# FiiO E17 "ALPEN" - First Impression + Final Thought



## ClieOS

*[First Impression]*
  This is only my first impression of the E17 'ALPEN'. Unfortunately, the engineering sample I received was damaged internally during the shipping. The AUX-in, which is what turns E17 into a pure amp, is not functioning properly. FiiO had checked the sample before sending it out to me but the prolonged / delayed (and possibly some knocking around) shipping due to the holidays somehow caused some malfunction on the AUX-in and I can only use it as an DAC amp. So FiiO is sending me a new sample, (which will be the final production version) and I'll have to send the defected unit back to them for diagnosis. So basically, until I receive the replacement I won't be able to finish up the review. But luckily I was able to do a quick listening and A/Bing to E10 (as other functions beside AUX-in are all intact) before packing it up so this will only be a very brief impression.
   
*Sonic Impression*
  To make it short and sweet, I'll say E17 shares a large portion of its sound with E10, both on headphone-out as well as line-out. It is largely neutral but slightly on the warm side. It shouldn't be too surprising as the USB receiver (Tenor TE7022) and DAC chip (WM8740) are the same between the two. I have however detected a small difference between the amp section. Mainly that E17 sounds more airy and better layered compared to E10, which gives it a slightly better clarity. While difference isn't anything night and day, it is still an improvement, especially on how E17 handles soundstage. I also tried the Optical-in with my Sony Discman (which has an optical-out) and the improvement (from the Discman's headphone-out) is just great. Far better than pairing the same Discman with FiiO D3 + 3MOVE as D3 is probably the limiting factor there.
   
  Since I can't use the AUX-in, I can't compare the amp section alone with other amps so I'll have to wait for the replacement. Putting the little issue with AUX-in aside, I am really quite happy with E17 in general. The multitude of features built into the amp are just phenomenal, considered that this is going to be priced less than $200.
   
  A few news update for you guys - the production run of E17 has began and FiiO has managed to push up the release schedule. So the shipping date will be late January instead of February, though you will most likely see it hitting the market by early February if you include the shipping time from FiiO to distributor.
   





  All the basic accessories that comes with E17,which is pretty much the same as what you will receive on other FiiO amps. There are also an optical and coax adapter included (not show in picture)
   
   
   
*[Final Thought]*
   
  FiiO has done it again with another ultra-budget all-in-one AMP+DAC called the E17 – or as FiiO like to refer to its official name, the Alpen. Never did a portable headphone amp + DAC with these many features were made in the sub-$200 market. Then again, it is not the first time FiiO has broken the record in offering class-beating bang for the buck product.
   
   
*Spec*
  Input: USB, AUX, SPDIF (Coax + Optical)
  USB Support (max): 24bit / 96kHz
  SPDIF Support (max): 24bit  / 192kHz
  Channels balance: +/-10dB Left/Right
  Gain selection: 0dB, 6dB, 12dB (12dB gain not available to USB-in)
  EQ: Treble - +/-10dB (14.6kHz); Bass - +/-10dB (20Hz); in 2dB step
  Line-out: Bypassable to pre-out.
 Output Power: 227mW (16Ω); 215mW (32Ω); 35mW (300Ω)
 Headphone Impedance Range: 16 Ω ~ 300 Ω
 SNR: ≥109dB (A weighted) on AUX-in; ≥104dB (A weighted) on USB-in
 Distortion: <0.001% (10mW)on AUX-in; <0.007% (10mW) on USB-in
 Frequency Range: 10Hz ~ 100kHz (amp); 10Hz ~ 20kHz (DAC)
 Power Supply: Internal 1500mAH rechargeable Li-ion battery
  Battery life: 15 hours
 Recharging: USB 5V
 Size: 96mm x 55mm x 15.2mm
 Weight: 112g
   
*Build Quality and Accessories*
  Build Quality is still up to the usual FiiO’s high standard. There are complaints over the web about build quality of recent FiiO’s products, especially on the E10’s problematic headphone jack. It is actually the same jack used on E7, which has established pretty good track record in the past. From my communication with FiiO, the issue has less to do with the increase of failure rate (which is actually about the same as the past as I was told) but more to do with the high number of production. For example, even with 1% of failure rate in the wild, they will still see 50 ‘lemon’ in a production run of 5000 units. But in the past, they would only need to deal with 5 bad units out of a production run of 500 units for the same failure rate. As the company expends so rapidly, they have taken note that they are dealing with much more lemon units than the past.  It is something they have to deal with and as I was told, they are going to tighten up production and QC though it is impossible to be 100% failure-proofs. As far as Alpen goes, it has by far the most solid design and build of all FiiO’s products to date.
   
  Accessories wise,  Alpen comes with two rubber bands (to hold the amp and DAP together), an USB cable, a short 3.5mm interconnecting cable, a simple user menu, a coax adapter, a 3.5mm optical adapter and a soft pouch. You will need to supply your own toslink or coax cable if you want to use Alpen with a SPDIF source, but they are generally cheap and fairly easily to find. To get the line-out signal from Alpen, you will also need to get the FiiO L7 dock connector (or dock Alpen to E9, if you have one).
   




  The Power / Exit button lights up in blue when turn on, in red when charged and in a gorgeous purple when turn on and charged at the same time. The Input button will change between USB-in, AUX-in, Optical-in and Coax-in.
   
   




  The docking is the same as E7 so E17 will dock on E9 with any problem.
   
   




  The line-out bypass switch. You can switch between line-out (fixed output, not EQ, etc) to Preamp-out (volume affected, EQ enable) at you own wish, in case you want to us E17's EQ on E9.
   
   




  SPDIF-in comes in pink 3.5mm socket. It will take both optical and coax in one socket.
   
   
*Navigation*
  If you have used E7 before, you will feel right at home with Alpen. All the buttons have now being put on the front plate instead on the side, making a much sharper looking design though one hand’s navigation can be a little awkward at time. Nothing is too tricky however.  Beside the on/off button (which double as exit for menu), menu and volume up/down, two more buttons are added. The input button will switch the Alpen between 4 input modes: USB, AUX, COX (Coax) and OPT (optical). The hold button not only lock down the buttons, but also shut down the OLED screen so it won’t burn-out if you use it for a long period of time (i.e. as your main PC’s USB DAC). There is also a ‘LO Bypass’ switch on the right side. In the lower position (close to the words), Alpen will be in its default mode to output line level signal (fixed level, no EQ) when docked (to E9 or L7). In the upper position, Alpen will output pre-amp signal instead. In pre-amp mode, volume control and EQ will affect the output when docked.  If you don’t have any particular reason, I’ll suggest you leave the LO Bypass to the default line-out mode. If you do want the EQ to stay on the LO (LO Bypass enable), I will suggest you set Alpen to zero gain and max out on the volume (6dB gain is fine as well).  Use what even amp you are going to pair with Alpen to control volume and gain.
   
*Battery life*
  FiiO claims the E17 can run for up to 15 hours in a single charge. Form my own battery test (AUX in, volume 26/60, fed by E10’s line-out), it does live up to spec and ran for around 15 hours.
   
  Like E7, there is a setting to turn off the USB charging on Alpen if you are running it off your laptop without an AC socket in sight. This will stop Alpen from draining the battery of your laptop. For those who intend to use Alpen mostly as a desktop USB DAC and not a portable - I do recommend you to drain the battery occasional (once or twice per month) in order to prolong the battery life.
   
  There is also a sleep function (much like E7) to automatically shut the amp down. You can set it from 10 up to 90 minutes (in 10 minutes interval).
   
*Hissing + EMI*
  I am happy to report that Alpen is the least hissing of all FiiO’s amp to date. Even with my most hiss-prone IEM, the Shure SE530, there is no hiss on zero gain. With 6dB gain, hiss is only (barely) audible once the volume reaches 55/60. Even at 60/60, it has much less hiss than E11 or E7 at low volume. With 12dB gain, hiss became noticeable pass 40/60. But in reality, it is almost impossible to use SE530 on 12dB gain on volume 40/60 as it will blow your eardrum out with typical source (i.e. iPod’s line-out) before you ever hear any hiss. Any headphone (presumably full sized) that needd the 12dB gain is likely not going to be sensitive enough to pick up any hiss anyway.
   
  EMI (electro-magnetic interference, a.k.a. cellphone’s interference) resistance is also excellent on Alpen. I tested Alpen next to my cellphone as well as connected (via 3.5mm interconnecting cable) and it has almost no audible noise when I am making/receiving call.
   
*Bit Depth and Sampling Rate*
  Limited by its USB receiver, Alpen only works up to 24bits / 96kHz in USB mode. For the optical and coax input, you will get the full 24bits / 192kHz via SPDIF. For commercial CD and iTune music, resolution shouldn’t be much of any concern since they are all in the good old 16bits / 44.1kHz format.  While it always seems to be better to get higher bit depth and sampling rate, any properly mastered album should show very little difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 (note: ‘properly mastered’ is the key words here). The issue that most 24/192 music tend to sound better has more to do with either better mastering or hardware based difference (filtering and such). The knowledge of bit depth and sampling rate go way beyond the scope of this review and I am of no master on the subject to really discuss them. The key is not to be too obsessed about them. There are benefit for higher bit depth and sampling rate, but they are not miracle cure and don’t make music better by themselves.  For most practical purpose, 24/96 is already well beyond what you need.
   




  The OLED screen is the same as E7. The hold switch will turn off the screen so you won't have to worry about screen burn-in anymore.
   
   




  Something you don't usually find on portable amp, a channels' balance setting. There is also treble and bass setting and they all perform really well. Bass boost is deep and clear, without any annoying boominess or bass bleed.
   
*SQ*
  The first obvious question is, ‘should I get this or the E10?’ There are recent discussion of E10’s headphone jack build quality as well as the 7ms (millisecond, that’s 7/1000th of one second) delay issue that seems to let a lot of user to conclude that FiiO is not worth buying. Though I don’t agree, I can understand the frustration of receiving a lemon. As far as I know (as told by FiiO), the failure rate of E10’s headphone jack isn’t higher than usual (the same jack has been used on E7). But because of the relatively high amount of production (over 10k units of E10 was sold in first 4 months), even a small percent of failure will ‘look’ big in number. If you don’t think any failure is acceptable, perhaps FiiO is indeed not your cup of tea. But then again, is there such a thing as failure proof? As for the 7ms delay on E10 (only at the beginning of music playback, not between track), it is caused by the phase issue between the USB receiver (TE7022) and DAC (WM8740) that is unavoidable by themselves. So does this affects Alpen, which has the same chips? No, it doesn’t. By putting an SPIDF transceiver between the USB receiver and DAC, the phase issue is solved. So why doesn’t FiiO use the same solution on E10? Basically it is down to cost of implementation. After all, Alpen is twice as expensive as E10. Plus, FiiO thought 7ms on the beginning of music playback will be too short to really affect listening. While it doesn’t seem to be the best solution, I personally never notice any delay myself. Regardless, this won’t be a problem for Alpen anyway. So let goes back to the original question – Alpen or E10? I still believe E10 makes a good desktop USB DAC for those with tight budget. The headphone jack issue will be fully addressed by using a new jack on the latest batch (and worth noting that I have no problem with the old jack), and the 7ms never really is much of an issue for most music playback (as most albums start with one to two seconds of silence, which is much longer than the 7ms of delay). It is up to you to decide how important these issues are. But if you are willing to spend twice as much (Alpen is estimated to be around or over $150), there is no doubt that Alpen is the better choice. Tonality, Alpen shares a large portion of E10’s sound, but offers better detail, layers and soundstage. Another advantage of Alpen is its power output, which is higher than E10. This is easily detected from Alpen’s bass performance, which is much deeper, punchier and more controlled than that of E10’s.
   
  So how does Alpen, as an amp, compared to FiiO previous flagship, the E11? First, those who find E11 to be dark’ish can rejoice as Alpen is, by definition, a bit bright and upfront. I never do find E11 to be particularly dark (at least not when compared to iBasso T4). It does have a wam’ish sound and a really tight and punchy bass that can overwhelm detail, so most take it as a sign of dark presentation. Personally I more incline to think it is a sign of good power and control. Alpen does have really good power and control as well (just not as much in 0dB and 6dB gain setting), but the overall presentation is more forwarded. E11 offers better texture (especially on low and lower mid) and layers (good in depth but narrower in width), while Alpen offers crispier top and better openness in width. While I think the actual difference in SQ is very subtle, I do prefer E11 by just a very small margin. Same can be said to iBasso T3D (which I rate to be the same level as E11) as well. I prefer it just a little over Alpen because it handles soundstage better, even though it never quite as powerful as E11 or Alpen.  However, if I have to put different amps in categories based on SQ, these three will still be in the same group as this is how close I think Alpen is to E11 and T3D. That being said, I think it is obvious to state that Alpen is much better sounding then E6 and E7. Even the ‘E7 killer’ from iBasso, the D-zero, isn’t much of a direct competition for Alpen except for size. I have once commented that D-zero’s biggest selling point is its USB DAC section rather than its amp section. In the case of Alpen however, D-zero is clearly beaten on both ends. In fact, by A/Bing both, I reach the conclusion that Alpen, as an amp, is what D-zero would have grown up to be, especially consider they both are a little bright on their own except Alpen has transparency that is not found on D-zero. As for the DAC section, D-zero is simply limited by its USB receiver in both performance and bitrate.
   
  Two other amps I own and in Apen’s price range are the Nwavguys’ O2 ($150, built by JDS Labs) and iBasso T5 ($180). Both are at least a class better, but they are not really fair comparison to Alpen as both are strictly amp only while Alpen is multi-input amp+DAC. The fairer comparison will be Alpen vs. digiZoid ZO2.3 ($99). As purely an amp, Alpen is very much better than ZO2.3 as it has better transparency and much higher output. But what ZO2.3 offers is a tiny package and a lot of fun with its ‘SmartVektor’ bass EQ system. While it might not be as feature-packed as Alpen, in some cases, especially with IEM on an ultra-portable rig, ZO2.3 can work out better. As a headphone amp in its traditional sense, I really think Alpen is the better choice. But on the other hand, I do think ZO2.3 is an ‘out-of-the-box’ product that deserves its own space just because it is so fun to play around.  I guess it all downs to what kind of features you are looking for as a user.
   
  Last but not least, I think most will want to know how good a combo they will be when Alpen is docked on E9? Will it be better to use Alpen alone? For those of you who know your E9, you should know there are output resistors on the headphone jack that could color the sound of low impedance headphone (10ohm on 1/4' jack and 33ohm on 1/8' jack). But they are not there to add coloration. Instead, they are required by spec for stabilizing the opamp output. This is why E9, regardless of pairing with E7 or Alpen, is really best to drive high impedance headphone when accuracy is demanded. This is not to say low impedance headphone won’t sound good at all. It is just won’t be ideal pairing.
   
  Now let’s talk about the difference between the amp sections first: Tested with high impedance IEM (ER4S and RE262, so coloration isn’t a problem here), Alpen’s internal amp has wider soundstage and crispier sparkles. The sonic energy is mainly focus on the upper vocal and up. E9 on the other hand has (a lot) more power. It has excellent control over the bass note which is deep and well bodied while remains tight. It also resolves lower vocal better. The way I like to see them  - Alpen’s internal amp is like a female punk rocker: aggressive, lively, and demands attention. E9 (paired with Alpen) is more like a tenor: powerful, warm and full of authority. I can't really say one is (very obviously) technically better than the other. They are certain things they are better than the other, but not in everything.  So my recommendation falls back to what they do best in the practical world - if you are using anything below 150ohm, E17 alone is enough. If you are using anything beyond 300ohm, Alpen+E9 make better sense. For those in between, I think both can work out well (in different way) depends how you like to take your music. But for most casual user, I think Alpen alone should suffice.
   




  Size and weight wise, E17 and E7 are quite similar.
   
   




   
   
   




  E17 will dock onto E9 without any problem. Of course, it also sound much better than E7 as an USB DAC.
   
   




  Size comparison. Upper row: iBasso T5, D-zero. Mid row: E7, E17, HeadRoom Total BiHead. Bottom row: E11, E6.
   
   




  24/96 support can be set in PC. With Windows, you need to active 24/96 support by selecting it in the Playback device properties.
   
*EQ*
  By using a digital volume controller chip of its own, Alpen has some of the most versatile EQ system in the portable amp world. It has three level gain control (though 12dB gain is disable in USB mode), pan (channels’ balance) control, bass EQ and treble EQ.
   







  Bass EQ, only showing +/- 2, 6, and 10.
   
   







  Treble EQ, only showing +/- 2, 6, and 10.
   
   







  Left and right pan.
   
   




  Two EQ curve to showcase the overall dynamic of the EQ system. Note that they are slightly different than the purely bass or treble EQ.
   
  Pan control gives you 5dB of left/right difference from the center. Bass and treble EQ are listed for a +/-10dB range (in 2dB interval), but in real life situation (tested with 16 ohm load) they are not quite as precious / exact.  Bass EQ range is overshot to around +/-13dB while treble is right about +/- 10.5dB. However, since these are EQ, it really doesn’t matter how precious the number need to be. The (positive) point is, you have a lot of room to play with – from mild (around +/- 2dB) to pretty extreme (around +/- 10dB)
   
*Ending*
  It won’t be the best sounding amp you can buy, nor is it going to be the prettiest - but like other products FiiO made, performance with a very reasonable price is what defines Alpen. As always, I am amazed by FiiO's ability to make a product that totally push the limit of its price bucket, whatever that is. If this much features don't make it one of the hottest portable amp+DAC in its price range, I honestly don't know what could. Solid gold casing, perhaps?


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## Pelotonjon

Looks like another winner from FiiO.


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## nsx280ps

Whats the MSRP on the e17?


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





nsx280ps said:


> Whats the MSRP on the e17?


 


 MSRP is about $150, which is not bad consider a iBasso D-zero (which has much less features) goes about $125 or so. However, FiiO usually let the dealer has the final say on what price they want to put on so you can probably expect it to be around $150~$175.


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## WaLaoEh

how does it compare with the e11?? which sounds better?? ( i don't know much about amps ,and have never used one.)
  Intending to get either E6/E11 or maybe the E17. xD


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





walaoeh said:


> how does it compare with the e11?? which sounds better?? ( i don't know much about amps ,and have never used one.)
> Intending to get either E6/E11 or maybe the E17. xD


 

 I haven't had the chance to compare the amp section of E17 to E11 yet, at least not till the replacement comes. But given its similarity (and better) to E10's amp section, I'll say it is at least on par, if not better than E11 - not quite has the bass punch, though overall more detail and better in clarity.


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## bowei006

Thank you for your impressions  I was loooking for a new amp and this seems to fit


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## WaLaoEh

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I haven't had the chance to compare the amp section of E17 to E11 yet, at least not till the replacement comes. But given its similarity (and better) to E10's amp section, I'll say it is at least on par, if not better than E11 - not quite has the bass punch, though overall more detail and better in clarity.


 


  ok thanks! and how is the soundstage? and which one would be better with the GR07? E11,E6 or E17???


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





walaoeh said:


> ok thanks! and how is the soundstage? and which one would be better with the GR07? E11,E6 or E17???


 

 Between E11, E6 and E17, I'll say E17 has the best soundstage.


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## cifani090

IMO the build quality doesn't look quite rounded off. Do you care to elaborate.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> IMO the build quality doesn't look quite rounded off. Do you care to elaborate.


 

 Really? to me it looks extremely solid.
  as in this solid. 
   

   
  credit to imgur for the original http://i.imgur.com/MjyyY.jpg


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## JamesFiiO

Maybe you can wait the photos by Headfonia, so far E17 is the best build quality in our lineup.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Maybe you can wait the photos by Headfonia, so far E17 is the best build quality in our lineup.


 


  That is what i was giong to say. I saw Mike's pictures. They look like a tank.


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## cifani090

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Maybe you can wait the photos by Headfonia, so far E17 is the best build quality in our lineup.


 

 Sorry if i offended you, it was in picture 6 that i though it looked a little "un-finished" but now that i look back it was the dust. It's not the the reviewers fault, it is what it is.


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> IMO the build quality doesn't look quite rounded off. Do you care to elaborate.


 
   
  Elaborate on what? It was an engineering sample I received so it is not built on a production line but rather by FiiO's engineer purely for the purpose of testing and early review, so it is very possible that might be weak soldering point somewhere that can't take the rock and tumble of the shipping. Plus, It was an unexpected long shipping for my package to arrive (if you have noticed, other reviewers received their sample before me) because of some paper work issue followed by the big X'mas.delay. Those who received their sample before me all seem to be fine. FiiO did told me all samples were tested before ship out so the only logical conclusion is that must be some rough handling happened during shipping that led to the fault. As I have mentioned, only the AUX-in isn't working properly while all other functions (USB-in, Opt-in and Coax-in) are fine. This time FiiO is sending me a unit from the production run so it will have the same build quality as their normal unit instead of the build quality of the engineering unit.
   
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> It's the the reviewers fault, it is what it is.


 
  ...and may be you shouldn't jump to the conclusion?


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## JamesFiiO

Take it easy, Maybe we can take a video of being run over by a car to test how solid E17 is .


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## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Take it easy, Maybe we can take a video of being run over by a car to test how solid E17 is .


 


  how's the screen. will the front break easily like the iphone? or is it not glass? if it drops on a corner and it is glass. won't it shatter?
   
  and official or non official word on battery life you can give us...like estimation? 15 hours is fine with me :/


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## ClieOS

Front screen (on top of the OLED) is plastic (polycarbonate?), so it won't shatter even if you drop it.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Front screen (on top of the OLED) is plastic (polycarbonate?), so it won't shatter even if you drop it.


 


 smart thank you. Ok now...who wants to volunteer to take a video of their E17 being run over by a tank when they get it? Lol
   
  Well i hope you receive your unit soon..or more reviews come out for this. I've been waiting for some definite reviews on the Aux in. Your impression on the optical in was also good as i will be using this Aux in when i am out. and i will be using the optical in with my macbook pro and desktop computer  
   
  So you are saying the optical in is really good right


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## ClieOS

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> So you are saying the optical in is really good right


 


 As good as the USB-in, at least with my Sony Discman it is.


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## JamesFiiO

Anyway, post a great photo of Mountain ALPEN,


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## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> As good as the USB-in, at least with my Sony Discman it is.


 

 thank you 
   


  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Anyway, post a great photo of Mountain ALPEN,


 
  great picture FiiO
   
   
   
  I kinda feel dumb. soo many questions were just answered on the FiiO main page..... and wow. a battery almost 50% larger.....with less than a quarter of the original use time....THAT IS BOSS.


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## kckc

Looks like another great product from FiiO.


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## cifani090

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Elaborate on what? It was an engineering sample I received so it is not built on a production line but rather by FiiO's engineer purely for the purpose of testing and early review, so it is very possible that might be weak soldering point somewhere that can't take the rock and tumble of the shipping. Plus, It was an unexpected long shipping for my package to arrive (if you have noticed, other reviewers received their sample before me) because of some paper work issue followed by the big X'mas.delay. Those who received their sample before me all seem to be fine. FiiO did told me all samples were tested before ship out so the only logical conclusion is that must be some rough handling happened during shipping that led to the fault. As I have mentioned, only the AUX-in isn't working properly while all other functions (USB-in, Opt-in and Coax-in) are fine. This time FiiO is sending me a unit from the production run so it will have the same build quality as their normal unit instead of the build quality of the engineering unit.
> 
> ...and may be you shouldn't jump to the conclusion?


 

 While ive done alot of reading ive just heard lots of poor quality issue's such on the E6. Not saying this is going to be affected by similar problems, just the first time i took a look it seemed a little off. It was 3:00 am when i was replying to your comment and i meant to say "it wasn't the reviews fault." Sometimes i type things that are suppose to come out nice, but forget a word and it changes it a whole 180 degrees.


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## Huxley

But will it blend?
  
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Take it easy, Maybe we can take a video of being run over by a car to test how solid E17 is .


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## bowei006

Quote: 





huxley said:


> But will it blend?


 


  i actually doubt it would. the plastic screen might get some scratches and the metal too. but with the weight and size of this thing being compact...i doubt it would. throwing it around that fast in a blender might actually crack the blenders plastic


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## PlasticChicken

Pretty sure a blendtec would destroy it. Like it would literally turn into dust.


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## kornel221

hi , i have one question, i use fiio  e9 connected to my sound card asus xonar d2 , i am thinking to get some  dac but i am not really sure if i will notice any improvement , for now i am thinking to get fiio e10 and use it as a dac conected to my e9 or will be better to wait for e17 or stay with the xonar?
   
  [size=small]thaks and sorry for my english!![/size]


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## bowei006

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> hi , i have one question, i use fiio  e9 connected to my sound card asus xonar d2 , i am thinking to get some  dac but i am not really sure if i will notice any improvement , for now i am thinking to get fiio e10 and use it as a dac conected to my e9 or will be better to wait for e17 or stay with the xonar?
> 
> [size=small]thaks and sorry for my english!![/size]


 

 just looking at the price of that bad boy i doubt you would notice a difference. but then again. im not a sound card guy.


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## kornel221

ok thanks for answer , so even if i buy e17 there will be no improvement?
   
  Xonar d2 cost me 120€


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## bowei006

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> ok thanks for answer , so even if i buy e17 there will be no improvement?
> 
> Xonar d2 cost me 120€


 


  hmmm. you would need to ask someone else. but there may or may not. i don't know what DAC they used in it. It doesn't look like their is a good amp in it...which is why you bought the E9. Hmm i don't know about the DAC inside. you could make a nother thread and ask. the Wolfson in the E17 is pretty good though :/


----------



## higgsbison

More talk about the sound please. At the end of the day its all i'm interested in. The Headstreamer has less features and looks average in comparison but if it sounds better i will be buying it without a second thought for this. So far from the impressions here and Headfonia it seems that you are paying double to get a lot more features than the E10 and very little actual improvement where it counts - SQ.


----------



## kornel221

i bought e9 becouse this sound card dont have headphone amp , my xonar includes this dac: Burr Brown PCM1796 Digital to Analog Converter 
   
   

   

   
   
  Sorry for this off-topic i will open a new thread to ask about it


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> More talk about the sound please. At the end of the day its all i'm interested in. The Headstreamer has less features and looks average in comparison but if it sounds better i will be buying it without a second thought for this. So far from the impressions here and Headfonia it seems that you are paying double to get a lot more features than the E10 and very little actual improvement where it counts - SQ.


 


  hmm that is pretty noteworthy to bring up. but unlike you. i need both the portable, and desktop features of the E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> i bought e9 becouse this sound card dont have headphone amp , my xonar includes this dac: Burr Brown PCM1796 Digital to Analog Converter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  ....i doubt you will hear much difference...espeically since you have a Burr Brown :/ i don't have much experience with them but Wolfson, Cirrus Logic, and Burr Brown are pretty top  notch companies.


----------



## kornel221

ok many thanks for your help then I'll stay with xonar


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> ok many thanks for your help then I'll stay with xonar


 


  You're welcome i guess. You could make a thread and ask but i doubt the difference would really be worth $150 let alone $80 for the E10


----------



## higgsbison

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hmm that is pretty noteworthy to bring up. but unlike you. i need both the portable, and desktop features of the E17.


 
   
  Without doubt, if you need the features it will be worthwhile.
  
  My concern though is by the time you add an E9 for the desktop system you will have spent around $250-300. Suddenly Fiio have a lot of competition in this price bracket where they didn't in the sub $100 range. From the description at Headfonia it seems that he preferred the sound in the E17 on its own better than the E17 + E9. So i'm a bit cautious to spend that sort of money for only a slight increase in SQ over the E10 when there is so much else on the market.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> Without doubt, if you need the features it will be worthwhile.
> 
> My concern though is by the time you add an E9 for the desktop system you will have spent around $250-300. Suddenly Fiio have a lot of competition in this price bracket where they didn't in the sub $100 range. From the description at Headfonia it seems that he preferred the sound in the E17 on its own better than the E17 + E9. So i'm a bit cautious to spend that sort of money for only a slight increase in SQ over the E10 when there is so much else on the market.


 


  you might be seeing the $250 to $300 as having a lot of competition. but let me remind you that you can't compare this $250-$300 setup to a desktop only setup of the same price. bc in that desktop setup. can you grab a crucial part of that setup, the DAC and 215mW @ 32 Ohms amp off of it. Use it with your pod, and then when you are console gaming, plut it in to get great sound. and also portably use it at a friends house?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> i bought e9 becouse this sound card dont have headphone amp , my xonar includes this dac: Burr Brown PCM1796 Digital to Analog Converter


 

 PCM1796 is a well regarded DAC but the more important part of the story is the implementation. Xonar, though I haven't tried it myself, is known to be a good performer of its price. If you have no intent to use E17 as a portable amp, then I'll suggest you stick to the Xonar.
   
  Regardless of how good any particular gear is, it is only going to be as good as how you use it. You should always consider the practicality of any gears first before worrying about its SQ. What is the point of having the best sounding gear if you are only going to listen to it for a few minutes a month? You will be better off with cheaper sounding gears that let you enjoy your music more fully and freely. What E17 + E9 offers is a complete solution that covers both portable and desktop. If you have no use of one of them, you should spend your money wisely on whatever solution that fit you best.


----------



## mrAdrian

ClieOS, how do you like the E17/9 combo?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> ClieOS, how do you like the E17/9 combo?


 

 Hmmm... It is really hard to say as this point as I didn't spend that much time on the combo. I was listening to them for basic testing at the time so I haven't had the chance to compare it to my other desktop amp yet.


----------



## mrAdrian

I'll wait patiently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 while listening
  
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Hmmm... It is really hard to say as this point as I didn't spend that much time on the combo. I was listening to them for basic testing at the time so I haven't had the chance to compare it to my other desktop amp yet.


----------



## TigreNegrito

ClieOS, thanks for the initial impressions on this thing.  Was looking forward to what you had to say over the holidays!  LOL @ fall to the floor break the floor.  Hopefully, barring any unforseen delays, this thing will be ready to order when I get back from vacation early Feb and I can perch it on the E9 that is waiting patiently in its box on my desk for its little friend!


----------



## fray92

Eh? No dual headphone-out like previous version, the E7?
  Seriously, FiiO... My GF will be really mad if we can't share music anymore


----------



## tubal

How is the quality on Fiio these days?
   
  I bought an e7 a month or so ago, and had to send it back because one side of it just quit working after a couple of days.  While trouble shooting, I tested just the line-in, and i couldn't get any sound unless I pushed the jack in with some force.  So there was two separate issues on my one unit.
   
  Plus some other reviews on amazon showed that they had to send theirs back too.  With this e17 being broken on arrival, i'm just getting a little leary.
   
  I was going to get another e7, now thinking about waiting for an e17, but a little worried.  I really liked the e7 when it worked, but I don't want to have to get 4 copies before I find one that will keep working.


----------



## ClieOS

Regarding FiiO's QC issue, I have explained it on another thread.

  Quote: 





clieos said:


> To FiiO's defense, it is not about quality control, but the scale of operation.
> 
> A typical portable amp maker in the forum, say RSA, Headamp and even iBasso, etc. probably make less than hundred per week (and likely per month). A typical amp maker sells around thousand of amps the whole year. For what I know (as told by their authorized dealer), some of them sell only a few hundred a year. Only the most popular of portable amp maker sell over thousand unit. Because they sell so little in number, they can have the time to take care of every thing. Guess how many amps FiiO typically makes a month? Answer: Over 5K easily, and over 15K in a busy month. Even with just 1% of failure rate passes over QC in the slowest month, there are still around 50 bad amps in the market - and that is half the production number of many other small headphone amp maker out there.
> 
> Now if you think about it - if FiiO received 50 complaint in Head-fi per months, everyone will think FiiO has bad QC. Yet if another amp maker who makes only 100 amp per month get only one complaint, everyone think he has really good build quality. The fact is, they are both in the same 1% failure rate. Even with the best of QC, you will still see a lot more defected FiiO than any other amp maker simply because they are the largest portable amp maker in the world right now, and probably produce more headphone amp than all the other headphone amps maker combined.


 

 It will be silly for FiiO to send defected unit to reviewer as it will only come back and bite them. But crap does happen and some time it is out of their control. They already tested the unit to full function before sending it to me but somehow something must have happened during the shipping that caused the AUX-in to malfunction. I have had almost every amp / DAC FiiO made so far and this is the first unit that has the problem. I am not worrying at this point, especially since FiiO is still very much committed to take care of its user when any problem arises.


----------



## N0sferatu

I'd like to know how much power can this amp/dac drive?  Is it capable of pushing something like the HD600 easily or is it going to be one of those you crank to full blast and barely get any volume out of it?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





n0sferatu said:


> I'd like to know how much power can this amp/dac drive?  Is it capable of pushing something like the HD600 easily or is it going to be one of those you crank to full blast and barely get any volume out of it?


 


 It should have more than enough volume for HD600 (E17 has a 12dB gain in AUX-in and 6dB gain for USB-in). Whether it will drive it well is beyond me. I don't have any hard to drive full size.


----------



## AxelCloris

Thanks for the first impressions ClieOS! This hasn't helped the wait any though


----------



## kingpage

Quote: 





n0sferatu said:


> I'd like to know how much power can this amp/dac drive?  Is it capable of pushing something like the HD600 easily or is it going to be one of those you crank to full blast and barely get any volume out of it?


 


  Educated guess - yes. E10 could drive HD600 to about 111dBSPL peak.


----------



## kazxenon

Looks really good, how is the amp section of the E17 compared to the iBasso T5?


----------



## EddieE

Quote: 





fray92 said:


> Eh? No dual headphone-out like previous version, the E7?
> Seriously, FiiO... My GF will be really mad if we can't share music anymore


 

  Because she's worth it...


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kazxenon said:


> Looks really good, how is the amp section of the E17 compared to the iBasso T5?


 


 From memory, I will say T5 sounds better than E17, but not night and day difference. I'll post a real comparison once I have the E17 replacement (which should be here by early next week).


----------



## jono454

Hmm would it be a better option to combine the e17 as a DAC along with my e9 OR get the [size=x-small]Audinst HUD-mx1 as a Dac with my e9. I would be using this setup for my AKG K702, SR60 and pro550.[/size]


----------



## kazxenon

Quote: 





clieos said:


> From memory, I will say T5 sounds better than E17, but not night and day difference. I'll post a real comparison once I have the E17 replacement (which should be here by early next week).


 

 Thanks! Thinking of getting E17 as a amp + DAC combo to replace the T5 which I may be passing over to someone else


----------



## emsijs

It does look really awesome, but the it's the buttons I'm worried. They don't look very easy to manipulate with big fingers.


----------



## Coop

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> you might be seeing the $250 to $300 as having a lot of competition. but let me remind you that you can't compare this $250-$300 setup to a desktop only setup of the same price. bc in that desktop setup. can you grab a crucial part of that setup, the DAC and 215mW @ 32 Ohms amp off of it. Use it with your pod, and then when you are console gaming, plut it in to get great sound. and also portably use it at a friends house?


 

 Not to mention that many people already have an E9...


----------



## Mdclol

Doesn't look like it has 2 headphone out ports  my girlfriend will miss the second one. As will I.


----------



## *podman*

Hi ClieOS, great review so far!  Do you have any initial comparisons against the D-Zero, or would you rather wait until your replacement unit arrives?
   
  I don't have any particular need for the screen, optical or co-ax inputs in the E17- I just want something small and portable to carry around with my MacBook & IEM's as I'm spending a lot of time away from home at the moment.  I don't really see myself as needing the aux-in and battery at the moment either, so I was initially looking at the E10, however I'd like something more portable, and I think the battery might be useful in the future.
   
  I tend to keep my stuff for a long time without upgrading (I'm on here and browsing because my 4-year old IEM's are failing and I'm looking for alternatives and customs!), so build quality and longevity is also of concern.
   
  I'm in the UK, where the FiiO prices tend to be slightly more favorable than iBasso, so I don't expect there'll be such a massive price difference between the two, however I would like to order quite soon- current availability of the D-zero does make it more tempting!
   
  Cheers!


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Hmm would it be a better option to combine the e17 as a DAC along with my e9 OR get the [size=x-small]Audinst HUD-mx1 as a Dac with my e9. I would be using this setup for my AKG K702, SR60 and pro550.[/size]


 

 Never listened to the Audinst before, can't help you there.
   


  Quote: 





kazxenon said:


> Thanks! Thinking of getting E17 as a amp + DAC combo to replace the T5 which I may be passing over to someone else


 

 You should be fairly happy there. I can't say teh amp only T5 is, as a whole, better than E17. The SQ certainly isn't that big of a difference. You should be quite happy with E17, though not an upgrade, it isn't much of a downgrade either.
   


  Quote: 





emsijs said:


> It does look really awesome, but the it's the buttons I'm worried. They don't look very easy to manipulate with big fingers.


 
  I have fairly big fingers too and I am fine. It is actually bigger than what it looks like in the picture.
  
   


  Quote: 





*podman* said:


> Hi ClieOS, great review so far!  Do you have any initial comparisons against the D-Zero, or would you rather wait until your replacement unit arrives?


 

 D-zero is pretty much not a competition here. E17 is a class better, if not more. It has better amp, and better DAC section. Beside size and battery life, I can't see D-zero having any other advantage.


----------



## *podman*

Brilliant, thank-you.
   
  It's pretty much the same price as the D-Zero too, still concerned about the long-term durability, but might have to treat myself!


----------



## jono454

Thanks for the informative information. I ended up pulling the trigger on the pre-order for $127 at mp4nation. I think it'd go nicely as a DAC along with my e9 and replace my PA2V2 portable amp. =)


----------



## *podman*

Did you go for the free headphones, or the FedEx shipping from MP4Nation?  The headphones have got some fairly decent reviews over on Amazon!


----------



## BlackbeardBen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> It should have more than enough volume for HD600 (E17 has a 12dB gain in AUX-in and 6dB gain for USB-in). Whether it will drive it well is beyond me. I don't have any hard to drive full size.


 


  How can it have gain over USB?  Do you mean over a reference voltage or something?  It's not like there's direct gain from the PCM signal to the output.  This is like saying a CD player has a certain level of gain (i.e. doesn't make sense) rather than giving the maximum output in V RMS and/or peak.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Thanks for the informative information. I ended up pulling the trigger on the pre-order for $127 at mp4nation. I think it'd go nicely as a DAC along with my e9 and replace my PA2V2 portable amp. =)


 
  You should find E17 a technically much better amp than PA2V2, though not quite as colored.
   


  Quote: 





blackbeardben said:


> How can it have gain over USB?  Do you mean over a reference voltage or something?  It's not like there's direct gain from the PCM signal to the output.  This is like saying a CD player has a certain level of gain (i.e. doesn't make sense) rather than giving the maximum output in V RMS and/or peak.


 
  You are over complicating things. "USB-in" is one of 4 modes in E17.
   
  The gain setting in E17's _amp section_ can be software controlled to either be 0dB, 6dB or 12dB. For "Aux-in" mode (where E17 operate as amp only), the maximum gain is 12dB (over the input signal, presumably line-level signal for most Head-fier). For "USB-in" mode (where E17 is USB DAC + amp, like a PC external soundcard), the maximum gain is limited to only 6dB - in case you are still confused, it means gain over the DAC's output (which is line-level by default, a.k.a. line-out).


----------



## skip129

Assuming the E17 allows the maximum output voltage swing for a full scale signal on the USB, that means it can generate >= 20mW into 300 ohms, and since the HD600 is in fact 300 ohms, that means >= 20mW into the HD600. The HD600 has an efficiency of 97dB @ 1mW. The gain at 10mW is 10*log(10mW/1mW) = 10*log(10) = 10dB.  97dB SPL + 10dB SPL =* 107DB SPL*. 
   
  The specs do say GREATER THAN or equal to 20mW, so maybe we'll get a bit more. 
   
  Again - this is assuming it allows the maximum output power/voltage when using it as a USB DAC/AMP, and IMHO it would be _very_ strange if it didn't allow this.
   
  So, my guess is: 107dB SPL into the HD600, or maybe a bit more.
   
  Greg.


----------



## skip129

OOPS!! The spec is 20mW, as I said, so the correct calculation is: 10*log(20mW/1mW) = 10*log(20) = 13dB gain.   97 + 13 = 110dB SPL
   
*110dB SPL plus into the HD600.*
   
  Greg.


----------



## WaLaoEh

If I bought this amp for portable use and desktop use, would it benefit my GR07s SQ wise?
  Would it increase the Soundstage, separation , clarity , bass.. would it just make it louder, or how would it affect how the GR07s sound?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





walaoeh said:


> If I bought this amp for portable use and desktop use, would it benefit my GR07s SQ wise?
> Would it increase the Soundstage, separation , clarity , bass.. would it just make it louder, or how would it affect how the GR07s sound?


 

 That depends a lot on what your current setup is, but GR07 in itself is not a hard to drive IEM.


----------



## BlackbeardBen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You should find E17 a technically much better amp than PA2V2, though not quite as colored.
> 
> You are over complicating things. "USB-in" is one of 4 modes in E17.
> 
> The gain setting in E17's _amp section_ can be software controlled to either be 0dB, 6dB or 12dB. For "Aux-in" mode (where E17 operate as amp only), the maximum gain is 12dB (over the input signal, presumably line-level signal for most Head-fier). For "USB-in" mode (where E17 is USB DAC + amp, like a PC external soundcard), the maximum gain is limited to only 6dB - in case you are still confused, it means gain over the DAC's output (which is line-level by default, a.k.a. line-out).


 


 Okay, that's fine and makes sense - only if we know what the line level signal output from the DAC is.  Is it a true 2 V peak-to-peak signal, or something less?  These days you never know.


----------



## WaLaoEh

Quote: 





clieos said:


> That depends a lot on what your current setup is, but GR07 in itself is not a hard to drive IEM.


 


  I use an iPod Touch 4G.
 But would there be any difference/improvement in SQ?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





blackbeardben said:


> Is it a true 2 V peak-to-peak signal, or something less?  These days you never know.


 
  I have no idea, but it shouldn't be difficult for WM8740 to have that kind of number,

  
  Quote: 





walaoeh said:


> I use an iPod Touch 4G.
> But would there be any difference/improvement in SQ?


 
  I'll say you are fine with the iPod alone but there should be improvement. As for how big an improvement, it is really more of an individual opinion up for interpretation.


----------



## WaLaoEh

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I'll say you are fine with the iPod alone but there should be improvement. As for how big an improvement, it is really more of an individual opinion up for interpretation.


 


  Ok thanks!


----------



## AuxIn

sorry if allready asked or mentioned,
  but what happen if e17 and e9 are combined?
  e17 dac, powerded/charged by e9 and output amped by e9?
  and which of the both does have the better amp?
   
  thx


----------



## JamesFiiO

For people who want to know how can he benefit from an headphone amp, I have some opinion by myself.
   
1, There are two kind of amp, one is designed to provide enough power output so the headphone can get enough power so you can get 100% SQ. 
   
     another kinds is designed to modify the SQ, for example, you have a " cool " headphone, so you want a " warm " amp to change the system to “warm ”， or you are Bass lover so you need a amp with 
   
     bass boost if the bass of your headphone is a little weak.
   
2, To make sure how big the different you will get by add an portable amp in your system, first you need to know what you have and what you are looking for.
   
    for example, usually big cans need a headphone amp because almost all need much more power than a mp3 player or smartphone can provide, of course it can sound, but the SQ is not so good, 
   
    so it is easy to reply that if someone ask me when he has a headphone which with low sensitivity or high impedance because 99% person can hear the different between amp and without amp.
   
    but is will be very difficult to me to reply when someone have special taste of the SQ, someone love heavy bass and some don't , some love Rock, some love Classic, so that is why there are so many kinds of hi-end brands, 
   
    So there will not have standard reply unless you know what kinds of sound you love and will you have enough listening experience to identify the subtile different in SQ.  
   
3, Also remember everyone have an unique ear and change by ages, I had discussed with the Sound Engineer from Westone, they told me that there may have 10 - 20 dB listening different for some people in some special frequency, 
   
    so it is not strange that you may feel there are not any change when you buy am amp and pair with your headphone. so the best is read more review and feedback in head-fi, you will not be wrong if so many user said that they like
   
    one special amp , and it will be great if you find they use the same earphone/headphone that you have.
   
 LOL, it is quite long and not easy to me to explain my opinion, hope someone can help me explain it better!


----------



## AuxIn

since you´re just here,
  please take a look at my question right before your posting (reg. e17+e9)
  thanks


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





auxin said:


> sorry if allready asked or mentioned,
> but what happen if e17 and e9 are combined?
> e17 dac, powerded/charged by e9 and output amped by e9?
> and which of the both does have the better amp?
> ...


 
  When docked E17 to E9, E17 will act as the DAC for E9. Yes, it will be powered/charged by E9 at the same time. You can either set the E17 to send the line-out to E9, or you can set it to send the pre-amp out to E9 (which means the EQ on E17 will have effect on E9). If you have hard to drive headphone, E9 will do a better job at driving it. If you are using easy to moderately hard to drive headphone, E17 itself is enough and probably sound a little better as well.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





*podman* said:


> Did you go for the free headphones, or the FedEx shipping from MP4Nation?  The headphones have got some fairly decent reviews over on Amazon!


 


  I got the free FedEx shipping. If i recall from mp4nation, anything i buy from them usually takes a very long time to ship so i figured FedEx might quicken that process. But now that you mention it i think i should have gotten the Betas as a backup iem =/


----------



## greggie

Quote: 





clieos said:


> When docked E17 to E9, E17 will act as the DAC for E9. Yes, it will be powered/charged by E9 at the same time. You can either set the E17 to send the line-out to E9, or you can set it to send the pre-amp out to E9 (which means the EQ on E17 will have effect on E9). If you have hard to drive headphone, E9 will do a better job at driving it. If you are using easy to moderately hard to drive headphone, E17 itself is enough and probably sound a little better as well.


 

 When you power the E9 on or off, does the E17 power on/off at the same time, or does that still have to be done separately, like the E7?
   
  Having to power the E7 on using the side buttons is one of the things I don't like about it, especially considering how it moves around on the E9 connector.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> I got the free FedEx shipping. If i recall from mp4nation, anything i buy from them usually takes a very long time to ship so i figured FedEx might quicken that process. But now that you mention it i think i should have gotten the Betas as a backup iem =/


 

  
  I purchased it with the earbuds. Hey, did any of you guys get a "100 dollar reward" pop up? I never ordered form Mp4nation and fell a little worried. The symbol on google chrome when I was signing into Paypal showed a ! sing, saying connection to Paypal is confirmed but some information mite be visible. I usually see a full green lock symbol when paying with Paypal. I typed mp4nation.net on the url...
   
  Edit: I'm thinking of changing my Paypal password and email after the transaction.. good idea? My paypal email says it was sent to GPGS, you guys get the same thing?


----------



## skip129

I contacted FiiO and asked them what the maximum output power is when operating as a USB amp - they said 32mW into 300 ohms, so that brings the *HD600 SPL up to 112dB SPL*.


----------



## tme110

Thanks for the review, It's good to see this finally hitting the market.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





greggie said:


> When you power the E9 on or off, does the E17 power on/off at the same time, or does that still have to be done separately, like the E7?
> 
> Having to power the E7 on using the side buttons is one of the things I don't like about it, especially considering how it moves around on the E9 connector.


 


  E17 will behave the same way as E7, E9 supplies the power, but it doesn't have any control over the device itself.


  Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Edit: I'm thinking of changing my Paypal password and email after the transaction.. good idea? My paypal email says it was sent to GPGS, you guys get the same thing?


 
  GPGS is the parent company of MP4 Nation. You should be alright.
  
   
  Quote: 





tme110 said:


> Thanks for the review, It's good to see this finally hitting the market.


 
  This is just the preview. The actually review will come later so there is more o read, including comparison to iBasso D-zero, T5, FiiO E10, E11 and such.


----------



## skiam

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> I purchased it with the earbuds. Hey, did any of you guys get a "100 dollar reward" pop up? I never ordered form Mp4nation and fell a little worried. The symbol on google chrome when I was signing into Paypal showed a ! sing, saying connection to Paypal is confirmed but some information mite be visible. I usually see a full green lock symbol when paying with Paypal. I typed mp4nation.net on the url...
> 
> Edit: I'm thinking of changing my Paypal password and email after the transaction.. good idea? My paypal email says it was sent to GPGS, you guys get the same thing?


 

 Why is it only $135? Wasn't it supposed to be around 150-175?


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





skiam said:


> Why is it only $135? Wasn't it supposed to be around 150-175?


 


  YOU BETTER KNOCK ON WOOD SON!
   
  Also, I have no clue... I was hoping it would be available for pre-order on amazon.


----------



## mrAdrian

Does mp4nation ship overseas?


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Does mp4nation ship overseas?


 


  Yes.


----------



## iamtony

which one sounds better??
  i am planning of getting a new amp
  thanks


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





iamtony said:


> which one sounds better??
> i am planning of getting a new amp
> thanks


 

 Which of what?


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Which of what?


 


  LMAO.. I was about to ask him to clarify for you. His question is quite vague as it stands...


----------



## iamtony

sorry guys
  i mean e17 and e7
  thanks


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





iamtony said:


> sorry guys
> i mean e17 and e7
> thanks


 


 E17 without a doubt.


----------



## Huxley

Can the E17 run as a dac/amp combo?


----------



## AxelCloris

When running USB from a computer, yes.


----------



## Huxley

Ideal thanks, mate on another forum wanted to know.
   
  What about running from and xbox/tv using the 3.5mm jacks or spdif, im assuming it's dac only then?


----------



## tme110

The e17 is an amp/dac combo.
  
  Quote: 





huxley said:


> Ideal thanks, mate on another forum wanted to know.
> 
> What about running from and xbox/tv using the 3.5mm jacks or spdif, im assuming it's dac only then?


 

 What kind of connection on the 3.5?  If you connect to it with an analog conenction then 100% of the time with any component it will be an amp.  If you connect to it with a digital connection then 100% of the time with any (amp/dac) component it will be a DAC (and mostly likely amp also - unless using a lineout).


----------



## Huxley

Thanks, wasn't sure so might as well ask eh.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Just to clarify, the E17 can't be used as a DAC/Amp straight out of an iPhone? What exactly is the difference between an E10 and E17?


----------



## Huxley

E17 is portable for one thing, plus you have more options such as balance/bass boost.
   
  And out of an iphone it's an amp, you'll need a digital connection for it work as a dac.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> Just to clarify, the E17 can't be used as a DAC/Amp straight out of an iPhone?


 

 Yes, it can't.
   


  Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> What exactly is the difference between an E10 and E17?


 
   
  The USB receiver, DAC, and the power amp section (*more specifically, just the chips on these places) are the same. Everything else is different. Detail will be covered in the upcoming review, but for now, you can think of E17 as the portable version of E10 on steroid.


----------



## tme110

if the iphone had a digital out you could use it as a amp/dac but it doesn't.  There are a few (very few) devices that can get digital out of an iphone - I don't see anyone doing this but you could use an iPure doc to get digital off the iphone then connect to the e17.


----------



## duyu

Besides portable cd players, does anyone has any recommendation on portable players that has a digital output??
  I guess the dac of E17 is better than ipod, am I correct?


----------



## tme110

There really is no relation between an ipod and the e17.  An ipod is a storage device and a transport (with a DAC and amp) and the e17 is a Dac (or source) with an amp - it can only play what something else gives to it.
   
  But the portable digital out is really the magic question.  An ipod has a digital out only if you combine it with something like the Ipure.  The HM601 and 801 have digital outs but are very high end.  I think there was a zune dock that had digital outs (but the doc makes it unportable).  Yes, some CD players have digital outs.  There are quite a few DAPs now (digital audio players) but most of them dont have it.  I think there is a whole new round of them coming out.  The Fiio X3 was going to be the new standard in portable DAP with digital out but it got put on hold due to external issues.  When I started writing this I had other devices on my mind but I'm suddenly drawing a blank.


----------



## AgentXXL

While I don't recommend it as my end-all/be-all DAP, I've actually been using my iPad 2 for lossless playback through a DAC. Using the USB adapter that comes with the iPad Camera Connection Kit, you can attach USB DACs. I've been using my iPad 2 with lossless audio files through the USB adapter into my Headamp Pico DAC/Amp. The quality is awesome! I really can't tell the difference listening to the same music from either my MacBook Pro with the Pico attached via USB or the iPad 2 connected the same.
   
  I also have one of the older Apple Universal docks that features a combo 3.5mm stereo jack that also doubles as a SPDIF optical connection. Apple advertised these originally to support digital out from the iPods and early iPhone models. It still works with my iPhone 4 too. I'm really looking forward to the purchase of an E17 and will definitely try feeding the optical output from the old dock into the E17.
   
  Cambridge Audio also makes docks for iDevices that feature digital out, but they are also quite expensive - http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-iD100-Digital-Black/dp/B004KSKYUE
   
  Dale


----------



## JamesFiiO

Meizu just released a new Android phone called MX, which supports coaxial out, will test it when we get the MX . I think it may be a very interested combo.


----------



## duyu

Thanks for your reply.
   
  Yes, I have heard that the ipad with camera connection kit supports digital output. But the problem is that my ipad is a 16GB version with not much space left, and the ipad is a bit too heavy.
   
  What is iPure?
   
  Meizu MX+ E17
  Definitely agree that it is a very interesting combo.
  Does MX support SD card? 
   
  It may be also interesting to test whether it support 24bits playback. (if so, very cool, but I don't know whether there is such an app)
   
  BTW, is there any short (portable) coaxial cable in the market?


----------



## tme110

sorry I guess I did name it wrong but that's how Im used to seeing it
  http://www.amazon.com/Digital-iPhone-Quality-Video-Output/dp/B0049MOK92/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=IYNHIHCYO99ND&colid=2FO8QIUK9UGRK
   
  Blue jean cable can make cables in any length you want but the very nature of a COAX type cable which is thick and doesn't like to bend and that I'm guessing you're looking for a short run with a 180deg bend in it, you may have a hard time finding what you're looking for.  Blue Jean's optical cables are extremely flexible though.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Thanks for that link, TME... I'd seen that dock a year or two ago and couldn't remember what it was called, but it looks like it would satisfy a lot of folks here!


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> sorry I guess I did name it wrong but that's how Im used to seeing it
> http://www.amazon.com/Digital-iPhone-Quality-Video-Output/dp/B0049MOK92/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=IYNHIHCYO99ND&colid=2FO8QIUK9UGRK
> 
> Blue jean cable can make cables in any length you want but the very nature of a COAX type cable which is thick and doesn't like to bend and that I'm guessing you're looking for a short run with a 180deg bend in it, you may have a hard time finding what you're looking for.  Blue Jean's optical cables are extremely flexible though.


 

 Many Thanks, what an interesting device! 
 And you're right, it is not portable..

 Thanks for the information about blue jean cable! Do you think optical fiber is a better choice than coaxial cable?
   
  Maybe, one day the dac will be completely seperated from a DAP...


----------



## AxelCloris

So for those who have pre-ordered from mp4nation, have you heard anything back about their estimate of the 13th as the ship date? I'm crossing my fingers but it seems too optimistic to me. As was said earlier it seems like it would be closer to the end of the month.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> So for those who have pre-ordered from mp4nation, have you heard anything back about their estimate of the 13th as the ship date? I'm crossing my fingers but it seems too optimistic to me. As was said earlier it seems like it would be closer to the end of the month.


 


  No, but the charge to my Bank was initiated today.


----------



## Mozu

I'd been waffling on preordering one or not, until I saw on mp4nation that the E17 uses the AD8397, which I _adored_ in the Penguin Caffeine Pro. Between that, the digital volume control, and a built-in DAC, I'm really looking forward to it.

(How the hell I'm going to physically attach a Fuze to it seems like it'll be a bit of a puzzle, though.)


----------



## higgsbison

unityispower said:


> No, but the charge to my Bank was initiated today.






axelcloris said:


> So for those who have pre-ordered from mp4nation, have you heard anything back about their estimate of the 13th as the ship date? I'm crossing my fingers but it seems too optimistic to me. As was said earlier it seems like it would be closer to the end of the month.




Asked the online chat today and recieved no response. 

