# Monarchy DIP Combo (was "Classic" - impressions pg. 2)



## Golden Monkey

Does anyone have any feedback on their experiences with this little black box? I'm not really interested in the upsampler, although the classic can now be had with the upsampling installed as well. I am looking for a good upgrade over the stock clock in my DVD player, something to feed a true 44.1khz signal to my DAC, and I'm curious as to how well this will perform. Reviews state that it makes anywhere from a slight improvement to a dramatic improvement depending on source (with lower end sources benefitting the most), giving jitter reduction, improved imaging and soundstage, and boosting the output signal fed to the DAC. If anyone's used the one with upsampling, did you notice any SQ improvement with the upsampled signal? I know upsampling or not is contentious, so try to keep the arguing about it to a minimum please...lol. Thanks in advance!


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## Golden Monkey

Ok, well, let me put it this way then...has ANYONE used one of these, any of the models (Classic, Upsampler, whatever...)? Was it worth it, was there an improvement in sound, or was it too minimal to make much of a difference in your rig?


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## infinitesymphony

As you say, it will depend on the initial jitter of your source, and of the ability of the DAC to correct or re-clock jitter. If you have a poor source and a DAC that lacks jitter reduction, you stand to gain the biggest improvement. However, one thing that an intermediary re-clocking device like this can't correct are disc read errors. If the transport/source inaccurately reads the disc or doesn't properly send the information, it will never be corrected.

 So, it might make more sense from an economic standpoint to buy a better transport or source to ensure that the disc information is being properly read and transmitted.


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## Golden Monkey

Yeah, good point. Monarchy offers a 30 day guarantee, so I suppose I could try one out. My source seems to be pretty ok, jitter-wise (not that I could really tell). It reads really well too - I have several CDs that although there are no visible scratches, skip like mad on other players, but track just fine on the Denon. I never seem to hear any pops or anything either...hmm...


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## Capital

If you run a trial please report back. I've been wondering about this too.


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## Golden Monkey

I'm pretty sure I'll pick one up. I guess I'll get the Classic with 48/96 upsampling, what the heck, it's only $20 more.


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## feverfive

Oooh, how apropos that I found this thread via Google search... PLEASE report back if you ended up getting this device. I'm just starting to research this topic, as I'm looking to get a de-jitter device to run between my Apple TV (which has only optical TOSLINK out) and receiver (a Cambridge Audio 540R). I might be forced to go this way instead of getting a DAC that will re-clock (i.e. Benchmark DAC1) b/c I'm pretty sure the 540R will do ADC/DAC post processing regardless of whether an analog or digital in is used, thus rendering an external DAC a waste of money. I probably won't be looking at DAC's until I finally make the move to separates (amp & analog pre) in a few months.


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## edstrelow

I have 2 of the early units between transport players and DAC's and find they made a notable improvement. These don't upsample. I paid $100.00 each but the the connecting cables need to be considered but I got some of the bargain silver cables being sold a while back for $39.00/pair.

 Both of the transports are older but fairly high end for their time, a Denon DCD 3000 and a CEC 5100Z belt drive.

 The DACs are a Musical Fidelity X24K with XPSU and a later A324. I remember that when Stereophile reviewed the latter DAC they liked it but noted that a jitter reducer still helped. 

 I believe these units not only relock the signal but also raise the signal level so its not entirely clear what is doing what.


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## Golden Monkey

Thanks Ed. My understanding is that the lower end the transport, the more difference they make. Yeah, they boost the voltage on output to deliver a stronger signal to the DAC, and the newer ones (the Classic does not upsample, and outputs a 44.1khz signal) have user switchable upsampling via a jumper setting inside.

 Guess I'll be the guinea pig for this, and will be getting one in about a month, new. Nobody in the forums here or on Audiogon are selling the model I want. I'll be sure t oreport back on my findings guys, don't worry.


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## skullguise

Just found this thread, I'll post my limited experience. I bought a used DIP Classic on Audiogon a while back.

