# Moderator Inquiry - $$$ Xin-Who here has money or amps being held by Dr. Xin?



## immtbiker

Based upon previous threads, let's get an idea of how much member money Xin Feng is holding onto to, to see if serious action needs to be taken. 
 Before anyone gets defensive or protective, please read the thread below, then add your deficit to the list:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/tho...rrival-188413/

 1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...

 2 - How far past the promised date it's been...

 3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...


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## nc8000

I have a 1 year old order for a SuperMicro and a 3/4 year old order for a Reference but both are on credit card so he is not holding any money of mine. Also he is not holding amps as I have not been willing to send them in yet but I got a mail reply from him today saying that repairs (not upgrades) are being given high priority and will go out almost as soon as he gets them and that has been the way for at least the last 6 months even though he has not been replying to emails.


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## immtbiker

Please post your wait time and out of pocket


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## tk3

edit:refunded


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## Quaddy

_i have no great beef like others, as he isnt holding any cash of mine as cc was used, but want to add my data to this list so we can see whats what out in the open._

*1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...*
1 - $325.97 via CC

*2 - How far past the promised date it's been...*
2 - circa 10 months

*3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...*
3 - N/A


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## immtbiker

Thanks Quaddy.
 I am trying to get a ballpark figure on what is outstanding.

 Many people have posted in the other thread, but it would be a logistical nightmare to try to pick through all of the posts to see what is owed and and how long that it's been for each member.


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## tnmike1

Around $275 on CC for the Reference ordered in August. Hasn't charged the card thankfully, but haven't heard anything either just like the rest of us


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## Nuwidol

*1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...*
 1 - $205.97 USD via PayPal

*2 - How far past the promised date it's been...*
 2 - Amp ordered on August 7th 2007 (11 months & 1 week)

*3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...*
 3 - N/A


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## _j_

_1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date..._
*1 - $184.97 via PayPal
*
_2 - How far past the promised date it's been..._
*2 - Amp ordered on 3/13/2007 (16 months & 1 day-ish & some hours and minutes and stuff)*

_3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)..._
*3 - N/A*


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## ComfyCan

1)approx $300 last October via Paypal for a Reference. 

 2) I had previous experience with Xin and expected a delay of an indefinite duration. I didn't think it would take this long, but I can't say that it surprised me much.
 3) N/A. I do have an amp I want to send in for upgrades, but I will not do so until I have the Reference in-hand.


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## sbulack

nm


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## HeadphoneAddict

Why start this now, after he has re-surfaced?


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## musicmaker

I paid for a reference in Sep '07 with my credit card. No communication from him after my order. He has my credit card number. Hasn't charged. I sent him email to cancel and he didn't acknowledge that either. 

 What a character this Xin guy is !


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## itsborken

Just four people had 1K tied up in paypal. Figure how many don't post because they don't mind the delay, don't want to rock the boat and delay their order further, etc. and it probably adds up to some serious dosh.

 With the vast majority posting positive messages--great to have you back Xin, etc. it's a good thing to take stock of what's transpired over the past year. If Xin goes round heels again (and there's no evidence if he will deliver or disappear yet again) at least he's 'on notice'. Maybe that will help convince him to ship and if not, how would this make it worse?


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## ralfale

I think the best Xin could do, is do a public posting of what are the back orders and the current money he's holding on to. 

 Otherwise, that is really considered cheating to me to accept payment without delivery goods.


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## williamchc

1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...
 1 - $275.98 via CC
 No communication from him after my order. He has my credit card number. Hasn't charged yet.

 2 - How far past the promised date it's been...
 2 - around 9 months, since 8 Oct 2007

 3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...
 3 - N/A


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## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why start this now, after he has re-surfaced?_

 

Has he truly re-surfaced? We'll find out.


 This thread, and the same one for Singlepower, was started so that unsuspecting new customers don't fall into the same trap. People need to know what has transpired in the last 18 months, and then make a knowledgeable decision for themselves if they still want to make a purchase.

 Xin has had many opportunities to right his wrongs and has failed time and time again.

 His behavior has been unacceptable, even if his amps were spun of gold.


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## Gatsu

1) US$295.97 (AUS$338.52) paid via Paypal for a Xin Reference 

 2) Ordered 08/10/07

 No contact since original order confirmation, no ETA was given.


