# Dual 1218 turntable has weak rotation



## infinitesymphony

Hey vinyl guys, I've been given a Dual / United Audio 1218 turntable for potential repair and I'm seeking advice. The major issue is that its rotation is weak, and seems to be getting weaker every time; at this point, it needs a starting push to rotate at all.

 I understand that this is an idler-wheel drive system, and that the easiest way to check to see what's going on would be to remove the platter (as it says in the manual for the 1219 from Vinyl Engine), but I'm having extreme difficulty taking it off. It seems I need a special tool in order to pry out the center piece, which seems to be wedged in there pretty well.

 There are some other mechanical issues, but I'm wondering: is it more likely to be a bad belt / worn rubber idler wheel, or the motor itself? If it's the motor, I'm guessing it's not worth the cost of replacement.


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## bhjazz

Seems that if it is getting noticeably worse each time, I'd vote for the motor. Unless the idler wheel has a rubber covering that is disintegrating really fast! 

 If the motor is going, then the belt is also very likely to need replacement. 

 Can you post some photos? Specifically this center piece you speak of. My old Dual did take a bit to take apart, but I just needed the right sized screwdriver and the right angle to pop that ring thing off. 

 Let's get a look at the motor first. They could be lots cheaper now than they originaly were. Who knows?! I repaired an Onkyo DX-7500 CD player a few years back. The spindle motor was only $50. I say only...but that still was the only thing wrong as the laser had many more years left on it.


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## infinitesymphony

Heheh, we'll see, I want to make sure I'm not too out of my depth. The underside of this thing looks monstrously complicated. All of the hardware mechanisms are amazing but a little scary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Pictures:

 Turntable with cover removed





 Mat removed with center spindle still on





 Center spindle removed, shows metal piece inset (top-most lip)





 Close-up from a slightly different angle, showing metal piece inside other metal piece





 I've heard that there might be a special tool for prying out this center piece. Whatever method I use, it will take a high amount of force and leverage; using small screwdrivers didn't work.


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## kevin gilmore

There is no belt. There is only an idler wheel, and the rubber on
 the idler wheel is toast.

 You have to get the clip off. Once you see someone else do it
 then you will consider it easy. One way is to use a sharp needle
 nose pliers to spread out the clip from the inside
 and insert something slim and
 sharp at the other end, then lift up and pull. Hopefully it will
 not launch itself across the room to a place you will never find it.
 But really the clip is completely unnecessary.

 spinning the clip around to where the open area of the shaft is
 may make it easier to grab and lift from there.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to get the clip off. Once you see someone else do it
 then you will consider it easy. One way is to use a sharp needle
 nose pliers to spread out the clip from the inside
 and insert something slim and
 sharp at the other end, then lift up and pull. Hopefully it will
 not launch itself across the room to a place you will never find it.
 But really the clip is completely unnecessary._

 

Yeah, I wish someone had a video posted. I read the plier trick on another site but haven't been able to get any leverage that way (though I might be doing it wrong). But I'll keep trying...

 I could use an on-site Dual expert... Other problems: speed selector will not move from "33" and the Start/Stop switch is broken so the table just turns on when it's plugged in. But regardless, these are secondary to getting the turntable spinning properly.

 I tried pulling on the "C clip" as hard as I could while also pushing down the button in the bottom, but nothing budged.

 Underside of Dual 1218





 Frozen speed selector switch


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## SiBurning

I know there's a bunch of people around here that mod those old duals, but audiokarma is the best place to get help for vintage stuff in general. Check out the turntables forum. 
Turntables & Tape - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums


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## juniperlater

I usually use a small, strong screwdriver for that. However, I second AK. They know what is up more than I do. I have only done this six or seven times. There are guys on there who currently own more than twice that many Duals.


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## infinitesymphony

Just registered for AudioKarma, and I plan to start a thread as soon as I'm added to the forum. I've seen a few threads there about fixing the 1200 series, so I'm eager to ask about it.

 LPGear has a 1218 idler wheel for sale and it's $89.95 plus shipping. If that turns out to be the problem, it may be cheaper to just buy another turntable.


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## kevin gilmore

The speed switch moves the idler wheel up and down the
 stepped shaft of the motor. Likely needs to be taken apart and
 lubricated. As you switch from speed to speed it backs the
 idler wheel away from the motor and bumps it up or down.

