# Burson Conductor Virtuoso  Thread.



## Frank I

I have the new model in house. The Burson sounds excellent


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## Gustavo

Did you compare it with the previous version of Conductor? Is there any difference in sound? Thanks.


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## Frank I

Gustavo I dont have a previous version ere to do any comparison with.  I have not heard the previous one at shows but not enough to make a valid comparison.


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## HiFiGuy528

Just unboxed the new Burson.  Color me impressed by the build quality and design.  The volume display is intriguing.  I really like the out of box experience so far.  I had the first gen Conductor.  This one is much improved.  Will report back with listening impressions after cook time.


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## Frank I

Nice Mike looking forward to your impressions.


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## Gustavo

I'm also expecting your listening impressions and objetive comparision with previous version of Conductor.


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## Frank I

Cant do it if I don have the prior Conductor. I can and will compare to similar priced amplifiers


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## Gustavo

frank i said:


> Cant do it if I don have the prior Conductor. I can and will compare to similar priced amplifiers


 
 I know, I asked HiFiGuy528 for a comparision. He said he had the original Conductor.
  
 I'm looking forward your impressions too. Comparisions with similar priced amplifiers are very interesting for me also. Thanks.


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## Frank I

Mike indeed does have both so he can do a side by side


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## Chik0240

this sounds interesting, especially considering the main difference on paper is the new relay based volume control, wondering beside the usability of 50 steps instead of 24 for the old attenuator. also curious why they decide to use a volume control which have a opamp output stage.


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## Tokoyo

Got mine 2 days ago, and it is fantastic! Using Audeze LCD-X with it, and couldn't be happier.
  
 Well, not 100% true, I have a very very faint white/grey noise. I have checked everything, and it is the same on both USB(Cardas) and optical(Atlas Mavros Glass Optical). I did not have this on my old Burson Conductor, and nothing but the amp itself is changed. Any idea what this can be? Keep in mind I'm a rookie, so it can be a very simple explanation to this. The noise does not change with volume up or down.


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## Frank I

chik0240 said:


> this sounds interesting, especially considering the main difference on paper is the new relay based volume control, wondering beside the usability of 50 steps instead of 24 for the old attenuator. also curious why they decide to use a volume control which have a opamp output stage.


 
 I will address the technical changes in my review and try to get answers to those questions for you.


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## Burson Audio

Hello everyone, Burson Audio are happy to respond to a few of the questions you've raised.
  
The new Conductor Virtuoso has 100-steps of volume control rather than the 24-steps of the previous ladder-resistor network so there's no noise when changing volume and you can find a level that's just right for you.
  
As for why the new 100-step volume control uses an op-amp output stage, the answer is... it doesn't. Burson is all class-A with not an op-amp in sight. We replace op-amps with our own fully-discrete circuitry, in this case dedicated to this one purpose. You can learn what we do and why we feel strongly that op-amps are so bad for audio on our website. 
  
The 8-pin chip visible on the PCB is a microcontroler chip used to program the TI PGA2310 volume control chip. Importantly, the microcontroller isn't in the audio signal path. Inside the PGA2310 there's a buffer stage but Burson has set it to eliminate its impact on sound. 
  
Regarding the noise that Tokoyo mentioned, the last model Conductor had three levels of selectable gain to overcome the limited steps of the original volume control. But it wasn't ideal because the idle-current of the amplifier could only be optimised for one of the three settings. In the previous Conductor the idle current was optimised for the mid-gain level and the noise floor of the previous Conductor reflected that. 
  
The new conductor has only one fully-optimized setting across the entire volume control range. With more sensitive headphones you might hear a slight increase in noise level and our specifications reflect that change. The previous version of the Conductor had a 96dB signal-to-noise ratio while the new Conductor Virtuoso features 94dB, resulting in, we feel,  improved performance. 
  
We're happy to answer any further question you may have.
  
Thank you,
Burson Audio


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## Gustavo

I'm glad to have in the forum a Burson's representative user to respond our inquiries.
  
 Quote:


> In the previous Conductor the idle current was optimised for the mid-gain level and the noise floor of the previous Conductor reflected that.


 
 Very interesting data...this is why I noted a cleaner sound in mid-gain than in high-gain level in the original Conductor.
  
 Burson Audio: Why you are taking so long to achieve a DSD capable USB Card to upgrade our Conductor's?
  
 Thanks.


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## Tokoyo

burson audio said:


> Regarding the noise that Tokoyo mentioned, the last model Conductor had three levels of selectable gain to overcome the limited steps of the original volume control. But it wasn't ideal because the idle-current of the amplifier could only be optimised for one of the three settings. In the previous Conductor the idle current was optimised for the mid-gain level and the noise floor of the previous Conductor reflected that.
> 
> Thank you,
> Burson Audio


 
 Thank you for answering! I use Audeze LCD-X, but after reading this I tested with my old AKG K-702, and they are dead silent. Quite the amount of noise in the LCD-X though, but everything else is great


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## Frank I

The Conductor  did very nice last night with the new Hiifman HE1000 prototype I hav ein the house. I was  impressed with how easy they were to drive and musical, A very nice match as is every headphone I have tried so far with the conductor. Musical  and Organic.


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## JackarlTwo

Such a nice looking amp. Got the old Conductor last week and have been enjoying it a lot. Only issue is the crackling sound when adjusting volume, which is supposedly fixed in Virtuoso. I'm curious if there are any sonic improvements over the old Conductor.


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## Frank I

The cracking sound is gone. The new Conductor has quiet volume control


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## jespersen

Hello Frank (and others who have the virtuoso)...
  
 I'm on the verge of buying this thing, but lack of reviews and not having the option to pre-listen makes is difficult for me.
  
 Feedback on how the virtuoso with the ESS9018 sounds with the Sennheisser HD800 would be very appreciated. Comparisons with other amps (on the HD800 would also be rather helpful.
  
 Also any added info on any white noise at low levels that was previously mentioned in this thread would be interesting.
  
 Thank you


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## Frank I

I can do that for you today Jesperen and let you know. So far with every headphone the Burson has delivered big time. The dac is excellent


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## jespersen

Thank you!
 For reference I have so far been able to listen to the Senn HD800 with the Bryston BHA-1, which I liked a lot, but its more expensive than the virtuoso here in europe and I would need a DAC on top of the price bring the package out of my budget sphere. I also tried the HD800 on a few "smaller" amps like a Nuforce and Teac (cant remember the models) and did not like that at all and stopped listening after 3 seconds.
  
 Again thank you in advance!


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## Frank I

I been listening this morning with the HD800 and can say it  has excellent synergy and also does veyr well with the T1 . I really enjoy  the Buron it is world class dac with a discrete amp that is dead quiet and does everything well. Built to last  and like a battleship will provide many years of service. Compared ot other in the price range the Burson stands out because of the excellent implementation of the dac and it is reference quality,


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## HiFiGuy528

jackarltwo said:


> Such a nice looking amp. Got the old Conductor last week and have been enjoying it a lot. Only issue is the crackling sound when adjusting volume, which is supposedly fixed in Virtuoso. I'm curious if there are any sonic improvements over the old Conductor.


 
  
 The volume on Virtuoso is nothing like the previous Conductor, no pops when you change the levels.


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## montanari

burson audio said:


> Hello everyone, Burson Audio are happy to respond to a few of the questions you've raised.
> 
> 
> Regarding the noise that Tokoyo mentioned, the last model Conductor had three levels of selectable gain to overcome the limited steps of the original volume control. But it wasn't ideal because the idle-current of the amplifier could only be optimised for one of the three settings. In the previous Conductor the idle current was optimised for the mid-gain level and the noise floor of the previous Conductor reflected that.
> ...


 
  
 so the same happen to the Soloist (optimized for mid gain setting) ?


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## Frank I

I  will be hooking the Conductor up to the 2 channel system today and reporting on how it does streaming using a macbook as a source and also headphone listening has been superb. Quiet unit.


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## Dark Ayla

I am about to order the Conductor and would like to ask few questions before doing it:
 a- Is this a good match with LCD3 Fazor and HD650?
 b- I know that the ESS DAC is more detailed compared to the PCM DAC, so which one is better for me? I like airy, warm and bassy sound. It is hard to mix airy and warm but I hope to get this combination. *I have issues with bright sound due to fatiguing and boring sound signature (I am looking for musicality).*
 c- What about the overall quality of the DAC (alone) and Amp (alone)?
 d- Any technical issues that you have experienced with this product? 
  
 Thanks


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## Dark Ayla

More questions 
 a- Why there is no gain selector on the amp?
 b- What is the minimum and maximum impedance headphones this amp can drive?
 c- Does the sample rate appears on the amp? 
 d- Does this amp/DAC support DSD? If not, is it true that you will release a new amp/DAC that supports DSD?
 e- Can I use the amp ONLY or DAC ONLY?


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## xident

That's a lot of questions... 
  
 To answer some of those for you: The "display" only shows volume, no sample rate information. At the moment there is no DSD dac/card available for it. No idea if they are planning to do one. You can easily use it as a DAC or amp only. There are two analog inputs on the back, and there is both a DAC-out and a Pre-out, so you can choose whether to use this unit as an "all in one" headamp, a DAC only or as a preamp for your power amplifier in a speaker system.
  
 Build quality appears to be excellent. I have had mine for a few weeks and it has been playing 24/7. Does not get hot and volume control and buttons/connectors feel good. I was recommended the 1793 DAC option by the (norwegian) distributor as the most "musical and analog sounding" compared to the ESS option. As it is also cheaper, I have not regretted the choice. I can always get the ESS card later if I feel like it, or use an external DAC.
  
 I can't tell you whether it's a good match for LCD-3. I have an LCD-X in the mail that I am hoping will be good with this, but so far I am using it with Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohm and Fisher Audio FA-002W. My only complaint is that the noise floor is a bit too high for my taste with these sensitive headphones, and I wouldn't expect it to be very different with the LCD-X. I would have loved to have a "pitch black" background to the music. But that's the trade-off for all that power I guess. Don't get me wrong though, other people who have listened to my setup have made no mentions of the noise-floor, only raved about the power and dynamics of the sound.
  
 I'm not sure why you would get this in addition to or to replace the Oppo HA-1 and Moon Neo 430HA in your signature though...? I strongly considered the Oppo but the asking price on it in Norway is currently almost double the US price, so that disqualified it.


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## Dark Ayla

xident said:


> That's a lot of questions...
> 
> To answer some of those for you: The "display" only shows volume, no sample rate information. At the moment there is no DSD dac/card available for it. No idea if they are planning to do one. You can easily use it as a DAC or amp only. There are two analog inputs on the back, and there is both a DAC-out and a Pre-out, so you can choose whether to use this unit as an "all in one" headamp, a DAC only or as a preamp for your power amplifier in a speaker system.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I getting this because I LOVE this hobby and want to test as many as possible of hardware. This will help me to build the perfect gear. 
  
 I also want to try the PCM DAC. The Oppo has the ESS, which is sooo revealing and might be harsh with bright recordings. 
  
 You mentioned the noise floor, my LCD3 is 110 Ohm, HD 650 300 Ohm so I think I will be safe RIGHT? What do u think?
 I will use it also with my EL8 Closed design 30 Ohm, which might be an issue, what do u think?
  
 What about the lack of gain selector? Why Burson did it like that?!!
  
 I noticed in the web few units of Conductor with transparent (glass/plastic) top cover, is this an option that I can request from Burson?
  
  
 Thank you so much


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## xident

I wouldn't worry about the "noise floor"-thing unless a pitch black background for ALL headphones is one of your key requirements, and it would be my guess that the list of amps to choose from wouldn't be very big.
  
 I can hear a faint noise floor in the DT770's (80ohm/96db) when there is no music playing or there is a pause in the music, but it does not get higher when the volume is turned up. It is higher, and uncomfortably so, with the FA-002W (64ohm/105db) and IEM's (Dunu DN-2000 16ohm/102db), but the amp is clearly not designed with these in mind. I would expect it to be dead silent with less efficient headphones.
  
 As far as efficient planar headphones go, I have no first hand experience yet. However Mike Mercer has been very positive about his experience with this amp and the open back Audeze EL-8 in another thread. For example:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/749214/audeze-el-8-the-el-8-is-a-must-hear-at-ces-2015/2700#post_11354436
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/749214/audeze-el-8-the-el-8-is-a-must-hear-at-ces-2015/2715#post_11356084
  
 Would love to hear from anybody using Fostex TH 900 with this amp..?


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## Dark Ayla

xident said:


> I wouldn't worry about the "noise floor"-thing unless a pitch black background for ALL headphones is one of your key requirements, and it would be my guess that the list of amps to choose from wouldn't be very big.
> 
> I can hear a faint noise floor in the DT770's (80ohm/96db) when there is no music playing or there is a pause in the music, but it does not get higher when the volume is turned up. It is higher, and uncomfortably so, with the FA-002W (64ohm/105db) and IEM's (Dunu DN-2000 16ohm/102db), but the amp is clearly not designed with these in mind. I would expect it to be dead silent with less efficient headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 I want to understand the floor noise. So when there is no music is playing there is a slight noise which doesn't increase with increasing the volume, right?
 My question, can I say that while playing the music the floor noise is still there but we don't hear it due to the presence of frequencies from the music? If yes, I assume this affects the fidelity of the music due to the presence of extra frequencies at the background.


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## PetarCV

Yes, the floor noise is the same regardless of the volume level. I find it annoying with low impedance headphones: when I use the Virtuoso with Grado PS1000 (32ohm), the floor noise is pretty high, although it does get more or less masked when the music is on. However, If you tend to listen to music which has a lot of changes in volume levels (for example, orchestral and classical music), then you might find the background noise quite audible and interfering with quieter parts of music. When I use it with the Beyer DT990 (250ohm), the floor noise is very low and barely audible. So, I am also wondering how it would act with a 100ohm headphone like the LCD-3.


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## Dark Ayla

petarcv said:


> Yes, the floor noise is the same regardless of the volume level. I find it annoying with low impedance headphones: when I use the Virtuoso with Grado PS1000 (32ohm), the floor noise is pretty high, although it does get more or less masked when the music is on. However, If you tend to listen to music which has a lot of changes in volume levels (for example, orchestral and classical music), then you might find the background noise quite audible and interfering with quieter parts of music. When I use it with the Beyer DT990 (250ohm), the floor noise is very low and barely audible. So, I am also wondering how it would act with a 100ohm headphone like the LCD-3.


 

 I contacted Burson about it.
  
 They confirmed that the Conductor can pair nicely with the LCDX that has 20 Ohm.
 According to them low impedance is not an issue at all.


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## PetarCV

Pairing well and producing no floor noise are not synonymous. Tokoyo brought up this issue in the first place in regard to his LCD-X. Burson also said that there will be increase in the noise level with more sensitive headphones.


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## Frank I

The Burson does very well with any headphone so far I used it with. The LCD X and Xc does very well indeed  with the headphone.  It even doing well with the He1000 prototype so it a terrific all rounder and happy to say is doing well as a dac in the two chaneell system


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## Dark Ayla

frank i said:


> The Burson does very well with any headphone so far I used it with. The LCD X and Xc does very well indeed  with the headphone.  It even doing well with the He1000 prototype so it a terrific all rounder and happy to say is doing well as a dac in the two chaneell system


 

 Which DAC do u have? PCM or ESS? Please provide a brief comparison if you can.
  
 Please please  please tell me about the He1000 vs LCD, just one sentence


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## Frank I

The ESS dac  in this unit. Magnificent -one word


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## JackarlTwo

xident said:


> Would love to hear from anybody using Fostex TH 900 with this amp..?


 
  
 Not with Virtuoso, but the previous Conductor. Very nice pairing. If Virtuoso sounds anything like the previous Conductor it's a great pairing. Zero issues with noise levels, (as far as I'm aware), despite TH900 high sensitivity and low impedence.


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## PetarCV

That's due to the previous Conductor's three level gains.


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## Burson Audio

dark ayla said:


> More questions
> a- Why there is no gain selector on the amp?
> b- What is the minimum and maximum impedance headphones this amp can drive?
> c- Does the sample rate appears on the amp?
> ...


 
  
Thanks Xident, your informative posts are much appreciated. The Burson Conductor Virtuoso sounds great on Audeze LCD-Xs, listening to that combo now and find there are no noise issues. 
  
To cover one or two more of Dark Ayla's questions, there is no gain selector because the NEW VOLUME CONTROL is a full 100 steps and already optimized for all gain settings, unlike the earlier Conductor, and there are no longer any clicks when changing volume. We're looking into DSD but at the moment have no plans to implement it. You can of course use the Conductor Virtuoso as a DAC/Amp/Preamp or as a DAC alone or a headphone amplifier alone but we recommend using the Conductor Virtuoso with its DAC and Amp sections which have been optimized with discrete circuitry (no op-amps). I'll check on min and max impedance but the CV should drive all headphones to sufficient levels and quality of sound. Regarding the LCD-3, it's a fine match, and Burson and Audeze exhibit together at shows so we're confident of winning performance with all their products. 
  
If you have suggestions for what we can add to the Burson website you only have to let us know. But in the meantime we're including links here for you to answer some of your questions about the ESS Sabre DAC HERE and the Burr Brown PCM17893 HERE. Given your preferences we recommend the 1793 for you. No matter the DAC all Conductor Virtuosos are very analog sounding, the 1793 more so. You can also learn more about the solid, RFA anti-resonance build HERE. And find out how Burson eschews op-amps and instead uses all-discrete circuity HERE.  
  
The clear-top units are for display at shows or dealer showrooms only and are not available for purchase. 
  
Thanks, feel free to ask as many questions as you like. 
Burson Audio


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## PetarCV

A nice short comparison of the Conductor's DACs: http://headmania.org/2013/08/26/new-burson-1793-dac-pcb-review/


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## Dark Ayla

burson audio said:


> Thanks Xident, your informative posts are much appreciated. The Burson Conductor Virtuoso sounds great on Audeze LCD-Xs, listening to that combo now and find there are no noise issues.
> 
> To cover one or two more of Dark Ayla's questions, there is no gain selector because the NEW VOLUME CONTROL is a full 100 steps and already optimized for all gain settings, unlike the earlier Conductor, and there are no longer any clicks when changing volume. We're looking into DSD but at the moment have no plans to implement it. You can of course use the Conductor Virtuoso as a DAC/Amp/Preamp or as a DAC alone or a headphone amplifier alone but we recommend using the Conductor Virtuoso with its DAC and Amp sections which have been optimized with discrete circuitry (no op-amps). I'll check on min and max impedance but the CV should drive all headphones to sufficient levels and quality of sound. Regarding the LCD-3, it's a fine match, and Burson and Audeze exhibit together at shows so we're confident of winning performance with all their products.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you so much Burson!
  
 I love when a company stands behind a product and reach all customers to clarify and answer all questions/concerns.
 I really wish if all companies have the same premium customer service as Burson. 
Thanks again and I am eagerly waiting to put my hands on the wonderful Conductor V


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## Beginner008

Anyone with the background noise problem may try to float the ground (disconnect the ground wire from the main) to see if the noise go away. If it did, you can get one of the HumX as a safer long term solution. I don't have a Conductor, but its work the magic on my Soloist.


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## PetarCV

Thanks for the suggestion, Beginner008. Was the background noise that your Soloist had the same with all gain levels and different headphones?


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## Beginner008

Hi PetarCV, on my Soloist, the ground hum sound like a faded Morse code transmission. I could hear it on normal volume level and it will go louder as the volume go up. With the ground floated, it's dead quiet on all volume level. (Sony MDR-Z7)
  
 I could not hear it on my AKG K240DF even in maximum volume, but its a 600 ohm headphone and it doesn't go very loud even at maximum volume!


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## PetarCV

I see, it seems like it could be a different type of noise issue. The background noise of the Virtuoso doesn't change with different volume levels. There's almost no noise at all with the 250ohm BeyerDynamic, but several low impedance headphones, like the PS1000, produce a hiss-like background sound (it depends on the music whether it will noticeable or not during playback).


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## Dark Ayla

I came across few reviews talking about the USB connection used in the Conductor, they claim that the quality of the connection is not up to standard. I don't know what does that mean and I don't believe it! 
I can not imagine a USB connection affecting the sound quality. I also heared that Burson came up with a new USB module, connection and bridge for the Virtuoso. Is this true?


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## Tony1110

The Tenor chip used in the old Conductor was prone to dropouts. Lots of people, including myself, were using USB to SPDIF converters to get round the problem. I don't think it's an issue with the Cmedia chip Burson replaced it with. USB connections used to mean jitter but that's becoming less of a problem in higher end products. There's also the matter of devices drawing their power to the USB board from the computer. It's less expensive to not get hung up on these things.


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## HeyWaj10

mikemercer

I think I've seen glimpses of your impressions with this piece, but can't seem to find any formal review. Has that been posted somewhere? Thanks!!


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## xident

Just reporting back as I've received my LCD-X and have been using it with the Virtuoso (PCM 1973) for a couple of days now.
  
 It is indeed a fine match and I'm thoroughly enjoying the combination. Noise floor is not an issue at all (barely noticeable if no music is playing and the room is dead quiet), probably helped by the fact that the LCD-X is an open headphone compared to the closed DT770's I was using previously. Using it for all kinds of music (and movies) at the moment, and I am also happy to report that the combination also seems to play nice with "less-than-stellar" recordings.


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## Dark Ayla

I placed my order yesterday, Burson Conductor Virtuoso Burr Brown DAC.