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## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gatsu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) US$295.97 (AUS$338.52) paid via Paypal for a Xin Reference_

 

That's more the reason for concern I figure. With the change in exchange rates since then - i.e. if you'd been able to use a Credit Card, which he doesn't charge till he ships, rather than using PayPal - you'd only be paying approx $AU300 now.

 BTW, I love Xin's products, too, but the length of the wait and the general lack of communication is a good reason for this thread IMHO (particularly for those who have already paid their money by PayPal before waiting).

 Oh, and none of mine are away with Xin ATM.


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's more the reason for concern I figure. With the change in exchange rates since then ..._

 

With his published one month turnaround and common consensus four month turnaround the exchange rates shouldn't have played into it sigificantly.


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## dealmaster00

*1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...*
1 - $200 via Paypal

*2 - How far past the promised date it's been...*
2 - 13 months

 EDIT: Wow I just emailed Xin asking for a refund and he responded 3 minutes later! He said he'd be refunding me right now...I'll let you know how it goes...

 EDIT 2: Yep I was just refunded. Great!


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## Elladan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dealmaster00* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...*
1 - $200 via Paypal

*2 - How far past the promised date it's been...*
2 - 13 months

 EDIT: Wow I just emailed Xin asking for a refund and he responded 3 minutes later! He said he'd be refunding me right now...I'll let you know how it goes...

 EDIT 2: Yep I was just refunded. Great!_

 

But if he'd communciated so well at any time in the last 13 months, perhaps a refund wouldn't be in question. Troubling. I'd like to get one of his amps myself, but don't know what to do: wait until a better level of service has been established or order now while he's around.


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## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elladan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if he'd communciated so well at any time in the last 13 months, perhaps a refund wouldn't be in question. Troubling. I'd like to get one of his amps myself, but don't know what to do: wait until a better level of service has been established or order now while he's around._

 

You could order now via credit card but you would still be at the rear end of a 14 month (perhaps +) order backlog so even if Xin's estimate for clearing that backlog holds you are looking at at least 3-4 months wait time.


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## montell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dealmaster00* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...*
1 - $200 via Paypal

*2 - How far past the promised date it's been...*
2 - 13 months

 EDIT: Wow I just emailed Xin asking for a refund and he responded 3 minutes later! He said he'd be refunding me right now...I'll let you know how it goes...

 EDIT 2: Yep I was just refunded. Great!_

 

 Well to be honest you shouldnt even be happy with this outcome. You should atleast asked for an interest rate over the $200. Thats the least what he could have done to compensate your economical and emotional loss. Youre $200 is probally worth $180 now.

 You basicly give him a interest free loan. Thats not how economics work.


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## dealmaster00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *montell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well to be honest you shouldnt even be happy with this outcome. You should atleast asked for an interest rate over the $200. Thats the least what he could have done to compensate your economical and emotional loss. Youre $200 is probally worth $180 now.

 You basicly give him a interest free loan. Thats not how economics work._

 

True but it's my own fault for paying with paypal. It's a better idea to pay with a credit card. Plus I thought I was out $200 so now I'm happy to have it back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also I probably wouldn't have made much interest on it anyway, I haven't opened a new CD or anything in that timeframe. Liquid/CD rates have really gone down the drain.


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## dealmaster00

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Elladan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if he'd communciated so well at any time in the last 13 months, perhaps a refund wouldn't be in question. Troubling. I'd like to get one of his amps myself, but don't know what to do: wait until a better level of service has been established or order now while he's around._

 

I decided that I wanted to wait for 12 months. A few weeks ago I decided I wanted a refund (I'm not into audio as much as I used to be). It's not like I wanted a refund the whole time these past 13 months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus like I said before, it's probably a better idea to use a credit card. That way you don't have to pay up front.


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## lisnalee

*1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date..*.
 1 - $325.97 via Credit Card

*2 - How far past the promised date it's been...*
 2 - Order placed 8th August 2007

*3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...*
 3 - N/A


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## dazzer1975

in the interests of getting it all detailed as quaddy has stated in his post in the first page, I have on order via credit card (so no cash of mine is in his hands) since feb or march this year:

 Reference Subtotal : 309.97
 Shipping : 25.99
 TOTAL : 335.96

 Supermacro iv Subtotal : 349.99
 Shipping : 25.99
 TOTAL : 375.98

 Supermicro iv Subtotal : 179.98
 Shipping : 25.99
 TOTAL : 205.97


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## Nuwidol

Gotta love that "all or nothing" way of thinking Daz.

