain what type of replacement cable to order...is the standard USB-A from PC to an OTG on the Micro correct? I've searched this forum but still not entirely sure as the Micro. socket is larger than those I've previously encountered on other devices, so a pointer to the correct replacement cable would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## gr8soundz

If you're just connecting to PC, any usb extension cable will also work.
  
 You only need an otg cable for connecting to android.


----------



## technobear

lorywiv said:


> With apologies for my newbie-ness: My OEM blue USB cable for digital input to the iDSD Micro appears to have stopped working after gradually fitting less securely. it may be my PC input but no success with the other USB port.on PC either, so I need a replacement cable. I am not certain what type of replacement cable to order...is the standard USB-A from PC to an OTG on the Micro correct? I've searched this forum but still not entirely sure as the Micro. socket is larger than those I've previously encountered on other devices, so a pointer to the correct replacement cable would be appreciated. Thanks!




OTG allows a USB port which is normally a client, to become a host all the while the OTG cable is connected. It is only currently used by some Android Tablets and Smartphones.

The USB ports on your PC are all host ports. Do not use an OTG cable with them.

If you are the fist owner of the iDSD, contact your dealer. Otherwise open a support ticket with iFi Audio:

http://support.ifi-audio.com/

Some of us have modded the blue cable by wrapping tape around the big end so that it fits more securely into the iDSD and cannot wobble around.

Alternatively you could use the adaptor that coms with the iDSD and any other USB cable you have to hand (but noting that quality USB cables do sound better).


----------



## ClieOS

lorywiv said:


> With apologies for my newbie-ness: My OEM blue USB cable for digital input to the iDSD Micro appears to have stopped working after gradually fitting less securely. it may be my PC input but no success with the other USB port.on PC either, so I need a replacement cable. I am not certain what type of replacement cable to order...is the standard USB-A from PC to an OTG on the Micro correct? I've searched this forum but still not entirely sure as the Micro. socket is larger than those I've previously encountered on other devices, so a pointer to the correct replacement cable would be appreciated. Thanks!


 
  
 As @gr8soundz, you need an USB extension cable, which is what the blue cable iFi included in the package is (and as mentioned, it is not an OTG cable). You can get pretty good quality one from Monoprice without paying big bucks. Also, whether it is USB2.0 or USB3.0 doesn't matter. They will both work.


----------



## Nirvana1000

mbusby said:


> Another option is the Pure I-20 dock,which will allow you to connect to the iDsd Micro via optical or coax.



I looked on amazon and it says currently not available.


----------



## RamblerBoy

what is the output impedance of this dac/amp? i read that it is <1 but is there an exact value?
 and does anyone know its max output power at 600 ohms?


----------



## ClieOS

ramblerboy said:


> what is the output impedance of this dac/amp? i read that it is <1 but is there an exact value?
> and does anyone know its max output power at 600 ohms?


 
  
 Let visit some old posts:
  


ifi audio said:


> ...
> iEMatch - Output Impedances
> 
> Off                             < 1 Ohm
> ...


 
   
 The number, based on my own measurement and calculation are 0.24ohm,  4.1ohm and 1.1ohm. So they pretty much line up with the official numbers.
  
 Quote:


technobear said:


> According to the user manual, 8 Volts is available in Turbo mode.
> 
> 8 X 8 / 600 = 0.106 = 106 mW
> 
> ...


----------



## RamblerBoy

clieos said:


> Let visit some old posts:




Thank you so much.


----------



## HotIce

clieos said:


> Let visit some old posts:



 
Typically waveform external physical effects are based on RMS values, so given those voltages are peak, those powers will have to be cut by half, to get their RMS value for SPL measures.
Still pretty darn loud, a 8V peak output! 
An experiment I always wanted to try, but my laziness always prevented me  , is to connect my oscilloscope to my HP, in Vmax capture mode, and see what kind of values I grab, at my typical listening volumes and kind of music.


----------



## ClieOS

hotice said:


> clieos said:
> 
> 
> > Let visit some old posts:
> ...


 
  
 Actually I think it might not be Vpp but Vrms. I just did a very simple test with some dummy 16 ohm resistors - max volume on turbo mode and the resistors heat up enough to burn my fingers in a few seconds (would have burnt out in a few more seconds as I already able to smell the burning fume). For the few seconds I had, I measured just over 5Vrms, so it will be at least 14Vpp. I recalled iFi mentioned there is a protection circuit that will kick in when the output is too high, which could very well be my case here. If my dummy load is higher in impedance, it could very well be 8Vrms.
  
 Regardless, it kind of scares me for a few seconds there as the claimed 4W output isn't something to kid around.


----------



## Whitigir

clieos said:


> Actually I think it might not be Vpp but Vrms. I just did a very simple test with some dummy 16 ohm resistors - max volume on turbo mode and the resistors heat up enough to burn my fingers in a few seconds (would have burnt out in a few more seconds as I already able to smell the burning fume). For the few seconds I had, I measured just over 5Vrms, so it will be at least 14Vpp. I recalled iFi mentioned there is a protection circuit that will kick in when the output is too high, which could very well be my case here. If my dummy load is higher in impedance, it could very well be 8Vrms.
> 
> Regardless, it kind of scares me for a few seconds there as the claimed 4W output isn't something to kid around.




Holy heck ! Thanks for the perfect experiments , and provided results.


----------



## LoryWiv

clieos said:


> As @gr8soundz, you need an USB extension cable, which is what the blue cable iFi included in the package is (and as mentioned, it is not an OTG cable). You can get pretty good quality one from Monoprice without paying big bucks. Also, whether it is USB2.0 or USB3.0 doesn't matter. They will both work.


 
 Got it! Thanks for the helpful replies *ClieOS, gr8sounds and technobear.*


----------



## The Walrus

h1f1add1cted said:


> I got a 2nd hand Samsung S4 (120 bucks) + Anker 7200 mAh Samsung S4 battery + back cover (40 bucks) + 90° angled USB OTG cable (4 bucks) and bought the app USB Audio Player PRO (9 bucks) to get ~ 40 hours non-stop rock-solid, gapless, bit-perfect USB Audio source for the micro iDSD.


 


 I bought a second hand S4 and my Anker 7200 mAh battery is on its way   At the moment I'm using the stock battery, but using USB Audio Player PRO, it lasts barely 2,5 - 3 hours. I have disabled every unnecessary app. Is this normal? I was expecting at least 5 - 6 hours of battery life.


----------



## Sonic Defender

the walrus said:


> I bought a second hand S4 and my Anker 7200 mAh battery is on its way   At the moment I'm using the stock battery, but using USB Audio Player PRO, it lasts barely 2,5 - 3 hours. I have disabled every unnecessary app. Is this normal? I was expecting at least 5 - 6 hours of battery life.


 
 I find the Micro draws from my G3's battery as well. I find that somewhat counter intuitive as I believe I use the Micro in battery mode by turning it on first. I assumed that in doing so the draw from the phones battery would be minimal, but it does appear to hit it moderately hard. Not a real issue for me, but still surprising. Maybe I'm missing something?
  
 I just today picked up a TH 600 to use with the Micro as my wired headphone. Should be a nice meaty combination and I am assuming the Micro will be able to do the Fostex justice.


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, micro IDSD draw the charge from supported devices . It didn't draw from my zx2 though


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Yeah, micro IDSD draw the charge from supported devices
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe it didn't like your ZX2.


----------



## technobear

sonic defender said:


> the walrus said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a second hand S4 and my Anker 7200 mAh battery is on its way   At the moment I'm using the stock battery, but using USB Audio Player PRO, it lasts barely 2,5 - 3 hours. I have disabled every unnecessary app. Is this normal? I was expecting at least 5 - 6 hours of battery life.
> ...




Are you guys using Turbo mode by any chance? That will cause current draw even in battery mode as the battery alone is not enough for Turbo mode.

Basically it was envisaged that Turbo mode would only really be needed when listening at home as most people wouldn't be using HE-6 on the bus or train. For portable use, try a more efficient headphone and switch your iDSD to Eco mode.


----------



## technobear

In other news, you may have noticed something new in my sig. Then again you probably have better things to do than read my sig. It has however changed.

Yes, the Gemini has landed. Thank you ebay.

This evening I have spent several hugely entertaining hours comparing it to the 1.5m of Kimber USB that I normally use.

The Gemini is a very good cable. Unfortunately, the Kimber is also a very good cable. So good that I can find no audible difference whatsoever between them.

Now it could be that the iPurifier2 does such a great job (and it does - that much is easy to hear) that the difference between the cables is moot. I'm out of time tonight but tomorrow, I'll compare the cables without the iPurifier2.

So far, I'm thinking if you already have an iPurifier2 and a decent USB cable, adding the Gemini may leave you wondering what the fuss was all about. I'm glad I didn't pay full price for it because right now I'm thinking I probably wasted £120.

It sure does look pretty though. It is a superb piece of audiofool jewellery.

Of course those with more expensive headphones may be able to hear more (but I'm not betting on that having heard quite a few more expensive headphones).

More tomorrow.

ps. some of you may have sigs hidden so here it is:

ifi Audio Gemini >> iPurifier2 >> micro iDSD >> micro iCAN >> beyerdynamic T1


----------



## Sonic Defender

technobear said:


> Are you guys using Turbo mode by any chance? That will cause current draw even in battery mode as the battery alone is not enough for Turbo mode.
> 
> Basically it was envisaged that Turbo mode would only really be needed when listening at home as most people wouldn't be using HE-6 on the bus or train. For portable use, try a more efficient headphone and switch your iDSD to Eco mode.


 
 I'm using normal mode. I found in Eco mode I had the volume dial at about 5 oclock with my H7.


----------



## technobear

sonic defender said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Are you guys using Turbo mode by any chance? That will cause current draw even in battery mode as the battery alone is not enough for Turbo mode.
> ...




That isn't actually a problem. The volume knob is just a gain control. It doesn't matter if it's full on.


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> Maybe it didn't like your ZX2.


 
  
 Are you guys running firmware 5.10B on the Micro? Its supposed to stop the Micro from charging/draining portable devices.


----------



## marcus1

Did you ever get a chance to try the Uptone Regen instead of the iPurifier2 in your setup?
  
 Quote:


technobear said:


> In other news, you may have noticed something new in my sig. Then again you probably have better things to do than read my sig. It has however changed.
> 
> Yes, the Gemini has landed. Thank you ebay.
> 
> ...


----------



## CFGamescape

technobear said:


> In other news, you may have noticed something new in my sig. Then again you probably have better things to do than read my sig. It has however changed.
> 
> Yes, the Gemini has landed. Thank you ebay.
> 
> ...


 

 I think it helps (how much, I don't know) to have the power leg of the Gemini either plugged into a separate source (e.g., linear power supply) or into the power-only input of say the micro / nano iUSB3.0. The latter is how my Gemini is used: PC > standard USB cable > iUSB3.0 > Gemini > Gustard U12 > coax cable > Schiit Bifrost MB > Schiit Lyr 2 > Ether C. As a whole, I think the system sounds really good.
  
 It kind of defeats the purpose of having a split cable but with both the power and data plugged into your computer.
  
 However, I can't say that one component makes a difference or not. I'm not one to do extensive A/B testing. I do, however, like having audio jewelry, as you say .


----------



## gr8soundz

technobear said:


> In other news, you may have noticed something new in my sig. Then again you probably have better things to do than read my sig. It has however changed.
> 
> Yes, the Gemini has landed. Thank you ebay.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got the Mercury cable since I don't use an iUSB. Think my usb is already fairly clean and felt the Gemini was (is) too expensive. Still waiting for type A iP2 but also easier to connect one usb end (rather than two).
  
 The Mercury made a nice improvement in the sound and solved some usb handshake problems too.
  
 Btw, how do you like the T1 with the iDSD Micro? I'm thinking of getting a T1.2 (instead of an HD800S) but don't have a better amp than the iDSD yet.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Yah, this thing is killing my phones battery which makes no sense, it has it's own damn battery. I just flashed the firmware with the smartphone specific version that ifi recommends. I even turn my phone's screen off most of the time and I get less than an hour before I get a warning that my phone's battery is down to 15% and that is starting from virtually a full charge. I also have WiFi and Bluetooth turned off as well as having removed as many apps as possible. It almost seems worse since I did the firmware upgrade. My phone is new by the way so the battery should be in pretty good shape and I find with my normal low use I get about 48 hours without needing to charge.


----------



## CFGamescape

sonic defender said:


> Yah, this thing is killing my phones battery which makes no sense, it has it's own damn battery. I just flashed the firmware with the smartphone specific version that ifi recommends. I even turn my phone's screen off most of the time and I get less than an hour before I get a warning that my phone's battery is down to 15% and that is starting from virtually a full charge. I also have WiFi and Bluetooth turned off as well as having removed as many apps as possible. It almost seems worse since I did the firmware upgrade. My phone is new by the way so the battery should be in pretty good shape and I find with my normal low use I get about 48 hours without needing to charge.




Are you using the firmware specifically to address the battery being drained? 5.1b or something.


----------



## Sonic Defender

cfgamescape said:


> Are you using the firmware specifically to address the battery being drained? 5.1b or something.


 
 That's the one, flashed about an hour ago.


----------



## LoryWiv

clieos said:


> As @gr8soundz, you need an USB extension cable, which is what the blue cable iFi included in the package is (and as mentioned, it is not an OTG cable). You can get pretty good quality one from Monoprice without paying big bucks. Also, whether it is USB2.0 or USB3.0 doesn't matter. They will both work.


 

 Thanks again, *ClieOs *and* gr8Osunds* (and *TechnoBear*). I am still not certain what the plug type that goes into Micro digital input is. It does not appear to be one of the standard usb types I am familiar with. Feeling pretty lame right now...but can you clarify or point me to a MonoPrice one that will work? Again, thanks for the help.


----------



## networkn

So where did you guys buy your iDSD? Was it cheaper some places than others? Seems the cheapest I can find is $499.


----------



## ClieOS

the walrus said:


> I bought a second hand S4 and my Anker 7200 mAh battery is on its way   At the moment I'm using the stock battery, but using USB Audio Player PRO, it lasts barely 2,5 - 3 hours. I have disabled every unnecessary app. Is this normal? I was expecting at least 5 - 6 hours of battery life.


 
  
 I assume you did turn on the micro iDSD before connecting it to the S4?


----------



## gr8soundz

lorywiv said:


> Thanks again, *ClieOs *and* gr8Osunds* (and *TechnoBear*). I am still not certain what the plug type that goes into Micro digital input is. It does not appear to be one of the standard usb types I am familiar with. Feeling pretty lame right now...but can you clarify or point me to a MonoPrice one that will work? Again, thanks for the help.


 
  
 Its actually just a regular usb plug; same type that connects to any computer. Think of the Micro as having a little Dragonfly or Geek Out connector 'inside' of it. Only difference is the Micro's is recessed. In fact, if you removed the Micro's aluminum shell, it might be able to connect directly to some usb ports (assuming the RCAs didn't get in the way).
  
 IFi did this so that, when using an Apple CCK plug or android otg cable, the adapter does not protrude all the way out. Benefit is never worrying about bending or breaking the usb tip but, initially, it is strange trying to figure out exactly type it is. Looking at the blue cable and seeing it is just an extender helped too. After that, I got a couple of Monster usb extender cables. The female end has a good amount of covering so it makes for a snug, gapless fit with the Micro.
  
 EDIT: see for yourself.....


----------



## mbusby

networkn said:


> So where did you guys buy your iDSD? Was it cheaper some places than others? Seems the cheapest I can find is $499.


 
  
 Got mine from Todd the vinyl junkie...
  
http://www.ttvjaudio.com/


----------



## LoryWiv

gr8soundz said:


> Its actually just a regular usb plug; same type that connects to any computer. Think of the Micro as having a little Dragonfly or Geek Out connector 'inside' of it. Only difference is the Micro's is recessed. In fact, if you removed the Micro's aluminum shell, it might be able to connect directly to some usb ports (assuming the RCAs didn't get in the way).
> 
> IFi did this so that, when using an Apple CCK plug or android otg cable, the adapter does not protrude all the way out. Benefit is never worrying about bending or breaking the usb tip but, initially, it is strange trying to figure out exactly type it is. Looking at the blue cable and seeing it is just an extender helped too. After that, I got a couple of Monster usb extender cables. The female end has a good amount of covering so it makes for a snug, gapless fit with the Micro.
> 
> EDIT: see for yourself.....


 
  
 Wow, who knew? Naked iDSD Micro reveal. Seriously very helpful, man...I've relooked and sure enough, standard USB in a larger hosing....don't I feel foolish.
 Appreciate your patience and the risque photo reveal. Cheers, and thanks, *gr8soundz*!


----------



## gr8soundz

Glad I could help. Others helped me here when I started a couple years ago.
  
 I didn't take apart my Micro though. That pic is one I saved from an article I found last year. Can't find/remember the exact link otherwise I'd post it.


----------



## Narcissus

Can anyone comment on using Audirvana +2 on the iDSD and what settings on Audirvana they find optimal?


----------



## technobear

marcus1 said:


> Did you ever get a chance to try the Uptone Regen instead of the iPurifier2 in your setup?




No, sorry. I was thinking about ordering a REGEN when iFi revealed the iPurifier2. As the latter is sold and supported in the UK, has a superior specification and is cheaper, well...


----------



## The Walrus

clieos said:


> I assume you did turn on the micro iDSD before connecting it to the S4?


 
 Yep. Same thing happens with my A17, I never had more than 4 hours of playback.


----------



## technobear

cfgamescape said:


> I think it helps (how much, I don't know) to have the power leg of the Gemini either plugged into a separate source (e.g., linear power supply) or into the power-only input of say the micro / nano iUSB3.0. The latter is how my Gemini is used: PC > standard USB cable > iUSB3.0 > Gemini > Gustard U12 > coax cable > Schiit Bifrost MB > Schiit Lyr 2 > Ether C. As a whole, I think the system sounds really good.
> 
> It kind of defeats the purpose of having a split cable but with both the power and data plugged into your computer.




Yes, that's probably true but sadly I don't have an iUSBPower or an iUSB3.0 to try it with.

I may well pick up the nano iUSB3.0 at some point though.

I could ask iFi to loan me one but as I did that already for the micro iUSB3.0, that might be a bit cheeky.


----------



## ClieOS

gr8soundz said:


> Glad I could help. Others helped me here when I started a couple years ago.
> 
> I didn't take apart my Micro though. That pic is one I saved from an article I found last year. Can't find/remember the exact link otherwise I'd post it.


 
  
 Yep, I have pictures from that review as well. Don't try to take apart your iDSD though, as the switches are very delicate and can break easily when you remove the PCB out of the case just a tiny bit out of alignment. I recall from picture that the guy who took his iDSD apart broke one of the switch.
  


the walrus said:


> Yep. Same thing happens with my A17, I never had more than 4 hours of playback.


 

 That will be odd as I have definitely gotten more than 4 hours out of my A15+iDSD combo. Same goes for my Xperia Z3+ (as well as Z2) with iDSD.


----------



## Whitigir

My note 4 and micro IDSD lasted me 5-6 hours ?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Battery life testing update. Okay, so perhaps the firmware flash didn't work right away, or more likely something else was occurring on the phone that I was unaware of. In any case, last night I tested by listening for a solid hour at my regular volume in normal mode and after the hour the phone went from 100% battery to 97% battery. Since being idle for about 9.5 hours the phones battery went down to 90% so things are fine it seems. I am not sure what exactly caused that one significant drain event, but hopefully it was an anomaly. It is going to be a very long wait for the TH 600 to arrive from Texas, I'm assuming about 10 days to actually reach me. Damn I hate waiting.


----------



## ClieOS

sonic defender said:


> Battery life testing update. Okay, so perhaps the firmware flash didn't work right away, or more likely something else was occurring on the phone that I was unaware of. In any case, last night I tested by listening for a solid hour at my regular volume in normal mode and after the hour the phone went from 100% battery to 97% battery. Since being idle for about 9.5 hours the phones battery went down to 90% so things are fine it seems. I am not sure what exactly caused that one significant drain event, but hopefully it was an anomaly. It is going to be a very long wait for the TH 600 to arrive from Texas, I'm assuming about 10 days to actually reach me. Damn I hate waiting.


 
  
 Yep, I just did a battery test as well - Xperia Z3+ with 97% + micro iDSD playing for almost a hour and 50 minutes now and and Z3+ battery goes down to 83%, which is pretty normal for Z3+ as it doesn't really have a great battery life to begin with. iDSD is running on the latest 5.1 firmware.


----------



## The Walrus

clieos said:


> Yep, I just did a battery test as well - Xperia Z3+ with 97% + micro iDSD playing for almost a hour and 50 minutes now and and Z3+ battery goes down to 83%, which is pretty normal for Z3+ as it doesn't really have a great battery life to begin with. iDSD is running on the latest 5.1 firmware.


 
 Since the phone I'm using now is old, it might be the battery wear, so I'll wait for the new battery and will do another test. The firmware I'm using is 5.1b Shall I witch to 5.1?
 Also, maybe unrelated but sometimes I'm losing a split second of the beginning of the first songs in the playlist. Does it happen to anyone?


----------



## gr8soundz

clieos said:


> Yep, I have pictures from that review as well. Don't try to take apart your iDSD though, as the switches are very delicate and can break easily when you remove the PCB out of the case just a tiny bit out of alignment. I recall from picture that the guy who took his iDSD apart broke one of the switch.


 
  
 I would never try taking mine apart. Just didn't want to take credit for someone else's bravery. Searched again but still can't find that review; perhaps its no longer up.
  


sonic defender said:


> Battery life testing update. Okay, so perhaps the firmware flash didn't work right away, or more likely something else was occurring on the phone that I was unaware of. In any case, last night I tested by listening for a solid hour at my regular volume in normal mode and after the hour the phone went from 100% battery to 97% battery. Since being idle for about 9.5 hours the phones battery went down to 90% so things are fine it seems. I am not sure what exactly caused that one significant drain event, but hopefully it was an anomaly. It is going to be a very long wait for the TH 600 to arrive from Texas, I'm assuming about 10 days to actually reach me. Damn I hate waiting.


 
  
 IFi's instructions for the firmware update says to do it a second time if needed. Also, be sure to disconnect and turn the Micro off/on afterwards. I think the only way to see which version it has is via the driver on a PC (or Mac).
  


the walrus said:


> Since the phone I'm using now is old, it might be the battery wear, so I'll wait for the new battery and will do another test. The firmware I'm using is 5.1b Shall I witch to 5.1?
> Also, maybe unrelated but sometimes I'm losing a split second of the beginning of the first songs in the playlist. Does it happen to anyone?


 
  
 Recommend staying with 5.10B for portable use. IFi made it specifically for the iDSD Micro after requests from users here. No guarantee (or support) that version B will work will for all devices but it may your best bet.
  
 I'm currently using the regular 5.10 since my Micro pretty much stays on a desktop.


----------



## ClieOS

the walrus said:


> Since the phone I'm using now is old, it might be the battery wear, so I'll wait for the new battery and will do another test.* The firmware I'm using is 5.1b Shall I witch to 5.1?*
> Also, maybe unrelated but sometimes I'm losing a split second of the beginning of the first songs in the playlist. Does it happen to anyone?


 
  
 5.1B should be fine if you use smartphone as source and like to pause music from time to time. The only difference on using 5.1 is that, when you use smartphone as source, you need to turn off iDSD manually every time you take a long pause so iDSD won't think it is on sleep mode and then try to draw power from the smartphone.
  
 No, never experience any losing of the beginning of first song, but that could point to a buffer issue though.


----------



## technobear

the walrus said:


> Also, maybe unrelated but sometimes I'm losing a split second of the beginning of the first songs in the playlist. Does it happen to anyone?




This means your iDSD has entered sleep mode. It takes half a second to wake up.


----------



## Engell

technobear said:


> This means your iDSD has entered sleep mode. It takes half a second to wake up.


 
  
 Mine have this feature/problem as well, its not sleep mode, I loose half a second of playback happens after just 10 seconds of no data on the USB. Got some lame answer from ifi that i could just run a program in the background that would output empty audio constantly. There is not indication on the device or any of the programs that it is in some kind of USB off mode.
  
 this has happened with all the firmwares i have tried so far, and both on PC and Phone


----------



## Sonic Defender

So did a little further testing and with a half hour of music playing the battery on my phone went down by 3%. The same time period with nothing happening on the phone and the screen off (I also play my music with the screen off) the battery on my phone went down by only 1% so clearly the Micro will more or less triple the hit to your phone battery even when it is playing in battery mode (meaning turning the Micro on first before the OTG connection is made). I assume this is not actually the Micro drawing power but simply what happens when you play music and the USB out circuitry is engaged so this does make sense. I guess my next little test will be to play music for half and hour with no OTG functionality and see how much the battery drops. Anyway, it doesn't appear to be a significant issue, just the reality of using OTG on the phone.


----------



## technobear

engell said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > This means your iDSD has entered sleep mode. It takes half a second to wake up.
> ...




This could be power management on the PC putting USB ports into a low power state when they go quiet. I've seen this mentioned elsewhere along with details of how to stop it happening. 

It went something like this:

> Computer Management > Device Manager > Universal Serial Bus Controllers > Generic USB Hub

You will have several Generic USB Hubs and you need to find the one that your DAC is attached to or you could do all of them.

> Generic USB Hub > Right-Click > Properties > Power Management > Untick the relevant box


----------



## The Walrus

engell said:


> Mine have this feature/problem as well, its not sleep mode, I loose half a second of playback happens after just 10 seconds of no data on the USB. Got some lame answer from ifi that i could just run a program in the background that would output empty audio constantly. There is not indication on the device or any of the programs that it is in some kind of USB off mode.
> 
> this has happened with all the firmwares i have tried so far, and both on PC and Phone


 
 That's interesting. I experience this only at the beginning of the first song. Not a glitch after that. Even if I pause the song, wait for a minute then resume, no problem. Again with PC,no problem. Just the beginning of the first song with phone or Sony A17 Strange...


----------



## Engell

technobear said:


> > Computer Management > Device Manager > Universal Serial Bus Controllers > Generic USB Hub
> 
> You will have several Generic USB Hubs and you need to find the one that your DAC is attached to or you could do all of them.
> 
> > Generic USB Hub > Right-Click > Properties > Power Management > Untick the relevant box


 
  
 Already did this and it doesn't help, could just disable power saving in general but that is pretty suicidal on a laptop.
  
 Basically it should be the Drivers provided by iFi that tells the PC that it is not allowed to sleep that port/device , i know this is also an issue on some onboard pc soundcards where people have found registry hacks disable the feature, but it requires that the driver has some kind of awareness in regards to sleep modes to activate/deactivate it


----------



## networkn

OK well I was about to order the Ifi Micro DSD from Amazon (My preferred supplier) when I realized I don't get prime shipping. $35 for shipping, but in the suggested for you area was the Chord Mojo and reviews for this are pretty good as well, but is $599 and free shipping. 
  
 As best I can tell it's probably pretty good for my CANS (T1 and HD650), but the IFI is brighter sounding, and the IFI has better battery life. The Chord is MUCH smaller, and has worse battery life. 
  
  
 Anyone compared the two and can make a commnt?
  
 Was surprised I couldn't find a better deal than $499 on the IFI, but 2 places I emailed didn't even respond!


----------



## Whitigir

I prefer micro IDSD over the Mojo. To my preferences, the warmth, the dynamic, soundstage on the IDSD micro is better


----------



## networkn

Is MusicDirect.com a reasonable place to purchase from?


----------



## Whitigir

networkn said:


> Is MusicDirect.com a reasonable place to purchase from?




I never tried them, but have you tried 

http://www.ttvjaudio.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Idsd


----------



## networkn

whitigir said:


> I never tried them, but have you tried
> 
> http://www.ttvjaudio.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Idsd


 
  
 So, unfortunately they didn't respond to my email.


----------



## Whitigir

networkn said:


> So, unfortunately they didn't respond to my email.




Try your music direct then, as long as you pay by credit card or Paypal, you are safe


----------



## HotIce

networkn said:


> Is MusicDirect.com a reasonable place to purchase from?



 
I got mine there. No issues with the purchase but I never had to deal with them as far as customer support.


----------



## gr8soundz

networkn said:


> Is MusicDirect.com a reasonable place to purchase from?


 
  
 MusicDirect is ok but their customer service could be better.
  
 Recommend checking out http://www.avataracoustics.com
 Got my Micro and iPower from them. iFi stuff is one of their specialties and better service imo.


----------



## Sonic Defender

If the price is the same, I would go Amazon as when they fulfill the order their return policy is excellent and they even pay return shipping. At least they have for me every time I needed to do a return.


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> If the price is the same, I would go Amazon as when they fulfill the order their return policy is excellent and they even pay return shipping. At least they have for me every time I needed to do a return.


 
  
 I got my Micro last year from Avatar Acoustics fulfilled by Amazon. They've since updated their site for direct orders.
  
 When I emailed iFi about the iPower, Avatar was one of the few places they recommended I contact. When I was ready to buy the 12V version last month, it isn't on Amazon and Music Direct still shows 4-6 weeks. Called Avatar and they had a few in stock. Placed my order and had the 12V iPower in a few days with free shipping.


----------



## Sonic Defender

gr8soundz said:


> I got my Micro last year from Avatar Acoustics fulfilled by Amazon. They've since updated their site for direct orders.
> 
> When I emailed iFi about the iPower, Avatar was one of the few places they recommended I contact. When I was ready to buy the 12V version last month, it isn't on Amazon and Music Direct still shows 4-6 weeks. Called Avatar and they had a few in stock. Placed my order and had the 12V iPower in a few days with free shipping.


 
 Wow, that is good. What type of return policy do they have, because that can be equally as important.


----------



## gr8soundz

Not sure of their direct site return policy (haven't had to return anything to them yet) but, as you mentioned before, anything fulfilled by amazon is the easiest to return. Avatar still has a good presence there (at least for iFi stuff that's been out for a while):
  
 https://www.amazon.com/s?marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&me=ANRTP1S6IG2HW&merchant=ANRTP1S6IG2HW&redirect=true
  
 IDSD goes in/out of stock for them but (unlike other amazon sellers) prices are what they should be. Some accessories are $5-10 less on their site though (like $99 for a Mercury cable).


----------



## gordec

I plan on ordering the 2nd run of the Liquid Carbon. If I do RCA to RCA feeding from the Micro, it is going to be inferior to XLR to XLR balanced input to output?


----------



## jhwalker

gr8soundz said:


> Not sure of their direct site return policy (haven't had to return anything to them yet) but, as you mentioned before, anything fulfilled by amazon is the easiest to return. Avatar still has a good presence there (at least for iFi stuff that's been out for a while):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/s?marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&me=ANRTP1S6IG2HW&merchant=ANRTP1S6IG2HW&redirect=true
> 
> IDSD goes in/out of stock for them but (unlike other amazon sellers) prices are what they should be. Some accessories are $5-10 less on their site though (like $99 for a Mercury cable).


 
 Avatar are great, excellent service and very easy to work with.  I would have no concern ordering from them again.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Just looked on Amazon and Avatar do not openly disclose their return policy forcing people to contact them to get details. In my experience that means you pay return shipping and they will likely charge a restocking fee. I don't know that as fact, I may contact them to see, but usually when your return policy is really customer focused you brag about it as opposed to placing a veil of secrecy over it. I hope I'm wrong, and even if I am right that doesn't have to matter to others as much as it does to me, but I do like to be able to try without getting hit by the dreaded restocking fee. I am going to contact them and ask.


----------



## Whitigir

gordec said:


> I plan on ordering the 2nd run of the Liquid Carbon. If I do RCA to RCA feeding from the Micro, it is going to be inferior to XLR to XLR balanced input to output?




RCA on the micro IDSD is the same as Single-ended, because they both share the same ground. So in a short answer to your question, Yes


----------



## networkn

jhwalker said:


> Avatar are great, excellent service and very easy to work with.  I would have no concern ordering from them again.


 
  
 I've contacted them and will see what happens.


----------



## Sonic Defender

networkn said:


> I've contacted them and will see what happens.


 
 I did as well, let's hope the policy is fair. I can handle paying return shipping, but not a restocking fee.


----------



## john57

sonic defender said:


> Just looked on Amazon and Avatar do not openly disclose their return policy forcing people to contact them to get details. In my experience that means you pay return shipping and they will likely charge a restocking fee. I don't know that as fact, I may contact them to see, but usually when your return policy is really customer focused you brag about it as opposed to placing a veil of secrecy over it. I hope I'm wrong, and even if I am right that doesn't have to matter to others as much as it does to me, but I do like to be able to try without getting hit by the dreaded restocking fee. I am going to contact them and ask.


 
 If a item sold by Amazon or Fulfilled by Amazon it follows Amazon customer policies as I understand it.


----------



## gr8soundz

john57 said:


> If a item sold by Amazon or Fulfilled by Amazon it follows Amazon customer policies as I understand it.


 
  
 For returns, yes.


----------



## howdy

> .


 
  


networkn said:


> OK well I was about to order the Ifi Micro DSD from Amazon (My preferred supplier) when I realized I don't get prime shipping. $35 for shipping, but in the suggested for you area was the Chord Mojo and reviews for this are pretty good as well, but is $599 and free shipping.
> 
> As best I can tell it's probably pretty good for my CANS (T1 and HD650), but the IFI is brighter sounding, and the IFI has better battery life. The Chord is MUCH smaller, and has worse battery life.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


whitigir said:


> I prefer micro IDSD over the Mojo. To my preferences, the warmth, the dynamic, soundstage on the IDSD micro is better


 
 I would agree with this as well. Yes the Mojo is about a 1/3 the size but the Micro has way more features. I demoed both for a tour and bought the Micro.


----------



## Sonic Defender

john57 said:


> If a item sold by Amazon or Fulfilled by Amazon it follows Amazon customer policies as I understand it.


 
 Yes, that would be the case, and that is why I'm saying in this case the vendor's policies may not be so customer friendly. I always look to get stuff from Amazon they sell or fulfill for exactly that reason.


----------



## networkn

Is Adorama ok ? They are doing free freight @ $499. 
 Amazon apparently had them at $288 in October last year, shame there isn't a deal currently on!
 Ugh, sadly free shipping only applies to 48 States, not Hawaii.


----------



## Sonic Defender

networkn said:


> Is Adorama ok ? They are doing free freight @ $499.
> Amazon apparently had them at $288 in October last year, shame there isn't a deal currently on!
> Ugh, sadly free shipping only applies to 48 States, not Hawaii.


 
 $288, that couldn't have been the Micro was it? At that price I would have to assume it was almost below wholesale pricing if not close to cost of manufacture/distribution. I would ask the vendor if they can prorate shipping. For instance, if anybody else gets free shipping in the 48 states, that implies that a unit being shipped to Hawaii should travel free for the customer up until the point where it leaves the continent. So if say it leaves continental US at California and the cost of shipping to Hawaii is $38, but shipping to a California resident is $22 you should only pay the difference in shipping if you ask me.


----------



## The Walrus

the walrus said:


> That's interesting. I experience this only at the beginning of the first song. Not a glitch after that. Even if I pause the song, wait for a minute then resume, no problem. Again with PC,no problem. Just the beginning of the first song with phone or Sony A17 Strange...


 
 Strange strange strange! I reverted back to firmware 4.04 and the fade-in problem disappeared.


----------



## Whitigir

the walrus said:


> Strange strange strange! I reverted back to firmware 4.04 and the fade-in problem disappeared.




Lol, Dr. Strange, is that you ? 



sonic defender said:


> $288, that couldn't have been the Micro was it? At that price I would have to assume it was almost below wholesale pricing if not close to cost of manufacture/distribution. I would ask the vendor if they can prorate shipping. For instance, if anybody else gets free shipping in the 48 states, that implies that a unit being shipped to Hawaii should travel free for the customer up until the point where it leaves the continent. So if say it leaves continental US at California and the cost of shipping to Hawaii is $38, but shipping to a California resident is $22 you should only pay the difference in shipping if you ask me.




Yeah, I think he got confused with the nano line


----------



## bluesaint

gordec said:


> I plan on ordering the 2nd run of the Liquid Carbon. If I do RCA to RCA feeding from the Micro, it is going to be inferior to XLR to XLR balanced input to output?


 
  
 Actually, LC has a phase splitter for RCA input that will produce a balanced signal.  Stillhart posted his test result of A/B testing between xlr and rca input and found minimal sound quality difference.


----------



## iFi audio

iFi USA *Official distribution handover*
  

  
  
 Southport, UK – 18th April 2016
  
*iFi has taken over distribution from Avatar Acoustics**.*
  
 AMR/iFi would like to thank Avatar Acoustics for their immense contribution since 2007. The new launches, product awards and national dealer network is second-to-none. Avatar Acoustics will always remain much respected.
  
 iFi USA; a wholly-owned subsidiary of AMR/iFi will handle the expanding retail network and all the demands hitherto required of such a major operation. It is fully committed to serving our customers as we enter the next growth phase.
  
 For further details, please email admin@ifi-audio.com


----------



## networkn

sonic defender said:


> $288, that couldn't have been the Micro was it? At that price I would have to assume it was almost below wholesale pricing if not close to cost of manufacture/distribution. I would ask the vendor if they can prorate shipping. For instance, if anybody else gets free shipping in the 48 states, that implies that a unit being shipped to Hawaii should travel free for the customer up until the point where it leaves the continent. So if say it leaves continental US at California and the cost of shipping to Hawaii is $38, but shipping to a California resident is $22 you should only pay the difference in shipping if you ask me.


 
  
 Well seeing as I've now emailed 3 companies, none who have got back to me, it seems relatively unlikely such a deal might be struck. The pricing I got was from CamelCamelCamel who track price history of Amazon items. 
  
 Disappointing I have been unable to get an email response. I guess I could call, but doesn't fill me with confidence that potential issues with warranty will be handled efficiently.


----------



## technobear

networkn said:


> Well seeing as I've now emailed 3 companies, none who have got back to me, it seems relatively unlikely such a deal might be struck. The pricing I got was from CamelCamelCamel who track price history of Amazon items.
> 
> Disappointing I have been unable to get an email response. I guess I could call, but doesn't fill me with confidence that potential issues with warranty will be handled efficiently.


----------



## CFGamescape

Just wanted to share my little work setup I have with the iDSD. I recently bought a custom Elijah Audio USB cable on eBay for relativey cheap (I was the only bidder and got it at reserve price) that had a female A type termination. It's a split cable (power and data) but single-ended on each side.

My chain is iPad (steaming Tidal) > Apple CCK > Schiit PYST USB > Schiit Wyrd > custom USB cable > iDSD > Ether C. 



Sounds great! I plan on trying out the iPurifier2 in this chain when I get one in.


----------



## Whitigir

That is awesome rig !


----------



## balcy24

sonic defender said:


> $288, that couldn't have been the Micro was it?


 
  
 I think that was probably a Nano price. I was looking for a Micro at the time and found one in the forums here for $390 after New Years and couldn't be happier!.When a used one hits the market they sure don't last long.


----------



## potkettleblack

I'm saying this because it looks like I will be unfortunately selling my HD800S due to fit issues.

The Ifi idsd micro made the 800S a lot more musical, liquid and ear pleasing than my 02 or 02/ODAC (I borrowed).

With the o2 and ODAC I still heard moments of brightness (an unpleasant amount) whereas with the idsd it NEVER happened. Absolutely love the two together and if I keep the 800S I would have no intention of changing that setup at all.

Very slight decrease in soundstage and low level details - but the overall presentation was absolutely awesome.


----------



## Sonic Defender

potkettleblack said:


> I'm saying this because it looks like I will be unfortunately selling my HD800S due to fit issues.
> 
> The Ifi idsd micro made the 800S a lot more musical, liquid and ear pleasing than my 02 or 02/ODAC (I borrowed).
> 
> ...


 
 So what headphone will you be going with? I recently picked up a TH 600 and I'm pretty pleased with how the Micro meshes with it.


----------



## warrior1975

I'd love to hear the ifi micro with my th900. I'm getting a micro one day in the near future.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> I'd love to hear the ifi micro with my th900. I'm getting a micro one day in the near future.


 
 I owned a TH 900 not long ago and it would indeed a pretty sick combination.


----------



## potkettleblack

sonic defender said:


> So what headphone will you be going with? I recently picked up a TH 600 and I'm pretty pleased with how the Micro meshes with it.


Obviously sticking with the Abyss... But will be hearing the stax range again in a week so will take it from there. Probably the l700/007


----------



## warrior1975

Love my th900 and mojo, the ifi having more power (than mojo) would be nice to hear.


----------



## Whitigir

Ok, so micro IDSD with 4000mW is still not enough ?


----------



## warrior1975

warrior1975 said:


> Love my th900 and mojo, the ifi having more power would be nice to hear.




Sorry, that statement was ambiguous. I meant the ifi having more power than Mojo.


----------



## ClieOS

warrior1975 said:


> Sorry, that statement was ambiguous. I meant the ifi having more power than Mojo.


 
  
 Of course it does. Micro iDSD is easily a few times more powerful than Mojo,


----------



## warrior1975

clieos said:


> Of course it does. Micro iDSD is easily a few times more powerful than Mojo,




Lol. Wow, I'm having a hard time communicating with you guys today. 

I know it does, I was trying to say that I was looking forward to the ifi, one of the reasons being, it has more power than the Mojo. 

Sorry... I'm having a rough day.


----------



## WCDchee

warrior1975 said:


> Lol. Wow, I'm having a hard time communicating with you guys today.
> 
> I know it does, I was trying to say that I was looking forward to the ifi, one of the reasons being, it has more power than the Mojo.
> 
> Sorry... I'm having a rough day.




While it does have more power on paper, the mojo already has more than enough for anything other than maybe a HE6. 

Besides, I've found the mojo to be more transparent, dynamic and revealing than the idsd.


----------



## warrior1975

I've seen people like both, I am thinking more tend to lean towards the Mojo.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

wcdchee said:


> While it does have more power on paper, the mojo already has more than enough for anything other than maybe a HE6.
> 
> Besides, I've found the mojo to be more transparent, dynamic and revealing than the idsd.


 

 Owned the ifi  family for 3 months
  

  

  

  
  
  
 Owned the Mojo for about the same
  

  
  
  
 Both great items in different ways but for a pure power user with eq headroom via amp as my _critical_ thing..
 I'm please to say I will be officially re-joining the iFi family (micro iDSD)


----------



## WCDchee

Of course, it's all subjective preferences 

But what I'm saying is, if you're expecting the idsd to drive headphones with more authority than the mojo because of the specs, you might not be right, because the mojo does have more than enough power for about any headphone. The idsd' additional power would just not be utilised


----------



## warrior1975

Well I'm the guy that likes to have a car that can go 200... May not do it myself, but nice knowing. Plus, they obviously are different, the power is the one thing I mentioned, but different dacs, ifi has lots of fun switches and button type things. 

I'm very happy with my Mojo, I love it. Not looking to get rid of it, I hurt bought my second one. 

I just love my toys, that's all.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

wcdchee said:


> Of course, it's all subjective preferences
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Yeah, specs and graphs should never be the deciding factor. Folks get too caught up in that. Good is what you like. Gotta listen to decide that. They are both fantastic items priced great in a sea of waaaaaay over the top priced stuff.


----------



## warrior1975

Anyone in here with the ifi micro dsd interested in doing a swap, not permanent, just to see what the other's sound like? Mojo for ifi. Any takers? I want to hear this little guy... Or ideally anyone here in South Florida?


----------



## ClieOS

wcdchee said:


> ...
> Besides, I've found the mojo to be more transparent, dynamic and revealing than the idsd.


 
  
 I am more on the opposite in opinion and don't find Mojo having the advantage.


----------



## howdy

clieos said:


> I am more on the opposite in opinion and don't find Mojo having the advantage.



I'm with you, I had both for the tour and bought iFi DSD Micro. The mojo is a great device but to me this is a lot better all around.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> Anyone in here with the ifi micro dsd interested in doing a swap, not permanent, just to see what the other's sound like? Mojo for ifi. Any takers? I want to hear this little guy... Or ideally anyone here in South Florida?


 
 Bummer we are so far apart or I would certainly do it.


----------



## Whitigir

clieos said:


> I am more on the opposite in opinion and don't find Mojo having the advantage.





howdy said:


> I'm with you, I had both for the tour and bought iFi DSD Micro. The mojo is a great device but to me this is a lot better all around.




I am with you both as well


----------



## warrior1975

I'm going to have to find out for ma self. Ifi is back on the list again.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Damn, I'm glad to hear all of these pro-Micro opinions among those who have heard/had both as I was close to trying the Mojo (which I'm sure is awesome as well). I was lucky in that my local dealer had a Micro in stock so I just hoped on the bus and within an hour I was back home with my new Micro.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> I'm going to have to find out for ma self. Ifi is back on the list again.


 
 The Micro does seem to be pretty sweet and the form factor is solid as well. I do prefer the looks of the M9xx and that would be on my short list as well. Before getting the iDSD I tried to snag a used M9xx from a head-fi member, but he preferred to sell in the US. Kind of sucked as I had cash in hand and he allowed a US based buyer 24 hours to produce cash instead of just selling to me. I kind of get it, but at the same time it is stupid as Canada is the biggest trading partner of the US with an almost transparent border for shipping goods.
  
 I just got my TH 600 from a Texas member and if you can believe this, my TH 600 arrived in 4 days, quicker than a headphone purchase the Texas member made from another Texas member! Crazy.


----------



## chillaxing

warrior1975 said:


> I'm going to have to find out for ma self. Ifi is back on the list again.


 
  
  
 Do it, do it, do it.
  
  
 Its a great amp, and 4000mw!!!  you know what i'm saying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
 Question for the iFi guys.  
  
 You guys plan on coming out with something thats _really_ portable and has a **** ton of power?


----------



## howdy

warrior1975 said:


> I'm going to have to find out for ma self. Ifi is back on the list again.


 

 You have to get this, it is an amazing device! I have mine hooked to a DX80 which has dual slots for 256gb of music and it use optical input.


----------



## warrior1975

You guys suck!!


----------



## Aegruin

Guys, I'm thinking about iDSD Micro to use with my Earsonics Velvet, I have some questions but I couldn't find any answers.
  
*1)* How to charge iDSD?
 I'm not a portable guy but people keep recommending iDSD, so I probably will buy it for my desktop use. Do I need to charge it when using it with a PC? No one has discussed(or I couldn't find any info) how long it works, how can you charge it, how long the charging takes. I'm an Audiophile and also a gamer. If it's charge drains when I'm in an online game, it would be really bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*2)* USB or SPDIF?
 I also have Coax and Toslink options on my PC. But they only support 24/192. I think, I souldn't be using that but did anyone used it? How it sounds? Same?
 I also have a very expensive mainboard that provides a clean 5V from USB's. So it's not a normal, dirty USB that I will use iDSD with. What's your opinion on that?
  
  
 The last one is a general question actually;
  
*3)* What's diffrence on sound that output impedance does?
 I'm now using Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2. It has a 75Ohm output impedance. So I looked into Mojo and Hugo. They have 0.75Ohm of output impedance. And finally iDSD, it has 1Ohm of output impedance. What is the diffrence?
  
  
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Koolpep

aegruin said:


> Guys, I'm thinking about iDSD Micro to use with my Earsonics Velvet, I have some questions but I couldn't find any answers.
> 
> *1)* How to charge iDSD?
> I'm not a portable guy but people keep recommending iDSD, so I probably will buy it for my desktop use. Do I need to charge it when using it with a PC? No one has discussed(or I couldn't find any info) how long it works, how can you charge it, how long the charging takes. I'm an Audiophile and also a gamer. If it's charge drains when I'm in an online game, it would be really bad.
> ...


 

 1) when connected to your PC via USB it charges automatically via USB (as long as you connect iDSD first and then switch it on) - depending on the juice the headphones drain it might still use some battery - but based on your signature you don't have any of these monsters (like HE-6) that could consume more than USB can provide. I have never seen iDSD being drained while connected to USB. It takes a lot to drain a 4,800mAh battery while also having a 500mA USB power coming in. 
  
 2) Use USB, the iDSD has a power cleaner (iPurifier)  build in - you should be fine. If you have any static - you can use SPDIF optical - guaranteed no static. (then use a USB charger to keep iDSD charged)
  
 3) Your Magni2 doesn't have 75 Ohm output impedance. It has 0.2 Ohm output impedance, so in line with Mojo, Hugo etc. . The 75Ohm are the output impedance of the RCA out from your Modi2 (line out to amp) - so all is good.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## gordec

I just got the micro a week ago. Dell XPS 15 -> Micro -> LCD 3. At very low volume, when you are just turning in the volume knob, there is channel imbalance to the left. That's normal right? Once I'm on the listening volume that imbalance resolved.


----------



## CFGamescape

gordec said:


> I just got the micro a week ago. Dell XPS 15 -> Micro -> LCD 3. At very low volume, when you are just turning in the volume knob, there is channel imbalance to the left. That's normal right? Once I'm on the listening volume that imbalance resolved.


 

 Normal.


----------



## jagu

@CFGamescape,
  
 I see in your profile that you have Mr Speakers Ether C. I am very interested i getting those myself, unfortunately no dealer here in Sweden so i need to import. What are your impressions with Ether Cs and the Micro?


----------



## technobear

gordec said:


> I just got the micro a week ago. Dell XPS 15 -> Micro -> LCD 3. At very low volume, when you are just turning in the volume knob, there is channel imbalance to the left. That's normal right? Once I'm on the listening volume that imbalance resolved.


----------



## Whitigir

Oh my god. This combo just once more bring me another verification on the superbly unique "inner fidelity" from the Micro IDSD. It is so energetic and uniquely fluid. 

The Dharma D1000 !


----------



## quodjo105

whitigir said:


> Oh my god. This combo just once more bring me another verification on the superbly unique "inner fidelity" from the Micro IDSD. It is so energetic and uniquely fluid.
> 
> The Dharma D1000 !


 
 What is the cable used to connect the zx2 to the micro?.. any links to where i can get one..thanks


----------



## ClieOS

quodjo105 said:


> What is the cable used to connect the zx2 to the micro?.. any links to where i can get one..thanks


 
  
 Sony WMC-NWH10. It is an official Sony accessories and you can find it on many places.


----------



## Whitigir

quodjo105 said:


> What is the cable used to connect the zx2 to the micro?.. any links to where i can get one..thanks




http://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE?ie=UTF8&keywords=Wmc-nwh10&qid=1461694902&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1


----------



## quodjo105

whitigir said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE?ie=UTF8&keywords=Wmc-nwh10&qid=1461694902&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1


 
 Thanks very much that was helpful. Just a quick question.With this connection will the zx2 be used as a mere transport or will the DAC be in use as well. Also does the battery run down faster than normal?.. thanks


----------



## Whitigir

1/ yes, as becames a high quality transport , and IDSD micro is the DAC amp

2/ battery will be down faster, and zx2 can only last about 6-7 hours continuously feeding


----------



## Sonic Defender

quodjo105 said:


> Thanks very much that was helpful. Just a quick question.With this connection will the zx2 be used as a mere transport or will the DAC be in use as well. Also does the battery run down faster than normal?.. thanks


 
 And at that point, just use your smartphone as the transport. If the Micro is doing all the heavy lifting adding a device like the ZX2 is just throwing your money away (unless you also use it as more than a transport).


----------



## kingdixon

whitigir said:


> 1/ yes, as becames a high quality transport , and IDSD micro is the DAC amp
> 
> 2/ battery will be down faster, and zx2 can only last about 6-7 hours continuously feeding


 
  
 Have you tried the firmware specially for smartphone to avoid draining when not active ? Did it make a difference with zx2 ?  I need to try that..
  
 oh btw i got the idsd and its simply amazing !
  
  


sonic defender said:


> And at that point, just use your smartphone as the transport. If the Micro is doing all the heavy lifting adding a device like the ZX2 is just throwing your money away (unless you also use it as more than a transport).


 
  
 Ye , i kept zx2 for my iems currently use my x5 with idsd to drive headphones, strangely enough x5 through coax lasts the battery as normal usage.


----------



## Whitigir

kingdixon said:


> Have you tried the firmware specially for smartphone to avoid draining when not active ? Did it make a difference with zx2 ?  I need to try that..
> 
> oh btw i got the idsd and its simply amazing !
> 
> ...




I have not tried it yet, and I never liked them even for smartphones. Yeah, the micro IDSD is amazingly good, it unique and energetic tonal density is just so awesome.

I think being optical data beaming, there won't be any interruption and interferences or even timing jitter....because light is the fastest form of speed in our universe ? Beside, the data beam is light itself, so there won't be any electronic interferences (so minimalists process ?) The Zx2 lacks of this for being a high quality dedicated transport. I do think that the Zx2 do involve extra processing prowess toward timing and or something else while transporting data ? It explains why it drain battery so fast, but I really have no clue.


----------



## kingdixon

whitigir said:


> I have not tried it yet, and I never liked them even for smartphones. Yeah, the micro IDSD is amazingly good, it unique and energetic tonal density is just so awesome.
> 
> I think being optical data beaming, there won't be any interruption and interferences or even timing jitter....because light is the fastest form of speed in our universe ? Beside, the data beam is light itself, so there won't be any electronic interferences (so minimalists process ?) The Zx2 lacks of this for being a high quality dedicated transport. I do think that the Zx2 do involve extra processing prowess toward timing and or something else while transporting data ? It explains why it drain battery so fast, but I really have no clue.




I dont mean using it with smartphones, i mean trying the firmware dedicated for smartphones with zx2, may be then the battery would last longer for zx2..

i will give it a try some time.


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> I have not tried it yet, and I never liked them even for smartphones. Yeah, the micro IDSD is amazingly good, it unique and energetic tonal density is just so awesome.
> 
> I think being optical data beaming, there won't be any interruption and interferences or even timing jitter....because light is the fastest form of speed in our universe ? Beside, the data beam is light itself, so there won't be any electronic interferences (so minimalists process ?) The Zx2 lacks of this for being a high quality dedicated transport. I do think that the Zx2 do involve extra processing prowess toward timing and or something else while transporting data ? It explains why it drain battery so fast, but I really have no clue.


 
 Well, the light is created electronically, so yes, it will have some degree of electrical circuit generation associated with it.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Well, the light is created electronically, so yes, it will have some degree of electrical circuit generation associated with it.




True enough, if you count into the processing hardware to the beams. I was only meant when it becomes the beams and transport in to feed the DAC . Very valid points


----------



## The Walrus

whitigir said:


> I think being optical data beaming, there won't be any interruption and interferences or even timing jitter....because light is the fastest form of speed in our universe ? Beside, the data beam is light itself, so there won't be any electronic interferences (so minimalists process ?) The Zx2 lacks of this for being a high quality dedicated transport. I do think that the Zx2 do involve extra processing prowess toward timing and or something else while transporting data ? It explains why it drain battery so fast, but I really have no clue.


 

 Any electrical (better said electro-magnetical signal across a wire DOES travel with the speed of light. Electric signals and light behave exactly the same way:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation


----------



## CFGamescape

jagu said:


> @CFGamescape,
> 
> I see in your profile that you have Mr Speakers Ether C. I am very interested i getting those myself, unfortunately no dealer here in Sweden so i need to import. What are your impressions with Ether Cs and the Micro?


 

 It's really good; basically, the Ether C captures everything the iDSD does well. I only have my Schiit Bifrost + Lyr 2 to compare it against at the moment, but the iDSD is what I use at work and frankly, gets 80% more play time than my Schiit stack. Mids / vocals are slightly more forward with iDSD and as a result, sounds more intimate than my Schiit stack, but the latter is more open and resolving across FQ.
  
 The Ether C doesn't need a ton of power, but responds well when I flip the iDSD to Turbo. Bass extension is better, but because I have so little play with the volume in this mode, I hardly ever use it. Too much listening fatigue in Turbo mode. I have it in Normal mode with both the XBass and 3D switches enabled for the majority of my music.


----------



## Whitigir

the walrus said:


> Any electrical (better said electro-magnetical signal across a wire DOES travel with the speed of light. Electric signals and light behave exactly the same way:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation




Thank you ! I learn new thing everyday 

Back onto micro IDSD and Dharma D1000. The sound is so addicting and mesmerizing that it kept on calling me back to listen to it....jeezzzz. My next project would be to make a good cables for the D1000 and try it balanced with another amp


----------



## Sonic Defender

cfgamescape said:


> It's really good; basically, the Ether C captures everything the iDSD does well. I only have my Schiit Bifrost + Lyr 2 to compare it against at the moment, but the iDSD is what I use at work and frankly, gets 80% more play time than my Schiit stack. Mids / vocals are slightly more forward with iDSD and as a result, sounds more intimate than my Schiit stack, but the latter is more open and resolving across FQ.
> 
> The Ether C doesn't need a ton of power, but responds well when I flip the iDSD to Turbo. Bass extension is better, but because I have so little play with the volume in this mode, I hardly ever use it. Too much listening fatigue in Turbo mode. I have it in Normal mode with both the XBass and 3D switches enabled for the majority of my music.


 
 I have read quite a few impressions where people find that the bass on the Ether C is surprisingly light in quantity for a closed headphone with a few people who even feel the Ether Open has more bass. I have wanted to try the Ether C, but if this is accurate, and as I said, I have read quite a few impressions of the Ether C, it is hard to accept for a headphone of this price. With a closed headphone you would expect bass to be solid. What are your thoughts on this?


----------



## howdy

I use my DX80 optical out to the iDSD Micro and it an amazing combo as I have said a few times. The DX80 has the same battery life and has dual slots for plenty of music on the go. I highly recommended the DX80 as a source for the Micro. Also fits nicely on top of the Micro. 

Just a FYI to all Micro owners, I will be trying to make a little piece part that will fit inside the gain area so that it does not accidently get bumped in to Turbo mode which happened to me once. I will bring it with me this weekend and measure it when I'm at work and send it down to the 3D printer (one of the advantages of being a Machinist). I was going to try and make a case that went all around it but in order for it to have any rigidity it would have to be fairly thick.


----------



## kingdixon

Guys, i want your opinion about the 3d switch,

I cant settle on wether to use it or not,

The changes i hear with my ears is a more intimate presentation with sound being more surround sound, more width to the soundstage specially in instrument placing, but with less depth.

i find it amazing with some songs, with other songs with lots of instruments, i feel it becomes abit crowded and switching it off might be better..

i hate to keep switching it on and off for each song LOL

by the way this description is what i hear with my unproffessional ears, may be someone feels it in another way..


----------



## howdy

kingdixon said:


> Guys, i want your opinion about the 3d switch,
> 
> I cant settle on wether to use it or not,
> 
> ...



I like the 3d switch when listening to live music, it adds more "liveliness" to it.


----------



## CFGamescape

sonic defender said:


> I have read quite a few impressions where people find that the bass on the Ether C is surprisingly light in quantity for a closed headphone with a few people who even feel the Ether Open has more bass. I have wanted to try the Ether C, but if this is accurate, and as I said, I have read quite a few impressions of the Ether C, it is hard to accept for a headphone of this price. With a closed headphone you would expect bass to be solid. What are your thoughts on this?




The Ether C is a neutral headphone, very resolving, but smooth in the highs. It's not a bass can that will give you that impact, but I feel the bass is clean and well extended. 

There is a stark difference in bass extension and presence from the time I got it and now, with a little over 150 hours (I actually kept track of this in a log), so keep that in mind. 

I personally have no issues with the bass; I think it's perfect for my tastes and the wide range of genres I listen to. By calling it bass light is inaccurate, IMO. Every track that has bass, whether heavy or not, is always presented well by the Ether C.

YMMV but I think it's worth a try and to definitely give it 150-200 hours before concluding anything.


----------



## Whitigir

cfgamescape said:


> The Ether C is a neutral headphone, very resolving, but smooth in the highs. It's not a bass can that will give you that impact, but I feel the bass is clean and well extended.
> 
> There is a stark difference in bass extension and presence from the time I got it and now, with a little over 150 hours (I actually kept track of this in a log), so keep that in mind.
> 
> ...




The Dharma D1000 has everything the micro IDSD can offer. Impactful and dynamic, resolving, defined and smooth trebles

It is the hybrid of paper dynamic driver and electrostatic membrane driver

http://www.enigmacoustics.com/prod-in-finale.asp?idno=97


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> The Dharma D1000 has everything the micro IDSD can offer. Impactful and dynamic, resolving, defined and smooth trebles
> 
> It is the hybrid of paper dynamic driver and electrostatic membrane driver
> 
> http://www.enigmacoustics.com/prod-in-finale.asp?idno=97


 
 Again, this headphone has been only modestly well reviewed and nobody is raving about it. Another headphone I was considering a while back, but again I was put off by the luke warm reviews. How long are you going to have this headphone for, is it a review sample?


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Again, this headphone has been only modestly well reviewed and nobody is raving about it. Another headphone I was considering a while back, but again I was put off by the luke warm reviews. How long are you going to have this headphone for, is it a review sample?




Review sample, yes. I will have a few weeks with it. Out of all of my collection, the D1000 is by far the best to pair with IDSD micro. There are some speedy top end trebles that I missed out by even the SA5000 and TH900. Only until I heard it from the D1000, then I paid attention looking for it from SA5000, it was there and barely presenting because the slower speed, it couldn't define these trebles at the resolution where the D1000 does.

Those are first impressions, but the combination is too good to be true. It is like the D1000 was born and tuned on the micro IDSD or so...it is very crazy

I kind of understand why the D1000 may have not been well received so far. Because the micro IDSD has that unique tonal body density, and it compliment the D1000 so well. I tried D1000 out of the PHA-3 and it was obvious that PHA-3 was lacking behind from SE dynamic and impactful


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Review sample, yes. I will have a few weeks with it. Out of all of my collection, the D1000 is by far the best to pair with IDSD micro. There are some speedy top end trebles that I missed out by even the SA5000 and TH900. Only until I heard it from the D1000, then I paid attention looking for it from SA5000, it was there and barely presenting because the slower speed, it couldn't define these trebles at the resolution where the D1000 does.


 
 You are one of the rare treble heads it sounds like. Mate, I have never heard anybody feel they wanted more treble from a TH900, that is a first for me. I know even with my 47 year old hearing the TH 900/600 have as much treble as I could ever want, I actually dial them back via EQ. If the Dharma is that treble centric it definitely would not be for me.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> You are one of the rare treble heads it sounds like. Mate, I have never heard anybody feel they wanted more treble from a TH900, that is a first for me. I know even with my 47 year old hearing the TH 900/600 have as much treble as I could ever want, I actually dial them back via EQ. If the Dharma is that treble centric it definitely would not be for me.




 Lol, i am not yet 47.....and from what you described....I hope I am not deaf lol. I guess I simplified it so much and mis-lead you for (trebles). It is a combination of resolution+speed+clarity, and it was able to define some trebles plays that would be buried by the slower speed of th900 or sa5000. Even though both of these are very fast and almost as fast as ES...the D1000 has a real electro static driver in it which was specifically built to cater toward trebles

I just finished a session with D1000 and PHA-3 on single ended. Seriously, if I was to demo this combo, I would not buy any. The PHA-3 obviously lacking the impact, energy and musicality, the D1000 has thin trebles and even hot sometimes.

This is exactly why the Micro IDSD compliment the D1000 so well. It has the unique tonal body thickness, impact, and energy and it made the D1000 becomes a very musical but yet neutral enough, spacious sounding headphones. Then on top of that the warmer trebles but still defined from the micro IDSD is exactly what compliment the D1000 again.

There is this "special feeling" when you have found something that compliment another so well that they were born for each other, like a married couples. This is the case, the micro IDSD and D1000

I do agree though, about the D1000 could be called trebles centric ? I can not even call Micro IDSD being warm at all.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@Whitigir, so how is the bass of the Dharma? I've read it is nice, but soft and without much impact. Is that your impression?


----------



## howdy

I too had the Dharma for about a month and they do sound awesome with the Micro. I especially liked them at low volume as they still sounded full.


----------



## CFGamescape

sonic defender said:


> You are one of the rare treble heads it sounds like. Mate, I have never heard anybody feel they wanted more treble from a TH900, that is a first for me. I know even with my 47 year old hearing the TH 900/600 have as much treble as I could ever want, I actually dial them back via EQ. If the Dharma is that treble centric it definitely would not be for me.




What are you looking good in a headphone?


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> @Whitigir, so how is the bass of the Dharma? I've read it is nice, but soft and without much impact. Is that your impression?




With the PHA-3 it was. The bass is so neutral and clean, but very impactful, snappy, detailed with micro IDSD. It was like they were engineered for one another ?



howdy said:


> I too had the Dharma for about a month and they do sound awesome with the Micro. I especially liked them at low volume as they still sounded full.




Yes, absolutely agreed. In a sense, I can't even believe I am hearing this kind of quality from micro IDSD and D1000 which can be had for less than $2000


----------



## Sonic Defender

cfgamescape said:


> What are you looking good in a headphone?


 
 I'm sorry mate, I don't quite understand what you are asking.


----------



## CFGamescape

sonic defender said:


> I'm sorry mate, I don't quite understand what you are asking.


 
 LOL, sorry! iPhone auto correct FTW. I meant to say, what are you looking for in a headphone? As in, what attributes appeal to you? Sounds like bass is important, but to what extent, I'm not sure. Either way, you should try the Ether C. Do it!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

I am back.
  
 Very stoked.


----------



## Whitigir

hawaiibadboy said:


> I am back.
> 
> Very stoked.




Excellent !  you will loveeeeee it !


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

whitigir said:


> Excellent !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is my 2nd time owning it. Sold the 1st one and got a Mojo...now I sold that and have returned.


----------



## howdy

hawaiibadboy said:


> This is my 2nd time owning it. Sold the 1st one and got a Mojo...now I sold that and have returned.


 

 Awesome decision! I liked the Mojo but like this iDSD Micro better.


----------



## Ken57

Comparing just the DAC which do you like better? And how does it compare to a desktop DAC? Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir

hawaiibadboy said:


> This is my 2nd time owning it. Sold the 1st one and got a Mojo...now I sold that and have returned.




Lol, Welcome back ! IFI is the real deal


----------



## rayquaza

I hated the $2 android OTG cable. Its loose and feel plasticky. Just arrived today,i got a custom USB OTG cable from Forza Audioworks for my Onkyo DP X1 and Ifi Micro idsd! Audio quality improved. I don't know how to explain this but it sounds more faster and tight. Details can be heard better too.


----------



## somanydynamos

my idsd micro is connected to my cpu but it is always running low on battery halfway (flashing red light) through my listening session
  
 i read somewhere that to enable the usb powered function, the unit has to be switch on after connecting it to a source.
  
 how is this applicable in my case?
  
 would appreciate some help from users using it as a desktop amp/dac.


----------



## Sonic Defender

somanydynamos said:


> my idsd micro is connected to my cpu but it is always running low on battery halfway (flashing red light) through my listening session
> 
> i read somewhere that to enable the usb powered function, the unit has to be switch on after connecting it to a source.
> 
> ...


 
 I connect it to my laptop and I have never had this problem. First thing you want to do is look and see if USB power management is on. If it is turn it off for all the ports. Just Google how to do it for whatever your OS is. After that make sure the iDSD has a full charge and then take notes to see how long it lasts. If it continues to last significantly less than iFi states it should, and the unit is new, you may have a battery issue. Batteries do wear out and in theory may even have been less than healthy before the unit was even built, but I doubt that is the case, look into the USB power management issue first.


----------



## Haris Javed

somanydynamos said:


> my idsd micro is connected to my cpu but it is always running low on battery halfway (flashing red light) through my listening session
> 
> i read somewhere that to enable the usb powered function, the unit has to be switch on after connecting it to a source.
> 
> ...


 
 I am genuinely confused - how did you connect your IFI with your CPU  joking aside - you should find this very helpful. Sorry too much to type for me. 
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?cid=20
  
 what I would recommend that you buy this USB hub it is supports BC1.2 ports (fast charging and higher current / voltage) 
 - regular PC usb ports * do not * provide enough juice for this unit to be charged when it is running on max voltage. The max a PC usb port will provide is 5V and 500ma, which is 2.5W (even if they run at full power, 500ma is the Limit!) - I know that usb 3.0 does more but if you have other devices connected they will consume power
  
 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1DS1RR0542
  
 this hub supports fast USB charging (and high powered charging 2.4v @ 5A  = 12W) - connect this hub with your PC, and connect Imicro Idsd to this hub. This way you can run it the iMicro on max voltage setting and still have the unit fully charged. At all times! 
  
 good luck, and remember not to plug devices in your cpu


----------



## Sonic Defender

The powered hub would make more sense. I'm trying to figure out if power management would even be responsible for that? I'm not sure as when I think about it, power management would only turn the port off when it isn't being used, but if the Micro is plugged into the port you would think the power management would not manage the port. I need to go research this again as it has been a while.


----------



## somanydynamos

haris javed said:


> I am genuinely confused - how did you connect your IFI with your CPU  joking aside - you should find this very helpful. Sorry too much to type for me.
> 
> http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?cid=20
> 
> ...


 


 idsd > blue cable in the digital input > usb 2.0 port, if this helps =)

 noted on the purchase of the usb hub, but does the sequence of switching the unit on before or after make any difference?


----------



## Haris Javed

sonic defender said:


> The powered hub would make more sense. I'm trying to figure out if power management would even be responsible for that? I'm not sure as when I think about it, power management would only turn the port off when it isn't being used, but if the Micro is plugged into the port you would think the power management would not manage the port. I need to go research this again as it has been a while.


 
 Hi yes, power management is some what possible. It is located in three places, but it is not enough - I used to have the same issue as you are seeing. I tried changing the settings at these three places shown below, but it was no use. 
  

  

  
  

 but after everything failed, I bought this specific hub, please make sure that the Hub you buy is BC 1.2 compliant, or you will see the same issues. The one I linked earlier is BC 1.2 compliant. I have gone through two hubs before with no luck. 
  
 thank you


----------



## Sonic Defender

haris javed said:


> Hi yes, power management is some what possible. It is located in three places, but it is not enough - I used to have the same issue as you are seeing. I tried changing the settings at these three places shown below, but it was no use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I found a good article where a poster had constant issues with the power management feature and he had to resort to a simple Powershell script and an scheduled task run as admin at startup to solve it. It was for a USB 3 port, but I imagine the script could be made to work for 2.0. The answer is almost at the bottom of the page, maybe it will help, here is the link
  
 http://superuser.com/questions/749982/prevent-windows-7-from-enabling-power-saving-on-usb-3-0-hub


----------



## Haris Javed

somanydynamos said:


> idsd > blue cable in the digital input > usb 2.0 port, if this helps =)
> 
> noted on the purchase of the usb hub, but does the sequence of switching the unit on before or after make any difference?


 
 Hi bud, yes the sequencing makes a difference 
  
 1. If the unit is turned on before it is connected to the hub, it will use Internal battery (but It will still charge with the hub I listed)
 2. If the unit is turned on after it is connected to the hub, It will not use the Internal battery, and if the battery is low it will be charged by the hub. 
  
 hope that helps - I was seeing the same issue as you, and getting a good BC1.2 hub resolved it
  
 thank you


----------



## Haris Javed

sonic defender said:


> I found a good article where a poster had constant issues with the power management feature and he had to resort to a simple Powershell script and an scheduled task run as admin at startup to solve it. It was for a USB 3 port, but I imagine the script could be made to work for 2.0. The answer is almost at the bottom of the page, maybe it will help, here is the link
> 
> http://superuser.com/questions/749982/prevent-windows-7-from-enabling-power-saving-on-usb-3-0-hub


 
 yes that can be done as well. I think I had to use power shell when I was on win 8.1 because no matter what I did in the power options something kept overriding it. power shell to the rescue - I think the issue was with a blue pro mic not getting enough power


----------



## technobear

somanydynamos said:


> my idsd micro is connected to my cpu but it is always running low on battery halfway (flashing red light) through my listening session
> 
> i read somewhere that to enable the usb powered function, the unit has to be switch on after connecting it to a source.
> 
> how is this applicable in my case?




Firstly, the 'CPU' must be 'ON' before you turn on the iDSD. There must be power coming down the USB cable.

Secondly, a USB 2.0 port will only keep the iDSD running forever in 'ECO' mode.

If you use 'NORMAL' mode, the iDSD battery will be very slowly drained. This is not a problem if you stop listening from time to time with the CPU still 'ON' as the iDSD will then sleep and charge (flashing green LED). If you just kept listening forever though it would probably go flat after a day or two.

If you are using 'TURBO' mode, then the battery will go flat after a few hours regardless because 500mA is definitely not enough to sustain turbo mode and the iDSD will use the battery. It's clever like that.

Hope this helps.

Don't use turbo mode unless you really need it (because you are using HE-6 or some other really inefficient headphone).


----------



## Aerosphere

I've joined to the iDSD Squad


----------



## Sonic Defender

aerosphere said:


> I've joined to the iDSD Squad


 
 Good choice mate. And I was glad to see our boy Hawaiibadboy was also back in the fold.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

sonic defender said:


> Good choice mate. And I was glad to see our boy Hawaiibadboy was also back in the fold.


 


  
  
 Glad to be back.
 Now I gotta dress it up...customize it.
  
 Best way to charge is...??
  
 Blue USB from an apple wall wart to the digital in with the unit turned off?  Forgive me...it's been a couple months


----------



## howdy

I use the blue supplied OTG cable and a Samsung wall outlet phone charger. This charges it fairly quick.


----------



## Whitigir

howdy said:


> I use the blue supplied OTG cable and a Samsung wall outlet phone charger. This charges it fairly quick.




I do it too, and also iPad charger. The Samsung charger is 2100mAh, iPad charger is 2400mAh.


----------



## chillaxing

I'm a dumbass.... 3.5mm in, DUH...


----------



## Whitigir

chillaxing said:


> I'm a dumbass.... 3.5mm in, DUH...




You have lost me....what ?


----------



## chillaxing

LOL, was thinking out loud.  
  
 I been trying to get my v10 to work with both the mojo and micro thru usb with while using neurton, but with no prevail.
  
 Then last night i finally used the 3.5mm input.   I'm a dumbass because the micro sits on my desk for my amp and speakers and the 3.5mm input stares at me every night.


----------



## Sonic Defender

chillaxing said:


> LOL, was thinking out loud.
> 
> I been trying to get my v10 to work with both the mojo and micro thru usb with while using neurton, but with no prevail.
> 
> Then last night i finally used the 3.5mm input.   I'm a dumbass because the micro sits on my desk for my amp and speakers and the 3.5mm input stares at me every night.


 
 You should be able to get it to work via OTG, I have used Neutron with my LG G3 so the V10 should be no different. I found that it generally took a few times each session with me turning on the Micro first, then plugging it into the G3. Usually the first time it didn't seem to work, so I would unplug it from the phone, turn the Micro off, then back on, plug the G3 into it and at worst by the third time it worked. However, the Onkyo HF Player is flawless as it supports USB DAC drivers where Neutron doesn't, it needs to use the Android implementation is my understanding.
  
 With HF Player, the second I plug in the G3 to the Micro via OTG cable it detects the connection and asks me to accept the USB connection and it works amazingly well. I do prefer the EQ on Neutron because it is parametric, but given that EQing isn't completely essential to me the fact that HF player only uses a graphic EQ is not a significant issue for me.


----------



## chillaxing

sonic defender said:


> You should be able to get it to work via OTG, I have used Neutron with my LG G3 so the V10 should be no different. I found that it generally took a few times each session with me turning on the Micro first, then plugging it into the G3. Usually the first time it didn't seem to work, so I would unplug it from the phone, turn the Micro off, then back on, plug the G3 into it and at worst by the third time it worked. However, the Onkyo HF Player is flawless as it supports USB DAC drivers where Neutron doesn't, it needs to use the Android implementation is my understanding.
> 
> With HF Player, the second I plug in the G3 to the Micro via OTG cable it detects the connection and asks me to accept the USB connection and it works amazingly well. I do prefer the EQ on Neutron because it is parametric, but given that EQing isn't completely essential to me the fact that HF player only uses a graphic EQ is not a significant issue for me.


 
  
  
 Ya it does work, i've gotten my g3 to work on it once.  I just don't want to jump thru hoops to get it going.
  
 Uapp and HF player works great with any dac, its just neutron...  I only use neutron when I'm on full basshead mode, so high fidelity isn't important anyways.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

crushed leather cover (check)
 Uber cable (next step)


----------



## LoryWiv

hawaiibadboy said:


> crushed leather cover (check)
> Uber cable (next step)


 
 Beautiful setup!


----------



## CFGamescape

hawaiibadboy said:


> crushed leather cover (check)
> Uber cable (next step)


 

 Nice, where'd you get that cover?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

cfgamescape said:


> Nice, where'd you get that cover?


 
  
 I had an old Italian leather jacket which is dope and it came with extra material.
  
 I made it myself
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Love the look. Very thin so it can still wick off heat and my OCD is fixed since the host (Note 4) is in a leather case.


----------



## chillaxing

How did you glue it on?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

chillaxing said:


> How did you glue it on?


 

 I sewed a velcro seam.
 No ghetto glue
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I need a small hole for the indicator light but the 3 switches can be moved with the leather on.
  
 I woke up last night and wrote a note on my hand to try this. Worked out niiiice!


----------



## CFGamescape

hawaiibadboy said:


> I had an old Italian leather jacket which is dope and it came with extra material.
> 
> I made it myself
> 
> ...


 

 Tight.


----------



## chillaxing

You seamstress you 

Good ****, thought you used glue on this beautiful unit.

"Badboy's leather cases" get your now


----------



## Hisoundfi

iFi micro iDSD, enjoy!
  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/15866


----------



## Whitigir

hisoundfi said:


> iFi micro iDSD, enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow.....I would get lost in that jungle lol...


----------



## Maxpain

Hello,
  
 Can I use the optical port from the micro as an output to a 5.1 reciever from my source (laptop)?


----------



## technobear

maxpain said:


> Hello,
> 
> Can I use the optical port from the micro as an output to a 5.1 reciever from my source (laptop)?




The iDSD is a stereo device. It will only input and output 2.0, not 5.1.

Laptop >> USB >> iDSD >> Optical >> Receiver should work but only in stereo.


----------



## willowbrook

Are there multiple versions of this? I am in Korea and this thing costs 250 usd with some use and 300 for ones that are less than a month old. There is a currency exchange advantage, but still the price difference seems to be so big. I always wondered why...seems like the perfect choice for me right now.


----------



## bluesaint

willowbrook said:


> Are there multiple versions of this? I am in Korea and this thing costs 250 usd with some use and 300 for ones that are less than a month old. There is a currency exchange advantage, but still the price difference seems to be so big. I always wondered why...seems like the perfect choice for me right now.


 
 my guess is you are seeing iDSD "NANO" and not the "Micro"


----------



## willowbrook

bluesaint said:


> my guess is you are seeing iDSD "NANO" and not the "Micro"



They are micro for sure. Seems to be a big price difference here for all audio gear, but ifi is among the biggest difference. Would love to help some who really wants these at a low price.


----------



## Whitigir

willowbrook said:


> They are micro for sure. Seems to be a big price difference here, but ifi is among the biggest difference. Would love to help some who really wants these at a low price.




That would be an awesome value, and I would grab them in a heart beat....just because for a simple fact that it is even cheaper than some in ear monitors nowadays . The price for it is just too low for the performance that it offer, even at full retail pricing


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> That would be an awesome value, and I would grab them in a heart beat....just because for a simple fact that it is even cheaper than some in ear monitors nowadays
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would have to agree, the price to performance ratio is excellent and if you can grab the Micro at $300US that is a steal. I would even seriously consider grabbing a few at that price.


----------



## tgx78

At $250, I would buy 5 more and sprinkle them around my house and office


----------



## willowbrook

Are there any other serious competitors to the micro except for chord mojo along the similar price range? I am going to use it mainly with FLC8s and just want a clean output with black background.


----------



## tgx78

Can't think of any competition really. I have the chord mojo but prefers iDSD when I use HD800 or HE-560.
I've sold my $3000 exasound DAC after comparing it to the micro.


----------



## willowbrook

tgx78 said:


> Can't think of any competition really. I have the chord mojo but prefers iDSD when I use HD800 or HE-560.
> I've sold my $3000 exasound DAC after comparing it to the micro.



Wow, that good huh...how does the micro do in comparison to mojo especially in terms for tonal aspect and detail?


----------



## tgx78

I feel that Mojo's DAC section is more convincing.. it has very slight better separation, dynamics, tonality, detail retrieval, bass definition. Micro might project slightly bigger stage though. But when you compare the amp section Micro wins big time. I am tempted to buy HE-6 again to try it on turbo mode.


----------



## willowbrook

tgx78 said:


> I feel that Mojo's DAC section is better.. it has very slight better separation, dynamics, tonality, detail retrieval, bass definition. Micro might project slightly bigger stage though. But when you compare the amp section Micro wins big time. I am tempted to buy HE-6 again to try it on turbo mode.



Thanks. Since I can get a micro at a really cheap price, I might as well go for it.


----------



## willowbrook

Apparently, new micro costs about 350 USD which is why I can find used ones for 250~300. Insane difference...


----------



## Whitigir

I wish I could find one for 250.....I think IFI micro IDSD is better than mojo


----------



## Sonic Defender

tgx78 said:


> Can't think of any competition really. I have the chord mojo but prefers iDSD when I use HD800 or HE-560.
> I've sold my $3000 exasound DAC after comparing it to the micro.


 
 It is funny, but the reality of the situation is that even average DACs are quite competent and if we close our eyes and use our ears the differences are pretty darn insignificant. You will get these experts who swear up and down about how big the differences are, but I sure never hear about the blind listening tests they used to reach those conclusions. I had an eye opening experience when I sold my DP-X1 and balanced Oppo PM3 in favour of good old Bluetooth Apt X from my G3 phone using the built in amp and DAC in my B&O H7. You know what, I was equally happy with the sound quality, happier as I had no wires for portable use and I saved quite a bit of money to boot.


----------



## Maxpain

Its a long shot but what I would try to do is to send the signal through the idsd using the spfif just as a transport...to the optical input of my pci soundcard acting as a reciever...my sound card is capable of 5.1 sound.


----------



## Sonic Defender

maxpain said:


> Its a long shot but what I would try to do is to send the signal through the idsd using the spfif just as a transport...to the optical input of my pci soundcard acting as a reciever...my sound card is capable of 5.1 sound.


 
 That will work, but only if your receiver can take a 2 channel signal and "fake" 5.1 with it. It isn't the idea of achieving a connection, rather it is the fact that the signal itself is 2 channel audio, not 5.1 encoded. At least that is how I understand the situation, but this isn't my area of expertise at all so I'm guessing with some background, but admit ably not much.


----------



## Maxpain

The trick is to send the information by using the spdif only as a transport. idsd is capable of recieving and outupting stereo sound but what about if a 5.1 digital signal just wents through the device and goes right in to the reciever (soundcard)?


----------



## Sonic Defender

I don't think it works that way, the signal has to be 5.1 encoded discreet channels, the Micro does not output that type of stream. Now the target receiver can use DSP to "fake" 5.1. My brother has an entry level Onkyo 5.1 receiver that actually does a pretty convincing job taking 2 channel and making it act like 5 channel, but it is not true 5.1 and I do not think the Micro can do that.


----------



## technobear

maxpain said:


> The trick is to send the information by using the spdif only as a transport. idsd is capable of recieving and outupting stereo sound but what about if a 5.1 digital signal just wents through the device and goes right in to the reciever (soundcard)?




Sorry for repeating myself but the iDSD is a stereo device. It has TWO channels. That is all.

You cannot send 5.1 to it either via USB or optical.

End of.


----------



## willowbrook

Wait so...the USB input for micro idsd is a female USB type A? If I have a USB cable that has both male type A&B like http://www.usdigital.com/assets/images/galleries/ca-ua-usb-ub.jpg , is there an adapter that allows male type b to male type a?
  
 OR
  
 Is it a type a male USB embedded into the micro idsd? and you need a type b female to type a female?...Very confusing, but from the pictures, it seems like this is correct.


----------



## Koolpep

willowbrook said:


> Wait so...the USB input for micro idsd is a female USB type A? If I have a USB cable that has both male type A&B like http://www.usdigital.com/assets/images/galleries/ca-ua-usb-ub.jpg , is there an adapter that allows male type b to male type a?
> 
> OR
> 
> Is it a type a male USB embedded into the micro idsd? and you need a type b female to type a female?...Very confusing, but from the pictures, it seems like this is correct.




Yes it is a male usb embedded, so any usb extension cable works. However, ifi does provide you with an adapter in the box so the cable you posted works as well.


----------



## willowbrook

koolpep said:


> Yes it is a male usb embedded, so any usb extension cable works. However, ifi does provide you with an adapter in the box so the cable you posted works as well.


 
 Thanks. Also, how is the standalone USB charging when using eco mode? I do not want to use battery as much as possible when I have access to my computer. I heard if you plug in USB first and then power the device on, it will not use its internal battery. Let's say I have a charger like a phone charger. Can I plug that into the USB input to charge? Anyone know what the voltage and Amp requirement is? I have a 5.0V and a maximum 2.0A current draw charger.


----------



## Koolpep

willowbrook said:


> Thanks. Also, how is the standalone USB charging when using eco mode? I do not want to use battery as much as possible when I have access to my computer. I heard if you plug in USB first and then power the device on, it will not use its internal battery. Let's say I have a charger like a phone charger. Can I plug that into the USB input to charge? Anyone know what the voltage and Amp requirement is? I have a 5.0V and a maximum 2.0A current draw charger.


 

 The charger is good, it can and does charge when the battery is drained. However, there is no point  It actually has a sophisticated circuit and logic build in not to put any unnecessary stress on the battery.
  
 In eco mode - the battery won't be used at all. In normal and Turbo mode it "MIGHT" be used when the headphone requires it. But the moment it's not used it will switch back to charging. Unless the Class A operation needs more juice.
  
 Switch on micro before connecting - only battery operation, switch on after connecting to usb - "mains" unless boost needed to provide 4W in Turbo mode.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## willowbrook

koolpep said:


> The charger is good, it can and does charge when the battery is drained. However, there is no point  It actually has a sophisticated circuit and logic build in not to put any unnecessary stress on the battery.
> 
> In eco mode - the battery won't be used at all. In normal and Turbo mode it "MIGHT" be used when the headphone requires it. But the moment it's not used it will switch back to charging. Unless the Class A operation needs more juice.
> 
> ...




So, what you're saying is that USB power is most likely enough for most listening unless the unit needs more power for example on turbo mode? Driving something like a planar. At that point the unit will draw power from USB and battery correct? If it does not require power from battery, it will go back to charging+powering the main unit?


----------



## Koolpep

willowbrook said:


> So, what you're saying is that USB power is most likely enough for most listening unless the unit needs more power for example on turbo mode? Driving something like a planar. At that point the unit will draw power from USB and battery correct? If it does not require power from battery, it will go back to charging+powering the main unit?


 

 Yes.


----------



## willowbrook

koolpep said:


> Yes.




That is really awesome. I'm going to grab one this week and try it with my FLC8s. The DAC section excites me even more than the amp section.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

willowbrook said:


> That is really awesome. I'm going to grab one this week and try it with my FLC8s. The DAC section excites me even more than the amp section.


 

  It has a very wide feeling compared to other DAC's. I feel, like Brooko, that coloration is a driver thing but it does indeed present a wide field.
 Part of the reason I came back to it was that.


----------



## willowbrook

hawaiibadboy said:


> It has a very wide feeling compared to other DAC's. I feel, like Brooko, that coloration is a driver thing but it does indeed present a wide field.
> Part of the reason I came back to it was that.



Got a really awesome deal on mojo for around 430 USD compared to 300 USD for micro idsd almost at same age. I saw that you came back from mojo. I will be using IEM and no DSD or open headphones. I'd love the mojo portability, would you think 130 USD is worth the upgrade in terms of SQ?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

willowbrook said:


> Got a really awesome deal on mojo for around 430 USD compared to 300 USD for micro idsd almost at same age. I saw that you came back from mojo. I will be using IEM and no DSD or open headphones. I'd love the mojo portability, would you think 130 USD is worth the upgrade in terms of SQ?


 

 Mojo is excellent. iDSD micro suits me better. I am a basshead 1st but a stage head a close 2nd.
  

  
  
  

  
 Neither is so portable that folks won't notice it. Big wart v.s. bigger wart
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hate to be vague , but the good choice ...is the one you are happy with


----------



## Whitigir

hawaiibadboy said:


> Mojo is excellent. iDSD micro suits me better. I am a basshead 1st but a stage head a close 2nd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think we both are kinda similar here in taste .... Lol


----------



## willowbrook

hawaiibadboy said:


> Mojo is excellent. iDSD micro suits me better. I am a basshead 1st but a stage head a close 2nd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Went for the mojo, thanks for your suggestion. Too many unnecessary features of micro idsd and the thing looks quite big and heavy, so I think mojo is favorable for me. Two available 3.5mm output is very interesting too, could come useful when comparing.


----------



## howdy

willowbrook said:


> Went for the mojo, thanks for your suggestion. Too many unnecessary features of micro idsd and the thing looks quite big and heavy, so I think mojo is favorable for me. Two available 3.5mm output is very interesting too, could come useful when comparing.



 

You'll be coming back for the Micro, they all do.


----------



## willowbrook

howdy said:


> willowbrook said:
> 
> 
> > Went for the mojo, thanks for your suggestion. Too many unnecessary features of micro idsd and the thing looks quite big and heavy, so I think mojo is favorable for me. Two available 3.5mm output is very interesting too, could come useful when comparing.
> ...


 
 I really hope that isn't the case hehe...Frankly, I just want a lightweight/compact and sturdy DAC/amp combo that can produce detailed and clean output with some body. Currently have nothing but my laptop as source and I'm not even complaining. Although I am very excited to hear what is up with mojo being described as 'musical' everywhere.


----------



## Whitigir

Lol, talking about "body" I don't think Mojo is considered better than micro DSD. In my preferences, the micro IDSD is leap and bound away from mojo in Body density alone, not to mention sound stage


----------



## willowbrook

whitigir said:


> Lol, talking about "body" I don't think Mojo is considered better than micro DSD. In my preferences, the micro IDSD is leap and bound away from mojo in Body density alone, not to mention sound stage



Opinion varies way too much from people to people. I see a lot of micro sounding analytical/bright in treble region compared to mojo. I also see a lot of musicality thrown around when describing mojo. However, I come to this thread and so many prefer micro idsd to mojo. I saw a detailed comparison and maybe it sums it up right. I would never know because I've never heard of both. This is the review. http://www.head-fi.org/t/798562/portable-amp-dac-shootout-ifi-micro-idsd-vs-resonessence-concero-hp-vs-chord-mojo-vs-ifi-idac2-vs-hrt-microstreamer
It seems that something that mojo does to the midrange knocks people out.

People have different needs in terms of functionality too and I think that is a big factor when you consider both. I personally don't mind the lack of functionality and less battery capacity as I will just be plugging a charger in it while playing. I just need something to carry around different places.


----------



## Whitigir

willowbrook said:


> Opinion varies way too much from people to people. I see a lot of micro sounding analytical/bright in treble region compared to mojo. I also see a lot of musicality thrown around when describing mojo. However, I come to this thread and so many prefer micro idsd to mojo. I saw a detailed comparison and maybe it sums it up right. I would never know because I've never heard of both. This is the review. http://www.head-fi.org/t/798562/portable-amp-dac-shootout-ifi-micro-idsd-vs-resonessence-concero-hp-vs-chord-mojo-vs-ifi-idac2-vs-hrt-microstreamer
> It seems that something that mojo does to the midrange knocks people out.
> 
> People have different needs in terms of functionality too and I think that is a big factor when you consider both. I personally don't mind the lack of functionality and less battery capacity as I will just be plugging a charger in it while playing. I just need something to carry around different places.




That is fine, and totally understandable. I am sure you will be happy with the Mojo. Cheer !


----------



## warrior1975

Mids were rated a 10 on Mojo in his review.


----------



## Whitigir

warrior1975 said:


> Mids were rated a 10 on Mojo in his review.




I see, I took a quick look . I stand corrected. Anyways, enjoy your mojo


----------



## gr8soundz

willowbrook said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haven't heard the Mojo but I don't regret getting the Micro. Some of it's switches seem a bit much until you start using it. Song too recessed in the mids, switch to the Minimum Phase filter. Song needs more bass, switch on the Xbass. Headphones not sounding full enough, switch to Turbo power with (maybe) High Sensitivity on the IEMatch switch.
  
 The Micro is like 5 different dacs and 3 amps rolled into one.
  
 As for size, nothing against the Mojo, but Chord are coming out with a usb attachment that has a recessed usb connector (for CCK) like the Micro. Read its also to help 'lengthen' the Mojo and keep rubber bands off middle of the transport screen. More pics in this post: 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-please-read-the-3rd-post/12540#post_12399581
  

  
 Looks a lot closer to the Micro's size with that but still more expensive (don't know how much extra the attachment will be), no analog input, and still missing much of the Micro's versatility.
  
 I'd love to have the Mojo as well as the Micro. I know it sounds great (if a little different like most dac/amps) and has some unique qualities but what would I really gain with it over the Micro? You've already seen head-fiers here return to the Micro from the Mojo which (imo) says a lot.


----------



## warrior1975

whitigir said:


> I see, I took a quick look . I stand corrected. Anyways, enjoy your mojo




Thanks bro. Trying to enjoy the ifi as well. I'm going to get one in the near future. Than I'll see which is better for myself.


----------



## willowbrook

gr8soundz said:


> Haven't heard the Mojo but I don't regret getting the Micro. Some of it's switches seem a bit much until you start using it. Song too recessed in the mids, switch to the Minimum Phase filter. Song needs more bass, switch on the Xbass. Headphones not sounding full enough, switch to Turbo power with (maybe) High Sensitivity on the IEMatch switch.
> 
> The Micro is like 5 different dacs and 3 amps rolled into one.
> 
> ...


 
 As you said, they are both excellent and probably close to each other and when it comes to functionality, micro is much better of course. I actually like the design of micro much more. If you have full sized cans to drive, I don't think one would hesitate to get one or the other and just go for the micro. However, when you plan to use them only with IEMs/CIEMs, makes you wonder what to get. I guess the hype has got me and only time will tell whether it was worth it or not. I can always sell it off and go for the micro if I feel that mojo is too smooth for me.


----------



## Sonic Defender

willowbrook said:


> As you said, they are both excellent and probably close to each other and when it comes to functionality, micro is much better of course. I actually like the design of micro much more. If you have full sized cans to drive, I don't think one would hesitate to get one or the other and just go for the micro. However, when you plan to use them only with IEMs/CIEMs, makes you wonder what to get. I guess the hype has got me and only time will tell whether it was worth it or not. I can always sell it off and go for the micro if I feel that mojo is too smooth for me.


 
 I'm sure you'll love the Mojo, everybody seems to very much like it. At this level of quality, we are talking very small differences and more preferences so I'm sure the Mojo will do it for you. And as you said, when you get bored of it (and you will) you can sell it and try the Micro or something else. I do love the Micro personally, never had the chance to try a Mojo as of yet.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I think I'm in the minority here by the sounds of it, but I don't feel the 3D circuitry heps at all. It seems to make the sound thinner and nasal like, losing some nice tonal thickness. That impression is with my TH 600 as a frame of reference.


----------



## warrior1975

sonic defender said:


> I'm sure you'll love the Mojo, everybody seems to very much like it. At this level of quality, we are talking very small differences and more preferences so I'm sure the Mojo will do it for you. And as you said, when you get bored of it (and you will) you can sell it and try the Micro or something else. I do love the Micro personally, never had the chance to try a Mojo as of yet.




Agreed. I'll offer my 2c in the next couple of weeks. The time has come to order the Micro. 

Still wondering if anyone here wants to do a trade temporarily? I'll send my mojo to you, you can compare, and when done send me the micro and you can even hold my mojo until I send your micro back so you aren't without a dac/amp. I have 2 mojos, so it doesn't matter to me.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> Agreed. I'll offer my 2c in the next couple of weeks. The time has come to order the Micro.
> 
> Still wondering if anyone here wants to do a trade temporarily? I'll send my mojo to you, you can compare, and when done send me the micro and you can even hold my mojo until I send your micro back so you aren't without a dac/amp. I have 2 mojos, so it doesn't matter to me.


 
 If it wasn't for the distance brother I would totally take you up on that offer, would love to hear the Mojo. Maybe we can do an exchange sometime where I send you my ATH WS99BT so you can test how good Apt X Bluetooth is.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> I think I'm in the minority here by the sounds of it, but I don't feel the 3D circuitry heps at all. It seems to make the sound thinner and nasal like, losing some nice tonal thickness. That impression is with my TH 600 as a frame of reference.




Agreed, I don't think I like either x-bass or 3d that much. I always prefer them in the off position


----------



## warrior1975

sonic defender said:


> If it wasn't for the distance brother I would totally take you up on that offer, would love to hear the Mojo. Maybe we can do an exchange sometime where I send you my ATH WS99BT so you can test how good Apt X Bluetooth is.




Thanks bro, I appreciate the offer!! I'm hoping I can get a listen, otherwise I'm buying blind... As usual. I'm fairly certain I'll like it. Just not doing amazon, as it's overpriced there.


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Agreed, I don't think I like either x-bass or 3d that much. I always prefer them in the off position


 
 Ditto, I leave them off as well. I'm sure in some scenarios they may provide benefit, but not for me. The Micro is a damn fine sounding device. I love the TH 600 with it. I have to dial back a few treble frequencies just a little via JRivre's parametric EQ, but with those adjustments damn the TH 600s are fine sounding headphones. The $450 I paid for my mint second-hand (less than 100 hours) is an absolute steal.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> Thanks bro, I appreciate the offer!! I'm hoping I can get a listen, otherwise I'm buying blind... As usual. I'm fairly certain I'll like it. Just not doing amazon, as it's overpriced there.


 
 I bought blind, no regrets at all. As much as I loved the DP-X1, while I know they are different devices, I consider the Micro a much better investment.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> I bought blind, no regrets at all. As much as I loved the DP-X1, while I know they are different devices, I consider the Micro a much better investment.




Agreed again


----------



## warrior1975

sonic defender said:


> I bought blind, no regrets at all. As much as I loved the DP-X1, while I know they are different devices, I consider the Micro a much better investment.




I know I'll at least like it very much. Plus it has all those cool switches. I love that. I just pmed someone here for a used one, also might just buy new. A very nice member pmed me with an offer for a review sample. Looks like I may get to try it anyway.

Not that I'm unhappy with Mojo... Furthest thing from the truth... You know how it is. Always searching...


----------



## Whitigir

warrior1975 said:


> I know I'll at least like it very much. Plus it has all those cool switches. I love that. I just pmed someone here for a used one, also might just buy new. A very nice member pmed me with an offer for a review sample. Looks like I may get to try it anyway.
> 
> Not that I'm unhappy with Mojo... Furthest thing from the truth... You know how it is. Always searching...




Ugradatis syndrome lol....every enthusiast got it. Consider yourself lucky when you don't have this syndrome toward cars wheels and tires. I have a friend who is crazy about his car wheels and tires. He love selling, buying them. I once asked him why, he told me that to him, whenever the cars boots are swapped, he feels and sees it as a new car


----------



## warrior1975

Lol. Yes, never was into getting new wheels and rims for my cars... The cars themselves were/are bad enough. I never upgraded my car... Until one day, and it was downhill. I ended up putting about $15k into an already super expensive car. Another rabbit hole I don't want to ever go down again.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> I know I'll at least like it very much. Plus it has all those cool switches. I love that. I just pmed someone here for a used one, also might just buy new. A very nice member pmed me with an offer for a review sample. Looks like I may get to try it anyway.
> 
> Not that I'm unhappy with Mojo... Furthest thing from the truth... You know how it is. Always searching...


 
 Always searching brother, never want to stop. I generally move my gear at most after a year (with the exception of my speaker rig). I want to try new sound signatures so I'm willing to take the 20-30% hit on gear when I move it out.


----------



## warrior1975

I hear you bro. Twice I purchased IEMS knowing I'd sell them. I just wanted to hear them. The first I took a hit, because I wanted to sell it quick, the other I could have made money. Bought the 64 ears U8 at $425...or in that vicinity. No way I could lose.


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> Bought the 64 ears U8 at $425...or in that vicinity. No way I could lose.


 
 screwk me I guess you couldn't. Nice score.


----------



## warrior1975

Just paying it forward. I could have flipped them on ebay, but I didn't feel comfortable. I'm not starving for money, not that I don't need more. Just didn't feel right doing that to our community. Someone else that actually wanted them would have grabbed them at that price.


----------



## chillaxing

warrior1975 said:


> Agreed. I'll offer my 2c in the next couple of weeks. The time has come to order the Micro.
> 
> Still wondering if anyone here wants to do a trade temporarily? I'll send my mojo to you, you can compare, and when done send me the micro and you can even hold my mojo until I send your micro back so you aren't without a dac/amp. I have 2 mojos, so it doesn't matter to me.


 
  
  
 I use mine everyday but i'll lend it to a brotha.  No need for the mojo


----------



## Sonic Defender

warrior1975 said:


> Just paying it forward. I could have flipped them on ebay, but I didn't feel comfortable. I'm not starving for money, not that I don't need more. Just didn't feel right doing that to our community. Someone else that actually wanted them would have grabbed them at that price.


 
 That is solid of you. I guess if somebody is tight for cash I can see wanting to make a little from a good opportunity, but as you said, you are doing okay where the cash flow is concerned so it is nice that you realise that and pay it forward. Good karma mate.


----------



## warrior1975

chillaxing said:


> I use mine everyday but i'll lend it to a brotha.  No need for the mojo




Thanks bro, greatly appreciated. Someone else offered last night, so I'm good. Thank you anyway, it's greatly appreciated. 

Sonic Defender Thanks bro. Several months back I couldn't have been so generous, but fortunately business is booming. Right now, I'm doing better than I've done in over a decade.


----------



## Whitigir

Oh my ghost....I am crazy......today I have made a balanced cables for the D1000 to go balanced mode with the PHA-3. Now I will be able to compare between PHA-3 balanced to d1000 vs micro IDSD.


----------



## Koolpep

chillaxing said:


> I use mine everyday but i'll lend it to a brotha.  No need for the mojo




Heart warming!!

Group hug. Since I am not in the US customs and shipping cost won't make it feasible to participate. 

Love the spirit!!!


----------



## warrior1975

Very nice, please share your results bro. I've never heard the PHA 3,but did own the PHA 2, which I liked, just found it a little too bulky for portable use.


----------



## Whitigir

warrior1975 said:


> Very nice, please share your results bro. I've never heard the PHA 3,but did own the PHA 2, which I liked, just found it a little too bulky for portable use.




PHA-3 problem is that it needs to get the burn-in to settle all of it capacitors. I am surprised by Sony using the same brand, kind, similar, but different capacitors for PHA-3 compares to Zx2....but they never users to Burn-in, where as Zx2 displayed the 100 hours burn-in on the first use. PHA-3 needs at the least 150 hours....everything before that and the PHA-3 is very very boring and lacking.

Compare to IFI micro IDSD: I think IFI carry that unique inner fidelity and energies (observable by low to mid spectrums), where as PHA-3 is to offer the unique spacious soundstage, clarity and separations in balanced mode and sharp snappy but energetic bass line.) For the mass who doesn't want to bother looking for balanced cables or spend more money to upgrade, out of the box, I would prefer IFI micro IDSD for ease of use and unique warmth, sound and energies signature with smooth trebles and 4000mW of power. For people who love to seek for the better out of their equipments, love balanced connection and that Spherical holographic soundstage, who can and will access upgrade cables, the PHA-3 offers the affordability and sonically quality in it price range as a whole package (portable, balanced, audio quality, form, function)....except the low power and lack of AC adapter if you care. If I dare to put it out here, even at new MSRP $999 usd, the PHA-3 is more than worthy of it features/price/performance. When you can buy a used one in great condition for 1/2 the price ? It is a "must"

Notice PHA-3 single ended is not comparable to micro DSD.


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> PHA-3 problem is that it needs to get the burn-in to settle all of it capacitors. I am surprised by Sony using the same brand, kind, similar, but different capacitors for PHA-3 compares to Zx2....but they never users to Burn-in, where as Zx2 displayed the 100 hours burn-in on the first use. PHA-3 needs at the least 150 hours....everything before that and the PHA-3 is very very boring and lacking.
> 
> Compare to IFI micro IDSD: I think IFI carry that unique inner fidelity and energies (observable by low to mid spectrums), where as PHA-3 is to offer the unique spacious soundstage, clarity and separations in balanced mode and sharp snappy but energetic bass line.) For the mass who doesn't want to bother looking for balanced cables or spend more money to upgrade, out of the box, I would prefer IFI micro IDSD for ease of use and unique warmth, sound and energies signature with smooth trebles and 4000mW of power. For people who love to seek for the better out of their equipments, love balanced connection and that Spherical holographic soundstage, who can and will access upgrade cables, the PHA-3 offers the affordability and sonically quality in it price range as a whole package (portable, balanced, audio quality, form, function)....except the low power and lack of AC adapter if you care. If I dare to put it out here, even at new MSRP $999 usd, the PHA-3 is more than worthy of it features/price/performance. When you can buy a used one in great condition for 1/2 the price ? It is a "must"
> 
> Notice PHA-3 single ended is not comparable to micro DSD.


 
 I owned the PHA3 and used it balanced with the Z7 and I wouldn't pay that kind of money for it at all. Certainly it should not cost more than the Micro, I don't think it sounds better on any measure. Just my opinion. I liked the PHA3 very much, but I sold it as there was no way it was worth  that money to me, certainly not when you factor in the modest power output.


----------



## warrior1975

I felt similar with the PHA 2... Wasn't worth the money, although it did sound very good. A bit overpriced.


----------



## willowbrook

warrior1975 said:


> Just paying it forward. I could have flipped them on ebay, but I didn't feel comfortable. I'm not starving for money, not that I don't need more. Just didn't feel right doing that to our community. Someone else that actually wanted them would have grabbed them at that price.


 
 ebay takes something like 10% or something...damn ebay...


----------



## Whitigir

warrior1975 said:


> I felt similar with the PHA 2... Wasn't worth the money, although it did sound very good. A bit overpriced.




I don't think there is any other amp that is portable and offer balanced out like PHA-3 at this moment. I saw a member bought a practically new PHA-3 for $400. It was used for less than 10 hours lol


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> I don't think there is any other amp that is portable and offer balanced out like PHA-3 at this moment. I saw a member bought a practically new PHA-3 for $400. It was used for less than 10 hours lol


 
 Yes $400 I could swallow, $999, not a chance in hell the PHA3 is worth that. The Liquid Carbon is also transportable, neither are portable if you mean stuffed in a pocket on the bus. I used the PHA3 that way for a time, but it was just plain impractical bordering on stupid of me to do so. I think you meant DAC amp combination right? In which case me saying the LC was incorrect as it is just an amp, but it does offer balanced.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Yes $400 I could swallow, $999, not a chance in hell the PHA3 is worth that. The Liquid Carbon is also transportable, neither are portable if you mean stuffed in a pocket on the bus. I used the PHA3 that way for a time, but it was just plain impractical bordering on stupid of me to do so. I think you meant DAC amp combination right? In which case me saying the LC was incorrect as it is just an amp, but it does offer balanced.




Yeah, I meant DAC/amp  . You are correct, I didn't pay 999.99 for mine either. The PHA-3 needs the balanced connection to shine, and if you paired PHA-3 balanced into stock Z7....it has a lot of boom and bang...  Z7 needs modifications to sound like a high-end headphones. I judge the PHA-3 MSRP according to the market as there are nothing like it yet....the micro DSD has that unique tonal body and energies where the PHA-3 lacks, and PHA-3 has those soundstage, clarity and separation on another level with balanced connection. It is hard to swallow the sacrificial of the unique tonal body for larger soundstage and clarity. In a sense, if one has a hard time to choose between PHA-3 and micro DSD. I say just grab micro DSD and run .

What I meant is that micro DSD does has that spherical and holographic soundstage as the PHA-3 does, it is only that PHA-3 balanced has more expansive staging and spaciousness, and of course together with less tonal body thickness, it has more separation and clarity. That is why micro DSD is more favorably preferable in comparison. If I could, I would get both lol...

Again, micro DSD with only single ended out totally is leaping away from PHA-3 single ended.


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Yeah, I meant DAC/amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That may be the case, but I still would never pay a cent over $550 Canadian for the PHA3. It is a lovely sounding device, but paying 1K is simply insane. I get the build quality thing, but I would not pay a $300 premium for build quality alone, I could live with rigid plastic as there is no such thing as case resonance in any meaningful way, definitely not for headphone use. Why would you need an expensive think metal case? we baby our gear.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> That may be the case, but I still would never pay a cent over $550 Canadian for the PHA3. It is a lovely sounding device, but paying 1K is simply insane. I get the build quality thing, but I would not pay a $300 premium for build quality alone, I could live with rigid plastic as there is no such thing as case resonance in any meaningful way, definitely not for headphone use. Why would you need an expensive think metal case? we baby our gear.




The idea of casing being metal is for reliability and ultimately to resist Interferences


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> The idea of casing being metal is for reliability and ultimately to resist Interferences


 
 Well, I sort of agree, but I do wonder if really decent rigid plastic casings don't work just as well. I mean we can shield cables with soft material. I may be oversimplifying things as I really am not that knowledgeable about interference,  and I do myself like a metal case, but it has to make sense from a financial/performance point of view. Maybe it does and I'm over-estimating how much money goes into metal versus ridged plastic construction.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Well, I sort of agree, but I do wonder if really decent rigid plastic casings don't work just as well. I mean we can shield cables with soft material. I may be oversimplifying things as I really am not that knowledgeable about interference,  and I do myself like a metal case, but it has to make sense from a financial/performance point of view. Maybe it does and I'm over-estimating how much money goes into metal versus ridged plastic construction.




Cables with it twisted multi stranded thin wires do generate it own EMF when electrons flow in it. Being an amplifier, there are many other components which can not be twisted in a continuous way to generate a good EMF shield to resist interferences. Therefore, metal casing. Aluminum is not ideal as it is not much of a conductive metals the more conductive the better to resist EMI. However aluminum is tough and hard. Ideally it needs to has gold plated as well for the best resistivities toward strong interferences....but that will cost even more


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Cables with it twisted multi stranded thin wires do generate it own EMF when electrons flow in it. Being an amplifier, there are many other components which can not be twisted in a continuous way to generate a good EMF shield to resist interferences. Therefore, metal casing. Aluminum is not ideal as it is not much of a conductive metals the more conductive the better to resist EMI. However aluminum is tough and hard. Ideally it needs to has gold plated as well for the best resistivities toward strong interferences....but that will cost even more


 
 When do you get these strong interferences? My house has plenty of wireless going on, computers running, normal North American home, and when I use the Micro even with my phone via OTG, lying right beside my laptop, I don't get any issues. I sometimes think we solve problems before they exist, or we elevate the issues beyond their realistic impact for the majority of users.


----------



## sandalaudio

sonic defender said:


> When do you get these strong interferences? My house has plenty of wireless going on, computers running, normal North American home, and when I use the Micro even with my phone via OTG, lying right beside my laptop, I don't get any issues. I sometimes think we solve problems before they exist, or we elevate the issues beyond their realistic impact for the majority of users.


 
  
 The main reason why aluminium is used is because it's cheap ehough. Even for DIY projects and budget small batch Chinese DACs, the aluminium chassis are only a few dollars more than an equivalent plastic one. Also considering the iFi chassis is extruded in long metres and cut to measure as needed, it might be more economical compared to investing in plastic molds for each model they bring out.
  
 The necessity for shielding might be overstated for analogue audio circuits, but it makes sense to have at least some shielding for the USB interface and D/A section because they are prone to glitches particularly at high sample rate data transfer (with DSD256/PCM768kHz, it's at the verge of USB2.0 speed limit). iFi also has a custom coded microprocessor inside which is sensitive to power glitches.
  
 Just as an example I pulled out a micro iDAC from the chassis and sent a text message with my phone sitting beside it, and that caused music to have a spontaneous glitch sound (like blip blip). Similar problems happen to varying degrees, like my micro iDAC2 goes crazy if I have the USB Xbox one Wireless controller transmitter dongle sitting beside it, even with the iDAC2 in its chassis.
  
 Thin gold or copper plating might be like 10% more effective at bouncing MHz high frequency electromagnetic noise, so Marantz etc used to do it, but more for fancyness factor that makes the owners proud of the glitter. Aluminium is pretty good (and more easy to handle than solid cast iron case) even for low frequency magnetic field (like mains hum) so that's why it's chosen.
  
 The funniest example was with a particular USB speakers I bought (obviously not an iFi product), it had no shielding against quasi-DC so the amp circuit picked up AM radio station and the speakers started playing music all on its own (because AM is just a signal strength = sound).


----------



## Mr-Nice

New here, I have a dap ( sony zx2 ) which is driving my jhaudio angie's
  
 I feel I need more power so I guess I need an amp
  
 Would you advise me to get something like the ifi micro dsd or ifi ican ?? I know the micro dsd has a dac, is the dac in ifi micro dsd superior to the one in zx2 ?
  
 My goal is to get more power and bass, and I like the fact that ifi micro dsd has a bass boost, so do you think its good to get the micro dsd and by that I will get a better dac with more power
  
 Cheers


----------



## technobear

mr-nice said:


> New here, I have a dap ( sony zx2 ) which is driving my jhaudio angie's
> 
> I feel I need more power so I guess I need an amp




The Angie's sensitivity is 117 db/mW.

The ZX2 is capable of putting far more than 1 mW into the Angie.



Either you are already deaf or you soon will be.


----------



## Whitigir

mr-nice said:


> New here, I have a dap ( sony zx2 ) which is driving my jhaudio angie's
> 
> I feel I need more power so I guess I need an amp
> 
> ...




Yes , if you need an external DAC/amp. The micro IDSD will do very well


----------



## kingdixon

mr-nice said:


> New here, I have a dap ( sony zx2 ) which is driving my jhaudio angie's
> 
> I feel I need more power so I guess I need an amp
> 
> ...


 
  


technobear said:


> The Angie's sensitivity is 117 db/mW.
> 
> The ZX2 is capable of putting far more than 1 mW into the Angie.
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL, thats exactly what i was wondering,
  
 Iam using angie with my Japanese zx2 and at 60% volume, its pretty loud and driven very well, and i don't think any amp will add to that but subtle changes in my opinion .. i get my amps for hard to drive inefficient headphones.
  
 so what are you lacking there ? volume ? or did you listen to angie with other equipment that made her sound better (what is it then ?)
  
 if you still going to get an amp, while the idsd is really amazing in sound quality, but i find it overkilling for the zx2, you will only use zx2 as a high quality transport and the battery will only last like 5 hours, and if your going to use it as an amp only to preserve battery its just not the best amp in the world, i think you should go for a nice amp only.


----------



## quodjo105

I'm looking for a very good digital transport to use with my idsd . I currently have the dx90 which has served me well for sometime . There's nothing wrong with it , but I'm kinda wish it had a bigger screen, a better ui and a battery that lasts longer .I can't use my cellphone as a transport because I rely on it for too many things . I've thought about the dx80. Is there anything else I should be looking at ?.. my budget is up to $400


----------



## Aegruin

technobear said:


> The Angie's sensitivity is 117 db/mW.
> 
> The ZX2 is capable of putting far more than 1 mW into the Angie.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Europe version of ZX2 has a volume limitation. It's %100 is like other ZX2's %60 volume. This is why you would need an amp for the Europe version of ZX2. Complete nonsense those limitations.
 I think iDSD Micro would be overkill as an amp to ZX2 because, honestly iDSD is better than ZX2 on the DAC side.


----------



## Whitigir

aegruin said:


> Europe version of ZX2 has a volume limitation. It's %100 is like other ZX2's %60 volume. This is why you would need an amp for the Europe version of ZX2. Complete nonsense those limitations.
> I think iDSD Micro would be overkill as an amp to ZX2 because, honestly iDSD is better than ZX2 on the DAC side.




And exactly that is an additional reason to buy micro IDSD for zx2. There is nothing like Zx2 as a standalone dap on the market, and then when power is needed, you can always LOD to the micro DSD or even digitally feeding it 

Voila, best of both worlds: portable, and semi transportable solutions

Also, do consider PHA-3 balanced as well


----------



## sandalaudio

quodjo105 said:


> I'm looking for a very good digital transport to use with my idsd . I currently have the dx90 which has served me well for sometime . There's nothing wrong with it , but I'm kinda wish it had a bigger screen, a better ui and a battery that lasts longer .I can't use my cellphone as a transport because I rely on it for too many things . I've thought about the dx80. Is there anything else I should be looking at ?.. my budget is up to $400


 
  
 How about buying some cheap smartphone and use it in flight mode?
  
 Actually I've been looking for a good cheap smartphone for this exact purpose myself, if anyone has good suggestions.
  
 It needs to be snappy enough to run the Onkyo app, with good touch screen response and minimum amount of junk apps.
 I've got many DSD albums so OTG from Android is preferrable to S/PDIF from a DAP into micro iDSD.
  
 I've been using an iPod but it's tedious to transfer data.


----------



## howdy

quodjo105 said:


> I'm looking for a very good digital transport to use with my idsd . I currently have the dx90 which has served me well for sometime . There's nothing wrong with it , but I'm kinda wish it had a bigger screen, a better ui and a battery that lasts longer .I can't use my cellphone as a transport because I rely on it for too many things . I've thought about the dx80. Is there anything else I should be looking at ?.. my budget is up to $400



I have the DX80 with the Micro and it is the perfect source as it has the same battery life a nice big screen big buttons in the front like the DX90 and optical output.


----------



## Sonic Defender

sandalaudio said:


> How about buying some cheap smartphone and use it in flight mode?
> 
> Actually I've been looking for a good cheap smartphone for this exact purpose myself, if anyone has good suggestions.
> 
> ...


 
 I use my G3 via OTG with the Micro very nicely. And I do run ONKYO HF Player as well as Neutron perfectly.


----------



## sandalaudio

sonic defender said:


> I use my G3 via OTG with the Micro very nicely. And I do run ONKYO HF Player as well as Neutron perfectly.


 
  
 Thanks. I will check it out.
  
 Maybe someone's already done it, but there should be some recommendations of what android phone would be good as a DAC transport.
 Basically it needs:
  
 - No annoying apps
 - Long battery life
 - Quad core (seems to be a requirement for Onkyo app)
 - Smooth touch screen experience
 - Support 200GB micro SD
 etc..
  
 Considering how many OTG compatible USB DACs are out there in the market, some company should make a high quality "transport" player i.e. Android with no DAC/amp but just OTG and S/PDIF, with dual micro SD. That would be cool.
  
 High end CD players had separate disc transport and DAC. People are building audiophile PCs purely for music playback. Now it's the smartphones turn to do the same thing....


----------



## ClintonL

I'm looking at getting one of these for a HD800. Anyone have one and can comment on if they power them well? Also how would this compare sound quality wise to an ODAC.
  
 Cheers


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

clintonl said:


> I'm looking at getting one of these for a HD800. Anyone have one and can comment on if they power them well? Also how would this compare sound quality wise to an ODAC.
> 
> Cheers


 
 I don't have the hd800 so I can't tell, but as a DAC, the iFi iDAC2 blows the ODAC out of the water. I got so impressed I ordered the iDSD Micro right away and I do believe it'll be better.


----------



## Dadracer

I use a pair of HD800s with an iDSD micro for streaming Tidal from a laptop and it is a remarkably good combination and you can even add a little bass if needed! I cannot comment about the ODAC as I haven't tried it.


----------



## Whitigir

Micro DSD should be a very well company when paired with hd800 as the micro is warmer and hd800 is more analytical


----------



## ClintonL

Any of you tried the matrix i mini vs the micro?


----------



## Sonic Defender

sandalaudio said:


> Thanks. I will check it out.
> 
> 
> Considering how many OTG compatible USB DACs are out there in the market, some company should make a high quality "transport" player i.e. Android with no DAC/amp but just OTG and S/PDIF, with dual micro SD. That would be cool.


 
 I suspect the marketplace for such a device would be far too small for any viable scale of economy manufacturing and as such not likely to fly. What might be cool is if somebody found a way to do an Android ROM that removed all unneeded audio features to make this a possibility. I'm not sure technically what hardware is required to actually send out an audio stream via USB. You might be able to do this just with the SoC and cancel all Androind audio processing beyond allowing a raw digital stream through. Not sure mind you.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote:


sandalaudio said:


> Considering how many OTG compatible USB DACs are out there in the market, some company should make a high quality "transport" player i.e. Android with no DAC/amp but just OTG and S/PDIF, with dual micro SD. That would be cool.
> ...


 
  
FiiO T3?


----------



## sandalaudio

clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> FiiO T3?


 
 Oh wow!
  
 That's exactly what I wanted


----------



## Mosabexo

Hello All, 
  
 What would be best to hook up/connect the idsd to a PS4 ? 
  
 This is the outputs of a PS4 
  

  
  

  
  
  
 I'm not sure if a regular SPDIF cable would work here. 
  
 Any help is appreciated!


----------



## CFGamescape

mosabexo said:


> Hello All,
> 
> What would be best to hook up/connect the idsd to a PS4 ?
> 
> ...


 
 You could do optical, but you won't get 5.1, as the iDSD is a stereo device.


----------



## Whitigir

For computer and ps usage, why don't you use creative x7


----------



## Aegruin

mosabexo said:


> Hello All,
> 
> What would be best to hook up/connect the idsd to a PS4 ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 PS4 has a Toslink output and iDSD has a Mini-Toslink input. iDSD should come with a Toslink to Mini-Toslink converter but I'm not quite sure that connection can be made between those devices. I didn't try.
 And the sound will be stereo, you should consider that.


----------



## Mosabexo

> You could do optical, but you won't get 5.1, as the iDSD is a stereo device.


 
  
 I don't know why I was disappointed that it won't. It did work! Thanks much 
  


> For computer and ps usage, why don't you use creative x7


 
  
 I've been pairing the idsd with the emotiva a-100 for pc and it has been wonderful. I plan to do the same with the PS4. Is the x7 any better ?


----------



## Mosabexo

> PS4 has a Toslink output and iDSD has a Mini-Toslink input. iDSD should come with a Toslink to Mini-Toslink converter but I'm not quite sure that connection can be made between those devices. I didn't try.
> And the sound will be stereo, you should consider that.


 
  
 Fortunately, it can be done. It's true you need a Toslink to Mini-Toslink. I'm not sure though if I got a converter. I used an Audio Quest Cable. 
  
 Sound quality is far more important to me than surround-sound-gaming-crab. The latter in most cases if not always sacrifice sound quality and that's apart from the fact that it's ****ty with any stereo recorded music.


----------



## Sonic Defender

mosabexo said:


> I don't know why I was disappointed that it won't. It did work! Thanks much


 
 Are you saying it does output 5.1? That isn't possible as far as I know. It may just be your receiver taking the 2 channel audio and faking 5.1, but I can't see how it would be outputting 5.1 discreet channels when it does not have the DSP instruction set to do so. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?


----------



## Mosabexo

Sonic Defender No absolutely not haha. I meant that the connection can be made and there is sound. Not that it is surround sound in any way.


----------



## oceandream1

hello,
  
 i tried the ifi nano. was not impressed. do you think its worth trying the micro? i feel nano did not offer enough clarity and detail and also lacked a bit of punch. would like to hear from people who have tried both micro and nano. 
  
 other products i am considering in similar price range are:
  
 1) ps audio sprout
 2) geekout v2/v2+
 3Sony UDA-1
 4) *Teac AI-301DA*
*5) NAD D 1050*
*6) Korg Audiogate DS-DAC-100*
  
*would really appreciate someone who has experience with more then one product. basically i am looking for amp + dac solution for use mainly with my laptop. my main priority is sound quality. i would prefer portability (use with phones etc) but can sacrifice it for greater sound quality.*
  
*currently i have x2 fidellio headphones. but i am looking too see if i can buy the hd600s by sennheiser. thanks *


----------



## ClieOS

oceandream1 said:


> hello,
> 
> i tried the ifi nano. was not impressed. do you think its worth trying the micro? i feel nano did not offer enough clarity and detail and also lacked a bit of punch. would like to hear from people who have tried both micro and nano.
> 
> *...*


 
  
 While Nano's DAC section is excellent, the amp section is definitely adequate but not impressive. Micro's on the other hand is on a totally different level of performance. Not only the DAC section is better than Nano, the amp section is pretty much a beast. I still won't call the amp section the best of the best among portable amps, but it is pretty close.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

A friend told me that the idsd micro contains the whole board of the ican, is that correct?


----------



## Hisoundfi

sonic defender said:


> I think I'm in the minority here by the sounds of it, but I don't feel the 3D circuitry heps at all. It seems to make the sound thinner and nasal like, losing some nice tonal thickness. That impression is with my TH 600 as a frame of reference.


If you have any overly warm, dark or bass heavy earphones, give the 3d switch a chance. I think it will make you appreciate the switch and find new life in the cans that benefit from this feature.


----------



## Sonic Defender

clieos said:


> While Nano's DAC section is excellent, the amp section is definitely adequate but not impressive. Micro's on the other hand is on a totally different level of performance. Not only the DAC section is better than Nano, the amp section is pretty much a beast. I still won't call the amp section the best of the best among portable amps, but it is pretty close.


 
 I haven't tried a massive amount of portable amplifiers, but I do have enough audio experience to know you are bang on, the amplifier section is pretty damn good. Certainly at this price point I find it hard not to think the Micro has to be one of the better price/performance units in this category. I like the DAC as well, seems to have just a hair of warmth, but that could be my imagination.


----------



## ClieOS

williamleonhart said:


> A friend told me that the idsd micro contains the whole board of the ican, is that correct?


 
  
 Not really. Micro iDSD and iCAN use similar output buffer stage (TPA6120A2 based), but the gain stage is different as iCAN has the more sophisticated fully discrete 'TubeState' implementation while micro iDSD, due to limitation of space, has an opamp based gain stage.. So they are not identical. While micro iDSD does have an really good amp section, iCAN is just better. The only downside is perhaps the original iCAN has a relatively small output, but the new iCAN SE has just as much output power as micro iDSD and sound as good as the original iCAN.


----------



## ClieOS

sonic defender said:


> I haven't tried a massive amount of portable amplifiers, but I do have enough audio experience to know you are bang on, the amplifier section is pretty damn good. Certainly at this price point I find it hard not to think the Micro has to be one of the better price/performance units in this category. I like the DAC as well, *seems to have just a hair of warmth*, but that could be my imagination.


 
  
 You can say that is perhaps what the famed Burr Brown / TI signature sound is all about, with just a touch of warmth and richness (*that is, if you believe the DAC has a sound signature). ESS Sabre for me often sounds the opposite that is more on the analytical and sterile side of things, which as I believe is one of the reason why for a long time many audiophile DAC maker try to avoid using ESS chips.


----------



## ClintonL

How does the amp compare to a vahalla 2 for hd800's.


----------



## Sonic Defender

clieos said:


> You can say that is perhaps what the famed Burr Brown / TI signature sound is all about, with just a touch of warmth and richness (*that is, if you believe the DAC has a sound signature). ESS Sabre for me often sounds the opposite that is more on the analytical and sterile side of things, which as I believe is one of the reason why for a long time many audiophile DAC maker try to avoid using ESS chips.


 
 I think DAC implementations can have a tuning, and as you said, I have always found Burr Brown based DACs to have a nice warm, but detailed enough sound. I think the better older iPods like the Video which I liked were Burr Brown based as well. It seems the newer ESS chips are less strident. Recently I had a DP-X1 which was ESS based and I rather liked it. perhaps a little more warmth, but frankly, I think the headphone choice will be more influential and I used it with a PM3 so it was quite nice I thought.


----------



## chillaxing

mosabexo said:


> Hello All,
> 
> What would be best to hook up/connect the idsd to a PS4 ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 you can use optical or usb.  
  
 I use optical to since the usb is for my comp
  
 xbox1 > turble beach transmitter > idsd > vintage amp


----------



## GerMan

Hi everyone!
  
 New to this forum. Read that ifi micro idsd sonically is said to be a bit on the bright side. Decided to give it a try anyway. First impression after three days is that it is really important not to pair it with the "wrong" headphone. 
  
 My AKG K-702 seems not to be the right choice.
  
 Being a very precise, detailed and open headphone the sound with micro idsd is too bright for me, sometimes near aching. Tried all filter positions, 3D cannot be used at all, as it sounds even brighter. 
  
 What is more ifi micro idsd is said to drive any headphone. Maybe it is loud enough for all HF, but AKG 702 sounds a bit "underpowered", a bit limp, not dynamic. Switching to Audioquest Dragonfly and YES, power and pressure is back again.
  
 Hearing flac files with pc, using JRiver MC and foobar2000 with WASAPI, all settings as recommended by ifi and JRiver, latest driver and firmware from ifi. 
  
 Any suggestions? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
  
 Thank you.
  
 GerMan


----------



## oceandream1

hw is it possible tht dragon fly has more power. ifi has power to drive anything under the sun. gon change amp setting. read the manual


----------



## gr8soundz

german said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> New to this forum. Read that ifi micro idsd sonically is said to be a bit on the bright side. Decided to give it a try anyway. First impression after three days is that it is really important not to pair it with the "wrong" headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Try using the filter/power switches on the side and maybe the IE match switch underneath. You may find a combination that works better for your headphones.
  
 My HD598s also sounded a bit bright (and thin) with the Micro so I tried Turbo power with the IE Match on High and it made a difference.


----------



## oceandream1

would the turbo power fry the hd598 . i dont think they can stand that much power


----------



## GerMan

Of course I studied the manual, I'm a manual reader 
  
 Tried all combinations of filter/power switches. Turbo power not possible as I get to 8 o'clock at volume knob which is bad for channel balance.
  
 @oceandream1: try out Dragonfly, you would be astonished of its pressure and dynamics.


----------



## gr8soundz

oceandream1 said:


> would the turbo power fry the hd598 . i dont think they can stand that much power


 
  
 Not if you use IE Match at the same time. Keep the volume low, hit the switches, then connect the headphones.
  
 Headphones should be safe as long as you don't turn the dial to max volume.


----------



## oceandream1

its technically not possible for dragon fly to offfer more power. i am not mathematical person. but basic amp power rating should tell u. unless i totally dont understand how amps work


----------



## oceandream1

Turbo mode10.0V/4,000 mW @ 16 Ohm max>1560 mW @ 64 Ohm continuous
  
 sennheiser is rate for 500mw max power input is around 30 ohm impedence, even half the volume should be too much. correct me if i am wrong


----------



## Aegruin

german said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> New to this forum. Read that ifi micro idsd sonically is said to be a bit on the bright side. Decided to give it a try anyway. First impression after three days is that it is really important not to pair it with the "wrong" headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The opposite.
 702 has a very curved impedance and phase graph. Curve increases in the high-mids and trebles. High-Mids makes the sound thinner and that can be misunderstood like it's "underpowered".
 Increase on the Trebles makes a headphone more brighter.
 At the end, that curve indicates 702 will be much more brighter and thinner with iDSD compared to something that can't drive 702.(like Audioquest)
  
 To my understanding, you don't need something that can give more power, you need the opposite. More power will always make AKG702 sound like this.
  
 If you like a darker and thick sounding headphone(it seems you would like it) I would recommend a HD650. And it would be a good pair with iDSD.


----------



## PotatoWhisperer

Does anybody know how the build quality of this unit is? Can I bet on this serving me well for several years without issues or are there common known issues that plague the product?


----------



## chillaxing

oceandream1 said:


> would the turbo power fry the hd598 . i dont think they can stand that much power


 
  
  
 I use it on turbo with no filters with my Sony mdr 7550.
  
 hasn't fried the 7550 yet and i've had the volume knob up to 11-12 o'clock.
  
 But i'm also a eq head, so take that fwiw.
  
 the 7550 are also rated at 500mw
  
  
 Just know that 4000mw is peak power.  that means in order to get that ouput your gonna need the volume knob at max.


----------



## gr8soundz

oceandream1 said:


> Turbo mode10.0V/4,000 mW @ 16 Ohm max>1560 mW @ 64 Ohm continuous
> 
> sennheiser is rate for 500mw max power input is around 30 ohm impedence, even half the volume should be too much. correct me if i am wrong


 
  
 Then don't try it. I have and was pleasantly surprised with the sound. No idea what the Micro's output power is with Turbo and IE Match both on.
  
 If you're going to pair everything by numbers then you'll need to buy more power hungry headphones to pair with the Micro (just to avoid any chance of damaging them). Also be sure not to plug your max 500mW headphones into any desktop amps as pretty much all of them put out more than 1W. Should also set your Micro to Eco when using those same headphones as Normal (on paper) is too powerful for them.
  
 Or you could get the regular iCan Micro to use as an external amp. It only outputs 400mW max so no change of damaging 500mW headphones but you may find yourself using the volume knob past 3:00 at times.


----------



## oceandream1

lol u seem quiet sarcastic in ur long passage. i was only trying to use logic to explain what i felt would work. i am no expert in this and nor do i have experience of using my headphones with more powerful. people with more technical knoweldge should know how this works in theory and how it relates to real world.  
  
 my itnetion is not to start argument but find the truth of how this works and that is why i posted the numbers and how i could best possibly interpret them with me limited to no knowledge. no need to get offended.


----------



## CFGamescape

chillaxing said:


> I use it on turbo with no filters with my Sony mdr 7550.
> 
> hasn't fried the 7550 yet and i've had the volume knob up to 11-12 o'clock.


 
 Wow. On Turbo, I can only increase the volume to about 10 o'clock with my Ether C. Even then, it gets quite fatiguing.


----------



## chillaxing

cfgamescape said:


> Wow. On Turbo, I can only increase the volume to about 10 o'clock with my Ether C. Even then, it gets quite fatiguing.




Just because I can get up there don't mean I stay up there 

Op was worried about the power output destroying his set. I was giving him an example. 

I usually stay around 9-10 o clock for listening levels. I went up that far to test the 7550.


----------



## gr8soundz

oceandream1 said:


> lol u seem quiet sarcastic in ur long passage. i was only trying to use logic to explain what i felt would work. i am no expert in this and nor do i have experience of using my headphones with more powerful. people with more technical knoweldge should know how this works in theory and *how it relates to real world*.
> 
> my itnetion is not to start argument but find the truth of how this works and that is why i posted the numbers and how i could best possibly interpret them with me limited to no knowledge. no need to get offended.


 
  
 No offense taken. Apologies for the bit of sarcasm but I didn't know what else to say.
  
 Myself (and at least 1 other user) are giving you real world examples that we've actually tried. In theory, many amps can damage headphones or speakers (and hearing) so the only way to avoid that is by being careful with the volume knob. 
  
 It's no different than cars with 700hp. Doesn't mean no one should drive them. Just means being more cautious with the throttle pedal.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

aegruin said:


> The opposite.
> 702 has a very curved impedance and phase graph. Curve increases in the high-mids and trebles. High-Mids makes the sound thinner and that can be misunderstood like it's "underpowered".
> Increase on the Trebles makes a headphone more brighter.
> At the end, that curve indicates 702 will be much more brighter and thinner with iDSD compared to something that can't drive 702.(like Audioquest)
> ...



this is mind opening! And here I always thought the reason why my Little Dot I+ makes the akg k702 warmer is because of the tubes, and yet the m9xx makes it sound a bit thin


----------



## GerMan

Seems to be a conflict of objectives with AKG 702. It needs power to shine, but if I use normal or turbo setting (not eco) the volume knob turns quite left where the volume knob suffers problems with stereo balance. To get 11-12 o'clock volume knob wherer stereo balance is good ifi service advised me to use "eco" and iem. In eco mode it sounds a bit underpowered, not dynamic. 
  
 Hm, love K702 for ist detail and resolution. Seems to me a bit weird to buy a new warm darker headphone just to be able to use ifi micro idsd. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Never read of an ifi micro idsd user with AKG 701/702 who reported to be totally satisfied with the sound...
  
 Using my 702 with headphone socket of my Accuphase amp gives me a totally controlled detailed and no thin at all sound. Nearly perfect. Seems I have to look further for a solution with pc using.
  
 Thanks for your contribution so far!


----------



## willowbrook

german said:


> Seems to be a conflict of objectives with AKG 702. It needs power to shine, but if I use normal or turbo setting (not eco) the volume knob turns quite left where the volume knob suffers problems with stereo balance. To get 11-12 o'clock volume knob wherer stereo balance is good ifi service advised me to use "eco" and iem. In eco mode it sounds a bit underpowered, not dynamic.
> 
> Hm, love K702 for ist detail and resolution. Seems to me a bit weird to buy a new warm darker headphone just to be able to use ifi micro idsd.
> 
> ...


 
 So are you looking for a warmer sound? K702 by nature is thin sounding. No matter what amp you pair with, you are going to notice more difference by switching headphones.


----------



## EVOLVIST

potatowhisperer said:


> Does anybody know how the build quality of this unit is? Can I bet on this serving me well for several years without issues or are there common known issues that plague the product?




I've had my iDSD micro for two years and a few months now. The feel of it is that it's built like a little tank, and it lives up to that. I've had no problems whatsoever. Then again, I only use the DAC section of the product, so it only sits on my desk. Take that as you will.


----------



## Haris Javed

german said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> New to this forum. Read that ifi micro idsd sonically is said to be a bit on the bright side. Decided to give it a try anyway. First impression after three days is that it is really important not to pair it with the "wrong" headphone.
> 
> ...


 
 Hello 
  
 maybe your amp is defective? have you tried any other headphone with it? I used to have an audio quest dragon fly that I was using with my HD650 - going to IFI made a big difference in sound presentation (it did not add any extra special secret stuff, it just made what was there more observable). The bass is tighter and hits harder - mids were not impacted much, the highs actually got duller, but more enjoyable.


----------



## gr8soundz

german said:


> Seems to be a conflict of objectives with AKG 702. It needs power to shine, but if I use normal or turbo setting (not eco) the volume knob turns quite left where the volume knob suffers problems with stereo balance. To get 11-12 o'clock volume knob wherer stereo balance is good ifi service advised me to use "eco" and iem. In eco mode it sounds a bit underpowered, not dynamic.
> 
> Hm, love K702 for ist detail and resolution. Seems to me a bit weird to buy a new warm darker headphone just to be able to use ifi micro idsd.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Where was the volume knob when you tried Turbo and IE Match?


----------



## warrior1975

Received my loaned micro idsd today. I tried two different coaxial cables, no sound. For fiio x7, the cable that works with mojo. Should work for this? Anyone has any input for me? Please. 

I think. I need an adapter, to a full rca for the micro side


----------



## gr8soundz

Do you have usb connected at the same time as the coaxial?


----------



## Sonic Defender

german said:


> Seems to be a conflict of objectives with AKG 702. It needs power to shine, but if I use normal or turbo setting (not eco) the volume knob turns quite left where the volume knob suffers problems with stereo balance. To get 11-12 o'clock volume knob wherer stereo balance is good ifi service advised me to use "eco" and iem. In eco mode it sounds a bit underpowered, not dynamic.
> 
> Hm, love K702 for ist detail and resolution. Seems to me a bit weird to buy a new warm darker headphone just to be able to use ifi micro idsd.
> 
> ...


 
 So you are simply making a point that there is a lack of synergy with these devices, cool, there are many excellent amps and headphone combinations that don't work. I agree, based on my experience with the Micro I would not match a detail monster headphone with it and expect a result that worked for my preferences. I no longer really like detail monster headphones, they are extremely limiting in what you can enjoy with them as frankly, a great deal of musical recordings in my experience are poor enough that too much detail retrieval is actually punishing as opposed to pleasurable. I used to be into signatures like the DT 880, or SR series Grado cans, now I prefer a little taken off the top in the interest of actually being able to listen to music without wincing at thin, strident details revealed in all of their stark and unforgiving glory.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

warrior1975 said:


> Received my loaned micro idsd today. I tried two different coaxial cables, no sound. For fiio x7, the cable that works with mojo. Should work for this? Anyone has any input for me? Please.
> 
> I think. I need an adapter, to a full rca for the micro side


 
  
  
 The iDSD has a combo SPDIF port, which has coxial input as RCA and the optical input is 3,5mm mini. For the Mojo the coaixal input is 3,5mm mini and a separate optical input with toslink port.
  
 This optical input with FiiO L12S cable:
  

 This is coaxial input with custom OE coaxial cable:


----------



## warrior1975

gr8soundz said:


> Do you have usb connected at the same time as the coaxial?




Nope. I think I'll need a special cable like the one h1f1add1cted posted. 

I am able to get it to work with my lgv10 and otg cable. This thing has lots of headroom, my God. Talk about power. Did some very brief abing with mojo and this, they sound very similar to me, volume matched (closest I can with my ears) they sound identical, which is a good thing. 

I can only get my Fostex Th900 to work, the 3.5mm input doesn't give sound. Not sure if there is another setting I'm missing, but I don't believe so.


----------



## technobear

warrior1975 said:


> I can only get my Fostex Th900 to work, the 3.5mm input doesn't give sound. Not sure if there is another setting I'm missing, but I don't believe so.




The answer is in your question: 3.5mm *input*

As in, not an output.


----------



## warrior1975

Sorry, typo. I plugged my IEMS into the 3.5mm jack. Oh...wait,is that an input only? I need a converter? Derp. Thank you. Brain farting.

That's what I get for rushing in excitement. Hopefully I am able to get the Fiio X7 to work now. Viper and micro... The ultimate basshead stack.


----------



## GerMan

sonic defender said:


> So you are simply making a point that there is a lack of synergy with these devices, cool, there are many excellent amps and headphone combinations that don't work. I agree, based on my experience with the Micro I would not match a detail monster headphone with it and expect a result that worked for my preferences. I no longer really like detail monster headphones, they are extremely limiting in what you can enjoy with them as frankly, a great deal of musical recordings in my experience are poor enough that too much detail retrieval is actually punishing as opposed to pleasurable. I used to be into signatures like the DT 880, or SR series Grado cans, now I prefer a little taken off the top in the interest of actually being able to listen to music without wincing at thin, strident details revealed in all of their stark and unforgiving glory.


 
  
 Well I suppose you are right, Sonic Defender.
  
 Frustration seems to have come over me as it is said that micro idsd can drive ANY headphone. And perhaps that in a German Forum I was told micro idsd was not bright sounding (which it is in my and other people's opinions), combination with K702 worked well, it was simply my wrong ears/hearing.
  
 And of course frustration has come over me as micro idsd is a nice peace of gear and I don't find any alternatives looking at quality/price for my K-702. What headphones are you using for the time being?


----------



## technobear

Both the K702 and it's forebear the K701 are well known for this behaviour.

They are best paired with amps and receivers which have tone controls so that the level of bass can be boosted.

Then again some people love treble and hate bass (no, really) and the K701/K702 is a good choice for them.


----------



## ckZA

Soooo I'm coming from HA-2 and my recently acquired Fiio X7. My behind was itching and I got me self the iDSD Micro. I use Inear Stage Driver 2's daily (Harmony 8 Pro / IE80 / W40 / HD650 / HD-25 at home).
  
 This "little" pest arrived today and a quick test with S7 usb streaming to the Micro completely blew me away with the SD2's. I didn't even know they could reproduce that much sound and so complete - I'm an engineer can hardly construct sentences so I can't find all the fancy words to convey this but the separation of instruments, the clarity and detail was just top notch. It was like I was listening to the songs for the first time. And the power to drive it - haven't even moved out of ECO mode. Noticed some hiss with the IEM's and adjusting the sensitivity did remove it but also muffled the sound a bit. Will toy around a bit.
  
 Used Fleetwood Mac's The Chain (my personal reference for gauging new stuff) and a bit of Cat Stevens and Paul McCartney. Just wow. I am actually conflicted now as the size is a wee bit big to carry around but I'll happily be the knob that walks around with that strapped to my S7 just to have that sound on the go.
  
 Can't wait to get home and give them the run over on my other iems / cans. For the hour I've spent with it I am super impressed. I just don't know how I am going to explain the purchase to the wife. The flowers and chocolate trick don't work anymore. Heck I am even doing dishes these days.


----------



## ClintonL

Can anyone comment how good the amp section in the micro would be vs if i got a standalone valhalla 2? Running hd800's.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Whitigir

ROFLMAO....doing dishes too man ? I admire you  I could not do it .


----------



## ckZA

I can feel the machoness draining with the water every time. But I get to be a nerd and spend money on awesome audio gear. I might skip the next purchase (planar's) and just buy a dishwasher to be honest


----------



## Whitigir

ckza said:


> I can feel the machoness draining with the water every time. But I get to be a nerd and spend money on awesome audio gear. I might skip the next purchase (planar's) and just buy a dishwasher to be honest




That will be a much better investment


----------



## TheNoose

ckza said:


> Soooo I'm coming from HA-2 and my recently acquired Fiio X7. My behind was itching and I got me self the iDSD Micro. I use Inear Stage Driver 2's daily (Harmony 8 Pro / IE80 / W40 / HD650 / HD-25 at home).
> 
> This "little" pest arrived today and a quick test with S7 usb streaming to the Micro completely blew me away with the SD2's. I didn't even know they could reproduce that much sound and so complete - I'm an engineer can hardly construct sentences so I can't find all the fancy words to convey this but the separation of instruments, the clarity and detail was just top notch. It was like I was listening to the songs for the first time. And the power to drive it - haven't even moved out of ECO mode. Noticed some hiss with the IEM's and adjusting the sensitivity did remove it but also muffled the sound a bit. Will toy around a bit.
> 
> ...


 

 Buy her (yourself) a dishwasher...I use one since my wife purchased an in drawer version and it was great, now I have a full sized one. Oh and I'm onto diamonds already...and still don't have a really good headphone and portable player yet.


----------



## Sonic Defender

german said:


> Well I suppose you are right, Sonic Defender.
> 
> Frustration seems to have come over me as it is said that micro idsd can drive ANY headphone. And perhaps that in a German Forum I was told micro idsd was not bright sounding (which it is in my and other people's opinions), combination with K702 worked well, it was simply my wrong ears/hearing.
> 
> And of course frustration has come over me as micro idsd is a nice peace of gear and I don't find any alternatives looking at quality/price for my K-702. What headphones are you using for the time being?


 
 Yes that would frustrate the hell out of me, and there is individual differences in treble sensitivity to make matters worse. So there will be people who find a brighter headphone fine with the Micro I'm sure, others won't. I currently use the TH 600 with the Micro, but I have used 3 modest EQ cuts at different frequencies with the parametric EQ built into JRiver to bring down the treble. I am not sure if I actually find the Micro itself bright, I have to admit to now being used to it and feeling it might have a slight warmth.
  
 Now when I first started listening with the Micro coming from the DAC/amp in my H7 headphone (Bluetooth) the Micro seemed slightly bright to me, but as I said, since then I don't feel that way really, but I have now become used to the signature so that complicates things. I'm not sure how long you used the Micro, but ultimately if you find the pairing bad then just sell the Micro or return it as rarely it seems somebody starts out disliking something only to end up liking it; although that does happen for sure.


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> ROFLMAO....doing dishes too man ? I admire you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Then you will worship me mate. I do all the cooking cleaning, all the child care stuff, grocery shop you name it. I did this even when I was working full-time, or when working part-time and in university part-time. I lived on my own from a fairly young age and my brother and I loved to entertain the ladies so we always had a clean place and needed to cook them great meals. All I can say is that my domestic prowess lead me to have, well, a lot of opportunities shall we say to get to know these ladies well. Good investment.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

ckza said:


> For the hour I've spent with it I am super impressed. I just don't know how I am going to explain the purchase to the wife. The flowers and chocolate trick don't work anymore. Heck I am even doing dishes these days.


 Reading this I feel like you're my instant best friend lol


----------



## Whitigir

sonic defender said:


> Then you will worship me mate. I do all the cooking cleaning, all the child care stuff, grocery shop you name it. I did this even when I was working full-time, or when working part-time and in university part-time. I lived on my own from a fairly young age and my brother and I loved to entertain the ladies so we always had a clean place and needed to cook them great meals. All I can say is that my domestic prowess lead me to have, well, a lot of opportunities shall we say to get to know these ladies well. Good investment.




 lol, I envy you ! Don't forget to listen to you micro DSD though. Gotta give it loves to have some loves back as well


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> lol, I envy you ! Don't forget to listen to you micro DSD though. Gotta give it loves to have some loves back as well


 
 I do use it, almost daily. It is attached to my laptop that I use for surfing the Internet so when I can I have the TH 600s going strong. Now that I'm used the sound of the TH 600s with the treble slightly reduced via EQ I really like them. Certainly for the $460 US, shipped and all fees in that I paid they are a steal. I have no reason to doubt the seller when he said they had maybe 75 hours of use as they are in pristine shape.


----------



## ClintonL

Anyone use both a valhalla 2 and a micro dsd and want to compare the amps?


----------



## oceandream1

Hello,

 1) I am interested in hearing comparison from people who own or have used both the ifi micro and the chord mojo. Both have similar price and perform roughly the same function. My focus is more on sound quality as compared to other features and/or functions. Mainly through laptop but may also use iphone occasionally. 
  
 2) Secondly I have a particular question about mojo. Can it really "properly" drive the more power hungry headphones. In particular I am interested to know if it can maximize the potential of headphones like hd600 and hifiman he400s. Currently I have x2 fidellio but I may buy one of these in the short term. Thank you for anyone who can offer their views who have experience of both and can answer my questions.


----------



## willowbrook

oceandream1 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 1) I am interested in hearing comparison from people who own or have used both the ifi micro and the chord mojo. Both have similar price and perform roughly the same function. My focus is more on sound quality as compared to other features and/or functions. Mainly through laptop but may also use iphone occasionally.
> 
> 2) Secondly I have a particular question about mojo. Can it really "properly" drive the more power hungry headphones. In particular I am interested to know if it can maximize the potential of headphones like hd600 and hifiman he400s. Currently I have x2 fidellio but I may buy one of these in the short term. Thank you for anyone who can offer their views who have experience of both and can answer my questions.


 

 Good review I've found. Something to power full sized cans, I would lean towards micro idsd. If you are looking for something more portable and IEM use, mojo is no brainer.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/798562/portable-amp-dac-shootout-ifi-micro-idsd-vs-resonessence-concero-hp-vs-chord-mojo-vs-ifi-idac2-vs-hrt-microstreamer
 In my experience, mojo has a slight emphasis on mid-bass which can be too much if you already own a can with enough bass with neural setup. Everything else is pretty neutral and detailed. The mids on the mojo is really something, it's not often that I notice a big difference between a properly amped and generic output.
  
 Mind you, although mojo's battery is said to last for 10 hours, even with IEMs it only lasts about 8 hours max.


----------



## tgx78

Oceandream1.. I bought mojo and idsd at the same time and sold the mojo. DAC section were comparable (and to be honest, I can't discern much difference from my la scala to exasound to mojo to idsd unless i feed them to my magnepan) but iDSD clearly pulled ahead in its amp section. I don't have the HD600 nor the HE400 to give you a good answer, but I thought that mojo could not drive the HD800 properly (sounded thin and lacked dynamic) where idsd micro had a plenty power to drive HD800 to a satisfying level. 

ClintonL.. When I recommended iDSD micro, you said it's hard to get them where you are and now you may change your mind? Seems like not many people here tried both iDSD and valhalla 2 at the same time. Maybe ask the same question at valhalla 2 thread?


----------



## oceandream1

thanks to both williow and tgx for the reply. it seems that both products are pretty much neck and neck based on the replies i got. i get the feeling it is down to whether you want the reassurance of the abillity of ifi to properly drive any headphones you are going to buy as compared to the "marginally" better dac section of the mojo. thats the sense i have got so far. i just wish mojo had amp power on par with ifi. then it would have been a no brainer. also based on review that willow linked, may not need to invest in a better usb cable for the mojo.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

At their price range I'm more curious about the m9xx. Actually I do have the m9xx right now (borrowed) and I do think that they're leagues above my previous DACs, the odac and modi2. But the m9xx is really hard to get in my country, due to all the customs bureaucracy and stuffs. So in the end thanks to the advice of one head-fi member that the idsd micro is on the same level as the m9xx, I ordered the iFi.


----------



## ckZA

I connected my Micro to my S7 with an OTG cable and the battery drain is quite significant. The last time I drove a DAC/AMP from an Android device was with Sony Z2/Z3 to an Oppo HA-2. I had a cable made to spec and the battery drain wasn't so bad using USB Audio Player Pro. At the time it was easy to identify because I bought an OTG charging cable by mistake and the battery nose dived. The custom cable immediately stopped that huge drain.
  
But now with the S7->USB Audio Pro->OTG->Micro->HD650's I can basically see a percentage of battery drop every 2 songs or so. I suppose at 4min per song I'd get away with 8 hours of music but I'm just wondering if anyone else has a Droid and Micro setup?
  
I'm running 5.1B which stops the sleep charging. 
  
Some interesting things I've noticed:
When I plug the OTG cable into the phone with the Micro off, it shows a blue LED on the Micro which indicates charging. If I acknowledge the USB driver in Android for USB A Pro (the Mirco is off but still prompts the USB driver in Android) then the blue light goes away. This all happens with the Micro off. My Z2/3 and HA-2 never talked to each other when the HA-2 was off - so this is quite strange for me.
  
The moment I start a song in USB A Pro with the Micro on the battery starts it dipping. 
  
Maybe I'm being overly paranoid on the battery aspect? Haven't used a Droid setup for some time. Maybe it might be optimization of USB A Pro in S7 - but to counter that I also checked Onkyo HF and the result was the same. 
  
 EDIT - I am a horribly bad at reading instructions. 
  
 1.) TIP from Manual
_"To use the micro iDSD in Battery Power mode, power on the micro iDSD BEFORE connection to the PC otherwise the iDSD will run in USB Power mode."_
  
 +
  
 2.) Based off 5.1B notes:
_2) This is strictly for Smartphone users ONLY, there is no other reason to use 5.1B on the micro iDSD.
• The micro iDSD micro will try to recharge while in Sleep Mode (e.g. when connected to a PC). If connected to a *Smartphone which is ‘seen’ as a computer, *it will recharge via the Smartphone.
• 5.1B disables the Sleep Mode within the micro iDSD; hence it will no longer try to recharge during Sleep Mode and flatten the Smartphone’s battery.
• Do NOT use 5.1B on any other products other than micro iDSD._


----------



## ClintonL

How would an idac2 + ican SE compare to a micro? 
  
 Cheers


----------



## technobear

clintonl said:


> How would an idac2 + ican SE compare to a micro?
> 
> Cheers




It is the better choice if you don't need it to be portable.

The micro iCAN is a better headphone amp than the micro iDSD.


----------



## GerMan

As there is an iPhono2 and an iDAC2,when will there be micro iDSD2?After all it's running since 2014 whichis a long period in the technical area..


----------



## Koolpep

german said:


> As there is an iPhono2 and an iDAC2,when will there be micro iDSD2?After all it's running since 2014 whichis a long period in the technical area..


 

 ah well, not everything needs updating for no reason. Only if there is a substantial benefit to it. I am sure ifi will spend the money to update the iDSD once they feel they can make it significantly better for the same price.
  
 Also, this is headphone amps - not a typical tech product. No need to have a new one within less than 2 years (which is the case for the iDSD).
  
 There might be a iDSD Pro though maybe?
  
 Take a look at the DAC chips used mostly - not much happening in their top of the line products for decades sometimes....
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Sonic Defender

koolpep said:


> Take a look at the DAC chips used mostly - not much happening in their top of the line products for decades sometimes....
> 
> Cheers!


 
 And even when "advances" do happen, it is certainly debatable whether or not the changes are even audible. I would bet most DAC chips (not implementations) are transparent to the user, assuming they are well designed.


----------



## GerMan

koolpep said:


> ah well, not everything needs updating for no reason. Only if there is a substantial benefit to it. ....
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 Well, there have been several points of criticism over the last two years, why should ifi not try to eliminate them? As there are f. ex. channel  imbalance of volume knob (no, you can fix this and hold the sound quality at the same level, others can), plop when turning the volume knob on (you can fix this and hold the sound quality up, others can), option to run the device with external power when used as single DAC in home hifi, option to load and hear at the same time, very stiff toggle switches on the front panel (you have to hold the device tight to switch), not raising the highs when switching to 3D, as the ifi is already sounding bright enough without 3D and so on.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Regards


----------



## GerMan

sonic defender said:


> And even when "advances" do happen, it is certainly debatable whether or not the changes are even audible.


 
  
 Seems I hear al litte fear of an idsd owner that there might come a new model


----------



## Koolpep

german said:


> Well, there have been several points of criticism over the last two years, why should ifi not try to eliminate them? As there are f. ex. channel  imbalance of volume knob (no, you can fix this and hold the sound quality at the same level, others can), plop when turning the volume knob on (you can fix this and hold the sound quality up, others can), option to run the device with external power when used as single DAC in home hifi, option to load and hear at the same time, very stiff toggle switches on the front panel (you have to hold the device tight to switch), not raising the highs when switching to 3D, as the ifi is already sounding bright enough without 3D and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 People criticize a lot - doesn't mean it's an improvement. And for all the things you mention there might be trade-offs. As you know the iDSD was developed with the feedback of the head-fi community - that's why it's such a crazy feature-packed device. 
  
 Example: channel imbalance - this was a tradeoff to have a full analog one but you have the gain modes and IEM match feature to reduce output so you are in the optimal range without imbalance.
 Option to run the device as DAC -> you could argue that's what the iDAC is for.
 Option to load (I assume you mean charge?) and hear (you mean listen to music?)  at the same time - you can't do that now?
 3D - I like it the way it is actually. It's welcome if you have some darker cans - wouldn't be an improvement for me but I would like the different levels from he Retro / iCan Pro.
  
 So you see, there are different viewpoints on what actually an improvement is. I don't say they can't be made. But once you start doing them, make them count - as this costs a lot to change parts, tooling etc. especially for products with these small amount of production runs (comparatively).
  
 Anyhow - in general I am all for progress and I don't care one bit if I have an "older" version. But I assume with ifi producing really good updates (like the iCan to iCan SE) - it won't be a small iterative step but a bigger one.
  
 I recently had the Pro iCan at home and boy - there is some awesome stuff coming from ifi.....
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ClieOS

koolpep said:


> People criticize a lot - doesn't mean it's an improvement....


 
  
 Agree. One thing you won't find on Head-fi is an universal consensus on a 'flawless' product. Besides, most of those complaints were mentioned and addressed during the R&D time (which iFi has explained quite a few in length). Many are compromise for other more important features. By 'fixing' these complaints, you inevitably will create other complaints. Then what are left is the question of, should iFi launches a micro iDSD 2 with only minor upgrade? I would think that, ideally for any manufacturer that you will want newer generation of products to be fairly distinguishable from the last in order to attract your old customer back. No m.iDSD owner will want to spend another $500+ just to address a minor pop-up sound, so to speak.


----------



## 227qed

technobear said:


> It is the better choice if you don't need it to be portable.
> 
> The micro iCAN is a better headphone amp than the micro iDSD.




iCAN is hands down one of the best purchases I've ever made. The bass boost scales with the digital input for earth shattering thunder if you want it, the 3D switch makes the soundstage huge. It's really a nice piece of gear, one that I'd pay double for. I just wish the idac had an optical input. 

Speaking of optical inputs, if anyone has any experience, I'd love to hear if I would get a huge increase in SQ going from a schiit modi 2 uber to an idsd for my dac. The harsh reality is that there isn't much difference between my $150 modi 2 uber and $25 fiio d03k. 

Maybe the ican is just that good, but I'm wondering if I'm leaving a lot on the table by not having a better dac. Headphones are jvc sz2000. Thanks!


----------



## ColonelBucket8

227qed said:


> iCAN is hands down one of the best purchases I've ever made. The bass boost scales with the digital input for earth shattering thunder if you want it, the 3D switch makes the soundstage huge. It's really a nice piece of gear, one that I'd pay double for. I just wish the idac had an optical input.
> 
> Speaking of optical inputs, if anyone has any experience, I'd love to hear if I would get a huge increase in SQ going from a schiit modi 2 uber to an idsd for my dac. The harsh reality is that there isn't much difference between my $150 modi 2 uber and $25 fiio d03k.
> 
> Maybe the ican is just that good, but I'm wondering if I'm leaving a lot on the table by not having a better dac. Headphones are jvc sz2000. Thanks!


 

 Maybe you should upgrade your headphone first in order to hear the significant upgrade. Dac only gives a slight audible improvement.


----------



## Aegruin

227qed said:


> iCAN is hands down one of the best purchases I've ever made. The bass boost scales with the digital input for earth shattering thunder if you want it, the 3D switch makes the soundstage huge. It's really a nice piece of gear, one that I'd pay double for. I just wish the idac had an optical input.
> 
> Speaking of optical inputs, if anyone has any experience, I'd love to hear if I would get a huge increase in SQ going from a schiit modi 2 uber to an idsd for my dac. The harsh reality is that there isn't much difference between my $150 modi 2 uber and $25 fiio d03k.
> 
> Maybe the ican is just that good, but I'm wondering if I'm leaving a lot on the table by not having a better dac. Headphones are jvc sz2000. Thanks!


 
 Luckily, Modi 2 Uber vs iDSD Micro was today's discussion among my friends. 150$ vs 600$. Everyone listened them and we made a conclusion.
 Modi 2 Uber's bass is more impactful but less audible. The bass has almost the same quality compared to iDSD.
 Mids of Modi 2 is... how can I say... Chav... compared to iDSD.
 Trebles of Modi 2 is the worst part of it. Scratches your ears. iDSD has a more smooth treble.
  
 Modi 2 Uber is more muddy, it's soundstage is very small compared to iDSD.
 Don't get me wrong, I've used Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 for 2 years, they are the best on that price range but iDSD can't be even compared. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The thing is, you really need good headphones to hear the diffrence. If your headphone cannot keep up with your source, you won't hear the diffrence. This inference is valid in both ways.


----------



## 227qed

colonelbucket8 said:


> Maybe you should upgrade your headphone first in order to hear the significant upgrade. Dac only gives a slight audible improvement.




Yeah, that's what I noticed with the fiio d03k to modi 2 uber. But the iCAN makes a massive difference in sound quality with the SZ2000. really interesting that it doesn't do much for my psb m4u2 which sound great on their own. I just use those at work though, where the noise cancelling is a must. 

I'm sure my next audio purchase will be headphones then. Thanks!


----------



## 227qed

aegruin said:


> Luckily, Modi 2 Uber vs iDSD Micro was today's discussion among my friends. 150$ vs 600$. Everyone listened them and we made a conclusion.
> Modi 2 Uber's bass is more impactful but less audible. The bass has almost the same quality compared to iDSD.
> Mids of Modi 2 is... how can I say... Chav... compared to iDSD.
> Trebles of Modi 2 is the worst part of it. Scratches your ears. iDSD has a more smooth treble.
> ...




Thanks, that's some solid info. The first thing I noticed with my ICAN was how massive the soundstage got. There's a huge difference in sound quality with the SZ2000 and my portable amps, fiio E6 and cayin c5. The iCan is leaps and bounds above them which tells me it has a lot of potential. With what you said regarding the soundstage of the dacs though, I am now very intrigued. iDSD is now officially added to my list of things I want but dont need! Death to frugality in the name of supreme audio experience!


----------



## ColonelBucket8

227qed said:


> Thanks, that's some solid info. The first thing I noticed with my ICAN was how massive the soundstage got. There's a huge difference in sound quality with the SZ2000 and my portable amps, fiio E6 and cayin c5. The iCan is leaps and bounds above them which tells me it has a lot of potential. With what you said regarding the soundstage of the dacs though, I am now very intrigued. iDSD is now officially added to my list of things I want but dont need! Death to frugality in the name of supreme audio experience!


 
  
 After I got idsd, the soundstage is really huge compare to my previous dap. That's because I turned on the 3d switch. At first I appreciate the 3d switch but it is becoming very tiring after a long listening session because of the boosted treble. At last, I prefer turn off the 3d switch. This also depends on your headphones. I demoed ican before, I love the xbass fully engaged. It really can shatter your skull with the bass.


----------



## theveterans

> After I got idsd, the soundstage is really huge compare to my previous dap. That's because I turned on the 3d switch. At first I appreciate the 3d switch but it is becoming very tiring after a long listening session because of the boosted treble. At last, I prefer turn off the 3d switch. This also depends on your headphones. I demoed ican before, I love the xbass fully engaged. It really can shatter your skull with the bass.


 
  
 You probably need iFi iTube for a better 3D holographic soundstage implementation.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

colonelbucket8 said:


> After I got idsd, the soundstage is really huge compare to my previous dap. That's because I turned on the 3d switch. At first I appreciate the 3d switch but it is becoming very tiring after a long listening session because of the boosted treble. At last, I prefer turn off the 3d switch. This also depends on your headphones. I demoed ican before, I love the xbass fully engaged. It really can shatter your skull with the bass.


 
 It's gonna be interesting to try the 3d switch with my speakers.


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> It's gonna be interesting to try the 3d switch with my speakers.


 
 Unless you like treble emphasis I suspect you won't like it. All it does it thin out the sound to my ears.


----------



## ClieOS

theveterans said:


> You probably need iFi iTube for a better 3D holographic soundstage implementation.


 
  
 Note that iTube's 3D implementation is really for loudspeaker only.


----------



## Sonic Defender

clieos said:


> Note that iTube's 3D implementation is really for loudspeaker only.


 
 How could speakers benefit from this? I always assumed this feature was intended for headphones.


----------



## gr8soundz

theveterans said:


> You probably need iFi iTube for a better 3D holographic soundstage implementation.


 


sonic defender said:


> How could speakers benefit from this? I always assumed this feature was intended for headphones.


 
  
 I can confirm the iTube's 3D works well with many headphones, at least on the lower setting. Higher setting spreads out the treble too much for some headphones.
  
 IFi recommends using it with speakers but, even on the highest setting, the iTube's 3D is nowhere near as aggressive as the iDSD (via rca out).
  
 Biggest surprise I noticed after adding the iTube between my iDSD and MF amp is the bass emphasis. Sound is now fuller, smoother (of course), and has much greater impact on the low end. So much so that I now have to leave the iDSD's xbass off.


----------



## ClieOS

sonic defender said:


> How could speakers benefit from this? I always assumed this feature was intended for headphones.


 

 Because 3DHS for headphone (on micro iDSD, iCAN and iCAN SE) is a different implementation compared to the 3DHS on iTube.
  
 This is the section that introduces 3D sound on iFi iTube's page (see RED)
  


> The 3D HolographicSound® system for headphones in the renowned iCan has gained widespread acclaim. The iTube maintains the tradition with 3D HolographicSound® system for speakers, based upon a fundamental tenet of human hearing that has been ‘lost’ down through the years but revived by iFi for 21st century speaker reproduction.
> 
> At the dawn of stereo recording in the 1930s, a fundamental problem was documented by the ‘father’ of stereo sound recording – Alan Dower Blumlein. In his seminal 1933 binaural sound patent, due to the shape and size of the human head, stereo separation is greater at high frequencies than it is at low frequencies. So the virtual sound sources for low frequencies and high frequencies of the same exact instrument are not coincident.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can you like the speaker version of the 3DHS on headphone? Maybe. But in my experience, it tends to screws up the stereo image on headphone more than it helps because the relative position of instruments and vocal are pushed to all the different places that ain't related to the original position. On the other hand, I absolutely love it on loudspeaker.


----------



## 227qed

But ar





colonelbucket8 said:


> After I got idsd, the soundstage is really huge compare to my previous dap. That's because I turned on the 3d switch. At first I appreciate the 3d switch but it is becoming very tiring after a long listening session because of the boosted treble. At last, I prefer turn off the 3d switch. This also depends on your headphones. I demoed ican before, I love the xbass fully engaged. It really can shatter your skull with the bass.




Arent the 3D and xbass on the idsd bypassed when just using it as a dac? I.e., I'll only get 3d and xbass from the ican, the effects won't be additive right?


----------



## technobear

227qed said:


> But ar
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The iDSD has a direct mode and a pre-amp mode. XBASS and 3D Holographic for Speakers are active in pre-amp mode.


----------



## 227qed

technobear said:


> The iDSD has a direct mode and a pre-amp mode. XBASS and 3D Holographic for Speakers are active in pre-amp mode.




Sorry if this is a bad question, I'm still fairly new here. Does pre-amp mode do dac?


----------



## theveterans

227qed said:


> Sorry if this is a bad question, I'm still fairly new here. Does pre-amp mode do dac?




Preamp mode means the analog output is Line level (2 volts). Therefore, it goes through the DAC


----------



## 227qed

theveterans said:


> Preamp mode means the analog output is Line level (2 volts). Therefore, it goes through the DAC




Awesome, thanks. An idsd is certainly in my future then. Looking forward to joining the club here one day. 

If anyone ever stumbles upon this post and is looking to sell theirs, please pm me. Thanks!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Anyone with the ipurifier2 here? Should I go for the iusb3 nano or is the ip2 enough? The ip2 did wonders to my idac2, but I have not received my idsd micro yet and there's next to zero chance to test the iusb3


----------



## technobear

227qed said:


> theveterans said:
> 
> 
> > Preamp mode means the analog output is Line level (2 volts). Therefore, it goes through the DAC
> ...




Direct mode outputs 2V.

Pre-amp mode varies with the position of the volume control.

RCA outputs are always from the DAC.

The analogue input on the front panel only uses the headphone amp and only outputs through the headphone socket.

The direct/preamp switch is on the bottom at the rear.


----------



## Dadracer

williamleonhart said:


> Anyone with the ipurifier2 here? Should I go for the iusb3 nano or is the ip2 enough? The ip2 did wonders to my idac2, but I have not received my idsd micro yet and there's next to zero chance to test the iusb3




I have the iP2 but use it with an iUSB which I am told brings it close to the new iUSB nano in functionality. The combination certainly brings a better sound than the iUSB alone so I would imagine you'd be better with the nano if you don't have any iUSB already. Alternatively you could get an iUSB as you already have the iP2 and you'd have a more cost effective upgrade.
Did any of that make sense?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

dadracer said:


> I have the iP2 but use it with an iUSB which I am told brings it close to the new iUSB nano in functionality. The combination certainly brings a better sound than the iUSB alone so I would imagine you'd be better with the nano if you don't have any iUSB already. Alternatively you could get an iUSB as you already have the iP2 and you'd have a more cost effective upgrade.
> Did any of that make sense?


 
 Thanks for your input. I'm actually planning to use 2 separate DACs (1 for my headphones and 1 for the speaker system) so any route I'd go with, the iPurifier2+iDAC2 is going to stay. I'm trying to decide what should be the most reasonable upgrade for the iDSD Micro. So far it could be iP2 (by itself), iUSB+iP2 or iUSB3.0. I do intend to buy used stuffs if possible so that could complicate things quite a lot.


----------



## Dadracer

Well start with the iP2 as you have it already. The iUSB might be easier to pick up used as its older and folks may have upgraded to the iUSB3.


----------



## Aegruin

Does anyone using iDSD Micro with any kind of stereo speakers? Is it fine compared to DACs that was made specifically for speakers?
 I'm thinking about buying a speaker and using it with a speaker amp and my iDSD Micro, so I wondered.


----------



## Brooko

I just use it with my powered JBL LSR 305s.  The variable control on the iDSD is brilliant - as is the 3D.


----------



## iFi audio

For immediate distribution:
*Unified Firmware 5.2* *Limoncello*  
  

  
  
 Southport, UK – 13th May 2016
  
*Latest U**nified* *Firmware* *v5.2* *‘Limoncello’*
 The very latest in-house firmware1 version 5.2 for *ALL* iFi products2 is available. It is very similar to Gelato v5.1 but there some nice, minor improvements:

Minor code optimisation.
Fixed issues surrounding DoP standard; including ‘clicks’ when changing tracks and sonic differences to native DSD.
  
  
  
 As before, for customers with particular requirements, there are two firmware sub-versions:
 2) *For nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 v5.2A* - *Enables DOP256 operation*

This enables DSD256(DoP) operation, which requires 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level.  
Nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 CANNOT decode 768kHz at the DAC level, but they can all be programmed to receive 768kHz PCM at the USB interface level hence enable DSD256(DoP). 
With 5.2A, the user MUST make sure to manually alter the PCM audio settings correctly (especially Mac), otherwise there will be no audio output at all.
In other words, when playing PCM files, the sample rate must NOT set to be higher than 384kHz.  Only set the sampling rate to 768kHz when one wants to play DSD256(DoP).
There is no need to use this firmware if one uses ‘native mode’ (not DoP) to play DSD or if DSD files are not played at all.
Do NOT use 5.2A on any other products other than nano iDSD and micro iDAC2.
 
 3) *For iDSD micro Firmware v5.2B - Disable Sleep Mode (Smartphone users ONLY)*

This is strictly for Smartphone users ONLY, there is no other reason to use 5.2B on the micro iDSD.
The micro iDSD micro will try to recharge while in Sleep Mode (e.g. when connected to a PC).  If connected to a Smartphone which is ‘seen’ as a computer, it will recharge via the Smartphone.
5.2B disables the Sleep Mode within the micro iDSD; hence it will no longer try to recharge during Sleep Mode and flatten the Smartphone’s battery.
Do NOT use 5.2B on any other products other than micro iDSD.
  
  
 For detailed instructions and the download files, please follow this link:
http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
  
*1**Background. The DSD DoP Evolution*
 DoP DSD is known for inherently creating noise when switching between PCM and DSD-DoP tracks and back. This problem has been addressed at the source by _some_ but not all playback software - hence, much available software when playing DSD, struggles.
  
 So we at iFi have taken it upon ourselves to think ‘outside of the (PC) box’ to resolve this _upstream_ issue at the _downstream_ firmware level for all our DSD capable devices. In a process that took over a year, we have resolved the many areas where the differences between DSD-DoP and PCM make switching an annoyance.
  
 Additionally, DoP is often cited as offering a lower sound quality. By adjusting core code and the clocking system in the firmware, this point is now moot – as we eliminated the hit on processor utilisation by DoP vs. native DSD playback.
  
 So choose native DSD or DoP-DSD with the confidence that either will deliver the same great DSD sound quality and user experience. Just like DSD and PCM, we like one as much as the other.

    [1] WARNING: Do NOT flash non-iFi products on the XMOS platform with iFi firmware!

[2] iFi Native DSD-capable DACs so original iDAC excluded so do NOT update using v5.2.


----------



## Amoy Utot

Thank you for the firmware update, the eardrum piercing "clicks" when changing tracks from DSD to FLAC are almost gone,.. (still a little bit audible).


----------



## iFi audio

amoy utot said:


> Thank you for the firmware update, the eardrum piercing "clicks" when changing tracks from DSD to FLAC are almost gone,.. (still a little bit audible).


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We are ultimately trying effective a solution downstream (@ DAC) for what is an upstream issue (@ transport/source). We will nonethless keep trying but even vinyl has clicks and pops!


----------



## V Zimmermann

Hello to everyone! Just got yesterday the Micro iDSD! Have some problems.. Hope somebody help me... 
 At the moment I do not have an OTG cable for using my android smartphone (I will buy it tomorrow), so I tried to use the micro with my Win 10.
 I have downloaded and installed all the drivers but it is not working properly. The sound is very bad and not loud at all. Maybe its still running without drivers?! 
 How to install them correctly? 
 So what I have done:
 1: Downloaded and installed "iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio Driver 2.26.exe" and  selected “iFi (by AMR) HD + USB Audio”.
 2: Downloaded and installed Firmware 5.2 ‘Gelato’. I created the file manually into C/user/docs etc. 
 3. Went back to C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe and followed the instructions
4.“Firmware upgrade finished successfully.” !! 
 Can't understand where is the problem and what's wrong. 
 Connected to PC with the blue cable. On my laptop I have usb2 and usb3. The iFi (by AMR) HD + USB Audio is shown only through USB2.0 comnection.
 The light is blue when off and connected. On - is yellow, after is green when playing. 
 I am using foobar and AIMP, the files are in mp3 and FLAC
 Sennheiser Momentum In-Ear connected with the adapter 6.3. with the 3.4 no sound at all. 
 You already understand, I am not a professional on installing sofware so I need your help... 
 Today after a new version of Firmware I renamed the file and replaced the Gelato 1.0 with  version 5.2 ‘Limoncello’ (Gelato 2.0 ?)
 Deffinitely I have done something wrong, so if sombody can help me please.. thank you!


----------



## howdy

v zimmermann said:


> Hello to everyone! Just got yesterday the Micro iDSD! Have some problems.. Hope somebody help me...
> At the moment I do not have an OTG cable for using my android smartphone (I will buy it tomorrow), so I tried to use the micro with my Win 10.
> I have downloaded and installed all the drivers but it is not working properly. The sound is very bad and not loud at all. Maybe its still running without drivers?!
> How to install them correctly?
> ...



I know that there are times when you have to install it 2 times for it to work. Have you tried it again?


----------



## V Zimmermann

Yes, with replacing and deleting the Gelado 1.0 with Limoncello. Got the message "Firmware upgrade finished successfully."
 Maybe I need to do it one more time..? Its possible somebody help me with TEAMVIEWER program? Otherwise I will try to find a specialist in my small town who can fix it. Really want to keep and enjoy this device! Sorry for my english.. maybe the languege barrier do not allows me to understand the instructions correctly.. 
 The main reason I bought it - is to use it with my android device (samsung galaxy 6 edge). So, I will buy tomorrow OTG cable and hope it works at least with my phone...


----------



## 227qed

Originally posted by V Zimmerman:
  
 "2: Downloaded and installed Firmware 5.2 ‘Gelato’. I created the file manually into C/user/docs etc. 
 3. Went back to C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe and followed the instructions"
  
  
  
Taking a good guess here, but it is a guess so take it with a grain of salt.  The firmware and driver files probably need to be in the same folder.  I'd try moving the files from (2) into the same folder as (3), and if that doesn't work, try re-installing them in the default location, which I imagine should be the same.
  
Let me know if this works, hope it helps!


----------



## ClieOS

Firmware and driver doesn't need to be in the same folder. In fact, you can delete the firmware file once update is completed.
  
 Plug in the iDSD, turn it on, then run iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe again - Don't select or install firmware, just check if the program tell you which firmware you have on the iDSD. It should be 5.2.
  
Now go to Windows setting and uninstall iDSD USB driver, disconnect iDSD and restart your PC. Once PC restarted, install the USB driver, then plug in iDSD and check if the problem still exists. Also, check WIndows sound property and see iDSD is properly selected.


----------



## Amoy Utot

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are ultimately trying effective a solution downstream (@ DAC) for what is an upstream issue (@ transport/source). We will nonethless keep trying but even vinyl has clicks and pops!


 

 Thank you for your effort and continuous support, I think all the transport/source I have tested and used have problems with that "ear piercing clicks" (windows pc, toshiba laptop, 17" early 2008 macbook pro, 13" 2011 macbook pro, sony xperia z5 premium, samsung note 3, samsung J7, Samsung Tab A, Acer Liquid X2) Still waiting for the release of onkyo DP-X1 here in our country, I'll be using it as my dedicated DAP. This 5.2 firmware update is a HUGE improvement especially in eliminating those "ear piercing clicks" when changing tracks. 

 Ohhh those vinyl clicks and pops! Cassette tape hiss,... Good old happy memories, always put a smile on my ridiculous face


----------



## V Zimmermann

clieos said:


> Firmware and driver doesn't need to be in the same folder. In fact, you can delete the firmware file once update is completed.
> 
> Plug in the iDSD, turn it on, then run iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe again - Don't select or install firmware, just check if the program tell you which firmware you have on the iDSD. It should be 5.2.
> 
> Now go to Windows setting and uninstall iDSD USB driver, disconnect iDSD and restart your PC. Once PC restarted, install the USB driver, then plug in iDSD and check if the problem still exists. Also, check WIndows sound property and see iDSD is properly selected.


 
 Thank you! Something changes! But... not clarity in sound at all.. BUT finally its VERY LOAD on a minimum level on eco mode, in turbo is very very load!!! Before it was very quiet sound without voice. Now at least i can hear the voice. Very powerful seems to be! 
 So, I have done how did you said: 
 1) I run iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe - just to check. Yes, it was 5.2
 2) Uninstalled iDSD USB driver, and restarting PC
3) Installed again the USB driver.. but fails to install.
4) With the second attempt installed successful! 
  
 From the settings is selected "2 - iFi (by AMR) HD + USB Audio" - so seems to be correct (not IDT)
 On Foobar and AIMP is selected ASIO  by AMR HD USB Audio
  
 So. the sound is without any bass, appeared voice and load! But the sound is... how to say... with a lot of distortion.. not clean.. 
 Maybe something in the settings.... 
 Had tried the turbo on and the IEMatch off - very very load, but the same - dirty sound.. 
 Maybe to install everything one more time again?


----------



## Turrican2

v zimmermann said:


> Thank you! Something changes! But... not clarity in sound at all.. BUT finally its VERY LOAD on a minimum level on eco mode, in turbo is very very load!!! Before it was very quiet sound without voice. Now at least i can hear the voice. Very powerful seems to be!
> So, I have done how did you said:
> 1) I run [COLOR=333333]iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe [/COLOR]- just to check. Yes, it was 5.2
> 2) Uninstalled [COLOR=333333]iDSD USB driver, and restarting PC[/COLOR]
> ...




Are you using a 3.5mm to 6.35mm adapted plug for your headphones? Can you try a different one?


----------



## ClieOS

v zimmermann said:


> Thank you! Something changes! But... not clarity in sound at all.. BUT finally its VERY LOAD on a minimum level on eco mode, in turbo is very very load!!! Before it was very quiet sound without voice. Now at least i can hear the voice. Very powerful seems to be!
> So, I have done how did you said:
> 1) I run iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe - just to check. Yes, it was 5.2
> 2) Uninstalled iDSD USB driver, and restarting PC
> ...


 
  
 Is it the same when you are using Windows' Direct Sound?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Try it with DS or wasapi push. I've found that asio can be buggy at times.


----------



## V Zimmermann

Fix it! Found the problem! 
 I went today to buy a OTG cable, as I said before, to check how is working with my galaxy s6. 
 So, while checking the OTG cable in store, I accidentaly touched the 3.5 jack which is to 6.35 plug connected... 
 The problem is: the 3.5 jack of my Sennheiser  was inserted to the end into 6.3 - that is how it should  be! BUT when I pulled the 3.5 from 6.3 a little - the sound was PERFECT! 
 Pulled out a little bit, I mean - about 2mm. !!! But it is coming back easily... So, at home, I tested my original Galaxy headphones - the same - I need to pull them out a little..
 Seems to be adapter plug 6.3 is the problem.. asap I will buy a new one, to see how is going.
  
 PC
 At home I have done the same - and everything works! Just need to pull the headphone jack about 2mm from the gold 6.3... 
 In AIMP while playing - is flashing yellow light on micro ( i have maximised the HZ in the settings)
 In Foobar, the same song - in green... seems to be the settings.. (buy default, no option to change) but this is the next step... 
  
 NEXT: looking to buy Denon AH-D7100..  my sennheser in ear momentum 2.0 - good, but not enough .. (any suggestions?)
 But I will try to find out the necessary components for Foobar.. and the right settings.
 So, I am sorry to be boring and thank you everybody! 
 I will buy a new jack6.3


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Guys what sample size and mode are you using for your idsd? I've found that Standard mode and smaller size make for quite an improvement in smoothness


----------



## gr8soundz

williamleonhart said:


> Guys what sample size and mode are you using for your idsd? I've found that Standard mode and smaller size make for quite an improvement in smoothness


 
  
 I use the max 8192 sample size and minimum latency. To my ears, I get more detail and speed but my PC is dedicated for audio. If you do other things on your computer while listening, Extra Safe mode has less pops and interference.


