# Audio-GD C-1 Master mono power amplifier



## punk_guy182

Check this out guys! This is some serious piece of hardware. ÐÂ½¨ÍøÒ³ 1
 If only I had the money to buy it.


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## scootermafia

Dear God...I want


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## tim3320070

Why so expensive? Why is it twice the $ of the C-10? It's got to be based on that like everything else he does?


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## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why so expensive? Why is it twice the $ of the C-10? It's got to be based on that like everything else he does?_

 

nah! It isn't the same as the C-10. It is an upgrade of the C-1. The power supply is seperated from other components and it is a truely balanced power amp as you can see. I can't remember how much the original C-1 cost but at 70kg I think that an important percentage of this amount goes for the casing.


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## gevorg

One word: Krell


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## punk_guy182

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One word: Krell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why?
 Krell amps are better?


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## Currawong

Now it just requires someone to buy a pair and complain that they run too hot.


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now it just requires someone to buy a pair and complain that they run too hot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You'll have more important things to worry about than the heat. You would need a dedicated circuit to run these things unless you constantly want to trip your circuit breaker. A standard 15 amp circuit only allows for 1800W. If these amps draw 1500W, well... you get the point.


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## squall343

gross weight 70kg

 shipping alone will kill


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## krmathis

Sure looks really nice!
 55kg of amplifier goodness.


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## insyte

Yikes 55kg


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## tim3320070

Running these off the Pheonix could be interesting- maybe next year.


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## atothex

Damn, that's a lot of class A power.


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## devin_mm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Running these off the Pheonix could be interesting- maybe next year._

 

The only thing that sucks is the Phoenix doesn't output ACSS.


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## eugenius

Not deserving of the name Master - it has no 2000W/1ohm continuous load rating and proof of it's temperature range with that load in a 30 degree Celsius heat.


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## tim3320070

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only thing that sucks is the Phoenix doesn't output ACSS._

 

Sure it does, you just unplug it from the Phoenix amp unit and plug it into the amp. That's a chore though for sure.


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## MadMan007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atothex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn, that's a lot of class A power._

 

No kidding, I saw it on their site a few days ago and after reading through that it was all Class A my eyes popped. 250W Class A is insane.


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## lmswjm

Add these puppies for about $15k, and you'll have a set-up that will probably contend with any on the planet. It's Stereophile's joint speaker of the year winner from 2008. The reviewer said it was the best he's ever heard.

Revel Salon2 - Product Information


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## Pricklely Peete

I'll be taking the plunge on a pair of these amps sometime in the new year. 

 Peete.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be taking the plunge on a pair of these amps sometime in the new year. 

 Peete._

 

Definitely have surged to the top of my Salivation list as well!


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## lmswjm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be taking the plunge on a pair of these amps sometime in the new year. 

 Peete._

 

Dude awesome, I'll be waiting on the sidelines, probably along with many others.

 The question is: Would you also get the C-3SE to keep the ACSS chain going?

 How about a new a set of speakers to complete the upgrade? Looks like you could power something on the order of an IMAX theatre with those babies.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lmswjm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude awesome, I'll be waiting on the sidelines, probably along with many others.

 The question is: Would you also get the C-3SE to keep the ACSS chain going?

 How about a new a set of speakers to complete the upgrade? Looks like you could power something on the order of an IMAX theatre with those babies._

 

He's got speakers that have waited thier whole life for these. Definitely a C-3 or C-39. What a setup!


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## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure it does, you just unplug it from the Phoenix amp unit and plug it into the amp. That's a chore though for sure._

 

How would that work? The power supply would be useless without the amp section. The amp section is where the inputs go. You have no preamp without it.


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## tim3320070

You're right, I forgot the phoenix does not have ACSS output, only XLR (wishful thinking). I have not received my Phoenix yet if it seems I'm a little ignorant about it's use- this week hopefully (EMS never delivered it and Kingwa sent a new unit without receiving the one he sent originally without me even having to ask). I've had my headphones reterminated to balanced for 3 weeks now!