 Fair play.


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## PhaedrusX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Based upon previous threads, let's get an idea of how much member money Xin Feng is holding onto to, to see if serious action needs to be taken..._

 

i think this and the Singlepower thread are a good idea, and probably long overdue.

 but...for this to have credibility, i see no reason why credit card orders should be included since no "out of pocket" money exchanges hands until the amp ships. according to the criteria you've set, cc orders simply don't qualify unless you're specifically concerned with long wait times, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

 i'm not a Xin apologist, but i think it's prudent to be objective and fair when dealing with a company's reputation.


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## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gotta love that "all or nothing" way of thinking Daz.

 Fair play._

 

lol ah well the reference was supposed to be the "reference lol, the supermicro obviously would work great as a portable amp and I just LOVE the number of switches and buttons on the supermacro iv lol

 however, after seeing it all laid out im seriously considering cancelling all of them and using that money for a home amp instead.

 I haven't fully decided yet as, well, I love new toys to play with and saying no to that supermicro and supermacro may be hard for me to do (quite aside from the fact that I may never receive em anyway lol)

 infact, ive just decided, I will cancel, that 500 quid is roughly in the ball park of half the cost of a beta 22, id prefer that over those 3 portables.


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## BushGuy

Quote:


 but...for this to have credibility, i see no reason why credit card orders should be included since no "out of pocket" money exchanges hands until the amp ships. according to the criteria you've set, cc orders simply don't qualify unless you're specifically concerned with long wait times, which doesn't seem to be the case here. 
 

You are absolutely correct PhaedrusX. But, if you refer back to the gazillion page (what I'll call the anti-Xin) thread.....you'll see a huge number of those posts are by the same individuals who seemingly have nothing better (or interest other threads/subjects) to do. Yet, what has been achieved? Absolutely nothing! It's the same stuff page, after page, after page. It is clear that the time this thread has been up........that it too is a waste. If there WERE substantive reason to start the thread - then there should have been several pages where individuals would have recounted their injuries. What the thread HAS ACCOMPLISHED is to prove that the gazillion page/post thread was all B.S.......an ill wind given supposed credibility, where none was deserved.


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## dazzer1975

What this, and the other thread does, is highlight and inform and educate people about their options when dealing with Xin.

 Without these two threads there would potentially be people making orders (there still very well could be who have never seen head-fi or these two threads) with xin who are completely oblivious to xin's business practices, nowhere on his site (the ordering pages and product specs etc) does it say that he may never reply to your communications and that the waiting list for amps is somewhere around the 14 month mark.

 For that reason alone, "ALL" orders should be recorded and thus go towards informing our fellow community members of what to expect when dealing with Xin.

 It is then up to them what they choose to do, but it would be irresponsible of head-fi, irresponsible of us as a community and also, actually, would denote a lack of community or public spirit in simply illuminating these issues for all to see so as they can be informed in their decision making.

 Given the above points I can't help but question the motives of those who question this thread.

 *mods* delete this and the other posts I made outside of the remit of this thread if you want, they detract from the purpose of this thread and as such are superfluous.


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## BushGuy

.........and I can't help but question those who might deny there is a serial Lobotomist running amok in the U.K.. Clearly there is evidence.


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## PhaedrusX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What this, and the other thread does, is highlight and inform and educate people about their options when dealing with Xin.

 Without these two threads there would potentially be people making orders (there still very well could be who have never seen head-fi or these two threads) with xin who are completely oblivious to xin's business practices, nowhere on his site (the ordering pages and product specs etc) does it say that he may never reply to your communications and that the waiting list for amps is somewhere around the 14 month mark.

 For that reason alone, "ALL" orders should be recorded and thus go towards informing our fellow community members of what to expect when dealing with Xin.

 It is then up to them what they choose to do, but it would be irresponsible of head-fi, irresponsible of us as a community and also, actually, would denote a lack of community or public spirit in simply illuminating these issues for all to see so as they can be informed in their decision making.

 Given the above points I can't help but question the motives of those who question this thread..._

 

this thread is not about you, or your indignation, or what information you think should or should not be included here. the thread title clearly states the purpose, and the opening post clearly sets the parameters.

 i suggest you read it.


