# Feliks Audio Echo (new budget OTL amp)



## ostewart

Looks like Feliks Audio haven't forgotten about those on a tighter budget.

http://www.feliksaudio.pl/

*Launching echo*
*Available for Preorder*
Many of you asked for a more affordable headphone amplifier. One that would still deliver stunning sound fidelity and don't compromise build quality. Please welcome echo - a "back to basics" OTL with enough juice to drive mid to high impedance headphones. We even given it a fully protected pre-amp functionality. All of that in a good looking chassis (real wood finish!) and supported by unmatched Feliks Audio attention to detail, customer service and reliability. Please contact us to pre-order at introductory price of only 369 € (incl. VAT)!


Some technical specification:


Power tubes 6N6P x 2, driver tubes 6N1P x 2
RCA audio input, RCA audio output (pre-amp)
Frequency response: 15 Hz - 45 Khz +/- 3 dB
Power output: 350mW
THD: 0.4 % (300 ohm, 20 mW)
Optimal headphones impedance: 100 - 600 ohm


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## canthearyou

That's pretty damn cool!


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## ostewart

Looks like a slimmed down Espressivo. From my experience with Feliks Audio, it's going to be excellent for the price.


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## hypnos1 (Feb 28, 2018)

This does indeed look another very good value-for-money headphone amp from Feliks-Audio, and well-constructed.

This will take their range from budget to (possibly) forthcoming top-of-the-range 2A3 based hp and speaker amp - quite a feat for a relatively small, family run business!

Good luck, F-A!


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## milkypete

I was hoping to see more impressions of the Echo, but it doesn't seem too popular, yet.  I'd been leaning towards a Valhalla 2 as my first tube amp, but then fell in love with the Euforia at CanJam.  Since the Valhalla and the Echo come stock with the same tubes, I'm now leaning towards Feliks, but it would be really nice to see some reviews, somewhere.


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## Oscar-HiFi

milkypete said:


> I was hoping to see more impressions of the Echo, but it doesn't seem too popular, yet.  I'd been leaning towards a Valhalla 2 as my first tube amp, but then fell in love with the Euforia at CanJam.  Since the Valhalla and the Echo come stock with the same tubes, I'm now leaning towards Feliks, but it would be really nice to see some reviews, somewhere.



Only reviews I've found are:

https://headfonics.com/2018/08/feliks-audio-echo-review/

https://medium.com/@walloffire/review-feliks-audio-echo-headphone-amplifier-97d303bd7224


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## milkypete

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Only reviews I've found are:
> 
> https://headfonics.com/2018/08/feliks-audio-echo-review/
> 
> https://medium.com/@walloffire/review-feliks-audio-echo-headphone-amplifier-97d303bd7224



Also, this one is on youtube:


And Feliks also provides a link to (although, it needs to be translated from German):
https://musicalhead.de/2018/04/25/test-feliks-audio-echo/


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## KyleCrane

Hi
I just got my Echo. Too early for a review. Still want to share some first impressions with you. First thing to say is, that ordering, payment and shipping was some of the best I experienced so far in my long history of online-shopping of HiFi. Lukasz responded very fast and kind to my questions and after less than a week (weekend included) from the 1st contact, the amp was already delivered in a secure packed double box. Perfect. Second, this thing just looks fantastic. Very solid build quality and the wood on the side matches perfectly with the black metal chassis. So far, flawless quality.  

As I said, I can't comment on the sound quality too much yet. All I can say is, that before the Echo I was using a Schiit Magni 3, which imho is a great little amp for a very reasonable price. Before Shiit I was using an integrated and before that I even owned a Woo Audio WA6SE which I had to sell. That was long ago so no detailed comparisons with Woo I could do anymore. The thing with Magni was, that to my ears (or for my headphones), the sound was kind of fatiguing after a certain time. This isn't necessarily a problem of the Magni, not at all. I loved that amp and might keep it. This wasn't a big deal, as I don't usually spend that much time listening through headphones. But comparing the Magni and Echo is apples and oranges anyway, as this one costs 4 or 5 times as much. So back to the Echo. I only had time for 2 albums so far. To me, right out of the box, this appears to sound smoother and more balanced. But at the same time more than enough punchy for my taste. Everything seems to be in the place it has to be. Until now I didn't notice any noise. Not considering myself an audiophile by any means, I can't make reliable reviews with terms you might expect on this board. Especially because english is not my mother tongue. But to make a long story short, my first impressions make me feel, that the sound coming out of the echo could be that well balanced music I was missing since the days of the Woo. If my 1st impressions will be verified after the burn in (not many doubts on this one), and considering the fair price tag, the looks and build quality and last but not least the super service of this manufacturer, this could be a keeper for a long time. 

Only problem ist, that the Echo makes me want to buy new headphones now...

cheers


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## ostewart

KyleCrane said:


> Hi
> I just got my Echo. Too early for a review. Still want to share some first impressions with you. First thing to say is, that ordering, payment and shipping was some of the best I experienced so far in my long history of online-shopping of HiFi. Lukasz responded very fast and kind to my questions and after less than a week (weekend included) from the 1st contact, the amp was already delivered in a secure packed double box. Perfect. Second, this thing just looks fantastic. Very solid build quality and the wood on the side matches perfectly with the black metal chassis. So far, flawless quality.
> 
> As I said, I can't comment on the sound quality too much yet. All I can say is, that before the Echo I was using a Schiit Magni 3, which imho is a great little amp for a very reasonable price. Before Shiit I was using an integrated and before that I even owned a Woo Audio WA6SE which I had to sell. That was long ago so no detailed comparisons with Woo I could do anymore. The thing with Magni was, that to my ears (or for my headphones), the sound was kind of fatiguing after a certain time. This isn't necessarily a problem of the Magni, not at all. I loved that amp and might keep it. This wasn't a big deal, as I don't usually spend that much time listening through headphones. But comparing the Magni and Echo is apples and oranges anyway, as this one costs 4 or 5 times as much. So back to the Echo. I only had time for 2 albums so far. To me, right out of the box, this appears to sound smoother and more balanced. But at the same time more than enough punchy for my taste. Everything seems to be in the place it has to be. Until now I didn't notice any noise. Not considering myself an audiophile by any means, I can't make reliable reviews with terms you might expect on this board. Especially because english is not my mother tongue. But to make a long story short, my first impressions make me feel, that the sound coming out of the echo could be that well balanced music I was missing since the days of the Woo. If my 1st impressions will be verified after the burn in (not many doubts on this one), and considering the fair price tag, the looks and build quality and last but not least the super service of this manufacturer, this could be a keeper for a long time.
> ...



Excellent first impressions, what headphones are you using with it?

Yes Feliks Audio have excellent service and Lukasz is a great guy!


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## KyleCrane

I've been using a Beyer dt880 for about 10 years very happily. But I couldn't resist and bought the Beyer dt1990pro just today. Enough expenses for a while....


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## ostewart

KyleCrane said:


> I've been using a Beyer dt880 for about 10 years very happily. But I couldn't resist and bought the Beyer dt1990pro just today. Enough expenses for a while....



Excellent choice of cans!


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## tracyca

Yes, dt1990 pros sound wonderful from tubes! Great pairing with Feliks Audio amps.


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## Dobrescu George

I have been listening to Feliks Audio Echo for a little while now, and man, I am in love with its musicality  

Works amazingly well with both Ultrasone Signature DXP and Audeze LCD-MX4  






 .


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## ostewart

Dobrescu George said:


> I have been listening to Feliks Audio Echo for a little while now, and man, I am in love with its musicality
> 
> Works amazingly well with both Ultrasone Signature DXP and Audeze LCD-MX4



Planars like lots of current, not what the Echo can do, even though it might sound ok it's not ideal for the Audeze. Also the high output impedance probably isn't a good match for your Signature DXP. You really need to try it with some high impedance dynamics for your review if possible 

Yes my Espressivo MKII sounds ok with my HE-500's but it doesn't really drive them properly, however when driving my GMP400's it's a match made in heaven.


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## Dobrescu George

ostewart said:


> Planars like lots of current, not what the Echo can do, even though it might sound ok it's not ideal for the Audeze. Also the high output impedance probably isn't a good match for your Signature DXP. You really need to try it with some high impedance dynamics for your review if possible
> 
> Yes my Espressivo MKII sounds ok with my HE-500's but it doesn't really drive them properly, however when driving my GMP400's it's a match made in heaven.



Oh, Beyerdynamic Amiron should make a sweet pairing with it as well then  

You know, I kinda like how Audeze and Signature DXP sound with it, although now that you mention it, I was thinking what it pairs best with. 

Do you think it would be worth to attach it to a speaker setup as a pre-amp to give them a little more tube in their sound?


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## ostewart

Dobrescu George said:


> Oh, Beyerdynamic Amiron should make a sweet pairing with it as well then
> 
> You know, I kinda like how Audeze and Signature DXP sound with it, although now that you mention it, I was thinking what it pairs best with.
> 
> Do you think it would be worth to attach it to a speaker setup as a pre-amp to give them a little more tube in their sound?



Amiron are the perfect match, loved them with my Expressivo.

You can try it as a pre-amp, I've used mine like that before.


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## Jefedemuchanina

Hows the sound on this with stock tubes? I like tubes that relax highs some and give bottom a little more punch but i just bought a wa3 and now im getting tubes for it but id really like to give this a try since its hand crafted and seems quality but importing and tube rolling im looking at another $600+ is it worth it?


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## Dobrescu George

Jefedemuchanina said:


> Hows the sound on this with stock tubes? I like tubes that relax highs some and give bottom a little more punch but i just bought a wa3 and now im getting tubes for it but id really like to give this a try since its hand crafted and seems quality but importing and tube rolling im looking at another $600+ is it worth it?



I think it is absolutely worth the asking price, but I do not think it will smooth out the treble, the stock tubes are quite linear in my experience, they don't really cut the treble, they keep some heathy sparkle, but they do give the low end some magic, I really like their presentation on an overall level. 

Have not tried Tube rolling yet


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## KyleCrane

Can't comment on tube rolling neither. Well, I had to change a faulty tube after only a few hours, but that happens. No big deal. To be honest, I didn't find that many options for the stock tubes that seemed worth it, so I didn't look any further. Even if the manual says what other type of tubes can be used, I feel somehow safer sticking to the 6n1p and 6n6p, which as I said, don't seem to offer a wide range of options. But I could be wrong and suggestions would be appreciated.

Still loving this amp a lot! But I doubt that I would spend another 600, if I just bought the WA3 (I used to own the WA6SE). Unless you want to compare the amps or you need a 2nd amp anyway or for some other reason. If it were me and cash wouldn't be an issue, I'd rather upgrade to a bigger one from one of these 2 companies instead of 2 entry level ones. Honestly, for what Feliks offers in terms of look, build quality, price, SQ and service, today, I would choose Feliks again anytime. Not that Woo wasn't good, I loved it, but the complete package of Feliks fits my needs more. And living in europe makes it kinda complicated to order from the US anyway.

Doesn't really answer your question, I know...but yes, the Echo is absolutely worth the price imho.


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## Jefedemuchanina

KyleCrane said:


> Can't comment on tube rolling neither. Well, I had to change a faulty tube after only a few hours, but that happens. No big deal. To be honest, I didn't find that many options for the stock tubes that seemed worth it, so I didn't look any further. Even if the manual says what other type of tubes can be used, I feel somehow safer sticking to the 6n1p and 6n6p, which as I said, don't seem to offer a wide range of options. But I could be wrong and suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Still loving this amp a lot! But I doubt that I would spend another 600, if I just bought the WA3 (I used to own the WA6SE). Unless you want to compare the amps or you need a 2nd amp anyway or for some other reason. If it were me and cash wouldn't be an issue, I'd rather upgrade to a bigger one from one of these 2 companies instead of 2 entry level ones. Honestly, for what Feliks offers in terms of look, build quality, price, SQ and service, today, I would choose Feliks again anytime. Not that Woo wasn't good, I loved it, but the complete package of Feliks fits my needs more. And living in europe makes it kinda complicated to order from the US anyway.
> 
> Doesn't really answer your question, I know...but yes, the Echo is absolutely worth the price imho.


Thanks i actually ended up buying the espressivo mk 2 and im gonna roll some tubes in it i suppose but id consider $600 tube amps heading into entry mid range not that it matter something like the valhalla and darkvoice sound totally different at only $300 same with little dot and considering 99% of what i do is gaming this $1000 will be my end game if i like the sound. Just couldnt help it the build quality and all impressed me and i love tube sound it makes the 600’s sound great for gaming ill see how the 660’s sound with them


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## Dobrescu George

Jefedemuchanina said:


> Thanks i actually ended up buying the espressivo mk 2 and im gonna roll some tubes in it i suppose but id consider $600 tube amps heading into entry mid range not that it matter something like the valhalla and darkvoice sound totally different at only $300 same with little dot and considering 99% of what i do is gaming this $1000 will be my end game if i like the sound. Just couldnt help it the build quality and all impressed me and i love tube sound it makes the 600’s sound great for gaming ill see how the 660’s sound with them



I think you made a great choice with espressive MK2 as well


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## Jefedemuchanina

Dobrescu George said:


> I think you made a great choice with espressive MK2 as well


Thanks most excited ive been to get an amp in a long time everyone that has a felik seems to love it gonna take forever to get here from poland but leaves me plenty of time to pick up various tubes. I will say i emailed their customer support with some questions they got back to me quickly and very helpful so if the amp sounds good ill reccomend them highly


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## Dobrescu George

Jefedemuchanina said:


> Thanks most excited ive been to get an amp in a long time everyone that has a felik seems to love it gonna take forever to get here from poland but leaves me plenty of time to pick up various tubes. I will say i emailed their customer support with some questions they got back to me quickly and very helpful so if the amp sounds good ill reccomend them highly



Oh yes, Feliks Audio is a sweet company, and I think you'll have a great time first time seeing it in person  

I was quite amazed by the level of detail in the work when seeing the Echo unit, how much care was taken for every component, and you know, Echo is a 600 USD AMP, basically, it isn't high end, but it sure feels incredibly well made, the components are good quality inside, the tubes are good quality Russian Tubes, and evberything seems to be working really well  

Please let us know how you feel with Esspresivo MK2 when you get it, really curious to hear more!~


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## KyleCrane

Well, congrats for that buy! By entry level I meant for the products of those 2 companies, not in general. I'm a gamer myself, but 1K for a gaming amp? Wow! But hey, why not?  

Don't worry, Feliks shipped mine extremely fast! It took less than a week from my first email (questions which he answered fast and kind) until I got my Echo. Weekend included! So the only delays you might encounter will be your customs.


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## Dobrescu George

KyleCrane said:


> Well, congrats for that buy! By entry level I meant for the products of those 2 companies, not in general. I'm a gamer myself, but 1K for a gaming amp? Wow! But hey, why not?
> 
> Don't worry, Feliks shipped mine extremely fast! It took less than a week from my first email (questions which he answered fast and kind) until I got my Echo. Weekend included! So the only delays you might encounter will be your customs.



I was actually amazed as well by how Echo got to me, but then again, I am in Romania, which is rather close to Poland


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## Jefedemuchanina (Oct 23, 2018)

Haha like i said man i love the tube sound im one of the weirdos they made the 600’s for i absolutely love the neutrality bass is there clean but not overbearing and the 600’s seem to scale so well with high end tube amps. I play some shooters but mostly rpg’s and as you know they usually have beautiful music and sounds ever since i heard that on tubes its been down the rabbit hole i went. Thanks for all your help guys youve got me super stoked for this amp i got the walnut finish ill be sure to post lots of pretty pics and try to update as i try different tubes how they sound


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## slex

ECHO & ELEX.....  Yeah. (E&E) both are European handmade .

Anyone have this setup? GO or NO go?


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## Dobrescu George

slex said:


> ECHO & ELEX.....  Yeah. (E&E) both are European handmade .
> 
> Anyone have this setup? GO or NO go?



Echo absolutely go, Elex, I never heard them, can recommend Amiron which works really well with Echo


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## slex

Dobrescu George said:


> Echo absolutely go, Elex, I never heard them, can recommend Amiron which works really well with Echo



Yes Yes. I like the 250 Ohm on the Amiron. Most befitting for ECHO. Will test drive them at local cafe.


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## cfranchi

How the Echo would compare vs the Cayin HA-1A mk2 (a very good tune amp for the price range) ?


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## Dobrescu George

Is there a product page for Feliks Echo?


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## Dobrescu George

I went ahead and created an item entry for Feliks Echo, so that we may share our reviews about it 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/feliks-echo-otl-tube-headphone-amp.23487/

Also, just shared my review as well 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/feliks-echo-otl-tube-headphone-amp.23487/reviews#review-21312


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## cfranchi (Jan 3, 2019)

Great review George, as usual

I have decided to order this amp instead of the Cayin HA-1A mk2, less expensive and more beautiful, hope it will fit well with my Kennerton Vali (Beyer T1.2 is on my radar)


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## Dobrescu George

cfranchi said:


> Great review George, as usual
> 
> I have decided to order this amp instead if the Cayin HA-1A mk2, less expensive and beautiful, hope it will fit well with my Kennerton Vali (Beyer T1.2 is on my radar)



Thank you for your kind words! 

I think you'll be really happy with it. I couldn't find any complaint, and I have been testing it for a few weeks, really solid piece of tech, would satisfy both someone young and wild, and also a more seasoned listener. 

It should pair really well with Beyerdynamic Headphones as well, a streak of well paired choices


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## KyleCrane

I can confirm, that the Echo pairs well with Beyers. I have the 1990Pros and to my ears this is a winning team.

Awesome review George! I agree with all you're saying. This amp sounds good just by looking at it...  Especially I once again want to point out the fantastic service by Feliks Audio. I have ordered HiFi gear from all over the world im my years. This was probably the quickest and most uncomplicated order ever. Lukasz is extremely helpful and kind, before and after the purchase. 

If I was in the market for a headphone amp right now, I would be seriously tempted by the espressivo just because of the mulitple inputs. But then again, considering the price tag of the echo, I'm totally fine with it.


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## Dobrescu George

KyleCrane said:


> I can confirm, that the Echo pairs well with Beyers. I have the 1990Pros and to my ears this is a winning team.
> 
> Awesome review George! I agree with all you're saying. This amp sounds good just by looking at it...  Especially I once again want to point out the fantastic service by Feliks Audio. I have ordered HiFi gear from all over the world im my years. This was probably the quickest and most uncomplicated order ever. Lukasz is extremely helpful and kind, before and after the purchase.
> 
> If I was in the market for a headphone amp right now, I would be seriously tempted by the espressivo just because of the mulitple inputs. But then again, considering the price tag of the echo, I'm totally fine with it.



Thank you for your kind words, and I hope more people will get to experience the awesomeness of Feliks Audio :


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## cfranchi

I have just ordered the Echo at the promotional price of 399 EUR, I have debated myself with a demo unit of Euforia : Feliks Audio is selling one at 30% discount vs retail price (still with 3 years waranty).

Can’t wait to try the synergy with my Kennerton Vali, if I enjoy enough I’ll add a Beyerdynamic T1.2 to my set of cans!

Feliks Audio recommends a 2V input signal, so for my Mojo it implies 4 clicks down from line out mode (the Mojo then reach 1.9V).


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## tracyca

Mojo sounds great with the expressivo mk2 so it should sound great with the echo.


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## Dobrescu George

cfranchi said:


> I have just ordered the Echo at the promotional price of 399 EUR, I have debated myself with a demo unit of Euforia : Feliks Audio is selling one at 30% discount vs retail price (still with 3 years waranty).
> 
> Can’t wait to try the synergy with my Kennerton Vali, if I enjoy enough I’ll add a Beyerdynamic T1.2 to my set of cans!
> 
> Feliks Audio recommends a 2V input signal, so for my Mojo it implies 4 clicks down from line out mode (the Mojo then reach 1.9V).



To my ears, Mojo sounds great with Echo  

I have a Mojo, and have used both it, and iFi xDSD to drive Echo, and I was quite pleased with the results with both setups, no issue as far as I can tell


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## Leonarfd

Anyone here who can compare it with the Darkvoice 336SE?
Have been on the edge for getting a tube amp for a while, and this looks like  a good contender. And imo it looks much better than the darkvoice.


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## Dobrescu George

Leonarfd said:


> Anyone here who can compare it with the Darkvoice 336SE?
> Have been on the edge for getting a tube amp for a while, and this looks like  a good contender. And imo it looks much better than the darkvoice.



Sadly, I can't help with that directly, but it does look better aesthetically, and it has more tubes, and from what I can tell, also a larger power delivery, which, for a design like this, may mean that Darkvoice won't have the same no-background-noise that Echo has


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## cfranchi (Jan 3, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> Sadly, I can't help with that directly, but it does look better aesthetically, and it has more tubes, and from what I can tell, also a larger power delivery, which, for a design like this, may mean that Darkvoice won't have the same no-background-noise that Echo has



I agree with George, the Darkvoice seems far lower than the Echo in term of build and design.

Also from all the reviews I have read, the Echo seems a better sounding amp, but more expensive also...


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## Leonarfd

The other threads are much more active than this, I guess not many yet have heard the Echo or own it.
Still waiting for mine and it will get here in start of february, they had quite many orders before the price change.

Anyone tried any tube rolling so far? Or are the stock ones great?


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## Dobrescu George

Leonarfd said:


> The other threads are much more active than this, I guess not many yet have heard the Echo or own it.
> Still waiting for mine and it will get here in start of february, they had quite many orders before the price change.
> 
> Anyone tried any tube rolling so far? Or are the stock ones great?



The stock tubes are soo right taht you don't feel the need to try rolling them 

As for the reason this one thread isn't quite as active as others, many many people I know are currently waiting on their unit, I'm sure this thread will pick up some activity once they all get their unit and experience it, and be able to report back


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## Jprod

hello all. Is this amp synergistic with either the audeze lcd2 or the focal clear?Thanks


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## Dobrescu George

Jprod said:


> hello all. Is this amp synergistic with either the audeze lcd2 or the focal clear?Thanks



Hi there  

I would recommend it more for something like Sennheiser HD600 / Senn HD800 / Beyerdynamic Amiron / Beyerdynamic T1 / anything with a high impedance


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## Jprod

Thank you kind sir!


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## Wes S (Feb 1, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> Oh, Beyerdynamic Amiron should make a sweet pairing with it as well then
> 
> You know, I kinda like how Audeze and Signature DXP sound with it, although now that you mention it, I was thinking what it pairs best with.
> 
> Do you think it would be worth to attach it to a speaker setup as a pre-amp to give them a little more tube in their sound?


Really interested to hear your thoughts, with a high impedance can.  I am interested in this amp, for my ZMF Aeolus, and DT1770.


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## Dobrescu George

Wes S said:


> Really interested to hear your thoughts, with a high impedance can.  I am interested in this amp, for my ZMF Aeolus, and DT1770.



Feliks Echo should sound sublime with those two  

This is what it was made for, high-impedance cans that do not require a lot of power, but which require good voltage


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## Ultrainferno

A new week means a new giveaway and this week we have the award winning Feliks Audio Echo tube amplifier.
https://www.headfonia.com/giveaway-25-feliks-audio-echo/

Good luck!


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## Dobrescu George

Ultrainferno said:


> A new week means a new giveaway and this week we have the award winning Feliks Audio Echo tube amplifier.
> https://www.headfonia.com/giveaway-25-feliks-audio-echo/
> 
> Good luck!



Ey, you'll make someone really happy, this is one heck of an OTL AMP!


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## Leonarfd

New toy in house, its very clean sounding. Only listened to some hybrid tube amps before, and to a darkvoice with stock tubes. This is clearly a higher level from memory.
When swapping back and forth from a Questyle CMA400i I notice that the music is smoother sounding while not loosing details. The instruction says it should need 30-50 hours of burn in for the tubes to be optimal, not sure what can change as it sounds really good after 5 hours now.


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## Dobrescu George

Leonarfd said:


> New toy in house, its very clean sounding. Only listened to some hybrid tube amps before, and to a darkvoice with stock tubes. This is clearly a higher level from memory.
> When swapping back and forth from a Questyle CMA400i I notice that the music is smoother sounding while not loosing details. The instruction says it should need 30-50 hours of burn in for the tubes to be optimal, not sure what can change as it sounds really good after 5 hours now.



