# Cable braiding (Litz) : Just eye candy or significant audio advantage over twisted cable?



## kaushama

Almost every cable builder seems to be preferring the Litz braids for cable making. Does it give any audio and electrical advantage?

Just simple twisted configurations are inferior except the appearance?


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## Speedskater

While braiding can have mechanical advantages, twisting has electrical advantages:
 a] Lower loop inductance.
 b] Better RFI rejection.
  
 Disadvantage:
 a] Higher capacitance.
  
 **************************
 But all these differences are very small and in the real world probably don't matter at all.


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## kaushama

speedskater said:


> While braiding can have mechanical advantages, twisting has electrical advantages:
> a] Lower loop inductance.
> b] Better RFI rejection.
> 
> ...




What's the drawback of high capacitance?


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## Speedskater

Some legacy, boutique or poorly designed output stages are unhappy with a high capacitance loud. They may ring or even oscillate. But even then it's only a problem with longer cables.


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## 5genez (Sep 9, 2017)

The problem litz solves is something I can only explain in layman terms.....

Litz has each thin strand coated with a polymer that causes each strand to be insulated from all the others in the cable.
With the usual standard stranded cable (no matter how good the copper or silver) each thin strand is bare and not individually insulating each strand from the other strands.
With regular cable when the signal is being sent through the wires without insulation the current/voltage will skip and jump from one strand to the other.  That is why solid core
tends to sound smoother, but if too thick can suffer from other types of signal degradation.

Litz allows for the signal to pass from one end to the other of the cable while avoiding most of the distortions that are unavoidable with regular stranded cable.

When trying litz in my system for the first time, in comparison to the regular cables, .. it sounded almost dull.  For all that high end tizz was now missing.  What was missing was the normally heard high frequency tizz that is caused by the interaction taking place within the non insulated strands. Litz may requires that you reset your system because many audiophiles compensate for that tizz and try to find ways to dull it down. Litz gives a very tight accurate sound when everything is optimal....  I love it. Its warm when the music is warm... and very quick when its there to be heard.


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## Speedskater

While there are some industrial applications where Litz wire has advantages, hi-fi headphone and speaker cables are not on that list.
It's just another audiophile myth that current jumps from strand to strand.


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## 5genez (Sep 10, 2017)

Speedskater said:


> While there are some industrial applications where Litz wire has advantages, hi-fi headphone and speaker cables are not on that list.
> It's just another audiophile myth that current jumps from strand to strand.




Its not a myth.  Come on.   Stop, it.  Maybe your headphones make no difference.  But on audio equipment in general it removes the high frequency tizz and gives more precise imaging.My speakers sound amazingly accurate with litz.   And,  only like hi-fi without. But, if I had not so good speakers I am not sure what I would be hearing.   We are assuming here that people are seeking the best sound they can get.

Its amazing... Certain people always pop up in all kinds of forums wanting to prevent others from discovering something that will add to their happiness.   What's with these guys?


​


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## Speedskater

No, I pop up trying to prevent people from wasting time and money on things that are just misunderstandings or myths.


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## 5genez (Sep 11, 2017)

Speedskater said:


> No, I pop up trying to prevent people from wasting time and money on things that are just misunderstandings or myths.



What is a myth about litz configured cable?

I put my money where my mouth is.  I have wasted money on somethings.  Litz is not one of them.


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## Speedskater (Sep 11, 2017)

It's a misunderstanding. (that then became a myth)
Differences in cable total resistance, inductance & capacitance and overall length will overwhelm any small theoretical skin effect /litz wire differences. 
If two cables sound different it's not because of litz wire.


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## 5genez

Speedskater said:


> It's a misunderstanding. (that then became a myth)
> Differences in cable total resistance, inductance & capacitance and overall length will overwhelm any small theoretical skin effect /litz wire differences.
> If two cables sound different it's not because of litz wire.


 You are only concentrating on one superior aspect of Litz.  That one aspect will not make a difference.  Litz is also doing something else that is audible and SUPERIOR sounding (more realistic) on good systems.


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## Speedskater

5genez said:


> You are only concentrating on one superior aspect of Litz.  That one aspect will not make a difference.  Litz is also doing something else that is audible and SUPERIOR sounding (more realistic) on good systems.


True, I'm only concentrating on the engineering aspects. What is this something else?