 I had a Panasonic DVD player and Panny XR-25 digital receiver. I had heard all the good things about a direct digital feed into the Panny amps sounding very good.

 Well, it WAS good, but not the most musical thing. I thought the highs were etched and a bit dry, the mids lacked fullness, and the bass was just OK.

 I decided to try the DIP (cost me a little over $100 IIRC), and it DID make a nicer difference. Mostly in the mids on up, it focused and smoothed some things out. Still not the best sound, but a major over-achiever at the price. I lived with this combo for ~6 months, before upgrading again (this was a downgrade, when my son was younger and I didn't have much time to listen).

 I'd suggest keeping an eye on Audiogon for used. I think they are worth the price, and you'd be able to resell at minimal loss most likely if they didn't work out as you wanted.


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## Golden Monkey

Well, I took the plunge and ordered the DIP Combo (with built-in switchable upsampling) from Audio Advisor. Should be here by Tuesday next week. ALso trying out some new Tributaries Silver Series cables for coax. Impressions to come, stay tuned.


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## kontai69

Several years ago, I tried the DIP Classic in between a Sony DVD player and my Ack Dack D/A converter. I thought it made the sound worse. I can't remember exactly what I did not like about it though.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It has been too long ago.

 I ordered directly from Monarchy and do remember that a very nice lady handled the phone calls and she seemed genuinely disappointed that I did not like the unit. She called me back offering a free upgrade to the upsampling version. I declined since my DAC is non oversampling and won't work with it.


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## Golden Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kontai69* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Several years ago, I tried the DIP Classic in between a Sony DVD player and my Ack Dack D/A converter. I thought it made the sound worse. I can't remember exactly what I did not like about it though.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It has been too long ago.

 I ordered directly from Monarchy and do remember that a very nice lady handled the phone calls and she seemed genuinely disappointed that I did not like the unit. She called me back offering a free upgrade to the upsampling version. I declined since my DAC is non oversampling and won't work with it._

 

Yeah, Ori told me much the same thing - that a poorly implemented/designed upsampler or reclock job can actually degrade the SQ. I have really wanted to try the DIP out for a while now, and it has a 30 day guarantee, so if I don't like it, no loss (shipping was free anyway, so NO loss, lol). Since you can choose upsampling or not on this model via internal jumpers, if I don't like the up-version, I'll try the regular 16 bit, 44.1khz setting and compare. If I'm not happy with either, back it goes. The thing has gotten overwhelmingly positive reviews over the years, so I have hopes for it to perfom well. Come Tuesday we'll see...


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## Golden Monkey

Well, it came, I saw, and it's kicking ass. I have to say, I was fairly skeptical about this thing, but wanted to satisfy my curiosity anyway. I'd read a lot about it, and the usual hyperbolic statements that are used about a lot of tweaks also applied here - "massive upgrade", "amazing improvements", "must have", etc. I wasn't really worried about the effects of jitter in my system, but as the DIP also reclocks the signal with precision Fox clocks, upsamples, offers ground isolation, and boosts the signal fed to the DAC, it sounded like it was worth a shot...I mean, SOMETHING positive should come out of it, right?

 I listened to a few tracks to get my head in the game, swapped in my new digital cable, and listened again for a bit. The Tributaries cable does a great job - more bass impact, clean highs, slightly more low level details, much better shielding and RCA connectors. Considering I got these retail $330 cables for $30, I'm very pleased 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Next step was to drop in the DIP. A little sticker on the back told me it was set to 96khz, but the paperwork says the default setting is 44.1khz. Ok, opened it yp and verified the jumpers were set at 96. Spent some time admiring the soldering and huge caps. The layout and build quality is very clean and tidy. The only reason the case is so big is because of the power supply and caps, but it pairs perfectly with my OMZ on top of my cd player. Anyway, connected it up (coax out on cdp > DIP > DAC) with the other Trib cable, and used my last Parasound power cable I'd been saving for just this day. The Belden cable it came with is better than most power cables included with components, but the big Parasounds just look and feel so beefy...anyway...there's no power switch, just a "lock" led on the front, and jacks for coax, optical, xlr, and a little selector switch on the back. Powered on, it does nothing until the source is on, then the lock lights, and that's it. 