Am considering buying this as i just recieved the Audinst MX1 and while its a good dac the neutrality isn't really my thing. Something sounds off, too digital sounding. From the E10 reviews this seems warme, more natural and closer to the sound i've always loved in my other audio endeavours. Not worried much about not having quite so good technicals. Will only be $130 with the free IEMs makes it a better buy with the increase in SQ over E10. Does it sound like type of sound i want or is there something else?


----------



## ClieOS

FiiO is trying to ship it before the end of next week (before Chinese new year, which will be a week off in China). MP4 Nation is the closest international dealer to FiiO, so they should receive their stock first. But for now, it all depends on how fast FiiO can ship them out.
   
  On a happier note, I just receive the replacement unit and it is all working well this time. Hooray!


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





clieos said:


> FiiO is trying to ship it before the end of next week (before Chinese new year, which will be a week off in China). MP4 Nation is the closest international dealer to FiiO, so they should receive their stock first. But for now, it all depends on how fast FiiO can ship them out.
> 
> On a happier note, I just receive the replacement unit and it is all working well this time. Hooray!


 


  Can't wait your full review! 
   
  The Chinese Lunar New Year begins at JAN 23. Mp4nation, as I know, is a Hong Kong company. So, it takes time to transit the products from China to Hong Kong. Unless you choose Fedex, I guess we will probably receive the E17 in Feb. Have to be patient~


----------



## GigaFi

If portability is not a concern, think this is worth the extra $60 vs the E10?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gigafi said:


> If portability is not a concern, think this is worth the extra $60 vs the E10?


 


  For the extra $60, you'll get...
  1) Digital input with 24/192 support
  2) Quite usable EQ with customizable treble and bass boost
  3) Channel balance (useful for those who has imbalance in hearing)
  4) Better SQ. On second listen, I think the SQ between the two units are too close to call for easy to drive headphone. Only with harder to drive headphone that I find E17 to be slightly better.
  5) Portability (though not a concern here).
  6) Just as good an USB DAC as E10.
  7) Digital volume control (no imbalance for sensitive IEM).
  8) Better selectable gain setting.
   
  Does it worth the extra money? I'll think so. The only reason not to get it is that you already own an E10 and need none of the extra features on the E17. I don't know any portable amp / DAC that has as much features as  E17, not even for most amp that double E17's price.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





gigafi said:


> If portability is not a concern, think this is worth the extra $60 vs the E10?


 

 BTW,
   
  It is not $60...
   
_if_
  you preorder it now, which is around 128 (with a coupon code). You will get a free earphone which is worth $28.
   
  I don't know the lowest price of E10 though...


----------



## GigaFi

Yeah that's what I was comparing to, it's around ~70 vs ~130 so $50ish. I didn't factor in the headphones because I don't have a use for them but I suppose I could sell it.
   
  Thanks ClieOS, thinking about getting one now. I have a pair of HD598s and a pair of ZX700s, both of which are not particularly hard to drive but I'm also using my onboard soundcard (integrated), wonder if I'll hear a huge difference...
  
  Quote: 





duyu said:


> BTW,
> 
> It is not $60...
> 
> ...


----------



## AxelCloris

Huzzah! Just like Duyu, I can't wait to hear what you think about it. For me the amp comes before the DAC as most of the time it will be mobile with me. 
    
  Quote:


clieos said:


> FiiO is trying to ship it before the end of next week (before Chinese new year, which will be a week off in China). MP4 Nation is the closest international dealer to FiiO, so they should receive their stock first. But for now, it all depends on how fast FiiO can ship them out.
> 
> On a happier note, I just receive the replacement unit and it is all working well this time. Hooray!


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





duyu said:


> BTW,
> 
> It is not $60...
> 
> ...


 

 What is this coupon code you speak of? I purchased it for 134.50.


----------



## lavii

ClieOS, how good amp section of E17 is as compared to E11.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> What is this coupon code you speak of? I purchased it for 134.50.


 

  
  it's a facebook coupon for liking their page.


----------



## steinmanal

I have been looking into purchasing the Fiio E17, but I've also been intrigued by the PA2V2 amp sold by Electric Avenue.  I understand that the E17 has a DAC, as well as an amp.
   
  I'd be using the device with an iMac, Macbook Air and an iPhone (which would not be able to use the E17 DAC).
   
  Any thoughts on which is the better choice for me, considering sound quality, value and portability?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

PA2V2 has a well colored lush presentation, but other that that it has less control compared even to a E6. I won't really recommend it. For the same money of a PA2V2, JDS cmoyBB or FiiO E11 will make better 'pure amp' choice. E17 will be great as an all-in-one amp / DAC. For a cheaper (and lesser in performance) choice, there is the iBasso D-zero.


----------



## AxelCloris

ClieOS, in terms of just amping and bass boost, how would you say it sounds next to the ZO2? They just came out with v3 and I'm debating the 2 due to size.


----------



## ClieOS

ZO2.3 still has the upper hand if we are talking solely on bass boost. But E17 is overall an better amp, and the bass boost on its isn't too shabby as well. It depends on what you want - if you really want a good bass boost, ZO2.3 is great, but if you want a more transparent and neutral amp, E17 is better. One thing to note is that ZO2.3 will hiss with some of the high sensitivity, low impedance hiss prone IEM (i.e. SE530, SE535, etc) so it is best avoid pairing them together. For most headphone and IEM >32ohm, you should be okay.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





clieos said:


> ZO2.3 still has the upper hand if we are talking solely on bass boost. But E17 is overall an better amp, and the bass boost on its isn't too shabby as well. It depends on what you want - if you really want a good bass boost, ZO2.3 is great, but if you want a more transparent and neutral amp, E17 is better. One thing to note is that ZO2.3 will hiss with some of the high sensitivity, low impedance hiss prone IEM (i.e. SE530, SE535, etc) so it is best avoid pairing them together. For most headphone and IEM >32ohm, you should be okay.


 


  ClieOS, I have the E11 and I find the amp + bass boost rocks my M50s like no other. How would you say the bass boost on the E17 is in comparison to the E11. I'm looking to get a DAC/Amp. I didn't like the E7 at all. Sounded very weak in comparison to the E11 amp-wise, plus it didn't work out of the right channel when used as a DAC.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> ClieOS, I have the E11 and I find the amp + bass boost rocks my M50s like no other. How would you say the bass boost on the E17 is in comparison to the E11. I'm looking to get a DAC/Amp. I didn't like the E7 at all. Sounded very weak in comparison to the E11 amp-wise, plus it didn't work out of the right channel when used as a DAC.


 


  I found the E11 added minor bass with Ultrasone DJ1 Pros... in comparison to my iphone alone. Guessing that means I mite do better with M50's...


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> I found the E11 added minor bass with Ultrasone DJ1 Pros... in comparison to my iphone alone. Guessing that means I mite do better with M50's...


 


  Interesting, but not the case with my M50s. I compared with the iPhone and E11. Not even in the same universe. Thumping bass using EQ setting 2 on the M50s. If the E17 can do similar then I will be satisfied. I'm going to pre-order anyway and hope for the best.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Interesting, but not the case with my M50s. I compared with the iPhone and E11. Not even in the same universe. Thumping bass using EQ setting 2 on the M50s. If the E17 can do similar then I will be satisfied. I'm going to pre-order anyway and hope for the best.


 


  Try to find out if you could use the coupon code mentioned by jono454...


  Quote: 





jono454 said:


> it's a facebook coupon for liking their page.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> ClieOS, I have the E11 and I find the amp + bass boost rocks my M50s like no other. How would you say the bass boost on the E17 is in comparison to the E11. I'm looking to get a DAC/Amp. I didn't like the E7 at all. Sounded very weak in comparison to the E11 amp-wise, plus it didn't work out of the right channel when used as a DAC.


 

 I think E11 actually has more power than E17, but E17 can put out more bass via its EQ. The difference between the two (power vs. EQ) is that power doesn't actually change the FR curve, but it adds more impact, speed, and damping (*control, which affects the overall body of the bass note). With EQ, the FR curve is changed so the frequency has more gain (voltage). With the E7, it is limited on both (power and EQ). With E11, the EQ isn't a lot but the power is; with E17, the EQ is more dominated than the power. You probably won't find E17's bass quite as tight as E11, but purely on volume wise, E17 will have more.
   

  
  Quote: 





unityispower said:


> I found the E11 added minor bass with Ultrasone DJ1 Pros... in comparison to my iphone alone. Guessing that means I mite do better with M50's...


 
  If you really want a lot of bass boost, try the digiZoid ZO2.3.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I think E11 actually has more power than E17, but E17 can put out more bass via its EQ. The difference between the two (power vs. EQ) is that power doesn't actually change the FR curve, but it adds more impact, speed, and damping (*control, which affects the overall body of the bass note). With EQ, the FR curve is changed so the frequency has more gain (voltage). With the E7, it is limited on both (power and EQ). With E11, the EQ isn't a lot but the power is; with E17, the EQ is more dominated than the power. You probably won't find E17's bass quite as tight as E11, but purely on volume wise, E17 will have more.
> 
> 
> 
> If you really want a lot of bass boost, try the digiZoid ZO2.3.


 


  I'll PM you.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I think E11 actually has more power than E17, but E17 can put out more bass via its EQ. The difference between the two (power vs. EQ) is that power doesn't actually change the FR curve, but it adds more impact, speed, and damping (*control, which affects the overall body of the bass note). With EQ, the FR curve is changed so the frequency has more gain (voltage). *With the E7, it is limited on both (power and EQ). With E11, the EQ isn't a lot but the power is; with E17, the EQ is more dominated than the power.* You probably won't find E17's bass quite as tight as E11, but purely on volume wise, E17 will have more.


 
   
  I absolutely agree with you. Even though I'm new to all this I can tell that my E11 has lots of power. I can barely stand listening past volume setting 4 on the E11. It just feels strong hitting notes whereas the E7 felt lower powered. Thanks for your insights. My E17 has been ordered. I can't wait to try out a few things, like using the camera connection kit from Apple to get digital out from my iPhone. I'll even make a project out of getting digital out from my HP TouchPad.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I absolutely agree with you. Even though I'm new to all this I can tell that my E11 has lots of power. I can barely stand listening past volume setting 4 on the E11. It just feels strong hitting notes whereas the E7 felt lower powered. Thanks for your insights. My E17 has been ordered. I can't wait to try out a few things, like using the camera connection kit from Apple to get digital out from my iPhone. I'll even make a project out of getting digital out from my HP TouchPad.


 


  Does that work on the iPhone? I thought it was a work around for the iPad only?


----------



## RAFA

Well, I just preordered it from MP4Nation . I am so looking forward to it. YAY (the DX100 will have to wait till late spring)


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Does that work on the iPhone? I thought it was a work around for the iPad only?


 
  iPad only.


----------



## mrAdrian

Please disagree with headphonia and tell me you prefer pairing the e17 with the e9 rather than without


----------



## Maxrunner

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Please disagree with headphonia and tell me you prefer pairing the e17 with the e9 rather than without


 


  Hi! did headphonia released a review already?


----------



## Souji

http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-aspen/
   
  GO GO GO!


----------



## RAFA

Isn't its name Alpen?
   
  EDIT: Who cares about the name! After reading the review, I am pretty happy that I preordered it


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





rafa said:


> Isn't its name Alpen?


 
  Haha, Mike moves it to another continent.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> While I don't recommend it as my end-all/be-all DAP, I've actually been using my iPad 2 for lossless playback through a DAC. Using the USB adapter that comes with the iPad Camera Connection Kit, you can attach USB DACs. I've been using my iPad 2 with lossless audio files through the USB adapter into my Headamp Pico DAC/Amp. The quality is awesome! I really can't tell the difference listening to the same music from either my MacBook Pro with the Pico attached via USB or the iPad 2 connected the same.
> 
> *I also have one of the older Apple Universal docks that features a combo 3.5mm stereo jack that also doubles as a SPDIF optical connection. Apple advertised these originally to support digital out from the iPods and early iPhone models. It still works with my iPhone 4 too.* I'm really looking forward to the purchase of an E17 and will definitely try feeding the optical output from the old dock into the E17.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Does that work on the iPhone? I thought it was a work around for the iPad only?


 

  
  Sorry, I misinterpreted AgentXXL's post. It's Apple's Universal Dock that has optical out.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Please disagree with headphonia and tell me you prefer pairing the e17 with the e9 rather than without


 

 I won't say I am disagreeing with Mike's opinion, but I am not in full agreement either. I can see my Mike might prefer E17's internal amp over E9, especially when paired with low impedance headphone. For those who know their E9, you should know there are output resistors on the headphone jack that will color the sound of low impedance headphone (10ohm on 1/4' jack and 33ohm on 1/8' jack, IIRC. These are there to stabilize the opamp output). I am listening to E9 via the 1/4' jack with IEM > 100ohm (ER4S, RE262) , so coloration (from output impedance) is minimum, if any at all.
   
  Now lets talk about the difference first: E17's internal amp has wider soundstage and crispier sparkles. The sonic energy is mainly focus on the upper vocal and up. E9 on the other hand has (a lot) more power. It has excellent control over the bass note which is deep and well bodied while remains tight. It also resolves lower vocal better. The way I like to see them  - E17's internal amp is like a female punk rocker: aggressive, lively, and demands attention. E9 (w/ E17) is more like a tenor: powerful, warm and full of authority. I can't really say one is (very obviously) technically better than the other. They are certain things they are better than the other, but not in everything.  So my recommendation falls back to what they do best in the practical world - if you are using anything below 150ohm, E17 alone is enough. If you are using anything beyond 300ohm, E17+E9 makes better sense. For those in between, I think both can work out well (in different way) depends how you like to take your music.


----------



## dfkt

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Something you don't usually find on portable amp, a channels' balance setting.


 


  Wow, I didn't think they would ever do that. I was thinking out loud about pan/balance in my E7 review in early 2010, and here it is. Kudos to FiiO (but unfortunately I have no need for such a big thing).


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Wow, I didn't think they would ever do that. I was thinking out loud about pan/balance in my E7 review in early 2010, and here it is. Kudos to FiiO (but unfortunately I have no need for such a big thing).


 
  I do think it is your request on the E7 that inspires FiiO to put in the channel balance. It is easier to do on the E17 because now it has a dedicated digital volume controller chip that also handles gain, EQ and balance as well.


----------



## tme110

I thought the e17 used the e11 amp?  That's something I may have misread during the initial messages 6+months ago.
  
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> I think E11 actually has more power than E17, but E17 can put out more bass via its EQ.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Please disagree with headphonia and tell me you prefer pairing the e17 with the e9 rather than without


 


  LOL.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> I thought the e17 used the e11 amp?


 

 No. Totally different circuit design.


----------



## Parall3l

Just pre-ordered the E17 instead of buying the E10. Head-Fi is indeed a bad place for my wallet.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





parall3l said:


> Just pre-ordered the E17 instead of buying the E10. Head-Fi is indeed a bad place for my wallet.


 


  How much are you paying? If purchased at mp4nation, did you go for fedex or free IEM's?


----------



## GigaFi

The headfonia review combined with the OP's post has me sold.
   
  The question is, order it off mp4nation and get $5 off + a pair of brainwavz or wait for it on amazon and pay ~$20 more but get it MUCH faster + better return policy?
   
  If something goes wrong with it and I have to mail it back to HK, it's not going to be cheap.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> How much are you paying? If purchased at mp4nation, did you go for fedex or free IEM's?


 


   
  Mp4nation, 141 USD with the L9 and IEMs, no express shipping. I wonder where the E17s will be sent from. China ? That should be good for me because I'm in Australia.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





gigafi said:


> The headfonia review combined with the OP's post has me sold.
> 
> The question is, order it off mp4nation and get $5 off + a pair of brainwavz or wait for it on amazon and pay ~$20 more but get it MUCH faster + better return policy?
> 
> If something goes wrong with it and I have to mail it back to HK, it's not going to be cheap.


 

  
  Ah yes.. a decision I had to face. Sadly I could not withhold my click finger much longer. Technically however, on the faster aspect... is it not undercut by the fact you would have to wait for amazon to get the product? I guess it depends on how long that takes eh. I have had amazon give me a full refund for many returns I simply didn't like... looking at the return slip they produce for me(I chat with them), they have always stated the product is defective in order to provide me the full refund. This is one reason I always go back to buying items from them... customer service.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





parall3l said:


> Mp4nation, 141 USD with the L9 and IEMs, no express shipping. I wonder where the E17s will be sent from. China ? That should be good for me because I'm in Australia.


 


  I see.. I would think someone with as much post as you would have a L9 laying around. Why did you chose the L9? I was going to order it when I purchase my FiiO E11(sold) and L3 but read it didn't clip onto the iphone 30 pin dock(missing hinges) and went for the L3.


----------



## RAFA

Took the fedex shipping! Don't know what to do with those other headphones...


----------



## dL.

Does anyone know if it works similar like the E7, where if you plug it to a Mac via USB, you cannot control volume thru the system OS, but rather through the buttons on the device only?
   
  If so, then I will stick with the E10.
   
  dL


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





dl. said:


> Does anyone know if it works similar like the E7, where if you plug it to a Mac via USB, you cannot control volume thru the system OS, but rather through the buttons on the device only?
> 
> If so, then I will stick with the E10.
> 
> dL


 


  That's how the E17 works, but so does the E10. What am I missing?


----------



## dL.

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> That's how the E17 works, but so does the E10. What am I missing?


 


  Maybe I should rephrase.
   
  The reason why I asked is because when I tried the E7 before with the Mac, the volume control on the Mac will change but does not make a difference to the actual volume unless you directly press those buttons on the E7 to change. So I was wondering if the E17 is going to be the same as the E7 in this matter? Because if it is then I will pass. However, if it can act like the E10 where I can change the volume on the Mac myself and it will affect the volume output of the E10, providing me flexibility to change volumes at both the computer and the DAC/AMP, then I'm sold.
   
  dL


----------



## tme110

They probably do that because you really want all of your digital volumes to be maxed out anyway and only control volume at one point and only control volume in the analog domain.  It is really best to do it that way and almost all DACs that I've dealt with make you do that.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





dl. said:


> Maybe I should rephrase.
> 
> The reason why I asked is because when I tried the E7 before with the Mac, the volume control on the Mac will change but does not make a difference to the actual volume unless you directly press those buttons on the E7 to change. So I was wondering if the E17 is going to be the same as the E7 in this matter? Because if it is then I will pass. However, if it can act like the E10 where I can change the volume on the Mac myself and it will affect the volume output of the E10, providing me flexibility to change volumes at both the computer and the DAC/AMP, then I'm sold.
> 
> dL


 



 Sounds like you aren't connecting your Mac directly to the DAC via USB on the E7 the same way as the E10. Because if you were, then you wouldn't be able to control the volume from the Mac's volume controls of the E7 or E10 being that they are both DACs. Are you perhaps using one of the other inputs on the E10 in order to do this?


----------



## dL.

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Sounds like you aren't connecting your Mac directly to the DAC via USB on the E7 the same way as the E10. Because if you were, then you wouldn't be able to control the volume from the Mac's volume controls of the E7 or E10 being that they are both DACs. Are you perhaps using one of the other inputs on the E10 in order to do this?


 


  I tried this yesterday at Headphone Bar. All I did was directly plugged the USB from the E10 to the Macbook Pro and select the sound output as the FIIO E10 and I can still control the volume on the keyboard as well as control the volume with the dial. I tested it with the headphone port out in the front. I do hear that the dial does not control the volume of the 3.5mm jack output at the back.
   
  I did the same thing to the E7 and while I could control the volume on the Mac, it made no change to the actual E7's output.
   
  dL


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





dl. said:


> I tried this yesterday at Headphone Bar. All I did was directly plugged the USB from the E10 to the Macbook Pro and select the sound output as the FIIO E10 and I can still control the volume on the keyboard as well as control the volume with the dial. I tested it with the headphone port out in the front. I do hear that the dial does not control the volume of the 3.5mm jack output at the back.
> 
> I did the same thing to the E7 and while I could control the volume on the Mac, it made no change to the actual E7's output.
> 
> dL


 

 Interesting... I am not able to do that on the E7 and assumed all USB DACs behaved the same way as this is the intent.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





rafa said:


> Took the fedex shipping! Don't know what to do with those other headphones...


 


  I see.. I could use some IEM's for my iPhone and I saw they come with Comply foam tips and the option for the mic/control version. Being that I wanted to test out comply foam tips, want IEM with a remote for my iPhone, and don't mind a little wait, I went with the B Beta.


----------



## higgsbison

Quote: 





parall3l said:


> Mp4nation, 141 USD with the L9 and IEMs, no express shipping. I wonder where the E17s will be sent from. China ? That should be good for me because I'm in Australia.


 


  I've ordered from MP4 Nation and it took a 7 days to deliver to Brisbane and this was the week before Xmas. Fedex will probably not be worth it and i'd be surprised at more than a couple of days faster.
   
   
  Mikes review is very good. Just confused as in the E10 review he says it sounds like a $130-140 product. Then goes on to say in the E17 review how it is better in just about every way over the E10 but he would be happier if it were closer to $120 than the $150. Might have to question him myself on this as these seem contradictory statements.


----------



## eclein

They sell for $134.50 pre-order price....


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> I've ordered from MP4 Nation and it took a 7 days to deliver to Brisbane and this was the week before Xmas. Fedex will probably not be worth it and i'd be surprised at more than a couple of days faster.
> 
> 
> Mikes review is very good. Just confused as in the E10 review he says it sounds like a $130-140 product. Then goes on to say in the E17 review how it is better in just about every way over the E10 but he would be happier if it were closer to $120 than the $150. Might have to question him myself on this as these seem contradictory statements.


 


  If you are not sure about the accuracy of headfonia's review (I tust him very much), wait for ClieOS's full impression. ClieOS is very accurate! I can guarantee on that, because everything he reviewed, that also was in my possesion, he exactly described it like how I also felt about the sound.


----------



## louisnomad

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> Mikes review is very good. Just confused as in the E10 review he says it sounds like a $130-140 product. Then goes on to say in the E17 review how it is better in just about every way over the E10 but he would be happier if it were closer to $120 than the $150. Might have to question him myself on this as these seem contradictory statements.


 
   

  try to write so many reviews and you will fatally tangle your thoughts... lol


----------



## cha0s

I was going to get the E17+E9, but after reading the Headfonia review for it, I think i'll just get the E17 from Amazon.  It should be enough to properly drive D7000s (I hope- what do you guys think?)  I guess I'll just wait for a new version of the E9.  Thanks for posting that review!


----------



## Parall3l

For the guys that ordered the E17 from mp4nation, I found the delivery time frame.

 http://mp4nation.net/catalog/shippinginfo.html


----------



## GigaFi

2-4 weeks to the US, and that's assuming they get it on time and it's not backordered
   
  why can't I be a patient person? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





parall3l said:


> For the guys that ordered the E17 from mp4nation, I found the deliver time frame.
> 
> http://mp4nation.net/catalog/shippinginfo.html


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





gigafi said:


> 2-4 weeks to the US, and that's assuming they get it on time and it's not backordered
> 
> why can't I be a patient person?


 


  Eh.. I'm cool with it being I had little other choice. Now, if amazon gets it and even with ordering late, I could have gotten it faster... FML.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





dl. said:


> Does anyone know if it works similar like the E7, where if you plug it to a Mac via USB, you cannot control volume thru the system OS, but rather through the buttons on the device only?
> 
> If so, then I will stick with the E10.
> 
> dL


 

 You can adjust volume on E17 via the PC's volume control. However, there is a good reason not to - PC volume control also affects digital data resolution. A typical music files is 16bit/44.1kHz, if you lower volume on the PC, the internal process will also lower the overall bit rate of the file, so you might only getting about 10bit on the output instead of the original 16bit (and it get worst the lower you go). That's why some manufacturer disable the volume control on the PC side.
   

  
  Quote: 





cha0s said:


> I was going to get the E17+E9, but after reading the Headfonia review for it, I think i'll just get the E17 from Amazon.  It should be enough to properly drive D7000s (I hope- what do you guys think?)  I guess I'll just wait for a new version of the E9.  Thanks for posting that review!


 
  I have posted my impression about E17+E9 on page 10, have a read.


----------



## putente

Do you know which opamp is used on the E17 headphone section, that makes it sound better than AD8397 used on the E10?


----------



## Maxrunner

Is there a Euro store that already lets pre order?


----------



## putente

Not that I know of. I'm trying to get information with FiiO of any possible shipping date to sellers in Europe, but I've got nothing from them so far... 
  
  Quote: 





maxrunner said:


> Is there a Euro store that already lets pre order?


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





maxrunner said:


> Is there a Euro store that already lets pre order?


 


  Well, if you have paypal... it is in euro for you. I got it from MP4Nation for 101€.


----------



## Maxrunner

Quote: 





rafa said:


> Well, if you have paypal... it is in euro for you. I got it from MP4Nation for 101€.


 

 What about customs???if it comes from US its probably better to expect customs...


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





maxrunner said:


> What about customs???if it comes from US its probably better to expect customs...


 


  mp4nation.net is based in Hongkong. Customs may come, depends on the country you live in...


----------



## putente

True. In mine, it's almost for sure it will happen...
  
  Quote: 





rafa said:


> mp4nation.net is based in Hongkong. Customs may come, depends on the country you live in...


----------



## putente

Well, my question was replied @Heafonia by Chung James (feiao) that the E17 uses the AD8397 for the headphone section, which is the same opamp as in the E10! So, why the different sound between them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  Quote: 





putente said:


> Do you know which opamp is used on the E17 headphone section, that makes it sound better than AD8397 used on the E10?


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





putente said:


> Well, my question was replied @Heafonia by Chung James (feiao) that the E17 uses the AD8397 for the headphone section, which is the same opamp as in the E10! So, why the different sound between them?


 

  
  It is actually ADI AD8692+AD8397. I am still looking into that topic myself, but its is like you need two opamps in a row to make it possible to output 277mW @ 16Ohm (in this case).
   
  The E10 outputs 200mW @ 16Ohm. The difference shows clearly that there are very different circuits inside those two amps/DACs. Both they have the AD8397 inside, but the rest of the circuite is different. -> the E17 must sound different... my english kind of sucks, hope you understand what I mean.


----------



## Maxrunner

Yep i live in Portugal so i assume i would get customs payment but i probably depends of the size of the package....


----------



## putente

Yep, it's easily understandable, and there's nothing wrong with your english... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





rafa said:


> It is actually ADI AD8692+AD8397. I am still looking into that topic myself, but its is like you need two opamps in a row to make it possible to output 277mW @ 16Ohm (in this case).
> 
> The E10 outputs 200mW @ 16Ohm. The difference shows clearly that there are very different circuits inside those two amps/DACs. Both they have the AD8397 inside, but the rest of the circuite is different. -> the E17 must sound different... my english kind of sucks, hope you understand what I mean.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





rafa said:


> It is actually ADI AD8692+AD8397. I am still looking into that topic myself, but its is like you need two opamps in a row to make it possible to output 277mW @ 16Ohm (in this case).
> 
> The E10 outputs 200mW @ 16Ohm. The difference shows clearly that there are very different circuits inside those two amps/DACs. Both they have the AD8397 inside, but the rest of the circuite is different. -> the E17 must sound different... my english kind of sucks, hope you understand what I mean.


 


  Exactly, using the same opamp doesn't mean they will sound the same. It is all about implementation. Putting an F1 racer engine into a street car doesn't turn the street car an F1 racer.


----------



## tme110

Same even goes for DAC chips.  You can't assume something is going to sound a specific way because it has a ESS9018 - it's the implementation that counts.


----------



## estreeter

Guys, I know most of the excitement around the E17 is the DAC section, but what Headfonia Mike *seems* be saying is that the E11 is a better amp than the amp in the E17 (having pretty much said that the DAC in the E17 is better than virtually everything else in that price bracket).
   
  I sense an *iBasso D7 vs Fiio E17* brawl in Mike's future


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Guys, I know most of the excitement around the E17 is the DAC section, but what Headfonia Mike *seems* be saying is that the E11 is a better amp than the amp in the E17 (having pretty much said that the DAC in the E17 is better than virtually everything else in that price bracket).
> 
> I sense an *iBasso D7 vs Fiio E17* brawl in Mike's future


 


  Don't think that Mike would compare them directly, since he did not do it with the D-Zero (or whatsoever it is called usb ibasso Dac/amp) and E17. He may know both the iBasso and Fiio people... he may not want to lose face.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Guys, I know most of the excitement around the E17 is the DAC section, but what Headfonia Mike *seems* be saying is that the E11 is a better amp than the amp in the E17 (having pretty much said that the DAC in the E17 is better than virtually everything else in that price bracket).
> 
> I sense an *iBasso D7 vs Fiio E17* brawl in Mike's future


 
  Purely talking about the amp section, I'll agree that E11 (and in fact T3D as well, which I rate to be the same level as E11), is better than E17 because of E11's raw power, overall smoothness and authority. But I won't say E11 is crashing E17. It is better alright, but nothing night and day about it. However, those who find E11 to be too dark for their taste will be happy to know that E17 sounds closer to the brighter sounding T3D than it is to E11.


----------



## estreeter

@RAFA, really ?
   
 _*E17 versus the Ibasso D-Zero*_   
_Built and dimensions wise, I like the D-Zero better. It’s smaller, slimmer, uses fully analog controls, and is lighter. However, when it comes to the sound, again I’m for the Fiio’s warmer, fuller sounding sound. For more details on the D-Zero comparison, you can look at the D-Zero review, where I compared it to the E10 (think of the E17 as a supercharged E10)._
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/
   
  And from the aforementioned d-ZERO review:
   
 _*Versus the Fiio E7 and the E10*_   
_The technicalities are generally good. Very black background with a good instrument separation. Soundstage depth is not as deep as on the Fiio E10, but there is a good tradeoff since the background on the music is blacker on the D-Zero. The tonality is generally neutral and slightly dark. Everything sounds good and in place, very orderly. Comparing the D-Zero to the E7, there really is no contest, at least in my view. The D-Zero has a more linear frequency response (the E7 is slightly boosted on the treble), the background is much blacker on the D-Zero, grain levels lower, and the sound is smoother on the D-Zero as well. Oh, and the amp is punchier on the D-Zero as well. I don’t think I’ve ever given this much praise to an Ibasso product before._
_One thing I wish was different is the midrange, which I find to not have enough body hence not as full sounding than the E10 Fiio. Again a trade-off thing since the music is more orderly, each instrument taking a clearer stance on the D-Zero. So I would put a plus on the D-Zero for technicalities, while I would give a plus on the E10 on fun factor._
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/fiio-e7-meet-your-rival-the-ibasso-d-zero/
   
  Next !


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Purely talking about the amp section, I'll agree that E11 (and in fact T3D as well, which I rate to be the same level as E11), is better than E17 because of E11's raw power, overall smoothness and authority. But I won't say E11 is crashing E17. It is better alright, but nothing night and day about it. However, those who find E11 to be too dark for their taste will be happy to know that E17 sounds closer to the brighter sounding T3D than it is to E11.


 


  Fair enough - I own the T3, but that's about it in term of these ultra-budget amps. To me, if you are getting 'raw power' from anything in the T3's price range (and I think the E11 is cheaper, no ?), go for it. Have you heard iBasso's D7, ClieOS ? I'm sorely tempted to get the blasted thing.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Fair enough - I own the T3, but that's about it in term of these ultra-budget amps. To me, if you are getting 'raw power' from anything in the T3's price range (and I think the E11 is cheaper, no ?), go for it. Have you heard iBasso's D7, ClieOS ? I'm sorely tempted to get the blasted thing.


 

 I did a simple test recently on some of my amp to compare power, E11 actually come out on top among T3D, T5, E6, ZO (v1 and v2.3), PA2V2 and even StepDance. E17 is in second while T3D is second to last. They are however all have ample power for IEM and most moderate load.
   
  Never listen to D7, probably never will. I am not interested in any of the iBasso full size portable amp. Between 3MOVE and StepDance (* with O2 coming soon, if you can call that portable), I see no reason to care for another full size portable at the moment. My main interest is in ultra-portable + sub-$200 as that is where I see the most interesting development is at - plus they go well with IEM, which is what I used most of the time.


----------



## estreeter

I may have ruffled a few feathers over at Headfonia - Mike seems to have taken me a little too seriously:
   
_Some manufacturers chose to make their products not available to us. Some make it easy for us. That's the bottom line on why some things get reviewed and some don't. Sometimes, I have friends who loan things to me and I can get the reviews done that way. You really should count the number of new products introduced every week then you can understand why we simply can't review every single thing.
 Remember, for every article published I have to:
 1. Talk to a manufacturer, beg, bug, ask for a sample.
 2. Arrange logistics, customs process.
 3. Listen and evaluate.
 4. Brainstorm, write.
 5. Take product shots, sometimes up to 4 photo sessions for a product. _
_6. Post process the photos, final edit the article.
 7. Answer people's comments on the article.

 While I'm working on this E17 article I was working simultaneously on 4 other articles. That's why I make stupid mistakes like writing Aspen in place of Alpen._

_With this kind of a work load, I rarely have the time to email Ibasso over and over again for a sample. If you want that D7 review, bug Ibasso to send one to us and I promise you the review will be pure and unbiased.
 These are the articles I've written on the Ibasso. Read them and tell me I'm biased. http://www.headfonia.com/?s=ibasso _


----------



## Parall3l

He sounds like his very stressed from all the work. Maybe a nice vacation could help ?


----------



## ClieOS

A bit OT, but I find iBasso hard to approach when it comes to sample request - I asked them once a while ago, but never really get to the bottom of it for various reasons. I end up buying those amps myself (*a little crazy on my part) but I am happier that way.


----------



## estreeter

I've never seen anyone review so much kit so quickly, and I've definitely never seen anyone respond to comments so quickly. If I can paraphrase CoD, he'll get a medal, a bodybag or both. Time for a break, methinks.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





clieos said:


> A bit OT, but I find iBasso hard to approach when it comes to sample request - I asked them once a while ago, but never really get to the bottom of it for various reasons. I end up buying those amps myself (*a little crazy on my part) but I am happier that way.


 


  They have been notorious since Skylab gave a so-so review of one of their amps (I think it was the D2) and they refused to send him any more samples. I've said it before, but they are one of the few vendors on Head-Fi without an identifiable human presence : even Fiio has Feiao.


----------



## mrAdrian

I guess so, everyone has been asking for a Fiio e17 review. Must've driven him nuts... I mean he address' every single one's question on his site and the fb page
   
  Now that my e17 review is done, go have a rest Mike


----------



## zhenya

Is there a verified output impedance spec for the e17 yet?
   
  Also, I'm not clear if the e17 can do line out on its own, or whether it will need something like the L7?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## estreeter

Oy vey, always with the output impedance ! Is it too big, is it too small, will the girls like it .......


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





zhenya said:


> Is there a verified output impedance spec for the e17 yet?
> 
> Also, I'm not clear if the e17 can do line out on its own, or whether it will need something like the L7?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 My measurement shows around 0.1ohm or so.
   
  If you want line-out from E17, you need L7.


----------



## Mozu

From mp4nation:
_
Our customer support team personnel has replied to your support request #759022 

hi

We are still not sure at this point, FiiO have informed us that they will know by Monday if they can provide us with E17 unit before they close for their holidays.

We will inform buyers on Monday once we get the final confirmation on delivery of the first batch of E17.

Regards
Raz
_
Here's to keeping our fingers crossed...


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





mozu said:


> From mp4nation:
> 
> _Our customer support team personnel has replied to your support request #759022
> hi
> ...


 
  Son of a Frack, so the first batch ship date of 1/13 is not going to happen...


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Son of a Frack, so the first batch ship date of 1/13 is not going to happen...


----------



## zhenya

Quote: 





clieos said:


> My measurement shows around 0.1ohm or so.
> 
> If you want line-out from E17, you need L7.


 


  Thank you.


----------



## psygeist

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Son of a Frack, so the first batch ship date of 1/13 is not going to happen...


 


*Expected date to ship to customers is MIDDLE OF FEB.*


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





psygeist said:


> *Expected date to ship to customers is MIDDLE OF FEB.*


 


  I think thats for the second batch.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





psygeist said:


> *Expected date to ship to customers is MIDDLE OF FEB.*


 


  I just chatted with support and they say the first batch is expected to ship next week.. but yes, I can read(LOL). I in fact posted a question about the fact it said MIDDLE OF FEB and was answered with a response..


----------



## putente

Another question about the line-out. Both the E17 (with the L7) and the E10 line-out should sound the same, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> My measurement shows around 0.1ohm or so.
> 
> If you want line-out from E17, you need L7.


----------



## psygeist

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> I just chatted with support and they say the first batch is expected to ship next week.. but yes, I can read(LOL). I in fact posted a question about the fact it said MIDDLE OF FEB and was answered with a response..


 


  That's a relief. I hope my faith in Fiio is not unfounded unlike the case with ZO2.


----------



## LarsP

Will this be a good match with my 1964 Quads? The line out on my laptop at work is broken, so I'm looking for a cheap, but good fix.


----------



## ebmp19

The website used to say they where expected to ship on the 13th of January but now they changed it to the middle of February... IDK if that's for people that are ordering as they have shipped the first batch or if they changed the time for all of them.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





ebmp19 said:


> The website used to say they where expected to ship on the 13th of January but now they changed it to the middle of February... IDK if that's for people that are ordering as they have shipped the first batch or if they changed the time for all of them.


 

  
  The middle of February is for the second batch. The shipment for the first batch was delayed for a few days I think


----------



## ebmp19

Well I guess I'm probably not going to get mine on time lol... Got it for my birthday which is the 18th of January which would have been perfect if it shipped on the expected time. Oh well I knew this would happen


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





putente said:


> Another question about the line-out. Both the E17 (with the L7) and the E10 line-out should sound the same, right?


 

 Good that you ask that question. Supposedly I would assume they should be the same, but they (* USB input to line-out) are not. I did an ABX on both just now and E17 sounds more neutral and better transparent (which gives it a better depth in soundstage) while E10 sounds just a tiny bit warm. The difference isn't a lot but it is there. I won't have noticed it if not comparing their line-out purposely.


----------



## gohanssjn

So, given that the E17 is a DAC and an amp, is there any real reason to get an E9 for use with it unless you have headphones over 300ohm?


----------



## tme110

It's always nice to have extra reserve power but I imagine a 300 ohm phone, HD6xx, would still benefit nicely from the e9


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> It's always nice to have extra reserve power but I imagine a 300 ohm phone, HD6xx, would still benefit nicely from the e9


 


  My 598 are only 50ohm, so that's why I asked, lol.  I am trying to decide between a E17 or an E7/E9 combo.


----------



## tme110

I'd get the e17 and if you felt you needed the e9 later then get it.  But I'm not sure I'd ever recco getting the e7 at this point.


----------



## gohanssjn

Hmm, guess I'll just have to wait a while then


----------



## bowei006

From reviews. The E7 is no longer recommended due to how awesome the E17 is. The E9 is also a problem :/ . It has a lot of power, but it's amp doesn't "sound" as good as the E17's from what i've heard from all the reviews. FiiO is already working on a new desktop amp...but it won't be out for a while :/  so it's up to you


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> From reviews. The E7 is no longer recommended due to how awesome the E17 is. The E9 is also a problem :/ . It has a lot of power, but it's amp doesn't "sound" as good as the E17's from what i've heard from all the reviews. FiiO is already working on a new desktop amp...but it won't be out for a while :/  so it's up to you


 

 I'll still recommend E7 for anyone with a tight budget. If you have no budget limit, then sky is the limit.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I'll still recommend E7 for anyone with a tight budget. If you have no budget limit, then sky is the limit.


 

 that's what i mmeant. but as head fi'ers. $50 isn't much. but however. i would say the E7 is still good. with the E17 out. i bet FiiO will further reduce the price. and there will also be a lot of used ones being traded and sold for less


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> From reviews. The E7 is no longer recommended due to how awesome the E17 is. The E9 is also a problem :/ . It has a lot of power, but it's amp doesn't "sound" as good as the E17's from what i've heard from all the reviews. FiiO is already working on a new desktop amp...but it won't be out for a while :/  so it's up to you


 


  But, that E9 is only about $80 (I just got a new one from Amazon at that price) and while I agree that the review (Mike's at Headfonia?) did say that the 9 robbed some SQ from the 17 when used in conjunction, I didn't get the sense that it was a deal-breaker.  If you need the extra juice, $8/month is probably a worthwhile expense during the next few seasons that new Fiio project is going to take.  At least that's how I'm looking at it.  Plus, it'll have some resale value when the new 'E9' does finally come out, I suspect.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> But, that E9 is only about $80 (I just got a new one from Amazon at that price) and while I agree that the review (Mike's at Headfonia?) did say that the 9 robbed some SQ from the 17 when used in conjunction, I didn't get the sense that it was a deal-breaker.  If you need the extra juice, $8/month is probably a worthwhile expense during the next few seasons that new Fiio project is going to take.  At least that's how I'm looking at it.  Plus, it'll have some resale value when the new 'E9' does finally come out, I suspect.


 


  I still can't believe what Mike says, E17 is better than E9+E17...ClieOS has an explanation for that.  
   
  So, ClieOS, 
  did you test the difference between E17 and E9+E17, using a high impedance headphone?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> But, that E9 is only about $80 (I just got a new one from Amazon at that price) and while I agree that the review (Mike's at Headfonia?) did say that the 9 robbed some SQ from the 17 when used in conjunction, I didn't get the sense that it was a deal-breaker.  If you need the extra juice, $8/month is probably a worthwhile expense during the next few seasons that new Fiio project is going to take.  At least that's how I'm looking at it.  Plus, it'll have some resale value when the new 'E9' does finally come out, I suspect.


 

 that's a good way of thinking about it. but that argument to me is like. Why i should buy the Triplefi10's right now or any headphones i want. or just buy the best so i won't spend excess money. :/ it's a great audiophile paradox
   


  Quote: 





duyu said:


> I still can't believe what Mike says, E17 is better than E9+E17...ClieOS has an explanation for that.
> 
> So, ClieOS,
> did you test the difference between E17 and E9+E17, using a high impedance headphone?


 
   
  i think they meant it was better sound quality wise and regular headphones. of course high impendance one's would need the E9 to drive it to that sweet spot.


----------



## TigreNegrito

True, Bowei.  I'm sure there are just as many conflicting opinions amongst the high-rollers here as to what that 'best' set-up is, too!  That's what I like about this website, though - you can do a lot of research for 'free' before you buy and, as you told me before, get a sense of who really knows what they are talking about to help make an educated decision.  In the end, though, it's still gonna cost ya, so better to set your budget and determine your 'acceptable loss' first.
   
  P.S. I thought the TF10's WERE the best?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> True, Bowei.  I'm sure there are just as many conflicting opinions amongst the high-rollers here as to what that 'best' set-up is, too!  That's what I like about this website, though - you can do a lot of research for 'free' before you buy and, as you told me before, get a sense of who really knows what they are talking about to help make an educated decision.  In the end, though, it's still gonna cost ya, so better to set your budget and determine your 'acceptable loss' first.
> 
> P.S. I thought the TF10's WERE the best?


 

 haha yeah, you have so many people giving you idea's and what not. Plus this site is extremely friendly. IHAVE NEVER SEEN a head fi'er troll any Beats fan that has come here. We troll on the Beats page but never to someone. That was a big part of why I liked this place
 http://www.head-fi.org/pages/stats/top/range/30day/#members
 lolololol when i saw this i felt prooud..very proud. 
   
  Head-Fi is also very very informative and you can learn a lot. 
   
  TF10's the Best? Best is very objective ya know. but no. They are one of the good non custom professional consumer one's to buy. But specicially custom one's are more or less the best. 
 Im not an IEM person, just a headphone person
   
  and sorry. i don't remember everything i have ever said to you. i remembeer u by the profile pic but that's it. As you can tell from that link to the members post page. it would be ridiculous of me to remember everyoe in this past month.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Yeah, I was just kidding you about the UE's.  Although they are now $170 vs the 4 bills they cost when I got em.  Add to that a new cable ($40) and a reshell and you've got a pseudo-custom IEM for about what my first set cost me!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> Yeah, I was just kidding you about the UE's.  Although they are now $170 vs the 4 bills they cost when I got em.  Add to that a new cable ($40) and a reshell and you've got a pseudo-custom IEM for about what my first set cost me!


 


  haha. they were on sale for $100 during black friday and can currently be easily had for $130  i'm not an IEM person so seeing the vi series cost $450 ....was a bit weird..and then the pro's. :/ wow it's hard to find what is so differnt but whatever. 
  how are yu liking ur TF10's?


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> that's a good way of thinking about it. but that argument to me is like. Why i should buy the Triplefi10's right now or any headphones i want. or just buy the best so i won't spend excess money. :/ it's a great audiophile paradox
> 
> 
> i think they meant it was better sound quality wise and regular headphones. of course high impendance one's would need the E9 to drive it to that sweet spot.


 
  You're right, my question is invalid. Sorry about that.
   
  I was thinking about headphone with impedance around 300ohm~
   
  But you're right... comparing E17 and E17+E9 does make much sense...


----------



## TigreNegrito

Bowei, I love em.  Like you, though, hard to tell a difference from one to another... I have the 5's and the 10's and I can run them off a splitter so that one ear has one 5 in it and the other ear has the opposite 10 in it and while I know the technical differences exist between the two, it's still pretty much balanced sound to me.  Maybe my ears are just average, who knows.  I am doing the reshell on both of them, though, just because I'm kinda sick of paying a relative fortune for freaking pieces of foam.  All the tips I've bought in the past 5 years could easily have paid for the reshell/cable upgrades, so counting my losses now and getting in on the deal.
   
  And to bring this back to the Fiio E17, I can't wait to hear how they sound with that, as nice as they sound with the little E6!
   
  P.S. The vi version, which I got, is just a cable difference with a mic and single-button toggle along the wire with the appropriate 3.5 mm phone plug.  I can swap that cable between either pair of IEM's and they both work with the phone, although the person on the other end of the call usually complains of audio quality on my end, so I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> Bowei, I love em.  Like you, though, hard to tell a difference from one to another... I have the 5's and the 10's and I can run them off a splitter so that one ear has one 5 in it and the other ear has the opposite 10 in it and while I know the technical differences exist between the two, it's still pretty much balanced sound to me.  Maybe my ears are just average, who knows.  I am doing the reshell on both of them, though, just because I'm kinda sick of paying a relative fortune for freaking pieces of foam.  All the tips I've bought in the past 5 years could easily have paid for the reshell/cable upgrades, so counting my losses now and getting in on the deal.
> 
> And to bring this back to the Fiio E17, I can't wait to hear how they sound with that, as nice as they sound with the little E6!
> 
> P.S. The vi version, which I got, is just a cable difference with a mic and single-button toggle along the wire with the appropriate 3.5 mm phone plug.  I can swap that cable between either pair of IEM's and they both work with the phone, although the person on the other end of the call usually complains of audio quality on my end, so I wouldn't recommend it.


 

 why do you need to reshell your IEM's? is there a problem with the tips? What can you tell me about what i should do with the Triple Fi 10's in general and with detail?
  The Pro series are $450 for some reason :/
   
  Yeah I can't wait to hear the WM8740  also my E5 broke so i'm using my ipod with no LOD right now...it sounds so thin >_<


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





duyu said:


> So, ClieOS,
> did you test the difference between E17 and E9+E17, using a high impedance headphone?


 

 Allow me to quote myself.
   


  Quote: 





clieos said:


> I won't say I am disagreeing with Mike's opinion, but I am not in full agreement either. I can see my Mike might prefer E17's internal amp over E9, especially when paired with low impedance headphone. For those who know their E9, you should know there are output resistors on the headphone jack that will color the sound of low impedance headphone (10ohm on 1/4' jack and 33ohm on 1/8' jack, IIRC. These are there to stabilize the opamp output).* I am listening to E9 via the 1/4' jack with IEM > 100ohm (ER4S, RE262)* , so coloration (from output impedance) is minimum, if any at all.
> 
> Now lets talk about the difference first: E17's internal amp has wider soundstage and crispier sparkles. The sonic energy is mainly focus on the upper vocal and up. E9 on the other hand has (a lot) more power. It has excellent control over the bass note which is deep and well bodied while remains tight. It also resolves lower vocal better. The way I like to see them  - E17's internal amp is like a female punk rocker: aggressive, lively, and demands attention. E9 (w/ E17) is more like a tenor: powerful, warm and full of authority. I can't really say one is (very obviously) technically better than the other. They are certain things they are better than the other, but not in everything.  *So my recommendation falls back to what they do best in the practical world - if you are using anything below 150ohm, E17 alone is enough. If you are using anything beyond 300ohm, E17+E9 makes better sense. For those in between, I think both can work out well (in different way) depends how you like to take your music.*


----------



## higgsbison

Have you recieved your replacement unit ClieOS? Just wondering when we can expect your in depth review.


----------



## peternguyen

Is there any confirmation of what the power output is on the E17? I have found different ratings from various sources. And on the Fiio website, here it says in the comparison that it is *35mW x 2 @ 300-Ohm* and here on the product info page it says *>20mW (300Ω Loaded)*; which I am not sure what that means.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Is there any confirmation of what the power output is on the E17? I have found different ratings from various sources. And on the Fiio website, here it says in the comparison that it is *35mW x 2 @ 300-Ohm* and here on the product info page it says *>20mW (300Ω Loaded)*; which I am not sure what that means.


 


  It amplifies @ 215mW @ 32 Ohms
   
*"Loaded Voltage* is the actual voltage crossing the atomizer, this is important so you can find the wattage being ran on your device."


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> Have you recieved your replacement unit ClieOS? Just wondering when we can expect your in depth review.


 
  I have received it, but there is a lot of testing to be done and I do have a day job, not to mention other review that needed to be written.
  
   


  Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Is there any confirmation of what the power output is on the E17? I have found different ratings from various sources. And on the Fiio website, here it says in the comparison that it is *35mW x 2 @ 300-Ohm* and here on the product info page it says *>20mW (300Ω Loaded)*; which I am not sure what that means.


 

 Nothing conflicting about those two number, 35mW is >20mW. 300ohm means they connect to either a 300ohm headphone or (likely) dummy load to do the testing.


----------



## peternguyen

Quote:


bowei006 said:


> *"Loaded Voltage* is the actual voltage crossing the atomizer, this is important so you can find the wattage being ran on your device."


 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Nothing conflicting about those two number, 35mW is >20mW. 300ohm means they connect to either a 300ohm headphone or (likely) dummy load to do the testing.


 

 Thanks. I'm pretty new to headphones and related gear so I wasn't sure. I just got the DT880 and am trying to find out how well the E17 will be able to drive it (when USB powered).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Thanks. I'm pretty new to headphones and related gear so I wasn't sure. I just got the DT880 and am trying to find out how well the E17 will be able to drive it (when USB powered).


 


  I don't know much about Beyer's but I have heard and do know that people use E11's a lot with them. Whether you use USB, AUX, or SPDIF, it doesn't matter for amplification. It will still use the same amp. Plugging it into USB doesn't give it a special power boost. I think this is a misconception among new ppl. (Trying to be informative, sorry if i sound stern) The E11 is a bit more powerful than the E17, but I doubt you will really run into any problem, espeically since you also have Gain on this amp/dac.


----------



## peternguyen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I don't know much about Beyer's but I have heard and do know that people use E11's a lot with them. Whether you use USB, AUX, or SPDIF, it doesn't matter for amplification. It will still use the same amp. Plugging it into USB doesn't give it a special power boost. I think this is a misconception among new ppl. (Trying to be informative, sorry if i sound stern) The E11 is a bit more powerful than the E17, but I doubt you will really run into any problem, espeically since you also have Gain on this amp/dac.


 

 Ah cool. Should have also mentioned that it was the 250 ohm version of the DT880. I was reading up on this to try figure out/calculate how much power would be enough for a 250 ohm headphone (to get to 110dB) but it was getting confusing.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Ah cool. Should have also mentioned that it was the 250 ohm version of the DT880. I was reading up on this to try figure out/calculate how much power would be enough for a 250 ohm headphone (to get to 110dB) but it was getting confusing.


 


  after all this time on head-fi i noted that you don't need those meters things to find out. it's all from expereince. you could ask someone that has the 250 ohm DT880 that also has an E11 how well it's driven. i bet the answer is more than enough or just well. the E17 also has a gain setting so i doubt u will not have enough power


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> why do you need to reshell your IEM's? is there a problem with the tips? What can you tell me about what i should do with the Triple Fi 10's in general and with detail?
> The Pro series are $450 for some reason :/
> 
> Yeah I can't wait to hear the WM8740  also my E5 broke so i'm using my ipod with no LOD right now...it sounds so thin >_<


 

 Bowei, both my UE's are pro models.  I can't recall what the difference is between them and non-pro models, other than a marketing excuse to charge more, but since I don't have the normals to compare to, I can't honestly answer.  I was going to reshell the SuperFi 5's because the plastic case is chipped in a few places and I imagine that will continue to happen until there's nothing left to glue back together.  Because there is a deal here to get it done for about $100, I thought maybe I'd get the TF10's done as well, depending on how the first set turns out.  I started looking at how many sets of foam Comply tips I've purchased over the past 5 years and it's easily over $100, and that expense will continue without a reshell, so there's financial incentive, too.
   
  As far as what you should do with them, I assume you mean what sounds good on them, and I listen to everything quite happily.  They are good if I need to block out other noises (flights, yard work, someone snoring, etc.).   But you have something stuffed in your ears, which gets annoying to me sometimes, especially now as I am spoiled with the comfort of my Q701's.  Not going to travel, go mountain biking or mow the lawn with those on, though so it all depends on what you do.
   
  Sorry about your E5.  I was pretty happy with the sound through the TF10's on my ipod until I just got an E6 with a LOD and now it's tough to go back.  Thin is a great way to describe it!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> Bowei, both my UE's are pro models.  I can't recall what the difference is between them and non-pro models, other than a marketing excuse to charge more, but since I don't have the normals to compare to, I can't honestly answer.  I was going to reshell the SuperFi 5's because the plastic case is chipped in a few places and I imagine that will continue to happen until there's nothing left to glue back together.  Because there is a deal here to get it done for about $100, I thought maybe I'd get the TF10's done as well, depending on how the first set turns out.  I started looking at how many sets of foam Comply tips I've purchased over the past 5 years and it's easily over $100, and that expense will continue without a reshell, so there's financial incentive, too.
> 
> As far as what you should do with them, I assume you mean what sounds good on them, and I listen to everything quite happily.  They are good if I need to block out other noises (flights, yard work, someone snoring, etc.).   But you have something stuffed in your ears, which gets annoying to me sometimes, especially now as I am spoiled with the comfort of my Q701's.  Not going to travel, go mountain biking or mow the lawn with those on, though so it all depends on what you do.
> 
> *Sorry about your E5.  I was pretty happy with the sound through the TF10's on my ipod until I just got an E6 with a LOD and now it's tough to go back.  Thin is a great way to describe it!*


 

 hmmm. >_< i'll buy th TF10's when they are $100 again  i don't see a difference on logitech's website nor is it noted. do you lose your comply tips that easy?
   
  And yeah. once you go through a clean LOD and amp. it's hard to go back.....but......we are on this E17 thread for a reason...and i just happened to have quite a bit of money allocated for head-fi stuff. 
   
  I'm into headphones :/ With the TF10's im expecting to break into the IEM department.


----------



## TigreNegrito

No, I don't lose them.. they wear out after about 2 weeks.  You squeeze the foam to compress it and then it expands to fill the space in your canal and create a noise-isolating seal.  After about 2 weeks (for me, and I keep my ears clean) they lose the ability to compress so you're just stuffing the full size foam in and it's not as good a seal.  Silicone last longer, but they don't seal as well (for me) and they get loose with any activity.
   
  But yes, this is way off-topic and the correct thread for that is here:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/309321/ultimate-ears-triple-fi-10-appreciation-thread/5640#post_8056308


----------



## bowei006

True that
   
  Waiting patiently for Amazon release of Alpen


----------



## jono454

Anyone have an opinion on the e17 with the beyer dt990/600 and e17 + e9 with the beyer dt990/600? Im asking cause i currently have one coming in and my current setup runs an AKG k702 which i love.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Anyone have an opinion on the e17 with the beyer dt990/600 and e17 + e9 with the beyer dt990/600? Im asking cause i currently have one coming in and my current setup runs an AKG k702 which i love.