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## PetarCV

I haven't heard Sabre version, but the Burr Brown Virtuoso after the break-in sounds marvelous.


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## Dark Ayla

petarcv said:


> I haven't heard Sabre version, but the Burr Brown Virtuoso after the break-in sounds marvelous.




How long it took to break in?
What audiobl changes did u notice?


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## PetarCV

Around 3 weeks. The sound got more detailed and spacious; timbre became more refined and imaging got much better too. At first I couldn't quite detect its sound signature, but after the break-in it got into place and became very well defined, both smooth and energetic.


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## fb24601

I have tried the Virtuoso (9018) today with k812 and then I bring it back home. I also tried Marantz hd-dac1 and then I choose Virtuoso without much consideration. Virtuoso really worth extra bucks.
  
 The demo unit at the shop paired it with lcd-xc which has even lower impedance (20 Ohm) than k812: 36 Ohm (and th900: 25 Ohm). It also sounds very good and there is no noise on both to me. Seems the virtuoso with headphone output impedance 3 Ohm can also pair with low impedance headphones very well.
  
 When I connect k3003 to it I did hear considerable noise, may be it is not designed for iem.
  
 Also when I used the mute button on the remote, the penal digits and the USB light started to flash but the headphones still produce sound. Is the mute button for remote only works for lineout?


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## PetarCV

When I press mute, both on the unit and on the remote, the headphone out is muted.


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## Sorefoot19

Well, I have been thinking about getting a SS amp to go with my Lyr/Bifrost set up.  Up until today, my two choices were Oppo HA-1 and Meier Audio Corda Classic/Daccord combo.  Since the Meier threads are pretty quiet, I thought I'd ask if anyone here has heard the Oppo or Meier amps.  The Burson with the Burr Brown DAC is the most expensive, but not by much.  I consider these to be in a very similar price category.
  
 I have a mix of dynamic and planar cans.  Dynamics include T1, HD600 and X2.  My planars are Alpha Dog and HE500.  I like the features on the Meier products, but have never heard them.  They have a unique crossfeed circuit, and I've heard that the Daccord is not overly bright.  My one fear on SS is that they could be annoyingly bright.  My original Schiit Magni/Modi combo was far brighter than the O2/ODAC I had, so I'm assuming implementation is a key issue.  So any comments would help me out with my decision.
  
 Thanks.


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## Joong

Sorry I did not read all threads.
 Dac section is still the same as old one?
 I like my old conductor very much recently, which is highly scalable with source quality.


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## fb24601

petarcv said:


> When I press mute, both on the unit and on the remote, the headphone out is muted.




Thanks for advice, I go back to the shop for testing and get replaced for another one.


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## Rawajakaj

Hello,

Has anyone tried using a airport express to stream Tidal music to the Virtuoso. I had the original Conductor and it could not reliably stream had clicks and drops. Ended up with the Cetrance DACmini since it was able to support streaming.


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## gogohuskies

I have a ha 160d. I left this audiophile community three years ago. I just checked back and find out ha 160d seems to be a dinosaur here now. It still drives my hd 650 and d 7000 great. I do like burson sound signature but is it worth $1500 more in terms of sound difference? Anyone who has had both ha 160d and conductor virtuoso please chime in


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## jamesng45678

I am using a Lehmann audio BCL with a external dac but when i tried the burson conductor, the sound quality is not as good as my current setup. The midrange is lacking but the bass is tighter and stronger. I do not think upgrading to a conductor is an upgrade but more like a side grade. What do you guys think?


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## iDesign

gogohuskies said:


> I have a ha 160d. I left this audiophile community three years ago. I just checked back and find out ha 160d seems to be a dinosaur here now. It still drives my hd 650 and d 7000 great. I do like burson sound signature but is it worth $1500 more in terms of sound difference? Anyone who has had both ha 160d and conductor virtuoso please chime in


 

 The HA-160D works very well with the HD-650 and I believe there is enough appreciable synergetic increase to justify making the financial investment into the Conductor Virtuoso. However, if you're considering upgrading to newer/different headphones like the HD-800 thats where the HA-160D may leave you looking at other amplifiers on the market.


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## fb24601

Further comments after spending the weekend to burn in the virtuoso (9018):
  
 1) Originally I think the bass is not particularly emphasized on the Virtuoso. However, upon changing the stock power cable into the audioquest ngx upgrade power cable, I can hear an improved bass to my satisfactory level
  
 2) Regarding the background noise, I can now hear a little bit of it for akg k812, which is very subtle, but can still be noticed upon focusing. It can be identified upon comparing when the power is switched off. When I changed into th900, the background noise become quite apparent.
  
 3) The virtuoso have enough current to drive the low impedance low sensitivity akg k812 very well. I am using sony uda1 to drive k812 and th900 before upgrading into virtuoso. The burr brown 1795 of uda1 can produce a very clean and musical sound, and under uda1 the easier driven th900 seems to be more appealing than k812. I don't know what is the full potential of k812 but the virtuoso makes it flying and to me it wins back over th900 on an open sound and better dynamics and with a very close bass performance.
  
 4) I am thinking about if I can eliminate the background noise (for th900 and others) by adding an impedance adapter say for 32 ohm?
  
 Maybe virtuoso is better for higher impedance headphones such as hd800, t1, LCD3 etc?


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## Dark Ayla

fb24601 said:


> Further comments after spending the weekend to burn in the virtuoso (9018):
> 
> 1) Originally I think the bass is not particularly emphasized on the Virtuoso. However, upon changing the stock power cable into the audioquest ngx upgrade power cable, I can hear an improved bass to my satisfactory level
> 
> ...




I find it hard to believe that power cable has impact on bass!
What AudioQuest cable are you using? Is it worth it?

I will wait to get my Conductor to make my final judgement.


----------



## Wnuwk Siphon

rawajakaj said:


> Hello,
> 
> Has anyone tried using a airport express to stream Tidal music to the Virtuoso. I had the original Conductor and it could not reliably stream had clicks and drops. Ended up with the Cetrance DACmini since it was able to support streaming.




I have zero experience with Conductor or Tidal, so please take this with large quantities of salt, but for reliable streaming it's better to use Apple TV instead of Airport Express.


----------



## earthpeople

fb24601 said:


> 2) Regarding the background noise, I can now hear a little bit of it for akg k812, which is very subtle, but can still be noticed upon focusing. It can be identified upon comparing when the power is switched off. When I changed into th900, the background noise become quite apparent.


 
  
  
 This is interesting to me. I have a non-Virtuoso Conductor and I use my TH900 with it regularly. It is absolutely silent, regardless of what the gain setting is at. Maybe it has to do with the new volume control? As far as I understand, the amp and DAC sections are unchanged.


----------



## fb24601

dark ayla said:


> I find it hard to believe that power cable has impact on bass!
> What AudioQuest cable are you using? Is it worth it?
> 
> I am not sure why Burson didn't manage to eliminate the noise, SHAME!




It may have improved overall but just the bass can catch more attention. The aq power cable is only the entry grade ngx. I may further upgrade into a even thicker diy cable.

At the shop I have tried the unit they have also displayed the marantz hd-dac1. The shop has used a power cable as thick as the thumb for the marantz. They said it can boost the bass and is trying to make the performance more balance for the two demo units. But of course the virtuoso still outperforms the hd-dac1 by a wide margin.


----------



## fb24601

earthpeople said:


> This is interesting to me. I have a non-Virtuoso Conductor and I use my TH900 with it regularly. It is absolutely silent, regardless of what the gain setting is at. Maybe it has to do with the new volume control? As far as I understand, the amp and DAC sections are unchanged.




As they have explained they improved in circuit and there is no more gain settings with improved sound and a +2db noise floor.

But now, it seems that it is not silent for some of the headphones especially low impedance and sensitive ones.

Anyone with experience to use impedance adaptors to share? I have browse through the web and have read some 32ohm may be applied to control most noise.


----------



## earthpeople

Right, I understand they removed the gain switch but it is otherwise still a Soloist amp section as described on Burson's website. The setting now corresponds to medium gain on the old Conductor as I understand it, but I do not hear any noise with my TH900 even then. I could even use my Sennheiser IE8 (which hiss with almost any amp I've owned) and there was no trace of background noise. 
  
 Not that I'm planning to get a Virtuoso (don't really need any of the new features), just curious about what could be causing the background noise.


----------



## PetarCV

I haven't tried the adapters, but I am also interested in whether they'd make a significant improvement. I agree with you that Virtuoso is apparently better for high impedance headphones, as by now we've established there's a lot of noise with sensitive phones like LCD-X, PS1000, and TH-900. I can also detect a miniscule noise with 250ohm DT990 when I plug and unplug them, but it is almost silent and unnoticeable with music on. Haven't tried any 100-ohm or so headphone (like LCD-2 and 3), but I wonder what the noise-level would be with them: I'm guessing much less than with PS1000, TH-900 or LCD-X, but probably not as quiet as I assume T1 and HD800 would be.


----------



## fb24601

I am curious to ask is a subtle noise generated by a high power amp generally acceptable to an audiophile? It generally cannot be heard when music is on. 
  
 While the noise k812 on virtuoso is very subtle, I think the level of background noise for th900 (and of the likes) cannot be accepted as hifi standard. That's way I am trying to find out if impedance adapters can help.


----------



## Dark Ayla

fb24601 said:


> I am curious to ask is a subtle noise generated by a high power amp generally acceptable to an audiophile? It generally cannot be heard when music is on.
> 
> While the noise k812 on virtuoso is very subtle, I think the level of background noise for th900 (and of the likes) cannot be accepted as hifi standard. That's way I am trying to find out if impedance adapters can help.


 

 I didn't receive my Burson yet, so I can not talk about the noise issue. 
  
 Let me tell you this, I have a $4500 Dac/Amp. This amp considered as one of the best, it generates noise at the last quarter of volume level. 
 If the Conductor will act in the same way, then it is normal.


----------



## Dark Ayla

fb24601 said:


> I am curious to ask is a subtle noise generated by a high power amp generally acceptable to an audiophile? It generally cannot be heard when music is on.
> 
> While the noise k812 on virtuoso is very subtle, I think the level of background noise for th900 (and of the likes) cannot be accepted as hifi standard. That's way I am trying to find out if impedance adapters can help.


 

 Did you contact Burson?
 Why you didn't return it back?
  
 Burson must say something about this issue ASAP. I am wondering if they are still monitoring this thread.


----------



## fb24601

dark ayla said:


> I didn't receive my Burson yet, so I can not talk about the noise issue.
> 
> Let me tell you this, I have a $4500 Dac/Amp. This amp considered as one of the best, it generates noise at the last quarter of volume level.
> If the Conductor will act in the same way, then it is normal.


 
 The background noise is different with the volume sensitive noise. It is there and stay at the same level whatever the volume tuning is. 
  
 As far as I can heard the background noise won't change when tuning the volume up.


----------



## Dark Ayla

fb24601 said:


> The background noise is different with the volume sensitive noise. It is there and stay at the same level whatever the volume tuning is.
> 
> As far as I can heard the background noise won't change when tuning the volume up.


 

 WOW!
 I am kinda shocked, how come Burson allowed to pass this model with noise level?
 Do u hear it with quite music? do u hear it when there is no music?


----------



## fb24601

dark ayla said:


> Did you contact Burson?
> Why you didn't return it back?
> 
> Burson must say something about this issue ASAP. I am wondering if they are still monitoring this thread.


 
 Well I have asked Burson if it is suitable for low impedance headphones such as k812 and th900 and about the noise issue. They commented the noise difference with conductor with +2db only can hardly be heard but with improved sonic performance, and suggested me to bring the headphones for testing.
  
 I did bring k812 to testing and may be due to the environment I cannot hear background noise at the shop. The sound quality drving the k812 is indeed excellent as I have mentioned above. I believe it can output enough current for the current hungry k812. The noise level is very subtle for k812 and can only be heard upon focusing. I am not sure if that is acceptable on hifi standard.
  
 The noise level for sensitive headphones th900 and iem k3003 is very apparent, I also own them.


----------



## fb24601

dark ayla said:


> WOW!
> 
> I am kinda shocked, who come Burson allowed to pass this model with noise level?
> 
> Do u hear it with quite music?


 
 When music is on the noise cannot be heard, it is covered by the music.


----------



## PetarCV

It's true that most music will cover the noise, but this is not always the case. When you use a low impedance headphone and play music that has a lot of quiet parts (as, for example, in orchestral music where there's often just one or a couple of instruments playing in a very soft mode, musically called piano, pianissimo and pianississimo), then the background noise can certainly be heard together with the instruments.
  
 This wouldn't be an issue with rock, metal, and many other genres, I guess, but in acoustic music, classical, jazz and so on, where you have  shifts in volume dynamics quite regularly, the background noise can definitely interfere by being audible during softer and quieter parts of music.


----------



## PetarCV

dark ayla said:


> Why you didn't return it back?


 
 I don't think it can be returned based on this. It's just how it's designed, so I assume any unit would act the same noise-wise.


----------



## PetarCV

fb24601 said:


> The background noise is different with the volume sensitive noise. It is there and stay at the same level whatever the volume tuning is.
> 
> As far as I can heard the background noise won't change when tuning the volume up.


 

 Yes, the noise is not related to volume levels at all.
  
 Btw, is k812 only 35 ohm? Grado PS1000 is 32 ohm and they produce a lot of background noise.


----------



## Dark Ayla

petarcv said:


> It's true that most music will cover the noise, but this is not always the case. When you use a low impedance headphone and play music that has a lot of quiet parts (as, for example, in orchestral music where there's often just one or a couple of instruments playing in a very soft mode, musically called piano, pianissimo and pianississimo), then the background noise can certainly be heard together with the instruments.
> 
> This wouldn't be an issue with rock, metal, and many other genres, I guess, but in acoustic music, classical, jazz and so on, where you have  shifts in volume dynamics quite regularly, the background noise can definitely interfere by being audible during softer and quieter parts of music.


 

 I will wait to get my hands on the Conductor before making my final judgement.


----------



## fb24601

k812 is 36ohm, may be noise is also related to sensitivity besides impedance. k812 should be considered insensitive?

The noise level of lcd-xc should also be very low if there is any (as I have tried), it is 20 Ohm. For th900 it is 25 Ohm but the noise is very significant.


----------



## PetarCV

AKG K812: 36 ohm, 110 dB
 Grado PS1000: 32 ohm, 98 dB
 Fostex TH900: 25 ohm, 100 dB
 Audeze LCD-X: 20 ohm, 103 dB
 Audeze LCD-3: 110 ohm, 102 dB
 Beyer DT990: 250 ohm, 96 db
  
 Based on what the few of us here have noticed:
 PS1000, TH900 and LCD-X produce high levels of noise with Virtuoso.
 K812 and DT990 are almost silent.


----------



## Dark Ayla

petarcv said:


> AKG K812: 36 ohm, 110 dB
> Grado PS1000: 32 ohm, 98 dB
> Fostex TH900: 25 ohm, 100 dB
> Audeze LCD-X: 20 ohm, 103 dB
> ...


 

 I expecting mine to come soon, I hope to have positive experience with it.


----------



## fb24601

Seems for low impedance headphones, may be the previous conductor model is more suitable, and can change the usb output to cm6631a module?


----------



## Chik0240

fb24601 said:


> Seems for low impedance headphones, may be the previous conductor model is more suitable, and can change the usb output to cm6631a module?




Reading the thread seemed that the new conductor is redesigned in some ways, so maybe not that easy to mod the old model, whereas the old model is discontinued at the same time?


----------



## fb24601

chik0240 said:


> Reading the thread seemed that the new conductor is redesigned in some ways, so maybe not that easy to mod the old model, whereas the old model is discontinued at the same time?


 
 Officially the old conductor model is replaced by conductor virtuoso and no longer being listed on webpage, may be some dealers still has carry some stock. If you have conductor, it seems that you can buy the cm6631a module separately and replaced the existing usb module as an upgrade.
  
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/cm6631-usb-module/


----------



## fb24601

Everything is so good including the sound quality and design except the noise level for low impedance headphones. Hope Burson can improve the circuit to eliminate the noise for those low impedance and sensitive headphone models.


----------



## Dark Ayla

fb24601 said:


> Everything is so good including the sound quality and design except the noise level for low impedance headphones. Hope Burson can improve the circuit to eliminate the noise for those low impedance and sensitive headphone models.


 

 I assume that the new EL8 will not be a good match with the virtuoso. This is because the EL8 is a sensitive headphone. 
 I will wait to test it by myself.


----------



## fb24601

I am not sure what I shall do.....I like the sound and design of the virtuoso, and I don't like hd800 and t1, may be I sell k812 and th900 to swap for an lcd3???


----------



## PetarCV

fb24601 said:


> I am not sure what I shall do.....I like the sound and design of the virtuoso, and I don't like hd800 and t1, may be I sell k812 and th900 to swap for an lcd3???


 
 I also like the sound and looks of the Virtuoso, and only find issue with the noise. And I was thinking about geting an LCD-3 too, but we don't know how much noise they'd produce... I assume it won't be much, but they won't be as silent as 250 ohm + phones, I think. Also, I am not a fan of HD800 ad T1 either, so I wouldn't wanna get those.


----------



## fb24601

petarcv said:


> I also like the sound and looks of the Virtuoso, and only find issue with the noise. And I was thinking about geting an LCD-3 too, but we don't know how much noise they'd produce... I assume it won't be much, but they won't be as silent as 250 ohm + phones, I think. Also, I am not a fan of HD800 ad T1 either, so I wouldn't wanna get those.


 
  
 Honestly the noise for k812 is very subtle (and should be the case for lcd-xc). For lcd3 likely there is no noise audible, but we have to find out.


----------



## PetarCV

Look earlier into this thread, where Tokoyo wrote:
  
 "Thank you for answering! I use Audeze LCD-X, but after reading this I tested with my old AKG K-702, and they are dead silent. Quite the amount of noise in the LCD-X though, but everything else is great "


----------



## fb24601

I tested lcd-xc at the shop together with k812, and if there is any noise that would be similar. I have seen two shops using lcd-xc as demo upairing for virtuoso. The lcd-xc noise problem should not be very material. And remember the thread starter Frank I's photo uses lcd-xc also and give positive comment. 
  
 It is very difficult to explain, th900 has higher impedance than and same sensitivity as lcd-xc, but the noise floor for th900 as I heard is much much higher than lcd-xc.
  
 I bought virtuoso after testing as I think th900 and lcd-xc is similar in response to noise according to specifications.


----------



## PetarCV

That's strange... Based on the specs, you'd expect a similar noise level. And PS1000 are 32 ohm / 98 dB, so similar to LCD-X, but the noise is high. I also tried Sony MDR-NC60, and they also produce a lot of noise (I assume they are very low impedance phones).


----------



## fb24601

I may visit the shop that I buy the virtuoso this weekend and may ask for recommendations and do some testing on the lcds if possible. Any results will be posted.


----------



## PetarCV

Great, looking forward! Try to test with some quiet music too, if possible, it'll be easier to detect the levels of noise.


----------



## Chik0240

petarcv said:


> That's strange... Based on the specs, you'd expect a similar noise level. And PS1000 are 32 ohm / 98 dB, so similar to LCD-X, but the noise is high. I also tried Sony MDR-NC60, and they also produce a lot of noise (I assume they are very low impedance phones).




Maybe the noise level is partly due to local power condition? Say if the power stage in the virtuoso don't have sufficient power conditioning measures might result in significant noise in some locations with sensitive phones?


----------



## fb24601

burson, buy why there is no reported "hiss" for some of the headphones for the conductor model? For example a user mentioned there is no background noise for th900 using conductor.

Seems it is not just a +2db, there is some effect needed to be look into.


----------



## Burson Audio

dark ayla said:


> I assume that the new EL8 will not be a good match with the virtuoso.


 
On the contrary, EL-8s sounded wonderful at CES in the Burson Audio room. There appear to be some people with low-impedance and senstive in-ear phones as well as other types of headphones that experience the hiss masked by music. I'm not a kid, but as I play the Condutor Virtuoso now on a pair of LCD-X I hear onlly the faintest hiss buried deep in the noise floor. 
  
Some people must be more sensitive to that hiss than others because we listened to another unit today that came in with the same "issue", but again we hear hardly anything! So the consumer has many choices. if they want class-A operation and all-discrete circuitry for a deeply analog-sounding product, we have it. Or he or she can choose a different headphone amp that exhibits no hiss but built around op-amps -- the very devices Burson won't use -- to achieve an alternative sound. 
  
Thank you,
Burson


----------



## Burson Audio

fb24601 said:


> burson, buy why there is no reported "hiss" for some of the headphones for the conductor model? For example a user mentioned there is no background noise for th900 using conductor.
> 
> Seems it is not just a +2db, there is some effect needed to be look into.


 
Hello fb24601. As explained in another post, the low-level hiss is the class-A idle current that some people and headphones are more sensitive to. Burson choose a no-op-amp all-disrete class-A design to get the sound they coudn't get using op-amps. 
Thanks,
Burson


----------



## fb24601

We are not talking about sensitivty iem here. Let's say the noise reported in lcd-x and lcd-xc and k812 is "faintest hiss buried deep in the noise floor”. But the hiss for th900 is quite loud (it is surely not some user sensitive to hiss).

Is it possible the planar magnetic headphones are less responsive to the bias class A current than dynamic drivers?

But for previous conductor a user said there is no such hiss for th900 even at different gain settings.


----------



## Burson Audio

dark ayla said:


> I am not sure why Burson didn't manage to eliminate the noise, SHAME!


