# single ended to balanced adapter?



## SemiAudiophile

is there such a thing for headphones? i google'd and found little information but nothing concrete. how is the performance versus having the cable re-terminated to balanced?


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## Kees

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there such a thing for headphones? i google'd and found little information but nothing concrete. how is the performance versus having the cable re-terminated to balanced?_

 

This has been asked (and answered) before. 
 There are no SE to balanced adapters because you cannot turn SE to balanced with an adapter. This is because in SE the ground wires are shared while in balanced mode they must be separate and are used for the inverted signal.
 Some phones have four wires going into the (SE) plug, those can be reterminated by removing the plug and separating the ground wires.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kees* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This has been asked (and answered) before. 
 There are no SE to balanced adapters because you cannot turn SE to balanced with an adapter._

 

Sure you can.

 It's called a transformer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 k


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## Punnisher

You can have a SE connector with balanced inputs attached. It will let you listen to your balanced phones on a SE amplifier. Though it won't be truly balanced by any means.


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## revolink24

Making a single ended headphone balanced with an adapter would just be turning the 1/4" plug into XLRs, not making them balanced.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *revolink24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Making a single ended headphone balanced with an adapter would just be turning the 1/4" plug into XLRs, not making them balanced._

 

Typical dynamic headphones are already inherently "balanced."

 The only distinction is whether or not they're driven from a balanced or unbalanced source.

 And an unbalanced source can be made into a balanced source using transformers.

 k


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## cerbie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *revolink24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Making a single ended headphone balanced with an adapter would just be turning the 1/4" plug into XLRs, not making them balanced._

 

...and I'm sure that a transformerless SS balanced amplifier will just love having L- and R- shorted, right?

 The best option for both would be to terminate the cable in a good 4-pin connector (4-pin mini-xlr, maybe?), and have adapters made. You can use a headphone that exposes L- and R- as an SE headphone just fine, with an adapter that shorts them again.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* 
_Typical dynamic headphones are already inherently "balanced."_

 

No, they are not. Typical dynamic headphones share a common signal ground. Some happen to have a Y design in the cable, making things easier, but that still necessitates after-market modification of some kind, even if it's just a custom cable. For differential operation, each signal needs its own + and - (0' and 180') with matching impedance.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cerbie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, they are not. Typical dynamic headphones share a common signal ground._

 

No, they don't.

 They share a common node, but that node isn't inherently signal ground.

 Certainly it will be if plugged into an unbalanced source. But if plugged into transformer coupled balanced outputs, it won't be.






 There is no difference between A and B with regard to signal balance, either at the transformer end or the driver end.

 Neither channel sees the other, there is no signal current that flows between channels, and the common node does nothing to unbalance either the transformer or the driver.

 k


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## cerbie

I see. If copper were cheaper, this stuff would be a lot easier, I guess.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cerbie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see. If copper were cheaper, this stuff would be a lot easier, I guess._

 

Actually it's not the copper that costs so much as the nickel transformer laminations. And by a very wide margin. As my transformer manufacturer friend says, the copper's like a free gift for having bought the laminations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But even then, a good pair of output transformers can be had for under $100.

 k


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## SemiAudiophile

what about the other way around? balanced to single-ended adapter? IIRC, another member on this forum had one.


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## ClaudeRaines

HeadRoom XLR-to-1/4 @ HeadRoom


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SemiAudiophile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what about the other way around? balanced to single-ended adapter? IIRC, another member on this forum had one._

 

The beautiful thing about transformers is you can have your cake and eat it too. You can have balanced output and keep your TRS plug. No having to dangle a couple of big goat testicles off your headphone cable. With the adapter, you've now got four big goat testicles dangling off your headphone cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 k


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## cerbie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually it's not the copper that costs so much as the nickel transformer laminations. And by a very wide margin. As my transformer manufacturer friend says, the copper's like a free gift for having bought the laminations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But even then, a good pair of output transformers can be had for under $100.

 k_

 

Huh. Still, $100 is quite the cost, when new plugs are only a few bucks, each. OTOH, the _retail_ prices of recabling...ouch.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cerbie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh. Still, $100 is quite the cost..._

 

No, it's not exactly cheap. But then that's for a pair of premium quality transformers on substantial 80% nickel cores. You can also get a pair on similarly sized M6 (grain oriented silicon steel) cores from Edcor for about $25. And if you REALLY want to go cheap, you can get a pair on even smaller M6 cores for about $15.

  Quote:


 ...when new plugs are only a few bucks, each. OTOH, the _retail_ prices of recabling...ouch. 
 

Yes, there is that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, just pointing out that there are other options.

 k


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## haloxt

If balanced ever goes mainstream, I'd like to see standardized an audio connector that will be able to plug into balanced as well as unbalanced sources without an adapter. For example, maybe a 4 pole connector that fits into 3.5mm jacks, tip is left+, middle is right+, bottom contains both left- and right- which a balanced output will keep separate from each other but an unbalanced output will merge and use as ground.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If balanced ever goes mainstream, I'd like to see standardized an audio connector that will be able to plug into balanced as well as unbalanced sources without an adapter. For example, maybe a 4 pole connector that fits into 3.5mm jacks, tip is left+, middle is right+, bottom contains both left- and right- which a balanced output will keep separate from each other but an unbalanced output will merge and use as ground._

 

That'd work. And 4 pole 3.5mm plugs are already readily available. Though I'm not aware of any 4 pole 1/4" plugs. 

 k


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## BIG POPPA

Blue Jeans cable will make you one. I have one and like it.


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## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *haloxt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If balanced ever goes mainstream, I'd like to see standardized an audio connector that will be able to plug into balanced as well as unbalanced sources without an adapter. For example, maybe a 4 pole connector that fits into 3.5mm jacks, tip is left+, middle is right+, bottom contains both left- and right- which a balanced output will keep separate from each other but an unbalanced output will merge and use as ground._

 

The Meier amps do use some combo XLR/TRS jacks.


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