 

 I am probably the only person in Head-fi that has the E17 right now, so I don't think anyone will have a real answer for you. However, I would think a 600ohm cans is really pushing the E17 out of its limit, you will be better of with the E17 + E9 combo.


----------



## planx

ok still not sure about this... so... if i was to use the E9+E17 together, will i be able to use the EQ on the E17 together with the E9? this is for both USB and line in input of the E9. DOCKED together, not cabled together if that clarifies things


----------



## louisnomad

Quote: 





planx said:


> ok still not sure about this... so... if i was to use the E9+E17 together, will i be able to use the EQ on the E17 together with the E9? this is for both USB and line in input of the E9. DOCKED together, not cabled together if that clarifies things


 


   
   
  Yes, you can use the EQ on E17 when on E9 dock.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Could anyone tell me if this device catches interferences from cellphones?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> Could anyone tell me if this device catches interferences from cellphones?


 

 i've never heard of that happening but it is a good question :/ im going to guess you are thinking of use with a smartphone? preferably the 4S?
  i'm not using it with my 4S. im going to use it with my ipod touch 2G through an LOD from the internal Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC with bluetooth and wifi both disabled


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i've never heard of that happening but it is a good question :/ im going to guess you are thinking of use with a smartphone? preferably the 4S?
> i'm not using it with my 4S. im going to use it with my ipod touch 2G through an LOD from the internal Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC with bluetooth and wifi both disabled


 

 not particulary but I have an iBasso, ( old and out of production, D2) and I cant place my cellphone anywhere near it, less than 1 meter and it causes interferences. so would the E17 be abble not to get interferences if you have your cellphone around making calls?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> not particulary but I have an iBasso, ( old and out of production, D2) and I cant place my cellphone anywhere near it, less than 1 meter and it causes interferences. so would the E17 be abble not to get interferences if you have your cellphone around making calls?


 


  That's a good thing to note. But since we ar ein the age of smartphones. I'm going to guess that if that was a big deal.... FiiO would send out new batches or something like it.......a good question. let's ask fiio.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That's a good thing to note. But since we ar ein the age of smartphones. I'm going to guess that if that was a big deal.... FiiO would send out new batches or something like it.......a good question. let's ask fiio.


 


  Last time James said they will test E17 with Meizu MX (Android mobile). I don't know whether they have started the testing or not.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Last time James said they will test E17 with Meizu MX (Android mobile). I don't know whether they have started the testing or not.


 


 but yes. JamesMcProgger brought a valuable point that we sometimes forget or take for granted. Many devices are interferance protected these days but sometimes that fails or doesn't implement itself well and still cause interferance. we can't have any of that especially at this audiophile level  great point


----------



## Parall3l

MP4Nation just received their shipment of E17s.
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=330112153677606&set=a.181159395239550.43052.171024442919712&type=1&theater


----------



## Mozu

Awesome. Definitely looking forward to giving this a listen.

(...and hopefully they have enough in to cover at least the first round of pre-orders.)


----------



## bowei006

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=330112153677606&set=a.181159395239550.43052.171024442919712&type=1&theater
   
  MP4Nation just got their batch!!!!! It's here!


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> Could anyone tell me if this device catches interferences from cellphones?


 

 I tested it next to my Galaxy Ace. RF interference is so low, I almost missed it on the first listen. It has one of the best RF resistance of all the amp I have.


----------



## Mikesin

'Your order has been packed and shipped out - Please allow up-to 5 days for
 tracking to show up online.' - Mp4nation

 Shipped


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> 'Your order has been packed and shipped out - Please allow up-to 5 days for
> tracking to show up online.' - Mp4nation
> 
> Shipped


 

 Plz post personal impressions(anyone who is reading this)  we would all like to know what you guys think


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i've never heard of that happening but it is a good question :/ im going to guess you are thinking of use with a smartphone? preferably the 4S?
> i'm not using it with my 4S. im going to use it with my ipod touch 2G through an LOD from the internal Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC with bluetooth and wifi both disabled


 


  Does the ipod touch 2G really have a CS4398 DAC inside? You know this is the Cirrus flagship DAC...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rafa said:


> Does the ipod touch 2G really have a CS4398 DAC inside? You know this is the Cirrus flagship DAC...


 
  yes i do know. Did you know that an E7 and E10 and even lower priced DAC's have an WM8740 that is found in $500+ DAC's? The CS4398 is one of the last if not the last well documented and know DAC's used by Apple in their 2G and 3G ipod's. The citation link for this is from ifixit. Their teardown's don't reveal what they found the DAC to be. I don't know how and where they got their things. But i have hear the CS4398 to be re iterated many times before. Ican't find links though. Considering that previous ipod's used Woflson WM8758 and WM8975's I wouldn't say the CS4398 is a complete..blah
  
  Ehow from long ago also has a citation from iFixit for the Cirrus Logic. I've noticed that it's not there. Someone may have removied it


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> yes i do know. Did you know that an E7 and E10 and even lower priced DAC's have an WM8740 that is found in $500+ DAC's? The CS4398 is one of the last if not the last well documented and know DAC's used by Apple in their 2G and 3G ipod's. The citation link for this is from ifixit. Their teardown's don't reveal what they found the DAC to be. I don't know how and where they got their things. But i have hear the CS4398 to be re iterated many times before. Ican't find links though. Considering that previous ipod's used Woflson WM8758 and WM8975's I wouldn't say the CS4398 is a complete..blah
> 
> Ehow from long ago also has a citation from iFixit for the Cirrus Logic. I've noticed that it's not there. Someone may have removied it


 

  
  Hmm, I cannot prove it to you, but I am 99% sure, that the 2G has no CS4398 inside. One hint is that the CS4398 needs 5V. The oher hint is, that the Cirrus is a 28-pin TSSOP chip and If you go to the ifixit tear down you will not find any 28pin TSSOP.
   
  http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPod-Touch-2nd-Generation-Teardown/586/2


----------



## JamesFiiO

The Cs4398 need 5V 200mA power at least , I don't think it is used in any Portable device from Apple. In fact, we did consider to use it or WM8741, but the play time will becom very limited.


----------



## Parall3l

So whats happening with the E17 orders at mp4nation ? My order is stilling being processed.


----------



## duyu

Shipped x2  
  mp4nation is efficient
   
  Standard Shipping.


----------



## jono454

Oh wow...shipped today, estimated delivery date is tomorrow...usually when I order from sites like dealextreme or mp4 where they ship from China they take 2 weeks to 2 months to get my item. Can it really be done in 1 day =/


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Oh wow...shipped today, estimated delivery date is tomorrow...usually when I order from sites like dealextreme or mp4 where they ship from China they take 2 weeks to 2 months to get my item. Can it really be done in 1 day =/


 


  Did you choose Fedex? I guess mp4nation shipped from HongKong.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The Cs4398 need 5V 200mA power at least , I don't think it is used in any Portable device from Apple. In fact, we did consider to use it or WM8741, but the play time will becom very limited.


 


  Feiao-
   
  Glad to see you back.  How did things go at CES last week for you guys?
   
  On a segue from the RF interference query, I saw on your site a new case/frame for the iphone 4/4s which I'll be picking up here in a bit as soon as my gift card from Apple arrives.  When will that frame be available to us in the USA via Amazon?   For that matter, when will the E17 be hitting Amazon shelves?  Have you guys thought of making a similar frame for the E17, or is it so rock-solid like ClieOS stated in his review that it is unnecessary?
   
  My thought was that if they are so similar in size (iphone/E17) you guys could fashion a custom case that holds both back-to-back, versus the rubber strap.  Perhaps even with an RF shield mat between the two?  I know that's a pipe-dream in that you are marketing to a very specific population with that, but it was just an idea.
   
  Enjoying the little E6 with my ipod touch and LOD cable of yours.  Great products all around.  Pretty soon I'll be all Fiio/Apple trendy and the 'cool' uncle again, vs. my blackberry with actual buttons.  Buttons, I say!  So last decade!!!


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I tested it next to my Galaxy Ace. RF interference is so low, I almost missed it on the first listen. It has one of the best RF resistance of all the amp I have.


 

 thats is almost allI needed to know, thank you.
   
  now, if anyone is so kind to help:
  how the battery life in real life situations? 
  and lastly, what's the best place to buy it?


----------



## CJG888

Does anyone know if the E17 will work off the iPad2 via Camera Connection Kit (but without a powered USB hub)?


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> Does anyone know if the E17 will work off the iPad2 via Camera Connection Kit (but without a powered USB hub)?


 


  My understanding is that's the way you get the digital S/PDIF input into the E17, for which they supply the adaptor to connect to the E17 (but you have to get your own camera connection)


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> now, if anyone is so kind to help:
> how the battery life in real life situations?
> and lastly, what's the best place to buy it?


 
  I have not being able to use it long enough to drain the battery (I tested on PC a lot which charges it automatically). I'll do a battery test, but it might take a while.
   
  Don't really know where is the best place to buy. I guess it depends on where you are as well?
   
   
  Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> My understanding is that's the way you get the digital S/PDIF input into the E17, for which they supply the adaptor to connect to the E17 (but you have to get your own camera connection)


 
  iPad's Camera Connection kit doesn't output SPDIF. E17 can self-powered when used with camera connection kit (as USB DAC), the question whether iPad will recognize it or not.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Thanks for the correction, Clie... what, then, is the quality increase of output using the camera connection that others are talking about?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> Thanks for the correction, Clie... what, then, is the quality increase of output using the camera connection that others are talking about?


 

 The camera connection kit doesn't give you better SQ, the USB DAC you connect to it does (assuming it works).


----------



## Razor-BladE

Does anyone know when this will be coming out in the UK? And at what price?
   
  I am defintely buying the E9 and will need a DAC and portable amp. I was originally going to buy the E11 and E10 but depending on the price of this I could just go for this instead of both E10 and E11.
   
  However I've read that the E11 amp is more powerful than the E17 amp, and so I was wondering whether the E17 will be able to drive the DT770 PRO 250ohms headphones properly? And if so, will there be much difference in SQ compared to the E11?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> Does anyone know when this will be coming out in the UK? And at what price?
> 
> I am defintely buying the E9 and will need a DAC and portable amp. I was originally going to buy the E11 and E10 but depending on the price of this I could just go for this instead of both E10 and E11.
> 
> However I've read that the E11 amp is more powerful than the E17 amp, and so I was wondering whether the E17 will be able to drive the DT770 PRO 250ohms headphones properly? And if so, will there be much difference in SQ compared to the E11?


 

 Read HeadFonia's review. The E9 is not as good sounding as the E17, albeit it has more power
   
  The E17 is more powerful.....i always and have just throught he E11 was more powerful, but after looking at specs. it seems the E17 has more juice
  http://mp4nation.net/catalog/fiio-e11-portable-headphone-amplifier-p-530.html
  http://www.headphonebar.com/fiio-e17-alpen-e9/
   
  200mW @ 32 Ohms  E11
  215mW @ 32 Ohms E17
   
  Both have their pro's and con's in terms of sound from what i have read form headfonia and clieos


----------



## Razor-BladE

So the E17 will be comfortable driving the 250ohms DT770s?
   
  Reading a few reviews, they say the E11 is better sounding than the E17?
   
  Oh and I forgot to say but I need a line out for my speaker setup. What would be the best way to go about this?
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Read HeadFonia's review. The E9 is not as good sounding as the E17, albeit it has more power
> 
> The E17 is more powerful.....i always and have just throught he E11 was more powerful, but after looking at specs. it seems the E17 has more juice
> http://mp4nation.net/catalog/fiio-e11-portable-headphone-amplifier-p-530.html
> ...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> So the E17 will be comfortable driving the 250ohms DT770s?
> 
> Reading a few reviews, they say the E11 is better sounding than the E17?
> 
> Oh and I forgot to say but I need a line out for my speaker setup. What would be the best way to go about this?


 
  If the E11 can do it, then the E17 should be able to.
   
  WEll there are only 2 reviews >_< . But yes in a sense. from what i hear, its punchier and more streamlined. but the tighter soundstage and also tight bass is another pro the E17 has i guess.
   
  If you just need an amp with no use for a DAC at all. Get the E11. if you need or would like the amp. Then the E17. 
   
  what do you mean by line out? like do you have ur speakers connected directl to ur computer through a two way male 3.5mm cable? Do you wnat a line out to connect to something like the E17? Does your computer have coaxil or optical. if it does you can get a cable on monoprice and use with E17. E17 also works through USB and aux as well.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Did you choose Fedex? I guess mp4nation shipped from HongKong.


 


  Yep i chose the Fedex option..i'll be quite surprised if it does arrive tomorrow =/


----------



## JamesMcProgger

just ordered mine from MP4nation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 thanks CieOS and fellas for the help.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Sorry I don't mean reviews, just people that have said, probably just reiterating what the reviews have said then.
   
  Line out so I can connect it to my speaker amp (Cambridge Audio A5).
   
  I would use optical but it shares the port with mic in, so I'm going to have to use USB.
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> If the E11 can do it, then the E17 should be able to.
> 
> WEll there are only 2 reviews >_< . But yes in a sense. from what i hear, its punchier and more streamlined. but the tighter soundstage and also tight bass is another pro the E17 has i guess.
> 
> ...


----------



## tme110

The line out was just asked a couple pages ago but it does line out just like the e7 - by using the Fiio L7 LOD which is <$10. The e9 already has a line out if you have that.


----------



## nsx280ps

Does the E17 come with a silicone skin case like they did with the E7?


----------



## Razor-BladE

Just rememembered I can use SPDIF and mic at the same time so that makes things better.

  
  Quote: 





tme110 said:


> The line out was just asked a couple pages ago but it does line out just like the e7 - by using the Fiio L7 LOD which is <$10. The e9 already has a line out if you have that.


 


 Ah brilliant, the E17 is looking to be the one to get then when it comes out in the UK.
  Cheaper and overall better than buying the E9, E10 and E11.
   
   
  Two more questions, if you have the L7 and headphones connected, can you choose which output? Or do you have to keep swapping them around?
   
  And if I use optical in, can I still use line out, or does it have to be connected via USB?


----------



## dorino

I'm going to be upfront and say I can not be arsed to read twenty pages - but it's my understanding the E17 would serve well as a portable amp/DAC as well as a budget Amp for my laptop (my only computer that I use for musics). Is that correct?
   
  I'm not a _serious_ audiophile because I can't afford to be, but I'd like to get some good sound in my little corner of the shared house.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> I'm going to be upfront and say I can not be arsed to read twenty pages - but it's my understanding the E17 would serve well as a portable amp/DAC as well as a budget Amp for my laptop (my only computer that I use for musics). Is that correct?
> 
> I'm not a _serious_ audiophile because I can't afford to be, but I'd like to get some good sound in my little corner of the shared house.


 

 Yes except the wording is a bit off. It will serve as a portable amp for your ipod or portable music player. Because it is small, it is a portable amp and DAC that can be transfered from station to station, house to house easily. The DAC can't be used with the ipod or Walkman's or other PMP's. It is not really a budget amp for your computer. IT's a good amp and DAC for your laptop. You can plug in through USB, AUX or SPDIF. SPDIF is recommended, but if you don't have that port. USB can be used as well and should be instead of AUX. With that ur computer gets to use a Wolfson DAC and have a good 215mW @ 32 Ohm amp on it.


----------



## dorino

So, in this price range, it'd be a good contender for my extremely modest home system of laptop-with-musics-on-it?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> So, in this price range, it'd be a good contender for my extremely modest home system of laptop-with-musics-on-it?


 


  if you will use it on ur laptop and take it out portabily. Then yes.


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





dorino said:


> So, in this price range, it'd be a good contender for my extremely modest home system of laptop-with-musics-on-it?


 


  This or the E10 would be great for laptop music, it would be a lot better than the headphone out of your laptop. I don't think I'd be listening to much music in Missoula though, I'd be up in the mountains.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> This or the E10 would be great for laptop music, it would be a lot better than the headphone out of your laptop. I don't think I'd be listening to much music in Missoula though, I'd be up in the mountains.


 


  I was going to say E10 as another suggestion as well. but i remembered he also asked about portable needs as well.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> So the E17 will be comfortable driving the 250ohms DT770s?
> 
> Reading a few reviews, they say the E11 is better sounding than the E17?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I have the same cans, and so far I haven't found a portable amp under $150 that does them justice. I've tried quite a few, but the one that does them best so far is my Pico DAC/Amp - alas it's $500. I have however placed an order for the new Fiio E17 and am hoping for good results. I've also ordered the E9 to really give me some 'oomph' when using the E17 and DT770s at home. Unfortunately like me, you'll have to wait until I receive the E17 (within 2 weeks hopefully) to get the scoop on how well it works with 250 ohm cans.
   
  If you do come across an amp that fits the bill for the DT770 Pro 250s, especially if it's portable, let me know! I'm still placing my bets that the E17 will do a great job for a portable amp. As much as I like my Pico, it's still somewhat underpowered when dealing with 250 ohms. There are lots of desktop amps that will meet the need, but it's when you try to go portable that it becomes an issue.
   
  Good luck with your search!


----------



## PANGES

Hmm. I've just returned my E7 back to Amazon today due to a weird static/rattle noise coming from the left channel. Maybe instead of picking up another E7, I'll pick up an E17 instead.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





panges said:


> Hmm. I've just returned my E7 back to Amazon today due to a weird static/rattle noise coming from the left channel. Maybe instead of picking up another E7, I'll pick up an E17 instead.


 


  That would be a good idea. Since you had the E7, i would guess the E17 would be best since it has the same functions as the E7 you bought it for. The E17 from reviews...of course is significantly better than E7 on all levels


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah. Not just that, but there's little things about the E17 that are more appealing to me- like the external "lock" switch on the E17. The automatic keylock on the E7 bothered me, so I'm glad there's a physical switch this time around. Adjustable treble is also a huge plus to me. It was one of the big selling points for me on the Practical Devices XM6.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





panges said:


> Yeah. Not just that, but there's little things about the E17 that are more appealing to me- like the external "lock" switch on the E17. The automatic keylock on the E7 bothered me, so I'm glad there's a physical switch this time around. Adjustable treble is also a huge plus to me. It was one of the big selling points for me on the Practical Devices XM6.


 

 hope we can all get these in time before end of february


----------



## JamesFiiO

will release the information of the shipment in our website, facebook, twitter, etc.


----------



## Phazer

Is it possible to use a FiiO e17 with a Sansa Clip Zip? If it is, will it use DAC and AMP? And what about Galaxy S2, is it possible to use it with it?


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





phazer said:


> Is it possible to use a FiiO e17 with a Sansa Clip Zip? If it is, will it use DAC and AMP? And what about Galaxy S2, is it possible to use it with it?


 


  you can use the 3.5mm jack.
  but this won't be digital signal, so, it would not use the dac of E17


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I'd be up in the mountains.


 

 Of course! That's what I want this for. Midnight, middle of summer, 50 degree nights in a light jacket on top of Mt. Sentinel or up in the Mission area, looking at the stars, and kicking back with some music. You can keep your expensive home amplification. I want what I just described.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> Two more questions, if you have the L7 and headphones connected, can you choose which output? Or do you have to keep swapping them around?
> 
> And if I use optical in, can I still use line out, or does it have to be connected via USB?


 


  Does anybody know the answer to this?
  That's all that's stopping me from ordering from mp4nations I think.
    
   
  Quote:


agentxxl said:


> I have the same cans, and so far I haven't found a portable amp under $150 that does them justice. I've tried quite a few, but the one that does them best so far is my Pico DAC/Amp - alas it's $500. I have however placed an order for the new Fiio E17 and am hoping for good results. I've also ordered the E9 to really give me some 'oomph' when using the E17 and DT770s at home. Unfortunately like me, you'll have to wait until I receive the E17 (within 2 weeks hopefully) to get the scoop on how well it works with 250 ohm cans.
> 
> If you do come across an amp that fits the bill for the DT770 Pro 250s, especially if it's portable, let me know! I'm still placing my bets that the E17 will do a great job for a portable amp. As much as I like my Pico, it's still somewhat underpowered when dealing with 250 ohms. There are lots of desktop amps that will meet the need, but it's when you try to go portable that it becomes an issue.
> 
> Good luck with your search!


 
   
  Yeah it's annoying because I don't have a lot of money to be spending so I'm going to have to find something which does a semi decent job of it.
  Let me know how it sounds with the Fiio once you do receive them! Looking forward to hearing the results.
   
  Just thought of another question, is it possible to have the E9/E17 combo and use the SPDIF into the E17 instead of USB?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> Does anybody know the answer to this?
> That's all that's stopping me from ordering from mp4nations I think.


 

 L7 can be used with or without USB to get the line-out - in more layman term, line-out from L7 is independent of USB. You can get line-out from Coax-in or Optical-in with L7 as well. You can even use an USB adapter to power E17 when using Coax- / Optical-in to line-out and headphone-out at the same time.
   


  Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> Just thought of another question, is it possible to have the E9/E17 combo and use the SPDIF into the E17 instead of USB?


 
  Very much yes.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> Just thought of another question, is it possible to have the E9/E17 combo and use the SPDIF into the E17 instead of USB?


 

 I believe that method works, the only catch is that the S/PIDF input is on top of the E17 so your cable run will be a bit awkward compared to using the USB in from the back of the E9.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Excellent, thank you very much!
  Order going in for the E17 then!
   
  I only ask because I saw on the mp4nation website for L7 it said ''when the L7 is docked into the E7, the E7 can only be used as a USB DAC.'' so I thought it might be the same.


----------



## TigreNegrito

MP4 offered the L7 cable for about half-price ($7) when you order with the E17, which will save you about 50%


----------



## ClieOS

On extra note, I finish the battery test on E17. On volume 26 (out of 60) fed by E10's line-out with 6dB gain, it runs around 12 to 15 hours. The battery ran dry when I was away so I didn't know the exact time, but it is safe to say it is up to the 15hours spec claimed by FiiO.


----------



## PANGES

Aww. was hoping for a promised 80 hours like the E7. lol. 10-15 hours seems pretty standard for a portable amp though.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





clieos said:


> On extra note, I finish the battery test on E17. On volume 26 (out of 60) fed by E10's line-out with 6dB gain, it runs around 12 to 15 hours. The battery ran dry when I was away so I didn't know the exact time, but it is safe to say it is up to the 15hours spec claimed by FiiO.


 


  This raises a quick question I can't get a clear answer for. Does this charge over USB, and will it charge while in use?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> This raises a quick question I can't get a clear answer for. Does this charge over USB, and will it charge while in use?


 


  yes, it has this setting in the menu. you can choose to turn it off if you want. charging and in use leads to some excess hissing and noise.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> yes, it has this setting in the menu. you can choose to turn it off if you want. charging and in use leads to some excess hissing and noise.


 

 So it'd be best practice to charge them only while not in use?


----------



## Splungeworthy

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> yes, it has this setting in the menu. you can choose to turn it off if you want. charging and in use leads to some excess hissing and noise.


 

 I  was just going to ask this.  I don't plan on using this as a portable; I'm glad they put this in.   Just saw on Fiio's website that the first shipments have gone out to distributors, so be on the lookout if you want to order from Micca or Head-Direct.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> So it'd be best practice to charge them only while not in use?


 

 haha yeah.  
   


  Quote: 





splungeworthy said:


> I  was just going to ask this.  I don't plan on using this as a portable; I'm glad they put this in.   Just saw on Fiio's website that the first shipments have gone out to distributors, so be on the lookout if you want to order from Micca or Head-Direct.


 
  hmm if u don't plan on portable. other just desktop DAC's are a much better choice than this. like osme ibasso's, audinists etc


----------



## Splungeworthy

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hmm if u don't plan on portable. other just desktop DAC's are a much better choice than this. like osme ibasso's, audinists etc


 
  I know, but I really like the EQ functions of the amp, which I know is sacrilege for audiophiles.  I was looking at the D7, but no bass boost.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> yes, it has this setting in the menu. you can choose to turn it off if you want. *charging and in use leads to some excess hissing and noise.*


 

 No it is not. E17 is dead quiet even when charged and used at the same time.
   
  p/s most of the testing have finished, I am ready to write up the final review.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> No it is not. E17 is dead quiet even when charged and used at the same time.
> 
> p/s most of the testing have finished, I am ready to write up the final review.


 


  Oh sorry. I was just puttig that in general terms and not on the E17 itself. some can solve that problem. some can't
   
  Hope to read ur review


----------



## duyu

ClieOS,
   
  Have you try using the 3.5mm jack to connect E17 and E9? If so, did you notice any difference? As I remember sb said that there is an improvement connecting in this way for E7/E9, just wanna know whether it is the case for E17. Should E17 then be called pre-amp connecting in this way since the amp function has turned on? It seems that we can turn on the amp function even if E17 was connected using the docking, right? I am curious about the difference?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





clieos said:


> No it is not. E17 is dead quiet even when charged and used at the same time.
> 
> p/s most of the testing have finished, I am ready to write up the final review.


 


  That's great news! So this works as a small, portable amp and DAC for a laptop perfectly without needing to worry about the batteries! Lovely.


----------



## tme110

He did discus that 5 posts previously
  
  Quote: 





dorino said:


> This raises a quick question I can't get a clear answer for. Does this charge over USB, and will it charge while in use?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> He did discus that 5 posts previously


 


  and i answered him a page before this one. It's not bad. theres too much static in every post.


----------



## kite7

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha yeah.
> 
> hmm if u don't plan on portable. other just desktop DAC's are a much better choice than this. like osme ibasso's, audinists etc


 

  
  I disagree, much better is greatly exaggerated. Audinst MX1 is not even better than the E10 and I say this from ownership of both.  I see nothing wrong with using a portable device in a home environment at all.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kite7 said:


> I disagree, much better is greatly exaggerated. Audinst MX1 is not even better than the E10 and I say this from ownership of both.  I see nothing wrong with using a portable device in a home environment at all.


 

 i am basing this off pure reviews from headfonia. Mike prefers the audinist MX1 over the E17 which is noticeably better than the E10. ever one is different.


----------



## tim3320070

What specifically and technically would allow the E17 to sound "better" than the E10? Same DAC and USB receiver.


----------



## estreeter

Better amp ?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> What specifically and technically would allow the E17 to sound "better" than the E10? Same DAC and USB receiver.


 

 Quote:


estreeter said:


> Better amp ?


 


   
  As head-fi'ers most would note by know that specs and words don't matter. i'ts how it sounds with it in ur hands. DAC's upto $500 use the WM8740 that you can get on a fiio used for $70. IT's the amps, circuits, jacks, and all those little things that changes the sound


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Better amp ?


 


   


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> As head-fi'ers most would note by know that specs and words don't matter. i'ts how it sounds with it in ur hands. DAC's upto $500 use the WM8740 that you can get on a fiio used for $70. IT's the amps, circuits, jacks, and all those little things that changes the sound


 
  I know this, what specifics of the amp make it better? I guess I am questioning the professional review more than anything.


----------



## gsh1976

I ordered an e17 from the first pre-order and received a FedEx tracking number yesterday with an estimated delivery of today. That seemed impossible since I am on the east coast of the U.S (Delaware) but to my surprise it arrived at my office this morning.  I unpacked it and could not get it to work.  When I got home I tried it with one of my laptops and had the same problem.  There is no volume at all.


----------



## tim3320070

Did you make the default audio device and reboot your music server?


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Did you make the default audio device and reboot your music server?


 


  It is the default audio device and I have already rebooted twice.  I have no idea what I could be doing wrong.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





duyu said:


> ClieOS,
> 
> Have you try using the 3.5mm jack to connect E17 and E9? If so, did you notice any difference? As I remember sb said that there is an improvement connecting in this way for E7/E9, just wanna know whether it is the case for E17. Should E17 then be called pre-amp connecting in this way since the amp function has turned on? It seems that we can turn on the amp function even if E17 was connected using the docking, right? I am curious about the difference?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 No, I didn't try E17's headphone-out to E9. It will be double amping that way and whatever you get will be a more colored sound (though it could be more favorable regardless). E17 already has a pre-amp out, via the LO Bypass switch, so you can get the EQ working with E9 when docked. I have tried it and haven't really notice a lot of difference in SQ between LO and pre-amp out.
   


  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> What specifically and technically would allow the E17 to sound "better" than the E10? Same DAC and USB receiver.


 

 The circuits are totally different. In E10, the TE7022 feeds directly to WM8740. In E17, the TE7022 feeds into WM8805 (a SPDIF transceiver), then WM8805 feeds WM8740. They might have used two of the same chip, but it doesn't mean the implementation is the same.

  Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I know this, what specifics of the amp make it better? I guess I am questioning the professional review more than anything.


 
  The amp section on E10 only employs the AD8397 to do both voltage and current gain to drive headphone. In E17, it uses two opamps (AD8692+AD8397). One acts as pre-amp while the other acts as the power amp, much like a setup you will find on the speaker world. It is that separation of jobs that makes it a better amp, so to speak, than the 'handle-all' AD8397 in E10. Of course, you also have to consider that FiiO is able to put in better implementation on the E17 as opposed to the budget and space limited E10.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> I ordered an e17 from the first pre-order and received a FedEx tracking number yesterday with an estimated delivery of today. That seemed impossible since I am on the east coast of the U.S (Delaware) but to my surprise it arrived at my office this morning.  I unpacked it and could not get it to work.  When I got home I tried it with one of my laptops and had the same problem.  There is no volume at all.


 


  You need to be more specific than 'could not get it to work'. Does it turn on? If so, what mode it is in? You need to press the 'input' so it will be in USB-in mode for PC use.


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You need to be more specific than 'could not get it to work'. Does it turn on? If so, what mode it is in? You need to press the 'input' so it will be in USB-in mode for PC use.


 


  It does turn on and I have it set to USB.  It looks exactly the same and the one you reviewed except the SPDIF-in is not pink on mine.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> I ordered an e17 from the first pre-order and received a FedEx tracking number yesterday with an estimated delivery of today. That seemed impossible since I am on the east coast of the U.S (Delaware) but to my surprise it arrived at my office this morning.  I unpacked it and could not get it to work.  When I got home I tried it with one of my laptops and had the same problem.  There is no volume at all.


 


  1, First, make sure that E17 have enough power. 
   
  2, Try the AUX IN first, to make sure the amp section and the volume control, input function is OK. 
   
  3, Connect to PC to make sure the USB decoder is OK , take care you need to change to USB IN first.
   
  4, Test the SPDIF function at the end.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> It does turn on and I have it set to USB.  It looks exactly the same and the one you reviewed except the SPDIF-in is not pink on mine.


 


  t I just PM you and want to contact you directly by phone or MSN, skype.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> t I just PM you and want to contact you directly by phone or MSN, skype.


 


  Get um feiao... better show some of the amazing customer service I hope to expect from you guys.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> It does turn on and I have it set to USB.  It looks exactly the same and the one you reviewed except the SPDIF-in is not pink on mine.


 

 You might also want to do a reset (hole are in between headphone-out and SPDIF-in) and, I am sure you are right but it is worth checking, that you are not inserting the headphone to SDPIF-in.


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> t I just PM you and want to contact you directly by phone or MSN, skype.


 


  I sent you a PM.


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You might also want to do a reset (hole are in between headphone-out and SPDIF-in) and, I am sure you are right but it is worth checking, that you are not inserting the headphone to SDPIF-in.


 

  
  I did the reset using a pin and I am not using the SPDIF.  Tomorrow morning I will do the tests James mentioned and hopefully figure things out.


----------



## kite7

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i am basing this off pure reviews from headfonia. Mike prefers the audinist MX1 over the E17 which is noticeably better than the E10. ever one is different.


 


  Mike likes the MX1 a lot. I on the other hand think it's a good dac/amp but nothing special really. You see Mike is a reviewer so of course he is going to greatly exaggerate things that are not all that noticeable at all not to mention how easy at times it is for him to be influenced by the price of a product.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Below is what I get from gsh1976 , I post here because there are not any private information that need to protected. 
   
  "One point before I go to bed -- when I click on the volume control in the taskbar it says SPDIF interface at the top and at the bottom it says FiiO USB DAC -E17."
   
  Seems the question is because Gsh1976 select the wrong playback device. *please set the FiiO USB DAC-E17 as default Audio Playback device.*


----------



## Riku540

^ Seems a lot of people get this confused when they get their first DAC.
   
  Opening playback devices (a simple right-click on the speaker icon) while music is playing will clearly show weather or not data is being sent to the correct device.


----------



## higgsbison

MP4 nation have just informed me they ran out of units as Fiio produced less than anticipated in the first run. What a surprise. I will be cancelling my order for now.


----------



## mephiska

So I'm sorry if this question was asked before, but hopefully it's easy to answer
   
  Can I use the SPDIF input on the E17 while it's docked with the E9?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





mephiska said:


> So I'm sorry if this question was asked before, but hopefully it's easy to answer
> 
> Can I use the SPDIF input on the E17 while it's docked with the E9?


 
   
  Yes.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> MP4 nation have just informed me they ran out of units as Fiio produced less than anticipated in the first run. What a surprise. I will be cancelling my order for now.


 


  Wait until it comes to amazon maybe....


----------



## killz23

Guys I have an iBasso D2, and I think it's not making any difference when I connect it to my Macbook pro to a Denon D2000.
  Do you think E17 will be a big step up from D2?


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> MP4 nation have just informed me they ran out of units as Fiio produced less than anticipated in the first run. What a surprise. I will be cancelling my order for now.


 

  
  Same here. I was in the first batch with my order and now can't be fulfilled.  It's no headache ordering with Amazon anyway since it negates me having to pay a crapload to send the thing back from the US. The next time I'll sticking to my guns and ordering only from Amazon. Nobody else can be trusted.


----------



## paruchuribros

I am still waiting for this to appear on the Amazon.
   
  I can not find FiiO e17 yet on it.
   
  Do you guys suggest anyone else sell it from US?
   
  Please let me know.


----------



## parasitius

I wonder if I should be nervous mp4 nation hasn't sent me any email either way... I did order toward the tail end of the pre-orders, but still before their website explained about the delay on the second batch.


----------



## slaw slaw

Is the E17 useable with iPods?  I don't know anything about amps or DACs so this is probably a stupid question.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





slaw slaw said:


> Is the E17 useable with iPods?  I don't know anything about amps or DACs so this is probably a stupid question.


 

 Yes through aux in


----------



## slaw slaw

Is there any way I can use the DAC? Or would I be better getting an E11 and L9?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





slaw slaw said:


> Is there any way I can use the DAC? Or would I be better getting an E11 and L9?


 


   
  With the e17? No, e17 with use in ipod can not use dac. Only amplifier through aux in will be active. If you ONLY plan to use with an ipod. I recommend the fiio e11 in conjunction with the fiio l9. If u plan to use with computer And laptop and ipod then e17


----------



## slaw slaw

OK, thanks.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Anyone know when this is released in the UK?
  Good preorder price at mp4nation, and not in any rush so mid-end Feb is fine but just thinking about if I have any problems with it, it might be easier from a UK seller.


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Seems the question is because Gsh1976 select the wrong playback device. *please set the FiiO USB DAC-E17 as default Audio Playback device.*


 

  
  I am not following you.  If I go to control panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Audio at the top it says sound playback and underneath is the default audio device which is listed as FiiO USB DAC-E17.  I attached a picture for your reference.


----------



## ClieOS

First thing first, have you tested the AUX-in yet?


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





clieos said:


> The circuits are totally different. In E10, the TE7022 feeds directly to WM8740. In E17, the TE7022 feeds into WM8805 (a SPDIF transceiver), then WM8805 feeds WM8740. They might have used two of the same chip, but it doesn't mean the implementation is the same.
> The amp section on E10 only employs the AD8397 to do both voltage and current gain to drive headphone. In E17, it uses two opamps (AD8692+AD8397). One acts as pre-amp while the other acts as the power amp, much like a setup you will find on the speaker world. It is that separation of jobs that makes it a better amp, so to speak, than the 'handle-all' AD8397 in E10. Of course, you also have to consider that FiiO is able to put in better implementation on the E17 as opposed to the budget and space limited E10.


 
  Thank you, this is answer I was looking for (and the reason for me to buy it).


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> I am not following you.  If I go to control panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Audio at the top it says sound playback and underneath is the default audio device which is listed as FiiO USB DAC-E17.  I attached a picture for your reference.


 

 Very sorry, please help me check "
   
  1, do you see the " lock " on the screen of E17?
   
  2, can you change to other music play program like microsoft media player and set the playback device as E17?
   
  3, or you can try to try to use the test function in the audio setup menu, there should be an bottom but my PC's setup menu is different with you.


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





clieos said:


> First thing first, have you tested the AUX-in yet?


 


  I have not but will tonight when I get home from work.


----------



## duyu

Is there a user guide inside the package of E17?


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Very sorry, please help me check "
> 
> 1, do you see the " lock " on the screen of E17?
> 
> ...


 

 I'll have to try steps two and three later when I have time.  When I turn it on the word "lock" is on the screen for a millisecond and then it disappears and the screen changes to whatever input I had selected.  Attached is a picture of the screen and I apologize for the low quality.


----------



## tme110

Information already put in this thread:  There was only one run of making e17s, but now it's time for Chinese New Year.  MP4nation is the closest distributer from Fiio so they got them first.  The next run wont be until Feb and there will still be a delay after that until it works it's way to Amazon.  The product just got released so it will take some amount of time to reach each coutry's distribution system.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> I'll have to try steps two and three later when I have time.  When I turn it on the word "lock" is on the screen for a millisecond and then it disappears and the screen changes to whatever input I had selected.  Attached is a picture of the screen and I apologize for the low quality.


 
   
   
  This should be the wrong setting in your PC , because E17 can be found by your PC also it lock the clock of the music data through the USB. don't worry about it .
   
   
  BTW, it is hard to describe all the situation about how to install E17 in PC because usually it does need any operation , but as you can see, there are so many kinds of OS, like WIN XP, WIN 7, 32bit, 64bit, different language .


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> I'll have to try steps two and three later when I have time.  When I turn it on the word "lock" is on the screen for a millisecond and then it disappears and the screen changes to whatever input I had selected.  Attached is a picture of the screen and I apologize for the low quality.


 


  May I recommend you tape yourself setting up the device, upload it to Youtube, and post it here for feiao to see.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

that is some nice aluminium polished case right there ^


----------



## bowei006

I have come to think. What is the output impendance of the E17?


----------



## kite7

If it's anything like the E7 it's less than 1 ohm


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kite7 said:


> If it's anything like the E7 it's less than 1 ohm


 


  thank you, that's good then  My heapdhones are 44 Ohm and 38 Ohm so I wouldnt want the output impendance of my amp overtaking it


----------



## dexvx

Do you guys think the e17 can power the the sennheiser hd 650's?


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Do you guys think the e17 can power the the sennheiser hd 650's?


 

 Dont know but IIRC Voldemort said: "It had enough output, barely, for my HD650s listening to classical music at live levels" about the E11 =>
  maybe that helps.


----------



## dexvx

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> Dont know but IIRC Voldemort said: "It had enough output, barely, for my HD650s listening to classical music at live levels" about the E11 =>
> maybe that helps.


 


  I thought the e11 had more power (since it's an amplifier only) than the e17?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> I thought the e11 had more power (since it's an amplifier only) than the e17?


 


  i thought so too, until i saw the specs;
  215mW @ 32 Ohms  E17
  200mW @ 32 Ohms  E11


----------



## A Kennedy4

Question about the E17. What are the advantages to buying a line out cable like the L1 for use with an iPhone, compared to using the Aux port to connect the iPhone and AMP


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





a kennedy4 said:


> Question about the E17. What are the advantages to buying a line out cable like the L1 for use with an iPhone, compared to using the Aux port to connect the iPhone and AMP


 

 From a post I just wrote out half an hour ago. don't get the L1. that is obsolete. Only the L3 or L9 which uses HPC22W wire. The L9 is bought more when in use with just an amp since it is more compact
   
   
 An LOD is an Line Out Dock. These generally mean a thing (usually a cable of sorts) that allows you to bypass a specific chip in a device. It is mainly used for ipod LOD's. Which means it is a cable that looks like this. (There are sony walkman LOD's too, not popular though) LOD generally means the cable you see below and is being used with an ipod. usually when headfiers talk of the ability to bypass a chip (amp usually) with a cable or port, they just say Line out. 
 


  
 and it's purpose is to bypass the ipod's internal amplifier, it's circuits and heapdhone jack. Let me go back a bit first and explain. It is the amp, circuits, and heapdhone jack that are causing the majroity of the noticeable sound you are hearing. Most head fier's don't like it and it is known to be low quality. The LOD thus plugs into your ipod thorugh the botto of ur pod and thus it will bypass parts of your ipod that sound bad leaving you straight digitaly decoded to analogy data straight fromt the DAC. And as you might now know. since it bypased the amp and everything. you need something external that does the same thing? Yes it does. that's where these amps come in. the 3.5mm male end u see in the pic above plugs into a amp or dac or both's input side and that's it. you ipod feeds the music into the amp throught he LOD.


----------



## gsh1976

UPDATE: This afternoon at work I let it charge for several hours (even though it was probably 75% charged already) and when I got home I tested the aux input for the first time and it worked.  Then I hooked it up to a desktop I didn't try it with last night and it worked immediately.  Then I tried it with the laptop that I couldn't get it to work with last night and it worked.  I don't know what happened but I am not going to complain.  This is my first headphone DAC/AMP so I don't have anything to compare it with but to my ears it sounds nice.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> UPDATE: This afternoon at work I let it charge for several hours (even though it was probably 75% charged already) and when I got home I tested the aux input for the first time and it worked.  Then I hooked it up to a desktop I didn't try it with last night and it worked immediately.  Then I tried it with the laptop that I couldn't get it to work with last night and it worked.  I don't know what happened but I am not going to complain.  This is my first headphone DAC/AMP so I don't have anything to compare it with but to my ears it sounds nice.


 

 Glad you liked it  Anything you are hearing differnt from ur standard laptop or ipod(or dap) that you would like to post a short impression on?


----------



## A Kennedy4

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> UPDATE: This afternoon at work I let it charge for several hours (even though it was probably 75% charged already) and when I got home I tested the aux input for the first time and it worked.  Then I hooked it up to a desktop I didn't try it with last night and it worked immediately.  Then I tried it with the laptop that I couldn't get it to work with last night and it worked.  I don't know what happened but I am not going to complain.  This is my first headphone DAC/AMP so I don't have anything to compare it with but to my ears it sounds nice.


 


  How much audible difference does it make? This would be my first Amp too
   
  @bowei006 , Thanks for the informative reply! Will definately get either the L3 or L9. Thanks for the help


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





a kennedy4 said:


> How much audible difference does it make? This would be my first Amp too
> 
> @bowei006 , Thanks for the informative reply! Will definately get either the L3 or L9. Thanks for the help


 


  it makes a good one. what the LOD does is it removes dual amping and all those bad circuits. This effecitvley reduces noise, distortion, hiss and improves clarity, depth, etc. Every head-fi'er uses an LOD with their ipod. It's cheap too. Any other questions?


----------



## jono454

Just got mine today...tested it with e9 and K702's and it sounded pretty damn good. Connected to my cowon s9 with MTPC and it also sounded better than my PA2V2.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Just got mine today...tested it with e9 and K702's and it sounded pretty damn good. Connected to my cowon s9 with MTPC and it also sounded better than my PA2V2.


 


  Great to know it is better than the PA2V2 which many compare to the E11  how much better? noticeably better? How's the bass impact/responce different forom the this than the PA2V2


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Great to know it is better than the PA2V2 which many compare to the E11  how much better? noticeably better? How's the bass impact/responce different forom the this than the PA2V2


 


  Regarding that, the PA2V2 only has one setting and that's "ON" where as the E17 has so many different options and 3 different gains...i guess it all boils down to your personal choice of options. Without a doubt i definitely would choose the e17 although it's 2-3 times more costly than the PA2V2.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Regarding that, the PA2V2 only has one setting and that's "ON" where as the E17 has so many different options and 3 different gains...i guess it all boils down to your personal choice of options. Without a doubt i definitely would choose the e17 although it's 2-3 times more costly than the PA2V2.


 

 I don't think the PA2V2 supports SPDIF, looks as sexy, has USB, a wolfson WM8740, 2 amplifiers and an OLED screen.
   
   
  thanks for your short impression


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I don't think the PA2V2 supports SPDIF, looks as sexy, has USB, a wolfson WM8740, 2 amplifiers and an OLED screen.


 


  You're inferring you're unsure about this. You're not. 
   
  Anyway, glad the E17 is shaping up to be a great portable solution in this price range.


----------



## razzer001

Those that bought from us, MP4 Nation and were on preorder 1 and did not get a ship notification then unfortunately your order was not fulfilled. Our support has contacted all preorder 1 buyers whose orders did not ship, if you have not got our support email then check your spam box, we will have sent to your email address on your order. If you still can't find our email then open a new ticket at http://www.mp4nation.net/support and we will help you out.
   
  I am very sorry we could not get every ones order out.
   
   
  Also FYI if you are having issues using the E17 then do the following first:
   
  1. Disconnect from your PC (if connected).
  2. Hold the power button for about 5 seconds, it should turn on
  3. Use any mp3 player with the aux in and your choice of earphone with the HO, confirm the sound is working.
  4. Disconnect your player and connect to your PC, your PC should detect the E17 as a USB sound card
  5. Goto your audio properties and make sure the E17 is selected as the audio output method
  6. If you already had any audio apps (like windows media player) open when you connected the E17, exit the program and restart it (make sure step 5 has already been done before starting the app again).
  7. Sweet audio should be pumping through the E17 
   
  We had a few people already think they had DOA E17 as nothing would happen when they connected the E17 to their PC, but doing the above method resolved the issue and it started to work as a DAC when connected to a PC.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I don't think the PA2V2 supports SPDIF, looks as sexy, has USB, a wolfson WM8740, 2 amplifiers and an OLED screen.
> 
> 
> thanks for your short impression


 


  Having own both, I can say that PA2V2 isn't much of a competition for E17, even on SQ alone.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Having own both, I can say that PA2V2 isn't much of a competition for E17, even on SQ alone.


 


  How is it final review coming along ClieOS?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> How is it final review coming along ClieOS?


 

 I am writing another review at the same time, but it should be up in the next few days.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I am writing another review at the same time, but it should be up in the next few days.


 


  sweet.


----------



## motrix

First off... It really is amazing how it came from Hong Kong and delivery to California in one day.  But now it looks like I have a problem with mine.  IPhone 4 LOD to the E17 is flawless.  But when I tried it with my MBP through USB, set output to the Fiio E17 in my MBPS settings, restarted iTunes the sound is really distorted.  The sound seems like it was going to clear up but goes back to being really distorted again.  I tried the aux again and verified that  it works just fine.  Reconnected it to my MacBook Pro and the problem still was stll there.
   
   Any ideas of what I should try next?


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





razzer001 said:


> Those that bought from us, MP4 Nation and were on preorder 1 and did not get a ship notification then unfortunately your order was not fulfilled. Our support has contacted all preorder 1 buyers whose orders did not ship, if you have not got our support email then check your spam box, we will have sent to your email address on your order. If you still can't find our email then open a new ticket at http://www.mp4nation.net/support and we will help you out.
> 
> I am very sorry we could not get every ones order out.
> 
> ...


 

 Currently enjoying #7 massively =D


----------



## motrix

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Currently enjoying #7 massively =D


 


   
  Tried it...... Still having the same issues


----------



## jono454

Hey, i have a question for everyone that i'm not sure of. Is it better to increase the volume at the source or at the amp? What combination should be the most optimal?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





motrix said:


> First off... It really is amazing how it came from Hong Kong and delivery to California in one day.  But now it looks like I have a problem with mine.  IPhone 4 LOD to the E17 is flawless.  But when I tried it with my MBP through USB, set output to the Fiio E17 in my MBPS settings, restarted iTunes the sound is really distorted.  The sound seems like it was going to clear up but goes back to being really distorted again.  I tried the aux again and verified that  it works just fine.  Reconnected it to my MacBook Pro and the problem still was stll there.
> 
> Any ideas of what I should try next?


 
  Most like issue of the USB or sound driver on MBP. I have seen the same issue on E10 being discussed by Mac usuer as well (same TE7022 USB receiver). You might need to double check setting on your MBP to confirm it is working as intended. Also MBP has optical-out on its 3.5mm jack. You can try out the optical-in of E17 if you have toslink cable.
  
   


  Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Hey, i have a question for everyone that i'm not sure of. Is it better to increase the volume at the source or at the amp? What combination should be the most optimal?


 
  Always max out on the PC side so you are getting all the digital resolution.


----------



## Parall3l

Just checked with Mp4Nation. Apparently I was apart of pre-order two, even though when I ordered (11th) it didn't say I was going to get it in mid february. Oh well, some people in pre-order 1 is receiving it at the same time as me so I guess I can't complain too much.


----------



## plasmoic

chose the betas instead of FedEx and now it is in the post service in Hong Kong...it will be a long long journey 
  (received my n2 player +M2 phones in a month, but everything was fine with quite protective package)


----------



## ebmp19

I ordered mine on the second day of pre-order and mine have been pushed back to mid of february... either these are a massive sellout or they shafted me lol    Oh well doesn't really affect me that much as my beyers are going for repairs :-{


----------



## slaw slaw

Ordered mine today, should have it by Tuesday.  Can't wait.


----------



## parasitius

It's amazing that leaving China after 5 years and having put up with Chinese New Year, the pain in the *ss that it is, all those years, the wretched holiday still taunts me just the same! Ordered the 12th, before it said it was going to be a delayed order, and didn't get any email about it... (I had been crossing my fingers for the last 3 days that a ship notice would be coming into my email)... *sigh*


----------



## gsh1976

Quote: 





motrix said:


> But when I tried it with my MBP through USB, set output to the Fiio E17 in my MBPS settings, restarted iTunes the sound is really distorted.  The sound seems like it was going to clear up but goes back to being really distorted again.


 

 I am currently having the same problem.  It worked fine last night with my home desktop and laptop but with my work desktop the sound is very distorted.  I don't know if there is a conflict or what but everything is setup correctly.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





slaw slaw said:


> Ordered mine today, should have it by Tuesday.  Can't wait.


 


  I ordered on monday and still says "Processing"


----------



## motrix

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Most like issue of the USB or sound driver on MBP. I have seen the same issue on E10 being discussed by Mac usuer as well (same TE7022 USB receiver). You might need to double check setting on your MBP to confirm it is working as intended. Also MBP has optical-out on its 3.5mm jack. You can try out the optical-in of E17 if you have toslink cable.
> 
> 
> Always max out on the PC side so you are getting all the digital resolution.


 
   
  Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> I am currently having the same problem.  It worked fine last night with my home desktop and laptop but with my work desktop the sound is very distorted.  I don't know if there is a conflict or what but everything is setup correctly.


 
   


 Thanks for the replies.  Well it looks like it is a MBP issue.  I tried it out on my other MBP and HP Laptop and it works fine through USB.  Looks like I will need to pick up one of those toslink cables for my other MBP.  Any recommendations for which toslink to get?  I would imagine there should be no differences.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





slaw slaw said:


> Ordered mine today, should have it by Tuesday.  Can't wait.


 


  What?


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





motrix said:


> Thanks for the replies.  Well it looks like it is a MBP issue.  I tried it out on my other MBP and HP Laptop and it works fine through USB.  Looks like I will need to pick up one of those toslink cables for my other MBP.  Any recommendations for which toslink to get?  I would imagine there should be no differences.


 
   
  For the MBP try these cables. It's what I ordered for my Macbook Pro.
   
  1.5ft: http://bit.ly/xf6jZp
  3ft: http://bit.ly/wgNSGG
  6ft: http://bit.ly/wDBnao
  
  Then one of these adapters:
  http://bit.ly/AFboJW
   
  I'm pretty sure the E17 comes with the adapter though.


----------



## tim3320070

.


----------



## soundfrenzy

Looking to get my first DAC/AMP.  The E17 looks great.  But is it really worth getting if I'm pairing it with ~$50 ear/headphones?  I have Brainwavz M2, MEE a151, and Superlux 668b.  I primarily listen via ipod (I'd get a LOD) and my laptop/work computer.
   
  Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## TigreNegrito

Consider it your first step in a long, long list of upgrades, much to your wallet's chagrin.  That way you'll have something to drive your first set of audiophile-grade cans whenever you get them.  But, yes, you'll get some semblance of SQ upgrade and it'll pair with all your listed sources, so it's quite flexible in that sense.


----------



## soundfrenzy

I also have a Dayotn DTA-1 Amp hooked up to my main bookshelf speakers (ADS L400).  I play my ipod/laptop through this system as well.  Would the E17 make much of a SQ difference in this setup?  My guess is yes, but I'd like to make sure.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





motrix said:


> Any recommendations for which toslink to get?  I would imagine there should be no differences


 

 It shouldn't make much difference as long as they are decently built, but you should use the shortest cable you need.


----------



## intendedUser

So since people seem to be having issues with getting the e17 to work with their MBP through a USB connection, toslink seems like the next option. But how exactly does that work? The e17 comes with an adapter to connect to the 3.5mm port, but what about the MBP side? And is all of this going to affect SQ in any way?
   
  I only have an MBP and this does NOT sound like good news.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> So since people seem to be having issues with getting the e17 to work with their MBP through a USB connection, toslink seems like the next option. But how exactly does that work? The e17 comes with an adapter to connect to the 3.5mm port, but what about the MBP side? And is all of this going to affect SQ in any way?
> 
> I only have an MBP and this does NOT sound like good news.


 
  Most MBP works, some don't - I assume it is most likely a problem within the OS and can be fixed via software or update. But I am not a Mac user so you need to find out for yourself.
   
  All you need to get is a toslink (optical) cable. All MBP already have toslink output build into the 3.5mm headphone jack (and thus why it shines red inside) so you must make sure to get a toslink cable with the 3.5mm adapter (E17 only comes with one and you might need another one for MBP as well). Some toslink cable only comes with the more common square connector but not the 3.5mm adapter. So get a toslink cable that come with two adapter) Once you connected them both, set them in the right setting and E17 will start singing. Using toslink is actually better than USB (in theory anyway) as you can get 24/192 via SPDIF but only 24/96 via USB. In practice, I don't you will notice any difference.


----------



## motrix

Quote: 





clieos said:


> It shouldn't make much difference as long as they are decently built, but you should use the shortest cable you need.


 
   
  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> For the MBP try these cables. It's what I ordered for my Macbook Pro.
> 
> 1.5ft: http://bit.ly/xf6jZp
> 3ft: http://bit.ly/wgNSGG
> ...


 


  The E17 does not come with an adapter unfortunately.  The links you provided is toslink-toslink.  Is there a cable that I can use that does not require an adapter?  Aren't both connections, E17 and MBP, 3.5mm?  Do I need a mini- toslink cable and use the adapter on the E17 SPDIF input?


----------



## motrix

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Most MBP works, some don't - I assume it is most likely a problem within the OS and can be fixed via software or update. But I am not a Mac user so you need to find out for yourself.
> 
> All you need to get is a toslink (optical) cable. All MBP already have toslink output build into the 3.5mm headphone jack (and thus why it shines red inside) so you must make sure to get a toslink cable with the 3.5mm adapter (E17 only comes with one and you might need another one for MBP as well). Some toslink cable only comes with the more common square connector but not the 3.5mm adapter. So get a toslink cable that come with two adapter) Once you connected them both, set them in the right setting and E17 will start singing. Using toslink is actually better than USB (in theory anyway) as you can get 24/192 via SPDIF but only 24/96 via USB. In practice, I don't you will notice any difference.


 

 Thanks ClieOS!!!!....as I was writing my post you seemed to have already answered my question
   


  Quote: 





motrix said:


> The E17 does not come with an adapter unfortunately.  The links you provided is toslink-toslink.  Is there a cable that I can use that does not require an adapter?  Aren't both connections, E17 and MBP, 3.5mm?  Do I need a mini- toslink cable and use the adapter on the E17 SPDIF input?


