# Listening Impressions: Toxic Silver Poison/ TWag v2 Gold & Toxic Scorpion/ TWcu v3



## Joe-Siow

I have been using several third party cables with my previous ES5 and current Miracles. They include TWag v1, v2, TWcu 26 and Silver Dragon.
   
  I recently sold my Silver Dragon and am on the lookout for copper cables for use with my Miracle and 3rd Anniversary Studio V. With the help of some very nice chaps in the local forums here in Singapore, I managed to audition Silver Poison and Scorpion of Toxic Cables, and also TWag v2 Gold and TWcu v3 of Whiplash Audio.
   
  I would like to share the impressions of what I heard with the local forum and would also like to share it with the community here. The listening is done with my Miracle customs and Studio V with FLAC files. I listen to a variety of music, and used tracks from Michael Buble, Chris Botti, Corrinne May, Adele, John Mayer, Prudence Liew and Kit Chan.
   
   
   
*TWag v2 gold*
 I am happy to say that TWag v2 gold sounds very good. It is significantly better sounding than the old v2. The added gold content in the new cable addresses the issues that plagues traditional silver cables: the lack of bass impact and the "oh-too-clean-details". The bass now has more impact, better texture and slightly more in quantity compared to the old v2.

 Tonality wise, the sound signature is now fuller, sweeter sounding for vocals and slightly warmer. Despite introducing more warmth, clarity has actually improved. Details are more forthcoming and apparent in the new cable compared to the old v2.

 As a direct result of the added warmth, the mids now sound better. Tracks with vocals now sound better with more emotions and feelings.

 Staging performance has also improved over the old v2. It is now has more width with better layering in terms of depth.

 Treble is still well extended and very smooth despite the added warmth. It has the ever so slight sparkle of the usual silver cables, but it never overdoes it.
  

 Here comes the million dollar question: is the TWag v2 gold a better performing cable compared to Toxic Cable's Silver Poison? The long answer is: it depends on the customs/ IEMs that you are gonna pair the cables with. I always tell my friends this: at a high level of portable rigs of customs/ amps/ source trinity, weather or not a complete rig sounds good or not always depends on equipment pairing. You always need to consider the customs/ IEMs you have and decide how to fine tune the sound signature.
  

_For me personally, the Silver Poison edges TWag v2 gold with my Miracle. I cannot speak for others, but as far as I am concern, Miracle's forte is its treble and staging performance while bass is its weakness. _

_Comparing Silver Poison to TWag v2 gold, the former has a more kick ass bass, while maintaing an amazing amount of definition. This is high quality bass with even better texture and impact, combined even more bass quantity than TWag v2 gold. To be honest, while I am impressed with how TWag v2 gold performed in the bass department, I have to say I am amazed how Frank has juggled with the bass quantity, texture and impact without it bleeding into the other frequencies. I am more of a treblehead than basshead; give me a modest amount of bass and I can generally live with it. The bass performance of Silver Poison is just excellent; I did not think it is possible to extract bass of such quality from silver cables._

_Tonality wise, Silver Poison is heavier and slightly warmer. Again, the overall tonality of Silver Poison impressed me to no bounds. The rule of thumb in audio is if one is to introduce more warmth to the frequency, something usually has to sacrifice. The quality to be sacrificed for more warmth is usually clarity. However, despite being slightly warmer, the clarity of Silver Poison is on par with TWag v2 gold. That is extremely impressive, as Frank just showed be how he defied a basic rule of audio._

_Mids wise, I prefer Silver Poison's presentation. There is not much in between the 2 cables, but Silver Poison just shades it for me as vocals sounds slightly more emotional due to the slight warmer signature, while retaining the same amount of clarity._

_For me, Silver Poison performed better in soundstage. It sounded wider and deeper in soundstage than TW v2 gold, while also comes across as more spacious sounding. The difference between to the 2 cables is not big, but it is noticable to me._

_Treble is better sounding on TWag v2 gold than Silver Poison. This definitely has to do with the tonality differences of the 2 cables. As a direct result of its fuller and warmer tonality, Silver Poison's treble sounds slightly softer than TWag v2 gold's. TWag v2 gold sounds more crisp in the higher end, while retaining a slight sparkle that is missing from Silver Poison. Both cables are equally smooth sounding in the treble section__._
  
   
   
  The Scorpion/ TWcu v3 impressions to follow later. Gee, a cable review is much tougher than the usual IEMs/ headphones/ amps review, simply because the differences between cables can be rather close.


