# Windows Sonic vs Dolby Atmos & 7.1 virtualization in Creators Update



## RPGWiZaRD

I think this needs a discussion for sure, IMO it's the most noteworthy change for Windows 10 Creators Update. I'm a person with great experience in this field having experience from all these software pseudo surround configs: CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone, Dolby Atmos, THX TruStudio Pro, SBX Surround, Razer Surround.

 Since the Creators Update, there showed up some new tab for "spatial sound" where options "Windows Sonic" and "Dolby Atmos" become available as well as a checkbox for "Virtual 7.1 surround sound".

 Here's my personal findings so far:

 * Enabling these options limits you to 48kHz samplerate and 16bit bit depth and "Stereo" speaker config. Changing any of these settings will automatically disable the spatial sound settings and Windows itself adjusts to those settings when enabling them. This is something I'd personally wish was improved in the future to allow more flexibility as the sound volume I've noticed drops considerably with 48kHz vs 44.1kHz in some games (from top of my head for example Skyrim, Far Cry 3).

 * Virtual 7.1 surround sound checkbox I think is _*recommended *_to use with both options at all times, much like with similarly named setting on a SoundBlaster G5 or E5 USB soundcard, this is probably some kind of setting that allows proper multichannel processing of a game's audio and then downmixed into your stereo headphones and this affects the way soundstage and positioning is percieved. What this does is to noticeably expand soundstaging to be much larger and improved smoothness in how the audio is percieved to be moving from one side to another as well as improving the sense of depth to the soundstaging. 

*Windows Sonic:*

 Expands soundstage with noticeably clearer positioning. This isn't the same as simply using 5.1 or 7.1 speaker option in the past Windows versions in favor for stereo on a pair of stereo headphones, it clearly improves on positioning and soundstaging one step further, seems to be some HRTF tweaks of some sort (YMMV). The best thing is, it does so without affecting sound quality at any noticeable amount which is many of these "virtual surround" settings shortcomings, especially for the more sound quality concerned invidual who rather get as much positioning improvement with the least possible sound quality hit possible. If so, then this option is perfect for you.

*Dolby Atmos for headphones:*

 Compared to Windows Sonic, I can instantly say, it's not as good. What it does okay job at is to allow pinpointing of directions but it's most other aspects it falls short to Windows Sonic: the soundstage expansiveness is greatly reduced, more "closed-in"-sounding (aka. closed headphones vs open headphones effect), sounds are percieved to appearing closer to you and the depth is lacking. It perhaps biggest weakness together with the less expansive soundstaging is the accuracy of percieving distance to the sounds, it's often difficult to tell how far away the sounds are coming from. In Unreal Tournament for example I sometimes thought a rocket launcher was much closer to me than it truly was. From a sound quality standpoint it's also slightly worse, adding a bit of that typical "processed" sound you can notice with many other surround sound algorithms (SBX Surround etc) but the impact is still very subtle, it still roughly SBX Surround ~ slightly better in fact but compared to Windows Sonic which doesn't have any obvious impact, it still comes out as second when it comes to being able to process the audio as natural sounding as possible.

 If my time allows during weekend or whenever (pretty busy with my hobby of promoting newcomers producers on YouTube), I may attempt to do some more in-depth comparison by recording or using some old Demorec recording from Unreal Tournament 3 or UT2k4 (a gaming session that has been recorded so when loading up the recording I'll be able to play the exact same scene over and over again with the exact same stuff happening, making it the ideal way of comparing various sound settings). I currently own SoundBlaster G5, SoundBlaster ZxR, ASUS Essence STX II and have Realtek ALC1150 onboard chips for comparison, so if I was really keen could do some kind of comparison but we'll see, certainly won't promise anything.

 I think this added spatial sound is a huge deal for 2 reasons, one is improved positional sound for VR applications and second, the built-in surround sound into Windows means even if you get a more HiFi audio quality oriented USB Dac with only stereo output, you should be able to get decent surround sound experience and this opens up a huge amount of options for gamers. Personally I always grabbed a soundcard with 5.1/7.1 support for my computer to be able to get proper multichannel mixing for gaming. But I'd gladly have someone with stereo-only USB DACs confirm that it allows you to use the spatial sound settings also with that as I currently don't own one.


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## xH4wK (May 7, 2017)

Hey man, it would be interesting to see difference between your cards and their vss and windows spatial options
I tried Dolby Atmos and found it bad too
Got g5 myself so looking forward on your opinion and testing


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## DanPerezSax

I haven't tried Windows Sonic yet.  So far the most surprising thing for me about Atmos for headphones is how well it works.  Watching 5.1 upmixes on Netflix or just using the "surround" setting on GTA gives me a very pointed awareness of where sounds are supposed to me.  That was my experience using my over-ear, open-backed cans.  

With in-ears, I expected it to be even better due to the increased isolation and having the sounds right inside my ears, but that was not the case.  EVERYTHING sounded like it was beside or behind me, and while I could kind of tell when sounds were "supposed" to sound like they were in front of me, they just sounded like they were in my head.  Listening with your eyes closed is illuminating!

Tested with LCD-3 and JH Angie customs via Modi MB and Jotunheim.  I used my slight digital EQ with the LCD-3 and no EQ with the Angies, which is how I normally listen to each headphone.


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## FlavioWolff

nice, but if we cant choose 5.1 or 7.1 speakers most games will not output surround content, unless they give you the option (which most games dont).


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## illram (Jul 7, 2017)

I can't get this to work over USB to my NAD D3020. There is no option to enable it except for when I use optical or HDMI to another source that has my headphones. Does this only work via HDMI, optical or line-out/headphone-out?


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## Chris S

Sonic works very well and it sounds like some sort of hrtf solution. I wonder why they have started making serious effort to sound positioning after ignoring for many years.

However, with 16 bit audio selected, there is a noticeable hiss present in my headphones, absent with 24 bit. Surely this shouldn't be due to the noisefloor - perhaps some issue with the onboard DAC? Did you notice this?


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## Chris S

Turns out the thing doesn't detect the headphones properly if you boot up with them in. Go figure.


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## xivlia

hm there is atmost headphones?


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## Chris S

Hmm, good point.


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## Jazic

RPGWiZaRD said:


> SoundBlaster G5 or E5 USB soundcard, this is probably some kind of setting that allows proper multichannel processing of a game's audio and then downmixed into your stereo headphones and this affects the way soundstage and positioning is percieved. What this does is to noticeably expand soundstaging to be much larger and improved smoothness in how the audio is percieved to be moving from one side to another as well as improving the sense of depth to the soundstaging.