----------



## Jack C

For customers in the US interested in purchasing a E17, we have posted this info in the FiiO sponsor forum:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/591410/us-availability-for-fiio-e17#post_8071050
   
  Jack


----------



## intendedUser

Thanks ClieOS! Much appreciated. And motrix, I would love to find out how the toslink cable works out for you; or if you ever get your MBP to work through USB.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





motrix said:


> Thanks for the replies.  Well it looks like it is a MBP issue.  I tried it out on my other MBP and HP Laptop and it works fine through USB.  Looks like I will need to pick up one of those toslink cables for my other MBP.  Any recommendations for which toslink to get?  I would imagine there should be no differences.


 


   
  I recommend the fancy version of the cables on monorpice. in the pics by clieos and what fiio said. the adapter was included. shorter cable the better. anything under 15ft shouldnt make a diff.
   
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2


----------



## parasitius

Not sure why everyone keeps recommending him toslink to toslink cables, when you can get one that goes spdif to toslink without an adapter on Amazon. Personally I went ahead with the adapter for versatility -- if I need that cable in the future for temporarily hooking some other device in I can pop off the adapter. However, for portable, definitely I would want the less pieces = the better.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





parasitius said:


> Not sure why everyone keeps recommending him toslink to toslink cables, when you can get one that goes spdif to toslink without an adapter on Amazon. Personally I went ahead with the adapter for versatility -- if I need that cable in the future for temporarily hooking some other device in I can pop off the adapter. However, for portable, definitely I would want the less pieces = the better.


 

 price. the cable's don't look as good as monoprices. i know tht looks have nothing to do with performance. but those thick fancy monoprice cables.....ya know. and..portability? You think i'm gonna use SPDIF while i am out? umm.. AUX in with an LOD thank you


----------



## motrix

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Thanks ClieOS! Much appreciated. And motrix, I would love to find out how the toslink cable works out for you; or if you ever get your MBP to work through USB.


 

 I think I have found out what was causing the issues with my MBP at home and the distortion.  I plugged it in again when I got home and it was working great, no issues what-so-ever.  Then I connected my portable USB drive into my MBP and the distortion came back.  I disconnected the USB drive and swapped cables, and when I used the USB cable on my E17 the distortion came back.  I put the USB cable that came with the E17 back on and it was back to functioning flawlessly.
   
  I can't explain it but I seemed to have isolated the problem to 1 particular USB cable.
   
  Anyway, I went ahead and ordered a few sets of toslink-toslink cables and adapters to use in the future.


----------



## ClieOS

Glad to know it is working for you now. It is often surprising to see problem arises from some seamlessly harmless place and the solution is almost too simple


----------



## bowei006

I'm thinking of this:
  MBP->3.5mm to toslink adapter-->Monoprice fancy 6Ft toslink cable-->E17 included SPDIF adapter
   
  I'm going to guess that the Macbook pro's optical capabilites are not effected through the audio out port that is usually used with 3.5mm male cables right? My desktop also has an SPDI/F out but I would like to use my MBP for audio more than my desktop.
   
  Of course..while playing BF3..i'll use the E17  through optical, but only then


----------



## ClieOS

Looks fine to me.


----------



## bdub77

Hey guys, first post here.  Heads up for Nokia owners - I just received my E17 and unfortunately it won't work with the N8 via USB OTG.  I'm quite disappointed since this was the main reason I bought it.  Now I just need to decide if I like its sound better than my E10 and E11 or it may be up for sale immediately.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bdub77 said:


> Hey guys, first post here.  Heads up for Nokia owners - I just received my E17 and unfortunately it won't work with the N8 via USB OTG.  I'm quite disappointed since this was the main reason I bought it.  Now I just need to decide if I like its sound better than my E10 and E11 or it may be up for sale immediately.


 
   
  Of _all_ phones something running Symbian would be my least likely candidate for this to work. I'd doubt it'd even work with Android phones, and they've got a _lot_ wider plug'n'play support.


----------



## bdub77

The N8, among other Nokia products, has gained fame among audiophiles for supporting digital audio out via USB, something Android products are not capable of (yet).  I was hoping that the E17 would be supported because the N8 had no problem with previous Fiio products (the E7 and D5).


----------



## Matter

Wow, this looks very exciting! Anyone gonna do a full review on it soon?


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





matter said:


> Wow, this looks very exciting! Anyone gonna do a full review on it soon?


 


  Mike at Headfonia already did, and ClieOS is planning on having his full review out quite soon.


----------



## gsh1976

I still have not had any luck getting the e17 to work with my work desktop and unfortunately it is a Dell Dimension E-521 so I do not have the option of going the toslink route.  Since I mainly purchased the e17 to use at work this is a problem.  I was wondering if a powered USB would possibly help?  If not, would an e9 enable me to use the e17?


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bdub77 said:


> Hey guys, first post here.  Heads up for Nokia owners - I just received my E17 and unfortunately it won't work with the N8 via USB OTG.  I'm quite disappointed since this was the main reason I bought it.  Now I just need to decide if I like its sound better than my E10 and E11 or it may be up for sale immediately.


 

  
  I'll give you a small Cuban child and a box of pretzels...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Mike at Headfonia already did, and ClieOS is planning on having his full review out quite soon.


 

 you beat me too it 
   


  Quote: 





bdub77 said:


> The N8, among other Nokia products, has gained fame among audiophiles for supporting digital audio out via USB, something Android products are not capable of (yet).  I was hoping that the E17 would be supported because the N8 had no problem with previous Fiio products (the E7 and D5).


 
  it has gained fame, but i still rarely hear about Nokia's around here. I do know of it's digital out capabilities though so it's at least not THAT unknown or anything...but then again. im a lurker


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

I'm getting that horrible spending feeling again...thank god amazon have a 1 month return facility. Goodbye e10, it was fun


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> I'm getting that horrible spending feeling again...thank god amazon have a 1 month return facility. Goodbye e10, it was fun


 


  awww. was it from Headfonia's review  lol? Or did you also need the functions of the e17?
   
  Well as we say...
*"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Yes, pretty much nailed it on the head; gushing review, direct comparison to my beloved (ex) and I do very much like the sound of the acute +/- bass boost.
  Poor wallet lucky me! 
  Not too fond of the pricing though, I'd see about $120/£99.999 to be more of a sweet spot.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> Yes, pretty much nailed it on the head; gushing review, direct comparison to my beloved (ex) and I do very much like the sound of the acute +/- bass boost.
> Poor wallet lucky me!
> Not too fond of the pricing though, *I'd see about $120/£99.999 to be more of a sweet spot.*


 

  
  haha i knew it.
   
  You might not be fond of the price but it is incredibly fair for what it is offering and the reviews comming for it. It's like taking the E10, E7, and E11 and combining it into one thing with awesome option controls  for..only $150? After a PM with an contributor that owns both the Audinist MX1 and the E10, he said that the E10 in his opinion was noticeably better then the MX1, he said that Mike @ headfonia tends to write reviews with price based in his mind a lot(his last comment on the E17 review page, might attest to this) and that he couldn't recommend the E10 at $80..like how could it beat something almost 3X it's price. and he might also like the audinist's more professional look too. factors factors factors.who knows.


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha i knew it.
> 
> You might not be fond of the price but it is incredibly fair for what it is offering and the reviews comming for it. It's like taking the E10, E7, and E11 and combining it into one thing with awesome option controls  for..only $150? After a PM with an contributor that owns both the Audinist MX1 and the E10, he said that the E10 in his opinion was noticeably better then the MX1, he said that Mike @ headfonia tends to write reviews with price based in his mind a lot(his last comment on the E17 review page, might attest to this) and that he couldn't recommend the E10 at $80..like how could it beat something almost 3X it's price. and he might also like the audinist's more professional look too. factors factors factors.who knows.


 
   
  I see the problem with the comparison, and audiophiles being audiophiles lol. 
  It does seem though that the Fiio range of dap's/amps is moving a bit quickly, it wasn't long ago I was considering the E7/E9 then the E10 comes along and now this?! Fair enough some are dedicated amps, but from other amp/dac manufacturers I've seen like JSA they seem to be moving (/dominating) very quickly. I'd hope that for my $150 I'm not going to find that in a few months time they've undercut themselves and me!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> I see the problem with the comparison, and audiophiles being audiophiles lol.
> It does seem though that the Fiio range of dap's/amps is moving a bit quickly, it wasn't long ago I was considering the E7/E9 then the E10 comes along and now this?! Fair enough some are dedicated amps, but from other amp/dac manufacturers I've seen like JSA they seem to be moving (/dominating) very quickly. I'd hope that for my $150 I'm not going to find that in a few months time they've undercut themselves and me!


 

 FiiO has been pulling something that I can reminese with/from Apple Inc. Right now is a great political, cultural, militarial, and ecnonomical revolution in China which is expecting my homeland to reach the rank of superpower by 2020. FiiO is just and has been taking a fine oppurunity and developing and name for themselves and going along with this new revolution in prices, cost of living, how much they make and stuff, and quality to bring us these goods. They have been blitzing the market, and as you can see. they are doing it effectivley from our Head-Fi'ers prespectives. Their products are of good quality and their support is good. 
   
  I have never heard of JSA. im mainly in just heapdones and amps and dac's which is probably why. FiiO is also dominating. I may have no right to say this and not enough of current market status to make this claim. but ibasso has been hit really..really hard in every one of their sectors from FiiO..really hard. The majority of newbiews have been recommended both ibasso and fiio from what i have seen and done. and most go with fio. the reviews and luscious free marketing from reviewsers and us on head fi isn't helping their situation either :/
   
  And..i bet in a few months it will. lol. probably not for a while. like half a year. fiio is currently known to start production soon on the succesor of the E9..basically the true docking buddy of the E17. i doubt their number of enginners and workers. albeit unknown can make another one so soon. We could follow pattern, but at this curret time. FiiO will have more or less filled up the whole sector from affordable amps and LOD;s to just DAC' and a desktop amp and then an allin one. and all have been released(E6,E11,E10,E9) in less than a year from now if not just half a year. They could come and do the E11's succesor next after the E9's..but with the e11's huge market responce on head-fi..is that needed? but then again, Fiio kkeeps on wowing. who knows. The E6, E7, have just been upgraded. the E9 is the next. and the E11 just came out a little bit ago... hmm the E11 is probably next. or they might move in another direction and advance forward even more...$200 Amp anyone?


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> FiiO has been pulling something that I can reminese with/from Apple Inc. Right now is a great political, cultural, militarial, and ecnonomical revolution in China which is expecting my homeland to reach the rank of superpower by 2020. FiiO is just and has been taking a fine oppurunity and developing and name for themselves and going along with this new revolution in prices, cost of living, how much they make and stuff, and quality to bring us these goods. They have been blitzing the market, and as you can see. they are doing it effectivley from our Head-Fi'ers prespectives. Their products are of good quality and their support is good.
> 
> I have never heard of JSA. im mainly in just heapdones and amps and dac's which is probably why. FiiO is also dominating. I may have no right to say this and not enough of current market status to make this claim. but ibasso has been hit really..really hard in every one of their sectors from FiiO..really hard. The majority of newbiews have been recommended both ibasso and fiio from what i have seen and done. and most go with fio. the reviews and luscious free marketing from reviewsers and us on head fi isn't helping their situation either :/
> 
> And..i bet in a few months it will. lol. probably not for a while. like half a year. fiio is currently known to start production soon on the succesor of the E9..basically the true docking buddy of the E17. i doubt their number of enginners and workers. albeit unknown can make another one so soon. We could follow pattern, but at this curret time. FiiO will have more or less filled up the whole sector from affordable amps and LOD;s to just DAC' and a desktop amp and then an allin one. and all have been released(E6,E11,E10,E9) in less than a year from now if not just half a year. They could come and do the E11's succesor next after the E9's..but with the e11's huge market responce on head-fi..is that needed? but then again, Fiio kkeeps on wowing. who knows. The E6, E7, have just been upgraded. the E9 is the next. and the E11 just came out a little bit ago... hmm the E11 is probably next. or they might move in another direction and advance forward even more...$200 Amp anyone?


 
   
  I meant Ray Samuel Audio, sorry.
  Yeah, its scary and almost too much for the average buy and go person to handle. Not only a change in buying patterns but more frequent questions posted by newbies on the same topics!
  Its good to see though that the increased spotlight from (headfi etc) has let to better products, the digizoid zo2 comes to mind and the progress they've made with that..you don't happen to know when Digizoid are releasing anything new? Zo3 perhaps?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> I meant Ray Samuel Audio, sorry.
> Yeah, its scary and almost too much for the average buy and go person to handle. Not only a change in buying patterns but more frequent questions posted by newbies on the same topics!
> Its good to see though that the increased spotlight from (headfi etc) has let to better products, the digizoid zo2 comes to mind and the progress they've made with that..you don't happen to know when Digizoid are releasing anything new? Zo3 perhaps?


 


  Ray samluels ahh. i have just started eharing about them. they don't yet hace the price to performance ratio that FiiO is dominating this immediate $sub $150 sector and influuncing of up to $250 sector yet. but are there.
   
  What is too scary? and yeah..most newbies are regular consumers..and thus it's really really easy. you just keep on repeating the same thing. I just say E11 a lot since they are all consumer bass heads who want audiophile clairty
   
  Digizoid. despite great initial presence i have had some not so appealing news and view of them :/ They suffered form many revisions and due to so much people. can't reach everyone at the same time so people get left out a lot. Not to mention the unpublished power specs :/ also some newbie's and seasoned head fi'ers were baffled to note that (from a private conversatoin i had) the ZO2 did NOT have enough "Actual" amping power and would lose it's clarity, detail and what not and just start clipping a lot (he didn't know what it was but it was clear that it was probably clipping due to amp) when used with higher or high impendance headphones. I gave him some threads and summary of the e11. and bang. a day later. a letter on how the E11 was exactly what he wanted :/


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Ray samluels ahh. i have just started eharing about them. they don't yet hace the price to performance ratio that FiiO is dominating this immediate $sub $150 sector and influuncing of up to $250 sector yet. but are there.
> 
> What is too scary? and yeah..most newbies are regular consumers..and thus it's really really easy. you just keep on repeating the same thing. I just say E11 a lot since they are all consumer bass heads who want audiophile clairty
> 
> Digizoid. despite great initial presence i have had some not so appealing news and view of them :/ They suffered form many revisions and due to so much people. can't reach everyone at the same time so people get left out a lot. Not to mention the unpublished power specs :/ also some newbie's and seasoned head fi'ers were baffled to note that (from a private conversatoin i had) the ZO2 did NOT have enough "Actual" amping power and would lose it's clarity, detail and what not and just start clipping a lot (he didn't know what it was but it was clear that it was probably clipping due to amp) when used with higher or high impendance headphones. I gave him some threads and summary of the e11. and bang. a day later. a letter on how the E11 was exactly what he wanted :/


 

 I get a better feel from a company like RSA as they seem to take more time in releasing an amp and have fewer upgrades. 
  Not scary as such just the though in the back of your head that in a few months yours will be outdated, similar to how apple work..small revisions at a time. When I see the E11 I just don't see the quality, looks a bit naff too to my eyes (maybe the apple snob coming through).. and I know its about audio quality but still, look at the head stage arrow..gorgeous piece of kit!
   
  The case with most starter companies I imagine, still credit for acknowledging the faults and moving quickly. Would you say the ZO2 is more novelty compared with something like the head stage arrow?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> I get a better feel from a company like RSA as they seem to take more time in releasing an amp and have fewer upgrades.
> Not scary as such just the though in the back of your head that in a few months yours will be outdated, similar to how apple work..small revisions at a time. When I see the E11 I just don't see the quality, looks a bit naff too to my eyes (maybe the apple snob coming through).. and I know its about audio quality but still, look at the head stage arrow..gorgeous piece of kit!
> 
> The case with most starter companies I imagine, still credit for acknowledging the faults and moving quickly. Would you say the ZO2 is more novelty compared with something like the head stage arrow?


 


  i get what you mean, but they can't make it smaller. you also have to add in price. And yeah that was good looking. I am a Apple snob too, but i can't point out every idiosynracy of an $60 product i see :/
   
  haha yeah. starter companies do that really quickly. espeically very active one's. I can't say anything about the ZO2 or headstage arrow. i don't own either, i have only heard stuff and know a bit and can summarize what i have read on the Zo2. i know nothing on the headstage arrow.
   
  However the question on is the ZO2 is a novelty. i might be able to answer that. in my opinion, no it is not a noevelty. mike's and other reviewsersof the countour and smart vektor technology is very positive. it just needs to dual amp. if you check out digizoid's fb page, many do it. however, the ZO2 has been recommended to too many people with high impendance headphones that dn't have a lot of cash, and to them...a $100 flava flav booster ain't gonna do them any good if the ZO2 starts clipping and flattnens everyting on them.


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Yeah, from reading up a bit its heading in the right direction just not there yet hence why I asked about the ZO3..just a bit iffy atm. Dual amp? Sounds expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gsh1976 said:


> I still have not had any luck getting the e17 to work with my work desktop and unfortunately it is a Dell Dimension E-521 so I do not have the option of going the toslink route.  Since I mainly purchased the e17 to use at work this is a problem.  I was wondering if a powered USB would possibly help?  If not, would an e9 enable me to use the e17?


 
   
  E9 won't fix the problem as it still relies on E17's USB receiver to handle the communication with the PC. Any Windows should be a straight plug'n'play. If it is not, then it is very likely the Windows driver is corrupted or your setting is wrong. To be sure, just try E17 on another PC to confirm. You might also want to try another USB port, disconnect other USB device, reinstall the audio driver, etc.
  

  
  Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> ....  It does seem though that the Fiio range of dap's/amps is moving a bit quickly, it wasn't long ago I was considering the E7/E9 then the E10 comes along and now this?! Fair enough some are dedicated amps, but from other amp/dac manufacturers I've seen like JSA they seem to be moving (/dominating) very quickly. I'd hope that for my $150 I'm not going to find that in a few months time they've undercut themselves and me!


 

 E7 has been in the market for 2 years now, E9 is almost a year. E10 is over 3 months now. The problem for FiiO, where its product are mainly for the mass market instead of niche audiophile, is that they can't price the product's price high enough to deter clone and competition to come into the same play field. RSA (and similar amp maker) has much less problem with cloner and competition as they are targeting only a small group of user who are willing to pay big buck and deal with them directly. High end amp maker also don't really compete with each other, much like Ferrari and Porsche both have their own buyer. For FiiO however, their main strategy is to offer bang for the buck by mass production. But once the market of a certain product becomes too profitable, other manufacturer will join in and offer something better (a good example will be how iBasso targets E7 with D-zero). The best way for FiiO is to keep moving forward so the competition and cloner never get the chance to catch up. When they do, FiiO will have moved to the next product. It is pretty much the same strategy of most large electronic manufacturers, like Sony and Panasonics.
   
  p/s: you will surprised how much of these expensive amps are not 2 or 3 times better than the cheaper amp that cost half (or less) their price. If you have a chance, go to a meet and audition them for yourself.

  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Digizoid. despite great initial presence i have had some not so appealing news and view of them :/ They suffered form many revisions and due to so much people. can't reach everyone at the same time so people get left out a lot. Not to mention the unpublished power specs :/ also some newbie's and seasoned head fi'ers were baffled to note that (from a private conversatoin i had) the ZO2 did NOT have enough "Actual" amping power and would lose it's clarity, detail and what not and just start clipping a lot (he didn't know what it was but it was clear that it was probably clipping due to amp) when used with higher or high impendance headphones. I gave him some threads and summary of the e11. and bang. a day later. a letter on how the E11 was exactly what he wanted :/


 
  digiZoid is just a very small company. Like any small startup, they need to face a lot of problem in R&D and manufacturing. FiiO has been to that place as well, just that it is before your time here in the forum.
   
  Actually ZO2.3 has pretty good power output. Not a lot by any mean, but it is more than suffice for most headphone that are not difficult to drive. The problem is people start to try it on 300ohm or 600ohm headphone that are clearly not the designer's intent.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> Yeah, from reading up a bit its heading in the right direction just not there yet hence why I asked about the ZO3..just a bit iffy atm. Dual amp? Sounds expensive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 hah yeah, you're getting there  PM me or anything if you have any questions. I may be able to answer, or may not; depends. I get a good number so feel free
  Dual amping is not as expensive as you think. it's just choosing two amps to provide you the synergy and power that you need to enjoy your music. for he ZO2. most just use a higher powered amp to drive it . I guess the E11 would be a good choice here. however, that's only thinking in terms of both are bassy amps and the E11 has power. actual synergy wise..i woulnd't know. it's just a thought
   


  Quote: 





clieos said:


> digiZoid is just a very small company. Like any small startup, they need to face a lot of problem in R&D and manufacturing. FiiO has been to that place as well, just that it is before your time here in the forum.
> 
> Actually ZO2.3 has pretty good power output. Not a lot by any mean, but it is more than suffice for most headphone that are not difficult to drive.


 


  yeah, i know they are a small startup, that's why i didn't try to get too much into marketing and all. they are good for where they are. and yeah,...haha i'm a green horn on this forum in terms of companies and such  
   
  ZO2 from what i have seen and read has enough to drive regular headphones. but my PM'er had Ultraonse Pro 900's and the ZO2's are then inadequete. both the E11 and ZO2 have thier pro's from what i see/hear. it just seems like you said. fiio needs to target en mass. so their $65 E11 is able to just do the job cheaper than the ZO2. provide power and tonality. You could say digitzoid is heading towards a enthusaist market. i just didn't like how so many newbies went into the ZO2 and i almost did without any warning that it's not enough to drive some HD650's or other high impendance one's...i guess it's my fault. im too used to FiiO


----------



## justingregoire

I'm interested in how the E17 pairs with my HD598s and Macbook Pro.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





justingregoire said:


> I'm interested in how the E17 pairs with my HD598s and Macbook Pro.


 


  I can't answer that, but i can do this:
   
 *"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*


----------



## justingregoire

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I can't answer that, but i can do this:
> 
> *"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*


 


   
  Haha. Yeah, my wallet is already mad at me and I've just begun.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





justingregoire said:


> Haha. Yeah, my wallet is already mad at me and I've just begun.


 
  haha yeah. and even worse..you are on a thread about a product!!
   
  So can anyone answer justingregoire question of E17 with HD598 or at least E11 with HD598 as that's also a pretty valid one. the E17 works with the MBP though. you need an extra 3.5mm to toslink adapter though
  
  i looked around a bit on HD598 with E11. there's not really any upfront and personal comments on HD598 users that know their stuff commenting on if the synergy is good. Google it. The E17 can definatley "Drive" the HD598's as they arn't high Ohm or sensitive. but actual performance i can't say. See if you can find an HD598 owner that is at least an 100+ head fi'er that also has E11


----------



## justingregoire

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha yeah. and even worse..you are on a thread about a product!!
> 
> So can anyone answer justingregoire question of E17 with HD598 or at least E11 with HD598 as that's also a pretty valid one. the E17 works with the MBP though. you need an extra 3.5mm to toslink adapter though
> 
> i looked around a bit on HD598 with E11. there's not really any upfront and personal comments on HD598 users that know their stuff commenting on if the synergy is good. Google it. The E17 can definatley "Drive" the HD598's as they arn't high Ohm or sensitive. but actual performance i can't say. See if you can find an HD598 owner that is at least an 100+ head fi'er that also has E11


 


 Thank you! I'll take some more time browsing more forums as well.


----------



## dorino

I can comment on the wallet thing. Since being a member here I've been convinced to spend over three hundred dollars modifying my 100 dollar pair of headphones (wood cups and a budget recable, have committed money to a pair of Magnum drivers as well as buy a 30 dollar case off ebay to keep them safe from those gnomes that visit my room at night and knock things over, and finally an amp/DAC [this one, coincidentally!] which isn't being figured into the 300 dollar figure). I can't afford any of this, mind you... I'm making a conscience decision to eat ramen noodles for a month or two to get some good quality.
   
  Thankfully, as a college student, I'm used to this.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





justingregoire said:


> I'm interested in how the E17 pairs with my HD598s and Macbook Pro.


 


  I am interested in pairing the E17 and the 598 as well   Though not an MBP....


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I am interested in pairing the E17 and the 598 as well   Though not an MBP....


 

 For what it's worth, the E17 doesn't really care what it's plugged into and as long as you're using WASAPI or similar on a PC it'd be identical since the E17, as a DAC, essentially replaces your source's soundcard. Just bypass that damned Windows kernel mixer.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> I can comment on the wallet thing. Since being a member here I've been convinced to spend over three hundred dollars modifying my 100 dollar pair of headphones (wood cups and a budget recable, have committed money to a pair of Magnum drivers as well as buy a 30 dollar case off ebay to keep them safe from those gnomes that visit my room at night and knock things over, and finally an amp/DAC [this one, coincidentally!]). I can't afford any of this, mind you... I'm making a conscience decision to eat ramen noodles for a month or two to get some good quality.
> 
> Thankfully, as a college student, I'm used to this.


 
  lol that last part  hahah 
  So...was it worth modyfying ur heapdhones?
  
   


  Quote: 





dorino said:


> For what it's worth, the E17 doesn't really care what it's plugged into and as long as you're using WASAPI or similar on a PC it'd be identical since the E17, as a DAC, essentially replaces your source's soundcard. Just bypass that damned Windows kernel mixer.


 

 there's the aspect of synergy and waht genre's you listen to. From experience and from reviews, FiiO is generally a universal sounding product, but we should first hear his genre's what he wants, and price range before we just plain out say E17


----------



## higgsbison

dorino said:


> I can comment on the wallet thing. Since being a member here I've been convinced to spend over three hundred dollars modifying my 100 dollar pair of headphones (wood cups and a budget recable, have committed money to a pair of Magnum drivers as well as buy a 30 dollar case off ebay to keep them safe from those gnomes that visit my room at night and knock things over, and finally an amp/DAC [this one, coincidentally!]). I can't afford any of this, mind you... I'm making a conscience decision to eat ramen noodles for a month or two to get some good quality.
> 
> Thankfully, as a college student, I'm used to this.




You spent $300 modifying $100 cans. why not just spend $300 on phones you actually like? Its not like theres not a can for every style especially in that price range.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> You spent $300 modifying $100 cans. why not just spend $300 on phones you actually like? Its not like theres not a can for every style especially in that price range.


 
   
  I'm a huge fan of Grado headphones and the Grado sound. In order of the events: I bought the SR-80i, bought wooden cups and a recable, and now I'm buying a pair of magnum drivers (essentially giving me new headphones)
   
  I do like the headphones. I always did. I think I've gotten more out of modification than I would have spending 300 dollars on new 'phones - I didn't decide to mod because I was dissatisfied. Quite the opposite.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> there's the aspect of synergy and waht genre's you listen to. From experience and from reviews, FiiO is generally a universal sounding product, but we should first hear his genre's what he wants, and price range before we just plain out say E17


 
   
  Not what I was talking about. I was speaking in regards to using a Mac or a PC as a source.


----------



## scottie584

> Originally Posted by *HiggsBoson*
> You spent $300 modifying $100 cans. why not just spend $300 on phones you actually like? Its not like theres not a can for every style especially in that price range.


 
   
   
   
   
  Maybe because he enjoys making headphones to his own preferences and tastes?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Not what I was talking about. I was speaking in regards to using a Mac or a PC as a source.


 


  Well from my knowledge. It wouldn't make a diff. Using SPDI/F on PC and Mac would bypass the majority of the computer's components and just give you that straight digital data. PC's generally have a optical port and Mac's use their 3.5mm headphone jack output also as an optical out. I have read articles on super audiophilism where hard drives and components in ur computer matter in how the music sounds with SSD's and less components being more preferable. This is generally inaudible to us.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Well from my knowledge. It wouldn't make a diff. Using SPDI/F on PC and Mac would bypass the majority of the computer's components and just give you that straight digital data. PC's generally have a optical port and Mac's use their 3.5mm headphone jack output also as an optical out. I have read articles on super audiophilism where hard drives and components in ur computer matter in how the music sounds with SSD's and less components being more preferable. This is generally inaudible to us.


 
  That's what I said.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> That's what I said.


 


  did you? I thought you were just asking. My B then


----------



## WhiteFox01

I've bought this in order to use them along with my HE-400, but the Fiio E17 only has a 3.5 mm jack.
   
  Does it come with an adapter from 6.35 to 3.5mm or will I have to purchase this on my own?


----------



## peternguyen

I just got the E17 today that I ordered from a local online shop called Noisy Motel. After plugging it into my PC, I made sure the audio device selected was the Fiio and I was relieved to hear sound coming out with no issues. I played around with the settings and had a good listen to some music and the sound is just amazing. I really haven't had any experiences with any other DACs or amps so I cannot make any comparisons, but all I can say is that I am extremely pleased with the E17.
   
  One thing to note was that in the gain settings, I have all three modes (0/6/12), although earlier in this thread I believe it was said that USB input will only allow for a gain of 0 or 6. Anyone else notice this with their E17 or am I missing something?
   
  Being that the E17 for me will be for desktop use, will there be any issues with leaving it plugged into my computer via USB permanently?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> ...  One thing to note was that in the gain settings, I have all three modes (0/6/12), although earlier in this thread I believe it was said that USB input will only allow for a gain of 0 or 6. Anyone else notice this with their E17 or am I missing something?
> 
> Being that the E17 for me will be for desktop use, will there be any issues with leaving it plugged into my computer via USB permanently?


 
  You are right. The prototype I received earlier has the 12dB gain disable on USB-in (probably because they fear that the output might clip the amp). But it seems FiiO has enable the 12dB gain on USB-in for the retail unit.
   
  It should be okay to connect it permanently to PC. But take note that the battery won't be used and, like all Li-ion battery, it is not healthy for the battery in the long run. If you can, try draining the battery at least once per month so it gets some proper charging cycle. This will prolong the battery life.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





whitefox01 said:


> I've bought this in order to use them along with my HE-400, but the Fiio E17 only has a 3.5 mm jack.
> 
> Does it come with an adapter from 6.35 to 3.5mm or will I have to purchase this on my own?


 

 You need to supply your own. Only a small hand full of portable amp comes with a 1/4' jack, and E17 is not one of them.


----------



## peternguyen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You are right. The prototype I received earlier has the 12dB gain disable on USB-in (probably because they fear that the output might clip the amp). But it seems FiiO has enable the 12dB gain on USB-in for the retail unit.
> 
> It should be okay to connect it permanently to PC. But take note that the battery won't be used and, like all Li-ion battery, it is not healthy for the battery in the long run. If you can, try draining the battery at least once per month so it gets some proper charging cycle. This will prolong the battery life.


 

 Thanks, ClieOS. Would you be able to explain a little bit about how gain works and when it is best used?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Thanks, ClieOS. Would you be able to explain a little bit about how gain works and when it is best used?


 
  Gain is basically the amplification factor for voltage of the signal. Voltage is what controls the volume. Adjusting volume is basically adjusting voltage of the signal. At 0dB gain, the amp doesn't amplify the voltage / volume. So basically you are listening to the same volume as the source if you max out on E17's volume (60/60). This is not to say E17 isn't doing anything - it still output current to the headphone and provides dampening, which (hopefully) will improve the SQ. At 6dB gain, it means the E17 output (at max) will be 6dB higher than the input (and to give you an idea, 3dB is doubling the signal)。 Same principle goes for 12dB gain setting as well.
   
  In general, the lesser the gain the better as amplifying signal always add distortion. The higher the gain, the more distortion there will be. So the basic is, if you have a very high input (say a 2Vrms line-out from a desktop source), then 0dB gain is actually all you will need. For iPod and such, 6dB will do. If you have a particularly weak source or you are not getting enough volume for your hard-to-drive headphone, then use the 12dB setting.


----------



## T4st

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Gain is basically the amplification factor for voltage of the signal. Voltage is what controls the volume. Adjusting volume is basically adjusting voltage of the signal. At 0dB gain, the amp doesn't amplify the voltage / volume. So basically you are listening to the same volume as the source if you max out on E17's volume (60/60). This is not to say E17 isn't doing anything - it still output current to the headphone and provides dampening, which (hopefully) will improve the SQ. At 6dB gain, it means the E17 output (at max) will be 6dB higher than the input (and to give you an idea, 3dB is doubling the signal)。 Same principle goes for 12dB gain setting as well.
> 
> In general, the lesser the gain the better as amplifying signal always add distortion. The higher the gain, the more distortion there will be. So the basic is, if you have a very high input (say a 2Vrms line-out from a desktop source), then 0dB gain is actually all you will need. For iPod and such, 6dB will do. If you have a particularly weak source or you are not getting enough volume for your hard-to-drive headphone, then use the 12dB setting.


 
  So. Just for check my understanding.
  This means on any headphone (yuin pk1, AKG K702, any headphone with any impedance )
  if volumn=30@gain=6dB is loud enough then it should always be better than gain=12dB volumn=20(or whatever that is equally loud).
  
  then volumn=60 gain=0  >is better than> volumn= 40 gain=6dB >is better than> volumn=25 gain=12dB
  right?


----------



## spongeworthy

If I use the E17 using S/PDIF out from my Titanium HD, will I be able to preserve the 3D/EAX positional audio effects?  If I'm just listening to music, will having the sound card connected to the E17's DAC have any adverse effects?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





t4st said:


> ...  if volumn=30@gain=6dB is loud enough then it should always be better than gain=12dB volumn=20(or whatever that is equally loud).


 
  Theoretically, yes.
  
   
  Quote: 





t4st said:


> then volumn=60 gain=0  >is better than> volumn= 40 gain=6dB >is better than> volumn=25 gain=12dB
> right?


 

 No. For most amps, the optimum zone for performance is usually at the mid of the volume pot. Say the volume goes from 0 to 60, the amp most likely will best behave at 15 to 45. Too low, channels balance becomes an issue (though not a problem for E17 as it has digital volume control). Too high and distortion (and sometime current) becomes an issue. So you should set the amp in a way that you are using half of the max volume at most of the time. If you need to set volume to 60 at 0dB, then it is better to use 40 at 6dB.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





spongeworthy said:


> If I use the E17 using S/PDIF out from my Titanium HD, will I be able to preserve the 3D/EAX positional audio effects?  If I'm just listening to music, will having the sound card connected to the E17's DAC have any adverse effects?


 
  I think the answer to both of those is one and the same. Using the E17 through USB or SPDI/F will bypass the sound card or any set audio device on ur computer. To preserve 3D/EAX on ur Titanium HD and to use the E17 JUST to amplify the sound. You would need to get a dual way male 3.5mm cable. and use the E17 in AUX mode (so like an E11 or just an amp) 
  When listening to music, i will guess the E17 has better DAC, and basically components for music then the Titanium HD. Some if not half of the sound cards i see use their own DAC they made. While the DAC;s they made aren't bad. Audiophile DAC's like the Wolfson are usually prefered by audiophiles and for adio.I don't remember what my Wolfson equiped iPod's sound like, but i have plenty of Cirrus Logic chips all around the house.
   
  so basically. when gaming, if you just need to amplify sound. connect through AUX on the E17. when listening to music just use SPDI/F and use the E17 as your external "sound card" if you don't. now that you know this. Is the E17 still worth it to you?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





spongeworthy said:


> If I use the E17 using S/PDIF out from my Titanium HD, will I be able to preserve the 3D/EAX positional audio effects?  If I'm just listening to music, will having the sound card connected to the E17's DAC have any adverse effects?


 

 Most likely not. Sound effect is usually handled by the sound card processor, which will not be used with E17. If you already have a pretty good sound card, I don't think you will need an external DAC.


----------



## spongeworthy

Oh, I was under the impression that the sound card would do all the audio processing for the 3D effects, and the DAC on the E17 would replace the DAC on the sound card. I've been reading around, and it seems some people do this to get the best of both worlds.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I think the answer to both of those is one and the same. Using the E17 through USB or SPDI/F will bypass the sound card or any set audio device on ur computer. To preserve 3D/EAX on ur Titanium HD and to use the E17 JUST to amplify the sound. You would need to get a dual way male 3.5mm cable. and use the E17 in AUX mode (so like an E11 or just an amp)
> When listening to music, i will guess the E17 has better DAC, and basically components for music then the Titanium HD. Some if not half of the sound cards i see use their own DAC they made. While the DAC;s they made aren't bad. Audiophile DAC's like the Wolfson are usually prefered by audiophiles and for adio.I don't remember what my Wolfson equiped iPod's sound like, but i have plenty of Cirrus Logic chips all around the house.
> 
> so basically. when gaming, if you just need to amplify sound. connect through AUX on the E17. when listening to music just use SPDI/F and use the E17 as your external "sound card" if you don't. now that you know this. Is the E17 still worth it to you?


----------



## underhysteria

bookmarked


----------



## spongeworthy

Well if the soundcard+ DAC worked, I could just give my brother my Titanium HD, and take his cheapo x-fi xtreme gamer to use with the DAC. Thereby, I could get the benefits of the cheapo soundcard's DSP and using the E17's superior DAC, as well as the amp since I'm looking around for some high end headphones. These threads seem to suggest that an external dac+ sound card would work. Is the E17 an exception?
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/583299/can-sound-card-dsp-be-carried-over-s-pdif
http://www.head-fi.org/t/484672/question-about-using-both-external-dac-and-sound-card
http://www.head-fi.org/t/523171/sound-card-upgrade-or-adding-an-external-dac
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Most likely not. Sound effect is usually handled by the sound card processor, which will not be used with E17. If you already have a pretty good sound card, I don't think you will need an external DAC.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





spongeworthy said:


> Oh, I was under the impression that the sound card would do all the audio processing for the 3D effects, and the DAC on the E17 would replace the DAC on the sound card. I've been reading around, and it seems some people do this to get the best of both worlds.


 

 hmmm. but then if you plug the E17 in through USB or SPDI/F....it will bypass everything on the soundcard and thus make the soundcard irrelevant :/


----------



## spongeworthy

Did you happen to read my last post? The people in those threads explain it better than me but, connecting the E17 through USB will bypass the soundcard. But connecting the E17 through S/PDIF from the sound card will take the digital signal with all the DSP effects and carry it on to the DAC effectively bypassing only the sound card's DAC. I just want to be 100% sure this will work on the E17 before I even think about buying it.
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hmmm. but then if you plug the E17 in through USB or SPDI/F....it will bypass everything on the soundcard and thus make the soundcard irrelevant :/


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





spongeworthy said:


> Did you happen to read my last post? The people in those threads explain it better than me but, connecting the E17 through USB will bypass the soundcard. But connecting the E17 through S/PDIF from the sound card will take the digital signal with all the DSP effects and carry it on to the DAC effectively bypassing only the sound card's DAC. I just want to be 100% sure this will work on the E17 before I even think about buying it.


 


  I hapened to read it, but didn't get what you meant. this post explained it better. hmmm going through SPDI/F on the soundcard? I thought SPDI/F just patches striaght digital signal through. :/ if what you say does happen. you will need to come back and tell me the results


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





spongeworthy said:


> Is the E17 an exception?


 

 I guess it depends on the soundcard you are using. Most sound card I know output untamed SPDIF, some do output processed SPDIF. In the later case, you will get the sound effect with E17 as E17 doesn't care whether the signal has been processed or not. As long as it is standard 2 channels SPDIF format, the DAC inside will decode it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I guess it depends on the soundcard you are using. Most sound card I know output untamed SPDIF, some do output processed SPDIF. In the later case, you will get the sound effect with E17 as E17 doesn't care whether the signal has been processed or not. As long as it is standard 2 channels SPDIF format, the DAC inside will decode it.


 

 that makes a lot more sense


----------



## raizetcity

can we use this awsome amp with the iriver hp140 through the the optical ?


----------



## underhysteria

Possibly a stupid question but why is it not possible to use the E17 as a dac when connected to the lineout of your mp3 players (ipod, walkman and etc)? I know the fiio performs as an amp but why not a dac?


----------



## Danji

Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> Possibly a stupid question but why is it not possible to use the E17 as a dac when connected to the lineout of your mp3 players (ipod, walkman and etc)? I know the fiio performs as an amp but why not a dac?


 

  
  Because the DAC (digital-analog-converter) section needs digital input, most players have only analog line out.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





danji said:


> Because the DAC (digital-analog-converter) section needs digital input, most players have only analog line out.


 


  Adding to that. The LOD on the ipod's and iphones is still an analog line out. IT is possible to get a straight digital line out but would require Apple encryption codes. Fostex, and Cypher labs and some more have these encryption codes(after buying them off Apple) allowing u to use their own DAC's  (the fostex hp1 and cypher solo is only on apple devices though)


----------



## underhysteria

In this set up
   
  laptop usb -- > L7 connected to E17 --> speakers
   
  The E17 works as a DAC because it receives the digital input via the usb connected to the laptop?

  
  Quote: 





danji said:


> Because the DAC (digital-analog-converter) section needs digital input, most players have only analog line out.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





raizetcity said:


> can we use this awsome amp with the iriver hp140 through the the optical ?


 

 Sure. I don't see why not.
   


  Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> In this set up
> 
> laptop usb -- > L7 connected to E17 --> speakers
> 
> The E17 works as a DAC because it receives the digital input via the usb connected to the laptop?


 
  Yes. E17 will act as USB DAC for sampling rate up to 24bit / 96kHz.


----------



## Splungeworthy

Regarding the e17/e9 pairing:  when docking the e17 and setting it to preamp output, how do you set the volume of the e17? Do you max it out and then use the e9's volume control? In this configuration, does the usb cable from the computer go into the e17 or the e9? How about the gain settings on the e9?


----------



## murph65

I plan on purchasing my first amp tomorrow so i have a question about the E17 please!
   
    For "now", i will be using it with my Android phone so can i still use the E17 EQ settings with the 3.5 to 3.5 cable or does this only work using a LOD??
   
                Thank You


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





splungeworthy said:


> Regarding the e17/e9 pairing:  when docking the e17 and setting it to preamp output, how do you set the volume of the e17? Do you max it out and then use the e9's volume control? In this configuration, does the usb cable from the computer go into the e17 or the e9? How about the gain settings on the e9?


 

 You should set the E17 to relatively high (>55/60) at 0 gain, then use E9 to control than volume and gain. The USB cable can only be connected to E9 since E17's USB port will be covered by E9.
   

  
  Quote: 





murph65 said:


> For "now", i will be using it with my Android phone so can i still use the E17 EQ settings with the 3.5 to 3.5 cable or does this only work using a LOD??


 
  Yes, it will work.


----------



## murph65

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Yes, it will work.


 

           FAB - Thanks!


----------



## Gofre

Is anybody aware of any UK retailers that will be carrying the E17? None of the sellers on FiiO's website have it listed yet, even for preorder.


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





gofre said:


> Is anybody aware of any UK retailers that will be carrying the E17? None of the sellers on FiiO's website have it listed yet, even for preorder.


 


  advancedmp3players are taking pre-orders I think, £99 plus delivery, getting stock on the 2nd Feburary!


----------



## Gofre

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> advancedmp3players are taking pre-orders I think, £99 plus delivery, getting stock on the 2nd Feburary!


 


  Excellent, straight after payday! Thanks [=
  It's also nice to see us brits coming out with a fair result on the exchange rates =P


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





gofre said:


> Excellent, straight after payday! Thanks [=
> It's also nice to see us brits coming out with a fair result on the exchange rates =P


 


  I know, caught me by surprise too! Had to put a preorder in there myself..looking forward to it


----------



## EddieE

OK I've searched the thread but it's a long one so apologies if I missed this -
   
  When in preamp mode is its lineout 2vrms at max volume?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





eddiee said:


> OK I've searched the thread but it's a long one so apologies if I missed this -
> 
> When in preamp mode is its lineout 2vrms at max volume?


 

  
  In pre-amp mode with volume 60/60 and gain 0dB, it measures around 1v. With gain 6dB, about 1.95v. In line-out mode, around 1.65v. Yes, they are no the standard 2vrms, but not that many portable device uses that standard anyway. Even iPod's line-out is 0.5v.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

the more I read about the E17 the more excited I am to get it. FiiO really put a lot of features into this thing


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> the more I read about the E17 the more excited I am to get it. FiiO really put a lot of features into this thing


 
  same with me. The only problem is i'm not pre ordering. I'm just waiting for Micca to get it and hopefully put it up on Amazon -__- 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I just feel better buying and getting shipped from U.S and Amazon. Previous interations without Amazon as the middle buyer with products from the PRC have left me severley disapointed. Not that i can't get any help or anything. but the amount of effort and time and calling it takes to do things. 
   
  Wishlist for this year:
  E17 - more or less definatley going to buy
  UE TF10 - will buy when it's $99 again. don't know if i have small ears,
   
  Future purchases:
  Denon AHD 2000 for a cheap price. hopefully $200 new?  
   
  ClieOS has reviewed the UE TF10's already and as he knows. it is a steal at a sub $100 price range...new with Comply tips and what not. I just need to (clean) and then test out IEM's and hopefully be at least a medium


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> same with me. The only problem is i'm not pre ordering. I'm just waiting for Micca to get it and hopefully put it up on Amazon -__-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1
   
  This plus I have $120 in Amazon credit waiting around, lol.  But I always get it through them if I can.  No need to even pay return shipping if there is any kind of issue


----------



## Melvins

Would you say that this is worth double the price of the e10? As in, when being compared to the e10


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





melvins said:


> Would you say that this is worth double the price of the e10? As in, when being compared to the e10


 


 It depends on whether you'll need the extra features or not. But as an overall product, my answer is 'yes'.


----------



## Melvins

what about as just a DAC and amp


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





melvins said:


> what about as just a DAC and amp


 

  
  If it is only going to be used as a desktop USB DAC, I do think E10 make better financial sense.


----------



## Melvins

haha thanks for making me feel better about my purchase


----------



## LuckyAndroid

Hello,
   
  Do you know where is it possible to buy it when you live in France ?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

So after reading this entire thread.. sigh.
   
  I have one question with regard to the FiiO E17:
   
  If I use the FiiO E17 as a DAC/AMP from my PC to my IEMs, do I need the E9?  Will the E17 provide enough power to drive my IEMs without the need for an E17/E9 combo from my PC?  I do not have any large cans that would require a larger E9.  I dont want to spend money on something that will collect dust on my desk.
   
  FiveThreeEcho


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> If I use the FiiO E17 as a DAC/AMP from my PC to my IEMs, do I need the E9?  Will the E17 provide enough power to drive my IEMs without the need for an E17/E9 combo from my PC?  I do not have any large cans that would require a larger E9.  I dont want to spend money on something that will collect dust on my desk.


 
  No, you don't need the E9 to drive IEM (unless you have a custom 600ohm IEM, but I doubt that). E17 has plenty of power, just not as much as E9.


----------



## wh85

Am deciding on getting a portable amp, would a pico slim be more worth it then the e17? I know that both are in a totally different price range, am just hoping for insights if the extra amount of cash is worth it for the difference in SQ.


----------



## slaw slaw

Just got it this morning.  Really enjoying it so far.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





slaw slaw said:


> Just got it this morning.  Really enjoying it so far.


 

 what's ur impression? Slightly more detailed? 
   worth every penny?


----------



## slaw slaw

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> what's ur impression? Slightly more detailed?
> worth every penny?


 


  Fresh out of the box, it's definitely an upgrade, I'll have to see how it grows on me over the next few hours.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





slaw slaw said:


> Fresh out of the box, it's definitely an upgrade, I'll have to see how it grows on me over the next few hours.


 

 what other amps and or DAC's hve u used or tried?   And thank you for posting your impressions. you may not know it but many people are looking at that pic and also itching to know right now


----------



## slaw slaw

This is my first amp and DAC so a review on sound would leave much to be desired.
   
  It pairs very nicely with my Beyerdynamic DT440, which is quite warm and relaxed on it's own.  The Fiio E17 brings it closer to the ears, with an improvement in the impact of bass and a more frontal sounding presentation, all while keeping the open, airiness of the DT440, which is what I love about it.  
   
   
  The amp itself, is very light but feels very strong, I don't see it breaking in the near future.
   
  Any questions, feel free to PM me.


----------



## bravo4588

Quote: 





luckyandroid said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do you know where is it possible to buy it when you live in France ?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 for the moment http://mp4nation.net/catalog/fiio-e17-alpen-dac-headphone-amplifier-preorder2-p-664.html?number_of_uploads=0 is the only bet.
   
  amazon.fr has all the other fiio products.
  pixmania.com sells just the amps & DACs(none of the LODs/interconnects) for a bit higher price.
   
  no other retailers as far as I know!


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





wh85 said:


> Am deciding on getting a portable amp, would a pico slim be more worth it then the e17? I know that both are in a totally different price range, am just hoping for insights if the extra amount of cash is worth it for the difference in SQ.


 

 I tried the Pico slim quite some time ago (can't remember it the clearly anymore). To me, that much money should be better spend on full size portable (which will give you better return), so I get the StepDance instead and I never regret about my decision.


----------



## peternguyen

Does anyone know what it means when you switch the input to USB and the text "LOCK" appears momentarily on the screen?


----------



## underhysteria

Will the E17 have any effect on the batt life of the portable if used as an amp? Quite afraid if it drains the battery..


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> Will the E17 have any effect on the batt life of the portable if used as an amp? Quite afraid if it drains the battery..


 


  will using the E17 as an amp have an effect on battery life? Of course it will. I guess using the DAC with a laptop will use even more power as you are using the USB reciever or the SPDIF receiver along with the WM8740 DAC and then the two op amps also. but since u are using it with laptop battery life isn't much of an issue. using E17 as an amp will of course drain battery. you can not use a battery powered device and hope it doesn't use any power...if that is what you are asking


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





peternguyen said:


> Does anyone know what it means when you switch the input to USB and the text "LOCK" appears momentarily on the screen?


 
  It means it has detected an USB connection and 'lock' into the signal. You can equal it to 'USB Enable'.
  
   
   
  Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> Will the E17 have any effect on the batt life of the portable if used as an amp? Quite afraid if it drains the battery..


 

 Purely used as an amp (AUX-in) or SPDIF DAC (Opt-in and Cox-in), E17 won't drain power from the source. It will drain power as USB DAC (USB-in) from your PC, but you can stop it from doing so by disable the USB charging in menu.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just pre-ordered the E17 on the weekend.  Supplier was suppose to get then on the 23rd but I haven't seen any updates.  I have the E10 and use it with Senn HD-25's & v-Moda M-80's but find the volume control too finicky.  I'm hoping that the digital volume will provide a greater range (like the E7).
  From what I've read, I'm sure I won't be disappointed.  Looking forward to getting it in.


----------



## duyu

My E17 is now stuck in Singapore...the standard shipping of mp4nation is really slow.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





duyu said:


> My E17 is now stuck in Singapore...the standard shipping of mp4nation is really slow.


 
  That's why they put free fed-ex priority on par with 30-40 dollars earbuds!


----------



## bowei006

still waiting for micca availbility on amazon
   
  ahhh nvm!! it's here! on micca store !!! 
   
  just ordered from the store


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> still waiting for micca availbility on amazon
> 
> ahhh nvm!! it's here! on micca store !!!
> 
> just ordered from the store


 

 Well tell them to get it on Amazon!  I have some credit to use!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Well tell them to get it on Amazon!  I have some credit to use!


 


  i wanted to wait for amazon too but i couldn't anymore. Micca's deal was not only good but better than MP4 nations. It gives you a free FiiO shirt. A free 3Ft Toslink cable with mini adapter end. an extra mini adapter and then reduced prices on headphones, LOD's, and amps of which i got the PL11's for $10. the PL11's are similar to the Sennheiser CX300II's but since the Sennheiser's are twice as much, the reviews said they liked the PL11's if you want a quick summary.


----------



## intendedUser

Just ordered the E17 from Micca. Ooooooooo. A giddiness in my head


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Just ordered the E17 from Micca. Ooooooooo. A giddiness in my head


 

 you too heehhehe. i have that too


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





dorino said:


> That's why they put free fed-ex priority on par with 30-40 dollars earbuds!


 


  That's true.
  But normal shipping speed from HK to US is within 2weeks. So, it seems worth to wait two extra weeks.
  But it is just strange that the package is now in Singapore.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> That's true.
> But normal shipping speed from HK to US is within 2weeks. So, it seems worth to wait two extra weeks.
> But it is just strange that the package is now in Singapore.


 


  Micca is worth it more. It's about less than a week shipping with free goodies


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i wanted to wait for amazon too but i couldn't anymore. Micca's deal was not only good but better than MP4 nations. It gives you a free FiiO shirt. A free 3Ft Toslink cable with mini adapter end. an extra mini adapter and then reduced prices on headphones, LOD's, and amps of which i got the PL11's for $10. the PL11's are similar to the Sennheiser CX300II's but since the Sennheiser's are twice as much, the reviews said they liked the PL11's if you want a quick summary.


 


  I would say it is a good deal in Micca, but mp4nation is not bad too. The price was just 127 (with a 5%off coupon code). 
  But I have to cross my finger on the shipping.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> I would say it is a good deal in Micca, but mp4nation is not bad too. The price was just 127 (with a 5%off coupon code).
> But I have to cross my finger on the shipping.


 


  i can't wait 2+ weeks plus the time it takes for them to get their second batch and ship..mid february...


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i can't wait 2+ weeks plus the time it takes for them to get their second batch and ship..mid february...


 


  completely understand
   
  I'm still finding a better source than my laptop. The fan of my laptop is too noisy... Hopefully, I can find one which is portable too, but currently there is still no cheap solution...


----------



## gohanssjn

Darn it all I am tempted to buy it at Micca now and ignore my Amazon credit....


----------



## koremora

Yeah, I cancelled my mp4nation ordered and grabbed one from Micca. Not having to wait 3+ weeks is worth the extra 12 bucks imo.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





duyu said:


> completely understand
> 
> I'm still finding a better source than my laptop. The fan of my laptop is too noisy... Hopefully, I can find one which is portable too, but currently there is still no cheap solution...


 

 What are you looking for in a laptop/what do you have now, if you don't mind me asking? The best portable laptop for the price, IMO, is the ThinkPad x120e. Google it. Definitely not a netbook


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





koremora said:


> Yeah, I cancelled my mp4nation ordered and grabbed one from Micca. Not having to wait 3+ weeks is worth the extra 12 bucks imo.


 

 haha yeah. ....it's actually 5 weeks as of right now. they start shipping mid february. add another 2-3 weeks for delivery.
   


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Darn it all I am tempted to buy it at Micca now and ignore my Amazon credit....


 


  .....is the free T-Shirt to show ur non conformity, free Toslink Cable, and adapter and bundled headphone and amps and lods with reduced prices and 5 day shipping enough to entice you ?


  Quote: 





duyu said:


> completely understand


 
  hah the guys above do too


----------



## mister2d

Thanks guys for alerting that Micca Store had this in stock. My order is placed (again). Hopefully this one won't be cancelled too.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Thanks guys for alerting that Micca Store had this in stock. My order is placed (again). Hopefully this one won't be cancelled too.


 


  what happened to the last one?


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> what happened to the last one?


 

 My guess: It ended up getting delayed until mid-February.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> My guess: It ended up getting delayed until mid-February.


 


  o i thought he was refering to the Micca store and not MP4 nation  dornio..u order one?


----------



## gohanssjn

To anyone that has the E17: is there any background hiss at all?  That's the one thing I cannot stand in a component; that very faint background hiss in silent parts of songs.
   
  The reason (besides my credit) for waiting for Amazon is their easy and cost-free returns when something is wrong.  If there is no hiss, then I will order from Micca instead and let my wife have the Amazon credit for around the apartment


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





dorino said:


> What are you looking for in a laptop/what do you have now, if you don't mind me asking? The best portable laptop for the price, IMO, is the ThinkPad x120e. Google it. Definitely not a netbook


 


  I mean portable music player with a digital output


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> To anyone that has the E17: is there any background hiss at all?  That's the one thing I cannot stand in a component; that very faint background hiss in silent parts of songs.
> 
> The reason (besides my credit) for waiting for Amazon is their easy and cost-free returns when something is wrong.  If there is no hiss, then I will order from Micca instead and let my wife have the Amazon credit for around the apartment


 

 i think CLIEOS or mike from headfonia would have reported if there was.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> o i thought he was refering to the Micca store and not MP4 nation  dornio..u order one?


