# ALO audio New amp+DAC : "The International"



## LemanRuss9

Just found out that ALO will release their new amp+DAC.its called the international.No info is provided yet.
   
  Courtesy of MunKong Gadget
   
   

New arrival!! The first dac-amp from ALO. It's called "The International" (Not "National") I wonder why Ken name it so similar to each other.
  
 This one is portable DAC/AMP with balanced in and out. Dac is Circus Logic CS4398 that usually put in many high-end brand SACD players.
  
 ALO also tell me that "The International" amp section will work well from sensitive iem to hard to drive full size can.
  
 Here is the picture. Enjoy!!
  
  
 Thank you mtthefirst for ther translation


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## mtthefirst

Quote: 





lemanruss9 said:


> Just found out that ALO will release their new amp+DAC.its called the international.No info is provided yet.
> 
> Courtesy of MunKong Gadget
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Let's me translate for you
   
  New arrival!! The first dac-amp from ALO. It's called "The International" (Not "National") I wonder why Ken name it so similar to each other.
   
  This one is portable DAC/AMP with balanced in and out. Dac is Circus Logic CS4398 that usually put in many high-end brand SACD players.
   
  ALO also tell me that "The International" amp section will work well from sensitive iem to hard to drive full size can.
   
  Here is the picture. Enjoy!!


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## x838nwy

Nothing on the alo website so far...
But i'm sure it's authentic news, though. These boys are a little on the odd side but iirc are not partial to spoof's etc.


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## GrumbleFish

Definitely for real. I just got an email about it from ALO. Strongly considering a purchase...


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## shigzeo

It's a tight box packed with some good functionality. I expect it to be a hit, perhaps even surpassing the popularity of some of ALO's recent (and mostly awesome) amps. IEMS: lots of control in the volume pot at low gain. Better ergonomics than any ALO amp to date with lots of space between single ended in/out plus the front/back location of the balanced input. Just as solid as the National is, but with an integrated pot/power switch.


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## AnakChan

So it seems it was announced somewhat prematurely but anyway it's finally out :-
   
  http://www.aloaudio.com/the-international
   
  Interesting choice of using the Cirrus Logic DAC, CS4398. This is the same DAC used in the Marantz DV9500 SACD/DVD-A player.


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## mtthefirst

If it work with idevice, I would definitely get this but it seem doesn't work with idevice.


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## AnakChan

Standard USB DACs are a lot easier to churn out than iDevice DACs...what with the strict MFI requirements Apple imposes on makers.
   
  However with Android 4.1+ and Samsung's USB Audio implementation on their Galaxy and Note products, it's opened doors for USB DACs to the mobile/cellular world too.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





mtthefirst said:


> If it work with idevice, I would definitely get this but it seem doesn't work with idevice.


 
  It does work straight out of the box with iPad (30 pin - I've not tried lightning). It works with 30pin iPod touch as well (jailbreaked). No problems at all. USB input offers a LOT more power to headphones than SE line in, but still pretty good balance/control with very sensitive earphones such as Sleek Audio CT7. With line in (SE), you have limitless control over balance with low Ω earphones. The difference is about 20dB between the two inputs. It is pretty damn sweet with the tiny iPod nano 6G. Of course, the iPod's output is nothing compared to a CLAS or DX100.


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## mtthefirst

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> It does work straight out of the box with iPad (30 pin - I've not tried lightning). It works with 30pin iPod touch as well (jailbreaked). No problems at all. USB input offers a LOT more power to headphones than SE line in, but still pretty good balance/control with very sensitive earphones such as Sleek Audio CT7. With line in (SE), you have limitless control over balance with low Ω earphones. The difference is about 20dB between the two inputs. It is pretty damn sweet with the tiny iPod nano 6G. Of course, the iPod's output is nothing compared to a CLAS or DX100.


 
   
  With 30 pin, do you mean 30 pin to 3.5mm or 30 pin to usb?
   
  I'm using Go-Dap X right now with my ipod touch G5, so if "the international" will work through lightning to mini usb, I'll definitely buying this baby.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





mtthefirst said:


> With 30 pin, do you mean 30 pin to 3.5mm or 30 pin to usb?
> 
> I'm using Go-Dap X right now with my ipod touch G5, so if "the international" will work through lightning to mini usb, I'll definitely buying this baby.


 
  30 pin to USB. I've not tried lightning as I don't have the adapters. I'm quite sure the iPad would work, but without a jailbreak for current iPhone/iPod touch, it may not work with them. But iPod 4G 30 pin to USB and iPad 1,2,3 work great. No fuss at all. The internal battery powers the USB and DAC. It's wonderful.
   
  EDIT: The International is better as a USB DAC than the DAP X is in almost every way. Noise levels are a bit higher in the GoDAP. The gain is MUCH easier to use and resolution with low Ω earphones is better with the ALO DAC. It's probably best at driving dynamic earphones or BA of 32Ω and higher, but it works pretty damn good.


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## mtthefirst

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> 30 pin to USB. I've not tried lightning as I don't have the adapters. I'm quite sure the iPad would work, but without a jailbreak for current iPhone/iPod touch, it may not work with them. But iPod 4G 30 pin to USB and iPad 1,2,3 work great. No fuss at all. The internal battery powers the USB and DAC. It's wonderful.
> 
> EDIT: The International is better as a USB DAC than the DAP X is in almost every way. Noise levels are a bit higher in the GoDAP. The gain is MUCH easier to use and resolution with low Ω earphones is better with the ALO DAC. It's probably best at driving dynamic earphones or BA of 32Ω and higher, but it works pretty damn good.


 
   
  Very interesting. I just drop an email to ALO asking about this. I'm searching for a new DAC/Amp that can work with my ipod touch and MH335DW. One thing that I notice from using Go-Dap X with my TG334 is that the 47Ω output impedance of Go-Dap X make mid and high a little bit more forward and suppress all the bass. I'm current decide between this and HiFi-M8 for my Go-Dap X replacement.


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## x838nwy

Do, is iDevice compatibility (proper digital out, not just the line out) confirmed??

I wonder how this compares to my clas-db + rx3b combo...


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Do, is iDevice compatibility (proper digital out, not just the line out) confirmed??
> 
> I wonder how this compares to my clas-db + rx3b combo...


 
   
  Yes Shigzeo, do tell! On the page it doesn't say anything about iDevice support. Is this a properly Apple supported device (i.e. supporting iAP)? I didn't think this supported Apple products.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





mtthefirst said:


> Very interesting. I just drop an email to ALO asking about this. I'm searching for a new DAC/Amp that can work with my ipod touch and MH335DW. One thing that I notice from using Go-Dap X with my TG334 is that the 47Ω output impedance of Go-Dap X make mid and high a little bit more forward and suppress all the bass. I'm current decide between this and HiFi-M8 for my Go-Dap X replacement.


 
  Bass isn't suppressed with The International like with the Go DAP. Not sure why Venture chose a 47Ω output for a _portable_ amp. I sort of understand desktop manufacturers choosing such settings. Sort of. The HiFi-M8 again is quite a different machine too. The International is about compactness (smaller than the National). Will be interesting to see the M8, but I think the two are very different machines.


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## DGriff0400

looking forward to the comparison betweeen this and the glacier.no 3.5mm headphone jack tho.....


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Yes Shigzeo, do tell! On the page it doesn't say anything about iDevice support. Is this a properly Apple supported device (i.e. supporting iAP)? I didn't think this supported Apple products.


 
  Well, it's not a DAC like the CLAS is for ALL iDevice products. Rather, its USB DAC works with jailbreaked products (at least) and 30 pin iPads at the very least. I just need to find a lightning to mini usb cable and I'll tell you.


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## Grev

Very interesting.


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## noxway

iPad Mini, Lighting to USB Camera Adapter, ALO USB A to Mini B, The International, SXC 22 JH Audio IEM Cable, 1964 Ears IEMs (via FB)


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## shigzeo

Nox: great to see that newer iPads work too. I would assume that iPhone may as well but we will see. I will pick up a cable today. If it doesn't, all it needs is a jailbreak, but as we know iOS 6 jailbreak is slow in coming.


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## ungawa

Very interested in seeing how this stacks up against the rsa Intruder...


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## mtthefirst

Got a reply from ALO about iDevice support. They're not officially support iDevice. With USB camera adaptor on ipad, you can get digital out but it's probably won't work on iphone or ipod unless jailbreak. Right now, I'm leaning toward HiFi-M8 (M8 is probably 100$ more than the international).


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## NorthernAvengeR

Wondering how it compares to the upcoming Centrance Hifi-M8.


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## shigzeo

I'm sure the M8 will rock, but these two are very different amps/DAC for very different purposes.


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## dryvadeum

dgriff0400 said:


> looking forward to the comparison betweeen this and the glacier.no 3.5mm headphone jack tho.....




I second that as i just ordered a glacier for my s3 and then stumbled upon this thread thinking i pulled the trigger too early? 

What Cirrus chip does the Apex Glacier use?


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## VisceriousZERO

How about the 30-pin to USB cable that came with the CLAS-dB? Would it work with the International?


