# New info: Musical Paradise MP-301 MK2



## micmacmo

I've been corresponding with Garry at Musical Paradise and he shared some information on the upcoming update of the MP-301. He said it would be okay if I posted this information here. I thought it might be of general interest, given the good reception the original MP-301 tube amp received. 
   
  Here is a list of improvements found in the MP-301 MK2.

 The output power will has been increased by 25% (6W Class A single ended).
 The power transformer is larger and uses better Z11/M6 EI core.
 It supports 6V6, 6L6 and EL34 tubes. 
 The pre-amp tubes have been upgraded to 6SJ7.
 Two pairs of RCA inputs with switch have been added.
 24K gold-plated RCA terminals and speaker terminals have been upgraded. 
 The headphone plug has been moved to the front.
 A manual speaker and headphone switch is added, so the users do not need to unplug the headphone whenever they want to use speakers.
 Output transformers are upgraded to slightly larger and better Z11/M6 EI cores.
 The chassis is upgraded with aluminum face and back plates.
 Coupling caps have been upgraded to higher grade Wima and Rifa MKP.
 Cathode caps have been upgraded from Nippon to Big Blue Philips BC.
 Cathode resistors have also been upgraded to Dale. Made in USA. 
 A choke has been added.
 It will be available in March. The price will be about $250.


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## Ultrainferno

Looks interesting!


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## micmacmo

Looks like a solid upgrade all around. I really like the original, so it makes sense to keep the fundamental architecture while improving the components and adding the features that users have requested.


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## sk3383

Sounds very intriguing!! Very interested!! Did they give you a estimated release date?


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## sk3383

Actually found my answer here: http://www.musicalparadise.ca/wordpress/
   
  Looks like it will be available sometime in March.


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## blackzarg

This sounds great! I just heard about the MP301 and am very interested. The upgrades seem worth the $50 price increase.


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## Ultrainferno

blackzarg said:


> This sounds great! I just heard about the MP301 and am very interested. The upgrades seem worth the $50 price increase.





 


For how much will it sell then?


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## leesure

_It will be available in March. The price will be about $250._
   
  I was speaking to Garry the other day and was told the HP jack will only see about 750mW to 1W.  I think it's just the speaker terminals that will see 6W.


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## Skylab

Wow, that is cool that it will use the 6SJ7. I did not know that. I will get to use all the nice 6SJ7GT's I have that have been sitting idle since I sold my DV337. I think I am going to get a review loaner; I hope so, since this seems promising.


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## blackzarg

That is still fine by me! This is perfect, actually, since I have been wanting to try out the tube sound for both speakers and headphones. This seems like a great way to get my feet wet.

  
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> _It will be available in March. The price will be about $250._
> 
> I was speaking to Garry the other day and was told the HP jack will only see about 750mW to 1W.  I think it's just the speaker terminals that will see 6W.


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## Fantoon

Will follow this thread with great anticipation. Thanks for the info.


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## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





fantoon said:


> Will follow this thread with great anticipation. Thanks for the info.


 


  Too bad we in Europe will have to pay like 25% import taxes and stuff


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## KuKuBuKu

Quote: 





leesure said:


> _It will be available in March. The price will be about $250._
> 
> I was speaking to Garry the other day and was told the HP jack will only see about 750mW to 1W.  I think it's just the speaker terminals that will see 6W.


 
  6W speaker out? I smell a cheap Orthro amp


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## leesure

Quote: 





kukubuku said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's EXACTLY what I'm hoping!


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## blackzarg

In the meantime... is there anything that's similar to the MP301 in terms or price or feature (both headphone and speaker amp)?


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## burgunder

Ming Da MC 84C07 could be an option it can be had for 300$ plus shipping.


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## leesure

Maverick Audio A-1


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## blackzarg

Cool stuff. The Maverick Audio A1 looks particularly interesting. On second thought though, the addition of a pair of inputs would help me hook more things up to the amp, and may be worthwhile!


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## popa

What is a cheap Orthro amp? Second thought what is a Orthro amp?


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## Skylab

An amp that will drive Orthodynamic headphones


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## project86

Or _Orthro_dynamic headphones, as the case may be....


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## KuKuBuKu

Quote: 





project86 said:


> Or _Orthro_dynamic headphones, as the case may be....


 
  we shall see.


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## popa

What about the JV5 amp by AOL. This amp looks fairly cool. I don know how it sounds. I do know the headphones run all tube.Myself I am waiting for MKII


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## mythless

Cool, this looks promising!


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## eclein

I have the original and will absolutely get this new one. These are a steal... mine was purchased used for $150 and its the best $150 I've spent. Its was for cans but drives my JBL's and the cans and anything I throw at it. I like the two inputs.
  Very cool!!!


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## disgruntleddave

Any update on this? It's march and I'll be needing an amp very soon, and one that can handle speakers and my soon to arrive headphones would be a fantastic bonus.


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## micmacmo

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> Any update on this? It's march and I'll be needing an amp very soon, and one that can handle speakers and my soon to arrive headphones would be a fantastic bonus.


 

 I haven't heard anything further, but I did hear from the organizer of the March 20 Calgary head-fi meet that Garry will be there with a MK2.


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## hello im sean

Hmm I'm curious how this will stack up to some of the DIY amps below the $400 mark, this seems like a steal for $250


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## disgruntleddave

Quote: 





musedesign said:


> Looks like the Musical Paradise MP-301 MK2 will be on pre sale Monday!
> 
> Email from Garry at Musical Paradise:
> "I will upload the details of the MK2 to the website on Monday. There will be a pre-order sale.
> ...


 


  
   
  (from another thread)
   
  Are details up? Curse this IT-limited internet browsing.


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## Ultrainferno

Can't see anything yet


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## disgruntleddave

Do they have a proper website?


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## Skylab

http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/


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## Rockyhill

I'm drooling with anticipation!


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## disgruntleddave

I need informations!
   
  I should probably do more research too, and burn in my yet to arrive hd-600s before I start assuming I'll want a tube amp, letalone this one in particular.
   
  I've only listened to a tube amp setup (speakers) a couple times in my life (they were top of the line) and I still remember the sound. So sweet. I think I want a tube. Hrm...
   
  I've just been given a record player and am listening to vinyl for the first time on what is most certainly a very low (medium low at best) quality player and amp. So good though. So good.


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## leesure

Still no update


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## Petyot

Pre-order :
   
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=75


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## leesure

Ordering this for sure!


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## popa

http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=75. You can see the amp on Garry's web site now. It looks real good. I am ordering one. But then I am a fan of the first one.


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## disgruntleddave

I kinda liked the wider look of the first one.

 Still looks pretty nice. I might try it out. Wonder when they start shipping out.
   
  aaaaand I'm blind.
   
  9 days before my birthday. That can be my present to myself.


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## Rockyhill

Order has been placed.
   
  At first I was concerned about the narrow width and deep look, but that format will actually work better for me as this is a bedroom system.
   
  Really exited about my first tube amp.


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## disgruntleddave

Nevermind.
   
  Anyway, order placed. This will be my first tube amp. Really excited.


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> When I try to checkout an order, it tells me I can't because my login has timed out.
> 
> Nothing is taking long at all. Cookies enabled and all. Not sure why it's happening.


 

 Keep trying, Dave. I had issues with their site too. Probably due to high traffic.


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## disgruntleddave

Thanks. I got it working.
   
  I'm order 95. Don't know if that's just of that amp or their site is really new.


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





popa said:


> http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=75. You can see the amp on Garry's web site now. It looks real good. I am ordering one. But then I am a fan of the first one.


 


 Thanks for posting this. I had a reminder to check on Monday (although I would have looked sooner!) Order has been placed. Wife saw the email order confirmation before I could tell her I bought it. She approved!


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> Thanks. I got it working.
> 
> I'm order 95. Don't know if that's just of that amp or their site is really new.


 


 I'm 94. Look forward to comparing notes!


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## Skylab

I'm so fired up that this amp uses the 6SJ7 for the driver tube.  I have a ton of nice ones left over from my DV337 days - will finally get to use them again! 
   
  In fact, will use original Mullard EL34's and Tung-sol mesh 6SJ7GT's...that will be a very nice tube complement...


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## disgruntleddave

I'm just hoping that this + hd600s (yet to purchase) won't be unpleasantly warm.
   
  In any case, very excited for both.


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## coconutboy

90+ preorders in already? Looking forward to everyone's impressions, especially you Senn 600 owners.


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## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm so fired up that this amp uses the 6SJ7 for the driver tube.  I have a ton of nice ones left over from my DV337 days - will finally get to use them again!
> 
> In fact, will use original Mullard EL34's and Tung-sol mesh 6SJ7GT's...that will be a very nice tube complement...


 


  We look forward to your review already


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## Skylab

Garry from MP told me I should have the review loaner in a few weeks.


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## micmacmo

skylab said:


> Garry from MP told me I should have the review loaner in a few weeks.



As soon as Christmas ended, my 9-year-old son started making his wish list for next year. That's what head-fi reminds me of, the constant anticipation of something delightful just ahead, whether it's a new amp or headphones or a new artist to share. Or, in this case, an awaited review. Looking forward to your words, Skylab.


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## popa

I am also looking forward to reading your review skylab. Your reviews,and others is what got me in this expensive life style. I ordered mine direct. My invoice is 02. Must be a lot of patient customers out there.


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## Greeni

Anyone can recommend loudspeakers that could be well driven by those fleeting 6 watts ?


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## maverickronin

Some Klipschorns will probably get the floorboards moving from 6 watts.
   
  Horns = Crazy efficiency.


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## project86

When used in a near-field listening situation, pretty much any mini-monitor style speaker will get plenty loud.


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## KuKuBuKu

How about for orthos?


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## leesure

Remains to be seen...but Slylab is getting a review sample and has orthos to test.


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## eclein

I currently drive JBL ND310II that are 91db efficient and in my 18 X 16 room its awesome, it gets loud and the dynamics, the punch is wonderful. I was going to use this as a dedicated headphone amp but with speakers its wonderful and I got alot of vintage JBL's that all sing with the 6 watts.
  you'll be shocked and the new version does it better I'm told.


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## Ultrainferno

So I guess that means they would have no problem with B&W speakers ~ 89dB and 4ohm


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## disgruntleddave

I'll probably need new speakers eventually, but I'll have to try this amp out with what I've got now to start.
   
  I was given a record player, tuner, amp, tape deck and speakers. Aiwa LX-70 (record player), mx-70 (amp) and sx-7 (speakers). I haven't really been able to find information on their impedance / sensitivity. I'll just cross my fingers that they will work for now.


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## Skylab

ultrainferno said:


> So I guess that means they would have no problem with B&W speakers ~ 89dB and 4ohm




That is very debatable, and will depend on a lot of factors. 89 dB sensitivity is the volume at 1 M distance with 1 W power. If you sit 3 M for your speakers, which is only 9 feet, you would need 4 watts to get the same 89 dB. So depending on how loud you listen, and how far away you sit from your speakers, it might very well not be nearly enough.


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## Ultrainferno

Oh, I'm about 4-5 meters away, but it's a big room (loft)
  Thanks for explaining that Skylab!


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## Skylab

The volume calculation is always simpler for headphones because you don't have to factor in distance


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## eclein

As far as the db thing goes, in my same room I was using the amp hooked up to smaller three ways at 89db efficiency and it was a noticeable difference 2-3 more volume positions up to get same level of sound. The difference is only a few db but it does make a difference, I got lucky with the big JBL's I didn't know the efficiency until after I set it up and then tried the other ones and then researced the efficiency of each. We can help you find the efficiency of your B&W I'm sure. 
   The fact that the headphone jack is on the front is huge, I wouldn't have thought it was going to be just a nagging PITA with it in the back but it is...funny how we set priorities--I heard about the headphone jack change and was ready to buy but no money yet...soon.


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## disgruntleddave

boourns 
   
  "The production of MP-301 MK2 is almost completed. In order to provide better quality output transformers, the production schedule was delayed. You can pre-order it now and save 5%. The estimated shipping date will be April 15, 2011"


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## Greeni

For near field listening with those fleeting 6 watts I am not really concerned with loudless level, but in my experience loudspeakers not sufficiently powered will not have sufficient control. Transient resposnse become flabby and bass become boomy, etc., much like you could get reasonably loud level powering certain phones from an ipod but you always get better control and sonics with a proper headphone amp, and as we know even efficient phones like RS1i sound better with a headphone amp notwithstanding that it could go quite loud with portables.
   
  I look forward to audition the Triangle Titus EX, commensurate price level and 91db. Some has referred the Triangle line as SET friendly and may work well with the 301.


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## Greeni

an update, shipment has already begun for certain places outside USA and Canada


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





greeni said:


> an update, shipment has already begun for certain places outside USA and Canada


 


 Yes, mine is on the way. It cleared China customs yesterday.


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## jeust0999

Reviews!
   
  ...or at least detailed impressions.
   
  Pictures are a must. Thanks.


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## Raul

Mine too is already on its way from China to Italy!


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## popa

Mine has shipped also. I sure am looking forward to trying it out.


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## disgruntleddave

I wonder if ones will start shipping out of canada soon too. *crosses fingers*


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## micmacmo

Garry brought a MK2 to the Calgary meet. I can't speak for individuals but I think the consensus was that the new amp drove everything, including some tough-to-power orthos, well. It sounded very good with my K701 and was an improvement in most respects to the original MP-301.


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## disgruntleddave

was he running the stock tubes?


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## micmacmo

Yes, he had some stock tubes as well as something a bit more exotic...although I don't recall exactly which manufacturer. I believe they were all Chinese made, though.


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## Rockyhill

Did he demo with speakers too?


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## micmacmo

No, the venue wasn't set up for speakers. He also brought another amp; larger and for speakers-only that didn't make it out of the carton.


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## disgruntleddave

Looks? It's all about the sound.


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## disgruntleddave

Any more info to get me excited (or not)?
   
  I'm new to tube amps. I know they have a warm sound generally, but I'm wondering about brightness. How did this compare brightness wise? Do specific tubes give a brighter sound?


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## LingLing1337

So does anyone know if this would be a suitable addition to my Peachtree Decco? (I've always heard it's an amazing DAC/pre with a so-so amp section) I'm gonna be picking up some B&W 685 hopefully, and while I figure my Decco's 50 WPC should do the trick, I think I'm at the point where a separate amp would be beneficial.


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## Rockyhill

For those of us who have a Mk2 en route direct from China, do you understand the tracking process? http://www.track-chinapost.com/ When I do the track, it just says "Passed China Customs". Anyone else order from China before?


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## disgruntleddave

sounds to me like it passed through chinese customs on its way out of the country. Now it's probably in a cargo container on a boat headed over, if you're overseas.
  Just be patient, don't bother with tracking every day, and soon enough you'll have a surprise at your door!


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> sounds to me like it passed through chinese customs on its way out of the country. Now it's probably in a cargo container on a boat headed over, if you're overseas.
> Just be patient, don't bother with tracking every day, and soon enough you'll have a surprise at your door!


 


   I know, just excited about the new toy. Still a 5 year old at heart.


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## popa

I have a couple of times. Passed China customs means it hasn't gotten very far. It is hard to be patient.


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## moldypotato

Highly interested in this amp. As a guitarist, im very familiar with 6l6 and EL34 tubes and their sound characteristics. Would be very nice to have something i can use with tubes i will be purchasing regardless. Please fill us in on the impressions when you guys receive yours!


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## disgruntleddave

I hope some of you guys get yours soon. Can't wait for some impressions.
   
  I hope mine doesn't take as long as mid april before it ships from here in canada.


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> I hope some of you guys get yours soon. Can't wait for some impressions.
> 
> I hope mine doesn't take as long as mid april before it ships from here in canada.


 


   Garry told me 20-30 days ship time from China to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I assume your amp is en route as well, just making a stop in Canada first.


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## disgruntleddave

damn, that's way slower than I would have thought.
   
  Oh well. It'll get here when it gets here, I suppose. Since I live in Canada, mine is indeed going to him first (edmonton?) then here (toronto-ish)


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> damn, that's way slower than I would have thought.
> 
> Oh well. It'll get here when it gets here, I suppose. Since I live in Canada, mine is indeed going to him first (edmonton?) then here (toronto-ish)


 


 I thought I posted this earlier... my amp has arrived in the States:
   
  Inbound Into Customs
  Inbound International Arrival, March 24, 2011, 11:03 am, ISC LOS ANGELES CA (USPS)


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## popa

Congrats. Let us all know how it looks and sounds when you get.


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## jeust0999

Yes, please post some pictures and give us an impression. Very good choice, thanks.


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## disgruntleddave

Anyone expecting shipments in the next couple days?


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## popa

I received mine today. Doing a 24hr bun-in right now. Sure looks  good. Tubes sure make the new paint smell. Hope the smell goes away soon. Already ordered other tubes to swap.Will get back to give my impressions of Garry's latest.


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## disgruntleddave

Cool...


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## Greeni

The amp arrived.
   
  The piece has a subtantial feel to it not common at this price level. The volume knob and on/off switch looks and feels like from products from higher classes. One minor blemish has to do with fittings, there is a small bump with the chasis intersecting the back panel, looks like caused by trying to house the oversized transformer within the limited space of the chassis, but I am mentioning this just for being complete. Just don't expect standards from Italy furnishing. Overall it is well built. Garry needs to make sure the Chinese workers in your factory are paid adequate wages.
   
  Now this is my first tubed headphone amp and it happens to hum with the phones I have on hand. It was most noticable with the Sony MDR 900ST, followed by Grado RS2i. It was noticable with volume turned all the way down and also during quiet passages. With the Sony MDR 7506 the noise floor was reduced to a neligible level and it seems also that the amp sound tightest with the 7506. This leads me to suspect that the amp works best with more demanding / lower impedence loads but none of my phones on hand are these. And the amp apparantly has quite some drive to handle these loads.
   
  I would be interested in the tube rolling experience of others and if that would lower the noise floor.Because of the hum issue with the particular phones I have on hand, my listening was done with a small pair of efficient bookshelf speakers. No complaints, the amp has a sweet sound and effervescent quality you expect from a good tube amp.


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## disgruntleddave

I always thought that a higher impedance meant it's more demanding, power wise...


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## jeust0999

More impressions, please. I'm interested in how *syrupy* or *tubey* this amp is.


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## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





greeni said:


> The amp arrived.
> 
> The piece has a subtantial feel to it not common at this price level. The volume knob and on/off switch looks and feels like from products from higher classes. One minor blemish has to do with fittings, there is a small bump with the chasis intersecting the back panel, looks like caused by trying to house the oversized transformer within the limited space of the chassis, but I am mentioning this just for being complete. Just don't expect standards from Italy furnishing. Overall it is well built. Garry needs to make sure the Chinese workers in your factory are paid adequate wages.
> 
> ...


 

 I can't speak for the tubes in these amps, but there are tubes like the 6AS7 that sometimes take 30hours to get rid of the hum.
  As this is only your first day using the amp, I would just burn it in some more and see what happens. Skylab's the expert, most likely he will confirm what I said or correct me  I wouldn't worry just yet if this is tube related


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## Skylab

The 6SJ7 is one of the worst tubes in the world in terms of needing break in. New 6SJ7's when used in the Darkvoice 337 would hum LOUDLY for 12-24 hours before becoming quiet.


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## Rockyhill

The MK2 has arived in Maine. Very impressed with shipping time!
   
  Tubes plugged in, speakers connected, sources connected. Power cord plugged in. Turned power ON. Immediate hum through Nova 8's (with "VL mod" see AK thread). Low level, but noticeable. Waited 5 minutes before turning up volume and starting source.
   
  First song played was "Come Together."  Bass unbeliveable. Mids substantial and clear. Highs satisfactory (a trait of these speakers... for another day and thread). Initial impression: this only cost $250!? Holy *&^$% Batman, what will it sound like with tubes burned in, better tubes and better speakers?!


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## KuKuBuKu

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> I always thought that a higher impedance meant it's more demanding, power wise...


 

 nope. not at all. Look at speakers. they are only 4-8 ohms, but require a hell of a lot more power. More impedance just means more voltage swing, not more power. lots of people get the impression that high impedance phones are hard to drive because lots of hard to drive headphones just happen to have high impedance.


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## disgruntleddave

Would you describe the HD600s at 300 ohms as hard to drive?
   
  I know they aren't hard compared to something like the akg 70xs, apparently..


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## d8n0g

Could someone in detail explain to me ho to connect this to my pc-that's my main muzac source....I would really appreciate it!!


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## disgruntleddave

Do you have a DAC? Specifically a USB DAC?
   
  If not, then you'd basically be plugging it in to another amplifier that's a lot crappier than this one - your PC's sound card. In this case you'd need a single stereo jack to separate L/R (white and red) cables, and plug it in that way.


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## blackzarg

More Pictures Moar Pictures!!


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





blackzarg said:


> More Pictures Moar Pictures!!


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## moodyrn

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> I always thought that a higher impedance meant it's more demanding, power wise...


 

 What determine if a headphone is hard to drive or not is it's sensitivity, not impedance. Now a lot of amps do struggle with high impedance headphones because some amps for example, a lot of solid state amps, might not supply the necessary power in a high impedance load. With typical ss designs as the impedance increase, the power decrease. Speaking hypothetically, if it puts out 800mw at 32ohm, it might output something like 150mw at 600ohms. Other designs, like typical otl tube amps, the power actually increase as the ohm load increase. so at 600ohms, it might output 800mw, but output significantly less at 32ohms.


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## popa

This what Garry says of the 6J8p tube--

  The little hum is mainly coming from the brand new 6J8P. It could become smaller after 200 hours. It is more noticeable on <32ohm headphones. It is hardly noticeable on 60-300ohm headphones. If you really care about the little hum, you can get a pair of the RCA/Sylvania 6SJ7, 5693 or 6SD7 from eBay. They have less noise and hum. The Sylvania 6SD7 sounds very good to me. It opens up the high extension significantly, but it might not suitable for bright headphones.
   
  Another method to minimize the hum is to switch the cold and hot AC wires in the power cord. If it becomes smaller, you get the right phase.   ____I did look at Ebay but I ordered mine thru surplus sales of Nebraska. They have alot tubes.

 As far fit and finish I am more than satisfied.


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## popa

Quote: 





popa said:


> This what Garry says of the 6J8p tube--
> "
> The little hum is mainly coming from the brand new 6J8P. It could become smaller after 200 hours. It is more noticeable on <32ohm headphones. It is hardly noticeable on 60-300ohm headphones. If you really care about the little hum, you can get a pair of the RCA/Sylvania 6SJ7, 5693 or 6SD7 from eBay. They have less noise and hum. The Sylvania 6SD7 sounds very good to me. It opens up the high extension significantly, but it might not suitable for bright headphones.
> 
> ...


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## Rockyhill

Quote: 





popa said:


>


 
  Which one did you order? I'm considering Sylvania 6SD7 as my speakers could use a little high end boost. Low end and mids are excellent.


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## disgruntleddave

Good to know.
   
  Any impressions with headphones?
  I've got HD600s which are beckoning to be driven from a proper amp...


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## popa

...
  I have 2 6SD7 brand name PHILCO. I have also got 2 6SK7 tubes brand name KEN-RAD.The 6SK7 are JAN tubes accepted in 1943.They are also metal cans

 I haven't tried them yet.I am really curios if they make a difference.


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## carebebear777

very pretty amp for $250, that's for sure.


