# ifI iCan Pro - Impressions & Discussion



## grizzlybeast

iFi iCan Pro​ ​  
http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/ican-pro-featured-on-enjoy-the-music/​  ​ @iFi audio​ *specs posted here and below​*​  
*iCAN Pro*
  
 Here you go:
  
*Key features are:*

Balanced Output options on 3-Pin & 4-Pin XLR plus 6.3mm Jack on front panel.
Unbalanced outputs on 6.3mm Jack (direct) and two 3.5mm Jacks with built-in fixed iEMatch attenuation on front panel to drive IEMs etc. (same attenuation as in iDSD micro).
Balanced XLR & RCA outputs on back can carry Headphone out signal (for use as preamp or with Electrostatic Energiser) or loop through signal from inputs (for use with external pre-amp).
1 pair of XLR Inputs and three pairs of RCA Inputs.
20V maximum output, > 600mW into 600 Ohm headphones, appx 16,000mW maximum into 16 Ohm and appx. 6,000 mW continuous output into 16Ohm.
Three levels of gain selectable from Front Panel.
Balanced ALPS Volume control with remote control.
3D Holographic® for Headphones and XBass® (each adjustable in 3-Levels + Off).
Class A operation for all stages up to 240mW/600 Ohm, circuitry derived from professional tube-based studio equipment, implemented in a hybrid design mixing J-Fets, Bipolar transistors and Mosfets (as in Micro iCAN).
Full Dual-Mono design including internal power supplies, supplied with 15V/4A Ultra Low Noise PSU (Generation 2 design as also the updated PSU for Micro).
Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate Box will be introduced, 1,700V Peak-Peak maximum output, Bias selectable for Stax HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi Sockets fitted.
  

 *Balanced Headphone Amplifier*
  
 *PowerSource:*
 External DC 15V/4A
 *Inputs (Back):*
 1 x XLR True Balanced Stereo
  
 3 x RCA Stereo
 *Output Front):*
 4-Pin XLR Headphone Balanced
  
 Dual 3-Pin XLR Headphone Balanced
  
 6.3mm Headphone x2, single ended or balanced
  
 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter included
  
 3.5mm iEMatch attenuated x 2
 *Output (back):*
 XLR selectable Loop or HP Out
  
 RCA selectable Loop or HP Out
 *Volume Control:*
 Motorised ALPS 6-Way potentiometer in unique extended range series/shunt operation
  
  
 *Analogue Processing:*
 X-Bass, +3dB at 80Hz, 160Hz, 320Hz 
  
 3D Sound. 30/45/60 Degrees virtual Speaker angle
 *Gain:*
 0dB, 12dB and 24dB user-selectable
 *Signal to Noise Ratio:*
 >117dB(A)
 *Total Harmonic Distortion (THD):*
 <0.003%
 *Frequency Response:*
 0.5Hz to 500KHz(-3dB)
 *Output Power (16R cont):*
 > 6,000mW
 *Output Voltage (600R):*
 >20V (Balanced); > 10V (single ended)
 *Size:*
 220mm x 62mm X 190mm (W X H X D including feet and connectors)
  

  
 Not only does it look sexy, and is feature rich but its powerful and with tubes at that. Loving the features. Hopefully it sounds great! Please share impressions here
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !


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## grizzlybeast

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-364754-ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amp.aspx
  
 It looks like it is available for purchase here but I am not certain. I pm'd iFi about availablity etc and hope to hear back soon.


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## Dadracer

I think that the global launch will be at the Bristol HiFi Show in the UK on or around the 26th of February. Indeed looks like it will be joined by ewo other new product launches, which will be exciting........hopefully 
  
 http://www.bristolshow.co.uk/news_detail.lasso?newsid=7311#.VrcRURiLRdg


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## WNBC

Pretty cool.  Looking forward to the reviews.  I wished I hadn't splurged so much on amps over the past couple of months and just waited for this amp.  Any news on a pro DAC?  I am in the market for an upgrade over my current one.


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## dharma

wnbc said:


> Pretty cool.  Looking forward to the reviews.  I wished I hadn't splurged so much on amps over the past couple of months and just waited for this amp.  Any news on a pro DAC?  I am in the market for an upgrade over my current one.


 
  
 Just few words, about 'secrecy' in interview http://headpie.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/an-interview-with-ifi-audio-expatinjapan.html


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## WNBC

Cool, May or June for Pro iDSD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


dharma said:


> Just few words, about 'secrecy' in interview http://headpie.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/an-interview-with-ifi-audio-expatinjapan.html


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## supabayes

Looking forward to hear this at CanJam Singapore tomorrow.


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## HiFiRobot

When is this to be launched in EU ?


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## Dadracer

hifirobot said:


> When is this to be launched in EU ?


 
 I heard April mentioned but not sure of a definitive date. Drop a note to ifi Audio as they are good at responding.


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## Topspin70

Hope to see some comparison with the Retro Stereo 50. Tubes, powerful output, price range quite close. One dedicated and the other's an all-in-one, of course. But if performance is close, it'd be a tough one choosing between them.


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## raybone0566

Received a message from Kate at ifi on 2/22. She said things were pushed back a bit. Global launch beginning of April


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## Topspin70

I don't seem to see any mention of what tube is being used. Anyone knows or should I wait a whopping few more days before it launches?


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## LajostheHun

Ouch I was very excited till I saw the price on Music Direct [$1695]


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## Topspin70

Ifi has decided to enter the big league. Well in head fi at least. Their AMR range is in already in hifi big league and it's another world altogether.


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## roamling

found the manual here https://drive.google.com/a/yahoo-inc.com/file/d/0B_JxnM2KPwG4UFg0RXFraDlnM1k/view
  
 very curious what the "Connector for iFi Electrostatic Add-on Module" is....


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## Dadracer

roamling said:


> found the manual here https://drive.google.com/a/yahoo-inc.com/file/d/0B_JxnM2KPwG4UFg0RXFraDlnM1k/view
> 
> very curious what the "Connector for iFi Electrostatic Add-on Module" is....


 
 It means that you be able to use Electrostats with the amp instead of having to have a whole new dedicated amp for them. I'm not a real Doctor but I think I'm right in saying that Electrostats need a special transformer all to themselves to manage the voltage that they operate with. On the other hand someone that knows what they are talking about will be along in a minute................


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## Dadracer

topspin70 said:


> I don't seem to see any mention of what tube is being used. Anyone knows or should I wait a whopping few more days before it launches?


 
Amplification:
2 * GE 5670 Tube or 4 * Ultra Low Noise J-Fet, selected via front panel switch


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## Topspin70

dadracer said:


> [COLOR=141823]Amplification:[/COLOR][COLOR=141823]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=141823]2 * GE 5670 Tube or 4 * Ultra Low Noise J-Fet, selected via front panel switch[/COLOR]




Awesome. Just what I was hoping for. Using the GE5670 in the iTube and it's incredible for a tube. Not muddy noisy and slow like others I tried.


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## Priaptor

Just got one for testing.  
  
 So far I have only tried it with my LCD-X on TUBE+ at 0db gain single ended in from my HUGO and balanced out to my cans.  
  
 Preliminary I think we have a REAL winner on our hands with this.  
  
 I will report more after I try it balance in from my MSB with HD800s and LCD-X as well as with HUGO and MOJO using all settings.


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## Topspin70

priaptor said:


> Just got one for testing.
> 
> So far I have only tried it with my LCD-X on TUBE+ at 0db gain single ended in from my HUGO and balanced out to my cans.
> 
> ...




I'm all ears! Staying tuned for your report.


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## svmusa

priaptor said:


> Just got one for testing.
> 
> So far I have only tried it with my LCD-X on TUBE+ at 0db gain single ended in from my HUGO and balanced out to my cans.
> 
> ...


 
 Would welcome some preliminary feedback on the Xbass setting. Thx


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## TheOneInYellow

A Polish review of the iFi Pro iCan is up.

Prepare your wallets, and apologies in advance:

Hifiphilosophy.com- Review: ifi PRO iCAN (by Karol Ryka?)


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## Priaptor

svmusa said:


> Would welcome some preliminary feedback on the Xbass setting. Thx


 
 As the next post claims, this is a very special amp.  I will tell you that I test bass on Heartplay by Forcione and Haden, the latter playing double bass that is ear shattering.  On my big system my room is about to explode, not because of bass overhang but because of the way the album was mixed and the power of my speakers.  This is my ultimate test for bass for whatever equipment I am testing out.  With the LCD-X absolutely no need for Xbass setting and in fact I found the LCD-X became overwhelmed.  The HD800s was fantastic on either no boost or first setting.  
  
 This is a wonderful product.  Incredible latitude for everyone to tune to their desire.  I must admit upfront, I am not a basshead, but do like clean natural bass.  While this is the best, by far I have ever heard the LCD-X, I can't stop listening to the HD800s with the combination of this headamp and my HUGO.  I use +9db, Tube+, no bass or 3D setting and it is heavenly.  I felt my Liquid Carbon was better than the iCan SE by a substantial margin but this is the best I have heard so far.  I have a Cavalli Liquid Gold on order and will definitely be buying the iPRO, at least to keep me happy until the Tungsten is released.


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## svmusa

Thx Priaptor, 
I am a borderline basshead but want to have quality and enjoy the bass slam and rumble without sacrificing mids or highs.
I am looking at SE or Pro as my end game amp for Th900 MK2 and JVC HP Dx1000 phones for having ability to tune bass to my liking without having to tinker with EQ. My old Fiio E07K does a good job with ability to boost bass with +5 setting and looking to replace it with a better amp having similar tone control abilities.

From power perspective SE is more than enough for my needs, is sort of portable and fits the price bracket but want to find out how much difference xbass tuning variance exists with Pro so that I can see which route to go.


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## Priaptor

svmusa said:


> Thx Priaptor,
> I am a borderline basshead but want to have quality and enjoy the bass slam and rumble without sacrificing mids or highs.
> I am looking at SE or Pro as my end game amp for Th900 MK2 and JVC HP Dx1000 phones for having ability to tune bass to my liking without having to tinker with EQ. My old Fiio E07K does a good job with ability to boost bass with +5 setting and looking to replace it with a better amp having similar tone control abilities.
> 
> From power perspective SE is more than enough for my needs, is sort of portable and fits the price bracket but want to find out how much difference xbass tuning variance exists with Pro so that I can see which route to go.


 
 I had the SE here for an extended trial.  There is no comparison between the two units, IMHO.  I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon here until my Gold arrives and thought the LC was a much better sounding amp than the SE (for brevity I will leave out all the sonic verbiage).  The PRO is extremely good.  I was truly not expecting it to be this good (actually hoping).  I recognize iFi has always made excellent products when weighed against price versus the competition but I was very leery about their ability to jump to the "high end".  While I get the price differential, this could easily be a person's endgame purchase as it is that good, will meet all your future needs should you decide to move in a different direction including electrostatics with their add on module.  It is incredibly flexible, built like a tank with a sound to die for.  It will bring out the best of your cans.  It really is a huge step up from the SE.  It gets my highest praise and despite it's price I think it is a bargain.


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## wasupdog

how would you sum up the differences compared to the liquid carbon?


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## Seamaster

I wish pro DSD is tube too


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## Seamaster

Also, if the pro can use wi-if like Sonos to connect with source computer, that would be ideal!


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## bluesaint

seamaster said:


> I wish pro DSD is tube too


 
 It is. IFI already said iDSD Pro will have the same twin GE tubes.


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## Seamaster

bluesaint said:


> It is. IFI already said iDSD Pro will have the same twin GE tubes.


 

 Oh, man, that is great! Thanks.


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## Topspin70

priaptor said:


> svmusa said:
> 
> 
> > Thx Priaptor,
> ...




Ditto wasupdog. Please give us sonic verbiage. In what way is it better than SE and LC?


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## Priaptor

topspin70 said:


> Ditto wasupdog. Please give us sonic verbiage. In what way is it better than SE and LC?




The LC is an incredibly detailed amp. More than the SE. In terms of spatial resolution particularly with the HD800s one is holographic while the SE makes the HD800s sound on your head limiting the can's true capabilities. Bass on the LC was very good on the HD800s (not a bass head delight mind you) fair with SE and not very controlled. With the LCD-X IMO IT sounded like a speaker with significant bass overhang or a poorly placed speaker. I felt the SE was rolled off and much less appealing than the LC with either the LCD-X or my 800s. The main strength of the SE were midrange and upper mids which it did very well on either headphone. However when having the LC as an alternative I found it hard to want to listen to the SE. The LC has much better balance albeit with slightly less authority than the SE even at high gain on the LC when using the 800s. The LC timbre was more accurate and transparent and overall more enjoyable, listenable and more like my big system than the SE. 

However the Pro is a different beast altogether. I still haven't even evaluated in anything other than Tube+ mode. First it is an amp with authority with a sound signature very comparable to my ARC GS150 on my big speaker system. It will bring out all that your headphone is capable of reproducing. Midrange and upper octaves are to die for. Strings and horns surreal. Vocals are warm and rich and right there perfectly imaged. Bass is strong and accurate and not overpowering. The best I have ever heard Heartplay by Forcione and Haden the latter playing double bass that really taxes any system. The best I have ever heard either the LCD-X or 800s. The LC doesn't compare below 125 Hz . It is as detailed as the LC as holographic as the LC but a touch less analytical. It is not overly "tube like" that softens or warms the music in that subjectively (by many) likeable way that so many describe as "analogue like" but is almost perfectly balanced. 

I thought the LC had a very dark and black background but the Pro has it beat. Noise floor incredible. 

As much as I enjoy the LC (and I obviously do as I ordered the Lau at the LC discount) if I had to choose the LC versus the Pro and had to stretch at double the price (now with the LC at 799) I would go for the Pro. Between the SE and the LC I would take the LC in a heartbeat. The Pro is also built beautifully and looks and feels "high end". The ergonomics of the thing is better than most 40k amplifiers or preamps. 

I obviously like this product. So much so I put myself on the list and will probably sell my LC. Lastly I was about to sell my LCD-X as the HD800s, IMO outperformed it so much with the LC I thought I would never listen again. I figured I was getting the best I could from the LCD-X with the LC. Well the Pro mates great with it with authoritative bass and while not the HD800s in terms of spatial resolution or articulation is absolutely fantastic with a broad range of music particularly symphonies where the full audible spectrum is needed.


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## Topspin70

Thanks Priaptor! Fantastic insight into the 3 amps. I'm totally game for the Pro then. From your description the LC sounds better than the SE in the same ways as the Taurus Mk2 and I already have that. But when u say the Pro is less analytical, rich and with great mids, I immediately know that's what I want. In fact I'm using the SE more than the Taurus for those reasons. Seems like a signature of ifi but clearly the Pro takes it to a whole new level.


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## Priaptor

topspin70 said:


> Thanks Priaptor! Fantastic insight into the 3 amps. I'm totally game for the Pro then. From your description the LC sounds better than the SE in the same ways as the Taurus Mk2 and I already have that. But when u say the Pro is less analytical, rich and with great mids, I immediately know that's what I want. In fact I'm using the SE more than the Taurus for those reasons. Seems like a signature of ifi but clearly the Pro takes it to a whole new level.


 
 I think it was Eaban (not sure of the spelling) who wrote an interesting article at Six Moons about likes, dislikes, audio dogma, etc.  There are those people who want to hear a mouse fart in the corner of a concert hall and believe that is "right way", in other words being part of the band/orchestra, etc hearing every nuance as though you are one of the performers; while others want front row center; while others want mid orchestra, etc etc.  I am not here to say what is right or wrong just where my tastes lie.  
  
 While I am not looking to insult anyone's tastes, it really is a matter of tastes.  In my old days I was an audio dealer and those who first got blown away by the "high end" wanted an ultra detailed sound in order to hear that mouse fart.  For me, that kind of a sound usually leads to fatigue, is not what I would interpret as accurate from a listener's perspective, but that is me.  But there was a time, early on, that was enticing to me.  
  
 After listening to these three amps, it is my opinion, you can't go wrong with the Pro.  It really is that good.


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## Topspin70

priaptor said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Priaptor! Fantastic insight into the 3 amps. I'm totally game for the Pro then. From your description the LC sounds better than the SE in the same ways as the Taurus Mk2 and I already have that. But when u say the Pro is less analytical, rich and with great mids, I immediately know that's what I want. In fact I'm using the SE more than the Taurus for those reasons. Seems like a signature of ifi but clearly the Pro takes it to a whole new level.
> ...




I have no doubt it's something I'd salivate over. But in my haste I forgot that my SE is paired with an iTube so I should hear a lesser difference than that between your SE and the Pro. Still there will be a difference and given how much I love the SE+iTube I am just dying to know how much better things can get and whether it justifies the additional bucks.


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## LajostheHun

priaptor said:


> The LC is an incredibly detailed amp. More than the SE. In terms of spatial resolution particularly with the HD800s one is holographic while the SE makes the HD800s sound on your head limiting the can's true capabilities. Bass on the LC was very good on the HD800s (not a bass head delight mind you) fair with SE and not very controlled. With the LCD-X IMO IT sounded like a speaker with significant bass overhang or a poorly placed speaker. I felt the SE was rolled off and much less appealing than the LC with either the LCD-X or my 800s. The main strength of the SE were midrange and upper mids which it did very well on either headphone. However when having the LC as an alternative I found it hard to want to listen to the SE. The LC has much better balance albeit with slightly less authority than the SE even at high gain on the LC when using the 800s. The LC timbre was more accurate and transparent and overall more enjoyable, listenable and more like my big system than the SE.
> 
> However the Pro is a different beast altogether. I still haven't even evaluated in anything other than Tube+ mode. First it is an amp with authority with a sound signature very comparable to my ARC GS150 on my big speaker system. It will bring out all that your headphone is capable of reproducing. Midrange and upper octaves are to die for. Strings and horns surreal. Vocals are warm and rich and right there perfectly imaged. Bass is strong and accurate and not overpowering. The best I have ever heard Heartplay by Forcione and Haden the latter playing double bass that really taxes any system. The best I have ever heard either the LCD-X or 800s. The LC doesn't compare below 125 Hz . It is as detailed as the LC as holographic as the LC but a touch less analytical. It is not overly "tube like" that softens or warms the music in that subjectively (by many) likeable way that so many describe as "analogue like" but is almost perfectly balanced.
> 
> ...




While I can't comment on this amp and the SE I only have the Ican to compare, my LC was just flat out poor sounding to the lowly Ican. Granted I don't have the complement of your headphones, but somehow made all my headphones sounding thin and shouty. It was anything but dark or black background, especially in SE mode. Balanced was as such, but so is my cheap Fiio amps. I'm glad that so many of you like it though, it was an easiest sell of anything I ever tried to do so. YMMV.


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## Topspin70

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-ican/

For those who aren't subbed to the other ifi pro thread. Here the link. It's finally here!!


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## onsionsi

Does someone tried this iFi iCan Pro with HE1000 or HD800s


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## Rob N

Why does the remote not provide continuous increase or decrease to volume when you keep your finger on it?


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## WNBC

Maybe a kid-safe remote.  I know what happens when my kids grab the stereo remote    Only happened when they were one year olds, but boy did they learn that sound can make one cry.
  
 But more seriously, I guess it is about safety because that amp of yours packs a punch.  Helps keep one's headphones from blowing up from rare accidents (stranger/friend/relative just grabbing the remote and turning it up; something falling/sitting on top of the remote volume button;  holding the remote upside down after one's favorite cocktail).    
  
 Excited to read impressions of the iCan Pro.  I'm not in the market for a new amp as I'm enjoying my current amp and I have a Liquid Carbon coming in a couple months.  However, I never let rationality influence my purchases   I probably need the iDSD Pro before the iCan Pro, but lets read what you all have to say about this special amp.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


rob n said:


> Why does the remote not provide continuous increase or decrease to volume when you keep your finger on it?


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## grizzlybeast




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## grizzlybeast

How much does this sucker weigh


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## grdlow

I got my iCan Pro last week and have been burning it in continuously for the past week (~120hrs). Here are some quick listening impressions of the amp thru a pair of HD800S. 
  
*Settings:* Solid state mode, XBass and 3D Holographic off, 0 gain, 4-pin XLR output
  
*Sound:* The iCan Pro offers a beautiful creamy mid-range, deep slamming bass and sweet silky treble, with the most organic and natural tonality out of all my previous amps (hdva600, bha-1). It is easy to appreciate how the different elements of a recording are presented in their own 3-dimensional spaces with pinpoint precision in a wide and deep, holographic soundstage. The amp is able to faithfully reproduce the delicate nuances of any recording. It is incredibly smooth with no hint of grain even on solid state mode, and yet can sound enthusiastic and dynamic when the music calls for it. Taken together, the experience is nothing short of stunning.
  
 I'm loving it and it ranks among the best headphone amps at any price.


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## Topspin70

Drooling more now. Just curious what test tracks did you use?


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## grdlow

topspin70 said:


> Drooling more now. Just curious what test tracks did you use?


 
  
 Santana - Black Magic Woman
 Eagles - Hotel California (Hell Freezes Over Live Version)
 Eric Clapton - Tears in Heaven (Acoustic)
 John Martyn - Strange Fruit
 Pink Martini - Tea for Two
 Hooverphonic - My Autumn's Done Come
 Brad Mehldau - Song Song
 Nina Simone - Wild is the Wind
 Bebel Gilberto - Samba e Amor
  
 Anne Sophie Mutter - Carmen Fantasie - Zigeunerweisen Op. 20
 Anne Sophie Mutter - Carmen Fantasie - Meditation
 Orchestre de la Suisse Romande - Tchaikovsky - Swan Lake - Act II: Scene and Pas de Deux
 Strauss: Der Rosenkavalier Suite - Ravel - Bolero
  
 Massive Attack - Angel
 Henrik Schwarz - Unknown Touch
 Gui Boratto - Arquipelago


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## grdlow

grizzlybeast said:


> How much does this sucker weigh


 
 i reckon between 2 to 3 kg


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## Topspin70

grdlow said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > Drooling more now. Just curious what test tracks did you use?
> ...




Good list of tracks. Looks like the amp sounds good across many genres.


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## Rob N

grdlow said:


> I got my iCan Pro last week and have been burning it in continuously for the past week (~120hrs). Here are some quick listening impressions of the amp thru a pair of HD800S.
> 
> *Settings:* Solid state mode, XBass and 3D Holographic off, 0 gain, 4-pin XLR output
> 
> ...




Have you tried any of the bass or 3D settings?


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## grdlow

rob n said:


> Have you tried any of the bass or 3D settings?



Not yet. I find that the HD800S is not lacking at all in bass or soundstage when driven by the iCan Pro on default settings.


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## Rob N

I agree with your comments about creamy smoothness even more so on the Tube+ setting,so far very impressed


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## grizzlybeast

I wanna know how this compares to some of the other headphone amps out there. Especially as a solid state amp since I have a tube amp already.


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## Koolpep

grdlow said:


> i reckon between 2 to 3 kg




It's less than that. I actually think it's too light. With the big solid plugs and cables, it slid around a but and I always had to use my other than to keep it in place...

This is my ONLY complaint about this amp. Everything else is really really absolutely amazing. Value for money is outstanding imho.

Cheers.


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## grizzlybeast

ahhh usually small and light gear means a power supply compromise. I am curious about that. I would definitely have to hear it before buying.


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## Rob N

The power supply is a switching 15v 4A one


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## Topspin70

Wall wart? IPower plus if I am not mistaken.


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## andromeda1954

http://hifiphilosophy.com/review-ifi-pro-ican/


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## murphythecat

priaptor said:


> I had the SE here for an extended trial.  There is no comparison between the two units, IMHO.  I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon here until my Gold arrives and thought the LC was a much better sounding amp than the SE (for brevity I will leave out all the sonic verbiage).  The PRO is extremely good.  I was truly not expecting it to be this good (actually hoping).  I recognize iFi has always made excellent products when weighed against price versus the competition but I was very leery about their ability to jump to the "high end".  While I get the price differential, this could easily be a person's endgame purchase as it is that good, will meet all your future needs should you decide to move in a different direction including electrostatics with their add on module.  It is incredibly flexible, built like a tank with a sound to die for.  It will bring out the best of your cans.  It really is a huge step up from the SE.  It gets my highest praise and despite it's price I think it is a bargain.


 
 I know that the ifi ican se needed 500 hours to even be able to compare to the previous ifi ican. are you sure your unit was well break in?


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## grizzlybeast

andromeda1954 said:


> http://hifiphilosophy.com/review-ifi-pro-ican/


 
 cool. That was a thorough review. but I don't understand the references as much. 
  
 I really want to see the ifi benchmarked against the current popular amps like the Ragnarok, Taurus MKII etc etc.


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## grdlow

grizzlybeast said:


> I wanna know how this compares to some of the other headphone amps out there. Especially as a solid state amp since I have a tube amp already.


 
 I have owned the Sennheiser HDVA600 and Bryston BHA-1 prior to the iFi iCan Pro. I would rank them in the following order:
  
 iFi iCan Pro >> Bryston BHA-1 > Sennheiser HDVA600
  
 The iCan Pro is the most powerful amp by far, and it exceeds the other amps in most aspects (i.e. detail, tonality, richness, smoothness, imaging, sound stage, dynamic contrast).


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## Koolpep

My review is up:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/16100
  
 I am absolutely excited about this amp. Had to return the review loaner but will have to save up to get this baby. It's really amazing bang for the buck and the versatility really makes it an amp that can do it all.
  
 Cheers!


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## Topspin70

murphythecat said:


> priaptor said:
> 
> 
> > I had the SE here for an extended trial.  There is no comparison between the two units, IMHO.  I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon here until my Gold arrives and thought the LC was a much better sounding amp than the SE (for brevity I will leave out all the sonic verbiage).  The PRO is extremely good.  I was truly not expecting it to be this good (actually hoping).  I recognize iFi has always made excellent products when weighed against price versus the competition but I was very leery about their ability to jump to the "high end".  While I get the price differential, this could easily be a person's endgame purchase as it is that good, will meet all your future needs should you decide to move in a different direction including electrostatics with their add on module.  It is incredibly flexible, built like a tank with a sound to die for.  It will bring out the best of your cans.  It really is a huge step up from the SE.  It gets my highest praise and despite it's price I think it is a bargain.
> ...




I added an iTube to the iCAN SE and the SQ improved quite substantially. I'm keen to hear how such a combo compare with the Pro, which to me is a turbo charged version of the combo.


----------



## murphythecat

topspin70 said:


> I added an iTube to the iCAN SE and the SQ improved quite substantially. I'm keen to hear how such a combo compare with the Pro, which to me is a turbo charged version of the combo.


 
 I tried the ifi itube, I still have it.
 I must say that even in buffer mode, the lost of resolution, even if very small, was not worth it. YMMV


----------



## Topspin70

murphythecat said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > I added an iTube to the iCAN SE and the SQ improved quite substantially. I'm keen to hear how such a combo compare with the Pro, which to me is a turbo charged version of the combo.
> ...




That's interesting. I have the exact opposite experience. ITube improved realism, depth and resolution. Goes to show our own ears are our best judge.


----------



## grdlow

grdlow said:


> I got my iCan Pro last week and have been burning it in continuously for the past week (~120hrs). Here are some quick listening impressions of the amp thru a pair of HD800S.
> 
> *Settings:* Solid state mode, XBass and 3D Holographic off, 0 gain, 4-pin XLR output
> 
> ...



Tried the Tube+ setting today and there seemed to be positive gains in airiness, texture and resolution. However, the sound also seemed a little thinner and sharper. I know the tubes are still new with barely an hour of use, so hopefully as they burn-in the sound will improve.


----------



## EVOLVIST

grdlow said:


> I have owned the Sennheiser HDVA600 and Bryston BHA-1 prior to the iFi iCan Pro. I would rank them in the following order:
> 
> iFi iCan Pro >> Bryston BHA-1 > Sennheiser HDVA600
> 
> The iCan Pro is the most powerful amp by far, and it exceeds the other amps in most aspects (i.e. detail, tonality, richness, smoothness, imaging, sound stage, dynamic contrast).




Say, what kind of DAC are you using? Don't have a balanced DAC anymore, since I am using the iDSD micro, and I worry that I won't get the full benefits of the iCAN Pro without a balanced DAC like the iDSD Pro when it comes out.


----------



## grizzlybeast

evolvist said:


> grdlow said:
> 
> 
> > I have owned the Sennheiser HDVA600 and Bryston BHA-1 prior to the iFi iCan Pro. I would rank them in the following order:
> ...




No offense my kind friend but even if its balanced any DAC in that tier will hold it back. 1700 smacks should sound TOTL for an amp. You should hear improvement though. I would think getting it still makes sense, especially if you plan on upgrading your DAC.


----------



## EVOLVIST

grizzlybeast said:


> No offense my kind friend but even if its balanced any DAC in that tier will hold it back. 1700 smacks should sound TOTL for an amp. You should hear improvement though. I would think getting it still makes sense, especially if you plan on upgrading your DAC.


 
  
  
 No offense taken. I mean, I used to go all balanced, but when I ran into the iDSD micro, I just had to have it because it was that good, even if I had to run an RCA to XLR cable to the back of my SPL Auditor. But, of course, originally the iCAN Pro and the iDSD Pro were supposed to come out at the same time, and I would have gotten both automatically. Now it seems the iDSD Pro will come out in Q4.
  
 Well, regardless, I should be able to compare apples to apples with my Auditor vs. the iCAN Pro running the same DAC. I could only imagine that it would get better with the iDSD + iCAN Pro combo. Sooooooo...there's always more to look forward to. Especially since I'll start off using my dual 3-pin XLRs for the iCAN Pro, yet I often wonder if I should get the Senn manufactured 4-pin XLR cable for the HD800s.
  
 Anyway, the iCAN Pro is on order with Music Direct. Now I'm just waiting for the model to hit United States shores.


----------



## grdlow

evolvist said:


> Say, what kind of DAC are you using? Don't have a balanced DAC anymore, since I am using the iDSD micro, and I worry that I won't get the full benefits of the iCAN Pro without a balanced DAC like the iDSD Pro when it comes out.


Schiit Yggdrasil

The choice of DAC makes a greater difference than single ended or balanced connections. I first heard the iCan Pro at a shop which was connected to the single ended iDAC2. It was quite decent still.


----------



## JWahl

grdlow said:


> Schiit Yggdrasil
> 
> The choice of DAC makes a greater difference than single ended or balanced connections. I first heard the iCan Pro at a shop which was connected to the single ended iDAC2. It was quite decent still.


 

 That's good to hear.  I used to have the Yggdrasil /w Trafomatic Head 2, and also my old Eddie Current Super 7.  I've since had to downgrade to the Gungnir MB and ECP Torpedo III.  I like the T3 but I'm still curious about the iCan Pro.  And curious how it meshes with the Schiit MB DACs.  Also using an HD650 now instead of HD800, but I'd like to upgrade back again, to an HD800S in the future.


----------



## grizzlybeast

jwahl said:


> grdlow said:
> 
> 
> > Schiit Yggdrasil
> ...



Is ths torpedo really a downgrade from the TH2... Prob not? 
The ican pro seems like it trys to do so many things. It cant possibly beat the torpedo at its own game. A built t3 is 1200 and is said to be a bargain at its price. 
 Knowing ifi its been thoroughly thought out and developed. I really want to hear one though.


----------



## MaceHane2

Do we know the official (according to iFi) UK price?
 Currently, at the couple of UK online places that have it, I'm seeing it as being £1500. I was hoping it would be closer
 to circa £1200, based on other currency ($) prices.
 Ah well ..... £1000 was my upper budget for a genuinely (hopefully!) great amp, and this little gem almost seems too good to
 be true. Gonna be a long time 'til I can get another five hundred!
 Bugger.


----------



## Rob N

UK price is £1495


----------



## EVOLVIST

Well, it looks as if the eagle has landed in the US of A. Mine will be here at my home on Friday. 
  
 Now begins the burn-in. Yay!


----------



## JWahl

grizzlybeast said:


> Is ths torpedo really a downgrade from the TH2... Prob not?
> The ican pro seems like it trys to do so many things. It cant possibly beat the torpedo at its own game. A built t3 is 1200 and is said to be a bargain at its price.
> Knowing ifi its been thoroughly thought out and developed. I really want to hear one though.


 
 It's hard to say for sure because I'm using it with the HD650 now also, rather than the HD800 than I had when I had the Trafo.  My T3 also has Cinemag OPTs and Mundorf caps.  In that config, I'd say it's probably in the same league.
  
 Likewise I'm curious about the iFi because of the flexibility and features.  The Trafo was also a very versatile amp.  The T3 sounds great, but is strictly an amp, with no extra frills.


----------



## EVOLVIST

Boy, the iCAN Pro really warms up after having it on for several hours with tubes! I take it that the temperature is supposed to be like that?
  
 Well, about two weeks of burning in is the next step. I figured I've waited this long without a listen, so what's two more weeks (336+ hours)?
  
 Would you guys say the best way to burn it in would be with the tube+ state, or alternate between all three?


----------



## Allanmarcus

priaptor said:


> ...  There are those people who want to hear a mouse fart in the corner of a concert hall ...


 
  
 With a truly good amp, you can _smell_ the mouse fart!


----------



## technobear

evolvist said:


> Would you guys say the best way to burn it in would be with the tube+ state, or alternate between all three?




You will need to burn in all three.


----------



## grdlow

evolvist said:


> Well, about two weeks of burning in is the next step. I figured I've waited this long without a listen, so what's two more weeks (336+ hours)?
> 
> Would you guys say the best way to burn it in would be with the tube+ state, or alternate between all three?


leave it playing in tube+ state and check back every now and then


----------



## ptolemy2k6

Hi guys
  
 I was reading the manual and looks like 6d port is a balanced 3.5mm. I don't have any 3.5mm balanced cables but I have a few 2.5mm that I use with onkyo dap. Is there an adapter that does balanced 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female so I can try my IEM's with it?


----------



## Topspin70

grdlow said:


> evolvist said:
> 
> 
> > Well, about two weeks of burning in is the next step. I figured I've waited this long without a listen, so what's two more weeks (336+ hours)?
> ...




What's the life span of those 5670s? Isn't that going to run them down prematurely?


----------



## grdlow

It's stated in the manual that "Each GE5670 tube has undergone a special rejuvenation process and the tube circuit is specially-designed for long life. Combined, the tubes should offer many years of enjoyment."


----------



## EVOLVIST

topspin70 said:


> What's the life span of those 5670s? Isn't that going to run them down prematurely?


 
  
 Well, driver tubes like the GE5670 should have a lifespan of 90,000 hours, give or take, obviously, which means if they were used 24/7 that would equal 3,750 days. That equals to 10 years. But let's say you're only running them 3 hours a day that's 30 years. I'm 42 now, so in theory, I wouldn't need to change my tubes until I'm 72. I might not give a **** at 72, or even 62.
  
 That said, from my understanding, burning in the tubes, themselves, should only take 20 hours at the max! It's the circuits, though, that we're more concerned about in this case. I think taking 400 hours off of the tube's life won't make a bit of difference in the long run.


----------



## Koolpep

ptolemy2k6 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I was reading the manual and looks like 6d port is a balanced 3.5mm. I don't have any 3.5mm balanced cables but I have a few 2.5mm that I use with onkyo dap. Is there an adapter that does balanced 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female so I can try my IEM's with it?




Btg-audio.com made an adapter for me, when I needed 3.5mm balanced to RSA/Alo for my hifiman DAP that also has 3.5mm balanced output. 

So I would propose to contact Brian. 

Cheers.


----------



## gr8soundz

ptolemy2k6 said:


> I don't have any 3.5mm balanced cables but I have a few 2.5mm that I use with onkyo dap. Is there an adapter that does balanced 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female so I can try my IEM's with it?


 
  
 Did you mean 2.5mm female to 3.5mm male (for connection to the Pro which uses a Hifiman style TRRS pinout on that port)?
 If so, this adapter will work:
 http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/onkyo-dp-x-1-astell-kern-ak240-ak120-ii-ak340-eidolic-hifiman-lh-labs-balanced-trrs-4-pole-converter-ultrashort-adapter
  
 I just had Trevor at Norne make a custom one for my 3.5mm TRRS cables (to use with another amp). Superb quality and very short. Worth every penny.
  
 They also have a 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female but that would be for adapting a cable that already fits the iCan Pro to use with your Onkyo.
 http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Audio-Hifiman-TRRS-LH-Labs-go-v-2-astell-and-kern-ak240-ak380-ak120-ak100-ii
  
 Note: these are not just adapters. The pinouts are different for balanced 2.5mm and 3.5mm balanced so these are soldered internally to properly convert the pins.


----------



## ptolemy2k6

gr8soundz said:


> Did you mean 2.5mm female to 3.5mm male (for connection to the Pro which uses a Hifiman style TRRS pinout on that port)?
> If so, this adapter will work:
> http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/onkyo-dp-x-1-astell-kern-ak240-ak120-ii-ak340-eidolic-hifiman-lh-labs-balanced-trrs-4-pole-converter-ultrashort-adapter
> 
> ...


 
 I think it's the first one. I have custom earphione cable that is terminated in 2.5mm trrs for onyko. so that end is male. I would need 3.5mm adapter to take that, so 1 of it's end will be 2.5mm female and output 3.5mm male trrs balanced


----------



## PLUSSOUND

ptolemy2k6 said:


> I think it's the first one. I have custom earphione cable that is terminated in 2.5mm trrs for onyko. so that end is male. I would need 3.5mm adapter to take that, so 1 of it's end will be 2.5mm female and output 3.5mm male trrs balanced


 
 If you are looking for 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRRS adapter, It should look like this:


----------



## Topspin70

evolvist said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > What's the life span of those 5670s? Isn't that going to run them down prematurely?
> ...




I didn't realise these tubes last that long. Some tube experts on the 5670 thread spooked me and I've been real precious with my iTube, turning it off when not listening but hate waiting for it to warm up when I want to use it. All that on and off supposedly reduce its life too so it's ironic. I might leave it permanently on now, until the tube goes flat in 7-8 years, or is that also a bad idea?


----------



## EVOLVIST

topspin70 said:


> I didn't realise these tubes last that long. Some tube experts on the 5670 thread spooked me and I've been real precious with my iTube, turning it off when not listening but hate waiting for it to warm up when I want to use it. All that on and off supposedly reduce its life too so it's ironic. I might leave it permanently on now, until the tube goes flat in 7-8 years, or is that also a bad idea?


 
  
 I don't know. I'll I'm doing is speaking in theory, just by doing simple math. But I don't think turning it off would reduce the tube life. I mean, look at all of those radios from the 30s and 40s, and they would turn them on and off every day. It beats me. I'm just saying that it's probably safe to leave them on for a good while without significantly reducing the tube life.


----------



## Topspin70

evolvist said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't realise these tubes last that long. Some tube experts on the 5670 thread spooked me and I've been real precious with my iTube, turning it off when not listening but hate waiting for it to warm up when I want to use it. All that on and off supposedly reduce its life too so it's ironic. I might leave it permanently on now, until the tube goes flat in 7-8 years, or is that also a bad idea?
> ...




What you said made sense so I'm gonna go with common sense logic. Sometimes this OCD-prone hobby of ours throws basic reasoning out the window.


----------



## gr8soundz

topspin70 said:


> I didn't realise these tubes last that long. Some tube experts on the 5670 thread spooked me and I've been real precious with my iTube, turning it off when not listening but hate waiting for it to warm up when I want to use it. All that on and off supposedly reduce its life too so it's ironic. I might leave it permanently on now, until the tube goes flat in 7-8 years, or is that also a bad idea?


 
  
 I'd be more worried about the constant heat from being on 24/7. My iTube has a single 5670 and the whole enclosure gets pretty hot. Besides, seems to hit it's stride after about 20min warm-up.


----------



## Topspin70

gr8soundz said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't realise these tubes last that long. Some tube experts on the 5670 thread spooked me and I've been real precious with my iTube, turning it off when not listening but hate waiting for it to warm up when I want to use it. All that on and off supposedly reduce its life too so it's ironic. I might leave it permanently on now, until the tube goes flat in 7-8 years, or is that also a bad idea?
> ...




Good point. I measured with an IR and it's up to 40C. Wasn't too bothered as I once had stereo amps that could fry an egg on. This seems manageable. Now the hit on my electricity bill and the subsequent strangling from my Wife, that's could be a concern.


----------



## iFi audio

Technical Notes series  

  
*Introduction*
 The “Pro series” is the flagship of the iFi range. It is an advanced, ‘one-of-a-kind’ design to perfectly suit both the professional audio and home audio sectors.
  
 With 14,000mW output power and a vast range of adjustments, the Pro iCAN is a state-of-the-art component that drives _ALL_headphones, even electrostatic headphones like STAX (with the special external ESL module).
  
 Here is some insight into the technologies used in the Pro iCAN which is packed with trickle-down technology from AMR.
  
Contents:
*Tech Note 1: When Balanced is NOT Balanced*

Typical unbalanced ‘Balanced’ headphone amplifier
 
True ‘Balanced’ Pro iCAN
The ‘Balanced’ connection _[tech note on the balanced connectors]_


----------



## iFi audio

*Tech Note 1:* *True Differential Balanced**®* At the upper end of the headphone amplifier market, despite the best protestations of  ‘balanced’ things are not always what they seem. This is a curious case of ‘*Is balance balanced*_?’_
  
 For headphones, it DOES make good design sense to implement a balanced topology (the possibility of higher power, increase dynamic range and lower noise etc.) It goes without saying that the balanced design should be balanced all the way through, ‘end-to-end.’
  
  

  
  
*1. The typical not-so ‘Balanced’ headphone amplifier*  
*Input/Output:           Balanced*
*Internal Circuitry:    Single-Ended*
  
 The majority of ‘balanced’ high-ended headphone amplifiers are actually _single-ended amplifiers with balanced inputs and outputs_. The balanced input will be converted into single-ended operation inside the amplifier, then converted back to balanced just before the output:
  
 The following block diagram depicts the balanced input through to the amplifier (orange) which afterwards, reverts to single-ended and runs through many single-ended stages before then going to the balanced outputs.
  

  
  
*In detail*: The balanced input signal will first be converted into single-ended operation by extra circuitry added to the single-ended signal path. The volume control and actual headphone amplifier are formed by a pure, single-ended circuit.
  
 To provide balanced drive to the headphone, the signal is inverted using more circuitry added to the single-ended audio path.
  
_A sure fire giveaway of such circuitry is the use of a 2-Deck volume control (c.f. 4-Deck for true balanced circuitry), as well as having more than four gain/current buffer blocks among two channels._
  
 At the input, the additional balanced to single-ended conversion circuit generates extra noise on top of the volume control pot.
  
 At the output, the inverter circuit used to create the balanced signal simply doubles the signal, noise and distortion of the amplifier, nothing is reduced or cancelled, only added. So one gets double the signal but also double the noise and distortion.
  
 Hence this is truly a case where MORE IS LESS. There is much more circuitry, but far lesser performance, both objectively and subjectively.
  
  *2. True Differential Balanced® - Pro iCAN*  
*Input/Output:           Balanced*
*Internal Circuitry:    Balanced*
  
 The Pro iCAN however, is true balanced end-to-end, from the input all the way through to the outputs. It operates with full-differential internal signaling, meaning the signal is always remains two separate signals of equal level but opposite polarity. This is what we call *True Differential Balanced®*.
  

  
  
 In detail: The Pro iCAN circuit is fully-balanced with completely equal circuit sections for Positive (Hot) and Negative (Cold) signal phase of each channel. The Volume control has 6-Decks, two decks each control the volume of one channel, and the other two decks are used for monitoring the volume control operation. This exceptional volume control potentiometer is custom made for iFi by ALPS Japan and has no parallel from other makers.
  
 But, as the two halves of the volume control and the two halves of the amplification operate differentially, they effectively become a single stage. So the circuitry is highly elaborate in actual implementation, yet it comes down to the simplest design possible for a headphone amplifier, that is a volume control, a gain stage and a current buffer*.
  
 Compared to a single-ended design with exactly the same circuit, True Differential Balanced® lowers noise by 3dB and also lowers THD dramatically over the. Additionally, it allows the signal level to be doubled, so True Differential Balanced® circuitry also produces 9dB (or 3 times) greater dynamic range.
  
_Note:_
_In professional audio, ‘Balanced Amplifier’ only means the Input/Output connections are balanced, the internal circuits are actually single-ended (if the internal circuit is also balanced, it will be called d__ifferential).  _
  
_But in the Hi Fi world, most people view a ‘Balanced Amplifier’ as balanced all the way, from end-to-end, and incorrectly assume even the internal circuits are balanced._


----------



## SuperDuke

I have my iCan Pro burning in now.  I was surprised that it fits perfectly atop my Grace Design m920 (using as DAC).  They are the same footprint. Never thought I'd have a piece of gear small enough to put on top of the Grace.
  
 I've not had enough time w/ the ican Pro to give much in the way of impressions except to say it really has no problem driving the HE-6.  I was skeptical after reading the claims but it's true- w/ the gain on +9db I never go above 12 O'clock on the volume pot and am usually around 10 or 11 O' clock (running balanced all the way).
  
 I hear a difference w/ the X Bass but prefer it off.  I can tell the tube and tube+ are something special and am already contemplating the 396A / 2C51 tubes. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that tube can be used w/o adaptor????


----------



## SuperDuke

I received an email from iFi that the WE396A /2C51 will work in the Pro w/o an adaptor.  Downside is they also said replacing the tubes will void the warranty.  I can see their point since the case has to be opened to roll in new tubes  - just a bummer


----------



## EVOLVIST

superduke said:


> I received an email from iFi that the WE396A /2C51 will work in the Pro w/o an adaptor.  Downside is they also said replacing the tubes will void the warranty.  I can see their point since the case has to be opened to roll in new tubes  - just a bummer




Why would y'all want to tube roll this, anyway? The GE5670 is like the unflubbiest tube while imparting real warmth to the audio. I was a big 6922 lover until I heard these little guys. Plus, they've been rejuvinated as matched pairs.


----------



## SuperDuke

Agreed.  I just have a good memory of my old Single power extreme w/ WE396A driver tube that made such a  difference.  The 5670s are excellent and I think I'll stay put until the warranty runs out.  Why do people roll tubes?  Maybe just b/c it's fun and an audiophile addiction...


----------



## EVOLVIST

superduke said:


> Agreed.  I just have a good memory of my old Single power extreme w/ WE396A driver tube that made such a  difference.  The 5670s are excellent and I think I'll stay put until the warranty runs out.  Why do people roll tubes?  Maybe just b/c it's fun and an audiophile addiction...


 
  
 Oh, I get the love of rolling tubes! I used to do it, too, back before I discovered I was more of a SS guy, with only sometimes needing tubes (depending on the music). I was just asking about the need to roll _these_ tubes, not tube rolling in general.
  
 But like I said, I'm a big fan of the 6922, so these iFi stock tubes are perfect for me; therefore, I might not be the best judge of any other tubes to satisfy that itch. That's just a happy coincidence that iFi stocks their gear with the same tubes that I dig.
  
 I'm kind of glad I'm out of the tube rolling game, though, because that was getting expensive!


----------



## iFi audio

_*NativeDSD's 20% discount on the previous Quad DSD tracks - Album version!*

 The overwhelming wave of feedback about this first ever Quad DSD (256fs) Sampler Album included many compliments about the choice of tracks! The percussion ensemble on track 1, the voice/guitar jazz duo on track 2, the baroque solo cellist on track 3 and the classical pianist on track 4... Well, guess what? _

*Those 4 Quad DSD albums *on which those 4 tracks can be found are now available with a *20% discount!*

Once *any or all album(s) *are in your cart, apply the *coupon code: *4xQUAD


_** Valid through June 30th, on the Quad DSD (256fs) downloads ** __Any DSD 256fs purchase generates the free option to download the Double DSD (128fs) and DSD (64fs) versions as well!_


*1). Smoke & Mirrors - Vanish*

by: Yarlung Records (YAR15195)
https://yarlungrecords.nativedsd.com/albums/smoke-mirrors-vanish


  


*2). 8 Ensembles in 1 Bit*
by: Just Listen (JL002)
https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/jl0028-ensembles-in-1-bit
  

  

*3). Bach Cello Suites (Vol. 1)*
by: Navis Classics (NC15003)
https://navisclassics.nativedsd.com/albums/NC15003-bach-cello-suites-vol-1


  

*4). Dialogue (Mozart & Chopin)*
by: Eudora Records (EUDDR1402)
https://eudora.nativedsd.com/albums/mozart-chopin-dialogue


----------



## EVOLVIST

It's so quiet in here. My amp only has two more days to burn in, then it's on to listening with gusto! 

Any more tech talk, iFi?


----------



## MaceHane2

Hi,
I'd like to ask a question both of iFi and of any folks here who are currently using the iCan Pro.
I recently bought a Sennheiser HD800s, and also own a Nighthawk and a T5p2, but I never got to use the HD800 until I also got my amp/dac, which was the new Queststyle 600i.
I actually wanted to go for the iCan Pro but it's price (and still needing a dac to use with it) decided on the Queststyle for me, especially as it's a self-contained fully balanced amp and dac in the same chassis.
However, as soon as I started using it there was a problem. Once or twice in any given song (especially noticeable in quieter music) there would be one, sometime two times, when there would be a tiny 'glitch' sound that I would hear over the music. Remember when playing vinyl one might hear the odd bit of noise or click or whatnot? That is what this was like. I could never get through one track without hearing it once or twice.
The supplier suggested several things - different usb cable from unit to Mac; use different usb port; use different playback software (I tried iTunes, Pure Music and aurdivarna) .... And more besides. Nothing, no change.

I Sent the unit back and they could not hear it. At which point they thought it was likely a result of my Mac using El Capitan, which apparently has given lots of folks out there issues with audio playback? When using all the same equipment and 'phones with my dragonfly red (via dragon tail to Mac) I did not once hear these 'glitches'

Here is my problem: I am not about to go change my set-up. I am not leaving Macs. I cannot (and do not want to) revert to an earlier operating system.

So ....... Firstly - do any of you out there with either the iCan Pro (or other equipment) using Macs on El Capitan experience these 'issues'?

Secondly, to iFi - do you know of this, or are aware of this possible issue and have you tested the iCan Pro on Macs using current build operating system?

The supplier I bought the Queststyle from was exceedingly helpful for which i am very grateful as I am now getting a refund, but he also said that if I now go and purchase the iCan Pro I will have the same problem.
I really do not want to scrape together the extra £500 for the iFi (plus whatever for a dac!), and then find myself in a pickle, trying to once again see if I can get a refund.

I would hugely appreciate any advice that head-fiers, and especially iFi, could give me on this matter.

Many thanks.

P.s. To iFi - if you respond: if I went for the iCan Pro it would use my entire budget and the only way I could get a dac would be to try and sell a few books and go for an inexpensive dac, at least for the next year or so. Would you have any recommendations for an inexpensive dac that would not simply waste the potentiality of the iCan Pro, but which would at least give me a portion of its performance that would be worthwhile. I am assuming that the dragonfly red might not be adequate? I would probably be able to stretch in the immediate term up to around £300 for a dac if I sold my few remaining collectable books.

Thank you, and one and all - be well.


----------



## Allanmarcus

macehane2 said:


> Hi,
> I'd like to ask a question both of iFi and of any folks here who are currently using the iCan Pro.
> I recently bought a Sennheiser HD800s, and also own a Nighthawk and a T5p2, but I never got to use the HD800 until I also got my amp/dac, which was the new Queststyle 600i.
> I actually wanted to go for the iCan Pro but it's price (and still needing a dac to use with it) decided on the Queststyle for me, especially as it's a self-contained fully balanced amp and dac in the same chassis.
> ...




The ican pro is an amp, so the OS of the computer is not relevant. The DAC is the only interface to the computer. 

Try a Schiit wyrd or Amber regen or an optical connection.


----------



## grdlow

macehane2 said:


> Hi,
> I'd like to ask a question both of iFi and of any folks here who are currently using the iCan Pro.
> I recently bought a Sennheiser HD800s, and also own a Nighthawk and a T5p2, but I never got to use the HD800 until I also got my amp/dac, which was the new Queststyle 600i.
> I actually wanted to go for the iCan Pro but it's price (and still needing a dac to use with it) decided on the Queststyle for me, especially as it's a self-contained fully balanced amp and dac in the same chassis.
> ...


It's likely the DAC section of your Questyle that is the problem, because it's fine when you use another DAC, i.e the Dragonfly Red. You could check out the iDAC2 if you're looking for another DAC.


----------



## grizzlybeast

So I must not be so skeptical of power supply and such.
  
 I have this loaner iFi Ican SE and it punches WAYYYYY above its price in performance. This little thing is kind of embarrassing my Nuprime HPA-9 with better transient response, snappiness and separation. That amp itself was preferred to the Airist Heron 5. After hearing this little sucker plugged into my PAVANE I have the goal of the Ican Pro now and really have no worries as to its performance. If iFi can make my HE-5LE sing like this with just a meager little amp then I can only imagine what the Pro can do. 
  
@nmatheis Where is the official iFi iCan SE thread so I can post impressions appropriately? I searched and couldn't find it.


----------



## Topspin70

grizzlybeast said:


> So I must not be so skeptical of power supply and such.
> 
> I have this loaner iFi Ican SE and it punches WAYYYYY above its price in performance. This little thing is kind of embarrassing my Nuprime HPA-9 with better transient response, snappiness and separation. That amp itself was preferred to the Airist Heron 5. After hearing this little sucker plugged into my PAVANE I have the goal of the Ican Pro now and really have no worries as to its performance. If iFi can make my HE-5LE sing like this with just a meager little amp then I can only imagine what the Pro can do.
> 
> @nmatheis Where is the official iFi iCan SE thread so I can post impressions appropriately? I searched and couldn't find it.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/790869/ican-micro-se-thanks-to-meze-you-guys-are-great-things-are-a-rockin

Wait till you hear it with the iTube.


----------



## Allanmarcus

grizzlybeast said:


> So I must not be so skeptical of power supply and such.
> 
> I have this loaner iFi Ican SE and it punches WAYYYYY above its price in performance. This little thing is kind of embarrassing my Nuprime HPA-9 with better transient response, snappiness and separation. That amp itself was preferred to the Airist Heron 5. After hearing this little sucker plugged into my PAVANE I have the goal of the Ican Pro now and really have no worries as to its performance. If iFi can make my HE-5LE sing like this with just a meager little amp then I can only imagine what the Pro can do.
> 
> ...




I wonder how it will sound with the utopia!


----------



## Topspin70

allanmarcus said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > So I must not be so skeptical of power supply and such.
> ...




Summit fi x 2. Unimaginable.


----------



## grdlow

topspin70 said:


> Summit fi x 2. Unimaginable.


The Yggdrasil with the iCan Pro and HD800S are making magic together


----------



## Topspin70

Think the Focal Utopia aims to surpass the HD800S HE1K etc. Big goal with a big price tag. 

http://www.cnet.com/news/could-this-be-the-worlds-best-headphone/


----------



## EVOLVIST

grizzlybeast said:


> So I must not be so skeptical of power supply and such.
> 
> I have this loaner iFi Ican SE and it punches WAYYYYY above its price in performance. This little thing is kind of embarrassing my Nuprime HPA-9 with better transient response, snappiness and separation. That amp itself was preferred to the Airist Heron 5. After hearing this little sucker plugged into my PAVANE I have the goal of the Ican Pro now and really have no worries as to its performance. If iFi can make my HE-5LE sing like this with just a meager little amp then I can only imagine what the Pro can do.
> 
> ...




I've heard them both. I have the iCAN Pro, and it simply kills the the SE. 

I'm going to write an official review for the iCAN Pro, but as of right now I can say that it really is a Jack of all trades, master of all.

My only caveat is that I'm in for the iDSD Pro, and that's the one that I've been waiting for since I first heard of the Pro models...way more than the iCAN Pro. So, if the iDSD Pro has the exact same SS, Tube and Tube+, feeding any amp?...Wow!


----------



## canali

interesting.....well i _could _sell my ifi imicro idsd and newly tweaked mad ear+hd
 to raise funds for this baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...but would still need a good dac.
 for cans I have the senn hd650


----------



## Greggo

Anyone hear anything about the ESL module? The price, form factor (pics???) and any listening impressions will all be of very great interest...
  
 Also curious if those of you with the iCan Pro are intending to get the iDSD Pro when it comes out as well? Has there been a shared target price point for that as of yet?


----------



## EVOLVIST

greggo said:


> Anyone hear anything about the ESL module? The price, form factor (pics???) and any listening impressions will all be of very great interest...
> 
> Also curious if those of you with the iCan Pro are intending to get the iDSD Pro when it comes out as well? Has there been a shared target price point for that as of yet?


 
  
 I don't know about the ESL module, but even though I have the iCAN Pro right now, my true plan, all along, was for the iDSD Pro. I believe it's going to be a game changer, even above the Yggy. The last I heard we are looking at the iDSD Pro somewhere in the $2000 USD range, maybe less.


----------



## Allanmarcus

evolvist said:


> greggo said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone hear anything about the ESL module? The price, form factor (pics???) and any listening impressions will all be of very great interest...
> ...


 

 Sorry, but how could it possibly be a game changes. At best, it will be a better DAC with XBass and 3D sound, possibly MQA. MQA technology is a game changer. What is expected in the pro iDSD that would be a game changer? Yggy performance at half the cost?


----------



## Greggo

evolvist said:


> I don't know about the ESL module, but even though I have the iCAN Pro right now, my true plan, all along, was for the iDSD Pro. I believe it's going to be a game changer, even above the Yggy. The last I heard we are looking at the iDSD Pro somewhere in the $2000 USD range, maybe less.


 
  
 Thank you. If the iDSD can hang with the Yggy and the feedback on the iCAN continues to point to a really high performance piece of kit, this will be a very attractive combo. I have a growing interest in estats so the ESL module would be frosting on the cake.


----------



## technobear

allanmarcus said:


> evolvist said:
> 
> 
> > greggo said:
> ...




As far as I am aware, the iDSD Pro will not have XBASS or 3D.

For that you will have to add the iCAN Pro.


----------



## gr8soundz

technobear said:


> As far as I am aware, the iDSD Pro will not have XBASS or 3D.
> 
> For that you will have to add the iCAN Pro.


 
  
 True. IFi confirmed that a while back.
  
 Wish the iDSD Pro would at least keep the basics of the Micro series intact.
  
 Too bad iFi didn't put a dac inside the iCan Pro. They could corner the desktop hi-fi market with something like that (the Retro 50 was a great move but no balanced outputs and not having the ss/tube/tube+ of the Pro limits its appeal).


----------



## EVOLVIST

allanmarcus said:


> Sorry, but how could it possibly be a game changes. At best, it will be a better DAC with XBass and 3D sound, possibly MQA. MQA technology is a game changer. What is expected in the pro iDSD that would be a game changer? Yggy performance at half the cost?


 
  
 read.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread/1110#post_12518695


----------



## Allanmarcus

evolvist said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but how could it possibly be a game changes. At best, it will be a better DAC with XBass and 3D sound, possibly MQA. MQA technology is a game changer. What is expected in the pro iDSD that would be a game changer? Yggy performance at half the cost?
> ...


 

 OK, so you are referring to the sort of hybrid SD/R2R chip?


----------



## EVOLVIST

allanmarcus said:


> OK, so you are referring to the sort of hybrid SD/R2R chip?




The implementation of the BB chips, yes, from my understanding, which is why I let iFi speak for themselves in the links. Moreover, I'm not sure what new technology that iFi is implementing, but they've alluded to it, which is why it's taken longer than expected to hit the market. Could it be MQA? I don't know.

The fact is, to me anyway, the iDSD micro has gone head to head with much more expensive DACs, and this is what I have in my rig now, having tested many. I mean, I owe it to myself to try iFi's flagship. I would be a fool not to.


----------



## KaspianXL

If anyone has had an opportunity to use the iCan Pro as a line stage preamp, I'd be very interested to hear any impressions. I can't think of any other balanced tube preamp in this price range, and the features list is bonkers. I can only imagine that the sound quality will be superb as well.


----------



## EVOLVIST

kaspianxl said:


> If anyone has had an opportunity to use the iCan Pro as a line stage preamp, I'd be very interested to hear any impressions. I can't think of any other balanced tube preamp in this price range, and the features list is bonkers. I can only imagine that the sound quality will be superb as well.


 
  
 It's funny that you mention that, because that's exactly what I did last Sunday. My DAC fed the iCAN Pro, while the iCAN Pro fed my Auditor, then through my headphones. Frankly, it didn't lose much of the iCAN sound; again the Tube+ was righteous. I had set the Auditor on unity gain and operated the volume by means of the iCAN Pro. I thought it was a good combo, just not as good as the iCAN Pro by itself, which was livelier.
  
 Of course it all depends on what amp you mate it with, but it didn't lose its fun factor from in the listening experience.
  
 Obviously a person is better off going balanced headphones straight to the iCAN Pro. That's what really makes your can talk: that's 147db(A) dynamic range.


----------



## KaspianXL

evolvist said:


> It's funny that you mention that, because that's exactly what I did last Sunday. My DAC fed the iCAN Pro, while the iCAN Pro fed my Auditor, then through my headphones. Frankly, it didn't lose much of the iCAN sound; again the Tube+ was righteous. I had set the Auditor on unity gain and operated the volume by means of the iCAN Pro. I thought it was a good combo, just not as good as the iCAN Pro by itself, which was livelier.
> 
> Of course it all depends on what amp you mate it with, but it didn't lose its fun factor from in the listening experience.
> 
> Obviously a person is better off going balanced headphones straight to the iCAN Pro. That's what really makes your can talk: that's 147db(A) dynamic range.




Thanks for your impressions, EVOLVIST. I am particularly interested in using the iCAN Pro as a preamp in the context of a speaker rig. For headphones I would almost certainly just use the iCAN's built-in amp, as you suggest.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I already have a tube amp but would like a solid state and am trying to decide between the M9, Rag, and this.
  
 I am leaning toward the M9 because though I think I would prefer the Rags layering abilities the single ended socket is worthless. Plus I already have a tube amp that is here to stay. In a couple of months I will be ready so I am researching the heck out of gear everyday. So far the Master 9 is winning. 
  
 I really want an official review from some noteworthy folks. When you launch a product its best to get it into the hands of someone who can post decent and detailed impressions of its sound. The only one I have read about this doesn't get much into its sound or provide any decent point of reference. Actually  it was a pretty worthless review in my opinion.


----------



## Koolpep

grizzlybeast said:


> I already have a tube amp but would like a solid state and am trying to decide between the M9, Rag, and this.
> 
> I am leaning toward the M9 because though I think I would prefer the Rags layering abilities the single ended socket is worthless. Plus I already have a tube amp that is here to stay. In a couple of months I will be ready so I am researching the heck out of gear everyday. So far the Master 9 is winning.
> 
> I really want an official review from some noteworthy folks. When you launch a product its best to get it into the hands of someone who can post decent and detailed impressions of its sound. The only one I have read about this doesn't get much into its sound or provide any decent point of reference. Actually  it was a pretty worthless review in my opinion.


 
  
 Guess you are referring to my review. Thanks for the flowers  I wrote in this review what I feel comfortable sharing with others. Let me explain why I didn't go into details about sound description in my review:
  
 ifi didn't give it to me to review - I happened to know a distributor who sells it and I borrowed the demo unit from him to listen to it for my own pleasure - I am not a professional reviewer, I don't get paid and don't get free stuff from ifi or the distributor and I only write reviews about stuff I really like. I happen to have really like a lot of ifi products.
  
 My reference points are: Burson Conductor, Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon, Bottlehead Crack, iDSD micro, iDSD Nano, various DAPs and other stuff in my profile.
  
 In which setting would you want to have a comparison?
  
 solid state mode, tube mode, hybrid mode? (3) 
 output balanced or single ended? (2)
 with which headphone? (unlimited)
 with which of the 3D (4)
 or XBass settings (4)
 with which gain settings (3)
 balanced input or RCA/single ended (2)
  
 = 576 combinations that all affect the sound to a certain extend.
  
 Am sorry but I decided that I am not going too much into the sound description with flowery explanations about this amp. I leave this to other reviewers that have a better command over the English language than I have and have better terminology to describe the sound they hear. There are too many variables for me to deal with and as mentioned, I might lack the right vocabulary in any case. Having said that, this amp can be the cleanest, flattest, amp with a precision, I find simply breathtaking, with blackness that sucks you into a black hole or a musical and emotional one that is not as precise but coherent and "wholesome", with the most engaging sound and body to it. It also depends which headphones you use, some work better in the solid state mode (Hifiman), some work wonders in the tube mode (Audeze), some  better in hybrid mode (Sennheiser). It can have a normal soundstage or a terrific enhanced one. It can do so much, since it's so customizable with it's switches. 
  
 And as you know - tube amps can change quite dramatically depending on the tubes you use, so even if I compare to the Bottlehead Crack - it means nothing if you don't use the exact same tubes like I do.
  
 So - I simply gave up - this amp can do it all - I heard the Ragnarok and liked it a lot, I heard Master 9 but not long enough to allow a proper comparison and I didn't A/B with of these with the Pro iCan. I spend some time with a WA-5LE and to be honest: I would go with the Pro iCan just because you can tune it to make your headphones sound amazing. And I would not miss a thing (compared to the others mentioned) in my opinion and to my ears.
  
 Every headphone I own and that I tried on this amp sounded better than with the amps I have. The LCD-2 for example - never sounded that good before. I was floored. 
  
 That thing is the real deal. For its price - its unbeatable. I don't have one yet, hope to get one this year. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## grizzlybeast

koolpep said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > I already have a tube amp but would like a solid state and am trying to decide between the M9, Rag, and this.
> ...


 
 I get it. Not to be hyper critical but I find this post even more informative to a certain extent and appreciate you not giving much of an attitude in defending yourself. Thanks for the response. 
  
 You got a lot of likes from that review so it may have helped others. I simply want to see such a beast bench marked against another high end piece of gear. I wanted a review unit but since I do not have as many headphones ( sold  a lot of them to purchase my Pavane) I don't feel up for the task. My goal is to have another headphone amp that can compete with TOTL solid state amps but I am a bit apprehensive. I may crumble under the curiosity though and end up with one.


----------



## Koolpep

grizzlybeast said:


> I get it. Not to be hyper critical but I find this post even more informative to a certain extent and appreciate you not giving much of an attitude in defending yourself. Thanks for the response.
> 
> You got a lot of likes from that review so it may have helped others. I simply want to see such a beast bench marked against another high end piece of gear. I wanted a review unit but since I do not have as many headphones ( sold  a lot of them to purchase my Pavane) I don't feel up for the task. My goal is to have another headphone amp that can compete with TOTL solid state amps but I am a bit apprehensive. I may crumble under the curiosity though and end up with one.




Cheers!!!

Yes, I understand your need and I would love to help, but simply can't as I haven't done a comparison or benchmark - I listened exclusively to that thing for about a week and loved every minute of it. Wanted to try as many headphones with it as possible and as you can see, I don't have any of the other totl amps so naturally my opinion wouldn't help that much in any case as I don't trust my auditory memory that much over a long period of time. 

I don't think you would regret the purchase.  though it looks less impressive than a master 9 or Rag.

Cheers.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

grizzlybeast Hey I'm set to review the Pro iCan for The Headphone List, I'll be comparing it to the Taurus Mk.2, Herron 5, Liquid Carbon and MicroZOTL 2. Though I am absolutely convinced that Koolpep's command of the English Language is superior to mine, I'll attempt to provide you with the comparisons you seek.


----------



## grizzlybeast

wildcatsare1 said:


> grizzlybeast Hey I'm set to review the Pro iCan for The Headphone List, I'll be comparing it to the Taurus Mk.2, Herron 5, Liquid Carbon and MicroZOTL 2. Though I am absolutely convinced that Koolpep's command of the English Language is superior to mine, I'll attempt to provide you with the comparisons you seek.



Great! 

When will I see it?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

grizzlybeast said:


> Great!
> 
> When will I see it?




I'm doing the MZ2 now, then IFi, followed by the American CIEM shootout, so probably August/September, but it's arriving Saturday so I'm more than happy to provide impressions via PM or phone call.


----------



## grizzlybeast

wildcatsare1 said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > Great!
> ...



Heck yeah... PM me with some first impressions when you're ready!!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Will do @grizzlybeast.


----------



## kj510

I recently bought Pro iCan for mainly a Pre-amp use.
 I used to use Khozmo passive preamp but it started to create a big noise when changing volume levels. I was fine with the sound but had to replace it as it might damage speakers or power amp in the future.
  
 I started to use Pro iCan only 3 days ago and seems need more time to evaluate.  However, it is already making a pleasant sound. I am using a tube mode. For my system, Tube+ made the balance of sound to too much bass. Tube is just good for me now.
  
 Since I changed,  needless to say it made more tube sound than passive one. More Bass and Mid than before but they are clear. So far, I am happy with my purchase.
  
 My power amp is MC275 IV and DAC is Weiss DAC2 using a balanced connections.
  
 I found the remote make very little change in the level, you need to click many times to move it many levels. Also, it becomes very hot even for a pre-amp use.


----------



## Rob N

Your remote isn't working correctly,mine was the same and Ifi swapped it for one that worked normally


----------



## kj510

Thanks for telling me. I have to click more than 100 times to move volume from 0 to 12 o'clock position....
  
 I contacted my dealer and they asked me to return a whole set to check it.... It sucks!! ....I wished to receive only the remote....
 But I will send back anyway. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> I found the remote make very little change in the level, you need to click many times to move it many levels. Also, it becomes very hot even for a pre-amp use.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Normally, you should just need to hold the up or down on the remote and after a second or two the volume will move rapidly.
  
 Open an STS and we can work through with you or send out a remote if need be (in case).
  
 It is by the way, the same remote as Stereo 50.
  
  
 Yes - the heat is normal as it has 2 x GE5670s running Class A. Like the AMR products, the whole chassis is the heatsink.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## kj510

Thanks for your reply. I rang the distributor in Japan and told the situation.
 They also said by keep pressing the button would move the volume knob but mine doesn't act this way. It only moves the knob one click distance. And they sad it is not not normal but an initial defect.
  
 However, the shop I purchased asked me to send back a whole package and replace it to a new one which is good except all the work I need to disconnect and connect the preamp.
  
 I liked the sound of Pro iCan so I am happy about it. I understand it is working Class A which is making the heat and fine about it, just was much warmer than I thought. But it is not a issue.


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I rang the distributor in Japan and told the situation.
> They also said by keep pressing the button would move the volume knob but mine doesn't act this way. It only moves the knob one click distance. And they sad it is not not normal but an initial defect.
> 
> However, the shop I purchased asked me to send back a whole package and replace it to a new one which is good except all the work I need to disconnect and connect the preamp.
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Hard to trouble shoot through public forum. STS is always best as we can email through information etc and keep your info private.
  
 But if one holds the remote control button down and it does not go up 'fast' in a smooth, linear way, check the battery as a poor battery can cause the remote to keep 're-setting' and this causes the volume to go up 'one step at a time.'
  
 So far, we have come across one other case in the UK where the remote came back and the battery was the culprit.
  
 Hope this sheds more light.


----------



## kj510

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Hard to trouble shoot through public forum. STS is always best as we can email through information etc and keep your info private.
> 
> ...


 
 What is STS?
  
 The battery is the new one in the package which had a plastic sheet to prevent draining. I don't have a spare battery to test... Also, one click moves so small amount of level. Needs more than 100 times to move 0 to 12 O'clock.
  
 However, I will send back the whole package to the shop as they will take care of the issue and solve it for me also, I am too busy to troubleshoot by myself.


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> What is STS?
> 
> The battery is the new one in the package which had a plastic sheet to prevent draining. I don't have a spare battery to test... Also, one click moves so small amount of level. Needs more than 100 times to move 0 to 12 O'clock.
> 
> However, I will send back the whole package to the shop as they will take care of the issue and solve it for me also, I am too busy to troubleshoot by myself.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 STS is this:
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
 One click = move one step (this is normal)
  
 Hold down = multiple steps, fast movement (should be smooth action, but if 'lagged' then battery is likely culprit)
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Rob N

ifi audio said:


> So far, we have come across one other case in the UK where the remote came back and the battery was the culprit.




Was that one mine because I did try another battery before returning it


----------



## kj510

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> STS is this:
> 
> ...


 
 I sent back the whole package to the shop I bought for verification and I just received a call from the shop that he could not see the issue I had at home....
 They said the remote works as you explained. Holding button moves the volume knob and it take about 12 clicks to reach 12 O'clock position from 0.
  
 They said they did not change the battery too. I don't understand what's the hell happening? I can only think we did disconnect and connect AC power adapter and moved 500 km away to the shop from my place...  Is there any possibility that power disconnection has reset the volume remote in the amp technically? Or wrong power polarity could affect? (as Japan uses US type connector without earth pin the polarity might have been wrong...)
  
 They will ship it today and I will receive it tomorrow morning and check if it works as expected at my place.


----------



## rickyleelee

how far away is the remote from the detector? does it still work if you point straight at it from one or two feet away? basic info but you tried these trouble shootings yourselve?


----------



## kj510

rickyleelee said:


> how far away is the remote from the detector? does it still work if you point straight at it from one or two feet away? basic info but you tried these trouble shootings yourselve?


 
 I pointed the remote just 10cm or even closer in front of the receiver. I will receive it back soon and will test if it works.


----------



## Kenny Powers

Has anyone used this amp with with the LCD3's? Any impressions?


----------



## kj510

kj510 said:


> I pointed the remote just 10cm or even closer in front of the receiver. I will receive it back soon and will test if it works.


 
 I just received it and checked it is working as expected. Don't know why it is fixed but I am happy as it is playing a good music now.


----------



## rickyleelee

kj510 said:


> I just received it and checked it is working as expected. Don't know why it is fixed but I am happy as it is playing a good music now.




Good to hear update of progress. Most importantly how's does it sound and what headphones you using.


----------



## TonyRoma

Would this amp be an upgrade over A bryston BHA-1 ?, it does look interesting


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kenny powers said:


> Has anyone used this amp with with the LCD3's? Any impressions?




My early impressions with the LCD-3f (2016 Vintage) are very posative. More to come in my upcoming review.


----------



## tesox

Hi,
  
 my ican pro arrived today and I have the same problem with the remote. I followed this thread for a while and so i had a fresh battery on hand,
 but it doesn't help. It doesn't matter how long I press the button, the volume pot always moves just a little (below 1 mm).
 This is definitlely no exeption anymore.
 Seems to be a regular problem with this early batch. I don't want to send the amp back and hope ifi
 will solve this problem by just sending me a working remote.
  
 btw... I have a universal remote that I use for some other devices. Is it possible to get detailed infomations
 about the used IR code? Would be great if a could get my universal remote working with the ican pro.


----------



## kj510

tesox said:


> Hi,
> 
> my ican pro arrived today and I have the same problem with the remote. I followed this thread for a while and so i had a fresh battery on hand,
> but it doesn't help. It doesn't matter how long I press the button, the volume pot always moves just a little (below 1 mm).
> ...


 
 I understand that you just want the remote replaced which I really wanted when it happened to me. I don't know it works in Germany for this kind of initial failure but contact the right person in charge to solve it. It might be worth trying disconnecting AC adaptor for a while which might have been a solution for my case.
  
 I use a universal remote too which can learn by catching the iFi remote to it to learn. For this remote, if the knob moves as much as you keep pressing the remote button so I made several cases to move it much and less.


----------



## kj510

Hi iFi audio,
  
 I have a question about iPurifier DC. Does it fit and OK to use for Pro iCAN in terms of the current limit 3.5A?
 As Pro iCAN's AC adapter is 4A so just wanted to double check technically.
  
 Also, it there any benefit for Pro iCAN's AC adaptor as it is already very low noise as I saw some article on Web.
 I am interested in using iPurifier DC to Pro iCAN but want to know the benefit to use it from your view.
  
 Thank you,


----------



## technobear

kj510 said:


> Hi iFi audio,
> 
> I have a question about iPurifier DC. Does it fit and OK to use for Pro iCAN in terms of the current limit 3.5A?
> As Pro iCAN's AC adapter is 4A so just wanted to double check technically.
> ...




The iPurifier DC is meant for use with other manufacturers products that come with noisy wall-wart power supplies. It is superfluous with an iFi iPower or even the older iFi ULN.


----------



## tesox

I posted this before in the other ifi pro thread, but it just matches here...
 ifi included an adaptor if you like to use your own high quality power cable to feed the iPower Plus power supply:
 I installed it today. Do you think this is a bit over the top ???


----------



## kj510

Did the cable change improved the sound for iFi adapter/Pro iCAN?
 I just wanted to hear your impression.
  
  
 Quote:


tesox said:


> I posted this before in the other ifi pro thread, but it just matches here...
> ifi included an adaptor if you like to use your own high quality power cable to feed the iPower Plus power supply:
> I installed it today. Do you think this is a bit over the top ???


----------



## kj510

technobear said:


> The iPurifier DC is meant for use with other manufacturers products that come with noisy wall-wart power supplies. It is superfluous with an iFi iPower or even the older iFi ULN.


 
 Thanks for your reply!


----------



## tesox

I could not say that it changed the sound. The Pro is still burning in, so any changes are more
related to this process. It's just good to know that the iPower Plus is connected as goog as possible and
eliminates a pontential weak point.


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> Hi iFi audio,
> 
> I have a question about iPurifier DC. Does it fit and OK to use for Pro iCAN in terms of the current limit 3.5A?
> As Pro iCAN's AC adapter is 4A so just wanted to double check technically.
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Technobear is correct.
  
 The iPOWER PLUS is bigger and more powerful that then iPOWER. We do not advise changing the power supply as quite a bit of juice is required to power the Pro iCAN.
  
 Though the Pro iCAN design does includes internal power filtration.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## kj510

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Technobear is correct.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was not thinking about changing the PSU but wanted to know if iPurifier DC has benefit for Pro iCAN or not. And my understanding is it is not recommended as the enclosed AC adapter is low noise enough. Is my understanding correct?


----------



## kj510

tesox said:


> I could not say that it changed the sound. The Pro is still burning in, so any changes are more
> related to this process. It's just good to know that the iPower Plus is connected as goog as possible and
> eliminates a pontential weak point.


 
  Thanks for your reply. I understood. I might try it as I have some unused power cable left to try, maybe good to try it after enough burn in. Do you know how many hour we should burn in this amp?


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> I was not thinking about changing the PSU but wanted to know if iPurifier DC has benefit for Pro iCAN or not. And my understanding is it is not recommended as the enclosed AC adapter is low noise enough. Is my understanding correct?



 


Hi,

Correct!

As this is a question we get asked to partner with iPower or iPower Plus. Much as we like our customers to buy our products, we dont recommend this as it is not needed.

Cheers.


----------



## tesox

I think


kj510 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I understood. I might try it as I have some unused power cable left to try, maybe good to try it after enough burn in. Do you know how many hour we should burn in this amp?


 

 I had good results with around 100h in the past but 50h might be also enough. This is more a question of believing than knowing


----------



## kj510

tesox said:


> I think
> 
> I had good results with around 100h in the past but 50h might be also enough. This is more a question of believing than knowing


 
 Thanks for your reply! Mine is getting better now. I think it is about 80 hours now. Now I started liking tube+ mode. (I used like tube mode) It was not very clear bass but it is now clear and tight. I think mine is now burned in.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kj510 said:


> Thanks for your reply! Mine is getting better now. I think it is about 80 hours now. Now I started liking tube+ mode. (I used like tube mode) It was not very clear bass but it is now clear and tight. I think mine is now burned in.





I didn't go through this process, Tyler was kind enough to "break in" the review sample prior to shipping. Though I can tell you, with the tube modes, I notice a slight improvement after the Amp has been turned on for twenty minutes. 

The PromiCan is the "real deal" a very high end amp, with usefull features (I wanted to hate them), so nice that I sold my Liquid Carbon. Tyler and IFi may have to pry the review unit out of my hands .


----------



## grdlow

I swapped out the stock cable with a Nordost Purple Flare power cord. There were some minor improvements. The sound seemed weightier, smoother and more natural. It's also slightly easier to identity micro details in a track. Overall a nice upgrade.


----------



## Allanmarcus

grdlow said:


> I swapped out the stock cable with a Nordost Purple Flare power cord. There were some minor improvements. The sound seemed weightier, smoother and more natural. It's also slightly easier to identity micro details in a track. Overall a nice upgrade.


 
  
 Wow. that implies there is some power filtering missing from the iPower and the pro iCan. I was under the impression the Pro's power handling is really good an not affected as much by power input. Then you add the iPower, which is also supposed to clarify power quite a bit. If some as basic as a power cord can make a difference, I'm very skeptical about the claims from iFi on the efficacy of pro and iPower's ability to provide clean power.
  
 Have you tried multiple blind tests with a second person to make sure you aren't just suffering from selection bias?


----------



## EVOLVIST

allanmarcus said:


> Wow. that implies there is some power filtering missing from the iPower and the pro iCan. I was under the impression the Pro's power handling is really good an not affected as much by power input. Then you add the iPower, which is also supposed to clarify power quite a bit. If some as basic as a power cord can make a difference, I'm very skeptical about the claims from iFi on the efficacy of pro and iPower's ability to provide clean power.
> 
> Have you tried multiple blind tests with a second person to make sure you aren't just suffering from selection bias?


 
  
 Dude, why don't you just listen to the iCAN Pro and decide for yourself? Music Direct has them in stock. Subjectivity is a very powerful thing.


----------



## Allanmarcus

evolvist said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. that implies there is some power filtering missing from the iPower and the pro iCan. I was under the impression the Pro's power handling is really good an not affected as much by power input. Then you add the iPower, which is also supposed to clarify power quite a bit. If some as basic as a power cord can make a difference, I'm very skeptical about the claims from iFi on the efficacy of pro and iPower's ability to provide clean power.
> ...


 
  
 Ok, I realize I've been a bit skeptical of some of the claims. The above one just got to me. Lots of talk on the thread about the great power supply and filters built in to the Pro, and then a power cable can make a difference? that just doesn't add up.
  
 I'll look into Music Direct's return policy. They have a 60 day return policy, but I cannot tell is simply not liking the device is an acceptable excuse, or if there is a restocking fee.
  
 I guess for now, I'll unsubscribe so I'm not tempted to call BS on claims, and I'll wait for broad reviews. Sorry for my intrusion.


----------



## EVOLVIST

allanmarcus said:


> Ok, I realize I've been a bit skeptical of some of the claims. The above one just got to me. Lots of talk on the thread about the great power supply and filters built in to the Pro, and then a power cable can make a difference? that just doesn't add up.
> 
> I'll look into Music Direct's return policy. They have a 60 day return policy, but I cannot tell is simply not liking the device is an acceptable excuse, or if there is a restocking fee.
> 
> I guess for now, I'll unsubscribe so I'm not tempted to call BS on claims, and I'll wait for broad reviews. Sorry for my intrusion.


 
  
 Nah, man, you ask valid questions. I mean, I would think you are interested in the thing, otherwise you wouldn't be asking. And I totally agree, the amount of available reviews out there, especially reviews from where we've come to expect them is a little puzzling. I would think iFi would be plugging the hell out of this box. Go figure.
  
 But that's just one person talking about one cable making a quantifiable difference. I can't claim that he/she is wrong or right. The only way to know is to test it for yourself. Once I started plugging all of my gear into a proper power regenerator, I could change cords all day and not hear a difference. Power supplies, yes, but not the cords, themselves. Go figure.
  
 About Music Direct: if you don't like it, send it back. That's the way the return policy works. I have no affiliation with Music Direct, but they are a good company. They stand by the equipment they sell. That's my go-to place for almost anything now, and I guess they don't begrudge me for sending something back, since most of the gear I've bought from them I keep.


----------



## grizzlybeast

IFI AUDIO... You should send this box out. Actually it should have been sent before its official release. If you are confident it performs well against TOTL amps then send it to folks like @project86
Or others that have some experience. I find that to be a very important move for launching a product. I would try to review it but I dont have the headphones anymore since I sold a lot of them for the Pavane. 

Im eager to read wildcatsare1 review


----------



## TokenGesture

Me too.


----------



## Trogdor

grizzlybeast said:


> IFI AUDIO... You should send this box out. Actually it should have been sent before its official release. If you are confident it performs well against TOTL amps then send it to folks like @project86
> Or others that have some experience. I find that to be a very important move for launching a product. I would try to review it but I dont have the headphones anymore since I sold a lot of them for the Pavane.
> 
> Im eager to read wildcatsare1 review




They are. Be patient.


----------



## thatonenoob

EDIT:  Going to be rerunning the RMAA with input from the iFi team!


----------



## TokenGesture

trogdor said:


> They are. Be patient.


 

 Patient? That's a headfi term I'm not aware of


----------



## Suopermanni

ONE DAY~! I WILL GET MY HANDS ON THIS THING! I just have to save up over 2500AUD.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

suopermanni said:


> ONE DAY~! I WILL GET MY HANDS ON THIS THING! I just have to save up over 2500AUD.




It's quite worth the wait, an excellent, versatile amp!


----------



## Jozurr

wildcatsare1 said:


> @grizzlybeast Hey I'm set to review the Pro iCan for The Headphone List, I'll be comparing it to the Taurus Mk.2, Herron 5, Liquid Carbon and MicroZOTL 2. Though I am absolutely convinced that Koolpep's command of the English Language is superior to mine, I'll attempt to provide you with the comparisons you seek.


 
  
 Really looking forward to your review and comparisons against the MZ2 and LC. Any initial quick impressions?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jozurr said:


> Really looking forward to your review and comparisons against the MZ2 and LC. Any initial quick impressions?




Sure, I'll give you a hint; I just sold my LC .


----------



## Jozurr

wildcatsare1 said:


> Sure, I'll give you a hint; I just sold my LC .




Many have sold their LC to get the MZ2. So itll all depend if youre selling the MZ2


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jozurr said:


> Many have sold their LC to get the MZ2. So itll all depend if youre selling the MZ2




The MZ2 isn't going anywhere, except maybe to Mojo for the hot rod update (I also have one of those in the house). 

I'll just say for now the iCan Pro is the most versatile amp I've ever used, has the best DSP I've ever heard in a headphone amp (it blows away any of the cross feed systems I have tried), and is three different (& very good) amps in one.


----------



## grizzlybeast

wildcatsare1 said:


> jozurr said:
> 
> 
> > Many have sold their LC to get the MZ2. So itll all depend if youre selling the MZ2
> ...


 
 What is an MZ2. 
  
 FWIW I am most interest in how it compares in transparency and detail retrieval vs the Taurus MK2


----------



## lukeap69

@Wildcatshare1
If you can only have one, MZ2 or iCan Pro?


----------



## grizzlybeast

oh micro zotl2


----------



## technobear

wildcatsare1 said:


> I'll just say for now the iCan Pro is the most versatile amp I've ever used, has *the best DSP *I've ever heard in a headphone amp (it blows away any of the cross feed systems I have tried), and is three different (& very good) amps in one.




The Pro iCAN is an analogue amplifier. There is no DSP. There is no digital circuitry.


----------



## 1974

Has anyone compared it directly to the Ragnarok yet, which is at a similar price point?
  
 Also, can anyone do the math on the balanced output wattage at 50ohms? Heard it drives the HE-6 real well, but would like to know the actual numbers.


----------



## TokenGesture

Hmm. This is my fear with this amp - not having heard it of course - versatility as against true excellence, "3 very good amps" instead of 1 excellent amp??? I wonder.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> The Pro iCAN is an analogue amplifier. There is no DSP. There is no digital circuitry.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Correct, even the nano DSD doesnt have DSP. Not our cup of tea!
  
 Where they have it, they have ASP - Analogue Signal Processing.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ostewart

Looking forward to hearing this amp, hopefully getting one on loan at some point for review.


----------



## EVOLVIST

tokengesture said:


> Hmm. This is my fear with this amp - not having heard it of course - versatility as against true excellence, "3 very good amps" instead of 1 excellent amp??? I wonder.




Nah, imagine it more like this: You've got a really super solid state amp with a huge soundstage and crystal-like transparency. Depending on your DAC and the music, what comes in is what's going to come out...for the most part, because it certainly has a "house sound" which is difficult to put your finger on. I suppose it's more like how I described my iDSD micro when I first got it: it just screams analog. It's more like playing an LP as opposed to digital bits. 

Now, you flip the switch to tubes. It's the same house sound. There's no difference in feel and quality, but now you have this lush creamy sound, yet without sounding bloated. Simply stated, the difference is smoother, more full and recessed. It's not hyperbole. It's akin to listening to a recording that you know sounds thin, but all of a sudden it doesn't. 

I'll make this short, but Tube+ is a combo (simply stated) of SS and Tubes. Now we're really kicking into gear! This is a whole other amp, that has the speed of SS, yet the lushness of tubes. It has the same overall feel, though. You never feel like you're skimping on quality.

I'm short, the more different types of music you listen to, the more you'll get out of this amp. If you're like me you'll find that certain recordings of various vintages sound better depending on your settings. What this means is that you now have more flexibility than any other amp in the planet.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

technobear said:


> The Pro iCAN is an analogue amplifier. There is no DSP. There is no digital circuitry.




Whoops, sorry, haven't started the formal review yet, need to get a couple others wrapped. So bad on me for not doing my homework yet, at this point I can only tell you the magic wrought by IFi works in providing an expansive soundstage without adversely affecting the SQ.


----------



## grizzlybeast

wildcatsare1 said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > The Pro iCAN is an analogue amplifier. There is no DSP. There is no digital circuitry.
> ...


 
 Will you compare it to the MZ2 and Taurus MKII?
  
 If as a solid state, it is as clean and separated as the taurus MK2 I am game, otherwise I will just opt for the Cayin IHA-6 since my tube amp is very much what I want from a tube amp.
  
 Also I am waiting to see what SCHIIT announces.
  
 There are more and more great options out there. As long as reviewers are being honest and aren't schilling one should be able to make a good choice from the variety. 
  
 While not so keen on the soundstage option, I am thankful for the bass implementation and honestly wouldn't mind having an amp with a bass switch.


----------



## 1974

grizzlybeast said:


> As long as reviewers are being honest and aren't schilling


 
  
 +1
  
 We know the iCan Pro will do a lot right, but I'd to see some forthright reviews that point out possible downfalls the amp may have, and put it up against other amps of a similar price / quality.


----------



## kj510

My Pro iCAN is now about 200 hours and the sound is very good now. I love this product and happy with spending 250,000 yen to became an owner.
  
 I use it as a preamp connected by Balanced from Weiss DAC2 and to MC275 and making a wonderful sound! Very liquid and airly sound
 I had an issue of right-left balance but it was a problem in MC275 KT88 tubes. I changed them to Sofia Electronics ones which I stocked and now a perfect sound!
 I use iPurifier2 (I like this very much too) too which is connected after Intona to Bel Canto uLink which is connected to Weiss thru S/PDIF.
  
 I was using Tube+ mode for last 10 days but back to Tube mode again and I am now comfortable with Tube mode and might stay here. Now interested in rolling tubes but I will try to not doing that until the warranty expires. Hope I can keep myself.
  
 Is there anyone who already rolled tubes? It would be nice if someone could share that information here.


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> Is there anyone who already rolled tubes? It would be nice if someone could share that information here.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Unless you can find certain 'unobtainium' tubes, we do not recommend you roll tubes as the GE5670 is pretty hard to beat out of the family of 5670/WE396A/6N3.
  

  
  
 The 2C51 (read: BMW) family is the premium version of the 6922 (read: Ford). Attached is some background information on the 2C51 family.
  
  
  
 The GE5670 is used in AMR's Signature Edition machines which US$5,000 - so if good enough for AMR, certainly good enough for Pro series! 
  

  
  
  
 So rest assured, unless you can find WE396A (Grade A, and NOT Grade B or C) then no point in spending money to downgrade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers.


----------



## tesox

kj510 said:


> I understand that you just want the remote replaced which I really wanted when it happened to me. I don't know it works in Germany for this kind of initial failure but contact the right person in charge to solve it. It might be worth trying disconnecting AC adaptor for a while which might have been a solution for my case.
> 
> I use a universal remote too which can learn by catching the iFi remote to it to learn. For this remote, if the knob moves as much as you keep pressing the remote button so I made several cases to move it much and less.




For everyone who's interested....
I created a ticket and got a quick response from ifi support, excellent !
Few days later I received a new remote which works perfectly now (It is a remote from the retro system).
As soon as an original pro ican remote is available, ifi will send it to me.


----------



## thatonenoob

tesox said:


> For everyone who's interested....
> I created a ticket and got a quick response from ifi support, excellent !
> Few days later I received a new remote which works perfectly now (It is a remote from the retro system).
> As soon as an original pro ican remote is available, ifi will send it to me.




Good to hear. It seems that the remote issue may be resolved sooon.


----------



## kj510

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Unless you can find certain 'unobtainium' tubes, we do not recommend you roll tubes as the GE5670 is pretty hard to beat out of the family of 5670/WE396A/6N3.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the detailed explanation!
 BTW, what is the Output Impedance value of Balanced Out on the back panel (not headphone out but Pre-out) of Pro iCAN?


----------



## TokenGesture

Need more impressions


----------



## grizzlybeast

tokengesture said:


> Need more impressions


 
 VS other TOTL amps


----------



## smial1966

Just a heads up, my new and unused (box still sealed) iFi Pro iCAN is for sale in the classifieds for £995 shipped.
  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/815361/ifi-pro-ican-new-box-still-sealed
  
 Cheers,
 Andy.


----------



## grizzlybeast

smial1966 said:


> Just a heads up, my new and unused (box still sealed) iFi Pro iCAN is for sale in the classifieds for £995 shipped.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/815361/ifi-pro-ican-new-box-still-sealed
> 
> ...


 
 Can that be used in the US?
  
 How does that work, is it 220V only?


----------



## smial1966

The power supply is like a laptop brick, it's AC 100V - 240V so pretty much universal, it outputs a DC 9V.


----------



## Jozurr

wildcatsare1 said:


> The MZ2 isn't going anywhere, except maybe to Mojo for the hot rod update (I also have one of those in the house).
> 
> I'll just say for now the iCan Pro is the most versatile amp I've ever used, has the best DSP I've ever heard in a headphone amp (it blows away any of the cross feed systems I have tried), and is three different (& very good) amps in one.


 
  
 Just trying to assess which one is objectively better SQ wise, minus the features. If you had to choose one based on that, which one would you go for?


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> Thank you for the detailed explanation!
> 
> BTW, what is the Output Impedance value of Balanced Out on the back panel (not headphone out but Pre-out) of Pro iCAN?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 150 ohm.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jozurr said:


> Just trying to assess which one is objectively better SQ wise, minus the features. If you had to choose one based on that, which one would you go for?




Well you'll have to wait for the review ...


----------



## motberg

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Unless you can find certain 'unobtainium' tubes, we do not recommend you roll tubes as the GE5670 is pretty hard to beat out of the family of 5670/WE396A/6N3.
> 
> ...


 

 This is interesting but I have a set of iFi NOS6922 which I compared in a Project Tube Pre RS (using SBooster LPS) to other 6922's and my preference is '74 or '75 Reflektors... My preamp is certainly not in same league as the AMR or even the iFi but I would want some tube rolling options considering my experience with the NOS6922.


----------



## EVOLVIST

motberg said:


> This is interesting but I have a set of iFi NOS6922 which I compared in a Project Tube Pre RS (using SBooster LPS) to other 6922's and my preference is '74 or '75 Reflektors... My preamp is certainly not in same league as the AMR or even the iFi but I would want some tube rolling options considering my experience with the NOS6922.




That's interesting. I used to own the Project Tube Pre RS. I couldn't unload it fast enough! Haha! Seriously, it's good that somebody is having a good experience with the Project gear.

So, you bought the matched pair of tubes from iFi?


----------



## motberg

evolvist said:


> That's interesting. I used to own the Project Tube Pre RS. I couldn't unload it fast enough! Haha! Seriously, it's good that somebody is having a good experience with the Project gear.
> 
> So, you bought the matched pair of tubes from iFi?


 

 Hi.. the online reviews of the Project pre are not so bad, especially when using a good PS and tubes to preference. It has been discontinued so I got one at half retail and spending 5000 for a preamp is not necessary for me. However I was seriously considering the iFi iCan Pro, even though I use speakers.
 I also have an iFi iTube and find that has a similar thick sound (compared to the Reflektors) as the NOS6922 tubes in the Project..
  
 Yes, iFi offers the tubes/adapter separate.
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/
  
 I also have an Audio-GD Master 1 ss pre for comparison and since I have changed my Master 7 DAC to the NOS version, I am finding possibly less necessary to opt for the tube sound option.


----------



## Jozurr

wildcatsare1 said:


> Well you'll have to wait for the review
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Anxiously waiting. By when is it expected to be published?


----------



## redstar

What dac would one recommend for the ican pro?
Is there a dac/amp combo coming to the pro line?


----------



## technobear

redstar said:


> What dac would one recommend for the ican pro?
> Is there a dac/amp combo coming to the pro line?




There is a Pro iDSD in the works.

Start here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread


----------



## TokenGesture

This launched in February. Why so few impressions?


----------



## grizzlybeast

tokengesture said:


> This launched in February. Why so few impressions?


 
 Some companies have more leverage in terms of who they know in the industry to review their products positively. 
 Some companies, irregardless of leverage they have take on a more aggressive approach and make it to every canjam, every newport show, every big meet, as well as place tours etc to get impressions. 
  
 iFi is open and has a very responsive and genuinely respectable team but they are neither aggressive, nor do they seem to make appearances at any of these larger meets. Also I really doubt they have the leverage or connections with people that review bigger gear since they haven't made any full sized gear yet.  
  
 I have a max budget of ~2.5k and will be ready in a month or so and so far I am really leaning towards the Audio-GD HE-9 but I am so intrigued by this little amp as well as whatever new amp Schiit releases. However, without it being descriptively benchmarked against another TOTL amp I will have to hold off unless I read it to compare favorably against other big boys.
  
 Why? because though I am into taking risks and have bought several other pieces of gear that are unpopular, the LAST thing I want to do is have a sub par desktop amp sitting here that I cannot sell unless I price it extremely low simply  because it seems equally a risk to everyone else who is not knowing what they will be getting. 
  
 Kevin or Wildcatsare seems to have his Taurus MKII up for sale or has sold it. I have read people choose the MKII over the RAG for the HD800 but never for sheer technicalities. However, He also still has the MZ2 which, which when I heard it in person I found was a bit too flat sounding and the bass wasn't as taught as my own tube amp (in a meet) and I wouldn't consider it for an endgame amp (for my tastes) especially because it lacks power. I know he likes the Pro more than the Taurus and is keeping the MZ2. 
  
 So it seems as if it is competitive but unless it offers a level of technicalities above the MZ2, I may pass as well and stick to my goal. 
  
 I could sell a headphone and get the Pro but then I will be 500 short for my HE-9. 
  
 Tis the season of waiting and seeing. Though I have been waiting for a bit for this one, it may be worth it.


----------



## grdlow

grizzlybeast said:


> Some companies have more leverage in terms of who they know in the industry to review their products positively.
> Some companies, irregardless of leverage they have take on a more aggressive approach and make it to every canjam, every newport show, every big meet, as well as place tours etc to get impressions.
> 
> iFi is open and has a very responsive and genuinely respectable team but they are neither aggressive, nor do they seem to make appearances at any of these larger meets. Also I really doubt they have the leverage or connections with people that review bigger gear since they haven't made any full sized gear yet.
> ...


An electrostatic module for the iCan Pro will be out which gives the amp greater versatility than the Taurus or MZ2. A Stax L700 with the iCan Pro should be pretty sweet.


----------



## Kenny Powers

So i Have had an Pro ICAN for a little under a month and last sunday it started clicking like when you turn it on but constant nothing effected the headphones but the clicking in the ICAN was constant. I contacted music direct who i bought it from and they were cool ready for me to send it in. I worked all week and on friday im like ill give it another shot and it started working again like it did when i bought it. So my question is should i return it or not I kinda want to because at this price i would hate for it it die in me in a month just want to hear what you think.


----------



## Priaptor

Get a replacement. I went through a similar issue with a different amp and thought it was just a quirk that reared its ugly head once. Well next time it happened it almost blew my speakers


----------



## grizzlybeast

wildcatsare1 said:


> jozurr said:
> 
> 
> > Just trying to assess which one is objectively better SQ wise, minus the features. If you had to choose one based on that, which one would you go for?
> ...


 

  
 I know these things take time though


----------



## Wildcatsare1

grizzlybeast said:


> I know these things take time though




I'll wrap this one and the MZ2 reviews early next week, have the Ether Flow and Flow-C incoming, hopefully tomorrow. I was hoping to include more CIEMs with the Pro iCan but getting decent impressions done here in Lexington proved impossible. Ended up using the impressions the Alclair Rep. in Nashville made for the other participants. May get the 64 Audios in time, but don't think I can hold off for the others, so I'll probably end up doing an addendum at some point. 

So apologies on the delay. What I can tell you now is that it will be replacing my Taurus Mk.2 as my Refernce SS/Hybrid Amp, with the MZ2 in the Tube slot. 

Now I'd love to hear more about the Elear versus the Omni ...


----------



## iFi audio

kenny powers said:


> So i Have had an Pro ICAN for a little under a month and last sunday it started clicking like when you turn it on but constant nothing effected the headphones but the clicking in the ICAN was constant. I contacted music direct who i bought it from and they were cool ready for me to send it in. I worked all week and on friday im like ill give it another shot and it started working again like it did when i bought it. So my question is should i return it or not I kinda want to because at this price i would hate for it it die in me in a month just want to hear what you think.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 We dont know but best you open a Support Ticket:
  
 http://support.ifi-audio.com/
  
  
  
 Is it possible that the volume was turned up way above normally sensible? There are protection circuits that will shut the iCAN pro off if overloaded (or other problems) but they will self re-set. 
 Using large amounts of X-Bass and high 3-D settings cause large extra power demand and may, with some headphones, volume settings and music cause the overload protection to trip.
  
 A lot of different combos!
  
 Cheers.


----------



## gabbabe

can the tube be easily changed?
  
 Not so much for tube rolling purposes, but if the tube dies out in the future, would need to be swap for a new one.


----------



## iFi audio

gabbabe said:


> can the tube be easily changed?
> Not so much for tube rolling purposes, but if the tube dies out in the future, would need to be swap for a new one.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Yes, reasonably easily, though not a straight unplug/replug. The vertical adapter is solidly soldered to the main PCB. Hold the adapter and 'wriggle' the GE tube.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## gabbabe

Thanks.
  
 I look forward to the reviews!


----------



## kj510

ifi audio said:


> kj510 said:
> 
> 
> > I was not thinking about changing the PSU but wanted to know if iPurifier DC has benefit for Pro iCAN or not. And my understanding is it is not recommended as the enclosed AC adapter is low noise enough. Is my understanding correct?
> ...


 
  
 As Japan version AC Adapter is not iPower Plus but 3rd parties normal switching AC Adapter (Adapter Tech, STD-15060) due to the domestic regulation, I decided to connect iPurifier DC to Pro iCAN.
 But with this connection, iPurifier DC gets quite warm, is it OK if it gets warm?


----------



## kj510

ifi audio said:


> Hi,
> 
> Unless you can find certain 'unobtainium' tubes, we do not recommend you roll tubes as the GE5670 is pretty hard to beat out of the family of 5670/WE396A/6N3.
> 
> ...


 
 I secured Grade A WE JW-2C51 and GE 5670 pairs. I got them for spares and am not rolling them now but only when the current GE 5670 becomes weak. WE was 175 USD and GE was 30 USD.
 As you say, GE is still very reasonable and I bet WE won't make 6 times better than GE as their price difference but it was hard to stop securing a WE pair to know by myself, seeing is believing.


----------



## iFi audio

kj510 said:


> But with this connection, iPurifier DC gets quite warm, is it OK if it gets warm?


 
  
 Hi,
  
 The chassis is the heatsink - so yes, okay to be somewhat warm.
  
 We run with laptops and the DC iPurifier certainly becomes warm to touch.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## bidn

redstar said:


> What dac would one recommend for the ican pro?
> Is there a dac/amp combo coming to the pro line?


 
  
 I have had the iCAN Pro for several months.
 I would like to buy the Utopia, and I have been told the iCAN Pro should be good enough for it as an amp,
 but that I should buy the Schiit Yggdrasil as a matching DAC.
  
  
 On the other hand the iDSD Pro DAC should be marketed next year.
 The Yggdrasil has the disadvantage that it does not play DSD (however I don't play much DSD),
 and that the iDSD will probably have a much smaller form factor (and hopefully lesser power consumption).
  
 But again in favour of the Yggdrasil is that you don't have to wait,
 and you know for sure that is an excellent DAC, we don't know how the iDSD will turn out.
  
 In my case I have not made up my mind, whether I should go for the Yggdrasil or wait for the iDSD.
 It probably will depend from the date when the Utopia will be available in the country where I live,
 there is apparently so much demand that FOCAL cannot cope with it and months of delays add on,
 So the more I think about it, the more likely it is that I may just as well wait for the iDSD to come out and see how it will compare to the Yggdrasil.


----------



## bidn

I can give some impressions about the iFi iCAN Pro,
 but I am not in a position to write a review of it as it is the first dedicated desktop headphone amp which I own.
  
 I purchased it in mid-June , i.e. only two months ago,
 and in this period of the year (summer) I have much less opportunity to play with my audio equipment.
 I have quite a number of TOTL headphones (incl. Final Sonorous X, VIII,  Mrspeakers Ether C, Oppo, etc.)
 but due to time restriction in this period of the year
 I used it so far only with the HD 800 (through the XLR-4 output)
 and the AKG K812.
  
  
 I bought it because:
  
 1 I already owned the iFi iDSD micro (combo of DAC and amp), whose SQ received excellent ratings in the tests of respected German audio magazines.
 However I hated the volume knob of the iFi micro: too small, and worse, when used in the mode for high impedance phones, a small rotation of the knob would change the sound too much, making it too much of a hassle to use. So  I was interested in a better device improving on the iDSD micro.
  
 2 I like multi-purpose things like the iCAN Pro. I was interested in its possibility of switching between solid-state and gaz tube modes, especially as I was not ready for a tube-only amp, not quite trusting the idea that they have a warm sound. Also the iCAN Pro has a few other tweaks and a good number of input and output connections 
  
 3 It has a small form factor
  
 4 It has class A or A/B depending on the power.
  
  
 First the things I don't like about the unit I received :
  
 1 the remote does not really allow to adjust the volume. I followed the advice above in this thread and opened a support ticket on their site, hoping they will ship me a replacement.
 Hopefully this issue is or will be fixed with the newer shipments
  
 2 it does not have a 6,35 mm jack output (I think in the US it is called 1/4 inch TRS ), which for me is more important that the separate left and right XLR-3 outputs.
 But if this is the trade-off for getting a small form factor, then so be it, you can't ask for the moon,
  
  
 Now what I like about it :
  
 1 I indeed enjoy being able to switch and compare the solid state and the tube circuits, and I am very satisfied by the discovery that I prefer the more resolving sound of the solid state circuit so far.
  
 2 There are indeed further tweaks and many outputs (an unbalanced and a balanced jack, XLR-4, etc.)
  
 3 it does improve the SQ of my DAC-amp combo (Pioneer U-05) : more power, more body, 
 the sound is also more "lush" ( I am not sure whether this is the right word) compared to the quite analytical sound produced by the dual ESS Sabre 9016 of the Pioneer U-05.
  
 However the changes in sound are not quite as spectacular as one of the tweaks of the Pioneer U-05, i.e. going from the standard USB frame locking range to the most narrow one increased a lot the resolution.
  
 I am sorry I cannot say more and am not in position to feed it with a TOTL DAC nor to compare it with other dedicated phone amps.


----------



## technobear

bidn said:


> 2 it does not have a 6,35 mm jack output (I think in the US it is called 1/4 inch TRS ), which for me is more important that the separate left and right XLR-3 outputs.




Actually the Pro iCAN has two 6.35mm outputs.


----------



## thatonenoob

technobear said:


> Actually the Pro iCAN has two 6.35mm outputs.





And a 3.5 too for sensitive items. Though not being able to individually adjust each 6.35 mm output is slightly missed op. Then again, the amp wasn't specifically designed to run multiple cans.


----------



## grizzlybeast

thatonenoob said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the Pro iCAN has two 6.35mm outputs.
> ...


 
  
 What amp do you know can control each output separately and simultaneously?


----------



## thatonenoob

grizzlybeast said:


> What amp do you know can control each output separately and simultaneously?




Many pro audio amps do this. Sure, different levels of sound quality and (even compromised) design. But this was the Professional iCAN, with studio grade performance. To clarify- I'm not expecting it to have 8 channels of freedom, or even 2 for that matter. But hey, it'd be cool to have that independent capability. Now I'm sure there are many engineering considerations..and hence I'm really not dinging it. Dual output listening has been done - head box se ii. Maybe I'll rephrase this - it'd be cool to see independent volume/ gain.


----------



## iFi audio

technobear said:


> Actually the Pro iCAN has two 6.35mm outputs.


 
  
 This is correct. It does.


----------



## grdlow

bidn said:


> I have had the iCAN Pro for several months.
> I would like to buy the Utopia, and I have been told the iCAN Pro should be good enough for it as an amp,
> but that I should buy the Schiit Yggdrasil as a matching DAC.
> 
> ...


 
 I've been using the iCan Pro with the Yggdrasil and HD800S for a bit and the combination is stunning. Think of the pairing as lifelike hyper detailed DAC meets lush, highly musical amp and completely honest headphones.


----------



## Kenny Powers

Should i be running a fan over this amp is does seem to get pretty hot. I live in california and we dont have the coolest weather in america.


----------



## bidn

ifi audio said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the Pro iCAN has two 6.35mm outputs.
> ...


 
 Hello,
  
 Please excuse me for my mistake,
 I am quite sorry, let me explain:
 I was back from summer holidays, I had forgotten about the connections,
 and as I try to have as little light as possible in my study (so it is quite obscure and I can put the big 48" SUHD TV which I use as a computer screen at very low luminosity),
 I mistook the two front 6,35 mm jack inputs for 2 XLR-3 inputs
 (they have a big black muff, and the whole is same size as the XLR-4 plug between the two 6,35 mm jacks
 (I have been so far only using the XLR-4 (to HD-800) and the 3,5 mm (to AKG K812) plugs).
  
 The iFI iCAN is really nice and I love the small form factor.
 Not too small for me like the products of the nano and micro series, 
 but as small as possible to get big enough knobs and all the connections you wish.
  
 BTW iFI support promptly and professinaly replied and sent me a replacement remote which I should receive soon.


----------



## bidn

kenny powers said:


> Should i be running a fan over this amp is does seem to get pretty hot. I live in california and we dont have the coolest weather in america.


 
  
 I think that all good amps have to produce warmth, the tube ones producing more than the semiconductor ones.
 Moreover given its relatively very small surface, the iFI iCAN Pro will produce less heat that a much bigger amp having the same temperature.
  
 I have been using it with a maximum room temperature of 26 degree Celsius (80 Fahrenheit) this summer, 
 it has produced less heat than other devices
 (I rank like this in terms of heat production : #1 is my 48js9000 Samsung TV which I use as a computer monitor in my study, #2 my 8-disk NAS, #3 my two 5-disk NAS, #4 my Windows and Linux full-tower computers , #5 my AV Onkyo TX-NR-636 receiver for driving the 5.1 speakers in my study, #6 iFI ICAN Pro, #7 Pioneer U-05).
 The AV receiver is not as hot as the iFI ICAN Pro, but the the heat-producing surface is much bigger.
 Please note that I turn off the audio devices (iFi, Onkyo, Pioneer) when not using them, whereas the other devices are always on.
  
  
 A van may be producing noise, so I would avoid using one.
 Another idea could be putting a silent laptop fan underneath, but in the case of the iFI iCAn Pro, it would not help because the major part of its bottom consists of a thick layer of plastic (designed against vibrations, but it will probably isolate, preventing the cooling).
  
  
 In general I think that, because people in Europe are constantly exhorted by the governments and the media to save energy,
 there is much awareness of this issue here,
 so they will tend to design devices wasting less energy, thus producing less heat.
 So re. heat production I would have a positive prejudice about products of European companies like iFi or Chord,
 and unfortunately rather negative about American products in this respect.
 In other words I assume that the iFi iCAn Pro will be producing less heat than most similar products of competing companies.


----------



## Kenny Powers

So I shouldn't have to worry about overheating it then? I dont listen to it for crazy amount of hours or anything and its never shut off on me so im just asking.


----------



## iFi audio

kenny powers said:


> So I shouldn't have to worry about overheating it then? I dont listen to it for crazy amount of hours or anything and its never shut off on me so im just asking.


 
  
 No, you wont be listening for longer than 4 day show!


----------



## Mediahound

Has anyone compared this to the Schiit Mjolnir 2? I'm curious how it compares.


----------



## Mediahound

Also, where is iFi based and where are they made?


----------



## bidn

bidn said:


> 1 the remote does not really allow to adjust the volume. I followed the advice above in this thread and opened a support ticket on their site, hoping they will ship me a replacement.
> Hopefully this issue is or will be fixed with the newer shipments


 
  
 I received the replacement remote which ifI nicely shipped to me (I did not have to send back the first one).
 It exactly looks the same, but the buttons work perfectly (the volume goes on changing as you keep pressing a button).
  
 Thank you for your professional service, ifI !


----------



## bidn

mediahound said:


> Also, where is iFi based and where are they made?


 
  
 They are located in the United Kingdom.
 I thought that their products are manufactured in the UK as well, but I am not sure about this.


----------



## Mediahound

bidn said:


> They are located in the United Kingdom.
> I thought that their products are manufactured in the UK as well, but I am not sure about this.


 

 Looks like China actually.


----------



## bidn

mediahound said:


> bidn said:
> 
> 
> > They are located in the United Kingdom.
> ...


 
 You are right,
 I checked a few packages which I preserved (in case I need the warranty)
 and they all say: "assembled in China".


----------



## grizzlybeast

Found a pretty detailed mini review here
  
_"iFi Pro iCan Balanced Headphone Amplifier Mini Review_   

 
_




_​
  

_You can view our range of Headphone Amplifers here_
_You can view the Pro iCan Headphone Amplifier Here_​
 _  _
_We've recently received one of iFi's brand new Pro iCan Headphone Amplifiers / Pre-Amp's so thought we'd run it through it's paces to see how it sounds and works. Feel free to pop by our Wellington Store if you would like to have a listen._
  
_The iCan is marketed as a reference level product, so it has been reviewed as such. We compared it using our most resolving headphones and sources, and compared directly against the widely lauded Moon 430HA fully balanced headphone amplifier._
  
_Basic Info / Features:_ _The Pro is apparently an all analogue, fully balanced design, with several different modes of operation. It features a pure class A (Or as iFi terms "tube-state") section, a relatively serious tube section based around the famous GE 5670 tubes, as well as a more "luxurious" tube+ mode. According to iFi this Tube+ mode has a lower loop gain, which minimises negative feedback, creating an even more "tube-like" sound._
  
_One particularly nice feature of the Pro iCan is that you can switch between these modes from the front panel, while the unit is operating. Meaning if you change songs, you can also change the amplifier mode to the amplifier mode which sounds best for the particular piece of music._
  
_The Pro iCan also has huge variety of different front panel connection options, including four pin balanced, 3 pin balanced, two 6.3mm Outputs and two 3.5mm outputs, as well as a 3.5mm connection capable of powering a 4 pin TRRS balanced 3.5mm cable if necessary. Basically, this means whatever headphone connection you can dream up, the iCan will power it._
  
_The iCan also features selectable xBass (A form of bass boost circuit) and what iFi terms 3D Holographic, which is a circuit designed to replicate the imaging found in stereo speakers, in headphones. A little more on these adjustments in the sound section of the review._
  
_As many readers know, it's easy and cheap to whack on some balanced inputs and outputs onto a device, but a whole other kettle of fish to implement a fully balanced internal design. With demanding headphone listening in particular, the balanced operation can actually significantly improve the measured sound quality of headphones._
  
_From Tyll Hertson (Inner Fidelity.com):_
_"Basically you are driving both sides of the coil in each earpiece. This means that the load looks half the impedance to a single sided drive scheme. Since both signals are driving you effectively double the slew rate (which is the transient speed of the drive signal). But maybe most importantly, you get rid of the common connection in the ground the two drivers share. The impedance between the common connection on the ground side of each driver to the actual ground of the power supply allows a common signal to develop on the ground side of each drive effectively providing crosstalk between left and right channels."_
  
_Many of these features also apply to the pre-amp section as well. Including the fully balanced design and volume control, as well as separate xBass and 3D Holographic circuits for the pre-amp outputs. It also has a basic remote control._
  
_Build Quality Impressions_  
_The Pro iCan seems overall to be built to a very high standard. The volume control and front panel connections all seem solid and sturdy. The aluminium casing is slightly lightweight but is quite a nice finish with interestingly shaped cut-outs. The input selection and other switches and dials all seem sturdy to touch._
  

_



_​
  
_I found this video showing a full tear-down of the headphone amplifier, which appears to show iFi have really gone all out with the design and construction of this unit._
  
_The iCan is supplied with a separate switch mode power supply. Usually this isn't the best sign as they are typically of average quality, however iFi are well known for producing much higher quality switch mode power supplies than their competitors. It's not too large so doesn't get in the way of other wall warts. _
  
_The base of the unit is an interesting nylon design, presumably to help the amp grip to a surface. However, due to the relatively compact size of the unit it seems to move around a fair amount when attaching balanced connections. You will typically need to hold the amp with one hand while connecting or disconnecting anything._
  

_



_
_The Pro iCan's extremely impressive internal construction._​
  
_In use, the iCan seems to get quite hot. A fully class A headphone amplifier will typically do this, it's probably not something to seriously worry about, but generally speaking it will be worth keeping an eye on. I wouldn't leave your headphones (or anything else) on top of the unit._
  
_Sound:_  
_Starting with the Solid State Mode, the first headphones we tried were Sennheiser HD800's. Immediately, a very large, wide sound-stage is evident, with instruments placed quite accurately. Bottom end control was excellent although there wasn't quite the impact and slam achieved with Moon's 430HAD. Mid-range and vocals seemed quite present, and spooky accurate. This amp is quite capable of spine-shivering moments._
  
_My only gripe with this combination was that the top end seemed a little grating. It seemed very clean and extended, but just a little too much emphasis. Sometimes cymbals felt like they completely cut through the rest of a recording. It's worth noting that when listening to the same tracks in the standard tube mode, this emphasis seemed to disappear completely, leaving a very smooth response (to my ears)_
  
_The tube+ mode to my ears, is a little heavy handed. However, I can see how it would be fun with certain bright recordings or aggressive sounding headphones, such as the Grado RS-2. _
  

_



_
_This image shows some of the front panel controls of the iCan Pro. The amplifier class selector is below the Xbass selector_​
  
_Changing now to Oppo PM1's, we used both the stock OCC cable and Wireworld's custom eclipse balanced cable. In the solid state mode, with the balanced cable is basically some of the best sound I have heard from these headphones. Some of my personal downsides with the PM1's are basically their lack of very extended bottom end and an overly smooth top end. The power, control and finesse through the frequency range really show off these headphones._
  
_Experimenting with the selectable bass boost, I found the 10Hz setting actually quite pleasant and subtle with these headphones on a variety of recordings. Both the 20Hz and 40Hz settings were far too heavy handed for my preference. With some particularly meager headphones, or for bass lovers, this might still be useful I suppose._
  
_Experimenting further with the 3D holographic setting, I found it to be surprisingly subtle and effective. Normally, I am militantly against cross-feed circuits, which typically muddy the low end and confuse top end detail. This is the first I have found that is genuinely effective at creating a slightly more focused image, without taking away other aspects of a recording. I highly recommend you try this feature as with many recordings it will make them seem a lot more natural. My preferred setting with both the HD800's and PM1's was the 30 Degree setting._
  
_Conclusion_  
_This is certainly a reference class headphone amplifier. No headphone or recording is perfect, so a tool that can make imperfect headphones and recordings sound bearable, while still showing off the best parts of top end headphones._
  
_A good quality source and balanced cables for any headphones that are capable, are highly recommended to get the most out of this unit. Set up correctly, this headphone amplifier is capable of taking already great headphones to dizzying heights."_


----------



## grizzlybeast

Also they love it over here
  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://kakaku.com/item/K0000883231/&prev=search


----------



## grizzlybeast

Here are impressions vs the @CayinIHA-6 except this one is in favor of the Cayin
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://forum.mp3store.pl/topic/133700-ifi-ican-pro/&prev=search
  
_"My little you know, so here will be more closely. For me, ican Pro yes game very vividly, saturated sound, at the expense of detail and resolution. For this is an awful lot of bass, it does not matter whether a transistor or lamp, which is very slow. Its signature sound is something similar to Bakoona HPA21 and tube mode even more saturated with the diameter of the detail and resolution much greater than ICAN, except that HPA21 is faster and a little harder bases. 

Cayin iHa6 plays an equal, it is faster and has better detail and resolution. It is not so that I CAYIN the eighth wonder of the world, because the sound of his I do not like is zabardzo for smooth, without the clutch, and when listening to classical or anisonów to me the most in the przeskadza, for example. Listening to Beethoven's Fifth Symphony under the baton of Carlos Klebiera I felt like I was listening to a mantra or some other relaxing music instead Symphony, the more even Beethoven's Fifth. IHA6 is much better for me, amplifier and cheaper, the price of ICAN Pro you can buy eg. The whole set CAYIN or attaining much better adhesion amplifiers with dac'ami. Wróciiwszy yet ICAN is on the "Caravan" with the definitive Whisplash played correctly it lacked the speed of "attack" and dynamics, as if the song was released in slow motion. Lyn Stanley album "Lost in Romance" was also badly cast, because yes nasyciło preach Lyn, but he was ejected on the front, just caught up with bass instruments. Chris from us, even though he likes bass sound, but it has to be for him a well-controlled bass said about iFi that is mud. _

iFi will be good for someone who likes the sound of a large amount of bass that will slow and the diameter is saturated. He should check carefully with a very bright and fast headphones and dac'ami. 

_Headphones used to be 2-LCD and LCD-3, both of the transducers 2016 or descend a little lower, they have less conquered the upper bass and a little more up front. A dac'ki is 2qute and iDAC6."_
  
_Further on vs a yulong model_
  
_"_
_ plugged in the end HE1000 - listening only using the XLR inputs in wzmakach (especially to point out, because Yulong is not balanced), and I have to say that the Yulong outclasses ICAN Pro._
_What are the differences?_
_Yulong on PLUS:_
_- Better controls bass_
_- More air (!)_
_- Better holography (!)_
_- Better mountain_
_- The message is more coherent_
_- Diameter is better served than Cayin iHa6_
_- Lock headphone sockets_
 
 
_Yulong on MINUS:_
_- Worse housing design_
_- Potentiometer cries out for better_
 
_ICAN Pro:_
_on the PLUS:_
_- Definitely execution_
_- Strong diameter_
_- Good (only) playing the transistor_
 
_minus:_
_- Too sugary sound_
_- Too rounded bass_
_- Too exposed a wealth diameter_
_- no air_
_- Poor stereophony_
_- Only bad holography_
_- Wherein the high band (?!)_
 
_I think I know why this P.Ryka wzmak liked so - likes Audioquest Nighthawk, which I, in turn, do not like._
 
_Much rather Bryston BHA-1 from the IFI 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




"_


----------



## bidn

grizzlybeast said:


> Here are impressions vs the @CayinIHA-6 except this one is in favor of the Cayin
> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://forum.mp3store.pl/topic/133700-ifi-ican-pro/&prev=search
> 
> _......_


 
  
 Thank you very much for posting these translations of reviews, grizzlybeast.
 These are so far the most interesting I read,
 because these are the first I read which make comparisons with competing products.
  
