# best speaker cable i heard,69 cents a foot



## music_man

on a hunch,

 i went to hd and got 12/2 romex. pulled out the ground,leaving the dielectric. threw on wbt spades. most speaker cables that cost thousands didn't make much difference to me than rs 12awg megacable. this stuff really made a difference i can hear. a very pleasent difference to me. i know there are companies that sell this stuff as speaker wires for a lot more money too.

 it is very stiff and hard to route. other than that you really have nothing to loose if you want to try it.

 music_man


----------



## Uncle Erik

I've also heard good things about Home Depot heavy-duty commercial extension cords reterminated as speaker cables.


----------



## music_man

very intresting. i just read an old story regarding top audiophiles,romex,and something you can't mention in this forum lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i'll let you guess the end of the story,ha!

 i'm not even wanting for the $5 extension cord. this here romex is the snizzle! alright, were is everyone who is going to disagree and call me a dodo?

 music_man


----------



## FraGGleR

I certainly wouldn't doubt you, as ever since I started DIY'ing, I have been trying to acquire different scraps of cables and metal to make cables out of to see what differences there were. 6 different cables later, I am not sure I can pick a winner as they all sound so close. I *think* I found one that is the best at clarity and punch, but it could be all my head. 

 At any rate, I will be headed to Home Depot so see if I can get some scrap to test out. A buddy of mine is building a home theater in his basement later this year and I am the official sound geek consult.


----------



## glitch39

I read somewhere how Romex has a fraction of capacitance vs those megabuck Kimbers and MIT's


----------



## Drag0n

YOURE A FREEKING DODO!!!!! 

 Haha, im kidding!!!
 I might just try it. You took out the shielding and left the dielectric?
 So what is it then, just the center conductor and a covering then?
 Is it a coax type wire?


----------



## music_man

it is two wires covered with dielectric with a paper dielectric spacing them. when you remove the centire wire in the paper it leaves behind the paper seperating the white and black cased wires. they are solid. stuff is hard to work with so i wouldn't go lower than 12awg. twist it about 3 times a foot if you can even manage.

 i found out it sounds even better with no terminations! you need some pretty hefty binding posts though. most high end equipment has them. a receiver won't take this though.

 let's just say i have dug up(not on the internet) some pretty intresting stories about romex "speaker" wire! i don't want to upset a lot of people so i won't recite them here.

 now i will tell you the truth about something. i comissioned my friend to put the romex on one speaker output of a high end amp and $20,000 speaker cables(yikes) on the other. i asked him to switch between them every one minute for 10 minutes. obviously without telling me which output contained which cable. i am sorry if this constitutes dbt, i don't know. the speaker side was wired to a bi-wire banana so it could take two speaker wires. i assuredly and quickly picked the romex 10 times! now some might say the odin was still in the mix since it was connected even though not energized. if you must, go ahead kid yourself. my friend didn't try. he cried instead.

 someone please rush to hd and tell me i am not insane! i cannot hear the difference between "any" speaker cables. the romex is so easy to pick out as my preference.
 this has apparently been a very dark secret for over 40 years. that is why you really don't find much about it on google.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

well, i guess romex is not going to impress that many audiophiles. anyhow this is "head-fi" not speaker-fi. i expected people to discuss it more. oh well. to me i can spend a lot but ultimately what matters regardless of price is the sound to me. this just happens to be cheap and be the only cable that i can actually tell a difference. i know audiophiles like to poopoo it but i am not that anal. i went and got carbon fiber techflex and now i can tell people they are expensive cables if that matters. they will know none the better. this stuff sounds terrific to me. maybe it does not sound anygood to some other people but that is not what i have read. wehn people "picked" it they were pretty upset with themselves lol.

 music_man


----------



## tim3320070

Any pictures you can post?


----------



## music_man

here. i don't take pics of my own stuff cause i am weird but there is nothing to really look at. it has bare ends now. it sounded better with one less mechanical connection(the spades). the spades do look cool though. just search google for "wbt spade lugs" if you want to see them.

 music_man


----------



## Bones13

Is the gauge romex you used bigger than "anti-cables" which are also stiff? They are described as not as stiff as coat hanger wire.

 I did my DIY speaker cable from star quad cable, heat shrink and spades at one end and bananas for the amp end. Was doing some bi-wiring with my MA RS6 speakers, but the new ones only have single binding posts, so I re-tasked them into straight single connection cables.

 Have not had the need for the tech-flex or similar. My cat does not care if the cables are plain grey or sparkly silver or gold. Luckily he pretty much ignores them now.


----------



## music_man

it is the same gauge(12). i didn't want to say this but it is the same exact thing. just a different color. the anti's are pretty highly regarded. 

 bi wiring is silly, honestly. people do so many silly things with audio. if your speakers have two sets of terminals, than by all means, biwire. also, "biamping" is superior(meaning 2 seperate amps). two wires on one set of terminals from one amp honestly does nothing except increase the effective gauge. if anyone is so concerned use 8 gauge instead of 2x12 gauge(very stiff). that would be superior to 2 12's if you and your binding posts can handle it. that is a great way to snap a binding post from the weight of the cable.

 i did find that bare wire sounds much better than spades or bananas(so have many other folks). tara's $25,000 speaker cables have bare ends as standard, spades or bananas are optional and not recommended by them.

 this is much better than star quad i truely feel. companies use multiple small guage wires for a lot of reasons but better sound is not one of them. for instance, that $25,000 tara of the quality wires in it if it were solid would probably be about $200,000(guessing)! it would probably also weigh 60lbs! it is one heck of a cable as it stands anyhow. we are talking about 69 cents a foot here for the romex though. that tara is effectively 00 gauge. can you image if it were solid,lol.

 my cats really do care(eat them) carbon fiber is tough. also loose, and i stress loose techflex can possibly improve the sound of a cable, again tara's idea.

 music_man


----------



## mminutel

I needed some speaker wire for my new speakers when they come in, and I needed something inexpensive to tell a distant relative to get me for christmas, so I decided to get some of this to try out. I hope it sounds good. I don't have much to compare it to though.

 As for bi-wiring, I might be misunderstanding your post. If you mean that some people hook up two wires to the same set of posts on their amp and speakers, then there would be no difference other than wire gauge. However, if your speakers are set up with two different sets of binding posts, then it is scientific since, instead of the high and low frequency being on the same cable, the high frequencies are on one cable and the lows on another. I haven't tried it yet, but I am going to when my speakers come in.


----------



## music_man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mminutel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I needed some speaker wire for my new speakers when they come in, and I needed something inexpensive to tell a distant relative to get me for christmas, so I decided to get some of this to try out. I hope it sounds good. I don't have much to compare it to though.