----------



## Sonic Defender

> NEXT: looking to buy Denon AH-D7100..  my sennheser in ear momentum 2.0 - good, but not enough .. (any suggestions?)
> But I will try to find out the necessary components for Foobar.. and the right settings.
> So, I am sorry to be boring and thank you everybody!
> I will buy a new jack6.3


 
 Why the D7100?


----------



## V Zimmermann

sonic defender said:


> Why the D7100?


 
 Initially I was looking for something cheaper. For ath-m70x... I want only overears and only closed back. 
 I heard a lot of positives about D7100.. Somebody recommended them to me.I am listening to metal, hope they are perfect for this.
 Of course I need to test them first, I am not gonna buy them online without listening. Hope the micro iDSD drives them perfect.. 
 And after.. a good player (not really expensive, around £500)..  But first - headphones!
 p.s, really happy with MIcro! But still need to learn all the settings. Cant understand what 'polarity' is doing


----------



## Aegruin

I was wondering, can I use Asio on Foobar, with iDSD while doing other stuff in PC.
  
 When I use iDSD on Foobar with Asio, I can't hear anything else from my computer. I generally listen music while playing games on my PC. With iDSD's Asio drivers I can't do that. Is there a way to do that or should I keep using Windows sound?


----------



## willowbrook

aegruin said:


> I was wondering, can I use Asio on Foobar, with iDSD while doing other stuff in PC.
> 
> When I use iDSD on Foobar with Asio, I can't hear anything else from my computer. I generally listen music while playing games on my PC. With iDSD's Asio drivers I can't do that. Is there a way to do that or should I keep using Windows sound?


 
 The whole point of asio is exclusive mode which means you won't be able to use any other application with the micro. If you need to hear game sounds, you would have to use directsound which is not exclusive mode.
  
 If you have a speaker connected or something else connected, the application might play into that. For example, chrome plays the laptop speakers if the default sound device is in exclusive mode.


----------



## Aegruin

willowbrook said:


> The whole point of asio is exclusive mode which means you won't be able to use any other application with the micro. If you need to hear game sounds, you would have to use directsound which is not exclusive mode.
> 
> If you have a speaker connected or something else connected, the application might play into that. For example, chrome plays the laptop speakers if the default sound device is in exclusive mode.


 
 You mean, I can't play native DSD while playing games. I understand. I hoped there was a solution for this.


----------



## GerMan

Na, this must be a fun posting. Why is it important to you to hear native DSD when in the same time your concentration is on the game and not on music??


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

On the Aune T1 there was an discussion similar to this... I hope it's not all over again. Anyway the purpose of asio is to make sure no other applications can interfere with music playback. So if you want to play game at the same time, use direct sound as output


----------



## Aegruin

german said:


> Na, this must be a fun posting. Why is it important to you to hear native DSD when in the same time your concentration is on the game and not on music??


 
 I was using iDSD without ASIO while playing games all this time but I wanted to ask if there is a way to make it happen. I mean I'm just asking. It's not that important.


----------



## Maxpain

Hello folks,
  
 How would you compare the idsd's amp agains the amp of the shiit vali 2? My headphones are the sennheiser hd 598 and I would like to add some tube sound in the chain but I am afraid that the amp on the micro is much better than the amp in vali 2, I mean there is a huge difference in price...
  
 Thanks for helping cheers


----------



## cav1sa

aegruin said:


> I was using iDSD without ASIO while playing games all this time but I wanted to ask if there is a way to make it happen. I mean I'm just asking. It's not that important.


 
 I *think *your best option is to get a regular audio card for your game sounds and use that in parallel with the iDSD. You would get 2 stereo outputs coming from your PC which you would need to mix before sending to your speakers.  I'll probably end up doing something like this when civ 6 comes out


----------



## gr8soundz

maxpain said:


> How would you compare the idsd's amp agains the amp of the shiit vali 2? My headphones are the sennheiser hd 598 and I would like to add some tube sound in the chain but I am afraid that the amp on the micro is much better than the amp in vali 2, I mean there is a huge difference in price...


 
  
 Haven't heard the Vali 2 but was very tempted to get one for myself. Every review I read was positive and, apparently, it even pairs well with the finicky HD800.
  
 Vali 2 punches way above it's price point. I got the iTube instead (which is almost twice the Vali's price) and use a balanced amp after it but I can still use my Micro's headphone out at the same time. You could do the same since the Vali 2 would connect to the iDSD's rca out. 
  
 As good as the iDSD's amp is, many others are (at least) slightly better. I suspect the Vali 2's amp would do very well compared to it. Schiit also has a 15-day return window.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

iDSD micro driving the 600 ohm T1 with authority


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gr8soundz said:


> Haven't heard the Vali 2 but was very tempted to get one for myself. Every review I read was positive and, apparently, it even pairs well with the finicky HD800.
> 
> Vali 2 punches way above it's price point. I got the iTube instead (which is almost twice the Vali's price) and use a balanced amp after it but I can still use my Micro's headphone out at the same time. You could do the same since the Vali 2 would connect to the iDSD's rca out.
> 
> As good as the iDSD's amp is, many others are (at least) slightly better. I suspect the Vali 2's amp would do very well compared to it. Schiit also has a 15-day return window.


 
 Got the Vali 2 and didn't like it. My unpopular opinion is that a lot of stuffs are overrated. It's rather hard to find a helpful critical review these days.


----------



## willowbrook

williamleonhart said:


> Got the Vali 2 and didn't like it. My unpopular opinion is that a lot of stuffs are overrated. It's rather hard to find a helpful critical review these days.


 
 The only thing you can trust is your ears


----------



## gordec

Surprising the IDSD -> LCD3 is liked the supped up desktop version of my portable rig Cowon P1 -> Westone ES60. The BurrBrown dacs in both DACs have similar sound signature which is thick and rich. Very enjoyable.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

How much do you like the soundstage?


----------



## thrand1

I understand that there may be some "preference" posting in this thread, but thought I would see if anyone else was in a similar situation...
  
 I have Shure SE425 IEMs, and would like a DAC and headphone amp that is "transportable" from my home to the office and back. Playback will be from an iPhone/iPad using Onkyo HF Player. I have a budget of up to $500 out of pocket (less is better!) for both a DAC/amp AND a network streaming appliance (Planning on Raspberry Pi 3 plus Hifiberry Digi+ for SPDIF to receiver). I have a gift card to Amazon for $200 that will aid in this as well.
  
 I am considering the following:
 1) Buy demo Micro iDSD ($399) or new ($499) from 3rd party; buy RPi components from Amazon.
 3) Buy Oppo HA-2 amp for $299 and RPi components from Amazon.
 4) Buy Chord Mojo and RPi components from Amazon
  
 Pros of Micro iDSD: Most power (?), great connection versatility (coax in/out, can be used as an SPDIF converter), potential for better IEM matching with the adjustable switches
 Cons of Micro iDSD: Do I really "need" the power of the iDSD if I mainly get it for using the iEMatch settings? Using the RPi with the extra board for SPDIF creates redundancy with connectors on Micro iDSD.
  
 Pros of Oppo HA-2: Cheaper, more portable, Doesn't need CCK for connecting to iDevice
 Cons: Not as much connection versatility, risk of "hiss" with IEMs, not as powerful
  
 Pros of Mojo: Just about as powerful as Micro iDSD, similar input connectivity options as Micro iDSD, more powerful than Oppo
 Cons of Mojo: PRICE (most expensive), scattered reports of hiss with IEMs and "noises" during charging (some users got replacements, but I understand this could be small sample size)
  
 So...understanding most people are here in this thread, I have seen some people with HA-2 and/or Mojo, and would love to hear inputs on this.
  
 Thanks everyone!


----------



## Aegruin

Did anyone measured how many hours we can use iDSD on Normal Power mode while using in USB Power? I couldn't find any information on that.
  
 It drains very slowly but it would be great information to learn how much time I get before it shut itself down.


----------



## Koolpep

aegruin said:


> Did anyone measured how many hours we can use iDSD on Normal Power mode while using in USB Power? I couldn't find any information on that.
> 
> It drains very slowly but it would be great information to learn how much time I get before it shut itself down.




In normal mode. Probably forever. Depending what your USB port can provide...


----------



## Aegruin

koolpep said:


> In normal mode. Probably forever. Depending what your USB port can provide...


 
 When I'm using it on ECO and shut the iDSD off, Blue charging light never comes but when I'm using it on Normal, the Blue led appears.
  
 My USB isn't that bad. I'm using Asus Gene VII as mainboard. It's USB power should be better than the cheaper mainboards and laptops. Hmm... I really don't know...


----------



## howdy

aegruin said:


> Did anyone measured how many hours we can use iDSD on Normal Power mode while using in USB Power? I couldn't find any information on that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

There is a little brochure in the box and it states as follows;
 ECO ~12 hours
Normal ~19 hours
Turbo ~6 hours


----------



## Aegruin

howdy said:


> aegruin said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone measured how many hours we can use iDSD on Normal Power mode while using in USB Power? I couldn't find any information on that.
> ...


 
 I was actually talking about USB Power. These are the Battery Power's measurements. In that brochure, before that measurements, it states "in Battery mode with typical headphones".


----------



## CFGamescape

aegruin said:


> I was actually talking about USB Power. These are the Battery Power's measurements. In that brochure, before that measurements, it states "in Battery mode with typical headphones".


 

 If it's in USB mode, it's the equivalent of being plugged into the wall.


----------



## technobear

howdy said:


> aegruin said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone measured how many hours we can use iDSD on Normal Power mode while using in USB Power? I couldn't find any information on that.
> ...




That's a misprint. It's 9 hours in Normal mode, not 19.


----------



## technobear

If you have the iDSD plugged into an always-ON USB port, then assuming you sleep for part of the day you need never turn it off.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Will leaving the iDSD always plugged in result in shortened battery? If I want to use it as DAC only is there anyway to bypass the charging?


----------



## technobear

williamleonhart said:


> Will leaving the iDSD always plugged in result in shortened battery? If I want to use it as DAC only is there anyway to bypass the charging?




If you are using it as a DAC only then you should be using 'Eco' mode.

Provided you then run the iDSD in USB power mode:

i) with the PC on (USB port on) the battery will not be used, the iDSD will sleep when you are not listening and the battery will charge. Overcharging is not possible.

ii) with the PC off (USB port off) the battery will only be used a tiny bit because the iDSD will enter sleep mode.


----------



## cav1sa

williamleonhart said:


> Will leaving the iDSD always plugged in result in shortened battery? If I want to use it as DAC only is there anyway to bypass the charging?


 
 I never turn mine off. It automatically goes into a sleep mode when not used, which allows it to recharge from the USB port. You can disable the automatic charging with a specific firmware flavor if you want.


----------



## Dadracer

Just added another piece to my micro iDSD system. Its an Auralic Aries Mini which uses the Mercury cable into its USB socket and then some witchcraft is performed with the Lightning DS app from my iPhone and my WiFi router and hey presto.......I cannot categorically say it sounds any better, but it is a quieter background with no laptop fan. Also the tracks start up or change with CD like precision and with much fewer drop outs. So overall its a more enjoyable listening experience and means the laptop can go back to more mundane tasks! So I recommend this strongly if you are a Tidal or Qobuz user.


----------



## PotatoWhisperer

Quote:


williamleonhart said:


> Will leaving the iDSD always plugged in result in shortened battery? If I want to use it as DAC only is there anyway to bypass the charging?


 
 I bought a used Micro from someone that used it as a desktop only solution for quite a while. When I received it, I tested its battery and it easily hit the 6 hour mark in turbo using my Alpha Primes. It went red an hour or so later but I stopped timing it after 6 really, so I would assume it doesn't shorten it's battery if it's used as a desktop solution only.


----------



## natra084

Hi guys I'm having problems play sound from chrome I've tried to disable Flash but it still won't work


----------



## willowbrook

natra084 said:


> Hi guys I'm having problems play sound from chrome I've tried to disable Flash but it still won't work



Maybe it is in exclusive mode already?


----------



## Koolpep

natra084 said:


> Hi guys I'm having problems play sound from chrome I've tried to disable Flash but it still won't work




Mac or PC?

If it's Mac, then switch the audio midi setup frequency to 16/44 or 16/48 and restart chrome. It seems to be the only browser under Mac OS that has some funny stuff going on when it comes to audio output. If the frequencies don't match - no sound.

Cheers.


----------



## natra084

koolpep said:


> Mac or PC?
> 
> If it's Mac, then switch the audio midi setup frequency to 16/44 or 16/48 and restart chrome. It seems to be the only browser under Mac OS that has some funny stuff going on when it comes to audio output. If the frequencies don't match - no sound.
> 
> Cheers.


 yes I have a Mac but where do I find midi setup


----------



## Koolpep

natra084 said:


> yes I have a Mac but where do I find midi setup


 
  

 Spotlight: audio midi
  
 Or:
  
 Applications -> Utilities -> Audio MIDI Setup
  
 Cheers!


----------



## natra084

koolpep said:


> Spotlight: audio midi
> 
> Or:
> 
> ...


 thank you very much


----------



## WasabiIceCream

I've been having the strangest damn issue with this thing, guys.
 Often, when light switches are flipped, or an appliance is plugged into a socket in my place, the audio will completely drop.
 When that happens, I either have to stop and restart music playback, close whatever application I was using, or completely restart my PC.
 It's extremely annoying, and I'm not sure what's causing it. I have many things plugged into my PC through USB, and this is the only piece of hardware affected by this.
  
 My audio chain is like this: PC -> iFi iUSBPower -> iFi Gemini Cable -> iFi iPurifier -> iFi iDSD micro -> Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro (250 ohm)
 I've also tried just PC -> iFi iDSD micro -> Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro (250 ohm)
 The audio drops either way.
  
 I'd love some insight on this phenomena, because I love this equipment, but I'm thinking of replacing if this keeps happening.


----------



## tf1216

What's your PC plugged in to?

What's happens when the headphones are plugged into the PC using the same music software?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

It's more of a matter with your electric line and your PC rather than the iFi DAC itself. I have the idac2, the modi, odac and they all exhibit the same issue as yours. Foobar throws a message similar to when I plug out the DAC during playback.


----------



## WasabiIceCream

My PC is plugged into a surge protector. I've tried both with and without, no difference.
  
 Is there anything I can do to prevent this, or do I just have to live with it...?


----------



## tf1216

Does the problem happen when the headphones are powered through the PC? Trying to determine if the playback software is te cause?

Does the problem happen with YouTube and all other audio services?


----------



## WasabiIceCream

tf1216 said:


> Does the problem happen when the headphones are powered through the PC? Trying to determine if the playback software is te cause?
> 
> Does the problem happen with YouTube and all other audio services?


 
  
 I'm pretty much using the device as an external sound card for my PC.
 The issue doesn't occur with my Motherboard's internal sound card, or any other USB device currently plugged in.
 But, when it does happen to the device, it's not just Foobar2000 that drops my audio.
 My audio is dropped in every application that is running, FireFox, games, everything.
 Sometimes, the device is even dropped from Windows Playback Devices entirely, forcing me to totally restart the PC.
 This has ruined some of my live streams and podcast recordings... 
  
 If it's an electrical issue, I'd assume that everything I have plugged in would at least show a similar sign.
 I have quite a few devices plugged into the same machine, yet this is the only one that has any issue.


----------



## tf1216

Does it happen when the iDSD is on battery?


----------



## chillaxing

wasabiicecream said:


> I'm pretty much using the device as an external sound card for my PC.
> The issue doesn't occur with my Motherboard's internal sound card, or any other USB device currently plugged in.
> But, when it does happen to the device, it's not just Foobar2000 that drops my audio.
> My audio is dropped in every application that is running, FireFox, games, everything.
> ...


 
  
 Do you have a friend with a comp rig?  Go try it on theirs and see what happens. if the problem still persist then send it back to iFi for repairs.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

wasabiicecream said:


> My PC is plugged into a surge protector. I've tried both with and without, no difference.
> 
> Is there anything I can do to prevent this, or do I just have to live with it...?


im not sure but in my case ever since I bought the ipur2 it no longer happens. Back when it did happen, sometimes even turning off the speaker to which the DAC is connected might result in the same error. But all I had to do was plug out the usb cable and plug it in again. 
I've had too many problems with usb too... Almost twice a week I have to reinstall the driver for my ifi because (it seems) the computer doesn't recognize it as the same device as before. Very frustrating at first, but as a tech guy I stopped caring at some point during the way... 
Back to your problem. it seems restarting the computer makes things ok again so I guess it's something with the computer itself? Have you encountered the same issue with the other USB DACs? I'm asking this because IME the keyboard and mouse never have any problem at all, even when the DAC got disconnected, be it ifi or schiit. Next, at the moment the issue happens, would you be able to plug the DAC into another computer right away to see if things go normal? My computer runs on a UPS as well, but still those things happen


----------



## Taggerung

Hey guys, is Music Direct and Sight+Sound Gallery trustworthy places to buy from?


----------



## chillaxing

taggerung said:


> Hey guys, is Music Direct and Sight+Sound Gallery trustworthy places to buy from?




Music direct is good to go


----------



## iFi audio

wasabiicecream said:


> I've been having the strangest damn issue with this thing, guys.
> 
> Often, when light switches are flipped, or an appliance is plugged into a socket in my place, the audio will completely drop.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Then you already elimnated the electronics from the chain. Best you open an STS.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 As a rule, such electrical anomalies are mains/earth-based.
  
 But best ask the STS guys to ask you to run some test to narrow things down.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## seaharp1

taggerung said:


> Hey guys, is Music Direct and Sight+Sound Gallery trustworthy places to buy from?


 
 Sight +Sound are great..know their stuff.


----------



## rantzmar

I've had the same issues and had a ticket open with support last year. Whats happening is the old iUSB PSU that you are using is dropping the connection . You need the new iUSB PSU 3.0, It has that one switch to always send to the Micro so it wont drop. When I switched to the new iUSB Power  3.0 I never had a problem with the drivers missing from the sound card, thus having the drop outs, unless the Micro was dead due to needing to be charged.


----------



## rantzmar

Next time it drops...look at the sound card on your computer. The iFi will not be listed there.


----------



## iFi audio

*iFi Quad DSD Sampler Album – Native DSD Music* 
  
We would like to thank our very kind friends at NativeDSDMusic.
  
To celebrate the launch of the Pro iCAN, they have offered this very special ‘sampler’ recorded in dsd256 (natively) for all our readers.
  
http://blog.nativedsd.com/nativedsd-presents-ifi-quad-dsd-sampler-album/
  
https://nativedsdpresents.nativedsd.com/albums/NDSD002-ifi-quad-dsd-sampler-album
  
 The coupon code *QuadDSD*
  
 The code is valid for three weeks only. The code gives a *100% discount. *
  
The music is as follows:
  
Track 1: Groovy and hypnotising percussion music..
Album & Artist:
• Yarlung Records: YAR 15195DSD – Smoke & Mirrors Percussion Ensemble
DSD Track:
• Vanish – track 1 - Udacrep Akubrad (Dorman) 8:41
  
Track 2: Jazz vocals and guitar, to dream away..
Album & Artist:
• Just Listen: JL002 – Thomas & Eva
DSD Track:
• 8 Ensembles in 1 Bit - track 5 - Early Autumn (Herman) 2:47
  
Track3 : Bach's famous Cello Suite, what a genius..
Album & Artist:
• Navis Classics: NC15003 - Joachim Eijlander
DSD Track:
• Bach: Cello Suites - track 1 - Prelude (Bach) 2:33
  
Track 4: 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - Waltz with Chopin's wonderful piano music..
Album & Artist
• Eudora Records: EUDDR 1402 - Josep Colom
DSD Track:
• Dialogue: Mozart & Chopin – track 10 - Waltz in A Minor, Op. 34, No. 2
(Chopin) 5:58
  
  
Enjoy the tunes natively on your Stereo50, micro iDSD, micro iDAC2, nano iDSD!
  
Thank you very much NativeDSDMusic!
NativeDSD.com


----------



## howdy

Short review of this great Device!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/16120


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

thrand1 said:


> I understand that there may be some "preference" posting in this thread, but thought I would see if anyone else was in a similar situation...
> 
> I have Shure SE425 IEMs, and would like a DAC and headphone amp that is "transportable" from my home to the office and back. Playback will be from an iPhone/iPad using Onkyo HF Player. I have a budget of up to $500 out of pocket (less is better!) for both a DAC/amp AND a network streaming appliance (Planning on Raspberry Pi 3 plus Hifiberry Digi+ for SPDIF to receiver). I have a gift card to Amazon for $200 that will aid in this as well.
> 
> ...


 while the oppo doesn't sound bad, it's not in the league of the other two. Even if there's no hiss it sounds sterile. I prefer my idac2 to the mojo, but it's my ears anyway. I have not received my shipped idsd yet so I can't tell how good it is


----------



## AutumnCrown

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I couldn't find anything about it.

 My idsd micro will take roughly a full second to start playing music after it has been not playing music, but still powered on and connected, for less than a minute. Is this normal? Is there anyway to reduce this delay?


----------



## Engell

autumncrown said:


> Sorry if this has already been answered, but I couldn't find anything about it.
> 
> My idsd micro will take roughly a full second to start playing music after it has been not playing music, but still powered on and connected, for less than a minute. Is this normal? Is there anyway to reduce this delay?


 

 windows / mac / phone?? and what version?
  
 but if in windows
 1) goto control panel > power options > change plan settings(on the current option selected) > change advanced power settings > USB settings > USB selective suspend > and disable
  
 2) goto control panel > Device manager > universal serial bus controllers(in the bottom) > right click on everything below this section an select properties one by one > select power management > deselect "allow this computer to turn of device to save power" > click ok and continue down the list. (not all will have a power management option, just skip and move on)
  
 also try to update to the newest firmware http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
 use the program installed with the driver to put the firmware on your micro, don't have it playing anything when doing this (C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe)
  
 after all is said an done reboot your computer just so you are sure that all the changes are in effect..
 hope this works for you


----------



## howdy

autumncrown said:


> Sorry if this has already been answered, but I couldn't find anything about it.
> 
> My idsd micro will take roughly a full second to start playing music after it has been not playing music, but still powered on and connected, for less than a minute. Is this normal? Is there anyway to reduce this delay?


 
 My understanding was that little delay was so there was no "popping sound" when starting to play music.


----------



## Engell

howdy said:


> My understanding was that little delay was so there was no "popping sound" when starting to play music.


 
 well that is not true... if you push pause and then play immediately after, it will just start playing instantly without any pop or anything


----------



## howdy

engell said:


> well that is not true... if you push pause and then play immediately after, it will just start playing instantly without any pop or anything


 
 I still think it has something to do with that and someone with some more knowledge on the subject will probably have a better detailed answer for you.There is a delay on the amps.


----------



## AutumnCrown

Question: for driving cans with high voltage swing such as the HD800, does it make for sense to put it on "Normal" mode instead of "eco" even if "eco" has plenty of volume, because normal has twice as much peak voltage?


----------



## canali

just want to ask members who've owned both the mojo and iFi micro iDSD
 ....why did you keep what you did?
  
 i have the micro iDSD, with .7 mercury cable and new ipurifier 2.
 and am considering selling it all (all excellent condition, lightly used).
  
 instead i'm thinking of buying a mojo to do it all:
 small enough to take on the road with my ipod touch...as well as work wotj my laptop as an dac/amp...
 or be a  preamp/dac to my headphone tube amp.
 ...mostly stream...have 500 itunes...getting slowly into exploring flac downloads.
 (not dsd as too limited the offerings).
  
 my cans are nothing too too difficult to drive: sony mdr7520...senn hd650.
  
 just something nice and simple and versatile about the mojo....i could always keep my
 newly purchased dragonfly red as a backup.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

canali said:


> just want to ask members who've owned both the mojo and iFi micro iDSD
> ....why did you keep what you did?
> 
> i have the micro iDSD, with .7 mercury cable and new ipurifier 2.
> ...


 
 Mojo..
 When I asked about the power into 16 ohm  I got no answer (ignored) until I made a claim that the FiiO e18 was more potent.
 When I had battery issues or thought I did the OP and the rep skipped my question posts, never reached out via PM or otherwise.
 Relic (who was better than the rep's and OP) played middleman and the rep was thinking I was a troll with a fake 2nd account. My item was a registered one for warranty.
 Have they updated post #3 to include warranty details and procedure which is more valuable than interviews.
  
 Not a great...actually poor experience. In the end the power and volume control did not match my listening style. The sound is amazing though.
  
 To be fair...
  
@iFi audio or associate contacted my via PM 3 months ago and asked *my private email* and said somebody was going to contact me.
 No idea what about?
  
 Never got the contact.
  
 Somebody a month ago did mail me but they really seemed to have no idea what was going on?
  
 iFi,
  
 You make great gear and have decent service. Don't screw that by asking for private emails and then doing nothing.  Not cool.
  
  
 Both companies need some polishing in the communication dept. but in the end the iFi micro fits my needs better than the Mojo


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Yep I can concur that every answer that I've got from iFi audio has that "marketing feel" to it. And if I ask 3 questions then at least 1 will get ignored. I really wanted to ask them for a review unit (I do write stuffs for tech sites in my country) before buying new ones but after these replies I decided to buy used units from Singapore instead.


----------



## CFGamescape

canali said:


> just want to ask members who've owned both the mojo and iFi micro iDSD
> ....why did you keep what you did?
> 
> i have the micro iDSD, with .7 mercury cable and new ipurifier 2.
> ...




Let me know if you end up selling the ip2.


----------



## chillaxing

canali said:


> just want to ask members who've owned both the mojo and iFi micro iDSD
> ....why did you keep what you did?
> 
> i have the micro iDSD, with .7 mercury cable and new ipurifier 2.
> ...


 
  
  
 To me both are great pieces of equipment.  
  
 I do side by side all the time, and seriously the differences are so minute that you won't be able to tell the difference once you get into the music ( I can get lost very easily).
  
 I mainly use the idsd as a desktop.  The versatility and power can't be match for the size.  Don't know how HBB does it, but I can't consider this to be portable.
  
 The mojo, I mainly use as a portable. I don't have to say what haven't already been said about this little thing.  I'm thinking about selling mine cuz its still a little bulky for my taste.
  
  
 Whatever you decided isn't going to be a bad choice.


----------



## canali

chillaxing said:


> To me both are great pieces of equipment.
> 
> I do side by side all the time, and seriously the differences are so minute that you won't be able to tell the difference once you get into the music ( I can get lost very easily).
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 thanks chillaxing...that is the gig with the mojo: given all the stellar accolades, I sort of feel like I'm missing something if I don't buy one, lol.
 people also tell me to try it and listen to nothing else for 2 weeks...then go back to your other sources to find the diffs.
 heck i might be like many on here: have an iFi micro iDSD, and a red dragonfly as a backup...and the chord mojo.
 but more and more i'm thinking of just keeping two: most likely mojo (if it pans out well) and the DF red.
  
 more and more i'm just into lighter gear with less hookups...i'm not a hardcore audiophile who needs top end stuff.
  
 one last thing: for those of us using windows any good software programs to check out?
 aurdivana is great i hear for apple...but what of windows based?  Roon is $$$, Jriver still exists i know


----------



## CFGamescape

canali said:


> one last thing: for those of us using windows any good software programs to check out?
> aurdivana is great i hear for apple...but what of windows based?  Roon is $$$, Jriver still exists i know


 
 Fidelizer Pro is a must for me. I know it's not a player, but it's foundational to my Windows PC setup.


----------



## gr8soundz

I use Fidelizer as well and won't listen to music on any of my computers without it. Been thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 lately but not sure if I'd make much difference beyond Fidelizer (that's another subject though).
  
 Each time I think of switching to another dac/amp the Micro's versatility (and superb sound quality) wins. The changeable power output (up to 4W which is far higher than any other portable), the different filters, xbass/3d, and direct out or preamp (on the RCAs) makes it near impossible to beat for the size and price. Sure, others dacs sound different but most lack even a third of the Micro's customization.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Just read about Fidelizer, What evidence is there that services have any impact on audio at all? Have you attempted to see if you can reliably pick out with and without Fidelizer in blind listening, multiple trials? I'm going to try it with my friend helping me as I have to know for myself. I'm always skeptical as suggestion/expectation are extremely powerful. It would be awesome if this actually did make a difference so I'll hope for the best.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Here is how I have been using the Micro mostly these days with my Kanto active speakers at my school working table.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Wow I didn't know the idsd has pre-amp integrated





gr8soundz said:


> I use Fidelizer as well and won't listen to music on any of my computers without it. Been thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 lately but not sure if I'd make much difference beyond Fidelizer (that's another subject though).
> 
> Each time I think of switching to another dac/amp the Micro's versatility (and superb sound quality) wins. The changeable power output (up to 4W which is far higher than any other portable), the different filters, xbass/3d, and direct out or preamp (on the RCAs) makes it near impossible to beat for the size and price. Sure, others dacs sound different but most lack even a third of the Micro's customization.


----------



## Engell

Sooo after having fun with ifi support after the latest 5.20 firmware, I can no longer recommend the ifi Micro iDSD.
  
 Firmware 5.20 introduces 5 seconds delay before playing audio after being idle for just 15 seconds(in windows atleast). this ofc. results in missing the start of a song unless you restart it after the DAC actually wakes up (you also miss all notifications, as no notification has a sound that is over 5 seconds long.)
  
 I made them aware of this issue, but their response was the following:


> Thanks for your patience. I took this time to speak with our Software Program Department. They said this slightly lengthier sequence is needed. So it stays. We wont remove it as it part of the core program. If this delay is too long for a user, then downgrade to the previous firmware. As it is not a bug, we won't be modifying the program on the back of this


 
  
 this btw. took them 5 days to figure out (pretty strange since it according to them was a conscious/tested design decision)
 And they noted my messages from day 1. Also slightly lengthier is a bit of a stretch when its 500% longer.
  
 I can't imagine why a digital DAC would need 5 seconds delay after being idle for 15 seconds.
 This is at least a problem on all versions of windows. You can run the older firmware, but at the moment as a windows user I am cut off from any future updates. Also don't know why it is suddenly needed to use 5 seconds to start the DAC compared to the previous version of the firmware.
  
 Until this is fixed *I cannot recommend the ifi Micro iDSD*


----------



## tf1216

How come you don't try an older firmware?  It might alleviate your concerns while the current firmware alleviates other folks' concerns.


----------



## Engell

tf1216 said:


> How come you don't try an older firmware?  It might alleviate your concerns while the current firmware alleviates other folks' concerns.


 
  
 i did downgrade 5.10, basically on ifi's request, because they couldn't be bothered to test themselves if that worked..
  
 from ifi support:


> We have too confirmed that there is a partial delay after waiting around 20 seconds. Can you confirm that dropping to the lower firmwares is OK?
> We shall touch based with our Technical Department.
> Thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I agree, this is not acceptable on the part of iFi, it shows a very poor understanding of how people use their products. Unless it is technically impossible to avoid, or by introducing the issue it solves a much more serious issue, such an issue should not be allowed to happen. I'm glad I didn't do the last update; however, what if a future update is actually beneficial, it seems I will have to accept a glitch. Not really very good customer support. Come on iFi, you have to do better than that.


----------



## Franatic

I would like to use the micro idsd's coax input with the Fiio X5 in a portable setup. Fiio's latest upgrade enables Dop output via spdif coax. Can the micro decode Dop (DSD64) via the coax input? I know some dacs do it. It rides a 176khz PCM signal so it is in the frequency spec for coax.
  
 I have a ton of DSD and it would be great if this works.


----------



## Aegruin

franatic said:


> I would like to use the micro idsd's coax input with the Fiio X5 in a portable setup. Fiio's latest upgrade enables Dop output via spdif coax. Can the micro decode Dop (DSD64) via the coax input? I know some dacs do it. It rides a 176khz PCM signal so it is in the frequency spec for coax.
> 
> I have a ton of DSD and it would be great if this works.


 
 I've used iDSD Micro's SPDIF Toslink input with DOP(DSD128 to PCM 192/24) from Toslink-Out of my computer. It should work.


----------



## Franatic

aegruin said:


> I've used iDSD Micro's SPDIF Toslink input with DOP(DSD128 to PCM 192/24) from Toslink-Out of my computer. It should work.


 
 Thanks, Aegruin. This will sound great, I'm sure. I had been using the idsd as a dac in my main sustem, now it is going mobile.
  
 The Fiio X5 has a dual purpose 3.5mm port. It can be line out or coax out. Fiio supplies the crappiest coax adapter cable.............not even going to try to use it. I'm having Forza Audio Works make a coax cable, RCA <> 3.5mm.  The micro is an amazing dac, now I'll use it as DAC/.headphone amp with a pair of Shure SRH1540s.
  
 I'll report back how this setup sounds after I get my cable.


----------



## iFi audio

sonic defender said:


> I agree, this is not acceptable on the part of iFi, it shows a very poor understanding of how people use their products. Unless it is technically impossible to avoid, or by introducing the issue it solves a much more serious issue, such an issue should not be allowed to happen. I'm glad I didn't do the last update; however, what if a future update is actually beneficial, it seems I will have to accept a glitch. Not really very good customer support. Come on iFi, you have to do better than that.


 
  
  
 Hi,
  
 We spoke to the coding team. Writing the XMOS code for our own products is not a trivial task (read: v. difficult and v.risky) Each new update takes months of dedicated work. Put it this way, our programming team works a lot harder than the marketing team here!
 If it was not, a lot more companies would be doing it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We spoke to the programming team on behalf of the 'delay request' and they told us they will take this delay on board for the future but at present, it does not negatively impact the operation/playback of the micro iDSD. And IF they re-wrote/amended the program, something else could go wrong down the line. Ultimately we are offering a practical suggestion to downgrade if a customer finds the extra seconds of delay too much and this is a deal-breaker.
  
 Yes you are correct that it could open a 'can of worms' (programming wise).
  
 Since the launch, our customers have received:
  
 6 'nil-charge' firmware updates for the micro iDSD
 7 'nil-charge' firmware updates for the nano iDSD 
  
 Most of these are for sonic and operation improvements (as opposed to bug fixes). The nano got Quad DSD upgrade.
  
 We can leave the firmware updates to a minimum like other manufacturers as we are simply trying to do the best for our customers. Cutting-edge firmware updates are nice but if we didnt do it, we would have one less headache (and yes, coding firmware is a major task).
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Aegruin

> But in the future, if people are not satisfied, genuinely please let us know because we can leave the firmware updates to a minimum like other manufacturers as we are simply trying to do the best for our customers but if they do not wish to have cutting-edge firmware updates, we have one less headache (and yes, coding firmware is a major task).


 
  
 Since you're reading this thread, saying that, this came to my mind right now; 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Switching ASIO driver to Windows Direct Sound is really a pain. I'm listening some music on Foobar with your ASIO drivers on iDSD Micro, and I'm seeing a funny video on youtube or facebook and when I pause the music on Foobar and try to watch that video on my browser, the device just can't switch ASIO to Windows Direct Sound. 
 I'm shutting the device off, un-plugging the USB, plugging it again and I'm opening the device again, and then it switches to the Windows Direct Sound and then I'm being able to watch that tiny piece of video.
  
 I've used DACs before. Switching between ASIO and Windows sound takes 3 second on other devices. When I'm using iDSD Micro, it requires a lot of "unplug and plug" work.
  
 This is not a major problem. I LOVE how iDSD Micro sounds and it is definitely worth it. But since you want us to let you know, I'm letting you know. Maybe you fix it, maybe not. But if you could make that problem go away, that would be awesome.


----------



## shadow04

I have also downgraded the firmware for my micro iDSD due to the audio delay in playback, music is less of an issue for me even if I constantly had to check if I did hit the play button, but it is especially irritating that I have to miss then scroll back a few seconds of dialog for my movie/show everytime I pause the player for a break. I initially thought it was faulty connection/unit but realised the only thing that changed before this happened was the firmware, downgraded and the problem happily went away.
  
 Hopefully this issue will go away for future firmware updates, still a brilliant amp/dac though, just don't update to the latest firmware if you want to avoid having the audio delay!


----------



## technobear

aegruin said:


> > But in the future, if people are not satisfied, genuinely please let us know because we can leave the firmware updates to a minimum like other manufacturers as we are simply trying to do the best for our customers but if they do not wish to have cutting-edge firmware updates, we have one less headache (and yes, coding firmware is a major task).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This is down to your Windows setup, not the iDSD.

Try stopping foobar instead of pausing it. Foobar is maintaining exclusive use of the DAC.


----------



## panteraman

iDSD + HD650 $669 at Adorama.
  
http://www.adorama.com/SEHD650P.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> This is down to your Windows setup, not the iDSD.
> 
> Try stopping foobar instead of pausing it. Foobar is maintaining exclusive use of the DAC.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Likely cause. So try this first as Technobear suggested.
  
 Though best ask the tech people on the STS to confirm.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Sonic Defender

@iFi audio, nobody was suggesting that the track record of iFi, or the commitment to regular updates isn't positive and well received. I love my Micro; howevere, we were discussing simply this last update in isolation, and that is fair game. If companies only get the love and customers are afraid of posting legitimate critiques that may negatively effect a company as even when things go wrong, that is an opportunity. First off, I would suggest that iFi should tell us exactly what the last update provided. I don't know if it was important or not, sometimes companies add really insignificant features or tiny tweaks that have no impact on sound quality, or the impact is theoretical as opposed to audible. If that was the case, and in doing so the update causes actually issues that will certainly impact the customers experience in a meaningful way, then the value of the update is questionable.
  
 I'm not suggesting this is the case as frankly, my previous post was a little premature as I don't know enough about the issue. Maybe the update was so important it needed to happen regardless of the introduced glitch; however, introducing any kind of glitch that impacts the user experience should in my mind always be an absolute last resort unless it is unavoidable. Again, I do not have enough information about this situation so iFi should post here:
  
 why the last update was needed, what it fixed or improved, who this helps; and relatedly, iFi should tell us who the reported glitch will effect and in what situations. I am not a fool and I do not think updating such technically advanced products is a trivial matter, I understand the hard work that goes on behind the scenes and I like all iFi customers appreciate it. And to be fair, as customers we have the ability to roll back firmware so I don't want to over-sell the impact and make a small issue seem bigger than it is. I have not been effected as I did not do the last update and I look forward to knowing more about it before I decide if I need to do the update, and if I don't do the update, what am I missing out on. Thank you, and sorry if my tone was overly harsh or critical, it wasn't meant in that spirit. Cheers.


----------



## Engell

> Originally Posted by *Sonic Defender* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> First off, I would suggest that iFi should tell us exactly what the last update provided. I don't know if it was important or not, sometimes companies add really insignificant features or tiny tweaks that have no impact on sound quality, or the impact is theoretical as opposed to audible. If that was the case, and in doing so the update causes actually issues that will certainly impact the customers experience in a meaningful way, then the value of the update is questionable.


 
  
 from the firmware update page


> *5.2 & 5.2B ‘Limoncello’
> (Latest versions)*13 May. 2016*Minor Optimisations*
> Similar to v5.1 but with:
> • Small code optimisations.
> • Fixed issues surrounding DoP standard; including ‘clicks’ when changing tracks and sonic differences to native DSD.


 
  
@iFi audio
 so this description isn't really matching the actual experience of updating version 5.20, also the support team should have been notified. But would again say that the 5 second startup is a no-go for me(and properly a lot of other users), you can't be so focused on technicality that the product loses it's usability.
  
 I would also like to encourage you to update the windows driver so its possible to define how long the USB audio pipe should be kept open when there is no audio, this would prevent the DAC from shutting down after only 15-20 seconds, I'm not sure what the goal is with shutting down the DAC while it is connected to a PC. (of course it is totally fine to go into standby after 15 minutes or so)


----------



## DonD

engell said:


> from the firmware update page
> 
> @iFi audio
> so this description isn't really matching the actual experience of updating version 5.20, also the support team should have been notified. But would again say that the 5 second startup is a no-go for me(and properly a lot of other users), you can't be so focused on technicality that the product loses it's usability.
> ...


 

 Who else has this 5 seconds status time? I never experienced this with my iDSD with any firmware version.
 I'm on Mac, isn't your configuration the root cause?


----------



## Engell

dond said:


> Who else has this 5 seconds status time? I never experienced this with my iDSD with any firmware version.
> I'm on Mac, isn't your configuration the root cause?


 
  
 it's the ifi windows driver(or some part of the audio driver chain) that closes the connection to the unit (USB audio pipe) after just 5 seconds of no audio.
 The newest version of the firmware now apparently has some deep sleep mode that is already activated after about 10 seconds of no connection.
  
 This will happen on any windows machine with firmware 5.20 installed
 But sure, could be that there is no problem on MAC with firmware 5.20, i haven't analyzed the traffic from that driver so dont know how it handles the USB audio pipes.
 If the driver keeps the connection open, then the DAC shouldn't go to sleep/deep sleep.


----------



## DonD

engell said:


> it's the ifi windows driver(or some part of the audio driver chain) that closes the connection to the unit (USB audio pipe) after just 5 seconds of no audio.
> The newest version of the firmware now apparently has some deep sleep mode that is already activated after about 10 seconds of no connection.
> 
> This will happen on any windows machine with firmware 5.20 installed
> ...


 

 Did you try version 5.2B which disable the sleep mode, did that help?


----------



## Engell

dond said:


> Did you try version 5.2B which disable the sleep mode, did that help?


 
  
 This ofc. solves the problem... but i guess there is a reason why they write to only use it with phones.
 But i would bet it has some negative effects, also if i ever forget to turn it off I'm guessing it will just drain the battery completely.
  
 well again the description from ifi of what this no sleep firmware has of consequences isn't exactly stellar.


----------



## Aegruin

technobear said:


> This is down to your Windows setup, not the iDSD.
> 
> Try stopping foobar instead of pausing it. Foobar is maintaining exclusive use of the DAC.


 
  


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Likely cause. So try this first as Technobear suggested.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mind = Blown. That works.
 But weirdly, it wasn't doing that on other ASIO drivers. Whatever, problem solved. Thanks!


----------



## Sonic Defender

Glad to see that this seems to ultimately have been a more minor issue than I thought so my apology for over-reacting to things. I try to be more careful about such things so I'll take this as a learning experience. Anyway, ultimately it didn't effect me so in that respect I'm happy. I hope for those that are effected that things get solved to their satisfaction.


----------



## potkettleblack




----------



## Sonic Defender

potkettleblack said:


>


 
 LOL, yah, hard to disagree.


----------



## Duncan

dond said:


> Who else has this 5 seconds status time? I never experienced this with my iDSD with any firmware version.
> I'm on Mac, isn't your configuration the root cause?


Copied from another thread...


tinnitize said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new here, just joined HeadFi some minutes ago because I would like to give a hint in the thread for the ifi micro iDSD how to cure that delay with new firmware 5.2 at least when starting music with Foobar: There exists a plug-in called „pregap“. After having installed it one can choose how long foobar2k will wait before playing.
> 
> ...




[updated with extra content in bold from initial post]

Hope this helps, if it does, leave some rep for the original poster here


----------



## technobear

duncan said:


> dond said:
> 
> 
> > Who else has this 5 seconds status time? I never experienced this with my iDSD with any firmware version.
> ...




Assuming that it is Pregap DSP v1.0 on this page: 

http://www.saunalahti.fi/cse/foobar2000/?changes=foo_dsp_pregap

...it doesn't seem to do anything. No matter what delay time I set, foobar2000 plays right away without any gap.

Scratch that, I missed a step. You have to open Playback->DSP Manager and enable the plugin.


----------



## technobear

OK, so far 1500 ms seems to do the trick (on firmware 5.1) and using the 'Noise' option instead of silence eliminates a very slight 'click' at the start of actual playback.


----------



## gr8soundz

$400 right now:
 http://www.adorama.com/IFIDSDMICRO.html
  
 They also still have the Micro and HD 650 combo for $669:
 http://www.adorama.com/SEHD650P.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

I have a Schiit audio Vali 2 as my amp. If I get an IFI iDAC, since it has a built in amp section, will it be considered double amping with my Vali 2?


----------



## Allanmarcus

goodguccigoo said:


> I have a Schiit audio Vali 2 as my amp. If I get an IFI iDAC, since it has a built in amp section, will it be considered double amping with my Vali 2?



No. You will go digital in and RCA out to your amp. The amp is only used for the headphone port.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

Cool, has anyone done a comparison between Modi 2 and iFi iDac?


----------



## utee05

gr8soundz said:


> $400 right now:
> http://www.adorama.com/IFIDSDMICRO.html
> 
> They also still have the Micro and HD 650 combo for $669:
> http://www.adorama.com/SEHD650P.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


 
 Just jumped on the combo deal. Will be using the micro with my iphone 6 and my soon to be arriving zmf blackwoods.


----------



## jincuteguy

How do you guys connect the Digital connector on the iFi Micro iDSD DAC / Amp? I know the Chord Mojo also has a digital connector but it's regular Toslink (square shape), and it's different on the iFi iDSD.  
  
 Can I use this cable for the iDSD? 
 https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-Digital-Audio-Coaxial/dp/B00FMZX5RI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1465658745&sr=8-2&keywords=digital+coaxial+audio+cable


----------



## Rearwing

Withdrawn due to a senior moment!


----------



## Rearwing

Brain fade, my apologies! Yes that cable should fit on the digital input terminal on the iDSD. If not you can get adapters, like the ones I got for my Hugo.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

goodguccigoo said:


> Cool, has anyone done a comparison between Modi 2 and iFi iDac?


 
 don't know about the original idac but the idac2 blows the Modi2 out of the water. The Modi2 and the odac can be considered best under $300 but at the current state of the market I think that's as far as they're going to get.


----------



## technobear

jincuteguy said:


> How do you guys connect the Digital connector on the iFi Micro iDSD DAC / Amp? I know the Chord Mojo also has a digital connector but it's regular Toslink (square shape), and it's different on the iFi iDSD.
> 
> Can I use this cable for the iDSD?
> https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-Digital-Audio-Coaxial/dp/B00FMZX5RI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1465658745&sr=8-2&keywords=digital+coaxial+audio+cable




You seem to be confusing TOSLINK which is an OPTICAL cable with COAXIAL which is a WIRE.

The iDSD accepts both in the same socket.

To use COAXIAL, just get a standard RCA to RCA cable like the one you linked.

To use TOSLINK, there is an adaptor in the box with your iDSD so a standard TOSLINK cable can be used.

Alternatively you can get a TOSLINK cable with the 3.5mm TOSLINK plug already fitted like this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/FosPower%C2%AE-Plated-Toslink-Digital-Optical/dp/B00T8HWUVS/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1465665195&sr=8-12&keywords=TOSLINK+cable


----------



## willywill

gr8soundz said:


> $400 right now:
> http://www.adorama.com/IFIDSDMICRO.html
> 
> They also still have the Micro and HD 650 combo for $669:
> http://www.adorama.com/SEHD650P.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


 
 Adorama suck, i bought it Thurday for store pick up, 3 days later nothing. i just cancel the order and will have it ship to my house


----------



## jincuteguy

technobear said:


> You seem to be confusing TOSLINK which is an OPTICAL cable with COAXIAL which is a WIRE.
> 
> The iDSD accepts both in the same socket.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So can the iDSD use the power via the USB? Like let say if I hooked it up to my PC using the USB cable, will the iDSD get the power from my PC? and i dont have to worry about charging the battery?


----------



## Allanmarcus

jincuteguy said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > You seem to be confusing TOSLINK which is an OPTICAL cable with COAXIAL which is a WIRE.
> ...


 
  
 Depends. Lots on info here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?cid=20


----------



## Brooko

jincuteguy said:


> So can the iDSD use the power via the USB? Like let say if I hooked it up to my PC using the USB cable, will the iDSD get the power from my PC? and i dont have to worry about charging the battery?


 
 Generally yes - it is how I use mine - pretty much solely as a desktop solution.


----------



## The Walrus

I've been using my micro iDSD with T1 gen 2 for sox months now. 80% of the time the ECO mode is more than enough to drive 600 ohm T1's.I never need the Turbo mode. which makes me wonder: Which headphones need that much power? Any of you guys use the turbo?


----------



## howdy

the walrus said:


> I've been using my micro iDSD with T1 gen 2 for sox months now. 80% of the time the ECO mode is more than enough to drive 600 ohm T1's.I never need the Turbo mode. which makes me wonder: Which headphones need that much power? Any of you guys use the turbo?



I used Turbo for Hifiman HE6 and had to turn it to about 12-1 o'clock.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

the walrus said:


> I've been using my micro iDSD with T1 gen 2 for sox months now. 80% of the time the ECO mode is more than enough to drive 600 ohm T1's.I never need the Turbo mode. which makes me wonder: Which headphones need that much power? Any of you guys use the turbo?


 

 I use turbo on the T1. I only use Turbo.


----------



## chillaxing

the walrus said:


> I've been using my micro iDSD with T1 gen 2 for sox months now. 80% of the time the ECO mode is more than enough to drive 600 ohm T1's.I never need the Turbo mode. which makes me wonder: Which headphones need that much power? Any of you guys use the turbo?




Turbo user here too. Lcd2 he400i


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I'm just afraid that constant charging will reduce the battery life and one day my idsd will no longer boot


----------



## JootecFromMars

Remember. Whether you have the idsd in eco, normal or turbo, according to ifi, the listening volume should be between 12:00 and 3:00.


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> I'm just afraid that constant charging will reduce the battery life and one day my idsd will no longer boot


 
 That is a valid concern and you should (we all should) run our battery down at least once a month. I'm going to try to do this. If I want the battery to be the source of power for my OTG connected phone what is the order of device powering on supposed to be? I think the Micro needs to be turned on first correct?


----------



## Maxpain

Hey folks, I am also interested on how to preserve the battery life of the micro. In my curent use I only use it as a desktop device so I am allways using the usb power option. Is this the wrong way? Should I use the battery from time to time and let it completely uncharge?


----------



## Sonic Defender

maxpain said:


> Hey folks, I am also interested on how to preserve the battery life of the micro. In my curent use I only use it as a desktop device so I am allways using the usb power option. Is this the wrong way? Should I use the battery from time to time and let it completely uncharge?


 
 Yes, all batteries need to be discharged or they lose their ability to hold as deep a charge. Some batteries are better than others. There is a web site that really gets into this, I think it is called battery university, or something to that effect.


----------



## Maxpain

Thank you for the information! I will that in mind.


----------



## jincuteguy

So as long as you hooked up the iDSD to the PC with USB, you won't run out of battery?


----------



## Sonic Defender

maxpain said:


> Thank you for the information! I will that in mind.


 
 Yes, when you read through it seems that some additional studies showed that you get better battery life (Li-ion) by not discharging below 30% of capacity, but also not charging beyond 80% total capacity. I couldn't find the original article I found that discussed this, but it was rather technical and explained why this was so. I of course lack the technical training required to refute or confirm the claims made, but it does seem to have merit as others I have read seem to agree with the principle of not leaving batteries full, nor draining them fully either. Regardless, I think at least periodically discharging the Micro battery is a good idea, not fully discharged. I wonder if there are software utilities that would allow us to monitor the battery in the Micro via our computer?


----------



## Aegruin

After reading about the battery(well, 20min ago), I decided to drain it's battery while listening the device. I started to use iDSD on Battery Mode. I realized it has a darker background and more impactful sound than using it on USB Power Mode.(not placebo)
  
 Really? Can't we achieve that on USB power?


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> Yes, when you read through it seems that some additional studies showed that you get better battery life (Li-ion) by not discharging below 30% of capacity, but also not charging beyond 80% total capacity. I couldn't find the original article I found that discussed this, but it was rather technical and explained why this was so. I of course lack the technical training required to refute or confirm the claims made, but it does seem to have merit as others I have read seem to agree with the principle of not leaving batteries full, nor draining them fully either. Regardless, I think at least periodically discharging the Micro battery is a good idea, not fully discharged. I wonder if there are software utilities that would allow us to monitor the battery in the Micro via our computer?


 
  
 I remember reading the same thing (also can't find the article/post). I think it was by iFi stating the Micro will keep the battery around 80% in a usb desktop setting to help longevity.
  


aegruin said:


> After reading about the battery(well, 20min ago), I decided to drain it's battery while listening the device. I started to use iDSD on Battery Mode. I realized it has a darker background and more impactful sound than using it on USB Power Mode.(not placebo)
> 
> Really? Can't we achieve that on USB power?


 
  
 The sound is slightly better in battery mode because usb power is still much dirtier. That's why we have all these usb cleaning devices like the iUSB, iPurifier2, Wyrd, Regen, Jitterbug, etc. Only quirk with the Micro is having to turn it on before connecting the usb cable. I use my Micro with a desktop now but don't want to wear out the USB connectors by doing that every time. Think I might change back to the version B firmware so it only pulls power when off. That should force it to run from battery only when on.


----------



## Aegruin

gr8soundz said:


> I remember reading the same thing (also can't find the article/post). I think it was by iFi stating the Micro will keep the battery around 80% in a usb desktop setting to help longevity.
> 
> 
> The sound is slightly better in battery mode because usb power is still much dirtier. That's why we have all these usb cleaning devices like the iUSB, iPurifier2, Wyrd, Regen, Jitterbug, etc. Only quirk with the Micro is having to turn it on before connecting the usb cable. I use my Micro with a desktop now but don't want to wear out the USB connectors by doing that every time. Think I might change back to the version B firmware so it only pulls power when off. That should force it to run from battery only when on.


 
 Thank you for the information. I heard iDSD has a iPrufier built in inside. This wasn't enough I guess.
  
 If I buy a JitterBug, will sound be the same as the Battery Mode on the USB Power? Anyone tried it?


----------



## gr8soundz

aegruin said:


> Thank you for the information. I heard iDSD has a iPrufier built in inside. This wasn't enough I guess.
> 
> If I buy a JitterBug, will sound be the same as the Battery Mode on the USB Power? Anyone tried it?


 
  
 The iPurifier tech built into the Micro is from 2013 (I believe). The iP2 also adds reclocking and repeating of the usb signal compared to the original. I bet the upcoming iDSD Pro will have that newer tech built-in like the Micro did.
  
 I use both the iPurifier2 (type A; direct to the Micro) and a Jitterbug on the other end of a Mercury usb cable. I got each piece one at a time (months apart) and can confirm that, even on battery power (with a PC built for audio), each piece makes noticeable improvements to the sound. Using all of them chained together, my desktop never sounded so good. Can't imagine listening to music from my PC without them now.


----------



## chillaxing

gr8soundz said:


> The iPurifier tech built into the Micro is from 2013 (I believe). The iP2 also adds reclocking and repeating of the usb signal compared to the original. I bet the upcoming iDSD Pro will have that newer tech built-in like the Micro did.
> 
> I use both the iPurifier2 (type A; direct to the Micro) and a Jitterbug on the other end of a Mercury usb cable. I got each piece one at a time (months apart) and can confirm that, even on battery power (with a PC built for audio), each piece makes noticeable improvements to the sound. Using all of them chained together, my desktop never sounded so good. Can't imagine listening to music from my PC without them now.




Which piece made the biggest improvement, ipurifier, mercury, or jitterbug?

Do you guys have a link for the jitterbug?


----------



## Sonic Defender

chillaxing said:


> Which piece made the biggest improvement,


 
 The brain


----------



## chillaxing

Haha. I left myself open for that.


Guess I'm just gonna have to try them all then


----------



## Aegruin

The difference between Battery and USB Power Modes are like night and day. Everyone can clearly hear the difference. If the only difference between these modes are the source of the power and if the job of those devices are to clean USB's power, I can believe that, this is not brain/placebo.
  
 But the question is, is it worth it? I can use Battery Mode all day and I can charge iDSD while I'm sleeping. This is the question that is need to be answered. Hmm...


----------



## Sonic Defender

aegruin said:


> The difference between Battery and USB Power Modes are like night and day. Everyone can clearly hear the difference. If the only difference between these modes are the source of the power and if the job of those devices are to clean USB's power, I can believe that, this is not brain/placebo.
> 
> But the question is, is it worth it? I can use Battery Mode all day and I can charge iDSD while I'm sleeping. This is the question that is need to be answered. Hmm...


 
 I'll have to compare myself, but I have never heard any noise from USB on any device.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

sonic defender said:


> Yes, when you read through it seems that some additional studies showed that you get better battery life (Li-ion) by not discharging below 30% of capacity, but also not charging beyond 80% total capacity. I couldn't find the original article I found that discussed this, but it was rather technical and explained why this was so. I of course lack the technical training required to refute or confirm the claims made, but it does seem to have merit as others I have read seem to agree with the principle of not leaving batteries full, nor draining them fully either. Regardless, I think at least periodically discharging the Micro battery is a good idea, not fully discharged. I wonder if there are software utilities that would allow us to monitor the battery in the Micro via our computer?


 I'm pretty sure that almost all techsites will tell you to never completely discharge li-ion batteries. As for the 30-80 I can't verify but it's true that for devices that won't be used for a long time we should discharge them to about 40% then put into storage.


----------



## gr8soundz

chillaxing said:


> Which piece made the biggest improvement, ipurifier, mercury, or jitterbug?


 
  
 To me, its a toss up between the Jitterbug and iPurfier2. I recommend both but the Jitterbug is the easier choice at half the iP2's price.
  
 Didn't expect to hear much improvement from the Jitterbug and planned to return it. Now just realized that I've never once disconnected it from the usb port after first connecting it. Its one of the few pieces in my entire desktop setup that became permanent on first try.
  
 Hard to quantify specific improvements to each one as I haven't tried the iP2 without the Jitterbug. I expected a bigger jump from the iP2 but didn't hear as large an improvement adding it compared to what I heard after connecting the Jitterbug alone (hope that makes sense). Now that they're working so great together I ain't touching it!


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> I'll have to compare myself, but I have never heard any noise from USB on any device.


 
  
 You don't hear noise itself since the digital usb signal has to be converted to analog first.
  
 I'm no sound scientist but, from what I've learned, a dirtier usb signal can cause more errors in the final sound you hear. Unlike data files that can take advantage of error correction to avoid file corruption, usb dacs are more of a one-way transmission. The dac simply plays back whatever it gets over usb. So if there is noise corrupting the signal, the final analog conversion can end up being less correct due to more errors in the digital signal. Either way, the 'sound' still gets through but I think we've all heard desktop audio from a pc that didn't sound quite right. This is why we're starting to see more terms like galvanic isolation, asynchronous, reclock/regenerate, etc. All to give the data signal a better chance for accuracy.


----------



## Sonic Defender

gr8soundz said:


> You don't hear noise itself since the digital usb signal has to be converted to analog first.
> 
> I'm no sound scientist but, from what I've learned, a dirtier usb signal can cause more errors in the final sound you hear. Unlike data files that can take advantage of error correction to avoid file corruption, usb dacs are more of a one-way transmission. The dac simply plays back whatever it gets over usb. So if there is noise corrupting the signal, the final analog conversion can end up being less correct due to more errors in the digital signal. Either way, the 'sound' still gets through but I think we've all heard desktop audio from a pc that didn't sound quite right. This is why we're starting to see more terms like galvanic isolation, asynchronous, reclock/regenerate, etc. All to give the data signal a better chance for accuracy.


 
 Sounds like a theoretical thing that can be measured, but not necessarily heard. If we can't say what the "problem" is or what it sounds like, then it suggests the problem must be so minor/subtle that any difference heard by correcting it could also very easily be expectation. I put a Melodius Audion MX-U8 SPDIF conditioner on my system and I could never hear a difference.


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> Sounds like a theoretical thing that can be measured, but not necessarily heard. If we can't say what the "problem" is or what it sounds like, then it suggests the problem must be so minor/subtle that any difference heard by correcting it could also very easily be expectation. I put a Melodius Audion MX-U8 SPDIF conditioner on my system and I could never hear a difference.


 
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-audio-gremlins-exposed-beyond-1s-and-0s-ifi-audio


----------



## Aegruin

sonic defender said:


> I'll have to compare myself, but I have never heard any noise from USB on any device.


 
 It's not like a noise. In fact, I don't know how to describe it. Hmm... It's kinda like THD. Distortion. But a little different. It's not like a "USB noise". There is no hissing or something.
  
 Yesterday before writing here I've made it confirmed with my roommates(2) and a friend of them. (4 of us)
 They don't know the difference between USB or Battery Power things. I just made the change and ask them "which one is better?". They've all implied Battery Power and when I ask the difference they all said "you could listen more loudly before it's get disturbing. It's smoother and detailed."
  
 I don't know. It's absolutely like that, there is no chance that it's placebo. I have a Asus VII Gene mainboard. Maybe something is wrong with it. I will try it on another computer, if there is a change, I will be mentioning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW I've tried SPDIF. When I power it with a USB cable(plug USB first and then plug Toslink cable) it sounds the same as USB Power Mode.(worse) When I don't plug any USB(just Toslink), it sounds like Battery Mode.


----------



## Brooko

I'm with Sonic Defender on this one.  No difference for me between battery or USB.  Might just mean we have better regulated power supply, or that you have issues with your Mobo maybe?
  
 I also tried the iPurifier2 - but it did nothing for my current set-up, so I sent it to someone else to get their impressions of it. I'll get it back and retest it in another couple of months.
  
 I guess if you're lucky enough to have good USB and steady regulated power (no glitches or drops), then the difference between USB and battery will be pretty much inaudible.  I'm one of the lucky ones.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I have always believed that the effectiveness of higher level gears depend on the next equipment for plugged into them. Meaning if your amp is mediocre then an improvement in DAC won't be too audible. Same goes for usb signal cleaner. 

In my case the improvement with the ipur2 plugged in is much better when the output is my speaker system. But in the end, if your mobo is good, the ipurifier, jitterbug and schiit wyrd should be pointless.


----------



## gr8soundz

brooko said:


> I'm with Sonic Defender on this one.  No difference for me between battery or USB.  Might just mean we have better regulated power supply, or that you have issues with your Mobo maybe?
> 
> I also tried the iPurifier2 - but it did nothing for my current set-up, so I sent it to someone else to get their impressions of it. I'll get it back and retest it in another couple of months.
> 
> I guess if you're lucky enough to have good USB and steady regulated power (no glitches or drops), then the difference between USB and battery will be pretty much inaudible.  I'm one of the lucky ones.


 
  
 True, a steady power source could be the difference. My house doesn't have the cleanest power coming in. That's why I built my audio PC with isolated everything. Even have it plugged into a rackmount size Monster surge protector.
  
 I also can't hear much of a difference from the Micro on battery power or usb. But I honestly expected to hear NO difference from adding the iP2 and Jitterbug. Figured I'd try them and send em back but I'm still surprised at the improvements which are sometimes subtle but definitely there.


----------



## Aegruin

sonic defender said:


> Sounds like a theoretical thing that can be measured, but not necessarily heard. If we can't say what the "problem" is or what it sounds like, then it suggests the problem must be so minor/subtle that any difference heard by correcting it could also very easily be expectation. I put a Melodius Audion MX-U8 SPDIF conditioner on my system and I could never hear a difference.


 
  


brooko said:


> I'm with Sonic Defender on this one.  No difference for me between battery or USB.  Might just mean we have better regulated power supply, or that you have issues with your Mobo maybe?
> 
> I also tried the iPurifier2 - but it did nothing for my current set-up, so I sent it to someone else to get their impressions of it. I'll get it back and retest it in another couple of months.
> 
> I guess if you're lucky enough to have good USB and steady regulated power (no glitches or drops), then the difference between USB and battery will be pretty much inaudible.  I'm one of the lucky ones.


 
  
 Well. Then, you wouldn't believe that. The problem wasn't the computer or the power supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Now, I don't know which one did it but;

I've changed the wall outlet that I'm powering my computer.
In Cyprus, we all are using that weird UK power outlets on the wall.(3-pin things) I've changed my UK to Euro power outlet converter.
I've changed my 5-way extension outlet.
  
 And poooof. 
  
 I believe USB power and Battery power are the same now. That was some weird stuff. I recommend everyone to check this kind of connections.
  
 Really weird. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 edit: Yes, I've tested it for 1 hour. The problem was the outlet or some part of the outlet. Really weird...


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> I have always believed that the effectiveness of higher level gears depend on the next equipment for plugged into them. Meaning if your amp is mediocre then an improvement in DAC won't be too audible. Same goes for usb signal cleaner.


 
 Well, my gear isn't exactly TOTL, but I go from my MX-U8 via a decent AES cable to my NAD M51 (a well respected DAC) to my NAD M3 integrated amp so the gear in this chain should be revealing enough. Again, coming from the USB out on an old Dell desktop using a USB cable I stole from a printer I never had noise, nor did I get any improvement from the MX-U8.


----------



## canali

question guys:
  
  the micro iDSD:
 what are it's limitations on various cans?...does it work fine with senn 650s, for example, but not 800s perhaps?
 or not with planars?
  
 just asking as i'm experimenting.
 i've been using my very easy to drive sony mdr7520 closed back monitors all this while... and just recently tried the senn 650s
 which of course are more power hungry.
  
 finally got back to using the iFi micro iDSD as a preamp to my mad ear+ tube headphone amp.
 (have been mostly using the new dragonfly red the last few weeks)
  
 i went onto the senn 650 thread asking about trying new cans.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/197776/sennheiser-hd650-impressions-thread/34320#post_12651382
 instead many came back with improving my chain: you know, the dac and amp.
  
 but i thought the dac and amp on the micro iDSD are pretty good.
 (some had also suggested an OTL amp, but i sent that off to dr lloyd peppard at mad and included his reply
 ..he just recently tweaked my tube amp into an HD version)
  
 sorry for the long message...i've posted similarly on chord's thread, too.


----------



## cav1sa

canali said:


> question guys:
> 
> the micro iDSD:
> what are it's limitations on various cans?...does it work fine with senn 650s, for example, but not 800s perhaps?
> or not with planars?


 
  
 It works beautifully with 650s, LCD-2F and CIEMs. It's a beast!
 I find the crossfeed particularly useful on the dark 650s and LCD-2 as it adds a bit of treble they sometimes lack.


----------



## iFi audio

canali said:


> question guys:
> 
> the micro iDSD:
> what are it's limitations on various cans?...does it work fine with senn 650s, for example, but not 800s perhaps?
> ...


 
 Hi.
  
 We actually have both the HD650's, HD800 and HD800s - all ran on the iDSD micro 
  
 Eco mode / Normal seems to be enough so for sure if you have the above cans you can pair the iDSD micro.
  
 Check out the PS4 with the iDSD micro and HD650's at our UK Gadgetshow Live!
  
  

  
 We also demo with the HE6 and Audezes > LCD2, LCD-X.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

aegruin said:


> Well. Then, you wouldn't believe that. The problem wasn't the computer or the power supply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I can't explain why but it's true that in my country a lot of people buy high quality outlet to improve their audio system, be it headphones or speakers.
  
 Like this one for example


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

sonic defender said:


> Well, my gear isn't exactly TOTL, but I go from my MX-U8 via a decent AES cable to my NAD M51 (a well respected DAC) to my NAD M3 integrated amp so the gear in this chain should be revealing enough. Again, coming from the USB out on an old Dell desktop using a USB cable I stole from a printer I never had noise, nor did I get any improvement from the MX-U8.


 
 Your amp and DAC are many times more expensive than mine. But again the truth is that we'll never know for sure. I do believe what Schiit implies with their semi-humorous introduction about the Wyrd is that it may or may not result in improvement.


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> Your amp and DAC are many times more expensive than mine. But again the truth is that we'll never know for sure. I do believe what Schiit implies with their semi-humorous introduction about the Wyrd is that it may or may not result in improvement.


 
 I'm not saying this is a fact, but even if the perceived improvement in sound people ascribe to the various USB treating devices is simply placebo (again, I'm not saying that it is) ultimately it doesn't matter. If people believe things sound better then that is a win for them. I bought the MX-U8 thinking it might help, maybe it did a little and I just didn't notice?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Yep totally agree on that. In the end only what we hears matter, even if it's not physical.


----------



## Engell

sonic defender said:


> I'm not saying this is a fact, but even if the perceived improvement in sound people ascribe to the various USB treating devices is simply placebo


 

 Did you remember to buy the $2000 power cable that plugs into the wall where the other 2miles of wire is still the same or what about the gold plated optical cable with platinum power :-D


----------



## Whitigir

engell said:


> Did you remember to buy the $2000 power cable that plugs into the wall where the other 2miles of wire is still the same or what about the gold plated optical cable with platinum power :-D




Do you have any idea how powerful main electrical lines are ? Especially, how do you know other people only upgrade the outlet and power cord ? Does it make any senses for you who is not obsessed by cables to see this obvious problem ?

There are 99% chances that they already upgraded their main power lines from the main panel to circuit breakers to in wall power lines and toward the power outlet, and then spend money on the power cord.


----------



## Aegruin

williamleonhart said:


> I can't explain why but it's true that in my country a lot of people buy high quality outlet to improve their audio system, be it headphones or speakers.
> 
> Like this one for example


 
 That would be a great idea. I will probably look for something like that.
  
 After some days of experiment, I've realized the problem isn't the power outlet converters either. The problem is the water heater of the house. When it is working, it makes that USB Power noise and when someone close it, the problem stops immediately. (I've made my friend close the water heater while I was listening iDSD Micro.)
 I thought "let's use special 2103120$ audiophile power adaptors!" guys were crazy. But I've seen it. This isn't placebo. This is the truth. I have to find a portable solution. Hmm.. I have to try iPurufier 2, JitterBug and stuff.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

aegruin said:


> That would be a great idea. I will probably look for something like that.
> 
> After some days of experiment, I've realized the problem isn't the power outlet converters either. The problem is the water heater of the house. When it is working, it makes that USB Power noise and when someone close it, the problem stops immediately. (I've made my friend close the water heater while I was listening iDSD Micro.)
> I thought "let's use special 2103120$ audiophile power adaptors!" guys were crazy. But I've seen it. This isn't placebo. This is the truth. I have to find a portable solution. Hmm.. I have to try iPurufier 2, JitterBug and stuff.


 
 It should be available on eBay. My friend plugs his computer and his speaker system into this one and the sound was really clean. However he does have an iUSB Power3 Nano as well, and I couldn't test the set without the Weiduka to see if it has any actual effects.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Need a shorter cable but this sounds nice, iPurifier2   FTW!


----------



## CFGamescape

hawaiibadboy said:


> Need a shorter cable but this sounds nice, iPurifier2   FTW!


 
 Sweet! I just got one, too! It's currently plugged into my Wyrd because the USB cable into the iDSD is custom and has a female USB-A and the adapter that comes with the iP2 is a female A-to-female B. I may get a new (nice) A-to-B USB to retain this chain and move the iP2 to the iDSD, or a get a new adapter, but I'll try it without the Wyrd in the chain with the USB cable I have right now to see if there's any difference. It's always hard for me to tell the difference unless you have all things working together, but we'll see.
  
 I was shocked at how small the iP2 is. Pictures make it look way bigger.


----------



## CFGamescape

Decided to de-clutter my chain; got rid of the Wyrd. Going to roll with this for a while.


----------



## AutumnCrown

I'm wondering if it's best to use normal rather than eco mode for a headphone like the HD800 with a high voltage swing because it has a higher max voltage?


----------



## technobear

They exist! They're real! They're here...





Yes folks, the iPurifier2 Type A have landed 

Happy days


----------



## Sonic Defender

autumncrown said:


> I'm wondering if it's best to use normal rather than eco mode for a headphone like the HD800 with a high voltage swing because it has a higher max voltage?


 
 I would think so. Do you find that in Eco mode it drives the 800 to the volume and quality of sound you feel is appropriate? If Eco mode works for you, use it, otherwise Normal I think is a good choice. I use Normal most of the time anyway so I'm biased.


----------



## TheAttorney

Based on my experience with the HD600's, which are a great match for the iFi, and I'm guessing are easier to drive than the HD800's, I would say stick with Normal mode. The Eco mode has more than enough power in terms of maximum volume, but Normal mode brings out better punch and dynamics at the same volume.
  
 Continuing with the HD600's, I didn't find the Turbo gave any SQ advantage over Normal, so Normal it is for me and the battery still lasts for ages in this mode.


----------



## floydfan33

Anyone having issues with FW 5.2 and USB/Toslink switching with Windows 10? My HTPC is powered up but no signal is being sent to the Micro. 

Using JRiver I used to have no issue switching between USB and Toslink from my Cd, but since going to 5.2 I have to power down my HTPC (or unplug USB) to use optical .


----------



## floydfan33

floydfan33 said:


> Anyone having issues with FW 5.2 and USB/Toslink switching with Windows 10? My HTPC is powered up but no signal is being sent to the Micro.
> 
> Using JRiver I used to have no issue switching between USB and Toslink from my Cd, but since going to 5.2 I have to power down my HTPC (or unplug USB) to use optical .




Never mind a reboot seems to have fixed it.


----------



## cbl117

gr8soundz said:


> $400 right now:
> http://www.adorama.com/IFIDSDMICRO.html
> 
> They also still have the Micro and HD 650 combo for $669:
> http://www.adorama.com/SEHD650P.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


 

 Thanks.  I picked up the bundle for 669.  I've been itching for another headphone so this kills two birds!


----------



## proedros

has anyone used a *NT6 CIEM* with the idsd micro ? is the NT6 performance enhanced ?

 thank you


----------



## floydfan33

Wondering if anyone has experienced a similar issue with their iDSD  Micro and can offer any advice?
  
Summary of issue

Working last night via preout to headphone amp. Settings were Toslink in (same thing happens with USB), Preout set to direct, volume was fine. Today in going to playback there was very low volume from the preout, switched to the headphone out and there is very low volume from the headphone output even in turbo.

Tried rolling the firmware back to 5.0, no change, and then back to 5.2 no change. I have adjusted all switches with no success. Does anyone know if there is a hard reset on the unit? I was having switching issues yesterday too, but they seemed to resolve with a PC reboot.
  
I've opened a ticket with iFi, but thought I'd ask here too.


----------



## gr8soundz

floydfan33 said:


> Wondering if anyone has experienced a similar issue with their iDSD  Micro and can offer any advice?
> 
> Summary of issue
> 
> ...


 
  
 I see you tried all the switches and multiple inputs/outputs but it still sounds like the IE Match switch could be the problem. It moved on mine a couple times (even after making sure it was off; the Direct/Preamp switch on mine is much stiffer by comparison) until I finally put the rubber feet on to raise the Micro.


----------



## floydfan33

gr8soundz said:


> I see you tried all the switches and multiple inputs/outputs but it still sounds like the IE Match switch could be the problem. It moved on mine a couple times (even after making sure it was off; the Direct/Preamp switch on mine is much stiffer by comparison) until I finally put the rubber feet on to raise the Micro.


 
 Thanks for the response. Have tried multiple positions. With the volume at max to my HD800 the IEMatch Off has EXTREMELY low volume and the other 2 positions are inaudible. I'm suspecting something is cooked, but will try running the battery down and recharging.


----------



## gr8soundz

Yeah, I was just about to edit my reply (when I saw your response) and recommend giving the battery a full charge. Perhaps another 24hrs like the initial charge recommended by iFi.


----------



## technobear

Yep, that was my first thought having seen a similar case recently. Flat battery.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

As far as I know, there should be no need to drain li-ion batteries or over-charge them.


----------



## Musicans2

Luv the ifi pictures!!!!!!


----------



## grig

I was just thinking to buy this idsd or the ican se. What should I expect in matter of pure quality sound?! Is there any chance to use my fiio x1 with ?! My actually can are the dt990 pro, looking forward to buy hd650/700. Btw my actual desktop setup is based on the asus xonar muses edition.
Thanks for any advice!

Edited


----------



## gr8soundz

grig said:


> I was just thinking to buy this idsd or the itube se.


 
  
 When/where was the iTube SE announced?


----------



## grig

Sorry I realizing just now, thanks for that, i was thinking ican se .... Anyway even itube is pretty interesting


----------



## technobear

grig said:


> I was just thinking to buy this idsd or the ican se.




Guess it depends whether or not you need a DAC (as the iDSD has one and the iCAN doesn't).

If you do need a DAC, do you need it to be portable? The iDSD has a battery.

If you do need a DAC but you don't need portable then look at the iDAC2.

If you don't need a DAC but just want a headphone amp then the iCAN is a good choice.


----------



## grig

For my desktop use I'm happy with my muses edition (dac/amp)

I was looking to buy something better than fiio x1 (dac is decent the amp is the big issue) which i use with my o2. The pack obviously is portable but not very comfortable to use. The o2 is the most uncomfortable to use outside. 

I was wondering if i can get the same sound level quality of my muses but in a portable pack for a reasonable price. If the sound quality is even better, I swear I'm not going to complain.

Budget ?! well around $500us. I'm just curious to see if one of the ifi products it's good enough for me. I'm going to trust all you're ears. 

Most of my music is flac + some mp3 and some mp4a bought from iTunes. I'm looking forward to buy more hi res music in order to get the best quality level. I'm doing everything step by step building my chain brick by brick.

Hope there's enough information here


----------



## Taggerung

technobear said:


> Guess it depends whether or not you need a DAC (as the iDSD has one and the iCAN doesn't).
> 
> If you do need a DAC, do you need it to be portable? The iDSD has a battery.
> 
> ...


 
 Can the iDAC2 be powered by a smartphone?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

taggerung said:


> Can the iDAC2 be powered by a smartphone?


 
 Yep. But it requires a plethora of cables and hubs and battery. 


grig said:


> For my desktop use I'm happy with my muses edition (dac/amp)
> 
> I was looking to buy something better than fiio x1 (dac is decent the amp is the big issue) which i use with my o2. The pack obviously is portable but not very comfortable to use. The o2 is the most uncomfortable to use outside.
> 
> ...


  

  
 From your needs I think you'd best go with a iDSD Micro or Chord Mojo. The Fiio you have is no where near (in terms of SQ), and the other stuffs you've listed are not quite mobile-friendly either: the iCAN SE is a desktop amp (no battery) and the iTube is strictly tube buffer, it can't even drive anything on its own.


----------



## technobear

The FiiO X1 has no digital out but it has a line out so you can't use a DAC but you can add an amp.

The iFi Audio nano iCAN would be suitable.

FiiO make several battery powered amps.

For a DAC/amp to use with a smartphone, I would look at the Audioquest Dragonfly Black or Dragonfly Red.

The micro iDSD is aimed at the smartphone user and sounds great but it is a bulky solution. Of course the smartphone must be able to do USB OTG and play audio that way. With a recent iPhone it should be plug and play. There is a long thread somewhere here on Head-Fi about Android phones and USB DACs.


----------



## grig

williamleonhart said:


> Yep. But it requires a plethora of cables and hubs and battery.
> 
> From your needs I think you'd best go with a iDSD Micro or Chord Mojo. The Fiio you have is no where near (in terms of SQ), and the other stuffs you've listed are not quite mobile-friendly either: the iCAN SE is a desktop amp (no battery) and the iTube is strictly tube buffer, it can't even drive anything on its own.




I know my fiio x1 is to far away but we can't pretend to much for such a cheap product. Chord mojo is definitely a good one but i read on this 3d that the amp section is not good as the micro. Instead if I understood properly the dac section is better. I thought that all the ifi micro stuff are battery powered, my bad ...


----------



## grig

technobear said:


> The FiiO X1 has no digital out but it has a line out so you can't use a DAC but you can add an amp.
> 
> The iFi Audio nano iCAN would be suitable.
> 
> ...




How is the o2 compared with the iCAN?! Time ago i was looking for a fiio amp but a lot of people suggested the O2 instead, that's why I bought this one. I understand that probably is frustrating receive question like mine ( how is this compared to this one, everyone is doing the same) but i ask trying to understand the difference between them, coz unfortunately for me I can't hear by myself.

Actually I have an iPhone, do you think a dragonfly will be better than my fiio ?! I'm not really a fan of using cell phones as a player, but is definitely an option...


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

If you're looking for a mobile All-in-One solution I think the iDSD Micro is better than almost all competitors. If you don't mind something that's still portable but A LOT MORE CUMBERSOME, go for the m9XX. If you just need the most mobile (but still of good quality) product in that price range, go for the Mojo. I'm pretty sure you wont' get disappointed with any of these 3.
  
 In terms of sheer power, the iCAN blows the O2 out of the water. This depends on the version, but I think most generally O2 can't drive high-impedance or low efficiency headphones too well.


----------



## grig

williamleonhart said:


> If you're looking for a mobile All-in-One solution I think the iDSD Micro is better than almost all competitors. If you don't mind something that's still portable but A LOT MORE CUMBERSOME, go for the m9XX. If you just need the most mobile (but still of good quality) product in that price range, go for the Mojo. I'm pretty sure you wont' get disappointed with any of these 3.
> 
> In terms of sheer power, the iCAN blows the O2 out of the water. This depends on the version, but I think most generally O2 can't drive high-impedance or low efficiency headphones too well.




M9xx is not battery powered which mean I would have to add a battery, right ?! In these case I guess The final competitors are the iDSD and the Mojo.

When i paired the xonar essence stu and the O2 with the Hd650 what i can say the O2 was having such a bad time. The O2 couldn't drive properly the hd650, but is also true that this can is pretty hard to drive properly..


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

grig said:


> M9xx is not battery powered which mean I would have to add a battery, right ?! In these case I guess The final competitors are the iDSD and the Mojo.
> 
> When i paired the xonar essence stu and the O2 with the Hd650 what i can say the O2 was having such a bad time. The O2 couldn't drive properly the hd650, but is also true that this can is pretty hard to drive properly..


 
 Nah, m9xx IS battery-powered. But it's a somewhat complicated product require you to do dig through the manual before listening. I remember some guy from the m9xx did not know about the battery mode at first and complained that the m9xx drew power from his Glaxy smartphone like crazy.
  
 Both the m9xx and the iDSD should have no problem driving the hd650 (and the HD600, hd580 and hd540, which I've all tried).


----------



## grig

williamleonhart said:


> Nah, m9xx IS battery-powered. But it's a somewhat complicated product require you to do dig through the manual before listening. I remember some guy from the m9xx did not know about the battery mode at first and complained that the m9xx drew power from his Glaxy smartphone like crazy.
> 
> Both the m9xx and the iDSD should have no problem driving the hd650 (and the HD600, hd580 and hd540, which I've all tried).




Well if can drive properly the hd650 won't have any problem driving the hd 700, how i said before I'm not ready yet to buy a new can. First i want to try the hd700, i have already tested the hd 650. Wonderful pairing between my muses and hd 650, the sound was simply amazing. Well I guess is pretty much all, thank you very much, thank you @technobear I really appreciate all you're help


----------



## Musicans2

Found answer searching thread!


----------



## proedros

i have the sony zx2 dap (no volume cap) and i am very happy with it
  
 would idsd micro provide an adequate sonic improvement ?


----------



## howdy

proedros said:


> i have the sony zx2 dap (no volume cap) and i am very happy with it
> 
> would idsd micro provide an adequate sonic improvement ?



That all depends on you. You're gonna have to buy one and find out. I think this and the Mojo are the Best AMP/DACs (portable) that there are right now IMO. I have a slight preference for this over the Mojo though.


----------



## Duncan

But, in a word, unless you're totally hooked on the Sony house sound, an improvement WILL be heard. 

Despite all of the talk from Sony about the magical caps and everything else, the headphone out still isn't that great in the grand scheme of things. 

That being said, if you love it, then more power to you


----------



## jincuteguy

howdy said:


> That all depends on you. You're gonna have to buy one and find out. I think this and the Mojo are the Best AMP/DACs (portable) that there are right now IMO. I have a slight preference for this over the Mojo though.


 
 This as in the iFi Micro iDSD?


----------



## proedros

idsd looks good but i am only using CIEMs which zx2 drived them sufficiently, so not sure if i need any extra juice


----------



## Duncan

It isn't about power, it's about refinement


----------



## howdy

jincuteguy said:


> This as in the iFi Micro iDSD?



Yep


----------



## willywill

proedros said:


> idsd looks good but i am only using CIEMs which zx2 drived them sufficiently, so not sure if i need any extra juice


 
 I have the ZX2, iDSD and PHA3, for IEM the ZX2 is already good save your money and keep building your music collection.


----------



## Whitigir

willywill said:


> I have the ZX2, iDSD and PHA3, for IEM the ZX2 is already good save your money and keep building your music collection.




Agreed, Zx2 is already too good driving CIEMs with TRRS cables, save some money and less stacky rig


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Agreed, Zx2 is already too good driving CIEMs with TRRS cables, save some money and less stacky rig


 
 Yes, for most IEMs the ZX2 should be quite capable at driving them well. If I was an IEM user I would have had the ZX2 two years ago! Damn happy with my Micro, really sweet DAC section. I use it mostly with my Kanto active speaker rig in the kitchen and it pairs really well with it.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Honestly if I were to use my DAC as a transport I'd go for something much cheaper. Had a chance to audition the zx2 with my Grados and it sounded really great. If it were me, well I won't buy any dac/amp to pair with the zx2, including even the beloved idsd.


----------



## cbl117

does anyone else have a volume knob that feels kinda notchy around 12 o'clock position?  It almost feels like there is a memory notch similar to balance knobs when you center it.


----------



## technobear

cbl117 said:


> does anyone else have a volume knob that feels kinda notchy around 12 o'clock position?  It almost feels like there is a memory notch similar to balance knobs when you center it.




The knob is pushed too far onto its spindle. Just pull it out a tiny bit.


----------



## technobear

As to the ZX2 discussion, I wouldn't add a DAC/amp to it.

If you want a cheap portable transport for the iDSD, look at the Sony A10 or A20 series. They do OTG.


----------



## proedros

thanx to all you guys who chipped in on the zx2/idsd question

 you rock


----------



## CFGamescape

I'm just messing around here but since I sold my Lyr 2 and Bifrost MB from my home system, I brought some cables and accessories over to work to my iFi setup.

I've got a Nordost Blue Heaven USB cable > nano iUSB3.0 > Gemini cable > iPurifier 2 (USB A) > custom Elijiah Audio USB > iDSD > Oyaide Across 750 RR V2 RCA interconnects > iCAN SE. 

Not pictured is my Elecom IEMs. I'm waiting for a new WyWires RED cable for my Ether C.

I'll probably end up selling my nano iUSB and Gemini but this chain is pretty insane for work. All my colleagues are like What is that! LOL.


----------



## Sonic Defender

^ Did you prefer the iFi gear over the Schiit gear?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

cfgamescape said:


> I'm just messing around here but since I sold my Lyr 2 and Bifrost MB from my home system, I brought some cables and accessories over to work to my iFi setup.
> 
> I've got a Nordost Blue Heaven USB cable > *nano iUSB3.0* > Gemini cable >* iPurifier 2* (USB A) > custom Elijiah Audio USB > iDSD > Oyaide Across 750 RR V2 RCA interconnects > iCAN SE.
> 
> ...


 
 AFAIK, the nano iusb3 has all the functionality of the ipurifier2.


----------



## CFGamescape

williamleonhart said:


> AFAIK, the nano iusb3 has all the functionality of the ipurifier2.




Yup, like I said, just messing around. I will listen to this for a little bit to see if there is any difference despite what iFi says, but my ears are not blessed like many here. Like, I can't, off the bat, tell the difference between using only the iP2 vs using only the iUSB (with Gemini).



sonic defender said:


> ^ Did you prefer the iFi gear over the Schiit gear?




I do. Better bang for the money, more versatile, very close in sound quality. Bass is better with the iFi setup, mostly because of the iCAN SE's bass boost. I hated tube rolling with the Lyr 2. Always felt like I was missing out on something by not trying new tubes.


----------



## cbl117

Deleted...


----------



## subwoof3r

theattorney said:


> The Eco mode has more than enough power in terms of maximum volume, *but Normal mode brings out better punch and dynamics at the same volume.*
> 
> Continuing with the HD600's, *I didn't find the Turbo gave any SQ advantage over Normal*, so Normal it is for me and the battery still lasts for ages in this mode.


 
 I noted the exact same here also.
 Normal and volume spot to 10'o'clock is the perfect match with my HD800.
 I quickly gave up with Eco mode (even if volume control was more refined..).


----------



## subwoof3r

gr8soundz said:


> Think I might change back to the version B firmware so it only pulls power when off. That should force it to run from battery only when on.


 
 Very interesting,
 so if I understand well, flashing B firmware, disconnect usb from computer, turn on iDSD and then connect to pc, will force the iDSD to run in battery mode and if turning off iDSD, it will charge it and next time I will turn on iDSD it will run again on battery mode ?
 is that the right steps ?
 Cheers'


----------



## cbl117

subwoof3r said:


> I noted the exact same here also.
> Normal and volume spot to 10'o'clock is the perfect match with my HD800.
> I quickly gave up with Eco mode (even if volume control was more refined..).




Have you guys messed with normal mode and IEmatch at high sensitivity (middle position). I found that with those settings I can get between 12oclock and 3oclock volume position with my HD650s.


----------



## gr8soundz

subwoof3r said:


> Very interesting,
> so if I understand well, flashing B firmware, disconnect usb from computer, turn on iDSD and then connect to pc, will force the iDSD to run in battery mode and if turning off iDSD, it will charge it and next time I will turn on iDSD it will run again on battery mode ?
> is that the right steps ?
> Cheers'


 
  
 You don't need version B for battery power. Turning the Micro on before connecting the cable will always run it on the battery.
  
 The B firmware was designed by iFi to stop the Micro from draining the battery of whatever cell/tablet/transport it was connected to.
  
 My thinking was to try and force battery mode without having to remove the cable each time. I wanted to save wear n tear on the connections but I don't think it work exactly as I'd hoped so I switched back to the regular firmware version.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Any akg k7xx user around here? The effect of xbass on mine is extremely, extremely subtle.


----------



## technobear

subwoof3r said:


> gr8soundz said:
> 
> 
> > Think I might change back to the version B firmware so it only pulls power when off. That should force it to run from battery only when on.
> ...




The 'B' version of the firmware is for use with a SmartPhone. It prevents sleep mode.

If you want to run in battery mode with a PC, you need the regular firmware.

1) Disconnect iDSD.

2) Turn on iDSD.

3) The iDSD is now in battery mode.

4) Connect iDSD.

5) Play music.

6) Stop music.

7) After a minute or two, the iDSD enters sleep mode (green flashing LED). In this mode the iDSD will recharge to about 80% so long as USB power is available.

There is no need to turn the iDSD off so long as USB power is available for long enough to recharge it. Many PCs keep the USB ports live while sleeping. On some laptops there is a permanently powered port. On others like my Aspire V11, the USB ports are powered during sleep if the lid is open and off if the lid is closed.

If you turn the iDSD off and then on again while connected to a live USB port, it will be in USB power mode.


----------



## cav1sa

williamleonhart said:


> Any akg k7xx user around here? The effect of xbass on mine is extremely, extremely subtle.


 
 I don't have those, but on the equipment I do have the effect is indeed subtle. It definitely adds some bass, but not a whole lot. From what I hear and have read, it's a nice bump in the sub region. I can hear it well on LCD2, monitors, even on my CIEMS. I suspect the k7xx just don't extend low enough.
 I wouldn't worry too much about it though, I'm sure your AKGs are waaaaaay lighter than my audezes. There's always trade-offs in life


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks for the answer. I've do a search of this thread and a lot of people also complains that xBass on this unit does next to nothing...


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for the answer. I've do a search of this thread and a lot of people also complains that xBass on this unit does next to nothing...


 
 I didn't hear any effect with a TH 600 so from my experience it is not audible, or so subtle that I missed it which means practically speaking it is not useful.


----------



## sjwaudio

Can anyone recommend a good carrying case for the iDSD Micro please?
 I'd be interested in something that could carry both the Micro itself and several cables.
 Thank you.


----------



## rickyleelee

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for the answer. I've do a search of this thread and a lot of people also complains that xBass on this unit does next to nothing...




I have momentums and it doesn't do much. but when I listen to better headphones that cost more $ it does improve the lower regions. Hope helps


----------



## Sonic Defender

sjwaudio said:


> Can anyone recommend a good carrying case for the iDSD Micro please?
> I'd be interested in something that could carry both the Micro itself and several cables.
> Thank you.


 
 Look for online luggage stores. I'm sure they will have small carry on hand bags. Just a thought.


----------



## Musicans2

Does anybody have the problem of the driver in windows 10 not working for the ifi idsd. I just got the latest update and now it says that the driver is not digitally signed?????? no ifi no music!


----------



## Musicans2

Never mind i fixed it by pressing shift and restart and then #7 and reinstalled driver. not digitally signed. and it works now with latest windows 10 update.


----------



## CFGamescape

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for the answer. I've do a search of this thread and a lot of people also complains that xBass on this unit does next to nothing...


 
 It depends on what you're listening to. Like others have mentioned, it mostly affects sub bass. The XBass on the iCAN SE has a much more profound effect.


----------



## number34

HELP! I'm absolutely loving the iDSD Micro I got a week ago. Today it started cutting out with the Filter set to standard (using digital coaxial from an X3) -- as in plays a half second of music then cuts off and this repeats every second.
  
 I moved it to Minimum phase and it still cut off. Bit perfect worked fine. Then I moved it back to minimum phase and same problem, a quick pattern of music and cutting off. Then I moved it all the way back to standard and NOTHING... just very silent rhythmic ticks.
  
 I turned the iDSD off and back on but no change. I unplugged my X3 from the iFi while on Standard, I heard 5 seconds of music this time but then it went right back to cutting out. Slight change in that it's less of a pattern, I might hear 3 seconds of music - cuts out - 1 second - cuts out - 5 seconds of music, etc.
  
 Any thoughts? Thanks folks!


----------



## jincuteguy

technobear said:


> The 'B' version of the firmware is for use with a SmartPhone. It prevents sleep mode.
> 
> If you want to run in battery mode with a PC, you need the regular firmware.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So with the regular firmware, can I just hook up the iDSD to my PC and don't have to worry about battery?


----------



## Musicans2

Finally got the iDSD micro working with the iTUBE micro and the iUSB3.0 with the gemini cable. Had to revert back to the 2.23 driver otherwise no go. The sound of all music is PRISTINE! Tried RCA to XLR.....yes makes a difference but drops in Volume by 3 to 6 db. Does anyone have a solution??/ i already am using the ART Clean Box PRO to equalize it and wanted to simplify ifi chain.
  
 1.I want IFI AUDIO to stop beating around the bush and make a gemini cable that works directly with the ifi iDSD!
 2.I want IFI AUDIO to make a nice expensive unbalanced to balanced line level converter rca to xlr that will be able to raise the db a little to match it to other switches and devices!
  
 Yes i will still buy the ifi IDSD Pro when it comes out for another room but enough already with the missing details IFI.


----------



## CFGamescape

number34 said:


> HELP! I'm absolutely loving the iDSD Micro I got a week ago. Today it started cutting out with the Filter set to standard (using digital coaxial from an X3) -- as in plays a half second of music then cuts off and this repeats every second.
> 
> I moved it to Minimum phase and it still cut off. Bit perfect worked fine. Then I moved it back to minimum phase and same problem, a quick pattern of music and cutting off. Then I moved it all the way back to standard and NOTHING... just very silent rhythmic ticks.
> 
> ...


 
 Is there a red light blinking? What you're describing is typical of when the unit is low on battery.


----------



## number34

Hello, it was acting up on a nearly full battery. The unit was plugged in all night and started cutting out this morning. 
  
 I have had that issue happen with a low battery but not the case this time, also on low battery it'll cuts out regardless of filter. This time it was totally fine on bit-perfect. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## number34

Opened a ticket with iFi. Maybe everything is related because now Eco is running much more quietly than I remember and I have definite L/R channel db imbalances at lower volumes. Their service seems top-notch so I'll report back soon.


----------



## gr8soundz

musicans2 said:


> Finally got the iDSD micro working with the iTUBE micro and the iUSB3.0 with the gemini cable. Had to revert back to the 2.23 driver otherwise no go. The sound of all music is PRISTINE! Tried RCA to XLR.....yes makes a difference but drops in Volume by 3 to 6 db. Does anyone have a solution??/ i already am using the ART Clean Box PRO to equalize it and wanted to simplify ifi chain.
> 
> 1.I want IFI AUDIO to stop beating around the bush and make a gemini cable that works directly with the ifi iDSD!
> 2.I want IFI AUDIO to make a nice expensive unbalanced to balanced line level converter rca to xlr that will be able to raise the db a little to match it to other switches and devices!
> ...


 
  
 Ifi isn't going to make another cable just for *one* device (*all* their other devices have type B female usb inputs). You can try the Type A iPurifier 2 and connect it direct to the Micro and the Gemini cable to the other end. It improves the sound even more and no longer have to use the cheap plastic adapter.
 http://www.musicdirect.com/p-364758-ifi-ipurifier-2-inline-usb-audio-conditioner.aspx
 (Type B is pictured but Type A is in stock from the drop down)
  
 Why should iFi make a line level converter when several others already exist ? I use preamp out from the rcas and set the power output to normal (eco mode is 6db lower IIRC). The iDSD Pro won't need any such adjustments but I still think its amazing that the Micro is so capable for it's size and price.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

The type A - type B adapter included with the iDSD is actually good at one aspect: it doesn't leave my iPurifier2 in the middle of nowhere like when I plug the iP2 into the iDAC2. And so far I'm liking the sound very much. People say I should sell it to upgrade to desktop DAC but I think I'm keeping it (forever), at least as my end-game mobile amp/DAC. I like this sound sig much more than Mojo's, which I think is in the middle between the m9xx and iDSD. Sure it's more cumbersome than I'd like but as I have a messenger bag it's no problem carrying my iDSD around.


----------



## Musicans2

Just ordered the type A ipurifier2! its overkill but at least it will look nice with the 15%off. They should make a line converter to blow all the other ones on the market out of the water. I think IFI is onto something and they can ride a HUGE wave into the future! They should also make a monitor switch too! Thanks for the info on the ipurifier2! Enjoying awesome sound headphones and speakers!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

williamleonhart said:


> The type A - type B adapter included with the iDSD is actually good at one aspect: it doesn't leave my iPurifier2 in the middle of nowhere like when I plug the iP2 into the iDAC2. And so far I'm liking the sound very much. People say I should sell it to upgrade to desktop DAC but I think I'm keeping it (forever), at least as my end-game mobile amp/DAC. I like this sound sig much more than Mojo's, which I think is in the middle between the m9xx and iDSD. Sure it's more cumbersome than I'd like but as I have a messenger bag it's no problem carrying my iDSD around.


 

  
 Yeah, it's worth the extra 2 inches


----------



## CFGamescape

williamleonhart said:


> The type A - type B adapter included with the iDSD is actually good at one aspect: it doesn't leave my iPurifier2 in the middle of nowhere like when I plug the iP2 into the iDAC2.


 
 Unless you're using RCA cables that have terminations too big that disallow fitting the iP2 directly into the USB input (see pic below). It's not that the RCA terminations are too big, it's that the iFi interface is too confined; wish they spaced it out just a couple millimeters more. The USB cable is a custom Elijah female A to male A dual (not split) cable, but I'm replacing it with a shorter one from Forza Audioworks (@Matez) that's female A to female B (so I can use my iP2 USB B rather than A; I have both).
  

  
 You'd be surprised how hard it is to find a high-quality replacement for the iFi-provided adapter cable. I'll post a picture when I receive the new one from Forza Audioworks.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

The Forza sounds interesting. Please give me a photo soon. Though I don't think it hurts I don't like the A-to-B adapter very much.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

hawaiibadboy said:


> Yeah, it's worth the extra 2 inches


 
 I may have asked this once but where did you get that handsome leather cover for the iDSD?


----------



## Taggerung

williamleonhart said:


> I may have asked this once but where did you get that handsome leather cover for the iDSD?


 
 I believe he made it out of a jacket.


----------



## AutumnCrown

Can anyone compare the idsd micro by itself vs with the iCan amp? Does the iCan just add warmth, or more detail and transparency as well?


----------



## technobear

autumncrown said:


> Can anyone compare the idsd micro by itself vs with the iCan amp? Does the iCan just add warmth, or more detail and transparency as well?




More of everything!

The first thing you'll notice is it's a little less bright but also smoother and cleaner. 

The XBASS, 3D and Crossfeed settings are more useful too.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

autumncrown said:


> Can anyone compare the idsd micro by itself vs with the iCan amp? Does the iCan just add warmth, or more detail and transparency as well?


 
 While the idsd micro is powerful for every headphones I've had, I think that's all it does. Drive the headphone and nothing more. xBass is next to nothing. 3D effect is annoying. The iCan SE, on the other hand, like my friend says: "Even my nostrils can feel the bass". I have not tried the original iCan though. 
  
  
 Quote:


taggerung said:


> I believe he made it out of a jacket.


 
 Thanks for the answer.
  
  


technobear said:


> More of everything!
> 
> The first thing you'll notice is it's a little less bright but also smoother and cleaner.
> 
> The XBASS, *3D *and *Crossfeed *settings are more useful too.


 
 I thought on the iDSD, 3D = Crossfeed???


----------



## aCuria

gr8soundz said:


> Seems you've done quite a bit of troubleshooting already but, if you feel your iDSD is defective, you will need to confirm that the same thing happens (at least in Foobar with the same settings) when using the latest usb driver and firmware (ver 2.23 and firmware 5.0).
> 
> If you're unable to install the latest driver and firmware then you'll definitely need to use another computer. If you can duplicate the issues there, then (imo) I'd recommend sending it back for replacement or warranty fix (whichever applies).
> 
> Other then that, kinda hard to fully fault iFi at this point when you're running both older drivers AND older firmware.





I had the same issue as this guy... Except with the latest firmware from ifi. No solution after lots of back and forth with their customer support too sadly, the distributor couldn't reproduce the issue I'm not sure what the problem is but my cheepo creative DAC / HGC don't have the same issue.


----------



## gr8soundz

On sale for $379
 http://www.adorama.com/ifidsdmicro.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


----------



## harpo1

gr8soundz said:


> On sale for $379
> http://www.adorama.com/ifidsdmicro.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


 
 This or the iCan SE for $249.


----------



## chillaxing

gr8soundz said:


> On sale for $379
> http://www.adorama.com/ifidsdmicro.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


 
  
 Great deal
  
 Broken link
  


harpo1 said:


> This or the iCan SE for $249.


 
  
 If you already have a DAC then iCan, if not, iDSD


----------



## harpo1

chillaxing said:


> Great deal
> 
> Broken link
> 
> ...


 
 That was my thinking as well.  Just read a few are having problems with the ipower.  Not sure how widespread it is.


----------



## chillaxing

hawaiibadboy said:


> Yeah, it's worth the extra 2 inches


 
  
  
 Wait, Wait.... Can I?
  
 "Thats what she said..."
   
  
 Quote:


harpo1 said:


> That was my thinking as well.  Just read a few are having problems with the ipower.  Not sure how widespread it is.


 
  
  
 I loved the original iCan, if I wasn't a minimalist and already have a receiver on my desktop, i'd probably have the SE too.
  
 Well if your worried about that, I think iFi wouldn't have a problem with warranty if it does occur


----------



## harpo1

chillaxing said:


> Wait, Wait.... Can I?
> 
> "Thats what she said..."
> 
> ...


 
 I know, I just read some of them are on their third ones.  I already have a couple amps just none with bass boost which helps on a couple of my headphones.  At $249 it's pretty much a no brainer.


----------



## cbl117

gr8soundz said:


> On sale for $379
> http://www.adorama.com/ifidsdmicro.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


 

 There's really good deals for Hifiman and ifi bundles too.
  
 HE-560 and iDSD for 899:
 http://www.adorama.com/hmhe560a.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905
  
 HE-400i and iCAN SE for 499:
 http://www.adorama.com/hmhe400ia.html?emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905
  
 If the links don't work above, you can go directly to the slickdeals website here:
 http://slickdeals.net/f/8875527-hifiman-he560-micro-idsd-900-he400i-micro-ican-se-amp-500-free-s-h?src=spc_g_desktop_dd


----------



## gr8soundz

chillaxing said:


> Great deal
> 
> Broken link


 
  
 Just retested the link (in Chrome); still works. Searching for the iFi stuff on their site brings up the regular prices.
  


harpo1 said:


> That was my thinking as well.  Just read a few are having problems with the ipower.  Not sure how widespread it is.


 
  
 My 12V iPower died after 3 months but the 9V one that came with my iTube is ok.


----------



## chillaxing

gr8soundz said:


> Just retested the link (in Chrome); still works. Searching for the iFi stuff on their site brings up the regular prices.
> 
> 
> My 12V iPower died after 3 months but the 9V one that came with my iTube is ok.


 
  
  
 Just tried again, not working.  I'm also on chrome


----------



## gr8soundz

Here's the link from slickdeals (maybe this will work):
  
 http://slickdeals.net/?pno=206959&lno=1&trd=iFi%2BMicro%2BiDSD%2BPortable%2BHeadphon&afsrc=1&mon=1&ref=1


----------



## cbl117

I originally posted this in a Lyr 2 thread, but wanted to share here  becuase it bodes very well for the iDSD.
  
 I have some iDSD/HD650 impressions and a comparison between Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X
  
 iDSD/650:
 I found the iDSD slightly bright and hard sounding fresh out of the box, but that perception went away over ~50 hours and I feel the iDSD sounds about neutral.  The iDSD drives the 650s nicely with plenty of power to spare.  I have the volume at 11-12 o'clock at normal power mode (middle position).  The iDSD/650 pairing is neutral, slightly lean sounding (analytical), and has a nice sense of air/separation.  Sound stage is good width-wise, but slightly less good depth-wise.  The vocals/image are missing that last bit of focus though.  I used Amber Rubarth Sessions from the 17th Ward to check soundstage.
  
 Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X:
 It was interesting to find the bimby/lyr 2/LCD-X combo as being more veiled sounding compared to the iDSD/650, IMO.  The presentation was a little further back with slightly warmer tonality.  This combo did not have the same sense of air that the iDSD/650 had and the soundstage was a little more "in your head".    The resolving power is definitely greater in this setup, and vocals/image had more focus.
  
 This realization has me a little perplexed as I thought the bimby/Lyr 2/LCD-X would just blow the iDSD/650 out of the water.  So I'm trying to decide if I'm rather impressed with the iDSD/650 or slightly disappointed with the Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X.  One thing I'll take away from this is I tend to like the leaner/analytical sound signature rather than warm/thick/lush sound signature that I feel the Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X tends to have IMO.
  
 In addition to above, I ended up doing some blind testing with my wife who has ultra sensitive sensory lol.
  
 Test setup was the following:
 HD650 ----> iDSD....OR....Lyr2/Bimby
 LCD-X-----> iDSD....OR.....Lyr2/Bimby
  
*For each of the two headphones:  We both were not able to correctly guess which amp/dac combo was being used with any statistical relevance.*
  
 Footnotes:
 Lyr 2 is running 60's Amperex Bugle Boys 6DJ8 and LCD-X has Charleston Cable UP-OCC cable.  I did the comparison using two separate macs running Audirvana Plus with USB out to each setup.  Files are identical between the two sources.


----------



## theveterans

IMO, It might be just the nature of LCD-X having a smaller soundstage than say AKG K700 series or Senn HD 800/s. IMO, if you have done extensive research, you'll realize that Bimby is the warmest sounding multibit DAC in Schiit's line up. IMO, if you want the neutrality of iDSD with the "natural" sound of bimby, try Gungnir Multibit.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

cbl117 said:


> I originally posted this in a Lyr 2 thread, but wanted to share here  becuase it bodes very well for the iDSD.
> 
> I have some iDSD/HD650 impressions and a comparison between Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X


 
 Wouldn't be surprised here. The Bimby is too warm and not as neutral as what I'd like. For me the iDSD has the right amount of "neutral-ness" for HD650 (and HD600, HD580, HD540 etc.), it's bright and crisps just enough to put the Sennheiser lush, musical sound in its place. 
  
 If it's possible, please try combining the iDSD Micro with the Lyr 2 and HD650 as well. I think the sound will be softened a bit but not by much.
  
 (I never got a chance to seriously audition a tube-rolled Lyr 2. I don't even remember which tubes were on the Lyr2's I tried, but I don't think the Lyr2 display the same level of "tubey-ness" as on other OTL amps.)


----------



## cbl117

theveterans said:


> IMO, It might be just the nature of LCD-X having a smaller soundstage than say AKG K700 series or Senn HD 800/s. IMO, if you have done extensive research, you'll realize that Bimby is the warmest sounding multibit DAC in Schiit's line up. IMO, if you want the neutrality of iDSD with the "natural" sound of bimby, try Gungnir Multibit.


 

 I've heard on the fourms that the bimby is warm but never really confirmed it until doing this comparison.  It has me thinking about selling the lyr2/bimby and getting gungnir/mjolnir2.


----------



## theveterans

> I've heard on the fourms that the bimby is warm but never really confirmed it until doing this comparison.  It has me thinking about selling the lyr2/bimby and getting gungnir/mjolnir2.


 
  
 Your LCD-X's will thank you for that. My Bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2 however is tailored for my AKG K712 headphones. That setup tames the AKG's harshness big time!
  
 Let us know how the Gungnir Multibit / MJ 2 setup compares to the iDSD.


----------



## cbl117

theveterans said:


> Your LCD-X's will thank you for that. My Bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2 however is tailored for my AKG K712 headphones. That setup tames the AKG's harshness big time!


 

 Do you think its worth rolling in a pair of NOS telefunken 6922 to try and lift the veil, before going to the extreme of rolling actual gear?


----------



## theveterans

Can't help with that as I've never had a hybrid / tube amp unfortunately. Maybe Schiit's LISST tubes?


----------



## Sonic Defender

cbl117 said:


> I've heard on the fourms that the bimby is warm but never really confirmed it until doing this comparison.  It has me thinking about selling the lyr2/bimby and getting gungnir/mjolnir2.


 
 Damn, that is several times the cost of the Micro and not in the slightest portable; however, I suspect it will sound better and I take it portability isn't your concern. I think the fact that the Micro was still able to compete with your current Schiit stack a testament to how good it is, and even more so that smaller footprint, integrated devices don't inherently sound worse simply due to form factor constraints.


----------



## cbl117

sonic defender said:


> Damn, that is several times the cost of the Micro and not in the slightest portable; however, I suspect it will sound better and I take it portability isn't your concern. I think the fact that the Micro was still able to compete with your current Schiit stack a testament to how good it is, and even more so that smaller footprint, integrated devices don't inherently sound worse simply due to form factor constraints.


 

 Correct, portability is not my concern.  I picked up the micro iDSD for a transportable setup that I could easily carry around the house depending where I study.  The schiit stack has a permanent home on my office desk.
  
 Now begins the search for an ultimate desktop setup that can handle LCD-X and HD650, so basically any headphone lol


----------



## theveterans

> Damn, that is several times the cost of the Micro and not in the slightest portable; however, I suspect it will sound better and I take it portability isn't your concern. I think the fact that the Micro was still able to compete with your current Schiit stack a testament to how good it is, and even more so that smaller footprint, integrated devices don't inherently sound worse simply due to form factor constraints.


 
  
 I think he prefers the sound sig of the iDSD, but it is slightly behind the Bimby/Lyr 2's refinement. IMO, he just needs the iFi Micro Amp SE rather than upgrading to a full fledged desktop system to get the sound improvement that he seeks. The iFi micro amp SE should improve iDSD's technicalities to that of the Bimby / Lyr 2 setup


----------



## proedros

are there any *Hidition NT6* users ? how is the idsd synergy with the NT6 , does it improve its (already stellar) sound ?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

williamleonhart said:


> I thought on the iDSD, 3D = Crossfeed???


 
 Can anyone help me clarify this?


----------



## Brooko

williamleonhart said:


> Can anyone help me clarify this?


 
  
 Yes  - its crossfeed


----------



## tf1216

Here's a bit about 3D Holographic Sound from iFi.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/3DHolographic.pdf


----------



## iFi audio

brooko said:


> Yes  - its crossfeed


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Crossfeed pulls the sound in front of the head.
  
 3D Holographic places it outside and around the head.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Brooko

Correct me if I'm wrong - but it is essentially blending information from both channels. You may be using an algorithm to get the right effect - but it is still essentially crossfeed. Correct


----------



## iFi audio

brooko said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong - but it is essentially blending information from both channels. You may be using an algorithm to get the right effect - but it is still essentially crossfeed. Correct


 
  
 Hi,
  
 For obvious reasons, we hope you can forgive us for not being more explicit about what we do. The following is what we can say beyond the pdf.
  
  
  
 The bottom line is that all classic 'crossfeed' systems produce, with well-recorded music with a natural rendering of space, what is best described as 'wide mono,' but crucially with the perception of sound being outside the head and before the head.
  
 While this provides a major relief to individuals that cannot tolerate 'band in my head,'  what it does not do is to deliver a soundstage with Headphones that approaches well setup speakers.
  
 Back in the 1980's the Radio Television Zentralamt (RFZ) or the Ministry of Radio and TV in East Berlin conducted major research into headphone/speaker replay compatibility to allow a single recording to play back via speakers or headphones while retaining good spatially. 
  
 Ultimately the German reunification in 1989 ended this program before completion. However significant progress had been made at that point for matrixes to translate both dummy head recordings to speaker and classical speaker recordings to headphones. The BBC had similar research at the time*.
  
 In both cases it became clear that existing systems (aka Bauer crossfeed and its variants) were grossly inadequate. 
  
 What we at AMR / iFi call 3D Holographic Sound is based on this research and further refined, as well as extended to include speaker based systems.
  
 While controlled and shaped feeding of spatial information between channels forms the core of the AMR / iFi 3D Holographic Sound system, compared to Bauer crossfeed and its descendents, be it Linkwitz, Headroom or Maier or recent digital implementations by a number of vendors (one which even stole our 3D label), the way and algorithms it is executed to differ quite radically. 
  
 So we prefer to leave the common 'crossfeed' designation strictly to Bauer crossfeed and derivatives and to use '3D Holographic' for our rather radically different approach. And of course we have 3D for Headphones and 3D for Speakers (nope, for Speakers is also not crossfeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
  
* Not quite Enigma but very interesting and 'underground' to say the least!


----------



## Brooko

Thanks for the explanation - and yep I'm pretty aware that there is more going on there than simple L/R crossfeed - there had to be advanced algorithms in there to achieve what you're doing.  Don't get me wrong - I love my unit, and I in no way want to diminish what you've done with the iDSD (it has become the heart of my desktop system).
  
 When I answered the poster who asked was it crossfeed, your answer essentially (reading between the lines) said no it wasn't.  I just wanted to clarify that it IS crossfeed at work - just a very advanced form of it.
  
 Again, thanks for the further clarification.


----------



## sandalaudio

Thanks for the insightful information about the 3D holographic sound.
  
 One thing I do notice is that, compared to the typical "crossfeed" functions I've used on many other headphone amps (Grace, SPL,  Simaudio, etc), I find the iFi's implementation unique and interesting, because it is extremely noticeable on crappy recordings, while it does not mess up the recordings that already have good spatial presentation to begin with (like modern classical orchestral recordings where the room acoustic is well preserved).
  
 Sometimes I use the 3D holographic switch as a "test" to see if the recording is natural (in which case there is very little difference) or it is artificially over-produced (in which case it causes a very blatant "3D" effect).
  
 I do find that the 3D switch makes the treble a bit pronounced, which is spatially dazzling but a bit unnerving at times.
  
  
 For example, it doesn't work too well for me in some cases, such as on old 1950's and 1960's stereo recordings (e.g. studio jazz recordings), which often has hard panned L/R sources. These music sound great on speakers that have the tweeters facing off axis (like big JBLs and Altecs with no toe-in), but they are quite irritating to listen to on headphones.
  
 A simple L/R crossfeed usually gives this nice mellow "somewhat mono" presentation, but the 3D holographic makes it sound a bit splashy.
  
 I guess they serve different purposes. I always wish that more headphone amps could have a simple "mono" switch to make it easier to listen to old artificial stereo recordings...


----------



## ClieOS

I think it is worth noting that the 3D setting on iDSD only gives you either 3DHS or not - but on iCAN, you also get a more conventionally implemented crossfeed setting (which works better with older, fully pan-out recording), besides 3DHS.


----------



## iFi audio

clieos said:


> I think it is worth noting that the 3D setting on iDSD only gives you either 3DHS or not - but on iCAN, you also get a more conventionally implemented crossfeed setting (which works better with older, fully pan-out recording), besides 3DHS.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Not quite. Please allow us to explain.
  
 3D on RCA = 3D Holographic for Speakers
 3D on 6.3mm = 3D Holographic for Headphones
  
  
 Micro iCAN SE (or original) because it is a headphone amp only, there is only 3D Holographic for Headphones (different levels).
  
 Hope this clarifies.
  
  
 (hence if using micro iDSD via RCAs > external HP amp (eg micro iCAN SE), we recommend to have the 3D switch 'off' because of the aforementioned reason!)
  
 ToC for the micro iDSD features:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-and-the-new-firmware-flavours-are-here-page-138


----------



## vapman

clieos said:


> I think it is worth noting that the 3D setting on iDSD only gives you either 3DHS or not - but on iCAN, you also get a more conventionally implemented crossfeed setting (which works better with older, fully pan-out recording), besides 3DHS.


 

 As an owner of both, i'm 100% in agreement.
  
 3d and bass boost on iDSD are useless.


----------



## Aegruin

vapman said:


> As an owner of both, i'm 100% in agreement.
> 
> 3d and bass boost on iDSD are useless.


 
  
 3D is good for treble shy HPs and IEMs.
 Xbass only increases the low extension a little, which is not enough for... almost.. anything...
  
 But at least they could do some effect to the sound. I want to point out something that called "Polarity". iDSD has a switch called "Polarity" and it doesn't do anything.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

IMO 3D is not useless as at least it makes some changes. 
  
 Xbass is almost always inaudible in every headphone I'd tried. It's like iFi goes "We're gonna give you a taste of this and you should really upgrade to the iCan to see how great it is". Then I go "What taste?".


----------



## vapman

williamleonhart said:


> IMO 3D is not useless as at least it makes some changes.
> 
> Xbass is almost always inaudible in every headphone I'd tried. It's like iFi goes "We're gonna give you a taste of this and you should really upgrade to the iCan to see how great it is". Then I go "What taste?".


 
  
 Not disagreeing it makes some difference.
  
 But 3d on the iDSD vs, say, SBX on the soundblaster, is lie comparing the iDSD bass boost to the C5's.
  
 no comparison


----------



## Sonic Defender

vapman said:


> .
> 
> But 3d on the iDSD vs, say, SBX on the soundblaster, is lie comparing the iDSD bass boost to the C5's.
> 
> no comparison


 
 It is hard to understand what you mean, are you saying the SBX is better than the 3D and that the iDSD bass boost is better than the C5's or are you saying the opposite is true?


----------



## vapman

fu=


sonic defender said:


> It is hard to understand what you mean, are you saying the SBX is better than the 3D and that the iDSD bass boost is better than the C5's or are you saying the opposite is true?


 
  
 Sorry for the confusion.
  
 I think the C5 rings around the iDSD bass boost and the 3D is nowhere near as immersive as SBX.
  
 But SBX bas ts weird always on DSP i dont liek.


----------



## Sonic Defender

vapman said:


> fu=
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the clarification mate! For me, I don't use features like these anyway, but I agree, if iFi is going to include them, they should be more useful or why bother? If I want bass boost, I'll use an EQ, but again that is more something I think the headphone should take care of anyway. I personally don't bother with any 3D or crossfade features as I accept that I am listening to headphones not speakers and I actually can appreciate the different presentation that the Super Stereo effect of headphones provides.
  
 I love the DAC signature of the Micro and the amp section seems pretty darn solid to me. Certainly given the features, solid build quality and overall great sound signature the Micro is an easy to recommend device. I know it has me looking at iFi for additional purchases down the road.


----------



## vapman

sonic defender said:


> Thanks for the clarification mate! For me, I don't use features like these anyway, but I agree, if iFi is going to include them, they should be more useful or why bother?* If I want bass boost, I'll use an EQ, but again that is more something I think the headphone should take care of anyway.* I personally don't bother with any 3D or crossfade features as I accept that I am listening to headphones not speakers and I actually can appreciate the different presentation that the Super Stereo effect of headphones provides.
> 
> I love the DAC signature of the Micro and the amp section seems pretty darn solid to me. Certainly given the features, solid build quality and overall great sound signature the Micro is an easy to recommend device. I know it has me looking at iFi for additional purchases down the road.


 
 I and everyone in the basshead thread would agree with you.
 i usualy switch it on for a bit of extra oomph at times buts its ususally off.
 3d crossfade i have mixed felings about.
 sbx was more clearly noticale even though i dont rec the e5 as an amp.
  
 iDSD micro is great but it sounds very similar to other existing DACs


----------



## Sonic Defender

vapman said:


> iDSD micro is great but it sounds very similar to other existing DACs


 
 Yes, I also find most DACs sound fairly similar moving within the range of warm to bright. Love the iPod 5.5 you are selling, I've had a few of those myself and I can still enjoy the smoother sound signature. I think that was the last generation of iPods with the Wolfson DACs, but I could be wrong.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

vapman said:


> iDSD micro is great but it sounds very similar to other existing DACs


 Please help me name a few


----------



## rickyleelee

williamleonhart said:


> Please help me name a few





I can't agree with burr brown sounding the same as the sabre. why do people come up with these quotes. what are they listening with as I don't hear all dacs sounding the same. my geek pulse had the sabre and I was good but it always sounding to artificial. even the early idac 1 with the sabre had a similar sound. I am glad the burr brown has become the centre digital dac for you guys


----------



## Whitigir

rickyleelee said:


> I can't agree with burr brown sounding the same as the sabre. why do people come up with these quotes. what are they listening with as I don't hear all dacs sounding the same. my geek pulse had the sabre and I was good but it always sounding to artificial. even the early idac 1 with the sabre had a similar sound. I am glad the burr brown has become the centre digital dac for you guys




Burrbrown is not similar to Sabres...no way


----------



## vapman

rickyleelee said:


> I can't agree with burr brown sounding the same as the sabre. why do people come up with these quotes. what are they listening with as I don't hear all dacs sounding the same. my geek pulse had the sabre and I was good but it always sounding to artificial. even the early idac 1 with the sabre had a similar sound. I am glad the burr brown has become the centre digital dac for you guys


 

 I was not saying burr brown sounds like sabre. not even close.
  
 The iDSD micro uses dual burr browns. My point was it is easy ti find a Burr Brown based amp which will sound more or less similar.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Actually I don't think the iDSD follows the trademark BB sound. Even the iDac2 would be more typical of that warm-ish BB sound. But this is the reason I sold the iDac2 to keep the iDSD


----------



## vapman

williamleonhart said:


> Actually I don't think the iDSD follows the trademark BB sound. Even the iDac2 would be more typical of that warm-ish BB sound. But this is the reason I sold the iDac2 to keep the iDSD


 

 I have been wanting to hear the iDac2.
  
 But i agree. It's not the trademark BB sound. The trademark BB sound is the redbook TI branded stuff. The iDSD used Burr Browns in parallel.
  
 I'm an akm4396 fan, what can i say.


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> Actually I don't think the iDSD follows the trademark BB sound. Even the iDac2 would be more typical of that warm-ish BB sound. But this is the reason I sold the iDac2 to keep the iDSD


 
 I agree, now I don't really hear the Micro as warm either.


----------



## rickyleelee

vapman said:


> I was not saying burr brown sounds like sabre. not even close.
> 
> The iDSD micro uses dual burr browns. My point was it is easy ti find a Burr Brown based amp which will sound more or less similar.




you mean burr brown dac or burr brown amp? they are totally diff man.


----------



## vapman

rickyleelee said:


> you mean burr brown dac or burr brown amp? they are totally diff man.


 

 meant to say dac but typed amp instead. sorry


----------



## RedJohn456

Oh man look what just showed up in my mail box, this is gonna get cray cray!!

 



 iFi Audio Micro iDSD + iPurifier2 and Gemini USB cables! Can't wait to test these bad boys out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 

I gotta say, I am surprised by how many cables and accessories it comes with. Refreshing to see everything being included in the box after seeing minimal accessories from the likes of Concero HP and Chord Mojo.


----------



## waynes world

redjohn456 said:


> Oh man look what just showed up in my mail box, this is gonna get cray cray!!
> 
> iFi Audio Micro iDSD + iPurifier2 and Gemini USB cables! Can't wait to test these bad boys out
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome! Really looking forward to your impressions (I've been quasi-lusting over the iDSD for a long time!).


----------



## jgwtriode

No specific reply here....just some things to point out!   Bought my IDSD micro used.  I can tell you it really improves with a W4S recovery reclocker in front of it. If you want that difference again or more than get Fidelizer software for your windows PC. That same difference again...run at least a Paul Pang V2 PCI-e usb card with dedicated linear power supply and while your at it upgrade the W4S to an equivalent quality linear power supply.  I built my own USB cables using neotech 7N OCC silver gold wire...seperated out the Data and power runs from each other.  Same way out of the W4S.   In the next couple weeks my IDSD is off to Igor Kunetzsoff of K Works Audio to take this thing way beyond a Chord Hugo and a lot of other pricier DACs.  You can look up his DSD nano mod on here if you like.  I run the IDSD into the latest Neco Soundlabs V5 current feedback portable.  An astonishing amplifier and it all drives my Paradox Slants.   The IDSD is ridiculous technology for the money and with a few improvements in front of it and some mods...well lets say I suspect it will hold its own with some of the very serious stuff that is bandied about on this
 site for a much more reasonable amount!  MY TWO CENTS!
  
 Happy Listening,
  
 jgwtriode


----------



## Sonic Defender

Didn't think people could hear the difference in clocks. Those are some tiny, tiny, tiny, miniscule differences that I know extremely sensitive devices can measure, but when listening to music I will admit I'm extremely skeptical that the brain could possibly detect such things. Not trying to be an ass, but it is healthy that for new members who may read such posts that they consider both sides before rushing out and spending money on such things. I am not saying I know for an absolute fact that such things couldn't make an audible difference, but I would suggest that physics and biology make it pretty unlikely (unless the original clock was very bad).


----------



## jgwtriode

I will assure the differences are not subtle...and are easily heard by even non audiophiles...such as my girlfriend. It may not be worth spending the amounts involved. Between $50 to $200...but the additive effects of these improvements grow on you and make the experience far more enjoyable...start the journey with the recovery reclocker from wyred for sound. It is the most costly at $200. That is where I started. Read Computer Audiophile. Forum on the subject. Be prepared to be stunned! There is a ton of stuff on there about getting the most out of your digital audio...try some of the things suggested!

This hobby is a journey of both music, equipment, and subjective experience. I am very budget conscious and wish I could spend much more than I do. But I have learned these things can be added bit by bit and often are more worthwhile than simply changing your components. The point being is that the DSD micro is far better than you would think and doing a few things to your front end will really let you see and hear that! 

Happy Listening,

Jgwtriode


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Sold my iDSD Micro yesterday. Not that I don't like it, just that I'm wondering when the iDSD2 comes out I'd definitely want one.


----------



## Aegruin

williamleonhart said:


> Sold my iDSD Micro yesterday. Not that I don't like it, just that I'm wondering when the iDSD2 comes out I'd definitely want one.


 
 There will be a iDSD2 soon?


----------



## Sonic Defender

jgwtriode said:


> I will assure the differences are not subtle...and are easily heard by even non audiophiles...such as my girlfriend. It may not be worth spending the amounts involved. Between $50 to $200...but the additive effects of these improvements grow on you and make the experience far more enjoyable...start the journey with the recovery reclocker from wyred for sound. It is the most costly at $200. That is where I started. Read Computer Audiophile. Forum on the subject. Be prepared to be stunned! There is a ton of stuff on there about getting the most out of your digital audio...try some of the things suggested!
> 
> This hobby is a journey of both music, equipment, and subjective experience. I am very budget conscious and wish I could spend much more than I do. But I have learned these things can be added bit by bit and often are more worthwhile than simply changing your components. The point being is that the DSD micro is far better than you would think and doing a few things to your front end will really let you see and hear that!
> 
> ...


 
 My good man, if you are budget conscious, then you owe it to yourself to do some proper blind listening tests just to test assumptions. As hard as it is to accept, what you are describing could (and science would say is) explainable by expectation bias. If you told your girlfriend and her friends ahead of time about how improved you found the sound, they would likely hear what they expected to hear, as you may have. You went into threads, researched, posted, discussed, read the opinions of all of these members who swore that the differences were  real (none of them I'll bet did blind testing) and then you went the distance and spent the money. You waited with excitement for the gear to arrive, then finally it did. Do you think that type of journey creates an expectation of positive sound change? I think it is very plausible that it does.
  
 I actually enjoy the hobby like you, hell I bought an MX-U8 SPDIF converter to try, but I can't hear any difference. I'm not trying to suck the joy out of things for you, believe me I'm not. But if you want to invest in sound changes that our brain can hear try new headphone signatures, those are well vetted changes that even in blind listening tests people can hear differences in signatures so we know the changes are audible. However, as you said, the journey in the hobby is unique for each of us, and perhaps you have no desire to test assumptions, and that is fine, and I mean that. As well, even if the effects are placebo (and I won't say that as absolute fact as I can't do so) it doesn't matter, the effect is real in our subjective brain, so whatever floats your audio boat.
  
 As I said, I mostly post as I did to provide the opposite viewpoint so new members start off with both sides of a story to explore and then make their own mind up about how their journey in the hobby will unfold. As you said mate, happy listening and I apologize if I have offended you as that isn't my intent.


----------



## rickyleelee

I have found that to when my friends look at the ifi gears against other gears that are here and recommended. mostly, all ifi gears have lots of goodies


----------



## jgwtriode

sonic defender said:


> My good man, if you are budget conscious, then you owe it to yourself to do some proper blind listening tests just to test assumptions. As hard as it is to accept, what you are describing could (and science would say is) explainable by expectation bias. If you told your girlfriend and her friends ahead of time about how improved you found the sound, they would likely hear what they expected to hear, as you may have. You went into threads, researched, posted, discussed, read the opinions of all of these members who swore that the differences were  real (none of them I'll bet did blind testing) and then you went the distance and spent the money. You waited with excitement for the gear to arrive, then finally it did. Do you think that type of journey creates an expectation of positive sound change? I think it is very plausible that it does.
> 
> I actually enjoy the hobby like you, hell I bought an MX-U8 SPDIF converter to try, but I can't hear any difference. I'm not trying to suck the joy out of things for you, believe me I'm not. But if you want to invest in sound changes that our brain can hear try new headphone signatures, those are well vetted changes that even in blind listening tests people can hear differences in signatures so we know the changes are audible. However, as you said, the journey in the hobby is unique for each of us, and perhaps you have no desire to test assumptions, and that is fine, and I mean that. As well, even if the effects are placebo (and I won't say that as absolute fact as I can't do so) it doesn't matter, the effect is real in our subjective brain, so whatever floats your audio boat.
> 
> As I said, I mostly post as I did to provide the opposite viewpoint so new members start off with both sides of a story to explore and then make their own mind up about how their journey in the hobby will unfold. As you said mate, happy listening and I apologize if I have offended you as that isn't my intent.


 
 No Offense taken...a bit of frustration perhaps; but 40 plus years of this hobby have taught me that many people don't really trust there ears or really listen or even know what they are listening for.   I don't know whether that is true for you or not.   I have been into this hobby
 since I was 14 and bought my first pioneer receiver, bsr mcdonald eight track player and a pair of quadraflex 44 loudspeakers from Pacific Stereo in California.  I was finally convinced a turntable sounded better.  I started with a Garrard SL72 B and 12 years ago ended that with
 a highly modified Well-Tempered turntable with A Van Den Hul MC cartridge running into a custom phono stage built into my preamp.  I worked for a number of years For Kimber Kable running technical support and was a regional sales rep for Talon Audio.  Prior to that I sold
 Audio equipment and home theater for a number of years.  After leaving the industry I got back into the DIY approach most particularly Bottlehead equipment. I have many favourite products over the years...some quite expensive...some not.
  
 Let me give my estimation of the ABX extreme.  Julian Hirsch of Hirsch-Houk Labs, Stereo Review, a completely useless magazine that was a shill rag for advertisers.  No comments every about sound quality...just the statement measured and sounded as expected! That was
 my starting point.  At the age of twenty I became aware of quote " High End".   There is a lot of crap and some very expensive things that
 don't make differences and some that do.  Let me tell you of one I used to sell a number of that you will laugh at.  " The Bedini Clarifier!
  
 It is a device, may or may not still be manufactured.  It spins a CD in an AC powered magnetic field at about 300 rpms.  You place your CD on it.  Push the button and it spins for about 30 seconds.  Play it.   I would AB this difference at least two or three times a week when I
 worked at the specific audio shop.  People would "Pooh Pooh"!  80% even audiophiles and customers of the shop.  So we did an A/b.  Pick a CD, yours or ours.  I don't care which. We can do a quick listen or a couple songs what ever you want. I sold a lot of them doing this. It wasn't scientific particularly but it was an A/B.   $125.00 back in the year 2000 or so.  Never had one I sold brought back never any complaints.  Most people I let them hear what it did bought it.  I won't go into the science.   It worked.
  
 What it did was easily worth the money in my estimation and could not be duplicated by another piece of equipment that I was aware of.
  
 Around 2003 a friend of mine modified a $ 500 cd player to beat my well tempered Van Den Hul setup.  I have been digital ever since.
  
 I sold that one to a friend a year later when I let him compare it to a $4000.00 Audio Research cd players.  The modded Adcom beat it!
  
 I have owned $25.000 dollar loudspeakers...granted I worked for Talon.  They were pretty amazing...but honestly I am liking my LFF/Enigmatic Audio Paradox Slants just as much maybe more.  $800 to$1000 depending on how Luis configures them.
  
 I don't have the room or the money to do the big stuff anymore...I might if I could but I am quite happy tweaking the hell out of what I have.
 The Slants are somewhat controversial.  To me they sound more like the best loudspeakers than any headphone I have heard.  I had some
 Grado Refrence Ones a few years back.  They honestly pale in comparison!
  
 I don't buy what other people buy...I could care less.  I want to hear emotion and involvement(PRAT is as good a term as any).  Soundstaging is important and all that implies.  But how the Music plays and it's timing cues.  You don't have to A/B that.  You don't A/B real music.  I can tell you in 10 seconds whether a song sounds more involving on one piece of equipment compared to another.  If I can follow the tune or tap my feet or frankly just feel more energized by having heard it then that is the more correct piece of equipment.  Further listening will bear that out as I compare but it only confirms what I have already determined just by paying attention to the music
 itself.  It is even easier with Direct Stream Digital to do this but not necessary.  It doesn't even have to be a favourite piece or something
 your familiar with.  All though being comfortable and familiar with the music does make the process easier.
  
 Hell let's go one further to show you a point.  I have a somewhat tweaked computer.  Now Chassis isolation shouldn't matter on a computer, guranteed it does on a turntable and on many cd players and also on some DACS, I would submit most!  I have wood tuning devices, composite rubber, hard plastic isolators etc.  It's all irrelevant anyway, right!   So lets load up Afrojack "10 Feet Tall", which is what I did.
 No isolation.  Bouncy nice fun...foot taping song.  Now 3 all brass cones.  Slightly more energy and bouncy but there is some in increased upper treble brightness and hardening that bother me.  Okay lets go with a single mechanical grounding point under computer power supply.
  
 One brass cone and two iso bearing composite rubber balls in their elastomer cup.  Hardness gone...sound just as enegized.  Beat a little easier to follow, notice myself having an easier time following the lyrics and am a bit more compelled to sing along so I do.  I sound awful
 btw when my headphones are on my head.  I am not done yet.  I want to try a harder cone material since at least theoretically a harder
 material has a lower mechanical impedance and should therefore allow vibrational energy to more efficiently transfer from the case into the
 floor it there is in fact excess mechanical energy effecting the sound.  What happens...Most energy yet...you can now hear some counter
 beats with backing instruments that were previously slurred or at least not as distinct.   Its even easier to sing to the song now and tap my
 feet and I do...I litterally feel like letting loose so to speak and so I am bouncing in my chair having a hell of a lot of fun listening to "10 Feet Tall".   My girlfriend loves this song.  Although she prefers the original version by Wrabel!  So I cue that and let her listen doing exactly the same things each time we replay the song.
  
 You suggest that I have to tell her what I am listening for.  Really?  I trust her hearing and her ability to perceive whether or not she likes
 something and why.  Evaluating things this way is not rocket science...nor even hard.  It's frankly quite enjoyable and allows you to quite
 easily fine tune an audio system to your liking.  I will let you figure out what  she heard.  It would have been the same result with anyone
 I would have done this demo for.
  
 Nuff said.
  
 A/B/X is fine and has it's place. However for your consideration!
  
AB Testing: A Misapplication of Visual Criteria in Audio   www.anstendig.org/*ABTesting*.html
  
  
  

 
 
 



  
  I like my system.  I have no need to replace my Paradox Slants and having played with a number of amplifiers I am ecstatic with the New Neco Sound Labs V5.  A current feedback amp that is quite remarkable and suprisingly affordable.
 Dave Cahoon at ZenWave supplies my Cables and my DIY cable.  The devices and things I have mentioned in the article are things I
 have read about extensively...spoken to people who I know and who have similar musical tastes as I do and who have a history of
 experiencing things in much the same fashion I do.  I try very hard to rule out those things which just don't make sense.  But I am willing
 to take a risk to make an improvement without having had to hear it.  Most of the companies I deal with are very good about product
 return if I do not find it to improve my system. Nothing I have mentioned cost more than $200.00.  So I am not breaking the bank here simply refining and improving.  Last night I redid the outbound USB cable from my reclocker!  Again I won't bore you with details.  But based on conversations with Dave, insulation improvement and going to a solid core equivalent wire with a tighter geometry there was
 a noticeable improvement.  About $ 5.00 worth of USB connectors,  3 inches of silver solder and 4 inches of silver gold wire in a quad braid modified to work more effectively for the application.  Result  $20.00 in cost and about 30 minutes of work.  Better Sound!   
  
  
 There ya go!
  
 A sampling of my approach, methodology and background and yes even my bias!   I am not opposed to objectivity, but listening and human experience is best described as subjective.
  
 Happy Listening,
  
 jgwtriode


----------



## Sonic Defender

@jgwtriode, thank you for the thoughtful and detailed response, and I'm glad that I didn't offend you. I can understand that for you, coming from a subjective perspective it would indeed be very frustrating to be confronted by the objective side of the hobby. I am glad you disclosed your bias as well (coming from an industry background that needs to promote features) which of course is pertinent to how you approach things. I am sort of in the middle so rather than assuming things make a difference because they are produced by companies who say there are a difference I remain skeptical (but with an open mind) knowing that where money is concerned, there is always some concern and that objective evidence is every bit as important as subjective experience. By the way my interconnects and speaker cables are Kimber Cable.
  
 Anyway, I know that the subjective and objective camps are often so far apart that only acrimony can come from trying to support our positions, so we can agree on much, and disagree on some things and still get along and respect each other. Thank you for the discussion mate.


----------



## glrtrgi

Have a Ifi Micro DSD coming my way. Always interested in finding out about potential huge bang for the buck mods to equipment. How does one get a hold Igor? And for that matter, Luis?
  
 GLR


----------



## jgwtriode

Igor is K works Audio.  You can type that in a browser and find his website. His email is gorkuz@yahoo.com.  You can mention my name if you want.  James Whiting!
  
 Luis is Luis Flores at Enigmatic Audio.  You will find his website by typing Enigmatic Audio into a browser and his contact info is on his site.  Happy to share any info or answer
  
 any questions about this hobby.  Your also welcome to PM me if you would like.
  
 Happy Listening,
  
 jgwtriode


----------



## jgwtriode

sonic defender said:


> @jgwtriode, thank you for the thoughtful and detailed response, and I'm glad that I didn't offend you. I can understand that for you, coming from a subjective perspective it would indeed be very frustrating to be confronted by the objective side of the hobby. I am glad you disclosed your bias as well (coming from an industry background that needs to promote features) which of course is pertinent to how you approach things. I am sort of in the middle so rather than assuming things make a difference because they are produced by companies who say there are a difference I remain skeptical (but with an open mind) knowing that where money is concerned, there is always some concern and that objective evidence is every bit as important as subjective experience. By the way my interconnects and speaker cables are Kimber Cable.
> 
> Anyway, I know that the subjective and objective camps are often so far apart that only acrimony can come from trying to support our positions, so we can agree on much, and disagree on some things and still get along and respect each other. Thank you for the discussion mate.


 
  No sweat.  I love audio and I love talking about it...but moreover I enjoy listening to equipment and tinkering with it.  I just get frustrated when people get locked into the idea that it has to be measured to be heard.  There are objective things and there are subjective.  What I have learned over the years is that the seemingly subjective things are simpley beyond the limits of our objectivity.  Meaning the science and reasoning behind what we hear is not always immediately apparent.  That doesn;t stop us from hearing it...its just we can't always rationally explain it.
  
 Take for example green penning a cd.  It was years before I talked to someone about why using a particular green marker on the edge of a cd made a difference.  But in the end it simply was away of preventing a cd player from going into error correction.  Green laser spilled off the edge of the cd do to refractions from the laser this created misreads by the inferometer and so you
 were listening to interpolated bits created by error correction.  The green pen absorbed that light.  Interestingly enough another technique was beveling the edge at a 30 to 45 degree angle. Accomplished some of the same thing.  I used a mill person file on mine when I tried it.  One company built a lathe to do it with.  Not cheap either.  Just to be sure I was getting maximum
 effect I beveled the edge and green penned many of my my cds and there was a noticeable improvement...and of course I ran the Bedini clarifier on them.
  
 Just an example of something I couldnt explain until a few years later but still heard.   Kimber makes some good products but honestly Rays advances are really all in the past.  There are no
 particular new technologies going on there.  If you want to improve your wire look to some of the newer stuff like ZenWave.  Dave makes some awesome product and uses much more serious
 metalurgy.  Essentially variations on Neotech OCC crystal structure 7/9's silver, silver/gold and copper wire.  420 foot long monocrystal structure.  You can look up the technology and the patent
 under a japanese Dr.  named Professo Ohno if you want to look into this.   Kimber is still just doing good but relatively standard OFC 6/9's technology.  Check it out sometime.
  
 Dave is awesome and approachable.  He is my wire guy and when I have questions I just call and chat with him.
  
 If you want to understand Reclocker stuff...John Swenson at uptone is brilliant.  Although the Recovery reclocker from W4S is a noticeable improvement at about the same price. I have had
 both in my system.  Both are pretty good about in home trial and refund if you want to play.  Either works better with a linear power supply running it instead of a switching supply that comes
 with it.  I built mine from Kits for less than $50.  They work quite nicely.
  
 I am never opposed to direct listening comparisons but quick switching is not often easy to do and controlling all the variables can be challenging.  Switching devices add their own colorations
 to the sound and there is a certain amount of performance anxiety unless you simply do it yourself.  And after all it is yourself you are trying to please.
  
 Years ago I followed the Linn/Naim approach to pace, timing and rythmn and that forever changed my approach to choosing equipment.  I maintain that the better the equipment the better it will
 do that.  The other things can be monkeyed around with at your leisure.  I find that long term listening really lets me determine how well things throw or layer a soundstage or how accurately detailed they are.  Tonal and harmonic structure are perceived best with very familiar stuff on instruments you listen to a lot.  This requires time.  I have always found that if it gets PRAT right
 the rest will generally follow.
  
 Oh well....its late and I need to do some more listening before bed.   
 The best to you and in improving your system!
  
 Happy  Listening,
 jgwtriode


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

aegruin said:


> There will be a iDSD2 soon?


 
 Nope. But judging from the cases of the iDAC, the iPurifier, the iUSB, iPower & iCan I think that the 2nd generation of each iFI line will improve greatly in comparison to the next. So I just play it safe and sold the iDSD Micro while it's still keeping much of its value.


----------



## Smileyko

Hey guys and gals. New guy here. Not an audiophile at all but after reading Head Fi in the last 4 months I have bought the DRagonfly 1.2, the RED then the Mojo. Driving Grado 500e, PM2, Nighthawk, now just 3 days ago the Hifiman HEX. Now I am on this thread. Please tell me I have more then enough for one year. Do I still need the IDSD. My next read is on Woo Audio and I might sink deep into the WA8 just to try something new. Love you all's thoughts. I bought all my gear blind. Never seen or heard before I bought. Just from reading Head Fi. MOST THANKFUL!!!


----------



## howdy

smileyko said:


> Hey guys and gals. New guy here. Not an audiophile at all but after reading Head Fi in the last 4 months I have bought the DRagonfly 1.2, the RED then the Mojo. Driving Grado 500e, PM2, Nighthawk, now just 3 days ago the Hifiman HEX. Now I am on this thread. Please tell me I have more then enough for one year. Do I still need the IDSD. My next read is on Woo Audio and I might sink deep into the WA8 just to try something new. Love you all's thoughts. I bought all my gear blind. Never seen or heard before I bought. Just from reading Head Fi. MOST THANKFUL!!!


 
 I for one can say the Micro pairs really nice with the HEK. I do not own the HEK but auditioned them at a Head-fi meet with my Micro and it has more than enough power for them and makes them really shine. I also have the Mojo and still prefer the sound of the Micro over the Mojo. I have the PM3s as well and both Micro and Mojo sound sublime with those. I had the PM2s and liked the Micro with them ( I prefer the PM2 over PM3s).


----------



## warrior1975

Smileyko I found the micro and mojo to sound very similar. Ultimately choose depending on your needs and use. Mojo better on the go, and obviously smaller. Micro has much more power and some fancy switches.


----------



## howdy

warrior1975 said:


> @Smileyko I found the micro and mojo to sound very similar. Ultimately choose depending on your needs and use. Mojo better on the go, and obviously smaller. Micro has much more power and some fancy switches.


 
 Very true! Thats exactly how I use my Mojo that I got from a fellow Headfier for a great price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Micro is for at home use only, to big to carry around.


----------



## warrior1975

Well I hear you are a good bro, that's why you were hooked up.  speaking if which, you like the case?

I'm still toying with the full ifi desktop setup. Have to decide if I'm adding anothee set of cans, the Abyss in particular.


----------



## howdy

warrior1975 said:


> Well I hear you are a good bro, that's why you were hooked up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, the case is awesome keeps it looking good.Thanks!!


----------



## Smileyko

howdy said:


> Very true! Thats exactly how I use my Mojo that I got from a fellow Headfier for a great price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Kind thanks my friend. Only reason my hands itch now it's because I am cooking the HEX on the 150 hours of burn in the the Dragonfly RED since I am on the road this week. I just know it will sound like heaven with a more powerful set up. I already have the Mojo waiting at home. But I am killing 3 days so I get the ITCH, you all know what I mean. I want to spend money to kill time in a way. BAD BAD BAD me. But I want something NEW. I did loo at the WOO WA8 but it's not in HK at all. So here I am reading this thread for hours.


----------



## jgwtriode

howdy said:


> I for one can say the Micro pairs really nice with the HEK. I do not own the HEK but auditioned them at a Head-fi meet with my Micro and it has more than enough power for them and makes them really shine. I also have the Mojo and still prefer the sound of the Micro over the Mojo. I have the PM3s as well and both Micro and Mojo sound sublime with those. I had the PM2s and liked the Micro with them ( I prefer the PM2 over PM3s).


 
 I have to ask what is it that you prefer about the Micro over the Mojo.  My Micro is about to be modded to theorectically at least surpass the Mojo and a few other higher dollar DACs.  But the Micro even has a thread seemingly where the comparison is made  between them.  Most people still seem to prefer the Mojo...but....well just wondering.  I love the Micro especially after all the things
 I have done to improve what is in front of it.
  
 Thanks for your insights in advance,
  
 Jgwtriode


----------



## warrior1975

How are you modding the Micro?


----------



## Amoy Utot

jgwtriode said:


> I have to ask what is it that you prefer about the Micro over the Mojo.  My Micro is about to be modded to theorectically at least surpass the Mojo and a few other higher dollar DACs.  But the Micro even has a thread seemingly where the comparison is made  between them.  Most people still seem to prefer the Mojo...but....well just wondering.  I love the Micro especially after all the things
> I have done to improve what is in front of it.
> 
> Thanks for your insights in advance,
> ...


 

 Hi, can you please share the link on how to mod the micro? Thanks


----------



## jgwtriode

amoy utot said:


> Hi, can you please share the link on how to mod the micro? Thanks



 


There is no mod page! As I mentioned in a previous post. Igor Kunetzoff at K Works Audio is doing the modification for me. Not cheap but I suspect easily worth it. He has a standard rebuilt version of the Nano on his website. Look up K Works Audio on a browser and you will see that. I asked
him about doing a Micro and he discussed with me a general Idea about what was possible. I will be sending it off to him next week to do the modification. 

That is the mod I am talking about.

Check out his website and you will see what I mean. He mods other stuff as well. If your interested you can find contact info on his website!

jgwtriode


----------



## jgwtriode

warrior1975 said:


> How are you modding the Micro?



 


I am not doing the mod! Igor Kuznetsoff is doing the mod for me. Go to his website at K Works Audio...you can also read about his modified DSD nano which is a more standard item on his website. There is
a thread on the Nano here on headfi where it is discussed. search for it under K Works Audio Nano etc.

jgwtriode


----------



## warrior1975

Thanks, I'll check it out.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

After some times owning both the Micro and the m9xx, I would like to post some comparison between them. If you are interested in the Mojo, this should help too, as IME the Mojo sound almost identical to the m9xx. In fact, the m9xx can be said to be between the Mojo and the iDSD Micro, however it leans towards the Mojo more.
*Overall:*
 I can easily see why a lot of people prefer the m9xx/Mojo to the iDSD Micro. They are simply more musical and more involving. The iDSD on the other hand is more neutral, no emphasis or no smoothing in any freq ranges. 
*Trebles:*
 The m9xx is much smoother. It gives the feeling that the trebles is sparkling without getting sibilant. The iDSD's trebles is cleaner and more energetic. For Heavy Metal I prefer the iDSD much more than the m9xx, but for Prog Rock that needs sparkles, the m9xx is definitely my favorite DAC.
*Mids:*
 Once again "smoother" is what I'd use to describe the m9xx. There's no harshness to any of these 2, but the m9xx sounds a bit more laid back on some cans. The difference is not huge, though. 
*Bass:*
 More bass on the m9xx, even with iDSD's xBass on. Bass extension is better on the m9xx, though the iDSD is just fast and lean enough for Metal and Classical. 
*Soundstage:*
 There's no definite winner. On most songs the m9xx sound more spacious, but the iDSD's soundstage is just more natural and believable. Anyway the m9xx has better depths.
*DAC:*
 I used both of these to feed my Little Dot I+ with Burson opamp (did a review on this fantastic combo) and both didn't disappoint, obviously. I use the _iDSD more for Metal, Classical and Acoustic_ and the _m9xx for more laid-back music_. I think the inherent traits of these 2 are better shown when they're used as DAC only, and they're both DACs that have an amp section (the m9xx don't even have a line-in for its amp). 
*Amp:*
 The amp sections in the m9xx and the iDSD doesn't add too much color to the sound, but most of the time I just use them as DAC.
 While the m9xx can drive 2 headphones at once, the iDSD's amp wins hands down in my book. First of all, it has a line in to support other DAC. Second, the iDSD's amp is powerful enough to drive the HE6, which in my books is the 2nd-hardest-to-drive headphones of all time, just behind the K1000. I brought my iDSD to a meet and to everyone's amazement, it just beats practically every (big, cumbersome) desk amps present. In terms of power, of course.
 In terms of functionality, the xBass on iDSD is useless. So useless that more than once I've seen people in this and other threads ask if their units are defective. The 3D effect (which is more or less crossfeed) doesn't sound too pleasant to me. The m9xx's crossfeed is much better. The Mojo doesn't have crossfeed in any form.
*Buy & Sell*
 A lot of people I've spoken to sold the iDSD to keep the m9xx (or Mojo). Which also happened in my case. However, I don't take it as a sign that the m9xx is better, due to the fact that the m9xx and the iDSD are different (and both enjoyable) to me. That said, the difference, while enjoyable, is 10% at max, and again they're both solid choice. The reason I sold the iDSD is that my finances at the moment don't allow keeping both, but when iFi release newer generation for the iDSD I'd definitely buy it. 
  
_(I post this in both iDSD and m9xx's thread, so please don't be mad at me)_


----------



## gr8soundz

williamleonhart said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice comparison.
  
 Every time I think of getting a Mojo I remember reading (several times) that it and the iDSD are very close in overall sound quality.
  
 Did you use multiple filters on the iDSD? I find that, on some songs, switching between standard, minimum phase, and bit-perfect can make a significant difference.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I did but most of the time I sticked with Bit Perfect as per iFi's suggestion. All of my music are in PCM formats. None of my fav albums are available in DSD. 
  
 Oh and I forgot to mention, my iDSD had a iPurifier2 and a Dell USB cable, which I felt improved the sound subtly but audibly. The m9xx in its stock form was great and had no noise. It use 2 different cables and even includes a DC charger. Which sounds a bit misleading, cos the m9xx has no battery at all. The charger are just to separate the power signal from the usb signal.
  
 And this might be important to some people as well: the iDSD supports coax/opt input/output while the m9xx don't support coax. Never tried these 2 myself but some people says in general coax is better than opt, both are better than USB.


----------



## WindyCityCy

He guys.  I just got the Micro DSD and some Genelec 8010A's for my work computer setup.  I can't get the Micro DSD to be recognized on my laptop.  I've tried the included blue USB cable in addition to 2 other monoprice USB cables.  I've restarted my laptop and even tried on another laptop.  Mine is a Windows 7 64-bit laptop.  The Micro DSD shows up in the Device Manager but with a Device status that says it 'cannot start (Code 10)'.
  
 Any ideas what to try next?  I filed a ticket with iFi but thought maybe the forum might have some pointers.


----------



## Sonic Defender

windycitycy said:


> He guys.  I just got the Micro DSD and some Genelec 8010A's for my work computer setup.  I can't get the Micro DSD to be recognized on my laptop.  I've tried the included blue USB cable in addition to 2 other monoprice USB cables.  I've restarted my laptop and even tried on another laptop.  Mine is a Windows 7 64-bit laptop.  The Micro DSD shows up in the Device Manager but with a Device status that says it 'cannot start (Code 10)'.
> 
> Any ideas what to try next?  I filed a ticket with iFi but thought maybe the forum might have some pointers.


 
 You installed the drivers?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Yep, the driver. When I upgraded from ODAC and Modi2 to the iDAC2 I didn't know that iFi stuffs would require drivers. Nevertheless they're here.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/


----------



## WindyCityCy

sonic defender said:


> You installed the drivers?


 
 I guess I expected the driver to automatically install when attaching the device.  I just found the website with the drivers.  Is there one that is recommended?  Most of the time I will be connected to a laptop and powered monitors.  I may connected my iDevices when travelling as well.


----------



## Sonic Defender

There you go, drivers and your golden. You will be in for a treat, the Micro is a solid piece of kit mate.


----------



## WindyCityCy

OK I just installed the 2.26.exe driver.  It's recognized now.  Thanks guys.


----------



## Brooko

windycitycy said:


> He guys.  I just got the Micro DSD and some Genelec 8010A's for my work computer setup.  I can't get the Micro DSD to be recognized on my laptop.  I've tried the included blue USB cable in addition to 2 other monoprice USB cables.  I've restarted my laptop and even tried on another laptop.  Mine is a Windows 7 64-bit laptop.  The Micro DSD shows up in the Device Manager but with a Device status that says it 'cannot start (Code 10)'.
> 
> Any ideas what to try next?  I filed a ticket with iFi but thought maybe the forum might have some pointers.


 
  
 Did you download and install the drivers?


----------



## WindyCityCy

Sounding good so far.  Gonna let the new speakers and dac break-in for awhile.  Have this setup on a sit-stand desk.  I think this is exactly what I was looking for so the desk can easily be raised and lowered.


----------



## Sonic Defender

windycitycy said:


> Sounding good so far.  Gonna let the new speakers and dac break-in for awhile.  Have this setup on a sit-stand desk.  I think this is exactly what I was looking for so the desk can easily be raised and lowered.


 
 Nice, I use the Micro often with my Kanto YU3 active speakers and Kanto Sub6 for a solid desktop rig (or in my case, kitchen table rig). The Micro has a pretty nicely implemented DAC section I think.


----------



## iFi audio

williamleonhart said:


> I didn't know that iFi stuffs would require drivers. Nevertheless they're here.
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/


 
  
 Hi
  
 On Windows, anything above 96kHz requires the requisite driver as Windows is only Audio Class 1.0 compliant.
  
 Windows is not Audio Class 2.0 compliant. Hence every DAC out there that handles over 96khz requires a driver.
  
 Nature of the beast!
  
 (Bty, OS X does not)


----------



## potkettleblack

Guys will a non Apple female usb to iPhone 6 connection be fine to use with the iPhone 6 and Ifi idsd micro?


----------



## iFi audio

potkettleblack said:


> Guys will a non Apple female usb to iPhone 6 connection be fine to use with the iPhone 6 and Ifi idsd micro?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Nope. One must purchase the Apple Lightning cable as Apple has circuitry to extract the digital signal from the iPhone.
  
 No way to avoid buying the Apple cable.


----------



## potkettleblack

Gutted. It would be nice to browse on my phone at the same time as listening to music, but the cable seems to be too short for that


----------



## iFi audio

potkettleblack said:


> Gutted. It would be nice to browse on my phone at the same time as listening to music, but the cable seems to be too short for that


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We browse and listen to music like this:
  

  
 If you are out and about, use the 2 x rubber bands to hold the two together.
  
 We also use the iFi feet to separate the two units.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

potkettleblack said:


> Gutted. It would be nice to browse on my phone at the same time as listening to music, but the cable seems to be too short for that


 


  You can buy a number of different cables including custom ones (above) or regular ones (below)


----------



## potkettleblack

Yeah yeah it's cool guys I thought that would be the only option. Big up yourselves for replying so fast.


----------



## bflat

HI All,
  
 New iDSD owner here. Pretty impressed so far and I think I understand most of the buttons and sliders. However, what is not clear to me is what the USB port on the side is for. I read it's for power only but a couple clarifying questions:
  
 1) Should I connect a USB power cable to the side for best results?
 2) If yes, does this also mean that the battery will never be used as long as the side USB port has power?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## vapman

bflat said:


> HI All,
> 
> New iDSD owner here. Pretty impressed so far and I think I understand most of the buttons and sliders. However, what is not clear to me is what the USB port on the side is for. I read it's for power only but a couple clarifying questions:
> 
> ...


 

 It's only for charging other stuff with the iDSD's battery. Imagine it is no different than a wall USB adapter, that's pretty much all it does.
 I never once used it on mine.


----------



## bflat

vapman said:


> It's only for charging other stuff with the iDSD's battery. Imagine it is no different than a wall USB adapter, that's pretty much all it does.
> I never once used it on mine.


 

 Ah ha! Never once considered power out LOL. thanks


----------



## DarktoreS

Do you think the Ican SE is a good complement to micro IDSD is that the amp is much better than that of the IDSD ? I have a ATH R70x , I find the very good result so I wonder if I just increase the quality for a modest investment ?


----------



## knorris908

darktores said:


> Do you think the Ican SE is a good complement to micro IDSD is that the amp is much better than that of the IDSD ? I have a ATH R70x , I find the very good result so I wonder if I just increase the quality for a modest investment ?


 
 I have both right here, and YES the iCAN has noticeably improved the the AMP performance over my iDSD Micro.  The Micro is still quite good, but the iCAN SE is just MORE.  Think tricked-out 8 Cylinder Mustang VS 12-Cylinder Ferrari FF.  Either has more horsepower than any SANE person would need, but yes, the Ferrari FF technically has more.  It's like that.

 iFi iCAN, iCAN SE, iDSD, & iTUBE with HiFiMan HE400i - All part of my audio audition suite.
 (So that you can see that I've been able to test them against each other head-to-head...)


----------



## rafaelpernil

windycitycy said:


> He guys.  I just got the Micro DSD and some Genelec 8010A's for my work computer setup.  I can't get the Micro DSD to be recognized on my laptop.  I've tried the included blue USB cable in addition to 2 other monoprice USB cables.  I've restarted my laptop and even tried on another laptop.  Mine is a Windows 7 64-bit laptop.  The Micro DSD shows up in the Device Manager but with a Device status that says it 'cannot start (Code 10)'.
> 
> Any ideas what to try next?  I filed a ticket with iFi but thought maybe the forum might have some pointers.


 
 If v2.26 driver version doesn't work for you, try with v2.23. When I had Win 7, v2.23 ran perfectly fine.
  
 Hope it helps


----------



## DarktoreS

Question : the IDSD micro with iTube buffer and Ican Se is good result ..?


----------



## Sonic Defender

darktores said:


> Do you think the Ican SE is a good complement to micro IDSD is that the amp is much better than that of the IDSD ? I have a ATH R70x , I find the very good result so I wonder if I just increase the quality for a modest investment ?


 
 The Micro is more than enough amp in terms of power and quality for the R70X. Hell it is good enough for my LCD 2F and drives it nicely in Normal mode. I think at this quality of sound reproduction differences are very small and more of a sound signature preference (assuming iFi tuned it differently enough to matter).
  
 You will see far more obvious difference/potential improvement with a new headphone (if you are wanting to experience a new signature, not because the R70X isn't a nice headphone).


----------



## gr8soundz

darktores said:


> Question : the IDSD micro with iTube buffer and Ican Se is good result ..?


 
  
 Don't have the iCan but I use the iTube after my iDSD Micro before going to a different amp. The iTube makes a huge difference. Much fuller, smoother sound with lots of low end. Sometimes I can no longer use the iDSD's xbass (in preamp mode). The low end is sometimes too much with it on and with the iTube in the chain.
  
 Before getting the iTube, I asked iFi about the SE's TubeState feature and they stated some of their engineers still insist on using the iTube with the iCan SE.


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> Before getting the iTube, I asked iFi about the SE's TubeState feature and they stated some of their engineers still insist on using the iTube with the iCan SE.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 But some dont as we all have different tastes. Some like tubes more, some less.
  
 Always, try before buy!


----------



## DarktoreS

knorris908 said:


> I have both right here, and YES the iCAN has noticeably improved the the AMP performance over my iDSD Micro.  The Micro is still quite good, but the iCAN SE is just MORE.  Think tricked-out 8 Cylinder Mustang VS 12-Cylinder Ferrari FF.  Either has more horsepower than any SANE person would need, but yes, the Ferrari FF technically has more.  It's like that.
> 
> iFi iCAN, iCAN SE, iDSD, & iTUBE with HiFiMan HE400i - All part of my audio audition suite.
> (So that you can see that I've been able to test them against each other head-to-head...)


 
  
  
 My "FINAL" combo for the ATH R70x with ear pads Brainwavz hybrid and Forza-audio cable. The IDSD Micro , iTube buffer 100€ on ebay fr and Ican SE from amazon french for 265€


----------



## WindyCityCy

Well I'm happy with the sound I'm getting through the Genelec 8010s and so far I've tried Denon D7000 and Audeze LCD-2v1 with great results.  However, the Micro gets dropped from my laptop somehow when I'm not playing anything (after approx 10-15 minutes of websurfing, etc).  It sends a loud thud to the Genelecs and then the only way to get sound again is to turn the Micro off and then on again.  
  
 Suggestions on how to resolve this?


----------



## howdy

windycitycy said:


> Well I'm happy with the sound I'm getting through the Genelec 8010s and so far I've tried Denon D7000 and Audeze LCD-2v1 with great results.  However, the Micro gets dropped from my laptop somehow when I'm not playing anything (after approx 10-15 minutes of websurfing, etc).  It sends a loud thud to the Genelecs and then the only way to get sound again is to turn the Micro off and then on again.
> 
> Suggestions on how to resolve this?



You can search this thread but if I recall it times out after so long and the thud is the amp shutting down.


----------



## DarktoreS

Go firmware 5.2B


----------



## WindyCityCy

darktores said:


> Go firmware 5.2B


 
 So far updating to this firmware seems to be working.  Thanks for the help!


----------



## Amoy Utot

Hi,
 If I plug a 3.5mm jack from a DAP to the iDSD 3.5mm input and set the unit to "pre amp" mode (not direct),.. will the signal pass thru the iDSD DAC then AMP section, or just the AMP section?


----------



## technobear

amoy utot said:


> Hi,
> 
> If I plug a 3.5mm jack from a DAP to the iDSD 3.5mm input and set the unit to "pre amp" mode (not direct),.. will the signal pass thru the iDSD DAC then AMP section, or just the AMP section?




3.5mm input >> headphone amp >> headphone output


The pre-amp/direct switch only affects the RCA outputs. 

There is no output at the RCAs when using the 3.5mm input.

The 3.5mm input is an *analogue *input. A DAC requires a *digital *input so feeding the 3.5mm input to the DAC section is a logical impossibility.

Edit: my mistake - could have sworn I read that somewhere in these threads :rolleyes:


----------



## Amoy Utot

technobear said:


> 3.5mm input >> headphone amp >> headphone output
> 
> 
> The pre-amp/direct switch only affects the RCA outputs.
> ...


 

 I'm sorry, my previous post is incomplete. Here's my signal flow on the setup:

 DAP (set to "direct" mode, full volume from AMP) >> iDSD 3.5mm input >> iDSD RCA output >> Analog input of Integrated Amp

 Yes, there's an output at the RCA when using the 3.5mm input (no headphone plugged in)
 Here's my previous question:

 If I plug a 3.5mm jack from a DAP to the iDSD 3.5mm input and set the unit to "pre amp" mode (not direct),.. will the signal pass thru the iDSD DAC then AMP section, or just the AMP section?


----------



## iFi audio

amoy utot said:


> If I plug a 3.5mm jack from a DAP to the iDSD 3.5mm input and set the unit to "pre amp" mode (not direct),.. will the signal pass thru the iDSD DAC then AMP section, or just the AMP section?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The 3.5mm input is for an analogue signal only. So it will not pass through the DAC section, only the AMP section.
  
 It is for amplifying an analogue signal only not a digital signal.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Amoy Utot

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> The 3.5mm input is for an analogue signal only. So it will not pass through the DAC section, only the AMP section.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you so much, the X bass and 3D circuitry is located before or after the AMP section?


----------



## technobear

amoy utot said:


> ...the X bass and 3D circuitry is located before or after the AMP section?




Before/after/within? Why does it matter?

X-BASS and 3D are part of the amp, not part of the DAC. Does that answer your question?


----------



## Amoy Utot

technobear said:


> Before/after/within? Why does it matter?
> 
> X-BASS and 3D are part of the amp, not part of the DAC. Does that answer your question?


 

 Thank you so much, I'm just curious on the circuit design these days. I haven't done any electronic circuit design in 35 years.


----------



## iFi audio

amoy utot said:


> Thank you so much, the X bass and 3D circuitry is located before or after the AMP section?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 XBass and 3D Holographic are both Analogue Signal Processing circuits.
  
 So they are in the analogue domain (as opposed to Digital Signal Processing which we don't do because we prefer Bit-Perfect).
  
 If set to 'Off' they are not in the circuit path. We leave it to the customer to decide if they wish to use it or not. Audio is subjective and all that.


----------



## iFi audio

windycitycy said:


> Well I'm happy with the sound I'm getting through the Genelec 8010s and so far I've tried Denon D7000 and Audeze LCD-2v1 with great results.
> 
> However, the Micro gets dropped from my laptop somehow when I'm not playing anything (after approx 10-15 minutes of websurfing, etc).  It sends a loud thud to the Genelecs and then the only way to get sound again is to turn the Micro off and then on again.
> 
> Suggestions on how to resolve this?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 In default setting (factory) the Genelec Monitors will produce 100dB/1m with 0.39V input (-6dBU). In other words, these monitors have very high input sensitivity and will require less than 0.39V to produce maximum rated output (96dB/1m). 
  
 The studio standard is normally -14....-20dBFS = +6dBU or around 3.9V = 0dB. So this is a HUGE mismatch with any sensible source, even an iPhone will overload these speakers easily (never mind the micro iDSD).
  
 In Eco mode the iDSD micro will produce > 2V output with the volume control maxed out and a 0dB signal, this would produce in theory 114dB, where normal listening levels are commonly at 85dB average and 105dB peak for 0dBSF. 
  
 In practice it will overload the speaker severely with the volume at max. and it results in magnifying a fairly minor click when the DAC goes into standby.
  
 Using Normal or Turbo mode boosts the preamp output gain another 9dB and produces around 5.5V (normal mode) output, WAY too much for the Genelec 8010, though appropriate for any gear following traditional studio standards. 
  
 The Genelec 8010 can be switched to lower sensitivity, using the -10dB switch. This will give a better volume control range in Eco mode and significantly reduce the loudness of the click. 
  
 Even better choice and match between DAC and active monitor may be to use an external 20dB attenuator between iDSD micro and Monitor and normal mode for both items. This way 3.9V will produce 100dB. 
  
 Alternatively, as others have suggested Software version 5.XB will disable sleep mode and do away with the click. In stationary, 'always on' use in Eco or Normal mode sleep mode is not necessary, as long as the iDSD micro is occasionally turned off and allowed to top up the battery to full.
  
 We hope we haven't data overloaded anyone who reads this!


----------



## cbl117

Just out of curiosity, what is the next set up from the iDSD micro assuming a DAP as source, and at least for transportable use? It seems like the iDSD micro doesn't have many peers with the exception of the mojo, but that's more of a lateral move. I would be using full size cans so needs to have power.


----------



## Sonic Defender

cbl117 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is the next set up from the iDSD micro assuming a DAP as source, and at least for transportable use? It seems like the iDSD micro doesn't have many peers with the exception of the mojo, but that's more of a lateral move. I would be using full size cans so needs to have power.


 
 iCAN SE Pro sounds impressive to say the least, and I think it is transportable, at least if not ideally so still possible.


----------



## cbl117

sonic defender said:


> iCAN SE Pro sounds impressive to say the least, and I think it is transportable, at least if not ideally so still possible.




Does iCAN pro have a dac? I'm looking to keep the dac and amp in one transportable unit. Preferably with battery so I only need to worry about charging one in a while. 

I guess another option is to use the AK100ii as a dac and focus on the best portable amp. Any ideas which direction could produce the highest SQ possible?


----------



## Sonic Defender

cbl117 said:


> Does iCAN pro have a dac? I'm looking to keep the dac and amp in one transportable unit. Preferably with battery so I only need to worry about charging one in a while.
> 
> I guess another option is to use the AK100ii as a dac and focus on the best portable amp. Any ideas which direction could produce the highest SQ possible?


 
 Yes, my bad, when you said DAP as a source I was thinking DAC function as well, when really I shouldn't have. Yes, no DAC, but if you have a DAP with a solid DAC section, prioritizing the amplifier isn't a bad idea as a good amp such as this one would give you plenty of flexibility. Other than that, the Micro still remains competitive and a great sounding, transportable all in one solution. Edit: removed dumb question as your signature clearly shows you have the Micro - which is quite a nice little device.
  
 As for which approach is better, really no answer to that as it is all about sound signature preferences. Even basic DACs these days when properly implemented sound great, and if the tuning of the DAC is similar, most DACs I suspect would sound very, very similar to users, and the same can be said for properly implemented amp designs; it is all about the signature preference once the technical designs are solid.


----------



## technobear

cbl117 said:


> sonic defender said:
> 
> 
> > iCAN SE Pro sounds impressive to say the least, and I think it is transportable, at least if not ideally so still possible.
> ...




The micro iCAN does not have a DAC.

The micro iCAN SE does not have a DAC.

The Pro iCAN does not have a DAC.

Also none of these models have a battery. They all require a power supply.

There is no such model as an "iCAN SE Pro".

From your requirement, it sounds like you already have the best solution in the micro iDSD.


ps. there is also no such model as "the micro". Please be specific. You are confusing the noobs.


----------



## Sonic Defender

technobear said:


> The micro iCAN does not have a DAC.
> 
> The micro iCAN SE does not have a DAC.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes my bad, remembered incorrectly it was indeed the Pro iCan I was referring to.


----------



## cbl117

sonic defender said:


> Yes, my bad, when you said DAP as a source I was thinking DAC function as well, when really I shouldn't have. Yes, no DAC, but if you have a DAP with a solid DAC section, prioritizing the amplifier isn't a bad idea as a good amp such as this one would give you plenty of flexibility. Other than that, the Micro still remains competitive and a great sounding, transportable all in one solution. Have you used a Micro and are looking to upgrade, or just trying to go right for the best iFi product you can get?
> 
> As for which approach is better, really no answer to that as it is all about sound signature preferences. Even basic DACs these days when properly implemented sound great, and if the tuning of the DAC is similar, most DACs I suspect would sound very, very similar to users, and the same can be said for properly implemented amp designs; it is all about the signature preference once the technical designs are solid.




I've been using an AK100ii ->. Toslink -> iDSD Micro. It sounds good but doesn't compare to my desktop setup in my office. So I'm wondering if there is a way to get better sound when I'm in other areas of the house. First world problems..


----------



## technobear

cbl117 said:


> I've been using an AK100ii ->. Toslink -> iDSD Micro. It sounds good but doesn't compare to my desktop setup in my office. So I'm wondering if there is a way to get better sound when I'm in other areas of the house. First world problems..




Better sound usually requires full class A operation and that is not compatible with long battery life unless the device is designed only to drive very sensitive IEMs which require very little power.


----------



## WindyCityCy

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> In default setting (factory) the Genelec Monitors will produce 100dB/1m with 0.39V input (-6dBU). In other words, these monitors have very high input sensitivity and will require less than 0.39V to produce maximum rated output (96dB/1m).
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for this explanation.  I'm wondering if this product would provide the external attenuation between the iDSD micro and the Genelecs (if so, the mute button and the variable settings both seem like useful features).  Can someone (maybe iFi) comment?
  
 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1166537-REG/palmer_pmonicon_passive_monitor_controller.html


----------



## technobear

windycitycy said:


> I'm wondering if this product would provide the external attenuation between the iDSD micro and the Genelecs (if so, the mute button and the variable settings both seem like useful features).  Can someone (maybe iFi) comment?
> 
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1166537-REG/palmer_pmonicon_passive_monitor_controller.html




Something like this is all you need:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rothwell-RCA-In-Line-Attenuators-20db/dp/B00JUXUQXO


----------



## Sonic Defender

cbl117 said:


> I've been using an AK100ii ->. Toslink -> iDSD Micro. It sounds good but doesn't compare to my desktop setup in my office. So I'm wondering if there is a way to get better sound when I'm in other areas of the house. First world problems..


 
 First world problems indeed. So what aspects of the sound seem to suffer as compared with your home setup? I would still suggest it is mostly sound signature differences as opposed to technical deficiencies at play. The AK should be a perfectly capable source and the Micro is a solid little device. I have only heard the WA22 once at a headphone meet so I am only guessing, but it should have a fairly tube like euphoric sound. If that is the case, and you really enjoy that sound I could see why a SS based system might not produce that same magic you are used to. Nice rigs you have by the way, what are the monitors you list? I also use dual subs with monitors for my speaker rig.


----------



## WindyCityCy

technobear said:


> Something like this is all you need:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rothwell-RCA-In-Line-Attenuators-20db/dp/B00JUXUQXO


 
 I'm still interested in if the product I linked would be a good option (especially since it provides the ability to mute the speakers while listening to headphone).  However, this rothwell in-line attenuator looks promising.  I went to their website and it looks like they have this product that is intended to connect to the input socket of amps (so this would connect to the active speakers and not the iFi Micro I believe).  They make a separate attenuator for connecting to the output of source components (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rothwell-Line-Attenuators-20dB-Source/dp/B01ED429UW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=41ZN6Pe7erL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=74ETHHZTPCC7760Z483H).  I'm thinking that the product I linked would be to right way to go.  Is this correct?


----------



## Korabeu

Greetings everyone,
  
 first of all I must confess I am *completely new* to this perspective on listening one's favorite music.
 Some call it a hobby but I somehow feel but it could mean more than that to some. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Not wanting to bore you with the details of my recent (pseudo-relatively documented) interest in this fascinating matter,  I feel I should also add that
 the decision of buying an iFi iDSD Micro + Sennheiser HD650 a few days ago is also owed to this very website and the extensive volume of information shared here.
 That being said, I would like to thank everyone here for their contribution and input, it's been a very educational process and it continues to be so. 
  
 Part of that process is the following noob question, for which I apologize in advance:
  
 - I have my desktop computer under my desk, on the left side, and the Micro sitting on the desk, on the right side of the display
 - the Micro is connected to an USB2.0 port located on mainboard's back panel
 - the USB cable length is 1m and it doesn't seem to be quite enough for me to reach it comfortably with my right hand, as the cable is too short
 - the display has an integrated USB hub that is also connected to the mainboard and itself powers & operates various other devices, like the mouse & keyboard for example
 - connecting the Micro to the display's USB ports would solve my USB cable length problem
  
 Since I really don't wish to change the operation to the left hand side, could I connect the Micro to the display's USB hub
 and maintain the same level of audio quality, or would there be any loss?
*Or in short: does it matter which USB port is Micro connected to, be it situated directly on the mainboard or not? *
  
 This may be a dumb question but I have no other, yet, as everything seems to be running fine and is new, fun, interesting & intriguing  to say the least.
  
  
 Thank you for your help,


----------



## Sonic Defender

@Korabeu you can indeed try that USB port and it should be no different at all (unless there was some kind of fault with the unit). I have a laptop cooling pad with 4 USB ports on it and I have on a few occasions attached the Micro to one of them and noticed no ill effect. The HD 650 must sound nice with the Micro.


----------



## jgwtriode

korabeu said:


> Greetings everyone,
> 
> first of all I must confess I am *completely new* to this perspective on listening one's favorite music.
> Some call it a hobby but I somehow feel but it could mean more than that to some.
> ...


 
 You mention that the port is directly connected to the motherboard??  If that is the case no difference I would imagine.  If however it is connected through additional cable from the mobo than
 that will color the sound.  It may or may not be noticeable.  Depends on your perception and also the level of resolution of your associated equipment.  The IDSD is quite resolving so there could
 be a difference in that case.  I can assure that all kinds of things that people debate on this and other sites can make differences.  I will point out a recent one that suprised me I built a 4 inch adaptor/cable to improve the sound over my hard adapter between my reclocking device and my IDSD micro. Used 7/9's silver and basic usb connectors and very good silver solder.  Wow!  Now one step further. Made another in a boutique quality USB male into reclocker and a regular female cable usb connector...can't find a boutique one of these.  The data wire is Silver/gold from same manufacturer and the power and gnd are same silver.  Both in a better quality teflon.  Still 4" I much more completely seperated data and power runs...forming a oval loop.  Data above...power and ground below.  Data in a twisted pair config.  Power and ground completely seperated and spaced away...ala bottom of said oval connection.   Extreme...yes.  Difference oh yes immediately even after only a couple hours of break in.  Noticeably less hardening in upper mids and highs...tighter bass...better soundstage focus...with a better sense of layering within
 the soundstage and at the boundary edges.  Oh and the bass was noticeably tighter.  But the real bottom line which is how I evaluate a change for the better.  More Pace Rhythmn and Timing.
 PRAT...more involving.  Just more of a sense of energy and flow.  Believe it or not. Were only talking 4" of cable here.  The difference was at least as big a change as switching the first one I mention for the hard adaptor.  In both cases the differences were larger than I anticipated...even with my jadded, persnickety nutso audiophile background.
  
 There are a number of these things I have found out as I have read and fiddled and pursued this hobby.  Honestly just about everything that can possibly affect the sound more than likely may.
  
 In the immortal words of Buckaroo Bonzai. "Whereever you go, there you are!"
  
 FWIW
  
 Happy Listening,
 jgwtriode


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I don't think USB Hub should make any difference to the sound, but if possible, a re-clocker and noise filter will make an audible change.


----------



## DarktoreS

My final combo, Micro IDSD + Itube + iCan SE + iRack with my ATH R70x is realy perfect !


----------



## jgwtriode

darktores said:


> My final combo, Micro IDSD + Itube + iCan SE + iRack with my ATH R70x is realy perfect !


 
 Very  nice looking setup congrats...they do look amazing together in that rack!
  
 Happy Listening,
 jgwtriode


----------



## CFGamescape

darktores said:


> My final combo, Micro IDSD + Itube + iCan SE + iRack with my ATH R70x is realy perfect !


 
 Nice! How do you like the iTube with the iCAN SE? I have everything you have but the iTube.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I am at a loss to figure out if the iTube can be used with the Micro to introduce some tube goodness into the sound signature for when I want that.


----------



## DarktoreS

cfgamescape said:


> Nice! How do you like the iTube with the iCAN SE? I have everything you have but the iTube.


 
  
  
 The iTube strengthens the iCan SE, I would almost say that the IDSD is good enough to spend iCan. The soundstage is denser and better mastered in high frequencies with the iTube. I have long compared the IDSD vs IDSD + iCan, then the IDSD vs iTube + iCan.  I think this puts performance at the highest level. But I could content myself with the IDSD only, it is only because I have found very affordable opportunity that I bought the iCan + iTube. The iRack being almost essential once left my madness for this set iFi-Audio ...


----------



## subwoof3r

Personally I will stay with my iDSD + HD800 (+ Forza Noir Hybrid HPC) for a while, very satisfied with for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But once I will be enough bored, I think I will get iTube. I don't think iCan SE should brings any benefits with the HD800 anyway which will stay my can for many years to come.


----------



## bflat

How do you configure just iDSD and iTube for listening through headphones? Is it even possible? If it requires both iCan and iTube, there are a lot of tremendous amp options at the price.


----------



## Brooko

bflat said:


> How do you configure just iDSD and iTube for listening through headphones? Is it even possible? If it requires both iCan and iTube, there are a lot of tremendous amp options at the price.


 
  
 I don't think you can - not without having another amp - as the iTube is effectively a tube buffer.  I borrowed one off the agent in NZ for a couple of weeks, and the iTube is really for a speaker system rather than headphones.  And at some stage I may get one for my small desktop set-up - it was really good.


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> I am at a loss to figure out if the iTube can be used with the Micro to introduce some tube goodness into the sound signature for when I want that.


 
  
 Imo, it definitely does. I used the micro with an external amp for months before adding the iTube. The sound was great before but, combined with the iTube, the combo is among the fullest, least fatiguing sound I've yet heard. Now I have a hard time listening to solid-state only.
  


bflat said:


> How do you configure just iDSD and iTube for listening through headphones? Is it even possible? If it requires both iCan and iTube, there are a lot of tremendous amp options at the price.


 
  
 There's no headphone out on the iTube so you'll need an external amp (like the iCan) after it. I use the Micro's rca out to the iTube then connect it's output to my amp. The Micro can be set to direct out or preamp. I use preamp so I can take advantage of the xbass (it, along with 3d, are disabled on direct output).


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

bflat said:


> How do you configure just iDSD and iTube for listening through headphones? Is it even possible? If it requires both iCan and iTube, there are a lot of tremendous amp options at the price.


 
@iFi audio
 Is this possible to do this: connect the RCA out from iDSD Micro to iTube, then connect iTube's RCA out to iDSD Micro's headphone in? That would drastically reduce the price for someone who already has the iDSD and would like to enjoy the iTube first without spending extra for the iCAN SE (even though it's totally worth it IMO)


----------



## technobear

williamleonhart said:


> bflat said:
> 
> 
> > How do you configure just iDSD and iTube for listening through headphones? Is it even possible? If it requires both iCan and iTube, there are a lot of tremendous amp options at the price.
> ...




No that definitely isn't possible. We had a conversation a page or so back about the 3.5mm input. Anything that goes in there comes out the RCA's. You might damage your iTUBE trying that.

Some folks say that iTUBE makes a huge difference. Others, like me, say they can't hear a difference between iCAN and iTUBE+iCAN. Try to get an audition to see if it works for you. The iCAN is a very good amp.