 At first, it didn't seem like it's doing anything. I A/B'd for a while, but wasn't expecting anything "dramatic", "extraordinary", or "must have(!)" until it had at least a couple of hours of burn-in. Let it rock some Eminem for a few hours, and came back. Popped the 650's on, and...wow...

 Hate to leave a cliffhanger, but I gotta do some stuff around the house for a bit. It's garbage night. More impressions to come...


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## infinitesymphony

So there's no 44.1 kHz mode? Everything must be upsampled? If so, then I would expect it to at least sound different. 44.1 kHz -> 48 kHz is not a lossless operation.


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## Golden Monkey

It has two modes, selectable via the internal jumpers - either 44.1 or 96khz....I had a typo above, where I said 48 or 96, which I edited (but then again, the literature is kinda misleading). I'll try it in both modes, and post more on the differences later.

 As for impressions at six hours of burn in - this thing seems to be the real deal. The differences are subtle (less than say, a different DAC would be), yet when you listen "into" the music, it's really easy to pick out what it's done to the sound. First off, there's much more low level detail and dynamics. Things have sharpened up considerably all around - it's almost like looking out of the same window every day, and one day you looked out and realized the window has been cleaned. There's a sharpening of transients and imaging...instrumentation seems more focused, soundstage is wider and deeper. Aside from the focus of instruments, spaces between them seems more defined, giving an airier feel to music, especially live recordings.

 Most strikingly, vocals seem to have taken on a much more realistic or natural presence. There's a real "heft" to them now, male and female. It's not a coloration of the sound, just a more accurate and vivid presentation to them. The "presence" factor goes beyond just the vox though...everything feels more immediate and realistic. It's not quite like the difference between say, a Grado vs. Senn presentation (up front vs. laid back)...the phones still feel the same, and the volume level is the same, but there's just more "there" there. Bass isn't hitting harder, it's just more solid. Highs are clean and shimmering.

 I finally feel like my DAC is living up to it's potential...it's the GIGO rule in effect - "Garbage In, Garbage Out", not that it was garbage before. I just mean that the OMZ is being fed a REALLY accurate and strong signal (the output is about 5V, fed into the DAC), and it's able to really shine now. It doesn't fundamentally sound "different"...it's still extremely natural and spacious, detailed and clean without digital harshness, just like it always was, it's just kicked up a notch, to borrow a phrase.

 EDIT: Note that at this point, these differences are subtle...I'm not trying to say that every change is DRAMATIC(!), but they are readily apparent if you are listening for them. That's not to say it's "expectation in action", and I'm hearing what I want to hear. I really AM looking for a reason to think that the benefits and performance are outstripped by the cost, but if there's this much of an improvement so far, I can't wait to hear it when I get home today (that'll be about 24 hours constant burn-in).

 I'll let it burn in fully, and post more later, with impressions of both settings, and also take it out of the chain and compare as well. Right now though, it's a worthy $279 expense. I think I'm almost there...just a headphone cable away from nirvana. That is, until I build a balanced system...

 EDIT: Note...the cans I used are the HD650's this time around. I'm not a believer in the notion of the "Senn veil", I think they just have a "house sound"...but...I don't know how...it seems to have lifted somewhat. The highs seem less rolled off and muted. It's probably due to the signal boosting again. They sound so rich and awesome right now...*sigh*


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## feverfive

Huh... I'm wondering what setting should be used if the DAC it's feeding is of the upsampling variety. I currently have a Cullen modded PS Audio Digital Link III which upsamples at a selectable 96kHz or 192kHz--no ability to not upsample. Would it even make a difference? I'm still looking at the DIP to run between my Apple TV & DAC.