 As for bi-wiring, I might be misunderstanding your post. If you mean that some people hook up two wires to the same set of posts on their amp and speakers, then there would be no difference other than wire gauge. However, if your speakers are set up with two different sets of binding posts, then it is scientific since, instead of the high and low frequency being on the same cable, the high frequencies are on one cable and the lows on another. I haven't tried it yet, but I am going to when my speakers come in._

 

you are correct. two sets of posts is superior if the speakers are designed that way. some very high end speakers still have only one set though. those manufacturers feel that single wire is better for whatever reason they have. probably their crossover design.

 i did mean two wires on one amps posts and single posts on a speaker. that is really a waste and can actually harm the sound due to skin effect.

 that must be a really distant relative. getting the stuff is going to be more trouble for them than the few dollars it costs though. home depot,menards,lowes,hardware store etc.

 i am all about the sound. i don't care that it is so cheap. some people think multiple smaller gauge wires are better. i personally feel that is not true. well at least in the case of romex. if you search the net for hours you can dig up very positive remarks regarding this. including a thumbs up from mcintosh. which they later withdrew because dealers got mad since they also sell cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i think krell was once even with it but i am not sure about that.
 when i said that the best cables are designed with multiple gauge "networks" when in fact a solid wire would be superior i was getting information from a site i saw regarding "the truth about speaker cables" i think.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i saw some people complained romex is annealed. ofc is really just another audiophile myth. i have ripped open 50 year old beldens that were not oxidized. they are in dielectric. plus annealed has almost no oxygen anyhow but not zero. the only real advance in copper "might" be ultra long grain. i don't even want to mess with silver anymore.

 so i went from six figures of cables to,belden,volex and romex! thats my whole system. i still have the big buck cables. if i thought they were better i'd be using them. i am using what the pro's use now. we record all your cd's with this stuff so it has to be good to listen to it for playback. i now think all these hifi cables are foofoo. i really wanted to be a beliver but it just didn't happen. you can see my posts here. i so much as tried to force myself to believe.

 i have my romex from a yba passion integre 300 to sonus faber guarneri mementos. if i thought my expensive cables were better i'd still be using them.

 music_man


----------



## mminutel

I assume Romex is just a type of wire itself? What brand specifically did you go for? I just want to make sure it's the same stuff before I open it. Mine is from Southwire and is 12-2 SIM pull. I assum all of that stuff doesn't make a bit of a difference as long as the cable itself is Romex?

 Also, from what I have read, OFC isn't "better" because of it being oxygen free. From what I have come to understand, the process of making it OFC actually removes the impurities that are inherent in the cable and make for a more uniform signal path?


----------



## music_man

romex is all the same stuff. i don't think i got some magic romex here. romex is a "type" of jacketed in wall rated wire. there are many brands. i am almost positive that it is not some special brand that does the audio magic but i could be wrong. for the record mine is carol brand from hd. open it? it comes by the foot on a 1000' roll. don't tell me you got a thousand feet lol.

 ofc copper is not very much purer than todays annealed. there are many proprietary coppers that audio companies use that are much higher percentage copper. called 9's for how many 9's are after the decimal point. just because something is ofc does not mean it is necessarily very pure. also i don't think all those 9's always make a difference. i assure you this excelant romex does not have very many 9's after the decimal. it does however not have much oxygen in it. nothing does anymore. so it is not going to corode. go ahead and do not terminate it if it fits on your binding posts. it is also known that unterminated wire usually will sound better. you are getting rid of a useless mechanical connection.

 then of course there are complex strand geometries some cable companies have.
 i have tried the most expensive cables. i found personally that good old professional grade cabling sounds the best to me. romex was never meant for audio however. it is just a fluke. i am certainly not the first person to say romex sounds great. it is a apparently a highly guarded secret though. i don't think cable companies really want anyone to know about this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 music_man


----------



## music_man

i hope santa brought evryone some romex hohoho!

 i have read many places that a thick wire cause's skin effect. well this does but in a good way really. the bass is compressed in a a way that tightens it up and the highs are rollled off just enough to cure sibilance. it really sounds very hi-fi. i think i am hearing the true nature of my speakers now and not the cables. 

 mminutel, did you try them? what do you think? i hope you have something to compare them to. i am getting pretty cool cable at the car audio area in walmart i will compare. it is $9 for 25 feet. i am so done with uber expensive cables. sorry.

 music_man


----------



## mminutel

I haven't yet tried them. I am still waiting on my speakers, actually. My whole family was making fun of me today for wanting 12-2 for speaker wire. They keep talking about that ~18 gauge stranded stuff that it on cheap stereo receivers.


----------



## music_man

they were joking 12-2 is big. or they were joking it's not good? i don't get what you meant. i am kind of surprised your "whole" family knows about wire gauges! thats a cool family!

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i wanted to point something out. there is no skin effect in a 12awg cable in an audio application. it does not kick in at 120v untill 4150hz! it can be entirely possible that the anti cables are better than romex. since they have a very thin dielectric. the dielectric would in this case be causing the skin effect if anything did.

 the only thing virtual dynamics may have ever told the truth about is large gauge cables vs. stranded. the stranded cables tend to take the same signal on each strand times the amount of strands. these signals arrive at different times. this is in the electric domain but it could translate to what you are hearing. that was not an actual qoute just an observation of where they were coming from.

 i would like to try the anti cables. they are only 56 cents more a foot than romex. if they are even better that is as good as i feel i need. the romex is already superior(big imo) to some super expensive cables i have. they are so transparent. i feel i now know what the speakers "really" sound like. which luckily in my case is good. fancy cables did this or that but nothing pleasent to me. i do like owning fancy things so i understand the real cachet of these things. maybe i will make a sculpture out of them!

 also i am not trying to cut into anti's sales by suggesting romex. other than you can get it midnight at home depot. from what i can gather he is one of the few honest people making cables. he does not overcharge at all and is very truthefull from what i can gather. he has also had great reviews much the same to my findings with romex. however, his product "appears" to be somewhat improved for audio romex "style" cable. i honestly don't know anything about him other than what i have read but he looks worthy of suppport to me. so, if you want something that is at least a little classier than "construction wire" he seems like the place. i have never dealt with him i am just going by what i have read.

 music_man


----------



## drewfus420

I will guestimate that each and every one of you have heard Romex 12/2 or Carol 12/2 pushing nice speakers.
 Ever seen music live?
 I have worked as a touring audio engineer and at few different sound reinforcement companies, and nearly every speaker cable I used or made used this type of wire for everything from monitor wedges to huge line arrays...


----------



## music_man

drewfus420, do you agree it sounds real good?

 there is a vast difference in live show sound quality. what neil diamond does for 5,000 people is amazing. rush too. the house of blues sounds great in a smaller venue. then their are some rap and death metal bands that have rotten sound quality but not all of them do either. i'd guess the judge would really be 2 channels in a average size homes bedrrom/living room with quality equipment though.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i wanted to give you guys a safety heads-up!

 these sound much better unterminated as i said earlier. i have top of the line wbt binding posts and they are already being damaged from the stiffness/weight. i think these have to be terminated with spades or bananas unfortunately.

 if a post breaks off and the wires short, kiss it all goodbye. good sound is one thing but don't risk your entire investment. 

 get good spades or bananas though. they will cost more than the cable, also unfortunately. if you get something that does not make a good connection that is pretty risky as well. or just give the anti's a try.

 music_man


----------



## Bones13

1) my Monitor Audio RS-6 speakers did have 2 sets of binding posts, and for that reason I was using bi-wiring. (bypasses the crossover I think?)