 I did not understand which Yulong product the reviewer meant, did you?
  
 The comparison with the Cayin is worrisome.
 Especially if I gather also the comparisons made across J. Grandberg's reviews of amps at innerfidelity,
 this would give the following ranking :
 ("<" meaning "lesser SQ"  and ">" meaning "higher SQ")
 ifI iCAN Pro < Cayin IHA-6 =< Auralic Taurus mkII << Vioelectric V281.
 The review of the V281 is very positive, (V281 >>  SPL Phonitor 2. etc.: V281 >> Meridian Prime; V281 >> Luxman P-700u...).
 Then maybe I should have bought the V281 which seems to be a winner instead of the iCan Pro?
 It is a pity for me that innerfidelity's amp section does not get many updates, because their site looks the most authoritative of all to me.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Yulong a8

Also from what I gather the V281 is not great at resolution and micro dynamics. The V281 has varying views

For me my debate is between the v281, master 9, Ragnarok and this. 

However the Rag and M9 are winning right now based on research. 

I had the Cayin iHa6 for review and thoughy it was excellent 
It just missed out a bit on layering and spaciousness as only performing decently. My Trafomatic had deeper soundstage, better layering, less grain, stronger bass, stronger dynamics, slower speed, equal clarity, less bright but slower decay in the bass. Overall my TH2 was better especially for higher impedance hps where the iha6 was not even a close match. 

I simply want a solid state Totl amp now but want a wide soundstage with uber clarity, solid bass and microdetail and microdynamics. I want the HE-9 but its 400 ovet my budget


----------



## Mediahound

I like the slightly dark sound signature of the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Does this have a sound signature like that or is it brighter?


----------



## EVOLVIST

grizzlybeast said:


> Yulong a8
> 
> Also from what I gather the V281 is not great at resolution and micro dynamics. The V281 has varying views
> 
> ...




Sounds like you would LOVE the SPL Auditor of you don't want the iCAN Pro. I'm sure it would pair beautifully with your Pavane. Wide, detailed, as pure as virgin snow. The original is still the best, and can be had for a song on the used market. It's Pro Audio stuff, used in mastering houses around the world...yet, it's far from etchy or clinical.

I like the iCAN Pro. I really do. It's no joke, but in the end I just decided that I have no real place for tubes. *shrug*


----------



## greenpsycho

Just wanted to drop a quick note as I just received my ican pro yesterday. Still listening to it and getting used to the settings, but I'm happy thus far. Only downside is I wish the volume control did not control the preout's volumes, so now I have to find another way to hook all this up to my dac and preamp.
  
 If anyone has any questions, please ask. Equipment listed below - will plan on posting more info later


----------



## tesox

grizzlybeast said:


> Here are impressions vs the @Cayin
> IHA-6 except this one is in favor of the Cayin
> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pl&u=http://forum.mp3store.pl/topic/133700-ifi-ican-pro/&prev=search
> 
> ...




I really ask myself what is wrong with this guy. How can someone be so massively wrong with
everything??? The ican pro is neither slow nor has a small soundstage without "air".
He should let his ears checked by a doctor.

Some really good amps passed my desktop and the ifi ican pro surpasses them all.
(I sold my Auralic Taurus MK II because the ifi was clearly the better amp.)
It has one of the widest and deepest soundstages i've ever heard and sounds chrisp,
fast and chrystal clear without any digital harshness...... just right !
If someone likes an artificial uber-bright sound signature with thin bass,
like this guy, the ifi may be wrong.


----------



## grizzlybeast

> I really ask myself what is wrong with this guy. How can someone be so massively wrong with
> everything??? The ican pro is neither slow nor has a small soundstage without "air".
> He should let his ears checked by a doctor.
> 
> ...


 
 Bryston is known for being bright and harsh. I really liked the IFI ICAN SE and it didn't sound like the above and I imagine this to be better. I am prone to believe you.


----------



## EVOLVIST

tesox said:


> I really ask myself what is wrong with this guy. How can someone be so massively wrong with
> everything??? The ican pro is neither slow nor has a small soundstage without "air".
> He should let his ears checked by a doctor.
> 
> ...




Before any listening session, one part of my ritual is to make sure that my ears are clean (no Q-tips). I cannot stress this enough.


----------



## grdlow

grizzlybeast said:


> Bryston is known for being bright and harsh. I really liked the IFI ICAN SE and it didn't sound like the above and I imagine this to be better. I am prone to believe you.


i have both the bryston bha1 and the ifi ican pro. you are right about the bryston being slightly bright and harsh. the ican pro is the smoother, more detailed, luscious, and holographic sounding amp of the two. the ican pro is also clearly head and shoulders above the ican se.


----------



## drwlf

evolvist said:


> Before any listening session, one part of my ritual is to make sure that my ears are clean (no Q-tips). I cannot stress this enough.


 
  
 Ear oil?


----------



## bidn

tesox said:


> I really ask myself what is wrong with this guy. How can someone be so massively wrong with
> everything??? The ican pro is neither slow nor has a small soundstage without "air".
> He should let his ears checked by a doctor.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for sharing your diverging opinion because this translation of the Asian review made me doubt
 whether I had made the right choice in purchasing the ifI iCAN Pro.
 Now I feel reassured


----------



## rickyleelee

bidn said:


> Thank you for sharing your diverging opinion because this translation of the Asian review made me doubt
> whether I had made the right choice in purchasing the ifI iCAN Pro.
> Now I feel reassured


 
   No mention of Asian brand names but some write their own reviews on Asian forums. This is why even I in hong kong go on western forums. Trust your own listening.





  


   I always try to compare against other brands but don't mention them here the ones that don't do so well.


----------



## Topspin70

I own a Yulong. Even the iCAN SE sounds better. More precise and airier with wider and deeper soundstage.


----------



## Topspin70

YMMV. But not by that much, seriously.


----------



## Topspin70

Duplicate post deleted.


----------



## EVOLVIST

drwlf said:


> Ear oil?




Ha! No, the object is to keep your ears so clean all of the time that you get the was while it is still oil, before it hardens in your ear. Although, every once in awhile I do a more thorough cleaning to make sure nothing was missed.

I have a bit of tinnitus that is actually only cured by listening to my cans on the regular. It's not bad tinnitus, though. I only hear it when I pay close attention.

Too much standing in front of amps and playing in my younger days. Heh.


----------



## 1974

Edit: Issue resolved.


----------



## greenpsycho

Weird. Doesn't happen to me and my he-6. Sounds like it's defective or cant pull enough power from your mains. How stable is your house electricity?


----------



## wadi

So does 14 watts into 16 ohms means 7 watts per channel? Is this peak power or continuous power?


----------



## 1974

greenpsycho said:


> Weird. Doesn't happen to me and my he-6. Sounds like it's defective or cant pull enough power from your mains. How stable is your house electricity?


 
  
 House electricity is solid. This unit is from the UK and I'm using it in the US, so the one thing I had to do was change the 3 pin power cable to a 2 pin power cable. Maybe that's the issue, I'll try some different cables or use the 3 pin with a 2 pin wall outlet adapter?


----------



## iFi audio

1974 said:


> So you guys at iFi are saying the amp doesn't shut off? Because when things get loud with my HE-6 headphones (which is admittedly hard to drive) my new iCan Pro amp absolutely shuts off, even after a few minutes of it being switched on. I assumed this was a safety feature, unless my amp is defective?
> 
> For the record, I haven't had this issue with the iCan Pro and my easier to drive headphones (LCD-2F, Denon 7k, etc).


 
  
 You need to take into account that especially higher settings of X-Bass cause very high power levels, more so if combined with high 3D settings. 
  
 Also, only one headphone should be connected at any time, with the exception of having two identical 6.3mm jack equipped headphones.
  
 If the iCAN Pro is clipping continuously/frequently the protection circuitry will eventually kick-in, as clipping with music is asymmetric and leads to what is in effect DC offset in the Output. It is DC that kills headphones (or speakers) when clipping. So the iCAN Pro moves to protect the headphones (not itself).
  
 As the clipping on the iCAN Pro is rather soft and recovery is instant clipping is not as audible as with some Solid-State headphone amplifiers and it is fairly easy to overdrive the Amplifier without noticing.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Anyone have a chance to compare the Pro to the Jotunheim? Shore, the Pro have tube feature, XBass, and 3D, which are all cool features, but $ for $, how the Jot fare against the Pro?
  
 Also, I think iFi will be at RMAF. Will there be an opportunity to compare the iCan SE to the iCan Pro? I hope so, as I've narrowed my next amp purchase down to the SE, the Pro, or the Jot (unless something cooler comes along . A balance iCan SE would be awesome, by the way (nudge nudge)


----------



## grizzlybeast

What ever happened to the review that was supposed to come out. 
Headfonics wants to review it. 
Wildcatsare - Kevin said he was gonna review it.


----------



## ufospls2

This is a fantastic little amp. I didn't try the tubes, but it drove the Abyss with authority. It was a bit sterile I thought, but perhaps that would be changed if I had tried the tubes. If anyone is in the market for a cheaper powerful amp, this would get my recommendation.


----------



## Allanmarcus

ufospls2 said:


> This is a fantastic little amp. I didn't try the tubes, but it drove the Abyss with authority. It was a bit sterile I thought, but perhaps that would be changed if I had tried the tubes. If anyone is in the market for a cheaper powerful amp, this would get my recommendation.


 
  
 $2200 is cheap?


----------



## ufospls2

allanmarcus said:


> $2200 is cheap?


 
 Well, I did say cheap-er.  Compared to the gear with similar high power output, yeah it is cheap(er).


----------



## Allanmarcus

ufospls2 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > $2200 is cheap?
> ...


 

 The used to be true, but now there is the Jotunheim, which must be causing the other HP amp manufacturers to scratch their heads


----------



## Topspin70

Wouldn't the Raggy be a closer comparison with the Pro? Admittedly there's still a price gap. But the two companies do have very different sonic signatures. Personal tastes will play a big part too.


----------



## ufospls2

allanmarcus said:


> The used to be true, but now there is the Jotunheim, which must be causing the other HP amp manufacturers to scratch their heads


 
 Well the Jotunheim only does what, 5watts max? Vs. the 14w max (I think) the iCan Pro does. I could be wrong and the Jotunheim has more power, but the 5 watt number rings a bell. They aren't really that comparable.
  
 The Mjolnir 2 and the iFi iCan Pro are more comparable as both have tube vs full solid state options (via the LISST tube thingies.) I listened to the Mjolnir 2 and the iFi iCan Pro back to back, and the iFi wiped the floor with the Mjolnir 2. It wasn't even close, the iFi was SO much better. Granted I was listening to the Mjolnir 2 with the stock tubes, not LISST SS tubes, and was listening to the iFi in SS mode. The Mjolnir might be better with better tubes, or with the LISST I don't know. I haven't heard the Jotunheim yet, but compared to the Schiit amps I have heard, I would go with the iFi every time.


----------



## Allanmarcus

ufospls2 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > The used to be true, but now there is the Jotunheim, which must be causing the other HP amp manufacturers to scratch their heads
> ...


 

 All good points. From what I've read, the general consensus is the Jodie is better then Mjolnir 2 SS. Hard to compare with good tubes. Of course the Pro will sound more tubey than the Jodie, that is expected. I'm just looking at SS vs SS.
  
 As for 14W vs 5W, what cans really need even 5W? What cans need 14W, except maybe the HE6. In most cases 5W is way overkill, let alone 14. The Rag, I believe has more than 14W into 16 Ohm and cost $1700 and does speakers. The Pro cost $2200, doesn't do speakers, but does tubes. I would say the Pro is price competitively, but not cheap.
  
 Maybe it will get some exposure at RMAF and start to get garner some interest. Maybe ifi will send out some review units to obvious folks. Maybe there will be something in the $800 range between the Pro and the SE - hopefully balanced. Under $500 is the new sweet spot for a balanced SS amp, and iFi should be able to compete there.


----------



## EVOLVIST

I don't know where you're getting $2,200 USD, because the iCAN Pro is $1695 USD. For what it does (a lot) in the hifi world, that's a bargain.


----------



## Allanmarcus

evolvist said:


> I don't know where you're getting $2,200 USD, because the iCAN Pro is $1695 USD. For what it does (a lot) in the hifi world, that's a bargain.




That is what I thought, but when I did some googling, I found it for $2200. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## EVOLVIST

allanmarcus said:


> That is what I thought, but when I did some googling, I found it for $2200. Thanks for the correction.




https://www.musicdirect.com/headphone-amp/ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amp


----------



## Allanmarcus

Ahh, I somehow was hitting canadian deals, $2200 CAN


----------



## Kenny Powers

grizzlybeast said:


> What ever happened to the review that was supposed to come out.
> Headfonics wants to review it.
> Wildcatsare - Kevin said he was gonna review it.


 
 Still waiting i guess? I cant wait to hear what they think about it.


----------



## wadi

When comparing amplifiers continuous power should be taken into consideration which is 4800 miliwatts @16 ohms for iCAN Pro in this case. It isn't clear either if it is per channel or both channels driven.


----------



## greenpsycho

I think its a bit unfair to compare a unit that just came out that you haven't heard to another unit that just came out that you also haven't heard, based solely on tech specs.
  
 I have the ifi ican pro and its great. For the price you could have 2 mjolnirs or 1 ragnarok and that right there should tell you something.


----------



## Allanmarcus

greenpsycho said:


> I think its a bit unfair to compare a unit that just came out that you haven't heard to another unit that just came out that you also haven't heard, based solely on tech specs.
> 
> I have the ifi ican pro and its great. For the price you could have 2 mjolnirs or 1 ragnarok and that right there should tell you something.




It tells me the rag is twice as expensive as the mjoinirs. Sorry, but what's your point?


----------



## greenpsycho

If your interested in something, get it, listen to it. That's the only way to tell. This guessing and virtual comparison does no one any good - just takes up space. There are plenty of people in this thread that say the ican pro is good. If you believe them and want to hear it for yourself, great.


----------



## rickyleelee

I don't afford the amr machines as they are way above euro10,000. and I heard at the local dealer here. the ifi stuff still has that analogue sign. other names you mention don't have that background and that is what think also makes a differer


----------



## Elawarai

I just bought this Headphone amp and it's still on burn but I already pretty love the sound. For the size, it's really a good deal.


----------



## ostewart

Just got one in for review, knocked up some XLR interconnects to hook it up to my Matrix Quattro II DAC so I can test it balanced with my Hifiman HE-500's.

So far I really like it, a lot. It has so much power. Also the size is perfect, it sits atop the Quattro II perfectly.


----------



## drwlf

1974 said:


> Has anyone compared it directly to the Ragnarok yet, which is at a similar price point?
> 
> Also, can anyone do the math on the balanced output wattage at 50ohms? Heard it drives the HE-6 real well, but would like to know the actual numbers.


 
  
 I'd like to hear more impressions with HE-6, and additionally, did your particular problem with HE-6 sorted?
  
 edit: *did you get it sorted


----------



## Allanmarcus

ostewart said:


> It has so much power. Also the size is perfect.




That's what she said


----------



## iFi audio

Hey everyone!
  
 We're thrilled to announce some exciting news regarding the Pro iCAN as well as what's to come of the Pro iDSD! 
  
 Make sure to check it out in the link HERE!


----------



## greenpsycho

I know this was touched on briefly, but I don't understand the point of having the volume knob control the volume level on the preamp out. I mean, this is supposed to be a high end headphone amp, which also has a bunch of preamp features in it, which seems crazy to me because it just doesn't seem to jive with the people that would actually be buying this thing.  At least I wish there was an option to have a line level output or volume controlled (I want to feed my balanced dac through this and then into my actual pre/pro which controls my sound)
  
 Rant over. I do quite like this thing, as it really makes all my headphones sing, just wish it wasn't trying to be multi-tasker


----------



## drwlf

greenpsycho said:


> I know this was touched on briefly, but I don't understand the point of having the volume knob control the volume level on the preamp out. I mean, this is supposed to be a high end headphone amp, which also has a bunch of preamp features in it, which seems crazy to me because it just doesn't seem to jive with the people that would actually be buying this thing.  At least I wish there was an option to have a line level output or volume controlled (I want to feed my balanced dac through this and then into my actual pre/pro which controls my sound)
> 
> Rant over. I do quite like this thing, as it really makes all my headphones sing, just wish it wasn't trying to be multi-tasker


 
  
 Mind sharing some impressions with the HE-6, as somebody had some problems with it, but you didn't?


----------



## greenpsycho

drwlf said:


> Mind sharing some impressions with the HE-6, as somebody had some problems with it, but you didn't?


 

 For clarification, there are a few people in this thread that have not had issues with the HE-6. There was only  1 issue, which appeared to be an electrical issue either in the house or with the unit, as it was purchased in the UK but used in the US:

  


> House electricity is solid. This unit is from the UK and I'm using it in the US, so the one thing I had to do was change the 3 pin power cable to a 2 pin power cable. Maybe that's the issue, I'll try some different cables or use the 3 pin with a 2 pin wall outlet adapter?


 
  
  
 As for myself, I don't feel as comfortable evaluating amps/pre-amps as much as other equipment because to me, the mark of a truly great amp or pre is that it doesn't sound like its there. DAC's and speakers are easy to compare because you can hear what is there and what isn't, but I'm pretty firmly on Team Neutral when it comes to amps, and I have a hard time explaining what isn't/shouldn't be there (this itself is hard for me to put eloquently into words)
  
 All that being said, my history with headamps include: magni2 uber, lyr2, ifi ican, soundblaster x7 (combo dac/amp but I've also used the line inputs to test it strictly from an amp perspective), ifi ican pro, naim dac v1 (combo unit i was testing). Not a huge fan of the schiits, and I got rid of those pretty quickly after I bought them. The ican non-pro has been driving my office rig consistently with my DT-990's, HE-400S's, HD 600's.  For about 15 minutes it even drove my HE-6's when I took delivery of them (it made sound out of them, but with everything CRANKED it just lacked authority).
  
 Setup consists of PS Audio Directstream Junior balanced out into ican pro into 4 pin balanced cable to HE-6.  I occasionally listen to my turntable through my pre/pro and into the ican pro using the rca inputs - works great, but I prefer listening to my vinyl through my speakers.  I also listen to movies (SE out from my XMC-1) late night through the headamp so it doesn't keep people up, and this pairs great with my DT-990's for some great action movie sound and explosions. I also tried the single ended into HE-6, but it just lacked that something special that the balanced offered (a bit of control, a bit of depth, maybe a bit of gusto - hard to put into words, I just prefer the balanced out to my HE-6's)
  
 As for the ican pro and the HE-6: its great. Granted, I've never compared it to anything else (just because I don't have access to anything else even remotely powerful enough for the HE-6). But I think I know how these monsters are supposed to sound, and the ican pro drives these with authority, control, and finesse. It is clearly the best headamp I have (I did a massive comparison a few weekends back with all my cans, and they all sound the best on the ican pro). 
  
 In terms of loudness, I keep the gain in the middle position, and the volume knob never goes past noon. But overall volume is just part of the story, and I find the ican pro deftly handles strong percussion, the earthquake lows and striking vocals without flinching. My go to test CD is this Chesky album (specifically track 23 and 29). I also threw in some Lemonade, Life after Deathstar, and Tennyson Like What.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO4YDe073TU&list=PLdZhik4dyFHr4kncCtr024E2IfP330dP2&index=23
  
 http://lifeafterdeathstar.net/
  
 https://soundcloud.com/tennysonmusic/likewhat
  
 I haven't really gotten into all the "features" of the amp like the 3D stuff or the different tubestates. I do use the Xbass at 10hz, which gives a lovely little bump for the HE-6's (haven't really tried out the other settings, just on cursory glance thought the 40hz was too much bottom end for my tastes.
  
 Downsides?  Don't like that the volume knob controls the preouts (only tested the balanced ones). Just wish it acted as a balanced pass through so I could fit this in between my DAC and pre/pro.  It gets warm, but not hot. Also the front panel is crowded and confusing. I know they want this to be the kitchen sink of headamps, but come on guys: who is running dual 3.5 or 6.3 jacks to get balanced to their headphones? and 3 pin balanced? for headphones? never seen it
  
  
  
  
 TLDR: tastes great, less filling
  
 If anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to answer to the best of my ability


----------



## grizzlybeast

what does tldr mean
  
 too long didnt read?
  
 what does that mean and why use it. Not being snarking but I really never understood it.


----------



## Allanmarcus

grizzlybeast said:


> what does tldr mean
> 
> too long didnt read?
> 
> what does that mean and why use it. Not being snarking but I really never understood it.


 

 It means the same thing as "summary" but the internet is too stupid to be able to spell that


----------



## grizzlybeast

greenpsycho said:


> drwlf said:
> 
> 
> > Mind sharing some impressions with the HE-6, as somebody had some problems with it, but you didn't?
> ...


 
 Actually this view is uncommon. To me its the DAC that should be most neutral. It is on the front line and is the star of the show. The DAC should tell it like it is and the amp should be able to tell you what you want. Traditionally this has been the case except for in the professional world but even then they have the EQ hardware after the DAC. The old hifi gear had tone controls after the Source. 
  
 Also since the amp is what handles the resistance and is where you have to match the power as well as where you can swap tubes it is less expected for the amp to be neutral. Lastly the headphone driver makes the biggest difference in sound, then the amp, then the DAC. The variance in the market is that way as well. 
  
 If you continue buying gear thinking the amp is the one to be neutral etc you will have a tough time finding the ideal amp.


----------



## greenpsycho

Duly noted. For a myriad of reasons I just don't agree with what you say. But lets keep this on topic and not get into a whole dac vs amp discussion


----------



## iFi audio

The Pro iCAN won't be alone for much longer...


----------



## Allanmarcus

ifi audio said:


> The Pro iCAN won't be alone for much longer...
> 
> ...


 
 Any chance you can post higher res photos?


----------



## grizzlybeast

There is a very thorough review of the ifi ican pro here
  
 http://hifiphilosophy.com/recenzja-ifi-pro-ican/
  
 but its in polish. Seems they recommend this amp very highly. They have experience with the rag, master 9 and more.


----------



## Allanmarcus

grizzlybeast said:


> There is a very thorough review of the ifi ican pro here
> 
> http://hifiphilosophy.com/recenzja-ifi-pro-ican/
> 
> but its in polish. Seems they recommend this amp very highly. They have experience with the rag, master 9 and more.




Same review as posted in post 22.

We're coming full circle with hunger for reviews.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Lol oh my bad sorry for that.

What sucks is that @wildcatsare said he was reviewing it a long time ago and still nothing. 

I wondet what happened.


----------



## Allanmarcus

So, how much would you pay for a speaker/electrostatic add on? In that small a package it's likely to be a class d amp, but they could surprise us. Not likely to be super powerful for speakers, maybe 20-50 W/channel. I'm thinking no more than $600


----------



## greenpsycho

allanmarcus said:


> So, how much would you pay for a speaker/electrostatic add on? In that small a package it's likely to be a class d amp, but they could surprise us. Not likely to be super powerful for speakers, maybe 20-50 W/channel. I'm thinking no more than $600


 

 I mean, if the ican pro is all class A (right?), and can put out like 14w with a bunch of added stuff in it, why couldn't the add on be class A and put out maybe 20-40'ish? I'm figuring they can make some extra room without all the knobs and plugs


----------



## Allanmarcus

I might have the wrong assumption. The energizer may not be an amp at all. It may be some sort on converter.


----------



## iFi audio

allanmarcus said:


> I might have the wrong assumption. The energizer may not be an amp at all. It may be some sort on converter.


 
  
*What is the Pro iEnergiser?*
An electrostatic headphone/earspeaker cannot be just connected to any headphone amplifier.
  
It needs power to 'energise' the panels, which is why there is a large five‑pin connector that looks like a valve seat along with headphone jack and XLR.
  
 The Pro iEnergiser needs very high voltage (Stax are around 100dB @ 100V, not 105dB @ 1V 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 On top of that they need a 'so-called bias voltage,' usually between 500V and 650V for modern ones.
  
 The iEnergiser that will be at RMAF will be this.
  

  
  

  

  
Yes, the top photo shows a nice vintage Stax being driven by the Pro iEnergiser!
  
The bottom is the KingSound electrostat!  Both sound very nice indeed. The vintage Stax is too rare to bring to RMAF. It is staying in the lab. The KingSound will be there though.


----------



## drwlf

greenpsycho said:


> For clarification, there are a few people in this thread that have not had issues with the HE-6. There was only  1 issue, which appeared to be an electrical issue either in the house or with the unit, as it was purchased in the UK but used in the US:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, the guy who had problems never got around posting in the thread, if he got the problems fixed or not.
  
  
 Otherwise, driving the HE-6, I'm wondering, is it the speaker-tap-like-great, which by veraciously some swear, or what's been said of Schiit Jotunheim-great


----------



## greenpsycho

drwlf said:


> Yeah, the guy who had problems never got around posting in the thread, if he got the problems fixed or not.
> 
> 
> Otherwise, driving the HE-6, I'm wondering, is it the speaker-tap-like-great, which by veraciously some swear, or what's been said of Schiit Jotunheim-great


 

 I wish I could help ya, but honestly, I don't have access to either: I sort of gave up on speaker amps a few years back and now just use my powered Stealth 8's (and probably will continue on this powered monitor bend for the future - I like how much it simplifies my system).  There are a bunch of cheap class D amps out right now that I could pick up and test with the HE-6, but....whats the point in that?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It just won't be better than the ican pro (though I'd love to be proven wrong)
  
 Of course if anyone in new england has something to compare to, I'd be down for a testing session


----------



## drwlf

greenpsycho said:


> I wish I could help ya, but honestly, I don't have access to either: I sort of gave up on speaker amps a few years back and now just use my powered Stealth 8's (and probably will continue on this powered monitor bend for the future - I like how much it simplifies my system).  There are a bunch of cheap class D amps out right now that I could pick up and test with the HE-6, but....whats the point in that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your input and impressions nonetheless! Perhaps we'll see more of those with the USA tour.


----------



## 1974

An update on my iCan Pro that I thought had an issue with the protection circuitry kicking in - there's nothing wrong with the amp, the problem was solved by updating my chain with better suited components. The amp was previously being fed with a temporary dac that's really designed to be a recording interface, which I discovered outputs a very hot signal. I updated to a better quality stand alone dac with line level outputs, and now the iCan Pro doesn't switch off even at extreme volume on the HE-6. Good times!


----------



## drwlf

1974 said:


> An update on my iCan Pro that I thought had an issue with the protection circuitry kicking in - there's nothing wrong with the amp, the problem was solved by updating my chain with better suited components. The amp was previously being fed with a temporary dac that's really designed to be a recording interface, which I discovered outputs a very hot signal. I updated to a better quality stand alone dac with line level outputs, and now the iCan Pro doesn't switch off even at extreme volume on the HE-6. Good times!


 
  
 Great to hear, and thanks for the update!


----------



## cav1sa

Hello friends,
  
 I'm sure most of you know by now what special type of beast the Pro iCan is. I don't have much prior experience with TOTL amps to add any insight of value to this discussion, so I'm not going to attempt reviewing the unit at length.
 Instead I'll just say this: I purchased it from Music Direct thinking I would try it out for a week or two, come to my senses and return it for a full refund. This, however never happened. I used it with Custom Art H8P, Audeze LCD2 and Adam F7 midfields. It allowed the headphones to shine brighter than ever before (metaphorically speaking of course, sound sig is not _bright_).
 At first I was disappointed with what I perceived as overly reserved 3d holo sound settings, but over time I realized they're superb - subtle enough to use on most albums (aside from Silence Yourself, perhaps). Another thing I realized is the 3d settings are useful for long listening sessions by making the sound more relaxed, less in-your-face. I also enjoy having 3 bass boost levels available, as I suspect they will come in handy if when I get some new cans. The ability to switch between SS, Tube+ and Tube is just too much. I love it.
  
 Unfortunately about a month ago the unit started malfunctioning, so I reached out to Music Direct to arrange an exchange. By that point I was well over my 60-day refund period, yet they *still *offered that option. I wasn't going to take them up on it, but I was pleasantly surprised by it to say the least.
 It took me another 3 weeks to ship the defective unit to them. *2 days later* I received a Fedex notification indicating the replacement was already on its way! Music Direct have been exceptionally responsive, courteous and professional. Big thanks to Brooke and everyone else at Music Direct. You guys rock!
  
 If you're on the fence about getting the Pro iCAN, I encourage you to get it from them; try it out for a bit and return it for a refund. Or not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS
 Almost forgot to mention - When I first started using the amp, I didn't immediately notice a huge improvement in SQ on the speakers, but something happened when I finally unplugged the unit to ship it for a replacement. The same monitors hooked up to a "plain" iDSD micro started sounding metallic, a bit harsh even, which really surprised me. It's fascinating how I slowly grew to appreciate the new sound signature, but when whatever made it special was removed from the loop, the perceived change was quite apparent.


----------



## technobear

cav1sa said:


> Almost forgot to mention - When I first started using the amp, I didn't immediately notice a huge improvement in SQ on the speakers, but something happened when I finally unplugged the unit to ship it for a replacement. The same monitors hooked up to a "plain" iDSD micro started sounding metallic, a bit harsh even, which really surprised me. It's fascinating how I slowly grew to appreciate the new sound signature, but when whatever made it special was removed from the loop, the perceived change was quite apparent.




Interesting. The micro iDSD really needs the iPurifier2 to lose that last ounce of edge and glare. 

I seem to recall iFi saying the Pro iCAN would have galvanic isolation on USB but I can't find any mention in this thread. I wonder if it will still benefit from the iPurifier2. It sounds like it maybe doesn't need it.


----------



## Cotnijoe

technobear said:


> Interesting. The micro iDSD really needs the iPurifier2 to lose that last ounce of edge and glare.
> 
> I seem to recall iFi saying the Pro iCAN would have galvanic isolation on USB but I can't find any mention in this thread. I wonder if it will still benefit from the iPurifier2. It sounds like it maybe doesn't need it.


 
  
 Pro iCAN doesn't have any digital component. I'm guessing you're talking about the upcoming Pro iDSD, which I think is mentioned to have the iUSB and iPurifier components built in.


----------



## technobear

cotnijoe said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. The micro iDSD really needs the iPurifier2 to lose that last ounce of edge and glare.
> ...




Of course it doesn't. Doh! :rolleyes: I've confused myself because cav1sa mentioned the micro iDSD as being used in place of Pro iCAN. In my defence, morning coffee hadn't yet kicked in 

So what DAC was being used with the Pro iCAN here? Was it the micro iDSD?

We already know that micro iCAN sounds better than micro iDSD headphone output so not surprising that Pro iCAN will also sound better.


----------



## cav1sa

technobear said:


> Of course it doesn't. Doh!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's precisely it - I think the iDSD is an excellent DAC with an impressive amp section, but there's no question Pro iCAN is a better amp.
 My replacement has just been delivered, it's already set up and I'm enjoying it so much. My setup right now is:
 Spotify (don't laugh, my file server crashed, so no foobar for a couple of days) -> iDSD Micro -> Pro iCan -> Adam F7 / LCD2 / HD650 (since my CIEMs are being upgraded)


----------



## iFi audio

cotnijoe said:


> Pro iCAN doesn't have any digital component. I'm guessing you're talking about the upcoming Pro iDSD, which I think is mentioned to have the iUSB and iPurifier components built in.


 
 To quickly confirm, Pro iCAN is fully analogue device.


----------



## defbear

Every time I type in iCAN, spellcheck corrects it to iDSD. Is The Machine trying to tell me something?


----------



## iFi audio

defbear said:


> Every time I type in iCAN, spellcheck corrects it to iDSD. Is The Machine trying to tell me something?


 
 Yes, you should have both


----------



## Allanmarcus

ifi audio said:


> cotnijoe said:
> 
> 
> > Pro iCAN doesn't have any digital component. I'm guessing you're talking about the upcoming Pro iDSD, which I think is mentioned to have the iUSB and iPurifier components built in.
> ...


 

 All the iCans are amps, not DACs. They are amplifiers. The 3D and bass boost are also analogue. There is no optical, USB, or Coax connection.


----------



## miceblue

ifi audio said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I might have the wrong assumption. The energizer may not be an amp at all. It may be some sort on converter.
> ...



I'll be bringing my STAX SR-207 to CanJam because of this. : o


----------



## abvolt

looks like a really cool amp sure like to hear one sometime..


----------



## iFi audio

That "small" electrostats ready project from our skunkworks directly? Finally it's here. Well... almost. You know the drill - teasers first, details later on. Bear with us, please 








Enjoy!


----------



## defbear

I bought the iCAN Pro (take that spellcheck) from Kitsune HiFi dot com. Brand new but had slight shipping damage. Loose Knob damaged in shipping. I would like to thank Tim at Kitsune and Owen from Ifi replacing the unit toot-suite. New unit in less than a week. I am one real fussy SOB when it comes to customer service. If I have a bad meal in a restaurant oh-well, but if the service is horrible that is an entirely different deal. Owen responded Quickly to all my emails. Tim made sure all went smoothly. Big fan of Kitsune and Ifi. So on to the Meal (snack)
 I'm no expert but I think I have heard and lived with some nice Gear. Master 11, Liquid Carbon, HDVD800, Bimby, Gumby. Holy Cow the iCAN Pro is a nice amp. I thought plugging my Holo Spring DAC Level 3 into the Master 11 was very special. But the iCAN Pro is on a whole upper level. Cleaner sound, far more detail, bigger soundstage in every direction. Did I say Far More Detail. I had started re-listening to my entire collection based on the Holo Spring DAC into the Master 11. Now I have to start all over.  The Bass boost control sounds great but is really not needed with my HD800's. I did not care for the 3D effect on the portable idsd. On the iDAC Pro it is utterly fantastic. It re-spaces the sound to appear you have a desktop, living room type placement. That is over-simplified. My Cavalli Liquid Carbon is a great amp. Love(d) it. But I tried it with the Holo Spring DAC and had to immediately put it away. I know, comparing $$ to $$$ isn't fair but the LC is no slouch at all. Lovely amp. Not selling it. I'm probably done for a while. I need to go someplace and try a big $10,000-$20,000 unit. But at this point I'm not sure how much better it can get.


----------



## grizzlybeast

That is good news. Finally some more relativity on the home front.


----------



## iFi audio

defbear said:


> I bought the iCAN Pro (take that spellcheck) from Kitsune HiFi dot com. Brand new but had slight shipping damage. Loose Knob damaged in shipping. I would like to thank Tim at Kitsune and Owen from Ifi replacing the unit toot-suite. New unit in less than a week. I am one real fussy SOB when it comes to customer service. If I have a bad meal in a restaurant oh-well, but if the service is horrible that is an entirely different deal. Owen responded Quickly to all my emails. Tim made sure all went smoothly. Big fan of Kitsune and Ifi. So on to the Meal (snack)
> I'm no expert but I think I have heard and lived with some nice Gear. Master 11, Liquid Carbon, HDVD800, Bimby, Gumby. Holy Cow the iCAN Pro is a nice amp. I thought plugging my Holo Spring DAC Level 3 into the Master 11 was very special. But the iCAN Pro is on a whole upper level. Cleaner sound, far more detail, bigger soundstage in every direction. Did I say Far More Detail. I had started re-listening to my entire collection based on the Holo Spring DAC into the Master 11. Now I have to start all over.  The Bass boost control sounds great but is really not needed with my HD800's. I did not care for the 3D effect on the portable idsd. On the iDAC Pro it is utterly fantastic. It re-spaces the sound to appear you have a desktop, living room type placement. That is over-simplified. My Cavalli Liquid Carbon is a great amp. Love(d) it. But I tried it with the Holo Spring DAC and had to immediately put it away. I know, comparing $$ to $$$ isn't fair but the LC is no slouch at all. Lovely amp. Not selling it. I'm probably done for a while. I need to go someplace and try a big $10,000-$20,000 unit. But at this point I'm not sure how much better it can get.


 
 defbear, thank you for this writing. We're happy that you like Pro iCan, apparently as much as we do


----------



## defbear

ifi audio said:


> defbear, thank you for this writing. We're happy that you like Pro iCan, apparently as much as we do


It's really Boss!

Awesome Possum! - Robin Henkel


----------



## iFi audio

FYI, in iFi Audio Pro line thread there's some RMAF coverage worth checking out!


----------



## Allanmarcus

Had a little time check out the new gear. It all sounded very good. I think I prefer the tube modes of the pro; the SS mode was a bit dry.


----------



## bluesaint

ifi audio said:


> FYI, in iFi Audio Pro line thread there's some RMAF coverage worth checking out!


 
 Looking that the pic, so the iDSD Pro will have USB3.0 input?


----------



## DC5Zilla

Super excited about the iDSD pro.  Great to know that it offers 3.5 TRRS balanced output...!
  
 If anyone can give feedback with ps1000 or lcd2, that will be lovely


----------



## miceblue

More photos and some impressions later, but for now:

[video]https://youtu.be/RBpNoSbyzwc[/video]


----------



## miceblue

This is pretty much copy-pasta from my RMAF post.

Whew, iFi Audio's booth was a fun visit. They had two tables, one with the classic iFi Audio products, and a second table with their new Pro series products. I was most interested in their iCAN ESL electrostatic energizer, and I brought with me the SR-207 to give it a listen.






Not bad, not bad at all! Usually e-stat energizer products have seemed more of a miss than a hit compared to full-on amplifiers. Energizers rely on an external power amplifier and step-up the voltage to the correct high-voltage bias (580 V for STAX's Pro bias). Uniquely, the iCAN ESL can accept inputs via speaker taps, 4-pin XLR, or...HDMI. What? HDMI? Yes, the same HDMI you use for a TV.

There are a _TON_ of customization options to toggle with on the Pro series products, actually maybe too much. The iDSD and iCAN Pro both have switches to toggle second-order harmonic distortion amount to emulate a tube sound as well as a gain switch; the iCAN Pro has X-Bass and 3D/Crossfeed toggles; the iCAN ESL has an e-stat bias selector, e-stat output selector, input-source selector, as well as an output impedance(?) selector for the regular XLR output. It's pretty confusing, but all I needed to do is select the 580 V bias on the e-stat bias selector, and adjust the volume accordingly.

The second-order harmonic distortion/tube emulator actually sounds pretty nice. At first they were toggled on and I was noticing the SR-207 to sound warmer than I remember. Then I toggled them off and it sounded more like the SR-207 I know. Sound quality-wise the iCAN ESL was more dynamic than my SRM-252S, and it had a blacker background as to make instrument separation more apparent. That being said, I don't know how much of the sound was attributed to the iCAN Pro since the ESL was using the special HDMI input from it. I'd be interested in giving the iCAN ESL a listen with a less synergistic setup.

It was kind of funny when I was at the iFi booth. I was listening to the iCAN ESL with the SR-207 and iFi Audio representatives from Japan happened to visit. They seemed surprised that an actual STAX headphone was being used with the iCAN ESL. Actually, a good handful of people were surprised to see a non-SR-007/009 STAX headphone at all, including the iFi representatives themselves.

I've always liked how iFi Audio and their Skunkwork Laboratories are constantly creating products that would otherwise be really niche for a more affordable price, while looking really pretty and fully-functional. Talking to Vincent at the iFi booth, it was interesting getting to know a little more about their octopus mascot for 8x (octa) DSD, or 512 MHz sampling rates. I'll have to try up-sampling Daft Punk's "Derezzed" song to DSD512 some day!


Anyway, here's a video of Cotnijoe explaining the Pro series stack.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBpNoSbyzwc[/video]


----------



## EVOLVIST

miceblue said:


> This is pretty much copy-pasta from my RMAF post.
> 
> Whew, iFi Audio's booth was a fun visit. They had two tables, one with the classic iFi Audio products, and a second table with their new Pro series products. I was most interested in their iCAN ESL electrostatic energizer, and I brought with me the SR-207 to give it a listen.
> 
> ...




Do you remember anything about the specs of the iDSD Pro?


----------



## miceblue

evolvist said:


> Do you remember anything about the specs of the iDSD Pro?



I wasn't told any specs for it since it, and the iCAN ESL, were essentially last-minute, brand-spanking-new products. They had a cheat-sheet with some of the specs, but I didn't look through them unfortunately.

They're still working on the 2 units, so things can change.


----------



## technobear

They aren't tube emulators. There's actual tubes in there.

It isn't HDMI either. No digital circuitry in the Pro iCAN or the Energiser.


----------



## miceblue

technobear said:


> They aren't tube emulators. There's actual tubes in there.
> 
> It isn't HDMI either. No digital circuitry in the Pro iCAN or the Energiser.



Ah, you're right about that. Thanks for the correction!

And I think it's an HDMI connector, but not necessarily the typical digital interface.


----------



## iFi audio

miceblue said:


> Ah, you're right about that. Thanks for the correction!
> 
> And I think it's an HDMI connector, but not necessarily the typical digital interface.


 
 Pro iCAN is equipped with an actual tube circuit, based on classic Pro-Audio design. The switch selects a J-Fet first stage (solid state), Tube first stage and if the tube is enabled, it is possible to reduce the negative feedback.
  
 Reduced negative feedback trades off an increase in low order harmonics for improved transient response (objective) and some hard to define in objective measurement terms, "improved musicality". 
  
 This "improved musicality" is not a result of the increased low order harmonics, instead the increase in low order harmonics is a result of the decreased feedback.


----------



## LoganRoss

Hi IFI Audio,
  
 I am about to order a pro and I have some questions (and perhaps some of these can be added to your support FAQ):
  
 1) I noticed your specs seem to reference "short duration" peak power rather than continuous power. What is the actual normal use power rating? For 200ohm headphones?  Is it adapting (such as by impedance matching), based on the headphone connected?
  
 2) Many higher end headphone amps have a lower output impedance, often 3, or even less than 1. The IC pro has a much higher one. what is the reason/benefit of this design? As a result, should only headphones of a specific ohm rating be used? How about for optimal performance?
  
 3) The detailed specs do not discuss use of an output transformer.  Is this a unique design? it would great to understand the innovation. Is it something similar to the Chord Mojo's gain stage (conceptually)?
  
 4) What is the impact of using a non balanced source? Do you still get the benefit of balanced output, or does half the circuit (including the corresponding power) go unused as is the case with some other amps?  Currently, my favorite DAC is the Chord Mojo.
  
 5) Most other amps seem to require lots of power and use a giant desktop PC style power cord, perhaps to have a heavy enough gauge and shielding in order to avoid noise and interference. What is the technology that enables the pro to avoid these issues/requirements and use a small cord and wallwart (a great thing by the way)?
  
 6) I noticed you spec JFets rather than the more commonly used Mosfets. What is the difference?
  
 7) the description references that 3d sound and xbass are implemented in an analog manner. When these are switched off, are the related sections of the amp circuit physically bypassed, or is there some processing taking place all of the time?
  
 8) Do you have frequency response charts? The lower registers are very important to me and I am curious as to performance in that area.
  
 9) Your advertising materials highlight that ifi products leverage technology from the higher end AMR line of products. In the case of the ican pro amp, what are some of the technology that has trickled down?
  
 10) Many amplifiers, including headphone amps, are really heavy. Presumably because parts, like transformers and heat sinks, are necessary for great sound. However, technology (and corresponding miniaturization) marches on. What technologies are responsible for your ability to keep the size and weight so low?
  
 11) Do you consider the ifi ican pro to be in the same tier as the Audeze King?  In other words, what segment of the personal audio market is the pro directed to?  Performance is relative, and it would be interesting to understand against whom you benchmark.
  
 12) Were the published specs based on tube, tube plus, or solid state mode? Assuming only one of these, how do the specs change for the other modes?
  
 Really impressed so far with the potential of this product.  Thank you for your time and I look forward to your answers as well as actual listening tests.


----------



## EVOLVIST

allanmarcus said:


> Had a little time check out the new gear. It all sounded very good. I think I prefer the tube modes of the pro; the SS mode was a bit dry.




Did you get to check out any of the specs for the iDSD Pro?


----------



## Allanmarcus

Nope. Sorry.


----------



## iFi audio

loganross said:


> Hi IFI Audio,
> 
> I am about to order a pro and I have some questions (and perhaps some of these can be added to your support FAQ):
> 
> ...


 
 Lots of cool questions. We'll address them shortly, one by one. Stay tuned!


----------



## EVOLVIST

loganross said:


> 5) Most other amps seem to require lots of power and use a giant desktop PC style power cord, perhaps to have a heavy enough gauge and shielding in order to avoid noise and interference. What is the technology that enables the pro to avoid these issues/requirements and use a small cord and wallwart (a great thing by the way)?




You know, iFi makes some great switching power supplies that sounds great with iFi gear, but I've been wondering for a while now why DAC and amp manufacturers don't just go with switching DC power supplies, instead of straight AC cables, and let the owner decide what's best for the gear.

I'm other words, even if you don't care for the switching power supply that iFi gives you, you can always go with linear power supply, "audiophile," or otherwise, which might be a little pricy, but much less so than these "ultimate" power cords that are foisted on us from all sides. 

A case in point, my microRendu benefited from a linear power supply, at around $400 USD, but other gear, like some of my iFi stuff sounded just fine with the iPower that comes with it. There's the tempation to try linear power supplies with the iFi stuff, and I might just yet, but as a business model, I think the switching power supplies are the way to go. I'm sure it would cut down on some of those snake oil cable companies (though everyine has a right to make a living).


----------



## LoganRoss

ifi audio said:


> Lots of cool questions. We'll address them shortly, one by one. Stay tuned!




Thanks. Also, one more question:

12) Were the published specs recorded in tube, tube plus, or solid state mode? Assuming only one of the above, how the the specs change in the other modes?


----------



## LoganRoss

Hi IFI Audio,
 I wanted to follow up on the questions below. Note that I have consolidated posts, thus there is now a question #12.  Thanks!
  
  
 Quote:


loganross said:


> Hi IFI Audio,
> 
> I am about to order a pro and I have some questions (and perhaps some of these can be added to your support FAQ):
> 
> ...


----------



## LoganRoss

Here is a bump - hoping for IFI Audio to provide the promised responses to the previous questions


----------



## iFi audio

loganross said:


> Here is a bump - hoping for IFI Audio to provide the promised responses to the previous questions


 
  
 Cor blimey! Loads of questions...this is gonna eat into pub time….
  
  
  
*Q#1A: I noticed your specs seem to reference 'short duration' peak power rather than continuous power. *
  
 Music has a relatively high so-called ‘crest factor’ or ratio between peaks and average power, usually 10:1 – meaning for music mainly looking at the ‘peak power’ is somewhat relevant. Sine-waves as used for equipment objective testing have a peak to average ratio of 1.414:1, meaning they stress equipment greatly and may create overheating.
  
*Comparison of Sinewave & Music Crest Factor*
  

 The iCAN Pro omits any protection circuitry that is directly connected to the audio path, as this often causes sonic degradation. To avoid a risk of blowing out the output stage in case of overload (which may occur with sinewave testing) we have integrated current limiting circuitry into the power supply.

 This circuitry allows short term unrestricted peaks, but will progressively limit available current to protect the device based on temperature and clipping of the amplifier, all the way to an eventual complete shut-down of the iCAN Pro if overload is sustained, to avoid damage to either iCAN Pro or headphone.
  
  
  
*Q#1B: What is the actual normal use power rating? For 200ohm headphones?  Is it adapting (such as by impedance matching), based on the headphone connected?*

 Power = Voltage X Current.
  
 Voltage directly proportional to the input signal is what almost all amplifiers deliver (exceptions exist), current flowing is determined by the load.

 Even if the amplifier is unconventional (e.g. current output types), the actual power is always dependent on the load (Headphone/Speaker) impedance. This applies to any amplifier of the ‘voltage output’ and ‘current output’ type.
  
 In theory it would be possible to design an amplifier that delivers constant output power regardless of load impedance, but there is at this point in time no known headphone that would actually show any benefit from such a design.
  
*Too low or too high load impedance both result in max output power allowed with that particular load lower than the absolute max capable by that amplifier.*
  

  
 For the iCAN Pro the power supply voltages to output stages limit the output voltage to 11.5V for single ended headphones and 23V for balanced headphones. The long term current limit for the iCAN Pro is around 1A peak per channel, which means with sinewave testing around 700mA is available, which in case of the balanced connection is shared between the signal phases.
  
 Short term current can be much higher, the absolute maximum is certainly more than 7000mA for several milliseconds; it is not the easiest number to measure.

 All this means the maximum long term sustained power with sinewaves with balanced connections will be 8,000mW into a 64 Ohm load and for single-ended connections it will be the same 8,000mW with a 16 ohm load for maximum power.

 For short term peaks the main limitation is the length of the peak, we test with music that has relatively long, high level peaks at clipping to determine the equivalent sine-wave power.

 For lower load impedances than those stated above the power will be limited by available current, for higher impedances it will be limited by available voltage. It should be noted that this behaviour is not unique to the iCAN Pro but applies actually to each and any amplifier under the sun.

 Finally, if using 200 ohm headphones the power is limited by available voltage only (again, this happens with all amplifiers) so you would get around 660mW with a single-ended connection and around 2,640mW for balanced connection.

 As most headphones tend to deliver > 100dB/mW SPL these power levels are insanely high, basically like driving a high-sensitivity horn speaker like AvantGarde with amplifiers having a kilowatt or more power!
  
 If the 200 ohm headphone was 100dB/mW the single-ended connection would produce 128dB at full power and the balanced connection would produce 134dB at full power. These are extremely high SPLs and permanent hearing damage is a real danger at SPL levels this high.

 Very few headphones will ever require even a small fraction of the power available from the iCAN Pro, having such large extra reserves allows it however to for example drive very inefficient headphones such as HiFiman HE-6 or AKG K-1000 with authority.
  
*Carpe diem with these hungry headphones *


----------



## LoganRoss

Dear IFI Audio,
  
 All I can say is wow.  That is a wonderfully thoughtful response.  I now understand the dynamic between my headphones and my amp.  You have also provided information in a way that lets me cut through the marketing speak when trying to make an intelligent decision between two pieces of equipment.
  
 As an aside, I am bummed I didn't get get picked to review the IFI Audio pro, but I did buy my own   As you continue answering the questions, I will incorporate what I learn into my assessment and provide you with feedback.  Actually having the Pro brings a new perspective on my questions, so I may edit them along the way.
  
 So you are aware, I am experimenting with the Pro as a standalone headphone amplifier and as a pre-amp to my all tube amplifier.  Why would I do that?  Because even if I am using an alternative amp, I want to leverage the excellent lower xbass and 3D sound features, both of which I really appreciate already.
  
 There's more to come from my end, so I thank you for making this an interactive thread!!!
  
 LR


----------



## GHoldridge

So does the x-bass effect line outputs to say some speakers? I know the 3d does and they say for headphones/speakers, but seeing how the headphone amp part is different from the line out. I just wanted to make sure since I just grabbed a demo unit from music direct which I'm still waiting for.


----------



## LoganRoss

This is correct. See the IFI website for details.


----------



## LoganRoss

Dear IFI,
We are hoping you can provide answers to the other questions. Thanks in advance!


----------



## iFi audio

*Q#2: Many higher end headphone amps have a lower output impedance, often 3, or even less than 1. The IC pro has a much higher one. what is the reason/benefit of this design? As a result, should only headphones of a specific ohm rating be used? How about for optimal performance?*

 The iCAN Pro has relatively low output impedance. So we're not sure where you get the impression the output impedance is high?
  
*Unmatched impedances provide the best amplifier and speaker performance.*
  

  
 The precise value depends on the connection (balanced connection has double the impedance of single-ended and the 3.5mm connections include a network to match high sensitivity IEM's, but the maximum output impedance for any connection is around 4 ohms balanced or 2 ohms unbalanced.
  
  
  
*Q#3B: The detailed specs do not discuss use of an output transformer. *
  
 Output transformers are mainly used with tube amplifiers. They require great care in design and manufacturing to avoid adding distortion and frequency response limitations. Where they are essential, they must be used and designing good ones is no small task.
  
*Impedance matching transformer matches 5000 **Ω** amplifier to 8 **Ω** speaker for maximum efficiency.*
  

  
 The Retro Stereo 50 Amplifier uses a full classic EL-84 tube amplifier and hence an output transformer is required. No off-the shelf item offered adequate performance, regardless of price, so we developed our own. In the end, we went through 20 prototypes before we had an output transformer that delivered the combination of objective measured performance we required and the quality of subjective performance listening to music we desired.


----------



## LoganRoss

Hello.  Thank you for your response.  A couple of follow-ups:
  
 Q2:  I have read (I am no expert), that there is something called a damping factor for impedance matching of amplifier to transducer, and that typically you want the impedance of your transducer to be at least 8x the impedance of the amplifier.  For the Ican Pro, the only spec previously available to me shows an impedance of 16ohm for both single ended and balanced.  Is this an error on the iFI product page, as this may be where my confusion was.  If the output impedance was 16 ohms and you want at least an 8x damping factor, then a match with headphones having a much lower impedance than my 200ohm LCD-4s would not have been an ideal match.  Again, I am asking because I am new to this, and you have corrected my assumption regarding output impedance, so thank you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Q3: Thank you.  This is very helpful.  In fact, my other amp is a Woo Audio.  The biggest issue I have with the Woo is the frequency response dip below 50hz or so.  I do have a question: I notice other solid state amplifier manufacturers bragging about having big over-sized transformers.  Based on your comments above, it sounds like perhaps the transformers they speak of are not "output" transformers?
  
 Retro:  The Retro looks really cool.  I will research it.
  
  
 LR


----------



## LoganRoss

iFI iCan Pro evaluation update.
  
 Hi.  This is not intended to be a review, but just some random thoughts after 6 days with the Pro.  It is an impressive piece of equipment.  The reason I say this is because of the functions it performs: 1) headphone amp; 2) pre-amp; and 3) bass and spatial enhancer.
  
 I am going to work backwards:
  
 XBASS AND 3D SPATIAL ENHANCER:  Simply put, a lot of music is made more fatiguing by the single ear (left or right only) effect.  I find that the 3D technology does an exceptional job of alleviating this fatigue and does so without making itself obvious.  The Bass enhancement, especially at the 10hz setting, can do a really good job of bumping up bass to make the music feel a little more speaker like.  Of course, this is only for some genres, as for others, it is not necessary.  I do wish xbass  settings were slightly more granular. Rather than a 9+ db bump, increments of 5 might have been more desirable.  
  
 PRE-AMP *(Edited on 10/22/16 - 8:45am PT)*:  This is tied to "Bass and Spatial Enhancer".  I have an all tube HP amplifier.  At times, I find that those two features (in pre-amp mode), coupled with the separate tube amplifier, give me another option for creating the sound I want. I did just realize that the HP and line outs use slightly different 3D circuits. Thus, using a separate amp for headphones may not be ideal if you are also going to use the 3D spatial enhancer.
  
 HP AMPLIFIER *(Edited on 10/22/16 - 8:45am PT)*:  I am finding my experience to be quite interesting.  Its more of a question of me adapting to a slightly different sound signature. I generally find SS HP amplifiers to be to harsh and fatiguing when using headphones.  For some genres like old school hip hop, I can get by due to their match with certain qualities SS excels at.  But generally speaking, I prefer to lop off any top-end harshness. You are probably saying, "no problem since the Pro has both tube and tube+ mode".  I agree, but I am still experimenting with those modes, and the amp still needs "break in" time.  For one thing, I am still getting used to the Pro, and that causes me to always want to compare it against my other amp, a Woo Audio.  For example, I really like the dimensionality of the Woo.  Specifically, if you consider the re-creation of a recording in three dimensions (up-down; left-right; and front-back), I find that the Woo amp excels in all three.  The Pro excels in left-right and up-down, but less so in front-back.  In addition, when comparing tube modes of the two amplifiers, as of now, there is heft and texture on the Woo that isn't always as present on the Pro. It adds some realism (i.e., it seeming less like a recording, and more like a live performance). _ _That said, the more time I spend with the Pro, the more its sound signature grows on me.
  
_PRELIMINARY OBSERVATIONS _*(Newly added on 10/22/16 - 8:45am PT)*:_ What I am finding, including after a long listening session last night, is that you can't spend all your time doing A/B comparisons because each amplifier brings its own strengths to the table.  _ There is no question that the pro is an extreme quality amplifier.  Even after only one week of listening, its obvious that it excels in terms of potency, clarity, and detail.  I am also beginning to understand the power of being able to tune the sound, not just to a singular taste, but more importantly, based on the recording. No two recordings are alike.  No two genres are identical.  In either case, there are a ton of variables. The key of the Pro, is the ability to adapt to them. I make no final conclusions here, just some preliminary observations, which of course, are particular to my specific preferences


----------



## iFi audio

loganross said:


> Q2:  I have read (I am no expert), that there is something called a damping factor for impedance matching of amplifier to transducer, and that typically you want the impedance of your transducer to be at least 8x the impedance of the amplifier.  For the Ican Pro, the only spec previously available to me shows an impedance of 16ohm for both single ended and balanced.  Is this an error on the iFI product page, as this may be where my confusion was.  If the output impedance was 16 ohms and you want at least an 8x damping factor, then a match with headphones having a much lower impedance than my 200ohm LCD-4s would not have been an ideal match.  Again, I am asking because I am new to this, and you have corrected my assumption regarding output impedance, so thank you.


 
 This specification is NOT the output impedance but the lowest recommended headphone Impedance. We do not specifically list any impedance as between single-ended and balanced outputs both iEMatched on 3.5mm jacks and direct on 6.3mm & balanced jacks there are many actual numbers.
  


loganross said:


> I do have a question: I notice other solid state amplifier manufacturers bragging about having big over-sized transformers.  Based on your comments above, it sounds like perhaps the transformers they speak of are not "output" transformers?


 
 No, they usually talk of their mains/power transformers. Output transformers are extremely rare in solid state gear.
  
 Incidentally, the power-supplies in iFi gear operate using high frequencies, for the pro line it is 1.2MHz, or 10,000 times faster than 120Hz mains. This also means that capacitors, transformers and filter chokes can be 1/10,000 the size/value one would need for 120Hz mains powered systems. 
  
 Given that our parts are not 1/10,000 the size/value but closer to 1:100, one might say that our power supply components are generally oversized by a factor of around 100 over common "best practice"


----------



## LoganRoss

Thanks for the clarifications. Regarding the impedance question, I now understand. It might be helpful to clarify this on your website spec sheet. Regarding output transformers, I also now understand and thank you for your patience in explaining this.  
  
 Regarding power, I think you are saying that using more sophisticated power components, such as higher frequency, enables you to reduce physical size? I forget whether my original set of 12 questions included one on power, but any thoughts you have on the benefits of the pro line power configuration would be welcome.
  
 As an FYI, I have amended my preliminary observations after a long and studious listening session last evening.


----------



## iFi audio

loganross said:


> Thanks for the clarifications. Regarding the impedance question, I now understand. It might be helpful to clarify this on your website spec sheet. Regarding output transformers, I also now understand and thank you for your patience in explaining this.
> 
> Regarding power, I think you are saying that using more sophisticated power components, such as higher frequency, enables you to reduce physical size? I forget whether my original set of 12 questions included one on power, but any thoughts you have on the benefits of the pro line power configuration would be welcome.
> 
> As an FYI, I have amended my preliminary observations after a long and studious listening session last evening.


 
 Not a problem. For now, let's stick to your original questions (in order to avoid mess) and once we're done with these, please do get back with any other that will afloat along the road. Perhaps we'll be able to address those as well, who knows


----------



## LoganRoss

Dear iFi,
Can you clarify the frequency of answers you will provide to the original 12 questions? We are hoping it will not be 1 per week ☺ But also, thank you for the amazing effort put into the answers.


----------



## GHoldridge

I had a question..since Ifi says not to mix headphones, and speaker. Is turning off a speaker enough or do you have to disconnect the cables? Not sure how the 3d sensing circuit works. Oh I wanted to add that I finally got my demo Ican pro and immediate impressions to my idac2 + Ican + itube was more clarity open.. it was noticeable to me. I do wish though the remote was metal. Yea a few more functions on the remote wouldn't hurt (on/off, mute), but it's the build quality of the remote that just doesn't seem to live up to ifi audio's other products. I'm definitely not sending this back I'm really enjoying it


----------



## Allanmarcus

gholdridge said:


> I had a question..since Ifi says not to mix headphones, and speaker. Is turning off a speaker enough or do you have to disconnect the cables? Not sure how the 3d sensing circuit works. Oh I wanted to add that I finally got my demo Ican pro and immediate impressions to my idac2 + Ican + itube was more clarity open.. it was noticeable to me. I do wish though the remote was metal. Yea a few more functions on the remote wouldn't hurt (on/off, mute), but it's the build quality of the remote that just doesn't seem to live up to ifi audio's other products. I'm definitely not sending this back I'm really enjoying it


 

 Interesting question. Generally just unplugging the headphones and turning on the speaker amp is sufficient, or the reverse for headphone use. 
  


> There are two separate Analogue Signal Processing (ASP) matrix circuits that switch automatically between headphone and loudspeaker use.
> Note: When using the headphone outputs, the Holographic matrix for headphones is engaged. When using the line outputs (RCA/XLR), the Holographic matrix for loudspeakers is engaged.


 
  
 This implies the iCan "knows" if the headphone are being used. Maybe knows based on resistance.


----------



## iFi audio

*Q#3B: Is this a unique design? it would great to understand the innovation. Is it something similar to the XXXXX gain stage (conceptually)? *

 The circuitry in the iCAN Pro is quite unique. It is not a cookie cutter, cut & paste from some textbook or a manufacturer’s design note. With the greatest respect to others, conceptually it has no parallels – except in classic professional studio equipment using tubes, like for example from the legendary R.E.D.D.37 & 51 tube recording consoles.
  
*REDD.51 tube recording console, Studio Two/Abbey Road*
  

  
 However, the circuitry is not a mere rehash of the best classic British or German studio gear either.
  
 All tube circuits have their own challenges, so we use the tube where it makes the _greatest difference_, in the first stage, though it may be switched out for a J-Fet instead for a completely solid-state circuit path.
  
 The tube or J-Fet is followed by a second fully discrete gain stage using a combination of bipolar transistors and mosfet selected and operated to achieve very specific goals in terms of linearity, gain etc.

 The result is a circuit that very much behaves like a modernised, transformer-less and direct-coupled version of classic recording gear. So much of the common sonic colouration traits found elsewhere from coupling capacitors and transformers do not exist in the Pro iCAN.

  
*Q#6:  I noticed you spec JFets rather than the more commonly used Mosfets. What is the difference?*

 As for tube vs. J-Fet vs. mosfet vs. bipolar transistor, these are all different amplification devices. They have all different parameters and all are subject to limitations and have undesirable traits. No device is ideal for all applications or uses. One of the key skills of a good design is to select the right device for the right application.
  
  
*A Short History of Amplification Euphoria*
  
         * 1. The tube*
  
 Of these four active devices we have available, the tube is the oldest and is now over a century old.
  
*Lee de Forest, the father of the radio, invented the ‘Audion’ tube **–** the first electronic amplifier device in 1906 *



 Among the very desirable traits of tubes are a very high input impedance, a high level of inherent linearity for a given gain, the fact that the tube is a depletion device (it produces the highest current it can with 0V between input and common terminal) which allows simpler circuits and the fact that all parasitic (unwanted) effect are essentially constant with signal level and frequency.

 The downside is relatively low absolute gain, a high internal impedance combined with a low current capacity and the need for very high voltages to operate, as well as the need to provide extra power to heat up the cathode to a dull red glow temperature. As a result, tube equipment has mostly disappeared from common use, yet especially for input stages they are often still without equal.

*The iCAN Pro uses genuine USA made General Electric New Old Stock Tubes *
  

   

*          2. The J-Fet*
  
 Perhaps surprisingly the J-Fet is the second oldest amplification device and the first solid-state amplification device. It was patented in 1926 by Julius Lilienfeld and he put a working theory of operation in place by the mid-1930’s.


  
*The 1926 J-Fet Patent *

 While not actually a tube, interestingly, the J-Fet shares many traits with it.
  
 It has a very high input impedance, a moderate level of inherent linearity for a given gain, the fact that the J-Fet is a depletion device (it produces the highest current it can with 0V between input and common terminal) which allows simpler circuits and the fact that if enough voltage is applied all parasitic (unwanted) effect are essentially constant with signal level and frequency.

 The downside is merely moderate gain, a high internal impedance combined with a low current capacity and the need for relatively high voltages to operate. Like tubes, J-Fets are often used in Input stages and while they do not equal tubes, if applied correctly they can come quite close. Compared to generic transistors (Bipolar and Mosfet) J-Fets are difficult to make, have a process that is variable and requires selection and cost is around 100 times that of Mosfets and Bipolar Transistors.
  
  
*        3. The Bipolar Junction Transistor*
  
 In 1948 William Shockley invented the Bipolar Junction Transistor which rapidly became the device of choice for modern electronics and for three decades remained the device of choice in the design of discrete and integrated circuits.
  
 Electronics rapidly became miniaturised and energy efficient. Instead of the huge, hot running wooden tube radios there were battery powered pocket radios that could drive headphones and could be certainly carried everywhere. Portable audio became possible with the bipolar transistor. Nowadays, the use of the BJT has declined in favour of MOS(fet) technology in the design of most circuits and IC's.

*Replica of the first functional bipolar transistor from 1947 *


  
 Compared to tube and J-Fet, the Bipolar Transistor was a radical departure and practical electronics had to be nearly re-invented to suit it. The bipolar transistor is actually a current driven device, meaning it has a low input impedance and it is an enhancement device (meaning it passes no current with 0V between input and common terminal, requiring more complex circuitry. Parasitic effects are wide and varied and all are highly signal level and frequency dependent and linearity is quite poor.

 However bipolar transistors can handle much higher currents than Tubes or J-Fets, work well with very low voltages, are easy to manufacture with good consistency and at very low cost, so they displaced tubes and J-Fets could barely carve out a niche where bipolar transistors could just not work well.
  
  
*          4. The Mosfet*
  
 The newest amplification device is the Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor a.k.a. Mosfet. Invented in 1960 it was meant to displace the bipolar transistor by giving a device that worked much like a bipolar transistor but with high input impedance.

*The 1963 Mosfet Patent *
  

  
 Problems in manufacturing initially caused higher cost and it was a long time before Mosfets became viable alternatives as linear (audio etc.) amplifiers to the J-Fet and Bipolar transistor. It was however discovered that Mosfets could be made very small and that they made good switches, which drove the revolution in digital integrated circuits and in the end led to modern computers which use chips that combine literally millions of tiny, tiny Mosfets to form the logic.

 As a linear amplifier the Mosfet does less well, even in the 21st century, very few types are particularly suitable for the job. Operated at low voltages, the Mosfet has high input resistance but very high and signal variable input capacitance which causes a very specific type frequency dependent distortion that rises with frequency a lot more than bipolar transistors. Linearity is also quite poor, but the more modern types have huge levels of gain allowing very large amounts of negative feedback to be used to overcome the non-linearity.

 There you have it, a brief rundown of each amplification device and the pros and cons – as you can gather, in the end no device is perfect and using the right device for the right job in the right circuit can give an excellent outcome. Get it wrong and the results are dire
  
 Stay tuned for more!


----------



## AxelCloris

I was playing around with the Pro iCan at the office yesterday and as it turns out that it has a rather photogenic face.
  

 http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/1108302/ifi-pro-ican/


----------



## LoganRoss

Hi,
 As always.  Thanks for the amazing detail you are providing.  A follow-up question:
  
 You provided an amazing description of the concept you followed for both tube and solid state.  Where does Tube+ fit in?  Does it use both the jfet and tube?  Is is an analog DSP effect applied to the tube or the jfet circuit?  In other words, what is the intent of tube+?  I did read your main description on the website, but I still don't understand the interplay with "feedback",  how it should be used, or under what circumstances I should pick between SS, tube, and tube+.
  
  
 BTW, I hope you can get to the questions about balanced inputs. The question is within the original 12, but I would like to know whether I am compromising sound using unbalanced input with balanced outputs.


----------



## technobear

loganross said:


> Where does Tube+ fit in?






ifi audio said:


> Pro iCAN is equipped with an actual tube circuit, based on classic Pro-Audio design. The switch selects a J-Fet first stage (solid state), Tube first stage and *if the tube is enabled, it is possible to reduce the negative feedback*.
> 
> Reduced negative feedback trades off an increase in low order harmonics for improved transient response (objective) and some hard to define in objective measurement terms, "improved musicality".
> 
> This "improved musicality" is not a result of the increased low order harmonics, instead the increase in low order harmonics is a result of the decreased feedback.




OK, not obvious to the uninitiated but the bit in bold is referring to Tube+.


----------



## LoganRoss

Not obvious to the uninitiated, but the purpose of this thread is to go deeper than website descriptions and marketing.......


----------



## iFi audio

*Q#4: What is the impact of using a non-balanced source? Do you still get the benefit of balanced output, or does half the circuit (including the corresponding power) go unused as is the case with some other amps? *

 If an unbalanced source is used, the iCAN Pro includes a circuit that creates an inverted replica of the signal so after this circuit the signal has been transformed to balanced signal. This uses a very minimalist non-feedback circuit composed out of J-Fets and Bipolar transistors. After this circuit the signal is amplified fully-balanced.

*iCAN Pro signal path *
  

  
 If the headphone uses unbalanced wiring, the circuit actually has no additional stages, that is the single-ended signal is used as the positive half of the balanced circuit but also forms in effect the single-ended signal path.

 In order to take advantage of the balanced circuit, headphones require balanced wiring. In this case and with a true balanced source (such as the upcoming iDSD Pro) the signal remains fully balanced from the DAC Chip to the headphone with no added unnecessary stages. Only for a single-ended signal does the circuit create a balanced signal from a single-ended input by adding an inverted polarity signal path.


----------



## LoganRoss

Hi.
 Thank you very much.  So the bottom line is that even if you have an excellent non-balanced source, you will get most of the benefit of a balanced system.  I am running balanced out of the ifi, but my source is a Mojo, which I think is awesome by the way.  Thank you very much for clarifying this.


----------



## Allanmarcus

loganross said:


> Hi.
> Thank you very much.  So the bottom line is that even if you have an excellent non-balanced source, you will get most of the benefit of a balanced system.  I am running balanced out of the ifi, but my source is a Mojo, which I think is awesome by the way.  Thank you very much for clarifying this.


 

 If it's a good phase splitter, you will likely not be able to hear the difference between a balanced and SE source. The balanced headphone will provide for better audio, but the phase splitter (again, if good quality) should not be audible.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Received the amp today and have it set up for listening. 
  
 Refined, clean and warm are the first words that come to mind. Not getting any stridence or etchy sound so far but I will give it some time. Then post a review.


----------



## GHoldridge

I feel bad for all the caps and resistors right underneath those tubes. I know it's not that bad, I used my temp gun and got 140f/60c I'm sure they are all high temp rated. This has solved one of my issues. I was going to get an audio summer/mixer monitor controller like a drawmer 2.1. I wanted to mix my mics 2i2 adc with my better ifi idac2. Instead I use 2 different inputs depending on situation, and use the audio switcher software to change audio sources with hotkeys. Still have to reach around a turn monitors off and sub not perfect. I'm really waiting to see if the idsd pro can help bring things together.


----------



## iFi audio

*Q#5: Most other amps seem to require lots of power and use a giant desktop PC style power cord, perhaps to have a heavy enough gauge and shielding in order to avoid noise and interference. What is the technology that enables the pro to avoid these issues/requirements and use a small cord and wallwart (a great thing by the way)?*

 Small correction, the iCAN Pro does not use a ‘wall-wart,’ but a 15V/3.5A (52.5W) external power ‘brick’ instead and it can actually be powered with any DC voltage from 9V to a maximum of 16V (18V will activate protection circuitry).

 Internally the iCAN Pro uses latest high frequency mosfet technology to power the system. The incoming voltage uses a 1.2MHz converter to create a low voltage DC bus that can provide up to 44 Watt power. A separate 1.2MHz converter creates the 6V needed to heat the Tubes.
  
 This DC Bus voltage supplies a bank of further converters also operating at 1.2MHz that produce the high voltage for the tube (or solid-state) circuit which operates from 60V. More converters produce the power supplies for the power output stage at +/-16V. All output voltages are then filtered with multiple inductor/capacitor filters to remove any noise.

 Separate supplies exist for left & right channels, so a total of six converters produce the actual audio power supply voltages.
  
*The iCAN Pro Power Supply Section. *
  

  
 By operating at 1.2MHz instead of 50/60Hz, in the power supply we can use radically smaller size parts. As the operation is literally 20,000 times faster, only 1/20,000th of the size of traditional power supplies is needed for identical performance. These high frequencies can represent challenges, we have taken great care in the mechanical and electronic design to address these challenges.
  
 As you can see, with the greatest respect, AMR/iFi is different compared to most. As we have digital, analogue, signal and power technology ‘pillars.’ What looks small and unassuming on the outside beneath is a wealth of hi-tech. We also ask our customers to look inside and learn for themselves to arrive at their own conclusions. Rest assured, our gear is ground-up and is far from ‘run of the mill.’


----------



## LoganRoss

Hi.  This makes sense.  I don't know too much about this type of stuff, but it is good to know how you are leveraging the best of modern technology and that we are not somehow losing out to the best performing alternatives.


----------



## iFi audio

*Q#7: The description references that 3D sound and XBass are implemented in an analog manner. When these are switched off, are the related sections of the amp circuit physically bypassed, or is there some processing taking place all of the time?*
  
 There are no ‘additional sections’ in the circuit insofar that there no additional stages used.
  
 All functions are realised using passive components; resistors (Vishay MELF), capacitors (TDK C0G Types) and custom made audio inductors. If the function is disabled, these components are completely switched out of the circuit.
  

  
*Q#8: Do you have frequency response charts? The lower registers are very important to me and I am curious as to performance in that area.*

 The iCAN Pro is direct-coupled and uses modified DC Servo technology to eliminate any DC offset that has extremely low gain for audio signals and even subsonic signals. As a result, the low frequency response is in effect flat to near DC, the -3dB low frequency response should be at 0.25Hz by design, however our AP2 only measured reliably down to 10Hz, where it shows a perfectly flat line.

 As we cannot measure reliably at frequencies as low as 0.25Hz we have rated the iCAN Pro conservatively as having a -3dB point of 0.5Hz for low frequencies, at high frequencies the -3dB point is above 500kHz. In the 20Hz – 20Khz the frequency response is basically a pure flat line.

 You can find some measurements in this review, however they merely illustrate the limitations of the test system used, which is notably inferior to either AP2 or the capabilities of the iCAN Pro:

http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/16481


----------



## grizzlybeast

impressions​


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




​  
  
[size=15.08px]*Things I have wondered: *[/size]  
- If you would have bought this amp prior to listening or reading impressions, would you have been disappointed?
NO...
  
- Do you honestly think that this little amp can hold a candle to some of the big and beastly looking Flagship solid state amps out there?
YES
  
- Are the functions gimmicky?
Not sure yet
  
 - Would you sell your TH2 to fund this amp?
 No. 
  
- How does it compare to my TH2 with NOS tubes?
The full review will reveal this
  
- How does it compare to the iHA-6?
 The full review will reveal this. 
  
 - How does it sound with the HE-6?
 The full review will reveal this
  
 - Could you be happy with this as your only amp?
 NO but almost
  
  
 [size=15.08px]Sound impressions so far...[/size]  
 After reading the negative impressions of this amplifier, I am compelled to say that they simply do not know what they are talking about. Or, rather they have become very handicapped in an acclimation to amps that etch and sharpen sounds to give that hi-fidelity impression. This amp does no such foolery. Its a very organic sounding amplifier that while not brutal, is revealing, clean, liquid, and slightly energetic in dynamics. 
  
*Bass:*
 I think the bass sounds pretty good but it is not gripping the 650 and reeling in its control. I find the bass to be substantially present, punchy, solid, and natural but it does allow rumbles to be free. It doesn't cut short any decay, impact, or reduce the amount that was mixed in the recording. Quantity seems slightly warm. Quality is rich textured, but could, so far, make the HD650 a little tighter. I think this headphone belongs on an OTL amp anyway for that because it responds to most solid states that way, with some exceptions. 
 Edit:  spoke to
  
*Midrange:*
 Smooth with a little warmth in the lower - middle midrange. This amplifier is for the midrange lover. You will not get a dry and flat midrange. To further make the midrange stand out you have this clean blackground that is (spoiler alert) cleaner than anything on my desk, or that has been placed on it so far, besides the Pavane of course. There is a way that this amp makes vocals and instruments resonate, slightly linger, and then fade into utter blackness that very special about this amplifier.  The Macro dynamics are great. Micro dynamics are decent. 
  
*Highs:*
 Good texture, clean, and snappy but missing a bit of air it seems. Very clean though and not swishy and just like the rest of the frequency range, full of body. 
  
*Soundstage:* 
 Deep, not wide and kind of narrow. Maybe the 3D knob will help but I like forwardness of the instruments and hope they don't lose body. Nice space around every instrument.
  
*Overall fidelity:*
 Very refined. I reallllly love this amp for its refinement, clean sound, realistic timbres. If it had slightly more air and space in width it would be a total knock out amp. As Is I need to test it with other headphones and really compare it to other gear to get an answer. 
  
 I was expecting a less organic sound than this but am pleasantly surprised. Apart from the slight flattery I am hearing this amp sounds like REAL MUSIC. Clean, sweat, detailed and emotion stirring MUSIC. 
  
 [size=15.08px]Will I buy this amp?[/size]  
 No...well at least not before christmas. 
  
 Why? Because at 1699 I would have to sell my HE-6 and iHA-6 and only have the Eikon. After hearing the ZMF Eikon, I have a feeling that it may make a good pairing but ultimately believe my TH2 will do better with its high impedance  being better matched by my tube amp. 
[size=15.08px] [/size] But if I had funds available right now I would buy one for sure. I actually will forget my goal of getting a Master 9 and just go for this one or the Milo. Before I heard this I torn between the 9 and the milo but I also don't imagine the milo having such a clean sound like this based on its THD specs. 
  
[size=15.08px]Do I at least want this amp?[/size]  
yes yes yes...
 I have a feeling that shipping this to the next person will leave a big hole in my stable, almost as big as shipping the  ZMF Eikon back to Zach did. 


 Finding contradictions to my post and apologize. I need to sit down with it a little more. Wasn't expecting certain songs to reveal these contradictions. 
  
 Also the cable was part of the issue.


----------



## technobear

grizzlybeast said:


> Sound impressions so far...




Thank you for that. An accomplished summary of the inadequacies of the HD650


----------



## grizzlybeast

technobear said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > Sound impressions so far...
> ...





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Spoiler
That may seem like an hd650 summary but the 650 sounds tighter on my TH2 and a lot wider in sound stage, as well as more airy . I don't find the 650 overly warm in the lower-middle midrange and it is warmer on the pro than on the iha6, jotunheim, and TH2.


----------



## iFi audio

*Q#9: Your advertising materials highlight that ifi products leverage technology from the higher end AMR line of products. In the case of the ican pro amp, what are some of the technology that has trickled down?*

 There are many spheres but the main areas are the use of tubes. Many of the selected passive components which are used in AMR gear and were picked after long testing for their applications.
 
Referring back to what we outlined earlier, the AMR equipment long ago started out with their own bespoke signal and power sections. Never mind the insane levels of digital and analogue circuitry implementation. So as to not rehash here, anyone suffering from insomnia can read the AMR tech papers:
 
www.amr-audio.co.uk
 
As a side note, the remote control used by high-end manufacturers is commonly a generic Philips remote but the AMR RC-77/RC-777 are clearly not ‘the common garden variety’ – which is one small illustration that ‘we don’t do stock’ as this unit was a pain to develop.
 

  
*Q10: Many amplifiers, including headphone amps, are really heavy. Presumably because parts, like transformers and heat sinks are necessary for great sound. However, technology (and corresponding miniaturization) marches on. What technologies are responsible for your ability to keep the size and weight so low?*

 The iCAN Pro is not very small or light. It also has fairly big heatsinks, internally, types designed for computer use, because of maximum thermal efficiency.
 
Using the latest technology where appropriate allows some reduction is size and weight without compromising performance, we use classic technology wherever necessary and beneficial.


----------



## rickyleelee

agree with mr bear. the hd650 is at its limits. try with more and better headphones and update this thread. interested.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I wont update the thread. That was with other amps in mind as a reference. 

Ie. If a headphone has a weakness it will have less of a weaknesses on some amps and and be stronger on others. Its all about points of reference. I have 4 amps on my desk and a good dac and source. 

I will have the full review with not just the 650 but wont post any more impressions here. Only the review. Fwiw, I am using a modded he6 and the 650 is just as responsive to the different amps on my desk. 

Also the 650 is modded and when amped right is an excellent phone. So compared to stock my 650 has better clarity, much better bass, and sounds more open.

Lastly you would think that with me having an 2 650's (one modded and one unmodded right now), having had 6 pairs, Hearing it on the Teton, other TOTL amps and my own gear over the years I would know how it responds to different amps.


----------



## tesox

Great to learn more about the iCan Pro!
 Thank you ifi for all the extra informations.
  
 I use my iCan Pro every single day and it's a pure pleasure.
  
 With my previous amps I ended up picking the same albums again and again
 because they sound very good on this particular system.
 Today I just pick an album, adjust my iCan Pro and enjoy the music.
  
 ... and it's such a beautiful little beast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ....


----------



## iFi audio

tesox said:


> Great to learn more about the iCan Pro!
> Thank you ifi for all the extra informations.
> 
> I use my iCan Pro every single day and it's a pure pleasure.
> ...


 
 Wow, this space! That's a properly organized HQ you got in there!


----------



## tesox

ifi audio said:


> Wow, this space! That's a properly organized HQ you got in there!


 
  
 Thank you ! I think my iCan Pro feels comfortable here.


----------



## iFi audio

*Q#11: Do you consider the iFi Pro iCan to be in the same tier as the Audeze King?  In other words, what segment of the personal audio market is the Pro directed to?  Performance is relative, and it would be interesting to understand against whom you benchmark.*

 It is general company policy not to comment on other manufacturers' products. Notwithstanding, we highly respect the work Sankar and his team do. Our USA team already pre-ordered some Sine planar IEMs at RMAF.
  
 We also do not ‘benchmark’ against other products, though we do of course audition as it would be churlish not to respect other products in the market.
  
 Our main ‘competitors’ are to AMR gear and real music. For example, we reference our digital gear to our turntable setups for example; from Garrard 301 to Dr Feickert Blackbird to Revox B790.
  
*Pic of these the AMR Reference Turntables.*
  

                   
  
 We always attempt to extract the absolutely highest performance, subjectively first, objective second, that is possible within the fundamental constrains that apply to the project.
  
 If we simply set out to match or exceed a specific product or group of products we would end making something that sounds similar instead of sounding like real music, which is our objective.


----------



## grizzlybeast

​ ​ ​  ​ ​


----------



## Jozurr

grizzlybeast said:


>


 
  
 Waiting for the full review, but can you post some general impressions of how the HE-6 sounds on this amp?


----------



## Allanmarcus

Hey grizz, will you be comparing the Pro to the NuPrime?


----------



## grizzlybeast

allanmarcus said:


> Hey grizz, will you be comparing the Pro to the NuPrime?


 
 I will make reference to it but I do not have the nuprime anymore.


----------



## grizzlybeast

http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/17300


----------



## Allanmarcus

Xmas question:
  
 From the manual:
  
 1) 10Hz: for headphones/loudspeakers missing only the very lowest bass (below 40Hz).
 2) 20Hz: for headphones/loudspeakers missing some bass (below 80Hz).
 3) 40Hz: for headphones/loudspeakers missing substantial bass including some mid-bass (below 160Hz).
  
 what is the boost at each setting? Is it dynamic up to 12db, or is it a constant 12 db boost?
  
  
  
 Also, the iCan nano has one XBass setting. the iCan micro has two. The Pro has three. how do these translate to each other? In other words, given the numbering above, which of these equivalent settings is on the nano and the micro?


----------



## iFi audio

grizzlybeast said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/17300


 
 That's an impressive amount of work! Thank you!


----------



## grizzlybeast

thx! I really enjoyed the amp. such a little thing sounding so good is uncommon.


----------



## iFi audio

_*Q#12: *_*Were the published specs based on tube, tube plus, or solid state mode? Assuming only one of these, how do the specs change for the other modes?*
  
 Solid state mode, 0dB Gain. Due to the different gain levels and modes trying to specify every single possible combination would make a nice fat booklet in it's own right. As a rule, increasing raises noise by the same amount as the gain is increased and may slightly increase THD. Solid State & Tube mode measure so close, it is hard to tell them apart. Tube + due the much lower amount of negative feedback measures much higher on THD.
  
 And that about covers it!


----------



## LoganRoss

Hi. all of your answers are really appreciated. Thank you so much for the effort.  So, any chance the iDSD Pro will include the 3d sound and xbass features so that it can be used with multiple amps?


----------



## Allanmarcus

loganross said:


> Hi. all of your answers are really appreciated. Thank you so much for the effort.  So, any chance the iDSD Pro will include the 3d sound and xbass features so that it can be used with multiple amps?




From the pics, no


----------



## iFi audio

allanmarcus said:


> From the pics, no


 
  
 That's correct.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Quite the sale price for the Pro iCan

http://www.adorama.com/ifproican.html?emailprice=t

$1299


----------



## grizzlybeast

Dang I would in a heartbeat if it wasn't Christmas


----------



## Allanmarcus

grizzlybeast said:


> Dang I would in a heartbeat if it wasn't Christmas




Have you been naughty?


----------



## grizzlybeast

Lol no but I will be if I buy that


----------



## Starcruncher

Thanks guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Randomly checked the thread and saw the Adorama deal. Damage done. Gonna shed a few pounds now because I can't eat for a while.
  
 But really, I am excited


----------



## bmichels

Did someone *compared it's SQ to the WooAudio WA8* which is so far the best transportable DAC/AMP that I have heard (I prefer the WA8 even better than my HUGO or Mojo) ?


----------



## grdlow

bmichels said:


> Did someone *compared it's SQ to the WooAudio WA8* which is so far the best transportable DAC/AMP that I have heard (I prefer the WA8 even better than my HUGO or Mojo) ?


They're not the same (one is amp only) but i doubt the amp section of the WA8 will be any better than the iCan Pro.


----------



## grizzlybeast

^What he said


----------



## Starcruncher

Now the price is back up to 1699 on Adorama. WTH? But happy I snuck into that deal.


----------



## Allanmarcus

starcruncher said:


> Now the price is back up to 1699 on Adorama. WTH? But happy I snuck into that deal.


 
  
 Adorama probably ran out of stock.


----------



## lugnut

allanmarcus said:


> Quite the sale price for the Pro iCan
> 
> http://www.adorama.com/ifproican.html?emailprice=t
> 
> $1299


 
 I would buy one for $1299, at $1699 out of reach for me !


----------



## BarDash

Just purchased from Adorama and waiting for delivery. 
Pardon my newbiness, and embarrassed to ask but any reason to use a separate DAC with this?


----------



## grizzlybeast

bardash said:


> Just purchased from Adorama and waiting for delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A DAC is in everything. It is what converts Digital to Analog so it can be audible. How the sound is converted to Analog makes a huge difference in the sound quality being heard. Some units, even more expensive than this amp, still have a somewhat digital sound to the conversion and make the music less natural. 
  
 The same way an amp can sound murky, bassy or bass light, midrange heavy or thin etc etc is the same way a DAC can sound and the built in DAC of your computer is not really good enough for an amp of this caliber or hardly any amp for that matter. My DAC is the most expensive part of my chain and the most important to me. I would never really know what the amp is capable of unless I have a good DAC to enable it.


----------



## BarDash

Thank you for the explanation...


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> Just purchased from Adorama and waiting for delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You have to have some DAC to get the music into the amp to amplify it. The Pro iCan doesn't have a DAC. 
  
 If you have RCA or 3.5mm line out from your source, you can start with that and it will work (you just need the right cables). You can then borrow DACs to see what might work for you.
  
 The iDSD is a good DAC, as is the Modi Multibit. Both area reasonably priced. Obviously there are others.
  
 the DAC and Amp likely will be the electronics that affect your source the least, as long as you have a decent amp and a decent DAC. Decent can be as inexpensive as the iFi Nano line or the Modi/Magni. Headphones and source (lossless vs lossy) are the place to start, then Amp and DAC and then when you are complex insanely into this "hobby", cables. After cables, vibration control!


----------



## BarDash

grizzlybeast said:


> A DAC is in everything. It is what converts Digital to Analog so it can be audible. How the sound is converted to Analog makes a huge difference in the sound quality being heard. Some units, even more expensive than this amp, still have a somewhat digital sound to the conversion and make the music less natural.
> 
> The same way an amp can sound murky, bassy or bass light, midrange heavy or thin etc etc is the same way a DAC can sound and the built in DAC of your computer is not really good enough for an amp of this caliber or hardly any amp for that matter. My DAC is the most expensive part of my chain and the most important to me. I would never really know what the amp is capable of unless I have a good DAC to enable it.







allanmarcus said:


> You have to have some DAC to get the music into the amp to amplify it. The Pro iCan doesn't have a DAC.
> 
> If you have RCA or 3.5mm line out from your source, you can start with that and it will work (you just need the right cables). You can then borrow DACs to see what might work for you.
> 
> ...



Excellent & informative! Thank you guys!


----------



## etc6849

Mine came yesterday from Adorama (ordered the LCD-3 plus Pro iCan combo deal that is still going and an unbelievable price).  The ifi Pro iCan is incredible.  Even using it as a speaker preamp it is the best I've ever heard.  The technical design of this is world class and I suspect I will never hear a better preamp or headphone amp. 
  
 Don't let its size fool you.  Removing the power supply from the chassis was a smart design choice and I have no doubt their switching power supply is super clean.
  
 I would seriously wait for the Pro iDSD as the rep in the other thread said "hopefully i don't have to wait long."
  
 Quote:


bardash said:


> Just purchased from Adorama and waiting for delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rigo

Has anyone compared the iCan Pro to the Auralic Taurus MKII?


----------



## BarDash

etc6849 said:


>


 
 I think that's where I'm leaning as well. I ordered the same package from Adorama and get mine next week
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Right now I have the Modi Multibit so I'll use that temporarily until the iDSD becomes available. 
 I was also considering the Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 3 but it's a little out of my price range and according toTim Connor from KitsuneHiFi it'll be to at least till the end of December before they're back in stock do their popularity.


----------



## etc6849

Yeah the combo deal is very hot IMHO, even better than the BF sale prices of each item by several hundred.
  
 So far I don't care for my LCD-3's over my HD800's, but both sound very very good.
  
 Here are some good technical FAQs on ican pro I found:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/ifi-audio-ican-pro-q-and-30342/​  
 Their engineering team is world class, so I'm sure the Pro iDSD will beat all expectations.  Never heard of ifi before and only ordered the combo deal because of the price, but I'm way more into speakers than headphones.
  
 Quote:


bardash said:


> I think that's where I'm leaning as well. I ordered the same package from Adorama and get mine next week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BarDash

etc6849 said:


>


 

 Did your LCD-3s come in a "sealed" package? I ask because I may sell them cause I'm pretty satisfied with my HD800S & Ether C's. I also am waiting for the Massdrop HD6XX's HP's so I may just get rid of the LCDs and use that money on a DAC.
 Thanks for the link.


----------



## bluesaint

Hope the amp goes on sale for $1299 again. Happy with my hd800s and ether flow C on route. Ordered the idsd black label DAC from adorama though


----------



## etc6849

Yes, they came sealed (gold seal audeze sticker) and are well packaged.  Have you ever tried to return part of a combo deal to adorama.  The invoice lists the items separately and I'm fine with just getting a refund on the LCD-3's and keeping the Pro iCan for $1072.
  
 Quote:


bardash said:


> Did your LCD-3s come in a "sealed" package? I ask because I may sell them cause I'm pretty satisfied with my HD800S & Ether C's. I also am waiting for the Massdrop HD6XX's HP's so I may just get rid of the LCDs and use that money on a DAC.
> Thanks for the link.


----------



## BarDash

Never tried to return anything to them but please let me know if they take the LCDs back. I'd do the same to not deal with the hassle of selling them.


----------



## etc6849

yeah, they are worth more used, and i'm on the fence as the construction of the LCD-3's is really nice.  just really like my HD800 accuracy and imaging.  i have returned defective items to adorama a couple times and never had to pay shipping or go through any hassle.
  
 Quote:


bardash said:


> Never tried to return anything to them but please let me know if they take the LCDs back. I'd do the same to not deal with the hassle of selling them.


----------



## BarDash

They're worth more used? The LCDs?


----------



## etc6849

Both are worth more than we paid if you go off ebay sale prices and used prices on the forum.
  
 Quote:


bardash said:


> They're worth more used? The LCDs?


----------



## BarDash

Gotcha


----------



## GHoldridge

allanmarcus said:


> Quite the sale price for the Pro iCan
> 
> http://www.adorama.com/ifproican.html?emailprice=t
> 
> $1299


 
 Wow and i thought i got a deal on a demo unit through music direct. Thats new, and around the same price... I dunno how to even feel about this. I had told myself before i jumped on the demo don't because of this scenario, but i really wanted the ican pro. I mean at least i know it would work, and music direct demos are pretty good. Though having a brand new unit sealed with all the plastic just feels better. Plus, my demo unit for the price of this brand new one had some very light scratches on the viewing window, though I really have to be trying to look for them. I'm not sure of the exact material they used for the little window, but i'm pretty sure its not glass. I would love to buff it out and make it perfect, and it doesn't seem impossible or hard. Though the risk of fixing something that could be lived with and making it worse is just a bad feeling lol. I mean it seems like a pretty superficial complaint, but i'm sure you all can relate to this in one way or another haha


----------



## LoryWiv

grizzlybeast said:


> A DAC is in everything. It is what converts Digital to Analog so it can be audible. How the sound is converted to Analog makes a huge difference in the sound quality being heard. Some units, even more expensive than this amp, still have a somewhat digital sound to the conversion and make the music less natural.
> 
> The same way an amp can sound murky, bassy or bass light, midrange heavy or thin etc etc is the same way a DAC can sound and the built in DAC of your computer is not really good enough for an amp of this caliber or hardly any amp for that matter. My DAC is the most expensive part of my chain and the most important to me. I would never really know what the amp is capable of unless I have a good DAC to enable it.


 
 Would one need a true balanced topolgy DAC to feed the iCAN Pro to fully realize the benefits of it's balanced headphone output?. Any suggestions for one that matches well sonically and in aesthetics / form factor in a desktop stack?


----------



## Allanmarcus

lorywiv said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > A DAC is in everything. It is what converts Digital to Analog so it can be audible. How the sound is converted to Analog makes a huge difference in the sound quality being heard. Some units, even more expensive than this amp, still have a somewhat digital sound to the conversion and make the music less natural.
> ...




No, you don't need a balanced DAC to benefit from the balanced topology.

As for a stack, iFi will eventually come out with a matching, a quite expensive, Pro iDSD. Until then, its mix and match. Most solid state DACS don't put out that much heat, so you should be able to stack the iCan on top of any DAC that's big enough. 

As for synergy, well that's in the ear of the beholder. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between good DACs. Even if they could, a difference doesn't mean one DAC is better; it just means there's a difference.


----------



## BarDash

Just got my Ican Pro today and I'm going to connect it to Modi Multibit tomorrow after work at least until the IDsd is released (if it's affordable) Any settings or recommendations from you guys would be much appreciated... Currently using JRiver and most of my files are flac.


----------



## grizzlybeast

bardash said:


> Just got my Ican Pro today and I'm going to connect it to Modi Multibit tomorrow after work at least until the IDsd is released (if it's affordable) Any settings or recommendations from you guys would be much appreciated... Currently using JRiver and most of my files are flac.


 
 balanced mode and solid state. 
  
 The 800 and 700 can use some tube love


----------



## BarDash

grizzlybeast said:


> balanced mode and solid state.
> 
> The 800 and 700 can use some tube love



"Worthwhile" balanced tube DAC under 1000.00, the unicorn I've between searching for.


----------



## EvenR

bardash said:


> "Worthwhile" balanced tube DAC under 1000.00, the unicorn I've between searching for.


 
 There's Cayin iDAC-6. I believe it can be bought new for 999$


----------



## Seamaster

grdlow said:


> They're not the same (one is amp only) but i doubt the amp section of the WA8 will be any better than the iCan Pro.


 

 Those two will be totally different sound signature, people should take that into consideration


----------



## cav1sa

Hi guys,
  
 Slightly off-topic, but I'm not getting much help from other sources. Those of you who use line inputs, what cables can you recommend? I'm beginning to think replacing the stock cables might actually yield a noticeable SQ improvement.
 Thanks!


----------



## BarDash

evenr said:


> There's Cayin iDAC-6. I believe it can be bought new for 999$



Was just reading up on it. Thanks for the suggestion! Anyone have any experience with this Dac?
I like the fact that when using balanced HP's
 "XLR requires the tube section to be engaged". Now you got me wondering if I should forego the IDSD (when it's released) altogether and just get one of these.


----------



## etc6849

Went fine for me. They let me keep the amp at the special invoiced combo price.


bardash said:


> Never tried to return anything to them but please let me know if they take the LCDs back. I'd do the same to not deal with the hassle of selling them.


----------



## Allanmarcus

cav1sa said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Slightly off-topic, but I'm not getting much help from other sources. Those of you who use line inputs, what cables can you recommend? I'm beginning to think replacing the stock cables might actually yield a noticeable SQ improvement.
> Thanks!


 
  I use Monoprice premium cables.


----------



## BarDash

Got my ICan Pro bundled with LCD3's from Adorama on a black Friday deal and just started listening today... OMG I love this combo, and finally understand what people mean when they say endgame setup.
 Unbelievable sound makes me want to re-listen to my entire music collection! Really happy...


----------



## iFi audio

bardash said:


> Got my ICan Pro bundled with LCD3's from Adorama on a black Friday deal and just started listening today... OMG I love this combo, and finally understand what people mean when they say endgame setup.
> Unbelievable sound makes me want to re-listen to my entire music collection! Really happy...


 
 Ain't this setup a blast ?


----------



## BarDash

F-yeah!


----------



## BarDash

ifi audio said:


> Ain't this setup a blast ?


 
 When am I gonna get a DAC from you guys?


----------



## etc6849

Now all we need is a Pro iDSD, pretty please!



ifi audio said:


> Ain't this setup a blast ? :veryevil:


----------



## BarDash

I know the IDSD is coming... but how about just an IDAC Pro?


----------



## disastermouse

Has anyone tried out this amp with the Focal Utopia? I'd be interested in this as an 'endgame' (for me) amp and the Focal Utopia as an 'endgame' headphone, and then maybe replacing my Bifrost MB with an Yggy at some point and just being 'done'.


----------



## Allanmarcus

disastermouse said:


> Has anyone tried out this amp with the Focal Utopia? I'd be interested in this as an 'endgame' (for me) amp and the Focal Utopia as an 'endgame' headphone, and then maybe replacing my Bifrost MB with an Yggy at some point and just being 'done'.


 
  
 Endgame? that implies and end. I'm not sure that is possible. 
  
 "Half time pause" might be better nomenclature


----------



## grizzlybeast

disastermouse said:


> Has anyone tried out this amp with the Focal Utopia? I'd be interested in this as an 'endgame' (for me) amp and the Focal Utopia as an 'endgame' headphone, and then maybe replacing my Bifrost MB with an Yggy at some point and just being 'done'.


 
 I havent but if I had the Utopia that would be the pairing I want. 
  
 The Utopia will benefit from everything the pro has going for it. Especially those times you want more bass the pro bass boost is perfect for the Utopia. I honestly can't imagine a better headphone for the Pro because its low impedance, slightly bright, dynamic, clear, deep, and detailed.


----------



## grdlow

disastermouse said:


> Has anyone tried out this amp with the Focal Utopia? I'd be interested in this as an 'endgame' (for me) amp and the Focal Utopia as an 'endgame' headphone, and then maybe replacing my Bifrost MB with an Yggy at some point and just being 'done'.


i'm using the HD800S and iCan Pro with a Yggdrasil and Marantz SA8005 as source. it's quite the endgame setup for me and i'm thoroughly satisfied. the only add-ons i might consider for later is the ifi dsd pro, the ifi estat unit, and a pair of stax headphones.


----------



## bimmer100

I just got my hd800S and love them on the pro Ican. Wow




grdlow said:


> i'm using the HD800S and iCan Pro with a Yggdrasil and Marantz SA8005 as source. it's quite the endgame setup for me and i'm thoroughly satisfied. the only add-ons i might consider for later is the ifi dsd pro, the ifi estat unit, and a pair of stax headphones.


----------



## Khragon

Bimmer, how does the Ican compared to your NOS11 amp?


----------



## grizzlybeast

khragon said:


> Bimmer, how does the Ican compared to your NOS11 amp?


 
 he prefers it. Im still gunning for the he-9 as my last solid state, if the Phonitor doesn't kill it (see sig tour for sign up) but honestly the Pro is something I would really love to own. Its a great amplifier


----------



## Khragon

He prefers which one more? I may buy the Pro for my own comparison, if I can get it for a good price.


----------



## grizzlybeast

khragon said:


> He prefers which one more? I may buy the Pro for my own comparison, if I can get it for a good price.


 
 Sorry about that He prefers the Pro more. 
  
 I wish I still had it to compare it to the Phonitor


----------



## Khragon

Thanks grizzly. 

Bimmer if you can, please share some impressions between these two.


----------



## BarDash

etc6849 said:


> Went fine for me. They let me keep the amp at the special invoiced combo price.


 

 Keeping the LCD3's, they sound so great with the ICAN that I can't bear to let them go.


----------



## iFi audio

bardash said:


> Keeping the LCD3's, they sound so great with the ICAN that I can't bear to let them go.


 
 No surprise there, thanks for your feedback though


----------



## Trogdor

bardash said:


> Keeping the LCD3's, they sound so great with the ICAN that I can't bear to let them go.




Same is true for the LCD-4. Very good synergy right out the gate.


----------



## Khragon

Getting one this weekend. Wonder how this pair with Utopia.


----------



## Allanmarcus

khragon said:


> Getting one this weekend. Wonder how this pair with Utopia.


 

 Should be great. I had a Utopia and the Pro, but not at the same time. The Utopia reproduces sound so well, and the Pro outputs it so well that the match has to be made in heaven. Personally I found the bass not eh utopia perfect, but some might like a little more. The 10Hz boost from the Pro should bu just enough to allow a visceral low end on the Utopia. I'm guessing most cans don't benefit from the 10Hz boost, but I think the Utopia will. Optional, of course. 
  
 All you need a Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC and you are all set. Anything less and you might as well just get Beats!


----------



## iFi audio

khragon said:


> Getting one this weekend. Wonder how this pair with Utopia.


 
 You'll be pleasantly surprised for sure, these new Utopias are great.


----------



## BarDash

My Ican gets very hot even after a couple of hours use. Basically hot enough to where I could barely touch it. I don't leave it running all day, just for 2 or three hours after I get home from work, I have a Jotunheim and that gets wartm to the touch but not nearly as hot. is this normal?


----------



## Allanmarcus

bardash said:


> My Ican gets very hot even after a couple of hours use. Basically hot enough to where I could barely touch it. I don't leave it running all day, just for 2 or three hours after I get home from work, I have a Jotunheim and that gets wartm to the touch but not nearly as hot. is this normal?




Solid state mode or a tube mode? Tube mode will get hot because of the tube.


----------



## BarDash

Tube mode. Tomorrow I'll try solid state to see if it gets as hot... Good point, didn't take that into account.


----------



## Dulalala

Anyone tried these with the HD800S and can comment on the pairing?


----------



## Aleatorius

allanmarcus said:


> Solid state mode or a tube mode? Tube mode will get hot because of the tube.




Are you running that balanced or single ended?


----------



## GHoldridge

bardash said:


> Tube mode. Tomorrow I'll try solid state to see if it gets as hot... Good point, didn't take that into account.



Mine gets hot in both modes slightly more hot over the tubes. Remember a lot of components are rated to 120c/248f. The highest temp I could read was pointing directly at a tube and got 145f the case was 110f-120f. Also there's 2 schools of thought to leaving it on or turning it on/off. Leaving it on keeps it at a consistent temp and turning it off/on obviously varies the temp which causes more expansion and contraction. Personally, I leave mine on a lot I use my pc as a second alarm in the A.M.


----------



## BarDash

I know a lot of people leave their's on but when I'm gone for 9 hours during the day the cons outway the pros... Cost, wear & tear and worrying about leaving a hot amp running unattended all day outweigh the convenience factor IMHO.
Plus we have a cat (profile pic) that is not shy about sleeping on a hot/warm surface.


----------



## iFi audio

bardash said:


> Tube mode. Tomorrow I'll try solid state to see if it gets as hot... Good point, didn't take that into account.


 
  
 Class A topology is literally married to heat, there's no other way around it. It doesn't matter that much whether it's tubes or transistors, pure class A gets hot and that's perfectly fine. The chassis is the heatsink so it is designed to cool a product using convection.


----------



## BarDash

Thank you for the explanation...


----------



## disastermouse

ifi audio said:


> Class A topology is literally married to heat, there's no other way around it. It doesn't matter that much whether it's tubes or transistors, pure class A gets hot and that's perfectly fine. The chassis is the heatsink so it is designed to cool a product using convection.



I think it's decades of living with PCs that engenders a wariness of hot electronics. For computers, heat decreases performance and the life of the product. That isn't always the case with amplifiers, but it's a mindset adjustment.


----------



## iFi audio

disastermouse said:


> I think it's decades of living with PCs that engenders a wariness of hot electronics. For computers, heat decreases performance and the life of the product. That isn't always the case with amplifiers, but it's a mindset adjustment.


 
  
 some people say that when it's hot, you know it's good...


----------



## etc6849

until the wife finds out... then you are in deep $#@%.
  
 Quote:


ifi audio said:


> some people say that when it's hot, you know it's good...


----------



## iFi audio

etc6849 said:


>


 
  
 Her unawareness is the key part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 But getting back on track, class A = good. We like class A. We like it a lot.


----------



## GHoldridge

So I leave my ican on most the time. It was in the tube mode and I started to hear clicking coming from it like when you switch the different modes. The sound didn't cut out and nor was the volume high. If it starts to happens again I'll send a ticket . I read earlier about tripping protection but the ifi light didn't turn red and the sound didn't cut out. Maybe the source was to hot or maybe I had the gain up?


----------



## number34

Just ordered the iCan Pro + LCD 3 combo deal from Adorama. Already have the iDSD Micro and love it. Can't image what my ears are about to experience!


----------



## ufospls2

number34 said:


> Just ordered the iCan Pro + LCD 3 combo deal from Adorama. Already have the iDSD Micro and love it. Can't image what my ears are about to experience!


 
 Should be awesome!


----------



## BarDash

number34 said:


> Just ordered the iCan Pro + LCD 3 combo deal from Adorama. Already have the iDSD Micro and love it. Can't image what my ears are about to experience!



It is awesome! Got mine on a black Friday deal and it's an amazing combo... I was going to wait for the IDac but got the Yggy instead which arrives today. Can't wait!!!


----------



## iFi audio

bardash said:


> It is awesome! Got mine on a black Friday deal and it's an amazing combo... I was going to wait for the IDac but got the Yggy instead which arrives today. Can't wait!!!


 
  
 We can imagine that you're flying with LCD-3s and our latest amp. iDAC is heading in this very direction for sure, though there are some things that need to be done with it. In any case, to see a skirmish between our machine and rest of d/a champs will be awesome!


----------



## BarDash

ifi audio said:


> We can imagine that you're flying with LCD-3s and our latest amp. iDAC is heading in this very direction for sure, though there are some things that need to be done with it. In any case, to see a skirmish between our machine and rest of d/a champs will be awesome!


 

 Ughhh... Please don't tempt me with the iDAC! "Breaking in the Yggy with the iCAN as we speak. And I must say it's a wonderful combo! Best system I've ever heard.  My 2nd gen WA7's are jealous my Jotunheim/Mimby is in a box and my wallet hates me!


----------



## iFi audio

bardash said:


> Ughhh... Please don't tempt me with the iDAC! "Breaking in the Yggy with the iCAN as we speak. And I must say it's a wonderful combo! Best system I've ever heard.  My 2nd gen WA7's are jealous my Jotunheim/Mimby is in a box and my wallet hates me!


 
  
 You know the drill... "Hi, welcome to Head-fi.org and sorry about your wallet!", right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## iFi audio

gholdridge said:


> So I leave my ican on most the time. It was in the tube mode and I started to hear clicking coming from it like when you switch the different modes. The sound didn't cut out and nor was the volume high. If it starts to happens again I'll send a ticket . I read earlier about tripping protection but the ifi light didn't turn red and the sound didn't cut out. Maybe the source was to hot or maybe I had the gain up?


 
  
 It's for the best to open an STS ticket right away, just to make sure that everything works as intended. Plus, more info is needed about the rest of your hardware. STS guys will help with this.


----------



## BarDash

ifi audio said:


> You know the drill... "Hi, welcome to Head-fi.org and sorry about your wallet!", right :wink_face:  ?



This has probably been asked and answered already but still don't know if you guys recommend leaving the
IFi ICans on all the time? I shut it off when I'm done listening to preserve tube life but leave the Yggy on as recommended by ****t. I definitely love what I'm hearing more after some warm up time but will take your advice... Thanks


----------



## JootecFromMars

bardash said:


> This has probably been asked and answered already but still don't know if you guys recommend leaving the
> IFi ICans on all the time? I shut it off when I'm done listening to preserve tube life but leave the Yggy on as recommended by ****t. I definitely love what I'm hearing more after some warm up time but will take your advice... Thanks


 
 I have an Yggy and iCAN also. I always turn the iCAN off but give it about 20 mins to warm up before listening. I'd never leave it on 24/7 those tubes have a limited lifespan (is it about 10,000 hours? That's 416 days). Now that I've had the iCAN 4 months or so where as I used to prefer listening in tube mode, now its burned in I much prefer solid state mode for the detail. Initially SS mode sounded sort of weak and lacking low end. Not any more.
  
 I leave the Yggy on 24/7 and that thing gets better all the time.


----------



## Khragon

I leave mine on, only turn it off before I go to work.  Turned it back on when I get home and leave it on until the next morning.  In the weekend I just leave the amp on.  Only in SS mode, of course not in tube mode, I turn tube off after each use.
  
 I believe that reduces thermal cycling of the amp and help extend the life, and also it's in warm up state all the time and I can start listen right away.  iFi please comment so we know what best to do.


----------



## BarDash

jootecfrommars said:


> I have an Yggy and iCAN also. I always turn the iCAN off but give it about 20 mins to warm up before listening. I'd never leave it on 24/7 those tubes have a limited lifespan (is it about 10,000 hours? That's 416 days). Now that I've had the iCAN 4 months or so where as I used to prefer listening in tube mode, now its burned in I much prefer solid state mode for the detail. Initially SS mode sounded sort of weak and lacking low end. Not any more.
> 
> I leave the Yggy on 24/7 and that thing gets better all the time.



Until I hear otherwise than I'm going to stick with what I'm doing also. I wonder if I'll end up following you on using SS? I'm primarily using tubes right now but only have had the iCans about a month. 
What headphones are you using?


----------



## iFi audio

'Nuff said!


----------



## JootecFromMars

bardash said:


> What headphones are you using?




See my signature but LCD-2F.


----------



## BarDash

I have the the IFi iCan hooked up to my Yggy with XLR. When I hooked up my speakers which have a built in DAC to the iCans RCA outs I get sound coming from my HP's and speakers. Is this normal? I like to hook the speakers up to the amp so I can use the amps volume control vs the speakers volume control.


----------



## BarDash

jootecfrommars said:


> I have an Yggy and iCAN also. I always turn the iCAN off but give it about 20 mins to warm up before listening. I'd never leave it on 24/7 those tubes have a limited lifespan (is it about 10,000 hours? That's 416 days). Now that I've had the iCAN 4 months or so where as I used to prefer listening in tube mode, now its burned in I much prefer solid state mode for the detail. Initially SS mode sounded sort of weak and lacking low end. Not any more.
> 
> I leave the Yggy on 24/7 and that thing gets better all the time.


 

 I tried SS mode for a couple of days and can't help but switch back to tube mode. It's just IMO warmer, more inviting and overall takes some of the "bite" out of what I'm listening to. Maybe I'm just a tube guy, but I don't hear less detail with the tubes as opposed to SS mode. I've tried every genre of music I have as well as CD recorded Flac files  to 24/192 files.


----------



## iFi audio

bardash said:


> I tried SS mode for a couple of days and can't help but switch back to tube mode. It's just IMO warmer, more inviting and overall takes some of the "bite" out of what I'm listening to. Maybe I'm just a tube guy, but I don't hear less detail with the tubes as opposed to SS mode. I've tried every genre of music I have as well as CD recorded Flac files  to 24/192 files.


 
  
 Apples and oranges. So different, yet each tasty  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 If you're happy, we're happy!


----------



## iFi audio

bardash said:


> This has probably been asked and answered already but still don't know if you guys recommend leaving the
> IFi ICans on all the time?


 
  
 Warm-up does play a role. The iCAN (even micro) runs fairly toasty, but the parts used are rated for much higher operational temperatures.
  
 The official lifespan for the tubes is 10,000 hours at the nominal operating conditions. The iCAN Pro operates these bulbs at a much lower power, which will increase their lifespan dramatically. When operated in the iCAN Pro and used with the iCAN's soft-start system etc., we tend to think that an actual lifespan of 100,000 hours is more likely.
  
 If you turn everything off in order to save the planet (which is perfectly fine btw.) and at the same time want everything nice and warm and save tubes' lives, you can only turn the iCAN Pro (and the upcoming iDSD Pro) to solid state mode. This completely shuts down the aforementioned glass component.


----------



## BarDash

ifi audio said:


> Warm-up does play a role. The iCAN (even micro) runs fairly toasty, but the parts used are rated for much higher operational temperatures.
> 
> The official lifespan for the tubes is 10,000 hours at the nominal operating conditions. The iCAN Pro operates these bulbs at a much lower power, which will increase their lifespan dramatically. When operated in the iCAN Pro and used with the iCAN's soft-start system etc., we tend to think that an actual lifespan of 100,000 hours is more likely.
> 
> If you turn everything off in order to save the planet (which is perfectly fine btw.) and at the same time want everything nice and warm and save tubes' lives, you can only turn the iCAN Pro (and the upcoming iDSD Pro) to solid state mode. This completely shuts down the aforementioned glass component.



Thank you for the detailed explanation. Much appreciated!


----------



## jcdreamer

number34 said:


> Just ordered the iCan Pro + LCD 3 combo deal from Adorama. Already have the iDSD Micro and love it. Can't image what my ears are about to experience!


 
  


bardash said:


> It is awesome! Got mine on a black Friday deal and it's an amazing combo... I was going to wait for the IDac but got the Yggy instead which arrives today. Can't wait!!!


 

 I missed out on the black Friday deal. If Adorama were still offering that combo deal, I'd be all over it.


----------



## BarDash

jcdreamer said:


> I missed out on the black Friday deal. If Adorama were still offering that combo deal, I'd be all over it.


 

 Maybe they'll have something similar for New Years.


----------



## naimless

I'm going to order the ican pro in the next couple of weeks and I'm planning on adding a power amp to drive some bookshelf/stand mount speakers,is there anything I should bare in mind to ensure a good match between the two components ?
So far the one I have in mind is the compact d-class amp from Ghent Audio.
If anyone has any thoughts on alternatives or impressions of the pro as a preamp I'd be pleased to hear them.
Thanks.


----------



## Mediahound

I got this in for review. Here is my 'first look' video:


----------



## BarDash

mediahound said:


> I got this in for review. Here is my 'first look' video:





 Thanks for that, are you gonna follow up with a full review & impressions in the near future?


----------



## Mediahound

bardash said:


> Thanks for that, are you gonna follow up with a full review & impressions in the near future?


 
 I may not do a review video, but a written review on head-fi.


----------



## BarDash

mediahound said:


> I may not do a review video, but a written review on head-fi.


 

 Perfect! I own this now going on a little over a month and am very happy with my purchase. Looking forward to your review. (video or written


----------



## iFi audio

naimless said:


> I'm going to order the ican pro in the next couple of weeks and I'm planning on adding a power amp to drive some bookshelf/stand mount speakers,is there anything I should bare in mind to ensure a good match between the two components ?
> So far the one I have in mind is the compact d-class amp from Ghent Audio.
> If anyone has any thoughts on alternatives or impressions of the pro as a preamp I'd be pleased to hear them.
> Thanks.


 
  
 Preference would go to a fully balanced amplifier (with balanced inputs which remains balanced throughout - without conversion to SE anywhere inside our product) adapted to pro-audio input levels (e.g. +20dBu for full power) and a high class A bias design in class AB. 
  
 Alternatively a design with true balanced inputs  but a single ended outputs without additional circuitry would be best. Some older "high end" amplifiers originally concept/designed by John Curl operate this way. 
  
 Commercially this kind of amplifier is not so common. Speakers should be of suitable efficiency for the amplifier used. A high quality active studio monitor may nowadays be a better choice in terms of flexibility and performance.


----------



## naimless

ifi audio said:


> Preference would go to a fully balanced amplifier (with balanced inputs which remains balanced throughout - without conversion to SE anywhere inside our product) adapted to pro-audio input levels (e.g. +20dBu for full power) and a high class A bias design in class AB.
> 
> Alternatively a design with true balanced inputs  but a single ended outputs without additional circuitry would be best. Some older "high end" amplifiers originally concept/designed by John Curl operate this way.
> 
> Commercially this kind of amplifier is not so common. Speakers should be of suitable efficiency for the amplifier used. A high quality active studio monitor may nowadays be a better choice in terms of flexibility and performance.




Thanks, I'll bare that in mind.
Has anyone tried the pro with the ether c ?


----------



## Khragon

Can I roll some tubes with the Pro iCan? What are some recommendations?


----------



## kikouyou

This amp is either static or hybrid.
None of the tube modes are "tube only modes" there is always a static amp after the tube pre-amp.
Only the pre-amp mode could be qualified as pure tube.
The difference between tube and tube+ is just the tube harmonics attenuation which is lower in the tube+ mode.
So you may not get the sound of a pure tube amp with our without output transformers, but it gets pretty close. That said, the concept of this amp is very attractive as you can tune the sound pretty nicely and support most if not all of the cans out there with a transportable device.


----------



## BarDash

naimless said:


> Thanks, I'll bare that in mind.
> Has anyone tried the pro with the ether c ?



I have. It drives the Ether C's nicely and has a nice SQ IMO. I prefer it on the SS setting most of the time for the C's.


----------



## naimless

bardash said:


> I have. It drives the Ether C's nicely and has a nice SQ IMO. I prefer it on the SS setting most of the time for the C's.




Thanks, that's good to know.


----------



## abvolt

Thinking seriously about this amp what's the consensus of this board is it worth 1700.00 ? and how would it sound in compairison with my wa22 with the right tubes is mighty hard to beat thanks...enjoy


----------



## iFi audio

kikouyou said:


> Only the pre-amp mode could be qualified as pure tube.


 
  
 The circuit is the same for preamp and/or headphone amplifier. 
  
 The circuit embeds a tube (or J-Fet) as the first stage (and more crucially the circuit element that acts as comparator for the input signal and the negative feedback signal). The second stage is a heavily linearized and buffered input bipolar circuit, which has modest gain and very little distortion of it's own and very high input impedance (just like a tube stage). 
  
 The current buffer is executed in 'bi-mos' technology. This is a much better choice than classic emitter follower circuits or pure mosfet circuits, as the compound bi-mos stage is very fast, has very low output impedance and high current capacity with a very high input impedance and low input capacitance. It might be best compared to a "super-super" 6S33 OTL circuit.
  
 None of this circuitry is common, generic or found in other designs known to us at least, though the bi-mos output stage was inspired (but is very different in circuit design) by a famous German pro audio amplifier of the 1980's.
  
 Other than being fully direct coupled and using a mixture of tubes and solid state devices, the circuitry in our Pro series has most in common conceptually and how it works with classic 1960's pro audio tube gear, including the german TAB V series amplifiers and the EMI REDD.51 recording console amplifiers.


----------



## iFi audio

khragon said:


> Can I roll some tubes with the Pro iCan? What are some recommendations?


 
  
 Doing so will void warranty. 
  
 If you have or can find some "five star" GE 5670WB, Western Electrics 396A or Bendix 6385, you can try after warranty. Otherwise the fitted NOS GE 5670W (not selected five star, just ordinary) are as good as it gets.


----------



## abvolt

Any takers on my above question, this amps been out now for what nearly a year did a google not that many reviews why..Thanks


----------



## Khragon

abvolt said:


> Thinking seriously about this amp what's the consensus of this board is it worth 1700.00 ? and how would it sound in compairison with my wa22 with the right tubes is mighty hard to beat thanks...enjoy




With WA22 you will need to invest another $800 on tubes for it to sound good. I can't say much since it's been more than 2 years since I owned a WA22, with WE422 rectifier, tungsol bgrp 6sn7, and tungsol 5998, it sounded pretty good, good clarity, maybe a tad better than the ican pro, but I don't think it beat the ican in dynamics, even when comparing to the ican tube mode.


----------



## abvolt

Thank you..


----------



## kikouyou

abvolt said:


> Thank you..


 

 So what are you going to do?


----------



## abvolt

Well with the new reviews I've read I'll be getting this amp in the next few weeks..enjoy


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Has anyone compared the 3D Holographic feature with the crossfeed circuits of the Meier Corda Classic, Grace Design or SPL Phonitor?


----------



## drwlf

fastnbulbous said:


> Has anyone compared the 3D Holographic feature with the crossfeed circuits of the Meier Corda Classic, Grace Design or SPL Phonitor?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/827683/spl-phonitor-x-phonitor-e-impressions-and-tour-sign-up/45#post_13131780
 No full review yet though.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Thanks.
  
 11. Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate Box will be introduced, 1,700V Peak-Peak maximum output, Bias selectable for Stax HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi Sockets fitted.
  
 Any word on how much this will be?


----------



## drwlf

fastnbulbous said:


> Thanks.


 
  
 Thanks @grizzlybeast!


----------



## forestitalia

fastnbulbous said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 11. Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate Box will be introduced, 1,700V Peak-Peak maximum output, Bias selectable for Stax HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi Sockets fitted.
> 
> Any word on how much this will be?