Really happy you're having so much fun! 

I had a Darkvoice Tube AMP in my hands, and I agree, Echo is better on an overall level, although, from memory, Darkvoice is also quite a bit les expensive, half the price or so, so Feliks Echo being much better was expected


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## Leonarfd (Mar 15, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> Really happy you're having so much fun!
> 
> I had a Darkvoice Tube AMP in my hands, and I agree, Echo is better on an overall level, although, from memory, Darkvoice is also quite a bit les expensive, half the price or so, so Feliks Echo being much better was expected


I got mine without having to pay customs, so I cant complain. Ended with the same price as an imported darkvoice since I bought the Echo before xmas.
Had some more days with it now, had a problem with ground loop in my system so I had some noise. Specially while doing GPU heavy work on the PC, solved it with iFi Audio iDefender 3.0. Now its completely silent under 12 on the knob, and I already have to turn down my audio playes on the PC to 50%. Cant get above 10 on the dial, even with classical music

Cant recommend this amp enough, its bloody brilliant. Makes the biggest difference for me with my DT880 600ohm and DT1990, while also my LCD2 gets more smooth sounding.

One dangerous thing is that since the sound gets more smooth sounding, I have a tendency to turn up  the volume


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## Dobrescu George

Leonarfd said:


> I got mine without having to pay customs, so I cant complain. Ended with the same price as an imported darkvoice since I bought the Echo before xmas.
> Had some more days with it now, had a problem with ground loop in my system so I had some noise. Specially while doing GPU heavy work on the PC, solved it with iFi Audio iDefender 3.0. Now its completely silent under 12 on the knob, and I already have to turn down my audio playes on the PC to 50%. Cant get above 10 on the dial, even with classical music
> 
> Cant recommend this amp enough, its bloody brilliant. Makes the biggest difference for me with my DT880 600ohm and DT1990, while also my LCD2 gets more smooth sounding.
> ...



Bring that volume up then!! 

I had this happening to me, it isn't the smoothness, it is the clarity and detail, the lower the distortions, the louder you tend to go, I had this tendency as well when I first heard it, as well as some other products that are very clear and detailed. 

Feliks Echo surely is suuuper awesome!


----------



## Yoram Diamand

Dobrescu George said:


> Bring that volume up then!!
> 
> I had this happening to me, it isn't the smoothness, it is the clarity and detail, the lower the distortions, the louder you tend to go, I had this tendency as well when I first heard it, as well as some other products that are very clear and detailed.
> 
> Feliks Echo surely is suuuper awesome!


Hi since it has the same tubes I guess it is interesting to compare it to the Schiit Valhall 2 which is less expensive. People like the Valhalla 2 as an inexpensive way to enjoy the T1s. Is there a benefit of the Echo extra money?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Yoram Diamand said:


> Hi since it has the same tubes I guess it is interesting to compare it to the Schiit Valhall 2 which is less expensive. People like the Valhalla 2 as an inexpensive way to enjoy the T1s. Is there a benefit of the Echo extra money?



Echo has much better power delivery, much better control, and lower noise, at least checking other reviews, and checking the design. 

It is inherent to Feliks Echo's design for it to be cleaner and have less noise, since it has a much larger and stronger power delivery, just look at the design, Valhalla 2 has the power stage very undersized. I'm always happy to see people making affordable devices, but with Feliks, they really design things to last and make it well, and still very affordable for what you're getting. Echo is a heavy device, just the build costs a LOT, where Valhalla is a micro-sized thingy that just happens to use the same tubes, pretty much almost like two AMP designs that use the same OP-AMPs. The capacitor quality is very important, and Feliks doesn't screw around when it comes to their caps 

On a not so related note, everyone I know has been quite disappointed with Schiit items, at least in Romania, and in my own tests, all of them performed sub-par. I heard both their really entry-level stuff, and some high-end and not I'd go with Mytek, Feliks and other companies any day of the week.


----------



## Jprod

How about comparing the feliks va some of the woo audio offerings ( wa7, wa6 , wa6 Se , or wa2) ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Jprod said:


> How about comparing the feliks va some of the woo audio offerings ( wa7, wa6 , wa6 Se , or wa2) ?



Woo Audio , for some reason, has a really dark and lush sound that lacks treble sparkle. Which seems to be their house signature, because now I have a few Tube devices, and that kind of sound is only characteristic to Woo Audio, not to all Tube AMPs (?) 

I don't have the entry-level Woo stuff to compare, only some of the more expensive ones, and even there, if driving HD800 or HD600, Feliks Echo tends to be cleaner and more dynamic overall, Woo Audio high-end AMPs are the choice if you really want a dark and lush experience that is smooth in the treble.


----------



## Jprod (Mar 16, 2019)

Thanks for the quick response.  Is there a  section on your web page comparing your own amps side by side? I couldn’t find it


Also, for USA customers is upscale our only option ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Jprod said:


> Thanks for the quick response.  Is there a  section on your web page comparing your own amps side by side? I couldn’t find it
> 
> Also, for USA customers is upscale our only option ?



I am from Audiophile-Heaven, a reviews site, I don't represent Feliks, so I don't know the answer to either of those questions


----------



## Jprod

Sorry - my bad


----------



## Dobrescu George

Jprod said:


> Sorry - my bad



No worries!  

They are really friendly and can answer your questions, just shoot them an email at info@feliksaudio.pl

Or give it a shot here: http://feliksaudio.pl/en/contact.php


----------



## willham

Just got the Echo, a few quick impressions:

- I love the build quality. The amp is massive and does not budge, which means when I accidentally yank my cable, the jack pops out instead of dragging the whole rig with it. Also, I love how the volume knob is massive and oh so smooooooth.

- this sounds very similar to a solid state, I've used my phone mic to level match the Objective 2 and Echo to compare them, and they sound almost identical (in terms of frequency response). This is both good and bad because this means this amp doesn't soften the bass or roll off treble like tubes with poorer quality tube amps, but the lack of coloration also means that it's pretty boring in terms of it being an upgrade.

- outside of frequency response, the Echo does do a few things pretty well, most noticeably better separation and smoother bass. 

I wanna get started on tube rolling asap. Does anyone have any recommendations and/or links to websites where I can get some in North America?


----------



## Wes S (Apr 9, 2019)

willham said:


> Just got the Echo, a few quick impressions:
> 
> - I love the build quality. The amp is massive and does not budge, which means when I accidentally yank my cable, the jack pops out instead of dragging the whole rig with it. Also, I love how the volume knob is massive and oh so smooooooth.
> 
> ...


Tube World Express, and Upscale Audio, are my go to places to buy tubes in the U.S.  Both of these sellers actually listen to the tubes during testing, for noise and microphonics.  They are more expensive, but you know you are getting a good tube.  Ebay is a crap shoot, and should be the last place you look for tubes, until you learn how to find the good ones and good sellers.

A good first NOS tube, is the Amperex 7308 gold pin USA.  This tube is even top to bottom, and is a good place to start.


----------



## Focux

just placed an order for mine


----------



## lentoviolento

Focux said:


> just placed an order for mine



i know it's been a while.. but do you like it? expecially paired with aeolus?


----------



## Focux

lentoviolento said:


> i know it's been a while.. but do you like it? expecially paired with aeolus?



Absolutely, it also made my 650 (compared to the Atom)


----------



## crabdog

This is a gorgeous looking and sounding amp. It works really well with planars.


----------



## lentoviolento

crabdog said:


> This is a gorgeous looking and sounding amp. It works really well with planars.



unfortunatly with empyrean i get distortion when i raise the volume a bit... but it makes my zmf sings like a bird during spring time


----------



## crabdog

lentoviolento said:


> unfortunatly with empyrean i get distortion when i raise the volume a bit... but it makes my zmf sings like a bird during spring time


Could it be an issue with your Empyrean? Does your DAC have a fixed or variable output? My unit sounds very clean with everything I tested so far.


----------



## lugnut

For those who own or spent some time with this amp, what have you compared it with ? Do you think it is worth the price ? I guess that is not a good question. Are you happy with it, may be more in line ? I have seen it online for close to $700 us dollars, so I was wondering as that is starting to reach my budget. Any thoughts or opinions would be welcome, thanks !


----------



## lentoviolento

lugnut said:


> For those who own or spent some time with this amp, what have you compared it with ? Do you think it is worth the price ? I guess that is not a good question. Are you happy with it, may be more in line ? I have seen it online for close to $700 us dollars, so I was wondering as that is starting to reach my budget. Any thoughts or opinions would be welcome, thanks !



It absolutely worth the money if you use it with hi impedance hps. I compared it with his older brother epsressivo mk2, and many others amps like woo audio wa22, schiit stuff etc


----------



## lentoviolento

crabdog said:


> Could it be an issue with your Empyrean? Does your DAC have a fixed or variable output? My unit sounds very clean with everything I tested so far.



Fixed ar 2,1. 
Simply the meze is 32ohm, it doesn't have the juice to get some punch. With zmf is the best you can get with the money


----------



## bartlett

Anybody know how this compares with the original Espressivo?


----------



## lentoviolento

bartlett said:


> Anybody know how this compares with the original Espressivo?



don't know about the original espressivo but it sounds equal to espressivo mk2. cheers


----------



## Kevin Lee

I order two Echo amp this month, and Feliks reply will sent them six week after order confirm.


----------



## crabdog

Kevin Lee said:


> I order two Echo amp this month, and Feliks reply will sent them six week after order confirm.


Congrats. They are worth the wait!


----------



## Halam

Hi guys, I would like to share my impressions and some pictures of Feliks Audio Echo, which I own for a while already. I am a little bit surprised there is not much information on this forum about this amplifier, though it deserves attention and the choice of good entry-level OTL tube amps in this price range is very limited. I didn't have many amplifiers before to make extended comparisons, but I prefer this amp to my Cavalli Liquid Carbon.
       So a few words about amp itself. It is built like a tank and looks very nice with its matte black case and oak side plates. I felt that this amp was made with attention to detail. Built quality is excellent and it will not take too much place on the table. I am not very experienced in describing the sound, but it has excellent clarity and resolution. I would say it sounds very accurate, natural and rather neutral. It's not overly warm or analytical, and not too bright or dark. I think its main pros are transparency and accuracy. The soundstage is a little larger than the medium. 
      Stock tubes Voshod 6N1P-EV were a little bright and lack of bass for my taste, but you can always change the sound with 6922 tubes (or 5670 with adapters). I think Echo responses to the tube change quite well (and this is another interesting game). I use at the moment Russian Reflector 6N23P-EV, probably not the best 6N23P tube but it has good bass and richness in the sound.
       Lukasz from Feliks Audio was very helpful and responsive as well. He replied to all my questions and assisted with smooth delivery. 
Thank you Feliks Audio for good affordable OTL tube amplifier.

P.S. Just one question to experienced tube rollers, does power tubes have any influence on the sound and does it make sense to replace power tubes with better ones?


----------



## ostewart

Halam said:


> Hi guys, I would like to share my impressions and some pictures of Feliks Audio Echo, which I own for a while already. I am a little bit surprised there is not much information on this forum about this amplifier, though it deserves attention and the choice of good entry-level OTL tube amps in this price range is very limited. I didn't have many amplifiers before to make extended comparisons, but I prefer this amp to my Cavalli Liquid Carbon.
> So a few words about amp itself. It is built like a tank and looks very nice with its matte black case and oak side plates. I felt that this amp was made with attention to detail. Built quality is excellent and it will not take too much place on the table. I am not very experienced in describing the sound, but it has excellent clarity and resolution. I would say it sounds very accurate, natural and rather neutral. It's not overly warm or analytical, and not too bright or dark. I think its main pros are transparency and accuracy. The soundstage is a little larger than the medium.
> Stock tubes Voshod 6N1P-EV were a little bright and lack of bass for my taste, but you can always change the sound with 6922 tubes (or 5670 with adapters). I think Echo responses to the tube change quite well (and this is another interesting game). I use at the moment Russian Reflector 6N23P-EV, probably not the best 6N23P tube but it has good bass and richness in the sound.
> Lukasz from Feliks Audio was very helpful and responsive as well. He replied to all my questions and assisted with smooth delivery.
> ...



From my experiences with the Espressivo and Espressivo MKII the power tubes don't make a huge difference, only a small change. Definitely focus on the driver tubes first.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fel...-mkii-otl-tube-amp-impressions-thread.850052/


----------



## crabdog

Halam said:


> Hi guys, I would like to share my impressions and some pictures of Feliks Audio Echo, which I own for a while already. I am a little bit surprised there is not much information on this forum about this amplifier, though it deserves attention and the choice of good entry-level OTL tube amps in this price range is very limited. I didn't have many amplifiers before to make extended comparisons, but I prefer this amp to my Cavalli Liquid Carbon.
> So a few words about amp itself. It is built like a tank and looks very nice with its matte black case and oak side plates. I felt that this amp was made with attention to detail. Built quality is excellent and it will not take too much place on the table. I am not very experienced in describing the sound, but it has excellent clarity and resolution. I would say it sounds very accurate, natural and rather neutral. It's not overly warm or analytical, and not too bright or dark. I think its main pros are transparency and accuracy. The soundstage is a little larger than the medium.
> Stock tubes Voshod 6N1P-EV were a little bright and lack of bass for my taste, but you can always change the sound with 6922 tubes (or 5670 with adapters). I think Echo responses to the tube change quite well (and this is another interesting game). I use at the moment Russian Reflector 6N23P-EV, probably not the best 6N23P tube but it has good bass and richness in the sound.
> Lukasz from Feliks Audio was very helpful and responsive as well. He replied to all my questions and assisted with smooth delivery.
> ...


You are right, it is an exquisite amp in both looks and sound. It makes me want more big headphones.


----------



## Halam (Jan 24, 2020)

crabdog said:


> You are right, it is an exquisite amp in both looks and sound. It makes me want more big headphones.


I understand you, I have ZMF Atticus and it is BIG and sounds fantastic with Echo. I still want to play with tube rolling to increase sub-bass a  little bit (any suggestions on tubes with good sub-bass are welcome)  And though I like Atticus very much, its bigger brother Eicon is tempting. Well, I must stop and just enjoy my equipment...sometime...in the future...maybe


----------



## KyleCrane

Hi
Is here anybody using the Audeze LCD-2 Classic with the Echo and likes to share some impressions? I'm asking because Feliks recommends cans from 100-600 Ohms, while the Audeze goes with 70. Using the Beyers 1990Pro now, which to me sound great. But looking for something else, just for a change and heard great reviews about the Audeze. I understand, the Audeze are completely different from the Beyers. But I probably would drive both cans anyway, depending on the music. 
Many thanks
KC


----------



## cspersel

KyleCrane said:


> Hi
> Is here anybody using the Audeze LCD-2 Classic with the Echo and likes to share some impressions? I'm asking because Feliks recommends cans from 100-600 Ohms, while the Audeze goes with 70. Using the Beyers 1990Pro now, which to me sound great. But looking for something else, just for a change and heard great reviews about the Audeze. I understand, the Audeze are completely different from the Beyers. But I probably would drive both cans anyway, depending on the music.
> Many thanks
> KC


I have the Echo, but gave my son my LCD-2's. I'll see if he can bring them next time he visits and I'll give them a listen. Meanwhile, I have two low impedance headphones (Focal Elegia and Meze Empyrian) which both sound good with the Echo. That said ... my high impedance ZMF Atticus so sound better with the Echo. If you move up to the Elise, however, it covers a wider range of headphones.


----------



## Leonarfd

KyleCrane said:


> Hi
> Is here anybody using the Audeze LCD-2 Classic with the Echo and likes to share some impressions? I'm asking because Feliks recommends cans from 100-600 Ohms, while the Audeze goes with 70. Using the Beyers 1990Pro now, which to me sound great. But looking for something else, just for a change and heard great reviews about the Audeze. I understand, the Audeze are completely different from the Beyers. But I probably would drive both cans anyway, depending on the music.
> Many thanks
> KC



I have the LCD 2 Classic and the Echo, they pair fine. Still I prefer using my solidstate amp with the lcd2c. 

Using the Echo only with my T1 and HD600 and they pair really good


----------



## Nostoi

Hi, can anyone offer a comparison of the Echo vs the Espressivo MK2? Both look superb, but I'd be curious if it's worth spending more for the Espressivo. Thanks


----------



## tracyca

I have the MK2 and I must truly say it is one of the best Audio Buys I have spent my hard earned money on. It rocks and is build first class no cheap parts on this amp.


----------



## jumpa

hello, can anyone compare echo to bottle head crack speedball for senn`s? thanx a lot


----------



## mayurs

I don't see any HD650/Massdrop HD6xx impressions with the Echo. If anyone can help here, it will be highly appreciated. My other option is the Valhalla 2 or the Lyr3.


----------



## Gazny (Apr 19, 2020)

Anyone know what Potentiometer is in the echo?'
Alps Blue velvet


----------



## JM1979

Does the Echo respond well to rolling the driver tubes?


----------



## Kevin Lee

I want to know too


JM1979 said:


> Does the Echo respond well to rolling the driver tubes?


----------



## Kevin Lee (May 25, 2020)

I roll these driver tubes. Better separation and more tight bass with clean top end.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Thanks, gonna try those tubes. I do like the stock tubes very much though.


----------



## Greeni

Feliks Echo is OTL design meant to drive difficult loads?
Does it works well with efficient phones like the wooden Grado RS1e/RS2e?


----------



## Rebel Chris (Jun 24, 2020)

It drives my grado's superb (GH2, SR325, PS500e) as well as my ZMF Eikon. Don't have really difficult to drive headphones. It's silent when not playing music.

The echo does surprise my: for a budget tube amp it preforms well. 

The stock tubes are fine. The Tesla e88cc does sound different (better bass, separation +/- can't tell).


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Has anyone experimented with upgrading internal parts?For instance the TOL uses the following & I wonder how far the Echo would go with similar mods.I know just get the TOL but I DON'T like the TOL model,I like the simplicity of the Echo & I really like the choice of tubes it uses...


100% pure silver signal wiring in teflon jacket
Heavy duty teflon gold-plated tube sockets
High quality Mundorf and Nichicon capacitors
Dale and Caddock resistors....
Any thoughts?


----------



## qboogie

Can anyone elaborate on what makes the Echo only an entry level OTL amp, and what exactly is gained by upgrading to the Euforia?


----------



## rgrcliffe

qboogie said:


> Can anyone elaborate on what makes the Echo only an entry level OTL amp, and what exactly is gained by upgrading to the Euforia?


I was wondering the same thing myself.  I own an Echo, and I really like it. I was thinking what kind of difference I would hear in a more expensive amp for purely headphone listening.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver (Aug 13, 2020)

"qboogie
100+ Head-Fier
JoinedAug 17, 2019LocationNew York City, NYPosts188Likes93
Can anyone elaborate on what makes the Echo only an entry level OTL amp, and what exactly is gained by upgrading to the Euforia?"


rgrcliffe said:


> I was wondering the same thing myself.  I own an Echo, and I really like it. I was thinking what kind of difference I would hear in a more expensive amp for purely headphone listening.


It is labeled "Entry Level"because there are more expensive models above it.It is ABSOLUTE RELIGIOUS DOGMA that a product can NOT be considered TOTL/End Game unless it is in the Top 10% cost of a given product line or hobby(head-fi)REGARDLESS OF HOW IT PERFORMS..It is also ABSOLUTE DOGMA that in SUBJECTIVE reviewing,NO ENTRY LEVEL priced product will ever be chosen as better than a more expensive competitor!It will ALWAYS be said that MORE $ gets better components internally,better sounding tubes & better construction..
Read ANY positive review of ANY product and it will ALWAYS be stated that product X is the absolute best I ever heard or it performed wonderfully,IN IT"S PRICE BRACKET but product Y is better overall because it cost twice as much...
  I recently started a thread in Summit Fi,asking what products were considered by the community overall as End Game but priced so they were affordable..There has been ZERO replies..


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## OctavianH (Aug 14, 2020)

qboogie said:


> Can anyone elaborate on what makes the Echo only an entry level OTL amp, and what exactly is gained by upgrading to the Euforia?



I would say that the biggest advantage of Elise/Euforia is the use of 6SN7/6AS7 types of tubes which provide enormous rolling capabilities. I owned in the past the Littledot MK2 which uses the same tube types as Echo and when I upgraded to Elise the difference was huge in terms of clarity, separation and so on. I would not say that Echo is not a good amp, it might be, but Elise and Euforia are in a different league. But of course, these tube types are more expensive and you should worry not about the amplifier price, but the price you will pay on all the tubes you will want to try, which would be, most probably, several times more than the amplifier itself.


----------



## rgrcliffe

OctavianH said:


> when I upgraded to Elise the difference was huge in terms of clarity, separation and so on.


Was the difference apparent with the stock tubes?  How much better did it get when you rolled the tubes?


----------



## Halam (Aug 14, 2020)

The choice of tubes can be greatly expanded by the use of 5670 and 12**7 family tubes with adapters. And it can be cheaper also, comparing to the best 6922 family tubes. You can find a huge amount of useful information in Schiit Lyr Tube Roller thread. 12**7 family is popular now in this thread, but 5670 is not worse. All you need is a cheap Chinese adapter from eBay ( or better quality one from Tubemonger). I personally use 5670 RCA COMMAND SERIES NOS "O" getter halo 1968 with adapter in my Echo and it's sound much better then the stock tubes.


----------



## OctavianH

rgrcliffe said:


> Was the difference apparent with the stock tubes?  How much better did it get when you rolled the tubes?



It is hard to comment on this since I bought it without tubes and bought separately what I needed. Anyway, I have in my collection a pair of Svetlana 6H13C which, as far as I know, are provided as stock output tubes and I consider them decent, at let's say 6/10 but other power tubes like for example Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080WB or GEC 6AS7G are around 9/10 (of course, every assessment is subjective, a matter of taste, of synergy with the rest of the line and headphones and so on, take it with a grain of salt). For the drivers I have no idea, I do not own a pair of those.


----------



## rgrcliffe

Halam said:


> The choice of tubes can be greatly expanded by the use of 5670 and 12**7 family tubes with adapters. And it can be cheaper also, comparing to the best 6922 family tubes. You can find a huge amount of useful information in Schiit Lyr Tube Roller thread. 12**7 family is popular now in this thread, but 5670 is not worse. All you need is a cheap Chinese adapter from eBay ( or better quality one from Tubemonger). I personally use 5670 RCA COMMAND SERIES NOS "O" getter halo 1968 with adapter in my Echo and it's sound much better then the stock tubes.


Thank you very much for this information. I will have a look at the Schiit Lyr thread as you suggested.  It sounds an interesting first path for me to try.  Presumably, there is no risk of damaging the amplifier using this family of tubes through an adaptor?


----------



## rgrcliffe

OctavianH said:


> It is hard to comment on this since I bought it without tubes and bought separately what I needed. Anyway, I have in my collection a pair of Svetlana 6H13C which, as far as I know, are provided as stock output tubes and I consider them decent, at let's say 6/10 but other power tubes like for example Tung Sol 5998, Bendix 6080WB or GEC 6AS7G are around 9/10 (of course, every assessment is subjective, a matter of taste, of synergy with the rest of the line and headphones and so on, take it with a grain of salt). For the drivers I have no idea, I do not own a pair of those.


Thank you very much for your reply.  I can see now why there might be a reason to have an Elise/Euphoria to have further options for experimentation.  The Echo is the first tube amp I have owned, and I have been so impressed with it, that it is exciting yet bewildering to contemplate how it might be improved.  I think I need to learn a lot more!


----------



## Halam

rgrcliffe said:


> Thank you very much for this information. I will have a look at the Schiit Lyr thread as you suggested.  It sounds an interesting first path for me to try.  Presumably, there is no risk of damaging the amplifier using this family of tubes through an adaptor?


5670 and 12**7 family tubes with adapters are compatible with 6922 family (they all have 6.3 volts on heater) . Guys from Schiit Lyr recommend adapters (as well as socket savers) from Tubemonger as better quality adapters then chinese. And some folks swear that 5670 easily beat 6922, and 12**7 even better. Well this Shiit Lyr thread is inexhaustible source of tube rolling options, and i would like to try one of those 12**7 variants now, bearing in mind they are cheaper then 6922.