The micro iCAN is an overachiever at the price. The iTUBE costs more and does less. I sold mine.


----------



## iFi audio

williamleonhart said:


> @iFi audio
> Is this possible to do this: connect the RCA out from iDSD Micro to iTube, then connect iTube's RCA out to iDSD Micro's headphone in? That would drastically reduce the price for someone who already has the iDSD and would like to enjoy the iTube first without spending extra for the iCAN SE (even though it's totally worth it IMO)


 
  
 Hi,
  
 As Techno said, asked by someone else before and no, not possible. But nice try - we like your thinking.
  
 The micro iDSD + iCAN SE for desktop listening is our recommendation. We exhibit with the iTUBE because we want a 'money no object' setup but as always, try for yourself as some like tubes, some dont. It's a subjective thing.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Thanks for all the answers. It's a little bit of a waste for me, as I think the amplifier section in the iDSD Micro is way too powerful for an unit that is practically "a DAC, that also has an amp".


----------



## iFi audio

williamleonhart said:


> Thanks for all the answers. It's a little bit of a waste for me, as I think the amplifier section in the iDSD Micro is way too powerful for an unit that is practically "a DAC, that also has an amp".


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Normally people say DAC amps do not have 'enough power' so we take it as a compliment for the micro iDSD in case anyone doubted the output! 
  
 Though having said this you can set 250mW > 4,000mW because:
  
 Eco = 250mW
 Normal = 750mW
 Turbo = 4,000mW
  
 You make the power selection and then use iEMatch to suit.
  
 So IE-800 > HE-6 are usable.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

That was definitely a compliment! I went to a meet and to everyone 's surprise my iDsd Mic could drive the he6 while a lot of other DESKTOP amp couldn't. For all of my headphones I used eco mode, though I preferred to use the idsd as a dac to feed my LD I+ and my speaker system


----------



## iFi audio

williamleonhart said:


> That was definitely a compliment! I went to a meet and to everyone 's surprise my iDsd Mic could drive the he6 while a lot of other DESKTOP amp couldn't. For all of my headphones I used eco mode, though I preferred to use the idsd as a dac to feed my LD I+ and my speaker system


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Thanks for that. We do really appreciate your comments and those by others. Sometimes our sensitive-soul R&D engineers need to break out the Kleenex (they dont get out much) - when the micro iDSD first came out were challenged on DSD512 and the 4,000mW both being 'fake.'
  
 Customers who have known us longer from the expensive AMR stuff dont doubt. They just know! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So thanks for the comment and will goes down well on a Friday at the boozer.


----------



## DarktoreS

With my combo which includes the iTube, I find it quite hot .... I imagine that the equipment is designed for it, but still I'm on the edge of not being able to touch


----------



## iFi audio

darktores said:


> With my combo which includes the iTube, I find it quite hot .... I imagine that the equipment is designed for it, but still I'm on the edge of not being able to touch


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Tubes run hot, they are Class A.
  
 And the chassis is used as a heatsink to dissipate.


----------



## cbl117

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> As Techno said, asked by someone else before and no, not possible. But nice try - we like your thinking.
> 
> The micro iDSD + iCAN SE for desktop listening is our recommendation. We exhibit with the iTUBE because we want a 'money no object' setup but as always, try for yourself as some like tubes, some dont. It's a subjective thing.


 

 How much of an improvement is there when you bypass the iDSD amp and use the iCAN SE stacked with the iDSD?


----------



## cbl117

technobear said:


> Better sound usually requires full class A operation and that is not compatible with long battery life unless the device is designed only to drive very sensitive IEMs which require very little power.


 

 Would adding an iCAN SE achieve a noticable bump in performance?  I find the iDSD amp to be a bit grainy at times.


----------



## technobear

cbl117 said:


> Would adding an iCAN SE achieve a noticable bump in performance?




Yes.


----------



## Maxpain

I recentely started to use the micro on battery mode instead of usb powering.
  
 If I shut down my computer and plug it off so there is no power going through the usb of the motherboard...and activate the micro it will go in to battery power mode. If I play music from my computer and for some reason I have to reboot..will the micro run on usb power mode? or it will continew to run on battery?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## cbl117

technobear said:


> Yes.


 

 Care to elaborate?


----------



## Sonic Defender

I have read that the idea that the TubeState sounds tube like is just marketing BS. I am curious if anybody here can confirm that the iCAN SE actually does have a little of the tube like sound or is it so subtle that you could also explain it by expectation?


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> I have read that the idea that the TubeState sounds tube like is just marketing BS. I am curious if anybody here can confirm that the iCAN SE actually does have a little of the tube like sound or is it so subtle that you could also explain it by expectation?


 
  
 Here's what iFi replied to me in post# 5524 of this thread:
  
_We find that with the Tubestate build into iCAN SE, it delivers a very large chunk of 'Tube Magic' in itself and even our tube loving chief designer (who has a Nixie clock on his Android Phone - with tubes for numbers) does not use a iTube with the iCAN SE. He does use the iTube in his Speaker setup, which is more what the iTube was designed for (3D Matrix for speakers, optional preamp function). Some of the senior staff still hold onto the iTube with the iCAN SE. Neither are right nor wrong._
  
_So try the different combinations and decide for yourself._


----------



## Sonic Defender

gr8soundz said:


> Here's what iFi replied to me in post# 5524 of this thread:
> 
> _We find that with the Tubestate build into iCAN SE, it delivers a very large chunk of 'Tube Magic' in itself and even our tube loving chief designer (who has a Nixie clock on his Android Phone - with tubes for numbers) does not use a iTube with the iCAN SE. He does use the iTube in his Speaker setup, which is more what the iTube was designed for (3D Matrix for speakers, optional preamp function). Some of the senior staff still hold onto the iTube with the iCAN SE. Neither are right nor wrong._
> 
> _So try the different combinations and decide for yourself._


 
 Thanks, I had just read a review from a head-fier I know is pretty experienced who felt that iFi calling the TubeState as sounding tube like was complete rubbish, just marketing BS, which is of course completely possible.


----------



## canali

just listening to tidal hifi on both the micro and the mojo.
 (want to sell one as i also have the df red and mad ear+hd tube amp)
  
 guess i don't have golden ears, as i can't really (not now anyway) determine that big a diff between the 2.
 have the mercury and ipurifer 2 hooked into it from my laptop.
 must admit, love the 3D and bass boost of the micro...nice ways to enhance the sound.


----------



## bflat

canali said:


> just listening to tidal hifi on both the micro and the mojo.
> (want to sell one as i also have the df red and mad ear+hd tube amp)
> 
> guess i don't have golden ears, as i can't really (not now anyway) determine that big a diff between the 2.
> ...


 

 Excellent! Trust your ears. Mojo will sell fast and close to what you paid for it. I don't miss mine at all. To my ears, Mojo has a bit more separation and bite to the highs but that's not something everybody wants. I tend to like more organic, and not analytical presentation and the iDSD to me is more organic than Mojo. Beyond that, I absolutely hated the stupid glowing balls and digital stepped volume control.


----------



## EVOLVIST

howdy said:


> That all depends on you. You're gonna have to buy one and find out. I think this and the Mojo are the Best AMP/DACs (portable) that there are right now IMO. I have a slight preference for this over the Mojo though.




Interestingly enough, I auditioned the Chord DAVE against my iDSD micro, using the exact same gear in my sig. What's not in my sig, is that I always plug into the classic PS Audio, P300 balanced AC regenerator.

Anyway, for PCM I thought the DAVE and the iDSD micro were the same. The salesman had to admit it, too. Except with the iDSD micro I had to use my SPL Auditor to grab that much width and depth from the iFi product. With the DAVE all I had to do was plug in direct to its headphone jack.

For DSD audio I won't go into that here; I'm going to post my impressions in the Chord DAVE thread. Nevertheless, we're talking about for PCM a $1200 DAC & amp combo vs. an all-in-one solution for $13k+.

The iDSD micro still remains a minor miracle.


----------



## cbl117

evolvist said:


> Interestingly enough, I auditioned the Chord DAVE against my iDSD micro, using the exact same gear in my sig. What's not in my sig, is that I always plug into the classic PS Audio, P300 balanced AC regenerator.
> 
> Anyway, for PCM I thought the DAVE and the iDSD micro were the same. The salesman had to admit it, too. Except with the iDSD micro I had to use my SPL Auditor to grab that much width and depth from the iFi product. With the DAVE all I had to do was plug in direct to its headphone jack.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any experience using a separate amp with the iDSD?  Edit:  I see that SPL Auditor is an amp.


----------



## Sonic Defender

evolvist said:


> The iDSD micro still remains a minor miracle.


 
 I have to admit, I agree, the Micro is very surprising indeed.


----------



## canali

bflat said:


> Excellent! Trust your ears. Mojo will sell fast and close to what you paid for it. I don't miss mine at all. To my ears, Mojo has a bit more separation and bite to the highs but that's not something everybody wants. I tend to like more organic, and not analytical presentation and the iDSD to me is more organic than Mojo. Beyond that, I absolutely hated the stupid glowing balls and digital stepped volume control.




Funny how audio is so often subjective, as I've read the same sound sig criticism (analytic, a bit dry)... But it was levelled at the micro vs the 'warmer sounding' mojo...they're both top end units, more similar than not, imo... I don't have golden ears, however.

I guess the bottom line is whatever device best makes you smile and floats your boat is all that matters in the end...to this point I was also listening to some Van Halen with the (cheaper priced) dragonfly red, iPod Touch 6 and (newly arrived) flc 8s earphones... and that combo just kicked ass!

More and more I'm starting to appreciate how important is the musical Source quality-- garbage in garbage out right. You can have the best headphones, the best DAC/amp, whatever...but if music played is a bad recording, not so well mastered, etc, then what does it matter? you can't put lipstick on a pig (thanks Steve Hoffman forums).


----------



## jgwtriode

Its amazing to me how the IDSD micro scales.  I have put in much better diy usb cables, a reclocker, and a PCI-E dedicated USB port from Paul Pang!  It improved substantially each time.
 And it works incredibly well on DSD files.  I have bought some of the Blue Coast stuff.  Listing to their 11.2MHz stuff is unbelievable.
  
 Happy listening,
  
 jgwtriode


----------



## bflat

canali said:


> Funny how audio is so often subjective, as I've read the same sound sig criticism (analytic, a bit dry)... But it was levelled at the micro vs the 'warmer sounding' mojo...they're both top end units, more similar than not, imo... I don't have golden ears, however.


 
  
 I agree on subjectivity. However, there is a limit to that and I would be interested to know what universe people are thinking that the iDSD is analytical and dry. Mojo being "warm" is way overblown imho. Rob Watts himself will say that all Chord products are meant to be perfectly neutral to what the original soundtrack is suppose to sound like.
  
 I should note my impression is after 200+ hours of burn in.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

jgwtriode said:


> Its amazing to me how the IDSD micro scales.  I have put in much better diy usb cables, a reclocker, and *a PCI-E dedicated USB port from Paul Pang*!  It improved substantially each time.
> And it works incredibly well on DSD files.  I have bought some of the Blue Coast stuff.  Listing to their 11.2MHz stuff is unbelievable.
> 
> Happy listening,
> ...


 
 Here's how it went for me:
 - Triggered
 - Googles "Paul Pang"
 - Enters the website
 - Looks at the price
 - Cries internally
 - Goes back to write this schiit post


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

bflat said:


> I agree on subjectivity. However, there is a limit to that and I would be interested to know what universe people are thinking that the iDSD is analytical and dry. Mojo being "warm" is way overblown imho. Rob Watts himself will say that all Chord products are meant to be perfectly neutral to what the original soundtrack is suppose to sound like.
> 
> I should note my impression is after 200+ hours of burn in.


 
 Well to me the iDSD sound a bit analytical. Just a bit and not dry or artificial, though. It's not colored, but all the while very organic and natural. To me the iDSD has one of the best resolution on the high ranges, in comparison with other dac/amps under $1000.


----------



## technobear

cbl117 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.
> ...




I have done many times. It's all here on Head-Fi.

You might enjoy this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-thanks-to-meze-you-guys-are-great-things-are-a-rockin


----------



## musikaladin

sonic defender said:


> I have read that the idea that the TubeState sounds tube like is just marketing BS. I am curious if anybody here can confirm that the iCAN SE actually does have a little of the tube like sound or is it so subtle that you could also explain it by expectation?


 

 A lot of what people perceive being "typical tube sound" is owed to tansformers in the signal path (as such, just to achive exactly this, some amp companies put transformers even into a solid state signal path. check out the difference between JR Capri 1 and Capri 2). OTL tube amps do not have that transformer sound signature. Still, tubes are said to produce more even harmonics than transistor amps and by such sound more natural... but I would say this is history.  Modern well designed tube amps as well as transistor based amps have very very little distortion anyway; and the less, the more similar they sound... if(!) the tube amp is ideally matched to the headphone impedance wise. So this last point might be the biggest difference. The damping factor. Here tube amps react more sensitive on the matching. And sometimes, with tube amps more than with transistor amps, it leads to a emphasis on bass that sounds good on otherwise too thinly sounding cans.... but this is a compensation of mistakes, which from my point of view should not be the way (I also do not like to equalize).


----------



## RedJohn456

musikaladin said:


> A lot of what people perceive being "typical tube sound" is owed to tansformers in the signal path (as such, just to achive exactly this, some amp companies put transformers even into a solid state signal path. check out the difference between JR Capri 1 and Capri 2). OTL tube amps do not have that transformer sound signature. Still, tubes are said to produce more even harmonics than transistor amps and by such sound more natural... but I would say this is history.  Modern well designed tube amps as well as transistor based amps have very very little distortion anyway; and the less, the more similar they sound... if(!) the tube amp is ideally matched to the headphone impedance wise. So this last point might be the biggest difference. The damping factor. Here tube amps react more sensitive on the matching. And sometimes, with tube amps more than with transistor amps, it leads to a emphasis on bass that sounds good on otherwise too thinly sounding cans.... but this is a compensation of mistakes, which from my point of view should not be the way (I also do not like to equalize).


 

 yeah i was in for a shock when i got my tube amp, sounded nothing like I had read about tube amps. It was actually just as neutral and resolving, if not more so, than my solid state amps. Turns out I had completely wrong idea about tubes to begin with :/  Could have saved myself a lot of money if I had known before hand.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Well I think that it's wrong to come to a generalization about tube amps because the whole point of tube was that you can change the sound. And it's true some tube amps, no matter what tubes they're having, doesn't sound quite "tubey" because the signal is almost as clean and un-colored as transformer amp, Schiit's being the major example. But I think that defeats the whole point of tube amps.


----------



## Sonic Defender

> ... But I think that defeats the whole point of tube amps.


 
 I agree, I have just now purchased a, what I hope is lovely sounding La Figaro 339, the newest version with some decent tubes. I want to have a different sound signature from solid state as an option. If a tube amp is going to sound mostly like a SS amp, but with new issues and quirks, I say why bother? I also know what you mean RedJohn456, I purchased a new first gen Valhalla several years ago now and it was a nice sounding amp, but I was secretly hoping for some tube warmth. I shouldn't have as I believe Schiit was very clear in their marketing material saying not to expect warm tube sound so I deluded myself.
  
 The La Figaro is supposed to unapologetically sound unique and very musical so I'm stoked. My iDSD Micro will be my DAC and also used as it is intended when I want my SS fix. Good to have two very different amps I think.


----------



## technobear

gfresh404 said:


> Hey I realize this post is from a year ago but I currently own an iFi Micro, and I was wondering, how did it pair with your Beyerdynamic DT 880's? Which it looks like you no longer have haha


----------



## Gfresh404

lorywiv said:


> I am very happy with the combo. you reference. I run digital cozx. from DX90 --> iDSD with my HD600 or Beyer DT880's (600 Ohm) and the DX90 solo when I want maximum portability or with very low-impedance IEM's. Lot's of great options with this gear. Enjoy whatever you decide.


 
  
 Hey I realize this post is from a year ago but I currently own an iFi Micro, and I was wondering, how did it pair with your Beyerdynamic DT 880's? Which it looks like you no longer have haha


----------



## Gfresh404

technobear said:


>


 
 I'm special


----------



## technobear

gfresh404 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...




And long may you remain so...who wants to be ordinary?


----------



## Sonic Defender

technobear said:


> And long may you remain so...who wants to be ordinary?


 
 People who don't wish to be special.


----------



## ruddypulido

Hey Guys...
  
 What are the best ways to hook the micro iDSD to my integrated amplifier ( PM6004 ) and use it like a desktop amp ?! I firstly thought of rca tape out to 3.5mm in on the iDSD.
  
 I am planning to use them to drive a LCD-2 while listening to some vinyls. Would it be a good match ? 
  
 I know it is not a desktop amp, but It would be good to have the option to take it from the desk and take with me on a trip with my iPhone.
  
  
 Thanks,
 Ruddy


----------



## bflat

ruddypulido said:


> Hey Guys...
> 
> What are the best ways to hook the micro iDSD to my integrated amplifier ( PM6004 ) and use it like a desktop amp ?! I firstly thought of rca tape out to 3.5mm in on the iDSD.
> 
> ...


 

 The 3.5mm input is your only option to connect your audio out from the integrated amp to the iDSD. It's got plenty of power to drive the LCD-2, but I'll let others comment on how the pairing goes.


----------



## Sonic Defender

ruddypulido said:


> Hey Guys...
> 
> What are the best ways to hook the micro iDSD to my integrated amplifier ( PM6004 ) and use it like a desktop amp ?! I firstly thought of rca tape out to 3.5mm in on the iDSD.
> 
> ...


 
 The Micro drives my LCD2F very well, I like the pairing quite a bit actually. I don't know anything about the output from the iPhone to the Micro as I'm not an Apple phone user myself.


----------



## chillaxing

ruddypulido said:


> Hey Guys...
> 
> What are the best ways to hook the micro iDSD to my integrated amplifier ( PM6004 ) and use it like a desktop amp ?! I firstly thought of rca tape out to 3.5mm in on the iDSD.
> 
> ...




Yup that would be your best bet. Rca to a 3.5 jack to the micro's 3.5 in. Just to let you know that doing this way you won't be using the micro's DAC 

I also love my lcd2.2 with the micro. As a matter of fact I like the micro with every HP and iem I have , beside my e18 which I use for a portable.

The iPhone is a great source. Doesn't have a problem playing any music app that is compatible with ios and it doesn't upsample anything. All you need is a cck adapter and your good to go.


----------



## chillaxing

Dp


----------



## ruddypulido

sonic defender said:


> The Micro drives my LCD2F very well, I like the pairing quite a bit actually. I don't know anything about the output from the iPhone to the Micro as I'm not an Apple phone user myself.


 
  
  


chillaxing said:


> Yup that would be your best bet. Rca to a 3.5 jack to the micro's 3.5 in.
> 
> I also love my lcd2.2 with the micro. As a matter of fact I like the micro with every HP and iem I have
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you Guys !!
  
 Just one more question !
  
 Will I be able to charge the unit while listening through the 3,5mm input ? And, going ths route ( RCA to 3.5mm ), will I be losing something in quality ?!
  
 Oh, and by cck do you mean the lightning yo usb adapter like these one ? http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter


----------



## chillaxing

ruddypulido said:


> Thank you Guys !!
> 
> Just one more question !
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 You would be losing some quality.  You won't being using the DAC part on the micro if you go through the 3.5 input.
  
  
 Yes that is the CCK adapter.  
  
 I never use the 3.5 input, but I would think you won't have a problem charging while using it.  Might have to go with a 2 amp or higher wall charging and you should be good.


----------



## WindyCityCy

ruddypulido said:


> Hey Guys...
> 
> What are the best ways to hook the micro iDSD to my integrated amplifier ( PM6004 ) and use it like a desktop amp ?! I firstly thought of rca tape out to 3.5mm in on the iDSD.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the LCD-2.1 and they sound really great with the Micro iDSD.  I spent about 2 hours listening to that pair this past Saturday.


----------



## LoryWiv

gfresh404 said:


> Hey I realize this post is from a year ago but I currently own an iFi Micro, and I was wondering, how did it pair with your Beyerdynamic DT 880's? Which it looks like you no longer have haha


 

 I thought it was little too bright and fatiguing as a combination...YMMV.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Another 2 hours w micro dsd and audeze lcd2.1 tonight. Really great combo. ATB movin melodies is especially enjoyable.


----------



## bflat

Interesting experience with the iDSD,
  
 My original configuration was USB out of my Apple Thunderbolt display with an Audioquest Carbon USB cable to a Schiit Wyrd to the blue USB cable that came with the IDSD. All my prior comments and impressions were based on that.
  
 I did not realize that iDSD has iPurifer built in so yesterday I connected directly from Mac to iDSD with just the blue cable. I just wanted to reduce the clutter on my desk. The resulting sound was harsh treble and a bit compressed mid. The glaring treble was very noticeable (maybe +10% more harsh). After a process of elimination with my original configuration, it was clear that the blue USB cable by itself caused the issue.
  
 I now have my Audioquest Carbon USB cable direct from Mac to one of the adapters that came with iDSD. This resolved the harsh treble. In my original chain, the Wyrd seems to have buffered whatever issue the blue cable caused. I am actually really surprised by how much difference the USB cable made. Prior to this I thought I overpaid for the Carbon USB cable since I thought "bits are bits". I am convinced now that even digital cables matter. On the other hand, I can't detect any difference is sound with or without the Wyrd.
  
 Something for folks to consider but YMMV since the source of the "issue" may be my Mac USB port.


----------



## Aegruin

bflat said:


> Interesting experience with the iDSD,
> 
> My original configuration was USB out of my Apple Thunderbolt display with an Audioquest Carbon USB cable to a Schiit Wyrd to the blue USB cable that came with the IDSD. All my prior comments and impressions were based on that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Everyone thinks "bits are bits", and they are pretty right about it. But the thing is 5V DC, EMI and RFI, interferes with the data side that carries bits. Even dividing 5V+/Ground and Data+/- to two separate USB cable changes everything.


----------



## subwoof3r

Just to clarify things, is the built-in iPurifier from iDSD working only via battery mode ? or USB mode ? or both world ?
 Cheers'


----------



## Aegruin

subwoof3r said:


> Just to clarify things, is the built-in iPurifier from iDSD working only via battery mode ? or USB mode ? or both world ?
> Cheers'


 
 iPurifier is a EMI thingy. It should be working in both ways because its main job is with the data section(EMI removing) or it would be very pointless. Both ways. 100%.


----------



## Sonic Defender

bflat said:


> Interesting experience with the iDSD,
> 
> My original configuration was USB out of my Apple Thunderbolt display with an Audioquest Carbon USB cable to a Schiit Wyrd to the blue USB cable that came with the IDSD. All my prior comments and impressions were based on that.
> 
> ...


 
 What are the odds that a cable makes a difference when a device such as the Wyrd doesn't? I suspect you already know this, but even the time of day we listen to music has a significant effect on our perception so if you are listening at different times, or when you are tired versus alert that might explain a 10% perceived difference you are attributing to cables. Just an alternative explanation to consider.


----------



## bflat

sonic defender said:


> What are the odds that a cable makes a difference when a device such as the Wyrd doesn't? I suspect you already know this, but even the time of day we listen to music has a significant effect on our perception so if you are listening at different times, or when you are tired versus alert that might explain a 10% perceived difference you are attributing to cables. Just an alternative explanation to consider.


 
 yes, I considered that and swapped back and forth to confirm. The idea to swap cables came up in the middle of listening to Porcupine Tree so I paused and made the change, then resumed. That is when I was immediately hit with the harsh treble.
  
 I see my original post was ambiguous so let me clarify:
  
 (1) Mac -> Carbon cable -> Wyrd -> Blue cable -> iDSD = good sound
 (2) Mac -> Blue Cable -> iDSD = harsh treble
 (3) Mac -> Carbon cable-> iDSD = good sound and indistinguishable from (1)
  
 Conclusion - no need for me to complicate my chain in configuration (1). I suppose I could substitute a cheap USB cable in (1) and try that out, but unfortunately I don't have a USB B cable other than the Carbon. However, I think we can assume Wyrd would be fine without the Carbon cable.
  
 This comparison was all done in the space of 30 min or so. Not really A/B blind comparison but to confirm, I have a set of 5 tracks that I use for evaluating all audio components so know the tracks extremely well. My bias before all this is that the cables would not make any difference given the fact that iDSD has a built in iPurifier so I think that qualifies for "blind". In fact I really wished the blue cable made no difference because I was hoping to sell my Carbon cable due to my "bits are bits" comment.
  
 It's certainly subjective and curious what others have experienced.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I think the ipurifier 2 does everything the wyrd does and more. Can't bring myself to buy an expensive cable yet. So far I'm sticking with the Dell usb cable that comes with their monitors


----------



## bflat

LOL, forgot the ask the one question I had in mind before I got sidetracked with the Wyrd/cable experiment:
  
 Does anyone have a suggested OTG cable that will fit inside the iDSD USB port and ends in a micro USB connector? I'm curious to try my Onkyo DP-X1 with the iDSD.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> I think the ipurifier 2 does everything the wyrd does and more. Can't bring myself to buy an expensive cable yet. So far I'm sticking with the Dell usb cable that comes with their monitors


 
 Same here. I just took a printer USB cable and hooked it to my M51 DAC and never gave it a second thought.


----------



## tf1216

This article beings to explain why a digital cable can effect the sound.
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/draft#TDOLig5f4FLQydcB.97


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I've not read that article yet but from my very limited knowledge it's the timing that matters the most and normal USB cables tend to ruin that


----------



## Amoy Utot

bflat said:


> LOL, forgot the ask the one question I had in mind before I got sidetracked with the Wyrd/cable experiment:
> 
> Does anyone have a suggested OTG cable that will fit inside the iDSD USB port and ends in a micro USB connector? I'm curious to try my Onkyo DP-X1 with the iDSD.
> 
> Thanks


 

 Any good quality OTG cable will do, but I build mine just to shorten the wires.

 DP-X1 and iDSD


----------



## Sonic Defender

tf1216 said:


> This article beings to explain why a digital cable can effect the sound.
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/draft#TDOLig5f4FLQydcB.97


 
 I read that article, and beyond the fact that the contributing authors seem to have a dog in the hunt as they say, there was no evidence provided that any of these proposed measureable differences are audible. I am not saying I know as a fact there is no possible way that a cable can influence the sound; however I'm saying the above article is not in any way evidence either.


----------



## bms44974

tf1216 said:


> This article beings to explain why a digital cable can effect the sound.
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/draft#TDOLig5f4FLQydcB.97


 

 Fascinating read! TFS... Brian
  
 Do you have a link for the "to be continued..." article?


----------



## tf1216

http://www.audiostream.com/content/theres-no-such-thing-digital-conversation-charles-hansen-gordon-rankin-and-steve-silberman-p#owUaq2DWmz3URi2D.97


----------



## Korabeu

dond said:


> Who else has this 5 seconds status time? I never experienced this with my iDSD with any firmware version.
> I'm on Mac, isn't your configuration the root cause?


 
  
  
 I do, and it's not 5 seconds, it's more like 3 seconds for me (PC, not MAC).
  
 It manifests both in foobar2000 and youtube.
  
*The device doesn't have to wait those 15 seconds to go into idle to have these problems.*
  
 1.Playing the first track after opening foobar2000 ---> 3 seconds delay (100% occurence).
 2.Unpausing a track in foobar2000 after 10-15 seconds (yes, it varies) and no other audio activity ---> 3 seconds delay (100% occurence).
 3.Sometimes switching _immediately_ from playing youtube to foobar2000 ---> 3 seconds delay (couldn't detect a pattern yet, sometimes it's working as it should aka no pause).
 4.Playing a youtube video, pausing it, waiting for 5-7 seconds, opening a new video ---> 1 to 3 seconds delay on that new video (100% occurence).
  
 It's *incredibly annoying*, did anyone find a fix for this?
  
  
 N.B.
  
*The device doesn't have to wait those 15 seconds to go into idle to have these problems.*


----------



## DarktoreS

flash your IDSD micro on 5.2B limoncello firmware... your problem is end !


----------



## subwoof3r

korabeu said:


> I do, and it's not 5 seconds, it's more like 3 seconds for me (PC, not MAC).
> 
> It manifests both in foobar2000 and youtube.
> 
> ...


 
  Glad to see I'm not alone also.
 I already tried to discuss via a ticket of this problem with iFi technical support team, and it's like I was alone in this case.
 Definitely, the problem is firmware related, as 5.10 is lowering this delay to 2-3 seconds for me (5.20 is more like 4-5 seconds).
 Anyway, I had the exact same issue with my previous iDAC2 which I returned due to this, and with the iDSD, it's the same (or even more) problem. I think I will have to deal with it then, but yeah, losing some seconds when watching youtube, and switching to foobar to lose again seconds is really annoying, but something you should consider if interested to buy the iDSD, unless it will be fixed with a new firmware.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


darktores said:


> flash your IDSD micro on 5.2B limoncello firmware... your problem is end !


 
  
 Already tried that "tweak", not working... unfortunately.
 Exact same problem as 5.20.


----------



## bms44974

I don't have iDSD, but have noticed this phenomenon with my iDAC. Could it have something to do with the buffer size?


----------



## gr8soundz

bms44974 said:


> I don't have iDSD, but have noticed this phenomenon with my iDAC. Could it have something to do with the buffer size?


 
  
 I don't think so. Have all buffers set to max size and my Micro also does the same thing. Think it only happens with any of the v5.2 firmwares. May have to revert to 5.1 to eliminate the problem but don't want to give up the improvement in sound quality. Otherwise, we'll have to wait and see if iFi cures the problem with the next firmware update.


----------



## Korabeu

gr8soundz said:


> Think it only happens with any of the v5.2 firmwares. May have to revert to 5.1 to eliminate the problem but don't want to give up the improvement in sound quality. Otherwise, we'll have to wait and see if iFi cures the problem with the next firmware update.


 
  
 You know as well as I do that reverting to an older* *firmware is *not* a solution, at least not a just/fair one.
*I don't think I have to explain why.*
  
 iFi replied here to another user a few posts back in a rather unkind & less promising manner.
 A few posts after that a somewhat different response was written, here.
  
 I'm quite positive you're not alone in seeing this a *MAJOR* flaw in this product's functionality.
  
  


subwoof3r said:


> Anyway, I had the exact same issue with my previous iDAC2 which I returned due to this, and with the iDSD, it's the same (or even more) problem.


 
  
 I'm still hoping they will revert from this initial way of thinking and fix this issue in the next firmware.
 I should also add that I won't keep this hope indefinitely.
*Quite the contrary.*
  
 Until then, I will repeat & support what the first user who reported this issue said:
  


> *Until this is fixed* *I cannot recommend the iFi Micro iDSD. *


----------



## iFi audio

subwoof3r said:


> Already tried that "tweak", not working... unfortunately.
> Exact same problem as 5.20.


 
  
 As you have done this then you have eliminated the firmware as the cause. Because if the problem persists with firmware 5.XB and was present with an iDAC2 then it is DEFINITELY NOT firmware related.
  
 The issue would be in the PC setup. We use both iDAC2 micro and iDSD micro with youtube etc. and it does not take 3 - 5 seconds before music plays. 
  
 The first appx. 0.1 to 0.3 seconds may be cut off if the track playing forces a sample rate change, as the iDSD micro cannot adapt 'instantly.'
  
 For J-River simple set "play silence for hardware synchronisation" to on. 
  
 For windows own sound system (or Mac's own sound system simply set default sample rate to match that of audio normally playing.)
  
 An issue can happen if system sounds are 48khz sample rate files and Audio is 44.1kHz. Then the DAC constantly switches sample rates. Best disable system sounds under this condition.
  
 Please don't forget the PC and its software needs configuring too, not just the micro iDSD.


----------



## gr8soundz

korabeu said:


> You know as well as I do that reverting to an older* *firmware is *not* a solution, at least not a just/fair one.
> 
> I'm quite positive you're not alone in seeing this a *MAJOR* flaw in this product's functionality.


 
  
 Normally, I'd agree but not this time. I have more than a few of iFi's products and have even been critical of them at times.
  
 The Micro's functionality was already very good but iFi kept pushing to improve it. They even added A and B versions for those of us who requested a way to prevent battery drain from our phones on the go. The last two updates also improved audio quality.
  
 I thought v5.1 would be final but was surprised to see them release v5.2 anyway. Compare this to other manufacturers (this means you A&K) who can't be bothered to fix any issues with their products.
  
*V**5.2 was optional (meaning not required)*. My micro was working perfectly but I chose to try the update knowing full well I could revert back to 5.1 if I didn't like it. I'm still on 5.2. For me, the improved audio is worth a few seconds of harmless silence (you should try Bug Head for comparison). Perhaps iFi wasn't able to accomplish that improvement without the silence (the Micro's design is already over 2 years old) but, again, it was optional. *Claiming a product is severely flawed because you choose NOT to use the most capable firmware for yours makes little sense.*
  
 Thought we might see v5.3 by now but, after some of the feedback they got, suspect iFi re-directed their efforts toward new products (just like every other company). The iDSD Micro was crowd-designed and they seemed more than willing to continue improving it. But some users only look at the highest number and can't seem to comprehend (imo) what they were trying to do.


----------



## Korabeu

gr8soundz said:


> Normally, I'd agree but not this time. I have more than a few of iFi's products and have even been critical of them at times.



  
 I didn't want to go into this, but since you insist.
 I find it great that you have been critical of iFi when you wished to, I believe myself & the others have the same right.
  
  


gr8soundz said:


> *V**5.2 was optional (meaning not required)*.
> *Claiming a product is severely flawed because you choose NOT to use the most capable firmware for yours makes little sense.*
> *FOR ME*, the improved audio is worth a few seconds of harmless silence.


 
  
 I detected fanboyism & got triggered, especially since you are not (or are you?) working for iFi and telling me what makes sense or not, when it is me who paid for it, not you.
  
*1.* First of all I'm not claiming, I know for a fact that the latest firmware makes this product *less functional**, FOR ME.*
 Apparently I'm not the only one who shares this point of view.
 And *even if I were* there might still be people who haven't bought this product yet and *wouldn't** *if they were to find out that the latest (optional) firmware adds a 3-5-x seconds of silence.
 I know - again not claiming - for a fact that is/would've been true *FOR ME*.
 So it's my bad I didn't find out earlier, I'll give you *just* that.
  
*2.* Where does iFi mention on their website that the latest (5.20) firmware is less capable?
 Do they even mention it's optional? The word "optional" or any of its synonyms don't appear here.
 It makes common sense to assume upgrading/downgrading to any firwmare version IS OPTIONAL.
 Just as it is buying the product in the first place, especially if you find out certain things about its (optional) features.
 I will tell you what is NOT optional *FOR ME*, ditching iFi Micro iDSD if this doesn't get fixed, just like subwoof3r did:
    


subwoof3r said:


> Anyway, I had the exact same issue with my previous iDAC2 which I returned due to this.


 
  
 Getting back on track:
  


gr8soundz said:


> *FOR ME*, the improved audio is worth a few seconds of harmless silence.


 
  
 No, I didn't downgrade the firmware version to 5.10 as suggested by the iFi representative above (no, not you).
 And no, I won't do that because I'm stubborn but because I appreciate the improved audio in 5.20.
 What's the solution for those of us who also appreciate the improved audio in the 5.20 firmware version but can't cope with the dreaded defect/flaw of having to miss the first 3-5-x seconds?
  
*3.* I'll tell you what would make sense.
  
 iFi markets this product as being, and I'm quoting from the product's official website: 
  
It is the only DAC in the world (at any price) to play _True Native_ Octa-DSD512/PCM768/Double DXD.
  
 I think it should be only fair to add to that the following:
  
It is also the only DAC in the world (at any price) to play _3 to 5 seconds of harmless silence for free (via the optional 5.20 firmware update)_.
  
*4.* Oh, let's not forget this:
*Until this is fixed* *I cannot recommend the iFi Micro iDSD. *


----------



## gr8soundz

Dude, that was your 4th post. How long have you even been using the Micro?


----------



## subwoof3r

ifi audio said:


> As you have done this then you have eliminated the firmware as the cause. Because if the problem persists with firmware 5.XB and was present with an iDAC2 then it is DEFINITELY NOT firmware related.
> 
> The issue would be in the PC setup. We use both iDAC2 micro and iDSD micro with youtube etc. and it does not take 3 - 5 seconds before music plays.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your answer, appreciated.
  
 Already tried to disable inboard sound card via BIOS, to let only iDSD but same problem unfortunately.
 I just tried your tweak and set same 44.1kHz frequency to both foobar and windows sound: here also, same problem.
 I don't see what could be wrong into my windows, as I don't install much apps, and Avast is not the cause if it (tried also of course).
  
 Anyway, I'm planning to fully formatting my Windows 10 for a clean fresh install soon (for the fun), so I will update this case. Hopefully it will finally fix this problem definitely.


----------



## JootecFromMars

subwoof3r said:


> Thanks for your answer, appreciated.
> 
> Already tried to disable inboard sound card via BIOS, to let only iDSD but same problem unfortunately.
> I just tried your tweak and set same 44.1kHz frequency to both foobar and windows sound: here also, same problem.
> ...


 
 In foobar are you using asio or wasapi?
  
 And against the idsd device settings in windows have you said the idsd supports dolby digital, dts or anything like that?
  
 I'd also reset the idsd drivers settings back to default from the ifi icon on the status bar.


----------



## Korabeu

subwoof3r said:


> I don't see what could be wrong into my windows, as I don't install much apps, and Avast is not the cause if it (tried also of course).
> 
> Anyway, I'm planning to fully formatting my Windows 10 for a clean fresh install soon (for the fun), so I will update this case. Hopefully it will finally fix this problem definitely.


 
  
 I'm not trying to discourage you but I have 4 PC computers in my home (all running Windows 7 x64) + one Macbook Pro.
  
 One of them has a fresh (drivers only, no apps except foobar2000 + Chrome installed) Windows 7 x64 installed (including all updates).
 The issue persists on all of 'em, no matter what settings I change in BIOS, Windows, drivers, etc.
  
 It's true that I didn't try it on the Macbook, but it wouldn't help me very much since that computer only gathers dust.
 For the sake of completeness I should try it there too.
  
 I hope that Windows 10 clean install will work for you.
 Which in turn could mean that it's a Windows 7 issue that maybe could be isolated and even fixed.
  
 I'm very interested in getting to the bottom of this before the presumptive firmware update fix, because I find it dismally irritating.


----------



## xrodx

Same 3 seconds youtube/foobar silence problem here, started with 5.2 update. Are there any solutions yet?


----------



## utee05

Is there a fix for audio not working on Chrome? I am using my mbp 10.11.6 OSX and do not get any sort of audio using Chrome. It does work with Safari and Firefox. I have tried disabling flash on Chrome but no dice.


----------



## Topspin70

I'm about to get an iDSD and saw the complains about delay before play. Is this an issue for MAC users? I'm wondering if I should reconsider.


----------



## Amoy Utot

topspin70 said:


> I'm about to get an iDSD and saw the complains about delay before play. Is this an issue for MAC users? I'm wondering if I should reconsider.


 

 No problem on my mac. Chrome, safari, Audirvana and Fidelia works just fine,.. no delay.


----------



## Topspin70

amoy utot said:


> No problem on my mac. Chrome, safari, Audirvana and Fidelia works just fine,.. no delay.




Nice to know. Perhaps delay linked to PCs only? I plan to play Roon via my MAC through the idsd.


----------



## rickyleelee

amoy utot said:


> No problem on my mac. Chrome, safari, Audirvana and Fidelia works just fine,.. no delay.




using audinirvana and itunes and yt on my macboook and i dont get the delay. hope you track down the setting. it is annoying to fuddle with computers settings


----------



## DarktoreS

Firmware 5.2B, no problem for me... I have notebook W10 64bit


----------



## bflat

My experience with Windows, especially USB audio, is that the results are different even using the same drivers and applications. The differences are due to whether the installation started with a "fresh" audio driver or if various other USB audio drivers and system updates have been applied. If anyone has a method to "reset" USB audio drivers to install new ones fresh (other than fresh install of Windows), I think that would be very useful.
  
 Unbelievable that Microsoft still doesn't have USB 2.0 audio built into the base OS like Macs do.


----------



## quodjo105

So you guys swear the idsd is better than the chord mojo?..


----------



## Aegruin

quodjo105 said:


> So you guys swear the idsd is better than the chord mojo?..


 
 Sometimes, with some rigs, musicality is more important than the technicality. In those cases Mojo can be better.


----------



## willywill

aegruin said:


> Sometimes, with some rigs, musicality is more important than the technicality. In those cases Mojo can be better.


 
 I think it comes down to portability, it suck to carry around the iDSD compare to my other DAC/AMP, after everyone go to sleep i use the iDSD where i only get up to use the bathroom or get something to drink.


----------



## jbarrentine

topspin70 said:


> I'm about to get an iDSD and saw the complains about delay before play. Is this an issue for MAC users? I'm wondering if I should reconsider.


 
  
 I'm in the same boat and think I'll just get a new dac to combine with my project polaris. Delays like that would annoy me into throwing the thing against the wall.


----------



## Aegruin

BTW I noticed something.
  
 In here, it says;

Normal mode5.5V/1,900 mW @ 16 Ohm>950 mW @ 32 Ohm
  
  
  
 ...but when you open this topic, it says;

Normal mode4.0V/1,000mW@16Ohm> 500 mW @ 32 Ohm8 hours
  
  
  
 ...and when you open their manual, it says;
 Normal (4.0V/1,000 mW @ 16 Ohm)
  
  
@iFi audio which one's true? I'm really confused about this.


----------



## subwoof3r

darktores said:


> Firmware 5.2B, no problem for me... I have notebook W10 64bit


 
*Finally got rid ot this delay problem !!! *




  
 The solution was simple:

Flashing 5.2B firmware
Set 44100 kHz audio format frequency via Windows output sound (for iDSD icon), because I always set 192000 before.
  
 Now, I can enjoy finally no more delay while switching between foobar and youtube, or whatever I try.
 Where it's strange is that I already tried to flash 5.2B, as I said without any luck about this delay problem, but I think combined to the second trick, it did it.
 So in conclusion, it seems the deep sleep mode added into 5.20 is causing the delay problem for some, mainly.
  
 Glad I finally sorted this out! thanks to iFi Team and DarktoreS for the help!
  
  


aegruin said:


> Sometimes, with some rigs, musicality is more important than the technicality.


 
 +1
 I tried my HD800 coupled with a Sabre ES9023, and I found this combinaison to be a bit overall harsh and agressive sometimes. It fatigues listening for long period. Quite the contrary with the iDSD which is more all about musicality, you can listen to it many hours without with pleasure, although it does not lack any details at all. Moreover I'm always leaving the filter standard position, which I prefer so far.
  
 Btw, just received today my Furutech GT2 Pro USB 2.0 cable, and I confirm that switching from stock iDSD cable to the Furutech is a total bargain.
 I think I will have my final setup for a while now : Furutech GT2 Pro USB cable > iDSD > Forza Noir Hybrid HPC cable > HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Cheers'


----------



## gr8soundz

aegruin said:


> BTW I noticed something.
> 
> In here, it says;
> 
> ...


 
  
 I noticed something very similar in the iCan Pro thread. I agree it makes no sense having specs all over the place.
  
 Check out this post and the one after it where iFi explains how they measure:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread/1365#post_12790893


----------



## Aegruin

gr8soundz said:


> I noticed something very similar in the iCan Pro thread. I agree it makes no sense having specs all over the place.
> 
> Check out this post and the one after it where iFi explains how they measure:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread/1365#post_12790893


 
 Hmm... But in that thread ohms are not specified but this time there are ohm values. If something gives 1.000mWs at 16 Ohm, it always gives that. Probably one of those are typo. Let's see.


----------



## Topspin70

jbarrentine said:


> I'm in the same boat and think I'll just get a new dac to combine with my project polaris. Delays like that would annoy me into throwing the thing against the wall.




From the helpful responses it seems it isn't an issue for everyone. Which is great. And @subwoof3r seemed to have solved it.


----------



## chillaxing

.


----------



## Korabeu

> Originally Posted by *chillaxing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> can't seem to find it, can someone put up the link for 5.2b update?


 
  
Here is the link to the firmware 5.2B.
   





subwoof3r said:


> *Finally got rid ot this delay problem !!! *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This has been rumored before to be the right solution.
 I'm glad it worked for you but I'll tell you why I don't see this as a proper solution.
  
  
*1.* The very words the manufacturer uses to advertise firmware 5.2B:
  
*Strict* quote from firmware 5.2B official download page, here: 





> *and sub-version 5.2B:*
> 
> *2) This is strictly for Smartphone users ONLY, there is no other reason to use 5.2B on the micro iDSD.*


 
  
 I feel there's no need to stress out why THEY felt the need to use _*"strictly"*_, then to capitalize *"only"* and then follow it with *"there is no other reason"*.
 I (despite being very upset about the delay) *trust* the manufacturer knows what is saying and I'm not going to update if I'm not using a smartphone. 
  
 As I am using Micro iDSD on PC computers only, I'm personally not interested in having degraded sonic qualities to get rid of the delay.
 I'd rather get rid of the device causing the delay, considering it as a breach of that particular (initial) *trust*.
  
*2.* I happen to have a lot of music in formats higher than 44.1Hz, namely 96Hz and 192Hz and down-sampling to 44.1Hz is definitely a no-go for me.
  
 Seems to me that I have to pick _*both*_ of the 2 evils. 
 No thanks, I'll pass.
  
  
 P.S.
  
 That would be a solution, for me, if iFi  would modify the change log of version 5.2B.
 Modify it to underline the fact that there's no loss in sonic quality between 5.2 and 5.2B when using anything but a smartphone.
  
 If that should happen, besides being fishy, it would render 5.2B as being less *Smartphone ONLY,  *but more:
 - *"there is another reason, no more (less optional) harmless delay (on PC computers ONLY)" *too. 
 Obviously, claims would then have to be put under test.
 And if proven to be true, it would indeed be a solution.


----------



## subwoof3r

topspin70 said:


> And @subwoof3r seemed to have solved it.


 
  
 Exactly, but the only remain cons for me is the deep sleep disabled, because I use it a lot, but I prefer to deal with this and get rid of those delay problems 
  
  


korabeu said:


> *2.* I happen to have a lot of music in formats higher than 44.1Hz, namely 96Hz and 192Hz and down-sampling to 44.1Hz is definitely a no-go for me.


 
 That shouldn't be a major problem since I think our web browsers does not support more than 44100 kHz, so if you are listening to Tidal for example, I don't think it will goes up to that value anyway (unless I'm wrong?).
 Setting 44100 like I said previously in windows sound output (iFi icon section), won't affect and really lock your iDSD to 44100 kHz, since wasapi/asio will change it dynamically.
 I just tried to read a DSD64 and switch between youtube: there is approx 0.3ms of delay, which is the exact value as ifi team posted here recently, it is the normal iDSD behaviour as they explained previously.
 Cheers'


----------



## Korabeu

I've all of my music stored in my computer(s) as actual files.
  
 So for me it's about switching between foobar2000/other video & audio players, browsers, video/music editing software etc.
  
 What are your settings in the iFi's app, 2nd tab, namely USB Streaming Mode & ASIO Buffer Size?


----------



## subwoof3r

korabeu said:


> What are your settings in the iFi's app, 2nd tab, namely USB Streaming Mode & ASIO Buffer Size?


 
 Everything stock. Never touched anything from iFi panel, but only via Foobar.
 Here are all my settings :
  
 http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/911174Capture.png
 http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/961865Sanstitre.png
 http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/288108Capture2.png
  
 Cheers'


----------



## Korabeu

This is an interesting find, what Windows are you using?
 My reports below are on Windows 7 x64.
  
*1.* I don't have ASIO module in my foobar, did you install it separately?
  

  
*2.* I only have 16 and 24 bit, no 32 bit in iFi Properties, why do you think that is?
  
  

  
  
*3.* Connected the iFi to another PC computer (to which iFi has been installed before, used the same USB port in the back of the monitor)
 Identical situation, 16 & 24bit only.
  
*4.* On the same 2nd PC computer, changed the USB port to one found at the back of the mainboard.
 Automatically detected & installed drivers.
 Still 16 & 24bit only.
  
  
*P.S. #1*
  
 Reinstalling drivers didn't work.
 Also, there's a bit of a story here:
 - I turned the unit off (still connected to USB); I uninstalled the drivers 
 - restarted the computer as asked 
 - upon restart, Windows detected iFi but couldn't automatically install the drivers
 - ran the v2.26.exe driver file, it reported to have installed correctly & iFi icon appeared in tray (reported no present device)
 - iFi still had a missing driver icon (exclamation mark) in Device Manager
 - tried again running the driver .exe file (same thing happened)
 - renamed .exe to .zip -> copied the files found there in a folder
 - pointed the iFi in Device Manger to manually update the driver from folder
 - correctly identified & working (but with 16 & 24bit, just as before, as shown below)
  
  
*P.S. #2*
  
 I only have the official v2.26.exe iFi drivers installed, those that can be found here.
 Are there any other drivers to be installed...?


----------



## technobear

korabeu said:


> *1.* I don't have ASIO module in my foobar, did you install it separately?




http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4170#post_11779584


----------



## Korabeu

Thank you for you reply,
  
 I had to install ASIOProxy, found here to get *foo_dsd_asio* to display in ASIO drivers.
  
 Latest version is 0.9.2 and looks like this (don't know if there's anything wrong there):
  

  
  
 In the SACD tab, the PCM settings seem to be fine:
  

  
  
  
 ...while the DSD options are greyed out:
  
  

  
  
 Does anyone know why?
  
 DSD plays fine though.


----------



## rickyleelee

subwoof3r said:


> *Finally got rid ot this delay problem !!!*
> 
> The solution was simple:
> 
> ...





the hd800 is pretty strong on the upper frequencies. add this to the sabre which is similar and you get lots of treble emphases. too much for me.


----------



## rickyleelee

korabeu said:


> Thank you for you reply,
> 
> I had to install ASIOProxy, found here to get *foo_dsd_asio* to display in ASIO drivers.
> 
> ...





go to the foobar forums and take a look. Let google be your assistant. peace


----------



## technobear

korabeu said:


> ...while the DSD options are greyed out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Items are greyed out when they are not relevant.

Since you're using a micro iDSD which can play DSD natively (i.e. without conversion), you should use output mode DSD.

Output mode PCM will convert all your DSD files to PCM on the way out. This is for DACs that cannot play DSD.


----------



## Korabeu

Thanks again for your reply & your explanations technobear,
  
 it's all new for me so I suppose the learning curve is a bit more steep than I had imagined.
  
 What got me started on that "greyed out" DSD option was the very post you directed me to earlier, namely this.
 In your post there, DSD options aren't greyed out and just wanted to replicate that.
  
 What am I missing here?


----------



## DarktoreS

My combo Micro IDSD+iTube+iCan SE with the TH500RP on Hifiman Focus pads, the rendering is really fabulous !


----------



## subwoof3r

korabeu said:


> What am I missing here?


 

 Maybe you can check if your AMR USB driver has been really and properly installed? it should look like this :
  

  
 I have also 64 bits but I'm on Windows 10 Pro


----------



## howdy

Sure am glad that I only use my Micro for portable use via iBasso DX80. 
DX80>iFI DSD>OppoPM3=:thumbsup_tone1:


----------



## Triodemode

Can someone tell me how to find the current version of firmware that my micro iDSD is running, and what version is recommended for a stand alone windows XP machine using Foobar2000?  Thanks.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

darktores said:


> oh
> 
> My combo Micro IDSD+iTube+iCan SE with the TH500RP on Hifiman Focus pads, the rendering is really fabulous !


 i love those pictures where ifi's are lining up perfectly


----------



## Korabeu

subwoof3r said:


> Maybe you can check if your AMR USB driver has been really and properly installed? it should look like this :
> 
> I have also 64 bits but I'm on Windows 10 Pro


 
  
 Hi, thanks for taking the time to help me with this, I appreciate it.
  
 This is how mine looks, identical to yours, lacking only the digital signature.
 It could be a Windows 7 vs Windows 10 issue but it would be nice if someone could confirm this.


----------



## subwoof3r

korabeu said:


> Hi, thanks for taking the time to help me with this, I appreciate it.
> 
> This is how mine looks, identical to yours, lacking only the digital signature.
> It could be a Windows 7 vs Windows 10 issue but it would be nice if someone could confirm this.


 
  
 It's strange because your driver has been properly installed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe you should ask to ifi team via *ticket support*? they are very reactive and helpful.


----------



## technobear

triodemode said:


> Can someone tell me how to find the current version of firmware that my micro iDSD is running




C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe




triodemode said:


> What version is recommended for a stand alone windows XP machine using Foobar2000? Thanks.




http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## marcus1

I know I've read the answer to my question below somewhere but can't find it here or on the ifi site, so:
When selecting the line direct out with fixed RCA output are the digital filters still active or does direct line out bypass everything?
Thanks


----------



## Triodemode

technobear said:


> C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe
> http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


 

 Thank you for this


technobear said:


> C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe
> http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


 

 Thank you for this Technobear.  Have you read if anyone has 'bricked' their micro iDSD when upgrading firmware?  I'm still running 4.06, but play a lot of native DSD music and  the new 5.2 is supposed to have improved sonics for native DSD.


----------



## technobear

marcus1 said:


> I know I've read the answer to my question below somewhere but can't find it here or on the ifi site, so:
> When selecting the line direct out with fixed RCA output are the digital filters still active or does direct line out bypass everything?
> Thanks




What do you mean by 'digital filters'?

A lot of folks are getting confused and thinking that XBASS and 3D must be DSP. They are not and they are not active in direct mode.

If you mean the digital filters in the DAC - standard, minimum phase and bit perfect - these are always active.


----------



## technobear

triodemode said:


> Have you read if anyone has 'bricked' their micro iDSD when upgrading firmware?




I don't recall that happening to anyone. I've done it a fair few times without mishap.


----------



## marcus1

Thanks for your reply.  The reason I asked is that I normally use my Micro in line direct mode to feed my stereo amp and had never bothered with the digital filters as I couldn't hear much difference between them but I recently did a 'tweak' on my Uptone Regen (replaced the 5v power supply with a *LiFePO4 *battery) and this upgrade (to the Regen) was amazing.  
  
 I was testing the tweaked Regen (listening with headphones) and was playing around with the filters and now could hear distinct differences with different filters selected so that's why I was asking about the filters being active in line direct mode.
  
 My media player is the Foobar 2K and I have the SACD plugin installed so everything is converted to DSD. I haven't put the Micro back into my stereo system yet but at the moment I prefer the DSD 'Extended' filter selection (I'm assuming that in the DSD Extreme/Extended/Standard (analogue) range filter selection that the 'Extended' selection equates to the 'Minimum-Phase' selection written on the Micro).
  
  
 Quote:


technobear said:


> What do you mean by 'digital filters'?
> 
> A lot of folks are getting confused and thinking that XBASS and 3D must be DSP. They are not and they are not active in direct mode.
> 
> If you mean the digital filters in the DAC - standard, minimum phase and bit perfect - these are always active.


----------



## gr8soundz

> I'm assuming that in the DSD Extreme/Extended/Standard (analogue) range filter selection that the 'Extended' selection equates to the 'Minimum-Phase' selection written on the Micro.


 
  
 Correct.


----------



## GraveNoX

Just got Nano iDSD and I'm blown away by how much more detailed my music it is now. Old DAC was really detailed, but this one, takes my music to another new level. I'm missing a lot by not going with Micro iDSD ? The difference is marginal or it is night and day ? I'm using Audio Technica MSR7 and JBL LSR 305. I care mainly about DAC section and amount of details (specially on mids, treble and highs).


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

gravenox said:


> Just got Nano iDSD and I'm blown away by how much more detailed my music it is now. Old DAC was really detailed, but this one, takes my music to another new level. I'm missing a lot by not going with Micro iDSD ? The difference is marginal or it is night and day ? I'm using Audio Technica MSR7 and JBL LSR 305. I care mainly about DAC section and amount of details (specially on mids, treble and highs).


IME the improvement from nano idsd to idac2 is already huge and same story goes for idac 2 to idsd micro


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> IME the improvement from nano idsd to idac2 is already huge and same story goes for idac 2 to idsd micro


 
 How different are the DAC sections between the iDAC2 and the Micro?


----------



## bflat

sonic defender said:


> How different are the DAC sections between the iDAC2 and the Micro?


 

 Technically it's night and day difference:
  
 iDSD has 2 DAC chips for each channel, plus uses femto clock. iDAC is single DAC chip, no femto clock.
  
 Whether all this makes any sonic difference, it will depend on your source music files and the rest of your chain. Personally, if I didn't see the iDSD on sale at Adorama, I would have gone with iDAC since I was looking to spend less than $400 for my office setup.
  
 BTW, I have the iDSD paired with a Lyr 2 amp and it's a nice combo with the benefit of tube rolling.


----------



## bluesaint

sonic defender said:


> How different are the DAC sections between the iDAC2 and the Micro?




Single bb chip DAC vs dual.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I doubt dual DAC chips make even .5% of an audible difference, and I also doubt anybody can hear differences in clocks unless one of them was defective. I owned the Micro and loved it, but I would bet as a DAC alone the two are transparent to the user, IMO only of course.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Being an engineer I couldn't care less about the number of DAC chip because yep it's transparent to the user. In terms of sound, the iDSD Micro sound more neutral and natural while the iDAC2 has the warmer BB signature. High-mids on the iDAC2 was a bit too shouty and though everything else was quite good, as a whole it doesn't come close to the iDSD. I think the difference is most obvious on Vocals track where the iDAC2 come very close to what I'd call "glaring" mids. I got the iDSD for quite cheap (used) so I love it much more than other people.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I guess my concern/question is that the DAC sections should be transparent, which you seem to mostly agree with. I can't imagine there is much of a difference in the DAC implementation between the two devices, so bypassing the Micro's amp, what really could make the DAC sections sound different?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I was talking about the DAC section only. I have my Little Dot I+ And these 2 were also used with my power speakers system


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> I was talking about the DAC section only. I have my Little Dot I+ And these 2 were also used with my power speakers system


 
 That is my point of inquiry then, what about the DAC sections would cause the sound to be so different? Now I don't know this, I'm speculating here, but not without some reasonable basis to build on. So if the DAC chip is the same, just one as opposed to 2 chips, and we know that companies want to reuse as much as they can rather than reinventing the wheel, I'm making the assumption that the DAC sections between the two devices should be pretty darn transparent to the user and ultimately similar in design. So as an engineer, if you look at the two DAC architectures, is there really any differences in the two DACs that should make one sound significantly different, let alone better than the other? I'm actually asking, I don't know the answer. I will admit my assumption is there is no significant difference, but I will also admit I could be completely wrong about this and I'm very open to learning.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Well I'm next to ignorant about sound equipment engineering but I don't think implementing 2 dac chips would be simple as opening a new channel and "split" the digital input into 2. In my imagination it might be as complicated to do low-level (machine level) coding on dual cores as opposed to on a single cpu core. It's a damn mess of threads and processes and other stuffs that an app developer would not want to get into. 
However I do think that a lot of people have come to the conclusion that the implementation will affect the sound more than the dac chip itself. I think it's the reason the idac2 is already different than the idsd nano, the xDuoo is different from any AK DAP that uses the same chip or some Sabre don't display the infamous "glare" at all. I was pleasantly surprised when I found that the iDsd Micro don't have that warm-ish BB signature sound but still very natural and enjoyable.


----------



## bluesaint

sonic defender said:


> That is my point of inquiry then, what about the DAC sections would cause the sound to be so different? Now I don't know this, I'm speculating here, but not without some reasonable basis to build on. So if the DAC chip is the same, just one as opposed to 2 chips, and we know that companies want to reuse as much as they can rather than reinventing the wheel, I'm making the assumption that the DAC sections between the two devices should be pretty darn transparent to the user and ultimately similar in design. So as an engineer, if you look at the two DAC architectures, is there really any differences in the two DACs that should make one sound significantly different, let alone better than the other? I'm actually asking, I don't know the answer. I will admit my assumption is there is no significant difference, but I will also admit I could be completely wrong about this and I'm very open to learning.


 
 Main reason IFI used 2 chips for the Micro was to achieve DSD512.  A single BB chip can only do DSD256.


----------



## The Walrus

Quick question: When I'm listening to music and working on my desktop PC, how can I get  Micro to play only from Windows Media Player? I hear all the system sounds from Windows, it's very annoying...


----------



## Aegruin

the walrus said:


> Quick question: When I'm listening to music and working on my desktop PC, how can I get  Micro to play only from Windows Media Player? I hear all the system sounds from Windows, it's very annoying...


 
 If I'm not wrong, you can't do that on Windows Media Player. It don't have any output settings. You could try Foobar. You assign Windows sound to another(or on-board) device and choose iDSD on Foobar from its output settings.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

There's this workaround that *might* work. Set your default device to idsd, turn on WMP then set the default device to your Realtek or anything else that you normally use. 

But it's best to switch to foobar


----------



## iFi audio

bluesaint said:


> Main reason IFI used 2 chips for the Micro was to achieve DSD512.  A single BB chip can only do DSD256.


 
  
 Not to pour cold water but unrelated to DSD256 or DSD512.


----------



## bluesaint

ifi audio said:


> Not to pour cold water but unrelated to DSD256 or DSD512.




Good to know, then what is it related to?


----------



## Sonic Defender

So it sounds like for the OP asking if he should get the Micro over the iDAC2 when he only cared about the DAC section, it seems to me the answer should be no, don't waste the Micro's capabilities if you aren't interested in the amplification section, the iDAC2 should be a transparent DAC choice as compared with the Micro. At least that is how I'm seeing things.


----------



## iFi audio

bluesaint said:


> Good to know, then what is it related to?


 
  
 We usually give the technical background when we do a product launch.  In the case of the iDAC2, it is outlined in this thread.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-calling-5-head-fiers-a-litte-surprise-page-37
  
 There is too much information to repeat here so take a read through.
  
 In a nutshell, the iDAC2 is focused upon desktop use. The micro iDSD is focused upon headphone use. As the OP said, save your money and get the iDAC2 if you only stay at home. SQ wise, the iDAC2 and the micro iDSD can both run in a 'big system' and neither will be embarrassed. And if you go use IEMs/headphones a lot, no need to pay extra for the headphone section in the micro iDSD.


----------



## Sonic Defender

There you go, right from the source, the iDAC2 as a DAC most likely is indistinguishable from the Micro being used as a DAC. So if the amplification needs aren't there, get the iDAC2.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

My ears beg to disagree but, well


----------



## iFi audio

sonic defender said:


> There you go, right from the source, the iDAC2 as a DAC most likely is indistinguishable from the Micro being used as a DAC. So if the amplification needs aren't there, get the iDAC2.


 
  
 Audio is subjective and we prefer to be somewhat conservative, It is not in our DNA to recommend the bigger one just to plug the more expensive unit. This is the AMR way of doing things. There really is not a lot in it between the iDAC2 and micro iDSD in terms of pure sonics but both punch way above their price class.


----------



## peter123

My thoughts on the Micro iDSD for those who might be interested:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/16750


----------



## sydneyaudio

I have been playing with one of these for a few months now.
 Its ordinary until you feed it dsd256 or dsd512. Then the magic happens.


----------



## glrtrgi

Curious if you ever received the modded DAC back from Igor, and if so, what are your thoughts?
  
 GLR


----------



## glrtrgi

jgwtriode said:


> warrior1975 said:
> 
> 
> > How are you modding the Micro?
> ...


 
 Was this mod ever done, and if so, what are your impressions?
  
 GLR


----------



## The Walrus

h1f1add1cted said:


> You are welcome I'm using a 256 GB full size SD card it's cheaper than 200 GB microSD card, you only need a microSD to SD adapter for the Samsung phone (but the 7200 mAh battery is too big, used the 5200 mAh battery instead and still over 20 hours play back):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, it's been four months. This config is working like a charm, thanks again. But here's the problem: I decided to upgrade to 512GB SD too, and it seems S4 isn't compatible with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  On the off chance that it is an android problem, I flashed a custom 6.0 ROM, but no it's a hardware problem. The phone recognizes the card, but it drops it a minute later. 
 Anyone has success with a 512GB SD (Kingston) with any android device?


----------



## rickyleelee

peter123 said:


> My thoughts on the Micro iDSD for those who might be interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/16750


 
  
   I used the free burn in track they provided. Cost zero.





  


  http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/burn-in-like-a-pro/


----------



## guzmanatm

sjwaudio said:


> Can anyone recommend a good carrying case for the iDSD Micro please?
> I'd be interested in something that could carry both the Micro itself and several cables.
> Thank you.


 
  
 If you're still looking for a carrying case, check out the Waterford Gear Pouch. Mine is size large and fits the micro iDSD well-- with enough room left over for a normal-sized DAP. It also has separate pockets for cables and connectors, plus there is a padded version in case you are rough on your gear.
  
https://www.sfbags.com/products/gear-pouch


----------



## Triodemode

Got a strange problem and before I open a trouble ticket with ifi, wanted to see if any gurus here could assist.  Just updated the firmware and driver of my micro iDSD to 5.2 and 2.26 respectively on my XP machine, now I can no longer open any ifi control panels to change modes and buffer size or that show the firmware version.  I gives me the errors pictured below.  I have tried multiple times to roll back and reload the driver however, the issue still remains.  I'm assuming these control panels reside within the driver and not the device's firmware.
  
 I can still play all my PCM and DSD music and movie files via Foobar and VLC though the micro iDSD.  Any idea how I can resolve this issue without having to restore my computer to before this driver install?  I also have another computer that still has the old driver 2.20 and the control panel opens on it.  Any idea what DLL is missing, where I can find it, and if I might be able to copy it from my other computer?
  
*(Disregard... I guess driver version 2.26 is incompatible with Windows XP, loaded 2.23 and everything is A okay now)*


----------



## The Walrus

aegruin said:


> If I'm not wrong, you can't do that on Windows Media Player. It don't have any output settings. You could try Foobar. You assign Windows sound to another(or on-board) device and choose iDSD on Foobar from its output settings.


 
 Solved: MS and WinX are full of surprises. Apparently in WMP you can also assign an audio device other than the default one. You can do it in settings - devices, if any of you is interested. Nick Cave is no longer being interrupted in the middle of the song with  a "ding!"   We both are much happier


----------



## sjwaudio

guzmanatm said:


> If you're still looking for a carrying case, check out the Waterford Gear Pouch. Mine is size large and fits the micro iDSD well-- with enough room left over for a normal-sized DAP. It also has separate pockets for cables and connectors, plus there is a padded version in case you are rough on your gear.
> 
> https://www.sfbags.com/products/gear-pouch


 
  
 Thanks very much for the suggestion. I bought a Khanka case off Amazon for $12 a month or two ago and have been pleased with it. It is a hard fabric case. The micro iDSD fits nicely in one half, secured by an elastic strap, and there is room for cables and connectors in the other half. In case anyone is interested, here is the product link: 
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CY5SQ22/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 But that Waterford Gear Pouch looks interesting and may have a little more room. I'll probably pick up one of those as well. Thank you.


----------



## doctorcilantro

howdy said:


> Anyone play SACD through this? I have a DX80 going to this and it plays through my DX80 but not through the Micro. I was thinking that the Coax was the culprit, any thoughts


 

 Using JRMC on Windows I can send DSD512 via ASIO Native DSD, I doubt this works on the DX80. I have a DX80 connected via S/PDIF to my iFi when I travel and noticed the passthrough fails.
  
 Most of the files I have on the DX80 are DSD64 so I don't think there is even a DoP output on the DX80.
  
 I've honestly been looking at the Fiio X7. I honestly hate the usability on the DX80 (lack of playlist support, add to playing now, etc.)


----------



## TAREKFOUAD1

sjwaudio said:


> Thanks very much for the suggestion. I bought a Khanka case off Amazon for $12 a month or two ago and have been pleased with it. It is a hard fabric case. The micro iDSD fits nicely in one half, secured by an elastic strap, and there is room for cables and connectors in the other half. In case anyone is interested, here is the product link:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CY5SQ22/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> But that Waterford Gear Pouch looks interesting and may have a little more room. I'll probably pick up one of those as well. Thank you.


 
 That's great case for idsd.
 Thx


----------



## jgwtriode

glrtrgi said:


> Was this mod ever done, and if so, what are your impressions?
> 
> GLR


I
Ii is in process! Igor had some family concerns to take care of...but I should have it back within the next couple of weeks. My understanding is that he modifies power supply. Increases emi and rf rejection and improves the output stages. Mine will have furutech occ copper rhodium rca outputs on silver gold neotech occ wire flying leads...not sure as to the rest will see!

Happy listening
jgwtriode


----------



## WindyCityCy

sjwaudio said:


> Thanks very much for the suggestion. I bought a Khanka case off Amazon for $12 a month or two ago and have been pleased with it. It is a hard fabric case. The micro iDSD fits nicely in one half, secured by an elastic strap, and there is room for cables and connectors in the other half. In case anyone is interested, here is the product link:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CY5SQ22/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> But that Waterford Gear Pouch looks interesting and may have a little more room. I'll probably pick up one of those as well. Thank you.


 
 Can you post a picture with the iDSD in the case?


----------



## gelocks

Hello everyone.
 Just recently acquired a Micro iDSD unit and have questions regarding unit charging/using.

 As I plan to use it as my office "rig" using an HTC phone as source via USB OTG, can I actually charge and use the device at the same time?

 If I use something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CXAC1ZW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 and this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IJ1IQ70/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A25241C6EWMUO7

 Am I "covered"?


 Thanks.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

No you can't. Once you turn it on the charging is off. I actually think it's a good thing since charging and using something at the same time will decrease the battery lifespan faster than doing those separately


----------



## The Walrus

williamleonhart said:


> No you can't. Once you turn it on the charging is off. I actually think it's a good thing since charging and using something at the same time will decrease the battery lifespan faster than doing those separately




Actually if you plug the charger in before you turn it on (and see the blue light) If I'm not wrong it WILL keep on charging after you turn it on too.


----------



## DomieMic65

I thing that if the Micro see's the phone while they are both connected to the hub may be it will work!


----------



## Korabeu

> 14. SmartPower®
> The USB type “A” port located to the side is able to recharge a Smart device.
> SmartPower® will automatically detect an iPhone/Android or similar and commence charging.
> *However, the micro iDSD must be switched OFF as it cannot charge and playback music simultaneously*.




Quote from iFi Micro iDSD's manual found here.


----------



## technobear

korabeu said:


> > 14. SmartPower®
> > The USB type “A” port located to the side is able to recharge a Smart device.
> > SmartPower® will automatically detect an iPhone/Android or similar and commence charging.
> > *However, the micro iDSD must be switched OFF as it cannot charge and playback music simultaneously*.
> ...




That's not what he's talking about.

If the iDSD is used in Eco mode, it will happily run from USB power and keep the battery topped off.


----------



## technobear

domiemic65 said:


> I thing that if the Micro see's the phone while they are both connected to the hub may be it will work!




How will you connect the phone via OTG to the iDSD and at the same time connect it to the hub?

Does the phone have more than one USB port?

The OTG cable you showed won't do it. The cable from the hub would only power the iDSD, not the phone.


----------



## sjwaudio

sjwaudio said:


> Thanks very much for the suggestion. I bought a Khanka case off Amazon for $12 a month or two ago and have been pleased with it. It is a hard fabric case. The micro iDSD fits nicely in one half, secured by an elastic strap, and there is room for cables and connectors in the other half. In case anyone is interested, here is the product link:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CY5SQ22/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> But that Waterford Gear Pouch looks interesting and may have a little more room. I'll probably pick up one of those as well. Thank you.






windycitycy said:


> Can you post a picture with the iDSD in the case?




A full day at work concluding with computer problems yesterday, so just now getting a chance to post some photos of the iDSD in the Khanka case.


----------



## gelocks

technobear said:


> How will you connect the phone via OTG to the iDSD and at the same time connect it to the hub?
> 
> Does the phone have more than one USB port?
> 
> The OTG cable you showed won't do it. The cable from the hub would only power the iDSD, not the phone.




I don't want to power the phone, just the iDSD... but still send the digital signal from the phone to the DAC...
ANyway, I think I'll just buy those and try.
Worse that could happen is that it doesn't work...


----------



## technobear

gelocks said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > How will you connect the phone via OTG to the iDSD and at the same time connect it to the hub?
> ...




The OTG cable you showed should work fine but I don't see why you need the hub - unless you want a hub for other purposes.

You could just use a USB power supply. If you didn't mind spending a little more, the best power supply would be the iFi Audio iPower 5V.


----------



## The Walrus

I have the "B" firmware installed so micro doesn't go to sleep mode and doesn't steel from my phone's battery. All is well.
 But when I turn the micro off , I see that little blue light, which if I'm not mistaken means he is stealing again!
 Is there a workaround for this? It's so annoying to detach the cable or turn the phone off every time.


----------



## LoryWiv

the walrus said:


> I have the "B" firmware installed so micro doesn't go to sleep mode and doesn't steel from my phone's battery. All is well.
> But when I turn the micro off , I see that little blue light, which if I'm not mistaken means he is stealing again!
> Is there a workaround for this? It's so annoying to detach the cable or turn the phone off every time.


 

 If your iDSD micro is attached to computer via USB and turned off, I believe the blue light indicates it is charging off of bus power.


----------



## WindyCityCy

sjwaudio said:


> A full day at work concluding with computer problems yesterday, so just now getting a chance to post some photos of the iDSD in the Khanka case.



This looks good. Thanks for posting.


----------



## The Walrus

lorywiv said:


> If your iDSD micro is attached to computer via USB and turned off, I believe the blue light indicates it is charging off of bus power.


 
 Yes. And it draws charge from the phone as well when it's connected via the OTG cable and it's turned off.


----------



## roiosdona

Hi! Can I connect the IFI IDSD Micro to the AR-M2 player ( in order to amplify it)? 
  
 Thanks
 Roi


----------



## iFi audio

roiosdona said:


> Hi! Can I connect the IFI IDSD Micro to the AR-M2 player ( in order to amplify it)?
> 
> Thanks
> Roi


 
  
 HI,
  
 AR-M2 (or any audio device with 3.5mm out) connect it to the 3,5mm input of the micro iDSD.


----------



## roiosdona

ifi audio said:


> HI,
> 
> AR-M2 (or any audio device with 3.5mm out) connect it to the 3,5mm input of the micro iDSD.


 
  
 Hi, thank you! Can the  IFI Micro IDSD be connected to a computer\laptop via USB and be used as a DAC?
  
 Is the IFI IDSD the best option for a portable AMP\DAC?
  
 Thanks a lot!
  
 Roi


----------



## iFi audio

roiosdona said:


> Hi, thank you! Can the  IFI Micro IDSD be connected to a computer\laptop via USB and be used as a DAC?
> 
> Is the IFI IDSD the best option for a portable AMP\DAC?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/iphone-ipad-ipod-touch/
  
  
 Scroll down to Level 4. iPhone, Android, Computer, all the same!
  
 Yes, we use PCs/tablets or when on the road, we use Sony Z phone/iPhone.


----------



## Triplefun

Has anyone used the iDSD with Daphile, and in particular, Daphile DSD256 and DSD512 upsampling? Are there any differences in sound from PCM? Also, what CPU are you using and what is the loading like?


----------



## bflat

I have an annoying problem with the iDSD. I have it connected directly to my Mac USB and only turn in on when listening. Otherwise, I turn it off and leave it plugged into the USB port. However, when it is turned off and my Mac goes to sleep mode, the iDSD will not connect when I wake the Mac up and turn the iDSD on. Once this happens no amount of turning on/off the iDSD will connect and show up as an audio device. I found I have to physically disconnect the USB cable while the iDSD is still on and plug the USB cable back in. Only then it will be recognized. I suppose I could just leave the iDSD on, but if there is a simple solution to this I would be grateful to know. Neither my CDM, Mojo, or DFR have the same problem.


----------



## youurayy

triplefun said:


> Has anyone used the iDSD with Daphile, and in particular, Daphile DSD256 and DSD512 upsampling? Are there any differences in sound from PCM? Also, what CPU are you using and what is the loading like?


 
  
 Not sure about Daphile, but Foobar:
  

  
  
 Difference - it's a completely different DAC, half of which is in the software. It's a sigma-delta pre-rendering in the phase where clock jitter cannot affect it, not just upsampling. Whether you will like it depends on your personal tastes. For me now PCM is a no no (unless mobile or backward compatibility).
  
 For DSD512, make sure you have a recent mainboard with a good USB implementation though (think gaming-mobos).


----------



## iFi audio

bflat said:


> I have an annoying problem with the iDSD. I have it connected directly to my Mac USB and only turn in on when listening. Otherwise, I turn it off and leave it plugged into the USB port. However, when it is turned off and my Mac goes to sleep mode, the iDSD will not connect when I wake the Mac up and turn the iDSD on. Once this happens no amount of turning on/off the iDSD will connect and show up as an audio device. I found I have to physically disconnect the USB cable while the iDSD is still on and plug the USB cable back in. Only then it will be recognized. I suppose I could just leave the iDSD on, but if there is a simple solution to this I would be grateful to know. Neither my CDM, Mojo, or DFR have the same problem.


 
  
 From afar, it is hard to say what is going on with the mac and iDSD. Could be the Mac keeps the power on the ports but shuts the USB connection down. Then the connection cannot be re-established. 
  
 Possible options:
 1) Set the Mac to fully shut down, not sleep.
 2) Set the Mac to shut down the power to the USB Port when sleeping.
 3) Using a hub may also help


----------



## chawya22

bflat said:


> I have an annoying problem with the iDSD. I have it connected directly to my Mac USB and only turn in on when listening. Otherwise, I turn it off and leave it plugged into the USB port. However, when it is turned off and my Mac goes to sleep mode, the iDSD will not connect when I wake the Mac up and turn the iDSD on. Once this happens no amount of turning on/off the iDSD will connect and show up as an audio device. I found I have to physically disconnect the USB cable while the iDSD is still on and plug the USB cable back in. Only then it will be recognized. I suppose I could just leave the iDSD on, but if there is a simple solution to this I would be grateful to know. Neither my CDM, Mojo, or DFR have the same problem.


 

 Have you tried to Zap the PRAM? I suppose it wouldn't make any difference, since it's only a problem with the iDSD and works correctly with your other USB devices.


----------



## MLGrado

OP here, just wanting to jump in and say I am enjoying this DAC as much as ever.  
  
 I want to discuss some recent changes in my setup that have taken the sound to another level.  
  
 1.  Galvanic Isolation with the Intona USB isolator.  
  
 Now, the power output that comes out of the Intona isn't enough to power the iDSD, at least not in my case, so you need an external power source such as the iUSB.  
  
 2. Upgraded power supply in conjunction with the iUSB (original version.)  I had great results with the new 9v iPower.  But, even BETTER results, even astonishingly so, came when I replaced the iPower with a LPS from eBay.  Less than 100 bucks, case says 'Breeze Audio. Voltage is adjustable interally via a pot.  
  
 This made bass tighter, imaging became more well defined, everything just sounds more solid and 'in control'.  
  
  
 So, currently my signal chain is this... Standard home built PC running Jriver, music on NAS.  USB out into Intona Galvanic isolator.  USB into original iFi iUSB powered via Chinese/eBay LPS.  iFi Gemini Cable into iDSD Micro.  
  
  
  
 I tried out the Uptone Regen for several months.  I thought I liked it quite well at first, but a change in headphones from HifiMan HE-560 to Audeze LCD-X exposed some treble harshness and brightness that just wasn't right.  Audeze headphones should NOT be bright, edgy, harsh, hard and fatiguing to listen to. Removing the REGEN from the signal chain immediately fixed the problem.  Without the Regen the sound could be described as 'sweet'.  
  
 Therefore, I am thinking of adding the iFi iPurifier 2 along with the iUSB. to replace the Regen.  For whatever reason my Regen and iDSD just really didn't play nice together.  Your results may vary.  
  
  
 BUT, I cannot say enough good things about using a Linear Power Supply with the iDSD.  Even an inexpensive one.  Not an expensive experiment to try.  Give it a shot and see how it goes!


----------



## bflat

ifi audio said:


> From afar, it is hard to say what is going on with the mac and iDSD. Could be the Mac keeps the power on the ports but shuts the USB connection down. Then the connection cannot be re-established.
> 
> Possible options:
> 1) Set the Mac to fully shut down, not sleep.
> ...


 

 thanks for the tips. Here is one additional clue if it helps identify the problem - even when the iDSD is turned off, my Mac still shows it is connected. Of course when I try to play tracks through it, I get nothing. I have to physically disconnect/reconnect the cable in order for the iDSD to "really" be connected.


----------



## youurayy

mlgrado said:


> BUT, I cannot say enough good things about using a Linear Power Supply with the iDSD.  Even an inexpensive one.  Not an expensive experiment to try.  Give it a shot and see how it goes!


 
  
 I'm using this (a powered USB 3.0 hub - other end goes to PC) https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Aluminum-13-Port-Charging-VL812-B2/dp/B00GSLMTQ8
 and this https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups/pfc-sinewave/cp1500pfclcd
 (EU versions).
  
 The UPS kicks in the Automatic Voltage Regulation on hot days when houses around me run too much AC. I don't want to know what else goes on in the mains.
  
 But I'll be moving the iDSD micro to the bedroom soon (getting a Lampizator) so I'll most probably get the iUSB micro to smooth it out and stay connected to the mains / stay charged. I assume I can use it like that with a mobile device.


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> But I'll be moving the iDSD micro to the bedroom soon (getting a Lampizator) so I'll most probably get the iUSB micro to smooth it out and stay connected to the mains / stay charged. I assume I can use it like that with a mobile device.




Yeah. You just need a split OTG cable. One end goes in the phone, the other end goes in the iUSB and the type A socket goes in the iDSD. Note that this won't charge the phone.


----------



## youurayy

technobear said:


> Yeah. You just need a split OTG cable. One end goes in the phone, the other end goes in the iUSB and the type A socket goes in the iDSD. Note that this won't charge the phone.


 
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusb3-0/
  
 No I think it works without the split cable --- the input from the phone/tablet goes into "USB Input" --- the charging is through the 9V DC -- this then charges the iDSD micro through the USB Output 1 Power + Audio port.
  

  
  
 The split OTG cable could be used to charge the phone/tablet (used in between the iUSB 3.0 and the phone/tablet.) <-- @iFi audio could you confirm this is OK to use like that?
 Example product: https://www.amazon.com/HDE-Splitter-Cable-Micro-B-Computer/dp/B009CYMES6
  
 EDIT: Plus I gess this: http://www.cooldrives.com/index.php/usb-3-0-gender-changer-usb-3-0-type-b-male-to-usb-3-0-type-a-female.html
  
 EDIT2: Also wondering if the power plug of the split cable could craw power from the "USB Output1 Power only" from the iUSB. <-- @iFi audio if you could confirm as well.
  
 EIDT3: Trying to be USB 3.0 here, my Galaxy S5 (and Galaxy Tab 2?) support that type of plug.


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> The split OTG cable could be used to charge the phone/tablet (used in between the iUSB 3.0 and the phone/tablet.) <-- @iFi audio
> could you confirm this is OK to use like that?
> Example product: https://www.amazon.com/HDE-Splitter-Cable-Micro-B-Computer/dp/B009CYMES6
> 
> ...




When you wrote 'iUSB micro', I assumed you meant iUSBPower. Using the split OTG cable then avoids sending the data lines through the iUSB Power avoiding several connections along the way.

The iUSB3.0 does much more and you do want to send the data through it so your suggestion is the best one.

You don't need an OTG cable for phone charging. You need a regular USB cable for that.

Most times the phone can do OTG or it can charge but not both at the same time. The phone is either in client mode (regular cable) for charging and data transfer or it is in host mode (OTG cable) for playing music or hosting storage devices. In host mode it is supplying power so not charging.

There is a long thread here somewhere on Android phones and DACs using OTG.


----------



## youurayy

technobear said:


> When you wrote 'iUSB micro', I assumed you meant iUSBPower. Using the split OTG cable then avoids sending the data lines through the iUSB Power avoiding several connections along the way.
> 
> The iUSB3.0 does much more and you do want to send the data through it so your suggestion is the best one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm still not sure how the chargning of the phone along with musing playback (not necessarily at the same time, but without re-plugging any cables) will be achieved without an Y cable, with the iDSD + iUSB.
  
 What will connect to where, and what types of cable?
  
 The phone I understand has to connect into the iUSB -- but this actually doesn't seem to be the intended case, given the Female B USB 3.0 input on the iUSB.


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > When you wrote 'iUSB micro', I assumed you meant iUSBPower. Using the split OTG cable then avoids sending the data lines through the iUSB Power avoiding several connections along the way.
> ...




It's not possible with any kind of cable.

A standard cable puts the phone in client mode.

An OTG cable puts the phone in host mode.

Phone charging only occurs in client mode.

In host mode the phone is a supplier of power, not a consumer.

OTG is a kludge for something that was too far out of the box when these smart phones were originally conceived.

Even now the manufacturers do not get it or we would see phones with two USB ports.

That's it.


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> The phone I understand has to connect into the iUSB -- but this actually doesn't seem to be the intended case, given the Female B USB 3.0 input on the iUSB.




You can use this:



or this:



with a standard A male to B male cable:



So long as the plug that goes in the phone is certified 'OTG' then you are good to go.


----------



## youurayy

technobear said:


> It's not possible with any kind of cable.


 
 Is this specific to iUSB micro? Would the iPurifier support the Y cable setup?


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > It's not possible with any kind of cable.
> ...




Please read the post again.

It has nothing to do with any iFi product.

The shortcomings of OTG are a feature of Android phones.


----------



## youurayy

technobear said:


> Please read the post again.
> 
> It has nothing to do with any iFi product.
> 
> The shortcomings of OTG are a feature of Android phones.





What is the Y cable ever good for then?


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Please read the post again.
> ...




Most phones are not capable of powering a USB DAC. The 'Y' cable allows you to use a separate power supply.


----------



## youurayy

technobear said:


> Most phones are not capable of powering a USB DAC. The 'Y' cable allows you to use a separate power supply.


 
 Ohhh supply for the DAC!  Thanks for the explanation @technobear!
  
 I guess that's why some portable DACs come with the host socket instead of the OTG one.
  
 Anyway, the iPad Air 2 I use in the bedroom can go about a month on a single charge (with wifi turned off), so not a big problem.


----------



## Taggerung

technobear said:


> Most phones are not capable of powering a USB DAC. The 'Y' cable allows you to use a separate power supply.


 
 What are some portable DACs that don't have their own battery, and/or is a combo AMP/DAC unit?


----------



## bflat

taggerung said:


> What are some portable DACs that don't have their own battery, and/or is a combo AMP/DAC unit?


 

 How is a DAC portable if it doesn't have a battery? Or are you asking about a small desktop DAC that you can easily carry and doesn't use battery? If so looks at Schiit DACs in their smallest case sizes. That's all I can think of.


----------



## technobear

bflat said:


> taggerung said:
> 
> 
> > What are some portable DACs that don't have their own battery, and/or is a combo AMP/DAC unit?
> ...




Also the Arcam rPAC and the Audioquest Dragonfly (although the latest Dragonfly Black and Dragonfly Red are efficient enough to be powered by a phone).

Edit: and NuForce uDAC - I'm sure there are others. Also OTG isn't just about DACs. You might want to use a hard drive or a USB powered scanner.


----------



## bflat

technobear said:


> Audioquest Dragonfly (although the latest Dragonfly Black and Dragonfly Red are efficient enough to be powered by a phone).


 
  
 LOL forgot about that one and I have it on my iPhone 7.


----------



## youurayy

taggerung said:


> What are some portable DACs that don't have their own battery, and/or is a combo AMP/DAC unit?


 
 Upcoming Dacamp L1 from RHA seems be host mode (has a battery).


----------



## Triplefun

taggerung said:


> What are some portable DACs that don't have their own battery, and/or is a combo AMP/DAC unit?


 
  
 Have a look at HiFiDIYME for some interesting low power options ..
http://hifimediy.com/


----------



## GraveNoX

Hello everyone,
  
 I'm looking for the most detailed DAC in the $500 range, I want to hear everything in the music very clearly. Is it the micro iDSD the best from this list?
 Chord Mojo
 Matrix Mini-i Pro (2015)
 Matrix Mini-i Pro 2 (2016)
 Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
 Fiio X7
 Oppo HA-2
  
 What's the top 3 ?
 Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## howdy

gravenox said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm looking for the most detailed DAC in the $500 range, I want to hear everything in the music very clearly. Is it the micro iDSD the best from this list?
> Chord Mojo
> ...



I'm on my phone so I can't really elaborate to much but I had a mojo and a HA2 and the Micro is the only one I still have! I love the sound and clarity not to mention all the power and options on this.


----------



## Triplefun

I would also look at the smsl m8 and gustard x12 for good sabre es9018 solutions.


----------



## The Walrus

My T1.2 is starting to give me headaches because of this piercing treble with Micro. It's considerably better with FiiO E12. Any remedy?


----------



## The Walrus

the walrus said:


> My T1.2 is starting to give me headaches because of this piercing treble with Micro. It's considerably better with FiiO E12. Any remedy?


 
 Never mind. It's my brain playing tricks on me. Although switching from Eco mode to Normal helped a bit, I think?


----------



## Triplefun

could be the source - does dsd output make any difference - try the ifi dsd samples.


----------



## theveterans

> My T1.2 is starting to give me headaches because of this piercing treble with Micro. It's considerably better with FiiO E12. Any remedy?


 
  
 Your physical state affects the treble intensity that you feel even though the treble output is the exactly the same from a previous listening session. If you're tired, you'll easily find the treble fatiguing, but if you're rockin' on, treble does sound mightily good!


----------



## The Walrus

theveterans said:


> Your physical state affects the treble intensity that you feel even though the treble output is the exactly the same from a previous listening session. If you're tired, you'll easily find the treble fatiguing, but if you're rockin' on, treble does sound mightily good!


 
 Most probably it! Very stressful and tiring day.


----------



## technobear

the walrus said:


> My T1.2 is starting to give me headaches because of this piercing treble with Micro. It's considerably better with FiiO E12. Any remedy?




Adding the micro iCAN kicks the sound quality up a notch and is a little less hot in the treble.

Adding an iPurifier2 will take away some grain and glare and make the treble easier to listen to.


----------



## technobear

gravenox said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm looking for the most detailed DAC in the $500 range, I want to hear everything in the music very clearly. Is it the micro iDSD the best from this list?
> Chord Mojo
> ...




For the most detail I would be looking at the Audiolab Q-DAC at that price.


----------



## HotIce

gravenox said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm looking for the most detailed DAC in the $500 range, I want to hear everything in the music very clearly. Is it the micro iDSD the best from this list?
> Chord Mojo
> ...


 
  
 I'd add the E5 in the list, among the ones I own.
 But truth to be told, they will all reproduce what the source is, within 0.001%, and since your ears (so are mine, and everyone else but Batman) have much lower discerning ability, I would invest the bulk of your budget in an headphone which has a very clear top end.


----------



## youurayy

hotice said:


> I'd add the E5 in the list, among the ones I own.
> But truth to be told, they will all reproduce what the source is, within 0.001%, and since your ears (so are mine, and everyone else but Batman) have much lower discerning ability, I would invest the bulk of your budget in an headphone which has a very clear top end.


 
 There's much more to an amp than THD.


----------



## GraveNoX

hotice said:


> I'd add the E5 in the list, among the ones I own.
> But truth to be told, they will all reproduce what the source is, within 0.001%, and since your ears (so are mine, and everyone else but Batman) have much lower discerning ability, I would invest the bulk of your budget in an headphone which has a very clear top end.


 
 I currently have Nano iDSD, Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7, JBL LSR305 and I still think I'm missing something, even on ATH-MSR7s and even if they are mindblowing on highs, at least for me. I don't really need a powerfull amp but maybe in the future I'm gonna buy something that require more power. I want the most revealing DAC so I would know that the DAC is not the problem in my future setups. I want to do it this way because I started with speakers, amp with built-in DAC, cables and then DAC and the DAC was the biggest upgrade I made. I used the speakers for 2 years and I couldn't realise that my speakers can sound this good, so yeah, the first step in building a home system is to get the DAC and build around it. I'm not a guy who invest/will invest in things like pre-amps, cd players, expensive cables etc. I like simple setups.
  
 Any DAC tries to be flat and neutral and natural (yeah 3 in the same sentence even if they are all the same) so any DAC should sound good on any setup. If your headphones are becoming bright by adding a DAC, then the headphones are poorly designed, plain and simple. If the designer made them bright, they should sound bright on ANY dac, if you tammed down the brightness by using a specific DAC, then you already modifying what the designer wanted for you to hear and that specific DAC is a failure. That's how I'm thinking about this.
  
 There is no SMSL, Gustard, Schiit, Audiolab Q-DAC in my country (also Q-DAC is too old to be on my list).


----------



## HotIce

youurayy said:


> There's much more to an amp than THD.


 
 Oh, yes, much more. It's some sort of hidden, subliminal, signal, unable to be captured with measuring instruments with 1e-6 resolution, but that the human ears, which have 1e-1 resolution, can capture.
 Of course, the capturing happen only in tests they do personally. In publicly held A/B tests, their discerning capability vanish pretty quickly.
 I forgot the scientific definition for such hidden signal, but it had something to do with reptiles and oil.


----------



## HotIce

gravenox said:


> Any DAC tries to be flat and neutral and natural (yeah 3 in the same sentence even if they are all the same) so any DAC should sound good on any setup. If your headphones are becoming bright by adding a DAC, then the headphones are poorly designed, plain and simple. If the designer made them bright, they should sound bright on ANY dac, if you tammed down the brightness by using a specific DAC, then you already modifying what the designer wanted for you to hear and that specific DAC is a failure. That's how I'm thinking about this.


 
  
 Take a look at the frequency response of a sanely designed DAC or amplifier. Within the audio band, they are as flat as a glass table top.
 Now take a look at the frequency response of a typical headphone (or speaker FWIW). Looks like a wild roller coaster.
 What do you think has the major influence on your perception of sound?


----------



## youurayy

hotice said:


> Oh, yes, much more. It's some sort of hidden, subliminal, signal, unable to be captured with measuring instruments with 1e-6 resolution, but that the human ears, which have 1e-1 resolution, can capture.
> Of course, the capturing happen only in tests they do personally. In publicly held A/B tests, their discerning capability vanish pretty quickly.
> I forgot the scientific definition for such hidden signal, but it had something to do with reptiles and oil.


 
  
 We may start with harmonic distortion at specific input frequency at specific output power at specific input impedance of a given headphone for that input frequency.
  
 Or did you think it was constant.


----------



## HotIce

youurayy said:


> We may start with harmonic distortion at specific input frequency at specific output power at specific input impedance of a given headphone for that input frequency.
> 
> Or did you think it was constant.


 
  
 No, no, I think you are onto something.
 Please, explain (teach me, if you will), in deeper scientific terms where you are going to, with the catch phrase above.


----------



## youurayy

hotice said:


> No, no, I think you are onto something.
> Please, explain (teach me, if you will), in deeper scientific terms where you are going to, with the catch phrase above.


 
  
 This is not the thread for that, so let me just say this -- the way an amp will sound with a given input will depend on its power supply, on its components, and on the headphones. With DAC it's the same, but add the DAC chip and the clock source. Some say that different DAC chips make for a 10% difference tops, given the rest of the components being the same.
  
 As for science, in this particular area, to get 100% scientific, we need to be able to understand how human brain decodes audio signals into what we internally perceive as sound. At this point we can't even fully describe the given audio signals, as when you zoom in, it's just too much data that only makes sense when at the same time looked at together.


----------



## HotIce

youurayy said:


> This is not the thread for that, so let me just say this -- the way an amp will sound with a given input will depend on its power supply, on its components, and on the headphones. With DAC it's the same, but add the DAC chip and the clock source. Some say that different DAC chips make for a 10% difference tops, given the rest of the components being the same.
> 
> As for science, in this particular area, to get 100% scientific, we need to be able to understand how human brain decodes audio signals into what we internally perceive as sound. At this point we can't even fully describe the given audio signals, as when you zoom in, it's just too much data that only makes sense when at the same time looked at together.


 
  
 Given N amps, and the proper instruments, will one be able to measure differences? Yes.
 Will your ears? Much, much, harder, if differences are in the 1e-3 and lower range.
 And for this, there have been scientific studies as backing, more than "fugazi" catch phrases.


----------



## howdy

I only look half-assed but is there any issues with the micro and the new Apple fw 10.0.1?


----------



## HotIce

howdy said:


> I only look half-assed but is there any issues with the micro and the new Apple fw 10.0.1?


 
  
 iPad Air (iOS 10) -> CCK -> iDSD is fine for me.
 Have not updated the iPhone 6 yet, but I would expect similar results.


----------



## howdy

hotice said:


> iPad Air (iOS 10) -> CCK -> iDSD is fine for me.
> Have not updated the iPhone 6 yet, but I would expect similar results.



Cool, thanks! 
I'll give it a try.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Another thread, another argument. You hear what you hear, so why bother? In my actual experiences, yes amps and dacs do sound different though they are supposed to sound the same. Not anyone can do a good job. 

Now if it's worth anything my top 3 DACs in the $500 range are Grace m9xx, idsd Micro and Chord Mojo, in that order. Not that they're necessarily different, but they are quite different from, say, the OPPO HA2 which I despises for its broken treble.


----------



## HotIce

williamleonhart said:


> Another thread, another argument. You hear what you hear, so why bother? In my actual experiences, yes amps and dacs do sound different though they are supposed to sound the same. Not anyone can do a good job.


 
  
 It would be awfully nice if some of you of the Batman Club would show up at A/B tests some time, to lay facts behind your statements.
 But you call always sick day when they happen.
  
 When I mentioned about audio distortion audibility, I forgot to add some links, in case someone is interested.
 Note that these tests are conducted by engineers and/or organizations with no agenda behind, besides the scientific drive:
  
 http://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/human-hearing-distortion-audibility-part-3
 http://www.axiomaudio.com/distortion
  
 And then there is the mythical thread, which is always a fun read:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths


----------



## Rearwing

williamleonhart said:


> Another thread, another argument. You hear what you hear, so why bother? In my actual experiences, yes amps and dacs do sound different though they are supposed to sound the same. Not anyone can do a good job.
> 
> Now if it's worth anything my top 3 DACs in the $500 range are Grace m9xx, idsd Micro and Chord Mojo, in that order. Not that they're necessarily different, but they are quite different from, say, the OPPO HA2 which I despises for its broken treble.


 

 Who says that amps and dacs are supposed to sound the same? I have two guitars, a Fender and a Gibson; I have both because they produce different sounds and I enjoy the them for that very reason and use them accordingly. 
  
 I have more than one amp and dac for the very same reason; and because sadly I developed an interest in audio gear! I don't agree with everything and everybody, but when I don't I normally keep quiet.


----------



## HotIce

rearwing said:


> Who says that amps and dacs are supposed to sound the same? I have two guitars, a Fender and a Gibson; I have both because they produce different sounds and I enjoy the them for that very reason and use them accordingly.


 
  
 Well, I think the both Fender and Gibson go very far in their own way, to ensure their guitars have their signature sound.
 The same way a Stradivari sounds different from a $200 mass produced violin.
 To make an analogy, clearly a Pinot Noir tastes different from a Brunello Di Montalcino, few people would argue that.
 Saying that carrying the same wine through two bottles made with different kind of glass, under the same exact conditions, makes the wine taste different, is another story.
  
 IOW, yeah, if Mr.Sound had a mailing address, that would be 1 Musical Instrument Drive.


----------



## roiosdona

Hi! How does the IDSD Micro compare with the Shure SHA900? In terms of sound and in terms of power?


----------



## technobear

roiosdona said:


> Hi! How does the IDSD Micro compare with the Shure SHA900? In terms of sound and in terms of power?




http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/

http://www.shure.com/americas/sha900


----------



## roiosdona

Hi! Can the Ifi iDSD Micro be charged using a Samsung Galaxy S5 Neo charger (power adapter)?
  
  
 Thanks!
  
 Roi


----------



## The Walrus

roiosdona said:


> Hi! Can the Ifi iDSD Micro be charged using a Samsung Galaxy S5 Neo charger (power adapter)?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> ...


 
 You'll need an adapter like this:


----------



## The Walrus

technobear said:


> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/
> 
> http://www.shure.com/americas/sha900


 
 135 mW and $860! That's a rip off.


----------



## roiosdona

Hi, does the iDSD Micro come with an adapter like this?
  
 Is it a specific adapter? What's the name of the adapter?
  
 Actually the power adapter of my cell phone works with a normal USB cable like this:
  

  


the walrus said:


> You'll need an adapter like this:


----------



## The Walrus

roiosdona said:


> Hi, does the iDSD Micro come with an adapter like this?
> 
> Is it a specific adapter? What's the name of the adapter?
> 
> Actually the power adapter of my cell phone works with a normal USB cable like this:


 
 That's OK, you can use it to charge the micro with its USB cable.


----------



## roiosdona

Hi, is the IFI Micro iDSD a good match with the Beyerdynamic T1 gen 2?
  
 Thanks!
  
 Roi


----------



## iFi audio

Hope everyone's had a great week!
  
 We just want to extend an invitation to all of you to check out an upcoming tour of our *Pro iCAN* we're holding for those in the US.
  
 If you're at all interested in the opportunity to listen and review the Pro iCAN, we encourage you to check out the link HERE!


----------



## GraveNoX

First time noticing that DSD1793 it's a chip released in 2003 so they used that old chip in a $500 DAC today which is kinda strange. I may not go with micro just because of this, there are so many chips out there and they go with the oldest one. I didn't even had a computer in 2003.


----------



## HotIce

gravenox said:


> First time noticing that DSD1793 it's a chip released in 2003 so they used that old chip in a $500 DAC today which is kinda strange. I may not go with micro just because of this, there are so many chips out there and they go with the oldest one. I didn't even had a computer in 2003.


 
  
 And which part of the DSD1793 IC or iDSD spec, you are not pleased with?


----------



## GraveNoX

hotice said:


> And which part of the DSD1793 IC or iDSD spec, you are not pleased with?


 
 The DSD1793 specs are just too low for a $500 dac. My denon av receiver have pcm1690 which has same SNR as DSD1793, I know the implementation is better on iFi but I don't expect a big difference. From what I understand, iFi wanted to do something that can play anything and they did it with the lowest cost possible (I don't want to enter into discussion how bad nano idsd jacks/volume control feels like, but sometimes I'm afraid when I plug something into the rca or jack, because the jacks are moving from place and it feels like it's gonna break. Response from ifi: Not all units are built the same. We cannot do nothing about it. End of story). At least it sounds good even if they didn't put some glue around jacks (or something else). Nano iDSD has 104 SNR, it's like they wanted to cut the dynamics (from 113). I know, I know, measurements don't tell the whole story.
 They could used PCM1792, DSD1792, PCM1795 (these have crazy numbers even if they are from same manufacturer), AK4490, CS4398, CS4364, CS4384, WM8741, WM8742 and maybe more. They all do DSD in the proper way.


----------



## technobear

gravenox said:


> The DSD1793 specs are just too low for a $500 dac. My denon av receiver have pcm1690 which has same SNR as DSD1793, I know the implementation is better on iFi but I don't expect a big difference. From what I understand, iFi wanted to do something that can play anything and they did it with the lowest cost possible (I don't want to enter into discussion how bad nano idsd jacks/volume control feels like, but sometimes I'm afraid when I plug something into the rca or jack, because the jacks are moving from place and it feels like it's gonna break. Response from ifi: Not all units are built the same. We cannot do nothing about it. End of story). At least it sounds good even if they didn't put some glue around jacks (or something else). Nano iDSD has 104 SNR, it's like they wanted to cut the dynamics (from 113). I know, I know, measurements don't tell the whole story.
> They could used PCM1792, DSD1792, PCM1795 (these have crazy numbers even if they are from same manufacturer), AK4490, CS4398, CS4364, CS4384, WM8741, WM8742 and maybe more. They all do DSD in the proper way.




iFi have very good reasons for choosing the DSD1793 and they have little to do with age or price. Do some research before coming on here and bad mouthing one of the best DAC designs available in the current market. Perhaps you missed the part where the DSD1793 is a hybrid multi-bit/delta-sigma DAC and sounds amazing performing bit-perfect PCM conversion with no nasty resampling and digital conversion. Almost every chip since has been a step backwards for the music lover.

Also, I take issue with your statement that iFi said "Not all units are built the same. End of Story".

It is not the end of the story. We can all read. They have offered to replace your unit. I suggest you stop huffing and puffing and stamping your feet like a spoiled brat and take them up on the offer.


[quote="iFi]

*Why not "more modern and or better spec chip's?"*

Simple. On paper they may look great. But in practice, because they do not sound particularly good to our ears.

Designing a DAC or ADC Chip is a bit of a black art. Compare it to cooking. Everyone can boil water, few can make even a passable, never mind outstanding Crème brûlée.

Many ADC/DAC Chip's that deliver outstanding performance seem to result from lucky accidents, where someone in the big corporate hierarchy got it right.

They got it right either because they knew exactly what they are doing and design for sound quality (something that is not easily, if at all "measurable"), or by sheer accident (the million monkeys, million typewriters and Shakespeare gig). In the history of digital audio there have been a number of ADC and DAC Chip's (or discrete solutions) that were outstanding. 

The "exceptional sound quality DAC's cover all possible technologies.They range from antique "stacked" 4-Bit bipolar DAC's in the early Accuphase CD-Players and discrete resistor ladders in the Korean-made Fisher brand vertical loading CDP (in case you were wondering, similar to this one below) Thorsten still gets misty-eyed over the sound quality (it was uneconomic to repair in the late 90's).

They include the Cirrus Logic CS4328 and NPC SM5872 pure Bitstream (Delta Sigma) DAC's that were pioneering in the 90's.Their ranks feature stalwart multibit champions like the Philips TDA1541A (our all-time personal favourite), Burr Brown PCM63 (and it's grandson PCM1704) and the discrete Ultra Analog DAC modules. They range all the way to the original ESS ES9008 DAC (the "magic" seems to have dissipated somewhat in the ES9018 and a lot in the ES9018K2) and the gob-smackingly good (for the money) ES9023 which we use in the iDAC.

The PCM1793 and the PCM/DSD version DSD1793 are also in our view, part of this Pantheon. Despite somewhat less than outstanding technical specs, we found that a fairly simple implementation of this chip, with tube output stages and fed HD (PCM) audio was a serious challenger for a TDA1541 with tube output stage playing CD-Audio. Alas, the newer and supposedly superior TI Designed DAC's sold under the Burr Brown Brand are not their sonic equal. So we do not use them.

As for Spec's, our Thorsten has personally done the full Audio Precision 2 work-up on the final production level iDSD micro prototype (as it will be manufactured). He found that the A-Weighted SNR of the final version, with all tweaking and tuning came in at around 119dB, for a 2V analogue output level that is within a very small distance of what is physically possible.

Give the DSD1793 a really, really good PSU and operate it Dual-Mono, and you are not far off the spec's for the later stuff. Yet it sounds (to our ears) a whole lot "meatier" (read: good). And of course, it helps greatly that it does not manipulate the signal and keeps DSD and PCM as they are.
[/quote]


You can begin your education here: 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-and-the-new-firmware-flavours-are-here-page-138


----------



## Rearwing

gravenox said:


> The DSD1793 specs are just too low for a $500 dac. My denon av receiver have pcm1690 which has same SNR as DSD1793, I know the implementation is better on iFi but I don't expect a big difference. From what I understand, iFi wanted to do something that can play anything and they did it with the lowest cost possible (I don't want to enter into discussion how bad nano idsd jacks/volume control feels like, but sometimes I'm afraid when I plug something into the rca or jack, because the jacks are moving from place and it feels like it's gonna break. Response from ifi: Not all units are built the same. We cannot do nothing about it. End of story). At least it sounds good even if they didn't put some glue around jacks (or something else). Nano iDSD has 104 SNR, it's like they wanted to cut the dynamics (from 113). I know, I know, measurements don't tell the whole story.
> They could used PCM1792, DSD1792, PCM1795 (these have crazy numbers even if they are from same manufacturer), AK4490, CS4398, CS4364, CS4384, WM8741, WM8742 and maybe more. They all do DSD in the proper way.


 

 What a strange post. I did my research, liked what I heard and bought the equipment, you were/are at liberty to do the same. Free your mind!


----------



## youurayy

gravenox said:


> First time noticing that DSD1793 it's a chip released in 2003 so they used that old chip in a $500 DAC today which is kinda strange. I may not go with micro just because of this, there are so many chips out there and they go with the oldest one. I didn't even had a computer in 2003.


 
  
 I listen to my micro every single day since I bought it. It is so good that the only thing I'm not afraid to upgrade to is the Lampizator. The iFi guys are wizards.


----------



## HotIce

gravenox said:


> ... iFi wanted to do something that can play anything and they did it with the lowest cost possible ...


 
  
 You realize that for most of the "esoteric" DAC ICs you mentioned, the difference with the DSD1793, for 1+K units purchases price is in the order of $1...$5?
 It's hard to imagine that as driving decision on a $500+ class DAC.
 As far as SN ratios, have you actually listened it? To my ears it's as dark as it can be (so are many modern DACs decently designed).
 Circuit and PCB design matters far more than DAC IS SN ratio, as those are wayyy up there in the audible range.


----------



## sandalaudio

gravenox said:


> They could used PCM1792, DSD1792, PCM1795 (these have crazy numbers even if they are from same manufacturer)


 
  
 The DSD1793 chip used by iFi is a "voltage output" DAC, while the PCM1792 and PCM1795 are current output. The spec sheet numbers are not comparable, because current output DACs don't have I/V converter built into the DAC chip itself so they can go all out on evaluation circuits.
  
 In the iFi implementation of 1793, the chip just acts as a dumb worker running on external filter mode, so it is a pretty modern and intelligent choice even for today. Particularly if they wanted that classic Burr-Brown sound signature with voltage output then 1793 is still the best option.
  
 Yes it does tempt us to imagine what if iFi decided to use a PCM1792 and a separate discrete I/V stage etc, but then that's another story and not guaranteed to sound any better.
 IF PCM1792 is absolute must then we can always pick up a Fiio X5-II for $299, which has PCM1792 and fantastic opamp output stage, and music player software and LCD screen etc.. etc.. all for the great low price.
  
 Aside from the sound quality (which is subjective), the thing I'm most impressed with iFi is that their DSD256/DXD support is rock solid these days, and I can always trust it to play any file I throw at it without glitching. Also it is very tolerant to the quality of USB cable used. I can't say the same for a lot of "high end" USB DACs, which I have had countless issues with noise or drop-out for higher sample rates.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

hotice said:


> It would be awfully nice if some of you of the Batman Club would show up at A/B tests some time, to lay facts behind your statements.
> But you call always sick day when they happen.
> 
> When I mentioned about audio distortion audibility, I forgot to add some links, in case someone is interested.
> ...


 Would like to show up any day Im free. I just don't get why people would be so sure that a DAC cannot darken the sound. Yes they SHOULD not darken or brighten the sound, but would it be crazy if a $50 DAC sound the same as a $500 DAC? It's the "sound much better than products of the same prizes" and "sound on par with much pricier equipment" catchphrases that are the fugazi blight of this hobby. And people believe it just because there's no scientific way to prove anything. There're too many factors to take into consideration, including the file type, bit depth and the quality of the source recordings. And like I said, *you hear what you hear, so why bother?* Go see any doctor and ask them if your hearing ability, your eyesight and your smelling ability vary accordingly to your health and your mental state. Even channel balance will vary by person too. 
The Batclub joke is funny on earth 2, thanks.


----------



## HotIce

williamleonhart said:


> Would like to show up any day Im free. I just don't get why people would be so sure that a DAC cannot darken the sound. Yes they SHOULD not darken or brighten the sound, but would it be crazy if a $50 DAC sound the same as a $500 DAC? It's the "sound much better than products of the same prizes" and "sound on par with much pricier equipment" catchphrases that are the fugazi blight of this hobby. And people believe it just because there's no scientific way to prove anything. There're too many factors to take into consideration, including the file type, bit depth and the quality of the source recordings. And like I said, *you hear what you hear, so why bother?* Go see any doctor and ask them if your hearing ability, your eyesight and your smelling ability vary accordingly to your health and your mental state. Even channel balance will vary by person too.
> The Batclub joke is funny on earth 2, thanks.


 
  
 Sure you will show up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It seems you have not read any of the documents I posted the links, and the ones listed within the as reference (especially the distortion studies conducted on multiple population samples).
 But here are some easier to digest videos, which objective people would appreciate:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woU6_Pexoj0


----------



## Duncan

Very strange direction the past few posts have gone in... 

Better not tell all the fans of the TDA1541S2 DAC that its design is the best part of 35 years old...

Don't always chase the numbers, graphs or otherwise, but instead chase what sounds good to you...


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

hotice said:


> Sure you will show up
> It seems you have not read any of the documents I posted the links, and the ones listed within the as reference (especially the distortion studies conducted on multiple population samples).
> But here are some easier to digest videos, which objective people would appreciate:
> 
> ...


Yeah I will, just take into consideration that I live in VN, Malaysia and SG. 
And I have. Know what? People barely provide a good enough test case to begin with. Low impedance cans, low bitrate recordings or PCM for DSD dacs, then they say it all sound the same. Well point well proven. 
Honestly I refuse to waste my time on all these "researches" and youtube videos. Are they supposed to alter what I hear? Am I suppose to go *objective* when I my ears are personal?

PS: Instead of throwing out some studies can you actually explain what all of this has to do with the claims that all amps DACs sound the same? My point is simple: they don't sound the same, your hearing varies and you hear what you hear. Just kindly disprove it and I can happily sell off all my stuffs. Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

duncan said:


> Very strange direction the past few posts have gone in...
> 
> Better not tell all the fans of the TDA1541S2 DAC that its design is the best part of 35 years old...
> 
> Don't always chase the numbers, graphs or otherwise, but instead chase what sounds good to you...


 
  
 We couldn't agree more.
  
 The TDA1541A* S2 is the king in our book too as we use the 1541A in the CD-77, with among other things, Dynamic Element Matching to bring the linearity closer to the S2!
  

  
 Putting aside discussion about the merits of sonics for one moment, let's look at this from a business point of view:
  
Back then CD was in its infancy and vinyl was the dominant format (yes, some of us at AMR/iFi are THAT old!) And when CD was conceived, 'MultibIt' chipsets were produced at a time when _performance_ was the 1st priority. It was only when CD became the dominant format later on that _profit_ became the 1st criteria. One example is digital volume controls -  a digital volume control is only placed inside a DAC for one main reason; cost (certainly isn't for sound quality!)
  
 Getting back to the Burr-Brown in the micro iDSD, we use the last MultiBit chip developed by Burr-Brown Japan before the TI takeover.  Japanese attention to detail and fastidiousness meant this chip has a rather impressive sonic pedigree to it.
  
 So yes, we love MultiBit chipsets and are proud. 'Classic' or 'Cutting-Edge' we don't care. It just needs to pass the listening test.
  
*And this is before one gets bogged down in the the implementation of the TDA1541A which requires a lot of off-board components which allows for squeezing even more out!


----------



## HotIce

williamleonhart said:


> Yeah I will, just take into consideration that I live in VN, Malaysia and SG.
> And I have. Know what? People barely provide a good enough test case to begin with. Low impedance cans, low bitrate recordings or PCM for DSD dacs, then they say it all sound the same. Well point well proven.
> Honestly I refuse to waste my time on all these "researches" and youtube videos. Are they supposed to alter what I hear? Am I suppose to go *objective* when I my ears are personal?
> 
> PS: Instead of throwing out some studies can you actually explain what all of this has to do with the claims that all amps DACs sound the same? My point is simple: they don't sound the same, your hearing varies and you hear what you hear. Just kindly disprove it and I can happily sell off all my stuffs. Thanks


 
  
 I think your are confusing things, or intentionally trying to put in my mouth things I never said.
 Given the same sound A, individual X and Y, reacts to it in a very different way.
 Our transducers (ears) are all different, *and* our brains react differently to the same signal.
 This is why some people like Pop, other Country, and other again Classical music.
 OTOH, given sounds A and B, where D(t) = A(t) - B(t) < 1e-3, saying that individual X can tell the difference, kind of contradicts all the scientific studies (you know, the ones made by professional organizations, using real people, with no agenda behind their back) that have been done.
 And I have listed quite a few of them, for reference (and there are much more around - the myth thread here in head-fi contains quite a bit of them).
 OTOH, can you point me to one scientifically conducted A/B test, where folks have been able to tell apart audio signals which differ for less than 1e-3?


----------



## rickyleelee

hotice said:


> I think your are confusing things, or intentionally trying to put in my mouth things I never said.
> Given the same sound A, individual X and Y, reacts to it in a very different way.
> Our transducers (ears) are all different, *and* our brains react differently to the same signal.
> This is why some people like Pop, other Country, and other again Classical music.
> ...




No need to argue subjective or objective as on a forum, No one convinces the other side so why bother. Like others said, don't buy if this chip is too old for you. waste of solar time and cosmic energy. chill man.


----------



## Rearwing

rickyleelee said:


> No need to argue subjective or objective as on a forum, No one convinces the other side so why bother. Like others said, don't buy if this chip is too old for you. waste of solar time and cosmic energy. chill man.


 

 This sentiment could be used on 85% of the threads on here!
  
 Sit back and listen to the groove..................


----------



## RedJohn456

hotice said:


> I think your are confusing things, or intentionally trying to put in my mouth things I never said.
> Given the same sound A, individual X and Y, reacts to it in a very different way.
> Our transducers (ears) are all different, *and* our brains react differently to the same signal.
> This is why some people like Pop, other Country, and other again Classical music.
> ...




Wrong section of the forum mate. Also generally speaking not all scientific papers are of the highest quality, so it's good to critically evaluate if findings are statistically significant or recognize study design flaws or biases. All good an fun to keep linking and quoting studies but unless it's a meta analysis I wouldn't put too much weight behind these individual papers.


----------



## RedJohn456

Also I can easily tell the difference between my FiiO x7 and the Micro iDSD with line out to my desktop amp. 

So I am not sure how anyone can say that all dacs sounds the same?


----------



## HotIce

redjohn456 said:


> Wrong section of the forum mate. Also generally speaking not all scientific papers are of the highest quality, so it's good to critically evaluate if findings are statistically significant or recognize study design flaws or biases. All good an fun to keep linking and quoting studies but unless it's a meta analysis I wouldn't put too much weight behind these individual papers.


 
  
 Statistics. I love statistics.
 You can find on the net (the ones I linked, and the ones the links link themselves, are only a small part of it) a lot of scientifically conducted (as is, again, real people, no agenda, some basic knowledge of physical processes and theory of measure) studies which shows the inability of the human ear to pick apart signals when the delta is under a given range.
 I would say a statistically significant number.
 Can you point me to a single, scientifically conducted study, where scientists and audiophiles got together, and verified that human hearing can indeed take apart audio signals which differ, say, less than 1e-3 (or even 1e-2, FWIW)?


----------



## technobear

hotice said:


> redjohn456 said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong section of the forum mate. Also generally speaking not all scientific papers are of the highest quality, so it's good to critically evaluate if findings are statistically significant or recognize study design flaws or biases. All good an fun to keep linking and quoting studies but unless it's a meta analysis I wouldn't put too much weight behind these individual papers.
> ...




Like the previous poster said... this is the micro iDSD thread.

Please take it somewhere else: http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science


----------



## RedJohn456

hotice said:


> Statistics. I love statistics.
> You can find on the net (the ones I linked, and the ones the links link themselves, are only a small part of it) a lot of scientifically conducted (as is, again, real people, no agenda, some basic knowledge of physical processes and theory of measure) studies which shows the inability of the human ear to pick apart signals when the delta is under a given range.
> I would say a statistically significant number.
> Can you point me to a single, scientifically conducted study, where scientists and audiophiles got together, and verified that human hearing can indeed take apart audio signals which differ, say, less than 1e-3 (or even 1e-2, FWIW)?


 

 This thread has already gone way off track and I dont want to incur the wrath of the mods, but I will say from my experience and medically speaking, these studies rely on the fact that human hearing can be standardized, When it really cannot, at least not uniformly across the board. Hence why audiograms are used diagnostically because we have been able to standardize its application and account for patient hearing variations.
  
 Remember the whole blue and black vs white and gold dress debacle not too long ago? And thats what we know of so far. So that to me nullifies these studies in being able to conclusively conclude one way or another whether human hearing can tell apart these audio signals or not. Which is a lot more nuanced as it included the entire auditory tract from the outer ear all the way to the auditory cortex and believe you me, there are enough variations in human anatomy to be able to safely conclude that no two people hear or see exactly the same. 

 That is all I will say on this matter as this discussion is better suited to the science forum and its taking away from what the thread is meant for, discussing the iDSD Micro.
  
  
  
 Speaking of which, I STILL havent fully run out of juice despite it running for hours at a time, albeit connected to my MacBook. Tried it with my PS3 the other night and hot dang does it bring the games to life. Gamers should def give it a chance


----------



## youurayy

hotice said:


> Statistics. I love statistics.
> You can find on the net (the ones I linked, and the ones the links link themselves, are only a small part of it) a lot of scientifically conducted (as is, again, real people, no agenda, some basic knowledge of physical processes and theory of measure) studies which shows the inability of the human ear to pick apart signals when the delta is under a given range.
> I would say a statistically significant number.
> Can you point me to a single, scientifically conducted study, where scientists and audiophiles got together, and verified that human hearing can indeed take apart audio signals which differ, say, less than 1e-3 (or even 1e-2, FWIW)?


 
  
 That's not what you said. You said that all amps sound the same. You did not even say "solid state amps". Which, if you say that about tube amps, then you should probably be worried about your hearing being damaged or something.
  
 In the 3 links you posted, one is unrelated, one is dead (and questionable since we don't know how sensitive speakers were used, and how experienced the people were in discerning sound) and one is about a guy who claimed that he can duplicate a sound of any expensive solid state amp by a DIY amp with cheaper components (again, totally unrelated).
  
 If you think THD is all there is to an amp, that's fine with me, I just think you should find a different thread to evangelize.
 What is the point telling someone your subjective opinion, when all opinions are subjective, because all are based on one's own perception, which is subjective?
 Throwing "science" around won't help, because the brain science to reverse-engineer human perception simply is not there yet.
  
 Also please be civil, no need to call people names like "the batman club".
  
 Here, two amps compared -- please go tell the guy he is dreaming and that all amps sound the same -- go ahead: https://headmania.org/2016/09/27/ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amplifier-review/


----------



## HotIce

technobear said:


> Like the previous poster said... this is the micro iDSD thread.
> 
> Please take it somewhere else: http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science


 
 Agreed.
 I would wish you'd make the same remarks to folks which tailed this thread after my post, with unrelated conclusions, up to putting in my mouth things I have never said, in the hope of getting a point, which would have never gotten if the conversation were to be continued of a scientific path.


----------



## iFi audio

redjohn456 said:


> Tried it with my PS3 the other night and hot dang does it bring the games to life. Gamers should def give it a chance


 
  
 We had PS4 > micro iDSD > Senn HD650s at this year's Gadget Show and the kids wouldn't get off Battlefield 4. We heard a kid say ' I can locate the snipers as I can tell where they are firing from.'  Another kid said, ' I heard a grenade explode 50 yards behind me, awesome.'
  
 It did make our day. The only thing that didnt make our day was when they fought over the controller as they waited patiently but some wouldn't come off the machine! One of them got a ticking off as he threw the controller at a kid and it hit the monitor screen. Kids!


----------



## internaught

Wondering if there is any way to clean/fix these marks on my Micro... Not sure how it happened, but I think my laptop was involved. 
  
 They're either from the rubber feet on the bottom of my macbook pro or it was metal on metal rubbing :/
  
 Is there any way to buff these out? I'm not sure if they're marks or scratches...


----------



## Amalz

Hello Guys,
  
 If i plug the micro idsd to my pc through the usb cable that provided with the box while im listening it will be charge up fully and stay 100% till a detach the usb cable?
  
 What is the difference between the 2 mods USB Power Mode and Battery Power Mode?


----------



## ClieOS

amalz said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> If i plug the micro idsd to my pc through the usb cable that provided with the box while im listening it will be charge up fully and stay 100% till a detach the usb cable?


 
  
 If your PC's USB ports support BC1.2, then yes. If not, no - though if you are using micro iDSD in Eco mode, it is very unlikely you will able to drain it in any significant way. This topic has been covered many times in the past in this thread, you might want to search them out.
  
 If your PC doesn't have BC1.2 but you want it, you can also buy an USB hub that supports it.


----------



## doctorcilantro

My iDSD has stopped working reporting some kind of driver issue; just after a slew of Windows 10 updates.
  
 Anyone else?


----------



## utee05

I have had issues with mine after updating to osx sierra. I have not updated the firmware so that'll be my first step but anyone else experience issues? I have had to unplug my iDSD a couple of times to resolve static issues. I am using the blue USB cable that came with the device.


----------



## DarktoreS

Kennerton Odin, Focal Elear, Beyerdynamic T1 gen2, Focal Utopia; Hifiman HE1000-V2, Dharma D1000, Kennerton Vali... Is not problem for the iFi iCan SE with my iTube and IDSD Micro !


----------



## chawya22

utee05 said:


> I have had issues with mine after updating to osx sierra. I have not updated the firmware so that'll be my first step but anyone else experience issues? I have had to unplug my iDSD a couple of times to resolve static issues. I am using the blue USB cable that came with the device.


 

 I also recently updated to Sierra but am not having any problems with my iDSD. I am, as far as know, running the latest FW. You might want to check your default settings in the "Audio Midi Settings" in the Sierra utilities folder and verify the Bit/Sampling rate. One other option is to try resetting the Pram (NVRAM) when restarting your Mac. Search procedure on Google.


----------



## utee05

chawya22 said:


> I also recently updated to Sierra but am not having any problems with my iDSD. I am, as far as know, running the latest FW. You might want to check your default settings in the "Audio Midi Settings" in the Sierra utilities folder and verify the Bit/Sampling rate. One other option is to try resetting the Pram (NVRAM) when restarting your Mac. Search procedure on Google.


 
 Thanks. I had forgotten to check those settings. My default is 32bit 192k. I am not sure if this changed from previous OSX but I'll reset the NVRAM as well. Won't hurt to do that.


----------



## iFi audio

utee05 said:


> I have had issues with mine after updating to osx sierra. I have not updated the firmware so that'll be my first step but anyone else experience issues? I have had to unplug my iDSD a couple of times to resolve static issues. I am using the blue USB cable that came with the device.


 
  
 utee05, we tried on a Windows10 based PC, loaded with full batch of updates. Everything still works as it should do. Tested on Asus SonicMaster laptop.


----------



## iFi audio

RMAF 2016 this year is a *BIG* event for us!!
  
 We'll be unveiling a number of products that we're very excited about! Here's a sneak peek at just a few of those products!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

They all look nice. But is there an idsd micro 2 soon?


----------



## howdy

williamleonhart said:


> They all look nice. But is there an idsd micro 2 soon?



I heard there is one coming soon.


----------



## RedJohn456

ifi audio said:


> We had PS4 > micro iDSD > Senn HD650s at this year's Gadget Show and the kids wouldn't get off Battlefield 4. We heard a kid say ' I can locate the snipers as I can tell where they are firing from.'  Another kid said, ' I heard a grenade explode 50 yards behind me, awesome.'
> 
> It did make our day. The only thing that didnt make our day was when they fought over the controller as they waited patiently but some wouldn't come off the machine! One of them got a ticking off as he threw the controller at a kid and it hit the monitor screen. Kids!


 
  
 You have created little monsters  These kids are gonna be bugging their parents for HD650s and the iDSD Micro now haha! I myself find it hard to game without the Micro iDSD hooked up, it's just so darn immersive! 
  
 Up until now I have only tried the AKG K7XX with the Micro iDSD for gaming but this coming weekend I will try HD600, AQ Nighthawks and Beyer DT150 to see how they get on. I don't know if you follow gaming closely but sponsorships of big youtubers and gamers on youtube and twitch is a really big thing now, with them promoting certain controllers, headphones etc. Would be pretty darn cool to see a couple of them being sponsored by iFi and rocking the Micro iDSD while streaming gameplay! Its a really big thing now.


----------



## Babulilm

Babulilm
Hi

Would anyone here have experience of running alpha primes with a micro idsd ? Any impressions of how well these two pair up ?


----------



## DarktoreS

Beyer A20+ IDSD vs Ican SE+iTube+IDSD test this weekend


----------



## Rearwing

Very nice, have fun!


----------



## novice

Anybody compared this *MICRO* iDSD and *NANO* iDSD _just for DAC section only_? As in take an amp, any _one_ amp and compare using these two feeding signal?


----------



## Rearwing

Yes, I have both and have used them both to feed two of my amps on separate occasions as I was deciding which to have in my office rig and which to have in my bedroom rig.
  
 On each occasion my ears preferred the sound of the Micro to the Nano. However, I must be transparent and say that there may be an element of bias, in that I only have one piece from the Nano range and several Micro units which may result in an unconscious lean towards the Micro iDSD.
  
 On each occasion I ensured that the settings were as "equal" as possible and I conducted my listening at the same time of day with equal numbers of electrical items powered up in the household. I fed both from my MacBook Pro and used the same testing tracks.
  
 I like to hear the spaces between notes especially and listen to a range of genres, but return to guitar players with blues influences as my main listening pleasure.
  
 The Micro gave me more timbre and a more holistic rendition to the test tracks, it revealed greater warmth, attack and delay in the notes and a blacker background than the Nano.
  
 But, I still have both and enjoy the results that they give, but I would rather listen to the Micro when I have the time for total absorption and want to hear as much as my ears and equipment can give me.


----------



## novice

rearwing said:


> Yes, I have both and have used them both to feed two of my amps on separate occasions as I was deciding which to have in my office rig and which to have in my bedroom rig.
> 
> On each occasion my ears preferred the sound of the Micro to the Nano. However, I must be transparent and say that there may be an element of bias, in that I only have one piece from the Nano range and several Micro units which may result in an unconscious lean towards the Micro iDSD.
> 
> ...




Thank you!


----------



## proedros

anyone here using idsd micro with *ciems *?

 i have (reference-sounding) NT6 and waiting EE Athena , curious if idsd would be a good match or an overkill , since idsd is mostly made for phones ?

 thanx for any feedback


----------



## Aegruin

proedros said:


> anyone here using idsd micro with *ciems *?
> 
> i have (reference-sounding) NT6 and waiting EE Athena , curious if idsd would be a good match or an overkill , since idsd is mostly made for phones ?
> 
> thanx for any feedback


 
 iDSD has a thing called iEMatch. It's for sensitive IEMs and CIEMs. So iDSD is also for sensitive little things. I don't think it'll be a problem.


----------



## cav1sa

My iDSD works great with Custom Art Harmony 8 Pro. It's rock solid, sounds great, has tons of features. It's just not super portable, so I don't carry it around.


----------



## chemgod

Hello all I'm new here,

I just got into the hifi world. Bought a pair of HD 598 a year ago and with the new iPhone 7 losing the headphone jack I decided to try a DAC. I bought the Audioquest Dragonfly Black v1.5 and have been blown away. Next I saw a deal for the iFi Micro iDsd and just received it tonight. Have to say I think I'm a little disappointed and prefer the Dragonfly. The separation and detail seem to be much better with the Dragonfly although I'm not sure I have the iFi setup correctly since it has more options. For the HD 598s it seems almost too powerful. I have it set to "Eco" as well as the IEM set to "high sensitivity". I can't hear much difference with the Filter options. I'm listening to Tidal in Hifi quality.

Does this amp/DAC need better headphones than HD 598 to shine, or is the Dragonfly that good? Do I need a better source than Tidal? Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm thinking of returning the iFi and trying out the Chord Mojo.


----------



## youurayy

chemgod said:


> Hello all I'm new here,
> 
> I just got into the hifi world. Bought a pair of HD 598 a year ago and with the new iPhone 7 losing the headphone jack I decided to try a DAC. I bought the Audioquest Dragonfly Black v1.5 and have been blown away. Next I saw a deal for the iFi Micro iDsd and just received it tonight. Have to say I think I'm a little disappointed and prefer the Dragonfly. The separation and detail seem to be much better with the Dragonfly although I'm not sure I have the iFi setup correctly since it has more options. For the HD 598s it seems almost too powerful. I have it set to "Eco" as well as the IEM set to "high sensitivity". I can't hear much difference with the Filter options. I'm listening to Tidal in Hifi quality.
> 
> Does this amp/DAC need better headphones than HD 598 to shine, or is the Dragonfly that good? Do I need a better source than Tidal? Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm thinking of returning the iFi and trying out the Chord Mojo.


 
 Leave the IEM switch off (lower the volume on the phone if needed). Give it some time to burn in (very important), let it play overnight or so. Give some time to your expectations / brain to adapt. Disable upsampling / resampling on the phone if any. Charge the unit fully before first play. With any new amp, try out more headphones, even if you keep using the original ones. I'd give it a week of use before returning it, if sound quality is your only gripe with it.


----------



## chemgod

youurayy said:


> Leave the IEM switch off (lower the volume on the phone if needed). Give it some time to burn in (very important), let it play overnight or so. Give some time to your expectations / brain to adapt. Disable upsampling / resampling on the phone if any. Charge the unit fully before first play. With any new amp, try out more headphones, even if you keep using the original ones. I'd give it a week of use before returning it, if sound quality is your only gripe with it.


Thanks I will give it some more time and try the burn in. I don't have access to any better headphones though.


----------



## youurayy

chemgod said:


> Thanks I will give it some more time and try the burn in. I don't have access to any better headphones though.


 
 Don't have to be better. With a new amp you may discover that you like the headphones you previously didn't like, and vice versa. Variety is the spice of life, or something like that. But mostly I suggest the exercise so you get better idea how the iFi sounds like.


----------



## peter123

chemgod said:


> Thanks I will give it some more time and try the burn in. I don't have access to any better headphones though.




Although I didn't have the HD598 at the time I had the Micro around I can see these two not being a great match. Both are quite laid back and lacking some dynamics (IMHO and compared to more expensive offerings) which could easily lead to a too laid back presentation lacking energy. Just must 2c......


----------



## rayquaza

Hi.. Does anyone know if this combo works? If i connect the micro idsd output(RCA)to the new schiit Jotunheim. Then headphone out(balanced output) to my Audeze lcd 2. Anyone tried a similar combo? Thanks..


----------



## technobear

rayquaza said:


> Hi.. Does anyone know if this combo works? If i connect the micro idsd output(RCA)to the new schiit Jotunheim. Then headphone out(balanced output) to my Audeze lcd 2. Anyone tried a similar combo? Thanks..




Of course it works.

iDSD has single-ended RCA output

Jotenheim has a single-ended RCA input

Why would it not work?


----------



## goldsmith83

Hi, I'm not been following this thread but recently by looking for an amp and dac for both desktop and portable use I've taken an interest in the iDSD Micro, nevertheless I've got some doubts I can't clear up by myself on this device. I currently have only iems to listen to but I'm thinking of buying the Fidelio X2, the AKG K7XX or a full size headset like that. I wonder wether the iDSD Micro is worthwhile rather than opting for the iDSD Nano that is much cheaper and for what I've read it's quite good and powerful for its price and investing the difference on other gears and equipment. I've also thought about the iDAC2 Micro, halfway between the two latter and even about dacs and amps of another brands I'm interested in like the HA-2SE. The issue with the iDAC2 is for what I've understood it has no built-in battery and is USB powered for which is a fully desktop dac/amp, correct me if I'm wrong. The question is wether the difference in sound quality and power of the iDSD Micro above the iDSD Nano/iDAC2 Micro/HA-2SE are worth to spend the price difference since the three latter may supply me what I need.


----------



## rantzmar

I have been using my micro idsd DAC and iusb 3.0 in my two channel system for about 2 years. Now I'm getting a PSAudio Nuwave DSD DAC and have been using the IDSD iusb 3.0 as a portable with a pair of Denon AH-D600 over ear headphones streaming music from server/Jriver to my iPad and listening that way...sounds great! But have been thinking of going even more portable with A DAP... iBasso X80 with the iDSD/iUSB3.0. my question. Seeing I'm using the ifi gear will I be better served buying a lesser DAP due to using amp and DAC in ifi gear rather than iBasso? If so, what would you recommend? Thanks.


----------



## chillaxing

rantzmar said:


> I have been using my micro idsd DAC and iusb 3.0 in my two channel system for about 2 years. Now I'm getting a PSAudio Nuwave DSD DAC and have been using the IDSD iusb 3.0 as a portable with a pair of Denon AH-D600 over ear headphones streaming music from server/Jriver to my iPad and listening that way...sounds great! But have been thinking of going even more portable with A DAP... iBasso X80 with the iDSD/iUSB3.0. my question. Seeing I'm using the ifi gear will I be better served buying a lesser DAP due to using amp and DAC in ifi gear rather than iBasso? If so, what would you recommend? Thanks.


 
  
  
 use a old android phone or iphone.  You just need a source connecting to the idsd and let the idsd do all the work.
  
 I use a iphone 5 or lg g3 to connect to mine.


----------



## rantzmar

Hi chillaxing.

So the DAP doing just source duty without amp/DAC section would be no better than a old Digital phone?


----------



## chillaxing

yup, you just need something that will play the file and transfer the info to the idsd to let it do the converting.


----------



## rantzmar

Cool....thanks!


----------



## chillaxing

if your using android just make sure its on on 4.0 (kitkat) or higher.  Also if your using a android you will want to use apps like UAPP or Onkyo HF so it doesn't upsample your files.  Apple, you don't have to worry about stuff like that.


----------



## rantzmar

Thanks.


----------



## goldsmith83

Thank you guys for kindly ignoring my post, the next time I need some help with the iFi gears I know where to not seek it. I'll try to settle my doubts elsewhere on my own and report on this thread the outcome of my research.


----------



## gelocks

goldsmith83 said:


> Thank you guys for kindly ignoring my post, the next time I need some help with the iFi gears I know where to not seek it. I'll try to settle my doubts elsewhere on my own and report on this thread the outcome of my research.




Aaawwww someone's in need of attention!!! You do know that not everyone has every Ifi unit in the world and if they do, they still probably have a life and don't come to head-fi every single day...



> The question is wether the difference in sound quality and power of the iDSD Micro above the iDSD Nano/iDAC2 Micro/HA-2SE are worth to spend the price difference since the three latter may supply me what I need.




You are the only one who can tell what's worthy or not. Buy the unit you have a need for (i.e. form factor, battery for portable use or not, etc. ) and decide if you like the sound or not. If you do, then that's it...


----------



## cav1sa

goldsmith83 said:


> Thank you guys for kindly ignoring my post, the next time I need some help with the iFi gears I know where to not seek it. I'll try to settle my doubts elsewhere on my own and report on this thread the outcome of my research.


 
 Awwww so cute!
 Patience is a virtue. It will come to you in time as you grow and mature 
 I suspect that for the types of headphones you're listing, the differences between the nano and micro will be hard to point out. In my view this boils down to whether you want to focus on getting good equipment for right now or if you would like to future proof it, so when in a few years you start looking at TOTL headphones, your DAC section will be ready.
  
 I am one of those who like to future proof their audio equipment due to the following benefits:

Reduces amount of mid-fi items you end up with over time, some of which end up gathering dust.
Related to the point above, reduces amount of CL / Head-Fi ads you need to deal with to sell your old crap
You get to experience the higher-end stuff right away, not in X years
  
 Obviously this also comes at a cost. I purchased my iDSD micro for $500 some 2 years ago. Now I could get the same unit for around $350. Another problem related to cost and timing is the impact that $500 has on your budget. Younger audiophiles tend to be more conservative with their spending (for good reason!), while older, professionally established and financially secure ones can more easily afford to drop $ on a TOTL setup.
  
 Other stuff to consider:
 The iDSD micro isn't super portable. Sure, I can put it in my bag on my way to work, set it up on the desk there and use it right away, but true portability to me means putting it in my back pocket so I can use it on my way to work. For this reason I leave the iDSD micro at home and use a fiio x7 for truly portable applications.
 iDSD micro has a really well implemented 3d holo sound and bass boost, while nano doesn't
  
 My advice to you is to patiently wait a couple of weeks and see if you can get a black Friday deal on a iDSD micro.


----------



## youurayy

the walrus said:


> I have the "B" firmware installed so micro doesn't go to sleep mode and doesn't steel from my phone's battery. All is well.
> But when I turn the micro off , I see that little blue light, which if I'm not mistaken means he is stealing again!
> Is there a workaround for this? It's so annoying to detach the cable or turn the phone off every time.


 
 I'm also having problems with the B firmware. The charging disable in sleep mode seems not to work at all.
  
 Besides the problem you describe, it seems to drain my phone battery very fast.
  
 Additionally, with iPhone 5s, the phone wakes up randomly when the iDSD is turned off, draining its battery even faster.
  
 Tried 5.2B and 5.1B.


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> the walrus said:
> 
> 
> > I have the "B" firmware installed so micro doesn't go to sleep mode and doesn't steel from my phone's battery. All is well.
> ...




When the iDSD is turned off, it will charge if a USB voltage is available. If this were not so, it would be impossible to ever charge the iDSD. This is part of the design. If you don't want it to charge then you must unplug it.

With the B firmware, there is no sleep mode so what exactly are you trying to describe?


----------



## youurayy

technobear said:


> When the iDSD is turned off, it will charge if a USB voltage is available. If this were not so, it would be impossible to ever charge the iDSD. This is part of the design. If you don't want it to charge then you must unplug it.
> 
> With the B firmware, there is no sleep mode so what exactly are you trying to describe?


 
 My mistake.
  
 So what is the sleep mode? When the micro is "turned on" but no signal is sent to it?
  
 And when I connect the micro to the phone already turned on, then after I turn it off (without disconnecting), will it remember that it should not take power from the phone?


----------



## gikigill

goldsmith83 said:


> Thank you guys for kindly ignoring my post, the next time I need some help with the iFi gears I know where to not seek it. I'll try to settle my doubts elsewhere on my own and report on this thread the outcome of my research.




I could answer it but that wall of text prevented me from seeing your question. Can you please repeat your query with some paragraphs and punctuation.


----------



## technobear

gikigill said:


> goldsmith83 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you guys for kindly ignoring my post, the next time I need some help with the iFi gears I know where to not seek it. I'll try to settle my doubts elsewhere on my own and report on this thread the outcome of my research.
> ...




He did make a request that we correct him if he was wrong about the iDAC2 not having a battery. He wasn't wrong so we didn't correct him.

As for nano iDSD and micro iDSD, all the information is on the iFi Audio website and he has clearly read it already.

What he appears to be asking is 'Can I get a free lunch by buying the nano instead of the micro?' to which the answer is obviously 'No'.

The micro has XBASS, 3D, optical and coaxial inputs, vastly more power, a bigger battery, twin DAC chips, IEMatch, a better output stage, built-in iPurifier, etc.


----------



## technobear

youurayy said:


> And when I connect the micro to the phone already turned on, then after I turn it off (without disconnecting), will it remember that it should not take power from the phone?







technobear said:


> When the iDSD is turned off, it will charge if a USB voltage is available. If this were not so, it would be impossible to ever charge the iDSD. This is part of the design. If you don't want it to charge then you must unplug it.


----------



## youurayy

technobear said:


>


 
 Got that thanks. Wish there was a switch on the micro to prevent charging.


----------



## goldsmith83

gelocks said:


> Aaawwww someone's in need of attention!!! You do know that not everyone has every Ifi unit in the world and if they do, they still probably have a life and don't come to head-fi every single day...


 
  First I want to clarify that my last post wasn't a complain out of impatience but out of my conviction after over 24h. of wait that no one would ever respond since it wouldn't have been the first time this happens to me on head-fi threads. It's not as much that I was impatient or eager to get a reply as the fact that rubs me the wrong way that it's very rude to ignore someone's comment as if it were invisible.



> You are the only one who can tell what's worthy or not. Buy the unit you have a need for (i.e. form factor, battery for portable use or not, etc. ) and decide if you like the sound or not. If you do, then that's it...


 
 Ok, I'll have to choose a couple of those devices to buy and decide which one I like more.
  


cav1sa said:


> Awwww so cute!
> Patience is a virtue. It will come to you in time as you grow and mature


 
 Are you calling me cute? That's a new experience in life to me! Well I'm afraid I shall never mature mentally.
  


cav1sa said:


> I am one of those who like to future proof their audio equipment due to the following benefits:
> 
> Reduces amount of mid-fi items you end up with over time, some of which end up gathering dust.
> Related to the point above, reduces amount of CL / Head-Fi ads you need to deal with to sell your old crap
> You get to experience the higher-end stuff right away, not in X years


 
 Future proof is precisely the idea that prowled around my head. iDSD nano may be enough to me at this moment but if sooner or later one will go for high-end equipment, be it now. I agree that is better to have few expensive and well selected devices than heaps of mid-fi hardware.


cav1sa said:


> Other stuff to consider:
> The iDSD micro isn't super portable. Sure, I can put it in my bag on my way to work, set it up on the desk there and use it right away, but true portability to me means putting it in my back pocket so I can use it on my way to work. For this reason I leave the iDSD micro at home and use a fiio x7 for truly portable applications.
> iDSD micro has a really well implemented 3d holo sound and bass boost, while nano doesn't


 
 I don't care too much for portability, for that purpose I think daps are better than dac/amp + transport.
 What I'm not sure about is wether I'll need the 3D holographic feature. I've read certain opinions that claim it manipulates natural music sound, etc. I bet it will be great for movies and videogames though.


----------



## cav1sa

goldsmith83 said:


> ..
> 
> What I'm not sure about is wether I'll need the 3D holographic feature. I've read certain opinions that claim it manipulates natural music sound, etc. I bet it will be great for movies and videogames though.


 
 It does manipulate the sound and the effect works differently depending on the equipment you're using and source material. For example it works really well on most tracks with LCD-2F and HD650, but on TOTL ciems, not so much.
 I like having the option to use it. Totally worth it IMHO. If you're on the fence, try it out before you decide!


----------



## goldsmith83

cav1sa said:


> It does manipulate the sound and the effect works differently depending on the equipment you're using and source material. For example it works really well on most tracks with LCD-2F and HD650, but on TOTL ciems, not so much.
> I like having the option to use it. Totally worth it IMHO. If you're on the fence, try it out before you decide!


 

 3D effect is also present in iCan nano and micro. It definitely looks promising.
 The good thing about iDSD micro is it combines most features of iFi devices in one and in spite of its size is more portable than iDSD nano+iCan nano or iDac micro+iCan micro.
 Maybe I should purchase both iDSD micro and nano and compare them by myself.


----------



## potkettleblack

Has anybody compared the mojo to the idsd micro?
  
 I have just put my idsd micro up for sale because I wont be using it for a long while and was curious for the future if I should re-purchase or go with the Mojo.


----------



## howdy

potkettleblack said:


> Has anybody compared the mojo to the idsd micro?
> 
> I have just put my idsd micro up for sale because I wont be using it for a long while and was curious for the future if I should re-purchase or go with the Mojo.



I had both and prefer the Micro any day over Mojo, I do have my eyes on the Hugo though!


----------



## gikigill

Is it possible to get the Ifi iDSD Micro MSDS for the lithium battery. I'm bringing one over from the USA and Customs wants a copy of the MSDS.


----------



## howdy

gikigill said:


> Is it possible to get the Ifi iDSD Micro MSDS for the lithium battery. I'm bringing one over from the USA and Customs wants a copy of the MSDS.


 
 That seems like a strange request, there would probably only be a MSDS for the battery only.


----------



## gikigill

Yup, MSDS for the battery.


----------



## guzmanatm

goldsmith83 said:


> 3D effect is also present in iCan nano and micro. It definitely looks promising.
> ...


 
 My understanding is that the 3D works similar to 'openback' headphones but geared towards 'closed back'. So if you are using a closed back headphone it will give a more 3D sound. I personally don't use it because my primary headphone are LCD-X which already has plenty of air and depth


----------



## cav1sa

potkettleblack said:


> Has anybody compared the mojo to the idsd micro?
> 
> I have just put my idsd micro up for sale because I wont be using it for a long while and was curious for the future if I should re-purchase or go with the Mojo.


 
 I have and wasn't impressed with the Mojo. SQ-wise they were too close for me to discern between the two during my short stint with it. I returned the mojo very quickly, because it *could not *work as a desktop DAC for me - it would overheat and turn itself off regularly when used while being charged at the same time. Granted, I was testing it during the summertime, but that was a huge issue for me, one that was never pointed out in any of the reviews I had read beforehand.
 Another problem I had with the Mojo was the volume controls. I consider micro's way of handling volume levels vastly superior to the color scheme employed by Chord. During my first few days with the Mojo, when I wasn't used to reading the colors properly, I haphazardly plugged in my ciems to it after listening to LCD-2F on it the night before and blasted my ears for a split second. This has never happened with the micro.


----------



## goldsmith83

guzmanatm said:


> My understanding is that the 3D works similar to 'openback' headphones but geared towards 'closed back'. So if you are using a closed back headphone it will give a more 3D sound. I personally don't use it because my primary headphone are LCD-X which already has plenty of air and depth


 

 In my case I'm bound to the closed back since unfortunately my home is not very silent and I can't stand to hear the environmental noises while I'm listening to my music; so 3D will be perfectly suitable to me.


----------



## technobear

goldsmith83 said:


> guzmanatm said:
> 
> 
> > My understanding is that the [COLOR=333333]3D works similar to 'openback' headphones but geared towards 'closed back'. So if you are using a closed back headphone it will give a more 3D sound. I personally don't use it because my primary headphone are LCD-X which already has plenty of air and depth [/COLOR]
> ...




It is, as you surmised, very good with movies.


----------



## gikigill

I would like to thank ifi for their quick response to my MSDS query. Brilliant customer service on their behalf. This is my second ifi product and won't be the last.

The iDSD Pro looks tempting but I'll have to audition one before I go ahead at that price.


----------



## lieshout

@guzmanatm: regarding ifi idsd and mojo:

I have had them both for about a year. And eventually sold the ifi. 
The ifi has more power. And has so many options that it is a fun device to play with.
But I draw the conclusion that the mojo is a better dac. (This is my personal opinion of course)


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

cav1sa said:


> I have and wasn't impressed with the Mojo. SQ-wise they were too close for me to discern between the two during my short stint with it. I returned the mojo very quickly, because it *could not* work as a desktop DAC for me - it would overheat and turn itself off regularly when used while being charged at the same time. Granted, I was testing it during the summertime, but that was a huge issue for me, one that was never pointed out in any of the reviews I had read beforehand.
> Another problem I had with the Mojo was the volume controls. I consider micro's way of handling volume levels vastly superior to the color scheme employed by Chord. During my first few days with the Mojo, when I wasn't used to reading the colors properly, I haphazardly plugged in my ciems to it after listening to LCD-2F on it the night before and blasted my ears for a split second. This has never happened with the micro.







lieshout said:


> @guzmanatm: regarding ifi idsd and mojo:
> 
> I have had them both for about a year. And eventually sold the ifi.
> The ifi has more power. And has so many options that it is a fun device to play with.
> But I draw the conclusion that the mojo is a better dac. (This is my personal opinion of course)


 I would concur with both opinions. The Mojo sounds like a tiny better DACs but it just has too many usability problems. For me, it's the heat problem that turns me off the most. But in the end, if you're going to use these 2 as dac-amp combo, the difference is not huge.


----------



## canali

i'm thinking of buying DSD music...i hear the pickings are relatively slim to what you'd get via flac downloads. etc.
 ...but i have iDSD (and mojo) and thought, what the hell: might as well explore that music.
  
 can anyone point me to some good sites to buy from, please?
  
 bottom line:
 I'm trying to get off of streaming (or at least have a more balanced approach) and get more into 
 better produced cds, flac and dsd.


----------



## youurayy

canali said:


> i'm thinking of buying DSD music...i hear the pickings are relatively slim to what you'd get via flac downloads. etc.
> ...but i have iDSD (and mojo) and thought, what the hell: might as well explore that music.
> 
> can anyone point me to some good sites to buy from, please?
> ...


 
 nativedsd.com
  
 streaming is (usually) a plague but a good mp3 or flac pre-rendered to DSD512 on the fly are just as good as DSD imo.


----------



## canali

youurayy said:


> nativedsd.com
> 
> streaming is (usually) a plague but a good mp3 or flac pre-rendered to DSD512 on the fly are just as good as DSD imo.


 
  
 great...thanks...
 streaming has opened me up to alot of new music...so it's great for that.
 but with having good equipment i just want to take advantage of their capabilities.
 just ordered a while ago 2x 24/196 flac downloads from 7 digital...so i'm getting there...albeit slowly 
  
 now just have to read up on how to do such (pre-render)...
 have ipod touch 6 as storage (with chord mojo)...using ifi micro at home from laptop


----------



## rantzmar

Also if you like you can always go over to acousticsounds.com to buy and download some DSD files. They have some nice selections.


----------



## mbusby

rantzmar said:


> Also if you like you can always go over to acousticsounds.com to buy and download some DSD files. They have some nice selections.


 
  
 Agree, just bought an LP from them.


----------



## Sonic Defender

canali said:


> great...thanks...
> streaming has opened me up to alot of new music...so it's great for that.
> but with having good equipment i just want to take advantage of their capabilities.
> just ordered a while ago 2x 24/196 flac downloads from 7 digital...so i'm getting there...albeit slowly
> ...


 
 Edit: removing my comments as they may cause an unwanted debate here so in an effort to not do so I'm proactively removing my comments.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

sonic defender said:


> Before you spend a ton of money why don't you get a friend to help you test if there is any real audible difference with higher resolution material? Get two albums one high rez version, level match and do multiple blind listening trials and see if you can tell the difference. I would be curious if you can or not. I never could.


 
 It's very personal and in my case the answer is also "no". That said, I'm like a mid-fi guys with no pair of headphones worth more than 400. The only times I broke that barrier were with the RS1i and PS500 but I sold both already.


----------



## Sonic Defender

williamleonhart said:


> It's very personal and in my case the answer is also "no". That said, I'm like a mid-fi guys with no pair of headphones worth more than 400. The only times I broke that barrier were with the RS1i and PS500 but I sold both already.


 
 Edit: removing my comments as they may cause an unwanted debate here so in an effort to not do so I'm proactively removing my comments.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

sonic defender said:


> *It shouldn't be personal per say, it should be tested. *The reason I say that is that typically any high resolution release will cost more than the 16bit version, sometimes quite a bit more. It also has people re-purchasing parts of their catalogue again so given that the stakes financially can be quite high I can't imagine why people wouldn't do some really valid testing. It is also important to level match because one favorite trick of remasters or high-rez issues are to make the album louder which has the potential to make us feel the music sounds better when it is simply a rise in amplitude of the signal, not any change in the signal quality at work.
> 
> The few people I know who have actually tested all seem to come to the conclusion that they couldn't tell the difference, but that is a small sample and in no way am I suggesting it is fact. Frankly, that is why I wish more people would do level matched, blind listening testing, just so we had more information about this. Hell, I would gladly pay more money if the technology made an audible difference believe me, and I hope it does.


 
 IMHO testing doesn't mean as much in audio as in other businesses. There're tons of measurements and yet it all comes down to the fact that each person's hearing ability would differ. Next comes their preferences. And then there's the fact that some people would try to make themselves like something for no practical reason at all. 
 So it's very hard to come to a consensus for anything except proclamation such as "this is good" and "that is not as good as [something else]". Sure people would appreciate the fact that testing provide fine guidelines, but let's say if testing proves that A is better than B but to one person's impression B is better than A, then testing is meaningless to that person. 
 We're really opening a can of worms. Is hi-res that much better? Does "USB purifiers" improve quality? Should I buy an optical interface? Sure there can be testing and results to provide a concrete "yes" or "no", but whether that matters to your ears (and your mind) is another matter entirely.
  
 There's these anecdotes that I've told more than once on head-fi and elsewhere:
 - Took my friends to a big audio shop in Sg and let them listen to a pair of PS500e run on a iFi stack. 2 (inc. me) say the left side has louder volume, 2 others say it's the right side.
 - A friend in the Grado thread suffers from some sort of medical conditions and can't stand bright headphones for long. He had to sell his Grados for that reason. His next Grado for a few years till now? The SR325e, which is supposed to be one of the brightest Grado line. 
 - Based on measurements alone, the O2 is supposed to be the pinnacle of mid-range and low-range equipment. I liked it a lot, but I don't share that opinion. Any argument would not have a decisive ending.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Edit: removing my comments as they may cause an unwanted debate here so in an effort to not do so I'm proactively removing my comments.


----------



## HotIce

williamleonhart said:


> IMHO testing doesn't mean as much in audio as in other businesses. There're tons of measurements and yet it all comes down to the fact that each person's hearing ability would differ. Next comes their preferences. And then there's the fact that some people would try to make themselves like something for no practical reason at all.
> So it's very hard to come to a consensus for anything except proclamation such as "this is good" and "that is not as good as [something else]". Sure people would appreciate the fact that testing provide fine guidelines, but let's say if testing proves that A is better than B but to one person's impression B is better than A, then testing is meaningless to that person.
> We're really opening a can of worms. Is hi-res that much better? Does "USB purifiers" improve quality? Should I buy an optical interface? Sure there can be testing and results to provide a concrete "yes" or "no", but whether that matters to your ears (and your mind) is another matter entirely.
> 
> ...


 
 I think you are confusing what "testing" meant in the author context.
 I like fish, you like steak. That is normal, as the subjects are different.
 IOW, the is not single "best", but there are many "individual,best" pairs.
 I can distinguish salmon which lived above the 50th parallel, from the one which lived below it.
 In that case, the is one "subject" (me), and if I claim that, I should be able to detect the difference whether or not I can see the label on the salmon wrapping.


----------



## Maxpain

I am considering upgrading my 598's with 650's or the hifi man he400i. I could use some advice on wich is better with the dsd micro.
  
 Thanks in advance.
  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## cav1sa

I don't have any experience with he400i, but I love hd650 and I don't think I will ever sell them. They're light, super comfortable and scale really well as you get better sources.
 EDIT: I should add that HD650 benefit from the 3D holo sound, which alleviates some of their inherently reserved treble extension.


----------



## Sonic Defender

maxpain said:


> I am considering upgrading my 598's with 650's or the hifi man he400i. I could use some advice on wich is better with the dsd micro.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> ...


 
 The 400i is a very nice headphone. I used it a little with my Micro and thought it was a nice pairing, but I didn't do this extensively as I remember things. The 400i will be a more exciting and engaging sound, but the 650 will have the ability to make everything sound more relaxed so it depends on your listening preferences. You may also want to consider the HD600 as that is no slouch either.


----------



## chillaxing

maxpain said:


> I am considering upgrading my 598's with 650's or the hifi man he400i. I could use some advice on wich is better with the dsd micro.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The 650 is a better pairing with the micro, i'm running the same combo.  With the 400i it can get a little sharp at times, but it paired really well with the mojo.


----------



## Maxpain

chillaxing said:


> The 650 is a better pairing with the micro, i'm running the same combo.  With the 400i it can get a little sharp at times, but it paired really well with the mojo.


 
 What do you mean by sharp? I am upgrading from hd 598's wich are really nice headphones but a little too ''calm'' for my tastes. In that case...is shart meaning more aggresive and forward?
  
 Thanks you all for your help by the way!


----------



## Sonic Defender

maxpain said:


> What do you mean by sharp? I am upgrading from hd 598's wich are really nice headphones but a little too ''calm'' for my tastes. In that case...is shart meaning more aggresive and forward?
> 
> Thanks you all for your help by the way!


 
 I didn't find the 400i that aggressive and forward, perhaps in comparison to a more relaxed headphone, but that is all subjective. The 400i actually in my mind has decently extended treble, not buttery smooth, but not brittle or strident, just present and of a solid caliber befitting the price point. It is a revealing enough headphone that it won't hide much, so in that respect at times I'm sure it can be sharp. I listened to it with a fair amount of electronica, EDM, some pop, and plenty of well mastered material and I thought it was close to the HE 560 in terms of ability, but didn't have quite the quality of separation and layering, but not far off.
  
 We all have different takes on things, but for me the Micro worked well with the 400i and if you already are used to and ready to move on from a Sennheiser dynamic, now is a good time to try a planar and a new house sound. Not to many people have had anything bad to say about the 400i, not that I have read anyway.


----------



## hag6

Can anyone recommend any tracks that highlight the effects derived from using the XBass and 3DSound features.


----------



## cav1sa

hag6 said:


> Can anyone recommend any tracks that highlight the effects derived from using the XBass and 3DSound features.


 
 xbass is pretty straightforward. If your headphones lack a little bit of oomph down low, that's what it's for. I don't think xbass is designed to add bass to bass-deprived recordings, but rather to help tune your hardware's sound sig.
 3dsound is different. It works really well with some records, but negatively affects others. On the other hand, its effectiveness is also dependant on what type of headphones you're using. It generally works well for me with darker sounding gear, but doesn't help much with natural sounding equipment.
 This is of course, all subjective. Some folks don't care for any EQ or anything close to crossfeed. YMMV.


----------



## hag6

Can anyone comment on the iDSD Micro paired with AKG 702 headphones - how do you set up the Micro in order to get the best out of this headphone.
  
 Another question - what sonic benefits might I experience from using the nano iusb3.0 with the Micro?
  Thanks


----------



## technobear

hag6 said:


> Another question - what sonic benefits might I experience from using the nano iusb3.0 with the Micro?
> Thanks




http://www.head-fi.org/t/781064/micro-iusb3-0-impressions-thread


----------



## Topspin70

@ifi audio any chance there's a idsd micro 2 lurking around the corner waiting to surprise us? Or is the idsd pro the successor for now? (A heavy hitting successor at that)


----------



## SergeyK

Hi everyone!
  
 I got mine iFi micro a week ago and heating it up through nights and days, but still can`t say that this thing plays better than the Samsung Note 5..... Of course, the volume level is out of any questions, but setting the same level on both devices I can`t here where iFi is better on my HD 650. Tested on the same flac tracks (Foobar2000 on laptop, Onko HF Player on Note 5).
  
 Am I doing something wrong? Does anybody has both Note 5 and iFi micro to compare?


----------



## gikigill

You're feeding it an average quality signal, connect it via USB and you should get better results.


----------



## SergeyK

gikigill said:


> You're feeding it an average quality signal, connect it via USB and you should get better results.


 
 I`ve connected it to USB3.0 port of my laptop with standard cable from the box. Note 5 shows the same perfomance no matter if via OTG or HD 650 connected dirctly to 3,5mm jack (of course, if I only make same volume level).


----------



## HiFiRobot

Is the Black Label official yet?
 Should have upgraded analog, DAC, Xbass and 3D. Same pricing AFAIK.


----------



## iFi audio

Well, there we were just sipping our whisky.


----------



## WindyCityCy

Is there a good solution for docking an iPhone 7, that will supply power to the phone and allow connecting to the iFi?


----------



## Triodemode

hifirobot said:


> Is the Black Label official yet?
> Should have upgraded analog, DAC, Xbass and 3D. Same pricing AFAIK.


 

 Much sexier look for the case style...  Wish ifi offered this color option when I bought mine last year.


----------



## potatoe94

anyone had tried their iFi iDSD Micro with the new Audeze iSines or the JH Michelle ?
 i am very interested in their pairing !


----------



## Sonic Defender

triodemode said:


> Much sexier look for the case style...  Wish ifi offered this color option when I bought mine last year.


 
 Ditto, really like that look as well.


----------



## howdy

Im at work so I can not use the search function for what ever reason but, my question is, when I have my ipod touch plugged in the iDSD will drain my iPod in a matter of an hour or so, there is a certain way the "hand shake" needs to be done to stop this right?


----------



## CriticalTodd

Turn on the iDSD before connecting it to the iPod. I think that triggers it to run off the battery and not pull power from the USB connection.


----------



## howdy

criticaltodd said:


> Turn on the iDSD before connecting it to the iPod. I think that triggers it to run off the battery and not pull power from the USB connection.



 

When its done charging I will try that, thanks!


----------



## Aegruin

howdy said:


> criticaltodd said:
> 
> 
> > Turn on the iDSD before connecting it to the iPod. I think that triggers it to run off the battery and not pull power from the USB connection.
> ...


 
  
 Beside that, 5.2B software is better for these kind of stuff. Otherwise iDSD will start to drain your battery after 1-2 minutes when you stop the music. Also 5.2 software(non-B one) itself has a playing delay problem.


----------



## youurayy

windycitycy said:


> Is there a good solution for docking an iPhone 7, that will supply power to the phone and allow connecting to the iFi?


 
 No.
  
 When the iDSD is OFF and connected to the phone, it will always charge from the phone, no matter what the firmware. You must disconnect it to prevent that.
  
 With the alternate firmware (B), with the iDSD connected to phone and turned ON, but not in use (no signal), the iDSD will not go to sleep and thus not charge from the phone, at the expense depleting its own battery.
  
 Really hope the future designs will have a simple charging on/off switch, since this is a design oversight.


----------



## youurayy

sergeyk said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I got mine iFi micro a week ago and heating it up through nights and days, but still can`t say that this thing plays better than the Samsung Note 5..... Of course, the volume level is out of any questions, but setting the same level on both devices I can`t here where iFi is better on my HD 650. Tested on the same flac tracks (Foobar2000 on laptop, Onko HF Player on Note 5).
> 
> Am I doing something wrong? Does anybody has both Note 5 and iFi micro to compare?


 
 Make sure you don't have the IEMatch activated (even accidentally), and try to give the HD 650 a little boost (set one level above Eco) even if the volume doesn't seem to need it.
  
 Also the iDSD may need more than a week to properly burn in, however crazy that sounds. It replaced my bedroom tube amp setup which I thought was really good.


----------



## SergeyK

youurayy said:


> Make sure you don't have the IEMatch activated (even accidentally), and try to give the HD 650 a little boost (set one level above Eco) even if the volume doesn't seem to need it.
> 
> Also the iDSD may need more than a week to properly burn in, however crazy that sounds. It replaced my bedroom tube amp setup which I thought was really good.




Thanks a lot for trying to help.

I'm sure IEmatch is switched off. iFi recommended to use ECO mode with HD650, but of course I've tried all of them.

BTW I can't hear difference between filters (standart, bit perfect etc). Device is playing 12 hours a day and I can't say it is getting way more better.


----------



## robertbratosin

Chord mojo is better than isds micro or oppo ha2 se ? I am stuck between this 3 dac's , please help me !


----------



## amham

robertbratosin said:


> Chord mojo is better than isds micro or oppo ha2 se ? I am stuck between this 3 dac's , please help me !


 
 I have the iDSD and the Mojo and, of course, they are both great!  However, the Mojo is clearly better.  Now, what does better mean?  At this level the rule of diminishing returns comes to play so each individual needs to make up their own mind...to murk up the waters a bit the Woo WA8 tops them both by a wide margin!


----------



## gikigill

I prefer the Mojo, having owned the Ifi, Mojo and the Lhlabs Geek Out V2+ Infinity. 

Its a matter of personal preference though. Go with what suits you best although the Ifi is a beast when it comes to power and driver handling


----------



## howdy

I've had the Micro for about a year and have the mojo twice. I for one prefer the sound of the Micro over the Mojo but, I'm looking to buy a mojo right now and keep it for the foreseeable future. The mojo is one great little device.


----------



## Triodemode

After upgrading the micro iDSD firmware to 5.20, I noticed the first 2 seconds of music gets cut off on the first song using Foobar2000.  Is their any way to correct this without reverting back to an earlier firmware version?  It seems the sound quality is slightly improved on both PCM and DSD content with this version.  BTW, I am using driver version 2.23 as 2.26 is not compatible with my windows XP OS.


----------



## GraveNoX

Wow, he is 69 years old and he can distinguish between idsd and mojo, that's big, big stuff. He even choose mojo over micro. I never thought that old people still buy portable amps and talk about them on public forums. That's why there are so many contrary comparison between dacs, everyone hear different. Now I understand why I should not take in consideration a review or a comparison.


----------



## bmoura

howdy said:


> I've had the Micro for about a year and have the mojo twice. I for one prefer the sound of the Micro over the Mojo but, I'm looking to buy a mojo right now and keep it for the foreseeable future. The mojo is one great little device.


 

 Same here.  I'd go with the Micro over the Mojo.


----------



## Topspin70

For those using Roon here, may I ask what Audio settings do you use?
  
 In my set up, using Device Control or Fixed Volume seems to start off ear burstingly loud before settling down to listenable volume. Any idea what is going on?


----------



## technobear

triodemode said:


> After upgrading the micro iDSD firmware to 5.20, I noticed the first 2 seconds of music gets cut off on the first song using Foobar2000.  Is their any way to correct this without reverting back to an earlier firmware version?




Install foo_dsp_pregap

Insert 1500 ms of silence.

Use noise instead of silence (forces the DAC to wake up).


----------



## robertbratosin

Chord mojo is better than micro idsd?? Overall sq , or maybe oppo ha2 se ?


----------



## Whitigir

robertbratosin said:


> Chord mojo is better than micro idsd?? Overall sq , or maybe oppo ha2 se ?




What ? Countless of people here prefer the Micro DSD over Mojo.


----------



## potatoe94

The iFi iDSD Micro is like ... An amp for anything ... And you can even bring it around .


----------



## robertbratosin

dsnyder said:


> I unboxed my ifi micro iDSD a few days ago also and took a few photos of the included adapters while I was waiting for that initial 24 hour charge to complete.  I'm now about 40 hours into my 100+ hour burn-in process, but I thought I'd take a few minutes to share the box contents.  T[COLOR=222222]he ifi micro iDSD box contains [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]_a lot_[/COLOR][COLOR=222222] of adapters...eight to be precise![/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222]There are two female USB Type-A to male Type-A cables--this small black one and a larger, heavier blue one (not pictured because I was using it for the crucial initial 24 hours of charging)  These are for charging the on-board 4800mAh battery and connecting the micro iDSD to a mobile device via an OTG adapter ([COLOR=1155CC]Android[/COLOR]) or Camera Connection Kit (iOS).  In this mode, your smartphone acts as a digital USB transport ([COLOR=1155CC]special software required[/COLOR]) for ultra high quality portable listening.  My OTG cable fits in the micro iDSD's unusual recessed male Type-A connection port, so I could strap this fairly heavy monster to my Samsung Galaxy Note II for high-end portable listening if I wished without having to use these cables.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]
> ...


 no souch thing 'the burn in' the burn in is just a mith


----------



## technobear

robertbratosin said:


> no souch thing 'the burn in' the burn in is just a mith




Or maybe you just have poor hearing acuity :rolleyes:

If you really can't hear the difference, I suggest you stop spending money on upgrades right now.


----------



## robertbratosin

technobear said:


> Or maybe you just have poor hearing acuity :rolleyes:
> 
> If you really can't hear the difference, I suggest you stop spending money on upgrades right now.



What difference? I hear very well the diff between different equipment, just the burn in thing is a big lie , even tyll hertsens said that , only a child still believe in burn in, is the brain that adjust not the gear


----------



## HotIce

There are two sets of people.
 The ones that cannot hear electronic equipment burnin differences, and the one that can hear them ... but never, not, a, single, time, proved so.
 Now, it has been measured in the past, that components where mechanical moving parts are involved, can show differences in measures.
 Example, some parameters like resonating frequency of a speaker, can drop 1..2% or so (in a 15cm drive).
 From measuring them, to actually hear them, is something that needs to be verified.
 Solid state, electronic equipment, until someone, at least one, in a SCAM-free testing setup, can show it, I remain highly doubtful.


----------



## youurayy

Materials age and are affected by wear. That includes capacitors and other solid state components, not just mechanical.
  
 A/B tests are heavily influenced by the set, the setting, the conscious and subconscious expectations, the familiarity with the source material, and the resulting emotional state of the person performing the test.
  
 Lastly, if I can't hear something, it doesn't mean others can't hear it, and vice versa. Let's not be audio "nazis" here.


----------



## Aegruin

sergeyk said:


> Thanks a lot for trying to help.
> 
> I'm sure IEmatch is switched off. iFi recommended to use ECO mode with HD650, but of course I've tried all of them.
> 
> BTW I can't hear difference between filters (standart, bit perfect etc). Device is playing 12 hours a day and I can't say it is getting way more better.


 
  
 I barely heard a difference with very very sensitive monitors. I don't think you could hear a difference with an open back can. But the filters do affect very much when you are playing DSD. When you're doing that Bit-perfect is the smoothest thing you can hear and Standard is a sibilant treble monster.


----------



## HotIce

youurayy said:


> Materials age and are affected by wear. That includes capacitors and other solid state components, not just mechanical.
> 
> A/B tests are heavily influenced by the set, the setting, the conscious and subconscious expectations, the familiarity with the source material, and the resulting emotional state of the person performing the test.
> 
> Lastly, if I can't hear something, it doesn't mean others can't hear it, and vice versa. Let's not be audio "nazis" here.


 
  
 Where do you get your information about physics of components and the scale of their changes function of use and time?
 There exist instruments able to measure part-per-billion changes in physical and electrical properties.
 You, unless you underwent to some yet-to-be-discovered ultrasonic ear replacement, are not, as human, within the set that can tell the differences.
  
 A/B tests are not influenced by set, or whatever expectations, or source material, because, applying to both A and B, do not skew the difference you are claiming to hear.
 And, again, for the 10000 time, the fact that, not.a.single.one in a SCAM-free testing setup, have been able to show that yes, he can really hear the differences, should be a pretty gigantic clue.
 But please, feel free to prove every doubtful individual wrong, with supporting facts, and I will take back every single statement.


----------



## robertbratosin

The ultimate test to really prove the burn in process 

1.buy 2 identical headphones
2.first one leave it in the box , second one do the burn in process for 100.200h or how many hours it takes
3.after the burning in process completed do a blind test with the same source


----------



## Triodemode

technobear said:


> Install foo_dsp_pregap
> 
> Insert 1500 ms of silence.
> 
> Use noise instead of silence (forces the DAC to wake up).


 

 Thank you technobear.  I guess I will just have decide whether this cutoff is worth the firmware when using YouTube and VLC.


----------



## HotIce

technobear said:


> I have personally experienced equipment burn-in more times than I care to remember. I know it occurs so what am I supposed to say to people who 'choose' on the basis of no evidence or experience whatsoever to declare they don't believe in it or that it doesn't exist?
> 
> Hmmm?
> 
> Are they all deaf? Ignorant? Deluded? It bemuses me.


 
  
 Unless we venture into the religious world, where believing w/out evidence is all we can do, I am used to a world where you need evidence in order to believe.
 FWIW, I did "experience" something myself a few months ago.
 I did buy a new set of headphones I wanted to try, and as soon as I listened to them, they sounded super-dull to me.
 So dull, I wanted to sell them or hand them over to friends.
 Then I decided to stick with it for a few days, and sure enough, the more I listened to them, the more they sounded better to me.
 Now, I still think they are not my cup of tea, but I can sit and listen to them, and enjoy them, especially with some types of music.
 Was it "burnin"? Meh, I don't think so.
 Much more likely, it was just me getting used to their sound signature.
 And these were headphones, where there actually are significant differences among them, in terms of measures (AKA frequency responses).


----------



## Sonic Defender

robertbratosin said:


> The ultimate test to really prove the burn in process
> 
> 1.buy 2 identical headphones
> 2.first one leave it in the box , second one do the burn in process for 100.200h or how many hours it takes
> 3.after the burning in process completed do a blind test with the same source


 
 Still wouldn't be enough. You need multiple subjects and multiple trials, and even then there are many possible confounds. As well, most people would think that in blind listening trials if a user was right say 70% of the time in picking out a "burned-in" headphone it would mean clear evidence, but it wouldn't. Around 90% you get into some good basis for confidence, but I would expect to repeat that with the same user on a few different occasions and the results would need to remain consistent. The issue is that it is extremely difficult to demonstrate such effects, perhaps even impossible given the subjective nature of such experiences. What is striking to me is that for the most part, when I see the claims of burn-in effect, people are usually very clear that the perceived differences are subtle. Subtle effects should be regarded with healthy skepticism, a subtle effect is plausibly the results of expectation bias.
  
 For the record, I remain on the fence about mechanical burn-in existing. I certainly can't positively refute it, but I have also never seen evidence in support of burn-in beyond somebody saying I trust my ears. I think it is a divisive topic, and ultimately a very un-important topic because it really doesn't matter how it is that our perception of sound signature change comes about, I think we all except that over time, often perception of sound signature does change and that is all we really need to know.


----------



## HotIce

You can see here one example, where measures support a change in physical properties of a woofer driver.
 The Fs change is rather "significant" enough it is possible to be distinguished by human ear.
 Whether or not it is actually possible to pick them apart by human ear, I never tried (neither I am aware of studies that did so).
  
 http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm


----------



## iFi audio

robertbratosin said:


>


 
 Our own experiences with "burn-in" (a material parameter change in electronic components over the early hours of being operated  in a circuit after being manufactured or inactive for a substantial time) caused us to investigate. Here some samples of the literature we found:
  

Self, D. 'Self-Improvement for Capacitors', Linear Audio 1 (April 2011), p.158 ibid, p. 159
Zumbahlen, H. 'Passive Components - Resistors and Potentiometers', Linear Circuit Design Handbook 1st Edition (2007), p. 10.20 ibid, p. 10.21
Kemet, 'SHELF LIFE AND RE-AGEING', Electrolytic Capacitors (Catalogue 2009), p. 17
  
 Other examples exist and the above list is neither complete nor exhaustive.


----------



## Sonic Defender

ifi audio said:


> Our own experiences with "burn-in" (a material parameter change in electronic components over the early hours of being operated  in a circuit after being manufactured or inactive for a substantial time) caused us to investigate. Here some samples of the literature we found:
> 
> 
> Self, D. 'Self-Improvement for Capacitors', Linear Audio 1 (April 2011), p.158 ibid, p. 159
> ...


 
 Nobody disputes that electronic components change, the question is whether the changes are audible in real life listening. Measureable is not a guarantee of audibility. Not to mention, there is plenty of poorly done research out there, in fact, recent forensic evaluations of research published in leading, peer-reviewed journals has uncovered a significant amount of fraudulent, and or poorly done research so the research itself must also be scrutinized.


----------



## Sonic Defender

hotice said:


> Whether or not it is actually possible to pick them apart by human ear, I never tried (neither I am aware of studies that did so).
> 
> http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm


 
 That is always the rub isn't it? I completely accept that mechanical burn-in results in changes, what has never been demonstrated to the best of my knowledge is that with multiple subjects, over multiple well done, controlled double blind experiments, that these changes are audible reliably under real listening situations. Until that research is done and replicated several times the claims remain appealing, but unsubstantiated claims. Again, I can't say one way or the other of course, so I remain hopeful, but skeptical, and I approach all claims that have marketing potential with an open mind, but also with equal doses of skepticism.
  
 Anyway, I'll stop as I know this will simply derail the thread further so my apology for any deversion to date.


----------



## osiris1

technobear said:


> Install foo_dsp_pregap
> 
> Insert 1500 ms of silence.
> 
> Use noise instead of silence (forces the DAC to wake up).




Thanks, and repped.


----------



## cav1sa

> Install foo_dsp_pregap
> 
> Insert 1500 ms of silence.
> 
> Use noise instead of silence (forces the DAC to wake up).


 
 Very cool. I don't mind the silence all that much, but good to know. Thanks!


----------



## matbhuvi

Just bought one from Adorama for sale price of $350 
  
 Anyone using iDSD with external HDD and android phone/tablet?


----------



## howdy

matbhuvi said:


> Just bought one from Adorama for sale price of $350
> 
> Anyone using iDSD with external HDD and android phone/tablet?



Did you get a iDAC or a iDSD? You may want to recheck your order.


----------



## matbhuvi

howdy said:


> Did you get a iDAC or a iDSD? You may want to recheck your order.




iDSD micro


----------



## iFi audio

Sipping the good stuff is past us, now may we present to you...

*micro iDSD Black Label*

*The Black-series. Refined.*





*Black Label*

The original iDSD set a new benchmark for portable DAC/Headamps in the US$500 sector. Nothing came close to its sonics, flexibility and outright power. Nothing at least until the micro iDSD ‘Black Label.’

The evolution into the ‘Black Label’ covers these main areas:

  

Satin black chassis with ‘burnt orange’ silk print
Major parts changes to the very latest available
3D Holographic+® and XBass+® new implementation are very easy to discern
 

Sonically, much smoother, more weight and with a full-bodied mid-range. The bass is deeper and cleaner. The Black Label is in every way, the ‘turbo charged’ version of the normally aspirated micro iDSD.

Perhaps ‘Double Black’ is a more apt description because it is different on the outside as well as the inside. The matt and gloss black anodising is set against the ‘burnt orange’ silk print. While keeping in essence the same design philosophy, we re-engineered the micro iDSD after taking into consideration suggestions and integrating the most advanced and newest components available.


*Special Features*

· DAC digital signal and digital power sections upgraded
· AMR Global Master Timing® femto-precision clock system upgraded for ‘super low’ phase-noise/jitter
· Analogue signal and power sections revised
· 3D+® performance-tuned / XBass+® performance-tuned 
· Latest Output stabilisation network offers less distortion

There's more, but not today. Stay tuned, we'll deliver!


----------



## potatoe94

does that mean the iDSD Micro sucks now ?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

ifi audio said:


> *Special Features*
> 
> · DAC digital signal and digital power sections upgraded
> *· AMR Global Master Timing® femto-precision clock system upgraded for ‘super low’ phase-noise/jitter*
> ...


 
 Tell me the iPurifier2 is now useless!


----------



## iFi audio

williamleonhart said:


> Tell me the iPurifier2 is now useless!


 
 Despite that some of our proprietary tech is embedded into different products from our portfolio, it's beneficial to use devices like i.e. iPurifier2 with other brands too.


----------



## gikigill

ifi audio said:


> Sipping the good stuff is past us, now may we present to you...
> 
> *micro iDSD Black Label*
> 
> ...


 
  

 More info and specs please.


----------



## XSAMURAI

great news , thanks for sharing , i hope to see first DAP and non battery operated Desktop DAC/AMP Combo With Balanced Output in future from IFI Audio ( big wish ! i know )


----------



## gr8soundz

Nice 'halloween' style update. Not sure about the matte black. Kinda got used to the iFi silver.
  
 Guess its a good thing I got rid of my original Micro a few months ago. This one will be tempting. Waiting to see full specs.


----------



## Sonic Defender

potatoe94 said:


> does that mean the iDSD Micro sucks now ?


 
 I assume you were joking, but regardless, none of the differences are likely to be audible anyway. There wasn't a human alive now or ever that could hear the previous levels of jitter so going even lower is just in order to keep up with the specifications wars that companies are engaged in. I would warrant the only difference anybody could ever tell would be the looks. I'm sure somebody here will own both and hopefully do a true blind listening comparison. I like the new look personally.


----------



## youurayy

ifi audio said:


> Sipping the good stuff is past us, now may we present to you...
> 
> *micro iDSD Black Label*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please add "charging disable/enable" flip switch! (+ make the bottom panel switches more recessed or moved to sides)
  
 Still, a killer product for a price of an expensive audio cable!


----------



## Dadracer

Oh thanks, after all the times I asked about a black version of the micro range...........


----------



## Franatic

Definitely need to improve the  bottom slider switches, the buttons/caps pop off.


----------



## canali

ifi audio said:


> Sipping the good stuff is past us, now may we present to you...
> 
> *micro iDSD Black Label*
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 i may have missed this but when is the release date, please?


----------



## iFi audio

canali said:


> i may have missed this but when is the release date, please?