 
As explained in other posts today, these were decisions based on a no-op-amp topology with all-optmized discrete circuits and class-A operation. Some people and headphones are more sensitive to the sound of the class-A idle current which disappears when  playing music. The new 100-step volume control is obviates the need for the three gain settings in the older Conductor and essentially is always optimzed for whatever volume you choose, But we emphasize, these are choices we've made to get the analog-like sound Burson is known for, the sound they couldn't get using op-amp-based amplifier building blocks.
Thank you,
Burson


----------



## JackarlTwo

fb24601 said:


> But for previous conductor a user said there is no such hiss for th900 even at different gain settings.


 
  
 No hiss at all here either with previous conductor + th900 with different gain settings.


----------



## PetarCV

It also depends on the type of music whether the hiss will be fully masked or not. For example, with classical and other acoustic music that has frequent volume-level changes, the hiss is often pretty audible during those parts when instruments play quietly. This relates to sensitive headphones such as TH900 and PS1000.


----------



## PetarCV

burson audio said:


> As explained in other posts today, these were decisions based on a no-op-amp topology with all-optmized discrete circuits and class-A operation. Some people and headphones are more sensitive to the sound of the class-A idle current which disappears when  playing music. The new 100-step volume control is obviates the need for the three gain settings in the older Conductor and essentially is always optimzed for whatever volume you choose, But we emphasize, these are choices we've made to get the analog-like sound Burson is known for, the sound they couldn't get using op-amp-based amplifier building blocks.
> Thank you,
> Burson


 

 I love the Burson sound. But to say that the background noise disappears with the music on would not be entirely correct. Anyone uncertain about it can play (with the sensitive headphones) the opening bars of Stravinsky's Firebird Introduction: the hiss nearly overwhelms the basses & celli playing quietly in the ppp mode.


----------



## Dark Ayla

burson audio said:


> As explained in other posts today, these were decisions based on a no-op-amp topology with all-optmized discrete circuits and class-A operation. Some people and headphones are more sensitive to the sound of the class-A idle current which disappears when  playing music. The new 100-step volume control is obviates the need for the three gain settings in the older Conductor and essentially is always optimzed for whatever volume you choose, But we emphasize, these are choices we've made to get the analog-like sound Burson is known for, the sound they couldn't get using op-amp-based amplifier building blocks.
> Thank you,
> Burson



I think it is better not to judge the Conductor based on random comments on this thread. 
 
I will wait to get my Conductor and test it by myself. 
 
I am planning to use the Conductor to drive LCD3, EL8 and V-moda M100. 
 
As mentioned before in a previous comment, I own a $4500 Amp/Dac that produces noise with sensitive phones. This amp is considered as one of the best amps if not the best among SS amps. My point here, no quick judgements before testing the Conductor. I am not sure but there might be grounding issue associated with members who are talking about noise.  
 
Burson is well known for long time in the world of HiFi and they know what to do. Honestly, I feel that the new Conductor will be a big step up from the previous models. 
 
I am expecting mine to arrive tomorrow.


----------



## fb24601

dark ayla said:


> I think that I made a huge mistake by judging the Conductor based on random comments on this thread.
> 
> I will wait to get my Conductor and test it by myself.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Dark Ayla, you also own oppo ha-1? May be you can compare if there is any background noise. ha-1 is also class A?


----------



## Dark Ayla

fb24601 said:


> Hi Dark Ayla, you also own oppo ha-1? May be you can compare if there is any background noise. ha-1 is also class A?


 

 I will 
  
 But keep in mind that the Oppo Ha-1 is a revealing amp. Some customers find it bright, so it is up to your taste. 
  
 I decided to get Burr Brown Conductor, this is due to the warm reputation of this DAC.


----------



## Dark Ayla

petarcv said:


> I love the Burson sound. But to say that the background noise disappears with the music on would not be entirely correct. Anyone uncertain about it can play (with the sensitive headphones) the opening bars of Stravinsky's Firebird Introduction: the hiss nearly overwhelms the basses & celli playing quietly in the ppp mode.


 

 Sorry but what headphones are using?


----------



## fb24601

dark ayla said:


> I will
> 
> But keep in mind that the Oppo Ha-1 is a revealing amp. Some customers find it bright, so it is up to your taste.
> 
> I decided to get Burr Brown Conductor, this is due to the warm reputation of this DAC.


 
 no I don't mean to look into buying a ha-1, just for another class A may be with different circuit design (op-amp output?) will there be faint hiss sound for some of the headphones.


----------



## PetarCV

dark ayla said:


> Sorry but what headphones are using?


 

 Grado PS1000: they sound magnificent with Burr Brown Virtuoso (despite making a lot of hiss).


----------



## jamesng45678

How does the conductor compared to the Lehmann audio BCL USB?


----------



## Chik0240

fb24601 said:


> no I don't mean to look into buying a ha-1, just for another class A may be with different circuit design (op-amp output?) will there be faint hiss sound for some of the headphones.


 
 I think the oppo is a full discrete circuit also, I personally do LIKE the burson sound, but providing noticeable hiss in popular headphones for an dac/amp this price might well be a bit too much for me..


----------



## gogohuskies

I don't notice a hiss sound on 160D. Conductor should be way better than 160D in terms of price. I have D7000, which is a very sensitive headphone. Try a different USB cable and it might help clear the hiss sound.


----------



## fb24601

gogohuskies said:


> I don't notice a hiss sound on 160D. Conductor should be way better than 160D in terms of price. I have D7000, which is a very sensitive headphone. Try a different USB cable and it might help clear the hiss sound.


 
 The hiss sound, if any, is output section related (power, current), it is not from outside source. You can hear it when headphone is plugged and power is on, even if you remove the USB cable or stop any playback.


----------



## Chik0240

burson audio said:


> Read the review of the Conductor Virtuoso in Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity HERE including measurements that may throw some light on the class-A bias current.
> Thank you,
> Burson


 
  
 Dear Burson,
  
 No offense, I have to declare first I am still using the Soloist SL for my second rig amplification and is perfectly happy about the unit, no hiss or whatsoever similar is ever heard.
 But since I assume the Virtuoso is actually using the big soloist amp section, which I have heard with pitch black background, is also running in class A bias, so are there anything need to be investigated on why the updated circuit will have such a problem which didn't exist in the older models? Is this due to the opamp output section for the new volume control which is biased into class A and with unity gain compared to the old stepped attenuator?
 Coz I think at least some members here are really hold back by such a hiss problem which was not seen in old conductor and no review or reading about class A bias will relieve these people, since beside this the virtuoso looked to be the perfect unit for a bargain all rounder.
  
 Regards
 Sam


----------



## fb24601

As planned I have went to try the virtuoso demo unit and just focused on the background. Unfortunately at one shop which the environment is quiet enough they don't have lcd3, while for another shop which can provide lcd3 don't have a quiet enough environment due to the sound of an air circulation fan.
  
 I have tried audeze lcd-x, lcd-xc, lcd3, and fostex th500rp. For the lcd-x, lcd-xc, th500rp, there was a very faint hiss sound noticed when the power is on, the level are similar to my k812 (way lower than in case of th900). I consulted the shop manager and he thinks that the level of the hiss is very very low (which he considered almost none) and is acceptable as audiophile. I would comment that such very low level of hiss is still noticeable when you focus on it, but when music is on you will not be affected at all, but for some classical music as PeterCV mentioned, it is arguable.
  
 For lcd3, honestly I am not very sure if there is any hiss due to the environment. I try to focus on it and I feel there is some difference when compared with power off. But even IF there is, it is likely way lower than in case of lcd-x and lcd-xc and can be regarded as nil.
  
 I would like to hear further comments from other head-fiders, including that of Dark Ayla after he has received his virtuoso.
  
 P.S.
  
 lcd3 with open back sounds better than lcd-x and lcd-xc, if I have to swap into audeze I'll certainly choose lcd3


----------



## RubyTiger

Are there any review's comparing the new Virtuoso and the Original Conductor? I would like to hear a comparison. About headphones, nearly all work really well but I love the HD800 and it's synergy. A great matchup.


----------



## gogohuskies

Has anybody compared Conductor Virtuoso with hdvd 800? Or is there any other dac/amp combo in the same league?


----------



## fb24601

rubytiger said:


> Are there any review's comparing the new Virtuoso and the Original Conductor? I would like to hear a comparison. About headphones, nearly all work really well but I love the HD800 and it's synergy. A great matchup.


 
  It is valid, it seems that there is still no direct comparison between virtuoso and original conductor.


----------



## fb24601

gogohuskies said:


> Has anybody compared Conductor Virtuoso with hdvd 800? Or is there any other dac/amp combo in the same league?


 
 oppo ha1 is also ess9018 (dual chips) and also class A amp, price is a bit below virtuoso, but it have more input choice and with balanced output as dac and amp.


----------



## fb24601

okay this is inside of oppo


----------



## fb24601

Quite some quality amps out there only have one large transformer cap inside (SPL Phonitor 2, Lehmann Linear SE, Violectric HPA V281, Oppo HA-1). Two large caps can be seen inside virtuoso.


----------



## RubyTiger

> Originally Posted by *fb24601* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> okay this is inside of oppo


 
 Look's neat and tidy. One would think it's a much bigger unit that the Virtuoso/Conductor but Burson stack's their boards so it (Virtuoso) may very well be the same size or even bigger. Is the usb now free of the problems associated with the older units?
  
 I have noticed that Burson now has a presence on head-fi and I commend them for it. I hope they continue and answer questions about their new products!


----------



## velcrothrash

Does anyone know if the DAC modules that fit the original Conductor are swappable with the Virtuoso DAC modules? I have the Sabre and Burr Brown DAC boards for my Conductor and occasionally switch between them to see which DAC sounds better with a particular headphone. I'm guessing they're the same...


----------



## fb24601

I am actually selling my k812 and th900, and plan to pair the virtuoso with lcd3. Before getting the lcd3 I 
  
 can only do this at the moment...


----------



## musictoear

I just asked that same very question if the DACs are interchangeable with conductor SL and conductor virtuoso, and they said "YES, the DAC PCB is interchangeable with the Conductor SL."  So, I could assume that all conductor model would accept each other.  )
  
 I am getting mine on monday and can't wait to hear both of the DAC on the conductor virtuoso.


----------



## musictoear

if the hiss is the same on any volume "no matter", it could be the AC cord that needs to be better quality or it could be magnetic energy around the AMP/DAC.  I am no expert, but it seems to be stable hiss noise and I could only think of things surrounding the AMP/DAC.  If Burson is trying to capture analog sound quality, then the faint hissing noise ought to be expected.  Like an old record playing with scratch noise on it.  If you want no hiss noise, maybe Burson is no right for you.  I heard of Burson and sound coming out of them is crystal clear music.  I am waiting for my Burson Conductor virtuoso.


----------



## fb24601

musictoear said:


> if the hiss is the same on any volume "no matter", it could be the AC cord that needs to be better quality or it could be magnetic energy around the AMP/DAC.  I am no expert, but it seems to be stable hiss noise and I could only think of things surrounding the AMP/DAC.  If Burson is trying to capture analog sound quality, then the faint hissing noise ought to be expected.  Like an old record playing with scratch noise on it.  If you want no hiss noise, maybe Burson is no right for you.  I heard of Burson and sound coming out of them is crystal clear music.  I am waiting for my Burson Conductor virtuoso.


 
 Are you sure class A headphone amp must have hissing noise? I mean I really don't know, I just use cheaper op-amp model before...
  
 Seems conductor don't have the same issue, and also that was not mentioned for oppo ha1.


----------



## RubyTiger

Did I read that the hiss is present even when idle? Could it be your source causing this? I don't think trying to capture the analog (smoother, detailed and warmer) type sound would include hiss.
  
 The older Burson had what was described as a shiny background by 6moons but that was different all together. It was only present when the music was playing.
  
 Speaking of background noise  I found that certain power cords would remove this giving a black background. Regardless that was only a minor issue.
  
 You really should contact Burson on it as I can not imagine they would mass produce a unit such as that.
  
 Also, contact fellow head-fiers to see if they're having the same problem.


----------



## PetarCV

There is certainly a high amount of hiss with sensitive headphones.


----------



## fb24601

rubytiger said:


> Did I read that the hiss is present even when idle? Could it be your source causing this? I don't think trying to capture the analog (smoother, detailed and warmer) type sound would include hiss.
> 
> The older Burson had what was described as a shiny background by 6moons but that was different all together. It was only present when the music was playing.
> 
> ...


 
 The hiss is output related, it is presence even nothing is connected.
  
 I have tried wall plug and upgrade power cord and it is still there for low impedance headphones.


----------



## PetarCV

fb24601 said:


> The hiss is output related, it is presence even nothing is connected.
> 
> I have tried wall plug and upgrade power cord and it is still there for low impedance headphones.


 

 True.
  
 fb24601, I am curious about how it pairs with LCD-3, let us know when you get them! Btw, do you have the Sabre or Burr Brown version?


----------



## fb24601

petarcv said:


> True.
> 
> fb24601, I am curious about how it pairs with LCD-3, let us know when you get them! Btw, do you the Sabre or Burr Brown version?


 
  
 I like the 9018, it almost make my 16 bit old CDs shines like 24 bit. I have burr brown 1795 dac before, it is clean and wide, but resolution cannot match with 9018. 
  
 Will try to post some comment when I get the lcd3


----------



## Chik0240

fb24601 said:


> Are you sure class A headphone amp must have hissing noise? I mean I really don't know, I just use cheaper op-amp model before...
> 
> Seems conductor don't have the same issue, and also that was not mentioned for oppo ha1.


 
 Personally I don't think it's a class A thing..
  
 I own a Burson Soloist SL and a Auralic Taurus Mk II at the same time, and neither of them have any hiss present even for my occasional use with the UE900. and both of them are class A


----------



## MIKELAP

I have the original  Conductor  with ESS Sabre dac and never had a problem like that either


----------



## MIKELAP

Any of you Virtuoso owners run the amp with a PC and Vista my question is do you have all your sample rate that they say your suppose to have because with my Conductor when installing drivers i had to install them with Windows XP in compatibility mode and you end up missing 2 samplerates 88 and 176 was wondering if its still the  same with the Virtuoso           By the way  I am using CM6631 USB module


----------



## Burson Audio

mikelap said:


> Any of you Virtuoso owners run the amp with a PC and Vista my question is do you have all your sample rate that they say your suppose to have because with my Conductor when installing drivers i had to install them with Windows XP in compatibility mode and you end up missing 2 samplerates 88 and 176 was wondering if its still the  same with the Virtuoso


 
Will speak to engineering and see if they can help you.
Thanks,
Burson Audio


----------



## RubyTiger

That red sure is eye candy.


----------



## Joong

burson audio said:


> Since many of you have asked for comparisons between the Conductor Virtuoso and the previous Conductor, we're happy to announce that @mikemercer has written a full review HERE with just such comparisons on Steve Rochlin's @enjoythemusic. "_"While I enjoyed the original Conductor very much, the Virtuoso is on a whole other level when it comes to resolution. The way in which it handled micro and macro-dynamic detail retrieval sounded effortless. It also bests the original in its dimensional presentation. The Virtuoso is a special breed of solid-state electronics."_
> 
> Many thanks Michael!
> Thank you,
> Burson


 
  
 The old conductor has a suprizing scalability to the source quality and I really enjoy.
 I saw that your new one has the same DAC board and amp section as that of old one.
 The differences are seemingly the volume control through op-amp buffered output to eliminate the old clicking noises, and other possible interface elements, and the housing, goemetry of which might impact sound quality.
 Good structural integrity based on aluminum might allow only some resonnating components of electromagnetic wave to stay due to the empty space of the housing acting as cavity for the resonnating frequencies, whereas other field might be damped out due to lossy eddy environment of the conductive housing material.
 Those high frequency wave can be aliased back to lower range but still far away from audible frequency band...and so on...
  
 Those things are meerly guess.
  
 Could you guys explain more details for the engineering to persuade the head-fiers here.
 Those head-fiers have various back grounds for amp design, the EMC design, or other in-depth knowledges related to your products.
 Your technical explanation will be good thing.


----------



## musictoear

fb24601 said:


> Are you sure class A headphone amp must have hissing noise? I mean I really don't know, I just use cheaper op-amp model before...
> 
> Seems conductor don't have the same issue, and also that was not mentioned for oppo ha1.




Sorry, I do not mean that it should have a hiss noise. What I am saying is that noise to be heard is reasonable on any electronics. Maybe there is too much electronic near your amp/Dac of virtuoso. Burson website mention to not place anything stack on top of it and giving it room to breathe. Like I said, I am no expert. Sorry for any misunderstanding. 

I would try to get a monster AC cable, that might work but I am not sure. This is what I would do first. If the sound is still there only on IEM, I then would not use it on IEMs headphones. Sorry I am no help.


----------



## fb24601

musictoear said:


> Sorry, I do not mean that it should have a hiss noise. What I am saying is that noise to be heard is reasonable on any electronics. Maybe there is too much electronic near your amp/Dac of virtuoso. Burson website mention to not place anything stack on top of it and giving it room to breathe. Like I said, I am no expert. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
> 
> I would try to get a monster AC cable, that might work but I am not sure. This is what I would do first. If the sound is still there only on IEM, I then would not use it on IEMs headphones. Sorry I am no help.




Well i do not have other equipments near the virtuoso, and nothing on top of it. The hiss is not only on iem but also on low impedance headphones.


----------



## musictoear

fb24601 said:


> Well i do not have other equipments near the virtuoso, and nothing on top of it. The hiss is not only on iem but also on low impedance headphones.


 

 mine will be here on monday and I will try my iem and see what I could hear.  I am listening most of my music thru my fiilo e17 and home stereo but with my HD 650 and hd600.  I use my iem with my iPhone and iPods.  I do not see the use of a headphone amp on IEM.  But if the hiss is of concern, then the best people to know and inform you of Burson is Burson company itself.  
 I cannot wait to hear it and let you know.


----------



## fb24601

musictoear said:


> mine will be here on monday and I will try my iem and see what I could hear.  I am listening most of my music thru my fiilo e17 and home stereo but with my HD 650 and hd600.  I use my iem with my iPhone and iPods.  I do not see the use of a headphone amp on IEM.  But if the hiss is of concern, then the best people to know and inform you of Burson is Burson company itself.
> I cannot wait to hear it and let you know.


 
 I have tried ie800 and the hiss is similar to th900 and less than k3003.
  
 Just curious if the smaller Conductor SL will have hiss on iem, actually I am interested to buy Conductor SL for iem for another location. The Virtuoso will pair with full size headphones.


----------



## musictoear

for the conductor sl, Parts Connexion has a really good deal going on now.  You should check it out and ask Chris about the product.  He is very knowledgeable about the products he sell and hope he could help you with your questions.


----------



## Burson Audio

Visit Burson at the Head-Fi SoCal CanJam this weekend, March 28th/29th at the Westen South Coast Plaza in Costa Mesa. We look forward to seeing you and demonstrating the Conductor Virtuoso.


----------



## RubyTiger

burson audio said:


> Visit Burson at the Head-Fi SoCal CanJam this weekend, March 28th/29th at the Westen South Coast Plaza in Costa Mesa. We look forward to seeing you and demonstrating the Conductor Virtuoso.


 

 Non related but, where can I download the latest drivers for the Tenor Burson Conductor?


----------



## HeyWaj10

Have you tried their website?


----------



## porridgecup

If anyone's tried the Conductor with a pre-Fazor LCD 2.2, how is the sound compared to other amps with the same cans?
  
 Also interested in the same comparison for the latest (post-Fazor) LCD 3.


----------



## Otheronek

I have to say first I love Headfi I have learned so much.  As a potential customer who is about to pull the trigger on a Headfi station.. not just an amp.... multiple amps plus dac I am very glad I read this thread.  I heard the original Conductor and liked it, however to read about the issues with noise in the new model just blows me away.  I read a lot of down playing and justifying of why the noise is there....while I understand everyone hears differently let me say this "noise is noise", that's it.  For an amp that costs as much as a Virtuoso to not work with a good number of headphones that are popular in the field boggles my mind and to me is unacceptable.  thanks....for helping maximize my dollar and spending it wisely.   Peace OOK


----------



## fb24601

I have bought a lcd-3 today intending to pair up with the virtuoso. My virtuoso is at other location so I go back to the shop that provide the virtuoso for testing, the one with more quiet environment but which do not have lcd-3 demo unit.
  
 I can now confirm that there is no subtle hiss for lcd-3 in background, it is perfectly silent. I suppose lcd-2 should also perform the same. The shop also provide me T1 to test and also it is silent without any background noise. Of course T1 has almost higest impedance at 600 Ohm, and for lcd-3 it is 110 Ohm.
  
 Too bad to get rid of the k812 with flying sound on virtuoso. Just hoping lcd-3 can be as dynamic as k812.
  
 P.S.
 I have also tried ie800 iem on conductor SL at another shop. There is no hiss. I suppose there also won't be any on full size headphones even sensitive ones.