I have a Jotunheim and a Sound Blaster E5.

Would you suggest having a better audiophile gaming experience to use:

1.  Windows Sonic > Jotunheim > Balanced Out > Headphones

2.  Sound Blaster E5 > Line Out > Jotunheim > Balanced Out > Headphones



I think the cleaner path would be the Jotunheim and I personally don't hear any digital 'tin can' surround processing sound with Sonic that I usually get with the Dolby Atmos or even the SBX Surround on the E5.


Lastly, how far do you turn up the E5's SBX surround? I've found that anything beyond 20-30% is just overkill. 


Thanks for your opinions!


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## RPGWiZaRD (Oct 19, 2017)

I personally have no experience of using a DAC with stereo only output and that's the thing I'd gladly know whether Windows Sonic is actually able to process an audio signal as virtual channel surround despite the source might not necessarily have built-in support for multichannel audio. Technically it should be possible as it's something that is done in a software way anyway (audio is seen as multichannel when it's played and then downmixed to stereo for the source), but would be good to know for sure. If it works that way then alternative 1 is IMO the better one.

You shouldn't hear any impact to sound quality at all with Windows Sonic, it shouldn't really impact the balance at all, only affect how the soundstaging is percieved.

Personally I don't like SBX processing that much, whenever I enable it I use like 11% or so perhaps.


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## illram (Oct 19, 2017)

I have tested Windows Sonic on PC and Xbox and have both an X7 and an E5 that I have tested it against. In sum, unless a game supports Sonic, which I believe is a 3D audio engine as oppozed to a virtualized channel based surround systen (like SBX) Sonic is inferior to SBX for positioning.

Whether on PC or console, Sonic only virtualizes a stereo source, which makes positional accuracy actually more confusing and sometimes just plain wrong. It basically is adding reverb and allowing a signal to traverse a 2D plane smoothly from left to right or vice versa rather than jumping from left to right channel as some sounds might if left on normal stereo mode. To have true 3D audio with Windows Sonic, the game has to support it natively. Like how Overwatch has an Atmos mode. I am unaware of anyone incorporating Sonic into their audio engine yet. To my ears turning on "7.1" in the Sonic options does nothing.

The E5 will appear as a 5.1 or 7.1 channel system to windows and will actually virtualize discrete channels so you will get more accurate positioning. I must not be a good person to ask about audio quality besides positional accuracy, because for gaming and positional accuracy purposes I turn it up to 100% surround, and I must be used to it because it sounds fine to me. Obviously I don't listen to music with any of that crap on though.


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## Glasofruix

Sonic and atmos do nothing for games on windows. They should act like virtual surround but they don't, mainly because modern games rely on windows' speaker settings and when they see stereo, they output stereo.


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## RPGWiZaRD (Oct 20, 2017)

Glasofruix said:


> Sonic and atmos do nothing for games on windows. They should act like virtual surround but they don't, mainly because modern games rely on windows' speaker settings and when they see stereo, they output stereo.



I would agree with this but my ears tells different making me believe Microsoft is only showing in the GUI as stereo setting but behind the scenes it would be using 7.1 processing when Sonic + virtual 7.1 is enabled and it says stereo mostly to not confuse the casuals who think 7.1 is only for 7.1 speakers or 7.1 headsets. I have no proof of this obviously but I know it surely doesn't sound as bad positioning wise as using stereo inside Windows in several games.

There's one simple way to demo it though but I haven't gotten around to it yet, record for example an Unreal Tournament play with the built in demorec functionality and playback the recorded game session (which is replayed inside the game as normal) with the different settings and cut together some short 5 sec clips of an incoming rocket for example with the various settings and see how it sounds like that's probably the most accurate way of comparing it as it's exactly like playing the game with the exact same positioning of sounds etc for comparison.


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## Glasofruix

There's a video presentation of the tech behind sonic studio where they explain that there's supposed to be a "handshake" between sonic studio and the game where it should present itself as a surround output and thus force games to use multichannel audio, but it doesn't happen (at least not with non UWP games as far as i know). Here https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GDC/GDC-2017/GDC2017-002

Besides that, when you manage to force 7.1 sonic studio works fine as virtual surround. Movies work fine, some games that allow you to change audio output also work (but those are rare).


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## RPGWiZaRD (Oct 20, 2017)

Even using 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setting (not windows sonic) changes positioning on soundcards with 5.1/7.1 support so I believe there's more to it than that presentation. And that also happens with music which is stereo if anything, my point is stereo material somehow gets affected by whatever processing Windows does.

The problem is the average joe notices the differences SBX, Dolby Atmos etc does because it also affects sound quality/EQ balance quite a lot so if there's only a subtle change to how soundstaging is percieved they are not "registering" the change between exit/starting game up again but probably would spot a subtle change in a direct comparision with my mentioned 5 sec clip comparison from some game played after each other. More experienced headphone listeners should spot the difference more easily that are used to listen to subtle changes in sound.

The 7.1/5.1 thing doesn't change frequency response at all which makes it more subtle in nature, only the "in-your-head" soundstage gets more "around-your-head".

EDIT: Important thing to note, we're talking DirectSound output here, that's where processing seem to happen, most games rely on that still but not all and if you listen with WASAPI in foobar 5.1 or 7.1 won't make any change to how music sounds like but with DirectSound, music also sounds more out-of-the-head as long as the windows control panel doesn't have "disable enhancements" checked which is why this is something which easily goes unnoticed in a forum like this where typically that's settings that are used by most people due to striving to having as "unprocessed" sound as possible.


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## galneon

Done anymore testing, RPGWiZaRD? Everything illram said rings true to me, and I also have quite a bit of experience with this (enough to wish every game used OpenAL in order to support Rapture3D HRTF ), but you were very specific and convinced regarding positioning versus SBX in the OP.

Is it possible that since this is an MS feature, it's masquerading to all programs, even those without explicit Sonic support, as 5.1 or 7.1 despite the control panel showing the device set to stereo? I certainly hope so as I would love to uninstall all Creative software from my system, with the exception of ALchemy. If MS, one of the two companies most responsible for setting back positional audio (by giving us XAudio), actually added a feature to Windows 10 which liberated me from the other company that set back positional audio (Creative, the killers of A3D), I would almost be pleased enough to forgive them.


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## Avean

I've yet to play a game that supports Windows Sonic. It just sounds like stereo to me while Dolby Atmos for Headphones seems to be supported no matter what and works very great i feel.


