# Discrete PPA Diamond Buffer - Alternative DIY Take :)



## Glassman

[size=medium]*Second generation PPA Diamond Buffers are here!*[/size]

 for information about them start browsing the thread from the last pages 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




relevant information regarding 2nd generation buffers starts at this point..



 For the newcommers: last year I have developped Discrete PPA Diamond Buffers as a cheaper DIY alternative to LaRocco Audio's Triad Diamond Buffers. They were based on Perander's QRV-05, which is basicaly a common implementation of the cirquit known as Diamond Buffer. After the success of the first run of these kits and sets I've decided to develop even better ones. I worked on them in my spare time with kind help of ppl and now I'm almost done. The new generation buffer prototypes were found significantly better when A/B compared to the older ones - that was the goal after all! Now I'm working on getting them ready for you. The buffers will fit PPA v1.x buffer sockets and are much better alternatives to commonly used Intersil HA3-5002 buffers. They will come again either as kits or fully assembled sets. Kits will include all the necessary parts and buffer boards with surface mount parts already populated on mashine. Assembled sets are fully tested & working plug-in modules, all you need to do is open your amp, remove existing buffers from the sockets and plug in the new ones, it's that simple.









 __________________________________________________ ______________






*List of orders, # of sets (each 3 boards):*

 Karlosak 1x****
 ITZBITZ 3x****
 qwerty870 2x****
 jboehle 2x
Lil_JV 1x*
 eyevancsu 1x****
 Pappucho 2x****
 doobooloo 2x****
 zbuddah 1x****
 guzzler 1x**** *cash received*
 BPRJam 2x****
 yhmzzz 1x****
 Super-Gonzo 1x****
 GLF 2x****
 Kris 2x****
 endia 2x**** *cash received*
 jamont 1x****
 chosen1 1x**** - looking after US distribution, contact him if you're in US
 Nisbeth 2x**** *cash received*
 McKajVah 1x****
 Submarinesailor 1x****
 crane 1x****
 benjohnson 1x****
 fiddler 1x****
Megaptera 1x****
 ufokillerz 1x****
 MisterX 2x****
 aos 1x****
 shiggins 1x**** *cash received*
 dreamnid 1x****
 LKraven 2x****
 Ashevar 1x****
 JCTW 1x****

 * means pin headers and smt parts requested
**** complete KIT

*Pricing:*

 3pcs of the bare boards, which is enough for one PPA *$10*
 complete KIT featuring all the parts needed and 3pcs of boards *$30*


 you should start sending the money to chosen1 if you're from US, or to me if you live somewhere else.. PM us about details..

 ETA: beginning of June 2004





 __________________________________________________ ______________

 although I don't own any PPA and never had, this thing was bugging me for a long time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 do you remember peranders QRV-05 smt diamond buffer? my version is in fact his, just with some modifications like removing unnecessary components and output stage little like Gilmore Dynamic..






 dimensions: 1" x 1.2", sitting on pin headers in PPA's buffer sockets, should fit well and on top of that shouldn't be taller than main filter caps..


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## Karlosak

I'm drooling !!!
 Really nice Glassman...

 A switch to the czech language: "Opravdu pekny Dominiku, mas muj obdiv, hned chci tri kousky... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "


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## ITZBITZ

Are you going to run a batch of these or maybe offer up the .BRD so we can get them fabbed at a local shop? I think you did a good job on it and wouldn't mind building a three-pack to try out.


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## Lil_JV

Please post the brd file. I would like to get some boards made.

 Thanks,

 JV.


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## Glassman

if there is some serious interest I can get them made here, I just need to know how many of you would be interested.. also I'd like to take my time revising and maybe improving the layout..

 the output transistors in my case are the ones used in Gilmore - 2SA1015 and 2SC1815.. Kevin decided to run them at 15mA each in his amp and I'd like to stick with that figure, so I changed R8 and R9 from 10R to 22R and since I'm using 1208 sized parts (in contrast to 0806 peranders use) I replaced R10&R12 and R11&R13 combinations or 10R for single 4.7R, this configuration gives ~14mA of quiescent current for each output transistor.. I'm using two pairs in contrast to just single in original peranders version and also in contrast to four pairs in Gilmore Dynamic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the opamp biasing section is naturally left out as well as a those two 100uF caps - we have good amount of rail capacitance on PPA board don't we 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and also a few cmt caps.. I've used film cap from rail to rail instead.. you should find up to 1uF in that package.. WIMA MKS2..

 you can refer to this schematic..

 any comments?

 feel free to show your interest


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## qwerty870

I'd buy about five of them if you were willing to make them available.


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## Lil_JV

So you need 1 of these per channel?


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## Glassman

yes, one per channel, eg. 3pcs for complete amp..

 how about <=$10 for the complete set of three boards? single sided board with HAL and green solder mask..


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## tangent

You just let the autorouter have its way with your board, I see. Ugh. Time to start hand-optimizing it. Also, you should run a DRC, making sure the DRC settings are compatible with your board house's limits. I doubt that the trace running between the two SMT 2-lead parts in the center (caps?) is manufacturable, for instance.


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## Glassman

no autorouter used tangent, it's hand-drawn.. this is first version, I've already got improved one, don't be affraid


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## jboehle

I'd buy 6 for $20 or less total.

 I'd also be interested in a non-SMT version, as I'm sure others would be too!

 -Jason


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## Lil_JV

I'll take 3.(for now)

 JV.


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## ITZBITZ

At your estimated price, I'd buy nine (9) of them, enough to deck out three amplifiers.


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## eyevancsu

For $10 (more or less) id buy the set, not a bad price at all.

 -ivan


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## eyevancsu

crap...first double


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## Pappucho

I'd be interested in 3 as well....


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## doobooloo

Whoa, yeah I would buy at least 6 (2 sets) as well.


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## zbuddah

yummy i'm interested in two sets of the SMT version I'd like mine small


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## aos

Tangent, that is manufacturable; I'm pretty sure I have traces running under SOT-23 parts myself though not quite as drastic as on this one. Of course I would hope everyone who designs any boards routinely runs DRC before ordering any. Also, it is always risky ordering en masse before ever building even one of them.


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## jamont

This is an interesting project, but I think a through-hole version would be much easier to build.


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## jboehle

Jamont, I agree completely!

 -Jason


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## Glassman

updated version, succeeded in DRM for V. category of precision..


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## peranders

I'll guess you already have seen my diamond buffer? EDIT: hm, the schematics came from me... but that's OK. I haven't really invented anything.

 Notice also that I have groundplane on the solderside. Anyone who want to test my pcb? I have a couple of pcb's for sale.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...1&postcount=23


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## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamont* 
_This is an interesting project, but I think a through-hole version would be much easier to build._

 

This small project, mine or Glassman's isn't very hard to solder. The trickiest ones are in fact the electrolytic caps because the pads are under the part.


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## guzzler

I'd take 3 of those boards Glassman...

 peranders, would you be willing to sell three boards with the components for them as well?? If so, I'd be interested

 g


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## BPRJam

Sign me up for 2 sets (6 boards).

 BPRJam


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## yhmzzz

I'd take 3(1 set) , Thanks Glassman


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## Glassman

ok, it's now clear there's strong interest among you so I'm getting the boards made.. I'll have 48 sets (144pcs) from the first batch.. there's already interest for about 20 sets now, so this is for safety 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now how can I bill you? I think it would be nice if someone from US could arrange a group buy for all americans and canadians.. collect the money and send them my way.. I'll send all the cards in one parcel so you can redistribute them for cheap in envelope to each individual.. is it okay for you? any volunteers?

 other states/continents will be treated individualy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: will post final layout soon..

 Oh and is anyone interested in different solder mask color then ordinary green? I can get Black, Red, Blue or Yellowish


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## ITZBITZ

I vote BPRJam -- he did an excellent job with the Nichicon Group Buy!


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## Super-Gonzo

I would definately be in for 3 boards as well.


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## BPRJam

Quote:


 I vote BPRJam 
 

I would if it were mid-june. I'm so swamped with school, work, and wife right now that I know I would forget something or someone.

 Either that, or be so slow in getting things done that my sterling reputation would be tarnished. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In any case, the next month is not a good time for me.

 BPRJam


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## guzzler

I wouldn't mind organising it, although I'm in the UK and most of you folks are in the states, although shipping for a few boards is not very much

 g


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## GLF

I would be interested in two sets.

 Andrew


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## Kris

I'd be interested in two sets as well; no rush though... I have paypal available.


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## endia

I would be interested in two sets too.
 thanks.


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## jamont

I'd be interested in 1 set of 3 boards.


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## chosen1

I would be willing to organize this for us in the US. 

 P.S. I would like a set.


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## Nisbeth

Depending on price I'd be interested in two or three sets of boards.

 Glassman, is the layout compatible with 0805-parts? (easier to get I think)
 Otherwise, a version designed for leaded components would also be nice.

 /U.


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## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nisbeth* 
_Depending on price I'd be interested in two or three sets of boards.

 Glassman, is the layout compatible with 0805-parts? (easier to get I think)
 Otherwise, a version designed for leaded components would also be nice.

 /U._

 

For this buffer 0805 parts are sufficient, except for the emitter resistors. I try to use 0805 where it's possible because the are easier to get. 1206 is starting to getting "old" and hard to get (reason? the are "big"). It's not harder to solder 0805 than 1206. Even 0604 is quite OK.


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## aos

Yes, it is harder to solder 0805. It's manageable, but it goes considerably slower. 1206 is a snap to solder, I'd take it over through-hole resistor any day of the week.


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nisbeth* 
_Depending on price I'd be interested in two or three sets of boards.

 Glassman, is the layout compatible with 0805-parts? (easier to get I think)
 Otherwise, a version designed for leaded components would also be nice.

 /U._

 

nothing stops you from using 0805 parts in place of 1206.. it could look not so sexy but it will work just okay.. I'm not gonna use leaded components, they are large, nasty and requires a lot more drilling and also double layer board, this would cost a lot more and I think it really isn't neccessary in such application..

 also I was thinking about selling the board together with the pin headers, becouse tangent told me it's difficult to get the right ones in US.. you need ones with very fine pins, like this one:





 it would cost $2 more for one set / three boards


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## aos

Yes, you can use 0805 where 1206 is expected - I do this all the time when I forget to buy 1206 parts or forget to realize that high precision resistors are available only in 0805, usually.


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## Glassman

the most recent layout:






 I'm already talking with a few board manufacturing houses about details.. circa 30 sets requested by you so far and seems like it won't grow any higher..


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## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzzler* 
_I'd take 3 of those boards Glassman...

 peranders, would you be willing to sell three boards with the components for them as well?? If so, I'd be interested

 g_

 

I have pcb's so those I can sell but ready made would be possible if I got an order of 200-300 pcb's but not by hand a couple, sorry. They aren't very hard to solder by hand it only takes time. At work it takes a couple of minutes with machines 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How much would you like to pay for a ready made buffer? (as little as possible of course) Post it here or send me a private message.


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## guzzler

I'd like to solder it myself, but it's very hard to get small quantities of SMD parts, so I'd have to buy hundreds of resistors for one set of buffers. I just wondered if you had any spare parts for them lying around you could send out with the bare boards.

 g


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## Glassman

not a bad idea, I can order all smd components easily here, so I can provide them together with the boards if there is some interest..


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## McKajVah

I'm also in for one set. And would love to get it with the parts!!


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## GLF

I would be interested in the boards with the parts also.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_not a bad idea, I can order all smd components easily here, so I can provide them together with the boards if there is some interest.._

 

Andrew


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## Submarinesailor

Add me to the "interested in 1 set of three with parts" category. Thanks!


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## Glassman

this is how it should look like:


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## peranders

OK, I hadn't the picture clear but what would the benefits be to use this discrete buffer compared to BUF634? This IC has lot's of advantages just because everything are matched and on the same chip. I admit though that this discrete buffer may add a certian unknown flavour.

 Morsel, tangent and the rest of the gang: Design idea: Discrete opamp like headphone amp?


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## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzzler* 
_I'd like to solder it myself, but it's very hard to get small quantities of SMD parts, so I'd have to buy hundreds of resistors for one set of buffers. I just wondered if you had any spare parts for them lying around you could send out with the bare boards.

 g_

 

www.elfa.se sells one quantity of everything! And they also do export business with credit card. ELFA is one of the big elephants in Sweden.


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peranders* 
_OK, I hadn't the picture clear but what would the benefits be to use this discrete buffer compared to BUF634? This IC has lot's of advantages just because everything are matched and on the same chip. I admit though that this discrete buffer may add a certian unknown flavour.

 Morsel, tangent and the rest of the gang: Design idea: Discrete opamp like headphone amp?_

 

why? because ppl has VERY good results using his discrete buffer.. PPA team had evaluated lots of IC buffers and decided on four Intersil HA3-5002 per channel as the best sounding option.. and ppl's discrete buffer leaves them behind by far.. guess what, ppl works on some new amp - completely discrete, he know what's he doing as well as many others like Mr. Gilmore etc. there is something to discrete..


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## peranders

Yeah, I forgot that they not where using the BUF634. Anyway the big difference is the possibility to biasing heavier and use bigger output transistors. I use BCP56/53, 1 A, 150 MHz devices.


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## crane

I would also be intersted in 1 set of boards (with parts)

 Crane


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## Nisbeth

Glassman,

 I would be interested in parts kits for my board as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, my comments on 1206 vs. 0805 were mainly directed at if you had made the footprints so they accept 0805 parts as well. From the replies here I gather that this is not a problem, correct?


 /U.


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## BPRJam

FWIW, I would like to have the components as well.

 BPRJam


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## Lil_JV

I guess if you are offering the parts with the boards I will take them as well.

 JV.


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## eyevancsu

It would be so awesome if you decide to do the boards and parts as well. Im definately in for sure.

 -ivan


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## chosen1

I too would be interested in a parts kit with my boards.


 BTW, My offer still stands for organizing the US end of this purchase. Send me a PM or an email if you would like me to do it.


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## benjohnson

I'd be in for a set of 3 with parts as well.

 --Ben


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## Glassman

I have updated the first post in this thread with the list of all of you who have requested the boards..

 still negotiating with board manufacturer houses.. seems like I'll be running batch of ~56 sets


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## Super-Gonzo

ooh, I'd definately want the parts (and pins?) as well.

 I'm excited, this should be fun!


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## guzzler

i'd be in for parts too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 g


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## Vladco

I'll be interested in 2 or more sets depends on eta and price.
 Vlad


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## Lil_JV

One thing I am unsure of. Does the cap position on the buffer PCB replace the C3's underneath on the PPA board?

 JV.


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## fiddler

I'll buy a set of boards with parts.


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## guzzler

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil_JV* 
_One thing I am unsure of. Does the cap position on the buffer PCB replace the C3's underneath on the PPA board?_

 

 I would suggest populating both; the space on the board isn't huge, although you could use a Black Gate or some other high-density type there. The WIMA MK2-02 will fit, as will the MKS-2 at a push, but it looks like it might clash with the first of the output transistors. So, small film cap on the board, then on the PPA board, either a larger film cap (>3.3uF) or a small Black Gate would be my move there

 g


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## BPRJam

Glassman, what's the status of having those pins included with the boards? If you can get them easier than those of us who are in the US, and they are a reasonable price, I for one would like to have them.

 BPRJam


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## Kris

Well, since we're getting organized now... I'd also be in for smt parts and the pin headers if available.


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## Pappucho

Update my order to 2 sets with parts, thanks!


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzzler* 
_I would suggest populating both; the space on the board isn't huge, although you could use a Black Gate or some other high-density type there. The WIMA MK2-02 will fit, as will the MKS-2 at a push, but it looks like it might clash with the first of the output transistors. So, small film cap on the board, then on the PPA board, either a larger film cap (>3.3uF) or a small Black Gate would be my move there

 g_

 

well, first I'd like to introduce the most recent version:





 as you can see I choose to have the cap lying on the board and actually rather downwards then upwards as is on the picture.. this way you can use common film type 50V 1uF with RM5 legs.. if you populate C3 it could be only better, though I don't know if it's any important.. having 1uF on the buffer board, why bother with two 100nF under? but if they're already on the board, leave them be.. regarding Black Gates and such I think it's up to your investigation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 also updated the firts post once again.. added a nice 3D render of the board


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## Glassman

did some calculations and this is a result:

 bare boards 3pcs / 1set ~ $10
 complete KIT for one PPA with all the parts ~ $28

 add some shipping to the prices as well..

 so who's interested in KIT and who will take just the boards?


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## guzzler

I'd take a complete kit for $30 definately.

 g


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## fiddler

Nice, make that a kit for me too!


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## jamont

For ~ $28, I'll go for a kit too, thanks!


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## Megaptera

I'd be interested in a kit.


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## GLF

I would be interested in the complete kit also.

 Andrew


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## yhmzzz

I'm interested in a kit.


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## Pappucho

Make mine 2 kits as well, thanks!


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## ITZBITZ

Kits good, less parts to order. Please convert mine to three kits to outfit three PPA's.

 FYI, the pictures are deceiving. Those resistors are only 3mm long and 1.3mm wide. Just FYI for those of you with huge soldering irons.


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## BPRJam

What the heck, convert my order into kits.

 BPRJam


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## doobooloo

ooh, convert my order into two kits as well, please!


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## peranders

Instead of these me too, me too posts you could surf over to www.diyaudio.com and create a wikipage so everybody can edit the page.

 I and a couple of others have group buys going on.

http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.p...verything+Else


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## Megaptera

Hmm. It looks like my PPA plans are on hold for a while now. Unfortunately I'll have to pass on this. (Bummer.)


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## rayofsi

dang forgot to read everything, i will be interested in 1 complete kit if available


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## MisterX

Quote:


 so who's interested in KIT and who will take just the boards? 
 

Mark me down for two kits.


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## benjohnson

I'm in for a kit.


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## aos

I'm on a shopping spree today so what the hell, I'll take one kit as well.


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## Glassman

another render 'coz I can't help myself, this is so nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 anyway, I hope I can finaly make an order early next week, the manufacturing process should take about two weeks.. during that time I'll try to have all the parts ready..


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## ppl

Great job Glassman looks real nice.


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## shiggins

Put me down for 1 kit, too.
 Ta.


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## aos

Dear God, what have you used to render that? Mind boggles at the effort that must've taken, unless there's a program that does this based on PCB layout (which would be amazing in itself).


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## ITZBITZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_Dear God, what have you used to render that? Mind boggles at the effort that must've taken, unless there's a program that does this based on PCB layout (which would be amazing in itself)._

 

I was going to ask the same thing, that looks gorgeous! Talk about finding your component proximity problems early, that is slick!


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ppl* 
_Great job Glassman looks real nice._

 

thanks, from you it sounds soo sweet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 any comments on circuit used, layout? don't you want a KIT too to try out against your Triad?


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_Dear God, what have you used to render that? Mind boggles at the effort that must've taken, unless there's a program that does this based on PCB layout (which would be amazing in itself)._

 

in fact it's really a piece of cake! check this out > Eagle3D


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## qwerty870

I'll take a kit too then.


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## dreamnid

I'll take a kit with parts for 1 PPA


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## eric343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_Dear God, what have you used to render that? Mind boggles at the effort that must've taken, unless there's a program that does this based on PCB layout (which would be amazing in itself)._

 

Protel does this...


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## Vladco

could this post helpDIY http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...873#post352873. It could really bring the price down or you could get one for three price- get extra board for a little extra price
 Vlad


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## dreamnid

btw.. you mention we can get the PCB in different colors... Would everybody have to get the same color? If not, is there a fee for another color, say blue?

 I realize this would make organization and purchasing the PCB boards a lot difficult, but I'm just curious about the options since you mentioned them


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## zbuddah

is it still possible to change my order from 2 bare boards into 1 complete kit?


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## LKraven

If you're using this to track interest, put me down for 2 kits (6 boards and components).


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## Nisbeth

Two kits for me as well please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 /U.


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## Ashevar

I will take 1 kit as well


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamnid* 
_btw.. you mention we can get the PCB in different colors... Would everybody have to get the same color? If not, is there a fee for another color, say blue?

 I realize this would make organization and purchasing the PCB boards a lot difficult, but I'm just curious about the options since you mentioned them _

 

nope, technicaly impossible, however I can render the board for you in whatever color you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 GUYS! I got the offer from the board manufacturing house, the price is exactly as I estimated, the boards should be ready in 15 days after I pull the trigger, however some other guy is making 12 prototypes for me already, so for safety reasons I'm gonna build one set of those protoboards first before I let the production run get fabbed.. the prototypes should be ready on wednesday!


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## Kris

Convert me to 2 complete kits please


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## McKajVah

I'm in for one complete kit. REALLY nice work!!

 Hope you have PayPal.


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## endia

please change my order to 2 complete kit. thanks


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## dreamnid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_nope, technicaly impossible, however I can render the board for you in whatever color you want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess I misunderstood you then. Would have been nice to have two different colors  Anyhow, nice to hear the good news - hopefully, the prototypes will work out well.


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamnid* 
_I guess I misunderstood you then. Would have been nice to have two different colors  Anyhow, nice to hear the good news - hopefully, the prototypes will work out well._

 

look, each little board sits on a larger board together with ~11 of its friends, about 13 of those larger boards are being manufactured and it's one single order/run with volume pricing in effect.. I can see how happy they would be if they had to change the solder mask color for one of the boards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 however I can talk about that with them, personaly I'd be happy to sample more colors on a few boards.. I'll try to work it out somehow, but cannot promise anything..


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## dreamnid

err... I understand those complications. I was just responding back when you asked if anybody was interested in different colors. I didn't mean to sound like I really wanted them - just wanted to inquire if it could happen. Since you said it will be difficult, I'll won't press on.

 Besides, I don't want to make a big issue out of a small thing.


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## Glassman

new version, two smt LEDs instead of four transistors, thicker traces where possible, removed unnecessary pins, board size reduced to square inch


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## jamont

This looks very nice, can you post a schematic?


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## tangent

Quote:


 can you post a schematic? 
 

Walt Jung's web site has the article. It's part 2 of the op-amp audio series. The differences in Glassman's design are doubled output transistors (2 per side into 10 ohms instead of 1 per side into 5 ohms), 2SC1815 and 2SA1015 output transistors instead of the generics Jung uses, and BC850/BC860 SMT input stage transistors instead of the thru-hole ones Jung uses. Oh, and there is probably some difference in the resistor values.


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## ITZBITZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_new version, two smt LEDs instead of four transistors, thicker traces where possible, removed unnecessary pins, board size reduced to square inch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damn you and your LEDs. Now I need to make sure when I case up my PPA that the LEDs will be right under the cooling slots so that they will glow through the case!


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## eric343

Is anyone else waiting for the slew of "How do I solder SMD?" and "These chips are so SMALL!" posts when the boards/kits start arriving?

 Time to buy stock in toaster oven and fish-tank-air-pump manufacturers...


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## jamont

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eric343* 
_Is anyone else waiting for the slew of "How do I solder SMD?" and "These chips are so SMALL!" posts when the boards/kits start arriving?_

 

Although Glassman's design looks really cool, I still believe that a through-hole version would be preferable for most builders.


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## doobooloo

Well at least the board doesn't have crazy SMD electrolytic caps...


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## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eric343* 
_Is anyone else waiting for the slew of "How do I solder SMD?" and "These chips are so SMALL!" posts when the boards/kits start arriving?

 Time to buy stock in toaster oven and fish-tank-air-pump manufacturers..._

 

'keep it secret, keep it safe' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they're all in for a lesson in surgery


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## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *doobooloo* 
_Well at least the board doesn't have crazy SMD electrolytic caps... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Those are hard to solder if you don't know trick... if you do, then it's easy.


----------



## LKraven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peranders* 
_Those are hard to solder if you don't know trick... if you do, then it's easy._

 

I guess I have to ask the obligatory question:

 What's the trick?


----------



## JCTW

I'm in for one complete kit,too. TKS!


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LKraven* 
_I guess I have to ask the obligatory question:

 What's the trick? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I would put some tin on the pads, then place the cap over the pads and heat it's legs so that they merge with the tin on a pads


----------



## Lil_JV

EDIT: Okay I will take one full kit.