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## AnakChan

visceriouszero said:


> How about the 30-pin to USB cable that came with the CLAS-dB? Would it work with the International?



Could try but I'm going to guess you're going to get the "too much power required" with a stock iPad. Even with a JB iPad, you'll need the Cydia Camera Connector app.


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## VisceriousZERO

anakchan said:


> Could try but I'm going to guess you're going to get the "too much power required" with a stock iPad. Even with a JB iPad, you'll need the Cydia Camera Connector app.




Well we'll have to use another DAP then xD


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## shigzeo

anakchan said:


> Could try but I'm going to guess you're going to get the "too much power required" with a stock iPad. Even with a JB iPad, you'll need the Cydia Camera Connector app.


With iPad you don't need to jailbreak. You also don't need extra power. 

iPod touch has enough juice if you go from camera connector and are jailbreaked.


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> With iPad you don't need to jailbreak. You also don't need extra power.
> 
> iPod touch has enough juice if you go from camera connector and are jailbreaked.


 
   
  Is that a general statement about USB DACs or specifically about the International? I can say that if you're on iOS 4.2 and above and you want to use a USB DAC via the CCK, you'll at minimum will need the jailbreak and the Cydia camera connector driver and even that's not guaranteed to work with all USB DACs.
   
  With the International, I don't know as I don't own one. But since it's been explained it's not an Apple supported device, I'm therefore treating it as a standard USB DAC. If this is not the case with the International, how is this USB DAC different from other USB DACs?


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## VisceriousZERO

So how then will we be able to make use of the DAC if we want something PORTABLE and not TRANS-portable? Get an android device?


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## AJHeadfi

So .... what is the head-fi niche the _International_ is aimed at filling?


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Is that a general statement about USB DACs or specifically about the International? I can say that if you're on iOS 4.2 and above and you want to use a USB DAC via the CCK, you'll at minimum will need the jailbreak and the Cydia camera connector driver and even that's not guaranteed to work with all USB DACs.
> 
> With the International, I don't know as I don't own one. But since it's been explained it's not an Apple supported device, I'm therefore treating it as a standard USB DAC. If this is not the case with the International, how is this USB DAC different from other USB DACs?


 
  No mobile phone has a fully functioning USB port. It doesn't matter the connector or the software. The DAC on the input device matters. If that DAC can be powered with below 20mw, then it is fine. if not, then it won't run on a current iDevice. If a specific Android device has more power than that, then as long as the DAC needs that minimum input, it should run. If a DAC needs 5V to run, no smartphone in the world will power it.
   
  You will need an external battery pack or to hit the mains.
   
  My iPod touch 4G jailbreaked runs the International. The iPad does not need to be jailbreaked to run it. Even current models. They seem to run fine. It's a matter of the blocked USB calls in iPhone/iPod touch that can be addressed by jailbreak, not a matter of power - at least with the International. Its DAC either receives plenty power from 20mw, or from the battery inside the International.


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> No mobile phone has a fully functioning USB port. It doesn't matter the connector or the software. The DAC on the input device matters. If that DAC can be powered with below 20mw, then it is fine. if not, then it won't run on a current iDevice. If a specific Android device has more power than that, then as long as the DAC needs that minimum input, it should run. If a DAC needs 5V to run, no smartphone in the world will power it.
> 
> You will need an external battery pack or to hit the mains.
> 
> My iPod touch 4G jailbreaked runs the International. The iPad does not need to be jailbreaked to run it. Even current models. They seem to run fine. It's a matter of the blocked USB calls in iPhone/iPod touch that can be addressed by jailbreak, not a matter of power - at least with the International. Its DAC either receives plenty power from 20mw, or from the battery inside the International.


 
   
  Not too sure what you mean by "a fully functioning  USB port". Wasn't implying that at all. I don't know of any DACs that draw less than 20mw (presumably you're talking about an external DAC with circuitry around it, etc....not talking about the DAC chip itself and it's power requirements). Most portable DACs have their own power source (either batteries or mains power pack). Those that don't like the JDS Labs ODAC would pull it from the PC.
   
  I agree with you it's the protocol but in the protocol communication between the DAC and the computer or iDevice, and exchange of information as to what power is required. So these two points of protocol and power are not mutually exclusive.
   
  The reason I'm quoting the iOS 4.2 version for the iPad is that before that version, the iPads allow (via the CCK) for USB devices (including DACs) to draw up to 100mA however it was deemed to be draining the iPad's power source unreasonably as such since iOS 4.2 to now, that power requirement was dropped to 20mA. And this is done actually via the iAP communication when the USB device is hooked to the iPad.
   
  Anyway, my question was whether your statement was in general for all USB DACs (which I'd probably would have disagreed with you), or if it's specifically with The International which you replied it is which is much more plausible.


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Not too sure what you mean by "a fully functioning  USB port". Wasn't implying that at all. I don't know of any DACs that draw less than 20mw (presumably you're talking about an external DAC with circuitry around it, etc....not talking about the DAC chip itself and it's power requirements). Most portable DACs have their own power source (either batteries or mains power pack). Those that don't like the JDS Labs ODAC would pull it from the PC.
> 
> I agree with you it's the protocol but in the protocol communication between the DAC and the computer or iDevice, and exchange of information as to what power is required. So these two points of protocol and power are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> ...


 
  My reply was tackling just the power requirement. Since no USB ports on any smartphone support the full power requirement of USB (and few laptops do, either), DACs that draw more power than the USB port can handle need extra power. The iPod touch works perfectly fine with the International's DAC, which is powered by the battery. Certain DACs take their power from the mains, or from the source. Those devices never work without external power. Examples of those devices are: Pan Am, Porta Tube; examples of DACs that don't require external power (that power from the internal battery) are: hippo cricri+, The International. 
   
  If an Android device can push out more power, chances are it will power more DAC devices via USB, but if the device pushes the same power, it will be stuck just like the iPod touch, or the iPad is. 
   
  iPad does not need to be jailbreaked to be used. iPod touch does.


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> My reply was tackling just the power requirement. Since no USB ports on any smartphone support the full power requirement of USB (and few laptops do, either), DACs that draw more power than the USB port can handle need extra power. The iPod touch works perfectly fine with the International's DAC, which is powered by the battery. Certain DACs take their power from the mains, or from the source. Those devices never work without external power. Examples of those devices are: Pan Am, Porta Tube; examples of DACs that don't require external power (that power from the internal battery) are: hippo cricri+, The International.
> 
> If an Android device can push out more power, chances are it will power more DAC devices via USB, but if the device pushes the same power, it will be stuck just like the iPod touch, or the iPad is.
> 
> iPad does not need to be jailbreaked to be used. iPod touch does.


 
   
  I think I may understand with Pan Am, not certain with Porta Tube. But I'm quite sure I tried my iPad with the hippo cricri+ (this is the tiny gum box one right?) and thought that the iPad +CCK and it said it needed too much power and didn't want to talk to it.
   
  I understand what you're saying about power but I think it's geting into the nitty-gritty details of what happens during the protocol communication exchange between the DAC & the iDevice.
   
  So far the only DAC/Amp that works my iPad are desktop DAC/Amps like the HP-A8 & the Benchmark DAC1 Pre. I've yet to come across a portable DAC/Amp that works with the iPad (in USB mode). So I'll be sure to give that International a shot.
   
  Sorry to go OT for the rest of the audience here.
   
  Edit #1: Just to be clear, I'm not doubting The International specifically as it's proven to work from pix, not to mention your previous statement "....at least with the International.". But right now I think this is the only portable DAC/Amp that works with the iPad via the CCK (or in the pix, with the Lightning).
  Edit #2: I've brought this conversation here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/507559/list-of-dacs-that-work-with-ipad/615#post_9136779


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## Shootinputin187

Does anybody know the MSRP of this product?


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## shigzeo

You can find that information by going to ALO's website. It costs 599$ USD.


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## flatmap

Quote: 





shootinputin187 said:


> Does anybody know the MSRP of this product?


 
  It's $599 USD:  http://www.aloaudio.com/the-international


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## Linea

Considered getting the RSA Intruder but then read that the Intruder has a 16/48kHz chip
vs the International that houses the Cirus 24/96kHz so now I am getting the ALO 
International to be my main source of power for the LCD2.

In the writeup they mentioned that the single ended input is balanced via the circuitry
and can be used as an output on the ALO Int.  Knowing that the balanced output has more
power than the single ended I got a Green Linea 4pin to XLR adapter to connect the LCD2 
to the amp.  
   
My question is:   should I use a LOD cable from the iPod to 1/8 adapter to connect an 
iPod Classic to the amp or should I get a LOD to USB mini?  What is your suggestion. 
   
Also what is your opinion on ALO Internationa vs RSA Intruder?  
   
Thank you...


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## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





linea said:


> Considered getting the RSA Intruder but then read that the Intruder has a 16/48kHz chip
> vs the International that houses the Cirus 24/96kHz so now I am getting the ALO
> International to be my main source of power for the LCD2.
> 
> ...