----------



## RubyTiger

otheronek said:


> I have to say first I love Headfi I have learned so much.  As a potential customer who is about to pull the trigger on a Headfi station.. not just an amp.... multiple amps plus dac I am very glad I read this thread.  I heard the original Conductor and liked it, however to read about the issues with noise in the new model just blows me away.  I read a lot of down playing and justifying of why the noise is there....while I understand everyone hears differently let me say this "noise is noise", that's it.  For an amp that costs as much as a Virtuoso to not work with a good number of headphones that are popular in the field boggles my mind and to me is unacceptable.  thanks....for helping maximize my dollar and spending it wisely.   Peace OOK


 

 I think your moving on to soon. I'm a bit confused as to whether we're talking all units or one in particular. Burson has never built a product that would not work with all headphones. I suggested earlier to contact Burson on the issue and it might be prudent to wait before making a decision. I'm not making excuses for them but you might miss out on a great product.  Just saying.


----------



## fb24601

I 





rubytiger said:


> I think your moving on to soon. I'm a bit confused as to whether we're talking all units or one in particular. Burson has never built a product that would not work with all headphones. I suggested earlier to contact Burson on the issue and it might be prudent to wait before making a decision. I'm not making excuses for them but you might miss out on a great product.  Just saying.




I have tried 3 different units of virtuoso with k812 and th900 and each produce hiss sound, with k812 a very subtle but audible one and th900 a quite significant one, consistently. I have also tried lcd-x, lcd-xc at 2 different locations and results are the similar to k812. Several other users also suggested similar experience. If it is only individual cases I would be more than happy and hope my exsting one can also be tuned to pair with low impedance ones. I really like how it drives k812, let's see.


----------



## PetarCV

It's not an individual case for sure. PS1000 are like TH900, they make a loud background hiss. Another user here said the same for LCD-X.
  
 fb24061, any initial impressions of the LCD-3 with the Virtuoso? How do they sound compared to K812?


----------



## fb24601

The hiss on lcd-x is not loud actually. To me it is similar to k812 and lcd-xc, very subtle one but still audible when comparing with power off.

I don't have virtuoso with me at the moment, will try on Monday when I get back to the location with the virtuoso. I think I'll spend some time to burn in first.

Gone my k812, it is most comfortable to wear among flagships and surely more comfortable than lcd3...


----------



## Chik0240

rubytiger said:


> I think your moving on to soon. I'm a bit confused as to whether we're talking all units or one in particular. Burson has never built a product that would not work with all headphones. I suggested earlier to contact Burson on the issue and it might be prudent to wait before making a decision. I'm not making excuses for them but you might miss out on a great product.  Just saying.


 
 I think a Burson representative have responded in this thread a couple times in this thread saying that it's related to the choice of making the virtuoso with a high performance all discrete class A circuitry without using opamp and keep pointing into something like to learn more on their design philosophy etc. Which to me is not really convincing.. as I am still using the Soloist SL on my second rig and enjoys it vastly with even the UE 900 iem without any hiss, which the SL is just a cut down version of the original Conductor amp section. I also use an Auralic Taurus Mk II in my main rig, which is also class A (seemed with some opamp in input section though, but I know it's an unfair comparison, since it's a $1899 amp compared to the Soloist $990).
  
 Maybe it's something going wrong with the new TI volume control or the decision to eliminate the gain setting switch, just based on the changes published by Burson comparing with their old conductor. Hope Burson could fix this soon and not wasting a otherwise very great product


----------



## xident

fb24601 said:


> The hiss on lcd-x is not loud actually. To me it is similar to k812 and lcd-xc, very subtle one but still audible when comparing with power off.


 
 I'll second that: With the LCD-X it is audible but very subtle.
  
 I am listening to Virtuoso + LCD-X about 5 hours a day every day and loving it. I have another $1500 headphone amplifier with a lower noise floor (Fosgate Signature Headamp hybrid/tubes) but i still choose the Virtuoso nine out of ten times. Love the power and dynamics i get with this pairing, and the volume control on the remote is very nice to have when i am horizontal on the couch relaxing to music  just out of reach of the amps.


----------



## fb24601

xident said:


> I'll second that: With the LCD-X it is audible but very subtle.
> 
> I am listening to Virtuoso + LCD-X about 5 hours a day every day and loving it. I have another $1500 headphone amplifier with a lower noise floor (Fosgate Signature Headamp hybrid/tubes) but i still choose the Virtuoso nine out of ten times. Love the power and dynamics i get with this pairing, and the volume control on the remote is very nice to have when i am horizontal on the couch relaxing to music  just out of reach of the amps.




Can choose to swap into lcd3 like I do…


----------



## xident

Only had the LCD-X a little over two weeks, but so far I am really enjoying it and I feel my current setup is something I can enjoy and live with for a long time! For now the GAS is in check and I am just enjoying the music...


----------



## Adamora

Forgive me lord for I have sinned.


----------



## musictoear

I cannot wait to get the virtuoso and pairing it with my Audeze el-8 and lcd-2 and -3.  Love Audeze headphones.  However, I chose the virtuoso over the Audeze Deckard because I think it will sound better with all my headphones and not just the Audeze.  The price is twice as much.  I also bought the other sabre DAC 9018.  I cannot wait as their sound from the Virtuoso would be pure music.  I am using it with Amarra SQ and Amarra 3.0!!!!!!  WOW!!!!!


----------



## Adamora

musictoear said:


> I cannot wait to get the virtuoso and pairing it with my Audeze el-8 and lcd-2 and -3.  Love Audeze headphones.  However, I chose the virtuoso over the Audeze Deckard because I think it will sound better with all my headphones and not just the Audeze.  The price is twice as much.  I also bought the other sabre DAC 9018.  I cannot wait as their sound from the Virtuoso would be pure music.  I am using it with Amarra SQ and Amarra 3.0!!!!!!  WOW!!!!!


 
  
 Congratulations ;-;!
  
 Impressions or death.


----------



## fb24601

musictoear said:


> I cannot wait to get the virtuoso and pairing it with my Audeze el-8 and lcd-2 and -3.  Love Audeze headphones.  However, I chose the virtuoso over the Audeze Deckard because I think it will sound better with all my headphones and not just the Audeze.  The price is twice as much.  I also bought the other sabre DAC 9018.  I cannot wait as their sound from the Virtuoso would be pure music.  I am using it with Amarra SQ and Amarra 3.0!!!!!!  WOW!!!!!




Hi musictoear, please share any comparison on burr brown 1793a and the sabre ess9018 dac board on virtuoso then...appreciated


----------



## fb24601

hi





adamora said:


> Congratulations ;-;!
> 
> Impressions or death.


 

Hi Adamora, what headphone you are using to pair with the virtuoso?


----------



## musictoear

adamora said:


> Congratulations ;-;!
> 
> Impressions or death.


 

 Thank you!!!  I am happy so far.  which headphones do you use with your virtuoso?


----------



## musictoear

fb24601 said:


> Hi musictoear, please share any comparison on burr brown 1793a and the sabre ess9018 dac board on virtuoso then...appreciated


 

 Hello fb24601,
  
 I will post my findings in the post after I listen to them for a couple days!!!  I am excited and thanks for asking.  I am no expert, but I will give my findings here and what I like between them.


----------



## musictoear

fb24601 said:


> Hi musictoear, please share any comparison on burr brown 1793a and the sabre ess9018 dac board on virtuoso then...appreciated


 

 Hello fb24601,
  
 Are you still hearing the noise from your IEM, k3003??  I am very curious what noise you are talking about.  I bought the monster cable 300 for the AC cable and I hope that will prevent noise from coming into the hp due to electric static in the area with my computer, amp/dac, and other electrical equipment that is close by.


----------



## fb24601

musictoear said:


> Hello fb24601,
> 
> Are you still hearing the noise from your IEM, k3003??  I am very curious what noise you are talking about.  I bought the monster cable 300 for the AC cable and I hope that will prevent noise from coming into the hp due to electric static in the area with my computer, amp/dac, and other electrical equipment that is close by.




I think virtuoso is too powerful for iem and not designed for them. There is loud hiss for k3003 and considerable hiss for ie800. You can try on it when you received your unit.

I find that conductor sl can deal with iem. I may buy another conductor sl 9018 in near future to use for another location


----------



## musictoear

fb24601 said:


> I think virtuoso is too powerful for iem and not designed for them. There is loud hiss for k3003 and considerable hiss for ie800. You can try on it when you received your unit.
> 
> I find that conductor sl can deal with iem. I may buy another conductor sl 9018 in near future to use for another location


 

 wow!! 2 conductor SL?!  Great for you.  The conductor SL is 2 watts per 16 ohms and conductor virtuoso is 4 watts per 16 ohms.  That is why I waited for the Virtuoso. Are you planning to get the Burr Brown 1793 DAC with your 9018?  Yes, probably, virtuoso are not for IEM and for headphones that need more power.  That is a great observation.  IEMs are very efficient with iPhones or iPods.  I hope you find the AMP/DAC perfect for your setup.


----------



## fb24601

musictoear said:


> wow!! 2 conductor SL?!  Great for you.  The conductor SL is 2 watts per 16 ohms and conductor virtuoso is 4 watts per 16 ohms.  That is why I waited for the Virtuoso. Are you planning to get the Burr Brown 1793 DAC with your 9018?  Yes, probably, virtuoso are not for IEM and for headphones that need more power.  That is a great observation.  IEMs are very efficient with iPhones or iPods.  I hope you find the AMP/DAC perfect for your setup.




nope my virtuoso is now pairing with lcd3, just to consider to get another sl with less power.

I am using burr brown 1795 dac before (sony uda1, pha2), it is clean and musical. I also heard pioneer u05 demo unit with sabre ess9016 several times, it is very sharp and wide but a bit rigid. I like the way burson makes ess9018 so full of details yet musical and liquid flow.

Yes normally dap is good enough for iem, but I also like the way deck amp driving iem over its limit. The bass extension for iem on deck amp could be fairy insane.....


----------



## Adamora

fb24601 said:


> hi
> 
> 
> Hi Adamora, what headphone you are using to pair with the virtuoso?


 
  
  


musictoear said:


> Thank you!!!  I am happy so far.  which headphones do you use with your virtuoso?


 
  
 LCD-2 :3


----------



## RubyTiger

ah, this is what I like to see. Enthusiasm, joy and satisfaction. The older Burson Conductor had it's share of problems to be sure but none of them kept me from enjoying the unit night after night. Congratulations to all of you and I must admit I'm a bit jealous of the 100 step attenuator and remote control. By the way, what type of usb interface does the Virtuoso have?


----------



## musictoear

rubytiger said:


> ah, this is what I like to see. Enthusiasm, joy and satisfaction. The older Burson Conductor had it's share of problems to be sure but none of them kept me from enjoying the unit night after night. Congratulations to all of you and I must admit I'm a bit jealous of the 100 step attenuator and remote control. By the way, what type of usb interface does the Virtuoso have?




Cm6631 usb.


----------



## MIKELAP

musictoear said:


> rubytiger said:
> 
> 
> > ah, this is what I like to see. Enthusiasm, joy and satisfaction. The older Burson Conductor had it's share of problems to be sure but none of them kept me from enjoying the unit night after night. Congratulations to all of you and I must admit I'm a bit jealous of the 100 step attenuator and remote control. By the way, what type of usb interface does the Virtuoso have?
> ...


 
 Thats what i have in original 4wpc Conductor works good got it as an upgrade  from Tenor ,clicks when samplerate changes but works good only thing i have to remember is to close player first then the Conductor because sometimes the player freezes.


----------



## porridgecup

Is there any reason why some people prefer the Soloist with an external DAC over the Conductor(s)? I'd imagine the DAC inside pairs well with the amp, and for space/convenience/price sake I'd prefer an amp/DAC combo, personally. Is there a good argument for preferring the Soloist + some other DAC over the Conductor?
  
 For reference, I'm interested in driving a pair of pre-Fazor LCD 2.2 phones.


----------



## musictoear

OH MY GOSH!  The sound from the virtuoso is crystal clear!!  I am using it with Audeze LCD-3, I have both DAC:  
 The 1793 is very musical as people say.  it just, very smooth and not as rough. with my Audeze, it makes my head move with Michael Jackson "Billy Jean".
 The 9018, each instrument is very clear and separates well.  It tends to hit the ear more harder.  The bass is awesome and great bunch! With "Beat It", it makes my feet tap!!!
  
 I do not hear the hiss noise people are talking about with my LCD-3.  However, my volume is "zero" on the virtuoso and plugged in my Shure IEM, yes, there is a constant hissing noise.  Even with the song playing, the hiss is still in the background.  As I do not have anything around the virtuoso except my laptop, table, and headset.  
  
 Yes, the hissing noise is there.  Not quite sure what does is about.  But with the powerful amp, it drives the IEM over the top.  The volume I have the virtuoso is only 10 and it is almost as loud as my LCD-3 connected at 43.  
  
 I still love it because I do not plan to use the virtuoso with IEMs, just my open back headsets that need power to amplify.


----------



## musictoear

porridgecup said:


> Is there any reason why some people prefer the Soloist with an external DAC over the Conductor(s)? I'd imagine the DAC inside pairs well with the amp, and for space/convenience/price sake I'd prefer an amp/DAC combo, personally. Is there a good argument for preferring the Soloist + some other DAC over the Conductor?
> 
> For reference, I'm interested in driving a pair of pre-Fazor LCD 2.2 phones.


 

 well, I think some people like different sounds and having a different DAC will suit them better.  Like the virtuoso and conductor SL, you can buy an extra DAC that you can interchange, the burr brown 1793 and the sabre ess 9018.  You could read all about it, just google search the DACs.  I cannot remember where I have read it, but there is a review between the 2 DACS.  Burton Soloist is a very superb Amp and for the price you cannot find a better amp.


----------



## fb24601

Congratulations musictohear!

My lcd3 (fazor) is new and I am still burning in with the virtuoso.

The combo is great. I think virtuoso can be the end game for a solid state single end system.


----------



## musictoear

fb24601 said:


> Congratulations musictohear!
> 
> My lcd3 (fazor) is new and I am still burning in with the virtuoso.
> 
> The combo is great. I think virtuoso can be the end game for a solid state single end system.


 

 Oh, so you decide to keep the virtuoso??  are you still buying the conductor SL for your other location? I totally agree with you that the combo with LCD-3 is great.  Are you going to still use your virtuoso with your IEMs, K3003?  
  
 I don't believe in break-in period.  It sounds perfect out of the box!  and if break-in is needed, then it will sound so much better.  
  
 Congratulations with your set up!!!


----------



## fb24601

musictoear said:


> Oh, so you decide to keep the virtuoso??  are you still buying the conductor SL for your other location? I totally agree with you that the combo with LCD-3 is great.  Are you going to still use your virtuoso with your IEMs, K3003?
> 
> I don't believe in break-in period.  It sounds perfect out of the box!  and if break-in is needed, then it will sound so much better.
> 
> Congratulations with your set up!!!


 
  
 Sure I'll stick with the virtuoso, otherwise I won't buy the lcd3 to pair with it.
  
 I won't use iem with the virtuoso but I may test the effect with some add on impedancer for iem with it. I still plan to buy the conductor SL. To discipline my budget I may sell my k3003 and ie800 and keep the more versatile all rounder noble k10 universal.


----------



## RubyTiger

porridgecup said:


> Is there any reason why some people prefer the Soloist with an external DAC over the Conductor(s)? I'd imagine the DAC inside pairs well with the amp, and for space/convenience/price sake I'd prefer an amp/DAC combo, personally. Is there a good argument for preferring the Soloist + some other DAC over the Conductor?
> 
> For reference, I'm interested in driving a pair of pre-Fazor LCD 2.2 phones.


 

 I think it go's back to an old review when the Burson Conductor all in one was new to the market. Burson was known previously for a great amp and the reviewer found that the Conductor's dac didn't quite cut the mustard. So he bypassed the dac with a more expensive one and liked it much better.
  
 Money talk's you know and the Conductor's dac fell in the $1000.00 class so there's more gains to be had. With the Soloist you get a great amp and the dac is of your choice. At least that's how I remember it.
  
 Personally I found the original Coducters dac to be very good but strangled by a poor usb implementation. It only lacks the umpteenth refinement of much more expensive dac's. I added the Audiophilleo 2 with pure power with mine and it's stunning.


----------



## Sweetmeat

porridgecup said:


> Is there any reason why some people prefer the Soloist with an external DAC over the Conductor(s)? I'd imagine the DAC inside pairs well with the amp, and for space/convenience/price sake I'd prefer an amp/DAC combo, personally. Is there a good argument for preferring the Soloist + some other DAC over the Conductor?
> 
> For reference, I'm interested in driving a pair of pre-Fazor LCD 2.2 phones.


 

 There are advantages in keeping the DAC separate from the amp. DACs tend to become obsolete much quicker than amplifiers, due to new formats and technologies. However my Soloist will remain one of the best SS amps out there for years to come. Also some folks (not me) need special control features that the Conductor cannot provide. And I agree with RubyTiger that the Conductor's USB input is not up to the quality of its DAC and amplifier sections.


----------



## fb24601

petarcv said:


> It's not an individual case for sure. PS1000 are like TH900, they make a loud background hiss. Another user here said the same for LCD-X.
> 
> fb24061, any initial impressions of the LCD-3 with the Virtuoso? How do they sound compared to K812?


 
  
 Hi PetarCV,
  
 Some impressions on lcd3, I feel the lcd3 more solid in the lower spectrum and smooth to the top, making it a feeling of lush and more of a coherent sound as some people described. May be due to fazor I won't feel its treble being rolled off or the sound stage is narrow. Sure k812 has better airness and sound stage overall. 
  
 It do feels a bit laid back which for k812 I feel burson driving it to limit and moving faster. I had been using silver gold upgrade cable for k812 and may be it contributes some advantage to it. Will look around some upgrade cable for lcd3 later.
  
 The construction is very robust and surely better than k812 in durability, materials looks better, but it is a bit heavy.


----------



## fb24601

sweetmeat said:


> There are advantages in keeping the DAC separate from the amp. DACs tend to become obsolete much quicker than amplifiers, due to new formats and technologies. However my Soloist will remain one of the best SS amps out there for years to come. Also some folks (not me) need special control features that the Conductor cannot provide. And I agree with RubyTiger that the Conductor's USB input is not up to the quality of its DAC and amplifier sections.


 
  
 Well at least Burson seems to make removable USB and DAC modules. Both can be upgraded in future when available.....
  
 Most expensive dac out there has XLR output for constructing a balance system. For a single end system it may not be very necessary.


----------



## fb24601

So here is the look of the setup.....


----------



## MIKELAP

burson audio said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Any of you Virtuoso owners run the amp with a PC and Vista my question is do you have all your sample rate that they say your suppose to have because with my Conductor when installing drivers i had to install them with Windows XP in compatibility mode and you end up missing 2 samplerates 88 and 176 was wondering if its still the  same with the Virtuoso
> ...


 
 So any news with the  driver issues  and missing samplerates when using Vista.and 4WPC Conductor   Thanks


----------



## PetarCV

fb24601 said:


> So here is the look of the setup.....


 
 Looks awesome! Any changes in the sound of LCD-3 after the break-in? Is there any background hiss at all?


----------



## fb24601

petarcv said:


> Looks awesome! Any changes in the sound of LCD-3 after the break-in? Is there any background hiss at all?


 
 As have been mentioned earlier, sure no hiss for lcd3.
  
 Yea it is more enjoyable after some running, still adapting to its sound signature, a fuller sound but lesser sound stage.....(than k812)
  
 I think lcd3 is better for me than lcdx, the lcdx is somewhat lighter and brigther in sound.


----------



## fb24601

I did it...the conductor SL 9018, surely more than extreme for iem, but why not.


----------



## Sweetmeat

fb24601 said:


> I did it...the conductor SL 9018, surely more than extreme for iem, but why not.


 
  
 The Conductor pairs well with many headphones, with the possible exception of sensitive IEMs.
  
 Big power = big supply which sits unshielded right in the same box. That noise can be heard by IEMs.
  
 You're halfway there, get yourself a nice pair of over-ears IMHO. But if you like the IEMs with Conductor that's great.


----------



## musictoear

fb24601 said:


> I did it...the conductor SL 9018, surely more than extreme for iem, but why not.




Wow!! Congratulations! You did it! You bought the SL. Which at 2 watts into 16 ohms is much better for IEM than 4 watts into 16 ohms. That was my debate on the 2 conductors. Glad you found the perfect pair with your IEMs. Enjoy and let us know who you like it with your k3003i IEMs. When I place my el-8 into the conductor virtuoso, it had no hiss. But when I put my Shure iems, you could hear the hiss. 
Anyways, enjoy!


----------



## fb24601

sweetmeat said:


> The Conductor pairs well with many headphones, with the possible exception of sensitive IEMs.
> 
> Big power = big supply which sits unshielded right in the same box. That noise can be heard by IEMs.
> 
> You're halfway there, get yourself a nice pair of over-ears IMHO. But if you like the IEMs with Conductor that's great.




For SL version, low gain and anything around 9-10 o'clock volume is good enough for sensitive iem, no hiss, pitch black background, just push to limit no rough sound.

Sure won't play around with iem with the virtuoso.


----------



## parbaked

burson audio said:


> In the previous Conductor the idle current was optimised for the mid-gain level and the noise floor of the previous Conductor reflected that.


 
 Is the older HA-160D optimized for the High or Low headphone jack?


----------



## RubyTiger

Can the Virtuoso's internal dac be bypassed for use with an external dac? Same question for the Conductor's?


----------



## fb24601

rubytiger said:


> Can the Virtuoso's internal dac be bypassed for use with an external dac? Same question for the Conductor's?




yes both can be used as amp only by using the rca input


----------



## RubyTiger

fb24601 said:


> yes both can be used as amp only by using the rca input


 

 Thanks. New dac's coming and my other amp's delayed. I like the fact you don't have to wait for a Burson.