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## YJX94

RPGWiZaRD said:


> Even using 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setting (not windows sonic) changes positioning on soundcards with 5.1/7.1 support so I believe there's more to it than that presentation. And that also happens with music which is stereo if anything, my point is stereo material somehow gets affected by whatever processing Windows does.
> 
> The problem is the average joe notices the differences SBX, Dolby Atmos etc does because it also affects sound quality/EQ balance quite a lot so if there's only a subtle change to how soundstaging is percieved they are not "registering" the change between exit/starting game up again but probably would spot a subtle change in a direct comparision with my mentioned 5 sec clip comparison from some game played after each other. More experienced headphone listeners should spot the difference more easily that are used to listen to subtle changes in sound.
> 
> ...


Hmm I've never been a fan of VSS but I might try out Windows Sonic and see what it's like.  Just one question, obviously when using headphones you have to set them to Stereo configuration in the Windows Sound Manager and then enable Windows Sonic for headphones and tick the 7.1 box, but what about in games?

It should stay at Stereo for headphones in Windows universally but games have lots of options such as Stereo, Speakers, 7.1 Speakers, Headphones and etc...you use Stereo in Windows universally but which do you use in the game itself?


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## RPGWiZaRD (Nov 10, 2017)

YJX94 said:


> Hmm I've never been a fan of VSS but I might try out Windows Sonic and see what it's like.  Just one question, obviously when using headphones you have to set them to Stereo configuration in the Windows Sound Manager and then enable Windows Sonic for headphones and tick the 7.1 box, but what about in games?
> 
> It should stay at Stereo for headphones in Windows universally but games have lots of options such as Stereo, Speakers, 7.1 Speakers, Headphones and etc...you use Stereo in Windows universally but which do you use in the game itself?



With Windows Sonic, it automatically forces speaker settings to Stereo in windows and Windows Sonic is disabled if you pretty much touch any of the windows audio settings. Without Windows Sonic I prefer 5.1 speakers in Windows, I'm not entirely sure whichever I prefer, 5.1 speakers in windows or Windows Sonic with virtual 7.1 enabled, it varies slightly from game to game. I think 5.1 mixing generally works better for headphones, 7.1 mixing gets too stacked for such a limited space inside the headphone cup resulting in a more diffuse positioning I think.

As for settings ingame, most of the games I play don't allow changing settings and just use DirectSound library and mixes audio based on your windows speaker config. I'm especially familiar with games that rely on that which is majority of games statistically. I did play some Battlefield once for quite a few years ago but I cannot remember which of the settings were my preferred one anymore.


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## YJX94

RPGWiZaRD said:


> With Windows Sonic, it automatically forces speaker settings to Stereo in windows and Windows Sonic is disabled if you pretty much touch any of the windows audio settings. Without Windows Sonic I prefer 5.1 speakers in Windows, I'm not entirely sure whichever I prefer, 5.1 speakers in windows or Windows Sonic with virtual 7.1 enabled, it varies slightly from game to game. I think 5.1 mixing generally works better for headphones, 7.1 mixing gets too stacked for such a limited space inside the headphone cup resulting in a more diffuse positioning I think.
> 
> As for settings ingame, most of the games I play don't allow changing settings and just use DirectSound library and mixes audio based on your windows speaker config. I'm especially familiar with games that rely on that which is majority of games statistically. I did play some Battlefield once for quite a few years ago but I cannot remember which of the settings were my preferred one anymore.


I see.

For a game like Battlefield 1 it has options for Speakers and Headphones and then a sub-option for those for Stereo and Surround, with Windows Sonic and 7.1 enabled I'm not really sure which one to use.


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## Glasofruix

Yeah, but it doesn't work in BF1 it still outputs stereo.


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## illram

If the game has its own surround headphone setting you would want to turn Sonic (or any other VSS) off.


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## galneon

You ignored my post, RPGWiZaRD, but unless Windows Sonic is enabling some kind of behind-the-scenes masquerading, I'm just not seeing how it's possibly giving you accurate positioning if it isn't taking data from more than two discrete channels so long as speaker settings are set to Stereo/Headphones and the game itself, as most games do, simply follows the speaker settings.

There's a reason that SBX Studio relies on two separate devices: a virtual device for headphones (which ultimately is responsible for the output you hear), and a real device set to 5.1 for fooling games into providing discrete channels to downsample into convincing HRTF-tinted stereo audio. Microsoft could ostensibly do some kind of masquerading without employing the two device approach since it's _their_ operating system, but you're the only one saying Windows Sonic actually works for games which do not explicitly support Windows Sonic.

I don't want to bother confirming the inefficacy myself because it requires annoying group policy edits (which I later have to undo) for me to run Metro apps on the built-in administrator account, but if one other person says 'yes, Windows Sonic actually works really well and provides convincing positional audio, even on games that don't explicitly support it,' I'll give it a shot.


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## illram

Don't bother, it doesn't.


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## killeraxemannic

If you want to be sure you are truly tricking a game into outputting all channels for virtual surround you could use Razer's surround software. It's got a free and a pay version but the free one works fine. It installs itself in windows as a 7.1 audio device so it for sure makes the games switch to surround. It's not bad at all. SBX is better but not by much.


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## Jiv_au

I've had a go at Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, and even Razer.
Each of them appear to preform HRTF to varying degrees, but they all miss the other aspects of virtual surround sound - reflection/reverberation and diffusion.

Personally I have settled for Spatial Sound Card (SSC), which offers that reflection as if you're in a studio or music hall.
I think this is close to the hardware solution such as the Sennheiser GSX 1000, albeit not as good as that.

The SSC appears as a 5.1 or 7.1 device, to which games interfaces without any config change.
The down side is it causes a slight distortion in the sound.


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## galneon

Jiv_au said:


> I've had a go at Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, and even Razer.
> Each of them appear to preform HRTF to varying degrees, but they all miss the other aspects of virtual surround sound - reflection/reverberation and diffusion.
> 
> Personally I have settled for Spatial Sound Card (SSC), which offers that reflection as if you're in a studio or music hall.
> ...



What you describe as missing from solutions other than Spatial Sound Card are not attractive things for most gamers. Those are artifacts of an imperfect acoustic environment (the ideal home theater room has minimal reverb/reflection and near-perfect diffusion--the same goes for the micro-chamber that is the space between your ears and headphones). The game engine itself (if it supports it) should handle things like reverb/reflection as only the game knows if e.g. the room your character is in is an anechoic chamber, or a large arena without acoustic dampening. If the engine doesn't support it, I'd prefer to go without reverb than have a blanket effect applied which has nothing to do with the in-game environment.