 2) The new speakers - Zu Audio Essence - have no crossover, and only one set of binding posts.

 3) The Beldon Star Quad I have is pretty hefty. Now that I am using it as a single cable, when I twist the 2 wires together to put into the LOK spades on one end, and bananas on the other end are a tough fit, and those are some big terminators. I am sure the WBT terminators are better, but I wanted the simplicity of the current terminators, which attach to the cable with 2 allen set screws each.

 4) I am building a new house in a couple years, and I will be planning my study/music listening room carefully. I am planning on a set of anti-cables for that room.

 5) Ouch on the terminal damages.


----------



## music_man

today i got some 12/3(using only 2) hard duty power cable. it has 19 strands per conductor. it's double shielded. it is huge. covered it pink mylar techflex with blue heatshrink. either it looks girly or serious. i have not heard it yet. i have to go get a part.

 i went to get the 6awg but i took this to try instead. the 6awg is very stiff and i don't know any bananas that will fit it. i certainly wouldn't wrap that around a binding post. i wonder what people that are using it are doing to terminate it.

 this gives me some satisfaction. building something myself,ending up with pretty good sound so far. not shelling out thousands for cables that cost a couple hundred to manufacture. intrestingly, this cable appears to be real good copper. it is very bright looking and soft. so i doubt is is standard grade annealed. plus it says "made in usa". that makes me feel pretty good too. i have expensive cables that go to lengths to hide they are made in china. i don't mind where they are made but at least be honest about it.

 i'll say how the power cable is in some hours.

 music_man


----------



## drewfus420

MusicMan-it does sound really good, and it is what I was running before I made some braided solid core ones for my A5s.


----------



## music_man

ok i got the giant "hose" going. i gotta let it cook a few days before i am sure about it.
 in the rest of this post i will refer to it as "hose",without the quotes. since i have no idea what it is actually called.

 in a nutshell: it is a deadringer for tara's "omega gold",imho! thats amazing, because do you know what that costs? i demoed the tara for 2 hours recently so it is in my mind. when i went insane though i got the odin.

 i guess people are right, fat cables have more bass. tight bass here. more imaging. more soundstage. more separation. more prat. more upfront. more air. more....more,more!

 i think it is a fluke that this is designed to handle 600 volts that it is so good for audio. i said i knew right off it was good copper when i saw it. then deeper into it, the conductors are spiraled, set in super thin teflon and then some type of air tubes! then jute shielding spiral, then braid shielding, then mylar shielding, then a super thick butyl jacket of some sort.

 the whole 12awgx3assy.(only used 2 conducters) is about 5/8"+ thick. i really hurt my fingers trying to get them looking respectable with the techflex and heat shrink. nothing bad though, just sore. 1" shrink didn't want to slide over the techflex on this hose! i put stainless caps on the ends and blue wire "shirts". looks freakin expensive!

 on the other hand this cable is honestly exagerated. it is like a 600lb man that has 10 plates for dinner. the romex style is way more natural,transpaerent and resolving.

 i like them both. it will be hard to decide. this proves to me personally two things. 
 1) cables really do make a huge difference. to the extent of entirely changing the character of a system. i think anyone could hear this difference between these two. it's completely different. 2) you do not need to spend very much to enjoy experimenting with cables!

 i wanted the 6awgx4 they had but my senses quickly set in. it was as thick as a two hundred year old oak stump! the man said "if you want the sixer i gotta git me a coupla more helpers" lol! i can only imagine if it is more syrupy than the 12. it might actually sound bad at that point. this made my solid state equipment go totally tubes on me. really cool indeed.

 i wish i had made my own power cords now. i find they make a difference as well but not as much as speaker wire or ic's so i am not going to run out and get the stuff right now. i don't have enough time to make them all.

 i also i wish i knew this before i bought all the odin! woops. the odin is more like the romex sound. maybe a little more transparent and resolving though. not worth the arm and leg it cost me imo. now that i know this.

 don't feel bad if you got the romex and you want the hose too. the whole pretty finished cable cost less than $35 for two 8 foot runs. except the stainles caps and fancy bananas. i turned the caps myself. if you bought them they might be expensive but you hardly need those. the hose itself was $1.85 a foot. there are hoses starting at $.99 a foot but not with as much shielding and dielectric. hd has 10 nice bananas for $18. whereas anticables avoided too much dielectric, i think all the "pie" in this cable is what makes it so blooming,lush,open and airy.

 it seems "carol" brand is the way to go with these electric/audio cables. made in usa. made well. others could be good as wel. my jackpot has been carol thus far.
 my romex and the hose are both carol. every home improvement super store has this brand it seems.

 this was a cool experiment. i hope anyone else that tries it enjoys it as well.

 i might try the original idea here of the two very thin plastic dielectric 6awg twisted.

 edit: forgot to mention something intresting. this cable apparently has a high internal resistance. i left the volume knob on the amp where it was with the romex. installed the hose. seems like about -6db less volume with the hose. all that dielectric and shield is obviously raising the cables resistance. i guess that is why it is designed to handle 200c! if your amp is not so robust you might want to avoid this hose.

 now i have a question for you guys please. this cable weighs a ton. i had to use huge furutech bananas. the copper is indeed 12awg but the dielectric is maybe 4awg. i did not want bare copper sticking out the back! the end of the banana is about 1" long. it only goes into the posts on the speakers about 1/2" and the rest sicks out. it is "jammed" in there though super tight. the post wont break on the fabers. what i want to know is if i am asking for a short somehow? they aren't even close to touching each other or coming loose. i was mainly worried if something falls across them. or anything else to wory about with them not fully inserted? 

 music_man


----------



## music_man

apparently the electrons just had to align. i now have the volume knob lower than it was with the romex!

 the low and high extension is beyond description with these. they are not boomy. they are not brite. they are not sibilant. they just boldly go places no other cable has ever gone before(tm?). it takes getting used to. right now i find it fatiguing. there is a lot of information to pay attention to. i can hear nuances i cannot hear with the odin. even though i picked the odin, these are almost a clone of the tara omega golds.

 these are for all practical purposes $27,000 cables that cost about $450 as i configured them. you could get the same exact sound out of them minus the aesthetics(if you even like mine) for $50 or so.

 simply amazing. i am positive anyone could hear the difference these make. i feel it is absoulutley not a placebo. this is like blue jeans on steroids.

 i am sorry i recommended the romex so quickly before i settled on these. i can only imagine where these will be at 100 hours or so.

 jackpot!

 music_man


----------



## music_man

sorry to hijack my own thread. i'm having fun.

 i just got done installing the famous lowes 6awg. the two wires are so stiff they tilted the fabers on their stands. thats pushing over like 180lbs! at least i know how to replace a binding post. i don't see how anyone could trust this regardless of how it sounds. now, i will find out for myself.

 i won't post in this thread about it unless anyone shows intrest. i'll leave ya'll be now.

 music_man


----------



## haloxt

Do you think lowe's and home depot wires are good for headphones? I've been swapping between canare's best microphone cable and blue dragon v2 and impressed with the 70 cent/foot cable, want more cheap cables now.