----------



## MIKELAP

Anybody with CM6631A USB module and using WINDOWS VISTA find a way to download driver usually to install driver i have to use XP in compatibily mode because theres no Vista folder even if Burson says there is . i downloaded there driver install it with XP and when i go to device i only have 2 samplerates  16/44,100 hz and 16/192,000hz i had installed it before a couple years ago and i had 2 missing samplerates 88.2 and 176,4 . i have the 4wpc Conductor . Anybody have this problem and found a solution .Thanks


----------



## Burson Audio

rubytiger said:


> Can the Virtuoso's internal dac be bypassed for use with an external dac? Same question for the Conductor's?


 
  
Hi there RubyTiger! Received your PM but thought to reply out in the open. You certainly can use the Conductor Virtuoso as a headphone amp alone, just go in through it's RCA analog inputs rather than USB. Burson Audio wants you to be happy and enjoy your music your way. Naturally we recommend comparing your current DAC with the interchangeable 9018 Sabre DAC offering a rich, wideband and dynamic sound, or the underappreciated and ultra-musical Burr Brown PCM1793. They pair extremely well with the Audeze EL-8 open and closed-back headphones as well as the rest of the LCD series.  
  
On what basis do we recommend you compare our available DACs with an external DAC? It's very straightforward. The Conductor Virtuoso is all class-A, fully discrete circuitry, no op-amps. You can't customize a chip with 50 or more circuits crammed into a tiny space, many having nothing to do with audio reproduction, with puny chemical traces. But you can customize, impedance-match, optimize signals and create matching input-to-output throughput with all-discrete circuits than with any chip or op-amp could ever manage. Op-amps and chips are great for computers, not so great for audio. Feel free to find out more at www.BursonAudio.com.
  
Several reviews coming up, more in the pipeline, we'll let you know when they publish. 
  
Thank you,
Burson Audio


----------



## Burson Audio

mikelap said:


> Anybody with CM6631A USB module and using WINDOWS VISTA find a way to download driver usually to install driver i have to use XP in compatibily mode because theres no Vista folder even if Burson says there is . i downloaded there driver install it with XP and when i go to device i only have 2 samplerates  16/44,100 hz and 16/192,000hz i had installed it before a couple years ago and i had 2 missing samplerates 88.2 and 176,4 . i have the 4wpc Conductor . Anybody have this problem and found a solution .Thanks


 
  
Hi, have passed your question onto engineering and we'll get you some answers.
Thanks for your patience,
Burson Audio


----------



## musictoear

burson audio said:


> Hi there RubyTiger! Received your PM but thought to reply out in the open. You certainly can use the Conductor Virtuoso as a headphone amp alone, just go in through it's RCA analog inputs rather than USB. Burson Audio wants you to be happy and enjoy your music your way. Naturally we recommend comparing your current DAC with the interchangeable 9018 Sabre DAC offering a rich, wideband and dynamic sound, or the underappreciated and ultra-musical Burr Brown PCM1793. They pair extremely well with the Audeze EL-8 open and closed-back headphones as well as the rest of the LCD series.
> 
> On what basis do we recommend you compare our available DACs with an external DAC? It's very straightforward. The Conductor Virtuoso is all class-A, fully discrete circuitry, no op-amps. You can't customize a chip with 50 or more circuits crammed into a tiny space, many having nothing to do with audio reproduction, with puny chemical traces. But you can customize, impedance-match, optimize signals and create matching input-to-output throughput with all-discrete circuits than with any chip or op-amp could ever manage. Op-amps and chips are great for computers, not so great for audio. Feel free to find out more at www.BursonAudio.com.
> 
> ...


 

 with the burton conductor virtuoso, I have used all my LCD 2 and 3 and the el-8, sounds awesome and very clear and crisp with both 9018 and 1793 DAC.  This is a power machine!!!  I think this is one of my best amp/dac to date.!!!!


----------



## RubyTiger

burson audio said:


> Hi there RubyTiger! Received your PM but thought to reply out in the open. You certainly can use the Conductor Virtuoso as a headphone amp alone, just go in through it's RCA analog inputs rather than USB. Burson Audio wants you to be happy and enjoy your music your way. Naturally we recommend comparing your current DAC with the interchangeable 9018 Sabre DAC offering a rich, wideband and dynamic sound, or the underappreciated and ultra-musical Burr Brown PCM1793. They pair extremely well with the Audeze EL-8 open and closed-back headphones as well as the rest of the LCD series.
> 
> On what basis do we recommend you compare our available DACs with an external DAC? It's very straightforward. The Conductor Virtuoso is all class-A, fully discrete circuitry, no op-amps. You can't customize a chip with 50 or more circuits crammed into a tiny space, many having nothing to do with audio reproduction, with puny chemical traces. But you can customize, impedance-match, optimize signals and create matching input-to-output throughput with all-discrete circuits than with any chip or op-amp could ever manage. Op-amps and chips are great for computers, not so great for audio. Feel free to find out more at www.BursonAudio.com.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I thank you for that. I really love the detail of the 9018 Sabre dac. Thumb's up.
  
 Also, the new dac is not meant for the Conductor; the pairing only temporary as I feel the Conductor is complete as is.


----------



## MIKELAP

burson audio said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody with CM6631A USB module and using WINDOWS VISTA find a way to download driver usually to install driver i have to use XP in compatibily mode because theres no Vista folder even if Burson says there is . i downloaded there driver install it with XP and when i go to device i only have 2 samplerates  16/44,100 hz and 16/192,000hz i had installed it before a couple years ago and i had 2 missing samplerates 88.2 and 176,4 . i have the 4wpc Conductor . Anybody have this problem and found a solution .Thanks
> ...


 
 Problem was that i wanted to update driver in devices in Vista  but (update driver ) was not enabled so i could not update driver downloaded driver several time without success only had 2 samplerates up until i deactivated (user account control) redownloaded driver from your page but your driver is not the latest one but this time (update driver ) was enabled and i updated to the latest driver but i am still missing 88 and 176 samplerates .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Always been like that since installing CM6631A USB module when it came out and also only works with WASAPI now .TENOR used ASIO.


----------



## WALL-E

Out of curiosity, most of time my Burson is hook to iMac so no driver needed no hassle at all but from time to time wants to bring my amp to bedroom and then connect with laptop so the question is, which Output Mode ASIO or WASAPI on player has to be chosen to obtain the best possible audio quality and performance with the C-Media USB module & Sabre DAC version of Conductor with Windows 7, or newer?


----------



## fb24601

wall-e said:


> Out of curiosity, most of time my Burson is hook to iMac so no driver needed no hassle at all but from time to time wants to bring my amp to bedroom and then connect with laptop so the question is, which Output Mode ASIO or WASAPI on player has to be chosen to obtain the best possible audio quality and performance with the C-Media USB module & Sabre DAC version of Conductor with Windows 7, or newer?


 
 It won't be night and day difference but according to my research most PC foobar2000 head-fiers recommend WASAPI plugin.


----------



## quangngaicity (Feb 3, 2018)

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----------



## RubyTiger

Does the C-Media & driver work with JRiver media center? I had issue's with the older Conductors tenor chip. Before the C-Media's release I bought the AP2 with pure power and no more issue's. Still, one day I would like to upgrade the usb section.


----------



## MIKELAP

rubytiger said:


> Does the C-Media & driver work with JRiver media center? I had issue's with the older Conductors tenor chip. Before the C-Media's release I bought the AP2 with pure power and no more issue's. Still, one day I would like to upgrade the usb section.


 
 Personnaly using CM 6631A with MUSICBEE and WASAPI works great and worked great with TENOR and ASIO also cant use ASIO with CMEDIA Only thing is the order that you open or shutoff player or amp .I always turn amp on first then player and to close ,player first then amp if i close amp first sometimes player freezes.


----------



## Joong

Burson Audio has some plane for upgrading the DAC section for Classic model?
 Conductor has been criticized for the relative-weak link.
 If they do a plan for it, then they can keep their existing customers and it might open new chance for that business.
 Considerable people like the minimalist approach of audio design of Burson, and faithfully stay with classical version of Conductors.
  
 Somebody offers 900 USD for my old conductor, and I was a bit surprised at that offer.
 Because some regards Conductor as old fashioned one and the price is deemed OK.
 But the owner of the product might be dismayed for the low price, in the fact that life span of usual electronics is way more than 10 years.
  
 Burson Audio should listen to this as they claimed their product an upgradable or at least future protection as technology evolves.


----------



## Burson Audio

mikelap said:


> So any news with the  driver issues  and missing samplerates when using Vista.and 4WPC Conductor   Thanks


 
  
Hi Mike, sorry to take a while, the engineer was out of the country.
  
It’s a little tricky. Windows XP is a 32-bit operating system and Vista is a hybrid, not fully 64-bit and not fully 32-bit. Here’s a Wiki entry that delves into the problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista
  
It’s the hybrid Vista OS that becomes an issue when installing the 32-bit driver in compatibility mode. When installing to Win 7 (a native 64-bit system) or Win XP (a native 32-bit system) there are no issues we're aware of.
  
if at all possible we suggest an upgrade to Win 7 or 8 might be in order because of better driver compatibility to be sure, but also for its superior playback software support. For example the latest version of Foobar2000 can take advantage of 64-bit systems with greater memory bandwidth for reduced playback latency yielding better performance.
 
Stay in touch and let us know what you decide to do and good luck.
Thanks,
Burson Audio


----------



## MIKELAP

burson audio said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > So any news with the  driver issues  and missing samplerates when using Vista.and 4WPC Conductor   Thanks
> ...


 
 Thanks for that ,then maybe you should remove Vista from your list of compatible OS ,because you have to use Vista with XL in compatibilty mode anyways to install driver or atleast explain how to install the drivers and the consequences related to that (missing samplerates).Will upgrade to W7 in a near future .Thanks


----------



## fb24601

Just found out the android app USB Audio Player Pro can actually output into Burson usb port. Now can have more options to do with player.


----------



## RubyTiger

fb24601 said:


> Just found out the android app USB Audio Player Pro can actually output into Burson usb port. Now can have more options to do with player.


 

 I'm not familiar with Android devices (still living in the dark ages) but in effect your using the battery powered Android as a digital source? How does it sound?


----------



## luisandre

Hello to all!
  
 I have a Marantz PM8005 integrated amp that have besides the normal RCA inputs, a POWER AMP Direct in.
 The Conductor Virtuoso have DAC-OUT and PRE-OUT.
  
 What is the best way to connect it to my Marantz?
  
 DAC-OUT to RCA input ou PRE-OUT to POWER AMP Direct input?
  
 The DAC-OUT is a line level that should connect to the RCA in the integrated amp right?
 But for superior sound quality, I assume I can use the Burson as a Pre-Amp connected to the Power Amp direct in.
  
 Thank you very much for your help!!
 André


----------



## fb24601

rubytiger said:


> I'm not familiar with Android devices (still living in the dark ages) but in effect your using the battery powered Android as a digital source? How does it sound?


 
 It is better than I expected, as good as the PC usb. Certainly it is audiophile grade but better be setting the android into airplane mode to avoid disruption.
  
 There is an unwanted otg adapters and I may ask a shop to make a usb b to micro direct cable instead.


----------



## fb24601

luisandre said:


> Hello to all!
> 
> I have a Marantz PM8005 integrated amp that have besides the normal RCA inputs, a POWER AMP Direct in.
> The Conductor Virtuoso have DAC-OUT and PRE-OUT.
> ...


 
  
 Hi, I somehow discovered this thread and hope it explains:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/357361/line-out-dac-pre-amp-out-whats-the-difference
  
 If you use an amp that is similar to the burson timeline, then you probably need to use pre out as the volume control and the gain settings won't work with the dac out. However I suppose marantz has full control at the amp and you can choose to use line out to avoid extra stages. You may try yourself for better sound, I think both can work.


----------



## luisandre

fb24601 said:


> Hi, I somehow discovered this thread and hope it explains:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/357361/line-out-dac-pre-amp-out-whats-the-difference
> 
> If you use an amp that is similar to the burson timeline, then you probably need to use pre out as the volume control and the gain settings won't work with the dac out. However I suppose marantz has full control at the amp and you can choose to use line out to avoid extra stages. You may try yourself for better sound, I think both can work.


 

 Thank you very much!
 Nice thread! Now I understand it.
  
 Cheers!!


----------



## parbaked

luisandre said:


> What is the best way to connect it to my Marantz?
> 
> DAC-OUT to RCA input ou PRE-OUT to POWER AMP Direct input?
> 
> ...


 
 You are correct!
  
 If you wish to use the Burson as a pre-amp, connect Pre-out to the Power amp Direct input. This will bypass the pre-amp in your Marantz.
  
 If you wish to use the Burson as DAC only, then connect the DAC OUT to an RCA input. This will bypass the pre-amp in the Burson.


----------



## luisandre

parbaked said:


> You are correct!
> 
> If you wish to use the Burson as a pre-amp, connect Pre-out to the Power amp Direct input. This will bypass the pre-amp in your Marantz.
> 
> If you wish to use the Burson as DAC only, then connect the DAC OUT to an RCA input. This will bypass the pre-amp in the Burson.


 

 Thank you so much!!
  
 I´m glad I was not far from getting it right 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## wmpelan

I own, since a month ago, a _Burson Conductor Virtuoso_ with  ESS9018 Dac.
 The sound quality is very good.
 But I have a problem, the _Virtuoso_ can’t play 24/192 files via coax and optical. USB is OK.  
  
 I use an _Oelenbach digitalcable_ and I have also tried 3 other coax cables of good quality. My music streamer is a _Simple Audio Roomplayer._
  
 I have tested (coax) an _ADL Esprit_ dac, a _Gato Dia250_ amp with built in dac and a _Naim DAC V1_ and all 3 performed very well with 24/192.
 The files are 2 albums from 2L (Norwegian)
  
 We have also tested my dealer’s demo _Virtuoso_ and the result was the same.
 Here we used _Auralic Aries_ as music streamer.
  
 I have also heard that the distributor in Finland has got the same problem.
  
 The Swedish and Finnish distributors has been in touch with Burson and as far as I understand Burson says that the problem is the music streamers.


 I would like to hear Bursons comment on this.


----------



## fb24601

Try some drugs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  

 Here comes the neotech nep3200


----------



## AlanU

fb24601 said:


> Try some drugs...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome!!
  
 Since day one I put in a Hifi Tuning fuse and have been playing with cords from my Audio Sensibility statement, Furutech Alpha3 and 314AG cords with cold plated AC connectors. 
  
 I still get the best SQ from adding my Grant Fidelity buffer with Black treasure tubes. By far more natural vocals with the tube buffer adding realism. Now when I remove it from the chain I feel I'm losing the lush qualities from the tubes.
  
 Playing with power cords I am finding the alpha3 and audio sensibility adds depth to the music. I've been using my furutech 314AG cord for a brief time....still gauging what I like the best.


----------



## thecrow

question re the virtuoso v soloist (with irdac)
  
 i have a pair of hd800s
  
 wondering how good/suitable the dacs in the virtuoso are?
  
 generally speaking i enjoy detail in my hd800s and don't necessarily need more warmth as such so i'm thinking the 9018 might be more suitable for me - or is the 8018 too brighe for the hd800s?
  
 i did have a listen to the soloist the other day and i did enjoy the clean controlled sound that was coming out
  
 **** currently I have an arcam irdac. for my hd800s should i be looking at.....
 1) the soloist and use that with my irdac or
 2) sell the irdac and look at the virtuoso (and if so which dac)
  
 **** there is a substantial price difference (50% extra). round numbers the soloist is about $900. if i buy the virtuoso and sell the irdac i'd be looking at a nett amount of an additional $550 (ie $950 less $400 i can get for selling the irdac).
  
 is the change of dacs (and new wiring.electricity source) worth the extra $550?
  
 your experienced views are much appreciated
 peter


----------



## AlanU

The 9018 will be hyper detailed. The burr brown version will likely have less ear fatigue over long listening periods.

the virtuoso remote is quite handy. I find the volume knob is high ratio so you must turn the knob a lot to adjust the volume.the remote control adjust the volume very fast.

Dac is very subjective to an individual ears. I will be buying another dac for my headphones rig because the built-in DAC is not analog sounding enough. the built-in dac is quite refined though. I'm very particular with note decay. However my tube buffer with the virtuoso makes a huge difference being more musical and realistic especially female vocals.

I will be hot rodding my current tube dac with upgrades but I will be buying another tube Dac in the near future for my virtuoso.

Your ears will tell you if the DAC inside the virtuoso is good enough for your preference. all depends how much you want to invest into the system.


----------



## thecrow

Personally I don't find the hd800s fatiguing. If you have the virtuoso with the 9018, have you found that the 9018 would still work with the hd800s or does it really push those highs towards that potential hard work/ fatigue area?

Can you shed any light on whether going from the soloist to the virtuoso for double the price is at all justified? 

Or would the irdac, considered good value for money and that has a touch of warmth and is easy listening yet punchy, using burr brown dac be more suited to the hd800s?

I too always thing it's a personal preference thing but interested to get points of view of the likelihood of my better options. 

The store I went to told me I'm better off with just the soloist but they didn't yet have the virtuoso in. 

Ta


----------



## fb24601

thecrow said:


> Personally I don't find the hd800s fatiguing. If you have the virtuoso with the 9018, have you found that the 9018 would still work with the hd800s or does it really push those highs towards that potential hard work/ fatigue area?
> 
> Can you shed any light on whether going from the soloist to the virtuoso for double the price is at all justified?
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, I don't have hd800 but I have tried virtuoso with k812 for some time and I don't find the high too harsh or whatever, actually it is good to me.
  
 However if you currently own a dac and you like how it sounds, and if you plan to upgrade the dac section in future, then using soloist would probably be a considerable option.
  
 Nevertheless virtuoso is very great for one off solution if you are not planning to go into multi thousands dac, especially if you don't plan to build a balanced system. I choose virtuoso because I think a good single end system is good enough for me and I do not need to worry about balanced in and balanced out standard and plugs and whatever which would escalate the equipment costs multiple times. I'd rather spend more time and money on music and buy copyright music.


----------



## thecrow

fb24601 said:


> Hi, I don't have hd800 but I have tried virtuoso with k812 for some time and I don't find the high too harsh or whatever, actually it is good to me.
> 
> However if you currently own a dac and you like how it sounds, and if you plan to upgrade the dac section in future, then using soloist would probably be a considerable option.
> 
> Nevertheless virtuoso is very great for one off solution if you are not planning to go into multi thousands dac, especially if you don't plan to build a balanced system. I choose virtuoso because I think a good single end system is good enough for me and I do not need to worry about balanced in and balanced out standard and plugs and whatever which would escalate the equipment costs multiple times. I'd rather spend more time and money on music and buy copyright music.




It's good to knot you don't find them too sharp. 

As I'm looking to treat myself to an amp that suits me that would not have me looking at other buys in the near future (my hd800s make me feel that way) I'm not looking to have a number of dacs or amps. 
Having said that separate dac and amp obviously opens up the whole mix and match later but I'm not married to that idea as I'm not planning to sell for a couple of years or so. 

So I'm it looking to upgrade a dac i the near future either. 

I do like my irdac but happy to upgrade to the virtuoso if the dac in there THAT good. So in essence the question is is the ess9018 a $1000 dac and that much better than the irdac dac which I picked up for $400 that I am happy with at that price. 

I guess to compare dacs one has to hear them both which I'm hoping to do. 

I believe Burson have a 30 day return policy but I'm not one to buy something when there is a 50-50 chance I'll return it (even for another option from them)

I'm even thinking that if I was to buy the virtuoso (v soloist) for the extra $, I might be more justifued in buying a second amp like a tube woo amp or a warmer amp and then gave two. 

However again I'm not looking at overspending at this moment but looking for solid value for me and my ears that will leave me without a "wandering ear" for a few years. 

That will, I think, allow me to spend less time on headfi researching amounts. So many open browser pages.....

I think ive rambled on enough but that's where I'm at soloist v virtuoso wise - is the virtuoso twice the offering as the soloist? Is the dac that good?

I need a coffee.....


----------



## AlanU

thecrow,
  
 I own a Burson DA160 dac. I also have the Virtuoso with the PCM1793. IMO the Virtuoso's built in dac is more refined than the DA160. 
  
 Here are my thoughts .... the Virtuoso is a great clean package with a refined volume knob, beefy amp, pre amp, built in DAC and has a convenient volume remote. The numeric blue digital display was a nice touch.  This package deal was what made me pull the trigger on the Virtuoso.
  
 I will without a doubt be buying a new dac to add to my Virtuoso. I prefer a more analog sound with a much longer note decay in piano music. The thing that is evil about this hobby is that we all know there is "better" in all categories of sound. 
  
 If you purchase a soloist you will not get the latest volume knob "improvements" from Burson. This may or may not be a deal breaker. You will be able to save $$$ and purchase any DAC you desire within your budget. I think the built in burson dac can easily be on par with most $1000-1500 dac's on the market. In that price range I have yet to hear an SS Dac capable of giving me to give me that meaty layered depth I want to hear.  
  
 I'm not interested in buying a new amp for while. However I'll gladly buy a tube dac. why?? You can really manipulate the sound (sq) alot by swapping dacs. Rolling tubes can change the sound signature while you retain the beefy power of the solid state Burson amplification.  You benefit both in having the organic sound of vinyl while you get it from a digital form via "tube dac" and drive pretty much any headphones you throw at it. I know this as fact because I've tested my tube dac (dac i use for my 2 channel system) with my Virtuoso and that provided me with serious engagement in the music compared to my DA160 used with virtuoso or the built in dac. However there are some folks that will find the burson built in dac more than enough for their ears. 
  
