# What is ERS Paper?



## M0T0XGUY

I've (tried) to read through the huge thread about ERS Paper, but I still don't have a clear idea about what it is. Just from observations it seems as though it's some sort of insulator, but I'm probably mistaken. Anyways, if anyone could clarify this for me, that would be great.


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## Claus-DK

a quick google:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...lpointsers.htm

http://www.partsconnexion.com/audiogon_pix/ERS_MAIN.htm


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## aluren

what if someone wipes their ass with ers paper? will there be benefits??


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## Claus-DK

I think it a bit coarse for that use, your'll have to ask patrick that question..


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## cotdt

no one has yet to give an explanation as to how this thing works.


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## gz76

In simplest terms, it reduces electrical interference.


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## Welly Wu

SCAM. That is the simplest word to describe ERS paper.


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## cotdt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Welly Wu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SCAM. That is the simplest word to describe ERS paper._

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The measurements show that nongrounded shielding works wonders:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141880

 It's shielding, but it also seems to be doing something else. It changes the frequency response. I'm not sure what exactly it's doing, or how it's doing it.


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## Welly Wu

Replicate the results and present it to a scientific community. I wonder how ERS paper will be received.


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## Patrick82

It's a fact that Carbon Fiber reduces EMI. You can buy a panel made from Carbon Fiber but how can you fit that inside the chassis? So instead you put small pieces of Carbon Fibers into a cloth which can be bent and easily cut. The end result is ERS Paper.

 The components inside the chassis generate EMI by themselves which interferes with another component inside the same chassis. It's going to reduce the performance of the system.


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## gz76

/me waits for Welly Wu to bite back...


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## cotdt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Welly Wu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Replicate the results and present it to a scientific community. I wonder how ERS paper will be received._

 

Sure I can do that in a couple weeks. What about this is so hard to beleive though? It's true that nobody knows exactly how it works but we do know that shielding reduces noise and changes the sound signature to some degree.


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## Patrick82

Why do they have shielded interconnects if it doesn't affect the sound? It's pretty obvious that everything else that carry an electric signal need to be shielded too. What is inside the chassis? Circuit board or magic?


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## rsaavedra

I think some paper pulp mixed with metal dust/splinters (copper or aluminium) would be a waaaaay less expensive ERS paper, possibly better.


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rsaavedra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think some paper pulp mixed with metal dust/splinters (copper or aluminium) would be a waaaaay less expensive ERS paper, possibly better._

 

Putting a sheet of ERS Paper outside the aluminum casing still improves the sound...


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## Cid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Putting a sheet of ERS Paper outside the aluminum casing still improves the sound..._

 

No. It's all in your head.


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## AlanY

I read somewhere that ERS paper is the same stuff that was developed to help components pass the US military/NSA's TEMPEST certification:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEMPEST


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## Welly Wu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cotdt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure I can do that in a couple weeks. What about this is so hard to beleive though? It's true that nobody knows exactly how it works but we do know that shielding reduces noise and changes the sound signature to some degree._

 

But, how do we know that ERS is more effective compared to less expensive and more conventional shielding?


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## colonelkernel8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No. It's all in your head._

 

bingo. Patrick is a text book case of the "placebo" effect. Its really gotten to the point that it is sad. I am being totally honest.


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## cotdt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Welly Wu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But, how do we know that ERS is more effective compared to less expensive and more conventional shielding?_

 

well i don't think anyone is making the claim that ERS paper is more effective. it's just easier to apply, so while it's overpriced you pay for the price of convenience.


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## Claus-DK

Be kind to Patrick, he's a pioneer in our field..


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Welly Wu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But, how do we know that ERS is more effective compared to less expensive and more conventional shielding?_

 

Anything is more effective if it doesn't tie into the ground signal of the system. That's why people report better sound when they remove the shield of their cables. The shield is like a carpet where you invite the noise into your system.