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## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh... I'm wondering what setting should be used if the DAC it's feeding is of the upsampling variety. I currently have a Cullen modded PS Audio Digital Link III which upsamples at a selectable 96kHz or 192kHz--no ability to not upsample. Would it even make a difference? I'm still looking at the DIP to run between my Apple TV & DAC._

 

My experience with the same unit in the past was that it sounded clearly better at 96 KHz, which makes you wonder.
 I'd leave it on 96 and use the DIP to output 44.1 and then 96 and see which is better. I don't think you can predict the result...


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## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh... I'm wondering what setting should be used if the DAC it's feeding is of the upsampling variety. I currently have a Cullen modded PS Audio Digital Link III which upsamples at a selectable 96kHz or 192kHz--no ability to not upsample. Would it even make a difference? I'm still looking at the DIP to run between my Apple TV & DAC._

 

If you own the PS DLIII, spend the money for DIP instead on DLIII mods by Rick Cullen. He's the designer of DLIII for PS Audio, and his mods include major jitter reductions and upsampler improvements. 

 My past experiences with "jitter reduction" boxes have always led to me preferring the simpler set up. The added complexities, extra digital cabling, extra connectors (actually makes a difference in digital), extra power supply, extra power cord, more stuff to control vibrations on, not to mention the cost involved, tend to open you up for way more opportunities to mess something up more than the supposed "benefit."

 In the case of Monarchy, I suspect the digital transformer-coupling and jacking up the digital output voltage are what's really responsible for the perceived difference, not the front man, jitter reduction.


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## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you own the PS DLIII, spend the money for DIP instead on DLIII mods by Rick Cullen. He's the designer of DLIII for PS Audio, and his mods include major jitter reductions and upsampler improvements. 

 My past experiences with "jitter reduction" boxes have always led to me preferring the simpler set up. The added complexities, extra digital cabling, extra connectors (actually makes a difference in digital), extra power supply, extra power cord, more stuff to control vibrations on, not to mention the cost involved, tend to open you up for way more opportunities to mess something up more than the supposed "benefit."

 In the case of Monarchy, I suspect the digital transformer-coupling and jacking up the digital output voltage are what's really responsible for the perceived difference, not the front man, jitter reduction._

 

That makes sense to me.... I have the Stage 3 Cullen mod on my DL III, and it already sounds terrific to these ears. Guess I'm just as "sick" as many here and am continually looking for ways to improve what I've got.


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## Golden Monkey

What does the DL III with the Cullen mods usually go for? What exactly do the Cullen mods consist of? Thx.


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## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does the DL III with the Cullen mods usually go for? What exactly do the Cullen mods consist of? Thx._

 

Take a look---> DLIII Stage III(adds WBT NextGen and clock mod) (DL3-STAGE III) - PS Audio DAC, GCHA, GCPH modifications - Cullen Circuits

 I bought my unit brand new directly from Cullen Circuits after speaking w/ & emailing Rick Cullen. He's a great guy... The mod does include a clock replacement, fwiw. Like I said above, sound quality is awesome--dead quiet, dynamics, terrific bass, no harshness whatsoever IME. It's been well worth the purchase price to me.


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## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does the DL III with the Cullen mods usually go for? What exactly do the Cullen mods consist of? Thx._

 

There are various levels of mods, and you can see them here:
PS Audio DAC, GCHA, GCPH modifications - Cullen Circuits
 PS Audio website also has a forum dedicated to Cullen mods.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That makes sense to me.... I have the Stage 3 Cullen mod on my DL III, and it already sounds terrific to these ears. Guess I'm just as "sick" as many here and am continually looking for ways to improve what I've got._

 

Man, you have the Stage 3 DLIII and still not satisfied? Actually, when I had the stock DLIII, the reason I didn't get Cullen mods was due to DLIII's upsampler, which was not defeatable. I hate upsampling.

 Anyway, I did discuss with Rick Cullen, and at the time anyway, he was willing to work out a custom mod, removing the upsampler and doing a different clock mod...