 
   

 Just AB-ed Intruder vs. International
   
  Three crazy audiophiles agree:
   
  International beats Intruder in:
  Soundstage
  Neutrality (Less dark)


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## Linea

I read two reviews where they mentioned that the International
  has better dynamics, punchier bass and the chip difference (vs the Intruder)
 The chip is not that much of an issue (maybe on the long run)
  but the other facts are.  International is on its way.
   
  Searched the net for LOD iPod to mini USB... nobody is making that adapter.
  I guess the standard LOD to 1/8 will do.
   
  Thnx for reply...vZero


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## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





linea said:


> I read two reviews where they mentioned that the International
> has better dynamics, punchier bass and the chip difference (vs the Intruder)
> The chip is not that much of an issue (maybe on the long run)
> but the other facts are.  International is on its way.
> ...


 
   
  The CLAS-dB comes with one and I think there's one made by ALO...
   
  http://www.aloaudio.com/sxc-24-30-pin-to-usb-mini-a-en
   
  And no problem


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## AnakChan

visceriouszero said:


> Just AB-ed Intruder vs. International
> 
> Three crazy audiophiles agree:
> 
> ...



This just keeps getting better. My my current rig-of-joy is the dB+RxMk3 balanced. I'd be particularly curious if the International tops the RxMk3 in balanced. Any comment on hiss & pot scratch on The International??


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## Linea

Yes.. I have seen that adapter on the ALO site.  Thanks for reminding me. 
  Of course there is always that question what do we gain getting that
  connection over the LOD and the gold plated 1/8 (FiiO L9)  which is
  ten times less in price.    

 I also wonder how is the International with smaller headphones like
  the Etymotic ER-4 MicroPro on low gain...  all those questions
  and doubts...  I guess I will soon find out. 
   
  Thnx again...


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## VisceriousZERO

Portability at last...

EDIT:
Compared to the MK3 the hiss is minimal, and no pot scratch, that I hear right now.


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## Burju

anakchan said:


> I think I may understand with Pan Am, not certain with Porta Tube. But I'm quite sure I tried my iPad with the hippo cricri+ (this is the tiny gum box one right?) and thought that the iPad +CCK and it said it needed too much power and didn't want to talk to it.
> 
> I understand what you're saying about power but I think it's geting into the nitty-gritty details of what happens during the protocol communication exchange between the DAC & the iDevice.
> 
> ...




AnakChan and Shigzeo,
Keep the conversation going, please. I appreciate both of your insights.
Lots of us have been scratching our heads on how to make our iPads (the 2, mini, and 4) to work with any DACs outside CypherLabs.
It looks as if this International should work but which output -----16 bits or 24? It didn't clarify on their Facebook pics and posts.
Cheers


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## shigzeo

It will be 16 bit via iPad/jailbreaked iPod/iPhone and 24 bit via computer.


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## Burju

shigzeo said:


> It will be 16 bit via iPad/jailbreaked iPod/iPhone and 24 bit via computer.




Shigzeo,
Thank you, I can stop scratching now...Lol.


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## Grev

So how is this compared to the Cypher Labs Solo -db?


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## Linea

The "International" Mini 24bit/96kHz USB DAC 
input can only be connected to an iPod/iPad 30 pin 
connector with a LOD to Mini USB cable that costs 
about $100 (from ALO).  There is also the amazon
FiiO LOD L9 cable (pure copper) to 1/8 audio 
connector to the single end input that costs $10.
   
If a user rips all his CDs from  16bit/48kHz 
audio CDs and his WAV or FLAC files are all
that format is there any benefit to use the
more expesive cable or the FiiO cable is just 
fine to connect an iPod/iPad to the amp.
   
Am I missing something?


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## shigzeo

The ALO international does not work like a CLAS. It works as a regular USB DAC. Plug the camera connector in and any USB a to b adapter. iPad does not need to be jailbreaked. iPod touch and iPhone do. 

That is it.


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## noxway

Do you just need to "jailbreak" or do you need to install right after a specific app or do something?
Is there a way to know you actually bypass the iphone limitation via a test or an app (kind of before/after test)?


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## LFC_SL

Quote: 





grev said:


> So how is this compared to the Cypher Labs Solo -db?


 
   
  What is frightening (for wallets everywhere) is that Audiohead thinks the International and Solo -DB in combination adds something to the overall picture


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> What is frightening (for wallets everywhere) is that Audiohead thinks the International and Solo -DB in combination adds something to the overall picture


 
   
  Worth a try at the very least (not visible but backend IC balanced) :-


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## Linea

In my case the ALO "International" amp/DAC will be connected 
the following way.  The LCD2s will have a balanced cable (from
Audeze) with an XLR end.  Using the Moon Audio Silver Dragon
adapter (mini 4 pin to female XLR) they will connect to the 
balanced output on ALO Int. 
 My only question here is which LOD should I use to get 
the best quality output.  The logical option here is the 
ALO 30 pin LOD to Mini USB connector from iPod to 
the USB DAC. 
 If that is the answer then I am all set.


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## VisceriousZERO

Just used my RWA iMod on my International with my 335s and wow they're constantly amazing me. The instrument separation is killing me!


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## Grev

Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> What is frightening (for wallets everywhere) is that Audiohead thinks the International and Solo -DB in combination adds something to the overall picture


 
  Kind of saying that my RXmk3 is obsolete? :/


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## Anthony1

Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> What is frightening (for wallets everywhere) is that Audiohead thinks the International and Solo -DB in combination adds something to the overall picture


 
  Wonder if the there is the pot scratch noise with the International balanced in/out


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





anthony1 said:


> Wonder if the there is the pot scratch noise with the International balanced in/out


 
   
  Nope . That was my first test when I tried it - clean as a wistle!! Having said that, I tried the Rx Mk3 next to it and there little to no pot scratch either.
   
  Now I'm wondering when I first got my Rx Mk3 last year if there was pot scratch free and developed over time or if it was always like that.


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## Anthony1

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> Nope . That was my first test when I tried it - clean as a wistle!! Having said that, I tried the Rx Mk3 next to it and there little to no pot scratch either.
> 
> Now I'm wondering when I first got my Rx Mk3 last year if there was pot scratch free and developed over time or if it was always like that.


 
  Well we cant all have imagined it lol
   
  mine still makes the scratching noise but only when I turn the volume up/down
   
  Might buy the AK100 + DB2 + this puppy (or use my RX3B)
   
  your thoughts? Do you have that combo already?


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## shigzeo

Quote: 





grev said:


> Kind of saying that my RXmk3 is obsolete? :/


 
  Certainly no. The RXMK3 overall is a higher performing amp than the International is. The International is the pinnacle of utility and space, but the RX is and always has been about performance. That comes first. It stands toe-toe with L3, FiQuest and a few other big hitters. The International is a great amp/DAC, but its target is everything. It's a great jack of all spades. The Rx lacks a DAC but its output circuit is the queen of spades.


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## AnakChan

Quote: 





anthony1 said:


> Well we cant all have imagined it lol
> 
> mine still makes the scratching noise but only when I turn the volume up/down
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've not tried the AK100+DB2. Rudi or his friend has the DB2. To me though I'm personally happy enough with the AK100 DAC so I'd just use the AK100 with an external amp.


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## AJHeadfi

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Certainly no. The RXMK3 overall is a higher performing amp than the International is. The International is the pinnacle of utility and space, but the RX is and always has been about performance. That comes first. It stands toe-toe with L3, FiQuest and a few other big hitters. The International is a great amp/DAC, but its target is everything. It's a great jack of all spades. The Rx lacks a DAC but its output circuit is the queen of spades.


 
   
  So it's spades then, aimed squarely.


----------



## rudi0504

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> I've not tried the AK100+DB2. Rudi or his friend has the DB2. To me though I'm personally happy enough with the AK100 DAC so I'd just use the AK100 with an external amp.


 
   
  Quote: 





anthony1 said:


> Well we cant all have imagined it lol
> 
> mine still makes the scratching noise but only when I turn the volume up/down
> 
> ...


 
  AK 100 stock + ibasso DB 2 via optical cable + alo Rx 3 B or the intruder is one if the best AK 100 stock combo 
   
  overal : more clear , more detail , has better tonal balance and better bass impact and very
               Clean deep bass.


----------



## rudi0504

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Certainly no. The RXMK3 overall is a higher performing amp than the International is. The International is the pinnacle of utility and space, but the RX is and always has been about performance. That comes first. It stands toe-toe with L3, FiQuest and a few other big hitters. The International is a great amp/DAC, but its target is everything. It's a great jack of all spades. The Rx lacks a DAC but its output circuit is the queen of spades.


 
  Yes it is true shigzeo 
  i am totally agree with your explanation above 
   
  between international vs intruder I want hear by my self sometime in this week .
  i think Dac section international has plus point 
  but for the amp section i must try by my self 
   
  for fair A and B comparison :
  DAC section : 
  source : iMac or pc
  Dac : Use these two  DAC from international and intruder 
  Amp : use only one amp for example international 
   
  amp section :
  source : iMac or pc
  Dac : use one Dac from these two Dac either from international or intruder 
  Amp : use these two amps 
   
  with this above methods is fair A and B comparison


----------



## LFC_SL

Re: Clas Solo db + International combination
   
  To clarify I asked Audiohead on their International review comments section what difference was heard between using single ended vs balanced connecting the Clas Solo db + International together. You can read the brief conversation yourself. Nothing more than a point of interest.
   