 Thanks,

 JV.


----------



## eyevancsu

Glassman, can you please change my order to a complete kit? 

 Thankya

 -ivan


----------



## aos

By the way, BC transistors are Europe only, right? I never saw one this side of the pond, and when I lived in Europe I recall BC was used for everything.

 Also, I don't think your solution for smd electrolytic soldering would work... there is no way to access legs other than from underside, as far as I can tell. I never soldered one of those, I keep to "standard" SMD.


----------



## ppl

the best US supplyer is on semiconductor http://www.onsemi.com/site/products/...C850BL,00.html
 the complement is also available


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LKraven* 
_I guess I have to ask the obligatory question:

 What's the trick? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

MY trick is this:

 Put tin on ONE pad.

 Put tin on on cap connection

 Melt the tin on the pad

 Move the cap horizontally in place and the keep the tin melted as long as you move the cap.

 Solder the other connetion

 You can also glue the cap, just to keep it in place while soldering but my technique is rather easy.


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_By the way, BC transistors are Europe only, right? I never saw one this side of the pond, and when I lived in Europe I recall BC was used for everything.

 Also, I don't think your solution for smd electrolytic soldering would work... there is no way to access legs other than from underside, as far as I can tell. I never soldered one of those, I keep to "standard" SMD._

 

Isn't ON and Fairchild an american company? They manufacture BC transistors.

 First letter
 A = germanium
 B = silicone

 Second letter
 C = small signal
 D = power transistor

 About your soldering comment, true but a small part of the connection is peeping out. This is sufficient if you have the right soldering tip and heat enough.


----------



## commando

Can someone please clarify this for a DIY newbie who just read this entire thread? As I understand it, this is a replacement for the standard buffers like a PPA would take, but sounds better? By the thread title, I guess it's meant to be similar to those rather expensive diamond buffers? If so i'd be interested it getting a set (in whichever color you like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) for my new PPA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw if anyone has a direct link to the ordering wiki can you please post it? I can't find it on that page that was linked to.


----------



## peranders

There isn't (no?) any wiki but I suggest that Glassman creates one at www.diyaudio.com

 You can nick mine as an example. If glassman want some help, I can create the page but everyone must be users at diyaudio.com in order to edit the page.

http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.p...uper+Regulator


----------



## Glassman

first working, ehm, singing prototypes finished! sounds impressive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it is the mk2 version with red smt LEDs, each channel sucking around 38mA..

 more impressions as well as photos to come! stay tuned


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_first working, ehm, singing prototypes finished! sounds impressive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it is the mk2 version with red smt LEDs, each channel sucking around 38mA..

 more impressions as well as photos to come! stay tuned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

wow sounds like good news!!!, i'm not sure if this is mentioned already, but i am guessing that these will work find with opa637s? do you sell prototypes? 

 btw, if the other guy in the US doesnt go through with the groupbuy/distro in the US, i am willing to help, i have several hundred boxes, bags and bubble mailers at home as well as a postage account with usps, fedex, ups, and both a verified business paypal account and a verified personal paypal account, and a rather decent amount of references in trading computer hardware.


----------



## Glassman

yes the amp where the buffers were evaluated was equipped with OPA637/627, worked fine..

 you mean chosen1, I'm already in touch with him and he's gonna do it for all of you..

 no I'm not selling prototypes, you must stand the wait for the final version - proffesionally made boards with solder mask, top quality, also I have to get hold of all the parts to make kits..


----------



## aos

38mA per channel is fairly high, this is similar to what 4 HA3-5002 buffers would do (even a bit higher, I think). Higher current can translate into better sound but it's not portable (i.e. powering by battery is not practical) at this level of current draw. Still, most people probably plan on doing AC power only anyway.


----------



## JohnFerrier

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_38mA per channel is fairly high..._

 

From experience, that is about eight 9V alkaline batteries every 24 hours of play time. Currently burning through an eight-pack a week, until I find an alternative. (The sound is great, of course...else I wouldn't bother.) NiMHs last 1/4 the time of alkalines...

 Of course, the thing about class A is it's like a constant current sink on power. Doesn't matter if the volume control is up or down, if music is playing or not. Power is consumed continuously, constantly.


 JF


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_38mA per channel is fairly high, this is similar to what 4 HA3-5002 buffers would do (even a bit higher, I think). Higher current can translate into better sound but it's not portable (i.e. powering by battery is not practical) at this level of current draw. Still, most people probably plan on doing AC power only anyway._

 

it can be adjusted quite easily, either you assemble just one pair of output transistors instead of two and you're at 22mA or change two resistor values to lower the bias to whatever you'd like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but yes, I don't think most people threat their PPAs as 'portables' anyway..


----------



## Karlosak

Hi guys,
 I'm really glad I can introduce Glassman's Diamond buffer to you...
 We've been testing the prototype extensively today. And it does really look promising!
 When we first plugged one triade in - Holly crap! The sound si now more detailed, with much stronger bass and better separation between instruments. These buffers add whole new life and sparkle to my beloved PPA. Yes, the highs seem a bit sharp and grainy but with proper burning-in this should be fixed.

 Here are some pictures.
 Enjoy... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Bye-Bye Intersil:


----------



## dreamnid

Looks pretty good 

 So when can we get 'em  ?


----------



## jamont

Awesome photos, thanks!


----------



## tangent

Quote:


 I guess it's meant to be similar to those rather expensive diamond buffers? 
 

Glassman's design is very similar to the diamond buffer design from the Jung article you can find referenced in the sticky thread on diamond buffers in this forum. The LaRocco Audio diamond buffer is related to that design, but superior. I cannot say more -- it's not my place to plublicize that design.


----------



## rayofsi

great look, now i can add speed holes to my PPA and light shining through it =D


----------



## Tobrew

You gotta love the picture with the glowing LEDs. It makes you want to put a clear top on your PPA.


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Karlosak* 
_Hi guys,
 I'm really glad I can introduce Glassman's Diamond buffer to you...
 We've been testing the prototype extensively today. And it does really look promising!
 When we first plugged one triade in - Holly crap! The sound si now more detailed, with much stronger bass and better separation between instruments. These buffers add whole new life and sparkle to my beloved PPA. Yes, the highs seem a bit sharp and grainy but with proper burning-in this should be fixed.

 Here are some pictures.
 Enjoy... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Bye-Bye Intersil:




_

 

Congratulations on your new Design Glassman for a job well done. Those LED look real cool however you could rescale your resistors and use BLUE as a reference that would be a nice effect. 

 I experienced the same thing when first listening to my Diamond buffer for the PPA the TRIAD Module. The sound improved all across the board however the PPA straights still were preserved. The difference between op amps was greater and all headphones sounded like they moved up one quality grade or more.

 Don’t be to quick to pronounce the opa637 stable as this can come back and bite you as it has me. When hot and loaded with something extreme like CD3Ks your output stage bandwidth will plummet and any sudden transients or other enormous gremlins can conspire to create stability problems and also evaluate with bass boost on.

 Anyway Good luck and I am so glad the youth today are into constructive works. In addition with the art of analog and most importantly discrete component level designers fast becoming lost it is good to learn the old ways.


----------



## aos

Quote:


 Glassman's design is very similar to the diamond buffer design from the Jung article you can find referenced in the sticky thread on diamond buffers in this forum. The LaRocco Audio diamond buffer is related to that design, but superior. I cannot say more -- it's not my place to plublicize that design. 
 

As tangent said, and I can add that ppl spent a fair bit of time experimenting, both theoretically and empirically, to arrive to his final solution (he has even better ones but they wouldn't fit). I love how compact and small Glassman's boards are, that's exactly what I was hoping that someone will do, but do expect a lot of experimenting before you get the most out of it. This is certainly a good start, and the glow is cool.


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* 
_Glassman's design is very similar to the diamond buffer design from the Jung article you can find referenced in the sticky thread on diamond buffers in this forum. The LaRocco Audio diamond buffer is related to that design, but superior. I cannot say more -- it's not my place to plublicize that design._

 

Glassman took "my" design but changed the output transistors. Anyway "my" buffer has cascodes and Jung had not. I don't know how much they do but some I'll believe.

 Nice patch, Karlosak! It's cool when you have lights inside. I used only dull diodes (transistors infact) for my reference voltages.


----------



## Karlosak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tobrew* 
_You gotta love the picture with the glowing LEDs. It makes you want to put a clear top on your PPA._

 

Exactly! Now I just whisper for myself: "Why didn't I build it with a clear cover, Why didn't I build it with a clear cover......." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S.: This is not yet the final version. Glassman is still playing and fiddling with it intensively. So stay tuned


----------



## ppl

ya those parmetal cases will look real cool with these for sure


----------



## tangent

Quote:


 Glassman took "my" design 
 

He changed it back to the LED+transistor type bias setup that Jung originally used instead of the stacked transistors in your design. The former takes up less board space, which was helpful.


----------



## peranders

My reason for using transistors were only to reduce the amount of different part types and also to get some temperature stabilization, which I'll believe also a LED will provide.


----------



## Glassman

but there are still cascodes used exactly like in peranders buffer.. I plan on using transistors in TO126 package instead and maybe cascode the output stage too.. I have to lower the bandwidth in order to ensure stability with OPA637s.. shame there's no ground connection on the buffer sockets..


----------



## peranders

Why lower the bandwidth of buffer(?), more like increasing it? Seriously the buffer is good for 100 MHz if you can provide low source impedance but in real life I think around 25 MHz is the practical value and may be enough if you have gain of 10 or so. But the OPA637 seems to have a little too small phase margin.


----------



## Glassman

well not exactly lower the bandwidth but rather low pass filter the input with -3dB somewhere around 100kHz or so to prevent high freq stability problems..


----------



## rayofsi

so when is it before we can see the professionally done boards again?


----------



## Glassman

I'm trying to do my best regarding the buffer design, I hope it will be finished next week so that I can let the batch run, then we'll have to wait another two weeks and then.. I know it's a long time, but it's worth it I promise


----------



## McKajVah

I almost can't wait for the diamond buffers.....I'm currently running my PPA from 1xBUF634 per channel....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I think the diamond buffers will improve the sound beyond my imagination....


----------



## rayofsi

any updates ?


----------



## Glassman

we have found out that the output stage was running just about 6mA of bias instead of the projected 16mA, so that was probably the reason for it sounding somewhat sharp on the highs.. I've sent Karlosak to the shop for different resistors and he'll try to fix it.. also I've come up with an idea of input LPF with corner somewhere at half a megahertz, hope it fix any possible problems with OPA637s.. we'll see today.. he'll probably post his results here..

 btw. there is quite a large difference between 637/627/637 and 627/627/627 configuration paired with this buffer.. lows and mids are the same but highs are considerably better with 627 now, which might indicate some problems with 637.. we'll try to figure that out..

 also in the final versin I'd like to use the output transistors Kevin uses in his dynahi, he thinks highly of them! (and I think highly of him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## ppl

That harsh High end is at least indicative of ringing. Big resistor between on amp and Buffer like 2.2K this will reduce overall bandwidth width which is what you want to do as strange as it sounds more output stage bandwidth in a multi loop configuration can sometimes be a liability rather the an asset that it normally is. I noticed this back when i started playing with multi loop and the BUF-634. The BUF634 has the facility for adjustable Bias and as EE types know lower Bias currents generally result in lower bandwidth for a given device. This is illustrated in the BUF634 Icq vs Bandwidth graph Page 4 upper Left hand top Gain and Phase vs frequency and Icq. Notice that above a point the response starts to peak. This is a direct result of the higher bandwidth. Using a higher value source resistor as illustrated in graph below it called gain and phase vs source resistance and look to the graph at the right gain and phase vs load resistance. Notice at low resistances like 50 ohms no response peaking is noted while at 100 ohms peaking starts and at 1k ohms peaking is substantial see again how bandwidth source resistance and Bias all play a rather complex interdependent role in the Amplifier output stage system.


----------



## Karlosak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_I've sent Karlosak to the shop...._

 

Firstly, I would like to say that I'm no Glassman's slave or peon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I've been testing Glassman's buffer prototype intensively today especially focused on the slight treble harshness of the combination with OPA637.
 We´ve settled on some resistor value changes in order to increase the bias point. Now it's running at about 21mA and seems fine. 
 The slight treble harshness/sharpness has completely gone and it's really pleasure to listen to it! The most noticeable improvement is in the bass area. I already thought that PPA w/ Intersils is really powerfull in that regard but this buffer alters my mind a bit. I've never heard so powerful and extended bass from my HD-650 so far. However the rest of the spectrum is not left behind. Mids are very well done, precise, with good articulation. Highs are pleasant, colorful with lots of detail. Although soundstage is about the same (but already superb with this amp) the imaging has improved. This is no doubt the greatest upgrade to my PPA.

 We've tried some low-impedance phones with OPA637s too without problem so there shouldn't be any instabilities with this op-amp. 

 Glassman still has some interesting ideas so we will play with it a bit before the final version is out. Thus please wait a while...


----------



## ppl

so the previous buffer consumed 38 ma and now its 21 ma i am confused and are you refering to the output transistors only or the entire Buffer channel


----------



## Glassman

that was just a calculated value.. it was more like 18mA in fact because of underbiased output trannies (were 6mA and should be 16mA), now he's running just one transistor, not a pair of them and it's set to 21mA, so the whole buffer eats 27mA.. this will change with the final version.. I plan on using 2SC3421/2SA1358 running at >30mA each, one channel should get away with under 40mA or so..

 ppl, thanks so much for your suggestions, I really appretiate your help, but luckily it seems everything is just okay even without any tweaks other than setting the proper bias on output transistors..


----------



## Glassman

let me introduce the final layout, GPDBmk3:






 the final price for the kit looks more like a nice rounded *$30* plus the shipping costs inside the US.. I'm sending the whole box of them to chosen1, he will be getting the money from you and later shipping the kits to each of you..

 if you're from other country then USA, I will ship it directly to you from Czech Rep. I'd like to get the money as a cash in an envelope sent as a registred mail..

 you can expect the kits in a few weeks, during that time, you can send the money to chosen1 (if you're in US) or me (for the rest of the world).. the first who sent the money, the first who'll be served..


----------



## LKraven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_the final price for the kit looks more like a nice rounded *$30* plus the shipping costs inside the US.._

 

That's $30 per board, or $90 + shipping for a complete PPA setup? Or is that $30 for a kit of 3 boards+components?

 LK


----------



## Glassman

for the kit, three boards with all the parts, of course..


----------



## yhmzzz

Glassman..

 Can you get the money by Paypal?
 I prefer Paypal.. 

 Of course, I live outside the US. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks.

 - yhmzzz


----------



## Glassman

I'm sorry, but I can't access PayPal here in Czech Rep. I think the cash-in-envelope way is not that bad, I've sent a cash to the US a few times, everything went okay.. please include $5 for the shipping on top of the $30 for each ordered kit.. (oh and no coins please, stick with notes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 once I receive the payment I will note it down in the first post in this thread..


----------



## crane

Would chosen1 be willing to take care of his friends up here in the Great White North (Canada) ?


 Crane


----------



## McKajVah

Just a couple of questions...

 On page 1 you say "complete KIT featuring all the parts needed and 3pcs of boards $30".

 But in the pictures the output transistors are missing, are they included in the kit or do I have to buy them my self? And if so, what do you recommend using?

 BTW, it looks awsome!!

 Thx for all the great work!!


----------



## chosen1

Hello everyone,
 I will be doing the distrobution for all of the North American orders. To cover paypal fees, shipping, envelopes, etc. we are loking at $3 per set, or if you order 2 or more sets, $4 for all. My paypal id is paypal[at]daltonworld[dot]com. I prefer paypal, but if you can't use it send me a PM and I will give you my address to send a money order. 

 Thanks,
 Tom

 * edit * I just realized this could be a little confusing so to clairify: 1 set= $33, 2 sets= $64, 3 sets= $94


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_Hello everyone,
 I will be doing the distrobution for all of the North American orders. To cover paypal fees, shipping, envelopes, etc. we are loking at $3 per set, or if you order 2 or more sets, $4 for all. My paypal id is paypal[at]daltonworld[dot]com. I prefer paypal, but if you can't use it send me a PM and I will give you my address to send a money order. 

 Thanks,
 Tom_

 

what kind of envelope? I'm noping its not a plain white.


----------



## chosen1

No, I will be using a padded mailer.


----------



## BPRJam

Chosen1:

 Thanks for agreeing to take care of this group buy. Being that there are many parties involved, stuff is being sent from europe, some people want the boards, some want kits, etc, etc, this is quite and undertaking. Thank you for your time and effort.

 I do have a question about the cost, though. Each kit is $30, but I don't quite understand shipping. Glassman says something about an additional $5 per kit for shipping, then you mention $3 per set or $4 for all sets.

 Does this mean that the US buyer should expect $5+$4 = 9$ for shipping multiple kits, or is it only $4 for US shipping? I'm a little confused about what charges are applicable to what geographies, so any clarification would be great.

 Once we get this straightened out, I'll be ready to paypal you the money. Thanks again for organizing the US portion of this group buy.

 To Glassman: Thank you for your effort designing, manufacturing, testing, and putting together kits for this project. I'm looking forward to hearing the sound of these diamond buffers, even though I'm not looking forward to burning my fingers doing the surface mount soldering! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BPRJam


----------



## chosen1

The $5 is just for the orders outside North America.


----------



## crane

Chosel1, 

 Any extra charge for shipping to Canada ? 

 Thanks
 Crane


----------



## chosen1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crane* 
_Chosel1, 

 Any extra charge for shipping to Canada ? 

 Thanks
 Crane_

 

Nope, nothing extra.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_No, I will be using a padded mailer._

 

Are you kidding me? 
 Shipping electronic parts in padded mailers is just asking for problems. 
 Have you ever seen what happens when a mail sorter jams? 
 Are you aware that you can get free boxes from your local post office??


----------



## chosen1

How much do you want to pay for shipping?

 Glassman was concerned shipping costs could become prohibitive, so we decided to use envelopes as they are cheaper to mail. 

 I have shipped many electronic parts in padded mailers without incident.

  Quote:


 Have you ever seen what happens when a mail sorter jams? 
 

Do you honestly believe a box makes a difference in an equiptment failure?


----------



## rayofsi

actually that is why i offered to do this as well, i have about 800 indestructo boxes at home, tested to 200lbs , 4"x3"x2", 800 4mil poly bags, 800 bubble bags. 

 I can ship the exact same way you do for the same price with the above packaging..


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_Do you honestly believe a box makes a difference in an equiptment failure?_

 


 Am I to take that answer as a no? 
 Listen, I don't particularly care how or why you choose padded envelopes.
 I would ask that you ship my buffers to me in a box. OK?


----------



## Pappucho

How about we mail you a self addressed small box you can use to ship the buffers to us if some of us are really all that concerned about this. I can ship a small box to you inside of a large padded envelope.....


----------



## BPRJam

I seem to recall that everything I've ever gotten from Tangent came in a padded envelope, and I've never had any problems with how things arrived.

 Personally, Chosen1, I'll go with whatever you think is reasonable (within limits, of course). A padded envelope is fine with me.

 BPRJam

_Edit:corrected misspelling_


----------



## doobooloo

Glassman -

 Is this run of buffers the only run that you'll ever do, or will you do another run as soon as the first batch runs out?

 I ask because I'm in China right now and won't be able to make the purchase for another four months...


----------



## chosen1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BPRJam* 
_I seem to recall that everything I've ever gotten from Tanget came in a padded envelope, and I've never had any problems with how things arrived.

 Personally, Chosen1, I'll go with whatever you think is reasonable (within limits, of course). A padded envelope is fine with me.

 BPRJam_

 

Thank you, that was exactly the point I was going to make. This is really a non-issue, but if someone _really_ wants a box I can use one.


----------



## Glassman

for orders in North America:

 the one who's responsible is the chosen one, ehm, chosen1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 he charges $3 or $4 on top of the kit(s) price for shipping, depending on the number of kits ordered - 1 kit = $3, >1 kits = $4. he is ready to receive the money either by PayPal or using Money Order, your choice..


 for orders everywhere else:

 I'm taking care of it myself.. as there's no way to use PayPal here in Czech Rep. I'd like to get the cash sent to my address in an envelope as a registred mail, but if you feel somewhat paranoid about it, you can send the money using Western Union, but it's a lot more expensive yet really safe way.. I'd like to see $5 on top of the kit(s) price, no matter how many kits ordered (up to 3 sets, that's it).. I'm really looking forward to receiving the money from all of you outside the new world because I'll have to cover the cost for all the parts and boards and it's really high.. I'll use all the money I can but even then it won't be enough, so please help me and send the money soon.. thanks a lot!


 what's in the kit:

 three pieces of the buffer boards together with all the components you need to assemble it, no matter if they're on the rendered picture or not, they're all in the kit.. the kit price is $30..


----------



## crane

Chosen1,

 Once we have paid you for the boards, how long until you ship them out ?

 Thanks


----------



## chosen1

It's going to be a couple of weeks. The boards are still being manufactured. As soon as I have them I will be sending them out the next day.


----------



## chosen1

I just wanted to let everyone know. I'm going to be out of town next week. If you send me a message and I do not respond right away, do not despair, I am not ignoring you.


----------



## IpsilonSound

I think, I'll buy one kit as well to try it out...

 Chosen1, could you add me to the distribution list too pls?


----------



## chosen1

Yeah, no problem


----------



## Turing

I'd also like to get into this for one complete kit as well, if that's still possible.


 Chosen1, can you add me to the list too? I'll PM you with my mailing info.


----------



## IpsilonSound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_Yeah, no problem_

 

I'll pm my info then as well.


----------



## morsel

Sorry for this late comment, but I only just got a copy of the schematic. Why are resistors bridging the input to the power rails? They seem to serve no useful purpose and may introduce noise from the power rails. They can be omitted without changing the board.


----------



## Glassman

thanks for re-drawing the schematics morsel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 actually I don't plan on using those resistors, there was just enough place for them so why not.. they are mainly supposed to increase the current going to the buffer board itself, possible noise issues? I don't know, they were on the peranders' original buffer but I'm not using them on my prototypes.. another reason to include the pads for them is that I can put some 1nF cap from input to -V to act like a low pass filter with corner at some 500kHz or so to deal with possible high frequency oscillation problems..

 I've installed the new output transistors recently, works fine, but I still need to fiddle a bit with resistor values to set the proper bias current for them.. boards should be done soon.. it's comming


----------



## Glassman

received first envelopes with cash enclosed, one from Turkey and another from England.. can't wait for the rest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the boards are finished, they're sending them my way soon! final decision on part values made, ordering soon..

 mk3 version prototype managed to outperform mk2, you're up to something there


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morsel* 
_Sorry for this late comment, but I only just got a copy of the schematic. Why are resistors bridging the input to the power rails? They seem to serve no useful purpose and may introduce noise from the power rails. They can be omitted without changing the board. 




_

 

Since you (Glassman) have "nicked" my schematics (without knowing everything about the design, you could ask me), I have added pullup or pulldown for just in case. If the buffer always is connected to a DC-path somewhere (amp's output for instance) you won't need these resistors. If the buffer may be unconnected these resistors must be used in order to get a predictable behavior.


----------



## Glassman

yes, that came to my mind too, but you're right, in this particular implementation, it will always connect to opamp's output, thus those are not needed and like I said, I'm not using them, there was just enough free space for them, the pads might be helpful if some problem raise like oscilation problems, whatever.. it doesn't cost me a penny to have them there either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you're right, I should have ask you in first place, next time I'll do that


----------



## Glassman

another cash came from Denmark and Scotland, great!

 boards received, but accidentally some of the holes are smaller than needed (my mistake), but you know what? they will re-drill them for free! an pretty fast too, on Monday! the boards otherwise looks really great, very nice greenish stop mask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 parts order confirmed, although I don't know when to expect them..


----------



## ITZBITZ

I've missed a couple of posts, but those of us in the US are supposed to send payment to chosen1 for our boards, right? When does he/she need the money so that it can be delivered to you to pay for the parts and boards, etc.