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## Pricklely Peete

The nature of my system requires at least 2 preamp outputs so I can split the signal off to the sub xover. Now I could just forgo such an arrangement but to sideline my subs would be a step backwards I think which the ACSS out would definitely do. I'll likely not loose too much in the way of signal integrity by forgoing an ACSS direct link to the C1 Masters or at least I hope that is the case. Anyway yes I have thought about upgrading from the Phoenix to the C3 or C8SE but I feel that may be side grade not worth persuing since I'll need another amp for the second set of speakers in my system at some point (stacked array will require at least 4 channels of amplification) with the prospect and expense of a second set of C1 Matsers being somewhat of a pipe dream...I'll have to settle (lol) for a C10 on the Maggies. With limited or finite resources I think concentrating on the amps is the best way to go for 2010. 

 However such a system should be a killer setup. The ET LFT-VIIIb's love major wattage and the C1 Masters should be a perfect fit for them. 

 My best solution for now is a compromise of sorts using the Phoenix as the heart of the distribution network 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Kingwa had mentioned until he upgraded his C3SE with the V2 ACSS modules that the Phoenix was a better preamp. I'll take him at his word on that one although I would love to get a C3SE MK II at some point if I manage to find a way to use multiple ACSS outputs that solves my particular needs for the big rig.

 Peete.


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## Charnwood

I've ordered a pair of C-1 Master's along with the C-3 Final pre-amp from AmpCity, Audio-gd's UK agent. I'm told they'll ship next Monday. It means my Phoenix will go back to being a headphone amp again. I found I was using the Phoenix mainly as pre-amp in my main system. I also get to free-up one shelf on my rack too, not an unimportant consideration. I'll now have space for a DAC. 
  The only user freeback I've seen on C-1 Master's was on Audio-gd's, whic now seems to have been removed. There the user stated the C-1's ran cooler than his Phoenix so I'm not convinced the amps run entirely in Class A.


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## les_garten

You would probably enjoy the OPamp thread and the HDAM threads for these questions.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/432749/the-opamp-thread
   
  There is a HDAM review thread as well but I can't locate it presently.  Curra knows or Peete, I'm betting.
   
  Those threads would keep you busy for a while.


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## Charnwood

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> You would probably enjoy the OPamp thread and the HDAM threads for these questions.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/432749/the-opamp-thread
> 
> ...


 


 I'm not quiet sure of the relevance of this but it'll help while away the time while I'm waiting for the amps to arrive.


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## Currawong

Marjkel did the HDAM review (I hope I spelled his name here correctly).  I would guess the Phoenix runs hotter because of the greater current provided for headphones, for which it has a serious excess for good measure. If you get any model with a vented top and bottom plates though, they run much cooler.
   
  If you don't already have a DAC, get the Reference 7 to complete the chain I reckon.


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## les_garten

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> I'm not quiet sure of the relevance of this but it'll help while away the time while I'm waiting for the amps to arrive.


 

 Heh,
     Yeah posted this in the wrong thread!


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## Charnwood

Quote: 





currawong said:


> If you don't already have a DAC, get the Reference 7 to complete the chain I reckon.


 

  
  A Reference 7 to complete the chain is planned, but currently I don't really have a need for one in my main system.  My two main system sources are a Marantz SA-7S1 SACD/CD player and a Michell Gyrodec with a SME Series V and Graham Slee phono stage. 
  A DAC to go with my Phoenix when I move it upstairs next to my computer is a more pressing need, I was considering the the Reference 5 for this, since it's similar in appearance to the Phoenix, but maybe I should get the Reference 7 and use it with the Phoenix until such time I a need for it in my main. If only I hadn't just learned my car needs a couple of thing doing to it that amount to more than the difference in cost between a Reference 5 and a Reference 7.


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## Charnwood

The C-3 Final and a C-1 Master arrived today. Yes, just one, the right hand C-1, no matching left hand C-1.  
  Fortunately, it seems the boxes just got seperated during shipping and the left hand C-1 Master should be with me on Tuesday.
   
  Had a listen for couple hours to just the one channel to get an impression and I have to say, the C-3 Final and C-1 Master  together sounded incredible straight out the box.   
   
  The C-1 Master at the end of the two hours was barely warm and the top plate isn't vented like the photos show on Audio-gd's website.
   
  I'll post more when I've had a good listen to two channels.


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## IPodPJ

I have a feeling that once you hear it you'd start using the Reference Seven with your main system, and just use the Marantz as a transport (unless you were spinning SACD).