Using SSC when listening to studio-recorded music while using SSC to emulate the properties of a concert hall is one thing, but having this effect coloring the audio in a blanket manner for an entire game full of varying acoustic environments is not what most people would consider a positive thing. Those additional options are missing from many other gaming-oriented solutions for good reason.

That said, I'm sure SSC has a neutral setting which doesn't add its own reverb.


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## Jiv_au

galneon said:


> What you describe as missing from solutions other than Spatial Sound Card are not attractive things for most gamers.



All these are imperfect solutions, each attempting to replicating real sound, and falling short.
In the worst case for some people the average HRTF doesn't work for them. Because those HRTF is literally taking the average of what people hear, and everyone hears differently.

It then comes down to personal preference on which one suites one's own needs best.
I put priority on reflection because I find it more comfortable to have the sound seemingly outside of my head, as opposed to being in my head when using stereo mode in most games, or even the Sonic or Atmos. As you've pointed out, this does cause inconsistency between what is heard versus the in-game environment but for me I'd rather have it blanket everything, as oppose to do without.

All I can say is SSC works for me personally more than Sonic or Atmos - for the time being. It's actually the enjoyment of the sound, even if it sounds unrealistic at times.
But I'm interested to see how Dolby Atmos will improve as games adopt this technology and utilise audio 'objects' to maximum effect.


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## Avean

I think the Dolby Atmos for Headphones are working perfectly. And the games dont need to support it. It just emulates it. I can clearly hear objects above and under me.


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## Diji1 (Dec 10, 2017)

Avean said:


> I think the Dolby Atmos for Headphones are working perfectly. And the games dont need to support it. It just emulates it. I can clearly hear objects above and under me.



This is interesting to me - which games have you used it on?

The only experience I have of Dolby Atmos for Headphones is on Overwatch (which uses an in-game Dolby Atmos for Headphones solution rather than the "native" Windows 10 solution) - and it is AWESOME.  Easily the best surround sound I've used in a game, period.  There is no ambiguity about direction, distance, above/below - it's amazing.

However I have read some rather bad things about results of people using it Dolby Atmos for Headphones in Windows 10 for gaming.  Perhaps it's just people setting crap up wrong as often happens with surround sound ... in theory it should do roughly what it does in Overwatch to any game provided the game has multi-channel surround sound. 

I've read some much better things about using it for Dolby Atmos music albums - that is also meant to be quite breathe takingly good.

I'm on the edge of paying up to have it myself on Windows 10 and play around with it although I have a discrete soundcard.


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## Jiv_au (Dec 11, 2017)

Diji1 said:


> I'm on the edge of paying up to have it myself on Windows 10 and play around with it although I have a discrete soundcard.



If you're keen and willing you may be able to achieve similar sound experience by following this instruction and using free software:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...e_every_headphone_surround_virtualization_on/

It's a bit fiddly to setup, but once you have got it going it may surprise you.
You can then try DA for HP or WinSonic or CMSS-3D or SBX or GSX1000 or OOYH in any of your games that support 5.1 and/or 7.1


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## Avean

Diji1 said:


> This is interesting to me - which games have you used it on?
> 
> The only experience I have of Dolby Atmos for Headphones is on Overwatch (which uses an in-game Dolby Atmos for Headphones solution rather than the "native" Windows 10 solution) - and it is AWESOME.  Easily the best surround sound I've used in a game, period.  There is no ambiguity about direction, distance, above/below - it's amazing.
> 
> ...



PlayerUnknowns Battlegrounds, Battlefield 1 and Battlefront 2. Whenever i choose Dolby Atmos for Headphones, my soundcard gets put to 2 channel mode. But ingame i can clearly hear sound going all around me. 
But with Windows Sonic i cannot get it to work....it only produces stereo sound for whatever reason.


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## davidland

sounds cool


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## YJX94

Avean said:


> PlayerUnknowns Battlegrounds, Battlefield 1 and Battlefront 2. Whenever i choose Dolby Atmos for Headphones, my soundcard gets put to 2 channel mode. But ingame i can clearly hear sound going all around me.
> But with Windows Sonic i cannot get it to work....it only produces stereo sound for whatever reason.


IIRC Windows Sonic only works when it's given a surround signal.  So if you set the audio to stereo in-game then it won't work, the source of the audio must be put in surround/5.1/7.1 mode for Sonic to work.  What it does is, it takes that surround signal and down mixes it to stereo using virtualisation.  Listen to music on YouTube with Windows Sonic on and off, you'll notice there's no difference because Sonic isn't getting a stereo signal from YouTube since music on YouTube is only 2 channel stereo.


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## Avean (Dec 19, 2017)

Anyone noticed any problems with the latest update in Windows 10 ? Fall Creators Update. Came yesterday for me and for me spatial audio have changed. For me both Sonic and Dolby is suddenly Stereo now. Dolby is stereo with some reverb effects, but not the same surround i was used to. Very strange.

Edit: After more testing it seems to work more as intended now i guess. Before even if games or apps did not support dolby atmos you could still clearly hear some emulated surround. Now it seems to be stereo only in games like PUBG but if content support it you have really amazing surround. 

Wish microsoft could be more open what they changed....


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## YJX94 (Dec 19, 2017)

Avean said:


> Anyone noticed any problems with the latest update in Windows 10 ? Fall Creators Update. Came yesterday for me and for me spatial audio have changed. For me both Sonic and Dolby is suddenly Stereo now. Dolby is stereo with some reverb effects, but not the same surround i was used to. Very strange.
> 
> Edit: After more testing it seems to work more as intended now i guess. Before even if games or apps did not support dolby atmos you could still clearly hear some emulated surround. Now it seems to be stereo only in games like PUBG but if content support it you have really amazing surround.
> 
> Wish microsoft could be more open what they changed....


What exactly is the issue you're experiencing?

Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos force your Windows speaker settings to stereo, if you set your Window speakers settings to anything other than stereo it will _*disable *_Sonic and Atmos.  In your game audio settings you must set it to surround sound, depending on the game itself there may be options for surround speakers, 5.1, 7.1 etc.

Sonic and Atmos force stereo in Windows because they take a surround signal from a game and down mix it to stereo, that is how VSS DSPs work.

Take MW2 for example, it has 4 speaker settings, Mono, Stereo, 4 Speakers, 5.1 Speakers.  I tested it with Windows Sonic, with Sonic off it sounded best in Stereo on my headphones, setting it to 5.1 speakers made everything too quiet.  I then turned on Sonic and Stereo mode sounded the exact same but now 5.1 speakers sounded much louder and I noticed that it expanded the sound stage and gave me more positional info.  I've tested this in multiple games that have surround settings and they all work the same way.  It is proof that with Sonic and Atmos on, if the game is set to Stereo mode then it will not work, the game must be set to surround mode if it has the option otherwise just keep it on Stereo and Sonic/Atmos won't affect it in any way since it's a Stereo signal.