----------



## Glassman

good morning to you, ITZBITZ! just for your information, most of the people involved have already sent their payments to chosen1 using PayPal, you might want to do the same if you want to get your buffers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 check a few past posts, you should find everything important there..


----------



## Glassman




----------



## Nisbeth

/U.


----------



## doobooloo

Ooh, very nice!

 I'm wondering - if there's enough demand, will you do the diamond buffer "group buy" again in the future?


----------



## ITZBITZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_good morning to you, ITZBITZ! just for your information, most of the people involved have already sent their payments to chosen1 using PayPal, you might want to do the same if you want to get your buffers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 check a few past posts, you should find everything important there.._

 

Egads. I did miss that. I would like to blame slow performance lately and I'd like to the thank the academy. FYI, payment sent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those boards look nice -- and SMALL. Time to get out the 1/32 and the 1/64...


----------



## rayofsi

any updates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 have the holes been enlarged by some professional drilling?


----------



## Glassman

I got the rest of the parts as well as the re-drilled boards on my local post office.. yes, the boards were re-drilled by the manufacturer, on the CNC drill using fixed Excellon files from me, should look like new.. today, me and Karlosak, we're gonna assemble one set of final boards and make a step-by-step assembling photos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I expect the kits to be sent sometimes next week, I need to put the right amount of everything into little plastic bags


----------



## rayofsi

why not assemble them all with your 1337 soldering skills? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 nice close up pics btw


----------



## tangent

Quote:


 why not assemble them all with your 1337 soldering skills? 
 

It took me about an hour to assemble each of the prototypes I've tested. I wouldn't want to build them even if you doubled the price to $60.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* 
_It took me about an hour to assemble each of the prototypes I've tested. I wouldn't want to build them even if you doubled the price to $60._

 

your opinions of the prototypes so far? Can i have one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* 
_It took me about an hour to assemble each of the prototypes I've tested. I wouldn't want to build them even if you doubled the price to $60._

 

btw, was that 1hr per board or 1hr per set


----------



## tangent

Quote:


 your opinions of the prototypes so far? 
 

The design has changed from the version I built, so my thoughts are probably irrelevant. I will be building the current version, and I may offer comments on that when I do.

  Quote:


 was that 1hr per board or 1hr per set 
 

One hour per buffer.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* 
_The design has changed from the version I built, so my thoughts are probably irrelevant. I will be building the current version, and I may offer comments on that when I do.

 One hour per buffer._

 

heard the toaster over method only takes several minutes


----------



## aos

Yeah, and one hour to lay the parts down before the oven. There's no such thing as free lunch.

 Well, not an hour perhaps but this is 0805 and SOT-23, about the limit of what any sane person would do. If you can do smaller you should have probably become a surgeon instead. Personally I would have gone with 1206 minimum.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_Yeah, and one hour to lay the parts down before the oven. There's no such thing as free lunch._

 

ill be damned, with my mediocore smd soldering skills, i bet this will take me all night!


----------



## aos

It can be done much faster than an hour, but I would bet that tangent is a representative of a typical user here and so the time he took should be considered as typical build time. I'm sure that somebody will even comment how 0805 are nothing and easy to solder but that's not going to represent a typical builder either.


----------



## tangent

Quote:


 this is 0805 
 

Nope, the SMT Rs and Cs and Ds are all 1206.

  Quote:


 i bet this will take me all night! 
 

I don't know...On the one hand, I have the advantage of having soldered a lot of SO-8 chips previously, and 1206 and SOT-23 really aren't that far removed from that. On the other, these transistors and 2-lead parts are arguably easier than SO-8 chips because the pins are relatively far apart, so you don't worry about solder bridges.

 For what it's worth, the time I took includes matching the output transistors for hFE and go/no-go testing the buffers. Actual parts placement and soldering was probably more like 45 minutes per buffer.

 Speaking of transistor matching, is there any point to matching the driver and CCS transistors? It would be pretty tricky to rig up a way to do that with SMT transnstors....


----------



## Glassman

I never tried to match them, pain to do that with smt trannies and on the other hand I never had many of output trannies at hand..

 when I was building the first prototype, on a board without solder mask and with more parts actually, it took me 20min per board, and I'm not calling myself fast..

 anyway, for $50 I can offer proffesionally populated boards if you don't feel like soldering them yourself..


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_I never tried to match them, pain to do that with smt trannies and on the other hand I never had many of output trannies at hand..

 when I was building the first prototype, on a board without solder mask and with more parts actually, it took me 20min per board, and I'm not calling myself fast..

 anyway, for $50 I can offer proffesionally populated boards if you don't feel like soldering them yourself.._

 

$50 for the service or $50 complete? i already sent choosen1 $33 =P


----------



## Glassman




----------



## Glassman

$50 for the fully assembled boards, by a professional..


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tangent* 
_It took me about an hour to assemble each of the prototypes I've tested. I wouldn't want to build them even if you doubled the price to $60._

 

The only way to speed up things is to make more pcb at the same time. The time comsuming part is to get the parts out of their tapes and then put all back again... and don't mix parts.

 This must be manfactured in order to earn something. Our pick-and-palce machine has a cycle time of 1-2 seconds. 20 parts = max 30 seconds or so.... compare this with and hour. My tiny byffer took me approx. 15-20 minutes to solder but I gained time because iI don't use so many different parts. Instead of a LED I have two transistors, for example.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_$50 for the fully assembled boards, by a professional.._

 

how would this work since i sent choosen1 30+3 for s/h already?


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_$50 for the fully assembled boards, by a professional.._

 

About 5-10 USD in "high cost" Sweden... but not 10 boards....over 500 boards will be no problems. It's important though that the pcb is adjusted for production and the first thing is naturally to skip those TO92's.


----------



## Glassman

yes, but the current ones are not adjusted.. it would involve making dual layer boards which would rise the cost a bit.. I'm thinking about redesigning the board once again, using 0805 parts, dual layer board and having them populated on a machine.. I'll need to investigate.. but for now, for board from this batch I can have it populated by hand from a proffesional.. ~$50 for set of three fully assembled boards..


----------



## peranders

Glassman, just a tips from me: Do this only if you have collected the money first because the risk is rather high I imagine.


----------



## Glassman




----------



## rayofsi

looking at the picture, it looks like i can actually put this together pretty well =P

 bag the parts quickly, send parts out, then work on instructions =P

 soldered plenty of soic chips before also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 did you forget 2 resistors in the v3 picture?

 i have a new ppa coming and all thats missing is the buffer =P
 btw, how would i test it before plugging it into a ppa?


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufokillerz* 
_looking at the picture, it looks like i can actually put this together pretty well =P_

 

hope you're not alone in your assumption 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 bag the parts quickly, send parts out, then work on instructions =P 
 

rogered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


 soldered plenty of soic chips before also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 did you forget 2 resistors in the v3 picture? 
 

no these are optional and not used, what you see is a final version that will be shipping to you soon..


  Quote:


 i have a new ppa coming and all thats missing is the buffer =P
 btw, how would i test it before plugging it into a ppa? 
 

we've developed an advanced testing method, took us few weeks to come up with such a wonderful invention - plug them into your PPA sockets, fire it up and wait for the kaboom! just like we do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 best luck!


----------



## Nisbeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_we've developed an advanced testing method, took us few weeks to come up with such a wonderful invention - plug them into your PPA sockets, fire it up and wait for the kaboom! just like we do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




best luck!_

 

I bet that one took a long time to develop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm with ufokillerz on the shipping issue, who ever reads instructions anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 /U.


----------



## ITZBITZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nisbeth* 
_I'm with ufokillerz on the shipping issue, who ever reads instructions anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 /U._

 

Those of us that want to make sure we get the right parts in the right place, that's who. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But ship them out, write the instructions during the long mail delay...


----------



## rayofsi

how big are those resistors? i've dealt with some pretty small smt resistors, they were really small.. smaller then some others i've seen.


----------



## aos

1206 resistors aren't a big deal, I actually prefer them to through-hole for speed of soldering. SOT-23 transistors will be the toughest part to solder as they're tiny, assymetrical and have 3 pins. Glassman, unless you intend to go for machine production I'd recommend you stay away from 0805 if you intend this to stay a wide appeal project.


----------



## rayofsi

how big are 0603 resistors, those where what i was soldering a while ago, they were SMALL!!


----------



## aos

0603 I never dealt with and it is probably VERY small, way too small to deal with except if you're going to fix something using them and need to replace a few. This is 1206 which is not all that small - though lots of people will disagree, rightfully so. If you were soldering 0603 before then this buffer should be a walk in the park for you, that's my guess.


----------



## Glassman




----------



## rayofsi

that would look so much better in my Blackgates FK/N powered amp


----------



## guzzler

0805s are fine to solder with a well made and tinned board (like Glassmans). The worst thing is the surface tension of molten solder can pick up the package at funny angles. What I did was to put a little solder on one pad, remelt it and pushed the resistor into the molten solder using a snipped resistor lead. The other pad is then easy to do.

*edit:* just out of interest, which pin is the input pin into the buffer? Just seems wasteful to populate all 4 of the load sharing resistor positions

 g


----------



## Glassman

input is on the right side of the text, don't know which resistor it is on the PPA board.. your method for soldering smd parts is right, I do it the same way..

 bad news boys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 american orders were planned to ship with output transistors ordered from bdent.com, but chosen1 just told me they have too little in stock.. barely for 20 kits.. the situation with non-american orders isn't any better too, my supplier sent me just 7pcs of NPN transistors out of 12 requested.. I've ordered another batch recently but I really don't know when they appear..


----------



## guzzler

input is R14 then, same as the LaRocco buffer (it's the shortest trace on the board, so that's good!)

 g


----------



## JazzJackRabbit

Is it too late to send money to chosen1?

*Glassman*
 I would rather prefer an assembled kit, but when can you start assembling them on a conveyor instead of manualy?

 Thanks...


----------



## rayofsi

arent there other places that sell these output transistors?


----------



## rayofsi

updates updates


----------



## Glassman

assembled units probably in the beginning of July, you must wait..

 tangent suggested me that MCM has some stock, chosen1 will grab the missing amount there but they're twice the price at bdent.com 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for outside-americans there's no update yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 wait wait wait..


----------



## rayofsi

does this mean that the boards are being sent out to choosen1 already?


----------



## Glassman

unfortunately not, still waiting for the rest of BC850C trannies.. will ship most probably next week..


----------



## chosen1

Just an update from my end-
 The parts I am ordering are all ordered and on the way to me, so as soon as I have the kits from Glassman, I should have them in the mail the next day.

 Also. I have a few kits coming that arent claimed yet. If you want one, but haven't contacted me yet, please do so soon. When they're gone, they're gone.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_Just an update from my end-
 The parts I am ordering are all ordered and on the way to me, so as soon as I have the kits from Glassman, I should have them in the mail the next day.

 Also. I have a few kits coming that arent claimed yet. If you want one, but haven't contacted me yet, please do so soon. When they're gone, they're gone._

 

i paid $33 shipped for a first kit already, can i send $31 more for a 2nd kit? Thanks


----------



## chosen1

If you want another, go ahead and send it, I will put you down for 2.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_If you want another, go ahead and send it, I will put you down for 2._

 

$31 sent from xraytagx@mindspring.com thanks, that was the same address i sent the first $33 from


----------



## CBMC

What is your guys(anyone who has heard both) opinion on this buffer compared to Laracco's?


----------



## Glassman

nobody heard both yet, my Triad should arrive in a week or two and ppl is getting my prototype soon.. the only think I can say is that both designs are very similar in my opinion, both using different parts, but pretty much the same topology.. wait a few weeks till people build these and compare to Triad..


----------



## rayofsi

few weeks!! i hope you dont intend to send these snail mail to choosen1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 big question that my flunkie wanted me to ask
 have you tested your buffer on various cans to make sure they work well with both high Z and low Z loads?


----------



## Glassman

few weeks to get to you, it's at least a week to ship overseas and I'm still waiting for the last parts..

 we don't have many cans, but we tried Porta Pros without a problem, otherwise Senn HD650 and HD250..


----------



## CBMC

OK, could you mark me down for a set(enough for 1 ppa) and parts. Also, could you tell me where to paypal my money. I live in the United States.


----------



## Glassman

talk to chosen1, he's my american 'distributor' and also surf through the last pages of this thread, information everywhere..


----------



## rayofsi

hmm forgot to say this anywhere, but if you could, please send in a small box, they shouldnt cost more then a padded envelope.


----------



## CBMC

Have the parts for the buffers started rolling into the U.S. yet?


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CBMC* 
_Have the parts for the buffers started rolling into the U.S. yet?_

 

ditto


----------



## Glassman

I'm waiting for the plastic bags.. to save chosen1 his time.. might sound funny but it's true.. everything is on hand otherwise, I'm shipping it this week, I promise..


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_I'm waiting for the plastic bags.. to save chosen1 his time.. might sound funny but it's true.. everything is on hand otherwise, I'm shipping it this week, I promise.._

 

finally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 my black gates amp is missing just this buffer, and maybe a attenuator.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_I'm waiting for the plastic bags.. to save chosen1 his time.. might sound funny but it's true.. everything is on hand otherwise, I'm shipping it this week, I promise.._

 

shipped?


----------



## Glassman

of course


----------



## Nisbeth

/U.


----------



## Glassman

forgot to say, just the american orders


----------



## Nisbeth

/U.


----------



## Glassman

the problem lies in the output transistors, they're hard to get.. I have them ordered from Nedis, but god knows when they arrives.. american orders were shipped without them, chosen1 ordered them in the states and will add them to the bags prior to shipping.. we must wait


----------



## h3nG

looks like i missed this run...do you plan on making a second batch? if so when? thanks.


----------



## CBMC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_the problem lies in the output transistors, they're hard to get.. I have them ordered from Nedis, but god knows when they arrives.. american orders were shipped without them, chosen1 ordered them in the states and will add them to the bags prior to shipping.. we must wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am confused? If the american orders already shipped without the transistors then how were they added to the bags prior to being shipped? Will chosen1 ship the transitors in a seperate shipment?


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CBMC* 
_I am confused? If the american orders already shipped without the transistors then how were they added to the bags prior to being shipped? Will chosen1 ship the transitors in a seperate shipment?_

 

glassman shipped a box with everything bagged up to chosen1, chosen1 ordered the tranistors in the States, and will add them to the bags prior to reshipping it to the US buyers. I think thats what he meant. 



 BTW glassman, how was it shipped to chosen1?

 Thanks


----------



## chosen1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufokillerz* 
_glassman shipped a box with everything bagged up to chosen1, chosen1 ordered the tranistors in the States, and will add them to the bags prior to reshipping it to the US buyers. I think thats what he meant. _

 

Yes ufokillerz is correct. The kits have been shipped to me, I will add the output transistors then ship them out to everyone. Yes, before anyone asks I have the transistors in hand.

 -Tom


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_Yes ufokillerz is correct. The kits have been shipped to me, I will add the output transistors then ship them out to everyone. Yes, before anyone asks I have the transistors in hand.

 -Tom_

 

any clue how glassman shipped to you? i'm hoping EMS or something =P


----------



## chosen1

sorry, don't know.


----------



## Glassman

I'm leaving for a week, buffers will probably be in your mailbox sooner then I return, so there are a few pics of assembled boards, use it as a reference.. be careful with proper orientation of LEDs, small green dots on side.. transistors are 2G (on right half) and 4G (on left half), place them correctly.. big transistors are trivial, 2SC3421 on left, complement on right..

















 happy building!


----------



## rayofsi

Mr. Glassman still didnt say how it was shipped to chosen1 =\

 great pictures btw

 that spot directly on top of the GPDBMK3, is that just a blob of soldering connecting the 2 points?


----------



## h3nG

anyone ordered an extra one they dont need and would like to sell to me?


----------



## rayofsi

i'm hoping these parts to get choosen1 tomorrow =D


----------



## CBMC

Hopefully, but it could take a while(depending on the way he sent them). I ordered some capacitors from partsconnexion in Canada. I live in St. Louis, MO. The order was shipped June 22nd and I still have not received it. I got the bill and the shipping was only $2 so I can't really complain. I assume that these where sent surface mail (which in the U.S. costs just as much as airmail to canada). I guess what I am trying to say is that I hope that our boards were sent airmail.


----------



## rayofsi

i am thinking that pcb parts are light, so they should have atleast gone out airmail, and maybe express mail of some sort if its not too heavy, it should have only costed a bit more then airmail.


----------



## drewd

For what it's worth, airmail packages that I've sent from the US to Europe have been taking about a month to get there for some reason. So far, out of four packages sent on June 4th, one arrived July 2nd, two yesterday and one is still out there. I hope it doesn't work both ways!

 -Drew


----------



## CBMC

The post office is definitely moving much slower than usual lately. I don't know what the problem is.


----------



## Glassman

I sent them using priority airmail, from my personal expirience it usually takes like 8 days aprox. both ways.. EMS shipping is two times priority shipping and not worth those few days saved..

 hope there's no antiterrorist ten weeks long policy on packages from wild east


----------



## rayofsi

looks like it didnt make it before glassman made it back =P


----------



## chosen1

Good news. I recieved the kits today, and I will be shipping them out tomorrow.


----------



## rayofsi

i hope you have it written down that ufokillerz paid for a 2nd kit a bit after the first =P so 2 kits need to be sent to Raymond Tsang 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, dang first class is going to take sometime.
 think i should have asked for priority mail =P


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_Good news. I recieved the kits today, and I will be shipping them out tomorrow._

 

Woot..... that means they should be here Saturday at the latest. 
 Oh wait, rural Michigan postal service sucks. 
 Mid next week then.


----------



## chosen1

just a little tease.


----------



## CBMC

Is there any reference included in those packages to document what part goes where? Is that blob of solder just connecting the two points?


----------



## rayofsi

i am hoping that those parts dont get mangled from shipping with a padded envelope =\ if you feel like upgrading people to priority mail with the small boxes =P i'm sure people will reimburse you for it


----------



## dreamnid

I claim the bag all the way to the left with the recycling triangles on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are you also planning to put whatever presciption in the bags to stop any complaints of soldering the components?


----------



## Glassman

no prescriptions needed, everything will be here.. guys, it's really easy, all you have to do is check some pics of finished boards posted here and duplicate it..

 and yes, the thing in the middle is a blob of solder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you run into any problems, ask here, oki?


----------



## oneeyedhobbit

A little late getting into this, but has anyone compared this design to the Larocco diamond buffer?


----------



## Glassman

design or performance?


----------



## oneeyedhobbit

Both, really--though, not being a DIYer I must admit I'm more interested in performance.


----------



## zbuddah

yay they're state side!

 i'm looking forward to putting these buffers together even though i don't have a ppa : p 

 thanks to everybody involved


----------



## MisterX

Not to rain on the parade or anything but when does the second batch ship?


----------



## chosen1

The kits are now in the (somewhat capable) hands of the USPS.


----------



## Glassman

great work, we all should thank you for your service!

 sad news for non-US orders, transistors still nowhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if anyone wants, try to get the trannies localy, I can send you the kit withkout them right away if it helps..

 I'm eager to hear your impressions guys, build it fast and report back


----------



## Super-Gonzo

A big thanks to chosen1 for putting together the US kits


----------



## drewd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chosen1* 
_The kits are now in the (somewhat capable) hands of the USPS._

 

Thanks for the great effort - And thanks to Glassman, too, of course! Excellent transatlantic work to both of you!

 -Drew


----------



## guzzler

Cricklewood Electronics here in the UK stocks the right transistors. If anyone is interested I can add them to my order... PM me if you want me to

 No worries Glassman, it's not your fault and you've done all the hard work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 g


----------



## Glassman

just checked their offering.. dirt expensive but at least stock.. you should be looking for Y suffix versions (higher hFE)

 I have one set for shiggins and one for fiddler, I'd like to send them together with yours, you can add the trannies and ship them to these two gentlemen


----------



## guzzler

they stock the 2SC3412 in the Y version, but not the 2SA1358. Does that matter?

 g


----------



## CBMC

does the orientation of the 2SC3421 transitors make a difference?


----------



## Glassman

A1358 comes probably mixed, call them which version they stock and select C3421 according to it.. Y is better but O will work too..


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CBMC* 
_does the orientation of the 2SC3421 transitors make a difference?_

 

OF COURSE! check the pictures of assembled boards and do it exactly like on the pictures..


----------



## CBMC

where did chosen1 get these transistors? Will the distributer not do over seas shipping?


----------



## chosen1

I bought-out the price-preferred distributor, and still did not have enough. I then had to pay almost twice the price for the few(40-50) I still needed.


----------



## oneeyedhobbit

Does anyone have a response as to how these Diamond Buffers compare to the Laroccos?


----------



## chosen1

I don't know that anyone has heard both yet. I will be assembling mine tomorrow, but I've never been good at writing compairisons.

 I guess I may be the first to hear both of them.


----------



## CBMC

I saw that tangent had one in his ppa. I don't know if he has tried Loracco's though.


----------



## CBMC

Got my package today. Thanks. One question, I noticed that there where extra resistors and transistors sent. My question is how much audible benefit would be gained by matching the transistors and resistors? Pieces don't look like they will be too hard to solder. Most of the time putting this together will be organizing the pieces and making sure that they go in the right places.

 Edit: Out of curiosity is there any plans on releasing a schematic for this board?


----------



## CBMC

Just finished putting all of the smd chips on the board. Took me around 2 hours. Still have to put all the through hole parts on tommorow. What do you guys think the best way to clean the flux off this board is?


----------



## Glassman

use methanol..

 how many parts did you get? I was rather expecting someone coming short on parts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this really surprised me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you should be getting 12pcs of both smt transistors..

 I haven't mathed the trannies myself, so I really don't know how much of a benefit it could be, little to none I think..


----------



## CBMC

I miscounted. I had exactly enough parts. Everything seemed to go smoothly. Suprisingly the hardest thing was soldering the big transistors. That thick center pin really did not want to take solder, had to leave the heat on there for a few seconds to get the solder to flow. So none of the smd parts will be affected if i use acohol to clean the flux.


----------



## Glassman

alcohol is always good, you just need to keep within reasonable limits, I guess you undestand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you don't want your buffers drunk before they start to sing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and where's ufokillerz I ask!? the most eager man of the whole thread


----------



## CBMC

I wish my ppa was together so I could try this out. I still need to decide on a case for that. I am leaning towards a par metals case(saw tagents and it looks very nice), but would want to get the custom panels done which obviously would take awhile.


----------



## harkamus

CBMC, could you post a picture of your finished buffer? Thanks.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_alcohol is always good, you just need to keep within reasonable limits, I guess you undestand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you don't want your buffers drunk before they start to sing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and where's ufokillerz I ask!? the most eager man of the whole thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

my buffers not here yet!!!
 i sent one of my PPAs into misterx for retweaking, hoping that he would get the buffers and build and install it =P and i could send him one of my kits, but he didnt get it yet. dang it. He has my Blackgates PPA =\ I still have another ppa here that is totally bufferless that is waiting for your buffers


----------



## CBMC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *harkamus* 
_CBMC, could you post a picture of your finished buffer? Thanks._

 

These are definitely not the best pictures but they were taken with a cheap camera. 

 WARNING: Pictures are quite large. Around 500k each.

pic1 

pic2 

pic3 

pic4 


 I have not cleaned the board or applied the jumper across that bottom resistor yet.


----------



## drewd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CBMC* 
_These are definitely not the best pictures but they were taken with a cheap camera. 

 WARNING: Pictures are quite large. Around 500k each.
_

 

Uh oh, your host doesn't allow linking from outside web pages! It works if you cut and past into the address bar, though.

 They look great! Maybe mine will get here tomorrow.

 -Drew


----------



## Glassman

cool, nice work, just don't forget about that blob of solder, this connects the input pin to bases of the input transistors and it is intentional


----------



## CBMC

would I be better served to put a jumper there? To me it seems that solder would not have the best conductive properties. Let me know.


----------



## Glassman

do whatever you want, those two pads simply needs to be connected, I'm using blob of solder, you may use something else..


----------



## rayofsi

i noticed some 33R0 resistors, are those the same as the 330?