  Not at all a case of the International being the best external amp to pair with the Clas solo db, I certainly have no clue. Accordingly for iDevice users, which of: (1) Solo db + International, *or* (2) Solo db + RXMK3, *or* (3) Solo db + xxx amp is better is yet to be determined.
   
  By "determined" I mean a general consensus forming from many professional and amateur reviews and comparisons. So we all look forward for those impressions as they come in


----------



## AnakChan

I've been trying to find out some info about this DAC/Amp. Does anyone know if this is fully balanced? I have read from the ALO page that they use the Burr Brown DRV134 which takes SE and balances out (thereby phase splitting) but presumably that means using SE from an external DAC.
   
  However, what happens when it's used :-
   
  1) as a USB DAC? Does it phase split or is it fully balanced throughout? One of the pros of the CLAS -dB+Rx Mk3 combo is that it's fully balanced back-to-front
  2) [and more importantly to me] when used with the CLAS -dB with balanced IC, would the circuity be fully balanced too back-to-front, like the Rx Mk3?
   
  This info seems hard to come by. Anyone has any info about this is greatly appreciated.


----------



## shigzeo

My review is pretty much finished. I have just to finish a final stress test (loud volumes to check distortion with several headphones) that will take me most of tomorrow morning. So far, the International seems to pack the best of the National with some of the great stuff of the Pan Am, but in a portable package. Layout is better than either in some ways; size is a big plus, but the front panel array is perfect. In terms of driving resolution, the International and the National seem to be pretty even if not a dead heat, so you get excellent power and control for a huge range of headphones. IEMs are best served by the Rx, but apart from that, I'm not sure what to say other than this thing is pretty damn good. The volume control (when used with weak line-level sources such as iPods) is great for IEMs and the crisp midrange sounds wonderful.


----------



## shigzeo

By the way, the International has passed the Sleek Audio CT7 test with colours. CT7 is a VERY sensitive earphone. Still, noise is low, balance is good at lowest usable volume level and there is more than one hour (on the pot) of tuning space before the earphones become too loud. This is on LOW gain.


----------



## burgunder

It seems to be a bit unfair to compare this amp to the Rx MK3 because of the price difference.
   
  This looks very nice, even though I don't really need portable, it seems very tempting as an upgrade from my Ibasso D7, even though something desktop sized might offer better performance for the $.
   
  It looks current limited in balanced mode with low impedance cans BTW.


----------



## shigzeo

It performs similarly to The National with low Ω earphones, but has a much lower noise floor. In fact, its noise floor is almost Vorzuge level. It betters IEM-specific amps from hippo and GoVibe in terms of black backgrounds. Lots of power (same as The National) for full sized headphones and the DAC works great with iOS iPad and iOS5 iPhone/iPod touch.


----------



## polapat

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> It performs similarly to The National with low Ω earphones, but has a much lower noise floor. In fact, its noise floor is almost Vorzuge level. It betters IEM-specific amps from hippo and GoVibe in terms of black backgrounds. Lots of power (same as The National) for full sized headphones and the DAC works great with iOS iPad and iOS5 iPhone/iPod touch.


 
  Hi shigzeo
  For the iPhone5, will it has to be jail-broken?


----------



## shigzeo

All iOS5 devices seem to work with The International's USB output. iPad units do not have to be jailbreaked. iPhone and iPod touch units do. However, iPhone 5, and all non-iPad devices updated to iOS6 seem to not work with BigBoss Camera Connector app and consequently, the Camera Connector accessory shows up as "Device is not supported by this [iDevice name]". However, you can access analogue line outputs of your iOS6 devices easily with a lightning to 30 pin connector. I've not tried lightning -> 30 pin -> 30 pin camera connector yet. 
   
  It's just iOS 6 that doesn't seem to recognise camera connector accessory via iPod touch and iPhone. Again, that is only digital out. Analogue works flawlessly.
   
  NOTE: The International isn't designed for iOS or smartphone devices specifically. It is a plug and play USB DAC. That's it. But, since its DAC draws its power from the internal battery and not from USB, it works without hassle with all pre-iOS 6 iDevices (30 pin iPod touch and iPhone) plus iPad and iPad mini of any generation.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Was just playing around with a Raspberry Pi and this is what happened:



That's a Raspberry Pi using the DAC/Amp of the ALO International into a TH900. What fun!


----------



## AnakChan

visceriouszero said:


> Was just playing around with a Raspberry Pi and this is what happened:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/791023/width/400/height/600
> 
> That's a Raspberry Pi using the DAC/Amp of the ALO International into a TH900. What fun!


You may want to explain your connection there.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





anakchan said:


> You may want to explain your connection there.


 
  Well in all honesty I have no idea what I did... just followed a guide online
   
  http://www.audiohobby.com/?p=54
   
  And did what they instructed... Soon I was SSHing music files to the RPi and using mpc to connect my iPhone (thru wifi) and play the music files I sent in... So far I've been able to play .wav, .alac, and .flac files  I haven't tried with anything higher than 44.1/16 though.


----------



## shigzeo

Well, The International came away with a KISS. It is just so well thought out that I could give it no other rating in my final review. Well done ALO.


----------



## customNuts

I have a random question to people who have heard such combos: Which do you think would give the best performance - phone 4 line out to rx3B or phone 4 jailbroken usb out to international? Both combos running balanced out.


----------



## LFC_SL

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> Well, The International came away with a KISS. It is just so well thought out that I could give it no other rating in my final review. Well done ALO.


 
   
  Awesome. So with my collection it appears you favour the International over Rx Mk3 for IEM?
   
  Secondly, with Solo -db, do you favour International or Rx Mk3 as a headphone amp only? Single ended / balanced connected difference?


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





customnuts said:


> I have a random question to people who have heard such combos: Which do you think would give the best performance - phone 4 line out to rx3B or phone 4 jailbroken usb out to international? Both combos running balanced out.


 
  From my tests, performance is still best from any line input. USB sounds good, but its performance (like the performance of many USB DACs) isn't as good as a GREAT line in. The iPhone 4 has a very good but not great line out. Using a CLAS will get you 100% the quality capable from a 16 bit source. Of course, no amplifier on the market will stand up to full 16 bit resolution, noise, etc., but amps like the International will benefit from better input.
  Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> Awesome. So with my collection it appears you favour the International over Rx Mk3 for IEM?
> 
> Secondly, with Solo -db, do you favour International or Rx Mk3 as a headphone amp only? Single ended / balanced connected difference?


 
  The Rx3 has overall better resolution. The difference in some cases is noticeable, but in the main, The International does very well with IEMs - better so than The National. The max frequency drop off I detected was -1,3dB in bass, but with an offset of about 2,5dB in upper mids for a total of just under 4dB in worst-case situations. I'd wager that even so-called 'golden ears' wouldn't be able to detect it with anything but a straight sine wave. With music running, they'd be hard pressed to tell. 
   
  As an amp only, again the Rx3 is for the most part, a better performing amp, but it does have much more noise in the signal than the International does. This new amp has less background noise than many an IEM amp. My T3D still beats it as does the Pico Slim, but those are iem only amps. I've detected no noticeable difference between sending a good single ended signal to the amp rather than a balanced signal. I think they should perform equally in the output, whether single ended or balanced. Remember, if you use dynamic based earphones, balanced will likely give noticeable improvements/changes in all areas. With balanced armatures, the transducers have to be made specifically for a balanced setup in order to gain any improvement. Otherwise, they will change character without any improvements to what you like already. ALO sell a 334 which is supposed to work great with balanced amplifiers because of internal optimisations.


----------



## sobrietywarrior

subbed


----------



## belisk

If using it as a desktop amp:
  Since the DAC doesn't draw power from the USB, but the battery, is it safe to leave it connected via the power cord?


----------



## shigzeo

Well, batteries are tricky buggers. Rechargeable batteries need to be constantly drained and refilled. It is probably best not to fully drain it each time, but to use it for several hours up to 10-12 hours and then charge it again. Also, leaving it plugged in will waste electricity. Use it like you would use a notebook computer. THat should keep things running well enough.