 
  
 Once we're very close to it, we will inform everyone. Though the assumption of our Micro iDSD Black Label somewhere around the corner is about right  What we have for now is this:
  
*Part 1. The Grand Tour*
  
  
*The Digital Engine:*
  

DAC Power supply upgraded with iFi custom ultra-low noise Operationsverstärker OV2028
DAC reference voltage decoupling changed to Panasonic audio-grade ECPU film capacitors
Digital power supplies upgraded with ultra-low impedance Panasonic OSCON capacitors
GMT® Femto precision clock system power supply upgraded for super low phase-noise/jitter
 
  
  
*The Analogue section:*
  

Analogue section upgraded with iFi custom low noise FET input Operationsverstärker OV2627
Analogue power supplies upgraded with Ultra-low impedance Panasonic OSCON capacitors
3D+® performance-tuned
XBass+® performance-tuned
Re-designed Output Stabilisation network for less distortion
 

  
For 3D+® & XBass+® we adjusted based on wide ranging customer feedback after a period of field testing different adjustments.
  
3D+® makes the soundstage deeper, wider and more spacious.
  
XBass+® makes the bass deeper, cleaner and more audible.


  

  
 Stay tuned for more!


----------



## canali

ifi audio said:


> Once we're very close to it, we will inform everyone. Though the assumption of our Micro iDSD Black Label somewhere around the corner is about right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good to hear...but for the love of God please do away with that figher jet image when talking of your technology used....dont know about any one else but when I see that i feel embarrassed (and i've read similar sentiments on other audio sites about this,...so i'm not alone)...when I read it i grimace and feel like I'm being dumbed down to some 15 yr old gamer.


----------



## Taggerung

Will the Black Label have better battery life? It'll be nice to be able to be on Turbo for 10 hours or more.


----------



## Topspin70

canali said:


> Good to hear...but for the love of God please do away with that figher jet image when talking of your technology used....dont know about any one else but when I see that i feel embarrassed (and i've read similar sentiments on other audio sites about this,...so i'm not alone)...when I read it i grimace and feel like I'm being dumbed down to some 15 yr old gamer.


 
  
 A lot of idsd micro owners I know are 15 yr olds. Young enough to be my kid. : )


----------



## iFi audio

*iFi Micro iDSD Black Label* *Preview and Tour*  
 The secret is out. As many of you may know, we’re ready to unveil the successor to the original Micro iDSD: the Micro iDSD ‘Black Label.’ The Black Label will inject some smoothness and seduction into everyday listening!
   

  
  

  
What’s the difference?  
 A lot, actually. The stealth look is just the start. ‘Double Black’ is a more apt description. It is different on the outside and _even more_ on the inside. The matt and gloss black anodising is set against the ‘burnt orange’ silk print. While keeping the same design philosophy, we re-engineered the micro iDSD after taking into consideration customer suggestions and integrating the newest and most advanced components across the digital and analogue stages.
                                                                                                      
 Here’s a quick TLDR for you:
  
The original iDSD set a new benchmark for portable DAC/Headamps in the US$500 sector. Nothing came close to its sonics, flexibility and outright power. Nothing at least until the evolution into the ‘Black Label:’
  

Satin black chassis with ‘burnt orange’ silk print
Major parts changes to the very latest available
3D Holographic+® and XBass+® new implementation are very easy to discern
 
Sonically, much smoother, more weight and with a full-bodied mid-range. The bass is deeper and cleaner. The Black Label is in every way, the ‘turbo charged’ version of the normally aspirated micro iDSD.
  
More preview details to come over the coming days/weeks. Watch this space - this thread and the micro iDSD DSD512/PCM768 appreciation thread too.
  
  
  
*Micro iDSD Black Label Tour!*  
 Now that you know a little bit more about the Micro iDSD Black Label, it’s your turn to try it for yourself! YUP!
  
 Announcing the Head-Fi exclusive tour of our new Micro iDSD Black Label!  
  
  
Am I eligible for the tour?
  
 For this tour, we’re dedicating units to not 1 or 2, but *5* units around the globe – USA, UK, Europe, Singapore, and Hong Kong/China.
  
 If you’re in one of those regions, congratulations. You’re eligible!
  
  
How do you sign up?
  
 To sign up, simply shoot an email to lawrancel@iFi-Audio.com with the title: *iDSDBL Tour (**XXXX**: YOUR REGION).*
  
*NOTE:* For the *(**XXXX**)*, please fill in your region as *USA, UK, EU, SG, or HK/CN.* *THIS IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!* Please make sure to do this, or the iFI USA team organizing these emails are going to have a headache worse than downing a bottle of Black Label!
  
  
 In the email, please include the following:
  
 1) Username *AND link* to your Head-Fi Profile.
 2) Location
 3) Tell us the gear that you plan on connecting the Micro iDSD Black Label to.
 4) If you have any links from reviews that you've done, let us know!
  
Deadline for the sign-up process is *30th November 2016*. The individuals will be announced/contacted thereafter.
  
  
 Rules for this Tour:
  
 1) Each Head-Fier will be given *1 week* to spend with the unit.
  

  
 2) After the given amount of time, each Head-Fier is responsible for safely packing the unit, shipping the unit to the next Head-Fier, and covering the shipping costs.
  
  
 3) Each Head-Fier will be required to post a review of the Micro iDSD Black Label within 1 week of shipping the unit off to the next Head-Fier on the Micro iDSD Black Label product page *HERE!*
  
  
 4) Otherwise, the most important thing is to kick back, have fun, and enjoy some of your favorite tunes through the Micro iDSD Black Label! We hope you love it as much as we do!
  
  
  
  
*Prizes*
  
*Are you a winner?* Well, you could be! At the end of the tour, we will be raffling off 1 review unit to each of the 5 regions.
  
 Your review of the Micro iDSD Black Label on the Head-Fi product page will be your raffle ticket!
  
*BUT WAIT! There’s more!*
  
 You may have caught on by now, but we’re very excited about this product release. On top of raffling off the review units to each region (5 in all), we've teamed up with Unique Melody to raffle off ONE Unique Melody Martian IEM (in total, not each region!).
  
 The Unique Melody Martian is a hybrid design IEM with dual 6.8 mm dynamic drivers and two BA drivers. Pair it with the Micro iDSD Black Label, and you can expect a smooth yet detailed sound that will keep your toes tapping for hours and hours on end! More info *HERE and* *HERE!*
  

  
 A big thanks to June at Unique Melody for making this possible!
  
 Last and certainly not least, one further winner will get the upcoming Pro iDSD on loan for 6 months!
  

 We hope you enjoy participating in this great tour and thank you in advance!


----------



## Whitigir

Thanks for the opportunity.


----------



## Wyd4

Would love to partake.  Alas I live in the wrong country.
  
 I have been considering the idsd micro for a while.  would be interesting to compare to my alo cdm.
  
 Look forward to the reviews.
  
 Scott


----------



## potatoe94

Awesome !


----------



## ClieOS

potatoe94 said:


> Awesome !


 
  
 Indeed. Hope to listen to the new miDSD BL next time I am in Singapore.


----------



## iFi audio

*Part 2. Exceptional parts quality*
  
 With the original iDSD micro, iFi already pushed parts quality to a very high level. Yet after long-term testing and with new parts now available to us that were not available at the time of the original production version of the iDSD micro, we were able to wring meaningful improvements in sound quality by substituting specific parts with higher grade (and more expensive) alternatives.
  
 Specifically, with the upgrades applied we were able to produce a sound that is smoother sounding than the original, yet with increased level of detail and improved dynamics and slam. These are not ‘night and day’ differences but the difference is very discernible. To gain meaningful sonic improvements on a product like the iDSD micro was no small challenge.
  

*Sanyo OSCONs. Os-Cons are go.*
  

  
  
 Os-Con's originally from Sanyo (now taken over by Panasonic) have been around for a good while. Among the larger value capacitors useful in power supplies, they hold a special place.
  
 In a ground breaking series on capacitor performance published in the late Nineties and early Noughties in Wireless World, Cyril Bateman showed they persistently outperformed all alternatives at high frequencies and were second in low-distortion only to Elna Silmic types.
  

*AMR CD-77 Digital Processor*
  
 At AMR starting from the CD-77 Compact Disk Processor, we have a long history of using Os-Con's.
  

  
  
 After the Panasonic takeover, supply chains were changed and they became difficult to obtain. Testing alternatives offered by other manufacturers showed them to be dramatically inferior to the original Sanyo product and not much better then generic Electrolytic Capacitors.
  
 Further, originally Os-Con's were not available in the values/voltages/sizes needed for the relative miniature equipment in the iFi range.
  
 In recent times, the supply situation has improved and Panasonic has introduced a new range of ‘miniturised’ Os-Con's suited for iFi equipment. So despite their steep cost (around 10x that of common electrolytic capacitors) the micro iDSD Black Label is the first to start to feature them as an alternative where Elna Silmic capacitors cannot be accommodated; be it because of cost or size constraints, as they are physically much larger for the same capacitance and even more costly.


----------



## potatoe94

i love my iFi iDSD Micro too much to try this ... I live in Singapore , but i am afraid after listening to the black label , i would not like the sound from my iDSD Micro anymore :x 

 i guess i"ll just wait for it to be available for purchase here , then try it , at least i know i can buy it immediately when it happens .


----------



## youkeum

I hope to meet the beautiful black stuff soon in S.Korea.


----------



## Deftone

potatoe94 said:


> does that mean the iDSD Micro sucks now ?


 
  
 no....


----------



## Sonic Defender

deftone said:


> no....


 
 Exactly, and I would be surprised if any of the new elements make an audible difference. Did anybody actually hear distortion in the treble or jitter in the previous version of the Micro? I think many of the differences we commonly discuss are measureable, but not always audible. I love iFi gear and fully intend to own more of it, but I remain skeptical that the previous version of the Micro had audible distortion that is now removed with these new components so I would say people should enjoy their Micro and feel confident that it delivers excellent quality sound.


----------



## Maxpain

I personally like the fact that ifi keeps giving us better upgraded models of their products. I would love to hear this new version of the micro and why not, buy it of course!
  
 Thats the beauty of this market, you can allways find something new to play with! Either way the micro is so good that it will last many years before its considered as ''yesterdays news'' I think!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Sonic Defender

maxpain said:


> I personally like the fact that ifi keeps giving us better upgraded models of their products. I would love to hear this new version of the micro and why not, buy it of course!
> 
> Thats the beauty of this market, you can allways find something new to play with! Either way the micro is so good that it will last many years before its considered as ''yesterdays news'' I think!
> 
> Cheers!


 
 Absolutely, the new model is for new owners, or existing Micro owners who want to buy the updated model. My only point in posting is to suggest that newer doesn't mean better always, and that those who already own the existing Micro (which I did and I loved it by the way) shouldn't have any illusions that these changes are going to suddenly reveal all this missing information that their existing Micro is unable to reveal. If there are audible differences they will be quite subtle almost for sure, unless iFi really tuned this BL differently. Now, that said, the effects circuitry that most people found only made a modest difference at best on the current Micro may be greatly improved, but for me, those enhancements were never important or core to the Micro anyway. If I wanted more bass, I can simply do so with an EQ so I typically have little use for bass boosting circuitry built into devices anyway, but I do realize that many people do like and use them and I'm not trying to suggest my views are more valid.


----------



## GraveNoX

After the black label release, the old micro will be discontinued ? If not, the old micro will be sold at same price or at a lower price ? It's gonna be available worldwide like the old micro ?


----------



## Topspin70

Yes, I'm interested to know the pricing of this new unit too. Wonder if it will be a jump like the iCan to iCan SE.


----------



## Cotnijoe

topspin70 said:


> Yes, I'm interested to know the pricing of this new unit too. Wonder if it will be a jump like the iCan to iCan SE.


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-black-label-tour-details-page-147/2205#post_13008588


----------



## balcy24

My portable rig has developed a problem. I am using an iDSD Micro connected to my iPhone 6 Plus with the CCK and using JRemote. Sometimes mid track, other times when a song starts, there is a noticeable "jitter" noise and the music tempo slows way down like there is a problem with the data flow. I have tried turning off the iDSD and unplugging the CCK and eventually it goes back to normal. The last time I got an error message that the device is using too much power (pretty common with the CCK from what I have read). I do make sure the iDSD is turned on first and have the latest firmware B installed.  
  
 I am thinking the CCK could be the issue. Any ideas?. .


----------



## Topspin70

cotnijoe said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-black-label-tour-details-page-147/2205#post_13008588


 
  
 Thanks. High but not too high. I think it's quite likely to over-shadow the old model completely.


----------



## Sonic Defender

topspin70 said:


> Thanks. High but not too high. I think it's quite likely to over-shadow the old model completely.


 
 I agree, the new price sounds perfectly acceptable given the changes. I would certainly be happy to pay the small premium simply for the new look and if the changes turn out to be audible and better, well that just makes the 10% a very well spent 10%.


----------



## stevenyu2000

Good to know that upgrade version of iDSD mirco was coming.


----------



## chillaxing

Team iFi, is there a chart of the xbass on the new version?  Would like to know the peak and see how the slope is before even thinking of replacing the old one.


----------



## Tomasz2D

balcy24 said:


> My portable rig has developed a problem. I am using an iDSD Micro connected to my iPhone 6 Plus with the CCK and using JRemote. Sometimes mid track, other times when a song starts, there is a noticeable "jitter" noise and the music tempo slows way down like there is a problem with the data flow.


 
 It happens from time to time with my iPad mini (Tidal streaming) via CCK with various DACs. I just need to re-plug USB cable and it is back to normal.


----------



## iFi audio

balcy24 said:


> My portable rig has developed a problem. I am using an iDSD Micro connected to my iPhone 6 Plus with the CCK and using JRemote. Sometimes mid track, other times when a song starts, there is a noticeable "jitter" noise and the music tempo slows way down like there is a problem with the data flow. I have tried turning off the iDSD and unplugging the CCK and eventually it goes back to normal. The last time I got an error message that the device is using too much power (pretty common with the CCK from what I have read). I do make sure the iDSD is turned on first and have the latest firmware B installed.
> 
> I am thinking the CCK could be the issue. Any ideas?. .


 
  
 1. Please open our STS for more detailed tech support: http://support.ifi-audio.com
  
 2. From afar, best to reboot the App (try other Apps). Then try to swap out the CCK or micro iDSD. We don't think it is the micro iDSD because it should work or not work if it is the cause.


----------



## Dadracer

sonic defender said:


> maxpain said:
> 
> 
> > I personally like the fact that ifi keeps giving us better upgraded models of their products. I would love to hear this new version of the micro and why not, buy it of course!
> ...


 
 On balance I'd have to say I don't feel that ifi Audio appear to be the kind of company to change or upgrade a model unless it is a worthwhile change. You may be correct that the sonic differences are subtle, but then again I'd respectfully suggest that isn't something you can judge without listening.


----------



## iFi audio

*Part 3. Exceptional parts quality (cont’d)*

iFi/AMR ‘OV’ series stands for ‘Operationsverstärker’ (German for Operational Amplifier). iFi/AMR’s ‘OV’ range IC's use HCOFC copper lead-frames and 4N Gold bond-wire which is streets ahead of mainstream commercial chips that use inexpensive aluminum bond-wire and low-grade and low-cost copper in the lead-frames.





It is seldom found because it requires custom packaging of chips from wafers and has a very high MOQ (30,000 pcs per part and purchase) to do. Therefore, the parts used in the micro iDSD BL are ‘above and beyond.’



 
Specifically the iFi OV2028 is a BJT input Dual OV with extremely low-noise, wide bandwidth and high slew rate. 

The iFi OV2627 is an FET input Dual OV with low noise, extremely wide bandwidth and very high slew rate.

For further reading:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operationsverst%C3%A4rker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_amplifier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_bonding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_frame


----------



## Sonic Defender

dadracer said:


> On balance I'd have to say I don't feel that ifi Audio appear to be the kind of company to change or upgrade a model unless it is a worthwhile change. You may be correct that the sonic differences are subtle, but then again I'd respectfully suggest that isn't something you can judge without listening.


 
 Absolutely, I agree, some blind, multiple trial listening tests are a great idea. I would be shocked if the differences aren't rather subtle, but that said, first I could easily be wrong, but more importantly, I think the small price difference that iFi is bringing into effect is extremely reasonable given the attention to detail they are going through so it is really a moot point. I would without hesitation happily by the new version as compared against the previous iteration, but I would not expect it to sound "better", perhaps different. All of these differences are in the domain of sensitive measuring equipment which does not guarantee audibility in real life listening. I have been making that point not because I don't think it is fantastic that iFi wants to improve their offerings, but already we have existing Micro owners wondering if this new version will trump theirs in performance simply because some measures have shifted, and in a relative way these are likely modest shifts. The fact that they are modest shifts (in terms of audibility) are a testament to just how good the previous Micro really sounded.
  
 Anyway, I'm likely to purchase one of the new version myself so I'm not knocking it at all.


----------



## Whitigir

The one thing I do not understand though ...why dual mono DAC stage and dual amplification stage but in the end only offer Sungle ended connection and not even a balanced out


----------



## Topspin70

whitigir said:


> The one thing I do not understand though ...why dual mono DAC stage and dual amplification stage but in the end only offer Sungle ended connection and not even a balanced out


 
  
 Perhaps to keep a safe distance from the pro range, to avoid cannibalising their flag ship in terms of performance?


----------



## gr8soundz

sonic defender said:


> Absolutely, I agree, some blind, multiple trial listening tests are a great idea. I would be shocked if the differences aren't rather subtle, but that said, first I could easily be wrong, but more importantly, I think the small price difference that iFi is bringing into effect is extremely reasonable given the attention to detail they are going through so it is really a moot point. I would without hesitation happily by the new version as compared against the previous iteration, but I would not expect it to sound "better", perhaps different. All of these differences are in the domain of sensitive measuring equipment which does not guarantee audibility in real life listening. I have been making that point not because I don't think it is fantastic that iFi wants to improve their offerings, but already we have existing Micro owners wondering if this new version will trump theirs in performance simply because some measures have shifted, and in a relative way these are likely modest shifts. The fact that they are modest shifts (in terms of audibility) are a testament to just how good the previous Micro really sounded.
> 
> Anyway, I'm likely to purchase one of the new version myself so I'm not knocking it at all.


 
  
 I'm hoping the improvements are more pronounced (like the iCan SE vs. the original). The iDSD Micro was hard to improve upon so I doubt iFi would make a special edition if they hadn't found ways to make it better. At least they're posting snippets about each internal improvement rather than just saying 'here's a new coat of paint.'
  


whitigir said:


> The one thing I do not understand though ...why dual mono DAC stage and dual amplification stage but in the end only offer Sungle ended connection and not even a balanced out


 
  
 That was my first thought as well. It still has dual everything internally but no change to the SE out. Said they couldn't fit balanced out in the original but I agree the Black Label should be TRRS out or even mini XLR with included adapters. Something to make an even bigger leap over the original. Perhaps they couldn't find a way to get 8W balanced out in Turbo mode?
  
 I know they went with the PCM1793 in the original rather than the more revered 1792A but they said it was to get the desired lower noise floor. Looks like the Black Label is the same there.


----------



## Sonic Defender

topspin70 said:


> Perhaps to keep a safe distance from the pro range, to avoid cannibalising their flag ship in terms of performance?


 

 ​ I suspect it is to help lower reported noise and distortion figures.


----------



## iFi audio

whitigir said:


> The one thing I do not understand though ...why dual mono DAC stage and dual amplification stage but in the end only offer Sungle ended connection and not even a balanced out


 
 For several reasons, and space limitation both outside and inside, power supply and the fact, that having double d/a conversion and amplification stage doesn't mean anything just yet are among several important ones. 


sonic defender said:


> ​ I suspect it is to help lower reported noise and distortion figures.


 
 Yes, two d/a conversion chips lower the noise floor which is material because people use mainly IEMs.


----------



## iFi audio

jeffsmale said:


> A question about using the iDSD Micro with amplifiers and speakers:
> 
> Hey folks, got my unit Saturday, unpacked her yesterday but still haven't had time to sit down and put her through her paces. That won't be until tomorrow evening at the earliest.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you don't want to use a separate preamplifier with your AR 100.2, feed it with our Micro iDSD directly but (!!!) on  the latter's bottom please make sure to have the knob positioned on 'preamplifier' option. You'll be able to adjust the volume via this puppy, whereas 'direct' mode bypasses Micro iDSD's volume control and ought to be used with your integrated.


----------



## potatoe94

Dont we all just love iFi ?! Hahaha !


----------



## gr8soundz

ifi audio said:


> Yes, two d/a conversion chips lower the noise floor which is material because people use mainly IEMs.


 
  
 Any chance we will see dual PCM1792A chips in an iDSD?
  
 I was listening to my Essence ST card this past weekend and had forgotten how great that dac chip is.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Will be back in Singapore in December. Hopefully I'll have a chance to audition the new iDSD there. I've always consider the (old) iDSD Micro to be the end-all be-all portable DAC/amp, and now... Now this!


----------



## Sonic Defender

ifi audio said:


> ... which is material because people use mainly IEMs.


 
 I think it is the opposite based on my experience, people use headphones more. Now maybe in Asia there are consumer differences, that I'm not sure about, but I don't think in Europe or North America for instance that most people use IEMs. I'm sure a significant number of people do, but not most.
  
 Edit: I should add, I mean among the serious music consumption/audiophile crowd. Yes the non-audiophile crowd I suspect use IEMs more, but I doubt they are buying specialized audio products such as iFi make anyway.


----------



## iFi audio

balcy24 said:


> My portable rig has developed a problem. I am using an iDSD Micro connected to my iPhone 6 Plus with the CCK and using JRemote. Sometimes mid track, other times when a song starts, there is a noticeable "jitter" noise and the music tempo slows way down like there is a problem with the data flow. I have tried turning off the iDSD and unplugging the CCK and eventually it goes back to normal. The last time I got an error message that the device is using too much power (pretty common with the CCK from what I have read). I do make sure the iDSD is turned on first and have the latest firmware B installed.
> 
> I am thinking the CCK could be the issue. Any ideas?. .


 
 1. Open STS for more detailed tech support.
 2. From afar, best to reboot the App (try other Apps). Then try to swap out the CCK or micro iDSD. We don't think it is the micro iDSD because it should work or not work if it is the cause.


----------



## balcy24

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try other apps with the CCK and also using the iDSD through my laptop and JRMC which will eliminate the CCK.I may have to listen for a while as it only happened once every couple of hours or so.Darn!


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> Any chance we will see dual PCM1792A chips in an iDSD?
> 
> I was listening to my Essence ST card this past weekend and had forgotten how great that dac chip is.


 
 It is a fine d/a converter chip indeed, though Micro iDSD is a very fine machine in its class without it on-board as we prefer the other Burr-Brown!


----------



## gikigill

Mk2 on the way. Really looking forward to the slightly more forward bass.


----------



## gr8soundz

gikigill said:


> Mk2 on the way. Really looking forward to the slightly more forward bass.


 
  
 Where did you order it from? Haven't seen it appear for sale yet anywhere.
  
 I know iFi is doing the tour but I thought applications were being taken until the 30th.


----------



## gikigill

Adorama. 

http://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html


----------



## iFi audio

A few customers have asked about whisky, hence we thought we would post our thoughts. Regarding labels and all that usefull stuff, we surely have *some*. First, we are not talking about Aberlour or Lagavulin, otherwise we will be talking about AMR. Let's focus on Johnnie Wlaker.
  

  
 Red Label (US$20): malty and well-balanced, but lacks body, a safe but uninteresting blend. Get the Black label instead as it will be a big step up.
  

  
 Black Label (US$30):  smoky and peaty, very well balanced with a sweet ending, excellent value for money.
  

  
 Green Label (US$60): Sweet and complex, full body. Together with the Black Label, the two best value for money Johnnie Walkers.
  

  
 Gold Label (US$80): weak and flat, stick with the Black Label (smoky and peaty) or Green Label (sweet and full body) instead.
  

  
 Platinum Label (US$100): Malty, sweet and delicate, but low on the value for money scale.
  

  
 Blue Label (US$200): smooth, soft, round and full, almost to a fault. Lacking a bit of characters and a bit too dear for its quality.
  
  
*In part two, we'll cover how to get the most of whisky.*


----------



## Aegruin

ifi audio said:


> A few customers have asked about whisky, hence we thought we would post our thoughts. Regarding labels and all that usefull stuff, we surely have *some*. First, we are not talking about Aberlour or Lagavulin, otherwise we will be talking about AMR. Let's focus on Johnnie Wlaker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well... All of them stinks to high heaven for my taste. Especially Red Label. They cost $5 here. Local folk calls them "horse poison". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 But I never say no to a Bailey's or an Amarula with a Hifi sound that comes out from my iDSD.


----------



## iFi audio

aegruin said:


> Well... All of them stinks to high heaven for my taste. Especially Red Label. They cost $5 here. Local folk calls them "horse poison".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Alright, that's the spirit


----------



## Triodemode

Aside from the changes already listed, have there been any other improvements specifically regarding the headphone section on the black label?  And is there any updates on when it will become available in the US?


----------



## iFi audio

The photo above says it all... 
  
Brace yourselves, our Micro iDSD Black Label is just around the corner! And we mean it. But for those of you who do not keep track on our activities, this is a TLDR version of our recently posted tech talk entries.
  
  
*In short, iFi Audio Micro iDSD Black Label has:*
  

re-designed output stabilisation
OV2627 op-amps upgraded analogue section
Panasonic OSCON capacitors loaded power supply
OV2028 op-amps loaded DAC power supply
DAC voltage decoupling based on audio-grade ECPU film capacitors
GMT® Femto precision clock system power supply upgraded
  
*In short, iFi Audio Micro iDSD Black Label is:*
  

a tweaked to the roof original Micro iDSD
a satin black version (with silk orange writings) of original Micro iDSD
sonically much better version of original Micro iDSD
loaded with latest 3D+® and XBass+® tech, superior over ones in original Micro iDSD
10% higher price of $549 (ex-tax) / Euro599 (incl VAT)
superior to original Micro iDSD
  
 And here's something extra, parts below are the very reason why Micro iDSD Black Label is what it is.
  

  
 Almost there, Folks! Almost there...


----------



## xanlamin

ifi audio said:


> The photo above says it all...
> 
> Brace yourselves, our Micro iDSD Black Label is just around the corner! And we mean it. But for those of you who do not keep track on our activities, this is a TLDR version of our recently posted tech talk entries.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pls run a promotion for exising owners of the iDSD


----------



## bmoura

xanlamin said:


> Pls run a promotion for exising owners of the iDSD


 

 Great idea !


----------



## Franatic

xanlamin said:


> Pls run a promotion for exising owners of the iDSD


 
 ++1  
  
 I love my "old" micro idsd...........would have a hard time justifying a purchase of the new one. I would love to see an owner's comparison of them. Has that been done yet?


----------



## bmoura

franatic said:


> ++1
> 
> I love my "old" micro idsd...........would have a hard time justifying a purchase of the new one. I would love to see an owner's comparison of them. Has that been done yet?


 

 The original iDSD Micro is a good performer, especially for the price.
 Unfortunately the battery on mine no longer charges (stuck in flashing blue mode).
  
 So an upgrade offer to the iDSD Micro BL could be just the thing here....


----------



## rafaelpernil

bmoura said:


> The original iDSD Micro is a good performer, especially for the price.
> Unfortunately the battery on mine no longer charges (stuck in flashing blue mode).
> 
> So an upgrade offer to the iDSD Micro BL could be just the thing here....


 
 +1 If I could update my micro iDSD to this new Black Label edition by a fraction of the price, it would be nice!


----------



## proedros

waiting for the demo tour to start as i have enrolled for the EU tour, managed to listen today to the black label at the athens hifi show with my dx80 and i was quite floored 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i have zx2 and i love it , but the dx80+idsd black was a quite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 experience to my ears

 the slam , the musicality, the clarity , the spaciousness - all there.
  
 great job guys.


----------



## technobear

I wouldn't expect any money saving measures from iFi given that they appear to have just jacked up all their prices (in the UK at least) by around 20% :eek:

What's that all about?

Even the already expensive (for what they are) iSilencer3.0 and iDefender3.0 have leapt by 10% and they have only just launched :mad:

I was considering buying some of those...


----------



## gikigill

The pound has been dropping in value so prices will go up. It's been dropping since June.


----------



## Whitigir

ifi audio said:


> [COLOR=FF4400]
> [/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=44546A]The photo above says it all... [/COLOR]
> ...




Holy-molly.....damn....I am getting excited lol. This is serious stuff


----------



## proedros

*anyone pairing his idsd micro with dx80* *? how is the synergy with iems ?*

 i have a zx2 but curious if dx80+idsd will be an upgrade or just a sidegrade/overkill for using only with iems (not a user of full HP)

 thanx for any feedback here


----------



## rickyleelee

Went to Guangzhou AV Fair 2016 on 19-Nov-2016 (Sat) and tried iDSD micro BL at iFi showroom. I took some pictures with my DSLR and like to share here. The new BL sounds pretty good and I like the new color most (perfect match with my iPhone 7+ black). Can't wait to buy one! 
  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  

  

  
  
  

  

  
  

  
 Another surprise by iFi 'Pro' series. 
  

  
 The new headphones by Focal is out of my expectation and the sound quality incredible. Head its suggested retail price (U$4000) is pretty scary!
  
  

  
  

  
  
  

  

  
Bought this all-in-one device (RMB350) by a local brand - TECSUN at the AV Fair! Pretty good sound quality and performance! Surprise!


----------



## stuart1927

proedros said:


> *anyone pairing his idsd micro with dx80* *? how is the synergy with iems ?*
> 
> i have a zx2 but curious if dx80+idsd will be an upgrade or just a sidegrade/overkill for using only with iems (not a user of full HP)
> 
> thanx for any feedback here


 
 I have the ifi idsd micro and pair with the DX80. It's really a more appropriate pairing for full sized cans imho...I think the ifi is so powerfully that it's really overkill for most iems. You can use the various settings to tame the power, but with IEMs I get a great sound with the DX80 on it's own. The DX80 as a decent amp for IEMs so I would recommend keeping it simple.


----------



## Whitigir

The microIdsd can be used for IEMS just fine, but then I agree that it is a stackable device solution. It is only worth it when one is seeking for full size cans or to stack it to home stereo and so on.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I really hope to get an unit for a review but now I'm no longer in Singapore it's gonna be harder  Doesn't seem easy to borrow these stuffs in Hanoi


----------



## Rearwing

Fantastic photos. Thank you Rickyleelee.


----------



## iFi audio

rickyleelee said:


> Went to Guangzhou AV Fair 2016 on 19-Nov-2016 (Sat) and tried iDSD micro BL at iFi showroom. I took some pictures with my DSLR and like to share here. The new BL sounds pretty good and I like the new color most (perfect match with my iPhone 7+ black). Can't wait to buy one!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great stuff, thanks!


----------



## DarktoreS

The IDSD black is here yeahhh baby...


----------



## potatoe94

@iFi audio May you please make an iFi iDSD Micro trade-in available at Stereo Singapore ?


----------



## iFi audio

This lucky BL's life is nothing short but exceptionally pleasant! Why? Here's why!














Also... stay tuned for tomorrow!


----------



## Rob N

IDSD black label ordered


----------



## Nonpoint

ifi audio said:


> This lucky BL's life is nothing short but exceptionally pleasant! Why? Here's why!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you just sold 100 more units with this post.


----------



## sil3ntscr3am

Just tried out the new BL at Stereo (Singapore). Sounded great with Meze 12 Classics, Audeze EL8O and Senn HD650. Fed from iPhone via CCK.

Personally for me, I would veer towards the BL instead of the Schiit Jotunheim because of the flexibility of what the BL has to offer for desktop and portable solution.

And did I say it looks wicked with the satin black and orange? Black and orange is the new black...


----------



## Whitigir

Lol....you have too much movies in . I agree about the color of black and orange, they look dope


----------



## ClieOS

whitigir said:


> Lol....you have too much movies in . I agree about the color of black and orange, they look dope


 
  
 Black and gold-leafed, anyone?


----------



## Topspin70

sil3ntscr3am said:


> Just tried out the new BL at Stereo (Singapore). Sounded great with Meze 12 Classics, Audeze EL8O and Senn HD650. Fed from iPhone via CCK.
> 
> Personally for me, I would veer towards the BL instead of the Schiit Jotunheim because of the flexibility of what the BL has to offer for desktop and portable solution...




Did u get the chance to compare it with its predessessor? I expect it to be smoother but what's the highs like? Tamer?


----------



## sil3ntscr3am

topspin70 said:


> Did u get the chance to compare it with its predessessor? I expect it to be smoother but what's the highs like? Tamer?




I didn't get to fully compare both for an AB comparison as there were others waiting in line to try the unit...

For the quick impression between both, I felt the non-BL was a smidge darker (YMMV, only 2 tracks) than the BL. But the 3D+ and Xbass+ effects were more pronounced on the BL, which I preferred. 

Best to hear them out for yourself where possible...what's best is what's best sounding to you.


----------



## DarktoreS

IDSD Black-label and TH500 mod with grill black paint , only change pads for Hifiman focus model ! Good combo


----------



## iFi audio

Press Release: iFi Audio, Southport, UK - 30th November

 
  

 
 *Micro iDSD Black Label*
*The M-series. Evolved. *

 
    
 
 






 
 
  

 
 
 
  
 
 The micro iDSD Black Label is the world's most powerful DSD/PCM/DXD battery-powered DAC.

The Black Label looks good on the outside and functions even better than it looks with its sonics advanced with the very latest components. 

DAC digital signal and digital power sections upgraded
AMR Global Master Timing® femto-precision clock system upgraded for ‘super low’ phase-noise/jitter
Analogue signal and power sections revised
3D+®  performance-tuned / XBass+® performance-tuned
Latest Output stabilisation network offers less distortion
  
*The best, just got better.*
  
Sonically, much smoother, more weight and with a full-bodied mid-range. The bass is deeper and cleaner. The Black Label is, in every way, the ‘turbo charged’ version of the normally aspirated micro iDSD. 

*Special Features*

DAC digital signal and digital power sections upgraded
AMR Global Master Timing® femto-precision clock system upgraded for ‘super low’ phase-noise/jitter
Analogue signal and power sections revised
3D+  performance-tuned / XBass+ performance-tuned
Latest Output stabilization network offers less distortion
 *The retail price of the micro iDSD ‘Black Label’ is US$549 (ex-tax) or Euro599/£455 (incl VAT).*

 
  

 
 *Discover more at **http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd-bl/*

Regards,
The Team at iFi Audio

*About iFi*
iFi Audio, part of AGL, is headquartered in Southport, UK. And also owns the HiFi brand Abbingdon Music Research (AMR). AMR designs and manufacture high-end audio ‘home-based’ components. iFi Audio designs and manufactures portable and desktop ‘ultra-fidelity’ audio products. The combined in-house hardware and software development team enables AMR and iFi audio to bring to market advanced audio products.


----------



## chillaxing

Has anyone taken their micro apart and cleaned it?
  
 since it gotten colder where i'm at, it seems like the volume knob isn't turning as smoothly.  so i'm thinking of taking it apart and giving everything a good cleaning.


----------



## Triplefun

Taking it apart will not let you get at the 'sealed' volume control. Best way to clean it is to 'vigorously' trun it left / right a few times.


----------



## technobear

chillaxing said:


> Has anyone taken their micro apart and cleaned it?
> 
> since it gotten colder where i'm at, it seems like the volume knob isn't turning as smoothly.  so i'm thinking of taking it apart and giving everything a good cleaning.




Are you sure you haven't pushed the knob in so that it is rubbing the casework?

Try pulling it out slightly.


----------



## chillaxing

technobear said:


> Are you sure you haven't pushed the knob in so that it is rubbing the casework?
> 
> Try pulling it out slightly.




I'll try that when I get home, but I don't think I pushed it in. It just sits on my desk being used as a stand alone dac most of the time on direct mode connected to my stereo amp. I don't even turn it off much since it has sleep mode. But yeah, I'll give both your suggestions a go.


----------



## gr8soundz

chillaxing said:


> I'll try that when I get home, but I don't think I pushed it in. It just sits on my desk being used as a stand alone dac most of the time on direct mode connected to my stereo amp. I don't even turn it off much since it has sleep mode. But yeah, I'll give both your suggestions a go.


 
  
 If your Micro is mainly used with a desktop system I don't see how it would need that level of cleaning. Unless you're in an extremely dusty environment, don't see how dirt/dust could get inside.
  
 I put a rubber usb plug on the side port of mine and used rca noise caps on the rear ports when I wasn't using the line out. Other than that, just kept the regular dust off it. Also, as @Triplefun mentioned, the volume control is sealed.
  
 What if you open it up and find nothing but a pristine interior?


----------



## iFi audio

chillaxing said:


> I'll try that when I get home, but I don't think I pushed it in. It just sits on my desk being used as a stand alone dac most of the time on direct mode connected to my stereo amp. I don't even turn it off much since it has sleep mode. But yeah, I'll give both your suggestions a go.


 
 Correct. Just turn the vol. control to clean the tracks. Taking it apart is not a good idea as you can't clean the vol. pot anyway!


----------



## gikigill

Would some sort of deoxit work?


----------



## Triplefun

some people suggest compressed air spray can is a good idea.


----------



## chillaxing

Deoxit and compress air wont help it since its a sealed design.  As team iFi and another poster suggested, just turn the knob vigorously back and forth a couple of times.  I guess whatever lube or grease they use will harden up when its really cold.


----------



## Dvdlucena

Hello folks!
 Thank you, i'm a noobie and i'm leaning a lot with you guys.
  
 I have a Fiio x5ii and i'm thinking to buy the  ifi micro Idsd. But I'm really confused about the correct connection cable between Fiio x5 second generation and the  ifi micro Idsd.
 The  ifi micro Idsd RCA has any limitations?
  
 cheers


----------



## The Walrus

dvdlucena said:


> Hello folks!
> Thank you, i'm a noobie and i'm leaning a lot with you guys.
> 
> I have a Fiio x5ii and i'm thinking to buy the  ifi micro Idsd. But I'm really confused about the correct connection cable between Fiio x5 second generation and the  ifi micro Idsd.
> ...


 
 I guess you'll need the FiiO L21 cable.


----------



## technobear

dvdlucena said:


> The  ifi micro Idsd RCA has any limitations?




The RCA S/P-DIF input can handle up to 24 bits sample size and up to 192 kHz sample rate.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> The RCA S/P-DIF input can handle up to 24 bits sample size and up to 192 kHz sample rate.


 
 Oh, you were faster with this! Cheers!


----------



## iFi audio

*Measurements vis-à-vis sound quality - part 1*


At AMR/iFi, we go against the tide to some degree as we tend to refrain from publishing reams and reams of test data. There are those who like to pour over pages upon pages of test reports and get excited seeing 0.003% THD figures or 126dB SNR. We aren’t in that category.





This is because:

  

Making reliable measurements is not a ‘5 minute job.’ It takes hours if not a full day or two to properly execute.
Processing the raw test data for understandable publication takes even more time.
Most importantly, measurements shed little (if any) light on sound quality.
 

*1. Making reliable measurements*

As John Atkinson of Stereophile will attest, using an Audio Precision 2 measurement platform is not trivial. Complex measurements executed on such precise systems are significantly more challenging than checking DC voltage on a fully automatic multimeter. 

Take our previous iPOWER article as an example; while internally we measure constantly, we don't publish the specs until we have everything out of the way. To share with an outcome this specific, it takes at least one full day of proper test rig setup, calibration and recalibration. It’s as far from just sticking two probes somewhere and reading the display as it gets. The takeaway is that the AP2 takes time and effort and then needs to be checked and re-checked.







*2. Processing raw data takes time*

Each test or measurement provides more or less precise data but only provides a singular answer to one very specific question above all else; the Volt DC, THD&N or SNR figures…





Now, measuring DC (ideally under nominal load - which complicates things) tells one if a power supply operates on the most basic level. It tells one nothing about how much noise the power supply generates, which is far more informative. Point being, a basic digital multimeter is unable to measure the noise of a good quality power supply.

However, the results of many different measurements performed on a device, inform us about the device’s performance in strictly one specific test. The only conclusion that can be drawn from these procedures is if the device works as intended within the limits of each test. 





If we aimed for 0.005% THD and 0.05% THD is measured, we know that something is off as the product doesn’t work as intended. Said measurement result is needed in order to seek out the problem and correct it, therefore it is useful in this specific case. Yet what it does not provide is any _indication_ of sound quality, none at all.

*3. Measurements don't track sound quality*

Whole audio systems’ (headphones based and full-sized stereo) frequency response measurement is the only ‘tool’ designers currently have that shed light on audible quality. There is no other which would reliably correlate with what most of us would call ‘good sound’. And even though its usefulness has been proven to a reasonable degree, there are often exceptions. Therefore even this measurement is far from perfect.

There are strong indications that time-domain’s performance impact is far greater than previously thought. Yet its measurements methods aren’t standardised thus far and research with proper correlation has generally low statistical significance.

Past frequency and time-domain performance, as long as - for example - harmonic and intermodulation distortion is lower than its audibility limit (something that is incidentally not captured by the common ‘THD&N’ measurement), the distortion itself is inaudible. 





Similar qualifications of "as low as it's low enough" apply to noise and pretty much any other current audio measurement. So once a reasonable basic level of performance has been established in terms of traditional audio measurements, improving these parameters – _ceteris paribus_ - does not provide improved sound quality.

As to what is audible, this is a complex multi-dimensional picture and contains material for several doctorates and a professorship (at least). 

_"To illustrate the limits of distortion audibility and the utter uselessness of THD as a measure of quality please consider this. 
 For a 100Hz tone played at 100dB (arguably very loud) 2nd harmonic distortion lower than 3% and 3rd harmonic distortion lower than 1% will be completely inaudible. Yet if the 30th harmonic exceeds 0.003% this will be audible and has been shown to be objectionable. _

_So in one case a system with 3% THD at 100dB SPL would pass the ‘no audible distortion’ criteria. While in another case a system with 0.003% THD would not pass the ‘no audible distortion’ criteria!"_


This is of course hardly news, distortion audibility discussions are already known from dawn days of high fidelity in the 1950's. Yet this article provides a summary of the Audio of Distortion Audibility ca. 1957 state of knowledge and sadly, not much progress has been made since:

How Little Distortion can we hear

This extreme ambiguity in terms of measured performance with subjective sound quality correlation is one of the reasons why we do not generally publish extensive measurement results. It simply would be a waste of time, bits, electricity and paper.

And realistically, while we have our own views how “good sound” may be measured, to develop and promote such a system of tests is far outside the scope of a commercial operation and even if we were inclined to do so anyway, it would be likely as much of a fool’s errand as the work of D.E.L. Shorter of the BBC, Harry F. Olson of RCA and ongoing to Earl & Linda Geddes has been treated as by the audio engineering profession in general. ‘Chocolate fireguard’ springs to mind!

This is where our story's part one ends. Stay tuned, in the next one we'll shed some light on stuff we prefer to do.


----------



## Whitigir

I agree about measurements is not everything, and then even measurements and numbers do tell it own part of the story. Great read above

Also, human hearings are surprisingly good if they are trained and if it is into the familiarity that they were trained and practicing with. Some distortions is not hear-able or observable. But they do come under the form of Harshness, muddiness, grainy, and even canceling out microscopic details

I am glad to see how far IFI is doing in the developments  and loving the stuff that you guys are sharing and posting


----------



## Dvdlucena

Thank you for the reply.
Looking foward a side by side review: micro idsd VS micro idsd black label.

Cheers


----------



## HotIce

Where did you pick up this one? Google-fu picked up only your post ...
  


> _To illustrate the limits of distortion audibility and the utter uselessness of THD as a measure of quality please consider this. _ _For a 100Hz tone played at 100dB (arguably very loud) 2nd harmonic distortion lower than 3% and 3rd harmonic distortion lower than 1% will be completely inaudible. Yet if the 30th harmonic exceeds 0.003% this will be audible and has been shown to be objectionable. _


 
  
 Arguably, if you got 30th harmonics above 0.0, you may more into the radio transmitter business than audio amplification 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The link you posted does not seem to describe well the "audible by who?" criteria.
 How many individuals where part of the test?
 How was the human judgement test performed?
 Here's a more recent study, and an audible graph, which restricts the harmonic powers to audio more than radio:
  
 http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/audibility-of-distortion-at-bass/total-harmonic-distortion-thd


----------



## Dvdlucena

knorris908 said:


> *This answer is SPECIFIC to my Sennheiser HD-650s.  For all our other headphones/earplugs there is little to no difference between the iFi Micro and ASGARD 2 beyond the ASGARD 2 can get them louder, but BOTH make our other headphones louder than we could ever listen to them.*
> I've described it before in other posts, I LOVE the iFi Micro as DAC with my ASGARD 2.  If I compared just using the iFi Micro as a DAC with the ASGARD 2 vs Just using the iFi Micro alone, I'd say that the iFi Micro is REALLY good, getting it up to around 90% of what I get out of the ASGARD 2, but there is just a little more definition, wider soundstage, and just a little more "weight" to music when my headphones are powered by the ASGARD 2.




I'm trying to connect my micro idsd to Asgard 2. Is there any configuration that a must do in the idsd and Asgard to get your same results?

Thank you


----------



## iFi audio

hotice said:


> Where did you pick up this one? Google-fu picked up only your post ...


 
  
 It is summarised and paraphrased from:
 L.D. Fielder, E.M. Benjamin , “Subwoofer Performance for Accurate Reproduction of Music”, J. Aud. Eng. Soc., Vol. 36, No. 6, pp. 443-456 (1988 June). You might not remember it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
 Quote:


hotice said:


> Arguably, if you got 30th harmonics above 0.0, you may more into the radio transmitter business than audio amplification


 
  
 The 30th harmonic of 100Hz is 3kHz and the 30th harmonic of 300Hz is 9kHz. It should be noted here that the fundamentals of many instruments and of human voices fall into the 100 - 300Hz region. So the 30th harmonic is very relevant to audio. 
  


hotice said:


> Here's a more recent study, and an audible graph, which restricts the harmonic powers to audio more than radio


 
  
 As the study cited restricted itself to on the 2nd to 5th harmonic it is next to useless in modern audio systems where often quite high order distortion products at low but significant levels exist. 
 More curious is why someone would invest time and effort in a study which merely confirms prior work done multiple times and has not been designed to give any meaningful improvement over prior work, indeed it seems a retrograde step over research that is decades old and published in the JAES.


----------



## iFi audio

dvdlucena said:


> I'm trying to connect my micro idsd to Asgard 2. Is there any configuration that a must do in the idsd and Asgard to get your same results?
> 
> Thank you


 
 As per usual in such cases, please use our STS platform, we'll surely help you with your issue there.
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Dvdlucena

What do you think of chord mojo?


----------



## HotIce

> It is summarised and paraphrased from:
> L.D. Fielder, E.M. Benjamin , “Subwoofer Performance for Accurate Reproduction of Music”, J. Aud. Eng. Soc., Vol. 36, No. 6, pp. 443-456 (1988 June). You might not remember it


 
  
 Thanks, I have not read it at all. Google did not pick up the quote as that's a private AES paper.
  


> The 30th harmonic of 100Hz is 3kHz and the 30th harmonic of 300Hz is 9kHz. It should be noted here that the fundamentals of many instruments and of human voices fall into the 100 - 300Hz region. So the 30th harmonic is very relevant to audio.


 
  
 I was clearly joking, I can multiply 100 by 30 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My point is that, if your audio design emits 30th harmonics at a significant level, you are doing something wrong.
 I would also be curious about the human judgement testing procedure, because without that, I can state I hear 0.000001% distortion and nobody can argue.
 The reason papers w/out an agenda restricts to a sane harmonic levels (<8) is because you've got to be doing things really really wrong (hence the radio joke) in order for your design to emit 30th harmonics.
 Take a silly opamp, implement the silly data sheet example circuit, and 100Hz 30th harmonic distortion residuals will be way down the audibility floor.
 100 Hz is trivial to get it right, because the phase of NFB is pretty much 180deg spot on.
 More critical are higher frequencies eventually, but then, higher harmonics fall out of the audibility range (and follow up devices FR).


----------



## Joseph Lin

Does anyone get a BL version yet? How's the SQ? Is there any changes in the amp area? Looking for a portable powerful dac/amp to drive my T1.


----------



## Dvdlucena

joseph lin said:


> Does anyone get a BL version yet? How's the SQ? Is there any changes in the amp area? Looking for a portable powerful dac/amp to drive my T1.


 
  
 I looking forward this review!!!


----------



## chillaxing

@iFi audio Why didn't you guys implement the 2 step bass boost in the iDsD BL like the one on the ican se?


----------



## iFi audio

chillaxing said:


> @iFi audio Why didn't you guys implement the 2 step bass boost in the iDsD BL like the one on the ican se?


 
 Because it's not iCAN SE. Some features are reserved for specific products for a number of reasons, not every device we deliver can have every bit of our proprietary tech. For example, real estate limitations!


----------



## iFi audio

*Measurements vis-à-vis sound quality - part 2*

*Part 2: So what is our approach?*

So there you have it. Measurements shed not much light on sound quality is our core belief. And that’s the key reason behind why we measure minimally and audition maximally. And we mean a lot of man hours.

As for our somewhat different stance, this is how we prefer to approach things:

1. To listen, listen and then listen even more, systematically and blindfolded as much as possible. 
2. To show the internal components and the changes where we apply in our products.
3. To let people to listen and decide for themselves if they like the sound of the product or not. ‘Under the hood’ knowledge and personal experience is all they need. 

OK, but to say that one has to listen isn’t good enough for many enthusiasts. As discussed previously, measurements aren’t very helpful outside of our skunkworks, hence let’s leave these to one side for the moment.

But we understand that some of you need something direct, a proof and a basis of an improvement from one model to its next iteration. This we can happily provide. Below you’ll find two sides of Micro iDSD Black Label’s PCB. These show the exact internal components which were upgraded in comparison to the original iDSD model. Yes, 34 elements in total are behind why (thankfully!) people are hearing for themselves from customers who have taken a ‘sip’ of our own Black Label. 



  

  

*The Digital Engine:*

D1. DAC Power supply upgraded with iFi custom ultra-low noise Operationsverstärker OV2028
D2. DAC reference voltage decoupling changed to Panasonic audio-grade ECPU film capacitors
D3. Digital power supplies upgraded with ultra-low impedance Panasonic OSCON capacitors
D4. GMT® Femto precision clock system power supply upgraded for super low phase-noise/jitter

*The Analogue section:*

A1. Analogue section upgraded with iFi custom low noise FET input Operationsverstärker OV2627
A2. Analogue power supplies upgraded with Ultra-low impedance Panasonic OSCON capacitors
A3. 3D+® performance-tuned
A4. XBass+® performance-tuned
A5. Re-designed Output Stabilisation network for less distortion

For 3D+® & XBass+® we adjusted based on wide ranging customer feedback after a period of field testing different adjustments.

The next step is in the listening.


----------



## Wyd4

Must say I am really enjoying the idsd micro (normal one). 

This bl bizzo must be the.... Bizzo


----------



## DarktoreS




----------



## iFi audio

darktores said:


>


 
  
 Ah, it makes a perfect sense to write several words about this adventure!


----------



## rickyleelee

dvdlucena said:


> What do you think of chord mojo?


 
  
Good value at 250 UK pounds here in Asia. A fair few used demo units for sale. Better than the nano slightly worse than the micro and not close to the BL. ymmv.


----------



## jsplice

Just got my Micro iDSD and Focal Elear this past week.  The Elear ended up being way more sensitive than I was expecting.  Running the iDSD in "eco" mode, I rarely bring the volume past 9 o'clock.  The only problem with this is sometimes with very loud albums, I get the typical L-R linearity issue when the volume pot gets turned down very low.  I do love the sound of the unit, but this may actually have TOO much power for my needs.


----------



## technobear

jsplice said:


> Just got my Micro iDSD and Focal Elear this past week.  The Elear ended up being way more sensitive than I was expecting.  Running the iDSD in "eco" mode, I rarely bring the volume past 9 o'clock.  The only problem with this is sometimes with very loud albums, I get the typical L-R linearity issue when the volume pot gets turned down very low.  I do love the sound of the unit, but this may actually have TOO much power for my needs.




On the underside of the iDSD, you will find the IEMatch switch. Try the 'High Sensitivity' setting.


----------



## iFi audio

> Originally Posted by *HotIce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My point is that, if your audio design emits 30th harmonics at a significant level, you are doing something wrong.


 
  
 We have the equipment to make such tests (e.g. 30th harmonic) so the following reply is our experience beyond the textbook. Bear with us. 
  


> Originally Posted by *HotIce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Take a silly opamp, implement the silly data sheet example circuit, and 100Hz 30th harmonic distortion residuals will be way down the audibility floor.


 
  
 This is a presumption. Take this quoted silly Op-Amp, drive a low impedance headphone to 1V output  and measure.
  
 With this the Op-Amp's output stage has long left Class A and produces a very extended spray of harmonics at quite high levels before the application of negative feedback and the negative feedback starts rolling off at 10...100Hz, so as the order of harmonics rises, feedback drops at 20dB/decade. 
  
 There is your 30th harmonic right in the middle of the frequency range where the human ear is most sensitive and at audible levels!
  
 It is all fine to theorise and to make declarations as to how things ought to be. But reality and actual observations can (and usually) show such declarations wanting and incomplete, if not sometimes outright false. We are trying to be difficult we are just not sugar-coating our reply from our quite extensive experience.
  
 There is a whole debate that is often acrimonious and always emotionally charged, which we do not need or wish to replicate here.
  
 For those who really want to know what the stand of objective knowledge is, an associate AES Membership is possible and relatively inexpensive (and includes access to all material the AES has archived) and gives a much better source than what is posted on the internet. 
  
 Other publications (such as AES/JAES and EDN) also often carry interesting material, which may or may not pass peer review but which we find tends to be sourced far more solidly and rigorously than what one you usually finds published on the net.


----------



## DarktoreS

Hey IFi-Audio Guy ? Thank you for the  Micro IDSD Black-label is simply fantasic realy ! I compare with the Micro IDSD v1, for me is very good evolution not revolution.... The V1 conserve a good quality, but on my DT1990 with this IDSD-Black I have more space, more detail, more transparancy, and very good balanced sound...  Little effect but good effect


----------



## HotIce

ifi audio said:


> We have the equipment to make such tests (e.g. 30th harmonic) so the following reply is our experience beyond the textbook. Bear with us.
> 
> 
> This is a presumption. Take this quoted silly Op-Amp, drive a low impedance headphone to 1V output  and measure.
> ...


 
  
 Look, I am not going to tell which company I work for, but we do have "some" equipment to measure, and labs open to engineers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Testing 10..100Hz for an opamp, is like testing a F1 rider on a LEGO car track.
 It is, given the typical slew rate, and phase of the load at such frequency, by all means, DC analysis.
 At that frequency, the 30th (or even the 6th) will be down to galactic background noise levels.
 As said in a previous post, things "might" get iffier at higher frequencies, but at those, likely not even the 2nd harmonic will fit human hearing capability.
  
 But instead of citing documents that most people have no access, here's one relatively old (2009), but not so much (Audio Precision testing machinery used):
  
 http://www.nanovolt.ch/resources/ic_opamps/pdf/opamp_distortion.pdf
  
 You may want to pay attention where it is mentioned the irrelevance of testing distortion at low frequencies, because at such frequencies figure a little "shy".
 Note that such test includes also opamps which are not meant for audio, and not at 1Vrms but at 20V peek-to-peek.


----------



## jsplice

I'm having some trouble getting DSD to work properly with Foobar2000 in Windows 10.  I've installed the driver provided by iFi, and found the PDF with instructions on how to configure DSD in Foobar2000.  However, the instructions show how to do it using the ASIO driver.  I do not see any options for ASIO in my Foobar2000 output settings even after installing the provided iFi driver.
  
 When I try to play DSD using the WASAPI driver, the light on the unit does show blue to indicate DSD, but I get crazy static and noise through the headphones.
  
 Has anyone had issues here>


----------



## Triplefun

Hi
  
 Foo Input SACD - https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_input_sacd/foo_input_sacd-1.0.2.zip/download
 Foo output ASIO - https://sourceforge.net/projects/foobar2000-wasap2-output/
  
  
 Download the above components
 And follow these instructions
http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/DSD%20native%20instructions%20(Foobar-ASIO).pdf
  
 Note your PC must have sufficient processing capacity to process the DSD upsampling. This is typically an I3 6100 or better.
  
 Alternatively, if your PC is dedicated to audio you might also look at Daphile
 Daphile is a dedicated audiophile Linux extract that I think is better than Foobar
 It also removes a lot of the overheads and licensing of Windows and is a lot more efficient
 Setting up Dapahile is a lot easier than foobar - see www.daphile.com for more details
 You don't need to install any special drivers or process elaborate configurations
  
 Ideally to make the best of the micro your should be looking at upsampling all music to DSD256


----------



## technobear

triplefun said:


> Ideally to make the best of the micro your should be looking at upsampling all music to DSD256




That certainly is not a universal recommendation. It is something you can try. You may prefer it on certain recordings.

If you have good quality recordings, well mastered and in a lossless format, they are best played native. PCM recordings are at their best in Bit Perfect mode on the iDSD.

Less good recordings may be smoothed out a little using Minimum Phase mode.

MP3 files may well benefit from upconversion to DSD512. With MP3, the music is already damaged beyond repair and can never be fully recovered but this may smooth it out and make it more tolerable to listen to.

Upsampling good files to DSD512 throws the baby out with the bathwater in my experience. It's great if you want your iDSD to sound like a Chord Mojo etc. but who would want that when Bit Perfect is available and the iDSD does it so well.


----------



## technobear

jsplice said:


> I'm having some trouble getting DSD to work properly with Foobar2000...




http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4170#post_11779584


----------



## keeper58

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/comment-page-1/#comment-1856


----------



## HotIce

technobear said:


> On the underside of the iDSD, you will find the IEMatch switch. Try the 'High Sensitivity' setting.


 
  
 I suggest you try this, as it totally fixed the volume mismatch I had when feeing hight sensitivity HPs.
 That setting moved the volume knob operating position from around 9am (where I was experiencing mismatches) to around 11am, where LR match is spot on.


----------



## apaar123

Is it portable or do I have to power them?


----------



## HotIce

apaar123 said:


> Is it portable or do I have to power them?


 
  
 The iDSD?
 Yes, it is portable, as in, it has a battery.
 I would call it more transportable than portable, as it is a bit big.
 But then depends on how you move around.
 If you have a bag, no problem. Carrying it on pockets might be cumbersome.


----------



## apaar123

hotice said:


> The iDSD?
> Yes, it is portable, as in, it has a battery.
> I would call it more transportable than portable, as it is a bit big.
> But then depends on how you move around.
> If you have a bag, no problem. Carrying it on pockets might be cumbersome.


yeah I will be carrying it in a bag. Btw how does this http://m.ebay.com/itm/152060975210
Compare to imicro. What are the differnces?


----------



## jsplice

technobear said:


> That certainly is not a universal recommendation. It is something you can try. You may prefer it on certain recordings.
> 
> If you have good quality recordings, well mastered and in a lossless format, they are best played native. PCM recordings are at their best in Bit Perfect mode on the iDSD.
> 
> ...


 
  
 While I haven't delved deep into the subject of upsampling to DSD, I do know that my PS Audio DirectStream DAC does this with everything it outputs, and this DAC sounds absolutely incredible.  Of course, it's not just the upsampling to DSD that is responsible for that.
  
 I will play around with all of this in Foobar.  I was able to get it outputting DSD by playing around, and my end settings were a bit different than those described in some of the instructions found, but I am using the two plugins with Foobar that are required.


----------



## frogmeat69

apaar123 said:


> yeah I will be carrying it in a bag. Btw how does this http://m.ebay.com/itm/152060975210
> Compare to imicro. What are the differnces?


 

 I don't think the iDAC has a battery, pretty sure it is usb powered. Amazon has the original iDSD cheaper than the iDAC in that listing.
 I love my iDSD Micro, using it as my DAC for the iCan Pro.


----------



## apaar123

frogmeat69 said:


> I don't think the iDAC has a battery, pretty sure it is usb powered. Amazon has the original iDSD cheaper than the iDAC in that listing.
> I love my iDSD Micro, using it as my DAC for the iCan Pro.


better than chord mojo?


----------



## jsplice

So far, I've only been using the iDSD hooked up to my desktop PC.  I found that the sound in battery powered mode is a good deal better than direct USB power (not surprisingly).  I have a concern though regarding battery longevity, and wasn't sure what other owners have been doing.
  
 As the manual states, to run this in battery powered mode, you have to make sure the unit it not connected via USB, and is powered off.  You then power the unit on (the green LED will first light then start blinking slowly), and THEN connect via USB.  This is what I do, and it works great.  However, when the unit goes idle, or I'm finished listening and turn the unit off, it automatically begins charging again (as indicated by the blue LED).
  
 My fear is that this small discharge, small recharge cycle could damage the battery.
  
 Anyone share this concern and/or have a solution that doesn't involve actually unhooking the USB cable every time I finish using it?


----------



## frogmeat69

apaar123 said:


> better than chord mojo?


 

 Never tried the Mojo, sorry.


----------



## technobear

jsplice said:


> Anyone share this concern and/or have a solution that doesn't involve actually unhooking the USB cable every time I finish using it?




Can your PC be awoken with the mouse or keyboard?

If so, just leave the iDSD turned ON. It will go into it's own sleep mode when you stop listening and it won't overcharge the battery (I think iFi said about 80% in this mode).

If you turn the iDSD OFF then it will recharge the battery to 100% every time the PC provides power.


----------



## iFi audio

frogmeat69 said:


> I don't think the iDAC has a battery, pretty sure it is usb powered. Amazon has the original iDSD cheaper than the iDAC in that listing.
> I love my iDSD Micro, using it as my DAC for the iCan Pro.


 
 Yup, iDAC isn't battery based product.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

apaar123 said:


> better than chord mojo?


think of them as different. The mojo is smoother and more musical. The idsd is more neutral and analytical. But it's not night and day


----------



## Beolab

.


----------



## Triodemode

Been listening to the iDSD micro Black Label for the last couple days now, and find it is much more refined and musical sounding than the original iDSD micro that it replaced. The music just seems to flow more effortlessly and smoother with more finesse.  Sound staging, inner detail, micro and macro dynamic contrasts are all beautifully conveyed as well.  Absolutely no harshness or sibilance in the music, but at the same time not at all dark sounding.
  
 Also the bass boost frequency curve is spot on and works well with older bass shy recordings (but sometimes it can be a bit much), while the original was a tad bit too subtle.
  
 BTW, using the BL with a their iUSB 3.0 connected to a Violectric V200 with Beyerdynamic DT1990's, and using an Audio Technica R70X straight from the BL's headphone jack.
  
 Truly an excellent job ifi in taking the original to a whole other level, and all for only an extra $50!


----------



## jsplice

technobear said:


> Can your PC be awoken with the mouse or keyboard?
> 
> If so, just leave the iDSD turned ON. It will go into it's own sleep mode when you stop listening and it won't overcharge the battery (I think iFi said about 80% in this mode).
> 
> If you turn the iDSD OFF then it will recharge the battery to 100% every time the PC provides power.


 
 Thanks for the reply.
  
 I tried doing what you said, by just leaving the iDSD on, and letting it fall asleep on its own.  However, once it did this, it still started charged again on its own, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't below an 80% charge.
  
 I'm curious as to which mode people use most when using the iDSD at their computers.  Do you all use USB-powered mode, or battery-powered mode?


----------



## Beolab

.


----------



## canali

triodemode said:


> Been listening to the iDSD micro Black Label for the last couple days now, and find it is much more refined and musical sounding than the original iDSD micro that it replaced. The music just seems to flow more effortlessly and smoother with more finesse.  Sound staging, inner detail, micro and macro dynamic contrasts are all beautifully conveyed as well.  Absolutely no harshness or sibilance in the music, but at the same time not at all dark sounding.
> 
> Also the bass boost frequency curve is spot on and works well with older bass shy recordings (but sometimes it can be a bit much), while the original was a tad bit too subtle.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks...I might have missed it, but was this a side by side comparison?


----------



## Triodemode

canali said:


> Thanks...I might have missed it, but was this a side by side comparison?


 

 Yes...  I have had the original for over a year now so the change was immediately noticeable.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

triodemode said:


> Been listening to the iDSD micro Black Label for the last couple days now, and find it is much more refined and musical sounding than the original iDSD micro that it replaced. The music just seems to flow more effortlessly and smoother with more finesse.  Sound staging, inner detail, micro and macro dynamic contrasts are all beautifully conveyed as well.  Absolutely no harshness or sibilance in the music, but at the same time not at all dark sounding.
> 
> Also the bass boost frequency curve is spot on and works well with older bass shy recordings (but sometimes it can be a bit much), while the original was a tad bit too subtle.
> 
> ...


 thanks for the comparison. How do you find the new idsd compared to the Mojo or m9xx?


----------



## Triodemode

williamleonhart said:


> thanks for the comparison. How do you find the new idsd compared to the Mojo or m9xx?


 
  
 I do not have any experience with either the Mojo or m9xx William.  Hopefully some other members who now have both can help.


----------



## xanlamin

I owned mojo and m9xx before and I say iDSD BL is better in all areas except portability. Wish iFi can work some magic in the next iteration and make it as small as the mojo.


----------



## willywill

xanlamin said:


> I owned mojo and m9xx before and I say iDSD BL is better in all areas except portability. Wish iFi can work some magic in the next iteration and make it as small as the mojo.


 
 Smartphone and DAP have grown in size, the Mojo look out of place with a phone like the Iphone+ or a Note, the IFI is a brick it is more of a desktop application.


----------



## canali

some can hear a diff..some can't...in side by side comparisons (not done in depth) i am one of those that cannot.
 they sound basically the same to my untrained. ears.


----------



## iFi audio

xanlamin said:


> I owned mojo and m9xx before and I say iDSD BL is better in all areas except portability. Wish iFi can work some magic in the next iteration and make it as small as the mojo.


 
  
 Perhaps in the future something along those lines will happen. 
   
 Quote:


willywill said:


> Smartphone and DAP have grown in size, the Mojo look out of place with a phone like the Iphone+ or a Note, the IFI is a brick it is more of a desktop application.


 
  
 Transportable, yes.


----------



## joshnor713

I've owned the Mojo, and while it's a fantastic DAC, I think the iDSD sounds fuller, has wider soundstage, and a tad more detailed (with my SE846). The Mojo is more musical definitely, and I think that's mostly what wins peoples' hearts, but I prefer the iDSD's sound overall. Really, can't go wrong with either DAC.


----------



## rickyleelee

interesting. night and day difference for me. I don't think I have goldne ears. my wife heard the Bl and said better by some more. So she let me get one. she is the master of the house.


----------



## Beolab

@iFi Audio

Question: 

Can you please tell us in what frequency span the XBass setting are boosting and how many db 's does it boost?

Looking forward for your answer!

Keep up the good work!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

joshnor713 said:


> I've owned the Mojo, and while it's a fantastic DAC, I think the iDSD sounds fuller, has wider soundstage, and a tad more detailed (with my SE846). The Mojo is more musical definitely, and I think that's mostly what wins peoples' hearts, but I prefer the iDSD's sound overall. Really, can't go wrong with either DAC.





xanlamin said:


> I owned mojo and m9xx before and I say iDSD BL is better in all areas except portability. Wish iFi can work some magic in the next iteration and make it as small as the mojo.


 Sound to me like the idsd's full potential is realized!


----------



## Dvdlucena

williamleonhart said:


> Sound to me like the idsd's full potential is realized!





The major problem for a smaller product is the lossess of the output lines as the rca and other
I have a little felling that mojos output for dedicated amp is worse than rca...
Or maybe is just my Chinese fake golden cable...

Si


----------



## canali

rickyleelee said:


> interesting. night and day difference for me. I don't think I have goldne ears. my wife heard the Bl and said better by some more. So she let me get one. she is the master of the house.


 
 please clone her...and fast...
 nothing like a new edition of ''the stepford wives'' ala westworld/audiophile edition.





  
 about to p/u a pair of audioengine a5+ speakers for a song (US$210)...will be interesting to see how the ifi micro idsd works with it


----------



## joshnor713

Got my BL in and been testing it vs. the original iDSD. Definite refinement on the lows and highs, but that negatively impacted the mids to my ears. Vocals and such on the original sound more open to me. Not a deal breaker but something to consider. I use the SE846.
  
 I am having an issue with the new model that will be a deal breaker though, when connected to my DP-X1 transport. I'm getting playback clipping (sounds like a _popping_). Strangely, it happens with streaming apps (Tidal, Play Music), not with players like UAPP. This did not happen with my original iDSD. Dunno if it's a bug or I have a defective unit.


----------



## iFi audio

beolab said:


> @iFi Audio
> 
> Question:
> 
> ...


 
  
 We prefer not to divulge as this sails a little too close to how we implement ASP. Hope you understand!


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> Can your PC be awoken with the mouse or keyboard?
> 
> If so, just leave the iDSD turned ON. It will go into it's own sleep mode when you stop listening and it won't overcharge the battery (I think iFi said about 80% in this mode).
> 
> If you turn the iDSD OFF then it will recharge the battery to 100% every time the PC provides power.


 
  
 It is designed to do that. Here's how it works:
  
 If no signal is playing for three minutes in battery powered mode, the iDSD micro will go to sleep. It will power down the whole analogue circuitry, which - especially in normal and turbo mode -accounts for the lion share of the power draw. Then, while "asleep", the iDSD micro's charging circuitry will be enabled to a 80% completion point. Then said process will be stopped. 
  
 It will disable charging again under two conditions: 
  
 1) The signal resumes - in this case charging will turn off and the analogue circuitry is powered up again.
 2) The charging current is significantly below 500mA - which indicates the iDSD micro is attached to many smartphones. This was intended to avoid drawing down the smartphone battery. More recent Android phones however do supply the full 500mA and cannot be identified this way (or any way actually) and this function is less useful.
  
 In the end, attaching the iDSD micro to a computer in battery power mode will charge the battery when in sleep mode to keep it full. Yet it won't charge and disconnect the power from the host when playing music. Best of both worlds.


----------



## Beolab

ifi audio said:


> We prefer not to divulge as this sails a little too close to how we implement ASP. Hope you understand!




Hi 
, i do understand it is confidential info, but like in the iCan Pro you got xBass 10 , 20, 30 and 40 hz, to choose from, so what xBass setting of the Pro ican equals on the iDSD ? 

Please answer that


----------



## 227qed

^^I can't find it, but I remember seeing a frequency response plot for the idsd and ican normal editions. The ican was roughly +10 db peak at 30 hz and the idsd wad +5 db at 30 hz I think. Doesn't bleed into the mids, it's implemented really well. A quick listening test with my ican just now showed me that it's really strong as low as 20 hz. 10 hz not so much, but still a noticeable difference. At those low frequencies though I was getting limited by power. An ican SE probably has the gobstacles of power necessary to drive the low frequencies with authority. I posted a video in the extreme bass club forum recently giving a demo of the xbass efficacy at 30 hz. Huge difference so long as you're eqing. Xbass seems to scale with eq so there really isn't a definite plot or number to stamp on it.


----------



## joshnor713

joshnor713 said:


> I am having an issue with the new model that will be a deal breaker though, when connected to my DP-X1 transport. I'm getting playback clipping (sounds like a _popping_). Strangely, it happens with streaming apps (Tidal, Play Music), not with players like UAPP. This did not happen with my original iDSD. Dunno if it's a bug or I have a defective unit.


 
  
 I retract what I said here. Turns out that it's a newly developed issue with my DP-X1. Tried the BL with my phone and no issue. Also connected the DP-X1 to my original iDSD and notice the same clipping sound. Dunno why it's happening now, it wasn't before. But good to know it isn't the DAC's fault.


----------



## Beolab

227qed said:


> ^^I can't find it, but I remember seeing a frequency response plot for the idsd and ican normal editions. The ican was roughly +10 db peak at 30 hz and the idsd wad +5 db at 30 hz I think. Doesn't bleed into the mids, it's implemented really well. A quick listening test with my ican just now showed me that it's really strong as low as 20 hz. 10 hz not so much, but still a noticeable difference. At those low frequencies though I was getting limited by power. An ican SE probably has the gobstacles of power necessary to drive the low frequencies with authority. I posted a video in the extreme bass club forum recently giving a demo of the xbass efficacy at 30 hz. Huge difference so long as you're eqing. Xbass seems to scale with eq so there really isn't a definite plot or number to stamp on it.




Thanks alot four your info, i was guessing that answer, that it floats/scale with the EQ and the music you listening to. 

I read that the Xbass+ are not sounding the same through the RCA, because it is meant for amps and speakers, so it is tuned diffrently. 
My plan is to connect the iDSD B L to a separat amp that i drive my headphones with the Xbass+ engaged, do you have any experience of this? 

If the Xbass+ through RCA + Amp + hp impact are going to be a bad experience vs the stereo jack output on the iDSD B L ?

Then how many SW releases have bin made for the old iDSD ?


----------



## 227qed

beolab said:


> Thanks alot four your info, i was guessing that answer, that it floats/scale with the EQ and the music you listening to.
> 
> I read that the Xbass+ are not sounding the same through the RCA, because it is meant for amps and speakers, so it is tuned diffrently.
> My plan is to connect the iDSD B L to a separat amp that i drive my headphones with the Xbass+ engaged, do you have any experience of this?
> ...




Yeah, that's really what makes it so special--you can just set it and forget it since it depends on the track and eq. The only audible difference us in the bass frequencies, especially sub bass, as it should be. 

Additionally, it is really high quality bass and sound you get. Like the difference between $5 and $100 earbuds, that's not an exaggeration. Cheaper amps can still give the same levels of bass with eq (cayin c5 for example), but it sounds flabby, the mids are "cheaper" sounding, and the treble is dark and recessed by comparison. This is all largely headphone dependent for sure though. I can tell you the ican is magical with my jvc sz2000, and meh with the psb m4u2. Getting some Massdrop X00s tomorrow, and I do believe it will be magical with them as well. 

And the 3d switch basically brings out the treble so it isn't lost in the thunder. I just realized that I really love a u shaped signature, and the ican is splendid for this. It really shines in games and movies. I don't watch or play without the 3d and xbass on max settings at all times. 

...okay raving done hah. I can't answer your question about the idsd confidently, and don't want to give you misleading information. Sorry! But.. if someone can confirm, i believe the xbass circuitry is independent of the rca out. I.e, it's only a the dac portion that handles digital to rca out. The normal 6.3mm headphone jack out will be amped obviously, so if used as a preamp, the signal will have the xbass and you'll probably get a boost using the second amp. I would say youd need a 6.3mm to rca adapter to run to your amp, but unless you're a major audiophile with a 4 figure amp, youll be really happy with the idsd bl as a dac or dac/amp. Good luck, let me know what you find and decide!


----------



## rickyleelee

wife says if when her sister is free, i can pm you


----------



## Beolab

227qed said:


> Yeah, that's really what makes it so special--you can just set it and forget it since it depends on the track and eq. The only audible difference us in the bass frequencies, especially sub bass, as it should be.
> 
> Additionally, it is really high quality bass and sound you get. Like the difference between $5 and $100 earbuds, that's not an exaggeration. Cheaper amps can still give the same levels of bass with eq (cayin c5 for example), but it sounds flabby, the mids are "cheaper" sounding, and the treble is dark and recessed by comparison. This is all largely headphone dependent for sure though. I can tell you the ican is magical with my jvc sz2000, and meh with the psb m4u2. Getting some Massdrop X00s tomorrow, and I do believe it will be magical with them as well.
> 
> ...




Thanks alot! 

Yes that is the question if the xBass works the same trough the RCA outputs if it set to Line out mode, or if xBass only works through the stereo jack, may e someone can answer and clarify?


----------



## technobear

beolab said:


> 227qed said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, that's really what makes it so special--you can just set it and forget it since it depends on the track and eq. The only audible difference us in the bass frequencies, especially sub bass, as it should be.
> ...




Direct Mode - 2V fixed output (in Eco mode), no XBASS, no 3D, no volume control

Preamp Mode - variable output according to volume control, XBASS, 3D for Speakers

Note that 3D for Speakers is very different from 3D for Headphones.

See: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-black-label-tour-details-page-147-release-info-page-153/720#post_10625021

I can't at the moment find anything that says XBASS is different out of the RCAs. It doesn't seem to come up in any of the tech talk.


----------



## oncdoc

Can someone help me to get the imicro idsd black to play audio. I charged it overnight. 
  
 Im connecting it directly via the usb3 cable supplied to the pc (tried this on three pc's) with windows 10.
 I have the ifi driver installed. the computer recognized it. In fact, when I go to "playback devices setting" I see the green bars go up when testing. 
  
 But no audio is coming out via the 3.5 mm.
  
 I have tried all different setting on the unit.  Its on direct mode, standard fiter, normal power amplifier mode etc. But no sound.
  
 Am I supposed to connect something else to the pc in addtion to the blue cable usb3 cable ?
  
 Frustrated since I tried this on three computers now. 
  
 thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## 227qed

oncdoc said:


> Can someone help me to get the imicro idsd black to play audio. I charged it overnight.
> 
> Im connecting it directly via the usb3 cable supplied to the pc (tried this on three pc's) with windows 10.
> I have the ifi driver installed. the computer recognized it. In fact, when I go to "playback devices setting" I see the green bars go up when testing.
> ...




3.5 mm is an input jack. You'll need to use the 6.3 mm jack with an adapter for 3.5 mm output. Enjoy!


----------



## oncdoc

Silly me, Thank you friend.


----------



## Beolab

technobear said:


> Direct Mode - 2V fixed output (in Eco mode), no XBASS, no 3D, no volume control
> 
> Preamp Mode - variable output according to volume control, XBASS, 3D for Speakers
> 
> ...




Wounder what differ in sound if you use XBass throug RCA vs stereo jack , how big diffrent could it be.


----------



## Bykhoff

Is there any loss of clarity and detail of a recording when the 3D Holographic Sound switch is engaged?


----------



## Beolab

bykhoff said:


> Is there any loss of clarity and detail of a recording when the 3D Holographic Sound switch is engaged?




According to Ifi = No 
It is because the circuit is working in the analog, not the in the digital domain.


----------



## Bykhoff

beolab said:


> According to Ifi = No
> It is because the circuit is working in the analog, not the in the digital domain.


 
  
  
 Right. I know that that's what ifi says. One thing I've noticed is that with older recordings, when you turn 3D on, the hissing is louder and more pronounced. Overall, it does add more liveliness to the sound but I was just curious about whether any of the audio experts here feel that the 3D effect distorts the sound in any way.
  
 Thanks for your input.


----------



## Beolab

bykhoff said:


> Right. I know that that's what ifi says. One thing I've noticed is that with older recordings, when you turn 3D on, the hissing is louder and more pronounced. Overall, it does add more liveliness to the sound but I was just curious about whether any of the audio experts here feel that the 3D effect distorts the sound in any way.
> 
> Thanks for your input.




I had the iTube for few month a wile ago connected between my dac and my active speakers, and when i selected the 3D on the iTube, the soundstadge got wider, but lost the instrumental / voice position and it sounded artificial, sounded as surround sound almost, but on the iCan Pro i think iFi have dun a better jobb with the 3D, but you still miss out on information in the middle of the soundstadge where the singer ls voice and all the rest should stand normally. 

I also conected it to my headphone gear, and it sounded the same a lot artificial, but the XBass+ is another cup of tea, i realy like it, and does not sound artificial at all to my ears. 

Very nicely dun!


----------



## iFi audio

beolab said:


> I had the iTube for few month a wile ago connected between my dac and my active speakers, and when i selected the 3D on the iTube, the soundstadge got wider, but lost the instrumental / voice position and it sounded artificial, sounded as surround sound almost, but on the iCan Pro i think iFi have dun a better jobb with the 3D, but you still miss out on information in the middle of the soundstadge where the singer ls voice and all the rest should stand normally.
> 
> I also conected it to my headphone gear, and it sounded the same a lot artificial, but the XBass+ is another cup of tea, i realy like it, and does not sound artificial at all to my ears.
> 
> Very nicely dun!


 
  
 Thanks! We do our best to make things better from one model to another.


----------



## Bykhoff

ifi audio said:


> Thanks! We do our best to make things better from one model to another.


 
  
 Why is it that when I listen to older recordings and turn on the 3D switch, I get a livelier sound but also the hissing sound is more pronounced and audible?


----------



## Bykhoff

Why is it that when I listen to older recordings and turn on the 3D switch, I get a livelier sound but also the hissing sound is more pronounced and audible?


----------



## DarktoreS




----------



## iFi audio

bykhoff said:


> Why is it that when I listen to older recordings and turn on the 3D switch, I get a livelier sound but also the hissing sound is more pronounced and audible?


 
  
 Please drop us a message via our STS sytem. There are lots of variables; your setup, music etc. Our proprietary 3D tech was designed to work with every rig out there, yet since these vary from one user to another, the outcome might be different too. What we're saying is that we need to know more.


----------



## iFi audio

darktores said:


>


 
  
 Ah, lovely shots!


----------



## Bykhoff

ifi audio said:


> Please drop us a message via our STS sytem. There are lots of variables; your setup, music etc. Our proprietary 3D tech was designed to work with every rig out there, yet since these vary from one user to another, the outcome might be different too. What I'm saying is that we need to know more.




It's the music. Older recordings have analog hissing sounds. The louder the volume, the more one can hear it. I just noticed that the hiss (in records with audible hiss present) gets louder when 3d is on, all other variables remaining the same. 

I assume hiss is in the upper frequencies, and that therefore this means that 3D effect is essentially an increase of volume in those frequencies. Anyhow, I just want to understand what 3d really does to the signal. 

The OCD part of me wants to know if I'm giving up clarity and fidelity and purity for the more fun sound experience that the 3D Holographic Sound effect provides. Yes, I know it works at the analog level.

My setup is Hifiman 400i and the if I micro idsd connected via USB-3 cable to my Macbook, which is running audirvana and I'm listening to flac files.


----------



## canali

just hooked up the ifi micro to my audioengine a5+ speakers
 ...nothing like some live music for a change...
 that 3D button really does expand the sound


----------



## gixxerwimp

ifi audio said:


> *Latest U**nified **Firmware **v5.1 **‘Gelato’ (for Stereo 50 /micro iDSD / micro iDAC2 / nano iDSD)*
> The very latest in-house firmware version 5.1 for *ALL* iFi products is available:
> 
> All-new XMOS ‘deep-core processes’ software *for different behaviour of SPDIF (after XMOS previously modified the USB section).*
> ...


 
  
 Can you please explain the part highlighted in *red*? Is this a change in SPDIF function or an improvement in SPDIF performance? Thanks!
  
 [I know this is kind of late. I'm going to try the SPDIF input and saw this update in the firmware]


----------



## kaushama

Got my IDSD BL. What I can say is WOW!!! My IDSD Silver goes for sale soon.
Next component is due for upgrade by IFI is Itube? Will we get a black version?


----------



## gr8soundz

kaushama said:


> Got my IDSD BL. What I can say is WOW!!! My IDSD Silver goes for sale soon.
> Next component is due for upgrade by IFI is Itube? Will we get a black version?


 
  
 Not black but space gray:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/828965/ifi-audio-micro-itube2-buffer


----------



## monumonu

Hi,
  
 Just got my iDSD micro BL today, few words...
  
 Oh oh...
 Just out of the box, compared to the original iDSD micro, you can ear the differences...
  
 My settings: Turbo mode, Standard filter, IEMatch off.
 Paired with a 1770 Pro, plugged in a Macbook Pro with DeLOCK Premium usb cable and Audirvana player, without any Bass or 3D effect, it sounds clearly different compared to its old brother, in a very positive way.
  
 First album, Joshua Redman, Trios Live, 24-88.2kHz, very natural, sharper than I use to ear, but full of life, dynamic, clarity. Each instrument is presented in a realistic way, so you can chose which one you want to listen more (if you want).
 Compared to the original iDSD micro, it seems easier to feel the room, the audience and the musicians.
  
 JS Bach, Starker, Cello Suites, DSD128 180g vinyl ripped, wonderful ! I easily feel the bow on the strings, more than before (thanks to a bit more extended highs), noises in background during recording still the same, specially the very low frequencies we can ear sometime from outside the studio. The way Starker plays these pieces is absolutely amazing, and the Black Label really helps to feel that.
  
 Soundrama, The Pulse, 16 44.1kHz, sounds of nature and more, recorded at the same level. You are in, no more no less, beautiful sounds everywhere, the music box, the river, birds, a gong, big japanese drums, fireworks, cars, planes... It's real.
  
 The most difference between these two iDSD is the medium presentation I think. I used to have more low medium with the original, and a little bit more bass. But after few minutes listening the Black Label, if I swap to the other one, I still prefer the BL. It's like I feel less air in the music with the original, and a bit less details as well. By the way bass still the same or close, may be a bit more articulate with the BL, and highs are more refined.
  
 Well done ifi team, let's keep this new little black box at home and listen more music for christmas 
  
 Cheers everyone, and viva la musica !


----------



## canali

update to last post after more listening:
  
 for IFi....has the* 3D* affect been tweaked at all in the new micro edition?
 while i love the space/expansiveness that this cool feature adds, it can sometimes also make the music sound a bit tinny,
 or seem to emphasize/expand the upper treble ranges more.
 (at least that is how it sounds to me).
 cool feature in general, however....fiddling around with it on my audioengine a5+ speakers.


----------



## iFi audio

beolab said:


> I read that the Xbass+ are not sounding the same through the RCA, because it is meant for amps and speakers, so it is tuned diffrently.
> My plan is to connect the iDSD B L to a separat amp that i drive my headphones with the Xbass+ engaged, do you have any experience of this?


 
  
 Now you've stirred the pot! OK then, here it goes:
  
*iFi Audio 3D-Matrix - Part 1/2*  
 If using the line-out mode, the RCA output is fixed level and neither volume control, 3D-Matrix and X-Bass have any effect on the signal. If using the preamp-out mode the RCA output gets the signal after the volume control and 3D-Matrix/X-Bass section so these will be active on the output. X-Bass is the same on both headphone- and preamp-out.
  

  





 However, 3D-Matrix is a different topic. First it needs to be understood what this atypical iFi Audio technology is about (hint: it is ASP based upon Alan Blumlein’s work, not a DSP). Microphones are not ears, whereas speakers + rooms and/or headphones are not really just microphones in reverse. As early as the 1930's, the inventor of modern stereo recording/playback systems - Alan Dower Blumlein - realised that microphone based stereo audio recordings distorted the 3D perspective in comparison to the real thing listening.
  
  

  




 He devised a compensator (known as shuffler) for the speaker side of things and also did some work at the headphones end. Said compensation technology was implemented later by EMI as "Stereosonic" process and applied to early stereo recordings (including some by The Beatles). The headphone compensator never was completed. At later time, inventors such as Bauer presented their takes.




 In the end, both Blumlein/Stereosonic shuffling and the Bauer/Linkwitz/Meier cross-feed systems remain worthwhile. But attempts to correct a fundamental dichotomy or flaw in modern stereo recordings were unsuccessful.
  
 What the iFi 3D-Matrix has to offer is an improvement over the previous corrective systems and we feel we have achieved this. And while there are of course parallels and overlap with classic Blumlein shuffling and Bauer crossfeed, the iFi' 3D-Matrix goes well beyond.
  
 More to come...


----------



## Beolab

Thanks a lot for the clarification! 

That is a pity that you can not engage Xbass+ in line fixed level. ;( 

Is there just a ON/OFF setting for the XBass+ or is there a off / medium and high setting for it?


----------



## gr8soundz

beolab said:


> Thanks a lot for the clarification!
> 
> That is a pity that you can not engage Xbass+ in line fixed level. ;(
> 
> *Is there just a ON/OFF setting for the XBass+ or is there a off / medium and high setting for it?*


 
  
 Not on the iDSD (just on/off). Only their iCan and iTube2 have 3-way Xbass switches.
  
 IFi stated previously there wasn't enough room inside the feature-packed iDSD for 3 settings. My guess is they also don't want to cannibalize sales of the amp only iCan.


----------



## Beolab

Thanks! Will receive the B L tomorrow wendsday, and will be fun to see how it compares to my Mojo and DAVE , i do lile the 10hz and 30hz XBass+ setting alot when i tested the iCan Pro with the Focal Utopia last week.


----------



## Beolab

Received the Ifi B L today, and all i can say is wow! Can highly recomend it! 

Very fun to listen to, and got a great magic synergi and grip on my Abyss Headphones , and the low end is remarkable ! 

The Mojo and the DAVE got a diffrent presentation, but this is more fun and more versatile for all kinds of different music. 

Do not even play it on the Turbo mode, just the middle setting. 



Highly recommend this small powerhouse!

Some say the musicality is better on Mojo and i hear what you are meaning , so i connected my mojo to Ifi with the thinn analog cable and then to my Moon 600i amp. 



So now i can get benefit of the Xbass+ setting  , but i am losing some transparancy because of the analog cable in between Mojo and ifi ..


----------



## iFi audio

*Buying some vinyl for the micro iDSD BL (and its other siblings)*
  
  
 On a side note, for those of you who're into black stuff... We took the liberty to find ourselves some nice LPs in Greece, somewhere between exhibition days. There is ALWAYS a good time to get these. Why? There are many reasons. But the fact that we simply love the sound of a fine vinyl record is more than enough! And we compare all our digital equipment in R&D to our in-house vinyl setups. This is what we benchmark our digital reference gear to. As such, we do not expect iFi DACs to sound like other DACs!
  
 So here's what we've found...  
  
  


> > The Dave Brubeck Trio Featuring Gerry Mulligan Blues Roots
> > *Label : Pure Pleasure - Re-mastering by Ray Staff at Air Mastering!*
> >
> >
> > ...


----------



## 227qed

Hey ifi...does the idsd do a relatively good job (compared to other dacs) of processing a heavily eq'd signal so there is no loss in quality of unmodified frequencies? 

I like to crank up the 31 hz to the max but don't like when it veils the mids. This is a huge problem when I use my phone as a source obviously, but I'm wondering if a good dac like the idsd will solve this problem completely. My schiit modi 2 uber does better than my phone with this obviously, but I do think it's currently the weakest link in my chain (going to a micro ican) and am hoping to improve on this soon. I have no experience with higher end dacs and want to be sold on one. 

Thanks!


----------



## matbhuvi

Is the 2V / 5.5V / 10V amp out is vrms or peak-peak? I am feeding the output to my car audio aux input which has 2Vrms sensitivity. Wondering what is the safest mode to use.


----------



## iFi audio

227qed said:


> Hey ifi...does the idsd do a relatively good job (compared to other dacs) of processing a heavily eq'd signal so there is no loss in quality of unmodified frequencies?
> 
> I like to crank up the 31 hz to the max but don't like when it veils the mids. This is a huge problem when I use my phone as a source obviously, but I'm wondering if a good dac like the idsd will solve this problem completely. My schiit modi 2 uber does better than my phone with this obviously, but I do think it's currently the weakest link in my chain (going to a micro ican) and am hoping to improve on this soon. I have no experience with higher end dacs and want to be sold on one.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Please take a look at what's written in here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd
  
 At least several out of 20+ reviews visible there should answer your question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 And that's the short and sweet talk, now onto tech details we go.
  
 In order to answer this solidly, one must understand how DSP based EQ works. 
  
 In most modern recordings, peaks are pushed all the way to 0dBFS. This means that there's absolutely NO HEADROOM and literally any signal that is boosted past 0dBFS will be clipping. And clipped audio sounds seriously messed up across the whole audio range.
  
 Using EQ to boost a given frequency in any domain means that there either must be available headroom or the signal at this frequency has to have much lower level than the clipping point (to be precise at least as much lower as the boost) or the signal will be clipped.
  
 For the digital EQ in your phone (or any similar such device) it means that if you set the 31Hz to maximum (which is 12dB boost), you must lower the EQ gain control by the same 12dB, or bass-heavy music will clip. No DAC can help recover a digitally clipped signal, no matter what you do.
  
 Presuming you have not lowered the gain of your EQ in line with the boost, the problems you are hearing is just the severe clipping distortion from the clipped bass notes bleeding all over the audio range.
  
 If you lower the EQ gain control, you will still get negative effects, precisely the same ones introduced by digital domain volume controls, namely you loose bits. In case of your 12dB attenuation (to allow 12dB boost at 31Hz) you will loose two more bits than you would without the EQ engaged for most of the music (except 31Hz).
  
 This is a scenario where a better DAC with more bits and real resolution can help. As it resolves very low levels better (and we just made everything 2-Bit below 0dBFS), it will preserve more of music's resolution. 
  
 It's also factual that resources needed to process audio EQ are inverse with the frequency. This means that the lower the frequency processed, the higher the resource usage. Often DSP routines are written in ways that limit resource usage if very low frequencies are processed. This cause extra distortion, which bleed all over the audio range.
  
 So here is the fundamental upshot. 
  
 The DSP based EQ in your phone or music playback software is the worst place to apply EQ that significantly (> 3dB) boosts any frequency. Where the DSP EQ has its place (and for this it should be multi-band parametric, not a graphic EQ)  is where we need to perform precise cuts in narrow frequency bands, to equalise the midrange/treble of headphones and IEM's to personal taste and to match our personal ear canal frequency response.
  
 Any large boost should be confined into the analogue domain, past a volume control and backed with enough headroom in the amplifier to allow said boost to pass without clipping.
  
 This is precisely why iFi have placed X-Bass in the analogue domain, implemented as ASP (Analogue Signal Processing) and why it is backed with an amp that seems ridiculously powerful. 
  
 However as there is over 10dB boost at the extreme low frequencies, 10 times the power is required to allow such low bass notes to pass without clipping in comparison to the bass-boost off and with the same volume control setting.
  
 Hence, if you want a lot of bass-boost, you should get a DAC/Amp or a headphone amp that incorporates this kind of boost in the analogue domain.


----------



## technobear

matbhuvi said:


> Is the 2V / 5.5V / 10V amp out is vrms or peak-peak? I am feeding the output to my car audio aux input which has 2Vrms sensitivity. Wondering what is the safest mode to use.




Eco mode.


----------



## technobear

227qed said:


> Hey ifi...does the idsd do a relatively good job (compared to other dacs) of processing a heavily eq'd signal so there is no loss in quality of unmodified frequencies?
> 
> I like to crank up the 31 hz to the max but don't like when it veils the mids. This is a huge problem when I use my phone as a source obviously, but I'm wondering if a good dac like the idsd will solve this problem completely. My schiit modi 2 uber does better than my phone with this obviously, but I do think it's currently the weakest link in my chain (going to a micro ican) and am hoping to improve on this soon. I have no experience with higher end dacs and want to be sold on one.
> 
> Thanks!




There is no DAC in existence that can fix heavy handed use of DSP EQ.

Perhaps you need some headphones that reproduce sub-bass?

Of course, with the iFi stuff you can engage XBASS and turn off your DSP EQ. Much better idea.


----------



## James Shoegazer

My iDsd micro is currently paired with iCan SE...
 just out of curiosity, is it normally switched to Preamp or Direct? What's the difference?
 With Direct I hear more noise, and I lose volume control on the iDSD. Pls mind my lack of knowledge


----------



## iFi audio

james shoegazer said:


> My iDsd micro is currently paired with iCan SE...
> just out of curiosity, is it normally switched to Preamp or Direct? What's the difference?
> With Direct I hear more noise, and I lose volume control on the iDSD. Pls mind my lack of knowledge


 
  
 It works as intended. Direct mode means that iDSD Micro volume control is bypassed, therefore the audio path gets shorter, which is better. It's for the best to use iCAN SE volume control in your case. The point is that you have two vol. pots in your audio chain. But you need only one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 That was the short version.
  
 The reason why you hear "more noise" in direct mode is because you have the iDSD volume engaged and set to a low level (e.g. around 12 o'clock). Then the headphone amplifier volume control will be set fairly high giving the headphone amplifier more (and unnecessary) gain.
  
 The "direct" setting means the signal is taken directly after the DAC and it's analogue stage. It means that the RCA output on the iDSD micro behaves like any other DAC's line out. Therefore it's fixed level, has no volume control and naturally no X-Bass/3D-Sound tech as these are embedded in the preamp stage.
  
 In preamp mode, the signal is taken after the voltage amplification stage of the headphone amp. This means that the RCA output on the iDSD micro behaves like a DAC plus preamplifier, so the output level is adjusted with the volume control. In this case, our proprietary X-Bass & 3D-Sound tech is available for speakers, yet not for headphones.
  
 In your situation, as your headphone amplifier has a volume control, a better preamp stage and more flexible 3D-Sound and X-Bass, the best choice is to set your iDSD Micro in direct mode and to use the volume control on your headphone amplifier as the sole volume control. Then please set the gain of your headphone amplifier as low as possible while getting a volume control setting of around 12 O'clock for normal (not VERY loud) listening levels.


----------



## iFi audio

*iDSD BL is #1 in Japan*  
*Santa couldn’t deliver a nicer present to iFi HQ*
  
  

  
 Southport, UK – 23rd December 2016
  
  
*Uncork the Johnnie Walker Black Label!*
  
  
 Breaking 'Black Label' news from iFi Audio HQ!  iFi Audio is proud to announce that the micro iDSD Black Label is the number 1 seller in Japan this Christmas! Yes, that's right  - No. 1! 
  
  
 Check it out here: http://kakaku.com/kaden/headphone-amp/ranking_2073/spec=101-2/
  
  
  
 The micro iDSD Black Label proves that black is indeed beautiful when it comes to headphone amplifiers. The new black/burnt orange colour scheme in combo with its awesome design features are a force to be reckoned with across the globe.


----------



## canali

ifi audio said:


> It works as intended. Direct mode means that iDSD Micro volume control is bypassed, therefore the audio path gets shorter, which is better. It's for the best to use iCAN SE volume control in your case. The point is that you have two vol. pots in your audio chain. But you need only one


 
 but in direct mode (say if using with powered desktop monitors with their own volume contol) we can't
 use the xbass or 3d functions from my experience so far.
 no way to get around that?
 (love the 3D, despite sounding 'tinny' at times...ultra cool feature)


----------



## iFi audio

canali said:


> but in direct mode (say if using with powered desktop monitors with their own volume contol) we can't
> use the xbass or 3d functions from my experience so far.
> no way to get around that?
> (love the 3D, despite sounding 'tinny' at times...ultra cool feature)


 
  
 Nope and there's a reason for that. We've covered some of our tech behind 3D and Xbass in the link below, this is helpful to understand what we've done: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/7200#post_13104359
  
 Nonetheless, it's cool that you like our 3D tech!


----------



## canali

Thanks I will probably keep the original as a preamp DAC for my powered desktop monitors, instead of upgrading...But who knows still might change my mind.


----------



## marcus1

At the moment I'm using my idsd micro (silver) mainly as the DAC in my home stereo system in direct mode. If I was to use the BL in the same role, do you think there is a significant improvement to be made (in SQ) compared to my micro?
Or what about the iDAC2 - is this basically the same DAC as whats in my current idsd micro?
Thanks.


----------



## James Shoegazer

Anyone knows how I can replace the little black rubber switch on the idsd? 
I have one of them loose and it went missing.
Annoying to use nails to flip switches lol


----------



## technobear

marcus1 said:


> At the moment I'm using my idsd micro (silver) mainly as the DAC in my home stereo system in direct mode. If I was to use the BL in the same role, do you think there is a significant improvement to be made (in SQ) compared to my micro?
> Or what about the iDAC2 - is this basically the same DAC as whats in my current idsd micro?
> Thanks.




Impressions begin about here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-black-label-tour-details-page-147-release-info-page-153/2340

iDAC2 is here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/754820/idac2-calling-5-head-fiers-a-litte-surprise-page-37


----------



## technobear

james shoegazer said:


> Anyone knows how I can replace the little black rubber switch on the idsd?
> I have one of them loose and it went missing.
> Annoying to use nails to flip switches lol




http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## iFi audio

'Nuff said!


----------



## 227qed

technobear said:


> There is no DAC in existence that can fix heavy handed use of DSP EQ.
> 
> Perhaps you need some headphones that reproduce sub-bass?
> 
> Of course, with the iFi stuff you can engage XBASS and turn off your DSP EQ. Much better idea.




Well that's a bunmer! Haha. My eq is a bit more mild than others I've seen, but something like +12 db at 31 Hz ruins certain tracks and I don't want to change my eq every other song. 

Actually turning the xbass off bandaids that problem a bit, but I know I'd obviously get better sound leaving the DSP alone and letting the ican do its ASP thang for added bass. 

I'm using THX00 now and they are no slouch with bass. With EQ and XBass they slam really good. Without EQ and xbass on they are just shy of where I need them to be...but since this is my most refined sound to date however, i am starting to appreciate the other frequencies, especially mids, much more. 

I'm eventually going to get a th900 for my subbass endgame, but til then i guess my best bet is to eq the bass down to half what it is now. 

These things aside, it's remarkable how much less the sound is destroyed using my schiit dac vs my phone. Hoping a better dac like the idsd can handle eq even better, but I guess my best bet is to not be such a basshead haha. Thanks!


----------



## Triplefun

Have you tried daphile (www.daphile.com) with native DSD upsampling. DSD seems to do wonders to the bass. Note daphile can be initially trialed from a USB stick. If you don't use dsd, Daphile also supports Sox upsampling, fir DRC and the inclusion of an eq. Also make sure you use the latest beta http://www.daphile.com/firmware/private-beta/


----------



## canali

back to trialing tidal hi fi and roon labs.
 at least thru roon labs when streaming hifi i can use
 the '3 D' effects...but it definitely does add to some static sound on some songs.
 turn it off and it's gone.
  
 but when using  tidal only and not roon labs the 3D doesn't work.
  
 ...i know iFi says to use 'direct' mode
 but i just love how that gizmo expands the soundstage.
  
 anyone else also using it this way?


----------



## iFi audio

That whiskey material we wrote a while ago? Since technically it's still Xmas, here goes its second bit.
  
  
*Part 2: Raise your glasses!*
  
  
  
*Glass*
  
 Every whisky drinker will tell you to get the Glencairn glass, which is especially designed for whisky tasting. It just hits the right parts of one’s taste buds. Much like a wine glass is designed to savor wine..
  
 Yes, the Glencairn glass is nice, but for a casual whisky drinker there is really no need to spend $8 for such an item where a normal wine/water glass will do the job.
  

  
  
 The tip is to have a glass with both a large bottom and a narrow opening on top. Such shape is the reason why all the nice whisky aroma is kept inside the glass and will be channeled and concentrated towards your nostrils.  
  

  
  
  
*Ice*
  
 Many gourmets will add ice to whisky. But rather than enhancing flavors, ice inhibits a drink’s taste. To put it shortly, it’ll turn dull and flat. The aromas and taste will only start to open up and reveal their full characteristics once the whisky starts to warm up to room temperature. So we don’t recommend to serve this kind of a beverage cold like a beer!
  
 Yet once ice is added to a low quality whisky, it’ll calm the burn of cheap alcohol feeling. Therefore it can be done, but only for low quality whisky, of £10 asking or even less. Such as this Tesco Reserve…. Enjoy…
  

  
 An opposite analogy is with Japanese Sake, to drink it cold is to drink it right. Never taste the Sake hot unless the it’s of questionable quality or you are freezing and need a hot drink.
  
  
  
*Water*
  
 The normal rule of thumb is as follows: don’t add water to whisky unless you are drinking cask strength whisky.  This means the alcohol level of 50% or more. In this case, the alcohol percentage and burning sensation in your mouth (which unavoidably follows) can overpower even the most prominent flavours.
  
 Most whisky sold (40-46% ABV) is not cask strength and already diluted with water, so you don’t want to add any amount of H2O again.  But sometimes two or three drops of water can release further flavours and complexity and that’s exactly what you want. But to try it is to know.
  
 If adding water, use a straw. Dip it in a glass of water, then seal its top with your finger. Next transfer the water in the straw to your glass with whisky and release. Do it a few drops every time. Small steps are advised in order to avoid watering down too much.
  
 Yes, we are talking pipette levels of water drops.
  
 We read that Morrison Bowmore Distillers grasped the thorny topic and discovered that a little drop of water changed the look, the taste and the smell of the whisky.
  
  
  
*Whisky Books*
  
 Last but not least, for those of you who wish to explore further, here are a few whisky connoisseur books from one of our preferred retailers. Yes, the one from whom we get the ‘occasional’ tipple.
  
https://www.masterofmalt.com/books/
  
 They really know their whisky as just like good music, we are always on the lookout for new beverages to try!
  
 This book, ‘101 Whiskies to Try Before you Die’ is one of our favourites. Nicely penned and very informative!
  

  
  
 It is Christmas so we wish everyone a Merry Xmas and a happy new year. Drink in moderation (at least try!) and don’t drive! Get a taxi!


----------



## Deftone

Switching between mojo and idsd I notice idsd has like a reverb effect, I wonder what it is. No enhancements turned on like bass boost or 3d.


----------



## technobear

deftone said:


> Switching between mojo and idsd I notice idsd has like a reverb effect, I wonder what it is. No enhancements turned on like bass boost or 3d.




The pleasures of using a bit-perfect (non-upsampling) DAC


----------



## Deftone

technobear said:


> The pleasures of using a bit-perfect (non-upsampling) DAC




I don't like reverb on everything how do I disable it? also I always use bit perfect to DACs and haven't heard this before.


----------



## canali

ifi audio said:


> That whiskey material we wrote a while ago? Since technically it's still Xmas, here goes its second bit.
> 
> 
> *Part 2: Raise your glasses!*


 
  
 yes i'd like to chime in on this for wine/beer drinkers  (having served in fine dining establishments yrs ago)
  
*wine:* unless you have a wine cellar, or it's stored well in low 60s temp, then always chill your *red* in the fridge for 15-20 min
 ...many homes are not the low 60's temps that wine cellars are
 ...instead most places we store our wine are too warm.
 -likewise for *whites, *sometimes our fridges are_ too _cold...so let it sit on the counter for 10-15min if taking out of a cold fridge...the flavours will open up more.
  
*beer: *reject those frosted glasses you still might get with beer...they dilute the taste of good beer, make it too cold, then adds water when  melting
 ....same principles noted by iFi on whiskey apply to enjoying good quality beer when it comes to ice/cold.
 that is why in most quality micro breweries and/or in europe you'll never get frosted glasses...we're so luck that our access to quality brew has risen and
 we no longer have to settle for the big breweries and their 'piss in a bottle' blandness.
  
 happy holidaze


----------



## technobear

deftone said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > The pleasures of using a bit-perfect (non-upsampling) DAC
> ...




You misunderstand me. You are hearing it because it is in the recording you are listening to. The reason you are hearing it now is because your transients are no longer being smeared by pre-ringing and post-ringing so you can hear the recording clearly.


----------



## Deftone

technobear said:


> You misunderstand me. You are hearing it because it is in the recording you are listening to. The reason you are hearing it now is because your transients are no longer being smeared by pre-ringing and post-ringing so you can hear the recording clearly.



I understand what your saying but this isn't subtle reverb like I hear on mojo and other quality DACs, this is very pronounced and causes even sound effects in Windows on notifications for example to echo when it's not supposed to or on "fake" electronic samples of music that doesn't have it naturally.


----------



## iFi audio

matbhuvi said:


> Is the 2V / 5.5V / 10V amp out is vrms or peak-peak? I am feeding the output to my car audio aux input which has 2Vrms sensitivity. Wondering what is the safest mode to use.


 
  
 It is RMS and applies to the headphone output.
  
 For your connection, simply make sure to use the RCA outputs and set the device in "direct mode" (switch at the bottom, near the RCA connectors).
  
 In this case your iDSD micro outputs a fixed level 2V RMS signal, with the volume control etc., handled by your car hifi.


----------



## iFi audio

canali said:


> yes i'd like to chime in on this for wine/beer drinkers  (having served in fine dining establishments yrs ago)
> 
> wine: unless you have a wine cellar, or it's stored well in low 60s temp, then always chill your red in the fridge for 15-20 min
> ...many homes are not the low 60's temps that wine cellars are
> ...


 
  
 Our man! Cheers!


----------



## canali

ifi audio said:


> Our man! Cheers!


 
 -likewise for *whites,* sometimes our fridges are _too_ cold...so let it sit on the counter for 10-15min if taking out of a very cold fridge...the flavours will open up more.
  
 some help:http://www.skybarhome.com/about-wine/wine-serving-temperatures/wine-serving-temperatures.html
  
*Wine Serving Temperatures* To properly highlight a wine varietal's unique bouquet, character and flavor profile, it is essential to serve each wine type at its ideal serving temperature.

 *White Wines: Serve between 45°F and 50°F, depending on the varietal.* 
When white wines are served too cold, their flavors and aromas are masked, making the wine seem 'simple.' (Note: At 35°F, your refrigerator is too cold to use as the chiller for white wines.)
When white wines are served too warm, they lose their structure and become flat.



*Red Wines: Serve between 50°F and 65°F, depending on the varietal.* 
Serving red wines too cold will mute their aromas and flavors, making them taste excessively tannic and acidic.
When served too warm, red wines will taste overly alcoholic, flat and lifeless.



Cellar Temperatures: The proper storage temperature for all wines, white and red, is 55°F. For more on wine storage, visit Proper Wine Storage.



Sauvignon Blanc45°F/7°CPinot Grigio45°F/7°CChardonnay50°F/10°CWhite Zinfandel50°F/10°CPinot Noir50°F/10°C to 55°F/13°CMerlot55°F/13°C to 60°F/15°CRed Zinfandel65°F/18°CShiraz65°F/18°C Cabernet Sauvignon65°F/18°C 
  
 luckily we live in the fab age of the internet where so much good and free information exists.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
*Beer:*
  
 https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/proper-beer-serving-temperatures/
  
 
*Beer **Suggested Temperature*American Mainstream Light Lagers33° – 40° FPale Lagers, Pilsners38° – 45° FCream & Blonde Ales40° – 45° FNitro Stouts40° – 45° FBelgian Pale Ales, Abbey Tripels40° – 45° FWheat Beers40° – 50° FLambics40° – 50° FDark Lagers45° – 50° FAmerican Pale Ales & IPAs45° – 50° FStouts, Porters45° – 55° FStrong Lagers50° – 55° FReal & Cask Ales50° – 55° FBelgian Dubbels50° – 55° F
 Data from _Tasting Beer_ by Randy Mosher. 
 *General Serving Temperature Rules:*


All beers should be served between 38-55° F.
Lagers are served colder than ales.
Stronger beers are served warmer than weaker beers.
Darker beers are served warmer than lighter beers.
Macro lagers are served as cold as the Rockies.
Serve beers a few degrees colder than the target temperature, to accommodate for warming from the glass and the drinker’s hands.


----------



## technobear

deftone said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > You misunderstand me. You are hearing it because it is in the recording you are listening to. The reason you are hearing it now is because your transients are no longer being smeared by pre-ringing and post-ringing so you can hear the recording clearly.
> ...




That doesn't sound like it can be the DAC at all then. I own two iDSD's and neither of them add reverb.


----------



## Beolab

Would just like to buy the Xbass+ in three steps like a small rca - rca adapter if it would be possible to make ?

Yes, this sounded as a stupid question, but actually it is not, i meant you could make a small box rca-rca adapter with the XBass+ circuit inside for the signal to pass through. 

Or that you do a SW or HW upgrade on iDSD B L , so you can use Xbass+ in Direct mode, because you are loosing to much transparany when you are going activating Volume unfortenatly , if you got the ifi idsd connected to external amp. 

I have my Ifi iDSD B L connected to a Moon 600i EVO amp and i do not want the vol to be activated on the iDSD BL but i like the Xbass+ . 

Best Regards

Fredrik


----------



## iFi audio

deftone said:


> Switching between mojo and idsd I notice idsd has like a reverb effect, I wonder what it is. No enhancements turned on like bass boost or 3d.


 
  
 We would not presume to know what you are hearing exactly, but here are some technical basics...
  
 No iFi product includes anything like an intentional reverb effect. The only thing that acts in a matter parallel to a reverb are the digital filters, which are standard on almost all DAC's and which in most iFi products are selectable. The iDSD micro also includes the bit-perfect mode which shuts down digital filters.
  
  
*TL;DR *
  
 Digital filters trade off flat frequency response to the nyquist frequency of the recording for transient distortion. The "longer" a filter (the more so-called taps it has) is the greater the impulse/transient distortion. In the iDSD micro the standard filter is the "longest" whereas the bit-perfect mode is the "shortest".
  
 Audibility of different digital filters is a very steamy topic, some people are very sensitive to these and others are not. For those in the former group, we've included the option to select a filter that suits their personal taste and preference.
  
  
*The long version*
  
 The "standard" digital filter is a sharp roll-off FIR type. This one is made by creating a delay chain with "taps" at each 1 sample delay and then applying different "gain" to the signal at each tap. The result of each tap is summed together to create a new signal that has "unwanted" ultrasonic content removed. More on FIR digital filters may be read here:
  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_impulse_response
  
 The upshot is that a digital filter (be it FIR or IIR) actually introduces a form of reverb. The more taps a digital filter has, the longer the reverb. The "standard" filter in the iDSD micro has around 256 taps (which is industry standard) and it's complete "reverb window" covers a time window of around 0.7 milliseconds at 44.1kHz source material. 
  
 Human hearing acuity allows the detection of transient acoustic events of 0.01 milliseconds (10 uS) in length while the detection of a tone burst will require around 2 milliseconds at least. 
  
 This means that the standard digital filter is likely to be at the edge of audibility for transient events (e.g. a snare drum rim shot) but should be inaudible on tone bursts (e.g. a piano note). More on the temporal resolution of the human hearing is to be found here:
  

http://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/27662/what-is-the-human-ears-temporal-resolution
  
 Some people advocate digital filters with very large numbers of taps. For arguments sake, if we'd have used 16384 taps at 44.1kHz, the "reverb window" would cover 46.5 milliseconds, which one would expect to have a significantly audible effect on both transients and tone bursts.
  
 Using the "minimum" filter (actually a Bezier type) with only around 64 taps, it's complete "reverb window" covers a time window of around 0.17 milliseconds at 44.1kHz source material. This may still be audible on transients, but should be reliably inaudible on tone bursts.
  
 Finally the bit-perfect filter has just 1 tap, which translates to no delay chain and no "reverb". But the time domain resolution of 44.1kHz PCM recordings limit the impulse response to 0.0227 milliseconds. Said number is still not in a class that could be considered as reliably inaudible, which is one of the reasons why recordings with a sample rate higher than 44.1kHz are desirable.
  
 What the filter switch on the iDSD micro (and on other iFi products) offers to the customer is the ability to select her/his personal preference of the trade-offs involved.


----------



## iFi audio

deftone said:


> I understand what your saying but this isn't subtle reverb like I hear on mojo and other quality DACs, this is very pronounced and causes even sound effects in Windows on notifications for example to echo when it's not supposed to or on "fake" electronic samples of music that doesn't have it naturally.


 
  
 We advise to check your Windows audio device settings and make sure that "disable all enhancements" checkbox is selected. Normally this OS should not enable any of these by itself after installing a new sound device, but it can be funny at times.
  
 Also please check any enhancement/effect settings in your playback software, in case these got accidentally turned on.


----------



## iFi audio

beolab said:


> Would just like to buy the Xbass+ in three steps like a small rca - rca adapter if it would be possible to make ?
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Fredrik


 
  
 That would be the iTube micro MK2 when it ships. It is not possible to make a simple passive adapter.


----------



## Beolab

Thanks for your answer!

Yes i have looked into the new upcoming iTube micro Mk2
, but can you just activate the Xbass+ circuit without engage the volume control or the
GE tube on the iTube without any SNR loss?

Then i will order it straight away! wink.gif

Last question:
have you scheduled any SW/FW upgrade for the iDSD micro B L in near future?

Have a great evening!


----------



## gr8soundz

beolab said:


> Thanks for your answer!
> 
> Yes i have looked into the new upcoming iTube micro Mk2
> , but can you just activate the Xbass+ circuit without engage the volume control or the
> GE tube on the iTube without any SNR loss?


 
  
 Maybe I can help.
  
 I have the current iTube and the 3d works in both buffer (direct) and preamp modes. I use mine as a 0dB buffer to powered speakers so the volume is fixed (not variable) and the 3d still works. However, the iTube must be on since it unfortunately doesn't work passively.
  
 Don't see any reason why the iTube2 (which will have a 3-way Xbass switch) would change that. Its not available yet but started a thread for it here if you want more info:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/828965/ifi-audio-micro-itube2-buffer
  
 EDIT: I see you already posted on the thread.


----------



## GraveNoX

deftone said:


> Switching between mojo and idsd I notice idsd has like a reverb effect, I wonder what it is. No enhancements turned on like bass boost or 3d.


 
 I don't have micro but I have nano and mojo and experienced same thing, I noticed this straight away after upgrading to mojo, my explanation is that nano has very wet/lean sound and mojo has dry/fast, maybe too dry sound and too fast sound (the sounds stops very quickly, quicker than your mind can think of). You can think as micro having longer decays and mojo having none (which is true in my perception). The decays are filled with DETAILS.
 Imagine a 1 second sound split in 10 equal units. Nano has sound between 0.0 and 0.1, between 0.2 and 0.3, between 0.4 and 0.5, between 0.6 and 0.7, between 0.8 and 0.9. Mojo fills the gaps with more details and nano fills them with decays.
 Many said that micro has wet sound so it's not something new.
 In my perception, Micro was created for fun pleasure, it was not meant for accuracy or realism. That's why it has so many filters and bass boost and 3d and such things should not exist in a DAC. It's like using different EQ on different songs. "I don't like this song with bass boost, I don't want this song with 3D", if they included such things, it should work with every song.
 Micro makes sense in a stereo hi-fi setup, where you need to hear better the emotion in voice of the artist. Most Hi-fi speakers have built-in wet sound so having a wet DAC, can make them too lean, but for slow music like jazz and classical, I guess this is favorable. Hi-fi gear is for pleasure, that's what I'm saying. The opposite are the studio monitors which offers dry sound.


----------



## Deftone

ifi audio said:


> We advise to check your Windows audio device settings and make sure that "disable all enhancements" checkbox is selected. Normally this OS should not enable any of these by itself after installing a new sound device, but it can be funny at times.
> 
> Also please check any enhancement/effect settings in your playback software, in case these got accidentally turned on.




Thank you for the previous detailed explanation also everything was already set as it should be


----------



## Deftone

gravenox said:


> I don't have micro but I have nano and mojo and experienced same thing, I noticed this straight away after upgrading to mojo, my explanation is that nano has very wet/lean sound and mojo has dry/fast, maybe too dry sound and too fast sound (the sounds stops very quickly, quicker than your mind can think of). You can think as micro having longer decays and mojo having none (which is true in my perception). The decays are filled with DETAILS.
> Imagine a 1 second sound split in 10 equal units. Nano has sound between 0.0 and 0.1, between 0.2 and 0.3, between 0.4 and 0.5, between 0.6 and 0.7, between 0.8 and 0.9. Mojo fills the gaps with more details and nano fills them with decays.
> Many said that micro has wet sound so it's not something new.
> In my perception, Micro was created for fun pleasure, it was not meant for accuracy or realism. That's why it has so many filters and bass boost and 3d and such things should not exist in a DAC. It's like using different EQ on different songs. "I don't like this song with bass boost, I don't want this song with 3D", if they included such things, it should work with every song.
> Micro makes sense in a stereo hi-fi setup, where you need to hear better the emotion in voice of the artist. Most Hi-fi speakers have built-in wet sound so having a wet DAC, can make them too lean, but for slow music like jazz and classical, I guess this is favorable. Hi-fi gear is for pleasure, that's what I'm saying. The opposite are the studio monitors which offers dry sound.




After more listening I come to the conclusion 

iFi idsd black - brighter, slower, lots of reverb, detailed. Better for very slow female vocal music, jazz etc (not for me)

Chord mojo - flat, lightning fast, more detail, realism and timbre. (Definitely for me) I don't like the typical "audiophile" music I love hard hitting fast metal. 

Both units are very good


----------



## Joseph Lin

I am looking for a transport for iDSD BL. I can use my Fiio X7's LO as a transport to iDSD BL, but it is kind of a waste as X7 is expensive. In your opinion, what is the best budget, portable transport for iDSD BL?


----------



## ClieOS

joseph lin said:


> I am looking for a transport for iDSD BL. I can use my Fiio X7's LO as a transport to iDSD BL, but it is kind of a waste as X7 is expensive. In your opinion, what is the best budget, portable transport for iDSD BL?


 
  
 The best budget, portable transport is what you already have - the X7, as all you need is either (1) a cable that will take the coax-out from X7 to the S/PDIF-in of micro iDSD, or (2) a microUSB-to-USB-A-female (otherwise known as an OTG cable for smartphone) that will allow X7 to connect to the micro iDSD over USB using apps such as Onkyo HF Player or USB Audio Player Pro.


----------



## iFi audio

joseph lin said:


> In your opinion, what is the best budget, portable transport for iDSD BL?


 
  
 Any older iPhone or an aPhone (Android based phone) with suitable playback software. iPhone needs a genuine CCK (Apple Camera Connection Kit) to work, yet for aPhones any OTG cable will do the trick.
  
 Using Onkyo HF-Player (iPhone) or USB Audio Player Pro (aPhone) allows HD Audio playback up to and beyond 24 bit / 192 kHz and DSD if you are inclined.
  
 Any aPhone with a micro SD card slot of up to 128 GB capacity and has a lot of on-board memory is preferred over iPhone limited in this regard.
  
 Our 'Skin' is now packing an aPhone with 128GB internal memory and a 128G micro SD Card...


----------



## iFi audio

beolab said:


> Thanks for your answer!
> 
> Yes i have looked into the new upcoming iTube micro Mk2
> , but can you just activate the Xbass+ circuit without engage the volume control or the
> ...


 
  
 Let's move the iTube talk here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/828965/ifi-audio-micro-itube2-buffer
  
  


beolab said:


> have you scheduled any SW/FW upgrade for the iDSD micro B L in near future?


 
  
 We do not specifically schedule updates, but our software/firmware/drivers are under continuous development. 
  
 When this yields either functional or sonic improvements worthwhile testing effort before a public release - then we test, bug-fix if needed and eventually release.
  
 Right now nothing is on, but it may change.


----------



## LoryWiv

ifi audio said:


> Any older iPhone or an aPhone (Android based phone) with suitable playback software. iPhone needs a genuine CCK (Apple Camera Connection Kit) to work, yet for aPhones any OTG cable will do the trick.
> 
> Using Onkyo HF-Player (iPhone) or USB Audio Player Pro (aPhone) allows HD Audio playback up to and beyond 24 bit / 192 kHz and DSD if you are inclined.


 
  
 Would add Neutron Music Player to the list of 24/192 / DSD capable player software, I've used the others mentioned and always keep coming back to Neutron.


----------



## TjPhysicist

HI guys, 
 This is a "carry over" question from the th-x00 thread, as I originally assumed it was a headphones issue. A few hours of listening in with the idsd micro, and I'm suddenly noticing that everything sounds a bit "sibilant" or "hissy", like someone put some crinkly paper in my speaker system. (not always but it's not just "high pitches sounds wierd" or something it ruins the WHOLE song, if that makes sense). I switched USB ports on my macbook and it's a bit better now, but still there. Should i return/replace? any suggestions?
  
 Note: this did not happen right away. Maybe due to original "oh WOW!" effect perhaps I did not notice, but really the effect suddenly appeared out of nowhere after a few days/hours.


----------



## ClieOS

tjphysicist said:


> HI guys,
> This is a "carry over" question from the th-x00 thread, as I originally assumed it was a headphones issue. A few hours of listening in with the idsd micro, and I'm suddenly noticing that everything sounds a bit "sibilant" or "hissy", like someone put some crinkly paper in my speaker system. (not always but it's not just "high pitches sounds wierd" or something it ruins the WHOLE song, if that makes sense). I switched USB ports on my macbook and it's a bit better now, but still there. Should i return/replace? any suggestions?
> 
> Note: this did not happen right away. Maybe due to original "oh WOW!" effect perhaps I did not notice, but really the effect suddenly appeared out of nowhere after a few days/hours.


 
  
 Have you tried changing the filter setting to 'Bit-Perfect'?


----------



## TjPhysicist

clieos said:


> Have you tried changing the filter setting to 'Bit-Perfect'?


 
 Always been in bit-perfect.


----------



## technobear

tjphysicist said:


> HI guys,
> This is a "carry over" question from the th-x00 thread, as I originally assumed it was a headphones issue. A few hours of listening in with the idsd micro, and I'm suddenly noticing that everything sounds a bit "sibilant" or "hissy", like someone put some crinkly paper in my speaker system. (not always but it's not just "high pitches sounds wierd" or something it ruins the WHOLE song, if that makes sense). I switched USB ports on my macbook and it's a bit better now, but still there. Should i return/replace? any suggestions?
> 
> Note: this did not happen right away. Maybe due to original "oh WOW!" effect perhaps I did not notice, but really the effect suddenly appeared out of nowhere after a few days/hours.




This kind of behaviour is perfectly normal during the burn-in period. The iDSD will go through 'growing pains'.

Also, the effect will be less when the unit is warmed up.

An iPurifier2 will also reduce sibilance (once burned in and when warmed up).


----------



## TjPhysicist

technobear said:


> This kind of behaviour is perfectly normal during the burn-in period. The iDSD will go through 'growing pains'.
> 
> Also, the effect will be less when the unit is warmed up.
> 
> An iPurifier2 will also reduce sibilance (once burned in and when warmed up).




I thought this had a purifier built in no? So you say wait and keep it? Because other than those issue I'm more than delighted with the idsd. The thing is, if I return the idsd now, keep that money then wait a few weeks, I may be able to "afford" mojo...not sure that's worth doing, but have top decide before the return window


----------



## technobear

tjphysicist said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > This kind of behaviour is perfectly normal during the burn-in period. The iDSD will go through 'growing pains'.
> ...




The micro iDSD has the original iPurifier built in. The iPurifier2 is a much more advanced widget.

You will have the same running in issues with the Mojo. All modern electronics are the same in requiring a break-in/burn-in period and the higher up the quality ladder you go, the worse it generally gets. Items such as low-ESR capacitors take a good while to settle and are often the cause of the 'growing pains'.


----------



## iFi audio

*iFi Audio 3D-Matrix - Part 2/2*  
 The iDSD micro was actually iFi's first product to contain 3D-Marix ready for both speakers and headphones. Only our Retro and iCAN Pro models share this technology, whereas 3D-Matrix headphones side was introduced in iCAN and its speakers side was to be found in iTube and upcoming iTube2.
  
  

  
  
 The whole line-out processing implements a Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF from here-on) that is designed to correct standard microphone recordings played back on speakers. Said process for headphones also implements a HRTF, yet designed to correct standard microphone recordings played back on them.
  
 This needs to be taken into account when using iFi products that incorporate the 3D-Matrix. To conclude, the line/speaker outputs always have the speakers version of the 3D-Matrix applied, while headphone output is always equipped with the headphone version of said tech.
  
  

  

 As both speaker and headphone versions have a nature that is nearly (but not completely) mirror imaged, 3D effects should be disabled when using the line out to drive a headphone amplifier or using headphone adapters on speaker outputs.


----------



## canali

to technobear and ifi, among others.
 question please.
  
 currently am using laptop to dac to powered desktop speakers for my music
 (anyone wanting to sell some adam F5 pm me btw).
  
 i'm using the iFi (silver) micro idsd as a dac/preamp in direct mode from laptop (has my tidal/roon, ripped cds and 24/192 files)
 ...also using the iFi mercury cable and ifi purifier 2 into idsd...then out to powered desktop speakers.
  
 do you guys also invest $$$ into good dual rca cables or not to run from the micro into the speakers?
 you'd think alot of any usb buzz or whatever is removed and made smoother from
 the mercury cable and ipurifier 2.
  
 i was looking at the burson cable amongst others
 (to also experiement with my dragonfly red and chord mojo as a dac to the powered speakers\as i'd need a 3.5 to dual rca)...


----------



## TjPhysicist

canali said:


> i'm using the iFi (silver) micro idsd as a dac/preamp in direct mode from laptop (has my tidal/roon, ripped cds and 24/192 files)
> ...also using the iFi mercury cable and ifi purifier 2 into idsd...then out to powered desktop speakers.


 
 quick relatively unrelated question...but where do you people even get 192 files?
  


technobear said:


> The micro iDSD has the original iPurifier built in. The iPurifier2 is a much more advanced widget.
> 
> You will have the same running in issues with the Mojo. All modern electronics are the same in requiring a break-in/burn-in period and the higher up the quality ladder you go, the worse it generally gets. Items such as low-ESR capacitors take a good while to settle and are often the cause of the 'growing pains'.


  
 Aah i see. I actually never think of DACs requiring burn ins, headphones - of course. But it makes sense, especially the way the sound was/is changing (which is why I originally thought it was the headphones). 
  
 P.S: IDK what people are talking about, micro iDSD is totally portable, a bit BIG but definitely something I can carry around.


----------



## canali

tjphysicist said:


> quick relatively unrelated question...but where do you people even get 192 files?


 
 no problem...we're all here to help one another.
 see 7digital.com....there are other online sites selling FLAC files
 https://ca.7digital.com/
 i got  my remastered Rush albums here in 24/192
  
 see also *hd tracks* etc.
  
 there are some who say 24/192 isn't worth it..that you can't tell the difference unless you have $$$ premium equipment.
 and maybe that is true...it also depends on how well _mastered_ is the cd/album.
 see s*teve hoffman* where alot of people discuss which master matters etc.
 http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/
 and Rush's albums (along with Beatles remasters) were done by *Sean Magee at Abbey Road studios*.
 ...both groups' remasters had great reviews.
  
 my additional rational for 24/192 vs lower resolution: we're moving towards better audio all the time
 so maybe these files will be more widely accepted and supported as we move forward...
 plus the diff in price from 24/96 to 24/192 is negligible
  
 and don't forget *loudness wars* link:
 http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=


----------



## TjPhysicist

canali said:


> no problem...we're all here to help one another.
> see 7digital.com....there are other online sites selling FLAC files
> https://ca.7digital.com/
> i got  my remastered Rush albums here in 24/192
> ...


 
 awesome, thanks. Yea I've heard of HDTracks, actually. I don't quite understand the "loudness wars" link btw. As for 44.1 vs 192, I'm with you: maybe it doesn't matter now but I'm not going to say no to "more information" in my music at any rate. For better or worse I can def. hear the difference in this 192 "Hotel california" album. 
  
 Also, better equipment and files always exposes bad masters, IMO that's the way it's always gonna be. There are some songs I  can't stand to hear unless it's with my phone and my cheaper headphones.


----------



## canali

tjphysicist said:


> awesome, thanks. Yea I've heard of HDTracks, actually. I don't quite understand the "loudness wars" link btw. As for 44.1 vs 192, I'm with you: maybe it doesn't matter now but I'm not going to say no to "more information" in my music at any rate. For better or worse I can def. hear the difference in this 192 "Hotel california" album.
> 
> Also, better equipment and files always exposes bad masters, IMO that's the way it's always gonna be. There are some songs I  can't stand to hear unless it's with my phone and my cheaper headphones.


 
*https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=understanding%20loudness%20wars*
  
*understanding loudness wars*
  
 touches upon that *dynamic range* link i provided, too
 my mistake...that link i provided earlier is_ loudness wars_ related, but has the _dynamic range_ of albums/cds/flac files out there
 supposedlythe _*more green in the dynamic range then the better sounding.*_
  
_*see all this lovely green...much of it the 2015 remasters done by sean magee of abbey road, i believe.*_


----------



## TjPhysicist

canali said:


> no problem...we're all here to help one another.
> see 7digital.com....there are other online sites selling FLAC files
> https://ca.7digital.com/
> i got  my remastered Rush albums here in 24/192
> ...


 
 I have a tidal.com 3 month trial. But somehow managed to spend about $40 already in that place. My ears thank you (my wallet hates both of us now btw)!


----------



## DarktoreS

My custom solution for real good power setting hihihi...


----------



## iFi audio

*Audiophile Club of Athens – the President uses the iFi iDAC2 in his ultra-fi system!*
  
 Late last year, when we were at the Athens Audio Show, we met Mr Kyriakos Kougioumtzoglou – President of the ACA since 2016. Mr Kougioumtzoglou, who also happens to be an EE, knows his onions. He has an ultra-fidelity system which is something to behold; including the Micro Seki RX-1500 and Tascam BR-20 Reel-to-Reel. Not to mention Wilson Audio Alexandria X2 speakers and Siltech cables (if you have to ask…), among other things this gent has.
  
 We were quite taken aback when Mr Kougioumtzoglou told us he bought an iDAC2 for digital duties fed by the Metronome C2A. It has stayed there ever since. Yes, you got this right. He obtained the unit first, gave it a good spin in his expensive setup and then reported that he liked it. And that’s the reason why this is huge for us as we never knew the President of the ACA had iFi in his system. 

 We are lost for more superlatives but thank you Mr Kougioumtzoglou for letting us know of your little iFi in your big system!
  
 Here is the system:
  

  
 http://www.aca.gr/index/members/greece?row=18
  
 Thank you ACA!


----------



## shuto77

I have my iFi iDSD Micro arriving tomorrow. Very excited to check it out.


----------



## TjPhysicist

I need some help. What is the cheapest DAP I can get that will work with the DAC/AMP in idsd micro? (Yes I know "phone", but I tend to get cheap 16GB/32GB phones so I'm looking for something to fill the gap there).
  
 First off, if there are any at all <$200 (because that would be the cost for me to upgrade from my current phone to a 128GB version).


----------



## synapse09

tjphysicist said:


> I need some help. What is the cheapest DAP I can get that will work with the DAC/AMP in idsd micro? (Yes I know "phone", but I tend to get cheap 16GB/32GB phones so I'm looking for something to fill the gap there).
> 
> First off, if there are any at all <$200 (because that would be the cost for me to upgrade from my current phone to a 128GB version).


 
 Fiio X1 ii come's to mind(no personal experience with it)


----------



## TjPhysicist

X1-ii has digital out?? (to use idsd as a DAC)


----------



## synapse09

tjphysicist said:


> X1-ii has digital out?? (to use idsd as a DAC)


 
 ah n/m after looking at it again doesn't seem to be able to output audio through its micro usb


----------



## TjPhysicist

synapse09 said:


> ah n/m after looking at it again doesn't seem to be able to output audio through its micro usb


 
 Actually, it looks like it has coaxial out (which i always assumed was analogue cuz it looks like those regular TV cables outputs), but apparently not! I'd still prefer something with optical tbh.


----------



## technobear

tjphysicist said:


> synapse09 said:
> 
> 
> > ah n/m after looking at it again doesn't seem to be able to output audio through its micro usb
> ...




Shanling M1

http://www.head-fi.org/t/816385/shanling-m1-an-ipod-nano-competitor-dap-usb-dac-usb-transport-bluetooth-4-0-aptx-dsd


----------



## canali

*2 things:*
  
*1*/ it might be a good year for better quality music for us all:
All Three Major Labels, Pandora and RIAA Announce Support for Hi-Res Audio Streaming  
*http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7647454/major-labels-pandora-riaa-announce-support-hi-res-streaming-mqa*
  
*2/* *MQA*
  
*for iFi.*..are there any plans for firmware updates to allow the micro idsd to play *MQA,* given Tidal is now offering MQA?
 (and supposedly others will this yr, too as per the billboard article above)
* *it seems that Audioquest and their new dragonflys will be offering MQA thru a firmware upgrade.
 please..pretty please 
  
_''AudioQuest, are also announcing MQA implementation in their USB DAC products, DragonFly Red  _
_and Black. MQA will be available to AudioQuest customers later this month via a free software update. _
_Steve Silberman, VP of Development, commented:_
_“AudioQuest aims to deliver amazing sound quality and MQA implementation in our products demonstrates this commitment._
_We’re very excited to offer AudioQuest customers the best possible audio experience.” MQA demonstrations will be in_
_the AudioQuest Venetian suites 30-105 and 30-106, and at the Hi-Res Audio Pavilion.''_
*http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/ces-2017-as-it-happens/*


----------



## rickyleelee

Lotoo paw5000 is good for the price especially. or iBasso X3?


----------



## TjPhysicist

rickyleelee said:


> Lotoo paw5000 is good for the price especially. or iBasso X3?


 
 I'm thinking about DX50 or DX80. 
  
 I was originally thinking of getting one with tidal support, so I don't need to depend on my computer or phone for music at all (even now with usb c, connecting a USB dac to phone seems to be a bit hit/miss, some DACs better than others, but still).  But DAMN anything that gets close to wifi/apps costs basically as much as a phone, and doesn't have good connections for transport (coaxial/optical) or does and costs >$600. OFC my perfect DAP would be: under $300, optical/coax out, 6.3mm HO and tidal/spotify/google music support. (I can go cheap on the DAC/Amp inside the DAP tbh, since i'll be using it with my own DAC).


----------



## iclckjohn

I've got the Sony Hap-S1 digital music server that has RCA outputs That I want to put in to the Micro iDSD... But I just noticed that it was labeled input on the iDSD RCAs....So does that mean DONT connect them that way? And if not, how.


----------



## TjPhysicist

iclckjohn said:


> I've got the Sony Hap-S1 digital music server that has RCA outputs That I want to put in to the Micro iDSD... But I just noticed that it was labeled input on the iDSD RCAs....So does that mean DONT connect them that way? And if not, how.


 
 You can  get RCA to 3.5mm (It will be a Y cable, since 3.5mm is only one jack for combined L+R) then put that into the 3.5mm input in the front. Note: just to clarify this means the idsd micro will be a amp only.


----------



## iFi audio

tjphysicist said:


> You can  get RCA to 3.5mm (It will be a Y cable, since 3.5mm is only one jack for combined L+R) then put that into the 3.5mm input in the front. Note: just to clarify this means the idsd micro will be a amp only.


 
  
 That's correct. But there's also an option to use iDSD Micro as a source and connect it to said Sony machine's line inputs (presumably their level can be fixed). In such scenario the latter's functionality would be limited to amplifier (headphone amp and stereo power amp) only.


----------



## TjPhysicist

BTW, is there ANY way to use the idsd micro via optical/coaxial in WHILE charging it? I'm thinking of a scenario where i am using the idsd micro at home with a source that outputs coaxial/optical.
  
 ETA: I COULD use a wall charger (or battery pack) to charge using the included blue cable and connect optical at same time. Before I do this however, @iFi audio will this work? and more importantly, is it safe for the device to do this (i.e. short term/long term, is this a good way to operate)?


----------



## shuto77

technobear said:


> Yeah. You just need a split OTG cable. One end goes in the phone, the other end goes in the iUSB and the type A socket goes in the iDSD. Note that this won't charge the phone.




Is this the one-stop solution to connect my Android phone and Windows PC to the idsd? 

Thanks!


----------



## guzmanatm

tjphysicist said:


> ETA: I COULD use a wall charger (or battery pack) to charge using the included blue cable and connect optical at same time. Before I do this however, @iFi audio will this work? and more importantly, is it safe for the device to do this (i.e. short term/long term, is this a good way to operate)?


 
 I asked iFi this same question over a support ticket. They said it was OK to run a USB into the micro iDSD to charge it while Optical is sending out the digital signal. It seemed to work fine when connected to a battery pack or plugged in to the wall.


----------



## technobear

shuto77 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah. You just need a split OTG cable. One end goes in the phone, the other end goes in the iUSB and the type A socket goes in the iDSD. Note that this won't charge the phone.
> ...




If you mean what I think you mean then no, it isn't. 

One cable carries data only (from the phone). 

The other carries power only (from a USB PSU such as the iUSBPower).

It is not possible to connect a phone and a PC to the iDSD via USB at the same time.


----------



## DarktoreS

This weekend is first big fight for the IDSD-Black : Alo Panam ''mullard tube and Lehmann Linear SE usb for drive my Beyerdynamic DT1990...


----------



## canali

darktores said:


> This weekend is first big fight for the IDSD-Black : Alo Panam ''mullard tube and Lehmann Linear SE usb for drive my Beyerdynamic DT1990...


 
  
 nice rig...looking forward to your thoughts
  
 fingers crossed that iFi does firmware upgrade on the idac and idsd to allow for MQA, since others are doing so (audioquest and their dragonflys)


----------



## Beolab

Cant get my iDSD Black to charge!? 

I am using a 5v / 2A USB charger with a 
USB- A-A cable inserted in the side of the iDSD Black, but does not take any charging!? 

I have tested to turn it On but it just blinking red and would not play. 

Need som help here


----------



## rafaelpernil

beolab said:


> Cant get my iDSD Black to charge!?
> 
> I am using a 5v / 2A USB charger with a
> USB- A-A cable inserted in the side of the iDSD Black, but does not take any charging!?
> ...


 
 Charging is done through the same USB input you use to connect it to your source, so it will charge if you leave it connected to your PC using the included blue cable.
  
 Regards,
 Rafa


----------



## Beolab

rafaelpernil said:


> Charging is done through the same USB input you use to connect it to your source, so it will charge if you leave it connected to your PC using the included blue cable.
> 
> Regards,
> Rafa




Okey, but what about the USB input on the side then, where it say 5 v / 1,5 A Charging, is that for charge another product like an iphone or?


----------



## Mr Creosote

AMR has replied before. Doubt they will do the mqa thing. The customer cost is quite a big wedge. As it gets passed through the chain. I’d rather spend on better parts and enjoy with all my tunes.


----------



## frogmeat69

beolab said:


> Okey, but what about the USB input on the side then, where it say 5 v / 1,5 A Charging, is that for charge another product like an iphone or?


 
 Yes, for charging your phone, etc.


----------



## technobear

frogmeat69 said:


> beolab said:
> 
> 
> > Okey, but what about the USB input on the side then, where it say 5 v / 1,5 A Charging, is that for charge another product like an iphone or?
> ...




...and only active when the iDSD is turned OFF.

Basically you can use the iDSD as an emergency charger for your phone using that side USB port.


----------



## AutumnCrown

If there are no balance problems after 10 o'clock, why does iFi recommended having the volume pot between 12 and 3? 
  
 Also, is +- 2 volts (eco mode) enough to drive the HD600? If I have it on normal, I can't put the knob past 12 except for certain classical tracks. I listen to music quietly, so I guess that means that the 2 volt max of eco mode is enough?


----------



## technobear

autumncrown said:


> If there are no balance problems after 10 o'clock, why does iFi recommended having the volume pot between 12 and 3?
> 
> Also, is +- 2 volts (eco mode) enough to drive the HD600? If I have it on normal, I can't put the knob past 12 except for certain classical tracks. I listen to music quietly, so I guess that means that the 2 volt max of eco mode is enough?




If it's loud enough then that means it's loud enough.


----------



## TjPhysicist

I asked a similar question in the th-x00 thread (the HP's i use with this dac), because I always wonder about this: @iFi audio why 6.3mm? Don't get me wrong, the 6.3mm is why i CHOSE ifi idsd over chord mojo (that and price, even though mojo is smaller), but I always wonder about why people choose 6.3mm jacks (for that matter, I want to know why fostex/massdrop decided to go with 6.3mm jacks on th-x00).


----------



## iFi audio

autumncrown said:


> If there are no balance problems after 10 o'clock, why does iFi recommended having the volume pot between 12 and 3?
> 
> Also, is +- 2 volts (eco mode) enough to drive the HD600? If I have it on normal, I can't put the knob past 12 except for certain classical tracks. I listen to music quietly, so I guess that means that the 2 volt max of eco mode is enough?


 
  
 12 - 3 o'clock means least resistance, which translates to the most open listening. If it's there, it's for the best to maximise than minimise. Picture driving a Honda Fireblade. There's no point driving it at 500rpm. Should be up closer to 10,000rpm


----------



## PabloSRT8

Hello! I have a few questions:
 is the ifi micro idsd black better sounding than the silver?
  
 can I use it with a surface pro 4 and if so, should I use foobar2000?
  
 is a pioneer xdp-100 or onkyo dp-x1 a good match or should I get something else?
  
 I'll be using the ifi with fostex th-900mk2 because it came as a set from adorama for 1299; or should I just sell the ifi and get something else to use with the headphones.
  
 I have 700 left for the dap or if I sell the ifi ill have some more, what do you recommend?
 thanks!


----------



## AutumnCrown

ifi audio said:


> 12 - 3 o'clock means least resistance, which translates to the most open listening. If it's there, it's for the best to maximise than minimise. Picture driving a Honda Fireblade. There's no point driving it at 500rpm. Should be up closer to 10,000rpm


 

 Interesting. Thanks for the response. Can you point me toward a primer on this concept of resistance vis a vis headphone performance?


----------



## TjPhysicist

OMG that short black cable that was with this is a 3.5mm to RCA digital Coax cable? dang, I didnt realise and I was going CRAZY looking online for a short digital coaxial to use with my new DAP.


----------



## iFi audio

Boys and girls, just a quick reminder. We'll attend to UK's world famous  Sound & Vision - Bristol Show. As per usual, we'll show a new thing or two there, so if you're around, please come and visit us! 
  
  
*The date: 24th - 26th of February*
*The place: Marriott City Centre Hotel, Lower Castle Street, Bristol, BS1 3AD
 The brand: iFi Audio / suite 11*
  
  
  

  
  
  
 For further info, please take a look here:
  
http://www.bristolshow.co.uk
  
  
  
 See you on the spot!


----------



## technobear

ifi audio said:


> Boys and girls, just a quick reminder. We'll attend to UK's world famous [COLOR=222222] Sound & Vision - Bristol Show. As per usual, we'll show a new thing or two there, so if you're around, please come and visit us! [/COLOR]
> 
> See you on the spot!




See you there 

http://www.bristolshow.co.uk/news_detail.lasso?newsid=8234

Intriguing! :rolleyes:


----------



## iFi audio

autumncrown said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the response. Can you point me toward a primer on this concept of resistance vis a vis headphone performance?


 
  
 Potentiometers are made with tracks using a variety of conductive materials and using wipers to connect to the signal.

 For standard ‘linear law’ potentiometers, the resistive coating is the same all across the track, but such potentiometers can't be used in standard volume control applications.

 The so-called ‘audio taper’ (aka. logarithmic) potentiometers vary the resistance across the arc of the track to get a change in attenuation with angle that approximates equal increments in loudness per angle of rotation.

 In many ways making potentiometers requires craft and know-how.

 The varying coating causes potential issues. The higher up towards ‘max’ a potentiometer is set, the better things are. Ideally for the highest listening levels a volume control position near maximum (or fully open) is desirable, as takes sonic degradation from the volume control down to negligible.

 This is why it is important to get the gain right and have the volume control operating in its best range with "loud but normal" listening levels near the maximum (better at 3 o'clock than 12 o'clock).

 We say it's 12 to 3 range simply because music recording levels vary!


----------



## joshnor713

ifi audio said:


> 12 - 3 o'clock means least resistance, which translates to the most open listening. If it's there, it's for the best to maximise than minimise. Picture driving a Honda Fireblade. There's no point driving it at 500rpm. Should be up closer to 10,000rpm


 
  
 What if I can't go past 10 o'clock on the Ultra Sensitivity setting before it's too loud?


----------



## technobear

joshnor713 said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > 12 - 3 o'clock means least resistance, which translates to the most open listening. If it's there, it's for the best to maximise than minimise. Picture driving a Honda Fireblade. There's no point driving it at 500rpm. Should be up closer to 10,000rpm :wink_face:
> ...




Too bad! 

You must be using extremely sensitive IEMs for that to be true. I assume you are using Eco mode.


----------



## joshnor713

Quote:


technobear said:


> Too bad!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol. Using the SE846, and yes, on Eco mode. I can at least get further with the BL than the original idsd, which was 9 o'clock.


----------



## synapse09

LOL with my K7XX I'm barely at 9:30-10 in eco mode and IE match off... I can go 12 o'clock if I set IE Match to high sensitivity. Waiting for my Ether C Flow to come in and I'll see where the volume knob is sitting with those...


----------



## Condocondor

Dear iDSD Black Label fans,

 Well, I'm a newbie to personal audio in the last year-and-a-half, and when I tell you all what I've discovered, you'll likely tell me I'm "late to the party".  But there's magic in the telling. 

 Well here goes:  I was using my iDSD with the stock blue cable and my Beyer T5p.2 cans.  The whole system sounded pretty good--I thought.  I certainly didn't skimp on headphones and the iDSD BL is a very respectable DAC/AMP.  My listening habits are mostly listening to Youtube and ripped CD's to JRiver via my laptop.   I have pretty good ears and very good upper-mid quality home and office stereo equipment.

 So I bought this little device from iFi after doing some research called the *"iPurifier2"* and I'm still using the stock blue cable.  After I hooked it up, OMG!  What a difference!  The sound takes the iDSD to a whole other level.  So much cleaner sound....so much more ambiance and dimension that I could flip the 3D+ off most of the time.  Best $109 I ever spent--BARGAIN.

 Next up after doing some research is upgrading the USB cable.  I *HATED *the thought of spending $200 on a damned cable.  "You'd have to be crazy" I thought.  "Digital is digital, how much difference can there be?"  So just to prove there was no difference to myself, I ordered a Kimber Silver cable with one solid silver wire conductor for the signal and one "silver plated" conductor for the power leg (they have a cheaper model with two silver-plated conductors.)  It arrived today and hooked it up to the iDSD BL with the iPurifier2 and let it warm up for 30 minutes before listening.

 Within about 10 seconds my jaw hit the floor!  What a freaking difference a good USB cable makes.  Now this Micro iDSD BL absolutely sings....it's smooth, detailed, dynamic, spacious, and refined.  This new USB cable and iPurifier2 together simply makes the iDSD a COMPLETELY different animal for the better.  The 2 items together subjectively improve the entire listening experience AT LEAST 20-25%.  I don't even need the 3D+ and X-Bass+ engaged at all now! 
  
 My next "experiment" is that I've ordered an even higher end USB cable from MOON AUDIO called the "Silver Dragon" which has solid silver conductors on *both* the signal *and* the power legs of the USB cable.  We will see what that does for the iDSD sound experience and I'll report back to this forum with the results.

 Goodness what a learning experience.  The additional $280 spent on these accessories was well worth it.  Hope this sharing helps some other newbie be enlightened.


----------



## gr8soundz

condocondor said:


> Goodness what a learning experience.  The additional $280 spent on these accessories was well worth it.  Hope this sharing helps some other newbie be enlightened.


 
  
 I went through a similar process but already knew it could make a (slight) difference just from comparing some cheap cables. $250+ later (and with bigger improvements)......sometimes we do get what we pay for.


----------



## Beolab

condocondor said:


> Dear iDSD Black Label fans,
> 
> 
> Well, I'm a newbie to personal audio in the last year-and-a-half, and when I tell you all what I've discovered, you'll likely tell me I'm "late to the party".  But there's magic in the telling.
> ...




I am happy for you! 

What brand/headphones are you using? 

I am not going to say this because i want to spoil your happiness of your new Kimber USB cable , but when you are listening to the Kimber USB incl iPurifier 2 , then just for fun then switch to the stock Ifi blue USB cable and see if you can hear any difference, because i can bet money on that it is your brain that focus on different things each time you listen to the same track, and gets even more focused when you know that there is a new USB cable in the setup. 

Just a notice and off topic: 

There have been serious blind tests where a trained group of listeners have listen to a song and each ten times. During the test the scientists have told the group that they have changed something in setup, like for instance a cable , amp , cd - player or even the speakers. 

The group have during the test filled in to a test blanket if they thought that the sound got worser or better in a 10 grade scale with 10 different questions to fill in. 

And the result in the end of the day the scientists could distinguish a very interesting pattern from all in the test group just after the second listening to the same track, all taught they could here a significant improvement in different areas vs the first listening and so on.. 

What the group did not know of was that the scientists hadn't dune anything with the setup, the group had been listening to the same untouched setup with the same track 10 times in a row, but their mindset have tricked them to believe and their brains have focused on different things in the music each time the scientists have told them that they had dune something with the setup. 

Some nice input that needs to be enlightened from time to time, and great to know of just.. 

So please go back and try and see if you hear any difference.  


Have a great one!


----------



## shuto77

beolab said:


> I am happy for you!
> 
> What brand/headphones are you using?
> 
> ...




In related news, several audiophile cable manufacturers have just put you on a watch list... Lol


----------



## Beolab

shuto77 said:


> In related news, several audiophile cable manufacturers have just put you on a watch list... Lol




Yes most probably they have dune for a long time ago 

Why not tell about the real scientifically tested truth 

 Back to topic


----------



## Condocondor

Dear Beolab and Shuto77,

 I'm aware of these blind tests you're referring to-- I had read about them PRIOR to ordering the new silver USB cable.  Flammers rail at each other on blogs all the time over this topic--I know, I know.  This is why I was trying to prove myself wrong by ordering one of these new silver USB cables.  But I will go back to the stock blue one and A-B them.  I'm not going to put my head in the sand and close my mind.  I'd gladly like to save $200 and send the cable back for a refund--believe me.

 So just doing a little metallurgical research, I discovered that if silver is the best conductor there is, is given a baseline of 100%, that copper is about 94% of that.  So 6% greater resistance in copper--and this is just in metallurgical differences.  This does NOT account for differing geometries, shielding, dielectrics, etc. differences.  Yes, I suspect I'm the trouble maker on several cable manufacturer's watch lists BTW...lol.

 I'm using the Beyerdynamic T5p Second Generation as my primary cans.  I'm also using the AKG 553Pro.  Prior to the new iFi Micro iDSD BL, my DAC/AMP was an LH Labs Geekout 2A-- which also sounds much better with the above accouterments.


----------



## gr8soundz

beolab said:


> I am not going to say this because i want to spoil your happiness of your new Kimber USB cable , but when you are listening to the Kimber USB incl iPurifier 2 , then just for fun then switch to the stock Ifi blue USB cable and see if you can hear any difference, because i can bet money on that it is your brain that focus on different things each time you listen to the same track, and gets even more focused when you know that there is a new USB cable in the setup.


 
  
 Before getting the iPurifier2, I swapped the iDSD's blue cable with a $3 Monoprice cable and also tried a high-quality Monster usb cable. Surprisingly, after swapping each multiple times, the Monoprice cable sounded slightly better.
  
 Then I finally took a leap and ordered iFi's Mercury cable which beat them all. After adding the iP2 and a Jitterbug I haven't looked back.


----------



## Condocondor

gr8soundz said:


> Before getting the iPurifier2, I swapped the iDSD's blue cable with a $3 Monoprice cable and also tried a high-quality Monster usb cable. Surprisingly, after swapping each multiple times, the Monoprice cable sounded slightly better.
> 
> Then I finally took a leap and ordered iFi's Mercury cable which beat them all. After adding the iP2 and a Jitterbug I haven't looked back.


 

 The Mercury cable is copper though right? The primary design element with the Mercury Cable is the separation of the power and signal legs and bullet-proof terminations right?


----------



## gr8soundz

condocondor said:


> The Mercury cable is copper though right? The primary design element with the Mercury Cable is the separation of the power and signal legs and bullet-proof terminations right?


 
  
 Yes, plus gold plated plugs and lots of shielding. Silver is more conductive but too much silver can sound overly bright with some setups.
  
 Their Gemini cable has the dual plugs. I got the shorter, single-ended Mercury cable to make it easier to connect with smaller devices that might only have one usb port. Afaik, the Gemini should sound even better but at double the cost the returns are even more diminished.


----------



## Condocondor

gr8soundz said:


> Yes, plus gold plated plugs and lots of shielding. Silver is more conductive but too much silver can sound overly bright with some setups.
> 
> Their Gemini cable has the dual plugs. I got the shorter, single-ended Mercury cable to make it easier to connect with smaller devices that might only have one usb port. Afaik, the Gemini should sound even better but at double the cost the returns are even more diminished.


 
 I believe that the use of silver in a digital cable only results in more detail to my understanding.  Using silver in an analog cable translates to a brighter top end...again, from my understanding.  The silver Kimber USB cable gave me more detail across the board but not necessarily favoring the top end.  I got MUCH better bass because after using it I could simply turn my X-BASS+ switch off.  In fact I could turn the 3D+ off as well.  I mean that shocked me because with the stock blue cable--I was addicted to those switches.


----------



## Brooko

Please take the cable stuff to a new thread or put up some measurements.  I can only take so much ......


----------



## GuyUnder

USB is junk for audio. It pollutes the DAC's input clock and power network with noisy bus power from the PC. In addition, a USB receiver produces self-noise while it decodes USB streams. There are two ways to cope with it: decouple USB from the chain, or condition the USB line. The iPurifier is a conditioning device that filters out the worst noise from power bus and attempts to re-build the USB signal into as much as a pristine state as possible before sending it back out to the DAC. Noise still gets into the DAC, but it's greatly attenuated. Decoupling involves eliminating USB from the equation at some point, like network audio interfaces which also have the benefit of eliminating USB as a source of a ground loop problem (which also causes noise).
  
 Those of us who have been chasing better digital audio have sunk a lot of money into the hobby. For example, I'm eagerly awaiting this thing for my audio PC. It's a USB controller with a 24MHz OCXO clock and it costs $400:
  

  
 Also, try powering the iDSD Micro with a USB charging power pack and see what happens to the sound.


----------



## TjPhysicist

guyunder said:


> USB is junk for audio. It pollutes the DAC's input clock and power network with noisy bus power from the PC. In addition, a USB receiver produces self-noise while it decodes USB streams. There are two ways to cope with it: decouple USB from the chain, or condition the USB line. The iPurifier is a conditioning device that filters out the worst noise from power bus and attempts to re-build the USB signal into as much as a pristine state as possible before sending it back out to the DAC. Noise still gets into the DAC, but it's greatly attenuated. Decoupling involves eliminating USB from the equation at some point, like network audio interfaces which also have the benefit of eliminating USB as a source of a ground loop problem (which also causes noise).
> 
> Those of us who have been chasing better digital audio have sunk a lot of money into the hobby. For example, I'm eagerly awaiting this thing for my audio PC. It's a USB controller with a 24MHz OCXO clock and it costs $400:
> 
> ...




Usb power via adapter + sound via spdif is bad? Is sound while plugged in bad completely? My understanding was that in eco move for example the usb just powers the dac and battery isn't engaged?


----------



## GuyUnder

These kind of devices, especially those without the budget or real estate for things like galvanic isolation and EMI filtering are highly sensitive to dirty power. Your AC mains is full of noise. The USB power bus from the PC power supply is very noisy as well. Powering it off a clean source like a battery pack or linear power supply should make a noticeable improvement.


----------



## gr8soundz

guyunder said:


> Also, try powering the iDSD Micro with a USB charging power pack and see what happens to the sound.


 



guyunder said:


> These kind of devices, especially those without the budget or real estate for things like galvanic isolation and EMI filtering are highly sensitive to dirty power. Your AC mains is full of noise. The USB power bus from the PC power supply is very noisy as well. Powering it off a clean source like a battery pack or linear power supply should make a noticeable improvement.


 
  
 The iDSD Micro is already capable of running off it's own internal battery (a feature that's been discussed for over 2 years and confirmed to improve sound quality). Just turn it on first before connecting the usb cable.
  
 Depending on the setup there may still be noise on the data side of the usb connection but the Micro can provide clean power to itself.


----------



## TjPhysicist

gr8soundz said:


> The iDSD Micro is already capable of running off it's own internal battery (a feature that's been discussed for over 2 years and confirmed to improve sound quality). Just turn it on first before connecting the usb cable.
> 
> Depending on the setup there may still be noise on the data side of the usb connection but the Micro can provide clean power to itself.


 
 This has been discussed on this thread before too i think, but I just wanted to confirm that the best sound you can is running off of internal battery and using S/PDIF cable. (Think I'll end up doing that mostly and just charging when I have to. Also this matches with my experience, even with dx80 I can defenitely tell the sight difference in battery powered vs wall/hub powered). I also don't trust USB audio...bad experiences involving USB-OTG and fiio DACs have left a sour taste.
  
 Also: I kept thinking my Ifi was sounding weird (mentioned a few posts back) and after hours more of burn in i've concluded it is very much to do with dirty power/data etc. (optical sounds a LOT better, and using dx80 sounds even better compared to mac). 
  
 On that note: is it me or is macbook's 3.5mm optical jack just rubbish? I fail to understand how it's WORSE than USB even while powered. (very thin sounding compared to other sources/cable combos).


----------



## matbhuvi

condocondor said:


> So I bought this little device from iFi after doing some research called the *"iPurifier2"* and I'm still using the stock blue cable.  After I hooked it up, OMG!  What a difference!  The sound takes the iDSD to a whole other level.  So much cleaner sound....so much more ambiance and dimension that I could flip the 3D+ off most of the time.  Best $109 I ever spent--BARGAIN.


 
  
 iDSD Micro has iPurifier built in right?


----------



## ClieOS

matbhuvi said:


> iDSD Micro has iPurifier built in right?


 
  
 Yes, but iPurifier and iPurifier2 are not the same.


----------



## shuto77

Can anyone point me to some detailed impressions comparing the idsd Micro to the Black Label edition?

I like my Micro, but I'm curious if the Black Label is a significant improvement.


----------



## technobear

shuto77 said:


> Can anyone point me to some detailed impressions comparing the idsd Micro to the Black Label edition?
> 
> I like my Micro, but I'm curious if the Black Label is a significant improvement.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-black-label-tour-details-page-147-release-info-page-153


----------



## iFi audio

beolab said:


> There have been serious blind tests where a trained group of listeners have listen to a song and each ten times. During the test the scientists have told the group that they have changed something in setup, like for instance a cable , amp , cd - player or even the speakers.
> 
> The group have during the test filled in to a test blanket if they thought that the sound got worser or better in a 10 grade scale with 10 different questions to fill in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, these tests have been done. Some equally interesting and of fully blind approach were performed at the London HiFi Circle. What was tested here was the power of belief. Here the procedure itself was very similar, however the administrator claimed to have changed mains cables, when in reality the polarity of one channel was inverted. 
  
 Those in the group who were "cable believers" could hear the polarity inversion of one channel with 100% accuracy and remarked how soundstage collapsed and bass became weak. Those in the group who were "cable disbelivers" failed to hear any difference and marked accordingly. 
  
 What both sets of tests show is that any blind one in which the subject have both knowledge of what is being tested and expectations is... actually severely biased. As a result, 'blind' in a way fails to remove experimental bias.
  
 Any valid blind test must be blind not only to the identity of the devices/options tested, but also to the nature of the test itself. Otherwise the placebo/nocebo effect introduces a strong bias, which results in a strong randomising effect on the outcome. Differences expected are thus heard whereas non-existent and not expected ones are thus not heard, even when they exist.
  
 We would like to (again) draw the attention to a blind test that shows how it should be implemented and is among a very small list of tests that avoided massive levels of bias in the experiment. 
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/god-nuances-page-3
  
 Starting at the heading "Expert testimony" we read the description of a really serious experiment in listening, with interesting conclusions.


----------



## canali

*writeup by Darko on Tidal and MQA, currently.*
  
*http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/mqa-tidal-where-are-we-now/*
OPINIONSOFTWARE
MQA & Tidal – where are we now? by 


John H. Darkoabout


----------



## TjPhysicist

hookedonaudio said:


> If looking at similar price range, it would be
> 1. ALO Audio (actually, this is still more expensive than the iDSD Micro)
> 2. iDSD Micro


 
 IDK if it's burn in or what but the idsd is still sounding a bit weird to me, i can't describe it properly, maybe too bright? it's weird in the high is all i can tell. Anyways, which ALO ones did you use? BTW i just realised they sell right angled 3.5mm optical which NO ONE sells, i;ve been scouring the internet for it, (it may be too short, though), how are their cables?
  


cbl117 said:


> I originally posted this in a Lyr 2 thread, but wanted to share here  becuase it bodes very well for the iDSD.
> 
> I have some iDSD/HD650 impressions and a comparison between Bimby/Lyr2/LCD-X
> 
> ...


 
 Oddly enough my iDSD was okay out of the box for a few hours THEN it became bright/hard sounding (i think?) Improved a lot by moving away from dirty stuff like USB and macbook optical, but still kinda there for a lot of songs and VERY distracting. I do hope it goes away.


----------



## Joseph Lin

guzmanatm said:


> tjphysicist said:
> 
> 
> > ETA: I COULD use a wall charger (or battery pack) to charge using the included blue cable and connect optical at same time. Before I do this however, @iFi audio will this work? and more importantly, is it safe for the device to do this (i.e. short term/long term, is this a good way to operate)?
> ...


 

 Sorry I tried to use Coaxial and charging at the same time but every time when USB is plugged in, iDSD would stop playing from Coaxial. How am I able to charge and feed via coaxial?


----------



## TjPhysicist

joseph lin said:


> Sorry I tried to use Coaxial and charging at the same time but every time when USB is plugged in, iDSD would stop playing from Coaxial. How am I able to charge and feed via coaxial?


 
 If USB gets data then it will think it needs to play from that. Use either a source (or cable? not sure about that) that only does power, e.g. wall plug. (THat's what I asked a few posts ago, using a wall plug or battery to charge while using S/PDIF)...and remember first connect USB *then* turn on the ifi.


----------



## TjPhysicist

Sorry guys, I know I've asked this a bunch of times, but I wanna know if there's something wrong with my idsd or that's just how it sounds or something. IDK how to describe it but it's something between tinny and sibilant sounding but not just during highs or cymbal crashes but whole songs to the point of it being distracting (i'm not able to enjoy any other frequency). Like there's a fly in the song just buzzing around softly at a weird frequency.
  
 I've done maybe 20-30hours-ish of burn in so far, and do note, this ONLY started about 5-6 hours IN, the first few hours of play time (days in real time) was AMAZING sound. I'm thinking I may have to return and get a replacement or another DAC.
  
 Edit: I'd like the throw the word "hissing" and "aliasing" in there somewhere too.


----------



## Joseph Lin

tjphysicist said:


> joseph lin said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry I tried to use Coaxial and charging at the same time but every time when USB is plugged in, iDSD would stop playing from Coaxial. How am I able to charge and feed via coaxial?
> ...


 

 Are you sure it functions like what you described? I quickly soldered a USB cable with Power and GND lines only and connect it to a wall plug, it charges iDSD but it cannot play music from coaxial.
  
 I have tested this many times with different scenarios in the past, none of them will play from coaxial when digital input is connected(charging).


----------



## TjPhysicist

joseph lin said:


> Are you sure it functions like what you described? I quickly soldered a USB cable with Power and GND lines only and connect it to a wall plug, it charges iDSD but it cannot play music from coaxial.
> 
> I have tested this many times with different scenarios in the past, none of them will play from coaxial when digital input is connected(charging).


 
 Yea, I've been doing that a lot last few days. Connect USB power (blue light on), then turn on the DAC and connect it to coaxial and it works. There's no real independent way of verifying it is charging because the audio/green light takes over the charging/blue one but after a few hours the battery remains full (i.e. if, after a few hours of this, i turn the idsd off the blue light doesn't come on). I'm using the supplied blue cable and an anker usb charger thing (the one with 5 usb ports and a usb-c port).


----------



## Joseph Lin

technobear said:


> sound eq said:
> 
> 
> > hello everyone i was wondering why i can not hear any sound when i connect my fiio x3 2nd gen to ifi micro dsd, and i set the line out to coaxial in fiio x3
> ...


 
 This is exactly my experience, when USB is plugged, you cannot play from coaxial. it sure will charge but will not play.


----------



## Joseph Lin

tjphysicist said:


> joseph lin said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure it functions like what you described? I quickly soldered a USB cable with Power and GND lines only and connect it to a wall plug, it charges iDSD but it cannot play music from coaxial.
> ...


 

 please see my previous post and other people's experience.


----------



## TjPhysicist

joseph lin said:


> please see my previous post and other people's experience.


 
 WEIRD! maybe i'm tripping out, idk. Oh well. But then there's this post:
  


guzmanatm said:


> I asked iFi this same question over a support ticket. They said it was OK to run a USB into the micro iDSD to charge it while Optical is sending out the digital signal. It seemed to work fine when connected to a battery pack or plugged in to the wall.


 
 Just tested it (again, there's no REAL way to tell if the battery is being used or not other than to just keep it running for a bit to see if battery is drained) and it works. @iFi audio  can you confirm this?


----------



## TjPhysicist

Quick question guys,
  
 Will  http://a.co/6lwjLHq [Mediabridge RCA Right Angle Adapter - 90° Female to Male Gold-Plated Connector - 2 Pack] work for digital signal without degrading sound?
  
The mediabridge website says this: 


> Impedance *75Ohms*


 
So I guess it's okay? (I'm confused because the ohms in RCA is supposed to have to do with RF interference right?)


----------



## DarktoreS

It's my new iPurifier2 Black-label for my IDSD Black_label hihihi


----------



## Rearwing

oh, that looks nice.


----------



## technobear

Looks unreal.


----------



## iFi audio

tjphysicist said:


> WEIRD! maybe i'm tripping out, idk. Oh well. But then there's this post:
> 
> Just tested it (again, there's no REAL way to tell if the battery is being used or not other than to just keep it running for a bit to see if battery is drained) and it works. @iFi audio  can you confirm this?


 
  
 Please turn it ON before USB connection. This 100% means battery power instead of USB power!


----------



## iFi audio

joseph lin said:


> This is exactly my experience, when USB is plugged, you cannot play from coaxial. it sure will charge but will not play.


 
  
 1. USB audio+power supplied (eg from PC) then SPDIF becomes output
 2. USB power ONLY supplied (eg from USB charger) then SPDIF becomes input
  
 That is it really. If there's a struggle still, just open an STS ticket here: http://support.ifi-audio.com


----------



## TjPhysicist

ifi audio said:


> Please turn it ON before USB connection. This 100% means battery power instead of USB power!


 
 Oh ok thanks. NOt sure why others here are having issues with charging + coaxial though.


----------



## PabloSRT8

Hi, iPhone 5s 64gb as dedicated transport for the ifi micro idsd black?
Good idea? 
I have a 6s but is filled with pictures and apps, I was thinking about getting an old 5s and use the usb dongle to ifi.
Besides only being 64gb, anything wrong with going that way?
Specially now with ios10 I can remove all Apple apps that would give me more room.
Thanks!


----------



## rickyleelee

did you paint it black?


----------



## PabloSRT8

It's called black edition


----------



## shuto77

rickyleelee said:


> did you paint it black?




"I wanna see it painted, painted black
Black as night, black as coal
I wanna see the sun blotted out from the sky"
-The Rolling Stones


----------



## Bykhoff

Silly question that I probably already know the answer to but I need reassurance. If I get a Sony Walkman and connect it via USB to my Micro IDSD, I'll get the same sound quality as when I do the same with my MacBook, correct?


----------



## Joseph Lin

ifi audio said:


> joseph lin said:
> 
> 
> > This is exactly my experience, when USB is plugged, you cannot play from coaxial. it sure will charge but will not play.
> ...


 
   
 I thought I am the only one who has this problem, I then search the whole thread and found several posts mentioned the same problem. I have "two" iDSDs, one silver and on BL. Both have the same problem. It seems like only older firmware 4.0.6 supports what iFi audio says. I think I'll return my iDSDs. It is rather disappointing.
  
 How many people are able to play from "Coaxial" input while connected to a usb charger?
  
 See the quoted posts below:
  
 Quote:


kotbegemot said:


> kevinq said:
> 
> 
> > I had the same question, in post #4664 on page 311, and never received an answer.
> ...


----------



## Joseph Lin

joseph lin said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > joseph lin said:
> ...


 
 Ok, I tried to upgrade to the newest firmware 5.2b and now it charges and takes coaxial input. Sorry for all the troubles.


----------



## rickyleelee

well done brother. we all get things wrong or misunderstood from tme to time. glad you got sorted with fw. enjoy the tunes. cos the Black label smokes most other dacs here on headfi. we just get on with enjoying the you tubes.


----------



## TjPhysicist

joseph lin said:


> Ok, I tried to upgrade to the newest firmware 5.2b and now it charges and takes coaxial input. Sorry for all the troubles.


 
 OH yea that could've been it, maybe they fixed something in 5.2b while they were fixing the weird sleep thing. I installed 5.2b even before I fully unboxed the idsd (having bought enough nexus phones I've gotten into that habit with my electronics now  )


----------



## Joseph Lin

tjphysicist said:


> joseph lin said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I tried to upgrade to the newest firmware 5.2b and now it charges and takes coaxial input. Sorry for all the troubles.
> ...


 

 Sorry for questioning you. I apologize. I have been using iDSD micro on battery for a very long time while using coaxial as input. Never thought that it will be able to charge and play at the same time. Now it is much more useful. Thank you for your patience.


----------



## iFi audio

tjphysicist said:


> WEIRD! maybe i'm tripping out, idk. Oh well. But then there's this post:
> 
> Just tested it (again, there's no REAL way to tell if the battery is being used or not other than to just keep it running for a bit to see if battery is drained) and it works. @iFi audio  can you confirm this?


 
  
 Let's address this in even more thorough way, shall we?
  
*TL;DR*
  
 If you want to keep your iDSD micro on all the time, you can still use the battery mode and normally not worry about the battery state. This is best if you usually use it to play music for a few hours at a time and then shut the music source off to allow the iDSD micro to top up its cells' charge. Using a USB port that is BC1.2 compliant and can deliver 1.5A of current is strongly recommended and essential if using Turbo mode.
  
 If you want 100% availability and 24/7 operation while never worrying about the battery state or which amplifier setting is engaged, power your iDSD micro from a BC1.2 compliant USB port and make sure power is available 24/7.
  
 If you want to have maximum play time "on the go" make sure to TURN OFF the iDSD micro when charging.  If you don't need maximum playtime, make sure to TURN ON  the iDSD micro when charging. and to make sure that your smartphone battery does not get drained when music stops, flash Firmware 5.2B.
  
*Long Version*
  
 iDSD micro has a fairly sophisticated charging system, but in the best Apple style, rather than festooning the device with a million gauges and LED's, we kept it as minimal as possible (we felt there where enough switches etc. as is).
  
 If the iDSD micro is turned on BEFORE being connected to a USB source (or just a USB charger) it is in "Battery Mode" until turned off next time.
  
 If the  iDSD micro is turned on AFTER being connected to a USB source (or just a USB charger) it is in "USB Mode" until turned off next time.
  
 Now unless Firmware 5.XB is used, the iDSD micro will actually re-charge in either mode, unless it detects a "weak power source" which is assumed to be a smart phone. Equally, in either mode the iDSD micro may draw on the battery if needed. 
  
 So it might be better to call the modes "Battery Power Priority" and "USB Power Priority".
  
 In battery mode, if music is playing via USB or SPDIF power is drawn ONLY from the battery, the USB power connection, if present is shut off. 
  
 However, if no music is playing on any input for 3 minutes, the iDSD micro will shut down the whole analogue and amplifier circuitry to conserve power (as these draw the most). And if it has detected a "strong" (500mA or greater) charge capable source it will recharge it's battery while no music is played. 
  
 The re-charge is set to not fill the battery up to 100% capacity as this would cause cells to wear out quickly, instead charge is capped at 75%, which means battery life in this case is equal to shelf life.
  
 Powersave mode is indicated by a blinking green LED, and if the iDSD micro is in powersave + recharge mode, it with show a blue LED.
  
 This means as long as 'eco' mode is used and you do not play music for more than 8 hours without interruption (and your computer settings allow the iDSD micro to go to sleep and charge), the iDSD micro may be operated in battery indefinitely, if it remains connected and turned on, because it will recharge automagically whenever there is no music playback for any length of time.
  
 In USB mode the iDSD micro will first and foremost apply USB power to keep internal systems 'alive'. If any power from the USB is "left over" after operating internals, it will be used to charge the battery. 
  
 If the power available from USB is insufficient, the iDSD micro will automatically draw the difference from the battery, which acts in effect as a booster pack. 
  
 If no music is played on any input for 15 minutes, the iDSD micro will shut down the whole analogue and amplifier circuitry to conserve power (it draws the most). Then more power is available to top up the battery.
  
 Again, the re-charge is set to not charge the battery to 100% capacity as this would cause the cells to wear out quickly. Instead charge is capped at 75%, which means battery life in this case is equal to shelf life.
  
 The power from a standard USB port is sufficient for operation of the iDSD micro ONLY in 'eco' mode, using a standard USB port and USB mode with normal/turbo may slowly drain the battery even in USB mode, unless the iDSD micro is allowed to enter powersave frequently enough to allow it to keep the cells topped up.
  
 This is because the iDSD micro is USB standard compliant, so it will never draw more than 500mA, unless the USB port it is attached to includes USB standard BC1.2 signaling, in which case the iDSD micro will draw the current it needs up to a maximum of 1.5A which is enough for both 'turbo' mode operation and charging a flat battery to 80% in under 12 hours. 
  
 The iUSB nano & micro implement BC1.2 and will supply the iDSD micro with all the power it needs at a quality that rivals battery operation. 
  
 Many inexpensive USB hubs also implement BC1.2 and can supply the iDSD micro with the power needed, though the results will not be as good as the iUSB.
  
 Further, if the iDSD micro is switched off when charging, it will fill the battery to 100% capacity. This will maximize playback time in portable use, but as the battery is now cycled past 75% it's lifespan will be shortened compared to the lower charge. 
  
 So if you do not need maximum battery charge, keep your iDSD micro on while charging to be easier on cells.


----------



## Bykhoff

Silly question that I probably already know the answer to but I need reassurance.
  
 If I purchase a Sony Walkman and connect it via USB to my Micro IDSD, Will I get the same sound quality as when I do the same with my MacBook, correct?
  
 I ask because I feel listening to music on the laptop offers too many distractions.


----------



## PabloSRT8

bykhoff said:


> Silly question that I probably already know the answer to but I need reassurance.
> 
> If I purchase a Sony Walkman and connect it via USB to my Micro IDSD, Will I get the same sound quality as when I do the same with my MacBook, correct?
> 
> I ask because I feel listening to music on the laptop offers too many distractions.


 

 I like to know the same thing, 
 but also like to know what player do you use in you MacBook to output to the micro idsd.
 I used foobar2000 in the past but on a windows 10 tablet, is that the one you would recommend?
 thanks.


----------



## TjPhysicist

pablosrt8 said:


> I like to know the same thing,
> but also like to know what player do you use in you MacBook to output to the micro idsd.
> I used foobar2000 in the past but on a windows 10 tablet, is that the one you would recommend?
> thanks.


 
 I'm a recent macbook convert (i.e. moved to macbook recently for work) and came to the same question. First off, and unfortunately, foobar does not exist for a mac (afaik). 
  

Vox is something I've used. The free version is quite simple, plays FLACs (and DSD too i think) no library management and so on, just a linear playlist(s). 
Audirvana is another (paid) option. It can pretty much handle anything including DSD512, if you're crazy like that (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I ended up getting it for $79 (do note, t*hey're coming out with v3 and there's a threshold by which you have to buy v2 to get v3 upgrade free*). It has library management etc, sound a BIT better/cleaner (i think, YMMV) and best of all comes with 90 days of tidal free (works best if you've never had a tidal account before). Audirvana support tidal form within the app. Tidal is streaming service like apple music or spotify but their premium "$20" version lets you stream 44.1/16 "redbook CD" FLACs, as well as MQA (support upcoming in audirvana, MQA "master quality" is a 96/24 file "folded into" a 44.1/16 FLAC stream, so as to make it easier for streaming). Their library is pretty good so I went for it anyways. 
[Note: *I'm no expert on computer audio, this is just what i've gathered*] Audirvana is capable of "direct mode" which skips coreaudio stuff i.e. mac's audio driver layer or whatver (the other option is "integer mode" which is directly feeds bit perfect into DAC afaik but goes through core audio). Direct mode is supposed to be cleaner as there is one less (or rather a much simpler) processing/data layer between song and DAC. 10.12 breaks direct mode btw, so I hope you haven't upgraded.
I've been using in integer mode, sounds good enough to me tbh. I would LIKE direct mode, though but that's only because I'm OCD like that.

  
 Those are the two I know about. There are a couple more, but on this forum audirvana seems very popular.


----------



## Bykhoff

I use Audirvana, as well.


----------



## PabloSRT8

bykhoff said:


> I use Audirvana, as well.



Thank you for the quick answer!
I just did a google search and a lot of people like HQPlayer.
But just found out it like $140!
I had foobar2000 on windows and it just worked...
I'm going to have to decide soon... but $140 is a lot.
Wonder if I won't be able to tell the difference between 
Audirvana and HQPlayer.
I just got back in the hobby.
My Fostex TH900MK2 and ifi Micro idsd Black just arrived.


----------



## TjPhysicist

pablosrt8 said:


> Thank you for the quick answer!
> I just did a google search and a lot of people like HQPlayer.
> But just found out it like $140!
> I had foobar2000 on windows and it just worked...
> ...


 
 As I said, audirvana gives you 3 months of tidal streaming for free ($20 * 3 months) which basically made the decision for me.


----------



## PabloSRT8

tjphysicist said:


> As I said, audirvana gives you 3 months of tidal streaming for free ($20 * 3 months) which basically made the decision for me.



Oh! I missed that! Thanks!
I was thinking at $140 I rather put it towards a dedicated dap, the Pioneer xdp-100r is 399 now... I don't want to fill up my iphone with music, it's only 64gb.


----------



## TjPhysicist

pablosrt8 said:


> Oh! I missed that! Thanks!
> I was thinking at $140 I rather put it towards a dedicated dap, the Pioneer xdp-100r is 399 now... I don't want to fill up my iphone with music, it's only 64gb.


 
 Bit OT but: If you're not getting streaming, may I suggest something cheaper? I'm using dx80. The FIIO ones (x3-ii, x5) are pretty popular as well, all under cheaper than xdp-100r.
  
  
  
 Note: I asume you want to do what I'm doing, which is hook it up to use idsd as your DAC. In which case, I like dx80 the best for that, it has a nice 3.5mm 2 pole (TS/mono) coaxial out, comes with a 3.5mm to coaxial digital cable AND has optical mini out in the same port (I like mini optical). THe fiio ones have 3.5mm coaxial as well, but I liked the dx80 better for having optical.


----------



## PabloSRT8

tjphysicist said:


> Bit OT but: If you're not getting streaming, may I suggest something cheaper? I'm using dx80. The FIIO ones (x3-ii, x5) are pretty popular as well, all under cheaper than xdp-100r.
> 
> 
> 
> Note: I asume you want to do what I'm doing, which is hook it up to use idsd as your DAC. In which case, I like dx80 the best for that, it has a nice 3.5mm 2 pole (TS/mono) coaxial out, comes with a 3.5mm to coaxial digital cable AND has optical mini out in the same port (I like mini optical). THe fiio ones have 3.5mm coaxial as well, but I liked the dx80 better for having optical.




Yes! I want just a transport, the more I read the harder it gets!
Seems that if the ifi has a better clock then you use USB , if the dap has a better clock then I would use coax.
I'm sure I won't notice any difference, I'm new at this (again)
I was looking at the Sony a17 because it looks like it has a long lasting battery and I can use a USB dongle so the ifi becomes the dac/amp.
Would you still recommend the one you have?
And yea, I don't think I want a music service... 
thank you again!


----------



## TjPhysicist

pablosrt8 said:


> Yes! I want just a transport, the more I read the harder it gets!
> Seems that if the ifi has a better clock then you use USB , if the dap has a better clock then I would use coax.
> I'm sure I won't notice any difference, I'm new at this (again)
> I was looking at the Sony a17 because it looks like it has a long lasting battery and I can use a USB dongle so the ifi becomes the dac/amp.
> ...