 
  Planning on it. Probably will soon. Going to see if they pop up anywhere else in the next week... I'm not too interested in pre-order bonuses I'll never use (toslink? Bitch, I've got a USB port) so there's no rush.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Planning on it. Probably will soon. Going to see if they pop up anywhere else in the next week... I'm not too interested in pre-order bonuses I'll never use (toslink? Bitch, I've got a USB port) so there's no rush.


 

  
  USB? I got a SPDIF port so i can do 24/192! ha lol good fun


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i think CLIEOS or mike from headfonia would have reported if there was.


 


  Yeah, but I doubt I can return this once opened, so I feel compelled to ask.


----------



## nOoneNL

my apologies if anyone asked before, but any ideas on how this will do with a DT 700 - 80 Ohm + (Sony DEJ2000 or 925) ?
  Will it make a good combo?


----------



## hartphoto

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Yeah, but I doubt I can return this once opened, so I feel compelled to ask.


 

 Micca Store does have a 30 day return policy, as well as a 3 day 'Significantly Not as Described' policy.  Also, the purchase goes through Paypal, which is very pro-consumer driven...
   
  FWIW, I went ahead and pulled the trigger with Micca Store, and bought about 10 minutes after they tweeted the product being available....really looking forward to replacing my old mSEED Labs Faith amp, and getting a DAC all in one.
   
  I don't expect anything any different from what ClieOS and the Headphonia review describe....or I will use their return policy (like I did last week with Digizoid and the Z02v3).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> Micca Store does have a 30 day return policy, as well as a 3 day 'Significantly Not as Described' policy.  Also, the purchase goes through Paypal, which is very pro-consumer driven...
> 
> FWIW, I went ahead and pulled the trigger with Micca Store, and bought about 10 minutes after they tweeted the product being available....really looking forward to replacing my old mSEED Labs Faith amp, and getting a DAC all in one.
> 
> I don't expect anything any different from what ClieOS and the Headphonia review describe....or I will use their return policy (like I did last week with Digizoid and the Z02v3).


 
  Thank you very much. Their site isn't very user friendly. I could only find ratings and info and know they are trusted since i hear of them on head fi. they have a head fi account. and that they are trusted on ebay as a top seller and popular on Amazon  thank you
   
  I dont expect any diff either. and yeah. i was initially looking at the digizoid's but actual owners reviews ad hwat i have seen and heard got me to decide against it


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> To anyone that has the E17: is there any background hiss at all?


 
  Early clieOS said that the "E17 is dead quiet even when charged and used at the same time."


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Early clieOS said that the "E17 is dead quiet even when charged and used at the same time."


 


  I missed that.  Thank you


----------



## hartphoto

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thank you very much. Their site isn't very user friendly. I could only find ratings and info and know they are trusted since i hear of them on head fi. they have a head fi account. and that they are trusted on ebay as a top seller and popular on Amazon  thank you
> 
> I dont expect any diff either. and yeah. i was initially looking at the digizoid's but actual owners reviews ad hwat i have seen and heard got me to decide against it


 
  All of that factored in the purchase from Micca Store 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  ClieOS doesn't know it directly (until now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I've bought off of his recommendations (during my infrequent journey on Head-Fi) over the years since I've joined.
   
  My problem with the Digizoid was a bit different (although my second issue was the 'compacted soundstage', which may have been resolved...).  Every amp/tuner/piece of audio equipment I own starts off at a volume of zero (no sound).  This wasn't the case with the Z02v3 that I received.  It did not have a 'zero' volume setting.  Using the LOD, it was already too loud for my use (sometimes going to sleep).  My iPod/iPhone is quieter on the first volume setting out of the headphone jack, than the Z02v3 was connected to the LOD, and then it's lowest volume setting on the low gain setting, while connected to my UE TF10s.  Using my mSEED Labs Faith amp in this config, it's an even lower volume.
   
  I really think with the E17, and the EQu app (on the iPhone/iPad), I'm going to be as close to 'eargasm' as it's going to get for me (for both portable and desktop) without being silly with my $.


----------



## gohanssjn

If only my 598 had a 1/8" jack instead of a 1/4" to save another cable, lol.
   
  But I think a Micca order is in the cards tonight.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> All of that factored in the purchase from Micca Store
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha yeah. their site had no user reviews on the products and FAQ's and stuff were just bland and not there.
   
  My viewage of Digizoid from a user that i helped that also owned it was that it didn't have enough power. as you can see form digizoid's fb page. many dual amp it to drive their headphones. $100 just to tone it a bit is not what i am willing to pay for it
   
  haha i hope i get an eargasm too. and since u have bought off clieos before and like their recommendations. i guess u will be happy with this too 
   


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> If only my 598 had a 1/8" jack instead of a 1/4" to save another cable, lol.
> 
> But I think a Micca order is in the cards tonight.


 

 598's don't have 1/8" jack!!!???
   
  Hahah micca!! let's go! i heard of one user geting an 404 error page though..might be sold out. don't know.


----------



## Mikesin

Are you getting 'ITEM LODGED INTO DESTINATION MAIL HUB LOCAL POSTAL AGENT'? 
  
  Quote: 





duyu said:


> My E17 is now stuck in Singapore...the standard shipping of mp4nation is really slow.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Are you getting 'ITEM LODGED INTO DESTINATION MAIL HUB LOCAL POSTAL AGENT'?


 


  ITEM LODGED INTO DESTINATION MAIL HUB LOCAL POSTAL AGENT 20/Jan/2012 16:05:58 SINGAPORE


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> USB? I got a SPDIF port so i can do 24/192! ha lol good fun


 


  Were do you get 24/192(music)? LOL


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Were do you get 24/192(music)? LOL


 


  haha i have one song. Got from HD TRacks.  but anyway. Toslink. i'll stick with that  BF3 should also be amazing with it


----------



## metsat

Ok, a dumb question...is it possible to use the E17 via the usb-port on my iMac without the battery getting drained after officially 15h?


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





metsat said:


> Ok, a dumb question...is it possible to use the E17 via the usb-port on my iMac without the battery getting drained after officially 15h?


 

 Yes, it should charge over USB while in use/not in use (unless you tell it not to)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





metsat said:


> Ok, a dumb question...is it possible to use the E17 via the usb-port on my iMac without the battery getting drained after officially 15h?


 


  the battery on the E17? Yes, just allow charging through USB. i remember hearing there is really close to no hiss on the E17 even if you do this. oh and in case u don't know. having an amp plugged in charging in use is not better. misconception that being plugged in equals more power. all tht does is add in the possibility of hiss, which happens on some amps.


----------



## metsat

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> the battery on the E17? Yes, just allow charging through USB. i remember hearing there is really close to no hiss on the E17 even if you do this. oh and in case u don't know. having an amp plugged in charging in use is not better. misconception that being plugged in equals more power. all tht does is add in the possibility of hiss, which happens on some amps.


 

 Ok, thanks...another question...do you guys know of any u.s store that ships internationally (to sweden) that has the E17 in stock?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





metsat said:


> Ok, thanks...another question...do you guys know of any u.s store that ships internationally (to sweden) that has the E17 in stock?


 


  can't help you other than give you this
   
  http://fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=174
   
  official stores fiio has sent E17's too. you can check it out


----------



## tme110

I have quite a bit of 24/174 and 24/192 music.
  
  Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Were do you get 24/192(music)? LOL


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> I have quite a bit of 24/174 and 24/192 music.


 


  174? wow first i heard of that....ur lucky man. I don't :/


----------



## dorino

Most of my collection is 320kbps MP3's, with the _choice_ being 24/96. I don't think I have the components to tell the difference between 24/96 and 24/192.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> the battery on the E17? Yes, just allow charging through USB.


 


  You can disallow it??


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> You can disallow it??


 

 Yes. Imagine a laptop, yes? Now, imagine you don't want the laptop battery draining. You'd rather drain the amp's battery. _You have the power!_


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Yes. Imagine a laptop, yes? Now, imagine you don't want the laptop battery draining. You'd rather drain the amp's battery. _You have the power!_


 


  I get how it works.  I have just never seen an option on a device I have that allows it to draw data through the USB but not power if that's they only way the device can charge.


----------



## tme110

yes you can turn charging off.


----------



## gohanssjn

Reading the manual online now.  They put a lot of thought into this one


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I get how it works.  I have just never seen an option on a device I have that allows it to draw data through the USB but not power if that's they only way the device can charge.


 

 It is a little weird. I doubt it was for the reason I mentioned - It was probably a "just in case" in regards to hiss caused by charging (a few USB DACs do hiss while charging) but that's apparently not a problem.


----------



## slaw slaw

Quote: 





emsijs said:


> It does look really awesome, but the it's the buttons I'm worried. They don't look very easy to manipulate with big fingers.


 


   
  The buttons are raised, it shouldn't be a problem.  The only thing you might worry about is that the hold button might be difficult to slide with large fingers.


----------



## tme110

It really is best to not let batteries charge for months and months straight - like if you keep if permanently mounted to the e9.  I'm guessing that's why.
  
  Quote: 





dorino said:


> It is a little weird. I doubt it was for the reason I mentioned - It was probably a "just in case" in regards to hiss caused by charging (a few USB DACs do hiss while charging) but that's apparently not a problem.


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> my apologies if anyone asked before, but any ideas on how this will do with a DT 700 - 80 Ohm + (Sony DEJ2000 or 925) ?
> Will it make a good combo?


 

 ...
  I'll guess I'll just have to find out for myself eh?
 Pre-ordered one on MP4Nation


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Most of my collection is 320kbps MP3's, with the _choice_ being 24/96. I don't think I have the components to tell the difference between 24/96 and 24/192.


 
  ...i'll get back to you after i get the E17. use high quality Toslink Cables from Macbook Pro and SPDI/F port on my self built PC (doubt there willbe any diff as it's taking PCM data directly with minimal computer intervention) and listen to my song on both settings.
   
  Most of my songs are CD ripped 44.1KHz @ 16bit into Apple Lossless Audio Codec.
  
   


  Quote: 





noonenl said:


> ...
> I'll guess I'll just have to find out for myself eh?
> Pre-ordered one on MP4Nation


 
  ..many have already cancelled their MP4nation orders and are going to micca...is something holding you back?


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ..many have already cancelled their MP4nation orders and are going to micca...is something holding you back?


 

 Why? What did I miss?


----------



## gohanssjn

TBH they only thing holding me back is that I don't actually know that I need an amp.
   
  I have a Senn. HD 598 and a Shure SRH 840.  On the 598 at least, at louder volumes the bass can get a bit... muddy?  And on my iPod Touch 2G the sound just doesn't feel 'exciting.'  I know, very technical terms here.  Being new to all of this I am afraid I will get the E17 and not hear a difference, or at least not enough to justify $150 (E17 + L9).


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

aaaaaaaand its gone. no more e17 on miccastore


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> Why? What did I miss?


 

 it was abailble on Micca store with better deal and speed. i was the first to post about it in this thread about it's availbiltiy
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/591410/us-availability-for-fiio-e17/30#post_8086882
  read here. it sold out in 7 hours. we got many people in this thread to switch to Micca though  sorry u missed it
   
  you got free fiio shirt
  a free 3ft toslink cable to mini.
  a free toslink mini adapter
  and plus headphone,lod,amp bundles with reduced prices. you could get a portable headphone like the soundmagic P20 for $5 with this bundle.
  it was $140 for the E17 itself and it would arrive in 4 days from now  i just placed order a couple hours ago
   


  Quote: 





uncle00jesse said:


> aaaaaaaand its gone. no more e17 on miccastore


 


  haha yeah. lucky i was one of the first to get it 


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> TBH they only thing holding me back is that I don't actually know that I need an amp.
> 
> I have a Senn. HD 598 and a Shure SRH 840.  On the 598 at least, at louder volumes the bass can get a bit... muddy?  And on my iPod Touch 2G the sound just doesn't feel 'exciting.'  I know, very technical terms here.  Being new to all of this I am afraid I will get the E17 and not hear a difference, or at least not enough to justify $150 (E17 + L9).


 

 i have the ipod touch 2G. and i have heard it out of the E5 and my Macbook Pro. i remember...the lusicious sound of the amp before it broke..  i need


----------



## gohanssjn

Hmm.  They are sold out but I am on the last page of the paypal screen when I read that.  Drat!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Hmm.  They are sold out but I am on the last page of the paypal screen when I read that.  Drat!


 


  ....i am sorrry for your loss man  did you still order and see if it worked? don't know...you should've hyped urself up and said"i can buy this" and have went for it..just 2 hours earlier man :/


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> I have quite a bit of 24/174 and 24/192 music.


 


  From HDTracks also?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> From HDTracks also?


 

 i was wondering that too 
   
  Headfonic's just released it's own review of the E17. same stuff as you heard in Mike's basically


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ....i am sorrry for your loss man  did you still order and see if it worked? don't know...you should've hyped urself up and said"i can buy this" and have went for it..just 2 hours earlier man :/


 

 Yes I did!  Micca told me to give it a shot and see if it either went through or any got canceled.  Fingers crossed 
   
  EDIT:  Although this does not seem promising, lol.  Why am I ineligible!?
   
   

 01/24/2012 Processing PayPal Notification [Completed - $147.95]; Ship To [confirmed]; Eligibility [Ineligible]; Payer [unverified]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Yes I did!  Micca told me to give it a shot and see if it either went through or any got canceled.  Fingers crossed
> 
> EDIT:  Although this does not seem promising, lol.  Why am I ineligible!?
> 
> ...


 


  i got the same thing. my elegibility and payer is the same thing


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i got the same thing. my elegibility and payer is the same thing


 


  Then the fingers shall remain crossed


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Then the fingers shall remain crossed


 


  hahah hope u get it man  what Extra did you get for it? An LOD? I got the PL11 for $10 with it.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

my order has been on "procesing" at mp4 nation since, i cant remmeber, last monday? am i the only  one?


----------



## Arboginge911

I don't have an amp yet, but I have been looking to get one. Would this make a good amp to start with, just as an introduction to others?
  It was either this or I build my own CMOYBB, any opinions either way?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> my order has been on "procesing" at mp4 nation since, i cant remmeber, last monday? am i the only  one?


 


  you missed it. we had a little Micca revolution over here


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





arboginge911 said:


> I don't have an amp yet, but I have been looking to get one. Would this make a good amp to start with, just as an introduction to others?
> It was either this or I build my own CMOYBB, any opinions either way?


 


  it really depends on what you want. What genre's you like and stuff and what headphones you have. If you want a great upgradable amp (as in allows ur heapdhones to upgrade) then....probably yes


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hahah hope u get it man  what Extra did you get for it? An LOD? I got the PL11 for $10 with it.


 


  I mainly use an iPod Touch 2G when out of the house, so I got an L9 cable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I mainly use an iPod Touch 2G when out of the house, so I got an L9 cable.


 


  haha got that already  I remember the sound of the E5..was great  can't wait for this. L9 was also fantastic for me


----------



## Arboginge911

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> it really depends on what you want. What genre's you like and stuff and what headphones you have. If you want a great upgradable amp (as in allows ur heapdhones to upgrade) then....probably yes


 


  Haha thanks! I'll definitely look into this then!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





arboginge911 said:


> Haha thanks! I'll definitely look into this then!


 

 there are revies on here, headfonia and headfonics
  http://headfonics.com/2012/01/the-fiio-e17-the-alpen/
  this page takes about 20 seconds to load. most would like this better than the Cmoy from what i have heard from users. this is 3X it's price though but it's increased power, options, DAC should be something to look forward to. i don't have this yet, and i don't own the Cmoy, i just know this form what one user said about it compared to E17


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> you missed it. we had a little Micca revolution over here


 


  does micca still have some available?
   
  I swear I'll cancel that order at mp4 nation if that is so


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> does micca still have some available?
> 
> I swear I'll cancel that order at mp4 nation if that is so


 

 haha sorry man. if you read the E17 availbility page. and my post about it. and anothers. they just sold out after 7 hours. it was $140 with free tshirt, and toslink cable and an adapter with reduced prices on bundle heapdhones, lods,or amps with free shipping and will arrive in about 5 days


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha sorry man. if you read the E17 availbility page. and my post about it. and anothers. they just sold out after 7 hours. it was $140 with free tshirt, and toslink cable and an adapter with reduced prices on bundle heapdhones, lods,or amps with free shipping and will arrive in about 5 days


 


  ****, I missed it.


----------



## wh85

anyone tried pairing this with high end custom iems like jh 16 pros, es5s, 1986 quads, heir 8As? Was wondering if it boosts these already high end iems up to a different level or you'll need a better amp like picos/RSAs to do it properly?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> ****, I missed it.


 


  haha yeah. same with a couple others. it's partly my fault. i'll take some blame for it. my super awesomeness led me to post to everyone on it's abailbility here causing a mass buying storm on micca and mass cancelling from mp4nation. check the comments. haha jk i won't take credit. it was just a nice thought though 
   
  i'll post impressions when i get it.
  I got this deal
  FiiO E17
  FiiO T-shirt
  Toslink to mini cable
  2X mini toslink adapters
  Fancy premium Toslink to toslink cable from monoprice
  monoprice 8320 earbuds
  soundmagic PL11 earbuds
   
  all this for $165  totall..shipping and handling and everything is already included


----------



## gohanssjn

Guess I'll have to sleep with my fingers crossed, lol.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Guess I'll have to sleep with my fingers crossed, lol.


 


  I'll hope for you as well man  i have to share my happiness with someone too; can't be too greedy


----------



## deadguy99

Does anyone know what frequency's the bass/treble are centered on and how wide they boost aswell as the decibel increase per number, and how high does the boosts go in numbers


----------



## Splungeworthy

So how many do you think Micca got? Because he had to know there was going to be massive interest generated on Head-Fi-hard to believe it sold out so quickly.  Guess it's on to Amazon where they hopefully ordered enough.  As they say around here, you slow, you blow.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





splungeworthy said:


> So how many do you think Micca got? Because he had to know there was going to be massive interest generated on Head-Fi-hard to believe it sold out so quickly.  Guess it's on to Amazon where they hopefully ordered enough.  As they say around here, you slow, you blow.


 


  hahah. they sold out mad fast . they didn't even put it on Amazon  lucky i got in on this deal this time around


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Are you getting 'ITEM LODGED INTO DESTINATION MAIL HUB LOCAL POSTAL AGENT'?


 

 DESPATCHED TO OVERSEAS 21/Jan/2012 09:50:00 SINGPOST DESPATCHED TO COUNTRY : USA / CITY : J.F. KENNEDY
  
  Depends on the speed of the custom, I could get it this week.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> To anyone that has the E17: is there any background hiss at all?  That's the one thing I cannot stand in a component; that very faint background hiss in silent parts of songs.


 

 E17 is the least hissing of any FiiO. In fact, it is very well behaved even compared to other amps of its price range when it come to hiss.
   
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i think CLIEOS or mike from headfonia would have reported if there was.


 
  You will read more about it in the final review, which should be up in next 24 hours as I have finished most of it and just need a bit more editing.
  

  
  Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> I don't expect anything any different from what ClieOS and the Headphonia review describe....or I will use their return policy (like I did last week with Digizoid and the Z02v3).


 

 Me and Mike don't always agree on everything, but for the case of E17, we do share a large portion of our opinion. Perhaps just a little deviation here and there.
   
   
  Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> All of that factored in the purchase from Micca Store
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'll be watching you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





tme110 said:


> It really is best to not let batteries charge for months and months straight - like if you keep if permanently mounted to the e9.  I'm guessing that's why.


 

 Yep, you need to 'cycle' Li-ion battery from time to time (drain it and fully charge it again) in order to keep it 'fresh'. It helps to prolong battery life. But you don'ty need to do it too often. Once or twice per month should be good enough.
   


  Quote: 





arboginge911 said:


> I don't have an amp yet, but I have been looking to get one. Would this make a good amp to start with, just as an introduction to others?
> It was either this or I build my own CMOYBB, any opinions either way?


 

 I always encourage people to build a cmoy of their own (and cmoyBB is a excellent place to start) to learn a bit about electronic and soldering. It will be of great use for the rest of you life knowing how to fix basic stuff. But purely as a starter amp (admittedly E17 is a bit more expensive and advanced than a starter amp), you can't beat E17.
   
   
  Quote: 





deadguy99 said:


> Does anyone know what frequency's the bass/treble are centered on and how wide they boost aswell as the decibel increase per number, and how high does the boosts go in numbers


 

 Bass EQ is centered around 20Hz and treble EQ is centered around 14.6kHz. I will show you all the FR curve in graph for all the different setting, so stay tuned.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





clieos said:


> E17 is the least hissing of any FiiO. In fact, it is very well behaved even compared to other amps of its price range when it come to hiss.


 
   
  Least?  See, that make me nervous!


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Least?  See, that make me nervous!


 

 Unless you have IEMs you shouldn't have a problem.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Unless you have IEMs you shouldn't have a problem.


 


  I likely won't use it much with my IEMs, but why would that make a difference in hiss?


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I likely won't use it much with my IEMs, but why would that make a difference in hiss?


 
  IEMs are more sensitive to hiss. I think.
  Someone knows more about this than me. ClieOS?


----------



## akinari42

The order I placed a couple of hours ago from Micca just shipped!


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





akinari42 said:


> The order I placed a couple of hours ago from Micca just shipped!


 


  How many is a couple


----------



## akinari42

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> How many is a couple


 


   
  Five and a half?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





akinari42 said:


> Five and a half?


 


  Awesome 
   
  Also, I was thinking of doing SPDIF instead of USB for 24/192, but my card only outputs SPDIF in 24/96.  Welp, USB it is!


----------



## djevoultion

What's the Bass Boost Levels on the E17? 
   
  I know the E10 adds + 3dB of Bass with BB on.


----------



## RodSmith

Anyone tried one of these with a pair of hifiman he-400, Grado SR325iS or AKG K702's?


----------



## slaw slaw

Quote: 





djevoultion said:


> What's the Bass Boost Levels on the E17?
> 
> I know the E10 adds + 3dB of Bass with BB on.


 


  Up to 10 +- Db on both bass and treble.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Awesome
> 
> Also, I was thinking of doing SPDIF instead of USB for 24/192, but my card only outputs SPDIF in 24/96.  Welp, USB it is!


 


   
  Didnt spdif bypass most chips and thus can do 24/192 straight out?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





dorino said:


> Unless you have IEMs you shouldn't have a problem.


 
  Quote: 





dorino said:


> IEMs are more sensitive to hiss. I think.
> Someone knows more about this than me. ClieOS?


 
  Unless you are using custom IEM with very low impedance and very high sensitivity, most IEM will hear no hiss with E17. Even with Shure SE530, the most hiss prone universal IEM you can have, it is totally hiss-less in 0dB gain in any volume, slight hissing pass 55/60 in 6dB gain and a bit more hissing pass 45/60 in 12dB gain. However, both 55/60 @ 6dB gain and 45/60 @ 12dB gain are insanely loud for SE530. At most, you are not like to go pass 30/60 for SE530 unless you are already half deaf. So as far as hissing on E17 is concerned, I'll say it is close to a nil issue.

  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Didnt spdif bypass most chips and thus can do 24/192 straight out?


 
  It depends on implementation of the SPDIF transmitter, but most SPDIF chips these day should support 24/192. Do note you need to enable the 24/192 option in your audio property as Windows has them disable by default.


----------



## RodSmith

What's the deal with not doing 24/192 over usb? Surely there's enough bandwidth for it?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Unless you are using custom IEM with very low impedance and very high sensitivity, most IEM will hear no hiss with E17. Even with Shure SE530, the most hiss prone universal IEM you can have, it is totally hiss-less in 0dB gain in any volume, slight hissing pass 55/60 in 6dB gain and a bit more hissing pass 45/60 in 12dB gain. However, both 55/60 @ 6dB gain and 45/60 @ 12dB gain are insanely loud for SE530. At most, you are not like to go pass 30/60 for SE530 unless you are already half deaf. So as far as hissing on E17 is concerned, I'll say it is close to a nil issue.
> 
> 
> It depends on implementation of the SPDIF transmitter, but most SPDIF chips these day should support 24/192. Do note you need to enable the 24/192 option in your audio property as Windows has them disable by default.


 
  great to know abotu the IEM's 
   
  And yeah.  i will enable it in Windows and use the Midi setup inMacbook pro to do 192KHz
  
   


  Quote: 





rodsmith said:


> What's the deal with not doing 24/192 over usb? Surely there's enough bandwidth for it?


 

 i've seen other USB support 24/192 before i think, or i'm almost sure. I think it might be the chip they use for it...might cost too much to get a better chip and they try to keep cost down.


----------



## underhysteria

bowei and cleo: will the e17 have any effect on the battery life of the ipod if used as an amp?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> bowei and cleo: will the e17 have any effect on the battery life of the ipod if used as an amp?


 
  if you use an LOD and don't dual amp then it shouldn't have much effect, as the LOD will bypass the ipod's internal amp and circuitry. So it should actually help your ipod's battery as opposed to using it directly from the ipod jack.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





rodsmith said:


> What's the deal with not doing 24/192 over usb? Surely there's enough bandwidth for it?


 
  It is not about bandwidth, but the USB receiver. Any USB receiver than does 24/192 usually tends to be very expensive and difficult to implement. But fear not, in engineering stand point 96kHz is arguably the easiest and best sampling rate around for most hardware. Pushing it to 192kHz doesn't always get you better result.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> It is not about bandwidth, but the USB receiver. Any USB receiver than does 24/192 usually tends to be very expensive and difficult to implement. But fear not, in engineering stand point 96kHz is arguably the easiest and best sampling rate around for most hardware. Pushing it to 192kHz doesn't always get you better result.


 


  good to know my thinking was correct. 96KHz is great, but i just wanted to hear what 192KHz sounds like directly through optical. Why not? I have S/PDIF on both my Macbook and self built PC. and i got a free cable from Micca and i also bought the premium cable from Monoprice. 
  how about  384KHz! haha.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> premium cable from Monoprice.


 

 I've never heard this before.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> I've never heard this before.


 

 it's called a premium cable. i didn't mean it was. it had thicker stuff on it so it wouldn't bend and was astehtically better than the others. Really just it. it was also cheap. why not. nobody in this range states what MHz it is or how thick the fiber inside actually is anyway so it's hard to even compare at all :/ espeically wehn i want to keep it cheap.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> it's called a premium cable. i didn't mean it was. it had thicker stuff on it so it wouldn't bend and was astehtically better than the others. Really just it. it was also cheap. why not. nobody in this range states what MHz it is or how thick the fiber inside actually is anyway so it's hard to even compare at all :/ espeically wehn i want to keep it cheap.


 

 I figured. That's better than a premium cable for most things, IMO. I've just never heard monoprice cables referred to as premium - though they're often just as good, premium implies paying a... err... premium!


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Any more impressions out there? This is an impressions thread after all...drop the juicy details!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dorino said:


> I figured. That's better than a premium cable for most things, IMO. I've just never heard monoprice cables referred to as premium - though they're often just as good, premium implies paying a... err... premium!


 


  yeah the reviews for it on other non monoprice affiliated sites were excelelnt. since it was 6Ft of cable for $4 ( i live close so my total shipping for 3 things was only $2.7) it was extra thick and durable and they say it feels like it's worth 10X more ($40) due to the high quality coat it uses, ferrite cores to minimize RF interferance, gold connectors, etc. It's very hard to hear a difference between these cables, and premium cables at my price range, so it shan't matter. it just has to look good. and the monoprice premium fancy cables. look professional  i also bought an mini toslink adapter and an Monoprice 8320 bassy earbuds


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> Any more impressions out there? This is an impressions thread after all...drop the juicy details!


 


  i don't know if you seen my previous post. but a new one came out on headfonics. the page takes about 20 seconds to load. i don't have the link. clieo's should be comming out in the next 24 hours as he previously said 
   
  overal, it shan't matter. first batches are now ALL SOLD. Micca and MP4nation are waiting on second batches to arrive now. MP4 nation will get in mid february. micca probably receive in late february, early march..but will probably be able to ship it out to people in the U.S from then with a 1 week addition to what time the mp4nation probably received them. ..i think. that's what happened this time around.


----------



## dorino

Most US retailers haven't recieved their first batch yet, either. I doubt you'll need to wait till mid-February unless you plan on ordering from Micca or MP4Nation specifically.


----------



## SouthernBoy

Has anyone happened to test this with an iPad2 + CCK?


----------



## ClieOS

Final review posted, see first page.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Ahh, thanks for bringing this thread back to the core of its intent, Clie!  Off for a quick read!
   
  Edit: Thanks for the in-depth review and for honestly sharing your opinion as to the E17's strengths versus it's weaknesses and where one might be better served with a different device.  Already knew I was going to get this, and your comments just support that decision.  Now it's just a waiting game until Amazon gets them in stock!


----------



## dorino

Good review. Definite buy.


----------



## SouthernBoy

Awesome review!  I'm hoping the ability to turn off USB charging means it will, indeed, work in the iPad2->CCK->E17 chain.


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Thank you for a great indepth review on a highly anticipated new FiiO product.  Mine has already shipped and should be here on Friday.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  FiveThreeEcho


----------



## bowei006

Wow, the best review of the E17 yet (no offense headfonia or headfonica)  will arrive soon  mine just shipped


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

So if you want just purely an amp for on the go with the iPod, the E11 is the way to go? 
   
  Oh and thanks for the review!


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> While it always seems to be better to get higher bit depth and sampling rate, any properly mastered album should show very little difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 (note: ‘properly mastered’ is the key words here). The issue that most 24/192 music tend to sound better has more to do with either better mastering or hardware based difference (filtering and such). The knowledge of bit depth and sampling rate go way beyond the scope of this review and I am of no master on the subject to really discuss them. _*The key is not to be too obsessed about them.*_ There are benefit for higher bit depth and sampling rate, but they are not miracle cure and don’t make music better by themselves.  _*For most practical purpose, 24/96 is already well beyond what you need.*_


 


  I hope all us newcomers to hifi pay attention to those two points made.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Agreed.. I thought that whole dissertation was a nice reality check.


----------



## SouthernBoy

Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> Thank you for a great indepth review on a highly anticipated new FiiO product.  Mine has already shipped and should be here on Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  best... avatar... ever.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





personnel jezuz said:


> So if you want just purely an amp for on the go with the iPod, the E11 is the way to go?
> 
> Oh and thanks for the review!


 

 if you like fiio's sound. like all the reviews u are hearing. and am thincking about between the E17 and E11 but would only want an amp. then yes.
   


  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I hope all us newcomers to hifi pay attention to those two points made.


 

 newcomers should definatley pay attention to that
   


  Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> Agreed.. I thought that whole dissertation was a nice reality check.


 
  like i said in the above quote. newcommers pay attention. Audiophile's...grab your Toslink and Coaxil cables 
  
   


  Quote: 





southernboy said:


> best... avatar... ever.


 


  .....agreeed 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/u/168586/sulkoudai


----------



## iHasCake

so Engadget decided to feature the E17.  i scroll down to read some comments and i find this gem:
   
   
  Quote: 





> _Yiifan Ye_ 15 hours ago
> 
> If your headphone can't be driven by an iphone, it can't be driven by this
> If it can, why need this?
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> _Omar Kwawaja_ 15 hours ago in reply to Yifan Ye
> 
> Are you serious. This has way more power than an iPhone, also is serves as a USB DAC for PC.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





> _Yifan Ye _14 hours ago in reply to Omar Khawaja
> 
> Do you really think so?
> With this size and a usb dac inside, one could easily observe that considering the battery size, this thing could not have a voltage swing much higher than normal cellphones or an ipod. Unless fiio really has an unbelievably awesome design, which I highly doubt.
> Also, considering the specs I've seen, the "dac" in this thing is probably...not as good as the dac in some laptops...the one good it would serve is SPDIF. If you want decent PC-hifi, get a dedicated sound card via 1394 or usb 3.0, and then get a dedicated dac with proper voltage and a decent chip


 
   
  :facepalm:


----------



## dL.

Great job Fiio! I am really really impressed with the E17 with the E9 pairing. It sounds much better than the E10!
   
  Found one small minor build quality problem but I fixed it with a sharpie  otherwise, your quality and your price is superb!
   
  It's a keeper!
   
  dL


----------



## gohanssjn

Still waiting on Micca with fingers crossed, lol.  Still says processing on their site.


----------



## rock888

Me too.
  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Still waiting on Micca with fingers crossed, lol.  Still says processing on their site.


----------



## rock888

LOL
  
  Quote: 





ihascake said:


> so Engadget decided to feature the E17.  i scroll down to read some comments and i find this gem:


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> so Engadget decided to feature the E17.  i scroll down to read some comments and i find this gem:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  >get a dedicated soundcard
  >get a dedicated dac
   
  what the **** am I reading


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> so Engadget decided to feature the E17.  i scroll down to read some comments and i find this gem:
> 
> 
> :facepalm:


 

 Wow...this asian person knows nothing.. he should come onto head fi before talking
   


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Still waiting on Micca with fingers crossed, lol.  Still says processing on their site.


 
  sorry man...mine already shipped :/


----------



## tim3320070

Anyone wanting to sell their E17, PM me.


----------



## hartphoto

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Still waiting on Micca with fingers crossed, lol.  Still says processing on their site.


 

 I believe (based on what Jack-Micca has posted/tweeted, and from reading the notes on their web page while placing the order) is that anyone who chose the expedited shipping (an extra $6.95) would have their amp shipped the next business day after placing their order.  The ordering went live on the 24th, but MiccaStore had mentioned they weren't receiving them until today (the 25th).  So, they basically unbox the expedited shipment orders today and turn them around the same day.
   
  The orders that did not have expedited shipping say that it ships 1-2 days after placing the order.  I guess I'm one who read all the details of ordering from them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (a new vendor for me).
   
  I placed my order right at 15 minutes after the tweet that the product was available, and I chose the expedited shipping.  I've been sent my email with tracking number, but it is not live in the USPS system.  This doesn't surprise me.  I ship stuff almost daily in my business with USPS....we've had lost packages missing for 2 weeks, and then they get delivered before the system starts updating.
   
  IOW....patience, young grasshoppers....


----------



## kevin645

I read through the review again. Now I am little anxious and want the Alpen E17.
  My setup is going to have a HD598. I am not sure if I should buy a E9+10 combo or just a E17. Both will cost about the same but which one will be better? I already have cmoy for portable use and if I get the E17 then I can use it as a Preamp/Dac into the cmoy. 
  WHAT TO CHOOSE!? 
  Any known date when amazon will start having these in stock?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kevin645 said:


> I read through the review again. Now I am little anxious and want the Alpen E17.
> My setup is going to have a HD598. I am not sure if I should buy a E9+10 combo or just a E17. Both will cost about the same but which one will be better? I already have cmoy for portable use and if I get the E17 then I can use it as a Preamp/Dac into the cmoy.
> WHAT TO CHOOSE!?
> Any known date when amazon will start having these in stock?


 


  do you need the E9? but yeah..this is a little hard in ur case...both are good. just look to see what you need to use more. if you are upgrading to HD600+ series soon or some Beyer high Ohm models. the E9 plus E10 should be better. but then again. i've read plenty of reviews of the E11 handling 250Ohm beyers very well. (the e17 has more power than E11)
   
  up to you
   
  i don't think these will  be on for a while. it's mainly Micca that does this amazon stuff. all the other people that have stock of other fiio products aren't offciial fiio distro's so they wont' get stock until much later. i think Micca will do another private, twitter follower only round and if they have extra's post on Amazon. but then again. this depends on the size of the shipment they get :/


----------



## kevin645

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> do you need the E9? but yeah..this is a little hard in ur case...both are good. just look to see what you need to use more. if you are upgrading to HD600+ series soon or some Beyer high Ohm models. the E9 plus E10 should be better. but then again. i've read plenty of reviews of the E11 handling 250Ohm beyers very well. (the e17 has more power than E11)
> 
> up to you
> 
> i don't think these will  be on for a while. it's mainly Micca that does this amazon stuff. all the other people that have stock of other fiio products aren't offciial fiio distro's so they wont' get stock until much later. i think Micca will do another private, twitter follower only round and if they have extra's post on Amazon. but then again. this depends on the size of the shipment they get :/


 
  I have about $300 dollars worth of amazon credit. I am waiting again for the HD598 170 USD deal again. I doubt I would be upgrading for a while.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kevin645 said:


> I have about $300 dollars worth of amazon credit. I am waiting again for the HD598 170 USD deal again. I doubt I would be upgrading for a while.


 


  oh so  you don't have the 598's yet. ...it really depends on what u think you will be doing more realy. portabley or desktop. i like moving around so i went with portable.


----------



## duyu

To get the line-out signal from Alpen, you will also need to get the FiiO L7 dock connector (or dock Alpen to E9, if you have one)

 What does this mean??


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> To get the line-out signal from Alpen, you will also need to get the FiiO L7 dock connector (or dock Alpen to E9, if you have one)
> 
> What does this mean??


 


  if you want to bypass the Alpen's internal amplifier. As in just use the DAC and not amp, bc u want to use ur own without dual amping you would get the L7. docking to the E9 also accomplishes this it seems.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Tempted to cancel from mp4nations and order from advancedmp3players.
  I did see the Micca store one but from looking at the site they don't ship internationally 
   
  The mp4nations one is a better price (probably about £30 cheaper after the cables/IEM) but if I have any problems, the uk store will be a lot less hassle.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> The orders that did not have expedited shipping say that it ships 1-2 days after placing the order.  I guess I'm one who read all the details of ordering from them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  To be fair my order was a late place because I was in Paypal when he said they sold out, but told me to go ahead anyway and try an order.  Plus, I was only going on what my receipt said:
   
   

 Standard Shipping (Ships next business day, delivery 5-7 business days after shipping.):

   
  But I am fine to play the waiting game to have a chance


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> To be fair my order was a late place because I was in Paypal when he said they sold out, but told me to go ahead anyway and try an order.  Plus, I was only going on what my receipt said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i am fine too


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i am fine too


 


  Didn't yours already ship?  Grrr!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Didn't yours already ship?  Grrr!


 
  hahah yes it did..but it doesn't matter, like i said in an earlier post. even if they CAN get it to you quicker. they wait till it's the 5th day before it arrives since u only paid for at least 5 days and thus let other packages take priority. happens with any company or usps.. :/
   
  this doesn't allways happens but it is how it normally goes


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hahah yes it did..but it doesn't matter, like i said in an earlier post. even if they CAN get it to you quicker. they wait till it's the 5th day before it arrives since u only paid for at least 5 days and thus let other packages take priority. happens with any company or usps.. :/
> 
> this doesn't allways happens but it is how it normally goes


 


  Lol, my post office always gets it out the day after they get it in.  But I live in a relatively small place next to a large city.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Lol, my post office always gets it out the day after they get it in.  But I live in a relatively small place next to a large city.


 


  mine does too. but ....it takes unecessary steps many times. I seen it happen sometimes with USPS. about  half the time.. UPS and FEDEX are the biggest perpretrators. i've seen it stand in a shipment place for almost a week.....the warehouse was a 1 and a half hour drive from my house and i got the 7 day free shipping...u should see how p 'od i was


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> mine does too. but ....it takes unecessary steps many times. I seen it happen sometimes with USPS. about  half the time.. UPS and FEDEX are the biggest perpretrators. i've seen it stand in a shipment place for almost a week.....the warehouse was a 1 and a half hour drive from my house and i got the 7 day free shipping...u should see how p 'od i was


 


  Welp.


----------



## murph65

Headphone Bar "finally" got their order on tuesday and by the look of things, they're going faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast! 
   
       "And...they're pretty much gone. We have enough to service customers in the store for the next day or two, but we have closed online orders."


----------



## kevin645

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> oh so  you don't have the 598's yet. ...it really depends on what u think you will be doing more realy. portabley or desktop. i like moving around so i went with portable.


 


  Mostly Going to be gaming. Not really going to take Open Can's outside of the house. I would like to have them so I can jam to music as I study. I am going to probably keep these even when I go to college for the same reason or maybe switch to some V-Moda's.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kevin645 said:


> Mostly Going to be gaming. Not really going to take Open Can's outside of the house. I would like to have them so I can jam to music as I study. I am going to probably keep these even when I go to college for the same reason or maybe switch to some V-Moda's.


 


  if u don't need moving around and stuff....but then again. the E17 is superior to the E9 and E10. if u aren't going to upgrade...why have 1W at your disposal?


----------



## kevin645

I will upgrade slowly but buying 300 dollar can's is not in my budget anytime soon. I will buy something like those V-moda's. Well I am sick of listening to my bassless speakers, I assume I can get a decent punchy bass out of the amp. I know that HD598's don't have much bass but with a cmoy+e17 i am sure I will get those desired results.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> if you want to bypass the Alpen's internal amplifier. As in just use the DAC and not amp, bc u want to use ur own without dual amping you would get the L7. docking to the E9 also accomplishes this it seems.


 


  This was what I understood. But when CileOS added that docking E9 can have the same function as L7, it makes me very confused. We couldn't by-pass the amp of E9, right?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kevin645 said:


> I will upgrade slowly but buying 300 dollar can's is not in my budget anytime soon. I will buy something like those V-moda's. Well I am sick of listening to my bassless speakers, I assume I can get a decent punchy bass out of the amp. I know that HD598's don't have much bass but with a cmoy+e17 i am sure I will get those desired results.


 


  dual amp it? I don't know if you would actually even need to. or if it's even going to be recommended you do that. if you like the synergy then go with it. the E17 if i remember has more bass boost than E10 does so it might fit you better :/ u are currently only on fiio products. there are more out there. but i guess fiio is what you want


----------



## kevin645

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> dual amp it? I don't know if you would actually even need to. or if it's even going to be recommended you do that. if you like the synergy then go with it. the E17 if i remember has more bass boost than E10 does so it might fit you better :/ u are currently only on fiio products. there are more out there. but i guess fiio is what you want


 


  I get the most out of it with my limited 300 dollar amazon credit. Someday I will move on to better products.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kevin645 said:


> I get the most out of it with my limited 300 dollar amazon credit. Someday I will move on to better products.


 

 Like ClieOS said, there are better amps in this price range..but are mainly featureless. and probably don't have the consumer bass boost with audiophile properties that you are looking for.


----------



## gohanssjn

Mine shipped!  Tracking number in hand


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> so Engadget decided to feature the E17.  i scroll down to read some comments and i find this gem:


 
  I have heard a few RSA amp in my life (not the P51 though). They are decent amp that are generally way overpriced. For the same money, you can find better sounding amp than most RSA.
  

  
  Quote: 





duyu said:


> This was what I understood. But when CileOS added that docking E9 can have the same function as L7, it makes me very confused. We couldn't by-pass the amp of E9, right?


 
  L7 is only for getting line-out signal from E7 and E17. E9 on the other hand can use E7 / E17 line-out signal for amping as well as output it untamed via the RCA jack on its back (mainly to used with speaker). So both L7 and E9 can get line-out from E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Mine shipped!  Tracking number in hand


 


  me too..it hasn't updated yet  congrats man  our hoping paid off  we are both happy campers now


----------



## nsx280ps

Has anyone tried the E17 with the AKGs K701/K702/Q701 ?  Am on a budget and wondering if the E17 will at least be able to drive them to a sufficient level


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





nsx280ps said:


> Has anyone tried the E17 with the AKGs K701/K702/Q701 ?  Am on a budget and wondering if the E17 will at least be able to drive them to a sufficient level


 


  that's a good question. i am looking into AKG a bit too. nsx280ps. i think you should go look at those models used with the E11....they amp very very similary and are from same company. you should find plenty of stuff on each model with the ever sopopular E11


----------



## iHasCake

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I have heard a few RSA amp in my life (not the P51 though). They are decent amp that are generally way overpriced. For the same money, you can find better sounding amp than most RSA.


 


  what ticks me off the most about this guy is that i constantly see him giving *cough* advice *cough* to people on audio related articles.  just seems like a google jockey to me.


----------



## hartphoto

Quote: 





nsx280ps said:


> Has anyone tried the E17 with the AKGs K701/K702/Q701 ?  Am on a budget and wondering if the E17 will at least be able to drive them to a sufficient level


 

 AKG 701s is a 62 ohm setup.  E17 should be quite capable, according to specs.
   
  But, FWIW....I'll be able to give a direct answer in a couple of days (as I own the AKG 701).


----------



## jotry

Not totally sure what to expect, but nonetheless I ordered an E17+E9 combo and looking forward to getting it! I want to give some more powerful amps and a dac a chance and this seems like a great value for the money.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> me too..it hasn't updated yet


 

 Hmm, me either.  Says:
   
Delivery status information is not available for your item via this web site. A return receipt after mailing may be available through your local Post Office.
   
  Weird.  Usually they update overnight.  Unless Micca makes their own labels in house (which a lot of places do), dropped it off last night... and it will actually be in the USPS system today, not yesterday.  I assume that's what it is.


----------



## Chumburro

Quick question.  Using the Fiio e17 will it be able to bypass the iPhones internal DAC and utilize its own DAC via 30 pin connector?


----------



## SkyM

Hey guys so I was interested in buying either an e7 or an e17 but I'm not sure. I can only get amplifiers that can connect to my laptop via the USB port because my audio jack is broken. I know that the e7 can do this but I can't find anywhere that says if the e17 can connect through USB or not. If the e17 can, I don't have to buy the e9 with it right? Should I just get the e7? I'm only really going to be using it for my laptop anyway. I just want an amplifier that I can connect to my computer through USB, is there a better one? This will be my first amplifier and I have Sennheiser HD595's so it will be worth getting too.


----------



## aquacos

hi there,
  my e17 arrived today. so far so good. i tried it with my shure se535 an the t70p. if no music is playing there is a silent but audible buzzing. its more audible with my inears then with my t70p and independent of the source but it is there. buzzing is changing a little bit if i scroll through the menu. is this a bug or a feature? may be i have to send it back. it's really annoying. 
   
  @clieos
  did you hear such a buzzing in your e17? what could be the reason?
   
  greetings, s


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





skym said:


> Hey guys so I was interested in buying either an e7 or an e17 but I'm not sure. I can only get amplifiers that can connect to my laptop via the USB port because my audio jack is broken. I know that the e7 can do this *but I can't find anywhere that says if the e17 can connect through USB or not.* If the e17 can, I don't have to buy the e9 with it right? Should I just get the e7? I'm only really going to be using it for my laptop anyway. I just want an amplifier that I can connect to my computer through USB, is there a better one? This will be my first amplifier and I have Sennheiser HD595's so it will be worth getting too.


 

 Have you read the review on the first page?
   


  Quote: 





aquacos said:


> hi there,
> my e17 arrived today. so far so good. i tried it with my shure se535 an the t70p. if no music is playing there is a silent but audible buzzing. its more audible with my inears then with my t70p and independent of the source but it is there. buzzing is changing a little bit if i scroll through the menu. is this a bug or a feature? may be i have to send it back. it's really annoying.
> 
> @clieos
> ...


 
   
  No buzzing for me. Mine is as quiet as it can be. What volume, gain and mode is your E17 in? What is the source? Does it happen only when connected to a source or not?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





aquacos said:


> hi there,
> my e17 arrived today. so far so good. i tried it with my shure se535 an the t70p. if no music is playing there is a silent but audible buzzing. its more audible with my inears then with my t70p and independent of the source but it is there. buzzing is changing a little bit if i scroll through the menu. is this a bug or a feature? may be i have to send it back. it's really annoying.
> 
> @clieos
> ...


 


  Uh oh....


  Quote: 





clieos said:


> No buzzing for me. Mine is as quiet as it can be. What volume, gain and mode is your E17 in? What is the source? Does it happen only when connected to a source or not?


 

 Hmm, well that's promising.  Maybe just a bum unit then


----------



## aquacos

it is independent of gain and source. even without a source is a buzzing. buzzing disappears if i switch in a submenu (i.e. max volume and try to adjust). and i noticed now, if i increase the volume to about 40 buzzing disappears. it is really strange.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





aquacos said:


> it is independent of gain and source. even without a source is a buzzing. buzzing disappears if i switch in a submenu (i.e. max volume and try to adjust). and i noticed now, if i increase the volume to about 40 buzzing disappears. it is really strange.


 

 That's really weird. Have you tried reset the E17 yet? The reset hole is right between headphone-out and SPDIF-in.
   
  p/s: might also want to charge your battery a bit as a weak battery can behave strangely.


----------



## SkyM

I'm sorry ClieOS I'm not familiar with this website, I just read page 1 and I'm guessing that DAC means that indeed it can be used with my pc via USB port? It's only necessary to purchase the e17 and maybe an L9 connector cable and not the e9 as well right? Again, I have Sennheiser 595s and they are good enough for use with the e17 correct? Where do you recommend I buy it from? I'm looking at a site called mp4nation at the moment and they look pretty good. Thanks again.


----------



## aquacos

did a reset. nothing changed.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





skym said:


> I'm sorry ClieOS I'm not familiar with this website, I just read page 1 and I'm guessing that DAC means that indeed it can be used with my pc via USB port? It's only necessary to purchase the e17 and maybe an L9 connector cable and not the e9 as well right? Again, I have Sennheiser 595s and they are good enough for use with the e17 correct? Where do you recommend I buy it from? I'm looking at a site called mp4nation at the moment and they look pretty good. Thanks again.


 
  If all you need is to use the headphone-out, you don't need any extra cable. Connect the E17's mini USB port to PC is all you need to do. Don't have the HD595 so I don't know how well it will be.


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Hmm, me either.  Says:
> 
> Delivery status information is not available for your item via this web site. A return receipt after mailing may be available through your local Post Office.
> 
> Weird.  Usually they update overnight.  Unless Micca makes their own labels in house (which a lot of places do), dropped it off last night... and it will actually be in the USPS system today, not yesterday.  I assume that's what it is.


 


  Yea I'm still waiting on my E11. My order sat in processing for a couple of days with Micca, then USPS shows its been sitting in the same location for 2 days. 
   
  In the past, Ive had items get delivered to my house and USPS' website shows its still in another site. So I usually take their tracking info, or lack thereof, as a grain of salt.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Yea I'm still waiting on my E11. My order sat in processing for a couple of days with Micca, then USPS shows its been sitting in the same location for 2 days.
> 
> In the past, Ive had items get delivered to my house and USPS' website shows its still in another site. So I usually take their tracking info, or lack thereof, as a grain of salt.


 


  I've had the same thing happen with USPS, lol.  Location: across the country.  Real location: in my mailbox.


----------



## rock888

Micca gave the tracking number last night but USPS still says "no record". But I am also aware that USPS tracking is not accurate at all - most of time delayed. Hopefully I can receive and enjoy the dream toy early next week.
  
  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Hmm, me either.  Says:
> 
> Delivery status information is not available for your item via this web site. A return receipt after mailing may be available through your local Post Office.
> 
> Weird.  Usually they update overnight.  Unless Micca makes their own labels in house (which a lot of places do), dropped it off last night... and it will actually be in the USPS system today, not yesterday.  I assume that's what it is.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rock888 said:


> Micca gave the tracking number last night but USPS still says "no record". But I am also aware that USPS tracking is not accurate at all - most of time delayed. Hopefully I can receive and enjoy the dream toy early next week.


 

 haha same with me. UPS is better
   
   


chumburro said:


> Quick question.  Using the Fiio e17 will it be able to bypass the iPhones internal DAC and utilize its own DAC via 30 pin connector?


 
  nope. only the Algo Solo, CLAS, Fostex HP1 and a couple other that are $600+ can do that.
  
   




skym said:


> Hey guys so I was interested in buying either an e7 or an e17 but I'm not sure. I can only get amplifiers that can connect to my laptop via the USB port because my audio jack is broken. I know that the e7 can do this but I can't find anywhere that says if the e17 can connect through USB or not. If the e17 can, I don't have to buy the e9 with it right? Should I just get the e7? I'm only really going to be using it for my laptop anyway. I just want an amplifier that I can connect to my computer through USB, is there a better one? This will be my first amplifier and I have Sennheiser HD595's so it will be worth getting too.


 
  The E17 is and can be used through USB. The E17 seems from what everyone says ...is much better than E7. I see the E17 as un upgrade path. something that makes upgrading whatever cans u have right now easy.
  
   




skym said:


> I'm sorry ClieOS I'm not familiar with this website, I just read page 1 and I'm guessing that DAC means that indeed it can be used with my pc via USB port? It's only necessary to purchase the e17 and maybe an L9 connector cable and not the e9 as well right? Again, I have Sennheiser 595s and they are good enough for use with the e17 correct? Where do you recommend I buy it from? I'm looking at a site called mp4nation at the moment and they look pretty good. Thanks again.


 
   
  the L9 cable is only for if you wnat to connect to E17 through AUX in with an ipod or iphone or ipad. basically use as portable amp. the E9 is a desktop amp. unless you wnat to drive some high impendance cans. not needed.
   
   


y2hbk said:


> Yea I'm still waiting on my E11. My order sat in processing for a couple of days with Micca, then USPS shows its been sitting in the same location for 2 days.
> 
> In the past, Ive had items get delivered to my house and USPS' website shows its still in another site. So I usually take their tracking info, or lack thereof, as a grain of salt.


 
  same thing happened to me before too. my tracker still showed nothing happened. i go outside..see my package in my mail box. the next day. the tracker updated with all the info.....wow.
   
   
  My tracker for the E17 just says USPS has gotten it


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





aquacos said:


> hi there,
> my e17 arrived today. so far so good. i tried it with my shure se535 an the t70p. if no music is playing there is a silent but audible buzzing. its more audible with my inears then with my t70p and independent of the source but it is there. buzzing is changing a little bit if i scroll through the menu. is this a bug or a feature? may be i have to send it back. it's really annoying.
> 
> @clieos
> ...


 

 ****.


----------



## bowei006

Obama visited UPS plant this morning....If he also visitied an USPS plant i could blame him for my tracker not updating....hmm..but then again. i could say that USPS people are busy combating UPS goers right now or something and my shipment is delayed.......i need someone to blame for this unsatisfactory feeling right now


----------



## mister2d

Is there any way for this thread to become an impressions (and related) thread again?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Is there any way for this thread to become an impressions (and related) thread again?


 


  Once more of us have them in hand I am sure that is exactly what will happen.  Right now we are just in a dead zone.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Is there any way for this thread to become an impressions (and related) thread again?


 


   
  what gohanssjm said. none of us received them yet and the people that did are mostly regular head fi'ers
  
  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Once more of us have them in hand I am sure that is exactly what will happen.  Right now we are just in a dead zone.


 

 yeah. i will be able to post an impression on regular forums and a copy of one here in about a week. i'll get in about 5 days...5days on head fi is a long time...


----------



## aquacos

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> ****.


 


  Yes? ...
   
  otherwise, the e17 sounds really great. but this buzzing feature/bug isn't acceptable. battery is now loading about 4 h and isn't full.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





aquacos said:


> Yes? ...
> 
> otherwise, the e17 sounds really great. but this buzzing feature/bug isn't acceptable. battery is now loading about 4 h and isn't full.


 

 i think ur battery ...might be damaged or something. like the full post said. with such a high volume of E17's being sold. the amount of faulty ones also increase in some way shape or form. i am getting them in almost a week. i will se if i can hear anything.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> what gohanssjm said. none of us received them yet and the people that did are mostly regular head fi'ers
> 
> 
> yeah. i will be able to post an impression on regular forums and a copy of one here in about a week. i'll get in about 5 days...5days on head fi is a long time...


 
   
   
  Just a bit annoying to see tracking info and random thoughts. You could always create another thread to put filler in.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Just a bit annoying to see tracking info and random thoughts. You could always create another thread to put filler in.


 

 this is the only active E17 thread. makng a new one means u have to start over. this thread is viewed a lot. it's just for discussion about it. why not. The rule of Head-Fi you should get used to. ALL threads get derailed and go off topic in some way shape or form. most get back on...and then off. and the cycle repeats


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> this is the only active E17 thread. makng a new one means u have to start over. this thread is viewed a lot. it's just for discussion about it. why not. The rule of Head-Fi you should get used to. ALL threads get derailed and go off topic in some way shape or form. most get back on...and then off. and the cycle repeats


 


   


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> what gohanssjm said. none of us received them yet and the people that did are mostly regular head fi'ers
> 
> 
> yeah. i will be able to post an impression on regular forums and a copy of one here in about a week. i'll get in about 5 days...5days on head fi is a long time...