----------



## music_man

i am glad you posted. i get to speak lol. i wasn't going to keep bombarding my own thread. thanks!

 i have no idea what you would use there for headphones. these are all huge gauge electrical construction wires.

 i think a blue(baltic lativan universal electronics) microphone cable makes an outstanding headphone cable for some headphones. like the hd650 for instance. but they are not cheap. like $50 to $200 for 15 feet. mic cable is great cable and especially great for headphones.

 if you want a great cheap headphone cable try horizon/vtg lowz-1 mic cable. $45 cents a foot. real good sound. i use it for xlr balanced connections between dacs and preamps in the studio.

 cheap cables rock! i now realise anything you can get out of an expensive cable can be had in a cheap cable as well.

 i hate the 6awg cable! some of you might find it is exactly what you want though.
 it has zero influence on the sound. it is 100% transparent. or the closest to it i have ever heard. it is like the speakers terminals are soldered to the amps terminals.

 the romex was very transparent but it offered a little bit of nice flavor.

 the hose is my favorite here. it totally flavors the sound. in a very pleasent way,imo.

 i'll let the 6awg break in 100 hours and see what happens but i doubt anything. it must measure completely flat. i can't see that changing much but who knows.

 as i mentioned these cables are very well dangerous to your equipment. if a connector breaks off and something shorts, goodbye!

 i have now tasted for myself all the classic home improvement super store audio cable offerings!

 it is kind of fun to put them together too. i didn't just make mine look shoddy. i finished them real nice. to that effect i put real loose techflex on the 6awg. so it would not influence the sound. maybe some tight wrap will do something to it. i only used 6 feet so i spiraled every 6 inches instead of every foot as bound for sound had recommended. if i wanted some flavor i probably should have constructed it a little differently. i also used nice bananas that just fit. they were $1.50 each. $50 bananas didn't have a prayer of fitting.

 music_man


----------



## mminutel

I wouldn't use any cables from Lowes/HD for headphones unless they are really budget phones. Even then, I would still much rather order cable from Markertek. If you decided to try Lowes/HD cable, definitely don't get anything that has been mentioned in this thread. It is way too big.


----------



## music_man

yup no headphone cables to be found at home improvement centers. can't get everything there. however, these are real good speaker cables that have been mentioned in this thread. a lot of highly regarded reviewers think so. so did mcintosh and krell untill their dealers got mad they were not bolstering cable sales for them.

 now, i am such a dufus! i had one speaker wired out of phase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !
 duh! this cable actually sounds just a little different now haha. i'll save you another page description. let's just say what the magazines raved about is right here. my bad.

 the reason that happened to me is i was literally shaking with fear when the sonus faber almost hit the ground. these might sound good but they are scarier than "monster" cables! whew!

 the sound....ahhh the sound. all $20 worth of it!

 edit:mminutel, so how's the romex sound?

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i can't beleive that stupid mistake. ok, i think this is the best speaker cable i have ever heard at any price. let alone for $20. it says 100 hours for break in and i am only at 2 hours! whew, did i just say it sucked 3 posts up lol.

 very similar to the romex. with better prat. more low frequency extension. more balance. more resolving. better imaging,soundstage, better seperation. more air around instruments. no sibilance. very well balanced. mostly neutral. better than the hose. the hose does this stuff by adding a lot of coloration. the 6awg is pretty flat. the romex is like the lower end version of the 6awg.

 well, it took me 3 diy cables to figure out what was already said everywhere. the romex is still the best for one reason. you cut it,strip it,conect it. the 6awg is so hard to work with. especially if you are "finishing" it. it took 3 hours to build with 2 trips back to the store when i stripped it wrong. then another 3 hours to resetup my speakers after i almost knocked them over. high end speaker placement is very important to their proper function.

 i wouldn't be using $20 cables on a stereo like mine if i thought they weren't the best. especially having odin sitting on the floor that was just replaced by these! i challenge anyone that says cables don't make any difference to go spend a $20 bill.

 it really surprises me that such a huge stranded speaker cable, of supposedly poor quality metal sounds this good. i have no idea why. science would suggest otherwise. whatever works.

 i wanted to mention, some have said to run the writing on any of these cables away from the amp and towards the speakers. that is nonsense. these were not built to be directional. the copper goes in any old way at the factory. what is important is that once you energize them you then do not switch them around in any way. copper as do other conductive metals have a memory. install it and leave it. or if you must remove them make sure to mark all ends for future installation.

 also, i'd love this for power cords maybe. problem is there are no off the shelf terminations this size. ps audio and shunyata had 6awg cables with a lot of shielding. thick as bowling pins too. they used their own proprietary termiantions though. stuffing the bananas is fine. you do not go stuffing a iec or plug end with 120vac obviously.

 making a speaker cable is probably the easiest diy project and offers huge bang for the buck imo.

 i am very pleased after all.

 music_man


----------



## mminutel

I still haven't gotten my speakers yet. With the holidays, I will probably not get them for another week.


----------



## music_man

as it turns out people are saying it was southwire 6awg that sonded so good. lowe's now carries cerro. i don't see any difference. it sounds amazing.

 i think there might be a reason these sound so good. the strands are flat zigzags that interlock. this is done to reduce the skin effect of their 600vac rms rating. many high end audiophile cables use similar strand geometries. it is just a fluke that these employ the same thing in a 29 cetn per foot cable. it is unfortunate that they do not have smaller cables like this. these are downright dangerous to the health of your equipment imo. i am taking steps to minimize a disaster though because i love the sound.

 it is not only if a binding post breaks. if it then shorts your finished.

 i am not worried about the fabers, they have super robust posts. the yba integre is reffited with wbt nextgen's. they are strong but not really up to this task it looks like. the bananas are literally bending. not good. so far the posts have not given in. they could at any time though. i'd be very carefull with this cable. everything has a downside i guess.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i decided i like the "hose" better. it is very high end sound for a $20 wire. just a different flavor. the 6awg and romex are much more neutral/trasnparent. if anyone is deciding i'd choose between the hose and the romex. without proper precautions in place the 6awg can cause a lot of damage to your equipment.

 now i just have to swap them. not much of a pain. 8' cables on bananas. takes 3 minutes!

 this was a great expirement. i hope it saves some folks thousands if they don't feel they need something to brag about. if you finish the cables no one knows anyways.

 edit: apparently i was using the wrong brand of 6awg. it has to be southwire they say. which is strange, because the copper quality and strand geomitry seems superior for audio in the cerro. just so it can handle 600vac. they didn't have audio in mind i assure you. the hose just sounds full, but not bloated. really because it is physically fat. full of dielectric. the trade off is on the top end but mine needed smoothing anyhow so it works great.


 music_man


----------



## music_man

after the cerro 6awg broke in it sounds amazing. i am keeping this in place for now. many said the cerro was no good and it had to be southwire. i disagree. the cerro actually has a fancy cable geometry to avoid skin effect at 600v. it also has continous cast,flat,shaped conductors! i i asked cerro. more bass, tighter bass, slightly rolled off smother highs, toe tapping prat. sums it up for me.

 i urge anyone that does not want to be sorry about their wallet to go spend $20 on these. if you don't like them go get whatever you wish. it is like a $20 insurance policy! 

 the romex is more neutral/transparent. if that is what you wish for. in my system the cerro is like nothing else at any price. others have echoed these comments in different systems, albeit with the southwire. i mantain the cerro is technically superior. i have not heard the southwire. probably never will, it is discontinued.

 i wish to make power cables with this. however, there is no off the shelf connectors that can accept 6awg wire. maybe i will try their 10awg and see how that goes.

 if cables were fairly priced i wouldn't even have ever discovered this! trust me, this cable is good. i stuffed odin i just got into a shoebox because of this!

 music_man


----------



## haloxt

What power cables are you using right now? If stock, I think you'll like the sound change just using the thickest wires that will fit in home depot ac connectors.