 It also seems that the better the shield is the bigger the EM field becomes around it. ERS Paper removes just a little bit and the field isn't that big, 2 cm max (when I had a gap of less than 1 cm I got worse sound). That's why it's so good to put inside the chassis where the components are close to each other. 

 When I put the ERS Paper 2+ cm from the component it got better in every way, no weaknesses. Just pure resolution.
 It's like mud vs dry sand. ERS Paper removes all the water from the mud so you can hear each sand grain separately. It's great for trance music.
 I saw Batman Begins TruHD movie, the steam sounds at the end sounded amazing, each grain had attack and decay but they didn't blend together. The high frequency sounds of the Batmobile sounded great too.


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## Uncle Erik

RF meters do exist. Here's a place that sells them:

http://www.lessemf.com/

 It is quite easy to load ERS paper with RF from an amateur radio or even a cell phone. Then you can use the meter to see whether or not it blocks the RF. Not terribly different than seeing how well a piece of paper blocks the light. Light is something of an electromagnetic wave, itself.

 Also, an RF meter would be handy to see whether or not there really is RF inside a chassis or if it is coming from an external source.

 Maybe the RF meters aren't audiophile grade, but people who understand RF stake their lives on the measurements. RF can hurt or kill you. I find it curious that the ERS paper manufacturer chooses marketspeak over actual tests. Other manufacturers of RF shielding use testing to see if their products work.

 Not the forbidden DBT testing, either. A RF meter testing emissions with and without shielding tells you precisely what the attenuation is.


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## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's like mud vs dry sand. ERS Paper removes all the water from the mud so you can hear each sand grain separately. It's great for trance music._

 

I would say ERS paper is more like delivery vs digiorno's pizza, see you think its delivery, but its digiornos! Really delivery pizza is better because it has better cheese (the highs), better tomato sauce (the mids), and better crust (the lows). The ERS uncovers the pizza like its being taken straight out of the oven and freshly baked which isnt quite what digiornos is?

 Get it!?!

 neither do i, because this analogy is _not a real analogy_


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Uncle Erik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RF meters do exist. Here's a place that sells them:

http://www.lessemf.com/

 It is quite easy to load ERS paper with RF from an amateur radio or even a cell phone. Then you can use the meter to see whether or not it blocks the RF. Not terribly different than seeing how well a piece of paper blocks the light. Light is something of an electromagnetic wave, itself.

 Also, an RF meter would be handy to see whether or not there really is RF inside a chassis or if it is coming from an external source.

 Maybe the RF meters aren't audiophile grade, but people who understand RF stake their lives on the measurements. RF can hurt or kill you. I find it curious that the ERS paper manufacturer chooses marketspeak over actual tests. Other manufacturers of RF shielding use testing to see if their products work.

 Not the forbidden DBT testing, either. A RF meter testing emissions with and without shielding tells you precisely what the attenuation is._

 

ERS Paper seems to be as effective as a shielded tent: http://www.hollandshielding.com/fara...eldedtents.php



http://www.partsconnexion.com/audiogon_pix/ERS_MAIN.htm

 ~SPECIFICATIONS~ 
 10 Mhz- 49
 100 Mhz- 48
 200 Mhz- 62
 400 Mhz- 53
 800 Mhz- 54
 900 Mhz-50
 501 Ghz- 49 2.4 Ghz- 53 (802.11B)
 3.5 Ghz- 54
 5.8 Ghz- 57 (802.11A)
 7.5 Ghz- 61
 10 Ghz- 66
 17 Ghz- 55


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## mlhm5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *M0T0XGUY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've (tried) to read through the huge thread about ERS Paper, but I still don't have a clear idea about what it is. Just from observations it seems as though it's some sort of insulator, but I'm probably mistaken. Anyways, if anyone could clarify this for me, that would be great._

 

If you want insulated cable, buy insulated cable. There is no argument that it works. 

 ERS paper is a product where its ability to perform must be taken on faith from pseudo-scientists, not schooled in engineering, unable to read block diagrams whose proffered opinions often victimize the benighted.