 

 Are you going for "the most posts without the product" record?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Are you going for "the most posts without the product" record?


 
  me? I'm just spending some time on forums. I usually reply when i see interesting stuff i want to coment on.


----------



## gohanssjn

Guys, we're all just excited about a new product and posting about it.  Nothing to get mad over or to start making little quips at each other over.  It's just text on a screen.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Guys, we're all just excited about a new product and posting about it.  Nothing to get mad over or to start making little quips at each other over.  It's just text on a screen.


 

 I do agree. if you guys do care. post about it like tim did and if we get enough. we will stop of course..but so far. i dont see any


----------



## mister2d

gohanssjn said:


> Guys, we're all just excited about a new product and posting about it.  Nothing to get mad over or to start making little quips at each other over.  It's just text on a screen.




Who's mad again? Just create a new 'excited for e17' thread or something. It's not hard to do. Otherwise you're just flooding thread email subscriptions with useless bits.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Who's mad again? Just create a new 'excited for e17' thread or something. It's not hard to do. Otherwise you're just flooding thread email subscriptions with useless bits.


 


  i don't and i don't think most link this to their emails. most like me just use their notifications..i think


----------



## kalbee

@ClieOS:
  I remember looking up through the search function and you had a post concerning using it on USB mode with charging turned off. If this effectively bypasses the e17 battery altogether, do you suppose it to still work on USB mode if the batteries die (or with the batteries removed altogether)?


----------



## bowei006

@ClieOS i also have a question. it seem the E11 has a high performance mode inside it. near the battery. does the e17 also have this.....i don't think u openeed it..but in case u did. And also. does E11 batter work with this?it seems in micca store it said people that bought E17 also bought E11 battery kit ?


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Just a bit annoying to see tracking info and random thoughts. You could always create another thread to put filler in.


 

 There is actually a thread started by Jack-Micca which would be an ideal place for discussing tracking info and such. Just a suggestion 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/591410/us-availability-for-fiio-e17/30


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> There is actually a thread started by Jack-Micca which would be an ideal place for discussing tracking info and such. Just a suggestion
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/591410/us-availability-for-fiio-e17/30


 


  as you can already see...i've been there. not too many people there and it's been dead for a couple of days


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @ClieOS i also have a question. it seem the E11 has a high performance mode inside it. near the battery. does the e17 also have this.....i don't think u openeed it..but in case u did. And also. does E11 batter work with this?it seems in micca store it said people that bought E17 also bought E11 battery kit ?


 


  1, E17 does not includes the switcher to change the supply voltage.
   
  2, Only E11 support replaceable battery.
   
  BTW, thanks to bowei006, you help lots of people in here!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> 1, E17 does not includes the switcher to change the supply voltage.
> 
> 2, Only E11 support replaceable battery.
> 
> BTW, thanks to bowei006, you help lots of people in here!


 


  Your Welcome  ! I am on head fi a lot and know quite a bit about FiiO due to how i scrounge around eveywhere and ask questions. so if i know after asking someone like clieos or even you. why not help you guys by help answering some questions on some basic general stuff. FiiO has been good to me with the E5 ad with info on the E17,
   


Spoiler: PRC%20rant



I am also a patriot of the People's Republic of China and would like to advace news of my homeland's new advances in the field of audio whenever i can. this is a sign of revolution! A new econoimic revlution of China sparked by decades of growth! Long live the People's Republic!


   
   
  It would be nice if there was a high performance setting...but ehh. whatever :/
   
  looking forward for the new power increase and awesome bass boosting of this  and the fiio music bomb T-Shirt


----------



## JamesFiiO

Thank you very much! We have more and more friend around the world now , and FiiO become a world wide global brand now. sometimes we will make some mistake and wrong decision, but thank God that so many friend will like to help us and we do learn a lots from our end user. and I love internet and head-fi because we can talk with our user directly. 
   
   
  At the end, I have a new wish in new year that my English can be better and catch up the speed of our business and new model, LOL. So it is very useful to me that you guy can help me answer some question.


----------



## dorino

How well can the E17 drive a pair of HE-400's?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





aquacos said:


> Yes? ...
> otherwise, the e17 sounds really great. but this buzzing feature/bug isn't acceptable. battery is now loading about 4 h and isn't full.


 
  It will take 3~4 hours to fully charge an empty E17 (also depends on the power supply on your USB port as they do very in power).. Try PM Feiao and see if he has any suggestion for you.
  
   
  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> @ClieOS:
> I remember looking up through the search function and you had a post concerning using it on USB mode with charging turned off. If this effectively bypasses the e17 battery altogether, do you suppose it to still work on USB mode if the batteries die (or with the batteries removed altogether)?


 
  From past experience with E7, it should. But that's (letting it die) probably not going to be good for the battery. To remove the battery, you will need to desolder it from the PCB and that will void your warrenty.
   
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @ClieOS i also have a question. it seem the E11 has a high performance mode inside it. near the battery. does the e17 also have this.....i don't think u openeed it..but in case u did. And also. does E11 batter work with this?it seems in micca store it said people that bought E17 also bought E11 battery kit ?


 
  There is no high/low performance mode in E17. Judging purely on output, I'll say E17's performance is already pretty high.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Thank you very much! We have more and more friend around the world now , and FiiO become a world wide global brand now. sometimes we will make some mistake and wrong decision, but thank God that so many friend will like to help us and we do learn a lots from our end user. and I love internet and head-fi because we can talk with our user directly.
> 
> 
> At the end, I have a new wish in new year that my English can be better and catch up the speed of our business and new model, LOL. So it is very useful to me that you guy can help me answer some question.


 


   
  Your englisg is ver good already. U just need to refine it is all. Posting on head fi should help. The only time i could barely read what you wrote was on the advertisement sheet for the x protector(if you did write it at all)


----------



## kalbee

Well, from what I understood, the e7 is constantly in charging mode once plugged (correct me if I am wrong) so wouldn't it not apply?
  Also, sorry for not specifying; by when batteries are dead i meant when the batteries are at its end of life and can no longer hold charges (this is why I compared it with the case with batteries removed. Guess it cannot be tried since it's soldered on, good to know!) I know its too early for anyone to have experienced this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe someone with a faulty battery if any can tell. or feiao 
  Basically am just wondering if the e17 can be used the same way as a e10 when the batteries no longer work. That would be awesome.
   
   
  Too bad the Canadian authorized resellers are already all sold out. Waiting on next batch


----------



## steelle

Quote: 





dorino said:


> How well can the E17 drive a pair of HE-400's?


 


   
  Also would like to know how much juice the E17 has.  What cans would be regarded as the upper limit as far as driving capability goes?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Well, from what I understood, the e7 is constantly in charging mode once plugged (correct me if I am wrong) so wouldn't it not apply?
> Also, sorry for not specifying; by when batteries are dead i meant when the batteries are at its end of life and can no longer hold charges (this is why I compared it with the case with batteries removed. Guess it cannot be tried since it's soldered on, good to know!) I know its too early for anyone to have experienced this
> 
> 
> ...


 

 USB charging can be disable in setting for both E7 and E17. They should all work even if you remove the battery.


----------



## underhysteria

Has anyone paired the E17 with the LCD-2? Does it fair well against the ALO continental?

Would love to hear feedbacks on the above.


----------



## dL.

If I always connect the E17 to the E9 should I disable USB charging or would that make the E17 drain the battery and stop working eventually?
   
  dL


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





dl. said:


> If I always connect the E17 to the E9 should I disable USB charging or would that make the E17 drain the battery and stop working eventually?
> 
> dL


 


 Li-ion battery prefers to be recharged often and hate to be drain completely. If you don't cycle (drain and recharge back) your battery enough (as in always fully charged), it will lose its capacity slowly as the chemical becomes inactive. If you cycle your battery too much, it will lose its capacity pretty fast as the chemical degrades at faster rate. So the key is to maintain some level of  cycle, not too much but not too little. I will suggest at least a cycle or two per month. If you over-drained the battery (empty it and doesn't charge it back in time), it will die.


----------



## dL.

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Li-ion battery prefers to be recharged often and hate to be drain completely. If you don't cycle (drain and recharge back) your battery enough (as in always fully charged), it will lose its capacity slowly as the chemical becomes inactive. If you cycle your battery too much, it will lose its capacity pretty fast as the chemical degrades at faster rate. So the key is to maintain some level of  cycle, not too much but not too little. I will suggest at least a cycle or two per month. If you over-drained the battery (empty it and doesn't charge it back in time), it will die.


 


  So essentially once a month I should turn off USB charging to let it drain and when it's about to be empty I just turn USB charging back on then that will cycle it?
   
  dL


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





dl. said:


> So essentially once a month I should turn off USB charging to let it drain and when it's about to be empty I just turn USB charging back on then that will cycle it?
> 
> dL


 

 Yes.


----------



## Mikesin

Finally received


----------



## MickeyVee

Actually, just ordered mine online form a Canadian distributor on the weekend and got my shipping notice yesterday.  Should be here by Feb 1st. Looking forward to it.
  
  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Too bad the Canadian authorized resellers are already all sold out. Waiting on next batch


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Finally received


 


  i see you have an assortment of amps and headphones. how does the E17 work with them? great? short impression (long if you want) plz


----------



## putente

I'm looking forward for your opinion on the E17 paired with the HD25! We know the HD25 is already excellent with the E10... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Actually, just ordered mine online form a Canadian distributor on the weekend and got my shipping notice yesterday.  Should be here by Feb 1st. Looking forward to it.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Actually, just ordered mine online form a Canadian distributor on the weekend and got my shipping notice yesterday.  Should be here by Feb 1st. Looking forward to it.


 


  Really! Care to share the link? 
  I only checked the stores as listed by Fiio's website. Which means headfoneshop and headphonebar... yesterday both were out of stock.
  I don't know that many stores sadly.


----------



## MickeyVee

HeadphoneBar.. just got lucky ordering last weekend


----------



## MickeyVee

Will do.. I have a love/hate relationship between the HD25 & v-Moda M-80 - love the mids and highs on the v-Moda and the nice tight bass on  the HD25's.. maybe the E17 will solve both
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





putente said:


> I'm looking forward for your opinion on the E17 paired with the HD25! We know the HD25 is already excellent with the E10...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Will do.. I have a love/hate relationship between the HD25 & v-Moda M-80 - love the mids and highs on the v-Moda and the nice tight bass on  the HD25's.. maybe the E17 will solve both


 

 Hopefully  plz post if they do  i would love to know how the EQ affects it with headphones like those


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> HeadphoneBar.. just got lucky ordering last weekend


 


  I pre-ordered mine from HeadphoneBar on Jan. 11th, along with an E9. Why with an E9? Because I'm planning to use the E17/E9 combo to drive a pair of HD800s, when I get them. Admittedly I plan to eventually get myself a Dark Voice, or if I'm really crazy, a Headamp GSX. But for now, the cost of the HD800s will limit me to using the E17/E9 combo. For now I'll mainly use the E17/E9 with my DT770 Pro 250ohm cans.
   
  HeadphoneBar told me I should expect them today, but the Canada Post tracking number still shows them in Vancouver and not scheduled for delivery until Mon. Jan. 30th. Since the day is pretty much over for parcel deliveries, I expect I'll have to spend a weekend of anticipation and start playing on Monday.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> HeadphoneBar.. just got lucky ordering last weekend


 

 I hate myself for not putting more emphasis on the keyword: last weekend.
  lol
   
  Give us your impressions when you receive them 
  I am still between this and e10. Not entirely sure I'd bring my harder to drive cans as portable yet.


----------



## MickeyVee

I was not happy with the E7/E9 combo driving a pair of HD600's and HD650's.. couldn't imagine it with a pair of HD800's.. 
  
  Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I pre-ordered mine from HeadphoneBar on Jan. 11th, along with an E9. Why with an E9? Because I'm planning to use the E17/E9 combo to drive a pair of HD800s, when I get them. Admittedly I plan to eventually get myself a Dark Voice, or if I'm really crazy, a Headamp GSX. But for now, the cost of the HD800s will limit me to using the E17/E9 combo. For now I'll mainly use the E17/E9 with my DT770 Pro 250ohm cans.


----------



## steelle

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I was not happy with the E7/E9 combo driving a pair of HD600's and HD650's.. couldn't imagine it with a pair of HD800's..


 


  Uh oh. I plan to use the E17 on my HD580s (same driver as the HD600s), but if you didnt even like the E7+E9 for HD600s... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Do you mind saying why you were unhappy with the performance?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I was not happy with the E7/E9 combo driving a pair of HD600's and HD650's.. couldn't imagine it with a pair of HD800's..


 
  Every single one of us hears things differently, but I'll admit that the E17/E9 combo is only planned for short term use with the HD800s. Only until I can build my savings back up for a nice tube amp. For now, they'll just have to make do. But you never know - the HD800s may sound great to me using the Fiio combo. The E17 is a leap forward from the E7, so you never know. But if not, it may be KD for meals until I can afford the tube amp. :|
   
  Even if the combo isn't great, I'm sure it'll be a far better solution than driving the HD800s directly off my Macbook Pro or iPad 2. And if not, I've always got the DT770 Pros to fall back on.  Regardless, I'm still really excited to listen to the E17 - it uses the same DAC as my $500 Pico DAC/amp but with considerably more amp power. I tried the HD800s with my Pico and while they sounded great, i couldn't get even half of the volume out that I'd normally listen at.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Even if the combo isn't great, I'm sure it'll be a far better solution than driving the HD800s directly off my Macbook Pro or iPad 2. And if not, I've always got the DT770 Pros to fall back on.  Regardless, I'm still really excited to listen to the E17 - *it uses the same DAC as my $500 Pico DAC/amp but with considerably more amp power. I tried the HD800s with my Pico and while they sounded great, i couldn't get even half of the volume out that I'd normally listen at.*


 


  Having the same DAC and chips does have and could give you similarities....but it doesn't mean every WM8740 equipeed device or any device equiped with the two op amps the E17 has will sound similar. i mean look at the revew from the E10 to E17. it was hard already to tell apart . but anyway. what you are trying to say sounds just about right though. the MAcbook pro already offers a good amp and DAC...just not enough power. the amp is clean with low distortion. heck this sounded better than ipod-->LOD-->E5 flat no EQ. this kinda shows how good the Macbook pro already is..some of u guys are thinking. E5 and LOD....pfff..well let me ask you...what other computer comes standard with this stuff. i have a self buitl retail gamingng mobo with....really goood looking audiophile drool specs...it sounds like a donkey. even the ipod direct out sounds better than it. i have also extensive use with gaming laptops and other stuff.....ewww. love the MBP. about to receive e17 maybe. tmmrw or monday. it is currently 1 state away from mine in an USPS sorting facility
   
  The MAverick Tube Magic is pretty popular. don't know really to much about other than that it's $200. it's popular, has a small tube pre amp.. and also ouputs at 1W......i don't own or really read too much about it. why not that? Do you need E17 portability with DT770 PRo's?


----------



## dorino

pre-ordered second batch at mp4nation.
   
  'bout time


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote:


bowei006 said:


> Having the same DAC and chips does have and could give you similarities....but it doesn't mean every WM8740 equipeed device or any device equiped with the two op amps the E17 has will sound similar. i mean look at the revew from the E10 to E17. it was hard already to tell apart . but anyway. what you are trying to say sounds just about right though. the MAcbook pro already offers a good amp and DAC...just not enough power.


 
    
  I totally agree that devices using the same DAC and/or amp chips won't necessarily sound the same. But based on what I have heard of Fiio products (both on the forums and in person), I'm willing to take the chance that the E17 is going to be a pretty close match to my Pico. Even though the E17 itself has more power than the Pico, and having heard the E11 with some HD650s, I wanted to be sure that I have the extra 'oomph' when listening at home. My DT770s are 250ohm and are pretty power hungry, so the addition of the E9 certainly isn't going to hurt. Yes it might colour the sound a little (based on comments in the reviews), but with the minor EQ adjustments available on the E17, I'm pretty certain I'll be able to produce an acceptable, if not pleasing sound stage for my ears.
   
  Quote:


> The MAverick Tube Magic is pretty popular. don't know really to much about other than that it's $200. it's popular, has a small tube pre amp.. and also ouputs at 1W......i don't own or really read too much about it. why not that? Do you need E17 portability with DT770 PRo's?


 
   
  To be honest, I haven't paid much attention to the lower priced tube amps either. One of my friends has a hybrid Little Dot Micro from a few years back, and while it originally sounded great with his HD650s, it seems to have soured with age. It's a lower priced tube amp too, and was/is quite well respected when it was still being sold. Another of my friends is big into tube amps but not into headphones. Most of my experiences have been at meets, listening to the equipment that others have brought. I really liked what I heard of the Darkvoice at the last meet, and I'm also really interested in the Headamp GSX. Alas the GSX is quite far out of my price range - I'd probably look at a set of LCD-3s to go with it, really pushing the pricing envelope. But at that price level I should probably look into buying a decent Stax setup instead.
   
  As for the E17 and portability, yes, I would like it so I could take my DT770s on the road. I've been using my Pico with my IEMs for the last couple of years. As much as I like the IEMs, I really prefer a comfortable set of cans when the situation allows. IEMs are great on the airplane, but a nice set of cans is my preference in the hotel room. All told, the price of the Fiio bundle of the E17/E9 is still about half what I paid for my Pico. If it meets my needs, I can and probably will put the Pico up for sale and use that cash to get me closer to acquiring my HD800s and a decent tube amp.
   
  One thing I have learned over time is that I really can't judge a system until I've listened to it. Buying the E17/E9 combo should prove an interesting experience at the least.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> To be honest, I haven't paid much attention to the lower priced tube amps either. One of my friends has a hybrid Little Dot Micro from a few years back, and while it originally sounded great with his HD650s, it seems to have soured with age. It's a lower priced tube amp too, and was/is quite well respected when it was still being sold. Another of my friends is big into tube amps but not into headphones. Most of my experiences have been at meets, listening to the equipment that others have brought. I really liked what I heard of the Darkvoice at the last meet, and I'm also really interested in the Headamp GSX. Alas the GSX is quite far out of my price range - I'd probably look at a set of LCD-3s to go with it, really pushing the pricing envelope. But at that price level I should probably look into buying a decent Stax setup instead.
> 
> ...


 


  AgentXXL my man...I don't know what...but that was a great post. don't know why i think this or anything. i guess it must be bc of how clear it was, your clear neutral sounding voice. but wow.  hope you enjoy it man..and i wish i heard some others too  I think i remember reading DT990 Pro 250 Ohms get shaken by the E11 with plenty to spare. Well this has 15mW more power. so i guess it should also have close effects. (Beyer is really weird. their numbers all seem like they follow a series as they follow a pattern and are 3 digits usually...but the 770 doesn't mean it's better than 990.....just..wow. don't know why they do that :/ diff purposes for each one i guess) enjoy. mine May BE COMMING tmmrw  ahhh! >_<


----------



## dL.

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Give us your impressions when you receive them
> I am still between this and e10. Not entirely sure I'd bring my harder to drive cans as portable yet.


 

 If you can afford to shell out $60 more, then spend the extra and go for it. I definitely hear clear improvements when I upgraded from the E10 to the E17. At least the E17 doesn't have the 1ms audio cut that the E10 exhibits, which is quite annoying for OS sound alerts (i.e. new mail, empty trash).
   
  dL


----------



## mister2d

I received my E17 earlier today and let it charge until full. So far I've been listening to a bunch of acoustic tracks along with bass heavy ones. I'm in love with this thing! The bass is very impactful as it is with my E11. I can only stand the E17 right now on volume setting 32 and no higher (12dB gain). Yikes! So loud. LOL.
   
  This is a well done amp that keeps making these M50s shine. Very good job FiiO. You get a hand clap from me. The previous E7 I had doesn't even come close and now I'm prepping my E11 to be returned. No need to have both now. My amp/dac needs have been fulfilled.


----------



## dL.

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Finally received


 

 Can you give us your impression of the AKG 701 with the E17+E9 pairing? I plan to pick up the Q701 soon and use it with the E17+E9. I'm pretty set on it unless there is clearly something that sounds bad with this combo lol.
   
  dL


----------



## rock888

Wow, this is very encouraging for my M50. I am pretty satisfied with current E10 already. Still I want more features in E17. That's why I ordered E17. I can't wait... it should be here mid next week.
  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I received my E17 earlier today and let it charge until full. So far I've been listening to a bunch of acoustic tracks along with bass heavy ones. I'm in love with this thing! The bass is very impactful as it is with my E11. I can only stand the E17 right now on volume setting 32 and no higher (12dB gain). Yikes! So loud. LOL.
> 
> This is a well done amp that keeps making these M50s shine. Very good job FiiO. You get a hand clap from me. The previous E7 I had doesn't even come close and now I'm prepping my E11 to be returned. No need to have both now. My amp/dac needs have been fulfilled.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I received my E17 earlier today and let it charge until full. So far I've been listening to a bunch of acoustic tracks along with bass heavy ones. I'm in love with this thing! The bass is very impactful as it is with my E11. I can only stand the E17 right now on volume setting 32 and no higher (12dB gain). Yikes! So loud. LOL.
> 
> This is a well done amp that keeps making these M50s shine. Very good job FiiO. You get a hand clap from me. The previous E7 I had doesn't even come close and now I'm prepping my E11 to be returned. No need to have both now. My amp/dac needs have been fulfilled.


 


  why not drop it down to 6dB gain then instead? less hiss and distortion and etc
   
  Thank you for the impression. this is some good stuff here  can't belive the M50's need even 12dB gain at all.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> mine May BE COMMING tmmrw  ahhh! >_<


 

 Grrrrrr.... mine is sitting in a sorting facility somewhere here in Calgary, at least according to the Canada Post tracking site. Alas I'm almost certain that it won't be delivered until Monday.  It was sent as an expedited parcel, but it's my understanding that Canada Post only delivers on Saturday if the shipper pays extra for Saturday delivery or if it's just before Christmas when they bring on extra staff to try and keep up with the volume of packages. Sigh... I'll just have to try and find something to keep me busy for the entire weekend so I don't keep lamenting about my new toy sitting somewhere in the city, wanting to be touched by its new owner!


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> why not drop it down to 6dB gain then instead? less hiss and distortion and etc
> 
> Thank you for the impression. this is some good stuff here  can't belive the M50's need even 12dB gain at all.


 

  
  I'm not complaining at all. At the 12dB gain level, I don't detect any hiss/distortion on volume setting 32. It's just loud and clear. I am getting my impressions going through all settings including gain 0 and 6dB.
   
  I wouldn't say the M50s "need" 12dB gain, but it certainly handles it like a champ. Very impressive headphones still.
   
  I won't even test my Shure IEMs until some time tomorrow. Their sound signature hurts my ears on the upper end, and after tonight my ears will need to rest.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I'm not complaining at all. At the 12dB gain level, I don't detect any hiss/distortion on volume setting 32. It's just loud and clear. I am getting my impressions going through all settings including gain 0 and 6dB.
> 
> I wouldn't say the M50s "need" 12dB gain, but it certainly handles it like a champ. Very impressive headphones still.
> 
> I won't even test my Shure IEMs until some time tomorrow. Their sound signature hurts my ears on the upper end, and after tonight my ears will need to rest.


 


  haha as expected  clieos's review did say only on IEM's past a certain point on that level will u hear anything 
  I have the very similar HFI580's i expect good results either tmmrw or monday (depends if USPS wan'ts to get it to me fast or not    )
   
  I have the Shure SRH440's and wow..haha. same with me sometimes. those really high songs...omg....they are near the level of harsh but more bright...but man..those things hit...and they hit upp there hard


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha as expected  clieos's review did say only on IEM's past a certain point on that level will u hear anything
> I have the very similar HFI580's i expect good results either tmmrw or monday (depends if USPS wan'ts to get it to me fast or not    )
> 
> I have the Shure SRH440's and wow..haha. same with me sometimes. those really high songs...omg....they are near the level of harsh but more bright...but man..those things hit...and they hit upp there hard


 

 Bowei... I wanted to try out the E17 with my HFi 580. As you already know... I can't at the moment. I find I have to really put the volume on my iPhone 3G all the way up for the bass to sound nice n' prominent. Problem is the music is then too loud. Let me know how the E17 works with the HFi 580, give me a little sample before I get home. I want my bass!!!! The HFi 580 sound great to me on all other frequencies so far,,,


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





dl. said:


> If you can afford to shell out $60 more, then spend the extra and go for it. I definitely hear clear improvements when I upgraded from the E10 to the E17. At least the E17 doesn't have the 1ms audio cut that the E10 exhibits, which is quite annoying for OS sound alerts (i.e. new mail, empty trash).
> 
> dL


 


  You got one? not sure if you're the same person but I thought you just got a e10 recently! (ask a certain K.H.)
  Well, definitely am willing to give a go for the e17's. Waiting is the hard part


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Bowei... I wanted to try out the E17 with my HFi 580. As you already know... I can't at the moment. I find I have to really put the volume on my* iPhone 3G all the way up for the bass to sound nice n' prominent. *Problem is the music is then too loud. Let me know how the E17 works with the HFi 580, give me a little sample before I get home. I want my bass!!!! The HFi 580 sound great to me on all other frequencies so far,,,


 
  you either read what i wrote in some thread i wrote in ...but that's exactly what i said..maybe in my review or something but yeah same with me  the bolded part that is. i'm looking forward to using FiiO's clean bass boost as well 
   
  Will do, I will be running with optical out from Macbook Pro with CD ripped lossless tracks from 16/44.1 to 24/192
  with this bad boy
   
   


Spoiler: Optical%20CAble%20pic






   
  @UnityisPower
  This is an addon Edit....i see you have had both the DJ1 pro's and E11's but returned/sold them. but you have now bought the E17 and love the HFI 580 which is the same as the DJ1(not pro) ...wow.. ??? elaboration?


----------



## MickeyVee

There's volume and there is dynamics.  The E7/E9 definitely had the volume but I found the dynamics compressed.  Also found it a little harsh, especially with the HD600's.  Moved to the HD650's and it was a little better but not much.  Heard the HD650's through a modded Little Dot III and was blown away (dynamic, open and airy)
  Back to this thread.. Tried the E10 with the 650's last night and was pleasantly surprised.  If I had not heard anything else, I'd be quite happy with it.  If the E17 is really better, it should be nice with your HD580's.  Try it with and with without the E9 and let us know what you think.

  
  Quote: 





steelle said:


> Uh oh. I plan to use the E17 on my HD580s (same driver as the HD600s), but if you didnt even like the E7+E9 for HD600s...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kcuFdlO

Ok, so call me slow...
   
  I'm not the tech guy just a user.
   
  The HP-P1 has a Digital line in from an ipod, pad or phone to the DAC section.
   
  Since the DAC and Amp in the e17 are better than the "i" products I have two clear and simple questions.
   
  1) Can a Digital out cable like the one used on the HP-P1 be used to feed the DAC of the e17 directly from the "i" device bypassing the DAC and Amp in the "i" device and using the e17 completely.
   
  2) where can one of these connectors be purchased, and why doesn't Fiio include one?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kcufdlo said:


> 1) Can a Digital out cable like the one used on the HP-P1 be used to feed the DAC of the e17 directly from the "i" device bypassing the DAC and Amp in the "i" device and using the e17 completely.
> 
> 2) where can one of these connectors be purchased, and why doesn't Fiio include one?


 
   
  No. To enable digital-out from iDevice, you need a special chip from Apple. The reason HP-P1 (and CLAS) can get digital signal out from iDevice is because they pay Apple for that special chip and the license to use it. Since E17 doesn't have that chip, it won't work at all.
   
  As for why FiiO doesn't get that chip, the reason is simple - cost. There is a reason why HP-P1 and CLAS are so expensive.


----------



## weitn

I have bought a HD650 a month ago and have been using it with my iPhone 4 without any amp. I have just ordered a E17 (it is on the way, probably will receive it today). I just wonder whether the E17 will be able to drive the HD650? How does the HD650 sound with E17? I don't expect the E17 to drive HD650 to its full potential (I don't know how the HD650 sound like when it is drive to its full potential, never have the chance to hear that) but will it drive HD650 to almost or near its full potential? Is E17 one of the best amp (or the best amp) for the $150 price range?


----------



## bowei006

^if someone could answer how the E17 would do for eitn that would be great. but anyway. eitn. there are some posts mentioneing the HD650 here. look around
   
  Got the E17...wow. just wow. you know those times when u imagine the EQ. how it will make all the stuff you want. come out?...this EQ does that


----------



## hartphoto

Also just received my E17.  
   
  Very, very nice piece of equipment.  Solid feel, great layout of menus and buttons.  Build quality is top shelf all the way.
   
  Using it with a FiiO L3 from my iPhone 4, into a set of UE TF10s.  Playing music through the EQu app (a very nice equalizer app for the iPhone/iPod touch/iPad).
   
  Listening to many of my 'go to' tracks right now.....will report after spending a few quality hours with it.....
   
  One question though, can it be charged using the iPhone wall charger (with the FiiO supplied cable)?  Instead of plugging into a USB port?  iPhone wall charger puts out 5v at 1 amp into the USB connection....  I looked around this thread (yes, searched), but didn't see this answered.  And, the thread is too long now (52 pages with my setup) to read it all.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> Also just received my E17.
> 
> Very, very nice piece of equipment.  Solid feel, great layout of menus and buttons.  Build quality is top shelf all the way.
> 
> ...


 

 i agree. very solid  very nice! love it 
   
  I'm pretty sure it can be charged with iphone wall charger...that's how i used to charge my E5
   
   
  any bass lover here with a pair of bassy cans that are great with everything..but needs that low sometimes that you know ti can give.? The E17 is the savior..espeically for the HFI580 ....i can tell you guys right now. with bass boost.....this thing has...some serious XB500 qualities to it


----------



## gohanssjn

Just got mine, tried it on the PC and love it so far.  Will post a more detailed impression later or in a few days.
   
  One thing on mine: the silk screened 'FiiO' on the front has black gunk in it, lol.  Almost like a small finger print... mine is personalized!


----------



## donuthead

I was poking around last week and found out the E17 was coming and it seemed like such a good product with so many features for the money, it was a no brainer. I was thinking of getting a small portable amp like a cmoy along with a Nuforce UDAC-2 to get my feet wet, but after doing the math the E17 did the same as both and then some.
   
  I picked one up earlier on this week from Charles at the headfoneshop.ca in person without hearing it, even though he offered.   I knew it would do what I wanted and have no regrets, considering how short money it is.  I'm currently using it with my iPod touch using the line out through the dock connector and a set of HD25-1 IIs.
   
  It sounds so much cleaner and detailed. The bass is so much more controlled, midrange seems so much warmer and unmuffled (direct though the ipod's headphone out, it sounds like the artist is too close to the microphone) and the highs sparkle a lot more. It really makes music more enjoyable to listen to. And I haven't even used the digital input yet.....


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Just got mine, tried it on the PC and love it so far.  Will post a more detailed impression later or in a few days.
> 
> One thing on mine: the silk screened 'FiiO' on the front has black gunk in it, lol.  Almost like a small finger print... mine is personalized!


 


  haha.. personalized  i take it you don't care really and wouldn't dare to part for another 4 weeks to get a non personalized one 
   
  love mine too 


  Quote: 





donuthead said:


> I was poking around last week and found out the E17 was coming and it seemed like such a good product with so many features for the money, it was a no brainer. I was thinking of getting a small portable amp like a cmoy along with a Nuforce UDAC-2 to get my feet wet, but after doing the math the E17 did the same as both and then some.
> 
> I picked one up earlier on this week from Charles at the headfoneshop.ca in person without hearing it, even though he offered.   I knew it would do what I wanted and have no regrets, considering how short money it is.  I'm currently using it with my iPod touch using the line out through the dock connector and a set of HD25-1 IIs.
> 
> It sounds so much cleaner and detailed. The bass is so much more controlled, midrange seems so much warmer and unmuffled (direct though the ipod's headphone out, it sounds like the artist is too close to the microphone) and the highs sparkle a lot more. It really makes music more enjoyable to listen to. And I haven't even used the digital input yet.....


 

 haha. you are loving it a lot too   i love how u are all. i knew it was going to be awesoem.....and it is 
   
   
   
  Anyway: pics and more pics
    
   
   


Spoiler: E17%20pics!


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Well shame on me.  I thought according to the USPS tracker that I would receive my FiiO E17 today or Monday.  I go to check the mailbox and it came yesterday, Doh!
   
  The package was ripped and the USPS had marked it damaged upon receipt and unsealed.  Just my luck, drat!  I opened what was left of the packaging and nothing seemed to be damaged.  I listened to it shortly from the USB input from my PC running 24/96kHz and the sound is amazing and the user functions are fluid and easy.  This product is top notch for such a small amount of $ with regards to the build quality, looks, user functions and sound quality.  They actually cleaned up my Westone ES5s a bit with the adjustable treble and bass controls.  Overall I am extremely happy and cannot wait to go to work and use it while flying to pass the time.
   
  The only question that I am wondering about is why only package six rubber feet, not eight?  Is there anyway to purchase more, since I want to be able to protect the front and back once I start banding it to my iPhone4S.
   
  Thanks FiiO for an excellnt product!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> Well shame on me.  I thought according to the USPS tracker that I would receive my FiiO E17 today or Monday.  I go to check the mailbox and it came yesterday, Doh!
> 
> The package was ripped and the USPS had marked it damaged upon receipt and unsealed.  Just my luck, drat!  I opened what was left of the packaging and nothing seemed to be damaged.  I listened to it shortly from the USB input from my PC running 24/96kHz and the sound is amazing and the user functions are fluid and easy.  This product is top notch for such a small amount of $ with regards to the build quality, looks, user functions and sound quality.  They actually cleaned up my Westone ES5s a bit with the adjustable treble and bass controls.  Overall I am extremely happy and cannot wait to go to work and use it while flying to pass the time.
> 
> ...


 


  so is USPS giving u refund 
   
  glad you like it too 
   
  I am currently banding it with my touch as you can see in pics above....why need the feet? to create a ...space from the iphone to E17? well i have a case on my touch so i guess i am safe. and with the bands on...this thing is basically anti slip already!


----------



## intendedUser

Just got my E17. Been plugged it into my laptop through USB for the past 45 min. The red light is on, which I'm guessing means its charging. But the thing won't turn on. Is this normal?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha.. personalized  i take it you don't care really and wouldn't dare to part for another 4 weeks to get a non personalized one


 
   
  Yeah, if there was ANY kind of mechanical or sound defect I would return it, but not for a bad silk screen job, lol.


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Just got my E17. Been plugged it into my laptop through USB for the past 45 min. The red light is on, which I'm guessing means its charging. But the thing won't turn on. Is this normal?


 
   
  Mine would not turn on either (It would turn on, then right back off with the "bye bye"), till I had a significant charge on mine.  All is good now.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Just got my E17. Been plugged it into my laptop through USB for the past 45 min. The red light is on, which I'm guessing means its charging. But the thing won't turn on. Is this normal?


 


  when i first got mine. it was a bit tricky trning it one too. it's easy to use now. i guess it's bc you don't fully understand how this thing works yet.


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Yeah, if there was ANY kind of mechanical or sound defect I would return it, but not for a bad silk screen job, lol.


 


  haha yeah, but it seems like there isn't so all is good
   
   
  Foodforthought:The E17 with my HFI580's whe with the EQ on, at 6dB gain gets a slight hissing sound at around 30. it is gone with EQ off. not really a problem at all though.


----------



## kalbee

Just wondering guys, when you band the e17 to a touch screen device, how much of the screen gets blocked? (bowei006 please flip your rig over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the e17 is definitely the star here but I'm just wondering how well the source can still be accessed).
   
  Also, is the use of LOD a big step up from the, say, iPhone's aux out (or headphone out, whichever that one is)? Is it something you can definitely hear, or is it more subtle and something you definitely 'feel' instead?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha yeah, but it seems like there isn't so all is good


 

 Turns out it was some kind of sticker residue.  Under the resisue that I pulled off with some packing tape it does reflect silver in the light at _some _angles, but now it doesn't look dirty


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Just wondering guys, when you band the e17 to a touch screen device, how much of the screen gets blocked? (bowei006 please flip your rig over
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  i'll help you out man 
   
  yes, i belive the LOD is great. it improves clarity, less hiss, less distortion, and doesn't dual amp  it's cheap and looks more pro and less messy 
   
  here is what i did

   
  i had it done like this. the bottom part(near the LOD) is positioned so it won't block touch screen control and home key. and the top part is positioned so it lets you see the screen the so on the touch you still get access to everything. i will show you in the next few pics
   

  as you can see. i have it so i can slide to unlock and just above home key.
   

   
  as you can now see. i have access to play pause, next button on bottom. and i can scrub through the song(my first try i did it too high and couldn't scrub through song).
   

   
  the band covers part of the screen but it is the best part to cover. i use the side scroll a lot and only a few are covered. i just side scroll to like I if i want to get an H song and just scroll up. not hard. the now playing is there. and it works 
   
  i hope i helped man.a nyone wondering how to do it ,,,,this is it . some suggest using *double sided 3M tape or velcro tape*:/ i have done the 3M double sided tape before. it worked well but i might want removable sometimes. the velcro doesnt seem too sturdy, but is a viable option as well and i guess velcro done right is very good. so those are other options. also keep in note i have a case on the touch. this not only allows it to be removable from the e17 even if i use 3M double sided tape but also so it provides a plastic buffer between the *metal back of touch and metal *finish of E17 so they wont'* scratch!*
   
*Photo's taken with an iPhone 4S*


----------



## koremora

Mine came in the mail today. From a completely uninformed, this-is-my-first-amp/DAC position, it sounds ******* fantastic with my DT770 Pro-80s. Makes my 320 mp3s sound pretty dang close to vinyl.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





koremora said:


> Mine came in the mail today. From a completely uninformed, this-is-my-first-amp/DAC position, it sounds ******* fantastic with my DT770 Pro-80s. Makes my 320 mp3s sound pretty dang close to vinyl.


 


  haha. wait tilll you get CD ripps  


   
   

   
  wow. optical, usb, and aux in. i love the input switch  i can now use otpical for music. usb for charing and aux when i want to just pick up and go portable


----------



## steelle

Quote:


mickeyvee said:


> There's volume and there is dynamics.  The E7/E9 definitely had the volume but I found the dynamics compressed.  Also found it a little harsh, especially with the HD600's.  Moved to the HD650's and it was a little better but not much.  Heard the HD650's through a modded Little Dot III and was blown away (dynamic, open and airy)
> Back to this thread.. Tried the E10 with the 650's last night and was pleasantly surprised.  If I had not heard anything else, I'd be quite happy with it.  If the E17 is really better, it should be nice with your HD580's.  Try it with and with without the E9 and let us know what you think.


 

  
  Well the HD600/650s are said to scale really well with the better amps, and are especially known to shine with tubes.  The sound you described from the Little Dot III is exactly the sound signature that I love most about them, so I hope the E17 can achieve a similar sound.  I don't have the E9, it will just be the E17, which is why I was wondering if that alone would be enough to drive them.  Still haven't put my order in yet so you'll be receiving yours long before I do; I'll be looking forward to your review


----------



## intendedUser

I got it to work! The hold switch was down. Thats why I couldn't turn the darn thing on. I know... kinda stupid.
   
  Anyways, this is my first dac and amp. The first thing I noticed is that it layers the different frequencies just right. Nothing is too harsh or dim. Everything sounds much more roomy, airy. Definitely makes the most of my ath m50. Will definitely post more impressions once I log more hours on this.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> I got it to work! The hold switch was down. Thats why I couldn't turn the darn thing on. I know... kinda stupid.
> 
> Anyways, this is my first dac and amp. The first thing I noticed is that it layers the different frequencies just right. Nothing is too harsh or dim. Everything sounds much more roomy, airy. Definitely makes the most of my ath m50. Will definitely post more impressions once I log more hours on this.


 


  i forgot to add to my post that that was what was wrong with mine too  i guess i could have saved you like an hour if i put that in. but at the time. i couldn't remember what it was that wouldn't let me turn it on...oh yeah..that darn hold switch. if you think about it. it's a good idea for fiio to leave them on hold. so your thing won't turn on through it's journery.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i forgot to add to my post that that was what was wrong with mine too  i guess i could have saved you like an hour if i put that in. but at the time. i couldn't remember what it was that wouldn't let me turn it on...oh yeah..that darn hold switch. if you think about it. it's a good idea for fiio to leave them on hold. so your thing won't turn on through it's journery.


 

 It would be great if there was a post teaching E17 new users using its different functions. 
  I am still waiting for my E17


----------



## intendedUser

Once you get it to turn on, then its a breeze. First time you press the Menu button, you will see the settings for treble, bass and balance in that order. You scroll down, and you'll see gain (0db, 6db, 12db) - this mostly depends on the impedance of your headphone, usb charging (on/off), sleep, max vol, vol memory, system (fw, runtime, default set) (can somebody explain what that is?). Below the menu button, you have the input button where you toggle between the zillion inputs that this beast has. And below that is that darn hold switch.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> It would be great if there was a post teaching E17 new users using its different functions.
> I am still waiting for my E17


 

 .....fine. i'll do it:
  When you first get it. flick the hold button to the top so the orange inside isn't showing. now press the power button. and voila. it's now on. what are you using it with?
   
  ipod/pmp: ok then plug ur LOD or 3.5mm output cable from ur device into the AUX thing on the bottom of the E17. next press the "input" button and switch it to "AUX"
   
  Computer through USB: Take that USB cable that came with the E17. plug the large regular USB end into the computer and the smaller end into the bottom of the E17. Switch E17 to USB mode through the Input switch
   
  Computer through S/PDIF: tthere are two adapters it comes with. plug in the one you need. next plug ur middle man cable into the adapter u just plugeed into E17. next plug the end of the cable into your computer. either directly or with another adapter if it needs it(macbook pro requires another 3.5mm toslink to minitoslink adapter) switch E17 input mode to either COX or OPT depending on what you are doing.
   
  The menu button on the E17 is an menu button and let's you enter into a setting. so when u first press it. from the main screen. it will enter it's settings screen where all the EQ, gain etc are. you move up and down with the volume keys. you enter into a setting's sub menu by pressing.. the "menu" key. you raise or lower EQ with the volume buttons. you press the "on/exit"button to exit back one step....that's really it
   
  while using USB and or SPDI/F be sre to set your computers playback device to the E17. in windows..it's playback devices. in Mac. it's automatic. you need to then manually change your smapling and dynamic range with the settings in the playback devices menu in windows and you change the sampling and dynamic range with the "audio midi setup" on osx(it's built in, search it) 
   
  any questipons?


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> while using USB and or SPDI/F be sre to set your computers playback device to the E17. in windows..it's playback devices. *in Mac. it's automatic*. you need to then manually change your smapling and dynamic range with the settings in the playback devices menu in windows and you change the sampling and dynamic range with the "audio midi setup" on osx(it's built in, search it)
> 
> any questipons?


 

 On my Mac, I have to go to System Preferences, Audio, and select Fiio as my output device.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> On my Mac, I have to go to System Preferences, Audio, and select Fiio as my output device.


 


  sorry. i was in a rush. i meant S/PDIF is automatic. but yes. you need to use system prefrences output for USB selection on Mac. thanks for adding that intended User 
   
  i'm extremely tech savvy....but i don't see how anyone could really mess this up or not get it to work. you just have to select it as output device and change sampling and dynamic range on ur computer...that is it.


----------



## intendedUser

Hey bowei006, what settings do you have in the Audio MIDI Setup? Recommendations?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Hey bowei006, what settings do you have in the Audio MIDI Setup? Recommendations?


 



   
  after a quck google search on how to get 192KHz it seems you can't. OSX limits it to 96KHz  Windows booters are able to get 192KHz. i'm using optical out right now  and charging with USB.
   
  i leave it on 24bit regardless of whether my tracks are 16bit or 24 bit. realy ..i din't have to touch them. when i first opened up midi the first time it was set to.....i think 48KHz(i think) i set and am now just gonna keep it on 96KHz regardless of wheteher my otpcal is in or not. i will plug into my PC later today to see how 192 KHz does


----------



## intendedUser

Thanks bro


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Thanks bro


 


  i added this part in an edit. don't know if you read it:
i leave it on 24bit regardless of whether my tracks are 16bit or 24 bit. realy ..i din't have to touch them. when i first opened up midi the first time it was set to.....i think 48KHz(i think) i set and am now just gonna keep it on 96KHz regardless of wheteher my otpcal is in or not. i will plug into my PC later today to see how 192 KHz does 
   
i did extensive research on this and document.s...anyone else notice and LOl'd at this?

   
  it's fiio's official E17 documentation on their site
  http://www.fiio.com.cn/upfile/File/2012/20120107161255.pdf
   
  it takes a bit to load
   
   
  silly fiio  USB on E17 doesn't support 192KHz  hahah maybe they were going to do 192KHz through USB at first when they made this but changed their minds(cost) and decided not to..but just left this


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> silly fiio  USB on E17 doesn't support 192KHz  hahah maybe they were going to do 192KHz through USB at first when they made this but changed their minds(cost) and decided not to..but just left this


 

 Haha... nice catch dude!


----------



## intendedUser

Oooooo. First glitch! Its a very very small detail, so don't start getting concerned people. That fact that this is the only glitch I could find so far is a good thing.
   
  Ok, so it may even be specific to my unit. But... when you haven't changed the volume for a while, and then you suddenly hit one of the volume buttons, it doesn't change on the first press. After that its fine, no problem. Now wait a couple of seconds, and change the volume again. Huh? Wat up FiiO? (Or is it just me? )


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Oooooo. First glitch! Its a very very small detail, so don't start getting concerned people. That fact that this is the only glitch I could find so far is a good thing.
> 
> Ok, so it may even be specific to my unit. But... when you haven't changed the volume for a minute, and then you suddenly hit one of the volume buttons, it doesn't change on the first press. After that its fine, no problem. Now wait a couple of seconds, and change the volume again. Huh? Wat up FiiO? (Or is it just me? )


 
  i think that's built into the firmware. i see lot's of devices that don't do the first press after unlock,boot,or set period of inactive time. :/ 
   
  one question....when the heck does charging end!!!! ahh i'ts plugged into my mac and playing music. so the thing is blue and purple. i turn it off sometimes to see ...and it's red..meaning charging. i started charging at 4:00! it's now 8:30!! Y U NO!


----------



## intendedUser

Aaaah. That sounds about right. I back down people! This thing is perfect! (........so far )


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Aaaah. That sounds about right. I back down people! This thing is perfect!


 


  i guess you thought about it and also realize there are/many devices that do that. i can't pinpoint or remember which one's i've ever used that do...but ..it's that feeling that it's normal ya know. :/
   
  now...stupid charging!  Y U NO be done!


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i think that's built into the firmware. i see lot's of devices that don't do the first press after unlock,boot,or set period of inactive time. :/
> 
> one question....when the heck does charging end!!!! ahh i'ts plugged into my mac and playing music. so the thing is blue and purple. i turn it off sometimes to see ...and it's red..meaning charging. i started charging at 4:00! it's now 8:30!! Y U NO!


 

 Mine took about 3 hours, but the USB ports on my motherboard charge at a 3x rate of normal ones (they give 450mA instead of 150mA).  They also charge items hooked up when the desktop is off   Handy feature.
   
  But I'd give it at least 6 hours if you have other things hooked up via USB while charging.  The amount of available power is sometimes split among ports at the hub's base (even an internal hub).


----------



## JustinGN

Loving my E17 thus far, though it's not playing nice with my E9 Amp via the dock connector.  Running a line from the E17 headphone jack to the E9 line-in at the moment until I can fix the problem, which seems to have existed since the old E7/E9 days:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/540221/fiio-e7-e9-windows-7/


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Mine took about 3 hours, but the USB ports on my motherboard charge at a 3x rate of normal ones (they give 450mA instead of 150mA).  They also charge items hooked up when the desktop is off   Handy feature.
> 
> But I'd give it at least 6 hours if you have other things hooked up via USB while charging.  The amount of available power is sometimes split among ports at the hub's base (even an internal hub).


 

 im chargin with macbook pro and charging iphone...wait..my iphone...*unplugs*!! i forgot i had it plugged in!!! rawr..next time. this is plugging into an iphone's charger!
   


  Quote: 





justingn said:


> Loving my E17 thus far, though it's not playing nice with my E9 Amp via the dock connector.  Running a line from the E17 headphone jack to the E9 line-in at the moment until I can fix the problem, which seems to have existed since the old E7/E9 days:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/540221/fiio-e7-e9-windows-7/


 

 really? are u using LO bypass? not that it seems to be what your problem is or could cause the problem


----------



## intendedUser

How do you even find out if its done charging?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> How do you even find out if its done charging?


 


  The red light went off on mine when charging was complete.
   
  And guys, I think we may be missing the most important question here:  did you put on any rubber feet?


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> The red light went off on mine when charging was complete.
> 
> And guys, I think we may be missing the most important question here:  did you put on any rubber feet?


 

 I tried! The darn thing doesn't stay on! Solutions?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> I tried! The darn thing doesn't stay on! Solutions?


 


  The feet didn't stick?  Well that's useless, lol.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> How do you even find out if its done charging?


 


   
  same question
  
  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> The red light went off on mine when charging was complete.
> 
> And guys, I think we may be missing the most important question here:  did you put on any rubber feet?


 
  im currently using it too. i hope the light just goes to blue (from blurple) so i will know
   
  nope. i used a case on my touch so i didn't need to use the rubber feet to create a buffer zone between DAP and amp(so metal won't scrath) and since i am using bands..it is already no slip. the device itself slips though. so i might put plastic feet on back of E17 so it won't move around too too much later


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> The feet didn't stick?  Well that's useless, lol.


 

 I even tried licking the bottom to see if it was anything like the glue on envelopes. No luck


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> same question
> 
> im currently using it too. i hope the light just goes to blue (from blurple) so i will know
> 
> nope. i used a case on my touch so i didn't need to use the rubber feet to create a buffer zone between DAP and amp(so metal won't scrath) and since i am using bands..it is already no slip. the device itself slips though. so i might put plastic feet on back of E17 so it won't move around too too much later


 

 Well I have a 'soft touch' case on my iPod touch, but even in bands the E17 slides a bit on the back.
   
  Man, the DAC in this is nice.  Desktop sounds even better than the iPod at the moment.
   
  I do wish the 'Vol. Save' feature saved the different levels for each input.

 EDIT:  Oh yeah, I let mine charge only.  No use when charging it so it might have been faster.


----------



## gohanssjn

My other 'securing to a source' idea was to go out and buy a bunch of velcro dots.  Put the rough dots on the E17.  Then attach soft dots to them, then press onto a source.  Peel off, place new soft dots on the E17 hard dots, repeat for all sources.  At least then the sources would all have soft dots on them for pocketing without the source.
   
  I dunno....
   
  Also, does anyone else's OLED screen have a scan line on it when refreshing?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Well I have a 'soft touch' case on my iPod touch, but even in bands the E17 slides a bit on the back.
> 
> Man, the DAC in this is nice.  Desktop sounds even better than the iPod at the moment.
> 
> ...


 
  haha the DAC IS nice. it's a wolfson. and im using optical..even better 
   
  im using and charging
  
   


  Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> I even tried licking the bottom to see if it was anything like the glue on envelopes. No luck


 


  haha...really lick didn't work? hmm i need to check this out tmmrw when i try it. i think ur smiley face is backwards 


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> My other 'securing to a source' idea was to go out and buy a bunch of velcro dots.  Put the rough dots on the E17.  Then attach soft dots to them, then press onto a source.  Peel off, place new soft dots on the E17 hard dots, repeat for all sources.  At least then the sources would all have soft dots on them for pocketing without the source.
> 
> I dunno....
> 
> Also, does anyone else's OLED screen have a scan line on it when refreshing?


 
  ahah that's a good idea. i talked about velcro a couple pages back
   
  yep i do. i noticed it. doesn't really bother me. sometimes it's smooth. other times. lines of pixels dissapear from diff sections of the screen when refreshing...i don't really care. fiio needed a cheap screen and it works. i haven't heard of any problems on the E7 so im not worrying.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> yep i do. i noticed it. doesn't really bother me. sometimes it's smooth. other times. lines of pixels dissapear from diff sections of the screen when refreshing...i don't really care. fiio needed a cheap screen and it works. i haven't heard of any problems on the E7 so im not worrying.


 

 Cool, I figured it was normal, but I wanted to check.
   
  My desktop and laptop don't have optical, so I wont be using that a lot.
   
  And the SPDIF connector on my soundcard only does 24/96 anyway.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Cool, I figured it was normal, but I wanted to check.
> 
> My desktop and laptop don't have optical, so I wont be using that a lot.
> 
> And the SPDIF connector on my soundcard only does 24/96 anyway.


 

 haha yeah. i thought about asking too. it's too perfect...we need to call out every blemish...quick!
   
  AHAHHHH theres a spec of dirt on the screen!!!! imperfection!!!
   
  ahah. both my laptop and desktop have optical. my macbook pro only supports 96KHz(OSX limits it) but my desktop(windows) does 192KHz  wooooo


----------



## intendedUser

Is the headphone out ok for computer speakers? Any recommended settings? Or would it be better to get a L7 and bypass the amp altogether?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Is the headphone out ok for computer speakers? Any recommended settings? Or would it be better to get a L7 and bypass the amp altogether?


 


  Computer-->E17--L7--->active speakers would be best
   
  if you had a PMP and at a friends house
   
  PMP+E17-->Active speakers would do.
   
  only diff is. active speakers (most of time) have thier own built in amps. dual amping...is not audiophile recommended i guess.


----------



## nobelleng

New Head-fier here.
   
  Brought the E17.. and run digital out from my working pc... I would say this little box is really amazing...
   
  Bands instruments is awesome clear..
   
  Got E11 as well but felt E17 sound much fuller... might be because of the DAC.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





nobelleng said:


> New Head-fier here.
> 
> Brought the E17.. and run digital out from my working pc... I would say this little box is really amazing...
> 
> ...


 
  yeah the E11 does not have an DAC and all the other fancy new improvements on the E17  . The Wolfson WM8740 DAC is used in models up to $400 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  and as customary o head-fi:
 *"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet"*


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Computer-->E17--L7--->active speakers would be best
> 
> if you had a PMP and at a friends house
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmm. Got it. I guess anything with a volume knob has some kind of amp in it. I have a Bose Companion 3 (did not pay for it. uncle left it ). And they don't sound too bad directly out of the computer. And I really can't tell the difference when its plugged into the E17 headphone out.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Hmm. Got it. I guess anything with a volume knob has some kind of amp in it. I have a Bose Companion 3 (did not pay for it. uncle left it ). And they don't sound too bad directly out of the computer. And I really can't tell the difference when its plugged into the E17 headphone out.


 
  active speakers are usually 4 or 8 ohms. that's not in the supported impendance of E17. if you read up on impendance. it's nothing bad really. but for audiophiles it has slight artifact effects that could happen from this. and...most don't want to dual amp


----------



## intendedUser

My baby's finally done charging! That took a while lol! I've been using it this whole time though. ( ~6 hours)
   
  And thanks, bowei006.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> My baby's finally done charging! That took a while lol! I've been using it this whole time though. ( ~6 hours)
> 
> And thanks, bowei006.


 

 6 hours! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  wow.. so ur using it right...and it's blurple...when it's done charging. does it go to blue?


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 6 hours!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes it does.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Where is the safest site to buy the E17? Can't find it anywhere. 

 I found mp4nation but is it legit? And what is their return policy?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Yes it does.


 

 still no dice with mine :/
   
  Y U NO TURN BLUE!


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Where is the safest site to buy the E17? Can't find it anywhere.
> 
> I found mp4nation but is it legit? And what is their return policy?


 

 http://www.fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx
   
  That should give you a list of all the "legit" re-sellers of the E17.
   
  If you're in the US, Miccastore is a good place to get it. Their first batch is sold out. Second batch arrives in mid-february. mp4nation is definitely legit, but I don't know about availability.