 
 Is available yet? Can't find any info.


----------



## abvolt

forestitalia said:


> Is available yet? Can't find any info.


 
 This won't happen why would it..


----------



## technobear

abvolt said:


> forestitalia said:
> 
> 
> > Is available yet? Can't find any info.
> ...




Perhaps this photo of it at CanJam in October is a clue:



Must be close now.


----------



## abvolt

very nice can't wait to get my hands on this amp..


----------



## gr8soundz

abvolt said:


> very nice can't wait to get my hands on this amp..


 
  
 The iCan Pro is back on my list too.
  
 Saw it for $1299 at Adorama some weeks ago. Hopefully I can get the amp in a month or two if it goes on sale again.


----------



## abvolt

awesome I'll be sure to check them out, wow get this amp for that price would be sweet..


----------



## iFi audio

Today we have a story for you all. It's about 'em tubes. Yes, again. But please bare with us, this tale really is special. You'll see soon enough...
  
  
*The (5670) electron valve. It matters. - Part 1/3*
  
  
 Every audio aficionado likes 'em Electron Valves and for a number of reasons. The two most obvious ones are their influence on the sound itself and highly appealing aesthetics. Some of you might dislike the look of glowing glass and since this matter is highly subjective one, we won't focus on it. The rest though, well, that's a completely different story.
  
 Our latest headphone amplifier - the Pro iCan - is loaded with a pair of GE5670 JAN double triodes. OK, there's a ton of valves out there. Therefore this question is in order: why we use this one specific type from this specific manufacturer? Now that's a story to be told. Here we go then.
  

  
 Behold the WE396A double triode by Western Electric. These small critters were introduced in 1946 and shortly replaced by their 6922 variants. The former is the pinnacle, almost unfindable these days. The scenario isn't that grimm when it comes to the latter type. But as it turned out, there is one sonically as good model and made to very strict specifications - the GE JAN 5670 NOS type. It was under the radar of the audiophiles' scope for many years.
  

  
 GE stands for General Electric manufacturer, which is self-explanatory. Said company was responsible for Electron Valves production for decades and is well-known for the quality of its products.

 Moving on, JAN is the service branch of the US Armed forces and said three letters stand for Joint Army & Navy. Electron Valves marked as JAN were made for the Army/Navy (the airforce had to have their own naturally) and had to pass the most rigorous testing procedures at that time.

 The Russian parallel system was OTK, which means "Отдел технического контроля" or technical control department. Even the Russian system was very decent as one does not wish for Mach 3 Jet Fighters at 100 million ruble a pop to be falling out of the sky on account of poor Electron Valves. This translated into modern money would be ~350 Million USD - the same as the F-22 Raptor today! And yes, it used Electron Valves for a lot of critical electronics.
  
 It packed a targeting Radar so powerful it was a crime to even turn it on except in combat or exercise. It would kill small mammals at several 100 feet (microwaved to death). 
  

  
_Side Note: The Mig-25 Foxbat (a Mach 3+ jetfighter that scared the poop out the USAF at the time and inspired the Clint Eastwood film, ‘Firefox’ was no cheap junk (even if it was not as rad as the Firefox). _
  
 Germany/Europe never had an equivalent system, they got either JAN electron valves with US equipment (including export versions) or German Postal electron valves (CCa, C3g, D3a etc.) made in...Germany.

 The British Empire had (surprisingly) its own inter-service system for military electron valves, it came into force in 1941. The British generally used civilian electron valves (and later transistors) that were tested and certified for military use. British Military electron valves are identified by the letters CV (Common Valve) and a number.
  
 Generally JAN/OTK marked electron valves are more rugged, have very tight technical parameters and much less variation, yet are at the same time compatible with civilian types. German/European Postal electron valves in general were dedicated designs with the singular exception of the Cca and equally ruggedised. British and Chinese used selected (or not) civilian electron valves for military applications.
  
_Stay tuned, there's more..._


----------



## abvolt

nice info thanks I'll be getting this amp in a few weeks..


----------



## murphythecat

is there by any chance someone who compared the ican pro to the headamp of the ifi retro 50?


----------



## cav1sa

Found a worthy companion for my trusty sennies hd 650 - the Focal Elear. Stand back CIEMs, we're switching to high power today!


----------



## BarDash

cav1sa said:


> Found a worthy companion for my trusty sennies hd 650 - the Focal Elear. Stand back CIEMs, we're switching to high power today!


 

 Nice, what DAC are you using?


----------



## cav1sa

> Nice, what DAC are you using?


 
 "Just" an iDSD micro for now, sounds good to me!


----------



## BarDash

This may sound like a dumb question but does the iCan automatically go into stand-by mode if it's not used continuously? Sorry if this has been answered before.


----------



## cav1sa

bardash said:


> This may sound like a dumb question but does the iCan automatically go into stand-by mode if it's not used continuously? Sorry if this has been answered before.


 
 No, it doesn't, sadly. I really like this feature in the iDSD especially since it synergizes with my active monitors' exact same feature. It's a small inconvenience though, it doesn't use THAT much power and tubes last much longer than my LTRs


----------



## BarDash

cav1sa said:


> No, it doesn't, sadly. I really like this feature in the iDSD especially since it synergizes with my active monitors' exact same feature. It's a small inconvenience though, it doesn't use THAT much power and tubes last much longer than my LTRs


 

 I think the tubes shut off or go into SS mode after not being used for awhile. (Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm off) Also from what I understand Class A amps can notoriously use quite a bit of power. (Again someone with more knowledge than I can comment please)


----------



## cav1sa

bardash said:


> cav1sa said:
> 
> 
> > No, it doesn't, sadly. I really like this feature in the iDSD especially since it synergizes with my active monitors' exact same feature. It's a small inconvenience though, it doesn't use THAT much power and tubes last much longer than my LTRs
> ...


 
 When you temporarily switch to SS, tubes don't immediately turn off to prevent undue stress from frequent turning off and on. The amp itself won't turn itself off on its own.
 What I do find quite strange is how ridiculously feature-rich the iDSD Pro is shaping up to be, almost to the point of making the ICAN Pro unnecessary for thrifty audiophiles. Perhaps they complement each other somehow?


----------



## BarDash

cav1sa said:


> When you temporarily switch to SS, tubes don't immediately turn off to prevent undue stress from frequent turning off and on. The amp itself won't turn itself off on its own.
> What I do find quite strange is how ridiculously feature-rich the iDSD Pro is shaping up to be, almost to the point of making the ICAN Pro unnecessary for thrifty audiophiles. Perhaps they complement each other somehow?


 

 My thoughts as well on the iDSD. Although I didn't have the patience to wait. I ended up getting the Yggy, which really pairs well with the iCAN Pro IMO.


----------



## cav1sa

bardash said:


> My thoughts as well on the iDSD. Although I didn't have the patience to wait. I ended up getting the Yggy, which really pairs well with the iCAN Pro IMO.


 
  
 That's an elegant-looking device. Does the multibit DAC makes a significant impact vs regular DACs? Is it similar to what Chord have been doing or am I may be way off here?


----------



## Khragon

bardash said:


> My thoughts as well on the iDSD. Although I didn't have the patience to wait. I ended up getting the Yggy, which really pairs well with the iCAN Pro IMO.


 
 What are the iDSD features as it stand now?  Anyone got a link to the list?


----------



## BarDash

khragon said:


> What are the iDSD features as it stand now?  Anyone got a link to the list?


 
iFi Audio Pro iDSD discussion thread Preliminary specs are on the first page but I'm sure I've seen an update. Just haven't been on this thread in a while.


----------



## BarDash

cav1sa said:


> That's an elegant-looking device. Does the multibit DAC makes a significant impact vs regular DACs? Is it similar to what Chord have been doing or am I may be way off here?


 
 Don't know about other DACs but the multibit makes a big difference in my opinion on the Schitt DACs. I own the Modi Multibit (&Yggy) and for a small "inexpensive" DAC consensus seems to say it's a huge difference which I'm in agreement with.


----------



## gr8soundz

cav1sa said:


> What I do find quite strange is how ridiculously feature-rich the iDSD Pro is shaping up to be, almost to the point of making the ICAN Pro unnecessary for thrifty audiophiles. Perhaps they complement each other somehow?


 
  
 How true. Seems the only benefits of the iCan Pro will be the extra balanced outputs, xbass and 3d (which are so far absent from the iDSD Pro despite the iDSD Micro having them), and connections for the ESL attachment.
  


bardash said:


> Don't know about other DACs but the multibit makes a big difference in my opinion on the Schitt DACs. I own the Modi Multibit (&Yggy) and for a small "inexpensive" DAC consensus seems to say it's a huge difference which I'm in agreement with.


 
  
 I'm planning to buy my first (full) multibit dac in the next month or so. Who knows when the iDSD Pro will ever be released and no idea how much multibit architecture it'll have (the iDSD Micro is a hybrid multibit dac).
  
 Still considering the Mimby but might go something else that's DSD capable. Similar to the Yggy, does the Modi Multibit take days to warm up and do you have to always leave it on?


----------



## BarDash

gr8soundz said:


> How true. Seems the only benefits of the iCan Pro will be the extra balanced outputs, xbass and 3d (which are so far absent from the iDSD Pro despite the iDSD Micro having them), and connections for the ESL attachment.
> 
> 
> I'm planning to buy my first (full) multibit dac in the next month or so. Who knows when the iDSD Pro will ever be released and no idea how much multibit architecture it'll have (the iDSD Micro is a hybrid multibit dac).
> ...


 

 To me it sounds better warmed up so I leave it running continuously. However IMO it only took a couple of hours before the sound got to where I thought it was at its best. Mine does not run hot at all,  in fact mildly warm so I never shut it off unless I'm going to be away for a few days. The Yggy is warmer than the Mimby but still not hot.


----------



## iFi audio

*The (5670) electron valve. It matters. - Part 2/3*
  
 In many ways the 5670 when introduced was a revolutionary electron valve. Ostensibly an RF device for VHF use, thanks to a usable frequency range to 800MHz it also offered good linearity, low harmonic distortion and low-noise in audio applications. Yet the 5670 electron valves never really went into audio gear much. Why?
 First, being a relatively expensive electron valve to make made them less attractive for mass production.
  
 Second, they saw wide military equipment use, including fire control computers and communication systems.
  

  
 So before the late 80's the US Military & Nato stockpiled most of the production. Production of the 5670 ended in the 1980’s almost completely, so stockpiles were retained until the equipment they supported was removed from inventory in the latter part of the 90’s.
  
 Third, and in addition, the 5670 uses a non-standard pinout. If one looks at 12AX7, 12AU7 or 6DJ8/6922, all of these have an identical or very similar pinout. The 5670 pinout is radically different. Electrically and in terms of internal design it is very similar to the 6DJ8/6922 which became very popular in American high end audio gear, but one can't plug it into a 6922 socket.
  

  
 Well, physically it's doable, mechanically the 5670 will plug into a 6922 socket, yet the result may be deadly for the Preamplifier/Amplifier as heater and anode pins are mixed up, shorting out the high voltage power supply. Just don’t go there girlfriend.
  
 Now let's add the price factor to the mix. Military parts always cost at least 10 more in comparison to identical civilian parts. Which for 5670 model meant that no-one designed audio gear with these electron valves during the golden age of Valve Audio.
  
 After the military blew out these stocks from their warehouses when the cold war ended (those cavernous places like the one shown at the end in Indiana Jones "Raiders of the Lost Ark")...
  

  
 ...still very few people used them, as they couldn't be plugged into existing gear due to the non-standard pin-out. Long story short, NOS 6922 became very popular and their rare cousins worth 100's of Dollars while no-one wanted the 5670.
  
For the last 25 years plus dealers and audiophiles have been depleting very limited 6922 NOS stocks and that's why today it is next to impossible to find decent electron valves of this sort. And what about the unloved but excellent 5670? It sat nice and snug in warehouses like the proverbial Ark of the Covenant waiting for someone to discover it. That would be first of all Eric Barbour of Vacuum Tube Valley Magazine (but his article was also widely ignored) and then us.
  
_Stay tuned, there's more..._


----------



## etc6849

Pro iDSD Q1?



ifi audio said:


> _Stay tuned, there's more..._


----------



## iFi audio

etc6849 said:


> Pro iDSD Q1?


 
  





  
 As much as we'd like to, we can't spill 'em beans just yet.


----------



## technobear

ifi audio said:


> etc6849 said:
> 
> 
> > Pro iDSD Q1?
> ...




I hope that at least the prototype that we've seen will be at Bristol.


----------



## bluesaint

ifi audio said:


> As much as we'd like to, we can't spill 'em beans just yet.


 
 We don't need the beans spilled, but what's the highest level of detail you can provide?
  
 If you can't answer Q1, what about 1st half of 2017?  If can't answer that, what about 2017?  Or 2018?  Any answer however vague helps those that are deciding on a DAC if they want to wait or whether the features they need are available on iDSD pro or not.  Most of us are current owners of iDSD Micro/BL, so please deal us a solid.


----------



## abvolt

Excellent read thanks..


----------



## loplop

ifi audio said:


> h34r:
> 
> As much as we'd like to, we can't spill 'em beans just yet.




Reading between the lines, this means iDSD Pro won't be dropping in Q1. 

I suppose ifi had trouble getting the iDSD Pro to sound better than the iDAC2, and suspect that all the waiting will be worth it. 

I'm going to add an iTube2 to my iDAC2 while I wait for this thing.


----------



## gr8soundz

The iCan Pro is back on sale at adorama for $1300. Still too soon for me to grab one but great deal for anyone interested.
  
 https://www.adorama.com/ifproican.html?sdtid=9686224&emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


----------



## Aleatorius

gr8soundz said:


> The iCan Pro is back on sale at adorama for $1300. Still too soon for me to grab one but great deal for anyone interested.
> 
> https://www.adorama.com/ifproican.html?sdtid=9686224&emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905




Not sure if that's a link with an affiliate ID so here's a shorter link that was posted last time. 

https://www.adorama.com/ifproican.html?emailprice=t


----------



## frogmeat69

Showing price at $1699.00


----------



## Aleatorius

I opened a window in incognito and tried another browser and I could see the price as $1299, maybe you need to clear your cache? Try copying and pasting the link as well instead of clicking.


----------



## gr8soundz

frogmeat69 said:


> Showing price at $1699.00


 

  
 Adorama is known for making separate links to deal prices. Searching for the item or using another link will get you the regular price. Even if you add the deal to your cart then click on the item (from the cart) it will show regular price. Their site/deals have been that way for years.


----------



## BarDash

Just got this email, although I already own it. ☺


----------



## gr8soundz

kikouyou said:


> Here is a link to the deal.
> I just ordered it, it works.
> 
> https://slickdeals.net/f/9283639-ifi-pro-ican-headphone-balanced-tube-amplifier-1299-free-shipping


 
  
 We've come full circle. That's where I found out about the deal.


----------



## masterlibrarian

Hi guys, newbie to the forum here !
 I am also considering to buy the IFI Pro iCan for my cans and I would like to listen to your opinion. For the record the cans I mostly use are either the HD800S or the LCD2.2F but I also occasionally listen to the HD700 and the Fidelio X1 as well. My current rig is a Gungnir Multibit -> WA7 fireflies (single ended of course). As I would like to go fully balanced I am considering either a WA22 , a Mjolnir 2 (LISST and Tubes), the IFI Pro iCan or even a Rag.
 With my current setup and especially the amp part I think I am missing a lot in detail, openness and in general I feel the WA7 although a decent amp, is still pulling my cans and dac behind especially HD800S and LCD2.
 What would you suggest considering I would love to be able to drive both bright and dark headphones to their best ?
 Please also keep in mind that It is not always easy to audition these amps (except the IFI one) as they are not available in Greece at the moment.
 Thanks a lot !


----------



## BarDash

masterlibrarian said:


> Hi guys, newbie to the forum here !
> I am also considering to buy the IFI Pro iCan for my cans and I would like to listen to your opinion. For the record the cans I mostly use are either the HD800S or the LCD2.2F but I also occasionally listen to the HD700 and the Fidelio X1 as well. My current rig is a Gungnir Multibit -> WA7 fireflies (single ended of course). As I would like to go fully balanced I am considering either a WA22 , a Mjolnir 2 (LISST and Tubes), the IFI Pro iCan or even a Rag.
> With my current setup and especially the amp part I think I am missing a lot in detail, openness and in general I feel the WA7 although a decent amp, is still pulling my cans and dac behind especially HD800S and LCD2.
> What would you suggest considering I would love to be able to drive both bright and dark headphones to their best ?
> ...


 

 Welcome! I own the IFI Pro iCan as well as the HD800S, LCD3 and can say that it drives them well. On occasion with a very Hi Res file with the LCD's playing particularly loud I've had to switch the gain on. But in "normal" conditions I don't need to even use the gain.


----------



## loplop

masterlibrarian said:


> Hi guys, newbie to the forum here !
> I am also considering to buy the IFI Pro iCan for my cans and I would like to listen to your opinion. For the record the cans I mostly use are either the HD800S or the LCD2.2F but I also occasionally listen to the HD700 and the Fidelio X1 as well. My current rig is a Gungnir Multibit -> WA7 fireflies (single ended of course). As I would like to go fully balanced I am considering either a WA22 , a Mjolnir 2 (LISST and Tubes), the IFI Pro iCan or even a Rag.
> With my current setup and especially the amp part I think I am missing a lot in detail, openness and in general I feel the WA7 although a decent amp, is still pulling my cans and dac behind especially HD800S and LCD2.
> What would you suggest considering I would love to be able to drive both bright and dark headphones to their best ?
> ...


 
 I love the iCan Pro>LCD3 pairing.  For me, that headphone wasn't all that impressive until I paired it with the iCan Pro.  Previously I had used it with my Audeze Deckard, which is a great match for the LCD2f, but just couldn't bring out the best in the LCD3.  The iCAN Pro is fantastic with those headphones.  I only tried my LCD2f briefly with the iCAN Pro (I keep them at work, the iCAN Pro is at home) and the match seemed excellent.
  
 I haven't heard the HD800S/X1/HD700 but I can't see why the iCAN Pro couldn't drive anything you'd be likely to acquire.  That said, you mention "bright and dark headphones" and I want to caution you that the iCAN Pro is not a "tone control."  It does have a sound unique to it, as do all amplifiers, but it isn't a generalized tone control.  All the preamps you can choose (Solid State, Tube, Tube+) have a similar tonal quality.  Yes, they sound different; and I have found it is fun to find out which headphones pair best with which mode (it sometimes surprises you!), but this isn't a "take a HD800, use Tube+, and roll off the highs" sort of thing.  IMO this is a very good thing, and shows a strong design direction for how ifi thinks an amp should sound.  
  
 In any case: you can always use EQ.  I think any amp in the higher price brackets will be similar in that regard, unless they offer tone controls (maybe a Leben?).  The XBass and 3D switches are not tone controls.  I'd say the ifi is on the slightly warm side of neutral, in a very pleasing way, so it's likely to pair with almost any headphone well.
  
 HTH


----------



## iFi audio

masterlibrarian said:


> Hi guys, newbie to the forum here !
> I am also considering to buy the IFI Pro iCan for my cans and I would like to listen to your opinion. For the record the cans I mostly use are either the HD800S or the LCD2.2F but I also occasionally listen to the HD700 and the Fidelio X1 as well. My current rig is a Gungnir Multibit -> WA7 fireflies (single ended of course). As I would like to go fully balanced I am considering either a WA22 , a Mjolnir 2 (LISST and Tubes), the IFI Pro iCan or even a Rag.
> With my current setup and especially the amp part I think I am missing a lot in detail, openness and in general I feel the WA7 although a decent amp, is still pulling my cans and dac behind especially HD800S and LCD2.
> What would you suggest considering I would love to be able to drive both bright and dark headphones to their best ?
> ...


 
  
 Hi! Welcome to Head-fi.org and sorry about your wallet


----------



## iFi audio

*The (5670) electron valve. It matters. - Part 3/3*
 
With new old stock 6922 and equivalent disappearing and getting more and more expensive, what happened to the unloved but excellent 5670?
 
5670 valves became somewhat popular when Shanling made CD-players and electron valve amps years back which used the Chinese 6N3, a Chinese copy of the soviet 6N3P (often incorrectly written as 6H3PI) which was the Soviet version of the 5670. As few people knew about the possibility to swap the 5670 for a 6N3 the good stuff mostly remained in storage.

 Needless to say, now the 5670 cat is out of the bag as a workable NOS 6922 substitute, AMR/iFi Audio have bunkered the content of one of these military warehouses for future use. With either the correct socket wiring (which our Pro iCAN sports) or an adapter (like used for our NOS 6922 replacement) they will be hunted to extinction within a few years by all the ‘electron valve hounds’ of audiophilia... Grab 'em while you can.
 

 
So there you have it, GE JAN 5670 NOS is a marvelous piece of glass built to last (100,000 hours’ of lifespan are easily possible if the electron valve is operated conservatively), with marvelous sound quality. The very best among what's currently available for the money. Yes, you can go even higher. But it's not only just an expensive journey to be had; the money is the smallest issue actually.

 The main problem is in availability and origin of the various Western Electric & Bendix 6N3 equivalents. Yes, counterfeits are out there, you've been warned.
 
*Glass going on record*
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Makers of 5670/2C51/ECC40 on record:  (we are not going to do a sonic ranking between the valves in each category - waaay too subjective).
 
Best
·         WE USA (as 396A) (there are D and O getter versions) - probably the best of the lot but good luck in finding original           'good' ones from reputable sellers for £££
·         Bendix USA (as 6385) - very rare and hyper expensive
·         GE 5670 USA - as used in AMR CD 777 SE/DP-777SE & iFi Pro Series/Tube2/iTube 
 
Middle
·         Raytheon USA
·         Tung Sol USA
            Old Soviet 6N3P-EV OTK marked Stock
 
Worst
·         Soviet Russia 6N3P civilian type (marked in Cyrillic so looks like 6H3П)
           China (as 6N3)
 
The 5670/2C51 has similar data and application as the later European ECC88 and variants, so European valve makers concentrated on that type of valve.
 
Some valves marked "England" have been sighted, these appear mostly remarked Russian units.
 
Sylvania also made a 5670 which was also seen remarked as ‘Mullard’ but it isn't a true Mullard as they never made this version of valve, just a rebranding job.
 
To conclude, with the AMR CD/DP-777 SE or iFi iCAN Pro/iTube/iTube2/NOS 6922, we would not spend our hard earned cash on anything but the WE396A or Bendix USA.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 
Note 1 - some background, the 5670/2C51 from a technological point of view, the "premium version" of the 6922electron valve. Better design, strong plates, lower microphonics etc etc...
So if you have the 6922, you can roll the valves in your non-iFi device and get better sonics but with the 5670/2C51 family using adapters, you are already running with the big guns.
 
Note 2 - the 5670 and 6922 have the same physical pins but are not directly interchangeable as they different fundamental designs.

 The AMR CD/DP-777 SE use 6922 Pinout and adapters to convert the 5670 to 6922 pinout, so both 6922 and 5670 with adapter can be used. The iFi iCAN Pro/iTube/iTube2 have the sockets wired only for 5670, you cannot insert a 6922.
 

 






Moving on, one might think that if magnificent 5670electron valves as we use in our product are quite available, then something's off. But that's not the case. As we've said above, this electron valve has ‘flown’ under the radar for many years, 6922 and alike were much more popular. Yet popularity isn't an indication of what's good.

 From a purely technical side, GE JAN 5670 NOS valves are the best ones we could find in large batches enough to be commercial.
 

Excellent consistency of electron valves between batches
Glass is thicker than usual,
Controlled warm-up
Tight specifications on grid current,
Low noise and microphonics and exceptional longevity
  
And since genuine military grade New Old Stock 5670electron valves are reasonably well available (unlike many desirable electron valves), it'd be a shame not to exploit their potential. Hence we exploit as much as we can, fully aware of what GE JAN 5670 NOS performs and sounds like.
 

 
At iFi Audio we always strive to find the best parts for tasks given. This is not lip service – we ruddy well mean it!
 
We experiment with lots of components from a number of manufacturers, measure, audition and once extensive research is gathered, we cherry-pick. If every component’s related decision would be as simple as it was with GE JAN 5670 NOS, our engineering lives would be much easier and we’d spend a lot more time in the pub!
 






 In conclusion, this electron valve has an incredible price-to-performance ratio, it honestly doesn't get much better than this. We've been there, we've done that – we’ve got the t-shirt and the blinking key ring.
 
You're of course free to experiment with our Pro iCAN past warranty period. But it's highly unlikely that you'll find anything better for sane money. Please trust us on this one; our Skin, she does not joke around when it comes to sound quality.


----------



## kikouyou

Great article, what is sonically the difference between the 396A "D" and "O" ?


----------



## iFi audio

kikouyou said:


> Great article, what is sonically the difference between the 396A "D" and "O" ?


 
  
 Both are good and any differences between them are small.
  
 The only possible reason why O and D-getter holders should sound different could be different microphonics (yet we doubt this is a factor, though). The other conceivable reason is that when structure of the getter holder changed, the same thing happened with other areas too, maybe cathode coating etc. This might lead to valves a little different electrically in a consistent way.
  
 It seems the D-getter varsions are really rare (even compared to "average" WE396A) which makes them more valuable to collectors and thus higher priced. Up to you whether you'd like to jump onto that pricey wagon


----------



## loplop

Great choice on the 5670, @iFi audio , and a most excellent implementation on the iCAN Pro.  I like your strong direction of not overly "tubey" sound yet with added organic-feeling richness (even against the rich sounding SS implementation).  Thumbs up.


----------



## iFi audio

loplop said:


> Great choice on the 5670, @iFi audio , and a most excellent implementation on the iCAN Pro.  I like your strong direction of not overly "tubey" sound yet with added organic-feeling richness (even against the rich sounding SS implementation).  Thumbs up.


 
  
 Yup, that's what we aimed for!


----------



## kikouyou

So I got my unit yesterday, I started listening SE with my LCD4 yesterday (Balanced cable ordered) and today Balanced with the HE1000. I could do some A/B comparison with the MicroZotl2.0 (I have a switch box to do so as it is so hard to do A/B with plugging and unplugging). This little amp is very impressive. Almost to the level of the MZTL. without its bells and whistle activated.
 The XBass and 3D are very well implemented and the 3 modes (Static, Tube and Tube+) are excellent. All these features are changing the sound with small increments so they are very useful to tune the amp depending on the source indeed. Overall I am very happy with this purchase. I am keeping it.
 Today I tried the HE1000 balanced and did some comparison Balanced and SE. Balanced in very noticeably better. I am looking forward to get my XLR cable for the LCD4.
 But I got a little problem. I had one channel that became noisy today (scratches) even without signal and I discovered that my Balanced and Left Jack connections where the one where this issue was audible even without signal... I changed the cables and same results... only the Right SE connector works without those noises.
 So I called Adorama today and this unit is going back to them. I had to place a new order to get a replacement unit ASAP. They will refund the first unit when they get it...
  
 For those interested the MZTL is more transparent and has somewhat a wider soundstage compared to normal settings and static mode. The sound seems also more extended on the MZTL. Indeed when activating the tubes modes, the gap narrows but not completely. And when activating xBass and 3D the iCan goes beyond the sound of the MZTL even at the first level of 3D or xBass, but without making it too gross, it is actually helping depending on the sources. The Balanced mode is a great plus for soundstage as the MTZL does not have it. I guess that in Balanced mode I will prefer the iCan. 
 The flexibility of this amp is remarkable. The only negative point is that I could activate easily the protection mechanism with the LCD4 even without having the feeling to push the amp. But I was in SE. Maybe things will improved balanced.


----------



## Audio-Phile

Very interested in your impressions w/the LCD4 in balanced. Just purchased a pair and am strongly considering this amp based on all I've read so far.


----------



## kikouyou

My second Pro iCan arrived yesterday. There is a mix go good and bad news.
  
 Good news:
 - The new units doe not make noise on the right channel. It seems to work just fine sonically.
 - The new unit does not exhibit the strong tendency of the first unit to go in overload even without input signal when moving the XBass and 3D buttons. (red led blinking)
  
 Bad news:
 - The 2 orange lens below the tubes are not lighting up (I do not really care about that). From a probability stand point this is not good for Quality Control at iFi...
  
 The first unit SN is 328, the second unit SN is 358
  
 More listening with the HE1000 balanced against the MicroZotl 2S showed that deep bass is narrower on the iCan but can be adjusted to larger at the +10Hz setup of the XBass. The Bass enhancement is still keeping the bass tight and under control. The adjustment is subtle. The transparency is a edge better on the MZTL when the iPro is in Tube+ mode, but that difference is very small. The soundstage is a bit wider on the MZTL even with the iPro in balanced. But nothing major and the 3D adjustment can come to the rescue of soundstage somewhat.
 In Tube mode, transparency seems equivalent. You have to trade transparency and euphony between Tube and Tube+ mode. That will depend on what source you listen.
 Static mode is very fast and clean, but I am more a tube listener, so this is not for the majority of what I listen. Tube mode is less dry but still very fast.
  
 I will also use this amp for travel as it is so small and it will do just great. Pls note the MZTL is really exceptional, so getting close to this level is very good.
  
 Next will be listening in balanced mode with the LCD4


----------



## loplop

@kikouyou I've had quite a bad run with ifi QC, as well. Out of 7 various ifi units purchased in the last 2 months, 2 were defective, 1 has minor issues (oddly, my replacement Pro, like you), and 1 may be defective. 

My first iCAN Pro was defective (heavy distortion), my second iCAN Pro sounds great, but pops when I switch XBass on and off (first one didn't). Ifi says that's normal, I find it odd since the first one didn't do it. I also noticed the tube under the window doesn't glow orange-it's definitely on (I can see the heaters lit if I look at an oblique angle, and it works fine which wouldn't be true if one Tube wasn't fired up), but doesn't glow brightly like the first unit. I didn't realize there's a fake light underneath  I am not bothered enough to send yet another Pro back, it sounds good and I just want to enjoy music... 

My first iDAC2 was totally defective in one channel, producing huge an loud static, near hearing damaging levels. Scared the hell out of me. Second one is fine. 

The new iCAN SE I received last week is humming when I touch the toggles on the front (grounding issue). Still waiting to hear back from ifi if this is normal, but since none of my other ifi products do this, I suspect I have yet another defective unit. 

I either have really, really bad luck, or...

Pro content: I most often use my LCD3 (2016 production) with the Pro, balanced. It's a great pair, and I like both Tube and Tube+ quite a bit with them. SS sounds better with my LCDX, which also sounds great in Tube. It's a great (sounding) amp. I use the 10hz XBass sometimes, haven't really dug into 3D much as it messes with the timbre too much for my liking... but I'll revisit as time marches on.


----------



## kikouyou

loplop said:


> @kikouyou I've had quite a bad run with ifi QC, as well. Out of 7 various ifi units purchased in the last 2 months, 2 were defective, 1 has minor issues (oddly, my replacement Pro, like you), and 1 may be defective.
> 
> My first iCAN Pro was defective (heavy distortion), my second iCAN Pro sounds great, but pops when I switch XBass on and off (first one didn't). Ifi says that's normal, I find it odd since the first one didn't do it. I also noticed the tube under the window doesn't glow orange-it's definitely on (I can see the heaters lit if I look at an oblique angle, and it works fine which wouldn't be true if one Tube wasn't fired up), but doesn't glow brightly like the first unit. I didn't realize there's a fake light underneath
> 
> ...


 
  
 Would love to see a comment from ifi about these 2 Leds that are not firing up. I do no care about them, but as the unit is not "on spec" per se because of this issue, I am wondering if there are any other hidden issues with this unit. I am using it SE IN and Balanced or SE OUT mainly for full cans. I have a different system for my CIEMS.
  
 Your second unit has the same issue as my first unit poping as you said when XBass was switched on even without input signal...
  
 Sounds to me that there is something ifi should tell us about the probability of our current units to fail...
 Their over-current system seems sophisticated, maybe too much for mass production?
  
 As per your distortion or my scratch noise problem on one channel, these sounds to me more like bad soldering that should be spotted by QA. I have not opened the unit not to mess up with the warranty, but there is a chance i could have visualy spotted the issue... The fact that the 2 leds are down is also not a sign that the 2 leds are defective, but most probably that they are not getting power... Maybe a missing strap on the board during assembly.... or an electronic switch that is undersized for these leds and blew up.
  
 One more comment on the 2 units I had: the defective one seems to become way warmer than the second unit...
  
 Too bad that such a great design is spoiled with poor manufacturing...


----------



## ed7090

Mine is sn 332.
 The tube section died within a month...
 At first the tube mode triggers unit into error mode in mid-gain volume @6oclock
 but soon it just went straight into the fatal red at lowgain or whatsoever
 However no pops were made when switching xbass & 3D buttons
  
 Solid state remains fine tho, and it is absolutely beautiful sounding
 Good thing is that it does't lose the rich sounding nature on ss
 I love how it pairs up with my th900.
  
 Man... I don't know if I should return the unit or not
 I might just get another one with different issues...


----------



## loplop

It's likely the quality issue seems bigger in scope than reality because those of us with problems have found our way here 

At least one hopes. I like ifi's sonic priorities, style, value, and find the ifi gear I've purchased allows me to enjoy music and the experience of listening. Moods, musical genres, and seasons change, and I appreciate their approach to offering sonic choices to the listener. Yet all that said, I am very frustrated by my recent experiences, and have wasted an enormous amount of time in the process. Eventually, if my seemingly bad luck with ifi gear continues, I'll go elsewhere. Yet I just bought iTube2/iCAN SE to complete a second all-ifi system for another room in my home, so clearly I'm not there yet. 

@ed7090: I'm not sure what ifi does when you send it back to be fixed, maybe they just replace with new instead of repairing. If so, you might as well go back to the vendor. You'd likely get a quicker response replacing via the vendor and in fact that is what ifi support suggested I do with my defective unit. 

FWIW, my SN was 345, new one is 417.


----------



## ed7090

loplop said:


> It's likely the quality issue seems bigger in scope than reality because those of us with problems have found our way here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the advice.
 I think I will go back to the vendor and get it fix. ehh. Its gonna be hard to live without it for weeks.


----------



## rickyleelee

the pro ican auto shuts down the tube section when not in use. the leds below the tubes go off afaik. the support system is pretty good. what did the suport people? not many companies have good product support. you should try there and if you are not happy post here but trouble shot with them first to those in the know.


----------



## technobear

rickyleelee said:


> the pro ican auto shuts down the tube section when not in use. the leds below the tubes go off afaik. the support system is pretty good. what did the suport people? not many companies have good product support. you should try there and if you are not happy post here but trouble shot with them first to those in the know.




http://support.ifi-audio.com/


----------



## iFi audio

kikouyou said:


> My second Pro iCan arrived yesterday. There is a mix go good and bad news.
> 
> Good news:
> - The new units doe not make noise on the right channel. It seems to work just fine sonically.
> ...


 
  
 There are many variables, but the gist is that we need to know more. Hence we ask you to use our STS system, which can be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com
  
 This is the fastest way to do reliable diagnostics remotely.


----------



## kikouyou

ifi audio said:


> There are many variables, but the gist is that we need to know more. Hence we ask you to use our STS system, which can be found here: http://support.ifi-audio.com
> 
> This is the fastest way to do reliable diagnostics remotely.


 
  
 Done, lets see what more this will tell us...
 The only additional info requested was about me not about the unit...


----------



## loplop

kikouyou said:


> Done, lets see what more this will tell us...
> The only additional info requested was about me not about the unit...


 

 I'm curious what you decide to do about it, if anything.  I currently feel loathe to get yet another (3rd!) unit just because my tube LED's aren't lighting up and I get a pop when switching xBass on and off--mine doesn't trigger protection, at least that I have noticed, and it sounds fine...
  
 Now if I had a tube section not working as ed7090, I'd definitely return for another.


----------



## kikouyou

loplop said:


> I'm curious what you decide to do about it, if anything.  I currently feel loathe to get yet another (3rd!) unit just because my tube LED's aren't lighting up and I get a pop when switching xBass on and off--mine doesn't trigger protection, at least that I have noticed, and it sounds fine...
> 
> Now if I had a tube section not working as ed7090, I'd definitely return for another.


 

 I have no intent to return this unit that sounds good and operates Static, Tube, Tube+, XBass and 3D without any issues (no pop), and is less warm than my first unit. There are too many chances to get another bad unit instead of this one .
 It seems that our units operate in the same way, which is not far from how they should be (Led issue aside)
 If iFi acknowledges that the Leds are not powered, can explain what is going on and that this is not an issue, I am good with not retuning this unit.
 If they offer a return to further investigate, they will have to send a new one to me so that I can triple check the new one is ok before returning the one I have.
 A bit what I did with Adorama, but on my expense (I had to buy a second unit, wait to return the first unit so I could compare them and now wait for the refund on the first unit after shipping it).


----------



## loplop

kikouyou said:


> I have no intent to return this unit that sounds good and operates Static, Tube, Tube+, XBass and 3D without any issues (no pop), and is less warm than my first unit. There are too many chances to get another bad unit instead of this one .
> It seems that our units operate in the same way, which is not far from how they should be (Led issue aside)
> If iFi acknowledges that the Leds are not powered, can explain what is going on and that this is not an issue, I am good with not retuning this unit.
> If they offer a return to further investigate, they will have to send a new one to me so that I can triple check the new one is ok before returning the one I have.
> A bit what I did with Adorama, but on my expense (I had to buy a second unit, wait to return the first unit so I could compare them and now wait for the refund on the first unit after shipping it).


 

 Thank you, keep us posted!


----------



## kikouyou

Latest developments. After repeating what I wrote within this forum but on the support platform from ifi and something like 6 back and forth communications, we are at a point where I stated what could be acceptable to me i.e. send me a new unit, I will test it against the one I have and decide if it is good enough. And ifi is ignoring this and proposing to pick up my unit, get it back to the factory to look at it and either repair it or send a new one at this point. This indeed does not work for me... as my current unit works just fine except the 2 fake lamp Leds within the box to show in a exaggerated way that the lamps are on... I would not take the risk to get again in an exchange loop because of any other issues stated above...  
 I am still waiting for Adorama to refund the first unit I got and which I sent back a week ago or so....


----------



## gr8soundz

kikouyou said:


> Latest developments. After repeating what I wrote within this forum but on the support platform from ifi and something like 6 back and forth communications, we are at a point where I stated what could be acceptable to me i.e. send me a new unit, I will test it against the one I have and decide if it is good enough. And ifi is ignoring this and proposing to pick up my unit, get it back to the factory to look at it and either repair it or send a new one at this point. This indeed does not work for me... as my current unit works just fine except the 2 fake lamp Leds within the box to show in a exaggerated way that the lamps are on... I would not take the risk to get again in an exchange loop because of any other issues stated above...
> I am still waiting for Adorama to refund the first unit I got and which I sent back a week ago or so....


 
  
 Sad to hear about those issues with multiple iCan Pros. Ifi makes unique stuff and has good software support but hardware support is another issue. I went through that back/forth with a much, much less expensive iPower of theirs.
  
 I was still considering the iCan Pro until reading multiple head-fiers having problems with brand new units. The amp is far too expensive for that to be happening. Hopefully iFi officially addresses it and gets yours 100% working.


----------



## kikouyou

gr8soundz said:


> Sad to hear about those issues with multiple iCan Pros. Ifi makes unique stuff and has good software support but hardware support is another issue. I went through that back/forth with a much, much less expensive iPower of theirs.
> 
> I was still considering the iCan Pro until reading multiple head-fiers having problems with brand new units. The amp is far too expensive for that to be happening. Hopefully iFi officially addresses it and gets yours 100% working.


 

 Despite that, when you get one that works, it is very cool


----------



## technobear

kikouyou said:


> Latest developments. After repeating what I wrote within this forum but on the support platform from ifi and something like 6 back and forth communications, we are at a point where I stated what could be acceptable to me i.e. *send me a new unit, I will test it against the one I have and decide if it is good enough*.




I do not know of any manufacturer anywhere in all of my very long born days who has ever done this. There probably is one somewhere to prove me wrong but hey ho. It is not reasonable.




kikouyou said:


> And *ifi is ignoring this and proposing to pick up my unit, get it back to the factory to look at it and either repair it or send a new one at this point*.




That is the way warranty service usually works. Perfectly reasonable.

Alternatively you can return it to your dealer for an exchange or refund.

Sorry but you are the one who is trying to reinvent the World here and it isn't going to work. Nor can you expect any sympathy for whinging about it on Head-Fi.


----------



## jeffhawke

technobear said:


> I do not know of any manufacturer anywhere in all of my very long born days who has ever done this. There probably is one somewhere to prove me wrong but hey ho. It is not reasonable.
> That is the way warranty service usually works. Perfectly reasonable.
> 
> Alternatively you can return it to your dealer for an exchange or refund.
> ...


 
 Totally agree. However, these frequent failures should be properly addressed by the iFi Audio quality control team, lest they lose potential customers (like me) who might turn to the Hugo TT instead for just about the same price (once you add a proper DAC like the much talked about future Pro iDAC).


----------



## technobear

jeffhawke said:


> technobear said:
> 
> 
> > I do not know of any manufacturer anywhere in all of my very long born days who has ever done this. There probably is one somewhere to prove me wrong but hey ho. It is not reasonable.
> ...




They aren't frequent though are they?

It's just that endless whining on this forum makes it *look* like there are many. In fact they are just a handful out of thousands.

Compared to some manufacturers around these parts, that is platinum standard.


----------



## jeffhawke

technobear said:


> They aren't frequent though are they?
> 
> It's just that endless whining on this forum makes it *look* like there are many. In fact they are just a handful out of thousands.
> 
> Compared to some manufacturers around these parts, that is platinum standard.


 
 We have no way of knowing how frequent actual complaints are vs units sold, unless someone has access to iFi Audio's internal sales stats. I sure hope, for iFi Audio's sake, that they are selling "thousands" and therefore raking up millions, didn't read many complaints about Chord though ('xcept about pricing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## loplop

Hard to know how many have been sold in total. The serial numbers with reported problems seem very close together (328, 332, 345, 358, 417). 

My #417 sounds fantastic, and unless it develops a sonic flaw, I'm going to live with the non-lighting tube LED's and XBass that thumps when you switch it on and off. I'm not confident enough in ifi support to deal with the back & forth and wasted time & effort at the moment, so I'll just enjoy the thing as is.

And it is a very enjoyable amplifier. A glutton for punishment, I'd like to add both the iDSD Pro and Energizer module someday.


----------



## gr8soundz

technobear said:


> I do not know of any manufacturer anywhere in all of my very long born days who has ever done this. There probably is one somewhere to prove me wrong but hey ho. It is not reasonable.
> That is the way warranty service usually works. Perfectly reasonable.
> 
> Alternatively you can return it to your dealer for an exchange or refund.
> ...


 
  
 No need to label someone just for posting about their experience. If you don't agree that's ok but I wouldn't say he's whining when 3 other head-fiers posted about similar issues with _multiple_ iCan Pros on the previous page alone. They even specified serial #s in case there was a bad batch.
  
 Once the return period expires you have no choice but to deal with the manufacturer.
  
 Some manufacturers cover the costs of rma shipping but not iFi. My iPower failed twice and paying 2x shipping costs isn't worth it to get a working 'refurb' of a $49 product. In the end, I never actually got a working part.
  
 The iCan Pro, on the other hand, is very different but it doesn't seem very Pro of iFi when multiple users complain about _both_ defects _and_ warranty concerns for a $1700 product.


----------



## Trogdor

audio-phile said:


> Very interested in your impressions w/the LCD4 in balanced. Just purchased a pair and am strongly considering this amp based on all I've read so far.




I had exactly that for a few weeks. Review is up.


----------



## drwlf

trogdor said:


> I had exactly that for a few weeks. Review is up.


 
  
 Thank you for the lovely review, refreshing to see some other genres pop up there for a change.


----------



## Trogdor

drwlf said:


> Thank you for the lovely review, refreshing to see some other genres pop up there for a change.




Thanks for reading and remember: Diversity is the spice of life!


----------



## drwlf

trogdor said:


> Thanks for reading and remember: Diversity is the spice of life!


 

 I should probably check your site more often.


----------



## rickyleelee

Nice to read something different with different tunes. Just wish some people would talk to a manufacturer straight and stop looking for attention and sympathy from others on a forum. If manufactuturer didn't reply to email or support the product fair enough but some people just love to criticise and do zip to lift a finger. People just love to tweet to get attention. mmm guess who started that trend.


----------



## rickyleelee

ifi do you ban negative posters? You should say something because other brands do and so their threads stay clean with endless positive only comments. I don't like censors in hong kong we are have high sensitivity so on this point I don't buy from those who censor their threads as I detest this control.. anyone else know if iFi audio bans negative posters? especially whinners?


----------



## jeffhawke

rickyleelee said:


> ifi do you ban negative posters? You should say something because other brands do and so their threads stay clean with endless positive only comments. I don't like censors in hong kong we are have high sensitivity so on this point I don't buy from those who censor their threads as I detest this control.. anyone else know if iFi audio bans negative posters? especially whinners?




I didn't know manufacturers could ban posters, I thought only moderators could do that. If it is so, i.e. if manufacturers can ban posters without the active involvement of a moderator (which I don't think is actually the case, btw), then I'm outta here


----------



## Khragon

jeffhawke said:


> I didn't know manufacturers could ban posters, I thought only moderators could do that. If it is so, i.e. if manufacturers can ban posters without the active involvement of a moderator (which I don't think is actually the case, btw), then I'm outta here


 
 Probably on their own forum, rather than here.


----------



## iFi audio

rickyleelee said:


> ifi do you ban negative posters? You should say something because other brands do and so their threads stay clean with endless positive only comments. I don't like censors in hong kong we are have high sensitivity so on this point I don't buy from those who censor their threads as I detest this control.. anyone else know if iFi audio bans negative posters? especially whinners?


 
  
 In short, a big fat no. We never banned anyone and not intend to. Even though we get the odd complaint here and there, we prefer an open and free thread when talking about ifi gear - even if it is to our detriment sometimes because of the storm in a tea cup syndrome! That is what our STS is for and they are really nice and understanding. 
  
 To be perfectly honest though, at times we were tempted to bash some people. But then again, ten calm breaths later common sense takes over again.


----------



## forestitalia

It always surprises me how company PRs spend lot of time writing in forums but not a minute to answer customers emails. Not referring specifically to IFI case here, just in general is what always happens to my emails: no response.


----------



## loplop

rickyleelee said:


> Nice to read something different with different tunes. Just wish some people would talk to a manufacturer straight and stop looking for attention and sympathy from others on a forum. If manufactuturer didn't reply to email or support the product fair enough but some people just love to criticise and do zip to lift a finger. People just love to tweet to get attention. mmm guess who started that trend.




Each person who expressed issues above had contacted ifi. Make of that what you will. 

iCAN Pro content: I continue to enjoy the flexibility. I have lately started to listen more to SS mode; when I first got the iCAN Pro, I really only used Tube and Tube+. But I've also listened to a lot of iDSD BL lately (solo), and have grown to enjoy the ifi SS sound; the iCAN Pro definitely sounds like a relative of the iDSD BL, in a good way. So I've found myself exploring and enjoying SS mode more often.


----------



## chaojiliqilin (Sep 6, 2017)

I just bought my ican pro and it works fine! Trying to burn in!


----------



## abvolt

Is there a better power supply available for the pro from ican, don't like the wall wart, I can't see one on their site, I have not bought this amp yet..thanks & enjoy


----------



## GHoldridge

abvolt said:


> Is there a better power supply available for the pro from ican, don't like the wall wart, I can't see one on their site, I have not bought this amp yet..thanks & enjoy



Yes the Ican pro comes with the 15v 4a power plus which you cannot buy separately, at least as of now. It's basically a high quality small power brick.


----------



## gr8soundz

abvolt said:


> Is there a better power supply available for the pro from ican, don't like the wall wart, I can't see one on their site, I have not bought this amp yet..thanks & enjoy


 


gholdridge said:


> Yes the Ican pro comes with the 15v 4a power plus which you cannot buy separately, at least as of now. It's basically a high quality small power brick.


 
  
 IFi's iPower supplies (when working) are some of the cleanest non-battery solutions out there. The unique 4A version that comes with the iCan Pro makes it harder to substitute (the iPower units sold separately max out at 2.5A).
  
 Unless you plan to swap it for an expensive, linear psu with batteries you'll probably end up adding more power-line noise to the amp.


----------



## rigo

gr8soundz said:


> IFi's iPower supplies (when working) are some of the cleanest non-battery solutions out there. The unique 4A version that comes with the iCan Pro makes it harder to substitute (the iPower units sold separately max out at 2.5A).
> 
> Unless you plan to swap it for an expensive, linear psu with batteries you'll probably end up adding more power-line noise to the amp.


 
  
 Do you recommend to connect it straight into the wall outlet or power conditioner?


----------



## abvolt

Thanks for all the info..


----------



## gr8soundz

rigo said:


> Do you recommend to connect it straight into the wall outlet or power conditioner?


 
  
 I wouldn't connect ANY of my desktop audio equipment direct to the wall. Don't have the iCan Pro but I did use an iPower and extra power conditioning doesn't hurt plus, afaik, no desktop amps have built-in surge protection.


----------



## loplop

chaojiliqilin said:


> Hi loplop
> ,
> 
> I just bought my ican pro and I read your description about the tube LED issue. I observed my device and I found that if I vertically look down through the window, I cannot see any light(as picture one shows). If I looks at 45 degree, I can see the orange light from the tube. I cannot see the same bright light as is shown in http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/17997
> ...



This is how my 2nd unit is. My first one lit up like the linked photo. I assume this means the LEDs are not working, but I haven't (and won't) opened it up to verify. luckily, these are just for show and have no impact on the (fantastic) sound. 



rigo said:


> Do you recommend to connect it straight into the wall outlet or power conditioner?



I recommend plugging direct into the wall. I've been doing so for decades, and have never met a power conditioner that sounds better than directly plugged (for an amp, at least).


----------



## JMR77

My second day enjoying this unit. Yesterday I tested it with a Pioneer XDP-300R as a source/DAC (the iFi provided bigger/fuller sense of sound as expected), today testing the iFi with the Chord Mojo (excellent pairing) connected to my work laptop.

The 3D knob and the tube options are too addictive and work well with a closed headphone such as the T5P (2nd Gen).

Sometimes I don't mind working late at the office:


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

If they will have a 6922 board/plug adapter a lot of people will be more happy. It will be more fun (and CCa will be more scarce). 

Schiit people allows it (tube rolling).

We'll if you (iFi) insist during warranty, but after that...


----------



## Linntroika

Day 3 with the ifi pro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , my HD800s have finally come alive , it really is one hell of an amp . Any suggestions from long time users of Pure Music , Amarra ,Audirvana as to which one is best and why ?
 Rest of setup is Imac ,jitterbug, chord mojo,ifi pro, Hd800s 
  
 Many thanks


----------



## jeffhawke

linntroika said:


> Day 3 with the ifi pro
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I tried Amarra, PureMusic, Audirvana, Vox and BitPerfect on my Mac Mini, and the last two are my favourites. I had numerous problems with Amarra and PureMusic importing my library, less so with Audirvana. Vox is very versatile, user friendly, minimalistic but plays all formats and is FREE! BitPerfect sets you back ten bucks and is not a standalone app, but piggybacks in iTunes: very effective, it's like putting a turbo on iTunes, allowing it to play all formats seamlessly (DSD and the like included). Next on my list to try is JRiver.


----------



## technobear

linntroika said:


> Day 3 with the ifi pro :happy_face1:  , my HD800s have finally come alive , it really is one hell of an amp . Any suggestions from long time users of Pure Music , Amarra ,Audirvana as to which one is best and why ?
> Rest of setup is Imac ,jitterbug, chord mojo,ifi pro, Hd800s
> 
> Many thanks




Here you go:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/812521/best-computer-audio-player-software/15

Sixteen pages and counting that will leave you none the wiser.

Let's keep this thread about the iCAN Pro.


----------



## project86

Hello all, just popping in to post a link to my review at InnerFidelity. I'm VERY impressed with what iFi has accomplished with this little thing. Put it up against some big guns from Simaudio, Auralic, Violectric, and Pass Labs, and it was not blown away by any means.... and all those amps cost more. Substantially more in some cases. iFi has a winner on their hands with this one.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

I am at loss with this or Wells Audio Milo. Hmmmm decisions, decisions..

Thank you for the wonderful review.

Now if it is really true they say that a good LPS has a marginal effect on the iCan Pro. Nobody measured its PS brick.


----------



## abvolt

project86 said:


> Hello all, just popping in to post a link to my review at InnerFidelity. I'm VERY impressed with what iFi has accomplished with this little thing. Put it up against some big guns from Simaudio, Auralic, Violectric, and Pass Labs, and it was not blown away by any means.... and all those amps cost more. Substantially more in some cases. iFi has a winner on their hands with this one.


 
 Excellent review I've been wanting this amp since it's release..


----------



## rickyleelee

project86 said:


> Hello all, just popping in to post a link to my review at InnerFidelity. I'm VERY impressed with what iFi has accomplished with this little thing. Put it up against some big guns from Simaudio, Auralic, Violectric, and Pass Labs, and it was not blown away by any means.... and all those amps cost more. Substantially more in some cases. iFi has a winner on their hands with this one.




Nice review. informative - I showed it to a few friends who are evaluating a few headamps. I have borrowed the Auralic and its sonic signature was too plain boring for me. And it cost more money.


----------



## JMR77

Do you guys hear a little “pop” noise or sound cut while listening to music when using the 3D know and toggling between the 3D modes? the little noise (or sound cut) just occurs when switching between 3D modes, thanks


----------



## loplop

jmr77 said:


> Do you guys hear a little “pop” noise or sound cut while listening to music when using the 3D know and toggling between the 3D modes? the little noise (or sound cut) just occurs when switching between 3D modes, thanks


 

 I do when using the XBass switch, more of a thump that a pop, I'd say.  I contacted ifi Support, and they said that pops and thumps are to be expected and nothing that indicated a fault or problem in the amp.
  
 I have since stopped paying attention to it, and it hasn't seemed to cause any harm, so I will take their word for it and go on listening to the wonderful sound


----------



## bidn

disastermouse said:


> Has anyone tried out this amp with the Focal Utopia? I'd be interested in this as an 'endgame' (for me) amp and the Focal Utopia as an 'endgame' headphone, and then maybe replacing my Bifrost MB with an Yggy at some point and just being 'done'.


 
  
 Hi Disastermouse,
  
 I have been using the Ifi iCAn Pro to drive the Utopia since the beginning of October 2016, four months from now.
 A fantastic combo!!!
 Go for it !!


----------



## cycle53x12

Does anyone have any impressions of this amp with HD800 and Audeze LCD XC.
 I have been looking at this amp as well as the Auralic Taurus. I like the fact that the ifi ican has more adjustments to the sound.
 Also has this amp been reliable?
 Thanks


----------



## project86

cycle53x12 said:


> Does anyone have any impressions of this amp with HD800 and Audeze LCD XC.
> I have been looking at this amp as well as the Auralic Taurus. I like the fact that the ifi ican has more adjustments to the sound.
> Also has this amp been reliable?
> Thanks


 
  
 I really enjoyed it with HD800 and LCD-3 (sorry, no LCD XC). It's great to be able to tune it as your mood changes - go solid state mode for clarity on excellent recordings, or tube mode with XBass turned on if you want a fun, less accurate presentation.


----------



## technobear

cycle53x12 said:


> Does anyone have any impressions of this amp with HD800 and Audeze LCD XC.
> I have been looking at this amp as well as the Auralic Taurus. I like the fact that the ifi ican has more adjustments to the sound.
> Also has this amp been reliable?
> Thanks




The iCAN Pro partners superbly with the LCD-X. It actually manages to make the LCD-X sound musical which is a rare treat indeed.

I don't see why it wouldn't work just as well with the LCD-XC.


----------



## murphythecat

The Pro Ican sounds very good. its quite shocking how much more control you feel it has over the headphone drivers.
  
 I really like the pro ican amp with hd800. the hd800 negative clinical aspect is greatly reduced.
  
 but really, Utopia + Pro ican is a match made in heaven.
  
 the xbass on the pro is more refined then on the micro ican.


----------



## cycle53x12

Thanks for the feedback. This sounds like a super flexible amp with all the adjustments. Now to find the funds for one!


----------



## loplop

technobear said:


> The iCAN Pro partners superbly with the LCD-X. It actually manages to make the LCD-X sound musical which is a rare treat indeed.
> 
> I don't see why it wouldn't work just as well with the LCD-XC.


 

 Haha!  The question is, can it make the Beyer T1 sound musical?  Now that would be a real feat 
  
 FWIW I like the LCD-X/iCAN Pro pairing (LCDX pairs well with all ifi amps, actually). 
  
HiFi+ just posted their review of the iCAN Pro.  No earth shattering revelations, just more agreement that it's a great amp, and apparently a great pairing with the Utopia.


----------



## syn959

Great to hear from others that it pairs well with Utopia and HD800. I just put in my order with Adorama today since they have it discounted. Can't wait to setup and listen!


----------



## LoryWiv

syn959 said:


> Great to hear from others that it pairs well with Utopia and HD800. I just put in my order with Adorama today since they have it discounted. Can't wait to setup and listen!


 
 Their web site lists full price. Where did you find the discount? Thanks, *syn959*.


----------



## syn959

lorywiv said:


> Their web site lists full price. Where did you find the discount? Thanks, *syn959*.


 
 Hi, I got the link from slickdeals: https://slickdeals.net/f/9866972-ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amplifier-1-299-00-fs-adorama?v=1&src=SiteSearch
  
 However, the deal seems to be over now. That was quick! According to the history, they seem to get discounted every two months or so. You can setup alert on slickdeals so you can get notified the next time.


----------



## bluesaint

Same, looks like deal's dead.  Seems when I set the alert on adorama side it never notifies me.  Setting it on slickdeals app now.


----------



## syn959

Sorry you guys missed it. Their deals normally last longer than a day.
  
 One other thing I noticed is that the deals posted on slickdeals for Adorama seems to only work when you click on the links posted in their threads. Must be some agreement with SD and Adorama. The discounted prices don't show up on Adorama's site if you just searched for the item even when the deals are live.


----------



## LoryWiv

OK, thanks for the heads up. I may set the alert on slickdeals as well.


----------



## qrtas

syn959 said:


> Great to hear from others that it pairs well with Utopia and HD800. I just put in my order with Adorama today since they have it discounted. Can't wait to setup and listen!




Do you know if they have had this discounted price before? In other words, do you think they will have this sale again?


----------



## syn959

qrtas said:


> Do you know if they have had this discounted price before? In other words, do you think they will have this sale again?




No guarantees, but according to SD history, the same deal was posted in late December and mid January. Also, in between they had combo deals with the amp and LCD-3. So very good chance you can pick up these discounted again


----------



## qrtas

syn959 said:


> No guarantees, but according to SD history, the same deal was posted in late December and mid January. Also, in between they had combo deals with the amp and LCD-3. So very good chance you can pick up these discounted again




Thanks  Fingers crossed  

Let us know when you listen to yours.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

syn959 said:


> Sorry you guys missed it. Their deals normally last longer than a day.
> 
> One other thing I noticed is that the deals posted on slickdeals for Adorama seems to only work when you click on the links posted in their threads. Must be some agreement with SD and Adorama. The discounted prices don't show up on Adorama's site if you just searched for the item even when the deals are live.


 
  
 Did you actually see the deal though? These SD notifications are user driven, so that doesn't make sense. It seems like maybe the SD notifcation was just created by a random user too late. I hope they'll have similar deals with the DSD and ESL once they're out.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Your best bet is to sign up for a sale alert directly at Adorama (see Sale alert on page - https://www.adorama.com/ifproican.html)


----------



## syn959

qrtas said:


> Thanks  Fingers crossed
> 
> Let us know when you listen to yours.


 
 Sure! Will try to post impressions and comparisons to my other gear.
  


fastnbulbous said:


> Did you actually see the deal though? These SD notifications are user driven, so that doesn't make sense. It seems like maybe the SD notifcation was just created by a random user too late. I hope they'll have similar deals with the DSD and ESL once they're out.


 
 The Adorama deals seems to be some agreement with SD and may not show up on their own site. It's weird that they would do that, but that's what I noticed in the past.The ppl that post the Adorama deals on SD are reliable.
  
 I had setup an alert for iFi since learning about this amp and received an email shortly after the post. I made the first post on the thread thanking the OP, and had a few laughs after reading some funny comments that normally accompany hiFi related posts on SD. I placed my order later that night.


----------



## drwlf

Out of curiousity, anybody seen any proper EU deals?


----------



## JMR77

I bought mine in Spain during last Black Fiday for 12XX Euros (retail price is 1900). Maybe they'll repeat a similar deal this year, hopefully for the iDSD Pro Dac too...


----------



## drwlf

jmr77 said:


> I bought mine in Spain during last Black Fiday for 12XX Euros (retail price is 1900). Maybe they'll repeat a similar deal this year, hopefully for the iDSD Pro Dac too...


 
 Which place, if you do not mind me asking? Do they ship online EU-wide? I actually visit Spain every few months, so even shipping nationally would suffice.


----------



## astralpen

The best I have heard by far...


----------



## JMR77

drwlf said:


> Which place, if you do not mind me asking? Do they ship online EU-wide? I actually visit Spain every few months, so even shipping nationally would suffice.




https://zococity.es/ifi-pro-ican 

The price now is 1950€. As I said it was a Black Friday offer, all retailers had it for around 1600€ for Black Friday, but someone made me note Zococity's offer and I couldn't resist it. It seems that zococity is Ifi's distributor for Spain, which would explain this discount.

Also, this amp works great with metal music, most albums don't have great mastering and the 3D knob helps to make them sound less "congested".


----------



## drwlf

jmr77 said:


> https://zococity.es/ifi-pro-ican
> 
> The price now is 1950€. As I said it was a Black Friday offer, all retailers had it for around 1600€ for Black Friday, but someone made me note Zococity's offer and I couldn't resist it. It seems that zococity is Ifi's distributor for Spain, which would explain this discount.
> 
> Also, this amp works great with metal music, most albums don't have great mastering and the 3D knob helps to make them sound less "congested".


 

 Oh, I actually know the place, and thanks! Checked out their Black Friday deals, but must've missed it, I'm almost certain I did look for it though. They had a pretty decent "VAT off" sale a few months back as well, gotta keep my eyes peeled.
 I guess I need to hear the 3d implementation to believe it!


----------



## qrtas

Can a 14.000 mW amp give more definition and extend the treble of the LCD3?


----------



## loplop

qrtas said:


> Can a 14.000 mW amp give more definition and extend the treble of the LCD3?


 

 Preferences and baselines for comparison differ, of course...  but I can say, in general, I really like the iCAN Pro/LCD3 combo.  If your source is good and matches your preference, the iCAN will not color it substantially.
  
 A great pair.


----------



## qrtas

loplop said:


> Preferences and baselines for comparison differ, of course...  but I can say, in general, I really like the iCAN Pro/LCD3 combo.  If your source is good and matches your preference, the iCAN will not color it substantially.
> 
> A great pair.


 
loplop,
  
 I currently have a Woo Wa22 amp. I really love this amp, however I am very interested in the iCan pro. If I can sell my woo, I'll get the iCan for sure.
  
 Based on all my readings it looks like the iCan could be my end-game amp.


----------



## syn959

I received my Pro iCAN from Adorama and spent a little time with it today to compare with my Schiit Mjolnir 2. With both in solid-state mode and with xbass and 3D turned off on the iFi I thought they sounded very similar. More similar than what I would have liked but I guess that’s not a bad thing since it would mean that both are fairly neutral amps. Unlike my Cavalli Liquid Carbon which to my ears gave a more airy presentation and in effect a wider soundstage.
  
 So with the iFi in SS mode and default settings, I like to think that the amp does not get in the way of the source and just provide raw power to drive the headphones.
  
 The magic with the iFi though, and one of the reasons why I purchased it, are the tweaks using xbass, 3D, and being able to switch from SS to tubes at a flick of a switch. Those things are what makes the Pro iCAN fun and special, and I’ll be playing with them more for sure.
  
 I’ll probably end up getting another DAC for the iFi in the near future. Hopefully, their iDSD will get released soon.
  
 For my comparisons both amps were connected to my Schiit Gumby using SE connections and Focal Utopia for headphones.


----------



## technobear

syn959 said:


> I received my Pro iCAN from Adorama and spent a little time with it today to compare with my Schiit Mjolnir 2. With both in solid-state mode and with xbass and 3D turned off on the iFi I thought they sounded very similar. More similar than what I would have liked but I guess that’s not a bad thing since it would mean that both are fairly neutral amps.




Please come back and tell us how this comparison goes when the iCAN Pro has 200 hours on the clock.


----------



## syn959

Just saw this on SD Link.
  
Pro iCan and LCD-3 for $2300 for anyone interested in combo.
  
 Updated:
  
 Pro iCan + LCD4 for $3995!


----------



## 1BADJAD

Ummm, not a review by any means...just my first thoughts/impressions of this beast of an amp/DAC.  It'll probably take me a bit to get there, since I tend to take the long approach.  First, I've been using and Auralic Stack (Vega + Taurus MKII) for approximately a year.  I love it far better than anything I owned before it (Woo WA7 + WA7tp, Burson Conductor SL and other lesser Dac/Amp combos).  I have a collection of headphones to include the HE1000 V2's, HD800's, TH900's and T1's and have sold off AKG 712's and Audeze LCD-2's (Fazor) that I didn't like as much as the aforementioned.  I was getting ready to sell my T1's as well to finalize my collection down to my favorite 3 sets of headphones.  I considered the T1's as great all around headphones, but they were no where near as good (in my very unprofessional opinion) as the HE-1000 V2's (same "all around" category for me), so I decided to put them up for auction.  OK...now to the ifi iCAN Pro.  I saw a special on Adorama a short while back for $400 off the retail price and couldn't resist pulling the plug...thanks Paypal Credit.  I didn't think it would even come close to competing with the Auralic Taurus MKII, but I missed having a tube amp and thought I'd give it a try.  It arrived the other day, and I put off doing anything with it for a couple of days.  Yesterday, I finally hooked it up my Auralic Vega DAC via RCA connectors and fired it up in tube mode (middle dial), 18dB (high) gain, 10Hz Xbass with 3D set to the "off" position and let it sit there for a while to warm up.  I broke out the T1's for a listen as I haven't used them in quite a while.  I couldn't believe my ears.  Right out of the box this thing sounded better with the T1's than my Taurus MKII without even burning the darn thing in.  I thought my ears MUST be playing tricks on me, so I did an A/B with the Taurus (both amps conveniently hooked up at the same time via XLR and RCA).  Yep....the ifi sounds better with the T1's, and not just by a little...a lot better.  To me, for comparisons sake, the T1's with the Auralic/ifi combo sound as good or better than the HE-1000 V2's with the Auralic stack.  The bass was more pronounced and the treble sibilance was gone.  I listened to tons of different music genres (DSD Dire Straits, HD Elton John, HD Eagles, HD Doobie Brothers, lossless Eminem, DMC OST, etc...you get the drift).  My guess (100% guess, since I don't know what the he#$ I'm talking about) is that the T1's were underpowered with the Taurus...is that even possible?  I've read many reviews that state the Taurus has plenty of power, even enough for the hard to drive HE-6's.  I was in audio nirvana for several hours yesterday...so much so, that I didn't bother trying the ifi with any other headphones and/or experimenting with any of my initial settings.  I just sat there listening with my jaw dropped.  I'm pretty sure the Auralic Vega has a lot to do with my listening pleasure, as it's a pretty incredible DAC.  I can't wait to try the ifi with my other headphones to see if I experience a sound improvement with those as well.  I'm  not sure what to think, as the Auralic stack was my "end game" setup.  I have to wonder just how good the ifi will sound after 100+ hours through it...can it get that much better?  Also, I'm very interested in reading replies to this threat now, because I want to see what others are experiencing what I did with their listening sessions with the ifi, since everyone's ears are different (mine happen to be OLD).  Wow....color me impressed!


----------



## loplop

syn959 said:


> Just saw this on SD Link.
> 
> Pro iCan and LCD-3 for $2300 for anyone interested in combo.
> 
> ...


 

 The email I got from SD initially said $3395...  That would have been insane!!  Yet when clicked it showed the $3995...  which is still good.  And shows the markup on Head Fi gear is quite large...


----------



## syn959

loplop said:


> The email I got from SD initially said $3395...  That would have been insane!!  Yet when clicked it showed the $3995...  which is still good.  And shows the markup on Head Fi gear is quite large...




Yup, good if you wanted both or even to flip. I agree, I said the same thing regarding markup on SD thread.


----------



## bluesaint

If anyone want to split let me know. I'll take the iCan Pro for $1k and someone can take the lcd4 for $3k


----------



## syn959

Just want to say Adorama customer service is pretty great. I had purchased the Pro iCAN a couple of weeks ago and I called them to see if they can offer me the LCD-4 at discount and they were accommodating.


----------



## boomtube

Can you order the Pro in black label color?


----------



## boomtube

...anyone have any experience with the Violectric V281 in comparison with the Pro?


----------



## technobear

boomtube said:


> Can you order the Pro in black label color?




No.


----------



## 1BADJAD

syn959 said:


> Just want to say Adorama customer service is pretty great. I had purchased the Pro iCAN a couple of weeks ago and I called them to see if they can offer me the LCD-4 at discount and they were accommodating.


 
 Hmmm...thanks for that.  I called them up this morning.  It took about 10 minutes to figure everything out, but they took the $1299 sale price off the iFi Pro iCAN and discounted the LCD-4's down to $2696, even though I purchased the amp more than a week ago.  I couldn't resist the LCD-4's at that price.  I can't wait to burn them in and put them through some serious testing.  SWEET!


----------



## syn959

1badjad said:


> Hmmm...thanks for that.  I called them up this morning.  It took about 10 minutes to figure everything out, but they took the $1299 sale price off the iFi Pro iCAN and discounted the LCD-4's down to $2696, even though I purchased the amp more than a week ago.  I couldn't resist the LCD-4's at that price.  I can't wait to burn them in and put them through some serious testing.  SWEET!




Congrats!  Sorry for our wallets. It's a great deal no matter how you look at it. Mine was delivered today in under 24hrs crazy fast. I hope to spend some time with them tomorrow or the weekend.

I'm trying to find what version I have, 100 ohm vs 200 ohm. Mine were made in Oct 2016.


----------



## 1BADJAD

syn959 said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh...good point.  Let me know as well....fingers crossed for 200 ohm.  I'd hate to have to send them to Audeze right after getting them.


----------



## syn959

Spent a couple of hours listening to the LCD-4 connected to Pro iCAN and Mojo today and it was very nice. Very detailed and transparent and nice depth. It was laid-back and less forward sounding as compared to Utopia which I like while working. Soundstage was wider as well compared to Utopia, but not as wide as HD800.
  
 I tried 9db setting at first with the amp and then switched to 0db setting later and found that it was plenty enough to drive the LCD-4. I also switched between SS and tube and tube added more body and warmth. I found that I preferred SS most of the time since to me the LCD-4 sounded warm to begin with.
  
 Strangely, I thought that the sub-base could use more weight, but it could have been my Mojo since I didn’t notice that from my Schiit Gumby before with the amp and Utopia. The sub-base from LCD-4 is supposed to be better from what I read. Will have to try with different DAC later.
  
 Overall a very nice pairing!
  
 @1BADJAD
 I’m still waiting to hear back from Audeze as to which version I have, but I think we have the 200 ohm since I read they switched around Feb 2016 or earlier. The headphones are super nice and comfortable. I was worried about the weight, but glad I found it to be non-issue even after a couple of hours. Hope you like yours!
  
 Edit:
 That was quick, Audeze customer service responded and said that all LCD-4s made after Feb 2015 are 200 ohm versions so we're golden!


----------



## 1BADJAD

syn959 said:


> Spent a couple of hours listening to the LCD-4 connected to Pro iCAN and Mojo today and it was very nice. Very detailed and transparent and nice depth. It was laid-back and less forward sounding as compared to Utopia which I like while working. Soundstage was wider as well compared to Utopia, but not as wide as HD800.
> 
> I tried 9db setting at first with the amp and then switched to 0db setting later and found that it was plenty enough to drive the LCD-4. I also switched between SS and tube and tube added more body and warmth. I found that I preferred SS most of the time since to me the LCD-4 sounded warm to begin with.
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent news, and thanks for the preview.  I can't wait....the anticipation is killing me.


----------



## bluenight

How much would ican pro improve the sound of chord hugo? Compared to if i would have my hd650 directly connected to the hugo?

I have an musical fidelity x-can v3 amplifier. Just have ordered a hugo.


----------



## 1BADJAD

bluenight said:


> How much would ican pro improve the sound of chord hugo? Compared to if i would have my hd650 directly connected to the hugo?
> 
> I have an musical fidelity v3 amplifier. Just have ordered a hugo.


 

 I have both (along with way too many other goodies to mention).  I'm not sure if "improve" is the right word, since the Hugo is so clear and detailed.  However, the iCAN has a richer, fuller sound (for lack of a better term) when compared directly to the Hugo.   I definitely prefer long listening sessions with the iCAN, if I had to choose between the two...fortunately, I don't have to.  I use the Hugo as my "go to" for all things portable.


----------



## bluenight

So your saying no big need to connect the hugo with rca to ican pro to make the hugo sound better with hd650?


----------



## 1BADJAD

bluenight said:


> So your saying no big need to connect the hugo with rca to ican pro to make the hugo sound better with hd650?


 
 My mistake.  I was referring to the Hugo's amplifier section alone, since the iCAN is strictly an amplifier.  I think the Hugo hooked up as a DAC only to the iCAN would sound incredible.  I haven't used the Hugo that way, since it's strictly portable for me.  I'm currently hooked up to an Auralic Vega DAC.  All of this is just my opinion and/or personal taste, as I don't consider myself an audiophile by any means.


----------



## bluesaint

If you plan on using HUGO as your DAC of choice for awhile, then $ is better spent elsewhere.  You'll hit the limit of HUGO's DAC section even with mid-tiered amps like Schiit MJ2, so going all the way up to iCAN PRO you'll probably hear very little difference from mid tier amps IMO.


----------



## bluenight

Yeah my plan is to use hugo as a home dac.
Which dacs would do better justice to the pro ican you think.
I live in Sweden and Schhiit isent very known here i cant find them in stores.


----------



## 1BADJAD

bluenight said:


> Which dacs would do better justice to the pro ican you think.
> I live in Sweden and Schhiit isent very known here i cant find them in stores.


 

 I haven't used the pro iCAN that much yet, but right out of the box, it paired excellently with my Auralic Vega....even better than the Auralic Taurus MKII amplifier, at least to my ears.  I have a lot of experimenting left to do (different headphones, different setups, etc), but I'm loving the iCAN a lot.  The Vega is currently the only desktop DAC that I have, so I really can't make any other recommendations.  I might hook it up to the Hugo at a later date and take a listen.  I'm curious now, but I'm guessing it won't sound as good as it does with the Vega.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Still nobody have tried to hook up the iCAN Pro on an LPS?

Just hard facts if there are differences or not. If there are, what are those or by how much. 

Thanks!


----------



## bluenight

1badjad said:


> I haven't used the pro iCAN that much yet, but right out of the box, it paired excellently with my Auralic Vega....even better than the Auralic Taurus MKII amplifier, at least to my ears.  I have a lot of experimenting left to do (different headphones, different setups, etc), but I'm loving the iCAN a lot.  The Vega is currently the only desktop DAC that I have, so I really can't make any other recommendations.  I might hook it up to the Hugo at a later date and take a listen.  I'm curious now, but I'm guessing it won't sound as good as it does with the Vega.


 Just read a swedish review of the vega. And they praised it alot, seems very good. 5 of 5 stars.

Would be great if you could compare it with the hugo connected to the pro.


----------



## 1BADJAD

bluenight said:


> Just read a swedish review of the vega. And they praised it alot, seems very good. 5 of 5 stars.
> 
> Would be great if you could compare it with the hugo connected to the pro.


 

 Will try to do that when I get the chance...very interested to see the outcome.


----------



## JootecFromMars

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Still nobody have tried to hook up the iCAN Pro on an LPS?
> 
> Just hard facts if there are differences or not. If there are, what are those or by how much.!




From the Pro iCAN manual:

"Tip: Any 9v to 18v DC power source with a minimum 60VA rating can be used with the Pro iCAN (including vehicular, RV and boat based 12V DC power). The Pro iCAN uses double-conversion power supplies that make it impervious to power supply noise and related problems. However, we strongly recommend the use of the included iPOWER Plus 15V. It o ers the latest in power supply technology and is better and cleaner than battery and aftermarket linear power supplies."

But would be interesting if somebody did try an LPS.

I have replaced the fig-8 power cable with a nearly two decade old Russ Andrews PowerKord I had laying around and that has added a whole bunch of airiness and cleaner bass to the sound of the device.


----------



## Linntroika

bluenight said:


> How much would ican pro improve the sound of chord hugo? Compared to if i would have my hd650 directly connected to the hugo?
> 
> I have an musical fidelity x-can v3 amplifier. Just have ordered a hugo.


 
 I cannot comment on the Hugo as i sold mine over a year ago(used it in my main hifi system- Naim/Shahinian) . Presently i have a Mojo with Hd800s , which is fine but i always felt the amp part of the Mojo was not getting the full potential out of the Sennheisers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 After auditioning various software (Amarra,Audirvana, Roon) i now run Pure music/ Itunes on my Imac - Mojo- Ifi Pro - Hd800s.
 How does it sound ?- Sublime
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, honestly the ifi has taken the performance to a new level(especially on tube mode) ,although the Mojo is the least expensive component of my setup its just fabulous, im still amazed by the audiophile quality you can attain from headphones


----------



## bluenight

@ Linntroika you are almost convincing me there to get a pro. Just one question left then.

How does this peform against other headphone amps in this price range, value for money? Are there better ones for same or less money. Not so much expert reviews out there? Would probebly be my end game if i got this.


----------



## Trogdor

bluenight said:


> @ Linntroika you are almost convincing me there to get a pro. Just one question left then.
> 
> How does this peform against other headphone amps in this price range, value for money? Are there better ones for same or less money. Not so much expert reviews out there? Would probebly be my end game if i got this.




In terms of ROI, it is really hard to beat the Pro iCAN IMO. Its performance across the board coupled with its I/O flexibility and choice of analog and digital output stages makes it my current favorite headphone amp.


----------



## Linntroika

bluenight said:


> @ Linntroika you are almost convincing me there to get a pro. Just one question left then.
> 
> How does this peform against other headphone amps in this price range, value for money? Are there better ones for same or less money. Not so much expert reviews out there? Would probebly be my end game if i got this.


 
 Honest answer is i have absolutely no idea how the ifi performs against any other amps  . This is my first serious headphone setup . Unfortunately where i live auditioning various manufactures is not a possibility , what drew me to the ifi pro , was the best of both worlds i.e- solid state & tube(+ the positive reviews it has received). I would presume on different headphones , solid state may be a preferred option , but reading on many forums , i wanted an amp that would suit my Sennheisers and may have the flexibility in-future to accommodate other makes of headphones. I would be more of a "musicality" kind of person with emphasis on the music sounding "real /alive" rather than accurate(which sometimes can be dull and boring ) On another forum there is a guy , know as Foot-tapper and this sort of sums things up for me , if my foot is tapping im in heaven and my current setup is definately "tapping"


----------



## bluenight

linntroika said:


> Honest answer is i have absolutely no idea how the ifi performs against any other amps  . This is my first serious headphone setup . Unfortunately where i live auditioning various manufactures is not a possibility , what drew me to the ifi pro , was the best of both worlds i.e- solid state & tube(+ the positive reviews it has received). I would presume on different headphones , solid state may be a preferred option , but reading on many forums , i wanted an amp that would suit my Sennheisers and may have the flexibility in-future to accommodate other makes of headphones. I would be more of a "musicality" kind of person with emphasis on the music sounding "real /alive" rather than accurate(which sometimes can be dull and boring ) On another forum there is a guy , know as Foot-tapper and this sort of sums things up for me , if my foot is tapping im in heaven and my current setup is definately "tapping"


 How does the combo hd800s and ican pro match? From what i have read bass isent there strongest quality on both those. You find it lacking?
Im consedering getting a hd 800s my self i have hd650 now.
Quote From
https://www.google.se/amp/s/headmania.org/2016/09/27/ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amplifier-review/amp/
"Bass

The bass presents good punch, decent depth and control, but it’s not what this amplifier does best and I didn’t find it very impressive here. However, it does a good job overall and I didn’t find it lacking."


----------



## bluenight

@ Linntroika do you think the combo hd800s and pro are a good match, no lacking in bass? Might get an hd800s myself.


----------



## Linntroika

bluenight said:


> How does the combo hd800s and ican pro match? From what i have read bass isent there strongest quality on both those. You find it lacking?
> Im consedering getting a hd 800s my self i have hd650 now.
> Quote From
> https://www.google.se/amp/s/headmania.org/2016/09/27/ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amplifier-review/amp/
> ...


 
  
  


bluenight said:


> @ Linntroika do you think the combo hd800s and pro are a good match, no lacking in bass? Might get an hd800s myself.


 
 I will admit that my Sennheiser Momentum's sound warmer and have a deeper bass(though not as well controlled) , but the soundstage , imaging, punchy bass, delightful mids & highs that the HDs possess more than make up for it , so for me they are a keeper (not to mention that they are the most comfortable headphones that i have ever worn)
 The Hd800s do take a while to break in properly (initially i bought them blind and on first audition was not blown away by them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), however after a full week continuous play they really started opening up with ample bass. The very best quality regarding the Hd800s are the soundstage and the ability to pick out instruments , these are real audiophile set of cans (see Z reviews  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ30iccVgRI), i think he sums them up pretty well
 I was not happy with the Mojo running the Sennheisers as i knew the DAC was to my liking , however the amp was not getting the best out of the Senns(it reminds me of having a really good set of speakers that only come into their own when powered by an appropriate amplifier), this is were the ifi pro was a "game changer"as they say
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The ifi pro sounds very natural and powerful offering a wide soundstage and enough bass to bring the house down, The best qualities i like about the ifi are you can tune the amp to your liking regarding bass and soundstage , whilst the amp sounding natural . The different modes are great depending on what type of music you like listening to , but what i really love about the combo is the ability to listen to music and forget that you have headphones on .(Many time i find myself dancing in the room , chilling out immersed in Music
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Another factor that surprised me quite a bit was the various software players .I ended up purchasing Pure Music as the vocals in particular , where forward and incredibly natural sounding
 So to sum up , i think the best thing for you is to audition before you buy , the ifi i surmise will be great on any set of high-end phones , as for the Senns only you can decide if the bass is as deep and powerful enough for you , but for me they are absolutely brill


----------



## bluenight

Thanks for all the great answers people i will be considering them.


----------



## Tom Blake

I am moving on to burning in the tube section of my iCAN Pro. Wow it gets really hot! The top cover is almost too hot to touch - much more so than when the amp is in SS mode. I would expect it to run warmer in tube mode but just wanted to check if this was normal behavior? It could serve as a space heater in my smallish office I use it in. Thanks!


----------



## Linntroika

tom blake said:


> I am moving on to burning in the tube section of my iCAN Pro. Wow it gets really hot! The top cover is almost too hot to touch - much more so than when the amp is in SS mode. I would expect it to run warmer in tube mode but just wanted to check if this was normal behavior? It could serve as a space heater in my smallish office I use it in. Thanks!


 
 I could probably fry an egg on mine, totally normal


----------



## Topspin70

Do they recommend leaving the amp on all the time? Heat = electricity = $. I might have to factor that cost into my budgeting for this thing.


----------



## syn959

topspin70 said:


> Do they recommend leaving the amp on all the time? Heat = electricity = $. I might have to factor that cost into my budgeting for this thing.


 
  
 There's no mention of leaving the amp on all the time in the manual and from past research it's recommended to not leave amps on all the time since most only need a few minutes to warm up. Most definitely don't do that to tube amps or in tube mode unless you like replacing them frequently.
  
 Unlike DACs which are recommended to be left on all the time since they take much longer to warm up to reach their peak. Like your Schiit Yggdrasil for example.


----------



## Topspin70

syn959 said:


> There's no mention of leaving the amp on all the time in the manual and from past research it's recommended to not leave amps on all the time since most only need a few minutes to warm up. Most definitely don't do that to tube amps or in tube mode unless you like replacing them frequently.
> 
> Unlike DACs which are recommended to be left on all the time since they take much longer to warm up to reach their peak. Like your Schiit Yggdrasil for example.


 

 Oh, that's good then. Indeed as you had noticed my yggy is best left always on. I do the same for my mR too which is hooked to a LPS. That's already 3 boxes pumping out heat 24/7. Adding an egg-frying hot Pro would be a bit much, but then I do recognise that that's nothing compared to some audiophiles with their Class A monoblocks. You could do roast with those things.


----------



## iFi audio

linntroika said:


> I could probably fry an egg on mine, totally normal


 
  
 Yup, class A has to be hot and there's no way around it.


----------



## Trogdor

syn959 said:


> Unlike DACs which are recommended to be left on all the time since they take much longer to warm up to reach their peak. Like your Schiit Yggdrasil for example.




No that's not true either.

The Yggy is *special* because it is a true multi-bit design, which requires exacting tolerance across resistors within its topology. By keeping it always powered on you keep everything operating at a very similar temperature (there are still slight variances though).

For most DACs however, particularly ones that use all-in-one chips like the ESS SABRE, you turn them on, they are ready to go (I'm sure someone can come up with a special case, but in practice, this is true).

Tubes amp though definitely need to be warmed up. Tubes don't operate in their optimal configuration until they heat up and the corresponding circuit around them too. That's so everything normalizes and operates a the best voltage. I find my Pro iCAN sounds gorgeous with just a little warm up (read: not hours, minutes).


----------



## qrtas

.


----------



## LoryWiv

Ready to pull the trigger on the iCan pro. I'd like to know whether adding the iPower adds anything to further reduce noise from the mains. If so, which voltage edition is compatible with the iCan pro? Thanks for thoughts from current owners.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

It has an included iPower Plus adaptor rated at 15v 4A.


----------



## Trogdor

lorywiv said:


> Ready to pull the trigger on the iCan pro. I'd like to know whether adding the iPower adds anything to further reduce noise from the mains. If so, which voltage edition is compatible with the iCan pro? Thanks for thoughts from current owners.




I think the Pro iCAN is ready to go as is.


----------



## Gibson59

Is anyone running an iCan Pro amp with a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit DAC?  
  
 I'm about to purchase a pair of HE1000 V2s and i'm currently using a Schiit Bimby/Lyr 2 stack at home (currently have he560s).  I was able to listen to my potential combo at Can Jam yesterday and it didn't wow me like the HE1000 V2s did from the iCan Pro.  However this was the setup at the Kitsune booth with an amazing DAC so i'm wondering if my more modest Bimby DAC combined with the iCan will still provide the excellent results i'm hoping to achieve.


----------



## Tom Blake

I am presently running my iCAN Pro with a Gungnir D-S DAC and am extremely happy with the results on my LCD-2's and Genelec M040 monitors. I have a used Gumby on the way though and am really looking forward to how that will perform in my system vs the Gungnir D-S. I assume they were running the Holo Audio Spring DAC with the iCAN Pro at the Kitsune booth? I really want to hear that DAC! If I were to ever upgrade from the Gumby it will likely be to that unit or the forthcoming iDSD Pro.


----------



## Gibson59

tom blake said:


> I am presently running my iCAN Pro with a Gungnir D-S DAC and am extremely happy with the results on my LCD-2's and Genelec M040 monitors. I have a used Gumby on the way though and am really looking forward to how that will perform in my system vs the Gungnir D-S. I assume they were running the Holo Audio Spring DAC with the iCAN Pro at the Kitsune booth? I really want to hear that DAC! If I were to ever upgrade from the Gumby it will likely be to that unit or the forthcoming iDSD Pro.


 
 Awesome setup.  Congrats and I'm envious of your incoming Gumby!  I'm still pretty new to the hifi game so I love my Bimby and I'm hoping it serves me well for a while.  I look forward to hearing your impressions when you get your Gumby.
  
 You are correct that it was the Holo Audio Spring DAC with the iCAN Pro at the Kitsune booth... what an amazing pairing.  By far my most enjoyable listening yesterday was through that setup using the HEKv2 and Utopia.  I could have sat there all day and been content.


----------



## LoryWiv

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> It has an included iPower Plus adaptor rated at 15v 4A.


 
 Ah, that's a nice inclusion. Thanks, *m-i-c-k-e-y.*


----------



## axtran

I'm sad that I didn't notice the Adorama deal until today.  Very interested in this amp!


----------



## tokendog

Just got the IFI ICAN Pro in from Audio46 in NYC and although a brief listen with the HD800s, I'm already impressed. It's a great synergy and seems thus far to give more of everything that the HD800s are great at without messing with the things that the HD800s aren't as good at.
  
 Coming from most recently an Audeze Deckard.
  
 Got a lot more listening to do but looking forward to hearing this with my Audeze Sines, E-L8s, and Fostex TH-900s. I imagine all of them will have the same excellent synergy due to the amps remarkable flexibility.


----------



## axtran

tokendog said:


> Just got the IFI ICAN Pro in from Audio46 in NYC and although a brief listen with the HD800s, I'm already impressed. It's a great synergy and seems thus far to give more of everything that the HD800s are great at without messing with the things that the HD800s aren't as good at.
> 
> Coming from most recently an Audeze Deckard.
> 
> Got a lot more listening to do but looking forward to hearing this with my Audeze Sines, E-L8s, and Fostex TH-900s. I imagine all of them will have the same excellent synergy due to the amps remarkable flexibility.


 
 Thanks for the impressions! I'm really, really close to buying one of these from Audio46 as well... I want to support them if I can.


----------



## tokendog

axtran said:


> Thanks for the impressions! I'm really, really close to buying one of these from Audio46 as well... I want to support them if I can.


 
  
 No problem at all! Yeah, Audio46 was excellent in terms of customer service and shipping time. I ordered on 4/9 and they shipped it first thing yesterday morning.
  
 The packaging and courier leaves a little to be desired though. USPS (personal preference, not a fan) and the packaging material seemed to be a mixture of whatever was available to fill the box. It varied from balls of plastic to some bubble wrap to everything inbetween. But it all arrived fine and appears to be working without issue.
  
 I'll try to update with more impressions once I have a lot more time with the amp. So far, very impressed!


----------



## axtran

tokendog said:


> No problem at all! Yeah, Audio46 was excellent in terms of customer service and shipping time. I ordered on 4/9 and they shipped it first thing yesterday morning.
> 
> The packaging and courier leaves a little to be desired though. USPS (personal preference, not a fan) and the packaging material seemed to be a mixture of whatever was available to fill the box. It varied from balls of plastic to some bubble wrap to everything inbetween. But it all arrived fine and appears to be working without issue.
> 
> I'll try to update with more impressions once I have a lot more time with the amp. So far, very impressed!


 
 Oh boy... I was looking at Audio-GD products, however the shipping to China and back for warranty support and spending a bunch of money on a questionable USB stack has me second guessing my plan. Furthermore, I kind of want to keep my DAC and Amp separated... and this Amp looks like it would handle my whole collection without breaking a sweat. Would likely sell off the rest of my gear and keep only my Bimby until the Pro iDSD comes out, since I'm all about matching aesthetics.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Has anyone experienced any distortion because the RCA connects in the preamp line out are loose? I've had some loud crackling, both when bumping the amp and cord, and turning the volume. I've tightened the sleeves on my monoprice RCA cable which may help, but need to test further.
  
 Probably using balanced cables would solve the issue too.


----------



## Chip B

IFI Appreciate all the detailed answers!  This has been very helpful and revealing!  Thank you!


----------



## Chip B

What DACs are folks pairing wit this amp?  Thoughts about any of the Schitts, Yggdrasil, Gungnir multi, Grace M920, Ayre Codex or PS Audio.  These are all ones I'm thinking of; right now using the IDSD BL.  Thanks!


----------



## LoryWiv

chip b said:


> What DACs are folks pairing wit this amp?  Thoughts about any of the Schitts, Yggdrasil, Gungnir multi, Grace M920, Ayre Codex or PS Audio.  These are all ones I'm thinking of; right now using the IDSD BL.  Thanks!


 
 I have both the iCan Pro & Matrix X-Sabre Pro DAC ordered. I will try to get some impressions up once it's all up and running.


----------



## tufundra

I have a Chord 2qute and a Ayre Acoustics running with my Ican pro. They are both excellent I don't know which one sounds better.


----------



## Topspin70

I would imagine an amp this transparent will let the true character of any DAC come through, which would mean the best DAC is the one which SQ we like most.


----------



## qrtas

Now that you guys are talking about DACs, would someone explain to me what is the "ifi pro idsd"?

Is it a DAC or a DAC/amp? I thought it was a DAC that will match the ifi Pro iCan amp, but I see it has a headphone input. I am confused.


----------



## technobear

qrtas said:


> Now that you guys are talking about DACs, would someone explain to me what is the "ifi pro idsd"?
> 
> Is it a DAC or a DAC/amp? I thought it was a DAC that will match the ifi Pro iCan amp, but I see it has a headphone input. I am confused.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread


----------



## ptolemy2k6

qrtas said:


> Now that you guys are talking about DACs, would someone explain to me what is the "ifi pro idsd"?
> 
> Is it a DAC or a DAC/amp? I thought it was a DAC that will match the ifi Pro iCan amp, but I see it has a headphone input. I am confused.


 
  
 I believe it's also a basic amp, if  you're in a pinch


----------



## qrtas

ptolemy2k6 said:


> I believe it's also a basic amp, if  you're in a pinch




Thanks


----------



## drwlf

qrtas said:


> Thanks


 

 The question has been answered in the iDSD discussion by @iFi audio, namely:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread/1620#post_13296765
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread/1605#post_13287517
 Can't remember if I've missed something else


----------



## iFi audio

drwlf said:


> The question has been answered in the iDSD discussion by @iFi audio, namely:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread/1620#post_13296765
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread/1605#post_13287517
> Can't remember if I've missed something else


 
  
 Spot on!


----------



## Faber65

Last Saturday I had the opportunity to test the iCan Pro at the Shanghai International Audio Video exhibition and I must say that I was really impressed about its versatility. 
I tested it with several types of headphones available in their room, and I was always able to find the optimal setting to enjoy them. 
The Pro iESL was just the icing on the cake. 
I definitely need to start saving money for an iCan Pro.


----------



## Gibson59

faber65 said:


> Last Saturday I had the opportunity to test the iCan Pro at the Shanghai International Audio Video exhibition and I must say that I was really impressed about its versatility.
> I tested it with several types of headphones available in their room, and I was always able to find the optimal setting to enjoy them.
> The Pro iESL was just the icing on the cake.
> I definitely need to start saving money for an iCan Pro.




Did you test with the HE1000 or Z1R? If so, what are your thoughts on the pairing?


----------



## Faber65

weissja36 said:


> faber65 said:
> 
> 
> > Last Saturday I had the opportunity to test the iCan Pro at the Shanghai International Audio Video exhibition and I must say that I was really impressed about its versatility.
> ...




Sorry but both of them were not available a the the show.


----------



## qrtas

I've been thinking of getting the Hd800s, however, I am afraid I won't like the thin bass many people talks about. How does the Xbass feature works on the Hd800s? Does it help giving a fuller and more enjoyable bass?


----------



## Cotnijoe

qrtas said:


> I've been thinking of getting the Hd800s, however, I am afraid I won't like the thin bass many people talks about. How does the Xbass feature works on the Hd800s? Does it help giving a fuller and more enjoyable bass?


 
  
 I found the 10 Hz and 20 Hz boost that the Pro iCAN has to work really well with the 800/800S. The 10 Hz boost, especially, provides a bit more authority and extension without actually touching the midbass or sense of slam. Getting into the 40 Hz boost I definitely starts affecting midbass and is a little overkill for my personal preference. The tube stages would also help with an overly think sound from the 800S.


----------



## qrtas

cotnijoe said:


> I found the 10 Hz and 20 Hz boost that the Pro iCAN has to work really well with the 800/800S. The 10 Hz boost, especially, provides a bit more authority and extension without actually touching the midbass or sense of slam. Getting into the 40 Hz boost I definitely starts affecting midbass and is a little overkill for my personal preference. The tube stages would also help with an overly think sound from the 800S.


 
 Thanks so much *Cotnijoe*


----------



## Faber65

cotnijoe said:


> qrtas said:
> 
> 
> > I've been thinking of getting the Hd800s, however, I am afraid I won't like the thin bass many people talks about. How does the Xbass feature works on the Hd800s? Does it help giving a fuller and more enjoyable bass?
> ...




Both those Senn's were at the exhibition and I purposely tried them. 
Even if I did not spent too much time with those headphones I had exactly the same feeling described by you.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

faber65 said:


> I tested it with several types of headphones available in their room, and I was always able to find the optimal setting to enjoy them.
> The Pro iESL was just the icing on the cake.


 
  
 What headphones were tested with the iESL?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Here's my take:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/18495


----------



## LoryWiv

Great review, *hisoundfi*. I just set up my iCan pro yesterday and 1st response is "wow." Although I tend to prefer an analytic, solid state type of sound I am pleasantly surprised by the Tube and especially Tube+ modes, using 3D at 60 to add a little "air" and enjoying the heck out of my music. More to follow and again, thanks for the great review!


----------



## iFi audio

Hisoundfi said:


> Here's my take:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-pro-ican/reviews/18495



Much appreciated! On a side note, did you know that these critters are good for most of us
 here?


----------



## Fink24

I have a question to the other iCan Pro owners: Does your input selector also have a bit of a wiggle?
I can move mine about 0,5 to 1mm left and right. (The function is not hinderd in any way, but considering the nearly 2000€ price tag, it is a little bit of a bummer)


----------



## Slim1970

Received my ifi Pro iCan yesterday. Currently I'm using the Mojo as my dac and I must this say the Pro iCan is a big step up from my previous unit the Oppo HA-1. The Pro iCan has the output and detail I was looking for when I bought the HA-1. So far I've just been getting a feel for the sound by doing headphone swapping with my LCD-3F's, HD 800S's, and the HE1000's V1 and it drives all of them with beautifully. I was quite surprised at how it drove the HD 800S's. I gave the HD 800S's a 10hz boost using the XBass control and boy does it make a difference. I love the flexibility of the Pro iCan. It works with very well with all my headphones. I think I found the One. Now I just need for ifi to release the iDSD Pro and I'm done.


----------



## technobear

https://audiobacon.net/2017/04/21/i...w-a-high-performance-fully-balanced-flagship/


----------



## Slim1970

technobear said:


> https://audiobacon.net/2017/04/21/i...w-a-high-performance-fully-balanced-flagship/


Nice review! I echo his sentiments about the Pro iCan's ability to make any headphone what you want it be. The added enhancements to the headphones sound are done so well you believe that the headphones you're wearing where originally made that way. I believe that this is what makes this amp so special and I haven't even broken mines in yet.


----------



## Armaegis

My review here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150183.0


----------



## Armaegis

I had the iFi Pro iCAN on loan for a few weeks and have assembled my notes below. They will remain mostly in point form, because no one wants to read an essay. I ran it through a fairly extensive gamut of different headphones and speakers.

Since there is a lot of "stream of consciousness" in these notes, it would be prudent to not examine any particular section by itself. At the very least, read the section immediately above it so you know where the relevant comparison is coming from.

Also be aware that in point form, my notes are very nitpickish. I do not dispense with pleasantries here, and my editing will be minimal. This is simply the style of my note-taking, so don't get your knickers in a knot if you disagree with something.


Main equipment used for evaluation:
Hifiman HE-6: well known as the most power hungry brute in the headphone world, and serves as my main reference can, low-ish impedance and stupid low sensitivity
Sennheiser HD650: my other reference can, and should be well known by most headphone users, high impedance and medium sensitivity
Sennheiser HD598: little brother of the HD650; horrible impedance curve
Nuforce HEM8: multi driver iem, low impedance high sensitivity
Fostex TH-x00 Purpleheart: closed, low impedance medium-high sensitivity
Bryston B60 - integrated speaker amp and my primary amp for the HE-6
Prism Lyra and Prism Callia - both pro level dac/amp, the latter being the "hifi" version with a more powerful amp
RME ADI-2 Pro - pro level dac/amp
iFi iCAN Pro - well d'uh
Stereoknight transformer based balanced preamp


Reviewer Bias:
- purist
- leans to preferring dry/clinical sounds
- snarky


Build Quality
- chassis overall very nice build quality; no complaints here
- casing is solid and feels good
- large rubbery pad on the bottom isolates it from the desk
- good feel to the volume knob
- very slight play to all knobs/switches, but nothing unreasonable
- gets warm but not hot; avoid stacking though, especially if it's a component underneath that needs to breathe since the rubber pad will insulate
- remote: cheap plastic thing, it works most of the time but doesn't seem to detect sometimes depending on angle
- switches are good, stick out just enough to be functional but not feel too fiddly or obtrusive


First listening impressions
- first: hey this is nice
- later: new toy syndrome has worn off, still good but not as enthused
- kinda brutish, not an ogre, but more Fezzik than Inigo Montoya
- I have a really hard time matching volume, because the iCAN "feels" louder all the time
- overall feels slightly on the V-shaped side (both warmer yet brighter)


On the inputs/outputs:
- the actual switching mechanism itself is quite seamless
- use the balanced XLR inputs; they sound so much better than the single ended
- I'm certain it's not my source, because mine does both and I've evaluated on other gear and found the differences to be marginal*
- single ended seems muted and loses energy (especially treble) and impact/punch compared to balanced inputs
* however, I cannot fully discount that this is a function of how my source is interacting with the iFi inputs
- but noise floor is higher with balanced input while using single ended output... not sure why this is; could be a cabling or power thing but it's unusual and I can't fully track it down
- switching inputs (both with nothing connected or the same source connected to both xlr and rca), there is a higher inherent noise from the balanced inputs which is opposite from expected
- however this noise is not affected by gain
- but it is affected by the pot... so the origin of the noise is coming from in between? It's not a huge problem, so I'm not chasing it down anymore after this
- balanced output is always quiet, regardless of input


Noise floor:
- not detectable with HE-6 (no surprise there)
- very slight noise floor with HD650 on balanced low gain with volume turned up all the way (can't tell with music)
- more noticeable with HEM8, but again it's low enough that your music would be deafening by the time you reached audible levels of noise



Impressions with HE-6
Note that my primary amp with the Hifiman HE-6 is the Bryston B60 which is a speaker amp. Most of my comparisons will be against that unless otherwise noted. Yes the HE-6 is a power hungry beast, so that makes it a good stress test so to speak.


General musings:
- in single ended mode, Callia and iCAN are somewhat close, with iCAN carrying more grunt but Callia feels more refined
- in balanced the iCAN pulls closer to the Callia in refinement
- Callia headamp is cleaner (single ended) while iCAN seems stronger and punchier (same impression from both HEM8 and HE-6)


Initial thoughts on Balanced vs single ended (HE-6) with the various options:
- no issues with power in either single ended or balance, it gets plenty loud
- initial feelings on all the various options and knobs: I am not a fan
- the character of the various settings actually changes depending on single ended or balanced
- typically I found myself preferring balanced solid state
- the two tube modes seemed stronger in single ended mode; going to balanced seemed to take out some of that tubeyness or changed the tone to something odd
- on Xbass and 3D most of the time the first setting is ok-ish, but anything higher I did not like



Mode: Solid State (single ended)
- does not hit as hard as the Bryston B60 (but more than Prism Callia)
- slightly more sibilant yet softer at the same time; the initial "sss" is stronger but the trail is softer or drawn out
- midbass has a slightly hollow impact (sort of like emphasized at both edges); I can see how this might make people feel it is more detailed and impactful
- so maybe this is simply how it handles a transient; harder front edge, perhaps more overshoot then followed by ringing?
- initial feeling is more air and more zing, but this fades after some time
- coming back to B60 immediately feels fuller and more balanced, even though it's hard to quantify and doesn't have the same "kick" as the iCAN
- overall prefer solid state over tubes after listening back and forth


Mode: Solid State (balanced)
- more power, seems to have more control
- feels a bit more full bodied, but it's a very slight difference here
- midrange presence seems slightly smoother, but marginally so
- upper range unaffected
- still doesn't feel as full as the B60, but brings a bit more kick to the game
- if I had to pick one mode of the six possibilities, it would be this one


Mode: Tube (single ended)
- definitely not neutral
- you can easily tell there's a bass hump/harmonics
- more thump (different from kick), but softer on edges
- pretty much what you expect of a stereotypical tube sound
- you'd think this would be nice on music that was a little bass light... but adding those harmonics into stuff that doesn't have it in the first place doesn't work and you get a harmonic warmth but not any actual body; it actually makes those mids feel... not quite honky, but too thick


Mode: Tube (balanced)
- less hump, less thump
- seems like less of a deviation from normal compared to single ended
- still warmer compared to solid state, but in a different way than the single ended mode
- let me rephrase... feels like warmer with a tilt?
- perhaps slightly cleaner sounding than single ended, but tone is slightly offput
- I find myself marginally preferring single ended over balanced in tube mode


mode: tube+ (balanced)
- so I thought: ok if you're gonna go tube, might as well go all the way???
- seems like richer deeper sound? nope I lied, that's not what I get
- not any thumpier or softer
- but definitely an extra harmonic or something that pulls on the ear in an odd way; I'm guessing it's odd order harmonics here
- upper end feels less refined
- it's not a treble glare, but maybe a high order distortion product
- I actually feel like this one is more fatiguing than regular Tube mode
- not sharp, but seems kinda hissy/sibilant
- feels like... a delay in the upper registers?  (rather than harmonics?)


mode: tube+ (single ended)
- ok this one seems richer compared to balanced
- adds more warmth
- too much of a "good thing"
- midbass steps forward
- does not tame bright recordings; just smooshes it out
- feels like a reverb
- even as an outside listener while someone else is wearing the headphones, I could tell this sounded different



Crossfeed / 3D Holographic:
- bleh? maybe I'll try a different song... nope, still bleh. Maybe a different setting, wow nope What is going on. Let's try a mono recording... nope, now it's just further away.
- loses impact and sharpness
- I do consistently feel that there's less "centre", but it comes at the expense of everything else.
- Let's not pretend that we're emulating speakers here. I prefer the stock crossfeed plugin on Jriver, or better yet just get the free ToneBoosters Isone Pro vst plugin (but this requires all the software shenanigans)
30: dips the middle
60: dips the middle more
90: boosts the edges
- really not much more to say here; overall this mode did nothing for me
- but note for later, this feature redeems itself a bit on the preamp outputs


XBass:
- oh the lowest setting is kinda nice... but the others are just too much; in fact distractingly so
- even with metal recordings which I find are typically mastered bass light, the boost just didn't seem right
- you can't use this to correct for bass deficient headphones, because then you're pushing past what the headphones are really capable of and it turns into a muddled and distorted mess
- on bass-light recordings... eh I guess sorta it works, but you can't really amplify something that isn't in the recording
- so really this is only ok with bass capable headphones but bass-light recordings, and only on the first setting
- this feels like a bit more than just a typical EQ bass shelf, like maybe there's a tiny bit of harmonics added in too? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some crossfeed effect happening too, but don't know that for certain and am purely guessing here
- I suppose if you're in the "MOAR BASS" category of listeners then you'll be happy with this; I tried this using some bass heavy Fostex TH-X00 Purplehearts which are already bass heavy and this was simply too much



Gain (level match as much as possible by ear and multimeter)
- I'm surprised that it seemed like there were differences here
- low: kinda weaker? vocals seem slightly strained, but smoothest mid and treble, least impact
- med: "stringier" (not necessarily bad per se) upper end, impact seems cleaner
- high: hissier and slightly more sibilant, impact same as medium or ever slightly stronger, feels a bit like midbass boost again
- overall I stuck with Medium gain as my favourite and most of my listening was done here



Impressions with Sennheiser HD650 
- all the fiddly knob stuff is less disagreeable on HD650 than the HE-6, like it's not as sensitive/resolving
- initial impressions seemed positive, but this dissolved after fifteen minutes
- soft touch/edges
- I thought it would be warmer but that's not the case
- still sounds brighter compared to my Bryston, it's not a "tss" sound but the trailing edges have a slight upturn to them
- resolution is ok, but not the best I've heard with the HD650
- Lorde - Royals: good kicks, but metallic, snaps don't have the body that they should
- all above impressions in solid state mode (balanced)
- Tube mode (balanced): ahh What?? distorted wonk wonk wonk
- Tube+ mode (balanced): huh better, like returning more to solid state, less sibilant, but slightly more fatiguing than regular tube mode
- SS mode (SE): sounds about the same as balanced, maybe a touch more metallic
- Tube mode (SE): warmer, hazier, this is the softest sound of all the modes and configs
- Tube+ mode (SE): too much harmonic, almost feels like an echo? even fuzzier, loses kick; vastly prefer balanced in this mode
- overall I do no not recommend the HD650 with this amp; it was not an ideal pairing


Other headphones:

*Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart (single ended only)*
- this is a bassy headphone going into what I feel is a somewhat bassy amp...
- as expected combo produces too much bass overall for my tastes, but could be fun for others
- Xbass: too much; it overwhelms
- crossfeed: meh... too mushed with all the bass, it just makes things feel hollow in the middle and flabby everywhere else
- tube mode: is ok, definition goes down, but rumble and thump increase (no surprise there); if I wanted to go for a stereotypically tubey sound with lots of warmth, this is it
- tube+ mode: also ok; it's just softly thumpier, same definition as regular tube mode but has a softer tonality, not warmer but low end feels stretched out, upper end
- this would be a basslover combo


*Fostex T50rp (single ended)*
- just not a good match
- top end feels withdrawn regardless of setting
- midrange is there, but feels detached
- bass hits quite hard, this was about the only part I lked
- tons of power, but it simply didn't mesh well
- I gave up on this


*Sennheiser HD598*
- very similar tone as the HD650
- similar changes with the various settings, but overall effects are less so and this seems to work in its favour
- I would pick the 598 over the 650 with this amp
- solid state: single ended is good, balanced feels somewhat tubbier
- tube balanced: not as wonky as the HD650; I can tolerate this one
- tube SE: warmer, softer, lazy-ish
- tube+ balanced: like a slightly edgier solid state
- tube+ SE: mush mush mush, stick with balanced
- crossfeed is actually no too bad, the middle doesn't dip as much, overall feel is more like a sideways stretch
- Xbass: it's weird that the 598 feels more comfortable boosting bass than it's big brother 650; still not my cup of tea, but it's workable here


*NuForce HEM8 (from the 3.5mm jack)*
- the 3.5mm jack is lower in volume compared to the 6.5mm
- congested? what the heck is going on? I'm having trouble trying to do a volume match because something doesn't sound right
- no seriously, what's wrong with this thing... is it broken?
- loses cohesion
- snaps and plucks are in the wrong place in time???
- is this just some sort of L-pad going on to bring the level down? feels like something more than that
- in any event, the sound is a mess and I'm abandoning this
- reading the manual... oh this is the iEMatch thing? I have no idea what that's supposed to be, but it's clearly not working for me

*3.5mm jack with Fostex T50rp*
- not as messed up as the HEM8, but still feels slightly muted


*NuForce HEM8 from regular TRS*
- ok, so right away this is miles better than the 3.5mm output
- seems a bit bassier
- does not feel as neutral as my NuPrime uDSD
- midrange is flatter, treble has good extension if very very slightly upturned
- slightly cloudy in resolution...
- REVISED: balanced inputs cleans this up (don't know why, but the above when I was using single ended inputs the sound sucked)
- overall tone still slightly fuzzy, but not cloudy like before
- overall tone balanced is restored
- Callia headamp is less stuffy, like a veil has been lifted
- midrange clarity improved, feels much better and breathes
- bass hits harder and cleaner now
- all above noted with solid state mode
- tube mode: there's a tradeoff here... seems cleaner up top but muddier down low
- tube+ mode: wow big pop when switching mode here so be careful; did not get any cleaner like tube mode but did not get muddier either... but sounds withdrawn
- actually just be careful with sensitive iems with the knobs; they all seem to produce pops when changing modes
- Xbass: even 1st notch seems too much, 3rd notch gets distorted
- 3D: 1st notch collapses the middle stage and becomes withdrawn, 2nd notch not much different, 3rd notch adds elements to the side (but lower, unlike speakers which was placed higher) but still sounds artificial; overall staging feels better with this turned off
- Callia headamp is cleaner (single ended) while iCAN seems stronger and punchier



Impressions on Speakers

Speaker "3D Holographic" settings from the preamp outputs:
- does not have the middle dip like with headphones; general balance is better
- staging is better preserved than with headphones

+ mode: it's ok, seems to add more air? very tiny smear but yeah I guess it feels like a different room or speaker setting; placement of side instruments moves further out and slightly up; with a mono vocal and my speakers slightly offset, I can hear this distortion effect like a comb filter? (yes this happens with offset, but I've never heard it this apparent before and it disappears with the crossfeed turned off)
30+: feels like a reverb now, angle doesn't really change but speakers have moved further away
60+: really pulls it out to the side, it's gone past reverb and is almost like an echo; instrument location has moved further behind and up, a bit like I have some satellite speakers in a surround mode behind me; the middle is a bit of a weird null zone

- overall 3D effect is less noticeable in Tube and Tube+ mode

- with desktop speakers the effect is very noticeable; likely most of the processing occurs in the upper registers of the frequency range, so the entire speaker and staging flies out to the side
- the various bookshelf speakers I tried exhibited mostly similar behaviours (main ones I had on hand: Celsus Sound SP-One, Centrance Masterclass 2504, John Blue JB3)
- the one that sounded best was my John Blue JB3 which feels like a horn and has a very narrow sweet spot; the + mode expanded this and gave it more space (almost too much air, though the speaker veers that way to begin with)

Larger speakers used: Genelec 1030, Yorkville YSM8, Yorkville U15 (full sized PA cabinets), a couple Paradigm bookshelves
- with larger full range speakers that have a deeper reach, the 3D spatialization is not quite so drastic since the lower energy range doesn't move, thus helps keep things in place
- but the effect here is that I felt like I moved closer to the speakers (increasing effective angle) rather than have the speakers widen out
- it's still a bit hazy and/or feels buzzy out at the furthest edges and raised up higher (again like I have some small satellites above and behind me, though their location is much higher here than compared to the desktop movement); the middle isn't a null zone like with bookshelf speakers, but does feel squishy
- the better the bass reach of the speaker, the less egregious the effect of the spatialization
- sub integration is kinda odd though; I feel like I'm getting phase discrepancies and walking around the room feels weird, so it's probably better to stick with a regular 2.0-ch setup rather than 2.1

- but overall I find it easier to adjust my ears to the speakers with the 3D effects; with headphones it just doesn't work for me



XBass speakers:
- if you're trying this on desktop speakers, you're gonna push them past what they're capable of and get a horrible mess because you're just distorting the speakers
- this did not sound good with any of my small bookshelf speakers
- on speakers with very good bass extension, you'll get rumble but not impact, it does feel deeper but also like you're in a bass bubble
- my Genelecs gained body, but still the strain was showing
- with my full range Yorkville PA speakers, this was generously room filling
- like on headphones, I find the first notch ok, 2nd is passable, but third is way way too much
- also similar to my headphone assessment, this setting really only works when you have bass-capable speakers and bass-light recordings.



How about as preamp?
- I wish there were a way to mute the preamp outputs
- all the fiddly knobs pass through in their own way
- not as transparent as the Stereoknight (but this is one of the best preamps I've ever heard); feels slightly mushier in comparison
- SS (balanced out) - soft yet a bit hard somehow; feels like a slight V emphasis
- tube (balanced out) - softens the sound, sharp plucks and twangs are smoothed out
- tube+ (balanced out) - actually less soft than regular tube mode; there's roundness to the sound but not warmth
- SS (SE) - same as balanced; maybe just a tiny bit more definition?
- tube (SE) - ever so slightly different flavour from balanced but hard to describe
- tube+ (SE) - more warmth than balanced



Closing thoughts:
- no, I didn't hate it, despite my snarkiness
- I did not read other reviews before taking my notes, so my observations are fairly untainted
- solid state mode strikes me as a very competent amp
- preference for balanced vs single ended depends on the mode used
- there is an impressive amount of power on tap; it is rare that I find an amp that can handle the HE-6 and not struggle
- all the variable functions strike me as trying to do too much in such a small space; I understand the appeal and it's a tweakers' delight, but for me those added features were detractors
- just because I didn't like the Xbass or 3D spatialiazations doesn't mean others wouldn't enjoy them; the only feature that baffled me was the iEMatch


----------



## bidn

technobear said:


> https://audiobacon.net/2017/04/21/i...w-a-high-performance-fully-balanced-flagship/



Thank you for mentioning these excellent review and site! Is this your own work or someone's else site?,


----------



## Aleatorius

Fink24 said:


> I have a question to the other iCan Pro owners: Does your input selector also have a bit of a wiggle?
> I can move mine about 0,5 to 1mm left and right. (The function is not hinderd in any way, but considering the nearly 2000€ price tag, it is a little bit of a bummer)



Yep, I think it's a bit more on mine but I haven't measured it.


----------



## FLguy (May 13, 2017)

Thanks to those who have contributed detailed impressions and comparisons against their reference equipment. That's been very interesting, and helpful.

Following up on these, what amp(s) would the reviewers and/or community recommend for a short list for audition that offer or may offer better sound, for less than or equal to 2x the price as an all around desktop headphone amp for dynamic headphones?

I know that I at least I have and probably will continue to have more than one headphone, and so I would prefer, as I think many do, to find an amp that serves multiple headphones well and to avoid dedicating an amp per headphone (although since I currently do this for electrostatics headphones, I suppose it's not entirely out of the question).

Let's set aside for the moment the extra features of the iCan Pro, out of production unobatinium amps, dedicated speaker amps, or amps that are so bright or so rolled off as to only sound good with certain very bright or very warm headphones - you know who you are . Support for both single ended and balanced output is a big plus, but not absolutely required. Ability to master the HE-6 and Abyss 1266 is nice to have (for potential future entertainment), but not essential. Let's set the bar at enough power to master at least LCD-X through LCD-4, and HD800/HD800S.

From my relatively limited exposure:
* The McIntosh MHA100 is probably better - at over $4K US or roughly 2 1/4x the price. (And then there is the design  I know, its a McIntosh thing...)
* Bryston BHA-1?? (although the SQ in SE mode reportedly suffers significantly, which is probably a deal breaker - for me at least)
* Micro ZOTL 2.0?? (SE only, OK for me)
* Schiit jotunheim?? (included in a recent review, not really better sound although, probably better value), or Ragnarok??
...?

Has or can anyone compare the SQ of these headphone amps - or others currently in production in the under $4K range, directly to the iCan Pro? (I have searched, not yet finding a lot of direct comparisons to what I consider currently available, direct competitors).

If this has been covered elsewhere and I've missed it, pointers would be welcome. Thanks!


----------



## Topspin70

FLguy said:


> Thanks to those who have contributed detailed impressions and comparisons against their reference equipment. That's been very interesting, and helpful.
> 
> Following up on these, what amp(s) would the reviewers and/or community recommend for a short list for audition that offer or may offer better sound, for less than or equal to 2x the price as an all around desktop headphone amp for dynamic headphones?
> 
> ...



Did you forget to include the Pass Labs HPA-1? It's "only" $3500  , within your price criteria. Nice to know how that compares with the iCAN Pro too.


----------



## FLguy (May 14, 2017)

Sure, why not?  Supposedly that's another strong performer. Let's throw the Violectric range - perhaps the V281? and SPL Phonitor in the ring while we're at it. All contenders are welcome .

Point is, I think it would be interesting as well as helpful to those who might consider this amp to understand its SQ performance in the context of the available potential alternatives.  It would be really interesting if we could hear from those with experience about how the SQ of the iCan Pro compares to the available alternative headphone amps.

You're right of course that not everyone will want to consider the next tier of equipment also (which I somewhat arbitrarily defined as the $2K - $4K USD range).

To clarify, the question is meant to include amps in the same (price) tier of equipment (under $2K), as well as the next tier up (up to ~$4K??), which some (including me)  might also consider as alternatives.


----------



## FLguy (May 14, 2017)

So far one of the comparisons which is interesting is from the Inner Fidelity review (thanks for that, btw):

"In the company of heavy hitters like the Violectric V281 ($2,879 with relay-based volume control), Simaudio Moon 430HAD ($4,300 with optional DAC add-on), Auralic Taurus MKII ($1,899), and Pass Labs HPA-1 ($3,500), I'd place the Pro iCan about mid-pack when it comes to raw performance, without any consideration for additional features."​
That's intriguing... (although a few more specifics would always be welcome ).


----------



## Topspin70

Intriguing for sure. But mid pack doesn't say a lot though. So like you I too hope to see specific comparisons, esp with the higher tier amps.


----------



## pooslice

Topspin70 said:


> Intriguing for sure. But mid pack doesn't say a lot though. So like you I too hope to see specific comparisons, esp with the higher tier amps.




The next paragraph of the review gives more information on the comparison: "While I do think the Pass and Violectric are somewhat better amplifiers, the delta is not all that large. I slightly prefer the iFi over the Auralic Taurus and even the Simaudio 430HA much of the time, just for straight forward listening. That's not bad company to be in. When you consider the price and the plethora of extra features offered on the iCan, it starts looking like the value buy of the bunch—assuming that term applies in the context of expensive amplifiers.
Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...eadphone-amplifier-page-2#q7RftBLZe1TcBYbm.99"


----------



## Topspin70

pooslice said:


> The next paragraph of the review gives more information on the comparison: "While I do think the Pass and Violectric are somewhat better amplifiers, the delta is not all that large. I slightly prefer the iFi over the Auralic Taurus and even the Simaudio 430HA much of the time, just for straight forward listening. That's not bad company to be in. When you consider the price and the plethora of extra features offered on the iCan, it starts looking like the value buy of the bunch—assuming that term applies in the context of expensive amplifiers.
> Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...eadphone-amplifier-page-2#q7RftBLZe1TcBYbm.99"



Thanks. This gives us a much better picture. I guess when assessing this amp it's impossible not to factor in the value of having so much versatility built into one package. The Pass Lab, for instance, is to me irresistible but it just doesn't put as many options at my fickle fingertips.


----------



## FLguy (May 15, 2017)

pooslice said:


> The next paragraph of the review gives more information on the comparison: "While I do think the Pass and Violectric are somewhat better amplifiers, the delta is not all that large. I slightly prefer the iFi over the Auralic Taurus and even the Simaudio 430HA much of the time, just for straight forward listening. That's not bad company to be in. When you consider the price and the plethora of extra features offered on the iCan, it starts looking like the value buy of the bunch—assuming that term applies in the context of expensive amplifiers.
> Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...eadphone-amplifier-page-2#q7RftBLZe1TcBYbm.99"


Yeah, 'somewhere between the the Taurus much of the time' and the SQ of the Violectric covers _quite _a bit of ground to me, and left me wanting more, including:

1) Do others who have had the ability to heard the iCan Pro and other competitors in these price range(s) concur?