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## fkclo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Putting a sheet of ERS Paper outside the aluminum casing still improves the sound..._

 

This make me recall an interesting incident I had last year, when the base station of my B&O wireless home phone was placed quite close to my head-fi gear (a Consonance Cyber 20 to be exact). Occassionally I heard hiss and interference and I spent hours trying to locate the problem - changing power cords, adding power conditioning...etc but the problem still persisted. Finally I placed a A4 size ERS sheet right in front of the base station and guess what, the hiss / interference faded away instantly. Then instead of putting it in front of the base station, I form a soft cylinder ouf the ERS sheet and encase the tubes of the Cyber 20, and all back to normal - the background is dead quiet again and music stands out. So, in some way, ERS worked - at least in my case. Of course, the ultimate solution was to re-organise all my wireless gears - far away from my tubes. 

 Since then, I put the ERS paper on top of my CD player (right above the drive) as recommended by the seller. I didn't hear anything drastic. But I did spend more money stocking up 1 more sheet, and a roll of 1 inch ERS strip - taking it more as a band-aid to my components. 

 It may not be magical, but I do think it is a very effective EMF / RF shield. 

 F. Lo


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## mlhm5

He, Patrick, as he is know here, posted the same ERS Paper post on the AV forums Hi-End thread. It is so funny and sad, that you cannot help feel pity for the guy.

 Read it.

 ERS Paper with Nordost Valhalla power cords - no weaknesses!


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## 883dave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlhm5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want insulated cable, buy insulated cable. There is no argument that it works. 

 ERS paper is a product where its ability to perform must be taken on faith from pseudo-scientists, not schooled in engineering, unable to read block diagrams whose proffered opinions often victimize the benighted._

 

And the Troll strikes again


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## mlhm5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *883dave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the Troll strikes again_

 

ERS paper is precisely why many think the "high-end" cable market is all bunk. 

 All claims surrounding this product, which BTW are made by people with no technical credentials, are pure snake oil and are completely unsupportable by any laboratory measurements or by ABX subjective testing, or any other observable means subject to scientific study.


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## threEchelon

mlhm5, how come you can't debunk fkclo's experience? You seem to ignore anyone's personal experience and wave around your lofty science card.

 Science isn't always right. That's why things are called "theories".


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## threEchelon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patrick82* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_~SPECIFICATIONS~ 
 10 Mhz- 49
 100 Mhz- 48
 200 Mhz- 62
 400 Mhz- 53
 800 Mhz- 54
 900 Mhz-50
 501 Ghz- 49 2.4 Ghz- 53 (802.11B)
 3.5 Ghz- 54
 5.8 Ghz- 57 (802.11A)
 7.5 Ghz- 61
 10 Ghz- 66
 17 Ghz- 55_

 

I just want to point out that the audio spectrum is well below 1Mhz. These attenuation ratings are for frequencies 10mhz and above.


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## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlhm5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ERS paper is precisely why many think the "high-end" cable market is all bunk. 

 All claims surrounding this product, which BTW are made by people with no technical credentials, are pure snake oil and are completely unsupportable by any laboratory measurements or by ABX subjective testing, or any other observable means subject to scientific study._

 

Why are you so obesessed with being a troll and advancing your particular brand of absolutism in every thread (routinely violating the DBT-free rule)? Why must you constantly thread krap? Regardless of whether you have some valid points, you make them in a most annoying, insulting, and over the top manner, clearly designed to inflame people. Why do you feel compelled to act in this manner? Frankly, it appears you either need some therapy, or emotionally you're just a child and need to grow up. Until you do, why you don't you just leave this forum and grow elsewhere. There are plenty of smart and courteous folks on this forum who are able to advance your particular point of view without behaving like you do.


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## Claus-DK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlhm5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ERS paper is precisely why many think the "high-end" cable market is all bunk. 

 All claims surrounding this product, which BTW are made by people with no technical credentials, are pure snake oil and are completely unsupportable by any laboratory measurements or by ABX subjective testing, or any other observable means subject to scientific study._

 

mlhm: have you tried using ERS-paper yourself ??? 