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## nc8000

What surprises me is that given the supposed size of the problem very few people have actually posted in this thread


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## kokohore

1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...
*$275.98 USD via Paypal for Reference, on 28/Sept/2007*
 2 - How far past the promised date it's been...
*Around 9 months waiting, no promised date*
 3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...
*n/a*

 (The reason why I used paypal; because I couldn't predict the future exchange rate)


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## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BushGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.........and I can't help but question those who might deny there is a serial Lobotomist running amok in the U.K.. Clearly there is evidence._

 

That is quite a constructive post which adds a lot to the debate.

 Good job sir, I take it the lobotomist came to the u.k. after he finished his work in New York?


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## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PhaedrusX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this thread is not about you, or your indignation, or what information you think should or should not be included here. the thread title clearly states the purpose, and the opening post clearly sets the parameters.

 i suggest you read it._

 

I did read it, along with the sticky at the top of this forum and the other thread, and what I see is information which needs to be revealed to enable people to make a decision with regards their business with xin. This thread is a part of that.

 I suggest you read all of them and then use a little joined up thinking.

 Oh, and neither is this thread for you to criticise those who have had a problem with xin.

 The fact that there are 3 threads, one being a sticky at the top of this forum which is acting as essentially a warning, you still maintain there is nothing to be concerned about.

 Get a clue.


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## PhaedrusX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did read it, along with the sticky at the top of this forum and the other thread, and what I see is information which needs to be revealed to enable people to make a decision with regards their business with xin. This thread is a part of that.

 I suggest you read all of them and then use a little joined up thinking.

 Oh, and neither is this thread for you to criticise those who have had a problem with xin.

 The fact that there are 3 threads, one being a sticky at the top of this forum which is acting as essentially a warning, you still maintain there is nothing to be concerned about.

 Get a clue._

 

you still don't get it.

 i am one of "those" who has a problem with Xin. i don't particularly appreciate the long wait times or the lack of communication, nor do i "maintain there is nothing to be concerned about" (do you just make this stuff up as you go?).

 but that doesn't change the topic at hand, which is:

 -Moderator Inquiry - $$$ Xin-Who here has money or amps being held by Dr. Xin?

 "Based upon previous threads, let's get an idea of how much member money Xin Feng is holding onto to, to see if serious action needs to be taken."

 did you really read this? because no matter what you or i may think of Xin's business practices, the fact is that a cc order does not constitute "money out of pocket," which was my only point.

 so rail away against Xin's shortcomings, and question the hidden "motives" of other members all you want. i don't care. but it shouldn't cloud your judgement to the point where you cannot see the misrepresentation of simple facts.


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## jamato8

I have emailed with Xin and he never wanted any money to transfer to him until something shipped. That PayPal does this is something he never wanted but it was an option used for payment. That he has not sent out amps is not right but his motivation was not to receive money, which is why he prefered credit cards. I wouldn't want to anticipate an amp even using a credit card but at least I would be out money or thousands of dollars as in another thread but even for 5 dollars I can understand the frustration when you expect something.


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## itsborken

Please. If Xin was going to build the amps right away he could ask for a credit card/paypal. If he's just building a list of people who might want amps 14 months down the road, no credit card information is required (and it seems the majority of the info is already stale and needs to be resent if the person still wants one).

 There's a big difference between taking an order and building a customer list. Xin's done the latter.


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BushGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.........and I can't help but question those who might deny there is a serial Lobotomist running amok in the U.K.. Clearly there is evidence._

 


 You just can't help yourself and stay away from the ad hominum attacks, can you? Talk about zero value-add.


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## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PhaedrusX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you still don't get it.

 i am one of "those" who has a problem with Xin. i don't particularly appreciate the long wait times or the lack of communication, nor do i "maintain there is nothing to be concerned about" (do you just make this stuff up as you go?)._

 

The only conclusion to be gathered from your and the other guys post (whose name I cant remember at the moment) was that there is nothing to be concerned about, if you dont get that message yourself, head over the the other thread and see for yourself the message that xin apologists send out.



  Quote:


 -Moderator Inquiry - $$$ Xin-Who here has money or amps being held by Dr. Xin?

 "Based upon previous threads, let's get an idea of how much member money Xin Feng is holding onto to, to see if serious action needs to be taken."

 did you really read this? because no matter what you or i may think of Xin's business practices, the fact is that a cc order does not constitute "money out of pocket," which was my only point. 
 