----------



## aos

Quote:


 i noticed some 33R0 resistors, are those the same as the 330? 
 

Yeah, just as 30 dollars is the same as 300 dollars. Sure, let's call it the same, I'll take the "overflow" of $270...


----------



## Glassman

33R0 is the same as 330.. in four digit notation it is 33 and zero after dot (33.0) while in the three digit notation it is 33 and zero nulls after, which in the end is the same as 33R.. there are for example 221 resistors that mean 22 and one null after and that's 220R..


----------



## rayofsi

this is weird, one of my kits seems to be missing the leds


----------



## CBMC

anyone else get these put together yet? If so, how do you like the sound?


----------



## MisterX

Yup, they are not quite as refined as the Loracco buffers but they are a nice upgrade over the "stock" buffers. 
 Well worth the $30. 
 My hat is off to you Glassman. 
 And teh Chosen one to.


----------



## CBMC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* 
_Yup, they are not quite as refined as the Loracco buffers but they are a nice upgrade over the "stock" buffers. 
 Well worth the $30. 
 My hat is off to you Glassman. 
 And teh Chosen one to._

 

do you have any pics of those buffers?


----------



## MisterX

This one?


----------



## MisterX

After helping three people debug their non working buffers it became apparent that the Picts need to be bumped. 
 So here ya go.
 Please make sure you install the transistors the right way and in the right locations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Note: the bottom Pict is for reference only (can you edit this Pict to show a final version?).... it shows what Glassman said about how the SMP transistors are located.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_ there are a few pics of assembled boards, use it as a reference.. be careful with proper orientation of LEDs, small green dots on side.. transistors are 2G (on right half) and 4G (on left half), place them correctly.. big transistors are trivial, 2SC3421 on left, complement on right..





















_


----------



## rayofsi

so by chance did anyone recieve an extra set of leds? =\


----------



## CBMC

NO, I had exactly enough of everything, thankfully.


----------



## Sovkiller

There is no way of placing those caps straight, vertical, or is there any reason for placing them like they were dancing????


----------



## CBMC

you can bend them so they are vertical. I think that they are bent like that so they can be soldered underneath since this board is only one sided.


----------



## rayofsi

my pics
http://xraytagx.home.mindspring.com/diamond/


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufokillerz* 
_my pics
http://xraytagx.home.mindspring.com/diamond/_

 

Wow.
 Ray, I have to ask one question:
 Who took those picts?


----------



## CBMC

looks like he has the same camera I have.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CBMC* 
_looks like he has the same camera I have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

my old canon s50 i cant use properly yet lolz


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufokillerz* 
_so by chance did anyone recieve an extra set of leds? =\_

 

was it a problem with just one kit package? I can send you the LEDs if you want, it's ultra expensive though, six smt LEDs flying in a padded mailer across the ocen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will you be ordering something from digikey in the near future? I can point you to the item to get, they shouldn't cost more then $1 together..

 my apologise


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_was it a problem with just one kit package? I can send you the LEDs if you want, it's ultra expensive though, six smt LEDs flying in a padded mailer across the ocen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will you be ordering something from digikey in the near future? I can point you to the item to get, they shouldn't cost more then $1 together..

 my apologise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

pm sent


----------



## Zemo

OK, how hot should these buggers get? And shouldn't they all get the same temp? They sound fine, but the ones plugged into my ground and left channel get ultra hot.....the transistors can burn my fingers if I leave 'em there. The one in the right channel doesn't get too got, just warm.

 What's up?

 -Z


----------



## commando

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zemo* 
_OK, how hot should these buggers get? And shouldn't they all get the same temp? They sound fine, but the ones plugged into my ground and left channel get ultra hot.....the transistors can burn my fingers if I leave 'em there. The one in the right channel doesn't get too got, just warm._

 

If it hurts when you put your finger on them, don't do it


----------



## rayofsi

they do get decently hot, but thats to be expected =P


----------



## Zemo

Yeah, yeah....That's what Marshall said too....or more accurately "put the da*n top back on and stop worrying already."

 I'm just worried about the fact that they don't all get hot to the same extent....whatever. If my amp blows up, I'm blaming all of you.

 -Z


----------



## Glassman

try swaping them among the channels and if one of them is getting less hot then the rest, check voltages across the 4R7 resistors at output, they should be all the same unless something went wrong..

 should be around 140mV..


----------



## Zemo

I already tried swapping, and it's no use. The buffer iteslf is getting hot, not the spot it's in.

 Votages...for the two buffers that get hot, I'm reading about 153mV accross both 4R7's. For the one buffer that doesn't get hot, I read about 25mV accross the resistor....what could be going on here?

 -Z


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zemo* 
_I already tried swapping, and it's no use. The buffer iteslf is getting hot, not the spot it's in.

 Votages...for the two buffers that get hot, I'm reading about 153mV accross both 4R7's. For the one buffer that doesn't get hot, I read about 25mV accross the resistor....what could be going on here?

 -Z_

 

that means zemo fudged up =P


----------



## Pappucho

I ran into a similar situation. After checking all of my soldering I ran into a transistor that had a leg not completely soldered. I'd suggest going through all of your soldering and double checking to make sure that everything is as it should be. You could also use a small toothpick to apply pressure to the legs to see if any move. Use extreme caution when doing this, you don't want to move any legs more than necessary.


----------



## h3nG

i've asked this before, but dont think it was answered.

 glassman, do you plan on doing a second run in the future?

 also, anyone here who no longer needs the intensil buffers would like to sell them at a discount to me?

 thanks!


----------



## Glassman

there will be a batch of 20 assembled sets once my distributor finaly deliver those japaneese transistors.. it's been a month since I ordered them and still nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll be selling those @ $50..


----------



## CBMC

what size pieces are these? I had some 0805 jumper resistors laying around and used them to replace the solder blob. The 0805 where smaller than any other resistors on the board. They were still large enough(barely) to reach to both pads. I thought I remember someone earlier in the post saying but I can't seem to find that post now.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CBMC* 
_what size pieces are these? I had some 0805 jumper resistors laying around and used them to replace the solder blob. The 0805 where smaller than any other resistors on the board. They were still large enough(barely) to reach to both pads. I thought I remember someone earlier in the post saying but I can't seem to find that post now._

 

they are 1206


----------



## Super-Gonzo

Has anyone else in the US not yet received their diamond buffer kits? I'm still waiting on mine, and I'm worried it got lost or mis-addressed.


----------



## Turing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Super-Gonzo* 
_Has anyone else in the US not yet received their diamond buffer kits? I'm still waiting on mine, and I'm worried it got lost or mis-addressed._

 

I recieved mine today and I'm in canada, but you might want to give it another few days.

 Thanks to Glassman and Chosen1 for putting this all together.


----------



## Jack Head

I'm in California and i got mine yesterday the 15th


----------



## Glassman

[size=small]*GOOD NEWS!*[/size]

 transistors are here! I'm getting them on monday and will be shipping all the kits for non-americans soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I should have enough parts for running second batch of 20 fully assembled sets of buffers ($50 each) soon.. since now I'm taking orders, so you all who are affraid to build one yourself, this is your chance, go ahead and shoot me a PM!


----------



## jamont

I'm having trouble figuring out how to solder the big transistors without incinerating the tiny SMD parts. Anyone have a suggestion? It's kinda tight in there...


----------



## Zemo

Got any actual kits for sale? Or only assembled sets? I'd love to get a kit....those things are fun to build!

 -Z


----------



## CBMC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamont* 
_I'm having trouble figuring out how to solder the big transistors without incinerating the tiny SMD parts. Anyone have a suggestion? It's kinda tight in there... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Don't push the transistors all the way through the board(I don't think the leads will go all the way through anyway). Then just apply heat to the pads where the legs go through. Apply the solder, if the pad is hot enough the solder should flow to the joint. My problem was that the legs were not getting hot enough and I had to leave the solder iron on there for about 10 seconds or else the solder would just ball up. Those legs are pretty thick(especially the middle one) so they take a while to heat up unless you have a really hot iron. My iron was just a 35w Weller.


----------



## jamont

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CBMC* 
_Don't push the transistors all the way through the board(I don't think the leads will go all the way through anyway). Then just apply heat to the pads where the legs go through. Apply the solder, if the pad is hot enough the solder should flow to the joint. My problem was that the legs were not getting hot enough and I had to leave the solder iron on there for about 10 seconds or else the solder would just ball up. Those legs are pretty thick(especially the middle one) so they take a while to heat up unless you have a really hot iron. My iron was just a 35w Weller._

 

Thanks, this was helpful. I stuck the first one in too far, second one was easier. After about 4 hours, one buffer done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but it seems to work!

 I measure about 155mV across each 4R7, does this seem about right?


----------



## Glassman

yes, that's right, now build the rest and be faster this time


----------



## Glassman

and bad news again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just talked to my friend and he told me the price of the trannies he got.. it's only one third of what I've ordered! god knows what came, hope it's balanced across both NPN and PNP types, otherwise GRRRRRR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 I'll tell you more tomorrow, I'm so sorry..


----------



## ITZBITZ

I've built four buffers out of the nine I ordered. Once of the first three shot to over 300F within 5 seconds so something was obviously screwed there. Built another one and replaced the smoking one and all is well.

 They sound VERY nice, at a quick listen I couldn't hear any difference between them and the Larocco buffer I removed. I haven't done any seriously listening, but easy to build, less than an hour per buffer.

 So on my next order, I hope we can order singles as well to supplement the smoked one I have on my desk.


----------



## Wooderson

Anyone have a source/part number for the "4G" transistors?

 I was just getting ready to start assembling mine, but I count exactly 11 of the 4G's in my kit. Bummer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would it be OK to use the ones I have for the left and right channels, and use the "new" ones for the ground channel? Or should I just order 12 so they all match?

 Thanks!


----------



## drewd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ITZBITZ* 
_I've built four buffers out of the nine I ordered. Once of the first three shot to over 300F within 5 seconds so something was obviously screwed there. Built another one and replaced the smoking one and all is well.

 They sound VERY nice, at a quick listen I couldn't hear any difference between them and the Larocco buffer I removed. I haven't done any seriously listening, but easy to build, less than an hour per buffer.

 So on my next order, I hope we can order singles as well to supplement the smoked one I have on my desk. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

At this point, I'm a little frustrated. I'm no slouch at SMD soldering, but so far, three built, one smoked and the other two get hot enough to start melting solder on one of the resistors.

 Also, I inadvertently put one of the big transistors in backwards. No big deal, I thought, I just desoldered it. But two pads and part of a trace lifted, just from one desolder. That's not good. Even the cheapest boards that I've had fabbed have held up better than that.

 I have six buffers left, but I'm not going to build them until I can figure out why the others are misbehaving so badly. I'm open to suggestions - I do not see any shorted connections or unsoldered pins.

 -Drew


----------



## rayofsi

both kits seemed to work fine for me =P, well minus the missing set of leds, it was quite a bit easier then expected =D 

 been enjoying my diamond buffer for days now


----------



## Zemo

What's the value of the SMD ceramic beneath the big WIMA cap? I need to get a replacement.....

 I agree about the poor quality boards thing...I tore up a couple traces too....and having some pads on the reverse side would be nice for the through hole stuff.

 -Z


----------



## CBMC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zemo* 
_having some pads on the reverse side would be nice for the through hole stuff.

 -Z_

 

I agree, if the cost is a couple of bucks more that would be a very nice upgrade. It is just not pratical to solder thru-hole pieces on the top of the board. Personally I like soldering the smd pieces better than the thru hole, maybe thats just me though.


----------



## rayofsi

i found the buffers quite easy to do after i completed my first, after that i batch built everything else. granted that the thru-holes would be easier to solder had there ben traces on the other side, this job is quite easy to do for anyone with decent soldering skills and equipment


----------



## ITZBITZ

The buffers sound great. For those that are interested in numbers, here are a few:

 Comparing the Emu in loopback mode to the Emu with the PPA/STEPS/OPA627/GLASSMAN_BUFFERS inline with a pair of DT880's connected at the same time.

RMAA Results


----------



## Glassman

WOW those are hell of a numbers! I almost can't believe it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm so pleased you like them [size=xx-small]'coz that will make hundreds people more ordering them, hihi[/size] could you, please, redo the measurements at 24bits? that will show the real capability, 16bit simply can't catch in!

 Wooderson, I was checking all bags for the exact count of the transistors, because it was not me who was putting them together, I asked a female friend of mine to do that, she owed me something, this was excelent way how to refund 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes I realised there were a few bags with just 11 4G trannies, but I've added one more in such case, it should be there, check it!

 I can asure you, after I sell out those 20 assembled sets and there still will be interest (which I hope for) the next batch will be double sided w/ plated through holes..


----------



## rayofsi

double sided plating sounds great, i'll be in for more kits =D
 mind as well upgrade all the caps while your at it ;D


----------



## Glassman

I've already ordered 100nF polypropylenes - 500pcs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I knew they will be of good use 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they will replace the combination of 100n ceramic + 10n polyprop. and as the boards will be plated through, they will be easily solderable from the bottom too..


----------



## rayofsi

taller legs would be cool, some of us have caps under the buffers.


----------



## Wooderson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_ Wooderson, I was checking all bags for the exact count of the transistors, because it was not me who was putting them together, I asked a female friend of mine to do that, she owed me something, this was excelent way how to refund 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes I realised there were a few bags with just 11 4G trannies, but I've added one more in such case, it should be there, check it!_

 

Glassman, you are indeed correct. I did finally find it. Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I haven't had any problems with the pads or traces lifting yet (knock on wood). But being able to solder on the bottom of the board for the cap and big transistors would really be nice. Just my $.02 though.


----------



## ITZBITZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_could you, please, redo the measurements at 24bits?_

 

I can do that, if somebody can explain to me how to setup the Emu to do that. Actually, I think I can redo it at 24-bit, but going higher than 48 KHz I haven't figured out yet...

 The measurements were all taken using custom-built 1/4" to RCA cables (Canare StarQuad) built according to the RANE system interconnection guidelines that are linked on the PPA page (thanks Morsel).

 As far as the boards go, I know I'd like another few sets of them as they are not too difficult to build, sound great and fit the PPA board perfectly.


----------



## jamont

If you are fitting these to an existing PPA, is there any reason not to remove C3 from the PPA? The caps on the buffer board appear to make C3 redundant, and it gets in the way of seating the buffers.


----------



## drewd

In my earlier post about the pads and traces lifting, I don't want anybody to think that I was slamming the work that Glassman did on the buffers - on the contrary, I think that he's done a great job in designing, kitting and distributing the buffers. Looking back at my message, I'm afraid that it sounded harsher than I intended, so if anybody (especially Glassman) was offended, my apologies!

 -Drew


----------



## drewd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamont* 
_If you are fitting these to an existing PPA, is there any reason not to remove C3 from the PPA? The caps on the buffer board appear to make C3 redundant, and it gets in the way of seating the buffers._

 

Nope, there's no good reason to keep C3. In fact, if your amp wasn't oscillating before, they aren't necessary at all. I don't think that, other than the first one that I built, I've ever populated C3.

 -Drew


----------



## Glassman

drewd, you're cool..

 I've spoken to my friend once again, he told me there's circa 18pcs of both trannies, so that should cover all the - yet unsent - non-american orders, but there will be no left for the assembled boards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna talk seriously to the distributor.. I've ordered 75pcs of each and received barely 20, after a month of wait that's not good really..


----------



## guzzler

Received mine today, finished them today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 30 mins per board for the race counter... Nice boards to work with, aside from the through hole parts which has already been said and noted.

 g


----------



## aos

I received mine today and finished them. It took me about 35 minutes to solder SMD parts for all three but another 45 to solder big transistors and pins and 0.1uF caps (those weren't too bad) and figure out what's up with pins that are just floating and which are actually supposed to be connected to something! Without through-plating those transistors are REALLY tough! Looking back, better way to do it would be to bend the pins so that transistors are mounted kind of like wings - there's enough space and it makes it low profile (you can solder wima horizontally too). You should've used much bigger rings for pins and make connections in a few places like transistors as it's fairly time consuming to cut a small piece of wire to put as a bridge.

 They work fine, and LEDs are cute. Transistors get pretty hot - probably draws a bit too much to be used with battery board.


----------



## Karlosak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_...probably draws a bit too much to be used with battery board._

 

No problems with batteries here. Although the batteries I use are different beasts - 20 NiMh AA cells with 2100mAh capacity. Enough power for these hungry babies (even for my "a bit maxed-out" version that draws about 45mA per channel and needs cooling) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## aos

That's not standard battery setup - due to Hammond size, 12 AAA batteries are "standard" so if buffer draws more than 4 HA-5002 it's replacing, it is too much (actually 12 buffers would've been too much for a portable to start with). I measured 141mA which is about 20mA more than with 12 HA-5002. You'd only get 5 hours from batteries. So it isn't really (practical) battery friendly, which is fine for most people.


----------



## Glassman

Nisbeth, endia, steel - your buffers have been sent today, they should arrive in a week or so!


----------



## Karlosak

Sorry for confusion, my mistake. The battery combo I use has nothing in common with "standard" battery board configuration. As you said, indeed, it isn't really (practical) battery friendly.


----------



## Nisbeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_Nisbeth, endia, steel - your buffers have been sent today, they should arrive in a week or so!_

 


 Great!


 /U.


----------



## steel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_Nisbeth, endia, steel - your buffers have been sent today, they should arrive in a week or so!_

 

Thanks ...


----------



## primer

Just out of curiosity, what size tip are you guys using to solder these buggers?


----------



## CBMC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *primer* 
_Just out of curiosity, what size tip are you guys using to solder these buggers?_

 

I would suggest about a 1/32" tip, although larger can be used with caution.


----------



## intlplby

are there any of these sets with parts left?


----------



## jamont

Has anyone tried these with OPA637's? Does this combination work ok or go into oscillation?


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamont* 
_Has anyone tried these with OPA637's? Does this combination work ok or go into oscillation?_

 

works fine ;D


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intlplby* 
_are there any of these sets with parts left?_

 

I'm waiting for the trannies, I'll report back once they will be ready..


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamont* 
_Has anyone tried these with OPA637's? Does this combination work ok or go into oscillation?_

 

There has been a few complains about this OPAmp, and the original diamond buffer (LaRocco) even I had a bad experience with it, IMO it is not a safe bet 100%, so I would avoid using it....right now mine has it installed, but this was a chance I would like to take....Even if you go to LaRocco forum you will see it in the not reco list....


----------



## Glassman

nothing wrong with OPA637 at all, in fact it's used in the PPA I test the buffers in..


----------



## scottder

Oppps..meant to create new thread


----------



## endia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_Nisbeth, endia, steel - your buffers have been sent today, they should arrive in a week or so!_

 

oh, thanks Glassman


----------



## steel

I already received today.
 Thanks,

 I do not have the confidence to be allowed to complete


----------



## Glassman

for all of you interested - another *8 kits or assembled sets are ready*, shoot me a PM if you want some!


----------



## Sovkiller

Wow, you work pretty fast, man, you just got them and already have 8 set of boards assembled? That's fast....I'm anxious in trying yours, and compare it to the Larocco tweaked one I will have pretty soon in mine.......


----------



## ITZBITZ

Personally, I would pay the extra $ to have a two-layer board with plated through holes for the next run.

 Any idea when the next set of board will be run?


----------



## jamont

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ITZBITZ* 
_Personally, I would pay the extra $ to have a two-layer board with plated through holes for the next run.

 Any idea when the next set of board will be run?_

 

Yea, same here. It's a nice project, mine are working great, but they were a real pain to build.


----------



## Glassman

I have boards enough for circa 20 sets from the first batch, once they sell out, I'm running next batch, dual layered boards already in works, 10% smaller than the current ones with better pins.. if you want them soon, promote the buffers so they will sell out faster, that's the only recipee I have for you


----------



## dreamnid

Well, since this is my first group - buy - here are my pics  Excuse the mess

http://www.dreamnid.com/weblogs/drea...ves/000645.php

 Now only if I had a PPA to use it with ...


----------



## Super-Gonzo

Well, I got a chance to build these buffers last night (er... this morning I guess) but when I finally plugged them in, I got a lot of distortion!

 Here's what I've noted so far:
 1. In the ground channel, the led on the right side (the 2G side) of the board flickers on and off, increasing in brightness as the amplifier is turned up. None of the other led's do this.

 2. There is no difference in sound, or observation #1 if I move the buffers around. (Either they all have the same problem, or its something to do with my PPA's configuration.)

 3. I am getting sound out of both channels, but it is really distorted and scratchy. It sounds almost as if it were being overdriven, like an electric guitar. The effect gets worse as I turn the volume up.

 4. Nothing seems to be getting too hot, as far as the buffers or opamps are concerned. Although, I haven't left them on for more than a couple minutes.

 My ppa is running AD8610's biased to Class A, with a gain of about 5.5. Other than the gain, the amp is straight out of tangent's recommended parts list. The power supply is a standard STEPS running at 24V. (Oh, and I've probably got way more capacitance than is needed in C1, if that matters.) The only change I made before putting in the buffers was to remove the C3's I had previously installed.

 Perhaps one of the pins for the ground channel isn't making good contact? I've carefully inspected my soldering work, I have yet to see any obvious solder bridges, or mismatched parts (but I was tired, so I'll check again.)

 I gave up at about 5.30am this morning, I'll spend some more time tonight troubleshooting. If anyone can give me some ideas as to things I can check or test, please let me know. I can take pics of the buffers if that would be helpful.

 Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Glassman

definitely take pics of all of them..

 and don't try to work late night/early morning, I know what I'm speaking about.. I've tried that when assembling my DAC, I made lots of mistakes but when I'm fresh I usually get everything right..

 the blinking LED is definitely a problem.. have you placed the LEDs in right direction? we'll see from the pics you take, right?


----------



## Super-Gonzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_definitely take pics of all of them..

 and don't try to work late night/early morning, I know what I'm speaking about.. I've tried that when assembling my DAC, I made lots of mistakes but when I'm fresh I usually get everything right..

 the blinking LED is definitely a problem.. have you placed the LEDs in right direction? we'll see from the pics you take, right?_

 

Yeah, thats good advice. Squinting to see those tiny part numbers through tired eyes is no easy task.

 I placed all the LEDs with the green dot to the upper right. If I had reversed them, they would simply not turn on at all, correct?

 I'll definately get some pics tonight.


----------



## Super-Gonzo

I'm feeling pretty stupid right about now. I spent hours staring at these buffers last night, and I found the problem in the first 15 minutes when I came home from work today.

 The problem turned out to be 3 reversed transistors. Last night I could have swore I put them in the right way... today they were backwards. Must be those damned transistor gnomes! bastards.

 Did I mention that I lifted 2 traces desoldering the offending transistor? Doh! Had to do some creative lead forming to fix that. 

 Anyways, I'm now contentedly listening to Mozart piano concertos. I must say, these buffers are a step above the 5002's. Definately worth the effort.

 Thank you Glassman for putting these boards together. A very enjoyable upgrade.


----------



## Super-Gonzo

and a little pr0n:

http://groups.msn.com/KevinsPictureDepot/audio.msnw 

 (Note my fix for a lifted trace on the right channel buffer)


----------



## Glassman

exactly my case, I reversed many tantalum caps when assembling the DAC, I've been checking it at that time and found nothing wrong.. next day I looked at it briefly and noticed all of my mistakes instantly and almost couldn't believe it..

 anyway, happy to hear they're working for you!


----------



## Glassman

another news: I now *accept PayPal*! you can pay to BaronVonZemo@gmail.com, don't forget to mention it's for the buffers..


----------



## steel

That's really a good news.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My DB Already completed


----------



## Glassman

nice job steel, now you should go ahead building the amp itself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I'll be out of the town for a week from today, 6.8.04.. I'm shipping two assembled sets to CingKrab and hOrrOr and two kits to JCTW and jhawk22, next orders will be taken care of after I get back..

 I've just talked to my distributor and they said they shipped the rest of my order yesterday! that's seriously a breakpoint, once I'll get back I should have enough parts for about 20 sets and/or kits!

 cheers!


