# Astell & Kern Kann MAX



## AnalogandDigital (May 12, 2022)

Just arrived
Even more powerful with 15 Vrms ... 👊👊👊

https://www.astellnkern.com/product/product_detail.jsp?productNo=133

Who's going for one ?
I'm upgrading from my Kann Alpha


----------



## padawan25

Funny with all the posted pictures …….not one of the bottom.

What and how many inputs are there ?


----------



## AnalogandDigital

padawan25 said:


> Funny with all the posted pictures …….not one of the bottom.
> 
> What and how many inputs are there ?


No clue but I suppose USB-C and Micro-SD as on the Kann Alpha


----------



## tb303 (Jun 3, 2022)

Hi, what are your thoughts around sound quality and sound signature? I already own both Kann Cube and Kann Alpha and wondering if there is any noticeable difference making it a considerable upgrade in my case?


----------



## silvergolden

I think I might want to try this new one... Have not given it much thought.


----------



## JJF_888

Comparisons to original Kann?


----------



## AnalogandDigital

tb303 said:


> Hi, what are your thoughts around sound quality and sound signature? I already own both Kann Cube and Kann Alpha and wondering if there is any noticeable difference making it a considerable upgrade in my case?


No clue since I haven't tried it myself
How much will it sound different from the Kann Alpha ?
2 x ES9068AS vs 4 x ES9038Q2M ... 🤔


----------



## chaotic_angel

tb303 said:


> Hi, what are your thoughts around sound quality and sound signature? I already own both Kann Cube and Kann Alpha and wondering if there is any noticeable difference making it a considerable upgrade in my case?


Hi do you find Cube to Alpha and improvement in terms of tonality and musicality?
I found the Cube is too clinical and "dry"


----------



## tb303 (Jun 7, 2022)

chaotic_angel said:


> Hi do you find Cube to Alpha and improvement in terms of tonality and musicality?
> I found the Cube is too clinical and "dry"


Hi, it all boils down to the combination of your headphones characteristic, headphones cable, DAC filter, DAP gain level and whether or not you are on balanced output. Already spent hours trying all permutations and results of my non-scientific testing lead me to the conclusion that when both play using the same DAC filter they sound very similar. To me Cube sounds better in terms of soundstage, positioning and etc, however depending on headphones, DAC filter, output and so on you can find them sounding better with various headphones and music genre. I prefer Cube for sound quality, but Alpha for its battery life and dimensions. Hope the new Kann Max will inherit all DAC filters from Cube (unfortunately, Alpha has a number of missing ones, including the one I like best) and the battery life and dimensions from Alpha. Folks tend to be saying that these DAC filters don't contribute much to the specific of sound signature, however to me these are the game changer. In terms of musicality and tonality of Kann Cube to me, it sounds more than ok when paired with open back ZMF Aeolus, copper balanced cable, mid gain and default DAC filter.


----------



## tb303

...another question is how the new Kann MAX compares with Fiio M17???


----------



## Gymboy

tb303 said:


> ...another question is how the new Kann MAX compares with Fiio M17???


I wonder too, can it compete to M17 regarding SQ?

Currently rocking M17 and leaving me speechless every time over and over again, that power, that fidelity, details, boldness, stage, details...  Lows like a 🚚


----------



## Pow3lley

My Kann Max landed today, first impressions are excellent, seems to have a bit more width to the soundstage than my Kann Cube. Vocals are very clear and it is easy to follow individual instruments within the soundscapes it creates, I have Beyerdynamic T5 gen 3 over ears on a balanced cable and Shure SE846’s Dsd recordings sound especially clear.


----------



## chaotic_angel

Pow3lley said:


> My Kann Max landed today, first impressions are excellent, seems to have a bit more width to the soundstage than my Kann Cube. Vocals are very clear and it is easy to follow individual instruments within the soundscapes it creates, I have Beyerdynamic T5 gen 3 over ears on a balanced cable and Shure SE846’s Dsd recordings sound especially clear.


do you find it is more power than cube?


----------



## Pow3lley

chaotic_angel said:


> do you find it is more power than cube?


Yes it is more powerful, on high gain with the Shure 846 on the Cube I normally listen around 80, whereas on the Max I tend to have the volume around 72, although I tend to believe this is due to the wider perceived soundstage and clarity, it is easier to follow individual instruments and vocals appear even clearer in my opinion even on dense tracks. You could say I’m very pleased with it.


----------



## Gymboy

Very weird there are not any real reviews to be found online for Kann Max 🤔  M17 had first day when it came on market. Are people slowly being pulled away from Astell?


----------



## tb303

Pow3lley said:


> My Kann Max landed today, first impressions are excellent, seems to have a bit more width to the soundstage than my Kann Cube. Vocals are very clear and it is easy to follow individual instruments within the soundscapes it creates, I have Beyerdynamic T5 gen 3 over ears on a balanced cable and Shure SE846’s Dsd recordings sound especially clear.


Can you let me know what DAC filters are available on the menu? Tks


----------



## Pow3lley

tb303 said:


> Can you let me know what DAC filters are available on the menu? Tks


----------



## lramirez1959

Nice ! I just ordered mine. I think the lack of reviews is due to the fact that it is still on pre-order, at least in most vendors I know,


----------



## Ben86 (Jun 19, 2022)

Which CPU, how much RAM and which Android version is in Kann MAX?


----------



## gadus

Did anyone else get this and want to share?
There is not much information and reviews about it.


----------



## jjss

Officially Kann Max priced cheaper then SE200 !!! I already have the 200, but very tempted to get the Max as well !!!


----------



## Gymboy (Jun 24, 2022)

jjss said:


> Officially Kann Max priced cheaper then SE200 !!! I already have the 200, but very tempted to get the Max as well !!!


Used M17  is same money.. 🤔


----------



## KPzypher

Is this going to be clunky to use like all other AK DAPs?


----------



## morndewey

KMax just delivered to me. I can post some impressions after while. Charging it now. 
Fits well in the hand. Neither too large nor too heavy. Lighter than I thought it would be.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

morndewey said:


> KMax just delivered to me. I can post some impressions after while. Charging it now.
> Fits well in the hand. Neither too large nor too heavy. Lighter than I thought it would be.


Oh nice 
Yes keep us posted and congrats !


----------



## morndewey (Jun 24, 2022)

I’ve owned the following A&K daps, in addition to KMax (now): SR25, SA700, SE200. Save for KM, I have none of these three in my possession for comparison.
SR25, my first A&K dap, impressed me as a bit lackluster sonically.
SA700 was very unique (for me) as it was the brightest, most revealing dap I’ve owned. I wish I had this back.
SE200 had nice versatility tween akm and ess sides.
All three beautifully constructed.
KMax has good heft and fits comfortably in the hand. Seems like sa700 dimensions but a bit thicker.
Truly portable. I have no case on it yet. Hoping Dignis makes one.
Bottom edges, typical of a&k, are not quite sharp.
Love having 2.5 & 4.4 sockets.
Screen is a trifle too small. I prefer se200 screen size. Resolution is good.
Amp gain adjustment is available in top pull down menu, four stages.
I listened to VE Ely briefly in super gain at about 50 volume and my ears were not shattered or even close.
I recall dx300 gain adjustments being more pronounced or affecting volume more strongly.
I do not stream and have no interest in doing so.
Top power button feels a little flimsy.
Volume knob is big enough for my fingers, unlike se200 which know was too small, recessed. There is loose play between volume clicks, but the click is clearly felt.
Bottom of KM has sd card slot and usb socket only. SD card is slightly recessed from bottom panel, ie it does not protrude at all like dx240 did (ugh).
KMax gets warm to the touch on high gain, volume 74, 16/44 file. By no means hot.
Sound wise, it strikes me as middle ground between the two dac options on se200—more layered than akm side, more dynamic than ess side, kind of the best of both perhaps. I’ll certainly need more time evaluating sound.
Just some quick impressions. Hope it helps

Add: I am hearing no background hiss  with VE Ely nor Penon Legend. 
I hear background hiss on Hiby R6 2020 while listening to Penon Legend


----------



## AnalogandDigital

morndewey said:


> I’ve owned the following A&K daps, in addition to KMax (now): SR25, SA700, SE200. Save for KM, I have none of these three in my possession for comparison.
> SR25, my first A&K dap, impressed me as a bit lackluster sonically.
> SA700 was very unique (for me) as it was the brightest, most revealing dap I’ve owned. I wish I had this back.
> SE200 had nice versatility tween akm and ess sides.
> ...


Definitely would love to hear the Kann MAX 
Still have the Kann Alpha here 
I like the shape a lot and they sound good 
My intention was to upgrade to a iBasso DX320 but not in a rush at all


----------



## jjss

morndewey said:


> I’ve owned the following A&K daps, in addition to KMax (now): SR25, SA700, SE200. Save for KM, I have none of these three in my possession for comparison.
> SR25, my first A&K dap, impressed me as a bit lackluster sonically.
> SA700 was very unique (for me) as it was the brightest, most revealing dap I’ve owned. I wish I had this back.
> SE200 had nice versatility tween akm and ess sides.
> ...


Its good you've owned se200. In your 1st impression listening do you have a chance to see what dac filters on km resemble most to the "sharp roll off" filter of the akm dac on the se200 ??

TIA ..


----------



## morndewey

jjss said:


> Its good you've owned se200. In your 1st impression listening do you have a chance to see what dac filters on km resemble most to the "sharp roll off" filter of the akm dac on the se200 ??
> 
> TIA ..


Oh man those filters mystify me as in I can barely hear a difference, se200 or KMax. Sorry.


----------



## tb303 (Jun 26, 2022)

morndewey said:


> Oh man those filters mystify me as in I can barely hear a difference, se200 or KMax. Sorry.


I was also initially thinking the difference is minimal, however it ultimately became my way of tweaking sound without using equalizer (that often negatively impacts the quality of sound reproduction). Not all DAC filters are great to be honest and you will probably end up switching between 2 or 3. To help you with chosing the right one, just focus on either low, mid or high frequency first and listen to it paying attention to instrument positioning, soundstage, details and so on. Once you are done, go through other frequencies: bass, treble and whatever else. At this stage I was taking notes about my sound impressions of the filer and then I changed filter to another one, yet again going through frequencies, taking notes about my impressions. Time consuming, but this is how I selected my best DAC filter on Kann Cube and Alpha. When you get used to the sound signature, just try again going through all filters in a few days just so you are sure you are using the best sounding one. When listening on a proper cans, use mid gain at least, as low gain may not always deliver the soundstage and render details you want to hear. Enjoy.


----------



## morndewey

tb303 said:


> I was also initially thinking the difference is minimal, however it ultimately became my way of tweaking sound without using equalizer (that often negatively impacts the quality of sound reproduction). Not all DAC filters are great and you will probably end up switching between 2 or 3. To help you with chosing the right one, just focus on either low, mid or high frequency and listen to if paying attention to instrument positioning, soundstage, details and so on. Once you are done, go through bass, treble and so on. This is how I selected my best DAC filter. When you get used to it, just try again all filters again to double check you are using the best one. When listening via proper cans, use mid gain at least, as low gain may not always deliver the soundstage and details you want to hear. Enjoy.


Hey thanks for the guidance on that. I’ll definitely experiment!


----------



## jjss

I listen to vocals a lot esp jazz vocals and found that the AKM on se200 is somewhat tuned less clinical than the ess counterpart on the 200! And when using the AKM sharp roll-off filter it gives to my ears a more dynamically vibrant vocals! Esp when a singer sings with more gradual volumes: from say soft progressively to louder with a finer granularity of loudness! At a lower singing loudness volumes you can feel a singer whispers. Such performances is the kind of vocals I'm going after, all the way from recordings to dac to amp to HP/IEM selection and of course the fine tuning of gains along the chain to give me the desired result. The aforesaid filter somewhat gives a an approximation of such sound / listening experience!


----------



## Nails

I’ve had my Cube for 3 years now and still think it’s great.  I’m tempted to upgrade though and looking at Kann Max or maybe SP2000T, has anyone compared these two or compared SP2000T to the Cube?


----------



## gadus

Ben86 said:


> Which CPU, how much RAM and which Android version is in Kann MAX?


Joins the question,
Looking forward to getting my kann max soon, hope the bet is worth it...


----------



## morndewey

KMax has “crashed” two times now.
While adjusting gain levels during music playback player loses all memory of sd card music library and automatically re-scans from scratch. Time consuming and irritating. Not sure what’s going on


----------



## Gymboy

morndewey said:


> KMax has “crashed” two times now.
> While adjusting gain levels during music playback player loses all memory of sd card music library and automatically re-scans from scratch. Time consuming and irritating. Not sure what’s going on


Try updating and factory reset. This is new device, software surely has some room for updates, hopefully AK will release them quickly..


----------



## morndewey

Gymboy said:


> Try updating and factory reset. This is new device, software surely has some room for updates, hopefully AK will release them quickly..


No updates available, latest firmware. 
I can do factory reset but I haven’t altered it from factory condition, ie installed nothing.


----------



## Gymboy

morndewey said:


> No updates available, latest firmware.
> I can do factory reset but I haven’t altered it from factory condition, ie installed nothing.


I know what you mean, see what app you have installed last, try uninstalling, restarting and installing again.


----------



## morndewey

Gymboy said:


> I know what you mean, see what app you have installed last, try uninstalling, restarting and installing again.


That’s just it, I haven’t installed any apps. I do my listening strictly from sd card.


----------



## Gymboy

😤... Email to AK.. new device with that fault is annoying I believe, my M17 is like a rock and M15 was trouble less..


----------



## morndewey (Jun 26, 2022)

I take it back—
Audible hiss from KMax paired with all-BA iem Penon Legend.
19 ohm impedance.


----------



## morndewey

Anyone know if sd card is formattible within A&K devices? I see no options for such in settings. Thanks


----------



## Nails

Ummm, before reading of this issue with the Kann max, I read every post on the SP2KT discussion and its got a couple of issues too, maybe I’ll hold off for a while.  I’m sure AK will sort these out soon.

Try a message to https://www.head-fi.org/members/jasonnyc.479210/
Jason is an Astell and Kern representative on this forum


----------



## Kennyaudiophile

I'm using SP2000T and QA390 now, Kann Max seems to be the balance of them. Is it good enough for HD820?
Anyone can compare the Max to SP2000T? Thanks!


----------



## morndewey

After error checking my sd card last night KMax played without any card read/library crashes. Hopefully that’s all it was.


----------



## Nails

Great news


----------



## morndewey

Nails said:


> Great news


Thanks for rootin’ for me. 
Yeah listened a few hours today, no more library crashes. Must’ve been the card. Strange cuz I took it directly from another A&K player in which there were no problems. 

Btw, KMax sounds marvelous. 
To me it’s rather reference tuned, and by that I mean largely uncolored, revealing, certainly not warm, while possessing impressive dynamics. Although I can get ample warmth out of it depending on iem/cables. 
The best thing is it sounds both well-bodied and fleet—instruments are spatially delineated and lively with a solid foundation underneath. It sounds like your listening to something whole, connected, rooted, and musical, scintillating. Not much of a quantitative description but it’s what I got (so far). 
Curious to know if KAlpha sounds anything like this?


----------



## Nails

You’re welcome morndewey and good to hear your comments about sq.l with the Max.   I certainly prefer detail to warm and as you mention, I have several different iem and hp cables Ive been using, to improve my listening experience.  I’ve found 8 strand silver crystal cable to be really nice with Shure 535s on the Cube, with more hi frequency detail than my Andromedas using the same cable.
Anyway I have no really good reason to upgrade its just this new flashy gear thats so tempting to try out


----------



## Pow3lley

morndewey said:


> Thanks for rootin’ for me.
> Yeah listened a few hours today, no more library crashes. Must’ve been the card. Strange cuz I took it directly from another A&K player in which there were no problems.
> 
> Btw, KMax sounds marvelous.
> ...


I agree, I find there are details more noticeable on tracks that I know well that i hadn’t really noticed before, I loved the Cube  but the Max just seems slightly better all round, most friends who have had a listen to mine can’t believe the detail, one of whom is a musician. The size of it for the power and sound quality it kicks out, I’m sure it will get some rave reviews.


----------



## tb303

Pow3lley said:


> I agree, I find there are details more noticeable on tracks that I know well that i hadn’t really noticed before, I loved the Cube  but the Max just seems slightly better all round, most friends who have had a listen to mine can’t believe the detail, one of whom is a musician. The size of it for the power and sound quality it kicks out, I’m sure it will get some rave reviews.


What about soundstage? I was happy with Cube, but then bought Alpha looking for an upgrade, but it hasn't impressed me at all. I consider Alpha simply a worse sounding DAP than Cube.


----------



## Pow3lley (Jun 28, 2022)

tb303 said:


> What about soundstage? I was happy with Cube, but then bought Alpha looking for an upgrade, but it hasn't impressed me at all. I consider Alpha simply a worse sounding DAP than Cube.


It does appear wider soundstage wise than the cube,, in my opinion, I’ve had my cube for 3 years and l find that the Max seems to have more space and air and individual instruments seem easier to follow, I’ll Do some further listening through both to do some comparison.


----------



## morndewey

Nails said:


> You’re welcome morndewey and good to hear your comments about sq.l with the Max.   I certainly prefer detail to warm and as you mention, I have several different iem and hp cables Ive been using, to improve my listening experience.  I’ve found 8 strand silver crystal cable to be really nice with Shure 535s on the Cube, with more hi frequency detail than my Andromedas using the same cable.
> Anyway I have no really good reason to upgrade its just this new flashy gear thats so tempting to try out


The nice thing about KMax, and this is especially true of sa700 also—cable effects are rather easily discerned. 
SA700 was really ear opening for me. I’d never used a dap as revealing as it before, and cable effects were suddenly so evident to me. KMax clearly continues this capacity and is certainly more refined sounding than sa700.


----------



## Nails

Thanks for the info on KMax guys, I was concerned it might not be much of a SQ upgrade from the Cube but it seems it probably is.  Its also smaller, lighter and cheaper and has more battery life.  I’m certainly steering more towards it now, glad I didn’t go for the Alpha at least.
I really don’t think the tube would get much use if I went to SP2KT, probably just s gimick to me, not sure and I’ve seen reports of only 3 hours battery life which would be a pita.
The only issue I have is that unless I get on a plane I can’t test listen before deciding.  I did that before buying the Cube though so not out of the question really.