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## 5genez (Sep 12, 2017)

Speedskater said:


> True, I'm only concentrating on the engineering aspects. What is this something else?



Yes.. What you HEAR on an accurate phase coherent system...

If you listen on a system with all sorts of time and phase problems you probably will think its a myth. Litz is the wire for high end audiophile systems.  I know of no other cable that can transfer the signal intact like litz does.  Leading edges are dynamic. Bass is solid and tight when its on the recording and your amplification is up to snuff. If you have speakers that are typically having crossovers that make the drivers out of phase with one another you might as well line up in the "Its a myth" line. Yet,  you will hear a difference. I have some solid core wire you can buy from me if you wish. I have some shielded speaker cables made from very high quality copper if you wish.  Most interconnects and speaker cables are designed to counter the hash produced by the non-insulated strands used in making the cable.   Litz avoids that electronic hash.

I use litz as my objective starting point to evaluate my system. I have Q-Audio interconnects, and just purchased some WyWire balanced interconnects which are in transit as I type this. My speaker wires are crappy looking raw litz wire (about 12 AWG).....  Here is what they look like. Obviously I was not liking them because they look fantastic.  They sound fantastic when a system is set up optimally!


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## 5genez (Sep 12, 2017)

Here is a little view of the Q-Audio braided unbalanced litz interconnects (which sound as neutral as you're going to get). Those plain looking white cables hanging down in front of everything are my litz speaker cables made from raw litz cabling that I made myself.  Ugly - looks like junk - by audiophile standards. Sounds fantastic when a system is set up optimally.


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## Speedskater

Your cables look like noise and interference antennas.
All good RCA analog interconnect cables are made with coax cable. End of story.


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## 5genez (Sep 13, 2017)

Speedskater said:


> Your cables look like noise and interference antennas.
> All good RCA analog interconnect cables are made with coax cable. End of story.



Name some coax interconnect brands that you speak of that are designed as interconnects for components?

There are so many other things that effect the sound that even if you found the "perfect" interconnect you may never know it if you are not getting the other things correct to begin with.

You want to argue about what someone has and knows what it does?


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## Speedskater

Some good coax cables with heavy braided shields:
Belden 1505F
Belden 1695A
Canare LV-77S
Blue Jeans Cable LC-1

These are measurably some of the best cables available. (there are others with similar specs)


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## 5genez

Speedskater said:


> Some good coax cables with heavy braided shields:
> Belden 1505F
> Belden 1695A
> Canare LV-77S
> ...



Yes... measurably.  For what they know to measure for.     

You are speaking for SPDIF use, I presume?  

But, not for component interconnects. Right?   

Not for speaker cables.   Right?  

Not even for headphone cables.  Right?


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## 5genez

Never seen this product before.  Posting about it because they did a good job of explaining some of the benefits of using litz....




> Litz construction means that each conductor strand is individually insulated. In most cables this is not the case, and without insulation the signal can randomly jump conductors in an uncontrolled manner. Distortion results in the phase and time domains, and although this may be difficult to measure, it can definitely be detected by the most sensitive of instruments, the human ear.



http://studioprojects.com/litz.html


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## Speedskater

No, those are good RCA analog interconnect cables. The heavy braided shield is needed for long analog cable runs.
For long  SPDIF, choose a good 75 Ohm coax cable.


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## 5genez

Speedskater said:


> No, those are good RCA analog interconnect cables. The heavy braided shield is needed for long analog cable runs.
> For long  SPDIF, choose a good 75 Ohm coax cable.



This thread was not created for finding the best coaxial SPDIF cable.  The title is about the benefits of litz itself...

*Cable braiding (Litz) : Just eye candy or significant audio advantage over twisted cable? *​
Not about coaxial... Its about something like this... http://www.q-audio.com/headphone-adapters/
http://www.q-audio.com/headphone-adapters/
I have Q Audio RCA interconnects and these are the finest sounding interconnects I have had in my system. 

Q Audio headphone cable...


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## Speedskater

5genez said:


> This thread was not created for finding the best coaxial SPDIF cable. The title is about the benefits of litz itself...


You are the person that brought up SPDIF cable.


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## 5genez

Speedskater said:


> You are the person that brought up SPDIF cable.




This is a short thread.  Not a lot of stuff to wade through.  Anyone can see that I have not brought it up.  Maybe you are posting in two threads and got this one confused with another?  I did not bring it up.