----------



## Super-Gonzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_I've just talked to my distributor and they said they shipped the rest of my order yesterday! that's seriously a breakpoint, once I'll get back I should have enough parts for about 20 sets and/or kits!_

 

Are these the new smaller, 2 layer boards? If so, I'd like some


----------



## DaKi][er

is there any possibility of getting sets now or at least in the next month or 2?

 i have the equipment to make my own boards at school otherwise and wouldnt mind the challange of doing a smd board like that (least it isnt dual layer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 thanks,


----------



## hottyson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Super-Gonzo* 
_Squinting to see those tiny part numbers through tired eyes is no easy task._

 

If you guys in the USA need a magnifier lamp to check over your soldering, Wal-Mart has one for $10.





 . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_[size=xx-small]It looks like this.[/size]_

 It comes with a screw tight clamp mount that I have clamped down to my desk. I don't use it when I solder as it gets in the way. Afterwards I use it to recheck my soldering and to locate unwanted and/or potential problems. The well spent $10 goes a long way in making me feel more assured.


----------



## dreamnid

Of course, if you really want to check your soldering, you can always goto your local university (like RIT, for example) and use their x-ray examining machine to check for cracks . For extreme cases only


----------



## jhawk22

Glassman, many thanks for the fast shipping. The diamond buffers arrived today. Took roughly 3 hours to assemble. Pics attached(not the best quality).


----------



## ARL002

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Super-Gonzo* 
_and a little pr0n:

http://groups.msn.com/KevinsPictureDepot/audio.msnw 

 (Note my fix for a lifted trace on the right channel buffer)_

 

what guitar is that in the background? looks like a mayes


----------



## jhawk22

After firing up glassmans buffers today, 2 of them didnt light and started smoking. I've seen this happened to a few others in the thread. Anyone have any idea why? I checked all solder joints and chip orientation over and over.

 The 33ro on the right of the board(facing you)lit up on both buffers and turned red. Smoke came from the same area. 

 The other board seemed ok, leds lit, and stayed cool. I swapped it in each channel also.


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jhawk22* 
_After firing up glassmans buffers today, 2 of them didnt light and started smoking. I've seen this happened to a few others in the thread. Anyone have any idea why? I checked all solder joints and chip orientation over and over.

 The 33ro on the right of the board(facing you)lit up on both buffers and turned red. Smoke came from the same area. 

 The other board seemed ok, leds lit, and stayed cool. I swapped it in each channel also._

 

how long did you have it on? are you sure the LEDs were on in the correct direction?


----------



## jhawk22

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufokillerz* 
_how long did you have it on? are you sure the LEDs were on in the correct direction?_

 


 It was on for 5 seconds 3 times(I swapped them in different channels). The leds are positioned correctly with the green dots facing right. Only one works.


----------



## Glassman

you're not the first and most probably not the last one who did something wrong, we'll work something out


----------



## Super-Gonzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ARL002* 
_what guitar is that in the background? looks like a mayes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's a Conn. I've had it for several years, and it was given to me by someone who owned it for several years before me. I'd guess its from the mid 80's or so. Sounds really quite good, although the action is a little higher than I would prefer.


----------



## Glassman

last four buffer kits and/or assembled sets available! hurry up!


----------



## DaKi][er

i'll take one


----------



## intlplby

remember to save one for the wire exchange


----------



## Glassman

intlplby, don't worry, you're getting yours..

 last kit/set available!


----------



## aos

It took me quite a while to figure out what a "green dot" is and where it is. I am surprised more people didn't have problems assembling these buffers.


----------



## CBMC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_It took me quite a while to figure out what a "green dot" is and where it is. I am surprised more people didn't have problems assembling these buffers._

 

are you refering to the dots on the leds?


----------



## steel

use this DB

 which bias level is better?

 now my bias level is 1mA for HD650


----------



## Glassman

opamp biasing has little to do with certain phones, 1 to 2mA will do, I personaly use 2mA just because the opamps can stand it without going too warm.. try for yourself, I don't think there is much of a difference..


----------



## jamont

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aos* 
_It took me quite a while to figure out what a "green dot" is and where it is. I am surprised more people didn't have problems assembling these buffers._

 

Me too. I'm still amazed that mine actually work.


----------



## Glassman

last buffer set sold, this is the end of the GPDBmk3, thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 PS: I still have some boards and parts left for those of you who screwed something up and have any non-working ones, I can send them your way upon your request..


----------



## jamont

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_last buffer set sold, this is the end of the GPDBmk3, thank you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks very much for a cool project!


----------



## guzzler

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamont* 
_Thanks very much for a cool project!_

 

 I'll second that!

 g


----------



## flecom

are there any kits left?


----------



## Glassman

no, I'm working on new version, should be available in 4-6 weeks I estimate..


----------



## flecom

4-6 weeks? ouch man, very ouch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *start tapping foot*

 has it been 4 weeks yet?


----------



## rayofsi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flecom* 
_4-6 weeks? ouch man, very ouch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *start tapping foot*

 has it been 4 weeks yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

first post in this thread dated 4-19-2004


----------



## Sovkiller

Let us know about the updates of this new board, OK?


----------



## flecom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_no, I'm working on new version, should be available in 4-6 weeks I estimate.._

 

!=

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufokillerz* 
_first post in this thread dated 4-19-2004_

 

<3


----------



## ARL002

I got my kits! thanks Glassman!

 So i put one together and plugged it in, and something started smoking! it was the part "EER0" but the Es are backwards. Was there a specific orientation for this part? I believe that I put them in correctly with the Es facing the side with the "GPDBmk3" logo. The LED on the side that wasn't smoking works, but the smoking side (side with the 2G transistors) doesn't. Any thoughts? and Glassman do you have any extra parts in case i burned it out? or point me in the direction where i can get them? thanks!


----------



## Glassman

direction of resistors is not critical, you either put wrong transistors in wrong places or made unwanted solder joint somewhere.. double check against the published photos.. its 33R0 in fact, standard 1206 smt resistor 33Ohms, you can get it pretty much anywhere..

 this is the reason why the next buffers will come with surface mount parts already populated on mashine.. too many people screwed something up..


----------



## ARL002

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_or made unwanted solder joint somewhere.._

 

Yeah I think that was the case, I found a piece of solder underneth one of the caps right after I posted. I think it was probably connecting something that it wasn't suppose to. Is there a general part list in which I can just order an extra set in case i screw anything else up? thanks for your help Glassman!


----------



## Juergen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_.... the next buffers will come with surface mount parts already populated on mashine.._

 


 Since all the parts appear surface mount to me, does this mean there will only be an assembled version (except for maybe the pins)? Also, would this raise the price?

 edit: oops, i was looking at the rendering in your very first post. I forgot the 3 larger parts (cap and 2 transistors?).


----------



## Glassman

current price estimate: $40 for a kit, $55 for assembled and tested set excluding shipping.. not a dramatic change I'd say..


----------



## Heady

Glassman, a 30% increase is not dramatic? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sorry, couldn't resist that. 

 Can I ask how does the buffer board connect to the PPA board. I am planning a PPA clone with some changes but want to retain the option of using your buffers.

 Are there just pins to fit into one of the buffer sockets OR are there pins for all 4 sockets?

 Thanks.


----------



## Sovkiller

Glassman:
 Is there any way of making the pins a little bit longer? With maybe a plastic piece, that may serve as an stopper or so. The ones on the first batch, are a little bit short and the board touches the little caps underneath and don't let the board seat completelly flat on the sockets....


----------



## Glassman

those little caps between sockets shouldn't be used, they help nothing just waisting space.. 

 to stay compatible, you need those four sockets positioned exactly like on the original board, however you don't need to connect input to all of them, just to the one connected through R14 resistor, the rest of 1k resistors are not needed..


----------



## Nisbeth

Glassman, if I want to exhange the LED's to another colour, which resistors should I change (and to what value)?


 /U.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_those little caps between sockets shouldn't be used, they help nothing just waisting space.. 

 to stay compatible, you need those four sockets positioned exactly like on the original board, however you don't need to connect input to all of them, just to the one connected through R14 resistor, the rest of 1k resistors are not needed.._

 

Well Phil (ppl) had my amp for a whole month there, tweaking and re-tweaking it, and these caps were not removed, and I was always using diamond boards, not the Elantecs, so I will ask him though, to see if I could remove them, then....


----------



## Glassman

if you want to use different color, check the forward voltage at 1mA current, then substract 0.7V for the ccs transistor's Vbe and choose different resistor instead of 220R that will give you 5mA.. default config use red LEDs with forward voltage of 1.8V, after substraction it's 1.1V, divide that by 220R and you get 5mA..


 Phil had no reason to remove them since they doesn't block the way for his buffers, next time I'll tell him to remove all C3s in case someone would like to use my buffers too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 both Phils and mine buffers have much better and larger caps onboard, C3 are there just-in-case for the Intersil buffers..


----------



## Nisbeth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_if you want to use different color, check the forward voltage at 1mA current, then substract 0.7V for the ccs transistor's Vbe and choose different resistor instead of 220R that will give you 5mA.. default config use red LEDs with forward voltage of 1.8V, after substraction it's 1.1V, divide that by 220R and you get 5mA.._

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (runs off to buy SMD-leds in cool colours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


 /U.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_Phil had no reason to remove them since they doesn't block the way for his buffers, next time I'll tell him to remove all C3s in case someone would like to use my buffers too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 both Phils and mine buffers have much better and larger caps onboard, C3 are there just-in-case for the Intersil buffers.._

 

Thanks Glassman, Phil told me the same, to remove them, so I just removed them. So that means that they are not even necessary for the Intersil, why placing them, there, then


----------



## Juergen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_.... So that means that they are not even necessary for the Intersil, why placing them, there, then_

 

For non-Intersil buffers (Burr Brown, etc)?


----------



## bubbamc119

Put me down for a set out of your next lot mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Bubba


----------



## shiggins

I made my buffers a couple of weeks ago. Was worried because it was my first bit of SMD and I only had fat solder/iron. The first buffer was a breeze and I knocked it out in 45 mins. The second, I was obviously a bit cocky and managed to lift the pads while trying to jumper them. Oops. Did a bit of a botch job repair using chopped off component leads - See the left hand buffer in the picture below. I had to expose part of a trace and attempt to solder to that. Not too sure if I was successfull or not, but it sounds good, so heh. I assume (hope) that if the repair was unsuccessfull that the buffer would simply not work or would sound like crap. Are there any kind of tests I can do to check?






 Anyway, things are sounding tip-top. Cheers Glassman.

 Here's the obligatory night-time shot:





 Steve.

 PS. More poor photography here


----------



## flecom

do you think these buffers would work in my peter millet hybrid amp?

 it currently has 1 BUF634T per channel (2ch no ground ch)

 obviously it wouldent be a drop-in replacement like in the PPA, but if i wired it in place of the BUF634T with some nice interconnect wire or something?

 also if it would be possible would you consider making a kit with just two buffers?


----------



## Glassman

yes they should work fine in place of any IC buffer, we can certainly work it out with just two channels..


----------



## Qpedejo

Nice buffer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 One q though...does the transistors need to be matched if u use it inside a loop?

 /qpedejo


----------



## flecom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_yes they should work fine in place of any IC buffer, we can certainly work it out with just two channels.._

 







 your awesome


----------



## guzzler

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Qpedejo* 
_Nice buffer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 One q though...does the transistors need to be matched if u use it inside a loop?_

 

 no, the opamp will correct for the DC mismatch

 g


----------



## Nisbeth

I assembled one set of my buffers today. I guess I got a little carried away while working because I managed to switch the caps and the LED's on all three boards (so the LED's are on the pads for the caps and vice versa). Now, the question is has this unfortunate mistake (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) damaged anything else on the buffers ?.


 /U.


----------



## Glassman

not, in fact they should work just fine even with this mistaken config, they have lower bias though.. take your time any try to desolder them and put in proper place, not a big deal


----------



## Nisbeth

OK, thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 /U.


----------



## doobooloo

does anyone know where chosen1 is?

 my two buffer kits were supposed to have shipped two weeks ago, but they're still not here. I need to build a PPA for a commission this weekend and not having buffers is just not cool.

 surely, shipped within the US, no shipment should take more than two weeks, right?

 anyway, i've been trying to PM/email chosen1 without success... seems like he's extra busy.

 i need my buffers...


----------



## Glassman

I'm sorry about your buffers.. chosen1 had some troubles in his personal life I believe, I haven't heard from him for ages


----------



## doobooloo

Just got a PM back from chosen1 and apparently he had typed my address incorrectly and he just got the buffers returned to him.

 Hopefully the kits are still fine and hopefully I'll get them by early next week...


----------



## doobooloo

Another update...

 chosen1 said he shipped out the buffers via Priority Mail on Sunday, but it's Friday and the buffers are STILL not here. I don't know why the buffers are having such a hard time getting here, I've getting on average 3-4 packages a week from Mouser and Digi-Key via Priority Mail for the past two weeks and NONE had problems - they all took less than 3 days to arrive. This is getting very frustrating. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry for venting here on the public forum, but I am just wondering if others who ordered from chosen1 got their buffers in time.

 Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## BradJudy

As long as this is bumped, what's the current ETA on the next round of buffers? I bought a pair of 5002s for each channel on my work-in-progress PPA (hopefully the par-metal case will arrive today) and I'm anxious to get a set of Glassman's buffers.


----------



## Glassman

still working on it, available when available, I don't want to give any time-frames, but should be less then a four weeks


----------



## doobooloo

Kinda late, but my buffers arrived today and are now assembled!

 The buffers were easier to assemble than I imagined, one set (3 buffers) took about an hour to put together. I had ordered two sets so I spent about two hours total. My back and neck hurt from playing around with such small parts, I hope the results are worth it!

 I can't test them right now because the PPA they're supposed to be in are not complete. But here is one pic of my buffers installed:


----------



## Heady

Doobooloo, can you take a pic of the other side of the Glassman buffer, I am planning my PPA now but using my own board. I would like to see the pin config so I can place the sockets in the right places.

 Thanks.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Heady* 
_Doobooloo, can you take a pic of the other side of the Glassman buffer, I am planning my PPA now but using my own board. I would like to see the pin config so I can place the sockets in the right places.

 Thanks._

 

Well IMO, you can miss the pins position, the two pins in the front, go one on each corner of the sockets, there is no other way of placing them in the wrong way, or one of the pins will be out of the socket then.....


----------



## Heady

Sovkiller, from previous posts, Glassman has implied the other sockets need to be in the same position as the PPA layout and then he has also said only the socket to which R14 is connected is necessary. All I wanted is to eyeball what the pin layout look like. A picture is worth a thousand words?? 

 US$40 is a big price to pay if it won't fit.

 Thanks.


----------



## MisterX

Does this help?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_
















 happy building!_


----------



## Heady

Thanks MisterX. Your pics helped a lot. Would you have the pic of the underside of the board? Sorry if I am asking too much.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Heady* 
_Sovkiller, from previous posts, Glassman has implied the other sockets need to be in the same position as the PPA layout and then he has also said only the socket to which R14 is connected is necessary. All I wanted is to eyeball what the pin layout look like. A picture is worth a thousand words?? 

 US$40 is a big price to pay if it won't fit.

 Thanks._

 

Of course this diamond board was designd for the PPA layout, I was assuming you ahve the PPA, not other amp, sorry. Even when it works in other topologies, the pinout is for the PPA, in that case, all you have to do it look at the PPA board in tangent's page...I think that this is one fo the best pics of the board.....


----------



## doobooloo

Well, if you're so interested...






 It's not exactly exciting down there.


----------



## flecom

well im going to use a pair of them in a millet amp which is designed for a 634T (TO92 package 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 just going to use some wires and wire it from the buffer to the millet pcb with some silver wire or something... works for me


----------



## Sovkiller

Just as a clarification, for the nice pic dobooloo posted, the silver dots are the legs from the big trasistors and the cap, so this is the back of the board, applying the logic then, the two pins at the bottom of the pic (more separate) are the ones that face the OPAmps, looking toward the center of the board, the other more closer ones, on the top of the pic, must look to the power caps, then you have to find out which pins correspond in the PPA board, and find out later the purpose (signal and which for power etc...)

 I suggest you to just drop a PM to Glassman, he will be your safest bet to get help with the topology.


----------



## flecom

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_EQUIPO HEAD-FI ESPAÑOL. DILE ADIOS A TUS AHORROS!!!_

 

LOL oh man first time i actually read your sig i almost spit water all over my keyboard lol


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flecom* 
_LOL oh man first time i actually read your sig i almost spit water all over my keyboard lol_

 

Actually it is not mine, it was created by my friend Onix's (a very funny guy), in fact it should read "Equipo Head-Fi Hispano", but as well I feel the need of using it....i will modify it one of this days, too lazy for that...LOL...


----------



## doobooloo

Sorry, I am a Korean and know no Spanish... Sov, could you translate your sig for me?


----------



## Sovkiller

Something like: "Spanish (or better Hispanic) Head-Fi Team, Say Good Bye to your Savings" or something like that....


----------



## flecom

EQUIPO HEAD-FI ESPAÑOL. DILE ADIOS A TUS AHORROS!!!

 =

 Team Head-Fi Spanish. Say goodbye to your savings!!!


----------



## Heady

Gee, doobooloo and Sovkiller, that's exactly what I need to see! Thanks, much appreciate your help. Sovkiller, I fully agree with your sig in Spanish too.


----------



## doobooloo

Aah. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Sovkiller

Hey Glassman:

 Any news about the new revision of the buffers yet...????


----------



## Glassman

I'm getting another set of protoboards today, will buy necessary parts and build during the weekend, next week I'll set up listening test which will hopefuly lead me towards the final version, then start 'mass' production..


----------



## alexm

First of all, thank you Glassman (and of course ppl, Peranders, uhm, forgot anyone ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) for the discrete buffers, they really sound good to me.

 I noticed they run quite hot, so I thought of adding on the accessible side of each one of those little heatsinks for ram modules (like these , about 20x9x6 mm, alu or copper), and maybe drilling a row of holes over them in my lansing enclosure (as extreme measure only, as the holes invariably turn into dust intakes).
 What do you think, could it be a sensible precaution to extend their life or it's overkill and I'm just being paranoid? Thank you

 Alessandro


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alexm* 
_First of all, thank you Glassman (and of course ppl, Peranders, uhm, forgot anyone ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) for the discrete buffers, they really sound good to me.

 I noticed they run quite hot, so I thought of adding on the accessible side of each one of those little heatsinks for ram modules (like these , about 20x9x6 mm, alu or copper), and maybe drilling a row of holes over them in my lansing enclosure (as extreme measure only, as the holes invariably turn into dust intakes).
 What do you think, could it be a sensible precaution to extend their life or it's overkill and I'm just being paranoid? Thank you

 Alessandro_

 

No need of heatsinking them, if you want this is up to you, but I had mine 24/7 since I got them, and no problems to the date


----------



## llmobll

Anyword on the Complete Kits Glassman? I can't wait to get a hold of some!


----------



## Kenny12

are there any surplus stocks left =D


----------



## Glassman

actually yes, I just need to buy some legs.. so if anyone want some of the 'surplus' GPDBmk3, shoot me a PM.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 the new ones won't be here that soon, still prototyping and tuning..


----------



## BradJudy

Are the 'surplus' ones available assembled?


----------



## Glassman

on request, why not..


----------



## rayofsi

how goes the new buffers?


----------



## individual6891

Any updates?


----------



## Juergen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *individual6891* 
_Any updates? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Check out http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99001

 Glassman and peranders are both looking into organizing a group buy.

 This is great news!


----------



## @sia@home

I was just about to pay for $108USD for OPA633KP

 Then I read Diamond Buffers are better.

 Any chances of me getting a set?


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Juergen* 
_Check out http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99001

 Glassman and peranders are both looking into organizing a group buy._

 

I'm off, so it seems. An another time maybe. The interest is zero.


----------



## Glassman

I'm going through with second generation of PPA Diamond Buffers, getting quotes from manufacturers, already have some parts ready.. hope it won't take too long..


----------



## @sia@home

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_I'm going through with second generation of PPA Diamond Buffers, getting quotes from manufacturers, already have some parts ready.. hope it won't take too long.._

 

Are you starting another thread for the new one, with a new list of buyers etc.

 Also would it be advisable for the buyer to do the work himself, ie just parts unassembled to I dunno learn smt soldering? or is there a large chance of doing something wrong?


----------



## Glassman

there's not gonna be any smt soldering required for the second generation buffers, all surface mount parts will be already on the board, all you have to do is solder one polypropylene film cap, two TO126 transistors and plug in the legs.. my experience is that relatively lot of people screwed up, so I've decided to provide the boards mashine populated..

 there probably won't be any group buy, ordering through email or PM this time.. I'll place a Mall-Fi ad..


----------



## Glassman

just to let you know, things are moving forward, I'll receive sample parts from the reels that will be used on final products and will build the final prototype with them, once working, I'm placing order for the boards and two weeks later the boards are gonna be populated on mashine, then I'm ready to ship! no problems with sourcing parts on horizont this time, luckily.. knock-knock..


----------



## Vadi

Glassman, I'm very interested in your buffers. I see nobody ordered 12 boards. Is there any reason not to use 12 on the PPA?


----------



## BradJudy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vadi* 
_Glassman, I'm very interested in your buffers. I see nobody ordered 12 boards. Is there any reason not to use 12 on the PPA?_

 

Because you can only fit 3 on a PPA - one takes the place of all of the buffers for one channel.


----------



## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_just to let you know, things are moving forward, I'll receive sample parts from the reels that will be used on final products and will build the final prototype with them, once working, I'm placing order for the boards and two weeks later the boards are gonna be populated on mashine, then I'm ready to ship! no problems with sourcing parts on horizont this time, luckily.. knock-knock.._

 

Maybe a month until shipping then? 

 Where there be a noticable increase in sound quality over the last boards?


----------



## Vadi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BradJudy* 
_Because you can only fit 3 on a PPA - one takes the place of all of the buffers for one channel._

 

I thought you can use up to four buffers per channel? That would make 4 kits. Sorry I'm a newbie.


----------



## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vadi* 
_I thought you can use up to four buffers per channel? That would make 4 kits. Sorry I'm a newbie. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You can use 4 dip8 buffers per channel. Each diamond buffer covers the space of the 4 dip8 buffers. The diamond buffers are apparently strong enough and have a low enough output impedence to replace all 4 regular buffers.


----------



## Vadi

Thank you bg4533!


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bg4533* 
_Maybe a month until shipping then? 

 Where there be a noticable increase in sound quality over the last boards?_

 

1) likely so

 2) yess


----------



## Heady

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_there probably won't be any group buy, ordering through email or PM this time.. I'll place a Mall-Fi ad.._

 

Hi Glassman, didn't see the Mall-Fi ad yet. Have you posted?


----------



## Glassman

not available as of yet, will post when available


----------



## individual6891

Anymore word on the second batches? Hopefully you'll be able to released before PPA2 comes into printing


----------



## Glassman

the boards are being manufactured at the time, they'll be ready on 2/11 and will immediately ship for mashine assembly, that will take a week I estimate and then I'm ready to sell..

 oh and these will be interesting even after PPAv2 release 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there's no need to trash your good old PPAv1.x just because there is PPAv2.. maybe PPAv1.x will beat PPAv2, who knows, we'll see


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_the boards are being manufactured at the time, they'll be ready on 2/11 and will immediately ship for mashine assembly, that will take a week I estimate and then I'm ready to sell..

 oh and these will be interesting even after PPAv2 release 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there's no need to trash your good old PPAv1.x just because there is PPAv2.. maybe PPAv1.x will beat PPAv2, who knows, we'll see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well indeed the PPA2 has not dynobiased diamond boards, (that will make a huge difference) the new has just a similar design to yours but just onboard, AFAIK there was no other major change implemented besides the pot for the dial o bass, so I don't see why the PPA2 have to necesarilly sound better (or worst) than a good implemented PPA1 with the diamond board attached on top of the sockets....


----------



## @sia@home

again I'm starting to get worried that my ppa will never be finished,

 these buffers are being made right now right?


----------



## Glassman

exactly, boards and parts are ready and will be mashine populated by the end of the week..