 Or are you just ignorant and know everything better than anybody else ??

 If you actually have tried it, then by all means, do express your opinion, otherwise shhhh..


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## Claus-DK

people with visions and ideas are the backbone of science.....
 Maybe Noel dorobek was a little off but how about...

 Copernicus was considered as being mad...
 Jesus was crucified..
 Jeanne d'arc was burned..
 Socrates was forced to drink poison..

 all because they had ideas an insight that did not please the common people...


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## VicAjax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *threEchelon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Science isn't always right. That's why things are called "theories"._

 

i'm not taking mlhm5's side here, per se, simply because of his antagonistic demeanor...

 but the second part your statement above is simply wrong. "theory" is the term awarded only to the most robustly supported and highly developed ideas in science. there must be mountains of evidence before anything can be called a "theory" in science. the theory of gravity, for instance. or even more well-understood and supported is the theory of evolution.

 as for the first part of your statement... science isn't always right, but it is very good at self-correcting.


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## Jon L

"With Power comes Responsibility."

 The problem with ERS paper IME is that "works" too well. If used in larger quantities than needed, closer to components than necessary, it will suck out too much life and sparkle from the music. 

 Currently, I can only tolerate about a square inch of ERS paper, taped a few centimeters away from my DAC chip. Just like anything in audio, it's just another tool and spice to be used sparingly to arrive at the final stew...


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## Patrick82

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"With Power comes Responsibility."

 The problem with ERS paper IME is that "works" too well. If used in larger quantities than needed, closer to components than necessary, it will suck out too much life and sparkle from the music. 

 Currently, I can only tolerate about a square inch of ERS paper, taped a few centimeters away from my DAC chip. Just like anything in audio, it's just another tool and spice to be used sparingly to arrive at the final stew..._

 

If more ERS Paper makes it worse then there are problems elsewhere in the system. If the cables are muddy then the edginess from EMI will compensate for it...


*0) *I have a 2 meter Nordost Valhalla for my computer which I have modded from 3 conductors per signal to 2 conductors. Synergy was great. 

*1)* But then I wrapped half of it with ERS Paper. Bass sounded crazy heavy, it was like a new power cord. The increase in heaviness was about 50% and the reduction of detail was about 5%, but the problem was it sounded way too warm and kind of dull since the detail wasn't emphasized. But the more I listened the better it sounded, it became addicting.

*2)* Then I disconnected a conductor from the Valhalla power cord so it was half the thickness. It became unbearably bright but had more detail than ever before, the improvement was HUGE. After an hour I couldn't stand the brightness anymore. It went from one extreme to another just by modding the Valhalla!

*3) *Then I wrapped the 2nd half of the Valhalla with ERS Paper and now it was warm again, it's little dull because the emphasized distinctness is gone. But there is still more low-level detail. Transients are sandier than before. *The unbearable brightness had transformed into sand!! *It sounds amazing. 
 1 conductor Valhalla wrapped in ERS Paper is better than 2 conductors without any ERS.


*0)** Nude 2 conductor Valhalla:* Little edgy. Perfect heaviness.
*1)** Wrapped half of Valhalla with ERS:* Too heavy bass, too warm. Illusion of dullness. Attack and decay sound cut off because everything is heavier.
*2) **Modded Valhalla to half size:* Unbearably bright and thin, transients sound broken. More detail. The edgy whiteness gives illusion of blacker background. Attack and decay are no longer cut off. New world of detail has opened up. Everything sounds way too thin, but scary black.
*3)** Wrapped other half of Valhalla with ERS:* Warm and sandy transients. No brightness, but no fake black background either. Same detail as above but not emphasized. Longer attack and decay than ever! Same heaviness as nude 2 conductor Valhalla but with more bass information, detail and warmth.


 Conclusion: Thinner cable wrapped in ERS has more resolution than thicker cable without ERS. Bass heaviness ends up being the same!


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