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## punk_guy182

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> I'll post more when I've had a good listen to two channels.


 
  Please do!


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## les_garten

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> The C-3 Final and a C-1 Master arrived today. Yes, just one, the right hand C-1, no matching left hand C-1.
> Fortunately, it seems the boxes just got seperated during shipping and the left hand C-1 Master should be with me on Tuesday.
> 
> Had a listen for couple hours to just the one channel to get an impression and I have to say, the C-3 Final and C-1 Master  together sounded incredible straight out the box.
> ...


 

 Awesome setup!  Been wanting to do this setup myself.   What speakers?


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## Charnwood

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> I have a feeling that once you hear it you'd start using the Reference Seven with your main system, and just use the Marantz as a transport (unless you were spinning SACD).


 


 I think you're probably correct though I do enjoy the Marantz and I do spin a few SACD's. The posibility of getting the Marantz modified once the warrenty expires has passed through my mind a few times but I worry that I may not like the result as much. There's a lot I like about the Marantz but there's also things that could be better. Adding a Reference 7 to the system when finances permit is a better option and what I'm intending to do to the main sytem next.

  
  Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Awesome setup!  Been wanting to do this setup myself.   What speakers?


 

 My speakers are the original B & W Nautilus 804s in red cherry, a finish that's no longer available unfortunately. I've not been entirely happy with sound I've been getting but I've never been sure if it was due to short comings of the speakers or the amplifier. I had a Chord CPM 3300 on home demonstation for a few day just after Christmas to try and answer this question. In the UK, when the Nautilis 800 Series speakers first appeared they were often paired with Chord amps so I was expecting good things. I'm sorry to say the Chord made little difference. That is definitely not the case with the C-1 Master and C-3 Final combination and think I'm finally hearing what my speakers are truly capable of.


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## les_garten

Quote: 





charnwood said:


> My speakers are the original B & W Nautilus 804s in red cherry, a finish that's no longer available unfortunately. I've not been entirely happy with sound I've been getting but I've never been sure if it was due to short comings of the speakers or the amplifier. I had a Chord CPM 3300 on home demonstation for a few day just after Christmas to try and answer this question. In the UK, when the Nautilis 800 Series speakers first appeared they were often paired with Chord amps so I was expecting good things. I'm sorry to say the Chord made little difference. That is definitely not the case with the C-1 Master and C-3 Final combination and think I'm finally hearing what my speakers are truly capable of.


 

 Sweet, that should be nice.  Those amps should make them do what they can do!


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## cyberspyder

Quote: 





punk_guy182 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 

 Ya think? Probably can't compare to the heavyweights in this category, but nice effort.


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## Charnwood

The other half of my C-1 Master arrived on Tuesday as promised and it's clear that they're going to need some time to burn in and settle down.  But even now, after only about 10 hours, when partnered with the C-3 and given the right recording, they can make things sound uncannily real. I think this partly down to the clarity of the C-1's and C-3, and partly due to the way the C-1 Master handles all the low detail the C-3 provides.


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## seaice

Any news here? Is there another owner of these babies? New experiences?
   
  I am looking for a good power amp (for Focal Electra 1007 Be at the moment) and a-g power amps are in the list of serious candidates.


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## tim3320070

Well, according to cyberspyder, they're crap as it's pretty clear he owns both the Krell and the AGD amps and done comparisons.
  Kidding aside, if you're not impressed with his amplification, I'll buy them from you.


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## seaice

For my wallet, the a-g crap is better than the krell crap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  just thinking (and still googling): C1 master could be excesively heavy weight for my setup. Maybe the C10-SE would be better companion for my beloved DAC1+Phoenix (and focal 1007be). It is a pity there is not much experience with audio-gd power amps.


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## tim3320070

I had the FBI-500 and loved it- Kingwa thought that the Phoenix preamp with the C10 would be a little better. I have the Phoenix with an Emotiva XPA-2 amp and feel the sound isn't as good as the FBI-500 was (it's good though). If you really want to save money, the UPA-2 amp from Emotiva is quite good but you wouldn't be using the full potential of the Phoenix. I plan on getting the C10 at some point.
  Good luck.