----------



## Halam

rgrcliffe said:


> Thank you very much for your reply.  I can see now why there might be a reason to have an Elise/Euphoria to have further options for experimentation.  The Echo is the first tube amp I have owned, and I have been so impressed with it, that it is exciting yet bewildering to contemplate how it might be improved.  I think I need to learn a lot more!


Echo is also my first OTL amp i bought for my 300 Ohms ZMF Atticus, and it easily beaten my Cavally Liquid Carbon. I think Echo is one of the best price/performance OTL amps, and choice of OTL is not big. And I also tempting to try some better amp, but can easily live with Echo🤔


----------



## OctavianH

This is the same I see it: Echo seems to be a very decent OTL for an entry level budget. Of course, if you want more you can go up the ladder but you need to be warned that not only the price of the amplifier has to be taken into consideration, but also the higher price of the tubes for that amplifier.


----------



## rgrcliffe

Halam said:


> Echo is also my first OTL amp i bought for my 300 Ohms ZMF Atticus, and it easily beaten my Cavally Liquid Carbon. I think Echo is one of the best price/performance OTL amps, and choice of OTL is not big. And I also tempting to try some better amp, but can easily live with Echo🤔


I originally bought the Echo to pair with my old Sennheiser HD600 headphones.  I then bought a pair of 600 Ohms Beyerdynamic T1.2 phones. I have really enjoyed listening to music with both these headphones with the Echo. 

 I also have the Beyerdynamic A20 amp.  Comparing the Echo to the A20, listening with the T1.2, I much prefer the tube amp.  The A20 is not bad, but the Echo is so much better to my ears.


----------



## rgrcliffe

Halam said:


> 5670 and 12**7 family tubes with adapters are compatible with 6922 family (they all have 6.3 volts on heater) . Guys from Schiit Lyr recommend adapters (as well as socket savers) from Tubemonger as better quality adapters then chinese. And some folks swear that 5670 easily beat 6922, and 12**7 even better. Well this Shiit Lyr thread is inexhaustible source of tube rolling options, and i would like to try one of those 12**7 variants now, bearing in mind they are cheaper then 6922.


Thank you for confirming this.  I will certainly follow this up.


----------



## OctavianH

rgrcliffe said:


> I also have the Beyerdynamic A20 amp.  Comparing the Echo to the A20, listening with the T1.2, I much prefer the tube amp.  The A20 is not bad, but the Echo is so much better to my ears.



I have also the T1 second gen and it cannot be compared on tubes with any solid state amplifier. I tried them with A2 and also the TT2 and you cannot match a tube amp


----------



## rgrcliffe

OctavianH said:


> This is the same I see it: Echo seems to be a very decent OTL for an entry level budget. Of course, if you want more you can go up the ladder but you need to be warned that not only the price of the amplifier has to be taken into consideration, but also the higher price of the tubes for that amplifier.


I take your point.  These things can get very expensive!


----------



## rgrcliffe

OctavianH said:


> I have also the T1 second gen and it cannot be compared on tubes with any solid state amplifier. I tried them with A2 and also the TT2 and you cannot match a tube amp


Interesting.  Thank you.


----------



## Halam

rgrcliffe said:


> I take your point.  These things can get very expensive!


There is one very interesting option for upgrade in OTL amp territory and to not rob a bank. It's Glenn OTL, some head-fiers say this is a killer amp for adequate money, but it can be tricky to get one.


----------



## 1slyB

Hmmm, bought the Echo about a month ago and love it so far.  Having to use as a preamp into my SMSL SP200 just so I can use my XLR cable as my single ended is terrible and ruins the experience till my new cable comes in.  Thinking about rolling tube but I like the sound atm and don't know better so leaving it haha.  I was going to buy a SS amp being a V281 but the sale fell through so considering a second Feliks Audio amp. 

So was going to move the Echo to the PC and get either a Elise or Euforia, which would you guys recommend to complement the Echo.  I was thinking the Elise as it seems more popular in the community?


----------



## Dailydrive

Newbie here to this forum and only my 2nd post after self intro 😊

Come to this thread out of curiosity if Echo can be used as part of my Stax setup, having recently outbid & missed out of a SRM-600, which is a Stax energiser with ECC99 tubes. 

So was wondering if OTL Echo (with its RCA output) be substitute for tube-warm sound on my Stax instead of exploring a very expensive tube route of BHSE amp for Stax ear speaker 

i.e. 
Tidal master (source) - > 
Audio-gd NFB-11.38 (DAC) - > 
FA Echo (still Exploring, via RCA In&Out)
 - > Airbow SRM-222P (Stax driver) - > 
SR-SC1 (earspeaker) 

Many many thanks in advance for your advise. At work currently, so may only visit this thread again after 🇸🇬9pm.


----------



## qboogie

I've been doing some research about tube rolling. I like the stock tubes just fine: they are abundant in warmth, bass texture (which I love) and spaciousness. This is my first tube amp and I bought it to try with the ZMF Verite open, since so many VO owners swear by OTLs with them. I have been looking for a tube that improves the clarity in the vocal midrange. Compared to the M-scaled Hugo TT2, which conveys such a sharpened, vivid image that I can practically see the singer's mouth as they form the words, the stock Echo tubes present this mid-range in a sort of "blocky" wall of sound, without much vocal texturing, however I do like that the stock Echo presents more up-front vocals, which IMO corrects the VO's sole flaw of slightly recessed upper midrange.

I spoke with another head-fier who recommended a few tubes:

1. *Siemens 7308:* The user commented "those selections will have a richer and fuller bottom half compared to the stock tubes." On Upscaleaudio, a reviewer said this about the Siemens 7308: "Unlike most 7308 tubes that usually have a somewhat relaxed top end, this tube has a clean top end that maintains extension without being bright, neutral mids, and wonderful tight bass."  $48- 58 each, depending on grade, from upscaleaudio's site

2. *Gold Lions 6922* "If you enjoy your stock Echo tube sound, then you could try going for Gold Lions 6922 for a similar sound signature, but with more holographic imaging." I am not sure if this means tonal balance is the same but better clarity, or just better instrument separation. These go for $50-60 each on Upscaleaudio. I did purchase a pair and will report back with impressions.

3*. Mullard 6922*: Reviews often mentioned a rich, liquid midrange, which were typical to this British-made tube.The description on Upscaleaudio is they "Will give you that famous, liquid smooth Mullard midrange, with a smidge more energy on top. Great tube if your system is a little relaxed, as they will give you more sparkle in the highs." Not really the solution to the clarity issue I am having.

The Echo manual states “Stock preamp tubes are 6922….Tubes can be changed by the user, to the following: Driver tubes: E88CC, 6N23P,  6DJ8, 6922." I also asked a rep at upscale if the stock 6N1P tube can be swapped out for the above tubes, and he confirmed yes. 

My gear stream is
Hugo M Scaler -> Snake River Boomslang BNC -> Hugo TT2 on filter 1 -> Forza Clair interconnects -> Feliks Echo -> Norne Silvergarde S3 -> ZMF Verite Open


----------



## JM1979

qboogie said:


> I've been doing some research about tube rolling. I like the stock tubes just fine: they are abundant in warmth, bass texture (which I love) and spaciousness. This is my first tube amp and I bought it to try with the ZMF Verite open, since so many VO owners swear by OTLs with them. I have been looking for a tube that improves the clarity in the vocal midrange. Compared to the M-scaled Hugo TT2, which conveys such a sharpened, vivid image that I can practically see the singer's mouth as they form the words, the stock Echo tubes present this mid-range in a sort of "blocky" wall of sound, without much vocal texturing, however I do like that the stock Echo presents more up-front vocals, which IMO corrects the VO's sole flaw of slightly recessed upper midrange.
> 
> I spoke with another head-fier who recommended a few tubes:
> 
> ...



So I thought I was the only person on the planet with a MScaler, TT2 and Echo, I guess not.

It’s a fantastic chain with some nice ability to tweak given the TT2 filters and tubes.

They are expensive but I love the Amperex USA 7308s that I have. I feel like they also add a nice holographic element to the music. I use those and some gold plate Russian tubes and absolutely love it. I wouldn’t change a thing.

I got the Amperex from this site if you’re interested.http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6dj8.html


----------



## qboogie

JM1979 said:


> So I thought I was the only person on the planet with a MScaler, TT2 and Echo, I guess not.
> 
> It’s a fantastic chain with some nice ability to tweak given the TT2 filters and tubes.
> 
> ...



I am reading more about those amperex 7308s, and have my eye out for the early US 1960s vintage, white-lettering.  There are so many slight variants that it's a little confusing. Add to that the possibility of Chinese counterfeit versions. Can you share a photo of yours?


----------



## JM1979

qboogie said:


> I am reading more about those amperex 7308s, and have my eye out for the early US 1960s vintage, white-lettering.  There are so many slight variants that it's a little confusing. Add to that the possibility of Chinese counterfeit versions. Can you share a photo of yours?



I’ll get a photo but it might be a day or so. That site I posted is legit.

Mine are white letter, gold plated, NOS.


----------



## qboogie

What is the general effect one can achieve by changing the power tubes? Someone earlier in this thread recommended focusing on the driver tubes first, but I'm just wondering


----------



## qboogie

By the way, here is an interesting trove of information providing more history and discerning characteristics of the 6DJ8/6922/7308 family of driver tubes that can be used with the Echo. 

Also there is a section about how to spot counterfeits which will be important to anyone buying tubes from eBay or elsewhere. 

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


----------



## 1slyB

I was looking at upgrading both tubes, was thinking Gold Lion for driver and power as 

https://www.evatco.com.au/6h30pi-sovtek

Any other recommendations?

Is the 6h30p interchangeable with the 6h30pi? Also is the also have the same question with the 6n6p and the 6n6pi?


----------



## Dailydrive (Sep 6, 2020)

Recently brought a preloved Espressivo Mk1. Comes with 6H6П-И X '74 power tube (prev owner said he chg but misplaced original) & OTK 6H1П-EB 09 03 (said to be original tube from Feliks) so I can't do a comparison of power tube.

I tried another driver 6H1П' VI 73 NOS (with "CCCP" stamped) , & subsequent GE5670W JAN 12/87 with 5670to6922 adapter.
On both occasions there are noticeable hearing improvement in tonal, voice, bass & overall musicality compared to earlier tubes.

Been enjoying with my AB Stax SC-1, No EQ tuning but only up vol my Audio-gd 11.38 if I need vocal&instrument clarity, or vol on Espressivo for tonal warmth, without needing to adj vol on my AB SRM-222P electrostatic driver.


----------



## Celamojo (Sep 6, 2020)

delete


----------



## Celamojo

Hi guys, 

I would like to ask your help to make a choice.  I am considering between a Woo Audio Wa6 used (inlcuding Sophia Mesh Rectifier 274B) or a brand new Feliks Audio Echo.  Both are the same price.  Which one would you recommend?

It will go with HD800, Beyerdyanmic T1Gen1, Aeon Flow Closed, AKG 701, Hifiman 400i.  I list to all kinds of music from jazz, rock to female vocal.  THe input source is either Onkyo Dpx1 or Chord Mojo + LGv30.

thanks in advance!


----------



## 1slyB

Celamojo said:


> I would like to ask your help to make a choice. I am considering between a Woo Audio Wa6 used (inlcuding Sophia Mesh Rectifier 274B) or a brand new Feliks Audio Echo. Both are the same price. Which one would you recommend?



I like the Feliks better then the Woo Audio but I think you would be limited to the Woo Audio based WA6 on impedance of your headphones.  The Hifiman and Aeon will work on the Feliks but it is not recommended, didn't check the impedance of your other headphones just knew these would not be recommended.  The WA6 is recommended for headphones from 8-600 ohm and has a switch on the back, while the Feliks starts at 100 ohm up to 600 ohm.


----------



## Celamojo

Thanks for the advice! If I understand correctly then Echo is probably only suitable for HD800 and T1.


----------



## 1slyB

Celamojo said:


> Thanks for the advice! If I understand correctly then Echo is probably only suitable for HD800 and T1.



Yes you would probably not get the best sound quality. It will probably have background sound which would affect sound quality. I have heard some people do use lower impedance headphones on the Echo but technically not recommended. The Elise goes down to 32 ohm but it's double the price.

I would personally try to get a second hand woo audio wa2 which maybe a better option.


----------



## Dailydrive (Sep 7, 2020)

very true. I can't get a good balance with 32Ω HE4xx on Espressivo 1, include switching to Low Gain on 11.38 DAC & power from E1, but vocal tonal become recess. High Gain from 11.38 to E1 the sound get distorted


----------



## Celamojo

I decided to go for the Eufonika H7 in the end.  It seems to be offering a comparble performance to Echo but at a lower price points.  Obviously Echo has a nicer design but some reviews mentioned H7 works well with lower impedience headphones.  

Let's see how it works out!  It's a good development to have new tube amplifiers entering the budget segment


----------



## qboogie

An update to my previous post about driver tube options. 

*Gold Lions 6922: *super clean sound with great instrument separation. Very ethereal sounding, in that the sounds just appear out of thin air.  Really wonderful with the Verite open since the holography effect of both the tube and headphone are even more pronounced. Cleaner and less warm than the stock tubes.

*Amperex 7308* (White lettering, glass etching, PQ shield graphic, gold pin). Now I understand why this tube is so deeply revered. More body and texture overall. really intimate and upfront vocals. More vocal clarity than the stock tubes for sure. A bit busier than the gold lions or stock tubes because there is so much more microdetail. Less subbass than the stock to my ears. Just gorgeous


----------



## 1slyB (Sep 20, 2020)

Got to try some new driver tubes. Two versions of the Siemens CCA and I think it was a Russian 74 or 75. The other Siemens Rohre come in a slightly darker blue box, would not recommend for the Echo as its a bit more brighter and was not a good match, whats the difference between the 2 tube...don't know just not as nice.  Would recommend the Siemens CCA Rohre A4 very nice tube.


----------



## Halam (Oct 17, 2020)

Regarding low impedance headphones. I was exploring the Verum 1 planar headphones thread (glowing impressions, but only 8 Ohms impedance!!! And designer of Verum 1 recommended this (though didn't try myself):

https://m.it.aliexpress.com/item/32860270299.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail


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## greenblured

Got the Echo. Came with Power tubes: Russian Nevz(Novosibirsk) single getter stand grey shield 1972.
Pre. tubes:Voskhod(Kaluga) double getter stand (OTK 1) 1982.
Burned in for ca 150 houres.
Stream: Qobus>Ipad>Qutest>Echo>Hd800/650,Beyer 990/600.
Detailed sound, but very mid forward.
shrill highs with the 800 on female vocals.
And the 650 ....got to sell it, hate the shouty mids.
where this amp shine (imo) is with the 600 ohm Beyer. Very dynamic with no sibilance.
Looking for a T1/1


----------



## 1slyB

greenblured said:


> Got the Echo.



Same I really like the amp but it did take a while to get it setup nicely.  Better tubes helped.



greenblured said:


> shrill highs with the 800 on female vocals.



What DAC are you using and have you modded your HD800 to remove the 6k issue (if not maybe try a little EQ to remove that bump)?  I had a Sabre and had to change the filter as well as the tubes to smooth it out.  Now my favorite headphones are my HD800s on the Echo when previously they were pretty average.


----------



## greenblured

Cord Qutest dac. Looking into rolling the input tubes. Some nos Mullards?


----------



## greenblured

Oh well, prob. gonna do the rabbit hole. Tele etc. Lol tubes costing 500-600. The stock tubes is def holding the amp back. Tested a non paired pcc Mats.(jap). Not good. Heavy bass muddy mids and highs.
Ok for bad recorded rock.
For large classical works ss is prob better than tube-amps(imo)


----------



## greenblured

wodering what will give the best sq; stock Elise or top specked Felix. That is with 300-600 ohm dynamic drivers?


----------



## qboogie

A few others (including me) in this thread had been wondering what you achieve sonically by upgrading from the Echo to the Euforia (aside from having other, more expensive tube options, better quality components, and more inclusive impedance output  to allow low-impedance headphones. I posted this question in the Euforia thread and here is an answer.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feliks-audio-euforia-a-wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.831743/post-15923837

Some of the tubes people are rolling with Euforia exceed the cost of a new Echo itself -- for just one tube.


----------



## CJG888

Has anyone compared this to the WBA HPA Master (also a Polish amp, seems like good value)?


----------



## junoe

qboogie said:


> An update to my previous post about driver tube options.
> 
> *Gold Lions 6922: *super clean sound with great instrument separation. Very ethereal sounding, in that the sounds just appear out of thin air.  Really wonderful with the Verite open since the holography effect of both the tube and headphone are even more pronounced. Cleaner and less warm than the stock tubes.
> 
> *Amperex 7308* (White lettering, glass etching, PQ shield graphic, gold pin). Now I understand why this tube is so deeply revered. More body and texture overall. really intimate and upfront vocals. More vocal clarity than the stock tubes for sure. A bit busier than the gold lions or stock tubes because there is so much more microdetail. Less subbass than the stock to my ears. Just gorgeous


Thanks for this, will definitely give these a go next time, I bought the Feliks Echo about 2 months ago for my ZMF Verite Closed and was wondering what other tubes to try


----------



## MikeWestSE (Dec 7, 2020)

I've had the Echo (paired with HD650's) for a year. For a first tube amp it's been a terrific companion, I adore the 3D holographic stage & separation. The initial burn-in is just part of the story, I found that after a couple thousand hours, the stock tubes are positively glowing in the mids. The term entry-level gets thrown around a lot but I do a lot of music production and find the Echo just flattering enough to be enjoyable for listening, and still neutral enough to monitor mixes on. I wouldn't be desperate to upgrade to an even more deceptively flattering Hi-fi experience. However, as a treble-sensitive guy and listening to a lot of electronic music, there's too much high-frequency content to my ears. The 8khz region needs nearly 2dB of wide attenuation, and with the famous 650 roll-off, the sub100Hz region could use a bump. I could probably get there with a dedicated EQ solution but I'm curious to hear your ideas for tubes to roll. Current prod ones are vastly preferred. I thought the Gold Lions would be a warmer substitute but there's an earlier post in this thread that seems to suggest otherwise.


----------



## Halam

MikeWestSE said:


> I've had the Echo (paired with HD650's) for a year. For a first tube amp it's been a terrific companion, I adore the 3D holographic stage & separation. The initial burn-in is just part of the story, I found that after a couple thousand hours, the stock tubes are positively glowing in the mids. The term entry-level gets thrown around a lot but I do a lot of music production and find the Echo just flattering enough to be enjoyable for listening, and still neutral enough to monitor mixes on. I wouldn't be desperate to upgrade to an even more deceptively flattering Hi-fi experience. However, as a treble-sensitive guy and listening to a lot of electronic music, there's too much high-frequency content to my ears. The 8khz region needs nearly 2dB of wide attenuation, and with the famous 650 roll-off, the sub100Hz region could use a bump. I could probably get there with a dedicated EQ solution but I'm curious to hear your ideas for tubes to roll. Current prod ones are vastly preferred. I thought the Gold Lions would be a warmer substitute but there's an earlier post in this thread that seems to suggest otherwise.


I would say that stock tubes are good enough, but just to familiarise yourself with amplifier, because there are much better tubes. And Russian tubes in general can be bright if you sensitive to trebles


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## triggsviola

I just purchased an Echo from Upscale. I'll probably pick it up sometime next week. My main system is an Audio-gd R7 to Master 9 to Focal Utopia setup. I've also got an A1 power amp in there to power my nearfield desktop speakers (LS50). It's a nice setup, but a bit analytical. I wanted tube sound so I'm also running a Darkvoice off the R7. I love how punchy, colorful, and holographic it is, but I'm getting quite of bit of noise (hum and whatnot) and I'm losing a fair bit of detail. I'm hoping the Echo will keep the punchiness and elevated bass, but keep more of the detail, and, hopefully, cut down on some of the noise.


----------



## Rebel Chris

The darkvoice is a hummingbird: mine did hum because of the wifi router. With the Echo on the same position: no hum. 
Enjoy your Echo, you will like it.


----------



## greenblured

Listening to music with the Echo in the chaine with a pair of closely matched nos Ulm Telefunken early 60'th is IME a totaly another experiance than with the russian stock innput tubes. Fk expensive (480 euros from Audioantiquari Genova-Italy+toll,tax and shipping. The sound out of the 650 totaly changed from being shrill to being hollografick 3d detailed smooth non fatiguing. Strangely ime the hd800 is not a good match with the Echo. Thin sounding, lacking punch. But with the 650 it's great!


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## greenblured

Oh.. The Tele's are e88cc.


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## MikeWestSE

greenblured said:


> Listening to music with the Echo in the chaine with a pair of closely matched nos Ulm Telefunken early 60'th is IME a totaly another experiance than with the russian stock innput tubes. Fk expensive (480 euros from Audioantiquari Genova-Italy+toll,tax and shipping. The sound out of the 650 totaly changed from being shrill to being hollografick 3d detailed smooth non fatiguing. Strangely ime the hd800 is not a good match with the Echo. Thin sounding, lacking punch. But with the 650 it's great!



Which Telefunken model are you talking about? Thanks for your input.


----------



## greenblured

E88cc


----------



## greenblured

Another thing is what output voltage option from my Qutest sounds best.? Def. 2 volt. 3 is borderline clipping.


----------



## greenblured

And the stock input tubes (6N30P) runs at 365ma, E88cc runs at 300ma.
Some reviewes of the Echo coments that the amp is very hot/warm by the touch. With E88cc it's def. cooler.


----------



## triggsviola

I picked up the Echo yesterday. Even with fresh tubes, it outperforms the Darkvoice by miles.


----------



## greenblured

Picked up a couple of mains Wireworld 'entry level' power cords on Black Friday. 
Why? The conections seemed a little loose, hoped for a tighter fit.
No hope for 'better sound'. To my suprise there was audible diference.
Am i loosing detaile here? Back and forth..the sound seems calmer without loosing detail with the Wireworld conneccted to the Echo and the Allo LPS running to the Qutest.


----------



## qboogie

Try the amperex 7308 gold pins. Really wonderful


----------



## greenblured

Lol, yea, what vitntage?
Looking for a pair of Siemens e88cc.
Well, we are talking about innput-tubes, but what about the output tupes?
6H30-DR seems to bee the best. Expensive..400-600.


----------



## CJG888

If you’re prepared to spend that much on tubes, maybe you should have gone for the Elise?


----------



## Halam

greenblured said:


> Lol, yea, what vitntage?
> Looking for a pair of Siemens e88cc.
> Well, we are talking about innput-tubes, but what about the output tupes?
> 6H30-DR seems to bee the best. Expensive..400-600.


Is there any sense to upgrade stock power tubes? One fellow adviced me that power tubes have minimal effect on sound, and better to concentrate on driver tubes...


----------



## Minkypou

looking at this amp to upgrade from the valhalla 2 , anybody here has heard both ?


----------



## Minkypou

greenblured said:


> Picked up a couple of mains Wireworld 'entry level' power cords on Black Friday.
> Why? The conections seemed a little loose, hoped for a tighter fit.
> No hope for 'better sound'. To my suprise there was audible diference.
> Am i loosing detaile here? Back and forth..the sound seems calmer without loosing detail with the Wireworld conneccted to the Echo and the Allo LPS running to the Qutest.


i did made a swap on my valhalla 2 and there was a difference , they can do that yeah


----------



## triggsviola

I put Golden Lion 6922 in my Echo. It seemed to loose the sparkle on top and was less holographic, less interesting. Anybody else share that experience?


----------



## MikeWestSE (Dec 24, 2020)

Thanks for the suggestions! Ordered a pair of NOS Philips SQ. Merry Christmas everyone. Make sure to play some Christmas brass through the unit! Bands like Canadian Brass just sound exemplary through those mids.


----------



## Minkypou

ordered a feliks echo today for my christmas present  will compare with my valhalla 2 ( using all 4 stock tubes of the valhalla in echo to compare directly the amps ) and ill leave a little rewiew comparaison here for anybody who is thinking of following this upgrade path like i did ! really excited for that beautiful amp !#!


----------



## psklrdk

Minkypou said:


> ordered a feliks echo today for my christmas present  will compare with my valhalla 2 ( using all 4 stock tubes of the valhalla in echo to compare directly the amps ) and ill leave a little rewiew comparaison here for anybody who is thinking of following this upgrade path like i did ! really excited for that beautiful amp !#!