----------



## Nails

What’s the wifi like on the KMax?  It’s terrible on the cube


----------



## gadus

I got my kann max yesterday, a very nice device and it seems to be well built, meanwhile I only listened to initial listening, sounds great with clarity and lots of details, it breathed life into some tracks I know and felt I knew these songs again, he delivered them correctly and with Lots of emotion,
But this is just an initial listening ...
Hope to share my impression after listening carefully


----------



## Pow3lley

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...-max-review/&usg=AOvVaw2wpbmPaivFc8ZNxPUmY6zd
First reviews coming in.


----------



## Gymboy

Unfortunately no comparison to other DAPs in that category just general description and opinion.


----------



## gadus

Here are more reviews.
https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/blogs/reviews/astell-kern-kann-max-digital-audio-player-review
https://bloomaudio.com/blogs/articles/astell-kern-kann-max-review


----------



## gadus

Case for kann max for those who do not want to pay 149 dollars for the original ...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MITER-Kann...id=1656611512&sprefix=kann+max,aps,593&sr=8-3


----------



## Gymboy

gadus said:


> Here are more reviews.
> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/blogs/reviews/astell-kern-kann-max-digital-audio-player-review
> https://bloomaudio.com/blogs/articles/astell-kern-kann-max-review


This review is not legit, he was driving Susvara out of 3.5mm, it was sounding good, bass, spacious, just little flatter, and deskop amps 10W+ are being used for that headphone to sing. M17 with DC mode engaged, out of 4.4mm, drives that headphone 80% maybe... my 2 cents.


----------



## gadus

Gymboy said:


> This review is not legit, he was driving Susvara out of 3.5mm, it was sounding good, bass, spacious, just little flatter, and deskop amps are being used for that headphone to sing. M17 with DC mode engaged, out of 4.4mm, drives that headphone 80% maybe... my 2 cents.


Reviews for me this is just information on technical details and some indication of the sound ...
The final determinant is just my ears.
I have a friend with Susvara hoping soon to try the kann max with Sosvara.


----------



## gadus

I wonder why this thread is here, it is no longer suitable for Portable Source Gear threading?
I see that there are the threads of the daps.
Maybe because it has a powerful built-in headphone amplifier?


----------



## morndewey

gadus said:


> Case for kann max for those who do not want to pay 149 dollars for the original ...
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/MITER-Kann-Max-Handmade-Leather/dp/B0B3WZLWQ1/ref=sr_1_3?crid=G78O4RH8M0AW&keywords=kann+max&qid=1656611512&sprefix=kann+max,aps,593&sr=8-3


Good find.
Had a miter for my erstwhile se200. Good fit but didn’t care for the feel. 
I reached out to Dignis via Instagram. Said they have no plans at this point for a KMax case.


----------



## morndewey

gadus said:


> I wonder why this thread is here, it is no longer suitable for Portable Source Gear threading?
> I see that there are the threads of the daps.
> Maybe because it has a powerful built-in headphone amplifier?


I have to wonder if I can hear hissing on my all-BA iem because KMax amp is perhaps too powerful for such even on low setting? Hoping this can be addressed via firmware update without charging sound signature.


----------



## RIGATIO (Jul 1, 2022)

Hi guys, I'm interested in getting the Max as i need a dap which is as small as possible because I'm traveling a lot this year.
Now I'm using the dx320 with amp13 and it's heavenly sounding dap, actually i don't need anything better (it's even too sophisticated in nuances to pay attention when I'm outside) but i need even more subbase rumble and the size of the dx320 is way too much for a pocket.
How would you compare the Max to the others AK players? I had for a long tests sp1000M, sp1000, sp2000T and I liked the sound from them all but they suffered from a bit narrower soundstage in comparison to the dx320. I tried the original Kann Alpha and didn't like the sound much- it was flat and uninspiring even in comparison to my previous dx300. Also how the Max compares to the se200?


----------



## morndewey

RIGATIO said:


> Hi guys, I'm interested in getting the Max as i need a dap which is as small as possible because I'm traveling a lot this year.
> Now I'm using the dx320 with amp13 and it's heavenly sounding dap, actually i don't need anything better (it's even too sophisticated in nuances to pay attention when I'm outside) but i need even more subbase rumble and the size of the dx320 is way too much for a pocket.
> How would you compare the Max to the others AK players? I had for a long tests sp1000M, sp1000, sp2000T and I liked the sound from them all but they suffered from a bit narrower soundstage in comparison to the dx320. I tried the original Kann Alpha and didn't like the sound much- it was flat and uninspiring even in comparison to my previous dx300. Also how the Max compares to the se200?


Hi. I wrote a few impressions in previous posts. I do prefer KMax to se200. Out of the four A&K models I’ve owned I do think KMax sounds best. And it is small and on the thick side.


----------



## subguy812

Joining the group...in the waiting room!


----------



## RIGATIO

Plz, those who already enjoy the MAX, share more impressions! I love reading detailed sound descriptions and comparisons with other daps


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jul 2, 2022)

Here's a review of my buddy Matty about the AK Kann MAX
Just spoke to Matty about his update running the Susvara Balanced on the MAX and he added it in the meantime
So now I'm in trouble ...
.
Yes you read it correct : Susvara driven by the MAX
.
https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/blogs/reviews/astell-kern-kann-max-digital-audio-player-review
.


----------



## subguy812

I am excited to hear it. With the holiday, mine isn't slated to arrive until Friday. Hopefully it will arrive sooner. I still have my N8ii as well and a pile or review DAPS so we will see.


----------



## gadus

AnalogandDigital said:


> Here's a review of my buddy Matty about the AK Kann MAX
> Just spoke to Matty about his update running the Susvara Balanced on the MAX and he added it in the meantime
> So now I'm in trouble ...
> .
> ...


Beautiful review!
Note that this little player drives hd800 and even susvara !!!
And iem's !!!
I must note that this player opened my ie800s for me, the ie800s have never sounded so good, what a stage, detail, emotion, !!!


----------



## Pow3lley

gadus said:


> Beautiful review!
> Note that this little player drives hd800 and even susvara !!!
> And iem's !!!
> I must note that this player opened my ie800s for me, the ie800s have never sounded so good, what a stage, detail, emotion, !!!


I found the same with the Se846, didn’t need the volume as loud as I had previously with the Cube, soundstage and detail even at low levels is tremendous.


----------



## Avenida

RIGATIO said:


> Plz, those who already enjoy the MAX, share more impressions! I love reading detailed sound descriptions and comparisons with other daps


I had a chance to try out the Max for as long as I wanted at my local audio store that had one on stock as a display  

I was really tempted to get it, but felt like it wasn’t a massive improvement over my Alpha which I’ve only had for a year. 

I used 4.4mm balanced with headphones I was super familiar with. The soundstage is much better, noise floor is reduced, bass and sub-bass are more present. It feels like it’s lifted up the Alpha to a more cleaner sound which is analytical and uncompromising. The Max is much faster in the menus as well. You definitely feel the size and weight decrease in a good way. Personally if I had to choose, I would grab an Alpha on sale (they’re about 50% the price of a Max at my local dealer). If you really had the money and liked the sound, the Max is there. It’s just a super different sound, much like the Cube was to the Alpha.


----------



## RIGATIO

Avenida said:


> I had a chance to try out the Max for as long as I wanted at my local audio store that had one on stock as a display
> 
> I was really tempted to get it, but felt like it wasn’t a massive improvement over my Alpha which I’ve only had for a year.
> 
> I used 4.4mm balanced with headphones I was super familiar with. The soundstage is much better, noise floor is reduced, bass and sub-bass are more present. It feels like it’s lifted up the Alpha to a more cleaner sound which is analytical and uncompromising. The Max is much faster in the menus as well. You definitely feel the size and weight decrease in a good way. Personally if I had to choose, I would grab an Alpha on sale (they’re about 50% the price of a Max at my local dealer). If you really had the money and liked the sound, the Max is there. It’s just a super different sound, much like the Cube was to the Alpha.


Thanx! I hope it sounds way better than the Alpha as i wasnt a big fan of the way it sounded. For me the Alpha was flat and uninspiring. I much prefered my former dx300. Now i have the dx320 so the Max has quite a tough fight ahead. But as i mentioned, i could sucrifice a small sq drop for the way smaller size of the device.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Avenida said:


> I had a chance to try out the Max for as long as I wanted at my local audio store that had one on stock as a display
> 
> I was really tempted to get it, but felt like it wasn’t a massive improvement over my Alpha which I’ve only had for a year.
> 
> I used 4.4mm balanced with headphones I was super familiar with. The soundstage is much better, noise floor is reduced, bass and sub-bass are more present. It feels like it’s lifted up the Alpha to a more cleaner sound which is analytical and uncompromising. The Max is much faster in the menus as well. You definitely feel the size and weight decrease in a good way. Personally if I had to choose, I would grab an Alpha on sale (they’re about 50% the price of a Max at my local dealer). If you really had the money and liked the sound, the Max is there. It’s just a super different sound, much like the Cube was to the Alpha.


So reading this I definitely want to hear it 
I have a AK Kann Alpha here 
But maybe time to upgrade ... 🤔


----------



## gadus

The player warms up after an hour of use (both at relatively low volume and in amp low mode) and also when charging, does this happen to you as well?
Is this normal?


----------



## Gymboy

My original Kann was having same issue, especially  with Tidal, after few hours it would shut off by itself. I dont think there is inside some advanced cooling, but there are 4 x DACs plus high output amp ..


----------



## morndewey

gadus said:


> The player warms up after an hour of use (both at relatively low volume and in amp low mode) and also when charging, does this happen to you as well?
> Is this normal?


Yes, happens to my unit also. Warm, yes; hot, no. Never been hot to the touch even high gain, volume 70. Seems normal to me.


----------



## subguy812

Looks like my delivery day may be bumped up a day and will arrive Thursday.


----------



## Avenida

RIGATIO said:


> Thanx! I hope it sounds way better than the Alpha as i wasnt a big fan of the way it sounded. For me the Alpha was flat and uninspiring. I much prefered my former dx300. Now i have the dx320 so the Max has quite a tough fight ahead. But as i mentioned, i could sucrifice a small sq drop for the way smaller size of the device.


It really depends what sound signature you want, but I’d recommend giving the Max a try if you want a different sound. I think the sound on the Max is better but not something I can personally justify right now since I really like the Alpha.


----------



## subguy812

Found another review;

https://majorhifi.com/astell-kern-kann-max-review/


----------



## RIGATIO

Avenida said:


> It really depends what sound signature you want, but I’d recommend giving the Max a try if you want a different sound. I think the sound on the Max is better but not something I can personally justify right now since I really like the Alpha.
> [/QUOTE
> Yeah, thanks. That's very true, everything is subjective in this hobby. Will try for sure and maybe will write some brief comparison.


----------



## Pow3lley

https://eftm.com/2022/07/review-ast...single-focus-audiophile-quality-sound-224417#


----------



## Gymboy

"Next, I moved onto the KANN MAX with the Bose NC700 (Bluetooth connection) compared to the Focal Bentley headphones I was sent to get the most out of the A&K KANN MAX.  The difference was night and day. "

Guy compared Bluetooth HP to Focal Bentley, this reviews are ridiculous.. obviously DAP can't hold to DX320 or used M17....


----------



## RIGATIO

Gymboy said:


> "Next, I moved onto the KANN MAX with the Bose NC700 (Bluetooth connection) compared to the Focal Bentley headphones I was sent to get the most out of the A&K KANN MAX.  The difference was night and day. "
> 
> Guy compared Bluetooth HP to Focal Bentley, this reviews are ridiculous.. obviously DAP can't hold to DX320 or used M17....


You think the Max is worse than the dx320 sq wise? I will be receiving the Max on friday and will compare it to the 320.


----------



## rocketron

Have you compared the AK Max to DX320 and M17?


----------



## Gymboy

RIGATIO said:


> You think the Max is worse than the dx320 sq wise? I will be receiving the Max on friday and will compare it to the 320.


All reviews are just general sound description, no comparisons to other DAPs, thats very weird. Then this one with Bluetooth...

Please do compare KMax to DX320, I have M17 and DX 312, very happy with both but would like to hear how that one compares, shoulder to shoulder.

IMHO opinion I dont think it can hold ground against DX320 but you will tell me am I right or wrong.


----------



## RIGATIO

There is one review, where they compare dx320 to the Max: https://bloomaudio.com/blogs/articles/astell-kern-kann-max-review
Seems like they liked the Max bit more.
But i will be sure on friday and let you know.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

Gymboy said:


> "Next, I moved onto the KANN MAX with the Bose NC700 (Bluetooth connection) compared to the Focal Bentley headphones I was sent to get the most out of the A&K KANN MAX.  The difference was night and day. "
> 
> Guy compared Bluetooth HP to Focal Bentley, this reviews are ridiculous.. obviously DAP can't hold to DX320 or used M17....


Not if you read all reviews apparently ... 🤷
.


----------



## Gymboy

Let's see what owners will say.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jul 6, 2022)

Gymboy said:


> Let's see what owners will say.


Even does it 'matters' what owners ... ?
So many variables from the audio file, the cables, eartips, IEM, etc ...
Finally there's only one pair of ears who can approve or disagree
I have a Kann Alpha and sounds good so suppose the MAX will be a nice upgrade ?
Now I prefer my N8ii but it's almost x3 in price


----------



## gadus

Gymboy said:


> IMHO opinion I dont think it can hold ground against DX320 but you will tell me am I right or wrong.


It's fine that you really like m17 and dx320 'maybe he kann max better and maybe less good,
That's not the point here at all.
No one thinks it's the best in the world, just have fun and that's it.
For my ears the kann max is great, and it does not add that there is another player beter/ less good, what is also that it is not sure that indeed the m17 / dx320 is better. I saw in one of the reviews that she preferred kann max over dx320 (in the end only my ears will determine ...)
If it's just to know if it's worth you to buy the kann max after you have m17 it's something else.
Apologies for the broken English.


----------



## subguy812

My Miter case arrived today, now I just need the Kann Max. It is slated for tomorrow.


----------



## morndewey

subguy812 said:


> My Miter case arrived today, now I just need the Kann Max. It is slated for tomorrow.


After determining Dignis has nothing in the works for KMax I opted for the AK Italian leather. The blue-green is a nice color. Nevermind the cost. OTT obvio. But after spending for KMax I’m gonna flinch over that much more? Anyways the feel is also satisfying, fits snug. Side button access less than ideal is the only drawback. Be nice to see miter pics.


----------



## subguy812




----------



## gadus

subguy812 said:


> My Miter case arrived today, now I just need the Kann Max. It is slated for tomorrow.


My miter case should arrive today, I hope it's good enough,
I agree in principle with the attitude  of @morndewey .


----------



## gadus

My miter case has arrived, looks good, regarding the quality I have no way of knowing until time passes,
What is certain is that the case is a must for kann max, it is much more comfortable to hold now.


----------



## subguy812 (Jul 9, 2022)

My unit was set to arrive on the 7th. UPS has messed things up. I have no idea where my Kann Max is.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

subguy812 said:


> My unit was set to arrive on the 7th. UPS has messed thing up. I have no idea where my Kann Max is.


Buddy just told me his IEM are lost by FedEx
Happened to me already twice in a year ... 🙄


----------



## RIGATIO

I live in Germany and my package with the Max should be here yesterday. Still no info from DHL. Its a joke..


----------



## subguy812

I do feel I am going to be surprised by sq. Enough to realize the gap between my now reference and the Max wont be so far apart.


----------



## RIGATIO

Here we go! 





I actually love the sound. It was very good stright out of the box but slighlty sharp in hights.
After 3h the hights become sweet and natural.
I didnt expect this kind of signature. I always thought that the Kann series is different, flatter and more reference.
This boy sounds more like a typical A&K on AKMs for me. Smooth, deep, clean, precise with big, deep, punchy sub bass.
Also layering is great, it reminds me very much of the sp1k but with wider soundstage. Great, clean dynamics too.
Very very pleased.

Wifi works very well, im getting strong signal, no interruptions.
UI is what it is, you know AK Doesnt even compare to the dx320 smoothness and speed.

Its getting quite hot with the first use.

I like the sound more than on the dx320 with stock amp. But imho they are on the same level, just different in presentation.
Ibasso is focused more on mids and great texturing. Is very rich when the vocals hit. It has more mid bass than sub. Trebles are becoming more similar now on the AK- sweet, smooth, detailed.

Max has more sub bass presence- i love it! Very satisfying. Dx320 lacked a bit in this area.
Vocals are bit smaller on the AK but bit cleaner and very well separated, having their very precise place on a stage.

Its a keeper for me.


----------



## AnalogandDigital

RIGATIO said:


> Here we go!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you enjoy it ... 😉👌


----------



## psawjack

RIGATIO said:


> Here we go!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So are you selling ibasso for MAXX?


----------



## AnalogandDigital

psawjack said:


> So are you selling ibasso for MAXX?


As I read @RIGATIO has a buyer for the DX320
Even the funds arrived IIRC
Now if he's selling ... 🤷


----------



## RIGATIO

psawjack said:


> So are you selling ibasso for MAXX?


Yup, dhl took it today


----------



## Gymboy

RIGATIO said:


> Yup, dhl took it today


I am happy you like AK Max, all concerns are gone now. After all, sound is all that matters.


----------



## psawjack

RIGATIO said:


> Yup, dhl took it today


Okay, cool. I look forward to your copius amount of detail on the sound quality as well as usage. 

I saw the MAX coming out right after I purchased the 320. I thought to myself WOW the MAX has great specs, 4.4mm, smaller form factor, and can do streaming apps. Sounds like a complete package!

The only questionable things to me were battery life and how restricted the UI is along with how sterile and analytical the sound is, like I have read AK house sound is. I need fun and musical!


----------



## psawjack

Okay I had to order one to try out. I need to hear and see for myself and if it's better than 320 I will firesale it.


----------



## RIGATIO

psawjack said:


> Okay, cool. I look forward to your copius amount of detail on the sound quality as well as usage.
> 
> I saw the MAX coming out right after I purchased the 320. I thought to myself WOW the MAX has great specs, 4.4mm, smaller form factor, and can do streaming apps. Sounds like a complete package!
> 
> The only questionable things to me were battery life and how restricted the UI is along with how sterile and analytical the sound is, like I have read AK house sound is. I need fun and musical!