----------



## customNuts

Quote: 





shigzeo said:


> From my tests, performance is still best from any line input. USB sounds good, but its performance (like the performance of many USB DACs) isn't as good as a GREAT line in. The iPhone 4 has a very good but not great line out. Using a CLAS will get you 100% the quality capable from a 16 bit source. Of course, no amplifier on the market will stand up to full 16 bit resolution, noise, etc., but amps like the International will benefit from better input.
> The Rx3 has overall better resolution. The difference in some cases is noticeable, but in the main, The International does very well with IEMs - better so than The National. The max frequency drop off I detected was -1,3dB in bass, but with an offset of about 2,5dB in upper mids for a total of just under 4dB in worst-case situations. I'd wager that even so-called 'golden ears' wouldn't be able to detect it with anything but a straight sine wave. With music running, they'd be hard pressed to tell.
> 
> As an amp only, again the Rx3 is for the most part, a better performing amp, but it does have much more noise in the signal than the International does. This new amp has less background noise than many an IEM amp. My T3D still beats it as does the Pico Slim, but those are iem only amps. I've detected no noticeable difference between sending a good single ended signal to the amp rather than a balanced signal. I think they should perform equally in the output, whether single ended or balanced. Remember, if you use dynamic based earphones, balanced will likely give noticeable improvements/changes in all areas. With balanced armatures, the transducers have to be made specifically for a balanced setup in order to gain any improvement. Otherwise, they will change character without any improvements to what you like already. ALO sell a 334 which is supposed to work great with balanced amplifiers because of internal optimisations.


 
  Thanks for the reply. Interesting re the usb dac though, I find almost all usb dac/amps sound better using the usb dac as opposed to a line out unless of course the line out id from a better dac. Again most usb dac's I've tried were an improvement over the iphone 4 internal dac (although the iphone 4 is very good imo).
  I am a self confessed bass/musicality lover, which amp do you think fairs better in this respect?


----------



## shigzeo

I won't speak for what 'sounds' better, but for what performs better, the line in it is for most USB portable DAC units I've tried. 
   
  As for musicality, what means that word to you? To me, it's a sense of PRAT with great edges and a bit of distortion. It's the reason I love the National. The International does one better than The National in all departments and has less hiss. While for some harsh headphones, the Continental is more suited, The International is growing on me crazily.


----------



## customNuts

Thanks mate. The international sounds like a keeper. Now to decide between that & the intruder. 
  Oh & musicality to me is a slightly warm sig ie not dead neutral, strong, impactful toe tapping bass. A little smooth but still crisp enough with good PRAT etc, etc.


----------



## LFC_SL

Quote:  





> As an amp only, again the Rx3 is for the most part, a better performing amp, but it does have much more noise in the signal than the International does. This new amp has less background noise than many an IEM amp. My T3D still beats it as does the Pico Slim, but those are iem only amps. I've detected no noticeable difference between sending a good single ended signal to the amp rather than a balanced signal. I think they should perform equally in the output, whether single ended or balanced. Remember, if you use dynamic based earphones, balanced will likely give noticeable improvements/changes in all areas. With balanced armatures, the transducers have to be made specifically for a balanced setup in order to gain any improvement. Otherwise, they will change character without any improvements to what you like already. ALO sell a 334 which is supposed to work great with balanced amplifiers because of internal optimisations.


 
   
  Many thanks. As an ex-RSA Tomahawk owner anything without a black background would be accepted with a slight... if you know what I mean
   
  It does appear the International vs Rx3 as an amp differ only by the smallest percentages and either would make an excellent choice?
   
  To clarify also and sorry for the confusion, my query was in relation to any SQ difference connecting Solo -db to an amp via single or balanced (assuming you have a balanced amp of course). The headphone would remain single ended. But what you wrote is still relevant as somewhat confirms my thinking a balanced headphone cable would be the final upgrade for my logic and only then as an experiment


----------



## shigzeo

Quote: 





lfc_sl said:


> Many thanks. As an ex-RSA Tomahawk owner anything without a black background would be accepted with a slight... if you know what I mean
> 
> It does appear the International vs Rx3 as an amp differ only by the smallest percentages and either would make an excellent choice?
> 
> To clarify also and sorry for the confusion, my query was in relation to any SQ difference connecting Solo -db to an amp via single or balanced (assuming you have a balanced amp of course). The headphone would remain single ended. But what you wrote is still relevant as somewhat confirms my thinking a balanced headphone cable would be the final upgrade for my logic and only then as an experiment


 
  The International has equally good inputs, whether balanced or single ended. If you can feed it a purely perfect 16 bit signal from single ended, it won't get any better via balanced. But if the balanced signal you send is of higher quality, then of course it will be better. It all depends on the quality you can send. The CLAS DB does great work in either format, and the International will spit a wider, slightly more detailed image from its balanced output, but it doesn't really matter if you use balanced or single ended on the input. The final stage is great.


----------



## sobrietywarrior

Can the International drive the HE-6 well?


----------



## shigzeo

I haven't used it on the HE-6. It does very well on both the LCD2 and 3, though. I don't know if that helps.


----------



## sobrietywarrior

The LCDs are fairly easy to drive. I was wondering how the International does with hard to drive headphones.


----------



## shigzeo

Well it has the voltage and current necessary to headphones down to about 30 ohm with low sensitivity. If you have doubts, try the national with the headphone you want. That will give you an idea as the two perform similarly.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I've used it on the HE-6 and it performs beautifully at high gain and volume at 12 o'clock.


----------



## shigzeo

Do you know what listening volume you frequent the most? I tend to be safe and rarely if ever exceed 85dB. I tend to keep things between 75 and 80dB. At 12 o'clock, how much headroom is left before squishing of soundstage, flattening of dynamics with HE6? I found it could go almost to 100% on most high Ω headphones. Midrange Ω headphones petered out sooner, but that is typical.


----------



## syobwoc

has anyone done a true comparison to the Continental V3? I'm interested in either the Continental or the International. For now my main cans are the AKG K702 65th annies and i'd like to add some warmth. Anyone have any suggestions for which one would be best? I do have several iDevices that i'd love to use the DAC with, but first priority goes to warmth.  I've been a lurker for so long, I might as well create an account and ask for myself. Thanks in advance!


----------



## shigzeo

The Continental has a warmer sound if that is what you want. Power-wise, both amps are well suited to the AKG headphones you own.


----------



## Spidermeng

Anyone try the international with ak100 ?
 Quite interested tis little amp


----------



## VisceriousZERO

spidermeng said:


> Anyone try the international with ak100 ?
> 
> Quite interested tis little amp




They're a great combo... Only the RWAK sounds better than the AK since what you're essentially doing is double amping..


----------



## jaytee189

Quote: 





spidermeng said:


> Anyone try the international with ak100 ?
> Quite interested tis little amp


 
  i do run ak100+alo international with solid silver m2m with oyaide gold jacks.
  i use this combo mostly with my EarSonics SM64 or my custom Balanced Beyer Dynamics T5p with alo copper 4pin squared balanced cable.
  Amp powerwise, International has lots of power. I usually set to Low Gain for my T5p and Medium Gain for my 112 ohms SM64 to get the punchiness.
  the sound is really clean with lost of details. Separation and staging is great too. The Bass is well controlled on my SM64 and punchy on my T5p. Mid is great, not too laid back and not too forward. Just great to my taste. The high is a little bit brighter but still acceptable for my liking. it makes the highs on my SM64 sings better. 
  overall, i think that international is made to complement ak100 as its pair. the size says it all. 
  I will post the pics once i have the privilages to do so. 
  regards
  jaytee189


----------



## Mimouille

Hello everyone,
   
  I currently use DX100 + Tralucent T1 amp and wonder if the AK100 or RWAK100 as tranport with Internation as Dac/AMP would perform as well / better. Just using as a transport, does it make a difference if you use AK100 or RWAK100 ? I already asked V0 more or less, but maybe others have inputs.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Jazzyfi

As a transport it won't make a difference. BUT.. it won't work with the International. AK100 optical output won't work with the International USB input.


----------



## Mimouille

Thanks...I will have to stick with the Tera  


jazzyfi said:


> As a transport it won't make a difference. BUT.. it won't work with the International. AK100 optical output won't work with the International USB input.


----------



## Jazzyfi

Or buy my iQube and feed it with AK100 optical. Hehe.


----------



## Mimouille

Quote: 





jazzyfi said:


> Or buy my iQube and feed it with AK100 optical. Hehe.


 

 Oh you mean give on my DX100 for more portability and end up with a larger rig...makes sense, where do I sign ?


----------



## kskwerl

Can anyone with personal experience with the LCD-2 and the International comment on the synergy with the amp and also driveability?


----------



## kskwerl

ok, I pulled the trigger one The International


----------



## mat-t

how does this compare to the RSA SR-71B?


----------



## burgunder

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> ok, I pulled the trigger one The International


 
   
  I'll be looking forward to your impressions with the LCD-2.


----------



## kskwerl

Quote: 





burgunder said:


> I'll be looking forward to your impressions with the LCD-2.


 
  Yes they are suppose to be a very good match


----------



## ExpatinJapan

It is interesting that I see the International paired with the AK100 so much.... as the 
  ALO International output impedance comes in at 21ohms - and the AK100 at 22ohms.
   
  If the aim is not only to amp but to fix the impedance issue, Seems kinda pointless to me? (See PDF for data/stats).
   
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-amp-measurements-donealmost-aaaaarghh
  PDF here
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AllAmpGraphs.pdf
   
  *Still waiting for Continental/MX/National measurements.


----------



## toads

ffffffk...i find this out the day i buy a used one here on HF to pair with my rwak....i assumed alo knew what they were doing....
   
  thanks alot expat....i'm personally holding you responsible for killing my post purchase buzz...