And as I explained in my first post in this thread, following on from the other posts, I included my cc order.

 Furthermore, in my later posts in response to yours and the other guys, I explained the merit of doing so. Note this tangent has occurred as a result of your post to which a xin apologist jumped on, considering the nature of xin's business practices and the fact that the situation is deemed serious enough in its own right for this website to actually inform the community with a stickied post regarding xin, I felt it equally important to challenge the xin apologists, further taking the thread away on a tangent. A tangent I asked the mods to remove.

 Now, back to the original point, regardless of the wording of the thread title, and considering the point of this thread, it is also worthwhile to get a full picture of orders made, not just the actual money he has received from people, that way a fuller and more accurate picture can be garnered, while in no way impeding any necessary action as this website deems necessary in informing the community of the amount of money actually taken by xin.

 Like I said, those who have problems with this information getting out there can not be surprised when their motives are called into question.


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## sbulack

And back to the stated purpose of this thread:

*1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...*

 $305.97 sent by PayPal on 8/8/2007

*2 - How far past the promised date it's been...*

 It is now about 8 months past the statement posted by Xin in 2007 that he'd have the backlog of orders filled by Thanksgiving, 2007.


*3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...*

 None.


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## PhaedrusX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only conclusion to be gathered from your and the other guys post (whose name I cant remember at the moment) was that there is nothing to be concerned about, if you dont get that message yourself, head over the the other thread and see for yourself the message that xin apologists send out._

 


 oh, so you are just making this up as you go along.


  Quote:


 Furthermore, in my later posts in response to yours and the other guys, I explained the merit of doing so. Note this tangent has occurred as a result of your post to which a xin apologist jumped on, considering the nature of xin's business practices and the fact that the situation is deemed serious enough in its own right for this website to actually inform the community with a stickied post regarding xin, I felt it equally important to challenge the xin apologists, further taking the thread away on a tangent. A tangent I asked the mods to remove. 
 


 those are a lot of dots you are trying to connect. i question your line-drawing skills.


  Quote:


 Now, back to the original point, regardless of the wording of the thread title, and considering the point of this thread, it is also worthwhile to get a full picture of orders made, not just the actual money he has received from people, that way a fuller and more accurate picture can be garnered, while in no way impeding any necessary action as this website deems necessary in informing the community of the amount of money actually taken by xin. 
 


 yes, if you disregard the actual words in a thread (who needs those in a written forum), it certainly allows you to argue for the sake of arguing.


  Quote:


 Like I said, those who have problems with this information getting out there can not be surprised when their motives are called into question. 
 

ok, officer. i give up.


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BushGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...you'll see a huge number of those posts are by the same individuals who seemingly have nothing better (or interest other threads/subjects) to do._

 

Said looking in the mirror no doubt.

  Quote:


 Yet, what has been achieved? Absolutely nothing! 
 

You sure about that? How many people have been waived away from this trainwreck? If only one, something has been achieved. What will it take to convince you; a thread on who's been convinced not to buy an amp from Xin due to non-delivery? I know, just more empty hyperbole from you...

  Quote:


 If there WERE substantive reason to start the thread - then there should have been several pages where individuals would have recounted their injuries. 
 

Lowering the bar a little bit? A few months ago you wanted proof that one person is out money from Xin. I realize your twisted thinking is as long as Xin ships his amps before he's on his deathbed nobody's been injured. Yet there have been people who paid ahead by paypal, waiting 10-16 months for product to ship, and their troubles are conveniently swept aside as they don't meet your level of critical mass to be a problem? 

  Quote:


 What the thread HAS ACCOMPLISHED is to prove that the gazillion page/post thread was all B.S.......an ill wind given supposed credibility, where none was deserved. 
 

What this reply proves is your quotes/position fit your descriptive term.


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## chris_ah1

$400 or so on Credit card. 
 Waiting time - 15months.
 Upgrade - none.

 However, I was given a xin-reference free for testing as an apology at the 4month time.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris_ah1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$400 or so on Credit card. 
 Waiting time - 15months.
 Upgrade - none.

 However, I was given a xin-reference free for testing as an apology at the 4month time._

 


 You were given a Reference but I assume you are waiting for a different amp?


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## Quaddy

oh this is great, some people get a lender reference after only 4 months, when they havent even ordered a reference, this is perverse!