2) Any particulars?
- Is the treble extension (which some have alluded to) comparable to (or better than?) competing amp(s)  (that is, in comparable price range(s), and available)?
- How does the Soundstage - esp depth, compare within these price range(s)?
- How does single ended vs balanced performance compare?
- ...?

For those who have heard the Ican Pro and one or more of the current competing amps in the under $2K range, or the next tier up (up to ~$4K), a bit more info and esp. comparative impressions and/or rating would be really helpful, and much appreciated.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi i was wondering if using the chord mojo as dac with ifi ican pro is a good choice, i know that mojo has a narrow sound stage i do not know if the narrow sound stage gets translated as well when connected to ifi ican pro or will ifi ican pro solve mojo's narrow sound stage


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Sound Eq said:


> hi i was wondering if using the chord mojo as dac with ifi ican pro is a good choice, i know that mojo has a narrow sound stage i do not know if the narrow sound stage gets translated as well when connected to ifi ican pro or will ifi ican pro solve mojo's narrow sound stage



It's one of the reasons I bought mine:

"The 3D Holographic for Headphones is not based on a standard cross-feed system, as found in some High-End headphone amplifiers. Many so called ‘3D systems’ are usually DSP based that artificially effect the sound and add unwanted reverb in order to simulate a ‘spacious‘ type of sound.

It’s true that traditional cross-feed tends to produce an ‘out of head’ sound, but with much diminished spatial components and a narrower soundstage, sometimes almost approaching mono. Most DSP based 3D designs produce an unnatural, echo-like sound, which may initially be impressive, but soon becomes tiring.

By contrast, 3D Holographic for Headphones, provides not only ‘out of head’ placement of the sound sources, but renders the whole sound field in a manner that strongly parallels listening to loudspeakers in a normal room, all achieved without the added reverb. This is the first system in commercial production to achieve this. 30°, 60° & 90° Loudspeaker Angles..."


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> hi i was wondering if using the chord mojo as dac with ifi ican pro is a good choice, i know that mojo has a narrow sound stage i do not know if the narrow sound stage gets translated as well when connected to ifi ican pro or will ifi ican pro solve mojo's narrow sound stage



This is the setup I'm using now with my ifi iCan Pro until the ifi Pro iDSD is released. Since the Mojo is being used only as a dac the narrow soundstage can be expanded by ifi's 3D Holographic for Headphones system. So far I'm enjoying the pairing.


----------



## Sound Eq

Fastnbulbous said:


> It's one of the reasons I bought mine:
> 
> "The 3D Holographic for Headphones is not based on a standard cross-feed system, as found in some High-End headphone amplifiers. Many so called ‘3D systems’ are usually DSP based that artificially effect the sound and add unwanted reverb in order to simulate a ‘spacious‘ type of sound.
> 
> ...



now i do not like to use the 3d effect to add sound stage, what i meant its known mojo sound stage is narrow, so i do not know if the dac is the main thing that dictates sound stage or its the amp


----------



## Sound Eq

Slim1970 said:


> This is the setup I'm using now with my ifi iCan Pro until the ifi Pro iDSD is released. Since the Mojo is being used only as a dac the narrow soundstage can be expanded by ifi's 3D Holographic for Headphones system. So far I'm enjoying the pairing.



will ifi dsd pro be as powerful as ifi ican pro to be used a stand alone device


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> will ifi dsd pro be as powerful as ifi ican pro to be used a stand alone device



From what I've read about iDSD Pro it will have a dedicated headphone output. So it can be used as a stand alone device. It just won't have the output power of the iCan Pro.


----------



## Sound Eq

Slim1970 said:


> From what I've read about iDSD Pro it will have a dedicated headphone output. So it can be used as a stand alone device. It just won't have the output power of the iCan Pro.



hmm i wonder now which is better for me, will have any of the features of ican like bass boost and 3d effect


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> hmm i wonder now which is better for me, will have any of the features of ican like bass boost and 3d effect



It won't have any of those features but you will have the ability to use the iDSD Pro as a SS or tube dac. Also, it will have only an unbalanced 1/4" (6.3 mm) headphone jack.


----------



## Sound Eq

so i guess then mojo and ifi ican pro would be a better option as i like bass boost.

this wil be my first desktop amp and i do not know what to expect from such amp with my lcd2 and oppo pm1 all i owned before is portable amps like alo mk3B, wish i could audition but we do not have shops that have it for audition where i live


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> so i guess then mojo and ifi ican pro would be a better option as i like bass boost.
> 
> this wil be my first desktop amp and i do not know what to expect from such amp with my lcd2 and oppo pm1 all i owned before is portable amps like alo mk3B, wish i could audition but we do not have shops that have it for audition where i live



If this is your first desktop system it's a good start. I had the Oppo HA-1 before I upgraded to the ifi iCan Pro. I love the flexibilityof the iCan Pro. The way ifi has implemented there sound enhancements in the iCan Pro, all in the analog domain, can really benefit some headphones.

I have the LCD-3F's and the Mojo can drive them but not nearly as well as the iCan Pro. I think the Mojo work out nicely with your LCD-2's as they are not as power hungry as the LCD-3's from what I've read about them. 

Also, I was wrong about the iDSD Pro having only one headphone jack. It will have 3. The other two will be 3.5 inch balanced and unbalanced jacks if that makes a difference for you. Here's some more info on the iDSD Pro from ifi in the iDSD Pro thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread.702376/page-102#post-13067755


----------



## Sound Eq

anyone selling their ifi ican pro for a good price send me a message


----------



## gr8soundz

Slim1970 said:


> It won't have any of those features but you will have the ability to use the iDSD Pro as a SS or tube dac. Also, it will have only an unbalanced 1/4" (6.3 mm) headphone jack.



Last I checked the iDSD Pro also had a balanced 3.5mm TRRS headphone out similar to the one on the iCan Pro.


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask how does cavali liquid carbon compare to ifi ican pro


----------



## thyname

Hi,

Anybody uses the iFi iCan Pro with relatively low impedance headphones such as Focal Utopia I own?

Not sure if iFi is overkill for these. Yes, extra power does not hurt, but sometimes it may introduce hum and other artifacts when using sensitive headphones with low impedance.

Thoughts?


----------



## Tom Blake

It drives my very sensitive TH900 from the 1/4" output with no hum at all. There is not much range on the volume control in Low gain though. I usually do not have it up past 10 o'clock. Probably would be worse from one of the balanced outs as the amp gets quite a bit louder on the balanced outs.


----------



## ptolemy2k6

thyname said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anybody uses the iFi iCan Pro with relatively low impedance headphones such as Focal Utopia I own?
> 
> ...



no hum for me either.


----------



## bidn (May 31, 2017)

thyname said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anybody uses the iFi iCan Pro with relatively low impedance headphones such as Focal Utopia I own?
> 
> ...



I having been using my ifi ican pro for driving my Utopia since about October 2016, perfect combination   :  zero hum, absolutely transparent and clean


----------



## twiceboss

Anyone here can compare the sound of itube2>iCan compare to iCan Pro?


----------



## Tom Blake

Heard from my dealer that the iESL is shipping as early as next week at a price of $1399 USD. I have one on pre-order. Hope to have sometime the week of June 12. Will be using with Stax SR-L500 as an upgrade to the SRM-252S.


----------



## bidn

Tom Blake said:


> Heard from my dealer that the iESL is shipping as early as next week at a price of $1399 USD. I have one on pre-order. Hope to have sometime the week of June 12. Will be using with Stax SR-L500 as an upgrade to the SRM-252S.



Thank you, very good news.
So far I wasn't interested in the Stax SR 009 because I didn't like the required amps (either big or lesser SQ).
The iESL may change this. I will be interested in impressions on how it comparatively fares for driving the SR-009.
Which HP will you be driving with the iESL?


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Tom Blake said:


> Heard from my dealer that the iESL is shipping as early as next week at a price of $1399 USD. I have one on pre-order. Hope to have sometime the week of June 12. Will be using with Stax SR-L500 as an upgrade to the SRM-252S.



What dealer? So strange that after such a long wait it just unceremoniously appears in the market without any sort of announcement. *Shrug*


----------



## Tom Blake

bidn said:


> Thank you, very good news.
> So far I wasn't interested in the Stax SR 009 because I didn't like the required amps (either big or lesser SQ).
> The iESL may change this. I will be interested in impressions on how it comparatively fares for driving the SR-009.
> Which HP will you be driving with the iESL?


Stax SR-L500. Will probably look at the Mr Speakers estat when released.


----------



## thyname

Got mine today. 

Lots of settings and features. Fully loaded. Still have to try most of them. Sound wise, very positive first impressions, although will have to wait until weekend for critical listening.

I know that manual says the stock iPower 15v supply is best, but I thought I'd ask anyway: will this benefit from a linear power supply, or after market power cable?

Any general consensus as to whether there is any benefit of using various settings (bass boost modes, 3D, etc.)?


----------



## gto88

On board yesterday.
Listening to Z1R balanced, it is really beautifully sounding, bass and sub-bass are enhanced.
I have reviewed iFi Micro iDSD BL, and love it, looking to buy it and ended up bought this iCan Pro.
I won't be upgrading amp for long long time from now.


----------



## Slim1970

gto88 said:


> On board yesterday.
> Listening to Z1R balanced, it is really beautifully sounding, bass and sub-bass are enhanced.
> I have reviewed iFi Micro iDSD BL, and love it, looking to buy it and ended up bought this iCan Pro.
> I won't be upgrading amp for long long time from now.



I'm with you on not needing another amp for long time. My iCAN Pro drives everything in my headphone collection fantastically with power to spare. Hopefully soon the pro idsd will be released to complete the setup.


----------



## thyname

thyname said:


> Got mine today.
> 
> Lots of settings and features. Fully loaded. Still have to try most of them. Sound wise, very positive first impressions, although will have to wait until weekend for critical listening.
> 
> ...



Nobody?


----------



## Slim1970

thyname said:


> Nobody?



From the manual here's what ifi says about the power supply supplied with the iCan Pro:

" 19. DC Power Supply Input
        15V/4A DC Power input.

Tip: Any 9v to 18v DC power source with a minimum 60VA rating can be used with the Pro iCAN (including vehicular, RV and boat based 12V DC power). The Pro iCAN uses double-conversion power supplies that make it impervious to power supply noise and related problems. However, we strongly recommend the use of the included iPOWER Plus 15V. It o ers the latest in power supply technology and is better and cleaner than battery and aftermarket linear power supplies."

So it seems that the power supply that came with the iCan Pro is the best option.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

I use the 3D in a way similar to crossfeed function on my Meier and Grace, to help delay headphone fatigue. So far so good! I also love the bass boost. Most (85%) of the time I don't use it, but on certain songs where an exaggerated low end is fun, it does the trick.


----------



## thyname

Still too early (only had it for a couple of days, maybe a total of 4-5 hours of listening) but here are my findings on various modes:

1 - I don't like the 3D function. I think I prefer it turned off. It does expand the voice (as in coming from a wider space), but to the expense of detail and "punch". It also causes (in my opinion) the voice to be not so intimate.

2 - The bass Boost is nice, but only at the minimal setting

3 - Among the three modes (solid state, Tubes, and Tubes+) my preference is for Solid State. Something is lost on Tube and Tube +, although a bit better on the "+". Still have to experiment with it though.


----------



## gto88

Still exploring the effect of Pro iCan, but it seems 3D feature  is best used for closed can, so to expand the sound stage.
I currently listening to HP with all feature off and 0 gain setting, starting from there to check it one by one, so many
features to mix with.


----------



## elan120

thyname said:


> Got mine today.
> 
> I know that manual says the stock iPower 15v supply is best, but I thought I'd ask anyway: will this benefit from a linear power supply, or after market power cable?


Hi @thyname , Will you be trying a LPS in the near future?

I do have a LPS ordered that I was planning to use it to power my router, but might end up do a quick test with iCan Pro just to see if I can detect improvements as I am curious also.

Kevin


----------



## thyname

elan120 said:


> Hi @thyname , Will you be trying a LPS in the near future?
> 
> I do have a LPS ordered that I was planning to use it to power my router, but might end up do a quick test with iCan Pro just to see if I can detect improvements as I am curious also.
> 
> Kevin



I have one LPS-1 already (see my sig), and another one on order with the ISO Regen.

I don't see how I can use the LPS-1 to power the Pro iCan. It needs 15 volts, and maximum output of LPS-1 is 7 volts.

I was thinking other linear power supplies that output 15v, such as sBooster and more.


----------



## elan120

thyname said:


> I have one LPS-1 already (see my sig), and another one on order with the ISO Regen.
> 
> I don't see how I can use the LPS-1 to power the Pro iCan. It needs 15 volts, and maximum output of LPS-1 is 7 volts.
> 
> I was thinking other linear power supplies that output 15v, such as sBooster and more.


Understood...I was really asking whether you would be getting a suitable Linear Power Supply to power Pro iCan.  The one I just ordered will have 12VDC / 5.5A output, which is more than what I need to power my router, but just right for Pro iCan, so I likely will take it for a quick spin when it is delivered.


----------



## thyname

elan120 said:


> Understood...I was really asking whether you would be getting a suitable Linear Power Supply to power Pro iCan.  The one I just ordered will have 12VDC / 5.5A output, which is more than what I need to power my router, but just right for Pro iCan, so I likely will take it for a quick spin when it is delivered.



Got it. Let us know what you find out once you try it.

I cannot try it for now, as none of my linear power supplies can power the Pro iCan.


----------



## elan120

thyname said:


> Got it. Let us know what you find out once you try it.
> 
> I cannot try it for now, as none of my linear power supplies can power the Pro iCan.



Sure...since I just placed the order, I would speculate the delivery will likely be at least 2 to 3 weeks tho.


----------



## Khragon (Jun 8, 2017)

thyname said:


> Still too early (only had it for a couple of days, maybe a total of 4-5 hours of listening) but here are my findings on various modes:
> 
> 1 - I don't like the 3D function. I think I prefer it turned off. It does expand the voice (as in coming from a wider space), but to the expense of detail and "punch". It also causes (in my opinion) the voice to be not so intimate.
> 
> ...



You need to try WE396A to get the max out of the Tubes options.  the stock GE tubes are pretty veiled sounding to me, WE396A is more open, with more clarity and dynamics.


----------



## gto88

Khragon said:


> You need to try WE396A to get the max out of the Tubes options.  the stock GE tubes are pretty veiled sounding to me, WE396A is more open, with more clarity and dynamics.


Is it easy to roll the tube?
I have not researched about tube rolling on Pro iCan yet.


----------



## thyname (Jun 8, 2017)

Khragon said:


> You need to try WE396A to get the max out of the Tubes options.  the stock GE tubes are pretty veiled sounding to me, WE396A is more open, with more clarity and dynamics.



Nice!

There is no way I can open this and roll tubes...


----------



## Khragon

Not very difficult, but got to be careful with the riser board.  I don't think there are that many tube option, and WE396A is said to be one of the best, so maybe 2-3 options, which is good for the wallet.


----------



## beowulf

Anyone can suggest a source in Europe with a good price for this model? (You can PM me)
I'm not finding it much below the MSRP and after buying the Black Label at full price, it would be nice to get this a bit lower.

Very happy with the Black Label, truly flexible little thing. The Pro seems *almost* perfect - I have to admit I would prefer if it had a built-in DAC too, would make it a bit handier when you need a quick all-in-one solution.


----------



## iFi audio

beowulf said:


> Very happy with the Black Label, truly flexible little thing. The Pro seems *almost* perfect - I have to admit I would prefer if it had a built-in DAC too, would make it a bit handier when you need a quick all-in-one solution.



We're happy if you're happy. Our mindset regarding iDAC BL was to have a product which would cover as many bases as possible and we're very pleased with the outcome.

Maybe at some point we'll have an integrated from Pro series. As far as Pro series goes, our aim was to have an amp and a dac separately as these from the Pro range are meant to be used in desktop environment.


----------



## Tom Blake

iESL now up on iFi's website including manual and extensive tech notes. Hope to have mine next week!


----------



## iFi audio

And I'll leave it here...

*The Pro iESL
First among energizers*



The *Pro series iESL *is an unsurpassed energiser for electrostatic headphones (and transformer-coupled stage for flagship dynamic headphones too).

The *Pro iESL* _driven by either_ the iFi Pro iCAN or a powerful amplifier takes electrostatic headphones to an unprecedented level of performance.

Its defining characteristic is a transparency and an ultra-wide dynamic range that is totally natural. The *Pro iESL* works with Stax, Sennheiser Orpheus and many more.

*Classic & Cutting Edge Technology*

The *Pro *i*ESL*’s three key elements combine the very best in classical approaches with the latest in cutting-edge technology AND superb component quality to deliver the ‘perfectly matched’ headphone experience.

• Atypical Pinstripe Permalloy Core transformer
• Bias voltage generator
• Capacitive Battery Power Supply


*Outstanding Component Quality*

One-off, hand-wound, Pinstripe Permalloy Core Transformer
Wima Capacitors
Vishay MELF resistors
Gold-plated silver and sealed-silver alloy contact relays





*Specifications*
Maximum Output voltage: 640V RMS (16Ω/20V in)
320V RMS (64Ω/20V in)
Frequency Response: 5Hz – 50kHz (-3dB)
Input Voltage (Pro iESL): 5V – 9V/1A max
Input Voltage (iPower): AC 85 – 265V, 50/60Hz
Power Consumption: < 1W
Dimensions: 213(l) x 206(w) x 63.3(h) mm
Weight: 2.5kg (5.5 lbs)

The retail price of the *Pro iESL* is *US$1,399* (ex-tax) or *€1,575/£1,395* (incl VAT).

_Stay tuned, tech stuff coming up shortly!_


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## Tom Blake (Jun 9, 2017)

@iFi audio  - great to see the details on the iESL at last. It is a very ambitious design, much more so than expected. I look forward to hearing it soon! I do have one question - when will the Pro series iRack be available? With 2 components in the line now available it will be useful. Please don't wait until the iDSD Pro is available to release. Until iRack is available is it okay to stack Pro iCAN and iESL? I assume Pro iCAN should be on top with how warm it runs?

Thanks!


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## thyname

iFi audio said:


> We're happy if you're happy. Our mindset regarding iDAC BL was to have a product which would cover as many bases as possible and we're very pleased with the outcome.
> 
> Maybe at some point we'll have an integrated from Pro series. As far as Pro series goes, our aim was to have an amp and a dac separately as these from the Pro range are meant to be used in desktop environment.



Hi, are you able to comment on my question below? Thanks!



thyname said:


> Got mine today.
> 
> Lots of settings and features. Fully loaded. Still have to try most of them. Sound wise, very positive first impressions, although will have to wait until weekend for critical listening.
> 
> ...


----------



## bflat

If iFi can create an adapter for the Shure KSE1500, they will likely sell an iESL to most of the owners.


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## Khragon

Looking forward to impressions... the iESL allows me to start looking into the electrostatic headphones, very cool.


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## angela222

I'm a newbie about the newer audio equipment; regarding ican pro: 2 questions: I'm at a quandary about incorporating this unit in my system. Currently, I have Nad m12 and m22 using oppo 105. How do you connect the pro unit properly  into the preamp or the oppo? Has anyone used ican pro as a preamp? I asked IFi about to connect the ipro as preamp? This was their reply "with regards to the iCan pro - we would advise to have 1 pre-amplifier in the chain and not 2 devices". I do not understand their response. Thanks


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## bflat (Jun 13, 2017)

angela222 said:


> I'm a newbie about the newer audio equipment; regarding ican pro: 2 questions: I'm at a quandary about incorporating this unit in my system. Currently, I have Nad m12 and m22 using oppo 105. How do you connect the pro unit properly  into the preamp or the oppo? Has anyone used ican pro as a preamp? I asked IFi about to connect the ipro as preamp? This was their reply "with regards to the iCan pro - we would advise to have 1 pre-amplifier in the chain and not 2 devices". I do not understand their response. Thanks



iFi is advising that you only have one preamp in your chain to minimize degradation of source. Based on that it looks like your choices are:

iFi iCan as preamp - M12 balanced out to iFi balanced input, iFi iCan balanced out to M22 balanced in, Oppo 105 RCA out to iFi iCan RCA in

M12 as preamp - whatever input/output capabilities are for the M12, but in this case iFi iCan will just be a headphone amp, taking input from M12

Technically you could run more inputs and outputs with the iFi iCan as 2nd preamp, but I would follow iFi advice and not put 2 preamps between source and output (speakers and headphones). For example if you variable output on both preamps, you can easily find ourself clipping at the output.


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## angela222

bflat said:


> iFi is advising that you only have one preamp in your chain to minimize degradation of source. Based on that it looks like your choices are:
> 
> iFi iCan as preamp - M12 balanced out to iFi balanced input, iFi iCan balanced out to M22 balanced in, Oppo 105 RCA out to iFi iCan RCA in
> 
> ...


Wow!! Thanks for the help. More clear. 1 thing I never heard of using the power amp ( Nad m22) as preamp as you described. Are you certain about the model numbers: m12 preamp, m22 power.


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## bflat

angela222 said:


> Wow!! Thanks for the help. More clear. 1 thing I never heard of using the power amp ( Nad m22) as preamp as you described. Are you certain about the model numbers: m12 preamp, m22 power.



Oops, typo. Meant m12 as pre-amp.


----------



## erdawe

Does anyone have issue with their iFi iCan Pro amp turning green as expected say in SS bootup then after maybe 15-20 seconds, then amp flips to the RED iFi Logo of Death? All dials were turned CCW.

So sad this high-dollar amp has these reliability issues less than 1 week of use, and only a few times of powering on. That amounts to an expensive disappointment as a new consumer to iFi.


----------



## frogmeat69

erdawe said:


> Does anyone have issue with their iFi iCan Pro amp turning green as expected say in SS bootup then after maybe 15-20 seconds, then amp flips to the RED iFi Logo of Death? All dials were turned CCW.
> 
> So sad this high-dollar amp has these reliability issues less than 1 week of use, and only a few times of powering on. That amounts to an expensive disappointment as a new consumer to iFi.


No problems here, have had mine for about 7 months.


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## pooslice

Getting my ican later. Can't wait!


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## bflat

Only time I see red is temporarily when switching to tube+ on the fly listening to SS. It only lasts a sec or 2. I will say the "orange" per the manual is more closer to a yellow light for tube mode.


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## gto88

I read earlier. turning red is in protection mode.
You can try to unplug all connections, turn on and see if it is fine.


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## LoryWiv

bflat said:


> Only time I see red is temporarily when switching to tube+ on the fly listening to SS. It only lasts a sec or 2. I will say the "orange" per the manual is more closer to a yellow light for tube mode.


Same for me.


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## erdawe (Jun 17, 2017)

gto88 said:


> I read earlier. turning red is in protection mode.
> You can try to unplug all connections, turn on and see if it is fine.



Thanks for idea on trouble shooting, this actually happens the same with connections or not. I have no idea why it's going into protection mode.
It's still 15 seconds of green promise, then a blinking red disappointment.

I'm going to return this unit, and perhaps revisit if I feel like repurchasing.


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## Tom Blake

Yes, sounds like something is wrong. As others have noted above the only time I have seen it flash red is for just a few seconds at the end of the bootup process for Tube+ mode. I use HE-6 headphones with mine and it drives them with authority and I have never been able to get the protection circuitry to kick in.

I added the IESL to my iCAN Pro yesterday. I want to let it burn in a bit more before listening critically but I already like what I hear with my Stax SR-L500's. I had previously been using the low-end Stax energizer, the SRM-252s. Right out of the box the iESL sounds much smoother and more detailed. The Pro iCAN + iESL is an incredibly compelling desktop amp at $3K that can drive ANY headphone on the planet at high quality levels and also serve as a top notch preamp. I love mine


----------



## Khragon

How is the Pro and iESL at driving dynamics headphones? Any improvements using the esl compared to the pro?


----------



## Tom Blake

Khragon said:


> How is the Pro and iESL at driving dynamics headphones? Any improvements using the esl compared to the pro?


I will try that tomorrow and let you know. The HE-6 should be a good test. I also have a few speaker amps I want to try with the iESL on the HE-6. There's no doubt the iESL performs great with Stax though


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## technobear

Tom Blake said:


> I will try that tomorrow and let you know. The HE-6 should be a good test. I also have a few speaker amps I want to try with the iESL on the HE-6. There's no doubt the iESL performs great with Stax though



The iESL is for electrostatic headphones.

The HE-6 is not an electrostatic headphone. It is a planar magnetic headphone.


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## technobear

erdawe said:


> Does anyone have issue with their iFi iCan Pro amp turning green as expected say in SS bootup then after maybe 15-20 seconds, then amp flips to the RED iFi Logo of Death? All dials were turned CCW.
> 
> So sad this high-dollar amp has these reliability issues less than 1 week of use, and only a few times of powering on. That amounts to an expensive disappointment as a new consumer to iFi.



This is not the right place to be seeking help with this issue. It sounds like a fault. Open a support ticket here: *http://support.ifi-audio.com/*

The folks at iFi are very helpful and will talk you through any diagnostics that may be done. If they cannot get it to work, they will replace it for you. No doubt they will want the faulty one back to see what is occurring (if it is faulty). So far there are next to no issues with these so you have been unlucky.


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## Khragon (Jun 18, 2017)

technobear said:


> The iESL is for electrostatic headphones.
> 
> The HE-6 is not an electrostatic headphone. It is a planar magnetic headphone.



iESL is also a "buffer stage" for non electrostatic headphones.  See iFi iESL page here under the "Elevate flagship dynamic headphones" portion:
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-iesl/


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## bflat

How long is the proprietary cord that looks like an HDMI cable? Will the cord reach if you put the iCan and iESL side by side instead of stacked?


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## technobear

Khragon said:


> iESL is also a "buffer stage" for non electrostatic headphones.  See iFi iESL page here under the "Elevate flagship dynamic headphones" portion:
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-iesl/



Well I'll be!

So the reassuringly expensive Pro iCAN can be improved by the addition of a fancy transformer. Where will it end?


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## Khragon

bflat said:


> How long is the proprietary cord that looks like an HDMI cable? Will the cord reach if you put the iCan and iESL side by side instead of stacked?


I think it's just a standard HDMI cable, the comm protocol are not HDMI, but any HDMI cable will do, shorter is better obviously.  iFi please confirm.



technobear said:


> Well I'll be!
> 
> So the reassuringly expensive Pro iCAN can be improved by the addition of a fancy transformer. Where will it end?


Pretty sure the answer is: It will never end


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## Tom Blake

technobear said:


> The iESL is for electrostatic headphones.
> 
> The HE-6 is not an electrostatic headphone. It is a planar magnetic headphone.


The iESL has a 4-pin XLR out for dynamic and planar headphones in addition to the 2 Stax outputs. It is well suited to the HE-6 as you can connect a speaker amp to it. However, if you have the Pro iCAN as well it is more than capable of driving the HE-6 by itself. My iESL is still burning-in (iFi recommends 100 hours) but I will try the XLR out with my non-estat headphones and see if there is any difference to the XLR out on the Pro iCAN.


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## Tom Blake

bflat said:


> How long is the proprietary cord that looks like an HDMI cable? Will the cord reach if you put the iCan and iESL side by side instead of stacked?


It is quite short - only a few inches. I will note it seems to be of very high quality also! Definitely not long enough to put the components side by side. iFi said it is fine to stack the Pro iCAN and iESL as long as the iCAN is on top. The iESL actually runs quite cool, especially compared to the iCAN. They make a really nice pair when stacked.


----------



## Slim1970

Any word on the release of that nice rack ifi has when demoing the Pro stack? I'll be picking up the iESL soon and would love to pickup that rack as well.


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## Tom Blake

Slim1970 said:


> Any word on the release of that nice rack ifi has when demoing the Pro stack? I'll be picking up the iESL soon and would love to pickup that rack as well.


I would love to know as well! I have asked iFi but have not heard anything back. I hope they don't wait until the iDSD is out to release it!


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## Slim1970

I hope iFi doesn't wait that long to release the Pro iRack or whatever they intend to call it. I want the whole system including the rack. Then my desktop rig will be all set. When the iDSD is released iFi's Pro system is going to be so hard to beat feature wise. The Pro iCan sounds amazing with ALL of my headphones with the Mojo as my dac. I'm sure with the iDSD at the top of the chain the synergy will be unbelievable!


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## Tom Blake

They do stack nicely without the rack though. iESL runs cool so there seems to be no problem stacking them.


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## erdawe

technobear said:


> This is not the right place to be seeking help with this issue. It sounds like a fault. Open a support ticket here: *http://support.ifi-audio.com/*
> 
> The folks at iFi are very helpful and will talk you through any diagnostics that may be done. If they cannot get it to work, they will replace it for you. No doubt they will want the faulty one back to see what is occurring (if it is faulty). So far there are next to no issues with these so you have been unlucky.



I have now opened a ticket with description, and brief video to better help the manufacturer resolve this issue.
I do not plan on belaboring the point further. However, I do think it fair to note impressions I've found with a high-end headphone amplifier in an aptly titled 'Impressions & Discussion' thread.


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## erdawe

Tom Blake said:


> They do stack nicely without the rack though. iESL runs cool so there seems to be no problem stacking them.



Please post how they may function together in tandem, and any potential heating performance over time with a silicone pad over the iESL venting if non-issue..

Does the iESL not function without the iCAN unit attached?

Also, impressions of the iESL balanced XLR for dynamic cans would be nice to hear impression vs the iCAN.


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## Slim1970

Tom Blake said:


> They do stack nicely without the rack though. iESL runs cool so there seems to be no problem stacking them.


 Nice!


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## Tom Blake (Jun 18, 2017)

erdawe said:


> Please post how they may function together in tandem, and any potential heating performance over time with a silicone pad over the iESL venting if non-issue..
> 
> Does the iESL not function without the iCAN unit attached?
> 
> Also, impressions of the iESL balanced XLR for dynamic cans would be nice to hear impression vs the iCAN.


They function beautifully as a tandem! The iESL only needs the included short HDMI cable for connection to the iCAN. You don't even need to use the included iPower adapter. Adding the iESL is just like an extension that allows electrostatic headphones to now be used. I do need to run the iCAN at +9 dB to get decent volume out of my Stax L500's. I currently have the iESL impedance control at 64 ohm. The volume gets louder at the 24 ohm impedance setting but I am not sure yet if that is safe for my Stax. With iESL set to the iCAN input powering down the iCAN also powers down the iESL. Basically they function as 1 combined unit.

I have been running the iESL non-stop since receiving it Friday and it remains cool to the touch with iCAN stacked on top. It does have the interior Orange LED illuminated all the time like when the iCAN is set to tube mode. I don't think stacking is going to be an issue at all with the iESL on the bottom. iFi confirmed to me in PM it is not a problem as long as the iCAN is on top. Still would be nice to have the iRack available though for the Pro sized components.

iESL can function without the iCAN. You would have to use the included iPower adapter and connect either an external speaker amp via the speaker inputs or a very high powered HP amp via 4 pin XLR input. I have not tried it connected to anything other than the iCAN yet. Note that the iFi LED lights Green when connected to the iCAN not Orange as indicated in the manual. Maybe the LED is lit in Orange when a non-iFi amp is used?

I did some brief comparisons today with my HE-6's on the iCAN 4 pin XLR out vs iESL 4 pin XLR out. They sounded pretty much the same to me although the iCAN XLR out is a few dB louder. I will wait until it has had the recommended 100 hours burn-in time before drawing a serious conclusion.

So far I am extremely happy with the pair or iFi Pro amp units! They certainly now make the most feature-rich and flexible desktop amp solution available at any price.


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## Topspin70

Tom Blake said:


> They function beautifully as a tandem! The iESL only needs the included short HDMI cable for connection to the iCAN. You don't even need to use the included iPower adapter. Adding the iESL is just like an extension that allows electrostatic headphones to now be used. I do need to run the iCAN at +9 dB to get decent volume out of my Stax L500's. I currently have the iESL impedance control at 64 ohm. The volume gets louder at the 24 ohm impedance setting but I am not sure yet if that is safe for my Stax. With iESL set to the iCAN input powering down the iCAN also powers down the iESL. Basically they function as 1 combined unit.




I had the same question as @erdawe and you answered it perfectly. I had the wrong impression that the iESL was a iCAN Pro + electrostatic capability. On closer look, it doesn't have settings like gain, tube, 3D or Xbass. So clearly design to pair with the iCP.


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## Khragon

How does stacking them working out with regard to ease of inserting and removing headphones? I found that I need to hold on to the iCan to do this,  I guess one needs a to apply greater pressure in order to keep the bottom iESL inplace for removing ir inserting the headphones.


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## Tom Blake

Topspin70 said:


> I had the same question as @erdawe and you answered it perfectly. I had the wrong impression that the iESL was a iCAN Pro + electrostatic capability. On closer look, it doesn't have settings like gain, tube, 3D or Xbass. So clearly design to pair with the iCP.


Correct - it is designed to work in concert with the Pro iCAN. iESL needs some form of external amp to function either Pro iCAN, an external speaker amp, or an external HP amp that is very powerful with an XLR output (at least 7V output). It works beautifully with the Pro iCAN, as one would expect.


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## Tom Blake

Khragon said:


> How does stacking them working out with regard to ease of inserting and removing headphones? I found that I need to hold on to the iCan to do this,  I guess one needs a to apply greater pressure in order to keep the bottom iESL inplace for removing ir inserting the headphones.


It's not a problem at all. Light pressure on the iCAN keeps everything stable when plugging/unplugging headphones, including Stax. I do think the rack will be better though once available. In the interim stacking the 2 boxes seems to work quite well. The iESL continues to run cool having been on for 72 hours straight and I see no signs of distress. The iCAN continues to operate at its same toasty level on top of the stack.


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## Tom Blake

I just had to take apart my Pro iCAN + iESL stack to do some rewiring. After over 72 hours of straight operation underneath the iCAN the iESL top cover was completely cool to the touch. No issues stacking these two directly with the iCAN on top. I imagine the iDSD will run hot since it also has tubes. The iRack will likely be essential if one wishes to stack all 3 boxes whenever the iDSD becomes available. For now I can probably live without it.


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## bidn

I am considering buying a second iFi iCAN Pro to have more headphones connected to the same kind of device at the same time.
Would it be OK for heat flow to stack two iCAN Pro on top of each other? (I feat not)
If not, what would you recommend ?


----------



## bflat

bidn said:


> I am considering buying a second iFi iCAN Pro to have more headphones connected to the same kind of device at the same time.
> Would it be OK for heat flow to stack two iCAN Pro on top of each other? (I feat not)
> If not, what would you recommend ?



I would say no, because the pad will block the air vents. I've measured 110 def F in the hottest areas of iCan. If you can find some spacers to place on the corners, then it should be ok.


----------



## Starcruncher

bidn said:


> I am considering buying a second iFi iCAN Pro to have more headphones connected to the same kind of device at the same time.
> Would it be OK for heat flow to stack two iCAN Pro on top of each other? (I feat not)
> If not, what would you recommend ?



No doubt iFi would be happy, but this seems wasteful. And besides, wouldn't you need to unplug and plug something in the chain to use the second amp? Doesn't that defeat the convenience purpose?

My wholesome recommendation is to just deal with plugging in headphones. Sorry if that sounds mean, but it is what I recommend.


----------



## bidn

Starcruncher said:


> No doubt iFi would be happy, but this seems wasteful. And besides, wouldn't you need to unplug and plug something in the chain to use the second amp? Doesn't that defeat the convenience purpose?
> 
> My wholesome recommendation is to just deal with plugging in headphones. Sorry if that sounds mean, but it is what I recommend.



Re. a 2nd iCAN
Everyone has different priorities and needs,
I have many headphones, I like to make optimal comparisons by immediately switching driven headphones (so no unplugging / plugging). Besides I don't like the idea of exposing connections to dust.
So I actually already have two chains, the second one with another amp with many connections: Pioneer U-05. I connect to it less demanding hps or those I use less, (even so this is not enough for connecting all my hps)
but this not ideal, I want the hps to be connected to the same kind of amp (and with amping capabilities better than the U-05).
I was thinking of using the iDSP Pro for connecting more hps, but it seems to be endlessly delayed.
So I am seriously considering buying a second iCAN Pro, I will wait and see after the summer if the iDSD isn't still arriving. 

Re. the rack :
I had kept old mecano sets from my youth and given them to my children who almost never played with them (they prefer computer gaming...)
 I think I could retrieve these sets I use them to build a rack.


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## Matez

If someone asked about the iFi Pro rack, I believe that we'll see it very soon. iFi crew had it visible on the exhibitions in Warsaw in November 2016 and in Munich as far as I remember. So it probably is just around the corner, that's my guess.


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## bflat

Here are my impressions of iCan Pro with a Holo Spring Level 3 DAC

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac.810065/page-88#post-13563734

I would add the following specific to the iCan Pro

It gets hot! Even with the power supply being external, it's toaster city. I have this running 24x7 for nearly 400 hrs and no issues.
IEM matching is pretty cool. Allows for full use of volume control.
At least in my setup, both tube and tube+ adds a richness to mids and upper bass. Treble is not affected at all to my ears. Tube+ is a little liquid in the lower to sub bass. The differences are subtle and still remain a neutral SS character imho. Not a full substitute for a full tube amp.
Not sure why but when I listen to my IEMs - JH Layla and Oriolus Forsteni, the treble is a little rolled off. It's not the IEM matching causing this, because I also tested right from the XLR balanced out with an adapter. It could very well be that this is the "true" sound of my IEMs since I only used those with portable devices before. For the Oriolus, it's great because I found the treble too hot and sounds just right on the iCan Pro. My Laylas are strictly for my DAP so no issue for me.
Overall, I find this to be a neutral amp with tremendous dynamics and loads of power. While I have not tested any hard to drive headphones, I have only used lowest gain and volume dial max to about 10 o'clock with my TH900. This is a perfect amp for me as I don't have much desk space and I am still trying out different headphones. Having an electrostatic option with iESL is icing on the cake.


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## iFi audio

bflat said:


> Here are my impressions of iCan Pro with a Holo Spring Level 3 DAC
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac.810065/page-88#post-13563734
> 
> ...



Thanks! This is a very nice mini-review right there! It's great that you've found our amp to suit your every need!


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## gto88 (Jul 7, 2017)

Did a search and found nothing on this thread.
I meant to ask iCAN Pro owners, according to the manual, it says the normal listening
level should be reached at 12'clock, however I found it would be too loud.
I set it to 0 gain, single end, lcd-3. at 10 clock is already loud to me.
How about you, the owners.

Oops, just saw the other owner set 10 o'clock for th900.


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## Khragon

I think the intent is if you have headphones that require you to go past 12 o'clock then it's recommended to increase the gain setting.  Pretty sure it's not the recommended volume position.


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## Tom Blake

Yes, with my LCD-2's I can't go much above 10 o'clock at the 0dB setting. Same applies to my TH900's. However, with my HE-6 I am often at 12 o'clock or higher at the +9 dB setting. With some material I need to go to the +18 dB setting and then I am rarely above 12 o'clock on the volume control. The HE-6 is probably a worst-case usage scenario for the iCAN Pro. It is more than capable of driving them at the +9 or +18 dB gain settings.


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## gto88

Got it, thanks for sharing.


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## EuropeanEar

gto88 said:


> ...according to the manual, it says the normal listening
> level should be reached at 12'clock, however I found it would be too loud.
> I set it to 0 gain, single end, lcd-3. at 10 clock is already loud to me.
> How about you, the owners.



I have barely ever gone above 11 o'clock at 0dB gain setting with my HD800S — and I like to listen to loud music.  You probably won't need more volume given your source material is properly mastered.  Older recordings with -6dB peak level is a different story.


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## Slim1970

I have mine on the +9 gain setting and I rarely have to go past 10 o'clock with any of the headphones I own.


----------



## Starcruncher

gto88 said:


> Did a search and found nothing on this thread.
> I meant to ask iCAN Pro owners, according to the manual, it says the normal listening
> level should be reached at 12'clock, however I found it would be too loud.
> I set it to 0 gain, single end, lcd-3. at 10 clock is already loud to me.
> ...





EuropeanEar said:


> I have barely ever gone above 11 o'clock at 0dB gain setting with my HD800S — and I like to listen to loud music.  You probably won't need more volume given your source material is properly mastered.  Older recordings with -6dB peak level is a different story.





Slim1970 said:


> I have mine on the +9 gain setting and I rarely have to go past 10 o'clock with any of the headphones I own.



I also put mine on +9dB even though my Grados are easy to drive. There is just something a bit better about that setting. I will never go past 9:30. My DAC outputs at 3V. That is also something to consider for listening volume.


----------



## Slim1970

Starcruncher said:


> I also put mine on +9dB even though my Grados are easy to drive. There is just something a bit better about that setting. I will never go past 9:30. My DAC outputs at 3V. That is also something to consider for listening volume.


I'm using the Mojo as my DAC and it's putting out the same 3 volts. It can get very loud going past 10 o'clock depending on which can I'm using. I love the output power of the Pro iCan.


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## GHoldridge

I was wondering if anyone else experienced this. So I'm using a single ended input and output in my Ican pro. If I'm using any gain and adjust my volume I can hear a slight static noise I believe I only hear it on the left side.


----------



## Slim1970

GHoldridge said:


> I was wondering if anyone else experienced this. So I'm using a single ended input and output in my Ican pro. If I'm using any gain and adjust my volume I can hear a slight static noise I believe I only hear it on the left side.


I'm running singled ended input as well. But I'm switching between balanced and singled ended output and my system is quiet.


----------



## GHoldridge

Slim1970 said:


> I'm running singled ended input as well. But I'm switching between balanced and singled ended output and my system is quiet.


Well that's not reassuring lol..Maybe I'll have to open a ticket then. I just don't want have to send a unit back a 3rd time


----------



## Slim1970

GHoldridge said:


> Well that's not reassuring lol..Maybe I'll have to open a ticket then. I just don't want have to send a unit back a 3rd time


 A 3rd time?? That's not good. I've had no issues with mine thus far. Sorry to hear that your unit is having issues.


----------



## LoryWiv

GHoldridge said:


> I was wondering if anyone else experienced this. So I'm using a single ended input and output in my Ican pro. If I'm using any gain and adjust my volume I can hear a slight static noise I believe I only hear it on the left side.



I am running balanced and have a similar issue but it only occurs during playback, not if I adjust volume with playback paused. It is minimal and I have not been concerned, but let me know if you determine this is indicative of a problem.


----------



## gto88

I have owned iCan Pro for a couple of months, it works fine for me.
Hope your issue be gone soon.


----------



## iFi audio

GHoldridge said:


> I was wondering if anyone else experienced this. So I'm using a single ended input and output in my Ican pro. If I'm using any gain and adjust my volume I can hear a slight static noise I believe I only hear it on the left side.



It is worth checking the source for any DC offset in the left channel. We do not use any coupling capacitors to block DC, hence if the source used has some DC offset, such noise as described may happen.


----------



## bflat

Question for the owners, do you find the sound when listening shortly after turning on your iCan Pro to be dark, then gradually getting to balanced over about 30 min from turning on?


----------



## Slim1970

bflat said:


> Question for the owners, do you find the sound when listening shortly after turning on your iCan Pro to be dark, then gradually getting to balanced over about 30 min from turning on?


Are you running it in tube mode when you turn it on? But even then it shouldn't take 30 minutes to warm-up.


----------



## bflat

Slim1970 said:


> Are you running it in tube mode when you turn it on? But even then it shouldn't take 30 minutes to warm-up.



Yep tube mode. I could be off on the 30 min, but when listening as soon as the light turns yellow, it does sound dark to me. Not a problem though.


----------



## Slim1970

bflat said:


> Yep tube mode. I could be off on the 30 min, but when listening as soon as the light turns yellow, it does sound dark to me. Not a problem though.


Strange, I've never started mine up in tube mode. I've always switched to it from solid state with only a brief delay before the light turns solid orange. Everything sounds full range and open similiar to solid state but with warmth of tubes.


----------



## GHoldridge

iFi audio said:


> It is worth checking the source for any DC offset in the left channel. We do not use any coupling capacitors to block DC, hence if the source used has some DC offset, such noise as described may happen.


I wanted to correct myself in saying I hear it on both sides it's just hard because it's very quiet.  If it was dc offset would it happen only when adjusting the volume?


----------



## wadi

Since iFi announced its 2nd black label product i am wondering if we will see a Pro iCan Black Label.


----------



## Slim1970

wadi said:


> Since iFi announced its 2nd black label product i am wondering if we will see a Pro iCan Black Label.


I doubt that. From what I understand the Black Labels are using trickle down technology from the the Pro series. The Pro series is the best of the best from iFi and I'm enjoying them immensely!


----------



## alphanumerix1

So when is the ifi dsd pro due out?


----------



## technobear

alphanumerix1 said:


> So when is the ifi dsd pro due out?



Wrong thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-discussion-thread.702376/


----------



## iFi audio

wadi said:


> Since iFi announced its 2nd black label product i am wondering if we will see a Pro iCan Black Label.



Dear Wadi

Very nice idea. Will pass this thought on. We are working on lots of exciting products at the moment so just keep on listening and we will update you guys as and when we can. 

Best wishes

iFi audio Team


----------



## Serge Bernamej

iFi audio said:


> Dear Wadi
> 
> Very nice idea. Will pass this thought on. We are working on lots of exciting products at the moment so just keep on listening and we will update you guys as and when we can.
> 
> ...


Hello, 
Is the ifi ican pro a good match for an Audeze LCD3f?

Thanks,
S.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hello,
> Is the ifi ican pro a good match for an Audeze LCD3f?
> 
> Thanks,
> S.



In my opinion, it is a good match for all headphones due to its versatility.

In SS mode it is neutral and very clean, then using the tube modes you can add warmth if you like


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Oscar-HiFi said:


> In my opinion, it is a good match for all headphones due to its versatility.
> 
> In SS mode it is neutral and very clean, then using the tube modes you can add warmth if you like


Thanks ! I enjoy it with my Audeze, I just sometimes wonder if I'm getting the best out of it with the ifi.
But no complaints


----------



## qrtas

Serge Bernamej said:


> Hello,
> Is the ifi ican pro a good match for an Audeze LCD3f?
> 
> Thanks,
> S.



In my opinion, it is a great match. I am a purist so I don't EQ, surround, and other effects, especially when I listen with headphones. But I have to mention that the ifi 3D feature works quite well with the LCD3.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks ! I enjoy it with my Audeze, I just sometimes wonder if I'm getting the best out of it with the ifi.
> But no complaints



Oh I think it will be giving you 100% of what the Audeze have to offer, other amps will be more for tuning the sound rather than giving more performance.


----------



## bidn

Serge Bernamej said:


> Thanks ! I enjoy it with my Audeze, I just sometimes wonder if I'm getting the best out of it with the ifi.
> But no complaints



My impression with the iCAN Pro driving my LCD-X, which may not be too far from your LCD3, is that it is up too it and scales high enough for this LCD.

By comparison, this is not the case with  the Utopia. If I use the integrated amp of the RME ADI 2 Pro DAC, then connect instead the ifi Pro to this DAC to drive my Utopia, I can clearly notice a loss of detail. So it does not scale up high enough for what it is possible to reach with the Utopia re. detail retrieval, contrary to the LCD-X.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

bidn said:


> My impression with the iCAN Pro driving my LCD-X, which may not be too far from your LCD3, is that it is up too it and scales high enough for this LCD.
> 
> By comparison, this is not the case with  the Utopia. If I use the integrated amp of the RME ADI 2 Pro DAC, then connect instead the ifi Pro to this DAC to drive my Utopia, I can clearly notice a loss of detail. So it does not scale up high enough for what it is possible to reach with the Utopia re. detail retrieval, contrary to the LCD-X.


Interesting.
I wonder how the ifi ican pro compare to the BHA-1.


----------



## npdang

Adorama has the hek v2 + ican pro for $2,999 + free ship.  You guys can do the math on that one :0

https://www.adorama.com/hmhe1000v2a...t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905


----------



## JeffMann

npdang said:


> Adorama has the hek v2 + ican pro for $2,999 + free ship.  You guys can do the math on that one :0
> 
> https://www.adorama.com/hmhe1000v2a...t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905



The math is simple for a person who wants to purchase both the iCan Pro and the HEK v2. At a total cost of $2,999 it is equivalent to buying the HEK v2 at its retail price of $3,000 and getting the iCan Pro for free, or its equivalent to buying the iCan Pro for $1,699 and getting the HEKv2 for $1,300. I couldn't resist this deal and I ordered the combo from Adorama.

Jeff.


----------



## gto88

Good for you.
I bought the combo of LCD-3 and iCan Pro from Adorama too.
It was great buy.


----------



## frogmeat69 (Oct 8, 2017)

gto88 said:


> Good for you.
> I bought the combo of LCD-3 and iCan Pro from Adorama too.
> It was great buy.


I got in on that deal, too. Love my iCan Pro, and the LCD-3 is wonderful.


----------



## gto88

Totally agree.
I had LCD-X before, but back then I didn't have iCan pro and I was not impress
with LCD-X, so upgrade it with to HE1000.
Now, with iCan Pro, I am really happy with LCD-3.


----------



## etc6849 (Oct 8, 2017)

I use the Benchmark DAC3 feeding my ifi Pro iCan (sorry ifi, pro iDSD took too long and I couldn't keep waiting).

I haven't noticed any loss of detail on the Utopia.  If anything I might hear a little more dynamic bass/punch with the ifi, but this might be psychological.  I can tell you the difference is easy to pick out with hard to drive headphones like the HD800's.

I made less than 1 foot cables from Canare star quad though after watching this video:


If you have a single power cable near a normal XLR cable it can lead to a higher noise floor (which would explain what you are hearing).  Your observation definitely sounds like S/N related issue for sure, and I definitely believe you.

Also, you might try adjusting the gain setting down.  My first ifi iCan Pro had a noisy volume control, but Adorama took care of it.  These ifi pro products are not without fault, but they also provide world class sound.



bidn said:


> My impression with the iCAN Pro driving my LCD-X, which may not be too far from your LCD3, is that it is up too it and scales high enough for this LCD.
> 
> By comparison, this is not the case with  the Utopia. If I use the integrated amp of the RME ADI 2 Pro DAC, then connect instead the ifi Pro to this DAC to drive my Utopia, I can clearly notice a loss of detail. So it does not scale up high enough for what it is possible to reach with the Utopia re. detail retrieval, contrary to the LCD-X.


----------



## iFi audio

frogmeat69 said:


> I got in on that deal, too. Love my iCan Pro, and the LCD-3 is wonderful.



Yes, that's a good deal indeed.


----------



## Sc00p

Hi,

When switching from ss to tube+ (when the tube stage is off) or starting from off, is it normal for the led to blink red during the few seconds the music mutes before the switch?
When i set tube mode, the light flashes green until the click, then turns amber when the music turns on. However, with tube+ the light flashes green until the click, then flashes red for 4-5 blinks before turning amber when the music starts. 
I'm unsure if this has always been the behaviour, so wondering if anyone can comfirm that this is normal or not?


----------



## HeadStrong (Oct 10, 2017)

iCan Pro is on sale at Adorama (SlickDeal) for $1299.


----------



## iFi audio

Sc00p said:


> Hi,
> When switching from ss to tube+ (when the tube stage is off) or starting from off, is it normal for the led to blink red during the few seconds the music mutes before the switch?



Yes, you are literally switching the whole circuit configuration, complete devices, so the circuit needs time to stabilise.



Sc00p said:


> When i set tube mode, the light flashes green until the click, then turns amber when the music turns on.



It only does that when the tube heater is cold. What you notice there is the tube cathode being heated up to be functional. This is the blinking green

During this time the iCAN Pro continues to operate in Solid State mode, when the tube is ready to operate, it switches over. 

You may see a short period of red light (meaning circuit being reconfigured) before the light turns Amber and music playback resumes.



Sc00p said:


> However, with tube+ the light flashes green until the click, then flashes red for 4-5 blinks before turning amber when the music starts.
> I'm unsure if this has always been the behaviour, so wondering if anyone can comfirm that this is normal or not?



It is normal. It simply means the circuit requires some time to stabilize all operating conditions after switchover between devices/modes.


----------



## thyname

Anyone using this with an after market linear power supply?


----------



## Sc00p

Hi,

I just received a pair of ie800S that have 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced connectors. Could someone recommend me an adaptor preferably one solid piece, that i could use to change my 2.5mm balanced to 3.5 balanced to connect to the iCan. I can use the single ended for now, but if i have a balanced output i may as well use it. I am in the UK so somewhere here would be best for me. Thanks.


----------



## technobear

Sc00p said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just received a pair of ie800S that have 2.5mm and 4.4mm balanced connectors. Could someone recommend me an adaptor preferably one solid piece, that i could use to change my 2.5mm balanced to 3.5 balanced to connect to the iCan. I can use the single ended for now, but if i have a balanced output i may as well use it. I am in the UK so somewhere here would be best for me. Thanks.


You mean like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Headphone-...8-3&keywords=2.5mm+TRRS+to+3.5mm+TRRS+adapter
I just searched for "2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRRS adapter". Happy hunting.


----------



## Sc00p (Oct 25, 2017)

I wish it was that easy. The exact "dodgy ones i bought" from the ie800s thread, came in a little see through zip bag. Only sound from one ear bud. Not sure if it is designed to make the 2.5 trrs into 3.5 trs. But don't want to test it in the single ended in case i damage something.


----------



## bflat

Sc00p said:


> I wish it was that easy. The exact "dodgy ones i bought" from the ie800s thread, came in a little see through zip bag. Only sound from one ear bud. Not sure if it is designed to make the 2.5 trrs into 3.5 trs. But don't want to test it in the single ended in case i damage something.



That's right. There is general 2.5mm TRRS and there is AK Balanced. Unless an adapter specifically states AK pin out, I doubt it will work. If you don't find anything in UK, Plussound has a compact adapter that is one piece. I can't imagine shipping will be much to UK given the small size and weight.


----------



## Sc00p

bflat said:


> That's right. There is general 2.5mm TRRS and there is AK Balanced. Unless an adapter specifically states AK pin out, I doubt it will work. If you don't find anything in UK, Plussound has a compact adapter that is one piece. I can't imagine shipping will be much to UK given the small size and weight.



Brilliant, thank you! Now it makes more sense and i know what to look for with confidence.


----------



## bflat

Sc00p said:


> Brilliant, thank you! Now it makes more sense and i know what to look for with confidence.



Glad the help. TRRS was originally designed for headsets so the extra signal was for the microphone. AK completely rewired to R-R+L+L- (tip to base) and quite frankly, that makes no logical sense. 3.5mm is much more logical and safe at L+R+L-R- because that is essentially the same as 3.5mm TRS except the L-R- are combined into one GND. In fact, 3.5mm TRRS connectors works in SE mode in some TRS sockets and there is no way you can blow up your amp with this design. Not the case with AK pinout so need to be absolutely sure you have the right adapter.


----------



## Sc00p (Oct 25, 2017)

Is this what i am looking for?

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...nced-trrs-4-pole-converter-ultrashort-adapter


----------



## thyname

thyname said:


> Anyone using this with an after market linear power supply?



Nobody?


----------



## bflat

Sc00p said:


> Is this what i am looking for?
> 
> http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...nced-trrs-4-pole-converter-ultrashort-adapter



Yep, that will work.



thyname said:


> Nobody?



I'm curious about that too. I think the best one would be from RWA:

http://www.vinnierossi.com/mini/

Costs nearly as much as the amp though.


----------



## thyname

bflat said:


> Yep, that will work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is amazing nobody has tried!


----------



## elan120

I have been using a 12VDC linear power supply purchased from China for a short while, and I remember it made a subtle improvement in overall background, but since I was making extensive mods in my SU-1 closely after, I can't say for sure how much improvement that really was.  Perhaps at some point later I will put the original power supply back to compare.


----------



## bflat

I recently rearranged my power and signal connections for my desktop system. I tried to keep power and signals far from each other and minimize cable length. For iCan Pro, it created a pretty long run from the power brick to the amp and I couldn't avoid it crossing other cables. I decided to add a DC iPurifier to the power input on the amp. The intent was to clean up any noise picked up form power brick to the amp. I think it does improve the noise floor and clarity. It's subtle though and hard for me to imagine that using a very expensive linear power supply is going to be materially better.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I never really found the use for the tube++ mode until using the T90 with the amp. That mode actually took a good chunk of harshness out of the can; actually it makes a very enjoyable listening, very lively and euphonic!


----------



## LoryWiv

Serge Bernamej said:


> I never really found the use for the tube++ mode until using the T90 with the amp. That mode actually took a good chunk of harshness out of the can; actually it makes a very enjoyable listening, very lively and euphonic!



I also use the tube ++ mode with certain harsh recordings and am currently listening to Beethoven violin sonatas in this mode as I type. It takes the strident edge of the Stradivarius while preserving incisiveness and musicality. Not optimal for all recordings, but nice to have the option.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

LoryWiv said:


> I also use the tube ++ mode with certain harsh recordings and am currently listening to Beethoven violin sonatas in this mode as I type. It takes the strident edge of the Stradivarius while preserving incisiveness and musicality. Not optimal for all recordings, but nice to have the option.


Let me guess, Kremer/Argerich version?


----------



## LoryWiv

Serge Bernamej said:


> Let me guess, Kremer/Argerich version?


Solid guess, but actually it's a new recording with Tedi Papavrami (Strad. violin) and François-Frédéric Guy (Steinway piano).

Kremer / Argerich holds up really well also!


----------



## hamachan

LoryWiv said:


> I also use the tube ++ mode with certain harsh recordings and am currently listening to Beethoven violin sonatas in this mode as I type. It takes the strident edge of the Stradivarius while preserving incisiveness and musicality. Not optimal for all recordings, but nice to have the option.



I recently purchased pro iCAN which is still burning in (SQ seems almost settled).  I also realised how Tube+ mode is effective for historical recordings, such as golden age of Casals, Heifetz etc who are far elder than Kremer or Argerich generation (they are still alive!).  Such harsh recordings becomes so enjoyable with Tube+ mode.  For me golden age of Kremer or Argerich can be Tube mode as well, depending on the recording quality.  It is very nice option to salvage treasure from back of wardrobe. Thank you iFi!


----------



## Serge Bernamej

LoryWiv said:


> Solid guess, but actually it's a new recording with Tedi Papavrami (Strad. violin) and François-Frédéric Guy (Steinway piano).
> 
> Kremer / Argerich holds up really well also!


Haha, interesting ! I currently only own 2 versions of these sonatas. The Mutter and Kremer ones. Happy to see classical music fellows in here.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

hamachan said:


> I recently purchased pro iCAN which is still burning in (SQ seems almost settled).  I also realised how Tube+ mode is effective for historical recordings, such as golden age of Casals, Heifetz etc who are far elder than Kremer or Argerich generation (they are still alive!).  Such harsh recordings becomes so enjoyable with Tube+ mode.  For me golden age of Kremer or Argerich can be Tube mode as well, depending on the recording quality.  It is very nice option to salvage treasure from back of wardrobe. Thank you iFi!


As I said, i'm happy to read impressions from classical music lovers, FINALLY. I'll go as far as to say I don't even understand the point of "high fi" outside of classical music, and maybe some accoustic stuff.


----------



## JeffMann

hamachan said:


> I recently purchased pro iCAN which is still burning in (SQ seems almost settled).  I also realised how Tube+ mode is effective for historical recordings, such as golden age of Casals, Heifetz etc who are far elder than Kremer or Argerich generation (they are still alive!).  Such harsh recordings becomes so enjoyable with Tube+ mode.  For me golden age of Kremer or Argerich can be Tube mode as well, depending on the recording quality.  It is very nice option to salvage treasure from back of wardrobe. Thank you iFi!



I am also a classical music lover and I also recently purchased this amp, which is still burning-in (and has <100 hours of usage). So, far, it doesn't sound anywhere as musical as my Vioelectric V281 and in particular it has very poor soundstaging (where there is no front-to-back depth where the aural images of instruments/voices float in space and where there is dead-space between each instrumental image that is "black" [silent]). Do you have this problem?

Jeff.

My audio system: PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport => Matrix Sabre-X Pro DAC => headphone amplifier => HiFiMan HE1000v2 headphone


----------



## Slim1970

JeffMann said:


> I am also a classical music lover and I also recently purchased this amp, which is still burning-in (and has <100 hours of usage). So, far, it doesn't sound anywhere as musical as my Vioelectric V281 and in particular it has very poor soundstaging (where there is no front-to-back depth where the aural images of instruments/voices float in space and where there is dead-space between each instrumental image that is "black" [silent]). Do you have this problem?
> 
> Jeff.
> 
> My audio system: PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport => Matrix Sabre-X Pro DAC => headphone amplifier => HiFiMan HE1000v2 headphone


I have the iCan Pro and the HEK V2’s and I’m not hearing what you’re hearing with the combo. I’m using the Mojo as my DAC and I have plenty of soundstage depth and width on my HEK V2’s. The sound is very seductive and detailed. My first thought is it could be the DAC you’re using with the iCan Pro.


----------



## JeffMann

Slim1970 said:


> I have the iCan Pro and the HEK V2’s and I’m not hearing what you’re hearing with the combo. I’m using the Mojo as my DAC and I have plenty of soundstage depth and width on my HEK V2’s. The sound is very seductive and detailed. My first thought is it could be the DAC you’re using with the iCan Pro.



Thank you for your input. It cannot be a problem with my DAC because when I use that same DAC with my Vioelectric V281 headphone amplifier (using the same HE1000v2 headphone or my HE1000v1 headphone), then I get far superior soundstage depth and width with much greater musicality. It could simply be due to the fact that my iCanPro unit has not yet completed the "burn-in" process.

Jeff.


----------



## Slim1970

JeffMann said:


> Thank you for your input. It cannot be a problem with my DAC because when I use that same DAC with my Vioelectric V281 headphone amplifier (using the same HE1000v2 headphone or my HE1000v1 headphone), then I get far superior soundstage depth and width with much greater musicality. It could simply be due to the fact that my iCanPro unit has not yet completed the "burn-in" process.
> 
> Jeff.


Got it. I hope it works out for you. I really enjoy my iCan Pro. The Vioelectric is a great amp as well. Is the iCan Pro an upgrade or a side grade for you?


----------



## npdang

I think the iCan Pro is a great, fun amp but falls just a hair shy of being TOTL.  While I much prefer it to the leaner, more "matter of fact" sounding solid state amps like Jotunheim or GS-X, the Pro is too obviously colored (mid-centric) to be considered a reference product.  In comparison to the Allnic hpa-5000 xl ($5,500), I found the Pro to be extremely well refined and possessing a pleasing tonal richness, upfront presentation and excellent PRAT and macro dynamics, but the tube stage is disappointing and results in a far less resolving presentation, and overall there is a very noticeable lack of air and top end extension.  At this price, I would have preferred a tube input stage with no option for solid state/jfet, that was executed to provide greater clarity, tone, and presence (as you would expect from a TOTL tube linestage), rather than a cheap tool for coloring/modifying the sound.  The solid state input stage on the other hand is excellent, but more solid state sounding in comparison... tonally drier, flatter, more matter of fact.


----------



## JeffMann

Slim1970 said:


> Got it. I hope it works out for you. I really enjoy my iCan Pro. The Vioelectric is a great amp as well. Is the iCan Pro an upgrade or a side grade for you?



I decided to take advantage of this great Adorama deal ( https://www.adorama.com/hmhe1000v2a...t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905 ) that included the HE1000v2 headphone, which I wanted to buy anyway, and getting the iCanPro at a greatly reduced price was a definite advantage to buying the kit. However, it was really a side-issue because I already had the Violelectric V281 amplifier, which I have owned for a few years. I have to decide whether to keep the iCanPro for a 2nd headphone-based audio system, or whether to sell it.

Jeff.


----------



## Slim1970

JeffMann said:


> I decided to take advantage of this great Adorama deal ( https://www.adorama.com/hmhe1000v2a...t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905 ) that included the HE1000v2 headphone, which I wanted to buy anyway, and getting the iCanPro at a greatly reduced price was a definite advantage to buying the kit. However, it was really a side-issue because I already had the Violelectric V281 amplifier, which I have owned for a few years. I have to decide whether to keep the iCanPro for a 2nd headphone-based audio system, or whether to sell it.
> 
> Jeff.


That makes a lot of sense to get the two together. The HE-1000 V2’s are the best sounding headphone in my collection. The more it breaks in the better it sounds. They sound good with all genres of music to my ears. They are so lush sounding with deep full bass, warm mids, and detail extended highs out my iCan Pro. I can attest that iCan Pro does get better sounding the more hours I put on it but sound is very personal. I moved up to iCan Pro from the Oppo HA-1. Having the Vioelectric in your system already I can see how listening to the iCan Pro can be an adjustment.


----------



## LoryWiv

Slim1970 said:


> I have the iCan Pro and the HEK V2’s and I’m not hearing what you’re hearing with the combo. I’m using the Mojo as my DAC and I have plenty of soundstage depth and width on my HEK V2’s. The sound is very seductive and detailed. My first thought is it could be the DAC you’re using with the iCan Pro.



Like JeffMann  I have a Matrix X-SabrePro --> iCan Pro. Definitely do not think it lacks for spatial imaging / soundstage. Have you tried activating the 3D holographic settings? On some recordings I feel this adds realism to the soundstage through headphones.


----------



## JeffMann (Nov 16, 2017)

LoryWiv said:


> Like JeffMann  I have a Matrix X-SabrePro --> iCan Pro. Definitely do not think it lacks for spatial imaging / soundstage. Have you tried activating the 3D holographic settings? On some recordings I feel this adds realism to the soundstage through headphones.



I do not understand why I should have to activate the 3D holograhic settings to get good soundstaging *if the recording already has good soundstaging naturally inbuilt into the recording*. Many of my classical music and opera recordings have excellent soundstaging effects due to the way the recording was made and those excellent soundstaging effects should be readily apparent if one uses a good audio sytem (consisting of a good source (LP or CD), a good DAC/headphone amplifier and a good headphone). One should not have to activate an artificial holographic system to hear the excellent soundstaging that is inbuilt into the recording.

A number of my classical music recordings have very poor soundstaging and I can understand why a listener may choose to use the iCanPro's holographic settings in that situation - even though I personally find the realism-effect unnatural and of no/little value, and it seems to actually degrade the basic clarity of the sound of the classical musical instruments.

Jeff.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

JeffMann said:


> I do not understand why I should have to activate the 3D holograhic settings to get good soundstaging *if the recording already has good soundstaging naturally inbuilt into the recording*. Many of my classical music and opera recordings have excellent soundstaging effects due to the way the recording was made and those excellent soundstaging effects should be readily apparent if one uses a good audio sytem (consisting of a good source (LP or CD), a good DAC/headphone amplifier and a good headphone). One should not have to activate an artificial holographic system to hear the excellent soundstaging that is inbuilt into the recording.
> 
> A number of my classical music recordings have very poor soundstaging and I can understand why a listener may choose to use the iCanPro's holographic settings in that situation - even though I personally find the realism-effect unnatural and of no/little value, and it seems to actually degrade the basic clarity of the sound of the classical musical instruments.
> 
> Jeff.


To play the devil's advocate, one should note that most recordings were mixed not for headphones but for speakers listening. The 3D fonction, in theory, is aimed at correcting that.


----------



## JeffMann

Serge Bernamej said:


> To play the devil's advocate, one should note that most recordings were mixed not for headphones but for speakers listening. The 3D fonction, in theory, is aimed at correcting that.



Even if many of my favorite classical music/opera recordings were specifically mixed for speakers, they still image very well with my headphones. In fact, I now prefer the same recording heard over headphones than speakers - when considering them from a soundstaging perspective. I can readily mentally project the sound images into an imaginary "concert-space" well in front of my head, although I can imagine that many inexperienced headphone listeners may lack that acquired mental facility.

Jeff.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I compared directly the ifi ican pro to many other TOTL headphone amps (BHA-1, Taurus Auralic, etc), and I can say the soundstage of the ifi ican pro is equal if not better than the others. Sometimes there is also a synergy thing with DACs.


----------



## Serge Bernamej

I have compared directly the ifi ican pro with the HD800S against the HDVA600.

ifi = as detailed but better bass, warmer sounding, more liquid, and the bass boost function can really be useful with the HD800. A good bass changes everything.


----------



## Slim1970

Serge Bernamej said:


> I have compared directly the ifi ican pro with the HD800S against the HDVA600.
> 
> ifi = as detailed but better bass, warmer sounding, more liquid, and the bass boost function can really be useful with the HD800. A good bass changes everything.


Yes, the iCan Pro and HD800S’s sound great together especially with the first level of XBass+ selected. The HD800S’s never sounded so good.


----------



## gto88

+1, I had same impression of HD800 with iCan Pro, it makes HD800 flawless.


----------



## Sc00p

Another vote for the iCan + HD800S. When choosing an amp, one of my most important features is the bass boost. For me, the music i listen to half benefits from natural with no bass boost. The other half, probably because it's unnatural sounds to begin with, i much prefer with bass boost and sometimes (becoming more) i can play with the 3d. The xbass on the iCan is my favourite. When i want fun i have that at my fingers, plus reference sound when i want it.


----------



## GHoldridge

First I wanna say that I do like the ican but I believe I’m on my second or 3rd one already. I keep returning them for a rapid clicking noise that just seems to randomly develop after owning it for a few months. I mean I’m going to submit another ticket or message. I’m frustrated to have to keep sending my units back I’ve had to keep a backup system just in case. I’m wondering if I just happen to be an unlucky person to get the bad qc units or what. Has anyone else had a random rapid clicking sound like a relay turning on and off? I just can’t believe I’m the only one who’s had this issue


----------



## frogmeat69

GHoldridge said:


> First I wanna say that I do like the ican but I believe I’m on my second or 3rd one already. I keep returning them for a rapid clicking noise that just seems to randomly develop after owning it for a few months. I mean I’m going to submit another ticket or message. I’m frustrated to have to keep sending my units back I’ve had to keep a backup system just in case. I’m wondering if I just happen to be an unlucky person to get the bad qc units or what. Has anyone else had a random rapid clicking sound like a relay turning on and off? I just can’t believe I’m the only one who’s had this issue


Only clicking sounds I get are from switching to tube mode, or changing gain. Is there enough ventilation around your amp???


----------



## bflat

With the auto shutting off tubes when idle, does anybody leave their iCan Pro on 24x7?


----------



## Rayzilla

Slim1970 said:


> That makes a lot of sense to get the two together. The HE-1000 V2’s are the best sounding headphone in my collection. The more it breaks in the better it sounds. They sound good with all genres of music to my ears. They are so lush sounding with deep full bass, warm mids, and detail extended highs out my iCan Pro. I can attest that iCan Pro does get better sounding the more hours I put on it but sound is very personal. I moved up to iCan Pro from the Oppo HA-1. Having the Vioelectric in your system already I can see how listening to the iCan Pro can be an adjustment.


What is your experience like with the iESL? I was looking for the electrostatic headphone in your collection but I didn't see any or I missed it.


----------



## Slim1970

Rayzilla said:


> What is your experience like with the iESL? I was looking for the electrostatic headphone in your collection but I didn't see any or I missed it.


I haven't tried it yet but I have a Stax SR-MK-007 MKII on the way. I'll let you know how it sounds when I get them.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Anybody tried powering this thing from a good LPS? Any comments on changes in SQ if there are some?


----------



## GHoldridge

frogmeat69 said:


> Only clicking sounds I get are from switching to tube mode, or changing gain. Is there enough ventilation around your amp???


Yea I believe there’s enough I don’t have anything stacked on or right up against it. The clicking sounds like when you change the modes or gain but just erratically. I have used an temp gun to check temps for funzies to see if things were to hot but temps seem within reason considering it’s class a. I originally had thought heat was the issue because it seemed to have to warm up before it started clicking, but eventually all the previous units started clicking right after turning it on. Also it’s not protection mode there’s no audio drop out during the clicking  Also unrelated to the clicking one of the rcas is the slightest bit loose. Though I suspect that if one is loose the whole block could or would be loose but this is a first for me. I do leave my amp on most the time however ifi has said that shouldn’t be an issue and It’s generally in ss mode. I’ve had my amps repaired and replaced all through ifi.


----------



## LoryWiv

GHoldridge said:


> Yea I believe there’s enough I don’t have anything stacked on or right up against it. The clicking sounds like when you change the modes or gain but just erratically. I have used an temp gun to check temps for funzies to see if things were to hot but temps seem within reason considering it’s class a. I originally had thought heat was the issue because it seemed to have to warm up before it started clicking, but eventually all the previous units started clicking right after turning it on. Also it’s not protection mode there’s no audio drop out during the clicking  Also unrelated to the clicking one of the rcas is the slightest bit loose. Though I suspect that if one is loose the whole block could or would be loose but this is a first for me. I do leave my amp on most the time however ifi has said that shouldn’t be an issue and It’s generally in ss mode. I’ve had my amps repaired and replaced all through ifi.



Depending on what player software you are using, a too small buffer size can produce clicking or stuttering, at least in in my experience with HQ Player. Just another potential area to investigate.


----------



## iFi audio

GHoldridge said:


> Yea I believe there’s enough I don’t have anything stacked on or right up against it. The clicking sounds like when you change the modes or gain but just erratically. I have used an temp gun to check temps for funzies to see if things were to hot but temps seem within reason considering it’s class a. I originally had thought heat was the issue because it seemed to have to warm up before it started clicking, but eventually all the previous units started clicking right after turning it on. Also it’s not protection mode there’s no audio drop out during the clicking  Also unrelated to the clicking one of the rcas is the slightest bit loose. Though I suspect that if one is loose the whole block could or would be loose but this is a first for me. I do leave my amp on most the time however ifi has said that shouldn’t be an issue and It’s generally in ss mode. I’ve had my amps repaired and replaced all through ifi.



If your device acts out of ordinary, it's for the best to let us know via our support platform, to be found here:

http://support.ifi-audio.com

Now onto the next matter. Do you guys enjoy the music? We surely do and so does Dwayne Carter with out Pro iCAN! Here's the story:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0217/iFi_Audio_Pro_iCAN _Professional_Headphone_Amplifier_Linestage_Review.htm

Fabulous review!


----------



## JootecFromMars

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> Anybody tried powering this thing from a good LPS? Any comments on changes in SQ if there are some?



Not aware yet of anyone that has. May be because of the high power requirements, nobody has one that meets the requirements. The Pro iCan manual does state that a LPS should not bring any advantages to sound over the included Pro iPower.

I'd love to try because on my Sonore Microrendu, the UltraCap LPS-1 made a massive difference to sound quality over the iPower.


----------



## elwappo99

GHoldridge said:


> Yea I believe there’s enough I don’t have anything stacked on or right up against it. The clicking sounds like when you change the modes or gain but just erratically. I have used an temp gun to check temps for funzies to see if things were to hot but temps seem within reason considering it’s class a. I originally had thought heat was the issue because it seemed to have to warm up before it started clicking, but eventually all the previous units started clicking right after turning it on. Also it’s not protection mode there’s no audio drop out during the clicking  Also unrelated to the clicking one of the rcas is the slightest bit loose. Though I suspect that if one is loose the whole block could or would be loose but this is a first for me. I do leave my amp on most the time however ifi has said that shouldn’t be an issue and It’s generally in ss mode. I’ve had my amps repaired and replaced all through ifi.



Can anyone chime in on how much ifi usually charges for repairs? Are the prices reasonable?


----------



## GHoldridge

LoryWiv said:


> Depending on what player software you are using, a too small buffer size can produce clicking or stuttering, at least in in my experience with HQ Player. Just another potential area to investigate.


It’s a hardware based clicking


----------



## dcguy73 (Dec 5, 2017)

JootecFromMars said:


> Not aware yet of anyone that has. May be because of the high power requirements, nobody has one that meets the requirements. The Pro iCan manual does state that a LPS should not bring any advantages to sound over the included Pro iPower.
> 
> I'd love to try because on my Sonore Microrendu, the UltraCap LPS-1 made a massive difference to sound quality over the iPower.



I haven't experimented with a linear power supply, but I did find big improvements plugging the Pro iCan into a power regenerator.


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

What are the improvements I may ask aside from blacker background that is?


----------



## dcguy73

m-i-c-k-e-y said:


> What are the improvements I may ask aside from blacker background that is?



Hmm... I've been A/B testing the difference, which is difficult to do since the iCan takes so long to turn back on after it's turned off. Normally I plug my whole system into the power regenerator, but this time I just plugged in the iCan..and...I retract my earlier statement. Using a power regenerator vs. a power conditioner for the amp alone presents a much more subtle difference versus switching over the rest of my headphone setup to the regenerator. There is a huge difference when I switch the whole system over to the regenerator, which I would attribute to improvements in the source components more than the amp itself.


----------



## Slim1970

Rayzilla said:


> What is your experience like with the iESL? I was looking for the electrostatic headphone in your collection but I didn't see any or I missed it.


Finally got my Stax SR-007 MK II’s @Rayzilla. After I got rid of the grounding issue between the Pro iCan and the Pro iESL they sound great together. The Xbass+ and the 3D+ features also work and they made the Stax sound even better. The Pro iESL is great companion piece. If you have or if you’re looking to get some electrostats then I can recommend the iESL for them. Especially if you have the Pro iCan because all the features on it works with the Pro iESL.


----------



## FarPoint

frogmeat69 said:


> Only clicking sounds I get are from switching to tube mode, or changing gain. Is there enough ventilation around your amp???


Hello, Newbie here. Just sent my iCan back for refund after a month of enjoying the music. Had developed the rapid clacking sound this pass weekend. Was burning it in for just over 24 hours when it started. With each sound the red light would come on and the music would drop out. Adorama said box it up and return. They provided the UPS label also. Tech support said it might be a tube going bad but it would need to be looked at. I really like the sound from it and was thinking of going electrostatic next with the iESL. I'm running music from iTunes or the Sonic Internet Radio Player on my iMac feeding the Music Paradise MP-D2 DAC to the iCan balanced. Headphone is an Aeon C or the AQ Nighthawk both balanced cables. Now I guess it is back to the SE on my Teac HA-501 HPA. I think I'll order it again when the refund goes through.


----------



## gto88

@FarPoint , sorry to hear your issue with iCan pro.
I have it and so far no issue at all, maybe yours was just a defeat unit unluckily.
I like iCan pro because I cannot find any one out there so capable.
Good luck on finding another one comparable.


----------



## JeffMann

gto88 said:


> @FarPoint , sorry to hear your issue with iCan pro.
> I have it and so far no issue at all, maybe yours was just a defeat unit unluckily.
> I like iCan pro because I cannot find any one out there so capable.
> Good luck on finding another one comparable.



I have a Vioelectric V280 amplifier and an iCanPro amplifier and I think that the V280 is far superior in sound quality - even though they are comparably priced.

Jeff.


----------



## GHoldridge

FarPoint said:


> Hello, Newbie here. Just sent my iCan back for refund after a month of enjoying the music. Had developed the rapid clacking sound this pass weekend. Was burning it in for just over 24 hours when it started. With each sound the red light would come on and the music would drop out. Adorama said box it up and return. They provided the UPS label also. Tech support said it might be a tube going bad but it would need to be looked at. I really like the sound from it and was thinking of going electrostatic next with the iESL. I'm running music from iTunes or the Sonic Internet Radio Player on my iMac feeding the Music Paradise MP-D2 DAC to the iCan balanced. Headphone is an Aeon C or the AQ Nighthawk both balanced cables. Now I guess it is back to the SE on my Teac HA-501 HPA. I think I'll order it again when the refund goes through.


Yea hang in there I know the pain it sounds like the issue I had, did your audio signal get interrupted/dropped out at all? Because it didn’t for me. I really enjoy all the options that the Ican pro presents. Not to mention the 3D holo settings are helpful for when I get a nauseated feeling from the isolated audio when wearing headphones sometimes. Also not discounting anyone here, but just remember that someone’s  opinion on a piece of gears sound comes down to a combination of the other gear in use, the persons mood, and the individuals own ears.


----------



## Sc00p (Dec 28, 2017)

JeffMann said:


> I have a Vioelectric V280 amplifier and an iCanPro amplifier and I think that the V280 is far superior in sound quality - even though they are comparably priced.
> 
> Jeff.



Whether or not the sound quality is far superior, i haven't heard the V280. The reason I like Ican Pro is it's versatility.

For a long time, I went with amps without any bass boost or cross feed features. Didn't like eq. I read so much about how these ruin the sound etc. Tended to have one amp and many different headphones. I really liked my HD800 and even started to use eq for a little more bass in more recent pop music. As much as i liked the pump in bass, it didn't 100% satisfy me. However, now I became more open to eq. At the same time, i always preferred solid state to tube. But an option to add tube sound would be great, rather than buy a second amp that will be used less.
Now being open to eq and experimenting, i found that i needed a lot more power for a big bass eq on one pair of my headphones. These i like to travel with. Found micro idsd bl. My first amp, albeit portable, that had an eq switch. Wow, this made me 100% satisfied with my headphones over eq. Long story short, ended up with the Ican Pro.

Now i can listen to music anywhere from, straight up clarity of the hd800S without colour to head thumping extreme eq xbass sz2000's. And everything in between. For my tastes in music I can't have an amp without this bass boost feature. It's impossible for an amp to satisfy me without. But must be of equal quality when no colour is being added as half my listening will be this way. So this amp scratches those two itches. Then once in a while, to be able to throw in some tube colour to change things up without my table being crowded with multiple amps is great.

I said earlier in this thread, but am compelled to say again that the HD800S and this amp are amazing. Crystal clear, then when i listen to more modern music and would like more bass, two notches on the iCan and they smash it


----------



## gto88

Many mentioned that V280 is good, but I have no chance to listen to it.
However, as many agreed that the versatility of iCan pro is king.
I am listening to it with XBass 10HZ on HE1000, it makes it punch harder,
that is absolutely enjoyable.


----------



## Slim1970

Sc00p said:


> Whether or not the sound quality is far superior, i haven't heard the V280. The reason I like Ican Pro is it's versatility.
> 
> For a long time, I went with amps without any bass boost or cross feed features. Didn't like eq. I read so much about how these ruin the sound etc. Tended to have one amp and many different headphones. I really liked my HD800 and even started to use eq for a little more bass in more recent pop music. As much as i liked the pump in bass, it didn't 100% satisfy me. However, now I became more open to eq. At the same time, i always preferred solid state to tube. But an option to add tube sound would be great, rather than buy a second amp that will be used less.
> Now being open to eq and experimenting, i found that i needed a lot more power for a big bass eq on one pair of my headphones. These i like to travel with. Found micro idsd bl. My first amp, albeit portable, that had an eq switch. Wow, this made me 100% satisfied with my headphones over eq. Long story short, ended up with the Ican Pro.
> ...


One of the main reasons I picked up the Pro iCan was for the exact same reasons as you did, versatility. I can take any of the headphones I own and add a little soundstage/crossfeed with 3D+ or some bass with XBass+ and have it tastefully done without any coloration to the sound. It's not because any of the headphones I own are missing something it's because the they sound better with these features added. The HD800S's for one greatly benefits from the added low end from the XBass+. The 3D+ adds a holographic soundstage to the DT1990's and makes them an even more incredible sounding. Both of which are what some headfiers say these headphones could use a little more of.

It's amazing what this amp can do to headphones and I get that everyone doesn't like anything added to their music signal. But when it's done right the added benefits outweigh the bad to my ears. On top of that the Pro iCan has gobs of clean power and built-in tube modes. This amp may not be for everyone but for me I'm glad it exists.


----------



## JeffMann

Sc00p said:


> Whether or not the sound quality is far superior, i haven't heard the V280. The reason I like Ican Pro is it's versatility.
> 
> For a long time, I went with amps without any bass boost or cross feed features. Didn't like eq. I read so much about how these ruin the sound etc. Tended to have one amp and many different headphones. I really liked my HD800 and even started to use eq for a little more bass in more recent pop music. As much as i liked the pump in bass, it didn't 100% satisfy me. However, now I became more open to eq. At the same time, i always preferred solid state to tube. But an option to add tube sound would be great, rather than buy a second amp that will be used less.
> Now being open to eq and experimenting, i found that i needed a lot more power for a big bass eq on one pair of my headphones. These i like to travel with. Found micro idsd bl. My first amp, albeit portable, that had an eq switch. Wow, this made me 100% satisfied with my headphones over eq. Long story short, ended up with the Ican Pro.
> ...



I am at the oppsite end of the spectrum because I never feel the need to use any added bass boost to the type of music that I listen to (which mainly consists of classical music and opera). 

Jeff.


----------



## Sc00p

JeffMann said:


> I am at the oppsite end of the spectrum because I never feel the need to use any added bass boost to the type of music that I listen to (which mainly consists of classical music and opera).
> 
> Jeff.



That would make sense. Unfortunately, i listen to all kinds of music. Natural sounding classical to unnatural electronic dub step. TBH, although 90% of the time i prefer no xbass in the classical, i do sometimes feel it is needed (can look for headphone that gives the bass but then it's too bassy for the other 90% ). In the past i used software eq, but never fully satisfied.


----------



## Rayzilla

Slim1970 said:


> Finally got my Stax SR-007 MK II’s @Rayzilla. After I got rid of the grounding issue between the Pro iCan and the Pro iESL they sound great together. The Xbass+ and the 3D+ features also work and they made the Stax sound even better. The Pro iESL is great companion piece. If you have or if you’re looking to get some electrostats then I can recommend the iESL for them. Especially if you have the Pro iCan because all the features on it works with the Pro iESL.


Thanks for that mimi review Slim. 

I already have an electrostatic headphone but it is currently paired with the cheapest Amp I could get for it. I am kicking around the idea of building my own Amp with the help of my friend who has already built a few varieties of KG amps. 

I would be interested to know how close this ifi combination can get to theses heavyweights. If it gets close enough, it would be nice to have as an all in one since I already know that I like the ifi sound (with the BL).


----------



## Rayzilla

Ditto for me too. 

I love how the BL opens the sound stage of my portable ED8, which I love for it's fit, sound and styling. 

I tried a couple of the Violectric V2xx amps before and it didn't take me long to know it wasn't for me because it was too warm and I thought a lot of detail was lost. 

The versatility and power of the BL is amazing given how different my headphones are from each other and yet it addresses just about all the issues that each headphone has. And with the iESL, it can address another one of my headphones that not a many amps can.


----------



## Slim1970

Rayzilla said:


> Ditto for me too.
> 
> I love how the BL opens the sound stage of my portable ED8, which I love for it's fit, sound and styling.
> 
> ...


The Pro iCan is like the iDSD BL but on steroids. It is amazingly clean, detailed, nuanced and even more powerful than iDSD BL. It really just gets out of the way and let the each headphones personality stand out. 

Somewhat off topic, I haven't heard any other estat amps to do a comparison with, btw. But with my Stax SR-007 MKII the added bass from the Pro iCan's XBass+ feature was very welcomed. Given the nature of eStats when I got the the Pro iESL I knew that the low end would benefit from this combo and I was right. But let you ears be the final judge on that one. I for one enjoy the two together. Once the Pro iDSD is released my desktop system will be complete and offer versatility that no other desktop system has. Great job iFi!


----------



## wadi

Is there any difference between 6.3mm se outs? Manual says to use right jack for unbalanced connection and i wonder why.


----------



## tonyo442

Bonjour,
                J’avais fait l'achat d'un ampli casque ifi pro ican pro pour piloter un casque audeze LCD-4 avec déjà un bon résultat, mais ayant aussi un ampli casque Moon 430ha, j'ai suivi l'idée d'un autre forumeur de se servir d' un pré-ampli devant un ampli casque,

                j'ai donc placé le ifi pro ican comme pré-ampli, le Moon 430 ha comme ampli de puissance, et comme dac, le T+A dac8 sortant 5 volts en symétrique le tout relié en XLR, avec une écoute drive CD Icos relié en AES/EBU,

                le ifi pro ican pro étant réglé sur 0 db, ( meilleur résultat en definition et transparence, que le réglage + 9 db ) et la 3D en position 1, le X Bass à 0, le résultat est surprenant, vraiment bluffant,  le LCD-4 est un casque qui demande beaucoup de courant, comme la plus part des casques, plus il y a de courant et mieux ils fonctionnent, scène sonore plus réaliste, position des intervenants, aération, beaucoup de précision sur les instruments ainsi que plus de richesse sur les harmoniques,

                par contre je préfère le ifi pro ican sur la  position 1 transistor, la position 2 tube ne m'a pas trop convaincu, sur le ifi pro ican si je devrais rechercher un peut plus de chaleur je préfèrerai le Moon 430ha qui est doux, mais avec la rapidité du transistor meilleur tenue du grave et une très belle ouverture du bas medium, après divers essais je préfère le ifi pro ican comme pré-ampli qui apporte plus de finesse dans le haut medium, l'ensemble apporte un très bon résultat et beaucoup de plaisir à réécouter des CD,
Tony


----------



## gto88

Bonjour,
And welcome, but, this is US forum, English is the language here.


----------



## tonyo442

désolé, mais je me sers d'une barre de traduction,
Tony


----------



## gto88

tonyo442 said:


> désolé, mais je me sers d'une barre de traduction,
> Tony


???


----------



## tonyo442

bonjour, pour moi aussi les commentaires sont en anglais, je les fais traduire en français, moi non plus je ne sais pas écrire en anglais,
Tony,


----------



## FarPoint

tonyo442 said:


> Bonjour,
> J’avais fait l'achat d'un ampli casque ifi pro ican pro pour piloter un casque audeze LCD-4 avec déjà un bon résultat, mais ayant aussi un ampli casque Moon 430ha, j'ai suivi l'idée d'un autre forumeur de se servir d' un pré-ampli devant un ampli casque,
> 
> j'ai donc placé le ifi pro ican comme pré-ampli, le Moon 430 ha comme ampli de puissance, et comme dac, le T+A dac8 sortant 5 volts en symétrique le tout relié en XLR, avec une écoute drive CD Icos relié en AES/EBU,
> ...




This is from Translate.Google.com;

Hello,
I had bought an ifi pro ican pro headphone amp to drive a LCD-4 audeze headphones with a good result already, but having also a 430ha moon headphone amp, I followed the idea of another forumeur to use a pre-amp in front of a headphone amp,

so I put the ifi pro ican as a pre-amp, the Moon 430 ha as a power amp, and as dac, the T + A dac8 out 5 volts symmetrically all connected in XLR, with a listening drive CD Icos hardcover in AES / EBU,

the ifi pro ican pro being set to 0 db, (best result in definition and transparency, + 9 db setting) and 3D in position 1, the X Bass to 0, the result is surprising, really bluffing, the LCD- 4 is a headphone that requires a lot of power, like most helmets, the more current and the better they work, the more realistic sound stage, the position of the speakers, aeration, a lot of precision on the instruments as well as more wealth on harmonics,

on the other hand I prefer the ifi pro ican on the position 1 transistor, the position 2 tube did not convince me too much, on the ifi pro ican if I should seek a little more heat I prefer the Moon 430ha which is soft, but with the speed of the transistor better holding the bass and a very nice opening of the low medium, after various tests I prefer the ifi pro ican as a pre-amp that brings more finesse in the high medium, the set brings a very good result and a lot of fun listening to CDs,
Tony

Also the second email is; 

sorry, but I'm using a translation bar,
Tony

And the third is;
Hello, for me too the comments are in English, I have them translated into French, I do not know how to write in English,
Tony,

Welcome Tony, we appreciate your input on the iCan headphone amplifier. The best in this New Year to all.
FarPoint1600. (Stephen)


----------



## gto88

Ok, good to know the impression.
I will play with those setting, and see if it works for me.


----------



## bflat

wadi said:


> Is there any difference between 6.3mm se outs? Manual says to use right jack for unbalanced connection and i wonder why.



Well curiosity got the best of me. Using my Utopias, the "L" 6.3mm needs +9 dB gain for normal volume whereas the "R" 6.3mm is fine at 0 gain. I also tried the 3.5mm SE port that is under the "L" 6.3mm and that also needs +9 gain. I'm assuming the impedance matching is in play on both the "L" and 3.5mm SE. However, using the 3.5mm TRRS balanced, I believe it also has impedance matching but I get decent volume so don't need gain, but it is lower volume than straight from the middle 4 pin XLR, maybe 4-5 dB lower.

I'm interested to know if anyone else experiences the same. Utopias are very easy to drive so I was surprised to get the odd results on the "L" and 3.5mm SE ports.


----------



## hamachan

wadi said:


> Is there any difference between 6.3mm se outs? Manual says to use right jack for unbalanced connection and i wonder why.


I think wadi is asking the difference between left and right side 3pin XLR/6.3mm combo jack, isn't it?  According to the manual, the right side is L+/R+/GND while the left side is L-/R-/GND if an unbalanced headphone is connected.  It means if you plug on the left side, it will be phase inversion but you can use it.  I am connecting AKG's unbalanced headphones (32 ohm) on the 6.3mm jack and the volume indicator is usually somewhere around 10 am maximum.


----------



## bflat

hamachan said:


> I think wadi is asking the difference between left and right side 3pin XLR/6.3mm combo jack, isn't it?  According to the manual, the right side is L+/R+/GND while the left side is L-/R-/GND if an unbalanced headphone is connected.  It means if you plug on the left side, it will be phase inversion but you can use it.  I am connecting AKG's unbalanced headphones (32 ohm) on the 6.3mm jack and the volume indicator is usually somewhere around 10 am maximum.



Same volume if you use the "L" 6.3mm jack?


----------



## hamachan

bflat said:


> Same volume if you use the "L" 6.3mm jack?


Yup.


----------



## tonyo442

bonjour, même volume avec prise 6.3 mm " L " et " R " ,


----------



## frogmeat69

tonyo442 said:


> bonjour, même volume avec prise 6.3 mm " L " et " R " ,


hello, same volume with 6.3 mm jack "L" and "R",


----------



## bflat

Thanks for confirming back on L and R volume. I guess I'll need to create a ticket with iFi.


----------



## tonyo442

bonjour, serait il possible de nous dire ce qu'il en ait du suivi prise en compte du ifi pro ican, pour que nous puissions connaitre les réactions du constructeurs quand il y a un problème sur un de ces matériels, merci


----------



## hamachan

tonyo442 said:


> bonjour, serait il possible de nous dire ce qu'il en ait du suivi prise en compte du ifi pro ican, pour que nous puissions connaitre les réactions du constructeurs quand il y a un problème sur un de ces matériels, merci


I am reading your question via following google translate;
"hello, would it be possible to tell us what the follow-up takes into account the ifi pro ican, so that we can know the reactions of the manufacturers when there is a problem on one of these materials, thank you"
What does it mean "follow up (en ait du suivi)"?  iFi has support ticket system for the customer service.  Anything else you are expecting?


----------



## tonyo442

la traduction n'est pas exacte,
il est possible de nous dire comment réagi le fabriquant de ifi pro sur la panne, merci


----------



## hamachan

tonyo442 said:


> la traduction n'est pas exacte,
> il est possible de nous dire comment réagi le fabriquant de ifi pro sur la panne, merci


I agree that the online translation still has a lot of room to improve (English - Japanese translation is usually terrible).  If your own unit has an issue or a defect, I recommend you to open a support ticket regardless the warranty period is expired;
http://support.ifi-audio.com/
And see also below;
https://ifi-audio.com/warranty/


----------



## tonyo442

merci,


----------



## Alexein Aner

hamachan said:


> I agree that the online translation still has a lot of room to improve (English - Japanese translation is usually terrible).  If your own unit has an issue or a defect, I recommend you to open a support ticket regardless the warranty period is expired;
> http://support.ifi-audio.com/
> And see also below;
> https://ifi-audio.com/warranty/



If I'm not misunderstood, he is requesting for bflat to share his ticket's feedback in this thread.


----------



## bflat

IFi support is good. I get responses in1-2 business days through the ticketing system.


----------



## tonyo442

c'est bien très rassurant


----------



## iFi audio

*GE5670 reserved for flagship AMR and iFi*
*Press release*

We have some mixed news for lovers of the GE5670.

It is our understanding that we have tracked down and acquired the last known large-scale stockpile of GE5670 tubes.



 

The good news is that we have amassed a respectable inventory for AMR to use in their machines and for iFi to use in their flagship ‘Pro’ series for the foreseeable future (read: years).

The bad news is that once units in the supply chain of iTUBE2s and NOS6922s are all gone, there will be no more. The recent rise in the price of the GE5670 makes it even more the right decision to not continue with using the GE5670 in this product. Given that we need to reserve 2 pcs of the GE5670 for each Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN and for the AMR 777 machines too, priority must be given to these flagship products.

*History of the venerable GE5670*

For those wishing to delve into the history of the GE5670 and why we chose it over its ‘lesser’ cousin the 6922:

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/


----------



## ufospls2 (Jan 28, 2018)

Hey Guys,

When I was auditioning the Susvara yesterday, I was using the iFi Pro iCAN as the amp. This is the third time I have auditioned this amp, and it impressed me again. The shop had a slamming deal on an open box unit so I purchased it. I always thought that with the Pro iCAN it would be a case of jack of all trades, master of none, however, it appears this isn’t the case.

This amp is very feature rich. You can choose between SS, Tube, and Tube+ modes. There are the XBASS and 3D features, both of which are the best implementations of their kind I have heard from iFi. There are dual 3pin XLR outputs, a 4pin XLR output, two SE 1/4” outputs, a 3.5mm balanced output, and a 3.5mm SE output. Basically, you can connect most cables to this amp. Gain is selectable between 0,9,18db. The amp is pretty powerful at a peak output of 14,000mw but I’m not sure what its continuous output is. If I owned the HE6 I might want a bit more gain just incase and for headrooms sake, but apart from that this amp can pretty much run all headphones (minus electrostatic cans of course)

I own the iFi Micro iDSD BL as well, and this amp is similar in terms of features and sound. The Pro just seems to have more special sauce to it, and sounds better overall.

The comments below vs. the Master 9 were done in SS mode.

The Pro iCAN seems to be more what I’m looking for vs. The Master 9, an amp I already enjoy. The Pro has a little bit less bass presence though, which surprised me. The Master 9 sounds kind of congested and slow in comparison. The Pro has more clarity and better dynamics. The Pro also seems less “shouty” with vocals than the Master 9. All in all, I think I prefer the Pro.

Tube Mode: VS. SS mode, tube mode makes the soundstage seem more open, not wide, like there is more space around the instruments? Its hard to describe. Its not wet and gooey and mushy at all. Its very similar to SS mode, but takes a TINY bit of edge off the notes.

Tube+Mode: Takes everything you get with tube mode but is a bit rounder sounding. Has a bit more bass presence as well. I prefer tube mode to tube+ mode so far.

All in all, I’m really impressed with this amp. I was really getting kinda dissatisfied with the M9, its a real brute and powerhouse, but isn’t super refined sounding. This Pro iCAN has a bit more refinement, and better technicalities. Given the choice between the two, I reckon I would take the Pro iCAN.


----------



## hamachan

ufospls2 said:


> Tube+Mode: Takes everything you get with tube mode but is a bit rounder sounding. Has a bit more bass presence as well.


Based on the characteristic of Tube+ mode, I recommend you to try some of the historical (I mean old) recordings with Tube+ mode if you own.  Those are in general sonically harsh...such as remaining analogue hiss noise, thin tones, narrow dynamic range etc, even though engineers try to remaster them from original analogue tape by applying the most advanced digitizing technique.

In case the details have not been recorded in the original analogue tape, rounder sounding with rich tube harmonics brings me nicer.  I am enjoying 1940's monaural and 1960's stereo tracks with Tube+ mode. 1970's to 1980's sources are depending on the recording quality and sometimes Tube mode is better.

This is my feeling that how I enjoy legendary music sources with Tube+ mode.


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Hi guys

Please guide me  I have HD800S right now ,when used Ibasso DX200 amp3 balance mode the sound very clean bass powerful overall SQ very good, so the question right here if i buy tube amp like IfI pro and w22 do you thinking big upgrade for me?which one better
When i using aune x7s XLR line out SQ very good but it was slighly better than my Dx200 in drive and power not technically.
I scared spend a lot of money for hi end tube amp and don't get Upgarde .last question do you thinking when i bought hi end amp Still need to have DX200 anymore ?

Regards Mori


----------



## LoryWiv

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Please guide me  I have HD800S right now ,when used Ibasso DX200 amp3 balance mode the sound very clean bass powerful overall SQ very good, so the question right here if i buy tube amp like IfI pro and w22 do you thinking big upgrade for me?which one better
> When i using aune x7s XLR line out SQ very good but it was slighly better than my Dx200 in drive and power not technically.
> ...


I agree with *hamachan *that it is great to be able to vary amplification mode depending upon source recording age and characteristics. That versatility is amongst the best points of the iCan Pro. Right now I am listening to some Beatles (Rubber Soul) and tube mode reproduces a more analogue sound as I remember from "back in the day." However, for newer recordings I often prefer solid state mode. YMMV.


----------



## dcguy73

ufospls2 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> When I was auditioning the Susvara yesterday, I was using the iFi Pro iCAN as the amp. This is the third time I have auditioned this amp, and it impressed me again. The shop had a slamming deal on an open box unit so I purchased it. I always thought that with the Pro iCAN it would be a case of jack of all trades, master of none, however, it appears this isn’t the case.
> 
> ...



What source/DAC and headphones do you have in your system? I'm curious what you're using with the Pro iCAN.


----------



## ufospls2

dcguy73 said:


> What source/DAC and headphones do you have in your system? I'm curious what you're using with the Pro iCAN.



PS Audio Perfectwave DAC mk1 upgraded to mk2. LCD-4, LCDi4, and Abyss Phi


----------



## dcguy73

ufospls2 said:


> PS Audio Perfectwave DAC mk1 upgraded to mk2. LCD-4, LCDi4, and Abyss Phi



Wow that's a nice DAC and those are some high end headphones, especially the Abyss. I'm surprised that you're satisfied with the iCan Pro... seems like the Abyss would require something higher-end.


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "dcguy73, post: 14009940, membre: 482877"] Wow c'est un bon DAC et ce sont des casques haut de gamme, en particulier les Abysses. Je suis surpris que vous soyez satisfait de l'iCan Pro ... on dirait que l'Abyss aurait besoin de quelque chose de plus haut de gamme. [/ QUOTE]

Bonjour, 
j'ai aussi le LCD-4 comme casque, qui est un casque intransigeant, et le iFI pro va très bien, mais ce sont des casques très gourmands en énergie, et comme j'ai commencé avec le Moon 430 HA, le iFI pro ican va mieux avec le LCD-4, bien que le Lune 430 soit plus puissant mais un peut trop chaud pour le LCD-4, je me suis servi de l'IFI pro ican comme préampli,  il est très fin très subtil, il est réglé en position 0 db il apporte plus de transparence que + 9 db, et du Lune 430 comme ampli de puissance, tout est connecté en tant que symétrique, et comme dac T + A dac 8, même si ce sont des casques, plus ils ont de courant,  plus son fonctionnent est meilleur, 
Tony


----------



## dcguy73

tonyo442 said:


> [QUOTE = "dcguy73, post: 14009940, membre: 482877"] Wow c'est un bon DAC et ce sont des casques haut de gamme, en particulier les Abysses. Je suis surpris que vous soyez satisfait de l'iCan Pro ... on dirait que l'Abyss aurait besoin de quelque chose de plus haut de gamme. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> Bonjour,
> j'ai aussi le LCD-4 comme casque, qui est un casque intransigeant, et le iFI pro va très bien, mais ce sont des casques très gourmands en énergie, et comme j'ai commencé avec le Moon 430 HA, le iFI pro ican va mieux avec le LCD-4, bien que le Lune 430 soit plus puissant mais un peut trop chaud pour le LCD-4, je me suis servi de l'IFI pro ican comme préampli,  il est très fin très subtil, il est réglé en position 0 db il apporte plus de transparence que + 9 db, et du Lune 430 comme ampli de puissance, tout est connecté en tant que symétrique, et comme dac T + A dac 8, même si ce sont des casques, plus ils ont de courant,  plus son fonctionnent est meilleur,
> Tony



Wow, I can't believe I was able to understand that without Google Translate. Go go, remedial French language classes! So you prefer to use the iCan Pro as a preamp with your (higher-powered) Moon 430, as the iCan Pro is fine with the LCD-4 but not powerful enough. The Moon 430 HA sounds too hot powering the LCD-4 directly. Interesting.


----------



## dcguy73

Has anyone tried the Aeon Flow (closed or open) with the iCan Pro? Are they a good match? I just ordered a pair of Aeon Flow closed to try out, because I figured their cooler sound signature would mesh well with the warmth of the iCan Pro.


----------



## llamaluv (Feb 4, 2018)

I tried out the Aeon Flow Closed's not too long ago on the iCan Pro for an evening before moving them to my work setup, which uses an iDSD Black Label. I thought it sounded just fine on both.

Incidentally though, I've never thought of the Aeon closed's as cool-sounding. Or maybe it's just because since it's closed-backed, the bass reverb warms it up a bit.


----------



## llamaluv

On another note... kind of a frivolous question but... Does anyone have any good ideas for an alternative to the el cheapo remote? Preferably something not too big?


----------



## Serge Bernamej

Let's be serious one second. This amp is so damn overpriced. Performamce wise, it is blown away by my BHA-1 amd my Taurus Auralic mkii.


----------



## tonyo442

Bonjour, 
vous pensez vraiment que le BHA-1 et le Taurus auralic MKII sont meilleur que le ifi pro ican, en France le Auralic Taureau a été comparé à Moon 430 HA, et le Moon a été préféré, comme je disais comparer le ifi pro ican réglé sur tube II , le Moon est  meilleur à l'ouverture dans le bas moyen le grave est plus détaillé plus puissant, c'est un transistor donc plus précis avec la chaleur du tube, mais si le ifi pro ican est réglé sur position 1 transistor, le ifi a beaucoup plus de finesse et de subtilité et de transparence, il est posé sur des pieds sorbothanes qui rend le message un peut plus précis, 
j'ai un onduleur double conversion, je suis donc  sur batterie sur tout le materiel, cela dépend aussi du DAC et des câbles, 
Tony,


----------



## frogmeat69

Serge Bernamej said:


> Let's be serious one second. This amp is so damn overpriced. Performamce wise, it is blown away by my BHA-1 amd my Taurus Auralic mkii.


Explain please why you think this, don't just throw out a statement like this without some insight on why it's overpriced compared to an amp that costs $400 more than the iCan.


----------



## tonyo442

bonjour, 

le premier problème ce sont les traductions qui ne sont pas fidèles à nous que disons, ou ce que nous ecrivons mot par mot.

le prix n'est pas un critère de qualité, si je prend l'exemple des produits français, nous sommes un des pays qui avons le plus de taxes, et chaque fois que nous fabriquons un produit il est bien plus cher que la concurrence, est ce que cela veut dire qu'il est meilleur, pas du tout, et surtout il y a tellement de paramètres qui vont intervenir, les charges, les commissions, les importateurs, les monnaies entre pays,........

le ifi pro ican il y a quelques années qu'il est sortie, et une boutique ou je suis client me la proposée plusieurs fois, c'est un ampli qui ne m’interpellait pas, avec son gabarie si petit qui ne l'avantage pas, il ressemblait plus à un décodeur satellite qu'à un ampli casque, et c'est en lisant des commentaires en France et d'autres pays qu'il m'a interpellé, j'ai eu envie de l’écouter, et c'est vrais qu'il m'a surpris, beaucoup d'appareil sont donné en classe A et il ne le son pas, le ifi pro est un vrai classe A entièrement symétrisé, et cela s'entend par la finesse de restitution et les subtilités sans aucune dureté ou agressivité, je l'aime beaucoup comme preampli

Quand on veut évoluer dans le domaine de la Hifi, vous croyez vraiment qu'en dépensant 400 € de plus vous arrivez à dépasser un autre matériel, souvent il faut multiplier 2 ou 3 fois le prix de base pour avoir une différence qui sera justifié, sans parler des connectiques, je pense que sur l'ifi pro, les résultats sonores et les détails fournis, la 3 D ou les différents réglages de puissance, comme la technologie sur les composants, c'est un vrai tour de passe Il a réalisé, toujours j'attends que le iDSD pro sorte pour le T + A dac8, avec mon auditeur LCD-4, qui ne laisse rien passer et qui permet de tout percevoir,  
merci
Tony


----------



## ra990

I was reading through the ifi knowledge base and they recommend against using the ican pro as both a headphone amplifier and a preamp, stating that it may reduce the quality of the headphone output. I was planning on connecting the balanced line out to some powered monitors (JBL LSR305s) and powering them on/off when I want to use them vs the headphones (since plugging headphones in does not auto kill the preamp outs). I am trying to understand why sound quality to my headphones might be degraded if I leave the balanced outs connected to the monitors while they are powered off. Can someone explain?


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "ra990, post: 14033166, membre: 478047"] Je lisais la base de connaissances ifi et ils déconseillaient d'utiliser le ican pro à la fois comme ampli casque et préampli, indiquant que cela pourrait réduire la qualité du casque sortie. J'avais l'intention de connecter la ligne symétrique à certains moniteurs sous tension (JBL LSR305s) et de les allumer / éteindre quand je veux les utiliser avec les écouteurs (puisque brancher un casque ne coupe pas automatiquement les préamplis). J'essaie de comprendre pourquoi la qualité sonore de mes écouteurs pourrait être dégradée si je laisse les sorties symétriques connectées aux moniteurs lorsqu'ils sont éteints. Quelqu'un peut-il expliquer? [/ QUOTE]

bonjour, j'ai aussi fait des essais, en laissant le ifi pro comme preampli et en laissant branché le moon 430 ha, j'ai branché le casque sur le ifi pro, la restitution du LCD-4 audeze était dégradé, j'ai donc éteint l'ampli casque moon et je l'ai débranché, et j'ai pu récupérer la qualité de restitution, 

mon dernier branchement était d'avoir le ifi pro comme preampli, et le moon comme ampli de puissance, dans ces conditions aussi, je perdais légèrement sur des petits détails, plus il y a de materiel, de composants, et le signal se dégrade un peut, c'est vrais que l'on gagne en puissance, mais au détriment de la qualité, il y a un choix à faire, j'ai donc gardé le ifi comme ampli casque, le T+A dac8 sort 5 volts en symétrique c'est largement suffisant pour alimenter le LCD-4 audeze, on fait tous des erreurs, le plus important est de les rattraper, 
Tony


----------



## ra990

Thanks I think I understood the gist of what you were saying, thanks to a couple years of french in high school. I am surprised it's actually noticeable. Still don't understand why the line outs connected to a powered off amplifier would degrade the quality of sound going to the headphone though, could someone please explain that?


----------



## Audio-Phile

I’ve inadvertently discovered something like this - I plugged a 3.5-6.35 adapter into one of the 3.5 outputs in mine while listening to my LCD4s via 4 pin XLR - just the adapter, nothing plugged into it.  There was a noticeable decrease in volume.  I’m assuming the circuitry inside automatically “allocates resources” inside if it senses any sort of closed circuit in another output.


----------



## ra990

That's unfortunate. So I'm basically going to have to connect/disconnect my monitors when I want to listen through them instead of just powering them on. Do other amps work like this too, like the Ragnarok which also has line outs? I never noticed anything like this before on anything I've owned.


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "ra990, post: 14035285, membre: 478047"] C'est malheureux. Donc, je vais devoir connecter / déconnecter mes moniteurs quand je veux les écouter au lieu de simplement les allumer. Est-ce que d'autres amplis fonctionnent comme ça, comme le Ragnarok qui a aussi des sorties en ligne? Je n'ai jamais rien remarqué de tel sur tout ce que j'ai possédé. [/ QUOTE]

et pourtant c'est la réalité, il ne devrait y avoir que la source que l'on écoute qui devrait etre branché, le ifi pro ican est tellement précis qu'il montre la différence, et pas la plupart des autres matériels,


----------



## ra990

Is there some kind of device I can put in the middle of the ican and my powered monitors to prevent the headphone output from being affected by the turned off powered monitors being connected to the line outs? Some kind of switch that makes the ican think there's nothing connected to it's line outs? @iFi audio any tips?


----------



## GHoldridge

ra990 said:


> That's unfortunate. So I'm basically going to have to connect/disconnect my monitors when I want to listen through them instead of just powering them on. Do other amps work like this too, like the Ragnarok which also has line outs? I never noticed anything like this before on anything I've owned.


I didn’t notice a difference with my headphones when my monitors are off or disconnected. Also wouldn’t changing the input knob to an empty input be essentially the same thing as disconnecting them? I know i thought about using  a monitor controller like a drawmer 2.1 or 3.1 to be able to switch the monitors “off” without physically reaching and doing it. Also to combine my mic output with my dac output. Of course though that could just be one more peice of equipment in the signal path


----------



## ra990 (Feb 12, 2018)

GHoldridge said:


> I had a question..since Ifi says not to mix headphones, and speaker. Is turning off a speaker enough or do you have to disconnect the cables?



Looks like someone else had the same question when it first came out, but didn't see a response from @iFi audio yet. In my case they're powered monitors and I am not hearing a difference between keeping them powered off and disconnecting the cables, but I'm not running very demanding headphones right now and have the gain at 0db. Would love to know the official response to this question...

Thanks!


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Hi guys

I searching about HI END amp for headphone (HD800S) 
Do you thinking that this price range There is a better option Is it available?
Recently purchased ICAN SE and like  it so much really great, I wonder about it Product at this price amazing ,what about ICAN PRO ?????
Really curious 
Is there a better option with this price? 



Regards Mori


----------



## tonyo442

bonjour,
oui,...... le iFi  ican pro, classe A super ampli,......


----------



## yakaway

IFI makes some fantastic products. They are simple to use, sound great, and are building quite a nice reputation. This is on my short list of upgrade amps. I may consider this with their energizer for my 009's as well.


----------



## frogmeat69

The iCan Pro seems to go nicely with every headphone I try on it.  Some day I would like to try the Violectric V281, have read in many places  that it is a fantastic HP amp, but I am quite content with my iFi.


----------



## yakaway

What headphones have you paired it with


----------



## tonyo442

yakaway said:


> What headphones have you paired it with



bonjour, j'ai un LCD-4 audeze, avec T+A dac8 le tout relié en symétrique, moi aussi le iFI pro m’étonne par sa transparence, je ne pensai pas qu'un i petit ampli fonctionne si bien,


----------



## ra990 (Feb 22, 2018)

frogmeat69 said:


> The iCan Pro seems to go nicely with every headphone I try on it.  Some day I would like to try the Violectric V281, have read in many places  that it is a fantastic HP amp, but I am quite content with my iFi.


I just got the V281 and I spent a few hours listening on it and now just switched back my ican pro back and my quick impression is that the V281 seems to exhibit a tiny more bass and a tiny bit more width, but I can get that out of the ican pro with a 10hz xbass and the first setting of the 3d effect (on some songs). There's not a huge difference between the two or at least nothing where I turned it on and immediately noticed how much better one is to the other. I'm just a couple hours in though, going to spend some more time listening and decide which one to sell. I did like that I can switch the headphone and preamp functions on and off with a button with the V281, a little more convenient than having to power on/off my monitors.


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "ra990, post: 14059866, membre: 478047"] Je viens d'avoir le V281 et j'ai passé quelques heures à l'écouter et maintenant je suis revenu sur mon ican pro et j'ai l'impression que le V281 semble montrer un minuscule plus de basse et un tout petit peu plus de largeur, mais je peux sortir ça de l'ican pro avec une xbass 10hz et le premier réglage de l'effet 3d (sur certaines chansons). Il n'y a pas une grande différence entre les deux ou du moins rien où je l'ai allumé et immédiatement remarqué combien mieux on est à l'autre. Je ne suis que quelques heures, je vais passer plus de temps à écouter et décider lequel vendre. J'ai aimé que je puisse allumer et éteindre les fonctions casque et préampli avec un bouton avec le V281, un peu plus pratique que d'avoir à allumer / éteindre mes moniteurs. [/ QUOTE]
 re bonjour, si cela est possible d'avoir un compte rendu plus détaillé, merci


----------



## LoryWiv

yakaway said:


> What headphones have you paired it with


ZMF Ori's...phenomenally good!


----------



## dcguy73

Has anyone on this forum taken apart their iCan Pro? I found a video on YouTube that shows how to do it, but the guy in the video doesn't say what size torx he's using to do the disassembly. Thanks!


----------



## dcguy73

dcguy73 said:


> Has anyone on this forum taken apart their iCan Pro? I found a video on YouTube that shows how to do it, but the guy in the video doesn't say what size torx he's using to do the disassembly. Thanks!


Never mind, figured it out.


----------



## dcguy73 (Feb 24, 2018)

iCan Pro case opened and tubes rolled. Sounds better already! A more linear sound with none of the original tubes' murky coloration (which is only apparent after hearing the amp with upgraded tubes).


----------



## Katie88 (Feb 24, 2018)

dcguy73 said:


> iCan Pro case opened and tubes rolled. Sounds better already!



I thought the 5670s were supposed to be the bees knees, no? What did you swap them with?
What about the pinout? I believe the 5670s have a swapped pin compared with their relative 6922.


----------



## dcguy73

Katie88 said:


> I thought the 5670s were supposed to be the bees knees, no? What did you swap them with?
> What about the pinout? I believe the 5670s have a swapped pin compared with their relative 6922.



Western Electric 2C51s are compatible with the pinout and are (so I'm told) iFi Audio's preferred tubes for use with the iCan Pro, but they're too rare for mass production, unlike the 5670s. I got them from an iFi audio dealer who uses them in his personal iCan Pro.


----------



## Skooks

dcguy73 said:


> Never mind, figured it out.


So, how did you get into it? And, does that dealer have more of these tubes?
Thanks!


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "dcguy73, post: 14066087, member: 482877"] Les Western Electric 2C51s sont compatibles avec le brochage et sont (ainsi que je le dis) les tubes préférés d'iFi Audio pour l'iCan Pro, mais ils sont trop rares pour la production de masse, contrairement aux années 5670. Je les ai obtenus d'un revendeur audio iFi qui les utilise dans son iCan Pro personnel. [/ QUOTE]
bonjour, vous ne regrettez pas votre achat, les western sont assez chers,.....merci


----------



## dcguy73

ils ne sont pas aussi chers que les tubes Cca que j'ai achetés.


----------



## dcguy73

Skooks said:


> So, how did you get into it? And, does that dealer have more of these tubes?
> Thanks!



It's not that hard to take apart. You need size t15 and t20 torx wrenches.  if you really want to do it, I'll PM you the directions. 

The tubes came from Tim at Kitsune Hifi. I got them as part of a package deal. He usually only sells them with the purchase of a new iCan Pro, but you could always ask if he'd be willing to sell them to you separately or you could buy something else from his store.


----------



## dcguy73 (Feb 25, 2018)

duplicate post


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "dcguy73, post: 14066468, membre: 482877"] Ce n'est pas si difficile à démonter. Vous avez besoin de clés Torx de taille t15 et t20. Si vous voulez vraiment le faire, je vais vous PM les directions.

Les tubes venaient de Tim à Kitsune Hifi. Je les ai dans le cadre d'un forfait. Il ne les vend habituellement que pour l'achat d'un nouvel iCan Pro, mais vous pouvez toujours demander s'il serait prêt à vous les vendre séparément ou vous pourriez acheter quelque chose d'autre dans son magasin. [/ QUOTE]
merci,
[QUOTE = "dcguy73, post: 14066468, membre: 482877"] Ce n'est pas si difficile à démonter. Vous avez besoin de clés Torx de taille t15 et t20. Si vous voulez vraiment le faire, je vais vous PM les directions.

Les tubes venaient de Tim à Kitsune Hifi. Je les ai dans le cadre d'un forfait. Il ne les vend habituellement que pour l'achat d'un nouvel iCan Pro, mais vous pouvez toujours demander s'il serait prêt à vous les vendre séparément ou vous pourriez acheter quelque chose d'autre dans son magasin. [/ QUOTE]
merci,


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "tonyo442, post: 14066481, membre: 489344"] [QUOTE = "dcguy73, post: 14066468, membre: 482877"] Ce n'est pas difficile à démonter. Vous avez besoin de clés Torx de taille t15 et t20. Si vous voulez vraiment faire, je vais vous PM les directions.

Les tubes venaient de Tim à Kitsune Hifi. Je suis dans le cadre d'un forfait. Il ne vend pas que pour l'achat d'un nouvel iCan Pro, mais vous pouvez toujours demander s'il était prêt à vous vendre hors ou vous acheter quelque chose d'autre dans son magasin. [/ CITATION]
merci,
[QUOTE = "dcguy73, post: 14066468, membre: 482877"] Ce n'est pas difficile à démonter. Vous avez besoin de clés Torx de taille t15 et t20. Si vous voulez vraiment faire, je vais vous PM les directions.

Les tubes venaient de Tim à Kitsune Hifi. Je suis dans le cadre d'un forfait. Il ne vend pas que pour l'achat d'un nouvel iCan Pro, mais vous pouvez toujours demander s'il était prêt à vous vendre hors ou vous acheter quelque chose d'autre dans son magasin. [/ CITATION]
merci, [/ QUOTE]
sur Ebay il y en a,


----------



## dcguy73

Yes, @tonyo442, they are available on eBay also.


----------



## Katie88

dcguy73 said:


> It's not that hard to take apart. You need size t15 and t20 torx wrenches.  if you really want to do it, I'll PM you the directions.
> 
> The tubes came from Tim at Kitsune Hifi. I got them as part of a package deal. He usually only sells them with the purchase of a new iCan Pro, but you could always ask if he'd be willing to sell them to you separately or you could buy something else from his store.



I’d be grateful if you’d PM me too
Thanks for the info


----------



## dcguy73 (Feb 25, 2018)

I just want to be clear that opening up and changing the tubes in the iCan Pro most likely invalidates your warranty.


----------



## Skooks

Just to add to the what we are using with the iFi Pro iCan... I have a 2014 27" iMac with 36 GB RAM and 251 GB Flash drive. I use an external HD to keep my music files on, and connect it via Thunderbolt connectors. I have an Auralic Vega DAC/DSD. And, I have Audeze LCD-3F Headphones with a balanced Norne Audio Draug 3 Headphone Cable. All are balanced.


----------



## dcguy73

While the new WE 2C51 tubes are still burning in, I have a good impression of their sound. They are very linear and accurate sounding, a lot like the solid state mode of the iCan but a little relaxed in comparison with a little more warmth and a little more body. If you like the "tubey"/euphoric sound of the stock tubes, then stick with those. That's probably part of the reason that iFi used the GE 5670s as the stock tubes.


----------



## FarPoint

I too have opened up my Pro iCan. Reason, the songs started dropping for a few seconds then it would be back. Repeating several times before working great again. But 5 minutes later it would drop again, red power light on each time it dropped. I did email ifs support (This is my second iCan, first had a tube problem after a month in December), they asked the standard troubleshooting questions, (I have been a electronic technician since 1972). All this to say I put in another pair of GE 5670 tubes (warranty bye, bye), these from Tube World Inc. All Problems went away. 
Since then I collected some Sylvania 5670. Another pair of GE and a pair of RCA JRC 5670. I've got a pair of Bendix 2C51 coming from Brent Jessee of Audio Tubes. Let the tube rolling begin.