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## Golden Monkey

Wow, those are pretty friggin' pricey...nice mods on an already nice unit though.

 Listening update: I just made it through the entire Jesus and Mary Chain album "Psychocandy"...if you're familiar with this album, it's very hard on the ears...lots of feedback and very little bass - almost the entire thing is a screechy, trebley nightmare, lol. Well, it was one of the few times it didn't give me a headache. I've heard this album a million times, but it never sounded this good - very airy and bright, but none of the shrillness. The feedback on the guitars was very "musical", and the persistant reverb on the vocals came across as very spacious...in fact, it was a big improvement overall to the soundstage. Everything sounded like it was meant to sound (as far as I'm concerned) - it wasn't like all the frequencies were fighting with each other, and losing...

 Listening to Fluke's "Risotto" now, and this album is techno keyboardy dancey stuff. Lots of samples and analog sounds. There's better definition than I've heard before. Vocals are less lost in the mix and very clear despite lots of mid-bass and midrange noise. All of the different layers of samples and keys seem to be more distinct than in the past. I'm hearing very faint details that I never knew were there before...little shimmery notes in the background, and bass that before just sounded like rumbling has a cleanness to it. Being that this is all electronic music, it doesn't have that "natural" feel to it, but it does sound better than before...


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## wavoman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I took the plunge and ordered the DIP Combo (with built-in switchable upsampling) from Audio Advisor_

 

Thanks again this is a great find. Great price for a box that does both. Just ordered mine. It solves three problems for me (have to get 2 more after I test it):

 1. 24/88.2 ==> 24/96 conversion.

 2. Active (and therefore I assume lossless) S/PDIF RCA ==> AES/EBU XLR conversion.

 3. Making an old high-jittter CD transport useful again with a DAC (whether I up-sample or not).

 Neat.


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## Golden Monkey

Update on this...I spent a few hours last night listening to music, and I'm really impressed with the DIP. After listening to music in the car on the way home, I sat down and rolled through a bunch of CDs. Talk about "night and day"...

 Some highlights (HD650's w/ DIP in 96k output) - 

 Patti Smith - Horses: This is the remastered version, and it sounded amazing. On the track "Land", there's several vocal tracks at once, and they fade in and out. Some are extremely faint and distant, but I was able to understand some of what she was saying (they are more "talky" than "singy", doing that "poet" thing she does so well, lol). I'd heard them before of course, but the low level detail was so distinct and clean. My CDP has a "pure direct" mode, which basically just turns off the display, and for the first time I actually noticed a difference with the display off. It doesn't make any difference in more conventional recordings because they are much "louder", but using this mode lowers the noise floor, allowing the micro-details to come out much clearer. Prior to using the DIP, I was never able to notice ANY difference using the pure direct setting.

 David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust (25th Aniv. Remastered Ed.). Wow. "Five Years", the first track, starts with a fade-in of bass lines and Bowie on the piano. It emerged from a dead silent black background, and sounded extremely natural, lush, and immediate. There's some natural and artificial reverb on his vocals, and it was esay to tell the difference. I'd never even noticed the studio reverb before.

 Scorpions - Love at First Sting: Again, reverb I'd never heard before...Klaus Meine's vox really stood out, and had a "huge" sound to them. Instrument separation and distinct placement like never before. The cymbals and different guitars all had perfect placement and coherency, even during the really rockin' moments. I'd never heard the tape hiss present in "Still Loving You" as much as I had this time. Yes, resolution is very high, and flaws in recordings are sometimes ruthlessly exposed.

 Dire Straits - S/T: An already great recording made better through remastering. The whole album has a very intimate feel, very up close and personal. On "Water of Love" at the beginning there is a little percussion-y bit (don't know what you call them, but it's two hardwood sticks hit together) and delicate guitar. The mic picks up Knopfler (I'm guessing) softly tapping his foot. I'd heard it before, but it was amazingly detailed - it wasn't just a "tap tap tap", you could count the time by it, more like "TAP tap tap...TAP tap tap...". Again, instrument placement and soundstage imaging was so vivid I felt like I could mesure the distance between the musicians.