I only have it for a couple hours and it went down from 54% to 0% in around 3,5h. But AK states on their site that it can hold up to 13h (3,5mm, standard flac, low gain) so im counting it should be around 11h on mid/high gain, 4,4mm and mostly standard flacs mixed with streaming. But i think the battery needs formating. Will report on that after 2-3 full cycles.

For me its more portable than the 320 but is thicker and bit heavier. In general i like its smaller form factor.
I installed Amazon HD with no issues, there is no need to download APK pure on your PC and going through the whole process like with older AK models.
There is an access to the most popular streaming services directly on a dap. Just click download and install.

The sound is definitely more reference than on the dx320 with amp11.2s. But.. i feel like is more fun due to the big, deep bass and clarity and dynamics. Also i noticed that it became smoother and warmer after 3h, so lets wait for some burn in.
320 is slightly warmer and focuses on textures, especially in mids. But is also slightly more blended, where the Max is cleaner, more separated and dynamic (wouldnt call it analitycal, far from it). Its becoming very layered too (at the beginning was bit flatter and wide).
Funny thing- when comparing dx321.2 to the IFI gold Bar, the ifi sounded even cleaner. When compared the Gold Bar to the Max, IFI soundedbit muffled in mids. Tricky brain?
dx323 is significantly smoother and tube-like organic. But its also bit flatter from the bass to hights and plays mainly with the timbre and reverberations.
I loved 323 sound, i think it was the best what ive heard from iBasso to date. For me it was just not enough fun. Fantastic sound for critical listening, audiophiliac nirvana but it lacked fun factor for me.
The Max has it and still maintains to be critical when needed.

So both are great, really like them and my choice is dictated only by personal preferences and the need to have a smaller dap. 

More impressions to come.


----------



## Pow3lley

RIGATIO said:


> Here we go!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad you like it, nice to to hear how it compares with other brands 👍


----------



## RIGATIO

The sound changes quite fast. Now it smoothened and sounds bit like a combination of dx321 and 323. Its maybe slightly clearer in mids, maybe even more natural?? still has very clean and articulated sub bass and bit wider soundstage. But overall it sounds like dx320 lol.
Dont know what kind of changes time will bring but i wouldnt expect anything groundbreaking. At least it doesnt sound worse, exact same level but bit more fun with couple upgrades which are specifically for my liking.
Im very happy coz i was scared of getting a downgrade from the dx320. 
And its smaller


----------



## RIGATIO

I very like the fact that the sound comes out from the dark background and the sub bass. On the IBasso i felt that the starting point was somewhere in mids. It gives a very solid bass core.


----------



## Gymboy

This DAP must go along with rock/blues also heavy metal, where sub is required.


----------



## psawjack

RIGATIO said:


> I very like the fact that the sound comes out from the dark background and the sub bass. On the IBasso i felt that the starting point was somewhere in mids. It gives a very solid bass core.


I like to hear that!


----------



## RIGATIO

I think that the Amazon hd souds bit harsh. It's not as fluid and organic as local files. @JasonNYC is there anything AK could fix? The Max doesn't sound worse than the SP1k from local files but i remember a better performance from 1k while streaming.


----------



## RIGATIO

Switched to Tidal, sounds way better. But still would be great to have Amazon hd sorted out.


----------



## subguy812

Not even a chance to listen yet


----------



## RIGATIO

Jesus this Max has bass.. it doesn't give a f**CK.


----------



## subguy812

For folks curious about the Miter case...


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jul 11, 2022)

I have a blue Miter for my AK Kann Alpha
But check the picture and 'sadness' will happen there ...
No clue if it fits the AK Kann MAX but I would go for this one
.
US $29.03 40%OFF | Soft TPU Shockproof Protective Case Cover for iRiver Kann Alpha Shell Skin
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mK67iDo
.



.


----------



## psawjack

RIGATIO said:


> Switched to Tidal, sounds way better. But still would be great to have Amazon hd sorted out.


Any chance you tried Quboz?


----------



## subguy812

psawjack said:


> Any chance you tried Quboz?


I have Installed Qobuz


----------



## RIGATIO

subguy812 said:


> For folks curious about the Miter case...


I ordered one. Wanted original one but the jacks of the Monarch cable wouldn't fit probably. They are very wide especially 4.4 connectors.


----------



## psawjack

Anything out of the expected?  

Can you install YouTube or YouTube music?


----------



## RIGATIO

subguy812 said:


> I have Installed Qobuz


And i installed Tidal because Amazon hd sounds horrible. Tidal masters sounds very good tho. Not as good as local files but quite close.


----------



## RIGATIO

psawjack said:


> Anything out of the expected?
> 
> Can you install YouTube or YouTube music?


Dont do it!  It's not dx320.


----------



## RIGATIO

Max sounds better than the dx320 in my opinion. Very well controlled vocals. Tried many songs that were quite problematic with other daps, and no problems here. Sometimes there are higher mid peeks but not as annoying as on other daps. I couldnt listen to Adele and Tina Turner on the dx320 and Shanling m9. Here way better control.


----------



## Gymboy

RIGATIO said:


> Dont do it!  It's not dx320.


Stuttering?


----------



## psawjack

Well I'm out. 

Quote from manual: Do not use the product during physical activities (driving, 
walking, hiking, etc.).

If I can't walk and use it at the same time I don't want it!


----------



## RIGATIO

psawjack said:


> Well I'm out.
> 
> Quote from manual: Do not use the product during physical activities (driving,
> walking, hiking, etc.).
> ...


hahaha


----------



## RIGATIO (Jul 12, 2022)

Kann Max + Thieaudio Monarch MkII--> a  different world. I can find words to describe what im hearing. It smashes my head, im getting depressed and excited at the same time.


----------



## jos8499

È un video che spiega le caratteristiche del Kan Max


----------



## jos8499

It is a video explaining the characteristics of the Kan Max


----------



## subguy812 (Jul 12, 2022)

Sound grows on you quick.. the best Kann I have heard yet.


----------



## subguy812

psawjack said:


> Well I'm out.
> 
> Quote from manual: Do not use the product during physical activities (driving,
> walking, hiking, etc.).
> ...


Qobuz sounds great...no issues with Qobuz if that is your streaming service. I use a few and it is one of them


----------



## JasonNYC

RIGATIO said:


> I think that the Amazon hd souds bit harsh. It's not as fluid and organic as local files. @JasonNYC is there anything AK could fix? The Max doesn't sound worse than the SP1k from local files but i remember a better performance from 1k while streaming.


@RIGATIO Thanks for tagging me.  I didn't know this thread existed.  Now that I know it is here, I will follow closer.

Not sure about Amazon Music on the MAX.  I haven't had a chance to listen to the MAX yet, but will pass this onto the dev team.

KANN MAX will be getting a firmware update next week (tentatively scheduled for the morning of July 20 Korea time).  Among the updates:

1. Roon Ready support
2. Bluetooth Improvements
3. Wi-Fi stability improvements, especially when using streaming services
4. Additional support for connection issues when using KANN MAX with M1 processor-based Macs.


----------



## JasonNYC

psawjack said:


> Anything out of the expected?
> 
> Can you install YouTube or YouTube music?


YouTube and YouTube Music require Google Play Services to be installed on the player in order to work properly.  AK players have an embedded version of YouTube and YouTube Music as part of the V-Link app on the players.


----------



## RIGATIO

@JasonNYC Thanx!
Would be also nice to have an option to deactivate volume wheel when the screen is off. I find myself changing the volume accidently when putting the player in a pocket. 
Just a small thing but quite helpfull.


----------



## JasonNYC (Jul 12, 2022)

RIGATIO said:


> @JasonNYC Thanx!
> Would be also nice to have an option to deactivate volume wheel when the screen is off. I find myself changing the volume accidently when putting the player in a pocket.
> Just a small thing but quite helpfull.


There should be a wheel lock option in the settings menu that will prevent the volume from adjusting when the screen is off.


----------



## Bkew

So how much difference in sound is there between Kann Alpha to the MAX ?  Is there really much difference?  Note: I don't stream like many, FLAC files with playlist.


----------



## psawjack

Well my initial thoughts are good. I like the UI, not sure why I was sweating it. It is organized well and easy to navigate. I tried Quboz and am liking the streaming portion of the player. It really is the perfect size IMO. It is thick but that makes it easier to hold. Haven't tried Bluetooth or USB DAC mode yet. 

For the sound quality I can't seem to distinguish a difference between the ibasso 320 and the Max. I like them both. I had steered clear of AK because I heard it was so cold and analytical and I like warm and musical. With the Max I am comfortable with the sound. 

For the cost I think it's a great deal. I would like to have had a case included but oh well. 

Now what to do: sell 320 and keep Max or return Max and keep 320?  Decisions, decisions,...


----------



## subguy812

psawjack said:


> Well my initial thoughts are good. I like the UI, not sure why I was sweating it. It is organized well and easy to navigate. I tried Quboz and am liking the streaming portion of the player. It really is the perfect size IMO. It is thick but that makes it easier to hold. Haven't tried Bluetooth or USB DAC mode yet.
> 
> For the sound quality I can't seem to distinguish a difference between the ibasso 320 and the Max. I like them both. I had steered clear of AK because I heard it was so cold and analytical and I like warm and musical. With the Max I am comfortable with the sound.
> 
> ...


Welcome to AK. Your choice will be clear to you in a couple of days, don't sweat it, enjoy


----------



## RIGATIO

psawjack said:


> Well my initial thoughts are good. I like the UI, not sure why I was sweating it. It is organized well and easy to navigate. I tried Quboz and am liking the streaming portion of the player. It really is the perfect size IMO. It is thick but that makes it easier to hold. Haven't tried Bluetooth or USB DAC mode yet.
> 
> For the sound quality I can't seem to distinguish a difference between the ibasso 320 and the Max. I like them both. I had steered clear of AK because I heard it was so cold and analytical and I like warm and musical. With the Max I am comfortable with the sound.
> 
> ...


In my case 2 things pushed me towards Max- 1 and the most important its the size and maybe the design which is COOL, 2 more punch in sub bass, so im more satisfied when listening on lower volumes because i feel like im getting more extention in this area then.
I think AK did a great job with the Max. They were always behind iBasso when bang for the buck came into a play. Ibasso models always sounded better than AK players at the same price.
I remember when compared my former dx300 to the Alpha back then. The 300 was at least one tier higher.
Not the case here, considering how great the dx320 is, with its ROHM implementation and the Max being on the same level. And it has addictive bass!
And also i dont want to spend any more money on new iBasso amps. I know that i wouldnt resist buying new one or even paying extra for modding amps i already have to get an extra 1-2% of improvement.
With Max the case is closed, no additional temptations and costs. And the sound has a perfect balance for me.


----------



## Pow3lley

https://www.ecoustics.com/reviews/astell-kern-kann-max/


----------



## RIGATIO

Guys is your Max getting hot while using 4.4mm? I on mid gain with the Monarch Mk2. I received Miter case today but removed it after an hour because the player got very hot.
Is it normal?


----------



## Pow3lley

RIGATIO said:


> Guys is your Max getting hot while using 4.4mm? I on mid gain with the Monarch Mk2. I received Miter case today but removed it after an hour because the player got very hot.
> Is it normal?


Too hot to touch? I haven’t had any issue it gets warm after a couple off hours listening


----------



## Pow3lley

Pow3lley said:


> Too hot to touch? I haven’t had any issue it gets warm after a couple off hours listening


That’s using the 2.5mm balanced on high gain with the Bd T5’s


----------



## RIGATIO

But the summer is very hot now were i live. It's barely warm on evenings. Will see.


----------



## jrcai

Long play with 4.4 can get pretty warm but not untouchable hot.


----------



## subguy812

@JasonNYC can chime in, but all of the many DAPs I have used for the past couple of years have gotten really warm to the touch. I haven't felt the need to remove the case. I generally use high gain, for preferred dynamics, and usually somewhere round 50% volume, which would actually be 75 on the volume indicator.


----------



## gadus

For me it also heats up when I use 4.4 but it happens more when I am outside in the scorching sun, inside it heats up less,
Anyway it's not very hot,
According to the local supplier here it is completely normal.
Do not forget that there is a powerful amplifier inside.


----------



## RIGATIO

Im amazed how responsive Tidal masters streaming is. Its as fast as on the dx320, the song takes around 1 sec to start playing.


----------



## RIGATIO (Jul 15, 2022)

Is there anyone here who uses the Max longer? Is any burn in that smoothens the sound more?
I'm now hearing very sharp hights. It's not musical at all. Its not bright maybe but laser sharp and definitely not natural to my ears.
The dx323 was very analog sounding (i know- tubes) but here i can hear like the knives are cutting my ears.
I have a very well tuned iems so the problem doesn't lay here.
Is the sound changing after a while and becomes more mellow and natural in hights after more hours?


----------



## Alexzander

@RIGATIO have you tried slowest roll-off filter?
It usually helps on Sabre dacs.


----------



## subguy812

RIGATIO said:


> Is there anyone here who uses the Max longer? Is any burn in that smoothens the sound more?
> I'm now hearing very sharp hights. It's not musical at all. Its not bright maybe but laser sharp and definitely not natural to my ears.
> The dx323 was very analog sounding (i know- tubes) but here i can hear like the knives are cutting my ears.
> I have a very well tuned iems so the problem doesn't lay here.
> Is the sound changing after a while and becomes more mellow and natural in hights after more hours?


I thought yiu were getting along with this so well. What changed? 

ed?


----------



## RIGATIO

subguy812 said:


> I thought yiu were getting along with this so well. What changed?
> 
> ed?


It was smoother but became sharp (but still very clean, so no distortions). In general it sounds amazing but im not used to such edged and cutting detail in hights.
Everything depends on the music. Most of it sounds buttery smooth but i had in my head dx320 with the amp13, so maybe im exaggerating. Im on solid state now in the end.


----------



## Nostoi

RIGATIO said:


> Is there anyone here who uses the Max longer? Is any burn in that smoothens the sound more?
> I'm now hearing very sharp hights. It's not musical at all. Its not bright maybe but laser sharp and definitely not natural to my ears.
> The dx323 was very analog sounding (i know- tubes) but here i can hear like the knives are cutting my ears.
> I have a very well tuned iems so the problem doesn't lay here.
> Is the sound changing after a while and becomes more mellow and natural in hights after more hours?


How many hours of use have you put in?


----------



## RIGATIO

Nostoi said:


> How many hours of use have you put in?


I have around 20-25 on clock i think. But it's ok now, it disappeared somehow.
I'm just getting used to the vocals, it's a process. They are very precise and clean but i think they lack body a bit. It could be due to the lighter mid bass. The Max has great sub bass extension but the mid bass is slightly laid back and there is not enough warmth in mids. It's a very technical player but it doesn't evoke too much emotions in me in vocal music.


----------



## Nostoi

RIGATIO said:


> I have around 20-25 on clock i think. But it's ok now, it disappeared somehow.
> I'm just getting used to the vocals, it's a process. They are very precise and clean but i think they lack body a bit. It could be due to the lighter mid bass. The Max has great sub bass extension but the mid bass is slightly laid back and there is not enough warmth in mids. It's a very technical player but it doesn't evoke too much emotions in me in vocal music.


Interesting. Actually sounds like my cup of tea, as I lean toward sub-bass emphasis, flat mid-bass/mids, with good technical performance. 

Any changes from hereon I would expect to be subtle, but you could always pair with tube amp for mid warmth. 

What's your personal preference, smooth and warm?


----------



## Altes

subguy812 said:


> I generally use high gain, for preferred dynamics


does higher gain improve dynamics over lower gain? where can i read more about that?


----------



## Gymboy

RIGATIO said:


> Is there anyone here who uses the Max longer? Is any burn in that smoothens the sound more?
> I'm now hearing very sharp hights. It's not musical at all. Its not bright maybe but laser sharp and definitely not natural to my ears.
> The dx323 was very analog sounding (i know- tubes) but here i can hear like the knives are cutting my ears.
> I have a very well tuned iems so the problem doesn't lay here.
> Is the sound changing after a while and becomes more mellow and natural in hights after more hours?


I have noticed same with M17 yesterday, listening to LCD 2 2021 closed back, highs got little sharper and more precise, I would give it to ESS dacs thing.


----------



## RIGATIO

Nostoi said:


> Interesting. Actually sounds like my cup of tea, as I lean toward sub-bass emphasis, flat mid-bass/mids, with good technical performance.
> 
> Any changes from hereon I would expect to be subtle, but you could always pair with tube amp for mid warmth.
> 
> What's your personal preference, smooth and warm?


Well not exactly. I very like what in hearing here. I just switched from the dx320 and amp 13, so it's a different sound slightly.
For me stock dx320 had slightly too little sub bass presence and the amp13 was becoming too soft after a while. Here i find great balance but the vocals are maybe too technical for me.


----------



## RIGATIO

Altes said:


> does higher gain improve dynamics over lower gain? where can i read more about that?


Yes it does.


----------



## fanteskiller

RIGATIO said:


> Yes it does.


So though my iem can be driven by low gain I need to select high gain for better dynamic?


----------



## RIGATIO

fanteskiller said:


> So though my iem can be driven by low gain I need to select high gain for better dynamic?


I have Monarchs which are very sensitive. I could drive them easily on low gain, mid or high gain give more articulate punch everywhere. And the stage is wider.
I tried them even on Super gain and dead silent background.


----------



## RIGATIO

fanteskiller said:


> So though my iem can be driven by low gain I need to select high gain for better dynamic?


It's better when you try it yourself. If you will get better dynamics with completely black background, then it's better i think.


----------



## RIGATIO

Ok after some comparisons with my desktop setup and basing on this, with dx320 from memory, I'm sure that the Max sounds more emotional.
Im just adjusting to it's presentation.
But this exceptional clarity in mids and bit less mid bass, give definitely more air and space for the instruments to shine. Combined with a great depth to the sound and very very black background, it creates very vivid and atmospheric presentation.
I remember dx320 with stock amp being more energetic but more linear and very technical. The amp13 gave very liquid sound but too soft for being universal. It also muddied the sound slightly with too much mid bass.
It was a very high quality sound but i think the Max is more balanced and does something very Astell kernish with layering and space. It's cleaner but somehow more romantic? Hard to describe, maybe I'm just adjusting or/and it started burning in.