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## mrarroyo

$250 and it will do speaker as well as headphone. The form factor is different, now it is deeper and narrower.


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## 3Pillars

I wonder if the SQ from the headphone out will be equal to the speaker outs.


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## popa

My HD570s sound real good. My HD595 and ATH-M50s do not sound as good. The last two are low ohm sets. I do think higher ohm set will far much better.
  
  Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> Good to know.
> 
> Any impressions with headphones?
> I've got HD600s which are beckoning to be driven from a proper amp...


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## Monday

Hi all.  I'm new here to the form.  I've been trying to take in the copious amounts of information that exists on Head-Fi - wow. 
   
  Some of this lead to finding the MP mkII which I am very interested in.  I like the idea of being able to drive speakers as well,  as that gives me an upgrade path [the spkr/headphone amp can be moved to the office and be replaced by the next thing on my home system]. 
   
  I am curious how this will stack up against the MingDa which many seem to like.  And, as others, I am VERY interested in how headphones sound through it. Also anxious to hear how the hum issues work out - apparently the first version was pretty quiet.


----------



## eclein

Hey guys....I have a MP-301 original and friggin love it. I bought it for cans only but as an avid collector/gatherer/horde of JBL's I had to hook it up to some JBL ND310II and they are still playing sweet music with the MP 301 powering it.
                     
  JBL ND310II

   
    then the 4312A Control Monitors

   
   
   ...and my personal favs S38II's

  the synergy with these is perfect....so anyway I plugged in some headphones- modded Grado SR60's and SR125's, then I had to sit because I was listening to my ideal amp, small room, no one else to bother with, $250-"That must mean I'm dead and in heaven" nope, just Musical Paradise..drum roll, splash!!!!!
   I hang mostly on audiocircle and the guy there told me to get TUNG SOL  -6V6GT  like $35 shipped for a matched pair....I'm saving for MK2, I'm disabled and pretty much can't walk let alone play drums again....scary stuff but the music is nice!!!


----------



## jeust0999

haha, that was a pretty funny joke. Nice one.


----------



## Rockyhill

Anyone else get their MK2 yet?
   
  Popa, have you tried the PHILCO 6SD7 yet?


----------



## jeust0999

Nice pictures Rocky.
   
  To the people who have this new amp....do you guys find it lush and syrupy? I'm looking for a tubey amp. Thanks.


----------



## Monday

Does anyone know the dimensions on this unit? The website is blank last time I checked.


----------



## popa

The dimension of the amp itself is about 17cm w x 30cm deep and 25c high.


----------



## Monday

thanks popa.  A little bigger than it looks. But it still looks nice.
   
  I won't pester you for any more reconnaissance on the SQ.


----------



## popa

Yes I have. And the pair sounded real smooth.I did like the sound they helped to add.I am not sure that is the right way to say it. They we're worth what I paid for them.They were same brand but not matched. I tried the 6SK7's cans for awhile but I did not leave in long enough to burn-in. Right now my tube sets are SED 6L6gc "winged c" and 6SK7GT. The GT we're a little harder to find.For some reason they sure sound better than the cans.Cans weren't bad I just preferred the GTs. Out of the pre tubes I think I like these the most. I do want to try some 6L6 black cans if I can find for the right price. I am not good at reviews but so far I am really enjoying this new creation from Garry.


----------



## popa

Quote: 





monday said:


> thanks popa.  A little bigger than it looks. But it still looks nice.
> 
> I won't pester you for any more reconnaissance on the SQ.


 

 I am new at this posting thing. Stupid? What does SQ mean.


----------



## estreeter

SQ = sound quality. The problem is that no two Head-Fiers ever seem to agree on exactly what constitutes 'fantastic SQ'


----------



## popa

Boy do I feel stupid. Thanks for answeing
  
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> SQ = sound quality. The problem is that no two Head-Fiers ever seem to agree on exactly what constitutes 'fantastic SQ'


----------



## Monday

popa- 
   
  Greetings from a fellow Head-Fi newbie.
   
  Sorry about that - I was just trying to be hip (don't feel stupid - I think I cogitated on that acronym for a while before I got it - hence my desire to use it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 
   
  As far as reviewing goes I appreciate the feedback you've given thus far - especially on a new product.  I am also new here but feel intimidated and impressed [and infinitely appreciative] of the reviews that some folks do here.
   
  I agree with estreeter that sound quality is in the ear of the beholder.  But with that said I like reading what other people hear  - even though I might not hear it quite the same way. And some things we hear are not as subjective, like noise or clipping.


----------



## Rockyhill

I've got 2 Tung-Sol and 2 RCA 6SD7GT coming home to roll.  Stay tuned.


----------



## Raul

Got mine yesterday (in Italy). I listened to it for about an hour with the stock tubes and my Dynaco A25s (no time to listen to it with headphones yet). Nice sound, but a bit thin/dry. Then I replaced the stock tubes with what I had at hand: a pair of matched russian 6P3S-E and a pair of vintage RCA 6SJ7. Wow! What a change, the sound became much fuller and richer, sweeter, voices are very real, to me it's another amp. According to Garry the 6P3S-E aren't a worth upgrade because they are not better than the Guiguang/Shuguang 6P3P coming with the amp, but my ears don't agree with him.
  In any case, with good tubes, it's really a damn good little amp that can become some kind of giant killer. For the price I think it's really hard to beat.


----------



## Skylab

Much of the change might have been due to the RCA 6SJ7, though. The Chinese 6SJ7 tubes are pretty bad sounding IMO.


----------



## eclein

I posted earlier about having the first edition which I love and still use everyday, well I got awesome news this morning, a friend has purchased this latest edition and given it to me as a gift- I was all smiles ear to ear so whats the general consensus, do we have a giant killer here on the loose??
  As with the first edition the stock tubes gotta go first thing before we really hear it, does that hold true here?? This has a different tube compliment  than the first so which tubes do I swap out first--on a budget here, I guess we all are for that matter, I'm new to tubes and the MP 301 was my first tube amp and I really don't know topology or the way these are designed very well, or tubes for that matter but I do know they sound good.
  Swap out the 6SJ7's first??
  or the others?
   
  Are the 6SJ7's the pre-amp tubes??
  Thanks in advance...Ed


----------



## BmWr75

Yes, the 6sj7s are the preamp tubes.  I'd roll them first.  Driver tubes usually have a larger impact on sound than power tubes (the EL34s).


----------



## Skylab

Not just that, but good EL34's are very expensive, and good 6SJ7GT's are very cheap.  Get the GT (glass envelope) ones, though, they sound better than the metal-can ones IMO, with the possible exception of the RCA 5693.


----------



## eclein

So like suggest some if you don't mind, I have a $35 credit at The Tube Store and the amp was sent via airmail-China Post and got turned around and sent back for some odd reason but Garry is shipping me a unit on the 15th so if I time it right, I could have tubes to roll immediately...the fun begins. So toss out a couple brands and the size so I can just copy and paste it to an email to Jon at the Tube Store...thanks guys.


----------



## Skylab

The best are the mesh-shield Tung Sol 6SJ7GT. Next are the Sylvania VT-116A, followed by the Sylvania 6SJ7WGT. The Raytheon Bantal 6SJ7GT are also very, very good.


----------



## eclein

Thanks Skylab!!!!!!


----------



## eclein

Is there like a tube guide/tube size guide somewhere online so I can learn about sizes..like the closest Tung Sol I see is a 6*SL*7GT not a 6SJ7GT....they won't work correct or will they?? Thats why I ask about some type of tube guide for dummies....


----------



## Skylab

Not really. You should assume that you CANNOT substitute one tube type for another unless someone you trust really well has said you can. the 6SL7 is nothing at all like a 6SJ7, and cannot be used in the MP-301 MkII.


----------



## eclein

Skylab- Thanks, I'll let the vendor of the tubes point me toward the best replacements, I sent them an email with the ones you suggested as my top picks, I appreciate your time helping me out.
   
   
  So for folks that have had these for a few days how do they sound??


----------



## Greeni

I compared the MP301 with the KICAS Caliente, the now reduced price of which makes the two comparably priced.
   
  MP 301 : Like Raul I found the sound to be a tad thin, actually a little hollow, at the beginning but it will become fuller over time with use. A slight trace of sweetness with everything it plays, but timbre tend to get homogenized. Still I prefer this to a colorless and glassy tone. Pick up slightly more subtle dynamic shadings - what tubes are good at, which gives a more lively presentation. Slightly more spacing between instruments within the headstage. A wider, bolder dynamic swing. More powerful. Hums with efficient phones. Runs hot.
   
  KICAS : Blacker background. Denser imaging with better delineation of edges of instrument, which some would prefer as more solid and realistic presentation. More coherent, details and dynamics are better integrated. Slightly less spacing between instruments within the headstage but what is there is more solid - the MP301 seem ever slightly more diffused in comparison. Overall not as sweet but more tonal colors and variations here. Dynamic swing not as wild but more calm and collected. Slient with efficient phones. Runs very mildly hot and environmentally friendly. More susceptible to quality footers under the chasis.
   
  Those impressions are made with stock power cords and tubes.


----------



## Raul

Thanks Greeni,
  try to replace the 301 tubes with better ones, at least the mediocre chinese 6J8P with a good vintage 6SJ7 and give it another listening, just to see if you confirm my impression of a much better sounding amp (investing less than $20 for all 4 tubes!).


----------



## Rockyhill

Tung-Sol 6SD7GT received today. Only been running a few hours but there is a significant improvement in upper end response. As Greeni points out, this amp runs hot. Seems a little warmer with these old timers.


----------



## jeust0999

Wow, thanks so much for those impressions. I have the KICAS Caliente also, so this was very insightful.


----------



## Rockyhill

I'm new to the tube world (well, I was born in the 50's so I grew up with tubes…) at least from an audio perspective. This amp runs *hot*. Now I know the tubes themselves will be hot as that is how they function. But the transformer can is also very hot, even if volume is at zero. Is this expected behavior for a tube amp? It seems a little warmer after I removed the stock 6J8P for the 6SD7. The filaments on the 6P3P appear slightly brighter. Maybe I'm imagining this or perhaps it's the weather (was near 70 yesterday, rather than 40's) ?!
   
  I added 1/2" rubber feet under the existing feet to get better circulation.
   
  Would appreciate feedback for this tube noob.


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> I'm new to the tube world (well, I was born in the 50's so I grew up with tubes…) at least from an audio perspective. This amp runs *hot*. Now I know the tubes themselves will be hot as that is how they function. But the transformer can is also very hot, even if volume is at zero. Is this expected behavior for a tube amp? It seems a little warmer after I removed the stock 6J8P for the 6SD7. The filaments on the 6P3P appear slightly brighter. Maybe I'm imagining this or perhaps it's the weather (was near 70 yesterday, rather than 40's) ?!
> 
> I added 1/2" rubber feet under the existing feet to get better circulation.
> 
> Would appreciate feedback for this tube noob.


 


  Mine doesn't run so hot, I am using it at 220V (as I'm in Italy)


----------



## Monday

Thanks for everyone's input - this thread should get interesting as these units start shipping.
   
  For those who have rolled their tubes has it addressed some of the hum that several initially mentioned?
   
  Also,  who is a good source for the Tung-Sol 6SD7GT  - I also am new at this tube rolling thing and can't seem to find them online [maybe I am not searching for it properly????]
   
  Greeni/Raul - what headphones are you using? 
   
   
  Thanks all.


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





monday said:


> Thanks for everyone's input - this thread should get interesting as these units start shipping.
> 
> For those who have rolled their tubes has it addressed some of the hum that several initially mentioned?
> 
> ...


 

 I haven't heard any hum in mine (I don't use the stock tubes) but I listened to it only with speakers (dynaco a25). I didn't try any headphone yet, I was listening to it while working at the restoration of a vintage tube amp. I will try it with headphones tomorrow, but I have only rather cheap headphones (Re0, SoundMagic PL30, Xears Bullet XB120Pro, Visang R02, Superlux 668B, Superlux 681).


----------



## Rockyhill

Ran with the Tung-Sol 6SD7GT for a few days. Much improved highs but bass has dropped off from the stock 6JSP. Plugged in the RCA 6SD7GT. Hum is overwhelming. It's even noticable during playback, which is disappointing. However, the sound is incredible. Full bass and high frequencies galore. What can I expect for hum reduction after burning in?


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





monday said:


> Thanks for everyone's input - this thread should get interesting as these units start shipping.
> 
> For those who have rolled their tubes has it addressed some of the hum that several initially mentioned?
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Monday
   
  I am using mainly the Sony MDR 7506 with the amp which I found hum least and sound tightest. The other phones I have on hand are more expensive than 7506 but they are all very efficient and they hum with the amp, plus they do not sound as tight.
   
  I found that the hum seem to have been reduced after some use. It is taking a longer time for run-in because the amp runs hot and I am weary of letting it run-in un-attended. You certainly cannot file a claim in China with such hazards. Also my Freudian superego is taking a toll on me and making me feel guilty of being not environmentally friendly in generating those fleeting watts.


----------



## Skylab

6SJ7 tubes can hum like beasts at first, if they are true NOS. Sometimes takes 20+ hours to quiet down completely, and during the first 10 hours the hum/buzz can be so bad it's basically unlistenable. Strange behavior - it's the only tube I know that behaves this way. But it was pretty consistent for me in using a lot of different 6SJ7's in the Darkvoice 337.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





greeni said:


> Hi Monday
> 
> I am using mainly the Sony MDR 7506 with the amp which I found hum least and sound tightest. The other phones I have on hand are more expensive than 7506 but they are all very efficient and they hum with the amp, plus they do not sound as tight.
> 
> I found that the hum seem to have been reduced after some use. It is taking a longer time for run-in because the amp runs hot and I am weary of letting it run-in un-attended. You certainly cannot file a claim in China with such hazards. Also my Freudian superego is taking a toll on me and making me feel guilty of being not environmentally friendly in generating those fleeting watts.


 

 Greeni - what tubes are you using?
   
  I rationalize keeping the amp on (while I'm at home) by treating it as a heat source!
   
  Any comments on my prior post about the RCA 6SD7GT with significant hum? Only been running a few hours so I'm hoping that will diminish with use. Also, these RCA are very microphonic. If I tap the amp, I can hear that through the speakers. Too bad because they sound the best out of what I've used (stock and Tung-Sol).


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 6SJ7 tubes can hum like beasts at first, if they are true NOS. Sometimes takes 20+ hours to quiet down completely, and during the first 10 hours the hum/buzz can be so bad it's basically unlistenable. Strange behavior - it's the only tube I know that behaves this way. But it was pretty consistent for me in using a lot of different 6SJ7's in the Darkvoice 337.


 

 As my RCA 6SJ7 aren't NOS, but used, maybe this is the reason I don't hear any hum in mine.


----------



## Rockyhill

Mine are definitely NOS. The tube paper sleeve says something like "This package used for wartime purposes"


----------



## Monday

"can hum like beasts"
   
  don't know why that line conjures such visual imagery?  - maybe too much Maurice Sendak as a child.  But it is nice to know that is normal and tones down after burn-in.  Thanks Skylab - and others for sharing.
   
  I think I'm going to go ahead and try this little guy - the first one seemed to be well received and the mkii sounds like it can only be better [at least on paper - which I know is a risk].  But hey at 250 it seems worth the experiment.
   
  Keep on burnin' in those tubes!!


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Greeni - what tubes are you using?
> 
> I rationalize keeping the amp on (while I'm at home) by treating it as a heat source!
> 
> Any comments on my prior post about the RCA 6SD7GT with significant hum? Only been running a few hours so I'm hoping that will diminish with use. Also, these RCA are very microphonic. If I tap the amp, I can hear that through the speakers. Too bad because they sound the best out of what I've used (stock and Tung-Sol).


 

 Rockyhill
   
  Am still using the stock tubes.  Have a very closely matched pair of Tung Sol 6SJ7 coming, brought for $40 over ebay. Your comment makes me wonder if I should have gotten the RCA instead. What exactly did you found the RCA  better than Tung-Sol ?
   
  Yeah I guess it would be nice to lay your hands over the transformer in Winter times and listening to Christmas songs.
   
  If microphonic is the issue, drop a note to Herbie audio and see if their ultrasonic tuble dampers could help.
   
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm
   
  This discussion is fast turning into a tube rolling thread.
   
  It always happen like that. Just when you are telling your wife how good you are at buying a China amp for $250 and not the other expensive amp, there comes the inevitable Tung-Sol, then RCA, tube dampers, and may be power cords...and before long you realised that the spending is much more than you budgeted.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





greeni said:


> Rockyhill
> 
> Am still using the stock tubes.  Have a very closely matched pair of Tung Sol 6SJ7 coming, brought for $40 over ebay. Your comment makes me wonder if I should have gotten the RCA instead. What exactly did you found the RCA  better than Tung-Sol ?
> 
> ...


 

 The Tung-Sol are a little lacking in low end, but that's only after a couple days of listening. YMMV. The RCA have more low and high end. Overall very nice response (hum not withstanding). I may try some dampers. I'm also interested in the re-issue 5881 output tubes. However, I should probably wait for more reviews. Also, my WAF may start to wane as I buy more stuff!


----------



## popa

Thought I would bring up that I tried the 6SJ7GT. I do not think they were NOS because they were very quite. They looked really old and the paper box fell apart in my hand. I have tried quite a few different power tubes and I tried one that was quite different. It was by REFLECTOR, a Russian tube of coarse. Any it was a 6P3S-E by Cryoset. It actually sounded okay the longer it burned in.The one thing that really surprised me was the amp cooled down. This amp runs awfully hot and with this pair it did not run hot. I have also put in my first MP-301 and sounds even better there. But it also runs cooler. Not sure why. >  Had to up date on Reflector tube. I would not recommend in original MP-301. It did sound pretty smooth and lows and highs were solid. But amp still got awful hot just seem to take longer. My worries came with the driver tubes seem to get hotter and brighter. Maybe nothing, but wanting everyone  to be aware.


----------



## aajohan

Probably a noob question (but hey, I am a noob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





):
  Can the MP-301 MK2 really drive any speakers properly with only 6.5 W from each channel? I can kinda see from this thread that it can, but how? And how loud could I expect it to drive a pair of smaller, moderately sensitive speakers? (not at all specific, I know - bear with me)


----------



## Skylab

It cannot drive ALL speakers properly.  It can drive MANY speakers to reasonable levels, yes.
   
  Speaker sensitivity ratings are generally given as a certain loudness level at 1 watt of power at 1 meter distance.  The latter part is important, as if you are farther than 1 M, you need more power - at 2M, you need DOUBLE the power to get the same volume level.
   
  So if a speaker will play at 90dB with 1 W at 1M, and you sit 3M from the speakers, you would need 4W for the same 90dB.  That already is not leaving the MP301 much headroom.
   
  So - drive sensitive speakers and don't listen too far away from them, and all will be well.  But don't expect the MP301 to crank out rock concert levels from across a large room.
   
   
   
  BTW: my review loaner is here, and I plan to listen to it this weekend.


----------



## Rockyhill

It drives my Realistic Nova 8's (of unknown sensitivity) just fine at low to medium sound levels. (my wife would say it's loud) Room is 16x18-ish.
   
  I _am_ still struggling with the burn-in hum of my RCA 6SD7GT. Seems slightly better after ~6 hours... Will run amp all weekend too.
   
  I look forward to your review, Skylab.


----------



## Canuck57

I'm anxious to hook the amp up to my vintage 1977 Klipsch Cornwalls, their sensitivity is 101dB @ 1watt/1meter
   
  http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/cornwall-ii-1-specifications/


----------



## maverickronin

Horns give your pretty crazy efficiency.  Some La Scalas or Klipschorns will probably rock the whole house from one of these.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Horns give your pretty crazy efficiency.  Some La Scalas or Klipschorns will probably rock the whole house from one of these.


 

 For sure, when I had La Scalas, I tired them with a low powered T-amp & the combination was magical!


----------



## maverickronin

I wish I had the room and lack of neighbors I'd need to use either of them...


----------



## Canuck57

Just remembered, I picked up a pair of Decware speakers recently, they might be a good match for the MP 301
   
  http://www.decware.com/newsite/DM945.html


----------



## eclein

I gotta vent...
   A friend bought me a MP301 MK2 because he knows how much I dig my MP301 and I've had just crappy health problems and end up unable to walk anymore without a walker, wheelchair assist etc....(I'm not whining about it just giving some background) so he hooked me up and they shipped me an amp like two weeks ago by air and for whatever reason it got turned around and sent back to the factory so I was told the amp would ship today, now I just found out the 20th or 21st....I'm so bummed, I'm like a kid when it comes to this stuff, like at 53 its not uncommon for me to be hanging by the mailbox when goodness is due to be delivered there...LOL...so I'm like sooooo bummed!!!
   AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
   Thanks for letting me vent


----------



## BmWr75

I emailed Gary.  The amps have entered Canada and should start shipping next week.


----------



## BmWr75

Skylab,
   
  Any initial impressions on the MKII?
   
  Scott


----------



## Skylab

Hi Scott,

Initial impressions are that it sounds much better than it has any right to for the money, and for headphones is VERY powerful. 

I have not been able to get the current pair of tubes to be totally hum free, though. One more day of trying and then I will try a new set.


----------



## BmWr75

Are you running the stock tubes?  Or have you rolled in some vintage tubes?


----------



## Canuck57

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Are you running the stock tubes?  Or have you rolled in some vintage tubes?


 

 Has Skylab rolled the tubes? .... Is the Pope Catholic?


----------



## Rockyhill

I'm looking forward to hearing feedback on tube rolling.
   
  I've tried:
   
  RCA 6SD7GT: great sound, but significant hum has persisted even after 30+ hours of burn-in.
  Tung-Sol 6SD7GT: better than stock but not as good as the RCA.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Are you running the stock tubes?  Or have you rolled in some vintage tubes?


 
   
  Quote: 





canuck57 said:


> Has Skylab rolled the tubes? .... Is the Pope Catholic?


   
  Yeah, indeed.  Never even tried the stock tubes.  But the first pair of Tung-Sol 6SJ7GT's I put in, one would never quiet down.  I just put a different set in, and all is well.  I'm using those, and Mullard (UK) EL34's.  I want my review to focus on how good the amp can be, not how it sounds with cheap Chinese tubes


----------



## disgruntleddave

I emailed gary about shipping times. They're currently moving from vancouver to edmonton. Shipping is expected on thursday or friday. Hopefully thursday, considering friday is a holiday I think.


----------



## Skylab

loops wrong thread will edit later.


----------



## JIGF

subscribed


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Initial impressions are that it sounds much better than it has any right to for the money, and for headphones is VERY powerful.


 

 I love that line, not often one can say it with such authority.  I think the tubes your using cost more than the amplifier does, all said and done your probably looking at like 5-600 ish (maybe more depends on where you get the tubes from i guess)?  Hows it fair against other amps in that price range (after you account for the tubes)?


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I love that line, not often one can say it with such authority.  I think the tubes your using cost more than the amplifier does, all said and done your probably looking at like 5-600 ish (maybe more depends on where you get the tubes from i guess)?  Hows it fair against other amps in that price range (after you account for the tubes)?


 

 $500 in tubes? Naahh, I surely am not an audiophile but I am very happy with my less than $20 tube set replacement. Two well used RCA 6SJ7 (so no hum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and two russian 6P3S-E. I think you cannot get a better bang for the buck!