----------



## uzziah

all i have to say is glassman is very accomodating to do all this, with little or no profit, and deal with all our issues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. he's not a big business making a big profit! he's just a fellow audiophile who has the incredible decency, skill and willingness to spend all this time designing, testing, re-configuring, shipping, accepting payments etc. etc. just cuz he loves music like we all do, and wants to share his abilities with us. so please go easy. the reason we're getting such a great deal is that we're avoiding the big business. with that inevitably come delays, confusions, etc. It's pretty unreasonable to demand any sort of extra help, questions answered etc.; yet he does it, and he loves to answer all our questions, regardless of their basic nature or if they've already been answered. this is the kind of thing that makes diy audio the thing we all love.

 all i have to say is:

 cheers to you!


----------



## peranders

There aren't many of his kind in the whole world! I have done some in his direction as you may know, but it's takes time which I haven't got much of, besides I want something (money is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) for it. I think also Glassman is entitled to some reward for his efforts.


----------



## uzziah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peranders* 
_There aren't many of his kind in the whole world! I have done some in his direction as you may know, but it's takes time which I haven't got much of, besides I want something (money is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) for it. I think also Glassman is entitled to some reward for his efforts._

 

well said. your efforts have alos obviously been critical in this. cheers to y'all!


----------



## individual6891

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_exactly, boards and parts are ready and will be mashine populated by the end of the week.._

 

Anyword on when this'll be ready?


----------



## @sia@home

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *individual6891* 
_Anyword on when this'll be ready?_

 

I'm starting to get a bit skeptical, seeing as we have been promised them before newyears, and Its almost April.

 I'm thinking about just buying some intersil buffers.

 If I am way off the target then I appoligise, and I'd love a set, but yeah, I am getting skeptical


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *@sia@home* 
_I'm starting to get a bit skeptical, seeing as we have been promised them before newyears, and Its almost April.

 I'm thinking about just buying some intersil buffers.

 If I am way off the target then I appoligise, and I'd love a set, but yeah, I am getting skeptical_

 

They will be out pretty soon, just be patient guys, glassman is doing the last touches, it will worth the waiting....be prepared to solder though...LOL...


----------



## Glassman

yes, today they were mashine assembled, finaly! sorry for the delay, but it's been worth it - previously wonderfully sounding but pretty picky buffers are now wonderfully sounding and rock stable! I'll do my best to get them to you ASAP..

 it was a long journey, believe me.. it took so long to get my personal prototypes stable with all phones, then after receiving production boards with production parts of the same type but different batch I realised that stability has completely gone.. I've been trying to force them to work at least as my prototypes worked, but it was a no-go.. I've tried Phil's method he use to stabilise his buffers, it worked, but not optimaly.. then I finaly found my own way how to deal with the problem and it's a very elegant way and works perfectly - I tried it with over ten different phones and it always worked perfectly.. I'm very happy with this solution and am finaly ready to offer the the new buffers to the public, significantly better than the previous and now without any stability penalties..


----------



## BradJudy

Glassman,

 Any idea what the ordering/purchasing process will be like? Will there be someone we can PayPal payment to?


----------



## Glassman

yes I will ship certain lot of them to US, they'll be sent to each individual from there and you'll be able to use PayPal.. you will be informed through Mall-Fi posting soon!


----------



## individual6891

I hope not all of them are shipped to USA..


----------



## Glassman

certainly not all, my friend


----------



## @sia@home

OK sweet.

 Thanks for your hard work Glassman 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do look forward to getting my hands on some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't mind a bit of assembly myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How will the ppl in Australia get them, buying from the americans? or are you giong to sell direct to the Aussies?


----------



## Glassman

I'll take care of the rest of the world myself, you don't have to wait twice..

 the boards were assembled yesterday, I should have them in hands tomorrow!


----------



## sbulack

I am currently looking to buy a set of fully assembled and tested Discrete Buffers for my PPA. I've got a V1.0A with the C2(L,G,R) in place and NO C3's installed.

 1) Do the second generation Discrete Buffers still fit with the C2's in place?
 2) When the new DB's become available, will I (someone new who has not posted to this thread) be able to order a fully assembled and tested set?

 If the answers to the above two questions are "Yes", then I'm IN for a set, whenever they're available - I'm in no hurry.
 Thanks.


----------



## Glassman

you will have to solder a bit on the PPA board as well as the buffer boards, but only thru-hole parts, no SMD soldering needed! and because of the necessity to solder on the PPA board, fully assembled sets now seem meaningless, so that only kits will be offered, but with already populated surface mount parts..

 no problems with C2 of course..

 they will be sold just like any other products, no group buy is going on.. you come, pay and receive them..


----------



## individual6891

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_you will have to solder a bit on the PPA board as well as the buffer boards, but only thru-hole parts, no SMD soldering needed! and because of the necessity to solder on the PPA board, fully assembled sets now seem meaningless, so that only kits will be offered, but with already populated surface mount parts..

 no problems with C2 of course..

 they will be sold just like any other products, no group buy is going on.. you come, pay and receive them.._

 

What needs soldering to on the PPA? The buffer to the PPA? Does this mean lead length between buffer and PPA influences the buffer's stability? Or is there a separate connection somewhere?


----------



## Glassman

you'll need to put 100pF polypropylene cap in parallel to R14, that would be done by removing either R12 or R13, soldering the cap in place of it and shorting the pads with R14 on the other side.. also for PPA v1.0 you will need to short two pads on one of the buffer sockets - this is already done on v1.1 boards.. that's about it, pretty simple, isn't it?


----------



## BrokenEnglish

well... i hope you'll post some fool-proof picture instructions... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 i'm in...


----------



## llmobll

Alright... it seems your D-buffers are about done... but how does it sound. You seem confident that they will sound better than the older version... care to comment?


----------



## Glassman

having two PPAs side by side, one with the older and one with the new buffers, you don't have to be listening more than a few seconds to realise the difference.. the new: better rendition of texture, instrument separation, especially great with vocals, everything sounds more precise, more detailed, bass is very concrete, top end is just clean and clear now absolutely lacking any graininess..

 those are my own listening impressions, however for objectivity, you can wait for a while before others compare them..


----------



## llmobll

ggrrr.... i dont' want to wait. Oh well, i haven't been paying too much attention to this thread lately... what will be the price of a kit?


----------



## Glassman

wait for a Mall-Fi ad comming in a week..


----------



## Glassman

boards are at home! ready to ship overseas on thursday


----------



## @sia@home

How are the other countries paying?

 By direct deposit or paypal?

 Final word on price?, I'm definetly in for a set, but I don't get paid for another week yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please don't sell them all on me


----------



## Glassman




----------



## BradJudy

Sweet.


----------



## Glassman




----------



## individual6891

OMG OMG OMG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait!


----------



## @sia@home

Do we still have the surface mount LEDs on there. They looked sexy as on the previous version


----------



## peranders

Nice work, indeed! How about the circuit? Do you have the bootstrap thing?


----------



## BradJudy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *@sia@home* 
_Do we still have the surface mount LEDs on there. They looked sexy as on the previous version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I believe those are the bottom left and right items on the board.


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peranders* 
_Nice work, indeed! How about the circuit? Do you have the bootstrap thing?_

 

thanks! yes I use that cascoding thing, that's the reason it sounds much better than before..

 btw. already on the way to US


----------



## steinchen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_ wait for a Mall-Fi ad comming in a week.._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_ btw. already on the way to US_

 

where to place an order for Europe ? can't find a mall-fi thread. should I pm you ?


----------



## individual6891

Aye, would be a bit silly paying for extra shipping from USA to europe, if the packages were already in europe in the first place!


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *individual6891* 
_Aye, would be a bit silly paying for extra shipping from USA to europe, if the packages were already in europe in the first place! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

no need to worry... if i got it right, glassman ships some buffers to a sort of distributor in the states, and will finish all european orders right from prague.


----------



## individual6891

Ok Cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When can the euros order?


----------



## motu

I want to order as well. Live in eu.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

omg... i hope, glassman has enough of that stuff...


----------



## .: ZMN :.

Me too! Another Eu(ropean) request. 

 Thanks Glassman. I'm happy to spot the new progress here, I was about to order a PPA v2 after all the buzz. Though I have a PPA v1.1 board waiting on the shelves to be finished. I would like to threat it with these awesome looking (hopefuly sounding) 'diamonds'.


----------



## Glassman

oups, stop that europeans! I only kept 10 kits for non-US people and already sent two, soo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PM while it's hot


----------



## @sia@home

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_oups, stop that europeans! I only kept 10 kits for non-US people and already sent two, soo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PM while it's hot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

wow, how many exactly did you make?


----------



## individual6891

180 boards, 60 kits..


----------



## Glassman

there were three panels, each consisting of 7x9 matrix of the small boards, so 189 boards total.. I have cut one row from one panel for final prototype build, so I have my own hand assembled buffers and four bare boards.. from the rest which is mashine populated there's gonna be two odd boards left, one of them has been assembled while doing photos for upcomming assembly guide.. in the end I was left with 60 kits, 50 of them were sent to US in one parcel and I've kept 10, from which I already received 6 PayPal payments so far and another kit is reserved.. maybe I've underestimated non-americans a bit, but nevermind, they will have to be served from US, there's no difference in price either because the parcel with 50 kits weighted ~850g, even if sent say 40 instead, I would always pay the same price for up to 1000g parcel..

 people are asking about assembly guide, I'm planning to set it up, however I'm short on time, so here's a simple version of such a guide:






 first you should push in the pins and make shure they are fitted right, that means perpendicular to the board, then secure them by soldering from underside.. you have to make shure you mount the transistors exactly like on this picture, with their markings in this direction and this order.. the one in front is BD139-16, the one behind BD140-16, markings should be visible looking at the board from this side as in the picture above.. the last thing you have to solder in is a polypropylene capacitor.. keep the legs of both transistors and capacitor short so that they do not come in contact with the buffer sockets under them..

 finished buffer should look like this:





 as for the PPA board modification, there are basicaly three steps in case of v1.0 boards and two in case of v1.1 boards..

 for both versions:

 1) remove R12 (original PPA v1.0 artwork) and put 100pF polypropylene cap there instead (this position is re-marked as C14 on my modified artwork)

 2) short leads of C14 with R14 using solder bridge from underside of the board

 for PPA v1.0 only:

 3) short leads of BUF1 sockets using solder bridge from underside of the board as depicted






 yellow marked traces represent solder bridges.. green marked pins on buffer sockets are positions where the buffer boards have to be plugged in, the direction is important as well! on the bottom side of the buffer boards you will find caption for all four legs - V+, V-, IN and OUT.. the right direction is IN and OUT legs facing towards the opamps (inside the PPA board) and V+ and V- facing towards the main capacitor filter bank (outside the PPA board).. hope everything's clear now..


----------



## Glassman

there are only two kits left available for non-US buyers as of now.. PM me if you haven't already!


----------



## KYTGuy

First, Glassman, thankyou for your work on this enhancement,

 Second, I live in the US...to whom do I apply to get a set of your buffers?

 Thanks again,

 Guy


----------



## MisterX

bg4533.....


----------



## bg4533

The buffers are still on there way to me. I am not taking orders quite yet. There will be a post or Mall-Fi ad or something when the buffers are ready to ship. Should be soon.


----------



## Glassman

those 10 kits I kept here with me are already gone.. from now on you will have to order them from US.. they will arrive there and start shipping from there in two weeks time - wait until you spot appropriate Mall-Fi ad with details regarding ordering!

 thanks for your support


----------



## individual6891

I received mine today... pictures soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 p.s. Glassman - nice work!


----------



## individual6891

Well i'll be back in 2 hours, so for now only some unassembled shots (very bad digi-cam, 2Mpix).






 [size=medium]*PPA Modifications*[/size]
 These are much much easier if you haven't already built your PPA board and filled in R11-14.

 R11/12/13 not populated. I used 100pF Wima FKP series capacitors here. They fit better in R11/13 positions due to more space than they do in R12. The leads of the caps were bent so that they can fit into R13...







 For the underside, I basically took the lead from R14, bent it towards R13, and jumpered across it. (note, only one side of R14 needs bridging, as the other side is already connected (coming out of the output of the opamps). Pics explain it better:






 Happy modding.


----------



## Glassman

excellent, thanks for the pics!


----------



## individual6891

*[size=medium]Assembled Buffers![/size]*

 Finally got home to finish off these wonderful little buffers. I'd recommend you solder the capacitor down before the transistors, because the capacitor is shorter. Make sure your transistor direction is the same (explained by glassman above).





 Top Side





 Underside



*[size=medium]Orientation on PPA PCB[/size]*

 Put the buffers this way round as shown..












 Listening tests shortly


----------



## BrokenEnglish

thanks andy,

 what a nice service to provide us with some pics! i'll decide after your listening-tests if i throw out all those ic-sockets... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 total height of the 2nd gen buffers could get an issue for me, as i'm using one of the flatter lansing cases. maybe someone could measure it? thanks...


----------



## Glassman

they are not any higher than ALPS Blue even when on sockets, in fact they are a bit lower than that..

 great work!


----------



## BradJudy

Looks great, I can't wait for the State-side ones to be ready for shipping. I'm guessing we'll see a lot of buffer chips for sale cheap in the coming weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully the demand hasn't completely disappeared between this and the PPA v2.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

just couldn't resist.. those glassman buffers arrived yesterday (thanks, glassman!)... *rrrrg*.. have to tune good old ppa instantly. i woke up early this morning, got lots of coffee to overcome my fear (i've never soldered things like this before), learned my lessons (s. above) and fired up the solder iron. things went smooth and i was finished sooner than i thought (2,5h - had to reinstall one of the r12/c14-caps after the first run, because its "replacement-leg" was broken)






 glassman was faster than the electronics supplier where i ordered (hopefully better fitting) 1000v/100pf fkp. so i had to use those fairly huge 1600v/100pf ones i found in my box. of course their legs were too thick and it was indeed the hardest challenge, to solder proper wire there... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 (here you can see the leds lighten up)

 no problems with assembling the buffers themselves. glassman did a great job! it's also fairly easy to do all that bridging. i'm a diy-noob and was able to install the buffers, so everyone out there could do it.

 got funny readings for output voltage with the ad8610: L/IG=-0,4mV; G/IG=0,3mV; R/IG=-0,7mV (negative values?!). with the intersils i read before: L/IG=0,2mV; G/IG=0,0mV; R/IG=0,2mV

 hey... those transistors are getting really hot: couldn't touch them longer than 10s. should be ~55-65°c. i would like to know if additional cooling is necessary. also.. would it be necessary when i jump up to 30v input voltage (ad843 are on their way, c1 will be replaced)?

 how do they sound?
 the differences between the intersils (out of my memory) and the glassman buffers (installed) are subtle. i'd bet, there's better resolution and slightly more energy in the uppest and lowest parts of the frequencies. i'm convinced that they need their time to break in and i'll give them some days, before i'll add further impressions. in terms of resolution and detailed, analytical reproduction i'm simply pampered by the wna ha... the ad8610 (far less the opa627/637) couldn't reach that level before and will most likely not reach it with the glassman buffers aboard. i hope, the ad843 will fill in that gap and maybe also bypass one of the biggest weaknesses of the wna (artificial treble extension with the dt880). let's wait and hear. 

 so far i'm absolutely sure, that i'll keep the glassman buffers. but hey.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there are a lot of intersils over... i'm open for offers - just drop me a pm.

 /edit: these little thingies actually develop fast soundwise: there's already some magic with classical music, i missed before. overall more tonal presence, slightly lifted dynamics.

 /edit2: they're getting even hotter now: can't touch them longer than 4s. i'm a bit worried about that...


----------



## individual6891

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_glassman was faster than the electronics supplier where i ordered (hopefully better fitting) 1000v/100pf fkp. so i had to use those fairly huge 1600v/100pf ones i found in my box. of course their legs were too thick and it was indeed the hardest challenge, to solder proper wire there... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Those big caps might affect the sound.. I'm using 100V/100pF Wima ones, but without the rest of the PPA parts, I can't test the sound yet


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *individual6891* 
_Those big caps might affect the sound.. I'm using 100V/100pF Wima ones, but without the rest of the PPA parts, I can't test the sound yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

can't imagine that, andy. same value: 100pf, same line (fkp2), higher voltage (1600v)... what's the problem? but don't worry... they'll be replaced by 1000v/100pf ones soon.

 the sound is not bad at all. i'd say, it's most likely markedly better than with the intersils inside. i'm sure, steinchen will elaborate on that as he'll be able to switch between his ic-buffered ppa and different discrete versions. within my rig the ppa has to compete with the wna ha (lm6171 inside). to keep it short: the glassmaned ppa offers a better tonal balance whereas the wna ha still is the champion in terms of detail and (after the last mods) accurate and deep bass-reproduction... well... at least for the moment... pre-burn-in...


----------



## individual6891

Hmm, might have to get my hands on a WNA MKII once the funds build up again


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *individual6891* 
_Hmm, might have to get my hands on a WNA MKII once the funds build up again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

andy... stay cool... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... first of all: i think, i'm a bit special in that respect: i simply love analytical reproduction and lots of treble energy, too. secondly the ppa has to burn in before any comparison can be somewhat meaningful. thirdly... i'm quite sure, i've still not found the right opamp for the ppa...

 maybe i have to declare in a few weeks, that the ppa with ad843/glassman buffers is my new favourite? who knows...

 you know... trust your own ears only!


----------



## Glassman

huh I was a bit affraid that these new are too lively sounding and you say you need more? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to each his own, DT880 sure are the phones for you!

 also, try making comparison using the same opamps in each amp.. I think most of the signature you're hearing from WNA is due to the opamp used..


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_I think most of the signature you're hearing from WNA is due to the opamp used.._

 

yes.. you're absolutely right there! i was hoping, i made that aspect clearer before. 

 could you please elaborate on the thermal questions, glassman?


----------



## Glassman

they will stand 30V supply without a problem, they will get hot though.. be sure to check wheter 30V brings any sonical improvement over 24V, I haven't realised any..


----------



## BrokenEnglish

thanks! there's no additional cooling necessary (given 24v) in my small, unventilated lansing case?


----------



## Glassman

I'm running my PPA 24/7 - no problem.. if you feel the need, you can mount small heatsinks, they should fit rather easily..


----------



## individual6891

Just ordered a set of AD843's .. Apparently many consider this the magic ingredient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just waiting for my C1's to arrive


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *individual6891* 
_Just ordered a set of AD843's .. Apparently many consider this the magic ingredient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

maybe the FOTM?


----------



## individual6891

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_maybe the FOTM? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

lol


----------



## Magsy

I can't help but think of something else everytime I read 'FOTM'


----------



## individual6891

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Magsy* 
_I can't help but think of something else everytime I read 'FOTM' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112492

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...05&postcount=3


----------



## BrokenEnglish

hm... i'm just about rediscovering my ppa. those glassman buffers gave him a nice addon in the extremes... like it.... indeed very nice. cranked it up to insane volumes... hehe... listening to naked lunch - evolution ending... that bassline is impressive... hm...


----------



## BrokenEnglish

tested the opa627/637 in combination with the glassman 2nd gen buffers - no problems! remember the warnings of ppl/larry, not to use the opa637 with the early makes of their discrete diamond buffers - seems like glassman found a way to bypass those issues. although... i'll not test longtime-stability. never liked the opa-sound and most likely will never enjoy it at all..


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_tested the opa627/637 in combination with the glassman 2nd gen buffers - no problems! remember the warnings of ppl/larry, not to use the opa637 with the early makes of their discrete diamond buffers - seems like glassman found a way to bypass those issues. although... i'll not test longtime-stability. never liked the opa-sound and most likely will never enjoy it at all.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is your "test" just a listening test, or did you put the amp on a scope and a function generator to observe square wave behavior? Only the latter will truly reveal stability issues.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amb* 
_Is your "test" just a listening test, or did you put the amp on a scope and a function generator to observe square wave behavior? Only the latter will truly reveal stability issues._

 

sorry... only a listening test, amb. i own no scope.


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_sorry... only a listening test, amb. i own no scope._

 

I am not implying that the glassman buffers are unstable, but listening alone without proper instrumentation is not a reliable indicator. The Larocco Triad buffers probably would have "passed" your test too.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

thanks for clearing things up, amb. good to know some supervision around.


----------



## dviswa

Glassman,
 I don't seem to be able to find the schematic of the buffer. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Glassman

no, you're not missing anything, I haven't published schematics for the 2nd generation buffers..


----------



## dviswa

Alright, I can wait a bit.

 Question for every body else: Where are you sourcing C1's from? I have real problem trying to find a seller. Unfortunately Tangent's shop is all out of it.

 Appreciate some pointers.


----------



## bg4533

That is my PPA with Glassmans new buffers.

 So yeah...the buffers are here and I am ready to take orders. I think Glassman should have a Mall-Fi ad up in a few days with details. I am not sure what all I can say here, so for now PM me for more info. I start a new quarter for school tomorrow and things will be a bit hectic for the next few days. I apoligize in advance if I am a bit slow to respond.


----------



## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dviswa* 
_Alright, I can wait a bit.

 Question for every body else: Where are you sourcing C1's from? I have real problem trying to find a seller. Unfortunately Tangent's shop is all out of it.

 Appreciate some pointers._

 

How about Panasonic FMs from Digikey?


----------



## Glassman

buffers that will ship from bg4533 will include those three 100p polypropylenes you need to add across R14, you can see them next to R14 in the picture Brian posted..

 for those interested, pricing looks like this:

 domestic (US):
 $48 for first set, shipped and incl. paypal fees.. add $45 for each additional set..

 international:
 $50 for first set, shipped and incl. paypal fees.. add $47 for each additional set..


 a few more people outside US should be receiving their buffers from me any day, please let me know if everything went good!


----------



## steinchen

parts arrived on Thursday, got them from the Postal Office on Saturday

 amp is up and running fine, atm I only got 100pF styroflex caps in my box, will try to get FKP caps next week, sound is very good though 

 the transistors are getting slightly hot, warmer than the trannies in ppa v2.0 but not that hot that I see a need to heatsink them

 the diamond buffers drive a K1000 a little better than the buffers of a ppa v2.0 do, but not loud enough imo. For HD600 the present gain of 10 is more than plenty.


----------



## Glassman

I am very interested in comparison against PPAv2.. if you need them for driving K1000, I can suggest you some modifications for better operation with K1000, PM me..


----------



## dviswa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bg4533* 
_How about Panasonic FMs from Digikey?_

 

First option is to try and get Cerafine, Black gate or Silmics. If that fails, I was thinking about Nichicon/Panasonic. I may be wrong. The research I have done points in this direction. I do not know how Panasonic stacks up against say, Black Gate. 
 Anybody has any opinions on this? Am I unnecessarily making it harder?


----------



## morsel

Quote:


 the diamond buffers drive a K1000 a little better than the buffers of a ppa v2.0 do, but not loud enough imo. 
 

What were the supply voltages and output bias currents for the PPA v1.1 with Glassman buffers and PPA v2 you tested? I find it hard to believe the Glassman buffers drive the K1000 better than the PPA v2 buffers if supply voltage and output bias are equal. For driving the K1000 you want as much supply voltage and output bias as possible. Choose a power supply and opamps that will handle 36V rails. Try some clip on heat sinks.


----------



## motu

About those polypropylene caps for R14, besides them being 100pF/100V, what other spec should I be looking for? Since they're so cheap, I thought I might as well buy the best ones, which brands are good and which is the best?

 I live in Sweden, found this url:

http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage....ok=2012662.htm

 and this:

http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage....ok=2012666.htm

 How do they compare with the ones listed on the url below, and is there a difference between the first url and the wima fkp caps listed below?

http://www.borbelyaudio.com/caps.asp...=yes&print=yes


----------



## Glassman

it really doesn't matter that much, I choose polypropylene because it's cheap enough to use it over plain ceramic, which would also do just fine.. you can pick Mica caps if you really want to, those are a bit pricey, but not as much as to prevent you from using them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you won't gain anything but better looks


----------



## Sovkiller

If Glassman's buffers are dynamically biased, which we don't know as he has not posted the schematics, then the only way that standard PPA2 will sound similar than these buffers, is if you mod these buffers for operation as dynamically biased, otherwise any other regular buffer that we have tried to the date, will fall short in comparison, not only with K-1000 but with any headphone. The dynobiased buffers sound more cleaner and transparent than any of the regular diamond buffers in any configuration and with any OPAmp we have tried...