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## Avean (Dec 19, 2017)

YJX94 said:


> What exactly is the issue you're experiencing?
> 
> Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos force your Windows speaker settings to stereo, if you set your Window speakers settings to anything other than stereo it will _*disable *_Sonic and Atmos.  In your game audio settings you must set it to surround sound, depending on the game itself there may be options for surround speakers, 5.1, 7.1 etc.
> 
> ...



Yeah that i know but something has definetely changed since that update. Before PUBG gave virtual surrround with Dolby Atmos for Headphones, now it doesnt, only stereo, same with Sonic. No update to the game and it started right after the Win10 update. But maybe its nothing, not tested other games and Atmos demos do work so.

Edit: Sea of Thieves alpha is working perfectly with Atmos so maybe its just PUBG afterall.


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## YJX94

Avean said:


> Yeah that i know but something has definetely changed since that update. Before PUBG gave virtual surrround with Dolby Atmos for Headphones, now it doesnt, only stereo, same with Sonic. No update to the game and it started right after the Win10 update. But maybe its nothing, not tested other games and Atmos demos do work so.
> 
> Edit: Sea of Thieves alpha is working perfectly with Atmos so maybe its just PUBG afterall.


Well perhaps it is PUBG that's at fault then considering the game is still in early preview.  EVERY game I've tested Sonic and Atmos with that has surround audio settings has worked except for MW2 with Atmos for reasons I don't know but it works perfectly fine with Sonic.


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## Avean

YJX94 said:


> Well perhaps it is PUBG that's at fault then considering the game is still in early preview.  EVERY game I've tested Sonic and Atmos with that has surround audio settings has worked except for MW2 with Atmos for reasons I don't know but it works perfectly fine with Sonic.


Yeah maybe, im getting really confused. I tried in several games now and definetely Sonic and Atmos do something...the sound is very different. But for the better? Need more testing. I feel there is little difference between Sonic and Atmos, Sonic is maybe more dynamic but its nothing like a Atmos demo so the virtual surround it does for a game that dont have Atmos support is probably limited. 

But there is a huge difference for me going back to my old Dolby Headphone on my soundcard and selecting 8 channels. That really brings out some atmospheric sound that i feel is better, i need to try out more games to be sure. I think change in sound is enough for people to think the sound is better. Like ive played with Dolby Headphone for many years. Then Microsoft introduces Spatial Sound and there was a huge difference, so been using that since release. But now going back to old Dolby Headphone i feel that is truly the best option, maybe cause its hardware driven, its designed for use with my soundcard.


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## YJX94

Avean said:


> Yeah maybe, im getting really confused. I tried in several games now and definetely Sonic and Atmos do something...the sound is very different. But for the better? Need more testing. I feel there is little difference between Sonic and Atmos, Sonic is maybe more dynamic but its nothing like a Atmos demo so the virtual surround it does for a game that dont have Atmos support is probably limited.
> 
> But there is a huge difference for me going back to my old Dolby Headphone on my soundcard and selecting 8 channels. That really brings out some atmospheric sound that i feel is better, i need to try out more games to be sure. I think change in sound is enough for people to think the sound is better. Like ive played with Dolby Headphone for many years. Then Microsoft introduces Spatial Sound and there was a huge difference, so been using that since release. But now going back to old Dolby Headphone i feel that is truly the best option, maybe cause its hardware driven, its designed for use with my soundcard.


Sonic is actually 100% compatible with Atmos enabled content, you don't even need Atmos to use Atmos enabled content.  If you've got the Dolby Access app watch the demos with both Sonic and Atmos, there is actually no difference.


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## mindbomb

I feel like by now someone should have come up with a hack to get a 7.1 default format forced with windows sonic.


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## Avean

YJX94 said:


> Sonic is actually 100% compatible with Atmos enabled content, you don't even need Atmos to use Atmos enabled content.  If you've got the Dolby Access app watch the demos with both Sonic and Atmos, there is actually no difference.



That is nice but i have yet to hear a game have THAT kind of surround like in the Atmos demos. The demos are amazing. Overwatch have Atmos enabled in-game and that is very good. But i feel Atmos for Headphones and Sonic is just mediocre at best when there is no atmos content like in most games.


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## Ted23 (Dec 20, 2017)

Avean said:


> That is nice but i have yet to hear a game have THAT kind of surround like in the Atmos demos. The demos are amazing. Overwatch have Atmos enabled in-game and that is very good. But i feel Atmos for Headphones and Sonic is just mediocre at best when there is no atmos content like in most games.



Yes this is simply because most games aren't made to have surround sound. Very few are updated for it although if you watch Microsoft and Dolby's presentation on it they claim it isn't much of a change yet the developers have to go back and do it for any changes to be noticeable.

What people here are telling you is that if the game doesn't have a surround sound option in its menu you're getting stereo sound because Atmos/Sonic won't force a 7.1.4 sound if the game itself isn't encoded for it. They can present it to you like in the demos but they don't create the content like some of the other programs which will try to do that. In this case the developer has to allow 3D sound by making Spatial changes and allowing a y-vertex positionally so you can hear the "atmos" above you effect, and if they don't (like most haven't) you'd get stereo.

Here you can see the conference where they explain most of this:

https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GDC/GDC-2017/GDC2017-002


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## Avean

Ted23 said:


> Yes this is simply because most games aren't made to have surround sound. Very few are updated for it although if you watch Microsoft and Dolby's presentation on it they claim it isn't much of a change yet the developers have to go back and do it for any changes to be noticeable.
> 
> What people here are telling you is that if the game doesn't have a surround sound option in its menu you're getting stereo sound because Atmos/Sonic won't force a 7.1.4 sound if the game itself isn't encoded for it. They can present it to you like in the demos but they don't create the content like some of the other programs which will try to do that. In this case the developer has to allow 3D sound by making Spatial changes and allowing a y-vertex positionally so you can hear the "atmos" above you effect, and if they don't (like most haven't) you'd get stereo.
> 
> ...



Yeah this is must be what is happening .But i thought there was going to be a hidden handshake so even when presented as a stereo device it should handshake and threat it like surround. But from experience this cant be happening. 
So for games that dont have surround i will just use my Dolby Headphone and use Sonic or Atmos for headphone if surround can be enabled through the game.