----------



## LiqTenExp

I think he means 500-600 including the purchase price of the amp and some NOS tubes Raul


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> I think he means 500-600 including the purchase price of the amp and some NOS tubes Raul


 


  If you keep a look out on ebay, you can get a decent set for $50 or so. That keeps the total to under $350.


----------



## LiqTenExp

yeah but I'm thinking he's going big time NOS not just "decent", lol


----------



## Skylab

Ironically the Mullard made but Amperex branded EL34's I am using were pulled from a Dynaco Stereo 70 that was on it's way to the scrap heap, and cost me nothing  This is an advantage to owning a tube tester. I did pay $24 for these 6SJ7GT's, but that was a few years ago when they were cheaper. These tubes would cost about $150 total now.

I have not vanquished that last little bit of hum yet, though. I have a pair of NOS TungSol 6L6WGB's on the way ($60). Hoping that maybe it's my old EL34's. Still the sound is really quite good as it is...more later.


----------



## Wedge

I was actually referring specifically to the tubes that Skylab is using, as he has chimed in about $150, so $400 ish, I was curious to how it sounds to other amps in that range if similarly priced after tube costs.  Sorry to hear your RCAs are still humming after 30+ hours, good luck Rob.


----------



## Skylab

I'm not sure where the hum is from.  I've only tried two pairs of Tung-Sol 6SJ7GT (no RCA).  I will try the Tung-Sol 6L6 to eliminate the old Mullard EL34's in the equation before moving to some Sylvania 6SJ7WGT.
   
  The hum is quiet enough now with the LCD-2 that you cannot hear it with music playing.  Same with the Beyer T1.  With the Ultrasone Edition 8, however, it's very noticeable.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Sorry to hear your RCAs are still humming after 30+ hours, good luck Rob.


 


 I put the Tung-Sol 6SD7GT back in for a break from the hum. Should I try the RCA again for another 20 hours or so? I really like their sound, it's just the damn hum!
   
  Or should I try some 6SJ7GT? Maybe I'll be patient and wait for these amps to land in others homes to see what they find. Yeah, right.
   
  Also, Raul is using 6P3S-E. Is that a legit 6L6 replacement? I'm new to tubes and the varieties/equivilents are somewhat confusing.


----------



## Wedge

Oop I got ppls tubes crossed reading in a rush. I would be curious to see where this places in your ranking.


----------



## Skylab

Rockyhill, I would try some 6SJ7GT's, since that is the "default" tube for this amp.  That's why I am going to switch to 6L6's.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Rockyhill, I would try some 6SJ7GT's, since that is the "default" tube for this amp.  That's why I am going to switch to 6L6's.


 


 Thank you sir. I may also try the 6L6.


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Also, Raul is using 6P3S-E. Is that a legit 6L6 replacement? I'm new to tubes and the varieties/equivilents are somewhat confusing.


 

 Yes the 6P3S-E is a direct replacement for the stock 6P3P, confirmed to me by Garry himself.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





raul said:


> Yes the 6P3S-E is a direct replacement for the stock 6P3P, confirmed to me by Garry himself.


 

  

 Thanks Raul. You are happy with the well-conditioned 6SJ7 's and 6P3S-E? What do you use for speakers?
   
  Those who have ordered this amp but yet to receive it are probably going crazy. I know I would be, if not for the minor snafu when my order was placed (aka overcharge for shipping) which led to my direct shipment from China.


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Thanks Raul. You are happy with the well-conditioned 6SJ7 's and 6P3S-E? What do you use for speakers?


 

 Yes, I am very happy with this amp and these tubes, even though many says that a non-metal 6SJ7 sounds better. I will look for some in the near future. I am listening to it with my Dynaco A25 for now. My other speakers are Spendor BC1 and a nice pair of kit built reso speakers with Saba greencones coming from 50's german radios.
  I haven't high quality headphones, only Superlux 668B and 681. Plus some "cheap" iem (Re0, X-ears Bullet, Visang R02, SoundMagic PL-30, Kanen km-92)


----------



## Rockyhill

6SJ7 GT on order. Hoping the hum is gone and the sweet sound I had with the RCA 6SD7GT (or better) returns.
   
  Waiting on power tube rolling by others before I try that.


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ironically the Mullard made but Amperex branded EL34's I am using were pulled from a Dynaco Stereo 70 that was on it's way to the scrap heap, and cost me nothing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Got a pair of very closely matched Tung-Sol 6SJ7. Swapping in these the hum was immediately reduced. Granted it still hum a little with Grado and efficient phones alike but not as terrible as the stock tubes.
   
  Sonically the new tubes got the usually audiophile qualities correct, most notably a blacker blackground, tighter, more linear, but ironically the amp with the new tubes lost some of its sweet tone and leaner. As with all things there is trade off, and one which probably most willing to take.
   
  May try rolling the power tubes someday. Actually is there a concensus that EL34s are generally considered to be better sounding than 6L6 ? There are some Mullard re-issue such as those from Groove tubes that are not too expensive. Are these good? I guess it may not be worthwhile to roll some expensive tubes and make this a 500-600ish amp. When you get to that price basket there are some really good contenders such as Mapletree EAR+HD. It lost the purpose of a budget amp.


----------



## Monday

Looks like mine is on its way from Canada to Seattle!
  Anxious and a little nervous since the jury might still be out on this little amp.
  It appears that I'll need to be ordering some tubes soon.


----------



## Rockyhill

6SJ7GT received and running. Very pleasant sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A little hum and microphonics, but quite tolerable and I'm hopeful will diminish with time.
   
  These are National Union, which I was told were made by Sylvania. Can anyone comment on that assertion?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> 6SJ7GT received and running. Very pleasant sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Need pics for that 
   
  I have ordered a pair of 6SK7GT's, which Garry from Musical Paradise suggested might have less hum than the 6SJ7GT.  I still have just a bit more hum with headphones even with the Sylvania's than I really find acceptable, although otherwise the sound is excellent.
   
  The MP301mkII is really designed as a speaker amp, though, so I will be testing it that way as well.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Need pics for that
> 
> I have ordered a pair of 6SK7GT's, which Garry from Musical Paradise suggested might have less hum than the 6SJ7GT.  I still have just a bit more hum with headphones even with the Sylvania's than I really find acceptable, although otherwise the sound is excellent.
> 
> The MP301mkII is really designed as a speaker amp, though, so I will be testing it that way as well.


 

 Thanks Skylab. I'll post pics tonight.
   
  I know we're 'early adopters' with this new model, but I wish MP had posted more information about suggested tube rolling. I feel like I'm a guinea pig...


----------



## Monday

Skylab-
   
  What brand 6SK7GT did you order and from where - if I might ask?
   
  Also, did the addition of the 6L6WGB help the hum [you postulated that the old EL34 were causing some of this]?
   
  Have you tried the 6P3S-E. Raul seems to be the only one not experiencing hum and he is using these I think - wondered if you - or anyone else - had a take on it
   
  General caveat:
  I'm a tubey noob so I'll ask for forgiveness in advance if any of my questions are stupid.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I bought JAN-Sylvania 6SK7WGT.  Got them on EBay from a tube seller I have had good luck with (I have a tube tester, too, so buying tubes on eBay isn't really a problem for me).
   
  The 6L6WGB did not really do much to reduce the hum.  That's why I have decided to try the 6SK7.  The hum currently is barely noticeable with 600 ohm Beyers (but the MP301mkII is not really a good choice for 600 ohm Beyers).  It's a little too audible with the LCD-2.  It's totally unacceptable with the Edition 8.


----------



## grokit

I am interested in how this does with speakers, as well as the K1000/HE-6 earspeakers out of the speaker taps.


----------



## Skylab

I was told by Garry from Musical Paradise NOT to connect the HE-6 to the speaker taps of the MP301 Mk2.  He said this could cause output transformer damage, since the transformers are not designed for such high impedances.  So I will not be trying that.


----------



## eclein

Mine is on its way today-Edmonton now coming to Allentown, PA.......I'm pumped.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I talked to Garry today and told him I use this as my main rig amp (I have a small mancave) and he said it was designed that way and he told me it should do better than my first edition which did a fabulous job. I'm getting some Mullard EL34's???? Toob newb here also..so I'll be checking its progress a hundred times a day....LOL....I'm like a kid on Christmas with this stuff and this amp was a gift to me from a very kind gentleman in Utah.  *  ITS COMING BABY!!!!!*


----------



## Rockyhill

Originally Posted by *Rockyhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

  
  6SJ7GT received and running. Very pleasant sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A little hum and microphonics, but quite tolerable and I'm hopeful will diminish with time.
   
  These are National Union, which I was told were made by Sylvania. Can anyone comment on that assertion? 

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Need pics for that


 

 Here's a pic of the National Union 6SJ7GT [ aka Sylvania?]


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of those. Nice tubes. I have no reason to believe that National Union didn't make them. They could be Sylvania made, but National Union certainly made tubes.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was told by Garry from Musical Paradise NOT to connect the HE-6 to the speaker taps of the MP301 Mk2.  He said this could cause output transformer damage, since the transformers are not designed for such high impedances.  So I will not be trying that.


 


  Is this also applicable to the AKG K1000? I ask because I have thought of picking up this amp to drive them and an Stax Lambda Pro via an SRD7 energizer box.


----------



## grokit

Well the K1000 does have over twice the impedance as the HE-6 so I would think so.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I didn't ask him about the K1K but given the warning I got from him, I wouldn't buy it for use that way, no.


----------



## ETAHL

They should be out en mass is a few days. I am expecting mine in a couple of days.
  Can't wait to fire it up and take a peek under the hood. A few sets of tubes waiting for action.
  Anyone with photos of the guts to give me a head start? Maybe some mods to lower the noise, if it is a problem.


----------



## ETAHL

Woohoo! The MP-301 MK2 has landed!
   
  Fired it up with the stock tubes to see how well they perform. It is burning in with a pair of speakers. Sounds pretty good so far with the speakers.

   
   
  Here is a gut shot. A bit tight in there. A good built with decent parts. Dale resistors, WIMA, BC and Rubycon caps, etc.


----------



## Monday

SWEET!  Looks nice.


----------



## Gubretti

So I stumbled upon this, http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-6p13p-Tube-VERSTARKER-Headphone-Amplifier-/390305003408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adffdb790#ht_2111wt_1139 , they look similar and both have the same weight. Thoughts?


----------



## Gubretti

I wasn't sure if those had the same tubes, but then I found this one as well http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-AC-EL34-Tube-Amplifier-Headphone-Amplifier-/320684340427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_2113wt_1139 , who cloned who


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





gubretti said:


> I wasn't sure if those had the same tubes, but then I found this one as well http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-AC-EL34-Tube-Amplifier-Headphone-Amplifier-/320684340427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_2113wt_1139 , who cloned who


 


   Good question, the MK2 uses similar tubes and chassis is very similar.


----------



## eclein

I had a store credit at The Tube Store so they are sending me some Mullard EL34's, they don't have any of the other (6SJ ones) so I'll wait on them, I'm doing this backward...LOL....the great news is mine is out of customs and 1 state away just over the Canadien border....we'll see how long that takes.....pumped up in a big way!!!!


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





gubretti said:


> I wasn't sure if those had the same tubes, but then I found this one as well http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-AC-EL34-Tube-Amplifier-Headphone-Amplifier-/320684340427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_2113wt_1139 , who cloned who


 


  They indeed use the same tubes and look similar. However, that does not necessary mean they are clones. The guts could be quite different. The MP-301MK2 chassis is taller, and the bottom just barely clears the internal transforms. The circuit board inside is definitely a custom board with the Musical Paradise name etched on the PCB. Can't say which is better without listening to both.


----------



## ETAHL

After burning in the MP-301MK2 for 15 hours and listening to it for 4.
  It sounds very good with stock tube and the LCD-2. It has minimal hum with no input and becomes inaudible with music, even on very quiet passages. The LCD-2 is a good pairing with this amp. The stock tubes sound detailed and well balanced with the LCD-2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I an not in a rush to swap them out with my other sets of tubes. The gain may be a bit high, listen level is achieved at 9 o'clock of the volume control with the LCD-2.
   
  Hum with the stock tube is an issue with my more sensitive Grado SR80. Not a good listening experience with the hum in the way.
   
  Otherwise, we have a sonic winner and a great value with the right headphones. Could it be the tube version of the Matrix M-Stage? I find the MP-301MK2 just as fast and detail as my modded M-Stage, plus it is a bit more 'musical'.
   
  Sounds great with speakers also. Hum with speakers is almost non existent, you have to plant you ear next to the speakers to hear any.


----------



## willthong

Anybody know if these might be able to drive the AKG-K701s? I mean, very few amps can, so do these fit the bill?


----------



## eclein

Quote: 





etahl said:


> After burning in the MP-301MK2 for 15 hours and listening to it for 4.
> It sounds very good with stock tube and the* LCD-2.* It has minimal hum with no input and becomes inaudible with music, even on very quiet passages. The* LCD-2 *is a good pairing with this amp. The stock tubes sound detailed and well balanced with the* LCD-2. *
> 
> 
> ...


 
  ETAHL--Whats a LCD-2???


----------



## willthong

Quote: 





eclein said:


> ETAHL--Whats a LCD-2???


 
  It's a headphone. Google is your friend.
   
http://www.audeze.com/store/headphones.html


----------



## Skylab

And one of the most discussed headphones in head-fi history:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos


----------



## eclein

Oh...that LCD...LOL...sorry guys, brain dead today...Oncologist Appt. today and they always make me nervous and dumb momentarily.....oops...LOL


----------



## dgcrane

Today I join the owners club of the MP-301 mkII
   

   
  Maybe I am easy to please, but from the first turn on of the unit, I am pretty darn happy with how it sounds. I have a set of Sylvania 6sJ7s and Golden Lion 6L6's and I can agree with the humming with no volume, but assume it will fade after some burn in time.
   
  Darren C
  dgcrane


----------



## eclein

Congrats Darren!!!!


----------



## Skylab

Well, some good news. I finally have a totally silent amp! I put the stock driver tubes in, and there is almost no hum. This is using NOS Tung-Sol 6L6 output tubes. 

Its still a bit disappointing that three pairs of NOS 6SJ7 and one pair of 6SK7 tubes all hummed unacceptably. Also, one of the stock power tubes I received was bad - loose base, and was crackling badly when used. There was, however, no hum with the stock power tubes either, confirming my suspicion that the driver tubes are what are prone to hum problems.

 But with my NOS 6L6 tubes and the stock preamp tubes, it is working well and sounds good. Undaunted, I tried another pair of really nice NOS 6SJ7GTs - Raytheon Bantals. success! Another pair of totally quiet tubes. I'm not sure exactly why some of the NOS driver tubes I tried would be quiet - two of the pairs I used had been used in my DV337 when I had it and were completely silent in it. But at least the stock driver tubes work perfectly, and so do the Raytheons. And I do know that this type of sharp-cutoff pentode is prone to hum in audio applications. Too bad - it's a great sounding tube, but given the hum problems, it may not be an ideal choice in a low power audio amp.

Anyway, the amp is now sounding good, and I can finally get to the review!


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, how about performing an exorcism! Just kidding, I had hopes of getting one to drive the K1000 but it was not meant to be as some of you have posted.


----------



## disgruntleddave

Just got mine. As others have said, it runs hot. Very hot. This thing could keep me warm in the winter. One of the tubes is lighting up a lot more than the other (you can tell I'm a nub with this stuff), which seems weird. Very noticeable hum with the stock tubes, yet to buy anything else for it.
   
  My turntable either doesn't want to behave, or is a little messed up without the old amp it came with, so that's not working, and the speakers I have are showing themselves to be really crappy. Unfortunately connected to a zune right now, but at least it's working through my hd600s.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> Just got mine. As others have said, it runs hot. Very hot. This thing could keep me warm in the winter. One of the tubes is lighting up a lot more than the other (you can tell I'm a nub with this stuff), which seems weird. Very noticeable hum with the stock tubes, yet to buy anything else for it.
> 
> My turntable either doesn't want to behave, or is a little messed up without the old amp it came with, so that's not working, and the speakers I have are showing themselves to be really crappy. Unfortunately connected to a zune right now, but at least it's working through my hd600s.


 


 Here's some info from Garry H:
   
  "The power transformer should not be very hot when using 6L6 (6P3P). It should be around 50-55C when room temperature is about 25C. When using EL34, the transformer is hotter at about 60-65C. The heat is mainly from the tubes, the power transformer EI core. The rest is from the output transformers and high power resistors inside.
   
  When the amp is on, it consumes full 80W power. This is why it is called single ended class A. When music plays, it actually consumes less power.
   
  As long as your palm can touch the power transfomer for long period of time without drawing back your hand, it is fine"
  """""""
   
   
  I measured 39C on mine so I'm not concerned anymore. I've ordered some 6P3S-E power tubes, so the rolling continues.


----------



## ETAHL

I could not help to roll some tubes myself on the weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  The NOS Sylvania 6SD7GT tubes did not sound good with my LCD-2 and speakers. Very weak in the mid-range.
  On the other hand, a set of NOS GE 6SJ7 metal cans sounded great, slightly better than the stock tube.
  Honestly, most would be perfectly happy with the stock tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  More tubes arriving soon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  The power tubes are sitting pretty close to the black transformer case, it is like putting two 40W light bulbs an inch away. It is going to get toasty, but not too bad.


----------



## disgruntleddave

One of the tubes is glowing blue. I take it arcing is not a good thing.


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> One of the tubes is glowing blue. I take it arcing is not a good thing.


 
   
  If it is dark blue-violet glowing on the glass, it is normal. Very pretty. You can see some on the photo of my amp.


----------



## disgruntleddave

I'm pretty sure something's off. I'm getting sound that comes in and out in terms of quality. I haven't gotten this with any of the other components I'm using. It almost sounds as if there's a bad connection, but it occurs at pretty regular intervals.


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, some good news. I finally have a totally silent amp! I put the stock driver tubes in, and there is almost no hum. This is using NOS Tung-Sol 6L6 output tubes.
> 
> Its still a bit disappointing that three pairs of NOS 6SJ7 and one pair of 6SK7 tubes all hummed unacceptably. Also, one of the stock power tubes I received was bad - loose base, and was crackling badly when used. There was, however, no hum with the stock power tubes either, confirming my suspicion that the driver tubes are what are prone to hum problems.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the update.
   
  So if I understand correctly, the hum was with the driver tube (6SJ7) but somehow one can get around the issue by rolling a pair of power tubes (Tung-Sol 6L6). Did you have a chance to try other 6L6s other than Tung-Sol and get similiar positive result ?
   
  There are a variety of 6L6 re-issue, some are claimed to be Tung-Sol specifications, others are from Black Sable, TAD, etc. Anyone has experience with these new production ?
   
  Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> I'm pretty sure something's off. I'm getting sound that comes in and out in terms of quality. I haven't gotten this with any of the other components I'm using. It almost sounds as if there's a bad connection, but it occurs at pretty regular intervals.


 
   
  I did not mentioned this before, but when my amp came something get dislodged too but it was easily fixed. If you get an issue which affected the sound, may be advisable to lodge a note with Garry at an early stage for return, just in case you cannot fix it.  If your unit is like mine, you would have notice that the serial number at the back panel was left blank, apparantly no warranty is intended.


----------



## disgruntleddave

It sounded/looked as if more power was going to one of the channels, which then was going back to regular levels (or too low levels, not sure). This coincided with one of the larger tubes being a fair bit brighter than the other. When the sound changed as described, the second tube seemed to have "cooled down", reducing in brightness.
   
  I'll keep an eye on it as I burn it in a bit more.


----------



## Skylab

greeni said:


> Thanks for the update.
> 
> So if I understand correctly, the hum was with the driver tube (6SJ7) but somehow one can get around the issue by rolling a pair of power tubes (Tung-Sol 6L6). Did you have a chance to try other 6L6s other than Tung-Sol and get similiar positive result ?
> 
> There are a variety of 6L6 re-issue, some are claimed to be Tung-Sol specifications, others are from Black Sable, TAD, etc. Anyone has experience with these new production ?



I'm sorry if I was not clear, but it is just the opposite, actually. The power tubes had NO impact on the hum issue at all. Changing them did NOT help, at all. ONLY changing the preamp tubes helped. So far, of multiple pairs of preamp tubes, only the stock tubes and one pair of Raytheon 6SJ7GTs were quiet. I'm not exactly sure why.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





disgruntleddave said:


> It sounded/looked as if more power was going to one of the channels, which then was going back to regular levels (or too low levels, not sure). This coincided with one of the larger tubes being a fair bit brighter than the other. When the sound changed as described, the second tube seemed to have "cooled down", reducing in brightness.
> 
> I'll keep an eye on it as I burn it in a bit more.


 

 Have you tried reversing the tubes to make sure they are not contributing to the issue?


----------



## disgruntleddave

I definitely have a bad tube. It arcs and I can hear it when it does so.


----------



## jeust0999

Mr. Skylab,
   
  If you listen to the LCD2/T1 with this amp, make sure to include your opinion in your review.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Monday

Got mine last night.  Barely had a chance to hook it up - need to get another DIN cable to connect it properly.  Connected directly to CDP - just to hear something.  I was very pleased with how clean it sounded.  Had been worried about all of the banter about hum -  but whatever background noise there is it is less than the RF noise I pick up in my phono preamp - which is very small.  Unfortunately my headphones are a still fairly new set of AKG k702s and I understand from the extensive thread elsewhere on this forum that they can take a while to break in.  Sooooo, take any comments with a grain of salt.  That said I thought the detail and soundstage were quite impressive. My initial critique is that the bass seems a little thin [although, again - this could be a "new" 702 issue]. The bass just seems to lack some presence and definition.
   
  So - keep in mind - this was the late night - plug it in - throw on the cans - and take a listen test.  I am really looking forward to really warming this thing up [and my headphones] and giving a more thorough listen.  I sense potential here. 
   
  Forgive the premature assessment - I just assume that others [like me] are anxious to hear about the 301.


----------



## dgcrane

I just received this information from Garry regarding the humm and lower impedance phones....
   
  "
  Hello Darren,
  There is a simple mod to lower the gain for Grado. The hum will be way lower. Please take a look at the attached picture. You need a needle to solder out one leg first, and then use a plier to take out the resistor while applying the iron to the other leg. Very easy. You can keep those resistors. When you are going to use 600ohm headphones, you need to put them back. Just simply solder them back on the top of the PCB instead of the bottom.
   
  The heat from the tubes are normal. They are very hot. When using 6L6, the power transfomer is just warm about 40-45C. When using EL34, it is hotter at around 50-55C, but your hand should still able to hold the transformer forever. These are the normal temporature status.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry
  "


----------



## willthong

Would these pair well with the AKG K701s?


----------



## eclein

We shouldn't have to de-solder resisters to listen to a certain kind of headphone and then solder them back in if you listen to another kind...thats a design fail. Plain and simple if it was necessary to do something like that in the circuit then he should have added some type of High/Low gain switch. 
   
  Modding something to make it better is one thing,* modding something to make it work??   Thats another!!!*


----------



## dgcrane

Agreed.... mine is on its way back this evening.....
   