 I'd like to see for myself just how much of a difference purity makes. From my very limited experience I'm leaning more to the idea that gauge, vibration control, geometry/shielding are more important, and much cheaper than cables with higher purity.


----------



## music_man

i have very high end power cables now. i think i can build better ones for $20 though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the "snake oil" is not at all the cables themselves. they really do work. it is the prices they charge in relation to what they cost to make. do not even talk about what it cost them to design please! that argument does not apply here! most all of the cables are bought from suppliers and "put" together from these companies. there are less than 10 huge companies that actually "draw" copper or silver in the world!

 how about their time then? i can make a cable that will blow your wheels off in an hour! how boutz you pay me $27,000 an hour then,ok?

 music_man


----------



## drewfus420

Lowes has 15ft Romex 12/2 for under $10
 I put the one I used to have on mt A5's on the center channel of my surround system, and split the 15 footer in half for my r/l channels and after 10 hours of burn in or so last night I think they are a little fuller (esp in the lower octaves) then the Monster 12awg they replaced.


----------



## kite7

If I get these cables, I'll need to re terminate it with TRS male on one end and RCA male on the other. Still worth doing? I need to find a place selling some good plugs


----------



## music_man

i just happened upon 500 feet of white southwire for $10! well it is not as good as the cerro. at least before break in. i will update when it is. the cerro is technically superior both for heavy electric and audio. electricity is electricity. it is better cable.

 with martin dewulf and sam tellig or whatever, listen to what they say then think for yourself. everyone was up in arms because it is no longer available and md said it has to be southwire. wrong! ymmv.

 music_man


----------



## LingLing1337

So when using this cable, do you remove the two wires from the sleeving and braid them, or do you leave them inside and use them straight?


----------



## music_man

they already are tightly bradied "and" interlocked inside of the sleeve only in the cerro! they are a flat zigzag interclocked strand! then i twist the hot and neutral wires together of course leaving them in their jackets. the other thing is they have a nylon web over the conductors and then a pvc jacket! these were made for high end speaker and ac cables! too bad no ac connectors will fit them. i am thinking though. seriously you have to be careful with ac though, so i am.

 the southwire is just a standard round unbraided conductor.

 music_man


----------



## LingLing1337

I bought the Cerro Romex 12-2 and they're just three straight wires in a jacket.


----------



## music_man

indeed they are. i was speaking of the cerro 6awg thhn wire. it is two seperate wires one for hot and one for neutral. you twist the actual wires and the strands inside the big wire are twisted together,flat and interlocking(19 of them). it is a bear to make speaker cables out of them but they sound amazing. the romex is more neutral sounding.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

the 6awg when properly put together is incredible. it took me several tries to get it together sounding just right. right number of twists etc.

 i spent about $200 finishing them. they look nicer than most expensive cables now and they are worthy of it.

 these are the best cables i have heard. this echoes the statements of some famous reviewers, albeit with the southwire which is not as good really. they didn't like the cerro though, so go figure.

 i have about 15 cables on hand up to some of the most expensive made and i prefer this to all of them.

 hmmm. maybe i'll go into business!

 music_man


----------



## AudioCats

or you can use some pro-grade microphone wire, parallel several to make a big cable. Sounds pretty nice.

 won't be < $1/ft though, more like $5/ft.


----------



## AudioCats

yes we want to see a high-resolution photo of that 15 speaker cables together, will be fun


----------



## music_man

the guitar center style speaker cable is not even close to the sonics of the stuff we are discussing in this thread.

 i decided to swap the odin for the 6awg cerro for a while. not even close to dbt. i am positive it is not placebo. the 6awg cerro totally transforms the sound. for the better.

 if you can put it together i highly recommend it!

 music_man


----------



## xguntherc

Well I don't have anything amazing, or all that nice for home audio, but t sounds decent, and when I need to I swith to Home Theatre mode. 

 I have a denon 7.1 and some floorstanding 3 way, dual 6.5 speaker Infinity Primus P362 speakers, with my rears I use occasionally for movies being Bose acoustimass cubes and there large as he'll bass module. I use the stereo mode for music more than theatre setup. 

 It's decent. And I just added the bose cubes and sub last night. I used some Rocketfish 14 AWG wire from bestbuy, it was much cheaper than anything else, or the lame monster wire, the rocketfish was $29 for $50ft and it honestly felt much stronger and better made then the rest. I used it, then switched to some "THX" certified 12 Awg monster cable m. Brother bought. And the rocketfish sounded better, there was some weird things coming from that thx cert. junk

 what should I use. The romex? This will be running up a wall to the cubes also


----------



## mminutel

Hey. Just got my speakers today, but I don't have any other cables to do comparisons. Anyways, how in the heck did you get that ground wire out? Are your cables short or something, because I am trying to pull them out of 10' cables and the rest of the wire wants to come with them.


----------



## music_man

hold the two wires at one end with a vise grips and put another vise grips on the ground on the other end. or use a real bench vise. good luck! i managed but it was darn hard. it will sound better with the ground wire out not creating crosstalk though. keep the wire straight when you pull. might need two people.

 i don't know about the romex going to bose cubes. it will be ugly and could break something. dang stiff snakes these are.

 music_man


----------



## mminutel

I got it right before you replied. My dad came home and I told him about my predicament. I held the two wires with linesman's pliers while he pulled the ground out. It wasn't easy at all, but I now have my RC-10s bi-wired.


----------



## LingLing1337

Huh. Are you talking about the Romex 12-2? I got the ground out with very little trouble.

 EDIT: How are those RC-10 by the way?


----------



## mminutel

How long is your cable? It was relatively easy to pull when someone was holding the two wires on the other end that you need to keep. My trouble was that the other wires wanted to come out with the ground. I was able to pull a 5' cable that I had left over from making the others with ease.

 As for the RC-10s, I am liking them a lot currently. I made a post about them that is a little lower in the forum. I wont make any comparisons until I have them hooked up at my house with the turntable and media PC.


----------



## LingLing1337

I cut a 25' roll in half, so 12.5' each and I had no problem pulling the ground.


----------



## catachresis

I'm sorely tempted to fall face flat onto the Romex bandwagon. My speaker cable (and XLR ICs) are original DNM mono solid-core ribbons (here). They've been great, and, indeed, with a few years of burn-in, the speaker ribbons went from a very harsh, angular sound to a full, simply neutral conduit for music. How could there have been such a huge change? --I remember calling my audio consultant in Auburn (Mike Shotts-best guy in hifi I've known) long distance and giving him h3ll for telling me to buy the stuff, and he said, play it a 100 hours and see. And, indeed, it eventually did great things.