 
 I'm new too . Wholeheartedly. You can even get a nice 1/8" to RCA digital analogue cable from bluejeanscable OR use the included one (it's a bit short for me). Yet another option for you is 
  
 The other options are Fiio X5, X3 ii, shanling M1 (VERY cheap) I haven't used them, but I'm happy enough with DX80. All three are popular enough here that I think they should at least be good enough. There a few other slightly cheaper chinese make ones that I can't remember as well (mostly with at least 3.5mm coaxial and one sdcard slot).

dx80: sdcard*2, mono 3.5mm for coaxial AND mini optical out. $299ish
x5 iii: sdcard*2, (wierd) 3.5mm coaxial, $299 ish
x3 ii: quite cheap. same (weird) 3.5mm coaxial. You need a cable that goes from RCA coaxial and has a 3.5mm with 3 rings on it instead of 1 (2 rings=stereo, your regular headphones for example). Fiio offers a cable for pretty cheap on amazon (L21 i think). $169ish
shanling: tiny as hell. the size of one of those small ipod shuffles. USB C, *no coaxial iirc* (in order to use a DAC you need to connect via USB C to USB female cable). cheap too, $129 ish
 As far as I can remember, those are the cheap DAPs that let you use a DAC with them (via digital out).


----------



## TjPhysicist

tjphysicist said:


> I'm new too . Wholeheartedly. You can even get a nice 1/8" to RCA digital analogue cable from bluejeanscable OR use the included one (it's a bit short for me). Yet another option for you is
> 
> The other options are Fiio X5, X3 ii, shanling M1 (VERY cheap) I haven't used them, but I'm happy enough with DX80. All three are popular enough here that I think they should at least be good enough. There a few other slightly cheaper chinese make ones that I can't remember as well (mostly with at least 3.5mm coaxial and one sdcard slot).
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yea, just saw this https://www.massdrop.com/buy/cayin-n5-digital-audio-player
  
 Cayin N5: dual sdcard, 3.5mm coaxial output to your DAC..DAMN this may just be as good or better than dx80. AND it comes with a 3.5mm to coaxial female cable, so you can use your coaxial RCA cable that you have lying around.


----------



## TjPhysicist

ifi audio said:


> Let's address this in even more thorough way, shall we?
> 
> *TL;DR*
> 
> ...


 
 Wow thanks a lot for the details on how things work. Very complex and makes a lot of sense the way it works definitely. 
  
 A lot of this stuff however may be easier to be incorporated into PD2.0 and USB-C etc (maybe? idk) (e.g. master vs slave negotiation based on who was turned on first is part of how my nexus6p phone works). So here's another question for you guys: do you guys plan on doing PD2.0+USB C for your next iteration of mobile friendly DAC/Amps?
  
 Also: this also means that, unlike what I may have thought applying USB while using SPDIF whlie using "battery mode" (i.e.  idsd micro turned on first, then spdif connected THEN usb connected and then start playing) the USB power will not have a chance to "interfere with the music" (apparently that's a thing?). Looks like this is the best setup: no current while music is playing and auto recharge when i stop music.


----------



## iFi audio

tjphysicist said:


> A lot of this stuff however may be easier to be incorporated into PD2.0 and USB-C etc (maybe? idk) (e.g. master vs slave negotiation based on who was turned on first is part of how my nexus6p phone works). So here's another question for you guys: do you guys plan on doing PD2.0+USB C for your next iteration of mobile friendly DAC/Amps?


 
  
 We always look far into the future but at this point we won't confirm or deny anything


----------



## Bykhoff

What's the default position of the direct vs pre-amp switch? I'm using the idsd as my dac/amp for my headphones and I think the switch may have moved from its original position but I'm not sure.
  
 Thanks


----------



## frogmeat69

bykhoff said:


> What's the default position of the direct vs pre-amp switch? I'm using the idsd as my dac/amp for my headphones and I think the switch may have moved from its original position but I'm not sure.
> 
> Thanks


 

 Pretty sure it doesn't really matter if you are not using the RCA outs to another amp or similar. I have mine set to direct because I use it as a DAC for my iCan Pro.


----------



## BillsonChang007

bykhoff said:


> What's the default position of the direct vs pre-amp switch? I'm using the idsd as my dac/amp for my headphones and I think the switch may have moved from its original position but I'm not sure.
> 
> Thanks




It doesn't really matter if you're using it as a pure amp/DAC. Otherwiss, if you can still control the volume when using RCA to another amp, you are using pre-amp


----------



## Brooko

bykhoff said:


> What's the default position of the direct vs pre-amp switch? I'm using the idsd as my dac/amp for my headphones and I think the switch may have moved from its original position but I'm not sure.
> 
> Thanks


 
 If you are going to an external amp - you'll want to set a fixed line-out volume (from rear RCAs), so you set it to direct.  If you are going direct from read RCA to powered or passive speakers, and want to use the pot on the iDSD to control the speaker volume, you use pre-amp. Its a superb option if using the iDSD as predominantly a desktop DAC/amp.


----------



## TjPhysicist

ifi audio said:


> We always look far into the future but at this point we won't confirm or deny anything


 
 Fair enough. I AM looking forward to a usb-c DAC/Amp, hopefully whenever that becomes a thing.


----------



## BillsonChang007

tjphysicist said:


> Fair enough. I AM looking forward to a usb-c DAC/Amp, hopefully whenever that becomes a thing.




A USB-C cable might do just that  Or am I wrong :/


----------



## TjPhysicist

billsonchang007 said:


> A USB-C cable might do just that  Or am I wrong :/


 
 It'd be a lot easier done if the actual DAC has USB C input. USB C handles master-slave negotation a LOT better IMO, especially when talking about mobile devices. IT works a lot like the ifi idsd micro. When I plug my nexus6p into my usb-c battery pack (C to C cable) the one providing power depends on which one I turned on first. So if i turn on the battery THEN plug it in, it charges the phone, if I plug it in THEN turn on the battery it takes power from the phone.


----------



## BillsonChang007

tjphysicist said:


> It'd be a lot easier done if the actual DAC has USB C input. USB C handles master-slave negotation a LOT better IMO, especially when talking about mobile devices. IT works a lot like the ifi idsd micro. When I plug my nexus6p into my usb-c battery pack (C to C cable) the one providing power depends on which one I turned on first. So if i turn on the battery THEN plug it in, it charges the phone, if I plug it in THEN turn on the battery it takes power from the phone.




Being out of date with recent technology makes me feels really old :/ but indeed USB-C would be an interesting implement for the audio. I have a feeling thought, it would be slower to implement it than other technologies like smartphones/camera/laptop etc IMO


----------



## Aegruin

I couldn't hear much difference on IEMs with Xbass but gave a HD6XX a try. It significantly increases the bass. This is Xbass 'on' and 'off';


----------



## Bykhoff

What's the best portable music player to pair with the Micro iDSD if I want to use the player only as source of the music?


----------



## technobear

bykhoff said:


> What's the best portable music player to pair with the Micro iDSD if I want to use the player only as source of the music?




Shanling M1

Sony A15

There are more expensive options but they don't add anything much in this use case.


----------



## Bykhoff

technobear said:


> Shanling M1
> 
> Sony A15
> 
> There are more expensive options but they don't add anything much in this use case.


 

 Thanks.


----------



## rickyleelee

Don't iems have worse bass than headphones? normal? yes open back like akg leaks bass.


----------



## shuto77

bykhoff said:


> What's the best portable music player to pair with the Micro iDSD if I want to use the player only as source of the music?




You could also get a cheap Android phone and USB Audio Player Pro. You also gain the ability stream from Tidal and Spotify - something you can't do on a DAP costing less than $500 (the Cayin N5). 

Some Android phones are a little dodgy, some work great. Just have to do your research.


----------



## PabloSRT8

bykhoff said:


> What's the best portable music player to pair with the Micro iDSD if I want to use the player only as source of the music?



I just got the xdp-100r but the dongle USB cable just came in NZ I haven't tried it yet. I'll let you know. I can tell you on its own with the fostex th900 is no where near as good a the MacBook pro ifi micro fostex setup.


----------



## Bykhoff

pablosrt8 said:


> I just got the xdp-100r but the dongle USB cable just came in NZ I haven't tried it yet. I'll let you know. I can tell you on its own with the fostex th900 is no where near as good a the MacBook pro ifi micro fostex setup.


 

 Thanks. Looking forward to hear  how it compares to the MacBook pro ifi micro fostex setup. Also what does NZ mean?


----------



## Bykhoff

shuto77 said:


> You could also get a cheap Android phone and USB Audio Player Pro. You also gain the ability stream from Tidal and Spotify - something you can't do on a DAP costing less than $500 (the Cayin N5).
> 
> Some Android phones are a little dodgy, some work great. Just have to do your research.


 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## PabloSRT8

bykhoff said:


> Thanks. Looking forward to hear  how it compares to the MacBook pro ifi micro fostex setup. Also what does NZ mean?




NZ is what iPhone thinks I meant when I was trying to type "and" lol


----------



## PabloSRT8

bykhoff said:


> Thanks. Looking forward to hear  how it compares to the MacBook pro ifi micro fostex setup. Also what does NZ mean?





UPDATE: sounds just as good, my fault with wrong settings!!
Somehow the iem sensitivity button moved and made the headphones sound really bad.

I don't understand, I'm really disappointed right now.
I set the Pioneer XDP-100R to DoP, I was getting the aqua color led when playing dsd but the sound...
It was piercing through my ears.
Compared to the MacBook, it sounded terrible.
I thought a transport was a transport and nothing else.
I was also playing Phill Collins "I don't care anymore" 24/96 and on the Mac it gave me goosebumps, on the xdp it gave me ear pain which I still feel as I'm writing this.
I don't know if is something I did wrong, I don't know if Audirvana has some kind of eq/filter on Mac which makes it sound better; but as of now I'm returning this thing.
Or maybe there is a different app I should try... but I can't because the damn thing already died...
I really want a dedicated dap, but it's not working out.


----------



## Bykhoff

pablosrt8 said:


> I don't understand, I'm really disappointed right now.
> I set the Pioneer XDP-100R to DoP, I was getting the aqua color led when playing dsd but the sound...
> It was piercing through my ears.
> Compared to the MacBook, it sounded terrible.
> ...


 

 It would be great if the iFi team could respond to this.


----------



## PabloSRT8

bykhoff said:


> It would be great if the iFi team could respond to this.



Now that, would be great!


----------



## Strauss95

I've used my iPod Touch 6th gen with my iDSD Micro and the combo works great. Absolutely plug and play with the Apple CCK cable. That combo sounds exactly the same as compared to my desktop PC setup with which I also use my iDSD with. 
  
 I'm also a dedicated Spotify user, which was why I bought the iPod for my portable player. It was by far the cheapest option for a Spotify capable portable DAP. I just download all my favorite music at home when I'm connected to my wifi, then I can listen on the go. 
  
 I honestly don't use the iDSD often with it, as it's a little too big for me for portable use. But I bought the CCK cable just so I could use it every now and then and have found that it works awesome. Most of the time I just stack my E12 amp with the iPod. Not quite the same level of sound quality, but it gets the job done in a much smaller package. 
  
 One of my favorite things about the iDSD is it's versatility. It's so nice having the option to take my desktop DAC/AMP out on the go with me if/when I want to. When stacked with my iPod I get the exact same level of amazing sound quality as I do when I'm at home using my PC. Very cool. Combine that with the 3 gain levels, and the IEMatch, and you have a deadly piece of kit that works perfect for everything from sensitive IEM's on up to hard to drive monster cans.


----------



## PabloSRT8

Update:
Pioneer xdp-100r to micro idsd to th900mk2 sound just as good as the MacBook Pro in same setup.
Somehow I hit the iem button and it made the headphone sound harsh.


----------



## PabloSRT8

bykhoff said:


> Thanks. Looking forward to hear  how it compares to the MacBook pro ifi micro fostex setup. Also what does NZ mean?



I made an update, xdp-100r is just as good as playing from my MacBook Pro.
The only thing that's annoying (correct me if I'm wrong) I have to unplug the USB cable to make sure the idsd doesn't drain the xdp. Is that correct?


----------



## BillsonChang007

pablosrt8 said:


> I made an update, xdp-100r is just as good as playing from my MacBook Pro.
> The only thing that's annoying (correct me if I'm wrong) I have to unplug the USB cable to make sure the idsd doesn't drain the xdp. Is that correct?



If I recall correctly, iFi released a software option for which the unit won't drain device's battery 

Otherwise, yes. Turning on the unit before connecting will force it to use in battery mode


----------



## Bykhoff

pablosrt8 said:


> I made an update, xdp-100r is just as good as playing from my MacBook Pro.
> The only thing that's annoying (correct me if I'm wrong) I have to unplug the USB cable to make sure the idsd doesn't drain the xdp. Is that correct?


 

 I'm not sure but the way I understand it, if you turn the iDSD before plugging it in to the device it will run off of it's own battery. If you turn it on after plugging it into the device, it will use the devices battery life. Finally, if you leave it plugged in after turning it off, I believe it will drain the xdp's battery. This is me just thinking logically.
  
 Though, when I leave it plugged into to my MacBook after turning it off, it seems to only charge if I have my laptop open, as well. When the laptop's open, there's a blue light. When it's closed, the iDSD led doesn't have a color,


----------



## Korabeu

Hi,
  
 for those of you who might be interested, the links for the burn-in files are broken now:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/burn-in-like-a-pro/


----------



## TjPhysicist

korabeu said:


> Hi,
> 
> for those of you who might be interested, the links for the burn-in files are broken now:
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/burn-in-like-a-pro/


 
 wow i didn't know about these...damn hope they come back soon.


----------



## BillsonChang007

For those using the iDSD with a dap/smartphone here's something you can read up to;
http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/

Quoted from the page
"and sub-version 5.2B:

2) This is strictly for Smartphone users ONLY, there is no other reason to use 5.2B on the micro iDSD BL & micro iDSD.
• The micro iDSD BL & micro iDSD will try to recharge while in Sleep Mode (e.g. when connected to a PC). If connected to a Smartphone which is ‘seen’ as a computer, it will recharge via the Smartphone.
• 5.2B disables the Sleep Mode within the micro iDSD BL & micro iDSD; hence it will no longer try to recharge during Sleep Mode and flatten the Smartphone’s battery."

Hope it helps
Bilson


----------



## TjPhysicist

billsonchang007 said:


> For those using the iDSD with a dap/smartphone here's something you can read up to;
> http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
> 
> Quoted from the page
> ...


 
 Oh I totally forgot about that. SInce I no longer use it with smartphone, you think it's possible to DOWNgrade back to 5.2 regular?


----------



## technobear

tjphysicist said:


> billsonchang007 said:
> 
> 
> > For those using the iDSD with a dap/smartphone here's something you can read up to;
> ...




Any of the applicable firmware versions can be installed at any time. They are each complete in of themselves and totally replace whatever is already there.


----------



## Maxpain

Hello,
  
 I want to use the idsd micro with the jbl lsr 305. Has anyone tried this combination? Is it a good pairing?
  
 Would I be able to use micro's analogue volume control if I switch to the pre amp section?
  
 Cheers


----------



## sandalaudio

maxpain said:


> Hello,
> 
> I want to use the idsd micro with the jbl lsr 305. Has anyone tried this combination? Is it a good pairing?
> 
> Would I be able to use micro's analogue volume control if I switch to the pre amp section?


 
  
 There is a little switch on the bottom to change the RCA output between fixed and variable volume, so that should work for you.
  
 One thing you should worry about a bit is how long RCA cables you would run from the micro IDSD to the JBLs.
 1-2m would probably be OK, but anything longer and you can get a bit of interference depending on the cable construction and quality.
  
 I had this issue on my KRK and Genelec monitors if I used RCA instead of XLR cables. Long RCA cables picked up noise from nearby electronics and fluorescent lights. It even picked up AM radio signals in some venues.


----------



## Aegruin

maxpain said:


> Hello,
> 
> I want to use the idsd micro with the jbl lsr 305. Has anyone tried this combination? Is it a good pairing?
> 
> ...


 
 I did. In Direct mode, the sound became kinda more mid-oriented than my other sources specially. Pre-amplifier mode made it a little warmer. And yes you can use the volume knob. iDSD is compatible if you like mid oriented sound than a boomy bass.


----------



## TheoS53

Got this sucker in for review today. 

Initial thoughts: is it even possible for portable audio to sound this good? Or perhaps more importantly, can portable audio get any significantly better than this?


----------



## Maxpain

aegruin said:


> I did. In Direct mode, the sound became kinda more mid-oriented than my other sources specially. Pre-amplifier mode made it a little warmer. And yes you can use the volume knob. iDSD is compatible if you like mid oriented sound than a boomy bass.


 
 What do you mean when you say mid oriented? Like...light sounded? Too thin? You mean that I would have better sound quality using the idsd without the pre amp feature? Only as a dac?


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> What do you mean when you say mid oriented? Like...light sounded? Too thin? You mean that I would have better sound quality using the idsd without the pre amp feature? Only as a dac?


 
  
 What he meant presumably is the midrange emphasis.


----------



## Aegruin

ifi audio said:


> What he meant presumably is the midrange emphasis.


 
 Yes. Exactly.


----------



## Aegruin

maxpain said:


> What do you mean when you say mid oriented? Like...light sounded? Too thin? You mean that I would have better sound quality using the idsd without the pre amp feature? Only as a dac?


 
  
 There wasn't any problem about the sound quality between modes. Just the sound signature changes a little.


----------



## Maxpain

Oh i see, I am still debating with my self if I would use the jbl's with the micro. I've been using headphones for over a year now but I would like to see how will the micro play with speakers too...


----------



## bms44974

@Maxpain: I have used and thoroughly enjoyed the original iDAC (v1) with the JBL 305s for a few years now. I can only imagine that the added versatility and performance of the iDSD will pair just as well (or better).
  
 Cheers... Brian


----------



## Maxpain

bms44974 said:


> @Maxpain: I have used and thoroughly enjoyed the original iDAC (v1) with the JBL 305s for a few years now. I can only imagine that the added versatility and performance of the iDSD will pair just as well (or better).
> 
> Cheers... Brian


 
 Thanks man,
  
 I have listened to a lot of montiros and hifi speakers at that price range and those jbl's are in the middle of the two sides imho,
  
 Cheers


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> Oh i see, I am still debating with my self if I would use the jbl's with the micro. I've been using headphones for over a year now but I would like to see how will the micro play with speakers too...


 
  
 Others have posted on their practical experiences, for example here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4845#post_12100613
  
 You can use the search function to find more.
  
 The difference between "direct" mode and "preamp" mode is precisely what it says.
  
 That is, in direct mode the signal on the RCA's comes directly from the DAC's analogue stage, like it would if you had dedicated DAC with line-outs.
  
 In preamp mode the signal on the RCA's additionally adds a volume control and a buffer/preamplifier section, like you would have if you combined a traditional line output DAC with an external preamplifier.
  
 You can see the signal flow on the block diagram for the iDSD micro (black & silver) here:
  

  
 The preamp in the iDSD micro uses a very high quality J-Fet input integrated amplifier circuit (OV2627 made for iFi) designed to drive 600 ohm loads with very low distortion (< 0.00005% THD & N with a 600 ohm Load). 
  
 What's added is a very good sounding pot in front of this amplifier. This is designed and made for iFi by factory founded by people that worked for Noble (still considered the best high end potentiomenter by many) when Noble closed down. It was selected for it's superior sound quality over similar items from other sources.
  
 Arguably the same linestage is shared with the headphone section, it drives the headphone buffer which is needed to provide extra current for the headphones and if preamp mode is selected, it also drives the RCA iutputs.
  
 You can find dedicated "line stage" preamplifiers and "line controllers" costing serious amounts using the same circuitry and often not even as high grade op-amp's. 
  
 For example, a German made $13,800 line preamplifier uses exactly the same kind of circuit, but with amplifier IC's that have more than 10 times the distortion compared to the one in the iDSD micro. 
  
 We simply didn't skimp. You really do get a high end linestage integrated in the iDSD micro and you save the money and sonic impact of one RCA interconnect cable.
  
 In order to maximize performance it is best to set the gain on the active monitors to the lowest possible and use the gain trim (if present) to set elevated normal listening levels to happen when the iDSD micro is in normal mode and the volume control is around 12 o'clock.
  

  
 For a more "scientific" approach you can use a 440Hz/-20dB FS tone, set iDSD micro volume control to 3 o'clock and set the SPL at the listening position using a SPL meter to 82dB for one speaker using the trim on the monitor.
  
 The result will then approximate studio condition and THX recommendations for playback.


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> That is, in direct mode the signal on the RCA's comes directly from the DAC's analogue stage, like it would if you had dedicated DAC with line-outs.
> 
> In preamp mode the signal on the RCA's additionally adds a volume control and a buffer/preamplifier section, like you would have if you combined a traditional line output DAC with an external preamplifier.


 
  
 I was using the silver micro iDSD in direct RCA line out mode onto my main audio system, but I personally preferred the sound of micro iDAC2 so I decided to buy that in place of the micro iDSD.
 I thought the micro iDAC2 felt a bit more gentler and transparent without having a very direct analytical edge that I felt with the micro iDSD.
  
 What do you think is the main design element that contributes to the sound signature difference between the micro iDSD and iDAC2, and would the micro iDSD BL be different once again? (I haven't listened to that yet).


----------



## Maxpain

ifi audio said:


> Others have posted on their practical experiences, for example here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4845#post_12100613
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your helping asnwer! Only one more question, you refer to set the micro's volume control to 12 and keep it in normal mode. Isn't normal mode made for the amplifier section of the idsd? I had the impression that when I connect the micro with rca outputs the amplifier is not being used. Does the pre amp section of the micro uses the eco-normal-turbo settings too?
  
 Cheers


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> Thank you for your helping asnwer! Only one more question, you refer to set the micro's volume control to 12 and keep it in normal mode. Isn't normal mode made for the amplifier section of the idsd? I had the impression that when I connect the micro with rca outputs the amplifier is not being used. Does the pre amp section of the micro uses the eco-normal-turbo settings too?
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 What we meant is normal listening level, when the volume knob is between 12 and 3 o'clock.


----------



## Maxpain

ifi audio said:


> What we meant is normal listening level, when the volume knob is between 12 and 3 o'clock.


 
 I see! I am going to try the micro with the jbl's then and post my impressions!
  
 Thank you for your help,
  
 Cheers!


----------



## iFi audio

maxpain said:


> I see! I am going to try the micro with the jbl's then and post my impressions!
> 
> Thank you for your help,
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 Sure, anytime.


----------



## Condocondor (Jun 15, 2018)

.


----------



## Feyded1020

Does anyone here happen to know any way to reset the iDSD, mine arrived and doesn't work it would seem. 

I made some videos of what it was doing with descriptions in the video title area. 

I've already opened a ticket and am awaiting a response but was curious if anyone knew a workaround/reset. 


https://youtu.be/qtsMhx1VZTQ


https://youtu.be/2KQILkgGIdE

https://youtu.be/9r6PLHnrdfc

Edit: Ive sent the device back and will be ordering a new one as I have faith and understand 'lemons' still exist no matter who makes it. Hoping the second one gives me years of use.


----------



## iFi audio

sandalaudio said:


> What do you think is the main design element that contributes to the sound signature difference between the micro iDSD and iDAC2, and would the micro iDSD BL be different once again? (I haven't listened to that yet).


 
  
 It is notoriously difficult to correlate subjective sonic changes to objective differences, be they in measured performance or correlation to circuit/part details.
  
 However, if we have to engage in a specific guess, the key aspects are the Class A line out buffer - which operates single ended, in "deep class A" with (for a line out) very high quiescent current - and the Elna Silmic Powersupply capacitors, which give for want of a better term, a soft, silky sound.
  


> Originally Posted by *sandalaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> and would the micro iDSD BL be different once again? (I haven't listened to that yet).


 
  
 Yes, the iDSD Micro Black Edition remains focused on the portable use and this requires some compromises. You will not find "deep single ended class A" output stages or Elna Silmic capacitors.
  
 In fact, for a headphone system, the basic design topology of an iDSD micro (silver or Black) and an iDAC 2 micro plus iCAN (and iCAN SE) from DAC to headphone jack are identical. The difference is in actual circuit solutions.
  
 Each stage of pure desktop iDAC 2 & iCAN SE  system operates in class A, uses significant discrete circuitry in the signal path and very "high end audio" components extensively. 
  
 The transportable 'integrated' iDSD micro omits Class A operation to extend battery life and stuffing so much into a fairly small package limits component quality, though especially in the Back Label we have maxed it out as much as its enclosure and concept allows.
  
 In the end, the two alternatives share more in common sonically than they don't. But differences exist, even if the objective measured performance between all options and combinations remains so close, one would be hard-pressed to accept that the measurable differences are enough to cause audibility.
  
 Clearly we still have not figured out to measure the parameters that are responsible for "sound quality".


----------



## howdy

Has anyone compared the Hugo2 vs. BL iDSD in a blind test volume matched?


----------



## DomieMic65

ifi audio said:


> It is notoriously difficult to correlate subjective sonic changes to objective differences, be they in measured performance or correlation to circuit/part details.
> 
> However, if we have to engage in a specific guess, the key aspects are the Class A line out buffer - which operates single ended, in "deep class A" with (for a line out) very high quiescent current - and the Elna Silmic Powersupply capacitors, which give for want of a better term, a soft, silky sound.
> 
> ...


 
 are there any plans for Black iDAC2?
 from what i understand from your writing is that you suggest the iDAC2 for desktop non portable use more than the black?
 Thnx!


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the very detailed and clear explanation.
  
 I do notice a significant sonic difference, and I am hard pressed to find any line level USB DAC that can surpass the micro iDAC2.
  
 I know iFi's good sound quality doesn't come purely by coincidence or by random accident, so I was curious about where the effort was placed to go beyond the textbook circuits.


----------



## Joseph Lin

feyded1020 said:


> Does anyone here happen to know any way to reset the iDSD, mine arrived and doesn't work it would seem.
> 
> I made some videos of what it was doing with descriptions in the video title area.
> 
> ...


 

 My first BL iDSD has exactly the same symptom when it first ran down the power and the music was cut off. I tried to charge it overnight but it displayed alternating Blue-Red led even the second day. I measured how much current was going into the device and it was 0mah. Since it was new so I returned it. Now I am very scare of letting it run down the battery. If you are still in the return period, my suggestion is to return it.


----------



## Vartan

Does the RCA line out when set to direct on the iDSD BL operates in pure class A?


----------



## iFi audio

vartan said:


> Does the RCA line out when set to direct on the iDSD BL operates in pure class A?


 
  
 This depends upon the load. The line out is driven by an integrated amplifier circuit with 2.2mA quiescent current. Some of this will be the "class A" current for the output stage. It is hard to be sure just how much, but lets presume it is 1mA as an educated guess based on the general performance. 
  
 As the output stage is push-pull, +/-2mA peak current is available with 1mA quiescent current.
  
 So as long as the complex load impedance remains above around 2 kOhm across the audio range, the output remains in push-pull class A. 
  
 However, the audio performance of the integrated amplifier circuit will be degraded before class A is left, it is better to keep the load impedance at >= 10 kOhm and to use low capacitance cabling.
  
 This again holds true for pretty much any DAC/preamp using integrated amplifier circuits without added buffers.
  
 By comparison, the special discrete buffer in the iDAC2 micro operates at around 7mA single-ended and places by the nature of it's circuit design the output stage of the integrated amplifier circuit also into single ended class A.
  
 So in comparison, the circuit operates fully single ended and remains in class A for loads as low as 400 ohms and shows no performance degradation with loads as 600 ohms, as the actual load of the integrated amplifier circuity in this case will be around 120 kOhm, ensuring best linearity.


----------



## chawya22

I'm having a problem where the first second or so of music is muted when I manually switch tracks. My source is a MacBook Pro (10.12.3) running Audirvana Plus 2.6.5, Tidal Desktop 2.1.2.177 and the iFi FW is 5.2. If I play tracks consecutively, all is well, just when I replay or skip to the next track. I did try a search but I guess I didn't choose the right wording if this problem has been discussed before.


----------



## DomieMic65

chawya22 said:


> I'm having a problem where the first second or so of music is muted when I manually switch tracks. My source is a MacBook Pro (10.12.3) running Audirvana Plus 2.6.5, Tidal Desktop 2.1.2.177 and the iFi FW is 5.2. If I play tracks consecutively, all is well, just when I replay or skip to the next track. I did try a search but I guess I didn't choose the right wording.


 
 I guess this has to do with the latest firmware
 It started happening after 5.2 was launched.. may be a biger buffer? I don't know if I am using the correct term beacause I have no technical knowledge
 in my case it happens some(many) times but if i go back and play again the track it's OK


----------



## tinnitize

Hi,
if you use Foobar, there is a plug-in named 'Pregap' to download and add. You can adjust the time you want to hesitate until start to play. Using jRiver, there this feature is integrated.

It would be nice if ifi includes this information in their recommendations how to install the driver.

Cheers, tinnitize


----------



## AutumnCrown

I noticed my unit's light was white, which I've never seen before. Apparently this means DXD. Why would it be doing this? I just plugged it into my macbook and streamed Tidal, same as usual. Does it matter?


----------



## tinnitize

chawya22 said:


> I'm having a problem where the first second or so of music is muted when I manually switch tracks. My source is a MacBook Pro (10.12.3) running Audirvana Plus 2.6.5, Tidal Desktop 2.1.2.177 and the iFi FW is 5.2. If I play tracks consecutively, all is well, just when I replay or skip to the next track. I did try a search but I guess I didn't choose the right wording if this problem has been discussed before.


 
 Hello chawya22,
  
 my post yesterday was for you - sorry for not to quote, I am not versatile in posting yet!
  
 When you stop playing music for a short time, the iDSD micro falls into stand by. Starting again it will need a second and a halfish to 'power up' again. As a work around you should install the plug-in 'Pregap' (using Foobar) or use the feature in jRiver. Other programs may have similar properties.
  
 And again: It would be helpful if ifi included this information with their recommendations how to install the iDSD driver.
  
 Hope, this helps.
  
 tinnitize


----------



## chawya22

tinnitize said:


> Hello chawya22,
> 
> my post yesterday was for you - sorry for not to quote, I am not versatile in posting yet!
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the suggestion but in my case, it's not a case of "idle stand-by mode", I'm basically trying to listen to the same track again or I don't want to hear the current track and want to skip to the next track or start the whole album again. I have three other DAC/DAPs and one other dedicated DAC but none, exhibit the same behavior. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, Foobar2000 isn't available for the Mac and even if it were, I wouldn't switch from the excellent Audirvana Plus app to accommodate a problem that seems specific to the Micro. As also stated, the problem occurs with Tidal Desktop too. Maybe iFi knows what setting changes I should make. Again, thank you for your attempt to help.


----------



## BillsonChang007

chawya22 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion but in my case, it's not a case of "idle stand-by mode", I'm basically trying to listen to the same track again or I don't want to hear the current track and want to skip to the next track or start the whole album again. I have three other DAC/DAPs and one other dedicated DAC but none, exhibit the same behavior. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, Foobar2000 isn't available for the Mac and even if it were, I wouldn't switch from the excellent Audirvana Plus app to accommodate a problem that seems specific to the Micro. As also stated, the problem occurs with Tidal Desktop too. Maybe iFi knows what setting changes I should make. Again, thank you for your attempt to help.




Try turning on the power before connecting to ur laptop? 

Best regards
Bilson


----------



## chawya22

billsonchang007 said:


> Try turning on the power before connecting to ur laptop?
> 
> Best regards
> Bilson


 

 Thanks for the suggestion, I just tried powering on before connecting to my Mac but with the same outcome. Just for clarification, I'm not walking away and the micro goes into standby mode, I'm just trying to manually select a track, without the beginning of the track being muted. It's as if there is a buffering problem. I've had my Micro for over 2 years and never had a problem previously but I recently updated to OS X Sierra, so I don't know if that should be the suspect. It's not a deal breaker and only occurs if I interrupt play and switch tracks or select a new album. Other than that, it plays flawlessly.


----------



## DomieMic65

Guys it's a specific characteristic of the Micro.. it's not a mater of a software workaround!
 I notised it started to happen after the last fw update and soon after it was fixed because of some loud noises there were occuring after sample rate or DSD playback if I remember well!
 Another DAC I have in these days for oudition does not do this at all regardles of player!
 For me it's not a big deal but I wish it didn't happen!


----------



## iclickjohn

I've got a couple questions...
 1. In which direction do I put the polarity? And a brief description of wth that is for. Not using rca, only usb and mini jack.
 2. Is this device considered on par with class A amps? 
 3. No matter what format of music I am playing the filter button makes no difference, the bass makes no difference and the 3d makes no difference. Something to do with DSD? (which I have plenty going through) 
 4. Occasionally one side blanks out (USB). Turn unit off, remove usb and reconnect, turn unit on,  music resumes on both sides. 
  
  
 I do sincerely love the iDSD Micro...Love how it is transportable. 
  
 Could anyone recommend the best setting when listing to FLAC, DSD through Sony Hap-S1 into> (via USB) Micro iDSD into> HiFiMan HE-560s (which require a LOT of power)?
  
 I have been using it on Turbo, -1 polarity, bit perfect, IE match off, bass off, 3d off.


----------



## BillsonChang007

iclickjohn said:


> I've got a couple questions...
> 1. In which direction do I put the polarity? And a brief description of wth that is for. Not using rca, only usb and mini jack.
> 2. Is this device considered on par with class A amps?
> 3. No matter what format of music I am playing the filter button makes no difference, the bass makes no difference and the 3d makes no difference. Something to do with DSD? (which I have plenty going through)
> ...



Heya, 

1. You can read about polarity here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-design-the-meaty-monsters-are-flying-out-page-95/855#post_10643380

2. iFi Micro iDSD (BL) is a amp/DAC. I would say the DAC side is really good but the amplifier part is average. Two combined together, it's really good. I find it worth investing in a better amp if you wish to get the most out of it say iFi iCan. I'm using Garage1217 amps myself.

3. 3D & XBass do alter the sound a little bit but not by a huge margin. For instance, the XBass boost mostly the sub-bass where most headphones are generally bad at. 3D gives the soundstage a gentle push to be wider but in exchange for brighter sound. I find the 3D do more significant changes to sound compared to XBass to most* headphones.

Hope it helps
Bilson


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Bass tests and fun physics vids coming soon.


----------



## DomieMic65

iclickjohn said:


> I have been using it on Turbo, -1 polarity, bit perfect, IE match off, bass off, 3d offΐ


 
 With what headphones are you using it and you need to use it in Turbo?
 I never used turbo in any cans I used the Micro with.. 
 I mostly use eco (HD25Alu, Sine) and Normal (HD600)
 Generally I think the lower the gain the better (as long as you get the volume you want of course or you have very ineficient cans)
 I also almost never use 3D and xBass


----------



## iclickjohn

domiemic65 said:


> With what headphones are you using it and you need to use it in Turbo?
> I never used turbo in any cans I used the Micro with..
> I mostly use eco (HD25Alu, Sine) and Normal (HD600)
> Generally I think the lower the gain the better (as long as you get the volume you want of course or you have very ineficient cans)
> I also almost never use 3D and xBass



Hifiman HE-560 but I guess I was feeling a little pinched in the normal mode at max volume sometimes. Those 560's do require some power. I may try normal today and not worry about Max volume to see if I could live with that.


----------



## Maxpain

Hello there,
  
 I need to go back from some more help,
  
 I have succefuly connected my idsd micro with rca to my vintage marantz amp. When I use the idsd with the pre amp mode on i can control the volume level both from the idsd and the amp.
  
 What is the optimal setting for this? Should i keep them both at the same level,lets say 12' or should one of them be at 100%?
  
  
 Thanks in advance,
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## cav1sa

maxpain said:


> What is the optimal setting for this? Should i keep them both at the same level,lets say 12' or should one of them be at 100%?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> ...


 
 AFAIK it's optimal to skip the amp in the micro and only use the second amp. Flip the switch on the bottom of the dac to "direct" (i think) so it feeds DAC output directly, w/o bypassing the amp. Be careful to lower main amp volume first!


----------



## Maxpain

Some folks say that there are benefits from using the pre amp section of the micro. I just dont know wich option is the best.


----------



## iclickjohn

Can the iDSD be charged with a USB (phone part that plugs into the wall) from USB to Wall? I'm having trouble charging it with my computer USB.
 Another question for someone that may know, in Turbo mode, will it use more power than what it receives to charge (at the same time, I guess)? I've been listening for a few hours via computer and it just went dead with blinking red indicating dead battery. (and yes, I need Turbo mode) 
 Are there some situations that the computer will not charge the ifi?


----------



## cav1sa

iclickjohn said:


> (..)in Turbo mode, will it use more power than what it receives to charge (at the same time, I guess)?


 
 I remember reading somewhere that in Turbo mode it uses more than it gets over USB, which means it wouldn't be able to run in turbo non-stop.
 FWIW I ran out of power once I think.. Normal mode worked fine for me using power-hungry planars


----------



## cav1sa

maxpain said:


> Some folks say that there are benefits from using the pre amp section of the micro. I just dont know wich option is the best.


 
 Yep, I'd consider using it if I needed xbass or 3d holo, but since I have these on my amp too, it's not a problem for me.


----------



## BillsonChang007

iclickjohn said:


> Can the iDSD be charged with a USB (phone part that plugs into the wall) from USB to Wall? I'm having trouble charging it with my computer USB.
> Another question for someone that may know, in Turbo mode, will it use more power than what it receives to charge (at the same time, I guess)? I've been listening for a few hours via computer and it just went dead with blinking red indicating dead battery. (and yes, I need Turbo mode)
> Are there some situations that the computer will not charge the ifi?



In turbo mode, it uses more power than it charges so its normal to run out of battery even when charging. And yes you can charge the iFi wif USB to wall. Not a must to use device to charge. Treat the charging like smartphones' battery 




cav1sa said:


> Yep, I'd consider using it if I needed xbass or 3d holo, but since I have these on my amp too, it's not a problem for me.




I would still prefer not to double amp. Try it yourself maybe? One wif direct and the other with pre-amp and see which you like better. No harm xD 

Hope it helps
Bilson


----------



## earfonia

iclickjohn said:


> Can the iDSD be charged with a USB (phone part that plugs into the wall) from USB to Wall? I'm having trouble charging it with my computer USB.
> Another question for someone that may know, in Turbo mode, will it use more power than what it receives to charge (at the same time, I guess)? I've been listening for a few hours via computer and it just went dead with blinking red indicating dead battery. (and yes, I need Turbo mode)
> Are there some situations that the computer will not charge the ifi?


 
  
 Yes, it can use normal USB charger. It only draw less than 1.1 A.
 If you don't need Turbo mode, it is not recommended to use it. Draw a lot of power, makes the iDSD hot, also has slightly higher noise and THD than Normal and Eco mode.
  

  

  
  
 Operating temperature at Turbo Mode can reach over 50 degree Celsius:

  
  
 Here is a detail review about the iDSD Black-Label:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/833933/ifi-micro-idsd-black-label-in-depth-review


----------



## sandalaudio

chawya22 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, I just tried powering on before connecting to my Mac but with the same outcome. Just for clarification, I'm not walking away and the micro goes into standby mode, I'm just trying to manually select a track, without the beginning of the track being muted. It's as if there is a buffering problem. I've had my Micro for over 2 years and never had a problem previously but I recently updated to OS X Sierra, so I don't know if that should be the suspect. It's not a deal breaker and only occurs if I interrupt play and switch tracks or select a new album. Other than that, it plays flawlessly.


 
  
 I was curious about this, so I gave it a try on my Mac, and I didn't experience the same issues you reported.
  
 It's a mid 2012 Macbook Air running 10.12.3 (current), and Audirvana 2.6.5. My micro iDSD BL was updated to the latest Firmware 5.2.
 I tried skipping between tracks, going back to the start of the track, previous track, etc, but they all started exactly on the dot with nothing missing or cut off.
 Tried PCM and DSD, Integer mode, etc. with the same results. I'm wondering what's different about mine v.s. your configuration.


----------



## chawya22

sandalaudio said:


> I was curious about this, so I gave it a try on my Mac, and I didn't experience the same issues you reported.
> 
> It's a mid 2012 Macbook Air running 10.12.3 (current), and Audirvana 2.6.5. My micro iDSD BL was updated to the latest Firmware 5.2.
> I tried skipping between tracks, going back to the start of the track, previous track, etc, but they all started exactly on the dot with nothing missing or cut off.
> Tried PCM and DSD, Direct mode, Integer mode, etc. with the same results. I'm wondering what's different about mine v.s. your configuration.


 

 I also would like to know. Just to add some credibility to my problem, @earfonia's *review* of the new Black Label, experienced the same problem but found it to be worst with the newer Micro model. The fact that you're running, basically a similar setup as mine, gives me hope that it might be a setting issue. I guess you did the system hack to get Audirvana to work in Direct mode with Sierra(?) The only other thing I could possibly attribute your success and my fail is you have a SSD while I have a HDD, which might point to a buffering problem.


----------



## BillsonChang007

chawya22 said:


> I also would like to know. Just to add some credibility to my problem, @earfonia
> 's *review* of the new Black Label, experienced the same problem but found it to be worst with the newer Micro model. The fact that you're running, basically a similar setup as mine, gives me hope that it might be a setting issue. I guess you did the system hack to get Audirvana to work in Direct mode with Sierra(?) The only other thing I could possibly attribute your success and my fail is you have a SSD while I have a HDD, which might point to a buffering problem.




Not a full tech geek or whatsoever. SSD is indeed a lot faster than HDD but since music files are probably 30mb+ at best for WAV and maybe 100mb+ for DSD, I doubt harddrive would impact that much. 

I do previously had the delay problem on both SSD and HDD but I forgot what I did and there were no such problems anymore but I am pretty sure I made changes to firmware on Mac/Windows OS. 

To add it, I am connecting my iDSD to my lappy as of now through a USB Hub and things play well. Then again, I switch it off when I am not using to avoid battery drain

Hope it helps
Bilson


----------



## chawya22

billsonchang007 said:


> Not a full tech geek or whatsoever. SSD is indeed a lot faster than HDD but since music files are probably 30mb+ at best for WAV and maybe 100mb+ for DSD, I doubt harddrive would impact that much.
> 
> I do previously had the delay problem on both SSD and HDD but I forgot what I did and there were no such problems anymore but I am pretty sure I made changes to firmware on Mac/Windows OS.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm sure I'll have one of those Ah-Ha moments one day but I just posted the question, just in case someone else (or iFi support) had figured it out. I probably should just open a ticket.


----------



## sandalaudio

chawya22 said:


> I also would like to know. Just to add some credibility to my problem, @earfonia's *review* of the new Black Label, experienced the same problem but found it to be worst with the newer Micro model. The fact that you're running, basically a similar setup as mine, gives me hope that it might be a setting issue. I guess you did the system hack to get Audirvana to work in Direct mode with Sierra(?) The only other thing I could possibly attribute your success and my fail is you have a SSD while I have a HDD, which might point to a buffering problem.


 
  
 Sorry. I was wrong about the "Direct Mode". When I paused the playback and turned on "Direct Mode", then resumed play, the music resumes fine. However, if I stopped the playback and turned on "Direct Mode" then press play, I get the error message. That probably means it was never actually on Direct Mode. I haven't done any system hacks to make Direct Mode work on Sierra.
  
 In any case I still don't experience the track skip/back blanking issues, so can't explain what's happening on your system.
  
 I tried playing files from the internal SSD and also from a network NAS, and both don't have the buffering issue, so it's probably not disk speed related.
 I also tried changing a lot of settings on my Audirvana but didn't seem to produce that issue. Since you are having same issues on Tidal, I don't think it's software dependent. Have you tried iTunes to see what happens?


----------



## gr8soundz

sandalaudio said:


> Sorry. I was wrong about the "Direct Mode". When I paused the playback and turned on "Direct Mode", then resumed play, the music resumes fine. However, if I stopped the playback and turned on "Direct Mode" then press play, I get the error message. That probably means it was never actually on Direct Mode.


 
  
 The Micro should be powered down when switching between direct and preamp modes. IIRC, doing so while its on can cause problems including (at worst) damage to the Micro.


----------



## chawya22

gr8soundz said:


> The Micro should be powered down when switching between direct and preamp modes. IIRC, doing so while its on can cause problems including (at worst) damage to the Micro.


 

 Direct Mode is a function in Audirvana Plus settings and basically bypasses internal audio processing, not directly related to the micro hardware. Sorry for the partial hijack of the thread.


----------



## gr8soundz

chawya22 said:


> Direct Mode is a function in Audirvana Plus settings and basically bypasses internal audio processing, not directly related to the micro hardware. Sorry for the partial hijack of the thread.


 
  
 Thanks for clarifying. Thought you were talking about the direct/preamp switch underneath the Micro.


----------



## shuto77

I apologize if this has been asked already (I did a search, and couldn't find the answer). How do I connect this to my Android phone via OTG and have it not drain the phone's battery? I never had this issue with my old Oppo HA-2 or Chord Mojo.

 Thanks!


----------



## iclickjohn

I think it you turn the iFi on prior to connection, it puts it into battery mode and doesn't drain there battery. I could be wrong but I think that is what I read.


----------



## technobear

shuto77 said:


> I apologize if this has been asked already (I did a search, and couldn't find the answer). How do I connect this to my Android phone via OTG and have it not drain the phone's battery? I never had this issue with my old Oppo HA-2 or Chord Mojo.
> 
> 
> Thanks!




The iDSD will always drain the phone battery when the iDSD is turned OFF.

When the iDSD is turned ON, you have two options:

1) Firmware 5.2 with sleep mode - will drain the phone while sleeping

2) Firmware 5.2B without sleep mode - will not drain phone but iDSD will go flat sooner.

...and yes, you must turn on iDSD before connecting to phone so that iDSD uses battery mode.


----------



## BillsonChang007

shuto77 said:


> I apologize if this has been asked already (I did a search, and couldn't find the answer). How do I connect this to my Android phone via OTG and have it not drain the phone's battery? I never had this issue with my old Oppo HA-2 or Chord Mojo.
> 
> 
> Thanks!




Turn on the ifi before connecting or install firmware 5,2B

Hope it helps
Bilson


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> The transportable 'integrated' iDSD micro omits Class A operation to extend battery life and stuffing so much into a fairly small package limits component quality, though especially in the Back Label we have maxed it out as much as its enclosure and concept allows.
> 
> In the end, the two alternatives share more in common sonically than they don't. But differences exist, even if the objective measured performance between all options and combinations remains so close, one would be hard-pressed to accept that the measurable differences are enough to cause audibility.
> 
> Clearly we still have not figured out to measure the parameters that are responsible for "sound quality".


 
  
 I've just got the micro iDSD BL and feel a tangible improvement over the silver one.
 I thought the silver one was a bit too dependent on the recording quality, and quite unforgiving of bad recordings, but the BL is more tolerant and a pleasurable listen. It doesn't feel like it's mellowed in any way, but just feels a lot more comfortable and easy to listen to anything.
  
  
 I have one technical question. When I play a 44.1 kHz 16 bit file via USB from my Mac, Core Audio can be set up to send 16 bits natively to iDSD, but some software like JRiver says it is sending the data as 44.1kHz 32 bits by default (presumably by just filling it with zeros).
  
 Does that make any difference in the way iDSD handles the data, such as the DAC and filter behaviour?
  
  
 Also, I've noticed that the filter switch changes the perceived music volume when it is playing DSD files (Bit Perfect - i.e. Extreme Range mode sounds splashy and louder). Is this as expected?


----------



## technobear

sandalaudio said:


> Also, I've noticed that the filter switch changes the perceived music volume when it is playing DSD files (Bit Perfect - i.e. Extreme Range mode sounds splashy and louder). Is this as expected?




Yes.


----------



## quino05

Hello. I recently purchased an iFi iDSD to include in my audio system: PC with Jriver, Audio Research preamp and power with Avalon speakers. I am replacing with it  an old Nuprime iDSD used as Dac with the  dsd files. My purpose was  use iFi dsd in direct mode connected with my audio system preamplifier. Did I make a mistake? That is what I think now after having read some of the post of this forum. Should have I bought an ifi dac2 to my project? Or idsd will be able to fulfill my expectations.
 Thanks


----------



## sandalaudio

quino05 said:


> Hello. I recently purchased an iFi iDSD to include in my audio system: PC with Jriver, Audio Research preamp and power with Avalon speakers. I am replacing with it  an old Nuprime iDSD used as Dac with the  dsd files. My purpose was  use iFi dsd in direct mode connected with my audio system preamplifier. Did I make a mistake? That is what I think now after having read some of the post of this forum. Should have I bought an ifi dac2 to my project? Or idsd will be able to fulfill my expectations.
> Thanks


 
  
 I would love to hear these DACs on your Audio Research/Avalon combination. I am sure it would sound amazing. 
  
 I've just been doing some thorough listening tests between my micro iDSD BL and iDAC2 via direct RCA output to my headphone amp (Violectric V281) via a Windows JRiver. In the end, the two are strong on different aspects, so it's not like the iDAC2 is far superior to iDSD BL.
  
 I guess you are saving some money by buying the iDAC2 because it doesn't have the beefy headphone amp or the big battery, both unnecessary for your particular application. Also I like the fact that iDAC2 takes a standard USB B cable (e.g. iFi Gemini) while the iDSD needs an adapter of some sort.
  
 My personal impression is that the iDSD BL has a bit more focus on the fundamental tone and the tangible details on the notes coming out of the musicians themselves, and gives a lot of air and space around it, so it feels like a cleaner presentation. In comparison the iDAC2 has more noticeable details around the overtones and the acoustic environment around the musicians, so it feels smoother and denser. The difference is very slight, particularly when compared with other brands of DACs. 
  
 I ended up buying both the iDAC2 and iDSD because they serve different purposes and both sounds uniquely brilliant. You might end up doing the same...


----------



## Sigmaaa

Can the iDSD run without the battery? I've asked in the black label thread too, but there are more people here and better chance for an answer. I've seen that the battery is easily removable from the pcb, being plugged in a connector. So, can it work with the battery removed?


----------



## technobear

sigmaaa said:


> Can the iDSD run without the battery? I've asked in the black label thread too, but there are more people here and better chance for an answer. I've seen that the battery is easily removable from the pcb, being plugged in a connector. So, can it work with the battery removed?




We know for a fact that the iDSD cannot do Turbo mode without the battery.

Normal mode would be borderline and can call on the battery.

Eco mode should work in theory as it is within the envelope of USB power but in practice I strongly suspect that the hardware will not function without the battery.

Keep your iCAN SE and get an iDAC2 and an iPurifier2. Then you are all set.


----------



## quino05

How long is it necessary to fully charge idsd micro´s battery at  the first time,? Can I charge the idsd  battery   from a hub with a fast usb output ?  .


----------



## technobear

quino05 said:


> How long is it necessary to fully charge idsd micro´s battery at  the first time,? Can I charge the idsd  battery   from a hub with a fast usb output ?  .




You can charge it from anything that meets the USB spec.

24 hours is recommended just for the first time.

Edit: don't make the mistake many noobs make of trying to use the side USB port. That is for emergency charging of a phone only.


----------



## quino05

After last post  I found a response to my first question.
 Http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/36/


----------



## goldsmith83

I wonder to what extent is the idsd micro black worthy to pay $150 more than the idsd silver. If the idsd BL is the successor of the idsd silver then I'd be willing to buy one BL but if it's just an improved update, the real successor might appear sometime this year, therefore I'd rather wait and purchase a silver unit meanwhile.


----------



## gr8soundz

goldsmith83 said:


> I wonder to what extent is the idsd micro black worthy to pay $150 more than the idsd silver. If the idsd BL is the successor of the idsd silver then I'd be willing to buy one BL but if it's just an improved update, the real successor might appear sometime this year, therefore I'd rather wait and purchase a silver unit meanwhile.


 
  
 The real successor will be the iDSD Pro which is overdue for release but may finally arrive by end of the year. However, it will likely cost around $2000.


----------



## goldsmith83

gr8soundz said:


> The real successor will be the iDSD Pro which is overdue for release but may finally arrive by end of the year. However, it will likely cost around $2000.


 

 And it will be fully desktop just like the iCan Pro, I guess. Then can be said that the BL is the successor since that iDSD Pro will not be transportable. Then the answer is clear, I shall opt for an iDSD Micro BL.


----------



## BillsonChang007

technobear said:


> You can charge it from anything that meets the USB spec.
> 
> 24 hours is recommended just for the first time.
> 
> Edit: don't make the mistake many noobs make of trying to use the side USB port. That is for emergency charging of a phone only.




It is hard to not use the side USB port when you travel with it thought  it has become my power bank last year thought I rarely uses it. 

Charging it back is a pain sometimes.


----------



## dobigstuff

quino05 said:


> Hello. I recently purchased an iFi iDSD to include in my audio system: PC with Jriver, Audio Research preamp and power with Avalon speakers. I am replacing with it  an old Nuprime iDSD used as Dac with the  dsd files. My purpose was  use iFi dsd in direct mode connected with my audio system preamplifier. Did I make a mistake? That is what I think now after having read some of the post of this forum. Should have I bought an ifi dac2 to my project? Or idsd will be able to fulfill my expectations.
> Thanks


 
 Quino05:
  
 I just picked up an iFi iDSD Black.  I am using it as a Dac between my Marantz NA 7004 Music Server (running JRiver 24 bit 96kHz) and my Moon P3 Preamp.  Still breaking it in, but sounds great.  My other Dac is the Schiit Bifrost.


----------



## feinanng

I currently pair my hd650 with iFi Nano IDSD + Nano iCan, looking for upgrade. 
 Confuse either sell all the Nanos and get Micro iDSD BL or use Nano iDSD as DAC then get a iCAN SE?


----------



## technobear

feinanng said:


> I currently pair my hd650 with iFi Nano IDSD + Nano iCan, looking for upgrade.
> Confuse either sell all the Nanos and get Micro iDSD BL or use Nano iDSD as DAC then get a iCAN SE?




Do you need battery/portable operation?


----------



## feinanng

technobear said:


> Do you need battery/portable operation?


 
 Nope, home use only.


----------



## technobear

feinanng said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Do you need battery/portable operation?
> ...




The batteries really are a nuisance in a home use scenario.

I think I would get the iCAN SE and then later on as funds allow, the iDAC2.


----------



## willywill

Good deal the Black Label just drop to $400
 https://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html?sdtid=9752732&emailprice=t


----------



## bluesaint

Unless you listen to dsd512, then only the idsd micro would do. 



technobear said:


> The batteries really are a nuisance in a home use scenario.
> 
> I think I would get the iCAN SE and then later on as funds allow, the iDAC2.


----------



## cav1sa

feinanng said:


> I currently pair my hd650 with iFi Nano IDSD + Nano iCan, looking for upgrade.
> Confuse either sell all the Nanos and get Micro iDSD BL or use Nano iDSD as DAC then get a iCAN SE?


 
 I think you'll get a bigger improvement with your 650's if you get the iCAN SE first. They scale very well with better amps.


----------



## quino05

Ououuu I´ve changed an ifi idsd micro  original cable usb for a PURPLE PLUS USB (Analysis Plus) .WHAT A DIFFERENCE! soft defined musical,A real change


----------



## PabloSRT8

I'm sorry if this is a repost. I tried reading a little bit but I still don't get it.

Filters:
Bit Perfect
Minimum Phase
Standard

Which one and why?

My set up is:
high res 96/24 music, pioneer xdp100r usb transport, ifi idsd black, fostex th900mkii


----------



## technobear

pablosrt8 said:


> I'm sorry if this is a repost. I tried reading a little bit but I still don't get it.
> 
> Filters:
> Bit Perfect
> ...




Bit perfect will sound the most like real musicians playing real instruments as it has the most accurate transient response.

Standard is the filter which gave rise to the term 'digitalitis'.

Minimum Phase might give a slightly smoother sound with poorly mastered stuff.


----------



## PabloSRT8

technobear said:


> Bit perfect will sound the most like real musicians playing real instruments as it has the most accurate transient response.
> 
> Standard is the filter which gave rise to the term 'digitalitis'.
> 
> Minimum Phase might give a slightly smoother sound with poorly mastered stuff.




Straight to the point! Excellent, thank you!


----------



## TjPhysicist

So I finally got back from my trip to Asia and was able to return my faulty idsd micro (there was too much hiss and so on, it was unbearable). Haven't been able to listen to good music for almost a month (honestly the macbook headphone out is not very good to my ears). FINALLY got it exchanged (different seller on amazon for the second piece). And this one doesn't even start up. Rapidly blinking green/blue. I plug it in and about a 1/2 hour later it completely turns off, then i unplug and plug it back in again...rinse and repeat. (As per directions on the ifi site).
  
 P.S, if @iFi audio  is reading this, your site says "In rare cases (actually so far only theoretical, we have not been able to provoke this in practice) the battery may be depleted so much that after the expiry of the 30 minutes for “flat battery provision” the battery can still not be charged normally.", you may want to check this out because I definitely proved that in practice.
  
 Frankly at this point I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just buying a chord Mojo...only reason I bought the idsd over the mojo was price, but this isn't worth it.


----------



## rickyleelee

Bro, get a bc 1.2 high power charger. Works faster than standard USB port charge. Only 10 bucks.


----------



## iclickjohn

tjphysicist said:


> So I finally got back from my trip to Asia and was able to return my faulty idsd micro (there was too much hiss and so on, it was unbearable). Haven't been able to listen to good music for almost a month (honestly the macbook headphone out is not very good to my ears). FINALLY got it exchanged (different seller on amazon for the second piece). And this one doesn't even start up. Rapidly blinking green/blue. I plug it in and about a 1/2 hour later it completely turns off, then i unplug and plug it back in again...rinse and repeat. (As per directions on the ifi site).
> 
> P.S, if @iFi audio
> is reading this, your site says "[COLOR=656565]In rare cases (actually so far only theoretical, we have not been able to provoke this in practice) the battery may be depleted so much that after the expiry of the 30 minutes for “flat battery provision” the battery can still not be charged normally.", you may want to check this out because I definitely proved that in practice.[/COLOR]
> ...



when you first get it, it needs to be charged for quite a while until the blue light goes out. I also use a wall charger as it is faster than USB from computer. But you have to do this before listening. Once you get used to the color codes, they come in very useful. My favorite color is cyan lol.


----------



## goldsmith83

I see the iDSD Black deal on Adorama has sadly ended. I think I shall buy a Mojo or a Dacamp L1 and leave the iDSD for a better time.


----------



## willywill

goldsmith83 said:


> I see the iDSD Black deal on Adorama has sadly ended. I think I shall buy a Mojo or a Dacamp L1 and leave the iDSD for a better time.


 
 Import the Mojo from AmazonUK, total should come out to $444


----------



## goldsmith83

willywill said:


> Import the Mojo from AmazonUK, total should come out to $444


 
 It had also occurred to me, the L1 is also cheaper in the UK than in my country although I guess most people prefer the Mojo.


----------



## iFi audio

tjphysicist said:


> So I finally got back from my trip to Asia and was able to return my faulty idsd micro (there was too much hiss and so on, it was unbearable). Haven't been able to listen to good music for almost a month (honestly the macbook headphone out is not very good to my ears). FINALLY got it exchanged (different seller on amazon for the second piece). And this one doesn't even start up. Rapidly blinking green/blue. I plug it in and about a 1/2 hour later it completely turns off, then i unplug and plug it back in again...rinse and repeat. (As per directions on the ifi site).
> 
> P.S, if @iFi audio  is reading this, your site says "In rare cases (actually so far only theoretical, we have not been able to provoke this in practice) the battery may be depleted so much that after the expiry of the 30 minutes for “flat battery provision” the battery can still not be charged normally.", you may want to check this out because I definitely proved that in practice.
> 
> Frankly at this point I'm thinking of cutting my losses and just buying a chord Mojo...only reason I bought the idsd over the mojo was price, but this isn't worth it.


 
  
 yup, that's the case of a battery as flat as a pancake. Please take a look here: http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/


----------



## Feyded1020

Just an update. 

I received my new Black Label, and everything is working as designed. I must say I am absolutely blown away how crystal clear this thing sounds and love the XBass/3D sound as well for some songs. It has definitely added more depth to my Nighthawks and easily powers my T50rp's. I have coupled it with the iPurifier 2 and highly recommend this duo, its phenomenal how much cleaner the purifier has made the audio, any hint of noise is gone. 

Hope to get many years out of these products.


----------



## TjPhysicist

ifi audio said:


> yup, that's the case of a battery as flat as a pancake. Please take a look here: http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/


 
 If you noticed that exact site is linked in my post, so obviously I know about it and have thus tried it all. Anyway I returned this particular unit. But still have my original one as I had to travel and couldn't return it within 30 days. (It has really bad high frequency noise and lots of bleeding in said frequency making any rock song unbearable to listen to, hurts my ears after a few hours).
  
 All in all, I am VERY dissapointed and *would honestly love suggestions for something else to buy that is of equal quality/price range (a 1/4" out would help ofc).* Note that due to the idsd micro, I am now DEATHLY afraid of the words "treble splash" so chrome mojo is a no go as well. 
  
 I tried contacting ifi support, someone either here or another forum mentioned how bad it was, and I have to agree, they just keep emailing me questions I have already answered or suggestions I have either tried and said I have or suggestions so obvious they should not be mentioned after 5 emails in the chain (e.g. "make sure you have a good quality audio file"...well obviously..I did say "the exact same setup works amazingly WITHOUT the idsd micro but onboard soundcard instead").


----------



## technobear

tjphysicist said:


> ifi audio said:
> 
> 
> > yup, that's the case of a battery as flat as a pancake. Please take a look here: http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/
> ...




Is it under warranty? If so, send it in for repair.


----------



## audiotweaker

I was suspecting iFi Micro iDSD driver issues so I uninstalled it via the control panel.  Now, when I try to install it again the installer says it is already installed.  I'm guessing the uninstall from the control panel did not remove everything.  How can I install the driver fresh again?  Any clues would be most appreciated.


----------



## XSAMURAI

audiotweaker said:


> I was suspecting iFi Micro iDSD driver issues so I uninstalled it via the control panel.  Now, when I try to install it again the installer says it is already installed.  I'm guessing the uninstall from the control panel did not remove everything.  How can I install the driver fresh again?  Any clues would be most appreciated.


 
 have you checked the installation directory ? Reset your pc and try it again
  
 C: / Program Files / IFI / USB_HD_Aduio_Driver / Unistall.exe


----------



## audiotweaker

That did the trick.
  
 I'm a Mac guy and thus don't know my way around Windows.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## quino05

hello .I use IDSD as a simple dac in my audio system , USB imput RCA output to my preamplifier and then I choose on the device the Direct function and not the other (preamp). It is possible or convenient to play with filters or other options like Power or IMatch I see that such functions are kept active despite my selection


----------



## BillsonChang007

quino05 said:


> hello .I use IDSD as a simple dac in my audio system , USB imput RCA output to my preamplifier and then I choose on the device the Direct function and not the other (preamp). It is possible or convenient to play with filters or other options like Power or IMatch I see that such functions are kept active despite my selection



Power, 3D, XBass and IEMatch only works on Pre-amp or through the headphone jack of the iFi. For DAC, there's polarity and filter to play with  

Hope it helps
Bilson


----------



## quino05

Thanks


----------



## quino05

I have just finished testing black label in my hi end sound sistem and I must said that BL sound quality are much better than idsd micro. I'm I extremely satisfied with the performance of the BL even compared to my dac Ps audio


----------



## Maxpain

Hello folks,
  
  
 Can someone tell me how can I use the iPurifier 2 with the micro? Do I need any other cable than the original blue usb cable that came along with the micro?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## gr8soundz

maxpain said:


> Can someone tell me how can I use the iPurifier 2 with the micro? Do I need any other cable than the original blue usb cable that came along with the micro?


 
  
 The iPurifier 2 should be connected directly (or as close as possible) to the Micro. If your iP2 is type B just use either of the usb type B adapters that came with the Micro.


----------



## looge

Can anyone confirm that the iDSD Micro works with the Sony Walkman NW-WM1Z/1A if used with the Sony WMC-NWH10 cable adapter (WM port to USB A female).
 I asked in the Sony thread but received no response.
 Thanks.


----------



## doofalb

looge said:


> Can anyone confirm that the iDSD Micro works with the Sony Walkman NW-WM1Z/1A if used with the Sony WMC-NWH10 cable adapter (WM port to USB A female).
> I asked in the Sony thread but received no response.
> Thanks.


 
 Confirmed. Plug and play. Listening to it atm.


----------



## quino05

Which is the best USB port to connect idsd BL 2.0 or 3.0.? I have a question about my current connection. USB 2.0 Notebook> hub (with power suply) 3.0> AQ Jitterbug> USB cable PURPLE PLUS USB (Analysis Plus)> adapter idsd box included> iDSD BL> direct to external preamp. What do you think?


----------



## BillsonChang007

quino05 said:


> Which is the best USB port to connect idsd BL 2.0 or 3.0.? I have a question about my current connection. USB 2.0 Notebook> hub (with power suply) 3.0> AQ Jitterbug> USB cable PURPLE PLUS USB (Analysis Plus)> adapter idsd box included> iDSD BL> direct to external preamp. What do you think?



If I were you, I would keep it as simple as possible for a pathway to connect to maximze sound. Additional junctions will impact sound quality in different ways thought sometimes, not huge. 

As for USB2.0 or USB3.0, I would say USB3.0 but really, if you can't hear a difference like me. Don't bother. AFAIK, if your notebook USB is 2.0, connecting to a USB3.0 hub doesn't make it 3.0. 

Hope it helps
Bilson


----------



## quino05

Thank you for your attention to my question.
 I share your idea that the best way is the simplest one  however in my case there is some justification.to the steps included. According to the specifications of my hub, the jub's external power  replaces the usb bus of the computer, and  gives a better power quality than the usb port . From there the final  sound obtained was more clear  adding the AQ Jitterbug between usb hub and usb cable .  I have also changed the usb cable comes with  idsd by a new cable usb hi end . This cable has a plug type B so I was forced to enter in the path the adapter that brings the idsd BL.
 Picking out computer  usb 2.0 to the hub 3.0 it  was to stay  on a system with less grit than the computer output 3.0 
 I think the final sound output is more transparent and exactly than when I connect directly the  computer with  idsd BL.
 I await  some of my friends who have shown very good hearing in the audio tests for the final veredict.


----------



## sandalaudio

USB 2.0 v.s. USB 3.0 ports "should" not make any difference to the sound, but there has always been some general rule-of-thumb that if a USB DAC has issues on USB 3.0 then it's best to use a USB 2.0 port instead.
  
 This is particularly the case for older computers (3+ years old) that was made during the transition period between USB 2.0 and USB 3.0. Back then, a lot of computers had the basic Intel USB 2.0 controller chip, plus some third party USB 3.0 chip just to add the USB 3.0 capability at a lower cost than Intel's solution at the time.
  
 For example for desktop motherboards, older Intel chipset could only provide 2 or 4 USB 3.0 ports, so a lot of companies added in additional third-party USB 3.0 controller chip to add more ports for convenience.
  
 Not all of these third party USB 3.0 controller circuits are designed equally, so some have more aggressive power management, data queuing, and noise on the USB bus power line. Quite often a DAC (particularly when running DSD256, PCM384kHz etc) works flawlessly on one USB port, but causes pops and dropouts when connected to another port running on another controller.
  
 Similarly many laptops have webcam, bluetooth, touchpad etc that are all connected internally to a USB controller (they are essentially USB peripherals connected internally), so some USB ports share the same controller as the bluetooth for example, and the DAC drops out when bluetooth is turned on. More expensive laptops are often designed generously compared to the cheaper models.
  
 It's best to look at the Device Manager (with View > Devices by connection) to see exactly which controller the DAC is connected to, and how many other devices it is sharing the controller with.


----------



## quino05

First print with hub. Second direct to usb computer . Is it possible with these screenshot see which controller the DAC is connected to, and how many other devices it is sharing the controller with.


----------



## PabloSRT8

Does anyone else wishes the IEM button was not sticking out as much as it does?
I put my x100r on the bottom of the idsd (because is flat) and every time I pulled it out of my bag it switches the button to iems, I have full size cans (Fostex 900mkii)


----------



## sandalaudio

quino05 said:


> First print with hub. Second direct to usb computer . Is it possible with these screenshot see which controller the DAC is connected to, and how many other devices it is sharing the controller with.


 
  
 Your screenshots just misses the exact location that the iFi is connected to. You might need to open up some trees (e.g. PCI Express) to see where the iFi is physically connected to.
 The grayed out "iFi (by AMR) HD+ USB Audio" is not a physical connection but a hidden information about something you may have plugged in previously (so that Windows don't have to keep installing drivers thinking it is a brand new device).
  
 Below is an example of my computer at the moment, which shows that the micro iDSD is connected to the ASMedia USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller, which is internally hooked up to Intel PCI Express Root Port 5, in the main PCI Express Root Complex.
  
 You can also see underneath another tree set of USB ports provided by Intel USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller, which has my USB keyboard, mouse, mass storage (HDD) etc connected to it.
  
 I'm not saying this tell you what is good or bad, but it is the first thing to check if you want to see how things are hooked up inside your computer, and isolate any issues that you might be experiencing. Also, some root hubs (mostly on laptops) can report back on how much current each device is drawing (in Properties), to see if the DAC is having to share the power with any other devices.


----------



## technobear

pablosrt8 said:


> Does anyone else wishes the IEM button was not sticking out as much as it does?
> I put my x100r on the bottom of the idsd (because is flat) and every time I pulled it out of my bag it switches the button to iems, I have full size cans (Fostex 900mkii)




There should be a sheet of Teflon-type stuff in the box. This is to go between the iDSD and another device such as a phone. This might stop the problem. If not, try magic tape over the switch.


----------



## joshnor713

pablosrt8 said:


> Does anyone else wishes the IEM button was not sticking out as much as it does?
> I put my x100r on the bottom of the idsd (because is flat) and every time I pulled it out of my bag it switches the button to iems, I have full size cans (Fostex 900mkii)


 
  
 Pop off the button, it's easy. I actually set my settings to the spots I wanted and popped them all off, so I never accidentally switch them. I placed them all in a ziplock bag if I were to ever sell the device.


----------



## PabloSRT8

joshnor713 said:


> Pop off the button, it's easy. I actually set my settings to the spots I wanted and popped them all off, so I never accidentally switch them. I placed them all in a ziplock bag if I were to ever sell the device.


 
 Sir, you are a genius! Never crossed my mind, thanks.


----------



## quino05

1-ifi connected to Hub 2- ifi connected to computer 
 The Hub has a ac-dc connect and is provided with a automatic switch who change the USB electrical current to its  owen power  source 
 I know that ifi can only be supplied with its own battery or use the current coming from the usb cable .Which of the two modes offers a cleaner current?


----------



## hemipowered007

Got a black label yesterday, only listened maybe 30 minutes so far, and haven't gotten to try out my full sized. I plan on doing a run tonight with dac only to my pioneer sx1010, to he4s, then also trying the pre amplifier/dac to the 1010, along with maybe speaker listening if I can get that in before kids need to goto bed. Either way, I'm a happy guy right now. The detail, seperation, and prat this thing is giving off, with just the 1more triple drivers, fed from fiio x3 coaxial out as transport. Can not wait to see how my he4 pairs with this as both amp/dac, or preamp/dac to the 1010. The sx1010, which I rebuilt, has been my favorite audio purchase thus far, and ive bought 2 now, really really looking forward to having this device connected to it! Just want to say a big thank you to everyone who's written reviews on this, it convinced me very quickly to buy one!


----------



## Wyd4

Silver idsd micro on my desk and a black one on its way. How excite


----------



## BillsonChang007

wyd4 said:


> Silver idsd micro on my desk and a black one on its way. How excite


 

 saying goodbye soon to my BL T.T 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



can I recommend head-fi to add a crying emoji to their list?


----------



## technobear

billsonchang007 said:


> saying goodbye soon to my BL T.T






I heard the Black Label at Bristol on Friday with a pair of LCD-X. Outstanding. Truly outstanding.


----------



## Maxpain

Is there any way to use the asio driver of the micro with windows 10? Not with jriver or foobar, when listening to youtube or spotify for example. Can I bypass the windows mixer and use the ifi driver directly? 
  
 I am doing lots of listening from youtube and spotify and such an option would be a nice thing.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## BillsonChang007

maxpain said:


> Is there any way to use the asio driver of the micro with windows 10? Not with jriver or foobar, when listening to youtube or spotify for example. Can I bypass the windows mixer and use the ifi driver directly?
> 
> I am doing lots of listening from youtube and spotify and such an option would be a nice thing.
> 
> Cheers.




When you are listening with iFi on Windows, you are using iFi's driver anyhow.


----------



## iFi audio

Yay, our latest nano iDSD LE got to the very first spot on Kakaku.com site!


----------



## BillsonChang007

ifi audio said:


> Yay, our latest nano iDSD LE got to the very first spot on Kakaku.com site!




Congratulation!


----------



## sandalaudio

quino05 said:


> 1-ifi connected to Hub 2- ifi connected to computer
> The Hub has a ac-dc connect and is provided with a automatic switch who change the USB electrical current to its  owen power  source
> I know that ifi can only be supplied with its own battery or use the current coming from the usb cable .Which of the two modes offers a cleaner current?


 
  
 I have an Aurorasound USB box that does exactly that, and cleans up the USB power beautifully, but I ended up not using it because it caused other problems (data eye pattern getting messy due to impedance reflection). I also have the Jitterbug, but that caused enough voltage drop since it's only a passive device, that some of my USB DACs (e.g. AK DAP) don't show up on my PC with Jitterbug + 1.5m USB cable, so I stopped using that also.
  
 Clean power supply is one thing, but there are always other sources of noise along the journey, so it's hard to get a complete picture of what works better.
  
 For example, the USB power line can easily get contaminated by the data wire signal "hopping" across along the length of the cable, or within the circuit board of the USB hub. (particularly on those visually-pleasing audiophile USB cables that uses audio wires that act like leaky pipes for 100kHz-MHz data signal).
  
 In the end, these noises are fairly high impedance, and any good USB DAC like the micro iDSD has decent USB power filter built-in, so the actual voltage supplied to the D/A and opamp chips inside are very clean even if there is lots of noise observed at the USB input.
  
 It's the age-old paradox that if some USB DAC company claims an external USB filter gadget makes drastic improvement to the sound quality then that's like saying their DAC is not designed very well to begin with.
  
 I'm not a skeptic and I do notice sonic differences, but it's hard to single out the reasons behind what I claim to hear. That's why it's interesting.


----------



## sandalaudio

ifi audio said:


> Yay, our latest nano iDSD LE got to the very first spot on Kakaku.com site!


 
  
 At that price, who can resist the temptation... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hey, some people even spend more money on just a USB cable alone (e.g. me)


----------



## looge

Asked this in another thread but no response. Anyone using iFI SPDIF iPurifier with the iDSD Micro's coaxial input? Is it a worthwhile addition between my DAP transport and iDSD Micro because it seems that the SPDIF iPurifier is being advertised to be used with products other than iFI. Perhaps the tech is already included in the iDSD Micro so I don't want it to be redundant or worse it might degrade the sound instead. Thanks.


----------



## gr8soundz

looge said:


> Asked this in another thread but no response. Anyone using iFI SPDIF iPurifier with the iDSD Micro's coaxial input? Is it a worthwhile addition between my DAP transport and iDSD Micro because it seems that the SPDIF iPurifier is being advertised to be used with products other than iFI. *Perhaps the tech is already included in the iDSD Micro* so I don't want it to be redundant or worse it might degrade the sound instead. Thanks.


 
  
 You are correct. The Micro already has the spdif iPurifier inside as well as the original usb iPurifier.


----------



## Maxpain

So is it pointless to use the seperate ipurifier with the micro?


----------



## dobigstuff

I have been using the iFi iDSD Black as a Dac.  Today for the first time I hooked it to my computer (nothing special HP Envy).  I downloaded the Driver and connected the iDSD Black.
 I use jRiver.  Settings:  Equalizer>Parametric EQ>DSD Setup select 4XDSD in DoP Format>DoP 11.3 MHz 1 bit 2 ch.  The Blue indicator input Light showing on the iDSD Black was DSD 256 11.3 MHz.  Headphones:  HD 700's with Black Dragon v2 Cable.  Sounds Great.  You can actually hear the difference in the Digital Filters.  Bit Perfect seems warmest.  Minimum Phase adds punch, smooth Mids and Highs and a bit wider soundstage.  Standard adds yet a bit more punch, smooth Mids as well Tight Bass clean highs.
 Happy Listening.


----------



## gr8soundz

maxpain said:


> So is it pointless to use the seperate ipurifier with the micro?


 
  
 If its the original iPurifier, yes.
  
 No if using the iPurifier 2 which also reclocks and regenerates the usb signal. I used a type A iPurifier 2 with the Micro and it made a noticeable improvement.


----------



## john57

I received the Burson Cable+ for my DAW (Digital Work Station) which also is my HTPC. All my video and audio equipment is connected to a single isolation transformer for power. This helps to minimize AC noise, common mode noise and ground loops noise from affecting the equipment.  Using  Audio-GD NFB-29H DAC/AMP 2016 version which is connected to the ASUS Z97-C motherboard in a custom soundproofed case.  I am using a USB3 optical network made by Adnaco for the connection among the computer, amp and monitor.  The monitors or speakers that I using are the PreSonus Sceptre S6 near fields designed to bring out details in a DAW mix and in music. The PreSonus Sceptre S6 is a CoActual design with an elaborate crossover design that uses the  Fulcrum Acoustics Temporal Equalization algorithms. More information can be found here;  http://www.fulcrum-acoustic.com/technologies/temporal-eq.html
 The Burson Cable+ is connected from the Audio-GD NFB-29H DAC/AMP which is set to utility gain to the PreSonus Sceptre S6. The PreSonus Sceptre S6 is set for minimum trim.  That way I avoid double amping.
 Many amps uses opamps to drive the line outs while the headphone outputs are usually directly coupled in the amps that I have. On my Little Dot 1+ I did experiment on different audio opamps and they do sound a bit different even though the specifications for the opamps say that it should not make much of a difference in the audio band.
 With the Burson Cable+ I noticed a gain increase but with a larger voltage swing that made the difference between soft and loud sounds greater.  There is a small bass boost at the lower mid-bass. There is more body to voices and female voices tend to sound fuller with less tendency toward stridency. There is more sense of forward to rear soundstage.  There is no increase in noise level that I can detect coming from the Burson Cable+.  By far the Burson Cable+ gives a more balanced sound with the Sabre ES9018 on the Audio-GD NFB-29H DAC/AMP . More of a difference than using any fancy USB power supplies or cables that I have tried. I am planning on getting a second Burson Cable+  for my secondary audio setup which is IFI by the way as I already own three IFI products that have DACs.


----------



## Bykhoff

The iem switch on the back has become loose (and I never touch it unless I need to adjust it back to the off position). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've simply taped it, since I don't use iem's with the iDSD. Eh, they don't make em' like they used to.


----------



## proedros

My IDSD BL review is up , thanx again to @iFi audio @iFi-Audio  for setting up the EU demo tour
  
 great job guys


*http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/18154*


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

I had to order a new mico b to USB A cable (very short) so I can use it with my Note 4 in review vid. My custom one bit the dust. My video is coming.


----------



## TheoS53

So, yesterday I spent a few hours listen and deliberating with myself whether to get the BL or the X5iii. I tried, honestly, genuinely tried to BS myself, but it just wasn't happening. After hearing the BL, the X5's sound just didn't cut it for me. I just had to have it. Damn this hobby :-D


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

theos53 said:


> So, yesterday I spent a few hours listen and deliberating with myself whether to get the BL or the X5iii. I tried, honestly, genuinely tried to BS myself, but it just wasn't happening. After hearing the BL, the X5's sound just didn't cut it for me. I just had to have it. Damn this hobby :-D


 

 ​ I'm about to make the same compare..you scaring me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am a sucker for power and detail combined. Plus I use a 5.7" note to front it. I will do a video compare


----------



## RAQemUP

micro iDSD BL back to 400 at adorama. Just purchased a used one the other day too.


----------



## TheoS53

hawaiibadboy said:


> I had to order a new mico b to USB A cable (very short) so I can use it with my Note 4 in review vid. My custom one bit the dust. My video is coming.


 
 You should perhaps consider getting yourself a dead standard OTG cable. An absolute must for any Android user IMO

 Also, you should perhaps try and test the BL with a DAP as well. I just compared the BL connected via COAX to my DX80 vs the BL connected via OTG to my S7 running Hiby. It just isn't the same. You'd think that a digital signal is a digital signal, and as such the source shouldn't matter. But boy does it ever.


----------



## hemipowered007

I'm guessing maybe because of the phone running multiple tasks vs the dsl being dedicated to just music info this may make a difference. I haven't tried my bl on my s7 yet, just the Fiio x3i. What differences did you notice between yours and the dx80?


----------



## TheoS53

hemipowered007 said:


> I'm guessing maybe because of the phone running multiple tasks vs the dsl being dedicated to just music info this may make a difference. I haven't tried my bl on my s7 yet, just the Fiio x3i. What differences did you notice between yours and the dx80?




I'm not entirely sure to be perfectly honest. It just doesn't seem as dynamic and engaging. This might very well be something as simple as a slight volume drop causing this... But I'm really not sure


----------



## hemipowered007

So, forgive me for this, the otg cables for phone put, bypasses the internal dac and amp of the s7 right? I tried looking into it a while back, and got sick of reading. I would randomly like to use my s7 as a transport for spotify/Pandora into my ifi bl. Is there a certain otg cable I should get? Or is it any I can find on amazon. Sorry, I'm feeling lazy and don't want to look much up right now, 14 hour work day.


----------



## TheoS53

hemipowered007 said:


> So, forgive me for this, the otg cables for phone put, bypasses the internal dac and amp of the s7 right? I tried looking into it a while back, and got sick of reading. I would randomly like to use my s7 as a transport for spotify/Pandora into my ifi bl. Is there a certain otg cable I should get? Or is it any I can find on amazon. Sorry, I'm feeling lazy and don't want to look much up right now, 14 hour work day.




Yup, that's the general idea. Just get an OTG cable which has the micro USB connection on 1 end, and the female full size USB connection on the other (the type you would use to connect a flash drive or hard drive to the phone). But then you'll also need to use an app like Hiby Music in order to properly bypass the internal DAC. 

First, start up the app, then connect the DAC. At this point you'll see a pop-up asking you if you want to use the external device


----------



## hemipowered007

Ok perfect thanks


----------



## black9white

theos53 said:


> So, yesterday I spent a few hours listen and deliberating with myself whether to get the BL or the X5iii. I tried, honestly, genuinely tried to BS myself, but it just wasn't happening. After hearing the BL, the X5's sound just didn't cut it for me. I just had to have it. Damn this hobby :-D


 
 I'm on the same boat as you basically its the mojo, ifi idsd bl or the x5iii... I tried the x5iii its so-so for my ears. I will try to audition the mojo but for the ifi idsd bl its going to be a blind buy if the mojo doesn't work for me :/ 
  
 Have you compare it with the mojo?


----------



## TheoS53

black9white said:


> I'm on the same boat as you basically its the mojo, ifi idsd bl or the x5iii... I tried the x5iii its so-so for my ears. I will try to audition the mojo but for the ifi idsd bl its going to be a blind buy if the mojo doesn't work for me :/
> 
> Have you compare it with the mojo?


 
 I actually tried to compare it to the Mojo whilst I was at the shop, but I wasn't able to get it working with my phone. this was most likely due to the cable I was trying to use (the only one that was available at that time). Basically what I had to do was to take a regular micro-USB to full USB cable and connect it to an OTG cable (in order to have a micro-USB connection on each side). But, for some reason my phone simply didn't pick up the Mojo. This was odd, because when I reviewed the Mojo a couple of month back, this was the exact method I used to connect it to my phone then (same phone). 

 As for comparing them, as mentioned I wasn't able to do so at the same time, but when I reviewed the Mojo I thought it sounded great. However, it honestly did not leave me with the same lasting impression that the iDSD BL did when I reviewed it around 2 weeks ago. So yes, I can unfortunately only compare them by memory, but if my memory is correct then the Mojo feels like a step down from the iDSD BL.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Quote: 





black9white said:


> I'm on the same boat as you basically its the mojo, ifi idsd bl or the x5iii... I tried the x5iii its so-so for my ears. I will try to audition the mojo but for the ifi idsd bl its going to be a blind buy if the mojo doesn't work for me :/
> 
> Have you compare it with the mojo?


 
  
  
  
 Not asked of me but I got 2 of the 3 now and owned the Mojo twice before selling it twice.
  
 Volume control (memory) drove me nuts and it was not very wide. Detail laden and mid centric sound. I almost bought it a 3rd time but nah, selling a cable pack that shoulda come with it and now the add on poly thing has me turned of totally. I still gotta review the iDSD BL so the sonic diff between it and the original is not known to me yet but the sound is supposed to be slightly different so I am looking forward to this Black beauty.


----------



## TheoS53

I wonder if @iFi-Audio would be able to retune the 3D+ function to not accentuate the upper frequencies as much


----------



## BillsonChang007

theos53 said:


> I wonder if @iFi-Audio
> would be able to retune the 3D+ function to not accentuate the upper frequencies as much




To a certain extend, boosting the treble boost Soundstage too!


----------



## TheoS53

Has anyone else noticed a change in sound depending on the position of the gain switch on the BL?

 With my Pinnacle P1, Eco can drive it perfectly fine. But if I switch over to Normal, at the same volume level things just sound fuller (not warmer or more bass heavy), more dynamic. Normal and Turbo seem to sound the same.


----------



## proedros

any comparisons available between BL and sony wm1a ?


----------



## Aegruin

theos53 said:


> Has anyone else noticed a change in sound depending on the position of the gain switch on the BL?
> 
> With my Pinnacle P1, Eco can drive it perfectly fine. But if I switch over to Normal, at the same volume level things just sound fuller (not warmer or more bass heavy), more dynamic. Normal and Turbo seem to sound the same.


 
 I noticed it on non-BL. When I asked, they said "It's Placebo", "Gain switch won't change anything but volume". But I get it. Definitely like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 edit: It's like more punchier, dynamic but with the same FR.


----------



## TheoS53

aegruin said:


> edit: It's like more punchier, dynamic but with the same FR.


 
 Exactly. In Eco it just sounds thinner. 

 I don't think it's placebo, as I wasn't "expecting" a change. I simply tried a different gain setting to compare the positions of the volume knob to get the same volume level for each gain setting. So it caught me a bit off guard. I get why they would say it's a placebo, as the gain *shouldn't* affect the sound like that. But yet, somehow it does.


----------



## hemipowered007

I agree with this, I can use eco on my 1more triple drivers, but to me, from the beginning it sounded like something was missing.


----------



## gr8soundz

theos53 said:


> Exactly. In Eco it just sounds thinner.
> 
> I don't think it's placebo, as I wasn't "expecting" a change. I simply tried a different gain setting to compare the positions of the volume knob to get the same volume level for each gain setting. So it caught me a bit off guard. I get why they would say it's a placebo, as the gain *shouldn't* affect the sound like that. But yet, somehow it does.


 
  
 Imo, its due to damping factor. The additional power at higher gain can make some headphones sound more effortless (best word I can think of).
  
 Similar to a car with more torque, it becomes easier to get things moving.
  
 Its also the same reason many headphones sound better with much larger, more powerful amps. They don't have to work as hard as smaller amps at similar volume levels.
  
 More knowledgeable head-fiers can probably explain it better though.


----------



## gixxerwimp

I've had the original micro iDSD for coming on 2 years. The iEMatch switch started getting wonky recently. There's often channel imbalance and I have to jiggle it until it centers again. I usually leave it on High and while jiggling, one channel will sometimes such to Off intermittently. I've removed the plastic button from the switch so it doesn't get bumped after fiddling it into the right position, but the channel balance often goes out the next time I use it. 

Anyone else have this issue? 

I live in Asia so sending it back for repair would be a hassle. Other than this issue, I've been happy with the iDSD.


----------



## TheoS53

Gents, my apologies if this is a bit of a noob question, but I'm trying to do a bit of reading about the various filters. Would I be correct in saying that the standard filter is a linear filter? In which case, what kind of filter would the bit-perfect filter be? or if the bit-perfect filter is a linear one, what is the standard one?

 I've had a lengthy Google session, but this bit-perfect filter constantly brings up results for the IFI, which doesn't really help to get comparisons for other devices (in terms of what type of filter it is and how it has been implemented on other devices, etc).

 Perhaps @iFi could be of help.
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## technobear

theos53 said:


> Gents, my apologies if this is a bit of a noob question, but I'm trying to do a bit of reading about the various filters. Would I be correct in saying that the standard filter is a linear filter? In which case, what kind of filter would the bit-perfect filter be? or if the bit-perfect filter is a linear one, what is the standard one?
> 
> 
> I've had a lengthy Google session, but this bit-perfect filter constantly brings up results for the IFI, which doesn't really help to get comparisons for other devices (in terms of what type of filter it is and how it has been implemented on other devices, etc).
> ...




Bit-perfect mode means no upsampling and no digital filtering and a perfect transient response without ringing.


----------



## apaar123

Anyone tried them for gaming?


----------



## iFi audio

gr8soundz said:


> Imo, its due to damping factor. The additional power at higher gain can make some headphones sound more effortless (best word I can think of).


 
  
  
 For the iDSD micro, the different power modes do not change either output impedance / damping factor (damping factor is load impedance divided by output impedance).  Neither does the current limit of the circuit change. 
  
 The output impedance / damping factor and current limit change only if iEMatch is engaged.
  
 The lower power is simply due to reducing the power supply voltage and the circuit gain, thus making the amplifier clip earlier but also consuming much less idle power.
  
 The largest objective change we observe is that the higher gain / power modes have marginally higher distortion levels into low impedance headphones (< 50 Ohm) and absolute background noise is raised in line with gain. 
  
 So, objectively the higher gain/power modes produce more background noise, a smidgen more distortion and the amplifier clips at higher output voltage levels. 
  
 What this means is that the higher gain/power are matched to higher impedance, lower sensitivity headphones. In this case the distortion remains low and the noise at the actual headphone accoustic output also remains low and the added output voltage compensates the lower sensitivity.
  
 We would not wish to venture speculations as to why some iDSD micro users perceive large sonic differences with power mode. 
  
 However our own listening panels (using multiple iDSD micro accurately level matched) did not pick up on these differences and which show no evidence in measured performance. 
  
 It is essential to make sure to adjust the volume setting using a test signal and a suitable signal meter to compensate gain changes, rather than attempting to level match "by ear". 
  
 As little as an 0.5dB higher level (and 0.5dB are near impossible to set accurately and repeatedly by ear) will give a sound that is subjectively perceived as more dynamic and possibly with more bass, but is not perceived as louder. 
  
 It takes around 3dB level difference before the louder source is identified as louder using music, so it is relatively easy to be fooled by small but significant level differences into "hearing things" that in reality do not exist.


----------



## iFi audio

gixxerwimp said:


> I've had the original micro iDSD for coming on 2 years. The iEMatch switch started getting wonky recently. There's often channel imbalance and I have to jiggle it until it centers again. I usually leave it on High and while jiggling, one channel will sometimes such to Off intermittently. I've removed the plastic button from the switch so it doesn't get bumped after fiddling it into the right position, but the channel balance often goes out the next time I use it.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue?
> 
> I live in Asia so sending it back for repair would be a hassle. Other than this issue, I've been happy with the iDSD.


 
  
 Please open a ticket within our Support Ticket System: http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 Our support staff will try to help you.


----------



## gixxerwimp

It occurred to me to try some contact cleaner. Using an extension tube, I sprayed it into the small gap that's visible in the iEMatch switch in the Off and Ultra positions. Problem seems to have gone away.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

This thing...
  
 Allman bros.
 Sounding amazing. Clean but not too bright. Sonics do seem a bit fuller than original iDSD


----------



## ClieOS

Caught in the wild (or actually CanJam Singapore)


----------



## TheoS53

ifi audio said:


> For the iDSD micro, the different power modes do not change either output impedance / damping factor (damping factor is load impedance divided by output impedance).  Neither does the current limit of the circuit change.
> 
> The output impedance / damping factor and current limit change only if iEMatch is engaged.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your detailed answer


----------



## looge

I'm also using the Micro iDSD with my rather old hifi system as a DAC as follows; Fiio X3II > iDSD > cheap China made tube preamp > old active speakers, In the beginning I didn't expect too much thinking that the sound will come out tinny or worse, distort but much to my surprise the sound is great. Perhaps the tube preamp helps to give a more analog sound. Anyway a lot has been said about the iDSD's technology and sonic performance, so no need to repeat it here. Just want to highlight how versatile the iDSD is in that it can integrate well with diverse and even old hifi gear and that it performs great with more than just headphones.


----------



## Wyd4

looge said:


> I'm also using the Micro iDSD with my rather old hifi system as a DAC as follows; Fiio X3II > iDSD > cheap China made tube preamp > old active speakers, In the beginning I didn't expect too much thinking that the sound will come out tinny or worse, distort but much to my surprise the sound is great. Perhaps the tube preamp helps to give a more analog sound. Anyway a lot has been said about the iDSD's technology and sonic performance, so no need to repeat it here. Just want to highlight how versatile the iDSD is in that it can integrate well with diverse and even old hifi gear and that it performs great with more than just headphones.


 
  
 I love this picture, really does show off how versatile the iDSD Micro is.
  
 I have to say that from my limited experience when using the iDSD as a dac only, it does have a nice organic sound to it.  When using as a DAC/AMP it can sound a little less so.
  
 I have received my iDSD black today and have been comparing the 2 side by side and I can say that the BL is a clear step up for me.
 The sound has more body, the mids have more body yet on hard rock/metal somehow manage to have a nice bite on distorted guitars at the same time and the highs are smoother.
  
 These are quite noticeable changes with my headphones which tend to sound very lean with cold sources.
 I was quite happy with the silver iDSD Micro, but now I am even more so.
  
 Bass boost is also more pronounced in a good way.  I haven't played with the 3D effect much as yet.


 Great great work on the BL ifi!


----------



## Wyd4

I am loving my idsd micro black label. 
I loved my silver one but this is great with my ethers. Just taken that cold tone and warmed it up. 

Is there any benefit to me running the Ican se with the black idsd?

I am curious about the iTube with idsd and Ican for headphones. The worth of the iTube would be subjective, but is there much gained from the idsd BL amp section to the Ican se?


----------



## technobear

wyd4 said:


> I am loving my idsd micro black label.
> I loved my silver one but this is great with my ethers. Just taken that cold tone and warmed it up.
> 
> Is there any benefit to me running the Ican se with the black idsd?
> ...




If you don't already have an iPurifier2, that would be the first thing to get.

My experience of the iTube was that it did nothing I could hear through the T1 when placed between an iDSD and an iCAN.


----------



## Wyd4

technobear said:


> If you don't already have an iPurifier2, that would be the first thing to get.
> 
> My experience of the iTube was that it did nothing I could hear through the T1 when placed between an iDSD and an iCAN.




I don't have an ipurifier no. Closest I use currently is just a jitterbug. 

I use the idsd black with stock ifi cable and my headphones. 

Looking to further improve the sound if the upgrades are worth it.


----------



## Mizukage

If anyone is looking to buy ifi products, Adorama has a sale again.  Just got my iDSD BL for 399.


----------



## proedros

mizukage said:


> If anyone is looking to buy ifi products, Adorama has a sale again.  Just got my iDSD BL for 399.


 
  
 link ?
  
 here the price is 549$

 https://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html


----------



## Mizukage

proedros said:


> link ?
> 
> here the price is 549$
> 
> https://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html


 
 https://slickdeals.net/f/9842763-ifi-dac-sale-idsd-black-ed-400-idac-2-250-nano-idsd-le-100-more-free-s-h?src=SiteSearchV2_SearchBarV2Algo1


----------



## seaharp1

https://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html?sdtid=9842763&emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


----------



## DAW1d

Sorry for dumb question but I cant find answer anywhere. Is it normal that the line out is still active when I plug in headphones? I am using active studio monitors on lineout and I dont want to turn them off everytime I want to use headphones. I though the device will mute lineout when I plug headphones. Thanks.


----------



## technobear

daw1d said:


> Sorry for dumb question but I cant find answer anywhere. Is it normal that the line out is still active when I plug in headphones?




Yes.


----------



## DAW1d

Thank you. On Nano I am pretty sure that lineout was muted with headphones pluged in. And on AudioGD 11 was switch. So I wanted to be sure. Thanks.


----------



## 397324

Hi All
  
 Just got my iDSD Black yesterday and am very happy with it using my Shure SE846 IEMs, that I usually use on my various DAPS.
  
 I'm after a set of closed back headphones that don't leak, for under £500 and wondered what I should shortlist. I'm a bit treble sensitive, so nothing with too much treble.
  
 I live in Jersey and there are no specialist hi-fi dealers, so will have to take an educated guess.
  
 Regards
  
 Darren


----------



## Wyd4

darren cotter said:


> Hi All
> 
> Just got my iDSD Black yesterday and am very happy with it using my Shure SE846 IEMs, that I usually use on my various DAPS.
> 
> ...




A pair of Alpha dogs might suit. 

The primes were brighter, but the dogs we pretty smooth. The idsd will power them well too


----------



## dobigstuff

darren cotter said:


> Hi All
> 
> Just got my iDSD Black yesterday and am very happy with it using my Shure SE846 IEMs, that I usually use on my various DAPS.
> 
> ...


 
 Darren:
 I live in Jersey and there are a few good Hi Fi dealers.
  
 Here are two:

Stuarts Audio in Westfield
The Sound Exchange in Somerville
  
 As for a great Closed Back Headphone One of the best out there right now for the money is the Mr. Speakers Aeon now $699.99 (sorry)  I heard these at Can Jam.  They Blew me away.  You must demo these.


----------



## 397324

Thanks for the tip, but I meant Jersey, Channel Islands.


----------



## BillsonChang007

wyd4 said:


> A pair of Alpha dogs might suit.
> 
> The primes were brighter, but the dogs we pretty smooth. The idsd will power them well too




+1 to this. I love my Alpha Dog wif iFi combo. You really can't go around with it especially you are treble sensitive (like me) 

The SRH1540 is a good pair too but it does leaks a bit.


----------



## 397324

Thanks for the recommendations. Anyone have experience of the Oppo PM3?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

*If I want a USB  computer desktop only unit* would I be better off buying:
  
 Option #1-iFi Micro iDAC2 USB 3.0 DAC withthe  iFi Micro iCan SE,
  
 Option #2   iFi Micro iCan SE and the new nano – iOne
  
 Option #3 Black Label 
  
 Would you gain enough in sound quality to justify the extra $100 investment in dual stack ?
  
 Would long term you have a more releaible setup ? 
  
 How soon does the battery go bad if your unit is on 24 hrs per day? 
  
 Is the power output enough to to drive say 300 ohm headphones with the iFi Micro iDAC2 USB 3.0 DAC in this unit over the Black label?  
  
 I could just upgrade the power and USB by using iUSB3.0 and come in the same price of $549 
  
 What would but for  a desktop only version ?
  
 Is the playback delay on You Tube and say Foobar 2000 has been fixed with the firmware upgrade? 
  
 I am on email watch with Adorma for that $399 price for the Black Label.  I will then pull the trigger. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## FunctionalDoc

The link that was in a earlier post for *Adorama for $399* and I just ordered mine and it worked so I got it for $399  what a deal. That made my mind up what unit I was getting for that price. 
  
 Here is the link: 
  
 https://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html?sdtid=9752732&emailprice=t
  
 Get them while they are hot.


----------



## apaar123

Can I connect speakers as well as headphones to it and interchange when I want?


----------



## technobear

apaar123 said:


> Can I connect speakers as well as headphones to it and interchange when I want?




It has RCA/phono outputs so yes.

If your speakers have a volume control, use 'Direct' mode.

If your speakers have no volume control or it is inaccessible, use 'Preamp' mode.

You will also need to use 'Preamp' mode if you want to use XBASS or 3D through your speakers.


----------



## TheoS53

technobear said:


> It has RCA/phono outputs so yes.
> 
> If your speakers have a volume control, use 'Direct' mode.
> 
> ...


 
 Are the XBASS and 3D effects not implemented in the hardware domain, rather than in the amp section?


----------



## apaar123

technobear said:


> It has RCA/phono outputs so yes.
> 
> If your speakers have a volume control, use 'Direct' mode.
> 
> ...


My speakers have volume control but what is pre amp?


----------



## gr8soundz

apaar123 said:


> My speakers have volume control but what is pre amp?


 
  
 Rtm


----------



## technobear

theos53 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > It has RCA/phono outputs so yes.
> ...





XBASS and 3D are analogue circuits. They are not DSP.

The RCA 'Direct' output comes straight from the DAC more or less.

The RCA 'PreAmp' output comes from the amp via the volume control.

The Direct/PreAmp switch is on the underside.


----------



## apaar123

Can I interchange between headphone and speaker when both are connected to it?


----------



## quino05

"The RCA 'Direct' output comes straight from the DAC more or less"
What do you mean by more or less


----------



## rbalcom

apaar123 said:


> Can I interchange between headphone and speaker when both are connected to it?




No. Plugging in the headphones does not disconnect the RCA output. There is also not a switch to select the output.


----------



## rbalcom

quino05 said:


> "The RCA 'Direct' output comes straight from the DAC more or less"
> What do you mean by more or less




In the Direct mode, the RCA output is a 2.0v Fixed Line Out. In the Preamp mode, the RCA output is a variable 0v to 5v controlled by the volume knob.


----------



## technobear

quino05 said:


> "The RCA 'Direct' output comes straight from the DAC more or less"
> What do you mean by more or less




It means I can't remember if there is a further buffer or not


----------



## proedros

@iFi audio @iFi-Audio 

i find your marketing strategy brilliant with those BL tours

- people get to listen (and some of them eventually buy) your BL - you get some buzz going around , generated by those people who tried BL and their reviews

 and on top of that , you reward/push people to review it by offering the demo BL for free
 
Top-dollar marketing strategy , imho 

 It also helps that BL is a killer product - i mean you can sugar-coat a chocolate cake but you can not sugar-coat a turd-pie , right ? 
 
cheers


----------



## 397324

Hi All
  
 I would just like to give a big shout out to iFi.
  
 I was taking my two-day old iDSD Black out of the coffee table draw and very lightly touched the volume control on the edge. This resulted in a tiny bit of the black color to come off revealing the silver underneath. It was hardly noticeable but decided to contact iFi to see if it was possible to purchase a replacement.
  
 That was Saturday and today (Tuesday) a replacement has arrived free of charge. So a big thank you to iFi and especially Alix from the Tech Support department.
  
 Darren


----------



## TheoS53

darren cotter said:


> Hi All
> 
> I would just like to give a big shout out to iFi.
> 
> ...


 
 Damn, that's some super great service.


----------



## 397324

Super great product as well. Just received my Audioquest NightOwl Carbon headphones from www.audiosanctuary.co.uk. Ordered on Sunday and arrived today. Will be using them again.


----------



## TheoS53

Can someone please explain this to me? I've been checking the FR for the iDSD BL in REW 5.19. I was just curious to see if there's a difference between using my phone (Hiby Music as the app) via OTG, or my DX80 via COAX. 

 Here are the 2 graphs:

 DX80


  
  
 Phone


 So, connected to the DX80 via COAX, we can see that the volume is a tiny bit louder. That's not an issue. 

 However, I then checked the FR for the Bit perfect filter:

 DX80



 Phone




 So, can anyone perhaps shed some light as to why there is such a difference between the 2?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## sandalaudio

darren cotter said:


> I was taking my two-day old iDSD Black out of the coffee table draw and very lightly touched the volume control on the edge. This resulted in a tiny bit of the black color to come off revealing the silver underneath. It was hardly noticeable but decided to contact iFi to see if it was possible to purchase a replacement.
> 
> That was Saturday and today (Tuesday) a replacement has arrived free of charge. So a big thank you to iFi and especially Alix from the Tech Support department.


 
  
 I'm also quite happy with the down-to-earth attitude of the iFi service and support crew.
  
 Anyhow, having paint scratch off the volume knob may be a good thing, because it's so hard to see the volume position marker under the black paint...


----------



## sandalaudio

theos53 said:


> Can someone please explain this to me? I've been checking the FR for the iDSD BL in REW 5.19. I was just curious to see if there's a difference between using my phone (Hiby Music as the app) via OTG, or my DX80 via COAX.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Images
> ...


 
  
 I did a very rough quick check on my micro iDSD BL with a PCM 96kHz 24 bit sweep for USB Class 2 and S/PDIF Coax.
 I used RME Fireface in ASIO 192kHz 24 bit mode for capturing, with 8192 sample Hanning window.
  
 Each filter mode shows different behaviour as expected, but I didn't see any difference between the USB v.s. Coax.
  
 I certainly didn't get any crazy rising high frequency response like your graph shows. If you had the sweep signal data and FFT windowing set up the same way for both USB and S/PDIF then I can't explain why you get such different results.


----------



## TheoS53

sandalaudio said:


> I did a very rough quick check on my micro iDSD BL with a PCM 96kHz 24 bit sweep for USB Class 2 and S/PDIF Coax.
> I used RME Fireface in ASIO 192kHz 24 bit mode for capturing, with 8192 sample Hanning window.
> 
> Each filter mode shows different behaviour as expected, but I didn't see any difference between the USB v.s. Coax.
> ...


 
 Thanks for your reply and additional tests. Yeah, I'm super confused about my results too.


----------



## sandalaudio

theos53 said:


> Thanks for your reply and additional tests. Yeah, I'm super confused about my results too.


 
  
 I guess someone from iFi can comment on it.
  
 Your data points look a bit too widely spaced out. Maybe you are picking up the sideband or aliasing due to a too wide FFT window?
 I hope it's not something simple like a EQ setting on the DX80.
  
 Maybe you can try doing a manual frequency sweep test with a signal generator program to make sure that the response is reproducible.
 I just tried both front 6.35mm and rear RCA, tried 96kHz 24bit and 44.1kHz 16bit, but the USB and S/PDIF results agree well.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Just got my Black Label and have it plugged in USB Windows 7  and plays fine from JRiver and using the WSAPI driver. I fully charged the unit so no light was on before hooking to my computer . I only have a green led light no matter if I am playing a DSD file or a FLAC or WMA file. I thought the color of the led's changed based on the file format ?
  
 What are the best setup choices with JRiver using this device since I am new to JRiver ? 
  
 I saw in this thread where someone replaced their volumne knob with one that has a white line what is the source for that knob ? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## technobear

functionaldoc said:


> Just got my Black Label and have it plugged in USB Windows 7  and plays fine from JRiver and using the WSAPI driver. I fully charged the unit so no light was on before hooking to my computer . I only have a green led light no matter if I am playing a DSD file or a FLAC or WMA file. I thought the color of the led's changed based on the file format ?
> 
> What are the best setup choiuces with JRiver using this device since I am new to JRiver ?
> 
> ...




Don't use WASAPI. Use ASIO.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Thanks. Any other special setups for use with JRiver?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I connected my USB cable to my computer then powered the unti on and now have a solid green light on the unit and even after not playing an sound for 10-15 minutes the green light stays on. I have RCA's out into a 3.5 mm jack that my desktop computer speakers are feed and I am in Preamp switched postion . I still have the unit in the on setting. 
  
 Will the LED go out sometime ? 
  
 I will be getting the iPurifier2  today and was wondering will i really notice any difference ? 
  
 What are the recommendations for burn in on this unit and what are some good sources for burn if required ? I get burn in on moving coil headphones but on soild state equipment does burn make a differernce or just a placebo effect ?  No trying to open a can of worms.
  
 Thanks


----------



## superuser1

Subbed


----------



## dobigstuff

functionaldoc said:


> Just got my Black Label and have it plugged in USB Windows 7  and plays fine from JRiver and using the WSAPI driver. I fully charged the unit so no light was on before hooking to my computer . I only have a green led light no matter if I am playing a DSD file or a FLAC or WMA file. I thought the color of the led's changed based on the file format ?
> 
> What are the best setup choices with JRiver using this device since I am new to JRiver ?
> 
> ...


 

 FunctionalDoc:
  
 I use JRiver DLNA to my Marantz NA 7004 Music Server.  I get 24/96khz.  I am at work right now but I will give you more info later.  Just make sure at the JRiver startup you go to the upper left corner and select Settings>then click DSP..... You should see AMI in the dropdown for Device>Then you can select your output format>then save.  You should get a Blue light for 4XDSD.  You can hold your mouse over the little EQ upper right to see output format. (should be 1 Bit 11.3 MHz) (I can't get 8X from my computer).  I only occasionally bring my Black into my office.
 Look through my photos you will see my settings as I use the EQ and Parametric EQ.


----------



## RAQemUP

Anyone else here use the micro iDSD with an iPhone? I heard that the iOS 10.3 beta had broken some usb hosting features which made it unusable with external DACs.

Did anyone do the official 10.3 update that just went live the other day and can check to see if it still recognizes the iDSD with the Apple CCK?

For now just sticking to 10.2 until it's cleared up.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

dobigstuff said:


> FunctionalDoc:
> 
> I use JRiver DLNA to my Marantz NA 7004 Music Server.  I get 24/96khz.  I am at work right now but I will give you more info later.  Just make sure at the JRiver startup you go to the upper left corner and select Settings>then click DSP..... You should see AMI in the dropdown for Device>Then you can select your output format>then save.  You should get a Blue light for 4XDSD.  You can hold your mouse over the little EQ upper right to see output format. (should be 1 Bit 11.3 MHz) (I can't get 8X from my computer).  I only occasionally bring my Black into my office.
> Look through my photos you will see my settings as I use the EQ and Parametric EQ.


 
 I don't see the setup photos. I will look for them later today.  
 Thanks


----------



## dobigstuff

functionaldoc said:


> I don't see the setup photos. I will look for them later today.
> Thanks


 

 In my photos I have a picture of the Parametric EQ settings.


----------



## dobigstuff

functionaldoc said:


> I don't see the setup photos. I will look for them later today.
> Thanks


 
 FunctionalDoc:
  
 Follow IFi Instructions to download the Driver before connecting the iDSD Black.
  
 Upper left corner Select "Tools" then "Options"  This screen will appear:

 Check AMR (notice mine is WASAPI as the ASIO doesn't work for me)
 Then go to Output Format:

 You can see I have Output Format, EQ and Parametric EQ checked on the left.  Notice my sample rate 96kHz.  To utilize the DSD you will click Output Decoding:

 Notice the 4X DSD.  This will give you the Blue Light on the iDSD Black.
  
 Then you want to "Save"
 Below is a photo of when I hover over the little EQ upper Rt Corner.  (Notice the output DSD 11.3 MHz 1 Bit)

  
  
 I hope this helps.


----------



## sandalaudio

functionaldoc said:


> Just got my Black Label and have it plugged in USB Windows 7  and plays fine from JRiver and using the WSAPI driver. I fully charged the unit so no light was on before hooking to my computer . I only have a green led light no matter if I am playing a DSD file or a FLAC or WMA file. I thought the color of the led's changed based on the file format ?
> 
> What are the best setup choices with JRiver using this device since I am new to JRiver ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The LED should turn to different colour depending on the format that you are sending.
 I just tried DSD64 and it's a blue/green mix, while DSD256 was blue.
  
 For JRiver (WASAPI or ASIO), you just need to go to
 Options > Audio > Audio Device and select the iFi (by AMR)...
  
 It should not matter whether you select WASAPI, ASIO, Kernel Streaming. They should all send bit perfect data and the LED light should change accordingly.
 You may have better success with one format or the other, depending on what other DAC drivers you have already installed on your computer.
  
 If you want to play DSD natively then you just need to choose:
 Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD)
 You don't need to turn on any other features.
  


dobigstuff said:


> FunctionalDoc:
> 
> Follow IFi Instructions to download the Driver before connecting the iDSD Black.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is a setting to convert a PCM file to DSD on the fly (real time sample rate conversion).
  
 It's unnecessary if your original music file is DSD to begin with.
  
 Everything in the DSP Studio should be turned off if you want to send the music natively to micro iDSD in its original format.


----------



## rbalcom

raqemup said:


> Anyone else here use the micro iDSD with an iPhone? I heard that the iOS 10.3 beta had broken some usb hosting features which made it unusable with external DACs.
> 
> Did anyone do the official 10.3 update that just went live the other day and can check to see if it still recognizes the iDSD with the Apple CCK?
> 
> For now just sticking to 10.2 until it's cleared up.




I installed the 10.3 update to my iPhone 7 and it still works fine with my Micro iDSD using the Apple CCK to connect it. Recognizes the iDSD and plays without any glitches or issues.


----------



## RAQemUP

rbalcom said:


> I installed the 10.3 update to my iPhone 7 and it still works fine with my Micro iDSD using the Apple CCK to connect it. Recognizes the iDSD and plays without any glitches or issues.




Thanks, man. That is great to hear.


----------



## iFi audio

raqemup said:


> Anyone else here use the micro iDSD with an iPhone? I heard that the iOS 10.3 beta had broken some usb hosting features which made it unusable with external DACs.
> 
> Did anyone do the official 10.3 update that just went live the other day and can check to see if it still recognizes the iDSD with the Apple CCK?
> 
> For now just sticking to 10.2 until it's cleared up.


 
  
 We have iOS10.3. All works fine on the apps below from Onkyo HF to Spotify. So you are good to go!
  

  
 As we are Made For iPhone (MFI) certified by Apple, we are privy to upcoming changes so iFi components typically work fine after new operating system updates.
  
 As always if anyone experiences an issue, please open a Support Ticket here: http://support.ifi-audio.com


----------



## RAQemUP

Thanks iFi for the clarification.


----------



## TheoS53

theos53 said:


> Can someone please explain this to me? I've been checking the FR for the iDSD BL in REW 5.19. I was just curious to see if there's a difference between using my phone (Hiby Music as the app) via OTG, or my DX80 via COAX.
> 
> Here are the 2 graphs:
> 
> ...


 
 perhaps @iFi-Audio could provide some insight


----------



## dobigstuff

sandalaudio said:


> The LED should turn to different colour depending on the format that you are sending.
> I just tried DSD64 and it's a blue/green mix, while DSD256 was blue.
> 
> For JRiver (WASAPI or ASIO), you just need to go to
> ...


 

 Sandalaudio:
 Thanks for the info.  I very rarely use the Black in my office with my computer (hence my DSP is on for 24/96 kHz to my Marantz NA 7004 Music Server.  If I do use the Black in the office I do select 4X DSD.
  
 Keep in mind, You do need to check the "Output Format" box if you want 4X DSD at 11.3 MHz 1 Bit.  The iFi LED will be Blue.
  
 Thanks, Again for the help.


----------



## TheoS53

Quick question. Firmware 5.2B is suppose to prevent the iDSD from trying to charge when connected to a phone, right?

 Because when I connect my BL to my S7, the blue light is on, and it seems to drain the hell out of my phone's battery. I must've dropped 4% in less than 10 minutes.


----------



## BillsonChang007

theos53 said:


> Quick question. Firmware 5.2B is suppose to prevent the iDSD from trying to charge when connected to a phone, right?
> 
> 
> Because when I connect my BL to my S7, the blue light is on, and it seems to drain the hell out of my phone's battery. I must've dropped 4% in less than 10 minutes.




Yes it prevents charging from source when playing. Turn on the unit before connecting for it to work


----------



## TheoS53

billsonchang007 said:


> Yes it prevents charging from source when playing. Turn on the unit before connecting for it to work


 
 Ah right. I wasn't turning it on before connecting. Thanks


----------



## hemipowered007

Question, all the sudden it doesn't seem like I can charge my ifi. When plugged into a pc, or a wall charger, the blue light comes on for a second then just goes off. When I've charged it previously it stayed on. Hoping this is something dumb I'm not looking at


----------



## BillsonChang007

theos53 said:


> Ah right. I wasn't turning it on before connecting. Thanks



Sure thang! 



hemipowered007 said:


> Question, all the sudden it doesn't seem like I can charge my ifi. When plugged into a pc, or a wall charger, the blue light comes on for a second then just goes off. When I've charged it previously it stayed on. Hoping this is something dumb I'm not looking at



Erm... could it mean that it have already fully charged?


----------



## hemipowered007

billsonchang007 said:


> Sure thang!
> Erm... could it mean that it have already fully charged?




No it wouldn't charge at all. Tried again later, it's flash blue then red. I don't have the owners manual handy will have to check it when I get home.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

hemipowered007 said:


> No it wouldn't charge at all. Tried again later, it's flash blue then red. I don't have the owners manual handy will have to check it when I get home.


 
 Look at this :
 http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/iFi-SmartPower-micro-iDSD-21-Aug-2014.pdf
  
 See if that will answer your question.


----------



## RAQemUP

ifi audio said:


> We have iOS10.3. All works fine on the apps below from Onkyo HF to Spotify. So you are good to go!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So after doing the 10.3 iOS update, no matter what music app I use, seemingly at random audio will completely drop. This is with no other apps open in the background on my iPhone 7 plus 256 gb. Music will play fine until it just stops and does not return on its own. When you look at the screen, you can still see that the music is still playing just with no sound. I either have to hit pause and wait for over 5 seconds before hitting play and then the sound will return on its own or turn the micro iDSD off and on.

This happens with both the old CCK and the newer usb 3 CCK.


----------



## iFi audio

sandalaudio said:


> I guess someone from iFi can comment on it.
> 
> Your data points look a bit too widely spaced out. Maybe you are picking up the sideband or aliasing due to a too wide FFT window?
> I hope it's not something simple like a EQ setting on the DX80.
> ...


 
  
 We agree with the measurements you provided.
  
 We can't explain the results the OP shows, but something's off.
  
 In any case, if the source is bit-perfect (without any DSP along the road) there can't be any measured frequency response or level change compared to the same test signal played via phone.


----------



## iFi audio

raqemup said:


> So after doing the 10.3 iOS update, no matter what music app I use, seemingly at random audio will completely drop. This is with no other apps open in the background on my iPhone 7 plus 256 gb. Music will play fine until it just stops and does not return on its own. When you look at the screen, you can still see that the music is still playing just with no sound. I either have to hit pause and wait for over 5 seconds before hitting play and then the sound will return on its own or turn the micro iDSD off and on.
> 
> This happens with both the old CCK and the newer usb 3 CCK.


 
  
 It's for the best to use our Support Ticket System, to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com
  
 Our staff will take care of your case, no worries!


----------



## TheoS53

ifi audio said:


> We agree with the measurements you provided.
> 
> We can't explain the results the OP shows, but something's off.
> 
> In any case, if the source is bit-perfect (without any DSP along the road) there can't be any measured frequency response or level change compared to the same test signal played via phone.


 
 I used REW to generate this wav file (which is 48kHz/16-bit Pink noise with 65536 sequence length), and so used the exact same file for each test. Perhaps @iFi audio could check it out with that file.


----------



## sandalaudio

theos53 said:


> I used REW to generate this wav file (which is 48kHz/16-bit Pink noise with 65536 sequence length), and so used the exact same file for each test. Perhaps @iFi audio could check it out with that file.


 
  
 Pink noise (unlike White noise) does not have a flat frequency spectrum, so it should not generate a ruler-flat plot that you showed earlier.
  
 If you want to test for flatness in the frequency domain then you will need to use a sweep signal, because any kind of noise signal will be affected more significantly by the sampling and windowing function on the FFT.
  
 In any case, I tried both USB and Coax S/PDIF with different filter settings with your pink noise WAV file (on 192kHz/24bit A/D with 4096pt Hanning), and the USB and Coax S/PDIF are identical to each other. The only thing they show are the effects of the filter settings as they should.


----------



## TheoS53

sandalaudio said:


> Pink noise (unlike White noise) does not have a flat frequency spectrum, so it should not generate a ruler-flat plot that you showed earlier.
> 
> If you want to test for flatness in the frequency domain then you will need to use a sweep signal, because any kind of noise signal will be affected more significantly by the sampling and windowing function on the FFT.
> 
> In any case, I tried both USB and Coax S/PDIF with different filter settings with your pink noise WAV file (on 192kHz/24bit A/D with 4096pt Hanning), and the USB and Coax S/PDIF are identical to each other. The only thing they show are the effects of the filter settings as they should.


 
 Thanks for taking the time to check it out.

 I'm not quite sure why you say that Pink noise can't give a flat response, as I've used that same file multiple times to check for flatness, and I always get a near identical result to response graphs provided by manufacturers. So I'm not sure. 

 Anyways, I'll try the sweep as you suggested. Should that be a linear, log, or measurement sweep?


----------



## hemipowered007

functionaldoc said:


> Look at this :
> http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/iFi-SmartPower-micro-iDSD-21-Aug-2014.pdf
> 
> See if that will answer your question.




Thanks, it finally started charging, same charger, same outlet, blue light stayed on the entire time. I hope my unit isn't messing up. Time will tell. It's still under warranty so I'm not worried, if gladly buy a second one anyways. Love this thing


----------



## sandalaudio

theos53 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to check it out.
> 
> I'm not quite sure why you say that Pink noise can't give a flat response, as I've used that same file multiple times to check for flatness, and I always get a near identical result to response graphs provided by manufacturers. So I'm not sure.
> 
> Anyways, I'll try the sweep as you suggested. Should that be a linear, log, or measurement sweep?


 
  
 Sorry I didn't explain it well.
 Pink noise signal has a slope down as you go up in frequency (like shown on my plots), and they are designed to look flat when using a 1/3 octave band FFT, which is probably what you are using.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_noise

 There is nothing wrong with that approach (common in hardware FFT for room acoustic analysis etc), but it is not very good for checking the high frequency filter behaviour in D/A, because it is essentially an array of discrete bar graphs. You could pick up some aliasing issues around the nyquist frequency.
  
 I used a sweep signal with a Hanning window moving FFT, which is less prone to errors caused by discrete sampling bands.
  
 Anyhow, it doesn't explain the discrepancies you saw between USB and S/PDIF, but I thought it might be good to try other testing methods to figure out what's going on.


----------



## shempster

I'm having issues also after going to 10.3.  Don't think it's a ifi issue but a buggy iOS release.  Music stops randomly using Onkyo & Apple music player.  Also happens using bluetooth speaker.


----------



## iFi audio

theos53 said:


> I used REW to generate this wav file (which is 48kHz/16-bit Pink noise with 65536 sequence length), and so used the exact same file for each test. Perhaps @iFi audio could check it out with that file.


 
 Too many things to comment upon and we don't have enough resources to devote technical training. All we can say is that we measure on AP2 and our measurements have been corroborated by others. It's for the best to check with those measurements and work back.


----------



## 397324

Hi All
  
 A couple of questions. I've just got an iDSD Black and Audioquest NightOwl Carbon headphones. What would be the best first upgrade, an iCAN Se or an iUSB or iUSB 3.0?
  
 Also, is there any aftermarket USB cables to replace the original blue one, without using an adaptor at the iFi end?
  
 Regards
  
 Darren


----------



## FunctionalDoc

darren cotter said:


> Hi All
> 
> A couple of questions. I've just got an iDSD Black and Audioquest NightOwl Carbon headphones. What would be the best first upgrade, an iCAN Se or an iUSB or iUSB 3.0?
> 
> ...


 
 I bought the iFi Purfier 2 type A connector to avoid an adapter and connected with a Schiit Cable; 24$ US Link below. 
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IOWPOLG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 Cleaned up the USB to my Windows conputer and it sounds great .
 Rick


----------



## 397324

Hi Rick
  
 Thanks for the reply. The reason I didn't want to use an adaptor is I use my iDSD from my laptop and it sits beside me on the couch, so I don't want any extra connections wobbling about.
  
 I wondered if their was a company who could make a cable with my choice of connectors.
  
 Regards
  
 Darren


----------



## frogmeat69

It's basically an extension cable, so try to find one that's quality and the length you want.
  
 Something like this would work, https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-USB-Extension-Cable-10-Feet/dp/B0002Y6CYM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_147_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=GEC3DFRZSXPMYK13HF5C&th=1
  
 I wonder if the AudioQuest Dragon Tail would fit??? Anyone have both to try?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

darren cotter said:


> Hi Rick
> 
> Thanks for the reply. The reason I didn't want to use an adaptor is I use my iDSD from my laptop and it sits beside me on the couch, so I don't want any extra connections wobbling about.
> 
> ...


 
 The blue cable that comes with the unit has USB 3.0 cable with  DAC end needs a female and the other end is normal male USB .You don't need a cable since they give you one with the unit.


----------



## 397324

Yes, I have one, but I once saw them for sale for about £5. Wanted to improve on the quality of the cable with an aftermarket one.


----------



## balcy24

shempster said:


> I'm having issues also after going to 10.3.  Don't think it's a ifi issue but a buggy iOS release.  Music stops randomly using Onkyo & Apple music player.  Also happens using bluetooth speaker.


 
 I am now having the same issues since updating to 10.3. I use JRemote with my iPhone 6 Plus, Micro iDSD and T1s. It seems to happen near the end of tracks. The music continues to play but no sound. Hitting pause for a few seconds does fix it for a little while. It does not happen using JRemote directing with my iPhone and my Shure 846s.


----------



## phthora

What are the physical dimensions of this DAC/amp? I'm trying to find a Pelican case to fit this thing before I buy it. Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

Hey Everyone!
  
 Our team is looking to setup a new event that's a bit different from what we've done in the past. Be sure to check out all the details!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/843833/introducing-ifi-audios-community-appreciation-tour


----------



## TheoS53

phthora said:


> What are the physical dimensions of this DAC/amp? I'm trying to find a Pelican case to fit this thing before I buy it. Thanks!


 
 You'll need the 1060


----------



## shempster

Yea, same issue exactly. I forgot that it looks like the music is still playing in the app but no sound. Definitely think it's an iOS issue.


----------



## Dobrescu George

So I am part of 99 Neo tour and I was writing a review for them. They I got the chance to hear 99Neo + iDSD Micro BL together... This is my honest reaction
  


dobrescu george said:


> And now I have to rewrite my review for 99 Neo lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dobrescu George

I'll be quoting myself again like the loner I am then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


dobrescu george said:


> My actual level of excitement over this combo:
> 
> I caught only two hours of sleep last night. A combination of going to sleep late due to work and having to wake up for more work as Easter is coming led me to sleep only two hours. I had to work for the past eight hours and then I barely managed to make time to pick iDSD BL up. Romania celebrates Easter and we need to make space in our work schedule to afford a few days of time off, so I was in one of the worst moods I've been in a while due to all this fatigue.
> 
> ...


----------



## TheoS53

dobrescu george said:


> So I am part of 99 Neo tour and I was writing a review for them. They I got the chance to hear 99Neo + iDSD Micro BL together... This is my honest reaction


 
  
  


dobrescu george said:


> I'll be quoting myself again like the loner I am then


 
 This is partly why I got the BL for myself. As I do more and more reviews, I thought it only fair to get one of the best (_the_ best?) portable DAC/AMP combos to use when testing headphones and IEMs, as it'll allow me to experience those items under their best conditions.


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> This is partly why I got the BL for myself. As I do more and more reviews, I thought it only fair to get one of the best (_the_ best?) portable DAC/AMP combos to use when testing headphones and IEMs, as it'll allow me to experience those items under their best conditions.


 
  
 Totally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Having literally heard HA-2, Ha-1, Wa22 and the list can go on, I can safely say that this thing is te thing that got me most enthused from them all. 
  
 I fell asleep after one - two more hours due to extreme fatigue. iDSD alone managed to keep me around 5 hours awake even though I didn't have two hours of sleep today! There's no device I would recommend better as a DAC / AMP in the entire range of devices tested, regardless of their price. Literally


----------



## Dobrescu George

This thing doesn't get warm at all - not during usage nor during charging! 

 I'm impressed! 

 How do we charge it btw? Simply turn it off while it is connected to the computer and the blue light non pulsating means it is charging?


----------



## TheoS53

dobrescu george said:


> This thing doesn't get warm at all - not during usage nor during charging!
> 
> I'm impressed!
> 
> How do we charge it btw? Simply turn it off while it is connected to the computer and the blue light non pulsating means it is charging?


 
 Leave it playing on a bed and it'll get a bit warm..but not HOT. 
 Yup, that's how you charge it. Or plug it onto the AC adapter for your smartphone


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> Leave it playing on a bed and it'll get a bit warm..but not HOT.
> Yup, that's how you charge it. Or plug it onto the AC adapter for your smartphone


 
  
 Coming from devices that are fire hazards, iDSD barely gets warm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Let's see if I can connect my smartphone. Uhm... An OTG to iDSD's blue cable should do the trick, right? 

 There is something in the package that I don't really understand. 
  
 One of the things is a connector kinda thingy that is in a silvery small electro isolation, one thing is kinda similar to that and one looks like a cap of sorts that looks like it should connect to something and has a small plastic cap on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't seem to have any of those connectors on my lappy and I'm not sure what they do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To connect iDSD to FiiO X5ii, to use X5ii as a transport I would need another cable, no?


----------



## TheoS53

dobrescu george said:


> Coming from devices that are fire hazards, iDSD barely gets warm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Huh? Why would you need to use the blue cable to connect it to your phone? The iDSD has a male USB connector, a standard OTG cable has a female USB connector. No need for the blue cable.


----------



## Dobrescu George

theos53 said:


> Huh? Why would you need to use the blue cable to connect it to your phone? The iDSD has a male USB connector, a standard OTG cable has a female USB connector. No need for the blue cable.


 
  
 Oh... You're right! 
  
 My OTG fits perfectly! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems that I should be going back to sleep for now - way too little sleep for me these days


----------



## CoffeeDog

Well, my review of the Black Label is finally up.  As were so many others, I was blown away by this little unit, and think it has a markedly noticeable improvement in sound versus the original iDSD Silver.   http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/18405
  
 Thank you iFi for letting me post my review a bit late.  I'm a 59 year old college student in physics, and I don't have much time for anything else.  iFi was aware of this and let me evaluate one anyway.  I didn't really have time for much of an evaluation either, much to my disappointment. 
  
 Unfortunately, I also have the budget of a college student, which will soon be strained further by the necessary and required (if my wife asks, this is NECESSARY and REQUIRED, right?) purchase of a Black Label edition or even (OK, dreaming here) a Pro iDSD.  I of course can't speak to the latter, but the BL really is that good.  Why hasn't music always sounded like this?


----------



## TheoS53

coffeedog said:


> Well, my review of the Black Label is finally up.  As were so many others, I was blown away by this little unit, and think it has a markedly noticeable improvement in sound versus the original iDSD Silver.   http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/18405
> 
> Thank you iFi for letting me post my review a bit late.  I'm a 59 year old college student in physics, and I don't have much time for anything else.  iFi was aware of this and let me evaluate one anyway.  I didn't really have time for much of an evaluation either, much to my disappointment.
> 
> Unfortunately, I also have the budget of a college student, which will soon be strained further by the necessary and required (if my wife asks, this is NECESSARY and REQUIRED, right?) purchase of a Black Label edition or even (OK, dreaming here) a Pro iDSD.  I of course can't speak to the latter, but the BL really is that good.  Why hasn't music always sounded like this?


 
 Great review. 

 And kudos for, at your "royal vintageness", going back to college. I do assume, of course, that you're _back_ at college, and not _still_ in college.


----------



## CoffeeDog

theos53 said:


> Great review.
> 
> And kudos for, at your "royal vintageness", going back to college. I do assume, of course, that you're _back_ at college, and not _still_ in college.


 

 Heh heh.  Thanks Theo!  And yes, I am "_back_" in college.  Also, "_still_"!  Things are different, yet the same.  _*Back then*_, we had 'beer pong'.  *Now* it's 'beer bongs'.  _*Then *_it was 'wet T-shirt contests', _*now *_it's wet 'T-back contests'.  _*Then *_it was 'find opposite gender; have sex', and _*now *_it is 'be opposite gender; have sex'.  *Back then*: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Heal injuries and try not to repeat.  *Now* its: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Collect injuries and unable to repeat.
  
 And math.  Lots and lots of math.


----------



## TheoS53

coffeedog said:


> Heh heh.  Thanks Theo!  And yes, I am "_back_" in college.  Also, "_still_"!  Things are different, yet the same.  _*Back then*_, we had 'beer pong'.  *Now* it's 'beer bongs'.  _*Then *_it was 'wet T-shirt contests', _*now *_it's wet 'T-back contests'.  _*Then *_it was 'find opposite gender; have sex', and _*now *_it is 'be opposite gender; have sex'.  *Back then*: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Heal injuries and try not to repeat.  *Now* its: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Collect injuries and unable to repeat.
> 
> And math.  Lots and lots of math.


 
 Haha, yeah, times sure have changed. But believe me, get stuck in that math. It's not about the numbers, it's about training your brain to think logically. But heck, you're studying physics..I don't need to tell you that 

 Back in South Africa the pass mark for maths is 20% (nope, that's not a typo)...no wonder the country and government is in the state it is.


----------



## Dobrescu George

coffeedog said:


> Well, my review of the Black Label is finally up.  As were so many others, I was blown away by this little unit, and think it has a markedly noticeable improvement in sound versus the original iDSD Silver.   http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/18405
> 
> Thank you iFi for letting me post my review a bit late.  I'm a 59 year old college student in physics, and I don't have much time for anything else.  iFi was aware of this and let me evaluate one anyway.  I didn't really have time for much of an evaluation either, much to my disappointment.
> 
> Unfortunately, I also have the budget of a college student, which will soon be strained further by the necessary and required (if my wife asks, this is NECESSARY and REQUIRED, right?) purchase of a Black Label edition or even (OK, dreaming here) a Pro iDSD.  I of course can't speak to the latter, but the BL really is that good.  Why hasn't music always sounded like this?


 
  
 I hope you'll be able to get what you're dreaming ! 

 I have no idea how Pro sounds like, but iDSD is a dream device!
  
 I'm also a theoretically a student although I'm kinda at the end of the thing and spending way more time on my working on projects in my company at https://www.facebook.com/seventh.heart.studios/ than being a student. Being married while a student, my university days have been different from what 99% of people usually experience


----------



## Dobrescu George

Quoting myself again like the loner I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  


dobrescu george said:


> I had to travel for a few hours today
> 
> The road trip would had been quite boring if it weren't for the meze 99 Classics (my main headphone) and iDSD BL!
> 
> ...


----------



## apaar123

Should I buy a soundcard if I am already buying this?


----------



## XSAMURAI

apaar123 said:


> Should I buy a soundcard if I am already buying this?


 
 the answer is no , you don't need any other sound card except good digital analog converter & headphone amp


----------



## apaar123

xsamurai said:


> the answer is no , you don't need any other sound card except good digital analog converter & headphone amp


So ifi black will be perfect for me?c


----------



## Dobrescu George

apaar123 said:


> So ifi black will be perfect for me?c


 
  
 ifi iDSD BL would be perfect for almost anyone!
  
 It has enough power and control to drive the most sensitive thing I have around - ie80 and the hardest to drive as well. 
  
 Makes ie800 sound better and it gives it sweetness in the mids and energy. 
  
 It also makes Meze 99 Classics sound like the sweetest headphone ever! 
  
 I'm not sure if there is a single headphone it cannot drive to be honest. Seems to drive virtually anything I've thrown at it quite well.


----------



## Topspin70

I see quite a few familiar 'faces' from the BL tour thread here. Thought I bring my curiosity to this thread:
  
 Anyone knows why the Standard filter isn't recommended for listening in the manual, but for measurement instead?
  
 I'm asking cuz I actually think it sounds best. I know many of you would say just trust my ears and ignore the specs. I can't agree more. But still I'm curious.
  
 An early post from @iFi audio on this thread explained the science behind the filters, so perhaps something to do with Standard producing a better sine wave?


----------



## Dobrescu George

topspin70 said:


> I see quite a few familiar 'faces' from the BL tour thread here. Thought I bring my curiosity to this thread:
> 
> Anyone knows why the Standard filter isn't recommended for listening in the manual, but for measurement instead?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've no idea to be honest. 

 If it has a larger number of taps, it should be better for listening actually 

 I think that Standard sounds best as well, it seems to provide a better texture and micro detail quality to those ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My wildest guess is that Standard applies a bit of bitrate upsampling


----------



## Topspin70

For those who don't know what we're talking about. It's this post about the filters from @iFi audio. And I just realised it was a conversation with you @Dobrescu George 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you for your kind words.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dobrescu George

topspin70 said:


>


 
  
 Woah

 Thank you for finding that one! It explains a lot actually. Seems that I would generally have to find out which one I prefer better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I want to do even more experiments! 

 Will report back after I manage to get consistent results 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I hope everyone's having lots of fun as well!


----------



## hemipowered007

I do not like the standard filter much at all EXCEPT when listening to a poorly recorded track/album. It softens the overall sound making it a lot easier to listen to. All while but perfect will really show you how bad the recording is. The he4, and for now my 1more triple and have b3p1 aren't overly analytical headphones by default, so for me bitperfect typically stays on 95% of the time. I do like the xbass and other booster as they can really make something more fun to listen to, as long as the hp is capable. Those "boosters" are a lot more useful on my he4 with the ifi as a dac/preamp to my sx1010 as the he4 is a very capable headphone. Anyhow, great device once again. It's just a perfect piece for me and my setup


----------



## Topspin70

hemipowered007 said:


> I do not like the standard filter much at all EXCEPT when listening to a poorly recorded track/album. It softens the overall sound making it a lot easier to listen to. All while but perfect will really show you how bad the recording is. The he4, and for now my 1more triple and have b3p1 aren't overly analytical headphones by default, so for me bitperfect typically stays on 95% of the time. I do like the xbass and other booster as they can really make something more fun to listen to, as long as the hp is capable. Those "boosters" are a lot more useful on my he4 with the ifi as a dac/preamp to my sx1010 as the he4 is a very capable headphone. Anyhow, great device once again. It's just a perfect piece for me and my setup


 

 Thanks for sharing your experience. Indeed, things do sound more accurate in Bit-perfect mode. But oddly, my headphones had the reverse effect with yours, with Standard sounding bigger, bolder and a bit more up-close than BP. I wonder if it all comes down to pairing synergy.


----------



## technobear

topspin70 said:


> I see quite a few familiar 'faces' from the BL tour thread here. Thought I bring my curiosity to this thread:
> 
> Anyone knows why the Standard filter isn't recommended for listening in the manual, but for measurement instead?
> 
> ...




From the Crowd-Design thread (now the Black Label thread):



ifi audio said:


> *Software Design Update (5)*
> 
> Digital and Analogue Filters - have it your way
> 
> ...


----------



## Topspin70

technobear said:


> From the Crowd-Design thread (now the Black Label thread):


 

 Awesome! This is exactly the info I'm looking for. This explains everything.
  
 And seems like my preferences are opposite of the manufacturers. Haha. I'll have another listen to the 3 filters and see whether my idea of what sounds good is susceptible to new info.


----------



## Dobrescu George

topspin70 said:


> Awesome! This is exactly the info I'm looking for. This explains everything.
> 
> And seems like my preferences are opposite of the manufacturers. Haha. I'll have another listen to the 3 filters and see whether my idea of what sounds good is susceptible to new info.


 
  
 I'm really curious about whether my idea of what sounds good is susceptible to new information as well! 
  
 Well, back to enjoying and listening to this little witchery box


----------



## shempster

shempster said:


> I'm having issues also after going to 10.3.  Don't think it's a ifi issue but a buggy iOS release.  Music stops randomly using Onkyo & Apple music player.  Also happens using bluetooth speaker.


 

 IOS update out yesterday - 10.3.1 I think.  Hope this fixes the issues I've seen with music playback & other stuff.


----------



## xLoud

Right now I have Fiio X3 2nd Gen(For outdoor use), iBasso D14(Used as a DAC with PC at home) paired with Schiit Magni 2(AMP). I was looking to upgrade the DAC, then decided to replace all of them iFi iDSD Micro. iDSD is powerful enough to use it with my HifiMan HE-400i, and I can use it as a portable dac/amp with my mobile. 
 Am I wrong to replace all of them with iFi iDSD?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

xloud said:


> Right now I have Fiio X3 2nd Gen(For outdoor use), iBasso D14(Used as a DAC with PC at home) paired with Schiit Magni 2(AMP). I was looking to upgrade the DAC, then decided to replace all of them iFi iDSD Micro. iDSD is powerful enough to use it with my HifiMan HE-400i, and I can use it as a portable dac/amp with my mobile.
> Am I wrong to replace all of them with iFi iDSD?


 
 I have the HE-400I  and Black label can drive it with ease on Eco or Normal power setting.  IMO a little big for portable rig unless you use in a back pack .I don't have that big of pants pockets. Great device that I use on my computer at home and can drive anything you throw at it with ease and built like a tank. I was lucky enough to find on sale new for $399 which made even a better deal. Can't go wrong as it is the Swiss army knife of DAC/Amp combo that happens to be transportable. I love the bass boost switch and I am not a bass head.


----------



## hemipowered007

xloud said:


> Right now I have Fiio X3 2nd Gen(For outdoor use), iBasso D14(Used as a DAC with PC at home) paired with Schiit Magni 2(AMP). I was looking to upgrade the DAC, then decided to replace all of them iFi iDSD Micro. iDSD is powerful enough to use it with my HifiMan HE-400i, and I can use it as a portable dac/amp with my mobile.
> Am I wrong to replace all of them with iFi iDSD?




It sounds a lot better than the fiio x3. And runs me he4 very well even on normal. Turbo helps and didn't even get them to clip. I don't listen terribly loud anyways. But it's a really good device and wel worth it


----------



## xLoud

I am going for Silver version, not the Black Label Edition. I am not a regular traveller, I travel may be once in a month and a backpack always accompany me. So, portability is never going to be much of an issue at all.


----------



## iFi audio

topspin70 said:


> Anyone knows why the Standard filter isn't recommended for listening in the manual, but for measurement instead?


 
  
 Sound quality is subjective. And on top of that, perception of reproduced sound quality is also a learned response. So one may initially prefer a result that matches the learned expectation of "good sound" as opposed to the more real or natural sound.
  
 We do not recommend the standard filter, because in our experience it sound less natural, less like real music and more artificial. But we also recognise not everyone agrees. Hence the inclusion of the filter switch, to give the choice to an owner, rather than to force our preferred choice.
  
 To discuss the reasoning behind this, any filter is a trade-off between impulse response and frequency response. Specifically for CD and DSD64 sample rate... the problems are severe. CD should use at least an 11th order low pass filter at 20kHz with 0dB attenuation at 20kHz. And SACD/DSD theoretically needs a 7th order filter at 20kHz. Those are very severe slope filters right at the upper edge of the audible range. Neither filter is an easy proposition as analogue filter, so digital (FIR) filters are often employed.
  
 Further filters come in multiple "flavours". Namely we have infinite impulse response - IIR (ONLY analogue filters offer true IIR) and finite impulse response - FIR (only digital filters have this). Further, digital FIR filters may be designed with either symmetrical impulse response (the filter has equal pre- and post-ringing when presented with an impulse) or asymmetrical impulse response (the filter has more or less pre-ringing that post-ringing).
  

  
 This ringing "must" be added if such steep slope filters are employed. Even analogue filters only will show ringing. Now let us be 100% crystal clear. Adding ringing to an impulse is adding distortion. And a LOT of distortion. Most traditional digital filters add >10% distortion for a significant time after an impulse event.
  
 At AMR we produced a short paper focusing on filter options in the DP-777 DAC, however a read of this may also be beneficial here:
  

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/large_image/Tech%20Paper%203%20-%20Ringing.pdf
  
 Different manufacturers have different views and promote different solutions. Again, we have no desire to comment on specifics. Our preferred view however is that less added distortion is better in all domains, amplitude, frequency and time domain, if we desire a realistic, natural sound.
  
 Previously Head-Fi'er Earphonia measured the square wave response of the iDSD micro and posted it here. Comparing the response of the different filters is likely instructive:
  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/3045#post_11387805
  

  
  
 Stereophile USA often posts Impulse responses of DAC's. As example we shall refer to the AMR DP-777, as it offers many different filters. It showcases most possible filter responses:
  

http://www.stereophile.com/content/abbingdon-music-research-dp-777-da-processor-measurements
  
 Many other DAC's can be found and compared.
  
 The audibility of these filter differences is a fairly hotly debated topic, something that often starts flame wars - which we have no desire to get involved with. But we hope that the above helps to understand a little better why there are choices and what they are.
  
 In the end the proof is in the listening and one should always use the filter setting one finds most enjoyable. If this is the "Standard / Measure" filter, well all the more power to you.


----------



## hemipowered007

ifi audio said:


> Sound quality is subjective. And on top of that, perception of reproduced sound quality is also a learned response. So one may initially prefer a result that matches the learned expectation of "good sound" as opposed to the more real or natural sound.
> 
> We do not recommend the standard filter, because in our experience it sound less natural, less like real music and more artificial. But we also recognise not everyone agrees. Hence the inclusion of the filter switch, to give the choice to an owner, rather than to force our preferred choice.
> 
> ...




This is why I am now and will be an ifi fanboy as long as you're making products. Thank you so much for always responding to questions here, it's great to hear from the creators of how and why certain functions were implemented. Also, thank you very very much for creating the black label, obviously you have a lot of major fans of it. Great job ifi!


----------



## dobigstuff

topspin70 said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. Indeed, things do sound more accurate in Bit-perfect mode. But oddly, my headphones had the reverse effect with yours, with Standard sounding bigger, bolder and a bit more up-close than BP. I wonder if it all comes down to pairing synergy.


 
 Topspin70:
 Just my input:  I had been using the iFi iDSD Black as a Dac.  Back on 3/3/17 for the first time I hooked it to my computer (nothing special HP Envy).  I downloaded the Driver and connected the iDSD Black.
 I use jRiver.  The Blue indicator input Light showing on the iDSD Black confirmed DSD 256 11.3 MHz.   
  
 With the DSD setup, I could actually hear the differences in the Digital Filters.  (When I use Digital coax out from my Marantz NA 7004 into the iDSD Black there is no significant audible difference in the filters). But listening to DSD here is what I perceive:  Bit Perfect seems warmest nothing is too harsh or bright (Can listen all day).  Minimum Phase adds punch, smooth Mids and Highs and a bit wider soundstage.  Standard adds a little bit more punch, smooth Mids as well Tight Bass clean highs.
 (Headphones:  HD 700 w/Black Dragon v2 Cable)


----------



## Dobrescu George

xloud said:


> Right now I have Fiio X3 2nd Gen(For outdoor use), iBasso D14(Used as a DAC with PC at home) paired with Schiit Magni 2(AMP). I was looking to upgrade the DAC, then decided to replace all of them iFi iDSD Micro. iDSD is powerful enough to use it with my HifiMan HE-400i, and I can use it as a portable dac/amp with my mobile.
> Am I wrong to replace all of them with iFi iDSD?


 
   
 Well, I'm pretty sure that iDSD is a great device! You can still use X3-2 as your transport so you can get best of both worlds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


functionaldoc said:


> I have the HE-400I  and Black label can drive it with ease on Eco or Normal power setting.  IMO a little big for portable rig unless you use in a back pack .I don't have that big of pants pockets. Great device that I use on my computer at home and can drive anything you throw at it with ease and built like a tank. I was lucky enough to find on sale new for $399 which made even a better deal. Can't go wrong as it is the Swiss army knife of DAC/Amp combo that happens to be transportable. I love the bass boost switch and I am not a bass head.


 
  
 I don't think anybody in this worlds has pants large enough to be able to use iFi iDSD BL in their pockets. A side bag will do, even a small one that's meant for accessories or a camera bag should do well


----------



## Dobrescu George

earfonia said:


> Today I played around with the filter settings of iDSD micro, monitored by simple USB oscilloscope (Velleman PCSU200). So line output of the micro iDSD goes direct to USB oscilloscope input (1 Mohm input impedance).
> 
> Line Output setting: Direct
> Power Mode: Normal
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much for providing those measurements! 

 The DAC Filters now make a lot of sense


----------



## Dobrescu George

ifi audio said:


> Sound quality is subjective. And on top of that, perception of reproduced sound quality is also a learned response. So one may initially prefer a result that matches the learned expectation of "good sound" as opposed to the more real or natural sound.
> 
> We do not recommend the standard filter, because in our experience it sound less natural, less like real music and more artificial. But we also recognise not everyone agrees. Hence the inclusion of the filter switch, to give the choice to an owner, rather than to force our preferred choice.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much! 

 This is a very well-though answer to a question that's really been on my mind for a lot of time! 
  
 Seems that you guys thought things through and I really appreciate this! It is nice to have the option and I feel that giving the option to the user will always be a blessing!


----------



## Topspin70

ifi audio said:


> Sound quality is subjective. And on top of that, perception of reproduced sound quality is also a learned response. So one may initially prefer a result that matches the learned expectation of "good sound" as opposed to the more real or natural sound.
> 
> We do not recommend the standard filter, because in our experience it sound less natural, less like real music and more artificial. But we also recognise not everyone agrees. Hence the inclusion of the filter switch, to give the choice to an owner, rather than to force our preferred choice.
> 
> ...


 

 Double thumbs up to you guys as always. Such a detailed explanation, and done with great respect to your customers, acknowledging the diverse tastes and opinions (scarier than taste IMO) that exist out there! For me it's very educational. I can't ask for more. 
  
 As for the filters, it appears my learned expectation of good sound is wide enveloping soundstage and tight detailed yet smooth sound, which is what I hear from the Standard filter. So thanks for including that option in the BL.


----------



## Topspin70

dobigstuff said:


> Topspin70:
> Just my input:  I had been using the iFi iDSD Black as a Dac.  Back on 3/3/17 for the first time I hooked it to my computer (nothing special HP Envy).  I downloaded the Driver and connected the iDSD Black.
> I use jRiver.  The Blue indicator input Light showing on the iDSD Black confirmed DSD 256 11.3 MHz.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh I see. So our set up and usage are quite different. I'm using the BL as a one-box solution, and playing mainly red book files and tidal (presumably PCM). But your description of the filters during DSD playback is consistent with what I hear from my music, especially "Standard adds a little bit more punch, smooth Mids as well Tight Bass clean highs", which is what I found appealing. @iFi audio detailed post shed more light into the differences. Truly educational.


----------



## earfonia

dobrescu george said:


> Thank you very much for providing those measurements!
> 
> The DAC Filters now make a lot of sense


 
  
 I did more test on the filters here if you're interested:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/833933/ifi-micro-idsd-black-label-in-depth-review#post_13221621


----------



## Dobrescu George

earfonia said:


> I did more test on the filters here if you're interested:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/833933/ifi-micro-idsd-black-label-in-depth-review#post_13221621


 
  
 Woah 

 Thank you very much for pointing to this post! 

 It would be good to make an entire thread for iDSD BL with those measurements since I was looking for this information! Awesome findings and tests you did there! Now a lot of things make more sense! Also, the test seem to make iDSD BL a great device!


----------



## Topspin70

While on the subject of the BL functions, I like to share my experience regarding the power mode options.
  
 Many reviews and comments talk about their varying ability to drive phones to certain loudness, but not many talk about their effects on quality (unless I missed all those that did). Through my 300ohm HD800S, Eco is more than enough to drive it to enjoyable levels with volume at 1 o'clock. But with Normal, with volume at 11 o'clock to achieve similar loudness, the sound is much more dynamic, notes more defined and textured, bass more pronounced and musical nuances more evident.
  
 Overall feeling is that SQ is more detailed and realistic using Normal as compared to Eco, even if it means using less of the volume pot range, which I believe @iFi audio usually encourages owners to use more of it cuz it is designed to perform best that way. My conclusion is consistent with that of my iCAN SE which I set at mid gain. Naturally, how far we go on the volume knob will change with different headphones, but the experience I'm sharing is that quality matters as much as loudness when choosing a power mode to drive your phones. 
  
 The album is used for A/B-ing is Laura Nyro Live at Loom's Desire. Try it and just listen to those piano notes, the nuances of her voice as well as the quality of the back up singers' voices. Goosebumps! Have a go and enjoy!


----------



## Dobrescu George

topspin70 said:


> While on the subject of the BL functions, I like to share my experience regarding the power mode options.
> 
> Many reviews and comments talk about their varying ability to drive phones to certain loudness, but not many talk about their effects on quality (unless I missed all those that did). Through my 300ohm HD800S, Eco is more than enough to drive it to enjoyable levels with volume at 1 o'clock. But with Normal, with volume at 11 o'clock to achieve similar loudness, the sound is much more dynamic, notes more defined and textured, bass more pronounced and musical nuances more evident.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I noticed this as well actually. The texture and clarity and dynamism / realism is better on normal for me as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The music I used was a bit more energetic, guitar textures are felt really fast with certain types of music and I gotta say, I favor normal and no iEMatch engaged for best results - the sound is sweet this way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I love iDSD BL + Meze 99 Classics with the 3D setting engaged and even with X-Bass setting engaged for certain songs. Gives the listener a true rush this thing! 

 Also asked my brother who is more of a casual music listener to give iDSD a try with his music and his IEMs. He fell in love with BL after one minute and told me that this is one of the most incredible DAC/AMPs he heard to date as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Slowly converting him to the enthusiastic music listener part of things. Any minute now


----------



## Topspin70

It's hard not to love the BL so I don't think you need to try too hard  @Dobrescu George
  
 BTW Anyone here leave the BL on all the time, while connected to the powered USB? I understand from an old ifi post that the unit goes to sleep after 15 mins when there's no signal. Can I presume there's no harm leaving it on all day then?


----------



## earfonia

dobrescu george said:


> Woah
> 
> Thank you very much for pointing to this post!
> 
> It would be good to make an entire thread for iDSD BL with those measurements since I was looking for this information! Awesome findings and tests you did there! Now a lot of things make more sense! Also, the test seem to make iDSD BL a great device!


 
  
 You're most welcome! BL is a great DAC! I really like it.
  
  


topspin70 said:


> While on the subject of the BL functions, I like to share my experience regarding the power mode options.
> 
> Many reviews and comments talk about their varying ability to drive phones to certain loudness, but not many talk about their effects on quality (unless I missed all those that did). Through my 300ohm HD800S, Eco is more than enough to drive it to enjoyable levels with volume at 1 o'clock. But with Normal, with volume at 11 o'clock to achieve similar loudness, the sound is much more dynamic, notes more defined and textured, bass more pronounced and musical nuances more evident.


 
  
 Agree on this. I suspect that at Normal mode, micro iDSD uses higher voltage power supply for the amp, therefore it improves the slew rate of the amp. Just my guess.


----------



## Topspin70

earfonia said:


> You're most welcome! BL is a great DAC! I really like it.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree on this. I suspect that at Normal mode, micro iDSD uses higher voltage power supply for the amp, therefore it improves the slew rate of the amp. Just my guess.




Oh yes. I recall higher impedance cans need more voltage to sound best. But were you referring to voltage for the amp or the cans? (I have to read up about slew rate).


----------



## earfonia

topspin70 said:


> Oh yes. I recall higher impedance cans need more voltage to sound best. But were you referring to voltage for the amp or the cans? (I have to read up about slew rate).


 
 Not about output voltage, but power supply voltage for the amplifier. Usually higher supply voltage for amplifier will improve the amplifier slew rate, making it faster in transient. Therefore sounds more dynamic and realistic.


----------



## Topspin70

earfonia said:


> Not about output voltage, but power supply voltage for the amplifier. Usually higher supply voltage for amplifier will improve the amplifier slew rate, making it faster in transient. Therefore sounds more dynamic and realistic.




Thanks for explaining. That definitely sounds like the improvement from the Normal mode.


----------



## potatoe94

not sure if this has been discussed . But i feel my iFi iDSD Micro has Left Right Imbalance even with volume turned to 10-11 o clock . 

 Running IEMs through the iFi iDSD Micro , i set ECO + iEMatch Low , and the iEMatch switch below is so wobbly , especially in the low setting . Whenever the switch has been moved lightly , the right channel occasionally becomes louder . which becomes some sort of an annoyance especially so if i bring it around 60% of the time . Even at when played on the desk , the left channel is slightly louder . 

 Although i don't hope anyone else is facing the same issue , but my warranty is over and i don't quite think this is normal :/


----------



## Dobrescu George

potatoe94 said:


> not sure if this has been discussed . But i feel my iFi iDSD Micro has Left Right Imbalance even with volume turned to 10-11 o clock .
> 
> Running IEMs through the iFi iDSD Micro , i set ECO + iEMatch Low , and the iEMatch switch below is so wobbly , especially in the low setting . Whenever the switch has been moved lightly , the right channel occasionally becomes louder . which becomes some sort of an annoyance especially so if i bring it around 60% of the time . Even at when played on the desk , the left channel is slightly louder .
> 
> Although i don't hope anyone else is facing the same issue , but my warranty is over and i don't quite think this is normal :/


 
  
 I really hope you can get it sorted out! 

 iFi is good with their customers in general, maybe the repairs are inexpensive even though your warranty is over for now


----------



## xLoud

Is it possible to connect Google Pixel(USB Type C) with ifi iDSD?


----------



## iFi audio

potatoe94 said:


> not sure if this has been discussed . But i feel my iFi iDSD Micro has Left Right Imbalance even with volume turned to 10-11 o clock .
> 
> Running IEMs through the iFi iDSD Micro , i set ECO + iEMatch Low , and the iEMatch switch below is so wobbly , especially in the low setting . Whenever the switch has been moved lightly , the right channel occasionally becomes louder . which becomes some sort of an annoyance especially so if i bring it around 60% of the time . Even at when played on the desk , the left channel is slightly louder .
> 
> Although i don't hope anyone else is facing the same issue , but my warranty is over and i don't quite think this is normal :/


 
  
 Please ope a cupport ticket via our Support platform, to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 I'm sure we'll be able to help you out from there.


----------



## potatoe94

ifi audio said:


> Please ope a cupport ticket via our Support platform, to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/
> 
> I'm sure we'll be able to help you out from there.




I've sent my unit to Stereo Singapore , they mentioned that they will contact you guys to give a quotation of the repair to me sometime today or tomorrow . 

Hope i can get some sort of repair discounts for being such a committed iFi supporter !


----------



## earfonia

potatoe94 said:


> not sure if this has been discussed . But i feel my iFi iDSD Micro has Left Right Imbalance even with volume turned to 10-11 o clock .
> 
> Running IEMs through the iFi iDSD Micro , i set ECO + iEMatch Low , and the iEMatch switch below is so wobbly , especially in the low setting . Whenever the switch has been moved lightly , the right channel occasionally becomes louder . which becomes some sort of an annoyance especially so if i bring it around 60% of the time . Even at when played on the desk , the left channel is slightly louder .
> 
> Although i don't hope anyone else is facing the same issue , but my warranty is over and i don't quite think this is normal :/


 
  
 I have similar issue with my silver micro iDSD. Here is my measurement in comparison to the review sample of micro iDSD Black-Label:
  

  

  
 Besides that the IEMatch switch of my iDSD also glitchy and need to be replaced. Currently I so busy so don't have time to go to Stereo to check how much is the cost to repair my iDSD volume and iEMatch switch.


----------



## potatoe94

earfonia said:


> I have similar issue with my silver micro iDSD. Here is my measurement in comparison to the review sample of micro iDSD Black-Label:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Holy molly ... This is interesting data , i know that this LR imbalance is significantly lower in the BL when they sent it to me for the singapore tour .

Truth be told , no other dacamps sounds anywhere like the idsd . Which is why i love them so much . 

Would it make sense for me to get a 75ohm impedance adaptor for me to turn up the volume a little . Im currently running the xelento with idsd .

May i also know roughly what dial position is 250mV at ?


----------



## earfonia

potatoe94 said:


> Holy molly ... This is interesting data , i know that this LR imbalance is significantly lower in the BL when they sent it to me for the singapore tour .
> 
> Truth be told , no other dacamps sounds anywhere like the idsd . Which is why i love them so much .
> 
> ...


 
  
 Using 75 ohms adapter is similar to raise the output impedance by 75 ohms. For some IEMs, the effect could be very very bad. But since Xelento is single dynamic, it might be ok with the high output impedance.


----------



## thrand1

If you all wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts...

What's the approximate "headphone:iDSD Micro" price ratio for your setup? For example, if your headphones were $500 and the iDSD Micro was $500 it would be a 1:1 ratio...

I am just asking because I have the potential (through gift cards) to get the iDSD Micro BL for about $400. My IEMs (Shure SE425) retailed for $300, so I am wondering if the Micro is "too much" given my existing setup.

My research into better headphones really seems to indicate anything at 400-600 dollars would largely be a sidestep- maybe a change in sound signature, but not so much in overall performance. I have been using only my iPhone so far as a source for my high-res library, so I am reaching the conclusion that maybe something like the Micro would be great for versatility for my current IEMs and potentially any other headphones I add down the line!

Any thoughts on your "ratio" of headphoneAC/AMP price (or DAC/AMP price:headphones if you wish  ) and what you would do in my situation?


----------



## Dobrescu George

thrand1 said:


> If you all wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts...
> 
> What's the approximate "headphone:iDSD Micro" price ratio for your setup? For example, if your headphones were $500 and the iDSD Micro was $500 it would be a 1:1 ratio...
> 
> ...



I really like iDSD BL + ie800, but I also like iDSD BL + Meze 99 Classics. Both setups bring me equal amounts of joy albeit they each have their sound. 

Shure Se425 is not the most resolving IEM, but adding iDSD BL would surely improve their sound. As for recommending a similar headphone or IEM, I'm not a shure master, so it is hard to tell. 

This is how iFi setup looks like for walking BTW: 

(In case you were wondering, it is very portable)


----------



## Topspin70 (Apr 28, 2017)

thrand1 said:


> If you all wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts...
> 
> What's the approximate "headphone:iDSD Micro" price ratio for your setup? For example, if your headphones were $500 and the iDSD Micro was $500 it would be a 1:1 ratio...
> 
> ...



I started this hobby with 2 channel stereo, and the prevailing wisdom I adopted until now is to buy the most transparent speakers (headphones/iems in our case) that you can afford. This allows you to listen to the full potential of your gear upstream (source/dac/amp/cables). This would be my recommendation to you.

I bought my HD800S to pair with another system, but using it with the BL, I can hear the BL's true character and it makes me go totally wow! I also use the BL with my Viso HP50 and ZA Duoza, both which are quite resolving. So ratio-wise, mine goes from 3:1 to 1:1 to 0.2:1. (Note: the Duoza is way more transparent than the HP50 so it's low ratio score is not at all indicative of how well it performs)

I'm not suggesting go spend crazy money on cans, but try audition and find the most transparent and resolving that you can afford. Hope this helps!


----------



## flyte3333

Hi all. 

With the DSD analogue filters for the iDSD, which is the least filtered option, extreme or standard?

For PCM I understand the least filtered option is the 'bit perfect' mode which is essentially a NOS mode, with no filtering.

But what is the equivalent of the 3 analogue filters for DSD?

Many thanks in advance


----------



## 329161

What are the physical dimensions of the BL? Pretty much the only thing holding me from pulling the trigger vs the Mojo is portability


----------



## MattTCG

I measure 2.5" x 6.0".  I actually like it as a portable over the mojo. The idsd is very similar in dimensions to my phone, just thicker. The mojo is more awkward and doesn't stack as well. ymmv


----------



## Dobrescu George

dcfac73 said:


> What are the physical dimensions of the BL? Pretty much the only thing holding me from pulling the trigger vs the Mojo is portability



It is extremely portable, I'm quite happy with how easy it is to carry it around and enjoy music while on the go. 

I think I posted a few pictures recently to highlight this. 

















My personal take, buy you cannot really ask for more portability from a stack, especially in my case with that sidebag. 



MattTCG said:


> I measure 2.5" x 6.0".  I actually like it as a portable over the mojo. The idsd is very similar in dimensions to my phone, just thicker. The mojo is more awkward and doesn't stack as well. ymmv



I totally agree. Mojo stacks worse despite being shorter, probably because it is thicker and the stack sits worse in the pocket. I actually can carry and pull iDSD BL out of my bag easily, it doesn't get damaged from ear or anything, but Mojo is too short and will get stuck in my sidebag. This is a thing that you have to experience to know, but iDSD BL is really portable


----------



## flyte3333 (Apr 29, 2017)

gixxerwimp said:


> From the iDSD manual:
> 
> PCM (digital filter)Bit-PerfectMinimum-PhaseStandardDSD (analog filter)ExtremeExtendedStandard
> 
> ...



Hi @iFi audio

I haven't been able to see if this was clarified at all, for the iDSD vs iDAC2. Particularly for understanding the iDSD DSD filters.

Appreciate if you can help !

Cheers


----------



## flyte3333

Hi all, another question

Does an Audioquest Jitterbug female end nicely into the iDSD's male USB port?

Thinking of going direct from USB hub to the iDSD with a hard adapter. The Jitterbug's build quality would be better than any of the cheap hard adapters out there.

If anyone could try and take a photo for me, that would be greatly appreciated !

Cheers!


----------



## technobear

Em2016 said:


> Hi @iFi audio
> 
> I haven't been able to see if this was clarified at all, for the iDSD vs iDAC2. Particularly for understanding the iDSD DSD filters.
> 
> ...



I was going to point you to the first post in the Black Label thread for links to most of the answers for most of the questions you might have. Sadly the move to new forum software seems to have screwed up the index found there which is going to make it tough to find stuff from now on. Presumably this is going to break links to single posts all over the forum.

The Black Label thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/i...etails-page-147-release-info-page-153.711217/

Next plan of attack was to look in my own archive for the necessary post and then search for it in the thread. Sadly the move to new forum software seems to have removed that particular feature too.

The global search seems to be very simplistic and is incapable of searching for a phrase.

Here from my archive is what iFi said about filters:





I sure hope there is more to come from this new forum software. It seems like a huge step backwards right now.


----------



## technobear

Em2016 said:


> Hi all, another question
> 
> Does an Audioquest Jitterbug female end nicely into the iDSD's male USB port?
> 
> ...



Forget Jitterbug. The iPurifier2 Type A is the one you want.


----------



## flyte3333 (Apr 30, 2017)

technobear said:


> Forget Jitterbug. The iPurifier2 Type A is the one you want.



Thanks mate, but I'd still need a cheap hard adapter to go with the iPuriifer2. As above, I don't really need the Jitterbug for it's jitter stuff.

I'm looking for a well made type A female to type A male adapter. The Jitterbug is that, but somebody has told me recently the Jitterbug doesn't fit into the iDSD sadly.

What hard adapters are people using? I've seen posts where people have opened up those cheap hard adapters from eBay and they'd used steel wire inside.... eep

I'm looking for a single hard adapter to go between a microRendu and iDSD.


----------



## flyte3333

Franatic said:


> ++1
> 
> I love my "old" micro idsd...........would have a hard time justifying a purchase of the new one. I would love to see an owner's comparison of them. Has that been done yet?



Hi Franatic, I saw your earlier posts about the Forza hard adapter for the iDSD/Regen.

Could you kindly post some photos of the adapter? Is it a short cable or a hard adapter?

Many thanks!


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Thanks mate, but I'd still need a cheap hard adapter to go with the iPuriifer2. As above, I don't really need the Jitterbug for it's jitter stuff.
> 
> I'm looking for a well made type A female to type A male adapter. The Jitterbug is that, but somebody has told me recently the Jitterbug doesn't fit into the iDSD sadly.
> 
> ...



The iDSD comes with a blue USB cable male A - female A. It's a very good quality cable that you can use between the mR and iDSD. 

Do note, your mR will get very HOT. It measures 39C when used with my yggy, but reaches up to 45C in just minutes with the iDSD. Unless you use battery mode, but it will mean you'll have to charge it elsewhere when not listening. Just thought you should be aware.


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> The iDSD comes with a blue USB cable male A - female A. It's a very good quality cable that you can use between the mR and iDSD.
> 
> Do note, your mR will get very HOT. It measures 39C when used with my yggy, but reaches up to 45C in just minutes with the iDSD. Unless you use battery mode, but it will mean you'll have to charge it elsewhere when not listening. Just thought you should be aware.



Understood, the iDSD needs 5V VBUS power continuously, so the LPS-1 feeding the mR will probably run warm too.


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Understood, the iDSD needs 5V VBUS power continuously, so the LPS-1 feeding the mR will probably run warm too.



It probably will, although I use the HDPLEX instead of the LPS-1. But it's the mR that iconcerns me. Admittedly I'm one of those guys on the mR thread who doesn't like the mR go red hot, so it depends on what your comfort level with heat and electronics. 

Back to the iDSD, it's supposed to have a smart feature that stops drawing power once the battery is full. So I dunno whether it's entirely true that it draws power continuously.


----------



## flyte3333 (May 1, 2017)

Topspin70 said:


> It probably will, although I use the HDPLEX instead of the LPS-1. But it's the mR that iconcerns me. Admittedly I'm one of those guys on the mR thread who doesn't like the mR go red hot, so it depends on what your comfort level with heat and electronics.
> 
> Back to the iDSD, it's supposed to have a smart feature that stops drawing power once the battery is full. So I dunno whether it's entirely true that it draws power continuously.



Are you using the fixed 9V output of your HDPLEX to the iDSD? Or the user adjustable output set to 7V?

I know that the mR running on 9V power does get hot. I'm not a fan of that either (or any electronics getting hot).

I didn't know that the iDSD runs off battery when full. I'll look around for more info on that.

Regarding the cable iFi provide, I prefer really short hard adapters over cables if possible. It's very difficult to find a well made one though.


----------



## Wyd4

If anyone is after an iDSD Black Label and lives over here in Australia, drop me a line, I have mine up for sale on the For Sale Forums here.
Selling for no other reason than I have the iCAN SE and as I no longer listen on the move at all, so half of the iDSD is being neglected.

Absolutely love the sound!!


----------



## 397324 (May 1, 2017)

Is there much sonic benefit in adding the ICAN SE to an iDSD Black setup? 

Alternatively, an iUSB P/S to maximise the iDSD first?

I'm using Audioquest NightOwl headphones.


----------



## Topspin70 (May 1, 2017)

Em2016 said:


> Are you using the fixed 9V output of your HDPLEX to the iDSD? Or the user adjustable output set to 7V?
> 
> I know that the mR running on 9V power does get hot. I'm not a fan of that either (or any electronics getting hot).
> 
> ...



You probably meant the HDPLEX to mR? Larry of HDPlex customised a fixed output to 7V for my mR. Before that, the mR ran much hotter being powered by an iPower 9V. But still not as hot as it was when the iDSD was attached to it.

Here's some information about the technology behind the iDSD battery. It's pretty impressive, and shows that the guys at ifi do think of everything. (Update: reading them again, it seems the current drawn by the iDSD depends on the presence of signal and not when it's full as I had mentioned earlier. Have a read, you will probably understand the write-up better than me.)

http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/



iFi audio said:


> *SmartPower® Some say, it is so smart it should have a PhD.*
> Ahead of the global launch on 28 July, this article sheds some light on SmartPower*®* which is the complete battery power management/Smart device recharge functionality of the micro iDSD.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> You probably meant the HDPLEX to mR? Larry of HDPlex customised a fixed output to 7V for my mR. Before that, the mR ran much hotter being powered by an iPower 9V. But still not as hot as it was when the iDSD was attached to it.
> 
> Here's some information about the technology behind the iDSD battery. It's pretty impressive, and shows that the guys at ifi do think of everything. (Update: reading them again, it seems the current drawn by the iDSD depends on the presence of signal and not when it's full as I had mentioned earlier. Have a read, you will probably understand the write-up better than me.)
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/



Yep sorry my mistake, HDFLEX powering the iDSD via the mR of course.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Nice choice in cans there I can see in your signature - I love HD800S's too.


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> You probably meant the HDPLEX to mR? Larry of HDPlex customised a fixed output to 7V for my mR. Before that, the mR ran much hotter being powered by an iPower 9V. But still not as hot as it was when the iDSD was attached to it.
> 
> Here's some information about the technology behind the iDSD battery. It's pretty impressive, and shows that the guys at ifi do think of everything. (Update: reading them again, it seems the current drawn by the iDSD depends on the presence of signal and not when it's full as I had mentioned earlier. Have a read, you will probably understand the write-up better than me.)
> 
> http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/



Hmmm the way I read it, that all applies to running the iDSD on battery mode. Not on USB power mode. I was never great at English comprehension in school though so I could easily be wrong


----------



## flyte3333 (May 1, 2017)

From iFi: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-november-2016/?do=findComment&comment=626143

_*0.2) *USB Power - turn on iDSD micro AFTER attaching the USB connection. This state is ‘latched’ regardless of connection/disconnection of USB until the iDSD micro is turned off or loses power from a flat battery. If the USB Host does not provide sufficient power to operate the difference will be drawn from the battery. If there is more power available than needed to operate the iDSD micro, it will be used to charge the battery if the battery requires charging.
_
*2) Continuous use in USB mode*
_*2.1) *Preparation - Make sure to let the iDSD micro charge fully over a > 12 Hour period switched off to make sure the battery is at maximum charge. Disconnect iDSD micro and reconnectet while switched off. The LED should turn blue for a few seconds, then go off. If the LED stays blue it means the previous charge process timed out before the battery was full, in this case investigate your USB cable and charger/port used, as they may provide insufficient power.
*2.2) *Operation - Turn on iDSD micro after connecting the USB cable. Leave turned on permanently. Make sure that the USB Audio stream cuts off when not using the iDSD micro Audio and the iDSD micro goes into sleep mode.
Then, if attached to a BC1.2 USB port, operation is ‘forget about it’ and completely transparent. If attached to a standard USB Port ‘forget about it’ use is limited to Eco & Normal power modes._

My interpretation of that is when used in USB mode (like powered by the microRendu) power is fully provided by USB power - the battery is only re-charged when in USB mode. The iDSD battery is never discharging when in USB mode. Except maybe in Turbo mode when attached to a standard USB port (if I understand that last part above correctly?).

This might explain why your mR runs hot? It is continuously providing power to the iDSD? Maybe?

My mR is LPS-1 powered so I'm not bothered if the iDSD is battery powered or LPS-1 powered (via the mR) at any stage, but it's interesting to know.


----------



## flyte3333

Is up sampling to DSD512 to the iDSD on MacOS possible yet?

I saw posts on old iDSD threads from 2014 saying DSD512 is only supported on Windows via ASIO.

Has anything changed since then? Or still restricted to Windows with the iDSD?


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> From iFi: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-november-2016/?do=findComment&comment=626143
> 
> _*0.2) *USB Power - turn on iDSD micro AFTER attaching the USB connection. This state is ‘latched’ regardless of connection/disconnection of USB until the iDSD micro is turned off or loses power from a flat battery. If the USB Host does not provide sufficient power to operate the difference will be drawn from the battery. If there is more power available than needed to operate the iDSD micro, it will be used to charge the battery if the battery requires charging.
> _
> ...



Your interpretation is right. The iDSD is drawing power continuously from the mR to keep the battery un-discharged. It's a very smart feature, but just happens to heat up the mR. I now connect the iDSD direct to my PC and heat is no longer problem at all. 

I failed to mention that despite my issue with the heat, the iDSD + mR combo is amazing and sounds fantastic. And yes, the HD800S is extraordinary, especially when paired with the iDSD + mR combo.


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> Your interpretation is right. The iDSD is drawing power continuously from the mR to keep the battery un-discharged. It's a very smart feature, but just happens to heat up the mR. I now connect the iDSD direct to my PC and heat is no longer problem at all.
> 
> I failed to mention that despite my issue with the heat, the iDSD + mR combo is amazing and sounds fantastic. And yes, the HD800S is extraordinary, especially when paired with the iDSD + mR combo.



Fantastic !


----------



## 397324

Darren Cotter said:


> Is there much sonic benefit in adding the ICAN SE to an iDSD Black setup?
> 
> Alternatively, an iUSB P/S to maximise the iDSD first?
> 
> I'm using Audioquest NightOwl headphones.




Anyone? I'm really interested in this.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Sorry, Darren, Haven't tried them. To be honest, I have been amazed by how good iDSD BL can sound so far and I've been using it daily and for a few hours a day the past few days. An amazing device, but I'm curious about your questions as well!


----------



## Tomo-chan

Darren Cotter said:


> Anyone? I'm really interested in this.


I read on the ifi site the idsd has a ipurifier built in. Nobody is stopping you from double-ipurifying your system though


----------



## FunctionalDoc

It sounds amazing  the Ipurifier 2 with my Black label and love the way it sounds. I haven't tested without the Purifier 2 yet.


----------



## MattTCG

I have heard good things about the Ipurifier 2 but figured that it might be counter productive given that the BL already has that technology built in. I tried using iusb in chain with my BL and I was getting some weirdness and occasional pops and clicks. Without the iusb everything sounds great again.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

the use of Ipurifier 2 has not caused any noise in my system and the one built in according to iFi is version 1 and not as complete.


----------



## Topspin70

Are u using a iP2 with USB A connector? Or the more common B connector with a hard adaptor in between?


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Using the USB A version with the Schiit PYST cable and works great.


----------



## Topspin70

FunctionalDoc said:


> Using the USB A version with the Schiit PYST cable and works great.



That's great. I should get a A version too and give it a try.


----------



## 397324

Hi Topspin70

I was looking at your signature and wondered if you ever tried your iCAN SE with your iDSD Black?

Regards

Darren


----------



## Topspin70

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi Topspin70
> 
> I was looking at your signature and wondered if you ever tried your iCAN SE with your iDSD Black?
> 
> ...



Strangely I haven't, as I think the built-in amp is doing quite an amazing job. Plus the amp specs are quite similar if I'm not mistaken. No doubt the iCAN SE being powered and running Class A should have a slight edge. I'll give it a try this weekend and see if I can note a difference.


----------



## 397324

Thanks. Looking forward to the outcome. I am also considering the iUSB 3.0. The thinking is to maximise the iDSD Black before considering anything else.


----------



## Topspin70

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks. Looking forward to the outcome. I am also considering the iUSB 3.0. The thinking is to maximise the iDSD Black before considering anything else.



That's a wise decision. All too easy to get carried away adding more gear to the chain. Like the iTube2... yum.

I'll post my impressions soon.


----------



## MattTCG

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi Topspin70
> 
> I was looking at your signature and wondered if you ever tried your iCAN SE with your iDSD Black?
> 
> ...



If you don't mind, I've tried the two together and can share a few thoughts. Long story short, you'll get better performance from adding the ican se. It's true class A with serious driving power and control. The ican se has a more nuances and a layered presentation. Spatial cues and subtle details are fairly effortless.It also throws a bigger sound stage for width and depth (although the difference here is not huge). 

The ability to have three positions with the xbass was a big plus for me and made this feature more useful for me. The first position, or low, with xbass on the ican is subtle but effective. And the high xbass with the ican is similar to what you get on the BL. I found myself using either low or high depending on the music type in every situation. 

While the BL never gets above room temperature, the ican se gets quite hot, so be prepared for that. The DAC on the BL is impressive and surely it's best feature, while still having a pretty good amp. The amp section on the ican se is as impressive as is the DAC section on the BL. Hope that puts it in perspective.


----------



## 397324

Hi

Thanks so much for your help.

Regards

Darren


----------



## thrand1

Dobrescu George said:


> I really like iDSD BL + ie800, but I also like iDSD BL + Meze 99 Classics. Both setups bring me equal amounts of joy albeit they each have their sound.
> 
> Shure Se425 is not the most resolving IEM, but adding iDSD BL would surely improve their sound. As for recommending a similar headphone or IEM, I'm not a shure master, so it is hard to tell.
> 
> ...





Topspin70 said:


> I started this hobby with 2 channel stereo, and the prevailing wisdom I adopted until now is to buy the most transparent speakers (headphones/iems in our case) that you can afford. This allows you to listen to the full potential of your gear upstream (source/dac/amp/cables). This would be my recommendation to you.
> 
> I bought my HD800S to pair with another system, but using it with the BL, I can hear the BL's true character and it makes me go totally wow! I also use the BL with my Viso HP50 and ZA Duoza, both which are quite resolving. So ratio-wise, mine goes from 3:1 to 1:1 to 0.2:1. (Note: the Duoza is way more transparent than the HP50 so it's low ratio score is not at all indicative of how well it performs)
> 
> I'm not suggesting go spend crazy money on cans, but try audition and find the most transparent and resolving that you can afford. Hope this helps!



Thanks to Topspin and DobrescuGeorge for your feedback. It seems like you both are getting great use out of your respective setups. I have about $500 or less to spend...but it seems a lot of the IEMs I could consider upgrading to would be closer to $1,000, so I have been thinking of getting a great amp/DAC now would cover my needs for a long time no matter what headphones I get. What do you think?

To the rest of the thread: I've also seen the Silver Micro is now available for $399 from authorized seller Beach Camera through Amazon! I could get this item essentially for free after giftcards...but I occasionally have also seen the BL for a similar price through Adorama when they have brief sales. What do you all think- snag the Silver now (despite some measurements showing channel imbalance for IEMs at lower levels), or bide time and wait for another potential BL sale?


----------



## Topspin70

MattTCG said:


> If you don't mind, I've tried the two together and can share a few thoughts. Long story short, you'll get better performance from adding the ican se. It's true class A with serious driving power and control. The ican se has a more nuances and a layered presentation. Spatial cues and subtle details are fairly effortless.It also throws a bigger sound stage for width and depth (although the difference here is not huge).
> 
> The ability to have three positions with the xbass was a big plus for me and made this feature more useful for me. The first position, or low, with xbass on the ican is subtle but effective. And the high xbass with the ican is similar to what you get on the BL. I found myself using either low or high depending on the music type in every situation.
> 
> While the BL never gets above room temperature, the ican se gets quite hot, so be prepared for that. The DAC on the BL is impressive and surely it's best feature, while still having a pretty good amp. The amp section on the ican se is as impressive as is the DAC section on the BL. Hope that puts it in perspective.



Thanks for sharing your impression. I got curious after Darren's question and tried it out myself, and I can say I'm in total agreement with your assessment. I can't describe as well as you could, but I definitely notice a tad more texture, separation and authority to the music. Not by a big margin when I use the stock blue interconnects, but the difference is more pronounced when I switch to my better cables. Ok, I shan't go any further about cables as I have come to realise that doing so in head-fi is equivalent to jumping headlong into a lake of piranhas. (A unique phenomenon that I have yet to understand but, for my own sake, rather choose not to know.)


----------



## Topspin70

thrand1 said:


> Thanks to Topspin and DobrescuGeorge for your feedback. It seems like you both are getting great use out of your respective setups. I have about $500 or less to spend...but it seems a lot of the IEMs I could consider upgrading to would be closer to $1,000, so I have been thinking of getting a great amp/DAC now would cover my needs for a long time no matter what headphones I get. What do you think?




Not a bad idea, in which case I think you can't do any better than the BL. Besides the myriad of features to suit whatever cans and IEMs you get in future, its sonically worth at least twice its price or more IMHO.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I confirm with Topsin70 

You cannot really go any better than iDSD BL right now for your money, and even for 1000$ you probably can't go any better. For the record, I did test it against pretty much everything in the ~1000$ area and it is pretty much the winner to my ears. 

Getting better IEMs should be a first order of business as well, but depending on what you're rocking now, you should consider that iDSD BL is a device you will use with IEMs from ie800 all the way to HD800S, so there's no end to the fun it can provide and no end to its versatility as far as a portable or even desktop setup goes.


----------



## 397324

I ended up purchasing the iCAN SE after Matt's (Topspin70) reply. I've got some Forza Audioworks interconnects to replace the stock blue ones. 

All I need now is to find a USB to replace the stock one that doesn't need an adaptor as I use my iDSD beside me on the couch and I think using an adaptor would be too wobbly.


----------



## Topspin70

Darren Cotter said:


> I ended up purchasing the iCAN SE after Matt's (Topspin70) reply. I've got some Forza Audioworks interconnects to replace the stock blue ones.