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## YJX94

mindbomb said:


> I feel like by now someone should have come up with a hack to get a 7.1 default format forced with windows sonic.


Yeah that would be good


Ted23 said:


> Yes this is simply because most games aren't made to have surround sound. Very few are updated for it although if you watch Microsoft and Dolby's presentation on it they claim it isn't much of a change yet the developers have to go back and do it for any changes to be noticeable.
> 
> What people here are telling you is that if the game doesn't have a surround sound option in its menu you're getting stereo sound because Atmos/Sonic won't force a 7.1.4 sound if the game itself isn't encoded for it. They can present it to you like in the demos but they don't create the content like some of the other programs which will try to do that. In this case the developer has to allow 3D sound by making Spatial changes and allowing a y-vertex positionally so you can hear the "atmos" above you effect, and if they don't (like most haven't) you'd get stereo.
> 
> ...


Atmos doesn't seem to be working in Modern Warfare 2, it works in every other game except MW2.  When I use Sonic and set MW2 to 5.1 speakers then I can clearly hear the difference but when using Atmos and setting MW2 to 5.1 speakers it sounds the same as using no Spatial Sound and MW2 set to Stereo.


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## Avean

YJX94 said:


> Yeah that would be good
> 
> Atmos doesn't seem to be working in Modern Warfare 2, it works in every other game except MW2.  When I use Sonic and set MW2 to 5.1 speakers then I can clearly hear the difference but when using Atmos and setting MW2 to 5.1 speakers it sounds the same as using no Spatial Sound and MW2 set to Stereo.



hmm thats not good especially considering you have to pay for Atmos for Headphones. Ive tested so many games now and very few actually work. 
There is so many placebos though. Heard someone so impressed with Atmos for R6: Siege but that game dont support forcing surround so its just stereo if you do Atmos for Headphones.

Really thought it would work if you forced surround or maybe its an issue with MW2 dunno....


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## YJX94

Avean said:


> hmm thats not good especially considering you have to pay for Atmos for Headphones. Ive tested so many games now and very few actually work.
> There is so many placebos though. Heard someone so impressed with Atmos for R6: Siege but that game dont support forcing surround so its just stereo if you do Atmos for Headphones.
> 
> Really thought it would work if you forced surround or maybe its an issue with MW2 dunno....


I've been retesting this and have been listening a lot more critically in MW2 and have realised that Atmos definitely does work in MW2 in 5.1 mode, it's just that Windows Sonic makes it sound a lot more tinny but Atmos keeps the sound quality the same as Stereo but improves positional accuracy a lot more.

And it's not really the paying for Atmos that's the issue, if the game just flat out doesn't support surround audio then even the free Windows Sonic is useless.


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## Avean

YJX94 said:


> I've been retesting this and have been listening a lot more critically in MW2 and have realised that Atmos definitely does work in MW2 in 5.1 mode, it's just that Windows Sonic makes it sound a lot more tinny but Atmos keeps the sound quality the same as Stereo but improves positional accuracy a lot more.
> 
> And it's not really the paying for Atmos that's the issue, if the game just flat out doesn't support surround audio then even the free Windows Sonic is useless.



Actually had to install MW2 to try myself considering its such an old game and yeah, Atmos for Headphones does work when setting 5.1 there. But in Battlefront 2 which is brand new? Doesnt work..... damn strange. I guess Battlefront 2 implement it in another way even if you can select 5.1. They are calling it "5.1 and 7.1 Mix".


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## YJX94

Avean said:


> Actually had to install MW2 to try myself considering its such an old game and yeah, Atmos for Headphones does work when setting 5.1 there. But in Battlefront 2 which is brand new? Doesnt work..... damn strange. I guess Battlefront 2 implement it in another way even if you can select 5.1. They are calling it "5.1 and 7.1 Mix".


Yeah for Battlefront they have 2 modes which are Enhanced Stereo and the 5.1/7.1 mix.  Enhanced Stereo is basically it's own VSS in-game down mixed to Stereo whereas 5.1/7.1 mix has no software implementations in-game and just assumes you have 5.1/7.1 speakers or your own VSS software in Windows such as Sonic or Atmos.

Basically if you use Enhanced Stereo then Sonic, Atmos and any other VSS must be turned off otherwise you get double VSS.  If you use the 5.1/7.1 mix then you must use VSS when using headphones.

That may be the cause of why you say it doesn't work, unlike most games the Stereo mode in Battlefront is already down mixing an in-game VSS to Stereo, I'd assume setting it to 5.1/7.1 mix and using your own VSS would give the same results.


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## Avean

YJX94 said:


> Yeah for Battlefront they have 2 modes which are Enhanced Stereo and the 5.1/7.1 mix.  Enhanced Stereo is basically it's own VSS in-game down mixed to Stereo whereas 5.1/7.1 mix has no software implementations in-game and just assumes you have 5.1/7.1 speakers or your own VSS software in Windows such as Sonic or Atmos.
> 
> Basically if you use Enhanced Stereo then Sonic, Atmos and any other VSS must be turned off otherwise you get double VSS.  If you use the 5.1/7.1 mix then you must use VSS when using headphones.
> 
> That may be the cause of why you say it doesn't work, unlike most games the Stereo mode in Battlefront is already down mixing an in-game VSS to Stereo, I'd assume setting it to 5.1/7.1 mix and using your own VSS would give the same results.



But it was used with 5.1 and 7.1 Mix selected. Dolby Headphone and Razer Surround all work but not Dolby Atmos for Headphones. I think its not a normal VSS anymore, ive not seen it work in any games except the very old MW2 and Overwatch which have it implemented specificly.


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## Avean

Tested more with Battlefield 1 where you can select surround and to me Atmos and Sonic seemed like normal stereo where sounds from left only came in your left ear. 
But whats more interesting, when i forced stereo it sounded more like surround to me. Sounds played all around me instead of only left or right. So maybe BF1 have theyre own virtual surround built-in?


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## RPGWiZaRD (Dec 26, 2017)

Avean said:


> Tested more with Battlefield 1 where you can select surround and to me Atmos and Sonic seemed like normal stereo where sounds from left only came in your left ear.
> But whats more interesting, when i forced stereo it sounded more like surround to me. Sounds played all around me instead of only left or right. So maybe BF1 have theyre own virtual surround built-in?



Very likely I'd say, these kind of solutions doesn't tend to work well with games who use their own kind of processings like Battlefield series.

I keep thinking pure standard DirectSound output for games is what it typically tends to work best with.