Echo is quite impressive withe the stock  tubes. I was very impressed.


----------



## pgkrish

Has anyone had a chance to compare the echo with the Lyr 3? I am wondering if moving from Lyr 3 to Echo can be considered an upgrade.


----------



## blackdragon87

would this be an upgrade over the valhalla 2 for the eikon and atticus?


----------



## blackdragon87

Minkypou said:


> ordered a feliks echo today for my christmas present  will compare with my valhalla 2 ( using all 4 stock tubes of the valhalla in echo to compare directly the amps ) and ill leave a little rewiew comparaison here for anybody who is thinking of following this upgrade path like i did ! really excited for that beautiful amp !#!



I am interesred, thx


----------



## Minkypou

blackdragon87 said:


> would this be an upgrade over the valhalla 2 for the eikon and atticus?


i also have atticus !  what a wonderfull fun beast


----------



## blackdragon87 (Dec 29, 2020)

Minkypou said:


> i also have atticus !  what a wonderfull fun beast


 yeah, its def a good one


----------



## blackdragon87

cool,looking forward to your comparison of the echo vs valhallla 2


----------



## gc335

junoe said:


> Thanks for this, will definitely give these a go next time, I bought the Feliks Echo about 2 months ago for my ZMF Verite Closed and was wondering what other tubes to try


I have both the VC and the Echo on the way.  How are you liking the pairing?


----------



## gc335

Minkypou said:


> ordered a feliks echo today for my christmas present  will compare with my valhalla 2 ( using all 4 stock tubes of the valhalla in echo to compare directly the amps ) and ill leave a little rewiew comparaison here for anybody who is thinking of following this upgrade path like i did ! really excited for that beautiful amp !#!


I'm very curious to get your thoughts. Thx


----------



## Velozity

Got an Echo recently.  I know some people have had success using 12AU7 in place of 6922 in other applications, so I decided to take a spin on that with my Echo.  But instead of the dual-triode 12AU7 I'm using two single-triode 6C4.  There is a large and growing following of users of the 6C5/6J5 in place of 6SN7 and this is the same idea.  Using two single-triodes in place of their double-triode equivalent has proven to be a significant sonic upgrade in every case.  I asked @Deyan make some adapters, which would be the first of their kind.  I haven't seen 6C4-to-6922 adapters anywhere else.  It sounds wonderful as expected.  I'm still evaluating and will post more impressions and comparisons in the near future.  I have many 6C4 tubes to roll!  I would imagine Liquid Platinum owners might be interested in this as well.


----------



## griga

Hi. I just noticed that Echo V2 was released. 

News from their website:
Increased power output
Better pairing with low impedance/planar magnetic headphones
Selectable 3 audio sources
More effective interference isolation
"Mute" function
Refreshed looks, more scratch and fingerprints resistant finish


----------



## Wyville

griga said:


> Hi. I just noticed that Echo V2 was released.
> 
> News from their website:
> Increased power output
> ...


Saw that too...



Product page: here


----------



## haasaaroni

Minkypou said:


> ordered a feliks echo today for my christmas present  will compare with my valhalla 2 ( using all 4 stock tubes of the valhalla in echo to compare directly the amps ) and ill leave a little rewiew comparaison here for anybody who is thinking of following this upgrade path like i did ! really excited for that beautiful amp !#!


Just came across this thread, and am super interested in this comparison if you still have the possibility to do it!


----------



## Rebel Chris

The original echo was a bargain. The espressivio is replaced by the echo 2 I guess.


----------



## Wyville

Rebel Chris said:


> The original echo was a bargain. The espressivio is replaced by the echo 2 I guess.


I noticed the same thing. I guess the two were so close together that an improved Echo sort of naturally replaced the Espressivo. Or perhaps they have other plans. I know about one, but that is a new balanced tube headphone amp.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Well everybody is jumping the balanced bandwagon. A xlr headphone output is welcome. 

I really like the echo formfactor. It's a neat piece of kit. It's sounds great.


----------



## Magol79

I just wish Feliks would include an XLR out on their single ended amps as well.


----------



## JM1979

gc335 said:


> I have both the VC and the Echo on the way.  How are you liking the pairing?



I loved this pairing. It was very punchy and fun sounding. I listen to a lot of rock, and the echo complimented that genre very well.

Also, for any Echo owners, I have a pair of NOS Russian power tubes that I used in my echo. I don’t have the echo anymore and don’t have a need for the tubes. I had them listed FS on here but it’s such an obscure tube size that I didn’t get any bites. The first person in the US that wants them can have them. Maybe just PayPal methe shipping costs?


----------



## MikeWestSE

I've been anxious to settle the tone of the stock tubes hooked to 650's, and before diving into the tube rolling void, I wanted to give a hardware EQ a try. The Behringer FBQ800 might not be the most elegant solution but it does the job. A touch of extra sub bass and just a slight 2-4khz attenuation really put the Echo & HD650's response where I like it to be for mix decisions. Being able to rely on defined bass and not needing to compensate for the treble spike is a huge relief. It's very easy to overdo, I went for a pretty wild curve at first and had to gradually reduce the changes day by day. The tubes tend to relax in the treble further when on for long periods so it can be a bit finicky...


----------



## Leonarfd

Any of you who have tried the Schiit Valhalla 2 compared to the echo?


----------



## Minkypou (Feb 20, 2021)

Leonarfd said:


> Any of you who have tried the Schiit Valhalla 2 compared to the echo?


Actually .. i made some comparison between the two . i was hesitant to leave some impressions here since i was so unsure of what to say and there is probably some people waiting for it and expecting some good things .

First of all , i gotta say ... there was a difference but it was smaller than i expected it to be .

First thing i did : took the stock output and input tubes of my valhalla 2 and i used them for a bit in the feliks echo . It was really similar and im not sure if the difference i heard was a placebo or not , i felt it had a bigger presentation , sounds further away left and right , more depth and sounds were fuller . but i was questioning myself everytime i was thinking those .. it was the most difficult comparison i did ever to be honest .

Now .. comparing valhalla 2 stock tubes vs feliks echo stock tubes . clear difference between the two ! feliks echo being clearly fuller , especially in the mids and low end . bigger stage , sweeter tone overall  , more weight in the sounds . high are a bit recessed compared to valhalla , valhalla having more air on top and clearer . sounded different but i cant say it was better ?... feliks echo stock tubes are more * tubey and romantic * sounding for sure . 

I value a lot of the small things in the audio chain even when its a small small improvement in sound ( cables and others ... ) but that was not the move for me . could be worth it for some people . that was my perception of the comparison , other people could have a totally different view of those 2 amps if they tried but that was mine .

apart from that , really beautiful amp , i still love it . I probably just expected to much from the upgrade .


----------



## elrey

I am (or was) interested in an echo MK2, but I found it impossible to get an answer from Feliks on some pretty basic questions. I emailed them about one week ago, and I recently tried Facebook. This is not the kind of customer support that I want in that price range. Now, to be honest, Schiit is not much better, but at least they answer your emails.


----------



## Leonarfd

Thanks Minkypou. Was about to buy a used one for another room, had the Echo since the launch of the unit. Still on stock tubes, have not bothered with tube rolling.


----------



## Minkypou (Feb 20, 2021)

Leonarfd said:


> Thanks Minkypou. Was about to buy a used one for another room, had the Echo since the launch of the unit. Still on stock tubes, have not bothered with tube rolling.


i received some NOS sylvania 6922 gold pins around 2 weeks ago and i only use them since , i swapped to the stock tubes from time to time but i always end up on the sylvanias , there is a nice improvement across the board , cleaner sounding  good improvement for my atticus . stock tubes are welcomed when i want to relax late at night . a bit dark for my atticus but i still like them  

( note that im using the holoaudio cyan r2r dac ) so i guess i need clear sounding tubes to balance my chain . i can see the stock tubes really do well with brighter setup than mine .


----------



## Dionysus

Is there a Feliks balanced amp in the works?


----------



## Magol79

Dionysus said:


> Is there a Feliks balanced amp in the works?


I keep hearing rumours about it, and I think I read an interview a while ago where they said they had plans for a balanced amp. 

But I've seen nothing concrete yet. It wouldn't even have to be a true balanced amp for me, I just want the 4-pin XLR connector to plug my headphones into.


----------



## Dionysus

Yeah agree, I also see an Echo MKII has been released.


----------



## elrey

Dionysus said:


> Yeah agree, I also see an Echo MKII has been released.


According to Feliks, the first batch should arrive in March to Upscale Audio (their exclusive distributor in the US)


----------



## Minkypou (Feb 21, 2021)

gotta mention ... my impressions of valhalla 2 vs feliks echo was ...Hmmm.. altered ? i have a humming problem in my chain that ive been trying to fix for months .. valhalla was actually filtering that humming and was dead silent but the echo was not and i can hear a hum at moderate to high listening volumes and is more or less present depending on how much the stage is filled with sounds , more noticable on relaxed songs or things like videos with talking .  

that hum is probably bloating up that beautiful low end the feliks is trying to give me and and it lead me to believe that the upgrade was not so big? i still kept the echo with that in mind and one day ill get rid of the humming but for now its there ..


----------



## Rebel Chris

WiFi router near your echo?


----------



## Minkypou (Feb 21, 2021)

Rebel Chris said:


> WiFi router near your echo?


if i disconnected the rcas from the amp the humming is gone , its coming from my dac or my pc , i would say my dac since when i disconnected the usb cable from the dac ( rcas still connected to the echo ) i still hear humming . but also... if i connect directly into the headphone jack of my pc , i can hear humming , looks like both my pc and my dac are producing humming....  directly in the pc being the worst with humming + weird noise on top of it .

you can call me : NOISEMAN * intro music start  (((((big super villain music)))))) ................. *

my savior jotunheim 2 is coming home right now .. surely ill buy some xlr for it so i can at least have a small noise break . will be a nice addition to had some authority in my atticus  have a good taste of both tube and SS sound . 

ill dive into the humming problem slowly but surely , i will succeed


----------



## AudioDuck

Received my Echo a couple of days ago (with stock tubes), which I purchased from @U2Edge (who, by the way, is a great guy!).

I have it connected to a Furman power conditioner via a Wireworld Aurora power cord, and it is very quiet indeed. 

The Echo’s source is a Schiit Gungnir MB with a Harmonic Tech Truth-Link, a fairly ordinary but high-quality copper interconnect (Ohno cast, so very smooth yet detailed-sounding). 

I’ve tried the Echo with jazz, rock, pop, and acoustic guitar music so far, and am really impressed. I had no idea tubes could provide such slam and textured bass! The “elasticity” of drums- literally hearing more texture and the drum skins rebounding- was not audible via my Violectric V200 or my prior solid state amp, the SPL Auditor. Daaaaaang. This is VERY noticeable with LCD-XCs, which excel at bass detail and clarity

The highs are softer and more recessed, which was my hope as I am a bit treble-averse.

Mids are great, but not miles ahead of the V200. They have a bit more body and delicacy, however. Overall, the Echo + LCD-XCs are a great pairing for jazz/folk/acoustic music (I have not tried large-scale orchestral music yet).

This is the end game amp for me, and barring  any oddities in the next couple of days, my V200 will be in the classifieds soon. It’s a phenomenal amp, but the Echo is just right for my ears.


----------



## alreadyused

Dionysus said:


> an Echo MKII has been released.





elrey said:


> According to Feliks, the first batch should arrive in March to Upscale Audio (their exclusive distributor in the US


Headphones.com now carries the Feliks line. Just ordered an ECHO II from them, arriving tomorrow!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

alreadyused said:


> Headphones.com now carries the Feliks line. Just ordered an ECHO II from them, arriving tomorrow!


Me too lol! Also very excited


----------



## coletrain104

I'm thinking about getting one of these, but the amp dimensions aren't listed, and I'm not quite sure it will fit in with my current desk space. anyone able to measure how deep this amp is?

I'm also curious about how it pairs with sensitive headphones (most sensitive is Grado Hemp), as my current tube amp, ZDT Jr., has an output transformer that audibly hums, and there's some noise from the tubes. I'd be curious how people in this thread feel about pairings like this, just in terms of whether there's audible noise or some other noticeable issue here.


----------



## AudioDuck

coletrain104 said:


> I'm thinking about getting one of these, but the amp dimensions aren't listed, and I'm not quite sure it will fit in with my current desk space. anyone able to measure how deep this amp is?





coletrain104 said:


> I'm also curious about how it pairs with sensitive headphones (most sensitive is Grado Hemp), as my current tube amp, ZDT Jr., has an output transformer that audibly hums, and there's some noise from the tubes. I'd be curious how people in this thread feel about pairings like this, just in terms of whether there's audible noise or some other noticeable issue here.


Are you looking for information on the Echo v1 or the new Echo v2? I have the former and can share measurements if that is helpful.

With regards to noise, I use my Echo with LCD-XCs, which are both sensitive (20 Ohms) and have a low noise floor- so I would hear any notable hum. I have heard nothing yet, and have spent about 6+ hours listening with a number of different genres and volume settings. There is also no audible hum externally from the transformer or otherwise. In my experience, the Echo is as quiet as any solid state headphone amp I’ve owned.


----------



## coletrain104

Since I'd be buying new, I was referencing the echo mkII, but I can't imagine that it would change much. While this is OTL, so no transformer hum, I suppose I was just hoping to get some confirmation on what the noise levels are like, and also make sure it is a reasonable size (depth being the main concern). So it seems you've answered the noise floor question. And I just heard back about a job offer for which I'll have to move, and I accepted! Maybe space won't be a constraint after all. Thanks for your response


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

coletrain104 said:


> I'm thinking about getting one of these, but the amp dimensions aren't listed, and I'm not quite sure it will fit in with my current desk space. anyone able to measure how deep this amp is?
> 
> I'm also curious about how it pairs with sensitive headphones (most sensitive is Grado Hemp), as my current tube amp, ZDT Jr., has an output transformer that audibly hums, and there's some noise from the tubes. I'd be curious how people in this thread feel about pairings like this, just in terms of whether there's audible noise or some other noticeable issue here.


I can check for you when I get it today or tomorrow...


----------



## AudioDuck

coletrain104 said:


> Since I'd be buying new, I was referencing the echo mkII, but I can't imagine that it would change much. While this is OTL, so no transformer hum, I suppose I was just hoping to get some confirmation on what the noise levels are like, and also make sure it is a reasonable size (depth being the main concern). So it seems you've answered the noise floor question. And I just heard back about a job offer for which I'll have to move, and I accepted! Maybe space won't be a constraint after all. Thanks for your response


Congratulations with the new job! I hope your move goes smoothly and that amp space is not a problem. 😄


----------



## Magol79

coletrain104 said:


> I'm thinking about getting one of these, but the amp dimensions aren't listed, and I'm not quite sure it will fit in with my current desk space. anyone able to measure how deep this amp is?
> 
> I'm also curious about how it pairs with sensitive headphones (most sensitive is Grado Hemp), as my current tube amp, ZDT Jr., has an output transformer that audibly hums, and there's some noise from the tubes. I'd be curious how people in this thread feel about pairings like this, just in terms of whether there's audible noise or some other noticeable issue here.


You can go to Feliks website and download the manual. It has the physical dimensions listed.


----------



## searchingtom

Just purchased last week and arriving today !   Fun


----------



## coletrain104

Magol79 said:


> You can go to Feliks website and download the manual. It has the physical dimensions listed.


Actually for this product the dimensions are not listed, and if I'm not mistaken the echo II is the only product that does not have the manual downloadable from their page. I did look and try to find this info, and it doesn't seem to be available. I am not one of those people who asks without looking


----------



## Leonarfd

From the manual


----------



## Leonarfd

Both the first edition and the second is the same except for more inputs and little more power, so the manual for the first should still be viable.
http://feliksaudio.pl/products/echo/echo_manual.pdf


----------



## SteffSergeant

Hey together,

if someones interested, I also got a new Feliks Echo MK 2 from a friend. I bought it for sale, if there is anyone, who is interested, write a pm. I can't sale because 30 days of joining aren't over.

Cheers


----------



## SteffSergeant

Does anyone ever compared a Elise to an Echo? Are the differences between these two models so big?


----------



## Leonarfd

SteffSergeant said:


> Does anyone ever compared a Elise to an Echo? Are the differences between these two models so big?


The Echo is cleaner sounding and faster, Elise gives you more of that gooey tube sound. If I am not wrong the Echo is also more powerful.


----------



## SteffSergeant

Okay, so for cleaner Headphones the Elise should be the better choice? I got an Utopia and a Stellia. So the "best" combination would be Stellia + Echo, Utopia + Elise?


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Echo 2 has landed!  Currently giving the first play to my audio mistress.....

https://songwhip.com/lana-del-rey/chemtrails-over-the-country-club2021

@SteffSergeant I have reviewed the Elise for about 2 months so I can go over some differences once I have some more time with the Echo!


----------



## SteffSergeant

MRphotography said:


> Echo 2 has landed!  Currently giving the first play to my audio mistress.....
> 
> https://songwhip.com/lana-del-rey/chemtrails-over-the-country-club2021
> 
> @SteffSergeant I have reviewed the Elise for about 2 months so I can go over some differences once I have some more time with the Echo!


That would be great.


----------



## hks777 (Apr 6, 2021)

I have never heard an otl tube amp before. Is there a big difference, soundwise between a hybrid and a otl? ( i am aware that otl don't work so good with planars)
Have someone compared it with an lyr2 ?


----------



## SteffSergeant

If anyone is interested, I have a new one to sell.


----------



## MacMan31

I'm curious about this Echo 2 as a compliment to my ZMF Aeolus and Sennheiser HD6XX.


----------



## AudioDuck

MacMan31 said:


> I'm curious about this Echo 2 as a compliment to my ZMF Aeolus and Sennheiser HD6XX.


I will say this: There is very little, if anything, the Echo (v1) gives up to my prior solid-state amps- at least with my ears and taste. I’ve owned the SPL Auditor and Violectric V200, both excellent in their own right, and I’m very pleased with the switch to tubes.

Everyone who has reviewed higher-impedance cans with the Echo has been very impressed. My headphones happen to be more sensitive (Audeze LCD-XC, Focal Elear, and Shure SRH-1540), but they all sound incredible with the Echo, despite not being the optimal impedance match.

I can only imagine how the “right” headphones sound with this OTL bargain marvel.


----------



## domi

MRphotography said:


> Echo 2 has landed!  Currently giving the first play to my audio mistress.....
> 
> https://songwhip.com/lana-del-rey/chemtrails-over-the-country-club2021
> 
> @SteffSergeant I have reviewed the Elise for about 2 months so I can go over some differences once I have some more time with the Echo!



Your Elise MK II review was great!

How's the Echo 2 doing so far? I hope you have good things to say as I'm very close to placing an order to pair it with my soon to arrive Aeolus


----------



## Leonarfd (Apr 13, 2021)

domi said:


> Your Elise MK II review was great!
> 
> How's the Echo 2 doing so far? I hope you have good things to say as I'm very close to placing an order to pair it with my soon to arrive Aeolus


Can vouch for the Echo and Aeolus being very good pairing, going from a relaxing solid state the pairing with echo is just more full sounding. Some headphones just sound better with good tube amps .

Marcello said something about having a a first impression live stream soon(this week if I'm not wrong), sub to his YouTube channel and you can ask him when he is live.


----------



## domi

Leonarfd said:


> Can vouch for the Echo and Aeolus being very good pairing, going from a solid state even a more relaxing one the pairing with echo is more full. Some headphones just sound bvetter with good tube amps .
> 
> Marcello said something about having a a first impression live stream soon(this week if I'm not wrong), sub to his YouTube channel and you can ask him when he is live.


Thanks for letting me know it's a good pairing, I think I'll just get it! Subscribed to Marcello's channel


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 14, 2021)

domi said:


> Thanks for letting me know it's a good pairing, I think I'll just get it! Subscribed to Marcello's channel


Live stream this week!! Should be having two actually one on Friday and one on Saturday on different topics! One of course on the Echo Mk2. I will get the schedule updated with pictures tomorrow most likely.  Thanks for the sub and your support! @domi


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Apr 15, 2021)

Hey guys! (TIME UPDATED) Live Stream will be on Saturday, April 17th at 1 pm PT (Los Angeles)


Feliks Audio Echo MKII OTL Tube Headphone Amplifier First Impressions Live Stream



Hope to see you all in the live chat!!!

Much Love,

Marcello


----------



## Leonarfd

Will be there with my Echo glowing and feeding my Aeolus


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

Leonarfd said:


> Will be there with my Echo glowing and feeding my Aeolus


Awesome buddy!  I updated the time to 1 pm PT Los Angeles now to avoid cross-over with Headphonesdotcom crew.


----------



## domi

It was a great stream @MRphotography!

I received my Echo 2 a couple of days ago and so far I'm very happy  I currently have the 6XX and patiently waiting for my Aeolus to arrive.

I haven't finished burning in the stock tubes yet but found a great used pair of the Amperex 7308s and I couldn't resist


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

domi said:


> It was a great stream @MRphotography!
> 
> I received my Echo 2 a couple of days ago and so far I'm very happy  I currently have the 6XX and patiently waiting for my Aeolus to arrive.
> 
> I haven't finished burning in the stock tubes yet but found a great used pair of the Amperex 7308s and I couldn't resist


Glad you are digging it!!!!


----------



## regally

I'm planning an upgrade from my schiit stack for my HD800S and I heard OTL tubes were great with them. Is the Echo 2 a good pairing with them?


----------



## amiga505

hello, my first post here.

I am surprised to see people running low-impedance headphones from Echo, something like LCD-XC, which is 20 Ohms... I was told this would gradually damage the amp...


----------



## Louisiana

amiga505 said:


> hello, my first post here.
> 
> I am surprised to see people running low-impedance headphones from Echo, something like LCD-XC, which is 20 Ohms... I was told this would gradually damage the amp...


Hello, 
I'm born and raised in FFM 

Damage the Amp, because of... why?

Problem in my opinion with Planar Headphones and Echo: To me, it sounds absolute like my SS Amp, that's why i decide to sell my Echo some weeks ago.


----------



## Magol79

regally said:


> I'm planning an upgrade from my schiit stack for my HD800S and I heard OTL tubes were great with them. Is the Echo 2 a good pairing with them?


I would think so. My Auteur, which is a quite neutral headphone, sounds very good on the Echo mk I.


----------



## amiga505

Louisiana said:


> Hello,
> I'm born and raised in FFM
> 
> Damage the Amp, because of... why?
> ...



hi,

I'm recent import, originally from Kiev. glad to meet you 

honestly, I was told this on HiFiGuides Forum, the member there did not expand on the reason. but that, and the fact that it's not recommended by the manufacturer makes me think there must be something to it.


----------



## amiga505

ok, so I have Echo v1 for a few months now...

I originally wanted something to replace Loxjie P20 driving Meze 99 so that I could listen to the records from my hi-fi system in headphones, which I was not doing much that often until the point. I had swapped the tubes on Loxjie and changed the power block, and this setup was rocking, especially when I listened to hip-hop records. but now that I was listening to the headphones more often, I wanted something with a pre-out so I would not have to swap cables all the time, and to add that tubey touch to my main system sound. I was also going to look for a real thing, not the hybrid this time. this was how I settled on Echo and HD650 combo. so, no more cable swaps. as a preamp, the Echo makes audible, if ever so slight, difference in the system... and yet - I sort of expected it to be more pronounced, more tubey I guess. but okay, this is a preamp action, and Echo is essentially first and foremost a headphone amplifier. so, I guess as the sound, record spinning on turntable, coming through Cambridge Audio phono into Echo and out through HD650, I like it. it has certain kick to it. and in this, I suppose it fulfils the expectation. there is slight hum in the main system, but that is due to iffy grounding on the turntable, the affliction of Thorens TD203 I own. when run from a DAC, my Echo is silent.

then, just for kicks, I ran it AB with Cavalli LCX driving Verum v2 headphones. I was feeding Echo SE from SMSL SU-8 DAC while feeding the LCX via balanced from the same DAC. I was somewhat surprised to learn that the sound character was essential pretty much the same for both setups. the bass had more weight to it on Echo+HD650 but the bass was tighter, more controlled on LCX+Verums. I guess I learned what people mean by 'bloated' bass - this was how I would describe it on HD650. and there was this... grain I guess in the HD650 sound... is this the 'veil' people are writing about? sorry, this is my first time with HD650. well, I read that LCX has tubey sound, but this leaves me unsatisfied in this department - I'd like something with a more pronounced tube sound compared to LCX to run from DAC. what would that be? in EUR500-600 department? pre out would be welcome too. should I perhaps consider La Figaro 339i? and what headphone options I have? ZMF is unfortunately out of financial reach for me presently.

or maybe the tube swap on Echo would do it? any recommendations?


