# FiiO E17 Alpen as DAC w/ iPad (retina mini) and iPhone (5S) Via Lightning Camera Connection Kit



## sanfordm

Will the FiiO E17 Alpen work as a portable DAC, not just a portable amp, with the Lightning camera connection kit for more recent iPads and iPhones?
  
 There's a patched together system described on these forms somewhere for using the E17 Alpen as a DAC with old dock-connector iPads and iPhones with a camera connection kit and a powered hub, battery powered to make it somewhat portable.  But here:
  
 http://fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=34&page=10
  
 FiiO reports the E7, not specifically the E17, will work with dock-connector iPads (presumably iPhones, too) via the dock-connector camera connection kit, without a USB hub in the middle.  Specifically because you can turn off of the USB charging function on the E7 so the iPad or iPhone doesn't detect too much power draw on the device and shut off the connection.
  
 Well, you can turn off USB charging on the E17 Alpen, too, so it follows the E17 will work as a DAC with Lightning connector iPads and iPhones via the Lightning USB camera connection kit (for Lightning connector devices it's a separate USB-only cable adapter without an included SD card reader; but no matter in this case).  Unless there's something radically different about the USB function of the Lightning connector.  I've read that some people have some issues with analog line audio off Lightning connector adapters, that it's different or digital-only or whatever as compared to old dock-connector line audio, but nowhere have I read that USB function is any different.
  
 So, what's the consensus?  Will it work?  Anyone have PROOF it will work?  It's not a deal-breaker.  I'm buying the E17 Alpen for my MacBook Pro, anyway, as for the Mac I'm tired of using an old and no longer smoothly supported -- you have to unplug/replug anytime the MB Pro sleeps -- Creative X-Fi USB DAC patched analog through an E12 Mont Blanc.  (Hey, don't laugh.  It works.  You know, sort of.)  That's the main point of the E17 Alpen, for the Mac, but I'd like to know if I should pick up a Lightning USB camera connection cable so I can use it with my iPad mini, too.  I really like the E12 Mont Blanc amp just fine but having a better DAC for the iPad when I want it would be nice.
  
 Thanks for any help.


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## dbdynsty25

I am not sure about the camera connection kit, but if you get the Apple Lightning to 30 pin adapter and then use one of the Fiio 30 pin line out cables...you can use it as a DAC.  That's what I use on my iPad Air (and did use on my Mini when I had it).  Works perfectly.
  
 20" straight LO
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DK08X6/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 Short L connection LO:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L-Shaped-Line-Cable-iPhone/dp/B005N6ZAT2/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389287674&sr=1-2&keywords=fiio+line+out


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## sanfordm

Isn't the signal to the E17 through the 30-pin adapters just analog line? Has it not been processed by the ipad DAC already. I thought to use as DAC it had to be digital audio over USB to the E17 which cuts the device's or computer's onboard DAC out of the loop. Do you go into the output menu (AirPlay menu) on the Air and select the E17 as the audio output?


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## dbdynsty25

sanfordm said:


> Isn't the signal to the E17 through the 30-pin adapters just analog line? Has it not been processed by the ipad DAC already. I thought to use as DAC it had to be digital audio over USB to the E17 which cuts the device's or computer's onboard DAC out of the loop. Do you go into the output menu (AirPlay menu) on the Air and select the E17 as the audio output?


 
  
 I have no idea...I just know it works.    Sorry about the lack of info as I've never used the camera kit.  
  
 When using the 30 pin adapter, I thought it was just using it as a digital line out.  The internal volume control on the iPad no longer works...so it's all done by the DAC...if that helps.  Maybe.


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## sanfordm

Line level is usually never affected by the onboard amp's volume control therefore that control is disabled. Because line level is line level. Increase the amplitude it's no longer line level. But I don't know. If you're getting 0s and 1s out of the Air that way the E17 maybe well be handling the DAC. You can test it if you want. Turn the volume way way down on some powered desktop or iPod speakers, patch the 3.5mm out (male) from the FiiO adapter to the 3.5mm AUX in (female) on the speakers. Play some music. If you get static, random noise or nothing it's outputting digital. If you're getting music out of the speakers what's on your line out is analog. Which means the E17 is doing the amplification but not the DAC.

I've always still got the E12 Mont Blanc analog amp I'm relatively happy using off my iPhone and iPad headphone jacks. Sounds good though a purist would sneer at me. Though I'll probably buy the Lightning USB camera adapter and try it with the E7 at some point. If it doesn't work I can probably find some other use for the adapter or maybe even return it to the store.


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## sanfordm

Okay, here's the thing.  Read this:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/628471/lighting-connector-to-e17-dac-compatability#post_9423909
  
 He's got a hub in the middle to fool the iPad into thinking the E17 doesn't draw too much power.  I don't think he needs one, powered or unpowered.  Just Apple's Lighting-to-USB adapter.  FiiO reports in the link in my original post that they got the E7 working with an iPad with a camera connection kit w/ USB port -- probably the old one for dock connector iPads that had an SD card slot AND a USB port, but same diff because the SD card slot is irrelevant for this purpose -- by turning off USB charging, which puts the E7 on battery power only, so it doesn't draw any power, so the iPad doesn't reject it as trying to draw too much power over USB.
  