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## mindbomb

Remember that binaural audio is meant for headphone users specifically, and would be broken for speaker users. So the game would probably have clearly labeled audio options if it's going to include binaural audio at all. With bf1, I would check to make sure that what is suspected to be a binaural option doesn't just sound exactly like the regular stereo option for speakers.


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## YJX94

Avean said:


> But it was used with 5.1 and 7.1 Mix selected. Dolby Headphone and Razer Surround all work but not Dolby Atmos for Headphones. I think its not a normal VSS anymore, ive not seen it work in any games except the very old MW2 and Overwatch which have it implemented specificly.


Oh I thought you misunderstood how it worked.  Well I don't use Sonic or Atmos for Battlefield or Battlefront because these games already down mix a surround signal to stereo with their in-game stereo mode.  I'd take a properly configured and amazingly well working stereo mode over VSS any day.


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## mindbomb (Dec 26, 2017)

YJX94 said:


> Oh I thought you misunderstood how it worked.  Well I don't use Sonic or Atmos for Battlefield or Battlefront because these games already down mix a surround signal to stereo with their in-game stereo mode.  I'd take a properly configured and amazingly well working stereo mode over VSS any day.



are you sure that this is a downmix with hrtf specifically for headphone users? meaning it actually sounds different than the standard stereo settings meant for speaker users? Because normally the stereo format itself is not capable of good directional audio, and having better input to the mixer won't fix that. The hrtf part is key.


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## YJX94

mindbomb said:


> are you sure that this is a downmix with hrtf specifically for headphone users? meaning it actually sounds different than the standard stereo settings meant for speaker users? Because normally the stereo format itself is not capable of good directional audio, and having better input to the mixer won't fix that. The hrtf part is key.


Yes.  On Battlefront specifically there is no Stereo mode, instead it is called Enhanced Stereo and there is a description for it which says that it folds down the surround mix to stereo.


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## YJX94

Also on Battlefront and Battlefield I advise against using the Headphone mode and use the Speakers mode, it sounds like it doesn't make sense because the Headphone mode is usually best with Headphones since it's a binaural mix but in Battlefield and Battlefront it works differently.

As described by DICE's audio guys, the audio settings in Battlefront and Battlefield simply adjust the dynamic range and that's it.  If you set Battlefield 1 to Large Speakers and Stereo and use headphones that doesn't mean you'll be getting non-binaural audio, with Large Speakers you'll simply be getting more dynamic range so basically the largest difference between the loudest and quietest sounds.

In Battlefront when you select the Headphones option the description states that high quality headphones users may prefer the Wide setting, the description for the Wide setting states that it's for home theatre and home cinema systems but again all it does is give you better dynamic range.


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## mindbomb (Dec 26, 2017)

YJX94 said:


> Yes.  On Battlefront specifically there is no Stereo mode, instead it is called Enhanced Stereo and there is a description for it which says that it folds down the surround mix to stereo.


you can downmix surround sound to stereo, that is not unusual, and it is needed in some cases to make sure sounds aren't missing. However, to have good directional audio on headphones, you have to do a downmix with hrtf. This is not compatible with speakers (only with headphones), so I'm sorta questioning how it could be the only stereo option. It seems to me more likely that they just completely omitted a binaural option.

In contrast, overwatch's dolby atmos for headphones option is clearly labeled that it is for headphones, and even gives you a warning about incompatibility with concurrent DSPs.


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## Glasofruix

That's the big problem with battlefield series, the audio options are not clearly labelled and you have to basically guess which option enables what. I've managed to force BF4 to output in surround through .ini tinkering (that way every vss solution works as it should) but i've never managed to accomplish the same in battlefront or in more recent BF titles, so i've abandonned the idea. Dolby atmos (and windows sonic for that matter) are pretty useless right now as long as games only bother with the speaker setup to decide whether to output surround or not.


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## illram

Tried Infinite Warfare on the Xbox tonight with Windows Sonic and it actually worked. Decent surround cues. It did not work before, they must have patched something (either the game or MS). I know this is the computer forum but, evidence this is being worked on at least.


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## BearMonster

Interesting you say that i was playing bf4 with window sonic on and i swear it was working could be placebo, as i left the audio settings on from when i normally use my gsx 1000.

I wonder if dolby atmos headphone is working.


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## BearMonster (Jan 13, 2018)

Played around with Dolby Atmos headphones, still useless outside games not supported by atmos. I have notice one thing which is atmos adds it's effect while being subtle. Windows sonic headphonse however just sounds like a echo chamber but somehow has slightly better positionals sounds without atmos subtle terrible midbass punch.


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## bestazy

illram said:


> Tried Infinite Warfare on the Xbox tonight with Windows Sonic and it actually worked. Decent surround cues. It did not work before, they must have patched something (either the game or MS). I know this is the computer forum but, evidence this is being worked on at least.


Hey,This is very interesting. And how to patch it?
At me for some reason all perfectly works in game Titanalfal 2.
But not for COD.It depends on the version?
Thanks in advance.
best regards Bestazy.


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## illram

I have no idea. I just tried it one night and it magically worked. I assumed either MS or Infinity Ward did something to fix it.

I am using it over optical out, not sure that matters.


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## domino584

I just gave this a shot and it really helped in games with a rather poor sound engine.  

I read here that it limited you to 16-bit 48kHz, but my windows settings does say 24-bit 192kHz.  Have they updated since or?  I do notice a significant difference.  Unless this may also be an effect of enabling surround sound as an enhancement as well?


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## masterkaj

I'm a little confused.  I remember when I first tried Dolby Atmos for Headphones last summer it was immediately obvious it was doing some processing, even with 2ch music from iTunes.  However, now I cannot tell if it's enabled or disabled with 2ch sources.  Did they fix it so it just doesn't work when using stereo sources?  You need to select 5.1 or 7.1 in the actual game for it to work?  

The only way I can tell a difference is using the Dolby Access app and watching some of the demo videos.


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## ShampooCA

masterkaj said:


> I'm a little confused.  I remember when I first tried Dolby Atmos for Headphones last summer it was immediately obvious it was doing some processing, even with 2ch music from iTunes.  However, now I cannot tell if it's enabled or disabled with 2ch sources.  Did they fix it so it just doesn't work when using stereo sources?  You need to select 5.1 or 7.1 in the actual game for it to work?
> 
> The only way I can tell a difference is using the Dolby Access app and watching some of the demo videos.


Bringing back an old post from the grave, but yes, I've played BFV with this setting on and it did help with the soundstage and location tracking.
I found that BFVs footsteps etc. impossible to track direction, but with this on and my Philips X2 headphones I have an easier time.
Takes me back to the Counterstrike beta days where you could track them very well.