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris_ah1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$400 or so on Credit card. 
 Waiting time - 15months.
 Upgrade - none.

 However, I was given a xin-reference free for testing as an apology at the 4month time._

 

It was a nice gesture on his part at the time.


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## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long ago was this--you may be the first recipient since Xin has resurfaced. It's a nice gesture on his part._

 

11 months ago - do the math, at the 4mth wait time, hes been waiting 15, well before the resurface!


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_11 months ago - do the math, at the 4mth wait time, hes been waiting 15, well before the resurface!_

 

The 'at the 4 month time' was misinterpreted so I corrected my misread. On the other hand, 11 months ago the Reference wasn't available for ordering on the site, so that's what I thought was a nice gesture. He didn't cut in front of anybody; the 'orders' (and I use that loosely) were't even being taken at the time.


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## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 'at the 4 month time' was misinterpreted so I corrected my misread. On the other hand, 11 months ago the Reference wasn't available for ordering on the site, so that's what I thought was a nice gesture. He didn't cut in front of anybody; the 'orders' (and I use that loosely) were't even being taken at the time._

 

dude, 11 months ago orders for the reference were being taken, i ordered mine right off his page on 8th august 07 = 11mnths and 2 weeks approx. ago

 and i wasnt even the first one to order i dont think


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dude, 11 months ago orders for the reference were being taken, i ordered mine right off his page on 8th august 07 = 11mnths and 2 weeks approx. ago

 and i wasnt even the first one to order i dont think_

 

So did I; two days after it opened up. No surprise that Xin does whatever the heck he feels like doing at that moment. This wasn't the first time...


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## lisnalee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dude, 11 months ago orders for the reference were being taken, i ordered mine right off his page on 8th august 07 = 11mnths and 2 weeks approx. ago

 and i wasnt even the first one to order i dont think_

 

Your correct, i can remember people placing an order as early as april or may last year via pm with xin.


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## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lisnalee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your correct, i can remember people placing an order as early as april or may last year via pm with xin._

 

For the Reference? I pm'd people and was told to wait until the website was updated to take orders. Don't remember who--it was done before the big crash...Live and learn.


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## immtbiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BushGuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Yet, what has been achieved? Absolutely nothing! It's the same stuff page, after page, after page. It is clear that the time this thread has been up........that it too is a waste. If there WERE substantive reason to start the thread - then there should have been several pages where individuals would have recounted their injuries. What the thread HAS ACCOMPLISHED is to prove that the gazillion page/post thread was all B.S.......an ill wind given supposed credibility, where none was deserved._

 

As the OP, I sincerely believe that whether the money was paid via CC or Paypal, the deception is still the same.
 The manufacturer took orders and money from dozens of Head-Fiers and has vanished from the face of the earth on 3 separate occassions.
 He knowingly took money from people whom he knew weren't going to get any product for quite some time. He pops his head out of the sand from time to time to say "he's sorry and now he's going to complete the orders", only to vanish again.

 The sticky and the two threads are for possible future customers to read, so they don't make a blind purchase without the proper feedback, and for customers that are in the same boat, so they know that they are not alone.

*Bushguy*, I can't, in my wildest dreams imagine why you would thing these threads are total B.S and a waste of time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 What you prefer, a new batch of people, naive to the current situation, allowed to be caught in the same spider's web?


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## JarodL1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As the OP, I sincerely believe that whether the money was paid via CC or Paypal, the deception is still the same.
 The manufacturer took orders and money from dozens of Head-Fiers and has vanished from the face of the earth on 3 separate occassions.
 He knowingly took money from people whom he knew weren't going to get any product for quite some time. He pops his head out of the sand from time to time to say "he's sorry and now he's going to complete the orders", only to vanish again.

 The sticky and the two threads are for possible future customers to read, so they don't make a blind purchase without the proper feedback, and for customers that are in the same boat, so they know that they are not alone.

*Bushguy*, I can't, in my wildest dreams imagine why you would thing these threads are total B.S and a waste of time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What you prefer, a new batch of people, naive to the current situation, allowed to be caught in the same spider's web?_

 

Thank you for doing this. I am glad someone is finally bringing some attention to the scam Xin is running. 

 Funny it has been 2 weeks since Xin posted saying amps will begin shipping out and no one has gotten a shipment confirmation. The guy's name should be banned from this site.