 Just to throw more confusion at you... you can buy the Soloist and use your current dac. Later on purchase a different set of headphones and this again will provide you a different sound signature that may suite your ears.
  
 Even though I prefer the sound of a AKG k812 I gladly purchased an HD800. Knowing that you can really manipulate the source you can cater the SQ by manipulating the source.


----------



## thecrow

alanu said:


> thecrow,
> 
> I own a Burson DA160 dac. I also have the Virtuoso with the PCM1793. IMO the Virtuoso's built in dac is more refined than the DA160.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your input too. 

After mulling this over for the last few days and reading your post I'm thinking the soloist would be my most suitable option. Nicely sits within my already extended budget and a great, like you say, beefy and clean amp. 

It appears the extra $1k to go to the virtuoso is a fair extra amount if that is chosen. However to keep this a good budget option then I think my irdac and the soloist sit well together at a good price with great value and the ability to upgrade the dac or change amp ideas in the future. 

Mind you your idea of tube dacs is a can of worms I had not even read about before so I'll try to resist doing my head in over those and keep it simple. 


Just one other question re the Burson amps.....

I notice you have the o2. I had a listen to my O2 after (5 hours later) demoing the soloist the other day. Am I correct in thinking the sound signature of the O2 (at least for the hd800s) is quite similar to the soloist. I'm thinkin the soloist has extended/firm bottom end and a fair chunk of more clarity and extra beef due to the extra wattage but in essence the O2 could well be a little brother. What's your views of that?

Cheers and many thanks
Peter


----------



## AlanU

Hi Peter,
  
 I can totally relate to you when it comes to spending your $$$ wisely in maximizing every cent!!
  
 When I took my objective amp off my desk I did question if it was a wise choice in spending the $$$ for a Virtuoso. I'll have to say the initial install of the Virtuoso it sounded horrible. I literally sounded like I plugged my headphones into a headphone jack of a cheap desktop logitech speaker set. I kept the amp on and walked away for an hour and when I came back it decided to cooperate.
  
 The 02 amp connected to my burson DA160 buffered with my Grant Fidelity tube buffer sounds as good or if not better than my Virtuoso with internal dac (tube buffer not connected). As you can see I'm not justifying my Virtuoso purchase. The Burson does generally have a tad more finesse with the sense of effortless flow of music.
  
 I used my Virtuoso dac and connected it to my 02 amp. I left the Burson in the "usb" setting so there is output to the burson headphone jack using the internal dac. During that time I can swap the headphones from 02 to Burson jack in a matter of seconds. This is a great a/b comparison with no tube buffer in the mix. The Burson truly provides a slightly smoother sound signature vs the 02. Is it worth the large $$$ difference??? I would say NO. The 02 does a very good job with a lot of power on tap!! Why go with Burson soloist? Virtuoso? I wanted a clean looking package.
  
 If you were blind folded I can easily label the 02 amp as "almost" a lateral move to the Soloist using the HD800. This is where human nature will point to the Burson for superiority because of cash outlay $$$ and cosmetic appeal.  
  
 The 02 amp is a no nonsense amp that is very neutral with incredible clarity. If you want to "think out of the box"  you can even consider selling your current dac and get the latest rage "schiit YGGY dac" and run that with the 02 amp. I bet the results will be excellent using a neutral amp like the 02. I'm all for "source" and having any decent amp to amplifying it. The 02 amp is not "decent" because its more like "excellent" with cheaper quality components (volume knob, inexpensive headphone female jack etc)
  
 Another approach as you've mentioned is buying a soloist solid state amp and a woo tube amp. I'm guessing you'll appreciate the organic sound of a tube amp with the high resolution HD800.
  
 I'd assume Dacs come and go for the quest for audio nirvana and the solid state amp will be the most subtle in SQ change.
  
 I'll have to say the most improvements you'll get at this moment in time is a DAC swap vs AMP swap....seriously!! 
  
 If someone built an 02 amp in a robust aluminum body and nicer quality volume knob and better quality jack and cleaner DC voltage wall wart (or simply use the 9v internal battery as you listen) and kept the secret of the internal "guts" the bling will sell to the majority!!


----------



## AlanU

Peter....your in Sydney? scrap the Schiit dac because I know it'll be ridiculously expensive. Even though Canada is a  neighbouring Country I'll have to pay around $3300 for a 2299 USD dac.


----------



## Chik0240

alanu said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> I can totally relate to you when it comes to spending your $$$ wisely in maximizing every cent!!
> 
> ...


 
 I do agree that the amp is more of a subtle change in SQ, but you can notice the extra refiness on the better amp for extended time. And for my own priority, if your desktop space is not too limited to cope with separate dac and amp, I will always prefer a separate option. Not that the internal dac for virtuoso is bad, but dac chips evolve much quicker than the SS amp itself (think how the 24/196 PCM 179x to the ESS9018 dacs are different in just a few years, while a vintage great amp is still great for most phones). It also saves you money if you feels your wallet is too full and time for some new toys


----------



## AlanU

chik0240,
  
 In my scenario use a tube buffer so actually the 02 amp is rolled off marginally with the Black treasure tubes. The SQ from my Burson DA160 is detailed enough for the Hd800's with organic sound.
  
 I find the 9018 a lateral move to the 9018. The draw to the ESS sabre dac chip is the low cost. Apparently the older Burr Brown's chipsets were much more expensive. Even though the PCM1793 is'nt the latest technology it provides me no ear fatigue for a solid state dac. Infact I find it strange that the ESS9018 is more expensive because I would imagine cost factor wise the chip should be less in component level.  Marketing  is what reflects on the price of the sabre chipset dac option IMO.
  
 Human ears have not evolved lately   but there seems to be a technical drive to make a solid state transistor to be more analog. A perfect example is the Schiit Yggy dac labelled as "digital vinyl".
  
 I've just sent in my tube dac for some new hot rod parts using a Mullard EL32 buffer tube to increase air and intimacy to my jazz/female vocals/piano/ strings genre. I'm extremely fortunate to live in Vancouver, BC where my tube dac is manufactured. In fact just yesterday I auditioned a super rectifier unit to replace the single tiny 6x5GT (rectifier on my tube dac) and my jaw dropped. 
  
 I can change the sound signature drastically by swapping the big power tubes (used as buffer).  As far as the rectifier is concerned the super rectifier uses 300b tubes!!!! absolutely insane jump in SQ.  Just recently a local person did an a/b comparison of a $15,000 dac to a tube dac (24 bit - the one I own) Lets just say this customer is selling it and just bought a tube dac to replace it. I'm totally into manipulating source for a true "digital vinyl" by using a tube dac.
  
 This is where I will go to great lengths in manipulating my source and simply have a nice clean refined neutral power amplifier that is solid state. I just haven't found an 9018 that is as musical as a burr brown chipset. 32 bit isn't of any interest to me because I cannot hear any differences on my 2 channel or headphones. 
  
 I think Peter should buy a new different dac before dumping his objective amp. I'd even suggest buying the cheap "liquid carbon" amp everyone is excited about. Speculation that this amp is stellar for the price point. On the other hand Burson is a logical choice for him because it's manufactured in his backyard.


----------



## thecrow

I thought my irdac was a good little dac when comparing to dacs around $600 or a little more. 

I was looking at the cheap cavalli amp - the thread actually put the irdac on my map before I ended up with it. 

I'd rather hear the amp or at least read some detailed reviews before buying an amp at that price as I've done that before. 

Here the Burson is cheaper than the cavalli. 

I also hear it when you say that dacs evolve quicker than amps - that's something I'll keep in mind in future purchase choices.


----------



## AlanU

thecrow said:


> I thought my irdac was a good little dac when comparing to dacs around $600 or a little more.
> 
> I was looking at the cheap cavalli amp - the thread actually put the irdac on my map before I ended up with it.
> 
> ...


 
 Dac's seem to be evolving but there are some that will not touch a sabre ESS9018 or get excited about DSD dac's.  If I do not buy a 32 bit DSD dac for years I highly doubt I'd yearn for one. 
  
 I'll have to ask what music genre you prefer? You may just find the burr brown be more easy on the ears.
  
 Since Burson is readily available to you in your backyard you can always look into an amp that may colourize your source with pleasant distortion by using a tube amp. Since you already own an objective amp  you already have a very good neutral amplifier.
  
  
 Soloist will be wise choice if you like the clean fast smooth burson sound. However don't expect a major increase in SQ since your objective amplifier is already very neutral. The Burson will be a tad more refined but not a major improvement.
  
 Dac's can come and go just as easily as buying a new amplifier.  Enjoy this hobby


----------



## thecrow

alanu said:


> I'll have to ask what music genre you prefer? You may just find the burr brown be more easy on the ears.


 
  
 i dont have too specific tastes. if i was to throw out some frequent items - steely dan, thomas dolby, peter gabriel, female vocals  have had a recent resurgence since buying the hd800s, some rock blues, some r& b, soul
  


alanu said:


> Since Burson is readily available to you in your backyard you can always look into an amp that may colourize your source with pleasant distortion by using a tube amp. Since you already own an objective amp  you already have a very good neutral amplifier.
> 
> Soloist will be wise choice if you like the clean fast smooth burson sound. However don't expect a major increase in SQ since your objective amplifier is already very neutral. The Burson will be a tad more refined but not a major improvement.


 
  
 i'm glad that my idea that the o2 and soloist were related in sound might not be such a stretch. as i mentioned i did feel that the there is more meat and clarity on the soloist so i would consider that an upgrade in that. but since they are not that different then there is no rush. perhaps a well priced second hand one might be even better. nonetheless..........
  
 i will litsen to a few tube amps like the woo wa 6 or 2 and valhalla to see if that floats my boat.
  
 i also listened to the hdvd800 and found there was some really really interesting texture on that. now that reminded me of my old "hifi system" of the 80's. that definitely got my interest. i'll have another listen to that with my slightly warmer irdac as i found the hdvd800 quite suitable but i'm questioning whether these may be one amp I might find fatiguing over longer sessions. but then i'm looking at more $$$ as i'll need the balanced cables so that would end up being about $1500 or so (AUD) for the hdva600 and cables. that could well be worth it but then that is a different $ outlay that may have to wait
  
 also listened to the auralic taurus mk 2 - very very smooth detailed rounded and $2500 for what would have to be an extremely versatile amap
  
 sorry for railroading this thread but thanks for the opinions on the virtuoso and soloist


----------



## AlanU

Peter...this is what makes this hobby so much fun!!
  
 Audition your amps and choose what fancies your ears. Just remember that you can always buy a different set of headphones and add more colour to the "sound". 
  
 I've tested my 02 amp with my industrial looking Space tech labs tube dac and this without a doubt makes the cheap objective amp extremely engaging and musical. How does it compare to my Virtuoso with built in dac?  I'll take my cheap objective amp any day with that combo over my Burson!!!  
  
 However using that dac with my Burson is something I can live with for a very very long time for incredible intimate female vocals and black backround silence. The lonnnnnnggggg note decay and analog meaty bliss is something I have yet to hear in a solid state dac. The beauty with the Burson combo is that I will have no restrictions in the type of headphones.
  
 As you can see there's many ways to select personal happiness


----------



## devilboy

Hello to all!
 I started a few years ago with a Soloist and Audeze LCD 2 rev 2.  While I liked what I heard, I couldn't get over the extreme discomfort of the Audeze so I sold everything off.  Just recently, I got back into the headphone world with the purchase of the Conductor Virtuoso and a pair of HD 800s.  I burned in the Virtuoso for 2 weeks of continuous play in the big system via its coax input.  I must say, the DAC is coming along nicely.........very nicely.  I opted for the Burr-Brown 1793 chip as I don't care for oversampling at all.  It sounds too "fake" for my tastes.  The most natural and organic sounding digital I've heard was always from NOS DACs.  The DAC is even competing with my beloved Metrum Octave.  We'll see.....
  
 Burson is the only headphone amplification I've ever had so all my findings are with that company.   I rented a pair of LCD-Xs and HiFi Man 560 (I think).  With the inclusion of the HD 800s, I had three 'phones in house at once.  I ultimately decided to keep the Senn 800s.  Regarding the Audeze, it did some things amazingly well.  Midrange  was absolutely wonderful IMO.  That said, I decided against them for two reasons.  They (along with the 2.2), have bass that is too exaggerated which takes away from the other frequencies.  Also, (again like the 2.2), they were EXTREMELY uncomfortable.  Wearing the LCD-X felt like I had two cinder blocks on my head with a C-clamp squeezing them together.  I know this isn't an issue for me, it was a deal breaker.
  
 I understand why some people say the HD 800s may sound bright at times.  It doesn't have the "meat" on the bones the Audeze does.  Bass could be a bit more pronounced too.  I discovered the Anaxilus mod (I think I spelled that correctly).  After performing that mod yesterday, I will say that it definitely subdued the harshness I was getting and they bass got better too as now the highs weren't drawing attention to themselves. 
  
 I mentioned all this because I was considering replacing the Burson with a valve amp to "tame" the highs but now, along with the DAC sounding as good as it does, I'm glad I'm keeping it.  The Conductor is such a versatile piece.  I'm thinking of using its preamp section into the big system, not just the DAC output.  So far all listening, with headphones or in the main system, has been with the Burson's DAC.  After logging more hours that way, I'll put the Metrum back in and compare. 
  
 The Burson's build quality is some of the best I've seen and is quite reassuring when unboxing.  I have only one quibble.  When I use the volume up/down buttons on the remote control FOR MY CABLE BOX, the volume will increase or decrease on the Burson WHATEVER THE LAST COMMAND OF THE BURSON'S REMOTE WAS.  Meaning, if the last command I gave the Burson remote was volume down, then when I press EITHER volume up or down on my cable box remote, the Burson's volume will go down.  If the last command on the Burson was volume up, then when using the cable box up/down volume, the Burson will go up.  The latter is kinda scary since I can turn the Burson volume up to 99 without knowing it. 
  
 Has anyone else experienced this?  Other than that, I love the Virtuoso.  It's a solid, well built, and great sounding piece.


----------



## fb24601

haha, I don't use any remote control


----------



## Burson Audio

Hello everyone, 
  
We've updated the Burson Download Page so everyone can find the manuals and which driver to use quite easily. Conductor Virtuosos have the CM6631 USB receiver and should use the Windows driver marked CM6631. If you have an older Conductor or Conductor SL, you'll need the Tenor receiver driver, TE8802. The CM6631 offer full ASIO support for  Windows and OSX, so we recommend using ASIO. Those units with the Tenor USB module can upgrade their Conductor or Conductor SLs for $65US. 
  
No OSX driver is needed for the Conductor, Conductor SL or Conductor Virtuoso. However recent Yosemite updates cause problems with the Conductor and Conductor SL’s Tenor TE8802 USB driver, so download the driver marked TE8802-(OSX) for Yosemite or upgrade to the CM6631A USB module and eliminates the problem entirely.


----------



## thecrow

alanu said:


> Peter...this is what makes this hobby so much fun!!
> 
> Audition your amps and choose what fancies your ears. Just remember that you can always buy a different set of headphones and add more colour to the "sound".
> 
> ...


 

 Hi again Alan and Chik
  
 I went with the soloist to pair up with my irdac.
  
 i'm loving it.
  
 both were picked up from same guy (second hand) - total $1000 AUD. very happy with my restraint in only blowing my initial budget by so much and the value i've picked up for the "lazy" $1000
  
 so essentially 1/2 price a new conductor or hdvd800 (without the balanced cables which are a must with that)
  
 the soloist sounds better here than it did at the local dealer - perhaps because this one has been burnt in (and then some) over the last 2 years, or perhaps because i want it to be better than the store. only problem with the fact it's running well due to having been burnt in is it's got that bloody audible pop when changing volume - i'll get the wd40 out tomorrow to fix that.
  
 just finished listening to prince's diamonds and pearls album - haven't listened to the whole album for years
  
 so much more meaty than the o2. similar but more meat.


----------



## MIKELAP

thecrow said:


> alanu said:
> 
> 
> > Peter...this is what makes this hobby so much fun!!
> ...


 

 Had that same problem with my 4wpc Conductor used the WD40 it worked for a little while not long but poping always came back and what happened eventually loosening the little screws to shoot the stuff inside the attenuator, well i broke of one end of a resistor because there's no room to work so  i changed the attenuator to a 50k Khozmo 48 step attenuator and it still pops and i have a few Woo amps with stepped attenuator that pop also, i was told that it was probably  because of my setup that there's that poping because when they (PCX)tested the Khozmo after install they said it was not poping what in my setup would cause that i have no idea .Some have reported having no problems with that So if you loosen that attenuator be very careful one slip and your screwed


----------



## thecrow

mikelap said:


> Had that same problem with my 4wpc Conductor used the WD40 it worked for a little while not long but poping always came back and what happened eventually loosening the little screws to shoot the stuff inside the attenuator, well i broke of one end of a resistor because there's no room to work so  i changed the attenuator to a 50k Khozmo 48 step attenuator and it still pops and i have a few Woo amps with stepped attenuator that pop also, i was told that it was probably  because of my setup that there's that poping because when they (PCX)tested the Khozmo after install they said it was not poping what in my setup would cause that i have no idea .Some have reported having no problems with that So if you loosen that attenuator be very careful one slip and your screwed


 

 thanks for your warning
  
 in that case..........
  
 it is usual that the popping is only on one side (right)?
  
 is it anything i should be worried about - eg damage to the headphone?
  
 i can work around it - eg  on the soloist using the gain switch and a little volume adjustment on my source (pc).
  
 or even pause the music, adjust volume and music back on (no pops when no music)
  
 i also did read somewhere here that burson does sell the volume knobs/attenuator if needed
  
 cheers
 peter


----------



## MIKELAP

thecrow said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Had that same problem with my 4wpc Conductor used the WD40 it worked for a little while not long but poping always came back and what happened eventually loosening the little screws to shoot the stuff inside the attenuator, well i broke of one end of a resistor because there's no room to work so  i changed the attenuator to a 50k Khozmo MK2 48 step attenuator and it still pops and i have a few Woo amps with stepped attenuator that pop also, i was told that it was probably  because of my setup that there's that poping because when they (PCX)tested the Khozmo after install they said it was not poping what in my setup would cause that i have no idea .Some have reported having no problems with that So if you loosen that attenuator be very careful one slip and your screwed
> ...


 

 I dont remember on what side, gotta say that the poping was alot louder than my other amps but with Khozmo noise is half as loud , .Me im always ajusting volume so if i wouldnt touch it i wouldnt here it lol .To be honest after i broke the resistor buying another Burson replacement attenuator was out of the question it probably would of ended up doing the same thing law of average .


----------



## thecrow

Is the sudden Pop of any danger to the headphones (say due to its nature)?


----------



## thecrow

Or to ones ears?


----------



## MIKELAP

thecrow said:


> Or to ones ears?


 

 i find it was just annoying but in the long run i really dont know, of course if it becomes to loud better to change it .By the way it seems GOLDPOINT is another good attenuator brand


----------



## Mortalcoil

Be careful with the WD-40.  I have heard that it can do more harm than good in this case by attracting more gunk around the connections.
  
 You may want to look into something like this http://www.partsconnexion.com/CAIG-78939.html or http://www.partsconnexion.com/cardas-70241img.html  Either product should do the trick or at least help.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





mortalcoil said:


> Be careful with the WD-40.  I have heard that it can do more harm than good in this case by attracting more gunk around the connections.
> 
> You may want to look into something like this http://www.partsconnexion.com/CAIG-78939.html or http://www.partsconnexion.com/cardas-70241img.html  Either product should do the trick or at least help.


 
 May i point out that it is Burson that recommends WD 40


----------



## AlanU

mikelap said:


> May i point out that it is Burson that recommends WD 40


 
 I'd probably use the "contact cleaner wash" from parts connexion since most contact cleaners do not leave residue. You can buy that similar stuff at most electronics supply shops locally.  What is appealing about that "wash" is it claims no plastic damage....that's my major concern.


----------



## AlanU

thecrow said:


> Hi again Alan and Chik
> 
> I went with the soloist to pair up with my irdac.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Burson is more refined with a tad more meat than the 02 amp.  I'm more accustomed to much more full body via "source" not relying entirely on the headphones.
  
 This is where my Space Tech Labs Tube dac provides me a totally different sound to the build in dac of the Burson Virtuoso. Truthfully I'd be just as happy going your route with the soloist to save some $$$. I would also be certain that many folks listening (blind fold) to an 02 amp with my tube dac would be in shock how incredible it sounds.  The finesse of tube dac with 02 amp simply is an incredible combo!! This way I can still roll tubes to create the sound I am exactly after without the "acceptance" of "fixed sound" of 2 components (dac/amp).
  
 My tube buffer with Burson virtuoso dac does provide me more musical meat so that is holding me off until I buy another dac down the road. I have yet to hear beautiful musical colouration from any solid state dac that will satisfy me. The only way I would be satisfied is to have a solid state dac with tube amp. I never thought I'd care for tubes but in my case for a longer tail in note decay and full bodied vocals solid state at a reasonable affordable price is extremely difficult to find.. ..all comes down to preference. If I want more of a solid state sound I'll remove my rectifier tube and put in a full wave rectifier diode configuration to power up the buffer tube grid with a solid state rectifier (non tube). 
  