----------



## gto88

FarPoint said:


> I too have opened up my Pro iCan. Reason, the songs started dropping for a few seconds then it would be back. Repeating several times before working great again. But 5 minutes later it would drop again, red power light on each time it dropped. I did email ifs support (This is my second iCan, first had a tube problem after a month in December), they asked the standard troubleshooting questions, (I have been a electronic technician since 1972). All this to say I put in another pair of GE 5670 tubes (warranty bye, bye), these from Tube World Inc. All Problems went away.
> Since then I collected some Sylvania 5670. Another pair of GE and a pair of RCA JRC 5670. I've got a pair of Bendix 2C51 coming from Brent Jessee of Audio Tubes. Let the tube rolling begin.


I thought that iCan Pro is not able to swap tubes.
Looks like some are doing it now.

Is it easy to swap? ( I meant to replacing manual work, is it easy?)
And I see you have gathered some compatible tubes, care to share the list.

Thanks.


----------



## FarPoint

goto88

The tubes I've purchased are;

Pair of 5670 Sylvania gray plates square getter halo NOS around 1960 and a pair of GE NOS JG-5670 black plates triple mica D getter halo 1950. Both from Tube World, INC
Pair GE JAN 5670 black plates (in iCan now) and a pair of RCA JRC 5670 grey plates. These from TcTubes.
Last is the Bendix Red Bank labeled 2C51 coming from Audio Tubes.
Take care.


----------



## gto88

FarPoint said:


> goto88
> 
> The tubes I've purchased are;
> 
> ...


@FarPoint , that are many to begin with, thanks for the information.
When you have time, maybe you can give us your comparison of those tubes.

Cheer,


----------



## FarPoint

goto88

I'll try, but you must understand that I plan on retiring soon and am taking my time on my electronics.  So, I'll be working on the honey-do-lists.


----------



## iFi audio

Let us just leave this here....

The Sound & Vision Bristol Show 2018 is in the past now. Things happened there, oh yes they did!

 

Yup, that's our full Pro rig on the Pro iRack. 

 

Some people were impressed more than just 'mildly'....

 

And we had someone (aka The Cap'n)  in there to answer the most technical questions there are.


----------



## bfmcosta

iFi audio said:


> Let us just leave this here....
> 
> The Sound & Vision Bristol Show 2018 is in the past now. Things happened there, oh yes they did!
> 
> ...



iFi Audio,

How does the headphone amplifier in the iDSD Pro compares to the one in the iCan Pro?

Can you share the estimated launch date?


----------



## iFi audio

bfmcosta said:


> iFi Audio,
> 
> How does the headphone amplifier in the iDSD Pro compares to the one in the iCan Pro?
> 
> Can you share the estimated launch date?




Launch date is for the 15th of March.

I will get back to you about the comparison.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## iFi audio (Mar 1, 2018)

bfmcosta said:


> iFi Audio,
> 
> How does the headphone amplifier in the iDSD Pro compares to the one in the iCan Pro?
> 
> Can you share the estimated launch date?




Hi bfmcosta

There is no "headphone amplifier" in the iDSD Pro. Just a gainstage/linedriver that is sufficient powerful to drive many headphones directly, however doing so is clearly a compromise over using a dedicated HP Amplifier. It is more than adequate for anyone occasionally using headphones while mostly using a speaker based system. However, unlike the iCAN Pro it is not optimised for every headphone it drives, it cannot drive as wide a range of headphones as the iCAN Pro and it lacks the sonic controls offered by the iCAN Pro. It should be seen as a state-of-the-art DAC, which if needed may drive headphones, not as Headphone Amplifier that accidentally had some "normal DAC" fitted.

I hope that this answers your query.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## bfmcosta

iFi audio said:


> Hi bfmcosta
> 
> There is no "headphone amplifier" in the iDSD Pro. Just a gainstage/linedriver that is sufficient powerful to drive many headphones directly, however doing so is clearly a compromise over using a dedicated HP Amplifier. It is adequate for anyone occasionally using headphones while mostly using a speaker based system. However, unlike the iCAN Pro it is not optimised for headphone drives, it cannot drive as wide a range of headphones as the iCAN Pro and it lacks the sonic controls offered by the iCAN Pro. It should be seen as a state of the art DAC, which if needed may drive headphones, not as Headphone Amplifier that accidentally had some "normal DAC" fitted.
> 
> ...



Thanks iFi team! I am not really an expert to understand those technical differences, but if I understood correctly, in that case I assume an iFi Micro iDSD will still be a better option than the new Pro iDSD if it is to be used mostly with Headphones, in this case the Sennheiser HD800. Does this make sense? Thanks!


----------



## Katie88 (Mar 1, 2018)

bfmcosta said:


> Thanks iFi team! I am not really an expert to understand those technical differences, but if I understood correctly, in that case I assume an iFi Micro iDSD will still be a better option than the new Pro iDSD if it is to be used mostly with Headphones, in this case the Sennheiser HD800. Does this make sense? Thanks!



Basically, the iDSD micro offers more options as a headphone amplifier than the Pro iDSD (such as XBass, 3D sound stage correction and different matching possibilities etc.), but the DAC part won’t be nearly as good as the Pro iDSD.

Also the micro is portable (with its own battery) for use with a mobile phone too, if needed

The Pro iCAN doesn’t have a DAC at all, but is an amazing headphone amp (and pre-amp too), with all the headphone options the iDSD micro offers and many more as well as valve (tube) options.

If you have the cash, I’d purchase the iDSD micro for use alongside the Pro iCAN. - and if you have tonnes of cash, then the Pro ICan and the Pro iDSD to work together.

Between the Pro iDSD and the iDSD micro, If you’re looking mainly for headphone experience, I imagine the filters the iDSD micro offer probably outweigh the benefits of the superior DAC from the PRO.

But with a good pair of headphones like the HD800s, I would be wanting somehow to include the Pro iCAN in my set-up, as I have a feeling that the valve option on this amplifier would work particularly well with the HD800s


----------



## iFi audio

bfmcosta said:


> Thanks iFi team! I am not really an expert to understand those technical differences, but if I understood correctly, in that case I assume an iFi Micro iDSD will still be a better option than the new Pro iDSD if it is to be used mostly with Headphones, in this case the Sennheiser HD800. Does this make sense? Thanks!



Hi bfmcosta

I would say that the micro iDSD and the Pro iDSD are two very different animals.

The micro iDSD will certainly drive the Sennheisers - I'd describe it as an excellent, luxurious family car, excellent quality and perfect for everyday use.
The Pro is the convertible from the same range with the BIG engine and certainly a showstopper.  
People generally choose the one that suits their listening habits and their budget. Both are excellent depending on your needs and wants. 

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## bfmcosta (Mar 1, 2018)

Katie88 said:


> Basically, the iDSD micro offers more options as a headphone amplifier than the Pro iDSD (such as XBass, 3D sound stage correction and different matching possibilities etc.), but the DAC part won’t be nearly as good as the Pro iDSD.
> 
> Also the micro is portable (with its own battery) for use with a mobile phone too, if needed
> 
> ...



Fantastic input _*Katie88*_, thanks so much! 

Let me contextualize a bit better my setups and all my questions/doubts:

1 - At *work *I have been using the iFi Micro iDSD (with Roon for my library and Tidal-Hifi) with the Sennheiser HD800 (original non-S version). It is quite good, mostly for work as I am not dedicating 100% of my neurons to the sound quality.  So I would say for this purpose, I am quite satisfied.

(As a side note: I would like to say I use the same setup on *travel or "around the house"*, but I have not been able to make the iFi Micro iDSD work with an iPad Pro 10.5'' (2017 version) or with my cell phone Xiaomi Mi5 (2017). It is simply frustrating, it establishes a connection, I get sound for a few seconds and then the connection is lost. I gave up on it, which is quite bad since it should be one of the primary uses of the Micro iDSD - *iFi audio team*, if you read this, any insight would be very much appreciated)

2 - At *home*, I have a stereo speaker system with which I feel very happy with:
- Synology DS916+ (running Roon server) - Auralic Aries Mini streamer - USB to Auralic Vega DAC (which in EXACT mode is a totally different beast than AUTO clock mode) - Pathos Ethos amplified - ProAc Response D48R
As you can see, I am unable to listen to headphones at home. I recently brought the iFi Micro iDSD with me to home, and I realized how much better the Sennheiser HD800 can sound if using only the Headphone amp of the Micro iDSD fed with an analogue signal from the Auralic Vega Dac (as would be expected, of course, considering it is a +3000Eur/USD dedicated Dac).

This made me wonder how much of the HD800 potential I have been missing all this time, so a better dedicated Headphone Amp came to my mind.. I have been curious with the iFi iCan Pro, but unfortunately I have not been able to listen to it in Portugal (I contacted the official dealer a week ago by email, but got no response). It would also be nice for me to have an Head-amp with remote control (which the iFi iCan Pro does not have - EDIT: does have a remote!), as I could sit/lay down  in my couch 2 meters away from my hifi rack, but I guess if sound-wise it is great, I could adapt to the lack of volume control (maybe controlling volume with the Vega Dac)... I also have a few other amps in mind, including:
- Violectric v281,
- Auralic Taurus mk II,
- SPL Phonitor X or SPL Phonitor E
...but again I have not been able to demo any of these, which at this price range is quite difficult for me to purchase blindly (unless a very good deal shows up...).

Another question I have is whether I should consider Headphone Amps only, or Headphone Amp + DAC, as if I wish to "transport" it to another place (home office, bedside table...), I would be able to do so without depending on another external Dac, such as for example:
- Sony ta zh1es (on offer at 1200Eur; could not use a balanced connection from the Vega Dac)
- Sennheiser HDV 820 (probably a very good match for the Sennheiser HD800, could use balanced connection)
- Chord Hugo 2 (unbalanced only)
- RME ADI-2 Pro (balanced)

Any "fresh" input is very much appreciated! 



iFi audio said:


> Hi bfmcosta
> 
> I would say that the micro iDSD and the Pro iDSD are two very different animals.
> 
> ...



Thanks _*iFi audio team*_. I can easily anticipate the DAC section would be "incomparable" between the Micro iDSD and the iDSD Pro, but my question was more related to the headphone amp section only. In other words, which of these 2 setups do you think would sound better exclusively with the Sennheisers HD800:
- iFi iDSD Pro (only, with its built in headphone output)
- or iFi iDSD Pro DAC feeding an analogue signal to the iFi Micro iDSD

Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio

bfmcosta said:


> Fantastic input _*Katie88*_, thanks so much!
> 
> Let me contextualize a bit better my setups and all my questions/doubt:
> 
> ...



Hi bfmcosta

It sounds like a poor USB connection (mechanically/electrically). I would make sure to test the OTG Adapter and/or Camera Connection Kit separately and any extra USB Cable used, to eliminate problems.

I hope that this helps.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## iFi audio

bfmcosta said:


> Fantastic input _*Katie88*_, thanks so much!
> 
> Let me contextualize a bit better my setups and all my questions/doubts:
> 
> ...




Hi bfmcosta

Why don't you try both and see which portability/flexibility option you prefer?

In terms of VFM, adding iCAN Pro to iDSD micro is a better choice to match a high end headphone than adding a super duper DAC to the admittedly good headphone amp in the iDSD micro. Then, at a later date upgrading from the iDSD micro to an iDSD Pro will give a significant and meaningful upgrade.

I hope that this helps.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## yakaway (Mar 1, 2018)

Try the hugo 2.  You can use it as an amp dac at work and line-in  at home. Great sound. Great volume.


----------



## bearwarrior

bfmcosta said:


> Fantastic input _*Katie88*_, thanks so much!
> 
> Let me contextualize a bit better my setups and all my questions/doubts:
> 
> ...



I wonder what your setup chain looks like for the work setup. What streamer do you use to connect Roon and micro iDSD?


----------



## bfmcosta

iFi audio said:


> Hi bfmcosta
> 
> It sounds like a poor USB connection (mechanically/electrically). I would make sure to test the OTG Adapter and/or Camera Connection Kit separately and any extra USB Cable used, to eliminate problems.
> 
> ...



Indeed, I have been using "aftermarket" USB cables. But I will gladly buy an original Apple Camera connection kit if that solves the issue! Will try that, thanks.



iFi audio said:


> Hi bfmcosta
> 
> Why don't you try both and see which portability/flexibility option you prefer?
> 
> ...



The reason I cannot try both options is really related to the cost! 

Anyway, your suggestion of investing now more on a better Headphone Amp makes sense, and I will probably go that route. Indeed, now that I think about it, DACs are getting better and better, and less expensive, every year, while I think that is not really the case with headphone amps...




yakaway said:


> Try the hugo 2.  You can use it ad an amp dac st work and line  dac at home. Great sound. Great volume.



The only reason I consider the Hugo is the total flexibility/portability. But I am very afraid in terms of sound quality it would not really bring any benefits comparing to the setup I can use now (Auralic Vega Dac + iFi Micro iDSD as headphone amp). The fact the Hugo has no analogue inputs at all, and of course no balanced options, makes it less attractive in terms of sound quality only. Again, I do not how how good/great it sounds as a whole (Dac + Headphone Amp), but I am afraid it would be a "sidegrade" and not an upgrade...



bearwarrior said:


> I wonder what your setup chain looks like for the work setup. What streamer do you use to connect Roon and micro iDSD?



At work I simply connect the Micro iDSD via USB to my windows PC (which is connected via VPN to my Roon server running in the NAS at home  )


----------



## yakaway

We can talk about digital and analogue and balanced vs unbalanced, and this input vs that input, but I'll say this much...  The hugo 2 with the utopias is one of the best and simplest setups I've ever had and I knew right away that it's special. HUGO 2 scales the best of your best headphones and works wonderfully well with most IEMs I have.

I've been waiting to buy the ifi black label, but at this point,  I no longer feel it'll add anything, either at homeor while on the road.

Hugo 2 is great because you can take it to go or set it up in your home system... or do both, like I do. With chord blu, the results are amazing at home. There are articles out there about how well the two synergize.

I hear what youre saying about your home setup.  You already have a lot invested ans probably are pretty happy with that setup. Vega dac is outstanding.  

I'd recommend picking up a nicely used one. They are a little pricey, but you can likely sell it for near what you pay for it if you aren't thrilled. 

As a side note, the ifi pro iESLand iESL is a great setup for home.it'll be great with  iDSD or that vega.


----------



## iFi audio

bfmcosta said:


> Indeed, I have been using "aftermarket" USB cables. But I will gladly buy an original Apple Camera connection kit if that solves the issue! Will try that, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hi bfmcosta

We wish you all the best with your system.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## LoryWiv

bfmcosta said:


> Fantastic input _*Katie88*_, thanks so much!
> 
> It would also be nice for me to have an Head-amp with remote control (which the iFi iCan Pro does not have



The iFi iCan Pro does ship with a simple remote for volume control...at least mine did. I cannot comment on how well it works as I listen at desktop and do not use the remote.


----------



## bfmcosta

Great, thanks for clarifying! I checked the information on the website and did not find anything regarding a remote control, but apparently it does come with one. Another positive for the iCan Pro


----------



## Skooks (Mar 11, 2018)

LoryWiv said:


> The iFi iCan Pro does ship with a simple remote for volume control...at least mine did. I cannot comment on how well it works as I listen at desktop and do not use the remote.


The remote that came with my Pro iCan is mediocre... but it does function, but rather slowly on the volume. It's definitely not up to par with the amp... which is outstanding!


----------



## iFi audio

LoryWiv said:


> The iFi iCan Pro does ship with a simple remote for volume control...at least mine did. I cannot comment on how well it works as I listen at desktop and do not use the remote.



Many thanks LoryWiv for your feedback.

Enjoy your Pro iCAN!

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## iFi audio

bfmcosta said:


> Great, thanks for clarifying! I checked the information on the website and did not find anything regarding a remote control, but apparently it does come with one. Another positive for the iCan Pro



Many thanks bfmcosta for your comment.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## Katie88

iFi audio said:


> Many thanks LoryWiv for your feedback.
> 
> Enjoy your Pro iCAN!
> 
> ...



Speaking of remotes, what would I be able to name as the right model to program a Logitech programmable remote with? - ifi is not listed, but I’m sure there will be another model with the same coding, no?


----------



## bfmcosta

Katie88 said:


> Speaking of remotes, what would I be able to name as the right model to program a Logitech programmable remote with? - ifi is not listed, but I’m sure there will be another model with the same coding, no?


I am also interested in this, as I use a Logitech Harmony remote for all my setups. Maybe iFi would be AMR? If not, one can always "teach" the majority of Logitech remotes using the original remote (iFi in this case)...


----------



## iFi audio

bfmcosta said:


> I am also interested in this, as I use a Logitech Harmony remote for all my setups. Maybe iFi would be AMR? If not, one can always "teach" the majority of Logitech remotes using the original remote (iFi in this case)...



Hi bfmcosta. Teaching will work.

Best wishes

iFi audio team


----------



## chaz_flhr

BarDash said:


> Ughhh... Please don't tempt me with the iDAC! "Breaking in the Yggy with the iCAN as we speak. And I must say it's a wonderful combo! Best system I've ever heard.  My 2nd gen WA7's are jealous my Jotunheim/Mimby is in a box and my wallet hates me!



How much better than the WA7's  as I just picked a WA7d for my Aeons at 799. Plus the upgraded tubes.


----------



## chaz_flhr

1BADJAD said:


> Ummm, not a review by any means...just my first thoughts/impressions of this beast of an amp/DAC.  It'll probably take me a bit to get there, since I tend to take the long approach.  First, I've been using and Auralic Stack (Vega + Taurus MKII) for approximately a year.  I love it far better than anything I owned before it (Woo WA7 + WA7tp, Burson Conductor SL and other lesser Dac/Amp combos).  I have a collection of headphones to include the HE1000 V2's, HD800's, TH900's and T1's and have sold off AKG 712's and Audeze LCD-2's (Fazor) that I didn't like as much as the aforementioned.  I was getting ready to sell my T1's as well to finalize my collection down to my favorite 3 sets of headphones.  I considered the T1's as great all around headphones, but they were no where near as good (in my very unprofessional opinion) as the HE-1000 V2's (same "all around" category for me), so I decided to put them up for auction.  OK...now to the ifi iCAN Pro.  I saw a special on Adorama a short while back for $400 off the retail price and couldn't resist pulling the plug...thanks Paypal Credit.  I didn't think it would even come close to competing with the Auralic Taurus MKII, but I missed having a tube amp and thought I'd give it a try.  It arrived the other day, and I put off doing anything with it for a couple of days.  Yesterday, I finally hooked it up my Auralic Vega DAC via RCA connectors and fired it up in tube mode (middle dial), 18dB (high) gain, 10Hz Xbass with 3D set to the "off" position and let it sit there for a while to warm up.  I broke out the T1's for a listen as I haven't used them in quite a while.  I couldn't believe my ears.  Right out of the box this thing sounded better with the T1's than my Taurus MKII without even burning the darn thing in.  I thought my ears MUST be playing tricks on me, so I did an A/B with the Taurus (both amps conveniently hooked up at the same time via XLR and RCA).  Yep....the ifi sounds better with the T1's, and not just by a little...a lot better.  To me, for comparisons sake, the T1's with the Auralic/ifi combo sound as good or better than the HE-1000 V2's with the Auralic stack.  The bass was more pronounced and the treble sibilance was gone.  I listened to tons of different music genres (DSD Dire Straits, HD Elton John, HD Eagles, HD Doobie Brothers, lossless Eminem, DMC OST, etc...you get the drift).  My guess (100% guess, since I don't know what the he#$ I'm talking about) is that the T1's were underpowered with the Taurus...is that even possible?  I've read many reviews that state the Taurus has plenty of power, even enough for the hard to drive HE-6's.  I was in audio nirvana for several hours yesterday...so much so, that I didn't bother trying the ifi with any other headphones and/or experimenting with any of my initial settings.  I just sat there listening with my jaw dropped.  I'm pretty sure the Auralic Vega has a lot to do with my listening pleasure, as it's a pretty incredible DAC.  I can't wait to try the ifi with my other headphones to see if I experience a sound improvement with those as well.  I'm  not sure what to think, as the Auralic stack was my "end game" setup.  I have to wonder just how good the ifi will sound after 100+ hours through it...can it get that much better?  Also, I'm very interested in reading replies to this threat now, because I want to see what others are experiencing what I did with their listening sessions with the ifi, since everyone's ears are different (mine happen to be OLD).  Wow....color me impressed!



in your opinion how much better is the Pro-iCAN to the WA7 as I just got a WA7d on Monday and on Thursday got a great deal on a Pro iCAN <1,000.00


----------



## 1BADJAD

chaz_flhr said:


> in your opinion how much better is the Pro-iCAN to the WA7 as I just got a WA7d on Monday and on Thursday got a great deal on a Pro iCAN <1,000.00


It really depends on the set of headphones your using your setup with.  I've been using the Pro-iCAN for a while now, and I really only prefer it to the Taurus MKII with two of my headphones:  The T1's & the LCD4's.  It all comes down to a matter of taste really.  I guess the two I mentioned just needed more power to show what they were capable of, and the Pro-iCAN has that in spades.  I love it with all of my headphones, but the MKII edges it out on all but the two I mentioned.  The WA7d is an excellent setup as well, so you can't go wrong there.  Happy listening!


----------



## tonyo442

1BADJAD said:


> It really depends on the set of headphones your using your setup with.  I've been using the Pro-iCAN for a while now, and I really only prefer it to the Taurus MKII with two of my headphones:  The T1's & the LCD4's.  It all comes down to a matter of taste really.  I guess the two I mentioned just needed more power to show what they were capable of, and the Pro-iCAN has that in spades.  I love it with all of my headphones, but the MKII edges it out on all but the two I mentioned.  The WA7d is an excellent setup as well, so you can't go wrong there.  Happy listening!



Hello, I also have a LCD-4 and I'm looking for a second helmet, SVP that brings the T1, compared with the LCD-4, thanks


----------



## tonyo442

the more i listen to the ifi pro ican, and the more it surprises me by its restitution, its musacality, its performances, if the iDSD pro ifi is as good it will disturb the concurence, as the ifi pro ican, .... ..


----------



## Sound Eq

it just seems I am having tons of back luck, bought on march-10-2018 both the ifi pro ican and ifi dsd micro black label. The BL was sent back to ifi to replace due to noise issues. Anyway got home today and I tried to turn on the ifi pro ican and it did not turn on, I looked at the power supply and the white light was not on, tried the power supply alone without connecting it to the amp on different power outlets at home, nothing no sign of the white light on the ipower supply.

I am so unhappy, why all these problems. It was working fine yesterday, what happened I have no clue, so I opened a ticket with ifi, which again hope it gets solved fast. Until then my question is can I use a third party power supply or not?


----------



## elan120

Sound Eq said:


> it just seems I am having tons of back luck, bought on march-10-2018 both the ifi pro ican and ifi dsd micro black label. The BL was sent back to ifi to replace due to noise issues. Anyway got home today and I tried to turn on the ifi pro ican and it did not turn on, I looked at the power supply and the white light was not on, tried the power supply alone without connecting it to the amp on different power outlets at home, nothing no sign of the white light on the ipower supply.
> 
> I am so unhappy, why all these problems. It was working fine yesterday, what happened I have no clue, so I opened a ticket with ifi, which again hope it gets solved fast. Until then my question is can I use a third party power supply or not?


Sorry to hear about your issues.  The short answer to your question is "Yes", you can use any DC power supply capable of output 9V/6.7A to 18V/3.35A.  I have been using mine with different 12VDC power supply for awhile with good result.


----------



## Skooks

Has anyone found a power supply for the Pro iCan that actually improves the sound. I have wondered about trying a good one... like maybe the Uptone Audio JS-2... but, it is expensive to try. Has anyone tried that one?


----------



## Sound Eq (Mar 19, 2018)

elan120 said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues.  The short answer to your question is "Yes", you can use any DC power supply capable of output 9V/6.7A to 18V/3.35A.  I have been using mine with different 12VDC power supply for awhile with good result.


can i ask if there anything special bout ifi power supply that third part ones would affect negatively if used instead the original one


----------



## elan120

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask if there anything special bout ifi power supply that third part ones would affect negatively if used instead the original one


I can't see there is anything special about iFI power supply that another good quality low output noise power supply cannot accomplish.




Skooks said:


> Has anyone found a power supply for the Pro iCan that actually improves the sound. I have wondered about trying a good one... like maybe the Uptone Audio JS-2... but, it is expensive to try. Has anyone tried that one?


I happened to be using this exact power supply with good results, and improved SQ in both detail level and dynamic.


----------



## bflat

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask if there anything special bout ifi power supply that third part ones would affect negatively if used instead the original one



Yes, the iFi power supply is a switching type (low cost), but has iFi noise cancelling technology that measures as well as linear power supplies (high cost). If you do opt for a 3rd party, you will want a low noise linear power supply, but in the power rating needed for the iCan Pro, it will be very expensive like the Uptone.

Something you may want to try that is cheaper is a good switching DC power supply with the iFi DC Purifer. I would imagine it's similar to what is already inside the iFi power supply and sells for $100 USD:

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/


----------



## Sound Eq (Mar 19, 2018)

bflat said:


> Yes, the iFi power supply is a switching type (low cost), but has iFi noise cancelling technology that measures as well as linear power supplies (high cost). If you do opt for a 3rd party, you will want a low noise linear power supply, but in the power rating needed for the iCan Pro, it will be very expensive like the Uptone.
> 
> Something you may want to try that is cheaper is a good switching DC power supply with the iFi DC Purifer. I would imagine it's similar to what is already inside the iFi power supply and sells for $100 USD:
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/



well then I will wait for ifi to respond to the ticket I opened instead of using a third party power supply as how will I even know if the third party power supply has low output noise , I just used the amp for a week and now this happens, I hope ifi will send a replacement soon


----------



## Sound Eq

can I use this as a power supply, until I figure out the issue I have with ifi own power supply


----------



## iFi audio

Sound Eq said:


> can I use this as a power supply, until I figure out the issue I have with ifi own power supply




https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-ican/#tab2

As the specs state 18V as maximum, no this power supply should not be used.

What is wrong with your iFi power supply? Please PM us and we'll gladly help.


----------



## Sound Eq

iFi audio said:


> https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-ican/#tab2
> 
> As the specs state 18V as maximum, no this power supply should not be used.
> 
> What is wrong with your iFi power supply? Please PM us and we'll gladly help.



thanks I already opened a ticket with ifi and they will send a new one, thanks 

I love ifi support they are the best in handling issues, let alone the amazing ifi pro ican which is the best amp ever heard


----------



## iFi audio

Sound Eq said:


> thanks I already opened a ticket with ifi and they will send a new one, thanks
> 
> I love ifi support they are the best in handling issues, let alone the amazing ifi pro ican which is the best amp ever heard



That's good to know, enjoy!


----------



## Currawong

Two interesting products arrived recently which sound pretty good together.


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask again, i have another power supply then the previous one i posted

can i use this until i get the official one back from ifi


----------



## elan120

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask again, i have another power supply then the previous one i posted
> 
> can i use this until i get the official one back from ifi


This power supply will work since both output voltage and current are within the specified range.


----------



## bflat

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask again, i have another power supply then the previous one i posted
> 
> can i use this until i get the official one back from ifi



You also want to make sure the polarity matches.It's most likely the same, but your photo cuts off where the polarity is specified (+). Also please use the thumbnail option for uploading photos.


----------



## gto88

bflat said:


> You also want to make sure the polarity matches.It's most likely the same, but your photo cuts off where the polarity is specified (+). Also please use the thumbnail option for uploading photos.


I was about to say the same. check polarity.


----------



## Sound Eq

bflat said:


> You also want to make sure the polarity matches.It's most likely the same, but your photo cuts off where the polarity is specified (+). Also please use the thumbnail option for uploading photos.



is this pic better


----------



## bflat

Sound Eq said:


> is this pic better



Well, it looks like a standard center (+) plug. However, I don't know why there are 2 separate indicators. Never seen that before. Personally, I would wait for the replacement power supply.


----------



## bildar

Hi! When is the iDSD Pro going to be available to purchase?


----------



## Sound Eq

bflat said:


> Well, it looks like a standard center (+) plug. However, I don't know why there are 2 separate indicators. Never seen that before. Personally, I would wait for the replacement power supply.



yeah then i will wait


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, *Salon Audio Montreal Fest* is the place to be this weekend.

Over 100 exhibitors, over 300 brands! And yes, iFi audio is there as well. Montreal's Hotel Bonaventure during this weekend is yet another place to witness what our Pro iDSD is capable of. If you're around, please *visit us!*

*The show starts on the 23rd of March 2018 at 11:00 local time and ends on the 25th of March 2018 (17:00).*


----------



## tonyo442

hello, did some of you have been able to test this product, thank you
https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/alim...-iusb-30-nano-power-alimentation-p-10941.html


----------



## hamachan

tonyo442 said:


> hello, did some of you have been able to test this product, thank you
> https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/alim...-iusb-30-nano-power-alimentation-p-10941.html


I am using nano iUSB3.0 for micro iDAC2 fed to pro iCAN.  My chain is as follows;
Windows 10 PC --> bundled blue USB cable --> nano iUSB3.0 -->  Own made dual-head short USB cable --> micro iDAC2 -->  Belden 88760 RCA cable --> pro iCAN (for headphone or feeding to pre-main amp of speaker system)

By adding nano iUSB3.0 in the chain, SQ improvement is noticeable, such as the sharp and higher resolution image, detailed and better separation image etc.  I am happy to use it.  Before I purchased it, I borrowed it from a local retailer to test my chain (they have a rental program for promotion).  I recommend you to test yourself if possible in your country.


----------



## tonyo442

hamachan said:


> I am using nano iUSB3.0 for micro iDAC2 fed to pro iCAN.  My chain is as follows;
> Windows 10 PC --> bundled blue USB cable --> nano iUSB3.0 -->  Own made dual-head short USB cable --> micro iDAC2 -->  Belden 88760 RCA cable --> pro iCAN (for headphone or feeding to pre-main amp of speaker system)
> 
> By adding nano iUSB3.0 in the chain, SQ improvement is noticeable, such as the sharp and higher resolution image, detailed and better separation image etc.  I am happy to use it.  Before I purchased it, I borrowed it from a local retailer to test my chain (they have a rental program for promotion).  I recommend you to test yourself if possible in your country.



thank you
Tony


----------



## tonyo442

elan120 said:


> I can't see there is anything special about iFI power supply that another good quality low output noise power supply cannot accomplish.
> 
> 
> 
> I happened to be using this exact power supply with good results, and improved SQ in both detail level and dynamic.



hello, I think we must give time to ifi pro to improve their diet, yet professionals like Naim think about it for a long time and took seriously their external power supplies, adapting them to the improvements and accessible to all bugets,
tong


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, it's that time of a year, you know... eggs and all that jazz. Hence please allow us to leave our critter here:





... aaaaand that's it! Right? RIGHT?!?

Well, nope.

We have something *very special *to share with you tomorrow. Very, very special.

Stay tuned!


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, you probably know already that our big MQA update is here already. We still have some aces left up in our sleeves, but for the sake of spreading the good word, we'll post our official release here as well:

*Extra Ordinary MQA Easter Egg*







*Introduction*

With Easter just around the corner, iFi audio has delivered an eagerly anticipated upgrade option as a very special Easter gift.

iFi first introduced MQA into its product mix with the nano iDSD Black Label in November 2017. Since then, iFi customers across the globe have been asking when this option would be available in other iFi products. The good news is that the latest improvements to the nano Black Label firmware version 5.30, ‘Cookies & Cream’, does just that.

*Mqa for all*

This latest firmware flavour not only adds the latest scoop to the nano iDSD Black Label sundae but it also dishes out MQA (Master Quality Authenticated) audio to the full range* of iFi audio products going back to 2013!






This ‘legacy’ update means that you can now download the MQA upgrade (PC and Mac) straight from the Support section of iFi’s website at no extra cost.

*Mqa optimised*

Firmware version 5.30 will optimise your device for MQA and can handle up to DSD256 and PCM384. Enjoy the MQA magic like never before.



*And Finally…*

None of the above would have been possible without the MQA software engineers who worked tirelessly alongside the iFi software team to make this unique opportunity happen. Thank you.

Go to https://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/mqa-firmware/ to enjoy your upgrade.

This firmware provides MQA rendering as this is the ideal solution for portable products and those with power considerations. This means the workload is shared between the host (the computer) and the client (the DAC). The listener will still enjoy full MQA experience.

For more information on MQA, go to http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/how-it-works

Legacy

*The only exception is the original iDAC.


----------



## iFi audio

*Easter ‘Bug Bounty’ Hunt.
Hunt 'em, wherever they are...
*

*
Introduction*

Our just announced firmware v5.30 is MQA capable and in one fell swoop, elevates legacy iFi products* with MQA capability for even more sonic enjoyment.

The MQA integration was a little difficult. It involved:

Totally replacing the customised core code
Re-apply tuning/core loading and
Further fine tuning the firmware for even more precise allocated resource use in order to allow us to support MQA _and_ 384kHz.

To bring all this to fruition required the combined efforts of the MQA and iFi software developers or a total of +1,000 programming hours to deliver firmware v5.30 (excluding testing on all iFi legacy units).

Notwithstanding, there _may_ still be one or two software bugs we have not quashed – hence we would like to involve you, the customer – in the Easter Bug Hunt.

*More details are to be found in this thread:*

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-easter-‘bug-bounty’-hunt.876057/


----------



## dcguy73

Aww, you guys are great! I like manufacturers that continue to support their older products with upgrades.


----------



## Katie88

iFi audio said:


> Folks, you probably know already that our big MQA update is here already. We still have some aces left up in our sleeves, but for the sake of spreading the good word, we'll post our official release here as well:
> 
> *Extra Ordinary MQA Easter Egg*
> 
> ...



Thanks!


----------



## Beolab (Apr 3, 2018)

Got the IFi iCan Pro home for testing and comparison to my reference amp; Moon 600i by SimAudio.



Some thoughts after 1,5 week of burn in and listening test: ( 200 hours burn in with signal passing through on medium volume)

The Ican Pro ( on Tube setting ) wIth the XBass and 3D Holographic set to off, connected with balanced XLR Nordost Valhalla 2 fed buy dCS Puccini SACD/DAC + dCS Puccini Master Clock ( -0,1 ppm jitter value) i
find the the Ifi to be a extreme transient fast amp, with great control / separation. The sound is very precise and handles all sorts of complex music with a glance. It projects eveything like an big Krell FBI amp.
On these parameters the iCan Pro is one of the best headphone amps on the market, or if not the best. ( i have tested about 25 high end headphone / speaker amps the last 3 years time)

Cons:

What i miss out is the musicallity in terms of dynamics , vividness, depth, nuances , air around notes , some micro detail, and it need alot more weight on voices,  drums , strings and brass instruments.
It sounds like the tonal setting is raised / elevated, so a gitarr does not sound real, more like a synthetic version for example. Frank Sinatra sounds thin and not genuine , but it is not vail either, It needs more musicallity / warmth in my taste to move your soul just.

It is probably the best headphone amp for a Pro or a amatur studio because of its up right monitor sound.

So the things it does great the Ican Pro does really good, but it needs more refinement and tuning of the musicality from iFi, is my final conclution for my taste.

The Ifi micro BL sounds more vivid, and musical with nuaces and got great warmth. The BL cannot compare with the Ican Pro’s greater aspects i have mention, but it is better in overall musicality, but not as transparent.

The Moon 600i is not that transient fast as the Ican Pro , but it is silky smooth , and calm ,  airy and musical, with a huge power current reserve on tap so the music sounds more dynamic and overall lifelike. A string or voice sounds very impressive lifelike and got a visceral feel to the sound, but is not that overal consequent and stable as the Ican Pro is, the 600i performance can vary slightly.

( SS , Tube , Tube+ was tested, but i find the tube mode to sound more robust than the other two modes.)


So if iFi got some recomendation to try out any tweak, i am glad to test it out to make it sound more musical.

Test equipment:


Headphones: Jps Labs Abyss Phi

Source Material: SACD and DSD , DXD , Tidal 16/44.1 - 24/48 tracks.

Streamer: dCS Network Bridge

Dac’s:
dCS Puccini SACD / DSD DAC and Transport.
Master Word.clock: dCS Puccini U-Clock PUC Ver.2

Chord Hugo 2
Chord Mojo
Chord DAVE/BluII
Ifi iDSD micro Black Lable

( Amps in comparision Ifi Micro iDSD Black Label , Moon 600i V1, Wells Audio Headtrip ,

Power: Isotek Sirius Black Ed.
CAD GC1 Ground control
AudioQuest NRG1000 cables

Other equipment used:

MIT Oracle MA-X Digital Word.Clocking BNC-BNC cables with passive articulation system.

Nordost Valhalla 2 1 meter XLR
Artisan Silver Cabels XLR
Wire World Platinum Eclipse XLR
Harmonix XLR


----------



## ufospls2 (Apr 2, 2018)

Beolab said:


> Got the IFi iCan Pro home for testing and comparison to my reference amp; Moon 600i by SimAudio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow your system really has evolved wonderfully over time. I would love to hear it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Pro iCAN. Out of curiosity, how are you connecting your Abyss Phi to the 600i these days?


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> Wow your system really has evolved wonderfully over time. I would love to hear it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Pro iCAN. Out of curiosity, how are you connecting your Abyss Phi to the 600i these days?



Thanks, yes i have collected a few heavier items during the last two years. 

I am using a DHC Flagella 4x Banana Iridium plugs - a 4 pin XLR Female adapter connected to the speaker taps, and the sound is like listen to a real ultra high end Mono blocks with the Dual mono 600i V2.


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 5, 2018)

@Beolab, one thing you could try to improve the sound of the iCan Pro (especially since you like the tube setting) is to change out the tubes for a better pair. The standard tubes are not the best for showcasing its potential. It's not a very difficult task, if you're comfortable with opening up the chassis and replacing the tubes. I switched to Western Electric 2C51 tubes, and the soundstage improved and the sound was much more linear, but still with a touch of warmth.


----------



## Beolab

I only bout it for testing and reviewing it against a 5 times more expensive amp primarily, to see how it should hold up.

It is pretty linear as it is from scratch,  but it is not so musically involving, that is the problem. It is to straight forward from the ground design, and that is a little strange if you compare it to the AMR 77 Amp that is from the same designers.


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "dcguy73, poste: 14152962, membre: 482877"] [USER = 423849] @Beolab [/ USER], une chose que vous pourriez essayer d'améliorer le son de l'iCan Pro (surtout que vous aimez le réglage du tube) est changer les tubes pour une meilleure paire. Les tubes standards ne sont pas les meilleurs pour mettre en valeur son potentiel. Ce n'est pas une tâche très difficile, si vous êtes à l'aise avec l'ouverture du châssis et le remplacement des tubes. Je suis passé aux tubes Western Electric 2C51, et la scène sonore s'est améliorée et le son était beaucoup plus linéaire, mais toujours avec une touche de chaleur. [/ QUOTE]



dcguy73 said:


> @Beolab, one thing you could try to improve the sound of the iCan Pro (especially since you like the tube setting) is to change out the tubes for a better pair. The standard tubes are not the best for showcasing its potential. It's not a very difficult task, if you're comfortable with opening up the chassis and replacing the tubes. I switched to Western Electric 2C51 tubes, and the soundstage improved and the sound was much more linear, but still with a touch of warmth.


hello, thanks for the advice on the change of tube, I think that ifi pro should be more tolerant on the change of tubes without losing the garentie, with a choice of tubes a more important that it would make them themselves, as long as the reference is the same, there is only the sonnor color that could change,


----------



## Currawong

dcguy73 said:


> @Beolab, one thing you could try to improve the sound of the iCan Pro (especially since you like the tube setting) is to change out the tubes for a better pair. The standard tubes are not the best for showcasing its potential. It's not a very difficult task, if you're comfortable with opening up the chassis and replacing the tubes. I switched to Western Electric 2C51 tubes, and the soundstage improved and the sound was much more linear, but still with a touch of warmth.



Don't you have to use adaptors for those?  I have a pair and they are an amazing tube indeed.


----------



## dcguy73

Currawong said:


> Don't you have to use adaptors for those?  I have a pair and they are an amazing tube indeed.



Nope, no adapter needed.


----------



## Skooks

Those WE tubes kick the Pro iCan up a notch... fantastic sounding amp with the tube upgrade!
And, flexibility is a strong suit for the Pro iCan... tweak it to please your taste.
Today I upgraded my DAC... I went from the PS Audio DirectStream Junior to its big brother... the full blown DirectStream. I’m a long way from having it and new XLR interconnects broken in... but this combo has already kicked the Pro iCan into another level. Great sound!!


----------



## ufospls2

The Pro iCAN is definitely a great amp, that sounds larger than its diminutive size might suggest. I ended up sticking with my Master 9 at the end of the day as I felt it drove the Susvara with a bit more authority, but I do miss what I felt were better technicalities from the Pro iCAN.


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "ufospls2, post: 14156066, membre: 413115"] Le Pro iCAN est définitivement un ampli génial, qui sonne plus grand que sa petite taille ne le laisse supposer. Je me suis retrouvé avec mon Master 9 à la fin de la journée car je sentais que ça conduisait le Susvara avec un peu plus d'autorité, mais je ne vois pas ce que je pensais être de meilleures techniques du Pro iCAN. [/ QUOTE]



ufospls2 said:


> The Pro iCAN is definitely a great amp, that sounds larger than its diminutive size might suggest. I ended up sticking with my Master 9 at the end of the day as I felt it drove the Susvara with a bit more authority, but I do miss what I felt were better technicalities from the Pro iCAN.


hello, is it possible to tell us a little more and the Susvara, and please the Susvara has been compared to which helmet, thank you,


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 6, 2018)

Duplicate post


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 6, 2018)

@tonyo442, try this thread for more info: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/

The Susvara is a $6000 pair of headphones.


----------



## Katie88

tonyo442 said:


> [QUOTE = "ufospls2, post: 14156066, membre: 413115"] Le Pro iCAN est définitivement un ampli génial, qui sonne plus grand que sa petite taille ne le laisse supposer. Je me suis retrouvé avec mon Master 9 à la fin de la journée car je sentais que ça conduisait le Susvara avec un peu plus d'autorité, mais je ne vois pas ce que je pensais être de meilleures techniques du Pro iCAN. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> 
> hello, is it possible to tell us a little more and the Susvara, and please the Susvara has been compared to which helmet, thank you,





tonyo442 said:


> [QUOTE = "ufospls2, post: 14156066, membre: 413115"] Le Pro iCAN est définitivement un ampli génial, qui sonne plus grand que sa petite taille ne le laisse supposer. Je me suis retrouvé avec mon Master 9 à la fin de la journée car je sentais que ça conduisait le Susvara avec un peu plus d'autorité, mais je ne vois pas ce que je pensais être de meilleures techniques du Pro iCAN. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> 
> hello, is it possible to tell us a little more and the Susvara, and please the Susvara has been compared to which helmet, thank you,



Perhaps one like this?:


----------



## ufospls2

tonyo442 said:


> [QUOTE = "ufospls2, post: 14156066, membre: 413115"] Le Pro iCAN est définitivement un ampli génial, qui sonne plus grand que sa petite taille ne le laisse supposer. Je me suis retrouvé avec mon Master 9 à la fin de la journée car je sentais que ça conduisait le Susvara avec un peu plus d'autorité, mais je ne vois pas ce que je pensais être de meilleures techniques du Pro iCAN. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> 
> hello, is it possible to tell us a little more and the Susvara, and please the Susvara has been compared to which helmet, thank you,



I've posted quite a bit about my experiences with the Susvara in the Susvara thread, which dcguy73 has linked to. They are a wonderful headphone. I hope that helps


----------



## dcguy73

Okay, it's that time again -- time for tube rolling in the iCan Pro! This time I upgraded to Bendix Red Duet tubes (pricey pricey) and WOW! Another huge leap forward in sound, even measuring from the audio upgrade my first tube rolling session (the GE 2C51 tubes) provided. The Bendix tubes are a bit larger than the 2C51 (no adapters needed still) and run warmer. Very detailed from top to bottom with excellent (and controlled) bass (hard to believe you can get that with a tube). More changes to come as they break in, I'm sure.  Pics below.


----------



## tonyo442

thank you for making us enjoy your experience ......


----------



## Skooks

dcguy73 said:


> Okay, it's that time again -- time for tube rolling in the iCan Pro! This time I upgraded to Bendix Red Duet tubes (pricey pricey) and WOW! Another huge leap forward in sound, even measuring from the audio upgrade my first tube rolling session (the GE 2C51 tubes) provided. The Bendix tubes are a bit larger than the 2C51 (no adapters needed still) and run warmer. Very detailed from top to bottom with excellent (and controlled) bass (hard to believe you can get that with a tube). More changes to come as they break in, I'm sure.  Pics below.


Hey dcguy...
Great job! Can you tell us how much "pricey pricey" is? And... where did you get the Red Duets?
Another question... 
Since you have had the circuit board in hand, how hard would it be to detach the tube board and mount it facing upward with the tubes sticking out the top? Do you think it's possible?
Thanks for sharing...


----------



## chaz_flhr

Skooks said:


> Hey dcguy...
> Great job! Can you tell us how much "pricey pricey" is? And... where did you get the Red Duets?
> Another question...
> Since you have had the circuit board in hand, how hard would it be to detach the tube board and mount it facing upward with the tubes sticking out the top? Do you think it's possible?
> Thanks for sharing...



I found them for 250.00 each online


----------



## chaz_flhr

dcguy73 said:


> Okay, it's that time again -- time for tube rolling in the iCan Pro! This time I upgraded to Bendix Red Duet tubes (pricey pricey) and WOW! Another huge leap forward in sound, even measuring from the audio upgrade my first tube rolling session (the GE 2C51 tubes) provided. The Bendix tubes are a bit larger than the 2C51 (no adapters needed still) and run warmer. Very detailed from top to bottom with excellent (and controlled) bass (hard to believe you can get that with a tube). More changes to come as they break in, I'm sure.  Pics below.


----------



## chaz_flhr

Looking forward to updates and future upgrades.


----------



## tonyo442

Je suis totalement d'accord que les tubes sont à l'extérieur, les tubes horizontalement et le dégagement de température des tubes, j'ai un doute sur la durée de vie des composants, notamment sur les changements de référence des tubes, .....


----------



## bflat

Skooks said:


> Hey dcguy...
> Great job! Can you tell us how much "pricey pricey" is? And... where did you get the Red Duets?
> Another question...
> Since you have had the circuit board in hand, how hard would it be to detach the tube board and mount it facing upward with the tubes sticking out the top? Do you think it's possible?
> Thanks for sharing...



Possible, but not advisable because one would need to:

Modify the solid aluminum case because stock is not tall enough to support tubes in an upright position. Even stock tubes. If you are thinking, just go sans case, that will be difficult too because the case is one solid piece extruded frame and not a clamshell where one could just unscrew the top. You would need to add something to the bottom of the PCB to keep the pins from shorting and additional braces to the front and rear ports since the case is the primary stabilizing structure keeping the sockets from ripping out as you insert/remove cables.
Hand wire jumpers from the tube socket board to the amp motherboard. This is the easiest part but your choice of wire and wire jacket are critical as the wire will get extremely hot and likely melt most plastic jackets thereby creating a real fire hazard.
Add stabilizing legs under the tube socket board so the socket pins don't touch any electronics underneath. Most likely attached to motherboard with strong glue so that the tube socket board doesn't rip out when swapping tubes. Irreversible mod.
And the obvious - immediate loss of warranty. In fact I'm not sure if iFi won't void warranty if we swap tubes.
I thought about this too, but the above realization killed that idea pretty quickly LOL.


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 13, 2018)

Skooks said:


> Hey dcguy...
> Great job! Can you tell us how much "pricey pricey" is? And... where did you get the Red Duets?
> Another question...
> Since you have had the circuit board in hand, how hard would it be to detach the tube board and mount it facing upward with the tubes sticking out the top? Do you think it's possible?
> Thanks for sharing...





bflat said:


> Possible, but not advisable because one would need to:
> 
> Modify the solid aluminum case because stock is not tall enough to support tubes in an upright position. Even stock tubes. If you are thinking, just go sans case, that will be difficult too because the case is one solid piece extruded frame and not a clamshell where one could just unscrew the top. You would need to add something to the bottom of the PCB to keep the pins from shorting and additional braces to the front and rear ports since the case is the primary stabilizing structure keeping the sockets from ripping out as you insert/remove cables.
> Hand wire jumpers from the tube socket board to the amp motherboard. This is the easiest part but your choice of wire and wire jacket are critical as the wire will get extremely hot and likely melt most plastic jackets thereby creating a real fire hazard.
> ...



Thanks, @bflat! That's a great explanation of why it's probably not doable to mount the tubes vertically.

BTW, the Red Duet tubes were $300 for a (slightly used) pair from Tim @ Kitsune Hifi. There were actually a few for sale on this forum recently, but I had already purchased my set from Tim when the sale popped up on the forum. I'm not sure you could convince Tim to part with his remaining Red Duets (they're NOS and unopened)...but he does have (whisper whisper) some other tube upgrades that he's willing to part with. Ask him!

You know, I feel bad that some iCan Pros end up on the sale block on Head-Fi, sometimes because people don't appreciate them enough. Like many others, I lust after more expensive "premium" amps that people rave about, but I've come to respect this amp as a pretty good product for the money. It is very versatile and has a lot of potential (just like any other amp with tubes) to sound better and/or different if you are willing to get your hands dirty and experiment.


----------



## Skooks

dcguy73 said:


> Thanks, @bflat! That's a great explanation of why it's probably not doable to mount the tubes vertically.
> 
> BTW, the Red Duet tubes were $300 for a (slightly used) pair from Tim @ Kitsune Hifi. There were actually a few for sale on this forum recently, but I had already purchased my set from Tim when the sale popped up on the forum. I'm not sure you could convince Tim to part with his remaining Red Duets (they're NOS and unopened)...but he does have (whisper whisper) some other tube upgrades that he's willing to part with. Ask him!
> 
> You know, I feel bad that some iCan Pros end up on the sale block on Head-Fi, sometimes because people don't appreciate them enough. Like many others, I lust after more expensive "premium" amps that people rave about, but I've come to respect this amp as a pretty good product for the money. It is very versatile and has a lot of potential (just like any other amp with tubes) to sound better and/or different if you are willing to get your hands dirty and experiment.



I agree... it is a very versatile amp and performs very well. I just don't understand the designer hiding the tubes. They could have done like Schiit and stuck those tubes thru 2 holes in the top. That would have solved all the problems with getting to those Roman candles and doing some tube rolling. Also, when the stock tubes wear out, how do they expect us to replace them? I had to send my Pro iCan to Kitsune to put the new GE tubes in. That's a very expensive way to tube roll. Oh, well... thanks for your input.


----------



## tonyo442

hello, be disappointed by the iFI pro ican, ....... difficult to hear, but replace the iFI pro by what by which headphone amp, are all the parameters are respected, quality mains cables or modulations, quality of the current, quality of the wall sockets, where is put the material, quality of the supports, before analizing a material there is so much parameter to take into account, it is not enough to buy an amp to put it any or and connect it anyhow and think that the amp will give the best of itself, that's why I do not understand how one can be disappointed by the iFIpro, maybe it is to highlight defects on other elements, and especially what amp will replace it and at what price,
Personally I like and I prefer the iFI pro ican in tuning transistor, it has a great medium, but if I seek more heat a low medium more engaging better deffini serious with more impacts and definitions I plug the amp Moon 430HA headphones and I'm thrilled,
it is necessary to go to the evidence that on any helmet they have better current they run, and of course do not forget to accompany the headphones and headphone amp with a dac out of the current, 3 or 4 or 5 volts, I was able to test the LCD4 plugged on dac, without headphone amps and I was always disappointed, with a grave that was not held, a grave that floated, which lacked life and of expression, and of character,


----------



## ufospls2

dcguy73 said:


> Thanks, @bflat! That's a great explanation of why it's probably not doable to mount the tubes vertically.
> 
> BTW, the Red Duet tubes were $300 for a (slightly used) pair from Tim @ Kitsune Hifi. There were actually a few for sale on this forum recently, but I had already purchased my set from Tim when the sale popped up on the forum. I'm not sure you could convince Tim to part with his remaining Red Duets (they're NOS and unopened)...but he does have (whisper whisper) some other tube upgrades that he's willing to part with. Ask him!
> 
> You know, I feel bad that some iCan Pros end up on the sale block on Head-Fi, sometimes because people don't appreciate them enough. Like many others, I lust after more expensive "premium" amps that people rave about, but I've come to respect this amp as a pretty good product for the money. It is very versatile and has a lot of potential (just like any other amp with tubes) to sound better and/or different if you are willing to get your hands dirty and experiment.



The Pro iCAN is an amazing amp IMO, especially for the Money. I'd love to hear it with the tubes you have now. I'd be scared about losing my warranty though, but after the warranty period is up, tube rolling would be awesome. I am happy with my Master 9, but do miss the Pro iCAN in my set up.


----------



## iFi audio

Also, at Axpona we showcased our Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN at work together. Thanks to everyone who took time to listen to it.


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, you might wanna check out our *official xDSD tour* page. It just started and yes, there are prizes!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xdsd-tour-the-official-thread.877669/


----------



## tekkster

I'm sure it's been said a bunch of times on this thread.  But since I want to say it, and no one else would understand...

The HD 800 and T1 on this amazing amp (source iMac/Swinsian/Schiit Wyrd/H2/ifi pro ican/[headphone]) is stunning.

The biggest surprise for me, though, was the Etymotic ER-4P (still one of my all time favorite IEMs).
I did not know it had any bass capabilities....LOL


----------



## bflat

Skooks said:


> I agree... it is a very versatile amp and performs very well. I just don't understand the designer hiding the tubes. They could have done like Schiit and stuck those tubes thru 2 holes in the top. That would have solved all the problems with getting to those Roman candles and doing some tube rolling. Also, when the stock tubes wear out, how do they expect us to replace them? I had to send my Pro iCan to Kitsune to put the new GE tubes in. That's a very expensive way to tube roll. Oh, well... thanks for your input.



Alternate View - there are not many tubes that are considered better than the stock GE ones. It is pretty easy to open the chassis (not confirming that I have) and swap the tubes - less than 5 min. Once you try 1-2 different tubes you are likely going to stick to the one you like for a long time. Under normal operating conditions, a NOS pair should last around 5000 hours. I purchased a backup pair and don't expect I will be alive long enough to wear both sets out.

The amps that are truly designed to roll tubes on a frequent basis use much more pervasive tubes like 12AU7 or 6922. On the positive side, you can spend thousands on the elusive holy grail tubes with either one of those types LOL. These are so ridiculously rolled that folks even claim specific years or date codes are the best. I suspect folks who continue to do this find just as much joy in finding the elusive tubes as much as listening to them.


----------



## Skooks

bflat said:


> Alternate View - there are not many tubes that are considered better than the stock GE ones. It is pretty easy to open the chassis (not confirming that I have) and swap the tubes - less than 5 min. Once you try 1-2 different tubes you are likely going to stick to the one you like for a long time. Under normal operating conditions, a NOS pair should last around 5000 hours. I purchased a backup pair and don't expect I will be alive long enough to wear both sets out.
> 
> The amps that are truly designed to roll tubes on a frequent basis use much more pervasive tubes like 12AU7 or 6922. On the positive side, you can spend thousands on the elusive holy grail tubes with either one of those types LOL. These are so ridiculously rolled that folks even claim specific years or date codes are the best. I suspect folks who continue to do this find just as much joy in finding the elusive tubes as much as listening to them.


I basically agree with your analogy on chasing tubes... it gets to be the Easter egg hunt for audiophiles. And, you can throw in... chasing amps and DACs and etc... it never stops... there's always another one that can beat the present one. Doesn't leave much time for enjoying the music.


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 24, 2018)

Skooks said:


> I basically agree with your analogy on chasing tubes... it gets to be the Easter egg hunt for audiophiles. And, you can throw in... chasing amps and DACs and etc... it never stops... there's always another one that can beat the present one. Doesn't leave much time for enjoying the music.



Then again, sometimes you're happy enough with the tubes you've got to stick with them for a while... 

Had a listening session with my upgraded iCan Pro tonight with a friend who owns a Chord Dave amp/DAC. He was interested in comparing using his Dave as an amp and DAC versus using the Dave as a DAC with the iCan Pro as an amp.. For everything but classical/classic jazz, he preferred the sound of the iCan Pro (in hybrid tube mode) as amp over his Dave. He said it sounded more dynamic and organic. The reason he preferred the Dave over the iCan Pro for classical/classic jazz is that he thought the Dave was more transparent.

From my personal listening, I thought the sound through the Dave was smoother and more even-handed. Listening through the iCan Pro made the sound more "fun" and alive. Plus, with the bass boost at setting number 1, the iCan Pro had more low-end impact than the Dave.

We used the Focal Utopia and the HE1000v2 as headphones. Testing was a bit difficult because we could only A/B the two amps using single-ended headphone jacks (the Dave does not have a balanced headphone jack).The iCan Pro sounded noticeably better when using its balanced jack, but then A/B was impossible. Also, the iCan Pro lost its edge when running in standard solid state mode as opposed to hybrid tube mode.


----------



## tekkster

dcguy73 said:


> Then again, sometimes you're happy enough with the tubes you've got to stick with them for a while...
> 
> Had a listening session with my upgraded iCan Pro tonight with a friend who owns a Chord Dave amp/DAC. He was interested in comparing using his Dave as an amp and DAC versus using the Dave as a DAC with the iCan Pro as an amp.. For everything but classical music (and a few jazz albums), he preferred the sound of the iCan Pro (in hybrid tube mode) as amp over his Dave. He said it sounded more dynamic and organic. The reason he preferred the Dave over the iCan Pro for classical is that he thought the Dave was a little more transparent.



That's really interesting!  I don't have the funds to get my hands on a Dave, but comparing the H2 to the iCan Pro, I find that I prefer the iCan Pro paired with my old HD800 for large orchestral classical pieces.  What headphones was he using that made him prefer the Dave for classical?  I wonder if they're affordable enough that I could get those and try them with my H2 just to see if I prefer that setup (And yes, I know that the Dave and H2 are worlds apart, I'm just curious)


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 24, 2018)

tekkster said:


> That's really interesting!  I don't have the funds to get my hands on a Dave, but comparing the H2 to the iCan Pro, I find that I prefer the iCan Pro paired with my old HD800 for large orchestral classical pieces.  What headphones was he using that made him prefer the Dave for classical?  I wonder if they're affordable enough that I could get those and try them with my H2 just to see if I prefer that setup (And yes, I know that the Dave and H2 are worlds apart, I'm just curious)



I updated my post with more info, including which headphones we used. Honestly, I don't think he listened to any large-scale orchestral pieces during our session, so maybe that usage case would have had a different outcome.


----------



## Skooks

dcguy73 said:


> Then again, sometimes you're happy enough with the tubes you've got to stick with them for a while...
> 
> Had a listening session with my upgraded iCan Pro tonight with a friend who owns a Chord Dave amp/DAC. He was interested in comparing using his Dave as an amp and DAC versus using the Dave as a DAC with the iCan Pro as an amp.. For everything but classical/classic jazz, he preferred the sound of the iCan Pro (in hybrid tube mode) as amp over his Dave. He said it sounded more dynamic and organic. The reason he preferred the Dave over the iCan Pro for classical/classic jazz is that he thought the Dave was more transparent.
> 
> ...



To judge the two equally, you must run both at their optimum... don't you think? The iCan Pro's optimum is with balanced output and with tubes in one of its two positions. Would you say to make it even you would not use the tubes in the Pro since the Dave has no tubes? I don't think so. Just my thoughts.


----------



## Skooks

dcguy73 said:


> I updated my post with more info, including which headphones we used. Honestly, I don't think he listened to any large-scale orchestral pieces during our session, so maybe that usage case would have had a different outcome.


Which of the two headphones did you like best with the iCan Pro?


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Hi guys

Has anyone experience with Adi2 pro REM?
My friend wants to buy it ,i thinking I can pro has advantage in SQ for HD800S but when his searching and asking some people ,They told him Adi2 pro better in SQ 

Please guide me thanks 
Regards Mori


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Skooks said:


> Which of the two headphones did you like best with the iCan Pro?


Mybe HD800S


----------



## dcguy73

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Has anyone experience with Adi2 pro REM?
> My friend wants to buy it ,i thinking I can pro has advantage in SQ for HD800S but when his searching and asking some people ,They told him Adi2 pro better in SQ
> ...



I own both the iCan Pro and the RME ADI-2 Pro. However, I do not own the HD800S.

The ADI-2 Pro is drier than the iCan, but also more technically proficient with a little more detail. It also has many different features to adjust the sound.
The iCan has a more well-rounded and fleshed-out sound than the ADI-2 Pro, especially in tube hybrid mode.


----------



## Slim1970

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Mybe HD800S


+1 on the Pro iCan and HD800S combo. I've never heard the HD800S's sound so good.


----------



## Skooks

Does anyone out there own both the iCan Pro and the Mjolnir 2. With both being balanced... and both using 2 tubes... and both capable of solid state only... it would be good to compare them with the same DAC. Of course, cables also matter, but I would like to know how they compare. Several years ago I had the first Mjo for awhile, but too long even to venture a credible guess. And, I'm sure those Schiit boys have upped their game with the Mjo 2.


----------



## Skooks

Slim1970 said:


> +1 on the Pro iCan and HD800S combo. I've never heard the HD800S's sound so good.


What DAC do you use with this combo?


----------



## tekkster

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Has anyone experience with Adi2 pro REM?
> My friend wants to buy it ,i thinking I can pro has advantage in SQ for HD800S but when his searching and asking some people ,They told him Adi2 pro better in SQ
> ...



Oh wow, I just read some reviews on the REM Adi2 Pro.  Cool features.  Not as much power as the iCan Pro, but more equalizer controls, which is kind of nifty.  I find that software equalizer in Swinsian really reduces audio quality through the hw dac, so I like the idea of doing equalizer after digital data gets to the H2, either at the DAC stage or the AMP stage.  It's very cool that the REM Adi2 Pro has it.  2W out of unbalanced is about the same as H2, so far far below iCan Pro's 14W output.  Also, similarly to the H2, there's no balanced xlr output.  Still very cool.

Also, REM Adi2 Pro is DAC & AMP.  iCan Pro is AMP only, so maybe in a way, more cost effective.

I have been thinking of getting a Schiit Loki, and putting it between the H2 and iCan Pro to get some equalizer adjustment after the DAC but before the AMP, but, I'm not sure.  It's not expensive at $149.

If your friend doesn't need a DAC, and doesn't need balanced, that is also an option:

DAC -> Loki -> iCan Pro.  The iCan Pro and Loki costs less than the Adi2 Pro.

Just a random thought.


----------



## Slim1970

Skooks said:


> What DAC do you use with this combo?


I'm currently using the Hugo 2. Before I got the Hugo 2 I was using the Mojo with great results as well.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 3, 2018)

how many db does bass boost add  at the different settings, i read the manual but there is no mention bout how many db


----------



## ZenErik

Just purchased one of these yesterday. Should have it within a week, I assume. 

I plan on reading through this thread and maybe I’ll find my answer there, but I’m wondering what the recommended tubes are for this amp if I bother tube rolling. Impressions on said tubes compared to stock are also appreciated. Thanks!



Sound Eq said:


> how many db does bass boost add  at the different settings, i read the manual but there is no mention bout how many db



I believe iFi’s website says 12dB.


----------



## Katie88

ZenErik said:


> Just purchased one of these yesterday. Should have it within a week, I assume.
> 
> I plan on reading through this thread and maybe I’ll find my answer there, but I’m wondering what the recommended tubes are for this amp if I bother tube rolling. Impressions on said tubes compared to stock are also appreciated. Thanks!
> 
> ...



Check out dcguy73 ‘s recent posts. He’s done some tube rolling with at least 2 alternatives.


----------



## ZenErik

Katie88 said:


> Check out dcguy73 ‘s recent posts. He’s done some tube rolling with at least 2 alternatives.


thanks. I did read through those on the way to work, but the Bendix are a lot more than I’m looking to put into tubes currently. I think I'll more than likely stick with the stock tube which appears to have a very long lifespan and be well liked. Might purchase 1 backup pair to have on hand just in case!

I'm really looking forward to this amp. I expect the solid state mode will be pretty similar to my IHA-6, but I didn't buy the Pro iCan to use in full solid state mode. Definitely planning on making use of the tube modes and trying out the other features as well. I feel the IHA-6 is a very nice amp but just slightly bright for my tastes. Hopefully the Pro iCan can tip things just a tad in the other direction. That's my goal. Not looking for a major change but a change that will give me the synergy I've been looking for to complete my chain.


----------



## ZenErik

Got my Pro iCan in today. So far impressions are positive. I need to spend more time with the amp before writing anything more detailed. It seems to be just a little warmer than the IHA-6. Exactly what I wanted.

The Xbass sounds good at off and 10hz. 20hz gets to be a bit much and 40hz is just a great way to make most anything sound awful.

The 3D feature is neat. I prefer it off for the most part. It's not bad at all at 30/+ but the two higher settings add a lot of brightness that I am not looking for.

I've been trying to compare solid state vs tube vs tube+ for a while. The differences are minimal to my ears. The Xbass and 3D settings make a much more noticeable impact than the solid state vs hybrid modes. If anything I would say the tube modes make things sound very very slightly more rich, but it borders on placebo. It is barely there.

The Pro iCan seems to be dead silent with my Auteur. I can hear the noise floor of the IHA-6 on both low and high gain, but on all 3 gain settings on the Pro iCan it is very quiet.


----------



## Skooks

You will totally enjoy the Pro iCan... congratulations on making the plunge. And, you are right, after much playing with the different settings, you will probably settle in on maybe one click up on each. I have found that to be what sounds good to my ears. When you have listened for quite awhile, you might want to upgrade the tubes. I did... and I really enjoy what the new tubes bring to the Pro iCan... but, here again it want be earth shattering... it will be a subtle upgrade to its abilities. Enjoy!


----------



## ZenErik

Skooks said:


> You will totally enjoy the Pro iCan... congratulations on making the plunge. And, you are right, after much playing with the different settings, you will probably settle in on maybe one click up on each. I have found that to be what sounds good to my ears. When you have listened for quite awhile, you might want to upgrade the tubes. I did... and I really enjoy what the new tubes bring to the Pro iCan... but, here again it want be earth shattering... it will be a subtle upgrade to its abilities. Enjoy!


I will consider swapping the tubes but likely only to notably warmer tubes. I'm curious if that will provide better contrast with the Pro iCan. Will need to do some research to see what might be suitable.

The amp is very nice looking in person. From the picture on iFi's website it doesn't look that attractive to me. The chassis looks much better in person.


----------



## Rhinomyte76

ZenErik said:


> I will consider swapping the tubes but likely only to notably warmer tubes. I'm curious if that will provide better contrast with the Pro iCan. Will need to do some research to see what might be suitable.
> 
> The amp is very nice looking in person. From the picture on iFi's website it doesn't look that attractive to me. The chassis looks much better in person.



Anyone have experience with this and the Chord qutest yet?


----------



## Slim1970

Rhinomyte76 said:


> Anyone have experience with this and the Chord qutest yet?


I feed my Pro iCan with the Hugo 2 and I love the pairing. Should be similar sounding to the Qutest and it should work very well with the Pro iCan.


----------



## Skooks

One of these days I might just have to try the Hugo 2... but, for now I am having a blast with the PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC with the Pro iCan. It's the best I've ever had in a headphone system... with the Audeze LCD-3F. It takes about 300 or more hours to get the DirectStream broken in... but, when it comes around, it is awesome!


----------



## tekkster

Slim1970 said:


> I feed my Pro iCan with the Hugo 2 and I love the pairing. Should be similar sounding to the Qutest and it should work very well with the Pro iCan.



Same setup for my hd800.  Ideal for classical orchestral pieces.  Though i connect the utopia direct to the h2 which i prefer for smaller acoustical pieces.


----------



## tekkster

Skooks said:


> One of these days I might just have to try the Hugo 2... but, for now I am having a blast with the PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC with the Pro iCan. It's the best I've ever had in a headphone system... with the Audeze LCD-3F. It takes about 300 or more hours to get the DirectStream broken in... but, when it comes around, it is awesome!



Nice.  I'm jealous.  That DAC has killer reviews.  A little pricey for me.

I was thinking about getting the RME ADI-2 DAC or maybe the iFi Audio Pro iDSD for the Pro iCan, as those two are more affordable.  Would free up my h2 to be more mobile.


----------



## tonyo442 (May 10, 2018)

Hello,
I have also done tests, on a big amp, rather than on the ifi pro, you have the power reserve, more dynamics at the expense of transparency, micro information and some information disappear, there will be the amp + adapter + additional module cable, and after my tests I went back to the pro ifi ican, every solder, every additional cable of the electronic components of the information disappear,
after modifying an element of my system I redo a direct comparison, ie it is necessary to connect my LCD 4 audeze on my T + A dac8, all medium and high frequencies are beautiful and a great wealth of information micro detailed but the low frequencies are very limited, so obligation to have an amp but hey, maybe I'm wrong
Tony


----------



## dcguy73

ZenErik said:


> I will consider swapping the tubes but likely only to notably warmer tubes. I'm curious if that will provide better contrast with the Pro iCan. Will need to do some research to see what might be suitable.
> 
> The amp is very nice looking in person. From the picture on iFi's website it doesn't look that attractive to me. The chassis looks much better in person.



I guess, based on your sale thread, you gave up on the iCan pretty quickly.


----------



## Skooks

You got to put some real good music hours on the Pro iCan to get it to sound like it is capable of sounding. It will be hard to beat when it settles in. And, given that you can tweak that sound with its flexibility, it's the best bang for your bucks that can be had.


----------



## bildar

I just got a mimby to go with my iCan pro I have had for a few weeks. I love the combo. anyone else running schiit with their iCan?


----------



## ZenErik

dcguy73 said:


> I guess, based on your sale thread, you gave up on the iCan pretty quickly.


That is correct! It's still a great amp that'll hopefully go to a good home sooner than later. After getting the RME ADI-2 DAC I found that I am happy enough with the all in one setup for solid state. And I hope to add in a tube amp later.


----------



## tekkster

ZenErik said:


> That is correct! It's still a great amp that'll hopefully go to a good home sooner than later. After getting the RME ADI-2 DAC I found that I am happy enough with the all in one setup for solid state. And I hope to add in a tube amp later.



Interesting!  I was thinking of getting the rme adi-2 dac as the dac for the ifi audio pro ican, to drive the t1 headphones as those headphones seem to require a lot of power to sound good.  Maybe once i get the tme adi-2 dac, i won’t need the ifi pro ican.  I was originally thinking of getting the more expensive ifi pro idsd, but at $2400, it’s a tad pricey.


----------



## ZenErik (May 13, 2018)

tekkster said:


> Interesting!  I was thinking of getting the rme adi-2 dac as the dac for the ifi audio pro ican, to drive the t1 headphones as those headphones seem to require a lot of power to sound good.  Maybe once i get the tme adi-2 dac, i won’t need the ifi pro ican.  I was originally thinking of getting the more expensive ifi pro idsd, but at $2400, it’s a tad pricey.


Probably depends partly on the headphones and also on how discerning your hearing is. The Pro iCan is also much more powerful so I’m sure the advantages show on some headphones.

I find the differences between the Pro iCan and ADI-2 DAC minimal on the Auteur. The HD650 I didn’t bother comparing directly as I only use it on the rare occasion I feel like listening via headphones in bed. When Xbass and 3D are used then obviously there is some difference but then again the RME has EQ and crossfeed options that may provide a similar effect.

The Pro iDSD does look really nice. I was tempted as well, but I find that perhaps my ears aren’t discerning as others. I’m not majorly bothered by the change from Onyx to ADI-2 DAC. I think the Onyx might sound a little more natural but the differences are pretty minor to me.

Either way I do feel the Pro iCan is great amp. While some people note the poor value at $1800 I think given that you can get one lightly used for $1000-1100 it’s actually a pretty good value. Loaded with options and power. Versatile. Very compact and aesthetically pleasing. Dead silent.


----------



## Malcolm Riverside

tekkster said:


> Interesting!  I was thinking of getting the rme adi-2 dac as the dac for the ifi audio pro ican, to drive the t1 headphones as those headphones seem to require a lot of power to sound good.  Maybe once i get the tme adi-2 dac, i won’t need the ifi pro ican.  I was originally thinking of getting the more expensive ifi pro idsd, but at $2400, it’s a tad pricey.


I have an adi-2 dac set up with my ican pro and it’s a great combination, but I dare say the ican is a bit of overkill if you only intend to use it with one pair of cans. Especially with all the options and features on the adi-2 you may be better off pairing it with the Beyerdynamic A20 for example and saving yourself hundreds of bucks.


----------



## tekkster (May 13, 2018)

Malcolm Riverside said:


> I have an adi-2 dac set up with my ican pro and it’s a great combination, but I dare say the ican is a bit of overkill if you only intend to use it with one pair of cans. Especially with all the options and features on the adi-2 you may be better off pairing it with the Beyerdynamic A20 for example and saving yourself hundreds of bucks.




Excellent point. 

I generally use the the iCan Pro with the HD800 (xlr 4-pin) and the T1 (6.3mm).  The HD800 runs really with it.  I also use it with my TR80/250 once in a while mostly to double check some instruments in some tracks.  It's fun to use it with the kse1200 that I just received a few days ago too.  I like the iFi iCan Pro.  Not sure I'd be willing to give it up, though, maybe.  All these headphones might be driven well by the ADI-2 alone, so who knows.  The one I'm really curious about is the hd820 which I'm hoping to get in maybe two months or so.  I'd have to get a custom cable for it since the Pro iCan and ADI-2 don't have 4.4mm jacks.  Right now, I run the H2 as the dac for the iCan Pro, but really want to move the H2 into a mobile solution permanently, without having to plug and unplug connections every time I travel, so hoping to get something else to drive the iCan.  Was initially thinking of the iFi Micro iDSD BL, but the feature flexibility of the RME ADI-2 DAC is pretty interesting.  And, like I said  earlier, the iFi Pro iDSD is more than double the price of the ADI-2, so not really wanting to go that route.


----------



## tonyo442 (May 14, 2018)

hello, I'm still looking for a more adequate power box for ifi pro ican, we may know, thank you
tony


----------



## Skooks

I just discovered something that blows my mind! Ever since getting the Pro iCan... about 3 or 4 months ago, I have never tried driving my LCD-3F's on the highest gain setting... I have gone back and forth on the lowest and middle settings. This evening, for the first time, I flipped the switch up to the highest setting. And, man alive... my sound really came alive! It was no slouch on the lowest setting, where I played it most of the time... and occasionally I tried the middle gain setting. Just this evening, I decided why not try the highest setting... so I did. Now, I won't go back after hearing this highest gain setting. I hear great focus, great transparency, and even more black background. Have you tried it with your phones? And, especially anyone using the LCD-3F's, I would like to hear from you.

Just so you know, besides the good Pro iCan, I have my music program Amarra 4 Plus on my 2016 MacBook Pro. My music files are stored on an external solid state drive. I use a PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC. I'm really pleased with the sound from this system. Mighty fine!


----------



## gto88

Skooks said:


> I just discovered something that blows my mind! Ever since getting the Pro iCan... about 3 or 4 months ago, I have never tried driving my LCD-3F's on the highest gain setting... I have gone back and forth on the lowest and middle settings. This evening, for the first time, I flipped the switch up to the highest setting. And, man alive... my sound really came alive! It was no slouch on the lowest setting, where I played it most of the time... and occasionally I tried the middle gain setting. Just this evening, I decided why not try the highest setting... so I did. Now, I won't go back after hearing this highest gain setting. I hear great focus, great transparency, and even more black background. Have you tried it with your phones? And, especially anyone using the LCD-3F's, I would like to hear from you.
> 
> Just so you know, besides the good Pro iCan, I have my music program Amarra 4 Plus on my 2016 MacBook Pro. My music files are stored on an external solid state drive. I use a PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC. I'm really pleased with the sound from this system. Mighty fine!


I had similar experience with HEK V2, I used to leave ican pro in low gain thinking it has better SQ, but I had tried middle gain setting, and it sounds much better, so I am using middle gain setting all the time.
Now with your impression about high gain, I will definitely try it for both hek and lcd-3f.


----------



## dcguy73 (May 18, 2018)

Skooks said:


> I just discovered something that blows my mind! Ever since getting the Pro iCan... about 3 or 4 months ago, I have never tried driving my LCD-3F's on the highest gain setting... I have gone back and forth on the lowest and middle settings. This evening, for the first time, I flipped the switch up to the highest setting. And, man alive... my sound really came alive! It was no slouch on the lowest setting, where I played it most of the time... and occasionally I tried the middle gain setting. Just this evening, I decided why not try the highest setting... so I did. Now, I won't go back after hearing this highest gain setting. I hear great focus, great transparency, and even more black background. Have you tried it with your phones? And, especially anyone using the LCD-3F's, I would like to hear from you.
> 
> Just so you know, besides the good Pro iCan, I have my music program Amarra 4 Plus on my 2016 MacBook Pro. My music files are stored on an external solid state drive. I use a PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC. I'm really pleased with the sound from this system. Mighty fine!



I'm not sure the same thing applies to the HEKv2 as it does to the LCD-3Fs, @Skooks. I've tried high gain on the iCan Pro before, but didn't really care for it. After I read your post, I tried switching between medium and high gain on a few different albums. The one with the most palpable differences was U2's The Joshua Tree, specifically U2's "Where the Streets Have no Name." In medium gain at about ten o'clock, Bono's voice and Edge's ringing guitar occupy a shared space at a similar volume, a bit laid-back, neither really standing out from the other. When I switched to high gain at maybe eight or nine o'clock, I could physically _feel_ each cadence of the guitar distinctly, one after another, and they occupied a separate space from Bono's voice. That part was great!  But the overall sound was very in-your-face, and there was also a bit of hardness that crept into the sound that made me clench my jaw, as I always do when that happens.

I can see how a harder-to-drive headphone like your LCD-3Fs might benefit from it, but I think that for the HEKv2s, high gain is a little too much. If only there was a level of gain between medium and high -- that would be perfect.

EDIT: I was using an older tube single-ended CD player with the iCan Pro with an OCC copper headphone cable when I did this test. Not my usual setup of streaming music through the Holo Audio Spirng DAC to the iCan Pro with a silver headphone cable.


----------



## tekkster

I know the t1 isn’t talked about much these days, but i use high gain on the pro ican with the t1 exclusively.  Love the sound with this combo.  For the hd800 i use medium gain.


----------



## Starcruncher (May 18, 2018)

Skooks said:


> I just discovered something that blows my mind! Ever since getting the Pro iCan... about 3 or 4 months ago, I have never tried driving my LCD-3F's on the highest gain setting... I have gone back and forth on the lowest and middle settings. This evening, for the first time, I flipped the switch up to the highest setting. And, man alive... my sound really came alive! It was no slouch on the lowest setting, where I played it most of the time... and occasionally I tried the middle gain setting. Just this evening, I decided why not try the highest setting... so I did. Now, I won't go back after hearing this highest gain setting. I hear great focus, great transparency, and even more black background. Have you tried it with your phones? And, especially anyone using the LCD-3F's, I would like to hear from you.
> 
> Just so you know, besides the good Pro iCan, I have my music program Amarra 4 Plus on my 2016 MacBook Pro. My music files are stored on an external solid state drive. I use a PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC. I'm really pleased with the sound from this system. Mighty fine!



All three headphones that I use(d) with this benefited noticeably from high gain: Grado PS1000, Senn HD600, and Focal Elex, which are technically diverse in their power requirements. I'm postulating that headphones generally perform best with more power, assuming that the power is good and clean. Taste, of course, is relevant on this point.


----------



## frogmeat69

On high gain I can barely turn the volume knob past 9 o'clock, maybe 10 with the LCD-3, or most other headphones I have for that matter, before it gets to be too much to handle, guess I listen on average at lower volumes than a lot of you.


----------



## Currawong

If the gain setting is just changing the output, and not the circuit in any significant way, there will be no difference between them. It's easy to think you're hearing differences between gain settings when in reality you aren't.


----------



## tonyo442

hello, 
new food for the ifi pro ican, or other pro materials from ifi,
Tony 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/alim...egulee-ifi-audio-pro-ican-15v-4a-p-12843.html


----------



## Slim1970 (May 19, 2018)

Currawong said:


> If the gain setting is just changing the output, and not the circuit in any significant way, there will be no difference between them. It's easy to think you're hearing differences between gain settings when in reality you aren't.


When I change the gain settings on my Pro iCan I just get a sense of more power. I don't really hear any changes to it's sonic character. I believe this is what you want from a good amp. When you had the Pro iCan in for a demo did you like it?


----------



## Skooks

dcguy73 said:


> I'm not sure the same thing applies to the HEKv2 as it does to the LCD-3Fs, @Skooks. I've tried high gain on the iCan Pro before, but didn't really care for it. After I read your post, I tried switching between medium and high gain on a few different albums. The one with the most palpable differences was U2's The Joshua Tree, specifically U2's "Where the Streets Have no Name." In medium gain at about ten o'clock, Bono's voice and Edge's ringing guitar occupy a shared space at a similar volume, a bit laid-back, neither really standing out from the other. When I switched to high gain at maybe eight or nine o'clock, I could physically _feel_ each cadence of the guitar distinctly, one after another, and they occupied a separate space from Bono's voice. That part was great!  But the overall sound was very in-your-face, and there was also a bit of hardness that crept into the sound that made me clench my jaw, as I always do when that happens.
> 
> I can see how a harder-to-drive headphone like your LCD-3Fs might benefit from it, but I think that for the HEKv2s, high gain is a little too much. If only there was a level of gain between medium and high -- that would be perfect.
> 
> EDIT: I was using an older tube single-ended CD player with the iCan Pro with an OCC copper headphone cable when I did this test. Not my usual setup of streaming music through the Holo Audio Spirng DAC to the iCan Pro with a silver headphone cable.



It is a system of components that reproduces sound... not just a source or USB cable or DAC or interconnects or amp or headphone cable or headphones. You can swap out any one of the components and you will get a different sound in your ears... some changes might be very subtle, while others might be more prominent. And, some components, such as the DAC or amp might have the flexibility to tweak the sound... such as the Pro iCan Headphone Amp which has several ways to tweak the sound, such as you can choose all solid state or tube hybrid... and with the tube selector, you can choose one or two tubes to tweak the sound... you can choose increments of bass boost... you can choose increments of stage width... and you can choose three increments of gain, from 0db, 9db or 18db. All of these things affect the sound.

Now, let's think about it a bit more... take cables for instance... one cable maker's use of copper can vary greatly with another maker's use of copper... and also the quality of copper varies. But, how the cable maker utilizes copper or silver or a hybrid of the two, makes a difference in the sound. 

Also, think about DACs... one DAC maker can use the same chips as another, but how he uses those chips in his design will make a difference in the sound. And, of course, all who have tube components know very well when you start tube rolling that you can change the sound from slightly to greatly.

Also, you have to know that your choice of music... the same recording... can vary depending on the type of media... CD, SACD or digital files... and digital files of the same recording vary greatly, such as bit depth and etc. When I go to HDtracks to buy musical files, there might be two or three different levels, and higher the level more it costs.

So, you can't judge accurately what one Head-fier says about the sound he hears from his system and portrays it to you in his words unless you have the same components he has in his system. And, even how many hours you have on your components makes a difference... especially if one or more of the components are not "broken in." The sound can change drastically as a component burns in. And even after a component is broken in, you leave it totally off for a period of time, and it has to "warm up" before it will give you its best sound... and, for tubes, you must give them at least an hour after being off to hear what that component can truly sound like... what that system of components can sound like.

I hope this can help us as we read a review of a particular component... everything makes a difference!


----------



## tekkster

One small quirk I notice with the iFi Pro iCan.  

It seems much more sensitive to nearby wireless devices than my H2, Mojo, Jot, or adi-2.

Not a big deal, I just need to make sure to keep the area around the iCan clear.  But it was a little surprising to realize the difference.  The H2 is immune to nearby wireless devices.


----------



## Currawong

Slim1970 said:


> When I change the gain settings on my Pro iCan I just get a sense of more power. I don't really hear any changes to it's sonic character. I believe this is what you want from a good amp. When you had the Pro iCan in for a demo did you like it?



As you would if you turned the volume up an equivalent amount. That is ALL a gain setting change does.


----------



## bildar

hey what does tube+ do on this thing? Skooks mentioned something about using one or two tubes. It tube mode one tube with ss and tube+ is two tubes? I have been hooked on tube+ lately.


----------



## frogmeat69

bildar said:


> hey what does tube+ do on this thing? Skooks mentioned something about using one or two tubes. It tube mode one tube with ss and tube+ is two tubes? I have been hooked on tube+ lately.


Pulled from the iCan Pro manual :
*Solid-State mode:*
is a pure, solid-state circuit and uses J-FETs and is fully-discrete Class A.
*Tube mode:*
2 x NOS GE5670s are engaged with the J-FET circuitry switched out for an all-valve Class A operation.
*Tube+ mode:*
reduces negative feedback to a minimum. As a result, a greater amount of the tubes’ natural
harmonics are produced (Even Order harmonics dominate).


----------



## Beolab (May 22, 2018)

Skooks said:


> I just discovered something that blows my mind! Ever since getting the Pro iCan... about 3 or 4 months ago, I have never tried driving my LCD-3F's on the highest gain setting... I have gone back and forth on the lowest and middle settings. This evening, for the first time, I flipped the switch up to the highest setting. And, man alive... my sound really came alive! It was no slouch on the lowest setting, where I played it most of the time... and occasionally I tried the middle gain setting. Just this evening, I decided why not try the highest setting... so I did. Now, I won't go back after hearing this highest gain setting. I hear great focus, great transparency, and even more black background. Have you tried it with your phones? And, especially anyone using the LCD-3F's, I would like to hear from you.
> 
> Just so you know, besides the good Pro iCan, I have my music program Amarra 4 Plus on my 2016 MacBook Pro. My music files are stored on an external solid state drive. I use a PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC. I'm really pleased with the sound from this system. Mighty fine!



 iFi spec the best result is to use the middle or low gain setting and turn up the volume to 12+ o'clock where the vol. nobe got betetr SNR spec with almost no loss.

If your headphones is to sensitive at the Lower gain setting with 12 o'clock volume, the you can in some cases adjust the output signal of your source to tune this in.

Try this and you will get an even better SQ.


----------



## bflat

Beolab said:


> According to iFi the best result is to use the middle or low setting and turn up the volume to 12 o'clock where the nobe is bit perfect without any loss.
> 
> If your headphones is to sensitive at the Lower gain setting with 12 o'clock volume, the you can in some cases adjust the output signal of your source to tune this in.
> 
> Try this and you will get an even better SQ.



Can you give more details on this? There is nothing digital inside the iCan Pro amp so not sure if that statement applies. Perhaps that was in reference to their DACs?


----------



## Beolab (May 22, 2018)

The amp is pure analogue, but the volume is one of the most critical component for the sound, and less than 5% is “bit perfect” in the mid-fi range, because the high end volume ciructs is often to costly for a integrated amp in the mid range price point.

A volume knob is only true efficent at serten levels where it can pass through the best SNR and on a Pro Ican the most efficent setting is a 12 O’clock.

If i remember correctly;  for every 3 db the volume nobe restains the signal , you miss out 1 bit in resolution, that is an average estimation / conversation, to understand what loss you will have.


----------



## Skooks

Don't worry about what gain setting and what volume setting to use... just try all and make your own determination about what sounds better... it's a personal thing with your system components and your ears. Just like which interconnect sounds better... or, which tubes sound better. If you don't try, you will never know what's better. But, when you do try, listen to the music with your ears, not what someone says it ought to be. Enjoy!


----------



## bflat

Beolab said:


> The amp is pure analogue, but the volume is one of the most critical component for the sound, and less than 5% is “bit perfect” in the mid-fi range, because the high end volume ciructs is often to costly for a integrated amp in the mid range price point.
> 
> A volume knob is only true efficent at serten levels where it can pass through the best SNR and on a Pro Ican the most efficent setting is a 12 O’clock.
> 
> If i remember correctly;  for every 3 db the volume nobe restains the signal , you miss out 1 bit in resolution, that is an average estimation / conversation, to understand what loss you will have.



Ok, so it is "equivalent to 1 bit resolution" and not physically losing bits of data. However, if listening at 80 db or so of volume, that also is only equivalent to 13-14 bits regardless of what your source bit resolution is. But I can understand where iFi recommends best amp performance with respect to SNR and THD at certain volume. Every amp has a sweet spot.


----------



## Beolab (May 22, 2018)

Yes every non Linear “bit-perfect” volume circuit got its peak where it got as little restriction,  often between 12-03 o’clock, if its not a pure linear bit perfect volume.
Often this can be ashived in digital domain before the D/A conversation in a DAC like PS Audio Direct Stream , Chord DAVE , Hugo etc, but you can find it more or less in Ultra high end integrated / pre amps with only analog circuit solutions also, like this Balabo Amp vol:




Many DAC’s got very poor digital volume circuits, so check what type of volume circuit your DAC have before deciding which volume should be the master.

If the DAC as often is not a pure bit perfect vol. circuit, then set it on max output, and lower the gain if possible on the dac and the amp so you travel near the 10-12 volume range when listening on normal levels.

Here you can learn a bit more about in in simple terms: 


You can heare pretty easy that the volume is very unbalanced on the Pro Ican from 0 -9.00 o’clock where you get more signal in the left channel vs the right for example.

So fix the volume on 12 o’clock and then adjust the level on the source dac if it is bit perfect, for minimum loss.  That is the best guideline.

Here is a easy explination on how a potentiometer / vol pot works in simple terms:


----------



## Audio-Phile

Just because it's come up here and mine only has about a month and a half or 2 months left in its warranty, does anyone else have a slightly static-y volume pot?  I notice a bit of crackling on mine when I turn it, although it's silent otherwise.  And it's somewhat inconsistent, seems to perhaps vary with the temperature and signal, just a bit.  It's gotten a bit better over time, but it's still a bit of an annoyance.  Additionally, I notice that when the amp is on, almost an exact reproduction of any vibration at all that travels through the nob goes right through to the left channel of whatever headphones are plugged in.  I can even just lightly rub my finger on it and hear it, like a stethoscope.  But only when on.  Also, the volume knob has enough play in it, which I just realized as I was typing this, that I can move it up and down about 2-3 mm.  The source knob has no play at all, or almost none.

I love mine otherwise, but I do wonder if I have a volume knob that's bad, or perhaps just not mounted correctly.  It does seem rather sensitive to distortion as well, I can send it into protection mode pretty easily with certain sounds, not sure if the feedback circuitry that measures this might be impacted by a volume knob.  Not really a problem, as it doesn't prevent me from listening to anything, but interesting to think about.  Using a tone generator is the easiest way to produce this.

@iFi audio , would love to have your input.


----------



## gto88

For the volume of DAC and Amp staff, it is quite opposite to what I heard and use to be.
Most of the recommendation is to max out the DAC and player (software, such as foobar2000)
and adjust amp only.
According to @Beolab, it would be some work to find the best combination in the gear chain?
So, to begin from here, say to fix the iCan Pro to 12 o'clock, then back to DAC then player
for a proper listening volume?


----------



## Beolab

gto88 said:


> For the volume of DAC and Amp staff, it is quite opposite to what I heard and use to be.
> Most of the recommendation is to max out the DAC and player (software, such as foobar2000)
> and adjust amp only.
> According to @Beolab, it would be some work to find the best combination in the gear chain?
> ...




If the DAC as often is not a pure Linear bit perfect vol. circuit, then set it to max output, and lower the gain if possible on the dac and the amp, so you travel near the 10-12 volume range on the Amp when listening on normal listening levels for minimal resistance and loss = Max SQ

So check your source component if it got a variable volume output that is Linear or not. 

First choice: 
Use the dac ( source component ) as master volume if its linear ,

Second best choice: 
If the source is not pure linear bit perfect, then set it to the max output, and set the Gain on the amp to the lowest setting, and try to come as close as possible to 10-12 o’clock on the vol on the Pro Ican at normal listening levels.


----------



## gto88

Great, I will give it a try.


----------



## tonyo442

hello, subject very interesting volume setting on the ifi pro ican, it is true that the volume potiometer is a resistance above all,
if I reduce the potentiometer of my dac, to increase that of the ifi pro is that I will not lose information in relation to my dac,
I have an audeze LCD4, I made several tests by putting me on the position 0 db ifi pro ican, potentiometer of the ifi pro at 12 o'clock, and my dac T + A dac8 at 80% of volume, the feeling of the music is different, less stréssante, more analog, but the detriment of the holding in the grave, on the classic it is not a problem, it is true that on several elements to find the good settings this is not obvious ,
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----------



## gto88

Tried to play volume knob between my DACs and amp (iCan Pro).
The +9db option on iCan Pro has better punch on lower end, +18db
seems over top and gets worse (than +9db) IMO.
Setting iCan Pro at 12 o'clock gets better dynamic than at 9 o'clock
in my brief playing.
This is interesting to play the combo to experience the difference it
can make.


----------



## Currawong

Louder volumes almost always sound more dynamic -- it's not a factor of the amp, as gain settings do not affect the sound quality. It's simply a factor of being louder and how it affects your brain. It's worth reading up on HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function).


----------



## rhern213

Had a question about the ifi pro, if I use the unbalanced inputs would it convert the signal to balanced output to use the full power of the amp? Or does it only work as SE in and SE out?


----------



## frogmeat69 (May 31, 2018)

rhern213 said:


> Had a question about the ifi pro, if I use the unbalanced inputs would it convert the signal to balanced output to use the full power of the amp? Or does it only work as SE in and SE out?


You can use the balanced outputs with SE inputs, works great. You can do 3 unbalanced RCA and 1 XLR, and they all go to the various headphone outs.
I have 3 DACs hooked to mine, don't know why, but I do, lol.


----------



## LoryWiv

Over the last 48 hours my iCan pro has developed a repetitive clicking / hum noise audible in solid state mode only, disappears completely with switch to tube modes. I just opened a ticket with iFi, but was wondering if anyone else has had this occur and what the issue / solutions were?


----------



## rhern213

frogmeat69 said:


> You can use the balanced outputs with SE inputs, works great. You can do 3 unbalanced RCA and 1 XLR, and they all go to the various headphone outs.
> I have 3 DACs hooked to mine, don't know why, but I do, lol.



I see, thanks.
Reason I'm asking is I have a V280 I wanted to compare to the ifi pro. The V280 phase converts the SE input to the balanced out to take full advantage of the entire circuitry and power of the amp.

I wanted to be sure the ifi does the same? Since the balanced lines in the ifi are completely separate and I don't see any mention of phase conversion I figured it's just using half the circuitry if using unbalanced inputs.

For reference I'm going to be using a Chord qutest so I have to use unbalanced inputs.


----------



## tonyo442

if after a few hours of walking the ifi pro ican starts to fail it is not reassuring, and it can be synonymous with the iDSD pro, ........ to think before investing in another device ,


----------



## iFi audio

rhern213 said:


> Had a question about the ifi pro, if I use the unbalanced inputs would it convert the signal to balanced output to use the full power of the amp? Or does it only work as SE in and SE out?



When using SE inputs first and foremost the SE circuit path is completely direct and uncompromised.

In order to allow balanced operation from unbalanced sources a special discrete zero feedback circuit is included that acts as phase-inverter and produces the missing (negative) polarity phase to drive the headphone amplifier in balanced operation. 

As a result the performance with either balanced or unbalanced sources remains as nearly identical as possible, for both SE and balanced headphone connections.


----------



## rhern213

iFi audio said:


> When using SE inputs first and foremost the SE circuit path is completely direct and uncompromised.
> 
> In order to allow balanced operation from unbalanced sources a special discrete zero feedback circuit is included that acts as phase-inverter and produces the missing (negative) polarity phase to drive the headphone amplifier in balanced operation.
> 
> As a result the performance with either balanced or unbalanced sources remains as nearly identical as possible, for both SE and balanced headphone connections.



Understood, thanks for the detailed explanation!


----------



## tonyo442

hello, please i would like to speak to the managers of iFI pro ican, many tickets are distributed at the moment, as long as the equipment is under warranty it does not matter, what will happen if the same failures appear after the warranty, I want to invest on the iDSD pro, but all is failures make me think, and so far the leaders have never intervened to reassure buyers, customers do not they rights to be reassured and have a respect, thank you


----------



## the finisher

So, I was maybe interested in the iFi pro ican to upgrade my Jot, but a 1 year warranty and problems with out responses from iFi Audio has me reconsidering.


----------



## colonelkernel8

the finisher said:


> So, I was maybe interested in the iFi pro ican to upgrade my Jot, but a 1 year warranty and problems with out responses from iFi Audio has me reconsidering.


Hello fellow MN'er.
I have the Pro iCan...I couldn't be happier with it. Everything about it seems extremely well built, although I did buy mine second hand so if it *did* have issues, it would have been returned/replaced, so it's possible that I merely received a survivor.


----------



## DrizztDo

Hello, is it supposed to be possible to drive 2 different headphones at the same time ? I've connected 2 headphones on both jack outputs and I only have sound coming from the left one, is it normal ?


----------



## LoryWiv

the finisher said:


> So, I was maybe interested in the iFi pro ican to upgrade my Jot, but a 1 year warranty and problems with out responses from iFi Audio has me reconsidering.



I have had my iCanPro just under a year and it's developed a low level static / droning noise. Opened a ticket with iFi last week and they have been responsive although to date they've not offered to have me send in the unit but have me trying "home remedies," not unreasonable but problem is still unresolved. Today they've asked me to submit an audio clip of the noise. Not sure how I do that in my headphone setup...is there a way to capture it directly from the iCan Pro output?


----------



## the finisher (Jun 5, 2018)

LoryWiv said:


> I have had my iCanPro just under a year and it's developed a low level static / droning noise. Opened a ticket with iFi last week and they have been responsive although to date they've not offered to have me send in the unit but have me trying "home remedies," not unreasonable but problem is still unresolved. Today they've asked me to submit an audio clip of the noise. Not sure how I do that in my headphone setup...is there a way to capture it directly from the iCan Pro output?



Unsure on the easiest way to capture. But if your word about a malfunctioning $1700/$1800 product within a year isn't good enough I'm more concerned. Outlaw audio gave me 2 years on a nice mid-fi receiver and they have been know to help out outside of warranty.

Then there is Schiit's 5 year warranty!

I hear great things about this amp, but for the price the after sale support seems a bit thin.



colonelkernel8 said:


> Hello fellow MN'er.
> I have the Pro iCan...I couldn't be happier with it. Everything about it seems extremely well built, although I did buy mine second hand so if it *did* have issues, it would have been returned/replaced, so it's possible that I merely received a survivor.



Glad you like it, I use my Jot for a preamp for my desktop speaker setup which is my priority over my headphones. The Jot does a great job, but I've heard the pro iCan is a bit warmer and even more resolving, and blacker background. And it's got some tubieness options.
But it is over 4 times the price.

I also read somewhere that you can't connect it as a preamp and headphone amp at the same time, even with the amps/monitors switched off. The Jot has all outputs connected now. It will drive my HD6xx's, LCD X's, Focal Solo 6s and a pair of subs all at the same time, no sweat.

One big draw for me is it's size, it would drop in right where the Jot is, but it has to work flawlessly like the Jot to be considered seriously.


----------



## LoryWiv

LoryWiv said:


> I have had my iCanPro just under a year and it's developed a low level static / droning noise. Opened a ticket with iFi last week and they have been responsive although to date they've not offered to have me send in the unit but have me trying "home remedies," not unreasonable but problem is still unresolved. Today they've asked me to submit an audio clip of the noise. Not sure how I do that in my headphone setup...is there a way to capture it directly from the iCan Pro output?



Update: While iFi support was responsive, no complaints, it was my own troubleshooting idea to power off the cable modem and router several feet away and sure enough, problem solved. I've now moved these a bit more distant from the amp and (poster crossing fingers tightly) I can hear no detectable static or extraneous noise. It is a bit disconcerting that the iCan Pro appears susceptible to wi-fi band interference but I'm going with the "all's well the ends well" mantra for now, and to reiterate, the iCan pro is a powerful, versatile amp that I do enjoy quite a lot.


----------



## LoryWiv

the finisher said:


> So, I was maybe interested in the iFi pro ican to upgrade my Jot, but a 1 year warranty and problems with out responses from iFi Audio has me reconsidering.



I heard the Jot at a Canjam and found it harsh, edgy and a bit strident for my taste....fatiguing even w/a 10 minute listen at the show. iCan Pro is much more musical IMHO.


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## the finisher (Jun 6, 2018)

LoryWiv said:


> I heard the Jot at a Canjam and found it harsh, edgy and a bit strident for my taste....fatiguing even w/a 10 minute listen at the show. iCan Pro is much more musical IMHO.



I've heard that from some, I've also read nice long winded impressions that claim the Jot is within spitting distance of the iCan as a SS amp, thou somewhat brighter.

I have done everything wrong according to many in audiophile land. I have a great dac, but it has a very forward nature.
All my ICs and HP cables have silver in them. I have a Jot, I have LCD Xs, I have very linear monitors with beryllium tweeters.
All this should add up to an incredibly bright and fatiguing system.

But it's not, I find it incredibly resolving an really fun to listen to, I have never in my life listened to music as much as now.
I have used the tuning ability of my monitors electronic crossovers to tweek the treble down a bit - 1 db. But I had to tweek the bass down even further for a perfect blend to the subs.

However I know the iCan will be mine someday, it is better than the Jot. 4.5 times better, I doubt it.

What I really need to hear is someones experience using the iCan as preamp and a headphone amp in the same system. Or even as a preamp period. Most folks simply gloss over this half of what it's supposed to be.

Or maybe I'll buy Freya and a Goldpoint switcher and more xlr cables, feed the Jot some tubeyness or not, and use it to control my Focals and subs.


----------



## datasyd

bfmcosta said:


> Fantastic input _*Katie88*_, thanks so much!
> 
> Let me contextualize a bit better my setups and all my questions/doubts:
> 
> ...


----------



## Morimoriya 62 (Jun 15, 2018)

Hi guys

I want to ask about DAC for pro ican.please tell me about your experience, which DAC is the best results for pro ican and hd800s ?
I currently use idsd silver +pro Ican +hd800s



Regards Mori


----------



## bildar

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I want to ask about DAC for pro ican.please tell me about your experience, which DAC is the best results for pro ican and hd800s ?
> I currently use idsd silver +pro Ican +hd800s
> ...




I love the sound of my Modi Multibit with the iCan.


----------



## Skooks

The Pro iCan is capable of taking the best from a good DAC and driving it home. But it won’t make better music than what the DAC gives it. I first had an Auralic  Vega, which is a darn good DAC. And that combo made really good sound thru my Audeze LCD-3F headphones. But then I traded the Vega in on a new PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC. And this DAC put the sound into another realm... I mean this system sings!! I set the volume on the Pro iCan at 12 o’clock... it’s best output... and then control the volume with the DirectStream. This sound would be hard to beat... no matter what genre you listen to!


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Skooks said:


> The Pro iCan is capable of taking the best from a good DAC and driving it home. But it won’t make better music than what the DAC gives it. I first had an Auralic  Vega, which is a darn good DAC. And that combo made really good sound thru my Audeze LCD-3F headphones. But then I traded the Vega in on a new PS Audio DirectStream DSD DAC. And this DAC put the sound into another realm... I mean this system sings!! I set the volume on the Pro iCan at 12 o’clock... it’s best output... and then control the volume with the DirectStream. This sound would be hard to beat... no matter what genre you listen to!



So, do you thinking idsd enough it?


----------



## the finisher

Anyone ever use the iCan's preamp functionality? And how does it do with the preouts and HP's connected at the same time?


----------



## Slim1970

the finisher said:


> Anyone ever use the iCan's preamp functionality? And how does it do with the preouts and HP's connected at the same time?


I'll be checking it soon once I get my Burson Audio Timekeeper amp. I've very curious as to how the Pro iCan behaves as a preamp. I just wish the Timekeeper had a headphone output on it for sound comparison. Seeing that it has gobs off power as well.


----------



## tonyo442

[QUOTE = "Slim1970, post: 14307809, member: 330061"] Je vais le vérifier bientôt une fois que j'aurai mon ampli Burson Audio Timekeeper. Je suis très curieux de savoir comment se comporte le Pro iCan en tant que préampli. Je souhaite juste que le Timekeeper ait une sortie casque pour la comparaison du son. Voyant qu'il a aussi du pouvoir. [/ QUOTE]


Slim1970 said:


> I'll be checking it soon once I get my Burson Audio Timekeeper amp. I've very curious as to how the Pro iCan behaves as a preamp. I just wish the Timekeeper had a headphone output on it for sound comparison. Seeing that it has gobs off power as well.




I tried to put the ifi pro as preamp, and the moon 430 HA as a power amp, the result is, loss of information and micro information, as long as we double the components, modulations cables,
after trial I returned to a single amp, it is much more transparent, .......


----------



## Slim1970

tonyo442 said:


> [QUOTE = "Slim1970, post: 14307809, member: 330061"] Je vais le vérifier bientôt une fois que j'aurai mon ampli Burson Audio Timekeeper. Je suis très curieux de savoir comment se comporte le Pro iCan en tant que préampli. Je souhaite juste que le Timekeeper ait une sortie casque pour la comparaison du son. Voyant qu'il a aussi du pouvoir. [/ QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, isn't the Moon 430HA a headphone amp as well? It's not a dedicated power amp so I can see that happening.


----------



## hamachan (Jun 17, 2018)

the finisher said:


> Anyone ever use the iCan's preamp functionality? And how does it do with the preouts and HP's connected at the same time?


I am using it as preamp mode.  I am feeding to Marantz pre-main amp to drive Dali's speaker (see my profile in detail if you are interested in).  Obviously noticed that better separation, better depth, more dynamics, tube feel (in case of tube mode), etc.  And it has a dedicate 3D holographic circuit for speaker system (different circuit from headphone). I do not use X-bass circuit for speaker because I have a subwoofer.  Everything better than solo use of my pre-main amp.  I am now thinking to upgrade my pre-main amp to a simple power amp which is l probably a great idea. By the way, I've never tried to use preamp and headphone simultaneously. I think it is possible because both are dedicated circuits but why do you need both the same time?  I do not understand the reason.


----------



## Beolab

Yes the Ican got is limits, if you compare it with a full size High End amp, it sounds flat and not so involving, i would have seen some more velvet magic to the sound that draws you into listen to it more often and for longer periods. Hard to say what is limit this, but most probably components, voicing and power reserve etc. It should have more warmth / glowing in the Tube mode in my opinion. 

But it is a great compact versatile headphone amp in its price range nevertheless!


----------



## the finisher (Jun 17, 2018)

Slim1970 said:


> I'll be checking it soon once I get my Burson Audio Timekeeper amp. I've very curious as to how the Pro iCan behaves as a preamp. I just wish the Timekeeper had a headphone output on it for sound comparison. Seeing that it has gobs off power as well.



That's a sweet little amp! Let us know



hamachan said:


> I am using it as preamp mode.  I am feeding to Marantz pre-main amp to drive Dali's speaker (see my profile in detail if you are interested in).  Obviously noticed that better separation, better depth, more dynamics, tube feel (in case of tube mode), etc.  And it has a dedicate 3D holographic circuit for speaker system (different circuit from headphone). I do not use X-bass circuit for speaker because I have a subwoofer.  Everything better than solo use of my pre-main amp.  I am now thinking to upgrade my pre-main amp to a simple power amp which is l probably a great idea. By the way, I've never tried to use preamp and headphone simultaneously. I think it is possible because both are dedicated circuits but why do _you need both the same time?_  I do not understand the reason.



Thanks

I don't actually need them to all work at the same time. But they do on my Jot, and if the can't on the iCan this could be a problem.
I run balanced pre's to the Focal's in my sig, they only accept balanced. Then I run single ended pre's to my subs DSP EQ, full range, left and right all the way to the sub. All crossover adjustments are done on the speakers/subs themselves.
I just switch the power off on the monitors and sub EQ when listening to HP's. This is necessary with a balanced setup like a Jot or iCan because balanced jacks have no switch.

But read somewhere, (forgot where) that having the preout's connected but amps switched off. then listening to HP's caused a problem. I might just contact iFi about this.

I've been looking and the pro iCan is the best step up for the Jot I've found to try.


----------



## Slim1970

Beolab said:


> Yes the Ican got is limits, if you compare it with a full size High End amp, it sounds flat and not so involving, i would have seen some more velvet magic to the sound that draws you into listen to it more often and for longer periods. Hard to say what is limit this, but most probably components, voicing and power reserve etc. It should have more warmth / glowing in the Tube mode in my opinion.
> 
> But it is a great compact versatile headphone amp in its price range nevertheless!


I agree that it definitely sounds like a solid state amp even in tube mode. It doesn't have the warmth and lushness of high end tube amps but it serves my purposes. What the Pro iCan is dynamic, clean, transparent in that it sounds like the source it's being feed. It's versatile and can drive just about every headphone out there. It is a great little amp!


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Beolab said:


> Yes the Ican got is limits, if you compare it with a full size High End amp, it sounds flat and not so involving, i would have seen some more velvet magic to the sound that draws you into listen to it more often and for longer periods. Hard to say what is limit this, but most probably components, voicing and power reserve etc. It should have more warmth / glowing in the Tube mode in my opinion.
> 
> But it is a great compact versatile headphone amp in its price range nevertheless!





Agree with you ,I have the same problem and I want to try another DAC currently use idsd silver.do you thinking that's solution ?


----------



## the finisher

Slim1970 said:


> I agree that it definitely sounds like a solid state amp even in tube mode. It doesn't have the warmth and lushness of high end tube amps but it serves my purposes. What the Pro iCan is dynamic, clean, transparent in that it sounds like the source it's being feed. It's versatile and can drive just about every headphone out there. It is a great little amp!



This sounds exactly what I want, and I've heard it's slightly warmer than a Jot.


----------



## Slim1970

the finisher said:


> This sounds exactly what I want, and I've heard it's slightly warmer than a Jot.


I love the sound of the Pro iCan. It's not sterile or analytical by any means. My previous amp the Oppo HA-1 had a warmer tone but I felt there was more to be had out of my headphones. 

When I got the Pro iCan my headphones seemed to open up. Not only that it made all of my headphones sound great. XBass+ has been my most used feature. 3D+ seems to be hit or miss with some headphones. My HEK V2's and HD800S's are so open sounding already it doesn't have any effect on them. But my LCD-XC's, Oppo PM3's and even my DT1990's 3D+ really opens them up. The Pro iCan really fits the sound signature I want.


----------



## tonyo442

hello, ifi pro has a more powerful power supply, for pro models, thank you


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Hi guys
Please guide me 
Hugo2 or IDSD BL which one better for PRO ICAN?


Regurds Mori


----------



## ufospls2

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> Please guide me
> Hugo2 or IDSD BL which one better for PRO ICAN?
> 
> ...



Well, iDSD BL is a lot cheaper than the Hugo2. I really enjoy my iDSD BL as a standalone unit, and thought it worked well with the Pro iCAN when I tried the combo. 

I haven't heard the HUGO 2, but my Mojo sounds great. I imagine the Hugo2 sounds great as well. However, once you get into the Hugo2 price range, there are a _lot_ of other options out there. Perhaps, with the Pro iCAN, a balanced DAC might be worth looking into as well? I'm not too sure.


----------



## Skooks

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> Please guide me
> Hugo2 or IDSD BL which one better for PRO ICAN?
> 
> ...


Using the Pro iCan, you definitely should go with a balanced DAC. And, if you can afford the Hugo 2, the PS Audio DirectStream would be much better... it is balanced. Or, the ifi Pro DAC... you can buy a new one for less than Hugo 2. Or, the Violectric V850... another good balanced DAC. But, whichever way you go... go balanced with the ifi Pro iCan. That's MHO.


----------



## jlbrach

no comparison, the H2 plays in  a different league


----------



## Slim1970

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> Please guide me
> Hugo2 or IDSD BL which one better for PRO ICAN?
> 
> ...


I prefer to use the Hugo 2 as a DAC with my Pro iCan. As a DAC only the Hugo 2 is far superior to running the iDSD BL in DAC only mode. But by themselves as a DAC/Amp combo the iDSD BL performance is much closer to Hugo 2. The amp section of the iDSD BL I feel is better than the Hugo 2's amp, which makes the iDSD BL a great buy as complete product. But both will get replaced with the Pro iDSD soon. I want to run it as a balanced DAC when I get it. But for now the Hugo 2 is the clear winner for use with the Pro iCan to my ears.


----------



## the finisher (Jun 23, 2018)

Edit


----------



## Morimoriya 62

jlbrach said:


> no comparison, the H2 plays in  a different league


 
I had both ,comparison side by side i know hugo2 better .Well, when I was using it two I did not have pro ican.
To my ear hugo2 all around superior than IDSD BL  But not much.


----------



## tonyo442

is it normal to compare 2 Dac whose price is almost 4 times higher


----------



## Morimoriya 62

tonyo442 said:


> is it normal to compare 2 Dac whose price is almost 4 times higher



In my opinion always higher price not reason to better .The question was about the coordination of the devices,IDSD BL Winner in all aspects.


----------



## JootecFromMars (Jun 24, 2018)

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> Please guide me
> Hugo2 or IDSD BL which one better for PRO ICAN?



I've only used my Pro iCAN with a balanced DAC. But iDSD BL vs Hugo 2, Hugo 2 would be better. But if you don't need a DAC with built in headphone amplifier, then look at Chord's QUTEST. It's the Hugo2 without the headphone amp and is cheaper.


----------



## datasyd

Skooks said:


> go with a balanced DAC


----------



## tekkster

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> Please guide me
> Hugo2 or IDSD BL which one better for PRO ICAN?
> 
> ...




I think you mentioned earlier that you agreed with @Beolab who stated the Pro iCan sounds a little flat.  So, my opinion may not matter much since compared to other gear I own, to me, it doesn't sound flat.  Then again, I'm not quite able to afford things much more expensive.  But what the heck, I'll throw some opinions down.

I connect the Mojo, Jot, H2 to the iFi Pro iCan (Also had the iDSD BL for a while earlier this year).  The Mojo I only connect because it is acting temporarily as my in home streaming client while waiting for the 2Go for the H2. 

The Jot has the older DAC in it, rather than the more recently available multi-bit dac.

I'm expecting the RME ADI-2 DAC too next week.  Previously a friend brought his to my home to try it out for a few hours and I loved it with the iFi iCan Pro, so decided to get my own.

As a DAC that is a little more than the iDSD BL, and significantly less expensive than the H2, and with balanced outputs, I would throw that idea in as something to consider. 

It has balanced outs.  To me, the RME, out of the RME's own headphones ports, doesn't quite get to toe-tapping fun.  The Pro iCan, on the other hand, is rather beautiful sounding, a nice hollow sound, at least compared to the headphones ports of each of the moderately priced DAC/AMP's I own.  So the pairing with the RME works really well for me and I pulled the trigger earlier this month on back order and expect it to arrive next week (Finally!  What a long wait, those things are always out of stock).  The RME has a lot of eq controls, which, I really like.  The customization on the RME + the little bass boost on the iFi iCan Pro, gives a ton of flexibility to get pretty much any headphone closer to my preferred sound profile (within limits, obviously).  My other option was to get the $149 Schiit Loki and put it between an unbalanced DAC output and the unbalanced iFi Pro input.  It's cheap enough that I still might consider it down the road, but for now, the RME seems the better option.

The other one already stated is the iDSD Pro.  It's less expensive than the H2, and seems like it might be pretty awesome.

----

It occurs to me, though, that if you're comparing the iFi iDSD BL and the H2, you have another required criteria:  Battery powered transportability.

If that's the case, then I think unbalanced outputs are your only option, and the H2 and iDSD BL are spot on options to consider.

The iDSD BL has the xbass feature, which can be very useful for some headphones.  For the HD800, the xbass on the Pro iCan really makes this combo the only option for me when listening to large classical orchestral pieces.  Such an expansive sound, and beautiful resonating bass.  Being able to have that bass boost in a transportable device can be very very nice if you have high resolution, but less punchy bass headphones.  If I remember right, the iDSD BL's xbass is 20hz, right?  Of course, if you already have headphones with some nice sounding bass that fits your preference, that feature is a bit of a waste.  It's a great DAC all around.  Since obviously everyone knows that any good DAC provides a lot more detail than going straight from a computer or smart mobile device, the iDSD BL will of course be great for detail, especially for a transportable device.  There's a lot there, and it's a good fit for the Pro iCan.  (I purchased an iDSD BL off Amazon early this year before deciding on the H2, used it for a while, thought the H2 was better for me, and returned the BL.  I regret that, and may have to go back and buy it)

Conversely, the H2 provides a level of detail that doesn't seem to matter much on slower headphones, but for me at least, makes a big difference on fast headphones like the hd800/s, utopia, t1, casscade, kse1200/1500, the H2 can really bring up subtle sounds that disappear or are harder to hear on other chains.

I will say that when the H2 is connected to the Pro iCan, I lose some detail when compared to it's own port.  When I connected the iDSD BL to the Pro iCan, I seem to have lost nothing.  Listening for subtle sounds that I know are there, the iDSD BL/Pro iCan didn't lose detail, but subtle sounds were harder to hear, so I had to concentrate when listening.  With the H2/Pro iCan combo, I also have to concentrate to hear specific subtle sounds I know are there.  I can hear them, but they're much more in the background and overwhelmed by the louder, main sounds.  Whereas the H2 straight to my headphones brought up subtle sounds such that I didn't have to concentrate to hear them, they were just there.


----------



## Beolab

In short the BL is fuller and got great impact, vs H2 got slight more nuances and got better separation. 
The BL got the X-Bass that can be a fun somethimes , whereas the H2 is slightly light in the low end. 

I did play the H2 through the analog input on the BL then down to the Ican, for the best of two worlds. 

The H2 is more refind, but i did sell it incl the DAVE + BluII in favour for a dCS Puccini dac / Master Clock . 

Just for fun i connected the clocked spdif outputs on the dCS dac to the spdif in on the BL and the sound lifted about 8 times above hehe. 

I did sell the BL for a couple of month ago, but i liked it alot for the price vs the H2. 

So the best combo is maybe the H2 + Ican technically wise on paper , but synergy wise i think the Ican and the H2 got the same signature , so the sound will probably sound a little less intriguing and slighty forced on your ears, vs the BL + Ican


----------



## Morimoriya 62

tekkster said:


> I think you mentioned earlier that you agreed with @Beolab who stated the Pro iCan sounds a little flat.  So, my opinion may not matter much since compared to other gear I own, to me, it doesn't sound flat.  Then again, I'm not quite able to afford things much more expensive.  But what the heck, I'll throw some opinions down.
> 
> I connect the Mojo, Jot, H2 to the iFi Pro iCan (Also had the iDSD BL for a while earlier this year).  The Mojo I only connect because it is acting temporarily as my in home streaming client while waiting for the 2Go for the H2.
> 
> ...


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Thank you for the full explanation.Given that I myself heard that both devices, I figured out which one I should choose.pro with h2 slightly smoother than BL and slightly lively i think.
I have to go idsd bl ,h2 out of my budget .[/QUOTE


----------



## datasyd

I have discovered a love of music I never knew possible. The ifi Pro iCAN combined with the ifi Pro iDSD. It looks as good as it sounds, both in a headphone setup and as a pre-amp. And it looks Boss. Happy to discuss as I also own the ifi Micro iDSD BL.


the finisher said:


> Anyone ever use the iCan's preamp functionality? And how does it do with the preouts and HP's connected at the same time?


----------



## the finisher

Nice setup


----------



## gordec (Jun 29, 2018)

Anyone tried iCan Pro with Gumby?


----------



## LoryWiv

I'm looking in the Pro iCan manual pdf and don't see anything about output impedance. I'm now testing my ZMF Auteur 300 ohm cans via the balanced XLR output and find that the sound is a bit more euphonic on mid gain (+ 9 dB) but my volume pot setting is barely 9 o'clock. Dialing back to low-gain I can get the volume pot between 10-12 as iFi suggests to minimize digital attenuation and channel imbalance, but the sound thins a bit with less note weight and musicality. Tube state is yet another variable I'm still sorting out. I've read that high impedance cans may shine more with high impedance output sources, but I'm sure there are many other variables. That said, my "fact" question is:

What is output impedance of the Pro iCan, and does it vary with gain settings  / solid state versus tube settings?

Thanks for any info.


----------



## datasyd

Morimoriya 62 said:


> I want to ask about DAC for pro ican. please tell me about your experience, which DAC is the best results for pro ican and hd800s ?
> I currently use idsd silver +pro Ican +hd800si




I can pretty definitively answer that question, having observed my good friend referring to the Pro iCAN / Pro iDSD kit as his 'wife'--my goodness--which I took to mean a lasting and loving arrangement

My friend is quite the audiophile. He has about a dozen headphones, including the HD800s, along with 5 amps, mostly driven by tubes, some of which he has personally assembled from scratch.

None of his gear has every sold me on the idea of the HD800s. I own the Denon AH-D7200 headphones, which deliver bass without any effort. We're talking opposite ends of the spectrum, my friend and . The Sennheiser HD800s sound stage has tremendous touch, yet it comes at a considerable cost to its bass delivery. My view changed considerably with ifi Pro. Using the Pro iCAN / Pro iDSD those headphones deliver bass that is musical and enjoyable even to my bass demanding ears. It's put put quite some strain on the friendship... The messages I get from him to come over are almost embarrassing. If you have any dignity and, admittedly, the fair amount of cash required to buy these two units I can assure you the sound it delivers will stagger any HD800s owner.


----------



## iFi audio (Jul 3, 2018)

LoryWiv said:


> I'm looking in the Pro iCan manual pdf and don't see anything about output impedance.



It's very low, around 2 ohms balanced.



LoryWiv said:


> I'm now testing my ZMF Auteur 300 ohm cans via the balanced XLR output and find that the sound is a bit more euphonic on mid gain (+ 9 dB) but my volume pot setting is barely 9 o'clock. Dialing back to low-gain I can get the volume pot between 10-12 as iFi suggests to minimize digital attenuation and channel imbalance,



The Pro iCan has no digital attenuation and the potentiometer has very tight tracking - so channel balance is no issue.

However at around 9 o'clock attenuation is very substantial and may affect the sound. It is of course possible that this is what you like about the sound like this... Feel free to experiment and choose what works for you.



LoryWiv said:


> but the sound thins a bit with less note weight and musicality. Tube state is yet another variable I'm still sorting out.