 But I'm getting past the point of wanting to spend upwards of $350.00 just to try a new flavor of IC or speaker cable. What I want to know is, once one has terminated say 12/2 awg Romex with banana plugs or spades, what is the process for affixing the vinyl/plastic sleeve that covers the exposed juncture between the connector and the unexposed wire cable? I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to trouble with the cosmetics of tech-flex that would cover the entire length of the romex cable.

 Further, what is the consensus about the exposed wires? I've seen one site suggest that each exposed solid core wire of the Romex 12/2 cable (ground extracted) should just be sanded and then locked into the connector. Other sites have dictated that the exposed copper must be tinned with solder. Music_man and other experienced DIYers, which is the best practice?


----------



## music_man

huh? the exposed wire must contact the banana plug. you cannot cover it. romex is jacketed wire. the conductors(not the ground) are individually jacketed and there is a exterior tough jacket. once you cut the jacket back 1/2" to put into the bananas there will be no exposed wire!

 i am using the cerro. which is a big job. so i went all the way. my cables look like $1,000 cables. with multicolor techflex,heatshrink,sleeving and boots. the job start to finish took about 4 hours per cable. totally worth it! it replaced very high end cables and sound much better.

 music_man


----------



## catachresis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_huh? the exposed wire must contact the banana plug. you cannot cover it. romex is jacketed wire. the conductors(not the ground) are individually jacketed and there is a exterior tough jacket. once you cut the jacket back 1/2" to put into the bananas there will be no exposed wire!

 i am using the cerro. which is a big job. so i went all the way. my cables look like $1,000 cables. with multicolor techflex,heatshrink,sleeving and boots. the job start to finish took about 4 hours per cable. totally worth it! it replaced very high end cables and sound much better.

 music_man_

 

Thanks! My fault. I hadn't realized that the strands themselves would be fully jacketed and insulated, which simplifies the whole procedure. Nonetheless, specifying that 1/2" should be stripped for the connector is extremely helpful. At the moment, I'm not at all concerned with cosmetics, so I'll try the minimum and see where it goes from there.

 Thanks for your reply, Music_man!


----------



## music_man

i have tried the properly assembled cerro 6awg against many other cables costing up to $27,000. i am amazed at how good these sound. this has got to be the biggest secret ever in audio! i have brought them to stores, they listened for a while and said "get out of here i hate you"! or something to that effect. i guess that means it is not just me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 shhh!

 music_man


----------



## MadMan007

catachresis - the reason for tinning copper wires in a case like this where you wouldn't be soldering them is to protect the bare copper from corrosion. It's the same reason stuff is gold-plated.

 I'm tempted to try this out. I guess it proves what the EE have said - gauge and thus resistance is what matters in speaker wire. The only thing holding me back is some measure of laziness and the fact that romex or other large gauge solid core wire is a pain to work with - very stiff! - compared to braided type wires. Plus I would probably want to terminate them with bananas which might defeat the purpose. It might be better to find binding posts that have a hole perpendicular to the length of the binding post (across the radius) that you then clamp down with the knob.


----------



## music_man

seriously, try to do the cerro 6awg. if you arer lazy forget it though. it takes about 2 hours to make them. almost 3 1/2 hours if you are going to techflex them and everything.
 you use the hosa or radioshack double banana posts and cut them in half and file down the plastic burr if you want. they are actually stranded! the 19 strands are like 18 awg each though lol. it is a bear to get them into the binding posts. you twist them 180 degrees away from eachother every 6 inches. with one person it is quite a chore. use a a bench vice. make sure the lettering runs away from the amp. the cables are both black so make sure to mark them before you start.

 the bananas do not defeat the purpose. this is the only way to fit 6awg wires on speakers! plus these are the best bananas i have seen go figure. they have enough flex not to break the posts. you must take care to bend the wires into shape before trying to just jam them into the posts. then there will be little stress on them.

 this is a big project that can turn into a entire day if you are not somewhat skilled with pulling wire. it is totally worth it. the romex is pretty good. the cerro is amongst the best wire i have ever heard. the geometry of the wire and the fact it is ofhc to handle 600 volts is just perfect for audio. spend the extra time to wrap them up pretty and people will think you spent a fortune on them. i go into stores like a jerk and tell people i just went into business and these are $15,000. they listen, then i tell them they cost $20. thats when they fly off the handle lol.

 music_man


----------



## MadMan007

You keep talking about twisting or bending the wires. Aside from bending for fit to make them work in a certain application what do you mean? Can you take some pictures?


----------



## music_man

i am talking about the cerro 6awg wire. there are two wires. a positive and a negative. you twist them together 180 degrees away from each other every 6 inches. this has noise cancellation effects. you twist them just like a cat-5 cable is twisted. only that these wires are 20 times the size of a individual cat-5 conductor. just like you would twist two garbage bag twist ties together.

 the romex you do not twist at all. you use it exactly as i described before.
 the romex is pretty good. the cerro built as i have described with the $6 dual bananas that you cut apart is some of the top speaker cable there is imo.

 i don't take pictures and i couldn't anyways. it is way too hard to get off the speakers and then i'd have to remove the techflex and everything. sorry.

 this stuff is very hard to work with. unless you have some skill pulling wire or something you might need another person to help.

 music_man


----------



## MadMan007

So the cerro 6 gauge comes in single-conductor 'package,' and then you twist two of those single-conductor wires together?

 Or is it a two-conductor package molded together that you then twist?

 Too bad you won't take pics, I don't quite understand that aside from the fact that you don't want to take apart the techflex. Seems kind of paranoid wierdo to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However I'm pretty sure twisting does nothing for speaker wire because of the type of signal that travels on it, this regardless of what cable snakeoil sales literature says.


----------



## music_man

i am indeed paranoid about the internet. i apologize about that. anyways i was not going to undo what took me several hours per cable.

 the cerro comes off a 1000' roll as one single jacketed cable containing 19 strands. you need two for each speaker. a positive and a negative. i agree twisting them is probably snakeoil but might as well. it is not a two cable package molded together. it is a single 
 package of 19 conductors for one terminal connection.

 even cutting off the jacket is a chore. these are very big heavy wires. some people have said what really matters in a speaker wire is gauge. they also happen to be ofhc and have flat,tapered strands. this was so it can handle 600vac. it just happened to be great for audio as well.

 i bet i can make these and make a lot of money but i have no intrest in that. i bet that now that i have talked about it so much someone else will soon.

 it is at home depot and lowes. some people say the cerro is not good and the southwire is the stuff. i have both and completely disagree. ymmv.

 music_man


----------



## MadMan007

Well I prefer more neutral unflavored sound (at most any flavoring should all come from the end of the line, in this case speakers, imo) so romex would probably be best anyway.


----------



## haloxt

I like using a variety of cables for different occasions, since these cables are so cheap you might as well get them all and try.