----------



## RIGATIO

Just tried the Max with my old Xelentos. Wow what a spectacular soundstage. The sound reminds me more speaker amplifier than a dap. Wide, organic and GRAND. Huge soundscape.


----------



## gadus

RIGATIO said:


> Is there anyone here who uses the Max longer? Is any burn in that smoothens the sound more?
> I'm now hearing very sharp hights. It's not musical at all. Its not bright maybe but laser sharp and definitely not natural to my ears.
> The dx323 was very analog sounding (i know- tubes) but here i can hear like the knives are cutting my ears.
> I have a very well tuned iems so the problem doesn't lay here.
> Is the sound changing after a while and becomes more mellow and natural in hights after more hours?


I did not come across with sharp highs at all,
For me the tall ones are very detailed but smooth and pleasant,
Sometimes it depends on the music you hear, there are recordings that without an amplifier tubes will be sharp,
Undoubtedly the kann max tends towards a neutral and not hot direction, and yet it is pleasantly smooth and exciting and really non-clinical and dry,
Interesting to try plugging it into a tube amp,


----------



## RIGATIO

Just tried the Sundaras with the Max. This is the first dap that is able to power them like a real desktop amp. I've tried many daps before, including sp1000, dx300, dx320, Shanling m9 and the results were poor.
With the Max, there is everything - the bass, soundstage, detail, separation. How it's even possible from such a small device? I'm on Super gain 90/150. Could even go lower to the high gain and no problems.
It sounds like from real stationary rig.


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Jul 17, 2022)

RIGATIO said:


> Just tried the Sundaras with the Max. This is the first dap that is able to power them like a real desktop amp. I've tried many daps before, including sp1000, dx300, dx320, Shanling m9 and the results were poor.
> With the Max, there is everything - the bass, soundstage, detail, separation. How it's even possible from such a small device? I'm on Super gain 90/150. Could even go lower to the high gain and no problems.
> It sounds like from real stationary rig.


Check one of my previous posts
Balanced it drives even a Susvara !
Suppose I posted it ... 🤔


----------



## gadus

I listened to Mahler's Symphony No. 1 performed by bruno walter and the Columbia Orchestra in excellent remaster (I think sony),
What a stage! The opening cello in the third movement sounds like it's in the room in front of you and not close to your ears ... (in iem!) You get a perfect picture of the whole orchestra, lots of micro details and a wonderful presentation,
pleasure!


----------



## gadus

RIGATIO said:


> Im amazed how responsive Tidal masters streaming is. Its as fast as on the dx320, the song takes around 1 sec to start playing.


I recommend you try the quboz, sound better (in my opinion) even than tidal.


----------



## tb303

RIGATIO said:


> Is there anyone here who uses the Max longer? Is any burn in that smoothens the sound more?
> I'm now hearing very sharp hights. It's not musical at all. Its not bright maybe but laser sharp and definitely not natural to my ears.
> The dx323 was very analog sounding (i know- tubes) but here i can hear like the knives are cutting my ears.
> I have a very well tuned iems so the problem doesn't lay here.
> Is the sound changing after a while and becomes more mellow and natural in hights after more hours?


try different DAP filters


----------



## gadus

JasonNYC said:


> . Roon Ready support


This is really good news !!
Did the firmware update come out on time?


----------



## fanteskiller

gadus said:


> I recommend you try the quboz, sound better (in my opinion) even than tidal.


Yes, quboz sound obviously better than tidal.


----------



## JJF_888

Can Tidal MQA files be downloaded and played when out of cell/wifi coverage?


----------



## Alexzander

JJF_888 said:


> Can Tidal MQA files be downloaded and played when out of cell/wifi coverage?


Yes, it is possible.


----------



## JJF_888

Alexzander said:


> Yes, it is possible.


Have you tried it? I've heard you have to use the Android Tidal app to get full offline functionality. But it's not clear to me if it then self-limits down the standard Android low-res and not the MQA res.


----------



## JasonNYC

JJF_888 said:


> Have you tried it? I've heard you have to use the Android Tidal app to get full offline functionality. But it's not clear to me if it then self-limits down the standard Android low-res and not the MQA res.


The embedded Tidal app does not allow offline option.  You would need to download the Tidal Android APK and install it on the player for offline content.  The app installed via APK will bypass Android limitations and do full unfold of MQA tracks, including offline downloads.


----------



## JJF_888

JasonNYC said:


> The embedded Tidal app does not allow offline option.  You would need to download the Tidal Android APK and install it on the player for offline content.  The app installed via APK will bypass Android limitations and do full unfold of MQA tracks, including offline downloads.


Thanks. Have you tried it?


----------



## AnalogandDigital

JJF_888 said:


> Thanks. Have you tried it?


Have it on my AK Kann Alpha
Works perfectly ... 👌


----------



## JJF_888

AnalogandDigital said:


> Have it on my AK Kann Alpha
> Works perfectly ... 👌


Thanks!


----------



## JasonNYC

JJF_888 said:


> Thanks. Have you tried it?


Yes, have used offline mode on both Tidal and Qobuz apps without issue many times.


----------



## JasonNYC

Need some recommendations please!

For CanJam SoCal this year, we are looking to demo our players with a variety of headphones from different manufacturers.  In the past, we always demoed with AK-branded headphones and IEMs.  Looking for recommendations for headphones you have used that you feel are a good fit for the KANN MAX/KANN ALPHA or would like to demo with our players if you are attending the show.  Please feel free to PM me with any recommendations so we do not clog up the thread.

Appreciate the help and looking forward to hopefully seeing some of you at CanJam SoCal in September!


----------



## gadus

The new firmware update is already available!


----------



## JJF_888

Thanks everyone. Ordered the Kann Maxx and will sell the original Kann.


----------



## sk57rus

Hello everyoneCan anyone tell me how the player plays heavy music?


----------



## Nostoi

sk57rus said:


> Hello everyoneCan anyone tell me how the player plays heavy music?


You turn it on and then turn it up to 11.


----------



## sk57rus

Nostoi said:


> You turn it on and then turn it up to 11.


I don't quite understand what you mean


----------



## ipaddy

Anybody have (or had) the FIIO M15, and then got the Kann Max? How did they compare in your opinion?


----------



## RIGATIO

ipaddy said:


> Anybody have (or had) the FIIO M15, and then got the Kann Max? How did they compare in your opinion?


I've heard M15 and the Max is better imo. It's a next gen player definitely worth its price.


----------



## gadus

How to run roon on kann max?
Thanks


----------



## ipaddy (Jul 21, 2022)

RIGATIO said:


> I've heard M15 and the Max is better imo. It's a next gen player definitely worth its price.


Thanks for the response. In what way do you recall the Max being better?

I note that the SNR for the M15 is as follows:

>121 dB (Line Out)
>121 dB (Headphone Out)
>119 dB (Headphone Out)
>122 dB (Balanced Headphone Out)
>118 dB (Balanced Headphone Out

and for the Kann it is:


*S/N*​114dB @ 1kHz, Unbalanced │ 115dB @ 1kHz, Balanced

and yes, i know the argument that both of these are way past human ability to recognize, but objectively a diference of 3-4 db is significant, and why should it have gone down in 2 years since the M15 came out?,


----------



## gadus

It serves as an endpoint only for roon


----------



## JJF_888

Just received my Kann Max today. So far so good. Love the size. Anyone having an issue with super weak wifi antenna in the device? I need to stand a few feet from the router to get a strong signal. Did not have this issue with the old Kann.


----------



## MikeO3 (Jul 22, 2022)

JJF_888 said:


> Just received my Kann Max today. So far so good. Love the size. Anyone having an issue with super weak wifi antenna in the device? I need to stand a few feet from the router to get a strong signal. Did not have this issue with the old Kann.


Since updating yesterday, I have noticed that mesh node changes are session dropping in Roon and then flapping between the two known networks on the Max. Not happened for the previous week. Other then that pretty much the same as other devices in my environment for signal strength.

I changed to a static address for now and it has been much better from backyard to the kitchen fridge where the refreshments are. Ill keep an eye on it for the weekend.


----------



## JJF_888

MikeO3 said:


> Since updating yesterday, I have noticed that mesh node changes are session dropping in Roon and then flapping between the two known networks on the Max. Not happened for the previous week. Other then that pretty much the same as other devices in my environment for signal strength.
> 
> I changed to a static address for now and it has been much better from backyard to the kitchen fridge where the refreshments are. Ill keep an eye on it for the weekend.


How did you set a static IP address for it?


----------



## MikeO3

JJF_888 said:


> How did you set a static IP address for it?


Under WIFI, Forget your SSID and then re-add. Just below the Password box there is Show Advanced which will enable you to select Static.


----------



## jrcai

RIGATIO said:


> Is there anyone here who uses the Max longer? Is any burn in that smoothens the sound more?
> I'm now hearing very sharp hights. It's not musical at all. Its not bright maybe but laser sharp and definitely not natural to my ears.
> The dx323 was very analog sounding (i know- tubes) but here i can hear like the knives are cutting my ears.
> I have a very well tuned iems so the problem doesn't lay here.
> Is the sound changing after a while and becomes more mellow and natural in hights after more hours?


The sound out of the box was really bad, thin and dry. I was disappointed. After at least 48-hours of burn in, it become smooth and sweet. Now I love it!


----------



## jrcai

JJF_888 said:


> Can Tidal MQA files be downloaded and played when out of cell/wifi coverage?


Yes


----------



## tb303

JasonNYC said:


> Need some recommendations please!
> 
> For CanJam SoCal this year, we are looking to demo our players with a variety of headphones from different manufacturers.  In the past, we always demoed with AK-branded headphones and IEMs.  Looking for recommendations for headphones you have used that you feel are a good fit for the KANN MAX/KANN ALPHA or would like to demo with our players if you are attending the show.  Please feel free to PM me with any recommendations so we do not clog up the thread.
> 
> Appreciate the help and looking forward to hopefully seeing some of you at CanJam SoCal in September!


ZMF Eikon and ZMF Aeolus


----------



## Maxx134 (Jul 24, 2022)

It seems A&K chose to give imaginary numbers for actual output power, because they state some voltage at zero load.
There is no reason to do this, if they have a decent output. There is no reason to go away from the standard of using  "watts", and especially fearful if they using a "zero load"...

So I must assume, as "_my guess_" it being around one watt peak, if they hiding it this way...
They shouldn't be ashamed or misleading of 1watts or so.
If anyone knows the actual wattage, it would help.
Sorry to come off as a sour post.


----------



## morndewey

Kann Max > Med Amp > 2.5 balanced > PW Audio No. 10 > VE Elysium > Spin Fits W1 > 16/44 flac > Matthew Shipp & Daniel Carter “Dark Matrix” =_ Just Exactly Right_


----------



## tret

Any Apple Music users here? I installed the latest Apple Music apk (v3.10.1-1214) and everything is working great but during playback the bitrate LED is indicating 32-bit playback regardless of whether the track I select is labeled as Lossless (16/44) or Hi-Res (up to 24/192). I'm trying to figure out if I'm getting pit-perfect playback or if the player is upsampling. Thanks!


----------



## ipaddy (Jul 28, 2022)

I'm running into a major problem with the Kann Max. Haven't had this with any other units, such as FIIO.

When I turn on the unit, after a few seconds, I go to the left, and click on folders. (I do have many folders, probably about 100, 50 in one directory and 50 in another). At that point, the Kann Max has a spinning circle that spins for a few minutes and is not responsive. Then the two circles appear, asking if I want to go to internal or external memory. When I click on external, all is ok in terms of time spent.

However, I cannot bear to wait literally 3-4 minutes every time I turn on the unit in order to be able to access folders. Worse, if I turn away for a minute, and don't immediately choose internal or external, it forgets, and I have to click on folders again and wait 3-4 minute again. This is horrible.

And this is not a slow micro SDXC card. This is the Sandisk Extreme, U3, V30, with a Read Speed of what the internet tells me is 160MB/s.

Any solutions?


----------



## JasonNYC

ipaddy said:


> I'm running into a major problem with the Kann Max. Haven't had this with any other units, such as FIIO.
> 
> When I turn on the unit, after a few seconds, I go to the left, and click on folders. (I do have many folders, probably about 100, 50 in one directory and 50 in another). At that point, the Kann Max has a spinning circle that spins for a few minutes and is not responsive. Then the two circles appear, asking if I want to go to internal or external memory. When I click on external, all is ok in terms of time spent.
> 
> ...


Did you recently add new files and folders on the player within the last day or so?  If so, the player will index in the background over a few starts.  You can force the database index all at once by doing a manual media scan - Settings -> System Reset -> Initialize media scan.  If you have playlists saved, make sure "Clear Playlists" is unchecked.

Depending on the number of files in internal and external memory, it can take up to 15 - 20 minutes to fully scan and index files.


----------



## ipaddy (Jul 28, 2022)

JasonNYC said:


> Did you recently add new files and folders on the player within the last day or so?  If so, the player will index in the background over a few starts.  You can force the database index all at once by doing a manual media scan - Settings -> System Reset -> Initialize media scan.  If you have playlists saved, make sure "Clear Playlists" is unchecked.
> 
> Depending on the number of files in internal and external memory, it can take up to 15 - 20 minutes to fully scan and index files.


Thanks for the quick response. I'm sure hoping that's it. I'll try that process.

Update: When I click on System Reset, all three choices, Initialize Media Scan, Settings Reset, and Factory Data Reset, are greyed out and cannot be touched on.

Further Update: Removing the card, and turning the unit on and off a few times, allowed selection of Media Scan. However, it just searches for a second, and then always requires 3-4 minutes before it will show me the external SDXC.

This does *not* happen on any other unit, so it's not the SDXC card.

If there is no solution, this unit goes back.


----------



## ipaddy

JasonNYC said:


> Did you recently add new files and folders on the player within the last day or so?  If so, the player will index in the background over a few starts.  You can force the database index all at once by doing a manual media scan - Settings -> System Reset -> Initialize media scan.  If you have playlists saved, make sure "Clear Playlists" is unchecked.
> 
> Depending on the number of files in internal and external memory, it can take up to 15 - 20 minutes to fully scan and index files.


I turned it on, left it sitting on for an hour.

Then turned it on again, and tried to access folders in the external drive. No chance. Apparently, nothing is being indexed. It took the same amount of time, about 4 minutes, to finally show me the main external SDXC card folder.

So, back it goes.


----------



## MikeO3

ipaddy said:


> I turned it on, left it sitting on for an hour.
> 
> Then turned it on again, and tried to access folders in the external drive. No chance. Apparently, nothing is being indexed. It took the same amount of time, about 4 minutes, to finally show me the main external SDXC card folder.
> 
> So, back it goes.


Sorry to hear your having troubles. While the scanning is happening the media library is available to play. No bother for me really since the device is not stalled and seems to handle multi threaded activities well. 

Just ran a load as I was curious how long it takes myself. Yup, it does take a while if you sit there and watch it!
Lexar Play 1TB 150MB/s
513GB 7724 files 99 dsf 7625 flac 24bit+
Running on battery and no phones plugged in
*28 minutes*

FWWIW my Sony NW-ZX2 used to take days to complete and Neutron player 5 minutes with no sound analysis.


----------



## JasonNYC

ipaddy said:


> I turned it on, left it sitting on for an hour.
> 
> Then turned it on again, and tried to access folders in the external drive. No chance. Apparently, nothing is being indexed. It took the same amount of time, about 4 minutes, to finally show me the main external SDXC card folder.
> 
> So, back it goes.


Another possible cause of this is that there is an unsupported file format such as MP4 stored on the microSD card or internal memory.  Instead of the player just ignoring unsupported formats, it will try to rescan in background and access it, which will cause the UI to slow as the player is trying to process the unsupported file format.


----------



## ipaddy

JasonNYC said:


> Another possible cause of this is that there is an unsupported file format such as MP4 stored on the microSD card or internal memory.  Instead of the player just ignoring unsupported formats, it will try to rescan in background and access it, which will cause the UI to slow as the player is trying to process the unsupported file format.



Understood. And yet, after the 3-4 minutes, it would finally show the external sdxc card. 

If it were choking on a specific file, wouldn't it stay choked? I mean, it eventually shows the card. I would doubt that the unit's software has the intelligence to try to index a few times, then say to itself I give up, and then show.


----------



## ipaddy

MikeO3 said:


> Sorry to hear your having troubles. While the scanning is happening the media library is available to play. No bother for me really since the device is not stalled and seems to handle multi threaded activities well.
> 
> Just ran a load as I was curious how long it takes myself. Yup, it does take a while if you sit there and watch it!
> Lexar Play 1TB 150MB/s
> ...


I wouldn't mind if it had taken 15 minute, or even an hour to index the card. As long as it eventually did, and the next time I turned it on it went there quickly. But it didn't.


----------



## subguy812 (Jul 30, 2022)

ipaddy said:


> Understood. And yet, after the 3-4 minutes, it would finally show the external sdxc card.
> 
> If it were choking on a specific file, wouldn't it stay choked? I mean, it eventually shows the card. I would doubt that the unit's software has the intelligence to try to index a few times, then say to itself I give up, and then show.


Maybe you should check your card for an unsupported file, based on what Jason said, rather than speculate on UI intelligence and so on. Once you do that, since it appears you are looking for a reason to return the DAP, then return it.


----------



## aquarium-stereo

subguy812 said:


> Maybe you should check your card for an unsupported file, based on what Jason said, rather than speculate on UI intelligence and so on. Once you do that, since it appears you are looking for a reason to return the DAP, then return it.


----------



## aquarium-stereo (Jul 30, 2022)

Got my new Alpha Max.

Quite happy with it. I replaced my Kann Alpha. Wasn’t sure I was making the right move in that I was very happy with the Kann Alpha. I like that the Alpha Max supports native 32bit/786hz and DSD 512 playback, not that I will ever experience that level.

Like that I have replay Gain, allowing the player to adjust the volume between tracks and maintain a consistent playback.

I play a lot of different music and so that is a must for me.