Congrats on your new purchase. You're gonna love it. (Poison alert) The iPower 15V does a great job powering it. But down the road, when upgradetitis hits, you can consider getting a LPS for it. You'll discover even more of what the iCAN SE can do with the BL.


----------



## 397324

Thanks. What's the LPS?


----------



## Topspin70

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks. What's the LPS?



Linear Power Supply. A good one lowers electronic noise, giving your music blacker backgrounds, and enhances clarity and details. There's a few popular brands among head-fiers: Teddy Pardo, HDPlex, etc.


----------



## 397324

I was planning to go the iFi IUSB 3.0 route. Will this be better?


----------



## Topspin70

Darren Cotter said:


> I was planning to go the iFi IUSB 3.0 route. Will this be better?



Sorry I might have confused you. The LPS suggestion is to replace at a later stage the 15V iPower that comes with your new iCAN SE. The iUSB supplies only 5V which is suitable for the iDSD. You should definitely continue with that plan.


----------



## 397324

Thanks for the clarification. Makes total sense. Could the LPS power my future iUSB as well?


----------



## Topspin70

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Makes total sense. Could the LPS power my future iUSB as well?



Depends on the output voltage of the LPS. Not sure what V the iUSB requires. HDPlex 100W comes with 4 individual rails, 2 of which are adjustable. That might be your best bet. Larry the boss can customise each output to suit your devices. So you have one LPS to power them all. 

On that note, I wish @iFi audio would make a single power source that powers their multiple devices. So many of us have ifi stacks. A whole bunch of iPowers by the wall socket doesn't seem the neatest solution.


----------



## technobear

Topspin70 said:


> Linear Power Supply. A good one lowers electronic noise, giving your music blacker backgrounds, and enhances clarity and details. There's a few popular brands among head-fiers: Teddy Pardo, HDPlex, etc.



...but very few, if any, are anywhere near as quiet as the iFi supply which comes with the iCAN SE.


----------



## Topspin70

technobear said:


> ...but very few, if any, are anywhere near as quiet as the iFi supply which comes with the iCAN SE.



Good point. Unless one is willing to spend on an LPS that costs way more than the iCAN SE. Which probably wouldn't make sense to some.


----------



## iFi audio (May 4, 2017)

thrand1 said:


> ...despite some measurements showing channel imbalance for IEMs at lower levels...



We've covered this matter previously, yet since it comes back once in a while, so do we.

To paint a properly broad picture, the volume increase from 9 to 12 o'clock is about 20 dB SPL or so and the same thing happens while pushing from 12 to 6 o'clock. Yes, about 40 dB in total, which is A LOT.

Now let's address this imbalance you've mentioned. It only becomes noticeable if the iDSD micro is not set correctly. It should be possible to set the volume to around 12 o'clock or more for normal listening levels with *ANY *IEM & headphones by setting Power Mode & iEMatch correctly. Sitting at 9 o'clock listening level translates to trying to run a Porsche Engine that tops out at 7400 RPM at 74 RPM. Not optimal at all. 

Additionally, after the feedback from the early iDSD micro customers (which highlighted the imbalance issue at low levels) we have improved the QC process specifically with respect to channel matching at lower volume settings.

Most silver iDSD micro have the same behavior as the Black Label, only very early production may have included some outliers that are now routinely screened out during production.


----------



## iFi audio

Anyone suspects what this critter might be all about?


----------



## Dobrescu George

What is going on with the fluffy animals? I mean it, I've no idea what this is all about! 

As for the channel imbalance, I actually noticed it as well, but it is exactly as iFi said, and as I've noticed after using iDSD BL: It is better to use another Powah / iEMatch combination, or reduce the digital volume with a lossless volume controller if you need. I've owned a few AMPs through the years and anything with an analogue volume pot will have some channel imbalance at the start of the volume pot track. 

One thing is for sure, it doesn't bother me one bit, and I've been using iDSD BL with IEMs and hard to drive headphones as well and never had a problem with the volume pot thingy. I was actually worried about the volume pot and how sensitive it is to being carried in a pocket and such, but it's been three weeks now and two of those weeks of heavy portable usage, iDSD BL hold up flawlessly. It has been a great partner for me as I went through a lot of business related work and had to travel around. FiiO X5ii + iDSD  BL + Meze 99 Classics is a agile and versatile setup to those ears!


----------



## Topspin70

iFi audio said:


> Anyone suspects what this critter might be all about?



Groundhog? Meaning something is about to happen again? Like a good kind of deja vu I'm guessing.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Topspin70 said:


> Groundhog? Meaning something is about to happen again? Like a good kind of deja vu I'm guessing.



New generation of products from iFi ? 

But Why Groundhog? Is it a representative animal for iFi? 

Now I can quote and add pictures! 

Feel the power of quotations!


----------



## Suopermanni

Topspin70 said:


> Groundhog? Meaning something is about to happen again? Like a good kind of deja vu I'm guessing.



What I HOPE it means is some news about the iDSD Pro DAC and not a meaning that we'll be waiting forever for it.


----------



## Topspin70

Suopermanni said:


> What I HOPE it means is some news about the iDSD Pro DAC and not a meaning that we'll be waiting forever for it.



I'd be a little concerned if their state-of-the-art flagship DAC is represented by a chubby furry animal.


----------



## phthora

I think he was just expressing frustration at having to address the same concerns over and over again when they have long since become a non-issue. Good thing there is a search function for threads or this kind of needless repetition would be much more of a problem.

Oh wait...


----------



## thrand1

iFi audio said:


> We've covered this matter previously, yet since it comes back once in a while, so do we.
> 
> To paint a properly broad picture, the volume increase from 9 to 12 o'clock is about 20 dB SPL or so and the same thing happens while pushing from 12 to 6 o'clock. Yes, about 40 dB in total, which is A LOT.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this post, and I apologize if rehashing it unnecessarily. I would like to make my purchase "right the first time", and a lot of it has to do with value of buying either Nano LE or iDSD Micro or (save even longer) for iDSD BL for my IEMs (Shure SE425). Would be great if this purchase was the "last" I have to make in terms of DAC/AMP, so yours, and everyone else's feedback on my situation is always greatly appreciated. I also appreciate the iFi staff taking the time to write such detailed responses. It is very difficult for me to decide so I am always open to PMs, replies to thread, anything.

Thanks again!


----------



## iFi audio

Dobrescu George said:


> What is going on with the fluffy animals? I mean it, I've no idea what this is all about!
> 
> As for the channel imbalance, I actually noticed it as well, but it is exactly as iFi said, and as I've noticed after using iDSD BL: It is better to use another Powah / iEMatch combination, or reduce the digital volume with a lossless volume controller if you need. I've owned a few AMPs through the years and anything with an analogue volume pot will have some channel imbalance at the start of the volume pot track.
> 
> One thing is for sure, it doesn't bother me one bit, and I've been using iDSD BL with IEMs and hard to drive headphones as well and never had a problem with the volume pot thingy. I was actually worried about the volume pot and how sensitive it is to being carried in a pocket and such, but it's been three weeks now and two of those weeks of heavy portable usage, iDSD BL hold up flawlessly. It has been a great partner for me as I went through a lot of business related work and had to travel around. FiiO X5ii + iDSD  BL + Meze 99 Classics is a agile and versatile setup to those ears!



We recommend going to 100% on the digital volume control. Simply because when it's at 50%, one can lose up to 2 bits of resolution. If you use i.e. Tidal, you pay for 16 Bits. Don't be satisfied with 14 Bits!


----------



## Dobrescu George (May 5, 2017)

iFi audio said:


> We recommend going to 100% on the digital volume control. Simply because when it's at 50%, one can lose up to 2 bits of resolution. If you use i.e. Tidal, you pay for 16 Bits. Don't be satisfied with 14 Bits!



That is a very healthy recommendation actually.

Seems that even editing your own post works now! Nice.

As I was saying, I do recommend this as well in general.

Best is to leave the digital volume at max for the best sound quality, but I do have an EQ enabled in my system most of times and this usually comes with some kind of negative gain to compensate for the values I'm adding to certain portions of the frequency range. I guess I got those mixed up by mistake (pre-EQ gain and digital volume), lack of sleep is one thing that's able to mess one's mind.

Oh yes, I've been listening to iDSD BL for the last few weeks, and I gotta say, the sound is lovely! My review for it will be up very shortly!


----------



## Faber65




----------



## 329161

So I decided to go for the BL. Extremely happy. Not a lot to split on between this and the Mojo on sq. I found when I turned the volume up on bass heavy tracks the Mojo would make the drivers shake, which I hate. I just want the sound. Will have to get used to the portability of the BL, or lack of it  
The sound of these 2 dac amp combos leaves everything else portable in the dust. The slam is incredible. 
Better battery power and features and connectivity sealed the deal for the ifi.


----------



## Dobrescu George

dcfac73 said:


> So I decided to go for the BL. Extremely happy. Not a lot to split on between this and the Mojo on sq. I found when I turned the volume up on bass heavy tracks the Mojo would make the drivers shake, which I hate. I just want the sound. Will have to get used to the portability of the BL, or lack of it
> The sound of these 2 dac amp combos leaves everything else portable in the dust. The slam is incredible.
> Better battery power and features and connectivity sealed the deal for the ifi.



I wholeheartedly agree. I prefer BL over Mojo, but I also prefer the mids of BL over Mojo. I actually speak about this a lot with BL, exactly the thing you mention. I feel that some DAC/AMPs cannot manage to keep a driver under control and the bass comes off distorted while with BL it has absolute control over the bass with my headphones and it makes the sound much more coherent in the bass. It is hard to explain, but it really looks like BL manages to make many other (well renowned) devices feel loose in their sound by direct comparison.


----------



## Topspin70

Faber65 said:


>




Dang, I should have guessed it. So obvious from the name. Looks like I can certainly use one of these.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I'm actually curious. I never minded grounding before in any of my setups, but it is indeed something to think about. 

My understanding is that this will be important especially when the setup is connected to an electrical source, I.E it works when your laptop or computer is plugged in, but a DAP that is used portably doesn't need further grounding. Is this correct?


----------



## Dobrescu George

By the way, I had the chance of testing the DAC in iDSD BL. I didn't think that I would ever like a DAC this much, but the realism of the sound, the way each detail in music is rendered effortlessly, the air between the instruments and the soundstage iDSD BL's DAC have is amazing! The closest or best description I can find / give for it is real. Life-like. There's nothing else I would use to describe that awesome sound. It does not sound analogue, it sounds real! This is the panaceea we, music lovers, are looking for with such enthusiasm!


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Nice pairing.

Amazing actually...


----------



## iFi audio (May 8, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> I'm actually curious. I never minded grounding before in any of my setups, but it is indeed something to think about.
> 
> My understanding is that this will be important especially when the setup is connected to an electrical source, I.E it works when your laptop or computer is plugged in, but a DAP that is used portably doesn't need further grounding. Is this correct?



If a DAC/AMP and a DAP both run on a battery and there are no other connections, then there is no need for a earth connection.

The ground connection (ground & earth ARE different) between a DAP and a DAC/AMP is all that is needed.

However, if ANY form of mains powered device is connected  also, then the earth connection comes into play, because the mains voltage is bonded and referenced to earth (yes, literally to the ball of dirt we live upon).

 

Three general possibilities exist if we connect a battery powered device to mains powered equipment:

1) If the connected device uses a 3-pin connection, then normally said connection also provides an earth to the other devices via ground connection (earth and ground become one). There are notable exceptions, for example some subwoofers.

In this case all is fine.

2) If a connected device uses a 2-pin connection then there is NO earth present, but the noise from the mains is conducted to the other devices via ground connection.

This case (which until recently was not common) is what we refer to as a "missing earth". This can cause noise, be it hum or other sound (like buzz caused by 'power line communications' used by electrical utilities to manage their networks)

3) A third case happens when more than one mains powered device is connected and more than one device uses a 3-pin plug.

In this case, multiple earth and ground connections form so-called earth- (or ground-) loops that can cause noise.

 

So, to be very clear; if there is no connection to mains power (ie. NO connection, not even with only a mains charger as this is STILL connected the mains) OR to any mains powered equipment (including laptop computers etc.) AND ONLY IF THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION to mains power, however indirectly, anything relating to Earth connections can be safely ignored.

Wherever mains power is connected, however indirectly, earth related problems may arise and may need to be resolved. Such problems may cause outright audible noise with varying levels - in other cases there may not be any audible noise, but merely with a negative impact on objective (measured) and subjective (audible) sound quality.

Where problems happen they have defined and distinct solutions. For case #3 (earth/ground loops) we have had a number of commercial solutions, including quite affordable ones readily available.

However, widely available solutions and especially affordable "order on Amazon" remedies for the above mentioned problem #2 were missing, limited to DIY or very uncommon and hardly affordable.

With the "Groundhog" iFi offers an effective and affordable solution for this problem.


----------



## Dobrescu George

iFi audio said:


> If a DAC/AMP and a DAP both run on a battery and there are no other connections, then there is no need for a earth connection.
> 
> The ground connection (ground & earth ARE different) between a DAP and a DAC/AMP is all that is needed.
> 
> ...



Nice! 

Thank you for the in-depth explanation! 

This helped me a lot with understanding grounding. Seems like all of Romania would really need your new product as we have 2 pin outlets everywhere. I understand are inherently not grounded. Cool stuff anyways, curious how this new product enhances sound. 

I also didn't exactly knew before the reason for some countries using 3-pin outlets.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Be sure to check out my review on iDSD BL! 

The short story is that I love its sound, but there are much more details in my official review! Uploading to Head-fi as well as soon as I manage to find out how to properly upload images to it. 

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.ro/2017/05/ifi-idsd-bl-pinnacle-of-dac-and-amp.html


----------



## FunctionalDoc (May 8, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> Be sure to check out my review on iDSD BL!
> 
> The short story is that I love its sound, but there are much more details in my official review! Uploading to Head-fi as well as soon as I manage to find out how to properly upload images to it.
> 
> https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.ro/2017/05/ifi-idsd-bl-pinnacle-of-dac-and-amp.html


Really a great review and I have gone black and haven't looked back.


----------



## Dobrescu George

FunctionalDoc said:


> Really a great review and I have gone black and haven't looked back.



I'm glad you like it!^^ 

I hope more and more people will try out this excellent DAC/AMP, I do agree that once you go with BL, you never look back!


----------



## flyte3333 (May 8, 2017)

Really fantastic review @Dobrescu George  ! I wish more reviews were this detailed and fun to read, from the opening of the box to the listening.

Loving my iDSD BL too. Btw I was thinking of the iDAC2 + iCAN SE combination because iFi themselves said this is a better Dac/Amp combination than the iDSD BL, *for a desktop/permanent solution *- obviously the iDAC2 + iCAN SE is not practical for a portable solution.

The comment is here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-november-2016/?do=findComment&comment=612934

And here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-november-2016/?do=findComment&comment=620295

The full explanation is here:  https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...-november-2016/?do=findComment&comment=614267

I just sold my Mojo. I would have gone to the iDac2 + iCAN SE but I use Roon to up-sample everything to DSD512 and the iDAC2 is limited to DSD256.

Is there a DSD512 iDAC3 or iDAC2 SE coming this year @iFi audio  ? 

In the mean time I'm really loving my iDSD BL with Roon's DSD512 up-sampling and Sennheiser HD800S cans.


----------



## flyte3333 (May 9, 2017)

iFi audio said:


> Always try to get the listening level past 12 and more to 3 o' clock using a combination of Power/iEMatch.
> 
> Like this chart.



Hi iFi, I've tried to search for this answer. I'm listening on Eco mode at about 12 o'clock (and don't need to go louder volume wise) with IEMatch is off. I was just wondering if the current available is restricted in some way in Eco, compared with Normal mode.

I know from the published specs that Eco's maximum power output is less than Normal mode.

But I'm not really max'ing out on the Volume knob on Eco - I don't really go past 1'oclock. I think this means I'm not missing out on dynamics (current available) by staying on Eco mode, but just wanted to know your thoughts.

To ask this another way, if I am able to listen to Normal mode at 12 o'clock and Eco mode at 3 o'clock (both with IEMatch off), then am I losing anything in terms of current delivery in Eco mode in this example?

Cheers


----------



## 329161

Hawaiibadboy said:


> Nice pairing.
> 
> Amazing actually...


Which headphones are these?


----------



## RAQemUP

Those headphones are DD Audio DXB-04.
http://ddaudio.com/products/lifestyle/lifestyle_gear/dxb-04-ear-wood-headphones/


----------



## Cagin

Greetings!

I've just ordered one two days ago after the Adorama deal came back in the Head-Fi deals section.

This is going to be my first dedicated dac/amp I'll own. It was kind of an impulse buy, I didn't plan on buying one. I normally read threads from page 1 to the end and through as many reviews as I can before I buy something completely new to me. I had pre-ordered the new Aeon from MrSpeakers, and last week-end I realized (half-panicked) I didn't have any audio equipment with 6.3mm output. 

 I knew the Micro iDSD was highly praised. I'm also glad there's an Iematch built-in, I'm curious how it will make my supra sensitive Empire Zeus R ciems. Hopeful it will hide hiss without harming the signature of the Zeus too much.

I've read some reviews of this lil fella, and it ticked so many of my boxes:

DAC & Headamp combo friendly on the budget
transportable in a backpack in a compact manner
useable with my PC (I listen music through it and/or while gaiming)
adaptable so I can plug my over the top sensitive Empire Zeus ciems for excellent SQ and suppressed hiss

I may have been too rash about the impulse buy though, as I usually get to pay about a third of the total end value in customs so the $399+$53 shipping might end up over 600euros for me. Especially silly of me after I found out today that iFi is an UK company. And that there was a Head-Fi worldwide tour for it that could've helped me consolidate my choice. Oh well. Now to read this thread from pg1 and the Black Label one in the Sponsor section >:-]]


----------



## FunctionalDoc (May 9, 2017)

Cagin said:


> Greetings!
> 
> I've just ordered one two days ago after the Adorama deal came back in the Head-Fi deals section.
> 
> ...



Great choice I got the Black label also from them for $399 minus the shipping or VAT and have the Aeon's on order and have never heard any Mrspeakers product till 2 weeks ago heard the Ether C and was impressed. You will love this great little desktop combo . Enjoy


----------



## phthora

Cagin said:


> ...I've just ordered one two days ago after the Adorama deal came back in the Head-Fi deals section... I had pre-ordered the new Aeon from MrSpeakers...



How weird... I made both of those purchases myself. Great minds, eh? I was a little concerned about a pre-order and buying a DAC/amp that I basically don't need, but the more I find out about both products, the more I am convinced I made the right call. Here's hoping it works out well for both of us.


----------



## phthora

Dang... We should start a Black Label Aeons club or something...


----------



## flyte3333

Lovin my new iDSD BL with up-sampling in Roon to DSD256 (soon DSD512 when my Linux i7 arrives).


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Lovin my new iDSD BL with up-sampling in Roon to DSD256 (soon DSD512 when my Linux i7 arrives).



BL and HD800S. Heavenly combo that's keeping me up all night these days. And happily so too.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

dcfac73 said:


> Which headphones are these?



 Digital Design DXB-04


I had a guy in PM and rec'd the iDSD BL which he bought. any cable rec's for using with an iPhone.....anyone?


----------



## flyte3333 (May 10, 2017)

Topspin70 said:


> BL and HD800S. Heavenly combo that's keeping me up all night these days. And happily so too.



Haha tell me about it mate ! What power and IEmatch settings are you using? And what Roon settings are you using? Volume leveling? Headroom Management?

I'm on Normal power mode, IEmatch off, Roon Auto Volume Leveling on, DSD up-sampling to DSD256 on. All other DSP off. 

I've got mine running 24/7 to accelerate any burning in period, if there is one with the iDSD BL. I'll only do that for a couple of weeks. It's been under 1 week now.

If the sound further improves, great. If not, I'm already extremely happy right now


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Haha tell me about it mate ! What power and IEmatch settings are you using? And what Roon settings are you using? Volume leveling? Headroom Management?
> 
> I'm on Normal power mode, IEmatch off, Roon Auto Volume Leveling on, DSD up-sampling to DSD256 on. All other DSP off.
> 
> ...



Awesome gear, isn't it? My BL settings are the same as yours except I got 3D on, bass off, and filter at Standard (contrary to ifi's recommendation). On Roon, auto volume levelling off so it's direct lossless signal all the way. Sounds better to my ears. But it does mean I can use up to only 11am position on the volume pot. Works fine for me, as there's no channel imbalance even at 9am position. I no longer listen to DSD so setting is default. I do notice the sound seems more open and fuller, especially the bass region, after a week of use. Let me know if that's what you notice too.


----------



## twiceboss

Topspin70 said:


> Awesome gear, isn't it? My BL settings are the same as yours except I got 3D on, bass off, and filter at Standard (contrary to ifi's recommendation). On Roon, auto volume levelling off so it's direct lossless signal all the way. Sounds better to my ears. But it does mean I can use up to only 11am position on the volume pot. Works fine for me, as there's no channel imbalance even at 9am position. I no longer listen to DSD so setting is default. I do notice the sound seems more open and fuller, especially the bass region, after a week of use. Let me know if that's what you notice too.


just placed an order from adorama. a used BL. $383. I hope it is good so i dont need to return it! 

Do you have any experience using HD800s with a mojo? i have hd800sdr with mojo right now and finding an upgrade for my dac/amp. Dont know whether this ifi can satisfy me or not. Any comments?


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> Awesome gear, isn't it? My BL settings are the same as yours except I got 3D on, bass off, and filter at Standard (contrary to ifi's recommendation). On Roon, auto volume levelling off so it's direct lossless signal all the way. Sounds better to my ears. But it does mean I can use up to only 11am position on the volume pot. Works fine for me, as there's no channel imbalance even at 9am position. I no longer listen to DSD so setting is default. I do notice the sound seems more open and fuller, especially the bass region, after a week of use. Let me know if that's what you notice too.



It really is great gear. As per my posts a little further up, I would have followed iFi's advice and gone the iDAC2 + iCAN SE because I only really use my iDSD at my desk. But I up-sample everything in Roon (all my PCM stuff included) to DSD256 (soon DSD512). The HQPlayer developer/owner guy did measurements with the iDSD up-sampling to different rates in both PCM and DSD formats and DSD512 came up tops. Of course measurements aren't everything, so I'll find out with my ears soon enough when my Linux i7 arrives.

Yeh I'd prefer not to use Roon's Auto Leveling for the same reason you mention - keeping the signal lossless. But it's done in the 64 bit domain, so it's about as high quality digital volume leveling as you can. Turning this on allows me to use iFi's recommend 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock range on the knob - as well as not have to touch the knob much. As they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch though.

Yep will let you know how things are sounding a week or two from now. At the moment I'm using the Uptone REGEN (connected to the PC) powered by an LPS-1. So the iDSD is getting a really good quality 5V (off the grid) from the LPS-1 via the REGEN.

I'll replace the Regen with the new ISO REGEN soon and that should be take things to another level.

I'm having to re-listen to everything again, so plenty of late nights like you too


----------



## dsrk (May 10, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> I'm glad you like it!^^
> 
> I hope more and more people will try out this excellent DAC/AMP, I do agree that once you go with BL, you never look back!





Dobrescu George said:


> I'm glad you like it!^^
> 
> I hope more and more people will try out this excellent DAC/AMP, I do agree that once you go with BL, you never look back!


Hi Dobrescu,

I read your review and it is fantastic. I am really surprised that you do not own the X5 3rd Gen, comparison to it would have been really great.

Anyhow, a very helpful review.

I am really stuck between this and Mojo. If anyone can compare it to X5 3rd Gen, it will help me decide.


----------



## dsrk

I really hate this new site, there is no Search in the thread. I have been trying to find the comparisons ifi and mojo.


----------



## Topspin70

twiceboss said:


> just placed an order from adorama. a used BL. $383. I hope it is good so i dont need to return it!
> 
> Do you have any experience using HD800s with a mojo? i have hd800sdr with mojo right now and finding an upgrade for my dac/amp. Dont know whether this ifi can satisfy me or not. Any comments?



I'm afraid I haven't tried the mojo. Didn't want to after trying the Hugo which I thought was too bright. But I hear good things about it. The recent post on DAR compares the BL and mojo using HD800S. Maybe you can get a better idea there. Here's the link:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/transportable-high-end-audio-ifis-micro-idsd-black-label/

I really doubt you're gonna return the BL. Even if the sound doesn't blow you away, the features will. It's a keeper for your current and future cans/iems.


----------



## Topspin70

dsrk said:


> I really hate this new site, there is no Search in the thread. I have been trying to find the comparisons ifi and mojo.



Ya, it's not easy to search past user feedback now. But DAR recent post which I just shared with @twiceboss compares the BL and mojo. Might be useful to you too:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/transportable-high-end-audio-ifis-micro-idsd-black-label/


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Yeh I'd prefer not to use Roon's Auto Leveling for the same reason you mention - keeping the signal lossless. But it's done in the 64 bit domain, so it's about as high quality digital volume leveling as you can. Turning this on allows me to use iFi's recommend 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock range on the knob - as well as not have to touch the knob much. As they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch though.
> 
> Yep will let you know how things are sounding a week or two from now. At the moment I'm using the Uptone REGEN (connected to the PC) powered by an LPS-1. So the iDSD is getting a really good quality 5V (off the grid) from the LPS-1 via the REGEN.
> 
> ...



Well, we clearly have no complains when it comes to a little sacrifice for our hobby. Haha. 

Regarding the volume pot, I struggled to stick to ifi's recommendation, both for the BL and my iCAN SE that pairs with my yggy. I have to set Roon headroom management by >-10dB in order to play between 12-3pm if I choose Normal power (mid gain for the amp). With so much headroom, I detect some loss in dynamics. Alternatively, I could set the devices to Eco (low gain on the amp) and less the headroom on Roon, but the HD800S sounds anaemic and lacks low end punch. Long story short, 10am volume pot position is the compromise I chose to live with. 

So your chain goes PC > Regen + LPS-1 > BL? Is there a big difference with and without? (I'm looking out for the ISO too, plus it comes with a interesting USB adapter which I've yet to understand)


----------



## Dobrescu George

dsrk said:


> Hi Dobrescu,
> 
> I read your review and it is fantastic. I am really surprised that you do not own the X5 3rd Gen, comparison to it would have been really great.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you like my review! 

My personal experience is that iDSD BL sounds real-life like while Mojo  can still have a digital tint to it. I don't know how to phrase it correctly, but iDSD BL sounded like there was no DAC/AMP but only music, while with Mojo the midrange was different, there was a difference in tonality that made iDSD BL better than Mojo, at least in my tests. 

Well, this, and Mojo really disliked me, id didn't connect with my phone, with a computer, with X5ii, iDSD BL is a much smoother experience, at least from what I've seen.


----------



## dsrk

Topspin70 said:


> Ya, it's not easy to search past user feedback now. But DAR recent post which I just shared with @twiceboss compares the BL and mojo. Might be useful to you too:
> 
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/transportable-high-end-audio-ifis-micro-idsd-black-label/



Thanks for the link, it is a very good comparison and it really helps.


----------



## dsrk

Dobrescu George said:


> I'm glad you like my review!
> 
> My personal experience is that iDSD BL sounds real-life like while Mojo  can still have a digital tint to it. I don't know how to phrase it correctly, but iDSD BL sounded like there was no DAC/AMP but only music, while with Mojo the midrange was different, there was a difference in tonality that made iDSD BL better than Mojo, at least in my tests.
> 
> Well, this, and Mojo really disliked me, id didn't connect with my phone, with a computer, with X5ii, iDSD BL is a much smoother experience, at least from what I've seen.


How does it compare to X5 3's sound. Everyone told that X5 3 sounds similar to Mojo if not better.


----------



## Dobrescu George

dsrk said:


> How does it compare to X5 3's sound. Everyone told that X5 3 sounds similar to Mojo if not better.



There is a 3 week difference between testing X5-3 and testing iDSD BL... Really hard to say with absolute certainty. The sound is great on both, X5-3 is far smoother, where iDSD BL sounds more neutral / balanced. If I were to say, if you like natural treble / natural sound, iDSD BL is more natural while X5-3 is a leaner / relaxed experience whilst keeping an amazing amount of detail and a great soundstage. You can quote AK themselves when they name the tech in their DACs Velvet sound, while iFi team tries (and manages to) make music sound real life - like

Both X5-3 and iDSD BL have been better devices than Mojo to my ears, and I generally wanted to like Mojo... iDSD BL and X5-3 both bested Mojo in my experience either way.


----------



## dsrk

Dobrescu George said:


> There is a 3 week difference between testing X5-3 and testing iDSD BL... Really hard to say with absolute certainty. The sound is great on both, X5-3 is far smoother, where iDSD BL sounds more neutral / balanced. If I were to say, if you like natural treble / natural sound, iDSD BL is more natural while X5-3 is a leaner / relaxed experience whilst keeping an amazing amount of detail and a great soundstage. You can quote AK themselves when they name the tech in their DACs Velvet sound, while iFi team tries (and manages to) make music sound real life - like
> 
> Both X5-3 and iDSD BL have been better devices than Mojo to my ears, and I generally wanted to like Mojo... iDSD BL and X5-3 both bested Mojo in my experience either way.



For me the soundstage on X5 3 feels narrow and I thought ifi has great soundstage when compared to X5 3, is that right?


----------



## twiceboss

Topspin70 said:


> I'm afraid I haven't tried the mojo. Didn't want to after trying the Hugo which I thought was too bright. But I hear good things about it. The recent post on DAR compares the BL and mojo using HD800S. Maybe you can get a better idea there. Here's the link:
> 
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/transportable-high-end-audio-ifis-micro-idsd-black-label/
> 
> I really doubt you're gonna return the BL. Even if the sound doesn't blow you away, the features will. It's a keeper for your current and future cans/iems.


Kindly tell me what's your setting for your ifi BL to drive hd800?


----------



## iFi audio

Em2016 said:


> I'm listening on Eco mode at about 12 o'clock (and don't need to go louder volume wise) with IEMatch is off. I was just wondering if the current available is restricted in some way in Eco, compared with Normal mode.



The short answer is no, you do not loose current delivery. 

For a longer answer, the main current restriction is the actual amplifier, which allows 700mA peak current. This applies in all modes, from Eco to Turbo.

A second restriction is a power supply and the waste heat generated by the amplifier. The former's load is around 12,000mW. At this point the power supply and the amplifier are close to protective shutdown due to overload. 

The power mode sets both headphone amplifier gain and nominal headphone amplifier voltage (from +/-5V to +/-16V). If the same maximum power is applied to higher voltage (e.g. normal or turbo mode), the maximum current drops as the product of voltage and current is constant.

The power supply has some further "smart" parts up it's sleeve. If there is more current demanded by headphones used, its voltage will be lowered automatically to increase current.

The upshot is that in eco mode, an  amplifier is the limiting factor for current delivery, whereas a power supply is the limiting factor in normal and turbo modes. 

However, within the power "envelope" of the power supply and the current limit of an amplifier, a system will always reconfigure itself dynamically to deliver the maximum current and/or power possible and/or demanded under a given set of conditions (volume settings, signal, headphone current demand).

This is at least part of the "secret" that allows a relatively small portable device to take on (and in many cases to win against) full size stationary headphone amplifiers with difficult to drive headphones.


----------



## Dobrescu George

dsrk said:


> For me the soundstage on X5 3 feels narrow and I thought ifi has great soundstage when compared to X5 3, is that right?



I actually didn't feel like X5-3 had a small soundstage, probably the biggest soundstage I've heard for a smooth DAP, but since I've never heard them side-by-side, I can only confirm now that iDSD BL has a great soundstage in both size, coherency, separation and depth. 

iDSD BL is not overly smooth, but it sounds organic and natural, real-life like. X5-3 is smooth by its nature, so the soundstage will be affected by those characteristics. I do prefer signatures that are not overly smooth, but I would use X5-3 as a transport for iDSD BL (if I hadn't had an X5ii already), so they would pair well in a system for me, each with its function.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Listening to this sound, iDSD BL + Meze 99 Classics, awesome combination!! The voices are so sweet and so are the guitars! Soundstage and whole thing just feels so real!


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> Well, we clearly have no complains when it comes to a little sacrifice for our hobby. Haha.
> 
> Regarding the volume pot, I struggled to stick to ifi's recommendation, both for the BL and my iCAN SE that pairs with my yggy. I have to set Roon headroom management by >-10dB in order to play between 12-3pm if I choose Normal power (mid gain for the amp). With so much headroom, I detect some loss in dynamics. Alternatively, I could set the devices to Eco (low gain on the amp) and less the headroom on Roon, but the HD800S sounds anaemic and lacks low end punch. Long story short, 10am volume pot position is the compromise I chose to live with.
> 
> So your chain goes PC > Regen + LPS-1 > BL? Is there a big difference with and without? (I'm looking out for the ISO too, plus it comes with a interesting USB adapter which I've yet to understand)



Yeh I noted the exact same things as you - Auto Volume Leveling does drop the volume around -10dB for me on average, so similar experience to what you found with Headroom Management (both occur at the same point in Roon and work the same way, except one is a fixed drop and the other varies). I find a tad less dynamics this way too but I wonder if it's less distortion actually? Or expectation bias creeping into my own mind.

I also found Eco sounds a little weaker with Volume Leveling Off in Roon, but I again wonder if it's just expectation bias creeping into my own mind.

The differences are slight by the way, for anyone reading this - all the combinations still sounds fantastic overall. It just comes down to the slightest preferences with all the tweaks you can do with the iDSD and on the PC software end.

I'll do more listening and eventually settle on the best compromise lol

Yep that's my chain: PC > Regen + LPS-1 > BL

Big difference with and without the Regen you mean? Yes indeed. There was even a big difference between the PC > Regen USB cable. One was the John Swenson approved 90-ohm Supra cable and the other the Curious USB Pure Silver Cable - I prefer the Curious. That's hard to say because I usually always do what John Swenson tells me lol. I'll retest the Supra cable once all components in this system have well and truely broken in. Maybe in a month or so. I'd love to sell the Curious USB cable and use the Swenson approved cheaper Supra cable but at first listen the Curious cable has to stay but I'll retest in a month or so.

The USPCB adapter that comes with the ISO REGEN won't work with our iDSD unfortunately unless you use another adapter - it's just a USB type A to type B adapter except instead of wires bunched up inside (like most adapters and cables) it's a little circuit board inside, with proper impedance matching. It would be perfect with the iDAC2's USB input. I'm waiting for the iDAC2 SE or iDAC3 with DSD512 support and then I'll upgrade. But very happy for now


----------



## flyte3333

Dobrescu George said:


> I'm glad you like my review!
> 
> My personal experience is that iDSD BL sounds real-life like while Mojo  can still have a digital tint to it. I don't know how to phrase it correctly, but iDSD BL sounded like there was no DAC/AMP but only music, while with Mojo the midrange was different, there was a difference in tonality that made iDSD BL better than Mojo, at least in my tests.
> 
> Well, this, and Mojo really disliked me, id didn't connect with my phone, with a computer, with X5ii, iDSD BL is a much smoother experience, at least from what I've seen.



Thanks George ! Yes no matter how a Dac sounds, if it doesn't connect reliably then that's a major problem ! I have to admit my iDSD is smoother experience on Windows than Mojo too, also in terms of playing nicely with Roon for me.

Enjoy the music


----------



## flyte3333

iFi audio said:


> The short answer is no, you do not loose current delivery.
> .



Thanks gents. 

Ok you've convinced me to at least try Eco mode a little more (with Roon's 64 bit floating point Volume Leveling OFF). This will let me go closer to 3 o'clock on the volume knob.

May I ask why is 3 o'clock on the iDSD's volume knob better than 10 o'lock?

Cheers !


----------



## Dobrescu George

Em2016 said:


> Thanks gents.
> 
> Ok you've convinced me to at least try Eco mode a little more (with Roon's 64 bit floating point Volume Leveling OFF). This will let me go closer to 3 o'clock on the volume knob.
> 
> ...



There might be a bit of unbalance at 10 o'clock 

@iFi audio  said a few posts ago in a thread that it is optimal to run iDSD after 12 o'clock, if it is too loud before, you can change to Eco or engage iEMatch.


----------



## Topspin70

twiceboss said:


> Kindly tell me what's your setting for your ifi BL to drive hd800?



It's Normal power, bass off, 3D on, standard filter, iem match off. @Em2016 and I were discussing settings too, both of us using HD800S. You can see some of the thoughts being shared above. ifi audio also commented.


----------



## flyte3333

Dobrescu George said:


> There might be a bit of unbalance at 10 o'clock
> 
> @iFi audio  said a few posts ago in a thread that it is optimal to run iDSD after 12 o'clock, if it is too loud before, you can change to Eco or engage iEMatch.



Understood, but they've recommended 3 o'clock a few times but I haven't been able to find the explanation of why. It may be due to unbalance but wanted clarification from them, if possible


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> The recent post on DAR compares the BL and mojo using HD800S.
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/transportable-high-end-audio-ifis-micro-idsd-black-label/
> 
> .



Thanks for this! I didn't realise part 2 just came out recently. Lots of HD800S references too.

Interesting reading his comparisons with the Mojo. I have to agree with most of his comparisons. But you really can't lose with either. They both punch way above their weight when you consider what they can do for their price.

It's scary to think how much better this will get for this price point and this size of product. I guess we'll find out over the next few years


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Understood, but they've recommended 3 o'clock a few times but I haven't been able to find the explanation of why. It may be due to unbalance but wanted clarification from them, if possible



There's this explanation from ifi that explains how their volume pot works. Although it pertains to the nano, I would think it's the same concept used on all their volume operated devices.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Topspin70 said:


> There's this explanation from ifi that explains how their volume pot works. Although it pertains to the nano, I would think it's the same concept used on all their volume operated devices.



Thank you very much! Was looking for this!


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Yeh I noted the exact same things as you - Auto Volume Leveling does drop the volume around -10dB for me on average, so similar experience to what you found with Headroom Management (both occur at the same point in Roon and work the same way, except one is a fixed drop and the other varies). I find a tad less dynamics this way too but I wonder if it's less distortion actually? Or expectation bias creeping into my own mind.
> 
> I also found Eco sounds a little weaker with Volume Leveling Off in Roon, but I again wonder if it's just expectation bias creeping into my own mind.
> 
> ...



Ya have another listen and see if you feel differently. 

Mine is definitely not mental bias, especially with regards to using Eco to drive the HD800S. I read ifi's explanation but I think that would apply to most headphones but not all. At 300ohms our cans need serious muscle to make them sing, and as such, quite picky when it comes to amp pairing. The BL does great but only at Normal power (to my ears and some others here too), unfortunately at the expense of not utilising much of the volume pot. Even if I turn on IEMatch to bring down the gain to use more of the volume, the soundstage seems closed in and things a little muddled. So between awesome sound and volume pot position, I settled on the former.

Again this is my experience via my ears and pertains only to the hard-to-drive HD800S. My Viso HP50 sounds brilliant at Eco mode and so do my Duozas.


----------



## Topspin70

Em2016 said:


> Yep that's my chain: PC > Regen + LPS-1 > BL
> 
> Big difference with and without the Regen you mean? Yes indeed. There was even a big difference between the PC > Regen USB cable. One was the John Swenson approved 90-ohm Supra cable and the other the Curious USB Pure Silver Cable - I prefer the Curious. That's hard to say because I usually always do what John Swenson tells me lol. I'll retest the Supra cable once all components in this system have well and truely broken in. Maybe in a month or so. I'd love to sell the Curious USB cable and use the Swenson approved cheaper Supra cable but at first listen the Curious cable has to stay but I'll retest in a month or so.
> 
> The USPCB adapter that comes with the ISO REGEN won't work with our iDSD unfortunately unless you use another adapter - it's just a USB type A to type B adapter except instead of wires bunched up inside (like most adapters and cables) it's a little circuit board inside, with proper impedance matching. It would be perfect with the iDAC2's USB input. I'm waiting for the iDAC2 SE or iDAC3 with DSD512 support and then I'll upgrade. But very happy for now



Thanks for explaining. I might end up getting the ISO for my microRendu instead then. Ya I heard a lot about the Curious cable, and John's expertise, as always, is worth our consideration. At the rate those guys and ifi are innovating, my wallet just can't keep up. As you say, be happy for now until when something comes along to make things even better.


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> There's this explanation from ifi that explains how their volume pot works. Although it pertains to the nano, I would think it's the same concept used on all their volume operated devices.



Thanks for this - so as George said, it's mainly an imbalance issue. The very minor issue I have with IEMatch is the mentions that it affects the Class A power output.

Another case of, there's no such thing as a free lunch lol


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> Ya have another listen and see if you feel differently.
> 
> Mine is definitely not mental bias, especially with regards to using Eco to drive the HD800S. I read ifi's explanation but I think that would apply to most headphones but not all. At 300ohms our cans need serious muscle to make them sing, and as such, quite picky when it comes to amp pairing. The BL does great but only at Normal power (to my ears and some others here too), unfortunately at the expense of not utilising much of the volume pot. Even if I turn on IEMatch to bring down the gain to use more of the volume, the soundstage seems closed in and things a little muddled. So between awesome sound and volume pot position, I settled on the former.
> 
> Again this is my experience via my ears and pertains only to the hard-to-drive HD800S. My Viso HP50 sounds brilliant at Eco mode and so do my Duozas.



Thanks for sharing. Always interesting hearing others experiences, especially when you read about someone with almost the exact same setup ! 

I think the ISO will be a nice addition to your microRendu - I read Alex's comments that the USB signal integrity of the ISO is the best John's measured (so better than his mRendu and my original REGEN).

I'm still looking for a quality hard adapter to go between my Regen and iDSD - that's the last weak link because I'm using a cheap adapter at the moment.

John mentioned to me he may (or may not) release designs for custom circuit board adapters and we get the boards made up by a 3rd party and we do the final soldering of connectors ourselves. I'm guessing he's had a few people ask for different connectors to the Type A to Type B USPCB - I'm guessing a lot of Mojo and Hugo and DAP uses looking for a microUSB version of the USPCB.


----------



## dsrk

Dobrescu George said:


> I actually didn't feel like X5-3 had a small soundstage, probably the biggest soundstage I've heard for a smooth DAP, but since I've never heard them side-by-side, I can only confirm now that iDSD BL has a great soundstage in both size, coherency, separation and depth.
> 
> iDSD BL is not overly smooth, but it sounds organic and natural, real-life like. X5-3 is smooth by its nature, so the soundstage will be affected by those characteristics. I do prefer signatures that are not overly smooth, but I would use X5-3 as a transport for iDSD BL (if I hadn't had an X5ii already), so they would pair well in a system for me, each with its function.



Thanks, that's what my idea is. Use my X;5 3 as a transport for iDSD (also an amp for X5 3 which ever sounds better) because of huge memory it supports.

Thanks again for all the inputs.


----------



## Dobrescu George

dsrk said:


> Thanks, that's what my idea is. Use my X;5 3 as a transport for iDSD (also an amp for X5 3 which ever sounds better) because of huge memory it supports.
> 
> Thanks again for all the inputs.



No worries! 

I hope you find lots of fun and happiness in music!


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I have the Black label and a Goggle Pixel Xl with as USB-C connector and was wondering if anyone has used and found a source for a OTG cable that will work with the phone and the Black label. I am using USB Audio Player pro and would like to play music from my phone out to the Black label  for the DAC and amp aspect. 

Thoughts and resources and experience with this phone and DAC/Amp? I love my  Black.You go Black and there is not turning back.

Thanks


----------



## rickyleelee

i would get the X5 gen3 as transport for either the Black Label or the Mojo. try both and decide for yourself. i only look for adivice to go in which directoin and then make my own mind up. you should like both and the sonic qualities/flexibilites to suit you. these two are the two best of the makret i would say. other brands just are too far behind in sound quality it is like going from supermarket beer to micro brew.


----------



## Dobrescu George

FunctionalDoc said:


> I have the Black label and a Goggle Pixel Xl with as USB-C connector and was wondering if anyone has used and found a source for a OTG cable that will work with the phone and the Black label. I am using USB Audio Player pro and would like to play music from my phone out to the Black label  for the DAC and amp aspect.
> 
> Thoughts and resources and experience with this phone and DAC/Amp? I love my  Black.You go Black and there is not turning back.
> 
> Thanks



I have an extremely generic OTG cable to connect Mi Max to iDSD BL, it works natively. 

I never touched Google's new phone (no one I know has it), but Mi Max works exeptionally well with iDSD BL. 



rickyleelee said:


> i would get the X5 gen3 as transport for either the Black Label or the Mojo. try both and decide for yourself. i only look for adivice to go in which directoin and then make my own mind up. you should like both and the sonic qualities/flexibilites to suit you. these two are the two best of the makret i would say. other brands just are too far behind in sound quality it is like going from supermarket beer to micro brew.



Excellent advice! I would also use a FiiO X5-3, especially with the new ultra large storage space (2xmSD)! I still own FiiO X5ii and love it to bits, it works as a DAC, AMP, transport, pretty much everything I need it to do!


----------



## Roen

FunctionalDoc said:


> I have the Black label and a Goggle Pixel Xl with as USB-C connector and was wondering if anyone has used and found a source for a OTG cable that will work with the phone and the Black label. I am using USB Audio Player pro and would like to play music from my phone out to the Black label  for the DAC and amp aspect.
> 
> Thoughts and resources and experience with this phone and DAC/Amp? I love my  Black.You go Black and there is not turning back.
> 
> Thanks


FYI USB-C doesn't use the OTG nomenclature anymore. They're now called "Legacy Device Adaptors"

Your Pixel should come with a Legacy Device Adaptor in the box. I'm currently using mine to listen to UAPP through my DAC.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Roen said:


> FYI USB-C doesn't use the OTG nomenclature anymore. They're now called "Legacy Device Adaptors"
> 
> Your Pixel should come with a Legacy Device Adaptor in the box. I'm currently using mine to listen to UAPP through my DAC.



This is interesting! 

I had no idea they dropped the OTG part with the new Pixel phone.


----------



## Roen

Dobrescu George said:


> This is interesting!
> 
> I had no idea they dropped the OTG part with the new Pixel phone.



Not just the Pixel or Google, this comes from the maintainers of the USB standard. So this affects everything with USB-C.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Roen said:


> Not just the Pixel or Google, this comes from the maintainers of the USB standard. So this affects everything with USB-C.



Thank you! 

Good to know and good to keep in mind then!


----------



## Roen

Dobrescu George said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Good to know and good to keep in mind then!



Do you have results / comments about the iDSD with the Pixel?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Roen said:


> Do you have results / comments about the iDSD with the Pixel?



I don't own the pixel... I own a Mi Max phone, much cheaper and larger. I have large hands, need at least 6.2" to write and even so I miss a lot of words... 

With Mi Max, it works natively. You just plug the OTG and it works. I have watched countless hours of videos using Mi Max and iDSD BL to be honest and it works amazingly well! 

As for other phones, I honestly haven't tried. But knowing Pixel, and google phones, it should work well. For portable usage, I stack iDSD BL with FiiO X5ii rather than my phone because I write a lot from the phone and I want my music to be uninterrupted. Music is smooth and works flawlessly with Mi Max when watching videos, I can't say more. I have used VLC for this.


----------



## canali (May 12, 2017)

howdy said:


> Has anyone compared the Hugo2 vs. BL iDSD in a blind test volume matched?


looking forward to this and similar comparisons when the hugo 2 comes out......hope we can have a DAC _smackdown_..yiggy, benchmark, ifi, hugo 2 etc.

i currently have the original micro idsd silver as my TT DAC  driving my focal alpha 50 nearfield desktop monitors....also using using microrendu, lps ultracaps power supply, ipurifier 2, mercury cable, roon labs and tidal.

am considering the new black upgrade, but still trying to determine if the upgrade is worth it...or just holding off for some pro idsd, or hugo 2 or other.
i'm  trying to read more comments from those who've listened to both..haven't been on this thread for some time so am just going backwards a bit.

feel free to share for those who have, please.


----------



## Dobrescu George

canali said:


> looking forward to this when the hugo 2 comes out......hope we can have a DAC _smackdown_..yiggy, benchmark, ifi, hugo 2 etc.
> 
> i currently have the original micro idsd silver driving my focal alpha 50 nearfield desktop monitors.
> .using microrendu, lps, ipurifier 2, mercury cable, roon labs and tidal....
> am considering the new black upgrade, but still trying to determine if the upgrade is worth it....trying to read more comments from those who've listened to both.



I've heard both and can only say that both sounded good, but BL seems to have the upper hand. I heard both at a large time difference so maybe I can't fully help you out with a proper comparison. 

Hugo 2 doesn't seem to be coming to Romania, but I would love to be able to put them both through some tests if I could. All I know is that iDSD BL is above mojo for me, so Hugo2 might be more fit to be a proper competition to BL. I do like BL this much, especially after hearing its synergy with ie800, quite am amazing feat for a DAC/AMP to make ie800 sound like a mini Sennheiser He-1


----------



## Topspin70

At the suggestion of @Em2016 I upsampled PCM to DSD256 via my player (Roon) and the already amazing BL went up to yet another level of sonic goodness. With its name being iDSD, it's almost odd that I didn't thought of trying this earlier. Anyone who hasn't should definitely give it a spin and see what you think.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Topspin70 said:


> At the suggestion of @Em2016 I upsampled PCM to DSD256 via my player (Roon) and the already amazing BL went up to yet another level of sonic goodness. With its name being iDSD, it's almost odd that I didn't thought of trying this earlier. Anyone who hasn't should definitely give it a spin and see what you think.



Never heard of that player, gotta try it and see if it changes things.


----------



## canali (May 12, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> Never heard of that player, gotta try it and see if it changes things.



roon labs rocks...many great updates with 1.3 for both cans/speakers etc.
you can try for 15 days...lifetime membership is US$470 or something


----------



## Dobrescu George

canali said:


> roon labs rocks...many great updates with 1.3 for both cans/speakers etc.
> you can try for 15 days...lifetime membership is us$470 or something



Gotta make the most I can out of those 14 days! And by this I mean tests over tests, at that price, I am really curious about it and its sound! 

Thank you for recommend it to us, I was curious to hear my music in DSD something something before. I never had a DSD file before (ever) because almost none of the music I listen to hasn't been uploaded to DSD.

Let's hope that the audio drivers and settings don't need much tweaking for it to work.


----------



## Topspin70

Dobrescu George said:


> Gotta make the most I can out of those 14 days! And by this I mean tests over tests, at that price, I am really curious about it and its sound!
> 
> Thank you for recommend it to us, I was curious to hear my music in DSD something something before. I never had a DSD file before (ever) because almost none of the music I listen to hasn't been uploaded to DSD.
> 
> Let's hope that the audio drivers and settings don't need much tweaking for it to work.



As I had learnt just a few days ago, you don't need DSD files to enjoy DSD. Just up-sampled it using a player like Roon. The trend started with HQPlayer where fans swear by it. 

I agree with @canali, Roon rocks! It's life changing even. Like the iDSD, it's feature packed and lets you decide how you like your music. Lots of reviews on DAR. Here's a link showing the latest update when some very powerful DSP was introduced but you might have to back-date to the early reviews to get a more complete picture: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/

Not much effort to set it up on my mac, but can't say for PC. You would need a pretty powerful computer but I think given your line of work your computers are definitely up to it. Plus there's a massive community on Roon Labs that will probably give you every answer to every question asked. https://community.roonlabs.com


----------



## canali (May 12, 2017)

Topspin70 said:


> As I had learnt just a few days ago, you don't need DSD files to enjoy DSD. Just up-sampled it using a player like Roon. The trend started with HQPlayer where fans swear by it.
> 
> I agree with @canali, Roon rocks! It's life changing even. Like the iDSD, it's feature packed and lets you decide how you like your music. Lots of reviews on DAR. Here's a link showing the latest update when some very powerful DSP was introduced but you might have to back-date to the early reviews to get a more complete picture: *http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/*
> 
> Not much effort to set it up on my mac, but can't say for PC. You would need a pretty powerful computer but I think given your line of work your computers are definitely up to it. Plus there's a massive community on Roon Labs that will probably give you every answer to every question asked. https://community.roonlabs.com



and the thing with DSD: how many albums/songs/files are out there vs what is on 44.1?
no comparison.
also i find Roon much easier to understand this time around vs last.
with some cool additions, too: EQ, crossfeed/filters for cans/speakers...room/cans calibration etc.
various upsampling filters etc...it has alot of features that i'm still learning about.

*Coming over the hill: the monstrous Roon 1.3*
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/


----------



## Topspin70

I want to also add that upsampling, with some headroom adjustment, allowed me to finally use the volume pot at >12 o'clock position and prefer the bit-perfect filter over others—both which are recommended by ifi. Finally I'm enjoying the iDSD the same way as its makers!


----------



## flyte3333

I've been reading and learning about up-sampling to DSD for a while but only decided to try it after getting my iDSD BL - I can't go back. Now I'm waiting for my i7 computer to arrive to go the full monty - up-sampling to DSD512 requires pow-ah unfortunately. I have heard DSD256 vs DSD512 with my iDSD on a friends computer that could handle it and to my ears it's worth going to the iDSD's maximum supported DSD rate. 

This little DAC is some serious value for money.

After reading iFi's comments that the iDac2 + iCan SE betters even the iDSD BL (see my posts earlier with links) I'm waiting for the iDac3 or iDac2 SE for DSD512 support but I'm VERY happy at the moment


----------



## flyte3333

Btw for those using Roon and concerned about digital volume control with their iDSD see this:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roons-64-bit-floating-point-volume-leveling/25547/4?u=sean2016

For PCM it's most likely a non issue with the iDSD (32 bit PCM DAC) for 16 bit and 24 bit music unless you're applying -48dB (8 bits) volume leveling (that's some serious volume leveling). Or if you have 32 bit music, that may be an issue.

For DSD it's a non issue - no bits are lost with Roon's volume leveling and up-sampling to DSD.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Man, that Roon thing seems like the latest best thing in audio software, I didn't even know it existed until recently! Thank you for keeping me up to date with this, now I'm even more curious!


----------



## CarlosUnchained (May 13, 2017)

I shouldn't share this to have more chances, but I'm not going to win anyway. Good luck!

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/dar-prize-giveaway-9-a-lifetime-roon-membership/


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## canali (May 13, 2017)

here's an example of the Roon labs DSP with EQ in various iterations that you can use
convolution, parametric etc....i'm still getting familiar with them all and am unsure if it's
optimally setup (the roon community and tech support is quite helpful here, too)

I'm fiddling around with my powered desktop speakers (focal alpha 50)
*ifi micro* settings:
preamp
eco power mode 
polarity  plus
bitperfect

only at 10:00 and it's plenty loud at my desktop ...75-80db

no way i can get to 3pm without hearing loss and/or neighbours tarring and feathering me.
i


----------



## flyte3333

canali said:


> here's an example of the Roon labs DSP with EQ in various iterations that you can use
> convolution, parametric etc....i'm still getting familiar with them all and am unsure if it's
> optimally setup (the roon community and tech support is quite helpful here, too)
> 
> ...



Hey buddy! Go yo Zone Settings and turn Volume Leveling on AUTO. Send us a screenshot of your complete signal chain after that.


----------



## canali (May 13, 2017)




----------



## canali (May 13, 2017)




----------



## flyte3333 (May 13, 2017)

Thanks buddy.

Any reason why you have set the maximum sample rate to 384kHz and bits to 24 bits? Best to leave both on "max", especially since the iDSD is a 32 bit DAC. That will allow 32 bit output from Roon to your iDSD. Then (unless you have 32 bit music - quite rare but I think it does exist) I think you can safely change Headroom Adjustment to -10dB without losing bits.

Then does that allow you to go past 12 o'clock on the volume knob?


----------



## Topspin70

canali said:


> i



Wow. That's one serious V shape curve. What kind of music do you set this for? Must be producing quite a holographic effect.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Topspin70 said:


> Wow. That's one serious V shape curve. What kind of music do you set this for? Must be producing quite a holographic effect.



My curves sometime do 5 times more of a difference, especially for enhancing the treble. Totally flat on ie800 though.


----------



## Topspin70

Dobrescu George said:


> My curves sometime do 5 times more of a difference, especially for enhancing the treble. Totally flat on ie800 though.



That's massive. I'm taking baby steps with EQ, preferring to compensate areas of weakness in my set up where needed, but not so drastic that it might alter the signature of my components. But I would agree some cans need more compensation than others.


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## canali (May 13, 2017)

Topspin70 said:


> Wow. That's one serious V shape curve. What kind of music do you set this for? Must be producing quite a holographic effect.



hey guys, lmao on your EQ comments..i thought i was going EQ 'lite'.
just toying with things.didn't realize they were massive increments.


tweaking things a bit


 

trying to read up more on how to incorporate EQ and found this series of articles interesting.
http://www.ccisolutions.com/StoreFront/category/mix-like-a-pro-3-understanding-eq


----------



## Topspin70

canali said:


> hey guys, lmao on your EQ comments..i thought i was going EQ 'lite'.
> just toying with things.didn't realize they were massive increments.
> 
> 
> ...



That's just my view given that the iDSD sounds amazing with a flat line. I had to EQ quite dramatically for my Dragonfly Black. 

I did push the low end after upsampling to DSD256 for the BL, to maintain a little meat on the otherwise beautiful airy soundstage.


----------



## canali

Good EQ for beginners
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/eq-explainer/


----------



## flyte3333

Em2016 said:


> Thanks buddy.
> 
> Any reason why you have set the maximum sample rate to 384kHz and bits to 24 bits? Best to leave both on "max", especially since the iDSD is a 32 bit DAC. That will allow 32 bit output from Roon to your iDSD. Then (unless you have 32 bit music - quite rare but I think it does exist) I think you can safely change Headroom Adjustment to -10dB without losing bits.
> 
> Then does that allow you to go past 12 o'clock on the volume knob?



Hey buddy @canali , did this help at all?


----------



## flyte3333

Just when all the microRendu owners were getting settled: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31811-sonore-ultrarendu/

Lol innovation is amazing but this is too quick for my wallet to keep up with lol


----------



## MattTCG

I have had the idsd BL for about a two weeks...amazing device, truly. While it worked perfectly for the first week or so, the past few days have been problematic. I can't seem to keep the battery charged. I followed the directive to charge the device overnight and made sure that the blue light was extinguished when I took it off the charger to plug it into my system. I have a Gemini cable plugged into separate usb 3.0 ports. But for the past several days eventually the idsd BL will turn itself off. Checking the led I can see that it is red when I try to turn it on, so I have to put it back on the charger for several hours (not very convenient or conducive for listening to music). 

Am I doing something wrong? I read the article "Feed the meaty monster." Should I be turning off the idsd when not listening to it? Any suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## canali (May 14, 2017)

Em2016 said:


> Just when all the microRendu owners were getting settled: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31811-sonore-ultrarendu/
> 
> Lol innovation is amazing but this is too quick for my wallet to keep up with lol


Haven't tried your suggestions yet ... and i agree on your op about the new ultrarendu replacing the microrendu...just too fast a turnover for a product just out a yr...leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31811-sonore-ultrarendu/


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## flyte3333 (May 14, 2017)

canali said:


> Haven't tried your suggestions yet ... and i agree on your op about the new ultrarendu replacing the microrendu...just too fast...leaves a bad taste in my mouth.



All these forums have really taught me so much and I am very very grateful. But once I get my ISO REGEN I keep thinking if I should to de-activate all my forum accounts lol

Only because the very impressive pace of innovation really is too quick for my wallet. So maybe if I don't know any better (i.e. don't get any product updates on the forums) I'll probably enjoy what I have a lot more.

I doubt I'll do it because I genuinely enjoy the learning and helping where I can, but sometimes I get that feeling that it's a great time to stop and enjoy the ground sound I already have for a few years at least.

Does anyone else get that feeling sometimes?

Having said that, I recently sold my Chord Mojo and switched to the iDSD BL and very very happy I did.


----------



## flyte3333

Well I'm late to the party but I'm finally maxing out with my iDSD - up-sampling to DSD512

And the sound? Wow. It's just too smooth for my ears....


----------



## technobear

MattTCG said:


> I have had the idsd BL for about a two weeks...amazing device, truly. While it worked perfectly for the first week or so, the past few days have been problematic. I can't seem to keep the battery charged. I followed the directive to charge the device overnight and made sure that the blue light was extinguished when I took it off the charger to plug it into my system. I have a Gemini cable plugged into separate usb 3.0 ports. But for the past several days eventually the idsd BL will turn itself off. Checking the led I can see that it is red when I try to turn it on, so I have to put it back on the charger for several hours (not very convenient or conducive for listening to music).
> 
> Am I doing something wrong? I read the article "Feed the meaty monster." Should I be turning off the idsd when not listening to it? Any suggestions are appreciated.



Sounds like you are running in battery mode. It won't run forever!

If you are connected to a computer, you could try using USB power instead.

Battery mode: turn on iDSD, then connect to PC

USB mode: connect to PC (running), then turn on iDSD


----------



## bluenight

Would  idsd bl be a smooth sounding dac for my tv? I Dont want harsher sss sounds on lesser audio quality like netflix and youtube streaming can have that i heard using chord hugo, maybe it is to bright. I asked the same question in the ifi ione thread maybe that one is a more suitable dac for tvs.

I always listen in headphones (hd 650) with x-can v3 headphone amp when whatching tv.


----------



## MattTCG

technobear said:


> Sounds like you are running in battery mode. It won't run forever!
> 
> If you are connected to a computer, you could try using USB power instead.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the suggestion. I'm testing your theory to see if you are in fact correct.


----------



## 397324

Hi All

I was using my iDSD Black with Audioquest NightOwl headphones but found them a bit dull. This surprised me as I'm a bit treble sensitive.

If I were to make a shortlist of slightly warm headphones with good accurate bass for say under £1000, where should I start? I live in Jersey, Channel Islands. For those that don't know, is a small group of islands between the UK and France. Jersey is 9 by 5 miles and has no Hi-Fi dealers, so I have to purchase based on the recommendations of others.

Thanks in advance.

Darren


----------



## Dobrescu George

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi All
> 
> I was using my iDSD Black with Audioquest NightOwl headphones but found them a bit dull. This surprised me as I'm a bit treble sensitive.
> 
> ...



LCD headphones (?) 

Open or closed back? HD650 and H600 are awesome options as well!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Today I couldn't bring iDSD BL with me when I went out. 

I'll just say this. When I got home, I spent about three hours listening to it and enjoying music, totally felt the need to! It really helped me relax, the last few days have been so stressful that I could barely walk today. A little iDSD BL + Meze 99 Classics fixed me right up! ♡

One thing that I do have to note, is that iDSD will make anything sound awesome! I just received FiiO F5, an awesome set of inexpensive IEMs that sound really nice with iDSD BL! I'm digging those IEMs far more than I thought I would and listening to them through iDSD BL totally shows what inteesting improvements iDSD BL brings to the table!


----------



## flyte3333

Dobrescu George said:


> A little iDSD BL + Meze 99 Classics fixed me right up! ♡



This is what it's all about - the music and the experience that comes with listening to the music. The iDSD and your favorite cans help to make your favourite music shine.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Em2016 said:


> This is what it's all about - the music and the experience that comes with listening to the music. The iDSD and your favorite cans help to make your favourite music shine.



Absolutely! 

The one thing those devices should do is sound like they are not there. 
To let the music pass flow to us and dazzle us. 
To cancel the world's noise and ease the stress. 
A successful device is a device who can bring enjoyment and relaxation, a device that can give life to music! 

I'm so glad that there are devices that can do this, been looking for something magical before, iDSD BL is exceptionally good at this.


----------



## flyte3333

Dobrescu George said:


> The one thing those devices should do is sound like they are not there.



Well said ! So true


----------



## technobear

MattTCG said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I'm testing your theory to see if you are in fact correct.



It's also covered in the user manual: http://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/data/manual/micro_iDSD_Manual.pdf

When in battery mode, if you stop listening to music the iDSD will go to sleep after a short time (indicated by a green blinking LED). In this state it will recharge the battery (provided USB power is available). As soon as you start music, it will wake up again and is then not charging. Battery life depends on power (gain) mode and volume but even used just as a DAC, after 10 or so straight hours playing it will go flat.


----------



## 329161

Does anyone know if you can use Poweramp as a music player when listening through USB to the Micro BL? I've found a great remote control app which allows me to browse and play files through Poweramp via my Smartwatch.


----------



## Joseph Lin

dcfac73 said:


> Does anyone know if you can use Poweramp as a music player when listening through USB to the Micro BL? I've found a great remote control app which allows me to browse and play files through Poweramp via my Smartwatch.


I think it depends on you DAP. Different DAP has different implementation. I know DP-X1 will not work this way.


----------



## technobear

dcfac73 said:


> Does anyone know if you can use Poweramp as a music player when listening through USB to the Micro BL? I've found a great remote control app which allows me to browse and play files through Poweramp via my Smartwatch.



Wrong forum. Basically it's not about the BL. It's about the phone or tablet.

Try searching within this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/android-phones-and-usb-dacs.595071/


----------



## 329161

Ok, so I've just found out my main phone, Xperia xa, won't work with the BL at all, even using UAPP. Thankfully I have other devices which will work, but it is frustrating. If it's advertised to work with android, then it should on every android device, and also without having to resort to spending extra on special apps.
Dodgy to say the least.


----------



## TheoS53

dcfac73 said:


> Ok, so I've just found out my main phone, Xperia xa, won't work with the BL at all, even using UAPP. Thankfully I have other devices which will work, but it is frustrating. If it's advertised to work with android, then it should on every android device, and also without having to resort to spending extra on special apps.
> Dodgy to say the least.



The fault here is not with the iDSD...it's with you phone. Not all Android have the USB-host functionality. Luckily for you the XA does have it. Did you perhaps recently do a software update? It's likely that you'll need to go into the settings and enable USB audio


----------



## 329161

TheoS53 said:


> The fault here is not with the iDSD...it's with you phone. Not all Android have the USB-host functionality. Luckily for you the XA does have it. Did you perhaps recently do a software update? It's likely that you'll need to go into the settings and enable USB audio


Thanks for the response.
Any idea how to do this on the xa? I've tried a few settings in developer options with no success.


----------



## TheoS53

dcfac73 said:


> Thanks for the response.
> Any idea how to do this on the xa? I've tried a few settings in developer options with no success.



http://support.sonymobile.com/globa...de/connecting-your-device-to-usb-peripherals/


----------



## 329161

Thanks, I did try this too, but when I get to the USB connectivity menu, there is only an option to "install software ".


----------



## Dobrescu George

Hey, does using VLC solve the problem with the connectivity?


----------



## floydfan33

I have an iFi IDSD Micro that will not charge. I have tried the iFi suggested power cycles without success.

I have already paid for one out of warranty repair and the Canadian authorized depot that did the repair for me last time, suggests that it would not be economical to repair and offered me a discount of $50 off the new version.

I am wondering if the battery is easily sourced and replaced, and if anyone has done this?


----------



## Dobrescu George

floydfan33 said:


> I have an iFi IDSD Micro that will not charge. I have tried the iFi suggested power cycles without success.
> 
> I have already paid for one out of warranty repair and the Canadian authorized depot that did the repair for me last time, suggests that it would not be economical to repair and offered me a discount of $50 off the new version.
> 
> I am wondering if the battery is easily sourced and replaced, and if anyone has done this?



Woah 

What happened? 

You kept it charging for all the time you used it? 

The batteries should be possible to replace, but like any product, one you open it, you might lose the warranty. 

@iFi audio  might have some advice or a series for the battery to help you out, but I am curious why the battery stopped charging since mine has been used daily and doesn't show a single sign of usage.


----------



## floydfan33 (May 28, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> Woah
> 
> What happened?
> 
> ...



I have reached out to iFi. It did completely discharge. It was plugged into a usb hub that was inadvertently unplugged and I hadn't used it in several weeks.

Ifi suggested using the blue usb cable included and following a cycle of charge for 2 hours, unplug, repeat, which didn't help.

Just rapidly flashes Blue. Unit is out of warranty and already had to replace the main board in an out of warranty repair.


----------



## Dobrescu George

floydfan33 said:


> I have reached out to iFi. It did completely discharge. It was plugged into a usb hub that was inadvertently unplugged and I hadn't used it in several weeks.
> 
> Ifi suggested using the blue usb cable included and following a cycle of charge for 2 hours, unplug, repeat, which didn't help.
> 
> Just rapidly flashes Blue. Unit is out of warranty and already had to replace the main board in an out of warranty repair.



Oh, I see. 

So what happened was a complete discharge. This is something that would damage almost all batteries out there... If you're looking for a spare battery, someone who disassembled an iDSD might be able to help!


----------



## harpo1

floydfan33 said:


> I have reached out to iFi. It did completely discharge. It was plugged into a usb hub that was inadvertently unplugged and I hadn't used it in several weeks.
> 
> Ifi suggested using the blue usb cable included and following a cycle of charge for 2 hours, unplug, repeat, which didn't help.
> 
> Just rapidly flashes Blue. Unit is out of warranty and already had to replace the main board in an out of warranty repair.


Since it's out of warranty open it up and see if the battery has a part number or something you can use to order a new one.


----------



## floydfan33

harpo1 said:


> Since it's out of warranty open it up and see if the battery has a part number or something you can use to order a new one.



Was already trying to do that . For anyone doing this in future. remember the side tabs before you pull the board out of the chassis.....it's really hooped now. For reference the battery is a PL-M10 3700 MA 3.7V it has a 3 pin removable connector.

Oh well, I'll look forward to my new Mojo.


----------



## twiceboss

Any recommendation for me to add tube preamp between my iDSD BL and iCan SA?


----------



## Dobrescu George

twiceboss said:


> Any recommendation for me to add tube preamp between my iDSD BL and iCan SA?



iFi iTube might work for you? 

Seems like iFi makes everything you need! 

While you're building a complex stack, maybe you should get one of these as well, beautiful rack for your stacks.


----------



## twiceboss

Dobrescu George said:


> iFi iTube might work for you?
> 
> Seems like iFi makes everything you need!
> 
> While you're building a complex stack, maybe you should get one of these as well, beautiful rack for your stacks.


yes gonna get itube2. Not yet for iRack haha


----------



## HungryPanda

I just got the Black edition, how long does it take to charge?


----------



## Dobrescu George

HungryPanda said:


> I just got the Black edition, how long does it take to charge?



First charge, you should leave it as the books says. 

After that, it takes mine ~2-4 hours for a full charge, but I never deplete it entirely.


----------



## HungryPanda

Thanks, the little manual doesn't specify a time though. I'll just leave it till the blue light goes out


----------



## technobear

HungryPanda said:


> Thanks, the little manual doesn't specify a time though. I'll just leave it till the blue light goes out



24 hours for the first charge.


----------



## HungryPanda

Thanks a lot technobear


----------



## dpwolfordMD

I just got my BL and it was about 3 hours for the first charge until the light went out. Not sure where the 24 hours comes in


----------



## dpwolfordMD

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi All
> 
> I was using my iDSD Black with Audioquest NightOwl headphones but found them a bit dull. This surprised me as I'm a bit treble sensitive.
> 
> ...



Hey what's up Darren, I had the audioquest nighthawks before and recently upgraded to the audeze LCD2 and have been very happy with my selection. I couldn't keep from thinking that I was missing out on the highs while listening to the nighthawks. The LCD's are more tonally balanced and can say they sound fantastic on the ifi micro black label. The bass and 3D switches give the extra bit of adjustability (haven't needed to use them yet on my LCD's). 

Btw the little tidbit on Jersey island was fascinating. I like reading about remote, hidden or unknown islands sometimes. Anyways hope that helps!


----------



## Dobrescu George

dpwolfordMD said:


> Hey what's up Darren, I had the audioquest nighthawks before and recently upgraded to the audeze LCD2 and have been very happy with my selection. I couldn't keep from thinking that I was missing out on the highs while listening to the nighthawks. The LCD's are more tonally balanced and can say they sound fantastic on the ifi micro black label. The bass and 3D switches give the extra bit of adjustability (haven't needed to use them yet on my LCD's).
> 
> Btw the little tidbit on Jersey island was fascinating. I like reading about remote, hidden or unknown islands sometimes. Anyways hope that helps!



I also like learning about new places and new stuff! 

BTW, you are correct, LCD-2 is tonally better than nighthawks, much better treble which result to a much better music experience for me. 

On the other hand, Nighthawks are very high in my top of most comfortable headphones, they did an amazing job at making those things stay nicely on one's head!


----------



## dpwolfordMD (Jun 6, 2017)

Dobrescu George said:


> I also like learning about new places and new stuff!
> 
> BTW, you are correct, LCD-2 is tonally better than nighthawks, much better treble which result to a much better music experience for me.
> 
> On the other hand, Nighthawks are very high in my top of most comfortable headphones, they did an amazing job at making those things stay nicely on one's head!



Ah wonderful, so does the 3D switch help bring the highs out at all on the nighthawks?

And I must say I agree with you on the nighthawks, that the design they used for fitment and long term wearing is impeccable. The way it "perches" on your head with a custom fit every time and low weight make them unnoticeable on your head sometimes.

With that being said, if the nighthawks are a 10/10 on comfort, I would rate the LCD2's as a 9/10, being just nearly every bit as comfortable but with more weight. For example, in a 2-3 hour period, I never needed to adjust my nighthawks. But on the LCD's, I have found myself slightly moving the headband either forward or backwards (1/2 and inch) once or twice in a 2-3 hour period.

Overall, I have been very impressed with the LCD's. Have you tried them before? Also would curious to know if the ifi micro BL 3D switch does anything for your nighthawks? Maybe that's the solution to your problem with a little bit of EQ


----------



## Dobrescu George

dpwolfordMD said:


> Ah wonderful, so does the 3D switch help bring the highs out at all on the nighthawks?
> 
> And I must say I agree with you on the nighthawks, that the design they used for fitment and long term wearing is impeccable. The way it "perches" on your head with a custom fit every time and low weight make them unnoticeable on your head sometimes.
> 
> ...



Woah 

iDSD BL's 3D is really handy for some things, but I still add more treble for Night Hawks to make them on par with my tastes and expectations. 

I don't actually own Night Hawks, just had the chance to listen one for an extended period of time due to AVstore's friendliness. 

(Don own LCD-2 either, just tested them for a good amount of time) I do think that LCD-2 are considerably better for me, but I do find them a bit heavy and I get neck strain when wearing them for more than half an hour, so NightHawk's comfort is a big plus for me. I also like the design and outer looks on both, both are cool looking headphones. 

I found iDSD BL to drive both LCD-2 and NightHawks really well for me, as well as HD800S, making iDSD BL the DAC/AMP I would pick for either of those headphones, along with all of my IEMs and other headphones.


----------



## The Walrus (Jun 6, 2017)

I use my Micro as a desktop DAC and always on. This lag coming on from stand-by is very annoying. Is there any downside of using the B firmware if the Micro is always on?
Man, I hate this new design. Isn't there any way to search a thread?


----------



## Topspin70

The Walrus said:


> I use my Micro as a desktop DAC and always on. This lag coming on from stand-by is very annoying. Is there any downside of using the B firmware if the Micro is always on?
> Man, I hate this new design. Isn't there any way to search a thread?



Is the lag very long? Mine (the BL) takes only around 2 seconds, with a soft 'pop' and it starts playing.


----------



## technobear

The Walrus said:


> I use my Micro as a desktop DAC and always on. This lag coming on from stand-by is very annoying. Is there any downside of using the B firmware if the Micro is always on?
> Man, I hate this new design. Isn't there any way to search a thread?



If you click the search box, the search popup will appear. The option to *'Search this thread only'* is there.


----------



## The Walrus

Topspin70 said:


> Is the lag very long? Mine (the BL) takes only around 2 seconds, with a soft 'pop' and it starts playing.



About two seconds yes.


----------



## Topspin70

The Walrus said:


> About two seconds yes.



That's bearable, at least to me. For the way it preserves and optimises battery, it's a small compromise IMO.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Topspin70 said:


> That's bearable, at least to me. For the way it preserves and optimises battery, it's a small compromise IMO.



I agree with this. 

In fact, I didn't even notice this effect until recently and it never bothered me. 

As long as there is something playing, there is no pause and I usually just don't pause the music if I don't want the effect to happen.


----------



## potatoe94

ClieOS said:


> It is based on the theory that somewhere in the recording and mastering chain that some music suffer from phase inversion (and sometime, ever on the playback chain. i.e. some IEM has inverted phase by design to achieve a desired sound signature). In simple: as music is in AC form, it swing from a (+) voltage to a (-) voltage and back all the time. In a signal with inverted phase, you get (-) voltage of equal strength instead of the original (+) voltage, or vise versa. We human however isn't particularly sensitive to the absolute phase so most will never notice any difference. However, some people do believe the 'right' phase restore the musicality back into the recording. The polarity switch is for those people who want to correct the phase issue in their setup. So the (+) option will leave your music as it is, where the (-) option will invert the phase of your music (= two negative give a positive).
> 
> Or even simpler: Keep it on (+) if you don't hear any difference.



I thought the polarity switch was bull until i met an IEM that prove otherwise . The Beyerdynamic Xelento sounds more musical and intimate with polarity set to "-" , but that's my preference , but the effects are greater than most iems i have plugged in it & played with polarity .


----------



## Dobrescu George

potatoe94 said:


> I thought the polarity switch was bull until i met an IEM that prove otherwise . The Beyerdynamic Xelento sounds more musical and intimate with polarity set to "-" , but that's my preference , but the effects are greater than most iems i have plugged in it & played with polarity .



Woah 

I had no idea that it makes a difference on the headphone out. I thought that it is intended to work when iDSD BL is used as a DAC or pre-amp with a full size setup


----------



## Topspin70

potatoe94 said:


> I thought the polarity switch was bull until i met an IEM that prove otherwise . The Beyerdynamic Xelento sounds more musical and intimate with polarity set to "-" , but that's my preference , but the effects are greater than most iems i have plugged in it & played with polarity .



Interesting that you point this out. How does one tell that a IEM is inverted phase by design, and hence need switching polarity? Or a piece of music is recorded or engineered with some phase inversion? For the latter, I would probably assume the recording isn't great. Would never cross my mind that it's suffering from some phase inversion, and I should use the BL can correct it.


----------



## phthora

So, pardon the noob question, but what does the polarity switch do? I flipped it and I can sometimes tell a difference, but I'm not sure what that difference actually consists of.


----------



## Topspin70

phthora said:


> So, pardon the noob question, but what does the polarity switch do? I flipped it and I can sometimes tell a difference, but I'm not sure what that difference actually consists of.



It's quoted in @potatoe94 's post a little earlier. Might give you an idea: 

"It is based on the theory that somewhere in the recording and mastering chain that some music suffer from phase inversion (and sometime, ever on the playback chain. i.e. some IEM has inverted phase by design to achieve a desired sound signature). In simple: as music is in AC form, it swing from a (+) voltage to a (-) voltage and back all the time. In a signal with inverted phase, you get (-) voltage of equal strength instead of the original (+) voltage, or vise versa. We human however isn't particularly sensitive to the absolute phase so most will never notice any difference. However, some people do believe the 'right' phase restore the musicality back into the recording. The polarity switch is for those people who want to correct the phase issue in their setup. So the (+) option will leave your music as it is, where the (-) option will invert the phase of your music (= two negative give a positive)."


----------



## phthora

Topspin70 said:


> It's quoted in @potatoe94 's post a little earlier. Might give you an idea:
> 
> "It is based on the theory that somewhere in the recording and mastering chain that some music suffer from phase inversion (and sometime, ever on the playback chain. i.e. some IEM has inverted phase by design to achieve a desired sound signature). In simple: as music is in AC form, it swing from a (+) voltage to a (-) voltage and back all the time. In a signal with inverted phase, you get (-) voltage of equal strength instead of the original (+) voltage, or vise versa. We human however isn't particularly sensitive to the absolute phase so most will never notice any difference. However, some people do believe the 'right' phase restore the musicality back into the recording. The polarity switch is for those people who want to correct the phase issue in their setup. So the (+) option will leave your music as it is, where the (-) option will invert the phase of your music (= two negative give a positive)."



Thank you for the response. After playing with the switch for a while, it is interesting to actually know what it does. From the description, it would seem to make much more of a difference than what I actually experienced, which is just that music sounds a bit duller and less three-dimensional one way versus the other. I guess it's just another option to keep in mind to dial in the perfect sound.


----------



## Topspin70

phthora said:


> Thank you for the response. After playing with the switch for a while, it is interesting to actually know what it does. From the description, it would seem to make much more of a difference than what I actually experienced, which is just that music sounds a bit duller and less three-dimensional one way versus the other. I guess it's just another option to keep in mind to dial in the perfect sound.



Agree. It does sound like something to use in only certain cases. 

I myself have no idea what music with phase inverted sounds like. Perhaps if we heard a sample we will know when to flip the polarity switch. Wonder if anyone has such a track to share to enlighten us.


----------



## iFi audio

Topspin70 said:


> Agree. It does sound like something to use in only certain cases.
> 
> I myself have no idea what music with phase inverted sounds like. Perhaps if we heard a sample we will know when to flip the polarity switch. Wonder if anyone has such a track to share to enlighten us.



This effect is the strongest on natural, minimalist recordings. 

On multi-tracked pop/rock recordings, polarity of individual tracks in the mix may be inverted, for example inverting the polarity of the singers voice is a common trick to make the voice better "cut through" a dense mix. But if you fix the singers vocals polarity, drums and guitars may now be inverted. So simply select what sounds "right" which may depend if you focus on drums, guitars or vocals.

To test this the way you suggest, take any simple mike'd direct recording you like (regardless of recording polarity) and use any audio editor to invert polarity (for example Audacity can do this).

That way you have two identical pieces with opposite polarity to listen to. and you can experiment.

While no necessarily in agreement with all points raised, we can recommend the following article as additional reading on this whole polarity issue:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue1/cjwoodeffect.htm


----------



## Dobrescu George

iFi audio said:


> This effect is the strongest on natural, minimalist recordings.
> 
> On multi-tracked pop/rock recordings, polarity of individual tracks in the mix may be inverted, for example inverting the polarity of the singers voice is a common trick to make the voice better "cut through" a dense mix. But if you fix the singers vocals polarity, drums and guitars may now be inverted. So simply select what sounds "right" which may depend if you focus on drums, guitars or vocals.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for the very informative bit! 

The default position is (-) for polarity, no?


----------



## RAQemUP

I believe default position is + for polarity.


----------



## phthora

Mine came with polarity set to positive.


----------



## Dobrescu George

RAQemUP said:


> I believe default position is + for polarity.





phthora said:


> Mine came with polarity set to positive.



Okay, thank you very much for your answers!!


----------



## iFi audio

Dobrescu George said:


> Thank you very much for the very informative bit!
> 
> The default position is (-) for polarity, no?



On the contrary, it is "+" which preserves the polarity of the recording.


----------



## Dobrescu George

iFi audio said:


> On the contrary, it is "+" which preserves the polarity of the recording.



Thank you! 

I changed it a few times around and forgot which state was meant to keep the original polarity of the song. 

I will play more with it and testing it in the next few days, it got me curious to understand how it influences the sound, or rather how will it sound to me.


----------



## piksnz

Got my Sony xz premium and it does not work with idsd black. Tried Onkyo and it won't detect usb. Tried choosing audio output in usb developer options. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Dobrescu George

piksnz said:


> Got my Sony xz premium and it does not work with idsd black. Tried Onkyo and it won't detect usb. Tried choosing audio output in usb developer options. Any help is appreciated.



I am not sure how to help you there, it just works natively with F2K and VLC for me


----------



## piksnz

Dobrescu George said:


> I am not sure how to help you there, it just works natively with F2K and VLC for me


But it is not working for google play music as well. Did you choose any particular mode or setting?


----------



## turkayguner

Hey guys, if you lost you iDSD or it gets broken, would you buy it again? Or would you buy another DAC & amp?


----------



## Topspin70

turkayguner said:


> Hey guys, if you lost you iDSD or it gets broken, would you buy it again? Or would you buy another DAC & amp?



For the BL I would. Don't know any other portable all-in-ones that sounds this good or has as much power.


----------



## phthora

turkayguner said:


> Hey guys, if you lost you iDSD or it gets broken, would you buy it again? Or would you buy another DAC & amp?



In a heartbeat. Until they release a Black Label with balanced out, I will consider this my endgame portable DAC/amp.


----------



## harpo1

For transportable this for sure but portable I'll go with the mojo.


----------



## Dobrescu George

piksnz said:


> But it is not working for google play music as well. Did you choose any particular mode or setting?



I just plugged it in, works natively with Xiaomi Mi Max. 

The only thing I think I do is that I turn the volume wheel to "on" before plugging in the USB so it doesn't try to drain power from the phone, it should work driverless and hassle-free from Android phones. 



turkayguner said:


> Hey guys, if you lost you iDSD or it gets broken, would you buy it again? Or would you buy another DAC & amp?



Yes, most probably iDSD would be my top choice again, at least compared to all devices I heard so far, it would surely be. It is the one thing that impressed me the most when it comes to DAC/AMP technologies and I explored a lot of those. 

The only thing that people recommend and I am really curious is to stack iDSD BL with iCAN SE, which I am probably going to try soon, looks like there are a lot of fun and enjoyable devices made by iFi, when I find something that I like, I stick to it like glue.


----------



## 397324

Hi

Can you list if you are using another USB cable and what it is, if you are not using the blue one that comes with the iDSD.

Regards

Darren


----------



## Dobrescu George

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi
> 
> Can you list if you are using another USB cable and what it is, if you are not using the blue one that comes with the iDSD.
> 
> ...



I am using two cables for my listening, one is the cable that came with iDSD BL and the other cable is an OTG that came with the first generation of FiiO X5. I hope this helps you in some way! 

For android, I am pretty sure one needs an OTG cable to make it work.


----------



## 397324 (Jun 15, 2017)

Thanks. I was just wondering if people were using exotic USB cables with the converter that came with the iDSD.

Is there any reason iFi couldn't have used a standard USB connector? I know there is a converter included in the package, but I use my iDSD Black beside me on the couch, so don't really want a converter wobbling about.


----------



## piksnz

So far every android phone worked with the iDSD. Looks like Sony Xperia XZ premium is exception.


----------



## Dobrescu George

piksnz said:


> So far every android phone worked with the iDSD. Looks like Sony Xperia XZ premium is exception.



That is very weird, especially since it has Android and Android 7 on it... 

Your cables are surely OTG? 

Maybe installing something like another app will work. I remember that some apps don't work directly, but some can bypass that. I forgot the name of the app that works on almost any smartphone. I think that it was Neutron, but am not 100% sure.


----------



## piksnz

Dobrescu George said:


> That is very weird, especially since it has Android and Android 7 on it...
> 
> Your cables are surely OTG?
> 
> Maybe installing something like another app will work. I remember that some apps don't work directly, but some can bypass that. I forgot the name of the app that works on almost any smartphone. I think that it was Neutron, but am not 100% sure.


Yes same cable worked with my s8. Strange. Very bad experience with Sony Xperia XZ Premium. Tried with all the apps. Also in settings -> device connections -> usb . There are no usb device option.


----------



## Dobrescu George

piksnz said:


> Yes same cable worked with my s8. Strange. Very bad experience with Sony Xperia XZ Premium. Tried with all the apps. Also in settings -> device connections -> usb . There are no usb device option.



Woah, they might have changed the base Android configuration then. Although, it does make me wonder, why would they take away a feature if they're changing things. It would take them less effort to leave the feature there than re-write Google's Android to not work with an USB DAC. 

Xiaomi Mi Max has Miui on it, which is far from vanilla Android, and it works absolutely flawless with iDSD BL. It works so good that anytime I'm using my smartphone for music and such, I connect iDSD BL for an ultimate experience. At least I know that Xiaomi phones should all work since they all use a fork of the same Miui base.


----------



## technobear

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks. I was just wondering if people were using exotic USB cables with the converter that came with the iDSD.
> 
> Is there any reason iFi couldn't have used a standard USB connector? I know there is a converter included in the package, but I use my iDSD Black beside me on the couch, so don't really want a converter wobbling about.



Hi Darren, I am using a range of cables here on my two iDSDs and an iDAC2. What I have found is that if you are using an iPurifier2 and once it is warmed up, the cables make no difference. However without the iPurifier2, the Gemini cable definitely makes a nice difference, especially in the bass. Kimber USB also works nicely. I no longer use the blue cable because it won't fit the iPurifier2 but it's not a bad cable - better than cheap USB cables.

The reason for the USB Type A connection on the iDSD is so that it can be used with an OTG adaptor or Apple Camera Kit without any additional adaptors for a neat portable solution.


----------



## 397324

Thanks for the reply. Doesn't the iDSD have an iPurifier built in? I've seen almost identical blue USB cables on Amazon.co.uk for less that £5. Just a very slight difference in the shape of the female end.

A bit silly regarding the OTG thing. Why not let them use an adaptor and the majority of users using the iDSD on a PC or MAC can use whatever cable they want.


----------



## phthora

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi
> 
> Can you list if you are using another USB cable and what it is, if you are not using the blue one that comes with the iDSD.
> 
> ...



I am also looking for a replacement cable. I just want something shorter so I can have a smaller footprint on my desk.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the reply. Doesn't the iDSD have an iPurifier built in? I've seen almost identical blue USB cables on Amazon.co.uk for less that £5. Just a very slight difference in the shape of the female end.
> 
> A bit silly regarding the OTG thing. Why not let them use an adaptor and the majority of users using the iDSD on a PC or MAC can use whatever cable they want.



Without having female on iDSD BL, it would be next to impossible to use it portably, that female USB really makes things nice for portable usage. I also found the blue USB cable that comes in the package to be very good, cannot complain about it in any way. 



phthora said:


> I am also looking for a replacement cable. I just want something shorter so I can have a smaller footprint on my desk.



Finding one that fits perfectly with iDSD might be the tricky part there, but I'm sure there are plenty if one looks hard enough. 

What I generally do is I push cables beyond my desk, so any cabling I have goes out of laptop to the back of the desk, then it makes a comeback to the back of the devices, this way there are not too many cables on my desk. 

I do appreciate the long cable though, it is a life saver, if, for example, you're using a smartphone charger to charge iDSD while not in usage. I do this a lot actually, since iDSD BL is stacked with FiiO X5ii, I charge each with my phone charger without breaking the stack.


----------



## technobear

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the reply. Doesn't the iDSD have an iPurifier built in?



iPurifier2 is more advanced and does a whole lot more than iPurifier:

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier2/


----------



## Topspin70

There's this hard adapter that comes highly recommended by a fellow forumer: 

https://www.firefold.com/usb-3-0-type-a-male-to-usb-type-a-female-adapter

Might be what some of you are looking for.


----------



## iFi audio

To be shown with Sennheiser Orpheus HE-1 is a reason for us to be proud, hence we'll just leave the proof here...


----------



## flyte3333

Topspin70 said:


> There's this hard adapter that comes highly recommended by a fellow forumer:
> 
> https://www.firefold.com/usb-3-0-type-a-male-to-usb-type-a-female-adapter
> 
> Might be what some of you are looking for.



Yup +1 for this. I tried some cheap ones from eBay and opened them up and wasn't too impressed with what I saw in terms of build quality. 

I bought a couple of the Firefold ones and opened one and was very happy with what I saw, just in terms of build quality only.

And yep it fits inside the iDSD's recessed USB port.


----------



## MattTCG

Is the DAC section on idsd BL and the original the same. I thought that I remembered the upgrades and changes were all to the action section but couldn't remember.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 2, 2017)

Can any one confirm this will output pcm audio sound natively from my tv without compability issues using optical cable. Just have ordered one.

And my plan is to use it as a dac feeding my newly bought lake peopel rs 02 HPA and tv as my source. Listening with hd 650

Or will it sound best with hd 650 directly connected to the idsd bl? Makeing the rs 02 HPA less usefull.


----------



## technobear

bluenight said:


> Can any one confirm this will output PCM audio sound natively from my TV without compatibility issues using optical cable.



Yes. The 3D sound is very effective with TV and movies. Set your TV to output PCM stereo, not 5.1 surround or whatever.



bluenight said:


> And my plan is to use it as a DAC feeding my newly bought Lake People RS 02 HPA and TV as my source. Listening with HD 650
> 
> Or will it sound best with HD 650 directly connected to the iDSD BL? Making the RS 02 HPA less useful



That is for you to decide.


----------



## BillsonChang007

MattTCG said:


> Is the DAC section on idsd BL and the original the same. I thought that I remembered the upgrades and changes were all to the action section but couldn't remember.


Chip wise, yes they are the same but iFi said they made some improvement on the lineout section that makes the BL better. I however, can't hear a massive difference when using both with external amp in terms of SQ


----------



## bluenight (Jul 3, 2017)

technobear said:


> Yes. The 3D sound is very effective with TV and movies. Set your TV to output PCM stereo, not 5.1 surround or whatever.


Great thanks for the info.

And i still can use the 3d and xbass when using it as a dac with rca to my RS 02 HPA?


----------



## technobear

bluenight said:


> Great thanks for the info.
> 
> And i still can use the 3d and xbass when using it as a dac with rca to my RS 02 HPA?



Only by engaging pre-amp mode - which will give you two volume controls - twice the fun!


----------



## bluenight (Jul 3, 2017)

technobear said:


> Only by engaging pre-amp mode - which will give you two volume controls - twice the fun!


Nice, i might find them usefull.

And engaging it pre amp will not add extra noise or distorsion? vs fixed out


----------



## The Walrus

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi
> 
> Can you list if you are using another USB cable and what it is, if you are not using the blue one that comes with the iDSD.
> 
> ...



A standard 3 mt USB extension cable between my PC and Micro.


----------



## iFi audio

bluenight said:


> Can any one confirm this will output pcm audio sound natively from my tv without compability issues using optical cable.



Any digital spdif/optical source set to PCM Audio output (not Dolby Digital/AC-3 etc.) should work with the spdif input of the iDSD micro.



bluenight said:


> Or will it sound best with hd 650 directly connected to the idsd bl?



In Turbo Mode the iDSD micro can output > 10V into high impedance headphones (like the HD-650) with most or all of the output in Class A. 

This is more than enough output to create sound levels that will cause permanent hearing damage with HD650 Headphones. 

Of course, subjective sound quality being, well subjective, some may prefer external headphone amplifiers over the one fitted in the iDSD micro. 

Doing so however means the loss of the 3D Matrix for headphones, and unless the extra degradation from having two volume controls  and additional preamplifier circuitry has no negative impact, also of X-Bass.


----------



## Dobrescu George

iFi audio said:


> Any digital spdif/optical source set to PCM Audio output (not Dolby Digital/AC-3 etc.) should work with the spdif input of the iDSD micro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe your Micro iCAN SE, I've seen a few people who go with it along their iDSD BL.


----------



## TheoS53

Gents, just wondering if I should be concerned. Was conducting some FR tests today and noticed that my BL is giving a strange response for some reason (graph attached).

I measured other amps etc, and they're giving a flat response, where as the BL is giving that response. Perhaps @iFi audio could be of some help


----------



## TheoS53

Ok, something weird is going on on the USB side of the BL. here are 2 graphs to compare, 1 being for the USB input, and the other for optical


----------



## Topspin70

Dobrescu George said:


> Maybe your Micro iCAN SE, I've seen a few people who go with it along their iDSD BL.



I've been A/B-ing with and without the iCAN SE and while having it adds more texture and warmth to the sound, I am beginning to think that I like the BL better on its own as it sounds more neutral, smooth and even sweeter.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 6, 2017)

iFi audio said:


> Any digital spdif/optical source set to PCM Audio output (not Dolby Digital/AC-3 etc.) should work with the spdif input of the iDSD micro.


Out of the box new i tried it with optical from my tv for 20 minutes and unfortunately the sound could stop for one second and then continue and it kept doing so from time to time . It was when using chromecast. Dident heard it on the built in netflix on my tv. Never heard that with my previous dac.
Maybe it could have been because of low battery, but i had usb 3.0 charging it and then powered it on. Or maybe i hadent pushed the optical adapter all the way in.

Had it set to pcm bit perfect, thats the right choice right?

I am going to listen more really soon and see if it stays that way. Could be faulty? Maybe a FW uppgrade will help

Btw i really liked the sound from idsd to my amp more fullbodied then my previous cheap $20 dac, i thought my Lake people RS 02 amp was thin sounding before but no more


----------



## bluenight (Jul 6, 2017)

After some more listening with fully charged battery it stil loses the sound for a second from time to time with optical from my tv. Most frequently with chromecast (about once every 30 seconds) and lesser frequently with PS3(about once every 5 min)  both connected with hdmi to my tv and i havent heard it in the built in apps on my lg oled B6 tv . Had FW 5.2 and have uppgraded to 5.2B. And got it to work on my computer with out sound issues with usb at least.

To me it seems there are sources sending out pcm sound from the tv with different strength and the idsd seems sensitive to that,  at least my unit.

Faulty unit ?
Someone else using this with optical from the tv with different sources connected to the tv and have no sound dropping issues at all know mather what source?

To bad because it sound great.


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> Ok, something weird is going on on the USB side of the BL. here are 2 graphs to compare, 1 being for the USB input, and the other for optical



There is absolutely no possibility for the iDSD micro to give different outputs (even jtter) beyond experimental variation *if* presented with the identical digital signals via USB or SPDIF/Optical.

So, your USB delivered signal is not identical with that delivered to optical input. Hence your test setup introduces some form of sample rate conversion or other manipulation when running via USB or different test signals are used.

For testing we recommend Audio Precision Equipment, such as we use in our in our lab. While it has limitations, it generally avoids a lot of mistaken results.


----------



## TheoS53

iFi audio said:


> There is absolutely no possibility for the iDSD micro to give different outputs (even jtter) beyond experimental variation *if* presented with the identical digital signals via USB or SPDIF/Optical.
> 
> So, your USB delivered signal is not identical with that delivered to optical input. Hence your test setup introduces some form of sample rate conversion or other manipulation when running via USB or different test signals are used.
> 
> For testing we recommend Audio Precision Equipment, such as we use in our in our lab. While it has limitations, it generally avoids a lot of mistaken results.



I agree, so perhaps you can tell me where I'm going wrong (and I genuinely hope you will be able to do so). The file I used for all 3 test was this white noise wav https://www.dropbox.com/s/ju3sgtiubihftl5/White_PN_65536_48000_1_24000.wav?dl=0

You'll see that I made 2 posts regarding this matter. This first graph was with the wav file being played through the iDSD BL connected to my Hidizs AP60 as the source.
The second post showed the response of that exact same wav file being played through the iDSD via USB and Foobar2000 as the app from my desktop.
And the 3rd graph showed the response of that same wav file being played through the iDSD via optical from my desktop, and again Foobar2000 used as the app. 

Does the fact that I'm getting the same strange response when using USB as the input to the iDSD BL from 2 DIFFERENT SOURCES not indicate that there is indeed an issue on the USB side for my device?


----------



## bluenight (Jul 7, 2017)

Can someone do me a favour and connect your idsd bl to you tv with optical and see if it can handle all various hdmi sources connected to the tv like chromecast, set top boxes, game consoles. Then i will know if my unit is faulty or if this is the way with all units so i dont have to try another unit unnecessarily.

As i have said, on my lg oled b6 tv it only works flawless with the built in apps, where the other sources connected with hdmi loose the sound for a second to come back and that happens from time to time.

@iFi audio what you think of this?
And i wonder do you do alot of testings on your dacs that have optical connections when developing them and test that they can handle various sources, like computers, smartphones, and tvs?
I especially wonder about testings with tvs and sources connected to them. I think many buy dacs for tvs these days.

And if you do not have those routines for your dacs, i hope ifi will start to have those routines for testing that the dac can handle all various sources connected to the tv.


----------



## technobear

I've never experienced a problem with my TV optical out to the iDSD when using other sources, those being my computer and my PVR.


----------



## bluenight (Jul 7, 2017)

technobear said:


> I've never experienced a problem with my TV optical out to the iDSD when using other sources, those being my computer and my PVR.


Alright thanks. Maybe its my tv that has an unlucky compability with the idsd bl or the unit is faulty which i doubt because it prove it can handle at least the pcm singnal flawless from the built in apps. I think its a bit strange.

Never had this issue with my previous fiio dac using same optical cable connected to the tv.


----------



## iFi audio

bluenight said:


> Alright thanks. Maybe its my tv that has an unlucky compability with the idsd bl or the unit is faulty which i doubt because it prove it can handle at least the pcm singnal flawless from the built in apps. I think its a bit strange.
> 
> Never had this issue with my previous fiio dac using same optical cable connected to the tv.



Please check whether the 3.5mm adapter is correctly attached and locked in the socket. 

If this reliably the case, please use our Support Ticket System, to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com


----------



## iFi audio (Jul 7, 2017)

TheoS53 said:


> I agree, so perhaps you can tell me where I'm going wrong (and I genuinely hope you will be able to do so). The file I used for all 3 test was this white noise wav https://www.dropbox.com/s/ju3sgtiubihftl5/White_PN_65536_48000_1_24000.wav?dl=0
> 
> You'll see that I made 2 posts regarding this matter. This first graph was with the wav file being played through the iDSD BL connected to my Hidizs AP60 as the source.
> The second post showed the response of that exact same wav file being played through the iDSD via USB and Foobar2000 as the app from my desktop.
> ...



We already have commented that the cause is external to iDSD micro, because of the fundamental design of this product. Processing is added somewhere in your recording playback or recording chain.

Others have performed similar measurements before also getting incorrect results. Still, some folks got them correct (e.g. here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/ifi-micro-idsd-black-label-in-depth-review.833933/). We advise you to peruse the archives.

If there is no digital domain signal manipulation before the signal is applied to iDSD micro, there is absolutely no measurable difference (within the confidence limits of the Audio Precision System Two we use for testing) between USB and SPDIF signals delivered at the analogue outputs of the iDSD micro.

Past that, we cannot be expected to trouble-shoot your measurement setup. That's on you 

However, to repeat, the result you're getting is ONLY and STRICTLY possible if:

A) The data is altered (usually sample rate conversion by Windows, OSX or Linux) by the playback setup prior to being sent to the iDSD micro via USB.

B) The recorded is being altered (usually sample rate conversion by Windows, OSX or Linux) when recording to the same PC used for playback (likely) or different PC (less likely) using USB connected recording devices.

If you'd like to have authoritative and reliable measurements, you should rely on solid and proven test hardware, like Prism 'dscope or Audio Precision System Two or similar.


----------



## bluenight

iFi audio said:


> Please check whether the 3.5mm adapter is correctly attached and locked in the socket.
> 
> If this reliably the case, please use our Support Ticket System, to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com


I am sure the 3,5 mm is correctly connected. And i have sent ifi a support ticket already.


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## bluenight (Jul 10, 2017)

When the sound works they really make my hd 650 sound very detailed and clear and at the same time not harsh, never heard voices this clear. Has great soundstage. Bass digs deep to. All in all very good sound quaility could be end game level for me. But i cant keep it because the way it looses the sound from time to time with optical to my tv. I hope the store let me try another one to see if mine is faulty or i get my money back.

And maybe wait for the next ifi micro idsd release, i hope ifi puts in spdif galvanic isolation on that one. Like they did on the ione.


----------



## iFi audio

bluenight said:


> But i cant keep it because the way it looses the sound from time to time with optical to my tv. I hope the store let me try another one to see if mine is faulty or i get my money back.



Do you have the possibility to try a different optical input? Also, as remarked before, because you need an adapter, it's possible that it's not attached in 100%. It needs to be correctly mated with used optical cable in order to work in 100% reliably. 

Another thing is that the TV might have some form of digital processing on, be it delay compensation or other DSP.

Past that, if you use an optical cable, your SPDIF is galvanicaly isolated - for the optical input there is no relevant difference between the iOne nano and iDSD micro, both use the same circuit etc.


----------



## bluenight

iFi audio said:


> Do you have the possibility to try a different optical input? Also, as remarked before, because you need an adapter, it's possible that it's not attached in 100%. It needs to be correctly mated with used optical cable in order to work in 100% reliably.
> 
> Another thing is that the TV might have some form of digital processing on, be it delay compensation or other DSP.
> 
> Past that, if you use an optical cable, your SPDIF is galvanicaly isolated - for the optical input there is no relevant difference between the iOne nano and iDSD micro, both use the same circuit etc.


 I have only one optical cable at home and it works fine with my tv when using with an fiio do3k basic dac. And for the idsd the adaptor snaps on very well on to my optical cable. And i push the mini connection all the way in on to idsd. And it works fine with the built in tv apps only and not with hdmi sources.


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## bluenight (Jul 13, 2017)

iFi audio said:


> Do you have the possibility to try a different optical input?


Yeah tried the idsd bl with optical to my computer and it worked flawless there. Used the same optical cable used to my tv. So have to be some compability isues when using hdmi sources on my lg b6 oled tv.

Also have tried an chord hugo for two weeks to my tv with optical and it had no sound dropping isues no mather what source.


----------



## cardeli22

Not sure where I should put this but the BL is on sale on Adorama.com via the slick deals link for 379$: https://slickdeals.net/f/10293720-i...dac-and-headphone-amplifier-380-free-shipping


----------



## Dobrescu George

cardeli22 said:


> Not sure where I should put this but the BL is on sale on Adorama.com via the slick deals link for 379$: https://slickdeals.net/f/10293720-i...dac-and-headphone-amplifier-380-free-shipping



That looks like such a sweet deal! 

It is worth every penny at its full price, having a discount makes things even cooler!


----------



## cardeli22

lol, sadly i just got it last month for 469$ brand new sealed on Ebay. Still a great deal vs the normal price.


----------



## cardeli22

Dobrescu George said:


> That looks like such a sweet deal!
> 
> It is worth every penny at its full price, having a discount makes things even cooler!



Yeah it is! I am using it with the AKG7XX, and the MH40s. I got to demo it with the 1770pro and the 1990pro at Audio46 in NYC. Really enjoyed both but am leaning towards getting the 1990pro.


----------



## harrinj

Does anybody know how to fix this annoying problem or has run into this yourself..I have the black label and my LG V20 charges this DAC and I cannot listen to it for more than about an hour maybe hour and a half until my phone is completely dead. I turn the black label on before I connect it but that does not make a difference and the DAC is fully charged before. If anybody has this problem too and knows how to make android NOT become a power supply, let me know please! There's no settings to turn it off phone wise that I can see.


----------



## Dobrescu George

harrinj said:


> Does anybody know how to fix this annoying problem or has run into this yourself..I have the black label and my LG V20 charges this DAC and I cannot listen to it for more than about an hour maybe hour and a half until my phone is completely dead. I turn the black label on before I connect it but that does not make a difference and the DAC is fully charged before. If anybody has this problem too and knows how to make android NOT become a power supply, let me know please! There's no settings to turn it off phone wise that I can see.



I turn it on before connecting it to Mi  Max and it doesn't take any battery from Mi Max


----------



## RAQemUP

Do you have the B firmware installed? There are 2 firmwares. The B one cuts off drawing power from USB when done properly so that it can be used with phones and DAPs.


----------



## harrinj

I imagine it's the latest firmware. I don't know why they'd make a new product and have old firmware on it. Mines the Black label edition, I got it last February. I'll check though. I thought if you turned the the Micro IDSD on before you hook it up to the phone, it uses its own power but my phone still shows the "power supply" banner and sure enough acts as a power supply, charges it and drains my battery fast.


----------



## Dobrescu George

harrinj said:


> I imagine it's the latest firmware. I don't know why they'd make a new product and have old firmware on it. Mines the Black label edition, I got it last February. I'll check though. I thought if you turned the the Micro IDSD on before you hook it up to the phone, it uses its own power but my phone still shows the "power supply" banner and sure enough acts as a power supply, charges it and drains my battery fast.



There are two versions, a B version and a normal version, the B version is built especially for smartphones and it helps exactly with this problem. 

http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## technobear

harrinj said:


> Does anybody know how to fix this annoying problem or has run into this yourself. I have the black label and my LG V20 charges this DAC and I cannot listen to it for more than about an hour maybe hour and a half until my phone is completely dead. I turn the black label on before I connect it but that does not make a difference and the DAC is fully charged before. If anybody has this problem too and knows how to make android NOT become a power supply, let me know please! There's no settings to turn it off phone wise that I can see.



Are you listening to music for the entire time the iDSD is connect to the V20?

If you stop playing music, the iDSD will go to sleep and in this mode (blinking green LED) it will charge from the phone.

You can prevent this behaviour by downloading alternative firmware for the iDSD: http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## Vartan

Hi guys.
Can iDSD run 400i on ECO mode while listening old records with hight dynamic range?


----------



## cardeli22

harrinj said:


> Does anybody know how to fix this annoying problem or has run into this yourself..I have the black label and my LG V20 charges this DAC and I cannot listen to it for more than about an hour maybe hour and a half until my phone is completely dead. I turn the black label on before I connect it but that does not make a difference and the DAC is fully charged before. If anybody has this problem too and knows how to make android NOT become a power supply, let me know please! There's no settings to turn it off phone wise that I can see.


There is a firmware update (5.2b) that fixes that issue: http://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/


----------



## Dobrescu George

Vartan said:


> Hi guys.
> Can iDSD run 400i on ECO mode while listening old records with hight dynamic range?



Not absolutely sure, but you can turn power to normal or turbo if you need, there is no negative difference in SQ as far as I can tell...


----------



## normanl

Does anyone know where to buy the cable to connect FiiO X5 1st generation (serving as transport) to Micro iDSD BL, i.e. 3.5mm male to coaxial male cable? I googled it without success.


----------



## HungryPanda

http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk..._RCA_Coaxial_Digital_Adapter_Cable.14800.html


Fiio L21


----------



## normanl

http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk..._RCA_Coaxial_Digital_Adapter_Cable.14800.html


Fiio L21[/QUOTE]

The cable you listed only works for X5 2nd generation, not 1st generation. The cable I need is for X5 1st generation.


----------



## technobear

normanl said:


> > http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk..._RCA_Coaxial_Digital_Adapter_Cable.14800.html
> >
> >
> > Fiio L21
> ...




https://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-Mono...2&sr=1-7&keywords=Digital+coaxial+cable+3.5mm


----------



## Yethal

Can't find anything in here since we moved to the new forum so I have to ask. Does somebody has a reliable source of angled USB OTG cables for the iDSD? I found one guy in China that makes angled cables but he's out of stock (for those interested: http://www.chinaglobalmall.com/products/539650496519)
I already messaged gixxerwimp about his DIY cable but maybe there is someone/something that I missed.


----------



## normanl

technobear said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-Mono...2&sr=1-7&keywords=Digital+coaxial+cable+3.5mm


Does this 3.5mm mono plug transmit mono or stereo signals?


----------



## harpo1

normanl said:


> Does this 3.5mm mono plug transmit mono or stereo signals?


It transmits a digital signal.


----------



## normanl

harpo1 said:


> It transmits a digital signal.


Do I hear stereo or mono audio analogue signal if I use this adapter with 3.5mm mono plug connecting to 3.5mm  coaxial digital output of FiiO X5 DAP (serving as transport) and RCA coaxial end through coaxial cable  connecting to RCA coaxial digital input of Micro iDSD BL (serving as DAC)?


----------



## harpo1

normanl said:


> Do I hear stereo or mono audio analogue signal if I use this adapter with 3.5mm mono plug connecting to 3.5mm  coaxial digital output of FiiO X5 DAP (serving as transport) and RCA coaxial end through coaxial cable  connecting to RCA coaxial digital input of Micro iDSD BL (serving as DAC)?


You'll hear whatever it's recorded in.


----------



## technobear

normanl said:


> Do I hear stereo or mono audio analogue signal if I use this adapter with 3.5mm mono plug connecting to 3.5mm  coaxial digital output of FiiO X5 DAP (serving as transport) and RCA coaxial end through coaxial cable  connecting to RCA coaxial digital input of Micro iDSD BL (serving as DAC)?



The SP-DIF standard can encode any number of channels from mono to 5.1 surround. It only requires a single wire to transmit.


----------



## hemipowered007

X3i plus ifi no plus ex1000=heaven, oh and the beautiful interconnect peterek made for me


----------



## Suopermanni (Aug 2, 2017)

Hello Head-Fi! I'm about to ask a strange question about using the Ifi IDSD BL as a SPDIF converter for my Gungnir Multibit.

I know you can use it as a SPDIF converter to the Gungnir but can you do the following?

USB In -> SPDIF Out -> Gungnir COAX IN -> 3.5mm In Ifi -> 6.3mm out.

Basically, can I use the BL as a SPDIF converter and an amp at the same time?

EDIT: Hey Ifi! What on earth happened to your website?!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Suopermanni said:


> Hello Head-Fi! I'm about to ask a strange question about using the Ifi IDSD BL as a SPDIF converter for my Gungnir Multibit.
> 
> I know you can use it as a SPDIF converter to the Gungnir but can you do the following?
> 
> ...



The site seems to be working fine from here 

I can't test the SPIF on iDSD because I don't have anything with that connection, but if I am not mistaken, iFi creates other tools that can provide that service, iDSD BL is a DAC/AMP rather than a digital converter. I'd still recommend you to give iDSD a listen, who knows, you might find out that you like it even more than you like your Gungnir at the moment


----------



## mitchmalibu

Hi, any reason why the latest firmware listed on the ifi site is version 5.0 (august 2015) ? Is there a problem with the latest one previously released (I'm on 5.2) ? Thanks


----------



## Suopermanni

Ahh! Ifi is making up the new site! So that's why it's different than it was!


----------



## Vartan

Hi guys
Does solution 2 really work?


 

thanks


----------



## Dobrescu George

Vartan said:


> Hi guys
> Does solution 2 really work?
> 
> 
> thanks



I have not tried this solution, but I am curious to. It might consume a bit more battery, but I still want to try this since thius would probably solve things for some users


----------



## cheungtsw

Suopermanni said:


> Hello Head-Fi! I'm about to ask a strange question about using the Ifi IDSD BL as a SPDIF converter for my Gungnir Multibit.
> 
> I know you can use it as a SPDIF converter to the Gungnir but can you do the following?
> 
> ...



I know iOne can but not sure about BL.


----------



## cheungtsw

Suopermanni said:


> Ahh! Ifi is making up the new site! So that's why it's different than it was!



I suspect it was hacked.  Seems when u viewed the site, it was on an older version of the site.
Have you ever seem a website is taken down for over 1 week for update?
Sorry, not seem this before.


----------



## illram

Just got the iFi micro iDSD BL. Still haven't had time to really play with it but I must say, accessory wise, this is probably the most well accompanied piece of audio equipment I have ever bought. It basically comes with every connector, adapter, or cable you could possibly need. I mean who else includes a USB 2.0 B female to USB A male adapter for instance?? And I actually needed one of those! Awesome.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

illram said:


> Just got the iFi micro iDSD BL. Still haven't had time to really play with it but I must say, accessory wise, this is probably the most well accompanied piece of audio equipment I have ever bought. It basically comes with every connector, adapter, or cable you could possibly need. I mean who else includes a USB 2.0 B female to USB A male adapter for instance?? And I actually needed one of those! Awesome.


This has been the case since the original iDSD. Also a great product indeed


----------



## florence (Aug 15, 2017)

solution found. -deleted post-


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## 24thchromosome (Aug 20, 2017)

Have any of you tried connecting this way:
Android phone (running UAPP) with USB Type C > custom cable with USB Type C and male type B > iPurifier2 (type A) > Black label > headphones

Challenge is finding such a custom cable...


----------



## 24thchromosome

BTW how to check if your iFi Black Label has the latest firmware?


----------



## technobear

24thchromosome said:


> BTW how to check if your iFi Black Label has the latest firmware?



Plug in and switch on the iDSD and then run this program:

"C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe"

This is the firmware updater and will tell you the current version.


----------



## Vartan

Hi guys
I have two type iPad chargers. One is output 5.1V 2.1A and other one is 5.2V 2.4A.
Which one doesn't damage the battery?


----------



## djansia (Aug 21, 2017)

Hi everyone,
I own a sixth generation Ipod Touch and use it with the Apple CCK attached to my Ifi Micro iDSD (Black Label), to play the music I use the HibyMusic application.
Music is well reproduced but I think I have some problems with Iso SACD and DSD files. If I play a 24/192 flac, DAC's light turns yellow signaling the right sampling rate but if I play SACD or DSD files, DAC's light turns green (frequencies from 44 to 96 KHz). DAC's light should become from yellow to magenta with Iso SACD or DSD files, but instead it remains green. In the application options there is the possibility to "forcing" the sampling rate (advanced - SRC) but is the software to oversample the music or am I wrong? In conclusion, why DAC's light do not indicate the right sampling rate with Iso SACD or DSD while indicate to the right sampling with other flac files (up to 24/192)?
Do you have any suggestions to give me?
Thank you all and greetings, Andrea.

Ps: I tried to see how the Onkyo application works with DSD files (it does not play Iso SACD, unfortunately) and it seems works well, recognizes the files and their sampling rate. Unfortunately, however, when it changes between tracks, a terrible "scratch" is also played ... really terrible and at a high volume and I'm afraid it may even demages the headphones.


----------



## 24thchromosome

technobear said:


> Plug in and switch on the iDSD and then run this program:
> 
> "C:\Program Files\iFi\USB_HD_Audio_Driver\iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe"
> 
> This is the firmware updater and will tell you the current version.




Thank you so much Chris! It helped.


----------



## bodopopa

Any opinions on how an idsd black would sound next to a fiio x5 mkII with beyers dt 880 250Ohm? Also as a dac for a home system ( q acoustics concept 20 with exposure amp) thanks


----------



## HungryPanda

It work very well I use with fiio X5III and pc, It drives all my headphones


----------



## djansia

24thchromosome said:


> Thank you so much Chris! It helped.


Thanks for your email but my device is already update with the latest firmware.

Does anyone have any problems with the Micro iDSD and the Onkyo HF Player while playing DSD files? I heard this "click" only during the passage between the playing and the next song. If I skipp between tracks with the application buttons I do not hear any clicks.


----------



## phthora

I just realized that the bag that comes with the Black Label has an opening on the bottom so that you can plug in the USB and use the thing without removing it from the bag. Pretty smart design there. What a thoughtful feature, iFi!


----------



## cardeli22

phthora said:


> I just realized that the bag that comes with the Black Label has an opening on the bottom so that you can plug in the USB and use the thing without removing it from the bag. Pretty smart design there. What a thoughtful feature, iFi!


Yeah, pretty cool. Hawaiibadboy mentioned that in his Youtube video.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

The iDSD is the only portable DAC/amp I know of that can drive practically anything you throw at it, including "monster" cans like the HE6. From what I remember the Fiio x5 isn't too weak but wasn't particularly strong either. I have never tried the DT880 with the iDSD or the Fiio so I can't tell you how exactly they will fare in this comparison, but the iDSD is more neutral and extends farther in both ends than the Fiio, which might be a result of it having a much better integrated amp. 




bodopopa said:


> Any opinions on how an idsd black would sound next to a fiio x5 mkII with beyers dt 880 250Ohm? Also as a dac for a home system ( q acoustics concept 20 with exposure amp) thanks


----------



## MLGrado

Hello all. 

Thread Starter here!  Sorry I don't check in very often if at all.  Being a 'thread starter' especially early on brought LOTS of attention.  

Most of it was just fine, good stuff, lots of tech questions.  Back in those days (this is NOT a commentary on these days.  I just don't pester those guys as much, and for that I am sure they feel very relieved.  I was hounding Vince at that time so much he just passed me directly off to Thorsten Loesch himself, whom I pestered even MORE in many a private conversation that to this day I am STILL dumbfounded he took that kind of time to answer what were incredibly ignorant questions.  TL is an AMAZING dude, and deserves WAY more attention and credit for his unique audio genius and creativity) ANYWAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY....... where was I... BACK IN THOSE DAYS.....

I was getting lots of private messages.  Most of them good, and I was actually able to share some really good insider tech info, probably to the chagrin of the crew at iFi.  I actually backed way off, as my personal penance for revealing a bit too much, but in all truth and honesty there was WAY, WAY more stuff I learned about how these DAC's work(ed) that I shared with nary a soul, so my penance was probably out of balance with my sins 

Back to those *private HEAD-FI messages*. (NOT my private conversations with iFi)  And what kind of started pulling me out of the thread, and answering less and less questions.  The few bad seeds that screw it up for all of us.  You may be surprised, or probably not surprised to know there are some rotten apples out there that must have a compulsion to spread their rotten disease.  Getting told by anonymous posters that 'between your ears is full of $hit' and stuff like that really kind of starts to take the joy out of this thing.  

Three years later, I can fully admit that there was much left to learn when i penned that review, and while I stand by it on the whole, its pretty darn likely that I now have a much, much greater understanding of what's going on technically here.  And even though I am still just a very, very zealous enthusiast who thirsts for as much knowledge about these tech things like all of us,  I am pretty sure these days my head has been cleared of quite a bit of '$hit' and I feel much more confident in answering any questions.  


I had the privilege of being on the iFi iDSD Micro Black Label Review Tour.  Because I had already penned the initial iDSD Micro review over in 'Head Gear' I was unable to fulfil to the letter the requirements of the review tour, so I added an addendum to my old review for the BLACK LABEL.  I then realized I never shared the addendum here, so, here you go, for what it is worth.  Hopefully these days my $hit don't STANK.     


*I am back to review the iFi iDSD Micro Black Label Edition.  I was part of the tour group that was so lucky to receive a one week audition of the Black Label, simply abbreviated BL from here on.  Unfortunately, I cannot create a new review entry.  I am only allowed by the Head-Fi system to edit my existing review.  So here is an addendum with my impressions of the BL Edition.  *


*Based on my observation of the posts here on Head-fi, it seems many people see the iDSD Micro as a 'jack of all trades' at its price; that is, a device that squeezes in so many features at the expense of some quality.  As if without all the many features and functions, more 'quality' could have been squeezed in.  Maybe.  It seems a logical assumption.   But iFi is very resourceful.  With their own software team and one extremely clever engineer at the helm, whose designs have long held considerable acclaim in the traditional audiophile world and the DIY audio community, they can get a LOT done for not a lot of money.  

Features were not added in compromise of audio quality.  Actually, when iFi went to the 'crowd design' concept with the iDSD Micro, there was already a prototype design (ready for production), which was of course scratched for the actual final crowd-designed product.   But in the end, perhaps the largest difference between the prototype and the final iDSD Micro was the increase in audio quality the higher price point afforded.  It wasn't just about the bells and whistles.  *

*Yet, here we are more than two years later, and iFi has managed to squeeze even more audio quality out of the iDSD Micro with just a slight price increase.   And I say 'BRAVO'.  *


*The increase in audio quality relative to price increase is impressive.  For not a lot more, you get the same fully featured product that NOW has just enough of a refined sound to truly go head to head with the dedicated desktop DAC's in what I consider the next major price bracket of $1000.  Not to mention how it stands up against other portables and head-amp/DAC combos.  *

*So if the original iDSD is a 5 star product, and it still is, what is the BL?  5.5?  Yeah, something like that, if we could do such a thing.  *


*So how does the BL differ from the original?  I would say in overall refinement.  Less grain.  A more airy, extended top end.  Oh, and the KILLER mid-range that just kept me coming back for more and more.  It is pretty amazing, actually.  I in many ways prefered the BL in my main head-fi system, in place of my Wyred4Sound DAC-1 LE Femto clock edition DAC, which is double the price!  Was the BL better?  No, it wasn't better.  But it was competitive, and did exceed in a few areas, like the aforementioned mid-range.  The mids take on a smooth, silky and full tube like presence, that never lacks for micro-dynamics or detail.  And I personally just love that kind of sound.  But don't stop reading if you don't.  For it gets balanced out by a more forward and lively presence region, and more treble 'air' as audiophiles like to say.  Bass?  Bass is well delineated, strong and full.  No complaints.  *

*Another area where I feel the BL, and the original as well, exceeds the W4S DAC is with DSD material.  Well duh, one might say, since DSD is right there in the model name, so one can only assume that DSD is done extremely well.  And it is of course.  I must confess that I was at one time a DSD 'zealot'.   Not so much anymore.  I am more format agnostic these days.  Other factors are important, or even more important than the delivery format.  But, whatever that format is, I want my DAC to convert it in the best way possible.  *

*The iDSD uses a FIR filter in the analog domain to convert the DSD signal.   The 1-bit DSD signal needs to be stripped of its square-wave high-frequency ultrasonic content to exit the DAC in a listenable format.  And that is really all it needs.  And that is all the iDSD does.  Relatively simple process, and it uses a moving-average filter that is just 8 bits long.  (8 bits in the time domain).  Which means as the sample rate increases, the time distortion of the filter lessens!  By the time you get up to DSD512, there is truly excellent time domain performance here, which is one of the oft stated advantages of 'native' DSD over PCM.  *

*My W4S DAC uses the ESS chipset, whose highly knowledgeable and respected designers took a different approach.  They don't really tell us a lot about what they do to DSD, other than showing some response graphs that seem to show it isn't decimated all the way down to what we consider 'normal' PCM sample rates. (DXD and lower) We also know that the high frequency content of DSD is removed in the DIGITAL domain via AT LEAST an IIR filter, as opposed to analog ala iDSD and its Burr-Brown chip.  But in order for DSD to be filtered digitally, it has to be turned into a digital multi-bit format.  Absolutely has to be.  It has to be digital multi-bit for the volume control, and the ASRC too.  This is TYPICALLY accomplished within the architecture of a filter.  The result might be called 'DSD-wide', or 'PCM-narrow'.  Some would pass it off as true multi-bit delta-sigma, (especially those that sell ESS based DAC's with DSD as a major selling point) but I would disagree with that.  That would require a modulator.  Then again, the difference between multi-bit Delta Sigma and "Noise-Shaped low-bit-depth high-sample-rate PCM" might be semantics.  ANYWAY.  The point being, the ESS chipset requires more DSP and manipulation of the original DSD signal.  DSD is subjected to the filtering, then possibly volume control, sample rate conversion, and THEN is re-modulated into another Delta-Sigma format (the ESS Hyperstream converter) before being filtered again at the final output stage for conversion to analog.  It just seems to the layman like me more complex and involved (unnecessary?) than filtering to analog with an FIR filter realized in the analog domain.  *

*And to my ears, this comes to fruition.  DSD sounds more natural via the iDSD, and what I consider its characteristic sound is distinguishable from PCM.  Via the W4S, though, DSD sounds, well, more processed. And very little different than PCM.  *

*If you are a DSD lover, or if you have lots of DSD files such as myself, then you really are going to want the iDSD Nano, iDSD Micro, iDSD Micro BL, or something like it.  Say, the upcoming iDSD Pro?     Can't wait to hear THAT one!  *


*In conclusion, I am VERY thankful for the chance to review the Black Label.  iFi is quite the company.  They are customer oriented, forward thinking, and create excellent products.  In all this they distinguish themselves from the rest of the very competitive industry.  *


----------



## guerph

Adorama has it on sale for $378. Just bought one. Impulse buy. 
https://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html


----------



## Raccoonwrangler

guerph said:


> Adorama has it on sale for $378. Just bought one. Impulse buy.
> https://www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html


How did you get it at that price? The link says $549


----------



## guerph (Aug 28, 2017)

Raccoonwrangler said:


> How did you get it at that price? The link says $549



Try this. Just worked for me 
https://slickdeals.net/f/10293720-i...dac-and-headphone-amplifier-380-free-shipping


----------



## harpo1

guerph said:


> Try this. Just worked for me
> https://slickdeals.net/f/10293720-i...dac-and-headphone-amplifier-380-free-shipping


You can't use a referral link to another site.  Here's a good link the Head-Fi allows.
www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html?sdtid=10293720&emailprice=t


----------



## guerph

harpo1 said:


> You can't use a referral link to another site.  Here's a good link the Head-Fi allows.
> www.adorama.com/ifmicridsdbl.html?sdtid=10293720&emailprice=t



I didn't realize that. Thanks.


----------



## Raccoonwrangler

guerph said:


> I didn't realize that. Thanks.


Thank You both! I just bought one. I have owned the original IDSD Micro for several years now. Love it. I am going to pair this black edition with my Samsung Galaxy Book for a truly portable rig. I had been using a IDAC2 with a Gemini Cable and a IUSB3.0 that I robed from my Oculus gaming computer, not real portable rig. Is there a significant difference in sound from the original IDSD Micro to the new Black edition? What do you all think of the new IFI IGalvonic3.0?


----------



## MLGrado (Aug 30, 2017)

Me again.


I would like to quickly point out that, since my study is on-going, my layman ways of understanding and absorbing these things is also ongoing.

As far as DSD or 1 bit audio, the little iFi iDSD Micro Black Label addendum I penned as it pertains to multi-bit DSD and conversion via ESS chipsets and DAC's ----if written today would probably be worded a bit differently, and be a little clearer this time around.  But, the end result/opinion is the same. _ ESS and others...Too much DSP, too much filtering, too many conversions and reconversions on a format that only needs ONE low pass filter at the output stage._ 


As far as ESS is concerned, what they REALLY do with DSD, no one but those guys know.  The 'for inside guys only' datasheet and info chart shares little more than squat.  But what we DO know from some golden nuggets* shared by some of their team, ESS feels that filtering DSD digitally, digital volume control, ASRC, and another trip down their Hyperstream Delta Sigma Converter and analog filter output stage leads to a better sounding DSD in the end vs the 'old' way subscribed to by Burr Brown and a few others.


NOW, the COOL thing is there is ONE chip maker whose patents are readily available for perusal that tells us what is going on in their '1-bit domain, non-decimation, no PCM intermediary' technology.  CIRRUS.  LINK BELOW..

https://www.google.com/patents/US6784816


LOTS of INTERESTING stuff.  I imagine ESS does MANY similar things.  Actually, when the Cirrus paper speaks of IIR filter implementation versus FIR, I thought of ESS immediately.


Again, I am just a layman here.  Musician is my trade.  But I CAN in those patent explanations follow a significant chunk of what is going on with their DSD processing.  One of their methods actually reminds me of Sony's DSD-Wide, which takes the 1-bit DSD stream, FIR filter's the 1 bit stream, (I forget how many delays and taps) and noise shapes down the resultant multibit samples to an 8-bit 2.8 mhz bitstream.  Of course, the impulse/time response itself may be no better (or maybe worse) than just decimating to 352khz DXD ala Pyramix.  HMMMMM.... but I digress...


LOTS of GREAT info in that google link about the modern state of DSD processing.  (seems quite a bit ahead of the old Sony 8 bit DSD-Wide that many a DSD lover listens to on a regular basis... ahem.. ahem... I digress, I digress yet again)


The bottom line, many of these chip/DAC makers feel that implementing a 'good enough' analog filter for a DSD bitstream is too difficult to do. The end result if done that way is just simply a conversion filter that ends up sending down too much ultrasonic noise that compromises the downstream equipment.  Or if you design that filter with aggressive cut and rolloff to compensate, you totally screw up the DSD advantage a different way.   Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


So these chipsets result to various DSP's, doing everything possible to avoid conversion to low sample rate PCM, surely for marketing reasons but surely also their shared belief that the time resolution of DSD should be maintained as much as possible therefore the filters should be better than regular PCM decimation filters.  And they believe that their noise removal via internal DSP, upsampling, filtering, re-modulation in multi-bit delta sigma, combined with their 'better' more easily implemented analog output stages makes for better DSD playback than those DAC's that simply ue ONE ANALOG FILTER at the converter output.....

ala iFi and their Burr Brown chip.



To ME, in spite of any inferiority that allows for more ultrasonic noise downstream, I just have to believe the simple approach of a short moving average FIR filter applied directly to the previously untouched 1-bit bitstream will sound better.

My own non-scientific anecdotal listening evidence says the same as well.

In spite of that right now I am listening to all my digital files, which includes a couple TERRABYTES of DSD, on a very very nice sounding ESS chipset DAC.  And yes, all that DSP processed DSD sounds very very very good.

BUT... I am holding out for the iFi iDSD Pro, which I expect to BLOW OUT OF THE PROVERBIAL WATER these DSP based DSD comers.  '

iFi, PLEASE say it is coming our way soon!  I am practically begging you to take my money in exchange for one 


back to happy listin'



*( one of those Golden Nuggets corrected my previous ideas about where the ESS volume control was in regard to DSD.  It, like PCM, is at the very beginning, right after the USB I2S.  Check out the linked paper about Cirrus DSD processing, which is what I am fairly convinced is how ESS does it that early in the signal chain.  With DSD being just a two number signal, 1 and -1, a constant scaling multiplier is applied)


----------



## EJ102 (Aug 31, 2017)

I received my new iDSD Black label on sale from Adorama Camera a couple of days ago, and really enjoy the sound and power. It looks like ifi has added the orange indicator to the volume knob now. A couple criticisms I have with my unit is the Polarity switch, and especially the power mode switch  which look like a couple of used erasers from the back of a pencil. they work fine, however the Power mode switch does wiggle a little bit. I apologize for the mediocre pictures.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

That's also a question I'd love to know the answer to. 


Raccoonwrangler said:


> Thank You both! I just bought one. I have owned the original IDSD Micro for several years now. Love it. I am going to pair this black edition with my Samsung Galaxy Book for a truly portable rig. I had been using a IDAC2 with a Gemini Cable and a IUSB3.0 that I robed from my Oculus gaming computer, not real portable rig. *Is there a significant difference in sound from the original IDSD Micro to the new Black edition?* What do you all think of the new IFI IGalvonic3.0?


----------



## TheoS53

Raccoonwrangler said:


> Thank You both! I just bought one. I have owned the original IDSD Micro for several years now. Love it. I am going to pair this black edition with my Samsung Galaxy Book for a truly portable rig. I had been using a IDAC2 with a Gemini Cable and a IUSB3.0 that I robed from my Oculus gaming computer, not real portable rig. Is there a significant difference in sound from the original IDSD Micro to the new Black edition? What do you all think of the new IFI IGalvonic3.0?





WilliamLeonhart said:


> That's also a question I'd love to know the answer to.



Noticeable, but not huge (as is often the case in this hobby). When volume matched, the BL just sounds a little more clearer and refined. If you can find the original iDSD at a significantly lower price than the BL, I'd say go for the original. But, if it's worth anything, I was able to try out the Hugo 2 at an audio meet about a week ago, and compared it to my BL....I honestly would not buy the Chord. Considering what it costs, it didn't sound like a major improvement to me. Granted, the meet up was at a Starbucks (hardly an ideal setting), and I didn't spend more than a few minutes with it. But the point is, for the money, the BL is indeed very, VERY good


----------



## Dobrescu George

TheoS53 said:


> Noticeable, but not huge (as is often the case in this hobby). When volume matched, the BL just sounds a little more clearer and refined. If you can find the original iDSD at a significantly lower price than the BL, I'd say go for the original. But, if it's worth anything, I was able to try out the Hugo 2 at an audio meet about a week ago, and compared it to my BL....I honestly would not buy the Chord. Considering what it costs, it didn't sound like a major improvement to me. Granted, the meet up was at a Starbucks (hardly an ideal setting), and I didn't spend more than a few minutes with it. But the point is, for the money, the BL is indeed very, VERY good



I keep saying this, iDSD BL is surely something I'd consider End-Game for many people. I heard that iCan can make things even better if added to iDSD BL, but my schedule has been too full in the recent days to get to hear one. Maybe soon...


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

TheoS53 said:


> Noticeable, but not huge (as is often the case in this hobby). When volume matched, the BL just sounds a little more clearer and refined. If you can find the original iDSD at a significantly lower price than the BL, I'd say go for the original. But, if it's worth anything, I was able to try out the Hugo 2 at an audio meet about a week ago, and compared it to my BL....I honestly would not buy the Chord. Considering what it costs, it didn't sound like a major improvement to me. Granted, the meet up was at a Starbucks (hardly an ideal setting), and I didn't spend more than a few minutes with it. But the point is, for the money, the BL is indeed very, VERY good


Thank you. Having owned both the iDsd micro and the Hugo I really don't understand why I should spend 4 times the money. I sold both of them, the Hugo because I couldn't justify the cost and all the hassle that come with it battery, but the iDSD because I was keen to explore more in the $500 price range. Should my wife allows it, I'd buy another iDsd for mobile uses


----------



## CD44hi

In reading a few pages back I noticed that some are having issues with playback cutting out from an Iphone to the iDSD, I was wondering if a solution for this issue has been found, since I am experiencing the same issue. It doesn't matter which app is sending the music out to the iDSD, i.e. Onkyo, Spotify, Amazon music, they sound cuts off about 1-2 mins of playing. The file keeps progressing on the iPhone, but no sound out of the iDSD. The unit plays fine from PC/Foobar
I have firmware 5.2B, confirmed, that in theory is optimized for phones as source. I also get the "too much draw" error at random when connecting the iphone/iDSD. Connection is via Apple camera adapter kit.
Cheers


----------



## TheoS53

CD44hi said:


> In reading a few pages back I noticed that some are having issues with playback cutting out from an Iphone to the iDSD, I was wondering if a solution for this issue has been found, since I am experiencing the same issue. It doesn't matter which app is sending the music out to the iDSD, i.e. Onkyo, Spotify, Amazon music, they sound cuts off about 1-2 mins of playing. The file keeps progressing on the iPhone, but no sound out of the iDSD. The unit plays fine from PC/Foobar
> I have firmware 5.2B, confirmed, that in theory is optimized for phones as source. I also get the "too much draw" error at random when connecting the iphone/iDSD. Connection is via Apple camera adapter kit.
> Cheers



Have you made sure to turn the iDSD on BEFORE connecting it to the phone?


----------



## CD44hi

TheoS53 said:


> Have you made sure to turn the iDSD on BEFORE connecting it to the phone?


yeah, indeed. Maybe the firmware update didn't take 100% or it corrupted..... I'll download 5.2B again and do a second install. Thanks.


----------



## dpwolfordMD

EJ102 said:


> I received my new iDSD Black label on sale from Adorama Camera a couple of days ago, and really enjoy the sound and power. It looks like ifi has added the orange indicator to the volume knob now. A couple criticisms I have with my unit is the Polarity switch, and especially the power mode switch  which look like a couple of used erasers from the back of a pencil. they work fine, however the Power mode switch does wiggle a little bit. I apologize for the mediocre pictures.



Wow love the orange indicator on the knob, great touch, wish mine had it! Oh well the subtle black indicator of the old volume knob is an understated stealthy look ....

my button covers have managed to fall off once or twice but this was usually during travel in my laptop bag, i just keep an eye on them and push them in every time just to ensure none are getting loose


----------



## Yethal

EJ102 said:


> I received my new iDSD Black label on sale from Adorama Camera a couple of days ago, and really enjoy the sound and power. It looks like ifi has added the orange indicator to the volume knob now. A couple criticisms I have with my unit is the Polarity switch, and especially the power mode switch  which look like a couple of used erasers from the back of a pencil. they work fine, however the Power mode switch does wiggle a little bit. I apologize for the mediocre pictures.


They fixed the volume knob indicator? Man, now I want to sell my iDSD and buy a new one just for that orange line.


----------



## CD44hi

So re-installed 5.2B, it still has the playback issue, however, I am starting to think that it may be correlating with movement. If I have the player/phone on my lap while listening on a recliner, I started to notice that if the player or phone moves a bit, the issue seems more prevalent. This is just a theory, and not 100% correlation  . I have a new camera CK cable coming to see if maybe that cable went flaky.


----------



## guerph (Sep 1, 2017)

Note the bold text in below press release. Now perhaps I'm reading between the lines...but "prototype" doesn't sound like there will be a path to MQA via software upgrade...


IFA 2017: MQA EXPANDS GLOBAL REACH ON SMARTPHONE, PORTABLE DEVICES & MUSIC SERVICES

London / Berlin, 31 August 2017 – Music technology company, MQA, announces a breadth of partnership news at the IFA consumer electronics show in Berlin. Developed for convenient delivery and unmatched audio quality, MQA technology will now be embedded in LG’s new V30 smartphone, the first globally available MQA-enabled handset. MQA music playback will also be available on the two latest portable devices from Sony’s iconic Walkman brand, the WM-ZX300 and WM-A40 models. Both portable players are capable of playing back downloaded MQA music.

Said MQA CEO, Mike Jbara, of the latest news, “Our announcements at IFA illustrate the global presence and diverse footprint of MQA. We’re inspired by the energy and enthusiasm of our partners to keep pushing the opportunities to access master quality audio.”

New MQA Streaming Partners

Korean-based hi-res streaming service, Groovers, has confirmed it is working on MQA mobile and desktop implementation for its platform, due to launch by the end of 2017. This follows recent news from b2b digital music solutions provider, 7digital, that it will be powering a forthcoming hi-res streaming service, HDmusicStream, using MQA technology to deliver studio quality audio.

Current live music download partner, nugs.net, offers thousands of on-demand concerts from artists including Metallica, Bruce Springsteen and Dead & Company. This autumn, the nugs.net HiFi tier will offer MQA streaming on iOS and desktop players.

MQA Music Availability Grows

Universal Music Group, the world-leader in music-based entertainment, is working closely with MQA to encode its vast library of recordings in MQA's technology.

Further reinforcing MQA’s mobile footprint expansion, Pioneer and Onkyo will be showcasing TIDAL Masters mobile streaming on their latest Digital Audio Players, the XDP-30R and DP-S1 models, at the IFA trade fair.

Sonic Studio’s Amarra Luxe 4.1 media player, enabling all the benefits of the MQA experience for local playback and streaming of high resolution music, is scheduled for release in September 2017.

On the download front, Japan-based music store, e-onkyo music, has announced the expansion of their MQA music offering, with the addition of Warner Music Group’s hi-res catalogue in MQA, which will be available for the first time in the region in the coming weeks.

Meanwhile, Onkyo Music store, which serves Germany, UK and the US, will also be offering MQA music, as it rolls out a redesigned store front throughout September. Existing download stores, including HIGHRESAUDIO, continue to add more MQA music as it becomes available.

Hi-Res Keynote Features MQA

MQA’s CEO, Mike Jbara, will take part in a keynote discussion at IFA, organised by the Digital Entertainment Group (DEG) and hosted by Sony Electronics, on Friday 1 September at 14:00 [Hall 20 101]. “The Future of Hi-Res Audio” panel will also feature Morvan Boury (VP, Global Business Development, Sony Music Entertainment), Michael Drexler (VP, Digital Strategy at Warner Music), and Bill Gagnon (UMG’s SVP Business Development) as fellow panelists.

*MQA will be supporting partner demonstrations at this year’s IFA, including new MQA hardware partner, iFi Audio, who will be showing their prototype micro iDSD Black Label DAC featuring MQA integration.*

-Ends-

MQA Press Contacts lisa@mqa.co.uk | sarah@mqa.co.uk

Press Site for MQA www.mqa.co.uk/press2


----------



## guerph

Expecting the iDSD BL to be delivered today...guess its going back to vendor. Will wait for MQA version.


----------



## CoffeeDog (Sep 1, 2017)

Regarding MQA, there may be hope yet.  iFi had posted in the Computer Audio website something a bit cryptic, but may allude to upgrade via software:  https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/27776-mqa-support/ 
The post is a bit over a year old so it may no longer have any relevance.  I haven't pursued anything related to MQA but having just ordered a new Black Label using that nice Adorama deal, adding to the iDSD silver that I already have, such an upgrade may get me to dip my toes in the MQA pool.

BTW, @guerph : thanks so much for the heads-up about the Adorama sale!  I've been lusting ever since I'd listened to the iFi demo unit some of us Head-Fi-ers were fortunate enough to evaluate when it was first released.


----------



## chungjun (Sep 1, 2017)

Hmm... my impression is that for MQA, the "hardware" itself needs to be able to "unpack" the source too. Otherwise, you can still use MQA source but up to certain level of unpacking (at software level) and not "complete"  MQA unpacking

It's still unclear I suppose if current BL is MQA-ready at "hardware" level. But if it's software level, perhaps doesn't really require a "new" product unveiling?


----------



## TheoS53

Did they not make a mistake there? Fro. What I've seen, IFI now has a Nano iDSD BL that is MQA capable... But i haven't seen anything about a new Micro iDSD BL


----------



## TjPhysicist

Hey guys, am having an issue with my idsd BL. There's a weird volume imbalance issue, and though I personally cannot hear it, i've seen people on this forum talk about it AND another person who has heard my idsd BL DOES hear it. You guys who had similar issues, what did you do? (i know the issue is usually only specific to when the volume knob is at a very low level, so you could just avoid doing that).


----------



## bms44974

TjPhysicist said:


> (i know the issue is usually only specific to when the volume knob is at a very low level, so you could just avoid doing that).


----------



## Yethal

TjPhysicist said:


> Hey guys, am having an issue with my idsd BL. There's a weird volume imbalance issue, and though I personally cannot hear it, i've seen people on this forum talk about it AND another person who has heard my idsd BL DOES hear it. You guys who had similar issues, what did you do? (i know the issue is usually only specific to when the volume knob is at a very low level, so you could just avoid doing that).


Happens on my unit too. I avoid the issue by listening to music loudly.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yethal said:


> Happens on my unit too. I avoid the issue by listening to music loudly.



Yep, this is normal. If the sound is too loud, I reduce the mode to eco, or engage iEMATCH.


----------



## dpwolfordMD

Dobrescu George said:


> Yep, this is normal. If the sound is too loud, I reduce the mode to eco, or engage iEMATCH.



Bingo I have done the same. Fortunately my current Sine headphones use the "normal" setting quite perfectly with the volume knob above the 9pm threshold


----------



## TjPhysicist

Dobrescu George said:


> Yep, this is normal. If the sound is too loud, I reduce the mode to eco, or engage iEMATCH.


i didn't hear it initially btw. BUt WOW that is NOT encouraging.


----------



## TjPhysicist

guerph said:


> Note the bold text in below press release. Now perhaps I'm reading between the lines...but "prototype" doesn't sound like there will be a path to MQA via software upgrade...
> 
> 
> IFA 2017: MQA EXPANDS GLOBAL REACH ON SMARTPHONE, PORTABLE DEVICES & MUSIC SERVICES
> ...





chungjun said:


> Hmm... my impression is that for MQA, the "hardware" itself needs to be able to "unpack" the source too. Otherwise, you can still use MQA source but up to certain level of unpacking (at software level) and not "complete"  MQA unpacking
> 
> It's still unclear I suppose if current BL is MQA-ready at "hardware" level. But if it's software level, perhaps doesn't really require a "new" product unveiling?



Honestly, the above quote (bold), SOUNDS a LOT like they're going to introduce a "new version" of idsd BL...which is a bit unfortunate AND kind of a slap in the face to customers who already bought the idsd BL as said product is not that old to begin with.


----------



## guerph

TjPhysicist said:


> Honestly, the above quote (bold), SOUNDS a LOT like they're going to introduce a "new version" of idsd BL...which is a bit unfortunate AND kind of a slap in the face to customers who already bought the idsd BL as said product is not that old to begin with.



They haven't said no to a software upgrade, but admit that it won't be easy, if even possible. I'm certainly considering returning my micro iDSD while the window is still open.


----------



## TjPhysicist (Sep 6, 2017)

guerph said:


> They haven't said no to a software upgrade, but admit that it won't be easy, if even possible. I'm certainly considering returning my micro iDSD while the window is still open.


The thing to do would be to allow idsd BL owners to return their unit (maybe charge some extra?) for an "upgraded unit". Even if it's a hardware that needs to be added it won't be THAT difficult. They prbly won't do that, though i've seen one or two times companies have done this, it seems REALLY rare.

Else at LEAST call the one with MQA like iDSD BL+ or something, make it more expensive...i mean that STILL sucks (like the time i bought an LGG6 and the G6+ came out like 1 week later), but at least it's not the SAME device.

iFI if you're seeing this: do the upgrade thing!


----------



## Yethal

I don't know whether any of you guys noticed this but if you open the iDSD you'll notice that the USB input is on a separate PCB. If adding MQA can only be done via hardware change it is possible that we'd only need to upgrade the USB receiver card and not the entire unit.


----------



## TjPhysicist

Yethal said:


> I don't know whether any of you guys noticed this but if you open the iDSD you'll notice that the USB input is on a separate PCB. If adding MQA can only be done via hardware change it is possible that we'd only need to upgrade the USB receiver card and not the entire unit.


yeap. which is why i thought an "upgrade program" would work very well.


----------



## Dobrescu George

TjPhysicist said:


> i didn't hear it initially btw. BUt WOW that is NOT encouraging.



Every single analogue potentiometer I had acted like this, it is normal, don't mind it. FiiO E12, FiiO E12A, iDSD BL, and even expensive desktop amps will do this if they are using an analogue potentiometer. 



TjPhysicist said:


> yeap. which is why i thought an "upgrade program" would work very well.



Oh well, I for one, couldn't care less for MQA, literally. Not a single band I really like will be there, but if there are improvements for normal REDBOOK, I'm all in


----------



## iFi audio

TjPhysicist said:


> Honestly, the above quote (bold), SOUNDS a LOT like they're going to introduce a "new version" of idsd BL...which is a bit unfortunate AND kind of a slap in the face to customers who already bought the idsd BL as said product is not that old to begin with.



We do our best to make our products as futureproof as possible, yet not always we're able to the extent which would satisfy every person out there. But we try!


----------



## TjPhysicist

iFi audio said:


> We do our best to make our products as futureproof as possible, yet not always we're able to the extent which would satisfy every person out there. But we try!


did you see my suggestion about upgrades...u should see if you can do that. .

return to factory for upgraded bl


----------



## iFi audio

TjPhysicist said:


> did you see my suggestion about upgrades...u should see if you can do that. .
> 
> return to factory for upgraded bl



All details regarding our products and MQA will be revealed once available, hence it's for the best to wait a little bit longer. But yes, we surely pay attention to what this community says


----------



## technobear

TjPhysicist said:


> i didn't hear it initially btw. BUt WOW that is NOT encouraging.



You're expecting too much from a miniature switched pot.


----------



## Yethal (Sep 13, 2017)

Available here

Question: Has anybody tried that cable?
If yes: Please post some pictures and tell me how it was.
If no: Is somebody from China (or from a place close enough so the shipping won't take years) willing to buy it for test?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yethal said:


> Available here
> 
> Question: Has anybody tried that cable?
> If yes: Please post some pictures and tell me how it was.
> If no: Is somebody from China (or from a place close enough so the shipping won't take years) willing to buy it for test?



What do you need it for? I mean, how would it be better than a typical OTG and what would the usage scenario be for this cable?


----------



## Yethal

Dobrescu George said:


> What do you need it for? I mean, how would it be better than a typical OTG and what would the usage scenario be for this cable?


It's angled so it protrudes less from the iDSD/phone combo than a regular cable. Aside from that, it would probably work just like a regular cable.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yethal said:


> It's angled so it protrudes less from the iDSD/phone combo than a regular cable. Aside from that, it would probably work just like a regular cable.



I have only OTG 3.0 nowadays, but one thing I do think you should consider about the cable above, or rather two things: 

- I'm not 100% positive if the angled part leaves enough distance for the cable to be inserted deep enough 

- Not sure of the USB female part would be stable after it is inserted, if the cable is not thick enough around it, it might damage the port on iDSD BL


----------



## Yethal

Dobrescu George said:


> I have only OTG 3.0 nowadays, but one thing I do think you should consider about the cable above, or rather two things:
> 
> - I'm not 100% positive if the angled part leaves enough distance for the cable to be inserted deep enough
> 
> - Not sure of the USB female part would be stable after it is inserted, if the cable is not thick enough around it, it might damage the port on iDSD BL


The cable is supposedly dedicated for iDSD use so I assume the distance is big enough for the cable to fit. Would have to actually buy the cable first to test that though.
This does lead me to a question. Why is the only angled cable for iDSD available on an obscure Chinese shopping site? Why is no one making such cables? I'm sure I'm not the only iDSD user who stacks it with his phone and I'm sure I'm not the only person annoyed by the standard OTG cable protruding far from the stack.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yethal said:


> The cable is supposedly dedicated for iDSD use so I assume the distance is big enough for the cable to fit. Would have to actually buy the cable first to test that though.
> This does lead me to a question. Why is the only angled cable for iDSD available on an obscure Chinese shopping site? Why is no one making such cables? I'm sure I'm not the only iDSD user who stacks it with his phone and I'm sure I'm not the only person annoyed by the standard OTG cable protruding far from the stack.



Probably because it is only for iDSD BL, it is not that large of a market to explore and make custom cables for, it might cost me far more to make one in Romania than it costs to make one in there, there having better access to better and less pricey materials 

sorry, I'm not close enough to order one and have it quickly, and I only have USB 3.0 now, so it is not that much of a help. To be honest, I don't really stack iDSD with a phone, but with DAPs.


----------



## rbalcom

Yethal said:


> The cable is supposedly dedicated for iDSD use so I assume the distance is big enough for the cable to fit. Would have to actually buy the cable first to test that though.
> This does lead me to a question. Why is the only angled cable for iDSD available on an obscure Chinese shopping site? Why is no one making such cables? I'm sure I'm not the only iDSD user who stacks it with his phone and I'm sure I'm not the only person annoyed by the standard OTG cable protruding far from the stack.



I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWOAUBM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Works very well and was easy to get off Amazon.


----------



## Yethal

Dobrescu George said:


> Probably because it is only for iDSD BL, it is not that large of a market to explore and make custom cables for, it might cost me far more to make one in Romania than it costs to make one in there, there having better access to better and less pricey materials
> 
> sorry, I'm not close enough to order one and have it quickly, and I only have USB 3.0 now, so it is not that much of a help. To be honest, I don't really stack iDSD with a phone, but with DAPs.


It can be made to order like the cables from Mimic Cables (highly recommend them btw) the problem is, nobody even tries to make them to order. It's as if nobody even thought about making an angled cable. Also, some of the smaller DAPs only output digital via USB so USB cable would fit both a phone and a DAP


rbalcom said:


> I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWOAUBM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> Works very well and was easy to get off Amazon.


Not exactly what I had in mind. I wanted the USB female plug to be angled too so the cable doesn't protrude at all.


----------



## rbalcom

Yethal said:


> Not exactly what I had in mind. I wanted the USB female plug to be angled too so the cable doesn't protrude at all.



Sorry. My mistake. I misunderstood.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

MQA is available through updates on *some* DACs. I hope that'll be the case with the iDSD BL and hopefully the original too

https://www.whathifi.com/advice/mqa-audio-what-it-how-can-you-get-it


----------



## mandrake50

For ~$50 and six weeks for delivery... I can't be a test subject. I use the one from Amazon to connect my S8.  It is OK. It is not like I can put the stack into my shirt pocket anyway.


----------



## iFi audio

Hi WilliamLeonhart

This is something that we are looking into with MQA and we will update when we have any news.

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## WriterHead

How many hours are you getting from your iPod touch / iPhone connected to your iDSD micro via apple lightning to usb camera cable?


----------



## cardeli22

WriterHead said:


> How many hours are you getting from your iPod touch / iPhone connected to your iDSD micro via apple lightning to usb camera cable?


I use the 30 pin to lightning adapter in conjunction with the old camera connection kit. They both look like two little blocks. As such I use them only during home use. At home the BL is used mostly on my desktop (2 thirds of the time) with the connection kit and the ipod or iphone the other third of the time in the  couch. I normally use mp3s or FLACs converted to ALACs with the iOS products.


----------



## Yethal

@iFi audio Would it be possible for you guys to start selling iDSD mobile cables? Preferably angled. It would be nice if the customers who buy the iDSD to use it with their mobile devices could also buy an appropriate interconnect from the same store.


----------



## Dobrescu George

WriterHead said:


> How many hours are you getting from your iPod touch / iPhone connected to your iDSD micro via apple lightning to usb camera cable?



With a typical DAP, if used as a transport, I get more than I usually listen in one sitting, haven't depleted it once...


----------



## cardeli22

WriterHead said:


> How many hours are you getting from your iPod touch / iPhone connected to your iDSD micro via apple lightning to usb camera cable?


Sorry, misunderstood your question initially.  I don't listen to the ipod or iphone setup with the BL more than an hour at a time so I couldn't tell you how long it would last. The ipod touch has a horribly small battery so it wouldn't be long at all. From what I gathered from  reviewers, you can get around 12 hours with IEMS and the BL. Bigger cans and higher impedance will probably half that.


----------



## Dobrescu George

cardeli22 said:


> Sorry, misunderstood your question initially.  I don't listen to the ipod or iphone setup with the BL more than an hour at a time so I couldn't tell you how long it would last. The ipod touch has a horribly small battery so it wouldn't be long at all. From what I gathered from  reviewers, you can get around 12 hours with IEMS and the BL. Bigger cans and higher impedance will probably half that.



I usually got more than 8 hours, even with things that are harder to drive actually, but I have never needed turbo mode yet...


----------



## WriterHead

My question was more about the ipod / iphone battery life using it as a transport than the iDSD's.


----------



## xLoud

Can anyone share thoughts on ifi idsd vs Schiit Jotunheim?


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> @iFi audio Would it be possible for you guys to start selling iDSD mobile cables? Preferably angled. It would be nice if the customers who buy the iDSD to use it with their mobile devices could also buy an appropriate interconnect from the same store.



Dear Yethal

Unfortunately, we cannot sell cable as it is genuine Apple and also not for us.

You need to purchase from Apple or otg.

I hope that this answers your query.

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## Yethal

iFi audio said:


> Dear Yethal
> 
> Unfortunately, we cannot sell cable as it is genuine Apple and also not for us.
> 
> ...


Hi iFi
I meant Android cables. Those can be manufactured by anyone.


----------



## iFi audio

Hi guys

Hope you all all enjoying your music.

Just thought we'd make a quick comment re the cables we provide. 

While we manufacture and/or have cables manufactured to our specifications, generally we are not in a position to provide custom cables, custom length cables etc as much as we would like to. This would mean bumping up the cost of our gear and we don't want to do that. 

As always, we love your feedback on cables, as we do with everything, but generally, what comes in the box is what comes with the product and it is unlikely to change during the product's lifetime. We look long and hard at what we provide and, in most cases, these do the job. 

However, if you have specific needs and ours aren't suitable, many commercial cables are available in different lengths and with different connector options.  For more unusual needs there are specialist cable makers that offer suitable solutions.

Please feel free to drop us a line through our support ticket system at http://support.ifi-audio.com/ and we can give you advice on what you should get if you fall into the above category. The guys on support are more than happy to help. 

Thanks

The iFi audio Team.


----------



## harpo1

Anyone having dropout issues with the iDSD and Tidal?  I have the creator edition of windows 10.  I had the 2.26 version of the driver and it had dropouts so I upgraded to the 2.30 version but I'm still getting dropouts.


----------



## Yethal

harpo1 said:


> Anyone having dropout issues with the iDSD and Tidal?  I have the creator edition of windows 10.  I had the 2.26 version of the driver and it had dropouts so I upgraded to the 2.30 version but I'm still getting dropouts.


Had no issues whatsoever. This might be caused by usb power and not by the idsd itself. Does this occur when idsd is running off of its internal battery?


----------



## harpo1

Yethal said:


> Had no issues whatsoever. This might be caused by usb power and not by the idsd itself. Does this occur when idsd is running off of its internal battery?


You might be right.  It only happens on one of my computers.  When I get a chance I'll run it off it's internal battery to see if the usb power is the problem.  Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## mandrake50

It could possibly be a bandwidth  (or lack of it) problem too. Any difference in the way the problem computer is connected to your network versus the others without the problem. Anyway, if it only happens with one computer and not when using others, it most likely is not a problem with the BL itself. This is a good thing.


----------



## syedhuz

I want to connect IFI micro IDSD with TV satellite box with out put to Swans M10 2.1 , pls guide how to


----------



## technobear

syedhuz said:


> I want to connect IFI micro IDSD with TV satellite box with out put to Swans M10 2.1 , pls guide how to


Does your TV Satellite box have an optical or coaxial digital output? If so, all you need is a cable.


----------



## iFi audio

Girls and guys, just a short announcement:

*We will be at RMAF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

 

On our several stations we'll have lots of currently available iFi audio stuff with us, namely Pro iESL and Pro iCAN, iCAN SE, iTube2, iDAC2 micro iDSD BL and a bunch our accessories too!

But there we will also show *nano iDSD Black Label !!! *

Be sure to visit us at the atrium - CanJam 24!


----------



## Dobrescu George

iFi audio said:


> Girls and guys, just a short announcement:
> 
> *We will be at RMAF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> ...



Super cool! Hope everyone has tons of fun with iFi products in there!


----------



## XSAMURAI

iFi audio said:


> Girls and guys, just a short announcement:
> 
> *We will be at RMAF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> ...



how about pro idsd then ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

XSAMURAI said:


> how about pro idsd then ?



Is there a pro iDSD coming along? That is something I really want to hear sometime in the future!


----------



## Yethal

Dobrescu George said:


> Is there a pro iDSD coming along? That is something I really want to hear sometime in the future!






They had a prototype at last year's Audio Video Show in Warsaw alongside the then prototype ESL and MrSpeakers electrostats


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yethal said:


> They had a prototype at last year's Audio Video Show in Warsaw alongside the then prototype ESL and MrSpeakers electrostats



WOAH 

I was not there, being from Romania and all, so I had no idea. 

I really want to hear that one...


----------



## Yethal

Dobrescu George said:


> WOAH
> 
> I was not there, being from Romania and all, so I had no idea.
> 
> I really want to hear that one...


We're going to have another show in a month. Come over to hear this bad boy.


----------



## iFi audio

In the meantime...

 

Yup, that's our nano iDSD Black Label + iMore IEMs + Tidal streaming (via iPhone) combo.


----------



## HeadStrong

The micro iDSD Black Label is on sale at Adorama (SlickDeal) for $378.


----------



## cardeli22

HeadStrong said:


> The micro iDSD Black Label is on sale at Adorama (SlickDeal) for $378.


Nice! It goes on sale every couple of months. I got mine from another place for 470$. Still a good deal and really enjoy the dac/amp.


----------



## mandrake50

It was just such a post a month or so ago that got me to purchase my BL. I sure am glad that I saw it. I have been using it with My Aeon closed phones at my desk for everything from music to videos to movies. Out of all of the audio gear that I have, and it is way too much, that combination is the most used since I picked up the BL. I had a credit with Adorama, so for $350 or so shipped, this is probably the best audio deal that I have gotten in many years.


----------



## iFi audio

mandrake50 said:


> It was just such a post a month or so ago that got me to purchase my BL. I sure am glad that I saw it. I have been using it with My Aeon closed phones at my desk for everything from music to videos to movies. Out of all of the audio gear that I have, and it is way too much, that combination is the most used since I picked up the BL. I had a credit with Adorama, so for $350 or so shipped, this is probably the best audio deal that I have gotten in many years.





Thank you!


----------



## iFi audio (Oct 13, 2017)

Yethal said:


> They fixed the volume knob indicator? Man, now I want to sell my iDSD and buy a new one just for that orange line.



A customer can ask us to send him a new knob and this should be done via our Support Ticket System to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com

...or in your case, please come visit our booth at upcoming Audio Video Show (Poland, Warsaw 17th - 19th of November 2017, PGE Narodowy Stadium) and one knob will be waiting for you there 

Cheers!


----------



## Yethal

iFi audio said:


> A customer can ask us to send him a new knob and this should be done via our Support Ticket System to be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com
> 
> ...or in your case, please come visit our booth at upcoming Audio Video Show (Poland, Warsaw 17th - 19th of November 2017, PGE Narodowy Stadium) and one knob will be waiting for you there
> 
> Cheers!


I love you so much.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> I love you so much.



Yeah, we know and we love you right back! And since we've already tackled the event subject...

*Polish Audio Video Show*
*...and we'll be there !!!*


 

This event is *the second biggest in Europe* and this year's edition is the 20th anniversary. It starts soon ad we'll be there!

Where? 

*Poland, Warsaw*
When?

*17th - 19th of November 2017*
Where exactly?

*PGE Narodowy Stadium, the headphones hall*
What?

*Several listening stations, several iFi staff members, fine headphones too and... LOTS of iFi gear*
How?

*Just like that  But seriously, we like the Polish event, the atmosphere in there is out of this world*

If you're around, please make sure to visit us!

Cheers,
iFi Team


----------



## sumeet3011

There is an ever increasing interest in hifi head gear in India but so less options to buy one.. Hope Ifi audio do start their sales here.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sumeet3011 said:


> There is an ever increasing interest in hifi head gear in India but so less options to buy one.. Hope Ifi audio do start their sales here.



I'd be glad for more of the world to have the ability to hear and purchase the amazingly priced and well-performing iFi items. 

Even so, I should say that iFi doesn't control the Indian market and cannot sell it by themselves, the market request should be present to a company that would become official importer there, thing which is extremely local...


----------



## TheoS53

Been playing around with the Hugo 2 and comparing my iDSD BL to it and the Mojo....I must admit that the iFi still impresses me. Volume matched, the Hugo 2 does sound a bit more refined and perhaps natural...but it's really...reeeeaaaally close. Let's keep in mind, though, that the Hugo 2 also costs more than 3 times what the iDSD costs. iFi did such a fantastic job with this device.


----------



## Dobrescu George

TheoS53 said:


> Been playing around with the Hugo 2 and comparing my iDSD BL to it and the Mojo....I must admit that the iFi still impresses me. Volume matched, the Hugo 2 does sound a bit more refined and perhaps natural...but it's really...reeeeaaaally close. Let's keep in mind, though, that the Hugo 2 also costs more than 3 times what the iDSD costs. iFi did such a fantastic job with this device.



Ahahaha 

That moment when you realise the true might of iDSd BL!


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> Been playing around with the Hugo 2 and comparing my iDSD BL to it and the Mojo....I must admit that the iFi still impresses me. Volume matched, the Hugo 2 does sound a bit more refined and perhaps natural...but it's really...reeeeaaaally close. Let's keep in mind, though, that the Hugo 2 also costs more than 3 times what the iDSD costs. iFi did such a fantastic job with this device.



Thanks for this fabulous feedback. We won't lie, we are very proud of iDSD BL.


----------



## HungryPanda

I for one am glad you made them, power  everything I have. High five to iFi audio


----------



## TheoS53

iFi audio said:


> Thanks for this fabulous feedback. We won't lie, we are very proud of iDSD BL.



To be honest, my only real negative comments about the iDSD BL is that I wish it had a more compact, elegant, modern design. But other than that, it's a portable unit I hope will serve me well for many years to come.


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> To be honest, my only real negative comments about the iDSD BL is that I wish it had a more compact, elegant, modern design. But other than that, it's a portable unit I hope will serve me well for many years to come.



For now it is what it is, we like the design and it works as intended. But who knows what will happen in the future? Just thinking out loud, that's not an announcement of anything.


----------



## TheoS53

iFi audio said:


> For now it is what it is, we like the design and it works as intended. But who knows what will happen in the future? Just thinking out loud, that's not an announcement of anything.



Too late, that has been taken as an official and legally-binding statement


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> Too late, that has been taken as an official and legally-binding statement



Aw shucks. Now we're going to be bashed for splling 'em beans regarding iFi future, oh no. 

In any case, enjoy your BL!


----------



## Yethal

So, iFi. Will I be able to hear the iDSD Pro during AVS?


----------



## HeadStrong

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/CanJam_Denver_2017/CanJam_Denver_2017_c.htm

MQA reportedly coming as a firmware update!  Hopefully this will enable a full decode!


----------



## JDUBS

Where does it say its coming via firmware upgrade?  

-Jim


----------



## TheoS53

HeadStrong said:


> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/CanJam_Denver_2017/CanJam_Denver_2017_c.htm
> 
> MQA reportedly coming as a firmware update!  Hopefully this will enable a full decode!



No, it said that iFi is INVESTIGATING THE POSSIBILITY


----------



## mandrake50

The wording of that piece has been changed. When I read it yesterday it said the MQA firmware would be available ...and listed the models. Now it says "could join" and lists the other models.. which makes no sense.
Anyway, we will see. It is not a big deal to me one way or another. I have nothing to encode MQA and don't use any streaming services.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

I spoke to a iFi Rep at RMAF and she said they are working on the MQA and she couldn't guarantee they will be able to do it , but thought looks like all of their products would be able to play MQA except a very old legacy product. I appreciate her non commitment to a time or yes it will happen. 

I loved that I got my new volume knob with the orange line and I lost my IEm sensitivity knob and they gave me the one of the demo unit. I said Victoria this is why I love iFi  products. 

My read between the lines is MQA will happen and I am just taking a wild guess by first quarter next year. 

I am excited to see and hear the new pro DAC and stack with the matching amp. I suspect that by end of this year that the Pro DAC will be released .


----------



## FunctionalDoc

mandrake50 said:


> The wording of that piece has been changed. When I read it yesterday it said the MQA firmware would be available ...and listed the models. Now it says "could join" and lists the other models.. which makes no sense.
> Anyway, we will see. It is not a big deal to me one way or another. I have nothing to encode MQA and don't use any streaming services.



Tidal has MQA streaming at the masters level. 
https://www.whathifi.com/tidalmasters/review


----------



## HeadStrong

Yes, the wording was changed after I first read the article.  Here’s his reply to my inquiry on the CanJam thread...

Yours is the first report that I’ve seen regarding a firmware MQA update for the iFi DACs - I don’t even see any mention of it on the iFi website. Previously I thought only the nano black label and probably the Pro would do MQA. Do you know if the firmware enables a full decode or is a software unfold required?

I believe it does the full decode. They were playing tidal at their booth and it was set "Hif"i when I got there, and after talking with them I switched it over to MQA with passthrough... I believe that means the hardware is doing all the work. It did sound very nice with the Masters tracks I listened to once I switched it over. Apparently it is working with most of their devices now, but I guess they are still tweaking it before release because there was still a problem with one of the devices. (It might have been the Nano, but I'm not sure... I do know that they have it working with the micro iDAC2 and the micro iDSD Black Label for sure).


----------



## mandrake50

I am sure that they do... but as I said, I do NOT subscribe to any music streaming services. With close to 5 TB of music, I don't need the additional expense.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mandrake50 said:


> I am sure that they do... but as I said, I do NOT subscribe to any music streaming services. With close to 5 TB of music, I don't need the additional expense.



That moment when I actually want people to get MQA to be happy but I personally don't have any streaming services either, and I won't get into another new format thingy, Redbook flac is enough to get a lot of enjoyment.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> So, iFi. Will I be able to hear the iDSD Pro during AVS?



Sadly, no.


----------



## iFi audio

FunctionalDoc said:


> I spoke to a iFi Rep at RMAF and she said they are working on the MQA and she couldn't guarantee they will be able to do it , but thought looks like all of their products would be able to play MQA except a very old legacy product. I appreciate her non commitment to a time or yes it will happen.
> 
> I loved that I got my new volume knob with the orange line and I lost my IEm sensitivity knob and they gave me the one of the demo unit. I said Victoria this is why I love iFi  products.
> 
> ...



For now two things are as certain as death and taxes :

1. nano iDSD Black Label will support MQA.
2. As far as EVERY other product is involved (both stuff upcoming and already on the market), we are looking into MQA and having said that, when there's something to announce, rest assured that we will do it here.


----------



## chungjun

Oh well... I'm pretty excited about these to implement as part of the chain into iDSD(BL)...

Gemini3.0 (https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/gemini3-0/)
Mercury3.0 (https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/mercury3-0/)

Do they really make a difference? Who cares... they looked pretty darn good, they must sound good, no?


----------



## iFi audio

chungjun said:


> Oh well... I'm pretty excited about these to implement as part of the chain into iDSD(BL)...
> 
> Gemini3.0 (https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/gemini3-0/)
> Mercury3.0 (https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/mercury3-0/)
> ...



That's not for us to say, but in the thread below:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-gemini3-0-mercury3-0-the-new-dynamic-duo.863284/

...you'll probably find the answer to your question in near future


----------



## Jearly410 (Oct 20, 2017)

Just hooked up powered speakers + powered sub to the pre-amp of the black label and I'm blown away by how much control I have over the volume level as well as the xbass feature. Turning it on sends kick drums through my chest, without distorting the sound! The black label is seriously my best investment in this hobby.


----------



## iFi audio

Jearly410 said:


> Just hooked up powered speakers + powered sub to the pre-amp of the black label and I'm blown away by how much control I have over the volume level as well as the xbass feature. Turning it on sends kick drums through my chest, without distorting the sound! The black label is seriously my best investment in this hobby.



That's our baby right there. We're happy if you're happy!


----------



## RojasTKD

My iDSD Black Label arrived Thursday night. I love the gobs of power to drive any and all my headphone (several planars, dynamics and many IEMs). 

Sounds clean, dynamic and a bit more fun than NFB-11 desktop rig. It an amazing featured packed POWERFUL device in a transportable/portable package.

Was a little disappointed when while examining when it first arrived, I toggled the direct/preamplifier the little switch fell off. I put it back on and hope it stays, but it doesn't inspire confidence.


----------



## Dobrescu George

RojasTKD said:


> My iDSD Black Label arrived Thursday night. I love the gobs of power to drive any and all my headphone (several planars, dynamics and many IEMs).
> 
> Sounds clean, dynamic and a bit more fun than NFB-11 desktop rig. It an amazing featured packed POWERFUL device in a transportable/portable package.
> 
> Was a little disappointed when while examining when it first arrived, I toggled the direct/preamplifier the little switch fell off. I put it back on and hope it stays, but it doesn't inspire confidence.



That is actually normal, those switches are very simple placed there for easy exchange. 

I was a bit afraid of them as well, but the actual switch is very good, just the button is wobbly and can fall. 

My understanding is that ifi used this design to make them easily serviceable


----------



## frogmeat69

I lost the same button off the bottom of mine, luckily you can still move the little switch.


----------



## Yethal

I actually removed the iematch switch. Back when I stacked my phone with the iDSD it sometimes swittched on by itself. Very annoying but easily solvable.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> I actually removed the iematch switch. Back when I stacked my phone with the iDSD it sometimes swittched on by itself. Very annoying but easily solvable.



...and since it's removable, it's much easier fo us to do any repairs if needed.


----------



## Yethal

iFi audio said:


> ...and since it's removable, it's much easier fo us to do any repairs if needed.


It can still be used without the rubber thing it's just more difficult to switch by accident.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> It can still be used without the rubber thing it's just more difficult to switch by accident.



Yes, it can.


----------



## phthora

I discovered the perfect 6.3mm adapter to maintain Black Label stealth mode packed in with my Audeze SINE. I find this a very soothing improvement.


----------



## Dobrescu George

phthora said:


> I discovered the perfect 6.3mm adapter to maintain Black Label stealth mode packed in with my Audeze SINE. I find this a very soothing improvement.



Ooo, that looks really nice!! 

I'd love to get one to compliment the black design of iDSD BL!


----------



## YCHANGE

Just got my idsd black label.  I successfully hooked it up to my shanling m1.  I was puzzled at first because I couldn't get enough volume.  Soon realized I had to turn up the volume on the m1.  The m1 got extremely hot and drained battery fast.  Now I cant get any sound out of the digital input through the m1.  My mojo still works with the m1.  When I use the M1 with the Black label should it be set to direct or preamplifier?  Any suggestions for trying to regain sound through the M1?


----------



## Yethal

YCHANGE said:


> Just got my idsd black label.  I successfully hooked it up to my shanling m1.  I was puzzled at first because I couldn't get enough volume.  Soon realized I had to turn up the volume on the m1.  The m1 got extremely hot and drained battery fast.  Now I cant get any sound out of the digital input through the m1.  My mojo still works with the m1.  When I use the M1 with the Black label should it be set to direct or preamplifier?  Any suggestions for trying to regain sound through the M1?


I use the exact same setup. Connect them via USB and not via analog.


----------



## YCHANGE

Yethal said:


> I use the exact same setup. Connect them via USB and not via analog.



Thanks.  I did have it USB.  I was able to change the volume on the m1.  Is that normal?


----------



## Yethal

YCHANGE said:


> Thanks.  I did have it USB.  I was able to change the volume on the m1.  Is that normal?


Weird, I am not able to change volume using the M1 when iDSD is connected.


----------



## mandrake50

@Yethal
 Isn't that typical with DSD. Even in Foobar, when using DSD the equalizer nor digital volume works. I have seen this being discussed with other devices as well. Something about not being able to manipulate the bit stream in real time when using DSD. Anyway, this is not surprising, to me anyway.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yethal said:


> I use the exact same setup. Connect them via USB and not via analog.



What is that keyboard, and how does it feel to work on it?


----------



## Yethal

mandrake50 said:


> @Yethal
> Isn't that typical with DSD. Even in Foobar, when using DSD the equalizer nor digital volume works. I have seen this being discussed with other devices as well. Something about not being able to manipulate the bit stream in real time when using DSD. Anyway, this is not surprising, to me anyway.


Frankly I don't care. That glorious volume knob is there to be turned.



Dobrescu George said:


> What is that keyboard, and how does it feel to work on it?


It's Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid with typewriter keycaps installed. Pair them with any mechanical keyboard with clicky switches (such as Cherry MX Blue) and it feels just like typing on a real typewriter (in a good way).


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> Frankly I don't care. That glorious volume knob is there to be turned.



And rightfully so as this is the best way to do it. If an analog volume control is available (and in the  above case it is), digital attenuation should be bypassed.


----------



## YCHANGE (Oct 24, 2017)

I was using bluetooth for the m1 to another phone if that makes any difference.

Edit: Just used the digital input on my laptop and it works perfectly.  I think I have a bad third party cable.  It's a usb 3.0 A female to type-C.


----------



## RojasTKD

YCHANGE said:


> Thanks.  I did have it USB.  I was able to change the volume on the m1.  Is that normal?





Yethal said:


> Weird, I am not able to change volume using the M1 when iDSD is connected.



When I M1 connected the iDSD Black Lable I can also control the volume through the M1. BUT that is not the case with my M2s, volume from 1 - 100 have no effect and at volume zero there is no audio (zero volume).


----------



## YCHANGE

RojasTKD said:


> When I M1 connected the iDSD Black Lable I can also control the volume through the M1. BUT that is not the case with my M2s, volume from 1 - 100 have no effect and at volume zero there is no audio (zero volume).



I see.  Problem solved.  I was using usb power which was draining my M1.  Tried battery mode, which is suggested in the directions, and everything works fine.


----------



## RojasTKD

YCHANGE said:


> I see.  Problem solved.  I was using usb power which was draining my M1.  Tried battery mode, which is suggested in the directions, and everything works fine.


yeah from what I understand The M1 will get extended battery life as it bypasses the DAC and AMP sections when connected to an external DAC/AMP, at least that's whas reported from someone who used it with a in conjunction with a Chord Mojo.


----------



## Yethal

RojasTKD said:


> When I M1 connected the iDSD Black Lable I can also control the volume through the M1. BUT that is not the case with my M2s, volume from 1 - 100 have no effect and at volume zero there is no audio (zero volume).


If You're using M1 as bt receiver then You're using volume control of the source . try using M1 in Hibylink mode and see if it still allows for volume control.


----------



## Vartan

Keyboard and iFi mania


----------



## RojasTKD

Yethal said:


> If You're using M1 as bt receiver then You're using volume control of the source . try using M1 in Hibylink mode and see if it still allows for volume control.


I'm not using my M1 as a BT receiver. It is connected using it's USB-C out to the iDSD.

My Mpow BT receiver sound better than the M1 in BT receive mode.


----------



## Yethal

RojasTKD said:


> I'm not using my M1 as a BT receiver. It is connected using it's USB-C out to the iDSD.
> 
> My Mpow BT receiver sound better than the M1 in BT receive mode.


What firmware version are You on? I'm on 3.0 and I am unable to control the volume usibg thecm1 with iDSD connected. Not that I'm complaining, it's just weird.


----------



## RojasTKD

Yethal said:


> What firmware version are You on? I'm on 3.0 and I am unable to control the volume usibg thecm1 with iDSD connected. Not that I'm complaining, it's just weird.


Don't recall exactly, but I don't think it's 3.0, i think I'm still on 2.x FW. Will have to check later.

Not that's it's really I big deal to me. I just tested to confirm what others where saying.


----------



## RojasTKD

Yethal said:


> What firmware version are You on? I'm on 3.0 and I am unable to control the volume usibg thecm1 with iDSD connected. Not that I'm complaining, it's just weird.



Just checked and I am indeed on FW version 3.0.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, the nano iDSD BL official thread is now live! 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-nano-idsd-black-label.864211/#post-13824737


----------



## phthora

With all due respect to the Nano Black Label, who said the Micro Black Label isn't portable?


----------



## RojasTKD

phthora said:


> With all due respect to the Nano Black Label, who said the Micro Black Label isn't portable?



LOL, well you do you.  

For me the iDSD Micro is firmly in the transportable realm, not portable realm. Not something I ant to walk around with in my pocket, my V20 or Shanling M2s will do that more conveniently for me.


----------



## mandrake50

Yeah, while quite within the realm of being possible, I can't deal with that kind of volume of hard sharp edged electronics in a pants pocket.
I have a chest pack that I use while skiing that works OK. At least until I took a chest plant and thought I had shattered my breast bone...
Tossing it in a briefcase and setting up at my destination works great though.


----------



## Dobrescu George

phthora said:


> With all due respect to the Nano Black Label, who said the Micro Black Label isn't portable?



Dear sir, you have really deep pockets, literally


----------



## iFi audio

phthora said:


> With all due respect to the Nano Black Label, who said the Micro Black Label isn't portable?



That's the spirit!


----------



## sdolezalek

*Micro iDSD Black Label: A Different Flavor of Review*

The iFi Micro iDSD Black Label is a tremendous value in a portable DAC/headphone amplifier that also very capably doubles as a DAC in a high-end home audio system.  I recently had the pleasure of having two weeks with this DAC as part of iFi’s World Tour (that lends out some of its new products to a few lucky regular audio consumers like me). 

There are numerous reviews of the Micro iDSD BL as a DAC and headphone amp; almost all saying its audio capabilities far its exceed its very modest roughly $500 price point.  I don’t want to repeat that other than to say I wholeheartedly agree with the rave reviews it has received.

Instead, I’d like to talk about how the Micro iDSD BL can serve as a great way for computer audiophiles to get the most out of a combined hardware/software combination that maximizes the Micro BL’s sound capabilities and lets you, the user, fine tune exactly how you want your DAC to “sound.”

Arguably, we don’t want the Micro iDSD BL, or any other DAC, to sound like anything.  It should just be “transparent.” What you will learn is that in reality transparence comes in many flavors.  The big difference is that the combination of the Micro iDSD BL and computer audio software lets you, the user, choose the sound that is most “transparent” in your room and for your system. 

The truth is that what goes on in the D/A (digital to analog) transformation always has an influence on the final sound (MQA is trying to build a big business on that proposition).  By definition, the D/A conversion process involves tradeoffs that tend to pit linearity in frequency response versus accuracy in dynamics (or timing response), among others.  Typically, the DAC designer makes those choices for you and you get to decide (at the time you make the purchase) whether that set of compromises is best for you.  Unfortunately, you are typically forced to make that choice listening to your dealer’s system in your dealer’s room – not your system in your room.   

The Micro iDSD BL provides a very affordable way to fine tune your DAC to your system in your room, including any future updates you make to system or room.  How does it do that?  It does that by interfacing with a set of affordable software tools that allow us to choose a) the resolution of the music stream b) whether we use a PCM file or a DSD file, and c) what software filters we apply.  Those software tools include HQ Player, Roon, Audirvana, Foobar, JRiver MC, Amarra and others.

There is endless debate on whether the standard 16/44 redbook CD format suffices to give us audiophile quality sound, or whether we need DSD64 (the standard SACD format) or even higher resolution (i.e. PCM 24/192 or DSD512) files and whether there is a difference between them we can actually hear.