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## YJX94

ShampooCA said:


> Bringing back an old post from the grave, but yes, I've played BFV with this setting on and it did help with the soundstage and location tracking.
> I found that BFVs footsteps etc. impossible to track direction, but with this on and my Philips X2 headphones I have an easier time.
> Takes me back to the Counterstrike beta days where you could track them very well.


I've actually been using DTS Sound Unbound with DTS Headphone:X for Spatial Audio in Windows and I think it is the best out of the 3 main ones on Windows 10, the other 2 being Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos. Tested the 3 using BF1 which is a marvel in audio engineering for games and tested it in lots of other games as well and DTS always came out on top. Windows Sonic sounds very hollow and tinny, bass is completely sucked out and it sounds like you're sitting in a bathroom as the reverb is just too much. Atmos is far better than Sonic and does soundstage a lot better than Sonic but it amplifies the bass and mid bass too much to the point where explosions in games just overpower way too much and the centre image isn't too accurate. DTS hardly changes the tuning of whatever headphones you use it with which is preferable, DTS has tuned over 500 headphones and if your headphone is supported you can select it in the program, it expands the soundstage but keeps it realistic and not hollow sounding, improves locational accuracy and does not alter the frequency response of your headphones. Oh and none of these options affect stereo content, if they receive a stereo signal they will not be activated so your music is unaffected which is preferable. They will only apply the spatial algorithm when they receive a surround signal from a game or movie.

I've been using DTS with my K712 Pro which has been tuned for the program and when playing games that have exceptional audio quality like BF1, I honestly feel as if the sound is coming through speakers sometimes, no doubt the already huge and out of your head sounding soundstage of the K712 Pro helps with that.


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## ShampooCA (Jun 4, 2020)

YJX94 said:


> I've actually been using DTS Sound Unbound with DTS Headphone:X for Spatial Audio in Windows and I think it is the best out of the 3 main ones on Windows 10, the other 2 being Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos. Tested the 3 using BF1 which is a marvel in audio engineering for games and tested it in lots of other games as well and DTS always came out on top. Windows Sonic sounds very hollow and tinny, bass is completely sucked out and it sounds like you're sitting in a bathroom as the reverb is just too much. Atmos is far better than Sonic and does soundstage a lot better than Sonic but it amplifies the bass and mid bass too much to the point where explosions in games just overpower way too much and the centre image isn't too accurate. DTS hardly changes the tuning of whatever headphones you use it with which is preferable, DTS has tuned over 500 headphones and if your headphone is supported you can select it in the program, it expands the soundstage but keeps it realistic and not hollow sounding, improves locational accuracy and does not alter the frequency response of your headphones. Oh and none of these options affect stereo content, if they receive a stereo signal they will not be activated so your music is unaffected which is preferable. They will only apply the spatial algorithm when they receive a surround signal from a game or movie.
> 
> I've been using DTS with my K712 Pro which has been tuned for the program and when playing games that have exceptional audio quality like BF1, I honestly feel as if the sound is coming through speakers sometimes, no doubt the already huge and out of your head sounding soundstage of the K712 Pro helps with that.


Thanks I'll have to give it a try.
I have a Sony setup with DTS for my home theatre.
STR DN1080 in a 3.0 speaker setup.
I prefer the DTS to Dolby.
I'll post back with my impressions.

Edit: Christ it's free?! Sweet 🤘🏾


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## wishbon3

YJX94 said:


> I've actually been using DTS Sound Unbound with DTS Headphone:X for Spatial Audio in Windows and I think it is the best out of the 3 main ones on Windows 10, the other 2 being Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos. Tested the 3 using BF1 which is a marvel in audio engineering for games and tested it in lots of other games as well and DTS always came out on top. Windows Sonic sounds very hollow and tinny, bass is completely sucked out and it sounds like you're sitting in a bathroom as the reverb is just too much. Atmos is far better than Sonic and does soundstage a lot better than Sonic but it amplifies the bass and mid bass too much to the point where explosions in games just overpower way too much and the centre image isn't too accurate. DTS hardly changes the tuning of whatever headphones you use it with which is preferable, DTS has tuned over 500 headphones and if your headphone is supported you can select it in the program, it expands the soundstage but keeps it realistic and not hollow sounding, improves locational accuracy and does not alter the frequency response of your headphones. Oh and none of these options affect stereo content, if they receive a stereo signal they will not be activated so your music is unaffected which is preferable. They will only apply the spatial algorithm when they receive a surround signal from a game or movie.
> 
> I've been using DTS with my K712 Pro which has been tuned for the program and when playing games that have exceptional audio quality like BF1, I honestly feel as if the sound is coming through speakers sometimes, no doubt the already huge and out of your head sounding soundstage of the K712 Pro helps with that.


Thanks for this info man!


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## ShampooCA

Aww crap it's not free, but I'm using the trial and think I may purchase, it's $29 Canadian I think it said.
Side note off topic, grabbed a pair of Sennheiser HD25 during the sale! Missed it from Sennheiser's direct page with the chance of getting a limited edition model, but ordered via Amazon.ca. hoping the limited edition models end up in that channel also.
Will try them out with DTS.


----------



## YJX94

wishbon3 said:


> Thanks for this info man!


You are very welcome.


----------



## YJX94

ShampooCA said:


> Aww crap it's not free, but I'm using the trial and think I may purchase, it's $29 Canadian I think it said.
> Side note off topic, grabbed a pair of Sennheiser HD25 during the sale! Missed it from Sennheiser's direct page with the chance of getting a limited edition model, but ordered via Amazon.ca. hoping the limited edition models end up in that channel also.
> Will try them out with DTS.


Yep it's a 30 day free trial IIRC. It's worth it though because of the headphone tuning, if your model is supported then set the program to that, if it isn't supported then no worries as you can use the Generic Over Ear profile, what it does is it neutralises your headphones before applying any spatial algorithm filters so the tonality of the headphones remain the same and is honestly indistinguishable from using the headphones in pure stereo. Also for the Spatial Mode setting use Balanced and not Spacious, Spacious just adds way too much reverb and makes voices sound so unnatural and distant.


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## ChoColostrum

Anyone here prefers Windows Sonic turned off?


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## Degru

ShampooCA said:


> Bringing back an old post from the grave, but yes, I've played BFV with this setting on and it did help with the soundstage and location tracking.
> I found that BFVs footsteps etc. impossible to track direction, but with this on and my Philips X2 headphones I have an easier time.
> Takes me back to the Counterstrike beta days where you could track them very well.


How does it compare to BFV's built in 3D headphone option?


----------