----------



## regally

Magol79 said:


> I would think so. My Auteur, which is a quite neutral headphone, sounds very good on the Echo mk I.


How would you describe their sound?


----------



## Magol79

regally said:


> How would you describe their sound?


With the Echo; powerful, full bodied, alive.


----------



## regally

Magol79 said:


> With the Echo; powerful, full bodied, alive.


Thanks for replying. What dac within the $500 range would you recommend?


----------



## Magol79

regally said:


> Thanks for replying. What dac within the $500 range would you recommend?


I don't have a good grasp on that particular market segment, but I know that Resolve thought highly of the SMSL SU-9. Schiit probably have good options too. Maybe ifi have something interesting. Matrix audio as well.


----------



## Leonarfd

Many good DACs now its hard to make a bad purchase really, would pick from a brand you like.


----------



## AudioDuck

Leonarfd said:


> Many good DACs now its hard to make a bad purchase really, would pick from a brand you like.


Agreed, and I’d also note that if you have experience with DACs with specific chip sets (AKM vs ESS Sabre vs R2R “ladder” DACs), consider what you liked vs not. 

For example, my experience with ESS Sabre models has been that they are quicker and more detailed, but my R2R Schiit DAC is more organic/fluid, but may lose a little detail in some cases. That said, differences are relatively small and come down to personal preferences! 

Until you get up pretty high in price point, there are *minor* trade offs. But indeed, the quality of DACs is very high now, even at budget price points.


----------



## Junglebook3 (May 9, 2021)

Did I miss a tube rolling guide for the Echo (mk2)? Where do I buy tubes in the first place, and which ones are good with the Echo? Also, do I roll both the power and driver tubes or only one of the pairs?


----------



## amiga505

qboogie said:


> By the way, here is an interesting trove of information providing more history and discerning characteristics of the 6DJ8/6922/7308 family of driver tubes that can be used with the Echo.
> 
> Also there is a section about how to spot counterfeits which will be important to anyone buying tubes from eBay or elsewhere.
> 
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm



although looking like something coming out of the HTML v.3 90s, that site is a trove of information. thank you and highly recommended.


----------



## RipVanWinkle1989

Hello guys, does anybody use the Echo with Focal Clear? Would like to learn their impressions.


----------



## Alien2085

RipVanWinkle1989 said:


> Hello guys, does anybody use the Echo with Focal Clear? Would like to learn their impressions.


Watch live stream from Marcello Rostagni on YouTube, he talks about Clear’s synergy.
I’ve got my Echo II two days ago and I enjoy all my headphones out of it, exclusive of HE6SE V2, they need more juice, but others are amazing!


----------



## AudioDuck

Alien2085 said:


> Watch live stream from Marcello Rostagni on YouTube, he talks about Clear’s synergy.
> I’ve got my Echo II two days ago and I enjoy all my headphones out of it, exclusive of HE6SE V2, they need more juice, but others are amazing!


Along those lines, I think Focals must generally work well with the Echos- my Echo (mark I) is a great pairing with my Elear and Radiance. I don’t honestly know why anyone would spend more, other than to upgrade the headphone cabling.


----------



## bvega18

I know it's not 100% the same but for what it's worth, the elex sounded a lot better on my echo v1. Just sounded more full and exciting.


----------



## azkkr

Has anyone tried the Echo (especially MKII) with all open-back ZMFs? I read a lot about its synergy with the Auteur and wondering if it also works well with the Aeolus and Verite Open. I am looking to build a system around the ZMF open back trinity and considering the Echo MKII as the main amp. The other options I am looking into are the Liquid Platinum and Hagermann Tuba (and maybe the Cayin HA-1A MK2). I have posted/will post a similar question in their respective threads, not to hijack this one. Any thoughts/suggestions are most welcome. Cheers!


----------



## Rebel Chris

bvega18 said:


> I know it's not 100% the same but for what it's worth, the elex sounded a lot better on my echo v1. Just sounded more full and exciting.


Does the echo 1 sounds better than echo 2? I was planning to buy the echo 2 because of the 3x RCA selector.


----------



## bvega18

Rebel Chris said:


> Does the echo 1 sounds better than echo 2? I was planning to buy the echo 2 because of the 3x RCA selector.


I have not tried the echo 2. I have looked at both of them and I would honestly doubt it. From what I've read and seen is that the only difference is the added RCA's. 



azkkr said:


> Has anyone tried the Echo (especially MKII) with all open-back ZMFs?


I own Aeolus along with an Echo v1 and they sound phenomenal together. I also have a pair of Atticus and they too sound great with the Echo.


----------



## M-83 (Jun 5, 2021)

Can anyone offer some insight into the differences between Vérité Closed and Atticus with Echo MK1?

I have Atticus and whilst I like it, I'm not certain it's the right ZMF headphone for me. I'm considering going all in with Vérité Closed and calling that my end game (if it's suited to me)

I mainly listen to EDM and complex electronica (with gorgeous low baselines), and I do like all sorts of music.

I used to have Denon D2000 but found the mid bass overbearing. I love my Alpha Prime planar headphones but they aren't suited to the Echo.

I like musical not analytical and slightly warm side of neutral and slightly darker.

Atticus isn't quite precise enough for the EDM and electronica and it's a bit too heavy on the mid bass and not enough with sub bass.


----------



## Leonarfd

M-83 said:


> Can anyone offer some insight into the differences between Vérité Closed and Atticus with Echo MK1?
> 
> I have Atticus and whilst I like it, I'm not certain it's the right ZMF headphone for me. I'm considering going all in with Vérité Closed and calling that my end game (if it's suited to me)
> 
> ...


The Echo is going to sound good with any of the ZMF headphones, personally I find both Atticus and Aeolus very capable with Electronica genres. 
VC gives you less mid bass, also are brighter and more analytical. 

I prefer not so detailed headphones with Electronica, unless its very well made.


----------



## M-83

Leonarfd said:


> The Echo is going to sound good with any of the ZMF headphones, personally I find both Atticus and Aeolus very capable with Electronica genres.
> VC gives you less mid bass, also are brighter and more analytical.
> 
> I prefer not so detailed headphones with Electronica, unless its very well made.


Ok interesting, thanks.  

I certainly do not like bright HPs.  I am new to OTL & ZMF - my reference is Mrspeakers Alpha Prime (currently with Modi Multibit & Lyr 2, though I have Gungnir Multibit & Mjolnir 2 on the way for the Primes).

Primes are warm side of neutral, slightly dark, resolving, gorgeous mids, sub bass reaches low but not overbearing and not fatiguing with highs.

I am not a fan of analytical or bright presentation.  Slightly warm & musical is what I enjoy.

Hearing the detail in some electronica sounds so good and I get the impression that Atticus is rather intimate and does not give much space to let the detail portray.

I've been recommended Verite Open over Closed.


----------



## Leonarfd

Never tried the Alpha Prime, been using the Mad Dog 3.2 for a long time. Fun headphone, rather dark and not as detailed or bright as Beyerdynamic and Hifiman models. The ZMF headphones I have tried has not been to analytical to my taste, tried the VO, Aeolus, Atticus and very briefly VC.

Fatuige is weird as I can handle highs from T1s and DT880, while the Atticus gives me fatigue. Probably to much midbass and its very intimate sounding, had the same problem with DT1990 PRO.  VO open is probably a smart way to go if your looking at this price bracket.


----------



## M-83

Leonarfd said:


> Never tried the Alpha Prime, been using the Mad Dog 3.2 for a long time. Fun headphone, rather dark and not as detailed or bright as Beyerdynamic and Hifiman models. The ZMF headphones I have tried has not been to analytical to my taste, tried the VO, Aeolus, Atticus and very briefly VC.
> 
> Fatuige is weird as I can handle highs from T1s and DT880, while the Atticus gives me fatigue. Probably to much midbass and its very intimate sounding, had the same problem with DT1990 PRO.  VO open is probably a smart way to go if your looking at this price bracket.



Thx for your message.  I had the Mad Dog 3.2 back in 2014, sold it and bought Alpha Prime.  The MD was a great HP, lots of fun like you say.  The primes are like a grown up Mad Dog 3.2, more neutral, more resolving, but really really sing.  Very musical.  I've never heard a HP that I like so much as the Primes.  The only thing I long for a little with the primes, are a touch more sub bass.  I have the Modhouse Argon Mk2, and it's good but the mids are sucked out and the mid bass is too much.

I prefer a slightly dark sound, as treble kills me.  Slight roll off is preferable.  I cant stand overly bright/thin HPs.

Thanks for sharing the guide above. Looks like the VO may be a good HP to try, if rather more costly than Atticus (and Prime).


----------



## Leonarfd

Have you tried any the Audeze(LCD 2 or LCD 2 Classic)? 
Reach very low in the sub bass, they are fast and detailed for technical music like metal or Psytrance(infected Mushroom). Not the best headphones with the Echo as the bass is not as controlled.


----------



## M-83

Leonarfd said:


> Have you tried any the Audeze(LCD 2 or LCD 2 Classic)?
> Reach very low in the sub bass, they are fast and detailed for technical music like metal or Psytrance(infected Mushroom). Not the best headphones with the Echo as the bass is not as controlled.


Funny you mention Audeze.  I had considered LCD 2 (pre fazor) but am put off my the fragility of the drivers, and I'd be gutted if they fail and the only option is to have a repair with fazor drivers.  Would spoil it for me I think.  I did have someone msg me but they didn't provide pics so the discussion did not progress any further.

Also, music such as Infected Mushroom is what I listen to (I was introduced to Infected Mushroom by one of my previous directors - he has great taste in music)


----------



## M-83

As I just said on another thread.... I love this community - I really appreciate the help, advice & assistance that people are so willing to provide.


----------



## CheerioCoil

Alien2085 said:


> Watch live stream from Marcello Rostagni on YouTube, he talks about Clear’s synergy.
> I’ve got my Echo II two days ago and I enjoy all my headphones out of it, exclusive of HE6SE V2, they need more juice, but others are amazing!


I've been eyeballing the Echo II for a couple days now. While I have looked at several reviews of the Echo I and many tout it as a decent tube amp for the budget-minded, I haven't found any reviews of it or comparisons to the Echo I and whether it is worth the extra $200-300. Could you add your thoughts on it?


----------



## azkkr

Hey guys. Did anyone get a chance to compare the MKI with the MKII? I've read somewhere that the main difference is the extra RCAs on the MKII but not much of anything else. Hard to believe especially since an honest company like Feliks bump the price significantly between the iterations. Any thoughts are most welcome. Thanks!


----------



## Alien2085

CheerioCoil said:


> I've been eyeballing the Echo II for a couple days now. While I have looked at several reviews of the Echo I and many tout it as a decent tube amp for the budget-minded, I haven't found any reviews of it or comparisons to the Echo I and whether it is worth the extra $200-300. Could you add your thoughts on it?


I bought Echo MKII and I haven’t heard MKI. On Feliks website it says:
“So, what is new?

Increased power output
Better pairing with low impedance/planar magnetic headphones 
Selectable 3 audio sources
More effective interference isolation
"Mute" function
Refreshed looks, more scratch and fingerprints resistant finish”


----------



## bvega18

Alien2085 said:


> I bought Echo MKII and I haven’t heard MKI. On Feliks website it says:
> “So, what is new?
> 
> Increased power output
> ...


That's good to know. I just did some searching and doesn't seem like the MKI isn't available to buy new anymore.


----------



## AudioDuck

bvega18 said:


> That's good to know. I just did some searching and doesn't seem like the MKI isn't available to buy new anymore.


Makes sense. Typically Mk I Echos sell for around $ 550 pre-owned. In my experience, there seems to be a LOT of bang for the buck around $750-1000 new and about half of that pre-owned. I suspect the cost for major improvements in sound quality would be significant. (And oddly enough, the point of diminishing returns seems to be around $ 1000-$ 1500, not too much higher)


----------



## rex4539




----------



## cspersel

ostewart said:


> Planars like lots of current, not what the Echo can do, even though it might sound ok it's not ideal for the Audeze. Also the high output impedance probably isn't a good match for your Signature DXP. You really need to try it with some high impedance dynamics for your review if possible
> 
> Yes my Espressivo MKII sounds ok with my HE-500's but it doesn't really drive them properly, however when driving my GMP400's it's a match made in heaven.


I also would have thought Audeze headphones don't pair well the Feliks Echo .. until .. I gave my son my Echo (I replaced it with a Euforia 20th Anniversary Special Edition) and he uses it with his LCD-2's (Fazor model). The synergy is, surprisingly, outstanding. An incredibly satisfying match. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to others.


----------



## M-83

Anyone have a good upgrade path from Echo?

I was considering Bottlehead Mainline but I fear it's too neutral and too similar to a solid state amp in terms of sound.

I use Echo with ZMF Vérité Open and listen to all sorts of music.


----------



## M-83

cspersel said:


> I also would have thought Audeze headphones don't pair well the Feliks Echo .. until .. I gave my son my Echo (I replaced it with a Euforia 20th Anniversary Special Edition) and he uses it with his LCD-2's (Fazor model). The synergy is, surprisingly, outstanding. An incredibly satisfying match. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to others.


Awesome. Echo also works very well with Kennerton Gjallarhorn.


----------



## JohanE

Just ordered myself an Echo mkII. Will pair it with my Hifiman Sundaras until I buy new headphones. 
I have a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ in my mainrig which I will replace with a Denafrips Pontus 2 which is on it's way. Ordered the Pontus 2 a week ago. 
Therefore I can sell the Mytek and finance new headphones. Have been eyeballing the Focal Clear.  
Any other suggestions around the same prize bracket? Or less expensive.


----------



## ARCXENOS

Hi All, I have the Feliks Echo Mk 1 variant, currently using it with my hd800s very well, but I am honestly tired of the 800s treble, may I know if I could use the focal clear with the mk 1 echo, or will it sound bad with it?

Or is there another headphone with more bass than the hd800s y'all can recommend? I heard planars are not good with the echo, so I am kinda limited in my options I think


----------



## Minkypou

ARCXENOS said:


> Hi All, I have the Feliks Echo Mk 1 variant, currently using it with my hd800s very well, but I am honestly tired of the 800s treble, may I know if I could use the focal clear with the mk 1 echo, or will it sound bad with it?
> 
> Or is there another headphone with more bass than the hd800s y'all can recommend? I heard planars are not good with the echo, so I am kinda limited in my options I think


it starts to get a bit more expensive but the ZMF Auteur would pair really well with the feliks here


----------



## rex4539

I have the Feliks Audio Echo Mark II paired with the Meze Audio 99 Classics and it's a match made in heaven.

The 99 Classics are known for their ability to reproduce bass.


----------



## ARCXENOS

Minkypou said:


> it starts to get a bit more expensive but the ZMF Auteur would pair really well with the feliks here


I actually got offered a trade a month ago for those, I regret declining the trade now  

But do you think it is worth the money if I were to get a new set? I was thinking of planars but I doubt I could get something decent to work with the echo mk1



rex4539 said:


> I have the Feliks Audio Echo Mark II paired with the Meze Audio 99 Classics and it's a match made in heaven.
> 
> The 99 Classics are known for their ability to reproduce bass.


I'll take a look at those, but I don't think there is a meze distributor near me sadly


----------



## bvega18

ARCXENOS said:


> I actually got offered a trade a month ago for those, I regret declining the trade now
> 
> But do you think it is worth the money if I were to get a new set? I was thinking of planars but I doubt I could get something decent to work with the echo mk1
> 
> ...


I know it's not 100 percent the same but I have an echo mk1 and it was a perfect match with the focal elex. I could only imagine it would be just as great with a clear.


----------



## ARCXENOS

bvega18 said:


> I know it's not 100 percent the same but I have an echo mk1 and it was a perfect match with the focal elex. I could only imagine it would be just as great with a clear.



Apparently there is a 30+ ohm difference in impedance, but it shouldn't matter too much right? 

I am hoping the build is similar, can anyone advise me if it should be ok?


----------



## Leonarfd

1/8th rule is not everything, some headphones can sound good with the high impedance out from the Echo. Still best pairings for me has been from Beyer, Senn and ZMF.


----------



## Alien2085

I bought LSA HP-1 recently (40 Ohms) and they sound fantastic on the echo MK II. I prefer it over Singxer sa1 personally. I saw at least one other post here and also a few on YouTube claiming that Kennertons pair surprisingly well with echo.


----------



## Dailydrive (Aug 8, 2021)

Used to tube roll Espressivo mk1 (should be similar to Echo), also tried BH crack w speedball & beyer A20. While each has their sound signature, the best enjoyment I had with my T1.1 600 ohm is from an old A/AB SS-power amp output to coaxial input of A20 & listen from there. Clean clear bliss with loads of headroom to hear details & musicality all round without needing to crank up the volume.
Although I never hear a HD800s as Im done with dynamic, I believed your sennheiser flagship should benefit greatly with sonic quality of class A/AB power amp (to a hdvd 800?) of a forgone era. So much so I see little use for my expressivo & BH speedball, plus I'm pulled away with my current setup that allows me to play 3 headsets (including T1.1) of diff nature at same time.

Some may wonder if a high level output of a power amp will fry a A20 with RCA input. I tried, at times 3-4 days in a row, and still sound good, better esp leaving my SS gear on for few days.


----------



## JohanE

Today it arrived! So far it sounds fantastic!


----------



## john2000

rex4539 said:


> I have the Feliks Audio Echo Mark II paired with the Meze Audio 99 Classics and it's a match made in heaven.
> 
> The 99 Classics are known for their ability to reproduce bass.


Have you tried any other headphones with echo?


----------



## rex4539

I did not have a chance to try anything else but perhaps I may be able to sometime in the future.


----------



## JaquesGelee (Aug 30, 2021)

ARCXENOS said:


> Hi All, I have the Feliks Echo Mk 1 variant, currently using it with my hd800s very well, but I am honestly tired of the 800s treble, may I know if I could use the focal clear with the mk 1 echo, or will it sound bad with it?
> 
> Or is there another headphone with more bass than the hd800s y'all can recommend? I heard planars are not good with the echo, so I am kinda limited in my options I think


I would recommend to test some Grado or even the BD DT 880 600 Ohm Version or a HD6XX. The Meze 99 is good, but bass heavy itself. therefore rather a matter of taste.


----------



## greenblured

Changed my powetubes due to slight intermident crackling heard when no music playing. This where stock Novosibirsk 1972 stamped single getters. Rolled in non matched same year (1968) Novo.double getter stands. No more crackling,... but the sq is imo better. Calmer, more liniar in the FR, maybe slightly rolled of in the very top highs. Less fatiguing, smouther sound without loosin detail, punchier in the low end without bloom. 
Who knows, maybe the old pair was at the end of its tether. This are standar 6n6p's. Used the amp ca a year now. Have a pair of 6h30N-EB sovteks but have not dared to test them being they are a little out of speck.
Anybody tested 6h30N with the Echo mk1?


----------



## JaquesGelee (Sep 10, 2021)

I would say, looks ok....

...enjoy music


----------



## Jlink18

JaquesGelee said:


> I would say, looks ok....
> 
> ...enjoy music


Are those the Shipibo audio pads shown in the photo?? Been curious as to how they sound and have been considering getting a pair for my vintage RS1's


----------



## JaquesGelee (Sep 10, 2021)

Jlink18 said:


> Are those the Shipibo audio pads shown in the photo?? Been curious as to how they sound and have been considering getting a pair for my vintage RS1's


Hey,

the ones above are from beautifulaudio. I like the Shipibo Cushions a lot. Sound is a subjective personal taste, also depends to the cans (driver).
But i recommend them with no doubt.

There you are:


----------



## erics75

Just joined the Echo MK2 ranks yesterday  I can't give any meaningful impressions yet as I've only spent maybe 4 hours with it. But out of box gut reaction was really positive. Love the look and feel of it. Running it from my Bifrost 2 and using the Auteur last night, it sounded excellent. Bass was full and tight. Treble had lots of extension, with no excessive roll off. Great soundstage, on par with my Pendant SE and Ovation. Warmer than both of those, but not by a large margin. Very tasteful tuning for sure. I have it here at work now and am looking forward to it being my work tube amp with my Clear OG and Auteur/Atticus. My only complaint is with the Auteur I can only get to maybe 9am on the volume dial before it gets too loud. Reminds me a lot of my OG Pendant, just too much gain for ZMFs. But no channel imbalance to note, so it's not a big deal at all.


----------



## Alien2085 (Sep 14, 2021)

erics75 said:


> Just joined the Echo MK2 ranks yesterday  I can't give any meaningful impressions yet as I've only spent maybe 4 hours with it. But out of box gut reaction was really positive. Love the look and feel of it. Running it from my Bifrost 2 and using the Auteur last night, it sounded excellent. Bass was full and tight. Treble had lots of extension, with no excessive roll off. Great soundstage, on par with my Pendant SE and Ovation. Warmer than both of those, but not by a large margin. Very tasteful tuning for sure. I have it here at work now and am looking forward to it being my work tube amp with my Clear OG and Auteur/Atticus. My only complaint is with the Auteur I can only get to maybe 9am on the volume dial before it gets too loud. Reminds me a lot of my OG Pendant, just too much gain for ZMFs. But no channel imbalance to note, so it's not a big deal at all.


Thank you for your post here! Can’t wait to hear more of your comparisons to ampsandsound amps. They stand tall and out of reach for many, so if my echo mk II can take me close to those giants I’ll be ecstatic!


----------



## erics75 (Oct 13, 2021)

It's been about a month with the Echo MK2 and I've enjoyed it immensely. I keep it at work where I listen most of the day paired with a Holo Cyan PCM in NOS mode for a dac. Headphones used mainly are a Focal Clear and Radiance, and a ZMF Atticus and Auteur.

First things first the Focals are surprisingly good on it! I was worried the impedance mismatch would make them too bloated, but that hasn't been the case. Yes the bass elevates a bit, but it's still very well controlled and fast.

Second, I did not like the stock tubes much. I found them to have a slight glare in the upper mids/lower treble that I found annoying. It wasn't too much that I couldn't listen, or encounter too much fatigue. But I kept thinking the Echo was lacking a bit of refinement. After purchasing some random Russian NOS power tubes, and a pair of Butt Ugly Amperex input tubes from Brent Jessie, things are sounding much better. The power tubes sounded a touch better, but nothing significant. But those butt uglies really cleaned up the sound to my liking. Gone is the glare that was bothering me. Now it's smooth, yet still detailed and responsive. Anyone with stock tubes that feel the Echo isn't up to snuff might want to roll input tubes, it's very responsive to them.

So with the new tubes I'm really enjoying the Echo. The tone is just north of neutral, without sounding slow or thick or syrupy. Overall tonal signature is pretty natural sounding, with good heft and weight on each note. Resolution is good, I have no complaints. But I have noticed my Ampsandsound amps are more resolving by a small but noticeable margin. I personally don't care as much about resolution so it doesn't bother me at all, but detail heads might take note.

What impresses me the most about the Echo is it's overall macro performance. Without focusing on any area in general, how does it sound as a whole, when you stop focusing on little things, and just listen to the music. And in this regard the Echo for me is excellent with the NOS tubes. It's musical, engaging, and totally enjoyable. It handles all genres well, from fast chaotic metal to slow Jazz and Folk/Americana. Staging is adequate. It's spacious enough, though not as big as my Ampsandsound amps. But the gap isn't significant at all, IMO.

So, what do you gain doubling or quadrupling the cost of the Echo and going with a Pendant SE or Kenzie Ovation? First off I noticed the Ampsandsound amps (AS going forward) add more refinement and technical performance. Resolution goes up, and is most noticeable when using highly resolving headphones like a Verite Closed or Focal Clear. The stage grows in all direction, taller, wider, and deeper, with better dimensional placement of each instrument. Also, the whole frequency response is more organic and integrated on the AS amps. The Echo is well balanced, but I do note it boosts the bass a bit over the AS amps, and also isn't as smooth in the upper mids, causing me to focus on them when comparing. The AS amps give you a response that is more even from top to bottom. I don't focus on any area as standing out, or sounding off. Overall you just gain a higher overall performance level with the AS gear.