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_If Glassman's buffers are dynamically biased, which we don't know as he has not posted the schematics, then the only way that standard PPA2 will sound similar than these buffers, is if you mod these buffers for operation as dynamically biased, otherwise any other regular buffer that we have tried to the date, will fall short in comparison, not only with K-1000 but with any headphone. The dynobiased buffers sound more cleaner and transparent than any of the regular diamond buffers in any configuration and with any OPAmp we have tried..._

 

al... you should listen first and judge later..


----------



## motu

I read somewhere that I could bias the diamond buffers for the low impedance of my CD3000, is that true, and how would I go about it?


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_al... you should listen first and judge later.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I don't know exactly about this particular latest version of Glassman (and that is why I stated that if this one is dynamically biased, as we don't know for sure) But I have heard a few of them (indeed I think I have tried all the buffers commercially available to the date, including some beta versions, and including the version that was inlcuded in the PPA2 board) ..... The PPA2 uses a regular LaRocco diamond buffer, which BTW was my first discrete buffer) 

 The dynamically biased ones are the best I have tried among them, and if this version of them are also Dynamically biased, I don't see why they should sound different or worst that the ones I'm using now....


----------



## steinchen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morsel* 
_What were the supply voltages and output bias currents for the PPA v1.1 with Glassman buffers and PPA v2 you tested? I find it hard to believe the Glassman buffers drive the K1000 better than the PPA v2 buffers if supply voltage and output bias are equal. For driving the K1000 you want as much supply voltage and output bias as possible. Choose a power supply and opamps that will handle 36V rails. Try some clip on heat sinks._

 

I don't know the bias of the Glassman buffers, my PPA v2.0 is biased with the recommended 50 mA (110mV over 2.2Ohms).

 Supply voltage is 30V for both amps.

 Performance with K1000 is only SLIGHTLY better, not much. But that doesn't matter because for me the M³ is the King of the hill and is driving K1000 with a 30V PSU fine indeed. Therefore I'm not going to crank the parts up to their limits.


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_can't imagine that, andy. same value: 100pf, same line (fkp2), higher voltage (1600v)... what's the problem? but don't worry... they'll be replaced by 1000v/100pf ones soon.

 the sound is not bad at all. i'd say, it's most likely markedly better than with the intersils inside. i'm sure, steinchen will elaborate on that as he'll be able to switch between his ic-buffered ppa and different discrete versions. within my rig the ppa has to compete with the wna ha (lm6171 inside). to keep it short: the glassmaned ppa offers a better tonal balance whereas the wna ha still is the champion in terms of detail and (after the last mods) accurate and deep bass-reproduction... well... at least for the moment... pre-burn-in..._

 


 If Detail is what you want without undue Brightness then i think the AD8065 is what you might like. If treble energy is really your desire then the AD-8610, if Bass is what your after the AD843.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ppl* 
_If Detail is what you want without undue Brightness then i think the AD8065 is what you might like. If treble energy is really your desire then the AD-8610, if Bass is what your after the AD843._

 

thanks, ppl - good to have you around! hope some ad843 will arrive this week. would need to find a source for the ad8065 if the ad843 will not suit my taste. ok... step by step. 

 in the meantime, after some burnin and further mods (c1 replaced incl. some bypassing caps, gain reduced) the ppa sounds really great. still would prefer some more detail... 

 (if there only were a viable way to use the lm6171 in the ppa... hey.. i know.. it's only a dream.. )


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_thanks, ppl - good to have you around! hope some ad843 will arrive this week. would need to find a source for the ad8065 if the ad843 will not suit my taste. ok... step by step. 

 in the meantime, after some burnin and further mods (c1 replaced incl. some bypassing caps, gain reduced) the ppa sounds really great. still would prefer some more detail... 

 (if there only were a viable way to use the lm6171 in the ppa... hey.. i know.. it's only a dream.. )_

 

I second the AD8065 for details it is a hell of an OPAmp, that makes me remove my beloved OPA637BP from it, later on listening carefully the AD843, I'm still burning them, I think I will end with those, but not sure yet, if you get the AD8065, and you are affraid of mounting them yourself, I will do it for you in a heartbeat. 

 I was even thinking in conforming a PPA rolling pack.....for all the PPA lovers, let's see....other to consider is the AD744....


----------



## Glassman

for AD744 there's an important trick though, you can skip their own output stage and connect the buffers there instead, some modifications on PPA board are neccessary of course.. this is probably the most meaningful use of opamps when paired with discrete buffers.. I'm getting AD744 soon personally.. I will provide details on how to modify your PPA for running these with bypassed output stage with my buffers..


 as for the dynamical biasing rumors out there.. I can only tell you that mine have these properities: cascoded input stage without additional parts used to accomplish this and the second thing is that the output transistors never shut down as they are connected to constant current sources, again without any additional parts used.. call it as you like, it's up to you, one thing is clear though - these are not the usuall Diamond Buffers like my first generation ones or the original Triad modules, which are now integrated on PPAv2 board..


 as for the bias, there is 25mA flowing through the output emmiter resistors plus about 6.5mA due to the constant current sources, that is indeed less than those 50mA you have in PPAv2 and still find them doing better job then PPAv2, I'm pleased


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_maybe the FOTM? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

No the AD843 was the Flavor of the month about 5 years ago on these forums and has only made a comeback recently. If you like punch and bass dynamics this is the Op-Amp you want.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *steinchen* 
_I don't know the bias of the Glassman buffers, my PPA v2.0 is biased with the recommended 50 mA (110mV over 2.2Ohms).

 Supply voltage is 30V for both amps.

 Performance with K1000 is only SLIGHTLY better, not much. But that doesn't matter because for me the M³ is the King of the hill and is driving K1000 with a 30V PSU fine indeed. Therefore I'm not going to crank the parts up to their limits._

 

Holy Mollie I don’t know how 50 mA was the recommended Bias for the PPA V2 The PPA is a portable amp and the V2 Buffers are intended for low bias current operation. The useable Bias range is 10-30 mA above 30 mA you are over biasing the output stage of the V2 MY recommended Bias is 15-25 mA.
 As you increase the Bias current the Maximum available voltage swing is reduced because of the Voltage Drop across the emitter resistors in the current mirrors go up with Increasing bias current. At 50 mA you are probably losing + or – 2 volts of available output swing just from the voltage drop across the Current mirror resistors. The K1000 are 120-ohm headphones that require lots of output voltage to drive so any loss in available output voltage will reduce the dynamic range you can obtain, thus I recommend a lower bias setting like 20 Ma and see if you now don’t get adequate loudness. Personally I have used amps powered by two series connected 9-volt batteries and have had no problem with driving them, However am sure you were listening way louder than I was.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_thanks, ppl - good to have you around! hope some ad843 will arrive this week. would need to find a source for the ad8065 if the ad843 will not suit my taste. ok... step by step. 

 in the meantime, after some burnin and further mods (c1 replaced incl. some bypassing caps, gain reduced) the ppa sounds really great. still would prefer some more detail... 

 (if there only were a viable way to use the lm6171 in the ppa... hey.. i know.. it's only a dream.. )_

 

I’m am not a big fan of the LM61 series of op amps thay make great Virtual ground drivers however they sound spitty and with so much grain that its IMHO a waist of time to make these work in the PPA when so many other better sounding devices are available that work great In the PPA. The LM61 series of op amps mate well with the softer sounding BUF634 IC buffers but that’s about the only combo I liked with them. 

 My sonic preferences are detail but without the brightness and Glare. I think a lot of people mistake Brightness with Detail and in reality thay is very different, unfortunately most Solid-state electronics that are detailed are also bright. The AD8065 is the exception. 

 IMHO the FOTM is in actually real time tested classics that keep resurfacing as better ways to implement them are discovered or that after going though all the latest fads that people return to trusted old staples.


----------



## Syzygies

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ppl* 
_My sonic preferences are detail but without the brightness and Glare. I think a lot of people mistake Brightness with Detail and in reality thay is very different, unfortunately most Solid-state electronics that are detailed are also bright. The AD8065 is the exception._

 

Wow! You should write ad copy. If anyone ever nailed what I'm trying to sort out with my amps, you just did. I don't mistake Brightness and Glare with Detail, I just thought the hangover came with the booze. Now my Ety 4s and I have to buy yet another set of op amps


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ppl* 
_No the AD843 was the Flavor of the month about 5 years ago on these forums and has only made a comeback recently. If you like punch and bass dynamics this is the Op-Amp you want._

 

ppl, my fotm-remark was just a joke... a bow to gsferrari's fotm-threads those days... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in general i don't like such labels: we'd have to speak of of the opa627/637 and ad8610 as FOSYs (favor of some years) then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 reading your description of the sonic characteristics of the ad843 i have to guess, that those are not the ones for me...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ppl* 
_My sonic preferences are detail but without the brightness and Glare. I think a lot of people mistake Brightness with Detail and in reality thay is very different, unfortunately most Solid-state electronics that are detailed are also bright. The AD8065 is the exception._

 

hm... hmmm... even if you mark it as a mistake, i prefer - along with my phones - brighter setups. i was used to listen to my music with maxed trebles on my really bad rigs for long years... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... that's my personal auditive history. on your description, dr. ppl, i'll try to retrain my ears/cortex... huh... but please... i can't stand that bitter-sweet "opa forte" medicine anymore... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 /edit: oh... just saw al's posting:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_I second the AD8065 for details it is a hell of an OPAmp, that makes me remove my beloved OPA637BP from it, later on listening carefully the AD843, I'm still burning them, I think I will end with those, but not sure yet, if you get the AD8065, and you are affraid of mounting them yourself, I will do it for you in a heartbeat._

 

thanks... that's a nice gesture! tell you what.. i'll wait until you've decided for the ad843 and then grab your ad8065 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - if necessary at all... let's discuss it via pm then...


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_thanks... that's a nice gesture! tell you what.. i'll wait until you've decided for the ad843 and then grab your ad8065 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - if necessary at all... let's discuss it via pm then..._

 

I don't think I will sell my 8065 unless I sell my PPA also, I want to keep a rolling OPAmp kit just for fun, and definitelly the 8065 will be part of it, even as I stated above, I'm planning on doing an OProlling kit for the PPA owners to try diferent approaches, not sure to what point it will be a good idea, and maybe I will loose some of the OPamps in the trial and error process, those are not as the tubes, they could be damaged easily by static charge, etc...


----------



## bg4533

I need to pick up 8065s. I tried the 8066 in a Pimeta with my old MS2, but I wasn't that impressed. I hope for better with the HD650 and PPA. They are so cheap I can't really go wrong.

 Still haven't been able to try the AD843 in the PPA yet either. My isolation JFETS are at 10mA which isn't enough. I think I am going to socket an extra so I can try the 843.

 So far I am pretty happy with the OPA627.

 Also, I have shipped all of the buffer orders that were placed with me so far. Some yesterday, some today. I don't feel like sending individual PMs right now.


----------



## Juergen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bg4533* 
_...
 Also, I have shipped all of the buffer orders that were placed with me so far. Some yesterday, some today. I don't feel like sending individual PMs right now._

 

I hadn't realized the US buffers were available. I have been watching for a Mall-Fi ad. How many do you have left?


----------



## ppl

BrokenEnglish> I am sorry i did not wish to offend anyones sonic sensibilities i do understand your posistion.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ppl* 
_BrokenEnglish> I am sorry i did not wish to offend anyones sonic sensibilities i do understand your posistion._

 

no offense taken, ppl! your valuable hints are _always_ welcome!


----------



## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Juergen* 
_I hadn't realized the US buffers were available. I have been watching for a Mall-Fi ad. How many do you have left?_

 

~40 sets.


----------



## steinchen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ppl* 
_Holy Mollie I don’t know how 50 mA was the recommended Bias for the PPA V2 The PPA is a portable amp and the V2 Buffers are intended for low bias current operation. The useable Bias range is 10-30 mA above 30 mA you are over biasing the output stage of the V2 MY recommended Bias is 15-25 mA._

 

sorry, I messed some things up, I'm afraid. Measured voltage drop across R24/R34 (2.2 Ohms) and it reads 66mV and hits your 30mA recommendation. 

 Got the 110mV from a piece of paper on my desk, must have been for M³, time for cleaning up my desk I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 btw, neither on Morsel's site http://www.elvencraft.com/ppav2/ nor on tangent's site http://www.tangentsoft.net/audio/ppa/amp2/ I can find infos or recommendations concerning setting up the bias. Adding one or two lines would probably appreciated by future builders.


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *steinchen* 
_sorry, I messed some things up, I'm afraid. Measured voltage drop across R24/R34 (2.2 Ohms) and it reads 66mV and hits your 30mA recommendation. 

 Got the 110mV from a piece of paper on my desk, must have been for M³, time for cleaning up my desk I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, neither on Morsel's site http://www.elvencraft.com/ppav2/ nor on tangent's site http://www.tangentsoft.net/audio/ppa/amp2/ I can find infos or recommendations concerning setting up the bias. Adding one or two lines would probably appreciated by future builders._

 

Yes i just noticed this i sent tangent a pdf on this and the advantages of the current mirrors so maybe he has not had time to compile it yet. maybe ill host these on another site if this info don"t pop up elcewhare


----------



## Glassman

has anybody else received and assembled the buffers yet? I only heard from a few of you..


----------



## MisterX

Can you please post a schematic of the new buffer? 
 Or of you wish to keep it "under wraps" can you please send it to me via PM?


----------



## Jeroen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_has anybody else received and assembled the buffers yet? I only heard from a few of you.._

 

Mine were in the mail yesterday. Very nice looking little boards.

 Before I start building them (which I don't think will take very long) I'll have to get around to building my PPA first...

 Thanks Glassman!


----------



## dviswa

I did. Assembled the buffers but have no PPA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still waiting to get my C1s.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* 
_Can you please post a schematic of the new buffer? 
 Or of you wish to keep it "under wraps" can you please send it to me via PM?_


----------



## morsel

Not publishing schematics of the Glassman buffer gives the impression that it is a commercial, proprietary product, or has something to hide. This secrecy is not in the spirit of the PPA project or the DIY community. Someone could examine his buffer and figure out the schematic if they were so inclined, but it would be far better if Glassman posted the schematic instead of teasing the community with vague claims. Is this DIY, or is this a commercial product?


----------



## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_has anybody else received and assembled the buffers yet? I only heard from a few of you.._

 

I of course have my buffers. The only buffers I have to compare are the old Intersil 5002s. So far I am pretty impressed. They sound much more transparent than the Intersils and instrument placement seems to have improved. I am satisfied.


----------



## Sovkiller

Glassman your PM is full, clean it up please!!!


----------



## dviswa

Glassman,

 Those 4 pins included in the kit, what are they called? and where can I buy them? Planning on using them for various component rolling situations.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dviswa* 
_Glassman,

 Those 4 pins included in the kit, what are they called? and where can I buy them? Planning on using them for various component rolling situations._

 

you could get them cutting the plastic off of an ic-socket...


----------



## dviswa

Broken English,

 I guess I can. Hoping for a simpler/cheaper solution


----------



## steinchen

you won't get it cheaper, 8 pins cost about 0.45 EUR = $0.60
http://www.schuro.de/preisl-smd-adp.htm

 or get something like "AW 122/20" or "SL 1X36G 2,54" ( http://www.reichelt.de )


----------



## BrokenEnglish

these are easier to cut:




 20 pcs. for €0.26... not bad..


----------



## dviswa

Thanks BrokenEnglish, steinchen. I think I found it. There are a few different options.
 Digi-Key Part Number ED7310-ND is one.


----------



## Glassman

how are your buffers comming around guys?

 just wanted to let you know that today I've finaly received AD744 for my PPA and boy you all really owe trying them to yourself! this opamp is a special one in the sense that it has so called compensation pin available, which internally connects to a point between input and output circuitry of the opamp, so that after some trivial modifications you can use it as an output to the diamond buffer, skipping entirely the opamp's own output stage.. it works perfectly stable with my latest buffers and really pushes the PPA even further!


----------



## bg4533

Glassman,
 Wanna post instructions on how to do this for those of us that don't have a clue.


----------



## motherone

Glassman,

 I'm a big fan of the AD744/746 (the dual version). I have a 746 running in an audio alchemy DAC and it sounds great. Specwise, it's very similar to the 627/637, but has slightly poorer noise performance, and some better specs elsewhere (If I recall correctly).

 Great chip, though! I still need to put my buffers together.. Since I'm going to be swapping out my Elantecs, I thought that I would get a second PPA board just so I could have a PPA with the old buffers and a PPA with the Diamond Buffers. 

 Please post the details of your 744 mods.. I'd be interested in giving them a try (hell, I really like the chip WITH the output circuitry.. I'd love to see how it sounds without it!)


----------



## rickcr42

Quote:


 I'm a big fan of the AD744/746 (the dual version). 
 

the "original" jung multiloop amp used this baby along with the AD811.

 There is also a pdf for download out there from an old Audio Amatuer (now called Audio Xpress) article that uses this combination in a full feature preamp,the Valkyrie.Some nice layouts/power supply/bypassing ideas in the article.

 STILL a valid and fine sounding design though out of fashion with the "gotta be new' crew.

 Old does not always mean bad because good sound is timeless


----------



## Sovkiller

We found another OPamp recently, that is supposed to perform even better, and do not need the compnesation pin mode, I'm waiting for the order to arrive...they need to be mounted in BD though, no big deal, I will try it soon and will report the results....this is incredible, upgraditis never ends.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 The OPA637 is similar to the AD744 in sound as a regular OPAmp, but using the compensation pin you skip one step, and the sound is completelly different....cleaner and crystal clear.....


----------



## rickcr42

Quote:


 We found another OPamp recently, that is supposed to perform even better, and do not need the compnesation pin mode, I'm waiting for the order to arrive...they need to be mounted in BD though, no big deal, I will try it soon and will report the results....this is incredible, upgraditis never ends.... 
 

that is the thing man.

 "supposed to sound better" and upgraditis is a detriment to music by being more equipment-centric rather than geared towards music appreciation and actual listening to the song instead of the chip.

 Upgraditis means you are going past the music and listening to "parts" which for me is the cart leading the horse.i have damn near every new ADI chip that has come out in the last few years and I still roll back time and go with the "comfortable shoes" chips.
 nothing new has so far caused me to change my mind and is either a variant of what came before but in an unmanagable package (SOT etc) or brings nothing new to the plate worth tossing out the known.Good yes.Better no.

 I mostly use the old and familiar if I use an IC at all and my only beef is when they stop being available in the DIP package or are discontinued.Then I have to scramble to scoop up a bunch before they are all gone because I HATE having to do a redesign for a standard gainblock,each withs its own layout peculiaraties and bypassing schemes

 If I did have a wish list though it would be for the new opamp layout,the new ADI pin designators which make far more sense for audio use,in an old DIP Style package for easier use and plug in capability without an adapter from microscopic to "old mans eyes" and "all thumbs" size


----------



## Glassman

just like Sov says, crystal clear were the words that immediately came to my mind when hearing them for the first time, in the first seconds..


 so, what do we need to do? basicaly three things:

 1) disconnect Class A biasing current sources by removing R9 in case of PPA v1.0 or R10 if you have PPA v1.1 revision (these are the same 1k resistors just different names for v1.0 and v1.1)

 2) short pins 5 and 6 of the opamp sockets, the easiest way is to do a solder bridge from the underside..

 3) bend out pin 6 of the AD744 opamps before you insert them into the sockets.. (prevent pin 6 from touching pin 6 hole in opamp socket!)

 and that's it! enjoy


----------



## BrokenEnglish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_We found another OPamp recently, that is supposed to perform even better, and do not need the compnesation pin mode, I'm waiting for the order to arrive...they need to be mounted in BD though, no big deal, I will try it soon and will report the results....this is incredible, upgraditis never ends.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

hehe... i'm pretty sure, you're speaking of that tempting little highspeed piece, i talked about with xtreme lately.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...unfortunately the dip8-versions are reserved for military use only. looking forward to your thumbs up, al! 

  Quote:


 The OPA637 is similar to the AD744 in sound as a regular OPAmp, but using the compensation pin you skip one step, and the sound is completelly different....*cleaner and crystal clear*..... 
 

tempting... very tempting.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 glassman... please... /edit: ah... the instructions are there... thanks!


----------



## motherone

Glassman,

 Just assembled my buffers, disassembled a ton of stuff from my PPA (out go a bunch of Vishay S102's.. Ugh!) and installed my buffers. They definitely rock. Thanks for putting this thing together for us!

 Mike


----------



## hypophysis

I moded my PPA yesterday as described by glassman. 
 The sound is very good, but I have a problem with noise, hum and buzzing. When I turn the PPA on it's silent but after some seconds there's really loud noise and and it also starts buzzing. The buzzing can be modulated when I put my hand over the case (not even touching it). When the buffers get warm the noise decreases and after about 5 minutes of loud music listening all the noise disappears almost completely.
 When I put an Intersil instead of the diamond buffer into ground channel, the amp is dead silent at all times.
 Did anyone discover similar problems? How can I solve this?


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hypophysis* 
_I moded my PPA yesterday as described by glassman. 
 The sound is very good, but I have a problem with noise, hum and buzzing. When I turn the PPA on it's silent but after some seconds there's really loud noise and and it also starts buzzing. The buzzing can be modulated when I put my hand over the case (not even touching it). When the buffers get warm the noise decreases and after about 5 minutes of loud music listening all the noise disappears almost completely.
 When I put an Intersil instead of the diamond buffer into ground channel, the amp is dead silent at all times.
 Did anyone discover similar problems? How can I solve this?_

 

Do you have the input grounded to the case??? It seems that you have a grounding problem there...


----------



## hypophysis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_Do you have the input grounded to the case??? It seems that you have a grounding problem there..._

 

I've tried to to this a few minutes ago. I have doobooloo's 'crystal' PPA with acrylic front an backpanels in a small lansing case. Its very hard to contact the case to input ground, because the volume pot nut is isolated from the metal case. I have soldered a wire through a input ground pad that has now contact to the bottom case frame, but it's only touching it, and maybe I should screw it to the frame.
 But there is not only ground hum an buzzing, but also loud white noise within the first minutes. When I put an Intersil into the ground channel it's always totally silent. If it is a grounding problem why do I only have it with the diamond buffer in ground channel?


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hypophysis* 
_I've tried to to this a few minutes ago. I have doobooloo's 'crystal' PPA with acrylic front an backpanels in a small lansing case. Its very hard to contact the case to input ground, because the volume pot nut is isolated from the metal case. I have soldered a wire through a input ground pad that has now contact to the bottom case frame, but it's only touching it, and maybe I should screw it to the frame.
 But there is not only ground hum an buzzing, but also loud white noise within the first minutes. When I put an Intersil into the ground channel it's always totally silent. If it is a grounding problem why do I only have it with the diamond buffer in ground channel?_

 

The white noise seems like the amp is oscilating, try ferrites on the input and output, or maybe a cap from each input to ground, choose 1000pF or the like....(also you could try the OPA627 on all 3 channels, the bandwith for this one is lower and it is less prone to oscilate...But you will loose the compensation pin mod goodness.)


----------



## hypophysis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_The white noise seems like the amp is oscilating, try ferrites on the input and output, or maybe a cap from each input to ground, choose 1000pF or the like....(also you could try the OPA627 on all 3 channels, the bandwith for this one is lower and it is less prone to oscilate...But you will loose the compensation pin mod goodness.)_

 

I already have OPA627 on all channels. But I agree that this could be oscillation. The noise morphs from white noise to buzzing and buzzing changes frequeny an volume. Sounds really weird.
 My PPA is fully breadboarded, maybe all these sockets between PCB and parts cause the oscillation. Maybe I should desolder these IC sockets and solder the resistors, the 100pf cap and the buffers directly to the PCB. But my soldering skills are not like doobooloo's and I am afraid of damaging the amp.