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## Joe-Siow

*Part II: TWcu v3 (8 conductors)*

 I listened to TWcu 26 in the past. I always thought of it as a relatively good cable. Until I had an opportunity to compare it against its successor. Let's just say what I heard wasn't good for 26. Not at all. The new v3 sounded better than the old 26 in every way imaginable.

 V3 has good bass performance. It extends deeper than the old 26 and has more impact. The new v3 also has more bass quantity than the old 26. All these improvement, without sounding overwhelming. And the bass doesn't bleed into the other frequencies.

 The new v3 also has better tonality. The old 26 now sounds almost so painfully thin in comparison. The new v3 is fuller and warmer sounding. But the clarity is still very good. Good details still can be heard from this cable.

 The mids sound clear and sweet. Vocal based tracks sound more emotional and I could swear I could hear Michael Buble crooning his ballad jazz tracks with even more feeling than before. The sound remains clear despite the added warmth. No fight from the old 26 then.

 The staging performance has also improved. While the old 26 doesn't sound closed and intimate, the new v3 now sounds more spacious. It also has slightly wider and deeper soundstage. Imaging is also quite good. When playing When I Fall in Love from the album Chris Botti in Boston, I could pin point the various instruments with ease.

 Treble remains well extended and smooth in both the v3 and 26. It however, lacks the slight sparkle that the new TWag v2 gold has. I listened to the v3 for around 20 minutes and didn't feel any fatigue setting in (I know, it's only 20 minutes), and I can safely say fatigue will not set in even in longer listening sessions.


 The above are my listening impressions of the new TWcu v3 and its comparison against the old TWcu 26. Below will be impressions of v3 against Scorpion from Toxic. Now, I would take the impressions below with a pinch of salt as it's a flawed comparison. The Scorpion that I listened to from my friend is a regular 4 conductor 26 AWG cable, while the v3 I auditioned is a 8 conductor 24.5 AWG cable. It's a case of apples vs oranges. Ultimately flawed and not very relevant.


_If the bass on v3 is good, the bass on Scorpion is just *AWESOME*. I have never heard bass of this level in any IEM cable, period. The impact is amazing and the bass runs so deep with the Scorpion. V3 simply cannot match Scorpion's bass impact, depth and quantity. All these while maintaining the definition of Scorpion's bass. I have no idea how Frank does it honestly. What makes it more astonishing for me is that Scorpion here has less conductors (4 vs 8) and is of thinner gauge (26 vs 24.5) compared to v3. Scorpion wins this round hands down.

 Tonality wise, Scorpion sounds slightly thicker and warmer than v3. However, as with the Silver Poison/ TWag v2 gold impression, I couldn't help but notice that clarity is on par for both Scorpion and v3. I would however, award a win on technicality for Scorpion; simply because it is more difficult to maintain the same amount of clarity for a thicker and warmer signature.

 In mids, both cables display the same sweet signature. Vacal based tracks sound both clear and emotional on both cables. It's a tie here.

 If the bass contest ended up a clear win for Scorpion, v3 is now totally annilated in the imaging and staging contest. The v3 sounds relatively spacious with good imaging. Scorpion matched that, and raised the stakes. It sounds more spacious, with a killer 3 dimensional sounding imaging. While listening to a live recording of Chris Botti in Boston, I could hear his trumpet and other instruments with amazing imaging; it is as though I am transported to Wilshire Theatre itself. Earily good. Scorpion also scored for me for sounding wider and deeper in the soundstage. No fight here, Scorpion just creamed v3.

 The v3 has the better treble, with it extending slightly further than Scorpion, which by all account, sounded slightly soft (but not recessed). It has the better treble energy of the 2. However, v3 lack that bit of sparkle that is present on the TWag v2 gold that I also heard. Clear win for v3 here for me._



 As mentioned, this is an unfair comparison as both cables are of different gauge and conductors. Despite so, I never once feel that Scorpion was fighting a losing war. i would choose Scorpion over TWcu v3 anyday. In fact, I am so impressed wih Scorpion, I placed an order for it after listening to my friend's cable. It has a really good synergy with Miracle.


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## nigeljames

Thanks for the comparisons.
   
  I have the original TWAG2 on my LCD2.2's and recently bought the Silver Poison for my HE6's and I feel both are excellent cables but being that they are used on different phones a direct comparison is impossible.
   
  I did not realize that Whiplash had a new TWAG cable so that is interesting to know but they seem to be significantly more expensive than the Toxic cables.
   