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## haloxt

I'm thinking about either phoenix+C10, or selling my phoenix and getting FBI-500. If the difference is only "a little" I lean towards selling the phoenix. First I need good speakers though , if anyone finds a way to make audio-gd ship speakers internationally, let me know, I been eying the SP-5 for a long time .
   
  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/SpeakersCH.htm


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## seaice

many thanks tim3320070!
   
  C10 looks really good for the Phoenix. Money is not the main concern here, I just feel the C1 is somewhat superfluous for my setup. I will give my decision some time to mature. thanks again!


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## tim3320070

Kingwa said once he felt the FBI was his "bang for the buck" to translate. I see an old email where his preference for monitor sound was Ref-1 to FBI via ACSS over Phoenix to C10 via XLR (since it doesn't use the ACSS connection). Something else to consider. If you're into the "warm" series, then the SA300 would be a good choice (this is probably what I'll do from the Phoenix).


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## haloxt

The C10 and SA300 got upgraded several weeks ago with a quite big price hike. I am tempted to hurry up and sell the phoenix and get the FBI-500, but still I need good speakers  anyone recommend used speakers under $1500? Or know what shipping method audio-gd might try to send speakers internationally?


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## haloxt

Hey I just read the SA300 page again, and something caught my eye. Its sound is described as "extremely clear sense of space". That's something I always attributed to ACSS, even though I haven't tried diamond differential. That may be the main thing I am looking for.
   
  Kingwa has described his diamond differential gear to add some  "orphean" distortion to pianos and violins, orphean meaning musical or enchanting. Maybe that's irrelevant since many of my recordings aren't so good quality anyways.


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## punk_guy182

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> Or know what shipping method audio-gd might try to send speakers internationally?


   
  Kingwa won't ship speakers out of China because no courrier will do it. There's a law against that and apparently the reason for it is economic. However, he can ship them to Hong Kong and from there it can be shipped to another country.


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## haloxt

Economic??? Hmm I sent Kingwa an email asking if he could ship PARTS of the speakers while I buy the rest of the parts myself hehe. But I'll also ask him about shipping to HK then to here, thanks!


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





haloxt said:


> The C10 and SA300 got upgraded several weeks ago with a quite big price hike. I am tempted to hurry up and sell the phoenix and get the FBI-500, but still I need good speakers  anyone recommend used speakers under $1500? Or know what shipping method audio-gd might try to send speakers internationally?


 

 these arent less than 1500, but they arent that much higher.
   
  http://www.salksound.com/songtower%20pricing.htm
   
  those are supposed to be absolutely amazing for the money.


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## haloxt

Looks like good speakers, I will take those into consideration.
   
  Kingwa said he can ship everything internationally except the speaker's drivers, and that he can't ship it to Hong Kong then to the USA. If I do the first option all I have to do is get the drivers and solder myself.
   
  Right now I am thinking about holding off on the speakers, maybe go for the full-size SP-3 speakers in the future, and figure out what to do with amp. If I sell my phoenix I would have more choices in amp or speakers , but I am really liking the sound of my headphones especially SA5000 I got a week ago which has amazing air .


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## tim3320070

Please get his speakers, I would love to get some impressions. A local, well known speaker guy here in Chicago has his own line- what do you think?
  http://www.vanlspeakerworks.com/quartet.html - these are pricey though and don't seem largely better than Kinga's offerings given the spec's.


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## haloxt

Those speakers look really nice  too bad they are above my budget.
   
  Kingwa's SP-3 and SP-9 use scanspeak 8545 and Eton 25SD1.
   
  The bookshelf SP-5 I want uses SEAS H1189 and SEAS H1216, which are drivers that cost ~3x less than in the above two speakers. I am still waiting for Kingwa to give me a price quote of the bookshelf speaker without drivers, then decide if I should get the bookshelf one or the SP-3. I prefer small speakers but if he says the SP-3 is much better sounding I may have to switch.


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## haloxt

I got quoted under $500 for the SP-5 speakers without drivers, acceptable price.... then $270 EMS shipping, but I guess that's about right considering the 25-26KG net weight. I asked if DHS is cheaper but still safe for speakers. If I can get over the price of the speakers, and considering I have to purchase 4 speaker drivers on top of that, I am going to try their 4S12 speaker cable too.