 $90 for the idler wheel is very silly but you may be stuck if rubber
 rejuvinator does not work.

 Fact is this is a really awful turntable. Lousy wow and flutter due
 to idler wheel, miserable tonearm... Good item to practice on.


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## juniperlater

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The speed switch moves the idler wheel up and down the
 stepped shaft of the motor. Likely needs to be taken apart and
 lubricated. As you switch from speed to speed it backs the
 idler wheel away from the motor and bumps it up or down.

 $90 for the idler wheel is very silly but you may be stuck if rubber
 rejuvinator does not work.

 Fact is this is a really awful turntable. Lousy wow and flutter due
 to idler wheel, miserable tonearm... Good item to practice on._

 

I *love* Dual turntables and, at the same time, disagree with nothing you said. They are terrible. Beautiful yes. Terrible and unreliable yes. And they don't play well with Grado. And the tonearm is a vinyl eater - totally waiting to get reamed about this one, but I have seen the long-term effects of the 1229 tonearm and it is not pretty.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *juniperlater* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I *love* Dual turntables and, at the same time, disagree with nothing you said. They are terrible. Beautiful yes. Terrible and unreliable yes. And they don't play well with Grado. And the tonearm is a vinyl eater - totally waiting to get reamed about this one, but I have seen the long-term effects of the 1229 tonearm and it is not pretty._

 

What makes it a vinyl eater? I thought that Dual tonearms were on the lighter side (but I might be totally wrong).

 Also, does the Dual 1218 take standard cartridges? It appears to have a Shure M91ED in at the moment, which I'm guessing is stock.


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## juniperlater

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What makes it a vinyl eater? I thought that Dual tonearms were on the lighter side (but I might be totally wrong).

 Also, does the Dual 1218 take standard cartridges? It appears to have a Shure M91ED in at the moment, which I'm guessing is stock._

 

I thought that too, but then I saw the aftermath of twenty years of careful playing from a Dual 1229 and the vinyl was murdered. I have records that I have played for 15 years from tables from Technics 1200 to Yamaha yp211 to a hundred other kinds of tables and most of it still plays like new.

 Duals take a standard-mount cartridge. It likes some more than others, but Shures are good. In fact, there is a pretty good one out there now mpx something or other that is a nice value at like $60.

 Don't get me wrong, I love Duals. I just don't think they are a place to end up if you really want the best sound and long life for your vinyl.


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## derekbmn

Your best bet for getting the idler wheel resurfaced...Ed Crockett


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## juniperlater

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derekbmn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your best bet for getting the idler wheel resurfaced...Ed Crockett_

 

That's the ticket! Quite a bargain.


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## infinitesymphony

Taking off the platter was easy after I understood which part the C-clip was. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For future reference: C-clip super-simple removal technique





 Platter off





 Idler wheel





 Strangely enough, after I removed the platter, the speed selector unfroze. When I plugged it in, the 45 and 78 RPM positions worked but not 33 RPM. A few more back-and-forth movements of the speed selector and 33 RPM began to work (though I haven't done a speed check). Everything now works with the platter back on...

 Is there any sort of maintenance I should do while it's open? How does the idler wheel look?


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## infinitesymphony

Correction, 33 RPM doesn't work because the wheel still isn't making contact with the bearing--it doesn't naturally want to press against it. 45 RPM works but is a bit noisy (noise coming from the tire portion), and 78 RPM works and is silent.

 Here's a video of what I'm describing: Link.


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## derekbmn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any sort of maintenance I should do while it's open? How does the idler wheel look?_

 

Hard to tell by looking at a picture. To be on the safe side remove the idler wheel and let it soak in some soapy water over night.(use dish soap). This will soften it up a bit. 

 Get yourself a can of spray on White Lithium grease, and apply it to the linkages etc. A drop of sae 30 on the idler shaft will generally help to.

 DO NOT get it on the idler wheel itself or the capstan.

 You should also make sure the inner part of the platter that the idler wheel runs on is very clean and devoid of any rubber residue.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derekbmn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hard to tell by looking at a picture. To be on the safe side remove the idler wheel and let it soak in some soapy water over night.(use dish soap). This will soften it up a bit._

 

Would Windex work as well (useful for cleaning rubber pinch rollers on tape players)?

 What's the recommended way of removing the idler wheel?