  Darren

  
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> We shouldn't have to de-solder resisters to listen to a certain kind of headphone and then solder them back in if you listen to another kind...thats a design fail. Plain and simple if it was necessary to do something like that in the circuit then he should have added some type of High/Low gain switch.
> 
> Modding something to make it better is one thing,* modding something to make it work??   Thats another!!!*


----------



## Gubretti

Well so far it seems like only bad news about this amp, and then those ebay links I posted kept me from pulling the trigger. Sigh, it looked so attractive


----------



## Skylab

It isn't all bad news.  I'm really enjoying this amp now that I found a set of tubes that are quiet.  It's driving the HifiMan HE-500 very well.  And remember, this isn't designed to be a headphone amp - it's more designed as a speaker amp. But with the right tubes and headphones, it's a very good sounding headphone amp.
   
  That said, there are some concerns, for sure - it's unfortunate that it seems to be very sensitive to the tubes used in it.  Several of us have received bad power tubes (me included).  And while it is quietest with high impedance headphones, it delivers the least power to these.  Being transformer coupled should enable it to handle lower impedance loads, but it has the most hum issues with these...


----------



## eclein

*Why put a headphone output then???* He took everybodies advice and added a switch for the speaker and moved the jack for what- 4 kinds of headphones????
*1) He needs to:*
*a) Fix them*
*b) Send us a fix*
*c) Correct it for the next batch*
*d) Don't put a headphone jack in it if its not meant to do headphones-isn't that what Head-fi is all about???*
   
*2) And he needs to figure out a better shipping method...*..mine was bought for me and the gentleman bought expedited shipping which got a unit shipped out weeks ago only to have it returned to China because they won't send vacuum tubes air, so then we have to wait a week and 1/2 for the standard shipment to arrive in Canada, then its ships*, expedited shipping, its now going on almost two week to get the unit 1500 miles...5 days in customs...thats expedited????????????*
   
  He's going to losse his customer base, why send somebody a DIY fix via email to post for everyone, people are going to flip, cancel orders and flip....I am and it didn't cost me a dime. I feel really bad that my friend bought it for me, he keeps asking me did it arrive yet????


----------



## gtube

Hi Everyone,
  Thanks for your feedback. The orginal design of the MP-301 MK2 is mainly for speakers and high impedance headphones. In order to satisfy customers' requirement regarding the background humming noise, I have made a notice on our website and made some changes to the ordering page. We provide the customers an option to select the version they need from now on. Customers can choose 50-600ohm (default) or 32-300ohm version when they place orders. We will add a mini switch in the future batches, so the user can select the impedance they like easier. For existing customers who use low impedance headphones and want to implement the change, we can supply the mini switch and instruction to add the mini switch for free. If you are not familiar with soldering, please contact me for RMA. If you don't like the amp for any reason, you can return it for refund.    
   
  I tried to help some US customers to receive the MK2 faster, so we shipped those orders from China by China Post. However, a few of them was returned by the Chinese customs. They don't allow tube amps shipped by Air anymore. Canada Post expediated is the most afforadable way to ship parcels to the US. Express Post is way too expensive. There is no other option.
   
  Any question, feel free to email me
   
  Thanks,
  Garry


----------



## gtube

AKG K701 can work well in both setup. It is 72ohm.

  
  Quote: 





willthong said:


> Would these pair well with the AKG K701s?


----------



## gtube

Anyone who received a bad 6L6 power tube, please contact me. I will ship you a new one.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry


----------



## eclein

Thanks Garry for responding so quickly. Please send me the mini switch fix and I'll have someone local make the change or try to do the fix myself- I use mostly Grado's and very easy to drive cans.
  Let me know if you need any other information from me to make that happen. 
   Thanks again.


----------



## Rockyhill

My concern is with the extreme sensitivity to other tube types that are listed as replacements for this amp. The RCA 6SD7GT and National Union 6SJ7GT I've tried sound_* lovely *_except for the _*incredible amount of hum*_. The stock tubes are OK, but is OK satifactory? I think not. I believe the stock tube selection should have focused on building demand for this product. As it stands now, I'm trying to figure out how to keep from spending an equivilent amount of money to find tubes that compliment this amp.
   
  My 2 cents.
   
  Edit: I am primarily a speaker user.


----------



## gtube

In order to shorter the lead time and provide the best pricing to our customers, we used almost the same case as the one you showed on eBay which is made by the same case manufacturer. The face and back plates are completely redeigned to meet our customers' requirement. The circuit, all transfomers and components are totally different. If you don't believe, buy the one on eBay, listen to it, and open it, you will know the big differences in terms of design and quality if you are familiar with electronics.   
  
  Quote: 





gubretti said:


> I wasn't sure if those had the same tubes, but then I found this one as well http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-AC-EL34-Tube-Amplifier-Headphone-Amplifier-/320684340427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_2113wt_1139 , who cloned who


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





gtube said:


> Hi Everyone,
> Thanks for your feedback. The orginal design of the MP-301 MK2 is mainly for speakers and high impedance headphones. In order to satisfy customers' requirement regarding the background humming noise, I have made a notice on our website and made some changes to the ordering page. We provide the customers an option to select the version they need from now on. Customers can choose 50-600ohm (default) or 32-300ohm version when they place orders. We will add a mini switch in the future batches, so the user can select the impedance they like easier. For existing customers who use low impedance headphones and want to implement the change, we can supply the mini switch and instruction to add the mini switch for free. If you are not familiar with soldering, please contact me for RMA. If you don't like the amp for any reason, you can return it for refund.
> 
> I tried to help some US customers to receive the MK2 faster, so we shipped those orders from China by China Post. However, a few of them was returned by the Chinese customs. They don't allow tube amps shipped by Air anymore. Canada Post expediated is the most afforadable way to ship parcels to the US. Express Post is way too expensive. There is no other option.
> ...


 

 That is excellent customer service, Garry!


----------



## gtube

The stock tubes are NOS Shuguang 6J8P(6SJ7) from the 1970s. They are great tubes although not the best. May I know what headphone do you use?
   
  The output of those new National Union 6SJ7GT is too strong. They required some burn-in period I think. I will try a couple of the RCA 6AC7 with my HD580 tonight. 
  
  Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> My concern is with the extreme sensitivity to other tube types that are listed as replacements for this amp. The RCA 6SD7GT and National Union 6SJ7GT I've tried sound_* lovely *_except for the _*incredible amount of hum*_. The stock tubes are OK, but is OK satifactory? I think not. I believe the stock tube selection should have focused on building demand for this product. As it stands now, I'm trying to figure out how to keep from spending an equivilent amount of money to find tubes that compliment this amp.
> 
> My 2 cents.


----------



## Rockyhill

Hi Garry,
   
  I edited my post, probably while you were composing your reply. I primarily use this with speakers.
   
  RH
  
  Quote: 





gtube said:


> The stock tubes are NOS Shuguang 6J8P(6SJ7) from the 1970s. They are great tubes although not the best. May I know what headphone do you use?
> 
> The output of those new National Union 6SJ7GT is too strong. They required some burn-in period I think. I will try a couple of the RCA 6AC7 with my HD580 tonight.


----------



## gtube

I used AKG 240M for reference when designing the amp. I also tried K701, HD580, LCD-2, T1 and HE-6. They all sound lovely.
   






Anyway, don't trust my comment. Hopefully, Skylab and other users can answer your question objectively.

  
  Quote: 





willthong said:


> Anybody know if these might be able to drive the AKG-K701s? I mean, very few amps can, so do these fit the bill?


----------



## gtube

Hi Eclein,
  Sure, please drop me an email with your name and address again.
   
   
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> Thanks Garry for responding so quickly. Please send me the mini switch fix and I'll have someone local make the change or try to do the fix myself- I use mostly Grado's and very easy to drive cans.
> Let me know if you need any other information from me to make that happen.
> Thanks again.


----------



## popa

Okay everyone I looked over Garry's blog on his website and over a month ago he made this statement. "Latest update: Some users reported that the background hum is very noticeable when using low impedance headphones (<=32 ohm) such as Grado. If you are going to use low impedance headphones with the MP-301 MK2, please make a note to the order, so we will ship you the appropriate version. The stock version is optimized for 50-600 ohm headphones [...] I do not think very many people read this,myself included. Maybe Garry should have said more than once. Maybe I would have ordered the other version, I do not know. Anyway I still think this is a good amp.Just a few wrinkles to work out.


----------



## dgcrane

I think Garry mentioned that he just added this information, and in my book,  is doing a great job in making good for the problems that I had encountered.  
   
  Darren

  
  Quote: 





popa said:


> Okay everyone I looked over Garry's blog on his website and over a month ago he made this statement. "Latest update: Some users reported that the background hum is very noticeable when using low impedance headphones (<=32 ohm) such as Grado. If you are going to use low impedance headphones with the MP-301 MK2, please make a note to the order, so we will ship you the appropriate version. The stock version is optimized for 50-600 ohm headphones [...] I do not think very many people read this,myself included. Maybe Garry should have said more than once. Maybe I would have ordered the other version, I do not know. Anyway I still think this is a good amp.Just a few wrinkles to work out.


----------



## eclein

I didn't know he had a blog, and I also think he's doing well to answer questions about issues and help us resolve them. Easy as pie to put something on the order page of his website "Please indicate what type headphones..."....done and no problem. I love his amps, I have the first and turned alot of people on to it, so many that when I got sick and ended up in the hospital for a month a bunch of them ordered this new version, on my word it would be good. I just hope this headphone thing doesn't sour any of them and they give the amp a chance. If I was too overbearing I apologize to Garry, Skylab and anyone else reading along but it just hit me wrong.
   
  In the meantime my amp seems to be stuck in Il.somewhere???  LOL...........


----------



## ETAHL

My Sylvania 6SK7GT tubes came in. Plug them in for half a day. One is quiet, the other is average. They sound a bit thin in the mids with my system.
  Plug the stock 6J8P back in. I must got a set quiet tubes, they are quieter than the Sylvania 6SK7GTs, Sylvania 6SD7GT and the GE 6SJ7. The stock tubes are the most well rounded of the tubes sound quality wise, doing everything well. The GE 6SJ7 is just a tad sweeter in the mids, but it is also the noisiest. So the stock tubes are still the ones to beat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  More tubes coming.


----------



## Skylab

The stock preamp tubes are really pretty decent sounding I agree. The Raytheon 6SJ7GT's I am using now are a little smoother in the treble, and just a little warmer overall. But given the difficulties in getting quiet NOS preamp tubes, I think my recommendation to people would be to upgrade the power tubes, leave the stock preamp tubes in there, and see how you like the sound, and if you like it, leave it! The stock preamp tubes with the NOS Tung-Sol 6L6WGB tubes I put in sounded very good.


----------



## eclein

Mine finally made it to my post office here, now we'll see if they bring it today or make me wait longer....aahhhhhhhh...LOL. I'm very easily pumped up and new toys always get me going. Will report back later...I do have some tubes coming-power tubes(Mullard EL34's) and RCA for the preamp sectin but the stock tubes will stay if it sounds good as is. I'm a firm believer in if it ain't broke then don't fix it!!!


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





etahl said:


> My Sylvania 6SK7GT tubes came in. Plug them in for half a day. One is quiet, the other is average. They sound a bit thin in the mids with my system.
> Plug the stock 6J8P back in. I must got a set quiet tubes, they are quieter than the Sylvania 6SK7GTs, Sylvania 6SD7GT and the GE 6SJ7. The stock tubes are the most well rounded of the tubes sound quality wise, doing everything well. The GE 6SJ7 is just a tad sweeter in the mids, but it is also the noisiest. So the stock tubes are still the ones to beat.
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Have you tried the Jan-Philips ? Those are glass 6SJ7, others from RCA, Tung-Sol etc are metal tubes which may have a different signature.
   
   
   
  Concering this new switch, would someone enlighten me how would it reduce the hum ? My wide guess, it does not reduce the hum of the tubes as such but changes the impedence interface with the headphones such that the hum was more faded into the background for the same volume. Would dynamics and other aspects not change too in the process ? My RSA P-51 Mustang has a high / med / low switch and they do not sound the same to me. This is not to say that it is becoming a Meier with different setting, but you don't just change the output level, many things get affected too. It is not a case of have your cake and eat it too, but still probably much better than spoiled by the hums. I guess the best thing is still to search for a set of quiet tubes.
   
  Now if you are willing to trade-in your quiet tubes for my vintage matched pair of Tung-Sol....


----------



## BmWr75

My amp was picked up the Canada Post on April 24 and shipped out of Edmonton on April 26.  Still waiting for it to arrive.  Does anyone know if this will be coming by U.S. Post Office or another commercial carrier?  Will it require a signature?


----------



## Monday

bmwr75 -The tracking program will tell you when it clears customs and is handed off to the US postal service. Figure the US postal time from the port of entry.
   
  Spent 3 hours with mine last night. Pretty much dead quiet with 702s.  Vocals are pretty fantastic.  Anxious to have the tube rolling pioneers zero in on the winning combination - I am too much of a toob noob to be much help there.  I know that my 702s need to break in some but I still feel like there is a lower octave of music that's there and just wants to be moved forward a bit.  Will changing the power tubes effect this?


----------



## Rockyhill

I appreciate everyone's feedback, especially Garry's.
   
  I have a pair of 6P3S-E power tubes on order. Will try in conjunction with the 4 sets of input tubes I currently have.


  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The stock preamp tubes are really pretty decent sounding I agree. The Raytheon 6SJ7GT's I am using now are a little smoother in the treble, and just a little warmer overall. But given the difficulties in getting quiet NOS preamp tubes, I think my recommendation to people would be to upgrade the power tubes, leave the stock preamp tubes in there, and see how you like the sound, and if you like it, leave it! The stock preamp tubes with the NOS Tung-Sol 6L6WGB tubes I put in sounded very good.


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





greeni said:


> Have you tried the Jan-Philips ? Those are glass 6SJ7, others from RCA, Tung-Sol etc are metal tubes which may have a different signature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One set of the tubes to arrive is indeed a set of 6SJ7GT, the glass version.
  As of right now, the amp has way too much gain at the headphone out. Listening level with my LCD-2 is at 9 O'clock of the volume knob, my Grado SR80 even less. The amp should be tuned to lower the gain to get more volume control range. The noise seem to be fixed, regardless of the volume level, so by lowering the gain, the noise will most likely faded as well.
  From my DIY experience, the easiest is to use a resistive voltage divider at the output. However, the resistor has to be high quality to not affect the sound.
   
  As right now, the hum level at the speaker output is very low with the stock tube, more of a tube hiss than a hum. I doubt that any tube change will help much. Fine tuning of the headphone out circuit is probably the best course of action to lower the hum.


----------



## eclein

GOT IT!!!!
  Mine came US Postal service and I had a neighbor take it, she didn't have to sign for it.
   
  Mine is dead quiet, like exceptionally quiet and you can hear the potential of this amp.
  First off they are built like friggin tanks!!! No skimping here, heavy duty build and a first rate job is what mine is....the only beef I have so far is the speaker taps are so close together, and the plastic nuts are hard to tighten, my fingers are big but not too big and it was a contest to get speaker wire threaded in the post holes and then tighten down the nuts..but it works and is a minor nit pick. Stock tubes here and wishing I didn't buy a whole other set without first hearing these-they sound pretty good to me for stock items. All in all..I think it will be a sought after amp...and I'm only 30minutes into breakin!!!  Very nice Gary!! and Thank you so much Lee!!!!!!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> My amp was picked up the Canada Post on April 24 and shipped out of Edmonton on April 26.  Still waiting for it to arrive.  Does anyone know if this will be coming by U.S. Post Office or another commercial carrier?  Will it require a signature?


 

 Mine came today via the Post Office.  No signature required.  
   
  Have it hooked up on the work bench with some small Klipsch speakers and a set of Beyer DT-990 600 ohm cans.  No hum in the cans that I can hear or the speakers (but I have road noise to contend with in the garage).  
   
  However one speaker channel is significantly louder than the other.  I switched speaker wires and the loud channel followed the wire change.  So, it is in the amp.  However, the discernable volume difference between the channels using headphones is less.  Will give it time to burn in before declaring a problem.  Will also swap the power tubes from left to right and see if the louder channel follows a tube.


----------



## Skylab

Definitely swap the power tubes and see if the problem switches channels.  If so then you know the problem.


----------



## BmWr75

OK, I swapped the stock power tubes left to right.  The quieter channel stayed on the left.  Swapped the stock driver tubes left to right.  The quieter channel stayed on the left.  Swapped sources and reversed interconnects one at a time.  Quieter channel stayed on the left.  All these tests were done with speakers.  The volume imbalance is less noticeable from the headphone out, but still exists.
   
  Installed a set of 6P3S-E power tubes that worked fine in a Dynaco ST-70.  The right one squealed as it was heating up.  Pulled it and replaced it with another 6P3S-E, it squealed too as it was heating up.
   
  Installed a set of reissue Tung-Sol 6L6G TS power tubes.  No squeal on heat up, but the left channel is still noticeably quieter.
   
  I'm thinking the bias voltage is not the same between the two channels.  It is not adjustable.  Guess I'll be contacting Gary.


----------



## Skylab

Yep, sounds like it needs to go back.  Bummer, man.


----------



## willthong

Quote: 





gtube said:


> I used AKG 240M for reference when designing the amp. I also tried K701, HD580, LCD-2, T1 and HE-6. They all sound lovely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Cheers Garry


----------



## gtube

Hello BmWr75,
  I just sent you an email with a picture. It is very simple to fix. Just unplug the left channel output transformer connector, switch the black and white wires, plug it back. Done. I was too rush to ship out all pre-orders on the next day of arrival without inspection by myself. I just fired the QC guy in China. Every PCB and transformers were serious inspected by me. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time to stay in China longer to finish the final QC in China.  Starting from last Friday, every MP-301 MK2 will be inspected again in Canada by myself to ensure the unit and tubes work 100% before shipping. I apologize for the inconvenience happening on some of the pre-order users.  
   
  Sincerely,
  Garry
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> OK, I swapped the stock power tubes left to right.  The quieter channel stayed on the left.  Swapped the stock driver tubes left to right.  The quieter channel stayed on the left.  Swapped sources and reversed interconnects one at a time.  Quieter channel stayed on the left.  All these tests were done with speakers.  The volume imbalance is less noticeable from the headphone out, but still exists.
> 
> Installed a set of 6P3S-E power tubes that worked fine in a Dynaco ST-70.  The right one squealed as it was heating up.  Pulled it and replaced it with another 6P3S-E, it squealed too as it was heating up.
> 
> ...


----------



## dgcrane

That is wonderful news Garry and I cannot wait to receive my new amp with the built in impedance switch.

Darren


----------



## eclein

Garry--These sound "Excellent" when music is playing, but I now get the loud hum when its not (and just this moment as I'm typing the hum faded out and now is back-this sounds like a ground issue??)
  Overal sound quality wise and its early but I mean an hour into it and the unit sounds wonderful--spot on all the way around, bass is tight and fast, fast, and the highs are fine and don't sound rolled off to me if they are. The soundstage and imaging is magical-this is what is meant by 3-D, Holographic I think....I just get lost in the music which sounds like its just coming from the whole side of the room not 2 speakers. Its early, early but Skylab I'm thinking your lovin this amp, I know I am, I can take this sound anytime.
   
  Issues:
   1) Runs very hot-I won't ever leave this on unattended, it just gets too hot. I can put my hand on the big square blck box but not for long.
   2) Headphone is hot like you say, too hot.
   3) It needs a power light-Blue LED just so you have a visual that its powered up beside the tube glow
   
  **Garry did you get my PM about the switch and where to send it???
   
  I think this is a grandslam in the making myself!!!
  Hats off to ya Garry!!!!!! Good sound can't always be found but you have found it--Thank you!!!


----------



## BmWr75

Gary,[size=11.0pt][/size]
 


The B+ and P wires were reversed on the right channel.  Guess that is why it was louder and distorting at higher volumes.
 


The channels are balanced now and the amp sounds better.
   
FYI - this fix might be daunting to someone that has never been in a tube amp before.  The six T10 Torx screws holding the bottom on should be Phillips head screws because nearly everyone owns screwdrivers, not everyone owns Torx drivers.  I had trouble getting the wires out of the 3-wire connector too, but muscled them out with a small pick (also something not everyone would own).



 

  Regards,
  Scott
  [size=11.0pt][/size]

  Quote: 





gtube said:


> Hello BmWr75,
> I just sent you an email with a picture. It is very simple to fix. Just unplug the left channel output transformer connector, switch the black and white wires, plug it back. Done. I was too rush to ship out all pre-orders on the next day of arrival without inspection by myself. I just fired the QC guy in China. Every PCB and transformers were serious inspected by me. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time to stay in China longer to finish the final QC in China.  Starting from last Friday, every MP-301 MK2 will be inspected again in Canada by myself to ensure the unit and tubes work 100% before shipping. I apologize for the inconvenience happening on some of the pre-order users.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Garry


----------



## BmWr75

Just tested the amp with Beyerdynamic DT-990 600 ohm and AKG K702 62 ohm cans.  I hear no hum at all with the Beyers.  There is some low level hum with the K702s which shouldn't exist with an transformer output amp, but the hum very soft and would be acceptable to me if all I owned was K702s.  These same K702s hum like all get out and distort easily with a Bottlehead Crack, which lacks output transformers.


----------



## gtube

It is on its way to your door.  "Headphone is hot like you say, too hot.", I guess you wanted to say the tubes are very hot. Headphone cannot be hot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All power tubes run very hot for sure. You can cook an egg on it you like to.
   
  Are you using EL34 or 6L6? What is the room temprature? The transformer should be warm or a little bit hot when using 6L6. It is a lot hotter with EL34. Don't put the amp in a closet or cabinet. It must be placed in a wide open flat table with good ventilation.
   
  I hate the led light on any tube amp, expecially the blue one. It is too bright and annoying. Many users don't like it too.
   
  Some houses have a noisy ground, like mine in China. I think most of the houses in North America should not have this problem.
   
  Another thing you can try to further lower the hum is to switch the cold and hot wires in the power cord. It is very easy if you have a good power cord with openable plugs.  

  
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> Garry--These sound "Excellent" when music is playing, but I now get the loud hum when its not (and just this moment as I'm typing the hum faded out and now is back-this sounds like a ground issue??)
> Overal sound quality wise and its early but I mean an hour into it and the unit sounds wonderful--spot on all the way around, bass is tight and fast, fast, and the highs are fine and don't sound rolled off to me if they are. The soundstage and imaging is magical-this is what is meant by 3-D, Holographic I think....I just get lost in the music which sounds like its just coming from the whole side of the room not 2 speakers. Its early, early but Skylab I'm thinking your lovin this amp, I know I am, I can take this sound anytime.
> 
> Issues:
> ...


----------



## eclein

Garry I meant HOT like the gain is too high HOT!!
  The unit is completely stock, no tube rolling yet, not sure I want to...sounds that good right now!!
   
  The definition I'm hearing in the low end is wonderful. Its clear, detailed, dynamic and very precise tight bass...zero bloat.
  You did it Garry, seriously I get over pumped up but in my calmest state I'm saying "You Did It!!!" This brand new amp, not even broken in, sounds great----by the way how long should we consider break-in time????
  Did you redesign all your amps with whatever design is happening here, theory or whatever, I guess approach to the build would be appropriate, you said you went into designing this with certain goals or ideas in mind, what were they??? Do you feel like you achieved them??
   