----------



## Mimouille

Quote: 





toads said:


> ffffffk...i find this out the day i buy a used one here on HF to pair with my rwak....i assumed alo knew what they were doing....
> 
> thanks alot expat....i'm personally holding you responsible for killing my post purchase buzz...


 

 I am guessing for low impedance iems the RWAK does not need amping and you can use the international for harder to drive headphones no ?


----------



## toads

true enough, however my current iems are low impedance as is my only current f/s set, the 50ohm Mad Dogs...
   
  generally speaking, does anyone know if impedance measurements vary between SE and balanced outputs...?...FWIR, gain settings have no impact on impedance, correct...?
   
  high SE measurements are not that big an issue as i'm planning to use the balanced output primarily...just hope they rate lower balanced... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i've got an email into ALO, but i'm not holding out much hope; i've never received a reply in half dozen inquires i've made in the past....


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





toads said:


> ffffffk...i find this out the day i buy a used one here on HF to pair with my rwak....i assumed alo knew what they were doing....
> 
> thanks alot expat....i'm personally holding you responsible for killing my post purchase buzz...


 
  oops, my bad 
   
  Maybe try posting in their forum section of head-fi sponsors. Ask em about the other amps too. See what they say.


----------



## AnakChan

expatinjapan said:


> oops, my bad
> 
> Maybe try posting in their forum section of head-fi sponsors. Ask em about the other amps too. See what they say.


Good find EiJ. Hard to find stats on ALO in general. Any idea about the impedance of the other ALO amps?


----------



## toads

I've just concluded an email conversation with Josh who claims he doesn't have the output measurement available...uh-huh


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





toads said:


> I've just concluded an email conversation with Josh who claims he doesn't have the output measurement available...uh-huh


 
  LOL


----------



## Radiohead99

Regarding the USB Dac performance of this Unit, headphonia opinion is completely different than touchmyapps review.
   
  I've three questions:
   
  1. Will it work ( the dac section ) with classic Ipod 160gb (2010)?
  2. Will I sacrifice much if I use it for IEM with 20 ohm impedance?
  3. How does the sound quality compare to say SONY PHA-1, Fostex HP-P1, VAMP VerZa, Go Dap X
   
   
  Ok, one more question: what would be the best IEMs for this device?


----------



## Snoopy Ears

Just curious how this one stacks up against the V-MODA VERZA.  Any insights would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!


----------



## Snoopy Ears

Just got an email from Josh at ALO saying that the DAC on the International won't work with Android Smartphones or iPods.


----------



## sobrietywarrior

I have my International working with my Nexus Galaxy and Nexus 7.
   
  Get an OTG cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Mini-B-Micro-B-Android-4-0-Above-OTG-cable-4-5-inches-iBasso-Audio-/111036655521?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccesories_MobilePhoneDataCables_JN&hash=item19da4ce7a1
   
  Get USB Audio Recorder Pro: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro&hl=en
   
  This setup can play all my flac hd audio.


----------



## sobrietywarrior

One weird thing though is the usb cable that comes with the International doesn't work with my MBP. I had ALO send me another one and that one doesn't work either. I had to use one I found around the house which is about 3ft long and that one worked fine.


----------



## Snoopy Ears

sobrietywarrior said:


> I have my International working with my Nexus Galaxy and Nexus 7.
> 
> Get an OTG cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Mini-B-Micro-B-Android-4-0-Above-OTG-cable-4-5-inches-iBasso-Audio-/111036655521?pt=UK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccesories_MobilePhoneDataCables_JN&hash=item19da4ce7a1
> 
> ...




Looking sweet!


----------



## julesjjl

I appreciate this is probably a stupid question, but do most people use the DAC on this, when listening via ipad/android (if they can get it to work!)...  Am interested in whether most use just the amp with their mobile + save the DAC for when used with laptops etc..
   
  Appreciate, probably demonstrating my noob status, with this question!  Oh well, we've all got to start somewhere
   
  J


----------



## Snoopy Ears

I am hoping to use a DAC on my phone.  The HTC One X just sounds dull compared to my iPod 5G and the most likely culprit is a crappy DAC.


----------



## sobrietywarrior

Quote: 





julesjjl said:


> I appreciate this is probably a stupid question, but do most people use the DAC on this, when listening via ipad/android (if they can get it to work!)...  Am interested in whether most use just the amp with their mobile + save the DAC for when used with laptops etc..
> 
> Appreciate, probably demonstrating my noob status, with this question!  Oh well, we've all got to start somewhere
> 
> J


 
  It'll depend on your use case really. If you want a mobile setup and can get a digital out from your device, this is a great product since it's small, light and has plenty of power. The DACs on idevices and android phones won't compare to the one in a dedicated high end audio device such as the International. If lets say you had the AK100 as your source which already has a good DAC, then probably you would consider an amp only device like the National, Rx MK3-B or the SR-71B.


----------



## rianchaos

Quote: 





julesjjl said:


> I appreciate this is probably a stupid question, but do most people use the DAC on this, when listening via ipad/android (if they can get it to work!)...  Am interested in whether most use just the amp with their mobile + save the DAC for when used with laptops etc..
> 
> Appreciate, probably demonstrating my noob status, with this question!  Oh well, we've all got to start somewhere
> 
> J


 
   
  I used the ALO International in a lot of ways, DAC/AMP on laptop, DAC/AMP on iPad, or just the Amp withipad and iPhone when I want to conserve the battery or use my mini2mini.
   
  I do not currently own an Android device but I tested it on my friend's Sony Xperia Z and it did not work, so what he did was that he used his Pico DAC on USB OTG and then connect to the International. Double amping them is never an option and XZ has no Line Out.


----------



## Komkrit

At balanced out put > Can it use with adapter for single-end headphone? (mini balanced to 3.5mm female adapter)


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## Kiont

komkrit said:


> At balanced out put > Can it use with adapter for single-end headphone? (mini balanced to 3.5mm female adapter)




Why not use the single end output?
Same results


----------



## Komkrit

Thank you.
Because I use that adapter with the Protector
I feel it has better sound than original single end out put.


----------



## Rockem

Can someone compare the amp section to the SR-71A?
  I wonder how the two differ
   
  thx


----------



## toads

international has an output impedance of 22ohms....
   
  it was a poor match for my various IEMs ranging in impedance from 8 to 26 ohms...boomy, bloated bottom end, and sizzling highs in varying degrees with the IEMs...no comparison to my SR-71b...
   
  i sold it...absolutely no regrets...well i actually regret buying it....
   
  i've heard it does perform well with f/s headphones with higher impedances...YMMV


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## kskwerl

I would like to hear more impressions of the International with high end IEMs. The above posters findings are discouraging


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## midnightwalker

Quote: 





kskwerl said:


> I would like to hear more impressions of the International with high end IEMs. The above posters findings are discouraging


 
   
  It seems you own an International in your sign? By the way, my impression about this amp is: powerful and impact bass, fast decay, great PRaT...would be good for fast pace music. I would recommend the Continental V3 for slow pace music such as vocal, ballard, etc. for deeper bass, slow decay and silky vocal.
   
*Hiss: dead silence background when pairing with Audeze LCD3, Denon D5K (fullsize) and Earsonics SM64 (high impedance iem)
   
Now this is a strange thing: when pairing with my JH16 (low impedance iem): hiss occurs in LOW gain (acceptable level to me) but it reduces in MID gain and disappear in HIGH gain. That is totally strange to me. Anyone owning an International: could you please help me to verify or explain this?
   
  So now, I am using the high gain when pairing with my JH16


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## jasonxff

Does anyone knows what chips is used in the International? Or does anyones even knows the full technical specifications of the International? Why ALO Audio did not publish any tech specs at all?


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## ButtUglyJeff

Quote: 





jasonxff said:


> Does anyone knows what chips is used in the International? Or does anyones even knows the full technical specifications of the International? Why ALO Audio did not publish any tech specs at all?


 
   
   
  Cirrus Logic CS4398...
   
  I think the old version of ALO's site had more specs.  Anyways, I got that from the headfonia review...
   
http://www.headfonia.com/alo-international/


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## kskwerl

Quote: 





buttuglyjeff said:


> Cirrus Logic CS4398...
> 
> I think the old version of ALO's site had more specs.  Anyways, I got that from the headfonia review...
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/alo-international/


 

 All the tech specs are still on their new website


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## kskwerl

Tech Specs    Frequency Response:  10-25,000 Hz
  Output Power - Balanced: 

 130 mW into 32 Ohms
 200 mW into 50 Ohms
 330 mW int 600 Ohms
 660 mW into 300 Ohms
   Output Power - Unbalanced:

 130 mW into 32 Ohms
 160 mW into 300 Ohms
 200 mW into 50 Ohms
 83 mW into 600 Ohms
 
 Power and Battery    Built in Rechargeable Lithium-Polymer Battery
  Playtime:  14-16 hours (Amp Only)   8-10 hours (USB DAC and Amp)
  Recharge Time: 3 hours
  Charges via included wall power adapter


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## jasonxff

So is it confirmed that the output impedance of the International is 22ohms? Or was it 32ohms? I am confused...