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## derekbmn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would Windex work as well (useful for cleaning rubber pinch rollers on tape players)?

 What's the recommended way of removing the idler wheel?_

 

Well keep in mind you are not just cleaning the idler wheel but trying to soften it up and the soap and water solution does work if the idler wheel hasn't hardend to much.

 Many of the idler wheels on turntables of that era are held on by small e-clips.
 I can't quite tell from your photos if that is how yours is held on.


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## infinitesymphony

Huh, I set up the turntable and now it plays perfectly... Basically all I did was remove the platter and unjam the speed selector. I guess the bulk of the "work" is over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For lubrication, I'll put a drop of light motor oil (SAE 30) below the idler wheel and motor pulley, and use some Windex on the idler wheel rubber itself.

 Now let's play Name That Cartridge:






 I've heard rumors that the stock cart on this table was a Shure M91E, but this doesn't look like the photo at CartridgeDB.

 An unrelated question about a potential upgrade: Is it possible to swap the stock RCA cables for new ones, or is it essential that the RCAs are not grounded?


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## thdaudio

hi all, 
 Just joined. As with _infinitesymphony_, I too, have just been "given a Dual 1218 turntable". Does anyone have a pdf/jpg/Word version of the manual which they could send me? it would be most appreciated. i hope to do some servicing and tweaks, Advice welcome! thanks, JR.



			
				infinitesymphony;4276073 said:
			
		

> Hey vinyl guys, I've been given a Dual / United Audio 1218 turntable for potential repair and I'm seeking advice......


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## error401

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've heard rumors that the stock cart on this table was a Shure M91E, but this doesn't look like the photo at CartridgeDB.

 An unrelated question about a potential upgrade: Is it possible to swap the stock RCA cables for new ones, or is it essential that the RCAs are not grounded?_

 

Doesn't look like the M91ED that came with my Dual 510 either. On the other hand, the construction and plastic colours are similar and that's certainly a Shure logo on it. A bit more poking at CartridgeDB and it looks like it probably is a M91ED of earlier vintage, I found a few photos there that look almost identical to your photo. The model number should be found above the Shure logo, and it looks to be obscured by the headshell on yours.

 In case it's not obvious, the headshell adapter can be removed by pressing the tonearm lift handle back, which will unlock the adapter that should drop/pull down and out easily.

 And I don't think you'd have trouble recabling for RCAs. In fact, my turntable had the ground tied to the RCAs and no ground wire, which was causing a ground loop. I nipped the jumpers connecting them and recabled and the ground problems are gone. You can go with a shielded cable too, which I found really helps when routing the signal around near my computer (for captures). You will need a ground wire, but replacing the cable is no big deal. I did find all contacts in this turntable were covered in grease that prevented solder from adhering easily (and really stank). I'd recommend cleaning and burnishing with steel wool any electrical contacts - I had similar dirty contacts on the headshell adapter as well.


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## infinitesymphony

I can't remember if I referenced it in this thread, but I started another thread on AudioKarma with more pictures and discussion. My headshell seems to be missing the VTA adjustment knob, and the cartridge is almost certainly the Shure M91ED with an aftermarket replacement stylus.


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## Doc Roc

Hey guys, I don't wanna hijack the thread, but I also have been given a dual 1218, except everything works. EXCEPT, when my dad was giving it to me, he was trying to figure out how to get the headshell off and broke the little knob on it. now the cartridge falls on the record before the needle does (because there is nothing pulling against those springs to keep it up. Just wondering if there is a way to fix that easily or if there's a way to buy a replacement headshell adapter that will fit on the 1218 arm. thanks for any help you all can give!!!


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## frowningcat

I'm having a little trouble removing the C-Clip from my own turntable. I saw the picture that was posted, but me being the technical-moron I am, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at nor what to do. Can anyone give me an in-depth explaination on how to get this stupid thing off? Thanks


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## infinitesymphony

The C-clip is the thin metal ring above the screwdriver in this photo. Push down towards the ground on the screwdriver, forcing the clip upward and away from the fixed piece of metal.


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## vintagaudio2000

Hi,
   
  The idler wheel on Dual turntables NEVER has hardness, so idler is not a problem here. The problem is only an old grease. Clean the idler wheel assembly to make sure it moves freely. You can check that - remove a platter and teke a look if idler wheel moves forth to the motor pulley and back freely when you move manually tonearm to center and back to its rest


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