----------



## Kitarist

can someone post some photos of these cables


----------



## music_man

i keep telling myself i must replace these with expensive speaker cables. just because they are expensive and that will make me feel macho. i can't bring myself to do it. i have a/b'd these with cables from $1,000 to $27,000 and these are darn good.

 i am having a hard time delaing with it. i can't brag about them around the water cooler but isn't it the sound that matters?

 music_man


----------



## music_man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kitarist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can someone post some photos of these cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

actually i would not mind posting these. even though i do not put photos of posssesions on the net because i am paranoid. the thing is they are too hard to take off. plus they are completely "finished". they look like any other expensive speaker cables but with no name tag. what shall i christen them?

 music_man


----------



## catachresis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MadMan007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_catachresis - the reason for tinning copper wires in a case like this where you wouldn't be soldering them is to protect the bare copper from corrosion. It's the same reason stuff is gold-plated._

 

I appreciate the clarification, MadMan. I might consider tinning the exposed leads later.

 I've now got 2x 25' of Romex 8/3 and 50' of Romex 12/3, along with a mess of reusable screw-connector bananas and spades. A friend of mine and I will mess with these over the weekend and see what transpires.


----------



## music_man

does anyone know any other hidden speaker wires "gems"? 
 i know the "halloween" cable and cat-5. i am thinking next i will either do 8x 12 awg solid wires. or i might double up on 2x 2awg cerro! i will fit industrial spades to these and attach them to bananas.

 i have seen some people feel the larger gauge is the most important thing.

 i can't go larger than 2x 2 awg. that is huge! do you guys think i should try it?

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i might try a cerro #000awg! thick as a man's wrist. now that's low resistance. the man with the biggest wire wins! so long as it does not break my binding posts, then i lose!

 i see many high end cables that are between #2 to less than #0. i see the point of low resistance. "to" a point. assuming you stick with the same wire, going below 4awg is there any sonic improvment? i am probably asking the wrong folks lol.

 edit: crud i just found out there is no "off the shelf" spade lugs for #000awg wire,doh! isn't that getting carried away anyway? the biggest manufactured wire i can find is a tara which is #0. it is also $33,000! i guess they make their own connector then lol. most ultra high end cables i have found are between #6 and #2. why not go for broke as long as it is not costing much to play. i figure if bigger than #6 was the best diy cable, the magizines that stated it was the best cable they ever heard would have said so.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i am sorry to report, that after exhaustive searching i have found a few better cables..... and they cost as much as a new luxury car! i am not going to do the huge gauge i decided. the 6awg is plenty good. to get any better is going to cost 5 figures+. i already have a few examples on hand but sometimes it is best to quit while yor wallet is ahead.

 music_man


----------



## mikeymad

Stopped by my Ace Hardware the other day - for unrelated items, and picked up a 25 run of 12-2. This was to run from my WA5 -> Stax SRD7. 

 Cut two 3' lengths, pulled the center ground out of them. I was going to leave them in the outer jacket, but they were too loose. So I pulled the Black and White out and created a twisted pair (hurt my thumb a little). My first time, so they do not look great. Stripped the ends, and with a little bit of bending was able to get them hooked up with no real issue. 

 Sound?

 Pretty darn good. At first I was not that happy, but the Woo was not warmed up and I had just turned the Stax on as well. Over the course of the next several hours it got better and better. Have not given them enough time to be able to write any review at this point. But I have to say that I didn't find them doing anything wrong. They seemed to do their job and get out of the way.

 In the future I will have to take the rest of the 25' and make a pair for my speakers. Then I would be able to compare them directly to a run of Exposure cable that I have.

 Thx for the thread.

 Cheers,


----------



## jilgiljongiljing

Well after all these posts. I HAD to try it out myself. Went to Lowes and picked up Southwire 12-2 Romex 25 feet. I saw the cable and thought, this doesnt look that hard to work with, I've managed BJC's 12 gauge which is quite a monster. But I come home and open it up and find out what the OP was referring to. Solid core is hard to work with. But the awesome thing with it is that it holds shape. I couldnt remove the ground, I tried but it was too hard and I didnt want to mess up the construction in the process. I just chopped it off and covered it in electrical tape. 

 Removing the jackets was really easy and the cable is quite friendly once you get used to the thickness and stiffness. 

 Connecting it to my JBL speakers wasnt an issue with solid metal binding posts. But my Onkyo 9555 wasnt easy. But I found a nice little solution for that. Make a inverted U shaped hook just before the tip and the cable slips right into the side without making a fuss. If you leave the cable hanging though, its gonna tug real hard, get long enough cable so it can rest on the ground or on cable risers. If you have it hanging theres gonna be way too much stress on the posts.

 As for the sound, its really impressive. I mean I really wasnt expecting anything much. Testing with Lee Ritenour's Wes Bound album, the treble has really smoothed out. I was using Radioshack cables before this and found the treble to be a bit grating and sharp sounding. Now its nice and smooth and very natural sounding. The bass has really definitely gained body and sounds rounder and fuller now. Everythings nice and quiet and has a smooth feeling overall. Thumbs up overall. Definitely worth a trip to HD or Lowes or your local hardware store. Will compare it with Blue Jeans 12 gauge when I get the time this weekend.


----------



## music_man

comparing to a $22,000 set of cables lol. 

 the lowes 6awg is warm,round,deep bass,smooth,liquid,somewhat rolled off highs,lush midrange.

 the expensive cable has much more detail,much better prat,more forward,better imaging, placement,crisper highs,tighter bass. it lacks the above attributes of the lowes cable though.

 i think i prefer the second. however, look what we are comparing. there might very well be people with 22 grand to spend that would prefer the sound of the lowes cable.

 i would say the lowes cable is very stiff competition for many $3,000+ cables. that is saying a lot. it is not untill you tear your wallet to shreds that something truely bests the lowes cable. plus that is only in my opinion. as i just said many might still prefer the lowes cables. honestly i am not even sure about this. i cannot a/b cables this big and cumbersome. fyi, the expensive cable is made of many small cables each in their own hollow tube for a total of 0awg per post. i wonder if a 0awg wire from lowes will best it to my ears!

 music_man


----------



## jrosenth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does anyone know any other hidden speaker wires "gems"?_

 

magnet wire

 it's thin and easy enough to work with and can sound very good

 google it and you'll see a host of DIYers and reviews from places like positive feedback - classic combo with full rangers and tubes/t-amps

 anticables is essentially a larger gauge magnet wire


----------



## SilverCans

I don't get this thread. The OP goes on about how great the speaker cables sound but yet didn't hear the fact that the speakers were wired out of phase? Hmm...