Using a 1Tb micro card and a potable 2TB Samsung T7 SSD card with my internal card filled right up.

I have had no problems playing any of my music. I do find if I am traveling and using the external T7 that the battery drains quite quickly. That also happened with the Kann Alpha. Just don’t use the T7 as much when traveling over 4 hours.

For listening mainly my Audeze LCD-XC closed back headphones with Nordost blue heaven cables, also use the Cardas earbuds a lot.

Quite happy with the thinner Kann Max. I looked at the ES 180 but it was a lot larger than I wanted.

I like that the high volume warning level doesn’t kick in until 60 in that I usually play around 55.

The Kann Alpha high volume warning level kicked in at 50 which was too low for my liking.

Have the original Kann in for servicing right now. Will compare the two when I get it back with a new battery.

All the goodies that the Kann Max has will mean that I will probably sell the original Kann to a good friend.

I have the amp set at mid gain which sounds fine to me.

So far loving the Kann Max this will probably be my last player.


----------



## ipaddy

subguy812 said:


> Maybe you should check your card for an unsupported file, based on what Jason said, rather than speculate on UI intelligence and so on. Once you do that, since it appears you are looking for a reason to return the DAP, then return it.


That makes sense, I agree.


----------



## palexander

@JasonNYC What was the design decision behind only supporting 802.11n 2.4Ghz WiFi, a standard developed in 2009, in Kann Max. I just got the Max and I’m very disappointed about this development. My WiFi normally does 300-400mbps but on the Kann Max it only does 65mbps because you are using a 13 year old WiFi chip.


----------



## gadus

palexander said:


> @JasonNYC What was the design decision behind only supporting 802.11n 2.4Ghz WiFi, a standard developed in 2009, in Kann Max. I just got the Max and I’m very disappointed about this development. My WiFi normally does 300-400mbps but on the Kann Max it only does 65mbps because you are using a 13 year old WiFi chip.


I agree with the question, although in the end it works fine anyway,
I bought Kann Max mainly for the sound and it does that perfectly.
It's a bit strange to me that there are almost no reviews on it,
Bottom line I really enjoy kann max.


----------



## gadus

Maxx134 said:


> It seems A&K chose to give imaginary numbers for actual output power, because they state some voltage at zero load.
> There is no reason to do this, if they have a decent output. There is no reason to go away from the standard of using  "watts", and especially fearful if they using a "zero load"...
> 
> So I must assume, as "_my guess_" it being around one watt peak, if they hiding it this way...
> ...


Is there any truth to this claim?


----------



## Maxx134

gadus said:


> Is there any truth to this claim?


Doesn't really matter if it works for you. I assume the power is very decent regardless.


----------



## morndewey

Yes, I’ve been reading dx320 thread. 
Try not to hold it against me re my question but…
Has anyone noticed changes in KMax sound signature following recent system update to 1.10?
Happy to be disconfirmed


----------



## subguy812

Maxx134 said:


> Doesn't really matter if it works for you. I assume the power is very decent regardless.


Hows your DX320 treating you? I remember the horror that was the DX300


----------



## palexander (Aug 5, 2022)

subguy812 said:


> Hows your DX320 treating you? I remember the horror that was the DX300


I’ll respond since I have personal experience with this. I returned the Kann Max for the DX320 and I’m so much happier. Gone is the need to scour apkpure for old versions of apps that work properly.(i.e. Nugs.net, which I did get working on Kann Max, but only after installing the oldest version).  DX320 my WiFi tests at 450mbps instead of 65mbps on the Kann Max’s sorry wireless. With DX320 the screen is so much bigger, easier to type on, load any app I want, I can do streaming video even, as there is awesome live music on YouTube that sounds absolutely  fantastic on the DX320 (Kann Max stuttered at even 720p video stream). DX320’s beautiful HD screen, swappable amp cards, and just general ease of use just completely blow away the Kann Max for me.

Kann Max sounds fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but the usability of it drove me nuts. I was constantly having to transfer files from my iPhone to it. DX320, I can do everything on the device because any app. The first app I installed was Google Play and it was so simple from there. For my money, DX320 is light years better. I think Kann Max would be better if my offline music library was better organized, but if you value streaming at all, DX320 is so much better, in my opinion.


----------



## kovex666 (Aug 7, 2022)

Max  can handle  with AB Diana 2?


----------



## tb303

Has anyone compared Kann Max with Fiio M17. I have the original Kann Cube and Kann Alpha and prefer the sound signature of the Cube. I'm currently looking for an update and will be aiming to squeeze max out of my ZMF Eikon and Aeolus (full cans). Thinking about an upgrade path to either Kann Max or Fiio M17....any idea? Any other alternatives?


----------



## pointlineplane

palexander said:


> I’ll respond since I have personal experience with this. I returned the Kann Max for the DX320 and I’m so much happier. Gone is the need to scour apkpure for old versions of apps that work properly.(i.e. Nugs.net, which I did get working on Kann Max, but only after installing the oldest version).  DX320 my WiFi tests at 450mbps instead of 65mbps on the Kann Max’s sorry wireless. With DX320 the screen is so much bigger, easier to type on, load any app I want, I can do streaming video even, as there is awesome live music on YouTube that sounds absolutely  fantastic on the DX320 (Kann Max stuttered at even 720p video stream). DX320’s beautiful HD screen, swappable amp cards, and just general ease of use just completely blow away the Kann Max for me.
> 
> Kann Max sounds fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but the usability of it drove me nuts. I was constantly having to transfer files from my iPhone to it. DX320, I can do everything on the device because any app. The first app I installed was Google Play and it was so simple from there. For my money, DX320 is light years better. I think Kann Max would be better if my offline music library was better organized, but if you value streaming at all, DX320 is so much better, in my opinion.


Thanks for this helpful post. I've been considering getting a higher-powered DAP for my Hifiman Arya Stealths.


----------



## subguy812

My experience with the iBasso stuff has, for the most part, been the opposite. I will take AK from a sound quality and UI standpoint all day long. I do utilize local music, but also stream. While it is most definitely more convenient to have access to Google Playstore on iBasso, to me it is not that big of a deal to go to apkpure and download the latest software if I feel the need to update. All of the latest software works fine. It really depends on usage needs. I don't use my DAP to watch videos, I am not cartain the Max will do that, because I never try that. I would assume it wouldn't do near as well as the iBasso, but then again the MAX is a music player.


----------



## palexander

subguy812 said:


> My experience with the iBasso stuff has, for the most part, been the opposite. I will take AK from a sound quality and UI standpoint all day long. I do utilize local music, but also stream. While it is most definitely more convenient to have access to Google Playstore on iBasso, to me it is not that big of a deal to go to apkpure and download the latest software if I feel the need to update. All of the latest software works fine. It really depends on usage needs. I don't use my DAP to watch videos, I am not cartain the Max will do that, because I never try that. I would assume it wouldn't do near as well as the iBasso, but then again the MAX is a music player.


Yeah I get that. To be honest, I do miss the power of the MAX. Particularly with my HD6xx they don’t sound as nice on the iBasso. The MAX has fantastic power, and the DX320 does have EMI issue with the AMP13 that prevents using 5Ghz wireless with it anyhow. I still assert though that from an IT perspective, using old versions of apps, from a non-vetted App Store is not the best security practice as any flaws remain exploited because you can’t update them. I wish A&K would let you completely unlock it, sign a waiver or whatever and let you install anything on it.


----------



## Gymboy

palexander said:


> Yeah I get that. To be honest, I do miss the power of the MAX. Particularly with my HD6xx they don’t sound as nice on the iBasso. The MAX has fantastic power, and the DX320 does have EMI issue with the AMP13 that prevents using 5Ghz wireless with it anyhow. I still assert though that from an IT perspective, using old versions of apps, from a non-vetted App Store is not the best security practice as any flaws remain exploited because you can’t update them. I wish A&K would let you completely unlock it, sign a waiver or whatever and let you install anything on it.


And if MAX had 4x 4493 AKM to sound as warm as first Kann would be ❤


----------



## JasonNYC

All of the APKs available on the download tab of the KANN MAX are coming from AK's servers and not a third party website.  They are all verified, vetted and tested before becoming available for download. The list is updated regularly with newer versions of the apps.


----------



## palexander

JasonNYC said:


> All of the APKs available on the download tab of the KANN MAX are coming from AK's servers and not a third party website.  They are all verified, vetted and tested before becoming available for download. The list is updated regularly with newer versions of the apps.


Yeah but that’s a small subset of the “allowed” list. Why not vet the whole allowed list that way? It would’ve been much simpler than having to use apkpure.


----------



## msr13

The Max is my third A&K. I started with the Sr25, quickly passed through the Alpha when Max came out. As a Mac-based household and Roon user, I have a love-hate relationship with A&K. For me, the sound has been transformational. The 25 was the entree into a whole new world and when I upgraded to Alpha and Max, the differences were even more so. I’m listening now to a Mahler recording I’ve had forever and never knew was so detailed and incredible (thanks go to 64Audio and Eletech, as well).

But the user experience of moving music over, navigating, managing playlists, etc., well, it’s horrible! For example, half the data describing an album or song is gibberish. Not so on Roon, Qobuz, Apple, etc. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but that’s the next complaint… the user manual tells one nothing- except the name of the feature. As someone new to DAPs, A&K should have better reference material.  Or tell me where to find info on YouTube or elsewhere. I’m happy to learn and study… but if the info exists, Part of the fun. I can’t find it. Like choosing which DAC to use. It’s truly pure trial and error. No descriptions whatsoever. Again, happy to play, but come on…🤷‍♂️ A&K, give me something. 😁 Many probably already know this stuff. 

The Android app we have to use on the Mac crashes regularly. I can’t move songs around in a playlist, files don’t stay together if there is just one dash off… For a $1200 handheld computer, I expect better. 

But did I mention the sound is sublime? So I happily deal with those mundane frustrations. I will happily continue to live on my Max. And when I can someday do it, I’ll go Endgame. But by then, hopefully A&K will delve a little… just a little… bit more into user experience— at least for those of us new to the product lines.


----------



## JasonNYC

msr13 said:


> But the user experience of moving music over, navigating, managing playlists, etc., well, it’s horrible! For example, half the data describing an album or song is gibberish. Not so on Roon, Qobuz, Apple, etc. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but that’s the next complaint… the user manual tells one nothing- except the name of the feature. As someone new to DAPs, A&K should have better reference material. Or tell me where to find info on YouTube or elsewhere. I’m happy to learn and study… but if the info exists, Part of the fun. I can’t find it. Like choosing which DAC to use. It’s truly pure trial and error. No descriptions whatsoever. Again, happy to play, but come on…🤷‍♂️ A&K, give me something. 😁 Many probably already know this stuff.


We have a pretty extensive FAQ of most common questions on the AK US site - https://us.astellnkern.com/apps/help-center

We also offer phone support during the hours of 9 am to 5 pm PT for North America customers at (949) 336-4540 and are happy to walk anyone through any questions.  I do agree that documentation can always be improved and we are working on that.



msr13 said:


> The Android app we have to use on the Mac crashes regularly. I can’t move songs around in a playlist, files don’t stay together if there is just one dash off… For a $1200 handheld computer, I expect better.


Unfortunately this is because Apple does not have native support for Android-based devices in MacOS this is an issue with any Android-based product.  This forces anyone with an Android device to use a third party file manager app to recognize the Android device.  Android File Transfer is definitely not the best program out there.  I highly recommend checking out Commander One Pro for Mac.  It is probably the best file manager out there for Android devices.  There is a cost to purchase it from the Mac App store, I believe it is $27.  The free version does not have Android support.


----------



## palexander

msr13 said:


> The Max is my third A&K. I started with the Sr25, quickly passed through the Alpha when Max came out. As a Mac-based household and Roon user, I have a love-hate relationship with A&K. For me, the sound has been transformational. The 25 was the entree into a whole new world and when I upgraded to Alpha and Max, the differences were even more so. I’m listening now to a Mahler recording I’ve had forever and never knew was so detailed and incredible (thanks go to 64Audio and Eletech, as well).
> 
> But the user experience of moving music over, navigating, managing playlists, etc., well, it’s horrible! For example, half the data describing an album or song is gibberish. Not so on Roon, Qobuz, Apple, etc. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but that’s the next complaint… the user manual tells one nothing- except the name of the feature. As someone new to DAPs, A&K should have better reference material.  Or tell me where to find info on YouTube or elsewhere. I’m happy to learn and study… but if the info exists, Part of the fun. I can’t find it. Like choosing which DAC to use. It’s truly pure trial and error. No descriptions whatsoever. Again, happy to play, but come on…🤷‍♂️ A&K, give me something. 😁 Many probably already know this stuff.
> 
> ...


Yeah it does sound fantastic. I would’ve kept it but the frustrations with UI were too much for me. If they’d fix the usability issues I get it again. I just couldn’t deal with it, personally.


----------



## msr13

JasonNYC said:


> We have a pretty extensive FAQ of most common questions on the AK US site - https://us.astellnkern.com/apps/help-center
> 
> We also offer phone support during the hours of 9 am to 5 pm PT for North America customers at (949) 336-4540 and are happy to walk anyone through any questions.  I do agree that documentation can always be improved and we are working on that.
> 
> ...


First… Jason… you rock!!!

Such a quick response and super helpful responses at that!!

I will happily dive into them!! 

Most importantly, my complaints pale in comparison to the bigger objective… sublime sound… something A&K has mastered!

Thank you so much!!!!


----------



## JasonNYC

msr13 said:


> First… Jason… you rock!!!
> 
> Such a quick response and super helpful responses at that!!
> 
> ...


One other thing that I forgot to mention, AK players use the ID3 tags for categorizing album/artist/track info and are pretty unforgiving if the info is incorrect in the ID3 tags.  Some of the other DAPs out there will also use file names and other info and are a bit more lax with ID3 tagging.  Most of the issues are due to incomplete ID3 tags.  

Also highly recommend if you know the ID3 tags are correct and the player is still not displaying info correctly, the best way to fix that is to perform a manual media scan to force the player to re-index and rebuild the internal database.  To perform a manual media scan - Settings -> System Reset - Initialize media scan.  

If you have playlists stored on the player, make sure "Clear Playlists" box is NOT checked.  It can take up to 15 - 20 minutes for the media scan to complete depending on how many files you have in internal memory and microSD card.


----------



## msr13

JasonNYC said:


> One other thing that I forgot to mention, AK players use the ID3 tags for categorizing album/artist/track info and are pretty unforgiving if the info is incorrect in the ID3 tags.  Some of the other DAPs out there will also use file names and other info and are a bit more lax with ID3 tagging.  Most of the issues are due to incomplete ID3 tags.
> 
> Also highly recommend if you know the ID3 tags are correct and the player is still not displaying info correctly, the best way to fix that is to perform a manual media scan to force the player to re-index and rebuild the internal database.  To perform a manual media scan - Settings -> System Reset - Initialize media scan.
> 
> If you have playlists stored on the player, make sure "Clear Playlists" box is NOT checked.  It can take up to 15 - 20 minutes for the media scan to complete depending on how many files you have in internal memory and microSD card.


This is really helpful, Jason. Thank you very much!!!!


----------



## morndewey

So quiet here, I can hear an eartip drop


----------



## uncle b

morndewey said:


> So quiet here, I can hear an eartip drop


Are you basically saying there’s little discussion around and about the MAX? Though not an owner of a MAX, I have been following this thread, and have noticed it a little slow-going. I’ve been intrigued by the MAX, but I’m not necessarily in the market for a new DAP currently. I have to admit, as many dings and blows A&K players can suffer here on head-fi.org, I’ve found them to be pretty great players that maybe lack some excitement due to their “all about the music” simple and dependable software and set-up. I’ve had other DAPs that had more features, browsers, EQ settings, etc. and found myself just wanting to return to the music on an A&K player.


----------



## rocketron

Very funny.


----------



## rocketron

Some times it’s better not too shout and boast about how good your players are and just enjoy them.


----------



## Deferenz

I listened to the Kann Max at London Canjam and I really enjoyed the sound. It’s difficult for me to try and describe it, but it was a different type of sound to that of Hiby and Cayin that I’m used to.


----------



## morndewey

rocketron said:


> Some times it’s better not too shout and boast about how good your players are and just enjoy them.


Yeah I really love how it sounds. 
Nice to have occasional comments just to kick the can around


----------



## gadus

Just enjoy the player and listen to good music with it,
The kann max does not have many features and specifications, it really focuses on excellent sound, the user interface is certainly satisfactory, although it does not give a particularly fun experience, but this player (and basically any music player) is not bought for an experiential user interface, certainly not for viewing, only for music.
And this he does wonderfully!
And yet it's nice to have a discussion and share impressions.


----------



## morndewey

Anyone else hear hissing with all-BA iems?


----------



## gadus

morndewey said:


> Anyone else hear hissing with all-BA iems?


I listened to kann max with empire ears zeus and um mest I didn't notice the hiss.


----------



## msr13

morndewey said:


> Anyone else hear hissing with all-BA iems?


I heard a significant hiss with a set of Andromedas. No settings on the Max changed that. And the hiss occurred with other devices— and did not occur with other IEMs (Noble Tux, Empire Hero, or 64 Audio u12t). An ifi imatch resolved the hiss with the Andromedas with no degradable sound quality (to my ears). I have no idea why just won’t try the Andromedas, but I am sure the Max was not the issue at all.


----------



## iFi audio

msr13 said:


> An ifi imatch resolved the hiss with the Andromedas with no degradable sound quality (to my ears).



Thanks for this feedback and that's what our iEMatch was made for indeed


----------



## AnalogandDigital (Aug 29, 2022)

This looks good ...
.


----------



## pankaj1431

JasonNYC said:


> One other thing that I forgot to mention, AK players use the ID3 tags for categorizing album/artist/track info and are pretty unforgiving if the info is incorrect in the ID3 tags.  Some of the other DAPs out there will also use file names and other info and are a bit more lax with ID3 tagging.  Most of the issues are due to incomplete ID3 tags.
> 
> Also highly recommend if you know the ID3 tags are correct and the player is still not displaying info correctly, the best way to fix that is to perform a manual media scan to force the player to re-index and rebuild the internal database.  To perform a manual media scan - Settings -> System Reset - Initialize media scan.
> 
> If you have playlists stored on the player, make sure "Clear Playlists" box is NOT checked.  It can take up to 15 - 20 minutes for the media scan to complete depending on how many files you have in internal memory and microSD card.