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## Speedskater

In post #18, you wrote:


5genez said:


> You are speaking for SPDIF use, I presume?


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## 5genez

Speedskater said:


> In post #18, you wrote:


Must have misunderstood when you used the term "coaxial" cables? 
You said...


Speedskater said:


> Some *good coax cables* with heavy braided shields:
> Belden 1505F
> Belden 1695A
> Canare LV-77S
> ...




Well?  Here is what I found with the Belden 1505F...  https://www.markertek.com/product/1...rg59-bnc-male-to-bnc-male-cable-10-foot-black


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## GarageBoy

Belden is one of the largest cable manufacturers in the world. It's used more in the pro audio world where everything is custom terminated. 

https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/1505F_techdata.pdf


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## Speedskater

Some excellent US providers of terminated Belden cables are: 
Blue Jeans Cable
Markertek
Redco


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## GarageBoy

Good to know. Saves me from buying 100' of cable at a time


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## 5genez

I just realized what may be causing some confusion here.   

Litz wire does not simply mean "braided." Though, it is braided.  By the looks of the title of this thread it appears to be the assumption it means to be braided in a special weave.

Litz wire is a wire where its not only braided..   But, having each individual fine strand in the cable being insulated from one another.  Regular braided wire, only "braids." Its not Litz. It does not insulate as to prevent the strand hopping and blurring that takes place with non insulated strands of wire... be it silver, or copper.  Makes no difference.  

Litz is a special process to guarantee a very pure signal transfer.  The only other option would be using solid core, no strands.  That way you avoid the strand hopping and blurring.  That strand hopping and blurring often times shows up as that high frequency tizz we have become accustomed to and try to find ways to tame.


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## macro (Dec 1, 2017)

5genez said:


> When trying litz in my system for the first time, in comparison to the regular cables, .. it sounded almost dull.  For all that high end tizz was now missing.  What was missing was the normally heard high frequency tizz that is caused by the interaction taking place within the non insulated strands. Litz may requires that you reset your system because many audiophiles compensate for that tizz and try to find ways to dull it down. Litz gives a very tight accurate sound when everything is optimal....  I love it. Its warm when the music is warm... and very quick when its there to be heard.



LItz wire is designed to reduce AC resistance at higher frequencies, so if it has any audible effect, one would expect it to sound airier and brighter contrary to the duller sound you're describing.


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## 5genez (Dec 1, 2017)

macro said:


> LItz wire is designed to reduce AC resistance at higher frequencies, so if it has any audible effect, one would expect it to sound airier and brighter contrary to the duller sound you're describing.



What it was designed for was good.   The "side benefits" for audio use was not what they had in mind.It eliminates a certain audible harshness that regular cables have... Many attribute that harshness to being electronics sound.  I found Litz makes my solid state sound more tube like. 

It can sound nicely airier. It just won't sound harsh (tizziness).  Some of the harshness we hear typically comes from the naked strand effect of regular cabling that Litz overcame. That is why for certain applications audiophiles have looked to solid core cable as a preferred cable. (solid core does not have electrical interaction with other strands) .. Litz gives the best of both worlds.  When using Litz that harshness is gone.  The first impression could be that it sounds duller.  But, it actually sound more like real music, less electronic, without the harshness.  That's been mine and others experience. 

This is not an endorsement... But Cardas HP cables are litz.  Not simply braided. Smoothness is one trait.  Q-Audio also offers Litz HP cables. http://www.q-audio.com/shopz/q-french-silk-tm-cable


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## DJ The Rocket

5genez said:


> The problem litz solves is something I can only explain in layman terms.....
> 
> Litz has each thin strand coated with a polymer that causes each strand to be insulated from all the others in the cable.
> With the usual standard stranded cable (no matter how good the copper or silver) each thin strand is bare and not individually insulating each strand from the other strands.
> ...



I don't enjoy correcting people, it doesn't make me popular. But it bothers me on a deep level seeing misinformation like this spread.