  If anyone is interested there is a Musical Paradise Club on the web, just go here:
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/wordpress/


----------



## ETAHL

The Raytheon 6SJ7GTs came in. Sounds excellent with my speakers. Great sound stage and vocals.
  With the LCD-2, the vocals are just a bit too 'in your face'. I still prefer the stock tubes with the LCD-2. With my speakers, the 6SJ7GTs are better.
   
  I did Garry's resistor mod. Being a DIY guy helps quite a bit here.
  The hum is cut in half. I can barely hear it with my LCD-2 with no input signal. With my Grado SR80, the hum is still noticeable on very quiet passages, but it is a lot less intrusive than before. With the mod, I have no problems enjoying the amp with the Grados.


----------



## Raul

eclein-
  I see in your signature that you own both MP-301. Can you tell us how they do compare in real world?


----------



## eclein

Quote: 





etahl said:


> The Raytheon 6SJ7GTs came in. Sounds excellent with my speakers. Great sound stage and vocals.
> With the LCD-2, the vocals are just a bit too 'in your face'. I still prefer the stock tubes with the LCD-2. With my speakers, the 6SJ7GTs are better.
> 
> I did Garry's resistor mod. Being a DIY guy helps quite a bit here.
> The hum is cut in half. I can barely hear it with my LCD-2 with no input signal. With my Grado SR80, the hum is still noticeable on very quiet passages, but it is a lot less intrusive than before. With the mod, I have no problems enjoying the amp with the Grados.


 


  How hard is the mod, I haven't soldered in years but just don't want to send this back to Canada through the endless customs bottleneck. Does it require special tools, screwdrivers etc..?? How hard is getting the case off??


  Quote: 





raul said:


> eclein-
> I see in your signature that you own both MP-301. Can you tell us how they do compare in real world?


 

 The first thing I noticed is it felt as if I had gotten another 40 watts a channel, the new tube compliment was the ticket, really made a difference.
  Second thing was the bass was much deeper and has incredible definition, rounded tones, not flat kind of just getting it out this new version is incredible change in dynamics, realism, and specifically definition.
  Third was I started hearing details in the mix much better, they weren't just noticeable but noticeable in terms of exact placement in the mix. The tone on a lot of instruments is much better, drums have texture and weight.
  Fourth thing was how much different this unit sounds compared to the first--its a night and day difference for me, if it wasn't the same name on the faceplate you'd or I'd never know it was MP
  Fifth thing was how good the stock tubes sound, I bought a bunch of tubes to roll but I am in no hurry unless it rids me of the hum which is now making it close to unlistenable while it works its way out--I HOPE
  Sixth thing was the incredible value we have here, for $260 it shouldn't sound this good, if I paid $2,000 for an amp and this unit showed up I'd be very happy--this is a rare gem in audio, the way this sounds I wouldn't be surprised if he sells out a few times over during the next year
  Seventh thing was-I'm gonna sit back and watch people scramble for these I think and be really glad I'm listening to one from the start.
  8- after 7 hours the hum has gotten so bad I had to turn it off--I hope this is fixable without sending back the unit????.............
   
   I'm Ed by the way--Howdy!!!


----------



## BmWr75

Ed,
   
  Hello from western PA.
   
  Gary had posted a picture of two resistors to remove to make this amp work with Grados.  The post has disappeared.  Email him and I think he will send you the picture and instructions.  Looked like simply desoldering two resistors from the PC board.
   
  Scott


----------



## Monday

Scott-
   
  Any thoughts/comments on the MP301 vs your MingDa?  Also are you running your LCD-2 out of the speaker outputs or the headphone jack?
   
  Thanks-
  David


----------



## BmWr75

David,
   
  I've not tried the LCD-2s with the Ming Da.  Have listened to them mainly via the HP out on a vintage Sansui receiver.
   
  Scott


----------



## Monday

Thanks!  Perhaps I should have separated those questions a bit. One was just general impressions between the two as I imagine that this choice will be one that other members will be contemplating [I for one was seriously looking at the MingDa before I stumbled across the MP301].
   
  And - sort of  as a tangent - and because i noticed that you have two "headphone" amps that also have speaker outs - if you were using the speaker outs on your LCD-2.  That said - some of those old Sansuis were really nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## dgcrane

It was me who posted the info you mentioned and its at the top of page 17.
   
  Darren C
  dgcrane

  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Ed,
> 
> Hello from western PA.
> 
> ...


----------



## BmWr75

I've never hooked the LCD-2s up to the speaker outs of anything.  Haven't fabricated a pig tail to do that yet.  
   
  Sorry, have not done any A/B listening to the Ming Da vs. the MP 301 MKII either.
   
  I'm not much help am I.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





monday said:


> Thanks!  Perhaps I should have separated those questions a bit. One was just general impressions between the two as I imagine that this choice will be one that other members will be contemplating [I for one was seriously looking at the MingDa before I stumbled across the MP301].
> 
> And - sort of  as a tangent - and because i noticed that you have two "headphone" amps that also have speaker outs - if you were using the speaker outs on your LCD-2.  That said - some of those old Sansuis were really nice
> 
> ...


----------



## Monday

No worries Scott!  You just got your new rig what a day or so ago.


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Monday* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And - sort of  as a tangent - and because i noticed that you have two "headphone" amps that also have speaker outs - if you were using the speaker outs on your LCD-2.  That said - some of those old Sansuis were really nice
> 
> ...


 

 If you have a LCD-2 and set up with pigtails for speakers out, please give an inexpensive T-amp a try. You will be amazed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/550890/what-is-a-t-amp/15
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/548694/t-amp-audeze-lcd-2-surprise/15


----------



## gtube

It is very simple by desoldering two resistors from the front PCB board. Takes about 5 minutes. Please email me if you need the picture and instruction. The instruction for the additional mini dip switch mod will be posted later.   
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Ed,
> 
> Hello from western PA.
> 
> ...


----------



## gtube

Hi Everyone,
  Do not try to use any tube amp's speaker output to drive headphone directly. This can casue permanent damage to the output transformers.
   
  Also, tube amps cannot be powered on without connecting headphones or speakers. Users must connect their headphones and/or speakers to the tube amp all the time when the amp is on, otherwise, the output transformers will be heat up and damaged in a few hours. If you don't connect speakers to the MP-301 MK2, please make sure the switch is always on the headphone position, and the headphone is always connected when the amp is on. 
   
  Thanks,
  Garry

  
  Quote: 





etahl said:


> If you have a LCD-2 and set up with pigtails for speakers out, please give an inexpensive T-amp a try. You will be amazed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





etahl said:


> If you have a LCD-2 and set up with pigtails for speakers out, please give an inexpensive T-amp a try. You will be amazed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  My comment/method is only for a *T-amp*, which is a type of solid state digital amplifier. It is not intended for the MP-301MK2 or any tube amplifier.


----------



## Monday

As noted previously I'm new to the tube world - but I have seen a setup with LCD-2 and say a miniwatt amplifier.  I thought I have read elsewhere people hooking up similar headphones to speaker outs on low wattage amplifiers. 
   
  So when can one hook up headphones directly and when can't one do that?
   
  Garry - thank you for clarifying this question regarding your amp.


----------



## eclein

I got a bunch of stuff today UPS, one was a nice box from thetubestore.com which had 2 RCA 6SJ7's and 2 Mullard EL34's, they are playing now, all I can think to say is, "I spent maybe $65 on tubes and I'm almost positive I have world class sound right now!!!!!!"
   Day 2- Mullards, RCA's, hum is still present with total tube replacement but who cares because it sounds even better--I didn't think that to be possible. 
   
  If your new to tubes like I am, I rely heavily on the guys at thetubestore.com myself-Jon in particular. They never try and sell you the "tube of the week" or do anything screwed up. (There are alot of places to find tubes) I found that as long as I know a little about the brand I want and present Jon in my case with the sizes (I emailed him the chart Garry has on the website) they'll take care of finding the correct size's-I wanted Mullards so I could say "I got Mullards" and the others were presented to me as three options, RCA, and 2 other brands I already forget, I picked the RCA after reading on here that someone else had and it didn't sound like crap....so now "I got Mullards".
   
  Once Garry figures out the hum--has he while I was absent???- it'll be fun trying different tubes and molding the sound...this is the fun part!!!


----------



## Skylab

Garry has cautioned against connecting headphones to the speaker outs of the MP301 Mk 2, and so that's the rule for that amp. However, I have run the HE-6 off the speaker taps of my Leben, also an output transformer coupled tube amp, with absolutely no issues whatsoever. I do not think it is a problem in every case.


----------



## gtube

Hi Skylab,
  This is not a proper way for any speaker tube amps. You need to put at least a 6 or 8 ohm 10W resistor in parallel with the headphone input. Without the 8ohm power resistor, the extra engergy would heat up the output transformer and cause problem sooner or later.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry 
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Garry has cautioned against connecting headphones to the speaker outs of the MP301 Mk 2, and so that's the rule for that amp. However, I have run the HE-6 off the speaker taps of my Leben, also an output transformer coupled tube amp, with absolutely no issues whatsoever. I do not think it is a problem in every case.


----------



## gtube

On page 19, ETAHL had sucessfully removed the two resistors to lower the little hum. He is enjoying with his Grado now.

  
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> Once Garry figures out the hum--has he while I was absent???- it'll be fun trying different tubes and molding the sound...this is the fun part!!!


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *eclein* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> How hard is the mod, I haven't soldered in years but just don't want to send this back to Canada through the endless customs bottleneck. Does it require special tools, screwdrivers etc..?? How hard is getting the case off??


 
   
  I would not attempt it if you are not comfortable with soldering. No fancy tools is needed, but you do need some care and dexterity. Suitable soldering iron, tweezers and a probe to poke out the resistors help a lot.
  Maybe get an electronics technician friend to have a go at it; it is not too hard to do.


----------



## openreel

There are very few electronics service shops left with today's disposable units, but you might consider a reputable car audio installer. They are always soldering and know their way around PCBs. A simple job that might cost only a few dollars or just lunch for the tech. Bring him the torx screwdriver though.


----------



## gtube

I will try to post a complete picture guide to remove the two resistors tonight. It is a 5 minute task.


----------



## Monday

Garry will the revised version from the factory also be an inside switch?  It'd be great to switch between cans without disassembling the unit.


----------



## eclein

torx screwdriver????  whats that...LOL.....do I need the torx to get to the resistors??


----------



## BmWr75

Yeap, torx is a variant of phillips head or an allen wrench.  6 torx screws hold the bottom plate on, which must be removed to access the printed circuit boards.
  
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> torx screwdriver????  whats that...LOL.....do I need the torx to get to the resistors??


----------



## BmWr75

I rolled tubes today.  Reissue Genalex KT-66s for power tubes.  NOS Jan Phillips *6SJ7WGT for drivers.  There is no hum at all driving Beyer DT-770 600 ohm cans.*
   
*This amp drives high impedance cans wonderfully!!*


----------



## Skylab

No doubt, when you have a quiet set of tubes, this is one sweet spending amp for the money.


----------



## gtube

Hi Guys,
  Here is the step-by-step modification guide for low impedance headphones users, such as Grado. or you want to lower the hum level when using noisy tubes.
   
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/files/MP-301-MK2-Mod.pdf
   
  Thanks,
  Garry


----------



## gtube

The factory version will be exactly the same, internal mini switch only. It will be preset to 32 - 300ohm position for better compatability.

  
  Quote: 





monday said:


> Garry will the revised version from the factory also be an inside switch?  It'd be great to switch between cans without disassembling the unit.


----------



## wotts

Hello all!!
   
  I've been listening to this amp with my T-1s and loving it thus far. I have the stock tubes in, looking to see what I can roll though. The T-1s sound good, a little low frequency hum at low volume levels, but when the music is playing I can't hear it. I have a few tubes on order to try out in it and really looking forward to the rolling. Thanks for a fun amp Garry!


----------



## Rockyhill

Hi Garry,
   
  When you write "*or you want to lower the hum level when using noisy tubes*" is this for speaker applications too? Or just headphones.
   
  Thanks,
   
  RH

  
  Quote: 





gtube said:


> Hi Guys,
> Here is the step-by-step modification guide for low impedance headphones users, such as Grado. *or you want to lower the hum level when using noisy tubes.*
> 
> http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/files/MP-301-MK2-Mod.pdf
> ...


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Hi Garry,
> 
> When you write "*or you want to lower the hum level when using noisy tubes*" is this for speaker applications too? Or just headphones.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The mod only affects the headphone out. You are modifying the headphone circuit.
   
  I don't find noise to be a problem with my speaker setup, even with noisy tubes. A few feet away, the hum is inaudible.


----------



## Rockyhill

Got it.
   
  Besides the stock tubes, I've used RCA and Tung-Sol 6SD7GT and National Union 6SJ7GT.
  I thought the stock were a little lacking in the high end.
  RCA and NU sound *very* nice sonically but the hum is not tolerable. NU also extremely microphonic. Garry advised they aren't compatible.
  The Tung-Sol is better than stock, IMO, but I would like to improve that.


----------



## eclein

I'm diggin the Mullards (EL34) and they were not expensive


----------



## gtube

It is for the headphone section only. Even if you have the most noisy tube, it is hardly to hear it thru speakers.

  
  Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Hi Garry,
> 
> When you write "*or you want to lower the hum level when using noisy tubes*" is this for speaker applications too? Or just headphones.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rockyhill

Not true, sir. The hum is evident at low volume levels for the aforementioned tube types.
  
  Quote: 





gtube said:


> It is for the headphone section only. Even if you have the most noisy tube, *it is hardly to hear it thru speakers*.


----------



## eclein

The only reason I heard the hum was because I have speakers hooked up. The hum got so bad after 6-7 hours I shut the system down to give my ears a break. I never really tried the HP output yet so I'm as
  I use Grado's and the gain is too high there the way it is now.


----------



## dgcrane

+1.... I am running as I type fully stock with my mission speakers at lower volume since the kiddies are going to sleep and I have a noticeable hum that is quite distracting.
   
  Darren
  
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> The only reason I heard the hum was because I have speakers hooked up. The hum got so bad after 6-7 hours I shut the system down to give my ears a break. I never really tried the HP output yet so I'm as
> I use Grado's and the gain is too high there the way it is now.


----------



## ETAHL

I wonder if the routing of the input signal lines is an issue. Stock as shown in my photo of the guts, the input signal lines are bundle and zip tied with the AC power and output lines. The bundle of wires also pass closely by an open transformer/choke.

   
  Ever since the photo, even before I started using the amp, I separated the inputs lines from the bundle and tuck them to the far right (towards bottom of photo). Could that be the reason I have low noise level? I honestly cannot hear any hum from my speakers with this amp, until I stick my ear to the speakers.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I rolled tubes today.  Reissue Genalex KT-66s for power tubes.  NOS Jan Phillips *6SJ7WGT for drivers.  There is no hum at all driving Beyer DT-770 600 ohm cans.*
> 
> *This amp drives high impedance cans wonderfully!!*


 

 Am listening to one of my favorite bands via Beyer DT-770 600 ohm cans, using the above tubes.  It sounds good.  Hum is a non-issue.
   
  For high impedance cans, I think the Bottlehead Crack -w- Speedball upgrade amp sounds better, but it costs $319 + shipping and you have assemble it.  In comparison, the MP301 MKII cost $310 delivered to PA.
   
  Granted , there are some quality control issues with the early shipments (bad tubes, B+ and P wires reversed). Gary has been very responsive though.  The humming with low impedance phones (Grados mainly) shouldn't be an issue with a transformer coupled output amp, but it is.  Gary has offered a potential solution to that issue (switch).  I've experienced the humming with speakers, or maybe it was an oscillation in my case, others report it to.  Maybe this issue can be solved with tubes rolling, maybe not.  Must be solved though, or remove the speaker outputs on future amp sales and change the marketing.
   
  This amp is definitely tube sensitive and as Skylab said, the 6SJ7 tube is notoriously noisy.  My NOS driver tubes shown above were quiet out of the box with the aforementioned set up.
   
  People report the amp runs hot.  It does, but so do my 120 watt Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks........all tube amps generate lots of heat.
   
  So far, I this is the cheapest, best sounding tube HP amp for high impedance cans I've heard.  Full disclosure though, I've not heard a cheaper one.
   
  Would also add that the MKII is a very tubey sounding amp to me.  It brings out the midrange in the DT-770 HPs, which many say have a recessed midrange.


----------



## Rockyhill

Please post an "after" photo.
   
  Thanks

 RH
   
  Edit: what size torx does this use?
   
  Quote: 





etahl said:


> I wonder if the routing of the input signal lines is an issue. Stock as shown in my photo of the guts, the input signal lines are bundle and zip tied with the AC power and output lines. The bundle of wires also pass closely by an open transformer/choke.
> 
> 
> Ever since the photo, even before I started using the amp, I separated the inputs lines from the bundle and tuck them to the far right (towards bottom of photo). Could that be the reason I have low noise level? I honestly cannot hear any hum from my speakers with this amp, until I stick my ear to the speakers.


----------



## Skylab

Tube amps run hot. That's just how it is. Some run hotter than others, sure, but I've never had one that didn't run hot. Tubes make heat. It's part of how they are. And power transformers make heat. 

Class A solid state amps also run very, very hot.


----------



## jeust0999

I really dig the looks of the amp.


----------



## BmWr75

T10 Torx


----------



## ETAHL

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Please post an "after" photo.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> RH


 


   
  I just tuck the two gray color wires to where the red lines are drawn.


----------



## Rockyhill

Thanks BmWr75 and ETAHL. Surgery scheduled for this weekend. As I told my wife, this amp sounds very nice as is and is very close to sounding amazing (at $247 - Stereophile critics notwithstanding)

  
  Quote: 





etahl said:


> I just tuck the two gray color wires to where the red lines are drawn.


----------



## Rockyhill

I performed the input wire move and also pulled the blue power switch wires away from the pcb (in mine it was contacting the board). Initial tests with Tung-Sol 6SD7GT indicate it's perhaps a little quieter.
   
  Will try some of the more offensive 'hummers' later.
   
  BTW, one of the torx screws was stripped and I had to get creative to remove...


----------



## ETAHL

Keep burning in the tubes. I keep mine run on speakers when I am around to keep an eye or ear on it. The noise do subside over time.


----------



## Rockyhill

I put the RCA's back in yesterday, will keep them in as long as I can stand it (or until they quiet down). How many hours does it typically take to get a tube to settle down? I'd guess I have 30 hours on these +/-.

  
  Quote: 





etahl said:


> Keep burning in the tubes. I keep mine run on speakers when I am around to keep an eye or ear on it. The noise do subside over time.


----------



## Raul

*BEWARE OF THE POWER CORD!*
  If yours is like mine, rather thin and very soft/flexible, I advise to immediately replace it with a good quality one!
  Mine shorted today. While I was listening to the amp, I suddenly heard a "ciack" noise and I saw the smoke coming up from somewhere, but I didn't realize it was the power cord. I immediately turned off the amp, removed the tubes and the bottom cover and put my eyes and nose inside. Nothing seemed burnt and no smoke smell inside. I continued my inspection and I noticed that the power cord was melted, nearly cut in two, close to the amp socket. I have to say that I never moved the amp from the place where I first put it, so I never touched or strained the cord. And my amp had very little use yet so the power cord was probably defective. I remember that when I first saw it I noticed it was too thin and too soft for my taste and I looked into my stuff for a better one but I didn't have one at hand so I put it in use and forgot about it. Until today, when it scared me a lot. For a few minutes I believed to have killed the amp. Then I removed my PC cord and tested the amp. It worked ok, sounding as good as before.
  A question for the more knowledgeable in electronics: could the shorted power cord have damaged something inside? I hope it's not the case, as I saw no sign of damage inside and the amp is working ok.
  And a last question: is there a fuse in this amp? I didn't see it. And no fuse blew anyway.


----------



## maverickronin

From the pics it looks like there's a fuse compartment in the IEC socket.


----------



## gtube

Hi Raul,
  There are two fuses in the IEC power socket (one for spare). The power cord coming with the amp is a quality one. It is not soft at all. Other users can confirm. Could you email me a picture? Since it was the power cord problem, the fuse didn't blow for sure. The home power breaker should be cut off immediately if the power cord goes wrong. As I rememer, you are from Italy, the MP-301 MK2 only comes with a US plug power cord only. The defective one should not be the one we supply. Did you use an adapter?
   
   
  Quote: 





raul said:


> *BEWARE OF THE POWER CORD!*
> If yours is like mine, rather thin and very soft/flexible, I advise to immediately replace it with a good quality one!
> Mine shorted today. While I was listening to the amp, I suddenly heard a "ciack" noise and I saw the smoke coming up from somewhere, but I didn't realize it was the power cord. I immediately turned off the amp, removed the tubes and the bottom cover and put my eyes and nose inside. Nothing seemed burnt and no smoke smell inside. I continued my inspection and I noticed that the power cord was melted, nearly cut in two, close to the amp socket. I have to say that I never moved the amp from the place where I first put it, so I never touched or strained the cord. And my amp had very little use yet so the power cord was probably defective. I remember that when I first saw it I noticed it was too thin and too soft for my taste and I looked into my stuff for a better one but I didn't have one at hand so I put it in use and forgot about it. Until today, when it scared me a lot. For a few minutes I believed to have killed the amp. Then I removed my PC cord and tested the amp. It worked ok, sounding as good as before.
> A question for the more knowledgeable in electronics: could the shorted power cord have damaged something inside? I hope it's not the case, as I saw no sign of damage inside and the amp is working ok.
> And a last question: is there a fuse in this amp? I didn't see it. And no fuse blew anyway.


----------



## gtube

Hi Rocky,
  I mean if the ear is not too close to the speakers (>20 - 30cm), it is hard to hear the little hum even if using the most noisy tubes. Headphone is another story. Selecting the proper tubes and the output impedance mode are very impotant. 
   
  Garry
   
  Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Not true, sir. The hum is evident at low volume levels for the aforementioned tube types.


----------



## eclein

OK...there is a hum coming from the speakers loud enough that most of us are hearing it and it is effecting how long I can play my tunes before the hum pushes me out of the room. So just about everybody is hearing this hum but everytime we ask you about it Garry you try and tell us "we are really not hearing it"... why do you keep ducking this problem?? Are there problems with the amp that we don't know about yet that could possibly due some damage to the amp, us, or our surroundings???
   The only reason I ask, "The only reason I ask" such a pointed question is because you keep ducking all of us when we each take a tuen at asking you about it directly???? If your not able to address the issue for whatever reason we have no other choice then to start thinking of other scenarios????
   I love the amps, they sound great, they have a really prominent hum right now and its common enough that just about everyone has mentioned it, at some point your going to need to address the issue or these amps will showing back up at your door I would think. So here is another chance to let us know what is causing the hum?? Is it temporary? Is this an issue thats part of a bigger problem and the reason QC people are loosing there jobs etc....
   
   Garry people hear a problem there is no denying it so please tell us what the root cause is of this problem.


----------



## gtube

As ETHAL mentioned, "I honestly cannot hear any hum from my speakers with this amp, until I stick my ear to the speakers."
   
  Thanks for your clarification.
   
  This is the normal state of the MP-301 MK2 when using it with speakers (88db to 92db efficiency).


----------



## gtube

As ETHAL mentioned, "I honestly cannot hear any hum from my speakers with this amp, until I stick my ear to the speakers."
   
  Thanks for your clarification.
   
  This is the normal state of the MP-301 MK2 when using it with speakers (88db to 92db efficiency).