 Now that I own a Burson amp I'll gladly manipulate and colour my source to exactly what I want. At this  moment I have no desire to even buy another amp. I'll very likely buy a "regen" usb amber unit and more tubes and enjoy.  Many ways to have fun in this hobby


----------



## parbaked

mikelap said:


> May i point out that it is Burson that recommends WD 40


 
 I wouldn't call that a recommendation over a product like DeOxit.
 They're only saying that there's no risk of voltage spark.


----------



## thecrow

alanu said:


> I'd probably use the "contact cleaner wash" from parts connexion since most contact cleaners do not leave residue. You can buy that similar stuff at most electronics supply shops locally.  What is appealing about that "wash" is it claims no plastic damage....that's my major concern.



Thanks everyone for your help on this one. 

Let me get this right to help reduce the popping I need to clean some contacts in the middle of the attenuators (as per these instructions http://www.bursonaudio.com/burson-ha-160-stepped-attenuator-maintenance/). The popping sound is because these need to be cleaned?

In terms of what's available locally do these options look good? Any prefs on these?

The wd40 -the cleaner 
http://www.wd40.com.au/wd-40_specialist_products#cleaner

http://www.jaycar.com.au/Service-Aids/Chemical-Aids/Aerosols/Deoxit-Gold-Contact-Cleaner-%26-Rejuvenator---Aerosol/p/NS1434

I don't think the deoxit comes with a straw

I also assume a fast drying is best. Do all these cleaners evaporate?

Your experienced ideas are much appreciated
Peter


----------



## parbaked

thecrow said:


> Let me get this right to help reduce the popping I need to clean some contacts in the middle of the attenuators (as per these instructions http://www.bursonaudio.com/burson-ha-160-stepped-attenuator-maintenance/). The popping sound is because these need to be cleaned?
> 
> In terms of what's available locally do these options look good? Any prefs on these?
> 
> ...


 
 My thoughts:
 1. You should try cleaning the contacts to stop the popping.
 2. Use Caig De-Oxit. It is better than WD40 for this application.
 3. DeOxit is designed to evaporate quickly and leave no residue that can attract more dirt. WD40 is designed to leave a lubricating residue.
 4. DeOxit does come with a straw.
 5.  You might not need to take the attenuator out to clean it. Before taking it out you can try to clean it while it is still installed.
 - Open top of amp.
 - Spray DeOxit contact cleaner into the attenuator. I few quick blasts releases a lot of cleaner.
 - Move volume control knob back and forth through the full range. Do this a few times as you are working the cleaner in between the contacts.
 - Spray the attenuator with the DeOxit Gold and turn the knob through the entire range a few more times. The Gold will help stop dirt from accumulating. 
 - Give it an hour or so to dry. You can keep wiggling the knob as it dries. 
 6. If this doesn't work, you can remove the attenuator and clean more thoroughly.


----------



## thecrow

parbaked said:


> My thoughts:
> 1. You should try cleaning the contacts to stop the popping.
> 2. Use Caig De-Oxit. It is better than WD40 for this application.
> 3. DeOxit is designed to evaporate quickly and leave no residue that can attract more dirt. WD40 is designed to leave a lubricating residue.
> ...


 
  
 the wd40 i was thinking of was "the specialist contact cleaner" which may be similar. But i assume you have had success with the deoxit gold so i take that on board
  
 whats the likelihood of it working without removing the attenuator. would the pop only be coming from the centre or could it be elsewhere? i ask as i'm not sure how this all works or even why the pop exists - if you can shed some light on that that would be of interest too
  
 thanks


----------



## parbaked

thecrow said:


> the wd40 i was thinking of was "the specialist contact cleaner" which may be similar.
> 
> whats the likelihood of it working without removing the attenuator.


 
 That WD40 might be OK but use Caig DeOxit if you can get it.
 It is MUCH better and more proven than any other brand.
  
 There are two DeOxit products, D5 and Gold. 
 D5 is the cleanser.
 Gold is the protector.
 You use the D5 to clean, then apply the Gold to preserve and protect.
 This should last longer than cleaning alone.
  
 These products are designed to penetrate. You shouldn't have to remove the attenuator and pry the sides apart to clean.
 Just apply liberally and turn the knob to work it in.
  
 Since you don't know what you are doing or how things work you will likely break something if you try to remove your attenuator and pry it open.


----------



## thecrow

parbaked said:


> Since you don't know what you are doing or how things work you will likely break something if you try to remove your attenuator and pry it open.


 
 lol
  
 i was just going to follow instructions
  
  
 thanks for your info - and method
  
 i'll suss it out
 much appreciated


----------



## RubyTiger

Something I've been told. Do not use Pro Gold in the insides of components, cables and places where you can not reach. One headphone cable manufacturer told me he would void the warranty of anyone using it on his cables connectors. That's connectors with internal parts like the one's used for HD800's, Audeze or any other types that plug in.  I would suspect rca's as well. I like Pro Gold myself and never had a problem but it does leave a film that could hold dirt and gum things up.
  
 Just saying.


----------



## MIKELAP

Taking whatever cleaner you want saw this   on Burson site   http://www.bursonaudio.com/burson-ha-160-stepped-attenuator-maintenance/


----------



## thecrow

I'll take these ideas and contact Burson about them. 

I may even just work around it and leave it as it is

Thanks


----------



## Richartist

Hi PetarCV,
  
 I experienced the same back ground noise when using my new Virtuoso ESS, not really a hiss but more of a white noise always on the background. It was not there with my HD650, but always there when the Virtuoso was used as a pre-amp. I could here it clearly and I mean sitting 4+ meters away from the speaker. It was a disappointment against my previous Conductor. As much as I enjoyed the remote and the (to me) more refined sound, it annoyed me to hear that noise through the quiter passages of songs. I experimented with several power-filters and cables but without any result. Then I remembered the gain switch on the back of my Bryston power-amp and I switched it from 2V to 1V and the noise stopped! So I think it must be a senstivity thing.
  
 Regards,
 Richard


----------



## AlanU

richartist said:


> Hi PetarCV,
> 
> I experienced the same back ground noise when using my new Virtuoso ESS, not really a hiss but more of a white noise always on the background. It was not there with my HD650, but always there when the Virtuoso was used as a pre-amp. I could here it clearly and I mean sitting 4+ meters away from the speaker. It was a disappointment against my previous Conductor. As much as I enjoyed the remote and the (to me) more refined sound, it annoyed me to hear that noise through the quiter passages of songs. I experimented with several power-filters and cables but without any result. Then I remembered the gain switch on the back of my Bryston power-amp and I switched it from 2V to 1V and the noise stopped! So I think it must be a senstivity thing.
> 
> ...


 
 I think your describing the impedance of the Headphones that creates this "noise". 
  
 I use HP that do not have this issue your describing so I'm happy with the more refined DAC in the Virtuoso.  What I find is that my tube buffer (burson dac > tube buffer > Burson Analog "I" input) provides extremely black backgrounds compared to using the Virtuoso direct "U" setting. "Most" Digititis is eliminated using my tube buffer but there's always room for improvements.


----------



## thecrow

Hi everyone. 

All done. Used the wd40 as that's what I had at home. 

You think I could wait 24 hrs to use something else? No way. 

Burson audio pointed me to that link using the method/wd40 as above and that I just needed to pull the knob. 

Pop gone. For now. I'm sure it will come back later as these do. But easy to do every few months or so. 

Many thanks. 
Peter


----------



## parbaked

thecrow said:


> Burson audio pointed me to that link using the method/wd40 as above and that I just needed to pull the knob.
> 
> Pop gone. For now. I'm sure it will come back later as these do. But easy to do every few months or so.
> 
> ...


 
 Cool!
 Please confirm what you did to solve the problem.
 Did you remove the knob AND pry it open exactly as in the Burson link.
 Thanks!


----------



## thecrow

Yeah. I followed the instructions on that link. Was no major dramas at all. 

I had to email Burson to find out how to remove the knob. Which was just slide it off. Who would have thought????


----------



## bnana

there's something I'd like to ask.
  
 is the back ground noise from virtuoso amp section?
 does noise exist in line out?
 thanks


----------



## Cran

New burson conductor virtuoso user here.
  
 Configuration:
 iMac Late 2012
 Intel Core i7  3.1 GHz
 Memory:    16 GB
 Fusion Drive
 AKG K812
 Audirvana plus 2.1.1
  
 I heard very very subtle hiss sound in shop, but the sound was so good that I decided to accept it.  But I heard nothing at home.  No background noise bothered me at all, at least to my ear.  Why the difference?  I don't know.
  
 But Audirvana plus 2.1.1 with this setup bothered me a lot.  The sound is just too bright and bass not there, no matter how do I tweet the setting.  Caused me a lot of fatigue.
  
 I was at the moment of nearly gave up and switched back to iTunes alone.
  
 UNTIL I DISABLED ITUNES INTEGRATED MODE.
  
 Everything back on track.  Mid and bass is back.  Sound is more rounded, analog and sweet.
  
 This is the photo


----------



## Richartist

I found the noise to be only in the pre-amp section, and not present with my HD650. But definitely there with almost all amplifiers I tried (Linear Acoustic, Job 225, Bryston). I got it under controll when switching senstivity from 2V to 1V on the Bryston. The other amps unfortunately don't have that possibility.
  
 I will mail Burson about this though, as this means I have to stick to Bryston (...someting I can live with . But it means you have to be carefull in matching the amp.


----------



## Chik0240

richartist said:


> I found the noise to be only in the pre-amp section, and not present with my HD650. But definitely there with almost all amplifiers I tried (Linear Acoustic, Job 225, Bryston). I got it under controll when switching senstivity from 2V to 1V on the Bryston. The other amps unfortunately don't have that possibility.
> 
> I will mail Burson about this though, as this means I have to stick to Bryston (...someting I can live with . But it means you have to be carefull in matching the amp.


 
 I think that's because the HD650 is not ultra sensitive, thus not making the noise audible, but pairing it with a sensitive amp will amplify it and make it audible..
 seemed that the virtuoso is actually better than the old offering in case of not so sensitive phones with the more percise volume control, but the higher noise floor make it less than ideal to operate with more sensitive phones which the old conductor or the soloist (SL) can do


----------



## Richartist

Could be, I don't know if the headphone and pre-out are affected by the same noise. That should depent from which circuit the noise originates I guess. But for me it makes the Virtuoso hard to use as a pre-amplifier. The Job and LA amps have a 2V input (and so does the Bryston in 2V mode) which is kind of standard but due to the noise they are unusable with the Virtuoso. I partnered the Conductor with the Job without problems but combined with the Virtuoso it generates a lot of noise. It is like a bad tape (early 80's) or soft white noise but can be heard throughout my living room and even through softer passages in music. I can not believe this to be normal for a pre-amp, so I will contact Burson.


----------



## t69p

Hello, received my Virtuoso last week. No problems... no noise with all my headphones : Audeze LCD2 and Beyerdynamic T50p.


----------



## imac2much

Hey all!
 I currently have the Soloist SL and I don't hear any hiss with my HE-400i's.  Do you think I would hear any noticeable hiss with these headphones using the Virtuoso?
  
 I'm considering the Virtuoso as a better all-in-one package, especially with the 1793 DAC as I heard it sounds a bit more musical with better soundstage (something my 400i sorely lacks).  One thing I love about the Soloist SL is that unlike other class A amps, it hardly gets hot at all.  My Asgard 2 ran much too hot for my taste so I returned it.  Since the Virtuoso is more powerful (4W instead of 2W), does it get any hotter than the Soloist SL?


----------



## fb24601

imac2much said:


> Hey all!
> I currently have the Soloist SL and I don't hear any hiss with my HE-400i's.  Do you think I would hear any noticeable hiss with these headphones using the Virtuoso?
> 
> I'm considering the Virtuoso as a better all-in-one package, especially with the 1793 DAC as I heard it sounds a bit more musical with better soundstage (something my 400i sorely lacks).  One thing I love about the Soloist SL is that unlike other class A amps, it hardly gets hot at all.  My Asgard 2 ran much too hot for my taste so I returned it.  Since the Virtuoso is more powerful (4W instead of 2W), does it get any hotter than the Soloist SL?


 
 He400i has a lower impedance at 35 Ohm, I think you need to bring your headphone to a demo unit to check it personally...
  
 From my personal experience with virtuoso vs conductor SL, I think the latter can get hotter, may be the heat dissipation is better for the larger unit.


----------



## thecrow

I've got the soloist and I have no issue at all with the heat. In fact any heat


----------



## MIKELAP

With the 4 wpc Conductor it does get warm after awhile


----------



## Frank I

warm to the touch but not overly hot or anything/


----------



## imac2much

Thanks guys.  How is the heat compared to the Oppo HA-1?  I am trying to decide between these two integrated DAC+Amps.  I can get a used 1793 Virtuoso for a bit less than a used Oppo HA-1 right now.  
  
1793 Conductor Virtuoso
+ cheaper
+ single ended means I won't need to buy balanced cables for my headphones
+ more musical perhaps?  
+ cheaper (in this case)
- not nearly as versatile
 
Oppo HA-1
+ that sexy LCD
+ more versatility in inputs and connections
+ more power via balanced
- less power via single ended, so I'd need to buy balanced cables
- gets hotter?
 
Granted I have no need for the DSD in Oppo HA-1's DAC, as I never listen to those types of music files.  I also don't know if I'd use many of the connections on the HA-1 as I don't want to invest in balanced cables (and for some headphones I'm considering, like the T1, it would be a pain to get them fit for balanced use since the cables aren't detachable).  I'm looking for a headphone with good comfort, clarity, imaging, some warmth on the low end and hopefully better soundstage than my 400i's... right now I am considering the Alpha Dogs, PM-2, 560 and Beyer T1.  I know none of these headphones check everything on the list.  I'm thinking most of these would pair well with either the Virtuoso or the HA-1 with the possible exception of the T1.
  
 Has anyone had any experience with both of these units?  What would you recommend?


----------



## MIKELAP

imac2much said:


> Thanks guys.  How is the heat compared to the Oppo HA-1?  I am trying to decide between these two integrated DAC+Amps.  I can get a used 1793 Virtuoso for a bit less than a used Oppo HA-1 right now.
> 
> 1793 Conductor Virtuoso
> + cheaper
> ...


 

 You dont need balanced cables  for your headphones thats one thing i discovered when i was researching my balanced WA22 .but sellers will tell you different.


----------



## fb24601

ha1 seems do not have separate transformers for dac and amp respectively as in burson, you may check its inside pictures.


----------



## imac2much

Forgive my ignorance, but is that a good thing or bad thing?


----------



## AlanU

imac2much said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but is that a good thing or bad thing?


 
 In theory individual transformers for each component is an isolation between amp and dac section. So essentially it's "better" to NOT share power supplies. So it's theoretically "better" to have 2 transformers so there is 1 for each component dac/amp (I do not know the layout internally of the virtuoso)
  
 I like my virtuoso but remember there is a tonne of products out there. You can buy a nice amplifier and external dac as well.
  
 I will eventually buy a different DAC instead of using the Burson Virtuoso 1793 chipset dac. However there are people loving the DAC section of the Virtuoso. I prefer more musical analog sound so I prefer  a tube dac. Personal preference is what will be the deciding factor. When I use my Tube dac with my virtuoso it is worlds apart in musical engagement compared to the virtuoso solid state dac. I'll have to say the Burson virtuoso dac section is more refined than my Burson DA160 dac. 
  
 I want to compare a Woo WA5 ($2750)  with my virtuoso with my tube dac and super rectifier (combo tube dac/burson virtuoso amp aprox $5000)  (borrowed from my 2 channel system) . The woo amp still uses a small "baby" 5u4g (I'm being facetious because its not really that small)  rectifier setup. My tube dac uses a separate Super rectifier unit using dual massive vintage rectifiers provide huge dynamics. 
  
 Interesting thing about cabling is that many high end 2 channel systems used unbalanced RCA's and some argue that they are more musical than balanced.
  
 To my ears the Virtuoso amp/dac combo is very good and refined. However IMO it will not be close to the musical engagement of a woo amp or a tube dac with "good solid state amp".


----------



## fb24601

imac2much said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but is that a good thing or bad things


 
 Power quality is influential to audio performance for equipment and to my experience is quite audible in comparison for a subjective settings 
  
 For example when I swapped the stock power cable with either aftermarket audioquest ngr-4 or neotech nep-3200 power cable, I can hear a refined sound for the unit. I am now using the aq ngr-4 for conductor SL and the neotech nep-3200 for the virtuoso.
  
 Separate power supply for dac and amp for all in one unit can probably lower the interference between each units in power distribution.


----------



## fb24601

If you somehow need to use an iem with the Virtuoso, there is a solution to cancel the hiss using an impedance adapter. The picture shows a 100 Ohm impedance adapter and can work very well to cancel the hiss, and then the volume has to be the same as a full size phone.


----------



## t69p

t69p said:


> Hello, received my Virtuoso last week. No problems... no noise with all my headphones : Audeze LCD2 and Beyerdynamic T50p.


 
  
 Hi, received my new toy today : LCD-3f and also no hiss or noise with them...


----------



## thecrow

imac2much said:


> Thanks guys.  How is the heat compared to the Oppo HA-1?  I am trying to decide between these two integrated DAC+Amps.  I can get a used 1793 Virtuoso for a bit less than a used Oppo HA-1 right now.
> 
> [COLOR=222222]1793 Conductor Virtuoso[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=222222]+ cheaper[/COLOR]
> ...


If it's not too late there was a meet here in sydney. General feedback from those there was the he560 sounded GREAT with my soloist and the audio gd dac1 (sabre dac). So if you're thinking he560s then the conductor with the sabre dac looks good. 

I would think that would be strong for the oppos and alpha dogs - ie HPs with a warm/dark nature. 

(Unfortunately the soloist and sabre dac wasn't quite right for my hd800s - the v200 was)


----------



## t69p

frank i said:


> warm to the touch but not overly hot or anything/


 
  
 Received my LCD-3f yesterday and put them on Conductor Virtuoso, after 24hours continous playing my Virtuoso is only warm... no heating problem with mine


----------



## shadye

Hey guys, I'm looking to purchase a Burson Conductor or a Soloist for my LCD-2F. What is the best option from the following: (sound and money wise)
  
 Burson Soloist - $650 + $400 to $600 for a dac
 Burson Conductor PCM1793 - $1000
 Burson Conductor Virtuoso PCM1793 - $1300
  
 Thank you, appreciate any advice.


----------



## fb24601

shadye said:


> Hey guys, I'm looking to purchase a Burson Conductor or a Soloist for my LCD-2F. What is the best option from the following: (sound and money wise)
> 
> Burson Soloist - $650 + $400 to $600 for a dac
> Burson Conductor PCM1793 - $1000
> ...




For your dac price range I think virtuoso is the better choice. Since lcd2 shouldn't have imepedance/sensitivity related hiss, you do not need to go back to older conductor model.


----------



## thecrow

shadye said:


> Hey guys, I'm looking to purchase a Burson Conductor or a Soloist for my LCD-2F. What is the best option from the following: (sound and money wise)
> 
> Burson Soloist - $650 + $400 to $600 for a dac
> Burson Conductor PCM1793 - $1000
> ...


I haven't heard any version of the conductor. 

I do have the soloist and the arcam irdac. The irdac is a couple/few years old. There are some really strong reviews on the irdac and I really like this combo for my hd800s. This combo is often mentioned as a good combo for audeze HPs but I can't remember if it's the lcd 2 or 3 or both. 

This is certainly worth considering at your price point if you don't go the way if the conductor. 

Some reviews on the irdac are detailed and some aren't. Here is a snippet from a review I read a while ago that I emailed to a friend of mine. I can't remember which site it came from but I thought it was the best description that I agreed with also. 

"As to provide a tonal descriptive, and in continuation of the ‘natural’
statement above, the irDAC is very pleasing to listen to and can comfortably
accommodate extended periods of listening without fatigue. The presentation
of the bass is comfortable with an apparent sub-bass roll off and luscious
mildly warming feel that extends through and up into the low midrange. As we
enter into the midrange, the irDAC has an exciting wonderfully delicate
multilayered approach that never lets down even the most complex
instrumentation. In particular both male and female vocals carry precious
weight and retain their body and life even during complex vocal acrobatics
that would normally expose weaknesses in the overall sonic presentation. As
we enter into the treble the irDAC exhibits a luxurious feel without any
nasty grittiness. The ultra high frequencies appear to, again, be slightly
rolled off, which allows the top end to maintain a soothing composure with
rich contrasts and delicate timing. Don’t believe for a second that these
characteristics blunt the top midrange, because everything feels remarkably
airy and well kept."

I would have simply said it is a punchy dac with a touch of warmth and good detail and balance.


----------



## shadye

Thank you for a great response. I was browsing around and that seems like soloist and irdac is a popular setup. A lot people prefer the soloist + a dac over the conductor for some reason. I'd like to know the differences between the conductor and the virtuoso though. If someone listened to both, is the $300 premium over the conductor worth it for the virtuoso? I would ideally prefer to go for an all in one unit, if not the Burson soloist + arcam idac doesn't seem like bad option.


----------



## thecrow

There should be info early in this thread from Burson audio explaining some differences between new and previous conductor.


----------



## shadye

I figured to just go for the virtuoso. For the upgraded usb module, 100 step attenuator and a bad ass remote, not sure about the sound differences but hopefully that somewhat justifies the $300 premium over the original conductor.