Hi Jason,

Is there any new Firmware expected from Kann Max ? The Wifi sucks on this one with very bad reception and Streaming is not at all possible. Please take this as feedback.


----------



## MikeO3

How are feature requests made for the DAP player software? The info addresses do not appear to be monitored.
Enhancement: Roon Ready service added to the Notification Bar options.

Thanks.


----------



## palexander

I wish A&K would let me root a MAX and flash stock Android. I’d be willing to sign a waiver stating I get no support. I’d love the MAX if I could get rid of A&K’s restrictions. To me, they make little sense. Wireless carriers at least you are using their networks so I get them locking down devices, but for a personal device, I just don’t get the reasoning for locking it down. Let the consumers decide.


----------



## iFi audio

AnalogandDigital said:


> This looks good ...
> .



It sure does, that's a very cool classy finish!


----------



## JasonNYC

pankaj1431 said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> Is there any new Firmware expected from Kann Max ? The Wifi sucks on this one with very bad reception and Streaming is not at all possible. Please take this as feedback.


No ETA on the next firmware update for KANN MAX, but will share info once it is available.


----------



## JasonNYC

MikeO3 said:


> How are feature requests made for the DAP player software? The info addresses do not appear to be monitored.
> Enhancement: Roon Ready service added to the Notification Bar options.
> 
> Thanks.


Are you referring to adding an icon in the notification bar to toggle Roon Ready on and off?


----------



## pankaj1431

JasonNYC said:


> No ETA on the next firmware update for KANN MAX, but will share info once it is available.


Thanks Jason for the reply. There are few small nitty-gritty that needs to be ironed out to make it a great DAP. I will be looking out for New FW, but will share my inputs. I am really enjoying them in Offline mode and using local files.


----------



## MikeO3

JasonNYC said:


> Are you referring to adding an icon in the notification bar to toggle Roon Ready on and off?


Yes, this function.

Thanks!


----------



## RIGATIO

Only in this year ive had the IBasso dx312 EXN, dx320, DX323, AK sp1000, 1000m, Shanling M9, AK Kann Max. Have auditioned the AK sp2kT, Fiio m11 plus ESS, Fiio K9 Pro and a couple more. Honestly the differences between them all are very small sound wise. Maybe the biggest boys like the sp1000 and the M9 were slightly better but not more than 5% lets say.
In the end i ended up with a used Shanling M8 and this dap makes the difference for me.
The sound sig is quite different than any other dap I've heard.
Was surprised that while having the warmest sound of them all, it still is one of the widest and most spacious sounding daps. The M8 has bigger stage than the Kann Max which really surprised me.


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 2, 2022)

palexander said:


> I wish A&K would let me root a MAX and flash stock Android. I’d be willing to sign a waiver stating I get no support. I’d love the MAX if I could get rid of A&K’s restrictions. To me, they make little sense. Wireless carriers at least you are using their networks so I get them locking down devices, but for a personal device, I just don’t get the reasoning for locking it down. Let the consumers decide.


So why don't you just do it? I am confused, you said you would sign a waiver, just root it then. Or are you trying to soapbox on your opinion about locking down devices?


----------



## Gymboy

RIGATIO said:


> Only in this year ive had the IBasso dx312 EXN, dx320, DX323, AK sp1000, 1000m, Shanling M9, AK Kann Max. Have auditioned the AK sp2kT, Fiio m11 plus ESS, Fiio K9 Pro and a couple more. Honestly the differences between them all are very small sound wise. Maybe the biggest boys like the sp1000 and the M9 were slightly better but not more than 5% lets say.
> In the end i ended up with a used Shanling M8 and this dap makes the difference for me.
> The sound sig is quite different than any other dap I've heard.
> Was surprised that while having the warmest sound of them all, it still is one of the widest and most spacious sounding daps. The M8 has bigger stage than the Kann Max which really surprised me.


Have you heard soundstage of M17?


----------



## RIGATIO

Gymboy said:


> Have you heard soundstage of M17?


No i haven't heard the m11 but have heard the Fiio K9 pro and it sounded worse than the M8, seriously. It was very very good but the vocals were too clinical. On the M8 the vocals were more organic and natural. The soundstage and the bass were comparable tho.


----------



## Gymboy

RIGATIO said:


> No i haven't heard the m11 but have heard the Fiio K9 pro and it sounded worse than the M8, seriously. It was very very good but the vocals were too clinical. On the M8 the vocals were more organic and natural. The soundstage and the bass were comparable tho.


Dont forget M17 has more power than K9 Pro, which does  magic to soundstage, expanding it to its limits. I am waiting for PL 50, linear PS from Fiio, which should give even more dynamics to a sound, better frequency transient and warmer low end, when I get it will share the experience. All in all, this will be my endgame I believe. I would like to have one AK dap though, swap it with my DX312 maybe, probably Kann line.


----------



## RIGATIO

Gymboy said:


> Dont forget M17 has more power than K9 Pro, which does  magic to soundstage, expanding it to its limits. I am waiting for PL 50, linear PS from Fiio, which should give even more dynamics to a sound, better frequency transient and warmer low end, when I get it will share the experience. All in all, this will be my endgame I believe. I would like to have one AK dap though, swap it with my DX312 maybe, probably Kann line.


I honestly don't think that any AK dap is better than the dx320. Maybe the sp2k. I've heard it very briefly some time ago in the SS version. But only this one could be compared to the dx320.
The dx320 is on a very high technical level. Especially when you take into account that there are many mods to the dx320 amps. I experienced the dx320 with the ampEXN and it sounded fantastic.


----------



## Oniemtilt

JasonNYC said:


> No ETA on the next firmware update for KANN MAX, but will share info once it is available.


I am so glad (sad) that it’s not just me who has experienced horrible wi-fi reception.  If I am not standing right next to the router I get 0, 1 or 2 bars.  Most of the time it just says no internet reception.  I was beginning to think the internal Wi-Fi antenna was broken.  Are there others out there with the problem (design error) or should I return the unit for repair?


----------



## pankaj1431

Oniemtilt said:


> I am so glad (sad) that it’s not just me who has experienced horrible wi-fi reception.  If I am not standing right next to the router I get 0, 1 or 2 bars.  Most of the time it just says no internet reception.  I was beginning to think the internal Wi-Fi antenna was broken.  Are there others out there with the problem (design error) or should I return the unit for repair?


I too faced the same issue while trying to stream. Wi-Fi reception is worse, doesn't matter whether you are far from the router or just sitting on it . It seems to be design issue and hoping that it can be fixed with Firmware upgrade (if and when it comes)


----------



## Oniemtilt

I don't understand why more users are not talking about this "bug" then.  It sounds like you are in the same boat where the streaming is virtually unusable.  If it was a firmware issue everyone would be talking about it.  Now I'm thinking more that its a problem with the wifi chip or antenna that is affecting some or not all of the units.  I also have an iBasso dx320 and I can use it in exactly the same location in my house where I get NO wifi reception on the AK and get 5 bars on the iBasso.


----------



## rocketron

New AK flagship launch 15sept .
Along with Focal headphone.
Maybe the new flagship will have better wi-fi?


----------



## palexander

subguy812 said:


> So why don't you just do it? I am confused, you said you would sign a waiver, just root it then. Or are you trying to soapbox on your opinion about locking down devices?


I’m assume they lock it to prevent it from being rooted. Are you saying this is not the case? You can’t just root anything you know.


----------



## Oniemtilt

JasonNYC said:


> No ETA on the next firmware update for KANN MAX, but will share info once it is available.


Jason - are you suggesting that the firmware update may fix the Max wifi issue?  I have sent two notes to Invixion support regarding wifi not working with a request to have my unit repaired but have received no response.  Very disappointing.


----------



## JasonNYC

Oniemtilt said:


> Jason - are you suggesting that the firmware update may fix the Max wifi issue?  I have sent two notes to Invixion support regarding wifi not working with a request to have my unit repaired but have received no response.  Very disappointing.


Sent you a PM regarding the support email follow up.

From what I understand speaking to others, the issues primarily started after the last firmware update a few weeks ago.  Can anyone else confirm?


----------



## JasonNYC

Pretty sure the wifi issues is a software bug that had affected other AK players in the past and is specific to certain countries and regions, primarily North America and Europe.  This issue was fixed in a previous firmware update on KANN MAX and other AK players, but it looks like it may have been introduced again in the last v1.10 update.  Will confirm with the software and QA teams.


----------



## MikeO3

JasonNYC said:


> From what I understand speaking to others, the issues primarily started after the last firmware update a few weeks ago.  Can anyone else confirm?


I cannot confirm better or worse after the July update as my heavier usage didn't start till Roon Ready was available. Seems ok for me on ASUS AIMesh and I do expect some drops when changing mesh nodes.

There is room for improvement in radio when compared to other devices within the same vicinity. Interesting to hear if is the same problem you mention in the previous post.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

How would this sound with the UM MEST Indigo my friends?


----------



## gadus

Luke Skywalker said:


> How would this sound with the UM MEST Indigo my friends?


I don't have indigo but with my um mest it sounds great.


----------



## morndewey

Brief static snaps when changing volume via knob or screen. 
Is this normal?


----------



## magicguy

RIGATIO said:


> Only in this year ive had the IBasso dx312 EXN, dx320, DX323, AK sp1000, 1000m, Shanling M9, AK Kann Max. Have auditioned the AK sp2kT, Fiio m11 plus ESS, Fiio K9 Pro and a couple more. Honestly the differences between them all are very small sound wise. Maybe the biggest boys like the sp1000 and the M9 were slightly better but not more than 5% lets say.
> In the end i ended up with a used Shanling M8 and this dap makes the difference for me.
> The sound sig is quite different than any other dap I've heard.
> Was surprised that while having the warmest sound of them all, it still is one of the widest and most spacious sounding daps. The M8 has bigger stage than the Kann Max which really surprised me.


Hummmm I read all this thread.
You seemed to be happy of you purchase (Kann Max).
And suddenly you switched again for an M8, and the M8 became the best ?
You’re talking about soundstage and warmth.
What about definition, resolution… ?

I read many things on M9 vs M8.
I’m very interested in your feedback.

Thx


----------



## subguy812

magicguy said:


> Hummmm I read all this thread.
> You seemed to be happy of you purchase (Kann Max).
> And suddenly you switched again for an M8, and the M8 became the best ?
> You’re talking about soundstage and warmth.
> ...


I had the M8, wonderful player. All of this is subjective. I chose the M8 over pile of players at that time. That said, the Max has everything someone would want, and not have to deal with some of the oddities that occur with the M8


----------



## Oniemtilt

And then there was the S3000…


----------



## magicguy

@subguy812 : You chose too the M8 over Kann Max ?
I hesitated between the M8 and R8 one year ago, I chose the R8 and sell it few months later.
With Erlkonig, this was not the perfect match…


----------



## subguy812

magicguy said:


> @subguy812 : You chose too the M8 over Kann Max ?
> I hesitated between the M8 and R8 one year ago, I chose the R8 and sell it few months later.
> With Erlkonig, this was not the perfect match…


No, I love the Max. I am selling mine because I am gearing up for the SP3K. That said, the Max has driving power that the SP3K won't have so I am on the fence selling my Max.


----------



## Deferenz

subguy812 said:


> No, I love the Max. I am selling mine because I am gearing up for the SP3K. That said, the Max has driving power that the SP3K won't have so I am on the fence selling my Max.


Perhaps keep the Max due to that driving power it has, as it then gives you more options. Meanwhile the SP3K does look sweet…


----------



## subguy812

Deferenz said:


> Perhaps keep the Max due to that driving power it has, as it then gives you more options. Meanwhile the SP3K does look sweet…


It would be nice to sell it to assist with my purchase of SP3K, which I already pre-ordered


----------



## RIGATIO

magicguy said:


> @subguy812 : You chose too the M8 over Kann Max ?
> I hesitated between the M8 and R8 one year ago, I chose the R8 and sell it few months later.
> With Erlkonig, this was not the perfect match…


The M8 is better than the Kann Max. More musical, better soundstage and similar black background.


----------



## magicguy (Sep 18, 2022)

In fact, I’m just fed up with daps with a 5/6 inches screen.
I want a dap, not a portable sedentary set.
On the go I do not use a Diana TC.
I want a portable device with great sound, enough power, streaming and a good battery life…
When I bought my sp1000 I told myself, wow, it’s huge… But ok… When I bought my Hiby R8, it was super huge. I sold it.
Am I asking the impossible ? Lol


----------



## RIGATIO

magicguy said:


> Hummmm I read all this thread.
> You seemed to be happy of you purchase (Kann Max).
> And suddenly you switched again for an M8, and the M8 became the best ?
> You’re talking about soundstage and warmth.
> ...


I was very happy with the Max but there was an issue with its trebles. I was hoping the edginess in this area will disappear with the burn in process but it actually persisted.
I liked the staging and the bass tho. I also had a problem with its lacks of musicallity. I felt that the music didnt really flow. Maybe it was due to the lack of mid bass quantity. The Max felt bit empty there.
The M8 is on a different level in trebles, beying smoother and fuller. It also has great mid bass extension. It just has better dacs and you can hear it easily.
Ive had the sp1000ss and briefly auditioned the sp2000ss. I would put the M8 higher than the sp1000 but lower than the sp2000 in purely technical aspects. But the M8 is for me more musical than the sp2000ss.
The M8 is on a flagship level, the Max is a very good higher mid dap.


----------



## magicguy (Sep 19, 2022)

Thx for your feedback @RIGATIO !
Technicals aspects without musicality is not the goal... I am not a reviewer 
I'll keep the M8 in my mind for my new dap research.

@JasonNYC : let me dream AK with the size of the AK240


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 19, 2022)

magicguy said:


> Thx for your feedback @RIGATIO !
> Technicals aspects without musicality is not the goal... I am not a reviewer
> I'll keep the M8 in my mind for my new dap research.
> 
> @JasonNYC : let me dream AK with the size of the AK240


Not to discredit @RIGATIO , but it is obvious we all hear things differently. I loved the M8, sold it quite a while ago. Picked up a SP2Kt and now have the Max. I hear zero issue with treble or feel there is a lack in musicality. I am happy with the MAX, Period!


----------



## subguy812 (Sep 19, 2022)

To date the best sounding DAPS to me are the AK SP2K and the Cayin N8ii. The Cayin has more authority to drive. I have pre-ordered the SP3K and am excited to hear it. If you wish to see the list I have owned, please see my profile.


----------



## Avenida

palexander said:


> I’m assume they lock it to prevent it from being rooted. Are you saying this is not the case? You can’t just root anything you know.


I’ve managed to run third-party software on A&K. It’s not easy at first. I’ve been testing and I don’t think A&K handle Android’s issues with hi-res sound handling as well as their competition. I’ll need to test more though to be sure.


----------



## gadus

subguy812 said:


> To date the best sounding DAPS to me are the AK SP2K and the Cayin N8ii. The Cayin has more authority to drive. I have pre-ordered the SP3K and am excited to hear it. If you wish to see the list I have owned, please see my profile.


I agree,
I really enjoy kann max, I have no problem with the treble and the bass is also excellent,
I find it absolutely musical,
But it's all a matter of taste and to each his own ear...


----------



## gadus

kann max 
kann max with hifiman arya v3= amazing!!
Detailed, revealing, large sound stage, neutral but smooth signature, in short a pleasure!


----------



## magicguy

It’s always a synergy question I guess.
In my top AK I will add SA700 in terms of sound and price… For iems.
I am sure that for some, M8 is better than Kann Max, and the contrary is also true.


----------



## tb303

@JasonNYC Jason - what is the max allowed Quick Charge standard to be used with Kann Max. Would QC5 or QC4 for instance be still safe without overheating?


----------



## magicguy

Wait'n see if the Max will get the new FW android version of the SP3K


----------



## tb303 (Sep 20, 2022)

Just got my long awaited Kann Max - pairing it with ZMF Atrium and while still burning in DAP, headphone and my brain, even at this early stage I can say that seriously, this is the best combo I have ever had. We can argue whether it is still a mobile or just transportable gear....but hey, if you are looking for the high quality sound, perfect DAP/headphone synergy and a really immersive experience, just go for it. Living in an audiophile world, this combo it is not extremely expensive, however with existing high costs of living and so on, indeed not a cheap one. I have personally sold a number of my other DAPs and headphones, so I can afford it...and let me tell you something, it was the best choice I could ever make. This is my end-game gear for a really long time!


----------



## morndewey

RIGATIO said:


> The M8 is better than the Kann Max. More musical, better soundstage and similar black background.


Kann Max does not have a black background, per my own ears.


----------



## Gymboy

tb303 said:


> Just got my long awaited Kann Max - pairing it with ZMF Atrium and while still burning in DAP, headphone and my brain, even at this early stage I can say that seriously, this is the best combo I have ever had. We can argue whether it is still a mobile or just transportable gear....but hey, if you are looking for the high quality sound, perfect DAP/headphone synergy and a really immersive experience, just go for it. Living in an audiophile world, this combo it is not extremely expensive, however with existing high costs of living and so on, indeed not a cheap one. I have personally sold a number of my other DAPs and headphones, so I can afford it...and let me tell you something, it was the best choice I could ever make. This is my end-game gear for long!


I am also in the market for Atrium, didn't hear Max but has M17. This HP is gonna happen likely next year, owning Cascade and LCD 2 2021 closed back, Cascade is my cup of tea. And yeah my combo is M17 + PL 50.


----------



## tb303

Gymboy said:


> I am also in the market for Atrium, didn't hear Max but has M17. This HP is gonna happen likely next year, owning Cascade and LCD 2 2021 closed back, Cascade is my cup of tea. And yeah my combo is M17 + PL 50.


Lucky me! I will have M17 for longer next week so can make a direct comparison.


----------



## gadus

tb303 said:


> Just got my long awaited Kann Max - pairing it with ZMF Atrium and while still burning in DAP, headphone and my brain, even at this early stage I can say that seriously, this is the best combo I have ever had. We can argue whether it is still a mobile or just transportable gear....but hey, if you are looking for the high quality sound, perfect DAP/headphone synergy and a really immersive experience, just go for it. Living in an audiophile world, this combo it is not extremely expensive, however with existing high costs of living and so on, indeed not a cheap one. I have personally sold a number of my other DAPs and headphones, so I can afford it...and let me tell you something, it was the best choice I could ever make. This is my end-game gear for a really long time!