Jut try kicking the Pro iCan into 'Tube+' mode for a warmer and more euphonic sound.



LoryWiv said:


> I've read that high impedance cans may shine more with high impedance output sources,



This is what one might call an urban myth. Higher impedance headphones usually need higher drive voltage and lower current and are less affected in terms of frequency response than low impedance headphones.

To conclude, 'high impedance headphones sound better from high impedances' is an extrapolation that is false.

The correct way is to state that 'high output Impedance headphone amplifiers (e.g. Tube OTL) can only be used with high impedance headphones as they will hopelessly colour the sound of low impedance headphones, may have insufficient drive current for low impedance headphones and may clip at low volume levels as a result'.



LoryWiv said:


> What is output impedance of the Pro iCan, and does it vary with gain settings  / solid state versus tube settings?



As we've said above, the output impedance is very low and does not vary with gain settings.


----------



## wadi

iFi audio said:


> It's very low, around 2 ohms balanced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for your detailed answer. What is the output impedance from unbalanced outputs?


----------



## LoryWiv

iFi audio said:


> It's very low, around 2 ohms balanced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



iFi: Very helpful and appreciated. Your presence on this forum is an asset. I will keep trying combinations of gain and amplifier mode but acknowledge it's a "champagne problem" as all sound great, just variations on a consistently enjoyable sound signature. I'm also still burning in my Auteur ( if you believe in such things) and the bass is tightening up a bit, note weight and warmth subtly better without bleeding into the mids and stellar highs. Like I said, "champagne problems"....this hobby of ours can be a never ending quest.


----------



## jlbrach (Jul 5, 2018)

I am the lucky owner of the dave/blu2 combo and abyss Phi HP's.....I have gone back and forth in terms of using an external amp or not.....I came across the pro ican and most say i am very pleasantly surprised...first of all using it single ended i am able to use the 0 DB setting and drive my abyss without breaking a sweat...the size of the unit makes it easy to place on my desk and most importantly it sounds great....i am amazed how such a compact package can be so powerful...in fact I tried it balanced and found i really didnt need all that power to my surprise....I havent yet played with all the doodads but so far i am very impressed and pleased

Let me also add the remote is perhaps the worst remote I have ever used and i have owned some pretty crappy remotes...this one needs to be within about 6 inches of the unit for it to work rendering it totally useless


----------



## wadi

wadi said:


> Thanks for your detailed answer. What is the output impedance from unbalanced outputs?



@iFi audio I will appreciate your reply.


----------



## Currawong

Morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys
> Please guide me
> Hugo2 or IDSD BL which one better for PRO ICAN?





tekkster said:


> I will say that when the H2 is connected to the Pro iCan, I lose some detail when compared to it's own port.  When I connected the iDSD BL to the Pro iCan, I seem to have lost nothing.  Listening for subtle sounds that I know are there, the iDSD BL/Pro iCan didn't lose detail, but subtle sounds were harder to hear, so I had to concentrate when listening.  With the H2/Pro iCan combo, I also have to concentrate to hear specific subtle sounds I know are there.  I can hear them, but they're much more in the background and overwhelmed by the louder, main sounds.  Whereas the H2 straight to my headphones brought up subtle sounds such that I didn't have to concentrate to hear them, they were just there.



I pretty much agree with this. I feel that the Pro iCan is better using the balanced inputs. It seemed to more readily pick up noise (at least in my set-up) using the RCA inputs than other amps I have here. A better result seems to be using the Pro iDSD as the source. Of course, that ignores any desire for portability.


----------



## Clive101

jlbrach said:


> I am the lucky owner of the dave/blu2 combo and abyss Phi HP's.....I have gone back and forth in terms of using an external amp or not.....I came across the pro ican and most say i am very pleasantly surprised...first of all using it single ended i am able to use the 0 DB setting and drive my abyss without breaking a sweat...the size of the unit makes it easy to place on my desk and most importantly it sounds great....i am amazed how such a compact package can be so powerful...in fact I tried it balanced and found i really didnt need all that power to my surprise....I havent yet played with all the doodads but so far i am very impressed and pleased
> 
> Let me also add the remote is perhaps the worst remote I have ever used and i have owned some pretty crappy remotes...this one needs to be within about 6 inches of the unit for it to work rendering it totally useless



I have read your post with great interest and enquire the difference in SQ direct from dave/blu2 with and without pro ican…?

I have the LCD4 and soon perhaps Abyss Phil, how does the extra power with the pro ican affect the LCD4 and Phil in SQ...?

Regards


----------



## jlbrach

Surprisingly to me the sound stage is larger, the bass is deeper, the impact is greater. There is more grunt. When I listen to an old mono jazz recording the stage is larger so that a mono recording sounds far better to my ears. The pro can has more power than I imagined possible in such a small form factor. Is there a loss of transparency? Yes but it is negligible and you can easily go back and forth if you do choose. Best of all the pro can is cheap and I got a great deal on a used one and I am thrilled


----------



## Clive101

jlbrach said:


> Surprisingly to me the sound stage is larger, the bass is deeper, the impact is greater. There is more grunt. When I listen to an old mono jazz recording the stage is larger so that a mono recording sounds far better to my ears. The pro can has more power than I imagined possible in such a small form factor. Is there a loss of transparency? Yes but it is negligible and you can easily go back and forth if you do choose. Best of all the pro can is cheap and I got a great deal on a used one and I am thrilled



Thank you I will try.
If I may ask one more question, how did you connect the dave/blu xlr to the pro, did you use expensive interconnects...?


----------



## jlbrach

I am using xlr cables but not super expensive. I believe they cost me 50 bucks


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> Surprisingly to me the sound stage is larger, the bass is deeper, the impact is greater. There is more grunt. When I listen to an old mono jazz recording the stage is larger so that a mono recording sounds far better to my ears. The pro can has more power than I imagined possible in such a small form factor. Is there a loss of transparency? Yes but it is negligible and you can easily go back and forth if you do choose. Best of all the pro can is cheap and I got a great deal on a used one and I am thrilled



I know you used to own the Moon 430HA. Of the two, which do you prefer, and why? Thanks!


----------



## jlbrach

Both outstanding,the 430 is twice as expensive but the pro can is more powerful and has a form factor that is far more convenient. Taking cost into account pro can easily. No cost involved I rate them even


----------



## Skooks

Could I ask you if you had and used the DAC option in the 430? If so, were you compelled to use a free standing DAC to get the most of its potential?
Thanks... Skooks


----------



## jlbrach

I owned the amp only,no DAC ..i used my chord dave with the 430


----------



## Currawong

I see what people mean by the Pro iCan working well with the Pro iDSD. I have both in solid-state mode, as the tube modes tend to narrow the soundstage a bit, at least with the default tubes.


----------



## iFi audio

wadi said:


> Thanks for your detailed answer. What is the output impedance from unbalanced outputs?



Low. 2/1 for balanced/SE outputs respectively.


----------



## tonyo442

jlbrach said:


> I owned the amp only,no DAC ..i used my chord dave with the 430



hello, I also have the moon 430, the lcd4 headphones, but I prefer to listen to the ifi pro ican better suited with the lcd4, like you the sound of Chord Dave, is it not too analytical, I have the T + a dac8, thank you
Tony


----------



## Morimoriya 62 (Jul 17, 2018)

hi guys

I need your help and advice on a Pro Ican device.
I had purchased a Pro Ican amplifier unit from samma3a store in Dubai, UAE. Last night as the devise was on and I was using it while charging, I soptted some dust, so I tried to clean it, but syddenly there was a cracking noise and the device turned off with a burnt smell. The piece of paper tissue I used to clean was completely dry and there was not a slightest humidity on it, so any short circuit possiblilty is highly remote.I bought the device around 2 to 3 months I'm very angry and worried about this amplifier.With this small incident, it doesn't work.I am a fan of this brand and I have a lot of products and  very pleased.

It will be a high appreciation if you tell me what should I do. I have not tried to turn on the devise since this incident.


Regurds Mori


----------



## Skooks

That's very unusual ideed... I never had a problem like that. I wonder if something is inside the amp. But, regardless... get in touch with ifi and tell them your problem. Warranty should cover it. Also, tell or show your dealer the Pro iCan.


----------



## Morimoriya 62 (Jul 17, 2018)

Skooks said:


> That's very unusual ideed... I never had a problem like that. I wonder if something is inside the amp. But, regardless... get in touch with ifi and tell them your problem. Warranty should cover it. Also, tell or show your dealer the Pro iCan.



I've sent an email waiting for the answer.I think that's problem isolating .Body Insulation


----------



## bflat

Morimoriya 62 said:


> hi guys
> 
> I need your help and advice on a Pro Ican device.
> I had purchased a Pro Ican amplifier unit from samma3a store in Dubai, UAE. Last night as the devise was on and I was using it while charging, I soptted some dust, so I tried to clean it, but syddenly there was a cracking noise and the device turned off with a burnt smell. The piece of paper tissue I used to clean was completely dry and there was not a slightest humidity on it, so any short circuit possiblilty is highly remote.I bought the device around 2 to 3 months I'm very angry and worried about this amplifier.With this small incident, it doesn't work.I am a fan of this brand and I have a lot of products and  very pleased.
> ...



The iCan Pro chassis is very rigid and protects the circuit board and tube very well. However, when I got mine, I carefully ran my fingers on the vents to check for any flakes of left over aluminum. I didn't find any but it was not the smoothest cut outs either. My guess is that your chassis vent had a tiny flake of metal that came loose when you wiped. If it landed somewhere on the PCB it could have caused this issues since what you describe is an electrical short. Either this or you have a blown board component that just happened to go off while you wiped. Either way, it's an incredibly unlucky event and hope you are able to get warranty repair soon.


----------



## hamachan

Morimoriya 62 said:


> hi guys
> 
> I need your help and advice on a Pro Ican device.
> I had purchased a Pro Ican amplifier unit from samma3a store in Dubai, UAE. Last night as the devise was on and I was using it while charging, I soptted some dust, so I tried to clean it, but syddenly there was a cracking noise and the device turned off with a burnt smell. The piece of paper tissue I used to clean was completely dry and there was not a slightest humidity on it, so any short circuit possiblilty is highly remote.I bought the device around 2 to 3 months I'm very angry and worried about this amplifier.With this small incident, it doesn't work.I am a fan of this brand and I have a lot of products and  very pleased.
> ...


I used to live in Doha, Qatar where is similar weather condition, harsh in summer and always dusty. I had serious trouble with my desktop PC as my experience, I had to replace most of the components such as CPU, motherboard and main memories due to dust or sand during my stay there.  The CPU was completely damaged and never work after 1 month. Another example is my digital cameras.  Power zoom was broken, main switch didn't work..... It is very bad circumstances for any electric devices.  Probably you faced shortcircuit somewhere inside of pro iCAN, which could easily happen in those regions.  My advice is to bring your unit to the retailer to repair.


----------



## Morimoriya 62

hamachan said:


> I used to live in Doha, Qatar where is similar weather condition, harsh in summer and always dusty. I had serious trouble with my desktop PC as my experience, I had to replace most of the components such as CPU, motherboard and main memories due to dust or sand during my stay there.  The CPU was completely damaged and never work after 1 month. Another example is my digital cameras.  Power zoom was broken, main switch didn't work..... It is very bad circumstances for any electric devices.  Probably you faced shortcircuit somewhere inside of pro iCAN, which could easily happen in those regions.  My advice is to bring your unit to the retailer to repair.




I live in Tehran Dust is not too much .


----------



## iFi audio

Folks...

*CanJam London 2018!*

*

 *

...and two of our staff - Sarah and Hannah - will be there! The girls will be located with iFi audio hardware at the Electromod's booth! Please do visit the place, the iFi ladies don't bite!

And to all able to visit the event, enjoy!


----------



## Morimoriya 62 (Jul 27, 2018)

Hi guys

I have question ,I have experienced the use of several products with my HD800S (headphone) idsd micro ,idsd black ,Ican se ,Itube2 ,hugo2 ,Dx200 ibasso ....The question is here With PRO ICAN the most sibilance I experienced, upper mid too thin .I have not heard another sample of this product Do you think this is normal?

My device failed ,I'm suspicious of having the problem first .Has anyone had an experience like me?


Regurds Mori


----------



## Currawong

Morimoriya 62 said:


> I have question ,I have experienced the use of several products with my HD800S (headphone) idsd micro ,idsd black ,Ican se ,Itube2 ,hugo2 ,Dx200 ibasso ....The question is here With PRO ICAN the most sibilance I experienced, upper mid too thin .I have not heard another sample of this product Do you think this is normal?



It shouldn't affect the sound in that way. What source are you using for the Pro iCan and what kind of cable? Also, is 3D mode activated?


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Currawong said:


> It shouldn't affect the sound in that way. What source are you using for the Pro iCan and what kind of cable? Also, is 3D mode activated?



My source Idsd Black and about RCA cable (ifi rca include iRack) stock headphone cable.all mode sibilance in upper mids ,male and female tube and tube+ Does not matter.


----------



## Currawong

Morimoriya 62 said:


> My source Idsd Black and about RCA cable (ifi rca include iRack) stock headphone cable.all mode sibilance in upper mids ,male and female tube and tube+ Does not matter.



Is your Micro iDSD in pre-amp mode or direct mode? Make sure all modes are off on both devices. No XBass, no 3D on either.


----------



## Rayzilla (Jul 29, 2018)

Currawong said:


> Is your Micro iDSD in pre-amp mode or direct mode? Make sure all modes are off on both devices. No XBass, no 3D on either.


Might be a silly question but should the iDSD BL be in Pre-amp or Direct mode if connected to an iMac? I assume it should be on Pre-amp mode if you want to use the DAC of the BL, otherwise it would use the internal DAC in the iMac?


----------



## Currawong

Rayzilla said:


> Might be a silly question but should the iDSD BL be in Pre-amp or Direct mode if connected to an iMac? I assume it should be on Pre-amp mode if you want to use the DAC of the BL, otherwise it would use the internal DAC in the iMac?



I'm guessing direct mode if you want to use it as the DAC and not use it's volume control. The exception to this would be if the output is too high for the input of the amp being used.   Usually amps have the volume control on the input, but some, for lower distortion, have their volume control after the first gain stage. In that case, the input can be overloaded easily.


----------



## Rayzilla

Currawong said:


> I'm guessing direct mode if you want to use it as the DAC and not use it's volume control. The exception to this would be if the output is too high for the input of the amp being used.   Usually amps have the volume control on the input, but some, for lower distortion, have their volume control after the first gain stage. In that case, the input can be overloaded easily.


Oh, that's right. I remember reading that direct mode is the setting to use the BL as a DAC only and bypass the amp. I guess I wasn't thinking when I made my post. Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

Rayzilla said:


> Oh, that's right. I remember reading that direct mode is the setting to use the BL as a DAC only and bypass the amp. I guess I wasn't thinking when I made my post. Thanks.



Yes, direct mode is the way to go if you want to bypass vol. control.

On a side note folks, our new site's up and running! Hopefully you'll enjoy it as much as we do!

https://ifi-audio.com


----------



## Slim1970

@iFi audio the new site is beautiful. It’s much more user friendly and a joy to navigate. Nice job!!


----------



## Sonic Defender

Seriously better site, great job. I used to do web site development and search engine optimization and the new site is most definitely an improvement.


----------



## iFi audio

Sonic Defender said:


> Seriously better site, great job. I used to do web site development and search engine optimization and the new site is most definitely an improvement.





Slim1970 said:


> @iFi audio the new site is beautiful. It’s much more user friendly and a joy to navigate. Nice job!!



Sincere thanks to both of you. We wanted to improve our site for months and we're happy that it finally happened. We also think the new version is far better and far more user friendly.


----------



## GHoldridge

the new site was a shock to me when I opened it up I've been out of the loop for a bit I like it though looks very clean well put together and feels intuitive. I had a question about the ican pro does using the 3.5mm compared to the 6.3mm give you a greater chance of hitting over protection (red light situation) since it uses the iematch?


----------



## youurayy

Guys what is the Pro iCAN's best suggested balanced output for headphones -- is it the 4-pin XLR or that iFi's system with 2x 6.3 mm jacks?  Or something else.


----------



## Currawong

The 4-pin XLR and dual-3pin are identical, so I'd just use the 4-pin XLR. Ideally in the future I hope they switch to 1x 6.3, 1x 4pin XLR and 1x 4.4mm Pentaconn.


----------



## Currawong

Video review. The written version will come later.


----------



## iFi audio

Currawong said:


> Video review. The written version will come later.




Great work Amos, as per usual!

Ah, one more thing...

*EISA* (the European Sound and Imaging Association) has awarded the xDSD as* the Best Portable DAC/Headphone Amplifier for 2018-2019.*

The official release is to be found here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-xdsd-the-official-thread.873787/page-56#post-14422901







 HAPPY!


----------



## iFi audio

Folks...

*IFA 2018 *
*...it's almost here!*



 

*When?*
The 31st Aug - 5 Sept 2018!

*The place?*
Berlin!

*Where exactly?*
Hall 1.2, stand 206, WOD Audio (iFi's German distributor)

You'll have a chance to preview our EISA award winner - xDSD! Our two lovely girls - *Victoria* and *Sarah *- will be there supported by *Thorsten Loesch* himself.

If you'll attend, please visit us!


----------



## Levanter

@iFi audio 
If I buy the iFi Pro iCan from US which is a 120v to be used in Malaysia which is a 240v, can I just buy a 240v power supply brick from iFi? I'm assuming the only difference needed to make it work is the power supply brick?
And how much does the power supply brick alone cost?


----------



## bflat

Levanter said:


> @iFi audio
> If I buy the iFi Pro iCan from US which is a 120v to be used in Malaysia which is a 240v, can I just buy a 240v power supply brick from iFi? I'm assuming the only difference needed to make it work is the power supply brick?
> And how much does the power supply brick alone cost?



The power supply spec is 85-265V 50/60 Hz AC input.


----------



## Levanter

bflat said:


> The power supply spec is 85-265V 50/60 Hz AC input.



Oh wow thanks, that means it is universal compliant? I just need to get a generic UK power cord to replace the US supplied cord to hook to the power supply right?


----------



## bflat

Levanter said:


> Oh wow thanks, that means it is universal compliant? I just need to get a generic UK power cord to replace the US supplied cord to hook to the power supply right?



That's right. I don't want to misquote what the 2 pin socket is on the power supply so if iFi doesn't answer your question, just wait until you get the power supply and then get the appropriate AC cable.


----------



## youurayy

I've connected my newly-arrived Pro iCAN to my Lampizator Amber SE, silver RCA interconnects, + balanced Utopia cable (both cables from the amazing Invictus Cable).  What can I say, it's the first time that I hear what that DSD DAC really can do!  No way back. End-game. (it's what we always say, don't we). Need to shelve for Roon+HQPlayer now if want TIDAL thru DSD.
But I guess the point is to have a gear that makes you quit looking for a new gear, which I think the iFi Pro (iCAN+iDSD) will do for me for many months to come. I just hope iFi won't come out with "Black Label" versions tomorrow and make us all feel outdated again, lol.


----------



## frogmeat69

youurayy said:


> * I just hope iFi won't come out with "Black Label" versions tomorrow and make us all feel outdated again, lol.*


Oh God, bite your tongue, lol!!!!


----------



## datasyd

youurayy said:


> Need to shelve for Roon+HQPlayer now if want TIDAL thru DSD.



I' happily experiment listening to Roon+HQPlayer playing Tidal thru DSD on my Pro iCAN+Pro iDSD, what am I doing wrong?


----------



## youurayy (Aug 30, 2018)

datasyd said:


> I' happily experiment listening to Roon+HQPlayer playing Tidal thru DSD on my Pro iCAN+Pro iDSD, what am I doing wrong?



Not sure I understand - iDSD can play PCM from TIDAL directly (e.g. master will be unpacked on the PC and sent at 96 or 88 kHz into the iDSD) and iDSD can internally upconvert to DSD.

But with a DSD-only DAC, something has to convert the PCM to DSD on the PC, which I know only HQPlayer can do, while acting as an output for Roon, which can interface with TIDAL. But one has to buy license for Roon and license for HQPlayer.

Ideally, the foo_dsd_asio from Foobar (or Foobar itself) would be able to act as a Windows sound output system device, so that TIDAL's output could be set to that device. Foo_dsd_asio would then output to the DSD player device, as it normally does. But I haven't found a way to make this work, perhaps aside from Foobar reading uPnP stream generated from a capturing Windows device where TIDAL would be pointed to, but that sounds a bit convoluted.

Edit: Ah, I found Roon should be able to upconvert to DSD by itself, trying to get it to work: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/dsd-upconv-playback-stops-at-30-seconds/48572

Edit2: got it to work but it's finnicky, I'll be sticking with PCM and a DAC from iFi


----------



## datasyd (Sep 1, 2018)

Roon does it by, without HQPlayer, by enabling the DSP Engine.


----------



## youurayy

datasyd said:


> Roon does it by, without HQPlayer, by enabling the DSP Engine.



Yes I figured that, however Roon has some bug where the DSP engine is influenced by other processes on the computer, when it absolutely shouldn't be: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/cr...nversion-when-navigating-away-from-roon/48590


----------



## oddeeoh

From the reviews I've read/seen/heard of this amp, I get the impression that using the Tube modes of the amp don't really impart a lot of "tubey" sound to them. As such, has anybody done any tube rolling that can comment on this? I don't have the amp yet, but I've been interested in purchasing it and having the option to have a normal SS amp and a tube amp in one at the flick of a switch is certainly very appealing to me. If the tube side of it doesn't add much to the sound signature, however, I don't know if it's worth it over getting a nice solid state amp in the same price range.


----------



## Slim1970 (Sep 3, 2018)

oddeeoh said:


> From the reviews I've read/seen/heard of this amp, I get the impression that using the Tube modes of the amp don't really impart a lot of "tubey" sound to them. As such, has anybody done any tube rolling that can comment on this? I don't have the amp yet, but I've been interested in purchasing it and having the option to have a normal SS amp and a tube amp in one at the flick of a switch is certainly very appealing to me. If the tube side of it doesn't add much to the sound signature, however, I don't know if it's worth it over getting a nice solid state amp in the same price range.


The Tube and Tube+ modes do incorporate some tube flavor. They both take the edginess/bite off the sharp notes and add a little warmth will maintaining the intended sound signature iFi was shooting for. To me the tube modes sound like tubes with solid state properties.


----------



## datasyd

oddeeoh said:


> I get the impression that using the Tube modes of the amp don't really impart a lot of "tubey" sound



I strongly disagree if the question combines both the Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN. Without doubt, that combination is both "tubey" and exceptionally good. Along with a friend (who is presently building his own Tube Amp) we find the sound exceptional across the frequency range. It gives base to his Seinhesser HD800S headphones and a soundstage to my Denon AH-D7200 headphones. No doubt sainthoods have been awarded for lessor miracles.


----------



## oddeeoh (Sep 2, 2018)

datasyd said:


> I strongly disagree if the question combines both the Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN. Without doubt, that combination is both "tubey" and exceptionally good. Along with a friend (who is presently building his own Tube Amp) we find the sound exceptional across the frequency range. It gives base to his Seinhesser HD800S headphones and a soundstage to my Denon AH-D7200 headphones. No doubt sainthoods have been awarded for lessor miracles.



I have a Topping DX7s doing DAC duties, but, coincidentally enough, I have a pair of HD800 S and Hifiman HEX V2 cans. $2500 is quite a lot of money to spend on the Pro iDSD. I just, as in within the last few hours, bought a Pro iCAN from another member here on Head-Fi, so we will see what half of that stack will do for my HD800 S. Can't wait!


----------



## oddeeoh

Slim1970 said:


> The Tube and Tube+ modes do incorporate some tube flavor. They both take they edginess/bite off the sharp notes and add a little warmth will maintaining the intended sound signature iFi was shooting for. To me the tube modes sound like tubes with solid state properties.



Sorry, did you say something? I'm too busy drooling over the gear in your signature.

As noted in my other post, I just purchased a Pro iCAN off of another member here on Head-Fi and can't wait to see what it does for my HD800 S and HEX V2.


----------



## Slim1970

oddeeoh said:


> Sorry, did you say something? I'm too busy drooling over the gear in your signature.
> 
> As noted in my other post, I just purchased a Pro iCAN off of another member here on Head-Fi and can't wait to see what it does for my HD800 S and HEX V2.


On the HD 800S's I always used the first XBass+ setting for them. It made all the difference in the world for that headphone. Same for the HEK V2's I had. You're going to love what Pro iCan does for those two headphones.


----------



## Rob N

I have he Ican Pro on top of the IDSD using the ifi rack. The Ican Pro does get very warm in tube mode and I’m wondering if stacking will mean it may get too hot


----------



## datasyd

Rob N said:


> I’m wondering if stacking will mean it may get too hot



I have no problem running the Pro iCAN / iDSD for hours on end, both devices in tube mode, into my headphones or home stereo AMP, at full gain on the iCAN, as I photographed here on my two Pro iRacks. More of a problem for me is the rack's strength, with limited tolerance for moving things around as I do.

Anyone have a view on pro cases able to make I this gear more transportable, customizable padding or sliding racks, etc?


----------



## iFi audio

This happened several days ago, enjoy!


----------



## iFi audio

Our Pro iDSD review just landed at www.6moons.com and it's a good one! 

http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/ifi/1.html

Enjoy!


----------



## Starcruncher (Oct 10, 2018)

Deleted for sale post


----------



## Slim1970

Starcruncher said:


> Put my iCan Pro up for sale in the forums. I'm conflicted about doing this, but it's the logical thing to do at this point in my life :/


Dang, sorry to here this. It's a fantastic amp.


----------



## Tom Blake

Has anyone here run the iCAN Pro with a Chord DAVE? If so, did you feel it degraded DAVE's analog out performance when iCAN Pro was used as a preamp (with DAVE in DAC mode)? I used to own the iCAN Pro but sold it when I acquired DAVE as I thought it was redundant (and it helped to fund the DAVE purchase). I have missed my mothballed HE-6's though and have the opportunity to try the Abyss Phi in the future. DAVE can't drive those two cans very well (especially HE-6). As such, I acquired Starcruncher's iCAN Pro for about what I sold my old unit for. Trying to decide if I should just use it as a headphone amp via DAVE's SE outs (with DAVE in Digital Pre mode and connected directly to my power amp) or as a full balanced preamp with DAVE in DAC mode. My speaker amp is balanced in only (Benchmark AHB2) so I need the balanced outs from DAVE to connect to the amp. I assume iCAN Pro converts a SE signal into balanced at the input as the amp is fully balanced internally. Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio (Sep 21, 2018)

Folks, this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bigger-bolder-better-the-new-amr.889437/

...and this:








If you're nearby, please do visit us. The place is easy to find, right between food and beverages


----------



## iFi audio (Sep 24, 2018)

Folks, just a quick bit of nfo: if you're going to attend this year's RMAF in Denver (Colorado), at our booth we'll update firmware of any non-Pro iDSD machine by iFi audio to 5.3C. Why? Most people can get this done on their own, but if you're in need of assistance and would like to get familiar with our GTO filter, we're there for you! Please bring your hardware to our booth and we'll do the rest!


----------



## iFi audio

Also folks, AMR will be demoing two machines in the Colorado Audio Society Hospitality Suite at RMAF. Room 6007.



 


 

Yup, we're giving away Fast Blow fuses for Magnepan speakers! 2.5A for Magnepan 3.6/3.7 and 4A for other Magnepan machines.


----------



## Tacanacy (Oct 6, 2018)

Has anyone used the iCan with K1000?
iFi advertises that it can drive K1000, but I came across someone who said that it easily shuts off (0% XBass, 0% 3D crossover, 0% gain at 12 o'clock on the volume knob) when listening to songs with high dynamic range with K1000.

And, is anyone able to compare the SE output to Lyr 2 or R2R 11?


----------



## RustyGates

Tom Blake said:


> Has anyone here run the iCAN Pro with a Chord DAVE? If so, did you feel it degraded DAVE's analog out performance when iCAN Pro was used as a preamp (with DAVE in DAC mode)? I used to own the iCAN Pro but sold it when I acquired DAVE as I thought it was redundant (and it helped to fund the DAVE purchase). I have missed my mothballed HE-6's though and have the opportunity to try the Abyss Phi in the future. DAVE can't drive those two cans very well (especially HE-6). As such, I acquired Starcruncher's iCAN Pro for about what I sold my old unit for. Trying to decide if I should just use it as a headphone amp via DAVE's SE outs (with DAVE in Digital Pre mode and connected directly to my power amp) or as a full balanced preamp with DAVE in DAC mode. My speaker amp is balanced in only (Benchmark AHB2) so I need the balanced outs from DAVE to connect to the amp. I assume iCAN Pro converts a SE signal into balanced at the input as the amp is fully balanced internally. Thanks!



See this review of the iCAN paired with Chord DAVE


----------



## datasyd

I loved the Pro iCAN while using the Qutest in store. I'm actually considering buying the Qutest as a result.


----------



## Sound Eq

Greetings

I have a chord qutest, and it has 1V, 2V and 3V output, what is recommended to use with ifi pro ican amp?

thanks


----------



## Starcruncher

Sound Eq said:


> Greetings
> 
> I have a chord qutest, and it has 1V, 2V and 3V output, what is recommended to use with ifi pro ican amp?
> 
> thanks



I had 2QUTE which was only 3V. I never had an issue with that. I even got in touch with iFi to see if it was ok. They said that the amp can handle something way more than 3V (like 15V or something, but I don't recall the exact number).

But just try all three and see what you like best.


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> Greetings
> 
> I have a chord qutest, and it has 1V, 2V and 3V output, what is recommended to use with ifi pro ican amp?
> 
> thanks


I use my Hugo 2 at 3V with my Pro iCan. The higher the voltage setting give you more volume output from what I can tell.  I use 3 volts and control the volume with the Pro iCan. Chord's DACs really pair well with the Pro iCan. The Chord and iFi pairing really gives you insight into the music. It's transparent, clear, powerful and dynamic all at the same time. But what I'm missing is a little musicality, which is why I'm really considering the Pro iDSD. Sure I'll be giving up some transparency and sacrificing some detail but I'll gain a balanced connection and a little infusion of warmth in my music. Either way the Pro iCan is the centerpiece of it all. I love this versatile amp.


----------



## Sound Eq

Slim1970 said:


> I use my Hugo 2 at 3V with my Pro iCan. The higher the voltage setting give you more volume output from what I can tell.  I use 3 volts and control the volume with the Pro iCan. Chord's DACs really pair well with the Pro iCan. The Chord and iFi pairing really gives you insight into the music. It's transparent, clear, powerful and dynamic all at the same time. But what I'm missing is a little musicality, which is why I'm really considering the Pro iDSD. Sure I'll be giving up some transparency and sacrificing some detail but I'll gain a balanced connection and a little infusion of warmth in my music. Either way the Pro iCan is the centerpiece of it all. I love this versatile amp.



but what would ifi recommend, a 2v or 3v, as in the chord qutest thread they mostly use 2 v when connected to an amp


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> but what would ifi recommend, a 2v or 3v, as in the chord qutest thread they mostly use 2 v when connected to an amp


Good question, hopefully iFi can chime in with a recommendation. Although I haven't had any issues at 3 volts it would be nice to know if I'm pushing the limit.


----------



## Sound Eq

Slim1970 said:


> Good question, hopefully iFi can chime in with a recommendation. Although I haven't had any issues at 3 volts it would be nice to know if I'm pushing the limit.



its way better if ifi can chime in, hope @iFi audio chimes in, if a 2V or 3V output from a dac is prefered into the ifi ican pro


----------



## dwqdd

tried once


----------



## iFi audio (Oct 29, 2018)

Sound Eq said:


> its way better if ifi can chime in, hope @iFi audio chimes in, if a 2V or 3V output from a dac is prefered into the ifi ican pro



Since a product by other manufacturer is involved, we can't comment. It's best to ask this manufacturer. What we'll say though is this:

http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=222

Also, quality of the signal is what counts. Pro iCAN will work with what it receives.


----------



## iamdman

Hello,

I just got my ifi pro ican unit and have to say it makes my HD800s sing esp with Xbass on 10hz! I had no idea I can toe-tap with my HS800s listening to my music collection 

I noticed something as I was moving my unit across the room when I happened to flip the unit ; volume knob was facing ground and as moved it across I like flipped it so the volume knob ended up now facing the ceiling and I heard a faint sort of noise inside the unit. The best I could describe is it sounded like a lose switch moving across and I could repeat that every time. Is that common? The unit seem to be operating fine otherwise but having paid that much $$$ I am just making sure it aint gonna be a problem down the lane if not now.

Appreciate any inputs!

Thanks
Andy


----------



## iamdman

iamdman said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just got my ifi pro ican unit and have to say it makes my HD800s sing esp with Xbass on 10hz! I had no idea I can toe-tap with my HS800s listening to my music collection
> 
> ...



UPDATE: I found the nose to be from the small glass dome on top of the amp. It seem to have some slight movement and that was causing the noise when the unit was flipped and nothing internally which is good. I assume this is common and can any iFI PRO CAN owner please confirm that? Confirm that the glass part at the top of the unit has some "slight" movement as you move it with your finger?

Thanks


----------



## gto88

Not on my unit, the dome glass is fixed, no movement at all.


----------



## iamdman

gto88 said:


> Not on my unit, the dome glass is fixed, no movement at all.


Thanks for the info. 

I had raised this with ifi and they acknowledged it shouldn’t be moving as well. They offered me to have it exchanged by them or send replacement part and instructions to fix it myself. I don’t know if I wanna mess around opening so might just have it replaced. Like their excellent customer service!


----------



## iFi audio

iamdman said:


> Like their excellent customer service!



Good to know, thank you for nice words!

Also folks, this is what we do this weekend:



 

If you're around, please come and say hi!


----------



## iFi audio

Yup, HXOS and Athens are awesome!


----------



## iFi audio

Folks, below you'll find some feedback we got from visitors during the AVS show, enjoy!


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Dec 12, 2018)

I saw that some lucky users are pairing the ifi Ican Pro with a hugo2. ... given that the hugo2 has its own very good amp section, what would this add? Or in other words, is the additional device making such a huge difference to justify the expense (and clutter)?


----------



## Slim1970

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I saw that some lucky users are pairing the ifi Ican Pro with a hugo2. ... given that the hugo2 has its own very good amp section, what would this add? Or in other words, is the additional device making such a huge difference to justify the expense (and clutter)?


Power. As good as the Hugo 2 is at driving most headphones it's output is limited. Demanding headphones like the Susvara, HE-6/se, and Abyss Phi's sound their best when driven with more power. Using the Hugo 2 as my DAC feeding my Pro iCan I find that it sounds sonically superior than using the Hugo 2 alone with those headphones. My Utopia's, Z1R's and LCD-2CB's sound amazing out of the Hugo 2 alone. So depending on what headphones you have in your collection you can choose to live with the Hugo 2 alone. For me, I love having the power and feature set of the Pro iCan on hand.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Slim1970 said:


> Power. As good as the Hugo 2 is at driving most headphones it's output is limited. Demanding headphones like the Susvara, HE-6/se, and Abyss Phi's sound their best when driven with more power. Using the Hugo 2 as my DAC feeding my Pro iCan I find that it sounds sonically superior than using the Hugo 2 alone with those headphones. My Utopia's, Z1R's and LCD-2CB's sound amazing out of the Hugo 2 alone. So depending on what headphones you have in your collection you can choose to live with the Hugo 2 alone. For me, I love having the power and feature set of the Pro iCan on hand.



This is immensely helpful! Given the stuff I own, I think only my HD800S would benefit sufficiently to justify the expense (and for those occasions, I have my ifi Micro BL)... 
Thank you for this information.


----------



## Slim1970

Hoegaardener70 said:


> This is immensely helpful! Given the stuff I own, I think only my HD800S would benefit sufficiently to justify the expense (and for those occasions, I have my ifi Micro BL)...
> Thank you for this information.


I owned the Micro iDSD BL and it is a great amp. I had to get rid of it so that I could use my Pro iCan more, it was that good to me. Saying that, the Pro iCan is better in all regards. It's cleaner sounding, has better dynamics, images better, has more features and is more refined when compare to the Micro iDSD BL. I never heard the HD800S's sound as good as they did coming out of the Pro iCan. All they needed was the first setting on the XBass+ dial and the sub bass came alive. I use the same setting with the Utopia's. The Pro iCan is definitely a worthy upgrade is you chose to go that route.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Slim1970 said:


> The Pro iCan is definitely a worthy upgrade is you chose to go that route.



Thanks - I am sure, but since I just got a Hugo2, I probably should hold back for a while .

In case I don't, all my cables have a 2.5mm balanced ending for my Q2PR, I'd need an adapter for the balance output of the 
ifi ican. Do any users here use an adapter such as this one? 
https://www.amazon.com/Geekria-Bala...8-10&keywords=adapter+2.5mm+to+3.5mm+balanced


----------



## tekkster

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I saw that some lucky users are pairing the ifi Ican Pro with a hugo2. ... given that the hugo2 has its own very good amp section, what would this add? Or in other words, is the additional device making such a huge difference to justify the expense (and clutter)?



You lose a wee bit of microdetail, but gain a lot of power, plus, of course, the XLR connection, balanced connection, and a bass boost.

I pair the H2 with iFi iCan Pro sometimes for kicks, but my daily is really the RME ADI-2 DAC to the the iFi iCan Pro, which to me is a great pairing and good enough to have a whole lot of fun with a variety of different headphones.


----------



## kj510

Dear iFi Audio,

Could you tell me the polarity of the iPower Plus AC adapter?  Mine is Ver.1.2 with 2 pins IEC 320 so there is no sign of polarity.
Please advice.

Thank you,


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi there, I am a bit confused ... is the Ican Pro identical with the amp part of the ifi audio pro idsd?

I am actually really mainly interested in the Ican's SS and tube circuits, but the idsd has a balanced 2.5mm which I'd like to use. I got an adapter on massdrop (XLR to 2.5mm balanced) but I doubt it is the same....


----------



## hedron00

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi there, I am a bit confused ... is the Ican Pro identical with the amp part of the ifi audio pro idsd?
> 
> I am actually really mainly interested in the Ican's SS and tube circuits, but the idsd has a balanced 2.5mm which I'd like to use. I got an adapter on massdrop (XLR to 2.5mm balanced) but I doubt it is the same....



No, Pro iCAN has better and more powerful amp. 
I have Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN. 
Pro iCAN makes better sonic quality with Pro iDSD. 

I recommend use it together.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

hedron00 said:


> No, Pro iCAN has better and more powerful amp.
> I have Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN.
> Pro iCAN makes better sonic quality with Pro iDSD.
> 
> I recommend use it together.



Oooh! But I can only get one at the moment. Since I have a Hugo2, am inclined to get the iCan then. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Rayzilla

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Oooh! But I can only get one at the moment. Since I have a Hugo2, am inclined to get the iCan then. Thanks a lot!


You won't be disappointed. I am using the Hugo (original) as the dac with my Pro iCan to my HE6. I have the double tube setting and the HE6 sounds so nice with a lot of body and fullness. I thought about upgrading to the Hugo2 but for the dac alone, I wasn't sure if it was worth the investment. I don't need it for portable use since I am very happy with my DX200 with multiple amp modules to cater to the flavour I want at the time. 

Let us know how it works out for you.


----------



## tekkster

I dunno about the iDSD Pro, but I connect the H2 to the iCan Pro sometimes, and it's great.

Most often, I prefer the RME ADI-2 DAC to the iCan Pro, but the H2 definitely sounds impressive.


----------



## Slim1970

The Hugo 2 and the Pro iCan are great together. It’s my preferred way of listening to my Pro iCan at moment. I’ve tried iDSD BL, the ESS DAC out of the Burson Conductor V2+, the Mojo, and some others DAC’s. But I like the way Chord products sound with my Pro iCan. I really want to hear the Pro iDSD and Pro iCan pairing. That way I can go balanced and have a permanent desktop solution. But I’m really interested is hearing how the Pro iDSD compares with the Hugo 2 in my system.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

hedron00 said:


> No, Pro iCAN has better and more powerful amp.
> I have Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN.
> Pro iCAN makes better sonic quality with Pro iDSD.
> 
> I recommend use it together.




One short question please - if you'd have to chose for headphones up to 300ohms ONLY, which one would you take? 
Thanks so much!


----------



## LoryWiv

Hoegaardener70 said:


> One short question please - if you'd have to chose for headphones up to 300ohms ONLY, which one would you take?
> Thanks so much!


I pair my Pro iCan with ZMF Auteur's, 300 ohms….fantastic combination.


----------



## tekkster

Hoegaardener70 said:


> One short question please - if you'd have to chose for headphones up to 300ohms ONLY, which one would you take?
> Thanks so much!



Tough call.  The ican pro works so well with so many headphone.  At 300 ohms and below my personal favorite is hd800.  The bass boost on the ican pro is great for the hd800.  I like the utopias out of the ican pro too, but the hd800 provides a grander, wider feel.

Though, my absolute favorite is not within the range you specify.  For a long time i was a tad iffy on the beyer t1’s at 600 ohms.  They sat on the shelf a lot, out of rotation.  The Ican pro, even using the lower power 1/4 inch port, brings the t1’s to life in a way that nothing else i have can match.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Slim1970 said:


> I use my Hugo 2 at 3V with my Pro iCan. The higher the voltage setting give you more volume output from what I can tell.  I use 3 volts and control the volume with the Pro iCan. Chord's DACs really pair well with the Pro iCan. The Chord and iFi pairing really gives you insight into the music.



I plan to pair my iCan with the Hugo2 and/or if's micro BL... still need to decide. In any case, how to do you best connect the Hugo2? Simple RCA cable (and is this included with the iCan)? 
Thanks


----------



## tekkster

Simple rca to rca.  There is one included but it’s really short.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

So, I finally bit the bullet and got an ifi iCan Pro. And even though it was full price, I am very happy with it! Initially, I was not sure if the investment is worth it given that my Hugo2 has a quite good amp. But as a summary, the iCan Pro brings out the best in my headphones. With XBass on full and in tube mode, the HD800S sounds FINALLY as I ever hoped it would - full bassy sound with this glorious soundstage and not harsh at all. The Utopias need only a minor Xbass boost but greatly benefit from the 3D enhancement and are stellar on tube+. Because of my desk setup, I can only use the micro BL as DAC but it sounds great as is.


----------



## Slim1970

Hoegaardener70 said:


> So, I finally bit the bullet and got an ifi iCan Pro. And even though it was full price, I am very happy with it! Initially, I was not sure if the investment is worth it given that my Hugo2 has a quite good amp. But as a summary, the iCan Pro brings out the best in my headphones. With XBass on full and in tube mode, the HD800S sounds FINALLY as I ever hoped it would - full bassy sound with this glorious soundstage and not harsh at all. The Utopias need only a minor Xbass boost but greatly benefit from the 3D enhancement and are stellar on tube+. Because of my desk setup, I can only use the micro BL as DAC but it sounds great as is.


Your findings echo what I thought about the HD800S’s and Utopia’s with the Pro iCan. The HD800S’s just needed those last sub bass frequencies and they sound like a completely different headphone. The Pro iCan is an amazingly flexible amp that works with any headphone in my opinion.


----------



## Sound Eq

i want to ask, i find big difference in clarity and details between balanced and single ended, do you have the same finding, i know balanced gives out more power, so i do volume matching between balanced and non balanced


----------



## tonyo442

Hello, first of all, I wish you all the music lovers and audiophiles of this site, .....
i have the iFi pro ican, a french company was able to manufacture a specific power supply for ifi pro ican, and because these people also sell all iFi pro equipment,
so I could try the new diet on the ifi pro, and it's true that the restitution is different is better, my question, is what the study office of ifi pro has planned, out an independent power supply, so that I can know if I have to wait and how long,

my tests were done with a lcd4 Audeze, so on classical music listening to masses, requiems, everything is lyrics, external power, the setting is 0 db, the harmonics are more beautiful, I gain in width of scene, and precision, thank you


----------



## Rayzilla

Tacanacy said:


> Has anyone used the iCan with K1000?
> iFi advertises that it can drive K1000, but I came across someone who said that it easily shuts off (0% XBass, 0% 3D crossover, 0% gain at 12 o'clock on the volume knob) when listening to songs with high dynamic range with K1000.
> 
> And, is anyone able to compare the SE output to Lyr 2 or R2R 11?


Did a search on this thread and this was the only post to raise the idea of pairing up the Pro iCan with the AKG K1000. Can anyone comment on their experience with this combination?

Or even if you have not, I'm not a techie, would you be able to explain what could be the issue here?

Thanks


----------



## bluesaint

Had Fun rolling out the stock 80's GE JAN 5670W for true early 1950's GE JG 5670 WA that has Triple Mica design and Square D-Getters.  Much superior to the stock newer O getter double mica.  As this is my spare ican pro and out of warranty it was easy enough to do.  Truly opens up the potential of ican pro more.  My main iCan pro i'll swap in vintage 1950's Western Electric JW 2C51 D getters to see how those sound as well!

*Stock:






NEW:




*


----------



## betula

I am testing the Pro iCAN with the Pro iDSD these days. I am impressed by the dynamism, control, details, extension etc. but I miss life from the sound. Especially vocals/mids just sound recessed and lifeless compared to other similarly priced amps. Other technicalities however like dynamism and control are outstanding. I find this to be an analytically perfect amp but having hard time to connect emotionally to the music with them.
How much this can be improved with other tubes?


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 8, 2019)

betula said:


> I am testing the Pro iCAN with the Pro iDSD these days. I am impressed by the dynamism, control, details, extension etc. but I miss life from the sound. Especially vocals/mids just sound recessed and lifeless compared to other similarly priced amps. Other technicalities however like dynamism and control are outstanding. I find this to be an analytically perfect amp but having hard time to connect emotionally to the music with them.
> How much this can be improved with other tubes?



do you mean its the drawback of the amp or the ifi dsd pro

i sold my ifi ican pro, then regretted it, and now I am in search for a new amp,  but to honest, at time I felt the same with ifi ican pro, that it lacked bit details, so my next amp must be more musical and better details, I am looking for an amp that is great price/performance and that works great with audeze cans, and was considering maybe an r2r amp, so the search is on


----------



## betula

Sound Eq said:


> do you mean its the drawback of the amp or the ifi dsd pro
> 
> i sold my ifi ican pro, then regretted it, and now I am in search for a new amp


I think it is the iCan. The Pro iDSD is an exceptional DAC but there is as good or even better sound for less than £2400. 
The iDSD's amp section is nowhere near as good as the iCAN. What I said was about the iCAN as an amp.


----------



## bluesaint

betula said:


> I am testing the Pro iCAN with the Pro iDSD these days. I am impressed by the dynamism, control, details, extension etc. but I miss life from the sound. Especially vocals/mids just sound recessed and lifeless compared to other similarly priced amps. Other technicalities however like dynamism and control are outstanding. I find this to be an analytically perfect amp but having hard time to connect emotionally to the music with them.
> How much this can be improved with other tubes?




Just like how many people rave about tube rolling in Liquid Platinum, Rolling tubes in iCan makes a very noticeable change. Even more so for iCan because it can operate in PURE tube mode and not hybrid like LP.   It's anything but lifeless with better tubes


----------



## Sound Eq

betula said:


> I think it is the iCan. The Pro iDSD is an exceptional DAC but there is as good or even better sound for less than £2400.
> The iDSD's amp section is nowhere near as good as the iCAN. What I said was about the iCAN as an amp.



well for 2400 usd I will prefer to stick with my qutest then, and just look for another amp then, if the ifi dsd pro is not an all in one unit


----------



## betula

Sound Eq said:


> well for 2400 usd I will prefer to stick with my qutest then, and just look for another amp then, if the ifi dsd pro is not an all in one unit


I agree. The Pro iDSD is an awesome sounding DAC but you pay a lot for dozens of features you may never use. I actually prefer the sound of my Qutest too.


----------



## betula

bluesaint said:


> Just like how many people rave about tube rolling in Liquid Platinum, Rolling tubes in iCan makes a very noticeable change. Even more so for iCan because it can operate in PURE tube mode and not hybrid like LP.   It's anything but lifeless with better tubes


I didn't like the LP at all. Sure, it is a nice and polite sound but compared to higher-end amps the sound is lean and bass performance is weak overall. I can imagine the iCAN benefits more of better tubes than the LP. But tube rolling with the iCAN is a bit finicky. To be fair I prefer the sound of the much cheaper CMA600i. Not as tight and controlled as the iCAN but liquid smooth and sweet and alive.


----------



## dcguy73

bluesaint said:


> Had Fun rolling out the stock 80's GE JAN 5670W for true early 1950's GE JG 5670 WA that has Triple Mica design and Square D-Getters.  Much superior to the stock newer O getter double mica.  As this is my spare ican pro and out of warranty it was easy enough to do.  Truly opens up the potential of ican pro more.  My main iCan pro i'll swap in vintage 1950's Western Electric JW 2C51 D getters to see how those sound as well!



Wow, really nice pics! I'm happy you found some great-sounding tubes. As I've said before, the true potential of the iCan Pro shows itself when you upgrade the tubes.


----------



## youurayy

betula said:


> I am testing the Pro iCAN with the Pro iDSD these days. I am impressed by the dynamism, control, details, extension etc. but I miss life from the sound. Especially vocals/mids just sound recessed and lifeless compared to other similarly priced amps. Other technicalities however like dynamism and control are outstanding. I find this to be an analytically perfect amp but having hard time to connect emotionally to the music with them.
> How much this can be improved with other tubes?



tubes lose control imo, try DSD512 upsample on the iDSD


----------



## RustyGates (Feb 10, 2019)

Selling my Pro iCAN for those who are interested, just need to condense my collection.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-pro-ican-hardly-used-australian-shipping-inclusive.899721/


----------



## Dan Lee

Hi guys, hoping I can get a little help and understanding here as I am by no means tech savy.  I have the ican pro and this thing gets crazy hot which I understand to be relatively normal if you run it in tube or tube+ mode but I always run it in solid state mode as I prefer the clarity that SS offers over tube warmth.  Also I find that my ican has a common tendency to go into safety mode relatively easy.  I am not sure what I am doing wrong to cause this or if my unit is defective.  I read the faq page on ifi and they talk about to much current and other things I dont understand.  This thing is supposed have 14 watts on tap so I dont know  how I could possibly be approaching that number to cause safety mode to engage.  I occasionally use bass boost at 1 notch and 3d at 3 to 4 notchs from time to time but I would think that using low impedance headphones like the Utopias or slightly higher with LCD-4 that shouldnt cause so many drop outs.  

Am I missing something or just not understanding?  Is it simply a DC current issue like ifi suggests in the faq and if so how do I control that so I can take advantage of this units features and power?

Thanks for any help you can provide guys.


----------



## Slim1970

Dan Lee said:


> Hi guys, hoping I can get a little help and understanding here as I am by no means tech savy.  I have the ican pro and this thing gets crazy hot which I understand to be relatively normal if you run it in tube or tube+ mode but I always run it in solid state mode as I prefer the clarity that SS offers over tube warmth.  Also I find that my ican has a common tendency to go into safety mode relatively easy.  I am not sure what I am doing wrong to cause this or if my unit is defective.  I read the faq page on ifi and they talk about to much current and other things I dont understand.  This thing is supposed have 14 watts on tap so I dont know  how I could possibly be approaching that number to cause safety mode to engage.  I occasionally use bass boost at 1 notch and 3d at 3 to 4 notchs from time to time but I would think that using low impedance headphones like the Utopias or slightly higher with LCD-4 that shouldnt cause so many drop outs.
> 
> Am I missing something or just not understanding?  Is it simply a DC current issue like ifi suggests in the faq and if so how do I control that so I can take advantage of this units features and power?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide guys.


That’s not normal for it to go into shutdown/safety mode so easily. My Pro iCan gets warm but this normal behavior for class A amps. I would submit a support ticket with iFi


----------



## Dan Lee

Thanks, thats what I thought just wanted to see if I was missing something.


----------



## iFi audio

Dan Lee said:


> Thanks, thats what I thought just wanted to see if I was missing something.



Hey there Dan,
If you've opened a support ticket, I'm sure our guys are helping you but I just thought I'd drop this in here. 

Just curious, do you use a 3.5mm connection and plug the headphone in with an SE connection 3.5mm TRS jack into the balanced output? This could lead to what you actually describe. Generally if the Pro iCAN goes into protection mode, it is an indication that something is wired or potentially connected wrongly. 

Normal sensitivity headphones (e.g. Audeze or Focal Utopia's) should be connected using at least 6.3mm connections, and it's better to use  XLR-4 or Dual XLR for balanced connections. Don't use 3.5mm connections as these have a -18dB iEMatch fixed, so the levels will be low - this is intended for super sensitivity IEM's (e.g. Campfire Andromeda).

Also, a word of advice never connect SE 3.5mm plugs to the connector marked BAL. It will mess up the sound and cause protection circuitry to trigger more readily.

I hope this helps? Let us know how you get on. Thanks.


----------



## Dan Lee

iFi audio said:


> Hey there Dan,
> If you've opened a support ticket, I'm sure our guys are helping you but I just thought I'd drop this in here.
> 
> Just curious, do you use a 3.5mm connection and plug the headphone in with an SE connection 3.5mm TRS jack into the balanced output? This could lead to what you actually describe. Generally if the Pro iCAN goes into protection mode, it is an indication that something is wired or potentially connected wrongly.
> ...


I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me.  I have opened a ticket but havent heard back but could be up to 3 days on website and its only been a day and a half so not worried about that.  I run all of my headphones with a 4 pin xlr cable.  That being said I may well have hooked something up incorrectly or have a setting that is not set correctly.  I just dont know what that might be yet.  I plug all three devices into a furman power conditioner as well but I suppose its possible that the conditioner could be the issue as well.  I absolutely love the system and all its features.  For me this setup is my end game, I just want to get it all working correctly.  

Thank you again for taking the time to help me out a little here.  I really appreciate that.
Dan Moser


----------



## betula

My take on the Pro iCAN. Thanks iFi!


----------



## iFi audio

betula said:


> My take on the Pro iCAN. Thanks iFi!



Thanks!


----------



## LoryWiv

betula said:


> My take on the Pro iCAN. Thanks iFi!



Appreciated your excellent review and especially wanted to concur that of the 3 modes, Tube mode strikes the best balance between speed / detail retrieval and non-fatiguing musicality. There is a caveat: although tube mode is my overall listening preference, I find the soundstage and imaging is less satisfying than SS. Using the 1st setting of 3D does widen the stage but sounds a bit unnatural.

Wondering in general if that is inherent to tube amp. versus solid state, or unique to the Pro iCAN. I've read some material indicating imaging and stage as _advantages_ of tube design, so I wanted to ask the question as that's not how I hear the Pro iCAN in it's different modes.


----------



## betula

LoryWiv said:


> Appreciated your excellent review and especially wanted to concur that of the 3 modes, Tube mode strikes the best balance between speed / detail retrieval and non-fatiguing musicality. There is a caveat: although tube mode is my overall listening preference, I find the soundstage and imaging is less satisfying than SS. Using the 1st setting of 3D does widen the stage but sounds a bit unnatural.
> 
> Wondering in general if that is inherent to tube amp. versus solid state, or unique to the Pro iCAN. I've read some material indicating imaging and stage as _advantages_ of tube design, so I wanted to ask the question as that's not how I hear the Pro iCAN in it's different modes.


Thanks for the kind words! In my experience soundstage and imaging does not depend on the design (tube vs SS). I have heard very spacious SS amps with great imaging and claustrophobic tube amps and vice versa. I would say these qualities are manufacturer and model dependent, regardless if we are talking about SS or tube amps.


----------



## dcguy73

I have come to appreciate the iCan Pro a lot more after I upgraded my headphones from the Hifiman HEKv2 to the HEKse. The HEKse sound like a hybrid between the HEKv2 and the Focal Clear, providing incredible clarity at the cost of some of the v2's soundstage.  I used to prefer the iCan Pro's tube and tube plus modes the most, but with the new focus of my HEKse, I now think the solid-state mode sounds the best. The iCan Pro's SS mode has a very clean and full-bodied sound that I didn't "get" before the headphones upgrade. I still appreciate the iCan Pro's tube and tube plus modes for particular music genres, but the SS mode is now my default.


----------



## Sound Eq

@iFi audio greetings i lost my external box of ifi ican pro and all what comes with it, is there a way to get the box and all the accessories that come with the ifi ican pro , i do not need the remote control or rca


----------



## iFi audio

Sound Eq said:


> @iFi audio greetings i lost my external box of ifi ican pro and all what comes with it, is there a way to get the box and all the accessories that come with the ifi ican pro , i do not need the remote control or rca



We have no idea, but please shoot us a message to support@ifi-audio.com. If we can help, we will.


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## webmi (Apr 2, 2019)

Thinking about upgrading my iCAN with two of these babys. Saw that two part teardown video on YT. To open the iCAN up i have to remove all the screws on the backside, but i guess i dont have to remove the buttons on the front, like he did in that teardown video, i am right? I dont think ifi can provide a guide for rolling tubes with ican pro, can you?

I wonder if these tubes sound like i hope they sound. By going from SS to Tube (with stock tubes) i notice there is lost a lot of details and resolution. Can someone tell if these tubes are that good? How much better are these tubes compared to stock tubes and how do they compare to SS only?

I really like that tube sound, but i am missing details with stock tubes. If these tubes really sound a lot better then stock, i am willing to pay good money. But i am not sure if they can get to SS level of detail and if its worth it.


----------



## bluesaint (Apr 2, 2019)

webmi said:


> Thinking about upgrading my iCAN with two of these babys. Saw that two part teardown video on YT. To open the iCAN up i have to remove all the screws on the backside, but i guess i dont have to remove the buttons on the front, like he did in that teardown video, i am right? I dont think ifi can provide a guide for rolling tubes with ican pro, can you?
> 
> I wonder if these tubes sound like i hope they sound. By going from SS to Tube (with stock tubes) i notice there is lost a lot of details and resolution. Can someone tell if these tubes are that good? How much better are these tubes compared to stock tubes and how do they compare to SS only?
> 
> I really like that tube sound, but i am missing details with stock tubes. If these tubes really sound a lot better then stock, i am willing to pay good money. But i am not sure if they can get to SS level of detail and if its worth it.



If you want more details from your tubes we396a is the wrong way.   They are the warmest and fullest sounding tubes you can get while not suffering details.

Bendix 6385 is king of details.  They are extremely hard to find.   The stock GE is already considered to be on the slightly harsh and detail side of things already.   You can upgrade to the NOS GE triple mica 1950s.  They are a direct upgrade over stock 1980s GE in all ways without changing tonal balance.


----------



## webmi (Apr 2, 2019)

Thanks for that info. The we396A is the wrong way? Huh! For my understanding and what i have read, these should be the "the best"?! Please dont tell me i have to spend way more then WE396A money... please...

My "problem" with stock tube is, when i go from ss to tube, with the LCD-X i immediately can hear what is lost in the treble and there is lost quite a bit. I like tubes for what they do. I dont care if they change the sounds character. I even like it when they are warmer/fuller, thats what they should do. With stock tubes i immediately notice quite a big change in soundstage for example, which i really like. I like what they do to the sound in terms of soundcharacter. The problem here is, when i use tubes on the iCAN by switching from ss to tube/tube+ while listening to a song, i then quite fast go back to ss, since the sound is a lot more detailed in this mode. I want to use tubes, but compared to ss, i very often just cant. So my problem with stock tubes is what is lost in the treble/details. Feels like going from a really good recording to a bad recording, by only going from ss to tube/tube++, yet it is the same recording. I dont know if one can understand what i am trying to describe here. Quality is lost, thats the point.

If i can get the quality ss provides without losing anything in terms of details by changing the stock tubes, i will void warranty and roll some tubes. I love tubes. I hate what is lost with stock tubes compare to ss.

So if anyone can tell me what tubes exactly i should use to get what i want (tuby sound without losing details and resolution compared to ss), i will do it (probably).

In the end, the result should be "a different sound", not "worse in quality". Is this even possible without spending to much money on tubes? With stock tubes i get a feeling on missing something and thats not what i like to experience when activating tubes on the iCAN.

By the way, its the same on the iDSD. By going tube/tube+ mode on the iDSD (with iCAN in solid state), i also have this: "i lose to much" feeling. Yet it is only by a very small bit less of a lose, like it is on the iCAN, but that could have a number of reasons. The iCAN could smoothe things out, as i could image. Could because of the "different" tubes in the iDSD. But the difference comparing iDSD@ss with iCAN@tube to iDSD@tube with iCAN@ss is very small.

In both settings, yet you can clearly hear what is added by the tubes, you can also hear what is lost. Therefore in most of the time i use both iCAN and iDSD in solid state, which is kind of sad to me, since i generally like the character of tubes.

When i go tube on both, the iCAN and the iDSD, things seems to just add up. I get a really really tuby sound, it like it very much, but at the same time, the downside is adding up aswell.

My plan is, finding a tube and at first only "test" or repleace them in the iCAN and if i like it, may be going for the same pair on the iDSD. (May be testing a different pair of tubes in the iDSD later. Would be cool to have different tubes, different charakters in iDSDs or iCANs tubes.)

At this point i only can imagine by reading threads like this, what tubes i should go for (btw i have flyn over the hole thread and looked for post with this kind of matter already). There are ppl who have experience in rolling tubes in the iCAN. But i am not sure if it is even always a sacrifice compared to ss. Spending 300€ for a pair, voiding warranty and then still dont getting that solid state kind of quality, is something that bothers me.


----------



## bluesaint

webmi said:


> Thanks for that info. The we396A is the wrong way? Huh! For my understanding and what i have read, these should be the "the best"?! Please dont tell me i have to spend way more then WE396A money... please...
> 
> My "problem" with stock tube is, when i go from ss to tube, with the LCD-X i immediately can hear what is lost in the treble and there is lost quite a bit. I like tubes for what they do. I dont care if they change the sounds character. I even like it when they are warmer/fuller, thats what they should do. With stock tubes i immediately notice quite a big change in soundstage for example, which i really like. I like what they do to the sound in terms of soundcharacter. The problem here is, when i use tubes on the iCAN by switching from ss to tube/tube+ while listening to a song, i then quite fast go back to ss, since the sound is a lot more detailed in this mode. I want to use tubes, but compared to ss, i very often just cant. So my problem with stock tubes is what is lost in the treble/details. Feels like going from a really good recording to a bad recording, by only going from ss to tube/tube++, yet it is the same recording. I dont know if one can understand what i am trying to describe here. Quality is lost, thats the point.
> 
> ...



SS will almost always be perceived as having better detail. And it has more to do with the way we process details under the psychoacoustic hearing model.  ie. Tubes due to their second order distortion (harmonic distortion) being higher than SS, means notes decay are typically more impactful where SS has less notes decay impact.  What this translate to, is in complex audio passages, tubes will be perceived as having less detail because the same note sequence in SS would have the decay attenuated already.


----------



## Dan Lee

Anyone running the susvara with their ican and if so how does it sound.  I am lovin my lcd 4 with it but considering getting a susvara to go with it.  @bluesaint u may have some insight here for me


----------



## bluesaint

Dan Lee said:


> Anyone running the susvara with their ican and if so how does it sound.  I am lovin my lcd 4 with it but considering getting a susvara to go with it.  @bluesaint u may have some insight here for me


Yeah i compared susvara out of entire pro stack and then swap out the amp for soundaware p1, and the p1 by a comfortable margin made the susvara sound better immediately.  Not saying ican is bad, but the synergy just isnt there.  Then I compared susvara vs. $3k speaker amp out of iesl, and this setup blows p1 away


----------



## Skooks

May I jump in here for a few thoughts? Thanks!

I have tried the ifi iCan Pro and several other amps driving my Audeze LCD3F's... both a 2 year old edition and now an edition that just came out that can be identified by the lightweight headband that has perforations... and I can tell you, once I got a Schiit Mjolnir 2 with the right tubes, my search was over! I'm telling you guys that this relatively inexpensive amp by Schiit has the right stuff under the hood... don't be fooled because it's so cheap... or made by Schiit.


----------



## tonyo442

hello, some owners of ifi pro ican have tried to adjust + 18 db instead of + 9 db, I have the Audeze lcd4, I think I have gained in width of scene, with a little more realism, better separation, and especially without losing information or micro information, as with some power amp that bring light background noise, and loss of transparency, ....


----------



## Sound Eq

bluesaint said:


> If you want more details from your tubes we396a is the wrong way.   They are the warmest and fullest sounding tubes you can get while not suffering details.
> 
> Bendix 6385 is king of details.  They are extremely hard to find.   The stock GE is already considered to be on the slightly harsh and detail side of things already.   You can upgrade to the NOS GE triple mica 1950s.  They are a direct upgrade over stock 1980s GE in all ways without changing tonal balance.


hi is changing tubes easy like plug and play

can you link to great tubes upgrades from where to buy


----------



## Sound Eq

bluesaint said:


> Yeah i compared susvara out of entire pro stack and then swap out the amp for soundaware p1, and the p1 by a comfortable margin made the susvara sound better immediately.  Not saying ican is bad, but the synergy just isnt there.  Then I compared susvara vs. $3k speaker amp out of iesl, and this setup blows p1 away


wow, amazing setups


----------



## bluesaint

Sound Eq said:


> hi is changing tubes easy like plug and play
> 
> can you link to great tubes upgrades from where to buy


yeah, takes me 5min to swap tubes.  tools you'll need:

Torx T10: to remove the screws from xlr,rca connectors
Torx T15: to remove the 4 large case screws
Hardened plastic tweezer / cell phone case pryer: to lightly pry the tubes pins out slightly from the socket so you can lightly wiggle back and forth in a controlled pulling motion

It's that simple.  common sense on how much strength, and orientation of pins when placing new ones in, etc..  while it's not hard, couple caveats:

If you are still in warranty, then this would void your warranty
don't be overly nervous, but don't be careless


----------



## Dan Lee

Skooks said:


> May I jump in here for a few thoughts? Thanks!
> 
> I have tried the ifi iCan Pro and several other amps driving my Audeze LCD3F's... both a 2 year old edition and now an edition that just came out that can be identified by the lightweight headband that has perforations... and I can tell you, once I got a Schiit Mjolnir 2 with the right tubes, my search was over! I'm telling you guys that this relatively inexpensive amp by Schiit has the right stuff under the hood... don't be fooled because it's so cheap... or made by Schiit.



This just goes to show how different each individual's preferred sounds are.  I had a Mjolnir 2 with the Gungnir Multibit for a long time and had found the perfect tubes for my taste to run with it.  Though I absolutely loved the sound of it when I heard the iCAN's solid state ability run through the Gungnir I was blown away by the added clarity and sharpened treble without being shrill.  I do still miss the sound of the tubes from time to time, but the iCAN tube socket makes use of my favorite tubes which I still own and will eventually swap into this unit.  For now I will continue to enjoy the solid state portion and occasionally the GE tubes which certainly aren't bad, they just lack a more "tubey" sound.  

I liked the WE396A's and was impressed by the bass response added to the MJ2, but ultimately I ended up preferring the sound of a pair of tubes that for all intents and purposes aren't supposed to sound better.  They have OTK stamped on them and If I'm not mistaken I was given them for free when I purchased the WE's or a pair of Siemens tubes.  I wish I knew what they were, but in my mind they are probably some bloody factory defect pair that wasn't meant to work as well as they did or the MJ2 for whatever reason just turned them into something else.  @bluesaint actually took the WE's I had off my hands.  I had purchased them from another guy on here who we both happened to know.  Shows how little I know about tubes I was selling them for an amount that was a bit to high thinking they were of a more preferable year or based on the price I had paid for the Siemens I had and just forgot about.  Saint helped me sort all that and I was happy to get them into the hands of someone who knew tubes as well as he does.

@bluesaint not sure why I haven't asked you about these other tubes yet, I am gonna send you a pic to see if you know what they are.


----------



## Dan Lee

Any of my fellow iCAN owners also own a KGSSHV or something similar?  If you do have you found a successful way to run it with your iCAN in the chain?


----------



## Sound Eq

hi, i just want to ask please when I use a headphone with a 4 pin balanced cable, is it advised that the source ( dac ) that is connected to ifi ican pro to be balanced as well, or using the source with rca instead will be the same

my question is if my source is connected to ifi ican pro via RCA is it better to use the single ended inputs on ifi ican pro than using the 4 pin balanced input


----------



## FiLoh

Sound Eq said:


> hi, i just want to ask please when I use a headphone with a 4 pin balanced cable, is it advised that the source ( dac ) that is connected to ifi ican pro to be balanced as well, or using the source with rca instead will be the same
> 
> my question is if my source is connected to ifi ican pro via RCA is it better to use the single ended inputs on ifi ican pro than using the 4 pin balanced input



I believe going balanced inputs into the pro would be recommended. If you can have a truly balanced input going in, I don't see why not  Maybe others can provide more insight.


----------



## Dan Lee

I dont think it matters if the source is connected via rca or xlr as that will just change which input you have to set it to.  The headphone XLR termination is solely affected by the amplifier itself.  So if you run the single ended headphone cable you are unable to take full advantage of the amplifiers power.  if you run the XLR cable you are recieving a balanced signal from the amplifier as far as the power that drives the headphone driver.  However you are recieving your audio signal via an unbalanced signal.  You may notice no difference at all if you used xlr interconnects vs RCA, but personally I believe true balanced XLR interconnects are the only way to go for the best signal path.  

So yes you should well be able to use rca for your dac to amp connection and still find benefit from using your XLR headphone cable.  Hope this helps.


----------



## LoryWiv (May 12, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> hi, i just want to ask please when I use a headphone with a 4 pin balanced cable, is it advised that the source ( dac ) that is connected to ifi ican pro to be balanced as well, or using the source with rca instead will be the same
> 
> my question is if my source is connected to ifi ican pro via RCA is it better to use the single ended inputs on ifi ican pro than using the 4 pin balanced input


If your DAC is balanced it makes sense to use it's balanced outputs to connect to the iCan Pro, then use a balanced headphone cable w/XLR 4-pin to output from the iCan Pro. This will provide a true balanced signal path at each step. If your DAC is not balanced there may not be any true difference, but it's still useful to output 4-pin from iCan Pro to your HP to increase power output, other potential advantages.


----------



## Dan Lee

By the by anyone looking for an iFi Pro iCAN I a gonna be letting mine go.  Ive gotten rather big into the electrostatics and my iCAN is being used as a bass booster for them right now which just doesnt seem fair to such an awesome.  If you are interested feel free to PM me.  Unit is only bout 6 months old and is already registered through iFi for the warranty.


----------



## bearwarrior

Has anyone tried iCan Pro as a preamp in a speaker setup? Any impressions or comparison?


----------



## hamachan

bearwarrior said:


> Has anyone tried iCan Pro as a preamp in a speaker setup? Any impressions or comparison?


I am using iCAN Pro for both headphone amp and preamp for speaker system.  It enhances more dynamics, depth, wider soundstage than solo use of the premain amp.  But my main objective to introduce iCAN Pro was tube sound.  I wanted to listen tube feel for legendary recordings since my premain amp does not have tube.  In addition, 3D switch in the iCAN Pro is also useful.  Dedicate 3D circuit for preamp mode is equipped which is independent from its for headphone.  See the ifi's website for detail.  It is very convenient for me because I cannot set up my speakers ideally since they are installed in the living room.


----------



## bearwarrior

hamachan said:


> I am using iCAN Pro for both headphone amp and preamp for speaker system.  It enhances more dynamics, depth, wider soundstage than solo use of the premain amp.  But my main objective to introduce iCAN Pro was tube sound.  I wanted to listen tube feel for legendary recordings since my premain amp does not have tube.  In addition, 3D switch in the iCAN Pro is also useful.  Dedicate 3D circuit for preamp mode is equipped which is independent from its for headphone.  See the ifi's website for detail.  It is very convenient for me because I cannot set up my speakers ideally since they are installed in the living room.



Thanks good to know. I wonder if you can hear some major differences when you use tube mode or SS mode.


----------



## hamachan

bearwarrior said:


> Thanks good to know. I wonder if you can hear some major differences when you use tube mode or SS mode.


Of course harmonics of the tube.  It is relatively milder effect than headphone but still nice feeling to my ear.  I am switching SS, tube and tube+ depending on the source or simply mood.


----------



## bearwarrior

hamachan said:


> Of course harmonics of the tube.  It is relatively milder effect than headphone but still nice feeling to my ear.  I am switching SS, tube and tube+ depending on the source or simply mood.



Thanks again. I guess my last question is about the comparison among some other good products, including Schiit Freya, PS audio BHK pre, Rogue audio RP-7, Benchmark, and so on. Since they are all differential balanced preamps, the topology might be a bit different. Have been searching for the comparison for a long time, very little review or impression mention this part. I guess most people just using iCan Pro as a headphone amp instead of a preamp.


----------



## hamachan

bearwarrior said:


> Thanks again. I guess my last question is about the comparison among some other good products, including Schiit Freya, PS audio BHK pre, Rogue audio RP-7, Benchmark, and so on. Since they are all differential balanced preamps, the topology might be a bit different. Have been searching for the comparison for a long time, very little review or impression mention this part. I guess most people just using iCan Pro as a headphone amp instead of a preamp.


Sorry but I do not have experience to compare other amps you mentioned.  I chose iCAN Pro straight forward because the onboard functions are suit for my purpose and I like ifi's sound in first place (I own ifi's DACs).  For preamp mode, the sound signature varies depending on your set up so I recommend you to try it if you can.

This review focuses to the preamp mode (It is written by Japanese. Use google translate).  I hope it helps you.
https://www.phileweb.com/news/audio/201608/01/17561.html


----------



## datasyd (Jun 17, 2019)

bearwarrior said:


> Has anyone tried iCan Pro as a preamp in a speaker setup? Any impressions or comparison?




I knew little of the potential benefits a pre-amp might offer in a fully integrated amp chain until I used my Pro iDSD/Pro iCAN rig (running Tidal FLAC/MQA or HQPlayer DSD) through my Denon 4520 home amp, connecting my MacBook Pro. In one word: astonishing. A system I have owned for a dozen years got a new lease on life. It did to my stereo what I had experienced through my headphones. In other words, it was completely transformational, bringing sound to life in a much more analogue way. Instruments become more present in your lounge room. The flute, for instance, in my DSD of Dire Straits -- Ride Across The River, seems to hypnotically fill the room. Should you dial up the XBASS your speakers will develop bass slam. The Pro iCAN is a capable pre-amp. And in a home stereo setup really does sound beautiful.

I took this pic to try convey the impact. It sounds as good as it looks.


----------



## bearwarrior

datasyd said:


> I knew little of the potential benefits a pre-amp might offer in a fully integrated amp chain until I used my Pro iDSD/Pro iCAN rig (running Tidal FLAC/MQA or HQPlayer DSD) through my Denon 4520 home amp, connecting my MacBook Pro. In one word: astonishing. A system I have owned for a dozen years got a new lease on life. It did to my stereo what I had experienced through my headphones. In other words, it was completely transformational, bringing sound to life in a much more analogue way. Instruments become more present in your lounge room. The flute, for instance, in my DSD of Dire Straits -- Ride Across The River, seems to hypnotically fill the room. Should you dial up the XBASS your speakers will develop bass slam. The Pro iCAN is a capable pre-amp. And in a home stereo setup really does sound beautiful.
> 
> I took this pic to try convey the impact. It sounds as good as it looks.



Nice. Great pic btw.


----------



## Rayzilla

datasyd said:


> I knew little of the potential benefits a pre-amp might offer in a fully integrated amp chain until I used my Pro iDSD/Pro iCAN rig (running Tidal FLAC/MQA or HQPlayer DSD) through my Denon 4520 home amp, connecting my MacBook Pro. In one word: astonishing. A system I have owned for a dozen years got a new lease on life. It did to my stereo what I had experienced through my headphones. In other words, it was completely transformational, bringing sound to life in a much more analogue way. Instruments become more present in your lounge room. The flute, for instance, in my DSD of Dire Straits -- Ride Across The River, seems to hypnotically fill the room. Should you dial up the XBASS your speakers will develop bass slam. The Pro iCAN is a capable pre-amp. And in a home stereo setup really does sound beautiful.
> 
> I took this pic to try convey the impact. It sounds as good as it looks.


After reading your post, I gave it a try, using the Pro iCAN as a preamp. Never thought about doing that before. 

I have my iMac going to the Gumby into the Pro iCAN into the Decware Mini Torii II. I set it on double tube mode but I don't think they are utilized when in Preamp mode. The sound coming out of the Decware seemed to lose the usual tuby sound that they normally let out. It was very clean but less tuby and analog to me. Maybe I need to give it a longer listen.


----------



## datasyd (Jun 18, 2019)

Rayzilla said:


> I set it on double tube mode but I don't think they are utilized when in Preamp mode.



That would really surprise me. I get distinctly different sounds depending on the mode, the  XBASS, the 3D, etc back screw of the DAC. Is the back screw of the Pro iDSD (sorry I assume you have this) set to Hifi Fixed or? How do you connect DAC (Pro iDSD) to Pre-Amp (Pro iCAN) I use 3-pin XLR. How do you connect pre-amp to stereo amp (I just use unbalanced out to the amp's Ext. In)? What is your  music source?


----------



## datasyd

I'm heading off to buy the Meze Empyrean...


----------



## Rayzilla

datasyd said:


> That would really surprise me. I get distinctly different sounds depending on the mode, the  XBASS, the 3D, etc back screw of the DAC. Is the back screw of the Pro iDSD (sorry I assume you have this) set to Hifi Fixed or? How do you connect DAC (Pro iDSD) to Pre-Amp (Pro iCAN) I use 3-pin XLR. How do you connect pre-amp to stereo amp (I just use unbalanced out to the amp's Ext. In)? What is your  music source?


No, I don't have the Pro iDSD. Gumby is connected to the Pro iCAN with a pair of 3 pin xlr but then that is connected to the Decware tube amp with rca only since it is not a balanced amp but it is dual mono amps. I'll try it some more and report back.


----------



## mrip541

Probably mentioned previously but... Do the balanced preamp outs auto mute when headphones are connected? If they don't, can they be muted?


----------



## hamachan

mrip541 said:


> Probably mentioned previously but... Do the balanced preamp outs auto mute when headphones are connected? If they don't, can they be muted?


Both answers are NO.  According to the user manual,
QUOTE
The XLR and RCA outputs on the back over full preamplifier function, but are *not* switched of if headphones are connected. Nonetheless, the Pro iCAN should be used either as preamplifier or headphone amplifier, as generally a mixed use setup is not recommended.
UNQUOTE


----------



## philipwu

dear  ican Pro users or IFI staff, 

i'm seeking a technical advice. 
A) irregardless of the gain setting (0db,+9db or +18db) and volume level, would it be OK to use 4pin XLR connection and a single ended headphone connection (3.5mm or 6.35mm jack) simultaneously, listening to 2 headphone simultaneously? would iCan Pro get short circuit since it uses true balanced circuit and all the output sockets are fully operating at the same time! Ignoring the output power send to both headphones, my concern here is any chances of short circuit the iCan pro? 

B)  can i plug a headphone adapter (4pin XLR to 6.35mm TRS jack) into the 4pin XLR socket of iCan Pro without shorting the ICan pro? 
[ iCan Pro ==>  4pin XLR adapter ==> 6.35mm TRS headphone cable ==> single ended headphone ]  

would anyone enlighten me ? i'll appreciate everyone whom spend time & effort to advise me on above questions. 

Thank you   : - )
-philip


----------



## tonyo442

hello, please I would like to have some help on the tubes GE 5670W I changed 2 times the tubes by exactly the same references, and the amp is put in security light red, new tubes bought on ebay, when I I replaced the original tubes, the amp worked again without problem, did this happen to others, or am I the only one,
yesterday I ordered a pair of tube to my French importer who should have them from iFI pro, thank you for the advice,


----------



## datasyd

Philip Yi Hao said:


> would it be OK to use 4pin XLR connection and a single ended headphone connection (3.5mm or 6.35mm jack) simultaneously



Using the single-ended 6.35mm TRS x 2 jacks for unbalanced headphones, the Pro iCAN is able to drive two separate headphones simultaneously, no problem. 

However, one person connecting their unbalanced headphones to, say, the 6.35mm jack at the same time as another listening to their balanced headphones via the 4-pin XLR will probably make for a lively debate. I can't imagine it providing the extremely capable Pro iCAN any issues in terms of delivering on what it promises. But bear in mind the person listening via the 4-pin XLR connection will likely think the volume is MUCH louder than the person listening via the 6.35mm jack. You might struggle to find a happy and sustainable compromise, which will defeat this amp's purpose.


----------



## philipwu

datasyd said:


> Using the single-ended 6.35mm TRS x 2 jacks for unbalanced headphones, the Pro iCAN is able to drive two separate headphones simultaneously, no problem.
> 
> However, one person connecting their unbalanced headphones to, say, the 6.35mm jack at the same time as another listening to their balanced headphones via the 4-pin XLR will probably make for a lively debate. I can't imagine it providing the extremely capable Pro iCAN any issues in terms of delivering on what it promises. But bear in mind the person listening via the 4-pin XLR connection will likely think the volume is MUCH louder than the person listening via the 6.35mm jack. You might struggle to find a happy and sustainable compromise, which will defeat this amp's purpose.


hello, 
Thank you Syd. appreciate your detail answer. you have great listening fun ahead!  
regards,


----------



## makan

A latecomer,  but in my first day with it using my AKG K1000, LCD4 and HE-6. Loving the tube mode and xtra sub bass where needed.


----------



## Bonddam (Sep 19, 2019)

I'm new to this thread but I've owned my pro ican since March. I'd like too know where the tube section stacks up against other tube amps. Also what tubes are good options over the stock ones? Using Verite in regular tube mode if that helps. I haven't used the tube section until today so I know the burn in period of possible 40hrs. Does switching out the tubes void warranty?


----------



## ufospls2

Relaxing with Milo

Hey Guys,

Today we are talking about an absolute Swiss army knife of an amplifier, the iFi Audio Pro iCAN. Not only does this amp sound great, it can do pretty much….everything!

iFi Audio is a British company that was founded in 2012. It is a subsidiary of AMR Audio, which has a long history of making stereo equipment. iFi has always struck me as a company that focuses more on headphone and personal audio, but that does seem to be changing lately, and they are branching out into other areas (see the iFi “Aurora” all in one for an example of this.) Their products are innovative, and seem to prioritise functionality _as well as_ sonic performance. 

The “Pro” line up launched with Pro iCAN that we are talking about today, but has since seen the introduction of the iESL (for electrostatic headphones) and the Pro iDSD DAC (which I will be talking about in a new review in a few days, another great bit of gear.) 

The Pro iCAN, which I will just refer to as the iCAN from here on out, is a small desktop sized amplifier. It features, not one, but two true tube modes, as well as a fully solid state mode. Talk about flexibility! You can switch between these modes on the fly with a flip of the switch, and it takes about 5 seconds for each mode to engage. The iCAN also features the best implementation I have heard of iFi’s “XBass” feature, as well as their take on crossfeed, the “3D” feature. I didn’t use the “3D” feature too often, but it does work well on some tracks, and the “XBass” feature is a tasteful boost at three different levels. I think it really depends on the headphones you are using when it comes to determining which of these levels and features you will want to use, and  of course, your personal preference will play a role as well. 





Almost every connection you can think of!
The iCAN is a bit of a mini powerhouse, it doesn’t take up much space, but it puts out 14,000mw at peak output levels, and with its 3 gain settings, can run everything from sensitive IEMs, to the Hifiman Susvara and HE6. Not many amps can boast such flexibility. Now, if you try to listen at enthusiastic levels, with both the “XBass” and “3D” features on with the Susvara or HE6, the amp will likely go into protection mode as it is starting to struggle, but apart from that it will have no troubles driving them. 

I think the iCAN has a similar sound signature across its three output modes, SS, Tube, and Tube +. The two tube modes are noticeably different from the SS mode, but they seem to maintain a similar sound signature and are not warm and gooey as some people expect tubes to be. The two tube modes seem to round off the edges of notes and make things a bit easier to listen to, but it will really depend on your headphones and preferences as to which mode you will prefer. I ended up using Tube mode with my Abyss, but SS mode with the Susvara. With something like the Focal Utopia, I could see Tube mode being used, and with the ZMF Eikon, maybe SS mode. The flexibility the iCAN offers, again, is tremendous. 





I would describe the Pro iCAN as a fairly neutral sounding amp, perhaps leaning to colder and clinical at times, but not in a bad way, its just not a warm, fuzzy, and thick sounding amp. 

The iCANs technical performance was quite impressive, from dynamic swings to detail rendering. It perhaps doesn’t make the Susvara and hard to drive headphones slam as hard as a speaker amp, but it has no troubles powering them, and does more than an acceptable job at bringing out the positive qualities of said headphones.  

I tried comparing the iCAN to my iDSD Black Label, which is also made by iFi. The Micro iDSD BL is a fantastic transportable all in one unit, I really love it. However, perhaps it is not fair to compare it to a standalone desktop amp, but as both units are made by iFi I gave it a shot. As an amp only, the Pro iCAN, apart from being what seemed like infinitely more powerful, was more detailed and neutral sounding. The Micro iDSD seemed to have a tiny bit bloom that the Pro iCAN did not, as well as less detail. I still hold the Micro iDSD BL in very high regard as a transportable all in one, but its amp section was indeed beaten quite handily by its big brother. No surprises there I suppose. 

iFi Audio has come up true Swiss army knife of an amp with the Pro iCAN, and it really doesn’t do anything wrong! It can power sensitive IEMs without hiss, it can power most of the hardest to drive headphones on the market, it has bass enhancement and crossed implementations, and is both a SS *and* tube amp. I think it sounds fantastic, especially for the sale prices I have seen it available at on occasion (about $1299USD, and about $1000USD used.) I have even seen one unit sell for $850USD! At these prices, this amp is not only an excellent recommendation, but is a very solid value compared to some of the other options on the market. 





With a tower of planar goodness!
The iFi Pro iCAN gets a very thorough recommendation from me, especially if you are looking for “one amp to rule them all.” I could see this amp being a reviewers dream come true, as it is so truly flexible. Great job and congratulations to the team at iFi for creating such a stand out product. I really enjoyed my time with the Pro iCAN, and to this day, consider purchasing one on occasion, even though I don’t truly need it! 

Thanks for taking the time to read this review.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm enjoying this amp very much. I was planning to sell it to make room for the GS-X mini, but having the bass boost feature makes it difficult to even give that up.


----------



## Starboy (Jan 24, 2020)

I purchased the Ifi Pro solely as a linestage in a high end system having used the iTube2 with a Western Electric 396A valve as a preamp and a 47 Labs 4707 input selector for more inputs plus an extra output.... This was so good I decided to get the Pro.... The Audiogon link below shows the context/associated equipment in which it is used and for my purposes it is a Swiss Army knife of a preamp.... For a dedicated vinyl head this kit is a godsend as vinyl recordings are so varied and the Pro can be adjust as required on the fly.... In terms of fidelity it is superb and if made by the likes of companies like Nagra it would imo be 2-3 times the price, so for me an absolute bargain especially if purchased used.

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/1112


----------



## vonBaron

Anyone compared Pro ICan to other AMP at this price point like HeadAmp GS-X, Bryston BHA-1, etc?


----------



## Rayzilla

Starboy said:


> I purchased the Ifi Pro solely as a linestage in a high end system having used the iTube2 with a Western Electric 396A valve as a preamp and a 47 Labs 4707 input selector for more inputs plus an extra output.... This was so good I decided to get the Pro....The Audiogon link below shows the context in which it is used and for my purposes it is a Swiss Army knife of a preamp.... For a dedicated vinyl person a godsend as recording are so varied and the Pro can be adjust as required on the fly.... In terms of fidelity it is superb and if made by the likes of companies like Nagra it would imo be 2-3 times the price so for me an absolute bargain especially if purchased used.
> 
> https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/1112


I am not sure what you are referring to in that link. Can you please clarify for me? Thanks.


----------



## Starboy

Rayzilla said:


> I am not sure what you are referring to in that link. Can you please clarify for me? Thanks.


The link shows the associated equipment and context in which the Pro is used for reference but more of use to audiophiles.... Regards


----------



## MisterMoJo

Hi does the ifi pro pair well with the LCD 2 r2?  I know this amp may be a bit of overkill for those phones, but eventually I will move up the LCD food chain.  I also have cheaper amps now and I am not impressed.  I am interested in the ifi pro, the GSX-mini and the Violectric V280 to possibly pair with my headphones.  Any help here would be appreciated.


----------



## Bonddam

MisterMoJo said:


> Hi does the ifi pro pair well with the LCD 2 r2?  I know this amp may be a bit of overkill for those phones, but eventually I will move up the LCD food chain.  I also have cheaper amps now and I am not impressed.  I am interested in the ifi pro, the GSX-mini and the Violectric V280 to possibly pair with my headphones.  Any help here would be appreciated.


I had the ifi and v281 I have the mini and sonic performance was best out of the mini. It powers all my headphones with ease.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Bonddam said:


> I had the ifi and v281 I have the mini and sonic performance was best out of the mini. It powers all my headphones with ease.


I like the mini a lot and have almost ordered it a couple of times.  I just am not sure if it will do well with my 'phones.  I suppose it should.


----------



## vonBaron

Bonddam said:


> I had the ifi and v281 I have the mini and sonic performance was best out of the mini. It powers all my headphones with ease.


 So the gsx-mini has better SQ than Pro ICan?


----------



## vonBaron

I heard that you can change volume control in Pro ICan for better sound?


----------



## Bonddam

That is how I feel. Only thing I liked about the ican was the bass boost.


----------



## gto88

Bonddam said:


> That is how I feel. Only thing I liked about the ican was the bass boost.


The 3D switch changes sound stage, it is fun.


----------



## vonBaron (Jan 25, 2020)

I pair my Final D8000, Ether Flow, Focal Clear and Fostex TH-900 with Pro ICan and it sounds great.
I don't use bass boost and 3D.
Too bad that HeadAmp is not available in EU.


----------



## robo24

Well, just got a new one of these and it's already stopped working within 45 minutes 
It still works with unbalanced DAC sources. However, simply cannot get any sound out of it now through ANY balanced source. It was using SDAC-B initially when it stopped. Works from the single ended connection on the SDAC-B though, and 2 other DACS I tried. SMSL-SU8 same problem. iCan was set to balanced each time. 

Anyone have any idea of further trouble shooting? I even tried 2 different sets of balanced cables, both of which have always worked with my 2 other balanced amps and did with this for 45 minutes. Tried shutting off and back on, SS, Tube, and Tube+, every gain setting and still nothing. I'd read that many others have had problems with them brand new but was hoping for the best. It seems very bizarre that it would work balanced at first and then stop working so quickly. Very frustrating!


----------



## makan

robo24 said:


> Well, just got a new one of these and it's already stopped working within 45 minutes
> It still works with unbalanced DAC sources. However, simply cannot get any sound out of it now through ANY balanced source. It was using SDAC-B initially when it stopped. Works from the single ended connection on the SDAC-B though, and 2 other DACS I tried. SMSL-SU8 same problem. iCan was set to balanced each time.
> 
> Anyone have any idea of further trouble shooting? I even tried 2 different sets of balanced cables, both of which have always worked with my 2 other balanced amps and did with this for 45 minutes. Tried shutting off and back on, SS, Tube, and Tube+, every gain setting and still nothing. I'd read that many others have had problems with them brand new but was hoping for the best. It seems very bizarre that it would work balanced at first and then stop working so quickly. Very frustrating!


That really sucks.  No, I have not had such issues.


----------



## robo24

Fortunately seller took it back and I was able to find another form an authorized seller for not much more. Loved what I heard so far.


----------



## vonBaron

robo24 said:


> Fortunately seller took it back and I was able to find another form an authorized seller for not much more. Loved what I heard so far.


After you change tube for something better you will be more loved


----------



## robo24

vonBaron said:


> After you change tube for something better you will be more loved


Well I'll definitely wait until the warranty is up before I'd try. I was happy with the stock tubes the little I heard them.


----------



## vonBaron

It's worth wait, trust me.


----------



## Rayzilla

vonBaron said:


> It's worth wait, trust me.


Which tube do you recommend to replace the stock with and can you describe the changes one should expect? Thanks.


----------



## vonBaron

I use Western Electric 396A, they give you little warm sound, musicality, big soundstage, very good ammount of detail. 
Now I use more often the tube setting over SS.


----------



## robo24

Planning to use this with mostly 300 Ohm Senns & ZMFs. Anyone know how much power it puts out via balanced with 300 Ohm headphones and how the power compares to both the THX 789 and iDSD Micro Black?


----------



## iFi audio

robo24 said:


> Planning to use this with mostly 300 Ohm Senns & ZMFs. Anyone know how much power it puts out via balanced with 300 Ohm headphones and how the power compares to both the THX 789 and iDSD Micro Black?



Please see the bottom of this page: https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-ican/

Pro iCAN does 14W into 16 Ohm loads in balanced mode. micro iDSD BL does 4W with the same load.


----------



## robo24

iFi audio said:


> Please see the bottom of this page: https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-ican/
> 
> Pro iCAN does 14W into 16 Ohm loads in balanced mode. micro iDSD BL does 4W with the same load.


Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I am asking about 300 Ohm and that doesn't have it. For example, for the THX 789, the specs page states "

Output power: 800 mW, 300 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)"
So what is the output power for 300 Ohms for the Pro iCAN? Thanks!


----------



## robo24

Sorry for another question both to iFI and owners on this thread. I'm intrigued by the various USB devices iFi makes. Using an iMac USB A port to various DACs (Micro Black, SDAC-B, SMSL-SU8) and the Pro iCAN, which if any of the following are recommended or seem to improve sound: iPurifier 2 or 3, iDefender, and iSilencer. While you may not know about other DACs, with the Micro Black as the DAC, are any of those useful and/or are any of those features built into the Micro Black?


----------



## arch023

Is it difficult to swap tubes? Im getting bored with the tubes and i heard that they are not really good tubes. Not bad tubes but standard


----------



## descloud

robo24 said:


> Sorry for another question both to iFI and owners on this thread. I'm intrigued by the various USB devices iFi makes. Using an iMac USB A port to various DACs (Micro Black, SDAC-B, SMSL-SU8) and the Pro iCAN, which if any of the following are recommended or seem to improve sound: iPurifier 2 or 3, iDefender, and iSilencer. While you may not know about other DACs, with the Micro Black as the DAC, are any of those useful and/or are any of those features built into the Micro Black?



I don't think the iPurifier, iDefender, or iSilencer would improve / impact much of the output of the DAC/Amps you're connecting them to, based on ASR measurements I've read at least.  Others who have it may experience it differently.

As for the Micro (don't have the black though, but they have the same feature set), the DAC is a pretty decent DAC, although there are articles claiming the Micro Black has improved compared to the non-black one.

The XBass and 3D switches do have an impact, but only if you use the Micro as either a DAC/AMP combo, or as a preamp to an external amp.

I find the XBass boost effective for certain songs, especially EDM ones, but I keep it on nonetheless.  3D boost is a hit or miss tbh, they adjust the upper mids and high frequencies to have this 3D effect, but makes other tracks have a weird placement so I usually keep that off.


----------



## suby4me

arch023 said:


> Is it difficult to swap tubes? Im getting bored with the tubes and i heard that they are not really good tubes. Not bad tubes but standard



A few threads earlier, there was a member here that was swapping out the tubes. But I believe it voids your warranty if you switch out the tubes.


----------



## Rayzilla (Feb 26, 2020)

If I use the iCAN as a preamp, will any of the features such as Tube, Tube+ also carry over to the external amp?

I just confirmed that XBass, 3D, and Gain do. Can anyone confirm regarding the Tube and Tube+?


----------



## franci2105

Does anybody listen to the Z1R with the ican? What gain do you use  when in tube mode in balanced connection? If you set to 18db can you hear like me a little hiss coming from the left channel but only in tube balanced connection and not when in 6.3?


----------



## Slim1970

Rayzilla said:


> If I use the iCAN as a preamp, will any of the features such as Tube, Tube+ also carry over to the external amp?I just confirmed that XBass, 3D, and Gain do.


Yes, they do


----------



## Rayzilla

Slim1970 said:


> Yes, they do


Just to confirm because I didn't write my post very clearly, you are referring to the Tube and Tube+, right?


----------



## Slim1970

Rayzilla said:


> Just to confirm because I didn't write my post very clearly, you are referring to the Tube and Tube+, right?


Yes, the Pro iCan when used as a preamp still gives access to all of the features as you have when using it as a headphone amp. The preamp stage is just as clean as the headphone stage well.


----------



## vonBaron

robo24 said:


> Planning to use this with mostly 300 Ohm Senns & ZMFs. Anyone know how much power it puts out via balanced with 300 Ohm headphones and how the power compares to both the THX 789 and iDSD Micro Black?



I see you have Bryston BHA-1, how it compare to Pro ICan?
I heard that Bryston long time ago and i don't remember it very good.


----------



## robo24

vonBaron said:


> I see you have Bryston BHA-1, how it compare to Pro ICan?
> I heard that Bryston long time ago and i don't remember it very good.


I think you've replied to the wrong post. I don't have that and have never heard it.


----------



## vonBaron

Rayzilla said:


> Which tube do you recommend to replace the stock with and can you describe the changes one should expect? Thanks.


I see you have Bryston BHA-1, how it compare to Pro ICan?
I heard that Bryston long time ago and i don't remember it very good.


robo24 said:


> I think you've replied to the wrong post. I don't have that and have never heard it.


Yes, sorry...


----------



## Rayzilla (Mar 7, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> I see you have Bryston BHA-1, how it compare to Pro ICan?
> I heard that Bryston long time ago and i don't remember it very good.
> 
> Yes, sorry...


I have actually never really AB'ed them but I'll do it soon when the balanced cable comes for my LCD2 Classic and HEDDphone.

I don't want to use the BHA-1 in single ended as that section is far inferior to the balanced section. When I do, I post an update here.


----------



## iFi audio

Rayzilla said:


> I don't want to us the BHA-1 in single ended as that section is far inferior to the balanced section. When I do, I post an update here.



I look forward to your findings!


----------



## alexdemaet

I ordered an iFi iCan pro and I also have an iFi micro iTube. Should I still chain the iTube in my audio rig? And where should I put the iTube? 
Headhone rig: Computer with Foobar2000>RME ADI 2 pro>iFi iCan pro
Speaker rig: Computer with Foobar2000>RME ADI 2 pro>iFi iCan pro>Linn Kairn pro>Norh le amp monoblocks>Focal Jmlabs Electra 946


----------



## Gippy

After a bit over a month with the Pro iCAN, I posted my review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ifi-audio-pro-ican.21555/reviews#item-review-23516


----------



## m-i-c-k-e-y

Jollibee?

....sorry had to...


----------



## iFi audio

Gippy said:


> After a bit over a month with the Pro iCAN, I posted my review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ifi-audio-pro-ican.21555/reviews#item-review-23516



Cool, thanks a lot!


----------



## alexdemaet

It must be possible to run the iCan pro from a battery? https://www.amazon.de/-/nl/gp/product/B07PY8516W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 
I am running the RME Adi 2 pro from this battery


----------



## alexdemaet

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25745


----------



## iFi audio

alexdemaet said:


> It must be possible to run the iCan pro from a battery?



I haven't tried it so I can't say. But most likely if you can find a battery capable of outputting what Pro iCAN needs, you should be good.


----------



## alexdemaet

iFi audio said:


> I haven't tried it so I can't say. But most likely if you can find a battery capable of outputting what Pro iCAN needs, you should be good.


I tri


iFi audio said:


> I haven't tried it so I can't say. But most likely if you can find a battery capable of outputting what Pro iCAN needs, you should be good.


It works with this battery https://www.amazon.de/-/nl/gp/product/B07PY8516W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 !


----------



## iFi audio

alexdemaet said:


> It works with this battery https://www.amazon.de/-/nl/gp/product/B07PY8516W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 !



Have you used it? If so, how does it compare to Pro iCAN's regualr PSU?


----------



## alexdemaet

iFi audio said:


> Have you used it? If so, how does it compare to Pro iCAN's regualr PSU?


I don't think it would be much difference. It is just great that I can move the iCan  around with the battery.


----------



## franci2105

What in your opinion the best settings for the Pro iCan with the Sony MDR-Z1R?

-SS/tube/tube+?
-What gain?
-Bass gain?
-3D Holographic?


----------



## vonBaron

SS/Odb or 9/off/off


----------



## franci2105

vonBaron said:


> SS/Odb or 9/off/off


Is it your main amp for the Z1R?


----------



## vonBaron

I don't have Z1R but i listen it.


----------



## Jackomik




----------



## alexdemaet

I wish there was an option to upgrade the remote control...


----------



## RustyGates

To anyone interested:

https://www.aussieaudiomart.com/details/649539838-for-sale-ifi-pro-ican-head-amp-amp-stereo-amp/


----------



## iFi audio (Apr 27, 2020)

Jackomik said:


>



Great shot! These Focals are always something to look at!



alexdemaet said:


> I don't think it would be much difference. It is just great that I can move the iCan around with the battery.



That's surely one very interesting setup. I don't think I've seen anyone in here to do that with the Pro range...


----------



## Jackomik




----------



## vonBaron

Focal headphones + Pro ICan is a excellent parring.


----------



## iFi audio

vonBaron said:


> Focal headphones + Pro ICan is a excellent parring.



I've heard it once and was pleasantly surprised. Even in spite of crowdy place (it happened at one show). Tube+ nicely complimented these Focals from what I can remember.


----------



## alexdemaet

Is it possible to program the IR codes on another remote control?


----------



## xcom

alexdemaet said:


> Is it possible to program the IR codes on another remote control?



Looking for this answer as well.


----------



## iFi audio

alexdemaet said:


> Is it possible to program the IR codes on another remote control?



Might be possible with vol control, I'll double-check and will get back to you once I know something!


----------



## gto88

xcom said:


> Looking for this answer as well.


If your "another remote control" has learning mode, you can try it.


----------



## iFi audio

gto88 said:


> If your "another remote control" has learning mode, you can try it.



Shouldn't be a problem!


----------



## xcom (May 11, 2020)

iFi audio said:


> Shouldn't be a problem!



I posted this on the Pro iDSD thread but ill posted there.... I purchased a learning remote, I will post my findings.


----------



## iFi audio

xcom said:


> I posted this on the Pro iDSD thread but ill posted there.... I purchased a learning remote, I will post my findings.



Sure, please do!


----------



## alexdemaet

xcom said:


> I posted this on the Pro iDSD thread but ill posted there.... I purchased a learning remote, I will post my findings.


I would like to know if you purchased a Logitech learning remote. And if it's capable to quickly adjust the volume (down).


----------



## xcom

alexdemaet said:


> I would like to know if you purchased a Logitech learning remote. And if it's capable to quickly adjust the volume (down).


I did not. I purchased a learning remote from AliExpress that allows for a master and slave type learning.


----------



## gto88

look great.
One more option for ak4499.


----------



## iFi audio

gto88 said:


> look great.
> One more option for ak4499.



Can you elaborate  ?


----------



## gto88

iFi audio said:


> Can you elaborate  ?


Sorry, I added comment on wrong thread, please ignore it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi guys, I have two questions regarding the iCan Pro (which I love, buy the way. So well done!). 

A. Can I drive two headphones at the same time using balanced (4pin XLR & 2x3Pin XLR), if both are roughtly on the same spectrum (meaning "difficult", in that case HD800S and ab-1266) 

B. I have a 2.5mm balanced cable with 2x3pin XLR which I use from my DAP as input for the iCan Pro. Someone told me this is dangerous for the DAP. Is this true and if yes, how so? 

Thank you very much for your feedback.


----------



## Ninosan

I hope not to violate the regulation, but I invite all owners of this amplifier to visit this link. An excellent explanation of the tubes used in the ICAN Pro.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148150.0


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi guys, I have two questions regarding the iCan Pro (which I love, buy the way. So well done!).
> 
> A. Can I drive two headphones at the same time using balanced (4pin XLR & 2x3Pin XLR), if both are roughtly on the same spectrum (meaning "difficult", in that case HD800S and ab-1266)
> 
> ...



Nobody?


----------



## Swisshead

I just ordered an iCan Pro! Hope I won't disappoint you! I have read through many reviews and forums and it seems to be a really exceptional amplifier. 

Looking for a higher level to my headphones. Hope this is it.

I will use the RME as DAC. Anyone have any experience with it? How does it work with the iFi Micro iDSD BL? Has anyone tried it?

He should be here tomorrow, looking forward to it like a little kid. But think of the best you can get in this price range!


----------



## alexdemaet

I am using the RME adi 2 pro as dac. The RME is connected to the iFi pro iCan through XLR. I am using Direct stream dsd mode on the ADI, so you should only be able to adjust the volume on the iCan. I have also ordered the iFi Audio IESL.


----------



## Swisshead

Thanks a lot for your tip! Yes, I didn't even think about XLR, just ordered another set of good ones! 

Always had Cynch in mind, but XLR makes much more sense, especially if both units have the right connectors! Great!


----------



## Ninosan

I know someone who has connected RME to ICAN PRO. He is very satisfied.
I was also ordering RME but then I changed my mind because RME is also an amplifier. I was looking for a pure DAC and so I ordered the new SMSL M400.
I hope I don't regret it.


----------



## Swisshead

I ordered this cable, I hope are OK!


----------



## alexdemaet

I don't know those. Should be good enough! I am using Cardas Audio XLR neutral reference cables


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Swisshead said:
			
		

> How does it work with the iFi Micro iDSD BL? Has anyone tried it?



Very decent, especially at that price point. I extensively compared it with a Hugo2 and found the latter a tad more smooth and transparent, but to a very small degree. My wife preferred the BL right away.


----------



## robo24

alexdemaet said:


> I have also ordered the iFi Audio IESL.


Considering the same. Please let us know how it performs, especially compared to whatever other energizer you have/had, either here and/or the iESL thread. What headphones will you be using it. I have a Stax 323A, but obviously I need to know it would be a big step up with the Stax SR-007 MK2.5 to justify the expense.


----------



## alexdemaet

For the moment I only have a Kingsound KS-H4. I am also going to use dynamic headphones on the IESL. I am new to electrostatic headphones and I won't be able to compare it with another amp.


----------



## Swisshead




----------



## gto88

congratulation, good choice & enjoy.


----------



## makan

gto88 said:


> congratulation, good choice & enjoy.


Agreed...I have the ADI-2 DAC paired with the ican pro as well


----------



## alexdemaet

alexdemaet said:


> For the moment I only have a Kingsound KS-H4. I am also going to use dynamic headphones on the IESL. I am new to electrostatic headphones and I won't be able to compare it with another amp.


----------



## alexdemaet

Dynamic Cans sound better through the iCan pro. I brought everything close to me by using batteries. So, i don't need the crappy remote. The Kingsound ks-h04 really sounds great! It's the first time I tried electrostatic gear. Really love it


----------



## Hoegaardener70

That's a bit of a cable mess there . Ah, well …


----------



## iFi audio

alexdemaet said:


> For the moment I only have a Kingsound KS-H4. I am also going to use dynamic headphones on the IESL. I am new to electrostatic headphones and I won't be able to compare it with another amp.



Still, share the experience please!



Hoegaardener70 said:


> That's a bit of a cable mess there . Ah, well …



I see it as a creative disorder   



alexdemaet said:


> It's the first time I tried electrostatic gear. Really love it



Yeah, I won't forget my first time with estats. Not quite up there with the best planars I know, but interesting and special in on their own.


----------



## iFi audio

Swisshead said:


>



Whoa, that's one clean setup right there!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

iFi audio said:


> Whoa, that's one clean setup right there!



Hi, since you are online, could you please answer the two questions I posted before?


<<<<<I have two questions regarding the iCan Pro (which I love, buy the way. So well done!). 

A. Can I drive two headphones at the same time using balanced (4pin XLR & 2x3Pin XLR), if both are roughly on the same spectrum (meaning "difficult", in that case HD800S and ab-1266) 

B. I have a 2.5mm balanced cable with 2x3pin XLR which I use from my DAP as input for the iCan Pro. Someone told me this is dangerous for the DAP. Is this true and if yes, how so? 

Thank you very much for your feedback.>>>>>


----------



## alexdemaet

iFi audio said:


> Still, share the experience please!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For the moment, I can only say that they sound a bit like speakers. I still have to compare them with dynamic cans.


----------



## iFi audio

Hoegaardener70 said:


> A. Can I drive two headphones at the same time using balanced (4pin XLR & 2x3Pin XLR), if both are roughly on the same spectrum (meaning "difficult", in that case HD800S and ab-1266)



Yes.



Hoegaardener70 said:


> B. I have a 2.5mm balanced cable with 2x3pin XLR which I use from my DAP as input for the iCan Pro. Someone told me this is dangerous for the DAP. Is this true and if yes, how so?



I don't see why it should be dangerous for a DAP. 



Hoegaardener70 said:


> Thank you very much for your feedback.>>>>>


----------



## Hoegaardener70

iFi audio said:


> Yes.



Thanks for the confirmation. So … the comparison may begin. Amazing amp.


----------



## alexdemaet

alexdemaet said:


> For the moment, I can only say that they sound a bit like speakers. I still have to compare them with dynamic cans.



Today I tried the Grado ps1ke and the kingsound (again).

The Music I used: Marvin Gaye What's going on (Dsd64)

 I tried the ps1ke on the IESL and I must say that it does sound as good on the IESL. 
there is a difference between the kingsound and the Big Grado. I am sorry but i can't describe it yet. 

What use has the impedance knop on the IESL? When i put it on 16 Ohm, it sounds the best. It gives Bigger Soundstage. The sound is more open.

There is no iCan pro bass enhouncement needed on the kingsound.


----------



## alexdemaet

I especially like music with instruments (jazz, classic, reggae, ...). The Kingsound really shines with real instruments. 
It sounds very mellow, smooth and tangible in general. I am not a bass head. So to me there is no extra bass needed. I read the highs are exceptionally smooth and resolving. The iFi/Kingsound setup is very relaxing. 
I still have to try the iCan pro tube mode.


----------



## Swisshead

Dear iFi Audio, unfortunately the technical data of the iCan are very sparse. May I ask how many volts the XLR input voltage should have on XLR-Input?

I'm trying it out with RME ADI-2 DAC. There they write 2 volts would be standard. Should the iFi get more? Then I could adjust the RME accordingly.

Thanks for a short answer.


----------



## Maximiliano Campo

Hey guys, wondering if anyone can help me, I'm using this amp connected to my Astell and Kern SP1000M, is it better to max out the amp volume and control the music volume from my DAP, or is it better to max out the DAP and control the music volume from amp? 

How do you control the source VS amp volume for optimal listening quality? 

Or is it a case of it doesn't matter?


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 8, 2020)

Maximiliano Campo said:


> Hey guys, wondering if anyone can help me, I'm using this amp connected to my Astell and Kern SP1000M, is it better to max out the amp volume and control the music volume from my DAP, or is it better to max out the DAP and control the music volume from amp?



Please either set your A&K device's digital volume to max, or use its line out. Then please regulate volume only on Pro iCAN via its volume knob.



Maximiliano Campo said:


> How do you control the source VS amp volume for optimal listening quality?



Ideally you want to bypass digital volume attenuation, and you want to use only one volume control in your setup. Your A&K device adjusts volume digitally, which is why my advice is to bypass it either by using this DAP's line out, or maxing its digital volume as explained above.



Maximiliano Campo said:


> Or is it a case of it doesn't matter?



It matters, please see above.



Swisshead said:


> Dear iFi Audio, unfortunately the technical data of the iCan are very sparse. May I ask how many volts the XLR input voltage should have on XLR-Input?



Since Pro iCAN was designed to comply with the Pro industry standard, its inputs and outputs handle from 2 to 14v.


----------



## alexdemaet

Swisshead said:


> Dear iFi Audio, unfortunately the technical data of the iCan are very sparse. May I ask how many volts the XLR input voltage should have on XLR-Input?
> 
> I'm trying it out with RME ADI-2 DAC. There they write 2 volts would be standard. Should the iFi get more? Then I could adjust the RME accordingly.
> 
> Thanks for a short answer.


I am setting the output voltage of the RME to +7 dBu (you can choose between +1, +7 and +13).


----------



## iFi audio

alexdemaet said:


> I am setting the output voltage of the RME to +7 dBu (you can choose between +1, +7 and +13).



Our product doesn't favor one specific input voltage. It works within 2-14V range, so whatever in-between these values will work.


----------



## tonyo442

hello, being owner of the ifi pro ican, I would have liked to compare with other headphone amplifiers, the problem is that the powerful headphone amps which can drive helmets like the Audeze lcd4, or certain Hifiman or lately the HEDDphone HEDD, are not not many, with symmetrical and very transparent mounting, XLR 4 headphone jack, my first complaint with the ifi pro ican and having integrated two amps in a single box, on the resolution tube amplifier there is no obvious difference with the transistor amplifier, and especially it loses in details and transparency maybe if the amplifier ifi pro ican could have been more elaborate, with a consequent supply, a potentiometer of better quality, if some owner of ifi pro ican were able to make comparisons, it would be good to share it with me, thank you


----------



## iFi audio

tonyo442 said:


> my first complaint with the ifi pro ican and having integrated two amps in a single box,



There are multiple output stages inside of Pro iCAN and it's a fully balanced product, which to many people would is an advantage rather than a valid reason to complain  



tonyo442 said:


> on the resolution tube amplifier there is no obvious difference with the transistor amplifier, and especially it loses in details and transparency maybe if the amplifier ifi pro ican could have been more elaborate, with a consequent supply, a potentiometer of better quality,



Different output stages were supposed to result in different sound performance, and it's quite system specific which one sounds better and when


----------



## gto88

A question, might be asked before, but couldn’t find it.
Can iCan pro drive two SE headphone at same time?
Trying to do a/b comparison easier if it can.


----------



## alexdemaet

gto88 said:


> A question, might be asked before, but couldn’t find it.
> Can iCan pro drive two SE headphone at same time?
> Trying to do a/b comparison easier if it can.


Yes, and it is best to use the left and right plugins (where the balanced 4 pin xlr headphone plugin is).


----------



## gto88

Thanks, I asked because the manual said “it is possible”, not “it can”, not clear if there is any condition to do so.


----------



## iFi audio

alexdemaet said:


> Yes, and it is best to use the left and right plugins (where the balanced 4 pin xlr headphone plugin is).



Yes!


----------



## vonBaron

Why this adapter not wroking well with Pro ICan?
It's becouse it has stereo 6,3mm?


----------



## alexdemaet

vonBaron said:


> Why this adapter not wroking well with Pro ICan?
> It's becouse it has stereo 6,3mm?


Is this not to be used with the RME Adi 2 pro?


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, it is but i was thinking it will work with Pro ICan too.


----------



## alexdemaet

I haven't tried it yet. I will try it out later on. I also have a simular cable.


----------



## makan (Jun 23, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> Yes, it is but i was thinking it will work with Pro ICan too.


That will not work with the pro ican.  You need to use the a double 3 pin XLR male to 4 pin XLR female instead.  Of course you could just plug your 4 pin XLR female directly to the pro ican.


----------



## vonBaron

On this note thay say it will work. 
https://media.ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/TECH-NOTE-Pro-iCAN.pdf


----------



## dnd3241

Just come to say Hi....


----------



## dnd3241

Very happy with this combo.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

dnd3241 said:


> Just come to say Hi....



Hi, I'm from Hong Kong too?  Pleased to meet you!  Great combo you've got there  how does each pair of 'phones sound through this combo?


----------



## dnd3241 (Jun 26, 2020)

Joe Bloggs said:


> Hi, I'm from Hong Kong too?  Pleased to meet you!  Great combo you've got there  how does each pair of 'phones sound through this combo?



Pleased to meet you too ! Yes this is a great combo, although the iDSD can work alone but the iCAN can offer more option of output and the power is more than enough to drive 99% of headphone except Stax.

1. HD 820 - My setting is solid mode and mid gain, great sound stage, lot of details, fast and deep of bass. Mid range is better than HD800, Vocals is a little laid back, overall the presentation of HD820 under this combo is full balance and transparency.


----------



## dnd3241 (Jun 26, 2020)

Hifiman HE1000 - My setting is Tube+ mid gain.
Very sweet and warm of Vocals, sharp of the instrument, soundstage is closed not wide as HD820, punch of bass.. is perfect  for Jazz.


----------



## dnd3241

Meze Empyrean - My setting is tube mode and low gain
I can tell this is the joint venture of HD820 + HE1000 !  you can clearly hear every single note, wide and deep of soundstage, vocals is soft as laid back, the mass of bass is very good but not strong as HE1000. I only run the HP not more than 150 hours, I trust it should have more room to improve.


----------



## iFi audio

dnd3241 said:


> of headphone except Stax.



Our own iESL handles Stax and any other e-stats out there 

And yes, Empyreans are amazing cans! A HD820/HE1000 child indeed


----------



## Fontaine

Guys, I have a few questions to all the iFi Pro iCan owners over here.

1). How was your experience with this device ? Have you had any glitches / breakdowns / malfunctioning during the warranty and/or in the post warranty period ?
2). What about GE 5670? iFi says these valves can easily have a lifespan of about 100 000 hours. Does this sound like a realistic statement basing on your experience? Did anyone have to replace the stock valves so far - not for the sake of the upgrade, but just because they stopped working ?
3). And as far as the upgrade : what would be perfectly suitable valves to replace the stock 5670 ? Is there a specific list of models you could provide ?

Currently I'm looking at buying Pro iCan for my Sennheisers HD800. Sonically, I'm sure it's a good fit for these phones, but I've no clue what to expect from iFi in terms of reliability. I mean, we all want our devices to work much longer than the standard 1 year warranty period, right ?  I've seen a couple of posts above about the clicking sounds just after 48 hours of the amp's use, so I don't know... Really need your feedback on this one. The more feedback you could provide - the better 

Many thanks !


----------



## vonBaron

1. I use Pro ICan second year, i buy it used, evrything works great.
2. Really idk.
3. WE396A are great upgrade to stock GE5670, but not every WE396A will work.


----------



## elisiX (Jul 4, 2020)

I’ve been contemplating adding the iCan to my RME ADI-2, replacing my Audio GD D28.38 which I use as an amp with the RME.

It seems there are a few of you combining the iCan and RME. Headphones I’d be using would be Utopia, Stellia, Empyrean and HD6XX, so I’d love to heard thoughts on those pairings.

The reason I’m asking is I’ve had some feedback that the iCan can result in a bloated sound with bass focused headphones like the Empyrean.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

dnd3241 said:


> Meze Empyrean - My setting is tube mode and low gain
> I can tell this is the joint venture of HD820 + HE1000 !  you can clearly hear every single note, wide and deep of soundstage, vocals is soft as laid back, the mass of bass is very good but not strong as HE1000. I only run the HP not more than 150 hours, I trust it should have more room to improve.



Perhaps dnd3241 would like to expand on his experience on the Empyrean with the Pro iCan for elisiX?


----------



## Swisshead

elisiX said:


> I’ve been contemplating adding the iCan to my RME ADI-2, replacing my Audio GD D28.38 which I use as an amp with the RME.
> 
> It seems there are a few of you combining the iCan and RME. Headphones I’d be using would be Utopia, Stellia, Empyrean and HD6XX, so I’d love to heard thoughts on those pairings.
> 
> The reason I’m asking is I’ve had some feedback that the iCan can result in a bloated sound with bass focused headphones like the Empyrean.



I operate the iCan with the ADI-2 DAC. I find it a very good combination. I had also considered buying the Pro iDSD. But I got away from it. It costs three times as much as the ADI. I get a lot of functions there that I don't need. Don't need streaming. I don't need a tube in the preamp. Yes, even as a pure DAC and preamplifier the iDSD is certainly also very good, I have no doubt about that. But then again, a lot of things are doubled and a lot of things I don't need.

The ADI harmonizes very well with the iCAN. In addition, it is a neutral DAC, which I prefer and so in the iCAN it can work with tube mode or pure trasistor amplifier. The iCAN also gives me the possibility of bass and 3D sound. I hardly need it. Mostly I listen without XBass and without 3D, also in Gain level 0Db. The power is then completely sufficient. 

I like the sound of the iCan very much. It sounds powerful, offers an excellent bass foundation and is absolutely clear, fast and clean. It is a clear upgrade from a pure ADI amp. Especially for headphones, which simply need more power for a good sound. In my case these are the LCDi4 and the AEON2C. Also the Sennheiser 660s. They simply need more power to develop their full potential. Here one hears quite clearly a difference to the pure ADI amp. 

The important thing is to set the ADI correctly. Especially the output voltage at the XLR. At first I had massive distortion at high volumes via iCan. Then I noticed that the ADI output was too high. Then I reduced the volume a bit and the problem was solved. Now you can hear almost infinitely loud without the slightest distortion. 

With the ADI I am now at "Auto Ref Level" on OFF, Ref Level on +13dBu and volume on -6Db. After that Lock Volume ON. So it's perfect then.

Should I have too much bass on a KH, that's no problem either. You can still use bass controls, EQ and everything in the ADI. Then I just take the bass down a bit with the bass control. It works the other way round, too. That's exactly the huge advantage of the ADI, that I can still use all the setting options to the full. Filter, EQ, bass/treble control etc. There are a million things I can adjust.

Of course I can't say anything about the longevity of the iCan. But I read all forums and tests about the iCan before buying it. Nowhere did I find anything negative about failures or anything else. It has been running for over a month now and is in use a lot without any problems. 

I have thought a long time about which amplifier I should buy. The iCan simply convinced me the most. It is small, inconspicuous, excellently manufactured, everything is massive and very heavy. It offers me the most connection possibilities, has the advantage that I can use Tube or directly. It is fully symmetrical. The 3D function is very good, much better than crossfeed from ADI. The X-Bass is also excellent, especially with headphones that are a bit weak on the chest. I don't regret the purchase at all, I enjoy the device every day. The sound is also exactly to my taste and I would buy it again any time.


----------



## elisiX (Jul 5, 2020)

Swisshead said:


> I operate the iCan with the ADI-2 DAC. I find it a very good combination. I had also considered buying the Pro iDSD. But I got away from it. It costs three times as much as the ADI. I get a lot of functions there that I don't need. Don't need streaming. I don't need a tube in the preamp. Yes, even as a pure DAC and preamplifier the iDSD is certainly also very good, I have no doubt about that. But then again, a lot of things are doubled and a lot of things I don't need.
> 
> The ADI harmonizes very well with the iCAN. In addition, it is a neutral DAC, which I prefer and so in the iCAN it can work with tube mode or pure trasistor amplifier. The iCAN also gives me the possibility of bass and 3D sound. I hardly need it. Mostly I listen without XBass and without 3D, also in Gain level 0Db. The power is then completely sufficient.
> 
> ...



Brilliant feedback. Thank you.

As I’ve got the RME paired with an amp currently, Audio GD D28.38, I too had to play with the RME output settings. For me though, I’ve got the RME with auto ref on and at 0db. Seems to work fine both for headphones through the Audio GD, and then I am using the same line out to my KEF LSX, the latter I just adjust RME volume to -30 and don’t use the Audio GD.