----------



## Blueiz

Second miccastore.com...  they usually thow in some extras... optical cable and such... they only display items that are in stock, so have to keep checking. I believe they are in Virginia and they ship FAST.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Where is the safest site to buy the E17? Can't find it anywhere.
> 
> I found mp4nation but is it legit? And what is their return policy?


 


  it is legit. only problem is the fact it is in china. that is really the only reason why about 1/10 reviews for it are bad. i would recommend waiting until miccastore gets it back in stock(late february) mp4nation gets in stock in mid february since it's already in china. only diff is you can't preorder on miccastore(i am willing to bet it will be sold out again. headphonebar, and miccastore and the others sold out within hours on the 24th and now that fame has gotten high...yeah) there is currently no trace of it on the miccastore. they removed it after sold out since they dont do pre orders.


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> still no dice with mine :/
> 
> Y U NO TURN BLUE!


 

 Any minute now.......


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





blueiz said:


> Second miccastore.com...  they usually thow in some extras... optical cable and such... they only display items that are in stock, so have to keep checking. I believe they are in Virginia and they ship FAST.


 
  hha i bought it about a bit micca store officially announced on twitter that they had it. and after i bought it and the hype adrenaline and sugar stopped. i posted here and on availbility thread. and yeah. i got a great deal. i love the fiio shirt 
  
   


  Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Any minute now.......


 

 >_< but stil no!!


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> ...
> One question though, can it be charged using the iPhone wall charger (with the FiiO supplied cable)?  Instead of plugging into a USB port?  iPhone wall charger puts out 5v at 1 amp into the USB connection....  I looked around this thread (yes, searched), but didn't see this answered.  And, the thread is too long now (52 pages with my setup) to read it all.
> ...


 

 Any USB charger that puts out 5V / 500mA should be more than enough to charge E17.
   


  Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> ...  The only question that I am wondering about is why only package six rubber feet, not eight?  Is there anyway to purchase more, since I want to be able to protect the front and back once I start banding it to my iPhone4S.
> ...


 
  You can get your own rubber feet from DIY / home improvement store easily. FiiO includes 6 but all you need is 4. The extra 2 is just, well, extra.
  

  
  Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Once you get it to turn on, then its a breeze. First time you press the Menu button, you will see the settings for treble, bass and balance in that order. You scroll down, and you'll see gain (0db, 6db, 12db) - this mostly depends on the impedance of your headphone, usb charging (on/off), sleep, max vol, vol memory, system (fw, runtime, default set) (can somebody explain what that is?). Below the menu button, you have the input button where you toggle between the zillion inputs that this beast has. And below that is that darn hold switch.


 
  Use the lowest gain needed. If you can't get enough volume, then change it to a higher gain. For most headphone, 6dB should suffice.
  
   


  Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Ok, so it may even be specific to my unit. But... when you haven't changed the volume for a while, and then you suddenly hit one of the volume buttons, it doesn't change on the first press. After that its fine, no problem. Now wait a couple of seconds, and change the volume again. Huh? Wat up FiiO? (Or is it just me? )


 
  It is to avoid any accidental press on the volume bottom.
  
   


  Quote: 





justingn said:


> Loving my E17 thus far, though it's not playing nice with my E9 Amp via the dock connector.  Running a line from the E17 headphone jack to the E9 line-in at the moment until I can fix the problem, which seems to have existed since the old E7/E9 days:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/540221/fiio-e7-e9-windows-7/


 

 Could be the dock connector on the E9. Maybe it is dusty?

  
  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> And guys, I think we may be missing the most important question here:  did you put on any rubber feet?


 
  There should be double sided tape under the rubber feet. You might have peer it off when you remove the rubber feet from the rubber pad.

  
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> active speakers are usually 4 or 8 ohms. that's not in the supported impendance of E17. if you read up on impendance. it's nothing bad really. but for audiophiles it has slight artifact effects that could happen from this. and...most don't want to dual amp


 
  Active (self-powered) speakers don't have too low of an impedance. Passive speakers are. Active speakers have its own power amp inside so it doesn't care what kind of source it is connected to as these source do not drive the speaker directly.


----------



## intendedUser

There he is. The great ClieOS! I love how you randomly pop up and answer everybody's questions all in one post! Thanks a lot man. Appreciate it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> There he is! The great ClieOS. I love how you randomly pop up and answer everybody's questions all in one post! Thanks a lot man. Appreciate it.


 


  tape on rubber slip things were a big help to me  and yeah 
   
  do any of you here have *ultrasone's*!? well if you do. pop that demo CD in. rip it in whatever lossless format you want...and play the songs. i recommend EQ treble +4 to +6 and bass at 0. i recommend the classical peices and fruerwork2002...wow. just wow with E17..just wow.


----------



## mrAdrian

I know which CD you are talking about  I love the wave song and the first weird jazz kinda song.
   
  Interesting how you find the HFI580 to be lacking in treble? When I had my DJ1 and Fiio E5 I used to put some bass boost ON because they respond so well to EQing.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> tape on rubber slip things were a big help to me  and yeah
> 
> do any of you here have *ultrasone's*!? well if you do. pop that demo CD in. rip it in whatever lossless format you want...and play the songs. i recommend EQ treble +4 to +6 and bass at 0. i recommend the classical peices and fruerwork2002...wow. just wow with E17..just wow.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> There he is. The great ClieOS! I love how you randomly pop up and answer everybody's questions all in one post! Thanks a lot man. Appreciate it.


 

 I don't randomly pop up, just taking the time off to eat and sleep...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> I know which CD you are talking about  I love the wave song and the first weird jazz kinda song.
> 
> Interesting how you find the HFI580 to be lacking in treble? When I had my DJ1 and Fiio E5 I used to put some bass boost ON because they respond so well to EQing.


 

 treble. if you read my HFI 580 review(it's the first review listed for most times you search HFI 580) i think s logic veils it a bit. so i like a bit more treble. im a vocal person 
   
  I love the wave song too. but it's a bit too complicated at times and the pops of fruerwork is just amazing 
   
   
   
  ]ok ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. i whip'd out my long mini sub to USB cable. plugged it into my main self built gaming desktop. and plugeed my E17 into it! ahhhh


----------



## gohanssjn

So, turning it off: do you all have to just press the Power/Exit button harder?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> So, turning it off: do you all have to just press the Power/Exit button harder?


 


  hold for 3 seconds instead of just instant push. a lot of things are like this.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hold for 3 seconds instead of just instant push. a lot of things are like this.


 


  I know, I asked because I also have to press harder for some reason, lol.

 EDIT:  And now it's not doing it, welp.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I know, I asked because I also have to press harder for some reason, lol.


 


  ?? i don't have too..maybe a sticky button?
   
  YES! after unplugging from MBP and plugging into my little monster (PC) it finished in half an hour hahahaha! yes


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The Wolfson WM8740 DAC is used in models up to $400
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Even higher priced units use the Wolfson 8740 - my Pico DAC/amp cost and still sells new for $500. But as we discussed earlier in the thread, just because the same DAC is used in multiple devices, it won't necessarily sound the same in all of them. It's all of the ancillary design and components that really determine the sound signature.
   
  Still, based on the reviews and the comments here, I have a pretty strong suspicion that the 8740 implementation in the E17 is very well done, producing an output that the amplifier section can really build on. I think I'll find that the E17 matches the output of my Pico pretty closely, but with the E17 having the extra amplification that the Pico is lacking.
  
  Alas I'll have to wait until sometime on Monday to confirm my suspicions. My E17 + E9 bundle is still sitting at the post office and won't be delivered until then.


----------



## gohanssjn

Huh.  Works fine on my desktop, through optical, with a line in and an iPod... but my laptop over USB just sends the sound PLUS a bunch of static and garbage.  What in the world...


----------



## nobelleng

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Huh.  Works fine on my desktop, through optical, with a line in and an iPod... but my laptop over USB just sends the sound PLUS a bunch of static and garbage.  What in the world...


 


  Did the driver installed properly? I tested both usb and optical source. works fine for me.
  Now listening on all my unplug album I have.... awesome


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Huh.  Works fine on my desktop, through optical, with a line in and an iPod... but my laptop over USB just sends the sound PLUS a bunch of static and garbage.  What in the world...


 


 Also check your USB cable as well.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> after a quck google search on how to get 192KHz it seems you can't. OSX limits it to 96KHz  Windows booters are able to get 192KHz. i'm using optical out right now  and charging with USB.
> 
> i leave it on 24bit regardless of whether my tracks are 16bit or 24 bit. realy ..i din't have to touch them. when i first opened up midi the first time it was set to.....i think 48KHz(i think) i set and am now just gonna keep it on 96KHz regardless of wheteher my otpcal is in or not. i will plug into my PC later today to see how 192 KHz does


 

  
  Where are you seeing OSX limits to 96KHz on MacBook Pros? I see technical specifications as far back as 2006 on MacBooks that support up to 192KHz for optical out.
  http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1562  <---- 2009
   
  I have a 2009 MacBook Pro and I checked Apple's documentation on MacBook and the Pro line and they both specify up to 192KHz for optical in and out, however I can only select 96KHz when plugged into the E17. Interesting.
   
  I'll try not to obsess over it. It's just weird I can't select it.


----------



## nobelleng

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Where are you seeing OSX limits to 96KHz on MacBook Pros? I see technical specifications as far back as 2006 on MacBooks that support up to 192KHz for optical out.
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1562  <---- 2009
> 
> I have a 2009 MacBook Pro and I checked Apple's documentation on MacBook and the Pro line and they both specify up to 192KHz for optical in and out, however I can only select 96KHz when plugged into the E17. Interesting.
> ...


 


  
*S/PDIF optical digital output*
  The S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) optical digital output is automatically selected when an S/PDIF optical digital output device is detected on the external combination audio port. The S/PDIF optical digital output supports pulse-code modulation (PCM) and Arc Consistency Algorithm #3 (AC-3) audio formats with the following stereo data stream characteristics:

 PCM: 16, 20, or 24 bits per sample at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96 kHz
 AC-3: 16 bits per sample at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz, or 192 kHz
  The S/PDIF optical output channel status conforms to International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) 60958-3 consumer mode digital audio.
  During playback of a 1 kHz sine wave (S/PDIF output format at 0 dBFS output level, 44.1 kHz sample rate, 24-bit sample depth, unless otherwise specified) the digital audio output has the following nominal specifications:

 Jack type: 3.5 mm (1/8-inch) stereo combo
 Digital audio signal-to-noise ratio (SNR): >130 dB
 Digital audio total harmonic distortion + noise (THD+N): <-130 dB (0.00003%)
   
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4619
   
  IMAC is affected not sure if same true for mac pro


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





nobelleng said:


> *S/PDIF optical digital output*
> The S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) optical digital output is automatically selected when an S/PDIF optical digital output device is detected on the external combination audio port. The S/PDIF optical digital output supports pulse-code modulation (PCM) and Arc Consistency Algorithm #3 (AC-3) audio formats with the following stereo data stream characteristics:
> 
> PCM: 16, 20, or 24 bits per sample at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96 kHz
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks. I'm going to assume the MacBook is affected as well. The specification page I linked only summarizes the capabilities and the page you linked itemizes it out a bit. In order to achieve that sampling rate I would have to have and AC3 passed through the Mac. Makes sense. Thanks again.


----------



## bowei006

Yeah the wolfson is done well in this 
   
  and yeah now we all know. Osx without any thing added puts out 96khz only. Bet someone is going to keep asking for the next year on why its not working though


----------



## Zetsumei

How does the dac compare to non portable desktop dacs, in regard to price and quality?
   
  I want to connect my home pc over digital out and over a line out connect my regular amp (quad 33/303 and ESL 57, and a pair of 598 or 650's over an E9)
  I want to connect my laptop over usb and drive a pair of 598's or 650's
  and basically I want to connect my phone over usb and drive a pair of 598's or 650's
   
  ---
  I just wonder if a E17+E9 will serve me well for my purposes, or that I would be better off looking for a desktop based Dac/Amp.
   
  I have about 300 to 400 euro  to spend on a dac/amp with some new cans and its just very difficult to choose.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zetsumei said:


> How does the dac compare to non portable desktop dacs, in regard to price and quality?
> 
> I want to connect my home pc over digital out and over a line out connect my regular amp (quad 33/303 and ESL 57, and a pair of 598 or 650's over an E9)
> I want to connect my laptop over usb and drive a pair of 598's or 650's
> ...


 


   
  There r better desktop dacs out there for what u want. The e17s good point is portability


----------



## Zetsumei

The thing is that portability is a big advantage for me so i can use the dac with my phone on the go. Its just hard making a decision without listening. The question is how much I gain or loose by going with an E17 + E9 over a dedicated desktop dac. I can always get a seperate desktop dac later as well. I just wonder how it generally compares to say seperate dacs.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





zetsumei said:


> How does the dac compare to non portable desktop dacs, in regard to price and quality?
> 
> I want to connect my home pc over digital out and over a line out connect my regular amp (quad 33/303 and ESL 57, and a pair of 598 or 650's over an E9)
> I want to connect my laptop over usb and drive a pair of 598's or 650's
> ...


 
   

  There are a number of desktop DACs that also use the Wolfson WM8740. That said, there's no grantee they'll sound the same due to different implementations. Lots of design factors can come into play. Another of my favorite DACs is the AK4396, also widely used because of its simple but effective implementation.
  
  That said, the Fiio engineers have been putting out some well received products. All of the comments and reviews on their products, combined with my own personal experiences, have led me to respect their design choices. The E17 + E9 bundle will b the first Fiio products that I'll have purchased for myself. I've always held off because I couldn't come to terms with the price/performance ratio they offer - how do they do it!?!?
   
  I hope to try my new setup with a friends HD650 very soon. As bowel006 said, the real advantage of the E17 itself is portability. Combined with the E9 and the eq functions of the E17, I suspect very good things to come when using them with harder to drive headphones like the HD650. Only a little more time will tell...


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





zetsumei said:


> How does the dac compare to non portable desktop dacs, in regard to price and quality?
> 
> I want to connect my home pc over digital out and over a line out connect my regular amp (quad 33/303 and ESL 57, and a pair of 598 or 650's over an E9)
> I want to connect my laptop over usb and drive a pair of 598's or 650's
> ...


 
  Look at something like the Audio-gd NFB12


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Also check your USB cable as well.


 
   
  I have checked every possible thing except another OS on the laptop, which I am in the process of doing now.  If that fixes it, I will try restoring an older Windows 7 backup I have to see if it was just a bad USB driver some where along the way.


----------



## tme110

That's an extream way to check for a bad driver (just delete the driver)
   
  you don't have access to another computer to use?


----------



## bowei006

...ok this sucks. i can't do 192KHz on my desktop PC >_< 
   
   
  but this really sucks....i forgot to check :!!!!!! i can only do 96KHz on SPDIF
   
   


> 16/20/24 bit S/PDIF TX Supports 24-bit, 44.1K/48K/96KHz Samples


----------



## tme110

That does suck.  I've only had fairly cheap computers and I've never seen that before.  What type of connection is your other spdif?
   
  But the e17 shows you the signal format it's decoding?  That's a very cool feature.  I wonder if it just pulls the info from the signal metadata or if it's the actually determined from the signal itself?  I also wonder if it could be saying it is receiving a signal at one level but actually down converting and decoding it at a lower level.  (I've seen DAC's play files at whatever level it wants without giving an indication that it downconverting.


----------



## Woosh

Hi guys
   
  sorry I'm quite new to all this technical stuff about 96khz and 192khz, can someone explain whether the E17 will be a good choice for a DAC+AMP combo for my Macbook Pro (2011)? I'm mainly playing music through iTunes mostly 320kbps stuff. 
   
  Thanks


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





woosh said:


> Hi guys
> 
> sorry I'm quite new to all this technical stuff about 96khz and 192khz, can someone explain whether the E17 will be a good choice for a DAC+AMP combo for my Macbook Pro (2011)? I'm mainly playing music through iTunes mostly 320kbps stuff.
> 
> Thanks


 

 It depends on your headphone, but as long as it's not an extremely-difficult-to-drive headphone, you should be completely satisfied with the E17.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Mine took about 3 hours, but the USB ports on my motherboard charge at a 3x rate of normal ones (they give 450mA instead of 150mA).  They also charge items hooked up when the desktop is off   Handy feature.
> 
> But I'd give it at least 6 hours if you have other things hooked up via USB while charging.  The amount of available power is sometimes split among ports at the hub's base (even an internal hub).


 

 I own a La Crosse Technology BC1000 battery charger. It is considered one of the best charger around. It has selectable charging current of 200, 500, 700, 1000, 1500 and 1800 mA. According to the manual at page 11, "In general, 200 mA is a recommended charging current if rapid charging is not necessary. It is definitely safe and optimum to the life of the rechargeable batteries.". Charging at lower mA will prolonge the battery life in term of cycle life and battery capacity. Below is the link to the battery charge manual. Just thought that everyone should know.
   
http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/bc1000/manual.pdf


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> That does suck.  I've only had fairly cheap computers and I've never seen that before.  What type of connection is your other spdif?
> 
> But the e17 shows you the signal format it's decoding?  That's a very cool feature.  I wonder if it just pulls the info from the signal metadata or if it's the actually determined from the signal itself?  I also wonder if it could be saying it is receiving a signal at one level but actually down converting and decoding it at a lower level.  (I've seen DAC's play files at whatever level it wants without giving an indication that it downconverting.


 


  other SPDIF? oh no. i only have one of them...the first you see was a "digital out" section only. it had an SPDIF option so i clicked it. that was the wrong one and din't produce any sound. only the second worked. and yeah. it "Actively" changes ont he e17 to show you what signal the comptuer selected  very cool. i think it's just what he computer gives it. i have 192KHz and 96KHz songs and setting the computer to 48KHz and playing those songs the E17 doesn't change..even to 96KHz....
   
  i don't think the E17 will down convert.. if it did....you will see some uproar from the reviewers.


  Quote: 





woosh said:


> Hi guys
> 
> sorry I'm quite new to all this technical stuff about 96khz and 192khz, can someone explain whether the E17 will be a good choice for a DAC+AMP combo for my Macbook Pro (2011)? I'm mainly playing music through iTunes mostly 320kbps stuff.
> 
> Thanks


 

 The question mainly is what type of music you listen to(this is not as relevant in this range and for fiio products), what your budget is, and if you want a portable AND desktop setup or just portable or just desktop. if you want portable and desktop. as you can see from this review and impressions. this is...more or elss the best combined under $200 for the features. We have some nuforce convertees in here  i don't have a nuforce icon HD or the nuforce udac or something in tht range. but...clieos and mike at headfonia liked the E17 at this range.
   
  320kbps...im a bit wary of really. there are a lot of songs online taken from bad sources and just upconverted or re encodeded into 320kbps MP3. not all of them. some. if you have original CD's. i recommend you rip into ALAC(with itnes or EAC....itunes is easiest and despite most head fi'ers liking EAC better for error correct, it's advanced...and realy. if somethign went wrong. you would know)
  we here mainly use CD ripped but 320kbps is still good.
   
  wat headphones you have?


----------



## Orangetree

I got my E17 yesterday and have been testing it for a little bit with a pair of Grado PS500s and 3 other devices: my motherboard's audio (Realtek ALC889), an iPod 5th gen, and a Thinkpad (Conexant 20585 SmartAudio HD). For sources, I've been using 24bit/96k classical tracks and a variety of lossless ripped CDs on Foobar2000. I'm also testing with and without being docked in the E9
   
  Grados don't really need much amping, but I'm straining to hear any difference at all in sound quality. It's wonderfully built, and perhaps my method may be wrong, but I really don't know what I've spent my money on.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





orangetree said:


> I got my E17 yesterday and have been testing it for a little bit with a pair of Grado PS500s and 3 other devices: my motherboard's audio (Realtek ALC889), an iPod 5th gen, and a Thinkpad (Conexant 20585 SmartAudio HD). For sources, I've been using 24bit/96k classical tracks and a variety of lossless ripped CDs on Foobar2000. I'm also testing with and without being docked in the E9
> 
> Grados don't really need much amping, but I'm straining to hear any difference at all in sound quality. It's wonderfully built, and perhaps my method may be wrong, but I really don't know what I've spent my money on.


 


  spend another week with it. then un plug and use regularly. you already have E9? ..hmm. if you liked the E9 then the E17 is basically your portable E9 (kinda) 
  The E17 is more for use with Tier C and B headphones. the general amping rule usually follows in these teirs. your headphones should be a bit more than double the cost of teh unit. (MSRP used) urs are high tier B and low Tier A from what i see or know(the little that i do) about those Grado's... and then we also have Tier S (summit fi) lolz so Tier A isn't the highest BTW. the amp and dac unit really generally reverses at the Tier B headphone section where those units start tending to get pretty expensive and sometiems even cost more than the cans themselves...and then in tier A and past. i see most units costing much more than the cans themselves.
   
  TierC examples:
  HFI580
  Sennheiser 558
  Beyerdynaic DT770
  Shure SRH840
   
  TierB:
  Denon AHD2000
  Sennheiser HD 650 (i don't think the E17 does full capabilities with these though)
  Shure SRH940
  Ultrasone PRo 900


----------



## Woosh

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The question mainly is what type of music you listen to(this is not as relevant in this range and for fiio products), what your budget is, and if you want a portable AND desktop setup or just portable or just desktop. if you want portable and desktop. as you can see from this review and impressions. this is...more or elss the best combined under $200 for the features. We have some nuforce convertees in here  i don't have a nuforce icon HD or the nuforce udac or something in tht range. but...clieos and mike at headfonia liked the E17 at this range.
> 
> 320kbps...im a bit wary of really. there are a lot of songs online taken from bad sources and just upconverted or re encodeded into 320kbps MP3. not all of them. some. if you have original CD's. i recommend you rip into ALAC(with itnes or EAC....itunes is easiest and despite most head fi'ers liking EAC better for error correct, it's advanced...and realy. if somethign went wrong. you would know)
> we here mainly use CD ripped but 320kbps is still good.
> ...


 


  I'm purely looking for a AMP/DAC for my Macbook Pro, I use it at home and I travel with it. My collection on iTunes is not perfect but its acceptable for me considering the gear I have. I'm currently traveling with my HD448 but I'm considering getting an upgrade very soon (maybe HD598 or M50).


----------



## tme110

Im guessing the e17 does down convert, the e7 does and most other less expensive models do.  Otherwise, if it had a signal it didn't know what to do with (for whatever reason) you'd get nothing out.  I actually prefer the nothing out option (which is what AGD DAC's tend to do) but it's also nice when it always just plays something.  My HRT also downcovnverts files to something it can play. (this keeps people from complaining that their DAC isn't playing anything - most people have no idea what rate their music is actually playing at)


----------



## tme110

I'm sure it will work for you and at that price you really can't go wrong anyway. If you dont need the 24/192 type stuff then you can ignore it since most people wont be using it anyway - it's just nice to have in case it ever comes up.
  Quote: 





woosh said:


> I'm purely looking for a AMP/DAC for my Macbook Pro, I use it at home and I travel with it. My collection on iTunes is not perfect but its acceptable for me considering the gear I have. I'm currently traveling with my HD448 but I'm considering getting an upgrade very soon (maybe HD598 or M50).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





woosh said:


> I'm purely looking for a AMP/DAC for my Macbook Pro, I use it at home and I travel with it. My collection on iTunes is not perfect but its acceptable for me considering the gear I have. I'm currently traveling with my HD448 but I'm considering getting an upgrade very soon (maybe HD598 or M50).


 

 when u say travel and home i'm going to think you mean you want to have something you can easily bring around. if so then likme tme110 said...this is fine. for at home use the MAverick tube magic D1 (don't have it, jsut know it's popular) is a popular option. but like he said again and cleios. nothing else really has these features at the price. if you like bass i would recommend the HFI 580 or if you like sennheiser signature then the 598 is also a good choice(don't have the 598)
   


  Quote: 





tme110 said:


> Im guessing the e17 does down convert, the e7 does and most other less expensive models do.  Otherwise, if it had a signal it didn't know what to do with (for whatever reason) you'd get nothing out.  I actually prefer the nothing out option (which is what AGD DAC's tend to do) but it's also nice when it always just plays something.  My HRT also downcovnverts files to something it can play. (this keeps people from complaining that their DAC isn't playing anything - most people have no idea what rate their music is actually playing at)


 

 ouch. forgot about that. yeah. my 44.1KHz/16 bit tracks play. even while it's in 24/96 mode >_< so yeah i get what you mean now! jeez! wow. haha yeah this makes it a lot easier for people. upsampling is something fiio would definatley put on their page if it had that function.


----------



## Orangetree

Thanks for the info. I do realize that the E17 is probably better suited for different headphones than the Grados. I appreciate its portability and the option to boost the sound on my laptop further if I want that (business laptops don't get very loud).
   
  I guess my intent with the FiiO was to get an entry level device that might make the sound more consistent across the various sources I use my headphones with. Maybe it was naive to also assume it would make a change in sound quality. I'm sure with the PS500 I will probably need something beyond my budget to hear any improvement on their already great sound.
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> spend another week with it. then un plug and use regularly. you already have E9? ..hmm. if you liked the E9 then the E17 is basically your portable E9 (kinda)
> The E17 is more for use with Tier C and B headphones. the general amping rule usually follows in these teirs. your headphones should be a bit more than double the cost of teh unit. (MSRP used) urs are high tier B and low Tier A from what i see or know(the little that i do) about those Grado's... and then we also have Tier S (summit fi) lolz so Tier A isn't the highest BTW. the amp and dac unit really generally reverses at the Tier B headphone section where those units start tending to get pretty expensive and sometiems even cost more than the cans themselves...and then in tier A and past. i see most units costing much more than the cans themselves.
> 
> TierC examples:
> ...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





orangetree said:


> *Thanks for the info. I do realize that the E17 is probably better suited for different headphones than the Grados. I appreciate its portability and the option to boost the sound on my laptop further if I want that (business laptops don't get very loud).*
> 
> I guess my intent with the FiiO was to get an entry level device that might make the sound more consistent across the various sources I use my headphones with. Maybe it was naive to also assume it would make a change in sound quality. I'm sure with the PS500 I will probably need something beyond my budget to hear any improvement on their already great sound.


 
  the E17 suits the first purpose very well. even better ./.....is it has a DAC built in for it. easily used with USB 
   
  The E17 isn't ....entry level so to say. the fiio E5 is "entry level" and really. this is the reason why i use the word *tiers*. there isn't enough words in "levels" to spread. i can only think of entry level, advanced level, max level. and many words that mean the same as those 3.


----------



## stroboscopic

Quote: 





weitn said:


> I own a La Crosse Technology BC1000 battery charger. It is considered one of the best charger around. It has selectable charging current of 200, 500, 700, 1000, 1500 and 1800 mA. According to the manual at page 11, "In general, 200 mA is a recommended charging current if rapid charging is not necessary. It is definitely safe and optimum to the life of the rechargeable batteries.". Charging at lower mA will prolonge the battery life in term of cycle life and battery capacity. Below is the link to the battery charge manual. Just thought that everyone should know.


 
   
  That's irrelevant since the La Crosse charger is for NiMH batteries. Li-ion batteries (like the ones on the E17/Alpen) have a totally different chemistry.
   
   
  Quote: 





> The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and *the charge time is about three hours*.


 
   
  From: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries (my bold)


----------



## aquacos

hi there,
  I see that there some units of the e17 around here. did anybody notice a silent buzzing sound of the device if no music is playing and what I have described here? 
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/690
   
  I send my e17 back and hopefully soon I get a unit without that problerm. this silent buzzing was most audible with my shure se535 but also audible with my t70p. may be it was a rare case of a faulty unit.  
   
  greetings, s.


----------



## gohanssjn

Welp, I cannot get this to work on my laptop (Dell Latitude XT).  Something about it just sends garbage to the E17.  It's like sound with an overlay of static and sometimes extra sounds (ane a few times it made the sound being sent a higher pitch).  Reinstalling an old Windows 7 backup that was just an OS install did nothing to help 
  
  Quote: 





aquacos said:


> hi there,
> I see that there some units of the e17 around here. did anybody notice a silent buzzing sound of the device if no music is playing and what I have described here?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/690
> 
> ...


 
  I have 0 buzzing when silent.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





aquacos said:


> hi there,
> I see that there some units of the e17 around here. did anybody notice a silent buzzing sound of the device if no music is playing and what I have described here?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/690
> 
> ...


 
  i heard a hiss only with EQ on. when i turned EQ off...it was gone. the treble upped the hiss a lot more than bass


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

I have tried my FiiO E17 with my Desktop PC, iPhone4S and Sansa Clip+ with no hissing or buzzing at all.  The only time I have actually heard a bit of hissing when no music was playing was while I was flying.  There are 5 different radios and other sensors working in the aircraft, but it may not be related.  Other than this short hissing experience, my E17 has been silent.
   
  FiveThreeEcho


----------



## Orangetree

Wow, I was making dinner on the other side of my apartment when I heard something that sounded like a fireplace crackling at my desk. I ran over to hear my headphones popping and hissing while plugged into the E9. I unplugged everything and undocked the E17. I've put everything back in and it seems to be fine.
   
  I don't hear any hissing or static when it's working normally, but what could have caused this? It also has a tendency to make sound suddenly "robotic" sounding (like a mechanical flange) until I undock it and dock it again.


----------



## bowei006

My results as are follow. ipod touch 2G-->L9 LOD-->E17-->HFI 580
   
  I played and paused the song. current level is 6dB gain with some EQ on. i qucikly raised volume from (20) and past 30...ahh there it was. that buzzing. it was a tempo'ed cha cha cha cha cha cha cha of flowing electricity...and then when i reached 35(with the cha cha cha cha) still going quietly..it died off again to near silent with minimal hiss. now at 40. this hiss is getting louder again. and then that cha cha cha cha cha appears again. dies back down at 45. then do it again. reach 60. the cha cha cha comes and goes fast this time. leaving me with a slight hiss. now i decrease....and no problems at all. no cha cha cha cha. the hiss just slowly fades from what it waas at 60 volume to close to nothing nearing 40.
  tries this at 12dB gain. same phenomenom as top one. it seems the E17 ...fixes the signal or something fast and then tries to refix it again. or something
   
  Starting again. started and paused music.no EQ. starting at 20 with 6dB gain. sound comes at around 40. gets almost pretty loud nearing 60. and then. it cuts. the hissing stops and im left with a very very quiet cha cha cha cha cha. 5 seconds later. it's gone. now i am at 60. no EQ. with 6dB gain. no sound... aat all. quiet
   
  tried with 12dB. started and stopped music. this time. the hiss started at 30. got louder and louder until 50. then it cut. small cha cha cha cha cha came...then stopped. now at 60.....it's not quiet.  a very very very small hissing sound...other than that..nothing.
   
   
  So yeah...it seems like..the E17...after a certain point. kinda rechecks and eliminates. and then rechecks and eliminates. this happens twice from 20 to 60 all 4 times i tested. i just held the + button down..something most won't do at that volume unless you have high impendance headphones..so you do. you will hear that in the back for a tiny bit...and then...some hiss. but then again. i can not conclude this for the high impendance headphone users as i was not (i can't) play music at that sound level.
   
   
  So...*.conclusion: it's silent. the E17 has hiss on my easy driven HFI 580's past 30 on both (it's even more prone and big with EQ on) but it constantly eliminates it past a certain point for you within seconds*


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> spend another week with it. then un plug and use regularly. you already have E9? ..hmm. if you liked the E9 then the E17 is basically your portable E9 (kinda)
> The E17 is more for use with Tier C and B headphones. the general amping rule usually follows in these teirs. your headphones should be a bit more than double the cost of teh unit. (MSRP used) urs are high tier B and low Tier A from what i see or know(the little that i do) about those Grado's... and then we also have Tier S (summit fi) lolz so Tier A isn't the highest BTW. the amp and dac unit really generally reverses at the Tier B headphone section where those units start tending to get pretty expensive and sometiems even cost more than the cans themselves...and then in tier A and past. i see most units costing much more than the cans themselves.
> 
> TierC examples:
> ...


 
  Sorry, this is totally misleading. $100 or $1000 headphones can be very revealing to source. You can't categorize headphones like this. $200 headphones can sound better to an individual than $1000 ones.
  To Orangetree- I would think the main difference between the E17 and your soundcard is background hiss. The E17 should be a lot quieter (in quiet parts) than any soundcard. This makes music more involving and 3 dimensional given an adequate headphone (which the PS500 is). I hope this is not the case for the E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> *Sorry, this is totally misleading. $100 or $1000 headphones can be very revealing to source. You can't categorize headphones like this. $200 headphones can sound better to an individual than $1000 ones.*
> To Orangetree- I would think the main difference between the E17 and your soundcard is background hiss. The E17 should be a lot quieter (in quiet parts) than any soundcard. This makes music more involving and 3 dimensional given an adequate headphone (which the PS500 is). I hope this is not the case for the E17.


 

 oh sorry. i was really just going off price and other stuff. but this is a general system really. it's one of those. this is gnerally how it goes. not always or anything. but generally.


----------



## mister2d

Lots of static and garbled audio using the E17 through USB. This is my first attempt using it over USB. Initially I was using optical. This is using a MacBook Pro.
   
  Well... this is a kill joy. After my good experience with the E17 two days ago (exclusively over optical) I thought I was set. Looks like this is going back to sender.
   
  Shame. I am 1 for 3 on FiiO products. E7 (stopped playing audio out the left channel), E17 (static/garbled audio), but the E11 is rock solid.
   
  Seems to be a quality issue with DAC products here since using the E17 over LOD is fine (same as the E7).
   
  Grrrrr...


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Lots of static and garbled audio using the E17 through USB. This is my first attempt using it over USB. Initially I was using optical. This is using a MacBook Pro.
> 
> Well... this is a kill joy. After my good experience with the E17 two days ago (exclusively over optical) I thought I was set. Looks like this is going back to sender.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like the same thing my Dell laptop does, even though my Desktop does fine with the DAC.  I think it might be a hardware conflict of some sort, as no amount of reinstalling helped my laptop and the E17 get along.  Maybe we should PM the FiiO rep here and see if he has any insight?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Lots of static and garbled audio using the E17 through USB. This is my first attempt using it over USB. Initially I was using optical. This is using a MacBook Pro.
> 
> Well... this is a kill joy. After my good experience with the E17 two days ago (exclusively over optical) I thought I was set. Looks like this is going back to sender.
> 
> ...


 
  so audio is just messy over USB? have you tried it with another computer?


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> so audio is just messy over USB? have you tried it with another computer?


 


  Yes, just USB. LOD is fine as well as optical (so far).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Yes, just USB. LOD is fine as well as optical (so far).


 


  was that yes also to trying it out with another laptop? because that is important as well.
   
  oh one question. what color is the inside of your S/PDIF jack. anyone can answer this. mine is pure black. i thought it'd be pink?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> was that yes also to trying it out with another laptop? because that is important as well.
> 
> oh one question. what color is the inside of your S/PDIF jack. anyone can answer this. mine is pure black. i thought it'd be pink?


 


  All black here as well.


  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Yes, just USB. LOD is fine as well as optical (so far).


 

 So, any chance you can tell up what specs you have on your laptop?  Mine is a Core 2 Duo processor with a Dell motherboard.  But maybe we have the same chipset or something....


----------



## gohanssjn

Also, I just added the rubber feet to mine and now there is no movement when it is strapped to my iPod Touch, so that's nice


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Sounds like the same thing my Dell laptop does, even though my Desktop does fine with the DAC.  I think it might be a hardware conflict of some sort, as no amount of reinstalling helped my laptop and the E17 get along.  Maybe we should PM the FiiO rep here and see if he has any insight?


 

 Did everyone disable the internal soundcard and make the E17 the default device, then reboot- you have to reboot after this?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> All black here as well.


 

 first batch then..or they just decided to do it..i really don't care...
   


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Also, I just added the rubber feet to mine and now there is no movement when it is strapped to my iPod Touch, so that's nice


 

 haha me as well


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Did everyone disable the internal soundcard and make the E17 the default device, then reboot- you have to reboot after this?


 


  I can try that, but mine can't be disabled in the BIOS, only in windows.


----------



## gohanssjn

Disabled and restarted: no change, still broken.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Disabled and restarted: no change, still broken.


 


  wait..what's wrong with your E17?


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> wait..what's wrong with your E17?


 


  Well, from what I can tell, nothing.  My laptop is sending the DAC garbage over the anticipated sound when using USB.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Well, from what I can tell, nothing.  My laptop is sending the DAC garbage over the anticipated sound when using USB.


 


   
   
  is it just your computer? imi going to guess it is as you didn't blame the E17 meaning you tried it with another computer already >_<


----------



## mister2d

gohanssjn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have a Macbook Pro.

bowei006, no I haven't tried it yet on a different laptop. I'll give it a shot on my linux laptop in a few.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I have a Macbook Pro.
> bowei006, no I haven't tried it yet on a different laptop. I'll give it a shot on my linux laptop in a few.


 


  i have one as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  but yes try it out with another computer. hmm. pc might be better. if it doesn't work there make sure to try a windows pc before jumping the gun (but if it doesn't work there, the chance of it not working well on windows pc is also high, but still. )


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> is it just your computer? imi going to guess it is as you didn't blame the E17 meaning you tried it with another computer already >_<


 


  Correct.  Only my laptop (Dell Win. 7 x86) sends garbage.  My desktop (Homemade Win. 7 x64) and my wife's laptop (Dell Win. 7 x86) both work fine.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Correct.  Only my laptop sends garbage.  My desktop and my wife's laptop both work fine.


 


  Update audio drivers? there might be something wrong with USB circuitry maybe.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Update audio drivers? there might be something wrong with USB circuitry maybe.


 

  
  Chipset issues would be my best bet TBH.  I have tried everything else I can think if.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i have one as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  This is weird. Now it's not happening on either laptop and I didn't do a thing except turn the unit off and then back on. Works fine in Linux, btw (to my enjoyment).
   
  Well, I'll continue evaluating for the week and see how it goes and not think about it unless it comes up.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> This is weird. Now it's not happening on either laptop and I didn't do a thing except turn the unit off and then back on. Works fine in Linux, btw (to my enjoyment).
> 
> Well, I'll continue evaluating for the week and see how it goes and not think about it unless it comes up.


 


  What version of Linux, if I may be so bold.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





orangetree said:


> Grados don't really need much amping, but I'm straining to hear any difference at all in sound quality.


 

 Most (of not all) Grado do not change much with amping. Grado is just that efficient. That's why most people (including me) like to use Grado with tube amp as tube amp add a nice coloration that generally mellow down  Grado's sharp edge. Nothing to do with power actually.
   


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ouch. forgot about that. yeah. my 44.1KHz/16 bit tracks play. even while it's in 24/96 mode >_< so yeah i get what you mean now! jeez! wow. haha yeah this makes it a lot easier for people. upsampling is something fiio would definatley put on their page if it had that function.


 
  Of course 16/44.1 music can be played in 24/96 mode - 24/96 means it can decode at *max* resolution of 24/96, anything below is fine as well.

  
  Quote: 





aquacos said:


> I send my e17 back and hopefully soon I get a unit without that problerm. this silent buzzing was most audible with my shure se535 but also audible with my t70p. may be it was a rare case of a faulty unit.


 
  SE535? Still, are you sure you are not listening to hissing? Hope you get your replacement soon.
  
   
  Quote: 





orangetree said:


> Wow, I was making dinner on the other side of my apartment when I heard something that sounded like a fireplace crackling at my desk. I ran over to hear my headphones popping and hissing while plugged into the E9. I unplugged everything and undocked the E17. I've put everything back in and it seems to be fine.
> 
> I don't hear any hissing or static when it's working normally, but what could have caused this? It also has a tendency to make sound suddenly "robotic" sounding (like a mechanical flange) until I undock it and dock it again.


 
  I think they might have picking up EMI from a nearby source/ A cellphone maybe?

  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I played and paused the song. current level is 6dB gain with some EQ on. i qucikly raised volume from (20) and past 30...ahh there it was. that buzzing. i...


 
  It is the digital volume controller trying to switch between steps, totally normal. Even with much more expensive portable with digital volume control, you can still hear this kind of switching wehn changing volume, especially if you have a sensitive headphone.
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> oh one question. what color is the inside of your S/PDIF jack. anyone can answer this. mine is pure black. i thought it'd be pink?


 

 It is all black on production model. They only use pick socket on demo unit.
   


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Correct.  Only my laptop (Dell Win. 7 x86) sends garbage.  My desktop (Homemade Win. 7 x64) and my wife's laptop (Dell Win. 7 x86) both work fine.


 

 That is a really good indication that you laptop either have corrupted driver or worst, bad USB port.
   


  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> This is weird. Now it's not happening on either laptop and I didn't do a thing except turn the unit off and then back on. Works fine in Linux, btw (to my enjoyment).
> 
> Well, I'll continue evaluating for the week and see how it goes and not think about it unless it comes up.


 
  I'll say it is likely the either on playback software or driver, the digital resolution isn't set correctly. It happened to E10 user with Macbook as well. When the driver isn't set right, he heard only static. But once it was set correctly, music started to play. It seems to be pretty common problem for Macbook.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





clieos said:


> That is a really good indication that you laptop either have corrupted driver or worst, bad USB port.


 

  Well, all 3 USB ports do it and the E17 driver has been installed numerous times, and 3 on a fresh Windows 7 install.  It has to be something in the USB hub drivers or something, who knows.  I do not believe it is in any way the E17s fault.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Well, all 3 USB ports do it and the E17 driver has been installed numerous times, and 3 on a fresh Windows 7 install.  It has to be something in the USB hub drivers or something, who knows.  I do not believe it is in any way the E17s fault.


 


 Do you have any self-power USB hub at home? It is a long shot, but I guess it is still worth trying.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> What version of Linux, if I may be so bold.


 


  Yes, bold question and I'm hoping it doesn't open a can of worms. 
   
  I'm using Ubuntu 11.10 on my other laptop.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'll say it is likely the either on playback software or driver, the digital resolution isn't set correctly. It happened to E10 user with Macbook as well. When the driver isn't set right, he heard only static. But once it was set correctly, music started to play. It seems to be pretty common problem for Macbook.


 


  The only thing I did was turn the E17 off and then back on and no static after that. I'll continue to monitor it throughout the week.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Yes, bold question and I'm hoping it doesn't open a can of worms.
> 
> I'm using Ubuntu 11.10 on my other laptop.


 

 I am mildly competent with that and will try it.


----------



## lavii

In case of static and popping noise, self powered usb will help, as sometime usb port doesn't give proper supply to drive dac.


----------



## gohanssjn

On the same laptop, Ubuntu 11.10 sends a clean signal to the E17 and there is no crackle.
   
  Must be a Windows 7 USB driver issue,


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





stroboscopic said:


> That's irrelevant since the La Crosse charger is for NiMH batteries. Li-ion batteries (like the ones on the E17/Alpen) have a totally different chemistry.
> 
> 
> 
> From: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries (my bold)


 

 I guess you are right. Good job in pointing that one out. Charging with lower mA does not apply for the Li-ion battery. Instead, t[size=x-small]he voltage level to which the cells are charged plays a role in extending longevity. A[size=x-small] higher voltage would boost capacity, while [size=x-small]over-voltage [/size]shortens service life (cycle life).[/size] W[size=x-small]hen the charging light turned blue[/size] for [/size]E17, it should cut off the charging to prevent over-voltage.
   
  [size=x-small]A typical L[size=x-small]i-ion[/size] battery life span about 500 discharge/charge cycles. E17 can run 15 hours usage per charge. 4 hours usage per day would mean the battery could last 1875 days (15x500/4=1875) or 5 years. However, using it with the usb plug in (regardless input source) could prolong the battery life as the battery is not in use. Correct me if I am wrong.[/size]


----------



## stroboscopic

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Instead, t[size=x-small]he voltage level to which the cells are charged plays a role in extending longevity. A[size=x-small] higher voltage would boost capacity, while [size=x-small]over-voltage [/size]shortens service life (cycle life).[/size] W[size=x-small]hen the charging light turned blue[/size] for [/size]E17, it should cut off the charging to prevent over-voltage.


 

 Yes. But there's not much we can do since the charger circuit for the Alpen is inside the Alpen (USB works just a power source).
   
   
  Quote: 





weitn said:


> [size=x-small]A typical L[size=x-small]i-ion[/size] battery life span about 500 discharge/charge cycles. [/size]


 
   
  Don't forget those are "full cycles". You can easily prolong a Li-ion battery by doing partial cycles (both in charge and discharge). So, whenever possible, avoid reaching both 0% and 100% charge. Avoiding 0% charge is relatively easy: just charge the battery whenever possible.  Avoiding 100% charge is just not practical, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.


----------



## bowei006

maQuote: 





mister2d said:


> This is weird. Now it's not happening on either laptop and I didn't do a thing except turn the unit off and then back on. Works fine in Linux, btw (to my enjoyment).
> 
> Well, I'll continue evaluating for the week and see how it goes and not think about it unless it comes up.


 

 hhaha. that's why i said to go try it with others first before going E17 is broken-ed
   


  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> On the same laptop, Ubuntu 11.10 sends a clean signal to the E17 and there is no crackle.
> 
> Must be a Windows 7 USB driver issue,


 

 hmm maybe a full driver recheck and update for everything from chipset and if you have seperate drivers for north or southbridge.. and yeah. USB if i remember correctly is in the southbridge. the chipset itself if i remember correctly is also the northbridge usually.


----------



## hartphoto

After now spending about 18 hours of listening on my E17.....and comparing to amps I have actually owned.....
   
  Not a single regret on buying the E17, it is everything I expected it to be.  Nice work FiiO.
   
  With my listening setup (see sig), it is a great addition.  Easy to use, every button/menu layout makes perfect sense (well, 99.9% perfect sense, see comment later).
   
  Musically, it is a pleasure.  For me, it's added depth/width of the soundstage, better resolution/detail (without being harsh or fatiguing), both with my AKG k701s and my UE TF10s.  With very well recorded/mixed/produced material (any genre), it is very easy to hear what was intended both musically and spatially.  In really quiet or dark recordings (live classical/vocal/rock, unplugged, etc.), it's just a dream....no hiss on either of my 'phones.  I can comfortably use 'no gain' on my UE TF10s, and set it at 6 gain for the AKG k701s and the E17 drives them to comfortable volume levels easily.  
   
  My only niggles (the 0.1% of what I'd like to see added) with the E17...is that it would be nice for it to turn off the screen display and LEDs after no buttons are pressed for a period of time.  Yes, I know there is a hold button, and I know there is a sleep timer (AWESOME for me and how I use it).  Both accomplish turning off the screen.  But.....it could, I think, be made very easily to auto dim/sleep the display and LEDs after 2,3,5,10 minutes (or whatever) just like an iPod or iPhone or iPad does and keep on being awesome.  If it could also do the same for the LEDs on the Power/Exit button, that would be double perfection.  Not everyone needs to see the Display/LEDs on to know it's still working/functional (like when using at night).  Like I said, it's 99.9% perfection of what I wanted in a new portable amp/desktop DAC.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hartphoto said:


> After now spending about 18 hours of listening on my E17.....and comparing to amps I have actually owned.....
> 
> Not a single regret on buying the E17, it is everything I expected it to be.  Nice work FiiO.
> 
> ...


 

 The auto dim would be a great feature. Thx for the post i agree with everything. Only problem i have is eq. I have diverse songs so i change eq a lot. Every two songs or even ever minute. Its annoying. But thats my fault. User caused. Another one is buttons. Sometimes i press wrong buttons bc im pressing them with the e17 facing floor using with my ipod and press wrong ones. Again. All me


----------



## hartphoto

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The auto dim would be a great feature. Thx for the post i agree with everything. Only problem i have is eq. I have diverse songs so i change eq a lot. Every two songs or even ever minute. Its annoying. But thats my fault. User caused. Another one is buttons. Sometimes i press wrong buttons bc im pressing them with the e17 facing floor using with my ipod and press wrong ones. Again. All me.


 
   
  I'm also an EQ hound....changing it frequently.  Might take a look at EQu or Equalizer (IIRC, that's what you use the E17 with, didn't go back in the thread and re-look at your pics).  Both are good apps for the iDevices, but a bit processor/battery intensive.  I've setup different EQ presets in the apps, much like the Apple presets (but better) for the different music I listen to.  From Dubstep to Pop to Hair Band to Metal to Classic Rock to Vocals to Classical....just about everything 'cept Rap and twangy Country.
   
  I pretty much do the typical V curve EQ on most music...but vary the high end depending on the original recording quality.  I like detail, even though I'd probably better qualify as the HF 'bass head', but not detail that's unnatural.
   
  HTH.


----------



## Jack C

It's so good to read about all these impressions. I won't be getting a E17 for my personal use until the second batch comes in, the anticipation keeps building...
   
  Good times!
   
  Jack


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The auto dim would be a great feature. Thx for the post i agree with everything. Only problem i have is eq. I have diverse songs so i change eq a lot. Every two songs or even ever minute. Its annoying. But thats my fault. User caused. Another one is buttons. Sometimes i press wrong buttons bc im pressing them with the e17 facing floor using with my ipod and press wrong ones. Again. All me


 

 You sound apologetic aha!? 
  I think with regards eq, you've just got to find a compromise based on what you listen too most and let your brain fill in the rest!
  Good to see its mostly a positive start, its always a bit worrying buying a newly released products especially electronics... but someones gotta take a punt to get the ball rolling!


----------



## AykDaddy

Same question here:
   
  Setup would be a MacBook Pro -->  iTunes with ALAC and 256kbit m4a Files --> Fiio e17 --> Denon D5000 or Westone 4
   
  My Fiio is arriving tomorrow and somehow I wonder if the Fiio e17 is enough to bring the best out of these rather expensive Cans/IEMs....


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hhaha. that's why i said to go try it with others first before going E17 is broken-ed


 
   
  Well, it started working properly with a power cycle before I even tried another laptop, so it could still be the E17. Time will tell.


----------



## gohanssjn

Ok, has to be my laptops drivers.  Even installing Windows 7 x64 fresh did not fix it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Ok, has to be my laptops drivers.  Even installing Windows 7 x64 fresh did not fix it.


 


   
  Oo sorry man. Fiio look here. This brave sould re installed windows to make sure it wasnt ur fault!!
   
  Im sorry for that man. Could there be some problem with the e17 usb chip not working well with specific usb ports or southbridges


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Oo sorry man. Fiio look here. This brave sould re installed windows to make sure it wasnt ur fault!!
> 
> Im sorry for that man. Could there be some problem with the e17 usb chip not working well with specific usb ports or southbridges


 

  
  Well, it would have to be the Win. 7 driver for those things.  Ubuntu plays through the E17 just fine.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Well, it would have to be the Win. 7 driver for those things.  Ubuntu plays through the E17 just fine.


 


  ....so windows drivers are not compatabile...new laptop time  lol jk


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ....so windows drivers are not compatabile...new laptop time  lol jk


 


  This is just a writing station and drawing machine since I graduated law school, lol.  I can live with Ubuntu to use the E17 while writing.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> This is just a writing station and drawing machine since I graduated law school, lol.  I can live with Ubuntu to use the E17 while writing.


 


  oh that works then  or whip out the desktop or something else.


----------



## skeeder

Kinda of an apple to orange test...Anyone test this versus the Hifiman EF2A?
   
  Around the same price (not portable...) same idea...USB DAC/amp.


----------



## AgentXXL

1430 hrs: E17 + E9 combo received, rather picked up from post office since parcel driver couldn't find my condo
  1500 hrs: External USB charger used to fully charge E17 while I ran some errands
  1930 hrs: E17 charge LED turned off - full charge took about 4.5 hrs
  1945 hrs: After examining E17 menus/manual, attached DT770 Pro 250 ohm cans with volume set to 10 and started playing my usual suspects
  2000 hrs: Macbook Pro set to output 96KHz, 24 bit over USB DAC - settled on volume of 40 with gain at 12dB for the majority of the tracks tested
  2015 hrs: Changed my underwear, dried the tears and took some ibuprofen to ease the muscle pain from the perpetual smile on my face 
   
  Seriously - I LIKE IT!! Very similar sound stage compared to my Pico. Fiio obviously did a great job implementing the WM8740 DAC. I knew the DT770 250 ohm were hard to drive, and I was hoping for more power using the E17 by itself, but it still bests my Pico by a pretty decent margin. Trying it docked with the E9 was even more enjoyable. Now I had the power to really drive the DT770s well. Gain on the E17 has no effect when using "Line Out" or "Fixed mode (not LO Bypass). That did however change the sound signature of the E17 - I'm now using it on "LO Bypass" and taking advantage of the eq features of the E17. So far I've been able to produce a pretty accurate copy of the E17s signature, but with considerably more power left over to drive the DT770s. The gain on the back of the E9 is set to High - for use with high impedance/low sensitivity headphones like the 250 ohm DT770s.
   
  I've got LOTS more playing to do, but so far, consider me very impressed. The E17 + E9 bundle is about half the cost of my Pico and really accomplishes everything the Pico gave me and more. Well done Fiio!
   
  Dale


----------



## dexvx

Any place have the E17 in stock in the US?


----------



## Riku540

You're a little late... first batch sold out in the first 7 hours. Afraid you'll have to wait for batch 2, or see if they are still available overseas.


----------



## dexvx

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> You're a little late... first batch sold out in the first 7 hours. Afraid you'll have to wait for batch 2, or see if they are still available overseas.


 



   
  Do not many vendors import them? There seems to be quite a few that sell fiio products on Amazon.


----------



## Riku540

It will be in time. New FiiO products usually don't hit Amazon until well after the second batch has been sent out though.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I've got LOTS more playing to do, but so far, consider me very impressed. The E17 + E9 bundle is about half the cost of my Pico and really accomplishes everything the Pico gave me and more. Well done Fiio!


 
  Dang! My first negative - unfortunately the E17 can't be used with the iPad and the camera connection kit. "The attached device uses too much power" or something to that effect. I tried using a dual-powered USB to microUSB cable and alas I still get the same error message. Also tried using the USB DAC through the E9, hoping its external power supply might help, but no go. Bummer.... ;(
   
  Guess I have a reason to hold on to my Pico - it works perfectly going iPad --> CCK --> Pico microUSB --> Pico headphone out, choosing USB Audio Device from the list of outputs on the iPad. Sigh.... wonder if it's something that can be fixed via a firmware update or if we need a special microUSB cable that ensures the E17 doesn't try to draw power from the iPad?
   
  Dale


----------



## Parall3l

The second patch of E17 is being shipped to some dealers

 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=312751955437845&set=a.249412868438421.59207.198165973563111&type=1


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Dang! My first negative - unfortunately the E17 can't be used with the iPad and the camera connection kit. "The attached device uses too much power" or something to that effect. I tried using a dual-powered USB to microUSB cable and alas I still get the same error message. Also tried using the USB DAC through the E9, hoping its external power supply might help, but no go. Bummer.... ;(
> 
> Guess I have a reason to hold on to my Pico - it works perfectly going iPad --> CCK --> Pico microUSB --> Pico headphone out, choosing USB Audio Device from the list of outputs on the iPad. Sigh.... wonder if it's something that can be fixed via a firmware update or if we need a special microUSB cable that ensures the E17 doesn't try to draw power from the iPad?
> 
> Dale


 
   
  Have you tried turning off USB charging on the E17?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Have you tried turning off USB charging on the E17?


 
   
  Alas, yes I did. Tried that before trying the other options....


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Alas, yes I did. Tried that before trying the other options....


 


  E17 support iPad but you need to turn off the USB charger in the setup menu so it will not drain the power from iPad. that is the only reason that can explain why you can not connect E17 to iPad!


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> E17 support iPad but you need to turn off the USB charger in the setup menu so it will not drain the power from iPad. that is the only reason that can explain why you can not connect E17 to iPad!


 

 But I did try that - as stated above, it was the first thing I tried. No matter what, I can't get the iPad 2 with camera connection kit to work with my e17. It still works with my Pico, but I'll borrow my brother-in-law's CCK just to make sure it isn't a problem with mine. I tried all different lengths of USB cables, including the one that came with the E17. Here are the errors I get and a picture showing that I have USB Charging set to Off:
   
    
   
  Any other suggestions?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Very sorry for my mistake, E17 can not support iPad/iPad2 because it consume about 150mA current from the USB port which is exceed what iPad can provide. even when the USB charge is turn off!