----------



## ExpatinJapan

22ohms.


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## freesurfer

Is this 22ohms issue too bad for use with IEMs? Have anyone had an experience using this amp/dac with IEMs?


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## midnightwalker

Not that bad. I can't say it is best match with the SM64/JH16/K3003i/LCD but it drives them well. Punchy bass, great PRaT.


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## ButtUglyJeff

ALO posted a video on facebook, announcing that iDevices running IOS7 will all play via the CCK/USB.  Which means it will use DAC in the International...
  
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201335605985218&set=vb.110094225748830&type=2&theater


----------



## KB

Hi All,
  
Its true, and good news!! the International amp/DAC now pulls the digital stream off iPhones using the new iOS 7 with any CKK kit ! Yippie! 
  
Let your ears be the judge. 
  
Thanks,
  
Ken
  
  
  
 /img/vimeo_logo.png


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## voteforpedro

Fantastic! Super excited that my investment in an International can now be used with my iPhone. It's not that I don't like my AK100, but rather I now have choices:
  
 AK100 by itself
 AK100 with ALO International (International DAC bypassed)
 iPhone 5 with ALO International (International DAC in use)
  
 Awesome!


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## ButtUglyJeff

Ken,
  
 It might be a good idea to share the part number of the Camera Connection Kit, as there are multiple "camera" cables on Apple's site.
  
 Thanks


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## deniall83

expatinjapan said:


> 22ohms.


 
  
 Really? That's ridiculous! Why did they do this?


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## KB

buttuglyjeff said:


> Ken,
> 
> It might be a good idea to share the part number of the Camera Connection Kit, as there are multiple "camera" cables on Apple's site.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Sure its this one see HERE
  
 Part number is
  
 MD821ZM
  
 Thanks 
  
 Ken


----------



## voteforpedro

I wonder if this will work:
  
 http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD820ZM/A/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter
  
 In combination with something like this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/8inch-USB-2-0-Micro-B-to-USB-Mini-B-Male-Male-Adapter-Cable-CablesOnline-AD-U38-/390625104778


----------



## j60868

rudi0504 said:


> AK 100 stock + ibasso DB 2 via optical cable + alo Rx 3 B or the intruder is one if the best AK 100 stock combo
> 
> overal : more clear , more detail , has better tonal balance and better bass impact and very
> Clean deep bass.


 
  
 Will this work with ak120 instead? What do I miss out if I skip the ibasso DB 2?


----------



## KB

voteforpedro said:


> I wonder if this will work:
> 
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD820ZM/A/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter
> 
> ...


 
 Voteforpedro,
  
 I have not tried this connector, if someone does let me know. I will order that connector in the meantime.
  
 But the good news is you can use the Apple Lightning to USB cable and DA convert files off your iPhone or iPad using the Internationals internal DAC. We displayed 2 using iPad minis at the RMAF show swapping our peoples phones, worked great sounded awesome. 
  
 Cheers.
  
 KB


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## ButtUglyJeff

A little off topic, but would using the CCK also work with your PanAm DAC/Amp?
  
 I guess I'm just curious if you tried...


----------



## rudi0504

j60868 said:


> Will this work with ak120 instead? What do I miss out if I skip the ibasso DB 2?




Yes it is sound more perfect than AK 100 AS transport 
Note : My IBasso dB 2 is full mod By My diy Friend Alex


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## Rl-s

Hi which of the amps has better pairing withy jh13fp? The international or rsa intruder?


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## iohk

Ken and Voteforpedro,
Have you had the opportunity to play further with adapters and cables? Any recommendation you'd be recommending for the agonising traveller? I have been using the CCK in the past but found it was not holding firm enough for me to carry an iPad 2 around. 
Many thanks,
K.


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## voteforpedro

I have a new cable on order with Double Helix. I ordered their Symbiote Hybrid. I do hope the sound signature changes some in favor of a more bright sound without losing the warm bass. Since iOS 7 now works with the CCK and any USB amp, you aren't stuck with using your iPad 2, as an iPhone or iPod will now work as well. Just a heads up.


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## iohk

Thank you Voteforpedro.
The news that we don't have to use the CCK, as per Ken's message and video is a fantastic news. 
I was wondering if you had tried other lightning adapters, USB cables, to shorten the first set up shown by Ken on the video.
Many thanks,
K.


----------



## Samhain

Hi Ken and voteforpedro,
  
 i am using international as a dec/amp combo with CCK to my iPhone 4s.. and i noticed i have not use the balance input, and just use the usb input. do you have any idea that i could use the balance input with my iPhone?


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## pieman3141

Does anyone know what the difference between the International and the International+ is? The back seems different, but other than that, are there any internal changes? I haven't found anything on Google.
  
 EDIT: I'm also trying to use this with an iPhone 5S  via CCK, and it's not working. I haven't received any error messages about power or anything, so I really don't know what's going on. Can anyone else confirm? It's the International+, by the way.


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## LFC_SL

Presumably same as Mk3b+ but not aware of any announcement of a new alo amp


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## pieman3141

Well, I have an International+ right here. The back has two micro-USB ports (one for data, one for charging) and a balanced-in port. The front looks exactly the same as the original. And the iPhone issue is still present. Should I go for a Lightning-30pin-LOD solution instead?


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## ButtUglyJeff

What app are you using to play your hi res files?  The stock player will not play above 24/48 I believe...


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## pieman3141

I don't have hi-res files. They're all 16/44.1, and I'm most likely sticking with that.


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## pieman3141

Sooo.. it's real. I wonder what the full specs of the old International were....
  
 http://www.aloaudio.com/amplifiers/the-international-plus-portable-amp-dac
  
 By the way, I'm still not sure why my iPhone didn't register the DAC. Is this a 5s issue vs. 5? I'm gonna go for the LOD-to-amp solution instead.


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## burgunder

I wonder which chip they have used as receiver chip en the + edition.


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## ButtUglyJeff

burgunder said:


> I wonder which chip they have used as receiver chip en the + edition.


 
  
 I just received an email from ALO announcing this.  They have it listed as a "CS4398 DAC".  Its still capable of the same 24/96 resolution.
  
 And with an output impedance of less than 1 ohm, the IEM guys should be on board with this amp.


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## FangJoker

I would love a comparison between the international+ and the rsa predator.


----------



## luisandre

vegasf1 said:


> I would love a comparison between the international+ and the rsa predator.


 
 Me too! I would like to see the feedback from someone who have used both.
 I´m planing on buying a portable amp/dac this summer, the Predator or the International+
  
 As far as I know, the international+ have some advantages:
 24bit vs 16bit
 Balanced output and input
 Charges via micro usb
 more towards apple idevices


----------



## JACONE

I just received my ALO International+ and really happy with it so far.
 It has about 10 hours of burn in. 
  
 Hardware
 DAP - stock AK 120
 Connector - ALO mini to min Compact SXC 22
 CIEM - JH 16 FreqPhase
 Using single ended
  
 Initial observations -
  
  
 Smaller than what I anticipated which is good
 Build quality is top notch
 Music is very detailed
 Music sounds more layered 
 Has a wider soundstage
 A nice black background
 No hiss at all
 Bass is tight and pronounced
  
 As I mentioned, really please with it and enjoying it.


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## ButtUglyJeff

jacone said:


> I just received my ALO International+ and really happy with it so far.
> It has about 10 hours of burn in.
> 
> Hardware
> ...


 
  
 Let us know how battery life is.  I've been interested in this device for quite some time.  Thanks for the impressions...


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## JACONE

Jeff -
  
 Battery life seems pretty good thus far! I charged it once when I got it since I wanted to have a full charge. I received it on Tuesday 8/12 and have used it for about 10 hours on same charge. Still going strong. 
  
 The killer feature on this amp is if you have an Iphone 5. All you have to do is buy the $29 camera adapter which I did and my IPhone 5 never sounded better.  The Cirrus DAC on the International is awesome. Very detailed, clean, smooth. So in essence, I can use it with my AK120, Fiio X3, and now my IPhone 5. This amp is very versatile and it sounds awesome! 
  
 Extremely happy with purchase!


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## pieman3141

I also asked around, and if you want to use this as a lineout, you can set it to the lowest gain and turn up the volume to max.


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## headphonemaniak

jacone said:


> I just received my ALO International+ and really happy with it so far.
> It has about 10 hours of burn in.
> 
> Hardware
> ...




Just wondering,..how loud is it?
Is one of my worries


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## JACONE

Headphonemaniak -
  
 It has three gains, Low, Medium, and Hi.
 I mostly have CIEM but have a pair of Sony's MDR -1R.
  
 With the CIEM and Sony's on low gain, it sounds very nice.
  
 I did audition the LCD-2s, and 3s on high gain and it sounded good but no great compared to a dedicated CAN amp.
 This is expected since a hight-end dedicated amp for CAN can cost in the $5k price range.
  
 IMO - The International + is a really nice amp for it's features relative to price.
  
 I hope this helps!