Lets put things in perspective though, those amps run many times the cost of the Echo. So how far off is the Echo? That's going to be subjective, with each person having their own answer. For me, the gap is not huge, and I feel perfectly satisfied with the Echo as my main work amp. I could bring the Pendant SE to work, but it's bigger and has a higher noise floor. The Echo is good enough that I no longer need the Pendant SE in my lineup. I'm selling it. I love my Ovation so that won't go anywhere yet. Maybe once I get my DNA amp next year. We'll see...

Does the Echo do anything better than the AS amps? Yes against the Pendant, no against the Ovation. The Echo is a very quiet amp. I get no tube noise whatsoever. The Pendant is not quiet. With the right tube combo it's relatively quiet, and acceptably quiet for me. But it's not as quiet as the Echo, not even close. My Ovation currently is also very quiet, matching the Echo. But it took a few rolls with the 1626 power tubes to find quiet ones. The noisy tubes were either too vibration sensitive, or would pick up too much RFI. I've only rolled the stock tubes and one NOS set, but all tubes so far on the Echo have been super quiet. Also from a form factor perspective, I like the Echo's smaller size and weight, and traditionally configured inputs/outputs, meaning you plug them in vertically, not horizontally. The AS amps all have downward inserting inputs/outputs. It looks odd to me, and puts more pressure on the sockets and cables, IMO. That's totally subjective on my part, but I like what I like.

Any nitpiks? Sure, the gain is too high! With all my ZMFs and Focals, I'm never able to go past 9oclock on the volume knob without blowing my eardrums out. Would love to see a gain switch to allow more use of the volume knob. Thankfully I hear no channel imbalance at any point on the volume knob. I'd also love to see nicer wood panels on the sides. They're not bad looking, but they're not great looking either. Very bland and pedestrian. I'm sure I'm just spoiled by the super nice woods ZMF and AS uses on their units, but the Echo looks too plain to my eyes. Finally, I'd love to see taller feet used underneath. The Echo runs hot, as most OTLs do, and venting is important. Unfortunately the Echo uses really shallow feet on the unit, which does look nice sitting low to the ground, but doesn't help venting. I have some silicon risers I use on other equipment and started using them on the Echo. It did make an improvement to the venting of the unit, decreasing the chassis temp slightly but noticeably. I'm sure the stock feet and operating temps are fine, but IMO the cooler the better.

So bottom line, the Echo is a super solid amp that fares well even against bigger, badder amps like AS. For those looking for a killer tube without breaking the bank, put the Echo on your audition list. Please note I do not have any planars in house right now so all testing has been with either efficient medium ohm Focals, or high ohm ZMFs. It drives those with ease. I don't know how it handles planars, so do your homework before buying.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention on the AS amps is they have multiple output taps with different impedances, which allow for more tweaking of the sound to your liking. The Pendant SE gives you two, 8 and 100 ohm. The Ovation gives you five: 8, 16, 32, 100, and 300ohm. The Ovation allows a very high degree of sound tweaking with all those output impedances. That is one aspect where spending more can be worthwhile depending on how much you value the extra outputs. For me personally, the Ovation's five taps are a godsend in terms of synergy and mood. There are certain headphones that just synergize really really well on certain taps. For example the Clear on the Ovation's 32ohm tap is excellent for me. Going to 8, 16, or 100 just doesn't sound right in comparison. Mood plays a factor too, and especially with high ohm headphones like ZMFs, which work great on all impedance taps. Sometimes I want my Auteur to be very neutral and honest sounding. When I do, I go with the 8 ohm tap. But sometimes I want warmth, without switching to the Atticus, and I go with the 100 or 300ohm taps. Totally different presentation depending on the tap you choose. I wasn't going to mention it when I remembered, but thought I'd be doing everyone a disservice to not do so. It's something you do miss out on with the Echo. Just food for thought and another aspect to consider when choosing equipment.


----------



## bvega18

Thank you for all of this. As someone who owns VCs I was always curious about the comparison between my echo and the AS amps. I've always wondered if it was worth the price jump and honestly I'm happy I went with my gut and never made the jump. I too have always been very satisfied with my echo. Still exploring with tubes. @erics75 I have been really interested in that Holo cyan you are using. You wouldn't happen to know where I could find a used one for sale? 😉


----------



## erics75 (Oct 13, 2021)

bvega18 said:


> Thank you for all of this. As someone who owns VCs I was always curious about the comparison between my echo and the AS amps. I've always wondered if it was worth the price jump and honestly I'm happy I went with my gut and never made the jump. I too have always been very satisfied with my echo. Still exploring with tubes. @erics75 I have been really interested in that Holo cyan you are using. You wouldn't happen to know where I could find a used one for sale? 😉


I love the Cyan! It's a great intro into the Holo sound, and just a great dac/amp in it's own right. The amp section is very decent. It makes a great all in one if you want a high performance all in one. Unfortunately they don't show up used often. If you're interested in one i'd create a wanted listing, you might get some hits. I've had great luck with the wanted listings and hard to find items.


----------



## Alien2085 (Oct 13, 2021)

erics75 said:


> It's been about a month with the Echo MK2 and I've enjoyed it immensely. I keep it at work where I listen most of the day paired with a Holo Cyan PCM in NOS mode for a dac. Headphones used mainly are a Focal Clear and Radiance, and a ZMF Atticus and Auteur.
> 
> First things first the Focals are surprisingly good on it! I was worried the impedance mismatch would make them too bloated, but that hasn't been the case. Yes the bass elevates a bit, but it's still very well controlled and fast.
> 
> ...


Thank you vm for the great write up. We don’t see such comparisons often if at all for the Echo II. May I ask if you feel that spending $250 on a pair of Butt Ugly Amperex were fully justified? I believe that’s the price, at least this is what I can see online. I’m still using stock tubes with my LSA HP-1 planar headphones and not sure if I will make out the difference after the upgrade.


----------



## erics75

Alien2085 said:


> Thank you vm for the great write up. We don’t see such comparisons often if at all for the Echo II. May I ask if you feel that spending $250 on a pair of Butt Ugly Amperex were fully justified? I believe that’s the price, at least this is what I can see online. I’m still using stock tubes with my LSA HP-1 planar headphones and not sure if I will make out the difference after the upgrade.


I paid with tax/shipping about $85 for the pair. The price on Jessie's site is for a matched pair ($69.00 pre tax/shipping). And IMO totally worth it. It took the Echo from an amp I like but was considering selling, to an amp I really like, and now am letting my Pendant go as the Echo is good enough for my needs. Yeah the Pendant is better, but given it's a work system and I'm not always concentrating on the music, not worth the cost premium. For my preferences, the butt uglies are worth every penny. I would say if budget is an issue but you can swing the butt uglies, get them and skip the power tube upgrade. I found the difference in the power tubes to be much much smaller.


----------



## erics75

Question for Echo owners. Is there a way to adjust the gain on the amp by running different tubes? Like for the Pendant you can run 12AU7, 12AX7, and 12AT7 input tubes, and they all had different gain factors (mu?). I ask as I'm barely using the volume knob with my Focals and ZMFs. Would love to run less gain and use more of the knob range. I know I can run attenuators to lower the input signal, but I hate those long things in the back putting a lot of leverage pressure on the jacks.


----------



## Alien2085

erics75 said:


> I paid with tax/shipping about $85 for the pair. The price on Jessie's site is for a matched pair ($69.00 pre tax/shipping). And IMO totally worth it. It took the Echo from an amp I like but was considering selling, to an amp I really like, and now am letting my Pendant go as the Echo is good enough for my needs. Yeah the Pendant is better, but given it's a work system and I'm not always concentrating on the music, not worth the cost premium. For my preferences, the butt uglies are worth every penny. I would say if budget is an issue but you can swing the butt uglies, get them and skip the power tube upgrade. I found the difference in the power tubes to be much much smaller.


Awesome. I’m going to order them now - 6DJ8 correct? Many thanks!


----------



## erics75

Alien2085 said:


> Awesome. I’m going to order them now - 6DJ8 correct? Many thanks!


Yes, that's correct. Hope you like them! Brent is a super awesome guy, if you're after a specific sound signature, email him and let him know your amp, the tube types it takes, and what you want from it, he might have different suggestions. I wanted a slightly darker tone with less treble energy and more smoothness (less glare) so the butt ugly amperex were a good choice for me.


----------



## GGSuperMe

I’m still in the early days of running the Echo II but I’m absolutely loving it.

The unfortunate part is that it’s so quiet that I’m picking up emi from my wall outlet. Using a power conditioner but it only reduces it a little. In another outlet in the house the emi disappears completely so I know it’s not the unit or the tubes.

I have a pair of Reflector 6H23P-EB (premium) from the tube store coming in this week. Not cheap but I decided to try it. I’ll provide my thoughts about it after I give them a good run.

This amp is a huge upgrade from my Jot 2. It’s great with my clear mg’s but absolutely amazing with my Pioneer SE Monitor 5. This echo and monitor get about 95% of the play time.


----------



## Wes S

erics75 said:


> It's been about a month with the Echo MK2 and I've enjoyed it immensely. I keep it at work where I listen most of the day paired with a Holo Cyan PCM in NOS mode for a dac. Headphones used mainly are a Focal Clear and Radiance, and a ZMF Atticus and Auteur.
> 
> First things first the Focals are surprisingly good on it! I was worried the impedance mismatch would make them too bloated, but that hasn't been the case. Yes the bass elevates a bit, but it's still very well controlled and fast.
> 
> ...


Good stuff!  Curious what tubes you use in the Pendant?  I can get mine slamming with bass, or even bass light depending on the tubes.  With certain tubes, the bass can hit so hard, it feels like someone is punchy me in the side of the head, which is even too much for this basshead.  Also, with the right tubes in the Pendant, I can get the noise floor just about dead silent.  I love the versatility of tubes, and a good tube amp.  

One of these days, I would love to hear the Echo, with some 12A_7 tubes and adapters. . .


----------



## erics75 (Oct 14, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Good stuff!  Curious what tubes you use in the Pendant?  I can get mine slamming with bass, or even bass light depending on the tubes.  With certain tubes, the bass can hit so hard, it feels like someone is punchy me in the side of the head, which is even too much for this basshead.  Also, with the right tubes in the Pendant, I can get the noise floor just about dead silent.  I love the versatility of tubes, and a good tube amp.
> 
> One of these days, I would love to hear the Echo, with some 12A_7 tubes and adapters. . .


I don't know the years of production but they're all NOS: I was using an RFT rectifier, Amperex power tubes, and a Baldwin 12AU7. This combo was the quietest I had, and also the warmest and most musical. A great overall sound signature that worked with all my ZMFs. Still had a bit of noise with the high Z and VC, but it wasn't enough to bother me.

The Echo is a fun little amp. I love it's small size and form factor. It can't match the Pendant in outright performance, but it's close enough for my work purposes that I'm ok moving on from the Pendant. Since i'm half listening while I work, I honestly don't notice the performance gap at all. The one thing the Echo does well is it's very musical like the Pendant, so for half listening it's great. At home though where I do more focused listening, I would stick with an A&S amp for sure. That's where my Ovation comes into play. I adore that thing, so musical and engaging. I saw another user posted some decent looking adapters so I'll likely pick those up and run some 12AU7 tubes in the Echo to see how those sound.


----------



## bvega18

If someone does find a good adapter, please don't hesitate to share all the links. I would love to try some 12au7's. I'm actually looking at trying out a set of Electro-Harmonix 6922EH's. Does anyone have any experience with these?


----------



## erics75 (Oct 14, 2021)

bvega18 said:


> If someone does find a good adapter, please don't hesitate to share all the links. I would love to try some 12au7's. I'm actually looking at trying out a set of Electro-Harmonix 6922EH's. Does anyone have any experience with these?


Post # 8612 has a link to what looks like a really good set. This weekend i was going to do a bit of research and maybe buy a pair. The main thing will be verifying if an adapted 12AU7 will work electrically with the Echo. I'm a total noob with tubes so i'm not even sure how to check that other than emailing Feliks directly.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/att...phones-from-zmf.821782/page-575#post-16611309


----------



## blackdragon87

looking to buy one of these for my zmfs


----------



## MacMan31

I wonder how an Echo would compare to my Schiit Valhalla II?


----------



## blackdragon87

MacMan31 said:


> I wonder how an Echo would compare to my Schiit Valhalla II?



curious to know as well.lol


----------



## GGSuperMe

Well, trying to review a set of tubes isn't easy, but I do love the Reflector 6H23P-EB and I'll leave a short comment about them. It's not a warm sounding tube, leaning towards the solid state a little, but it's very detailed in the base and mids. Creates a beautiful sound stage. I recommend them, but I only have the Vokshod 6n1p and the stock 6n1p's that came with the amp. They sound much warmer and are less detailed.


----------



## gibby

I bought a used “as is” Echo mark 2 a while ago and just recently received my Aeolus.  Now the amp has developed quite a buzz.  Mostly with the 6DJ8 "Butt Ugly" Amperex Bugleboy tubes.  I’ve smacked them a bunch and they keep buzzing away.  I’ve now gone back to the stock tubes and most of the noise is gone, but there is still a constant low volume buzzing.  I wonder if power tubes or a new RCA cable would help.  The buzz goes away when I switch on the mute on the amp.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Mine did buzz because of the wifi router near it (1.5m away). Try move it around. 

Other option is to leave the amp on for a couple of hours, the tube will burn in and the buzz will disappear. Hopefully this will work.


----------



## gibby

It's not from wifi.  I have gone back to the stock tubes and the cracking is gone from the defective tubes that I will be returning.  I'll move the amp away from everything I can to see if the buzzing continues.  It happens with two different pairs of headphones too.  So much for buying used.  I might reach out to Feliks to see if they have any input.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Oké, most likely defective tubes if the hum is gone after using the stock tubes. 

Whiches tubes did you use instead of the stock ones?


----------



## gibby

The hum is there with stock tubes.  The crackling is gone now after replacing a pair of tubes I bought with the stock tubes.


----------



## Poganin

Possible ground loop? I had that with the mk. 1 Echo.


----------



## gibby

Poganin said:


> Possible ground loop? I had that with the mk. 1 Echo.


Yeah, I was going to try it away from other devices to see if it goes away.  It was dead silent when I got it.


----------



## gibby (Nov 16, 2021)

Got it sorted out I think.  I had it plugged into a power strip.  It’s now plugged in directly and it’s back to dead silent less hum.  I’ll try those tubes again and report back.


----------



## MacMan31

So on headphones.com the Echo is listed as "final sale". Does that mean the Echo is being discontinued or updated?


----------



## JaquesGelee

MacMan31 said:


> So on headphones.com the Echo is listed as "final sale". Does that mean the Echo is being discontinued or updated?


Nah, just read the description of "Final Sale". It only means No option to return the item.

Echo MK II Update hasn't been long time ago. But i don't know what Feliks Audio has in Entry-Level Pipe.


----------



## MacMan31

JaquesGelee said:


> Nah, just read the description of "Final Sale". It only means No option to return the item.
> 
> Echo MK II Update hasn't been long time ago. But i don't know what Feliks Audio has in Entry-Level Pipe.



Okay cool. Well I am very curious about this amp. But with exchange rate, shipping, taxes and any customs fees it would be over $1200 Canadian. That's fairly steep. It is really worth the price? I could use the same tubes as I have now for the Schiit Valhalla 2.


----------



## Deleeh

MacMan31 said:


> Okay cool. Well I am very curious about this amp. But with exchange rate, shipping, taxes and any customs fees it would be over $1200 Canadian. That's fairly steep. It is really worth the price? I could use the same tubes as I have now for the Schiit Valhalla 2.


Have you look to upscaleaudio.com on his webside?
He sent to canada and the Us.


----------



## MacMan31

Deleeh said:


> Have you look to upscaleaudio.com on his webside?
> He sent to canada and the Us.



I have heard of them but have not checked there. Same price as headphones.com.


----------



## Deleeh

MacMan31 said:


> I have heard of them but have not checked there. Same price as headphones.com.


Hello,
I just looked it up.
Feliks is selling it for €800 which is just under $900 at the current rate.
That's about right.
The rest is due to VAT and customs duties in the respective country, which has no influence on it.

With a bit of luck it will pass through customs, which happens more often than you think, but it remains a game of luck.
Sometimes you can talk to various traders and they will declare the contents but with a much lower price.
But not all of them do.
The alternative is to look in Canada or even find one on the second-hand market where it can be worthwhile.

Otherwise you have to swallow the bitter pill or look for something else.


----------



## jdaeira

I am currently running a Jot 2/Bifrost 2 combo primarily with my ZMF Aeolus. How much of a difference in sound would I hear with this AMP compared to the Jot 2? Never tried a tube AMP before, but would like to hear the difference as I keep reading that the ZMF Aeolus sound magical with Tube AMP's. Would appreciate any thoughts.


----------



## MacMan31

jdaeira said:


> I am currently running a Jot 2/Bifrost 2 combo primarily with my ZMF Aeolus. How much of a difference in sound would I hear with this AMP compared to the Jot 2? Never tried a tube AMP before, but would like to hear the difference as I keep reading that the ZMF Aeolus sound magical with Tube AMP's. Would appreciate any thoughts.



I don't have this particular tube amp although I am considering it. I have the Schiit Valhalla 2 with aftermarket tubes. It sounds quite good with my Aeolus and of course HD6XX. My tubes would also work in the Echo so if I switched I would not have to get all new tubes.


----------



## snapple10

Good day,
Google let me down , instruction manual did not have anything for me, hoping for input from current users

New to me Echo I ( stock tubes,I think) is noticeable louder on one side of headphone vs the other side . Any idea what could be going on? 

What I have tried
Connected DAC to different amp to eliminate it and RCA cable as problem ( RCA into in of amp) 
Switched three different headphones

Thank you in advance for your input


----------



## Poganin

Does this happen at all volumes? At low volume on the pot this is normal, it should even out when you turn the volume pot up.
However, in the case of certain headphones (LCD-3, Atticus) this channel imbalance persists in my case until volume is at 12. I'm guessing this amp delivers a rather low current, which in the case of more power hungry headphones results in channel imbalance until you turn it up. Obviously, to be able to use it at listenable levels, you'll have to turn the volume down at your source.


----------



## GGSuperMe

snapple10 said:


> Good day,
> Google let me down , instruction manual did not have anything for me, hoping for input from current users
> 
> New to me Echo I ( stock tubes,I think) is noticeable louder on one side of headphone vs the other side . Any idea what could be going on?
> ...


Sounds like one of your tubes is weaker. From what I understand that if the left and right tubes aren't matched well then this can happen. Try swapping your tubes. If the volume imbalance switches to the other side then it's the tubes.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
Try changing the tubes.
The tube that is plugged into the left socket should be plugged into the right socket and vice versa.

This may help.
If you have the same problem in the other ear, it is possible that one of the tubes is slowly wearing out.

Have you noticed any milky spots on the tube?
If so, it is time for a replacement.

If not, you can still look around for a replacement.


----------



## snapple10

Thank you for taking time out help
 I will try switching tubes. I do listen at low volume, so, will try turning volume up. 
Was using Focal Clear and HD650.


----------



## snapple10

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Try changing the tubes.
> The tube that is plugged into the left socket should be plugged into the right socket and vice versa.
> 
> ...


Didn’t notice any milky spots but will double check.It is a beautiful looking amp


----------



## snapple10

I am so grateful for your help, 
problem solved by switching tubes. Thank you


----------



## Deleeh

Who do you mean now? 💁🏼‍♂️😁💁🏼‍♂️😁


----------



## snapple10

Deleeh said:


> Who do you mean now? 💁🏼‍♂️😁💁🏼‍♂️😁


What is that? I don’t get it 😩


----------



## jdaeira

MacMan31 said:


> I don't have this particular tube amp although I am considering it. I have the Schiit Valhalla 2 with aftermarket tubes. It sounds quite good with my Aeolus and of course HD6XX. My tubes would also work in the Echo so if I switched I would not have to get all new tubes.


Thank you for your thoughts. Which aftermarket tubes are you using?


----------



## snapple10

letting go Feliks Audio Echo I , if anybody is interested . I purchased Echo II, I don’t need both
Thanks


----------



## carps

Hello guys. Newbie here so please excuse my question.
I have an Echo 2 on the way and I plan to drive the ZMF Auteur with it. I plan to pair it with my Hugo2 as DAC but I'M just wondering if it is possible to connect it to my DAP (specifically AK SE 180) as transport and DAC? 
Thank you so much in advance.


----------



## bvega18

carps said:


> Hello guys. Newbie here so please excuse my question.
> I have an Echo 2 on the way and I plan to drive the ZMF Auteur with it. I plan to pair it with my Hugo2 as DAC but I'M just wondering if it is possible to connect it to my DAP (specifically AK SE 180) as transport and DAC?
> Thank you so much in advance.


I don't see why not. All you would need would be a 4.4 balanced to rca cable. Here's an example.


----------



## carps

Thank you so much. I will try that one out.


----------



## jclyle (Feb 19, 2022)

UPDATE: I swapped messages with a US retailler, and they advised that using 12Axx adapters would void warranty. Experiment at your own risk 




erics75 said:


> Question for Echo owners. Is there a way to adjust the gain on the amp by running different tubes? Like for the Pendant you can run 12AU7, 12AX7, and 12AT7 input tubes, and they all had different gain factors (mu?). I ask as I'm barely using the volume knob with my Focals and ZMFs. Would love to run less gain and use more of the knob range. I know I can run attenuators to lower the input signal, but I hate those long things in the back putting a lot of leverage pressure on the jacks.


@erics75 or anyone else....

Has anyone tried the 12Axx adapters with the Echo II? I have a pair with my Valhalla 2, and really want to give this amp a try.

If someone wants to sell me their Echo II to experiment, I'd be happy to take it off your hands


----------



## erics75

jclyle said:


> UPDATE: I swapped messages with a US retailler, and they advised that using 12Axx adapters would void warranty. Experiment at your own risk
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have not, sorry


----------



## jclyle

Velozity said:


> Got an Echo recently.  I know some people have had success using 12AU7 in place of 6922 in other applications, so I decided to take a spin on that with my Echo.  But instead of the dual-triode 12AU7 I'm using two single-triode 6C4.  There is a large and growing following of users of the 6C5/6J5 in place of 6SN7 and this is the same idea.  Using two single-triodes in place of their double-triode equivalent has proven to be a significant sonic upgrade in every case.  I asked @Deyan make some adapters, which would be the first of their kind.  I haven't seen 6C4-to-6922 adapters anywhere else.  It sounds wonderful as expected.  I'm still evaluating and will post more impressions and comparisons in the near future.  I have many 6C4 tubes to roll!  I would imagine Liquid Platinum owners might be interested in this as well.




Did you ever try 12Axx adapters in your Echo?


----------



## GGSuperMe

jclyle said:


> UPDATE: I swapped messages with a US retailler, and they advised that using 12Axx adapters would void warranty. Experiment at your own risk
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How would they be able to know that someone used tubes not approved by Feliks?


----------



## Deleeh

It's kind of admirable to see, and strangely enough it's the same with every Feliks amp, that people prefer to spend their money on tube adapters and buy tubes for them.
But the Feliks amplifiers are quite simple and you can get more out of them with a capacitor swap.
Of course, the warranty is void, but this way you stay within the specifications of the amplifier for which it was intended.
Without damaging the internal components by unnecessarily stressing the amplifier with adapters.
I would like to see the inside of the amplifier if it is as simple as the Elise and Euforia series.
I have never seen or found one.


----------



## Danger

Rebel Chris said:


> Mine did buzz because of the wifi router near it (1.5m away). Try move it around.
> 
> Other option is to leave the amp on for a couple of hours, the tube will burn in and the buzz will disappear. Hopefully this will work.


That just fixed my buzzing issue.  Moved my router.  So nice to have a black background back.  Thought my tubes were bad.  Thanks.


----------



## rex4539




----------



## gazzington

What tubes could I get for my echo 2 to make it more tubey?