I’m not addressing that debate here.  But, I will argue that the iFi Micro iDSD BL provides a very affordable way for you to test each of these formats and that most of you will indeed hear noticeable differences.  Those differences, for the most part, don’t come from the resolution of the starting file as much as they come from how the iDSD Micro BL handles that file and how it applies digital filtering methods to produce the analog output.  My own view is the true benefits of higher resolution come from moving the filtering process further away from the audible (20Hz-20kHz) frequency band and thus less likely to produce artifacts that we can hear.  Specifically, I would argue that hi-res is not about hearing some frequencies not contained in a 16/44 file.  It is to benefit from gently sloping anti-aliasing filters, which, in turn, provide extremely good transient response. These filters also attenuate pre- and post-ringing.  What that means is that you can take an ordinary redbook CD file at PCM 16/44 or what a service like Tidal streams to your home and upconvert it in software to a much higher resolution file that is either PCM or DSD as you choose.  In addition, you can then carefully choose among a range of different software filters to apply before feeding that signal to your DAC. 

Most DACs do all of that internally when they are fed a 16/44 input.  How they do it is a decision the DAC manufacturer makes based upon what they “believe” is the best result using whatever their reference system is.

But your system is different.  Your ears are different.  Your listening space is different.  Given that, it is likely you’d have made a different decision if offered all of the choices your DAC designer went through.

That is where the iDSD Micro BL comes in.  It provides a highly affordable way to test those choices for yourself.  The tradeoff is you need to dedicate the time to learn how to use the software.  There is no “free lunch.”  What you save vis-à-vis a $5,000 DAC, you do have to spend some time learning and trialing with the Micro BL and your choice of software.

I have heard from a number of users that they have tried this or that software and can’t hear a difference.  That may be true because they don’t know what to listen for.  It may be true because their system isn’t resolving enough to matter.  But if I had to guess, in most cases it is because they didn’t take the time to learn the software enough to take advantage of its true capabilities.  To my ears, the differences are not at all subtle. 

The first step, in each case, is to test what level of upsampling your computer can perform before it starts to stutter.  In most cases a multi-core Intel i7 7000 series or better processor (or equivalent) together with at least 16GB of fast RAMM memory will be all you need for at least DSD256, if not DSD512 (depending in part on which filters you choose).  Next, make sure that your iDSD Micro BL is receiving that level of upsampling.  After that try both high res PCM and hi-res DSD and see which you prefer.   Most will say that DSD sounds a bit smoother.  The final step is then to test a variety of filters.

Every filter has its benefits and its tradeoffs.  What matters is which of those your own ears are most sensitive to.  Some ears are super-sensitive to linear frequency response or correctness of pitch.  Others are more sensitive to just how crisp the attack of a new note is and those ears generally dislike “ringing,” particularly “pre-ringing.”  Still other ears are sensitive to frequency roll-off over 10 kHz, whereas older ears often don’t hear much beyond 10kHz and are thus ok with tradeoffs that affect that region. What makes this step more difficult is that each software vendor has their own naming system for these filter choices (Audirvana using iZotope is all about numbers and there is a virtually unlimited number of choices), HQ Player offers filter choices with names like poly-sinc, minring, and closed-form but also offers a variety of Dithering choices and DSD Modulator choices, and Roon offers filter choices labelled “smooth” or “precise” and minimum or linear phase as well as DSD Modulator choices of 5th and 7th order CLANS and normal. 

This is where many of you ask: “Can’t I just tell you what my system I have and you tell me which choice is best for me?” If we all had the same rooms and ears, the answer might be yes.  Because we don’t, the only right answer is: “If you really want to get the most out of your system in your room, you need to try them all and the iDSD Micro BL gives you a really affordable way to do that.”

As you start listening to the different choices, if you are patient, you will hear clear differences, but you will also learn just how difficult it is to choose a single “best” result.

I’m going to use photographic rather than music terms to describe the effects of some of these choices because we have developed richer, crisper language to describe them in photography.  For example, some choices give the music more bloom, making it sound fuller in the same way that oversaturating the color in a photo can make it pop.  Choices that add more ringing can sound great at first because the ringing adds extra energy to the sound.  But over time your ears tire for the same reason that the best photographers don’t oversaturate their photos – too much all the time is just that, too much.

Other choices affect the seeming clarity or bite of the sounds.  Here the comparison is to using of sharpening tools in something like Photoshop.  Once again, a highly sharpened photo may look great at first glance; but it will grate on you over time because it isn’t really giving you fine detail; it is just highlighting the differences between light and dark.  Certain DAC/filtering choices will do the same, making the music sound really clear at fist listen, but grating over time.  A relatively new tool for photographers is “high dynamic range” or HDR.  It is a way to let a photograph show you a bigger spread between light and dark that the camera can really capture.  Certain filters can seem to do the same for music, highlighting certain differences that otherwise wouldn’t be noticeable.  When done right, it can provide significant benefit; overdone it looks and sounds, fake. 

Training your ears to hear these differences takes time and effort, but once you learn you can never go back.  You start noticing little things like just how certain notes hang in the air and decay differently from others.  Or you can suddenly hear a particular instrument stand out when in previous listenings it just blended in.  Or you can get a real sense of the room the music was recorded in, be it a studio, a jazz club, a cathedral or a stadium.  To me, the biggest difference when I get the filters dialed in right is that I suddenly notice how many more individual instruments I hear and how much more clearly I hear each one of them, including individual voices. 

So how does the iDSD Micro BL let you do all of this?  I’m going to explain it using the software combination I use most, namely Tidal + Roon + HQ Player (although I also have used each of Audirvana, Jriver Media Center, Roon alone and Amarra to do the same).  I use Tidal as a way to access 16/44 or better streaming content to go along with a library of digital files I have on my server that range from 16/44PCM to 24/376PCM, DXD, and from DSD64 to DSD512.  I use Roon to manage my music library and to present it to me in an extremely flexible and user-friendly fashion.  Lastly, I use HQ Player to handle the up-rezzing, conversion to DSD512 and filter choices because I believe that it has the most sophisticated set of filters available today.

The nice thing about doing all of this in software is that those choices are constantly improving through software updates in a way that hardware systems traditionally have not.  So, when your DAC manufacturer made his or her choices, they were based on the then available tools.  As newer, better tools are developed, many DAC manufacturers aren’t sending you updated firmware for their hardware (though some, like iFi do).

In my case, I let HQ Player upsample all of my files to DSD512 and then choose the filters I like best to feed the end result into my DAC.  Part of my reason for doing so is that I have highly resolving speakers (the Magnepan 20.1s) and I find that using PCM rather than DSD gives me just a bit too much edge on the sound.  Those with smoother sounding speakers may make just the opposite choice.  That is the easy part.  The choice of filters is somewhat harder as it also depends on what computer equipment you are using.  I use a dedicated PC built to handle the processing load that these software packages can create.  Older or less speedy computers may limit somewhat the choices you can make (for example you may have to choose DSD256 and different filters). 

The last step is to test filter choices (of which most of the software gives you many, and the explanations of what does what often leave a lot to be desired – partially because each choice will sound slightly different in your own system).  This is where the iDSD Micro BL really shines!  In my system the differences between filter choices are not subtle. Early on, there were choices that sounded great, but that no longer sounded so great after a few days of listening.  The longer I listened, the more I went for choices that seemed subtle on first listen, but ultimately gave my ears the most information about the recording venue/space, the exact location of musicians across the stage and the greatest ability to pick out individual instruments.  I have no doubt that my final choices reflect the interaction between my software, computer, the Micro BL, my amplifier and my speakers.  So, my choices are likely to be different than yours would be.

By taking your time with the iDSD Micro BL and making the choices that are best for your system, I believe that you can get as much sonic bliss from it as DACs costing 5-10 times as much.  Change your system, or switch from one room to another, and the iDSD Micro BL allows you to adjust your choices to best fit that particular system.  By itself, the iDSD Micro BL is an enormous value for a $500 DAC/headphone amp.  But combined with the right software and the choices that are best for your system, it can function on an entirely different level and teach you a lot about just how great your system can sound.  Yes, you also need to spend a bit of money on software and a fair amount of time in learning that software and making your choices, but the end result is hugely worth it.


----------



## xLoud

I have iDSD silver. I am selling it and I am considering Audio Gd NFB 11.28. Should I go for NFB 11.28 or iDSD Black Label? Did anyone compare iDSD BL with NFB 11.28?


----------



## RojasTKD

xLoud said:


> I have iDSD silver. I am selling it and I am considering Audio Gd NFB 11.28. Should I go for NFB 11.28 or iDSD Black Label? Did anyone compare iDSD BL with NFB 11.28?



I have the older NFB-11 and recently got an iDSD Black Lable. Have not done extensive listening as I just don't have the time right now, but I did do a quick comparison when I first got the iDSD. I think the NFB-11 sounds a little cleaner and a bit more clinical also. The iDSD sounds a but more fun/musical though. At least that the impression I got. WHen I say a bit, i mean a bit. One is not wildly more clinical and the other wildly more musical, just one is a bit more relative to the other.

The NFB is a great desktop solution and the iDSD is a fantastic transportable/portable solution. I like having the bass and 3D switches, they can com in handy in the right circumstances and with the right headphones/IEMs.

I'm considering the new R2R 11 for just a little more. http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm
Looks nearly identical to the NFB-11, but uses a resister ladder for digital to analong conversion. It's suppose to superior is some ways. So I'm intrigued.

But the iDSD is far more transportable and even portable(ish). The Bass and 3D switches are also nice to have with the right  headphones/earphones.


----------



## chungjun (Nov 13, 2017)

Hi, have been wondering what is the optimal setting under Windows 10 sound properties?

At the moment, I've set it to 32bit, 192000Hz (Studio Quality) and I noticed that the LED indicator on the iDSD is "Yellow". Source of music is Spotify (which offers up to 320kbps), is the Yellow indicator consistent or have I somehow 'forced' an 'up-sampling'?

With the same source (i.e. Spotify), if I set it to 24bit, 96,000Hz (Studio Quality) and the LED indicator turns "Green".

Control Panel > Sound > Speakers [iFi (by AMR) HD + USB Audio] > Properties > Advance (Tab)


----------



## Yethal

chungjun said:


> Hi, have been wondering what is the optimal setting under Windows 10 sound properties?
> 
> At the moment, I've set it to 32bit, 192000Hz (Studio Quality) and I noticed that the LED indicator on the iDSD is "Yellow". Source of music is Spotify (which offers up to 320kbps), is the Yellow indicator consistent or have I somehow 'forced' an 'up-sampling'?
> 
> ...


This setting doesn't matter. If you use ASIO or WASAPI, the output bit depth and sample rate will be automatically adjusted to match the properties of the file being played.


----------



## chungjun

I thought it’s automated too. But using Spotify the LED indicator signals otherwise (Yellow @ 32bit 190Khz vs Green @ 24bit 96Khz).



Yethal said:


> This setting doesn't matter. If you use ASIO or WASAPI, the output bit depth and sample rate will be automatically adjusted to match the properties of the file being played.


----------



## kukkurovaca

chungjun said:


> I thought it’s automated too. But using Spotify the LED indicator signals otherwise (Yellow @ 32bit 190Khz vs Green @ 24bit 96Khz).



Spotify doesn't do ASIO/WASAPI, does it? Tidal does, if you check "exclusive mode." I think you've got windows upsampling before it sends out to the dac, basically, which is probably not beneficial.


----------



## chungjun (Nov 13, 2017)

Hmm... tried google for Spotify ASIO / WASAPI... what I could gather is Spotify does _not_ support ASIO / WASAPI at the moment. If this is not the case, please do let me know.

Oh well, I don't intend for Windows 10 to up-sample nor down-sample my source. I prefer for iDSD to do the work.

Anyone has a workaround for Spotify? I'm all ears...



kukkurovaca said:


> Spotify doesn't do ASIO/WASAPI, does it? Tidal does, if you check "exclusive mode." I think you've got windows upsampling before it sends out to the dac, basically, which is probably not beneficial.


----------



## mandrake50

I would set it to 16 bit 44.1K.  You won't be missing anything from Spotify.
This does effect everything that uses the Windows sound system.
Again, if you are using a player that supports ASIO/WASAPI it bypasses the Windows sound.


----------



## chungjun

Hmm... okay thanks. Probably will have to work with that for now as far as listening on Spotify.

Apart from Spotify, I did try out foobar (with WASAPI / ASIO setup), iDSD's LED indicator is consistent with chance of source audio file (i.e. DSD / MP3 / flac etc).




mandrake50 said:


> I would set it to 16 bit 44.1K. You won't be missing anything from Spotify.
> This does effect everything that uses the Windows sound system.
> Again, if you are using a player that supports ASIO/WASAPI it bypasses the Windows sound.


----------



## mandrake50 (Nov 13, 2017)

Check your settings in Foobar. It too can be set to upsample.
I stopped looking at the led on the BL. To damn hard for me to tell what color it is. (Actually_  gave up on it when I realized that it does so many damn things in minor color graduations that I had to have the manual with me to figure out what it was telling me, after I turned the lights down enough to see the led color) _I usually just look at what Foobar is putting out and have faith that the BL is doing what it should. But I know my settings and what they do.


----------



## iFi audio

chungjun said:


> Hi, have been wondering what is the optimal setting under Windows 10 sound properties?



If you mainly play CD's and/or CD derived MP3's at 44.1kHz, set to 44.1kHz/16Bit and volume to max., this normally bypasses Windows internal processing, but not reliably (unfortunately).

You must select a silent sound scheme (so that there is no system sound kicking in) and assign communication defaults to a different device (e.g. internal sound).

In this case there should only be the Spotify audio stream and Windows will normally bypass the mixer. However as soon as two audio streams are mixed (e.g. system sounds and the main audio) the windows mixer will kick in AND STAY ENGAGED.

It is possible to use third party software (Audio Router, Equalify etc.) to operate so Spotify audio is sent to your DAC, while all system sounds remain on the build in audio system, this case with a 44.1kHz/16 Bit default setting should be bit-perfect (fingers crossed).



https://tall-paul.co.uk/2013/08/16/play-spotify-through-a-different-sound-device-windows/

We hope this helps.


----------



## thebkt

iFi audio said:


> If you mainly play CD's and/or CD derived MP3's at 44.1kHz, set to 44.1kHz/16Bit and volume to max., this normally bypasses Windows internal processing, but not reliably (unfortunately).
> 
> You must select a silent sound scheme (so that there is no system sound kicking in) and assign communication defaults to a different device (e.g. internal sound).
> 
> ...


Very handy info, thank you!


----------



## chungjun (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanks for the guide! And it does prompt me to re-examine my system settings.

Yup, my Windows 10 is on silent scheme (no system sound kicking in that I have encountered so far).
I have also disabled all other on-board sound device (under Device Manager > Sound, video and game controllers) leaving solely only iDSD BL enabled (shown in Device Manager as "iFi (by AMR) HD + USB Audio").

Notwithstanding iDSD BL is the sole sound device, am I correct to say that Windows mixer would _still_ kick in (AND STAY ENGAGED), if for example I am listening to Spotify and browsing the web where an video/audio advert from the webpage starts to play in the background (two audio streams?) or, for example I click the 'play' button on the YouTube guide above and was listening to Spotify at the same time?



iFi audio said:


> In this case there should only be the Spotify audio stream and Windows will normally bypass the mixer. However as soon as two audio streams are mixed (e.g. system sounds and the main audio) the windows mixer will kick in AND STAY ENGAGED.


----------



## technobear

chungjun said:


> Notwithstanding iDSD BL is the sole sound device, am I correct to say that Windows mixer would _still_ kick in (AND STAY ENGAGED), if for example I am listening to Spotify and browsing the web where an video/audio advert from the webpage starts to play in the background (two audio streams?) or, for example I click the 'play' button on the YouTube guide above and was listening to Spotify at the same time?


Yes.

(plus video sound is usually encoded at 48k, not 44k1)


----------



## Paradoxus

I just got a iDSD BL, and am pretty blown away by the step up in sound quality. Coming from the Schiit Modi2U + Magni 2U combo, I personally think the step up from the Schiit stack to the iDSD BL is even audible compared to my headphones direct to the computer. I listen almost exclusively to electronic music and am quite a basshead. Also I have pretty easy cans to drive - HE400i. 

I now use the iDSD BL with the bass boost on all the time. Was wondering if the iCan SE would be a significant step up. I've never tried tube amps, and am curious about the Tubestate technology. Also the 3 step XBass seems attractive. Sadly, it is not the same as the iDSD BL's XBass+. Anyone have any opinions on this and whether my headphones would benefit at all (especially since they are extremely easy to drive).

Also, as the iCan SE has been out for almost 2 years if i'm not wrong, I'm wondering if a iCan BL or an upgraded iCan (non-pro version) is in the works.


----------



## iFi audio

Paradoxus said:


> I just got a iDSD BL, and am pretty blown away by the step up in sound quality. Coming from the Schiit Modi2U + Magni 2U combo, I personally think the step up from the Schiit stack to the iDSD BL is even audible compared to my headphones direct to the computer. I listen almost exclusively to electronic music and am quite a basshead. Also I have pretty easy cans to drive - HE400i.
> 
> I now use the iDSD BL with the bass boost on all the time. Was wondering if the iCan SE would be a significant step up. I've never tried tube amps, and am curious about the Tubestate technology. Also the 3 step XBass seems attractive. Sadly, it is not the same as the iDSD BL's XBass+. Anyone have any opinions on this and whether my headphones would benefit at all (especially since they are extremely easy to drive).
> 
> Also, as the iCan SE has been out for almost 2 years if i'm not wrong, I'm wondering if a iCan BL or an upgraded iCan (non-pro version) is in the works.



Our TubeState tech is actually a solid state based solution, there are no tubes inside iCAN SE. This product operates in Class A, hence sounds warm, spacious and natural in general and resembles tubes in a way or two. If you look for a headphone amplifier, iCAN SE is the best one we have currently and aside our Pro range.


----------



## EJ102

Paradoxus said:


> I just got a iDSD BL, and am pretty blown away by the step up in sound quality. Coming from the Schiit Modi2U + Magni 2U combo, I personally think the step up from the Schiit stack to the iDSD BL is even audible compared to my headphones direct to the computer. I listen almost exclusively to electronic music and am quite a basshead. Also I have pretty easy cans to drive - HE400i.
> 
> I now use the iDSD BL with the bass boost on all the time. Was wondering if the iCan SE would be a significant step up. I've never tried tube amps, and am curious about the Tubestate technology. Also the 3 step XBass seems attractive. Sadly, it is not the same as the iDSD BL's XBass+. Anyone have any opinions on this and whether my headphones would benefit at all (especially since they are extremely easy to drive).
> 
> Also, as the iCan SE has been out for almost 2 years if i'm not wrong, I'm wondering if a iCan BL or an upgraded iCan (non-pro version) is in the works.


I've heard that the XBass+ switch on the Black Label is slightly better than the 2nd step of Xbass on the iCAN SE, but the 3rd step of the iCAN SE takes it up a notch.


----------



## Yethal

Interesting thing happened. My Brainwavz M100 iems just arrived. I was curious to see how they sound so I plugged them into my iDSD BL for a quick listen. Imagine my surprise when the bass literally disappeared. Not just the sub-bass thump, entire bass line from Drive by R.E.M vanished. This occurs regardless of the gain settings and the built-in IEMatch. However I also own a standalone IEMatch and if I plug the M100 using it everything sounds fine. Is there a logical explanation to all of this?


----------



## technobear

Yethal said:


> Interesting thing happened. My Brainwavz M100 iems just arrived. I was curious to see how they sound so I plugged them into my iDSD BL for a quick listen. Imagine my surprise when the bass literally disappeared. Not just the sub-bass thump, entire bass line from Drive by R.E.M vanished. This occurs regardless of the gain settings and the built-in IEMatch. However I also own a standalone IEMatch and if I plug the M100 using it everything sounds fine. Is there a logical explanation to all of this?


Yes. The plug is not correctly seated in the socket and is not making proper contact. Sounds like the ground connection is missing so what you are hearing is the difference between the left and right channels.

Squirt some contact cleaner onto the plug and twirl it around in the socket until normal service is resumed.


----------



## Yethal

technobear said:


> Yes. The plug is not correctly seated in the socket and is not making proper contact. Sounds like the ground connection is missing so what you are hearing is the difference between the left and right channels.
> 
> Squirt some contact cleaner onto the plug and twirl it around in the socket until normal service is resumed.


Interesting, I'll check this once I get home.


----------



## Paradoxus (Nov 23, 2017)

Thanks for the replies, just got myself an iCAN SE to use with the iDSD BL. Have only had 30 minutes to listen to it.



iFi audio said:


> Our TubeState tech is actually a solid state based solution, there are no tubes inside iCAN SE. This product operates in Class A, hence sounds warm, spacious and natural in general and resembles tubes in a way or two. If you look for a headphone amplifier, iCAN SE is the best one we have currently and aside our Pro range.



What would be the best way to run both the iDSD BL with the iCAN SE? I understand the bass boost is done via an analogue signal process. Should I run the iDSD in pre-amp mode, and engage the XBass+, or run it in direct mode and engage the XBass on the iCAN SE? What happens if i do both?

Also, based on the gain selections, would it best to have the iDSD BL or Eco or Normal, and then have the iCAN on higher gain? Or vice versa?



EJ102 said:


> I've heard that the XBass+ switch on the Black Label is slightly better than the 2nd step of Xbass on the iCAN SE, but the 3rd step of the iCAN SE takes it up a notch.



Not sure if i'm using the iCAN SE properly, but there seems to be only 2 selections of the iCAN SE's XBass:
1) Direct (no bass boost)
2) 3 dots - maximum bass boost
3) 1 dot - normal bass boost

From preliminary hearing, the maximum bass boost does increase the HE400i's bass significantly, i quite like it. Compared to the iDSD BL XBass+, the iDSD BL seems to offer more tightness and transient bass response (bass quality) at the expense of some bass quantity.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> Is there a logical explanation to all of this?



Poor (no) ground contact between the 3.5mm plug and 6.3mm -> 3.5mm adapter. Please try a different adapter.


----------



## Yethal

iFi audio said:


> Poor (no) ground contact between the 3.5mm plug and 6.3mm -> 3.5mm adapter. Please try a different adapter.





technobear said:


> Yes. The plug is not correctly seated in the socket and is not making proper contact. Sounds like the ground connection is missing so what you are hearing is the difference between the left and right channels.
> Squirt some contact cleaner onto the plug and twirl it around in the socket until normal service is resumed.


No longer occurs after swapping the adapters. Thanks iFi and technobear!


----------



## technobear

Paradoxus said:


> What would be the best way to run both the iDSD BL with the iCAN SE? I understand the bass boost is done via an analogue signal process. Should I run the iDSD in pre-amp mode, and engage the XBass+, or run it in direct mode and engage the XBass on the iCAN SE? What happens if i do both?
> .


That is for you to decide (but I would recommend 'Direct' mode).

Remember that in pre-amp mode, if you engage 3D you will get '3D for speakers', not '3D for headphones' from the RCA outputs.




Paradoxus said:


> Also, based on the gain selections, would it best to have the iDSD BL or Eco or Normal, and then have the iCAN on higher gain? Or vice versa?


Again it's for you to decide (but I would recommend 'Eco'). The gain should be set to give you a decent useable range on the volume control with YOUR headphones so we cannot advise, it's up to you.




Paradoxus said:


> Not sure if I'm using the iCAN SE properly, but there seems to be only 2 selections of the iCAN SE's XBass:
> 1) Direct (no bass boost)
> 2) 3 dots - maximum bass boost
> 3) 1 dot - normal bass boost


Correct.


----------



## iFi audio

Paradoxus said:


> What would be the best way to run both the iDSD BL with the iCAN SE?



iDSD micro BL in line out mode, eco mode. Set gain as required on iCAN SE.


----------



## Paradoxus

technobear said:


> That is for you to decide (but I would recommend 'Direct' mode).
> 
> Remember that in pre-amp mode, if you engage 3D you will get '3D for speakers', not '3D for headphones' from the RCA outputs.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, i never knew iDSD BL had a '3D for headphones' via the RCA output. 



iFi audio said:


> iDSD micro BL in line out mode, eco mode. Set gain as required on iCAN SE.



Thanks! Shall use it in this mode then.


----------



## technobear

Paradoxus said:


> Thanks for the info, i never knew iDSD BL had a '3D for headphones' via the RCA output.


It doesn't. That was my point. You only get '3D for headphones' from the headphone socket. You get '3D for speakers' from the RCA outputs - for use with desktop monitors.


----------



## Paradoxus

technobear said:


> It doesn't. That was my point. You only get '3D for headphones' from the headphone socket. You get '3D for speakers' from the RCA outputs - for use with desktop monitors.



Oops, i meant to type that I didn't realise the iDSD BL had a '3D for speakers' via the RCA output and a '3D for headphones' via the headphone jack. 

Thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## Yethal

It seems that my iDSD has died on me. I've been doing the whole charging dance for two days now but the LED doesn't even light up when I try to turn it on. Does somebody have any potential solution? I already tried leaving it plugged into a phone charger.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> It seems that my iDSD has died on me. I've been doing the whole charging dance for two days now but the LED doesn't even light up when I try to turn it on. Does somebody have any potential solution? I already tried leaving it plugged into a phone charger.



We're sorry to hear this. Can you please opean a support ticket via our platform?

http://support.ifi-audio.com

Thanks!


----------



## latios507

Could someone share their recommended settings to setup/make the most out of ifi micro idsd BL with Tidal HiFi Master mode?

Should the Passthrough MQA box be ticked (on)?

Thanks!


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, I’ve just read through 547 pages on this thread and finally caught up! 

Bought a Micro iDSD a few months back, and now use it exclusively as my desktop DAC connected to a Matrix HPA-3B balanced class A amp (so I’ve essentially built a supercharged balanced Audeze Deckard as my desktop amp, with the option of going mobile by unclipping the iDSD and taking it on the road). 

I do have a question I haven’t seen answered here: does it harm the iDSD (or affect the SQ) if you’re listening to headphones plugged in to the iDSD and headphones plugged in to the external amp (with line out from the iDSD) at the same time? 

I have my iDSD in Direct mode as the Matrix doesn’t need any help in the bass department. So am I correct in saying RCA out bypasses the iDSD amp and should therefore not degrade the quality of output if headphones and line out are used at the same time?

Thx in advance.


----------



## thebkt

gLer said:


> I have my iDSD in Direct mode as the Matrix doesn’t need any help in the bass department. So am I correct in saying RCA out bypasses the iDSD amp and should therefore not degrade the quality of output if headphones and line out are used at the same time?
> 
> Thx in advance.


This post discussed the method used for line outs.  Whether or not SQ is affected, no idea.  If you can't notice any change, then it doesn't affect things for you


----------



## iFi audio (Dec 8, 2017)

gLer said:


> Hey guys, I’ve just read through 547 pages on this thread and finally caught up!



Respect



gLer said:


> I have my iDSD in Direct mode as the Matrix doesn’t need any help in the bass department. So am I correct in saying RCA out bypasses the iDSD amp and should therefore not degrade the quality of output if headphones and line out are used at the same time?
> 
> Thx in advance.



Yes, you're correct, direct mode bypasses amplification circuitry.


----------



## gLer

iFi audio said:


> Respect
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you're correct, direct mode bypasses amplification circuitry to feed an external device.


Thank you for he prompt reply! So to be clear, there’s no harm being done to the iDSD if I have headphones plugged in to both the iDSD and the external amp (using the iDSD line out) and playing at the same time? I sometimes use it this way to A/B headphones (albeit using different amps).


----------



## iFi audio

gLer said:


> Thank you for he prompt reply! So to be clear, there’s no harm being done to the iDSD if I have headphones plugged in to both the iDSD and the external amp (using the iDSD line out) and playing at the same time? I sometimes use it this way to A/B headphones (albeit using different amps).



No harm will happen.


----------



## gLer

And another question if I may: I find using firmware 5.2b fixes the song start delay for me. Is there any harm using the iDSD as a desktop dac (permanently on and using USB power) with this firmware, which prevents the iDSD going into sleep mode?


----------



## gLer

iFi audio said:


> No harm will happen.


Great, thanks!


----------



## thebkt

gLer said:


> And another question if I may: I find using firmware 5.2b fixes the song start delay for me. Is there any harm using the iDSD as a desktop dac (permanently on and using USB power) with this firmware, which prevents the iDSD going into sleep mode?


  I had many of the same questions before purchasing my BL.

The following post answered a great deal.



iFi audio said:


> Let's address this in even more thorough way, shall we?
> 
> *TL;DR*
> 
> ...


----------



## gLer (Dec 8, 2017)

thebkt said:


> I had many of the same questions before purchasing my BL.
> 
> The following post answered a great deal.


Thanks, but unless I missed it, it doesn’t mention if it’s fine to use 5.2b while in USB mode (mine is in USB mode all the time). Does it still recharge to 75% if it can’t go into sleep mode (but when music is not playing)?

Also, do you know if it uses any battery ‘top up’ when used only in RCA mode? I generally don’t make use of the iDSD’s amp as it’s permanently connected to a much bigger and more powerful class A amp.


----------



## thebkt

gLer said:


> Thanks, but unless I missed it, it doesn’t mention if it’s fine to use 5.2b while in USB mode (mine is in USB mode all the time). Does it still recharge to 75% if it can’t go into sleep mode (but when music is not playing)?
> 
> Also, do you know if it uses any battery ‘top up’ when used only in RCA mode?


It certainly seems like it.  I leave mine turned on in USB mode at work all day and haven't had to charge it once since getting it.


----------



## TheoS53

Question for @iFi audio ......I've recently started playing with the IEMatch setting on my iDSD BL. Whilst using the Fiio F9 I must admit that I'm really liking the sound that I'm getting in Eco power and IEMatch on High. It just seems fuller, and the highs seem to be tamed down. But my question here is, which is technically the "correct" setting...IEMatch Off or on High? The reason I ask is because, when I do reviews, I prefer to state facts, rather than subjective opinions. What might *sound* better to me might not actually be technically better. So if IEMatch in the Off position provides a technically more accurate output of the signal that is being fed to the iDSD, then obviously that would be the objectively best setting to use. Does increasing the output impedance and this having to increase the volume introduce more distortion and therefore giving a more "tubey" sound?
In trying to find an answer for this I've been looking up damping factors, etc. but there really is just such a wide array of info out there, some of it seeming to create a number of contradictions that it's incredibly difficult to reach a clear answer.


----------



## rbalcom

latios507 said:


> Could someone share their recommended settings to setup/make the most out of ifi micro idsd BL with Tidal HiFi Master mode?
> 
> Should the Passthrough MQA box be ticked (on)?
> 
> Thanks!



Select the micro idsd as the sound device and select Exclusive Mode and Max Volume for it. DO NOT select the Passthrough MQA box because the micro idsd can not do hardware unwrapping of the Tidal MQA files. The Passthrough setting bypasses the unwrapping in the Tidal app to allow a hardware capable DAC to do it.


----------



## latios507

rbalcom said:


> Select the micro idsd as the sound device and select Exclusive Mode and Max Volume for it. DO NOT select the Passthrough MQA box because the micro idsd can not do hardware unwrapping of the Tidal MQA files. The Passthrough setting bypasses the unwrapping in the Tidal app to allow a hardware capable DAC to do it.



Thanks!

Btw, i'm planning to buy iFi Audio micro iUsb 3.0 and iFi iCan SE Amp soon. But then, Idk how to connect & set them up :|

What I have in my head right now is:-

Connect iFi Audio micro iUsb to my PC --> Connect ifi Micro iDsd BL to my iFi Audio iUsb -> Connect iFi iCan SE to my iFi Micro iDsd BL

Is this correct? Also, how should I hook up my iFi Micro iDsd BL with my iFi iCan SE, is it through the RCA output?

I've been trying to find some pics on the web but people are only showing the pics of their stack, not how they set them up (i.e. pictures of cable connecting to which port & etc). Hope u guys can help, thanks!


----------



## dannyvstheworld

Have you guys paired iDSD with Andromeda? I've searched this thread but found no results. I'm pairing it with Mojo right now but since I listen at very low volume I could hear some hisses. I added IEMatch in between and the hisses are eliminated, and I also read some reviews saying Andromeda doesn't hiss with iDSD at all, so I am tempted. (And iDSD is so versatile I'm sure my DT 1990 and HD6XX would also benefit from it.)

My only concern is that I've read somewhere that iDSD performs best after the volume past 12 o'clock, but like I said, I usually listen at very low volume, so I'm not sure I'll be able to reach the optimal volume even in the ultra sensitive mode. So if you guys have tried iDSD with very sensitive iems, what's your comfortable listening volume, and if you listen below the 12 o'clock, would there be any noticeable sound degration or channel imbalance? And if possible, could you describe how loud it is at 12 o'clock in the ultra sensitive mode, like comparable to how many steps in an iPhone, or how many steps in Mojo?

Thanks.


----------



## technobear

latios507 said:


> Connect iFi Audio micro iUsb to my PC --> Connect ifi Micro iDsd BL to my iFi Audio iUsb -> Connect iFi iCan SE to my iFi Micro iDsd BL
> 
> Is this correct?


Yes.



latios507 said:


> Also, how should I hook up my iFi Micro iDsd BL with my iFi iCan SE, is it through the RCA output?


Yes.


----------



## Jearly410

dannyvstheworld said:


> Have you guys paired iDSD with Andromeda? I've searched this thread but found no results. I'm pairing it with Mojo right now but since I listen at very low volume I could hear some hisses. I added IEMatch in between and the hisses are eliminated, and I also read some reviews saying Andromeda doesn't hiss with iDSD at all, so I am tempted. (And iDSD is so versatile I'm sure my DT 1990 and HD6XX would also benefit from it.)
> 
> My only concern is that I've read somewhere that iDSD performs best after the volume past 12 o'clock, but like I said, I usually listen at very low volume, so I'm not sure I'll be able to reach the optimal volume even in the ultra sensitive mode. So if you guys have tried iDSD with very sensitive iems, what's your comfortable listening volume, and if you listen below the 12 o'clock, would there be any noticeable sound degration or channel imbalance? And if possible, could you describe how loud it is at 12 o'clock in the ultra sensitive mode, like comparable to how many steps in an iPhone, or how many steps in Mojo?
> 
> Thanks.



I get my andros back Monday but I have used them with my ifi bl and in ultra sensitive mode there is zero hiss. Based on my memory the listening level for me is about 5 clicks on an iPhone.


----------



## dannyvstheworld

Jearly410 said:


> I get my andros back Monday but I have used them with my ifi bl and in ultra sensitive mode there is zero hiss. Based on my memory the listening level for me is about 5 clicks on an iPhone.


Thanks. 5 clicks is a bit too loud for me so I guess I won't be buying iDSD just for Andro.

Though I'm still tempted to buy it for my full size headphones..


----------



## gLer

Hey guys/ifi Audio. Quick question about line out. If I split the RCA line outs (I have two amps) with RCA splitters, will both amps still get the full 2V line out signal? Doesn't sound like I'm getting any less volume in either amp, so I assume that's the case, but wanted to check anyway - and also ask if there's any harm sound-wise in doing so? Thx.


----------



## technobear

gLer said:


> Hey guys/ifi Audio. Quick question about line out. If I split the RCA line outs (I have two amps) with RCA splitters, will both amps still get the full 2V line out signal? Doesn't sound like I'm getting any less volume in either amp, so I assume that's the case, but wanted to check anyway - and also ask if there's any harm sound-wise in doing so? Thx.


Yes and No.


----------



## redryder

Hi guys,

I have the Fiio A3, and my HD650 and THX00 are plenty loud using the Fiio. Does the IFI significantly sound better than the Fiio to be worth the $350 (used price on Amazon)?


----------



## HungryPanda

In a word: yes, also can be used as a desktop DAC and has many different settings


----------



## waynes world

HungryPanda said:


> In a word: yes, also can be used as a desktop DAC and has many different settings



Oh oh. I've been lusting for one of these for a long time for my desktop. And you have one? That could be dangerous for me and my wallet. Just tell me that all of your earbuds sound horrible off of it and I'll be okay. Might as well throw in your headphones into that statement too. Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> Yes and No.


----------



## hemipowered007

redryder said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have the Fiio A3, and my HD650 and THX00 are plenty loud using the Fiio. Does the IFI significantly sound better than the Fiio to be worth the $350 (used price on Amazon)?



Loud does not equate to sound quality.  The hd650 needs a good source to really get it's great qualities out of it. I havnt heard the 650 on the ifi, but I know it will give it better sq over that fiio a3. The thx00 ahouldnt scale a whole ton, i have a d2k which is similar, but they do sound more controlled and cleaner out of the ifi than straibht out of my fiio x3. If youre planning on continuing down the audiophile route, the idsd bl is a fantastic purchase as it really is a Swiss army knife and adapts to many rigs. I just can't see myself ever selling it, it's just too good of a piece of gear for the price, and a great multiuse gem FOR ME.  Value of an audio purchase is always going to be subjective and individual user based, but knowing how the hd650 sounds on a mediocre rig compared to something of more substance and quality, it's worth the price difference, and I have yet to read anyone saying the black label wasn't a good pairing with their hps, it's done well with everything I have, and that I've tried it with.  If you can grab it on Amazon with that 30 day return window then it's a no brainer.


----------



## cardeli22

hemipowered007 said:


> Loud does not equate to sound quality.  The hd650 needs a good source to really get it's great qualities out of it. I havnt heard the 650 on the ifi, but I know it will give it better sq over that fiio a3. The thx00 ahouldnt scale a whole ton, i have a d2k which is similar, but they do sound more controlled and cleaner out of the ifi than straibht out of my fiio x3. If youre planning on continuing down the audiophile route, the idsd bl is a fantastic purchase as it really is a Swiss army knife and adapts to many rigs. I just can't see myself ever selling it, it's just too good of a piece of gear for the price, and a great multiuse gem FOR ME.  Value of an audio purchase is always going to be subjective and individual user based, but knowing how the hd650 sounds on a mediocre rig compared to something of more substance and quality, it's worth the price difference, and I have yet to read anyone saying the black label wasn't a good pairing with their hps, it's done well with everything I have, and that I've tried it with.  If you can grab it on Amazon with that 30 day return window then it's a no brainer.


I agree with all points. I have done my fair share of reading on the HD6xx/HD650 lately (been staring at the Massdrop sale a lot) and from what I gather the 650s scale really well with the gear. The fact that the ifi BL is smallish, battery operated, can receive optical, coaxial, usb audio, and analog in, allows me to use in on my pc, game consoles, at work, when traveling on a plane/train etc..., powerful amp, and it sounds great? A no brainer purchase.


----------



## Roscoeiii

dannyvstheworld said:


> Thanks. 5 clicks is a bit too loud for me so I guess I won't be buying iDSD just for Andro.
> 
> Though I'm still tempted to buy it for my full size headphones..



huh? I wouldn't get too worried about where you are on the volume dial of the iDSD Micro BL (unless you are detecting a channel imbalance which can happen on the low end of some pots, but I've never noticed this with the BL). I love it with my Andros. 9 o'clock with Ultra IEMatch is normal listening level and that's sufficient. Don't get caught up on one single detail like ideal pot position. Even at a less than ideal level on the dial, it may still sound stellar and better than any other options. 

And the Andros are VERY picky on sources. 

No hiss with Andros is a significant achievement, and the IEMatch settings of High and Ultra hit the sweet spot of output impedance for Andros (~1.5-2.5 ohms). Mojo, on the other hand has such a low output impedance that it makes the Andros a bit bassier than what many folks consider ideal. Higher output impedance makes them a bit too treble heavy for most.


----------



## redryder

hemipowered007 said:


> Loud does not equate to sound quality.  The hd650 needs a good source to really get it's great qualities out of it. I havnt heard the 650 on the ifi, but I know it will give it better sq over that fiio a3. The thx00 ahouldnt scale a whole ton, i have a d2k which is similar, but they do sound more controlled and cleaner out of the ifi than straibht out of my fiio x3. If youre planning on continuing down the audiophile route, the idsd bl is a fantastic purchase as it really is a Swiss army knife and adapts to many rigs. I just can't see myself ever selling it, it's just too good of a piece of gear for the price, and a great multiuse gem FOR ME.  Value of an audio purchase is always going to be subjective and individual user based, but knowing how the hd650 sounds on a mediocre rig compared to something of more substance and quality, it's worth the price difference, and I have yet to read anyone saying the black label wasn't a good pairing with their hps, it's done well with everything I have, and that I've tried it with.  If you can grab it on Amazon with that 30 day return window then it's a no brainer.




I can’t enjoy the 30 day Amazon return since I don’t live in the US so the decision is a bit harder for me. 

The micro black label is a little too expensive for me, should I consider the nano black label or the original micro idsd? I have a range of iems and the aforementioned headphones. Usage will be at home since I don’t see myself pocketing the amp during commutes.


----------



## dannyvstheworld

Roscoeiii said:


> huh? I wouldn't get too worried about where you are on the volume dial of the iDSD Micro BL (unless you are detecting a channel imbalance which can happen on the low end of some pots, but I've never noticed this with the BL). I love it with my Andros. 9 o'clock with Ultra IEMatch is normal listening level and that's sufficient. Don't get caught up on one single detail like ideal pot position. Even at a less than ideal level on the dial, it may still sound stellar and better than any other options.
> 
> And the Andros are VERY picky on sources.
> 
> No hiss with Andros is a significant achievement, and the IEMatch settings of High and Ultra hit the sweet spot of output impedance for Andros (~1.5-2.5 ohms). Mojo, on the other hand has such a low output impedance that it makes the Andros a bit bassier than what many folks consider ideal. Higher output impedance makes them a bit too treble heavy for most.


Thanks for the detailed explanation. I was worried about the channel imbalance at low volume, but if you don’t feel any even at 9 o’clock, I guess it won’t be a problem for me either.

Yes Andros can change a bit under different output impedance but most of the time I can live with some lower end uplift. What annoys me is the hiss since I’m listening at such low volume and the hisses become more noticeable. From all the review I’ve read it’s the part that iDSD really excels, even without the ultra settings on (but this is just from what I read somewhere).

Wish I could see your post just a tiny bit earlier because I just missed a 15% discount on iDSD from a local distributor.. Now I’m taking time to decide so I’m gonna spend some time with Mojo and iEMatch, and if I’m not convinced then iDSD is my next step..


----------



## Roscoeiii

dannyvstheworld said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. I was worried about the channel imbalance at low volume, but if you don’t feel any even at 9 o’clock, I guess it won’t be a problem for me either.
> 
> Yes Andros can change a bit under different output impedance but most of the time I can live with some lower end uplift. What annoys me is the hiss since I’m listening at such low volume and the hisses become more noticeable. From all the review I’ve read it’s the part that iDSD really excels, even without the ultra settings on (but this is just from what I read somewhere).
> 
> Wish I could see your post just a tiny bit earlier because I just missed a 15% discount on iDSD from a local distributor.. Now I’m taking time to decide so I’m gonna spend some time with Mojo and iEMatch, and if I’m not convinced then iDSD is my next step..



Find a way to listen to the iDSD Black Label Micro. Let your ears decide. 

15% off doesn't end up being too much money. Maybe even see if the distributer will still give you that price. Or try it from someplace with a good return policy. It also seems that sales on these from some retailers aren't too infrequent. Or perhaps keep an eye out for a used one here. If you don't like it you can resell it at a minimal loss.

But trust your ears and try for yourself once you have narrowed down the options to a manageable number.


----------



## coklatua

iFi audio said:


> Let's address this in even more thorough way, shall we?
> 
> *TL;DR*
> 
> ...


Hi, is this mode also applied for the new IFi idsd Nano black label too?


----------



## iFi audio

coklatua said:


> Hi, is this mode also applied for the new IFi idsd Nano black label too?



This quote of ours doesn't apply to nano iDSD BL. In case of this device, just plug it and charge making sure the unit is switched off of course and you're good!


----------



## coklatua

iFi audio said:


> This quote of ours doesn't apply to nano iDSD BL. In case of this device, just plug it and charge making sure the unit is switched off of course and you're good!


So, it doesn't have the powersave mode. Am I right?


----------



## TheTrace

Anyone use ifi micro idsd black label with these headphones?


----------



## Dobrescu George

TheTrace said:


> Anyone use ifi micro idsd black label with these headphones?



With which ones?


----------



## TheTrace

Dobrescu George said:


> With which ones?


Whoops lol wrong thread, meant to put this in the Nighthawk thread but here will do too.


----------



## Themordent

dannyvstheworld said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. I was worried about the channel imbalance at low volume, but if you don’t feel any even at 9 o’clock, I guess it won’t be a problem for me either.
> 
> Yes Andros can change a bit under different output impedance but most of the time I can live with some lower end uplift. What annoys me is the hiss since I’m listening at such low volume and the hisses become more noticeable. From all the review I’ve read it’s the part that iDSD really excels, even without the ultra settings on (but this is just from what I read somewhere).
> 
> Wish I could see your post just a tiny bit earlier because I just missed a 15% discount on iDSD from a local distributor.. Now I’m taking time to decide so I’m gonna spend some time with Mojo and iEMatch, and if I’m not convinced then iDSD is my next step..


I sold my vanilla Micro iDSD on USAM just a few weeks ago, RIP... was a couple of years old but still in perfect condition.  If only I had joined sooner, could have given you a good deal.

I've owned both the Mojo and the iDSD and heard the Andros out of a few other sources.  The iFi unit is the only portable DAC/amp unit I've come across with such a low noise floor, no hiss with any IEMs I threw at it. Maybe the IEMatch can do this as well, but it's definitely more unwieldy than a single-box solution.


----------



## dannyvstheworld

Themordent said:


> I sold my vanilla Micro iDSD on USAM just a few weeks ago, RIP... was a couple of years old but still in perfect condition.  If only I had joined sooner, could have given you a good deal.
> 
> I've owned both the Mojo and the iDSD and heard the Andros out of a few other sources.  The iFi unit is the only portable DAC/amp unit I've come across with such a low noise floor, no hiss with any IEMs I threw at it. Maybe the IEMatch can do this as well, but it's definitely more unwieldy than a single-box solution.


Yeah the iEMatch is really good at eliminating hisses. Put one between Mojo and Andros and there's absolutely no hisses at all. But it's cumbersome to add another item between your gears, especially with Mojo which already has one more cable to deal with than most portable DACs.. With iDSD you only need a OTG cable, which is much more convenient.


----------



## hemipowered007

Hey ifi, please do us a favor and make a dap with the sound quality close to the black label, under 1k$. Even if it's almost the size of the micro, I would still be interested! So, if you could get on that, that'd be greaaaaat.


----------



## iFi audio

hemipowered007 said:


> Hey ifi, please do us a favor and make a dap with the sound quality close to the black label, under 1k$. Even if it's almost the size of the micro, I would still be interested! So, if you could get on that, that'd be greaaaaat.



Who knows, maybe one day...


----------



## hemipowered007

iFi audio said:


> Who knows, maybe one day...




Don't tease me ifi


----------



## tjw321

hemipowered007 said:


> Hey ifi, please do us a favor and make a dap with the sound quality close to the black label, under 1k$. Even if it's almost the size of the micro, I would still be interested! So, if you could get on that, that'd be greaaaaat.


I'm in! (1k$ is a bit steep for my budget, but it wouldn't have to be much less - and micro size would def. be tolerable)


----------



## iFi audio

Good to know that people here would like us to develop a DAP. Good to know...


----------



## Yethal

Or maybe, just maybe, a poly-like addon for the iDSD that would match up perfectly and offered wireless control?


----------



## Vitaly2017

DarktoreS said:


> The iTube strengthens the iCan SE, I would almost say that the IDSD is good enough to spend iCan. The soundstage is denser and better mastered in high frequencies with the iTube. I have long compared the IDSD vs IDSD + iCan, then the IDSD vs iTube + iCan.  I think this puts performance at the highest level. But I could content myself with the IDSD only, it is only because I have found very affordable opportunity that I bought the iCan + iTube. The iRack being almost essential once left my madness for this set iFi-Audio ...





Hi I am interested in the triple stack combo to. But i need portability. Can you run the itubes and ican se from the micro idsd without pluging it to the wall power?  I heard the the current could pass threw the rca conections and it got powered from the micro that way. I really like the triple stack but need portability if not other ways probably just better get the ican pro?


----------



## technobear

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hi I am interested in the triple stack combo to. But i need portability. Can you run the itubes and ican se from the micro idsd without pluging it to the wall power?


No.



Vitaly2017 said:


> I heard the current could pass threw the rca conections and it got powered from the micro that way.


I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry here.


----------



## Yethal

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hi I am interested in the triple stack combo to. But i need portability. Can you run the itubes and ican se from the micro idsd without pluging it to the wall power?  I heard the the current could pass threw the rca conections and it got powered from the micro that way. I really like the triple stack but need portability if not other ways probably just better get the ican pro?


This really isn't how any of this stuff works.


----------



## Vitaly2017

technobear said:


> No.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry here.





Ok lol  I guess I was dreaming very hard 
So if we talk portability so only micro idsd bl or the nano idsd bl?
In that case how do they both compare to each other? In sq and power to run hd800s?


----------



## iFi audio

Vitaly2017 said:


> So if we talk portability so only micro idsd bl or the nano idsd bl?



From our offer, both Black Label devices are the best we currently have.


----------



## goldsmith83 (Dec 30, 2017)

I recently ordered an ican SE but I've just decided to order an idsd BL Micro. The issue is that having the idsd I don't know what exactly contributes the ican. Should I return it since it's still in the 14 days return period?


----------



## cardeli22

goldsmith83 said:


> I recently ordered an ican SE but I've just decided to order an idsd BL Micro. The issue is that having the idsd I don't know what exactly contributes the ican. Should I return it since it's still in the 14 days return period?


It has been mentioned either here or the other idsd BL thread by Ifi audio that the ican se, though having the same 4watt output, is a better sounding amp. How much better would be up to your ears.


----------



## Vitaly2017

goldsmith83 said:


> I recently ordered an ican SE but I've just decided to order an idsd BL Micro. The issue is that having the idsd I don't know what exactly contributes the ican. Should I return it since it's still in the 14 days return period?




You can also add another itubes 2 in between the idsd black and ican se. Witch I heard even better tuby sound  for an ultimate triple stack


----------



## Yethal

What's the first thing you do after your iDSD BL come back from servicing? You install the new, sexy potentiometer!


----------



## goldsmith83

cardeli22 said:


> It has been mentioned either here or the other idsd BL thread by Ifi audio that the ican se, though having the same 4watt output, is a better sounding amp. How much better would be up to your ears.



Sorry, I should have searched those threads before which I did after posting my comment. I think I have to test both gears together when the BL arrives.



Vitaly2017 said:


> You can also add another itubes 2 in between the idsd black and ican se. Witch I heard even better tuby sound  for an ultimate triple stack



I'm afraid I can't afford it right now but the original ITube is 50% off on the store where I've ordered the ICan and IDSD.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> What's the first thing you do after your iDSD BL come back from servicing? You install the new, sexy potentiometer!



From what this picture tells us, that knob is quite useful, isn't it ?


----------



## Yethal

iFi audio said:


> From what this picture tells us, that knob is quite useful, isn't it ?


Yeah, it definitely prevents accidental hearing loss due to improper volume setting. Now all I need to worry about is the nonaccidental hearing loss.


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, has anyone compared the iDSD Micro with the Audio-GD R2R 11? Would be interesting to hear how our little dac/amp holds up against a true multibit dac design.


----------



## Asukara

I'm considering upgrading my dac/amp for desktop use only and I like to switch back and forth with my speakers. It will be used all day long. 
Is the iDSD Micro BL good for my kind of use?


----------



## technobear

Asukara said:


> I'm considering upgrading my dac/amp for desktop use only and I like to switch back and forth with my speakers. It will be used all day long.
> Is the iDSD Micro BL good for my kind of use?


It depends what you mean by 'switch'.

There is no switch for this on the BL. Those RCA outputs are live all the time. The only switch chooses between direct mode (no volume control, no xbass, no 3D) or pre-amp mode where all the features are available.

A better sounding alternative is the iDAC2 plus iCAN. The latter has a 3.5mm input on the rear which is linked directly to the RCA inputs so it also functions as a pass-through output - or you could use an RCA splitter.

In either case, I heartily recommend the addition of iPurifier2 when funds allow.


----------



## thebkt

Asukara said:


> I'm considering upgrading my dac/amp for desktop use only and I like to switch back and forth with my speakers. It will be used all day long.
> Is the iDSD Micro BL good for my kind of use?


If you're not going to need portability, then I can't imagine why you wouldn't buy a dedicated desk DAC/amp like the nfb-11 for example. 

The idsd bl is great, but you pay a premium for portability and other features that will be wasted if you're not using it on the go.


----------



## Asukara

I actually have the NFB-11.28. So it wouldn't be that much of an upgrade?


----------



## gLer (Jan 6, 2018)

Asukara said:


> I actually have the NFB-11.28. So it wouldn't be that much of an upgrade?


No, if anything it's a side grade. All depends if you prefer the sound of the Sabre in the 11.28 or the warmer Burr Brown in the ifi. The 11.28 amp is better than the ifi however (not by much, but better), and has switchable preamp/fixed line out that the ifi doesn't. But the ifi has portability in its favour. And that beautiful DAC. I would however consider the R2R-11 - would love to get impressions of that amp/dac compared to the ifi.


----------



## Asukara

I see, thank you for your answers guys


----------



## Vitaly2017

Hi coold some one help me out, if I use the micro idsd black with a itube 2 conected via rca, can I use an adapter for output directly to the headphones from the itube2?
this is the adapter,
https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-YPR-131...rd_wg=wM547&psc=1&refRID=F1GZCYMNZ2HSX6QG9N4W

Like I want that to be portable I guess there is no run around to get the power adapter so the itube2 get feed via side usb from the micro idsd bl for the power?

any suggestions if this would work?


----------



## technobear (Jan 7, 2018)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hi coold some one help me out, if I use the micro idsd black with a itube 2 conected via rca, can I use an adapter for output directly to the headphones from the itube2?
> this is the adapter,
> https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-YPR-131...rd_wg=wM547&psc=1&refRID=F1GZCYMNZ2HSX6QG9N4W
> 
> ...


No. Definitely not.

Edit: and the iTube2 doesn't run on 5 Volts so you can't power it from an iDSD and in any case the iDSD charging port is only available when iDSD is turned OFF.


----------



## goldsmith83

I just bought a micro iCAN SE and a micro iDSD BL. I need a new good pair of headphones to make the most of these gears. Any suggestions for up to 600$ roughly? I listen especially to soft rock, synth-pop, hard rock, progressive but I enjoy classical, film scores, and jazz as well, mostly when the recording and mastering is good. In short I'd like them to perform well on any genres. Any help will be pretty much appreciated.


----------



## phthora

goldsmith83 said:


> I just bought a micro iCAN SE and a micro iDSD BL. I need a new good pair of headphones to make the most of these gears. Any suggestions for up to 600$ roughly? I listen especially to soft rock, synth-pop, hard rock, progressive but I enjoy classical, film scores, and jazz as well, mostly when the recording and mastering is good. In short I'd like them to perform well on any genres. Any help will be pretty much appreciated.



HiFiMan HE560. They are $350 right now at Adorama. That price is absurdly low for such an amazing headphone, and one that pairs brilliantly with the Black Label.
https://www.adorama.com/hmhe560.html?emailprice=t

On the other hand, I haven't heard anything that didn't pair brilliantly with the Black Label and it can drive everything. You can basically get whatever 'phones you want and not have to worry about issues with synergy.


----------



## TheoS53

goldsmith83 said:


> I just bought a micro iCAN SE and a micro iDSD BL. I need a new good pair of headphones to make the most of these gears. Any suggestions for up to 600$ roughly? I listen especially to soft rock, synth-pop, hard rock, progressive but I enjoy classical, film scores, and jazz as well, mostly when the recording and mastering is good. In short I'd like them to perform well on any genres. Any help will be pretty much appreciated.



I just received the Sundara for review, and so far I'm liking it A LOT


----------



## goldsmith83 (Jan 20, 2018)

phthora said:


> HiFiMan HE560. They are $350 right now at Adorama. That price is absurdly low for such an amazing headphone, and one that pairs brilliantly with the Black Label.
> https://www.adorama.com/hmhe560.html?emailprice=t
> 
> On the other hand, I haven't heard anything that didn't pair brilliantly with the Black Label and it can drive everything. You can basically get whatever 'phones you want and not have to worry about issues with synergy.



You read my thoughts, the HE-560 is actually one of the options on my mind. That offer is mind-boggling, it beats by far the earlier best one I saw on a French online store (550 euro, $672) the lowest price I've seen in Europe for the HE-560, even in spite of the customs duty. Some time ago I saw them on amazon.com for $399 but I didn't decide on them at the time. The only drawback maybe is that, by some reviews I've read, they're a little lacking in the bass section.


----------



## audiomonkey777

Using Sennheiser HD 800 with the BL and so far no complaints...


----------



## iFi audio

*GE5670 reserved for flagship AMR and iFi*
*Press release*

We have some mixed news for lovers of the GE5670.

It is our understanding that we have tracked down and acquired the last known large-scale stockpile of GE5670 tubes.



 

The good news is that we have amassed a respectable inventory for AMR to use in their machines and for iFi to use in their flagship ‘Pro’ series for the foreseeable future (read: years).

The bad news is that once units in the supply chain of iTUBE2s and NOS6922s are all gone, there will be no more. The recent rise in the price of the GE5670 makes it even more the right decision to not continue with using the GE5670 in this product. Given that we need to reserve 2 pcs of the GE5670 for each Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN and for the AMR 777 machines too, priority must be given to these flagship products.

*History of the venerable GE5670*

For those wishing to delve into the history of the GE5670 and why we chose it over its ‘lesser’ cousin the 6922:

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/


----------



## cardeli22

Pro idsd Confirmed.


----------



## cardeli22

technobear said:


> Try increasing that buffer to 5 seconds (i.e. 5000, not 500).
> 
> Does it crackle on all audio formats or only high-res?


What is the default for usb streaming mode? I changed it and don't remember the default. I think it was on the reliable setting.


----------



## technobear

cardeli22 said:


> What is the default for usb streaming mode? I changed it and don't remember the default. I think it was on the reliable setting.


Mine is set to 'Safe' which I think was the default setting.


----------



## cardeli22

technobear said:


> Mine is set to 'Safe' which I think was the default setting.


Thx. I believe you are right.


----------



## gLer

Hey guys. Does anyone own the iDSD Micro as well as Audio-GD R2R 11? I'd love to know how they compare - mainly the dac section (is the R2R an upgrade over the ifi's dac?) but also the amp section (which I have no doubt the AGD will win hands down given it's Class A and desktop vs AB and portable). So much talk lately about R2R (and especially NOS R2R) kicking DS dacs to the curb, I'm wondering if that's actually the case, and if the ifi's hybrid multibit dac holds its own in this company. 

Thx in advance.


----------



## hemipowered007

I'm not necessarily looking to throw money at something that's not an immediate problem, but, what dap out there has a sound sig and performance similar to the black label? I sometimes want to retire the black label to home or desk use only, but my current dap, while sonically fine for my ex1000, just doesn't make them sing like the ifi. I'm probably asking a question I don't want to know the answer to, and have a eerie feeling I've asked this prior but can't remember. Kids +60 hour work weeks make my brain uneasy and forgetful.


----------



## Raccoonwrangler

hemipowered007 said:


> I'm not necessarily looking to throw money at something that's not an immediate problem, but, what dap out there has a sound sig and performance similar to the black label? I sometimes want to retire the black label to home or desk use only, but my current dap, while sonically fine for my ex1000, just doesn't make them sing like the ifi. I'm probably asking a question I don't want to know the answer to, and have a eerie feeling I've asked this prior but can't remember. Kids +60 hour work weeks make my brain uneasy and forgetful.


I am using the Fiio X7 II with my Sony EX 1000's. I bought the Balanced cable from Beat Audio in China. The EX1000's sound great on the X7 II. They definitely sing. One of the best portable rigs I have ever used. I own over 14 IFI products and love them but the Fiio rig does better than my IDSD Black Label. Just a better synergy between components.


----------



## hemipowered007

Raccoonwrangler said:


> I am using the Fiio X7 II with my Sony EX 1000's. I bought the Balanced cable from Beat Audio in China. The EX1000's sound great on the X7 II. They definitely sing. One of the best portable rigs I have ever used. I own over 14 IFI products and love them but the Fiio rig does better than my IDSD Black Label. Just a better synergy between components.



Well you're the 2nd person to say that to me about the x7ii. I like my 1st gen x3 so maybe I'll go that route. For now though, still like this stack, just not something I like to stuff in my pocket on the go. Would like to keep the bl at home or as a transportable at work.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Hey folks, I got my micro idsd black for couple days now and really love it I use it with hd800s + micro idsd black + lg v30. It also works really well with Iems I tried it with my shure's se846 that bass boost really go strong, on se846 I leave it off and for hd800s on. 3d + always off. The Idsd BL is so powerful that it runs my hd800s on eco with volume at 1/3.  My only issues with idsd is, I was getting some weird pops noises randomly on the first charge that the device arrived, now I charged it fully seems to be less prominent heard it like 2 or 3 times in a 40 min listening period. But on first charge heard it every 3 mins or so weird.  So far I can tell this idsd black is super crisp detailed and very precise, it is on the bright side though specially with the hd800s I still love how it sounds I love micro detailed and precision in music, I listen mostly to electronic ambient stuff.


----------



## hemipowered007

Vitaly2017 said:


> Hey folks, I got my micro idsd black for couple days now and really love it I use it with hd800s + micro idsd black + lg v30. It also works really well with Iems I tried it with my shure's se846 that bass boost really go strong, on se846 I leave it off and for hd800s on. 3d + always off. The Idsd BL is so powerful that it runs my hd800s on eco with volume at 1/3.  My only issues with idsd is, I was getting some weird pops noises randomly on the first charge that the device arrived, now I charged it fully seems to be less prominent heard it like 2 or 3 times in a 40 min listening period. But on first charge heard it every 3 mins or so weird.  So far I can tell this idsd black is super crisp detailed and very precise, it is on the bright side though specially with the hd800s I still love how it sounds I love micro detailed and precision in music, I listen mostly to electronic ambient stuff.



Were the pops there using this on a streaming service? Just asking because I've had that happen on different devices before especially odd issues using usb from a pc/laptop, not on the ifi but other devices in the past. Are you using the v30 as a transport? What connection are you using? I'm inclined to think it's not the ifi here but obviously I could be wrong


----------



## dharma

_


Vitaly2017 said:



			Hey folks, I got my micro idsd black for couple days now and really love it I use it with hd800s + micro idsd black + lg v30. It also works really well with Iems I tried it with my shure's se846 that bass boost really go strong, on se846 I leave it off and for hd800s on. 3d + always off. The Idsd BL is so powerful that it runs my hd800s on eco with volume at 1/3.  My only issues with idsd is, I was getting some weird pops noises randomly on the first charge that the device arrived, now I charged it fully seems to be less prominent heard it like 2 or 3 times in a 40 min listening period. But on first charge heard it every 3 mins or so weird.  So far I can tell this idsd black is super crisp detailed and very precise, it is on the bright side though specially with the hd800s I still love how it sounds I love micro detailed and precision in music, I listen mostly to electronic ambient stuff.
		
Click to expand...

_
Hi! Are You using computer/device USB3 port ('blue'-marked)? If yes, then try older standard USB2 port or/and update USB drivers (to latest possible version).
[It worked for me, with micro idsd]


----------



## Vitaly2017

hemipowered007 said:


> Were the pops there using this on a streaming service? Just asking because I've had that happen on different devices before especially odd issues using usb from a pc/laptop, not on the ifi but other devices in the past. Are you using the v30 as a transport? What connection are you using? I'm inclined to think it's not the ifi here but obviously I could be wrong




I am usin it as this, tidal hi-fi or spotify on lg v30 then otg cable then blue usb cable came with idsd black and at end the micro idsd black. I have tried many otg cable and also removed the blue usb cable didnt help. though I have a jds c5d labs and it dont do this pops. Though listening on pc with my micro idsd black makes no pops!


----------



## Vitaly2017

dharma said:


> Hi! Are You using computer/device USB3 port ('blue'-marked)? If yes, then try older standard USB2 port or/and update USB drivers (to latest possible version).
> [It worked for me, with micro idsd]



I am using mine with an android lg v30 on the go. on pc I experienced no pops weird.
I reinstalled a firmware on micro idsd black ( 5.2B )  now making new tests to see what going to happen.


----------



## Vitaly2017

I am wondering if something like an idefender3.0 or isilencer3.0 would help here? maybe its my lg type c usb has dirty signal output  ???


----------



## hemipowered007

Well on that I'm not going to be able to help any further as I almost never use otg from my phone (s7 active) to the black label.  When I have though it worked great no pops.


----------



## thebkt

Check your phone's settings, perhaps it has something to do with the fancy DAC/amp the LG phones have. If you disable the 'dual DAC' (or whatever it's actually called), perhaps it'll resolve the device specific issue.

I connect my idsd via otg cable to my Nexus 5 and have zero issues beyond the cheap cable sometimes wiggling loose and dropping audio.


----------



## Vitaly2017

I can confirm that on my pc I hear no pops or cracks randomly, its from my phone the lg v30 has something with that usb c thing. gota dig deep into this.  and the quad dac is off when u dont plug anything into the jack.


----------



## Zowie1 (Feb 1, 2018)

Has anyone tried both the Sony PHA-3 and IFI Micro with iPod classic? I know that you can only use Micro with iPod classic through the line out connection but I'm still interested to hear how it compares in SQ to PHA-3 with the balanced mode. I know the Micro is better than the PHA-3 pretty much in every category but I would be mostly using it with my cd-player and iPod Classic and only occasionally as a desktop amp (only when I'm travelling etc.) I already own a PHA-3 and was wondering if getting the Micro would make any sense for my use (I mainly listen to music with Hifiman HE-560).


----------



## willywill

Zowie1 said:


> Has anyone tried both the Sony PHA-3 and IFI Micro with iPod classic? I know that you can only use Micro with iPod classic through the line out connection but I'm still interested to hear how it compares in SQ to PHA-3 with the balanced mode. I know the Micro is better than the PHA-3 pretty much in every category but I would be mostly using it with my cd-player and iPod Classic and only occasionally as a desktop amp (only when I'm travelling etc.) I already own a PHA-3 and was wondering if getting the Micro would make any sense for my use (I mainly listen to music with Hifiman HE-560).


I have both and I can tell you the Ifi Micro doesn't have the smoothness of the PHA-3. Yes the Ifi Micro can do more while costing a lot less but there something special about the PHA-3. As a headphone DAC/AMP the PHA-3 kick the Ifi to the curve, because the PHA-3 I mostly use the Ifi Micro in my 2 channel system as a DAC.


----------



## Zowie1 (Feb 2, 2018)

willywill said:


> I have both and I can tell you the Ifi Micro doesn't have the smoothness of the PHA-3. Yes the Ifi Micro can do more while costing a lot less but there something special about the PHA-3. As a headphone DAC/AMP the PHA-3 kick the Ifi to the curve, because the PHA-3 I mostly use the Ifi Micro in my 2 channel system as a DAC.



Thanks for your answer! Could someone tell me have they got a decend sound from a portable cd-player with the Micro through the 3,5 mm line-out connection? PHA-3 single-ended with Hifiman HE-560 is almost useless for that purpose even with both the volumes from the amp and the cd-player turned as loud as possible. I still like PHA-3 with iPod Classic while using a balanced mode though.


----------



## goldsmith83 (Feb 25, 2018)

I've had a little issue with my iDSD Micro BL. I left the device turned on mistakenly for some few days up till the battery fully drained off. I was hard put to reawaken it. When I turned the iDSD on, plugged into my PC, the light would start flickering, alternating green and red light. Then when I tried to play music back with the iDSD on USB mode on the PC, the playback would stop and the light turn off after a few minutes; the system would not recognize the IDSD as if it would have been unplugged. It seems the iDSD can't work when the battery is drained off even on USB mode, which is strange. Now I having it getting a full recharge. Any comments?


----------



## EJ102

goldsmith83 said:


> I've had a little issue with my iDSD Micro BL. I left the device turned on mistakenly for some few days up till the battery fully drained off. I was hard put to reawaken it. When I turned the iDSD on, plugged into my PC, the light would start flickering, alternating green and red light. Then when I tried to play music back with the iDSD on USB mode on the PC, the playback would stop and the light turn off after a few minutes; the system would not recognize the IDSD as if it would have been unplugged. It seems the iDSD can't work when the battery is drained off even on USB mode, which is strange. Now I having it getting a full recharge. Any comments?


I have had the same issue actually.


----------



## hemipowered007

Odd issues. My bl is on its way back to me since the person I sold it to said it wouldn't work on usb. I'll test it when I get back, but believe him. Wondering what could have happened, since it still charges, but 2 pcs would not recognize it. I had used it shortly before selling it no issue. I'm not trying to send it into ifi since they'll be a charge considering I'm the 2nd owner. If the usb doesn't work, it's not a big deal for me since all my music is on my fiio x3i anyways, and I can use it as a transport like I've done all along. BUT, would like to ensure it's fully functional should I decide to sell it again, which at this point I dont.. any ideas how the usb dac portion would fail out of nowhere, but, electronics are electronics and fail sometimes. Just thinking ahead to see if anyone has had this issue prior with usb, I believe he stated it will say "usb malfunctioning" when plugged into 2 different pcs. I think I had it on the most current firmware but unsure. Should have it back in a few days, delayed because of weather for now. Honestly kind of glad to get it back, I missed it.


----------



## hamachan

goldsmith83 said:


> I've had a little issue with my iDSD Micro BL. I left the device turned on mistakenly for some few days up till the battery fully drained off. I was hard put to reawaken it. When I turned the iDSD on, plugged into my PC, the light would start flickering, alternating green and red light. Then when I tried to play music back with the iDSD on USB mode on the PC, the playback would stop and the light turn off after a few minutes; the system would not recognize the IDSD as if it would have been unplugged. It seems the iDSD can't work when the battery is drained off even on USB mode, which is strange. Now I having it getting a full recharge. Any comments?


I surprised no one has responded.  Try plugging into your PC "before" turn the iDSD on to operate as bus power mode.


----------



## thebkt

goldsmith83 said:


> I've had a little issue with my iDSD Micro BL. I left the device turned on mistakenly for some few days up till the battery fully drained off. I was hard put to reawaken it. When I turned the iDSD on, plugged into my PC, the light would start flickering, alternating green and red light. Then when I tried to play music back with the iDSD on USB mode on the PC, the playback would stop and the light turn off after a few minutes; the system would not recognize the IDSD as if it would have been unplugged. It seems the iDSD can't work when the battery is drained off even on USB mode, which is strange. Now I having it getting a full recharge. Any comments?


Probably a good idea to give it some charge first before trying to play anything.  There are some variables at play that might affect whether or not you'll be able to play anything at lower battery levels.  For example, using eco power mode will leave you with additional power from the USB connection to charge the iDSD.  However, if you're using Normal/Turbo, you'll drain the battery even if plugged in via USB.  

Have you had any luck getting to work again in the last few days?


----------



## goldsmith83

hamachan said:


> I surprised no one has responded.  Try plugging into your PC "before" turn the iDSD on to operate as bus power mode.



So I did. I tried to play back in both modes with the same result. I knew I had to do that because I read the iFi cardboard manual from the box.



thebkt said:


> Probably a good idea to give it some charge first before trying to play anything.  There are some variables at play that might affect whether or not you'll be able to play anything at lower battery levels.  For example, using eco power mode will leave you with additional power from the USB connection to charge the iDSD.  However, if you're using Normal/Turbo, you'll drain the battery even if plugged in via USB.
> 
> Have you had any luck getting to work again in the last few days?



I fully charged the iDSD before first use but I had only used it as an amp with a dap. When I was going to play music back with the iDSD connected to my PC I realised that the battery was drained off because I forgot to turn it off after the last listening and given that I was eager to try the iDSD dac, I supposed the device would work with the computer-supplied power.
I agree what you say. I was using it in Turbo. I've had no time to test it since the iDSD charging takes so long and personal issues have kept me away from my PC. When the charging finishes I'll try it and tell you.


----------



## thebkt

goldsmith83 said:


> I agree what you say. I was using it in Turbo. I've had no time to test it since the iDSD charging takes so long and personal issues have kept me away from my PC. When the charging finishes I'll try it and tell you.


In that case, I think you'll be fine!  I leave my BL on all day at work in Eco mode and then use it on the commute home and casually on the weekend.  I've never had to dedicate any time to charging it since I got it a few months back.  Given you're using Turbo mode, it makes sense that without some charge reserve it wouldn't be able to operate as Turbo will draw more than it receives from USB power.  

On another note, unless you're driving a HE6 -- or the like -- I can't imagine what would need Turbo.  I found that I barely needed Normal mode to drive my HE560's and have almost no volume control if I use Normal with my Aeons (though they do sound fuller in normal).  No idea what you're gear is of course, but man... I struggle to think of when I would ever use Turbo.


----------



## Yethal

thebkt said:


> In that case, I think you'll be fine!  I leave my BL on all day at work in Eco mode and then use it on the commute home and casually on the weekend.  I've never had to dedicate any time to charging it since I got it a few months back.  Given you're using Turbo mode, it makes sense that without some charge reserve it wouldn't be able to operate as Turbo will draw more than it receives from USB power.
> 
> On another note, unless you're driving a HE6 -- or the like -- I can't imagine what would need Turbo.  I found that I barely needed Normal mode to drive my HE560's and have almost no volume control if I use Normal with my Aeons (though they do sound fuller in normal).  No idea what you're gear is of course, but man... I struggle to think of when I would ever use Turbo.


Turbo is great if you want to push bass so low it's not even audible. When I listen to No Love by Death Grips on Normal I can hear very noticeable distortion in the bass. On Turbo my entire skull is shaking (and distortion is gone)


----------



## goldsmith83

thebkt said:


> In that case, I think you'll be fine!  I leave my BL on all day at work in Eco mode and then use it on the commute home and casually on the weekend.  I've never had to dedicate any time to charging it since I got it a few months back.  Given you're using Turbo mode, it makes sense that without some charge reserve it wouldn't be able to operate as Turbo will draw more than it receives from USB power.
> 
> On another note, unless you're driving a HE6 -- or the like -- I can't imagine what would need Turbo.  I found that I barely needed Normal mode to drive my HE560's and have almost no volume control if I use Normal with my Aeons (though they do sound fuller in normal).  No idea what you're gear is of course, but man... I struggle to think of when I would ever use Turbo.



Just for testing purposes, listening to MDR Z7. The volume knob wasn't past 10 o'clock. The iDSD actually turned off before I realized it was on turbo. Btw I'm looking for new headphones for the iDSD. Some people have recommended me the Aeon Flow. I wonder whether they perfom well rock and heavy metal.



Yethal said:


> Turbo is great if you want to push bass so low it's not even audible. When I listen to No Love by Death Grips on Normal I can hear very noticeable distortion in the bass. On Turbo my entire skull is shaking (and distortion is gone)



I did notice the bass is crazy on turbo.


----------



## thebkt

goldsmith83 said:


> Btw I'm looking for new headphones for the iDSD. Some people have recommended me the Aeon Flow. I wonder whether they perfom well rock and heavy metal.


They do!  You also have the advantage of the iDSD's bass boost for some tracks that might lack the desired punch.  I've noticed with my Aeon's that the bass _is _there, but it might not be prominent for some tastes.


----------



## goldsmith83

thebkt said:


> They do!  You also have the advantage of the iDSD's bass boost for some tracks that might lack the desired punch.  I've noticed with my Aeon's that the bass _is _there, but it might not be prominent for some tastes.



Yours are the open backs?


----------



## thebkt

Nah, closed. In fact I've grown to prefer them with the idsd over my home set up. I imagine the burr brown dac in the idsd adds that extra little bit of line that makes cymbals and crunchy guitars sing.


----------



## goldsmith83

I prefer the closed backs too. I'm looking forward to get a pair of cans as great as the iDSD is.


----------



## EJ102

I use mine with the JVC HA-SZ2000's on Turbo. I notice if i use the iDSD BL for too long, it will get hot and shut off...


----------



## frogmeat69

You guys are either deaf.... or are going to be, lol. Don't think I ever needed to use the turbo on my Silver iDSD.


----------



## hemipowered007

frogmeat69 said:


> You guys are either deaf.... or are going to be, lol. Don't think I ever needed to use the turbo on my Silver iDSD.



My he4 sounds better using turbo, but that's it. Rarely use it on the bl by itself but sure uses the extra power turbo offers. And I listen fairly low volumes the last few years.


----------



## Jearly410

I use turbo with my Atticus. Otherwise the low end is too boomy.


----------



## hemipowered007

Jearly410 said:


> I use turbo with my Atticus. Otherwise the low end is too boomy.



This. That's exactly why I use my sx1010 with the ifi as just a dac. Really really makes a difference on the low end. But the ifi on its own fares just fine with the he4, it's just, the 1010 is more gooder


----------



## iFi audio

Let us just leave this here....

The Sound & Vision Bristol Show 2018 is in the past now. Things happened there, oh yes they did!

 

Yup, that's our full Pro rig on the Pro iRack. 

 

Some people were impressed more than just 'mildly'....

 

And we had someone (aka The Cap'n)  in there to answer the most technical questions there are.


----------



## technobear

Nice to finally meet Thorsten. Top bloke.

The Pro iDSD sounded mighty fine at least in so far as the very noisy show conditions would allow.

The xDSD also sounded mighty fine. I think that one will be popular.


----------



## gLer

technobear said:


> Nice to finally meet Thorsten. Top bloke.
> 
> The Pro iDSD sounded mighty fine at least in so far as the very noisy show conditions would allow.
> 
> The xDSD also sounded mighty fine. I think that one will be popular.


What's the xDSD???


----------



## goldsmith83

frogmeat69 said:


> You guys are either deaf.... or are going to be, lol. Don't think I ever needed to use the turbo on my Silver iDSD.



It's all up to the volume. You can go deaf on Normal as well if you turn it up too much. But I agree that Normal is enough most times.


----------



## thebkt

frogmeat69 said:


> You guys are either deaf.... or are going to be, lol. Don't think I ever needed to use the turbo on my Silver iDSD.


That's why I was surprised.  With the Aeon's I can hardly hit 9 o'clock on normal.  Even the 560's, which can be a pain to drive don't go past 11-12 o'clock on eco.


----------



## technobear

gLer said:


> What's the xDSD???


It's a new battery portable DAC/amp with Bluetooth and in a very sexy case. Coming soon!


----------



## Yethal

technobear said:


> Nice to finally meet Thorsten. Top bloke.
> 
> The Pro iDSD sounded mighty fine at least in so far as the very noisy show conditions would allow.
> 
> The xDSD also sounded mighty fine. I think that one will be popular.


Had a listen to xDSD at the last year's AVS. iFi is going to sell a ton of those. My only gripe is the USB port still being recessed USB A male.


----------



## gLer

Yethal said:


> Had a listen to xDSD at the last year's AVS. iFi is going to sell a ton of those. My only gripe is the USB port still being recessed USB A male.


Not a single Google hit or even Head-Fi mention other than the one above. How does something like this that’s obviously been publicly demoed stay under the radar?


----------



## Yethal

gLer said:


> Not a single Google hit or even Head-Fi mention other than the one above. How does something like this that’s obviously been publicly demoed stay under the radar?


iFi are conspiracy pros.


----------



## hamachan (Feb 28, 2018)

gLer said:


> Not a single Google hit or even Head-Fi mention other than the one above. How does something like this that’s obviously been publicly demoed stay under the radar?


Bit old and the prototype of xDSD might be updated though.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...page-26-post-386.864211/page-15#post-13841236
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread.702376/page-118#post-13833396


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> Nice to finally meet Thorsten. Top bloke.
> 
> The Pro iDSD sounded mighty fine at least in so far as the very noisy show conditions would allow.
> 
> The xDSD also sounded mighty fine. I think that one will be popular.



Many thanks technobear for your lovely comments.

I am glad that you enjoyed our products. Not long to go before the launch!

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## iFi audio

gLer said:


> What's the xDSD???



Hi gLer


We can give you just a taster of this product at the moment!
In terms of attributes, the xDSD is similar to the original micro iDSD, though it’s more advanced.
With a pure analogue volume control retaining full-resolution at all volume levels, the xDSD is a major sonic step up for all smartphones, digital audio players and computers. Its selectable 3D+ and XBass+ functions will bring both sensitivity and power to the careful listener.
It has pulled off the task of being ultra-portable and wireless while supporting high-resolution formats, including MQA, and delivering 500mW of power per channel. By means of aptX HD and AAC, it brings hi-res streaming to Bluetooth.


More info as we get nearer the launch date in April.  Watch the forums and our social media channels!

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## Liono (Mar 1, 2018)

Perhaps a dedicated thread is needed for the xDSD..?

I listened to the xDSD at the Bristol show last weekend and it sounded fantastic! Large difference between using the headphones on my Samsung S8 and then on the xDSD and that was just with a humble google play stream using xapt bluetooth. It'd be nice to compare to my Sony NW-ZX1 dedicated portable with my headphones. It's very neat looking unit with multiple inputs inc 3.5mm SPDIF input.


----------



## gLer

Liono said:


> Perhaps a dedicated thread is needed for the xDSD..?
> 
> I listened to the xDSD at the Bristol show last weekend and it sounded fantastic! Large difference between using the headphones on my Samsung S8 and then on the xDSD and that was just with a humble google play stream using xapt bluetooth. It'd be nice to compare to my Sony NW-ZX1 dedicated portable with my headphones. It's very neat looking unit with multiple inputs inc 3.5mm SPDIF input.


Is the xDSD meant to be an upgrade over the iDSD? Will it have the same superb dual chip dac and super powerful amp?


----------



## Liono

gLer said:


> Is the xDSD meant to be an upgrade over the iDSD? Will it have the same superb dual chip dac and super powerful amp?


I don't know, I'm not familiar with these line of products, but I'm sure I've read this has dual burr brown DACs, which from my experience in other products sound fantastic. Perhaps others can confirm your queries.


----------



## iFi audio

gLer said:


> Is the xDSD meant to be an upgrade over the iDSD? Will it have the same superb dual chip dac and super powerful amp?



Hi gLer

The xDSD is best considered a "super nano" with extra input options (BT, SPDIF, Optical), a more powerful headphone Amplifier with much greater dynamic range, a new digitally controlled stepped attenuator operating in the analog domain as volume control, 3D-Matrix (Headphones only) and X-Bass and with a fundamentally re-designed user experience. It has a single BB DAC and is broadly equivalent to the iDAC 2 micro in terms of sound quality. It is not a replacement for the iDSD micro Black Label which remains in production and which remains our best sounding (trans) portable Unit.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## gLer

iFi audio said:


> Hi gLer
> 
> The xDSD is best considered a "super nano" with extra input options (BT, SPDIF, Optical), a more powerful headphone Amplifier with much greater dynamic range, a new digitally controlled stepped attenuator operating in the analog domain as volume control, 3D-Matrix (Headphones only) and X-Bass and with a fundamentally re-designed user experience. It has a single BB DAC and is broadly equivalent to the iDAC 2 micro in terms of sound quality. It is not a replacement for the iDSD micro Black Label which remains in production and which remains our best sounding (trans) portable Unit.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for that. I think I'll happily keep my (silver) Micro iDSD then


----------



## iFi audio

gLer said:


> Thanks so much for that. I think I'll happily keep my (silver) Micro iDSD then



Brilliant! Happy to hear this gLer.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## iFi audio

Liono said:


> Perhaps a dedicated thread is needed for the xDSD..?
> 
> I listened to the xDSD at the Bristol show last weekend and it sounded fantastic! Large difference between using the headphones on my Samsung S8 and then on the xDSD and that was just with a humble google play stream using xapt bluetooth. It'd be nice to compare to my Sony NW-ZX1 dedicated portable with my headphones. It's very neat looking unit with multiple inputs inc 3.5mm SPDIF input.




Many thank Liono for your lovely comments. I am glad that you enjoyed the xDSD at the Bristol show.

Good idea about the xDSD having its own thread. We are working on it.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## Korabeu

TjPhysicist said:


> wow i didn't know about these...damn hope they come back soon.



More than one year after, the link doesn't even exist anymore.

LOL.


----------



## Yethal (Mar 2, 2018)

Best friends forever


----------



## cardeli22

Looks like a perfect match.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> Best friends forever



Looks fab Yethal!

Thank you.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## 397324 (Mar 4, 2018)

On my two week old iDSD Black I used the IE match for the first time and the button fell off. There is a tiny male part of the sliding switch (A lot smaller than I imagined would be used) that goes into the female part of the button. I managed to put it back, but it didn't feel secure in use.

I ended up putting a tiny amount of superglue on the end of a pin and inserted it into the female part of the button and it worked perfectly, luckily.


----------



## hemipowered007

Darren Cotter said:


> On my two week old iDSD Black I used the IE match for the first time and the button fell off. There is a tiny male part of the sliding switch that goes into the female part of the button. A lot smaller than I imagined would be used. I managed to put it back, but it didn't feel secure in use.
> 
> I ended up putting a tiny amount of superglue on the end of a pin and inserted it into the female part of the button and it worked perfectly, luckily.



That has happened to me like 3 times. Never wanted to use glue just in case o over did it and glued the slider stuck. Luckily every time it fell off I managed to find it. I wish it was designed a bit different, but, if I lose that part I'm sure ifi will be good about replacing it.


----------



## 397324 (Mar 4, 2018)

That's reassuring, I guess? I did think twice, but using the pin I managed to apply glue to only inside the female part of the button.

I've had an original and a Black before and they were both OK.


----------



## Yethal

Darren Cotter said:


> On my two week old iDSD Black I used the IE match for the first time and the button fell off. There is a tiny male part of the sliding switch (A lot smaller than I imagined would be used) that goes into the female part of the button. I managed to put it back, but it didn't feel secure in use.
> 
> I ended up putting a tiny amount of superglue on the end of a pin and inserted it into the female part of the button and it worked perfectly, luckily.


I just left it like that. It's still possible to operate the switch and you won't switch it by accident so win-win.


----------



## 397324

I thought about that as well and just putting the button in the box for safekeeping, as like you said, you can still operate the slider.


----------



## iFi audio

Liono said:


> Perhaps a dedicated thread is needed for the xDSD..?



That's a very good idea indeed!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/


----------



## HungryPanda (Mar 4, 2018)

A little late night listening


----------



## thebkt

Darren Cotter said:


> I thought about that as well and just putting the button in the box for safekeeping, as like you said, you can still operate the slider.


Yup, I knocked my Direct/Preamp button off by accident and decided to take both off and leave them in the box for safekeeping.  For the best given the switches had a tendency to be toggled when I was fitting my phone.  It sucked accidentally switching on IEMatch once the phone was fixed to the iDSD.


----------



## cardeli22

iFi audio said:


> That's a very good idea indeed!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/


That link leads to an error from the website.


----------



## iFi audio

cardeli22 said:


> That link leads to an error from the website.



It'll be back shortly, no worries.


----------



## mitchmalibu

Just saying, the MQA firmware just dropped : https://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
Surprised it went unnoticed


----------



## latios507

mitchmalibu said:


> Just saying, the MQA firmware just dropped : https://ifi-audio.com/micro-idsd-ifi-xmos-firmware/
> Surprised it went unnoticed



Lol if you hadn't mention it, I wouldn't have realized it xD


----------



## mitchmalibu (Mar 30, 2018)

The news post is a bit more comprehensive : https://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/mqa-firmware/
The trade off is that DSD512 and PCM 768 is lost on 5.30, but you can rollback on 5.2 if needed (but frankly I never came across these formats ...).
And I forgot to thank ifi for making such a great piece of hardware. Such a significant update on a 4 years old product is quite amazing.


----------



## latios507

Mever got my hands on DSD files so it's a great trade off I guess.

Dsd files are still rare. At most i can find is FLAC.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, you probably know already that our big MQA update is here already. We still have some aces left up in our sleeves, but for the sake of spreading the good word, we'll post our official release here as well:

*Extra Ordinary MQA Easter Egg*







*Introduction*

With Easter just around the corner, iFi audio has delivered an eagerly anticipated upgrade option as a very special Easter gift.

iFi first introduced MQA into its product mix with the nano iDSD Black Label in November 2017. Since then, iFi customers across the globe have been asking when this option would be available in other iFi products. The good news is that the latest improvements to the nano Black Label firmware version 5.30, ‘Cookies & Cream’, does just that.

*Mqa for all*

This latest firmware flavour not only adds the latest scoop to the nano iDSD Black Label sundae but it also dishes out MQA (Master Quality Authenticated) audio to the full range* of iFi audio products going back to 2013!






This ‘legacy’ update means that you can now download the MQA upgrade (PC and Mac) straight from the Support section of iFi’s website at no extra cost.

*Mqa optimised*

Firmware version 5.30 will optimise your device for MQA and can handle up to DSD256 and PCM384. Enjoy the MQA magic like never before.



*And Finally…*

None of the above would have been possible without the MQA software engineers who worked tirelessly alongside the iFi software team to make this unique opportunity happen. Thank you.

Go to https://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/mqa-firmware/ to enjoy your upgrade.

This firmware provides MQA rendering as this is the ideal solution for portable products and those with power considerations. This means the workload is shared between the host (the computer) and the client (the DAC). The listener will still enjoy full MQA experience.

For more information on MQA, go to http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/how-it-works

Legacy

*The only exception is the original iDAC.


----------



## iFi audio

*Easter ‘Bug Bounty’ Hunt.
Hunt 'em, wherever they are...
*

*
Introduction*

Our just announced firmware v5.30 is MQA capable and in one fell swoop, elevates legacy iFi products* with MQA capability for even more sonic enjoyment.

The MQA integration was a little difficult. It involved:

Totally replacing the customised core code
Re-apply tuning/core loading and
Further fine tuning the firmware for even more precise allocated resource use in order to allow us to support MQA _and_ 384kHz.

To bring all this to fruition required the combined efforts of the MQA and iFi software developers or a total of +1,000 programming hours to deliver firmware v5.30 (excluding testing on all iFi legacy units).

Notwithstanding, there _may_ still be one or two software bugs we have not quashed – hence we would like to involve you, the customer – in the Easter Bug Hunt.

*More details are to be found in this thread:*

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-easter-‘bug-bounty’-hunt.876057/


----------



## iFi audio

Oops, double!


----------



## vintinfinity (Apr 2, 2018)

Edit: curiously enough, it has started working now at 192kHz. Previously it was doing it even after a reboot. 

Disregard this* The new 5.3 MQA firmware stops the iPhone camera connection kit from outputting high res files from Onkyo HF player. It will read the 192kHz file but output 48. I think it also outputs 48 for 44.1 files too, but I’d have to double check.

Firmware 5.2A works fine for this use.

For MQA on the Micro Black Label, the light turns yellow for me when MQA is being preprocessed by Tidal and being fed to the DAC.

Can anyone else with a micro black label confirm MQA light color as yellow? I had read it should be magenta but ifi told me that was for the nano and other models could be yellow. It would show green if it wasn’t rendering the 96kHz file additionally.


----------



## harpo1

vintinfinity said:


> The new 5.3 MQA firmware stops the iPhone camera connection kit from outputting high res files from Onkyo HF player. It will read the 192kHz file but output 48. I think it also outputs 48 for 44.1 files too, but I’d have to double check.
> 
> Firmware 5.2A works fine for this use.
> 
> ...


That is the correct color for the micro iDSD BL.  Magenta is for the new nano, xDSD and Pro iDSD.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

iFi audio said:


> .


Didn't realize the micro iDSD was discontinued till now. That DAC hold so much memories for me. 

Perhaps it's time to save up for the BL.


----------



## rickyleelee

As op said, really nice customer service. Windows seems becoming easier to use when higher rates are involved. Tidal runing MQA seems better on pc than mac. I may change.


----------



## iFi audio

harpo1 said:


> That is the correct color for the micro iDSD BL.  Magenta is for the new nano, xDSD and Pro iDSD.



That is correct, yes.


----------



## X-Frame

Hi everyone!

I today placed an order for a Micro Black Label to use with my iPhone and MacBook.

I currently have the larger USB3 to Lightning Camera Adapter. Looking at pictures of the side of the Micro, the larger USB3 end won’t fit. Do I need to grab the skinnier USB2 version of the Camera Adapter to use with my iPhone?

Thank you!


----------



## vintinfinity

X-Frame said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I today placed an order for a Micro Black Label to use with my iPhone and MacBook.
> 
> ...



The appropriate adapters come in the box. The Camera Connection kit has a standard female USB type A port. You plug the blue cable that comes with the iFi into it and the female end into the DAC. It also comes with a female plug to female type B cable so you can use your own A-B cable. Certain long usb 2.0 cables didn’t work for me, but a short usb 3.0 cable did.


----------



## technobear

X-Frame said:


> Looking at pictures of the side of the Micro, the larger USB3 end won’t fit.


The USB port on the side of the micro is used for charging a phone when the iDSD is turned OFF.

The port you need is on the rear and is a USB Type A male. A standard lightning to USB Type A female should fit straight in.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> The USB port on the side of the micro is used for charging a phone when the iDSD is turned OFF.
> 
> The port you need is on the rear and is a USB Type A male. A standard lightning to USB Type A female should fit straight in.



That is correct.


----------



## X-Frame

Just got my iDSD Micro BL! Using with my LCD-2 Classic's I am very surprised how powerful this is. With it on Normal Mode, I can only listen at 9 o'clock. I need to drop it to Eco Mode so that I can get it to about 10-11-ish. Very amazed!

Apologies if this has been asked and answered already in this 557 page thread, but is there any difference in the power going to my headphones if I am on Eco Mode with IEMatch Off (which gets me to 10-11 o'clock) versus going to Normal Mode w/ IEMatch set to High Sensitivity (also gets me to 10-11 o'clock). I am trying to find the combination that would provide the most power yet give me the biggest amount of volume control, if that makes any sense. Thank you!


----------



## mandrake50

Headphone sensitivity is fixed. Meaning that the ratio of SPL to power input never changes. At the same volume level you will have to have the same exact power going into the headphone. The volume control position is not relevant. Changing the position for the same SPL does not change the power out.
But if you are running at 10 to 11 o'clock, for me that is pretty ideal. You have enough of the travel to get past any low level channel imbalance and still have plenty of adjustment on the high end available.
If you can't hear any difference, I would suggest that you just pick one and don't worry.


----------



## X-Frame

mandrake50 said:


> Headphone sensitivity is fixed. Meaning that the ratio of SPL to power input never changes. At the same volume level you will have to have the same exact power going into the headphone. The volume control position is not relevant. Changing the position for the same SPL does not change the power out.
> But if you are running at 10 to 11 o'clock, for me that is pretty ideal. You have enough of the travel to get past any low level channel imbalance and still have plenty of adjustment on the high end available.
> If you can't hear any difference, I would suggest that you just pick one and don't worry.



I appreciate the help and explanation, thank you! I don't notice any difference On Eco at 11 o'clock versus Normal at 9 o'clock.


----------



## iFi audio

X-Frame said:


> Just got my iDSD Micro BL! Using with my LCD-2 Classic's I am very surprised how powerful this is. With it on Normal Mode, I can only listen at 9 o'clock. I need to drop it to Eco Mode so that I can get it to about 10-11-ish. Very amazed!
> 
> Apologies if this has been asked and answered already in this 557 page thread, but is there any difference in the power going to my headphones if I am on Eco Mode with IEMatch Off (which gets me to 10-11 o'clock) versus going to Normal Mode w/ IEMatch set to High Sensitivity (also gets me to 10-11 o'clock). I am trying to find the combination that would provide the most power yet give me the biggest amount of volume control, if that makes any sense. Thank you!



The usable range should be somewhere between 11 - 15 o'clock for normal listening levels. Please feel free to tinker with your settings to end up somewhere in this range and you're good!


----------



## mandrake50

iFi audio said:


> The usable range should be somewhere between 11 - 15 o'clock for normal listening levels. Please feel free to tinker with your settings to end up somewhere in this range and you're good!


 You are the absolute expert here, but does that mean 10 O'clock is not good? I run mine from 9 to 11 quite often, this in ECO mode. No IEM compensation. It all depends on the level of the signal coming out of my PC.
Should I use digital volume control from the PC (Bit loss ?) to drop input down so that I can run the analog control higher?
I am willing to try, I just have not thought the trade off worth it. Your thoughts?


----------



## iFi audio

mandrake50 said:


> You are the absolute expert here, but does that mean 10 O'clock is not good? I run mine from 9 to 11 quite often, this in ECO mode.



This should give you a reasonable range of adjustment. 



mandrake50 said:


> It all depends on the level of the signal coming out of my PC.



Generally speaking, the level should not change much. You need to check if the volume control is set correctly, or better, WASAPI exclusive mode is used for the audio interface (it depends on playback application).



mandrake50 said:


> Should I use digital volume control from the PC (Bit loss ?) to drop input down so that I can run the analog control higher?



No, this is not recommended. In your case eco mode is fine, it seems you prefer slightly lower levels.

The LCD-2 is around 110dB/1V (see innerfidelity measurements), so in eco mode with the volume maxed out the loudest peaks will be around 116dB and the average level depending how "loud" the music is mastered, usually between 96dB average and 110dB average, which is indeed quite loud.

With the volume control at 12 o'clock, the loudest peaks would be up to 98dB with average SPL for music somewhere around 78dB to 92dB. At 9-10 o'clock it is even quieter, but that is fine.

You can try combining eco mode with the first level of iEMatch to get a bit more usable volume control range for your personal needs.


----------



## mandrake50

When I use Foobar, I do the setting that you recommend. Even at that, and with ReplayGain, there is significant differences in the sound level. When using several of the different online sources, for instance YouTube, they are all over the place. On some I have to reduce the Windows volume significantly just to keep my BL out of the area where channel imbalance is a problem. With other material I can run the Windows volume wide open and the BL at 11 O' Clock.  Anyway, I get what you are saying and thank you for the feedback.


----------



## iFi audio

mandrake50 said:


> When I use Foobar, I do the setting that you recommend. Even at that, and with ReplayGain, there is significant differences in the sound level. When using several of the different online sources, for instance YouTube, they are all over the place.



You may want to check your replaygain settings. As a rule, since replaygain operates as digital volume control, we would advise against its use if sound quality is of concern.

Sources like Youtube generally have internally their take replaygain applied, they will likely tend to be "louder" than unprocessed audio. Different sources have different "normalization" reference levels.

A per application use of the volume control in "loud" applications should rain in hot sources to match normal unprocessed audio. As providers like youtube generally use fairly low-grade compressed audio the loss in sound quality is unlikely to be of much concern.



mandrake50 said:


> On some I have to reduce the Windows volume significantly just to keep my BL out of the area where channel imbalance is a problem



If you are already in Eco mode, just kick iEMatch into the first level and you should be fine.


----------



## thebkt

I've recently started using iematch for both my Aeons and Clears. I'm guessing normal mode has more current, as it sounds fuller than eco with the Aeons, but leaves little to no volume control. Iematch resolved this and seems to sound fine?


----------



## Yethal

thebkt said:


> I've recently started using iematch for both my Aeons and Clears. I'm guessing normal mode has more current, as it sounds fuller than eco with the Aeons, but leaves little to no volume control. Iematch resolved this and seems to sound fine?


Either you have bat hearing or I'm going deaf. I also use Clears with iDSD and I listen on Normal mode with volume control between 11 and 12 o'clock.


----------



## thebkt

Yethal said:


> Either you have bat hearing or I'm going deaf. I also use Clears with iDSD and I listen on Normal mode with volume control between 11 and 12 o'clock.


My hearing's fine.  Clears on normal are more than loud enough at 9 o'clock, just above where my BL gets imbalanced.  eco + iematch with the clears means I run it around 11-12 o'clock to get nice and loud.

There's definitely other factors at play though.  When I'm using my Clears with the BL it's generally as I'm winding down for the night, so the volume's definitely lower than I have it when working or gaming or whatever else earlier in the night.


----------



## cardeli22

thebkt said:


> My hearing's fine.  Clears on normal are more than loud enough at 9 o'clock, just above where my BL gets imbalanced.  eco + iematch with the clears means I run it around 11-12 o'clock to get nice and loud.
> 
> There's definitely other factors at play though.  When I'm using my Clears with the BL it's generally as I'm winding down for the night, so the volume's definitely lower than I have it when working or gaming or whatever else earlier in the night.


How do you like the Clears and the BL pairing? I have the Beyerdynamic dt 1990s and was thinking of the getting the Clears or the MD Elex.


----------



## Yethal

cardeli22 said:


> How do you like the Clears and the BL pairing? I have the Beyerdynamic dt 1990s and was thinking of the getting the Clears or the MD Elex.


Using that combo right now. Can't really find any faults there, detail resolution and clarity were just right, the soundstage is rather small (the same as Elear and Utopia) and the overall tonal balance is pretty neutral. They do get better when powered by a beefier (preferably balanced) amp which is why I'm looking for one but iDSD itself drives them easily.


----------



## cardeli22

Yethal said:


> Using that combo right now. Can't really find any faults there, detail resolution and clarity were just right, the soundstage is rather small (the same as Elear and Utopia) and the overall tonal balance is pretty neutral. They do get better when powered by a beefier (preferably balanced) amp which is why I'm looking for one but iDSD itself drives them easily.


Awesome.


----------



## frogmeat69

Installed the new firmware, seems to work fine with Tidal, but now when playing songs in DSD format on Foobar, if I pause or stop the song, I get a popping type sound, any ideas??? Doesn't do it when playing FLAC, just DSD type files.
Original silver model, btw.


----------



## iFi audio

frogmeat69 said:


> Installed the new firmware, seems to work fine with Tidal, but now when playing songs in DSD format on Foobar, if I pause or stop the song, I get a popping type sound, any ideas??? Doesn't do it when playing FLAC, just DSD type files.
> Original silver model, btw.



It's highly likely that this is software related, namely your DSD settings in Foobar2000.


----------



## iFi audio

Also folks, not sure if you've seen it, but there's a nice Axpona impressions thread and we're in there too!

Please take a look here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/axpona-2018-impressions.877121/#post-14175040


----------



## sausages (Apr 21, 2018)

Just picked up one of these (for desktop use actually) and really enjoying it so far. Quick question: I leave my headphones plugged in, and is it normal for there to be 1-2 popping noises right upon turning on the amplifier? It's probably me being paranoid but I'm a tiny bit afraid it's some kind of current (DC?) that isn't good for headphones - my Violectric seems to have a relay while powering on that seems to prevent this phenomenon.


----------



## vintinfinity

sausages said:


> Just picked up one of these (for desktop use actually) and really enjoying it so far. Quick question: I leave my headphones plugged in, and is it normal for their to be 1-2 popping noises when turning on the amplifier? It's probably me being paranoid but I'm a tiny bit afraid it's some kind of current (DC?) that isn't good for headphones - my Violectric seems to have a relay while powering on that prevents such noises.



I was wondering the same thing. I figured it was normal since I got mine 2 months old in mint condition but wasn’t sure. This kind of reassures me.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sausages said:


> Just picked up one of these (for desktop use actually) and really enjoying it so far. Quick question: I leave my headphones plugged in, and is it normal for there to be 1-2 popping noises right upon turning on the amplifier? It's probably me being paranoid but I'm a tiny bit afraid it's some kind of current (DC?) that isn't good for headphones - my Violectric seems to have a relay while powering on that seems to prevent this phenomenon.



Doesn't the relay make the popping sounds? 

By turning it on, you mean turning the volume wheel on? 

I think it is best to turn it slowly, wait for the volume to kick in, then turn it to listening volume


----------



## sausages (Apr 21, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> Doesn't the relay make the popping sounds?
> 
> By turning it on, you mean turning the volume wheel on?
> 
> I think it is best to turn it slowly, wait for the volume to kick in, then turn it to listening volume



The relay itself of course makes a noise but I meant to say that headphones are silent when it switches. The popping from the ifi is independent of where the volume knob is (i.e. it's the same sound level regardless of where volume is set when it happens).


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I think you can also turn on the amp, leave it at 0 volume (turn it on and try to turn the knob down as much as possible without turning it off?) then plug the headphones in. I’ve heard the pop on other amp/DAC. Guess it comes from the DAC turning on after the amp is on.


----------



## Amalek6

Jearly410 said:


> Just hooked up powered speakers + powered sub to the pre-amp of the black label and I'm blown away by how much control I have over the volume level as well as the xbass feature. Turning it on sends kick drums through my chest, without distorting the sound! The black label is seriously my best investment in this hobby.


  Yeah same here ! really incredible !  It's a different ball game, if not even a different kind of sport ....  ( hooked them up on 2  Nubert nupro-A200 )


----------



## Satcher

Anyone know how to resolve this issue? My Micro has a distant and echoey sound caused by the in-line remote on my Klipsch X20i; when I press the pause/play button, the IEM sounds as it should.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Satcher said:


> Anyone know how to resolve this issue? My Micro has a distant and echoey sound caused by the in-line remote on my Klipsch X20i; when I press the pause/play button, the IEM sounds as it should.



Never heard of this issue, can you use another cable with it? 

Given what you said here, my first guess would be that the remote somehow connects to the ground for one of the connectors and this is causing some kind of interference


----------



## Yethal

Satcher said:


> Anyone know how to resolve this issue? My Micro has a distant and echoey sound caused by the in-line remote on my Klipsch X20i; when I press the pause/play button, the IEM sounds as it should.


Issue is caused by the fact that the iems use a 4 pin minijack plug. Try switching the 6.3mm adapter to a different one (that has a bigger ground contact inside)


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> Issue is caused by the fact that the iems use a 4 pin minijack plug. Try switching the 6.3mm adapter to a different one (that has a bigger ground contact inside)


----------



## Paradoxus

Does anyone have suggestions as to how to I can hook up my ifi micro stack - idsd black
, itube2, ican se - to both my headphones and active speakers permanently? 

I currently plug in my speakers to the headphone jack of the idsd black, while the preamp outs from the idsd black goes to my itube2 and then to the ican se. My headphones go into the ican se headphone jack. 

It is not my intention for the music to play through both my speakers and headphones at the same time. I just want a solution that does not involve plugging the wires in and out all the time. 

Any ideas?


----------



## technobear

Paradoxus said:


> Does anyone have suggestions as to how to I can hook up my ifi micro stack - idsd black
> , itube2, ican se - to both my headphones and active speakers permanently?
> 
> I currently plug in my speakers to the headphone jack of the idsd black, while the preamp outs from the idsd black goes to my itube2 and then to the ican se. My headphones go into the ican se headphone jack.
> ...


The iCAN SE has two inputs on the rear - RCA and 3.5mm. These are wired together so you can use the RCAs as input from the iTUBE2 and use the 3.5mm as output to the amp. When you want speakers only, just switch off the iCAN SE or turn the volume down.


----------



## Paradoxus

technobear said:


> The iCAN SE has two inputs on the rear - RCA and 3.5mm. These are wired together so you can use the RCAs as input from the iTUBE2 and use the 3.5mm as output to the amp. When you want speakers only, just switch off the iCAN SE or turn the volume down.



Thanks technobear. But i don't really understand a couple of things.

The iCAN SE has 2 inputs - that's correct. What do you mean when you say they are wired together? 
Does the 3.5mm input also double up as an output which I can connect to my speakers?


----------



## technobear

Paradoxus said:


> Thanks technobear. But i don't really understand a couple of things.
> 
> The iCAN SE has 2 inputs - that's correct. What do you mean when you say they are wired together?
> Does the 3.5mm input also double up as an output which I can connect to my speakers?


When I say wired together, I mean wired together.

They are the same input. There is only one input. How else can I put it?

It is exactly the same as using an RCA splitter cable, only neater.


----------



## Paradoxus

technobear said:


> When I say wired together, I mean wired together.
> 
> They are the same input. There is only one input. How else can I put it?
> 
> It is exactly the same as using an RCA splitter cable, only neater.



Wow thanks technobear! It works, am so silly to have not tried this before. ifi should consider putting a note somewhere on their website that the 3.5mm can double up as a "pre-out" or "line-out", am not sure what the technical phrase should be. 

I even considered purchasing a separate iDAC just for my speakers, but my problem is now solved. Thanks so much!


----------



## Zowie1 (May 15, 2018)

Has anyone paired their Micro iDSD with either Chord's Qutest or 2Qute? If you have, how were the results compared to just using Micro iDSD? My current chain goes like this: iDefender 3.0 > Mercury 3.0 cable > iPurifier2 > Micro iDSD BL > HE1000 with iSilencer 3.0 and ISO Regen added soon. I was wondering if adding a separate DAC would improve the sound even further.


----------



## iFi audio

Paradoxus said:


> I even considered purchasing a separate iDAC just for my speakers, but my problem is now solved. Thanks so much!



We're happy if you're happy!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Zowie1 said:


> Has anyone paired their Micro iDSD with either Chord's Qutest or 2Qute? If you have, how were the results compared to just using Micro iDSD? My current chain goes like this: iDefender 3.0 > Mercury 3.0 cable > iPurifier2 > Micro iDSD BL > HE1000 with iSilencer 3.0 and ISO Regen added soon. I was wondering if adding a separate DAC would improve the sound even further.


Isn’t a single micro iUSB3 better than all those accessories combined?


----------



## spw1880

Hi guys, ive always used my micro BL with my iphone using apple cck and it doesnt cause phone battery drain. Buy when i connect to my android via usb C it drains my phone battery. 

Just adking if anyone had found a way to work around this. 

Many Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

WilliamLeonhart said:


> Isn’t a single micro iUSB3 better than all those accessories combined?



Nope, all these items address different USB related issues. Only iPurifier2 woks very much alike iUSB3.0, both do similar things, but the latter is more effective. 



spw1880 said:


> Hi guys, ive always used my micro BL with my iphone using apple cck and it doesnt cause phone battery drain. Buy when i connect to my android via usb C it drains my phone battery.
> 
> Just adking if anyone had found a way to work around this.
> 
> Many Thanks



You probably tried this already but here goes: have you tried turning it on before making a  connection with your smartphone?


----------



## yoyorast10 (May 24, 2018)

nvm


----------



## yoyorast10

What is the best buffer setting? This or "Auto"? 

I'm getting stuttering issues using Musicbee and now trying to find a way to fix it..


----------



## frogmeat69

yoyorast10 said:


> What is the best buffer setting? This or "Auto"?
> 
> I'm getting stuttering issues using Musicbee and now trying to find a way to fix it..


I set mine to auto, it should choose the best buffer setting for you that way.


----------



## yoyorast10

frogmeat69 said:


> I set mine to auto, it should choose the best buffer setting for you that way.



That's what I thought, since iFi said in a blog post that it's the best setting, but it actually causes stuttering when the highest buffer size does not? Maybe I gotta test more, the stuttering happens occasionally.


----------



## kingk6673 (May 28, 2018)

Question on improving iFi Micro iDSD BL sound - how else could use the iSilencer3.0

Pardon if my question may have already been covered in the hundreds of comments and posts in the current thread.

I found that there was a noticeable improvement in the iDSD Micro BL sound details, separation and noise floor when I simultaneously put an iSilencer3.0 in the USB port on the micro BL and also in the two USB ports on the iFi USB 3.0.  Has anyone else tried other tweaks that you have found made a difference?  Thanks!

My system is Computer > Anticable USB > iFi Micro USB 3.0 > Pangea Split USB cable > iFi Micro BL > Anticable 6.2 RCA > Schiit Magni 3 > Cardas Clear Lite Headphone cable > Hifiman Edition X V2
Have a number of iFi 3.0 USB noise suppression on computer, vibrapod vibration dampening and other tweaks to enhance audio quality and noise floor. No snake oil stuff though!


----------



## EJ102

What would be the best setting for USB Streaming Mode?


----------



## kingk6673

I have found with my setup, Bit Perfect with MQA (Masters on Tidal) sounds the best.


----------



## iFi audio

kingk6673 said:


> No snake oil stuff though!



Indeed, we're as far away from it as possible!


----------



## hag6

Hi is anyone using Audeze LCD2C with the idsd v1. What are your impressions


----------



## iFi audio

spw1880 said:


> Hi guys, ive always used my micro BL with my iphone using apple cck and it doesnt cause phone battery drain. Buy when i connect to my android via usb C it drains my phone battery.
> 
> Just adking if anyone had found a way to work around this.
> 
> Many Thanks



Apple phones and earlier android phones limited the current on the external connection. The iDSD micro can detect this situation and will turn off charging. 

More recent android smartphones supply high current (500mA) on their external connections and the iDSD micro can no longer detect them as smartphones.

Please flash firmware 5.XB (disable sleep) with preference for 5.2B or 5.3B.


----------



## spw1880

iFi audio said:


> Nope, all these items address different USB related issues. Only iPurifier2 woks very much alike iUSB3.0, both do similar things, but the latter is more effective.
> 
> 
> You probably tried this already but here goes: have you tried turning it on before making a  connection with your smartphone?


Turning unit on before plugging into phone works..no more phone battery power draw..thanks so much.

Btw i was also wanting to ask if using idsd black Label as a dac and paired with the ican pro is a good combination for my full size cans for home listening. Or that it will be better sound wise to buy the idsd pro, as i ajve the budget to only buy either the idsd po or ican pro.

Thanks


----------



## kingk6673 (Jun 2, 2018)

WilliamLeonhart said:


> Isn’t a single micro iUSB3 better than all those accessories combined?



I have found that it is the combination of the things that I use the makes a difference up to a point. The iUSB is a great product, but as with any product has its strengths and capabilities.
Often a change or tweak does not produce an orders of magnitude difference, but incremental one.  You can reach a point of diminishing returns depending on what you want.

What I did was to experiment with incremental changes first.  The iUSB 3.0 is a great starting point with Isilencer.  If you have a system that is very revealing (details wise) then there may potentially be benefit to adding more into the chain like better interconnects, but this is more personal preference. 

Some observations I have:

Isilencer 3.0 -  in USB ports on computer and put in USB ports on iUSB 3.0 and iDSF Mico BL - definitely makes difference with my system
AC purifier and Ipurifier wall wart - makes a difference with my system since there is noise in the power lines where I live / work
I galvanic 3.0 - smoothed out the top end on the treble / high frequency sounds on my system and did make a difference


My system:
Computer > Anticable USB > Igalvanic 3.0 > Anticable USB > iFi Mico USB 3.0 > Pangea Split USB cable > iFi Mico BL > Anticable 6.2 RCA > Magni 3 > Hifiman Edition X V2

Also use a number of iFi 3.0 USB noise suppression, vibrapod vibration dampening and other tweaks to enhance audio quality and noise floor


----------



## kingk6673

spw1880 said:


> Turning unit on before plugging into phone works..no more phone battery power draw..thanks so much.
> 
> Btw i was also wanting to ask if using idsd black Label as a dac and paired with the ican pro is a good combination for my full size cans for home listening. Or that it will be better sound wise to buy the idsd pro, as i ajve the budget to only buy either the idsd po or ican pro.
> 
> Thanks



Just a thought, and I have been thinking about getting an Ican Pro.  I did get a Schiit Magni 3 and it pairs REALLY well with the iDSD Micro BL.  Not expensive and impressive sound for the cost. The detail and sound that I am able to get from the iDSD BL is fantastic with the Magni 3.  I am interested in eventually getting the Ican pro, but first want to see what the reviews and feedback are on the iDSD Pro Dac is first 

System:
Computer > Anticable USB > iGalvanic 3.0 > Anticable USB > iFi Mico USB 3.0 > Pangea Split USB cable > iFi Mico BL > Anticable 6.2 RCA > Magni 3 > Hifiman Edition X V2
Have a number of iFi 3.0 USB noise suppression, vibrapod vibration dampening and other tweaks to enhance audio quality and noise floor


----------



## iFi audio

spw1880 said:


> Btw i was also wanting to ask if using idsd black Label as a dac and paired with the ican pro is a good combination for my full size cans for home listening. Or that it will be better sound wise to buy the idsd pro, as i ajve the budget to only buy either the idsd po or ican pro.



iDSD BL paired with pro iCAN is a good setup if to your ears it sounds good. It surely will handle any headphones on the market. Though iDAC2 is a notch above iDSD BL as a source, but is a stationary product. 

Pro iDSD is the best headphone integrated we have and our state of the art stationary DAC, whereas iDSD BL is our state of the art portable device. To have them both and use one at home and the other on the go sounds like a solid plan. And once you feel the need to push things even higher, then you can add Pro iCAN to Pro iDSD.


----------



## HungryPanda

The iDSD Black label is the industry standard to beat. Great work guys


----------



## Yethal

@iFi audio why is your usb driver recognized as malware by 10 different AV engines on virustotal? This isa blocker for usage of your products in corporate offices.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> @iFi audio why is your usb driver recognized as malware by 10 different AV engines on virustotal? This isa blocker for usage of your products in corporate offices.



That's a false positive on a zip file.


----------



## Yethal

iFi audio said:


> That's a false positive on a zip file.


I assumed as much (wouldn't suspect you of knowingly infecting your customers). Would it be possible to repackage the driver so that it's not flagged? Currently I can't use my iDSD at work specifically because of this.


----------



## TheoS53

Yethal said:


> I assumed as much (wouldn't suspect you of knowingly infecting your customers). Would it be possible to repackage the driver so that it's not flagged? Currently I can't use my iDSD at work specifically because of this.



Out of curiosity, could you not download and unzip the file at home, then just install it on your work system via a flashdrive?


----------



## Yethal

TheoS53 said:


> Out of curiosity, could you not download and unzip the file at home, then just install it on your work system via a flashdrive?


USB drives are blocked on my work PC but I may have a workaround for that. I unzipped the .exe and ran a virus scan on the setup.exe file, number of av engines that flag it as malicious has dropped to two so we may be getting somewhere.


----------



## iFi audio

Yethal said:


> USB drives are blocked on my work PC but I may have a workaround for that. I unzipped the .exe and ran a virus scan on the setup.exe file, number of av engines that flag it as malicious has dropped to two so we may be getting somewhere.



The file's fine, there's no malware/virus in it and there never was. We write our own code. And if you need unzipped file, please just let us know via Support Ticket System: http://support.ifi-audio.com


----------



## Yethal

iFi audio said:


> The file's fine, there's no malware/virus in it and there never was. We write our own code. And if you need unzipped file, please just let us know via Support Ticket System: http://support.ifi-audio.com


I've already worked around that, turns out nothing prevents me from unzipping the file in a virtual machine and transferring it back to host via shared folder. Works like a charm now.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

iFi audio said:


> The file's fine, there's no malware/virus in it and there never was. *We write our own code*. And if you need unzipped file, please just let us know via Support Ticket System: http://support.ifi-audio.com


Kudos to that, from a former coder.


----------



## thisisnotaboutagirl

MLGrado said:


> *BACKGROUND*
> 
> 
> It was around February of 2014 when I first read of iFi while skimming the Head-fi forums. I was looking for a DSD capable DAC in the sub $500 range to replace the first generation Audioquest Dragonfly serving my desktop listening needs. There was only a handful of options at the time, and my interest in DSP free DSD playback further limited the choice. Actually, my choice was made for me. The iFi iDSD nano was the only DAC I could find that fulfilled this requirement in my price bracket. The only problem was I knew nothing about iFi, and I was concerned by the incredibly low price. Surely the raw sound quality would be compromised at this price point. Then again, at a mere $189 there was little risk, so with a 'What the heck?' attitude I ordered one. And wow. Wow. Wow again.
> ...


All these features and no buttons for playback controls. Ifi should do something about that.


----------



## frogmeat69

thisisnotaboutagirl said:


> All these features and no buttons for playback controls. Ifi should do something about that.


?


----------



## Yethal

thisisnotaboutagirl said:


> All these features and no buttons for playback controls. Ifi should do something about that.


If that's such an important feature to you then Fiio Q5 is the way to go


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 8, 2018)

thisisnotaboutagirl said:


> All these features and no buttons for playback controls. Ifi should do something about that.



We look into literally every option/feature there is and roll with what fits the most. Although we do our best, we can't make each individual in 100% happy.



frogmeat69 said:


> ?


The man would like to navigate through music via physical buttons on xDSD (which it doesn't have) rather than those available in his smartphone and we fully understand that need.


----------



## zdrvr

Just joining late to the micro iDSD wagon.

I was looking to a good reference DAC so searching in head-fi I got a good deal on a classic micro iDSD, I'm amazed by the sound quality, I'm currently using iem only at the time (Hidition NT6). 

Just a little issue with iEMatch switch feeling loose at High and Ultra position, but I'll be better using an external iEMatch adapter to overcome that.

Coming from a Opus#1 as my last reference micro iDSD was a great upgrade.


----------



## iFi audio

zdrvr said:


> Just joining late to the micro iDSD wagon.
> 
> I was looking to a good reference DAC so searching in head-fi I got a good deal on a classic micro iDSD, I'm amazed by the sound quality, I'm currently using iem only at the time (Hidition NT6).
> 
> ...



Cool, enjoy!


----------



## phthora

I have a bit of travel coming up, so I decided it was time to invest in a little protection for my favorite piece of gear when it's not on my desk or in my pocket (yes, actually _in_ my pocket). I opted for a Pelican 1060 case with the 1062 foam insert. You can see the results below.

For those unfamiliar with Pelican, they make cases in a huge variety of shapes and sizes and are known for the extreme protection they offer equipment. But, this isn't going to be a review for Pelican. I just want to share a few things that I wish I had known before ordering to save myself time researching this stuff.

1060 is the case model that best fits the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label _with _the cable. The DAC/amp sits far enough down in the foam to allow the cable to rest comfortably on top.
The 1062 foam block wedges into the case and the Black Label wedges into the foam so tightly that the DAC/amp is snug and securely in place even upside-down. No chance of my gear clunking around.
Prices for the foam on Amazon are insane, nearly as much as the case, but buying direct from Pelican or from smaller stores like Adorama is much cheaper. 

The perforation on the foam is vertical, but not horizontal. 

Take as little of the foam blocks out as possible for a tight fit.
I cut a thin bit of packing material I saved for the lid portion. That's just to preserve the stealth factor when the cable is in there. 

Put a length of cord or ribbon under the BL with the ends sticking up over it. This will give you something to pull on to more easily extract the BL from its from cozy nest. (Sorry, thought of this after I took the pics.)
I highly recommend this storage solution. Cost me a total of $35, all told, and it's worth every penny to know that my Black Label is protected from just about everything.


----------



## iFi audio

phthora said:


> I have a bit of travel coming up, so I decided it was time to invest in a little protection for my favorite piece of gear when it's not on my desk or in my pocket (yes, actually _in_ my pocket). I opted for a Pelican 1060 case with the 1062 foam insert. You can see the results below.
> 
> For those unfamiliar with Pelican, they make cases in a huge variety of shapes and sizes and are known for the extreme protection they offer equipment. But, this isn't going to be a review for Pelican. I just want to share a few things that I wish I had known before ordering to save myself time researching this stuff.
> 
> ...



It looks comfy and happy!


----------



## yoyorast10 (Jun 20, 2018)

nvm


----------



## blackyangell

Hi guys! I have a 1st gen. Micro iDSD (Silver), and I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm going to make some upgrade. I'm considering 2 options:
1. Upgrade to iDSD BL
2. Buy some good portable balanced AMP to pair with my current silver iDSD (want to try my 250ohms Beyers on balanced connection).

Any suggestions about these options, and how can I get a better sound? Maybe anybody used iDSD as a DAC with a standalone portable AMP? My budget is about $700-$800. Thanks!


----------



## kingk6673

blackyangell said:


> Hi guys! I have a 1st gen. Micro iDSD (Silver), and I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm going to make some upgrade. I'm considering 2 options:
> 1. Upgrade to iDSD BL
> 2. Buy some good portable balanced AMP to pair with my current silver iDSD (want to try my 250ohms Beyers on balanced connection).
> 
> Any suggestions about these options, and how can I get a better sound? Maybe anybody used iDSD as a DAC with a standalone portable AMP? My budget is about $700-$800. Thanks!



I have had both of these and I liked the silver iDSD but like the iDSD BL much more.    The details, micro details, music separation and all areas across the sound stage sound better to my ear.  The headphone amplifier included in the BL is quite good and almost as good as the ICANSE which I used to have, but replaced with Schiit Magni 3.  You could use the BL to do everything that you need and since the line out is *REALLY* good, can set this up to go to a dedicated headphone amp. Not sure if you will find a better DAC/AMP combo for the price that is portable. 

If looking for a desktop headphone amp that does not break the bank but punches WAY above its weight and which works really well with the iDSD BL, the Schiit Magni 3 at $99 sounds exceptional.  Is not portable, has wall wart and is small form factor but offers option at home / work /  other location to really show what the iDSD BL can really do!


----------



## CoffeeDog (Jul 1, 2018)

blackyangell said:


> Hi guys! I have a 1st gen. Micro iDSD (Silver), and I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm going to make some upgrade. I'm considering 2 options:
> 1. Upgrade to iDSD BL
> 2. Buy some good portable balanced AMP to pair with my current silver iDSD (want to try my 250ohms Beyers on balanced connection).
> 
> Any suggestions about these options, and how can I get a better sound? Maybe anybody used iDSD as a DAC with a standalone portable AMP? My budget is about $700-$800. Thanks!


Like KingK, I also have both the iDSD silver and the Black Label.  I was able to demo the BL during its tour and the improvement over the silver immediately apparent.  I then bought the BL when I caught one of the recurring sales at Adorama, a significant discount, and haven't looked back.  I can't say if the BL's improvements are due to the DAC, amp, or both, but I'm very happy with it.  Actually, since the BL sounded so much nicer than the silver (which is still a great unit!), I've been wondering about that Pro iDSD...  Good luck with your decision.


----------



## blackyangell

kingk6673, CoffeeDog - thanks a lot! I guess I just have to try BL now


----------



## EJ102

kingk6673 said:


> I have had both of these and I liked the silver iDSD but like the iDSD BL much more.    The details, micro details, music separation and all areas across the sound stage sound better to my ear.  The headphone amplifier included in the BL is quite good and almost as good as the ICANSE which I used to have, but replaced with Schiit Magni 3.  You could use the BL to do everything that you need and since the line out is *REALLY* good, can set this up to go to a dedicated headphone amp. Not sure if you will find a better DAC/AMP combo for the price that is portable.
> 
> If looking for a desktop headphone amp that does not break the bank but punches WAY above its weight and which works really well with the iDSD BL, the Schiit Magni 3 at $99 sounds exceptional.  Is not portable, has wall wart and is small form factor but offers option at home / work /  other location to really show what the iDSD BL can really do!


Just curious, why did you replace the ICAN SE with the Magni 3?


----------



## kingk6673 (Jul 1, 2018)

EJ102 said:


> Just curious, why did you replace the ICAN SE with the Magni 3?



Great question and happy to tell more about why.  I have been gradually building up my headphone system over the past few years, interconnect here, sound suppression tweak there, new headphones.  When I transitioned from the Hifiman 560 to the Edition X V2 I noticed that there was a big improvement.  My next thing I wanted to look at was a upgrade from the IcanSE headphone amplifier I had and I looked online.  I really wanted the Ican Pro, but I did not have the money so I decided to do some research.  I ran across a number of posts about headphone amplifiers, then saw the one on Masterswitch that listed the Schiit Magni 3 as number 1.  Above Firefies WA7???  Above Hafler HA75 and Brytson BHA-1???  This cannot be right since it is only $99.  So I did some research and there are a lot of impressive reviews.  The one that made me buy this was when on one of the threads on Head Fi the reviewer mentioned that the magni 3 hooked up to the Yagdrisl ($2300 dac from Schiit which is very well reviewed) sounded just like a magni 3 hooked up to a Yagdrisl.  What they were referring to is that it sounded almost as good as the Ragnarok ($1600 headphone amp which is a solid performer) and sounded really close to it.  Only difference was the degree of base slam and the Ragnarock was a bit more spacious sounding.  So I am thinking this is worth the money to try since maybe it will be more revealing that the IcanSE.  Boy is it!!!  The details, microdetails, sound stage, separation, every part of the audiopresentation is a big step up!  The magni 3 really does punch above it weight class and pairs really well with the iDSD BL.  The best part is I did not break the bank! 

Here is the system I have right now since I think that interconnects and other components in the sound chain really can effect what we hear:

Computer > Anticable Reference 3.1 USB > iFi Mico USB 3.0 > Anticable Reference 3.1 Split Y USB cable > iFi iDSD Mico BL > Anticable 6.2 RCA > Magni 3 > Cardas Clear Light heaphone cable > Hifiman Edition X V2

Have a number of iFi 3.0 USB noise suppression, vibrapod vibration dampening and other tweaks to enhance audio quality and noise floor


----------



## EJ102 (Jul 2, 2018)

kingk6673 said:


> Great question and happy to tell more about why.  I have been gradually building up my headphone system over the past few years, interconnect here, sound suppression tweak there, new headphones.  When I transitioned from the Hifiman 560 to the Edition X V2 I noticed that there was a big improvement.  My next thing I wanted to look at was a upgrade from the IcanSE headphone amplifier I had and I looked online.  I really wanted the Ican Pro, but I did not have the money so I decided to do some research.  I ran across a number of posts about headphone amplifiers, then saw the one on Masterswitch that listed the Schiit Magni 3 as number 1.  Above Firefies WA7???  Above Hafler HA75 and Brytson BHA-1???  This cannot be right since it is only $99.  So I did some research and there are a lot of impressive reviews.  The one that made me buy this was when on one of the threads on Head Fi the reviewer mentioned that the magni 3 hooked up to the Yagdrisl ($2300 dac from Schiit which is very well reviewed) sounded just like a magni 3 hooked up to a Yagdrisl.  What they were referring to is that it sounded almost as good as the Ragnarok ($1600 headphone amp which is a solid performer) and sounded really close to it.  Only difference was the degree of base slam and the Ragnarock was a bit more spacious sounding.  So I am thinking this is worth the money to try since maybe it will be more revealing that the IcanSE.  Boy is it!!!  The details, microdetails, sound stage, separation, every part of the audiopresentation is a big step up!  The magni 3 really does punch above it weight class and pairs really well with the iDSD BL.  The best part is I did not break the bank!
> 
> Here is the system I have right now since I think that interconnects and other components in the sound chain really can effect what we hear:
> 
> ...


So is the low end better on the Magni 3 compared to the iDSD Black Label? I'm a basshead


----------



## HungryPanda

The iDSD BL has a bass boost switch............


----------



## iFi audio

HungryPanda said:


> The iDSD BL has a bass boost switch............



It does indeed


----------



## kingk6673 (Jul 4, 2018)

EJ102 said:


> So is the low end better on the Magni 3 compared to the iDSD Black Label? I'm a basshead



I wanted to have the Magni 3 on when I answered and I can say that the low end is tighter, more control, better detail and separation.  As compared to the ICANSE, which has better base than that iDSD BL, I think that the Magni 3 base is much better and will tell you why it is my personal preference.  The ICANSE tended to sound muddier when there were complex sounds / lots of instruments as mentioned in a number of reviews.  Not so with the Magni 3.   The minus is that you cannot add extra base, but I find you do not need any.  The base is solid on the Magni 3!

The best part is you have the *REALLY* good iDSD Micro BL DAC line out which makes the Magni 3 sound awesome.  Great synergy!

*Now for some tunes with BASS!*  - MQA off Tidal streaming.  Tried to pick a mix of songs to give feel, not necessarily my song mix but wanted to give a few different generes.

Sam Smith (Songs NO PEACE / PRAY) - base hits with good impact and is clear. Sub base is REALLY good
Bebe Rexha  (Songs KNEES / I GOT YOU / SAD) - base is nice and clear with good presence and layering
Lorde (Song GLORY AND GOLD) - base is solid and has presence!
Rihanna (Songs WORK / NEEDED ME Radio Edit) - complex base line really tight, goes deep with nice sub base.  Plenty of slam for me!
Lincoln Park (Song PAPERCUT) - Pretty complex base that can often sound muddy depending on amplifier I have used in past.  With Magni 3 is really tight and clear. Has decent impact.
Beck (Song GIRL) - Base is nicely layered and detailed.  Subbase is nice and clear.
One Republic (Songs OH MY MY / FINGERTIPS) - WOW! the base goes low and is very clear and all the sounds have great separation. Lot of base complexity on FINGERTIPS that hear as a more blended sound with ICANSE that are resolved and separate on Magni 3.

*Final thoughts:* You will get more bass slam with the ICANSE and iDSD Micro BL from headphone out if you use full base boost.  Granted, it is not as clear as the Magni 3 and not as detailed.  The Magni 3 has pretty decent base slam but you cannot vary the amount of bass.  I personally like a good bit of bass and I have not found the Magni 3 lacking for me in this area. I think the amplifier really does hit the "sweet spot" for me sound wise. Now where I think the Magni 3 kills it is with in the bass department is in the details / clarity / layering / separation and sub-base. Ultimately, it really depends on what your cup of tea is since both amplifiers have their strengths.  As for me, I think I will stick with some of the Norse legends and my Magni 3


----------



## EJ102

kingk6673 said:


> I wanted to have the Magni 3 on when I answered and I can say that the low end is tighter, more control, better detail and separation.  As compared to the ICANSE, which has better base than that iDSD BL, I think that the Magni 3 base is much better and will tell you why it is my personal preference.  The ICANSE tended to sound muddier when there were complex sounds / lots of instruments as mentioned in a number of reviews.  Not so with the Magni 3.   The minus is that you cannot add extra base, but I find you do not need any.  The base is solid on the Magni 3!
> 
> The best part is you have the *REALLY* good iDSD Micro BL DAC line out which makes the Magni 3 sound awesome.  Great synergy!
> 
> ...


This was great, thank you!


----------



## fattymacgeek

Hi guys, I ran into a problem with my iDSD Micro BL that's freaking me out.

I've been using it for about a month without any problems with my custom IEM until today when I decided to try several other ear/headphones (IEMs and over-ears). Normally I have it set to ECO and high sensitivity. However, today when I tried to used the Normal or Turbo mode and turn up the volume beyond a certain level ... suddenly the sound (coming from my PC via USB input) turns into a high-pitched whining noise that refused to go away. I had to unplug the unit and power off. If I return it back to ECO mode, everything appears OK but the problem returns whenever I repeat the above steps (switching to normal or turbo and increasing volume). I tried switching USB ports on my computer, and then I tried OTG from my phone but the problem still appears and repeatable.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## technobear

fattymacgeek said:


> Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Re-charge the battery.


----------



## iFi audio

kingk6673 said:


> I wanted to have the Magni 3 on when I answered and I can say that the low end is tighter, more control, better detail and separation.  As compared to the ICANSE, which has better base than that iDSD BL, I think that the Magni 3 base is much better and will tell you why it is my personal preference.  The ICANSE tended to sound muddier when there were complex sounds / lots of instruments as mentioned in a number of reviews.  Not so with the Magni 3.   The minus is that you cannot add extra base, but I find you do not need any.  The base is solid on the Magni 3!
> 
> The best part is you have the *REALLY* good iDSD Micro BL DAC line out which makes the Magni 3 sound awesome.  Great synergy!
> 
> ...



Nice feedback, thanks!


----------



## fattymacgeek

technobear said:


> Re-charge the battery.



Yes the battery definitely seems to be the problem. Plugging it to a wall charger (unit off) will turn on the blue LED for a short while and then it disappears. If I unplug it and turn the unit on, nothing lights up. Using a wall charger and operating the unit as purely an amp, everything is OK in Eco, Normal, and Turbo mode.

I have tried to follow the guidelines for jump starting the battery several times now but each time the blue LED turns on and then disappears. I repeat this every 30 minutes or so. Is there anyway to know if the battery is still slowly being charged up (for example. increase in length of time that the blue LED remains on before disappearing) or if my battery is a complete goner? Right now I'm just wishing and praying ...


----------



## technobear

fattymacgeek said:


> Yes the battery definitely seems to be the problem. Plugging it to a wall charger (unit off) will turn on the blue LED for a short while and then it disappears. If I unplug it and turn the unit on, nothing lights up. Using a wall charger and operating the unit as purely an amp, everything is OK in Eco, Normal, and Turbo mode.
> 
> I have tried to follow the guidelines for jump starting the battery several times now but each time the blue LED turns on and then disappears. I repeat this every 30 minutes or so. Is there anyway to know if the battery is still slowly being charged up (for example. increase in length of time that the blue LED remains on before disappearing) or if my battery is a complete goner? Right now I'm just wishing and praying ...


I don't know what your charger is but maybe it's not very good. Can you try a different one?


----------



## HungryPanda

Mine will not charge from my anker charger but does from my amazon basics usb3 hub


----------



## fattymacgeek

HungryPanda said:


> Mine will not charge from my anker charger but does from my amazon basics usb3 hub





technobear said:


> I don't know what your charger is but maybe it's not very good. Can you try a different one?



Thanks guys, really appreciate the suggestions. I've tried using 5 chargers from different brands (all rated 10W, 5V/2A) ... same behavior (blue LED comes on for a while and then off). The same goes for the powered usb3.0 hub I have. I'll give it a few more tries ... and if nothing changes I guess I'll have to submit a support ticket.


----------



## iFi audio

fattymacgeek said:


> Thanks guys, really appreciate the suggestions. I've tried using 5 chargers from different brands (all rated 10W, 5V/2A) ... same behavior (blue LED comes on for a while and then off). The same goes for the powered usb3.0 hub I have. I'll give it a few more tries ... and if nothing changes I guess I'll have to submit a support ticket.



By all means please use our support ASAP and we'll do our best to sort you out.


----------



## talan7

Has anyone gotten the black label to work with Tidal on Xperia XZ1 with Oreo? I can’t get it to work.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks...

*CanJam London 2018!*
*
 *

...and two of our staff - Sarah and Hannah - will be there! The girls will be located with iFi audio hardware at the Electromod's booth! Please do visit the girls, they don't bite!

And to all able to visit the event, enjoy!


----------



## xLoud

I am considering iDSD Black Label, did anyone compare idsd BL to NFB 11.28? Does idsd BL has multibit DAC chip?


----------



## TheoS53

xLoud said:


> I am considering iDSD Black Label, did anyone compare idsd BL to NFB 11.28? Does idsd BL has multibit DAC chip?



@jeffhawke should be able to tell you about that


----------



## jeffhawke

xLoud said:


> I am considering iDSD Black Label, did anyone compare idsd BL to NFB 11.28? Does idsd BL has multibit DAC chip?


Well, first of all, I find it kinda difficult to carry the NFB 11.28 around... Jokes aside, I don't even have the NFB 11.28, but the 28.38, which is in a different market segment, as it has a fully balanced configuration and a very powerful amp section. Having said that, I love the iFi micro iDSD, I've changed a few desktop amps but I always kept my BL. It's Burr Brown twin DAC section is superb and I don't know if it is multibit or not, but it has a "bit perfect" switch which I keep on all the time. Power-wise it is definitely no slouch, in fact it comes close to the 28.38. The BL is definitely more suited for iems, even very sensitive ones, the 28.38 loves big, higher impedance cans. So, depending on your intended use you may choose one or the other, for desktop, full size balanced headphones I have chosen the 28.38, for iems and single ended cans the micro iDSD BL. Both also have analog outputs (the 28.38 XLR and RCA, the BL only RCA), which allows their use as pure DACs. On a single ended basis, I think the micro iDSD BL has a slight upper hand vs. the 11.28, and it is certainly much more versatile.
.


----------



## xLoud

Thanks for the elaborate explanation. Now I can definitely go for iDSD BL hope the price will drop to  380 $ soon.


----------



## technobear

xLoud said:


> Does idsd BL has multibit DAC chip?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ids...ase-info-page-153.711217/page-5#post_10404689


----------



## xLoud

technobear said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ids...ase-info-page-153.711217/page-5#post_10404689


It looks like a hydrid dac chip.


----------



## mynamesjeff

Hi All

Really hoping you guys can help me but i've got the flashing blue light on my idsd black label. 
I have tried plugging it in to a usb power source (in my case my iPhone charger) for an hour, unplug wait 30 seconds then re plug. Have tried this 3 times but it still gives me the flashing blue light.
Am i doing this right? stupid question but i plug the provided blue usb cable from the digital input into the power source and not plug in a male to male usb to the smart power output on the side to charge the unit.

Am at my wits end with this thing. Love it when it's working but i then didn't use it for a month and now having annoying dramas trying to "jump start" this battery.

Any help will be greatly appreciated


----------



## TheoS53

mynamesjeff said:


> Hi All
> 
> Really hoping you guys can help me but i've got the flashing blue light on my idsd black label.
> I have tried plugging it in to a usb power source (in my case my iPhone charger) for an hour, unplug wait 30 seconds then re plug. Have tried this 3 times but it still gives me the flashing blue light.
> ...



Sounds like you've got the cable in the right place. Unplug it, try turning the device on, see what happens. If it looks like it's acting normal again, turn it off and put it back on the charger. If you turn it on and it still doesn't do anything, leave it on the charger for a couple of hours


----------



## mynamesjeff

TheoS53 said:


> Sounds like you've got the cable in the right place. Unplug it, try turning the device on, see what happens. If it looks like it's acting normal again, turn it off and put it back on the charger. If you turn it on and it still doesn't do anything, leave it on the charger for a couple of hours


Thank you for your reply. Tried all that, still flashing blue light. Left it on "charge" all day and still not doing anything. I'm only supposed to plug in the blue cable to the digital input for charging the device right? Nothing else. 
Frustrating me to no end.


----------



## technobear

mynamesjeff said:


> Thank you for your reply. Tried all that, still flashing blue light. Left it on "charge" all day and still not doing anything. I'm only supposed to plug in the blue cable to the digital input for charging the device right? Nothing else.
> Frustrating me to no end.


http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## Brooko

mynamesjeff said:


> Thank you for your reply. Tried all that, still flashing blue light. Left it on "charge" all day and still not doing anything. I'm only supposed to plug in the blue cable to the digital input for charging the device right? Nothing else.
> Frustrating me to no end.



Because you are using the wrong port.  The main one is the digital input.  The charging port is the smaller one to the right (the micro USB).







It has a battery symbol above it with "5V".  You need a USB to micro USB cable - there isn't one included in the accessory package, but any standard micro USB charge cable will do.


----------



## mynamesjeff

Brooko said:


> Because you are using the wrong port.  The main one is the digital input.  The charging port is the smaller one to the right (the micro USB).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply however i'm using the IFI idsd Black label


----------



## Brooko

Sorry - confused.  Was reading 2 threads at the same time.  Suggest doing what Technobear said - raise a ticket with iFi.  That's what they are there for.


----------



## Yethal

mynamesjeff said:


> Thanks for the reply however i'm using the IFI idsd Black label


I had the same issue with mine. In the end I sent it over to iFi for PCB replacement because none of their troubleshooting tips worked.


----------



## rbalcom

mynamesjeff said:


> Hi All
> 
> Really hoping you guys can help me but i've got the flashing blue light on my idsd black label.
> I have tried plugging it in to a usb power source (in my case my iPhone charger) for an hour, unplug wait 30 seconds then re plug. Have tried this 3 times but it still gives me the flashing blue light.
> ...



I am guessing that you are talking about the Micro iDSD BL. Take a look at this:

https://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/ 

I charge mine from my PC USB rather than an adapter. It looks to me that could be your issue. Hope the link helps.


----------



## iFi audio

mynamesjeff said:


> Thanks for the reply however i'm using the IFI idsd Black label



As advised above, please use our support platform: http://support.ifi-audio.com


----------



## abvolt

thanks thats what I was looking for..


----------



## fattymacgeek

mynamesjeff said:


> Thanks for the reply however i'm using the IFI idsd Black label



I am having the same issue with my iDSD BL. I've already opened a ticket with them and waiting to see how to resolve the issue.

FYI ... this was how my problem appeared, Stage 3 sounds pretty much like where you're at now.

_Stage 1 _= While testing some headphones, I put it into Normal and Turbo mode. When I turn up the volume beyond a certain level, suddenly the sound (coming from my PC via USB input) turns into a high-pitched whining noise that refused to go away. I had to unplug the unit and power off. If I return it back to ECO mode, everything appears OK but the problem returns whenever I repeat the above steps (switching to Normal or Turbo and increasing volume). I tried switching USB ports on my computer, and then I tried OTG from my phone but the problem still appears and repeatable. Someone suggested that it may be a battery issue and that I should charge my battery first. 

_Stage 2 = _Disconnecting from the PC, this is when I noticed that the unit will not turn on (possibly confirming no battery). Connecting the unit to a USB charger via blue USB cable and it works normally (in Eco, Normal, and Turbo modes). So I attempted to charge the battery with the unit turned off. Plugging it to a wall charger (unit off) will turn on the blue LED for a short while and then it disappears after approx 30 secs. I have tried to follow the guidelines for jump starting the battery many times but each time the blue LED turns on and then disappears. I repeat this every 30 minutes or so for 2 days (numerous attempts) with no change. I tried 5 different chargers (official Samsung, Apple, Oppo, and 3rd party chargers) as well as 3rd party USB cable and a powered USB 3.0 hub.

_Stage 3 = _I came up with an alternative solution, that is, connect the unit to a wall charger via blue USB cable and send optical digital input from PC. This allowed me to use the unit in Eco, Normal. and Turbo mode for about 1-2 days. However, the next day when I turn on the unit, the green LED was blinking very fast and it refused to connect to the PC at all. Turning off the unit, the blue LED began blinking very fast. From the link on the website (http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/smartpower-please-feed-the-meaty-monster-part-1/), I assumed that the protection circuitry has disconnected the circuit. I follow the instructions on this website (leaving it to charge, coming back and disconnecting and reconnecting again after a few hours). I have also tried to leave the unit connected to the charger overnight and throughout the next day uninterrupted. However, the blinking blue LED never stopped or changed conditions.

_Current Stage _= The unit cannot be operated in any manner. Blinking blue LED light continues nonstop after 24+ hours of charging. Attempts to remove and reconnect the USB cable after approx 30 secs (jump start?) has no effect.


----------



## abvolt

How about a new firmware update ? I don't have the idsd bl yet but will soon..


----------



## Baten (Aug 6, 2018)

Late to the party but I love this device to bits  especially the NOS/Bit-Perfect is really nifty on a traditional chip-based DAC! On top of the smart triple optical/coaxical/input, the DSP switches, the power on it is just insane for a semi portable device too! Great op-amp in it no clue whatever kind it is, it is insane.

I'm always using it in battery mode and charge it when I'm sleeping. Beats having to see if a linear power supply exists for other desktop gear, it's hard to beat battery power performance characteristics!

In any case my conclusion is this device is very very hard to beat. In NOS it sounds a little warm-rolled off, especially compared to other ESS Sabre DACs, but it also sounds very natural and pleasing. I wish my PC could sample to DSD 256/512 but alas that might be for some years later in the future, I'm sure I'll still be using this little device for years to come  hats off to iFi.


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> Late to the party but I love this device to bits  especially the NOS/Bit-Perfect is really nifty on a traditional chip-based DAC! On top of the smart triple optical/coaxical/input, the DSP switches, the power on it is just insane for a semi portable device too! Great op-amp in it no clue whatever kind it is, it is insane.
> 
> I'm always using it in battery mode and charge it when I'm sleeping. Beats having to see if a linear power supply exists for other desktop gear, it's hard to beat battery power performance characteristics!
> 
> In any case my conclusion is this device is very very hard to beat. In NOS it sounds a little warm-rolled off, especially compared to other ESS Sabre DACs, but it also sounds very natural and pleasing. I wish my PC could sample to DSD 256/512 but alas that might be for some years later in the future, I'm sure I'll still be using this little device for years to come  hats off to iFi.



Much appreciated, enjoy!


----------



## hag6

Hi I think I have a problem.
(RE Silver version of the Micro idsd /Win 7 /foobar)
I am not able to get the audio control panel to identify the correct sample rate of hi rez flac files. In foobar a file is recognised as 192000Hz  but the control panel shows 44100Hz.(see below). Also the led is green. When I play DSD files the control panel indicates the the same sample rate as shown in foobar for example 2822400Hz (led light blue).
Any advice most welcome.


----------



## iFi audio

hag6 said:


> Hi I think I have a problem.
> (RE Silver version of the Micro idsd /Win 7 /foobar)
> I am not able to get the audio control panel to identify the correct sample rate of hi rez flac files. In foobar a file is recognised as 192000Hz  but the control panel shows 44100Hz.(see below). Also the led is green. When I play DSD files the control panel indicates the the same sample rate as shown in foobar for example 2822400Hz (led light blue).
> Any advice most welcome.



It's most likely your software settings related, but please feel free to shoot us a message here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=755


----------



## Baten

hag6 said:


> Hi I think I have a problem.
> (RE Silver version of the Micro idsd /Win 7 /foobar)
> I am not able to get the audio control panel to identify the correct sample rate of hi rez flac files. In foobar a file is recognised as 192000Hz  but the control panel shows 44100Hz.(see below). Also the led is green. When I play DSD files the control panel indicates the the same sample rate as shown in foobar for example 2822400Hz (led light blue).
> Any advice most welcome.



Set up foobar with a direct output such as WASAPI or ASIO. It will automatically set the correct sample rate. For DSD you need to set up DoP or native dsd in foobar which I don't even know what is the best way today, I don't listen to DSD.


----------



## hag6

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am not having problems with DSD files The audio control panel sample rate corresponds with that shown in foobar eg dsd64 file shows sample rate of 2823400 in foobar registers the same sample rate in the audio control panel. However if I play a hi-rez flac file eg 192000Hz is displayed in foobar but only 44100Hz is displayed in the audio control panel. Any ideas. Thanks


----------



## technobear

hag6 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am not having problems with DSD files The audio control panel sample rate corresponds with that shown in foobar eg dsd64 file shows sample rate of 2823400 in foobar registers the same sample rate in the audio control panel. However if I play a hi-rez flac file eg 192000Hz is displayed in foobar but only 44100Hz is displayed in the audio control panel. Any ideas. Thanks


Which output driver are you using?

Asio? Wasapi? Direct Sound?


----------



## hag6

technobear said:


> Which output driver are you using?
> 
> Asio? Wasapi? Direct Sound?


Hi technobear.I am using Asio


----------



## technobear

hag6 said:


> Hi technobear.I am using Asio


Well then somewhere in your ASIO configuration, you have limited output sample rate to 44,100.

I'm away from home so I can't just fire it up and look. Sorry about that. I know it can work so it is misconfigured somewhere.


----------



## hag6

Than


technobear said:


> Well then somewhere in your ASIO configuration, you have limited output sample rate to 44,100.
> 
> I'm away from home so I can't just fire it up and look. Sorry about that. I know it can work so it is misconfigured somewhere.




Thanks again for taking time to consider my proble. I have identified the issue, I had a component Resampler PPHS installed. I have no idea why I installed this. The resampler was set at 44.100 and therefore limited files to play at 44.100. In fact this plugin only allows re sampling up to 96000 I have uninstalled it from the DSP. The audio control panel now identifies the files as 96000.or 192000. 

in my pursuit of finding a solution to my problem i came across several posts about  a DSD Transcoder component plug in for foobar. What are your thoughts on this option. Is it "better" in terms of SQ than just selecting native DSD via ASIO?


----------



## hag6

*Hi has anyone tried **Sonarworks True-FI with the idsd. I am using win 7 and foobar. I cannot get this to work. There is no difference in audio quality when I disable True-FI. If I use True-fi via my pc's soundcard there is a significant difference.*


----------



## Baten

Sonarworks systemwide works only via Directsound. Not via Asio or Wasapi. Check that you are using your default output mode.

Sonarworks can also be used as VST, foobar has a VST wrapper plug-in (only VST 32-bit).


----------



## hag6

Baten said:


> Sonarworks systemwide works only via Directsound. Not via Asio or Wasapi. Check that you are using your default output mode.
> 
> Sonarworks can also be used as VST, foobar has a VST wrapper plug-in (only VST 32-bit).


I will try this setting . Many thanks


----------



## hag6

hag6 said:


> I will try this setting . Many thanks



I set foobar output to DS but still the Truefi sound is no different whether it is enabled or disabled. When I play via the PC sound card there is a big difference


----------



## hag6

got it setting to DS and unchecking Exclusive Node now foobar is playing via True-fi. However the ifi audio control panel is misreading the sample rate. It identifies all files as 192000 regardless. Is this a characteristic of the DS output?


----------



## technobear

hag6 said:


> got it setting to DS and unchecking Exclusive Node now foobar is playing via True-fi. However the ifi audio control panel is misreading the sample rate. It identifies all files as 192000 regardless. Is this a characteristic of the DS output?


Yes. Windows will convert everything to the same rate as set up in the Sound control panel.


----------



## hag6

technobear said:


> Yes. Windows will convert everything to the same rate as set up in the Sound control panel.


Thank you for the info.


----------



## hag6

iFi audio said:


> It's most likely your software settings related, but please feel free to shoot us a message here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=755


Thanks for the help via ticket system. Alix gave me the correct answer.  Problem solved. Great customer service.


----------



## iFi audio

hag6 said:


> Thanks for the help via ticket system. Alix gave me the correct answer.  Problem solved. Great customer service.



We honestly try


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, awesome news!

*EISA* (the European Sound and Imaging Association) has awarded the xDSD as* the Best Portable DAC/Headphone Amplifier for 2018-2019.*

The official release is to be found here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/page-56#post-14422901







 HAPPY!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Congratulations, @iFi audio 

Fun stuff to hear that it was received so well by the EISA


----------



## Vartan

Congrats!


----------



## iFi audio

Thanks guys, big news for us!


----------



## iFi audio

Folks...

*IFA 2018 *
*...it's almost here!*



 

*When?*
The 31st Aug - 5 Sept 2018!

*The place?*
Berlin!

*Where exactly?*
Hall 1.2, stand 206, WOD Audio (iFi's German distributor)

You'll have a chance to preview our EISA award winner - xDSD! Our two lovely girls - *Victoria* and *Sarah *- will be there supported by *Thorsten Loesch* himself.

If you'll attend, please visit us!


----------



## 227qed

What is the main purpose of the optical out?  In particular,  I currently run optical out—>mimby—>iCAN, but am in need of a portable solution.  Considering the iDSD or mojo as the top contenders right now, I’m wondering if I the iDSD could have an advantage by also improving my home setup as the first link in the chain before the mimby.  Would it do interesting things to the optical signal before hitting the mimby or is it just some kind of pass through?  Could the XBass and/or 3D be applied in the digital domain?


----------



## Baten

The optical is a digital pass through that's it. You could feed the mimby using the iDSD like an eitr but the other effects are only applied in analogue domain.

Also I far prefer the sound from the iDSD in bitperfect over the schiit but to each their own


----------



## 227qed

Baten said:


> The optical is a digital pass through that's it. You could feed the mimby using the iDSD like an eitr but the other effects are only applied in analogue domain.
> 
> Also I far prefer the sound from the iDSD in bitperfect over the schiit but to each their own



Right on, that’s good to know, thanks!  Definitely always a possibility that I’d prefer the dac in the iDSD and then be able to sell the mimby to minimize the price.


----------



## blackyangell

Does anybody aware of any current price drops / discounts for iDSD BL?


----------



## iFi audio

227qed said:


> Could the XBass and/or 3D be applied in the digital domain?



No, these are in 100% analogue.


----------



## Dobrescu George

iFi audio said:


> No, these are in 100% analogue.



Sweet fact actually  

It is also written on the package in multiple places


----------



## 227qed

iFi audio said:


> No, these are in 100% analogue.



Right on, from what I gather, applying processors to the analog signal means no bit loss.  I've been super pleased with performance of these feature on my micro iCAN and just had to make sure the iDSD didn't offer any "additive" effects in the digital pathway.  That being said, I think it's definitely time to start saving for a Pro iCAN.    ...while I'm here...any comment on the strength of the Pro iCANs Xbass switch vs. the micro, and how this feature may be influenced by an in-line analogue EQ like the Schiit Loki?  I.e. will I see a linear response in the strength of the XBass with the Loki (+12 dB @ 20 Hz) or is the XBass still strictly going to be additive? Hope that makes sense, I'm trying to go all out bass head for a home theater setup right now.


----------



## thrand1

Hi all,

Now that it has been out in the wild for a few months, what feedback do you all have on firmware version 5.30 "Cookies and Cream"?

I don't have any access to MQA files, so that portion of the firmware does not have any added value for me at this time- does anyone have any comments on other changes (good or bad) in behavior of their respective iFi device not related to MQA? I have an iDSD BL currently on 5.2, and am weighing whether or not to perform the upgrade.

Thanks in advance for your comments and feedback!


----------



## Baten (Aug 30, 2018)

thrand1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Now that it has been out in the wild for a few months, what feedback do you all have on firmware version 5.30 "Cookies and Cream"?
> 
> ...



When upgrading I believe you lose 768Khz and DSD512 support. That is the trade off (correct me if I am wrong). >>It says "if  you    require    DSD512/PCM768    without    MQA,    then    use    version    5.2". There should be no other changes in performance, can iFi confirm this?

If you do not use MQA files or streaming, I suggest staying on 5.20, that is what mine shipped with (rather new unit) and what I'll keep using. It works perfectly, I see no reason to update.


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> There should be no other changes in performance, can iFi confirm this?



That is correct. It's either DSD512 without MQA or DSD256 and MQA, but no change as far as sound goes.


----------



## yoyorast10

My Micro iDSD BL is blinking green. What does this mean?


----------



## HungryPanda

Flashing green means device is in sleep mode


----------



## yoyorast10

I get a pop sound through my speakers whenever the micro iDSD goes into sleep mode. (connected through the RCA outs).

 Is it better to just use firmware without sleep mode? Mainly using this on my PC.


----------



## hag6 (Sep 4, 2018)

Hi
Another anomaly has occurred. I can no longer play DSD .dff files in foobar.  DSD  dsf are fine. I have not altered foobar since I was last able to play .dff.files
Sound is being played by foobar as it is registered on the visualization window but I cannot hear the file.

When I play a flac or dsf file the iFi (by AMR) HD+ USB Audio output is identified by the sound configuration in windows. As soon as I attempt to play a .dff file it disappears.

Update: I played with the output settings. If i change ASIO to AISO iFi (by AMR) HD+ USB Audio and swap Tools - SACD setting from DSD to PCM it plays DSD .dff but not DSD .dsf

I am stumped any ideas welcome

Further update
 i followed the instructions on https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.co...-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/

I have replaced the ASIO driver with the DSDTranscoder and set foobar up to Mode 2 (not using the DSD processor as I believe the author suggests that the idsd performs better without this option:



All file types play but  two more issues - I cant use the graphic equalizer with DSD files it works fine with flac. My preset really helps to enhance my akg 702.

Secondly the ifi control panel sample rate doesn't correspond with the foobar reading with DSD multi-channel files. I am sure it correlated before.
 I need a bit of technical insight. Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

hag6 said:


> Hi
> Another anomaly has occurred. I can no longer play DSD .dff files in foobar.  DSD  dsf are fine. I have not altered foobar since I was last able to play .dff.files
> Sound is being played by foobar as it is registered on the visualization window but I cannot hear the file.
> 
> ...



Please let us know about your issues via our support platform, to be found here: https://support.ifi-audio.com

Our support team will do their best ot help you out!


----------



## briant4pres

iFi audio said:


> That is correct. It's either DSD512 without MQA or DSD256 and MQA, but no change as far as sound goes.



Hi, could you tell me if the idac2 supports dsd 512 with the 5.2 firmwares the xdsd does? I notice both only have one dac chip but it says the dac 2 doesnt officialy support 512


----------



## hamachan

briant4pres said:


> Hi, could you tell me if the idac2 supports dsd 512 with the 5.2 firmwares the xdsd does? I notice both only have one dac chip but it says the dac 2 doesnt officialy support 512


I own both micro iDAC2 and xDSD and iDAC2 does support upto DSD256 even firmware 5.20.  BTW, I have never ever seen native DSD512 sources so I do not understand why people are interested in DSD512 capability.


----------



## briant4pres

hqplayer can upsample to dsd512

I guess im better off with the xdsd or blk label micro then


----------



## hamachan

briant4pres said:


> hqplayer can upsample to dsd512
> 
> I guess im better off with the xdsd or blk label micro then


I am using iDAC2 as my home audio system which sounds superior to xDSD for sure.  xDSD is excellent enough tor mobile use, but not exceeds iDAC2.


----------



## iFi audio (Sep 5, 2018)

hamachan said:


> I am using iDAC2 as my home audio system which sounds superior to xDSD for sure.  xDSD is excellent enough tor mobile use, but not exceeds iDAC2.



This is very much accurate. Our iDAC2 is a beast when it comes down to sound quality *only *and in our hierarchy second only to our Pro iDSD.

Btw., this happened at IFA!


----------



## xLoud

Is there any chance to get iDSD Black Label on 380$ deal soon?


----------



## iFi audio

xLoud said:


> Is there any chance to get iDSD Black Label on 380$ deal soon?



You'd have to ask your local iFi audio distributor/reseller as we at our HQ have no nfo about any price cuts.


----------



## vintinfinity

iFi audio said:


> You'd have to ask your local iFi audio distributor/reseller as we at our HQ have no nfo about any price cuts.



Heads up to ifi-audio, the new webpage looks great, but the specs listing for the iDSD Micro Black Label says max power is 285mw like the Nano BL has.


----------



## iFi audio (Sep 10, 2018)

vintinfinity said:


> Heads up to ifi-audio, the new webpage looks great, but the specs listing for the iDSD Micro Black Label says max power is 285mw like the Nano BL has.



We'll get this sorted, thanks!

Oh and our Pro iDSD review just landed at www.6moons.com and it's a good one! 

http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/ifi/1.html

Enjoy!


----------



## xLoud

Is there any change in Micro iDSD Black Label lately. Because the specification on the website says "Maximum 200 mW @ 15 Ohm". Previously it was 4000 mW @ 16Ohm. Someone please clarify.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

iFi audio said:


> This is very much accurate. Our iDAC2 is a beast when it comes down to sound quality *only *and in our hierarchy second only to our Pro iDSD.
> 
> Btw., this happened at IFA!



B-b-but I prefer the iDSD’s “colder” sound sig to the iDAC2!


----------



## iFi audio

WilliamLeonhart said:


> B-b-but I prefer the iDSD’s “colder” sound sig to the iDAC2!



And that's perfectly fine! Please roll with what you like the most! Enjoy!


----------



## TheoS53

iFi audio said:


> This is very much accurate. Our iDAC2 is a beast when it comes down to sound quality *only *and in our hierarchy second only to our Pro iDSD.
> 
> Btw., this happened at IFA!




And the Acadamy award goes too.....

But seriously, looks pretty interesting.


----------



## iFi audio

TheoS53 said:


> And the Acadamy award goes too.....
> 
> But seriously, looks pretty interesting.



Yeah, he has some acting skills alright


----------



## zdrvr (Sep 17, 2018)

I've just hard wired the iEMatch switch on the ifi micro iDSD silver on the Ultra position. Just a coulple of solder iron did the trick.

Was getting some bad channel imbalances in every iEMatch position, upon disassembly the unit and taking the switch apart I could see how the switch works and make the hard bridge to the ultra position.

The iEMatch switch uses a different set of resistor (Off position has resistor too).

I only use the iDSD for sensitive iems so this hard wired settings works great for me. After the mod I use another external iEMatch adapter on Ultra to get a comfortable long listening session volume, now I can use the volum knob at 1-2 pm with no trouble.

Have to take this route because the iDSD was a second hand unit and sending the unit to repair at ifi would get a high cost (shipping + labor).

Everything is smooth again.


----------



## iFi audio (Sep 21, 2018)

Folks, this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bigger-bolder-better-the-new-amr.889437/

...and this:








If you're nearby, please do visit us. The place is easy to find, right between food and beverages


----------



## Baten

So uh @iFi audio ,

Out of plain interest I upgraded my micro BL to v5.3C just to try out the GTO("Gibbs Transient Optimized") filter,

(usually) I'm not one good at discerning filters in the first place, but on my micro black I have a way lower volume when I set it on mode 2 / GTO instead of mode 1 / bitperfect. The volume is plain lower without ever touching the volume knob.

Could you verify if this happens on another unit than mine and if this might be a bug or intended?

Thank you


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> So uh @iFi audio ,
> 
> Out of plain interest I upgraded my micro BL to v5.3C just to try out the GTO("Gibbs Transient Optimized") filter,
> 
> ...



With GTO at work the filter switch is disabled for  PCM. Do you do DSD upsampling via software or play DSD by any chance? There are level differences between DSD filters.


----------



## Baten

iFi audio said:


> With GTO at work the filter switch is disabled for  PCM. Do you do DSD upsampling via software or play DSD by any chance? There are level differences between DSD filters.



Wait so before switch 1 was bitperfect 2 was minimum phase, 3 was 'standard'.

With the update on PCM the filter switch is disabled? I thought it said GTO replaced the minimum phase in the documentation of the update?

Also in switch 2 the volume is lower when playing PCM, I don't really use DSD. Thanks for looking into it though.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

I got a really good deal on the original silver micro iDSD. I have an iCan SE to pair up with it. I was actually on the lookout for a used iDAC2 since I don't need the portability features the iDSD offers, but I couldn't pass up such a good deal on the iDSD. Strictly as a DAC, am I correct in thinking the silver iDSD is a step behind both the iDAC2 and iDSD Black Label?

What would really help me is hearing from someone who has compared the silver iDSD to the other two models when only using the DAC line out to the iCAN SE. I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle of trying to sell/trade my silver iDSD in order to get the iDAC2 for my desktop setup.


----------



## iFi audio

ckhirnigs113 said:


> I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle of trying to sell/trade my silver iDSD in order to get the iDAC2 for my desktop setup.



It's worth it in 100%. iDAC2 as a desktop DAC is far better than silver iDSD.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

iFi audio said:


> It's worth it in 100%. iDAC2 as a desktop DAC is far better than silver iDSD.


Well you have made my decision very easy! 

Anybody interested in buying a silver iDSD or trading for their iDAC2?


----------



## iFi audio

Also folks, AMR will be demoing two machines in the Colorado Audio Society Hospitality Suite at RMAF. Room 6007.



 


 

Yup, we're giving away Fast Blow fuses for Magnepan speakers! 2.5A for Magnepan 3.6/3.7 and 4A for other Magnepan machines.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

@iFi audio I've got a micro iDSD and am using it with my iPhone as the source to stream Tidal via the CCK adapter. I'm thinking about trading/selling the iDSD in order to get an iDAC2 to pair with my iCAN SE. I know the iDAC2 runs off USB power, so I assume I will not be able to power it with my iPhone alone even if the lighting charging cable is attached to the CCK adapter. 

Would I be able to get away with buying a cheap powered USB hub to connect to the CCK and then using a iPurifier2 to clean up the signal before getting to the iDAC2? I don't think the nano iUSB3.0 is in my price range unless I get a really good deal on a used one, though I believe this would be the perfect device for my needs since it would provide the clean USB power. The real problem is my wife is always using our laptop, so I'm stuck using my iPhone as a source even though I'm at home. If it's too much trouble I may just keep the iDSD to use exclusively with my iPhone when I don't have my laptop since I can avoid power cords completely with that setup. 

Problem is I really want the iDAC2 + iCAN SE setup!


----------



## technobear

ckhirnigs113 said:


> @iFi audio I've got a micro iDSD and am using it with my iPhone as the source to stream Tidal via the CCK adapter. I'm thinking about trading/selling the iDSD in order to get an iDAC2 to pair with my iCAN SE. I know the iDAC2 runs off USB power, so I assume I will not be able to power it with my iPhone alone even if the lighting charging cable is attached to the CCK adapter.
> 
> Would I be able to get away with buying a cheap powered USB hub to connect to the CCK and then using a iPurifier2 to clean up the signal before getting to the iDAC2? I don't think the nano iUSB3.0 is in my price range unless I get a really good deal on a used one, though I believe this would be the perfect device for my needs since it would provide the clean USB power. The real problem is my wife is always using our laptop, so I'm stuck using my iPhone as a source even though I'm at home. If it's too much trouble I may just keep the iDSD to use exclusively with my iPhone when I don't have my laptop since I can avoid power cords completely with that setup.
> 
> Problem is I really want the iDAC2 + iCAN SE setup!


Don't waste your money!

On an HD58X, you are not going to hear a difference between iDSD and iDAC2. What's more, as you are using a phone for a source, the iDSD is the better choice as it has its own battery. The phone may not power an iPurifier2 so I wouldn't buy one of those unless you have another use for it - like the wife lets you use the computer occasionally.


----------



## ckhirnigs113 (Oct 4, 2018)

technobear said:


> Don't waste your money!
> 
> On an HD58X, you are not going to hear a difference between iDSD and iDAC2. What's more, as you are using a phone for a source, the iDSD is the better choice as it has its own battery. The phone may not power an iPurifier2 so I wouldn't buy one of those unless you have another use for it - like the wife lets you use the computer occasionally.


Thanks for your honest opinion! I really do hate wasting money. For the money I've got in my setup (<$500 including iCan SE, micro iDSD and HD58X) I am already getting incredible sound for such a small amount invested. iFi categorizes the DAC in their iDAC2 as the best they offer below the Pro iDSD. Since I never travel with my setup, I feel like the tradeoffs made for portability in the micro iDSD are not worth it for me in my home setup.

Though like I've said, my wife often lays claim to our laptop so you're probably right about there being no need to upgrade the chain when the phone is the source. The dilemma in my mind is whether it'll be worth upgrading the micro iDSD (silver, mind you) to the iDAC2 for those times when I do have the computer as the source streaming Tidal HI-FI/MQA. Are you saying the HD58X is also limiting me from noticing the upgrade from the iDSD to the iDAC2 (strictly used as DAC's with my iCAN SE) even with the computer as a source?


----------



## hag6

Hi i'd appreciate your thoughts on moving away from using a computer as the music server (currently using Win PC - foobar - idsd Micro - headphones). I think the idsd micro offers great flexibility as regards file type & sample rate. However, I have been considering an alternative method of playing  my music rather than thorough the PC. My first thoughts led me to investigate a dedicated music server that can process hi res files; flac & DSD up to the same sample rates as the idsd but these units tend to be at the high end of the audio market. They also tend to function as streamers and allow access to Tidal etc which pushes up their price I  have less interest in the streaming optionat this point. The cheaper or older servers seem not to handle DSD or only process up to 24/96. The other attribute I need is a display on the server to allow me to see the file info such as  track names etc. Many servers  uttilse apps for this function which complicates the issue. I could use a dedicated setver and feed this into the idsd. However I have not found a unit that can process files as good as the idsd.. Any suggestions as to what direction to look. Ideally I don't want to spend more that £500.


----------



## iFi audio

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Thanks for your honest opinion! I really do hate wasting money. For the money I've got in my setup (<$500 including iCan SE, micro iDSD and HD58X) I am already getting incredible sound for such a small amount invested. iFi categorizes the DAC in their iDAC2 as the best they offer below the Pro iDSD. Since I never travel with my setup, I feel like the tradeoffs made for portability in the micro iDSD are not worth it for me in my home setup.
> 
> Though like I've said, my wife often lays claim to our laptop so you're probably right about there being no need to upgrade the chain when the phone is the source. The dilemma in my mind is whether it'll be worth upgrading the micro iDSD (silver, mind you) to the iDAC2 for those times when I do have the computer as the source streaming Tidal HI-FI/MQA. Are you saying the HD58X is also limiting me from noticing the upgrade from the iDSD to the iDAC2 (strictly used as DAC's with my iCAN SE) even with the computer as a source?



The best way would be to contact your local iFi representative and give iDAC2 a test drive. If you don't like it, our return policy is generous and you'll be refunded. But having said this, we still say that iDAC2 is a superior product as a DAC in compariosn to anything else from micro or nano range.


----------



## technobear

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Are you saying the HD58X is also limiting me from noticing the upgrade from the iDSD to the iDAC2 (strictly used as DAC's with my iCAN SE) even with the computer as a source?


Yes.

I'm also saying that the difference between iDAC2 and iDSD is splitting hairs. You will need a top flight headphone and good hearing to event tell a difference. Stop sweating about iDSD being inferior as a DAC. It really isn't. The difference is very small and at this level, hard to hear.

If you want better sound that you can hear - albeit with good cans and good hearing - get the iPurifier2.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Thanks, technobear. I'm sure you're right. I need to stop sweating the small stuff, though this hobby is basically epitomized by sweating the small stuff after putting it under a microscope and getting various people's subjective opinions on the small stuff. Though most of us really do enjoy chasing the last bit of quality we can squeeze out of our setups.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

@technobear Regarding the iPurifier2 in conjunction with my iDSD in a desktop setup, would you say it's better to use the iPurifier2 with the iDSD in USB power mode or battery mode (turning on iDSD before plugging in USB)? I've read it's recommended to use the iDSD in battery mode whenever possible since it is cleaner power, but I wasn't sure if adding the iPurifier2 (or new iPurifier3) to the mix made any difference in this assumption


----------



## technobear

ckhirnigs113 said:


> @technobear Regarding the iPurifier2 in conjunction with my iDSD in a desktop setup, would you say it's better to use the iPurifier2 with the iDSD in USB power mode or battery mode (turning on iDSD before plugging in USB)? I've read it's recommended to use the iDSD in battery mode whenever possible since it is cleaner power, but I wasn't sure if adding the iPurifier2 (or new iPurifier3) to the mix made any difference in this assumption


I always run both of mine in USB power mode rather than battery. I can't hear the difference even though iFi Audio swears it measures better on the battery. Again I would stress my point that the quality level of these DACs is such that the differences are splitting hairs and hard to hear.

If you really want to spend some money and get better sound, I would recommend researching better headphones, not DACs.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

I don't need the battery in any portable situation, so I suppose I'd be better off running in USB power mode to save the battery in the long run. Then again, I've never quite understood if it's best for a battery to drain/recharge it occasionally or just charge it fully and leave it alone. I suppose it will eventually drain no matter if I use it or not. I just want to keep it in the best possible condition in case I ever decide to sell the unit down the line. Any thoughts?


----------



## xLoud (Oct 6, 2018)

Is ther any dac/amp combo or dac + amp under 500$ (Portable or desktop setup) that can match or out perform iDSD/iDSD Black Label? Mainly for planar headphones.


----------



## Gordhifi

xLoud said:


> Is ther any dac/amp combo or dac + amp under 500$ (Portable or desktop setup) that can match or out perform iDSD/iDSD Black Label? Mainly for planar headphones.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm very happy with the Fostex HP-A4BL on my desk and I use iDSD Black Label at work


----------



## Gordhifi

I have the Ifi micro black label and it drives my 400i very well. There is one currently for sale on here for 500.00 if that helps.


----------



## Baten

I love my BL and have a hard time thinking of anything that's a solid upgrade !


----------



## Gordhifi

^^^^^ I can't agree more. The versatility is unmatched for the money.


----------



## iFi audio

Gordhifi said:


> ^^^^^ I can't agree more. The versatility is unmatched for the money.



We can easily agree with this


----------



## xLoud

I had IFI iDSD silver. I am not looking for versatility. I am looking for pure performance.


----------



## hag6 (Oct 7, 2018)

hag6 said:


> Hi i'd appreciate your thoughts on moving away from using a computer as the music server (currently using Win PC - foobar - idsd Micro - headphones). I think the idsd micro offers great flexibility as regards file type & sample rate. However, I have been considering an alternative method of playing  my music rather than thorough the PC. My first thoughts led me to investigate a dedicated music server that can process hi res files; flac & DSD up to the same sample rates as the idsd but these units tend to be at the high end of the audio market. They also tend to function as streamers and allow access to Tidal etc which pushes up their price I  have less interest in the streaming optional this point. The cheaper or older servers seem not to handle DSD or only process up to 24/96. The other attribute I need is a display on the server to allow me to see the file info such as  track names etc. Many servers  uttilse apps for this function which complicates the issue. I could use a dedicated server and feed this into the idsd. However I have not found a unit that can process files as good as the idsd.. Any suggestions as to what direction to look. Ideally I don't want to spend more that £500.



I have just noticed that ifi have added a usb input for HDD/USB drive to the idsd Pro - that would be perfect except it costs £2499. Hopefully ifi will integrate this feature in the future on less expensive devices


----------



## iFi audio

hag6 said:


> I have just noticed that ifi have added a usb input for HDD/USB drive to the idsd Pro - that would be prefect except it costs £2499. Hopefully ifi will integrate this feature in the future on less expensive devices



Highly unlikely due to limited room in there. But who knows.


----------



## hag6

Can the USB input on the Micro idisd accept the USB output from a server/streamer. It works fine when paired with a DAP and obviously a PC but can it recognise the output from a server/streamer?


----------



## Baten (Oct 11, 2018)

The iDSD micro has an USB port for charging/powering, nothing more..

If you mean via the USB input to interface with the streamer, only if that device is fully USB uac compliant. You'd do better to ask at the streamer end.


----------



## hag6

Baten said:


> The iDSD micro has an USB port for charging/powering, nothing more..
> 
> If you mean via the USB input to interface with the streamer, only if that device is fully USB uac compliant. You'd do better to ask at the streamer end.



 Hi I mean the USB Digital interface which I currently use to connect my PC.  Some of the streamer/servers that have no built-in DAC  require a DAC/amp that can be linked in this way.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

hag6 said:


> Hi I mean the USB Digital interface which I currently use to connect my PC.  Some of the streamer/servers that have no built-in DAC  require a DAC/amp that can be linked in this way.


If it has no DAC I’m sure it would have a USB or a optical or a coax output, all of which the iDSD can receive


----------



## iFi audio

WilliamLeonhart said:


> If it has no DAC I’m sure it would have a USB or a optical or a coax output, all of which the iDSD can receive



Pretty much this.


----------



## hag6

Hi Thank you for taking the time to reply. My question relates to the *Micro's input*. I am considering pairing it with a the Auralic Aries Mini which is just a server  that requires a DAC that isn't reliant on having a driver. The Micro has a driver so I need to know if the two devices will work. Thanks


----------



## TheoS53

hag6 said:


> Hi Thank you for taking the time to reply. My question relates to the *Micro's input*. I am considering pairing it with a the Auralic Aries Mini which is just a server  that requires a DAC that isn't reliant on having a driver. The Micro has a driver so I need to know if the two devices will work. Thanks



Ummm, does the Mini not have an internal DAC?

Anyways, the Mini does have optical output, and the Micro has optical input.


----------



## hag6

TheoS53 said:


> Ummm, does the Mini not have an internal DAC?
> 
> Anyways, the Mini does have optical output, and the Micro has optical input.


----------



## hag6 (Oct 14, 2018)

Hi Yes my mistake the Auralic Aries Mini does have a DAC but no amp so I would use the Micro but utilise the USB connections to exploit the best DSD performance.

From the Auralic website: _Compatible DAC' means a DAC do not require a driver for Linux system.
_


----------



## technobear

hag6 said:


> Hi Yes my mistake the Auralic Aries Mini does have a DAC but no amp so I would use the Micro but utilise the USB connections to exploit the best DSD performance.
> 
> From the Auralic website: _Compatible DAC' means a DAC do not require a driver for Linux system._


The iDSD only needs a driver for Windows.

It's amazing what you can learn by using the search function on Head-Fi. As an example, you could search for "Auralic Aries iDSD" and limit the scope to "Dedicated Source Components".

The third result answers your question.


----------



## tuyentien88 (Oct 19, 2018)

Could anyone let me know what is the differences between the original iDSD Micro and the Black Label version? Is the sound quality much better on the Black Label?
Between Mojo and the original iDSD version, which one is better?
I'm currently using the iem ath Ckr9, the headphone Momentum 2.0 over ear and the Hifiman HE-500. Probably using the micro mainly for the Momentum 2.0 and the He-500. I'm thinking of using the Ibasso DX90 as the transport device for the iDSD Micro. Would the sound quality improve?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

tuyentien88 said:


> Could anyone let me know what is the differences between the original iDSD Micro and the Black Label version? Is the sound quality much better on the Black Label?
> Between Mojo and the original iDSD version, which one is better?
> I'm currently using the iem ath Ckr9, the headphone Momentum 2.0 over ear and the Hifiman HE-500. Probably using the micro mainly for the Momentum 2.0 and the He-500. I'm thinking of using the Ibasso DX90 as the transport device for the iDSD Micro. Would the sound quality improve?


Between the iDSD and the Mojo I wouldn’t say one is better than the other. I really liked the iDSD’s more neutral soundsig with lots of clarity in the trebles. But the Mojo could prove more musical on certain tracks. 
In terms of functionalities the iDSD wins hands down. Also, battery life on the Mojo is rather disappointing. I haven’t seen anyone mention battery replacement service from iFi but with Chord it’s quite expensive. Chord also use a lot of proprietary technologies so using 3rd party is more limited. This is particularly important for people from developing countries like me. 
I figuee you can expect improvement from the dx90, especially with the HE 500. The iDSD integrated amp is  a beast in terms of raw power.


----------



## sfleming

I have and use both the Micro and the Mojo. 
For the time being, most of my use is with the Mojo and the Micro might be moving on. 
I do occasionally use them both in my main 2 channel setup with the Micro as a USB/SPDIF since I'm pretty sure I prefer the coax to USB in on the Mojo.

-Steve


----------



## iFi audio

Folks...


----------



## tuyentien88

sfleming said:


> I have and use both the Micro and the Mojo.
> For the time being, most of my use is with the Mojo and the Micro might be moving on.
> I do occasionally use them both in my main 2 channel setup with the Micro as a USB/SPDIF since I'm pretty sure I prefer the coax to USB in on the Mojo.
> 
> -Steve


So you mainly use the Mojo but not the Micro? Is it because of the portability or the sound quality?


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, let us point your attention towards this xCAN space...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xcan-the-official-thread.891479/#post-14553964


----------



## sfleming

Mainly because of the portability really. The sound differences are really just that to me - differences. I enjoy both products. 

-Steve


----------



## FangJoker (Oct 24, 2018)

Isn't this due for an upgrade? I got a few friends that I'm trying to get addicted to headphones and all of the related equipment necessary and they aren't at the stage I'm at and won't spend Hugo 2 money quite yet and this seems to be a good product for entry level guys, but looking at when it was released makes me think that an updated version should be out within 12 months. I can't recommend the mojo as it seems to have a lot of issues and ifi products seem to be a lot better made, but the micro line looks really due for an update. And I'd hate to recommend something that will be updated soon.


----------



## Baten (Oct 24, 2018)

vegasf1 said:


> Isn't this due for an upgrade?


Hope not just recently got mine... But yeah in November it'll be two years old.

What can they do to improve it though? TI/burr brown is not producing new upgraded chips (as far as I know). XMOS has upgrades out but this will hardly matter. The clock might be upgradeable but again will hardly matter. The capacitors are really really good panasonic ones. MQA is already supported, filter is just upgraded to GTO. The amp is freakishly powerful and very silent.

What do you want to see in a new revision? Very little room for improvement. Next step might be iDSD Pro. only $2500


----------



## technobear

vegasf1 said:


> Isn't this due for an upgrade? I got a few friends that I'm trying to get addicted to headphones and all of the related equipment necessary and they aren't at the stage I'm at and won't spend Hugo 2 money quite yet and this seems to be a good product for entry level guys, but looking at when it was released makes me think that an updated version should be out within 12 months. I can't recommend the mojo as it seems to have a lot of issues and ifi products seem to be a lot better made, but the micro line looks really due for an update. And I'd hate to recommend something that will be updated soon.


It's already been upgraded with the Black Label edition. Hard to improve on perfection. There really isn't any more you could do with it unless moving to a bigger box - but that's the Pro-iDSD.