 Well I wish him and everyone the best of luck. Really it comes down to what a person is happy with. If a pair of paper clips sound good as ICs to a person then great, more power to them.

 cheers


----------



## music_man

if i remember that correctly, i did not realise immediately they were out of phase. i knew something didn't sound right. then i looked, and sure enough. once they were wired properly they sounded great.

 i think you should hear them before you compare them to a paperclip. these cables could sell for a few thousand and no one would bat an eye imo. in fact, if they did i bet everyone that doubts them would have a different opinioon! it is just like the $100,$10 bottle of wine that keeps being mentioned. they sound much different then this particular pair of expensive cables. just different, not better or worse. in fact i know of a pair of much more expensive cables that sound very similar.

 music_man


----------



## jilgiljongiljing

SilverCans I understand your skepticism and while I really do appreciate the OP for posting about this, you can slightly tone it down a bit with the 20000 cable stuff, that kinda makes it sound like an ebay ad of sorts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But I personally have nothing to fake here, I simply went to Lowes after work and bought the Romex cable and worked with it and I immediately felt like posting because I really did hear a difference over the Radioshack cables I was using before. Not giant killing comparison here, but IMO, if you are just looking for budget cables, I'd pick this one up and I dont remember hearing this much of a difference when I used BJC's cable. Hence my post with a good review.

 I will probably never buy a cable for more than 100$, thats just me, so I'll not know if thats gonna make a difference over the Romex, but for the budget audiophile, who believes in cables but doesnt want to shell out a lot of money, Romex is fantastic.


----------



## music_man

the 6awg cerro is a giant step above the romex. seriously. imo, it will compete with "anything". it is different than many flavors of cables but i would not say better or worse. no one really has anything to lose. it is less than 20 bucks. i do not feel it is a giant "killer" but it is certainly a "giant" in it's own right. again, it is just a fluke that this came to be. a very welcome fluke indeed if i must say so myself.

 i am not the first person that compared this to very expensive cables either.
 however they feel the the "southwire" is better than the cerro. that is where i disagree. bound for sound did this long ago. it is not a stretch to compare this to anything at any price. it just happened to be.

 music_man


----------



## LingLing1337

Was the Romex out of phase? How did you remedy this?


----------



## music_man

i don't even really remember this. i think i just reversed the polarity accidently. then obviously i realised something did not sound right. once i had the polarity correct it sounded very good. nothing to do with the cable. my own stupidity hooking it up backwards. just a dumb mistake. like i said i don't even really remember when i did that. it was awhile ago.

 the cerro is much better sounding than the romex imo. of course the romex sounds way better than you would guess as well.

 music_man


----------



## lmswjm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 the cerro is much better sounding than the romex imo. of course the romex sounds way better than you would guess as well.

 music_man_

 

 Could it be that the Cerro bettered the Romex due to it's thicker gauge more than it's design?


----------



## music_man

i think it is a combination of both. it's thicker gauge helps a lot i'd think. some people think all that matters in a speaker wire is gauge(magazine reviewers).

 do not underlook it's design though. it is actually very complex. this was so it could handle 600 volts rms. it is a interlocking flat spiral. that is like what you would find in top of the line speaker wires. also it is ofc. i am almost positive it is not occ but that does not seem to matter. in fact it might even be occ but i wouldn't see why. i have no idea if it is or is not. it is very good quality copper i used a microscope to look at it. it has a very uniform surface, which is also what you find in the best speaker cables. i do not have enough x magnification to see the crystal grain though.

 this is just like a audiophile blessing really. i am going to try the 0awg after all at this point. i will be amazed if it can just outright beat anything. it won't be surprising though.

 music_man


----------



## jilgiljongiljing

I've always been curious, what happens after 1 AWG?  I guess 1 AWG itself will be as thick as my arm


----------



## n3rdling

How can a cable effect prat?


----------



## music_man

n3dling, no one can explain how a cable affects _anything_. also many people refuse to believe they do based on science or whatever. just use your ears. either you hear a difference or you don't. 
 i actually think i just made the best statement ever published regarding disbelief of cables having a sonic impact/character! "either you hear a difference or you don't"!

 jilg, after 0awg it goes to what is called "aut" meaning over zero. for instance five zeros(#00000) is thicker than a softball bat! about as stiff too!

 music_man


----------



## lmswjm

Okay, I picked up some Cerro 6 and installed it today. Awesome. 

 8 separate cables for biamping x's 5 feet = $24 for 40' total. What should have been a quick, simple install took longer because the cable is so stiff. Would have been nice to have small bolt cutters to cut this cable. I wound up using a hack saw, no kidding. I had to trim a few strands off the ends to allow a direct connection without banana plugs. Tedious to get a nice bare fit inside the banana jacks. Well worth it of course. No sleeving either, just 8 stripped wires. Couldn't be any simpler.

 This is for a NHT Xd system. The subs are self powered. This replaces the included Supra Rondo 4x2.5mm (13AWG) cables. 

 Better everything including detail, imaging, clarity, upper extension, instrument separation. Larger sweet spot, more life-like / natural. We are talking with no burn-in either.

 Best $24 ever spent on hi-fi, thanks Music Man!


----------



## sawdin

Has anyone who has done the 12/2 or 6awg compared them to "Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low Capacitance Audio Cable":? Blue Jeans seems to be somewhat reasonable in terms of pricing, though they do cost more than DIY 12/2 or 6awg (maybe not much difference if using connectors, techflex, etc. on the DIY cables).

 PS.. Earlier today I heard Hank William Jr's "Country Boys Can Survive" today...got a kick out of reading some of the comments from posters who had no clue what romex wire was like. ...Then again, I have no clue when audiophile's go into the science of 'audio'...


----------



## music_man

i am being totally serious guys. this stuff is simply amazing. i can put this up against cables that sell for multiple thousands and walk away satisfied! in fact i have. i know someone said to quit with those types of comparisons. it is really true though. if you happen to enjoy this cables sound, look no further! it is the killer app as they say lol. it just simply happens that this cheap stuff is about as good as can be had anywhere imo. some will not be satisfied unless they open their wallets. i felt that way as well. then i stood back and thought, is it about the sound i prefer or how much money i spent?

 if you are diggin' the romex, do yourself a huge favor and go get the 6awg cerro! i know what i titled this thread. based on romex. then i found the cerro. night and day.

 in fact i am now using double single wired 2awg cerro. the sound is even better! i am not kidding you. what does anyone have to lose here? well, some cable companies have a lot of sales to lose haha. you can even make these super pretty. i did. looks and sounds freaking incredible! i am hard pressed to find anything better than what i am currently using and they are not even burnt in!

 the only downside is the 6awg is hard to work with. 2posts(4wires per speaker) of 2awg is a downright bear. it is worth it. just take a lot of time so you don't break your equipment. which i will add is very possible if you rush.

 music_man


----------



## n3rdling

What is the rest of your system?


----------



## music_man

yba passion integre 300 amp,sonus faber guarneri memento's,rel q108 mkII(stock cable). lavry da924 and ml no. 31.5 for source.the aes/ebu is a straightwire infolink 3 meter and the xlr output is aq sky but i keep the batteries out,like it better that way.

 so you can see that i really appreciate these cables. certainly i have had much more expensive cables in this system. it is not always about price.

 music_man


----------



## n3rdling

Cool, didn't know anybody on headfi had a 31.5. Now you need to get the matching 30.6 DAC


----------



## music_man

not really, the lavry is a much more modern dac. i sold the 30.6 to get the lavry.
 in some respects the 30.6 was better but overall i prefer the lavry. dac's are one area that advanced since the 30.6 was made.

 music_man


----------