----------



## Rockyhill

Garry,
   
  My experience is as follows:
   
  Tung-Sol JAN-CTL-6SD7GT: least amount of hum, similar to stock tubes, noticable at a range of 36" +/-
  RCA 6SD7GT: hum noticible from 20 feet and through nearby walls.
  National Union 6SJ7GT: low frequency hum similar to RCA (but louder) and a _higher_ low frequency hum also very noticable.
   
  I replaced the power cord with one that has a ferrite core a few days ago. Separated input wires away from output wires. Lifted power switch wires away from PCB. No change. My amp shipped direct to me from China.
   
  Thanks.

  
  Quote: 





gtube said:


> Hi Rocky,
> I mean if the ear is not too close to the speakers (>20 - 30cm), it is hard to hear the little hum even if using the most noisy tubes. Headphone is another story. Selecting the proper tubes and the output impedance mode are very impotant.
> 
> Garry


----------



## gtube

Within 36 inchs, that is possible you can hear a little bit of it if your speaker is very high efficiency.
   
  May I know what is your speaker efficiency? What power tubes are you using?
   
  As I methioned earlier, please switch the cold and hot wire in the power cord. With the correct AC phase, it can be further smaller.


----------



## Rockyhill

Speakers are Realistic Nova 8. Unknown efficiency. Power tubes are stock.
   
  The stock pre tubes also had noticble close range hum.
   
  ETHAL's comments appear to be a minority experience. Skylab went through many iterations of tube rolls (based on his postings) before he reduced hum.
   
  When I had the bottom off I noticed the (input?) transformers were able to move from side to side rather easily although the nuts holding them were tight.
  
  This amp seems to have great potential but also seems to have something negatively affecting it's performance with regard to hum.
  
  Quote: 





gtube said:


> Within 36 inchs, that is possible if your speaker is high efficiency.
> 
> May I know what is your speaker efficiency? What power tubes are you using?
> 
> As I methioned earlier, please switch the cold and hot wire in the power cord. With the correct AC phase, it can be further smaller.


----------



## gtube

Hello Eclein,
  If you want the MP-301 MK2 to be 100% dead quiet, that is impossible. Don't like S.S., most of tube amps have a little bit of hum which is normal.
   
  ETHAL mentioned "I honestly cannot hear any hum from my speakers with this amp, until I stick my ear to the speakers."
   
  This is the normal state you should get when using speakers. If not, there are a few reasons:
   
  1. You are not using the stock tubes. The tubes you are using are more noisy, or the output is too strong when they are new.
  2. You have a very high efficiency speakers (most likely >95db), and you sit very close to the speakers (<1 meter, 36 inches).
  4. You may have a noisy ground in your house.
  5. The AC phase needed to be corrected by switching the cold and hot wires in the power cord.
   
  If you still don't satisfy the performance of the amp, you can ship it back for inspection/exchange or refund.
   
  Sincerely,
  Garry


  
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> OK...there is a hum coming from the speakers loud enough that most of us are hearing it and it is effecting how long I can play my tunes before the hum pushes me out of the room. So just about everybody is hearing this hum but everytime we ask you about it Garry you try and tell us "we are really not hearing it"... why do you keep ducking this problem?? Are there problems with the amp that we don't know about yet that could possibly due some damage to the amp, us, or our surroundings???
> The only reason I ask, "The only reason I ask" such a pointed question is because you keep ducking all of us when we each take a tuen at asking you about it directly???? If your not able to address the issue for whatever reason we have no other choice then to start thinking of other scenarios????
> I love the amps, they sound great, they have a really prominent hum right now and its common enough that just about everyone has mentioned it, at some point your going to need to address the issue or these amps will showing back up at your door I would think. So here is another chance to let us know what is causing the hum?? Is it temporary? Is this an issue thats part of a bigger problem and the reason QC people are loosing there jobs etc....
> 
> Garry people hear a problem there is no denying it so please tell us what the root cause is of this problem.


----------



## gtube

Skylab was testing it with headphones. That is why quiet tubes are important. For speakers, it is not a problem, unless your speakers is very high efficiency and you sit very close (< 36 inches or much closer) from it. This a special case for speaker users.
   
  Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Speakers are Realistic Nova 8. Unknown efficiency. Power tubes are stock.
> 
> The stock pre tubes also had noticble close range hum.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rockyhill

Garry,
   
  I would think the focus would be on resolving the issues reported with speaker use as this is (primarily) a speaker amp. The product description lists the following replacement tubes: 6SJ7, 5693, 6AC7, 6SK7, 6SD7, 6J4P, 6*4, 6*8
  
  Speaking for myself, the 6SD7 and 6SJ7 have significant hum. Other owners report similar experience. I do not have noisy ground in my house. No other appliances/electronics in my house exhibit hum like this.
   
  Skylab,
   
  Regarding this post below, what tubes are you using and is the amp quiet with speakers?

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It isn't all bad news.  I'm really enjoying this amp now that I found a set of tubes that are quiet.  It's driving the HifiMan HE-500 very well.  And remember, this isn't designed to be a headphone amp - it's more designed as a speaker amp. But with the right tubes and headphones, it's a very good sounding headphone amp.
> 
> That said, there are some concerns, for sure - it's unfortunate that it seems to be very sensitive to the tubes used in it.  Several of us have received bad power tubes (me included).  And while it is quietest with high impedance headphones, it delivers the least power to these.  Being transformer coupled should enable it to handle lower impedance loads, but it has the most hum issues with these...


----------



## BmWr75

I've listened to this amp  99% thru 600 ohm headphones.  I got no hum with the stock driver tubes or Phillips JAN 6SJ7WGT.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I've listened to this amp  99% thru 600 ohm headphones.  I got no hum with the stock driver tubes or Phillips JAN 6SJ7WGT.


 


  Would you be able to spend some time listening through speakers and report your experience? That would be appreciated.
   
  Thanks,
   
  RH


----------



## Skylab

Using B&W DM601 bookshelf speakers, and with Raytheon 6SJ7GT driver tubes, I can't hear any hum through the speakers unless I have my head very close to the speakers. From a 2M listening position, I hear no hum.

Again, though, I do not think there is anything magical about the Raytheons - I don't advise people run out and try to find a pair (and the odds of your finding these specific Raytheon "Bantal" tubes is very, very unlikely). I just think it happens that the MP301 "liked" this particular pair, versus the other ones I tried.

And again, with the stock preamp tubes, I had absolutely zero hum, even with headphones. My review is almost done, and in it I will be recommending to NOT try to roll the preamp tubes. There are lots of rolling options for the power tubes, and the hum does not seem to be related at all to the power tubes. The MP301 Mk 2 is a bit finicky relating to the driver tubes, but since the stock tubes were quiet, I think the best move is not to change them.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Would you be able to spend some time listening through speakers and report your experience? That would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> RH


 

 Your question just reminded me that I listened to this amp via JBL L112 speakers yesterday for a while....there was no hum (was using the JAN drivers and reissue Genalex KT-66 power tubes).  
   
  Did listen to the amp via Klipsch KLF-20s (100 dB efficient) for a while the day I got the amp, still had the stock tubes in it.  It sounded fine from the start.  I had to pause the source while I was messing with another system, when I came back in the room a weird (more static than hum) sound could be heard coming from the speakers.  Immediately turned the amp off.  Restarted it and the source and the noise problem did not happen again.


----------



## gtube

Hi Rocky,
  I just randomly took one MP-301 MK2 out of the shelf. I also found a pair of RCA 6AC7 and RCA 6SJ7Y in my warehouse. They are brand new tubes. I compared them to the stock 6J8P thru my 32 ohm headphone, 300ohm HD580 headphone and my B&W speakers (88db). The 6AC7 and 6SJ7Y are just a liitle bit noisier than the 6J8P thru the 32 ohm headphone. Through the HD580 and the speakers, they are very much the same. I cannot hear any difference. The tiny hum can only be noticable when my ear is 20 cm away from the grill of my B&W.
   
  If you cannot get this result, you can ship it back to me for inspection/exchange or refund.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry
  
  Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Garry,
> 
> I would think the focus would be on resolving the issues reported with speaker use as this is (primarily) a speaker amp. The product description lists the following replacement tubes: 6SJ7, 5693, 6AC7, 6SK7, 6SD7, 6J4P, 6*4, 6*8
> 
> ...


----------



## jeust0999

I just wanted to mention that the new design of this amp was improved on every single aspect over the previous generation. It is neither function over form, or vice versa. Instead, it is simply progression from all angles. Really good looking amp, regardless of price/competition.
   
  For those who own these amps, keep posting more pictures!
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ETAHL

Rockyhill,
  It is a bummer, but looks like you amp is not working properly, maybe a lemon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  It is the best to send it back to Garry for a replacement for a tested and impedance fixed unit. Much less headache for you down the road.


----------



## Rodz

hi Garry.
   
   the hum really seems to be related to the particular tubes on hand..as i type this i am using some GE 6ac7 with zero hum,the supplied tubes and a set of tung-sol 6sd7gt's were also absolutely quiet from the get go.a pair of sylvania 6sk7gt's on the other hand?...hummed badly.if what i experienced was the same as what others have,this is not a slight hum,it's a heavy 60 hz hum that's easily heard,it sounds much like a bad filter cap...but as i said only one of four sets of tubes I've tried has done this,all are NOS and while that doesn't exclude the possibility of the sylvania's being at fault...given the multitude of other posts about this.i think it's fair to say that there IS an issue...but for me at least it really seems to defy logic beyond thinking it's the particular tubes being used...i believe someone else posted that the sylvania tubes i have actually were the only ones that didn't hum for them,which is why i picked them up,but the hum was really that bad that i took them out in less than 5 minutes...this at about 2 meters from my b&w cm1's [only 84db!]
   
  my stock output tubes are also redplating slightly,but having switched them side to side,the worst of the two remains so,leading me to believe this is a tube issue,so while they appear to work ok for now, I'll also be trying replacements for them shortly


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





gtube said:


> Hi Raul,
> There are two fuses in the IEC power socket (one for spare). The power cord coming with the amp is a quality one. It is not soft at all. Other users can confirm. Could you email me a picture? Since it was the power cord problem, the fuse didn't blow for sure. The home power breaker should be cut off immediately if the power cord goes wrong. As I rememer, you are from Italy, the MP-301 MK2 only comes with a US plug power cord only. The defective one should not be the one we supply. Did you use an adapter?


 

 Hi Garry,
  yes I am from Italy and I got the amp directly from the China warehouse. Mine didn't come with a US plug power cord, but with a schuko plug power cord, so I didn't use any adapter. As you can see from the pics below the cord was very thin (and also very soft) when compared with conventional power cords. Maybe your guys in china are less careful to quality than you are


----------



## gtube

That is very strange. I have never ordered this type of power cord. They should be all high quality US plugs. I am going to ask the staff in China to see if they substitute the US plug cord for a EU plug when shipping to Europe.

  
  Quote: 





raul said:


>


----------



## gtube

I like your CM1. I have the B&W 805 Matrix. It is very hard to drive. With MP-301 MK2, the old B&W DM200 sounds better than the 805 Matrix. The B&W 805 Matrix must be driven by the MP-401 to get the best performance. The 600 series is more suitable for the MP-301 MK2. It is a bit out of topic here in a headphone forum. I should stop now. 
  
  Quote: 





rodz said:


> hi Garry.
> 
> "my b&w cm1's [only 84db!]"


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





gtube said:


> That is very strange. I have never ordered this type of power cord. They should be all high quality US plugs. I am going to ask the staff in China to see if they substitute the US plug cord for a EU plug when shipping to Europe.


 

 I don't know if it's strange, but I can assure you that this one was the power cord that came with my amp, and the fact that it shorted after a few hours confirm it wasn't high quality. Now I am happy with a thick PC power cord, but maybe you were right to fire the QC guy over there.


----------



## Raul

About the hum affaire, I was the first to affirm to have no hum in my amp.
  I tried it for less than an hour with stock tubes and I found the sound a bit "thin" (but no hum anyway) so I replaced them with other tubes I had at hand without waiting the burning of the stock ones. I put two used metal 6SJ7 RCA and two russian 6P3S-E, and the sound quality decisely improved. And still absolutely no hum.
  I have to say that I am using the amp with Dynaco A-25 speakers that should have a rather low sensitivity (about 86dB I think) but without signal and the volume at maximum there is absolutely no hum, even with your ear very close to the speaker.
  Yesterday I made another test by replacing the RCA's with a pair of NOS Fivre (vintage italian tube brand) 6SJ7-GT. Great sound and still no hum.
  So I took my Superlux HD-681 (32 ohm 98dB, sorry but but I haven't great quality cans) and tested the amp with these for noise. With no signal and max volume there is absolutely no hum, only a slight "hiss" in the background, noticeable but very slight. Then the shorted power cord prevented me to test some other headphones, but I hope to have time to do it tomorrow.
   
  And about the "running very hot" thing, after how much time your became so hot? With mine I can easily keep a hand on the trannies cap (but I never ran it for several hours in a row). Garry, maybe the 230V option can have something to do with this?


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The B+ and P wires were reversed on the right channel.  Guess that is why it was louder and distorting at higher volumes.


 
  Garry and Scott - so which are the correct positions of the three wires of the OPT connectors? Both mine have black on B+, red on U and white on P, but from ETAHL pic here http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/536681/new-info-musical-paradise-mp-301-mk2/315#post_7454553 it seems that his CN1 has black on the P (while it seems to have white on CN2).


----------



## Rodz

Quote: 





gtube said:


> I like your CM1. I have the B&W 805 Matrix. It is very hard to drive. With MP-301 MK2, the old B&W DM200 sounds better than the 805 Matrix. The B&W 805 Matrix must be driven by the MP-401 to get the best performance. The 600 series is more suitable for the MP-301 MK2. It is a bit out of topic here in a headphone forum. I should stop now.


 

  i like the CM1's too, i had to try them with this amp,but i didn't really buy it to replace the Bryston that normally drives them, tho my results also hold when driving the small monitors on my desktop...which IS what this amp was bought for  i fully understand your experience Garry,it is mine as well,for the most part my amp is very quiet...but not with every tube i've tried,and apparently not for many others here with any tube..i can offer no reasons why,but everybody can't have dodgy tubes,even tho it might look like they do[from my perspective as well!]there has to be some reason and i just wanted to give a specific example that was outside what you seemed to be thinking people were saying....if what i heard is what others are dealing with,it's really not mild residual noise..this amp is capable of some serious HUMMM 
   
  i came home tonight to find yet another package of goodies in my mailbox,while typing this i am listening to a set of nos GE 6SJ7's...and again...there is NO hum,even at this very close distance[about 2ft] ,these are shiny new and have literally about five minutes on them,they're as quiet as can be...these show some promise and i think are going to be keepers....thats four different sets for me that have no audible hum at all...and only one set that does


----------



## gtube

Hi Rual,
  The black wire goes to the B+, red one to U and white one to P. Same on both channel. If B+ and P are switched, the sound is at least 30% smaller on that channel. Don't worry about it if both channels are balanced.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry
   
  Quote: 





raul said:


> Garry and Scott - so which are the correct positions of the three wires of the OPT connectors? Both mine have black on B+, red on U and white on P, but from ETAHL pic here http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/536681/new-info-musical-paradise-mp-301-mk2/315#post_7454553 it seems that his CN1 has black on the P (while it seems to have white on CN2).


----------



## gtube

Hi Rodz,
  Thanks for sharing your experience. How is the sound when using the MP-301 MK2 to drive the 84db CM1? I guess it is a bit dark and lazy since the CM1 is power hungry. 
   
  Thanks,
  Garry
  
  Quote: 





rodz said:


> i like the CM1's too, i had to try them with this amp,but i didn't really buy it to replace the Bryston that normally drives them, tho my results also hold when driving the small monitors on my desktop...which IS what this amp was bought for  i fully understand your experience Garry,it is mine as well,for the most part my amp is very quiet...but not with every tube i've tried,and apparently not for many others here with any tube..i can offer no reasons why,but everybody can't have dodgy tubes,even tho it might look like they do[from my perspective as well!]there has to be some reason and i just wanted to give a specific example that was outside what you seemed to be thinking people were saying....if what i heard is what others are dealing with,it's really not mild residual noise..this amp is capable of some serious HUMMM
> 
> i came home tonight to find yet another package of goodies in my mailbox,while typing this i am listening to a set of nos GE 6SJ7's...and again...there is NO hum,even at this very close distance[about 2ft] ,these are shiny new and have literally about five minutes on them,they're as quiet as can be...these show some promise and i think are going to be keepers....thats four different sets for me that have no audible hum at all...and only one set that does


----------



## Skylab

For those interested, I have posted my review:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/553325/review-musical-paradise-mp-301-mk2-vacuum-tube-integrated-amp#post_7460704


----------



## Monday

THANK YOU SKYLAB!!!  I really enjoy reading your reviews - they have been extremely educational and helpful - so thank you for all your efforts there.
   
  You seem fond of your MingDa - did you have any thoughts on that comparison with the MP301-2?
  edit: just looked at your sig and notice you do not indicate you own the MingDa.
   
  How about this then:  Does the new version of the MP301 change its ranking in you "30 Favorite Tube Amps" listing?


----------



## Skylab

Yeah the Ming Da is a nice amp but I have moved more upmarket for my own amps, so it is gone.  I did add the MP301 mk 2 to my review summary, however.


----------



## gtube

Here are the temperatures I measured from the power transformer and power tubes. The test was done with a room temperature of 25C and the amp had been turned on for three hours with all stock tubes (6J8P + 6L6).
   
  Power transformer:

   
  The hottest spot of the 6L6 power tube


----------



## wotts

Having read a few threads on tubes and tube amps, I think I may have a bad power tube. I turned on the amp and let it warm up for a moment before a listening session and before I started the music, I put my headphones on. I heard a crackling/fuzzy noise, so I looked over the tubes, and one seems to have a blue glow flowing around the plates. I shut it off, and have yet to try a different power tube set to be sure. I need to find another pair for testing, but while I'm digging through boxes to find some, does anyone have any suggestions?
   
  Thanks,
  Tim


----------



## gtube

Hi Wotts,
  Please send me an email at info at musicalparadise.ca. I will help you.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry


----------



## wotts

Will do. Thank you!

  
  Quote: 





gtube said:


> Hi Wotts,
> Please send me an email at info at musicalparadise.ca. I will help you.
> 
> Thanks,
> Garry


----------



## Rodz

it's actually not too bad.the amp has more than enough volume to reach my normal levels in the small room i have...i wouldn't call the sound dark at all tho,it's rather bright actually with pretty good mids and highs,lots of detail but a bit messy and out of control and more than a little bit bass shy when driven by the MP 301MkII...but honestly i've found that the amp sounds that way on my near field desktop monitors too,it's as clean as can be with great dynamics.but still lacking bass and warmth...i've got the stock tubes back in it now and am letting it warm up to see if my changing tubes around introduced that...
  Quote: 





gtube said:


> Hi Rodz,
> Thanks for sharing your experience. How is the sound when using the MP-301 MK2 to drive the 84db CM1? I guess it is a bit dark and lazy since the CM1 is power hungry.
> 
> Thanks,
> Garry


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





gtube said:


> Also, tube amps cannot be powered on without connecting headphones or speakers. Users must connect their headphones and/or speakers to the tube amp all the time when the amp is on, otherwise, the output transformers will be heat up and damaged in a few hours. If you don't connect speakers to the MP-301 MK2, please make sure the switch is always on the headphone position, and the headphone is always connected when the amp is on.
> 
> Thanks,
> Garry


 

 I wonder if this is common with output transformer coupled design. Is it safe to remove the power tubes and let the 6SJ7 to run-in by themselves?
  
  Quote: 





raul said:


> *BEWARE OF THE POWER CORD!*
> If yours is like mine, rather thin and very soft/flexible, I advise to immediately replace it with a good quality one!
> Mine shorted today...


 

  
  The Volex 17604 should be a good replacement for not much money. If willing to spend more, for $99 the Shunyata Venom 3 may be all you need. I found a small but noticable improvement with changing to audio grade PC.


----------



## wotts

I've been eyeballing the Emotiva power cords myself. I just can't bring myself to spend the money for a Furutech or WireWorld.

  
  Quote: 





greeni said:


> The Volex 17604 should be a good replacement for not much money. If willing to spend more, for $99 the Shunyata Venom 3 may be all you need. I found a small but noticable improvement with changing to audio grade PC.


 

 Also, I've been wondering if anyone has been using T1s with this amp. Mine sound good, but I think a lower Z (300ohm-sih) set of cans might shine better...HD800s? Also, I've been looking at a pair of B&W CM5s to run off the amp. Anyone with an opinion on that?


----------



## gtube

Hi Greeni,
 Yes, any output transformer coupled tube amp must run with a proper load. The load can be either a high power resistor, headphone, or speakers.
   
  The load impedance must match the output transfomer secondary impedance too, but don't need to be 100%. A few ohms difference is acceptable, eg. 4-8ohm.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry
    
  
  Quote: 





greeni said:


> I wonder if this is common with output transformer coupled design. Is it safe to remove the power tubes and let the 6SJ7 to run-in by themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> The Volex 17604 should be a good replacement for not much money. If willing to spend more, for $99 the Shunyata Venom 3 may be all you need. I found a small but noticable improvement with changing to audio grade PC.


----------



## gtube

Hi Wotts,
  I would recommend B&W 685 and 684 for the MK2. CM seies have a more complex crossover which lowers the efficiency quite a lot.
   
  Thanks,
  Garry

  
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> I've been eyeballing the Emotiva power cords myself. I just can't bring myself to spend the money for a Furutech or WireWorld.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I've been wondering if anyone has been using T1s with this amp. Mine sound good, but I think a lower Z (300ohm-sih) set of cans might shine better...HD800s? Also, I've been looking at a pair of B&W CM5s to run off the amp. Anyone with an opinion on that?


----------



## eclein

Power Cord info for anybody looking to replace the one that came with the MK2, I have been using these $30 Pangea AC-14 cords on a bunch of gear that I have and love them, yep they change the sound for the better and they won't drain your bank account. Here is a link to Audio Advisor who sells the 1 Meter one for $30ish, check it out:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14&variation=1


----------



## Rockyhill

Does this A/C cord have a positive effect on our hum sensitivity?
  
  Quote: 





eclein said:


> Power Cord info for anybody looking to replace the one that came with the MK2, I have been using these $30 Pangea AC-14 cords on a bunch of gear that I have and love them, yep they change the sound for the better and they won't drain your bank account. Here is a link to Audio Advisor who sells the 1 Meter one for $30ish, check it out:
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14&variation=1


----------



## BmWr75

Am listening to this amp with Audeze LCD-2s now, ~40 ohm orthodynamic cans.  There is a little hum at normal listening levels, but acceptable to me, because you can't hear it but in the quietest passages of songs.  The hum from Stevie Ray's tube guitar amp on Tin Pan Alley is more noticeable.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The LCDs sound very good with this amp.


----------



## ETAHL

More tubes are in.
  The Russian 6P3S-E power tubes are inexpensive and excellent. Easily outperform the stock tubes with improved sound stage and texture.
  A pair of metal can RCA JAN CRC-6SJ7 also arrived. Lower hum and not as mid centric as my other 6SJ7s.  The combo of these tubes works great with my speakers and LCD-2. I am happy with these tubes; I am done tube rolling and enjoying the amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





greeni said:


> I wonder if this is common with output transformer coupled design. Is it safe to remove the power tubes and let the 6SJ7 to run-in by themselves?