  I do disagree though with your opinion that silver cables lack bass impact. Maybe cheap silver cables but I have always found good quality silver cables to have plenty of impact and slam. My system also has pure silver interconnections (Artisan Ultimate Silver Dream) and it has amazing slam and impact when needed, but agian they are good quality silver interconnections.
   
  Anyway thanks for the comparisons, I am tempted to get another silver poison for my LCD2's but they sound so good it's not a priority.


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## cogsand gears

Thanks for the impressions. A very informative read!


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## DarknightDK

Great impressions and review of the cables. Looks like I'm swaying over to the SP for my HD800. Glad to see a fellow Singaporean on here.


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## Joe-Siow

I can't speak for the rest. But I once swopped my previous LCD-2 for a friend's HD800 cabled with TWag v2 for 2 weeks.
   
  I would definitely go for the SP with HD800. TWag v2 with HD800 still lacked bass for me. And it was too clean sounding.
  SP would address HD800's clean sound with a bit of warmth. And the bass impact and quantity definitely wouldn't hurt as well.
   
  My 2 cents worth. Nice to know a Singaporean here too!
   
   
   
  @cogsand gears
  No problem man, just trying to share more information with the community here.
   
  Thing with cable comparisons are they can be quite subtle sometimes.


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## Joe-Siow

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Thanks for the comparisons.
> 
> I have the original TWAG2 on my LCD2.2's and recently bought the Silver Poison for my HE6's and I feel both are excellent cables but being that they are used on different phones a direct comparison is impossible.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Hi! Personally, I have used silver cables most of the time with my customs. Maybe it's the smaller setup, but I generally feel that silver cables lack the impact. Except Moon Audio's Silver Dragon. That cable has a pretty good bass performance, though it sound pretty clinical with my Miracle at times.
   
  It is my belief that at this level, equipment pairing is extremely important. TWag with LCD-2 should be a very fine combination, as with HE6 with Silver Poison.


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## DarknightDK

Quote: 





joe-siow said:


> I can't speak for the rest. But I once swopped my previous LCD-2 for a friend's HD800 cabled with TWag v2 for 2 weeks.
> 
> I would definitely go for the SP with HD800. TWag v2 with HD800 still lacked bass for me. And it was too clean sounding.
> SP would address HD800's clean sound with a bit of warmth. And the bass impact and quantity definitely wouldn't hurt as well.
> ...


 
   
  Sounds great! Have been waiting for impressions of the SP and I'm glad you posted. With these sensitive IEMs, you can really get close to the 'sound' of the cable and the SP sounds like what I need.


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## Toxic Cables

Great read, thanks for sharing.


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## Joe-Siow

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Great read, thanks for sharing.


 
   
  The pleasure is entirely mine


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## maguire

Hey Joe
   
  Silver Poison V Scorpion......
   
  This would be a great review for Miracle Owners


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## KimChee

You pretty much came to the same conclusion that I did about the Scorpion.  It is a sexy cable!


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## Joe-Siow

Quote: 





maguire said:


> Hey Joe
> 
> Silver Poison V Scorpion......
> 
> This would be a great review for Miracle Owners


 
   
   
  Shucks...
   
  I ended up ordering both the Silver Poison and Scorpion for my Miracle...


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## Joe-Siow

Quote: 





kimchee said:


> You pretty much came to the same conclusion that I did about the Scorpion.  It is a sexy cable!


 
   
   
  Yeap... It is indeed a very sexy cable...


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## DarknightDK

Quote: 





joe-siow said:


> Shucks...
> 
> I ended up ordering both the Silver Poison and Scorpion for my Miracle...


 
   
  Very nice. I ordered the SP to go with my HD800. Your review helped to get me off the fence.


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## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





joe-siow said:


> Shucks...
> 
> I ended up ordering both the Silver Poison and Scorpion for my Miracle...


 
  I have the Silver Poison, Scorpion and Viper for my Miracles.


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## walkman_heart

thanks for sharing your impression comparing hi-end iem cables
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  if won't mind which is best cable for tf10? silver dragon or silver poison? or other cable?


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## Joe-Siow

darknightdk said:


> Very nice. I ordered the SP to go with my HD800. Your review helped to get me off the fence.





Feels good to be able to help. 

Cheers mate!


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## Joe-Siow

toxic cables said:


> I have the Silver Poison, Scorpion and Viper for my Miracles.





I hate it when I get busted like that Frank..