 Kasabian - S/T: Very different recording from the Dire Straits one...very "processed" and done with little live instumentation. Still, well put together. I heard details in the music's more layered parts that I never was able to pick out before. This one put me in a coma actually...I was listening and got into that weird half-awake-half-asleep trance state, which made it hard to listen critically, lol.

 Flobots - Fight With Tools: Really hooked on this album lately. Aside from the radio-friendly "Handlebars", there's a lot of really good stuff. They are sort of alterna-rap, but not in that lame boring "whitey" style. For one, they actually PLAY instruments, and even have a classical violinist and trumpet player. Listening to this album gave the impression of a live performance...the violin has such a warm sound to it, and even over the tight drumming and effects, it was still possible to "feel" the bow across the strings.

 Pretty much the strengths of the DIP are instrument separation, micro-detail, vivid and detailed nuance, and amazing soundstage. It's burned in a bit more now (hasn't been off since I plugged it in), and when it's in the system, there's no denying it's impact on the sound. I switched back and forth between CDP > DIP > DAC > amp and running line out from the CDP (bypassing the DIP and DAC) to my preamp to headphone amp, and there's so much MORE going on through the digital chain. Details, transients, impact, presence...all in spades. The OMZ itself is a great peice of gear, but with the Monarchy feeding it, everything has come to life.

 Wavoman, do you have any impressions of yours yet?


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## realmassy

Old thread bump!
 Any more opinions or experience with this little box?
 I'm thinking of the DIP combo to use between my TEAC media player (which has a poor optical output) and the Audio-GD Ref.5
 Any alternative to the DIP? What about the Audio-GD Ref.3?
 Thanks


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## mrarroyo

I recently purchased the DIP/Upsampler Combo which is a one box which contains both the DIP Classic and the DIP Upsampler. I should receive it in the next week or so and it will be fed by my computer using an optical cable from a Chaintech AV710 and from a Meridian 506.20 using a coaxial cable. The output from the DIP/Upsampler Combo will feed a Monarchy NM24 DAC via a coaxial cable. More to come after it has been in my system for a few weeks.


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## realmassy

Look forward to hear your impressions Miguel!
 I'll soon get the new Audio-GD Ref.5, but I'm under the impression my transport is not at the same level and could be a bottleneck.
 One nice alternative to the DIP combo could be the Empirical Audio Pace Car, but it's very expensive.


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## Golden Monkey

Massi, did you ever get one of these?  Just curious if you did, and what your impressions were...


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## realmassy

Not yet, but It's still on my radar, especially now that I'm using a Sonos zone player as transport and the Valab SPDIF input is not as good as the USB.
  Your impressions seem to match other people's, with a clear and audible benefit. 
   
  I'd be happy with a used one, so if you'll ever decide do sell it send me a PM


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## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





realmassy said:


> Not yet, but It's still on my radar, especially now that I'm using a Sonos zone player as transport and the Valab SPDIF input is not as good as the USB.
> Your impressions seem to match other people's, with a clear and audible benefit.
> 
> I'd be happy with a used one, so if you'll ever decide do sell it send me a PM


 

     You know, I had totally forgotten about this thread, lol.  It took me reading this again to remember what I liked about it, and what impressions I had, because it's been in the chain for so long.  I'm going to play around and A/B without in in the system to see if what I said still rings true.  And I'll keep you in mind if I ever do decide to sell, lol...


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## smoothlondoner

All sounded good,
  I'm looking to buy one of these also and think i'll take a chance.
  I'm going to use it from a pc based system using the spdif coax fro an Asus Xonars Essence ST sound card.
  This also is powered buy an independent molex connector inside the pc.
  So i am going to build a new clean offboard power supply to it also.
  I've got in to headfi quite a bit this year and have just got some beyerdynamic T1 Headphones......


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## arjuna93

Is it worth as a Toslink to AES converter?


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