The Atrium is really an excellent headset! From my experience with kann max you will only enjoy it more later!
Renew and enjoy!


----------



## magicguy

Some users with iems could give me his feedback please ?


----------



## tb303 (Sep 28, 2022)

Folks, just a quick update - I finally had a chance to directly compare Fiio M17 and Kann Max. Obviously way more testing would be required to come up with detailed results covering a high number of parameters defining the sound quality and it's signature, so let's just go straight to the point: Kann Max is a better sounding DAP, at least in my opinion. In terms of separation, positioning, macro details, soundstage, bass quality Kann beats M17. Fiio obviously has a better and smoother DAP operating system (full Android), however Kann sounds more refined, it is just insane to experience when paired with a good headphones and better than stock cable. Not saying M17 is bad, maybe I just don't have headphones forming a great synergy with M17 and allowing it to shine. M17 reminds me the old good Kann Alpha, a great DAP, however once you compare to Kann Max, there is no competition.


----------



## Gymboy

tb303 said:


> Folks, just a quick update - I finally had a chance to directly compare Fioo M17 and Kann Max. Obviously way more testing would be required to come up with detailed results covering a high number of parameters defining the sound quality and it's signature, so let's just go straight to the point: Kann Max is a better sounding DAP. In terms of separation, positioning, macro details, bass quality Kann beats M17. Fioo has better and smoother DAP operating system, however Kann sounds more refined, it is just insane when paired with a good headphones and cable. Not saying M17 is bad, maybe I don't have headphones forming a great synergy with M17, but M17 reminds me the old Kann alpha. Great DAP, however once you compare to Kann Max, there is no competition.


Did you use over head ear mode? With PL50 or stock DC? What headphones did you listen to?


----------



## magicguy

RIGATIO said:


> I honestly don't think that any AK dap is better than the dx320. Maybe the sp2k. I've heard it very briefly some time ago in the SS version. But only this one could be compared to the dx320.
> The dx320 is on a very high technical level. Especially when you take into account that there are many mods to the dx320 amps. I experienced the dx320 with the ampEXN and it sounded fantastic.


On paper, I agree with you regarding the DX320.
But it’s always a synergy question I think.
And what kind of music you are listening to.
I have been listening many times the sp2k in the past few years, the sound is very technical, I like it with pop/jazz/classical.
When I listen to « modern » music such as electro/metal, I will not choose the sp2k.
This last is too into the contemplation, refinement.
I never try the DX320, so I cannot say anything on it.


----------



## tb303

Gymboy said:


> Did you use over head ear mode? With PL50 or stock DC? What headphones did you listen to?


Hi - to make sure this is a fair competition, having the following options: low gain, medium gain, high gain and big ear mode, I went for high gain, as having it connected to charger makes it no longer portable. Kann Max also on high. Both connected to ZMF Atrium via silver plated balanced cable.


----------



## Gymboy

tb303 said:


> Hi - to make sure this is a fair competition, having the following options: low gain, medium gain, high gain and big ear mode, I went for high gain, as having it connected to charger makes it no longer portable. Kann Max also on high. Both connected to ZMF Atrium via silver plated balanced cable.


In that case, Kann Max had the advantage of power output which will give 300ohm headphones better dynamics and stronger bottom end, not apple to apple comparison exactly. Comparing SP2000 to M17 on fully fledged headphones wouldn't  be fair either, but on iems would be.


----------



## MikeO3

JasonNYC said:


> No ETA on the next firmware update for KANN MAX, but will share info once it is available.


Roon have released RoonARC & Roon Remote 2.0 recently which would be nice to also have included in the next feature update.


----------



## tb303

Gymboy said:


> In that case, Kann Max had the advantage of power output which will give 300ohm headphones better dynamics and stronger bottom end, not apple to apple comparison exactly. Comparing SP2000 to M17 on fully fledged headphones wouldn't  be fair either, but on iems would be.


Well, we all hear differently and have own preferences. Whenever options are compared, there is always a criterion - in my case it was my subjectively tested sound quality of a portable gear. I will certainly try M17 with a charger, it may indeed sound differently or even better (without trying to define now what better means), however it is no longer portable, so from my perspective a worse option.


----------



## uncle b

tb303 said:


> Folks, just a quick update - I finally had a chance to directly compare Fiio M17 and Kann Max. Obviously way more testing would be required to come up with detailed results covering a high number of parameters defining the sound quality and it's signature, so let's just go straight to the point: Kann Max is a better sounding DAP, at least in my opinion. In terms of separation, positioning, macro details, bass quality Kann beats M17. Fiio obviously has a better and smoother DAP operating system (full Android), however Kann sounds more refined, it is just insane to experience when paired with a good headphones and better than stock cable. Not saying M17 is bad, maybe I just don't have headphones forming a great synergy with M17 and allowing it to shine. M17 reminds me the old good Kann Alpha, a great DAP, however once you compare to Kann Max, there is no competition.


This is high praise for the MAX, as the M17 has been justly celebrated here on head-fi ever since its release. By extension, I like to see some positive praise for Astell & Kern. Between the MAX and the forthcoming SP3000, it seems as though A&K is trending upwards in their respect in the community here and elsewhere.


----------



## Gymboy

tb303 said:


> Well, we all hear differently and have own preferences. Whenever options are compared, there is always a criterion - in my case it was my subjectively tested sound quality of a portable gear. I will certainly try M17 with a charger, it may indeed sound differently or even better (without trying to define now what better means), however it is no longer portable, so from my perspective a worse option.


I would like to try Kann Max and do comparison to M17, had long time ago original Kann and loved it, warm and lush. Went for M17 as it was best bang for buck.


----------



## JasonNYC

MikeO3 said:


> Roon have released RoonARC & Roon Remote 2.0 recently which would be nice to also have included in the next feature update.


Should have an update soon regarding Roon Arc and AK players and will post the info once I have it.


----------



## vicens bosch

Good evening, I wanted to ask if the problems with the Wi-Fi connection have already been solved, from what I see is that from the sp series they already mount the 2.4/5 ghz Wi-Fi, I wanted to acquire one and most of the use would be with qobuz .

Cheers


----------



## tb303

vicens bosch said:


> Good evening, I wanted to ask if the problems with the Wi-Fi connection have already been solved, from what I see is that from the sp series they already mount the 2.4/5 ghz Wi-Fi, I wanted to acquire one and most of the use would be with qobuz .
> 
> Cheers


I have no issues connecting to 2.4ghz


----------



## tb303 (Sep 29, 2022)

Another update to all those interested in comparison of Fiio M17 with Kann Max. Having tried all M17 gain options, including the headphone dedicated one and the other one that requires charger to be plugged in, I can confirm that the more power I push through my cans, the more dynamic the sound is, it also has more body, more lower bass, is less congested...however if compared to Kann Max, again, I would go for Kann Max. Again, maybe headphones I tested it with were not the best match for Fiio M17 to shine, however ZMF Atrium sounds better to my ears than M17 (there is a lot of reviews online so you can check how others describe ZMF Atrium frequency characteristics and can realize how this type of sound pairs with various types of headphones). To my ears, ZMF Atrium with Kann Max is less congested, more transparent, low frequencies don't negatively impact the clarity of mid-frequency details, soundstage is wider, with better precision and instrument positioning. Sound is analytical however still not harsh or lifeless. If I was looking for more bass, the chocolate feel sound, I would probably like M17 more, specially if wide soundstage is not something what benefits the music genre you would normally listen to. At the end of the day, I still have a few pairs of headphones to go through so will keep you posted. Treble wide soundstage and details focused headphones though would probably sound just great with M17, however I unfortunately have none to test - also my feeling is that bassy cans will not sound great on M17 (no synergy due to excessive bass, too many details lost, likely muddy sound signature). Warm DAP paired with warm headphones is simply not my cup of tea, however again, we all have our own preferences.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

magicguy said:


> On paper, I agree with you regarding the DX320.
> But it’s always a synergy question I think.
> And what kind of music you are listening to.
> I have been listening many times the sp2k in the past few years, the sound is very technical, I like it with pop/jazz/classical.
> ...


That's great to hear. Waiting for my liquid metal DX320 to ship


----------



## cleg

My video about A&K KANN MAX. For me, it's another proof that KANN is the most cost-effective model line in A&K's portfolio. I mean model is a proof, not my review


----------



## Gymboy

cleg said:


> My video about A&K KANN MAX. For me, it's another proof that KANN is the most cost-effective model line in A&K's portfolio. I mean model is a proof, not my review



No comparison with M17.


----------



## vicens bosch

good morning, someone with max with problems playing qobuz, someone has sound stops in qobuz or tidal


----------



## MikeO3

vicens bosch said:


> good morning, someone with max with problems playing qobuz, someone has sound stops in qobuz or tidal


Tidal has no issues for me.


----------



## Luke Skywalker (Oct 17, 2022)

Luke Skywalker said:


> That's great to hear. Waiting for my liquid metal DX320 to ship


Got the DX320. What an amazing device… the sound is infinitely superior to my iPhone 12 Pro Max -> iFi Gryphon

Now I understand why people spend thousands of dollars on DAPs


----------



## cleg

Gymboy said:


> No comparison with M17.



I wanted to focus on players of similar price tiers. M17 is an "unfair" competitor, especially on AC power, it's a beast  So M17 is more dynamic and shows better control


----------



## Superpong

I did some experiments and found some confusing issues as follows:

1) AK Kaan Alpha & Max -> USB C OTG / Micro -> my Hugo2 

The sound is really distorted with lot of noise. Sometimes AK lost connections with Hugo2

2) My laptop running Jriver Media Center 30 -> the same cable as 1) -> Hugo2

This works great!

3) I suspect that my AK Kann Alpha & Max may be broken so I set another combo: AK Kaan Alpha & Max > USB C OTG / Type B -> Topping DX7 pro 

And this setup also works great.

What’s wrong with the combo 1)? Did I miss something? Or does Alpha & Max not support this type of connection?


----------



## emdeevee

I just received my new Max, my second DAP following the Sr15, so a big step up. I'll be listening on UE Pro18+ thru UE 2.5mm balanced cable. I was hoping some of you experts could give me some advice on burn in, ideal settings for the gain, interesting dac filters and their effects, etc. There's so much more here than I had on the old Sr15, I'm really confused but excited. 

With that said, upon receipt, I turned it on and listened to a couple of staples to see what my immediate reaction would be compared to the Sr15. Wow, even on low gain, it was beautiful. 

And finally, I have to give a shout out to that little Sr15, which looks like a baby compared to the Max, because the little sucker really does sound amazing. 

Now into the spiral of learning how to listen to  the Max!! Thanks for any advice or tips!!! I'm pretty new here, so go easy!


----------



## MikeO3 (Nov 5, 2022)

emdeevee said:


> I just received my new Max, my second DAP following the Sr15, so a big step up. I'll be listening on UE Pro18+ thru UE 2.5mm balanced cable. I was hoping some of you experts could give me some advice on burn in, ideal settings for the gain, interesting dac filters and their effects, etc. There's so much more here than I had on the old Sr15, I'm really confused but excited.


Congrats on your player!

For the better part of a week, I ran a burn-in track every night. I never see the need to use filters or adjustments on this device as I prefer as recorded with no alterations with my Senn's. For the IEM, sometimes I may use crossfade but that's about it.

Have fun and enjoy!


----------



## emdeevee (Nov 5, 2022)

Thanks for the tips! I'll try the crossfade. What do you think it does?

Also, what do you think happened in the sound following the burn in? Is the player really changing or are your ears really just adjusting to its sound?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

MikeO3 said:


> Congrats on your player!
> 
> For the better part of a week, I ran a burn-in track every night. I never see the need to use filters or adjustments on this device as I prefer as recorded with no alterations with my Senn's. For the IEM, sometimes I may use crossfade but that's about it.
> 
> Have fun and enjoy!


Which track my friend? I’m getting SP 3000.


----------



## MikeO3

Luke Skywalker said:


> Which track my friend? I’m getting SP 3000.


Track 76 on a loop.
2xHD – Audiophile HiRes System Test


----------



## MikeO3

emdeevee said:


> Thanks for the tips! I'll try the crossfade. What do you think it does?
> 
> Also, what do you think happened in the sound following the burn in? Is the player really changing or are your ears really just adjusting to its sound?


oops... typo... Crossfeed. It adjusts stereo divergence effect between the L-R channels. Try it on 1960's Stones or mono recordings.

As for burn-in, honestly can't say I noticed... Matter of habit to do for all my electronics. Basically get's the stink of _new component_ out and let's things heat-up to above normal operating for an extended period of time.


----------



## emdeevee

Crossfeed took those mono Beatles recordings, which thru balanced output were extremely separated, and created a Soundstage to rock them perfectly! Thank you!


----------



## Oniemtilt

if anyone is interested I have a virtually new Kann Max with brown 






A&K leather cover I will sell for $1k.  Replaced it with the SP3k.  DM me if interested.  U.S. only.  The white specks in the photos are lint, not scratches.


----------



## emdeevee

gadus said:


> I don't have indigo but with my um mest it sounds great.


I will let you know in a few days!


----------



## audiadem

I’m new to this forum and I’m new to high-end audio as well. I have no background on any of the technicalities relating to the audiophile world. My knowledge and experience on the matter is rudimentary at best.

I just bought a Kann Max and Meze 109 Pro after stumbling on their reviews on YouTube. I have never owned over-the-ear  headphones or a DAP or anything close to a HIFI system in my life so owning these two pieces of audio kit is a real treat.

I can’t really make a review of either item that can significantly contribute to what more knowledgeable and experienced people have already done. All I can say is that both the Kann Max and the 109 Pro are fantastic!

I just need to learn about DAC filters and which one I should use. The Kann defaults to Apodizing something. Based on some of my reading online they said that Linear fast falloff is recommended so I put it to that. I’d like to know what your thoughts are. Thanks


----------



## MikeO3

Glad to hear your enjoying your new audio kit and welcome to the forum!

I don't use filters or signal processing much so others can answer your question however, you are the one who matters when listening to something. If it sounds good to you then keep smiling... If applying recommended filters or EQ, and if it sounds good to you consider you learned something from someone who recommended something. Doesn't always means it's better especially if you don't hear the difference!

Use hi-res audio media when you can it brings out the best of this device.

Enjoy and rock on!!


----------



## morndewey (Nov 14, 2022)

audiadem said:


> I’m new to this forum and I’m new to high-end audio as well. I have no background on any of the technicalities relating to the audiophile world. My knowledge and experience on the matter is rudimentary at best.
> 
> I just bought a Kann Max and Meze 109 Pro after stumbling on their reviews on YouTube. I have never owned over-the-ear  headphones or a DAP or anything close to a HIFI system in my life so owning these two pieces of audio kit is a real treat.
> 
> ...


The filters can be very difficult to discern among. They’re mostly damn subtle. Brick wall is a good baseline to test others. I believe it’s A&K semi-equivalent of NOS? Either way, to my ears, brick wall is just that—devoid of resonance/decay save for what is strictly there in recording.


----------



## audiadem

MikeO3 said:


> Glad to hear your enjoying your new audio kit and welcome to the forum!
> 
> I don't use filters or signal processing much so others can answer your question however, you are the one who matters when listening to something. If it sounds good to you then keep smiling... If applying recommended filters or EQ, and if it sounds good to you consider you learned something from someone who recommended something. Doesn't always means it's better especially if you don't hear the difference!
> 
> ...


Thank you. Currently I’m using Tidal on max quality and it’s such a joy to listen to. I plan to fill an sd card with some tracks and eventually just use that. I just have to look for good quality tracks from online.


----------



## joneil

I'm a newbie as well. I purchased the Kann Max to pair with my new Focal Stellia headphones. I am still amazed at how incredible the music sounds! And, while I LOVE the sound and design of the Max, the UI could be better, especially for its price and release date. I've also had some challenges streaming Roon, but hopefully, that will be fixed, along with adding Roon Arc to the Max.


----------



## audiadem

morndewey said:


> The filters can be very difficult to discern among. There mostly damn subtle. Brick wall is a good baseline to test others. I believe it’s A&K semi-equivalent of NOS? Either way, to my ears, brick wall is just that—devoid of resonance/decay save for what is strictly there in recording.


What does NOS stand for? I’m thinking nitrous oxide but that’s a different hobby 😄. I guess I’ll try to play around with the filters using one track as reference and see IF (and that’s a Big “if”) I can even discern the difference.


----------



## emdeevee

joneil said:


> I'm a newbie as well. I purchased the Kann Max to pair with my new Focal Stellia headphones. I am still amazed at how incredible the music sounds! And, while I LOVE the sound and design of the Max, the UI could be better, especially for its price and release date. I've also had some challenges streaming Roon, but hopefully, that will be fixed, along with adding Roon Arc to the Max.


I'm a noob here also. I recently got the Max and am using them with Mest Indigo (which sounds bueno to me!). I just got the Roon set up and it sounds terrific, I just wish I could control the library from my Max. Roon ready acts like a great pass through, but we need the full control of the Roon app on the device.


----------



## Oniemtilt

If anyone is interested my Kann Max (with leather cover) is on eBay with current bid of $699.  US only.


----------



## emdeevee

morndewey said:


> The filters can be very difficult to discern among. There mostly damn subtle. Brick wall is a good baseline to test others. I believe it’s A&K semi-equivalent of NOS? Either way, to my ears, brick wall is just that—devoid of resonance/decay save for what is strictly there in recording.


Thanks, I will give that one some legwork. I've been drawn back to the hybrid fast roll off, but honestly, might not be able to actually discern much if any differences between them.


----------



## morndewey

audiadem said:


> What does NOS stand for? I’m thinking nitrous oxide but that’s a different hobby 😄. I guess I’ll try to play around with the filters using one track as reference and see IF (and that’s a Big “if”) I can even discern the difference.


NOS means ‘non-oversampling’
That’s funny about Nitrous oxide


----------



## nephilim32

Hi fellas. 

Gonna be a part of the family. Ordered the KANN MAX! 
Should have it in a couple of weeks.