----------



## AlanU

shadye said:


> I figured to just go for the virtuoso. For the upgraded usb module, 100 step attenuator and a bad ass remote, not sure about the sound differences but hopefully that somewhat justifies the $300 premium over the original conductor.


 
  
 I find the remote more convenient in changing the volume. The volume knob seems to be speed dependent in changing the volume quickly. 
  
 Cosmetically speaking I'm pleased with the Virtuoso. I'm definitely going to have to buy a different external dac to make my headphone rig more engaging....no hurry though. 
  
 What you must determine is if this amp/dac will meet your needs in happy listening.


----------



## shadye

Wouldn't you have been better off getting a soloist + a DAC since the conductor is essentially a soloist + one of those 1793 or 9018 dacs? I head good things about both those dacs, though do you feel like they don't do the amp justice? I'm not too concerned about the sound, this is a huge upgrade for me so I'm confident Burson will meet my needs, that is until upgradeitis hits again of course


----------



## Chik0240

shadye said:


> I figured to just go for the virtuoso. For the upgraded usb module, 100 step attenuator and a bad ass remote, not sure about the sound differences but hopefully that somewhat justifies the $300 premium over the original conductor.




From what I've read the virtuoso is well worth it as long as you are not planning to use it with sensitive IEMs and active speakers (as preamp) where the higher noise floor could be a problem


----------



## shadye

I recently ordered a pair of JH audio 5s and I have a pair of audio engine a5+ powered speakers, how bad is noise floor? I was really hoping to use the pre-amp..


----------



## Chik0240

shadye said:


> I recently ordered a pair of JH audio 5s and I have a pair of audio engine a5+ powered speakers, how bad is noise floor? I was really hoping to use the pre-amp..




Since I don't have the virtuoso I can't say definitely how severe it is, judging at early comments it seemed at least the JH5 will be a problem, maybe you should try on local audio shops before purchasing. It's very frustrating to receive a new unit with excellent sound quality and found that with your system it continually produce hiss on quite passages.


----------



## fb24601

shadye said:


> I recently ordered a pair of JH audio 5s and I have a pair of audio engine a5+ powered speakers, how bad is noise floor? I was really hoping to use the pre-amp..


 
 If you use a BA drivers IEM with virtuoso, you need to add a 150 Ohm impedance cable to eliminate the hiss. I have tried it with noble k10u.


----------



## AlanU

shadye said:


> Wouldn't you have been better off getting a soloist + a DAC since the conductor is essentially a soloist + one of those 1793 or 9018 dacs? I head good things about both those dacs, though do you feel like they don't do the amp justice? I'm not too concerned about the sound, this is a huge upgrade for me so I'm confident Burson will meet my needs, that is until upgradeitis hits again of course


 
  
 The 1793 dac is quite refined and easier to listen too compared to the sabre chip 9018 IMO. I would say it's a nice amp/dac combo and enjoyable. I'm not as extreme in  chasing audio nirvana in the headphone world compared to 2 channel.
  
 Even the owner of a headphone shop (local Brick and Mortar) told me that there is subtle differences when it comes to amplification. I believe his comments since I can enjoy my cheap objective 02 amp equally as much when using my dac that I use for my 2 channel system. 
  
 You get into trouble when you start to do A/B comparisons between gear.


----------



## epyon415

Speakers question for everyone...what speakers are you using?
  
 I'd like to get a pair so I can listen to stuff off my computer (games, video recordings) instead of constantly using my headphones. If I'm not mistaken since the conductor has RCA out, I would need powered speakers? I have considered the Audioengine series, but would like to know what others are using.
  
 Speakers don't need to be flagship as I pref music from headphones and budget wise at/under $500.
  
 Thanks.


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## AlanU

epyon415 said:


> Speakers question for everyone...what speakers are you using?
> 
> I'd like to get a pair so I can listen to stuff off my computer (games, video recordings) instead of constantly using my headphones. If I'm not mistaken since the conductor has RCA out, I would need powered speakers? I have considered the Audioengine series, but would like to know what others are using.
> 
> ...


 
  the A5+ do work well for what they are. Emotiva has their Airmotiv line of powered speakers. 
  
 I've actually ran my home PC system with an audioengine cheap dac, emotiva mini x100 amp and Kef R100 non powered stand mounts. After using that for a while I felt it was a waste of $1300 bucks to run the kef r100's. I eventually removed the Emotiva amp and R100 speakers and purchased some Audioengine A2+ and 8 inch Energy sub and have been pleased with the non critical duties.
  
 Determine how critical you want to be with this speaker setup.....


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## montanari

I used a pair of adam f5 and then a5x For a couple of year
Plugged to the pre out


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## earthpeople

At my computer, I have Audioengine A2s hooked up to the preamp out of my Conductor. Works fine for general purposes when I can't or don't feel like wearing headphones. More critical listening goes to headphones or my speaker setup, which seems like what you're planning to do too. 
  
 I like the A2s because they look good and are small enough to fit under my displays but of course you've got tons of options out there. Either way, you are right about powered speakers -- it would be the easiest way to hook up speakers to your Burson.


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## thecrow

After listening to a number of the usual suspects, eg Yamaha, krk, genelec....., I went with the jbls lsr 2325.

But NOTE I was not looking for gaming but for music and I do enjoy nice mids. The update on those jbls are now the lsr305p. 

Great reviews everywhere on these

I also prefer it when it's two active monitors rather than a slave and master set up.


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## epyon415

thanks all. Will review the suggestions.


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## parbaked

epyon415 said:


> thanks all. Will review the suggestions.


 

 These are on Massdrop:
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/swan-m200-mkiii-speaker-system?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Active%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20A%20Product%20Announcement%202015-07-26&utm_content=B&mode=guest_open&referer=2AQXWA
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/yamaha-hs7-studio-monitor?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Active%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20A%20Product%20Announcement%202015-07-26&utm_content=B&mode=guest_open&referer=2AQXWA


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## Rainstar

Just upgraded from a HA-160DS to Burson Conductor Virtuoso ESS9018
  
 I can already tell a difference. Using my same Sennheiser HD800
  
 It has only been an hour into music but I can go ahead and describe a few things.
  
 I am not sure if this amp needs to be burned in but we will see any difference after 400 hours.
  
 My old Burson cranked up maxed volume is around Volume number 80 on the Virtuoso. The volume can go up higher now.
  
 Words that come to mind are Airy, Warm, Analytical, Crisp, Bright. I have yet to have a boring song. 
  
 The unit is Noticeably Heavier, Going to Tap Plastics soon to make my own polycarbonate clear top for it, perhaps buy a 3 pin white LED strip while I am at it.


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## AlanU

rainstar said:


> Just upgraded from a HA-160DS to Burson Conductor Virtuoso ESS9018
> 
> I can already tell a difference. Using my same Sennheiser HD800
> 
> ...


 
 I found the virtuoso to be rough around the edges upon initial listening. I'm fine with it now but in the beginning it wasn't impressive straight out of the box.


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## vnmslsrbms

I heard the virtuoso paired with a LCD-3 at a noisy audio show environment and it was pretty awesome.  I listened to 3-4 songs, and it was just beautiful.  The source was a AK Jr though.  But since the DAC is using the Burson I guess it doesn't matter.  The clear top might have had something to do with it too.


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## fb24601

Tyll Hertsens suggested conductor virtuoso should be among the top league, and would probably release some more comment soon...cheers
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/show-newport-2015-burson-audio-soloist-and-conductor-virtuoso-headphone-amps#rHMxSOj03yPFkeJY.97


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## Textfeud

Regarding the hiss comments, could it be the Sabre DAC? I hear no hiss with the LCD-XC with the Wolfson DAC. Sounds very good too.


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## RubyTiger

textfeud said:


> Regarding the hiss comments, could it be the Sabre DAC? I hear no hiss with the LCD-XC with the Wolfson DAC. Sounds very good too.


 

 Is the hiss with both the preamp and headphones? On the older thread someone wrote about a hiss problem when using the preamp out. But not when using headphones.  I don't know if they ever found a solution for it though.


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## fb24601

Hiss is not likely dac related as older conductor model with 9018 did not have such issue.


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## Textfeud

rubytiger said:


> Is the hiss with both the preamp and headphones? On the older thread someone wrote about a hiss problem when using the preamp out. But not when using headphones.  I don't know if they ever found a solution for it though.


 
 I hear no hiss with my active speakers through the pre out and I hear no hiss with my LCD-XC.


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## RubyTiger

textfeud said:


> I hear no hiss with my active speakers through the pre out and I hear no hiss with my LCD-XC.


 

 Good. I never had any problems with mine either. See below my signature.


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## iDesign

I purchased the Conductor Virtuoso (ESS9018S) in September and it was a noticeable improvement over my old HA-160D. I looked over the entire market of affordable 3-in-1 integrated amplifiers and the Conductor Virtuoso seemed to offer the best value and solid performance across all three functions of USB DAC, headphone amplifier, and pre-amplifer. It is also nice to see the Conductor Virtuoso in InnerFidelity's Big Sound 2015 shootout which confirms the amazing value it represents-- it is among the least expensive amplifiers in their test yet includes a pre-amplifer and DAC. I added an in-depth review of the Conductor Virtuoso on Head-Fi: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/burson-audio-conductor-virtuoso-dac1-ess9018-dac-and-headphone-preamp/reviews/14244


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## talon66

Hello to all,
    I just purchased a Conductor SL 9018 and LOVE it!! I am listening with Oppo PM-3 cans and the sound is simply amazing. Coming from a Schiit stack (Asgard 2/Modi2), the improvement is well worth the $$. I picked the 9018 DAC chip because I prefer a clean, analytical sound and Burson's implementation of the SABRE chip is fantastic. 
  
 By the way, I have been a long-time lurker on this forum and wanted to say thanks to you all - I have learned a great deal from all your posts. You guys really know your stuff!
  
 Woody


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## oatp1b1

idesign said:


> I purchased the Conductor Virtuoso (ESS9018S) in September and I have been astounded by how much of an improvement it is over my old HA-160D. I looked over the entire market of affordable 3-in-1 integrated amplifiers and the Conductor Virtuoso seemed to offer the best value and solid performance across all three functions of USB DAC, headphone amplifier, and pre-amplifer. It is also nice to see the Conductor Virtuoso in InnerFidelity's Big Sound 2015 shootout which confirms the amazing value it represents-- it is among the least expensive amplifiers in their test yet includes a pre-amplifer and DAC. I added an in-depth review of the Conductor Virtuoso on Head-Fi:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/burson-audio-conductor-virtuoso-dac1-ess9018-dac-and-headphone-preamp/reviews/14244



Damn, I shouldn't have read your review. Now I want to upgrade my HA-160D..


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## iDesign

oatp1b1 said:


> Damn, I shouldn't have read your review. Now I want to upgrade my HA-160D..


 

 I decided to write the review in comparison to the HA-160D because I assume many owners of Burson's Classic HA-160 series are considering upgrading after five years. The most appreciable differences between the HA-160D and the Conductor Virtuoso are in the improved soundstage and mid-range detail that I refer to as a "dense center" (specifically with the Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650). Tyll Hertsens stated in his final review that the Conductor Virutoso was "less engaging" than the other significantly more expensive amplifiers evaluated in InnerFidelity's Big Sound 2015. I disagree and found the Conductor Virtuoso is ideal for long listening sessions which sometimes can be an issue with more engaging amplifiers like the HeadAmp GSX. However, I'm still undecided about the using the Conductor Viruoso with the Analixus modified HD-800 for long sessions and feel it is a better match to the HD-600 or HD-650 (I based my listening impressions on classical recordings that Stephan Flock engineered using the HD-650). I would like to test the Simaudio Neo MOON 230HAD against Conductor Virtuoso because it is likely the best head-to-head challenger. And I think that point was somewhat missed in the Big Sound 2015 review-- the Conductor Virtuoso is punching outside of its weight class and when you consider the Conductor Virtuoso in context, it is among the best choices of fully integrated 3-in-1 amplifiers in its price range. The option to add the Timekeeper Viruoso is also compelling because Burson designed the enclosures to match. The MOON Neo 230HAD is not the same size as the 330A or 400M and both of those amplifiers are more expensive. In that sense the Conductor Virtuoso very well may have set the benchmark because Burson did a good job conceiving an entire package that is both capable and affordable. 
  
 If you're considering upgrading from the HA-160D I'm confident you will immediately see the same value and leap forward that I wrote about in my review.


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## BeatsWork

Just posting as courtesy - don't own or know anything more 
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/index.html


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## BennyG

Hi guys
 Long time lurker first time poster and all that.
 I've just got the conductor virtuoso.
  
 Sounds incredible.
  
 The volume knob wobbles side to side like crazy, is this normal?
 I notice it as soon as I touch it. I can take the knob off easily, the movement is in the spindle. side to side by about 1mm each way, so when the knob is on, it just feels very loose and a bit crap.
  
 cheers
  
 edit: wow they are onto it already, getting some help from Burson support.
 just thought I would ask here also for some feedback


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## Rainstar

Mine is similar. Slight nudge left and right will move the nob I can also pull it out slightly and it goes back to normal by itself.


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## BennyG

cheers Rainstar.
 this is much worse I think, it feels like it is going to fall off when I touch it.
 thanks for the feedback


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## BennyG

got word back from Burson - apparently it is supposed to be like this to allow for the push in and out of the volume knob. So maybe I have made a big deal out of nothing?


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## Rainstar

I can rattle it strongly to the point where it seems like it would come off but it wont. it is preety "loose" and can give about 5-7degrees back and fourth or up and down.
  
 I believe they are correct in designing it because it Pauses when you press it in. this is a much smaller nob than the one from the previous conductor/160d/soloist


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## BennyG

yeah that sounds exactly like mine. I thought some ppl here would have mentioned it. (I didnt read the whole thread but I have read an awful lot of it.)
 It makes sense and I am ok with it now that they explained it is like that for a reason, it just seemed too loose to me.
 But I think I was making too much out of it
  
 But you know what it's like when you get something finally and expect it to be perfect... I have been wanting to get this now for over a year, and got if for a great price because the v2 came out, and was devastated to think that I had got a faulty one.
  
 All good though, now I can get back to enjoying the sound, which is fantastic. (Upgraded from a matrix mstage and dacmagic that I have had for about 5 years!)
  
 thanks again for the help


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## 18inch

beginner008 said:


> Anyone with the background noise problem may try to float the ground (disconnect the ground wire from the main) to see if the noise go away. If it did, you can get one of the HumX as a safer long term solution. I don't have a Conductor, but its work the magic on my Soloist.


 
  
 how do you disconnect ground wire from main?


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## mikemercer

Just busted-out my Virtuoso again - and havin' a terrific listening sesh!!
 I have the Questyle Gold Edition CAS192D DAC (ROGERS Ceramic boards - + THE WORKS - amazing kit) for a bit and wanted to put the Burson on it.
  
 LOST in Radiohead right now...


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## Beginner008

Hi 18inches,

If you don't know how to disconnect the ground, don't try it, you may get yourself kill if you do it wrong! Just buy a HumX and keep your fingers crossed! According to this forum, Conductor could have other noise then ground loop!


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## mikemercer

beginner008 said:


> Hi 18inches,
> 
> If you don't know how to disconnect the ground, don't try it, you may get yourself kill if you do it wrong! Just buy a HumX and keep your fingers crossed! According to this forum, Conductor could have other noise then ground loop!


 
 there was, I heard from a couple dealers - a bad batch of Virtuosos! They ALL had noise issues in that batch, sounded plausible 
 Mine is still quiet


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## 18inch

beginner008 said:


> Hi 18inches,
> 
> If you don't know how to disconnect the ground, don't try it, you may get yourself kill if you do it wrong! Just buy a HumX and keep your fingers crossed! According to this forum, Conductor could have other noise then ground loop!


 
 alrite thx
  


mikemercer said:


> there was, I heard from a couple dealers - a bad batch of Virtuosos! They ALL had noise issues in that batch, sounded plausible
> Mine is still quiet


 
  
 interesting info! was it the latest Virtuosos that only comes with the 9018 and 8w headphone amp or the older one (4w and pcm1793 or 9018) ?
 thx
  
 ive actually aquired a ifi ipurifier and iusb2.0, and it did help to tame the signal on the usb side, but still noisier than the matrix x-sabre, although less annoying than without the ifi products!
  
 I wonder if a burson dealer could fix this issue or its just how it is?


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## Hifi59

18inch said:


> alrite thx
> 
> 
> interesting info! was it the latest Virtuosos that only comes with the 9018 and 8w headphone amp or the older one (4w and pcm1793 or 9018) ?
> ...




I bought an early cv2+ 8w and it had this crackling noise (like a bad connection) that occurred on day one in the left channel.I contacted Burson about it. They were very concerned and offered to exchange it. It turned out that I didn't hear the noise again for 2 months and then suddenly it reappeared. This time around, it occurred much more often but in the right channel. I again contacted Burson. They had me pull out the dac board and insert the shorting pin that came with the unit as they suspected it may be the dac. It wasn't. The crackling occurred regardless of selected source or even no source at all. I could just turn on the amp and plug in any one of my headphones and wait between 5 minutes to 6 hours for it to occur. They graciously replaced the amp for me. It's been 3 days with the new unit with no issues at all.


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## TexasBuck

Just picked up a used Conductor-Virtuoso 4W Sabre version.  I'm only 2-3 hours in but so far I'm really impressed with the resolution and bass slam.  I didn't hear any background noise with my LCD-2. The increased detail and clarity was significant.   I could hear a bit of floor noise with my Beyerdynamic T5p.2 but when the music started, it was never noticeable.  The T5p.2 seems to be a fantastic pairing.  The sound was incredibly full bodied with a bass slam I've never heard from this pair of headphones.  I'm coming from the Yulong D18/A18 combo which is no slouch either.  I'm really looking forward to putting in more hours of listening.


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## Deni

Did anyone compare "V2+" with old "Conductor SL 9018" or "SL1793"?


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## Jacksaudio

Hi All,
  
 I just bought the new headphone Focal Utopia with the Burson Conductor V2+. I find the sound really accurate but, I find that it lacks a bit of warm (the bass is too recessed). I prefer the result with my Astell&Kern AK70. I'm a bit disappointed.
  
 I have to recieve the Fostex HP-A8 MKII soon, I could give you my feedback between the both DAC.


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## PetarCV

Burson Conductor pairs best with the Audeze, as the amp is more neutral/bright and the LCDs have a lush sound. My Grado PS1000 also lacks warmth on most recordings with the Virtuoso, so I can see how Utopia (based on what I read about it) would have the same issue.


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## Jacksaudio

Thank you for your answer PetarCV, it reassures me and that confirms what I think !


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## maximus69

I just bought a virtuoso with the cm6631 usb reciever. Can anyone confirm that it will work with an ipad/iphone using lightning usb 3 camera adapter?
My current dac uses that receiver and steams tidal thru my ipad pro. I dont use macs or laptops anymore, so dont have that option..also, would airplay thru apple tv be better quality than the usb 3 adapter? Should i be looking into a different device to stream tidal? What options would be better than ios streaming? Thanks in advance for any direction/help on this


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## maximus69

Also, can anyone tell me the length of the power cord?


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## PetarCV

Guys, does anyone know how to remove the volume knob? I am trying to replace the volume board with a new one, but I can't pull out the volume knob. Supposedly, it just needs to be pulled out forcibly as it is attached very firmly to the unit, but I still am unable to do it.


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## up late

Jacksaudio said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just bought the new headphone Focal Utopia with the Burson Conductor V2+. I find the sound really accurate but, I find that it lacks a bit of warm (the bass is too recessed). I prefer the result with my Astell&Kern AK70. I'm a bit disappointed.
> 
> I have to recieve the Fostex HP-A8 MKII soon, I could give you my feedback between the both DAC.


i auditioned the utopia with the v2+ yesterday and thought that it had ample bass, but i wouldn't call it warm either


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## bboris77

PetarCV said:


> Guys, does anyone know how to remove the volume knob? I am trying to replace the volume board with a new one, but I can't pull out the volume knob. Supposedly, it just needs to be pulled out forcibly as it is attached very firmly to the unit, but I still am unable to do it.


I would get in touch with Alex from Burson about this - he is super-fast to respond. From experience with guitars and pulling volume and tone knobs, the best way to remove these is to slide a very thin microfibre cloth underneath the knob (all around it), and then simply pull straight away from the body. If this is how this knob is attached, it should work.

Here is a link:


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## PetarCV

The knob on the Virtuoso is attached differently, so the cloth method wouldn't work I think. I talked with Dennis from Burson, but he basically said I just need to pull it out with force. To me this seems impossible unless there's some specific method or something else that needs to be done prior to it. Thanks for the suggestion, though!


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## holygrailseeker

thecrow said:


> Yeah. I followed the instructions on that link. Was no major dramas at all.
> 
> I had to email Burson to find out how to remove the knob. Which was just slide it off. Who would have thought????


i tried to slide knob off burson 160d with stepped attenuator but it wont budge...any suggestion...ty anthonu


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## holygrailseeker

thecrow said:


> lol
> 
> i was just going to follow instructions
> 
> ...


yeah i have same problem...no clue how to remove attenuator know...no set screw anywhere i can see...any clue will be appreciated


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## thecrow

holygrailseeker said:


> yeah i have same problem...no clue how to remove attenuator know...no set screw anywhere i can see...any clue will be appreciated


From memory you just had to have a strong grip and pull it off. No screws

BUT that’s from memory and only 96% positive i did it that way. Just email them to be sure maybe


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