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## immtbiker

"Sorry guys for the delay, I'm going to complete a lot of work in the next two weeks" and then proceeds to put his head back in the sand.


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## david21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JarodL1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny it has been 2 weeks since Xin posted saying amps will begin shipping out and no one has gotten a shipment confirmation. The guy's name should be banned from this site._

 

Delay the process as long as possible so that people will have a harder time filing a dispute? I know a few of my CC only allows me to to file a dispute 2-3 months after the transaction was billed, so I'm guessing it's the same for others. Hope you guys get your money back or the amp that was promised months and months ago.


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## tk3

Since I've got a Pico incoming, I mailed Xin for a refund some days ago.
 Today he refunded me with a quick note, so there is still some life there.
 Not all hope is lost for you guys who are still waiting, good luck!


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## cbw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *david21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Delay the process as long as possible so that people will have a harder time filing a dispute? I know a few of my CC only allows me to to file a dispute 2-3 months after the transaction was billed, so I'm guessing it's the same for others. Hope you guys get your money back or the amp that was promised months and months ago._

 

The only ones that would have trouble with disputes would be ppl that payed with Paypal, Xin doesn't charge the CC until the amp is shipped.


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## rhythmdevils

wasn't this thread supposed to be a list?


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## itsborken

guilty as charged your honor.


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## tommytomickey

yeah


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## jwalkergnv

1) I sent approx $300 in October 2007 via Paypal for a Reference.

 2) I had previous experience with Xin. In June 2007, I ordered a SuperMicro after he indicated amp would ship "immediately". When amp did not arrive after 2 months, I paid to upgrade to a Reference in August 2007. After 2 more months Xin (somewhat arbitrarily) cancelled my Reference order and refunded all my money via PayPal. I then reordered the Reference in October, fully expecting a delay of an indefinite duration.


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## willharris10

Are Xin's products THIS good that you'll wait forever to maybe receive one? Where does this guy live? Can't anyone go and see him, sit him down with a beer and get to the bottom of this?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *willharris10* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are Xin's products THIS good that you'll wait forever to maybe receive one? Where does this guy live? Can't anyone go and see him, sit him down with a beer and get to the bottom of this?_

 

There are many good amps on the market and it is often just a different flavor but not always. Sometimes it is the adventure and the trip rather than the arrival. No, this isn't what most people would agree with but we do hang on, hoping.


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## ChickenGod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *immtbiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Sorry guys for the delay, I'm going to complete a lot of work in the next two weeks" and then proceeds to put his head back in the sand.






_

 

I don't know. You guys seem like you're not cutting him enough slack. Yes I know a year is a long time... I was just one of the lucky ones who got his amp in 4 months. 

 He IS a one man business and I do understand that poor service isn't greatly appreciated but it seems like you guys are jumping the gun.

 Just my opinion.

 Oh and I'm sure many of you guys knew his reputation but proceeded anyways.


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## htotsuka

1 - Please list how much money you have sent to Xin which has long past it's promised date...
 1 - $675.94 via PayPal
 No communication from him after my order. I already paied money via PayPal. So, He has got a money.

 2 - How far past the promised date it's been...
 2 - around 1 months, since 25 Jun 2009

 3 - What amp/amps you have sent in for an upgrade which has long past it's promised date (this also counts as thousands of dollars that are outstanding)...
 3 - N/A


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## Quaddy

is june 2009 june 2008?


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## htotsuka

Sorry

 25 Feb. 2009


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## Quaddy

ahh ok, you ordered it last month, yours is a big order like mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you do realize you will wait approx 2 years though? 

 one month is equivalent to the first step on a thousand mile journey with xin


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## htotsuka

Yes, I understand that I will wait abou 1~2 years.

 I hope that supermacro will arrive to me as soon as possible.


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## tha_dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *htotsuka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I understand that I will wait abou 1~2 years.

 I hope that supermacro will arrive to me as soon as possible._

 

Almost 19 months here.


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## htotsuka

Is averaged waiting time is about 2years?


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## tha_dude

From what I gather, those that have posted about receiving their order have usually waited at least a year with some getting close to two years. Either way I'd expect to wait a while...


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## htotsuka

Thanks, tha dude

 I will wait two years, to get Supermacro from Dr.Xin.


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## htotsuka

I would like to know the order number, which has been shipped.

 Please report your states.


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