The AGD is Class A, Discreet and leans warm, but it’s a bloody massive unit on my desk. That’s what’s primarily driving me to the iCan, as well as it’s switchable hybrid option and bass boost. If I can somehow run one single amp with my RME for Utopia and Empyrean, I’ll be happy. So far all I’ve read is that they need separate amps, but I feel a hybrid option might fit the bill.


----------



## Swisshead

Thank you and you're welcome. I don't think you should set Auto Ref Level to auto. Also, I think 0Db is too much and might just cause distortion. Be sure to check the output control in the display to make sure it doesn't overflow. 

ADI recommends as pure DAC Auto Ref. Level 13dBu, volume -4.5dB, gives exactly 2V output and 4V XLR. But -4.5 is too much for me, I had distortions, therefore to -6dB. 

Afterwards Volume button off. You control the volume via the amplifier. 

Yes is not easy to find the optimal setting. That means trying it out until it fits. It's possible that your setting works well, then everything is fine. 

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=30626


----------



## elisiX (Jul 5, 2020)

I’ll do some reading.

I’m not experiencing any distortion when using the line out via RCA to my KEF LSX or XLR to the Audio GD set as I’ve got it, but I also didn’t know RME recommended what you have outlined.

When using line out to the AMP it does say OVR, but a friend said it doesn’t matter when I questioned it. If I drop to -5db on the RME when using line out it doesn’t show OVR. I’ll adjust it.


----------



## Swisshead

elisiX said:


> I’ll do some reading.
> 
> I’m not experiencing any distortion when using the line out via RCA to my KEF LSX or XLR to the Audio GD set as I’ve got it, but I also didn’t know RME recommended what you have outlined.
> 
> When using line out to the AMP it does say OVR, but a friend said it doesn’t matter when I questioned it. If I drop to -5db on the RME when using line out it doesn’t show OVR. I’ll adjust it.



Here it depends on whether you have the ADI V1 or V2. The V1 is more sensitive to OVR because it has a lower signal-to-noise ratio than the V2. It is higher. It can take more. But it should definitely never go into OVR. Also note that if bass goes up or uses loudness, it also goes much faster into OVR and you should lower the volume a bit to avoid distortion.


----------



## elisiX

Swisshead said:


> Here it depends on whether you have the ADI V1 or V2. The V1 is more sensitive to OVR because it has a lower signal-to-noise ratio than the V2. It is higher. It can take more. But it should definitely never go into OVR. Also note that if bass goes up or uses loudness, it also goes much faster into OVR and you should lower the volume a bit to avoid distortion.



You have just reminded me that sometimes when I’ve had an adjusted EQ or low shelf, it can distort with +6db bass.

I’ve just adjusted my setting based on your advice. Makes no difference to me. Just means the amplifier volume goes higher!

Thank you again.


----------



## Swisshead

elisiX said:


> You have just reminded me that sometimes when I’ve had an adjusted EQ or low shelf, it can distort with +6db bass.
> 
> I’ve just adjusted my setting based on your advice. Makes no difference to me. Just means the amplifier volume goes higher!
> 
> Thank you again.



You're welcome. When I use very sensitive headphones on the iCan, sometimes I have to go down even more. Otherwise it's almost impossible to regulate the amplifier, because at 09:00 there's almost full volume. Then simply turn it down a bit via ADI. This gives me more control range. But then it's also the case that if you go out above 12:00, you can hardly notice any increase in volume. Then again increase the volume via ADI. Yes, it takes effort and there is always something to do to find the best for every headphone and every situation!


----------



## elisiX

Makes sense. I’m running RME V2 just as an FYI.


----------



## Swisshead

Something to add. Most amplifiers are designed for an input voltage of 2.1 Volt. This is usually what record players feed in. Other amplifiers don't care more or less. The iFi iCan works from 2V-14V. 

So I would set the ADI to 2 volts, as recommended by RME with the settings But be careful, bass, EQ and loudness increase the output voltages, you would have to correct that via volume. If you go up 6Db, you would have to lower the volume accordingly to stay in the optimal range.

Yes is a science. I also had to learn this when I got the iFi and used the ADI only as a DAC. Then I googled a lot and found good answers to all questions. In the beginning I was also way too high and the amplifier sounded really bad, totally distorted and I thought I had bought a "garbage". But no, just set ADI correctly and the iCan works absolutely perfect without any distortion. But if you go in with distortion, the amplifier will of course amplify that. Therefore it is important to deliver the signals to the amplifier as clean as possible.


----------



## Swisshead

Here by the way to the topic still another very good test of a German tester. Also with ADI.

https://www.miniklangwunder.de/arti...-audio-pro-ican-im-test-alles-in-einem-gerat/

You can translate with DeepL:

https://www.deepl.com/translator


----------



## arch023

Whats a good dac to go with this? I dont feel so good coughing 2k++ for the idsd


----------



## vonBaron

Just any DAC.


----------



## arch023

Im currently using a chord mojo for it. I was still thinking about what dedicated dac to get when the pandemic hits and i had to leave the us. Im inquiring for when i get back. Is qutest a good choice?


----------



## Swisshead (Jul 12, 2020)

arch023 said:


> Whats a good dac to go with this? I dont feel so good coughing 2k++ for the idsd



RME ADI-2. Perfect choice. Harmonizes perfectly. Plus, you got EQ, loudness, bass and treble controls. I highly recommend it. Cost a good $1,000.


----------



## vonBaron

arch023 said:


> Im currently using a chord mojo for it. I was still thinking about what dedicated dac to get when the pandemic hits and i had to leave the us. Im inquiring for when i get back. Is qutest a good choice?


I think Qutest is fine choice .


----------



## arch023

oh man totally forgot about the rme adi 2. I do remember how hard it was for me to purchase it, there is no authorized seller in the us. It fits around my budget. 1k is the sweet spot.

i also like how the ican is so versatile, by itself i find my self fiddling with settings for my different headsets and iems to fill in the flaws.


----------



## arch023

actually i’ve been thinking, is the ican pro overkill? If im only gonna use them for focal clears, anole vx and andromeda and h6xx? i was thinking maybe just selling the ican and getting a dac amp stack for 1k since i dont really have large headsets that are power hungry.


----------



## Swisshead

Yeah, that's overkill. For them, the ADI alone is easily enough. You can buy the iCan later if you have the appropriate headphones.


----------



## arch023

Swisshead said:


> Yeah, that's overkill. For them, the ADI alone is easily enough. You can buy the iCan later if you have the appropriate headphones.


The thing is that i already have an ican. I was planning the meze empyrean but i dont think i will in this economic mess. i dont have any plans on purchasing more headsets unless i get a really good deal. Should i still sell the ican? Or get the rme and try it by itself vs with the ican before i decide?


----------



## arch023

I do plan on buying a gear that is more emphasized on vocals tho. But i havent decided whether it being an iem or headphones


----------



## makan

arch023 said:


> The thing is that i already have an ican. I was planning the meze empyrean but i dont think i will in this economic mess. i dont have any plans on purchasing more headsets unless i get a really good deal. Should i still sell the ican? Or get the rme and try it by itself vs with the ican before i decide?


I have an rme adi-2 pro fs and ican pro. I have been self-debating to sell the ican pro, as my pro fs balanced can drive my LCD-4, Akg k1000 and he-6....but they ican pro I still think provide better soundstage and bass clarity...not sure if it is placebo. I figure if I can afford it, I will keep the ican pro


----------



## robo24

I'd think the Qutest would be good, as I love my Hugo 2 with it. You can get a used Hugo 2 for the price of a Qutest, have the portability and cross-feed options to boot. The Soekris 1421 or 1541 too. It's kind of a tossup for me between the 1421 & Hugo I have. The Hugo definitely provides a wider soundstage than the Mojo when used directly, so I assume that's true when connected to the iCAN (no longer have a Mojo to compare). I also loved the Airist R2R from Drop for the price. I have the SMSL-SU8 balanced DAC connected to it too, and it's excellent for the price, especially if you can't hear much difference between DACs.

The iCAN is kind of overkill for most headphones, really, which is what makes it so fantastic. I'd keep it if you have it. The 6XX are 300 ohm and definitely benefit from more power. Even going past 12 o'clock on the volume with 0 gain can be too loud. Try rolling WE396A tubes once your warranty is up on it. It's excellent with ZMFs if you ever go for those.


----------



## arch023

I think i might get the rme. Just because of price. Im thinking to buy another headset to complement the amp. Considering my current iem/hp collection, whats a good one that compliments the amp and the collection?


----------



## robo24

arch023 said:


> I think i might get the rme. Just because of price. Im thinking to buy another headset to complement the amp. Considering my current iem/hp collection, whats a good one that compliments the amp and the collection?


If you like the 6XX I think it's very likely you'll like the ZMF Aeolus and Atticus.


----------



## arch023

Its been a long time since I have listened to the hd6xx but I remember it being abit too laid back for my liking. More detail would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## arch023

I heard hd6xx scale really well with the right dac and amp synergy. Maybe i don’t have the right gear. But the clears go really well with the ican. I usually go tube and bass boost abit and they sound phenomenal. I guess ican’s versatility solves the clears’ tendency to sound abit metallic. I don’t have much use for 3d tho


----------



## iFi audio

arch023 said:


> Its been a long time since I have listened to the hd6xx but I remember it being abit too laid back for my liking. More detail would be greatly appreciated.





arch023 said:


> I heard hd6xx scale really well with the right dac and amp synergy. Maybe i don’t have the right gear. But the clears go really well with the ican. I usually go tube and bass boost abit and they sound phenomenal. I guess ican’s versatility solves the clears’ tendency to sound abit metallic. I don’t have much use for 3d tho



As for HD 6XX, you might want to take a look at ZEN CAN Signature 6XX tailored for these cans:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...e-6xx-zen-dac-signature.936743/#post-15722307


----------



## xcom (Jul 21, 2020)

iFi audio said:


> Sure, please do!



Remote is finally here. Is a brick for sure, but goes well with the iCan Pro 
I was able to learn the volume up but oddly not the volume down.
I was able to learn all of the Schiit BF2 codes so that's a plus.
I wonder why wolume down does not learn 

Edit: I got the volume down to learn, you must hold volume down instead of one click.


----------



## iFi audio

xcom said:


> Remote is finally here. Is a brick for sure, but goes well with the iCan Pro
> I was able to learn the volume up but oddly not the volume down.
> I was able to learn all of the Schiit BF2 codes so that's a plus.
> I wonder why wolume down does not learn
> ...



As I wrote in another post, that's very cool!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Does anybody here have the chance to directly compare an ifi Pro idsd/Pro iCan vs the Chord Hugo TT2??? I, and I am sure many others, would be very interested to hear more about this comparison.


----------



## ufospls2

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Does anybody here have the chance to directly compare an ifi Pro idsd/Pro iCan vs the Chord Hugo TT2??? I, and I am sure many others, would be very interested to hear more about this comparison.



Not directly, but I've had all three. If you are using the XLR outputs on the rear of the HTT2, it seems pretty similar to the Pro iCAN in terms of power. The HTT2 is bit more clear, and also brighter than the Pro iDSD. 

What would you specifically like to know? I can try and do a comparison from memory, which is maybe better than nothing for you


----------



## vonBaron

I aggre with that, i don't really like this bright sound of TT2 but it is more precise than Pro IDSD.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ufospls2 said:


> Not directly, but I've had all three. If you are using the XLR outputs on the rear of the HTT2, it seems pretty similar to the Pro iCAN in terms of power. The HTT2 is bit more clear, and also brighter than the Pro iDSD.
> 
> What would you specifically like to know? I can try and do a comparison from memory, which is maybe better than nothing for you



Hi there, I am mostly interested in clarity and "spatial awareness", I mean which of the two creates the more holographic image for an utopia and final a8000. And may be also general observations ... e.g. I had the Hugo2, and despite all the glowing reviews I was somewhat disappointed with the single USB (and of all the micro b) port ... do you see similar shortcomings?  Thanks for sharing your insights.


----------



## makan (Jul 31, 2020)

ufospls2 said:


> Not directly, but I've had all three. If you are using the XLR outputs on the rear of the HTT2, it seems pretty similar to the Pro iCAN in terms of power. The HTT2 is bit more clear, and also brighter than the Pro iDSD.
> 
> What would you specifically like to know? I can try and do a comparison from memory, which is maybe better than nothing for you


How did you find the abyss 1266 between the TT2 and pro ican....I am debating on giving the TT2 a shot.  I have the pro ican right now and just got the abyss in


----------



## ufospls2

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi there, I am mostly interested in clarity and "spatial awareness", I mean which of the two creates the more holographic image for an utopia and final a8000. And may be also general observations ... e.g. I had the Hugo2, and despite all the glowing reviews I was somewhat disappointed with the single USB (and of all the micro b) port ... do you see similar shortcomings?  Thanks for sharing your insights.



Hmm. Clarity probably goes to the HTT2. Spatial awareness, probably the TT2 as well, but it would be close i think. TT2 is a much better unit in terms of usability than the regular Hugo 2. I'd be worried the Utopia with the HTT2 would be overly bright however. I haven't heard the A8000 sadly. 






makan said:


> How did you find the abyss 1266 between the TT2 and pro ican....I am debating on giving the TT2 a shot.  I have the pro ican right now and just got the abyss in



Honestly, considering the vast price difference and the fact you already have the Pro iCAN, it might not be worth it. What DAC are you using with the iCAN currently? It also depends on your needs and space requirements, as the HTT2 is a really neat all in one, probably the best on the market, and that really appeals to some people.


----------



## makan

Honestly, considering the vast price difference and the fact you already have the Pro iCAN, it might not be worth it. What DAC are you using with the iCAN currently? It also depends on your needs and space requirements, as the HTT2 is a really neat all in one, probably the best on the market, and that really appeals to some people.
[/QUOTE]
I am using the ADI-2 pro for a DAC. I have no complaints and to be honest, my ears do not perceive much difference from DAC to DAC.


----------



## ufospls2

makan said:


> Honestly, considering the vast price difference and the fact you already have the Pro iCAN, it might not be worth it. What DAC are you using with the iCAN currently? It also depends on your needs and space requirements, as the HTT2 is a really neat all in one, probably the best on the market, and that really appeals to some people.


I am using the ADI-2 pro for a DAC. I have no complaints and to be honest, my ears do not perceive much difference from DAC to DAC.
[/QUOTE]

I'd stick with your current set up then, unless you get an unbelievably smoking deal on the HTT2 or something.


----------



## makan

ufospls2 said:


> I am using the ADI-2 pro for a DAC. I have no complaints and to be honest, my ears do not perceive much difference from DAC to DAC.



I'd stick with your current set up then, unless you get an unbelievably smoking deal on the HTT2 or something.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. It seems to drive my Susvara nicely too. Got it keep the upgraditis virus away.


----------



## kenray536

I just bought an IFi iESL for my STAX L700s.

I have the the chance to buy a used iCan or use an amp I already have in the list below.

What would you do?
Is the iCan a lot better than these amps?

1) Monoprice Liquid Platinum Alex Cavalli https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33305
2) monoprice THX 788
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24459
3) Parasound Zdac v2
https://parasound.com/zdac-v2.php

Thanks in advance for the help!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

kenray536 said:


> I just bought an IFi iESL for my STAX L700s.
> 
> I have the the chance to buy a used iCan or use an amp I already have in the list below.
> 
> ...



Sell all of the amps above and get the ICan pro. That’s at least what I did with all my amps, and it drives my abyss ab-1266 very nice indeed. Plus, you can get rid of all your desk clutter, the two units will stack neatly.


----------



## makan

kenray536 said:


> I just bought an IFi iESL for my STAX L700s.
> 
> I have the the chance to buy a used iCan or use an amp I already have in the list below.
> 
> ...


The Ifi pro would connect seamlessly with the iESL. It drives my Akg k1000, He-6, susvara and Phi TC adequately....so really drives pretty well all headphones except electrostatics and RAAL SR1A.


----------



## kenray536 (Aug 2, 2020)

makan said:


> The Ifi pro would connect seamlessly with the iESL. It drives my Akg k1000, He-6, susvara and Phi TC adequately....so really drives pretty well all headphones except electrostatics and RAAL SR1A.



Is the the iCan basically an almost end game amp that should last me a lot of years?

Is it still one of the top headphone amps even though it’s been out a couple of years?

Thanks


----------



## Ficcion2 (Aug 2, 2020)

Any iCan owners that can compare against the Vioelectric 280? Mostly looking for a SS to drive planars.


----------



## iFi audio (Aug 3, 2020)

kenray536 said:


> Is it still one of the top headphone amps even though it’s been out a couple of years?



Certainly it's one of the most versatile ones even today 

But if you have iESL, it forms a nice package with Pro iCAN, that's for sure.


----------



## saunaboi17

I got an ifi ican pro off eBay for $1080 and have been testing it out today! I have the ZMF Aeolus and have been playing vinyl on an Audio Technica LP-7. (I also have a Bifrost 2 that its stacked on but I’m waiting for some XLR cables to come In the mail before I use the dac.)

Anyways the ican pro sounds great and paired with the Aeolus is definitely my preferred sound signature. It’s certainly not as big of a leap in sound quality as when I first heard a Bottlehead crack with speedball though. Going back and forth between the BHC and iCan (on SS), I notice a very slight increase in detail and separation between instruments that I’d have trouble noticing in an A/B test. Maybe there would be more of a leap in sound quality if I was running the Aeolus balanced, but its not the most revealing headphone in the first place.

I cant praise ifi enough for their xBass feature. It’s not slight at all. With my BHC, I’d have to raise the volume to louder/ ear damaging levels to get the amount of thump I get on the iCan at normal  listening volume. Records like J Dilla Donuts really come alive with this feature cracked up to 20-40 Hz. The tube modes were a very slight difference with the already warm sound sig of the Aeolus. I think I’d only switch to tube if I wanted the orange light on for ambiance lol. I’ve heard this light isn’t even from tubes and I would’ve much preferred it to always be on. The 3D feature is also pretty subtle but I enjoy a little spaciousness being added to the intimate sound sig of the Aeolus. I’ve heard many reviewers say they arent fans of these tweaking features, but I love what they add and enjoy the saved space/ money from tailoring the iCan to each headphone vs. heaving to buy different upstream gear for each headphone.

One issue I’m having is that I was looking forward to utilizing the iCans preamp and bypassing my turntables built in preamp which I assume isn’t that great. However, when I switch my turntable to Phono, the iCan can barely pick up the signal. At max gain and max volume my Aeolus was still below normal listening levels. So I’ve just been running my turntables built in preamp into the iCan. This doesn’t seem right so if someone knows what I’m doing wrong let me know.

All in all, I think this amp will last me for a long time. I don’t think I could get a better sounding amp without dumping ridiculous amounts of money and when I buy more headphones I’ll be able to take advantage of this amps versatility and avoid having to buy a matching amp.


----------



## technobear

saunaboi17 said:


> One issue I’m having is that I was looking forward to utilizing the iCans preamp and bypassing my turntables built in preamp which I assume isn’t that great. However, when I switch my turntable to Phono, the iCan can barely pick up the signal. At max gain and max volume my Aeolus was still below normal listening levels. So I’ve just been running my turntables built in preamp into the iCan. This doesn’t seem right so if someone knows what I’m doing wrong let me know.


Phono cartridges only produce a very small signal. A phono pre-amp is required to bring it up to line level. Also records are not flat so the phono pre-amp has to equalise the signal.

The Pro iCAN doesn't have a phono input. You can use the phono pre-amp in your AT or you can buy a separate one (iFi make a good one, the iPhono, now in it's third generation).


----------



## saunaboi17

^ahh yep that makes total sense. Another thing I’m noticing is that the 6.3mm right output jack has some play, so when I’m moving the cable around or spinning the headphone jack, it causes cracks and pops and messes with the signal. Maybe Its due to the amp being purchased used, but this doesn’t happen at all with the BHC output jack and shouldn’t happen at this price range. It’s not causing any issues when the cable isn’t moving, so I’m not sure if it warrants a return.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

saunaboi17 said:


> Maybe Its due to the amp being purchased used, but this doesn’t happen at all with the BHC output jack and shouldn’t happen at this price range.



No relation to the price, at least I do not have any issues like this with my unit.


----------



## technobear

saunaboi17 said:


> ^ahh yep that makes total sense. Another thing I’m noticing is that the 6.3mm right output jack has some play, so when I’m moving the cable around or spinning the headphone jack, it causes cracks and pops and messes with the signal. Maybe Its due to the amp being purchased used, but this doesn’t happen at all with the BHC output jack and shouldn’t happen at this price range. It’s not causing any issues when the cable isn’t moving, so I’m not sure if it warrants a return.


It warrants contact cleaner.


----------



## Coztomba

This amp has ALMOST everything I want.  I just wish you could choose the output, or have a switch to disable the rear outputs.  I want to use it as a preamp for my monitors as well as a headphone amp but having it output to everything at once is a pain.  It's the only thing holding me back.


----------



## ThanatosVI

So can someone compare this one vs. A Bryston BHA-1 when paired with the Meze Empyrean?

Can it compare in sound quality or does it trade some for the Bonus Features over the Bryston?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

After reading the whole thread the iCan doesn't fit my bill anymore. 
It's really sad that it can't be connected to both, a headphone and active speakers.

I like the versatility of this little gem, but without the ability to drive both (not simultaneously  ) it doesn't make sense to me.

With the R28 it's easy to switch between headphones and the Elac Air-X 407 by just push a single button.


----------



## dcguy73

I tried an experiment today. I plugged my iCan Pro directly into a Keces P8 12V-13V DC power supply. I wish I had a 15V/16V power supply, but I worked with what I had. Despite the iCan Pro having higher "ideal" power requirements, it seems to work just fine being powered with 12.2V/2A. 

The sound is tighter and more impactful vs. the standard iPower supply that comes with the iCan Pro. Not a giant difference, but significant enough.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Oh. My tubes finally arrived. Rather horrified putting them in because I have never done such a thing ....


----------



## dcguy73 (Sep 11, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Oh. My tubes finally arrived. Rather horrified putting them in because I have never done such a thing ....



At least for the iCan Pro, there's a video on YouTube showing how to take it apart...I think I have pictures as well if you need help.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Thanks, I'll check out the video first. I gathered from this forum that it will be rather hard to pull the original tubes from the iCan Pro. ...


----------



## vonBaron

You just must wiggle and gently pull tubes and the will come out, same thing when you putting new one.


----------



## gto88

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Thanks, I'll check out the video first. I gathered from this forum that it will be rather hard to pull the original tubes from the iCan Pro. ...


In that case, you better guard the other end when you pull it.
i had bad experience when pulling something tight and end up hit the other end when it finally came out...


----------



## robo24 (Sep 11, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Oh. My tubes finally arrived. Rather horrified putting them in because I have never done such a thing ....


Had to try 3 pairs before I found a matched pair that worked without immediately overheating it. Even the ones that don't still do on very warm days. The 2 sets of D getters didn't work, but work fine with an adaptor in my Valhalla 2, so I'm using the O getters in the iCAN. So much more enjoyable and gives the iCAN 3 very distinct modes, whereas with the 5670s I could barely tell the difference, especially between the 2 tube modes.

Also, ignore the video showing the front part being removed. Just need to do the ones on the back to get the case off and swap tubes.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

robo24 said:


> The 2 sets of D getters didn't work, but work fine with an adaptor in my Valhalla 2, so I'm using the O getters in the iCAN.



Thanks - although I must admit that this is part why I am not sure if I should do this ... when I have no clue what is being talked about . 
D-getters. O-getters?


----------



## robo24

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Thanks - although I must admit that this is part why I am not sure if I should do this ... when I have no clue what is being talked about .
> D-getters. O-getters?


No worries, as I barely understand it myself. Maybe it's earlier in this thread, but there are 2 types of these and it seems like the D getters are more valued and considered superior to the later design O-getters.

You'll likely find out pretty quickly if they work. It should be ready to use in the same amount of time as with stock tubes, and if it cuts out and the ifi light becomes red, it's gone into overheating protection mode. If so, just give up and put the stock tubes back in.


----------



## Louisiana

On Saturday, i will get a pair of Bendix 6385 NOS Tubes.
I'm really curious to see whether the money will be worth it and whether I will notice a difference.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Ok, installation of the 396a tubes done. The wiggling part requires some care, but so far it worked out. I am letting the tubes run a bit for checking before closing the unit again.

Time for a beer.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Oct 8, 2021)

The firs couple of hours with the WA396A: Clear upgrade. Before changing the tubes, I could only hear a minor difference between the SS and tube mode. The difference is very clear now, with the wonderful clean profile of the solid state, and the warmth of the tube sound on the other side of the spectrum. Love my iCan Pro.


----------



## Focux

hey all, is there anyone here who owns or has owned the GSX Mini and the iCan Pro? 

any thoughts on which you prefer and why? thank in advance!


----------



## vonBaron

I have them both.
I like my Abyss 1266 better with GS-X mini, soundstage is bigger and has better holographic, i like this warm touch to the sound.
ICan has more shouty midrange, i like it with mu Final D8000.
So Abyss>GS-X mini, D8000>ICan.


----------



## vonBaron

And if you buy ICan only for SS mode buy GS-X mini instead.


----------



## robo24

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The firs couple of hours with the WA396A: Clear upgrade. Before changing the tubes, I could only hear a minor difference between the SS and tube mode. The difference is very clear now, with the wonderful clear profile of the solid state, and the warmth of the tube sound on the other side of the spectrum. Love my iCan Pro.


Congrats! It is quite a difference, isn't it? I prefer the same tubes in the iCan over them in the Valhalla 2, which is an OTL. Any overheating issues with the cover back after using it in tube mode for hours?


----------



## vonBaron

I don't have any overheating problem even in summer, and my ICan can get really warm.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

robo24 said:


> Congrats! It is quite a difference, isn't it? I prefer the same tubes in the iCan over them in the Valhalla 2, which is an OTL. Any overheating issues with the cover back after using it in tube mode for hours?



Thankfully, not yet. It is now running for 8 hours. The cover is really quite hot but so far so good.


----------



## robo24

vonBaron said:


> I don't have any overheating problem even in summer, and my ICan can get really warm.


Unfortunately it's basically 70-85F in my home and humidity typically 50-75% I've had problems with a Hugo 2 overheating too. With the iESL especially, it easily overheats. I keep a fan on it full time now.


----------



## dcguy73

vonBaron said:


> I have them both.
> I like my Abyss 1266 better with GS-X mini, soundstage is bigger and has better holographic, i like this warm touch to the sound.
> ICan has more shouty midrange, i like it with mu Final D8000.
> So Abyss>GS-X mini, D8000>ICan.



The iCan Pro sounds great with my Sennheiser 800S. They can be a bit bright and thin-sounding if not paired well, and the iCan adds some warmth and body.


----------



## Slim1970

dcguy73 said:


> The iCan Pro sounds great with my Sennheiser 800S. They can be a bit bright and thin-sounding if not paired well, and the iCan adds some warmth and body.


When I had the Pro iCan, the HD800S's were one of my favorite headphones to listen too with it. Especially with xBass added.


----------



## Louisiana

Today I changed my tubes - Bendix 6385.
The first thing I noticed is that @iFi audio should work on its quality management.
Something of the ceramic broke off on the right isulator,like you can see on the pictures.
The damage on the isolator was BEFORE i changed the tubes 
But dosn't matter, everything works fine.


----------



## vonBaron

If someone want to sell pair of Bendix tubes please let me know.


----------



## Louisiana

vonBaron said:


> If someone want to sell pair of Bendix tubes please let me know.



I had a lot of luck, to find a pair of this beautys 
If i ever want to sell, i let you know.


----------



## Louisiana




----------



## Hoegaardener70

Louisiana said:


>



what are these seals? And do I need them?


----------



## dcguy73 (Sep 23, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> what are these seals? And do I need them?



@Louisiana, do those Audioquest RCA/XLR covers actually improve the sound quality of the amp? They’re pretty, but I haven’t read any testimonials or reviews that say they have a positive effect.


----------



## vonBaron

I just buy pair of Bendix tubes, i hope they will work...


----------



## Louisiana

dcguy73 said:


> @Louisiana, do those Audioquest RCA/XLR covers actually improve the sound quality of the amp? They’re pretty, but I haven’t read any testimonials or reviews that say they have a positive effect.



My System sounds so nice, with or without them, its just for the "look & feel" - i realy like gimmicks like this 



vonBaron said:


> I just buy pair of Bendix tubes, i hope they will work...


Please report here, if they will 
May i ask for the price?
For mine, i paid 320€.


----------



## vonBaron

I paid 150$
But they don't NOS.


----------



## Louisiana

If they don't work well, here is a good alternative for you:
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/5670-ge-5-star-usa-nos/nib?number=S5670-5-STAR-MP

Tubeampdoctor is top, good support, fast Shipping, no problems at all


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Louisiana said:


> If they don't work well, here is a good alternative for you:
> https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/5670-ge-5-star-usa-nos/nib?number=S5670-5-STAR-MP
> 
> Tubeampdoctor is top, good support, fast Shipping, no problems at all


What’s the difference between these and my “normal” we396a?


----------



## vonBaron

Susvara sound even better with Pro ICan (Tube WE396A) than GS-X mini.


----------



## Ross Kyle

vonBaron said:


> Susvara sound even better with Pro ICan (Tube WE396A) than GS-X mini.


 interesting , I have 396A WE tubes coming on tuesday for both my Pro IDSD and Pro Ican . im sure my Susvara will agree


----------



## Strayngs

vonBaron said:


> Susvara sound even better with Pro ICan (Tube WE396A) than GS-X mini.


How did you like the Rad-0 with it. Most of my cans sounded OK with it but the Rosson was special with it in my opinion.


----------



## Ross Kyle




----------



## vonBaron

Strayngs said:


> How did you like the Rad-0 with it. Most of my cans sounded OK with it but the Rosson was special with it in my opinion.


I sold my RAD-0.


----------



## vonBaron

Look what arrive! 
Super fast shipping from USA. 
I hope they will work.


----------



## vonBaron

Well i find Bendix tubes better than WE396A, better soundstage, better highs, bass is more elegant.


----------



## Gippy

I wonder if anyone else has this issue...

If there is balanced input, and then the selector is switched to one of the three RCA inputs, I hear a little bit of the balanced input when the volume dial is turned up all the way. Just make sure there's no RCA input before doing this.

I don't use the RCA inputs, but if others have that issue, then that is a huge strike against this amplifier.


----------



## Ross Kyle

Gippy said:


> I wonder if anyone else has this issue...
> 
> If there is balanced input, and then the selector is switched to one of the three RCA inputs, I hear a little bit of the balanced input when the volume dial is turned up all the way. Just make sure there's no RCA input before doing this.
> 
> I don't use the RCA inputs, but if others have that issue, then that is a huge strike against this amplifier.


Crosstalk is kinda inevitable but the fact tying have to have the volume knob cranked doesn’t make it an issue


----------



## vonBaron

Is Pro ICan 2 comming?


----------



## gto88

there is a iCan 2?


----------



## vonBaron

No,but maybe sometime it will come.


----------



## Gene4797

Hey guys, I just bought Ican Pro and I should receive tomorrow , my question is, if someone try to use Denafrips Area 2 Dac with Ican and how it’s sound together? Thank you


----------



## robo24

I had the Ares 1 briefly (which is almost the same with different filters I can't hear a difference for anyway) with it and it's an excellent DAC for the price being R-2R. Nevertheless the Soekris 1421 (similarly priced with included amp) for a little more is a much better option and I kept it and sold the Ares.


----------



## gto88

Gene4797 said:


> Hey guys, I just bought Ican Pro and I should receive tomorrow , my question is, if someone try to use Denafrips Area 2 Dac with Ican and how it’s sound together? Thank you


I am using that combo, it is considered my end game setup.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

robo24 said:


> I had the Ares 1 briefly (which is almost the same with different filters I can't hear a difference for anyway) with it and it's an excellent DAC for the price being R-2R. Nevertheless the Soekris 1421 (similarly priced with included amp) for a little more is a much better option and I kept it and sold the Ares.



Does the Soekris provide a more analytical sound, more detail? I tried the Ares II with my tube amp and found that warm with warm does not go well together since too much detail was lost. Does the Soekris provide more detail / instrument separation?


----------



## robo24

Yes. It's not a warm DAC like the Airist, and about the same are the Ares, but it's more detailed. One of the most obvious things which made it preferred (since the iCAN makes evaluating up to 4 DACS quite easy) was some acoustic guitar in a song on the 1421 were very clear and at the extremes of the soundstage. On the Ares, not only could I barely hear it, but it was mushed towards the center. The more I compared the more I felt like I was missing and that the 1421 is just more clear. The 1421 was unbalanced and the Ares was connected balanced.


----------



## Gene4797

Guys thank you so much for yours opinion,I really appreciate!!! I also have Phonitor X with Dac and seems to me Phonitor sound little better, more details and more meat, but anyway now I’m hooked to Ican . 
What you think is make a sense to change usb cable for Hifi one , I mean cable from comp to Dac?


----------



## robo24

vonBaron said:


> I aggre with that, i don't really like this bright sound of TT2 but it is more precise than Pro IDSD.


Anyone compare the TT2 vs. TT2 as DAC to Pro iCAN in SS mode?
 I’m considering selling off most things and ending up with a TT2 as TOTL SS amp and driving Glenn OTL once that arrives. However I want to be sure the amp on the TT2 sounds good as or better than the iCAN as a SS amap. I love the iCAN with the Hugo 2.


----------



## Slim1970

robo24 said:


> Anyone compare the TT2 vs. TT2 as DAC to Pro iCAN in SS mode?
> I’m considering selling off most things and ending up with a TT2 as TOTL SS amp and driving Glenn OTL once that arrives. However I want to be sure the amp on the TT2 sounds good as or better than the iCAN as a SS amap. I love the iCAN with the Hugo 2.


To me, the TT2‘s amp section is good but it’s not as good as the Pro iCan’s amp section. It’s definitely a better DAC


----------



## vonBaron

Bendix tubes are simply amazing with Pro ICan!


----------



## Burakk

robo24 said:


> Anyone compare the TT2 vs. TT2 as DAC to Pro iCAN in SS mode?
> I’m considering selling off most things and ending up with a TT2 as TOTL SS amp and driving Glenn OTL once that arrives. However I want to be sure the amp on the TT2 sounds good as or better than the iCAN as a SS amap. I love the iCAN with the Hugo 2.


I have this setup. Tt2 as a dac to iCan for 1266 TC Phi. Having said, as amp iCan is better if you have power hungry headphone. But, if you have an easy to drive full size, I would suggest to use TT2 as a dac/amp. Please consider, I’m comparing SS mode of iCan. Using iCan in tube mode with TT2, gives me best result for me.


----------



## littlej0e

Anyone know where I can find a good tube rolling guide for the iFi Pro iCAN? I just picked up a used one from Reddit, along with a couple of WE396As from eBay, and I want to make sure I don't screw it up.


----------



## Ross Kyle

littlej0e said:


> Anyone know where I can find a good tube rolling guide for the iFi Pro iCAN? I just picked up a used one from Reddit, along with a couple of WE396As from eBay, and I want to make sure I don't screw it up.






Take 4 retaining rods out from the back using screwdriver , then the rest , plate comes off back then you can slide PCB out


----------



## littlej0e

Ross Kyle said:


> Take 4 retaining rods out from the back using screwdriver , then the rest , plate comes off back then you can slide PCB out




Thank you SO much!


----------



## littlej0e

Ross Kyle said:


> Take 4 retaining rods out from the back using screwdriver , then the rest , plate comes off back then you can slide PCB out




I was sweating this because i didn't want to break anything, but truth be told it was stupid easy. Thanks again for the link + guidance!


----------



## Ross Kyle

littlej0e said:


> I was sweating this because i didn't want to break anything, but truth be told it was stupid easy. Thanks again for the link + guidance!


 I was too tbh , as long as you are not tough with pulling tubes out it’s a simple breakdown , i have WE396As in mine too also in the IDSD hehe


----------



## robo24

I put the GE 5 star in mine recently and couldn't be happier. About $50 for a matched pair. Quite an upgrade over stock and I'm finding I like them as much as the WE396A. If you go with those, I and others have had heat issues with them. I had 2 different matched pairs which would send the amp into protection mode until I found some O getter ones which worked fine. Those same tubes had no issues in a Valhalla 2. I'm someone who found little difference between the 3 modes with stock tubes, but find them all distinctly different with other tubes.


----------



## littlej0e

robo24 said:


> I put the GE 5 star in mine recently and couldn't be happier. About $50 for a matched pair. Quite an upgrade over stock and I'm finding I like them as much as the WE396A. If you go with those, I and others have had heat issues with them. I had 2 different matched pairs which would send the amp into protection mode until I found some O getter ones which worked fine. Those same tubes had no issues in a Valhalla 2. I'm someone who found little difference between the 3 modes with stock tubes, but find them all distinctly different with other tubes.



Appreciate the info! Seems like the WE396As are hit or miss with the iCAN. I saw a few folks on Reddit had problems with O getters going into protection mode as well. I really hope the WEs work though. I picked up a pair from a random antique collector on eBay for $70 (unmatched)
manufactured in 1958. Was approx. half the price of a fully matched set. I guess time will tell if they work out. Regardless, appreciate the info about the GE 5s. I'll definitely look into them if my WEs fail or the iCAN goes into protection mode.


----------



## littlej0e

robo24 said:


> I put the GE 5 star in mine recently and couldn't be happier. About $50 for a matched pair. Quite an upgrade over stock and I'm finding I like them as much as the WE396A. If you go with those, I and others have had heat issues with them. I had 2 different matched pairs which would send the amp into protection mode until I found some O getter ones which worked fine. Those same tubes had no issues in a Valhalla 2. I'm someone who found little difference between the 3 modes with stock tubes, but find them all distinctly different with other tubes.


Forgot to ask... 

How would you characterize the sound comparex to the stock tubes and the WE396As?


----------



## robo24

littlej0e said:


> Appreciate the info! Seems like the WE396As are hit or miss with the iCAN. I saw a few folks on Reddit had problems with O getters going into protection mode as well. I really hope the WEs work though. I picked up a pair from a random antique collector on eBay for $70 (unmatched)
> manufactured in 1958. Was approx. half the price of a fully matched set. I guess time will tell if they work out. Regardless, appreciate the info about the GE 5s. I'll definitely look into them if my WEs fail or the iCAN goes into protection mode.


Feel free to DM me if needed. It was interesting because the 2 sets of D getters were the problematic ones, while the O getters worked fine. 

As for the 5 stars vs. stock, I'm terrible with sound memory and swapping tubes is a bit of a pain, but really all I can say with any confidence is that they are distinctly different while with stock I struggled to find much difference between the 2 tubes modes and solid state. Like the WE 396A they produce a wide soundstage. 

audiotubes.com has a number of compatible matched sets including some Raytheon versions which also worked well. The 5 stars were from arizonatubesupply.com


----------



## Ross Kyle

I got the rarer WE ones but lucky with being matched but also no protection mode in either ican or IDSD


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone compared pro ican with the burson soloist 3x performance?


----------



## arch023

I'm returning to the states in 2 weeks. Can someone recommend me some headphones that would match well with the Ican pro? I want something quite different from the Clears. I'm still using mojo in my chain as any dac upgrades would be costly and i'd rather get more headphones. I have been more on IEMS than headphones, so this is a new world for me.


----------



## robo24

arch023 said:


> I'm returning to the states in 2 weeks. Can someone recommend me some headphones that would match well with the Ican pro? I want something quite different from the Clears. I'm still using mojo in my chain as any dac upgrades would be costly and i'd rather get more headphones. I have been more on IEMS than headphones, so this is a new world for me.


All the ZMFs I've owned (everything except the Eikon, which is on order) are excellent with the iCAN. Virtually all my listening is on the iCAN with either the Hugo 2 or Soekris 1421 as DAC.


----------



## arch023

robo24 said:


> All the ZMFs I've owned (everything except the Eikon, which is on order) are excellent with the iCAN. Virtually all my listening is on the iCAN with either the Hugo 2 or Soekris 1421 as DAC.


Mind giving me some tips of the specs, like cable and pads. I'm thinking of the atticus or aelous. Looking for a more pushed back presentation and not as much in your face like the clear. From my research the eikon and the auteur are more neutral in tuning, which i already have the anole vx and clears for.


----------



## robo24

Cables I can't hear differences in so to me even the stock one is fine, and the upgrade OFC for $60 is also excellent. Padwise, I've only had/heard suede when leather is stock, so others may be better for that. What I prefer are Aeolus-Universe Suede, Atticus-Ori suede, Auteur-Eikon suede, VO Universe or BE-2 suede, & VC Universe suede.

I've only had a short listen to the Clear 2 years ago, but owned the Elex which many find similar. The Elex had a pretty narrow soundstage, but I'd say really all the ZMFs have wider soundstages than the Elex. The Verite Open is the only one that feels more pushed back. 

The Aeolus is probably the safest pick. I sold mine mostly because I find it similar to the Atticus and not as fun and a lesser version of the Verite Open which I purchased before the Aeolus. If I could only keep 1 open and 1 closed it would be the Auteur & the Verite Closed.


----------



## Ross Kyle

HD800S on full tube plus is a delight also , not that’s it’s bad on SS just tubes suit it on ican


----------



## arch023

I was actually on the fence of hd800s, zmfs or arya or a prefazor lcd2s. But i think i want to try something warm and fun this time. Ive been trying all close to neutrals, yet never tasted some high end warmer iem/heaphones. The warmest I've gone is my old vsonic gr07 and some vmodas. The warmest i currently have is probably the andromedas. Im scared i would find the hd800s too thin. i think ill go with aeolus, as I'm used to alot of treble and the atticus may be too laidback in the treble.


----------



## chaz_flhr

[


arch023 said:


> Mind giving me some tips of the specs, like cable and pads. I'm thinking of the atticus or aelous. Looking for a more pushed back presentation and not as much in your face like the clear. From my research the eikon and the auteur are more neutral in tuning, which i already have the anole vx and clears for.


Try a Stellia or take your amp to audition whatever headphone you are looking at.


----------



## arch023

Stellia is way out of my price range. Not sure where we can audition gear around SoCal. would be nice tho.


----------



## robo24

If warm and fun is your criteria, then Atticus is your best bet.


----------



## Ross Kyle

arch023 said:


> I was actually on the fence of hd800s, zmfs or arya or a prefazor lcd2s. But i think i want to try something warm and fun this time. Ive been trying all close to neutrals, yet never tasted some high end warmer iem/heaphones. The warmest I've gone is my old vsonic gr07 and some vmodas. The warmest i currently have is probably the andromedas. Im scared i would find the hd800s too thin. i think ill go with aeolus, as I'm used to alot of treble and the atticus may be too laidback in the treble.


 HD800s smooth out with tubes that kick of warmth , if anything just use Xbass it thickens it bass / lower mids wise , already has spectacular mids / treble


----------



## Sebastien Chiu

arch023 said:


> Mind giving me some tips of the specs, like cable and pads. I'm thinking of the atticus or aelous. Looking for a more pushed back presentation and not as much in your face like the clear. From my research the eikon and the auteur are more neutral in tuning, which i already have the anole vx and clears for.



Aeolus or the Attitcus is on the top of my "sell everything, quit audio, and get one headphone" kind of list. I'll get there eventually!


----------



## PY034

Just rolled the tubes on both ican and idsd! I would highly recommend rolling the tubes.


----------



## alekc

PY034 said:


> Just rolled the tubes on both ican and idsd! I would highly recommend rolling the tubes.



Very nice setup  Congrats. 

Could you write a small comparison with TT2 & M-Scaler? 

Which tubes do you recommend for iCan?


----------



## chaz_flhr

PY034 said:


> Just rolled the tubes on both ican and idsd! I would highly recommend rolling the tubes.


Stellia is amazing on ican balanced from node 2i, I can't wait to roll some tubes.
The xbass on lowest setting and 3d off is the sweet spot for me on Stellia.
Radiance also sounds great on ican but with 3d on reg speaker placement adds a little more spaciousness.
Hopefully rolling some tubes will give more of a change in sig when going to tube or tube +, my favorite for Stellia.
Just have to decide which tubes will be best.
Any recommendations, nothing mid forward or treblely, classic rock, some jazz, new age and some EDM.


----------



## arch023

I think ill wait for some good LTDs for the aeolus or atticus. Really love the look of the zebra wood atticus.


----------



## Louisiana

alekc said:


> Which tubes do you recommend for iCan?



Hi,
actually, i use a pair of these ones: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/2c51-...mc/united-branded-made-by-tungsol-usa-nos/nib
I'm very impressed how good they sound in my iCAN, in my opinion better like the Bendix, i used before.
They bring really warmth Tube sound in the iCAN


----------



## vonBaron

Strange because Bendix and WE396A are best tubes for ICAN


----------



## PY034

alekc said:


> Very nice setup  Congrats.
> 
> Could you write a small comparison with TT2 & M-Scaler?
> 
> Which tubes do you recommend for iCan?



Admittedly I have little experience with tube, I took recommendation from this thread and this is what I have in both the pro idsd and ican.


----------



## Ross Kyle

WE396As defos


----------



## arch023

Talking about tubes, my one year warrant is up a month ago, should i roll? What's a good site to buy from in USA?


----------



## vonBaron (Dec 17, 2020)

I roll back my tubes from Bendix to WE396A and i really don't see much difference, maybe WE gives slighty warmer sound and that's all.

Now on Bendix again and they are more neutral sounding, wider soundstage, better micro and macro detali, faster transient.

So in my private ranking tubes:
1. Bendix 5/5
2. WE 4.5/5
3. Stock GE 3/5


----------



## Louisiana

vonBaron said:


> I roll back my tubes from Bendix to WE396A and i really don't see much difference, maybe WE gives slighty warmer sound and that's all.
> 
> Now on Bendix again and they are more neutral sounding, wider soundstage, better micro and macro detali, faster transient.


And this warmer sound is what i expect from Tubes - for the details with Bendix, i better use SS mode 
After the Christmas trouble, i think i will try these Tubes: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/jj-6386-lpg-gold-jj-electronic


----------



## vonBaron (Dec 17, 2020)

SS is weak in ICan...
I doubt they will work but good luck!


----------



## chaz_flhr

PY034 said:


> Just rolled the tubes on both ican and idsd! I would highly recommend rolling the tubes.


nice setup and selection.
I find the pro ican great with the Stellia balanced on tube+ and xbass at 10hz with stock tubes so I can’t wait to roll some tubes, this is straight from a node2i tidal master MQA.


----------



## franci2105

Hi, did anyone think to replace the original pro iCan power supply to see if the amplifier quality improves? If its performance get better? Just curious if someone did it. Do not know if the question really make sense but I read that some people with other amps found improvements replacing the original power supply. Probabily iCan has already a good one.


----------



## dcguy73 (Dec 23, 2020)

franci2105 said:


> Hi, did anyone think to replace the original pro iCan power supply to see if the amplifier quality improves? If its performance get better? Just curious if someone did it. Do not know if the question really make sense but I read that some people with other amps found improvements replacing the original power supply. Probabily iCan has already a good one.



My qualified answer: Yes, but I live in a very old apartment building with crappy, noisy power.


----------



## franci2105

dcguy73 said:


> My qualified answer: Yes, but I live in a very old apartment building with crappy, noisy power.


I got it 🤣


----------



## BattousaiX26

Guys how do you handle dust entering inside of the pro ican?


----------



## Ross Kyle

BattousaiX26 said:


> Guys how do you handle dust entering inside of the pro ican?


just open it up and give a dust haha like a PC just be careful


----------



## BattousaiX26

Ross Kyle said:


> just open it up and give a dust haha like a PC just be careful


Will opening it void the warranty or not?


----------



## Ross Kyle

BattousaiX26 said:


> Will opening it void the warranty or not?


if they can prove it has been opened wasn’t any seals when I did and i had mine sent back to repair a circuit and had already opened it myself


----------



## BattousaiX26

Ross Kyle said:


> if they can prove it has been opened wasn’t any seals when I did and i had mine sent back to repair a circuit and had already opened it myself


Thank you!


----------



## alekc

Out of curiosity: mine iCan remote came without battery but with plastic card inserted into the battery compartment to prevent battery from draining completely. Did yours also came without battery but remote has been packaged like one should be already in? With many shops shutdown due to COVID buying a battery for remote which is not AA or AAA is not a trivial task any more  and shipping costs exceed single battery price


----------



## gto88

alekc said:


> Out of curiosity: mine iCan remote came without battery but with plastic card inserted into the battery compartment to prevent battery from draining completely. Did yours also came without battery but remote has been packaged like one should be already in? With many shops shutdown due to COVID buying a battery for remote which is not AA or AAA is not a trivial task any more  and shipping costs exceed single battery price


Don't remember, but it is likely to come with it since I don't recall buying battery cr2025 for it.
But, I hardly use the remote as it only controls volume, and I use the button when I need to.


----------



## gto88

BattousaiX26 said:


> Will opening it void the warranty or not?


maybe try compressed air duster, those in a spray can.


----------



## alekc

What are your experiences / findings with IEMs running balanced? Is it worth considering IEMatch built-in into 3.5 output? The thing is I don't have balanced cable for 3.5 right now I am wondering should I invest into one, considering I am using IEMs occasionally with iCan.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi all, I have a question to which I cannot find any answer online. If the ifi iCan Pro is used together with the iESL powering an electrostat, can I still use the single ended port on the iCan Pro? I want to use this combination to power a subpak, so the louder the signal coming from the se, the better . Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

Hoegaardener70 said:


> If the ifi iCan Pro is used together with the iESL powering an electrostat, can I still use the single ended port on the iCan Pro?



You mean a Pro icAN's single-ended (RCA) line out?

And what's a subpak ?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

iFi audio said:


> You mean a Pro icAN's single-ended (RCA) line out?
> 
> And what's a subpak ?



No, I mean the 6.4mm non-balanced output next to the 4pin XLR on the front panel.

A subpak (actually, I use woojer but subpak is the same) is like a vest or belt which gives audio signals a physical feedback, it is like a subwoofer on your body. It is hooked up with 3.5 or 6.4mm line in, and based on the signal strength bass is in- or decreased. It is quite a change to the experience to not only have the music but physical feedback, it is like being at a rock  concert standing in front of the big loudspeakers . 

The problem is that the signal needs to be loud. Ican pro with a Stellia on XLR and the woojer connected to 6.4mm is meh. Using the abyss on high gain is quite an experience.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I just bought the ifi iESL. Quite excited ... the plan is to try out Stax. 

In my excitement I totally forgot about the issue with my iCanPro.I use the Pro iCan together with the Pro iDSD. When the iDSD is connected to the PC via USB, I hear a distortion sound (it sounds like static crackle) in my headphones, especially when set to high gain (which my headphone requires). When I use the iDSD on its own, I can not hear this sound.
There is also some sort of amplification of sounds inside the iCan going on: Once I tap the case or touch any button of the iCan, the sound is multiplied in my headphones 

I have a ticket running with ifi support for 2 days (no reply yet), but I wan to check if anybody of you ever had this? Some sort of internal shortcut or so?


----------



## silversurfer616

Just traded my Kennerton Thridi for an Ifi ican Pro and keen how it works with all my headphones. 
Can’t imagine that the SS part will best my GSX mini but who knows?


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Feb 7, 2021)

silversurfer616 said:


> Just traded my Kennerton Thridi for an Ifi ican Pro and keen how it works with all my headphones.
> Can’t imagine that the SS part will best my GSX mini but who knows?



Why should it not? Some folks at SBAF and also myself prefer the iCan Pro. Headphone used was the Utopia.


----------



## vonBaron

silversurfer616 said:


> Just traded my Kennerton Thridi for an Ifi ican Pro and keen how it works with all my headphones.
> Can’t imagine that the SS part will best my GSX mini but who knows?


GS-X mini is way superior vs ICan in SS mode.


----------



## vonBaron

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Why should it not? Some folks at SBAF and also myself prefer the iCan Pro. Headphone used was the Utopia.


Well im not suprise, ICan is made for Focal HP


----------



## silversurfer616

vonBaron said:


> GS-X mini is way superior vs ICan in SS mode.


Thought as much...will probably end up using it in my second system.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

silversurfer616 said:


> Thought as much...will probably end up using it in my second system.



first share your impressions, please.


----------



## WolfP

Hi, 
has anyone used the iPower Elite power supply instead of the stock iPower Plus ? Is there any sound improvement ?

https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower-elite/


----------



## Hoegaardener70

WolfP said:


> Hi,
> has anyone used the iPower Elite power supply instead of the stock iPower Plus ? Is there any sound improvement ?
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower-elite/



I got curious and checked it out. Is this even available any more - I could see no place to buy it...


----------



## iFi audio

WolfP said:


> has anyone used the iPower Elite power supply instead of the stock iPower Plus ? Is there any sound improvement ?



I look forward to finding this from folks here 



Hoegaardener70 said:


> I got curious and checked it out. Is this even available any more - I could see no place to buy it...



You might ask our iFi team in the US when they might have iPower Elite in stock:  enq@ifi-audio.com


----------



## Hoegaardener70

iFi audio said:


> You might ask our iFi team in the US when they might have iPower Elite in stock:  enq@ifi-audio.com



OK - will do. 

Another question: I have now the Pro iESL, Pro iCan and iDSD. Obviously, it would be preferable to put the ican on top due to heat development, 
but the power cable connecting the idsd and ican is so short (as is the HDMI cable) when using the irack - is this power connection cable between idsd and iCan a standard one?


----------



## robo24 (Feb 11, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> OK - will do.
> 
> Another question: I have now the Pro iESL, Pro iCan and iDSD. Obviously, it would be preferable to put the ican on top due to heat development,
> but the power cable connecting the idsd and ican is so short (as is the HDMI cable) when using the irack - is this power connection cable between idsd and iCan a standard one?


It's a special HDMI cable and you can't just use another one. Oops, misread. I thought you meant the HDMI between the iCAN and iESL. I don't have the iDSD. When I used the HDMI connection between the other 2 I just had the iCAN on top of the iESL directly and there was never any problem from that.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Feb 11, 2021)

So, good news, the cables fit (although the connecting electricity cable is a bit tight):





@iFi audio :  I got a reply from ifi support after two weeks regarding the static crackling noise of my ican (but not the idsd on its own). I was told to buy the ifi isilencer and idefender. I thought this was implemented in the products - at least it was advertised that way????


----------



## iFi audio

Hoegaardener70 said:


> @iFi audio : I got a reply from ifi support after two weeks regarding the static crackling noise of my ican (but not the idsd on its own). I was told to buy the ifi isilencer and idefender. I thought this was implemented in the products - at least it was advertised that way????



Some of our jitter-removing/noise-killing tech is inside our DACs, but our iSilencer and iDefender were released after our Pro iDSD, so naturally it couldn't have them included.

Btw. what a lovely stack you have there...


----------



## el tri head

Help. I have an ifi iCan Pro...and the remote is pretty terrible. I use it as a preamp and the remote won't work from my desk 6 feet away. I asked the company for the code to program a universal remote, but they wouldn't send me one. Can anyone recommend a good universal remote that will work with it and hopefully be stronger than the one it came with? Thanks...


----------



## alekc

I've finally got brilliant "Autum in Seattle" album by Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio and spend whole day listening to it. Still can't decide if I prefer it in SS, tube or tube+... Any other fans of this album and iCan Pro here?


----------



## silversurfer616 (Feb 26, 2021)

Have the ican Pro now for a few weeks and prefer it to my GSX- mini. Simultaneously I have reduced the number of headphones and will eventually keep the Focal Utopia, Stellia and HD800S.
With these the ican seems to have better synergy in terms of grip/control. Admittedly soundstage is slightly smaller but deeper and more holographic.
Of the extra features only use SS and nothing else.


----------



## alekc

silversurfer616 said:


> Have the ican Pro now for a few weeks and prefer it to my GSX- mini. Simultaneously I have reduced the number of headphones and will eventually keep the Focal Utopia, Stellia and HD800S.
> With these the ican seems to have better synergy in terms of grip/control. Admittedly soundstage is slightly smaller but deeper and more holographic.
> Of the extra features only use SS and nothing else.


@silversurfer616 thank you for an interesting opinion - this is one of only few I've heard putting iCan Pro over GSX mini. Most people I've been talking with preferred mini, and I am still trying to figure out if I need it as another amp considering I already own iCan Pro. Personally I prefer iCan Pro SS mode most from all 3 available. Funny thing since I prefer iCan SE paired with iTube2.


----------



## vonBaron

For me too GS-X mini is better SS amp than ICan.


----------



## silversurfer616

alekc said:


> @silversurfer616 thank you for an interesting opinion - this is one of only few I've heard putting iCan Pro over GSX mini. Most people I've been talking with preferred mini, and I am still trying to figure out if I need it as another amp considering I already own iCan Pro. Personally I prefer iCan Pro SS mode most from all 3 available. Funny thing since I prefer iCan SE paired with iTube2.


Could be that the ICAN has a better synergy with both my dacs( Audionote4.1 and PSAudio Perfect Wave) or it is just personal preference.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

pro iCan gets immensely more interesting with upgrading the tube. I think the solid state part is solid (what a wordsmith I am), but with the increased possibilities the we396 offers, the iCan becomes really universal in a small package.


----------



## robo24

alekc said:


> @silversurfer616 thank you for an interesting opinion - this is one of only few I've heard putting iCan Pro over GSX mini. Most people I've been talking with preferred mini, and I am still trying to figure out if I need it as another amp considering I already own iCan Pro. Personally I prefer iCan Pro SS mode most from all 3 available. Funny thing since I prefer iCan SE paired with iTube2.


Definitely try some other tubes. The tube modes with stock tubes struck me as not all that different. With WE 396A or GE 5 stars, and perhaps some others completely transform it and all 3 modes are much more distinctly different.


----------



## vonBaron

BTW i got for sale military WE396A and Bendix tubes for ICan


----------



## Glokta

Is the demand so high for the iCan Pro? I've wanted to jump on this train but I've been given a 10 day lead time from my supplier, and I'm in the UK...now after those days passed they don't even respond to my emails. Big oof.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 3, 2021)

Glokta said:


> Is the demand so high for the iCan Pro? I've wanted to jump on this train but I've been given a 10 day lead time from my supplier, and I'm in the UK...now after those days passed they don't even respond to my emails. Big oof. just bought a WA33 and I'll be looking to sell my Pro iCAN if you are interested. Has upgraded Western Electric 396A Tubes and is in pristine condition.


Might be due to Covid-related supply constraints. Just speculation of course.

Incidentally, I just bought a WA33 amp that should be here in about 3 weeks and I'll be looking to sell my Pro iCAN if you are interested. Has upgraded Western Electric 396A Tubes and is in pristine condition.

Edit: nevermind. Just saw you are in the UK. Definitely sounds like covid and Brexit to me.

Edit 2: Pro iCAN pending sale to another Head-fi member.


----------



## chaz_flhr (Mar 2, 2021)

silversurfer616 said:


> Have the ican Pro now for a few weeks and prefer it to my GSX- mini. Simultaneously I have reduced the number of headphones and will eventually keep the Focal Utopia, Stellia and HD800S.
> With these the ican seems to have better synergy in terms of grip/control. Admittedly soundstage is slightly smaller but deeper and more holographic.
> Of the extra features only use SS and nothing else.


With my Stellia I gravitate toward tube+ and 1 click on Xbass But the pro ican with 5 star tube upgrade seems to play well with all my HP.


----------



## chaz_flhr

robo24 said:


> Definitely try some other tubes. The tube modes with stock tubes struck me as not all that different. With WE 396A or GE 5 stars, and perhaps some others completely transform it and all 3 modes are much more distinctly different.


+1 for the 5 stars


----------



## silversurfer616

Tried tube and it’s ok but Stellia are already of a darker nature, so SS works best for me. Whereas with HD800S and Utopia tube option is really good and probably even better with upgraded tubes.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

silversurfer616 said:


> Tried tube and it’s ok but Stellia are already of a darker nature, so SS works best for me. Whereas with HD800S and Utopia tube option is really good and probably even better with upgraded tubes.


100% agree, for all 3headphones. I must admit, the mode I least use is the hybrid one, it seems not to make any positive change either way.


----------



## chaz_flhr

silversurfer616 said:


> Tried tube and it’s ok but Stellia are already of a darker nature, so SS works best for me. Whereas with HD800S and Utopia tube option is really good and probably even better with upgraded tubes.


Different ears / tastes  I guess as I would never describe Stellia as darker natured but I do prefer warm to cold, I’m very sensitive to bright or sharp highs.


----------



## robo24

Hoegaardener70 said:


> 100% agree, for all 3headphones. I must admit, the mode I least use is the hybrid one, it seems not to make any positive change either way.


With better tubes they've all been clearly different for me. I could barely hear the difference with stock tubes even in tube+


----------



## chaz_flhr

Hoegaardener70 said:


> 100% agree, for all 3headphones. I must admit, the mode I least use is the hybrid one, it seems not to make any positive change either way.


Have you upgraded your tubes? Until I changed tubes I thought that there was very little difference in the mode changes sound wise.


----------



## Louisiana

chaz_flhr said:


> Have you upgraded your tubes? Until I changed tubes I thought that there was very little difference in the mode changes sound wise.


Same here!


----------



## Ravatar

Anyone has experience with pro ican on 1266TC? pro ican and gsx mini, which one works better with 1266?


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Mar 20, 2021)

Hey guys!  I wanted to drop my new review here of the iFi Pro iCAN, big thanks to @iFi audio for the extended demo!  I hope you guys enjoy it, cheers!  Listen with Headphones if possible and watch in 4k if possible.


----------



## robo24

MRphotography said:


> Hey guys!  I wanted to drop my new review here of the iFi Pro iCAN, big thanks to @iFi audio for the extended demo!  I hope you guys enjoy it, cheers!  Listen with Headphones if possible and watch in 4k if possible.


Nice review and thanks for comparing it some to the Pendant (while I wait for mine to be built) and the other SS amp. I've loved mine and felt it's a big step up from the Micro and THX 789 I had before it.


----------



## iFi audio

MRphotography said:


> Hey guys!  I wanted to drop my new review here of the iFi Pro iCAN, big thanks to @iFi audio for the extended demo!  I hope you guys enjoy it, cheers!  Listen with Headphones if possible and watch in 4k if possible.




Awesome work, many thanks! 

Also it goes without saying that it's a very high quality production. All in all, we're impressed!



robo24 said:


> it's a big step up from the Micro



Our Pro iDSD was designed to sit way above micro iDSD BL and its price tag reflects this. Although the Pro costs more, a customer gets more in return and lots of cool features on top of that.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

For anybody interested, I am selling my custom made adapter which allows to connect a DAP with a 2.5mm port to the Pro iCan (Corpse Cable 2.5mm to female 3pin XLR cable). Worked great giving my DAP a bit more oomph with the iCan


----------



## dcguy73 (Mar 31, 2021)

I ordered the iPower Elite to try out with the iCan Pro and iDSD Pro. It'd be great if it works as well as my Keces P8 linear power supply, as I could move that elsewhere and free up one of the shelves on my audio rack.

@Hoegaardener70, you inquired about it earlier in this thread. I'll let you know my impressions.


----------



## parmy79

Am trying to change the tubes for the iCan. But there’s screws on the volume knob which I need to unwind before I can open the unit. 
Can someone advise what’s the screwdriver can fit for those screws?

thanks in advance


----------



## Hoegaardener70

parmy79 said:


> Am trying to change the tubes for the iCan. But there’s screws on the volume knob which I need to unwind before I can open the unit.
> Can someone advise what’s the screwdriver can fit for those screws?
> 
> thanks in advance


You do not need to unscrew the volume knob. In fact you do not need to touch the front panel at all. Remove the screws at the back panel (4 for the bigger metal bars, and some 14 or so of the small ones, all with an Allen wrench key) and just slide the whole unit out.


----------



## Louisiana

parmy79 said:


> Am trying to change the tubes for the iCan. But there’s screws on the volume knob which I need to unwind before I can open the unit.
> Can someone advise what’s the screwdriver can fit for those screws?
> 
> thanks in advance


No need to remove Front panel.


----------



## parmy79

Louisiana said:


> No need to remove Front panel.


Thanks for the quick reply, I tried to remove all the screws in the rear but the back panel is quite firm. Do I have to wriggle it loose?


----------



## Louisiana

Yes, but please, be careful, and check if you got all the screws out!
Back panel sit really tight.


----------



## iFi audio (Apr 14, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> You do not need to unscrew the volume knob. In fact you do not need to touch the front panel at all. Remove the screws at the back panel (4 for the bigger metal bars, and some 14 or so of the small ones, all with an Allen wrench key) and just slide the whole unit out.



Exactly. Upon removing the rear plate, the main PCB with the front panel attached should slide right off.

@parmy79


----------



## Reebonz

@iFi audio My Pro iCan has collected quite a bit of dust inside. What's the safest way to clean up without damaging the PCB and components?


----------



## robo24

parmy79 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, I tried to remove all the screws in the rear but the back panel is quite firm. Do I have to wriggle it loose?


What tubes are you planning to roll? Most of the tubes I've tried have put mine into protection mode either immediately or within minutes, even with a fan on the amp, though they worked perfectly in a Valhalla 2 with adapter. But when you get some that do (WE-396A O getters, GE 5 Star) it's like you have a completely new, and much different amp. With either set, the 3 modes are very different, and I could barely tell them apart with stock 5670s.


----------



## parmy79

robo24 said:


> What tubes are you planning to roll? Most of the tubes I've tried have put mine into protection mode either immediately or within minutes, even with a fan on the amp, though they worked perfectly in a Valhalla 2 with adapter. But when you get some that do (WE-396A O getters, GE 5 Star) it's like you have a completely new, and much different amp. With either set, the 3 modes are very different, and I could barely tell them apart with stock 5670s.


I got my hands on WE396As.


----------



## parmy79

Louisiana said:


> Yes, but please, be careful, and check if you got all the screws out!
> Back panel sit really tight.


Danke schoen!


----------



## Shane D

I am about to join this club. I closed a deal last night on an 18 month old model. Hoping to have it for next weekend. 

I have a broad selection of headphones to run through it. I am hoping/expecting this amp to displace one to two amps from my present collection.

I am currently running (for those that can't see my signature) three amps:

1) My newest is a cheapie that has been a really pleasant surprise. The Little Dot MKIII, assisted by a Schiit Loki.

2) Liquid Platinum. I Love this amp. Still stock with very little tube rolling. XLR out is best and really wails with higher impedance headphones.

3) Probably my favourite amp is the Violectric V220. It can power almost anything with a nice, warm sound. I love the Dip Switches, but wish it had XLR out.

All are fed by a Schiit Bifrost 2.


----------



## alekc

Shane D said:


> I am about to join this club. I closed a deal last night on an 18 month old model. Hoping to have it for next weekend.
> 
> I have a broad selection of headphones to run through it. I am hoping/expecting this amp to displace one to two amps from my present collection.
> 
> ...



Congrats. If you are into tube sound you maybe a little disappointed by iCan tube and tube+ mode at first. For sure it will be different in one way or another from all your current amps, but I wonder if it could really replace any of them. The thing is iCan is like swiss army knife: very useful, you can throw at it most cans without any worries but it may not excel when comparing to less versatile amps. Keep in mind that I'm saying this as iCan owner and with good intentions. Looking forward to hear your opinion about iCan Pro and Violectric V220. 

Overall iCan Pro is very enjoyable and easy to listen amp.


----------



## robo24

Shane D said:


> I am about to join this club. I closed a deal last night on an 18 month old model. Hoping to have it for next weekend.
> 
> I have a broad selection of headphones to run through it. I am hoping/expecting this amp to displace one to two amps from my present collection.
> 
> ...


Ditch the stock tubes once you get it. Literally every other matched pair I tried sounded better as long as they worked. Some can overheat it though the same tubes work fine in other amps. GE 5 star, WE 396A (or even Raytheon versions) are all excellent. The 5 star seems more punchy while the 396A seem more tubey with a wider soundstage.


----------



## Shane D

alekc said:


> Congrats. If you are into tube sound you maybe a little disappointed by iCan tube and tube+ mode at first. For sure it will be different in one way or another from all your current amps, but I wonder if it could really replace any of them. The thing is iCan is like swiss army knife: very useful, you can throw at it most cans without any worries but it may not excel when comparing to less versatile amps. Keep in mind that I'm saying this as iCan owner and with good intentions. Looking forward to hear your opinion about iCan Pro and Violectric V220.
> 
> Overall iCan Pro is very enjoyable and easy to listen amp.


I don't find the LP at all "tubey", but I do love the sound. I upgraded to Amperex tubes and I am very happy. I was thinking that the Pro might have a similar or better sound in tube/tube+ vs the LP.

I understand that it will be Nothing like the LD MKIII and that's fine.

Really curious against the V220.


----------



## Shane D

robo24 said:


> Ditch the stock tubes once you get it. Literally every other matched pair I tried sounded better as long as they worked. Some can overheat it though the same tubes work fine in other amps. GE 5 star, WE 396A (or even Raytheon versions) are all excellent. The 5 star seems more punchy while the 396A seem more tubey with a wider soundstage.


I will buy some WE 396 A's shortly. Want to go to stock for at least a month and then see where I am at.


----------



## Shane D

My current system is:


I am thinking that possibly I could dump the switcher, the Loki, and maybe two amps. I am wondering if I might end up at V220, Pro and BF2.

Time will tell.


----------



## vonBaron

I have pair WE 396 and Bendix for sale.


----------



## Shane D

vonBaron said:


> I have pair WE 396 and Bendix for sale.


Where are you located?


----------



## Glokta

When I'm switching from tube to tube+ mode, my iCan flashes red (as in protection red) for about 5 secs and then makes the switch...is this a normal behavior?


----------



## alekc

Glokta said:


> When I'm switching from tube to tube+ mode, my iCan flashes red (as in protection red) for about 5 secs and then makes the switch...is this a normal behavior?


Yes, it is normal. If I remember correctly it may be even described in manual but I might be wrong.


----------



## Glokta

alekc said:


> Yes, it is normal. If I remember correctly it may be even described in manual but I might be wrong.


All that the manual states is:
"Upon switching between modes, there will be a brief mute as the circuit switches. To maximise tube life, the Pro iCAN has a built-in intelligent monitor; after an extended period of operation in Solid-State mode, the tubes will switch o. If the tube circuit is shut-o, upon switching back to Tube/Tube+ mode, the tubes will need to warm up (as if the whole Pro iCAN itself was powered up from OFF). Music will continue to play via the Solid-State section until the tubes are fully activated"

That's why I was asking, too see what's the general consensus on it.


----------



## Ross Kyle

Glokta said:


> When I'm switching from tube to tube+ mode, my iCan flashes red (as in protection red) for about 5 secs and then makes the switch...is this a normal behavior?


it’s normal behaviour


----------



## dcguy73

I've moved my iCan Pro into the living room to act as the new preamp for my home theater system. It works brilliantly in that capacity. Gives my Denon amp a little more soul.


----------



## Shane D

Just got mine today.
Is it supposed to come with a remote?


----------



## vonBaron

Yes


----------



## Shane D (May 3, 2021)

Double post.


----------



## alekc

Shane D said:


> Just got mine today.
> Is it supposed to come with a remote?


Yes. It is shared with iDSD Pro, hence 4 buttons. Not of best quality IMHO but not the worts I've seen so far.


----------



## Shane D

alekc said:


> Yes. It is shared with iDSD Pro, hence 4 buttons. Not of best quality IMHO but not the worts I've seen so far.


Disappointing that I didn't get it. I suppose that I could buy one, but would I even use it?
I used my Violectric remote for about 2 or 3 days and then never touched it again.


----------



## alekc

Shane D said:


> Disappointing that I didn't get it. I suppose that I could buy one, but would I even use it?
> I used my Violectric remote for about 2 or 3 days and then never touched it again.


 Sorry to hear that @Shane D . Why don't you contact ifi about it. 

As for remote it all depends on how long cans cables you have and how your amp is located. 

iCan Pro volume pot is nice and accurate so personally I like to use it more than remote. Still remote can be useful from time to time unless you always listen with one volume level.


----------



## Shane D

alekc said:


> Sorry to hear that @Shane D . Why don't you contact ifi about it.
> 
> As for remote it all depends on how long cans cables you have and how your amp is located.
> 
> iCan Pro volume pot is nice and accurate so personally I like to use it more than remote. Still remote can be useful from time to time unless you always listen with one volume level.


I have already reached out to iFi. All my gear is besides my lazy boy, so I don't really need a remote. I bought the unit used from a second owner. While waiting for it, I did lots of research and realized that it should have come with a small manual, RCA cable and remote control. I received it today, it came with none. When I asked the seller about it, he said "The ad stated that it only came with a power cable". Live and learn.  

Enjoyed it for a few hours today in SS mode. Didn't feel a lot of difference with the X-BASS and 3D mode, but I will look at that harder tomorrow. In the past, I have enjoyed those two functions with an iFi amp I used to own.


----------



## robo24

The 3D feature is very headphone and track dependent. On some it seems to do little to nothing such as the HD800. On the Verite it seems to make the soundstage taller. The bass settings make pretty clear differences to my ears at least, especially on things like the HD800 where it's less present than the mids or treble. Since the remote only controls volume, I don't find it that useful either.


----------



## Shane D (May 3, 2021)

robo24 said:


> The 3D feature is very headphone and track dependent. On some it seems to do little to nothing such as the HD800. On the Verite it seems to make the soundstage taller. The bass settings make pretty clear differences to my ears at least, especially on things like the HD800 where it's less present than the mids or treble. Since the remote only controls volume, I don't find it that useful either.


It didn't arrive until late today and I was just using my LCD-2 Classic's with my other amps. They did sound great though for an hour or two. 

I think that tomorrow I will go with my two favourites, Grado GH2's and Focal Elex's.


----------



## alekc

robo24 said:


> The 3D feature is very headphone and track dependent. On some it seems to do little to nothing such as the HD800. On the Verite it seems to make the soundstage taller. The bass settings make pretty clear differences to my ears at least, especially on things like the HD800 where it's less present than the mids or treble. Since the remote only controls volume, I don't find it that useful either.



Agree. Adding headphone equalization with tonebooster or reveal+ for example makes even more trickier to always hear the difference or get the sound signature one would like. As for tracks (assuming proper can match) from my experience some acoustic recording can benefit almost always both from 3d and xbass. I would say it applies mostly to some rock, grunge or blues recordings. I haven't yet found a classical track that would benefit strongly from xbass for example.  Some live recordings also can benefit from 3d IMHO.


----------



## Shane D

Well, I finally got my new-to-me iCAN Pro.
I used it yesterday for an hour or two with my LCD-2 Classic’s they sounded very nice.


Today, I decided to dig out my two favourite headphones, the Grado GH2’s and Focal Elex’s. These two will likely be on for the whole week.


First up was the Grado’s. I am running in Solid State mode and set the bass boost on 20hz. No 3D sound and only on low gain @ 9:30-10:00 on the volume dial.
Holy crap do they sound good on the amp! Full and bassy. Just a ton of fun. Of course I love these on my V220 and LD MKIII too. 


I tried the soundstage trick (3D) off and on but didn’t really notice anything. I think I will be changing the set-up for every different headphone. This will take a few weeks.


I am curious about how tube mode will treat the Grado’s. Time will tell.
What a great combo!


Next up was the Elex’s. First thing I notice is that X-Bass doesn’t really do anything. I am guessing that is because they already have pretty good bass. I leave it on 10hz. The sound is great, but on a few songs the higher frequencies seems kind of brightish. Never noticed this at all with the Grado’s. Is the amp neutral/bright or neutral/warm? I have read both.


I Love these headphones on my LP, so I can’t help but wonder if tube mode will increase the pleasure.


Overall, a great first day! Only downside is that the 1/4" connector seems a bit loose. Not sure if that is related to the fact that the connector is located within a 3-pin XLR socket?


Last thought: In SS mode it barely gets warm, much like the Violectric V220. I know it does get good and hot in tube mode though.

My current testing playlist is attached.


----------



## alekc

Shane D said:


> Well, I finally got my new-to-me iCAN Pro.
> I used it yesterday for an hour or two with my LCD-2 Classic’s they sounded very nice.
> 
> 
> ...



There is plenty of experiment ahead of you @Shane D  This is what I really like about ifi products - you can tweak the sound based on track needs or your mood and iCan Pro is not exception here, on the contrary: it can be great fun to play with different settings to look out for all those (sometimes tiny) differences in sound. Here is a short list of tracks that I've found are good for testing different iCan Pro settings, not only 3d and Xbass but also ss, tube and tube+ mode. As for amp modes I've found out that the best mode for me is changing over time. I had the same experience with ifi iTube2 so it wasn't a surprise for me. 


Beth Hart Front and Center (Live from New York) - Fat Man
Acoustified Hists, Vol. 2 - Getaway (Acoustic Version) Pearl Jam Cover
Yosi Horikawa - Wandering
Death Is the New Sex, Tunng
Autumn In Seattle, Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio
Live in Lisbon, Nibs Van Der Spuy, Gut Buttery
Art Blakey, Jazz Messengers - Caravan
Art Blakey, Jazz Messengers - A Night in Tunisia
Gabor Vagra, It's Getting Cooler - 128 Str.

Have fun mate!


----------



## Shane D

alekc said:


> There is plenty of experiment ahead of you @Shane D  This is what I really like about ifi products - you can tweak the sound based on track needs or your mood and iCan Pro is not exception here, on the contrary: it can be great fun to play with different settings to look out for all those (sometimes tiny) differences in sound. Here is a short list of tracks that I've found are good for testing different iCan Pro settings, not only 3d and Xbass but also ss, tube and tube+ mode. As for amp modes I've found out that the best mode for me is changing over time. I had the same experience with ifi iTube2 so it wasn't a surprise for me.
> 
> 
> Beth Hart Front and Center (Live from New York) - Fat Man
> ...


Thanks for the input, but I don't have any of the items you mentioned.
I am going through the same playlist again today, but in tube mode. Today, I will play with the tube modes. And probably play a bit with 3D.

Tomorrow I will go wider with some favourite artists and try some blues and jazz.


----------



## alekc

Shane D said:


> Thanks for the input, but I don't have any of the items you mentioned.
> I am going through the same playlist again today, but in tube mode. Today, I will play with the tube modes. And probably play a bit with 3D.
> 
> Tomorrow I will go wider with some favourite artists and try some blues and jazz.


You are welcome. Most of those could be found on streaming services, bandcamp (Yosi Horikawa). Autumn In Seattle by Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio is exception here but can be found in low quality on YT so you can easly check out most if not all of those tracks and albums. I've checked Tidal and Spotify. Looking at your list, those may not be in your style, still I think they are doing their job as far as iCan Pro setting test suite.


----------



## Shane D

alekc said:


> You are welcome. Most of those could be found on streaming services, bandcamp (Yosi Horikawa). Autumn In Seattle by Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio is exception here but can be found in low quality on YT so you can easly check out most if not all of those tracks and albums. I've checked Tidal and Spotify. Looking at your list, those may not be in your style, still I think they are doing their job as far as iCan Pro setting test suite.


I don't stream, but I have a pretty broad selection of almost 7000 songs. The oldest would be Miles Davis from the late 40's, I think.
And I try to buy something new almost every week.
I bought my first Peter Frampton album ever last week, Peter Frampton Forgets The Words. It is classified as rock, but for me it swings between jazz and blues.


----------



## chaz_flhr

Shane D said:


> Just got mine today.
> Is it supposed to come with a remote?


It's a powerful and versatile amp very tuneable I personally love what the xbass does on the Stellia and Arya try the different settings.
Are they original tubes or upgraded?


----------



## Shane D

chaz_flhr said:


> It's a powerful and versatile amp very tuneable I personally love what the xbass does on the Stellia and Arya try the different settings.
> Are they original tubes or upgraded?


Stock tubes so far. I will look into upgrading them next month. Yesterday was SS day. Today it tube and tube+ day.
The Elex's sound a little better in tube mode.

I am pretty impressed with this amp, so far.


----------



## iFi audio

Shane D said:


> Stock tubes so far. I will look into upgrading them next month. Yesterday was SS day. Today it tube and tube+ day.
> The Elex's sound a little better in tube mode.
> 
> I am pretty impressed with this amp, so far.



It's great that you like the product. Please enjoy the heck out of it, with tubes or without


----------



## Shane D

iFi audio said:


> It's great that you like the product. Please enjoy the heck out of it, with tubes or without


X-Bass and Grado's are a match made in Heaven. 
I had an iFi amp a few years ago that I was indifferent about, but I always thought that you have the best implementation of bass boost that I have ever heard.


----------



## alekc

Shane D said:


> Stock tubes so far. I will look into upgrading them next month. Yesterday was SS day. Today it tube and tube+ day.
> The Elex's sound a little better in tube mode.
> 
> I am pretty impressed with this amp, so far.



Have fun mate! From my experience I couldn't hear much difference between Tube and Tube+ modes (a bit different than in iTube2 case when I have heard the difference between SET and Push-Pull modes instantly) but it came with a time. Currently I prefer Tube mode more, but I know that I will switch my mind at least few more times in future - just like with iTube2.  Comparing iTub2 with iCan Pro with stock tubes showed how awesome iTube2 is, especially considering price tag.


----------



## Shane D

alekc said:


> Have fun mate! From my experience I couldn't hear much difference between Tube and Tube+ modes (a bit different than in iTube2 case when I have heard the difference between SET and Push-Pull modes instantly) but it came with a time. Currently I prefer Tube mode more, but I know that I will switch my mind at least few more times in future - just like with iTube2.  Comparing iTub2 with iCan Pro with stock tubes showed how awesome iTube2 is, especially considering price tag.


Yeah, I really can't tell a difference between tube and tube+ so far. I tried 3D yesterday. Again I couldn't really notice it. But that is probably because my headphones didn't need it.

For today and tomorrow, I think I will keep these headphones out (Grado GH2's and Focal Elex's) and compare amps. Pro vs LP and Pro vs V220.

Life is good!


----------



## robo24

Get some other tubes in there and the 3 modes will become quite distinct with the tube modes being far more impressive than stock.


----------



## Shane D

Another update with my new toy.  My Grado GH2’s sound good in every mode and with X-bass. 3D is not doing much with them.


With the Elex’s I wasn’t overly impressed with SS mode, but tube was better. X-bass didn’t mean much, nor 3D.


Today and previous has been the Senn showcase. With all of the amps, the HD660’s seem smoother than the HD6XX’s. Similar sounds, but I prefer the HD660’s. The HD6XX’s do require a jump to mid gain. This amp has TONS of power and I am not going much past 10:00. In this mode the HD660’s go to 12:00 - 1:00, depending on the music. X-bass is nice with both and I haven’t played much with 3D.


My biggest observation is that nice amps are nice, regardless. In the last two and a half years, I have burned through about ten amps. When you are starting at $99.00/$199.00/$299.00/etc., large upgrades just don’t happen, in that category.
In the under $500.00 range (Canuck Bucks), they are all similar, but different. Each new amp may sound different, but is never a huge improvement, IME.


But when you move up a whole category, the difference is shocking. Three of my four current amps, in the main system are the following (pricing is full retail, landed cost in Canada):



Monoprice Liquid Platinum - $1,050.00
Violectric V220 - $2,175.00 (bought used)
iFi Pro iCAN - $2,900.00 (bought used)

The difference between these amps and everything that came before them is HUGE! But the difference between these three amps is remarkably subtle to me. They all have clarity that cheap amps couldn’t hope to reach, but you certainly pay for that.
I thought that the Pro would replace at least one and probably two amps, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.
I like the smoothness of tube mode, but I don’t think that it can dislodge the LP.
I really like SS mode with certain 'phones, but it can’t match that something extra that the Violectric has.
And tube+ can’t come close to the “tubiness” of the LD MKIII, nor match it’s lack of clarity.


This purchase reminds me of another recent purchase, the BF2. That, to me, was a large purchase with minimal gain in quality.
This one was even more expensive, and while I do enjoy the crazy power (that I will never use) and cool features, it does not blow away any current toys. In some ways, if you listen carefully and analytically, it improves the sound of certain music with certain 'phones, much like the BF2. Neither is bad, nor do I feel that I have been ripped off or wasted money. Live and learn.  

It seems like anything over $1K really starts to enforce the rule of diminishing returns.

I am enjoying the amp and still have six pairs of cans to run through it. Although it’s still kind of early, it seems the way forward is probably that I keep all the amps and thin out the headphone collection. Although, interesting trades could change that outcome.


My upgradeitis is certainly cooling off. I don’t see a new DAC coming my way at any time, nor any more amps for quite a while.


However, I am still curious about the Clears, Arya’s, T5p.3’, etc.


----------



## Shane D (May 12, 2021)

Another update. Yesterday I was feeling pretty disappointed after my Senn and Pro trials.

Today I finally found a perfect headphone for this amp.

I had grown tired of my DT880 (600Ohm) and was thinking about selling them. Nice sound, but nothing special and quite a power hog.

Then I plugged them into my Pro and it was magical.

The Pro is using X-bass and 3-D sound affects. It is in high gain via the 1/4" Jack and the volume sits around 10:00. WOW! The best I have ever heard these 'phones sound. The bass rumbles like a subwoofer (when appropriate) and no undue brightness. The clarity of the vocals and the instruments is amazing. Yesterday I was feeling pretty underwhelmed with my Senn headphones on this but the Beyer's are really bringing it home.
I won't be selling these puppies for a good long time.

Can't help but wonder how the Argons will get along with this amp.


----------



## Spedinfargo

Shane D said:


> Another update. Yesterday I was feeling pretty disappointed after my Senn and Pro trials.
> 
> Today I finally found a perfect headphone for this amp.
> 
> ...


I looked through a couple of your old posts but didn't see an answer - what are you primarily using for a DAC with the iCan?  The Bifrost 2?


----------



## dcguy73

Shane D said:


> Another update. Yesterday I was feeling pretty disappointed after my Senn and Pro trials.
> 
> Today I finally found a perfect headphone for this amp.
> 
> ...


Have you thought about connecting to the iCan Pro through the balanced jacks rather than the 1/4"? I found a big improvement in sound that way. More power, more finesse.


----------



## mccarvindh

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=ifi pro ican&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma

B&H shows that the iCAN is discontinued.  Is there a new version expected?


----------



## Shane D

Spedinfargo said:


> I looked through a couple of your old posts but didn't see an answer - what are you primarily using for a DAC with the iCan?  The Bifrost 2?


Yes I am.


----------



## Shane D

dcguy73 said:


> Have you thought about connecting to the iCan Pro through the balanced jacks rather than the 1/4"? I found a big improvement in sound that way. More power, more finesse.


The DT880 is hardwired and can not be used balanced. 
I am not going to rewire it. The Pro is the first amp to push it this hard and the combo is wonderful.


----------



## chaz_flhr

Shane D said:


> Another update with my new toy.  My Grado GH2’s sound good in every mode and with X-bass. 3D is not doing much with them.
> 
> 
> With the Elex’s I wasn’t overly impressed with SS mode, but tube was better. X-bass didn’t mean much, nor 3D.
> ...


IMHO the Arya's sound amazing with the Pro iCan.
But they also sound great with my cap upgraded LP running 50's amperx BB.
The iCan stock tubes don't offer a very distinctive sound variation from SS to my ears.
The Pro iDSD pushes the Pro iCan to another level.


----------



## Shane D

chaz_flhr said:


> IMHO the Arya's sound amazing with the Pro iCan.
> But they also sound great with my cap upgraded LP running 50's amperx BB.
> The iCan stock tubes don't offer a very distinctive sound variation from SS to my ears.
> The Pro iDSD pushes the Pro iCan to another level.


I will definitely change the tubes down the road, in the Pro.
The iDSD would be interesting, but is too pricey for me.


----------



## Shane D (May 18, 2021)

Big shout out to Sebastien from iFi for helping me source a remote control for this amp. I was having a tough time locating one.

Even though I did not buy the amp new from iFi, he was kind enough to help me! Thank you!


----------



## alekc

chaz_flhr said:


> The Pro iDSD pushes the Pro iCan to another level.


Or is it the other way around?  I think both provide ifi house signature sound to some extend, but iCan really pushes cans to next level while iDSD has more ifi sound flavor.


----------



## Ross Kyle

Shane D said:


> I will definitely change the tubes down the road, in the Pro.
> The iDSD would be interesting, but is too pricey for me.


haha i replaced both my ican and idsd stock tubes tell me about it 😂


----------



## iFi audio

alekc said:


> I think both provide ifi house signature sound to some extend, but iCan really pushes cans to next level while iDSD has more ifi sound flavor.



There's something there for sure, but both these products were designed for flexibility in the first place. Each features several flavors


----------



## Crgreen

Newbie to this group here. I thought I’d let you have my thoughts on the iFi Pro iCan. I’m moving to smaller accommodation where my amps (Audio Research) and Speakers (Sonus Faber) will not be suitable so am having to switch, albeit reluctantly, to headphone-only listening.

My set-up (rig, man) is a laptop powered by a battery power supply, USB via an IsoRegen with LPS 1.2 battery supply into a Chord Dave; balanced out from the Dave to the iCan, which I purchased with the recent iPower Elite power supply (15v); balanced 4 pin XLR Focal Clear MG headphones with the limited edition Dekoni Focal Stellia ear pads. I also have a Aries Mini (optical out to the Dave) and am currently enjoying Naim Radio from that source – recommended for some great music.

I’ve only had the iFi gear for a few days — not up to 100 hours yet — but it sounds wonderful in Tube mode. I’ll miss my amps and speakers, but this is definitely something I can live with. I don’t know how much the Elite power supply contributes to the sound quality as I’ve not tried the supplied supply. I even bought the somewhat overpriced stand, but it sure looks dinky.
Of course, I could just have used the Dave’s headphone output. The Dave is an outstanding, very transparent DAC, but it can be a little analytical and bright. The sound is warmed up by my tube amps and Sonus Faber speakers and I wanted something similar for headphone listening, which I think I’ve achieved. No, it’s not the same, but I’m very satisfied.

By the way, this forum has proved useful with a tip from a while back. The balanced output of the Dave is massive (something like 6 volts), and when combined with the balanced output to my Focals the level is so high that I have to set the volume at 7 to 8 o’clock, max. The sound is just a bit too punchy, however. I then set the iCan volume to 12 o’clock and reduced the volume of the Dave and now use the latter to adjust volume. The sound quality improved enormously with superior imaging, better tonal colour, and a wider sound stage.


----------



## chaz_flhr

alekc said:


> Or is it the other way around?  I think both provide ifi house signature sound to some extend, but iCan really pushes cans to next level while iDSD has more ifi sound flavor.


Valid points but my cans don’t need a 1/4 of the power the iCan can output but that does allow for limitless headroom.
IMHO pro iCAN is a amazing and versatile amp and the Pro iDSD is a amazing and versatile DAC together the versatility and sound tailoring the combination offers is off the charts.
Other tubes will make a bigger difference in the sound signature than the stock tubes.
I also agree that the iDSD is not a cheap product.


----------



## Louisiana

I actually wanted to install two GE 5 Stars, unfortunately the dealer sent me two different ones...


----------



## Shane D (May 28, 2021)

Got my remote today. Very light and very small. Works perfectly, as in it will give you the choice of 100 increments or hold the button down and the volume dial will fly.

The remote is really valuable for this amp for two reasons:
1) The volume dial is Very stiff and I assume that it is related to it being motorized.
And
2) The volume dial and the 3D knob are Very close together and it can be tough to adjust one without adjusting the other.

For the above reasons I think this remote will get much more use than the Violectric remote. The Vio remote is Huge and the volume dial is a joy to use manually.

My listening partner didn't seem overly impressed though...


----------



## Gene4797 (May 28, 2021)

Hello, just got my exchange unit and new unit has same problem with screen, even worth than first one, one the screen black lines, maybe it's normal for unit which one price almost $3000, I have no words, I don't feel comfortable to call again to store with same problem and I understand it's not store fault because unit was 100% unused. Maybe I just have bad luck ? I like to correct, in 6-7 hours screen got fix by itself, sorry guys for your time!!!


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Louisiana said:


> I actually wanted to install two GE 5 Stars, unfortunately the dealer sent me two different ones...


Hello, the IFI support team helped me troubleshoot a problem I had with my unit and came to the conclusion that I need to change the tubes. I was wondering if you can tell me which screwdriver or allen wrench key I need to open the unit. I don't have any experience doing this sort of operation but one has to start somewhere.

Maybe anyone that has opened the unit can comment on this too.


----------



## Louisiana

Nicolas Yance said:


> I was wondering if you can tell me which screwdriver or allen wrench key I need to open the unit. I don't have any experience doing this sort of operation but one has to start somewhere.


It’s called Torx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx?wprov=sfti1

The Size I can’t remember


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Louisiana said:


> It’s called Torx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx?wprov=sfti1
> 
> The Size I can’t remember


Thank you. I'm going to look for a set.


----------



## robo24

This video shows how to open it up. Ignore all the front part. You don't need to touch any of it to open the case and roll tubes. Just the screws at the back. Learned it the hard way by wasting my time on the front parts because of this video.


----------



## Spedinfargo

Anyone using the NEO iDSD with the iCan Pro?  I've seen some people in the thread mentioning the PRO iDSD used as a DAC for this, but didn't see the NEO mentioned in the thread (probably because that's still a relatively new product).  Also seen a lot of reviews comparing the NEO iDSD vs PRO iDSD straight-up, but a lot of those tend to focus on the headphone amp part of the NEO.

The NEO definitely seems like a great affordable choice for the iCAN (compared to the PRO iDSD), so curious on thoughts...


----------



## Pashmeister

Any problems connecting iCan as a preamp into to two separate amps? One connected via RCA the other via XLR. I plan on connecting to powered monitors and also to a separate power amp driving abyss 1266 headphones. Thanks!


----------



## makan

Pashmeister said:


> Any problems connecting iCan as a preamp into to two separate amps? One connected via RCA the other via XLR. I plan on connecting to powered monitors and also to a separate power amp driving abyss 1266 headphones. Thanks!


Done that before and it wasn't a problem.


----------



## dcguy73

Spedinfargo said:


> Anyone using the NEO iDSD with the iCan Pro?  I've seen some people in the thread mentioning the PRO iDSD used as a DAC for this, but didn't see the NEO mentioned in the thread (probably because that's still a relatively new product).  Also seen a lot of reviews comparing the NEO iDSD vs PRO iDSD straight-up, but a lot of those tend to focus on the headphone amp part of the NEO.
> 
> The NEO definitely seems like a great affordable choice for the iCAN (compared to the PRO iDSD), so curious on thoughts...


The Neo is a more affordable option, but the Pro components are designed to complement each other. If you want to dip your toe in the water, go for the Neo, but if you want to jump in fully, go for the iDSD Pro (or wait for whenever the next version of it comes out, post-chip shortage).


----------



## chaz_flhr

dcguy73 said:


> The Neo is a more affordable option, but the Pro components are designed to complement each other. If you want to dip your toe in the water, go for the Neo, but if you want to jump in fully, go for the iDSD Pro (or wait for whenever the next version of it comes out, post-chip shortage).


The pro combo while expensive offers amazing value and sound tailoring between the 2 units IMHO, especially with upgraded tubes in both units.


----------



## Louisiana

chaz_flhr said:


> The pro combo while expensive offers amazing value and sound tailoring between the 2 units IMHO, especially with upgraded tubes in both units.



I think so.
As soon as I find a used one for a good price, I'll buy it.


----------



## Terr0rSandmann (Jun 22, 2021)

@iFi audio @Sebastien Chiu .. I have purchased an iCan Pro 2 days ago and would like to ask you if it is allowed to change the tubes? Or will I lose the warrenty with the tube exchange? I mean, it is really easy to exchange it by my own.

Sorry if this was already discussed on one of the 119 pages.


----------



## Sebastien Chiu

Terr0rSandmann said:


> @iFi audio @Sebastien Chiu .. I have purchased an iCan Pro 2 days ago and would like to ask you if it is allowed to change the tubes? Or will I lose the warrenty with the tube exchange? I mean, it is really easy to exchange it by my own.
> 
> Sorry if this was already discussed on one of the 119 pages.



Yes, it does void the warranty!


----------



## dcguy73 (Jun 22, 2021)

Terr0rSandmann said:


> @iFi audio @Sebastien Chiu .. I have purchased an iCan Pro 2 days ago and would like to ask you if it is allowed to change the tubes? Or will I lose the warrenty with the tube exchange? I mean, it is really easy to exchange it by my own.
> 
> Sorry if this was already discussed on one of the 119 pages.



iFi provides a one-year warranty. That goes by pretty fast. You could wait out the warranty and upgrade your tubes afterwards, or do it now. It's a calculated risk. While the amp in its default state sounds fine, the sound quality improvements from putting in better tubes are significant.

Official warranty policy aside, I don't think iFi is going to turn you away if you have a problem with the amp, even if you upgrade the tubes. I'd say that most of the people posting in this thread have changed out the tubes in their iCan Pro. If you read through the thread, others have run into various issues with the amp (not necessarily related to tubes) and have been helped out by members of the forum and/or iFi themselves.

***YMMV. I don't pretend to speak for iFi. My comments are based on my experiences in the forum.


----------



## iFi audio

dcguy73 said:


> Official warranty policy aside, I don't think iFi is going to turn you away if you have a problem with the amp, even if you upgrade the tubes.



Suffice it to say, we help if we can, and often in case of products well past their warranty


----------



## Terr0rSandmann

Yes, I have really really good experience with iFis support. Always very exemplary and customer-oriented, but I do not risk anything.
I will just test the device for few more days/weeks at its stock tubes.


----------



## Glokta

What would be the optimal input voltage for balanced / XLR ?  I can tweak the output of my DAC to get different values, right now it's about 3.4V using http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm


----------



## FooFighter

Hi folks 
I have just ordered some B stock Ican Pro and after reading some reviews complaining about the IEM attenuation I am wondering if that was a wise decision for running my 24 Ohms Denon AH-D9200 and Traillii IEMS balanced (Sensitivity of 112 dB and Impedance of 21 ohms).
Will that work fine on the 6.3mm balanced out?
Is the gain switchable for the balanced 6.3mm?
Which adapter do you suggest from 4,4mm to 6,3mm?
Thx


----------



## lafeuill

I use all my iems out of the Pro iCan XLR output, with an XLR 4pin male to 4.4mm female monobloc adapter, works wonders. No noise at gain 0.


----------



## FooFighter (Jun 27, 2021)

lafeuill said:


> I use all my iems out of the Pro iCan XLR output, with an XLR 4pin male to 4.4mm female monobloc adapter, works wonders. No noise at gain 0.


Merci bien!
Can you send me a link for such an adapter?
Should this one work?
https://amazon.de/dp/B085WMKHMZ


----------



## lafeuill

Sent you a PM, but might as well share the info here :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001108541655.html






Tight connection and well crafted. Recommended.


----------



## Shane D

I have to say that after almost two months of ownership I really love this amp!
At first I was trying to adjust the amp for every 'phone, but I don't think I have to now. I Really enjoy the X-bass AND the 3D sound effects. I think I will just use this amp with headphones that benefit from these effects. Like the Monolith M1570's. This amp makes these headphones sound full, wide and bassy. In short, Awesome!
It also does very well with the Beyer DT880 and the Grado GH2's. I will run them all again this week. 
I also have a set of Argons due in this week.

Unlike my first impressions, I think this amp is noticeably better than my other amps. Simply put, it does stuff the others don't. It was a very good purchase.


----------



## hawk13

FYI, the combination of balanced connections and clean power with *useful* tone controls make it also a fantastic preamp.


----------



## Benno1988

Is there any talk of a replacement? iCan Pro 2.0 ?

Our local store is clearing them out not to get them back in...


----------



## Terr0rSandmann

Benno1988 said:


> Is there any talk of a replacement? iCan Pro 2.0 ?
> 
> Our local store is clearing them out not to get them back in...



As far as I know, ifi will release a Signature version in October and a complete new version somewhere afterwards. Maybe similar to the micro iDSD releases with the Signature and Diablo.


----------



## Benno1988

Terr0rSandmann said:


> As far as I know, ifi will release a Signature version in October and a complete new version somewhere afterwards. Maybe similar to the micro iDSD releases with the Signature and Diablo.


Of the Pro?


----------



## Terr0rSandmann

Benno1988 said:


> Of the Pro?



Yes. But just rumors. I am just an user who reads here and there


----------



## Nisachar

why not release simultaneously. What’s a signature edition anyway?


----------



## Ross Kyle

Nisachar said:


> why not release simultaneously. What’s a signature edition anyway?


new version hmm I wonder


----------



## iFi audio

Terr0rSandmann said:


> As far as I know, ifi will release a Signature version in October and a complete new version somewhere afterwards.



Thanks, I wasn't aware!


----------



## Benno1988

iFi audio said:


> Thanks, I wasn't aware!


But the iCan IS discontinued yeah?

Surely something new coming.


----------



## Terr0rSandmann

iFi audio said:


> Thanks, I wasn't aware!


As I said. Just rumours.


----------



## Nisachar (Jul 10, 2021)

My dealer mentioned there is to be a new version. V1 was in stock when ordered but the dealer called to refund the amount and said it was to be discontinued.

I asked to keep it on hold and buzz me when the new version arrives.

This was in early April.


----------



## 21qz

Question, I’m interested in everything the ican pro/idsd has to offer except for the tube feature as i have a dedicated tube amp. Is there another stack or aio out there that is equal to this combo minus the tubes?


----------



## Shane D

21qz said:


> Question, I’m interested in everything the ican pro/idsd has to offer except for the tube feature as i have a dedicated tube amp. Is there another stack or aio out there that is equal to this combo minus the tubes?


I do not find the Pro iCAN real tubey and I keep it in tube mode. It is not nearly as tubey as my Little Dot MKIII, which is an OTL tube amp. 
I would rank it closer to my other hybrid, the Liquid Platinum.

What is your current tube amp?


----------



## 21qz

Shane D said:


> I do not find the Pro iCAN real tubey and I keep it in tube mode. It is not nearly as tubey as my Little Dot MKIII, which is an OTL tube amp.
> I would rank it closer to my other hybrid, the Liquid Platinum.
> 
> What is your current tube amp?


Mha200


----------



## Shane D

21qz said:


> Mha200


First off, nice amp!  
From what I have read the higher end tube amps are not the gooey, thick monsters and it is not OTL.

Not sure how it will compare to the Pro iCAN, but what stands out to me with this amp is the bass boost and the 3D effect, with certain headphones. I never even think of it as a tube amp.


----------



## Ficcion2

iFi also stated that the Micro BL wasn't to get any updated since you couldn't improve on its sonic/versatile qualities yet 4-5 months later the Signature came out and soon after the Diablo.

So maybe there's credibility to these rumors especially dealers are saying so. 
Im also interested in a new iFi dedicated desktop amp but I don't really need the tubes either.
Any way interesting rumors...


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Shane D said:


> I do not find the Pro iCAN real tubey and I keep it in tube mode. It is not nearly as tubey as my Little Dot MKIII, which is an OTL tube amp.
> I would rank it closer to my other hybrid, the Liquid Platinum.
> 
> What is your current tube amp?


I had the same opinion but after switching tubes for Wester Electric JW2C51, I changed my mind. I no longer have the need to boost the bass with the knob. Even when I play with my HD800S. Also gained a bit more soundstage, overall a fuller sound. Not on the same level as my WA5 but different enough to keep them both.


----------



## 21qz

What DAC you guys running?


----------



## chaz_flhr (Jul 10, 2021)

Shane D said:


> I do not find the Pro iCAN real tubey and I keep it in tube mode. It is not nearly as tubey as my Little Dot MKIII, which is an OTL tube amp.
> I would rank it closer to my other hybrid, the Liquid Platinum.
> 
> What is your current tube amp?


Have you upgraded the tubes?, I found stock tube sound signature similar to the SS mode unit I changed tubes. I also upgraded my tubes and caps in my LP.


----------



## chaz_flhr

21qz said:


> What DAC you guys running?


Pro iDSD here


----------



## Shane D

21qz said:


> What DAC you guys running?


I am running a Schiit BF2.


----------



## Louisiana

21qz said:


> What DAC you guys running?







I had a lot of DACs before, from DS to R2R, from Schiit to Adi2 and Denafrips, but these combo iCAN & iDSD is the best i ever heard.


----------



## 21qz

Has anyone paired with either a smsl or matrix dac?


----------



## Terr0rSandmann

21qz said:


> Has anyone paired with either a smsl or matrix dac?



SMSL and Matrix are just brands. What do you want to hear?


----------



## 21qz

Terr0rSandmann said:


> SMSL and Matrix are just brands. What do you want to hear?


Sorry matrix x or smsl vmv d1se or equivalent.


----------



## iFi audio

Terr0rSandmann said:


> As I said. Just rumours.


Who knows, maybe there's something there. Or maybe not


----------



## Shane D (Jul 11, 2021)

chaz_flhr said:


> Have you upgraded the tubes?, I found stock tube sound signature similar to the SS mode unit I changed tubes. I also upgraded my tubes and caps in my LP.


I have not upgraded yet. The tubes are hard to find and expensive. And I have read about certain tubes just not working with this unit.


----------



## parmy79

iFi audio said:


> Who knows, maybe there's something there. Or maybe not


I, for one, do not find this amusing. I went to my local store and asked SPECIFICALLY whether there is a new one coming in the horizon or are they selling a demo set before I purchased mine. Guess what? In less than 2 months, the demo sale materialised and rumours of a new iCan Pro 2 started circulating. 

This, after an experience of buying the Black Label and have the Signature launch shortly (and oh yes, it died on me and had to be replaced under warranty). I was very new to the audio game then but sucked it up given the low quantum. 2 in a row makes it quite difficult for me to purchase any more Ifi products without looking over my shoulder thinking when my new toy will become obsolete.


----------



## Levanter

parmy79 said:


> I, for one, do not find this amusing. I went to my local store and asked SPECIFICALLY whether there is a new one coming in the horizon or are they selling a demo set before I purchased mine. Guess what? In less than 2 months, the demo sale materialised and rumours of a new iCan Pro 2 started circulating.
> 
> This, after an experience of buying the Black Label and have the Signature launch shortly (and oh yes, it died on me and had to be replaced under warranty). I was very new to the audio game then but sucked it up given the low quantum. 2 in a row makes it quite difficult for me to purchase any more Ifi products without looking over my shoulder thinking when my new toy will become obsolete.



Too be fair to iFi, the Black Label & Pro iCan have been out for 4 & 5+ years which by today's standard is already very long. It's not surprising if a 2nd/updated version is released any time now.
Compared to DAP manufacturers e.g. iBasso, FiiO, AK, Hiby, Shanling, etc. with their ridiculous yearly/bi-yearly release akin to smartphones...


----------



## parmy79

Levanter said:


> Too be fair to iFi, the Black Label & Pro iCan have been out for 4 & 5+ years which by today's standard is already very long. It's not surprising if a 2nd/updated version is released any time now.
> Compared to DAP manufacturers e.g. iBasso, FiiO, AK, Hiby, Shanling, etc. with their ridiculous yearly/bi-yearly release akin to smartphones...


My point was I asked specifically. The quantum is nothing I can't afford but I don't enjoy the feeling of not being told the truth just to make a buck. 

In high end business, trust is paramount. I have asked for less discounts from my usual stores (for my other hobbies) during this pandemic to help them make ends meet but I do not foresee this happening to this store or Ifi products as far as my dollar goes.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me but I just want to make my thoughts known to Ifi.


----------



## Nisachar

parmy79 said:


> I, for one, do not find this amusing. I went to my local store and asked SPECIFICALLY whether there is a new one coming in the horizon or are they selling a demo set before I purchased mine. Guess what? In less than 2 months, the demo sale materialised and rumours of a new iCan Pro 2 started circulating.
> 
> This, after an experience of buying the Black Label and have the Signature launch shortly (and oh yes, it died on me and had to be replaced under warranty). I was very new to the audio game then but sucked it up given the low quantum. 2 in a row makes it quite difficult for me to purchase any more Ifi products without looking over my shoulder thinking when my new toy will become obsolete.


Not sure your ican pro will be obsolete anytime soon.
It has got features and then some


----------



## Levanter

parmy79 said:


> My point was I asked specifically. The quantum is nothing I can't afford but I don't enjoy the feeling of not being told the truth just to make a buck.
> 
> In high end business, trust is paramount. I have asked for less discounts from my usual stores (for my other hobbies) during this pandemic to help them make ends meet but I do not foresee this happening to this store or Ifi products as far as my dollar goes.
> 
> I do not expect anyone to agree with me but I just want to make my thoughts known to Ifi.



You asked your local store which is a retailer, not iFi themselves. 
You are nitpicking with the wrong person, unless you specifically asked iFi directly and they told you no.


----------



## iFi audio

parmy79 said:


> I, for one, do not find this amusing. I went to my local store and asked SPECIFICALLY whether there is a new one coming in the horizon or are they selling a demo set before I purchased mine. Guess what? In less than 2 months, the demo sale materialised and rumours of a new iCan Pro 2 started circulating.
> 
> This, after an experience of buying the Black Label and have the Signature launch shortly (and oh yes, it died on me and had to be replaced under warranty). I was very new to the audio game then but sucked it up given the low quantum. 2 in a row makes it quite difficult for me to purchase any more Ifi products without looking over my shoulder thinking when my new toy will become obsolete.



Although I hear you, we don't discuss new product launches or stuff in our pipeline until we're fully ready to do so. We're ALWAYS working on multiple projects, but neither deny nor confirm any of them. It's natural that at some point we have to think how to improve our designs, but products like our Pro range or iDSD BL have been around for years


----------



## chaz_flhr

Shane D said:


> I have not upgraded yet. The tubes are hard to find and expensive. And I have read about certain tubes just not working with this unit.


Yea good ones are expensive and hard to find in closely matched pairs but when you do find some they do make a notable difference between the amp selections especially paired with the pro Ican with upgraded tubes.


----------



## Shane D

chaz_flhr said:


> Yea good ones are expensive and hard to find in closely matched pairs but when you do find some they do make a notable difference between the amp selections especially paired with the pro Ican with upgraded tubes.


I will keep looking. I don't mind the price as much as I would hate to pay it and then they not work in this unit.


----------



## Louisiana

Shane D said:


> I will keep looking. I don't mind the price as much as I would hate to pay it and then they not work in this unit.


Hi,
my recommendation is quite clear: Buy some GE 5-Stars.
I have had meanwhile an amount of tubes inmy Pro iCAN, the holly Bendix, Sylvania D and O Getter, WE396...
Everything - for me! - is nothing in comparison to the 5 stars.

Many tubes become just hyped, for my Bendix I have paid 300 €, and I say it quite honestly: If I compare them to the 5 stars, they were not worth.


----------



## Shane D

Louisiana said:


> Hi,
> my recommendation is quite clear: Buy some GE 5-Stars.
> I have had meanwhile an amount of tubes inmy Pro iCAN, the holly Bendix, Sylvania D and O Getter, WE396...
> Everything - for me! - is nothing in comparison to the 5 stars.
> ...


Can I ask where you bought them?


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Louisiana said:


> Hi,
> my recommendation is quite clear: Buy some GE 5-Stars.
> I have had meanwhile an amount of tubes inmy Pro iCAN, the holly Bendix, Sylvania D and O Getter, WE396...
> Everything - for me! - is nothing in comparison to the 5 stars.
> ...


I quite like the Western Electric, but I haven't tried the 5 Star.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Shane D said:


> Can I ask where you bought them?


You might find them in https://tubedepot.com/


----------



## Ross Kyle

i have WE 396As in but i have 5stars too if i recall haha need to go play with them


----------



## alekc

Anyone has some new experience with using iPower Elite with Pro iCan?


----------



## Nicolas Yance

alekc said:


> Anyone has some new experience with using iPower Elite with Pro iCan?


I can't quote but i remember Ifi saying the one that comes with the unit is the best for it.


----------



## Malevolent

parmy79 said:


> I, for one, do not find this amusing. I went to my local store and asked SPECIFICALLY whether there is a new one coming in the horizon or are they selling a demo set before I purchased mine. Guess what? In less than 2 months, the demo sale materialised and rumours of a new iCan Pro 2 started circulating.
> 
> This, after an experience of buying the Black Label and have the Signature launch shortly (and oh yes, it died on me and had to be replaced under warranty). I was very new to the audio game then but sucked it up given the low quantum. 2 in a row makes it quite difficult for me to purchase any more Ifi products without looking over my shoulder thinking when my new toy will become obsolete.


I don't have any overt intentions to stir the pot, especially in light of your escalating aggravation on this matter. Nevertheless, there are a couple of salient points that I might add -

1) The retailers _may or may not_ know about any upcoming product launches.
2) The retailers may be bound by a strict confidentiality agreement with the company and/or its local/regional distributor.
3) Your Pro iCAN hasn't morphed into a worthless device overnight; it's still a fully-capable desktop amplifier.

In any case, within the audiophile sphere, a product that is over 5 years old is often seen as being a little long in the tooth. This is especially relevant in the portable realm (e.g. DAPs, IEMs).

Anyway, I hope that you'll continue to enjoy the music.


----------



## Malevolent

On the topic of V2 of the iFi Pro iCAN - I am greatly intrigued with the revised model. In early 2021, the Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN stack was 1 of my 2 (final) choices for a complete desktop stack; in the end, I opted for an Yggdrasil and a Ragnarok 2 instead. Sadly, owing to interminable delays, I have recently cancelled my order with Schiit. I have since chosen a different DAC, but my choice of amplifier is still very much up in the air. I'll be eagerly watching iFi for any pending updates.


----------



## Nisachar

I am waiting too for ican pro v2
Heck… considering there is quite a bit of overlap between the ican pro and iDSD… I wouldn’t mind an AIO version


----------



## Gippy

I'm using +9db gain now instead of 0db despite the increased noise floor. The sound feels more alive and snappy, like it has more dynamic range, and this was after going back and forth for a month just to make sure it wasn't just placebo, or the effects of hearing on different days.

As for the "v2" of this, what I'd like is a "lite" $1000ish version without the tube amp, cleaner +9db gain, class AB instead of A so it isn't a space heater, and with the variable XBass/3D. iFi has products like the Zen CAN, iDSD Signature, and Neo iDSD, but they all lack the variable XBass/3D that's only on the Pro iCAN.


----------



## tamleo (Aug 17, 2021)

Gippy said:


> I'm using +9db gain now instead of 0db despite the increased noise floor. The sound feels more alive and snappy, like it has more dynamic range, and this was after going back and forth for a month just to make sure it wasn't just placebo, or the effects of hearing on different days.
> 
> As for the "v2" of this, what I'd like is a "lite" $1000ish version without the tube amp, cleaner +9db gain, class AB instead of A so it isn't a space heater, and with the variable XBass/3D. iFi has products like the Zen CAN, iDSD Signature, and Neo iDSD, but they all lack the variable XBass/3D that's only on the Pro iCAN.


Imo No way a class ab amplifier sounds as good as a class a amplifier (given that both amps are well implemented).
I just hope the v2 pro ican will come with only 2 type of audio jacks: the 4.4mm and the 6.3mm. Adding the black colored version. And by a somewhat lower price Ifi will take my money hh


----------



## Shane D

I mistakenly thought they are phasing out this amp out but a guy on another site mentioned that he ordered one and it is two weeks out. And he stated that several stores are still still stocking/selling them.

My only complaint on the machine is the headphone outputs. Who uses dual XLR? And the 1/4" output is flimsy because it shares that port. And it would be nice to see a 4.4mm port.

Other than that, it is AWESOME!


----------



## Shane D

And I have to backtrack on my last statement. The guy I was referring to went back and forth with his dealer and an iFi rep. In the end he was told that it is discontinued and his dealer cannot get more.

Here's to hoping for a revision/replacement. 

Glad I got mine.


----------



## dcguy73

alekc said:


> Anyone has some new experience with using iPower Elite with Pro iCan?


Yes, go for it. It's a great match.


----------



## alekc

dcguy73 said:


> Yes, go for it. It's a great match.


Thank you for a confirmation. Could you share some more details why is it worthy upgrade please?


----------



## dcguy73 (Aug 18, 2021)

alekc said:


> Thank you for a confirmation. Could you share some more details why is it worthy upgrade please?


Well, for one thing, you can roll your own power cable with it, so that opens up a lot of possibilities. And it gives the iCan Pro a blacker background that allows you to hear more details. If you want to take it to the next level, you could buy an iPower Elite and get the matching iFi SupaNova power cable that provides active power conditioning/surge protection. The two together make the background even quieter and allow you to not worry about power conditioning or surge protection and plug the iCan Pro directly into the wall.


----------



## Shane D

I have been using this amp regularly for months. It has made a few amazing partnerships in my headphone collection.

Top of the list would be the Monoprice M1570's. They are large, heavy and relatively cheap, especially when found on sale. I am guessing that most buyers of this amp probably have much more expensive headphones than these.
However, if you come across them on sale or used, give them a try.

I run the X-Bass maxed out and the 3D also maxed out. They require Very little power to run. I was tired of the flimsy 1/4" socket and ordered a Hart Audio Cable so that I can use the XLR port. They certainly don't require the extra power of balanced out though.
I run it in tube mode, in low gain and the volume at 9:00. I am probably only using 5 to 10% of this units power.

These headphones sound so deep, wide and clear. The bass is impressive and mids more so. It is a really impressive experience. I have a top three headphones in my collection. They are, to me, way above all the others.
But this combo is blowing me away. I am going to spend the next week riding this pair of machines and very occasionally trying out other amps for brief periods. If this keeps up after a week, I will have a top four in the headphone club. 

The other Amazing partner are the T60 Argons. That would be a different post though.


----------



## alekc

dcguy73 said:


> Well, for one thing, you can roll your own power cable with it, so that opens up a lot of possibilities. And it gives the iCan Pro a blacker background that allows you to hear more details. If you want to take it to the next level, you could buy an iPower Elite and get the matching iFi SupaNova power cable that provides active power conditioning/surge protection. The two together make the background even quieter and allow you to not worry about power conditioning or surge protection and plug the iCan Pro directly into the wall.


@dcguy73 thank you for taking time to share all those findings. In my case iCan Pro already has a decent black background but it may be still worth to check out this possible upgrade path. I would like iCan Pro to be more dynamic, but it seems that Niimbus maybe what I am looking for. Overall this is great amp with one single drawback: it makes you want more


----------



## vonBaron

Niimbus is two levels above Pro ICan.


----------



## alekc

vonBaron said:


> Niimbus is two levels above Pro ICan.


Two questions: 


Which amp is just a single level above Pro iCan?
Which amp is a level above Niimbus?


----------



## vonBaron

1. Maybe V550?
2. Idk, best so far i heard is Niimbus.


----------



## dcguy73

Aren't we talking apples and oranges here?

The iCan Pro is a hybrid tube/solid-state amp. @vonBaron, all the "better" amps you've referenced are solid-state.


----------



## vonBaron

But still it have SS mode.


----------



## alekc

dcguy73 said:


> Aren't we talking apples and oranges here?
> 
> The iCan Pro is a hybrid tube/solid-state amp. @vonBaron, all the "better" amps you've referenced are solid-state.


It depends if you are looking for particular sound signature / SQ only or are you looking for it with particular topology. In any case Pro iCan has a place on my desk due to its nature.


----------



## vonBaron (Aug 19, 2021)

Pro ICAN is very versatile amp, it have almost everything but if you want better SQ SS for similar price you can. Tube mode is very average unless you don't change tubes.


----------



## dcguy73 (Aug 19, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> Pro ICAN is very versatile amp, it have almost everything but if you want better SQ SS for similar price you can. Tube mode is very average unless you don't change tubes.


@vonBaron, I agree. @alekc, I own the Pathos Inpol Ear hybrid tube/solid-state amp and very much enjoy it. I think it is definitely a level or two above the iCan Pro. It is not nearly as versatile with settings (it does have an optional DAC built-in), but the sound quality is excellent.


----------



## vonBaron

But if you add better tubes and LPS to ICan you have IMO best AMP for under 2500$.


----------



## Gippy

Amusing discussion about asking which amp is "better" than the Pro iCAN. Imagine buying this amp without the intention to use XBass/3D, because that's really what's going for it. If I wanted a "gain wire amp" I would've looked at other options. You can't compare this amp to anything else on the market other than iFi's other products with XBass/3D.


----------



## alekc

Gippy said:


> Amusing discussion about asking which amp is "better" than the Pro iCAN. Imagine buying this amp without the intention to use XBass/3D, because that's really what's going for it. If I wanted a "gain wire amp" I would've looked at other options. You can't compare this amp to anything else on the market other than iFi's other products with XBass/3D.


Honestly speaking I think that there is a lot more to both Pro iCan or any other decent amp than just 3d/xbass. I love xbass for some tracks; 3d works nicely on some particular recordings for me but Pro iCan made me to seek for SS amp that could be more dynamic, maybe with blacker background and wider sound stage.


----------



## tamleo

alekc said:


> Honestly speaking I think that there is a lot more to both Pro iCan or any other decent amp than just 3d/xbass. I love xbass for some tracks; 3d works nicely on some particular recordings for me but Pro iCan made me to seek for SS amp that could be more dynamic, maybe with blacker background and wider sound stage.


do the pro ican have an intimate soundstage? Tks


----------



## alekc

tamleo said:


> do the pro ican have an intimate soundstage? Tks


I'm really poor at all those naming conventions especially since those terms means usually something different to different people. I'd say there are amps with better soundstage but those I've heard were more expensive than iCan. It has wider stage than iCan SE, but I like both and I'm using both with different setups.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Yes the Pro iCan is more intimate than other amps but I manage to make it wider by swapping the tubes like others recommended before.


----------



## alekc

Guess what I will be testing with Pro iCan tonight... Big "thank you" goes to @vonBaron and @dcguy73 for their insignit regarding different PSUs for iCan.


----------



## zolom

If there is an issue with the operation of the tubes that might require a replace.

Which tubes fit and are recomnebded for the iFi ICan?
I undestand that the originals are either the GE5670s or the WE2C51 (please correct me if I am wrong)

Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

alekc said:


> Guess what I will be testing with Pro iCan tonight... Big "thank you" goes to @vonBaron and @dcguy73 for their insignit regarding different PSUs for iCan.



Fabulous! Please do let us know how this PSU works for you 



zolom said:


> I undestand that the originals are either the GE5670s



GE JAN 5670 are original tubes inside the product. If you'd like something better, then you could use costlier WE6922 for example


----------



## zolom

iFi audio said:


> GE JAN 5670 are original tubes inside the product. If you'd like something better, then you could use costlier WE6922 for example


Thanks. 
1. What is the contribution of the WE6922?
2. Does the WE6922 fits the pin layout of the original tube (no need for adapter)? 

Thanks again


----------



## Nicolas Yance

WE 2c51 is the correct.


----------



## zolom

This is the response from iFi support
...........................

Thank you for your message regarding a Pro iCAN 

We would recommend using the GE5670 Tube and would suggest that you purchase them from the internet as we do not have a purchase price available.