 
   
  Absolutely not safe.


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





eclein said:


> Power Cord info for anybody looking to replace the one that came with the MK2, I have been using these $30 Pangea AC-14 cords on a bunch of gear that I have and love them, yep they change the sound for the better and they won't drain your bank account. Here is a link to Audio Advisor who sells the 1 Meter one for $30ish, check it out:
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14&variation=1


 

 Yes I also recommend the Pangea in this site before. The AC-9 is really the one designed for amp use but for low watt output the AC-14 may do the job fine, plus some people found the AC-9 to be stiff and more difficult to use. If getting the AC-9 it is best to buy at least 2 meter length. Shorter length are more difficult to accomodate.
  
  Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Does this A/C cord have a positive effect on our hum sensitivity?


 

  
  Many premium PC manufactures claim more silent background because of shielding, etc., and I do find this to be the case. However the hum with MP301 does not come from the AC but the 6SJ7 tubes so premium cords has minimal effect on the hum.
   
  In fact, some of these cords like the Shunyata Venom 3 are made to CE standard and are sealed and hard wired. Unless you are willing to cut it open and perform an operation you cannot try the wire exchange mod for this amp. For those wanting to try some good cords and still do the wire exchange mod the DIY route may suite them. There are some like VH audio flavour series which has separate wire for sale, and you can buy some wattgate plugs and make a cord yourself. The particular VH I mentioned are well received but needs quite some run-in time, but certainly you can find others that suit you.
   
  I think Skylab suggestion of retaining the stock 6SJ7 is spot on. Changing to Tung-Sol improves on all "hardcore" audiophile aspects but then lost the tone, the sound becomes too dark. So far I am not motivated to tamper with safety standard and do the wire exchange mod. I found the hum of the stock tubes was reduced with run-in, hopefully could continue to do so.


----------



## Raul

Quote: 





etahl said:


> More tubes are in.
> The Russian 6P3S-E power tubes are inexpensive and excellent. Easily outperform the stock tubes with improved sound stage and texture.
> A pair of metal can RCA JAN CRC-6SJ7 also arrived. Lower hum and not as mid centric as my other 6SJ7s.  The combo of these tubes works great with my speakers and LCD-2. I am happy with these tubes; I am done tube rolling and enjoying the amp.


 

 This is exactly my tubes set up since the day the amp arrived. I am happy with these and I never tried other tubes. Decisely better than the stock and no hum.


----------



## ETAHL

Any one try a set of EF800 tubes with adapters?


----------



## Rockyhill

I've got 6P3S-E on order. Also getting a pair of Infinity RSb this weekend, already refoamed and new xover caps.


----------



## eclein

Hey Skylab you were right, when I put the stock tubes that came with the amp, the front ones back in along with the replacement Mullard EL34 power tubes the hum totally disappeared and now I have a nice quiet very dynamic amplifier. Now we're cookin!!!!!


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, it seems fussy with NOS driver tubes, but no issue with vintage power tubes, that I found.


----------



## wotts

I'm going to have to try some of the different driver tubes I have to see who they do. I recently aquired a huge lot of tubes (2000+) and there were a number of compatible driver tubes I found. I am curious to see what kind of results I get. The majority are metal...is it possible they are better shielded and some of the hum is isolated?


----------



## Greeni

Quote:


etahl said:


> More tubes are in.
> The Russian 6P3S-E power tubes are inexpensive and excellent. Easily outperform the stock tubes with improved sound stage and texture.
> A pair of metal can RCA JAN CRC-6SJ7 also arrived. Lower hum and not as mid centric as my other 6SJ7s.  The combo of these tubes works great with my speakers and LCD-2. I am happy with these tubes; I am done tube rolling and enjoying the amp.


 

 Are these RCA JAN different from other RCAs, as Rockyhill's RCA hums quite some, or it is a hit and miss game ?


----------



## eclein

The ones that I took out were RCA-Silver I guess metal 6SJ7's even though the hum wasn't as pronounced as some earlier combinations it was still there so I took out the RCA's and put back the stock and no hum at all, the only way I can tell if the amp is on now is from the glow of the tubes.
  When I first set the amp up I left it stock for a day before swapping tubes and that first night the hum was loud and when I swapped tubes I changed all 4 and probably should have gone 2 and 2 as it would have been more helpful in solving the problem, but it turns out just swapping out the the power tubes would have fixed the hum. 
   
  So the way I have it now there is no hum or any noise for that matter, quiet as can be: 2 Tubes in the front-driver tubes-stayed with stock ones that shipped with unit. 2 Tubes in the back- Power Tubes - Mullard re-issue EL34 replacing the ones that shipped with unit. The amp sounds great to me, I don't hear this "Dark sound" folks are writing about though and its probably impossible to describe but if someone wants to take a stab at it I'd appreciate it because I don't hear it I hear a very dynamic with well defined low end sound.
   
  Now that the hum is gone I'm a truly happy camper!!!


----------



## BmWr75

Grado cans are pretty bright aren't they?  At least the two pairs I heard seemed to be that way.  This amp will tame bright highs with the right tubes installed.  I think it will only sound dark with cans that have rolled off highs to begin with.


----------



## eclein

Oh, are they referring to headphone sound? Mine is the wrong version for Grados because I didn't know there were 2 different ones so I haven't hooked headphones up yet.
  Thanks BmWr75!!!


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





eclein said:


> ...The amp sounds great to me, I don't hear this "Dark sound" folks are writing about though and its probably impossible to describe but if someone wants to take a stab at it I'd appreciate it because I don't hear it I hear a very dynamic with well defined low end sound.


 

 No it is not the amp, or the phone that is "dark". It is terminology...the best way I could describe it is to draw on Sam Telling of Stereophile. Sam referred that good single-ended triode has this "inner light" quality to its sound and a sweet tone that is euphronic. I think the MP301 with the stock 6SJ7 tubes share this. This is not to say that the MP301 is as good as those expensive amps, but it share a slice of this quality. Now I found changing to Tung-Sol 6SJ7 while improving on many aspects lost this "inner light" quality and tone, and make the amp sound darker than I like. This is a not an issue of rolled off treble either. We are trying to describe "sound" and as such the same terminology may meant different things to each of us.


----------



## eclein

Thanks Greeni for taking a minute and explaining that, I understand now its not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing its just a description of a sound type....I get it.


----------



## Rockyhill

Infinity's obtained Sunday. Amazing sound with this amp (stock power and Tung-Sol 6SD7GT) Very mild hum. No hum with cans.
  Russian 6P3S-E arrived Monday. Hard to say how much improvement over the stock since I'm still getting acquainted to the RSb's (shame on me for changing 2 variables at the same time). Also going back and forth with the stock drivers. But they look cool, esp with the *blue glow*... Will post pics later.
   
  Loving this amp now. 
   
  Has anyone connected a Grant TubeDAC-09 to this?
  
  Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> I've got 6P3S-E on order. Also getting a pair of Infinity RSb this weekend, already refoamed and new xover caps.


----------



## eclein

I use a Grant Fidelity DAC-09 with mine, sounds great. 
   
  I must say that with mine now being extremely quiet and the sound this little baby puts out, I'm really enjoying this amp, no regrets about the decision to get MK2 for me...all good here.


----------



## irishsammy

So Garry's probably the best one to answer this...
   
  How far can we go with the power tubes?  (I'm not touching the stock preamp tubes with a 10 meter cattle prod.)  If EL34's are OK, how about KT77's?  I put some JJ 77's in my last EL34 integrated and they were pretty awesome.


----------



## Skylab

I don't know about KT77's, but 6550/KT88's are a definite no no, per Garry.


----------



## BmWr75

I've always thought KT-77s were a direct replacement for EL-34s.  They are in my Dynaco ST70 anyway.  I'm running KT-66s in my MKII with no problems.


----------



## irishsammy

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I've always thought KT-77s were a direct replacement for EL-34s.  They are in my Dynaco ST70 anyway.  I'm running KT-66s in my MKII with no problems.


 


  That's what I was thinking.  From my understanding, they're basically EL34's on steroids.  But since the EL34's are already the top end of the spectrum, I wonder if the 77's will be too much.


----------



## jacko2x

Depending on the B+ and load impedance it may be possible to run the 77's if one can determine the underlying circuit and make the necessary measurements and see if it falls within the operating voltage of the 77s.
   
  Also, if one can determine or find out from musical paradise the B+ and load impedance of the trafos and bias on the unit you can use the table here to see if the following tubes can be swapped in: http://tubelab.com/AssemblyManualSimple_SE/TubesAndTransformers_SSE.htm
   
  OR, a mod can be done to allow the bias to be selectable via a resistor swap (if the wattage on the bias is known).
   
  Cap mods on the amp would also be nice. Now if someone could open up theirs and draw the circuit, that would be great for us modders to take the unit's performance further.
   
  Been following this thread since I'm currently sourcing parts to build the Simple SE and was hoping to get a cheap SE amp to have a reference to compare it with.


----------



## gtube

KT77 should be OK according to the specs. I don’t have it on hand, so I cannot guarantee. If you really want to try it, please monitor the power transformer temperature for at least 3 hours. If it is not too hot (less than 65C) after 3 hours, using KT77 should be fine.


----------



## irishsammy

Quote: 





gtube said:


> KT77 should be OK according to the specs. I don’t have it on hand, so I cannot guarantee. If you really want to try it, please monitor the power transformer temperature for at least 3 hours. If it is not too hot (less than 65C) after 3 hours, using KT77 should be fine.


 


  Now that's cool.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks, Garry.


----------



## eclein

I was able to replace the pre-amp tubes with excellent results. Skylab had some Mullard 6SK7GT's I saw he was selling and he told me they were correct size for the pre-amp section and he got them after he sent his review unit back so he didn't know if they were a noise problem or not, well I'm very happy to report that so far with about 4 hours on them they are very quiet and sound excellent. I'm not sure where he got them, but he did mention they were hard to find so if anyone runs across them you might consider checking them out, they sound wonderful in my MP301MK2. Thanks Skylab!!!!


----------



## wotts

My b22 is on the bench while I install the new front panels and the Vahalla is at the girlfriend's place, so I have been giving this amp a little more love lately. Made me fall in love with my T-1s all over again. Diana Krall is just...wow...
   
   
   
  Thanks for the heads-up on the 6SK7GTs eclein. I'll look into those. I might have some around here...I came by a huge lot of tubes...still sorting through them.


----------



## eclein

wotts-No problem I hope you find some, so this little Amp with its fun 6.5Watts X 2 is just getting better each day. I think I'm firmly entrenched here...lol


----------



## BmWr75

Guess this amp is no longer the FOTM..........no posts in this thread in 1.5+ months.


----------



## BmWr75

I've never had a hum issue with this amp, but have been using it with 600 ohm Beyer cans.
   
  Just for grins I decided to see if the amp hums with high sensitivity speakers. Bottom-line - this specific amp is not hum prone with speakers.

 To summarize my tube comparisons:

 Amp = Musical Paradise MKII
 Source = iPod playing Apple Lossless files via an HRT iStreamer DAC
 Speakers = Klispch KLF-20s (100 dB efficient) with Crites titanium tweeters and Crites crossovers

 Note: the hum heard on two sets of tubes below is not dependent on volume setting. The barely audible hum is the same an min and max volume.

 Sylvania 6SK7GT - most hum of any tubes tried, but would not be noticeable from >3' away from the speakers and acceptable to my ears.

 Tung-Sol 6SK7GT - less hum than Sylvanias. Sounded good.

 Red can 5693 - no hum, noticeably more gain that the other tubes tried, sound great driving the speakers.

 JAN Phillips 6SJ7WGT - no hum. These are the best sounding tubes I've found when using 600 ohm headphones. Was not as impressed with them driving the speakers, but still sounded good.


----------



## dgcrane

I on the other hand had a really hard time with the MKII. Unfortunately I sent it back... twice. Once to get the switch put in by Garry and then once after when I was still not happy with the amount of hum I was getting running both stock and NOS tubes. I could not seem to get a combo of tubes which made me happy even with my HD650's which are 250 ohm I believe. Grado's were out of the question......
   
  Garry agreed to accept the return (I paid return shipping costs twice plus the paypal charges for him to return the money to me.....)
   
  I ended up buying a mkI from Big Bill since and could not be happier with it. There is no hum and sounds wonderful IMO.
   
  Darren
  dgcrane


----------



## micmacmo

Quote: 





dgcrane said:


> I ended up buying a mkI from Big Bill since and could not be happier with it. There is no hum and sounds wonderful IMO.
> 
> Darren
> dgcrane


 

 I've avoided the temptation to move from the Mk1 to the Mk2 myself. How do you feel the two compared (hum aside)? And what phones did you pair them with?  
   
  (BTW, nice avatar!)


----------



## dgcrane

I have a relatively modest speaker setup, so my intention when I ordered the mkII was for it to be a headphone amp. I ran the MKII with HF-2's, HD650s and Darth Beyers 80 ohms. I could not get past the hum with any of those headphones. I play at relatively low volume and during quieter passages, the hum was truly downright annoying to me. Through my mission bookshelves, the sound was great and no hum could be heard. I find the MKII more visually appealing and love the fact that the speaker jack is in the front. Other then those two things, for me the MKI wins hands down.

Darren


----------



## BmWr75

When my MKII came, one channel was wired incorrectly at the transformer (IIRC).  Gary told me what to check and sure enough the problem was a he stated it to be.  All I had to do was disconnect 2 plug-in wires and reverse them.  Other than that, it has been a fine amp at an entry level price.
   
  It does hum more than I like with LCD-2s and I would be unhappy with it if that were the only amp/hp combo I owned.


----------



## dgcrane

I simply wanted something entry levelish for my nightstand that would be a good pairing with my headphones which I love  The MK1 seems to be a better solution for my needs. I also have a millet max in my office which is also pretty inexpensive and makes my grados absolutely shine.
   
  Darren


----------



## micmacmo

I'm pretty happy with my MK1 as well. I'm using it to drive k701 and, while I've tried other amps including solid state, I really like this combination. It can be a bit bass-light, but the sense of space and airiness and its deft touch with vocals keep me coming back.


----------



## eclein

My first one was the MK1 which I sold to Big Bill on here and then I got the MK2 and initially had hum isues with speakers regardless of the tube or combination of tubes, after time it lessened and now it is totally and completely gone. I use this with speakers and find it excellent. The MK1 sounded great too but the MK2 just seems to have more balls, maybe its that extra .5 watt!!!!!
   
  I have Mullard reissued EL34's in back and
  real Mullard pre-amp tubes (6SK7GTs) and I have no desire at all to switch anything up right now and doubt that will change any time soon....I love mine!!!!


----------



## micmacmo

Quote: 





eclein said:


> ...I got the MK2 and initially had hum isues with speakers regardless of the tube or combination of tubes, after time it lessened and now it is totally and completely gone...


 

 eclien, any idea why the hum disappeared? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyone else have a similar experience?


----------



## dgcrane

My MKII system burned in for well over 100 hours. I assumed if my hum wasn't gone by then, it was never going away.....
   
  Darren


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





micmacmo said:


> eclien, any idea why the hum disappeared?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 These type of driver tubes sometimes get quieter over time.  Have no idea why......


----------



## eclein

Not sure why but I can say that when I swapped out tubes the first time it was the pre-amp tubes andpower tubes I changed-still had the hum. Put the stock pre-amp tubes back in and hum went away 95%-so stock in front and swapped out the back ones and hum went away. Then as I was convinced it was gone or at least low enough I could tolerate it I talked to Skylab who had gotten these pre-amp Mullards (very hard to find) so I put thos in and even less hun, now its pretty much zero!!!!
  I ran mine in a bit differently though, I would turn it on and play music for maybe an hour or 2 each day and then turn it off. I did that for like a week and a half and the hum decreased and decreased. I would talk to Gary if I was you, he's the designer and very, very helpful...just tell him whats up and he'll work to resolve it...seriously.


----------



## Rockyhill

Things are looking up! Red can RCA 5693 have greatly improved the hum. No idea how many hours are on them prior to arrival here but I'll run them as much as I can and will note any changes. I'm also working on getting the Mullard 6SK7GT's.
   
  I'm now a much happier Maine Man


----------



## eclein

Rockyhill....Gary is very easy to deal with and will do anything he can to help you out so don't be put off about trying to contact him.
   
  When/If you find those tubes please tell us where you got them, I have no clue where to look...LOL


----------



## Rockyhill

I agree Garry is easy to work with. He swapped amps without question. (After I paid $52 to ship original back)
   
  However the symptoms are the same. His reference to the "tiny hum" within centimeters is not accurate. The fact that this is a very sensitive design that allows quiet performance with some tubes and very loud hum with others is frustrating, IMO. The amp with stock tubes should not have audible hum when standing 8 feet away. Rolling tubes to remove/reduce hum is, to me, like being asked by a car manufacturer to switch tires to resolve a squealing issue on a car with a poor suspension design.
   
  Now that I'm on my 5th set of driver tubes I'm somewhat more satisfied. 
   
  I can't imagine that these reports of hum (here and elsewhere) are having a positive effect on his sales. I would think he'd want to correct the cause of the sensitivity so the various forums would be talking about how wonderful this amp is (like the original once "snipped").
   
   
  Just my 2 cents


----------



## Greeni

I found that the hum with my unit was considerably reduced with use. It was still there with efficient phones but much more acceptable. Also the really funny thing is the operating temperature of the amp was reduced with run-in. Nice. 
   
  I would like to hear others' experience with the impedence switch mod, did that reduced the hum and the gain level at the same time ?


----------



## woodsart

Proud owner of the MKII!!! Using Tung Sol Cyro EL34 and just received the Red metal GE 5653.
   
  So far I have tries the Shuguang EL34s, Russian 6n3cEs, of course stock and now the Tong Sol and 5653 red metal.
   
  At this point the stock preamp tubes sound better, however, I assume many hours remain in burning in the 5653 metal tubes.
   
  No hum with any tubes rolled with speakers or cans.....Sennheiser Pro HD-280.
   
  Any comments?
   
  Thanks,
   
  Rob


----------



## woodsart

Quote: 





woodsart said:


> Proud owner of the MKII!!! Using Tung Sol Cyro EL34 and just received the Red metal GE 5653.
> 
> So far I have tries the Shuguang EL34s, Russian 6n3cEs, of course stock and now the Tong Sol and 5653 red metal.
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

The fact is that the 6SJ7 is a finicky tube for audio. The Darkvoice 337, which also uses the 6SJ7 for driver tubes, had similar problems. It is a good sounding tube, but getting a totally quiet pair can be a real challenge.


----------



## Zerogravity1

Hello everyone! Like WoodsArt I am new to HeadFi and just purchased the MK2 amp! I can agree that this amp is finicky with tubes or the transformer needs better isolation? I unfortunately got some bad power tubes and noticed them redplating badly after the 3rd day of use! I did explain to Gary I would be using these with speakers 80% of the time. I am driving a pair of GR-Research N3 TL floorstanders which this amp drives wonderfully at more then tolerable levels. I also use a pair of SLS 6.5 monitors, both speakers operate at 8 ohms and Thankfuly, do not exhibit any hum whatsoever!
I was hearing an unacceptable hum with my headphones and I had to turn my volume up at least 25% to drown out the hum. After replacing the bad power tubes and driver tubes with RCA CRC 5693, this reduced the hum to very faint levels and I no longer hear hum during subtle music. 
 My headphones are The Speaker Company HD Pro7, they are old and I have no idea what ohms or sensitivity they are? I only purchased them for late nights so I wouldn't wake up the kids! I am sure these can't compete with many of the Audiophile cans recommended on HeadFi. I am looking for a good brand $200.00 that will match well with this amp, if anyone has some recommendations I am open minded.
I did think about the Sen HD 280 Pro like Rob above but Gary directed me to higher impedance types. I think with this amp, it's the luck of the draw concerning the bothersome hum with Headphones? 


 Overall I am very impressed with the MK2. The sound quality is excellent and this amp exhibits plenty of detail. It is on the warm side and definitely has a tubey sound signature, but this is a good thing. Installing the RCA 5693 and Tung Sol EL34 surely tilted it to the neutral or bright side! At this amps price point and the sound quality it exhibits I would have to say it's near the top for any high fidelity audio component best buy. This also allows anyone who was interested in quality tube amplification to try it, who otherwise couldn't afford it!


----------



## BmWr75

600 ohm Beyerdynamic cans match well with this amp.  DT770s can sometimes be found for ~$200.


----------



## micmacmo

I've had surprisingly good success with AKG K701 paired with the original MP-301. At a meet I attended, the MK2 (stock tubes, I believe) sounded even better with the same phones. Terrific soundstage and good detail. Might not be my first choice for rock or electronic but very good with jazz and acoustic music. K701, too, can be found used for under $200.


----------



## eclein

Greeni---I noticed the temperature change also, much better now, zero hum, much lower temp- its still warm warm but not as scary hot as it was at first. I was totally afraid to listen to it with headphones at first because I thought if I fell asleep and the CD ended and the amp sat there idling I might have a problem so I didn't use it more than a couple hours a day the first week, then a little more as it broke in and sounded better, the hum started to fade and the temp started to drop. 
   I totally agree with the above post saying "its like buying a new car and having to try different tires"....the  hum thing in my opinion was a huge miss, how did he not hear that, it was not faint it was loud _LOUD HUM...now its gone and it seemed to all relate tp break-in but it was a definite problem. I was extremely lucky and received the amp as a gift from a friend on the web and I am so very grateful, I also got an email from a reviewer who asked me if I could put him in touch with Gary so he could review the amp so that should be coming out sometime soon......I forget the name of the web mag....I'll find out and let you guys know so you can be on the lookout...........bottom line- patience paid off big time for me!!!
    The amps sound is fantastic and that"s all that counts!!!
  EDIT--I forgot to add I'm using it with HiFiMan HE-5LE Orthodynamic Headphones and it sounds great....One happy old dude here~


----------



## Zerogravity1

Thank You for the Headphone suggestions! Ed you know I would love to have those Orthos, those are nice! I was looking at the Beyer DT 770s, 880s and 990s as well as the AKG! Tough choice as I know all these brands are great! AKG supposedly have very good mids and the Beyers have a little more range at the extremes, but only from  what I read which could mean anything? I do Like the amp and sound quality is decent however some issues with Gary as the power tubes were bad and I am still waiting for a long time to send me the EL34, but it has taken so long I have ordered several pairs of tubes including JJ KT77 which sound great and Rob was good enough to give me a pair of extra Tung Sol EL34B. All tubes and amp run cooler then expected and even the transformer gets to 50C max with the KT77 the tube itself is 118C after 3 hours! I also noticed that all my tubes labels are backwards because of the way the guide pin slot on tube socket is positoned? Its sounds great but theres a little more then sound and features and the way a component looks is somewhat important! I dont know Gary's service and willingness to correct things were non existant and this is what  bothered me a little! However He could probably do much better if he worked on those issues! Im not entirely sure I want to deal with him anylonger, his price is good and sound quality is good but other then that your own your own and thats not to reassuring especially if your going to spend a lot of money! I was cautious and emailed him a few times before purchasing this amp! He assure me he had a demo unit that he inspected himself and was working excellent. Immediately after getting the amp and 2 days later the power tubes had severe red plating and they were defective. The amp didnt sound as good after this which Gary argued otherwise? I replaced the power tubes with the ones Woodsart gave me and the amp sounded like the day I got it and a bit better! I had to take all these actions myself as I havent had any help from Gary other then he sent the EL34 tubes to replace the defective stock tubes, which has taken almost a month. I also had severe hum with headphones, but replacing the Driver tubes to the RCA Reds helped quite a bit! I was also thinking that perhaps the stock driver tubes were defective as well, but who knows?  at one point Gary told me to be patient and suggested I use the amp for speakers only? At that point I was irrate as he shouldnt have advertised a headphone amp to begin with! I just couldnt believe what I was hearing! Luckily the amp is cheap and sounds great with speakers or I would have filed a dispute with the credit card company and returned his amp the cheapest way possible!