Urgh...

3 cables for a custom..

Great...


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## vincent199188

Hey Joe!
   
  just dropped by to say hi! lol..
   
  nice review!!


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## Joe-Siow

vincent199188 said:


> Hey Joe!
> 
> just dropped by to say hi! lol..
> 
> nice review!!




Thanks man!


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## maguire

So Joe, What goes better with the Miracle? SP or Scorpion? To your ears.....


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## Joe-Siow

Quote: 





maguire said:


> So Joe, What goes better with the Miracle? SP or Scorpion? To your ears.....


 
   
  Depends on your requirements.
   
  Scorpion has a harder hitting bass with more impact, warmer mids and a killer soundstage performance.
  SP is more transparent, has more clarity with better treble performance. SP is also more linear sounding so as to say.
   
  I like both, so I bought both, so I didn't had to choose.


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## Joe-Siow

maguire said:


> So Joe, What goes better with the Miracle? SP or Scorpion? To your ears.....




So which one are u getting?


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## maguire

Well both seem very good in their own ways so maybe a combination of both?


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## Joe-Siow

maguire said:


> Well both seem very good in their own ways so maybe a combination of both?




Ah... The 8 conductor hybrid cable...


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## walkman_heart

Joe, which is will be better cable between silver poison and silver dragon for tf10?
   
  and also what will be the difference between these cables in terms of soundstage, clarity, bass, mids and treble?
   
  thanks,


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## Joe-Siow

Quote: 





walkman_heart said:


> Joe, which is will be better cable between silver poison and silver dragon for tf10?
> 
> and also what will be the difference between these cables in terms of soundstage, clarity, bass, mids and treble?
> 
> thanks,


 
   
  I haven't heard TF10 in a gazillion years so I can't comment.
   
  Differences for SP and SD is as below:
   
     Bass: SP has better bass both in quality and quantity. SD has tight and quick bass.
     Mids: SP has slightly warmer and fuller mids. Both r as transparent with excellent clarity.
     Treble: SP has a more rounded treble. SD has a more sparkly trreble.
     Soundstage: SP is more expansive and spacious sounding with good width and depth. SD is slightly more intimate sounding.
   
  These listening impression is done based on my UM Miracle and 3rd Anniversary Studio V
  I'm using SD while waiting for my SP, Scorpion and Viper from Frank.


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## maguire

Thanks Joe for your thoughts regarding the different cables. Frank sure has a great range of  quality cables.


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## Joe-Siow

Quote: 





maguire said:


> Thanks Joe for your thoughts regarding the different cables. Frank sure has a great range of  quality cables.


 
   
  You are welcome man.
   
  Looking for a DAC. I've heard W4S DAC2. How does Audio-gd Ref 7.1 compares to it?


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## maguire

Hi joe, They are both very nice dacs.
  I have not compared them side by side as they are both on different systems. If I had to pick one it would prob be the 7.1 from Audio GD.
  You do not notice that its there..... very transparent, there are quite a number of threads on the quality of this Dac.


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## maguire

Oh also another thing that might also determine which one you may prefer is the size.... W4S has small footprint always remains cool to the touch.
  The Audio gd 7.1 .....Well its a Monster in comparison and can get hot. Class D runs alot more cooler.....
  The Dac 2 also has independent volume control & remote.


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## walkman_heart

Quote: 





joe-siow said:


> I haven't heard TF10 in a gazillion years so I can't comment.
> 
> Differences for SP and SD is as below:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, that would be impressive, time to save up for Silver Poison, thank you very much for sharing it


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## DarknightDK

Quote: 





joe-siow said:


> You are welcome man.
> 
> Looking for a DAC. I've heard W4S DAC2. How does Audio-gd Ref 7.1 compares to it?


 
   
  Highly recommend the Ref 7.1. It truly is a high end DAC and for the price it is one of the best in its class, outperforming others in its price category. However, do note that you will need a good transport for the Ref 7.1 to sound its best. You may want to consider the Master 7 instead.
   
  I haven't heard the W4S DAC so I cant give you a comparison of the two.


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## Toxic Cables

7.1 Is indeed a true high end DAC. Kingwa, makes some great gear at reasonable prices and i am proud to be the UK dealer for them.


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## gearofwar

can anyone here recommend me a cable that could bring Miracle to HD 800?


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## lmy243

Hi, i wonder if twag v2 gold is suitable to JH13 Pro.


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## IronLung

+1 whats the best for jh13pro?


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