----------



## bg4533

My PPA is fully socketed too. I run OPA627s all around. The diamond buffers sound great. I haven't checked them on a scope though.

 Are you sure you have the buffers assembled right? Are the transistors in the right place? Are any of the leads from the buffers contacting the sockets? Did you do the soldering on the bottom of the board like necessary? Have you tried switching the buffers between channels to see if one is possibly bad?

 Any chance you can post high resolution pictures of the PPA and buffers?


----------



## BradJudy

My buffers are in and sound great. They put out some heat, but not so much that you can't touch them. Thanks Glassman.


----------



## hypophysis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bg4533* 
_My PPA is fully socketed too. I run OPA627s all around. The diamond buffers sound great. I haven't checked them on a scope though.

 Are you sure you have the buffers assembled right? Are the transistors in the right place? Are any of the leads from the buffers contacting the sockets? Did you do the soldering on the bottom of the board like necessary? Have you tried switching the buffers between channels to see if one is possibly bad?

 Any chance you can post high resolution pictures of the PPA and buffers?_

 

The buffers were assembled by glassman. Switching buffers brings no success. The soldering was performed as described. I have put in 100pf BC-Components axial polypropylene caps. I really have no idea what has gone wrong. When I put the chip buffers back, all problems disapear. Maybe there was something wrong with the amp before, but the Intersils are more tolerant against instabilities.


----------



## individual6891

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hypophysis* 
_The buffers were assembled by glassman. Switching buffers brings no success. The soldering was performed as described. I have put in 100pf BC-Components axial polypropylene caps. I really have no idea what has gone wrong. When I put the chip buffers back, all problems disapear. Maybe there was something wrong with the amp before, but the Intersils are more tolerant against instabilities._

 

Pictures of your board would do wonders for diagnosis.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

hypophysis, did you bridge the yellow marked points in glassman's ppa-schematic (s. above)? i'm just wondering... you flip the intersils in and out, obviously without undoing those modifications. maybe you missed them?


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *motherone* 
_Glassman,

 I'm a big fan of the AD744/746 (the dual version). I have a 746 running in an audio alchemy DAC and it sounds great. Specwise, it's very similar to the 627/637, but has slightly poorer noise performance, and some better specs elsewhere (If I recall correctly).

 Great chip, though! I still need to put my buffers together.. Since I'm going to be swapping out my Elantecs, I thought that I would get a second PPA board just so I could have a PPA with the old buffers and a PPA with the Diamond Buffers. 

 Please post the details of your 744 mods.. I'd be interested in giving them a try (hell, I really like the chip WITH the output circuitry.. I'd love to see how it sounds without it!)_

 

This is how I have my portable PPA/with aos DAC http://aoselectronics.com/pace.html
 at the moment with the AD8021 connected with its comp pin used as the output this alone improved the sound of the DAC substantially however required hour or so of hand selecting Resistors to trim DC offset as more than 0.2 mV when amplified up to 10 times by the PPA and another possible 10 at full bass boost its easy to see how this seemingly harmless DC offset on the output of the DAC can end up at almost a half of a volt at the headphone jack, hence hand matching resistor DC correction resistors for this added DC correction circuit. Yes the sonic improvement was worth it.

 Using the AD744 in this manner has been talked about previously on these forums
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=473

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:y...4+preamp&hl=en

 The Ad744 reached somewhat of a cult status a few decades ago as Rick mentioned Walt Jung used this with his universal output stage the AD811

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rickcr42* 
_the "original" Jung multiloop amp used this baby along with the AD811.

 There is also a pdf for download out there from an old Audio Amatuer (now called Audio Xpress) article that uses this combination in a full feature preamp,the Valkyrie.Some nice layouts/power supply/bypassing ideas in the article.

 STILL a valid and fine sounding design though out of fashion with the "gotta be new' crew.

 Old does not always mean bad because good sound is timeless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Ah yes another great idea populated for Audio by Walt Jung. BTW you can look at this site (Everything you wanted to Know about Audio on the WWW) and locate the actual articles http://www.artsandmedia.com/audio.html


 My First Line stage based upon this concept was from an industrial application of the Old and might I add costly LH-00032 FET input op amp and the upgraded LH0063 Fet input Buffer.
http://www.alldatasheet.co.kr/datash.../LH0032CG.html
http://www.alldatasheet.co.kr/datash.../LH0063CK.html
 and later upgraded to an Apex device.

 As for the PPA the only two recent Op amps that are usable that have a comp pin useable for this purpose are the HA5160 and AD744 with the HA5160 discontinued this leaves only the AD744 remaining. Rick makes a good point about all the good op amps, Transistors and even Tubes are fading away leaving only one size fits all generic types.


----------



## Akku

I didn't understand if it is advisable to try the 744 with the output stage bypassed in a PPA with Intersil buffers. I don't plan to go the discrete buffer way for the moment (I am working on M3) but I'd like to try that 744 stuff.
 BTW Do the trick apply to the ground channel too?


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Akku* 
_I didn't understand if it is advisable to try the 744 with the output stage bypassed in a PPA with Intersil buffers. I don't plan to go the discrete buffer way for the moment (I am working on M3) but I'd like to try that 744 stuff.
 BTW Do the trick apply to the ground channel too?_

 

Yes on each


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hypophysis* 
_The buffers were assembled by glassman. Switching buffers brings no success. The soldering was performed as described. I have put in 100pf BC-Components axial polypropylene caps. I really have no idea what has gone wrong. When I put the chip buffers back, all problems disapear. Maybe there was something wrong with the amp before, but the Intersils are more tolerant against instabilities._

 

I have had similer problemems and what fixed em was ether a 100 ohm load resistor on each channel soldered right on the headphone jack is ok. a change in the value of R14 (If thats the input Resistor glassman uses) from 1K to 1.5-2K also try an ad8610 in the ground channel temperaraly and see if the problem goes away also the value of C6G might need to be 100-200 pF.

 Input grounding is ultra critical on the PPA as it has minimium of on board ground plane area and the active ground channel can and will act just like another input. (Mono Of course). The PPA demands a large ground area from its chassis and that the input Jacks be well Grounded. the ungrounded cover mentioned is a classic eample of the cover acting like a big antenna and the ground channel passing that along.

 Note the above worked on my buffers and i have not tried them on glassmans so this info may or may not apply to your situation.

 Oh so if these Don't fix the problem


----------



## Glassman

these buffers have whole different input impedance characteristics than Intersils and also the older generation discretes, that's why they're so prone to such problems, however the 100pF cap across the input resistor fixed these problems for me and like you can see for most of us.. loading the outputs with 100R resistors is another way how to get rid of these problems, you might try that if it makes the problem go away.. another interesting try would be removing the 100p cap from ground channel, leaving it only on left & right.. oh and what's your C6 on ground? also try different phones if you can..


----------



## hypophysis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_hypophysis, did you bridge the yellow marked points in glassman's ppa-schematic (s. above)? i'm just wondering... you flip the intersils in and out, obviously without undoing those modifications. maybe you missed them?_

 

Of course I did. The Glassman buffer uses BUF4 input, so when I put an Intersil on BUF1 and populate R11 with 1K resistor, there is no problem using either 1 Intersil or the GDB. The solder bridge on BUF1 V- shouldn't be a problem, because PPA1.1 has this connection already on the PCB.
 I will try playing around with C6G. My amp is populated with a 100pf cap in this position. The schematics on tangents page say 10pf, so I guess most people use 10pf caps.

 Thanks to all for your advice. I'll keep you updated.


----------



## Glassman

in fact I use 100p C6, so this probably isn't going to help.. you however can play with R14 value, try 500R-2k2 see if the situation changes.. try different phones, different opamps if possible..


----------



## hypophysis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_these buffers have whole different input impedance characteristics than Intersils and also the older generation discretes, that's why they're so prone to such problems, however the 100pF cap across the input resistor fixed these problems for me and like you can see for most of us.. loading the outputs with 100R resistors is another way how to get rid of these problems, you might try that if it makes the problem go away.. another interesting try would be removing the 100p cap from ground channel, leaving it only on left & right.. oh and what's your C6 on ground? also try different phones if you can.._

 

Thanks Glassman, the 100pf "C14" on the ground channel was the problem, maybe it doesn't work with a 100pf C6G bandwith limiting cap. I have removed C14 on the ground channel, and now everything is dead quiet.
 When I come around an electronics store the next time, I'll buy an 10pf cap for C6G and try if this works together with the 100pf C14G.
 Maybe you could try 100pf on C6G at home and try to reproduce the instability I discovered.


----------



## hypophysis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_in fact I use 100p C6, so this probably isn't going to help.. you however can play with R14 value, try 500R-2k2 see if the situation changes.. try different phones, different opamps if possible.._

 

So this constellation doesn't necessary cause instability. Does anyone with better electronics background have an idea why C14G caused the instability on my amp?


----------



## Glassman

glad it works for you! I have 100p C6 and was in fact originally running with 100p caps across R14 only on left & right channels, simply because I found just two in my personal stash at that time, it worked perfectly right.. only after some time I added 100p across R14 on the ground channel too, just to have all channels as symetrical as possible, it worked equally good for me..

 so to all of you possibely dealing with such problems, don't bypass ground channel's R14 with that 100p cap supplied


----------



## Glassman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hypophysis* 
_So this constellation doesn't necessary cause instability. Does anyone with better electronics background have an idea why C14G caused the instability on my amp?_

 

it's a game of phase, that 100p cap is serving as a phase/impedance correction, maybe you have different inductance on the path due to the sockets resulting in different phase behavior..


----------



## hypophysis

Another question:
 What problems did you exactly have before bypassing the input resistors on left and right channel with 100pF caps? Did you use a scope to proof the behaviour of the buffers?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_these buffers have whole different input impedance characteristics than Intersils and also the older generation discretes, that's why they're so prone to such problems, however the 100pF cap across the input resistor fixed these problems for me and like you can see for most of us.. loading the outputs with 100R resistors is another way how to get rid of these problems, you might try that if it makes the problem go away.. another interesting try would be removing the 100p cap from ground channel, leaving it only on left & right.. oh and what's your C6 on ground? also try different phones if you can.._


----------



## rayofsi

had the same problem as hypophysis

 removed the ground c14 and voila the noise is gone.


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ufokillerz* 
_had the same problem as hypophysis

 removed the ground c14 and voila the noise is gone._

 

Oh forgot about Glasmans Phase compensation C14 yes this in concert with the allready on board C6G is actualy resulting in too much feedback at High frequencies. You have just discovered what is wrong with too much overall feedback.


----------



## motu

Could someone do a comparison between the different kinds of diamond buffers available? That would be very interesting.


----------



## bubbamc119

Hi guys.
 Can I use axial ceramic 100pF capacitors for C14 or does it need to be polypropylene?
 Cheers


----------



## bg4533

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bubbamc119* 
_Hi guys.
 Can I use axial ceramic 100pF capacitors for C14 or does it need to be polypropylene?
 Cheers_

 

I believe that cap is in the signal path. I have always heard ceramic doesn't work the best there. I don't think it will affect stability, just sound.


----------



## ljhodad

Going from the Intersils to the 2nd gens. brought out what I would describe as a more refined sound that enabled more clairity and depth. Re-listening to an Ernie Watts track, I could discern the sound of the sax's valves for the first time. PPA has three OPA627s. Kudos to MisterX for the installation.


----------



## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ljhodad* 
_Going from the Intersils to the 2nd gens. brought out what I would describe as a more refined sound that enabled more clairity and depth. Re-listening to an Ernie Watts track, I could discern the sound of the sax's valves for the first time. PPA has three OPA627s. Kudos to MisterX for the installation._

 


 Replace those dark sounding 627's by AD8065 (at least) and you will hear the valves, and the finger tapping them....


----------



## bubbamc119

Just received my kit, thanks bg4533.
 A quick question,
 In my kit I have 4 blue box type capacitors, I'm assuming these are for the buffer pcb (1 for each buffer, 1 spare). I also have 3 red capacitors (not box type) with '101J PE:' printed on them. Are these the 100pF capacitors to be used for C14 on the PPA board? They look different from capacitors in pics earlier in this thread so I want to make sure.
 Thanks guys
 Bubba


----------



## Glassman

despite different looks, you are right in your assumptions.. if you look through the last posts here you will realise it is good idea to populate C14 only on left and right channels, leaving one 100p spare..


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_despite different looks, you are right in your assumptions.. if you look through the last posts here you will realise it is good idea to populate C14 only on left and right channels, leaving one 100p spare.._

 

That depends on the value of C6. 
 If C6 = 10pF you are gonna need that cap. 
 If C6 = 100pF you don't need that cap and installing it will cause problems.


----------



## hypophysis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MisterX* 
_That depends on the value of C6. 
 If C6 = 10pF you are gonna need that cap. 
 If C6 = 100pF you don't need that cap and installing it will cause problems._

 

Any idea if one could do it vice versa - put the cap on the ground channel like on L and R, and leave C6G position unpopulated?


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hypophysis* 
_Any idea if one could do it vice versa - put the cap on the ground channel like on L and R, and leave C6G position unpopulated?_

 

No don't do that


----------



## @sia@home

What would happen if i used these caps for C14 in my PPA with the glassman buffers

 Technical/Catalog InformationBC1621-ND
 Standard Package2000
 CategoryCapacitors
 FamilyPolyester Film
 VendorBC Components
 Capacitance0.1µF
 Voltage-Rated63V
 Tolerance±10%
 SeriesMKT
 Package / CaseRadial
 PackagingBulk
 FeaturesGeneral Purpose
 Maximum Temperature105°C
 Other NamesBC1621


----------



## Glassman

most likely wouldn't work.. 0.1uF is 1000x more than 100pF.. they're there to compensate the phase shift, rather delicate task..


----------



## peranders

Is it the one between opamp output <-> inverting input, if yes, the effect would be that the buffer would run without feedback, except for low frequencies, pretty pointless to make this cap big in other words.

 A good NPO ceramic or polypropulene would be fine in this position.


----------



## @sia@home

Its just im again having problems finding stuff in Australia, without making a new order from digikey, which I may aswell do now, I think.

 Hmmmm

 I wasn't betting on such a large value working anyway.


----------



## @sia@home

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peranders* 
_Is it the one between opamp output <-> inverting input, if yes, the effect would be that the buffer would run without feedback, except for low frequencies, pretty pointless to make this cap big in other words.

 A good NPO ceramic or polypropulene would be fine in this position._

 

I understand what you are saying, what I am saying, is i have 0.1uF caps here, that will fit, I don't know if I can get 100pFs anytime soon.

 Will it work, and do its job? or going this large not let it do its job?


----------



## amb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *@sia@home* 
_I understand what you are saying, what I am saying, is i have 0.1uF caps here, that will fit, I don't know if I can get 100pFs anytime soon.
 Will it work, and do its job? or going this large not let it do its job?_

 

0.1uF is way too large a capacitance for that. There is no local source for 100pF silver mica or multilayer ceramic capacitors?


----------



## skyskraper

asia at home, what parts are you having a hard time finding? i find i can get 99% of what i need from altronics, rs, farnell, and futurlec (futurlec for transistors and other small bits that the others have, got all my gilmore stuff from them almost)


----------



## skyskraper

100pf polyester cap. 
 farnell number: 3834074
http://au.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear...=3834074&N=401

 edit:
 RS number: 115-635
 Wima 100pF polypropylene fkp2


----------



## peranders

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *@sia@home* 
_I understand what you are saying, what I am saying, is i have 0.1uF caps here, that will fit, I don't know if I can get 100pFs anytime soon.

 Will it work, and do its job? or going this large not let it do its job?_

 

It will work but not as intended, see my previous post. I have a hard time to understand that you can't get a 100 pF in Australia fast enough.


----------



## hypophysis

I have purchased a 10 pF silver mica and put it in C6G position and also put the 100 pF cap on C14G - this configuration seems also stable.
 So which one ist the (theoretically) better choice:
 Leave out Glassman's C14G cap and put 100 pF on C6G, or populate C14G 100 pF and put 10 pF on C6G?

 edit:
 I have to correct myself. The config I've tried with 100pF C14G and 10pF C6G is a lot more stable than 100pf/100pF but there is still some faint noise when I turn on the amp and some buzzing when I touch the headphone jack, altough this disappears after some minutes of warming up.


----------



## motu

Which of the ad744 opamps listed on the analogue devices site should I buy for the PPA?

http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,AD744,00.html


----------



## steinchen

one of the dip-8 packaged versions
 AD744JN / AD744JNZ / AD744KN / AD744KNZ 
 the k-types are higher grade

 please note that you'll need a 5pF or 10pF compensation cap if you want to use ad744 in the ground channel (in non-inverting mode uncompensated only stable at gain greater than 2)


----------



## motu

How do I use the compensation cap?


----------



## steinchen

ad744.pdf datasheet 

 across pins 5 and 8, I mounted the cap directly on the opamp. 

 bypassing the output-stage of the opamp is highly recommended. easiest way to do this is to build an adapter-socket: bridge pins 5 and 6 on dip-8 sockets and bend pin 6 up before plugging the opamp into the socket and the adapter into the PPA. Be sure to remove the classA bias cascode if you use ad744 bypassed, I recommend to socket the R10 resistors


----------



## Glassman

no, there's no need for any additional compensation and the opamp should not be simply put in place of the previous, you should use the compensation pin instead of the regular output pin.. that means bridging pins 5 and 6 on the opamp socket and bending the opamp's output pin out of the way so that it doesn't touch the socket, you will also need to disable the class A biasing by the means of disconnecting the inline 1k resistor that's in front of the jfet cascode..

 the guide is posted back here..


----------



## __redruM

I'm trying to "mod" my PPA v1.1 for the GDB, and am unsure how it differs from PPA v1.0. Here's my guess. My biggest point of confusion is C14. There isn't a C14 on v1.1. Is there really one on v1.0, or is this where the 'extra' cap from the kit goes? Lastly, do I still need to make the bridge on v1.1?

 Here is my guess on the v1.1 procedure for L, R and G, can someone confirm it or fix it?

 1. Remove R12
 2. Install 'extra' cap in R12.
 3. Bridge R12 buffer side to R14 buffer side.
 4. Remove intersil buffers.
 5. Edit Remove C3.
 6. Install diamond buffers.

 If I'm wrong, a schematic would help. Not the schematic to the buffer, but a modified ppa1.1 schematic.


----------



## MisterX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Glassman* 
_1) remove R12 (original PPA v1.0 artwork) and put 100pF polypropylene cap there instead (this position is re-marked as C14 on my modified artwork)

 2) short leads of C14 with R14 using solder bridge from underside of the board_

 

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...&postcount=568

 Nuff said?


----------



## __redruM

Got it, thanks. So my version is correct.

 Do I need to protect the bottom of the buffer? There seems to be plenty of places for it touch on the sockets.

 Edit: I went ahead and put some electrical tape on the bottoms, and I'm up and running!

 Cool LEDs!


----------



## bg4533

Covering the bottom of the buffer isn't necessary, but is probably a good idea. If you cut your soldering very close to the board it shouldn't contact the sockets. Either way the soldering should be cut down so the buffers fit securely in the sockets.


----------



## bas

Well, I was searching the thread for schematics... I was really quite pleased with myself for 'discovering' the "Search this thread" facility. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morsel* 
_Not publishing schematics of the Glassman buffer gives the impression that it is a commercial, proprietary product, or has something to hide. This secrecy is not in the spirit of the PPA project or the DIY community. Someone could examine his buffer and figure out the schematic if they were so inclined, but it would be far better if Glassman posted the schematic instead of teasing the community with vague claims. Is this DIY, or is this a commercial product?_

 

Oh well. I'm not looking for a buffer specially for the PPA. So I don't care about the pcb's nifty design; surely though, the PCB+kit must be very nice for PPA owners. Cheers, Ben


----------



## __redruM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bg4533* 
_Covering the bottom of the buffer isn't necessary, but is probably a good idea. If you cut your soldering very close to the board it shouldn't contact the sockets. Either way the soldering should be cut down so the buffers fit securely in the sockets._

 

I did have issues without the "Cover." The amp wouldn't power up without them. I think they cause a short between V+ and V-. Luckily nothing burnt up. I had to cut, file, and cover the bottom.


----------



## BrokenEnglish

while fiddling around with the rail capacitance of my ppa 1.0b i also began bypassing c4 and c5 with small ceramics and fkps. the sound was quite nice until i decided to try this also with c2. after some strange experiences with my ongoing moddings of the wna rails i developed some sort of aversion to polyester caps for rail bypassing. so i decided to solder out those big 4,7µf wima mks caps in c2 and replace them with 0,082µf wima fkp (+0,022µf from the bottom side): this brought the mids back to stage again.. very nice! 
 maybe that's related to the way tangent recommends to use relatively small caps at c2 with the v2 (s. assembly guide) ?


----------



## ppl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BrokenEnglish* 
_while fiddling around with the rail capacitance of my ppa 1.0b i also began bypassing c4 and c5 with small ceramics and fkps. the sound was quite nice until i decided to try this also with c2. after some strange experiences with my ongoing moddings of the wna rails i developed some sort of aversion to polyester caps for rail bypassing. so i decided to solder out those big 4,7µf wima mks caps in c2 and replace them with 0,082µf wima fkp (+0,022µf from the bottom side): this brought the mids back to stage again.. very nice! 
 maybe that's related to the way tangent recommends to use relatively small caps at c2 with the v2 (s. assembly guide) ?_

 

i have allways like the different value cap idea as talked about prior and Tangent did not see any reason not to go that way. I belive as stated above the combo of large and small film caps are better than just one value for all C2's. I also recomend that the smaller film caps be placed so as to be between the buffer channels so thats alternate small cap big cap then small again this leaves 3 large value caps i use 0.56uF/160V Box polypropylene Film ether BC or wima MKP-10 and 0.02uF/160 Volt Wima Box MKP-4 type


----------



## boodi

sorry , I'm so noob I quite feel intrusive posting a question here....
 I'm interested to know what's the current status of the ppav2 that is - what's the current best sounding setup for it .

 also : 
 I have a ppa v1.1b and i'd like to know if overall improvement are marginals or not .
 I'm very pleased with my ppa v1.1b , now running on 627/637 and probably trying some 8065 in the near future.


----------



## picklgreen

Has anyone tried different types of transistors in their buffers? Acording to the designer of the buffers for the Millet Hybrid amp, the transistors used in the glassman buffers are "slim sound, a little on the bright side. cheap and easy to source.) I have ordered some different transistors and will note my findings.

 I plan to try:

 MJE243/MJE253
 2SC 2238 y/2SA 968 y
 2SC 3422 y/2SA 1359 y

 there are a couple other BD series that will work also such as the BD135-16/BD126-16 and the BD 137-16/BD 138-16.


----------



## dvbjunky

Newb question:

 Can I use this buffer without any modification in other devices? I want to use it with a Digital Volume pot....input/output buffering.


----------



## TzeYang

You might want to be careful with the pot value. Since the input is BJT, it means that the input bias could be quite high, and you'll get some high dc offset when the pot is at maximum resistance.


----------



## mwallace573

Talk about a thread resurrection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for bringing this thread back to the light, as I have a particularly burning question regarding the Glassman DB; namely where the hell can you get a set of them these days?


----------



## TzeYang

You cant.

 I believe he does not produce them anymore.

 Anyway, you can get almost the same thing out of Perander's QRV-05. In fact, both are extremely similar. The only difference is that Perander's buffer will have lower output transistor junction capacitance and while Glassman's buffer will have higher power output due to bigger device.


----------



## mwallace573

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You cant.

 I believe he does not produce them anymore.

 Anyway, you can get almost the same thing out of Perander's QRV-05. In fact, both are extremely similar. The only difference is that Perander's buffer will have lower output transistor junction capacitance and while Glassman's buffer will have higher power output due to bigger device._

 

Interesting. The only threads I've seen that talk about the QRV-05 are in regards to Pimetas. Would these work or be made to work in an older PPA?


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## TzeYang

You'll have to hot wire them though. You cant use it as a direct drop in.


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