# "new" Panasonic FM vs FC caps??



## Earwax

Reading old threads I find many recommendations for Panasonic FC capacitors. Now going through the digikey catalog I find mention of "new" Pana FM caps. Here's the page http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T042/0778.pdf They say, "Low impedance: 40-70% lower than FC series - High Ripple Current: 50% higher than FC series" 

 Anyone know anything about these? Are they worth trying, do you think?


----------



## Glassman

forgot to add how many % higher price


----------



## Earwax

The really suspicious part is that the FMs are_ less_ expensive than the FC, at least in the sizes I looked at.

 FC catalog page: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T042/0776.pdf
 FM: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T042/0778.pdf


----------



## Glassman

I think it's definitely worth trying, they simply can't be worse then FCs looking at their specs, you might just discovered a successor to FCs..


----------



## tangent

Some differences I see in the datasheets:

 - FM doesn't go to as low a temperature (-40C vs -55C)
 - FC has some some lower values than FM (1uF to 18uF)
 - FC has some higher values than FM (8200uF to 15000uF)
 - FM has far fewer values in each voltage range
 - FM caps are almost always available in only one case size; FC frequently offers 2 or 3 sizes for each value/tolerance type.

 The latter two are the ones most likely to cause problems, in my estimation. If you need a 120uF cap, or you need to fit a 330uF/35V cap into an 8mm diameter space, you're stuck with FC.


----------



## KTpG

I was wondering something similar regarding the Nichicon UHE vs. UPW. The UPW's cost more... but according to the specs, the UHE have a higher life rating and lower impedence. They are cheaper, too... I have some UHE's, and they seem to work very well. Any thoughts?


----------



## morsel

Panasonic FM caps pdf

Panasonic FC caps pdf


----------



## Earwax

Well, I ordered some FMs for a cmoy and they should be here Wednesday, but all I have to compare to in another cmoy is Nichicon UHEs.


----------



## Earwax

I've used these Pana FMs is a few amps now, I replaced some 470uf UPW and UHE with 680uf FMs in a cmoy and A47 and used the FMs in my Frankenstein cmoys. There's not much I can say about sound quality because I didn't have any real apples to apples comparison situation, but I certainly didn't run into anything to complain about.

 Just wondering if anyone else has tried FMs and have any comments or observations -- before I go and order a batch for a Pimeta and a Mint.


----------



## dokebi

Hi earwax, Can you post a pic of them? I'm such a slut to electronic component visuals.


----------



## Earwax

FM, in black w/ gold and red markings, should look stylish in any amp.


----------



## dokebi

Thanks..I love things with gold accents. Eww to that cap on top of it.


----------



## greyhorse

I've hear that Nichicons and some other capacitors made in Japan have better high frequency ESR characteristics than the US made Panasonics, but does anyone have any hard information on this? While quite a bit less sexy looking, now that D-K is stocking 'em, I'm interested in those Nichicons.


----------



## tangent

Panasonic is a Japanese company. I've seen nothing that says their caps aren't made in Japan.


----------



## doobooloo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* 
_Panasonic is a Japanese company. I've seen nothing that says their caps aren't made in Japan._

 

And not that where it's made should dictate the impedance to deviate from the specified values @ 100kHz in the datasheets...


----------



## CingKrab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* 
_Panasonic is a Japanese company. I've seen nothing that says their caps aren't made in Japan._

 

But the datasheet for FC and FM caps say:
 "Country of Origin

 Japan
 Malaysia
 China"

 Not like it really matters where they come from; I'm sure Panasonic has good QA.


----------



## greyhorse

Tangent,

 I just checked all 6 values of Panasonic FC and 2 values of NHG, that I had on hand. Turns out the country of origin on all of them was Malaysia. I also had a stack of 18,000uF Panasonic HA, I was planning on making an Aleph 3 out of. The country of origin on those was the USA. I must have been drooling over those big capacitors and looking at those caps a lot, because the country of origin on those was the one to stay in my mind.

 All 3 values of Nichicon PW I had on hand were from Japan. Not that the country of origin in and of themselves means that much. It's just that I remember someone on diyAudio.com saying that certain brands of Japanese capacitors had considerably better high-frequency characteristics than our much cherished FCs.

 Just to clarify: I'm interested in knowing if there's a difference in performance between Panasonic/Matsu****a vs. other specific brands. Especially Nichicons, because D-K is stocking them.


----------



## Earwax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greyhorse* 
_Tangent,

 I just checked all 6 values of Panasonic FC and 2 values of NHG, that I had on hand. Turns out the country of origin on all of them was Malaysia. I also had a stack of 18,000uF Panasonic HA, I was planning on making an Aleph 3 out of. The country of origin on those was the USA. I must have been drooling over those big capacitors and looking at those caps a lot, because the country of origin on those was the one to stay in my mind.

 All 3 values of Nichicon PW I had on hand were from Japan. Not that the country of origin in and of themselves means that much. It's just that I remember someone on diyAudio.com saying that certain brands of Japanese capacitors had considerably better high-frequency characteristics than our much cherished FCs.

 Just to clarify: I'm interested in knowing if there's a difference in performance between Panasonic/Matsu****a vs. other specific brands. Especially Nichicons, because D-K is stocking them._

 


 What's "high frequency mean?" Is that relevant to audio applications? Just a question, I'm clueless here. And are they talking about the Nichicon Muse or the UPW & UHE? 

 BTW, the bag for my FMs is marked: origin Malaysia.

 Also, just checked the datasheets, UHE seem to be rated similarly to FC, and the FM has better specs (someone crrect me if I'm reading those datasheets incorrectly)


----------