Kind regards


----------



## Louisiana

iFi audio said:


> GE JAN 5670 are original tubes inside the product. If you'd like something better, then you could use costlier WE6922 for example


That must be a typo, no tubes of type 6922 fit into the iCAN


----------



## Nicolas Yance

I bought a pair of WE JW2c51 from tube depot. They are great sounding tubes.


----------



## Louisiana

Nicolas Yance said:


> I bought a pair of WE JW2c51 from tube depot. They are great sounding tubes.


I tried a lot of tubes, and for me, the best are WE396.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

I though they were the same. What’s the difference between them?


----------



## Louisiana

Nicolas Yance said:


> I though they were the same. What’s the difference between them?


sorry my mistake, thought you talked about these tubes:
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/2c51-...mc/united-branded-made-by-tungsol-usa-nos/nib


----------



## zolom (Sep 2, 2021)

Louisiana said:


> I tried a lot of tubes, and for me, the best are WE396.


How easy it is to replace thrse tubes?  Just pull the old one and insert/push the new?

Is there a need for a tube's base adapters?

What is the known differnce between the WE396/2c51 and the GE5670?

Thanks


----------



## vonBaron (Sep 2, 2021)

Just like that but is very hard to take out stock tubes for first time. You must be gentle and decided at one.


----------



## Louisiana

zolom said:


> How easy it is to replace thrse tubes?  Just pull the old one and ibsertvthe new?
> Is there a need for ant tube tube's base adapters?o


you have to pull them out carefully, wiggle a little to the right and left, and pull at the same time.
No adapter needed.


zolom said:


> What is the known differnce between the WE396/2c51 and the GE5670?


Here is a great description:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/5670-w396a-2c51-6n3p-tube-thread.680910/page-2#post-12390227

But not all of the tubes from this thread will work with iCAN.
Tubes what work:

Bendix
Sylvania
Western Electrics
GE 5 Stars


----------



## vonBaron

Bendix was my fav, after place them i never liten SS mode again.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

vonBaron said:


> Bendix was my fav, after place them i never liten SS mode again.


If I may ask, where did you get your bendix?


----------



## vonBaron

eBay


----------



## zolom (Sep 2, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> Bendix was my fav, after place them i never liten SS mode again.


Can you send me a link fircthos Bendix (is it the Bendix 6385?).
Are thos fully compatible/insertable with the tube sockets  on theifi ican ?

Thanks


----------



## vonBaron

No, they long gone.


----------



## zolom (Sep 2, 2021)

Bebdix 6385/2c51.
Here (out of stock) the cost is 40 euro.
On other ebay sites (may be available) , more than 100 euro!!


----------



## Louisiana

zolom said:


> Bebdix 6385/2c51.
> Here (out of stock) the cost is 40 euro.
> On other ebay sites (may be available) , more than 100 euro!!


I paid for my pair of Bendix 350€.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Russian 6N3P-E are of the same pinout and electrical characteristics as well.


----------



## zolom (Sep 5, 2021)

Got the iFi Pro iCan for my bedside setup.
Sounds great.
Tube mode is just fantastic.
Cannot notice much differnce between tube and tube+ modes.
Furthermore,  I cannot precieve noticable change between different states of the 3D+ selector.  Is it related to my headphones (focal stellia)?  Can you point me to a music track that will enable to emphasize the differnce beteen 3D+ states.

Thanks


----------



## Shane D

zolom said:


> Got the iFi Pro iCan for my bedside setup.
> Sounds great.
> Tube mode is just fantastic.
> Cannot notice much differnce between tube and tube+ modes.
> ...


I find the 3D setting completely dependent on the headphones used. With some, it is amazing and with others, I don't notice anything. 
It is a Great amp if you have a large or diverse collection.


----------



## alekc

zolom said:


> Got the iFi Pro iCan for my bedside setup.
> Sounds great.
> Tube mode is just fantastic.
> Cannot notice much differnce between tube and tube+ modes.
> ...


@zolom 3D can be very cans dependant but nevertheless it works best with acoustic music from my experience. One record I like listening with a 3d enabled is: 

Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio ‎– Autumn In Seattle





https://www.discogs.com/Tsuyoshi-Yamamoto-Trio-Autumn-In-Seattle/master/573997


----------



## Shane D

Does anybody know if anyone has measured the balanced output of the Pro iCAN above 16 Ohms? Or know of a formula to calculate it?

I am really curious about the rated output at 32 Ohms, 50 Ohms and 300 Ohms.

Thanks.


----------



## Ross Kyle

Shane D said:


> Does anybody know if anyone has measured the balanced output of the Pro iCAN above 16 Ohms? Or know of a formula to calculate it?
> 
> I am really curious about the rated output at 32 Ohms, 50 Ohms and 300 Ohms.
> 
> Thanks.


I went off roughly doing , 14* 16/ impedance you want to find out , so when i was calculating susvara at 60 , i’d get 3.73 w but that’s not really accounting for sensitivity etc so was me doing very rough math


----------



## zolom (Sep 6, 2021)

iFi Pro iCan, ran really hot,  so I had to remove the Hugo 2, which was placed on top of it (separated by 1cm layer ofhard foam).
Now heat dissipation is better managed.


----------



## Ross Kyle

zolom said:


> iFi Pro iCan,  runs so hot so I had to remove the Hugo 2, which was placed on it (separated by 1cm hard foam).


I use isoacoustic feet to separate mine , i had same issue as ican can hit over 70 degrees celsius 😂


----------



## zolom

Ross Kyle said:


> I use isoacoustic feet to separate mine , i had same issue as ican can hit over 70 degrees celsius 😂


The heat radiating from my iCAN after some 2-3 hours of listening at tube mode and +9db,  had radiated up and almost cooked the Hugo 2 which was placed on it,  separated by heat isolating semi hard foam of more than 1cm width.


----------



## iFi audio

zolom said:


> The heat radiating from my iCAN after some 2-3 hours of listening at tube mode and +9db, had radiated up and almost cooked the Hugo 2 which was placed on it, separated by heat isolating semi hard foam of more than 1cm width.



Pro iCAN operates in class A, so generating lots of heat is what it's supposed to do, but I wouldn't put anything on it


----------



## BlueSkyHi

iFi audio said:


> Pro iCAN operates in class A, so generating lots of heat is what it's supposed to do, but I wouldn't put anything on it


I wonder if the amp in the iDSD runs in class A as well?  Anybody know?


----------



## Shane D

Ross Kyle said:


> I went off roughly doing , 14* 16/ impedance you want to find out , so when i was calculating susvara at 60 , i’d get 3.73 w but that’s not really accounting for sensitivity etc so was me doing very rough math


I am looking at the HiFiman HE6se V2. At 50 Ohms, I figure it could be anywhere from 4 to 6 watts, but of course I am just guessing.


----------



## zolom (Sep 7, 2021)

My recently purchased used iCan Pro (~3 years old) is so *gooood* with the Hugo 2 and Focal Stellia.
Tube mode, slight Xbass,  +9bB (tuned to this level by lowering the Hugo's volume), no 3D+ (almost not noticable with the Stellia), the somewhat  analytical dryness of the Hugo is gone,  a lot of ooomps is availabe,  highs are abliss.
Looks like I'm in music heaven.


----------



## robo24

zolom said:


> My recently purchased used iCan Pro (~3 years old) is so *gooood* with the Hugo 2 and Focal Stellia.
> Tube mode, slight Xbass,  +9bB (tuned to this level by lowering the Hugo's volume), no 3D+ (almost not noticable with the Stellia), the somewhat  analytical dryness of the Hugo is gone,  a lot of ooomps is availabe,  highs are abliss.
> Looks like I'm in music heaven.


Even with the TT2, which costs several times what the iCan Pro does, the amp in any of the modes sounds much more full and less shouty than the amp in the TT2. I used the Hugo 2 with the iCan for a year or so and found it had a lot of synergy.


----------



## Slim1970 (Sep 7, 2021)

robo24 said:


> Even with the TT2, which costs several times what the iCan Pro does, the amp in any of the modes sounds much more full and less shouty than the amp in the TT2. I used the Hugo 2 with the iCan for a year or so and found it had a lot of synergy.


When, I had the Pro iCan the Hugo 2 was the DAC I had paired with it while I was waiting on the Pro iDSD to be released. Regrettably, I sold the Pro iCan before I could pair the two together.


----------



## iFi audio

BlueSkyHi said:


> I wonder if the amp in the iDSD runs in class A as well? Anybody know?



Pro iDSD doesn't have a separate amp, its line driver is powerful enough to amplify cans and it is biased into class A


----------



## Ross Kyle

iFi audio said:


> Pro iDSD doesn't have a separate amp, its line driver is powerful enough to amplify cans and it is biased into class A



quick question then is it pure Class A operation then or it’s extremely Biased AB for ican ,  i know the statement about AB at a certain threshold


----------



## Shane D

Slim1970 said:


> When, I had the Pro iCan the Hugo 2 was the DAC I had paired withmit while I was waiting on the Pro iDSD to be released. Regrettably, I sold the Pro iCan before I could pair the two together.


I think it pairs nicely with the BF2.


----------



## Slim1970

Shane D said:


> I think it pairs nicely with the BF2.


I haven’t tried any of the Shiit DACs, but I heard good things about them.


----------



## iFi audio

Ross Kyle said:


> quick question then is it pure Class A operation then or it’s extremely Biased AB for ican , i know the statement about AB at a certain threshold



Suffice it to say, If it were biased into class AB at some point, we'd say so


----------



## iFi audio

Slim1970 said:


> I haven’t tried any of the Shiit DACs, but I heard good things about them.



So did we


----------



## Ross Kyle

iFi audio said:


> Suffice it to say, If it were biased into class AB at some point, we'd say so


Good to know , i can attest to Class A operation with the heat haha 72/73 celsius was highest i found once on tube mode 😂


----------



## Shane D

I am very excited to see what my Pro can do with the HE6se V2's. Just hit the Buy button at $599.00.


----------



## Pashmeister

https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-ican-signature/

Hmmm


----------



## makan

Pashmeister said:


> https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-ican-signature/
> 
> Hmmm


interesting..looks like a better power supply, 4.4mm headphone out and a nice remote that integrates the pro IDSD, and some gold cosmetic trim on the unit.  I wonder how much difference it makes to the ear?

Amp it up to ultra
Enhancements to the *Pro iCAN Signature* include:


Revised circuit design incorporates even more ultra-grade audiophile components
Upgraded power supply circuits to eradicate even more noise and distortion
Top of the range iPower Elite offboard AC/DC power supply included
Hand-selected and matched tubes in the output stage
4.4mm Pentaconn balanced-headphone output
New aluminium remote control


----------



## alekc

Pashmeister said:


> https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-ican-signature/
> 
> Hmmm


Considering I've already added new psu: iPower Elite to my Pro iCan and new ugly look of Signature edition I have no urge to upgrade unless the sound difference will be substantial. Otherwise I am on quest for new dac and amp.


----------



## Slim1970

alekc said:


> Considering I've already added new psu: iPower Elite to my Pro iCan and new ugly look of Signature edition I have no urge to upgrade unless the sound difference will be substantial. Otherwise I am on quest for new dac and amp.


I don't think the new Signature looks that bad. I'm more curious as to how the new upgrades affect the sound.


----------



## Pashmeister (Sep 24, 2021)

alekc said:


> Considering I've already added new psu: iPower Elite to my Pro iCan and new ugly look of Signature edition I have no urge to upgrade unless the sound difference will be substantial. Otherwise I am on quest for new dac and amp.


Honestly it doesn’t look like a huge step up or any design breakthrough or a major component improvement but just many little tweaks here and there, some parts replacement and addition of (not a new design) iPower elite and new connection. That’s not to say those won’t result in a noticeable improvement. Maybe the signature is more like a version 1.2 instead of a version 2? I am just speculating though.


----------



## Nisachar

Well so the cat is out of the bag.
Waiting to get it in my hands..hopefully by next week


----------



## Nicolas Yance

alekc said:


> Considering I've already added new psu: iPower Elite to my Pro iCan and new ugly look of Signature edition I have no urge to upgrade unless the sound difference will be substantial. Otherwise I am on quest for new dac and amp.


The 15v version is the correct one for the Pro iCan, right?


----------



## Ross Kyle

Nicolas Yance said:


> The 15v version is the correct one for the Pro iCan, right?


yes


----------



## zolom (Sep 25, 2021)

Is the SQ significantly improved,  or not?
For me,  that's the only question!

Curremtly seeking Tubes that will really improve the SQ of Tube and Tube+ modes.


----------



## alekc

Nicolas Yance said:


> The 15v version is the correct one for the Pro iCan, right?


@Nicolas Yance I confirm. My review of it is in the works BTW.


----------



## talmadge

When will it be available and what is the cost?


----------



## ToddRaymond

Looks like $2249 USD, and I see at least one retailer who already have stock of it.

Colour me intrigued!

It would indeed be nice to read some comparisons between it and the classic/standard edition, rather than just the usual breakdown of, "it does this, and it does that!" – descriptions of the different modes and such.


----------



## Gippy (Sep 30, 2021)

USD $550 (+25%) price increase over the old Pro iCAN, which was USD $1799. We're getting into ridiculous territory here, so I really hope there's a place to audition the Signature. I don't want to buy it blind because there's no way it'll be sold used for close to its asking price if it doesn't correct the one issue I have with the Pro iCAN: hissing at 9dB gain. Pretty sure it's not the power supply causing it because the Pro iCAN is silent at 0dB gain. Dirty power would cause hissing at all gain levels.


----------



## Nisachar

Chord peeps (or ifi peeps if you will)…

Pair :
TT2 with ican pro

or

IDSD pro with ican pro ?


----------



## alekc

Nisachar said:


> Chord peeps (or ifi peeps if you will)…
> 
> Pair :
> TT2 with ican pro
> ...


I'd rather pair iDSD Pro with iCan Pro than TT2. TT2 does not need external headamp unless you have some very power hungry cans or you want to add tubes. The whole design of TT2 makes most external amps just sound degradation or colorization. If you dislike TT2 sound signature, don't buy it. If you want tubes with TT2 than stock tubes with iCan Pro and Tube/Tube+ mode could be disappointing for you.


----------



## Nisachar

alekc said:


> I'd rather pair iDSD Pro with iCan Pro than TT2. TT2 does not need external headamp unless you have some very power hungry cans or you want to add tubes. The whole design of TT2 makes most external amps just sound degradation or colorization. If you dislike TT2 sound signature, don't buy it. If you want tubes with TT2 than stock tubes with iCan Pro and Tube/Tube+ mode could be disappointing for you.


Interesting.
So you are suggesting tubes don’t gel with the TT2s ?
I plan to use the ican in standard SS mode mainly but it’s a bummer that tube modes with TT2 might sound undesirable.

Also tempted by the mscaler addon later down the road. Might invest in a 1266 TC too.


----------



## Pashmeister

Nisachar said:


> Interesting.
> So you are suggesting tubes don’t gel with the TT2s ?
> I plan to use the ican in standard SS mode mainly but it’s a bummer that tube modes with TT2 might sound undesirable.
> 
> Also tempted by the mscaler addon later down the road. Might invest in a 1266 TC too.


I use a TT2 and I like the XBass feature with it. I also use a TT2 as a DAC before a tube preamp. I like how clean and transparent the TT2 is, but I also like how I can easily add tube coloration on a clean canvas so to speak. I do like the iFi DAC implementations, but I still prefer the TT2 FPGA as a big step up just from a DAC point of view. As an all-in-one, the TT2 ain't too shabby either. The upgrade path of TT2 (e.g. M-Scaler or SRC-DX with HQPlayer) is also quite desirable.


----------



## alekc

Nisachar said:


> Interesting.
> So you are suggesting tubes don’t gel with the TT2s ?
> I plan to use the ican in standard SS mode mainly but it’s a bummer that tube modes with TT2 might sound undesirable.
> 
> Also tempted by the mscaler addon later down the road. Might invest in a 1266 TC too.


@Nisachar no, I am not suggesting that tubes may not play well with TT2 however iCan Pro tube modes are very, very gentle and may not be what you are looking for. Further more the difference between Tube and Tube+ modes can be very subtle.  If you are looking for more tube-centric sound I would choose different amp than iCan Pro with stock tubes. The other thing is that why do you want TT2? If you want it due to very clean sound without distortion than I would rethink adding tubes which will add distortion. If you want to due to its musicality than I would say adding tubes maybe right direction.  

The 2 things where iCan Pro can shine potentially with TT2 is: xbass and 3d. TT2 is great with acoustic music and has already rather wide scene, but you may want to experiment with 3d further. xbass is great with most cans and dacs. Still, I would not pair iCan Pro with TT2.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Nisachar said:


> Interesting.
> So you are suggesting tubes don’t gel with the TT2s ?
> I plan to use the ican in standard SS mode mainly but it’s a bummer that tube modes with TT2 might sound undesirable.
> 
> Also tempted by the mscaler addon later down the road. Might invest in a 1266 TC too.


I own the iCan and iDSD and had the chance to compare the combo with a TT2 and MScaler. Headphone was the TC. 

The ifi combo is great because of versatility and XBass/3d function. The TC does not need a bass or 3d boost, however. In direct comparison, both ifi and chord are very strong and more a preference than a clear winner. ifi is musical and organic, TT2 is holographic and clean. Things get titled in favor of the TT2 with a MScaler, but you also talking about a 5k device added. 

If you want the ifi combo for tubes, do it like me and replace the stock tube with WA396A, see my post      Post #1,576 of 1,922    
I am happy with my idsd/ican with the tc.


----------



## robo24

Nisachar said:


> Interesting.
> So you are suggesting tubes don’t gel with the TT2s ?
> I plan to use the ican in standard SS mode mainly but it’s a bummer that tube modes with TT2 might sound undesirable.
> 
> Also tempted by the mscaler addon later down the road. Might invest in a 1266 TC too.


Boy I only had positive impressions with the iCAN paired with my TT2 in any of the modes. I had WE 396A tubes in mine, but actually mostly used the SS mode with TT2.  I enjoyed that much more than the built in TT2 amp, which itself is pretty good. The iCAN added some warmth and body and smoothed out the shouty tendencies of the TT2. I replaced my iCAN with a ZMF Pendant SE which also goes great with the TT2. The output impedance on the iCAN is also a better match for higher impedance headphones than that on the TT2.


----------



## alekc

robo24 said:


> Boy I only had positive impressions with the iCAN paired with my TT2 in any of the modes. I had WE 396A tubes in mine, but actually mostly used the SS mode with TT2.  I enjoyed that much more than the built in TT2 amp, which itself is pretty good. The iCAN added some warmth and body and smoothed out the shouty tendencies of the TT2. I replaced my iCAN with a ZMF Pendant SE which also goes great with the TT2. The output impedance on the iCAN is also a better match for higher impedance headphones than that on the TT2.


I never said that iCan Pro is not going to be a positive experience, I just think that there are other options but obviously YMMV. However if one is into more smooth, a bit warmer yet musical sound I would get MHA150 instead of TT2 and iCan Pro as much cheaper yet also very enjoyable option. Haven't heard the iCan Pro Signature with TT2 but I don't think it will be a night and day difference.


----------



## robo24

alekc said:


> I never said that iCan Pro is not going to be a positive experience, I just think that there are other options but obviously YMMV. However if one is into more smooth, a bit warmer yet musical sound I would get MHA150 instead of TT2 and iCan Pro as much cheaper yet also very enjoyable option. Haven't heard the iCan Pro Signature with TT2 but I don't think it will be a night and day difference.


Sorry, shouldn't have quoted your post and really meant it as more of a general comment to add to this particular discussion.


----------



## alekc

robo24 said:


> Sorry, shouldn't have quoted your post and really meant it as more of a general comment to add to this particular discussion.


No problem and no offence taken @robo24  Its great to be able to share our own experiences about those great amps  At the end of the day what really matters is to enjoy both the music and the discussion. Nothing beats hearing those amps on your own too.


----------



## Nisachar (Oct 9, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> I like how clean and transparent the TT2 is, but I also like how I can easily add tube coloration on a clean canvas so to speak.


That's what I was thinking too. I can switch to my wa7 FF for tube mode or the SS oomph of the iCan ( + occasional wee bit musicality with tubes on the ican ) while retaining the clarity of the TT2


alekc said:


> iCan Pro tube modes are very, very gentle and may not be what you are looking for





alekc said:


> why do you want TT2? If you want it due to very clean sound without distortion than I would rethink adding tubes which will add distortion. If you want to due to its musicality than I would say adding tubes maybe right direction.


Thanks for your detailed reply.
Regarding the tube sound, I have a wa7 Fireflies 2nd Gen (before this, my only experience with amps was of the SS variety ), and I love the Tube musicality (pairs great with my hd800s).

However, I am not a fan of the tube sound with the Heddphone. And with my LCD-X too, it's a bit too much. So I decided to go with the iCan pro as a good all-rounder amp. 

The tube/Tube+ modes would be helpful for the hd800s too (even if they aren't quite the full tube-y goodness, to add that bit of musicality) + the Xbass to inject some meaty bass back in these cans. 
The SS mode would be for the LCD-X, Heddphone, and the potential 1266 TC.



Hoegaardener70 said:


> TT2 is holographic and clean. Things get titled in favor of the TT2 with a MScaler, but you also talking about a 5k device added.


I am looking for clean. If I am not mistaken, the iCan provides a bit of warmth and a wee bit of tube melody to complement the clean nature of the TT2.

Regarding mscaler, I am trying out the HQplayer, Foobar with PGGB addon, to see if I like these upscaling methods.
- Initial thoughts seem to be that they are driving the audio level down ( I am using the volume knob around the 11-01 o'clock positions with the wa7 amp, whereas before 11 and below were adequate. Or perhaps I am messing something up there. )
- If I like the upscale route, I would rather it gets handled on the HW end so that I am not messing with software settings, tweaking things endlessly, but let's see if I even like this upscaling stuff and whether the software options can handle that for me.
- You are right about the price point, though.


Hoegaardener70 said:


> If you want the ifi combo for tubes, do it like me and replace the stock tube with WA396A, see my post  Post #1,576 of 1,922
> I am happy with my idsd/ican with the tc.


Initially, I did lean towards the ifi stack, and It's good to know the TC does very well with them.

I will certainly give this some thought.
Thanks for your help.



robo24 said:


> The iCAN added some warmth and body and smoothed out the shouty tendencies of the TT2


That's what I thought. They might complement each other. Thanks for confirming.



All in all, fantastic feedback from you all.
Great community.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

My Ifi Power Elite just arrived from Amazon, and I was very sure it would go back and that I would not hear a difference with my iDSD/iCan Pro. 
This thing will go nowhere and stay exactly where it is. More punch, dynamics, space. Amazing. 

The only thing which puzzles me is why ifi Audio slapped the shipping label right on the box, so that the nice packaging arrived in a dirty, battered state. Some paper wrap love for a 330dollar device, please.


----------



## Glokta (Oct 13, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> My Ifi Power Elite just arrived from Amazon, and I was very sure it would go back and that I would not hear a difference with my iDSD/iCan Pro.
> This thing will go nowhere and stay exactly where it is. More punch, dynamics, space. Amazing.
> 
> The only thing which puzzles me is why ifi Audio slapped the shipping label right on the box, so that the nice packaging arrived in a dirty, battered state. Some paper wrap love for a 330dollar device, please.



Exactly my experience, for my secondary setup I've bought a battery for the DAC and an iFi Power Elite for the iCan pro thinking maybe I'll hear a small difference. More like hoping. Oh boy I was in for a treat.
I guess the upgrade to the Signature will not be needed.


----------



## Spedinfargo

Never afraid to ask a stupid question:  is the Power Elite used for the iDSD Pro or the iCan Pro?  Or do you get one for each?


----------



## Ross Kyle

Spedinfargo said:


> Never afraid to ask a stupid question:  is the Power Elite used for the iDSD Pro or the iCan Pro?  Or do you get one for each?


Ideal scenario is one for each , i have one for my idsd then daisy chaining a dc to dc cable into ican will more likely get a secondary elite eventually


----------



## Spedinfargo

Ross Kyle said:


> Ideal scenario is one for each , i have one for my idsd then daisy chaining a dc to dc cable into ican will more likely get a secondary elite eventually


Ahhh - I did a search and found some notes about that on the iDSD Pro thread.  Didn't realize that the iDSD has a DC output for this very purpose.  Thanks!


----------



## Glokta (Oct 14, 2021)

Spedinfargo said:


> Never afraid to ask a stupid question:  is the Power Elite used for the iDSD Pro or the iCan Pro?  Or do you get one for each?



It comes in four different flavors:  5, 12, 15 and 24 V and has some adaptors as well so you can use it with pretty much anything, not just iFi products.


----------



## Ross Kyle

Glokta said:


> It comes in four different flavors:  5, 12, 15 and 24 V and has some adaptors as well so you can use it with pretty much anything, not just iFi products.


kinda wish it had variable voltage that really would have made it shine


----------



## Glokta

Ross Kyle said:


> kinda wish it had variable voltage that really would have made it shine


I agree but I believe that would raise the price considerably and it's already 300 quid a pop.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

One ifi device Pro iDSD is powered with 15v. How can it be that only one power supply with 15v is needed to power two devices (with rhe  pro iDSD and pro iCan connected via the ifi cable for dc out and in)? Does it work like a passthrough?


----------



## Ross Kyle

Hoegaardener70 said:


> One ifi device Pro iDSD is powered with 15v. How can it be that only one power supply with 15v is needed to power two devices (with rhe  pro iDSD and pro iCan connected via the ifi cable for dc out and in)? Does it work like a passthrough?


as far as I know its a pass through , it works and no real drop off , im using a singular elite currently , id imagien they be some what more benefit to a second


----------



## talmadge

With all the tube rolling done here I wonder if anyone has tried a fuse upgrade? Anybody know what size fuse the ican takes?


----------



## Ross Kyle

tube upgrades are legit but a fuse jesus


----------



## talmadge (Oct 26, 2021)

Most would say there’s no difference between tubes, Class A or AB or D solid state, cables, balanced or single ended, etc. How do you know until you try?


----------



## Ross Kyle

talmadge said:


> Most would say there’s no difference between tubes, Class A or AB or D solid state, cables, balanced or single ended, etc. How do you know until you try?


There generally isn’t a sound difference between SE and Balanced cables though , my point being is a fuse will not impart a sonic difference , just one of the snake oils


----------



## jonathan c

Ross Kyle said:


> There generally isn’t a sound difference between SE and Balanced cables though , my point being is a fuse will not impart a sonic difference , just one of the snake oils


Have you tried?


----------



## Ross Kyle

jonathan c said:


> Have you tried?


i’m not going to entertain snake oil or even regard that question


----------



## zolom

New acrylic plastic to enclose the iCan pro and organize my bedside setup


----------



## Nisachar (Nov 8, 2021)

So good folks...
I just got my brand new ican signature.
I promptly got it set up via RCA ( d7s mqa Dac ) and plugged in my Heddphone through the balanced 4.4 connector...
Fired up roon..
And found the sound level ..


... underwhelming ( 0 DB ) 
I even cranked the volume pot all the way up... No success.

What gives? Do I have to use gain? ( I don't want to )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Further troubleshooting :

I connected the Senn HD800s via 4.4 and the result is the same - Underwhelming sound levels.
Fortunately, I have a 4.4 to XLR Adapter.
I connected the Senns using the adapter and while the sound level doesn't increase to ear-splitting levels, it is loud enough that I can now dial the volume pot down (12'o clock ) without losing adequate volume.

I connected the headphone again using the XLR adapter and the sound level is ...adequate yet still a wee bit underwhelming,. I was hoping the ican has enough juice  I never have to move past the 12'o clock position on the headphone. Can't say that's the case here.

Finally, I connected the LCD-X via the single-ended connection. It is a very easy-to-drive pair of cans.. and the ican goes to almost ear-splitting levels past 12'o clock.

Also, the wa7 fireflies does drive all of my cans loud enough even though it has less out power than the iCan pro.

Something's going on with that 4.4 balanced connection and volume levels overall.


----------



## Glokta

You should connect it through XLR, it's a balanced amp and XLR provides double the voltage -> a lot more power.
Why are you so reticent in using the gain switch, it's there for a reason, so you should not need to get past 1-2 o'clock on the volume pot not to mention that the best sound comes when you attenuate the volume on the dac and crank the gain on the amp, especially with delta sigma dacs, opens up the soundstage and tames the edginess a bit, plus a lot of headphones benefit from a higher current.


----------



## Nisachar (Nov 10, 2021)

Glokta said:


> You should connect it through XLR, it's a balanced amp and XLR provides double the voltage -> a lot more power.
> Why are you so reticent in using the gain switch, it's there for a reason, so you should not need to get past 1-2 o'clock on the volume pot not to mention that the best sound comes when you attenuate the volume on the dac and crank the gain on the amp, especially with delta sigma dacs, opens up the soundstage and tames the edginess a bit, plus a lot of headphones benefit from a higher current.


I have never liked gain. for me, the music just seems to bloom too much

Also, look at the following thread where I have discussed the issue in more detail ( and the XLR to XLR connections don't help. I get the same volume levels as RCA )

"https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...-the-pro-range-just-got-better.959878/page-12"


----------



## Glokta

Nisachar said:


> I have never liked gain. for me, the music just seems to bloom too much
> 
> Also, look at the following thread where I have discussed the issue in more detail ( and the XLR to XLR connections don't help. I get the same volume levels as RCA )
> 
> "https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...-the-pro-range-just-got-better.959878/page-12"


Threw my eyes over the other thread, so they forgot to mention that the Pentaconn is in fact a IEMatch output with low voltage? Or is it just your unit that's faulty? Either way, I can see why you're gutted.


----------



## Nisachar

Glokta said:


> they forgot to mention that the Pentaconn is in fact a IEMatch output with low voltage


On the product page ..and the manual.

Also I am not gutted. It’s just a device. Something else can replace it. 

Disappointed?  
Yes. By the misleading information, the lack of knowledge about their own product … and the ‘It’s our mistake but the onus in you to adjust’ attitude !!


----------



## alekc

Interesting pairing. So far checked out only in SS mode. Tube & Tube+ is next. Definitively worth listening on high gain.


----------



## Shane D

alekc said:


> Interesting pairing. So far checked out only in SS mode. Tube & Tube+ is next. Definitively worth listening on high gain.


Mine is just locked In tube mode. I don't see ever selling this amp. Power and versatility to spare.


----------



## TooFrank

Shane D said:


> Mine is just locked In tube mode. I don't see ever selling this amp. Power and versatility to spare.


Thanks Shane D for "convincing" me into buying the ICan. It - off course - goes super nicely with my iDSD pro. Still experimenting with different settings and different headphones. But I think those two are keepers - have sold my other amp.


----------



## Shane D

TooFrank said:


> Thanks Shane D for "convincing" me into buying the ICan. It - off course - goes super nicely with my iDSD pro. Still experimenting with different settings and different headphones. But I think those two are keepers - have sold my other amp.


It is quite the amp. I am currently trying to slim down my headphone collection. After that I think I want to get rid of one amp. I am currently running three and the Pro iCAN isn't going anywhere.

Like you, I am still learning. For instance bass boost doesn't always need to be maxed. 
And 3D can be even better in moderation.
Of my top six headphones, three prefer the iFi.


----------



## squeakez

I feel the same as Shane D. The Pro iCan and iDSD are end game for me. Their versatility is unmatched. My audio goal is to find headphones that play well with the iFi system. If I can't find the right combination of adjustments to make a headphone sound great, then I won't be keeping that headphone (looking at the ZMF VC). 

My favorites right now are the Sundaras and the DT700 Pro X on tube mode. I just finished demoing some Ultrasone Edition 8s that were fantastic on Solid State mode (thanks to @TWerk for the loan).


----------



## alekc

Shane D said:


> Mine is just locked In tube mode. I don't see ever selling this amp. Power and versatility to spare.


This is actually an interesting story: I've got Pro iCan due to great experience with micro iCan SE + micro iTube2. Removal of micro iTube2 from the rig after some time has been quite a surprise for me: while almost everyone agreed that this tube buffer adds very little to the sound signature, one can really appreciate it when you miss this little addition after longer period of time.  With Pro iCan this is a different story in my case: I rarely use tube modes and I found myself - quite surprising - I am almost exclusively using it in SS mode. Guess I like its signature so much I don't need addition bit of tube goodness. 

Indeed the versatility of an amp is great, as long as you are limiting yourself to using it exclusively as headamp or preamp. It is a pity you can't use it simultaneously. This is a huge drawback for me. 

The 3D and xbass can be great but are very track and cans dependant. Maxing any of those does not always brings best experience from my experiments. Unfortunately when engaging any of those functions I have a feeling sound slows down and dynamics is somehow lost.


----------



## zolom (Nov 23, 2021)

Great pairing with the Chord Hugo2.
Waiting for the iFi Zen Stream to replace my RPI+JustBoom streamer (red box).


----------



## iFi audio

TooFrank said:


> Thanks Shane D for "convincing" me into buying the ICan. It - off course - goes super nicely with my iDSD pro.



Yes, it does 



alekc said:


> while almost everyone agreed that this tube buffer adds very little to the sound signature, one can really appreciate it when you miss this little addition after longer period of time.



Agreed on that. We don't notice things until they're gone and the more gets used to certain sonic features, the more their lack becomes noticeable. On this count tube input is quite special.



alekc said:


> The 3D and xbass can be great but are very track and cans dependant.



That's true, these utilities aren't always needed, but can be highly beneficial for cans that sound thin or too narrow/intimate.


----------



## iFi audio

zolom said:


> Great pairing with the Chord Hugo2.
> Waiting for the iFi Zen Stream to replace my RPI+JustBoom streamer (red box).



A very nice rig btw. Just a suggestion, but at some point you might consider replacing your power bar and quite possibly squeeze extra performance from all connected components. They deserve it


----------



## zolom

iFi audio said:


> A very nice rig btw. Just a suggestion, but at some point you might consider replacing your power bar and quite possibly squeeze extra performance from all connected components. They deserve it


Not quite familiar with that power  bar improvement you are talking about. Can you reffer me there? 

Thanks


----------



## alekc

zolom said:


> Not quite familiar with that power  bar improvement you are talking about. Can you reffer me there?
> 
> Thanks


Considering Hugo 2 can be run from batteries, I'd rather experiment with switching from iPower to iPower Elite for Pro iCan. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## alekc

I have a great contender to replace Pro iCan in my desktop headphone setup. Just like ifi has a brilliant house sound, adding a unique bit of magic and musicality. Plays amazing with R2R and Delta Sigma dacs and maybe it is not as powerful on paper as Pro iCan you can throw at it most cans anyway. I'll tell more after spending more time with it - so for now it is hidden in shadow  

And yes, in my book it can compete with Tube/Tube+ mode too.


----------



## Shane D (Nov 23, 2021)

alekc said:


> This is actually an interesting story: I've got Pro iCan due to great experience with micro iCan SE + micro iTube2. Removal of micro iTube2 from the rig after some time has been quite a surprise for me: while almost everyone agreed that this tube buffer adds very little to the sound signature, one can really appreciate it when you miss this little addition after longer period of time.  With Pro iCan this is a different story in my case: I rarely use tube modes and I found myself - quite surprising - I am almost exclusively using it in SS mode. Guess I like its signature so much I don't need addition bit of tube goodness.
> 
> Indeed the versatility of an amp is great, as long as you are limiting yourself to using it exclusively as headamp or preamp. It is a pity you can't use it simultaneously. This is a huge drawback for me.
> 
> The 3D and xbass can be great but are very track and cans dependant. Maxing any of those does not always brings best experience from my experiments. Unfortunately when engaging any of those functions I have a feeling sound slows down and dynamics is somehow lost.


I also first hopped on the iFi train with the Micro iCAN SE. The sound was good and the power was great, but bass boost and 3D really stuck in my brain. I looked for a more standard iFi amp but never really found one until the Pro iCAN and that was Way too expensive for me.

Flash forward a year or two and I come across this used unit...


----------



## TooFrank

Shane D said:


> It is quite the amp. I am currently trying to slim down my headphone collection. After that I think I want to get rid of one amp. I am currently running three and the Pro iCAN isn't going anywhere.
> 
> Like you, I am still learning. For instance bass boost doesn't always need to be maxed.
> And 3D can be even better in moderation.
> Of my top six headphones, three prefer the iFi.


So which prefer the ICan and which don't? To me, all my headphones (Grado HF3, Hemps, GH2, GS2Ke, Stellia's, Arya vs 2 and now the HD650) seem to like this setup


----------



## Shane D

TooFrank said:


> So which prefer the ICan and which don't? To me, all my headphones (Grado HF3, Hemps, GH2, GS2Ke, Stellia's, Arya vs 2 and now the HD650) seem to like this setup


Man, you are really into Grado!
 

Now that I am finished buying for a while (he said with no sense of authority at all), the line-up currently sits at (there is overlap):

The iFi is AMAZING with the HiFiman HE6se V2's, T60 Argon's and LSA HP-2's.

The Grado's, of course, like the bass boost of the iFi, as do the LSA HP-2's, but they both sound so sweet out of the Violectric V220. As do the CFA Cascades and Beyer T5's.

My LP is a near perfect match with my Focal Elex's and the HD660's.

1) My LP is probably my least valuable amp.

2) The Violectric has a such a full, warm sound. It is like hanging out with your cat or dog on your lap.

The Pro iCAN is irreplaceable at this point. The only downside is the wobbly 1/4" output in the front. While I do use the HAC system, my Grado's are hardwired and I hate the wobbly  connection, but maybe that is just my machine.


----------



## TooFrank

Shane D said:


> Man, you are really into Grado!
> 
> 
> Now that I am finished buying for a while (he said with no sense of authority at all), the line-up currently sits at (there is overlap):
> ...


Thanks As we have mentioned before, I am more onto HPs, whereas you try out the amps FWIW on my ICan the 6.3 mm output doesn't appear wobbly. There are 2 of them and both seem good (to me)


----------



## Shane D

TooFrank said:


> Thanks As we have mentioned before, I am more onto HPs, whereas you try out the amps FWIW on my ICan the 6.3 mm output doesn't appear wobbly. There are 2 of them and both seem good (to me)


Oh, I am done with amps and DAC's. I use the output on the right and the 1/4" does not click in place. Does yours? 
Mine fits in snuggly, but if you brush your hand against the cable changing volume, it will wobble.


----------



## iFi audio

zolom said:


> Not quite familiar with that power bar improvement you are talking about. Can you reffer me there?



From you photo I gather that all your setup's components connect to a white regular power strip that most likely is bottlenecking its performance. Considering how critical power is in general in audio, please feel free to look at power bars/conditioners designed specifically for it. We even have our own (with in-built AC iPurifier) here:  https://ifi-audio.com/products/powerstation/

Such products are universal one-time expenses that can make a significant difference especially for digital devices. Non-Signature Pro iDSD and Pro iCAN also perform a level higher if powered by iPower Elite instead of their stock PSUs.


----------



## TooFrank

Shane D said:


> Oh, I am done with amps and DAC's. I use the output on the right and the 1/4" does not click in place. Does yours?
> Mine fits in snuggly, but if you brush your hand against the cable changing volume, it will wobble.


I think mine is clicking in place, although there is a bit "looseness" when pulling a bit back. But to me it seems to work fine. How about the left 6.3 is that the same? I read somewhere, that if you're only using one HP, you should use the right. Haven't tested systematically, but I left and 6.3 to 3.5 mm adaptor in the right and then use the left. Right now I have plugged in several HPs to compare - I am happy


----------



## Shane D

TooFrank said:


> I think mine is clicking in place, although there is a bit "looseness" when pulling a bit back. But to me it seems to work fine. How about the left 6.3 is that the same? I read somewhere, that if you're only using one HP, you should use the right. Haven't tested systematically, but I left and 6.3 to 3.5 mm adaptor in the right and then use the left. Right now I have plugged in several HPs to compare - I am happy


My left is the same as the right. Not a huge thing and only affects fixed wire units. And for me that is just the Grado's.

I switched up to the Grado's today via the Violectric. Tomorrow I will go back and forth with the iFi and compare. As I remember, they do love the bass boost. To be fair, I will run the Vio through the Loki and then compare apples to apples.


----------



## SlothRock

Anyone using this amp with ZMF Verite Closed and loving it or is it not a great fit there?


----------



## Louisiana

SlothRock said:


> Anyone using this amp with ZMF Verite Closed and loving it or is it not a great fit there?


Yes!
 For me, this is my personal Audio Nivana


----------



## robo24

SlothRock said:


> Anyone using this amp with ZMF Verite Closed and loving it or is it not a great fit there?


I loved it when I still had the iCAN. Definitely swap the tube with the WE 396A. I mostly used tube modes but even the SS mode is excellent with all the ZMFs. I moved on (and spent way more) but I think it's an amazing all in one solution.


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone has Pro iCan Signature? I am wondering if the gold emblem at the middle is detachable or magnetic? Ifi seems to forgot including one in my unit.


----------



## talmadge

It has an adhesive back. Contact ifi or your dealer and they will send you one.


----------



## BattousaiX26

talmadge said:


> It has an adhesive back. Contact ifi or your dealer and they will send you one.


Thanks, already contacted my dealer and he said that he will ask ifi for one.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Are you enjoying the Signature, @BattousaiX26?


----------



## BattousaiX26

ToddRaymond said:


> Are you enjoying the Signature, @BattousaiX26?


So far yes. I am still in the process of brain adjustment or signature burn in but I am liking what I am hearing so far. I was suppose to buy the original pro ican but end up getting the burson soloist 3x because of the sterile sound in the original pro ican. Then I sold the burson soloist to get the signature. The signature does not have that treble edginess which is very good for a treble sensitive person like me.


----------



## iFi audio

BattousaiX26 said:


> So far yes. I am still in the process of brain adjustment or signature burn in but I am liking what I am hearing so far. I was suppose to buy the original pro ican but end up getting the burson soloist 3x because of the sterile sound in the original pro ican. Then I sold the burson soloist to get the signature. The signature does not have that treble edginess which is very good for a treble sensitive person like me.



That's probably the first time I'm reading about Pro iCAN's sterille sound and since its launch we got a ton of feedbcak that it's anything but 
It's also great to read that you like Pro iCAN Signature, enjoy!


----------



## robo24

iFi audio said:


> That's probably the first time I'm reading about Pro iCAN's sterille sound and since its launch we got a ton of feedbcak that it's anything but
> It's also great to read that you like Pro iCAN Signature, enjoy!


For me it was the opposite of sterile. Sterile was my THX 789. The iCan was warmer, much more full, deeper bass, but we all hear things differently.


----------



## Shane D

iFi audio said:


> That's probably the first time I'm reading about Pro iCAN's sterille sound and since its launch we got a ton of feedbcak that it's anything but
> It's also great to read that you like Pro iCAN Signature, enjoy!


Since you're here, can I ask you a question?
Is bass boost implemented the same across all iFi products or is it different on different models?

Thanks.


----------



## BattousaiX26

iFi audio said:


> That's probably the first time I'm reading about Pro iCAN's sterille sound and since its launch we got a ton of feedbcak that it's anything but
> It's also great to read that you like Pro iCAN Signature, enjoy!


Maybe it is the DAC when I demo it back in the day and I can't remember what DAC was paired with the pro ican but yeah that was my impression when I heard it.

Yup really like the signature and planning to get idsd signature, supanova and micro iusb to finish my source


----------



## BattousaiX26

robo24 said:


> For me it was the opposite of sterile. Sterile was my THX 789. The iCan was warmer, much more full, deeper bass, but we all hear things differently.


I am used to tube sound before going solid state so yeah


----------



## TooFrank

Question: I now own both the iDSD and the ICan. Thought about using a daisy chain from the idsd to the ican to spare (power) space on the floor. Do you see any challenges with this sound wise?


----------



## AudioMoksha

I was considering this (signature) for an upgrade. The lack of not being able to switch preamp mode off when listening to headphones is an issue. I have a desktop setup with my monitors always connected to the amp. How do people work around this, can't keep removing my monitor cables, both are powered seperate.


----------



## BattousaiX26

AudioMoksha said:


> I was considering this (signature) for an upgrade. The lack of not being able to switch preamp mode off when listening to headphones is an issue. I have a desktop setup with my monitors always connected to the amp. How do people work around this, can't keep removing my monitor cables, both are powered seperate.


For me, I just turned the speaker into mute mode.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 7, 2022)

Had to do some running around this morning. Got back a bit ago and turned on my iCAN/HE6se V2 combo. As I browse my collection, alphabetically (great way to check out stuff not played often), I bumped into REM today.
I have commented previously that mid gain is sufficient with these headphones and volume hovering around 11:00. Today it seemed just too quiet for me and I had to adjust the volume up to 1:00 and could have gone farther. I wondered if my ears were plugged and I was listening too loud. I pulled out my decible meter and sure enough 99+ % of the music was under 70Db's. And the peaks were like 70.3/70.4/70.5.
I decided to try high gain, but then I had to drop the volume below 10:00. Closer to 9:30. Now volume is peaking between 70.5 and 72db's. This feels more comfortable, but this is older music. Think mid-80's to early 2000's.

First major correction I had to do all week with this set-up. Don't know if it is me or the music or the hardware. Just wanted to make a note of this.
What I love about these threads is that you can use them like a journal. You can go back a year or two later and check what was going on with your gear back then.

Just an FYI, I have the 3D and bass maxed with these.


----------



## Shane D

Trivia test: If I use the pre-outs to power a small tube amp, can I then  control the volume on the tube amp with the iFi?

Thanks!


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Shane D said:


> Trivia test: If I use the pre-outs to power a small tube amp, can I then  control the volume on the tube amp with the iFi?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes you can.


----------



## Shane D

Nicolas Yance said:


> Yes you can.


How would you do it? Just plug in the XLR's and it is automatically in variable mode?


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Shane D said:


> How would you do it? Just plug in the XLR's and it is automatically in variable mode?


Yes, it's plug and play. You just need to set the volume knob on your other amp. I've done it a couple of times with my pro iCan to my WA5.


----------



## iFi audio

Nicolas Yance said:


> Yes, it's plug and play. You just need to set the volume knob on your other amp. I've done it a couple of times with my pro iCan to my WA5.



Yes, that's correct, our manual covers that subject (page 9, point 15): https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Pro_iDSD_Manual.pdf



Shane D said:


> Is bass boost implemented the same across all iFi products or is it different on different models?



That question of yours somehow went undetected, so let me address it now. Our bass boost is based on the same concept (fully analog and discrete matrix), but adjusted to our specific products and their internal circuitry.



TooFrank said:


> Question: I now own both the iDSD and the ICan. Thought about using a daisy chain from the idsd to the ican to spare (power) space on the floor. Do you see any challenges with this sound wise?



Do you mean several cables in-between both products?


----------



## Shane D

iFi audio said:


> Yes, that's correct, our manual covers that subject (page 9, point 15): https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Pro_iDSD_Manual.pdf


But, I was referring to the Pro iCAN. There is no switch for fixed/variable on the amp.


----------



## TooFrank

iFi audio said:


> Yes, that's correct, our manual covers that subject (page 9, point 15): https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Pro_iDSD_Manual.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant just connecting the power between the iDSD (originally power fed) and the ICAN (daisy from the iDSD)


----------



## hamachan

Shane D said:


> But, I was referring to the Pro iCAN. There is no switch for fixed/variable on the amp.


Pro iCAN does not have fixed output.  When I use it as pre-amp to feed the output to the pre-main amp for speakers, I usually set the volume knob of pro iCAN maximum and the sound power level from the speakers is controlled by the pre-main amp.  It is depending on your system, though.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 21, 2022)

hamachan said:


> Pro iCAN does not have fixed output.  When I use it as pre-amp to feed the output to the pre-main amp for speakers, I usually set the volume knob of pro iCAN maximum and the sound power level from the speakers is controlled by the pre-main amp.  It is depending on your system, though.


Might work then. If I buy the Iittle fella, I will try it out.

Thanks!


----------



## zolom (Jan 21, 2022)

On my 2nd hand iFi Pro iCAN,  got a 2.5mm balanced connector connected via balanced cable to two 3 pin xlrs.
It does not seem to work.  Connected to a balanced dac (set to line out level)  or connected to hugo2 (set to line level)  via 3.5/2.5 adapter,   I can hear very very  low level sound when setting the input switch to Balanced.  Strange,  but I get the same levrl of very low audio when switching the input switch to any of other of the rca settings.

RCA inputs work perfectly.

Please advice.


----------



## Shane D

zolom said:


> On my 2nd hand iFi Pro iCAN,  got a 2.5mm balanced connector connected via balanced cable to two 3 pin xlrs.
> It does not seem to work.  Connected to a balanced dac (set to line out level)  or connected to hugo2 (set to line level)  via 3.5/2.5 adapter,   I can hear very very  low level sound when setting the input switch to Balanced.  Strange,  but I get the same levrl of very low audio when switching the input switch to any of other of the rca settings.
> 
> RCA inputs work perfectly.
> ...


I am a little confused by your description. So, are your headphone inputs 2.5mm at the cup? And do they end in 3-pin XLR's?

As far as your DAC to amp wiring it is just XLR (or a balanced adapter for a 4.4mm or 2.5mm possibly?) or RCA from one to the other normally.
I don't understand the Line Out references. Are you using one as a pre-amp?


----------



## zolom

The problem is simple.  I connect balanced  analog input to the XLR inputs which does not seem to work.
I use two 3pin xlrs fed by 2.5mm balanced connector and cable.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

zolom said:


> The problem is simple.  I connect balanced  analog input to the XLR inputs which does not seem to work.
> I use two 3pin xlrs fed by 2.5mm balanced connector and cable.


Sounds like the wiring is not compatible with what you are trying to do, and the small amount of sound you are getting out is a symptom of that. This kind of thing can happen in stereos when the common wire is open. You might have better luck asking iFi directly.


----------



## zolom

Thanks


----------



## Shane D

zolom said:


> The problem is simple.  I connect balanced  analog input to the XLR inputs which does not seem to work.
> I use two 3pin xlrs fed by 2.5mm balanced connector and cable.


So, the headphone cable sounds like it is fine. It must be a matter of cabling between the DAC and the amp then. The suggestion of contacting iFi is a great idea. I have dealt with their reps and they were very helpful.


----------



## Glokta

zolom said:


> On my 2nd hand iFi Pro iCAN,  got a 2.5mm balanced connector connected via balanced cable to two 3 pin xlrs.
> It does not seem to work.  Connected to a balanced dac (set to line out level)  or connected to hugo2 (set to line level)  via 3.5/2.5 adapter,   I can hear very very  low level sound when setting the input switch to Balanced.  Strange,  but I get the same levrl of very low audio when switching the input switch to any of other of the rca settings.
> 
> RCA inputs work perfectly.
> ...


It seems that 2.5 mm output that you are using has an extremely low voltage. May I ask what's the source that you're using with that particular output?


----------



## zolom (Jan 23, 2022)

Thanks

Source:  mojo set to line out via a 3.5 msle to 2.5 female adapter. Including the cable shown above (male 2.5mm to two 3pin xlrs) .


----------



## makan

zolom said:


> Thanks
> 
> Source:  mojo set to line out via a 3.5 msle to 2.5 female adapter. Including the cable shown above (male 2.5mm to two 3pin xlrs) .


I don’t think you can go from single ended 3.5mm out from the mojo to balanced wiring. You can only go from balanced with an adapter to single ended. I think that is your problem. You need a balanced source to go to a balanced amp.


----------



## Glokta

zolom said:


> Thanks
> 
> Source:  mojo set to line out via a 3.5 msle to 2.5 female adapter. Including the cable shown above (male 2.5mm to two 3pin xlrs) .


You've got a frankenoutput over there 
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, you need proper RCA (2V<) or XLR (4V<) outputs.
If you like the Chord sound go up the line, or you can buy one of the fine DACs available today, there's a plethora of them for every pocket.
Remember that if you buy one with only RCA outputs, that's just half the power of what iCan Pro can do.


----------



## zolom (Jan 24, 2022)

Thank you very much.
In fact I have the Hugo 2 feeding my iCAN via good RCA cables,  with great SQ.  I did buy the 2.5mm to 3pin XLRs in order to experiment with the possibility to utilize DAC/AMP balanced out as an input into the iCAN's balanced input. I own several of these sources (earman sparrow,  es100, qudelix). Following beeing unsuccesful,  I did try it with the Mojo with no success as explained above.

Thanks again.


----------



## DeweyCH

New to this amp (later this week), and I was wondering if somewhere in the 134 pages here was a good breakdown of the pros/cons of the various balanced outputs on the front? IE, is there any actual added value in using twin 3-pin XLR or twin 1/4" vs. a 4-pin XLR?


----------



## Shane D

DeweyCH said:


> New to this amp (later this week), and I was wondering if somewhere in the 134 pages here was a good breakdown of the pros/cons of the various balanced outputs on the front? IE, is there any actual added value in using twin 3-pin XLR or twin 1/4" vs. a 4-pin XLR?


I don't think so. But most people don't have dual three pin XLR's. I thought about buying that connector from Hart, but the four pin is working just fine and every thing sounds great.

With Hart I have two 1/4", two 4-pin and one 4.4mm. I am stopping there.


----------



## GoKart

I'm considering an iCan Pro. Does anyone know how it's current output compares to an iHA-6?


----------



## Shane D

GoKart said:


> I'm considering an iCan Pro. Does anyone know how it's current output compares to an iHA-6?


Are you asking about the power output? If so, the only iFi info is 14 watts at 16 Ohms. Nothing above that.

I have no idea on the Cayin. product, but it should be easy to find.


----------



## Ross Kyle

Shane D said:


> Are you asking about the power output? If so, the only iFi info is 14 watts at 16 Ohms. Nothing above that.
> 
> I have no idea on the Cayin. product, but it should be easy to find.


they’re asking for the current delivered I think , amperage from what i’ve heard about it and when i heard it the IHa6 is super grainy


----------



## iFi audio

GoKart said:


> I'm considering an iCan Pro. Does anyone know how it's current output compares to an iHA-6?



Our specs list only output power and voltage as per this site (specs on the bottom):

https://ifi-audio.com/products/pro-ican-signature/

Thanks!


----------



## DeweyCH

Mine arrived today. I'm shocked at how small it is. Looking forward to getting it hooked up and playing.


----------



## iFi audio

DeweyCH said:


> Mine arrived today. I'm shocked at how small it is. Looking forward to getting it hooked up and playing.



Yes, it's small though very capable, or at least we think it is (OK, some folks around these parts would also agree) 

Enjoy please and let us know what you think!


----------



## DeweyCH

iFi audio said:


> Yes, it's small though very capable, or at least we think it is (OK, some folks around these parts would also agree)
> 
> Enjoy please and let us know what you think!


So far it's doing a really nice job driving the Susvaras. Just switched it over to tube mode for the first time. Excellent clarity, solid bass, and the soundstage is quite nice. I also am actually using the Xbass.


----------



## Shane D

DeweyCH said:


> So far it's doing a really nice job driving the Susvaras. Just switched it over to tube mode for the first time. Excellent clarity, solid bass, and the soundstage is quite nice. I also am actually using the Xbass.


Nice to hear about the Susvara's. Curious about those Kennertons.


----------



## Ross Kyle

DeweyCH said:


> So far it's doing a really nice job driving the Susvaras. Just switched it over to tube mode for the first time. Excellent clarity, solid bass, and the soundstage is quite nice. I also am actually using the Xbass.


found them to hold their one. too just a bit though soft occasionally on transients , i do like first xbass setting on even using it as ore in speaker amp


----------



## DeweyCH

Shane D said:


> Nice to hear about the Susvara's. Curious about those Kennertons.


Hate to say it but the Kennertons moved on to a new owner this afternoon. Liked them a ton, but they didn't seem to scale like the VCs, and I had to move some stuff out to make room for the "final" (ha, yeah right...) setup.


----------



## EMINENT (Feb 3, 2022)

Deleted.... as I read the whole thread and found the answer.


----------



## DeweyCH

This amp is great. Got soundstage out of my Aeolus I didn't know it was capable of producing, and it's doing a great job with the Susvara. I've been listening mostly in Tube mode, will have to try out Tube+ later. Mid-gain seems to be about right for all of my cans (either 300 ohm ZMFs or power-starved Sus), with one step of Xbass turned on. Also really appreciate the footprint - it stacks on my Schiit quite nicely!






Skimming back through the thread, is it reasonable to say that from a tube-rolling perspective it's Western Electric 396a or GE 5670 5-star as the main tube rolling upgrade paths?


----------



## Shane D

DeweyCH said:


> This amp is great. Got soundstage out of my Aeolus I didn't know it was capable of producing, and it's doing a great job with the Susvara. I've been listening mostly in Tube mode, will have to try out Tube+ later. Mid-gain seems to be about right for all of my cans (either 300 ohm ZMFs or power-starved Sus), with one step of Xbass turned on. Also really appreciate the footprint - it stacks on my Schiit quite nicely!
> 
> 
> 
> Skimming back through the thread, is it reasonable to say that from a tube-rolling perspective it's Western Electric 396a or GE 5670 5-star as the main tube rolling upgrade paths?


That seems to be the case, but the amp already comes with 5670's, so I am aiming towards WE396a's


----------



## Glokta

DeweyCH said:


> This amp is great. Got soundstage out of my Aeolus I didn't know it was capable of producing, and it's doing a great job with the Susvara. I've been listening mostly in Tube mode, will have to try out Tube+ later. Mid-gain seems to be about right for all of my cans (either 300 ohm ZMFs or power-starved Sus), with one step of Xbass turned on. Also really appreciate the footprint - it stacks on my Schiit quite nicely!
> 
> 
> 
> Skimming back through the thread, is it reasonable to say that from a tube-rolling perspective it's Western Electric 396a or GE 5670 5-star as the main tube rolling upgrade paths?



The advantages of having an external power supply.
XBass - can't go back once you've heard it 
This little thing gets even better with the iPower Elite. (if you don't already have it)


----------



## DeweyCH

Glokta said:


> The advantages of having an external power supply.
> XBass - can't go back once you've heard it
> This little thing gets even better with the iPower Elite. (if you don't already have it)


I know there's answers to this elsewhere in the thread, but would you mind giving me a quick impression of the differences you've heard going to the iPower Elite?


----------



## DeweyCH

Also does this need the 15v or 5v Elite?


----------



## Glokta

It needs the 15V version.
To answer your question about differences - from what I remember, a blacker background, dynamics improved and it added a bit of punch to the menu, the most notable difference was on the SE output.


----------



## pankar0

It's been a long long night.....
New puppies at home..!!


----------



## zolom (Feb 9, 2022)

Deleted.


----------



## DeweyCH

Hmm, I just realized that if I really want to drive something from speaker taps (HE6SE, Sus), I can use this as a pre. Fab! Gonna relocate my Luxman receiver tomorrow and play with that.


----------



## Benno1988

Anyone with a iCan Pro in Australia want to sell theirs? Hit me up!


----------



## pankar0 (Feb 22, 2022)

Hello guys, I have a few questions..

After one week with the pro ican signature I notice a noise from the 4pin xlr output when the music stops/ pause.. especially in middle and high gain.. and with the volume knob above the one o clock.
So no dead silent background.
Can someone check his amp to tell if this happens..
Also the same but with different sounds over the 6.3 left output.
The only output that I don't here any noise is the 4.4 ...
Another thing that I don't understand is the difference between 4pin xlr and 4.4 output about the volume gain...why the 4pin xlr is louder..??
These two outputs are balanced they should not have the same intensity ..??
Where am I wrong..??


----------



## Shane D

pankar0 said:


> Hello guys, I have a few questions..
> 
> After one week with the pro ican signature I notice a noise from the 4pin xlr output when the music stops/ pause.. especially in middle and high gain.. and with the volume knob above the one o clock.
> So no dead silent background.
> ...


I have the older model (pre-Signature) and it is flat quiet out of 4-pin XLR and 1/4". Only use mid-gain for T60 Argon's and Hifiman HE6se V2's, but used them last week. I very rarely go past 1:00 though. If you bought it locally, could you take it back and compare it with other models?


----------



## Benno1988

pankar0 said:


> Hello guys, I have a few questions..
> 
> After one week with the pro ican signature I notice a noise from the 4pin xlr output when the music stops/ pause.. especially in middle and high gain.. and with the volume knob above the one o clock.
> So no dead silent background.
> ...


The 4.4 probably has different gain to the XLR, given its more likely to be driving IEMs or portable/sensitive cans.


----------



## lafeuill

The 4.4mm output on the Pro iCan Signature has IEMatch implemented, which explains the attenuation and absence of noisefloor.

XLR output is 'direct'. On my Pro iCan, A8000 inears plugged in the XLR output via an adapter, 0dB gain, perfect silence even at max volume.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Short (but for me important) question, please. Is the output power from the 3-pin XLR ports (on the back) the same as iCan's power delivery from the balanced headphone port in front? 

I couldn't find any information about that. The idea is to use my ab-1266tc on the preamp output (similar to what many people do with the Hugo2TT) but this of course only makes more sense if the power delivery is different. 

Thanks!


----------



## EMINENT

My Pro iCan Signature is up for sale in the classy ads. Who's ready for some solid tube action?


----------



## Ross Kyle

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Short (but for me important) question, please. Is the output power from the 3-pin XLR ports (on the back) the same as iCan's power delivery from the balanced headphone port in front?
> 
> I couldn't find any information about that. The idea is to use my ab-1266tc on the preamp output (similar to what many people do with the Hugo2TT) but this of course only makes more sense if the power delivery is different.
> 
> Thanks!


Not 100% sure but i’m pretty certain even if it were you’d lose any benefit of protection circuits which imo are pretty amazing on the ican , i’d test if i had a double female 3pin xlr to female xlr adapter


----------



## Glokta

EMINENT said:


> My Pro iCan Signature is up for sale in the classy ads. Who's ready for some solid tube action?



Spring cleaning time for amps? 
What are you getting instead?


----------



## EMINENT (Mar 23, 2022)

Glokta said:


> Spring cleaning time for amps?
> What are you getting instead?



Wasn't getting much interest on the mini so I thought i'd put both mini and iCan Sig up for sale and keep whichever doesn't sell.
They're both pretty fasntastic and could live with either one.


----------



## Spedinfargo

If a guy gets the iPower Elite (15v as mentioned earlier in the thread) and connects it to the iDSD Pro first, where do you get the "daisy chain" cable that goes from the output of the iDSD Pro to the iCAN Pro?  In the picture on Amazon, it doesn't look like it comes with that cable by default...


----------



## Ross Kyle

Spedinfargo said:


> If a guy gets the iPower Elite (15v as mentioned earlier in the thread) and connects it to the iDSD Pro first, where do you get the "daisy chain" cable that goes from the output of the iDSD Pro to the iCAN Pro?  In the picture on Amazon, it doesn't look like it comes with that cable by default...


It does not come with one , I resorted to amazon for small like 30cm - DC to DC cable as long as its 2.2x 5.5 mm


----------



## Spedinfargo

Ross Kyle said:


> It does not come with one , I resorted to amazon for small like 30cm - DC to DC cable as long as its 2.2x 5.5 mm


Cool - thanks for the quick response.  Any generic (but quality) will work then.  Are you still liking your iPower Elite?  General rule of thumb is iPower > iDSD Pro > iCAN Pro, correct?


----------



## Ross Kyle

Spedinfargo said:


> Cool - thanks for the quick response.  Any generic (but quality) will work then.  Are you still liking your iPower Elite?  General rule of thumb is iPower > iDSD Pro > iCAN Pro, correct?


mine was cheap not really sure what a higher quality wore would do in that scenario out with it meeting specs , i had my first elite into my idsd then had ican chained yeah , then i recently got a second for ican too noticing a bit of an improvement  but more piece of mind haha for myself


----------



## Sebastien Chiu

Spedinfargo said:


> If a guy gets the iPower Elite (15v as mentioned earlier in the thread) and connects it to the iDSD Pro first, where do you get the "daisy chain" cable that goes from the output of the iDSD Pro to the iCAN Pro?  In the picture on Amazon, it doesn't look like it comes with that cable by default...



That's because we don't normally reccomend folks daisy chain, even though you can.



Spedinfargo said:


> Cool - thanks for the quick response.  Any generic (but quality) will work then.  Are you still liking your iPower Elite?  General rule of thumb is iPower > iDSD Pro > iCAN Pro, correct?



Yes, that is correct for the general rule of thumb, however. 



Ross Kyle said:


> mine was cheap not really sure what a higher quality wore would do in that scenario out with it meeting specs , i had my first elite into my idsd then had ican chained yeah , then i recently got a second for ican too noticing a bit of an improvement  but more piece of mind haha for myself



What kind of improvements did you notice on your end? Thanks for picking a second one up!


----------



## Ross Kyle

Sebastien Chiu said:


> That's because we don't normally reccomend folks daisy chain, even though you can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A tad more clearness more in the super micro detail , not always noticeable but rather have the better power supply from iFi plus they are so pretty haha and well made


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 5, 2022)

—Deleted double post—


----------



## dcguy73 (Apr 5, 2022)

Spedinfargo said:


> Cool - thanks for the quick response.  Any generic (but quality) will work then.  Are you still liking your iPower Elite?  General rule of thumb is iPower > iDSD Pro > iCAN Pro, correct?


Just be careful both units are turned off and disconnected from power before you daisy chain them or else — sparky spark! Not fun. That was unnerving enough to convince me to power each unit separately.


----------



## iFi audio

Ross Kyle said:


> A tad more clearness more in the super micro detail , not always noticeable but rather have the better power supply from iFi plus they are so pretty haha and well made



Thanks, these PSUs are built like tanks indeed! After several weeks you can unplug one and then see what happens. The odds are that all fairly small differences will grow a fair bit


----------



## TooFrank

Spedinfargo said:


> If a guy gets the iPower Elite (15v as mentioned earlier in the thread) and connects it to the iDSD Pro first, where do you get the "daisy chain" cable that goes from the output of the iDSD Pro to the iCAN Pro?  In the picture on Amazon, it doesn't look like it comes with that cable by default...


try this https://www.thomann.de/gb/ebs_ebs_dc2_90f_flat_daisy_chain.htm


----------



## DavidWhite (Apr 30, 2022)

I replaced the Pro iCan's stock power by newly purchased iPower Elite. Unfortunately, the iPower Elite introduced background noise. This was how I tested the background noise: used 18db gain in iCan and turned volume to max (DAC was off), I could hear lots of noise introduced (the higher volume, the higher noise I heard).  When I switch the Elite power adapter back to the stock one, my iCan became dead quite again.   I think there are two possibilities here:  Elite introduces noises due to Active noise cancelling mechanism (need to create negative phase noise to cancel positive phase noise) and/or  due to that my power circuit does not have Ground. I don't have a ground from our power outlet: I use a 2-prong to 3-prong socket adapter to power my system.    Anyway, Elite does not work in my case unfortunately.


----------



## Benno1988

Users. Can someone confirm the Tube modes effect the preamp outputs too?


----------



## Ross Kyle

Benno1988 said:


> Users. Can someone confirm the Tube modes effect the preamp outputs too?


yea


----------



## BadBoy

DavidWhite said:


> I replaced the Pro iCan's stock power by newly purchased iPower Elite. Unfortunately, the iPower Elite introduced background noise. This was how I tested the background noise: used 18db gain in iCan and turned volume to max (DAC was off), I could hear lots of noise introduced (the higher volume, the higher noise floor).  When I switch the Elite power adapter back to the stock one, my iCan became dead quite again.   I think there are two possibilities here:  Elite introduces noises due to Active noise cancelling mechanism (need to create negative phase noise to cancel positive phase noise) and/or  due to that my power circuit does not have Ground. I don't have a ground from our power outlet: I use a 2-prong to 3-prong socket adapter to power my system.    Anyway, Elite does not work in my case unfortunately.


I am in the same situation. I am very confuse.


----------



## DavidWhite

BadBoy said:


> I am in the same situation. I am very confuse.


Thanks for confirmation. So we are not alone. This makes me wondering if it would be a bad idea for me to upgrade to the Pro iCan/iDSD signature versions in the future.


----------



## BadBoy

DavidWhite said:


> This makes me wondering if it would be a bad idea for me to upgrade to the Pro iCan/iDSD signature versions in the future.





DavidWhite said:


> Thanks for confirmation. So we are not alone. This makes me wondering if it would be a bad idea for me to upgrade to the Pro iCan/iDSD signature versions in the future.


What version of Pro iCan's stock power(without background noise) are you using? 
The version is written on the power body.
Mine is V1.1 (bouthgt in 2017.)


----------



## DavidWhite

BadBoy said:


> What version of Pro iCan's stock power(without background noise) are you using?
> The version is written on the power body.
> Mine is V1.1 (bouthgt in 2017.)


Mine is also V1.1.


----------



## CopperFox (May 23, 2022)

Soo, anyone else mod their Ican Pro?

While changing the tubes on mine I noticed there are six electrolytic capacitors seemingly in the signal path (the six caps circled with green here) meaning they likely have a significant effect on sound.






The four in the rear appear to be part of some kind of input buffer and the two closer to the front appear to be filter capacitors for the analog volume control, which is also in the signal path.

These six capacitors are Elna Silmic II caps, which is one of the capacitors models usually considered to be in the top three of currently produced electrolytic audio capacitors, the other two being the Nichicon KZ line and the Audio Note Kaisei.

Which of these is better than the others can be considered a matter of preference or personal taste.

For myself, looking at these caps in the signal path I realized that the things I'd want to change about the Ican Pro's sound are the same things that I don't like about the Elna Silmic II caps, which are familiar to me from previous experience with tube amp modding.

So I decided to replace those with Nichicon KZ caps which I've also used before and like the best of these myself.

The difference in sound between the Elna Silmic II and Nichicon KZ is that the Elnas have a more mid-forward sound with focus on midbass punch and crispness in lower treble. The Nichicon KZ is more of an U-shape sound with better sub-bass extension and more focus on higher treble. The soundstage presentation is also different.

So I replaced the four 16V 220uf Elnas in the rear with four 100V 220uf Nichicon KZ and the two 63V 47uf Elnas at the volume control with 100V 47uf Nichicon KZs.

(for the rear, the 100V voltage rating is what I already had lying on my shelf and for the volume control the 100V rating is closest they're available in to the stock 63V cap. The higher voltage ratings have somewhat better specs for high frequencies but can have more of a warm-up time after turning the amp on.)

Edit: !!! NOTE that these are polarized caps so you have to put the negative and positive terminals of the caps in the correct alignment or there will likely be damage.

The impact of this mod was quite exactly as I had hoped with better bass extension and the treble/soundstage also more to my preference. Before the mod I had been considering trying some other ss amp despite the Pro Ican's versatility, but now it is something I don't want to be without. Also the Tung-Sol tubes you see in the picture now sound like they should with their warmth and bassiness.

Note that any modding voids your product warranty and carries a risk of injury, property damage and/or bricking your product so do it only at your own risk.

(Mine didn't have warranty left as I bought it used from @vonBaron here.)

Here's another photo with the Nichicons installed in the rear (have also replaced the volume control filter caps but forgot to take pictures after that!)





Edit: The Nichicon KZ caps here are 100V 220uf, and in this 100V rating they are physically bigger and need to be mounted at an angle such as this. In their 25V 220uf rating they are not taller than the original Elna Silmic II 16V 220uf caps.


----------



## dcguy73

CopperFox said:


> Soo, anyone else mod their Ican Pro?
> 
> While changing the tubes on mine I noticed there are six electrolytic capacitors seemingly in the signal path (the six caps circled with green here) meaning they likely have a significant effect on sound.
> 
> ...



Genius! Why nobody's tried this before in 138 pages of thread is beyond me.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

dcguy73 said:


> Genius! Why nobody's tried this before in 138 pages of thread is beyond me.


Because having extended caps on a PCB will do more harm to the signal path than switching the caps will help. 

Keep in mind, copperfox does not have a diagram of the circuit. He is taking a huge risk, and is likely making no real positive change to the sound. Doing any sort of mod like this without using a O-Scope to verify results is pretty pointless IMO.


----------



## dcguy73 (May 23, 2022)

chargedcapacitor said:


> Because having extended caps on a PCB will do more harm to the signal path than switching the caps will help.
> 
> Keep in mind, copperfox does not have a diagram of the circuit. He is taking a huge risk, and is likely making no real positive change to the sound. Doing any sort of mod like this without using a O-Scope to verify results is pretty pointless IMO.


Ah, I see. So not genius!

*retreats back into the dark so as to not show my total lack of engineering skills*


----------



## CopperFox

chargedcapacitor said:


> Because having extended caps on a PCB will do more harm to the signal path than switching the caps will help.



If by "extended caps" you're referring to the size of my replacement caps, the 25V version of the KZ's are no taller than the 16V Silmic IIs. As stated, I used the much bigger 100V version firstly for the reason that they are what I had around.

The longer length of the angled capacitors' feet most likely adds roughly one milliohm of resistance per centimeter, which is here likely to be less total added resistance than the added resistance from the lower voltage models' higher tangent of loss angle (as per their specifications).

What is the harm that you're referring to here?


----------



## chargedcapacitor

CopperFox said:


> If by "extended caps" you're referring to the size of my replacement caps, the 25V version of the KZ's are no taller than the 16V Silmic IIs. As stated, I used the much bigger 100V version firstly for the reason that they are what I had around.
> 
> The longer length of the angled capacitors' feet most likely adds roughly one milliohm of resistance per centimeter, which is here likely to be less total added resistance than the added resistance from the lower voltage models' higher tangent of loss angle (as per their specifications).
> 
> What is the harm that you're referring to here?


I'm referring to interference due to the extended feet of the caps acting as antenna. Like I said, without using an oscilloscope it can be difficult to verify the integrity of your work.


----------



## CopperFox

chargedcapacitor said:


> I'm referring to interference due to the extended feet of the caps acting as antenna. Like I said, without using an oscilloscope it can be difficult to verify the integrity of your work.



Well, if EM interference would be seen as a problem here it is naturally possible to add preferred forms of insulation to the capacitor feet. But since their length here are short anyway it is not something I would be concerned of.

I haven't ever seen capacitor replacements with similar capacitance and intended functions described as a "huge risk" before (???), although this amp doesn't have the lowest component density so it is perhaps not the very easiest solder job because of that.

The possession of a full schematic is not extremely relevant for changing particular components with fairly similar ones. I know that professional designers of audio gear _experiment_ with various components in their products to achieve the best results despite having more knowledge of their products than a schematic could have. 

(Surprisingly, sometimes those designers may even respond to queries about advice on modding. But I didn't see a need for such query here.)


----------



## vonBaron

CopperFox said:


> Soo, anyone else mod their Ican Pro?
> 
> While changing the tubes on mine I noticed there are six electrolytic capacitors seemingly in the signal path (the six caps circled with green here) meaning they likely have a significant effect on sound.
> 
> ...


Nice to see it working! How volume control doing? Did you try to replace it too with better Alps?


----------



## CopperFox (May 25, 2022)

dcguy73 said:


> Genius! Why nobody's tried this before in 138 pages of thread is beyond me.



Well not really genius... mods that change relevant audio caps are relatively basic and commonplace. There are such mods for other amps on head-fi, for example the Monolith Liquid Platinum tube hybrid amp, where some of the stock caps are replaced with Elna Silmics and Nichicon KZs.

The Ican Pro already has good audio caps in it and as stated my changing them is for my own preferences. I want sub-bass and to me it looks like most of the summit-fi crowd does not prioritize that and is more inclined toward a mids-forward type of sound which is what the stock Ican Pro seems to be tuned for.


----------



## CopperFox

vonBaron said:


> Nice to see it working! How volume control doing? Did you try to replace it too with better Alps?



The volume control is working fine for me. I don't have experience or knowledge about the different analog volume control component models but I've seen from the DIY amp crowd that it is also something that people are interested in. Maybe I should try to find some threads or pages about the effects of different volume controls on sound.


----------



## Glokta

DavidWhite said:


> I replaced the Pro iCan's stock power by newly purchased iPower Elite. Unfortunately, the iPower Elite introduced background noise. This was how I tested the background noise: used 18db gain in iCan and turned volume to max (DAC was off), I could hear lots of noise introduced (the higher volume, the higher noise I heard).  When I switch the Elite power adapter back to the stock one, my iCan became dead quite again.   I think there are two possibilities here:  Elite introduces noises due to Active noise cancelling mechanism (need to create negative phase noise to cancel positive phase noise) and/or  due to that my power circuit does not have Ground. I don't have a ground from our power outlet: I use a 2-prong to 3-prong socket adapter to power my system.    Anyway, Elite does not work in my case unfortunately.



Is this happening only on the SE output or all of them?


----------



## Shane D

I got yet another set of closed backs and tried them on a few different amps.
The headphones are the pretty cheap (on sale), HiFiman HE-R9's.
They were very good on the Pro, but I wasn't totally sold. Then I realized that they are a bassy 'phone and I had the bass boost on. I turned off the bass boost and the 3D sound effects.
I had to adapt but now I am really liking these headphones on this amp. They have a very different sound. The opposite of crystal clear. Couldn't be your only 'phone, but a fun option for my collection, with this amp.

Think, putting on a clear set of headphones on a really tubey tube amp.


----------



## talmadge

_If anyone has an ican pro they will sell please let me know. _


----------



## TooFrank

Shane D said:


> I got yet another set of closed backs and tried them on a few different amps.
> The headphones are the pretty cheap (on sale), HiFiman HE-R9's.
> They were very good on the Pro, but I wasn't totally sold. Then I realized that they are a bassy 'phone and I had the bass boost on. I turned off the bass boost and the 3D sound effects.
> I had to adapt but now I am really liking these headphones on this amp. They have a very different sound. The opposite of crystal clear. Couldn't be your only 'phone, but a fun option for my collection, with this amp.
> ...


This is exactly why you would never sell the Pro - so versatile


----------



## alekc

Just found it and wanted to share with all other Pro iCan owners for a Sunday listening session: A great track pairing with Pro iCan in solid state mode and Focal Clears Mg: 



This album is also great in solid state mode:



Have fun!


----------



## Shane D (Jun 4, 2022)

TooFrank said:


> This is exactly why you would never sell the Pro - so versatile


I couldn't agree more. It is staying until it breaks and even then I might get it fixed. Tube sound, SS sound, bass boost sound, 3D sound combined with three different levels of gain. And I haven't even seriously approached the idea of changing the tubes. For a guy that is hooked on variety like me, it is the ultimate amp. The most expensive piece of headphone kit that I ever bought (and that was used!) and it is probably the best value with all that it can do.


----------



## ResidentAlien

Anybody tried pairing up the IFI Pro Ican or Ican signature to a Chord Qutest DAC?  How did it perform ?


----------



## alekc

ResidentAlien said:


> Anybody tried pairing up the IFI Pro Ican or Ican signature to a Chord Qutest DAC?  How did it perform ?


@ResidentAlien  I have tried both Mojo 1 and Hugo TT2 since I disliked Hugo 2 and Qutest and Dave sound signature. I guess it will be ok in solid state mode unless you like more transparent and / or dry sounding amp. In Tube and Tube+ mode you will have a bit of sweatness added but difference betwean those two modes can be hard to hear just like in case of Chord filter settings. The 3d and xbass is a lot more powerful than any of current Chord dacs settings IMHO. The drawback is that you are loosing some of Qutest transparency. With iPower Elite Pro iCan  background is really black and silent. Hope this helps.


----------



## talmadge (Jun 11, 2022)

Can an ican purchased from Europe be used in the USA with the proper plug / power supply? Does it have an outboard voltage switch ?


----------



## Shane D

Has anyone with an iFi Pro iCAN matched it up with an R70X?
Just curious.
And I should mention that I am not a fan of the HD600/HD650 headphones.

Thanks.


----------



## Shane D

For any Canadians following this thread, there is a used Pro iCAN available on CAM, although it is a Signature Edition. Awesome, but pricey.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Shane D said:


> For any Canadians following this thread, there is a used Pro iCAN available on CAM, although it is a Signature Edition. Awesome, but pricey.


In my experience, people from greater Vancouver area often charge a bit more than the national average.  According to my profile, I've viewed over 57,000 ads on that site, and my memory is pretty good.  Sure, there's 12% sales tax, but that doesn't account for all of it.  On the other hand, the odd individual cares little about what they get for something.  I bought a two week old REL T5 for $450 from a nice fellow, for instance.

Mind you, in this case, it looks like the unit has barely been out of the packaging.


----------



## Shane D (Jul 22, 2022)

ToddRaymond said:


> In my experience, people from greater Vancouver area often charge a bit more than the national average.  According to my profile, I've viewed over 57,000 ads on that site, and my memory is pretty good.  Sure, there's 12% sales tax, but that doesn't account for all of it.  On the other hand, the odd individual cares little about what they get for something.  I bought a two week old REL T5 for $450 from a nice fellow, for instance.
> 
> Mind you, in this case, it looks like the unit has barely been out of the packaging.


Still awfully pricey. Although the MSRP has risen to $3,299.00, plus tax.
I got an OG version last year for $1,500.00 used and that was the most expensive piece of Head-Fi I ever bought. Worth it though!


----------



## Shane D (Jul 11, 2022)

Delete - duplicate


----------



## Idiosyncrat

I just bought an iCan Sig and when I use the unbalanced rca inputs, there is significant noise present even at 10/11 o’clock on all gains. When testing this, no music was playing. I have tried this with Bifrost 2, EF400, Shanling EM5 and ifi Gryphon. Is this defective? I even added the ifi Purifier (usb) on the DAC. Is this defective?


----------



## Shane D

Idiosyncrat said:


> I just bought an iCan Sig and when I use the unbalanced rca inputs, there is significant noise present even at 10/11 o’clock on all gains. When testing this, no music was playing. I have tried this with Bifrost 2, EF400, Shanling EM5 and ifi Gryphon. Is this defective? I even added the ifi Purifier (usb) on the DAC. Is this defective?


It sounds like it. Have you tried a different cable? I have the OG version and it is very  quiet.


----------



## Idiosyncrat

Shane D said:


> It sounds like it. Have you tried a different cable? I have the OG version and it is very  quiet.


Yeah I tried 2-3 different cables. I even tried a dual xlr to rca cable as well. I even tried a gryphon using the 4.4 to rca and 3.5 to rca. Still noisy


----------



## ra990

Is anyone using this as a pre and headamp? I read thru the manual yesterday and apparently, it is not recommended to be used as both. The pre outs never switch off. Is there any negative impact on the unit or SQ if I keep the pre outs connected to a power amp and just switch the power amp on or off when needed, while also using it as a head amp?


----------



## hamachan

ra990 said:


> Is anyone using this as a pre and headamp? I read thru the manual yesterday and apparently, it is not recommended to be used as both. The pre outs never switch off. Is there any negative impact on the unit or SQ if I keep the pre outs connected to a power amp and just switch the power amp on or off when needed, while also using it as a head amp?


I am definitively using both pre-amp and headphone amp modes. I permanently connect RCA cable to a pre-main amp to drive my speaker system.  If I want to listen to music through a head rig,  of course pre-main amp is turned off.  I do not see any issue with that.


----------



## ra990

hamachan said:


> I am definitively using both pre-amp and headphone amp modes. I permanently connect RCA cable to a pre-main amp to drive my speaker system.  If I want to listen to music through a head rig,  of course pre-main amp is turned off.  I do not see any issue with that.


I would have thought that too, but I just found it strange the manual suggested not doing that. Wanted to make sure there wasn't any kind of known issue with that setup.


----------



## TomekZ

I've some Western Electric 396a tubes that I'd like to try in an iFi Pro iCan and iDSD (have both) But I can not figure how to open up the case. Unscrewing the 4 main long screws from the back does not seem to allow it to open. Any simple trick?


----------



## Nicolas Yance (Jul 28, 2022)

TomekZ said:


> I've some Western Electric 396a tubes that I'd like to try in an iFi Pro iCan and iDSD (have both) But I can not figure how to open up the case. Unscrewing the 4 main long screws from the back does not seem to allow it to open. Any simple trick?


Hope this helps. 

You only need to unscrew the ones in the back panel.



I swapped mine a while back to the WE 2c51 (same as yours), they change for the better the sonic characteristics of the pro iCan.


----------



## TomekZ

Thank you, So it seems that besides the four long ones, all of the small ones around the sockets too, then lift off the back panel and the chassis will slide forward.


----------



## TomekZ

After all back screws & the plate was removed, and then a push, the chassis moved forward and I was able to change out the GE 5670 for WE 396A and what a difference. I'd previous replaced the 5670 in a Glow Amp One and found that the 396a conveyed more midrange presence forwardness, fullness and warmth with a sweeter treble. And in iFi, the same holds true.


----------



## Shane D

TomekZ said:


> After all back screws & the plate was removed, and then a push, the chassis moved forward and I was able to change out the GE 5670 for WE 396A and what a difference. I'd previous replaced the 5670 in a Glow Amp One and found that the 396a conveyed more midrange presence forwardness, fullness and warmth with a sweeter treble. And in iFi, the same holds true.


Where did you get the WE396A tubes, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Shane D said:


> Where did you get the WE396A tubes, if you don't mind me asking?


I got mine on Tube depot.


----------



## TomekZ

Same here. And then a pair for half the price on ebay recently, a pair that sounds even better. The ebay seemed like a steal at 99 dollars. A pair of these goes usually 150 plus.


----------



## Shane D

TomekZ said:


> Same here. And then a pair for half the price on ebay recently, a pair that sounds even better. The ebay seemed like a steal at 99 dollars. A pair of these goes usually 150 plus.


I wouldn't mind $150.00pr, but they always seem pretty expensive when I decide to look.


----------



## Shane D

I just checked Tube Depot and these tubes are $180.00US each, plus shipping since I am in Canada. I would be looking at about $500.00 in Canuck bucks, landed. And possibly/probably tax on top of that.
Too rich for me.


----------



## TooFrank

Shane D said:


> I just checked Tube Depot and these tubes are $180.00US each, plus shipping since I am in Canada. I would be looking at about $500.00 in Canuck bucks, landed. And possibly/probably tax on top of that.
> Too rich for me.


Haven't checked but it will probably not be cheaper if shipping to EU?


----------



## Shane D

TooFrank said:


> Haven't checked but it will probably not be cheaper if shipping to EU?


That is definitely something to consider!


----------



## Slim1970

Does anyone know if the fuse is replaceable on the Signature unit?


----------



## seadog123

Just picked up this bad boy to pair with my Susvara. Will the sound change much over time, any run in period required ? I’ve never used tubes before and wasn’t sure if it changes much over time.


----------



## Glokta

Usually with tubes the sound changes in the first 50h or so, the frequency response starts to become more linear after that, that being said, the default tubes on the iCan Pro don't add too much to the equation, they add some depth and smoothness but if you want a real transformation then you should try and change them with some WE396A or Bendix 6385 (the process voids the warranty of course, your choice )


----------



## RonPlata

quick question(s), how many dB is the bass boost for each step? The website only lists the corresponding Hz each step affects (which is very confusion because they're different numbers than the ones written on the actual amp) and that the max boost would be 12dB but that's not enough info.


----------



## Glokta

RonPlata said:


> quick question(s), how many dB is the bass boost for each step? The website only lists the corresponding Hz each step affects (which is very confusion because they're different numbers than the ones written on the actual amp) and that the max boost would be 12dB but that's not enough info.



Quick answer: a lot! 
Please see the graph below


----------



## Idiosyncrat

Wow, that's a lot. I barely go higher than 10Hz. I think the only headphone where I upped it to 20Hz was the HD800s


----------



## RonPlata

Glokta said:


> Quick answer: a lot!
> Please see the graph below


WOW


----------



## EMINENT

Glokta said:


> Quick answer: a lot!
> Please see the graph below



This does not translate to what it sounds like. At least not on LCD5. The 20Hz setting was equivalent to maybe a 4db shelf around 80-100Hz.


----------



## Glokta (Sep 11, 2022)

If anyone from UK wants to grab one, I've put mine up for sale on eBay.
(also have the matching iPower Elite if interested)


----------



## Ta6ypeTka

Guys, does anyone have an electric scheme of ifi ipro signature? Particularly, Im interested in the xbass thing. I've listened to it and Im blown away of how cool ot is. Wanna see how its made.


----------



## rab900

Just replaced the stock GE tubes with a matched pair of WE JW 2C51 (same as 396 A) two days ago.
Sound difference is huge. They are a lot more "muddy" and analog sounding. Just wanted to smoothing my HE1000 V2 up, cause i'm treble sensitive.
I belive there is some burning in process going on. Sound becomes more linear. I'm consider to get some GE 5 stars for comparison. Any other suggestions?


----------



## BattousaiX26

rab900 said:


> Just replaced the stock GE tubes with a matched pair of WE JW 2C51 (same as 396 A) two days ago.
> Sound difference is huge. They are a lot more "muddy" and analog sounding. Just wanted to smoothing my HE1000 V2 up, cause i'm treble sensitive.
> I belive there is some burning in process going on. Sound becomes more linear. I'm consider to get some GE 5 stars for comparison. Any other suggestions?


I am using HE 1000v1 and also treble sensitive like you.

What actually helps my pro ican signature in taming treble was to add Ac Purifier on the chain.

So right now, I am using my he1000 with solid state mode, and it still not bright.


----------



## rab900

Smoother sound from an AC filter? I‘m critical to this.


----------



## BattousaiX26

rab900 said:


> Smoother sound from an AC filter? I‘m critical to this.


Yes at least for me. 

Previously without AC Purfier, I am setting my pro idsd to tube mode as pre amp to my pro ican signature to smooth out the sound cause I am still getting fatigue from the treble if both are on solid state mode.

After adding AC Purifier, I am no longer setting the pro idsd to tube mode.


----------



## ozziegurkan (Nov 2, 2022)

Hi,
I have a pro ican signature for sale on Audiogon. Please take a look and purchase through there if interested. It was a bundle with the iPower Elite from BloomAudio. It’s only 10 months old. Mint condition!

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb07e5-ifi-audio-pro-ican-signature-solid-state


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ozziegurkan said:


> Hi,
> I have a pro ican signature for sale on Audiogon. Please take a look and purchase through there if interested. It was a bundle with the iPower Elite from BloomAudio. It’s only 10 months old. Brand new!
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb07e5-ifi-audio-pro-ican-signature-solid-state


I actually think that all signature products come with the ipower elite.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Yeah, what Hoegaardener70 said.

Also, if it's 10 months old, then it's certainly not 'brand new'.  Mint, fine.  Also, on your ad you mention it being 6 months old, but here, 10?


----------



## ozziegurkan

All great points. I confused it with my Burson for sale. I will fix it up. Sorry about that.


----------



## elwappo99

Recently picked up a ican pro for the second time. Was curious, as this time around I've got a linear power supply for it. 

Has anyone figured out the HDMI pin out on the back? I can't find much for it.


----------



## Slim1970

elwappo99 said:


> Recently picked up a ican pro for the second time. Was curious, as this time around I've got a linear power supply for it.
> 
> Has anyone figured out the HDMI pin out on the back? I can't find much for it.


It's used to connect to the Pro iESL


----------



## BillinSF

rab900 said:


> Just replaced the stock GE tubes with a matched pair of WE JW 2C51 (same as 396 A) two days ago.
> Sound difference is huge. They are a lot more "muddy" and analog sounding. Just wanted to smoothing my HE1000 V2 up, cause i'm treble sensitive.
> I belive there is some burning in process going on. Sound becomes more linear. I'm consider to get some GE 5 stars for comparison. Any other suggestions?


I just bought this unit (Signature model) a couple of days ago.  Love the recommendation  of the WE 396A tubes and just ordered some.  I'll be feeding this unit from a Woo Audio WA22 (tube amp) through the preamp outputs.

In my 60's and I just love the tube sound.  Once I get this all set up, will be ordering Susvaras with a return window.  Bought the ICan based on research re power needs.


----------



## rab900 (Nov 6, 2022)

Some GE's 5 stars are on the way and should arrive in the upcoming week. They are really hard to find at the moment.

I will compare those to the WE's. I like the WE's a lot, but they sounds a bit too "spongy" when busy music is playing. Tube+ mode is sometimes a good compromise.

Someone combined the iCAN with a R2R DAC?


----------



## betula

rab900 said:


> Some GE's 5 stars are on the way and should arrive in the upcoming week. They are really hard to find at the moment.
> 
> I will compare those to the WE's. I like the WE's a lot, but they sounds a bit too "spongy" when busy music is playing. Tube+ mode is sometimes a good compromise.
> 
> Someone combined the iCAN with a R2R DAC?


I am about to pair my iCan with an R2R DAC, the Musician Pegasus. The DAC is arriving next week and then it needs some burn in time, but I will share my findings later on.


----------



## rab900

Very interesting! I've got my eye on the Pegasus aswell. I'm curious what you will report!

Which tubes do you use in the iCAN?


----------



## betula

rab900 said:


> Very interesting! I've got my eye on the Pegasus aswell. I'm curious what you will report!
> 
> Which tubes do you use in the iCAN?


Just the stock tubes right now. If the pairing with the Pegasus works well, I will experiment with different tubes later on.


----------



## elwappo99

Slim1970 said:


> It's used to connect to the Pro iESL



Yup, but knowing a bit about electrostatic transformers, I'm guessing the HDMI is only passing a 4 pin XLR signal out the back. Wiring up a HDMI connector could mean adding a SRD-7 to sit next to this for a nice compact set up


----------



## Slim1970

elwappo99 said:


> Yup, but knowing a bit about electrostatic transformers, I'm guessing the HDMI is only passing a 4 pin XLR signal out the back. Wiring up a HDMI connector could mean adding a SRD-7 to sit next to this for a nice compact set up


That would be nice indeed!


----------



## alekc

rab900 said:


> Someone combined the iCAN with a R2R DAC?


@rab900  I did with Rockna WaveLight. The problem is that iCAN is not on Rockna level IMHO so it was the weak link in the system chain. Not a bad pairing but not a perfect one either. Preferred it more in Tube/Tube+ mode but keep in mind that at the same time I had already AuroraSound HEADA which beats Pro iCan easliy. 

PS: great avatar you have BTW, do you own one of those Saabs? Brilliant cars.


----------



## tamleo

alekc said:


> @rab900  I did with Rockna WaveLight. The problem is that iCAN is not on Rockna level IMHO so it was the weak link in the system chain. Not a bad pairing but not a perfect one either. Preferred it more in Tube/Tube+ mode but keep in mind that at the same time I had already AuroraSound HEADA which beats Pro iCan easliy.
> 
> PS: great avatar you have BTW, do you own one of those Saabs? Brilliant cars.


Hello. What is the not good area of the Ican? At $1800 I think it is in totl realm


----------



## rab900

alekc said:


> @rab900  I did with Rockna WaveLight. The problem is that iCAN is not on Rockna level IMHO so it was the weak link in the system chain. Not a bad pairing but not a perfect one either. Preferred it more in Tube/Tube+ mode but keep in mind that at the same time I had already AuroraSound HEADA which beats Pro iCan easliy.
> 
> PS: great avatar you have BTW, do you own one of those Saabs? Brilliant cars.


Yes, the iCAN is known for a huge versatility, not necessarily for the best sound quality.
In what "areas" do you think it's lagging behind?

PS: Yes, i own two Saab's at the moment (MY92 900i as in pic, MY04 9-5 Turbo) and various 9000, 9-3 in the past. I can't imagine driving anything else.
One expensive hobby is not enough


----------



## vonBaron

ICan is good in everything but at the same time nothing the best.


----------



## alekc

tamleo said:


> Hello. What is the not good area of the Ican? At $1800 I think it is in totl realm


@tamleo First of all I think this is a case of synergy - other amps have better synergy with Rockna. Secondly the difference between Tube and Tube+ modes are minimal and stock tubes are far from greatest. iCan is full of features but is not a master of any unless you really need 3d and Xbass and can not live without those. Do not get me wrong - I really like this amp and I think this an original Pro iCan has good value to price ratio. It is just that with Rockna WL there are other amps with better synergy. My HEADA costed a bit less than Pro iCan Signature BTW. However it all comes down to personal taste and it is all so subjective. However if you spend more time with better amps you will probably find out that this is not an end-game headphone amp.


----------



## alekc

vonBaron said:


> ICan is good in everything but at the same time nothing the best.


Thank you @vonBaron - my point exactly  The funny thing is that after few years of owning it I know I prefer SS mode most. There are so many better tube amps around however the solid state mode has something I would call old ifi house sound signature and sometimes I'm in mood for it.


----------



## alekc

rab900 said:


> Yes, the iCAN is known for a huge versatility, not necessarily for the best sound quality.
> In what "areas" do you think it's lagging behind?
> 
> PS: Yes, i own two Saab's at the moment (MY92 900i as in pic, MY04 9-5 Turbo) and various 9000, 9-3 in the past. I can't imagine driving anything else.
> One expensive hobby is not enough


@rab900 congrats on great taste in music, audio gear and cars. IMHO driving a Saab is not a hobby: it is a style of life and an statement. I wish those were still being manufactured. Saab Turbo X has been the best car I ever had especially when taking into account price performance. Now going back to Pro iCan... I totally agree with you and with @vonBaron. The number of inputs and outputs is great and it can be very useful. You can not write anything bad about this amp, yet it is hard to fall in love with its sound because there is always something missing. For my Pro iCan has been a nice stage in my audio journey and I'm glad I bought it. Is it my favorite headamp of all times? No it is not. It is a good amp? Yes it is, so for me it was just a stage and not an end of journey.


----------



## betula

vonBaron said:


> ICan is good in everything but at the same time nothing the best.


Sure, there are better SS and tube amps out there, but the og Pro iCan is under $1000 these days on the second-hand market. That is a pretty good value. If you want noticeably better sound, you have to pay 50% if not 100% more. 

Ifi's USP apart from the versatility is a thick and punchy, dynamic and impactful sound. A lot of headphones out there can use a bit of this energy, impact and bass dial. Paired with a good DAC the iCan can be a very good value combo these days.

I remember, a few years ago I preferred the SS section as I felt I just loose too much detail with tube modes, but these days I find I prefer the tube mode as it sounds a little warmer which helps vocals to be more lifelike. And this is with stock tubes. I am more and more tempted to roll some tubes, I would probably get a pair of GE 5 stars, as based on what I read in this thread it costs one third of the WE396A and seems to be more reliable while sonically they are extremely close.  

I have no first-hand experience with tube rolling, so it is a noob question: do I have to change both tubes in the iCan even if I only intend to use the first level of tube sound?


----------



## vonBaron

Everyone forget about power source, you can get even more from ICan if you replace this crap ifi black brick to good LPS.


----------



## alekc

vonBaron said:


> Everyone forget about power source, you can get even more from ICan if you replace this crap ifi black brick to good LPS.


@vonBaron indeed. Even switching from original PSU to iPower Elite (the one that comes with Pro iCan Signature) gives important changes in SQ. I would say more blacker background, overall better sound control and a bit more details.


----------



## rab900 (Nov 7, 2022)

My passion for Saab began in my childhood. I saw a 900 Turbo 16s at an age of 10 and felt in love with its silhouette. It is a completely differente shape as other cars at that time. I love its quirkyness and the way it feels and drives. I like the feeling of well-being in the interior and the long-distance quality of the newer Saabs. They just made the best seats in my opinion.

@iCAN: I bought it in first place cause its versatility. My HE1000 V2 is way too bright for me in SS mode. The tubes smoothes it up nicely. I like to play around with different tubes aswell. 
On the other hand i like the xBass und 3D (crossfeed) functions. Especially crossfeed brings my LCD-4 into life.
Same as for my Genelec Monitors. They sounds way better on the iCAN. Great little device!


----------



## iFi audio

alekc said:


> I would say more blacker background, overall better sound control and a bit more details.



That's exactly what better power supplies do 



vonBaron said:


> crap ifi black brick



It's relative really. It'd take comparing ours to any other affordable similarly rated PSU and have that conversation then


----------



## BattousaiX26

Anyone experience wobbling of volume control on pro ican and what did you use to tighten it up again?


----------



## vonBaron

U have small screw in knob, just screw it.


----------



## BattousaiX26

vonBaron said:


> U have small screw in knob, just screw it.


got it, I was able to tighten it up. Thanks


----------



## betula (Nov 11, 2022)

rab900 said:


> Someone combined the iCAN with a R2R DAC?


*I have combined the iCan with the Musician Pegasus R2R, here are my findings:*

The Pegasus has arrived 5 days ago, and it has been switched on since then, so it has around 120 hrs burn in time. I am not a big believer of burn in, but in the first 24 hours the sound has definitely opened up and became a bit clearer, more spacious.

With d/s DACs I preferred the tube 1 mode on the iCan. There is a little loss of details, dynamics and resolution compared to SS mode, but it is marginal to what you gain with tube 1 mode. The sound in tube 1 mode is a little warmer and less edgy, more organic. It is a relatively subtle change but noticeable enough.

The Pegasus R2R sounds sweet and natural, very organic and pleasant. Not as neutral and precise as some d/s DACs but a lot more enjoyable due to its tonality and slight colouration. (More impressions in the Pegasus thread.)

With the Pegasus I did not feel the SS mode on the iCan sharp or fatiguing anymore. The R2R DAC has tamed the edges and breathed some life in the sound. With the Pegasus I actually prefer the SS mode on the iCan because it sounds equally organic and pleasant as d/s DACs in tube 1 mode, but without losing out on some precision offered in SS mode on the iCan.

This might be a slightly different case on the iCan with upgrade tubes. I only have the stock tubes. That would be an interesting experiment which I might try.
In the meantime, I have acquired a GSX Mini amp as well, since even SS mode came alive with the Pegasus R2R and the GSX Mini is said to be a better SS amp than the SS section of the iCan.

With the amp comparison I can say it is actually pretty close, but the Pro iCan is warmer and less technical. The GSX Mini is more neutral, but still maintains just a very small hint of warmth. The GSX Mini is cleaner and clearer with bigger space and better overall resolution. Mids are a little nicer and more engaging on the iCan but bass and treble is significantly more refined, defined and more detailed, clearer on the Mini. The Mini is also tighter due to its better control.

I am still curious to try the iCan with some upgraded tubes, but to my personal taste a relatively good R2R combined with relatively good SS amp sounds good (organic, lifelike, precise) enough. I appreciate an organic and lifelike sound a lot, but also love speed, clarity, control and impact especially when it comes to bass. For my taste the Pegasus and the GSX Mini hits a pretty good balance here. Others might want even more warmth or more neutrality. Good luck on your journey.


----------



## BattousaiX26

betula said:


> *I have combined the iCan with the Musician Pegasus R2R, here are my findings:*
> 
> The Pegasus has arrived 5 days ago, and it has been switched on since then, so it has around 120 hrs burn in time. I am not a big believer of burn in, but in the first 24 hours the sound has definitely opened up and became a bit clearer, more spacious.
> 
> ...


Is musician pegasus a direct competitor to denafrips ares 2?


----------



## betula

BattousaiX26 said:


> Is musician pegasus a direct competitor to denafrips ares 2?


I haven't heard the Ares 2, but all sources I contacted or checked (10+) confirmed that the Pegasus is more resolving, more spacious, more detailed with better texture than the Ares 2.


----------



## Slim1970 (Nov 11, 2022)

betula said:


> *I have combined the iCan with the Musician Pegasus R2R, here are my findings:*
> 
> The Pegasus has arrived 5 days ago, and it has been switched on since then, so it has around 120 hrs burn in time. I am not a big believer of burn in, but in the first 24 hours the sound has definitely opened up and became a bit clearer, more spacious.
> 
> ...


It looks like you're building a system around the Elites. The GS-X Mini is an excellent amp. Do you think the Pro iCan Signature would offer any upgrade to the sound?


----------



## betula (Nov 11, 2022)

Slim1970 said:


> It looks like you're building a system around the Elites. The GS-X Mini is an excellent amp


Well, the Elite is going nowhere.  Even after 10 months of ownership I still love them.
With this current Pegasus/GSX Mini combo I seemed to reach a pretty satisfying compromise between my budget and sonic taste. 

I tested the Signature. While it is a definite upgrade to the og iCan I think in my case it wouldn't really make a difference in my perception/decision. The Signature iCan is around the same level as the GSX Mini as far as I can remember. I bought my second-hand GSX Mini cheaper than a second-hand Signature iCan.


----------



## Slim1970

betula said:


> Well, the Elite is going nowhere.  Even after 10 months of ownership I still love them.
> With this current Pegasus/GSX Mini combo I seemed to reach a pretty satisfying compromise between my budget and sonic taste.
> 
> I tested the Signature. While it is a definite upgrade to the og iCan I think in my case it wouldn't really make a difference in my perception/decision. The Signature iCan is around the same level as the GSX Mini as far as I can remember. I bought my second-hand GSX Mini cheaper than a second-hand Signature iCan.


I’m glad you’re honing in on a sound signature you like. It’s a tough thing to do in our hobby. It took me years to end up where I am.

I’m really wanting to add a Pro iCan Signature to my stable due to it being so versatile. I think it would be a good fit since I have a wide variety of headphones. I’m more interested in its sound signature from what you can remember versus the GS-X Mini. Thanks for your thoughts!


----------



## Shane D

Slim1970 said:


> I’m glad you’re honing in on a sound signature you like. It’s a tough thing to do in our hobby. It took me years to end up where I am.
> 
> I’m really wanting to add a Pro iCan Signature to my stable due to it being so versatile. I think it would be a good fit since I have a wide variety of headphones. I’m more interested in its sound signature from what you can remember versus the GS-X Mini. Thanks for your thoughts!


It does take years and so much money to figure out where you want to go. Nice to get close at least.


----------



## betula

Slim1970 said:


> I’m glad you’re honing in on a sound signature you like. It’s a tough thing to do in our hobby. It took me years to end up where I am.
> 
> I’m really wanting to add a Pro iCan Signature to my stable due to it being so versatile. I think it would be a good fit since I have a wide variety of headphones. I’m more interested in its sound signature from what you can remember versus the GS-X Mini. Thanks for your thoughts!


It took me years too and I don't think it will ever end. There are new releases every year. (Caldera)
I think if you can thoroughly enjoy a new gear for more than 6-9 months that is quite exceptional. 

The Signature is a great amp, but its value lies in its versatility. It is an improved Pro iCan with blacker background, better separation more details and control. SS and tube mode what makes it special. 
As far as I can remember I would still pick the GSX Mini when it comes to pure SS performance.


----------



## Slim1970

Shane D said:


> It does take years and so much money to figure out where you want to go. Nice to get close at least.


Yes, I am happy with my current setup and it lets me enjoy all my headphones. It‘s as ‘universal“ as I can get it.


----------



## betula

Slim1970 said:


> Yes, I am happy with my current setup and it lets me enjoy all my headphones. It‘s as ‘universal“ as I can get it.


Out of curiosity, as someone who can afford most dream gear, what is your favourite headphone, DAC, amp and why? What would be your ultimate general setup if you had to build only one headphone system?


----------



## Slim1970

betula said:


> It took me years too and I don't think it will ever end. There are new releases every year. (Caldera)
> I think if you can thoroughly enjoy a new gear for more than 6-9 months that is quite exceptional.
> 
> The Signature is a great amp, but its value lies in its versatility. It is an improved Pro iCan with blacker background, better separation more details and control. SS and tube mode what makes it special.
> As far as I can remember I would still pick the GSX Mini when it comes to pure SS performance.


You’re right, even with all the gear I have I still want to listen and tryout newly released items. The Caldera is high on my “need to hear” list.

It’s interesting you find the Pro iCan Signature so versatile. That’s why I want to incorporate it into my setup. Before I got the Trafomatic Head 2, I had the GS-X Mk2. It’s even more of what you’re hearing.


betula said:


> Out of curiosity, as someone who can afford most dream gear, what is your favourite headphone, DAC, amp and why? What would be your ultimate general setup if you had to build only one headphone system?


My favorite headphone right now is the T+A Solitaire P followed closely by the Final Audio D8000 Pro's. The Solitaire P's have everything I like in a headphone. Bass that's deep, layered, and well defined. A midrange that is musical, textured, and natural sounding. Some say that the treble isn't as well defined as the TC's or Susvara's, but I think that is by design. The Solitaire P's need power and with power comes higher volume levels. To keep the siblance down I think T+A made the right choice in not boosting the treble when the volume is turned up. I've easily EQ'd the treble frequencies to my taste. 

The Solitaire P's are full bodied, much like the Elites but with better technicalities. The Solitaire P's are fast with little bass decay. The have excellent air around the notes, but they are not as ethereal as the Susvara's. So they play favorable with all genres of music. They have excellent transient speed, notes are crisp and snappy.

I rank them above the AB-1266 TC and Susvara's. Both of which I've previously owned and sold. I owned the Susvara's for 4 years and the AB-1266's for nearly 3 years. Once I got the Solitaire P's, neither got much head time. What turned me off about the AB-1266's was bass distortion. As good as that headphone does bass with at regular listening levels, when pushed they could not play the deepest notes of EDM without falling apart. It's not talked about a lot but it's there. The Susvara's were outstanding, but sounded thin when it came to playing genres that needed more energy and fullness like R&B, reggae, rock, metal and hip-hop. The Solitaire P's don't have either of these issues. In the end it's a matter of taste and preference. 

This is why an amp like the Pro iCan Signature would work well in my setup. The various modes, Xbass, and 3D+, would be features I would use regularly depending on headphone. It wouldn't be my main amp but it will work great in my reference setup when I want some solid state flavor. I'm also eyeing the Holo Audio Bliss. I'm waiting on more reviews on it. I want to know what kind of sound signature it has.


----------



## betula (Nov 11, 2022)

Slim1970 said:


> You’re right, even with all the gear I have I still want to listen and tryout newly released items. The Caldera is high on my “need to hear” list.
> 
> It’s interesting you find the Pro iCan Signature so versatile. That’s why I want to incorporate it into my setup. Before I got the Trafomatic Head 2, I had the GS-X Mk2. It’s even more of what you’re hearing.
> 
> ...


Solitaire P is exceptional indeed. I had the pleasure of auditioning them. I would describe them as the 'perfect' headphones. They do everything you want, and they do it to a very high standard. I prefer them to the Susvara as well.
Elite's speciality is a unique sweetness in its tone which makes it addictive to listen to at least to me. That said, both Susvara and Solitaire P are technically better performing headphones, but I am glued to the Elite like fly to honey.
Solitaire P would be my very, very close second choice if I had the budget. I prefer them to all other flagships, and I heard them all except the 1266.


----------



## Slim1970

betula said:


> Solitaire P is exceptional indeed. I had the pleasure of auditioning them. I would describe them as the 'perfect' headphones. They do everything you want, and they do it to a very high standard. I prefer them to the Susvara as well.
> Elite's speciality is a unique sweetness in its tone which makes it addictive to listen to at least to me. That said, both Susvara and Solitaire P are technically better performing headphones, but I am glued to the Elite like fly to honey.
> Solitaire P would be my very, very close second choice if I had the budget. I prefer them to all other flagships, and I heard them all except the 1266.


The Elites are indeed great headphones. I owned them for a stint and I understand the love affair you have with them. If you had to keep one, it's hard to argue against the Elites or Solitaire P's for that matter. They are both two of the best all around headphones I've heard. Considering the price difference between the two, one headphone has a clear advantage .


----------



## rab900

A pair of GE 5 stars arrived yesterday and i put them today into the iCAN.
The amp switches directly into self protection 

How can i test/messure the tubes?


----------



## squeakez

rab900 said:


> A pair of GE 5 stars arrived yesterday and i put them today into the iCAN.
> The amp switches directly into self protection
> 
> How can i test/messure the tubes?


I had the exact same problem when I ordered a set of GE 5 stars. I'm not sure measuring them will help much. It seems that there are some GE 5 stars that work and some that don't. I ordered a set of Western Electric 396A (I think that's what they are) and they have been perfect and made a very noticeable improvement in sound quality. Granted, they are more expensive, but I think worth every penny.


----------



## betula

squeakez said:


> I had the exact same problem when I ordered a set of GE 5 stars. I'm not sure measuring them will help much. It seems that there are some GE 5 stars that work and some that don't. I ordered a set of Western Electric 396A (I think that's what they are) and they have been perfect and made a very noticeable improvement in sound quality. Granted, they are more expensive, but I think worth every penny.


Earlier in the thread some people said their 396A didn't work either. It seems like a lottery with these tubes and the iCan: there is no certain recipe for success.


----------



## squeakez

betula said:


> Earlier in the thread some people said their 396A didn't work either. It seems like a lottery with these tubes and the iCan: there is no certain recipe for success.


I agree with you. I have owned 2 Pro iCans - both had/have the WE 396A tubes installed and have worked beautifully. I guess I got lucky but it did make me believe that the 396A was the better bet when choosing tubes.


----------



## BillinSF (Nov 13, 2022)

betula said:


> Out of curiosity, as someone who can afford most dream gear, what is your favourite headphone, DAC, amp and why? What would be your ultimate general setup if you had to build only one headphone system?


Betula.  to answer your question.  I have a Woo WA22 amp with upgraded tubes driving Sennheiser 800S headphones (dynamic drivers).   I have been very happy with this setup.  These headphones deliver an enormous soundstage.  Highly recommend open-backed headphones for this reason.  800S is a must-have.

I guess its a matter of taste but I'm a fan of the tube amp mellow sound.  Plus you get the ability to "roll" driver tubes, that all have different sound signatures.

I'd suggest a set of magnetic planar headphones as well.  Such a different sound.  I'm shopping HIFIMAN right now.

I edit this post to add this paragraph.  I bought the ICan because it can drive planar headphones, which seem to require enormous amount of power.  My normal setup is the WA22 tube amp.  I will admit that my Senn 800's sound great thru the ICan.  

DACs - no strong opinion.  It's just a chip.

Good luck.


----------



## BillinSF

betula said:


> Earlier in the thread some people said their 396A didn't work either. It seems like a lottery with these tubes and the iCan: there is no certain recipe for success.


Hi folks.  Help me understand the discussion about WE 396A tubes failing and ICan self-protection mode.  
I just ordered a matched pair on eBay.  Was planning to take them to a local electronics shop with the amp here in SF to install.

Is what you are saying is that the main unit will just shut off if there is a tube problem after the swap?


----------



## chaz_flhr

rab900 said:


> A pair of GE 5 stars arrived yesterday and i put them today into the iCAN.
> The amp switches directly into self protection
> 
> How can i test/messure the tubes?


Tubes must be closely matched, both ifi pro products are sensitive to mismatched tubes, but upgraded Tubes do make a noticeable difference in sound over the stock tubes.


----------



## rab900

I put the WE 2C51/396A back into the unit. These tubes i bought previously as a matched pair are working absolutely flawless.

About the GE 5 stars i habe no idea how they measure. I don't cared that much, cause they are hard to get anyways at the moment. I was glad to get my hands on them.

I also reseated them and changed the channels. The iCAN goes into self protection either.


----------



## betula

BillinSF said:


> Betula.  to answer your question.  I have a Woo WA22 amp with upgraded tubes driving Sennheiser 800S headphones (dynamic drivers).   I have been very happy with this setup.  These headphones deliver an enormous soundstage.  Highly recommend open-backed headphones for this reason.  800S is a must-have.
> 
> I guess its a matter of taste but I'm a fan of the tube amp mellow sound.  Plus you get the ability to "roll" driver tubes, that all have different sound signatures.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the sharing and thanks for that, but my question was specifically aimed at @Slim1970 which he answered above.


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## betula

rab900 said:


> I put the WE 2C51/396A back into the unit. These tubes i bought previously as a matched pair are working absolutely flawless.
> 
> About the GE 5 stars i habe no idea how they measure. I don't cared that much, cause they are hard to get anyways at the moment. I was glad to get my hands on them.
> 
> I also reseated them and changed the channels. The iCAN goes into self protection either.


Just for clarity, did you buy unmatched GE 5 stars then?


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## rab900

Yes, the seller had no measurements.


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## iFi audio

chaz_flhr said:


> Tubes must be closely matched, both ifi pro products are sensitive to mismatched tubes, but upgraded Tubes do make a noticeable difference in sound over the stock tubes.



Yup, there is still some room for improvements re tubes in our Pro range, but we're very pleased with GE JAN 5670 in general and we think they're great as a stock option


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## BillinSF

betula said:


> I appreciate the sharing and thanks for that, but my question was specifically aimed at @Slim1970 which he answered above.


me and my big mouth!


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## chaz_flhr

rab900 said:


> Yes, the seller had no measurements.


Don't buy tubes that aren't closely matched,  it would be nice if we knew the allowed deviation between tubes.


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## rab900

Unfortunately I didn't know that the iCAN is so bitchy when it comes to deviation between tubes.

Does anyone have the ability to measure them? Just PM me.


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## BillinSF

Bought used 1 week ago.  Just swapped in WE 396A tubes - so easy to do.  Wow!  Senn 800S are singing.  

HFM Arya on the way and I just won an eBay auction on Susvara.

Liking this amp a lot.


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## BillinSF

I'm wondering if anyone has experience using the ICan solely as a preamp?  I am loving the Susvaras I just purchased but want more power than the ICan delivers.  So just ordered a Benchmark AHB2. That's a very neutral amp based upon reviews.  

I like the "tube" setting on the ICan, which I guess passes through the XLR outputs on the back.  

Any experiences with a setup something like this?  Dac > ICan > speaker amp.


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## BlueSkyHi

I used the iCan Signature directly into my power amps for a while.  It sounded just fine and, yes, the balanced outputs benefit from the tube function.


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## BlueSkyHi

DACs - no strong opinion.  It's just a chip.

Not if your DAC is an R2R DAC like a Denafrips


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## BillinSF

BlueSkyHi said:


> DACs - no strong opinion.  It's just a chip.
> 
> Not if your DAC is an R2R DAC like a Denafrips


I've been researching those.   Tx for the note.


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## Shane D

BillinSF said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has experience using the ICan solely as a preamp?  I am loving the Susvaras I just purchased but want more power than the ICan delivers.  So just ordered a Benchmark AHB2. That's a very neutral amp based upon reviews.
> 
> I like the "tube" setting on the ICan, which I guess passes through the XLR outputs on the back.
> 
> Any experiences with a setup something like this?  Dac > ICan > speaker amp.


How loud do you listen? I have been listening to my HE6se V2's on my iFi Pro iCAN all week and the combo is awesome! With the laptop Windows volume at 100%, I can't even get out of low gain or go past 11:00. Of course I don't listen above 75Db's. And I am using balanced out.

Are the Susvara's really that much harder to drive or do you just listen really loudly?


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## BillinSF

Shane D said:


> How loud do you listen? I have been listening to my HE6se V2's on my iFi Pro iCAN all week and the combo is awesome! With the laptop Windows volume at 100%, I can't even get out of low gain or go past 11:00. Of course I don't listen above 75Db's. And I am using balanced out.
> 
> Are the Susvara's really that much harder to drive or do you just listen really loudly?


I'm using Amazon Music thru a desktop.  Volume at Max.  High Gain on Ican.  It's not killing my eardrums but I can tell that the Susvaras want more.  These headphones want crazy power.  

As an old guy (I go back to the days of Carver amps and Bose 901's and Advent speakers), I just think there is better sound rendering ahead with a speaker amp.  We'll see.  Lots of internet chatter on this topic.


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## dcguy73

BillinSF said:


> I'm using Amazon Music thru a desktop.  Volume at Max.  High Gain on Ican.  It's not killing my eardrums but I can tell that the Susvaras want more.  These headphones want crazy power.
> 
> As an old guy (I go back to the days of Carver amps and Bose 901's and Advent speakers), I just think there is better sound rendering ahead with a speaker amp.  We'll see.  Lots of internet chatter on this topic.


The iCan Pro works well as a preamp, and it still gives you access to tube modes, bass boost,  and crossfeed functionality. I concur that the Susvara sounds better with more power than the iCan’s headphone out provides.


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## el tri head

I use my ican pro as a preamp and love it. It has options and sounds great through my system. I have magnepan speakers and an XTZ class D amp, which allows the preamp to give the voice to the music. I actually have two...and may sell one for the right offer.


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## MetalVGAnime (Dec 22, 2022)

I've had my iCan Pro for nearly five years now and its still my favorite SS amp in my collection for its clean and relatively neutral sound signature, flexibility with different headphones and gobs of power.

Just out of curiosity has anyone ever tried swapping out the stock ifi iPowerPlus for a different external linear power supply such as ifi's newer iPower Elite or perhaps an Sbooster BOTW Eco and noticed any sort of significant difference to the sound quality? I've heard a lot about how connecting a better linear power supply feeding your audio equipment can supposedly give you quite an improvement over a lesser power supply or not having one at all so just curious if someone could chime in with their opinions on this. Thanks


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## alekc

MetalVGAnime said:


> I've had my iCan Pro for nearly five years now and its still my favorite SS amp in my collection for its clean and relatively neutral sound signature, flexibility with different headphones and gobs of power.
> 
> Just out of curiosity has anyone ever tried swapping out the stock ifi iPowerPlus for a different external linear power supply such as ifi's newer iPower Elite or perhaps an Sbooster BOTW Eco and noticed any sort of significant difference to the sound quality? I've heard a lot about how connecting a better linear power supply feeding your audio equipment can supposedly give you quite an improvement over a lesser power supply or not having one at all so just curious if someone could chime in with their opinions on this. Thanks


Hi and welcome @MetalVGAnime 

I've tried to swap original iPowerPlus for iPower Elite and I guess it gives a large percent of Pro iCan Signature. To make a long story short: blacker background and overall better control over sound, cleaner sound signature while not loosing anything from ifi house sound IMHO.


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## MetalVGAnime

Thank you for sharing your experience with regards to the different power supplies alekc. 

That's certainly interesting how an upgraded power supply would be able to bring the iCan Pro much closer to the Signature version. I might consider upgrading the iPowerPlus to an iPower Elite in future if I can find a good deal for one. May I ask are you using the 12V version or perhaps the 15V version with the iCan Pro?


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## BillinSF

dcguy73 said:


> The iCan Pro works well as a preamp, and it still gives you access to tube modes, bass boost,  and crossfeed functionality. I concur that the Susvara sounds better with more power than the iCan’s headphone out provides.


AHB2 showed up a couple of days ago. Even with DAC, ICan as preamp ... dead quiet noise floor.   Susvara very happy now.


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## DavidWhite (Dec 31, 2022)

I upgraded the iPowerPlus to Hypsos PSU and the results are very favorable. Hypsos gives much better punch (dynamics) hence the music becomes more lively. The sound stage may become wider but not obvious to my ear.  I tried the iPower Elite a while ago but it caused humming in the iCan Pro. This may had to do with my system or I got a bad unit. Lots of other people here reported good results when upgrade to iPower Elite. The Hypsos is quiet but I cannot tell if it is quieter than iPowerPlus or not since neither of them has humming when I set to the highest volume using HD800S.  My setup:
    Audiomirror Tubadour IV -> iCan Pro (with Bendix 6385) -> HD800S
My next logic step is to try SR Purplse fuse on the Hypsos.

IMO, upgrading your tube is a highly recommended to get the best out of the iCan Pro.  Tubes like GE 5 star or CBS-Hytron or Bendix 2C51  is a good starting point. WE 396A does not fit my taste: too much rolled off on the high frequency hence not good for classical music. With the stock tube, I prefer the SS mode better. In tube mode, I always run Tube+ mode which has minimal feedback.


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