----------



## emdeevee

nephilim32 said:


> Hi fellas.
> 
> Gonna be a part of the family. Ordered the KANN MAX!
> Should have it in a couple of weeks.


Welcome to the club! Enjoy this beast and the sweet power! It's making me go nuts buying headphones!


----------



## nephilim32

emdeevee said:


> Welcome to the club! Enjoy this beast and the sweet power! It's making me go nuts buying headphones!


Terrific to hear. I’m gonna do some cool things with the line out feature. Getting a dual 3 pin male XLR to a 4.4mm pentagon to run off my WA 22 amp.  

I think that will be rad. Tell me if I’m wrong?


----------



## nephilim32

Also gentlemen. Let me know if anyone here as MAX owners have experimented with running the Kann Max balanced out of a balanced amplifier. 

Thanks a million and I’m very happy to have this early Christmas present to myself. I have had the AK JR for 7 years now. 🤪
Time for an upgrade. Badly. Lol.


----------



## emdeevee

Would love to hear people's reactions to the sound quality versus the other AK DAPs. Does the "new" give you upgrades approaching the prior flagship? How much more sound does an SP2000 present in comparison? It seems clear from all reports it is the best sounding Kann, but how does that stack up? Does it continue the KANN trend of falling below those and why?


----------



## Gymboy

Once you try M17 on  PL50 then you would be confused.


----------



## pankaj1431

JasonNYC said:


> Should have an update soon regarding Roon Arc and AK players and will post the info once I have it.


Hey Jason,

Any update about new FW to support Roon Arc and solve Wifi issues?

Cheers
Pankaj


----------



## emdeevee

pankaj1431 said:


> Hey Jason,
> 
> Any update about new FW to support Roon Arc and solve Wifi issues?
> 
> ...


I tried the Roon ready feature but saw no reason to spend $ to support that, so canceled. Maybe with full ARC control, I'll reconsider.


----------



## JasonNYC

pankaj1431 said:


> Hey Jason,
> 
> Any update about new FW to support Roon Arc and solve Wifi issues?
> 
> ...


Roon ARC support should be added in the next firmware update coming soon.  No ETA yet on when it will be available.  Will update once I have more info.


----------



## morndewey

Sent my KMax to A&K warranty repair.
Like I mentioned awhile back, I’ve continued to have mild static clicking when adjusting volume, both knob and touch screen. Didn’t always happen but frequently enough since late June.
Also had very noticeable hissing with my all-BA iems, two of them, one of which I sold (for other reasons).
Posted question as to whether anyone else had same issues but I don’t think anyone replied, one way or the other. 
Really hope this gets resolved. 
Very much missing the sound of this dap


----------



## emdeevee

morndewey said:


> Sent my KMax to A&K warranty repair.
> Like I mentioned awhile back, I’ve continued to have mild static clicking when adjusting volume, both knob and touch screen. Didn’t always happen but frequently enough since late June.
> Also had very noticeable hissing with my all-BA iems, two of them, one of which I sold (for other reasons).
> Posted question as to whether anyone else had same issues but I don’t think anyone replied, one way or the other.
> ...


That sucks, sorry to hear that. I've had none of those issues with my Max, which has maybe only 50 hours so far.  I'm loving it!


----------



## pankaj1431

emdeevee said:


> I tried the Roon ready feature but saw no reason to spend $ to support that, so canceled. Maybe with full ARC control, I'll reconsider.


I just made use of Black Friday deal from Roon (2$ for 3 months) and wanted to experience all the hype about it 😁


----------



## emdeevee

pankaj1431 said:


> I just made use of Black Friday deal from Roon (2$ for 3 months) and wanted to experience all the hype about it 😁


As someone who has worked hard to organize a digital music collection, all of which can now reside on a micro SD of 1TB with lots of room for growth, I don't understand what Roon will bring me. I use my DAP and headphones for music, and my DAP can display lyrics if I want it to. What is Roon doing for those who don't need streaming?


----------



## MikeO3

emdeevee said:


> As someone who has worked hard to organize a digital music collection, all of which can now reside on a micro SD of 1TB with lots of room for growth, I don't understand what Roon will bring me. I use my DAP and headphones for music, and my DAP can display lyrics if I want it to. What is Roon doing for those who don't need streaming?


Roon is a multi endpoint control system which let's you stream to devices using a proprietary protocol called RAAT (and supports others). This enables native format music to be streamed which includes the Kann Maxx as an end point. One of my use cases is enabling Roon Ready on the DAP and then using my tablet to play music. If I want to change rooms or devices, I simply redirect the queue to that device or add another room and get a whole home broadcast. Read more here.

I am glad you can fit your library on a card... Mine is a little large for that so Roon or JRiver are used to curate playlists and then I upload to my 1Tb card for portable. Roon ARC which was also mentioned enables streaming of the Roon library and also downloaded use of the media files.


----------



## emdeevee

MikeO3 said:


> Roon is a multi endpoint control system which let's you stream to devices using a proprietary protocol called RAAT (and supports others). This enables native format music to be streamed which includes the Kann Maxx as an end point. One of my use cases is enabling Roon Ready on the DAP and then using my tablet to play music. If I want to change rooms or devices, I simply redirect the queue to that device or add another room and get a whole home broadcast. Read more here.
> 
> I am glad you can fit your library on a card... Mine is a little large for that so Roon or JRiver are used to curate playlists and then I upload to my 1Tb card for portable. Roon ARC which was also mentioned enables streaming of the Roon library and also downloaded use of the media files.


So maybe if my library grows to such a size, I'll want it then. This rig is for my head only, already have music through the home.


----------



## tb303

audiadem said:


> I’m new to this forum and I’m new to high-end audio as well. I have no background on any of the technicalities relating to the audiophile world. My knowledge and experience on the matter is rudimentary at best.
> 
> I just bought a Kann Max and Meze 109 Pro after stumbling on their reviews on YouTube. I have never owned over-the-ear  headphones or a DAP or anything close to a HIFI system in my life so owning these two pieces of audio kit is a real treat.
> 
> ...


Hi, DAC filters will change your sound signature, apodizing is objectively just bad, other filters can be justified depending on your headphones' synergy. Few examples: you can make your sound a bit warmer by choosing hybrid or improve soundstage by selecting fast roll-off, minimum phase.


----------



## emdeevee

tb303 said:


> Hi, DAC filters will change your sound signature, apodizing is objectively just bad, other filters can be justified depending on your headphones' synergy. Few examples: you can make your sound a bit warmer by choosing hybrid or improve soundstage by selecting fast roll-off, minimum phase.


Funny, cuz that's what it was set at on default, but appreciate your suggestions. I've been playing with them. And for my incoming Audeze LCD-i4, learning to carefully adjust and create EQs. Love this little machine.


----------



## gauravgalaxy25

Dear All, I was planning to buy ifi Gryphon but then saw these nice looking  DAPs. Could you please help me how the DAC n AMP of 'Kann Max' perform wrt mojo2 and gryphon. I know these both are half the cost of kann max but if you ignore the player part how will these compare. Will kann max be more future proof? Thanks for help


----------



## Oniemtilt

They are totally different products.  Mojo2 (I am selling my like new one on eBay), is a DAC/AMP that requires a source (your iPhone, a computer, etc.).  A DAP includes the source and player which could be streaming (Quobuz, Tidal, etc.), a hard-drive, or micro-sd card installed in the DAP itself.  I own the iBasso dx320, A&K 3k (replaced my Kann Max), and HiBy RS6 and they are all great - but obviously cost multiples of the Mojo2 because they are different products.  If you are using it primarily at your desktop there is no particularly good reason to spend the money on a high-end DAP and the Mojo2 sound is awesome.  The reason I have DAPs is that I travel a lot and found that it was inconvenient to have my iPhone plugged into my Mojo2 when I needed to use my phone for other purposes.  The only other comment I'll make about the Mojo2 is that somewhat inexplicably it only has (2) 3.5mm unbalanced headphone jacks.  If you are a believer that balanced is superior to unbalanced (I personally can't hear a difference) then the Mojo2 is not for you.


----------



## gauravgalaxy25

Oniemtilt said:


> They are totally different products.  Mojo2 (I am selling my like new one on eBay), is a DAC/AMP that requires a source (your iPhone, a computer, etc.).  A DAP includes the source and player which could be streaming (Quobuz, Tidal, etc.), a hard-drive, or micro-sd card installed in the DAP itself.  I own the iBasso dx320, A&K 3k (replaced my Kann Max), and HiBy RS6 and they are all great - but obviously cost multiples of the Mojo2 because they are different products.  If you are using it primarily at your desktop there is no particularly good reason to spend the money on a high-end DAP and the Mojo2 sound is awesome.  The reason I have DAPs is that I travel a lot and found that it was inconvenient to have my iPhone plugged into my Mojo2 when I needed to use my phone for other purposes.  The only other comment I'll make about the Mojo2 is that somewhat inexplicably it only has (2) 3.5mm unbalanced headphone jacks.  If you are a believer that balanced is superior to unbalanced (I personally can't hear a difference) then the Mojo2 is not for you.


Great inputs. You are right, my use case is actually diferent and mojo2 or gryphon would better suit me for that. I thought to consider Kann Max only because of its power and not sure, I thought may be it had better sound quality. But as per your points, I think I can save good money by buying a DAC without compromising with sound quaity. I'm also more interested in Gryphon as it has bluetooth and 4.4 connector for higher power output qhich can help driving my planer headphone better. Thank you


----------



## mRaaghava

Oniemtilt said:


> They are totally different products.  Mojo2 (I am selling my like new one on eBay), is a DAC/AMP that requires a source (your iPhone, a computer, etc.).  A DAP includes the source and player which could be streaming (Quobuz, Tidal, etc.), a hard-drive, or micro-sd card installed in the DAP itself.  I own the iBasso dx320, A&K 3k (replaced my Kann Max), and HiBy RS6 and they are all great - but obviously cost multiples of the Mojo2 because they are different products.  If you are using it primarily at your desktop there is no particularly good reason to spend the money on a high-end DAP and the Mojo2 sound is awesome.  The reason I have DAPs is that I travel a lot and found that it was inconvenient to have my iPhone plugged into my Mojo2 when I needed to use my phone for other purposes.  The only other comment I'll make about the Mojo2 is that somewhat inexplicably it only has (2) 3.5mm unbalanced headphone jacks.  If you are a believer that balanced is superior to unbalanced (I personally can't hear a difference) then the Mojo2 is not for you.


As you used dx320, kann max and rs6. Can you describe SQ of each one, comparing all the three? If one of the three should be chosen, then which one will be the preferred one?


----------



## emdeevee

I've been pushing my Kann Max these past couple months and also done a lot of reading on all the AK players. I've discovered lots of things and grown a real admiration for this little power puncher. 

One thing I'll say is that I've read widely that people think AK equalizers are ineffective. I have found the opposite, in fact, the power of the built in parametric EQ is quite real. 

I bought a notoriously needing-EQ in ear, the Audeze LCD-i4. If you know anything about that aural piece of joy, you know how important it is to be able to adjust EQ to make it show its real abilities. The Audeze also famously require strong, clean power to harness that EQ and give you the necessary volume. 

I have found the Kann Max to very capably handle these tasks and in reading about all the players out there in the price point, I'm thinking this AK could be an unsung hero in the myriad DAPs of its class as well as a real contender with its higher-considered siblings like the SP2k, though I cannot make a direct comparison. What I can say is that folks complaining that their AK EQ doesn't do anything may need to upgrade cuz this thing not only graphically allows highly precise EQ settings, but also makes those differences in the sound very distinctly evident and satisfying (unless you're listening to DSD which does not seem to allow the EQ at all, and maybe this is people's confusion).  

Pairing that ability with the high, and even super gain amps, and magic occurs that sounds like nothing I've ever heard through IEMs or full headphones. I know that the TOTL must cost that much for a reason, but exactly how much better sound will you realize, 5%, 50%? I think it's got to be a game of diminishing returns at this point!  

Finally, driving these LCD-i4s with the Kann Max is a beautiful pairing for me (ymmv, but see attached with modded Indigo wire) and I'm absolutely loving it, and all my other sets which I sometimes EQ (eg, I find CTM needs a little help, and am beginning to fool around with the HD800s). 

I'll end with a complaint because what good hifier wouldn't with an AK!? I can't get any downloaded APKs to be recognized in the Open Service folder, including the XAPK Installer. This part is annoying, but at least the sound is great!


----------



## Oniemtilt

mRaaghava said:


> As you used dx320, kann max and rs6. Can you describe SQ of each one, comparing all the three? If one of the three should be chosen, then which one will be the preferred one?


Honestly, they all sound great to me, though the Kann max has a high gain setting that allows one to get more volume out of low sensitivity headphones/iems.  The biggest difference to me, honestly, is the operating systems.  The A&K are notoriously slow - and the wifi reception on my Kann Max (and SP3k) is not great.  The OS on the iBasso and HiBy are both much faster and the wifi reception is better.  If you are only playing music from a micro-sd (they can all take up to 1tb cards I believe) you shouldn't care much about the OS as they all have separate dedicated OS's for playing music off a drive (vs. streaming).  If you are streaming a lot, frankly I would go for the dx 320, or if you want something smaller and more portable, then the HiBy.  Just my opinion though.  I am far from a professional reviewer.


----------



## Prach

Hi,
I have a few questions about Kann Max.
- The CPU is quad core. Any lagging or delaying UI?
- Can the battery be replaced? The back panel is the solid aluminum. So, it need to remove the screen for battery replacement?

Thx, all


----------



## Oniemtilt

Mine was still laggy.  I don't think it's the processor, I think they are using an old version of Android.  The battery is not user replaceable.


----------



## Prach

Oniemtilt said:


> Mine was still laggy.  I don't think it's the processor, I think they are using an old version of Android.  The battery is not user replaceable.


Thanks.


----------



## emdeevee

It's Android 11, I believe, so pretty high for a DAP. Still, I cannot install non streaming apks.


----------



## mRaaghava

Oniemtilt said:


> Honestly, they all sound great to me, though the Kann max has a high gain setting that allows one to get more volume out of low sensitivity headphones/iems.  The biggest difference to me, honestly, is the operating systems.  The A&K are notoriously slow - and the wifi reception on my Kann Max (and SP3k) is not great.  The OS on the iBasso and HiBy are both much faster and the wifi reception is better.  If you are only playing music from a micro-sd (they can all take up to 1tb cards I believe) you shouldn't care much about the OS as they all have separate dedicated OS's for playing music off a drive (vs. streaming).  If you are streaming a lot, frankly I would go for the dx 320, or if you want something smaller and more portable, then the HiBy.  Just my opinion though.  I am far from a professional reviewer.


My usage is 50:50 with local playback and streaming. Wifi issues, I too have faced when I auditioned Max yesterday. But same thing on their SP3K is unacceptable. Having very good SQ along with crappy UI is not what majority will prefer when getting a new DAP. Pricing, premium wise following Apple philosophy will only work when they have iOS kind of fluidity. Else, they will seriously lag behind the competitors as is the case with A&K. As much as I liked SQ of A&K DAPs, I can’t simply put up with such erratic OS. They would do lot better if they remove streaming capabilities and use bare bones UI like what Lotoo and Sony(WM1A/Z) does. 

Coming back, yes I may prefer any one among iBasso/HiBy/Shanling. Thank you.


----------



## mRaaghava

emdeevee said:


> It's Android 11, I believe, so pretty high for a DAP. Still, I cannot install non streaming apks.


Oh is it? Android 11? I thought it’s Android 6/7. That’s how outdated and laggy it is.


----------



## Kevintj604

I updated from the KANN Alpha. Noticable difference in resolution on all the headphones that I tried. I'm very happy with the upgrade so far. 

MM-500 is a lovely pairing. I was running in Super mode. The MM doesn't need that much power but I was noticing a bit more dynamic punch with more power available.


----------



## emdeevee

mRaaghava said:


> Oh is it? Android 11? I thought it’s Android 6/7. That’s how outdated and laggy it is.


Laggy? Mine does not lag, it responds quickly to touch and moves. Even when I'm streaming which is rare.


----------



## emdeevee

@JasonNYC is there any way to get the DSD files in my Max to be subject to EQ settings? 

Also, is there an XAPK Installer that my Max can see and install? I've tried the first choice at APKpure.com but the player is not seeing it in the Open Service folder. The link to the Installer on the AK blog is dead, so not sure if there's a specific one and I can't find it. 

Thanks for any help you can offer.


----------



## dragolds

JasonNYC said:


> Are you referring to adding an icon in the notification bar to toggle Roon Ready on and off?


Hello Jason. I have in my local music collection few albums ripped from 6 channel sacd albums . They are ripped into wav or flac. I do realise I can't listen multichannel recordings via stereo output/headphones, but I love the mastering on these albums. My current dap Shanling m6 pro can play them with no issues.  Can you confirm that Kan Max will be able to play such files? This is  something strictly relying on software I believe, and normally android can handle it, but I wonder will that be the case with sort of ''locked'' android such as Astell&kern UI.


----------



## emdeevee

dragolds said:


> Hello Jason. I have in my local music collection few albums ripped from 6 channel sacd albums . They are ripped into wav or flac. I do realise I can't listen multichannel recordings via stereo output/headphones, but I love the mastering on these albums. My current dap Shanling m6 pro can play them with no issues.  Can you confirm that Kan Max will be able to play such files? This is  something strictly relying on software I believe, and normally android can handle it, but I wonder will that be the case with sort of ''locked'' android such as Astell&kern UI.


I have several SACDs ripped from their multichannel tracks into dsf files which play beautifully on the Kann Max, though the EQ and filters do not work on  DSD.


----------



## dragolds (Jan 4, 2023)

emdeevee said:


> I have several SACDs ripped from their multichannel tracks into dsf files which play beautifully on the Kann Max, though the EQ and filters do not work on  DSD.


Thanks for the reply.  Good news then . I found some 6 channel versions ( Queen - A Night At The Opera, Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here and Toto - 4) are with higher DR compared with their stereo versions and  better sounding for me.


----------



## morndewey

Want to send a grateful shout-out to A&K So Cal/North American Customer Support team for dealing with my confirmed, KMax warranty issue in exemplary fashion. Very satisfied and thank you!


----------