 Well here's the thing, per FiiO's specs on the E17, you can turn the USB charging feature off on the E17 Aspen just like you can on the E7.  So it follows, turn off USB charging on the E17 Aspen via the menus, it runs on battery power alone, it draws no power, the iPad doesn't reject it as trying to draw to much power, select the E17 connected via Lightning-to-USB adapter as the output device in the output menu ("the AirPlay menu"), and the E17 becomes the iPad's external DAC, bypassing the onboard DAC.  I don't see how this won't work, without a hub in the middle.  It's the same deal as the hub-less E7 workaround.
  
 Don't know, and tend to doubt, this workaround will function with iPhones or iPod touches as they've never played nice with USB devices connected via a camera connection kit.  People have had varying success with keyboard and controllers and other USB devices connect to iPads via USB port on camera connection kits, but not so much with iPhones.  Even these iPhone game controllers that the new iPhones support, they're all Bluetooth as far as I know.


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## dbdynsty25

All of that USB stuff is craziness.  Using the LO and the Lightning adapter sounds great to me, so I'm not going to try to fix something that isn't broke.  Would definitely be interested in a tried and true solution instead of throwing hubs in the middle and all that stuff.  I wish the damn iPad just had a true line out once they went to the Lightning connector.  We can only hope.


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## sanfordm

I tend to agree with you.  I kind of just want to try it because the Apple USB cable adapter isn't very pricey, just to see if it can be done.  But, like you, if it works conveniently, sounds good to me, why do I want to mess with it?  I'm not even using line out for my FiiO E12 Mont Blanc.  Just headphone jack to line in on the E12, so I've got the iPhone and iPad amps muddying up the FiiO amp a bit -- though it's still a lot nicer than just the iPhone and iPad amps.  And of course for my Mac I've been using that Creative X-Fi patched into the Mont Blanc and been fairly happy with that, from a listening perspective.  I bought the E17 Aspen -- should be here tomorrow -- because the manufacturer has long since stopped X-Fi updates and if the MacBook Pro sleeps, or close the lid, the X-Fi goes into "zombie mode" -- it's recognized and selected as the audio output device when the Mac wakes, but it won't output any audio no matter what I do but unplug it and replug it.  I've done that several times a day over a year and figure I'll punt the hassle and in the bargain get a very nice, reasonably priced and high build quality DAC+amp dedicated to the MacBook, and then leave the Mont Blanc handy for exclusive use with the portables (iPhone and iPad).


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## sanfordm

Okay, as I promised I tested my iPad mini w/ Retina display connected via USB to the FiiO E17 via the Apple Lighting-to-USB adapter cable sold as a camera connection cable.  With USB charging feature of the E17 turned OFF.  It does not work.  iPad still displays the message it can't use the device because it draws too much power.  So there we go, pretty definitive, I think.  Not that I care so much though.  The E17 DAC makes the DAC in my mid-2012 MacBook Pro w/ 15-inch Retina display -- not, you know, exactly a budget laptop -- sound like it was hammered out of a tin can.  Too bad it doesn't work pure USB with iPads and iPhones.  But I can live with it, no problem.
  
 I hate Walmart as much as the next guy, but, hey, a thousand blessings upon Walmart's liberal return policy.  The adapter was only 29 bucks but it's a $29 adapter I have no use for if it doesn't work to connect my E17 to my iPad mini.


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## mattaudioesq

Damn. Can anyone with an E17, lightning CCK, and iPhone 5S try this and confirm it won't work? I don't know how it would be different than the iPad Mini, but one (i.e., me, a noob with limited knowledge of engineering) never knows with these things...
  
 From what I've read here on Head-fi, you will not get this error message w/ an E07K? I really want the E17's support of S/PDIF and 192 for my Macbook...but also don't want the hassle of having to use a USB hub...


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## TominJapan

Works with the original Apple 30 pin to lightning connector plus my original 30 pin to usb camera connnection kit on an ipad mini with alpen fiio e17. Did not work with low cost adapters. I hope this helps.


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## ChromebookMicha

An passive USB hub as connector between lightning camera connection kit and Fiio E17 works. Then you can transmit digital audio from the ios device (ipad, ipod, iphone) to the Fiio E17.

You can see my setup at http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YZlmOEx4oio/VK2l7OmzqcI/AAAAAAAAiTM/dfalbl2-Crs/s1600/IMG_0468.JPG . I use an USB 3 port hub cable. The 2 ports can be cut away and it will act like a adapter cable. The Fiio USB charging function has to be switched off.

More information you can find on my blog http://serious-gadgets.blogspot.com


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## Wiz33

I was going to do this on a E17K with the Apple CCX cable and the mini hub (the Apple lightning to 30pin adapter to the Fiil L9 bypass the DAC on the E17K). But after I added up the extra cost, I realize that I can get a Teac HA-P50-B for a few dollar more. Yes, it is much more bulkier than the E17K but I won't have deal with the cable management nightmare (which adds bulk too). I just wonder why Fiio did not cough up the licensing fee to direct apple connection as that would make a for a much smaller package.


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## Cepanca

Confirmed Apple LCC kit works from iPhone 6 to Fiio E17.  I bought a cheaper one on amazon and it did not work.  I ordered a used apple one for 20$ and it works perfectly, even works while in charge mode.  Hope this helps someone.  I created an account specifically to report my success and failure.


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## Kinalagorda

Cepanca said:


> Confirmed Apple LCC kit works from iPhone 6 to Fiio E17.  I bought a cheaper one on amazon and it did not work.  I ordered a used apple one for 20$ and it works perfectly, even works while in charge mode.  Hope this helps someone.  I created an account specifically to report my success and failure.



Thanks for the info. Ive just ordered the same LCC original kit and will check if it works with an IPhone SE.


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