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## tim3320070

You can get the 4S12 pretty cheap from Markertek and terminate yourself for a lot less.
  Let us know about the speakers.


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## haloxt

I can find very little information about the 4S12, don't know how it compares to 4S11. The 4S11 is much more popular and easy/cheap to obtain. I may just go that way.
   
  EDIT:
   
  I think I am better off trying sonicwave 10 awg 8 ft speaker cables. Two pairs would cost me $88.31 shipped, quite cheaper than $150 for two pairs of 4S11 and I am very fond of the build quality of the sonicwave cables I have tried. And they come with all sorts of connectors .
   
  http://www.yourcablehookup.com/cables-sonicwave-speaker-interconnect-38069-p-3356.html


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## haloxt

Hmm after some research and thinking, I think I will have to pass on the SP-5 for now, and save up for either SP-3 or SP-9. Meanwhile I will use my honky klipsch rf 62 tower speakers and upgrade to fbi-500 integrated amp.


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## tim3320070

Badly off topic still, but.......can I suggest finding a pair of Mirage M5si, M3si, M1si- all can be had for as little as $300 used. These are warm sounding (no gritty highs with these) with serious deep bass. They need a bit of space and are big towers like not seen in modern speakers. I have the M7si (had M5si) and they still beat any headphone I have owned- bought them for $170 on Craigslist. I will tell you I had the 4S11 (big and heavy) and what I use now, Monoprice in-wall 14g cable. Sound the same to me and are rugged.


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## haloxt

Tim, I looked for mirage speakers on craigslist and decided to go for the 3 foot tall Mirage 595is instead of the M3/5/7si because I don't have any rooms that meet the big size requirement for them.
   
  I found a good deal on craigslist for a surround sound setup of 6 entry-level mirage speakers and an old yamaha receiver. I have only hooked up the main 595IS speakers, biwired to the old receiver and rca out of my dac9mk3. I followed the manual's placement instructions and use it in a decent sized bedroom, but the sound is not perfect, spacious but not so detailed. Can you tell me the sort of benefits I can expect from replacing the yamaha receiver with the fbi-500? I may also relegate this surround sound setup for tv and buy the m5is in the future when one shows up on the used market.
   
  EDIT:
   
  Ooo things have been warming up for a couple hours and it is sounding very ambient now . These stereo speakers are the perfect size for my room so I think I will keep these and upgrade to either one of audio-gd's power amps or the FBI-500.


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## tim3320070

I had some 595is and 895is- they are quite a bit different from the M series but not bad. I found them to be a bit brighter and a bit less refined (but they were much cheaper in the day). The room I have my M7si in is really small but still sound good. The FBI will sound so much better than the Yamaha.


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## seaice

I finally bought C-10. It was delivered today and immediately paired with my DAC REF 1 and Phoenix. It is very good even on first listen. After several hours of listening it is obvious that it plays much better than my old Yamaha (RX-797) even with the most ordinary XLR cables. The music is more sonically balanced, there is an added musicality and more sense of reality in the sound itself and also in the space presentation. 3D presentation of music is really amazing. I am now awating for better XLR cables and hoping for next improvements.


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## les_garten

Congratulations!
   
  I'm envious!
   
  I was looking over the Amps and Preamps this morning at A-GD like it was a Xmas Catalog...


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## seaice

But the Xmas is near, you should hurry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This thing is a real beast. If you think the RE1 of Phoenix is heavy, you must try this one! Heavy weight champ delivered in a massive box!


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## tim3320070

I keep wanting to get the C10 with my Phoenix (to replace my Emotiva amp). Make some Mogami XLR cables if you're at all handy- takes about 1/2 hour and costs about $25. No need for anything better than that IMO.


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## seaice

Thanks for the tip. I have already ordered OYAIDE PA-02 with Neutrics. I may also try some silver wires but I hope the Oyaides will be enough.
   
  Btw, there is one thing I miss on the Phoenix now - ACSS out.


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## tim3320070

I wish I had that too but Kingwa says it's impossible without some reworking. But, ACSS works through the XLR outputs as well, that's why I want the C10 as the XLR out from Phoenix and XLR input on C10 still use the ACSS modules on both ends.


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