Here you go:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect


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## 5genez (Feb 22, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> I don't enjoy correcting people, it doesn't make me popular. But it bothers me on a deep level seeing misinformation like this spread.
> 
> Here you go:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect


 
Don't worry... That's not correcting my point.   I understand those attributes concerning litz wire.  Originally it was not designed for audio applications.   Its because of how it was designed to achieve that stated benefit it turned out to also have an additional benefit when applied to audio.  It may just be the reason why all Audio Research tube equipment was wired with litz.   Believe  me. It was not wired that way to play in the megahertz range. It was used because of the unique audible benefits we will hear within the normal audio range,..... Its because of its weave and having each strand dialectically isolated from all the other strands in the cable.   You will never find that strand isolation in standard stranded wire, no matter what metal is used.


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## 5genez

*1. Cables That Use Stranded Wire:*

*Under the insulation of a cable, you will most likely find tiny bare wire strands all twisted together. This is called stranded wire. In stranded wire designs, the strands touch each other thousands of times at various points along the length of the wire, causing the signal to jump from strand to strand instead of flowing through a solid continum.

The results are phase distortions at each point where the strands come into contact, causing distortion of the signal; blurred imaging, lost soundstage cues, bloated and non-defined bass, etc. Details like the 3rd and 4th echo off the hall, subtle harmonics and depth are lost.* http://morrowaudio.com/about-us/ssi-technology


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## Speedskater

5genez said:


> The results are phase distortions at each point where the strands come into contact, causing distortion of the signal; blurred imaging, lost soundstage cues, bloated and non-defined bass, etc. Details like the 3rd and 4th echo off the hall, subtle harmonics and depth are lost.


Of course this is all incorrect and total imagination.  There are no advantages for using Litz or Solid core conductors in hi-fi situations.


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## 5genez

Speedskater said:


> Of course this is all incorrect and total imagination.  There are no advantages for using Litz or Solid core conductors in hi-fi situations.





*Stranded, Litz or Solid Core?*
Most cables consist of thin strands of wire bunched together to form 2 conductive cores. However there are alternatives in the form of “Litz” and “solid core”. If you don't know what Litz wire is, then it's best described as a bunch of thin wire strands within a conductor, in which every strand is individually insulated from it's neighbour. Favoured in many high end cables, this configuration has the advantage of completely eliminating signal degradation caused by electricity jumping from strand to strand as it passes along the cable. Electricity “jumps” in normal stranded cable because it travels the quickest path. The bunched strands making up the cable do not run straight, but have a light twist to hold them together for manufacturing reasons. This twist causes “jumping” but any bend in the cable will have a similar effect. As one might expect, elimination of the jumping effect manifests itself in a very pure sound, devoid of grain and background haze.

A well designed Litz wire always seems to perform well as an interconnect. However for speaker cables it is not as consistent. Maybe because it presents a higher impedance for low frequencies. On account of this, it's best avoided as a speaker cable on valve and low power amplifiers. For anything over 40 Watts solid state, Litz cable can be a huge advantage.

Solid Core cable is usually a single, relatively thick conductor instead of a bunch of thin strands. Similar to Litz, there is no signal degradation caused by electricity jumping across boundaries and as you would expect, the sound is pure and transparent.

The tonal balance of a solid core wire is affected by the thickness of it's core. Thin solid core wires (less than 0.5 sq mm cross section) are highly transparent but bass light, thick solid cores on the other hand are bass heavy (2.5 sq mm cross section 30 amp mains wire) – mains wire with conductor cross-section of 1sq mm is about right for many systems and still popular in some quarters.

A large diameter solid core wire such as Origin Live Soli-Core is highly favoured by valve amp users. No one really seems to know exactly why thick twisted solid core wire works so well on valves but it outperforms exotic alternatives including Litz wires.

https://www.originlive.com/choosing-hi-fi-cables.html


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## Speedskater

Once again that's all incorrect!

Audio signals don't care if the conductor is stranded, solid or Litz.


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## 5genez

Speedskater said:


> Once again that's all incorrect!
> 
> Audio signals don't care if the conductor is stranded, solid or Litz.


 
I have seen you pop up in several forums. Your operation is always the same.. It is to simply make contrary, unsubstantiated comments in order to try to chuck a wrench in the gears by saying something contrary.  I seen you post enough times to see this consistency, not only here.  Its always the same modus operandi you have. 

And, yes... audio signals have no feelings.   They do not care about what ever you want to do with them.  

Its our ears that care.  That is... if we have ears to hear. Some will hear. Some won't. And some will refuse to even listen. 