----------



## carps

Sorry for another newbie question. Couldn't seem to find a concrete/direct answer in the internet. 
So I have my echo 2 for a a month now with the Hugo2 as the source via line level out. I've read that the line level out of the Hugo 2 is at 3V. Is this compatible with the Echo 2 (should it be just 2 or 2.5V)? Does it even matter? I tried connecting my Ak SE180 DAP directly to the echo 2 an the line level out has options such as 2-2.5-3 so it kept me wondering. I mean I'm loving what I'm hearing out of the pair and I just want to make sure that I'm not damaging my equipment.
Thank you so much in advance


----------



## rex4539

carps said:


> Sorry for another newbie question. Couldn't seem to find a concrete/direct answer in the internet.
> So I have my echo 2 for a a month now with the Hugo2 as the source via line level out. I've read that the line level out of the Hugo 2 is at 3V. Is this compatible with the Echo 2 (should it be just 2 or 2.5V)? Does it even matter? I tried connecting my Ak SE180 DAP directly to the echo 2 an the line level out has options such as 2-2.5-3 so it kept me wondering. I mean I'm loving what I'm hearing out of the pair and I just want to make sure that I'm not damaging my equipment.
> Thank you so much in advance


Why don't you write directly to Feliks Audio and ask?


----------



## Deleeh

carps said:


> Sorry for another newbie question. Couldn't seem to find a concrete/direct answer in the internet.
> So I have my echo 2 for a a month now with the Hugo2 as the source via line level out. I've read that the line level out of the Hugo 2 is at 3V. Is this compatible with the Echo 2 (should it be just 2 or 2.5V)? Does it even matter? I tried connecting my Ak SE180 DAP directly to the echo 2 an the line level out has options such as 2-2.5-3 so it kept me wondering. I mean I'm loving what I'm hearing out of the pair and I just want to make sure that I'm not damaging my equipment.
> Thank you so much in advance


Hello,
You would be 0.5 v over with the setting of 3 V. Nothing happens.
It would be more critical if more than 5 V were to go through, I guess.
As a rule, they can cope with more and are set in such a way that if more goes through, it doesn't shoot everything to pieces straight away.

In your case I see a tendency that it will lead to clipping.
So a crosstalk, slight scratching, unclean...
Make sure that you don't use the full power with the Dap then it should work without clipping.
You will find out the point of death where clipping occurs over time. When you find it, reduce the volume on the Dap a little and everything will be fine again.


----------



## carps

Thanks so much for the information sir


----------



## Deleeh

No problem 😉,you are welcome 👍✌️


----------



## carps

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> You would be 0.5 v over with the setting of 3 V. Nothing happens.
> It would be more critical if more than 5 V were to go through, I guess.
> As a rule, they can cope with more and are set in such a way that if more goes through, it doesn't shoot everything to pieces straight away.
> ...


So I did this today. 
Set the Hugo 2 to about 50% volume (Teal) and the volume of the Echo 2 to around 10 o'clock driving the ZMF Aoelus.
Previously Hugo2  set to line level mode (Lilac) and the volume of the Echo 2 between 8 to 9 o'clock
I am not sure if this is just mental but it the sound is a lot more natural. It sounded as if the music just flows effortlessly, more mature (?). Compared to the previous setting, I felt that everything is cramped/even forced into my head. I'm not even sure if I'm making sense here since I'm really new to the headphone scene.
I guess I have to try playing around with the settings some more to get to my sweet spot.


----------



## Xerosnake90 (Mar 27, 2022)

So the manual on the website states they're using 6n6p power tubes? Are these replaceable with anything else considering the whole russian thing we have going on here? Going to be hard to come by

Also, what's everyone's favorite driver tube? I'm so overwhelmed with my first tube amp and there being so many tubes to choose from. I liked the stock tube sound (really warm and full, good bass) and also have Amperex 7308 which are a bit more dry though many say these are the things of legend lol


----------



## bvega18

If you need replacements locally, I've bought some from vivatubes with great results. To me they sound better than stock tubes. These here. Hope this helps.


----------



## jclyle (Mar 28, 2022)

Has anyone tried 6CG7 or 7DJ8 in the Echo MK1? Both of those types work fine in my Valhalla 2.
Upscale has a firm opinion of only using 6922 with the Ech.


----------



## Xerosnake90

jclyle said:


> Has anyone tried 6CG7 or 7DJ8 in the Echo MK1? Both of those types work fine in my Valhalla 2.
> Upscale has a firm opinion of only using 6922 with the Ech.


The manual states you can use E88cc, 6N23p, 6dj8, and 6922.

Not sure why they recommend those, maybe the amount of voltage they can push?


----------



## Deleeh

The data for the 6CG7 
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6cg7.html

I used one in the Vali 2 back then.
Here are the data:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6922.html

The difference seems to be that it uses 0.3 amps less than the 6cg7.
Now the question is where is the total amp limit for the amplifier?
You should not exceed that.
With the 6922 I understand the statement of Upscale, because it is a common tube with a lot of choice, and really are not bad.
They have a nice lush sound.


----------



## jclyle

Xerosnake90 said:


> The manual states you can use E88cc, 6N23p, 6dj8, and 6922.
> 
> Not sure why they recommend those, maybe the amount of voltage they can push?


Too clarify, Upscale advises to use only the tubes listed in manual. The 7DJ8 and 6CG7 are tempting to roll into the amp....


----------



## Deleeh

The 6cg7 would probably work if the total ampere is not exceeded.
Since you need 2, that would be 1.2 amps. since one tube uses 0.6 amps.
If the other 2 tubes use 0.8 amps each, that makes a total of 1.6+1.2 amps.
Let's say the Echo could handle a maximum of 4 amps, you would just be in there as an example.

With the Feliks Elise/Euforia it's 6 or 7 amps where you can go, then it's over.

Some people go with different adapters and use different tubes and stay within this ampere limit.
But Feliks does not recommend it and says himself that the tubes are to be used where they are approved in the manual.
Because this also voids the warranty and the amplifier is not designed for this.
So if you do it, you do it at your own risk.

If you don't like the 6922 or if it doesn't fit, you can always consider replacing the capacitors with the same values.
The added value would probably be greater than chasing after expensive tubes while the 6922 is still affordable.


----------



## jdaeira

bvega18 said:


> If you need replacements locally, I've bought some from vivatubes with great results. To me they sound better than stock tubes. These here. Hope this helps.


I just plugged these in. Not burned in yet. These seem more airy than the stock power tubes. Need more time with them, but I might prefer the stock tubes. Time will tell.


----------



## Mau10 (Apr 6, 2022)

Xerosnake90 said:


> So the manual on the website states they're using 6n6p power tubes? Are these replaceable with anything else considering the whole russian thing we have going on here? Going to be hard to come by
> 
> Also, what's everyone's favorite driver tube? I'm so overwhelmed with my first tube amp and there being so many tubes to choose from. I liked the stock tube sound (really warm and full, good bass) and also have Amperex 7308 which are a bit more dry though many say these are the things of legend lol


I have been a Feliks Echo II Owner since a year ago. At first I spent all the burn in process with the stock tubes and really liked it. After about 6 months of use, one of the tubes was producing some noise (buzzing) and that got me looking for replacements. After some research I found a matched pair of NOS 6922/E88CC Tungsrams. I was a bit reluctant to spend $150 usd in tubes for a sub $1000 amp without knowing how much It could improve. Finally I decided to do so, and I couldn’t be more happy with this little amp, It took the Echo to another level. If this amp has a very low noise floor… now is dead quiet, and even when the included 6n1p have good dynamics and good sound overall, this Tungsrams show how much the Echo can scale up with better tubes. After observing the positive results of the exercise, I found a matched pair of phono grade 6922 Phillips Jan tubes apparently made by Silvania, for half the price of the Tungsrams with similar results just with their own “flavor”.

UPDATE: A few moths ago I purchased the pulse tubes 6922/12axx adapter:

https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

I have been so happy listening to 6922/E88cc Tungsrams that I kept those adapters in a box for a while. A few days ago, I was curious about the sound of the 12a*7 tubes in the Echo. To make a good a comparison between tubes, I plugged to the adapters a pair of 12au7 Tungsrams made in the same country (Hungary) and apparently same factory produced in 1980 vs 1979. The intention of this exercise was to compare characteristics of the E88CC/6922 family vs 12a*7´s in the Echo, trying to keep the minimal possible variables. To my ears 12au7´s staged much bigger due to better separation, more textured base, organic mids and a nice controlled treble. Mostly in the 8k and 9k band, that in some tracks using the Verite and Aeolus as reference, can show a bit of sibilance using the 6922. Overall even when the 6922 sounds really good, describing it as precise, linear and Dynamic. To me the 12au7´s delivered some qualities I've listened in higher end equipment, taking the Echo one more step up.

At the end the Feliks was built for the 6n1p/6822/E88cc tubes, and I don't know how much my system synergy or personal preference can influence this findings, but they were significant and evident to me. I think that so many audio companies were using 6922 family tubes in their entry level products as an alternative to the rising prices of 12a*7 tubes in past years, that has produced the opposite in the present tube market, making the 6922 more expensive when looking for NOS.

Even with this actual price madness, is not that hard to find very nice NOS 12au7s at affordable prices like this:

https://www.tctubes.com/Sylvania-12AU7A-organ-stock-matched-pair.aspx
or
https://www.tubemonger.com/Funkwerk_RFT_70s_ECC82_Halo_Extra_Supp_Tesla_MIL_p/794a.htm
by example.

NOTE: I tried some 12aT7 and 12ax7 tubes and they didn't work as good as the 12au7. It seems that the gain is too high producing a subtle audible distortion and weird volume ranges.


----------



## jdaeira

Mau10 said:


> I have been a Feliks Echo II Owner since a year ago. At first I spent all the burn in process with the stock tubes and really liked it. After about 6 months of use, one of the tubes was producing some noise (buzzing) and that got me looking for replacements. After some research I found a matched pair of NOS 6922/E88CC Tungsrams. I was a bit reluctant to spend $150 usd in tubes for a sub $1000 amp without knowing how much It could improve. Finally I decided to do so, and I couldn’t be more happy with this little amp, It took the Echo to another level. If this amp has a very low noise floor… now is dead quiet, and even when the included 6n1p have good dynamics and good sound overall, this Tungsrams show how much the Echo can scale up with better tubes. After observing the positive results of the exercise, I found a matched pair of phono grade 6922 Phillips Jan tubes apparently made by Silvania, for half the price of the Tungsrams with similar results just with their own “flavor”.
> 
> UPDATE: A few moths ago I purchased the pulse tubes 6922/12axx adapter:
> 
> ...


Have you tried any different power tubes? The 6N6P. If so then where did you get them? I got some from Viva Tubes, but I found them a little too bright for my taste.


----------



## Mau10 (Apr 6, 2022)

jdaeira said:


> Have you tried any different power tubes? The 6N6P. If so then where did you get them? I got some from Viva Tubes, but I found them a little too bright for my taste.


I got a matched pair of 6n6p red tips that are supposed to be higher spec, but they didn't make much difference, compared to the tubes included in the Echo MKII.
 Those included tubes, the ones of Vivatubes and the red tips were made by Novosibirsk and aside of some extra labels they look identical.
 I have been in the search for the "Foton" 6n6p. The getters and the micas of those look very different to the Novosibirsk, perhaps those may produce a different sound ( not necessary better). They used to be very inexpensive and are still announced on e-bay but this Russian seller is away. There are some red tips and Foton's at crazy prices on sites like tubemuseum, but I wouldn't buy at those prices.
Aren't your Vivatubes identical to those included in your Echo?
If you feel that your Viva tubes are brighter, it can be that they are in the need of some burn in.


----------



## jdaeira

Mau10 said:


> I got a matched pair of 6n6p red tips that are supposed to be higher spec, but they didn't make much difference, compared to the tubes included in the Echo MKII.
> Those included tubes, the ones of Vivatubes and the red tips were made by Novosibirsk and aside of some extra labels they look identical.
> I have been in the search for the "Foton" 6n6p. The getters and the micas of those look very different to the Novosibirsk, perhaps those may produce a different sound ( not necessary better). They used to be very inexpensive and are still announced on e-bay but this Russian seller is away. There are some red tips and Foton's at crazy prices on sites like tubemuseum, but I wouldn't buy at those prices.
> Aren't your Vivatubes identical to those included in your Echo?
> If you feel that your Viva tubes are brighter, it can be that they are in the need of some burn in.


I saw those red tips on the tubemuseum site the other day. I thought they are at a ridiculous price right now. Not sure if the 6N6P from Vivatubes are identical to the stock ones. I think you are right that they might need some burn in. Only used them for about 3 hours and then switched back to the stock tubes. Might give them another try and let them burn in for a longer period of time. I guess I just got impatient 😀


----------



## Mau10 (Apr 6, 2022)

jdaeira said:


> I saw those red tips on the tubemuseum site the other day. I thought they are at a ridiculous price right now. Not sure if the 6N6P from Vivatubes are identical to the stock ones. I think you are right that they might need some burn in. Only used them for about 3 hours and then switched back to the stock tubes. Might give them another try and let them burn in for a longer period of time. I guess I just got impatient 😀


The easiest way to identify this tube varieties and many more is by looking at the plate shape and size, and the structure holding the getter plus the getter itself. by example, the previous mentioned Foton's have a square getter Vs a disk getter of the Novo's.

The 6n6p tubes are actually good in my experience, the ones that tend to be a bit inferior and noisier are the Voshkod rockets 6n1p compared to the 12au7's and the E88cc/6922.

In this link there are some 6n6p variants that I have been able to find:

https://tubes-store.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=ecc99

Unfortunately the foton's are out of stock.

This tube may work, but I haven't found much info about it:

https://tubedepot.com/products/jj-ecc99-rf-double-triode-preamp-vacuum-tube

It has a slight higher mu and anode resistance but the pins and the 6.3 volt filament are the same. (Not sure that it will produce a positive change in the quality of sound)

Maybe someone in the forum have tried them and can provide some guidance.


----------



## jdaeira (Apr 6, 2022)

Mau10 said:


> The easiest way to identify this tube varieties and many more is by looking at the plate shape and size, and the structure holding the getter plus the getter itself. by example, the previous mentioned Foton's have a square getter Vs a disk getter of the Novo's.
> 
> The 6n6p tubes are actually good in my experience, the ones that tend to be a bit inferior and noisier are the Voshkod rockets 6n1p compared to the 12au7's and the E88cc/6922.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. They pretty much look identical except that the stock getter has only one little rod going to the spacer whereas the vivatube has a rod on each side of the getter going to the spacer. Other than that I can't see any differences.


----------



## Mau10 (Apr 6, 2022)

jdaeira said:


> Thanks for your input. They pretty much look identical except that the stock getter has only one little rod going to the spacer whereas the vivatube has a rod on each side of the getter going to the spacer. Other than that I can't see any differences.


This is going to sound nerdy LOL... but just for the sake of tube rolling, It looks that that The 6n6p Novosibirsk's started to be produced with only one rod after a period between 79-80. there is a number in the label after a small pentagon or @. That is the year of manufacture of the tube.  It is very possible that your Viva's are made by the same factory as the stock tubes, just from another batch maybe newer or older.
 Update: Apparently pentagons are older, and @´s are newer.
http://www.ominous-valve.com/russtube.html


----------



## greenblured

I have roled 5 different pairs of 6n6p on my Echo V1. 
Best:Foton 1961 box plate anode
Good:Foton 1962 square getter millitary tested
They have a smoother sound than the 70´s 6n6p. A russian seller on Ebay told me that red tip means that the tube was retested after storage. Military tested is indicated by a letter/digit code.
I paid 71$ on Ebay from a seller from Kazakhstan for the box plate anode pair. (listed for 99$)


----------



## Mau10

greenblured said:


> I have roled 5 different pairs of 6n6p on my Echo V1.
> Best:Foton 1961 box plate anode
> Good:Foton 1962 square getter millitary tested
> They have a smoother sound than the 70´s 6n6p. A russian seller on Ebay told me that red tip means that the tube was retested after storage. Military tested is indicated by a letter/digit code.
> I paid 71$ on Ebay from a seller from Kazakhstan for the box plate anode pair. (listed for 99$)


Cool, now I know why those "red tips" sound identical to the regular tubes. I'll be looking forward to find those Foton´s, hopefully the box plates. Thanks.


----------



## MacMan31

So I finally got an Echo MKII. I will be comparing it with my BottleHead Crack. Most likely I will be keeping both and selling my Schiit Valhalla 2 and Lyr 3.


----------



## IvanE92

Hi, MacMan! What are your thoughts on the Echo MK2. Going back and forth between that and the Lyr3 for my OG Clears.


----------



## jonathan c

I can tell you from direct experience / longtime ownership that Lyr 3 (with 6SN7 tube / pair 6J5 tubes and adapter) matches _very well_ with  Clear O/G. If you prize clarity, detail, dynamics, expressiveness, soundstage…that pairing is one to reckon with.


----------



## IvanE92

jonathan c said:


> I can tell you from direct experience / longtime ownership that Lyr 3 (with 6SN7 tube / pair 6J5 tubes and adapter) matches _very well_ with  Clear O/G. If you prize clarity, detail, dynamics, expressiveness, soundstage…that pairing is one to reckon with.



Would Woo Audio or Feliks be an upgrade from the Lyr3 for Focal Clear OGs.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Depends which model you are after.


----------



## IvanE92

Rebel Chris said:


> Depends which model you are after.


 ECHO MK2 or Woo WA6 (or used WA2)


----------



## jonathan c

IvanE92 said:


> Would Woo Audio or Feliks be an upgrade from the Lyr3 for Focal Clear OGs.


(private message)


----------



## Deleeh

Yes would it ✌️👍


----------



## gibby

I listed my Echo MKII.  Going back to portable.


----------



## Spee2k

Does anyone have experience connecting the Feliks echo to a preamp?
I'm considering hooking it up to a NAD C700


----------



## Mau10

Spee2k said:


> Does anyone have experience connecting the Feliks echo to a preamp?
> I'm considering hooking it up to a NAD C700


I've connected my echo to my MA8900 when I need a remote volume function or when I want to listen to Vinyl. There are a couple of different ways to connect your echo, depending of you objective. The echo can be used to add tube sound to your chain, or to be used as a headphone amp using a source with a volume control.

If you are looking to use your C700 as a source, you can connect any of the echo's Inputs  to the "pre out" of your c700. You should decide which of the two volume controls you are going to use.


----------



## Spee2k

Mau10 said:


> I've connected my echo to my MA8900 when I need a remote volume function or when I want to listen to Vinyl. There are a couple of different ways to connect your echo, depending of you objective. The echo can be used to add tube sound to your chain, or to be used as a headphone amp using a source with a volume control.
> 
> If you are looking to use your C700 as a source, you can connect any of the echo's Inputs  to the "pre out" of your c700. You should decide which of the two volume controls you are going to use.


Thanks. Yes, i'm looking to use the C700 as a source/transport with the Echo. Will be using the C700 for volume control .


----------



## Mau10 (Aug 19, 2022)

Spee2k said:


> Thanks. Yes, i'm looking to use the C700 as a source/transport with the Echo. Will be using the C700 for volume control .


In that case:
After you set the interconnects and select "pre amp" output in your C700. ( be sure that you are not sending power to your speakers)....Then you can turn your C700 volume near to max and turn the Echo's volume knob at the Maximum safe volume you may use with your most demanding headphones and non compressed songs. ( The echo's volume knob will work as a Volume limiter ). And then turn down the volume of your C700 to your normal listening level of preference.
From there you use the C700 volume control for regular use, and make small adjustments into the echo, if you need more or less output power.

You can do the opposite and set the Echo,s volume near to max and lower the volume in the C700, But your noise floor will be higher, it may be dangerous and blow your HP or eardrums if you forget to set down the volume in your C700. In my opinion  "NOT RECOMMENDED".


----------



## Spee2k

Mau10 said:


> In that case:
> After you set the interconnects and select "pre amp" output in your C700. ( be sure that you are not sending power to your speakers)....Then you can turn your C700 volume near to max and turn the Echo's volume knob at the Maximum safe volume you may use with your most demanding headphones and non compressed songs. ( The echo's volume knob will work as a Volume limiter ). And then turn down the volume of your C700 to your normal listening level of preference.
> From there you use the C700 volume control for regular use, and make small adjustments into the echo, if you need more or less output power.
> 
> You can do the opposite and set the Echo,s volume near to max and lower the volume in the C700, But your noise floor will be higher, it may be dangerous and blow your HP or eardrums if you forget to set down the volume in your C700. In my opinion  "NOT RECOMMENDED".


Wow great info here buddy !
 I'm just going to be using headphones at the moment with the C700.


----------



## Mau10

Spee2k said:


> Wow great info here buddy !
> I'm just going to be using headphones at the moment with the C700.


Enjoy !


----------



## TheR0v3r

Deleeh said:


> It's kind of admirable to see, and strangely enough it's the same with every Feliks amp, that people prefer to spend their money on tube adapters and buy tubes for them.
> But the Feliks amplifiers are quite simple and you can get more out of them with a capacitor swap.
> Of course, the warranty is void, but this way you stay within the specifications of the amplifier for which it was intended.
> Without damaging the internal components by unnecessarily stressing the amplifier with adapters.
> ...


Please tell me more about capacitor swap. Any ideas on what to swap to?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Feliks Echo 2 totally rocks, they made some rather big improvements to the sound. Aesthetically, you can barely tell them apart, but in sound, man, I'm happy to report Feliks has been working hard to give us even better sonics!


----------



## gazzington

Dobrescu George said:


> Feliks Echo 2 totally rocks, they made some rather big improvements to the sound. Aesthetically, you can barely tell them apart, but in sound, man, I'm happy to report Feliks has been working hard to give us even better sonics!


It’s a great amp. I’ve been using it with hd650 mostly. Just bought a used beyerdynamic t1 2nd Gen to use with it


----------



## Deleeh

TheR0v3r said:


> Please tell me more about capacitor swap. Any ideas on what to swap to?


Hello,
Unfortunately, I haven't seen the inside of the Echo 2.
I strongly suspect that Mundorf capacitors were installed there.
Probably the cheapest ones from Mundorf.
If so, they can certainly be replaced with something better.
It always depends on which manufacturer offers which specifications.
Since I haven't seen the inside of an Echo 2 yet, I can't say which capacitor would be good in terms of values.
I have been looking for a picture of the implementation of the Echo for a long time.


----------



## TheR0v3r

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> Unfortunately, I haven't seen the inside of the Echo 2.
> I strongly suspect that Mundorf capacitors were installed there.
> Probably the cheapest ones from Mundorf.
> ...


Thank you, appreciate the pointers 🙏


----------



## Rayon (Oct 25, 2022)

Just received my 2nd hand Echo 2 to live with it for a while. It's now in between of Focal Utopia and Holo May KTE. I'm comparing it to SparkoS Aries.

Initial impressions:
* Pairs well with Utopia
* Did not pair so well with Sony MDR-Z1R
* Does not hiss
* Frequency response feels nicely balanced
* Bass is authoritative, but not blooming (which is good, I remember Euforia having blooming bass)
* Detail retrieval 80% of Aries (this doesn't matter and kind of hides itself when listening to music, but is clearly there if I listen about it)
* Clarity 85% of Aries (not at all veiled, very nice performance, Aries just is like a window to music, Echo surprised me positively in this)
* Space 75% of Aries (this where I feel like I'm losing most, the difference is quite big with my setup, probably has something to do with detail retrieval as I can't hear the quiet distant sounds)
* Tube magic that Aries doesn't have (why I bought an OTL tube and in the first place, otherwise Aries fills all my needs)
*  Wins Aries in many electronically produced music that would be "artificially clean" otherwise and brings those into life (examples: Röyksopp, Arrival soundtrack)
* Loses to Aries in basically all acoustic music (jazz, rock, some pop etc)

Overall, I definitely would recommend as 1) one's first tube amp 2) to key role in mid-fi setups or 3) complement amp to TOTL systems where one has some other "reference" amp. I would _not_ build otherwise TOTL setup around it, because Echo would become a bottle neck. Echo would be at home in something like Qutest->Echo->HD800S.


----------



## Leonarfd

The Utopia is borderline right impedance with what the Echo is suited for, many tube amps are better suited for low impedance headphones. Z1R even lower impedance, the damping factor is really bad. The Echo is made for high impedance Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, ZMF etc.