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## gradofans

I just listened to the international today at my fried's home . I have a HD600 on my head then . Quite surprised by the power it shows considering its size.
 Interesting


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## myap2328

I have got a few questions, wondering if anybody can help thanks guys!
  
 Would the Non Plus version work with low impedance iems?
 Does the dac work with iPod Classic 6 Gen.
 What are the difference between the Plus and Non Plus


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

myap2328 said:


> I have got a few questions, wondering if anybody can help thanks guys!
> 
> Would the Non Plus version work with low impedance iems?
> Does the dac work with iPod Classic 6 Gen.
> What are the difference between the Plus and Non Plus


 
  
 I would avoid pairing the non-"+" with low impedance IEMs, it has a much higher output impedance
 The DAC works with all IOS8 devices in conjunction with using the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK)
 the biggest differences are the + has a very low output impedance, and a much longer battery life


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## myap2328

buttuglyjeff said:


> myap2328 said:
> 
> 
> > I have got a few questions, wondering if anybody can help thanks guys!
> ...


 
  
 Alright, but can the Dac work 30-pin to USB directly from ipod to international?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

myap2328 said:


> Alright, but can the Dac work 30-pin to USB directly from ipod to international?


 
  
 No


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## myap2328

buttuglyjeff said:


> myap2328 said:
> 
> 
> > Alright, but can the Dac work 30-pin to USB directly from ipod to international?
> ...


 
  
 Thanks its a no for me then.


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## cj3209

Hi, my International + stopped working with digital signal from my Nexus 7 tablet (OTG cable).  ALO sent me another unit and this one stopped working as well.  Do you have this issue at all?  I'm using the OTG cable that ALO supplied.
  
 Thank you.
  
 CJ


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## cj3209

Well, the second unit ALO shipped to me worked! All is good and the sound coming out the International+ via my Note 4 (USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO App) and 24-bit files sound very very nice.
  
 Kudos to ALO for very good customer service.
  
 CJ


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## flatmap

cj3209 said:


> Well, the second unit ALO shipped to me worked! All is good and the sound coming out the International+ via my Note 4 (USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO App) and 24-bit files sound very very nice.
> 
> Kudos to ALO for very good customer service.
> 
> CJ


 

 Same here, I've always had great communication and customer support from them.


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## Ivabign

buttuglyjeff said:


> I would avoid pairing the non-"+" with low impedance IEMs, it has a much higher output impedance
> The DAC works with all IOS8 devices in conjunction with using the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK)
> the biggest differences are the + has a very low output impedance, *and a much longer battery life*


 
 I have the International - not the plus version - and I am wondering why my sensitive IEMs sound so damned good through it - I had a Predator and one of the reasons I sold it was that my SE846s didn't sound decent though it (bass was anemic and treble sounded artificial) - dynamic driver IEMs sounded great, but multi armature IEMs had problems. My International has no such issues - my 846's sound great - better than without the amp - my JH16's punch like Marciano and I really haven't found a set of IEMs that don't work with it.
  
 I sent a PM to ALO a while back to ask what the output impedance was on my unit and if the lower OI was the only difference between the regular and (+) models - they responded that they lowered the OI due to the feedback of buyers - not that they had a problem with the sound, but that it was easier to lower the OI than explain why the International sounded fine with sensitive IEMs the way it was... He pointed me to an article that spoke to amplifier design and impedance and it read a bit higher than my pay grade - I don't think the low impedance/low output impedance ratio is an absolute. This unit does not behave like other higher OI units I have owned or demoed (Predator included)
  
*Oh, and the International has the same rated battery life as the plus version*.... the difference is micro USB for charging and input as opposed to mini usb for input and a regular AC charging pin...
  
 I love this little thing - it is the richest sounding portable I have used - better than the Geek, the Predator, the Hornet, the C5D, the PHA-1 and FIIO E6 through 12...
  
 Very pleased


----------



## SckT

I have an AK120 with SE846, and I want to upgrade it in terms of soundstage and power, but not to make the trebles too sharp and ear-piercing.
 I wonder which will be my better option:
  
 1. + Glove Audio A1
 2. + ALO international plus
 3. AK120 MOD --> RWAK120 or MSAK120
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Anybody see this in their in box?
  
http://www.aloaudio.com/the-international-plus-optical-edition?utm_source=Users&utm_campaign=328f39635d-Introducing_The_International_Plus_Optical_Edition&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dcf4dd7c77-328f39635d-418381193&mc_cid=328f39635d&mc_eid=0e1524ac92
  
 Optical input for you A&K DAP
 Mini optical cables
 And an attractive carrying case?
  
 Seem a nice package...


----------



## JACONE

buttuglyjeff said:


> Anybody see this in their in box?
> 
> http://www.aloaudio.com/the-international-plus-optical-edition?utm_source=Users&utm_campaign=328f39635d-Introducing_The_International_Plus_Optical_Edition&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dcf4dd7c77-328f39635d-418381193&mc_cid=328f39635d&mc_eid=0e1524ac92
> 
> ...


 

 Looks like it provides another option which is optical. I agree that it's a nice package for sure!


----------



## palermo

owh, they change the DAC too


----------



## baritone

hi all
 has anyone open the international and have some pictures to show ?


----------



## palermo

for what purpose ?


----------



## baritone

> for what purpose ?


 
 why ? first because I am very curuious what kind of electronics do such sensastional sound
 second to see for my self the quality of building
 third , I dont think I will do reverse engeniring and copy the circuits
 I intend to buy the international by the begining of the next month in France for my preodered el8s
 the SQ and the beauty of construction go together with me
 my request is because after my research at the net give me no pictures at all
 the natural place to ask is here


----------



## palermo

baritone said:


> why ? first because I am very curuious what kind of electronics do such sensastional sound
> second to see for my self the quality of building
> third , I dont think I will do reverse engeniring and copy the circuits
> I intend to buy the international by the begining of the next month in France for my preodered el8s
> ...


 
 +1

 I wish could have this one, I'll do it for you for fun. Even the Island has been modified by now, just enjoy.


----------



## LFC_SL

buttuglyjeff said:


> Anybody see this in their in box?
> 
> http://www.aloaudio.com/the-international-plus-optical-edition?utm_source=Users&utm_campaign=328f39635d-Introducing_The_International_Plus_Optical_Edition&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dcf4dd7c77-328f39635d-418381193&mc_cid=328f39635d&mc_eid=0e1524ac92
> 
> ...



Interesting mk3b+ dropped completely

Summary says latest ios may prevent cck? Is that alo being cautious or is that verified

Signed
Using iPad mini retina on ios7


----------



## 413092

Hey guys,
  
 I posted this question in the International thread, but then I saw that there was a dedicated thread for the +. I've only used the DAC with android devices on my International + (non optical). I know it will work with the iPhone 5. Is it compatible with the iPhone 6? Not sure if anything has changed architecturally in the latest phone....
  
 Big thanks!


----------



## ekaw79

Hi all, 
Need help. Coz, cannot find other place to ask.
I have contact Alo email support, but havent get the solution.
I buy alo the international+ optical edition,and it works well with my android phone. But when i try to connect to laptop, there is error and cant hear anything from it. Using win 10 64bit and also win 7 64bit.


I think the problem is in the driver. Or my unit is problem.

Need help.
Thx


----------



## Rayoki

I'm having the same issue so if anyone figured it out please let us know


----------



## bozoskeletonz

Just so it's clear, it works fantastic with my iPhone 6 Plus and the camera cck cable. I think Apple is getting just a little better about letting dac's that do not use the phone's power work.


----------



## CLXMUSIC

I never had problems with both PC and with iphone 6 (DAC) .. great amp so much power and dynamics even with very difficult to drive headphones ..


----------



## melvin117

Feel like getting an International to act as an amp for my DX90 DAP.
 Might use it as a USB DAC for my MacBook Air. Though this is the least of my concern. Need not to put this function into consideration.
 I'm rocking a pair of Final Pandora Hope VI, Heaven VI and a few earbuds.
  
 So,
 Will the SQ improved significantly compare to driving cans and earphones with just my DX90?
 Is it still worth getting one now?
 I know that there are many new products and especially Chinese ones, the International is quite old already IMO.
 Is it still competitive when being compared to popular new choices such as Aune B1?


----------



## CLXMUSIC

melvin117 said:


> Feel like getting an International to act as an amp for my DX90 DAP.
> Might use it as a USB DAC for my MacBook Air. Though this is the least of my concern. Need not to put this function into consideration.
> I'm rocking a pair of Final Pandora Hope VI, Heaven VI and a few earbuds.
> 
> ...


 
 I consider it more a great amp that can drive any headphone iem to full size as much energy, and not underestimating the very silent balanced inputs and outputs good range of excellent construction Battery .. although many Chinese have your amp off for me is always alo an upper object.
  
 cheers


----------



## bamaskery

bozoskeletonz said:


> Just so it's clear, it works fantastic with my iPhone 6 Plus and the camera cck cable. I think Apple is getting just a little better about letting dac's that do not use the phone's power work.



 Has anyone gotten the optical edition version to work with Windows? I am having the same problem as mentioned above. Thanks


----------