----------



## BmWr75

Dang zerogravity1.......can I buy a paragraph break?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  That post was hard to read.


----------



## Zerogravity1

As you so eloquently stated Ed, its the sound quality that matters most! I do agree its fantastic for the cost and worth the troubles! Im just nit picking more then anything I suppose, but the MK2 is far better then the more costly Chinese amplifiers that sound much worse and need to be reworked after a short while! I thought about purchasing and Audioromy FU29 amplifier for a few hundred more, but so little is known about those and the MK2 sounds superb with the N3 speakers! I would like to see the Pre amp section redesigned so that a better selection of tubes can be use as it seems the Stock driver tubes are extremely limited! Maybe I have it all wrong with Gary and he didnt understand me or me him?  I read his customer service was supposed to be excellent!


----------



## Zerogravity1

Just ranting while multi-tasking , sorry! I do feel much better though! Yes you can Half price! Lol


----------



## Zerogravity1

Has anyone had the RCA 5693 driver tubes long enough, to notice if they warm up sonically? I would imagine for a 10,000 hour tube, break in will be a lengthy process. I do love these driver tubes, they are very clean and detailed sounding.


----------



## eclein

Zero--I agree with everything you said, if mine was not a gift and I wasn't patient by nature I'd have flipped and sort of did if you read some of my early posts.....Its a headphone site, that bothered me also when he told me that i was like Whatttt!!!!!!!


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





eclein said:


> Zero--I agree with everything you said, if mine was not a gift and I wasn't patient by nature I'd have flipped and sort of did if you read some of my early posts.....Its a headphone site, that bothered me also when he told me that i was like Whatttt!!!!!!!


 


  Mine is headed back. I tried 2 and both had the same hum issue. I even brought it to a friends house (to eliminate the grounding in my house as the cause) and it still hummed there. Maybe burning in the tubes for _another_ 5 months would have helped but my patience ran out. Too bad, it sounded very nice and looked great. It did run hot which was another concern, esp when used in the summer.
   
  For now I'm using the Lepai Tripath 2020A+ (Pretty good sound for $36 shipped). No more hum or excessive heat. Will do serious research and will probably get a replacement tube amp come winter.


----------



## jacko2x

Just purchased some JJ E34L tubes and will be burning them in. Hopefully all goes well.


----------



## Greeni

Quote: 





rockyhill said:


> Mine is headed back. I tried 2 and both had the same hum issue. I even brought it to a friends house (to eliminate the grounding in my house as the cause) and it still hummed there. Maybe burning in the tubes for _another_ 5 months would have helped but my patience ran out. Too bad, it sounded very nice and looked great. It did run hot which was another concern, esp when used in the summer.


 
  The temperature will normalise, the hum will reduce and less bothersome unless using really efficient phones. I tried it with my new KRK KNS 6400 and the hum was essentially non-existent.
   
  It is a pity as otherwise it is a good affordable tube headphone amp with power to spare. It almost make a good MBA case study "How a blatant blemish could escape product design'.  I guess Garry has learned a lot with this Mkii version. I am sure he will hit with future iterations.


----------



## Rockyhill

This will probably be my last post on the subject since I no longer own one. The hit or miss nature of the driver tubes (with respect to hum) is what 'broke the camels back' for me. When I first considered the amp, tube rolling was intended to fine tune the sound quality, not resolve what may be considered a design flaw. Garry has been very accommodating and I appreciate his support. 
   
  If over time I see positive feedback that the hum issues have been resolved I may reconsider but for now I'm looking at other options (Yaqin, Ming Da, Dynaco). Since I am really a speaker user, the extra power of the Dynaco and Yaqin makes sense for my Infinity's (although the MK2 did drive them fine).


----------



## Zerogravity1

Wow I guess this thread has all but died, nothing in 3 months?
   
   
     I just wanted to warn anyone using the JJ KT77 tubes with the MP301 MK2 to be cautious! I tried several sets that went bad? The funny thing is they played without fail for several months with many hours of daily use and they actually sounded fantastic. However after playing them with the amp on for a half hour, one of the channels breaks up and the volume diminishes to and almost unlistenable level? A friend of mine, Robert and a few other who have this amplifier have not had any issues using the Gold Lion KT77, so Im wondering if the bias is different between this particular brand of KT77?
   
   
     Problem could be and issue with the amp? As this is the 3rd set of power tubes that seemed to have gone bad, including the stockers. I have also had 1 set of new 10,000 hour pre amp 5693 tubes seem to be going bad? I couldnt possibly think all these tubes could be defective? Strangest thing as the amp distorts rather loudly with pre amp tubes and then a few days latter when I reinstall them, they play fine? I have no idea whats going on here, although I measured the Tranformer case at 75 degrees C, So it is very hot! It measure this hot regardless of what tubes are used?
   
   
     Gary seems to have no problem taking back the amp and giving me a new model, I just want to be sure its not a problem with the tubes and not end up paying multiple shipping fee's. I live in Miami, so shipping as far as you can go by land isnt cheap! I have already spent a significant amount more on all the tubes that dont seem to work?


----------



## Zerogravity1

On a side note, I rarely get  much hum through the headphones and I listen mostly with my speakers! The hum seems to dissapear after a lengthy break in!


----------



## wotts

Mine blew the 6L6 a few times. Garry sent me a replacement for the first one, and then I bought a 4pc matched set from fleabay. However, I haven't used mine in a while since I'm in the process of moving. It's at the new house. I'll have to get it going and try it out again. I have not tried it using speakers either.
   
  Zerog, what speakers are you using?


----------



## Zerogravity1

Hello Wotts, I am using a pair of bookshelf speakers (SLS monitors) with a sensitivity rating of about 88 db and also GR Research N3 towers which are a TL design and a sensitivity rating of about 91 db rounded! On most occasions I have the volume knob on the amp adjusted to 30% or about the 10:00 position and this gives me a good solid 80 db a little over a meter away! I think it plays loud enough even in decent sized rooms as long as speaker sensitivity is decent! Of course anyone that's looking for party volumes need a more powerful amplifier!


 Were those the stock power tubes that went bad in your Amplifier? My stock power tubes were red plating, so I switched them out and got another pair and I have a glow through the shield but not the big red glowing spots as before, I have no idea if this is normal, however the tubes sound good though!


----------



## wotts

Sounds like those are some nice speakers! I am using Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speakers running off a Pass Labs Aleph 3. When I get moved in, I'll try them on the 301. I have some Polk Audio Monitor 50s I can try as well. I am interested in how the amp does running speakers.
   
   
  Yes, the stock tubes were the ones that went. I don't recall how much they glowed though. It has been quite some time since I used the amp.


----------



## Zerogravity1

The MK2 should work fine with those speakers. I think they have a sensitivity of 89 at 1 watt/1meter! If the room is big, just don't expect concert levels, but for normal listening it will be fine. The Pass Labs amp would be fantastic for the loud stuff anyway.


 Aa far as the Stock Power Tubes going bad, it seems to be common with Gary's Amp, however he has no problem sending out a replacement. He will even deduct the cost of the tubes from any other that you want! With all the issues I experienced, I still think it's a great sounding amp for the money and you will have to spend much more on anything else to get that same quality!


----------



## gtube

Dear M.P. Users,
  Thanks for your great support during the past years. Holiday is coming soon. I wish all of you Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. If you have any question, comment and recommendation. Please let me know. Your voice is important for me to keep improving product quality, sound performance and services. I am quite busy working on a couple of new projects which will be released in the spring of 2012. I hope everthing will be smoth and the breakthroughs can be accomplished on time.
   
   
  Thank you,
  Garry Huang
  Musical Paradise


----------



## BmWr75

Happy Holidays to you too Gary!!
   
  I still have my MKII amp.....it is a keeper as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Zerogravity1

Thank you Gary! I'm sure whatever it is your designing next will be a great improvement, just as you have done in the past!


 Merry Christmas and a very happy and prosperous New Year to you too!


----------



## Kpsingh0

Im interested to know peoples results. I cant quite figure out if the hum issue was solved or how? I am thinking or ordering one and would like to know if i shouldnt. 
  Btw i plan on using it with speakers mostly.


----------



## wotts

From what I've read here, the hum was either inaudible or barely perceptible when listening through speakers. I never got around to hooking mine to speakers as I recently sold it to a co-worker. I loved the amp, but it didn't get much use after I got the HE-6.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





kpsingh0 said:


> Im interested to know peoples results. I cant quite figure out if the hum issue was solved or how? I am thinking or ordering one and would like to know if i shouldnt.
> Btw i plan on using it with speakers mostly.


 

 Hum issue was never completely solved for folks using low impedance cans.  If you use 600 ohm cans, hum should not be an issue, it wasn't for me with Beyerdynamic 600 ohm cans.


----------



## Kpsingh0

Hmm i read n another forum it was an issue with speakers as well. Seems like certin tube fix the problem.


----------



## Terja

Just recently got this amp and have read the woes and wows about it  -- from my view the _wows _far outweigh the woes. I have the version with the internal mini switch for selecting headphone impedance (yes it's in there, lol). Anyway, I'm using this mostly with headphones (Hifiman HE-500s - 38ohm). While experimenting I discovered one thing -- THE ELECTRONIC SOURCE OF THE MUSIC MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN WHETHER THE AMP HUMS OR NOT.
   
  i) Playing lossless tracks from my iPod into the amp via headphones produces no hum or hiss from the amp. It is black as night and quiet - a zero hiss background.
   
  ii) Playing tracks via computer usb/dac or spdif picks up background interference. It is definitely coming from the computer NOT the amplifier. I even tried different DACs with essentially the same result. Somehow or other the amplifier is very sensitive and picks up electronic interference - I don't know why. With the HE-500s it is barely noticeable, you can just hear it when there is no music playing. With Grados (SR80s - 32ohm) the hum is more distinct - but it's funny - the Grados sound just fantastic with the amp. The mini switch is initially set for low impedance cans and it does reduce the interference.
   
  I do not think this hum/hiss is mostly to do with tubes but rather with the electronic source of the music. I wasn't that surprised when I came across BmWr75's post -- see highlight below. Granted there are other factors, eg 600ohm headphones, but I think it has something to do with the initial source.
   
  Anyway, just my 0.02 -- it may be worth considering the initial source as contributory to distortion issues and not the amp itself.
   
  All that aside this is a fantastic amp, looks great too. The fact that I can drive a Hifiman phone with it is a real bonus. It sounds very detailed and warm (oh dang! maybe I'm just feeling the heat from the tubes). I've rolled some Groove Tubes power tubes in there and they sound much better than stock. Oh yeah, another thing, that mini internal switch in there is like a mini EQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (don't know whether it's worth cracking the base open for though!).
   
   
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I've never had a hum issue with this amp, but have been using it with 600 ohm Beyer cans.
> 
> Just for grins I decided to see if the amp hums with high sensitivity speakers. Bottom-line - this specific amp is not hum prone with speakers.
> 
> ...


----------



## Terja

_80 - 90% of the problem solved!_
   
  I had a laptop cooler I was running via one of the USB ports - I unplugged it and now the HE-500s are dead quiet via the amplifier. I can't believe how much distortion that cooler was adding to my usb channel - shikes! I also tested the Grados and they still pick up some distortion but it is greatly reduced. Grados just don't seem to mesh well with the MP-301 but the irony lies in how great they sound out of it. Anyways, there is something to cleaning up the audio input you feed into this amp. It seems to need a very clean channel, or perhaps looked at another way, it is extremely revealing, unabashedly so. So there ... a few of my pebbles in a row!


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## Terja

_last 20 - 10% of the problem eliminated!_
   
  The last bit had to do with the ground line I was feeding into the amp. Turns out it's not as clean as I thought it was.  Lol .. without it the amp is dead quiet while playing via usb/dac. My Grado SR80i's are finally quiet when matched with the amp and they sound really really good; not as good as the HE-500s but for a seventh of the cost they sound amazing.
   
  This is a great amp, its unfortunate that out of the box it does present a challenge to get it to play nice with all kinds of set ups. For example if you were matching it with say an iPod or similar source you would not encounter problems at all. Also higher impedance cans seem an ideal match to the amp and not so much low impedance cans like mine. I'm just glad I've solved the set match-up and can finally sit back, enjoy and take it all in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! If you have the amp or are thinking of getting it (a fantastic medium powerful tube amp at an affordable price - what's not to like) don't give up on it. There are clues about solving problems if you come across them. Maybe tubes could be the issue for you but they were not for me.


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## soundoff88

I didn't see anyone mention about measuring the noise at the speaker terminals. Did I missed it?


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## Terja

There were some users complaining of hum/noise while using speakers. Do a search of the thread.
   
  Just recently I tried replacing the stock driver tubes with NOS Philips 6SJ7. These tubes produced a faint hum at the speaker terminal via my headphones which is how I've been using the amp (with resistors). I do not think the hum would be as noticeable through regular speaker as opposed to headphones. I have since replaced them with the stock tubes which do not produce hum/noise. It seems tubes may also be part of the equation, depending on what you use. The stock driver tubes are well-matched to the amp, some users found this to be true too and recommended keeping them in.


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## soundoff88

numerous posts mentioned noise with speakers but no one measured it. it is an easy thing to do. I do own this gear thus the question.


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## Sniper1

This amp was recently revised to MK3.
  The hum noise problem seems to have been mostly corrected. However, you need to plug in with 24ohm or + phones.
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54
  BTW, pre-orders gets 10% off and we possibly have up to mid- or end-august 2012 to benefit the discount.
   
_Here is the list of improvements:_

 _The power transformer is upgraded. The EI core is 30% larger to lower the working temperature. The potting material is upgraded to higher grade epoxy to improve the strength and heat resistance. More precise user configurable input voltages: 110V, 120V, 220V, 240V._
 _Add KT88 and 6550 power tube support._
 _The case construction is improved to be stronger and much easier to access when service or upgrade is needed. Since the steel is thicker, and the case is a bit wider, the background hum is much lower than the MK2 version when using low impedance headphones. It is hardly noticeable now._
 _The circuit is improved to further lower distortion and increase the stability when using some lower quality power tubes._
 _High quality screw-in connectors are used on the PCB boards, so the PCB can be removed much easier without soldering when service or upgrade is required._
 _Output transformers are improved with better construction to improve low frequency response._
 _Total power supply filtering capacitance is increased by 60uf to further lower background noise._


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## popa

Garry Huang who designs these amps, mentioned in a correspondence to me that Skylab will be reviewing this amp also.

 I own three of his amps and I am looking forward to this review by Skylab.


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## mrarroyo

Darn, so tempted to buy. I have listened to some of the Musical Paradise units and they sound very nice at a good price point. Sure hope this further improves the sound quality.


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## wotts

I can totally understand that. My coworker bought my MK2 because he just loved the sound and I miss it. I'd love to give the new amp a listen.


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## Rockyhill

I'm looking forward to reviews of the MK3, especially in light of my poor experience with the MK2.


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## Sniper1

I should receive my MK3 (+EL34's) either today or next week. Will also get next week my 1st decent pair of closed headphones; ATH-M50s 
However this will be my 1st tube amplifier. And the only other headphone amp i have to compare it to is the PA2V2. But i also have 18ohms earbuds; Klipsch image S4... That will make an interesting test to assesss background hum.


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## Zerogravity1

I have had this amp just about a year now! I measured the noise from the speaker with my SPL meter, pushed almost up against the drivers and got a reading of -6 db. When I press my ear up against the speaker, I can barely hear anything and this is when music is paused and the volume of the amp set at its highest level! The noise with Headphones, is just unacceptable and the volume needs to raised quite a bit just to drown it out! I certainly hope Gary's upgraded amp eliminates this issue, however, it shouldnt have been in this amp in the first place and certainly more R&D was needed before the MK2s release.


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## Raser

Quote: 





sniper1 said:


> I should receive my MK3 (+EL34's) either today or next week. Will also get next week my 1st decent pair of closed headphones; ATH-M50s
> However this will be my 1st tube amplifier. And the only other headphone amp i have to compare it to is the PA2V2. But i also have 18ohms earbuds; Klipsch image S4... That will make an interesting test to assesss background hum.


 
  Please post your impressions. The headphone section is propably good (at least at the mk2 version it was good). And i think that this one could pair well with my full range speakers


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## lbhajdu

I do not believe I have this amp however I have an amp which looks remarkably close to it. I won this amp at a head-fi N.Y. meet a few years ago for about ~$100 and I think it was just about the best deal I ever got. It came with 6P13P power tubes in the power section which I have replaced with 6p13s (got some $3/each on e-bay). The 6P13P was red plating but the 6p13s does not.  And it uses 6J8P for the input tube though I replaced this with a Philips 6SJ7. The amp does look very close to the earlier models of this amp right down to having the same CLC filter inductor in the middle.  Pictures can be found here (not my own pictures):
   
http://195.84.101.101/~goranl/projects/nad_stereo/tubeamp/
   
  However I do not in fact believe it to be the same amp. I know this because the [size=10.5pt]MP-301 states [/size]on its website that it has zero negative feedback and I know that my amp does have feedback, which is applied by taking signal from the output transformer via a 47K resistor and feeding it to the 2k cathode bias resistor of the 6sj7 / 6J8.
   
  I use this mostly as a speaker amp for my Fostex 6” speakers (Tekton Design) of 93dB/w sensitivity.  The only way 60Hz hum can be heard is if you put your ear one foot away from the speaker. However I do, do this when I am sitting at my computer desk and turn the volume down really low. This is one of the few amps that still sound good when you turn down the volume.  I prefer this amp to my 6SJ7 -> 300B amp which sounds much darker. The 6SJ7 -> 300B amp is however dead quiet. This is most likely because even though it uses the same input tube (6SJ7) it has DC rectified filaments.  It seems a fool's errand to try and keep swapping tubes until you find one where the filament sits just perfectly to cancel the 60Hz buzz when you can just use DC. I am not sure which percentage of the buzz comes from the heater as compared to ripple on the high voltage lines. I am working on other things at the moment but one day I might build myself an external power supply for this amp, if correctly done I am confident it can be as quiet as the grave.  It would need a four pin plug carrying:
   
  +330VDC@300mA (tube HV)
  +3.15VDC@6A (fill +)
  -3.15VDC@6A (fill -)
  GND
   
  This is at the moment a pipe dream given other projects on my plate.
   
  An actual test I will be trying is to replace the input tube 6SJ7 with an EF86. I have seen adapters for this however they were pricy. So I have ordered a 9 pin socket and an 8 pin tube base on e-bay and I’ll make my own adapter. I got an e-mail from the socket vender saying it’s going to take 4 weeks for them to ship to me. It may have more buzz because my understanding is that the EF86 has more gain, but I guess I’ll see when it arrives.
   
  Last summer I swapped this amp out for a class-d amp because of heat. I’ll most likely do that again this year and forget about it for a few months.
   
  Sorry that this is getting a bit diy,
  Leve


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## Dashie

Hi! 
     If there's anyone who can help me, i'm considering between purchasing the mp-301 MK 3 standard version ($299 USD + shipping) and the mp-301 deluxe version (339+49.5= $388.5 USD). According to Garry, the standard version is the last one available in the warehouse. I'm a little worried about this fact and that it isn't a discounted version. Also, the fact that the deluxe and standard version is close to $100 apart is kinda iffy as well.

 Not sure whether the deluxe version is over-priced now or whether the standard version can possibly be a lemon product (a returned defective good or smething?) . I do not mean to be overly critical or paranoid about this but it's my first purchase of a tube  amp overseas and the fact that the amp is supposed to be a <=$300 product + shipping fees for returns can be expensive makes me kinda hesitant to make the move despite all the good reviews.

 Oh and the deluxe version's price keeps increasing! (yesterday it was $330, a moment ago $335 and now $339.....)
 
 Please, any help would be much appreciated!


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## BmWr75

See the answers you already got here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/553325/review-musical-paradise-mp-301-mk2-vacuum-tube-integrated-amp/15#post_9431658
   
  Go for the newer model.


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## Dashie

Just one more point in addition to the above: The price of the amp keeps changing.  Has anyone bought the mk3 deluxe version below $300?


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## LiqTenExp

still hoping they will ship the 2013 Deluxe version shortly...


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## hojomojo96

How does the MK-3 version, at $380, compare to other amps at a similar price range?


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## LiqTenExp

I have my 2013 Deluxe and I am loving it. Plenty of power, no noise issues to report with all my full size headphones. I have upgraded the tubes and am running KT88 with some Slyvania 6SJ7GT (thanks Rob). I am impressed with it for the money. It looks well built and sounds pretty good. The dual inputs is nice (have the turntable to one and the dac on the other). Had it now for a few months with no negatives to report.


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## hojomojo96

liqtenexp said:


> I have my 2013 Deluxe and I am loving it. Plenty of power, no noise issues to report with all my full size headphones. I have upgraded the tubes and am running KT88 with some Slyvania 6SJ7GT (thanks Rob). I am impressed with it for the money. It looks well built and sounds pretty good. The dual inputs is nice (have the turntable to one and the dac on the other). Had it now for a few months with no negatives to report.


 
  
 How do the LCD-2's sound out of it? I'm going to be running Mad Dogs, so its a somewhat similar SS


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## LiqTenExp

I enjoy them very much out of it. The stock power tubes are fine but I suggest upgrading the driver tubes to something else (to your preferred sound). I went with the KT88 power tubes for firm bold bottom end that your normally get with KT88.


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## Dashie

Hey there, 
                i got the mp 301-mk3 deluxe edtn around the same time as you, but seem to be a noisy background hiss when pairing with my 32ohm Samson sr850. I've upgraded the stock pre-amp tubes to a pair of NOS RCA 6SJ7 and GE 6SJ7s but there doesn't seem to be any improvements in both the hissing noise and also any discernable sound changes like bass improvements. Also, the amp is anything but warm to my ears and if anything, appears to sharpen the highs and reduce the bass! Am wondering whether it is possible that I've got an older model instead of the deluxe edtn (there's no indication of "deluxe" anywhere on the amp, which makes me worried) or whether something is actually wrong with the amp? Pls advise, thanks!


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## Sniper1

To everyone who owns an MP-301 or to anyone hesitating because of that background buzz issue; you must absolutely order the 20$ 75-ohm adapter that Garry sells in the "cables" section of the Musical Paradise website.
 I just plugged mine in the MP301 mk3 original 2012 version with my 38 ohm ATH-M50 and behold... noise/hum is totally gone ! only pure music to my ears ! fantastic...
 Please note however that the adapter is female 3.5mm and then male 6.5mm, so your headphones cable must terminate in 3.5mm.
  
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=66


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