And, some others? ...   These few are called polarity responders.  https://www.quora.com/What’s-the-most-outstanding-life-hack/answer/Phil-Callaghan

You're a condition.   Not a solution.


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## Speedskater

5genez said:


> I have seen you pop up in several forums. Your operation is always the same.. It is to simply make contrary, unsubstantiated comments in order to try to chuck a wrench in the gears by saying something contrary.  I seen you post enough times to see this consistency, not only here.  Its always the same modus operandi you have.
> You're a condition.   Not a solution.


I only make corrections to audiophile engineering misunderstandings and myths!
What's the problem with understanding engineering facts of life?


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## 5genez (Feb 22, 2018)

Speedskater said:


> I only make corrections to audiophile engineering misunderstandings and myths!
> What's the problem with understanding engineering facts of life?


 
They are not corrections, sir....  They are only the conclusions of some engineers who can not hear what it is, and only know how to measure for things.. not knowing what else is needed to be measured for.


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## KarmaPhala (Aug 11, 2019)

5genez said:


> Its not a myth.  Come on.   Stop, it.  Maybe your headphones make no difference.  But on audio equipment in general it removes the high frequency tizz and gives more precise
> imaging.My speakers sound amazingly accurate with litz.   And,  only like hi-fi without. But, if I had not so good speakers I am not sure what I would be hearing.   We are assuming here that people are seeking the best sound they can get.
> 
> Its amazing... Certain people always pop up in all kinds of forums wanting to prevent others from discovering something that will add to their happiness.   What's with these guys?
> ...



I see that you use litz for loudspeaker, how bout portable audio ( earbud, iem, headphone, portable battery powered DAP ), are portable audio benefit litz cable ????


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## 5genez

KarmaPhala said:


> I see that you use litz for loudspeaker, how bout portable audio ( earbud, iem, headphone, portable battery powered DAP ), are portable audio benefit litz cable ????


  I still use litz cable for my speakers.  I recently switched over to WyWires Blue speaker cables so I can get a finished look. 

Makes no difference if its portable.   If it requires cables to connect?  You can benefit.  Yet, it all depends on how revealing your portable set up is.  It may not be revealing enough to warrant the use of litz.  Litz benefits the most for very revealing systems.  It takes off the rough edges that revealing systems will allow to pass through.


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## 5genez

Anyone wanting to learn of the history of Litz cabling being used in hi-end audio a good article is to be found here:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-short-history-of-high-end-cables/


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## nikitasius

Well, i made mine, ~1.5m:


Spoiler: final

























I used Litz 0.71mm^2, 90x0.1mm each. golden plated 3.5mm stereo jack (G+R+L). golden plated mini-XLR.

This cable have configuration: G+R & G+L (2 grounds separately).

G+L twisted, G+R twisted with different step. Then G+L litz and G+R pairs are twisted between each other with bigger step.
Next they are in nylon sleeve (white), next in a copper shield, next i used heatshrink as an isolation for copper shield (silver on photos) and another one coloured nylon sleeve as a finalization.

Finally, this cord (regarding my measures) have 0.5 Ohm per channel (or less), while original for AKG550MK3 has 1Ohm. This cord pretty hard, so i use it when i'm working and not moving 

About sound: i looped audio fragments on my cowon j3 (flac) and tested them:
- litz sounds a bit louder
- i have move low freq, music is juicy

Nextone will be mobile version for walking 

P.S. i got my components in an audio shop, not AE, and i use sn96.5ag3.5 to solder it with simple rosin. I ordered more than i wanted, but price for such cord:
- 32.4€ for ALL (including mini-xlr and EXCEPT 3.5 jack)
- 12.9€ for hell expensive 3.5 jack


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## DaveLav (Dec 28, 2019)

5genez said:


> Its not a myth.



Actually, for audio, it is a myth and it is only seen in the _consumer _audio market.  That is because the pros in pro audio already know better.  Any engineer worth a salt would instantly spot this as a bogus marketing ploy.  While Litz wires do have application in RF (and usually in the MHz and even GHz range), it has zero perceived benefit (except maybe placebo) in the audio range.  That is because you'd have to be up near 20kHz to even begin to notice a difference, and even then it would only measurable as opposed to human perception.