----------



## FangJoker

Baten said:


> Hope not just recently got mine... But yeah in November it'll be two years old.
> 
> What can they do to improve it though? TI/burr brown is not producing new upgraded chips (as far as I know). XMOS has upgrades out but this will hardly matter. The clock might be upgradeable but again will hardly matter. The capacitors are really really good panasonic ones. MQA is already supported, filter is just upgraded to GTO. The amp is freakishly powerful and very silent.
> 
> What do you want to see in a new revision? Very little room for improvement. Next step might be iDSD Pro. only $2500



The item I'd like to see changed most is the USB input. Why can't they use a regular usb input instead of having to use the purple USB adapter or cable that it comes with? 

There's other newer chips they could use. I'm not a fan of ti dac chips. I have always found looking up ifi dac chip info to always be somewhat hidden too. Why is it always hard to find which model chip they are using in their products? 

Most of my friends are looking for something in the 500 to 1000 range and also something that is transportable. This fits the bill, but there's things I think could be improved as well. There's lots of products in the below $500 and above $1,000, but not very much in the middle. It's really the mojo or the BL.


----------



## Baten (Oct 24, 2018)

The ti dac is kind of what makes ifi's signature sound though. Hardware teardown reveals TI 1793 chips on the idsd nano, micro, the ione and idsd pro.

They use that chip because it converts top 6 bits via R2R/ladder/multibit design, the remaining is converted using delta sigma. I don't see iFi changing that any time soon, except in another product line separate from the iDSD maybe.

More info here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ssion-impression.683406/page-65#post-11119457


----------



## Baten

technobear said:


> It's already been upgraded with the Black Label edition. Hard to improve on perfection. There really isn't any more you could do with it unless moving to a bigger box - but that's the Pro-iDSD.



Yes the iDSD PRO, or the newest AMR DAC. I think it will be a 32-bit multibit design of their own which has been teased before... not sure though. Both will be really pricy compared to the idsd micro, that's for sure..


----------



## technobear

vegasf1 said:


> There's other newer chips they could use. I'm not a fan of ti dac chips. I have always found looking up ifi dac chip info to always be somewhat hidden too. Why is it always hard to find which model chip they are using in their products?


It's not hard at all. It's a Burr Brown DSD1793 multi-bit/delta-sigma hybrid.

There are newer chips and if they sounded better then iFi would use them.

The other Burr Brown/TI chips you commonly see, like the PCM1792, are not like the DSD 1793.

See here for iFi's take on the subject:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ids...se-info-page-153.711217/page-57#post-10641478


----------



## FangJoker

I swapped a BL for a week with a friend and the things I didn't like about it were the USB implementation and I thought it wasn't transparent enough for me but I own a Hugo 2 so it's not fair to compare. Most of the guys I talk to don't want to get a dac and amp. They like aio solutions and while I thought the BL was good for the price, I felt that maybe an upgrade would be coming as the cheap mimby and vali combo sounds better to me and even though the stack is small, the 2 guys that are looking for real headphones and or IEMs (currently airpods and beats guys) are looking to pair a dac amp combo with anything from laptops to phones at home and work. This price range is poorly represented unless you're willing to go with a separate dac and amp and are willing to lose the portability of the BL or mojo. 

In any case, I've told both to buy the BL from musicdirect as they can refund it in 60 days if they aren't happy with it. For guys that are starting out into this money pit hobby, I think they will find anything above what they own right now to be a lot better and should love it.


----------



## Baten

vegasf1 said:


> This price range is poorly represented unless you're willing to go with a separate dac and amp and are willing to lose the portability of the BL or mojo.
> 
> In any case, I've told both to buy the BL from musicdirect as they can refund it in 60 days if they aren't happy with it. For guys that are starting out into this money pit hobby, I think they will find anything above what they own right now to be a lot better and should love it.



True. And, nice recommendation


----------



## phthora

Baten said:


> Hope not just recently got mine... But yeah in November it'll be two years old.
> 
> What can they do to improve it though? TI/burr brown is not producing new upgraded chips (as far as I know). XMOS has upgrades out but this will hardly matter. The clock might be upgradeable but again will hardly matter. The capacitors are really really good panasonic ones. MQA is already supported, filter is just upgraded to GTO. The amp is freakishly powerful and very silent.
> 
> What do you want to see in a new revision? Very little room for improvement. Next step might be iDSD Pro. only $2500



Well, because you asked... Ditch the 6.3 for 4-pin XLR output and include an adaptor, dual 3-pin balanced input, improved USB isolation and type B so I can use better/shorter cables, more convenient bottom switches, more robust/stiffer switches in general (so they don't accidentally get pushed around), inset spots for the rubber feet (which will be black now), better indication and grip on the volume knob, user replaceable batteries, crossfeed, ditch the USB phone charging port, better use of the light to relay information. What do you say, @iFi audio ?

That said, I agree that the DAC and amp implementations are excellent, as is the overall build quality. The changes I want are mostly in connectivity and usability. I love my Black Label to death and it will only ever be replaced by a new and hopefully improved Black Label.


----------



## Baten

phthora said:


> Well, because you asked... Ditch the 6.3 for 4-pin XLR output and include an adaptor, dual 3-pin balanced input, improved USB isolation and type B so I can use better/shorter cables, more convenient bottom switches, more robust/stiffer switches in general (so they don't accidentally get pushed around), inset spots for the rubber feet (which will be black now), better indication and grip on the volume knob, user replaceable batteries, crossfeed, ditch the USB phone charging port, better use of the light to relay information. What do you say, @iFi audio ?
> 
> That said, I agree that the DAC and amp implementations are excellent, as is the overall build quality. The changes I want are mostly in connectivity and usability. I love my Black Label to death and it will only ever be replaced by a new and hopefully improved Black Label.



XLR with adapter might make sense for many, but might annoy a deal of other people. Not sure. personally I'd be all for it!


----------



## phthora

Baten said:


> XLR with adapter might make sense for many, but might annoy a deal of other people. Not sure. personally I'd be all for it!



A fair point. I suppose it would make more sense as a product to exist alongside the current BL. XLR and additional inputs would also increase the size of the BL, which is on the very high end of portable as it is.


----------



## iFi audio

phthora said:


> What do you say, @iFi audio ?



We say: we read thoroughly what people here write and want. Not all ideas can be used and to improve micro iDSD BL is a challenge to behold. But who knows what our skunk works will deliver.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart (Oct 25, 2018)

Before I realize it 2 years had already passed. So with some money to spend I was thinking about getting an iDSD for transportable use (not mobile use). But with all the sudden chatter about the iDAC2 these days, I’m not sure anymore. I had both used to prefer the iDSD, but the gap wasn’t huge and my music taste have been changing a lot.
It would be great if I can afford a BL right now but I don’t. So I’m going to ponder over this for a few days more.


----------



## Baten

WilliamLeonhart said:


> Before I realize it 2 years had already passed. So with some money to spend I was thinking about getting an iDSD for transportable use (not mobile use). But with all the sudden chatter about the iDAC2 these days, I’m not sure anymore. I had both used to prefer the iDSD, but the gap wasn’t huge and my music taste have been changing a lot.
> It would be great if I can afford a BL right now but I don’t. So I’m going to ponder over this for a few days more.



Always worth checking out iDSD BL on the used market  every year during black friday they also seem to go $380 and under.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Baten said:


> Always worth checking out iDSD BL on the used market  every year during black friday they also seem to go $380 and under.


I just got the iDAC2. The BL is going to have to wait for a few years I guess. 

Has anyone here noticed a change in sound signature after firmware update on your iFi DAC? I don’t really care about functionality so if nothing changes sound-wise I’m going to keep my iDAC2 the way it is right now


----------



## Baten

WilliamLeonhart said:


> I just got the iDAC2. The BL is going to have to wait for a few years I guess.
> 
> Has anyone here noticed a change in sound signature after firmware update on your iFi DAC? I don’t really care about functionality so if nothing changes sound-wise I’m going to keep my iDAC2 the way it is right now



The firmwares that support MQA will also upsample x8 your music, so if you want to use bitperfect/NOS mode I would not upgrade.

If you don't care about digital upsampling and want to try their newest GTO filter, I would upgrade. Personally I stay on shipped firmware and use Bitperfect.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Baten said:


> The firmwares that support MQA will also upsample x8 your music, so if you want to use bitperfect/NOS mode I would not upgrade.
> 
> If you don't care about digital upsampling and want to try their newest GTO filter, I would upgrade. Personally I stay on shipped firmware and use Bitperfect.


Thanks for the prompt answer. I haven’t looked up what upsampling actually brings in this case and I really wouldn’t want to ruin something that I’ve already liked a lot.


----------



## Baten

WilliamLeonhart said:


> Thanks for the prompt answer. I haven’t looked up what upsampling actually brings in this case and I really wouldn’t want to ruin something that I’ve already liked a lot.


You can always downgrade back if/when you get curious


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Crossing my fingers for some Black Friday deals again this year. I'm also going back and forth between the iDAC2 and iDSD Black Label to compliment my iCAN SE. I don't really need the portability of the Black Label, so I'm leaning towards the iDAC2.


----------



## tinnitize

WilliamLeonhart said:


> I just got the iDAC2. The BL is going to have to wait for a few years I guess.
> 
> Has anyone here noticed a change in sound signature after firmware update on your iFi DAC? I don’t really care about functionality so if nothing changes sound-wise I’m going to keep my iDAC2 the way it is right now



Yes, indeed.

And I was surprised! So much more space, as if more instruments zu be "seen" (looking with your ears, me listening much better with my eyes open, just try it: close and open again while listening), voices better to localize, better shaping of sound sources, much more realistic stage, faster attacks, even more bass - as if I got a DAC of double the investment.

So this upgrade is a very comfortable and generous way to better your hifi equipment - thank you very much, ifi!

I am really exited, and now again going through all my music to listen to in a so much more thrilling and enjoyable way..
.
If you own the right gear and music (classical, jazz - just unplugged) of good and better quality, if you have your personal reference recordings, you will hear at once what has happened by this very upgrade.

My BL was a big step forward already (and afterwards the iUSB3,0 anyway), but now - it seems more difference now than it was between my Mirko (the silver one) and the BL.

(And now I am waiting for the iDSDpro with MQA and the altered plug input...)

You all should do the upgrade whether you like MQA or not: The GTO filter is really worth it, it does it all.

Cheers,
Tinnitize


----------



## tinnitize

tinnitize said:


> Yes, indeed.
> 
> And I was surprised! So much more space, as if more instruments zu be "seen" (looking with your ears, me listening much better with my eyes open, just try it: close and open again while listening), voices better to localize, better shaping of sound sources, much more realistic stage, faster attacks, even more bass - as if I got a DAC of double the investment.
> 
> ...



Just to add: My common listening is via loudspeakers, so listening with your eyes open might be different with cans. And something more: Now that there is even more realistic imaging I tend to listen louder cause it fits...

Tinnitize


----------



## tinnitize

tinnitize said:


> Just to add: My common listening is via loudspeakers, so listening with your eyes open might be different with cans. And something more: Now that there is even more realistic imaging I tend to listen louder cause it fits...
> 
> Tinnitize


Sorry, lads, just forgot to say that I own the iCANpro thus the difference might be even bigger.

Tinnitize


----------



## Baten (Nov 5, 2018)

tinnitize said:


> You all should do the upgrade whether you like MQA or not: The GTO filter is really worth it, it does it all.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tinnitize



Well, not all. I'll stick to bitperfect without the oversampling, that's what I bought the iFi for in the first place; thank you very much 

I did try the new firmware though and or course it isn't bad by any means, I just prefer rolled-off "romantic sounding" NOS sound. It probably measures like crap but i like it and I'm used to it. If the MQA/GTO firmware did not force 8x oversampling I would upgrade just to have the GTO filter option, but since it does force it, I will not upgrade for the time being. Still very nice of iFi to provide the (MQA) firmware upgrade to so many users of course


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Crossing my fingers for some Black Friday deals again this year. I'm also going back and forth between the iDAC2 and iDSD Black Label to compliment my iCAN SE. I don't really need the portability of the Black Label, so I'm leaning towards the iDAC2.


I think @iFi audio  already told us that the iDAC 2 as a DAC is decisively better than the original iDSD Micro, but I'd also like to see a showdown between the iDAC2 and the BL.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

WilliamLeonhart said:


> I think @iFi audio  already told us that the iDAC 2 as a DAC is decisively better than the original iDSD Micro, but I'd also like to see a showdown between the iDAC2 and the BL.


You're right, they have said this on multiple occasions. I think it will come down to whichever one I find the best deal on, I would prefer to find a good used iDAC2.


----------



## iFi audio

WilliamLeonhart said:


> I think @iFi audio  already told us that the iDAC 2 as a DAC is decisively better than the original iDSD Micro, but I'd also like to see a showdown between the iDAC2 and the BL.



Sound wise it is indeed, but it does one job, whereas iDSD machines, be it old or new, have many additional features.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart (Nov 7, 2018)

iFi audio said:


> Sound wise it is indeed, but it does one job, whereas iDSD machines, be it old or new, have many additional features.


Having own both I know that haha. I think I called the iDSD “the Swiss army knife of amp DACs” in the showdown that is still included in my signature


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> The firmwares that support MQA will also upsample x8 your music, so if you want to use bitperfect/NOS mode I would not upgrade.



This is incorrect.

5.30 does not upsample any audio except MQA handled by the MQA renderer component.

5.3C uses the DSP engine made available through MQA and upsamples all audio with sample rates below 352.8kHz to 8X using the iFi GTO Filter, instead of filters build into the DAC chip.

So:

for MQA and bitperfect please use 5.30 
for MQA and GTO filter please use 5.3C
for DSD512 & 768kHz capability please use 5.20


----------



## iFi audio

Also folks, the second biggest audio event in Europe and one of the biggest in general - Poland's *Audio Video Show* - starts in 9 days.

And we'll be there!



Where: *Warsaw (Poland)*
Where exactly: *The PGE Narodowy stadium, 1st floor*
When: *November 16-18, 2018*
If you're there, please visit us!


----------



## Baten

Thanks for the correction @iFi audio


----------



## normanl

Does firmware 5.3C support native DSD playback (128, 256 and 512)?


----------



## iFi audio

normanl said:


> Does firmware 5.3C support native DSD playback (128, 256 and 512)?



5.3X currently only supports DSD256 natively and up to 32bit/384kHz PCM.

Please use 5.2X if DSD512 is required.


----------



## afico

Hello Ian there a way in order to prevent that my BL drains my Huawei phone battery?


----------



## TheoS53

afico said:


> Hello Ian there a way in order to prevent that my BL drains my Huawei phone battery?



Update to the latest firmware, then be sure to turn the BL on before connecting it to your phone


----------



## afico

Thanks. 
Which is the latest? I read about  different 5.xx versions..


----------



## TheoS53

afico said:


> Thanks.
> Which is the latest? I read about  different 5.xx versions..



https://www.google.ae/search?q=ifi+.....69i57j0l5.5499j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


----------



## iFi audio

afico said:


> Thanks.
> Which is the latest? I read about  different 5.xx versions..



Here you can learn which of our firmwares does what: 

https://ifi-audio.com/downloads/

We encourage you to use 5.30C for any of our products aside Pro iDSD. This Frimware enables our in-house developed GTO filter.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, this is what we do this weekend:



 

If you're around, please come and say hi!


----------



## xanlamin

any deals for ifi idsd bl?


----------



## iFi audio

No time for rest at iFi if we want to bring close to you the latest in high quality audio gear!

This weekend you’ll be able to see us at the HXOS audio show in Athens, Greece! So make sure to drop on by and listen to all the iFi audio gear on display.







xanlamin said:


> any deals for ifi idsd bl?


https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10202276.jpg

iDSD LE, please see our FB page!


----------



## xanlamin

Thanks, but I'm looking for the iDSD Micro BL


----------



## iFi audio

Yup, HXOS and Athens are awesome!


----------



## Promenadeplatz

iFi audio said:


> So:
> 
> for MQA and bitperfect please use 5.30
> for MQA and GTO filter please use 5.3C
> for DSD512 & 768kHz capability please use 5.20




If one had nothing to do with MQA he should better stay with 5.20 on iDSD (old) .....right?


----------



## iFi audio

Promenadeplatz said:


> If one had nothing to do with MQA he should better stay with 5.20 on iDSD (old) .....right?



Yup.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, below you'll find some feedback we got from visitors during the AVS show, enjoy!


----------



## CANiSLAYu

I have upgraded my iFi iDSD Micro Black Label with firmware 5.3c and I’m trying to determine if MQA is working in iOS. Setup:


Tidal Hi-Fi via Roon > MacBook Pro > iDSD Micro BL > Audeze LCD2C

Tidal Hi-Fi via Roon > iPhone Xs > Apple CCK > iDSD Micro BL > Audeze LCD2C


I feel good that MQA is working when using my MacBook as the signal path shows:


 

When using the iPhone setup the signal path shows:


 

Is this working and Roon just isn’t showing the rendering step in the signal path? Or will it not because the iDSD BL is a renderer only and not a decoder? The lights on the iDSD BL aren’t any help because it’s always yellow with any audio, even just playing through th built in music app. It might be placbo, but I feel like the sound is better when using he MBP versus the iPhone. 


I just recently got a Google Pixel 3 for work, so I intend to try that and see what the signal path looks like, but I don’t have an OTG cable yet. Would this work on Android or have a similar issue?


Any insight is appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## fattymacgeek

Just want to give a shout-out to iFi for their excellent customer service! I had a battery problem with my unit a few months back but their support team was very helpful and prompt in handling the matter. I'm now back to enjoying my micro iDSD BL every night with all sorts of headphones and iems. The versatility and resolution continues to surprise me every time. Very interested to see what new devices they will introduce in the future. Good job @iFi audio !


----------



## tuyentien88

Which power mode is suitable for planar headphone like HE-560, HE-500? Should I use Turbo mode or Normal mode with higher volume point?


----------



## Baten

tuyentien88 said:


> Which power mode is suitable for planar headphone like HE-560, HE-500? Should I use Turbo mode or Normal mode with higher volume point?


Try normal first.

Make sure iematch is OFF OFF OFF

Iematch will make your planars cry.


----------



## audiofil

Normal mode is enough to drive them.
I listen to my HE-500 only in normal mode, usually between 11 and 2 o'clock on the pot. Anything past 3 o'clock is too much for me.
Turbo will give you more power, but less usable range in the (not so well balanced) volume pot. Personally, I'd avoid turbo unless it's absolutely needed.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Is the silvered (old) iDSD still state-of-the-art driving the HD800 ? .... Despite it is portable and the BCL is not, is it soundwise an option vs. the Lehmann?

I will use mine probably only for amplification with an external DAC, I forgot to mention.


----------



## iFi audio

fattymacgeek said:


> Good job @iFi audio !



Our pleasure!


----------



## iFi audio

Promenadeplatz said:


> Is the silvered (old) iDSD still state-of-the-art driving the HD800 ?



iDSD is still holding strong, but we won't lie to you, we have better stuff now


----------



## iFi audio

CANiSLAYu said:


> Or will it not because the iDSD BL is a renderer only and not a decoder? The lights on the iDSD BL aren’t any help because it’s always yellow with any audio, even just playing through th built in music app. It might be placbo, but I feel like the sound is better when using he MBP versus the iPhone.



All our MQA capable products are renderers, with exception of our flagship model - Pro iDSD - which does it all (MQA decoder +  renderer). That yellow LED is due to 5.30C firmware. It enabled our GTO filter (yellow light) and iDSD BL indicates MQA via yellow light as well.


----------



## iFi audio

tuyentien88 said:


> Which power mode is suitable for planar headphone like HE-560, HE-500? Should I use Turbo mode or Normal mode with higher volume point?



Please use the mode which gives you reasonable volume control, please use setting which allows you to achieve sufficiently high SPL while remainin within the range of 9 - 14 o'clock on your volume pot. Highly likely this will be normal mode.


----------



## iFi audio (Dec 2, 2018)

Folks...




*Silence in Seattle*

We all enjoy music, whether we’re at home, in the car or pounding the treadmill at the gym.

However, from time to time we all need time to enjoy some rest and relaxation. Whether that’s from music, television or, dare we say it, the better half.

So, whenever you need to unplug from the world around you, reach for the new *iFi* *Ear Plug*.





*The Tech Spec*

Premium 100% pure memory foam

Incredible 37dB noise reduction (62dB total noise reduction if used in conjunction with Noise-Cancellation headphones which offer 25dB noise reduction)
All *iFi Ear Plugs* come with a hard, clear plastic case with the option of purchasing an iPouch which stores both earplugs and your IEMs.

*The Art of Noise*

The following graph depicts the level of noise attenuated (reduced) in four situations:

i. Headphones Without ANC: 20dB reduction above 300kHz
ii. Headphones With ANC: 20dB attenuation from 40kHz to 1kHz
iii. iFi Ear Plugs: 30dB to 50dB reduction across the frequency range
iv. iFi Ear Plugs with Headphones with ANC: 40dB reduction up to 70dB reduction





It’s clear the *iFi Ear Plugs* alone are incredibly effective, and when coupled with NC headphones, they make an unbeatable team.

*Crybaby*

According to medical experts, a baby’s cry can reach up to 130dB. That’s only 10dB less than a jet engine on take-off!

It’s hardly a surprise then the sound of a crying baby can pierce your ears and sound so unpleasant.

We’ve all experienced extreme noise – and crying babies are a perfect example.





Picture this. You’re on a plane, you take off and – *BHAM *– a baby starts to cry because of the air pressure change in the cabin. Typically, this is anywhere up to 130dB (but this varies across the frequency range).

The graph below depicts the typical baby cry which from 300kHz to 8kHz surpasses 70dB – then charts the reduction in noise when an NC headphone and *iFi Ear Plug* are introduced.


 

With an NC headphone, this noise level is reduced by some 25dB to 40dB or so.

However, with the *iFi Ear Plug *and the NC headphones, the combined noise reduction brings the noise down to a barely perceptible 20dB - or even lower.





*What about ambient cabin noise?*

A primary objective of noise-cancellation headphones is to cancel out the ‘drumming’ of airplane ambient cabin noise of 60-80Hz. Premium ANC headphones reduce 25dB which brings this down to 30-50Hz. But if augmented with Earplugs, then the ambient noise is reduced to below 30dB which is better than a quiet room!

 

Now, that’s got to be music to anyone’s battered ears.

Full product info: https://ifi-audio.com/products/ifi-audio-ear-plugs/


----------



## CANiSLAYu

iFi audio said:


> All our MQA capable products are renderers, with exception of our flagship model - Pro iDSD - which does it all (MQA decoder +  renderer). That yellow LED is due to 5.30C firmware. It enabled our GTO filter (yellow light) and iDSD BL indicates MQA via yellow light as well.


So that explains why it’s always yellow, but any confirming/input regarding if MQA is working for the setup posted? Thank you.


----------



## Amalek6

might be lil off topic but  anyone here ever tried  to update the BL with a 2017 MBP and genuine apple 3,1usb to 2.0 adaptor ? (has USB 3.1 ports only) ?  Meaning the 5.30C   I have contacted ifi, telling me to use a windows machine.  Pretty weird, I cannot update a 2018 firmware because all my ports USB 3.1 . Downward-compatibility ?  Doess anyone els has this Mac related problem?  Thanks


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Amalek6 said:


> might be lil off topic but  anyone here ever tried  to update the BL with a 2017 MBP and genuine apple 3,1usb to 2.0 adaptor ? (has USB 3.1 ports only) ?  Meaning the 5.30C   I have contacted ifi, telling me to use a windows machine.  Pretty weird, I cannot update a 2018 firmware because all my ports USB 3.1 . Downward-compatibility ?  Doess anyone els has this Mac related problem?  Thanks


I have a 2018 MBP and I was unable to update my iDSD Micro BL.  I would get this error straight away firmware-fail-mac.png.  After a couple attempts I said screw it and ended up updating it on my son's Windows 10 laptop.


----------



## domho7

Hi I am presently having the Chord Mojo with Cayin DAP N5. Will the black label be as good as the Mojo. 
Tks.


----------



## Baten

domho7 said:


> Hi I am presently having the Chord Mojo with Cayin DAP N5. Will the black label be as good as the Mojo.
> Tks.


Depends on preference. iFi has more switches, bass toggle 3D sound toggle. Mojo is more sparkly/trebley supposedly, ifi more warm sounding imo.

I'm very happy with the iFi, love mine. Some swear by the mojo. One thing the ifi wins at, the mojo's battery really sucks. Many people have problems with it after some years, not built to last.


----------



## cardeli22

domho7 said:


> Hi I am presently having the Chord Mojo with Cayin DAP N5. Will the black label be as good as the Mojo.
> Tks.


If you search "Mojo" in this thread, you will find plenty of comparisons. The short answer is, like everything, some like the Mojo more, some like the BL more.


----------



## Amalek6

CANiSLAYu said:


> I have a 2018 MBP and I was unable to update my iDSD Micro BL.  I would get this error straight away firmware-fail-mac.png.  After a couple attempts I said screw it and ended up updating it on my son's Windows 10 laptop.


Same here ! Thanks for  the respond !


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Just received my brand new micro iDSD non-BL from an authorized vendor, wanted to register on ifi's website but there is no option. Dont you @iFi accept registrations for non-BL micro iDSD any longer?


----------



## Baten

Promenadeplatz said:


> Just received my brand new micro iDSD non-BL from an authorized vendor, wanted to register on ifi's website but there is no option. Dont you @iFi accept registrations for non-BL micro iDSD any longer?


Was wondering about this too. Mine came with a warranty card that had seemingly no serial no. ?


----------



## Promenadeplatz

I put mine directly to charging but I think there is a label on the downside of the iDSD with something that looks (to me) like a serial nr.


----------



## iFi audio

Promenadeplatz said:


> Just received my brand new micro iDSD non-BL from an authorized vendor, wanted to register on ifi's website but there is no option. Dont you @iFi accept registrations for non-BL micro iDSD any longer?



If you purchased it, then we'll handle it, no worries. Products discontinued (such as silver micro iDSD) are subject to one year warranty.


----------



## dharma

just tried to visit www.ifi-audio.com, but result with different browsers was just 'www.ifi-audio.com’s server IP address could not be found' or 'Unable to determine IP address from host name www.ifi-audio.com'.
Hope it's just small problem in 'www' or 'website maintaining'...


----------



## technobear

iFi audio said:


> If you purchased it, then we'll handle it, no worries. Products discontinued (such as silver micro iDSD) are subject to one year warranty.


If it was brand new from an authorised vendor, then under EU law it is warranted for 2 years by the vendor.


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Dec 4, 2018)

In B2C business only the starting 6 months the vendor having to prove the malfunction was NOT there from the beginning, thereafter customer has to prove it, which is often impossible, so only 6 months real warranty in EU.


----------



## EJ102

Check the box, i believe the serial number is on the back of it.


----------



## technobear

I've been having a hard time with my system lately. It's been sounding off. Lacking air and separation, even to the point that busy mixes sound harsh and confused. There has been a lack of involvement and boogie factor. I've checked all the connections and warmed everything up and still this persists. After a few tracks I want to stop listening and do something else as opposed to the usual just one more track and suddenly it's 3:00 in the morning. What could be wrong?

Then I remembered that I flashed all the iFi DACs with firmware 5.3C with the much lauded Gibbs Transient Optimised Digital Filter. Could that be the cause?

So I reflashed firmware 5.2 onto my iDAC2 (checking the filter switch was on Bit Perfect (NOS)) and normal service was instantly resumed. All the above mentioned complaints went away and the music returned in all it's fully separated, airy, involving glory.

So here is my review of 5.3C:

The GTO filter is pants. Long live Bit Perfect (NOS) - and not by a small amount!

Now I must reflash the others...


----------



## hamachan

technobear said:


> I've been having a hard time with my system lately. It's been sounding off. Lacking air and separation, even to the point that busy mixes sound harsh and confused. There has been a lack of involvement and boogie factor. I've checked all the connections and warmed everything up and still this persists. After a few tracks I want to stop listening and do something else as opposed to the usual just one more track and suddenly it's 3:00 in the morning. What could be wrong?
> 
> Then I remembered that I flashed all the iFi DACs with firmware 5.3C with the much lauded Gibbs Transient Optimised Digital Filter. Could that be the cause?
> 
> ...



Is that so?  I flashed the firmware to 5.3C for my iDAC2 since I had a good result for my new portable device xDSD, though the effect is small (at least my gear/ear).  GTO filter is noticeable only when I listen to CD grade source, not Hi-Res.  And I used to use Bid-Perfect position on 5.20, while I switched to Minimum Phase on 5.30C for iDAC2.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/page-63#post-14501613


----------



## Baten

technobear said:


> I've been having a hard time with my system lately. It's been sounding off. Lacking air and separation, even to the point that busy mixes sound harsh and confused. There has been a lack of involvement and boogie factor. I've checked all the connections and warmed everything up and still this persists. After a few tracks I want to stop listening and do something else as opposed to the usual just one more track and suddenly it's 3:00 in the morning. What could be wrong?
> 
> Then I remembered that I flashed all the iFi DACs with firmware 5.3C with the much lauded Gibbs Transient Optimised Digital Filter. Could that be the cause?
> 
> ...


5.3c oversamples the bitperfect  no more NOS sound


----------



## tinnitize

Hi Technobear,

it's a pitty that you failed to upgrade 5.3c properly!

I wonder why just you being techno versatile don't assume that there must have been a faulty upgrade proceeding because many and most others don't have any problems doing so. I invite you to look back at my post Nov 5, 2018 at 2:13 PM #8583 and the following two where I describe my impressions while listening to my music and gear (, BL) via GTO filter upgrade. So I'd like to ncourage you to try it another time, and if you failure again just open a ticket...

Ifi won't develop something not being able to work the way it should do, will they?

Good luck and cheers, yours since early

Tinntize


----------



## aerosuffly

Hi. I need a clarification on firmware 5.3c on the silver iDSD. With the upgrade, the iDSD will only have and use GTO filter, so it does not matter which filter you are selecting, correct?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

technobear said:


> I've been having a hard time with my system lately. It's been sounding off. Lacking air and separation, even to the point that busy mixes sound harsh and confused. There has been a lack of involvement and boogie factor. I've checked all the connections and warmed everything up and still this persists. After a few tracks I want to stop listening and do something else as opposed to the usual just one more track and suddenly it's 3:00 in the morning. What could be wrong?
> 
> Then I remembered that I flashed all the iFi DACs with firmware 5.3C with the much lauded Gibbs Transient Optimised Digital Filter. Could that be the cause?
> 
> ...


Was 5.2 the one it shipped with? I got my iDAC2 in 2015, sold it to a friend in 2016 and just got that very unit back last month


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, since it's almost holiday time...



 

Also we encourage you to check out our winter playlist in Tidal!

https://tidal.com/playlist/8c5a9a27-70df-4acf-8cd5-a3c938b757cf


----------



## iFi audio




----------



## iFi audio

*iFi audio – The 2018 Summary
It’s been quite the year…*

Dear community,

2018 is coming to an end and we’ve decided to use this occasion to share with all of you good people a word or two. Many of our product ideas were developed from what you had to say, so we’re extremely grateful for your support. You’re the fuel to our fire, thank you!

The end of the year is also a good time to summarize what we were able to achieve in the last 12 months. Without further ado, here’s what we did:

*Hardware*

•        *March – xDSD*



Before this product came to be, we knew that we had to develop something very different from what we’d done before. We thought about many things – toasters with built-in speakers, a wind-up DAC for use in the dessert…only kidding! We aimed for a portable device with wireless functionality as good as a wired connection, improved volume control and a new look. Suffice to say, we strongly believe that with xDSD we were able to deliver on all counts. The toaster has had to wait!

•        *May - Pro iDSD*



The Pro iDSD is the most ambitious and complex product of ours to date. It started many years ago as a rather simple machine, but the more time passed, the more advanced it became. After years of suffering (and here we mean both ours AND yours, just take poor Curtis as an example), the Pro iDSD eventually came into being as a state-of-the-art desktop platform loaded with so many features that it's far easier to list things it doesn't do! Not only this, but the Pro iDSD also has A LOT in common with AMR's upcoming Diablo DAC. The former is actually a scaled down version of the latter and we're exceptionally proud of how it turned out. 

•        *June - iFi OTG Cable*



We released this item due to huge demand. It's reliable, affordable, looks sleek and there's no rocket science behind it. It does the job where it should. It's useful. Hey, if we're capable of delivering headphone amps and DACs, who said that we can't make a quality OTG cable? And nope, before anyone asks, we can’t make the equivalent Apple cable – if we could, we (and the rest of the world) surely would!!! Sadly, Apple don’t share the tech that we’d need to make one work. Would you, if you were Apple?

•        *June - DC iPurifier2*



All our iPurifiers were developed to show that even a small and affordable item can really improve sound quality if backed by solid tech. The iPurifier2 is a step up over previous versions of this product, simply because our in-house developed circuitry got better over time. Practice makes perfect! 

·        *July - iPurifier3.0*



USB sorters have always been of utmost importance to us and the iPurifier3.0 shows our attitude towards these items. This product might look nothing like our nano or micro iUSB3.0 machines, but its roots are the very same. It was designed to audibly improve the USB interface and very positive feedback from you guys out there showed us that it does just that! Thank goodness!

•        *October – xCAN*



Yet again X marked the spot in October! We really looked forward to releasing the xCAN. On the surface, it resembles our xDSD; they have similar set of features and they look very much alike, but the differences end there. Yes, each has finely implemented Bluetooth receiver, DAC and headphone amp in one neat enclosure BUT the xCAN is a portable and fully analogue amplifier above ALL else and its D/A conversion option is a cherry on top, whereas the xDSD - a DAC in the first place - is the exact opposite. Plus these two can work as a team and we have photographic evidence from you guys to prove it!

•        *November - Ear Plugs*



This one you didn't expect, huh? Us neither. But then again, we like silence and it’s yet another way to give you guys a low noise floor! (Plus they can protect your ears from the squeaks of protest when your loved one finds out you’ve bought yet another piece of audio equipment!) We try to think of everything…

*Software*

•        *March - MQA firmware for all nano and micro products*

This firmware was one of the most important things for us in 2018. We didn't want to include MQA functionality in just one or two products, we wanted to roll things out across all suitable iFi goods, even some discontinued models. Even though the 5.30 'Cookies & Cream' firmware has some limitations, this is the one to go after if you'd like to listen to MQA regardless of the iFi audio DAC you use.

•        *October - GTO filter firmware for all nano and micro products*

The GTO filter was a tricky thing to develop, but in the end, it surely was worth the effort. To our ears it sounds amazing enough to surpass every other filter out there and we encourage everyone to give this one a try. Hey, it comes at nil cost, improves sound and if you don't like it, you can always use our previously released firmware. That's a win-win right there.

•        *November - Beta MQA firmware for the Pro iDSD*

Fully operational MQA on our Pro iDSD took us a fair bit longer than expected for a reason. (Poor Curtis was turning in his grave!). The amount of work needed in order to have this signal fully decoded was nothing short of staggering. Everything had to be coded from scratch. Both our team and MQA's engineers were involved in this project and we're ecstatic that we were able to finally have this functionality ready. Enjoy!



Additionally, one thing we’re very proud of is that we were able to push our head of sales out of the UK office for well-deserved holiday. Blindfolded, the man was in shock and had no idea where he was transported. Since no laptops or comms with his team were allowed, after the adventure he told us that withdrawal shivers kicked in hard. But once he got off the plane and acknowledged he was in Iceland… Long story’s short, after this trip he returned as a new man. Even though he’s a good lad, we didn’t miss him at all but shhh…


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 2, 2019)

Congrats and many thanks for aiding us on our Head-Fi journey


----------



## Vartan

iFi is the BEST


----------



## iFi audio

HungryPanda said:


> Conrgats and many thanks for aiding us on our Head-Fi journey



You're welcome!



Vartan said:


> iFi is the BEST



We're far too humble to agree with you on this, but keep 'em coming please


----------



## afico

hello guys,
any vclosed headphone to suggest that piars well with micro idsd? i didn' like Grado's with is..too shouty


----------



## phthora

afico said:


> hello guys,
> any vclosed headphone to suggest that piars well with micro idsd? i didn' like Grado's with is..too shouty



Some good options are MrSpeakers AEON Closed (neutral) or Audeze EL-8 (bright). Those headphones have the best isolation I've ever heard.

Of course, the BL drives everything and nearly everything matches up well with it, so you don't have to worry too much.


----------



## technobear

phthora said:


> Of course, the BL drives everything and nearly everything matches up well with it, so you don't have to worry too much.


Precisely. The iDSD really isn't part of the equation here. Just pick a headphone you like the sound of.

There are really too many great headphones to list in a thread that isn't about headphones. We are spoiled for choice! Try to get to a show or a dealer if you can. Or browse the Headphone forum:

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/headphones-full-size.4/?order=post_date


----------



## afico

the problem is that with a lot of heaphones i hear its 'house sound'..where the midrange is the star...too much for my tastes..


----------



## afico

Problem fixed.. 
Going back to 5.20 firmware ... It's another story   As different users reported in the past  
Now Ifi should clarify how they managed to make it sound worse with newest Mqa softwares!


----------



## iFi audio

afico said:


> Problem fixed..
> Going back to 5.20 firmware ... It's another story   As different users reported in the past
> Now Ifi should clarify how they managed to make it sound worse with newest Mqa softwares!



'Worse' is a very subjective term in audio


----------



## afico

Different . Ok?


----------



## afico (Jan 7, 2019)

Edit


----------



## Brava210

hi,

Can this be charged while it's in use?

Thanks Gary


----------



## phthora

Brava210 said:


> hi,
> 
> Can this be charged while it's in use?
> 
> Thanks Gary



On Eco, for sure. Normal and Turbo pull from the battery and from USB power, IIRC.


----------



## iFi audio

afico said:


> Different . Ok?



That's why we provide people with different FW options.


----------



## JM1979

domho7 said:


> Hi I am presently having the Chord Mojo with Cayin DAP N5. Will the black label be as good as the Mojo.
> Tks.



While my answer is very antecdotal, I’ve found that I prefer the Micro BL to the Mojo. Part of the reason is that I have LCD-3s and the extra power from the BL makes a big difference in driving the performance of the LCD-3s. 

I also found that the soundstage and depth of the music was significantly better on the BL. But soundstage is something I really appreciate. If it’s not a big deal to you then this may not matter. 

I’ve also found the BL to be more ‘fun’ meaning it was more musical, warm and has a deeper bass. 

And of course, all of this is based on using the devices as DACs + Amps as opposed to just DACS. 

The one thing I am learning in this hobby is that there are so many variables it’s hard to get an exact answer. Just take thing with a grain of salt, perhaps the feedback can help guide your direction but you really need to hear them for yourself to decide.


----------



## Dobrescu George

JM1979 said:


> While my answer is very antecdotal, I’ve found that I prefer the Micro BL to the Mojo. Part of the reason is that I have LCD-3s and the extra power from the BL makes a big difference in driving the performance of the LCD-3s.
> 
> I also found that the soundstage and depth of the music was significantly better on the BL. But soundstage is something I really appreciate. If it’s not a big deal to you then this may not matter.
> 
> ...



I agree with all those notes actually, I have Mojo and BL as well, and doing some comparisons. The soundstage on iDSD Micro BL is wider, and deeper, it has a more smooth overall sound, and it feels more deeper in the bass. It also has those X-Bass and 3D sound settings thingies. 

One thing Mojo does better is to be forward, it is a pretty forward sounding device.


----------



## technobear

Dobrescu George said:


> I agree with all those notes actually, I have Mojo and BL as well, and doing some comparisons. The soundstage on iDSD Micro BL is wider, and deeper, it has a more smooth overall sound, and it feels more deeper in the bass. It also has those X-Bass and 3D sound settings thingies.
> 
> One thing Mojo does better is to be forward, it is a pretty forward sounding device.


You're BL is still new I believe. You ain't heard nothin' yet!


----------



## JM1979

technobear said:


> You're BL is still new I believe. You ain't heard nothin' yet!



I’ve seen this mentioned in a few places online. What’s the typical amount of listening time for the BL to ‘break in’?

I’ve had a couple long listening sessions recently (3-4 hours) and I feel like at the 1 or 2 hour mark the BL went to new heights that I was not expecting. However, I also thought it might have been my brain adjusting to the sound and possibly the second glass of wine. 

But whatever it was, was amazing.


----------



## LightBlue77

Hi everyone,
i have a big problem with my unit.
Recently i bought an otg cable with usb-c end to connect the ifi micro as dac for my smartphone. i did but the sound was very unbalanced, very low on right channel.
Since then, when i use it as dac and plug it to my pc it sounds like this, the right channel is almost mute.
Nevertheless, as transport, amp only, via the 3.5mm input, the quality and volume of sound is still perfect.
i updated the firmware to the latest version but no change.
So...did i damage the usb with this otg cable...or? Since it is out of warranty, could an electronic engineer fix it?


----------



## Dobrescu George

technobear said:


> You're BL is still new I believe. You ain't heard nothin' yet!



I don't know, I wrote a review on it almost 2 years ago, I would hope I heard it pretty well  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2017/05/ifi-idsd-bl-pinnacle-of-dac-and-amp.html 



JM1979 said:


> I’ve seen this mentioned in a few places online. What’s the typical amount of listening time for the BL to ‘break in’?
> 
> I’ve had a couple long listening sessions recently (3-4 hours) and I feel like at the 1 or 2 hour mark the BL went to new heights that I was not expecting. However, I also thought it might have been my brain adjusting to the sound and possibly the second glass of wine.
> 
> But whatever it was, was amazing.



I think you discover it more and more, the more you listen, it is a device that is really hard to grow out of, part of its magic  



LightBlue77 said:


> Hi everyone,
> i have a big problem with my unit.
> Recently i bought an otg cable with usb-c end to connect the ifi micro as dac for my smartphone. i did but the sound was very unbalanced, very low on right channel.
> Since then, when i use it as dac and plug it to my pc it sounds like this, the right channel is almost mute.
> ...



You can try to contact iFi, they may be able to fix it even if you're not exceptionally within warranty. 

Have you tried a different cable? 

iFi makes their own kind of cables with OTG and Type-C, I would recommend those for iDSD BL Micro.


----------



## iFi audio

Keep 'em coming lads, we have our popcorn ready!


----------



## technobear

JM1979 said:


> I’ve seen this mentioned in a few places online. What’s the typical amount of listening time for the BL to ‘break in’?


Certainly not less than 200 hours. It might take 300. I had an iCAN SE that took that long to catch up with my well-used iCAN.


----------



## phthora

I've used mine for well over 400 hours (I know because of Foobar's tracking) and have noticed _no change_ in sound over that time. It sounded amazing out of the box; it sounds amazing now.

This idea: 



technobear said:


> You're BL is still new I believe. You ain't heard nothin' yet!



is ridiculous. I sincerely hope I am misreading that and you are not dismissing someone's perceptions of the BL simply because they have not heard for your arbitrarily determined number of hours...


----------



## LightBlue77

Dobrescu George said:


> Have you tried a different cable?
> iFi makes their own kind of cables with OTG and Type-C, I would recommend those for iDSD BL Micro.


The problem is that it has the broken sound while connected to pc. Before it was perfectly working.
Now only amp section does the job, seems the usb, dac section is broken.


----------



## Dobrescu George

LightBlue77 said:


> The problem is that it has the broken sound while connected to pc. Before it was perfectly working.
> Now only amp section does the job, seems the usb, dac section is broken.



AFAIK, this should mean that the USB input is broken, and not the DAC, so only the USB port at the back would need replacing. I am not sure most people could do it with a solder gun, but most probably the main circuit is okay 

@iFi audio iFi may be able to give better insight, as well as to say how much repairs for this would cost


----------



## LightBlue77

It would not be worth sending it to them but at list they could tell us how would this be possible: broken usb socket after connecting to smartphone via a Hama otg cable.


----------



## Dobrescu George

LightBlue77 said:


> It would not be worth sending it to them but at list they could tell us how would this be possible: broken usb socket after connecting to smartphone via a Hama otg cable.



I suspect it would be an inherent issue with OTG cable simply pulling on the pins of the socket, not an inherent issue, but if it has too much wiggle space, or sits in a bad position, may have broken something. 

Another thought is that there have been extremely few reports of this happening, so maybe the OTG had some kind of fault and shorted two pins, or something similar.


----------



## technobear

LightBlue77 said:


> The problem is that it has the broken sound while connected to pc. Before it was perfectly working.
> Now only amp section does the job, seems the usb, dac section is broken.


First you say it doesn't work when connected to a PC...



LightBlue77 said:


> It would not be worth sending it to them but at list they could tell us how would this be possible: broken usb socket after connecting to smartphone via a Hama otg cable.


...then you talk about connecting to a smartphone.

I'm confused. Which is it?

Problems with USB connection to a PC usually come down to one of two things:

1) You messed with the iFi driver settings and changed the USB Streaming Mode or the ASIO Buffer Size to values that don't work;

2) It's the cable (99% of all such cases are eventually boiled down to a faulty cable).

The USB inlet on the iDSD can be a bit wobbly, even with iFi's own supplied cable on which I wrap tape around the plug for a more secure fit.

Try it with another cable and the supplied adapter.


----------



## LightBlue77 (Jan 12, 2019)

Ok, the story is this: it was perfectly working as usb dac for pc with own supplied cable. I bought a hama otg to usb-c cable. I connected ifi micro to smartphone with this new cable. It was detected by the phone and music plays but it is bad. Since then sound is bad while also connected to pc with ifi cable. So most likely this otg cable broke some pins or some electronic piece inside usb or dac section, but i assume the usb socket was damaged.


----------



## cobrabucket

Hey guys. Long, rambling, detailed question to follow: I currently use 2 different DACs 1. SMSL SU-8 for Hi-Res and DSD and 2. Schiit Modi Multibit [Mimby] for 16 bit. I have BH Crack Tube amp, a Stax srm-t1 electrostatic tube amp and a THX 789. The nicest phones I own are the Koss 950, followed by Sennheiser 6XX and Argon Mk3. I want to know if you think it would be worth it to upgade my DAC. Ideally, I'd like to use 1 DAC for everything. I have heard videos comparing a Chord Qutest with RME ADI DAC2 and really like the thicker, fuller sound of the Qutest. How similar does the 2Cute sound to the Qutest? Would the Denafrips ARES be good at the Hi-Res audio? I know it could play it, just like the Mimby can play Hi-Res, but the Mimby doesn't really seem to give it anything "special" above that for technological reason I can't explain but have seen people discuss on the Mimby thread here. I think I saw somewhere that the ARES uses a 20-bit ladder. Is this right? If so, does that mean it would have diminishing reurns when dealing with Hi-Res PCM? Someone mentioned I might like the Ifi Micro iDSD BL, but it comes with an amp and I don't really need an extra amp. Someone else said the RME ADI2 DAC would be a good fit, but it also has an amp that I don't seem to need and in the videos referenced above, the Qutest seemed to sound better to me. Also seen someone saying SMSL VMV D1 should be considered. I do like the nice multibit bass sound of the Mimby but also like the clean, detailed sound of the SU-8. Maybe there is a best of both worlds? Would any of this even matter at the Mid-Fi level of equipment I am at? Would I be better served by saving up to get some upgraded phones [Aeolus, HD820 or Stax L700]? My head is spinning. I want it all, but must choose wisely. Need Guidance... Thanks!


----------



## technobear

cobrabucket said:


> TLDR: what DAC should I get?


It's no good spamming various threads on the WRONG forum. That won't get you an answer.



> *STOP! Post your "Help!", "Recommendations", "Looking for..." and other question threads in the new
> http://www.head-fi.org/f/7840/introductions-help-and-recommendations , not here.*


----------



## cobrabucket

technobear said:


> It's no good spamming various threads on the WRONG forum. That won't get you an answer.


Thanks for the help!


----------



## mozartino

Ciao ragazzi, sono nuovo di questa comunità, I would like to know the behavior by connecting it to the PC through toslink. Better or worse than the USB input? Thanks a lot


----------



## Tex Irie

@iFi audio are there any issues with firmware 5.30? For some reason I'm not seeing DSD 512 or sampling rates higher than 384 Khz in Roon on my Windows PC.


----------



## technobear

Tex Irie said:


> @iFi audio are there any issues with firmware 5.30? For some reason I'm not seeing DSD 512 or sampling rates higher than 384 Khz in Roon on my Windows PC.


Correct! You will need to revert to firmware 5.20 for those things (along with Bit Perfect operation).


----------



## Tex Irie

technobear said:


> Correct! You will need to revert to firmware 5.20 for those things (along with Bit Perfect operation).


Thank you @technobear. I'm loving the Micro iDSD BL with the Hifiman Ananda's.


----------



## iFi audio

LightBlue77 said:


> It would not be worth sending it to them but at list they could tell us how would this be possible: broken usb socket after connecting to smartphone via a Hama otg cable.



It's difficult to diagnose remortely what's wrong. We'd try different cables, associated devices etc., but ideally we'd point towards our support platform: http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> Correct! You will need to revert to firmware 5.20 for those things (along with Bit Perfect operation).


----------



## LightBlue77 (Jan 29, 2019)

iFi audio said:


> It's difficult to diagnose remortely what's wrong. We'd try different cables, associated devices etc., but ideally we'd point towards our support platform: http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php


true, i guess there are 2 possible scenarios, either usb pins were broken by otg cable, or some internal piece got burned...hopefully is the first one


----------



## iFi audio

LightBlue77 said:


> true, i guess there are 2 possible scenarios, either usb pins were broken by otg cable, or some internal piece got burned...hopefully is the first one



One of the two, but that's a guess at this stage. You opened a ticket, rrrrrright?


----------



## normanl

1. Does firmware 5.3c play DSD files natively and automatically 8X oversample DSD files with Micro iDSD BL? 
2. There are lots of click sound when I played DSD256, but not DSD64. Any solution for the DSD256 Problem?


----------



## Tex Irie

normanl said:


> 1. Does firmware 5.3c play DSD files natively and automatically 8X oversample DSD files with Micro iDSD BL?
> 2. There are lots of click sound when I played DSD256, but not DSD64. Any solution for the DSD256 Problem?


I can confirm downgrading the firmware to version 5.20 fixes the sample rate issue.


----------



## iFi audio (Jan 30, 2019)

normanl said:


> Does firmware 5.3c play DSD files natively and automatically 8X oversample DSD files with Micro iDSD BL?



DSD remains native. This might be interesting to you:

https://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-thorsten-loesch-amrifi


----------



## toughnut (Feb 11, 2019)

I read the FAQ on iFi site and Google for answer but not conclusive.

On Micro BL, all charging is done via Digital input port at the back. The SmartPower port only use to charge other devices ala power bank style (output only).

On blog below, this statement puzzled me. “In addition this can also charge & play from a PC/Mac. When playing in turbo mode this will charge the battery as fast as a standard USB port with the iDSD micro off, for lower power modes it charges faster.” Does it meant to use it under turbo mode and charging simultaneously, I need to have compatible externally powered USB hub?

https://ifi-audio.com/orico-high-power-usb-hub-one-sure-way-to-feed-the-meaty-monster/

Found the answer on post #3433
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ids...age-147-release-info-page-153.711217/page-229


----------



## iFi audio

toughnut said:


> I read the FAQ on iFi site and Google for answer but not conclusive.
> 
> On Micro BL, all charging is done via Digital input port at the back. The SmartPower port only use to charge other devices ala power bank style (output only).
> 
> ...



Hi there - Turbo will eventually flatten the battery as normal USB port cannot supply enough amps to maintain Turbo power consumption. Like drinking faster then a glass can be replenished. Then it is empty after a amount of time!


----------



## toughnut

iFi audio said:


> Hi there - Turbo will eventually flatten the battery as normal USB port cannot supply enough amps to maintain Turbo power consumption. Like drinking faster then a glass can be replenished. Then it is empty after a amount of time!



Understood that. I somehow confused with external hub requirement. If my laptop USB port rated for quick charging, it should do the same job as externally powered USB hub. Thanks for the awesome product.


----------



## iFi audio

toughnut said:


> Understood that. I somehow confused with external hub requirement. If my laptop USB port rated for quick charging, it should do the same job as externally powered USB hub. Thanks for the awesome product.



No problem. Glad we could help.


----------



## joeydgraffix

I just got the Ifi DSD (silver) version. Everytime I try to use the RCA input everytime I plug in my headphones the light goes from green to blinking green. Unit is 100% charged but I can’t seem to figure out what’s going on. Has anyone had this problem? Not sure if the seller I bought it from is lying about the condition it was in or if I”m doing something wrong. I tried the rca connection on my ipad, imac and ps4 and keep getting the same problem. Tried different rca cables and still the same problem.


----------



## cardeli22

joeydgraffix said:


> I just got the Ifi DSD (silver) version. Everytime I try to use the RCA input everytime I plug in my headphones the light goes from green to blinking green. Unit is 100% charged but I can’t seem to figure out what’s going on. Has anyone had this problem? Not sure if the seller I bought it from is lying about the condition it was in or if I”m doing something wrong. I tried the rca connection on my ipad, imac and ps4 and keep getting the same problem. Tried different rca cables and still the same problem.


I believe the RCA ports are output only. To have analog audio input you need to use the 3.5mm input in the front by the volume knob. You would need a RCA to 3.5mm cable


----------



## TheoS53

joeydgraffix said:


> I just got the Ifi DSD (silver) version. Everytime I try to use the RCA input everytime I plug in my headphones the light goes from green to blinking green. Unit is 100% charged but I can’t seem to figure out what’s going on. Has anyone had this problem? Not sure if the seller I bought it from is lying about the condition it was in or if I”m doing something wrong. I tried the rca connection on my ipad, imac and ps4 and keep getting the same problem. Tried different rca cables and still the same problem.



The RCA connection is clearly labelled as an output


----------



## joeydgraffix

Yea I'm an idiot. Everything is working 100% now. 

I'm really disappointed in the sound though. I expected this to be much better than my XDUOO-XD05 I sold for this.. The bass is more muddy & slower.  I wonder if I should of went with the Mojo.


----------



## Baten

joeydgraffix said:


> Yea I'm an idiot. Everything is working 100% now.
> 
> I'm really disappointed in the sound though. I expected this to be much better than my XDUOO-XD05 I sold for this.. The bass is more muddy & slower.  I wonder if I should of went with the Mojo.


The input is really just an afterthought to be used with an iPod etc. It is not representative... use it as an all in one.

Mojo sounds more shrill to me, but I have the BL micro not the silver.


----------



## joeydgraffix

Baten said:


> The input is really just an afterthought to be used with an iPod etc. It is not representative... use it as an all in one.
> 
> Mojo sounds more shrill to me, but I have the BL micro not the silver.



I was hoping the Mojo would of been more laid back. The Xbass is barely noticeable and the 3d just seems like it pushes the sound to the sides and boosts treble while leaving the center soundstage toned down alot.  

Seems like no matter what stuff I get I can't really seem to find that sweet spot.


----------



## Baten

joeydgraffix said:


> I was hoping the Mojo would of been more laid back. The Xbass is barely noticeable and the 3d just seems like it pushes the sound to the sides and boosts treble while leaving the center soundstage toned down alot.
> 
> Seems like no matter what stuff I get I can't really seem to find that sweet spot.


I had the same issue. Found my sweet spot in Holo spring RCA -> THX AAA -> balanced output.


----------



## joeydgraffix

Baten said:


> I had the same issue. Found my sweet spot in Holo spring RCA -> THX AAA -> balanced output.



I bet if I went with more desktop stuff I would maybe find what I'm looking for. Except I listen to most of my music away from my desk. I have my speakers for my desk but when I want to listen to headphones I just hate having to be at my desk as to a more relaxed spot. 

I still wish the LCD2c's worked for me. With all the headphones/amps/dap's I've had, the soundstage of the 2c's that made the sounds so holographic sounding I miss the most.


----------



## LightBlue77

Use it as usb dac not for transport only. My idsd silver sounds fantastic with lcd2f.


----------



## iFi audio

cardeli22 said:


> I believe the RCA ports are output only.



Yup, that's correct.


----------



## nicholars (Feb 21, 2019)

Removed wrong thread


----------



## nicholars (Feb 21, 2019)

Removed wrong thread


----------



## Vartan

Guys what you think about RHA CL750 with iDSD BL micro, has anyone tried??
(Mostly for metal music)


----------



## hag6

I have just added an Auralic Aries Mini server to my Ifi set up. This consists of the original (silver) idsd micro dac/amp & micro iusb 3 connected by the original Gemini cable. I’m feeding the Aries Mini with a WD passport HDD. I am considering changing this to an internal ssd.I have a few questions concerning the cabling and options to upgrade.

1. The Gemini is terminated with a usb type B plug which requires an adapter in order to connect to the male A usb input socket of the idsd. I am using the supplied ifi adapter. Doesn’t this negate the benefits of the Gemini? Is there a reason that the Gemini isn’t the terminated with a female usb plug in order to be fully compliant with the idsd?

2.  I am using the supplied blue usb cable to connect the usb output of the Aries Mini to the input of the iusb 3. Has anyone with this, or a similar set up upgraded this cable and experienced any improvement?

3.  Power supply upgrade. I’m using the standard PSU with the Aries and the iusb 3 is supplied by the ipower. Since the iusb 3 is cleaning the output of the Aries/hdd would I benefit from upgrading the Aries’s PSU. Has anyone with this, or a similar set up upgraded to the ipower 15v, Auralic PSU or Sbooster in conjunction with the iusb 3?

Any comments/suggestions appreciated


----------



## Toyboyo (May 3, 2019)

oops wrong thread


----------



## max1236

I saw some people talking about the gto filter for the 5.3c update whats everyones thoughts on it? Does this filter replace bitperfect? do some people prefer the old filter? I also saw some people were having technical issues with the update, any updates on that. asking because I just bought a micro black label going to have it soon


----------



## Baten

max1236 said:


> I saw some people talking about the gto filter for the 5.3c update whats everyones thoughts on it? Does this filter replace bitperfect? do some people prefer the old filter? I also saw some people were having technical issues with the update, any updates on that. asking because I just bought a micro black label going to have it soon


Bitperfect is no longer possible on MQA firmware. So if you want NOS treble roll-off, listen to bitperfect first and see if you like it. Otherwise try the GTO.. I personally heard little difference between GTO and minimum phase.

If you upgrade you can always return to older firmware though. it's very easy just follow instructions.


----------



## iFi audio

max1236 said:


> Does this filter replace bitperfect?



Yes, our GTO replaces bitperfect.


----------



## hamachan (May 12, 2019)

max1236 said:


> I saw some people talking about the gto filter for the 5.3c update whats everyones thoughts on it? Does this filter replace bitperfect? do some people prefer the old filter? I also saw some people were having technical issues with the update, any updates on that. asking because I just bought a micro black label going to have it soon


See my briefed impression of GTO filter introduced by 5.30C firmware for xDSD.  I also updated micro iDAC2 as well.  No technical issue and I am happy with it.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/page-63#post-14501613


----------



## iFi audio

hamachan said:


> See my briefed impression of GTO filter introduced by 5.30C firmware for xDSD. I also updated micro iDAC2 as well. No technical issue and I am happy with it.


----------



## EJ102

iFi audio said:


> Yes, our GTO replaces bitperfect.


I thought GTO replaces minimum phase?


----------



## technobear

EJ102 said:


> I thought GTO replaces minimum phase?


It replaces both.


----------



## mightytison

With 5.30C if I up-sample to max PCM in Roon Player or HQ Player does the Micro Black Label still use the Gibbs filter or is it essentially bypassed?


----------



## Baten

mightytison said:


> With 5.30C if I up-sample to max PCM in Roon Player or HQ Player does the Micro Black Label still use the Gibbs filter or is it essentially bypassed?


From 352/384Khz the DAC no longer oversamples at all (so no further manipulation).


----------



## Ddhead

Anyone knows if the Digital Filter (Bit Perfect, Min Phase, Standard) works with Line Out Direct mode?


----------



## Baten

Ddhead said:


> Anyone knows if the Digital Filter (Bit Perfect, Min Phase, Standard) works with Line Out Direct mode?


Of course


----------



## technobear (Jun 4, 2019)

Ddhead said:


> Anyone knows if the Digital Filter (Bit Perfect, Min Phase, Standard) works with Line Out Direct mode?


Only on firmware up to and including 5.2.

On firmware 5.3, the switch appears to be redundant. You can read more here: https://ifi-audio.com/downloads/ about half way down the page.

Edit: there is nothing stopping you going back to 5.2


----------



## Vartan

Ddhead said:


> Anyone knows if the Digital Filter (Bit Perfect, Min Phase, Standard) works with Line Out Direct mode?


Yes, if you play PCM files


----------



## tcellguy

I'm seeing warnings on the site about not updating the firmware unless "necessary" and "Firmware updates inherently carry risk of damage to the unit and of voiding your warranty". Is updating the firmware not a supported pathway that voids the warranty? I'm confused.


----------



## iFi audio

tcellguy said:


> I'm seeing warnings on the site about not updating the firmware unless "necessary" and "Firmware updates inherently carry risk of damage to the unit and of voiding your warranty". Is updating the firmware not a supported pathway that voids the warranty? I'm confused.



Warranty might be voided if wrong FW is applied to wrong machine. Point being, if FW is applied to the correct machine, no warranty is lost.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, something from our friends at NativeDSD:

We are pleased to announce the availability of Native DSD Presents 5 Tracks in DSD 512. The album brings you some of the highest quality DSD 256 stereo recordings from the NativeDSD Music catalog in DSD 512 stereo.

This special album made its debut at 2019 High End Munich. It is an album that will bring owners of DSD 512 capable Portable Players and DACs (Digital to Analog Converters) from iFi Audio some amazing DSD 512 listening experiences.

*NativeDSD has given iFi Audio permission to share 1 track with you for free, as an instant download in this Dropbox folder:*
*https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uynhtxephlr7dpu/AAB6lv2iOP8WOZfKbhKeWqNXa?dl=0*

*The Track in DSD 512: Yuko Mabuchi Plays Miles Davis – Milestones

Recorded and Released by Yarlung Records, with special thanks to Bob Attiyeh. *Yuko Mabuchi Plays Miles Davis is a tribute to the music of legendary Jazz trumpeter Miles Davis. It features 5 tracks written by Miles Davis plus 3 original compositions by Yuko Mabuchi. For this special album, recorded live in concert in Stereo and Multichannel DSD 256, the Yuko Mabuchi Trio - Yuko Mabuchi (piano), Del Atkins (bass) and Bobby Breton (drums) - is joined by trumpeter JJ Kirkpatrick from the Sophisticated Lady Jazz Quartet. With this line-up of musicians, it is a musical adventure you won't want to miss.
*
If you want to hear more, you can check out their 5 Tracks in DSD 512 sampler, available for only 10 USD.*

*https://nativedsd.com/albums/NDSD013-nativedsd-presents-5-tracks-in-dsd-512** 



 *

Included in the collection are performances by Les Chats Noirs, Yuko Mabuchi Trio with JJ Kirkpatrick, Rachel Podger with Brecon Baroque, Ricardo Gallen, and the Feenbrothers. The music covers a variety of styles and genres including French Vocal and Chanson, Jazz Quartets, Classical Ensemble, and Guitar.

These higher bit rate DSD 512 tracks are all pure DSD created. They are not up samplings, for there are no PCM or DXD conversions involved in their production. They are re-modulations of the original DSD 256 encoding modulation that produced the DSD 256 releases. The sonic advantage to these new Stereo DSD 512 releases, as with all higher DSD bit rate releases, is the wider frequency passband prior to the onset of modulation noise. This results in the listener’s DAC using gentler and more phase linear filters for playback of the music.

The resulting DSD 512 music files were monitored with a DSD 512 Stereo system that included HiFiMan HE-1000 Stereo Headphones with Lazuli HF Headphone Cables by Dana Cable and the *iFi Audio iDSD Micro Black Label Headphone Amp and DAC* (available for purchase at the NativeDSD Gear Store).

*We want to thank the labels Forward Music Italy, Yarlung Artists, Channel Classics, Eudora and Sound Liaison for their participation in this project.*

Don’t forget to share your thoughts on the DSD 512 listening experience!

Or go straight to *More Music in DSD 512*


----------



## max1236

Will the micro stay alive if left on normal but musics only playing like half the time? or will it always slowly die. assuming your using the no sleep software, has any one tested this? If not What usb hubs are everyone using ?


----------



## iFi audio

max1236 said:


> Will the micro stay alive if left on normal but musics only playing like half the time? or will it always slowly die. assuming your using the no sleep software, has any one tested this? If not What usb hubs are everyone using ?



It will eventually die. But left for 15 minutes it will begin to charge.


----------



## ddmt

So I have this ifi micro idsd BL that won't connect to computer. 
- I've tried 3 windows desktops & 2 macbooks and none of them recognise when I plug-in the ifi micro idsd.
- On windows I've tried both the latest driver and the one version before that.
- I've tried multiple cables, the blue one & both usb converters that come with the micro idsd
- I've tried to connect through a usb hub
- I've charged for 24 hours as some suggested

The analog input works OK. The led is solid green when I plug into the computer.
Do I have a dud unit? I've submitted a support ticket and no answer yet.
Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

ddmt said:


> So I have this ifi micro idsd BL that won't connect to computer.
> - I've tried 3 windows desktops & 2 macbooks and none of them recognise when I plug-in the ifi micro idsd.
> - On windows I've tried both the latest driver and the one version before that.
> - I've tried multiple cables, the blue one & both usb converters that come with the micro idsd
> ...



Can you please shoot us a message here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php

Our staff will get back to you shortly in there and will do their best to sort you out!


----------



## ddmt

iFi audio said:


> Can you please shoot us a message here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/index.php
> 
> Our staff will get back to you shortly in there and will do their best to sort you out!



Hi, I've opened a support ticket (#889207) 2 days ago and hasn't receive any response yet. Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

ddmt said:


> Hi, I've opened a support ticket (#889207) 2 days ago and hasn't receive any response yet. Thanks.



It might take up to 48hrs, but we'll ask out tech staff on your behalf.


----------



## AutumnCrown

This is probably a long shot, but has anyone measured max volume output of the IDSD micro and HD800 on eco mode? If the 102 dB/V sensitivity is correct, it should be about 109 dB, but can anyone confirm this? I would like to have a reference so I can tell exactly how loud I am listening.


----------



## Brooko

AutumnCrown said:


> This is probably a long shot, but has anyone measured max volume output of the IDSD micro and HD800 on eco mode? If the 102 dB/V sensitivity is correct, it should be about 109 dB, but can anyone confirm this? I would like to have a reference so I can tell exactly how loud I am listening.



You can't tell by that - it depends on the mastering of the recording.  For someone to measure it - they'd need the exact same recording plus need to know the settings on your player so they could replicate.


----------



## AutumnCrown (Jul 24, 2019)

Brooko said:


> You can't tell by that - it depends on the mastering of the recording.  For someone to measure it - they'd need the exact same recording plus need to know the settings on your player so they could replicate.



I'm taking a reference tone from here: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiofrequencysignalgenerator_sinetone.php

but knocking it down to a listenable level, say -30dB, With the volume all the way up, this should be 80 dB on full volume of the eco mode of IDSD micro, if it puts out about 2 volts maximum.


----------



## kingdixon

I haven't been using my idsd micro lately for over 2 month and i think i faced the problem with the over discharge and flat battery, it didn't want to charge, i read about the issue didn't understand the procedure quite well, so i left it charging for 24 hours with no luck .. then i read more into the subject and found more detailed procedure by ifi that worked for me, i wanted to mention it here so if anyone had the same problem.

while charging a flat battery it will be blinking blue, it should only take around 60 minutes to turn to steady blue and start charging normally, if 60 minutes passed and it is still blinking blue, you should remove the usb cable, wait for 30 seconds then connect it back and leave it charging again for 60 minutes, if still didn't turn to steady blue, you should repeat the procedure as needed until the led turns to steady blue, it can take up to 5 cycles to work, if more than that the battery can be dead.

i had to repeat the procedures 3 times and on the fourth time, it turned steady blue and started charging normally.

i have a question though, if i am going to shelve it for a long time, is there some procedure to avoid this because i read it harms the battery, or should i just recharge it once every month or so ?


----------



## iFi audio

kingdixon said:


> i have a question though, if i am going to shelve it for a long time, is there some procedure to avoid this because i read it harms the battery, or should i just recharge it once every month or so ?



If it gets discharged once in a while, that's not very harmful, no worries.


----------



## jooonnn

Just ordered one of these the other day, but having trouble sifting through the comments on what the ideal USB connection for PC is.  The package states it has a few usb female adapters.  im mostly wondering between using USB A and B, and USB 2.0/3.0.  All help appreciated!


----------



## technobear

jooonnn said:


> Just ordered one of these the other day, but having trouble sifting through the comments on what the ideal USB connection for PC is.  The package states it has a few usb female adapters.  im mostly wondering between using USB A and B, and USB 2.0/3.0.  All help appreciated!


A cable is included in the box.

Adapters are included in case you want to use a diferent cable.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Is there a tool. available which browses my music library and tells me which albums are available on MQA format?


----------



## technobear

Promenadeplatz said:


> Is there a tool. available which browses my music library and tells me which albums are available on MQA format?


This is possible with MediaMonkey.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

Cool, thanks!!!


----------



## jooonnn

technobear said:


> A cable is included in the box.
> 
> Adapters are included in case you want to use a diferent cable.



Yes, understood, but my question was which connection was “ideal” or “recommended” between the cables that are included.


----------



## Promenadeplatz

technobear said:


> This is possible with MediaMonkey.



Just downloaded the free version .... how do I do that searching for MQA albums?


----------



## technobear

Promenadeplatz said:


> Just downloaded the free version .... how do I do that searching for MQA albums?


Right-click on the column headings and add a column for 'Extension'. Then click that heading to sort on it.


----------



## Promenadeplatz (Aug 12, 2019)

No, I don't want to see which of my albums are MQA (actually I didn't bought any so far), I wanted to see which of them are published/available in MQA so I could buy/try some if I hear a difference.


----------



## thebkt

jooonnn said:


> Yes, understood, but my question was which connection was “ideal” or “recommended” between the cables that are included.


The supplied USB cable hooked up to PC works great!  I haven't ever tried a direct comparison between it and optical, but USB sounds great either way.


----------



## tcellguy

I tried Eitr into the optical and it sounded better than USB in. That of course reduces the portability however. The iPurifier gives a sonic benefit over USB but it nukes my computer battery (2x faster burn rate) so I don’t use it if running fully off battery.


----------



## iFi audio

tcellguy said:


> The iPurifier gives a sonic benefit over USB



We're very happy how this one turned out, but since it's active, it has to take some juice off your machine.


----------



## tcellguy (Aug 12, 2019)

iFi audio said:


> We're very happy how this one turned out, but since it's active, it has to take some juice off your machine.



Yeah fully expected, any active dongle accessory can drain the internal laptop battery.

I should also mention that the iSilencer works well too and doesn't drain my battery appreciably. It can be used with an iPhone using the camera connection kit without drawing too much power for the phone. 

However the iPurifier creates a much quieter background and an provides more instrument separation. It's a great compact solution that I use when I have access to a power outlet.


----------



## Womaz

I am considering the micro BL to use with my iPhone XR and HEK and HD800s headphones . How would I connect this to my phone . ? Do I need the Apple camera USB adapter ? 

Also read a few reviews that state the first 2 seconds of a new track are muted ?? Surely not ?? If this is the case no one would buy it surely ..

Any guidance welcome


----------



## tcellguy

Either camera connection kit works. There is one with a USB power in so you can charge the iPhone at the same time, another is a simple connection cable.

The 2 seconds of muting is only on starting music on the device each session. It doesn't return unless you pause/restart. It doesn't happen with track changes and isn't a big deal.


----------



## Jearly410

tcellguy said:


> Either camera connection kit works. There is one with a USB power in so you can charge the iPhone at the same time, another is a simple connection cable.
> 
> The 2 seconds of muting is only on starting music on the device each session. It doesn't return unless you pause/restart. It doesn't happen with track changes and isn't a big deal.


Have you personally tried using the single port camera cable? Ive not been able to use mine for several iOs versions now, on both 6s+ and XR.


----------



## tcellguy (Aug 13, 2019)

Jearly410 said:


> Have you personally tried using the single port camera cable? Ive not been able to use mine for several iOs versions now, on both 6s+ and XR.



Yeah I have a couple of them and they both work with the iDSD and DFR. I think the single port version was disabled for some time a few years ago, but I bought one of the cables from the Apple website in 7/2018 and it has worked since then (model number MD821AM/A). I think you need to be on iOS 12 and also have to authenticate the phone (passcode, touchID, faceID) to allow use of the peripheral.

The cables break easily if bent unfortunately so getting it to work in a pocket with the DFR is a bit hit and miss. I haven't tried the single port version in a few months so I can verify again soon that it still works.

Update; yes it still works great with the iDSD. @Jearly410 maybe your connector has a wire fracture?


----------



## HungryPanda

If there is one thing head-fi has taught me is that Apple hates audiophiles


----------



## Womaz

Jearly410 said:


> Have you personally tried using the single port camera cable? Ive not been able to use mine for several iOs versions now, on both 6s+ and XR.



Which one do you use successfully ? I may take the plunge today


----------



## Jearly410

tcellguy said:


> Yeah I have a couple of them and they both work with the iDSD and DFR. I think the single port version was disabled for some time a few years ago, but I bought one of the cables from the Apple website in 7/2018 and it has worked since then (model number MD821AM/A). I think you need to be on iOS 12 and also have to authenticate the phone (passcode, touchID, faceID) to allow use of the peripheral.
> 
> The cables break easily if bent unfortunately so getting it to work in a pocket with the DFR is a bit hit and miss. I haven't tried the single port version in a few months so I can verify again soon that it still works.



Interesting. Mine was bought 2+ years ago (same model number) so there was a hidden update to the hardware perhaps?



Womaz said:


> Which one do you use successfully ? I may take the plunge today



I use the fat usb3.0 adapter, one port to charge and one for the usb cable into the black label.


----------



## Womaz (Aug 13, 2019)

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MK0W2ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

This one?

I I get the micro BL is everything else included in the package to be able to use with my iPhone ?


----------



## iFi audio

tcellguy said:


> However the iPurifier creates a much quieter background and an provides more instrument separation.



You nailed it. Quietness in background and everything more visible is what USB sorters should do.


----------



## Jearly410

Womaz said:


> https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MK0W2ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter
> 
> This one?
> 
> I I get the micro BL is everything else included in the package to be able to use with my iPhone ?



Correct


----------



## kaushama

iFi audio said:


> You nailed it. Quietness in background and everything more visible is what USB sorters should do.


Does one has to use it, if IUSB3 in already in operation in the chain?


----------



## technobear

kaushama said:


> Does one has to use it, if IUSB3 in already in operation in the chain?


Assuming your 'it' is iPurifier2/3:

Depends what cable is between iUSB3 and your DAC.

If it's Gemini, then probably no.

If it's a printer cable, then probably yes.


----------



## kaushama

@iFi audio Do we have to use iPurifier if we use IUSB3? I have an ICAN SE. Would it and iTube 2 benefit from DC iPurifier? They are already being supplied by stock iPower.


----------



## iFi audio

kaushama said:


> @iFi audio Do we have to use iPurifier if we use IUSB3? I have an ICAN SE. Would it and iTube 2 benefit from DC iPurifier? They are already being supplied by stock iPower.



If we're talking USB sorters, then micro iUSB3.0 is the best one in our offer and if one has it already, then iPurifier is excessive.


----------



## kaushama

iFi audio said:


> If we're talking USB sorters, then micro iUSB3.0 is the best one in our offer and if one has it already, then iPurifier is excessive.


OK. What about power lines? If iTUBE and iCan use IPower adapters, would it be useful to add DC purifier to the chain?


----------



## technobear

kaushama said:


> OK. What about power lines? If iTUBE and iCan use IPower adapters, would it be useful to add DC purifier to the chain?


No.


----------



## mozartino

Hi guys,
I have some problems. Probably problems have already been processed but cannot read 585 pages, I apologies for that.
First of all I'm charging my unit for a lot of hours but blue led is still on...how long it takes, usually, for a full charge? 
Second question: I tried to play differents format like DST 64, 128, 256  /  FLAC 44Khz, 96, 352 but led color is always blue. Shouldn't I have seen different colors? Is there something that doesn't work? Or am I wrong about something? Or should I change something in the players' settings? I use Foobar, AIMP from pc and Foobar, HiByMusic from android smartphone. The current firmware is 5.3. Thanks for your help.


----------



## iFi audio

mozartino said:


> Hi guys,
> I have some problems. Probably problems have already been processed but cannot read 585 pages, I apologies for that.
> First of all I'm charging my unit for a lot of hours but blue led is still on...how long it takes, usually, for a full charge?
> Second question: I tried to play differents format like DST 64, 128, 256 / FLAC 44Khz, 96, 352 but led color is always blue. Shouldn't I have seen different colors? Is there something that doesn't work? Or am I wrong about something? Or should I change something in the players' settings? I use Foobar, AIMP from pc and Foobar, HiByMusic from android smartphone. The current firmware is 5.3. Thanks for your help.



Let's start by asking which product of ours you use.


----------



## mozartino

Micro bl


----------



## florence (Aug 28, 2019)

If I need just amplifier section of idsd micro bl, is this the only way; idsd (3.5mm) to a dac (rca cable)?


----------



## Baten

florence said:


> If I need just amplifier section of idsd micro bl, is this the only way; idsd (3.5mm) to a dac (rca cable) and switch the button below to preamp?


The RCA input of the ifi BL sounds pretty bad and is overloaded very easily, it is meant to be used with an ipod or similar.

Don't get the BL if you aren't going to use it as a dac/amp combo... just don't.


----------



## florence

Baten said:


> The RCA input of the ifi BL sounds pretty bad and is overloaded very easily, it is meant to be used with an ipod or similar.
> 
> Don't get the BL if you aren't going to use it as a dac/amp combo... just don't.


I already have idsd micro black since the beginning. The only thing I'd like to know is how to pair it with a single end dac. I haven't done it yet before that's why I ask. Thanks.


----------



## Baten (Aug 28, 2019)

florence said:


> I already have idsd micro black since the beginning. The only thing I'd like to know is how to pair it with a single end dac. I haven't done it yet before that's why I ask. Thanks.


You can try it but my experience was poor. Dac/amp = great, but as amp via input = poor sounding when you feed it 2V from a DAC. And nearly all DACs output 2V or even more...


----------



## tcellguy

iFi audio said:


> Warranty might be voided if wrong FW is applied to wrong machine. Point being, if FW is applied to the correct machine, no warranty is lost.



OK. The site says "Only use sub version 5.2A on the micro iDAC2, nano iDSD, iDSD LE, *iDSD BL*,  iOne and xDSD." Does that mean that the last supported firmware version for the iDSD micro BL is 
‘Limoncello’ 5.2a & 5.2b (sub- versions)?


----------



## technobear

tcellguy said:


> OK. The site says "Only use sub version 5.2A on the micro iDAC2, nano iDSD, iDSD LE, *iDSD BL*,  iOne and xDSD." Does that mean that the last supported firmware version for the iDSD micro BL is
> ‘Limoncello’ 5.2a & 5.2b (sub- versions)?


No.


----------



## technobear

mozartino said:


> Hi guys,
> I have some problems. Probably problems have already been processed but cannot read 585 pages, I apologies for that.
> First of all I'm charging my unit for a lot of hours but blue led is still on...how long it takes, usually, for a full charge?


It's a big battery. It can take a long time. Just keep charging.



mozartino said:


> Second question: I tried to play differents format like DST 64, 128, 256  /  FLAC 44Khz, 96, 352 but led color is always blue. Shouldn't I have seen different colors? Is there something that doesn't work? Or am I wrong about something? Or should I change something in the players' settings? I use Foobar, AIMP from pc and Foobar, HiByMusic from android smartphone. The current firmware is 5.3. Thanks for your help.


Sounds like you might have firmware 5.3C there. If you want bit-perfect operation, install firmware 5.2. 

Go here for firmware: https://ifi-audio.com/downloads/


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> It's a big battery. It can take a long time. Just keep charging.
> 
> 
> Sounds like you might have firmware 5.3C there. If you want bit-perfect operation, install firmware 5.2.
> ...



Thanks! Always on duty here at HF, aren't you  ?


----------



## technobear

iFi audio said:


> Thanks! Always on duty here at HF, aren't you  ?


LOL. Actually I've been off grid in a field in Cornwall for the last week but I'm re-attached to the matrix now and catching up.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> LOL. Actually I've been off grid in a field in Cornwall for the last week but I'm re-attached to the matrix now and catching up.



You're like a superhero character to us. Yo know, strong silent scary type into short answers, and always there when needed. Kudos.


----------



## tcellguy

technobear said:


> No.



Thanks so to what does that sub 5.2 refer then? Sorry I just don’t want to “brick” this (hah).


----------



## technobear

tcellguy said:


> Thanks so to what does that sub 5.2 refer then? Sorry I just don’t want to “brick” this (hah).


Perhaps it is lost in translation. It means that 5.2A can only be used on those listed devices, not on any other devices.


----------



## tcellguy

technobear said:


> Perhaps it is lost in translation. It means that 5.2A can only be used on those listed devices, not on any other devices.


OK, that makes sense. Thanks a lot.


----------



## arftech

iFi audio said:


> We're very happy how this one turned out, but since it's active, it has to take some juice off your machine.



Isn't iPurifier built into the Micro BL?  Is there an added benefit if an iPurifier is inserted between your USB port on your computer and Micro BL?


----------



## iFi audio

arftech said:


> Isn't iPurifier built into the Micro BL? Is there an added benefit if an iPurifier is inserted between your USB port on your computer and Micro BL?



Our USB sorting tech to an extent is in all our products. But full iPurifier wouldn't fit in there. The best way to know whether it works would be to contact your local ifi representative and give it a go. If it doesn't our returns policy is generous, so you'll be fully refunded.

Also folks, not sure if you've seen it, but we're currently running a very simple competition with cool prizes here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/show-us-your-vipers-nest.913722/


----------



## redrich2000

What's the consensus on how the BL compared to the original micro iDSD? Were they close?


----------



## Baten

redrich2000 said:


> What's the consensus on how the BL compared to the original micro iDSD? Were they close?


BL has a cleaner dac and amp stage. sound sig is similar though, of course.


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> sound sig is similar though, of course.



Yup, was meant to be similar.


----------



## Womaz

My iPhone XR has suddenly stopped playing MQA files with the Micro BL .
The albums are downloaded on MQA format but are not playing in MQA . I have the settings correct. Anyone got any advice please?


----------



## Womaz

Womaz said:


> My iPhone XR has suddenly stopped playing MQA files with the Micro BL .
> The albums are downloaded on MQA format but are not playing in MQA . I have the settings correct. Anyone got any advice please?



actually sorted this myself. For some reason tidal had started downloading the albums in normal mode and not master , even though I had never changed the settings


----------



## redrich2000

I'm struggling to understand the firmware page. I have the original iDSD micro silver. I want to be able to use it as a usb>spdif converter, does that mean I cannot install v 5.3 or 5.3c?


----------



## DarktoreS




----------



## Baten

DarktoreS said:


>


Can you elaborate on the personal mod?


----------



## DarktoreS

Baten said:


> Can you elaborate on the personal mod?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bey...ering-headphone.814629/page-176#post-15286055

http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=14631&start=195


----------



## wildlife2011

Hi guys! I own idsd since 2016. I did use this with my previous laptop(windows 7) and was able to play in DSD 512 mode(Magenta LED on). But now I dont have that laptop running and I need to reconfigure my Foobar and laptop. Been searching for almost 2 hours now. Anyone can link or help me with step by step configuration. Thank you guys!


----------



## technobear

wildlife2011 said:


> Hi guys! I own idsd since 2016. I did use this with my previous laptop(windows 7) and was able to play in DSD 512 mode(Magenta LED on). But now I dont have that laptop running and I need to reconfigure my Foobar and laptop. Been searching for almost 2 hours now. Anyone can link or help me with step by step configuration. Thank you guys!


https://ifi-audio.com/home/computer-audio-tutorial/enhanced-listening/


----------



## AudioBomb

This DAC does wonders to the LCD-i4. An IEM that had almost no bass out of the mojo+poly is now a serious bass performer. Concerning sound quality, it is at the same level of the mojo+poly, but with much more bass (Xbass ON). Amazing soundstage, separation and resolution/refinement. Will also use it on my PC as a DAC. Have compared it with my ASUS Xonar D2X (so called audiophile-grade sound card) and it sounds like crap compared to the micro iDSD BL. lol.


----------



## iFi audio

AudioBomb said:


> This DAC does wonders to the LCD-i4. An IEM that had almost no bass out of the mojo+poly is now a serious bass performer. Concerning sound quality, it is at the same level of the mojo+poly, but with much more bass (Xbass ON). Amazing soundstage, separation and resolution/refinement. Will also use it on my PC as a DAC. Have compared it with my ASUS Xonar D2X (so called audiophile-grade sound card) and it sounds like crap compared to the micro iDSD BL. lol.



Thanks!


----------



## stefzulj

Picked up a BL on the weekend and using it with Tidal from Note 10+ using the iFi USB C cable purchased separately. 

When playing MQA the LED turns yellow which suggests higher bit rate than the standard HiFi which shows green, but I was thought I should be seeing a purple light. Am I missing something?

The device was running 5.30 out of the box and has been reflashed to 5.30 after first trying out 5.3C where I had an insane amount of static sound when headphones were connected. Static has gone now after reverting back to 5.30.

Cheers


----------



## Yethal

stefzulj said:


> Picked up a BL on the weekend and using it with Tidal from Note 10+ using the iFi USB C cable purchased separately.
> 
> When playing MQA the LED turns yellow which suggests higher bit rate than the standard HiFi which shows green, but I was thought I should be seeing a purple light. Am I missing something?
> 
> ...


Try using Usb Audio Player Pro instead of stock Tidal app.


----------



## stefzulj

Yethal said:


> Try using Usb Audio Player Pro instead of stock Tidal app.



Thanks, I've got the purple light going now and sounds great. However, music that's going into DAC at 96kHz has a huge amount of static, whilst 88.2 has no issues at all. Tried playing with the settings but can't figure out what's happening.

Cheers


----------



## stefzulj

I've worked out that this static occurs at 96kHz files only when the battery is running low (flashing red). Static is gone when the BL has been charged up, but still a strange issue nonetheless.


----------



## AudioBomb

I'm extremely happy with the Black Label, even more each day that passes. The LCD-i4 shows great bass potential (which was almost unexistant with the mojo+poly) and the sound seems to be even more refined and airy after 30 hours or so. If this DAC was at the store at 1000€, I would definitely take it over the mojo+poly. Besides, the experience with the Poly was extremely frustrating due to WiFi issues everywhere. I'm also convinced that the BL can drive higher impedance headphones.


----------



## recca

stefzulj said:


> I've worked out that this static occurs at 96kHz files only when the battery is running low (flashing red). Static is gone when the BL has been charged up, but still a strange issue nonetheless.



I have an xDSD and it also does not like to be low on battery.


----------



## iFi audio

stefzulj said:


> I've worked out that this static occurs at 96kHz files only when the battery is running low (flashing red). Static is gone when the BL has been charged up, but still a strange issue nonetheless.



Hmmm, interesting, that's a first. Can you replicate this and let us know here please?

http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## iFi audio

recca said:


> I have an xDSD and it also does not like to be low on battery.



What happens in your product when it's low on battery?


----------



## recca

iFi audio said:


> What happens in your product when it's low on battery?



It will appear to power up and light up but will not be recognized by my Phone. It happened to me once but then I kept it charged up consistently so haven't experienced again.  However one other time when I was getting low on battery it lost connection while listening. Everything appeared to be lit up so it looked like it was getting power.

Edit:  I should add that the charge light was blinking red so it definitely needed a charge.


----------



## iFi audio

recca said:


> It will appear to power up and light up but will not be recognized by my Phone. It happened to me once but then I kept it charged up consistently so haven't experienced again. However one other time when I was getting low on battery it lost connection while listening. Everything appeared to be lit up so it looked like it was getting power.
> 
> Edit: I should add that the charge light was blinking red so it definitely needed a charge.



If this happens again, please do let us know here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/

We do our best to investigate every single case out of ordinary. Thanks!


----------



## AudioBomb (Dec 4, 2019)

Interesting finding. After A/B'ing iFi micro iDSD BL vs Chord Mojo+ Chord Poly today, the Poly combo doesn't even come close in performance. And I mean not just the bass, but treble, separation, resolution, etc. I think BL is more at the level of the Hugo 2. It's the last time I take the Mojo + Poly, it will be for sale soon.


----------



## iFi audio

AudioBomb said:


> Interesting finding. After A/B'ing iFi mini iDSD BL vs Chord Mojo+ Chord Poly today, the Poly combo doesn't even comes close in performance. And I mean not just the bass, but treble, separation, resolution, etc. I think BL is more at the level of the Hugo 2. It's the last time I take the Mojo + Poly, it will be for sale soon.



Well, thanks for this feedback! 

It's quite funny with micro iDSD BL actually, the longer it's out there on the market, the more comments like yours we're getting!


----------



## AudioBomb (Dec 4, 2019)

iFi audio said:


> Well, thanks for this feedback!
> 
> It's quite funny with micro iDSD BL actually, the longer it's out there on the market, the more comments like yours we're getting!


Just if it was smaller 

But I don't care, I would have to pay 2000€ for something like this from Chord and it's not smaller.

I just wonder where could I find sort of a leather case for it.


----------



## Baten

iFi audio said:


> Well, thanks for this feedback!
> 
> It's quite funny with micro iDSD BL actually, the longer it's out there on the market, the more comments like yours we're getting!



Dear iFi

micro iDSD BL with 4.4mm balanced output PLEASE


----------



## iFi audio

AudioBomb said:


> Just if it was smaller



It can't be any smaller than it already is, otherwise it wouldn't do everything it does 



Baten said:


> micro iDSD BL with 4.4mm balanced output PLEASE


----------



## AudioBomb (Dec 5, 2019)

iFi audio said:


> It can't be any smaller than it already is, otherwise it wouldn't do everything it does


Sure thing. Just never leave Xbass, even on higher end/future DACs, since there are IEMs (like LCD-i3, LCD-i4 and many others) that need this feature. And it makes all the difference when we test competitors products with those headphones, that sound sterile. Xbass was able to transform the LCD-i4 in a . Seriously.


----------



## iFi audio

AudioBomb said:


> Seriously.



Oh we do believe you!


----------



## silvahr (Dec 5, 2019)

Hello,

What is better to get the best SQ: iPurifier 3 or nano iUsb 3.0?
The DAC is the iDAC2.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## iFi audio

silvahr said:


> Hello,
> 
> What is better to get the best SQ: iPurifier 3 or nano iUsb 3.0?
> The DAC is the iDAC2.
> Thank you in advance.



Our nano iUSB3.0 is second only to micro iUSB3.0, thus above our iPurifier3.


----------



## shootertwist

I saw the first version of this one the silver one being sold $299 at our local store is it still a good buy by today’s standards compared to the $599 black label? And also is buying a black label one still ok or will a new one incoming? Thanks in advance, Not really familiar with ifi products but see them mentioned all the time so would like to try them out... plan to connect it to an iphone a sony wm1a and if possible to a marantz integrated amplifier that i have to improve my stereo setup... thanks in advance


----------



## cj3209

AudioBomb said:


> ... If this DAC was at the store at 1000€, I would definitely take it over the mojo+poly. Besides, the experience with the Poly was extremely frustrating due to WiFi issues everywhere.


oooh...you brought back bad memories with my prior mojo-poly; spent countless hours trying to get that thing to work; got so frustrated, I left Chord for good and not looking back...


----------



## cj3209

AudioBomb said:


> Sure thing. Just never leave Xbass, even on higher end/future DACs, since there are IEMs (like LCD-i3, LCD-i4 and many others) that need this feature. And it makes all the difference when we test competitors products with those headphones, that sound sterile. Xbass was able to transform the LCD-i4 in a . Seriously.


I agree, the micro iDSL BL is great and I use it when I need a tranportable SE amp (it doubles as my SE preamp as well).  

The i4s need a good amp (like the micro iDSL BL and even a nice desktop amp) and some say it needs some EQ; I do use ROON DSP.  The i4s punch way above it's diminuative size and competes with over-the-ear full size headphones; some say it's a mini Audeze LCD-4.  I've never heard the LCD-4 but my i4s knock on the door of my TOTL headphones via my headphone amp.

Back to the micro iDSL BLs.  I would definitely like to see a balanced version, eg., 4.4mm balanced?  I would forgo the ability to charge my phone (I have a separate battery charger for that) and it would also reduce the size.

Cheers!


----------



## Baten

cj3209 said:


> I agree, the micro iDSL BL is great and I use it when I need a tranportable SE amp (it doubles as my SE preamp as well).
> 
> The i4s need a good amp (like the micro iDSL BL and even a nice desktop amp) and some say it needs some EQ; I do use ROON DSP.  The i4s punch way above it's diminuative size and competes with over-the-ear full size headphones; some say it's a mini Audeze LCD-4.  I've never heard the LCD-4 but my i4s knock on the door of my TOTL headphones via my headphone amp.
> 
> ...


I too would instantly buy a 4.4mm balanced micro BL. Just hope they keep BitPerfect and don't force GTO on everyone  just to cater to everyone's preference!


----------



## cj3209

Baten said:


> I too would instantly buy a 4.4mm balanced micro BL. Just hope they keep BitPerfect and don't force GTO on everyone  just to cater to everyone's preference!


What's GTO?


----------



## Baten

cj3209 said:


> What's GTO?


It's their own digital filter. Look up iFi GTO

I personally prefer no filter


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> don't force GTO on everyone



Due to multiple FW, we don't force anything to anyone. You can pick what you need! 



shootertwist said:


> I saw the first version of this one the silver one being sold $299 at our local store is it still a good buy by today’s standards compared to the $599 black label?



We'd say the first iDSD aged well, it still goes strong.


----------



## Baten

iFi audio said:


> Due to multiple FW, we don't force anything to anyone. You can pick what you need!



Ah yes that is indeed true =) as long as it remains for future devices hehe


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> Ah yes that is indeed true =) as long as it remains for future devices hehe



If we can go this route, we will! We thoroughly like options.


----------



## Joaqu2n

iFi audio said:


> Let's address this in even more thorough way, shall we?
> 
> *TL;DR*
> 
> ...



Hi. In my case today I have a PC -> USB cable -> iPurifier2 -> Micro iUSB 2.0 -> gemini cable -> Micro iDAC2. 

If I replace the Micro IDAC2 with the Micro iDSD (not Black Label), where should I place the iPurifier2?

Thank you!


----------



## maricius

iFi audio said:


> Hi gLer
> 
> The xDSD is best considered a "super nano" with extra input options (BT, SPDIF, Optical), a more powerful headphone Amplifier with much greater dynamic range, a new digitally controlled stepped attenuator operating in the analog domain as volume control, 3D-Matrix (Headphones only) and X-Bass and with a fundamentally re-designed user experience. It has a single BB DAC and is broadly equivalent to the iDAC 2 micro in terms of sound quality. It is not a replacement for the iDSD micro Black Label which remains in production and which remains our best sounding (trans) portable Unit.
> 
> ...






 


Apologies for bringing this up but I am quite confused with the iFi line-up. "It (xDSD) is not a replacement for the iDSD micro Black Label which is the best sounding transportable unit as the xDSD is equivalent to the iDAC2 micro in terms of sound quality" but at the same time 
"purely sound wise, iDAC2 is in our opinion better than iDSD BL."

Which is it?


----------



## maricius

@iFi audio is this correct?

Line-out sound quality:

iDAC 2 > iDSD BL > iDSD > xDSD


Headphone out sound quality:

iDSD BL > iDSD > xDSD = iDAC 2


----------



## iFi audio

Joaqu2n said:


> Hi. In my case today I have a PC -> USB cable -> iPurifier2 -> Micro iUSB 2.0 -> gemini cable -> Micro iDAC2.
> 
> If I replace the Micro IDAC2 with the Micro iDSD (not Black Label), where should I place the iPurifier2?
> 
> Thank you!



Our USB sorters should go before DACs, so your USB chain looks OK. However iPurifiers do the same thing as iUSB products, but understandably less effectively due to lower price. Please have iUSB as close to your DAC as possible, try to move iPurifier in and out of your setup and see/hear what happens.


----------



## iFi audio (Jan 12, 2020)

maricius said:


> Which is it?





maricius said:


> Line-out sound quality:
> 
> iDAC 2 > iDSD BL > iDSD > xDSD



As a DAC, iDAC2 is second only to Pro iDSD, thus above iDSD BL and xDSD as well.




maricius said:


> Headphone out sound quality:
> 
> iDSD BL > iDSD > xDSD = iDAC 2



iDSD BL is the top unit alright, but we're not sure about the iDSD > xDSD order. Plus, what you wrote is a wee bit oversimplified. It all depends on used cans/IEMs, not to mention functionality, size etc.


----------



## Joaqu2n

iFi audio said:


> Our USB sorters should go before DACs, so your USB chain looks OK. However iPurifiers do the same thing as iUSB products, but understandably less effectively due to lower price. Please have iUSB as close to your DAC as possible, try to move iPurifier in and out of your setup and see/hear what happens.



Does it mean that having the Micro iUSB 2.0 (not 3.0) I can remove the iPurifier 2 from the chain because it is redundant?

Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

Joaqu2n said:


> Does it mean that having the Micro iUSB 2.0 (not 3.0) I can remove the iPurifier 2 from the chain because it is redundant?



Their functionality overlaps, yes. But not having your setup we can't know what happens once you remove iPurifier, it can go both ways; you can hear an improvement or performance drop. Whatever the result might be, once you unplug and have a listen, please let us know!


----------



## Joaqu2n

iFi audio said:


> Their functionality overlaps, yes. But not having your setup we can't know what happens once you remove iPurifier, it can go both ways; you can hear an improvement or performance drop. Whatever the result might be, once you unplug and have a listen, please let us know!



With the iPurifier2 connected to the Micro iUSB 2.0, I think I have noticed an almost imperceptible improvement in the definition through the Focal Elear. Or it is purely psychological. Therefore it could be said that, through the headphone jack, there is no difference.


----------



## maricius

iFi audio said:


> As a DAC, iDAC2 is second only to Pro iDSD, thus above iDSD BL and xDSD as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. This clarifies a lot. My usage would be mostly via USB power and a laptop  and with a relatively efficient pair of IEMs (not overtly efficient) meaning amplification for my uses would democratise the units a bit. I guess the driving factor of my question is that I do need a more consistent, (read: fixed), headphone out but I needed to know whether I should sell my current vanilla micro iDSD to fund an xDSD or to keep the vanilla iDSD attached to a home loudspeaker set-up due to having a better line-out than the xDSD.


----------



## iFi audio (Jan 13, 2020)

Joaqu2n said:


> With the iPurifier2 connected to the Micro iUSB 2.0, I think I have noticed an almost imperceptible improvement in the definition through the Focal Elear. Or it is purely psychological. Therefore it could be said that, through the headphone jack, there is no difference.


It's great that both products together work for you, in-spite their overlapping each other. But, if its works for you then please run with it.


----------



## iFi audio

maricius said:


> Thanks for this. This clarifies a lot. My usage would be mostly via USB power and a laptop  and with a relatively efficient pair of IEMs (not overtly efficient) meaning amplification for my uses would democratise the units a bit. I guess the driving factor of my question is that I do need a more consistent, (read: fixed), headphone out but I needed to know whether I should sell my current vanilla micro iDSD to fund an xDSD or to keep the vanilla iDSD attached to a home loudspeaker set-up due to having a better line-out than the xDSD.


If you don't need the portability or a wireless function with your DAC, then you could stay using your current micro iDSD or you could try our iDAC2 which is purely a desktop DAC. With using your IEMs, our iDAC2 has a headphone out which would suit your needs.


----------



## networkn

Sorry to bring up a very old topic. I bought one of these whilst overseas a few years back, got home, got sick and forgot about it. I found it in a clean up yesterday, which was timely as I want something just like this for portable listening at the moment, but sadly I can't get it to switch on, despite having it plugged into a smart power hub last night for 8 hours and again today for 2 hours followed by another 1 hour. I am hoping I can spark the battery up again, but in the worst case, if not, is it feasible and cost effective to replace the battery on them? I don't' really want to throw away hundreds of dollars of something I never used. 

I assume the LED is the thing on the top of the unit to the bottom  left of the logo?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## cj3209

networkn said:


> Sorry to bring up a very old topic. I bought one of these whilst overseas a few years back, got home, got sick and forgot about it. I found it in a clean up yesterday, which was timely as I want something just like this for portable listening at the moment, but sadly I can't get it to switch on, despite having it plugged into a smart power hub last night for 8 hours and again today for 2 hours followed by another 1 hour. I am hoping I can spark the battery up again, but in the worst case, if not, is it feasible and cost effective to replace the battery on them? I don't' really want to throw away hundreds of dollars of something I never used.
> 
> I assume the LED is the thing on the top of the unit to the bottom  left of the logo?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


It might be worth it to send it in to iFi and have them change out the battery.


----------



## networkn

cj3209 said:


> It might be worth it to send it in to iFi and have them change out the battery.



Hi. Unfortunately, that's not really an option as I am in New Zealand.
Sending Batteries internationally is tricky these days too.


----------



## cj3209

networkn said:


> Hi. Unfortunately, that's not really an option as I am in New Zealand.
> Sending Batteries internationally is tricky these days too.


Ok, just make sure you follow iFi's directions on restarting a battery on their web page.


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> Hi. Unfortunately, that's not really an option as I am in New Zealand.
> Sending Batteries internationally is tricky these days too.



Also, please see this: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=282


----------



## networkn

iFi audio said:


> Also, please see this: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=282



Thanks. I actually have a ticket open 627709 which i am waiting on a response from. 

So far I have charged it twice for 8+ hours, and by the time I get home tonight, that will be 3 times. I have also tried around 10 times to connect it to power, wait 5 minutes, disconnect, wait 30 seconds (approx) and connect it to power again etc. So far no luck.


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> Thanks. I actually have a ticket open 627709 which i am waiting on a response from.
> 
> So far I have charged it twice for 8+ hours, and by the time I get home tonight, that will be 3 times. I have also tried around 10 times to connect it to power, wait 5 minutes, disconnect, wait 30 seconds (approx) and connect it to power again etc. So far no luck.


Thank you for opening up a ticket, I can assure you that our support staff will get back to you as soon as possible. Our staff usually replies within 48 hours of you opening a ticket.


----------



## mrblast

Hi all. Just got the Ifi idsd BL amp but am having problems with it and cannot for the life of me work out how to fix the issue.

Im using it as follows: laptop (USB) - idsd - SZ2000s

I am trying to use equalizer APO with it but for some reason, the sound does not differ when I change the preamp volume or adjust the levels.

If I connect the sz2000s into the laptops headphone socket, no problem.

If I connect my laptop to my monolith DAC and then into the SZ2000s, no problem.

But for some reason, when I connect the idsd, the equalizer becomes defunct.

Equalizer is set to "all devices" and the idsd is in the drop down.

Also, whilst the power mode (eco/normal/turbo) seems to work fine, Xbass and 3D+ seem to have no effect whatsoever.

I'm probably being a complete idiot with this, does anybody have any ideas?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Baten

mrblast said:


> I am trying to use equalizer APO with it but for some reason, the sound does not differ when I change the preamp volume or adjust the levels.



-equaliserAPO configurator has been run for the new device? idsd in the dropdown is not enough, you need to install APO for the device too
-what are you playing? If you use ASIO or WASAPI it overrides all system enhancements, including equaliser APO.


----------



## mrblast

Bloody hell, I knew it was something simple.

Can't believe I missed that. 

Just ran the configurator now and it's working perfectly.

Thanks mate.


----------



## duyanh43

Wow, how can this thread be much more popular than the BL version


----------



## duyanh43

iFi audio said:


> As a DAC, iDAC2 is second only to Pro iDSD, thus above iDSD BL and xDSD as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Someone compare the iDAC2 & the BL as DAC here? I'm using BL Lineout and planning to upgrade my DAC section.

Another question, can I plug my headphone on the 6.3 input on the front when there are RCA connected on the back (but my external AMP is off)? Thanks a lot


----------



## iFi audio

duyanh43 said:


> Someone compare the iDAC2 & the BL as DAC here? I'm using BL Lineout and planning to upgrade my DAC section.



As a DAC only, iDAC2 is better than micro iDSD BL.


----------



## duyanh43

iFi audio said:


> As a DAC only, iDAC2 is better than micro iDSD BL.


I'll visit the iDAC2 if I have the chance, what about the other question of connecting both RCA output and 6.3 front HP input  

P/S: I've PM-ed a question about a week ago about a problem, can you check the Private Messages section on Head-Fi, thanks.


----------



## technobear

duyanh43 said:


> what about the other question of connecting both RCA output and 6.3 front HP input


Yes.



duyanh43 said:


> P/S: I've PM-ed a question about a week ago about a problem, can you check the Private Messages section on Head-Fi, thanks.


For problems, open a ticket here: https://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## iFi audio

duyanh43 said:


> P/S: I've PM-ed a question about a week ago about a problem, can you check the Private Messages section on Head-Fi, thanks.



As per @technobear 's suggestion, please open up a ticket in the link he kindly provided. Our support staff will gladly do their best to help you out!



technobear said:


> Yes.



Yes!


----------



## alekc

duyanh43 said:


> I'll visit the iDAC2 if I have the chance



Please do and you will not regret it. I had similar dilemma for something small but desktop use, and I finally went iDAC2 way and I do not regret it. No batteries, no charging issues. Great sound. Added iCan SE micro to the chain and it plays great too


----------



## iFi audio

alekc said:


> Added iCan SE micro to the chain and it plays great too



Yup, that's a killer desktop combo right there. Anything in particular you liked about it?


----------



## alekc

iFi audio said:


> Yup, that's a killer desktop combo right there. Anything in particular you liked about it?



As far as iCan SE is concerned I love both output power and TubeState sound: clarity, but a bit of warmth added. I guess it is hard to find headphones that will not sound at least good with iCan SE while most sound great. Except iDac2 I have been using it also with Mojo alone and Mojo+iTube2 and it sounds great too while not taking out a lot of Mojo sound signature.

If you ask about iDac2 + iCan SE than I must say that complete rig has great synergy with every component: iGalvanic nano, iUSB micro 3, iDac2 micro, iTube2 micro and iCan SE.


----------



## lightning3777

Hi. My Micro iDSD BL suddenly produce sound on left channel only and sometime right channel only. Could anyone advice on what to do to solve the problem. Thanks


----------



## Womaz

This


----------



## iFi audio

lightning3777 said:


> Hi. My Micro iDSD BL suddenly produce sound on left channel only and sometime right channel only. Could anyone advice on what to do to solve the problem. Thanks



If you've tried a different output device and symptoms remain, I'd politely ask you to open up a ticket here: http://support.ifi-audio.com/

Our support staff will do their best to help you out!


----------



## bzippy (Mar 28, 2020)

Just got a Micro BL, primarily for desktop-amp-like performance when I'm away from my desktop rig. Haven't had a chance to directly A/B against my Schiit / JDS Labs rig yet, but from what I've heard so far I think it's going to fare pretty well.

Regarding firmware though, I got a little overwhelmed reading about all the different releases, but ultimately came away from it thinking I don't need to flash any if them as I don't do DSD or MQA. That is, until the other night when I fell asleep while streaming Spotify in Battery Mode using my phone. When I woke up a couple hours later I was very surprised to find my phone drained. So I need to flash FW5.2b to avoid this, right? But if the Micro's sleep mode is disabled by FW5.2b, will it's (the Micro's) battery continue to be drawn down at the same rate even after the input signal stops (i.e. after the source device reaches the end of the album or playlist)?

I frequently listen to music over headphones to fall asleep and I need some help understanding my options vis-a-vis FW if I'm going to use the Micro BL as part of my routine.

Worth also mentioning that my nighttime cans are the Meze 99 Classics. And I was very surprised to discover that to achieve the low volumes I prefer for sleep require not only Eco mode, but also the High Sensitivity setting on the IEMatch switch. Otherwise I am below 9:00 on the volume knob and start to get channel imbalance issues. (I mean, this thing might just be too powerful for nighttime use for me, but that's off topic for now.)

Any thoughts, tips or advice would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

bzippy said:


> So I need to flash FW5.2b to avoid this, right?



Yes, FW5.2b is the one to disable sleep mode. And yes, as long as the product is physically turned on, it will drain its battery. Sadly we don't have a firmware which would turn the machine off after a time period, this has to be done manually.


----------



## bzippy

iFi audio said:


> Yes, FW5.2b is the one to disable sleep mode. And yes, as long as the product is physically turned on, it will drain its battery. Sadly we don't have a firmware which would turn the machine off after a time period, this has to be done manually.



Thank you. I did not expect that FW5.2b included auto shutoff in any way. But if you guys could start work on a BL v2.0 in which a sensor could tell when I fall sleep (via, say, a snore detector) and then a little mechanical arm would come out and switch off the unit, well needlessly to say that's an upgrade I'd be very interested in. 

Seriously though, i guess my question was a very clunky way of asking about a basic aspect of amplifiers in general, i.e. do amps use less power when there is no input signal or is it about the same? (I'm sorry, I'm sure this is a very basic tech question)

Last thing: somewhere in all these pages I sorta remember reading that the iDSD at one time could distinguish between a power source and a phone, such that it would not draw power from a phone in sleep mode. But there is something about modern phones that makes this distinction no longer possible. Did I understand this correctly?


----------



## iFi audio

bzippy said:


> But there is something about modern phones that makes this distinction no longer possible. Did I understand this correctly?



Well, as long as micro iDSD BL is powered on first prior to connecting it to a smartphone, it shouldn't drain your smartphone's battery. It's fair to ask whether you know that this is possible, but most likely you are!



bzippy said:


> do amps use less power when there is no input signal or is it about the same? (I'm sorry, I'm sure this is a very basic tech question)



I hear you, an 'eco' mode when a power amp goes into minimal power draw if no signal is detected. I'm not sure whether this could be done in a portable product without impacting its sound quality, but you have a point there. I'll ask our R&D about that.



bzippy said:


> then a little mechanical arm would come out and switch off the unit,



Not sure if we can integrate a mechanical slapping arm in a product itself, but we could add it as i.e. an inflatable accessory or something


----------



## Womaz

OK I am not good with technology but I am keen to explore something.

I have the HD800S cans and I love what the bass boost does to them . With my main rig I rarely use the HD800s and the Hifiman HEK are always preferred.

However when using the Micro BL I now prefer the HD800s , but only with the bass boost.

Now is the challenge -) I use Roon with my main rig and it has a DSP feature which I currently don’t use, but I may try and do something with this so when I use the HD800S with it, I get the same results.

Anyone have any idea what sort of bass boost is given and how would I go about using the DSP feature within Roon to try and get similar results?

Any guidance appreciated


----------



## Baten

Womaz said:


> OK I am not good with technology but I am keen to explore something.
> 
> I have the HD800S cans and I love what the bass boost does to them . With my main rig I rarely use the HD800s and the Hifiman HEK are always preferred.
> 
> ...


Same question was asked here. You could mimic the effect via digital EQ
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_title


----------



## Womaz (Apr 7, 2020)

I can’t seem to adjust the 11hz as suggested . I am a total novice so not even sure this is how I should go about this.


----------



## Baten

Womaz said:


> I can’t seem to adjust the 11hz as suggested . I am a total novice so not even sure this is how I should go about this.


It would be easiest to change 'type' to Low Shelf. 54 Hz. +10 dB. Q 0.5


----------



## Womaz

Baten said:


> It would be easiest to change 'type' to Low Shelf. 54 Hz. +10 dB. Q 0.5



i am a total novice, but think I have done it . I can listen later and make adjustments if I feel they are necessary. Thanks for the help


----------



## iFi audio

Womaz said:


> i am a total novice, but think I have done it . I can listen later and make adjustments if I feel they are necessary. Thanks for the help



Once you have a listen, can you share some impressions how this EQ worked for you?


----------



## Womaz

iFi audio said:


> Once you have a listen, can you share some impressions how this EQ worked for you?



I am not good at describing what I hear , it boosted the bass too much on my Taurus so for now I have reduced this to 6db and so far I think this sounds more to my liking .


----------



## Baten

Womaz said:


> I am not good at describing what I hear , it boosted the bass too much on my Taurus so for now I have reduced this to 6db and so far I think this sounds more to my liking .


I think it's because iFi's boost is analog, while the EQ is digital domain. to me, it also sounded subtly different.
good thinking to fine tune it by ear.


----------



## iFi audio

Baten said:


> I think it's because iFi's boost is analog



Yes, it's fully analog!



Baten said:


> good thinking to fine tune it by ear.



I agree. At the end of the day, our ears tell us what works for them and what doesn't


----------



## Maxpain

Hello, I wish best health to everyone during quarantine days..

I would like to ask if anyone experiencing popping sounds when micro (silver) is powered on or off with headphones plugged in to it.

Could it be dangerous for the head phones? My cans are senn's 598 and 650. I always turn in on and then turn up the volume to listening levels.

Thanks in advance for your ipnut.


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> I would like to ask if anyone experiencing popping sounds when micro (silver) is powered on or off with headphones plugged in to it.
> 
> Could it be dangerous for the head phones? My cans are senn's 598 and 650. I always turn in on and then turn up the volume to listening levels.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your ipnut.



This might be either software or hardware related. Can you please open up a ticket here at our support platform? 

https://support.ifi-audio.com/

Our support staff will do their best to help you out!


----------



## technobear

Maxpain said:


> Hello, I wish best health to everyone during quarantine days..
> 
> I would like to ask if anyone experiencing popping sounds when micro (silver) is powered on or off with headphones plugged in to it.
> 
> ...


It's normal and it won't hurt your headphones.


----------



## Womaz

Maxpain said:


> Hello, I wish best health to everyone during quarantine days..
> 
> I would like to ask if anyone experiencing popping sounds when micro (silver) is powered on or off with headphones plugged in to it.
> 
> ...


This happens to me every time I switch the unit on and I doubt it does any harm .


----------



## Maxpain

Thanks a lot for the responses!

Can you tell me if the right way to do it is to always plug and unplug the headphones when the unit is powered? 

I imagine that eventually I will damage the connection of the unit and of the headphones wire if i plug and unplug it every time I want to listen to it.


----------



## technobear

Maxpain said:


> Thanks a lot for the responses!
> 
> Can you tell me if the right way to do it is to always plug and unplug the headphones when the unit is powered?
> 
> I imagine that eventually I will damage the connection of the unit and of the headphones wire if i plug and unplug it every time I want to listen to it.


You are definitely overthinking this. Your headphones are capable of reproducing a full orchestra in full flight. Compared to that, this small switch on pop/tick is of no consequence.


----------



## Maxpain

Maybe I do...I just love my headphones I guess I am being overprotecting hehe.

I am also considering upgrading to micro black label...I have read that hd 650 are very sensitive to better amps and dacs and since I am not going to upgrade them in the near future...

Has anyone tried them with both micro silver and black? Would the sound quality justify the cost considering I already have the silver one? I love ifi audio and vfm I wouldn't want to go to another sound signature..


----------



## technobear

Maxpain said:


> Maybe I do...I just love my headphones I guess I am being overprotecting hehe.
> 
> I am also considering upgrading to micro black label...I have read that hd 650 are very sensitive to better amps and dacs and since I am not going to upgrade them in the near future...
> 
> Has anyone tried them with both micro silver and black? Would the sound quality justify the cost considering I already have the silver one? I love ifi audio and vfm I wouldn't want to go to another sound signature..


If this is for desktop use, I would skip the Black Label and add a micro iCAN to your micro iDSD.


----------



## Maxpain

It is for just desktop use. Well I can always use just micro for transportation.

I can se is would be a definite upgrade in terms of sound quality and power?


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> I can se is would be a definite upgrade in terms of sound quality and power?



Technobear's suggestion is a spot on. If you already have micro iDSD and need something desktop, it makes more sense to go after iCAN. But if you're after only one do-it-all box, then iDSD BL would be it.


----------



## alekc

iFi audio said:


> Technobear's suggestion is a spot on. If you already have micro iDSD and need something desktop, it makes more sense to go after iCAN. But if you're after only one do-it-all box, then iDSD BL would be it.



Let me add as iCAN SE owner that this is great choice for desktop use. Later you can always consider further upgrade with iTube2. The one thing great about iFi devices is synergy between them. The moment you connect iCAN to iDAC2 or iDSD is you can tell those were designed to work together.


----------



## iFi audio

alekc said:


> Let me add as iCAN SE owner that this is great choice for desktop use. Later you can always consider further upgrade with iTube2. The one thing great about iFi devices is synergy between them. The moment you connect iCAN to iDAC2 or iDSD is you can tell those were designed to work together.



Thanks for mentioning it. Indeed some of our products were designed to work together in synergistic fashion and iCAN, iTube2 and iDSD are the finest example of this approach.


----------



## Maxpain

It is very logical that ifi products will have perfect synergy and are designed to work together. 

What I am afraid is that because I already have the micro idsd going to something like ican would not be the upgrade that I imagine. I mean it would certainly be a an upgrade but is it worth spending on it?

I would also want to suggest to ifi that I would dig a budget pure tube amp  with the ifi known sound quality! I bet others would dig that too!


----------



## iFi audio (Apr 22, 2020)

Maxpain said:


> What I am afraid is that because I already have the micro idsd going to something like ican would not be the upgrade that I imagine. I mean it would certainly be a an upgrade but is it worth spending on it?



It would be good to ask your local iFi representative about the possibility to get a loaner and see for yourself if you like it. If not, in many countries full refunds apply.



Maxpain said:


> I would also want to suggest to ifi that I would dig a budget pure tube amp with the ifi known sound quality! I bet others would dig that too!



We'd have to find a way how to miniaturize Pro iCAN and leave a tube component inside, which is not trivial 

But who knows, perhaps one day...


----------



## Maxpain

iFi audio said:


> It would be good to ask your local iFi representative about the possibility to get a loaner and see for yourself if you like it. If not, in many countries full refunds apply.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is true...although Pro iCAN is somewhat of the end game...its really out of my budget I think for me 1.000 would be the ceiling.

But I read that hd650 really benefits from OTL designs and at some point I will want to explore that option too. For now I will try the ican se in comparison with my idsd and maybe with idsd BL and see whats gonna happen.

Cheers to everyone stay healthy and enjoy music!


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> Cheers to everyone stay healthy and enjoy music!



Likewise, stay healthy!


----------



## technobear

Maxpain said:


> But I read that hd650 really benefits from OTL designs and at some point I will want to explore that option too. For now I will try the ican se in comparison with my idsd and maybe with idsd BL and see whats gonna happen.


Somewhere on this forum, I document my experience of trialling the micro iCAN SE (brand new) against my micro iCAN (well used). To cut a long story short, it took the iCAN SE 400 hours (yes, that's 400 hours) to catch up with the performance of the well used micro iCAN. Just something to be aware of if trying out brand new units.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ica...undstage-and-more-detail.654405/post-12306722

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ica...undstage-and-more-detail.654405/post-12317897

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ica...undstage-and-more-detail.654405/post-12339768


----------



## Maxpain

technobear said:


> Somewhere on this forum, I document my experience of trialling the micro iCAN SE (brand new) against my micro iCAN (well used). To cut a long story short, it took the iCAN SE 400 hours (yes, that's 400 hours) to catch up with the performance of the well used micro iCAN. Just something to be aware of if trying out brand new units.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ica...undstage-and-more-detail.654405/post-12306722
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input on the matter. Have you ever compared the ican with the idsd silver or black?


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> Thank you for your input on the matter. Have you ever compared the ican with the idsd silver or black?



Knowing @technobear, he most likely did


----------



## technobear

iFi audio said:


> Knowing @technobear, he most likely did


Which is precisely why I recommended iCAN to @Maxpain


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> Which is precisely why I recommended iCAN to @Maxpain



Good lad! Enjoy your weekend!


----------



## Maxpain

Thank you technobear for your suggestion I will try to audition the ican se first chance I will have.

I would also want to put a question regarding amping my headphones with micro. In micro's specs I have found that the idsd micro can output  950 mW at 32 Ohms, and 100 mW at 300 Ohms at normal mode. The hd650 can handle 500mw at 300 ohms.

Now I usually run micro at normal mode but would it be better to switch to turbo mode or 100mw are enough to properly amp the headphones?

I am also afraid to damage the headphones cause I like to listen to considerably loud volumes, meaning 1-3 o clock on the idsd nob at normal mode. Is this considered loud?

Again thanks in advance for your thoughts.


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> I am also afraid to damage the headphones cause I like to listen to considerably loud volumes, meaning 1-3 o clock on the idsd nob at normal mode. Is this considered loud?



It's more likely to damage your hearing than headphones or a DAC  Audio devices are built to take quite the beating, so I wouldn't worry!



Maxpain said:


> Now I usually run micro at normal mode but would it be better to switch to turbo mode



If normal mode is enough for you, then I'd stick with this option. But if in Turbo your cans sound more lively (let's assume better) and smaller operable volume range isn't a big con, I'd go with Turbo. Please try both and see which one works better for you!


----------



## networkn

Hi. 
I suspect my battery on the my iDSD Micro has died. 

What kind of battery can I get to replace it? Either spec or model or whatnot?


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> Hi.
> I suspect my battery on the my iDSD Micro has died.
> 
> What kind of battery can I get to replace it? Either spec or model or whatnot?



Please open a support ticket here, and we'll provide you with all nfo about battery replacement: https://support.ifi-audio.com/

Thanks!


----------



## magicalmouse (May 6, 2020)

I asked IFI for the cost of a replacement battery (UK) and it was just over £100 delivered (the battery cannot be sent in the post apparently).

My question is - has anyone fitted a generic battery that is cheaper to the idsd micro as i was thinking of buying a s/h one and am put off this by the cost of a new battery.

d


----------



## iFi audio

magicalmouse said:


> My question is - has anyone fitted a generic battery that is cheaper to the idsd micro as i was thinking of buying a s/h one and am put off this by the cost of a new battery.



That's a fair question!


----------



## hag6

I have upgraded my IDSD’s firmware to 5.3 mainly  to check out whether I can play MQA files stored in my Auralic Aries Mini. The IDSD illuminates yellow which is correct for MQA. The other LED colours are also correct; green PCM and cyan/blue for DSD. Yet when I connect the IDSD to a Windows PC and I play a Youtube clip the LED is yellow. I seem to remember that streaming from lower resolution input on-line would trigger the green LED. Can anyone explain why this the case thanks.


----------



## technobear

hag6 said:


> I have upgraded my IDSD’s firmware to 5.3 mainly  to check out whether I can play MQA files stored in my Auralic Aries Mini. The IDSD illuminates yellow which is correct for MQA. The other LED colours are also correct; green PCM and cyan/blue for DSD. Yet when I connect the IDSD to a Windows PC and I play a Youtube clip the LED is yellow. I seem to remember that streaming from lower resolution input on-line would trigger the green LED. Can anyone explain why this the case thanks.


The answer most likely lies in the Windows Sound Control Panel where you will have selected the default sample rate to be something large like may 192k. Windows will then upsample all inputs to this rate.


----------



## hag6

Thanks. That makes perfect sense.


----------



## networkn

I'd like to confirm if there is any difference in SQ between this option :

https://www.avworld.co.nz/shop/product/ifi-otg-cables/overview

and this one: 

https://cdlnz.com/C-U31CAF-1

for listening from my Note 10 phone to my HD800S via the iDSD?


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 10, 2020)

hag6 said:


> Thanks. That makes perfect sense.



Perhaps this also has something to do with no magenta LED on your ZEN DAC.


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> https://www.avworld.co.nz/shop/product/ifi-otg-cables/overview
> 
> and this one:
> 
> https://cdlnz.com/C-U31CAF-1



I won't comment on SQ, but ours is shorter


----------



## technobear

networkn said:


> I'd like to confirm if there is any difference in SQ between this option :
> 
> https://www.avworld.co.nz/shop/product/ifi-otg-cables/overview
> 
> ...


There is a rather large difference. One will work. The other will not (because it is not an OTG cable).


----------



## hag6

iFi audio said:


> Perhaps this also has something to do with no magenta LED on your ZEN DAC.




With F/W 5.3c on the Micro iDSD what colour is triggered by PCM files - hopefully its different to MQA. Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

hag6 said:


> With F/W 5.3c on the Micro iDSD what colour is triggered by PCM files - hopefully its different to MQA. Thanks



I already replied in a separate thread about your micro iDSD, but in short, with 5.3c FW you'll see only a yellow LED with all PCM and MQA.


----------



## networkn

technobear said:


> There is a rather large difference. One will work. The other will not (because it is not an OTG cable).



I am not sure what you mean, it works fine, I didn't buy the OTG cable, so I can't compare if sound quality is different, but that CDL cable works fine, as did the cable with the Micro USB to USB Converter?


----------



## technobear

networkn said:


> I am not sure what you mean, it works fine, I didn't buy the OTG cable, so I can't compare if sound quality is different, but that CDL cable works fine, as did the cable with the Micro USB to USB Converter?


Perhaps the Note 10 is different then and can switch automatically between host and client modes. Traditionally it has only been possible to get a phone into host mode by inserting an OTG cable. Otherwise the phone would stay in client mode.


----------



## MLGrado (Jul 5, 2020)

July 26th, 2014 paradoxically seems like both an eternity and a mere fortnight ago.  I started this review thread, and almost 6 years later, it is still going strong.  This posting of mine should be the 8,905th of the thread.  Wow!!

I haven't dropped in over here in awhile..quite literally it was years ago.  Life, work, family, dealing with a mental illness (and no, I am not referring to my audiophilia, haha) etc. and then the fact I was such a newbie in this what I would call a real phenomenon of an audio community, the requisite learning I still needed, (which I would like to think I mostly have down pat by now, and have gone far, far beyond just the basics as I try to expand my knowledge to the limits of what my particular genetically gifted grey matter can handle, which isn't much, but I am doing my best).  Oh, and the Private Messages that pulled no punches when they told me I was ignorant, deaf, and 'full of $hit'... that didn't help either.


And as I am back over here now posting the subtext running underneath my stream of thought says "wow, this is still way to big for me and I probably still am full of $hit haha:".  But I did re-read my review.  I was curious because I am now a proud owner of the iDSD PRO DAC. It is pleasing to read in my review of the iDSD Micro from 2014 that much if not all my original impressions have held through time.  The iDSD Micro was and still is in its 'Black Label' form a quite special piece of kit.  I was lucky enough to hear the Black Label when it first was released via one of those lovely product tours you get on here every once in awhile.  I probably should just go ahead and buy myself the Micro Black Label, but I think I am about to pull the trigger instead on an xDSD for my portable listening.


So what happened to my original iDSD Micro "Octa-Adopter' version?  Well, it is still here in the closet.  It gave me a good 4 years of service before the battery went belly up; and unbeknownst to me at the time, you have to have a workable battery for the bugger to work even if you are running solely off of the USB power.  I am sure its an easy and inexpensive fix. Perhaps someday I will get it fixed.  Along with the rest of the stuff in my 'fix-it' drawer.... the Heathkit SA-2 integrated tube amp that has been completely recapped and retubed but still isn't quite right on the sound so all new resistors come next, the Icon Audio HP8 MKII headhone amp that has a broken input tube socket.. I finally got off to a start on that, but geez, its about the most difficult socket placement I believe that has ever been devised in the devious minds of audio engineers, and oh.. there is a JVC D-ILA RS20 projector in there that puts up a brilliant picture until the day it seems the HDMI board failed on me.  One day, one day going to fix that thing.


So it seems my posting here really had no point at all, did it?    Well, it does.  It is just to say iFi keeps doing great things.  Everything they started with was at least a good product; every new one since has been better and better.  As I said in the iDSD Pro thread, I believe there will be a lucky day when the iFi toys in this price class get some trickle down tech from the PRO series.  That will be a GREAT day.  Because the iDSD PRO is a legit Class A/A+ product through and through.


Forget all the petty paper arguments and pissing contests about third party measured specs, theoretical mumbo jumbo, and worst of all, the PCM - DSD format 'war' that I am ashamed to admit once being part of. If you buy a product and it sounds great to your ears?  Guess what?? It sounds great to your ears!!  And maybe the rest of us who SHOULD know better need to just keep our mouths shut and realize this is all for a common purpose.  Enjoying music and how it so strangely and inexplicably influences who we are.**

Keep on enjoying the music!!

Andrew

** ahem, I still in the end can't leave well enough alone and have to remind 'the rest of us who know better' that indeed the product on which I have landed, the iDSD PRO, performs very well on the test bench.  Jitter is a non-factor regardless of input, the FPGA programmed filters look great on paper, and yada yada and all that stuff 


and here she is... pulled out of storage my venerable 'Octa-adopter' iFi Micro iDSD, number 215 out of 512 (i think).  Lots of great music was made by this little device.


----------



## iFi audio

MLGrado said:


> and here she is... pulled out of storage my venerable 'Octa-adopter' iFi Micro iDSD, number 215 out of 512 (i think). Lots of great music was made by this little device.



Like a good wine, this one aged well too 
Andrew, thanks a lot for a very nice thing to read at this late hour! 



MLGrado said:


> I am sure its an easy and inexpensive fix. Perhaps someday I will get it fixed.



Hey, perhaps our support can help you out. Please drop us a mail to: support@ifi-audio.com.


----------



## nieveulv

iFi audio said:


> Like a good wine, this one aged well too
> Andrew, thanks a lot for a very nice thing to read at this late hour!
> 
> 
> ...



Interested in trying the ifi black label micro idsd as a dac only to connect to an external amp (wooaudio WA2) via the RCA out.

Will the Xbass/3d function work if i use it this way? Thank you


----------



## technobear

nieveulv said:


> Interested in trying the ifi black label micro idsd as a dac only to connect to an external amp (wooaudio WA2) via the RCA out.
> 
> Will the Xbass/3d function work if i use it this way? Thank you


A quick search of this thread (using the term 'XBass'), yields these two useful posts in the top ten:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ons-reviews-and-comments.728236/post-13957838

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ons-reviews-and-comments.728236/post-13870289


----------



## 394216

The left channel RCA out of my iDSD is going bad, and it's out of warranty. I guess this will be a portable use dac+amp from now on. Good thing I have a new desktop DAC coming.


----------



## iFi audio

torpedorag said:


> The left channel RCA out of my iDSD is going bad, and it's out of warranty.



You can always contact our support line here: https://support.ifi-audio.com

Our staff handles products out of warranty too!


----------



## 394216

iFi audio said:


> You can always contact our support line here: https://support.ifi-audio.com
> 
> Our staff handles products out of warranty too!


Will do! Thanks for the reply.


----------



## iFi audio

torpedorag said:


> Will do! Thanks for the reply.



Sure, anytime!


----------



## PROblemdetected (Jul 29, 2020)

Tomorrow I'm going to buy a second hand micro idsd, any faulties that I should check?


iFi audio said:


> Sure, anytime!


Sorry for quote, but could u answer this question, I'm gonna buy it in hours


----------



## iFi audio

sakt1moko said:


> Tomorrow I'm going to buy a second hand micro idsd, any faulties that I should check?



None that I'm aware of. Just connect it via USB, rock some music you know well, possibly try several formats, and if there's nothing that seems odd go for it!


----------



## PROblemdetected

iFi audio said:


> None that I'm aware of. Just connect it via USB, rock some music you know well, possibly try several formats, and if there's nothing that seems odd go for it!



Works like a charm.

Update firmware to play mqa (cookies & cream), and so surprise of quality and the powerful that this dac is. It capable of move my hungers akg 612 in eco mode.

Really happy with the purchase!!


----------



## iFi audio

sakt1moko said:


> Works like a charm.
> 
> Update firmware to play mqa (cookies & cream), and so surprise of quality and the powerful that this dac is. It capable of move my hungers akg 612 in eco mode.
> 
> Really happy with the purchase!!



I'm glad you like it, but just to clarify: you got the Black Label, or silver micro iDSD?


----------



## PROblemdetected

iFi audio said:


> I'm glad you like it, but just to clarify: you got the Black Label, or silver micro iDSD?


Silver micro


----------



## bzippy

iFi audio said:


> For the iDSD micro, the different power modes do not change either output impedance / damping factor (damping factor is load impedance divided by output impedance).  Neither does the current limit of the circuit change.
> 
> The output impedance / damping factor and current limit change only if iEMatch is engaged.
> 
> ...


I ran across this very useful post while researching whether it's theoretically better to run my BL in Eco with volume knob at 11:00-12;00 or Normal mode with volume knob closer to 9:00 (which is on the brink of channel imbalance). This post clears that up, thank you! 

There was another post by iFi earlier in the thread that states optimal performance is between 12:00-3:00 on the volume knob. But I can't get to that position with any of my headohones (none are IEMs), unless I engage IE Match. And since there are real changes to the amping specs when doing that, am i correct to assume it's theoretically better to dwell below 12:00 on the volume knob than it is to engage IE Match in order to get the knob nearer to 3:00?


----------



## technobear

bzippy said:


> I ran across this very useful post while researching whether it's theoretically better to run my BL in Eco with volume knob at 11:00-12;00 or Normal mode with volume knob closer to 9:00 (which is on the brink of channel imbalance). This post clears that up, thank you!
> 
> There was another post by iFi earlier in the thread that states optimal performance is between 12:00-3:00 on the volume knob. But I can't get to that position with any of my headohones (none are IEMs), unless I engage IE Match. And since there are real changes to the amping specs when doing that, am i correct to assume it's theoretically better to dwell below 12:00 on the volume knob than it is to engage IE Match in order to get the knob nearer to 3:00?


Noting that the IEMatch components also need to burn in so you would need to run with it for a while in that mode to hear it at its best .


----------



## PROblemdetected

Firmware 5.3 cookies and cream installed. WIndows 10 Pro
When I plug in the DAC always light on yellow... Why is that? Im not playing any file and it goes yellow...


----------



## iFi audio

sakt1moko said:


> When I plug in the DAC always light on yellow... Why is that? Im not playing any file and it goes yellow...



What happens with that yellow LED when you play any music?



technobear said:


> Noting that the IEMatch components also need to burn in so you would need to run with it for a while in that mode to hear it at its best .



True!


----------



## osiris1

interesting...


----------



## Baten

osiris1 said:


> interesting...


Ohhhhhhhhh


----------



## iFi audio

osiris1 said:


> interesting...



Sure is


----------



## bzippy

JootecFromMars said:


> Remember. Whether you have the idsd in eco, normal or turbo, according to ifi, the listening volume should be between 12:00 and 3:00.



I can't get above 12:00 with any of my headphones, even in Eco (all full size over ear). So is it better, in theory, to dwell below 12:00 or to switch on IEMatch in order to get up into the 12:00-3:00 range?


----------



## osiris1

iFi audio said:


> Sure is



finally... a balanced out, and a 4.4 at that


----------



## iFi audio

osiris1 said:


> finally... a balanced out, and a 4.4 at that



Yup. We listened to what the community had to say 



bzippy said:


> I can't get above 12:00 with any of my headphones, even in Eco (all full size over ear). So is it better, in theory, to dwell below 12:00 or to switch on IEMatch in order to get up into the 12:00-3:00 range?



As long as you have enough headroom to comfortably operate volume knob and both channels are balanced, you're fine


----------



## bzippy (Oct 11, 2020)

bzippy said:


> I can't get above 12:00 with any of my headphones, even in Eco (all full size over ear). So is it better, in theory, to dwell below 12:00 or to switch on IEMatch in order to get up into the 12:00-3:00 range?





iFi audio said:


> As long as you have enough headroom to comfortably operate volume knob and both channels are balanced, you're fine



Great, thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

bzippy said:


> Great, thanks.



Sure, you're welcome!


----------



## networkn

I have a bit of a weird question: 

I am looking to consolidate my equipment potentially or at least determine if I have any major overlaps or gaps in what I'd ideally like:

What I have :

Beyer T1
HD800S
HD650 Gen 1
HD598SE (Was purchased for Gaming with my Sen GSX1000).

BiFrost v1 DAC
O2 Dac
GSX1000

Crack Amp with Speedball Upgrade
IFI Micro DSD (not black label)
Chord Mojo
O2 Amp
Liquid Carbon X Drop Edition (arriving in 2 days time).

I want a good portable set up and a good desktop set up, and happy to use the mobile set up for my desktop if that works.

I don't *need* to get rid of anything (though I really probably should), but wonder if there are overlaps making some of my gear redundant or if I should replace something I have that overlaps in favour of something more complimentary. I do prefer a warmer sound, but have an interest in trying something very analytical as well. Specifically wondering if the iDSD is more capable or as capable as the Chord Mojo, O2 Amp, or Liquid Carbon, for the headphones I have?

Cheers for any advice.


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> I do prefer a warmer sound, but have an interest in trying something very analytical as well. Specifically wondering if the iDSD is more capable or as capable as the Chord Mojo, O2 Amp, or Liquid Carbon, for the headphones I have?



Let me ask you about what your ears tell you? Which stuff you use the most and which the least? If I were you I'd focus on this and based on that I'd let go hardware that I use very little or don't use at all


----------



## networkn

I have my iDSD connected to my Galaxy Note via USB, and am playing from Spotify with highest quality set, and I am getting a yellow light on the unit. How do I get to Magenta ?


----------



## iFi audio (Oct 20, 2020)

networkn said:


> I have my iDSD connected to my Galaxy Note via USB, and am playing from Spotify with highest quality set, and I am getting a yellow light on the unit. How do I get to Magenta ?



Magenta is reserved for MQA audio playback. You need to make sure that what your Galaxy Note sends out is in fact MQA. The most popular app on Android to do that is UAPP.


----------



## mblain (Oct 20, 2020)

I'm curious, has anyone compared the USB vs COAX input on the micro BL? Is one better than the other? I've heard they both have their issues but wonder if one input was more efficient in processing a cleaner signal than the other.

I also have the nano iOne hooked up a pair of LSX which I just learned I can use it to convert the signal from the USB port to COAX and also have several zero jitter filters built-in so I might give it a go.

I currently have the iPurifier3 for the USB which skew things a little in favor of the USB. We'll see.

Ha, I just noticed at an audio event Ifi has the nano iOne splitting the signal to a couple of units. Nice!


----------



## iFi audio

mblain said:


> Ha, I just noticed at an audio event Ifi has the nano iOne splitting the signal to a couple of units. Nice!



Yup, it can do that 



mblain said:


> I'm curious, has anyone compared the USB vs COAX input on the micro BL? Is one better than the other? I've heard they both have their issues but wonder if one input was more efficient in processing a cleaner signal than the other.



It's a bit more complex. You'd have to take into account digital outputs of a device that sends data to the micro iDSD BL and interaction of all transmitters and receivers involved. But assuming that a product sends out equally good data via coax and USB, micro iDSD BL's digital inputs would sound the same.


----------



## mblain

iFi audio said:


> Yup, it can do that
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bit more complex. You'd have to take into account digital outputs of a device that sends data to the micro iDSD BL and interaction of all transmitters and receivers involved. But assuming that a product sends out equally good data via coax and USB, micro iDSD BL's digital inputs would sound the same.


Good to know. I figured there would be more to it. I'm just curious whether using the nano iOne to switch over to SPDIF if the quality changes at all.


----------



## Spankmaster

Hi, nice to read about your comments on this black magic box 
I got mine just recently and I'm very impressed about the pretty dark and precise sound signature even with HD660S with whom I was expecting to lose some clarity on top end.
The only concern for me is the short USB stock cable.
Can anybody recommend an aftermarket one with ~1.5m? Ideally available in the EU. Could not find anything e.g. at Audioquest which I like in terms of build quality.
THX and Cheers


----------



## mblain

Spankmaster said:


> Hi, nice to read about your comments on this black magic box
> I got mine just recently and I'm very impressed about the pretty dark and precise sound signature even with HD660S with whom I was expecting to lose some clarity on top end.
> The only concern for me is the short USB stock cable.
> Can anybody recommend an aftermarket one with ~1.5m? Ideally available in the EU. Could not find anything e.g. at Audioquest which I like in terms of build quality.
> THX and Cheers


I've been using a USB cable from Pangea which I'm happy with and have seen a bump in performance. I know Amazon sells them but I'm not sure if they're available in the EU.
https://www.pangeaaudio.com/cables/usb-cables

I've also researched and seen many who like the SUPRA USB cable and was the original one I was going to pull the trigger on.
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/supra-usb-2-0-type-a-to-type-b-cable

There's also a ton of various brands but they do start to get pretty pricey.
Shunyata Vemon
Chord cables
Kimber
Curious USB


----------



## iFi audio

mblain said:


> Curious USB



This one gained lots of love for its price-to-performance ratio. 



mblain said:


> I'm just curious whether using the nano iOne to switch over to SPDIF if the quality changes at all.



I'd wait for others to chime in on this one


----------



## Spankmaster

@mblain THX, I could find the SUPRA in a German shop with good availability. Will probably place PO and try it out!


----------



## dcguy73 (Oct 25, 2020)

Spankmaster said:


> @mblain THX, I could find the SUPRA in a German shop with good availability. Will probably place PO and try it out!


I had my headphone setup connected via a mishmash of cables, and after being impressed by Supra's HDMI/I2S cable, decided to rewire the rest of my system with Supra cables [USB/Ethernet/power].  I'm quite pleased with the outcome. Supra makes affordable quality stuff. Some of their dealers have storefronts on eBay.


----------



## Spankmaster

dcguy73 said:


> I had my headphone setup connected via a mishmash of cables, and after being impressed by Supra's HDMI/I2S cable, decided to rewire the rest of my system with Supra cables [USB/Ethernet/power].  I'm quite pleased with the outcome. Supra makes affordable quality stuff. Some of their dealers have storefronts on eBay.



I don't expect better sound quality but, same like you, better for my eye to have consistent setup with cables. I prefer Sommercable in general but think that there is no option for higher quality USB cable.


----------



## iFi audio

Spankmaster said:


> I prefer Sommercable in general but think that there is no option for higher quality USB cable.



As in, USB cables can't get any better  ?

(a friendly question )


----------



## Spankmaster

iFi audio said:


> As in, USB cables can't get any better  ?
> 
> (a friendly question )



Not sure if I got it correct.
I did never prove it 🙂 that they get better sound wise, just built quality should match with their main cable portfolio and so far there was not a big choice unless you configure and build it by yourself. I prefer already finished solution 😎


----------



## iFi audio

Spankmaster said:


> Not sure if I got it correct.
> I did never prove it 🙂 that they get better sound wise, just built quality should match with their main cable portfolio and so far there was not a big choice unless you configure and build it by yourself. I prefer already finished solution 😎



OK, that's fair enough


----------



## Maxpain

Hello to everyone,

I would like to ask a question about my idsd micro (silver)...I have been using it since I baught it at 2016 and as it is expected it's battery has lost its durability and it empties much quicker now. Is it possible to change the battery if I send the unit to my countries Ifi distributor? 

Are there better batteries to consider in terms of sound quality and durability? Or micro only accepts this one?

Thanks in advance and I wish a happy new year to everyone.


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> Hello to everyone,
> 
> I would like to ask a question about my idsd micro (silver)...I have been using it since I baught it at 2016 and as it is expected it's battery has lost its durability and it empties much quicker now. Is it possible to change the battery if I send the unit to my countries Ifi distributor?



Please drop us a mail here: support@ifi-audio.com

Our support team will do their best to help you out


----------



## LightBlue77 (Dec 28, 2020)

How would a battery increase the sound quality?
I plan to by the new ifi idsd signature even though I have some more expensive gear, it is compact and easy to move around.


----------



## iFi audio (Dec 30, 2020)

LightBlue77 said:


> How would a battery increase the sound quality?



Batteries are considered as less noisy versus regular power feed, but as per usual in audio it all comes down to the implementation.



LightBlue77 said:


> I plan to by the new ifi idsd signature even though I have some more expensive gear, it is compact and easy to move around.



Thanks! Once you do, please feel free to drop us a line how it works for you


----------



## LightBlue77

Ok, probably not very soon but I'm pretty sure it works great, i had ifi ican amp and micro idsd dac and amp and was very pleased with them. I remember that ican was very close if not equal to a burson v1 amplifier which was also very well regarded but about 3-4 times bigger and I think 2-3 times more expensive. I guess burson was better with more power hungry headphones but with lcd2f they were very close.
About the signature, I've seen one post on Fiio m15 thread saying it is better in sound quality then m15. I would expect that as amplifier, ifi would be better anyway.


----------



## iFi audio

LightBlue77 said:


> Ok, probably not very soon but I'm pretty sure it works great,


Thanks for your confidence in our products   



LightBlue77 said:


> Ok, probably not very soon but I'm pretty sure it works great,



Hopefully you'll be happy with it


----------



## networkn

Can I get the highest sound quality from the iDSD Micro if I upgrade to Tidal Hifi?


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> Can I get the highest sound quality from the iDSD Micro if I upgrade to Tidal Hifi?



micro iDSD BL/Signature will play whatever there is on Tidal, unless you had something else in mind?


----------



## antenorhs

Hi everyone!
My Micro IDSD Black Label is causing me some troble because of the IEMatch switch. It's causing distortion to the music and channel imbalance, because it's not a good switch and maybe there's something loosen inside it. I'll try to change it, but I can't find any replacement switch like those to change.
Does anyone knows how can I get a new switch over the internet?
Thanks!!!





Overall this switch seems to lack quality, like all other BL switches, They don't change positions firmly, and everytime I have to adjust them to the righ position.


----------



## iFi audio

antenorhs said:


> Hi everyone!
> My Micro IDSD Black Label is causing me some troble because of the IEMatch switch. It's causing distortion to the music and channel imbalance, because it's not a good switch and maybe there's something loosen inside it. I'll try to change it, but I can't find any replacement switch like those to change.
> Does anyone knows how can I get a new switch over the internet?
> Thanks!!!
> ...



Can you please open up a ticket at our support platform here?

https://support.ifi-audio.com

Thanks!


----------



## antenorhs

I already opened, but ifi is charging me 165 gbp to fix this Changing the pcb, besides weeks of waiting and two way International shipping ... but i don't think it worth and i think by changing this switch it will be allright with a fair cost and quickly.



iFi audio said:


> Can you please open up a ticket at our support platform here?
> 
> https://support.ifi-audio.com
> 
> Thanks!


I a


----------



## iFi audio

antenorhs said:


> but i don't think it worth and i think by changing this switch it will be allright with a fair cost and quickly.



Hey, if you can change this switch on your own, by all means please do so!


----------



## antenorhs

Sure. I only wanna know where can i buy it over the internet. I couldn't find.


----------



## iFi audio

antenorhs said:


> Sure. I only wanna know where can i buy it over the internet. I couldn't find.



That's understandable. I'll ask what type of a switch it is and I'll let you know *IF* I'm allowed to. If I am, I'll get back to you


----------



## antenorhs

iFi audio said:


> That's understandable. I'll ask what type of a switch it is and I'll let you know *IF* I'm allowed to. If I am, I'll get back to you


OK, that would be great!! Thank you so much!


----------



## LightBlue77

Mine also had this issue, iem switch was causing imbalanced sound, until I figured it out I thought it is definitely broken. Moving it a bit fixes the issue but it was annoying for a while.


----------



## antenorhs

LightBlue77 said:


> Mine also had this issue, iem switch was causing imbalanced sound, until I figured it out I thought it is definitely broken. Moving it a bit fixes the issue but it was annoying for a while.


Yeah... i had to pull out the plastic cap and open to clean using a contact cleaner can. When i moved the micro idsd over my desk, sometimes the iematch switch also moved, causing distortion and imbalance.


----------



## iFi audio (Jan 12, 2021)

LightBlue77 said:


> Mine also had this issue, iem switch was causing imbalanced sound, until I figured it out I thought it is definitely broken. Moving it a bit fixes the issue but it was annoying for a while.



Larger switches didn't make it because of how packed the product is inside, but I'll pass on this feedback to our R&D.


----------



## networkn (Jan 15, 2021)

I am having sudden issues with my Micro DSD unit. I upgraded it to 5.3 firmware and when I went into Tidal it said it had exclusive access to MQA (though still no purple light) but the volume is disabled. I installed the latest drivers as well and that is set to Max volume. The problem is the sound is barely audible to my Beyer T1's with the volume at 80% in Tidal or Spotify.  The music sounds mostly OK but does sound disorted at times as well. I am unsure what I have changed that I caused this. The output in Windows is set to IFI by AMR HD+ and USB.

In the Windows Sound Control Panel I have the sound set to 32Bit 192K but I have tried at 24bit 192K.   

I just tried this on my phone connected via USB-C as wel! It's the same. 

What can I check?


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> I am having sudden issues with my Micro DSD unit. I upgraded it to 5.3 firmware and when I went into Tidal it said it had exclusive access to MQA (though still no purple light) but the volume is disabled. I installed the latest drivers as well and that is set to Max volume. The problem is the sound is barely audible to my Beyer T1's with the volume at 80% in Tidal or Spotify.  The music sounds mostly OK but does sound disorted at times as well. I am unsure what I have changed that I caused this. The output in Windows is set to IFI by AMR HD+ and USB.
> 
> In the Windows Sound Control Panel I have the sound set to 32Bit 192K but I have tried at 24bit 192K.
> 
> ...



Is it normal if you're not using Tidal/Spotify? Can you please check?


----------



## networkn

Connected via USB to my laptop even youtube is pretty quiet.
Is it recommended to use the drivers from the IFI website or just use Windows 10 built in drivers? I assume I can't use the IFI Control Panel with the built in drivers? Seems like it's not the drivers though as it's quiet attached to my phone as well.


----------



## antenorhs

networkn said:


> Connected via USB to my laptop even youtube is pretty quiet.
> Is it recommended to use the drivers from the IFI website or just use Windows 10 built in drivers? I assume I can't use the IFI Control Panel with the built in drivers? Seems like it's not the drivers though as it's quiet attached to my phone as well.


Did you check the ieMatch switch? This switch is causing me trouble because it doesn't sets firmly in one position. And inside the unity there is a plastic cover over the switch, wich can obstruc its path, preventing you to disable it.


----------



## networkn

Wow nice catch @antenorhs I didn't notice it seems to have been bumped to the on position from off. I didn't checked it since I never touch those switches! Thanks, I was worried.


----------



## iFi audio

antenorhs said:


> Did you check the ieMatch switch?



Good catch!



networkn said:


> Wow nice catch @antenorhs I didn't notice it seems to have been bumped to the on position from off. I didn't checked it since I never touch those switches! Thanks, I was worried.



OK, so now everything is in order?


----------



## antenorhs

networkn said:


> Wow nice catch @antenorhs I didn't notice it seems to have been bumped to the on position from off. I didn't checked it since I never touch those switches! Thanks, I was worried.



Great! Glad to help!


----------



## networkn

@iFi audio Yes thanks, things appear to be working well. 

One thing I'd like to clarify, there is no magenta LED on the iDSD Micro, correct? So it's likely I am getting MQA even without it? Is there a way to confirm within the Tidal app?


----------



## iFi audio

networkn said:


> @iFi audio Yes thanks, things appear to be working well.



Good to know, thanks!



networkn said:


> One thing I'd like to clarify, there is no magenta LED on the iDSD Micro, correct? So it's likely I am getting MQA even without it? Is there a way to confirm within the Tidal app?



Please take a look here: https://ifi-audio.com/firmware/unified-firmware-for-various-products/

When micro iDSD BL came out, it didn't have a magenta LED. However, it is capable of MQA playback and its yellow LED confirms that it's engaged.


----------



## 9611838416m

antenorhs said:


> Hi everyone!
> My Micro IDSD Black Label is causing me some troble because of the IEMatch switch. It's causing distortion to the music and channel imbalance, because it's not a good switch and maybe there's something loosen inside it. I'll try to change it, but I can't find any replacement switch like those to change.
> Does anyone knows how can I get a new switch over the internet?
> Thanks!!!
> ...


I was looking into this problem as I bought a used micro and found out it has the IE match switch issue. I found this pretty similar component on Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/vertical-pcb-smd-3-way-micro_60818485814.html

I must make it clear, I haven't bought the component or fix the problem. Would be great if ifi could source these out to buyers.


----------



## iFi audio

9611838416m said:


> I must make it clear, I haven't bought the component or fix the problem. Would be great if ifi could source these out to buyers.



I wish we could, honestly


----------



## antenorhs

9611838416m said:


> I was looking into this problem as I bought a used micro and found out it has the IE match switch issue. I found this pretty similar component on Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/vertical-pcb-smd-3-way-micro_60818485814.html
> 
> I must make it clear, I haven't bought the component or fix the problem. Would be great if ifi could source these out to buyers.


I'll PM you. But take a look at my inner switch:





It has plenty of oxide and that's why it wasn't working properly. One thing you can do is use those volatile "contact cleaners" cans spraying it directly inside the switch e move it a little bit to loose the oxide. Otherwise you may try to change it.


----------



## antenorhs

Hi everyone!
I managed to get another (defective) unit of Ifi Micro IDSD BL. The DAC and amplifier are working well, but it's not charging the battery. Everytime it drains, I have to take it out and use an external charger. Does anyone knows what to do in this case or what to look at the main PCB to try to solve this issue? 
PS: I tryed to change the power management board, but still not works.
Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

antenorhs said:


> Hi everyone!
> I managed to get another (defective) unit of Ifi Micro IDSD BL. The DAC and amplifier are working well, but it's not charging the battery. Everytime it drains, I have to take it out and use an external charger. Does anyone knows what to do in this case or what to look at the main PCB to try to solve this issue?
> PS: I tryed to change the power management board, but still not works.
> Thanks!



You can always ask our support team here: https://support.ifi-audio.com

The odds that they'll know what to do with your issue are rather slim, but I'd still try!


----------



## Maxpain

Hello there, I would like to make a technical question about the use of the micro idsd. I have read in the past that someone can use the idsd as a usb to spdif converter (passthrough). Now I am considering the neo idsd and I would like to know if it would be possible to use the micro to connect the neo with my laptop using spdif connection. 

Would there be any benefit over the pure usb connection? what does the passthrough means? the micro using its clock to send the data to the neo or its just being in the way meaning that the neo still gets data from my laptop?

Thanks in advanced


----------



## Baten

Maxpain said:


> Hello there, I would like to make a technical question about the use of the micro idsd. I have read in the past that someone can use the idsd as a usb to spdif converter (passthrough). Now I am considering the neo idsd and I would like to know if it would be possible to use the micro to connect the neo with my laptop using spdif connection.


It'll just send the digital data over spdif, yeah. Really no point of doing this IMO.


----------



## Maxpain

Baten said:


> It'll just send the digital data over spdif, yeah. Really no point of doing this IMO.


Thanks for the reply. If someone wants to use the spdif connection its the only way considering laptops don't usually have  coaxial or optical outputs...


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> Thanks for the reply. If someone wants to use the spdif connection its the only way considering laptops don't usually have coaxial or optical outputs...



S/PDIF conversion can come in handy, that's true.


----------



## Maxpain

iFi audio said:


> S/PDIF conversion can come in handy, that's true.


Would you recommend the usb or the coaxial/optical input for the neo considering that my source is a laptop not a dedicated music streamer?


----------



## iFi audio

Maxpain said:


> Would you recommend the usb or the coaxial/optical input for the neo considering that my source is a laptop not a dedicated music streamer?


I'd recommend trying both if possible and sticking to the one that makes better sound.


----------



## osiris1

the weirdest thing with my silver unit. there was no sound out of the headphone jack... plugged/unplugged the headphones, cables tried a few headphones, plugged/unplugged the USBs, rebooted the PC, cleaned the jack, hooked it up to DAPs,... no sound at all. i thought the jack or the IEMatch switch was dead. i just left it aside for a few days. now i plug it in, and it's working again. i don't understand what had transpired. hope it doesn't die. 

anyone with this experience before?

@iFi audio is there instruction on how to disassemble the unit?


----------



## iFi audio

osiris1 said:


> the weirdest thing with my silver unit. there was no sound out of the headphone jack... plugged/unplugged the headphones, cables tried a few headphones, plugged/unplugged the USBs, rebooted the PC, cleaned the jack, hooked it up to DAPs,... no sound at all. i thought the jack or the IEMatch switch was dead. i just left it aside for a few days. now i plug it in, and it's working again. i don't understand what had transpired. hope it doesn't die.
> 
> anyone with this experience before?
> 
> @iFi audio is there instruction on how to disassemble the unit?



Although I don't have a manual you asked for, it should be fairly straightforward. Both front and rear panel are held via four bolts each, and upon removing them the main PCB should easily slide outside.


----------



## osiris1

iFi audio said:


> Although I don't have a manual you asked for, it should be fairly straightforward. Both front and rear panel are held via four bolts each, and upon removing them the main PCB should easily slide outside.


i think the volume pot holding screw has to be removed as well... and then there are those finicky switches.

any idea why there was no sound all of a sudden and now it's back again? Ghost in the Machine (pun intended)?


----------



## iFi audio

osiris1 said:


> i think the volume pot holding screw has to be removed as well... and then there are those finicky switches.



Yes, a smal screw holds volume knob in place and has to go too.



osiris1 said:


> any idea why there was no sound all of a sudden and now it's back again? Ghost in the Machine (pun intended)?



Although I have no idea what could cause this, you might want to let our support team know about this: https://support.ifi-audio.com


----------



## sooevo

How reliable has the Ifi Micro Black label been for everyone? I bought a used unit that came with the blinking blue light and then the blinking red and blue light which meant it wouldnt work on battery power. I sent it to ifi to get a new battery but it must have been pcb, usb power issue or something because I was told the pcb was reseated and had the micro sent back free of charge but with the same issues. Still battery wont charge but now I can get it to work on a charging brick. However now I cant get it to work off of the charging brick anymore. I get blinking lights. I let it charge overnight, I unplug and replug cables, but still the unit wotn work again.

I want a new unit but I dont want to be stuck with this issue again. I've read that some other people have had this issue and would like to know how wide spread it is before I consider buying another ifi micro bl. I like how it sounds but I dont like that it can possible have issues down the road considering the price.


----------



## iFi audio

sooevo said:


> I want a new unit but I dont want to be stuck with this issue again. I've read that some other people have had this issue and would like to know how wide spread it is before I consider buying another ifi micro bl. I like how it sounds but I dont like that it can possible have issues down the road considering the price.



Although I can't give you specific numbers, % of faulty micro iDSD BLs is very low and in the range where it should be considering how many were sold (lots!!!). Getting a new unit also means warranty, so this makes things easier in the event of any failure. Additionally, you might want to take a look at our micro iDSD Signature which effectively replaced micro iDSD BL.


----------



## curentatu

i`m curious about something, if i turn on the micro idsd bl and then plug it into my pc, will it also charge while its running from the battery ?


----------



## iFi audio

curentatu said:


> i`m curious about something, if i turn on the micro idsd bl and then plug it into my pc, will it also charge while its running from the battery ?



You might want to take a look here: https://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/index.php?a=search&q=battery&cid=20&topicId=

...and here: https://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=518


----------



## thebkt

I've been unable to get my iDSD BL to work as the audio device from my Android 11 phone.  For a long time it worked just fine out of my old Nexus 5, but on my newer Android I can't get it working.

I was able to find links to a now dead FAQ page that I remember describing the developer USB settings needed on the phone, but the article's gone now, so I'm not sure what needs to be done.


----------



## iFi audio

thebkt said:


> I've been unable to get my iDSD BL to work as the audio device from my Android 11 phone.  For a long time it worked just fine out of my old Nexus 5, but on my newer Android I can't get it working.
> 
> I was able to find links to a now dead FAQ page that I remember describing the developer USB settings needed on the phone, but the article's gone now, so I'm not sure what needs to be done.



Not sure if this is of any help, put here goes: 

Also, you can always ask our support team: https://support.ifi-audio.com


----------



## mandrake50

sooevo said:


> How reliable has the Ifi Micro Black label been for everyone? I bought a used unit that came with the blinking blue light and then the blinking red and blue light which meant it wouldnt work on battery power. I sent it to ifi to get a new battery but it must have been pcb, usb power issue or something because I was told the pcb was reseated and had the micro sent back free of charge but with the same issues. Still battery wont charge but now I can get it to work on a charging brick. However now I cant get it to work off of the charging brick anymore. I get blinking lights. I let it charge overnight, I unplug and replug cables, but still the unit wotn work again.
> 
> I want a new unit but I dont want to be stuck with this issue again. I've read that some other people have had this issue and would like to know how wide spread it is before I consider buying another ifi micro bl. I like how it sounds but I dont like that it can possible have issues down the road considering the price.


I have had mine since early 2017. Got it with a significant discount. It is in my computer system now and has been for about 3 years. Basically on 24X7. Using it for headphones when I don't want to fire up the surround system,  and analog out to an FM transmitter. It has never given me any problems. I used to keep it at work and it drove a Gustard H10. the BL is One of, if not THE best audio purchase I have made.


----------



## MusiCol

mandrake50 said:


> I have had mine since early 2017. Got it with a significant discount. It is in my computer system now and has been for about 3 years. Basically on 24X7. Using it for headphones when I don't want to fire up the surround system,  and analog out to an FM transmitter. It has never given me any problems. I used to keep it at work and it drove a Gustard H10. the BL is One of, if not THE best audio purchase I have made.


I’ll second that! THE best and one of the most frequently used audio devices I own. And that’s quite something considering I have a £30k HiFi which I love and no TV (by choice)!

I’ve had mine (both the original and the BL) since soon after they were first released and they’ve never skipped a beat. Not even any sign of significant battery degradation despite the BL being used for 10-30 hours per week, all on internal battery power, and left to recharge overnight 2-7 times per week - for all these years!

Wherever I go, if I take headphones (full size, or sometimes just IEM’s) I’ll take the BL, just drop it in a tough plastic bag inside my backpack with the appropriate cables and I know I’ve got music, YouTube, etc., for at least 2 or 3 days use or the longest journey I’ll ever take, plus backup power for my phone just in case there’s a mains power outage, I’m stranded, zombie apocalypse or whatever and my regular power bank doesn’t survive!

A powerful headphone amp that’s fine with IEM’s, a thoroughly capable DAC covering every bitrate you’ll ever have, a preamp And a USB charger in one bombproof metal unit that lasts forever? It is the ultimate audio version of a Swiss Army knife - far too useful to even consider parting with!


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## iFi audio

mandrake50 said:


> I have had mine since early 2017. Got it with a significant discount. It is in my computer system now and has been for about 3 years. Basically on 24X7. Using it for headphones when I don't want to fire up the surround system, and analog out to an FM transmitter. It has never given me any problems. I used to keep it at work and it drove a Gustard H10. the BL is One of, if not THE best audio purchase I have made.


Thanks a lot! It's always a pleasure reading about our older products that still make folks very happy 



MusiCol said:


> I’ll second that! THE best and one of the most frequently used audio devices I own. And that’s quite something considering I have a £30k HiFi which I love and no TV (by choice)!



Yes, that says a lot about where you are with your BL 

On a side note, what's your stereo setup like?



MusiCol said:


> A powerful headphone amp that’s fine with IEM’s, a thoroughly capable DAC covering every bitrate you’ll ever have, a preamp And a USB charger in one bombproof metal unit that lasts forever? It is the ultimate audio version of a Swiss Army knife - far too useful to even consider parting with!



Although micro iDSD BL was designed with sound quality as the top priority, we truly aimed at a device loaded with utilities to please as many people as possible and our approach didn't change since then


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## MusiCol

iFi audio said:


> Thanks a lot! It's always a pleasure reading about our older products that still make folks very happy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pleased to be able to give such positive comments! I used to be a retail manager and understand the value of happy customers!

This is my system. I use the AURALiC Taurus MkII primarily as a preamp as well as headphone amp; it’s added a whole new dimension to the clarity, detail, dynamics and imaging precision. There’s also a lot of high quality cables hiding round the back! Next on my list is a new power amp. I’ve had the MF A5 integrated longest of all current components and it drives the Martin Logan’s very well indeed, especially since adding the Taurus in place of the A5’s preamp section, but I’m always seeking the next step in sound quality! I must update my profile with the latest additions and upgrades. Happy listening! 




B


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## iFi audio

MusiCol said:


> Pleased to be able to give such positive comments! I used to be a retail manager and understand the value of happy customers!
> 
> This is my system. I use the AURALiC Taurus MkII primarily as a preamp as well as headphone amp; it’s added a whole new dimension to the clarity, detail, dynamics and imaging precision. There’s also a lot of high quality cables hiding round the back! Next on my list is a new power amp. I’ve had the MF A5 integrated longest of all current components and it drives the Martin Logan’s very well indeed, especially since adding the Taurus in place of the A5’s preamp section, but I’m always seeking the next step in sound quality! I must update my profile with the latest additions and upgrades. Happy listening!
> 
> B



That's a very nice setup! These MLs probably allow you to hear every nuance as clearly as it gets, don't they  ?


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## MusiCol

iFi audio said:


> That's a very nice setup! These MLs probably allow you to hear every nuance as clearly as it gets, don't they  ?


Thanks. Yes, they are extremely revealing speakers with incredible soundstage and imaging. Despite being quarter of a century old they just keep giving! Every so often I toy with the idea of upgrading them but thus far they’ve kept up with every upgrade to the source and amplification components. As long as that continues to be the case I’ll keep them - they sound amazing and they are also very good looking speakers! I feel very fortunate to have such a wonderful system.


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## iFi audio

MusiCol said:


> Thanks. Yes, they are extremely revealing speakers with incredible soundstage and imaging.



You've said it. Those are the exact traits why people go after Maggies, MLs and other estat speakers.


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## curentatu

is it possible to use both the headphone out and rca out at the same time on the Micro IDSD ?


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## iFi audio

curentatu said:


> is it possible to use both the headphone out and rca out at the same time on the Micro IDSD ?



If you mean micro iDSD BL, then yes, both its outputs are active at the same time.


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## curentatu

thank you.


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## iFi audio

curentatu said:


> thank you.



Sure, anytime!


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## deanorthk

I have ordered the iDSD signature, but... seems it's the wait time is longer than expected, it was told on the french site where I ordered 7-15 days, but in fact, nothing will come before mid january. nothing serioux that I can't whistand though


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## iFi audio

deanorthk said:


> I have ordered the iDSD signature, but... seems it's the wait time is longer than expected, it was told on the french site where I ordered 7-15 days, but in fact, nothing will come before mid january. nothing serioux that I can't whistand though



I imagine that it would be great having your micro iDSD Signature before holiday. Stay strong!


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## 9611838416m

I have an OG silver micro iDSD, how do you disassemble it? Does anyone have a video or set of pictures to help? I see that there were metal spikes (or rails IDK) that would hit the side switches if I tries to remove the board by sliding the outer shell off.


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## iFi audio

9611838416m said:


> I have an OG silver micro iDSD, how do you disassemble it? Does anyone have a video or set of pictures to help? I see that there were metal spikes (or rails IDK) that would hit the side switches if I tries to remove the board by sliding the outer shell off.



The trick is in removing rubber switches and upon sliding the main PCB gently pushing these switches so that they can go into internal rails. This task can be a bit challenging, but is doable.


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## lucidreamer (Dec 29, 2021)

RadioWonder737 said:


> Battery Replacement is not an end user DIY project... You need to send it to iFi Audio... This has been discussed already by iFi Audio...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/ids...the-meaty-monster-page-124/1365#post_10713255


Yes. It is a simple DIY project. Just upgraded mine today to a larger external battery.

Post in thread 'iDSD micro Black Label. Tour details (page 147). Release info (page 153).' https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ids...47-release-info-page-153.711217/post-16736714


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## iFi audio

lucidreamer said:


> Post in thread 'iDSD micro Black Label. Tour details (page 147). Release info (page 153).' https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ids...47-release-info-page-153.711217/post-16736714



Lovely DIY work, it's always cool seeing such efforts made on our products


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## jamca

antenorhs said:


> Hi everyone!
> My Micro IDSD Black Label is causing me some troble because of the IEMatch switch. It's causing distortion to the music and channel imbalance, because it's not a good switch and maybe there's something loosen inside it. I'll try to change it, but I can't find any replacement switch like those to change.
> Does anyone knows how can I get a new switch over the internet?
> Thanks!!!
> ...


Same issue with me since day one... really bad quality control...i used contract cleaner and it works for a while, but after a few days it does the same again. Love its sound, hate its construction quality. Volume knob also works after 10' (otherwise it has serious imbalance).  How did you manage to open yours ifi? Is it easy if i remove the four screws at the front of the unit? Should i be carefull and be aware of  anything else?


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## lucidreamer

jamca said:


> Same issue with me since day one... really bad quality control...i used contract cleaner and it works for a while, but after a few days it does the same again. Love its sound, hate its construction quality. Volume knob also works after 10' (otherwise it has serious imbalance).  How did you manage to open yours ifi? Is it easy if i remove the four screws at the front of the unit? Should i be carefull and be aware of  anything else?


I had the same issue with the first version of iDSD Micro (silver one). Both the Black and "Silver" ones use the same low-quality switch for IEMatch. I am pretty sure iFi was made aware of that issue and resolved it with a different switch in their Signature version later on. Ah, well..... $$$$ happens.

What I did to fix it was removing the switch metal cover by carefully clipping off and prying off the 2 soldered legs, the other 2 legs can be stress-cracked by moving the cover up and down and then removed altogether. After that, I removed the plastic switch itself with the tiny spring and the contact pins. Of course, the inner surfaces were covered with some soot or grease or who knows what that compromised the clean electrical contact between them. Then I just soldered the 2 pairs of contacts in the middle using a silver-based tin alloy. This way my switch is now permanently in the 2nd (High) position. I only use mine for IEM 7th Timeless planar phones anyways and it is a perfect match, there is absolutely no hissing without any signal and the volume level is perfectly matched too. 

Well, it does take a very steady hand, a magnifying headset and some good soldering skills combined with the precise fine soldering tip to do this project but it's pretty easy actually than it seems at first. I don't really see another way to fix this switch issue besides either soldering the pins permanently or replacing the whole switch which will be a harder task because finding another one that would fit the PCB layout is not something like ordering cookies on Amazon. 

If anyone has other suggestions/tips in regards to that issue - please chime in.


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## iFi audio

jamca said:


> Same issue with me since day one... really bad quality control...i used contract cleaner and it works for a while, but after a few days it does the same again.



Roger that and thanks for your feedback. If the product is still under warranty please contact your place of purchase. If it's not, please let our support team know about this and they'll do their best to help you: https://support.ifi-audio.com



jamca said:


> Volume knob also works after 10' (otherwise it has serious imbalance).



That is true given how powerful micro iDSD BL's headphone amp is and that's why this product has our iEMatch built in.



jamca said:


> Is it easy if i remove the four screws at the front of the unit? Should i be carefull and be aware of anything else?



If you intend to open the product on your own, during the removal of the main PCB you need to be extra careful about its switches on the side as they protrude a bit.


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## redryder

I’m currently using the micro idsd BL as a portable unit but the battery life sucks. I want to use it as a desktop unit that is plugged in all the time. 

Is it true that if I want to use it plugged in all the time, I can’t use the dac function? I basically have to use RCA inputs right?


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## iFi audio

redryder said:


> Is it true that if I want to use it plugged in all the time, I can’t use the dac function? I basically have to use RCA inputs right?



Please take a look at the point 8. in this manual: 

https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/MicroiDSDBL-manual.pdf

Prior to turning on your micro iDSD BL to a PC please first connect it via USB to a PC/laptop to engage the USB power mode. Then micro iDSD BL will operate as a DAC/amp combo as per usual, but with its internal battery bypassed. Thanks!


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## zdrvr

I've tried to search for the next issue with no luck.

idsd se, no right side headphone output signal when connected via usb input, but when I use the idsd as an headphone amplifier via 3.5 input both channels works fine.

I've tried update firmware and widows drivers but the problem is still there.

Has anyone have the same problem?

Thanks in advance.


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## iFi audio

zdrvr said:


> I've tried to search for the next issue with no luck.
> 
> idsd se, no right side headphone output signal when connected via usb input, but when I use the idsd as an headphone amplifier via 3.5 input both channels works fine.
> 
> ...



These symptoms you describe imply that something's off with your iDSD SE's digital circuitry. Can you please let us know about this here: https://support.ifi-audio.com

Our support staff will do their best to help you out!


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## MLGrado (Feb 8, 2022)

Wow.  I started this thread way back in 2014.  Who could have guessed it would last this long.

iFi is quite the different company these days; likewise my understanding of digital audio is light-years ahead of 2014, although that is not saying much.   Over the years I have received lots of PM, questions, and more than my fair share of ' you are full of $hit, stupid, etc' messages.  Fair enough.  Sometimes I cringe myself at what I wrote in 2014.  We all have to learn.

I am always so thankful to former chief designer/engineer at iFi, Thorsten Loesch, for his insights, and going above and beyond in answering my questions and them some.  I think most of you know T is no longer with iFi, although his intellectual property lives on in iFi.

My original 'Octa-Adopter' iDSD Micro, after a battery replacement, is still going strong and sounding good.

Although today if someone came to me for a recommendation, and is not looking for portability, I would say without any reservation go for the ZEN series.  Get a ZEN DAC and a ZEN head-amp, and call it a day over spending more on single box solution like the NEO.  If you are into vinyl, get a ZEN phono pre.  WOW.  What a killer piece of kit.  You could put it in a different box and charge quite a bit more and no more would ever consider it lacking in value.  It is that good.


Today?  I have moved up to the iFi iDSD Pro, on 2.08 firmware, and I doubt I will upgrade for a long long time.  There are a lot of lateral moves to be made out there.  iDSD PRO is an amazing realization of what the Burr Brown 1793 with custom filtering via FPGA with an amazing analog tube outlet can do.

Anyway, back to my enjoyment.  Carry on with the thread, and carry on just enjoying the music!!!


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## iFi audio

MLGrado said:


> Wow.  I started this thread way back in 2014.  Who could have guessed it would last this long.
> 
> iFi is quite the different company these days; likewise my understanding of digital audio is light-years ahead of 2014, although that is not saying much.   Over the years I have received lots of PM, questions, and more than my fair share of ' you are full of $hit, stupid, etc' messages.  Fair enough.  Sometimes I cringe myself at what I wrote in 2014.  We all have to learn.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for your feedback. Yes, it's been a while since 2014 and time goes by so fast indeed. As a company we're in a different place than we were and we've expanded significantly over the years. It also makes us very happy when we see that some folks still use our older products, so thank you again and enjoy!


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## redryder

Hi,

My MicroDSD BL is having issues with the headphone jack, not getting sound on the right side with multiple headphones tested. The funny thing is when I turn on the 3D  sound toggle switch, sound comes back on the right side for a while then goes away. 

Is this a common problem with the MicroDSDs? Not sure if its worth repairing or getting something new.


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## iFi audio

redryder said:


> Hi,
> 
> My MicroDSD BL is having issues with the headphone jack, not getting sound on the right side with multiple headphones tested. The funny thing is when I turn on the 3D  sound toggle switch, sound comes back on the right side for a while then goes away.
> 
> Is this a common problem with the MicroDSDs? Not sure if its worth repairing or getting something new.



If the same happens with multiple headphones, this means that something had to happen to your micro iDSD BL's headphone socket, which isn't a common issue. I'm guessing that yours isn't under warranty, but if it's a socket issue only, fixing that shouldn't be costly. If you'd like please let us know about that problem here: https://support.ifi-audio.com

Perhaps our support team will be able to help you out, thanks!


----------



## westsounds

Subjective question but can anyone recommend a firmware for the ifi IDSD Micro (silver version) that will give me the most euphoric midrange with some nice organic warmth to it, please?

If there's actually a difference in the firmware sounds that is.

I think vinyl sounds better but I'm hoping to get a very nice listenable digital set-up, it's just so much easier 

I'm still on the original firmware I believe.


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## iFi audio

westsounds said:


> Subjective question but can anyone recommend a firmware for the ifi IDSD Micro (silver version) that will give me the most euphoric midrange with some nice organic warmth to it, please?
> 
> If there's actually a difference in the firmware sounds that is.
> 
> ...



The most euphonic FW for your micro iDSD would be FW 5.3c. Please try this one and tell us what you think


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## westsounds

iFi audio said:


> The most euphonic FW for your micro iDSD would be FW 5.3c. Please try this one and tell us what you think


oh great, can't wait to try it. Thanks very much for taking the time to reply


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## iFi audio

westsounds said:


> oh great, can't wait to try it. Thanks very much for taking the time to reply


Sure, my pleasure!


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## westsounds (Oct 28, 2022)




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## pcsgcs (Dec 26, 2022)

iFi audio said:


> Sure, my pleasure!


I have the opportunity to buy this Micro iDSD on the second-hand market for a reasonable price. I wanna know if connecting it to the latest portable devices (iOS 14, Android 12) can bring any type of incompatibility. Also, where can I find all the stuff regarding the manual, firmware, drivers, etc? I looked up on your official web and this device is obsolete. Doesn’t even appear as a selectable option in most menus. The oldest micro idsd device selectable is the Black Label. Is all the stuff for the BL 100% compatible with the Silver version? And one last thing, how much better does it perform connected permanently to a iPower X psu?

EDIT: I am also curious about how it performs depending on which source you are charging it from: pc motherboard, ipower x, smartphone/table charger with quickcharge tech, etc. Does it have a noticeable impact on the sound and/or the lifespan of the circuitry? And i wonder too how much of an improvement there is between an iPurifier 2 and 3 and how these two compare to the bigger solutions like the Galvanic 3.0, Nano iUSB 3.0 and Micro iUSB 3.0.


----------



## iFi audio

pcsgcs said:


> I have the opportunity to buy this Micro iDSD on the second-hand market for a reasonable price. I wanna know if connecting it to the latest portable devices (iOS 14, Android 12) can bring any type of incompatibility. Also, where can I find all the stuff regarding the manual, firmware, drivers, etc?



Here's the manual for the product: https://manualzz.com/doc/25718937/micro-idsd-manual

...and here is the download page: https://ifi-audio.com/support/download-hub/

There please simply select micro iDSD from the list and you'll see all its firmware versions.



pcsgcs said:


> how much better does it perform connected permanently to a iPower X psu?



micro iDSD relies on its internal battery (charged via its USB input) and doesn't feature a regular DC inlet.



pcsgcs said:


> EDIT: I am also curious about how it performs depending on which source you are charging it from: pc motherboard, ipower x, smartphone/table charger with quickcharge tech, etc. Does it have a noticeable impact on the sound and/or the lifespan of the circuitry?



As above, micro iDSD relies on its battery and it doesn't matter much (if any at all) how it's charged. Some USB accessories will still improve its sound (iPurifier, nano/micro iUSB3.0 and iGalvanic3.0). Hope this helps, thanks!


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## pcsgcs (Dec 29, 2022)

iFi audio said:


> Here's the manual for the product: https://manualzz.com/doc/25718937/micro-idsd-manual
> 
> ...and here is the download page: https://ifi-audio.com/support/download-hub/
> 
> ...


What about this though: I wanna know if connecting it to the latest portable devices (iOS 14, Android 12) can bring any type of incompatibility.

Even though the Micro iDSD relies on its internal battery I’ve heard people saying (even the guy I’m buying it from) that plugging an iPower X psu into it makes the sound more rich and organic. And yes, the USB accessories you listed above will definitely improve the sound but I’m curious if a high end psu designed for audio can bring in a sound improvement as well.

EDIT: When the Micro iDSD gets connected to a portable device (Smartphone/Tablet/Hi-Res Player) works as an amp exclusively or does the dac from the device get "overridden" by the one on the iDSD?

Also, are all type of 5V chargers compatible (Sony XZ Premium QC3, Apple iPad, iPhone, etc)? This will not affect the components on the long run, right?

Little offtopic, do you guys have plans to release an improved version of the micro iDSD like iDSD Diablo Signature or something along these lines?

EDIT 2: What's the purpose of the polarity switch? Only this micro iDSD version and BL have it, later models lost it. Is there a specific reason as to why?,Some people say it does make a difference on some headphones. Others, when in doubt, better leave it on +.


----------



## iFi audio

pcsgcs said:


> Even though the Micro iDSD relies on its internal battery I’ve heard people saying (even the guy I’m buying it from) that plugging an iPower X psu into it



As I've explained, micro iDSD doesn't feature a DC inlet and charges via its USB input, so I'm not sure how would be able to connect an external PSU to it. Technically it's possible via an adapter, but very few people bother with that 



pcsgcs said:


> EDIT: When the Micro iDSD gets connected to a portable device (Smartphone/Tablet/Hi-Res Player) works as an amp exclusively or does the dac from the device get "overridden" by the one on the iDSD?



It's used as a DAC/amp device then, while your smartphone/tablet etc. are transports for it.



pcsgcs said:


> Also, are all type of 5V chargers compatible (Sony XZ Premium QC3, Apple iPad, iPhone, etc)? This will not affect the components on the long run, right?



A regular 5V/0.5A line will do and any higher amperage will chqrge micro iDSD's battery faster.



pcsgcs said:


> Little offtopic, do you guys have plans to release an improved version of the micro iDSD like iDSD Diablo Signature or something along these lines?



I strongly encourage you to take a look at products listed at https://ifi-audio.com. There's quite a few of them similar to micro iDSD 

Hope this helps, thanks!


----------



## JerseyD

Like pcsgcs above, I am curious what the purpose of the polarity switch is.


----------



## pcsgcs

iFi audio said:


> As I've explained, micro iDSD doesn't feature a DC inlet and charges via its USB input, so I'm not sure how would be able to connect an external PSU to it. Technically it's possible via an adapter, but very few people bother with that


It wasn't on my plans to connect an external psu to the micro idsd. On the amazon page for example you got that the iPower X is categorized as a dc psu.


iFi audio said:


> It's used as a DAC/amp device then, while your smartphone/tablet etc. are transports for it.


By transports you mean, they just provide the idsd with data, all the dac work will be put fully on the idsd, correct? I wanna make sure there are not gonna be any kind of weird bit/sample rate conversion during playback using apps like f2k or onkyo hf.


----------



## pcsgcs (Jan 1, 2023)

I'm looking forward to upgrade my living room tv aswell and i would like to know if your portable idsd lineup can be attached to either an LG C2 or a Philips 707/807 and how would the ideal setup look like.

EDIT: If I leave it plugged in permanently using an iPad or android charger just like an iPower X would, will it degrade its sound quality, battery life, pcb, etc?


----------



## iFi audio

pcsgcs said:


> On the amazon page for example you got that the iPower X is categorized as a dc psu.



That's correct, iPower X can be used with any DC-powered device, not only our products.



pcsgcs said:


> By transports you mean, they just provide the idsd with data, all the dac work will be put fully on the idsd, correct?



That's correct, yes


----------



## pcsgcs

iFi audio said:


> That's correct, iPower X can be used with any DC-powered device, not only our products.
> 
> 
> 
> That's correct, yes


Thank you so much for answering each question I've been putting the last couple of weeks.

Could you tell us what's the purpose of the polarity switch? The most expensive installments of the micro iDSD lost it as a feature so my guess is that's not very important.


----------



## pcsgcs

pcsgcs said:


> I'm looking forward to upgrade my living room tv aswell and i would like to know if your portable idsd lineup can be attached to either an LG C2 or a Philips 707/807 and how would the ideal setup look like.
> 
> EDIT: If I leave it plugged in permanently using an iPad or android charger just like an iPower X would, will it degrade its sound quality, battery life, pcb, etc?


I'd like to get the answers of these too if you don't mind. 

I've contacted LG's customer service and they didn't tell me much other than "well... uh... if the amplifier has ports then you have to match them with the correct ones from the tv"


----------



## iFi audio

pcsgcs said:


> Could you tell us what's the purpose of the polarity switch? The most expensive installments of the micro iDSD lost it as a feature so my guess is that's not very important.



One of Head-fi users nicely explains it here: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ws-and-comments.728236/page-120#post-11095753

Thanks!


----------