Had a mini meet last winter, tried out the pendant and WA 6 besides the Echo. Half of us prefered the ZMF Verite and Aeolus out from the Echo, though this is gen 1. The Pendant was brilliant Low Z and High Z, i was very thorn on what I preferred tbh. 

Depending on what your after, the soundstage and overall sound is great with some high end models with high impedance and then it doesn't bottleneck.


----------



## r343

I use Echo Mk2 with Utopia and like the pairing, headphone retains rather clean nature with subtle mellowing of treble, there is added bass, sweeter vocals but nothing too drastic.

Owning Cayin HA-A1 MK2 too and i think its more heavy coloring of sound with heftier bass, more stretched out images or instruments sizes and darker / smoother treble, kinda thicker sounding but not as clean.

Really haven't decided which amp is better because they are somewhat different and headphones matter.

With Echo + Utopia i focus singer and instruments kinda 50/50 but with Cayin and its darker treble singer becomes more center of show.


----------



## Yoram Diamand

r343 said:


> I use Echo Mk2 with Utopia and like the pairing, headphone retains rather clean nature with subtle mellowing of treble, there is added bass, sweeter vocals but nothing too drastic.
> 
> Owning Cayin HA-A1 MK2 too and i think its more heavy coloring of sound with heftier bass, more stretched out images or instruments sizes and darker / smoother treble, kinda thicker sounding but not as clean.
> 
> ...


I have a Feliks Euforia and the Utopia headphones are a dear wish, I hope to buy them as soon as possible second hand.


----------



## r343 (Oct 27, 2022)

Yoram Diamand said:


> I have a Feliks Euforia and the Utopia headphones are a dear wish, I hope to buy them as soon as possible second hand.


Go for it! Utopia from matching tube amp is really tough to beat if looking for impressive (not laidback) sound but not easiest headphone to pair with tube map, couple things to note.

- Sensitivity is very high so there is risk of hearing amplifiers noise floor if its not low enough, Echo Mk2 is totally silent in this case.
- Bass might get too boosted and go over the top bloaty.
- As well treble could become too murky and made Utopia sound "nerfed", this was case with cheaper Loxjie P20.


----------



## GGSuperMe

Rayon said:


> Just received my 2nd hand Echo 2 to live with it for a while. It's now in between of Focal Utopia and Holo May KTE. I'm comparing it to SparkoS Aries.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> * Pairs well with Utopia
> ...


The stock input tubes aren't great. If you haven't it will lead to significant improvements in the sound. That being said. If you tube rolled already then the Sparkos is an impressive amp. Always wanted to get it.


----------



## roderickvd

I am considering getting a Felix Echo 2. Does anyone know if its capacitors can be rolled? Would anybody be so kind to make a picture of its insides?

The other OTL that I am considering is an xDuoo TA-26 at less than half the price of an Echo. Aesthetics aside, it has better THD and power too.

Suggestions welcome. I will be pairing with high-Z Beyers, a 250 ohm Amiron Home and 600 ohm T1.2.


----------



## Mau10 (Oct 29, 2022)

GGSuperMe said:


> The stock input tubes aren't great. If you haven't it will lead to significant improvements in the sound. That being said. If you tube rolled already then the Sparkos is an impressive amp. Always wanted to get it.


Totally agree, the Echo MkII sounds really good with the stock tubes, but that is just a taste of what the Echo can do when using good NOS.
It's good that Feliks Audio chose "decent" tubes to include in the stock Echo, that kept the price low and allow the user to decide what to do for tube rolling. 
Some of this suitable NOS tubes, sell for a significant percentage of the total cost of the unit, however, to my ears the difference can be night and day.
One of the least expensive options are the  Phillips/sylvania's  6922, (much better than the included tubes)
If you are looking for better transparency, dynamics, tonal balance and slam. (6922 Tungsrams and Amperex are excellent).
Amperex 7308's have been mentioned in the threads as some of the best sounding tubes for the Echo, but I haven't tried them unfortunately.
Even though the stock power tubes are not a problem at all, A member from this thread recommended me the "Foton 6n6p" to add warmth with no transparency loss, and if you like that sound, they work well.


----------



## roderickvd (Oct 29, 2022)

Thanks guys. I already have a great SS amp which is exactly why I’m going for an OTL, something different. I owned a TA-20 hybrid before and did not care for it even after rolling some tubes. 

Tube availability is a good criterion. Should be good for both the Echo and the TA-26 I think?

The caps on the TA-26 can’t be upgraded because there is no room in the chassis. Would be great if someone had a picture of the Echo’s innards to share!


----------



## Leonarfd

Anyone tried the more modern TAD-6922?


----------



## Leonarfd

About to order a violin for the wife and the TAD-6922 is in stock on the same site.  Got bummed on the last pair tubes I bought dying after 20 hours usage.


----------



## Deleeh

The Tads are Chinese Shuang tubes, unfortunately.
So nothing special, unfortunately.
They are made by the German manufacturer according to their specifications, but unfortunately there is nothing more to it.

There are better ones on the new stock market than the Tad.

For me, the issue of tube availability has also become more important as an Euforia owner.
There are some tubes that are good but no longer available, sold at inflated prices when they are available.

That can hurt sometimes, unfortunately, but otherwise a very good amplifier.

I would stay away from Chinese amplifiers like Xudoo Darkvoice.
The electrical side is very questionable and also not of particular quality.


----------



## Mau10 (Oct 30, 2022)

roderickvd said:


> Thanks guys. I already have a great SS amp which is exactly why I’m going for an OTL, something different. I owned a TA-20 hybrid before and did not care for it even after rolling some tubes.
> 
> Tube availability is a good criterion. Should be good for both the Echo and the TA-26 I think?
> 
> The caps on the TA-26 can’t be upgraded because there is no room in the chassis. Would be great if someone had a picture of the Echo’s innards to share!


Unfortunately I have no idea about the caps used on the Echo, nevertheless I wouldn't bother to change them since the Echo performs well above it's pricetag when using NOS. Friendly advice, if you are interested in an Echo, give it a try with good tubes, and then if you feel that something is missing, walk the path of cap upgrade. I believe that many audiophiles (including myself), have had at some point a wrong bias/lesser expectations due to the low price of the Echo. To my ears, as a long term user, the only trade off regarding the pricepoint of the echo were the input tubes.
https://www.tubemonger.com/Tungsram_E88CC_6922_NOS_NOV_1979_MILITARY_HUNGARY_p/1094.htm

The tubes of the link are a treat on the Echo at a very acceptable price. There are some more expensive 68's in the same site, I have a pair of both and the difference is minimal. (Those are true nos, and need at least 50 hrs of burn in)


----------



## roderickvd

Thanks again for your recommendations. 

Just want to leave here that I owned and modded an Xduoo TA-20 before and that was very well built electrically. Certainly better than an Icon HP8 for example which is three times the price and a margin that must be incredible, because the design is really basic and the components of OK quality — nothing more.

That’s why I’m also interested to see what the Echo is made of internally.


----------



## r343

roderickvd said:


> Thanks again for your recommendations.
> 
> Just want to leave here that I owned and modded an Xduoo TA-20 before and that was very well built electrically. Certainly better than an Icon HP8 for example which is three times the price and a margin that must be incredible, because the design is really basic and the components of OK quality — nothing more.
> 
> That’s why I’m also interested to see what the Echo is made of internally.


Had TA-20 too before, my problem with TA-20 was that it sounded literally same as solid state amp, it was almost impossible to tell it apart from such.
With big maybe there was slight softening in treble but i am not sure.

Echo Mk2 is definitely different sound.


----------



## roderickvd

Could not agree more. No more hybrids for me.


----------



## Deleeh

Hybrid amplifiers should not be compared with otl or transformer coupled or similar, these are 2 different types of amplifiers.
3 if you count SS.

The hybrid amplifiers are 50:50 SS and tubes roughly speaking and there are good ones that work wonderfully with planar headphones or the ideal amplification is for planar headphones.

On my Euforia amplifier with the Lcd 2 versus my hybrid amplifier I notice clear differences tonally.
The bass effect on the hybrid amplifier is clearly more present than on the Euforia.
On the other hand, the midrange and treble end is clearly better on the Euforia.
When hybrid amplifiers are well tuned, planar headphones are usually a corner ahead of dynamic headphones.

I suspect that the Echo will have 2 Mundorf capacitors.
You can certainly replace them with Vcaps CuTf or Odam's.
The Euforia was also equipped with standard Mundorf capacitors and I replaced them with TFTF on the 6SN7 socket and Odam on the 6as7g.


----------



## Rayon

Deleeh said:


> Hybrid amplifiers should not be compared with otl or transformer coupled or similar, these are 2 different types of amplifiers.


I agree 100%. And then! Tube amps further divide into SET (Single Ended Triode) vs Push Pull.

Some info:
https://www.x3mhc.no/dokumenter/SE-v-PP-Part1.pdf
https://www.x3mhc.no/dokumenter/SE-v-PP-Part2.pdf


----------



## blackdragon87

i have a gen 1 and i cant find the answer in the manual. is it best to turn on the amp and wait a few minutes for the amp and tubes to warm up before plugging in the headphones in

thank you


----------



## Mau10 (Nov 13, 2022)

blackdragon87 said:


> i have a gen 1 and i cant find the answer in the manual. is it best to turn on the amp and wait a few minutes for the amp and tubes to warm up before plugging in the headphones in
> 
> thank you


In my experience... From the device longevity or functional standpoint, you should't be concerned. If you turn the unit "on" with the headphones connected, you will notice all the clicks and cracks that the tubes produce while warming up, and also as you may know, you can notice the increase of the volume as the tube heaters come alive. However, subjectively the Echo will start to sound "right" after about 5 mins of warming up at least. That being said, you should never leave a a cable connected to a headphone amp if that cable in turn is not connected to a headphone; that applies if you are starting your unit or in regular usage. If you are switching headphones while using the same cable, always unplug the amp end of the cable (1/4 TRS) before disconnecting the headphones end.


----------



## MacMan31

Okay so I have tube adapter for 12Axx to ECC88 tubes. Can I use any 12Axx type tube with the adapter in the Echo Mk2?


----------



## Rayon (Nov 25, 2022)

GGSuperMe said:


> The stock input tubes aren't great. If you haven't it will lead to significant improvements in the sound. That being said. If you tube rolled already then the Sparkos is an impressive amp. Always wanted to get it.


Just to double check: people talk about bad "input tubes". Are input tubes == driver tubes? Also what would be the best currently produced option for a replace? I generally tend to prefer current production over NOS (firstly I don't want to fall in love with something that may be hard to get in future and secondly I want to support tube producers).

EDIT: Confident enough to proceed, will try these as my first tube roll ever 

https://www.jjtubes.eu/e88cc-6922-gold

It got quite good reviews here: https://www.thetubestore.com/jj-e88cc-6922-gold


----------



## GGSuperMe

Rayon said:


> Just to double check: people talk about bad "input tubes". Are input tubes == driver tubes? Also what would be the best currently produced option for a replace? I generally tend to prefer current production over NOS (firstly I don't want to fall in love with something that may be hard to get in future and secondly I want to support tube producers).
> 
> EDIT: Confident enough to proceed, will try these as my first tube roll ever
> 
> ...


That is correct. Driver tubes is what I was referring to. I was tube rolling nos so I don't have much advice to provide regarding current production tubes. All I can say is the difference from 6N1P tubes was very significant when it came to clarity (resolution?).


----------



## jclyle

Rayon said:


> Just to double check: people talk about bad "input tubes". Are input tubes == driver tubes? Also what would be the best currently produced option for a replace? I generally tend to prefer current production over NOS (firstly I don't want to fall in love with something that may be hard to get in future and secondly I want to support tube producers).
> 
> EDIT: Confident enough to proceed, will try these as my first tube roll ever
> 
> ...


Did you get the JJ's? I need to upgrade the stock tubes, and these are an attractive option.


----------



## Rayon

jclyle said:


> Did you get the JJ's? I need to upgrade the stock tubes, and these are an attractive option.


They are on the way. Will get those probably next week.


----------



## little dot

Loving my Echo mk2. Being fed by a ta zh1es dac amp.


----------



## Leonarfd

I had a dilemma the last year I've had the Beyerdynamic A 20. High output impedance and sounding in the middle of a tube amp like Echo and a typical solid state amp. Due to this I haven't bothered with using the Echo as much as I want.  

Sold it off now, and flipped it selling it for the doable.

What's people's favorite or recommended Tubes for Echo? Under 200-300$ a pair.

Prefer smooth sound that is not thin sounding.


----------



## Rayon

Leonarfd said:


> What's people's favorite or recommended Tubes for Echo? Under 200-300$ a pair.


Just as a side comment: for me at least one of the reasons behind my purchase decision on Echo was that tubes are not super expensive. 200-300$ sounds like a lot for Echo's tubes. I'd understand if we were talking about 300B amp 

I just bought pair of brand new gold pinned JJ E88CCs for 60€ a pair and based on what I've read, those should already be quite good. Personally _my intuition_ says that I would spend my money better on more expensive amp vs. unicorn tubes for Echo. Some well seasoned Echo owners feel free to correct me if I'm underestimating the capabilities of Echo.


----------



## Leonarfd (Dec 4, 2022)

Tried two different pairs under 100, both were worse than the stock tubes. One had imbalance, the other was thin sounding.

Reason I bought the Echo was due to some inside info that it was going to be a big hit. Entry price were 340euro with shipping, except for having tried the Crack, WA2 and a littledot this is my first real tube amp. Loving it to bits, still now and then thinking about upgrading. The wood on the side is classy, but don't really fit the esthetics of my listening station.


----------



## Leonarfd

Rayon said:


> I just bought pair of brand new gold pinned JJ E88CCs for 60€ a pair and based on what I've read, those should already be quite good.


I might give them a shot, don't need it to be expensive 200-300 is max limit of what I want to pay.


----------



## Rayon

jclyle said:


> Did you get the JJ's? I need to upgrade the stock tubes, and these are an attractive option.


Just received them, they are heating up for the first time right now


----------



## jclyle

Rayon said:


> Just received them, they are heating up for the first time right now


Mine should be here tomorrow


----------



## Leonarfd

Did hold of buying JJ E88CC until your impression appeared 👍 Waiting in anticipation


----------



## Rayon

Amazing sound confirmed. I wish it was easier to A/B, but initial impressions based on my latest memory trace to days ago: clearly better soundstage and more... magical or maybe musical? Also this "hardness" that I experienced and very much disliked with Utopia seems to be gone. I almost sold this amp because of that and I'm very pleased to see that the problem could be solved with these tubes. To me this is definitely an upgrade over the stock.


----------



## Rayon

Leonarfd said:


> Did hold of buying JJ E88CC until your impression appeared 👍 Waiting in anticipation


Oh, and remember, these are the gold pins! These sould be "better"


----------



## Leonarfd

Seems like many has used this in single tube amps like LYR, seems from reviews that its a gem. Specially for the money.

I have the original Echo and tubes, only headphones I have not liked has been Planars. Actually had quite fun with some dynamic driver IEMs, while BA IEMs is horrible.


----------



## Rayon

Yes, value is definitely there. And to me it's a bonus to support tube producers that produce high quality stuff at decent prices.


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## Rayon

Yes, value is definitely there. And to me it's a bonus to support tube producers that produce high quality stuff at decent prices.


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## Leonarfd

Most expensive Tubes are rare NOS tubes that are raved about driving the prices up. Ordered a pair in gold pin matched, one of my stock tubes where lower in sound this summer. Now they are back to normal, so who knows what was wrong. But having a spare pair or a new one is probably smart.


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## Rayon

Leonarfd said:


> Most expensive Tubes are rare NOS tubes that are raved about driving the prices up. Ordered a pair in gold pin matched, one of my stock tubes where lower in sound this summer. Now they are back to normal, so who knows what was wrong. But having a spare pair or a new one is probably smart.


Will be very interesting to hear your thoughts. One needs to take my impressions with a huge grain of salt as there was so long time between the A/B with stock and I didn't do any volume matching or anything.


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## Leonarfd

I have my test tracks and can do a long session  on the new tubes with Verite, then swap back. Going to take a while since it's the holidays soon.


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## Rayon (Dec 7, 2022)

I just want to add something: I think this tube doesn't have the last say in speed, but instead it's kind of "rubbery" in a very nice way. It doesn't overdo this thing and it doesn't smooth out things in a way that would make them artificial. It just has this very nice error correction by slowness. For example I can listen to Metallica with Utopia. Normally that distortion would rip my ears off. However, it doesn't sound at all veiled or smoothed out nor does it it lose it's nature. It sounds like a real thing, but just less harsh. I can also _almost_, but just almost, listen to Children of Bodom - Hate Me (which is my ultimate harshness test for Utopia).

However, as a small downside, this errorcorrection does make some music a bit less exciting as well compared to 100% transparency. Whenever the music tries to play with that very finest microdetail, JJ doesn't quite get us there. For example Elton John's "Your Song" wasn't the best I've heard as I would like to hear _everything_ that his body does. But when I listen to things like this, I'm on the edge of crying, it's just so beautiful:






TL;DR; IMO would be that this tube makes you hear_ the music_ and it does that beautifully. It's not macro (vs micro) in the sense that it would be artificially dynamic, but it just emphasizes _the music_ in the music. Just amazing with jazz and classical with big macrodynamics. EDIT: Ohhh, and choir... mmm...


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## Leonarfd

When using tubes over solidstate, what I want is pure musicality. A good contrast from solidstate that can be too sterile, think your description falls in that category.



Rayon said:


> TL;DR; IMO would be that this tube makes you hear_ the music_ and it does that beautifully. It's not macro (vs micro) in the sense that it would be artificially dynamic, but it just emphasizes _the music_ in the music. Just amazing with jazz and classical.


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## Rayon

Leonarfd said:


> When using tubes over solidstate, what I want is pure musicality. A good contrast from solidstate that can be too sterile, think your description falls in that category.


Same. This is a nice complementary setup for easy listening. Not the lushest tube though, but classy. It would be very nice to compare this to microzotls, I would guess that they have similarities based on what I've read.


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## Exekuhtor

I have settled with these tubes:
6N6P OTK Nevz gold grid true NOS milspec red tip. (matched pair for 75€)
E88CC BEL NOS, identical to Philips E88CC SQ. These were made in India. (matched pair for 282€)

I also have a pair of ECC88 Brimar here which are warmer sounding but they don't have _gold_ sockets. CLEARLY the _gold_ MUST be better, right?  

The Echo now has an incredibly low noise floor and never sounded better. The two Beyers are very enjoyable and i am excited to get the Utopia in my hands.


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## Rayon

Exekuhtor said:


> CLEARLY the _gold_ MUST be better, right?


Go gold or go home 


Exekuhtor said:


> i am excited to get the Utopia in my hands


It definitely pairs nicely with Echo even though Utopia is _on paper_ on the lower barrier of the impedance range of Echo (80ohm). Maybe this has something to do with it:


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## JohanE

2 weeks ago I begun to get like static noise when I have headphones connected or through my active speakers using it as a preamp.
I thought it was time for new tubes so swapped for new ones but the static noise is still there.

It's an Echo mkII.

Before it was dead silent. What can it be? Anyone else with this issue?


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## Klabauters

JohanE said:


> 2 weeks ago I begun to get like static noise when I have headphones connected or through my active speakers using it as a preamp.
> I thought it was time for new tubes so swapped for new ones but the static noise is still there.
> 
> It's an Echo mkII.
> ...



New position of WLAN  Router/ Repeater?

New DECT Phone/ Repeater ?

I had somehow the same issue ... - after swapping all tubes, at the end (don't laugh now ...) I ended up wrapping mine in Alu-Foil an then I could, step by step isoloate the issue - it was the new Fritz Phone C6 causing the noises - setting it (C6)  into automatic sleep mode ended the noise.


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## Leonarfd

JohanE said:


> 2 weeks ago I begun to get like static noise when I have headphones connected or through my active speakers using it as a preamp.
> I thought it was time for new tubes so swapped for new ones but the static noise is still there.
> 
> It's an Echo mkII.
> ...


Anything else you have changed out? Another piece of gear? Or maybe just started the heater in the room? All those small things can contribute to noise. Tube amps are very sensitive about picking up noise, if you change out your echo with a normal amp and turn up the volume does something similar happens.
Noise is my biggest enemy when enjoying music.

I use iSilencer when connected to the PC and use a socket that is more silenced and protected.


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## Klabauters (Dec 20, 2022)

Leonarfd said:


> Anything else you have changed out? Another piece of gear? Or maybe just started the heater in the room? All those small things can contribute to noise. Tube amps are very sensitive about picking up noise, if you change out your echo with a normal amp and turn up the volume does something similar happens.
> Noise is my biggest enemy when enjoying music.
> 
> I use iSilencer when connected to the PC and use a socket that is more silenced and protected.


... yes absolutely right what you point out ...  esp. in terms of the electric heaters ...


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## Leonarfd (Dec 20, 2022)

Had a fun one, because of a electric earthing problem at the neighbour over the street their heater shorted my main fuse. When a electrician found out what was wrong the neighbour changed their heater, no more fuse problems and a humming noise present when the subwoofer disappeared.


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## JohanE

Leonarfd said:


> Anything else you have changed out? Another piece of gear? Or maybe just started the heater in the room? All those small things can contribute to noise. Tube amps are very sensitive about picking up noise, if you change out your echo with a normal amp and turn up the volume does something similar happens.
> Noise is my biggest enemy when enjoying music.
> 
> I use iSilencer when connected to the PC and use a socket that is more silenced and protected.



I did start the heater! I moved the Echo to my livingroom now, will try it out and see it its still noisy! Thanks!


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## JohanE

Well that was obviously the problem. The heater....
I moved my Echo ínto the livingroom and set it up there with my Gold Note DS-10 and plugged in my headphones. Dead silent. Again. Aaahhh.
Switched back my old tubes again.


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## Rayon

I have to say that after playing with Holo Bliss, Echo impresses me even more. The value it provides is very very good. I'm going to keep it next to Bliss. Bliss can provide that ultimate reference sound, but Echo is so musical and beautiful still being reference-esque. I feel that for Focal Utopia one musical high value setup is HQPlayer -> Holo Spring 3 + Feliks Echo (+ JJ gold pin).


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## Leonarfd

My JJ gold pinned arrived, if I get time I will try it tomorrow. Too bad changing back and forth take so long time on tubes. Still I know the stock sound quite good.


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## Leonarfd




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## Leonarfd (Dec 25, 2022)

Merry Christmas, may the tubes warm you trough the holidays.

Just now had a good long session this Christmas morning with the stock tubes, letting the tubes cooldown then I'm switching to the JJ 👍 Impressions will follow later today .


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## Leonarfd (Dec 25, 2022)

*JJ E88CC Gold Pin Vacuum Tube*

First impression, clean backdrop. More detailed soundstage. Bass is harder, amount of bass slightly less but the they sound harder on impact. Vocals is more natural to me on stock tubes, can be due to the clean presentation here on the JJ making them stand out more. Whats more natural is very subjective anyways since its a recording.
Treble seems about the same, maybe a tad hotter(this can be due to the tubes being new)

Very early, probably should use them for quite some more time before saying anymore.

Used a Topping E70 DAC and the headphones ZMF Verite. Flac files trough Foobar.


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## Leonarfd

*JJ E88CC Gold Pin Vacuum Tube*
I have now used it over the Christmas vacation, I still recommend the tubes if you want a sound that's a little more detailed over the stock tubes from Gen 1. Have never used gen 2. This is my subjective impression, and the changes are small. 
Gear used: 
DAC E70 and CMA400i 
Headphones ZMF Verite, Beyerdynamic T1 G2 and DT770 Pro
IEMs Dunu SA6 and Kima, Penon Serial and FAN 2, ISN H30 and EST50

Soundstage and imaging is the same to me, but the treble has some more bite. The vocals in the mids is a little more forward, maybe more than I prefer. 
The low end has harder impact but is less, this is very subtle. The tubes are also very clean sounding, no hiss or noise.

If you want a sound that is a little more detailed over the original go for it, it will portray more details if that's what your after.

Also need to say one thing, the Echo pairs very well with IEMs that are not to sensitive since the amp is very silent. Penon Serial with its 3 dynamic drivers is a dream just enhancing the character of Penon Serial.


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