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## 5genez (Dec 28, 2019)

DaveLav said:


> Actually, for audio, it is a myth and it is only seen in the _consumer _audio market.  That is because the pros in pro audio already know better.  Any engineer worth a salt would instantly spot this as a bogus marketing ploy.  While Litz wires do have application in RF (and usually in the MHz and even GHz range), it has zero perceived benefit (except maybe placebo) in the audio range.  That is because you'd have to be up near 20kHz to even begin to notice a difference, and even then it would only measurable as opposed to human perception.


 
Audiophiles are listening for one thing.  Engineers (according to what you are saying) see cables only as a tool. A tool to achieve a needed outcome enabling them to manipulate what is heard with their board and various effect boxes. They are not listening for the finer nuances as an audiophile will.

 Its like buying a car with its OEM tires. The engineers used those tires to adjust and design the car in a generalized way (unless its a high end automobile).  A real car enthusiast will buy a car and end up changing the tires to something that will give him a road feel he will desire...  Now tires, even if the OEM tires measured objectively to be the same.

Not everyone drives with the same sense for the road.  Likewise,  cables and wires.

*One more time: *


The _status quo_ was shattered by the publication of several articles. In Japan it was Akihiko Kaneda at Akita University (1974) who argued that sound quality of a speaker/amplifier interface could be impacted by wire or cable. He suggested that this could be caused by the skin effect whereby current is progressively pushed to the skin layer of a conductor at increasing frequency, an effect made worse by the common practice at that time of tin-plating copper wire. Soon thereafter, in 1975, the late great Japanese audio critic, Saburo Egawa (1932–2015), practically started his audio career with the publication of listening test results showing sonic differences between different speaker cables. At Japan’s Mogami Cable, Koichi Hirabayashi was determined to prove Egawa wrong. But after extensive listening tests he became convinced that despite its apparent minimal theoretical effect over the audible bandwidth, skin effect does play a rather large role in perceived sonic differences. The end results of his research were the Mogami 2803 interconnect and 2804 speaker cable.​
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-short-history-of-high-end-cables/​


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## decoRyder

5genez said:


> What it was designed for was good.   The "side benefits" for audio use was not what they had in mind.It eliminates a certain audible harshness that regular cables have... Many attribute that harshness to being electronics sound.  I found Litz makes my solid state sound more tube like.
> 
> It can sound nicely airier. It just won't sound harsh (tizziness).  Some of the harshness we hear typically comes from the naked strand effect of regular cabling that Litz overcame. That is why for certain applications audiophiles have looked to solid core cable as a preferred cable. (solid core does not have electrical interaction with other strands) .. Litz gives the best of both worlds.  When using Litz that harshness is gone.  The first impression could be that it sounds duller.  But, it actually sound more like real music, less electronic, without the harshness.  That's been mine and others experience.
> 
> This is not an endorsement... But Cardas HP cables are litz.  Not simply braided. Smoothness is one trait.  Q-Audio also offers Litz HP cables. http://www.q-audio.com/shopz/q-french-silk-tm-cable


Just wanted to let you know that I've created an account on this form explicitly to let you know that your description of Litz cables is 100% accurate, and to express my sincere gratitude for the information and background you provided here. 
I only just recently got my hands on a pair of high-quality Litz cables, and I have to admit that I thought esoteric, or even alternative cable designs were complete humbug. After replacing my old cables to test the Litz cables, I was really surprised to discover that my high-end, very revealing system sounded completely different: Warmer, more focussed, and that last remaining bit of upper midrange/trebble  sibilance that I was never able to get rid off - GONE. I came to this discovery completely unbiased, Litz cables simply never appeared on my radar before, and I stumbled across this thread only after trying to find out more about these new cables of mine. You are 100% correct about what you stated on the subject, and thanks for doing so.


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## The Indian Audiophile

5genez said:


> Its not a myth.  Come on.   Stop, it.  Maybe your headphones make no difference.  But on audio equipment in general it removes the high frequency tizz and gives more precise imaging.My speakers sound amazingly accurate with litz.   And,  only like hi-fi without. But, if I had not so good speakers I am not sure what I would be hearing.   We are assuming here that people are seeking the best sound they can get.
> 
> Its amazing... Certain people always pop up in all kinds of forums wanting to prevent others from discovering something that will add to their happiness.   What's with these guys?
> 
> ​I think, they just dont want to spend money on your placebo.


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