----------



## Feckie

Just bought the E17, cant get it to run on usb however AUX is fine.
   
  It seems like it cant find the drivers, in device manager the only thing that isnt installed is a USB driver of some sort.
   
  Did anyone on Windows 7 64bit have any issues?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My broken E7. At least now I'm 100% certain it's not my E9 or the L7 that was giving me problems with losing a channel, and other distortions. It works through USB, but with a useless proprietary connection, I don't have much faith in docking ANYTHING to the E9. If I were to get the Alpen, I'd definitely hook it up via L7 to the line in. That dock connection is just asking for problems. It's too flimsy.

My E7 is a 1st gen, so it lasted me this long at least.

It's a sign, I need a new DAC. Lol.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Any place have the E17 in stock in the US?


 
   
  go check their site. like the other guy said. sold out in america in 7 hours. mp4nation still has pre orders. but many people don't order that way. the people that would pre order from hong kong already pre ordered in the first batch so the second one is still availble(not sold out) . since it's not sold out..how do we know the E17 is still popular.....the E17 sold out in 7 hours on most sites and even more people want it know due to the hype and our reviews and impressions in this thread. the second batch window is going to be short. follow micca on twitter and check site a lot. the only info we have is that mp4nation will receive second batch(size of batch unknown) around mid february. this should put micca and other american distro's at getting second batch at around late february. 
   
  Quote:


agentxxl said:


> 1430 hrs: E17 + E9 combo received, rather picked up from post office since parcel driver couldn't find my condo
> 1500 hrs: External USB charger used to fully charge E17 while I ran some errands
> 1930 hrs: E17 charge LED turned off - full charge took about 4.5 hrs
> 1945 hrs: After examining E17 menus/manual, attached DT770 Pro 250 ohm cans with volume set to 10 and started playing my usual suspects
> ...


 

  
   
  i thought u burned in 1430 hours when i first saw this lol  how does the E17 do by itself with DT 770 with 250 ohm? so 40 voume at 12 gain is enough right?
   
   
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> My broken E7. At least now I'm 100% certain it's not my E9 or the L7 that was giving me problems with losing a channel, and other distortions. It works through USB, but with a useless proprietary connection, I don't have much faith in docking ANYTHING to the E9. If I were to get the Alpen, I'd definitely hook it up via L7 to the line in. That dock connection is just asking for problems. It's too flimsy.
> My E7 is a 1st gen, so it lasted me this long at least.
> It's a sign, I need a new DAC. Lol.


 

  now u can upgrade  
   
   
   
  Quote: 





feckie said:


> Just bought the E17, cant get it to run on usb however AUX is fine.
> 
> It seems like it cant find the drivers, in device manager the only thing that isnt installed is a USB driver of some sort.
> 
> Did anyone on Windows 7 64bit have any issues?


 
  the E17 has some problems with USB drivers in windows. look through the threads around here. you are the third person to report this. it might be an E17 usb receiver problem with select or kinds of windows 7 USB drivers. or could just be the USB drivers themselves.t he other two said they re installed windows usb drivers (southbridge) and what not and still report same problem on their select computer. even with a re format/reinstal of windows but it played fine on his computer through linux :/ it's very hard to tell if this is FiiO's USB chip being incompatible with select widows 7 drivers or the opposite. or just both.


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> the E17 has some problems with USB drivers in windows. look through the threads around here. you are the third person to report this. it might be an E17 usb receiver problem with select or kinds of windows 7 USB drivers. or could just be the USB drivers themselves.t he other two said they re installed windows usb drivers (southbridge) and what not and still report same problem on their select computer. even with a re format/reinstal of windows but it played fine on his computer through linux :/ it's very hard to tell if this is FiiO's USB chip being incompatible with select widows 7 drivers or the opposite. or just both.


 

  
  This is concerning me as I'm running Windows 7 and was eagerly awaiting the 2nd batch.
   
  How many people are using the E17 with Windows 7 without any issues so far?
   
  Feiao what are your thoughts on this?
   
  Thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





geak said:


> This is concerning me as I'm running Windows 7 and was eagerly awaiting the 2nd batch.
> 
> How many people are using the E17 with Windows 7 without any issues so far?
> 
> ...


 

 i have no issues. if you read clieos's review it said there might be some bad apples. but the thing is. the E17's for the other two member's worked on any other computer and OS even on same computer with the e17...meaning this can't be a bad apple thing. unless there's faulty model's that discrimnate Win 7 drivers....i don't know the liklyness of this as it was reported that it works fine and perfect on others
   
  So yeah...the problem needs to be tested at the software and hardware level. and even then. fiio or someone would need to get the offending E17 and computer with the OS win 7 that doesn't work and do a thorough test....worth it? i don't know. i don't even know if fiio can. this is just like other sound cards not working due to incompatability. i really and nobody can really call fiio out for this one...considering 3 people out of how many hundreds to a thousand are reporting problems. i don't know what the combined first batch of the E17 was. but it's all sold out in America......that means something .....especially when it sold out in hours with more still wanting to get there hands on it.


----------



## rock888

Don't worry. I guess most are fine. I have both E17 and E10 working well on my 2 win7 64bit laptops.
  
  Quote: 





geak said:


> This is concerning me as I'm running Windows 7 and was eagerly awaiting the 2nd batch.
> 
> How many people are using the E17 with Windows 7 without any issues so far?
> 
> ...


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Very sorry for my mistake, E17 can not support iPad/iPad2 because it consume about 150mA current from the USB port which is exceed what iPad can provide. even when the USB charge is turn off!


 

 No problem - it would have been a nice plus if the E17 had worked with the iPad and camera connection kit. That said, I'm still very impressed with what the E17 does do, and those things it does very well. I'm still quite satisfied with my purchase.
   
  Dale


----------



## shootertwist

oh my, good thing i read about the ipad thing not working, it was one of the reasons i plan on getting one, to pair it with my ipad2


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> No problem - it would have been a nice plus if the E17 had worked with the iPad and camera connection kit. That said, I'm still very impressed with what the E17 does do, and those things it does very well. I'm still quite satisfied with my purchase.
> 
> Dale


 
  im sorry. you must have missed my qeustion since i put it in a mass quote post. but how do you think or how does the E17 do by itself with 250 ohm beyers? is 40 volume at 12dB gain enough? or. is it ..just enough?
   
  I'm going to guess. Pico and many other companies are going to start having problems from FiiO  the FiiO nation is pretty large especially since so many newbies have it


----------



## shotgunshane

I have windows 7, 64bit and USB worked fine the first time. No driver issues here.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i thought u burned in 1430 hours when i first saw this lol  how does the E17 do by itself with DT 770 with 250 ohm? so 40 voume at 12 gain is enough right?


 

 Hehehe... 1430 hours of burn-in would be quite the feat, considering the E17 hasn't been available that long. And yes, volume level 40 at a gain of 12 is quite loud, at least to my ears. Very useable! I'm not expecting miracles, but it'll be interesting to see how it does with my new HD800s when I get them.
   
  Dale


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> im sorry. you must have missed my qeustion since i put it in a mass quote post. but how do you think or how does the E17 do by itself with 250 ohm beyers? is 40 volume at 12dB gain enough? or. is it ..just enough?
> 
> I'm going to guess. Pico and many other companies are going to start having problems from FiiO  the FiiO nation is pretty large especially since so many newbies have it


 
   
  Nope, didn't miss your question - see post #946 above.  I just hadn't got to your post yet and was replying to posts in the order I read them.
   
  Yes, Headamp (Pico manufacturer) and others with similar amps (like Ray Samuels Audio) will have to be "on the lookout". When Fiio can release a DAC/amp at about 1/4 the cost, with very similar performance and a few extras to boot, the sales of the higher priced Pico DAC/amp are sure to fall.
   
  Dale


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Hehehe... 1430 hours of burn-in would be quite the feat, considering the E17 hasn't been available that long. And yes, volume level 40 at a gain of 12 is quite loud, at least to my ears. Very useable! I'm not expecting miracles, but it'll be interesting to see how it does with my new HD800s when I get them.
> 
> Dale


 


  plz post then. i would like to know how the 215mW @ 32 Ohms would do for something like an HD800  is there any hiss at 40 with gain 12 for you?
   
  and yes. im loving mine too . i do 30 on gain 6 and it's already quite loud. but then again. i have a no too hard to drive hfi 580. my shure's are a bit harder but still no problems. i have to keep it on 15 with 6dB gain with my earbuds


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> plz post then. i would like to know how the 215mW @ 32 Ohms would do for something like an HD800  is there any hiss at 40 with gain 12 for you?


 
   
  I don't notice any hiss, but my source material was almost all 96KHz at 24bit, so it was pretty clean. I'll have to listen to some of my lower quality stuff, like my 192 - 320 MP3s.
   
  I'll certainly post back when I get my HD800s and once I've tested with some others, like my friends HD650s.


----------



## mrAdrian

STOP posting about your hfi 580 already! Stop reminding me my DJ1s!!!
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> plz post then. i would like to know how the 215mW @ 32 Ohms would do for something like an HD800  is there any hiss at 40 with gain 12 for you?
> 
> and yes. im loving mine too . i do 30 on gain 6 and it's already quite loud. but then again. i have a no too hard to drive hfi 580. my shure's are a bit harder but still no problems. i have to keep it on 15 with 6dB gain with my earbuds


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I don't notice any hiss, but my source material was almost all 96KHz at 24bit, so it was pretty clean. I'll have to listen to some of my lower quality stuff, like my 192 - 320 MP3s.
> 
> I'll certainly post back when I get my HD800s and once I've tested with some others, like my friends HD650s.


 

 K thx man. 
   


  Quote: 





mradrian said:


> STOP posting about your hfi 580 already! Stop reminding me my DJ1s!!!


 

 What happened to ur DJ1?


----------



## gohanssjn

Aside from 24bit/192hz, is there any benefit to using SPDIF (coax) over USB?


----------



## Sonnyt

Hi *bowei006, thanks for your insight into LOD.  I wonder if using micro-usb to mini (3.5mm) jack does the same thing.  The thing is I have Galaxy S2 Android phone and no longer have iPhone.  Will I be able to go from micro-usb (phone side) to usb on E17?  I just pre-ordered one from MP4 (should I?).*
   
*thanks.*


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sonnyt said:


> Hi *bowei006, thanks for your insight into LOD.  I wonder if using micro-usb to mini (3.5mm) jack does the same thing.  The thing is I have Galaxy S2 Android phone and no longer have iPhone.  Will I be able to go from micro-usb (phone side) to usb on E17?  I just pre-ordered one from MP4 (should I?).*
> 
> *thanks.*


 

*"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"*
  Sorry I have no idea if if micro usb to 3.5mm or micro usb to usb would work. I don't think it does. if it did, i would have heard of it and android owners on head fi would holller  but still. i don't have any info for you right now. Sorry. It's safe to order from there. only problem is if your E17 starts having problems


----------



## lshalamb

Just got my preorder with mp4nation too, looking forward to receiving a fully functional unit 
  after all, this looks to be the biggest bang for the buck if looked at the impressions of others.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Just got my preorder with mp4nation too, looking forward to receiving a *fully functional unit *
> after all, this looks to be the biggest bang for the buck if looked at the impressions of others.


 
  fully functional? what do you mean. There has been no proof of E17 not being functional. All we know is some users are experiencing issues where their Windows OS based system's just won't work over USB with E17 but will work on other OS's.


----------



## matics

Quote: 





sonnyt said:


> * Will I be able to go from micro-usb (phone side) to usb on E17?*
> 
> *thanks.*


 


  Not yet. The USB Host feature is still not fully implemented in the latest version of Android. I have a rooted Nexus S 4G with Android 4.0.3 and don't have the functionality you're hoping to get. I hope it happens soon and when and if it does, you'll need a USB OTG cable to connect the E17 to your Android phone.


----------



## lshalamb

For me, and probably for anyone else, full functionality of a given device is when it works as advertised (e.g. plug in, follow instructions, enjoy). I do not believe that it states in the user manual like "if you are running windows 7 you may experience some issues, or maybe not" There were some comments here of people using win7 and e17 working properly, therefore I call it NOT fully functional when I have to mess around with my pc to make something of $150 worth work with it.
  I hope this is a clear explanation?
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> fully functional? what do you mean. There has been no proof of E17 not being functional. All we know is some users are experiencing issues where their Windows OS based system's just won't work over USB with E17 but will work on other OS's.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> For me, and probably for anyone else, full functionality of a given device is when it works as advertised (e.g. plug in, follow instructions, enjoy). I do not believe that it states in the user manual like "if you are running windows 7 you may experience some issues, or maybe not" There were some comments here of people using win7 and e17 working properly, therefore I call it NOT fully functional when I have to mess around with my pc to make something of $150 worth work with it.
> I hope this is a clear explanation?


 

 I asked what your definition was. Because it could just be as likely that it is Window's problem. If you buy a brand new OEM part for your car. But when you try to fit it in, you can't because there is something wrong with the car (deformation in that area atc) would you call the part that won't fit...not functional and faulty? As of right now, this problem that has only plauged 3 Head-Fi'ers....out of who knows how many (if any head fi'er had a problem...they would come crawling back and asking what is happening) and not to mention. It seems it works with another OS. therefore still pinning my initial blame on the Win 7 OS. on either the fact that it's driver's or support is not full or on both the products if the E17's usb chip just..isn't compatible with select chips under windows. There is no information right now. 
   
   




agentxxl said:


> Yes, Headamp (Pico manufacturer) and others with similar amps (like Ray Samuels Audio) will have to be "on the lookout". When Fiio can release a DAC/amp at about 1/4 the cost, with very similar performance and a few extras to boot, the sales of the higher priced Pico DAC/amp are sure to fall.
> 
> Dale


 
  that's what i thought  fiio is moving up and hacking away at competition. great reviews and the fact that theyare a brand that caters to regular head fi'ers gives them a huge market following(buyers and users)
  
   




matics said:


> Not yet. The USB Host feature is still not fully implemented in the latest version of Android. I have a rooted Nexus S 4G with Android 4.0.3 and don't have the functionality you're hoping to get. I hope it happens soon and when and if it does, you'll need a USB OTG cable to connect the E17 to your Android phone.


 
  Thank you for that clarifaction. helped me know as well as the asker. Very good answer. +1 rep right there...even if it means nothing on head fi


----------



## lshalamb

So out of the two, I think MS OS7 has a lot larger audience... comming to your metaphorics, which is the "deformated car", and which is the "part"? xD 
  Don't get me wrong, I do understand that the problem is not persistent across OS7 users, and that it works perfectly with other OS', my problem is rather the fact that FiiO should have a response to the issue, because they made their product with support of OS7, not Microsoft made their windows so that FiiO could use it for its products. 
  In my very specific case? I am using Alienware m17xr3, which does not behave very friendly with ubuntu, and I perform a large amount of work on my Win7, I do not feel comfortable giving up the ability to use the OS in favor of a E17 
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I asked what your definition was. Because it could just be as likely that it is Window's problem. If you buy a brand new OEM part for your car. But when you try to fit it in, you can't because there is something wrong with the car (deformation in that area atc) would you call the part that won't fit...not functional and faulty? As of right now, this problem that has only plauged 3 Head-Fi'ers....out of who knows how many (if any head fi'er had a problem...they would come crawling back and asking what is happening) and not to mention. It seems it works with another OS. therefore still pinning my initial blame on the Win 7 OS. on either the fact that it's driver's or support is not full or on both the products if the E17's usb chip just..isn't compatible with select chips under windows. There is no information right now.


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]Currently using HD 598 with laptop and klipsch image x10, ultimate ears triplefi 10 with iPhone4[/size]
   
   
  [size=11pt]Already ordered E17 in batch 2 mainly to boost HD 598…. question is will x10, UE 10 will also be benefited with E17+iPhone4 or output amp of iPhone is enough[/size]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> So out of the two, I think MS OS7 has a lot larger audience... comming to your metaphorics, which is the "deformated car", and which is the "part"? xD
> Don't get me wrong, I do understand that the problem is not persistent across OS7 users, and that it works perfectly with other OS', my problem is rather the fact that FiiO should have a response to the issue, because they made their product with support of OS7, not Microsoft made their windows so that FiiO could use it for its products.
> In my very specific case? I am using Alienware m17xr3, which does not behave very friendly with ubuntu, and I perform a large amount of work on my Win7, I do not feel comfortable giving up the ability to use the OS in favor of a E17


 


  Then we are in mutual understanding...You are trying to pull out the Apple fan in me. It's impossible to make things super universal espeically with microsoft. since any hardware get's in. Basically...the problem is small. and it's not even known which is the perpretrator of the problem. plz note that fiio is a small company that has their hands full with orders for second batch. new plan's and etc. They may have seen this post and about the problem. if not. you can message them to alert them of it. but...i don't know what answer they can give you other than a more professional answer than what i have been saying. as...they don't(probably) have a perpretrating computer that is causing them problems and can personally diagnose in a closed enviroment..if it's only happened to 3 people on head fi who have bought it..out of who knows how much stock in the first batch........ they are gonna have a hard time seeing what's wrong. it's like having a kid who's bullied. he is fine with everyone else. does well, does as told. no problem however there is this bully. and anytime u pair them up... at school (win 7) they mismatch and ...don't mix well. however the kid won't tell you what is wrong. you don't even know he is bullied other than some..maybe signs. and......there are thousand's of bullies out there. ...it's hard to do this stuff man.


----------



## sondrizzle

I just got my E17 in the mail today and currently use it with my Beyerdynamic DT770 (and I love the setup). However, I'm really new to this stuff and I have a question about something that keeps happening that I just noticed. The sound just keeps fluctuating in volume all the time. I run it on my Win7 desktop via USB with the volume in Windows set at 100% (through SPDIF it says). I play music via iTunes if that matter. Anybody know why it might be doing this?

 EDIT: Okay, I did my troubleshooting before this but never tried to stop my SC2 stream in the background. Fixed everything. Funny how that works, my fault guys.
   
  Oh, btw, is there like any recommended settings for the E17 or is it just drive as you please? Sorry, new to all this.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





sondrizzle said:


> I just got my E17 in the mail today and currently use it with my Beyerdynamic DT770 (and I love the setup). However, I'm really new to this stuff and I have a question about something that keeps happening that I just noticed. The sound just keeps fluctuating in volume all the time. I run it on my Win7 desktop via USB with the volume in Windows set at 100% (through SPDIF it says). I play music via iTunes if that matter. Anybody know why it might be doing this?
> 
> EDIT: Okay, I did my troubleshooting before this but never tried to stop my SC2 stream in the background. Fixed everything. Funny how that works, my fault guys.
> 
> Oh, btw, is there like any recommended settings for the E17 or is it just drive as you please? Sorry, new to all this.


 

 Do you have 'Sound Check' enabled in iTunes?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sondrizzle said:


> I just got my E17 in the mail today and currently use it with my Beyerdynamic DT770 (and I love the setup). However, I'm really new to this stuff and I have a question about something that keeps happening that I just noticed. The sound just keeps fluctuating in volume all the time. I run it on my Win7 desktop via USB with the volume in Windows set at 100% (through SPDIF it says). I play music via iTunes if that matter. Anybody know why it might be doing this?


 

 after you plugeed your E17 in to your computer through USB. did you go to the sound icon in the bottom right (if you didn't change it) right click. click "playback devices" se your E17 there and "set as default"? the E17 takes a min to instal. Next go back if you did exactly that. the E17 is set to default right. now click the icon. and then properties. make sure no crazy DSP or DTS this or other stuff is selected. is your E17 displaying USB on the screen as input?
   
  ....does the numbers change when teh sound flucuates. like u set it to 30...then uhear it flucuate or something and u check back and it is less or more..the buttons are higher than device. they can easily be pressed.it has happened to me. 
   
  I have some badly mastered (indie) songs that flucuate their volumes on purpose. does this happen to the same song orjust every song?
   
  is itunes normalizing volume(sound check)..is anything normalizing volume(most don't usually know the answer to this, but external programs can easily dothis).
   
  is antyhing else playing?
   
  anyway:
*"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*
   
   
  glad you fixed it. *anyone else having problems with sound flucuating..check this*
   
   
   
 Originally Posted by *sondrizzle*  





> EDIT: Okay, I did my troubleshooting before this but never tried to stop my SC2 stream in the background. Fixed everything. Funny how that works, my fault guys.
> 
> Oh, btw, is there like any recommended settings for the E17 or is it just drive as you please? Sorry, new to all this.


 
   
  it depends on what headphones you are using this with. 6dB gain is usually what you want to be on. if it's not loud enough. go to 12dB gain. i have some easy driven earbuds. i could go down to 0dB gain. but i hear nohiss on 6dB and i just stay in the sub 20 level with it. . you only really need to go up.
   
  On computer? Set it to 24bit by 96KHz if you can  your E17 will then display 24bit 96KHz at the top of it's display


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=medium]Currently using HD 598 with laptop and klipsch image x10, ultimate ears triplefi 10 with iPhone4[/size]
> 
> 
> [size=11pt]Already ordered E17 in batch 2 mainly to boost HD 598…. question is will x10, UE 10 will also be benefited with E17+iPhone4 or output amp of iPhone is enough[/size]


 
  so. you are only using HD598 with laptop and the IEM's with iphone. haha i like this question. you're asking. "ok i will be using the e17 with my HD 598's. with the E17 that i will have in my possesion. would it sound good/better if used with my iphone?"
   
  since you already have it. yes of course  i recommend an LOD. FiiO  L3 or L9. not any others. the other is either a walkman wire or a low quality ipod lod that fiio made for regular people. the L9 is more compact.
   
  an lod serves to not dual amp. dual amping adds the ipod/iphone's muddy amp and headphone jack circuitry to the mix along with the E17's. this leave's effects of the PMP's sound in ur overal sound. usually preferable and most high enders do it...it's just not preferable when pairing with a regular consumer device. this also reduces hiss, distortion, noise and other artificacts that hte iphone or PMP's amp had.. the L3 is $8 and L9 is about $10. 
   
  Since you already have it. use it  easily strapped

   
  if you dont' want your screen blocked.* i would recommend/suggest getting velcor strips and using those*. (having a case on iphone is also recommended) this way it is removable and won't obstruct screen. get good ones. you don't wan tone device going by by to the ground. i have only tested this with double sided 3M tape that holds 5LBS. and it worked well but left residue and is ...more or less temporarily permanent(you get what i mean right) and other members have suggested and have had luck with velctro strips
   
  dont' worry! i havne't forgotten you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



* one for you as well!*
   
   
 *"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*


----------



## sondrizzle

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Do you have 'Sound Check' enabled in iTunes?


 

 Just checked, nope. Not selected.
   


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> *snip*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hah, yeah, my wallet suffers, glad I'm not broke over it.
   
  The problem I think is that the E17 hears two wildly different sounds, one is a song (drums, bass, guitar, vocals etc) and one is gaming (keyboard clicking, talking and shooting/explosions) and then adjusts. I noticed that the sound only fluctuates when something really audible happens in the stream. At least that is what my troubleshooting suggests.
   
  And thanks for the pointers. Updated the settings in Windows to 24bit/96KHz, set the gain to 6db. I usually have it between 20-25 in volume. Anyways, thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sondrizzle said:


> Just checked, nope. Not selected.
> 
> 
> Hah, yeah, my wallet suffers, glad I'm not broke over it.
> ...


 
  so you are listening to music as well as gaming! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 haha. you can't exactly blame the E17 there. if you don't hear anything normally. then it's probably you.(not always. what you said could happen if the E17 or other devices tried to do this and that with the data they are getting)
   
  It should have already been set to 6dB. if you had it on 0dB and had no hiss. but switched to 6dB. lowered it to your listening volume or hear hiss or anything. go back. teh E17 wil have hiss and crackles if you raise volume very quickly. if you read a couple pages back this is normal. the E17 will get rid of it after about 2 seconds of hissing though. no problems
   
  so how are you enjoying head fi and the E17


----------



## sondrizzle

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> so you are listening to music as well as gaming!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, maybe I should've taught about it beforehand, but hey, it's just sound right? But yeah, it was at 6db and I put it down to 0db because I was testing it out and it sounded okay so I didn't put it back. And I'm enjoying it, thanks, lots of information though. Near overload. And the sound is great. Hearing details I've never heard before makes me want to go through all my music just to find new nuances.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sondrizzle said:


> Yeah, maybe I should've taught about it beforehand, but hey, it's just sound right? But yeah, it was at 6db and I put it down to 0db because I was testing it out and it sounded okay so I didn't put it back. And I'm enjoying it, thanks, lots of information though. Near overload. And the sound is great. Hearing details I've never heard before makes me want to go through all my music just to find new nuances.


 

 i'm doing optical here with 80%+ of my library CD ripped  . i could already hear most of what was going on in sounds. As standard Mac DAC and amp was already fantastic. the bass just hits with bass boost and has thoose thump boom tight bam boowsh sounds that i just love now  i wonder why people still ask me if the E17 is worth it. it isn't to some people. but i give them a test of questions on what they have, what they wnat, range price. and a lot answer it and the E17 is the answer.  like the other user said. pico slm by head amp and others bettah watch out  
   
  i was kidding about" wondering why". it was just an overstatement of what i meant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  anyway. loving teh Wolfson DAC  it's something people forget about when using. heck even i did


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Sigh!  I woke up this morning and was cleaning my desk and moved my E17 from one spot on the desk to another and heard a strange sound.  At first I thought it was something I dropped, but I decided to investigate.  There seems to be something loose inside my E17, because there is a rattle that wasnt there a few days ago.  The unit works as advertised as of right now but I am concerned it maybe something that needs to be addressed.  Does anyone else have a rattle when lightly shaking or moving the E17 in your hand?  The unit has been treated with white gloves since I received it and I am not sure what could of broken inside the unit.  Any help or comments would be helpful.
   
  FiveThreeEcho


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> Sigh!  I woke up this morning and was cleaning my desk and moved my E17 from one spot on the desk to another and heard a strange sound.  At first I thought it was something I dropped, but I decided to investigate.  There seems to be something loose inside my E17, because there is a rattle that wasnt there a few days ago.  The unit works as advertised as of right now but I am concerned it maybe something that needs to be addressed.  Does anyone else have a rattle when lightly shaking or moving the E17 in your hand?  The unit has been treated with white gloves since I received it and I am not sure what could of broken inside the unit.  Any help or comments would be helpful.
> 
> FiveThreeEcho


 


  i just shook it too...and indeed.* there is indeed a very small shaky rattle.* i dind't shake mine when i first got it so i can't compare..but mine has also bee treated with white gloves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  it sounds more prevelant when shaking the device vertically (when held in upright position)
   
  We need a comment from FiiO on this issue and the Win 7 one. unlike the Win 7 one. this should be an easy issue to dissementate. mine is also working with no differences


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i just shook it too...and indeed.* there is indeed a very small shaky rattle.* i dind't shake mine when i first got it so i can't compare..but mine has also bee treated with white gloves
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

      Yes, I only heard the rattling when moving it vertically not from side to side.  Hopefully we can get a comment, because I am a bit alarmed that something inside is actually rattling around.
   
       Also, I am running Win7 64 on my computer and have had ZERO issues with drivers.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> Yes, I only heard the rattling when moving it vertically not from side to side.  Hopefully we can get a comment, because I am a bit alarmed that something inside is actually rattling around.


 


  i have rarely had any performance issues from rattles....but i want an answer as well. i made an video and will post shortly to show users what i mean
   




   
  no. the E17 didn't hit the phone. when moving back into place, my handle near the mic moved and created a sound. with it being so close to the mic...that's the sound you get.if i hit the phone..the video would have shaken  a lot..espeically with the shaking i was doing


----------



## A Kennedy4

To all those who have the e17, how well does the Bass boot function work? Im looking to amp my Senn HD 600's with this and get some better bass cause currently, there is hardly any with it unamped


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





a kennedy4 said:


> To all those who have the e17, how well does the Bass boot function work? Im looking to amp my Senn HD 600's with this and get some better bass cause currently, there is hardly any with it unamped


 


  i don't have the Senn HD600's but with my headphones.......oh lalal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i wanted the 580's for bass. but there are times when i wanted super consumer bass with not too much loss of everything else. ya know. superbass....oh my. these things. delivered...these things...legit delivered. however. if your headphone drivers can't do bass. then this won't do too to much super difference. i will test with my studio's later. but...fiio bass boost from this and my E5 is great in my opinion


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Aside from 24bit/192hz, is there any benefit to using SPDIF (coax) over USB?


 


  Sorry to quote my own post, but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this.  Trying to decide how to use it best on the desktop.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## MickeyVee

Just checked the mail and my E17 arrived a day early.  Unfortunately it's been sitting in the cold most of the day so have it plugged in and charging.  Going to give it an hour or so before I try using it.  Good first sign is that my Mac recognizes it as FIIO USB DAC-E17. Nice surprise, got a t-shirt with it.. 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Edit.. OK.. I just had to give it a try while charging.  Did not go through the menus  so I'm assuming it's all at default. Connected it to my v-Moda M80's, put on some Royksopp (The Understanding, Alpha Male) and I like what's coming out of this.  Bass is definitely tighter  and it sounds a little more open than on the E10. Not bad out of the box.  Also, it does not suffer from the famed E10 plug problem.  I have the iPhone cable on the M80's and the connection is perfect. On the E10, I have to switch to the standard, non remote cable.
  Just for giggles, I played 'Alpha Male' through my Matrix Mini-i.. a little more open,airy, dynamic and controlled but not as much as you think for 2.5x the price.  Good Job FiiO!  Still need to test it with my HD650's and HD25's.
   
  Going to let it run all night and see what it's like tomorrow. It may open up after some burn in.


----------



## lshalamb

Actually I'm curious if has anyone received their orders from 2nd preorder yet?


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i have rarely had any performance issues from rattles....but i want an answer as well. i made an video and will post shortly to show users what i mean
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Bowei006: Yes, that very faint rattle is what I was talking about in your video.  I never shook mine that hard, but I could hear it from just moving it in my hand, etc.  It may be just the design or the components, but I would like an answer from FiiO.  Thanks for posting the video.
   
  FiveThreeEcho


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Aside from 24bit/192hz, is there any benefit to using SPDIF (coax) over USB?


 
   
  Sound-wise no, but it does free up a USB port on your PC.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Actually I'm curious if has anyone received their orders from 2nd preorder yet?


 

 A little early for that, but anything is possible. From what I've seen/read, the 2nd batches of the E17 are just leaving the factory this week. They will hopefully be back in stock at the popular North American retailers by next week, with shipments going out to customers by the 2nd week of Feb. Other dealers won't likely have stock until late Feb/early March. Alas this is all pretty much hearsay as the info has come from audio websites across the net. I haven't seen official comments other than one of the South Asian Fiio distributors showing a shipment leaving their facilities yesterday evening:
   
  http://www.facebook.com/fiiophil


----------



## Blueiz

I think the VOL+ and VOL- buttons rattle a bit... no big deal.


----------



## weitn

Does the E17 has a minimum burn in period? Does it gets better after certain hours?
   
  I used the E17 with HD598 (laptop/iPhone 4s->E17(usb/DAC)->headphone), HD598 sound better especially when I increase the bass to +4, compared to if I listen it directly from my laptop HP Compaq 6910p without E17. Bose MIE2i also sound better with the bass +4 as Bose is always lack of bass (I used MIE2i mainly for taking long call).
   
  bowei006 did mentioned about the E17 might not be able to fully drive the HD650. I think maybe he is right. I don't hear any different with HD650 (laptop/iPhone 4s->E17(usb/DAC)->HD650). I used Gain 12, Bass 0 and Treble 0 on E17. Have anyone try E17 with HD650? My HD650 has more than 300 hours burn in time. Maybe my expection is high for E17 after all the good reviews.
  I mainly listen to latest/popular songs (genres pop, dance, pop rock, alternative rock) which are mostly 256kbps and 320kbps.


----------



## weitn

Quote:


fivethreeecho said:


> Yes, I only heard the rattling when moving it vertically not from side to side.  Hopefully we can get a comment, because I am a bit alarmed that something inside is actually rattling around.
> 
> Also, I am running Win7 64 on my computer and have had ZERO issues with drivers.


 

 My E17 has the rattling sound too when I shake it. It was coming from the inside. It wasn't the buttons.


----------



## Warwick108

I am deciding weather to buy a E7 or E17, currently the E7 can be bought for around 90 bux and the E17 for around 160
  I have a pair of Bose quietcomfort 15..
  now my question is it worth the extra money for the E17? as my headphones aint really a pair of audiophile headphones 
  let me know what yous think =)
   
  first time poster long time lurker =)


----------



## shootertwist

guys really no way to have the E17's dac function work on an ipad? even through a usb hub? thanks


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Does the E17 has a minimum burn in period? Does it gets better after certain hours?
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not sure that a burn-in applies with the E17. In my personal experience, solid state devices rarely benefit from a burn-in period. Headphones however have moving diaphragms and voice coils that do change their characteristics with use, if ever so slightly. I did say rarely for solid-state devices as I have been able to perceive subtle changes after owning my Pico for three years. Perhaps it's due to the only moving component, the volume potentiometer, perhaps not. Every other solid state device I've experienced seems to sound much the same as it ever did, but the speakers and other moving components have shown changes over time.
   
  As for your question about the HD650, I can't say for sure yet. I'm going to be testing my E17 with a friends pair of HD650s on the weekend. They are definitely tough to drive, with their 300 ohm resistive impedance. My 250 ohm Beyers have always been similarly hard to drive, with my friend and I often hearing similar results using our headphones on the same amps, or DAC/amp in the case of the E17. What volume level are you using on your E17? I too am using a gain setting of 12dB but didn't start really hearing the improved soundstage of the E17 until volume level 35 and above. Bass boost also really made my Beyers sing. I'll let you know next Monday after I've tried the HD650s with my E17.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





warwick108 said:


> I am deciding weather to buy a E7 or E17, currently the E7 can be bought for around 90 bux and the E17 for around 160
> I have a pair of Bose quietcomfort 15..
> now my question is it worth the extra money for the E17? as my headphones aint really a pair of audiophile headphones
> let me know what yous think =)
> ...


 

 Not sure where you are seeing the E17 for $160. That price seems high - I picked up mine for less, including shipping. That said, you might be correct in that the Bose headphones might not benefit from an amp - I really don't know anything about the Bose series of headphones.  They could however utilize the digital audio if you have some 96/24 or higher rate audio. Pretty well every headphone out there can benefit from listening to higher sample rate audio via SPDIF or with a well implemented USB DAC. I personally couldn't buy the older E7, knowing that the E17 exists, although both are very decent products at their price point. The E17 is the 1st Fiio product I've purchased for myself, but I have used the E7 in the past. Best bet would be to see if you can find a dealer or a fellow Head-Fier in your area that might let you try your Bose on their E7 and/or E17.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





shootertwist said:


> guys really no way to have the E17's dac function work on an ipad? even through a usb hub? thanks


 

 I've never tried the iPad with a powered USB hub connected to the USB adapter of the camera connection kit. Not sure if it would work, but I'll see about giving it a try.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





shootertwist said:


> guys really no way to have the E17's dac function work on an ipad? even through a usb hub? thanks


 

 Well gosh darn!! It woks... cumbersome and almost impossible to keep it connected with the USB hub I tried, but it does work! As long as you are willing to live with the 48KHz/24bit sample rate limitation for playback through the iPads iPod app, it's a working solution. Just not overly portable unless you can rig up a battery powered USB hub, which brings us back to bulky and not very portable. A good suggestion though...
   
  EDIT: Looking for a battery powered USB hub? Why not build one yourself? http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=162744


----------



## shootertwist

^thanks Agent XXL, appreciate it    i was really looking forward to the E17 and use its dac function on my ipad2 and unfortunately it doesnt work as mentioned here. hope there's a workaround though


----------



## Feckie

Just installed E17 on XP and it installed successfully. Windows 7 64bit still having issues after I reinstalled USB drivers, has anyone tried theirs using a USB 3 socket? Unfortunately i am at a point where I will be returning it. Shame as it looks like a good product.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





feckie said:


> Just installed E17 on XP and it installed successfully. Windows 7 64bit still having issues after I reinstalled USB drivers, has anyone tried theirs using a USB 3 socket? Unfortunately i am at a point where I will be returning it. Shame as it looks like a good product.


 


   There will have not any quality problem if you can use E17 on XP or Mac OS. but some user do can not use it on WIN7 32bit/64bit, the reason may cause by some different reason, We will collect all the possibility and tell you how to solve it. below is
   
  some reason need to be noted:
   
  1, Don't use the USB port on the front panel of your PC, it will be better to connect to the USB port on the back.
   
  2, Don't connect to any USB HUB, unless you have a very good HUB.
   
  3, Make sure you had select the right device in audio playback device on your PC and don't forget to check the playback program like foobar , window media center or something like that.
   
  4, Try to unplug and plug again to see if the OS can find the new device and automatic install the driver. and it will be better to charge the E17 to full power.
   
  Also I guess there may some other solution and it will be great if everyone can share together! and please understand that we can only make sure the E17 can support any WIN OS and MAC OS but each PC/MAC is different so it become
   
  mission impossible to us to check out all the possibility.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Well gosh darn!! It woks... cumbersome and almost impossible to keep it connected with the USB hub I tried, but it does work! As long as you are willing to live with the 48KHz/24bit sample rate limitation for playback through the iPads iPod app, it's a working solution. Just not overly portable unless you can rig up a battery powered USB hub, which brings us back to bulky and not very portable. A good suggestion though...
> 
> EDIT: Looking for a battery powered USB hub? Why not build one yourself? http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=162744


 

 Great! maybe we should make a USB cable which can support extra power supply!


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Great! maybe we should make a USB cable which can support extra power supply!


 

 If you do, you need to make it so that all of the power comes from one of the USB type A connectors with the other USB type A connector supplying just the USB data. In  the picture below, for example, the red connector would supply power and the black one the data. You can't have power on the black one as the E17 will still try to use it - I have two of these 'dual type A to micro USB type B' cables, but neither of them will work connecting the iPad to the E17 since both type A connectors have power connections. Hope that makes sense. And for my work troubleshooting the problem, I get a sample cable to verify that it works. 
   
     
  EDIT: just to clarify how the cable would work: the red type A connector would plug into a USB battery or external USB power source (i.e. powered hub or USB wall wart), the black type A cable would plug into the CCK adapter which is in turn plugged into the iPad, and the type B micro USB would be plugged into the E17.


----------



## Feckie

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> There will have not any quality problem if you can use E17 on XP or Mac OS. but some user do can not use it on WIN7 32bit/64bit, the reason may cause by some different reason, We will collect all the possibility and tell you how to solve it. below is
> 
> some reason need to be noted:
> 
> ...


 

 1. I am using an Alienware M14x laptop, and I have tried both USB 2 and 3 with no success.
  2. Am not using a Hub
  3. Cannot see the E17 in the playback area.
  4. Done this many times


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





feckie said:


> 1. I am using an Alienware M14x laptop, and I have tried both USB 2 and 3 with no success.
> 2. Am not using a Hub
> 3. Cannot see the E17 in the playback area.
> 4. Done this many times


 

 Feckie - I see your machine has three USB controllers in it, 2 x Renesas USB 3 and 1 x Intel. See if you can try other ports on your motherboard - you have a Intel Series 6/C200 controller on your motherboard and I know that one works with the E17 on Win7 x64 - it's the same controller I have on my Win7 x64 box and my E17 definitely works. It's possible that ports that appear to be USB 2.0 are still connected to the USB 3.0 controllers. Good luck!


----------



## Warwick108

Bose quietcomfort 15 with E7 or E17?
  any suggestions will be appreciated
  thanks


----------



## putente

mickeyvee said:


> Just checked the mail and my E17 arrived a day early.  Unfortunately it's been sitting in the cold most of the day so have it plugged in and charging.  Going to give it an hour or so before I try using it.  Good first sign is that my Mac recognizes it as FIIO USB DAC-E17. Nice surprise, got a t-shirt with it..
> 
> ~~~~~~~
> 
> ...


 

  Great! I'm waiting for your impressions of the E17 with both Sennheiser's...


----------



## Feckie

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Feckie - I see your machine has three USB controllers in it, 2 x Renesas USB 3 and 1 x Intel. See if you can try other ports on your motherboard - you have a Intel Series 6/C200 controller on your motherboard and I know that one works with the E17 on Win7 x64 - it's the same controller I have on my Win7 x64 box and my E17 definitely works. It's possible that ports that appear to be USB 2.0 are still connected to the USB 3.0 controllers. Good luck!


 


  Tried every USB port with no success, uninstalled all USB drivers and reinstalled with the same result. Connect E17 to another laptop with Windows 7 64 and had the same result. Sigh. Reinstalled all Laptop drivers and updated BIOS and still does not work. 
   
  I have the E17 turned on with it set to USB before connecting, this is right isnt it?


----------



## Warwick108

have you tried restarting the laptop with the fiio connected?


----------



## Feckie

Quote: 





warwick108 said:


> have you tried restarting the laptop with the fiio connected?


 


  yes


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





feckie said:


> Tried every USB port with no success, uninstalled all USB drivers and reinstalled with the same result. Connect E17 to another laptop with Windows 7 64 and had the same result. Sigh. Reinstalled all Laptop drivers and updated BIOS and still does not work.
> 
> I have the E17 turned on with it set to USB before connecting, this is right isnt it?


 

 Just to clarify - have you been able to get the USB to work on any laptop, PC, Mac or Linux box? If not, and even if so, have you tried the hardware reset by disconnecting all cables, turning the unit off and then inserting a pin/thin paperclip into the reset hole on the top, between the headphone and SPDIF input jacks? You can also try doing a software reset to load defaults using the System menu. In fact, I'd try the software reset first, and then resort to the hardware reset if the software one still doesn't let you use the E17 via USB.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





warwick108 said:


> Bose quietcomfort 15 with E7 or E17?
> any suggestions will be appreciated
> thanks


 

 Did you see my reply to your original post asking the same question? See post #989 in this thread...


----------



## Warwick108

sorry mustve missed that post =(
  well i live in australia and the only place i seem to be able to order them from is addictedtoaudio.com.au
  they have it listed at 158 i believe, sucks to live with kangaroo's everything is more expensive
   
  I have been to the store but the e17 was sold out within 48 hours and i need to wait for second shipment =(
  thanks for the information though really appreciate it =)


----------



## Feckie

bump


----------



## Feckie

XP 32bit (This was only a driver test, did not check audio)
   
  Tried software and hardware reset still no luck (how long should i hold down the reset button?)


----------



## bowei006

Thankyou agent xxl for doing what im doing. Ferrying lost souls to safety!  i just knew tere was going to be a lot of replies when i sleep due to what we did yesterday  i read theough all the posts ur doing a good job


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





feckie said:


> XP 32bit (This was only a driver test, did not check audio)
> 
> Tried software and hardware reset still no luck (how long should i hold down the reset button?)


 


  it take 3 or 4 seconds to reset E7/E17.
   
  We will discuss with Tenor to see how we can do to help our user with the compatible problem about win xp, win 7, mac os!


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





warwick108 said:


> sorry mustve missed that post =(
> well i live in australia and the only place i seem to be able to order them from is addictedtoaudio.com.au
> they have it listed at 158 i believe, sucks to live with kangaroo's everything is more expensive
> 
> ...


 


  it will take 45 days to produce the second batch of E17. very sorry for that and I guess you all know that the CNY is a big problem for all chinese brand and there are only 7 workers back to our factory now.


----------



## AykDaddy

Ok just received my E17 and plugged it into my iPhone 4s with Headphone Out and Westone 4s.
  While I am at work and dont have the mindset to fully evaluate the sound quality, the deep dark black background with no hiss at all is very obvious. I do not have much expereince with those 500+ Dollar Amps but this one seems very high quality. I can compare my Zo3 (version 3) at the moment and to my ears it is like night and day concerning that background hiss.
   
  Excited to use the E17 at home with LOD and my ALAC Files


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> it will take 45 days to produce the second batch of E17. very sorry for that and I guess you all know that the CNY is a big problem for all chinese brand and there are only 7 workers back to our factory now.


 


  is the second batch the same size as the first?


  Quote: 





aykdaddy said:


> Ok just received my E17 and plugged it into my iPhone 4s with Headphone Out and Westone 4s.
> While I am at work and dont have the mindset to fully evaluate the sound quality, the deep dark black background with no hiss at all is very obvious. I do not have much expereince with those 500+ Dollar Amps but this one seems very high quality. I can compare my Zo3 (version 3) at the moment and to my ears it is like night and day concerning that background hiss.
> 
> Excited to use the E17 at home with LOD and my ALAC Files


 

 great to see that you are liking it


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> it will take 45 days to produce the second batch of E17. very sorry for that and I guess you all know that the CNY is a big problem for all chinese brand and there are only 7 workers back to our factory now.


 

 Does this mean the release date of middle of Febuary will be pushed back for the second batch? (I knew I should have ordered the first batch)


----------



## Danji

Just a quick question regarding the E9+E17 Combo: is there any way to make the E9 switch to taking the E17 as source without having to unplug the line-in cable on the E9?
  => if u have a line-in cable connected to the E9, it will always be taken as the source, E17 is not working when docked in.


----------



## JamesFiiO

yes, the size is still the same, but why do you think we will change it ?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





danji said:


> Just a quick question regarding the E9+E17 Combo: is there any way to make the E9 switch to taking the E17 as source without having to unplug the line-in cable on the E9?
> => if u have a line-in cable connected to the E9, it will always be taken as the source, E17 is not working when docked in.


 


   
  Sorry not, should we includes a input switcher to select the input ?


----------



## Danji

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> yes, the size is still the same, but why do you think we will change it ?


 
  I guess he meant the amount of produced units!?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





etrips said:


> Does this mean the release date of middle of Febuary will be pushed back for the second batch? (I knew I should have ordered the first batch)


 


  Not, the first batch will includes two shipment, and there are still more E17 under production and will finish in this month due to the long long holiday for CNY. so far there are only few 
   
  worker back to factory and all the current E17 were made by our engineer and office staff.


----------



## Danji

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Sorry not, should we includes a input switcher to select the input ?


 
  Personally i would love to have this feature, as i have a couple of DACs and Amps.
  It's not really a major flaw but i would come in handy if u also use the E17 as part of ur mobile rig .
  I use the E9 for bedside listening, atm with a µDAC. The E17 as DAC is a big improvement from the short listening i had till now.
  I will from now on use the E9+E17 combo, but if for whatever reason I dont have the E17 at home, it would be nice to just use the µDAC then without having to (un)plug the cables.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





danji said:


> Personally i would love to have this feature, as i have a couple of DACs and Amps.
> It's not really a major flaw but i would come in handy if u also use the E17 as part of ur mobile rig .
> I use the E9 for bedside listening, atm with a µDAC. The E17 as DAC is a big improvement from the short listening i had till now.
> I will from now on use the E9+E17 combo, but if for whatever reason I dont have the E17 at home, it would be nice to just use the µDAC then without having to (un)plug the cables.


 


  Got it, we will consider to add this feature in the upgrade model of E9!


----------



## bowei006

I thik u read it wrong. I was wondering if the number of units u r shipping in the second batch will be more than first batch


----------



## lshalamb

Wait... so you are saying that all the E17s in the second batch are to be shipped out in approximately 45 days!? I should've ordered something else...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Wait... so you are saying that all the E17s in the second batch are to be shipped out in approximately 45 days!? I should've ordered something else...


 


   
   
  This is common knowledge if adequete hw and prowling was done on thai thread. There are many anticipating it showing up in the micca and headphone bar stores. One less person creates oppurtunity for others. Most dont want to pre order. I didnt. That why they sold out in 7hours of tweeting availbility


----------



## lshalamb

I mean don't get me wrong, this is something I wanted so badly that I preordered; I concluded from the mp4 that they will actually ship in mid feb (which is round 2 more weeks from now) and that was fine. Now, had I known that they wont be able to produce the 2nd batch in next 45 days...
  I do understand the disadvantages of preordering though.
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *bowei006* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> it take 3 or 4 seconds to reset E7/E17.
> 
> We will discuss with Tenor to see how we can do to help our user with the compatible problem about win xp, win 7, mac os!


 

 We will greatly appreciate it   I'd love to be able to use it with my Windows 7 laptop but can't because of all the noise and static it adds.  Let me know if there is any information I can forward to help find a fix (like a system log or something, I have no clue).


----------



## JamesMcProgger

still waiting on MP4nation!


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> I mean don't get me wrong, this is something I wanted so badly that I preordered; I concluded from the mp4 that they will actually ship in mid feb (which is round 2 more weeks from now) and that was fine. Now, had I known that they wont be able to produce the 2nd batch in next 45 days...
> I do understand the disadvantages of preordering though.


 

 There's 2 shipments in the first batch. MP4Nation only got one shipment. Mid-February is still doable.


----------



## aquacos

i don't know if it was already asked. is it possible to change the battery of the e17 by myself?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





aquacos said:


> i don't know if it was already asked. is it possible to change the battery of the e17 by myself?


 


  anything can be done by yourself...easily? No. is it currently known what is in it and have replacemetns in mind? no. do we have any info on it...intergrated battery or removable.....no


----------



## matics

Some of the early portable USB hard drives and external DVD-ROM drives I bought came with cables that had a separate lead to connect to a second USB port to provide additional power. I think I'll dig one of these cables up and connect the second lead to a portable USB battery. That would be a relatively compact, portable solution for using the E17 with an iPad.
  Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> If you do, you need to make it so that all of the power comes from one of the USB type A connectors with the other USB type A connector supplying just the USB data. In  the picture below, for example, the red connector would supply power and the black one the data. You can't have power on the black one as the E17 will still try to use it - I have two of these 'dual type A to micro USB type B' cables, but neither of them will work connecting the iPad to the E17 since both type A connectors have power connections. Hope that makes sense. And for my work troubleshooting the problem, I get a sample cable to verify that it works.
> 
> 
> EDIT: just to clarify how the cable would work: the red type A connector would plug into a USB battery or external USB power source (i.e. powered hub or USB wall wart), the black type A cable would plug into the CCK adapter which is in turn plugged into the iPad, and the type B micro USB would be plugged into the E17.


----------



## Splungeworthy

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> worker back to factory and_ all the current E17 were made by our engineer and office staff._


 

 This is awesome.  Can you picture Steve Jobs and his "office staff" pushing out the last few Ipods back in the day over a holiday weekend?  We need as many people with issue-free E17's to post in this thread as possible.  It seems as though the ones with problems are getting all of the attention, and whether it's fair or not, given how many of these were sold, it might scare off fence-sitters (not me-second batch can't ship out fast enough!).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





splungeworthy said:


> This is awesome.  Can you picture Steve Jobs and his "office staff" pushing out the last few Ipods back in the day over a holiday weekend?  We need as many people with issue-free E17's to post in this thread as possible.  It seems as though the ones with problems are getting all of the attention, and whether it's fair or not, given how many of these were sold, it might scare off fence-sitters (not me-second batch can't ship out fast enough!).


 
  The only problem i have is the rattle and it has been reported too.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





matics said:


> Some of the early portable USB hard drives and external DVD-ROM drives I bought came with cables that had a separate lead to connect to a second USB port to provide additional power. I think I'll dig one of these cables up and connect the second lead to a portable USB battery. That would be a relatively compact, portable solution for using the E17 with an iPad.


 
   
  Just one clarification (that I mentioned earlier): a lot of the current cables that have dual type A USB connectors still won't work. This is because BOTH type A connectors have power connections. To use the E17 as a USB DAC with an iPad requires that only the USB data lines go from the iPad + CCK to the E17. The power connections should not go to the iPad + CCK (actually you could connect the GND wire in all connectors), but for it to work, no power from the iPad + CCK should flow to the E17 - it needs to be a completely isolated power feed. I've already tried a number of those old dual Type A cables and they do not work for this application.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thankyou agent xxl for doing what im doing. Ferrying lost souls to safety!  i just knew tere was going to be a lot of replies when i sleep due to what we did yesterday  i read theough all the posts ur doing a good job


 

 Not a problem...  Fellow Head-Fiers have helped me greatly over the years, so I'm just trying to return the favor. Alas I too needed some sleep and then there's also work. Oh well...


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The only problem i have is the rattle and it has been reported too.


 

 Agreed - the only 'problem' with my E17 is the rattle, but I don't even consider as a real problem. It's just the way the E17 is built and appears to have no effect on the delicious sound at all.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Agreed - the only 'problem' with my E17 is the rattle, but I don't even consider as a real problem. It's just the way the E17 is built and appears to have no effect on the delicious sound at all.


 


  now that you have more time with it. with your equipment and what not. what would you rate this overal?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> now that you have more time with it. with your equipment and what not. what would you rate this overal?


 

 While it may not quite match my 3 year old Pico, I have been able to achieve very impressive results with the E17 and come very close to the same sonic signature. With it selling at about 1/4 the cost of the Pico DAC/amp and actually besting the feature set (SPDIF input, equalizer/bass boost, more power to drive higher impedance headphones), I will have no problems recommending the E17 to my friends and fellow Head-Fiers! Matched with the E9, I'm even more delighted, and definitely looking forward to the E9 successor.
   
  I am also quite confident that the E17 (and E9) will work well for my upcoming HD800 purchase. I've been wanting a set of the HD800s for quite some time, only recently putting them at the top of my short list. My biggest concern was that I wouldn't be able to drive them sufficiently and would be forced to purchase a higher end amp. Now that I've played with the E17 and E9 for a couple of days, I'm quite pleased with how well they drive my 250 ohm Beyers. I'm hoping it isn't that far of a stretch to think that they will also have no problems with the 300 ohm HD800s.
   
  To sum it up, after a couple of days, the E17 is my new favourite toy. I look forward to the many enjoyable hours of great sound that the E17 will provide. Kudos to Fiio for making a product that is relatively affordable for the masses, and one that doesn't leave you wanting for something else. At least until the next Fiio product comes along....


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> While it may not quite match my 3 year old Pico, I have been able to achieve very impressive results with the E17 and come very close to the same sonic signature. With it selling at about 1/4 the cost of the Pico DAC/amp and actually besting the feature set (SPDIF input, equalizer/bass boost, more power to drive higher impedance headphones), I will have no problems recommending the E17 to my friends and fellow Head-Fiers! Matched with the E9, I'm even more delighted, and definitely looking forward to the E9 successor.
> 
> I am also quite confident that the E17 (and E9) will work well for my upcoming HD800 purchase. I've been wanting a set of the HD800s for quite some time, only recently putting them at the top of my short list. My biggest concern was that I wouldn't be able to drive them sufficiently and would be forced to purchase a higher end amp. Now that I've played with the E17 and E9 for a couple of days, I'm quite pleased with how well they drive my 250 ohm Beyers. I'm hoping it isn't that far of a stretch to think that they will also have no problems with the 300 ohm HD800s.
> 
> To sum it up, after a couple of days, the E17 is my new favourite toy. I look forward to the many enjoyable hours of great sound that the E17 will provide. Kudos to Fiio for making a product that is relatively affordable for the masses, and one that doesn't leave you wanting for something else. At least until the next Fiio product comes along....


 

 i hear lots of HD650 users turning their eye's at the E9 for not delivering the sound they want. What did you think of that? Are you thinking of another amp like a Maveric Tube Magic A1 or something like that? or maybe a Schitt? 
   
   
  oh yeah and me too. factoring the price this is great. however i don't have much to compare it too. but from what i hear...i guess i won't need too. what's also peaking my interest right now is:
  Objective 2 amp
  Maverick Tube Magic D1
  Denon AHD2000


----------



## tim3320070

Got mine used today. Sounds great. I thought there was bass boost (outside of EQ settings) at 3 stages but I don't see that anywhere?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Got mine used today. Sounds great. I thought there was bass boost (outside of EQ settings) at 3 stages but I don't see that anywhere?


 


  there is no bass boost outside of the EQ. are you thinking of how fiio traditionally did it with the E11. i thnk u are mixing up E17 with E11?


----------



## gEaK

Feiao could you just confirm, if I put in a pre-order now, will I receive "middle of february" or will it take 45 days?
   
  I already got an E10 back in December but had to return it due to jack issue, then decided to wait for the E17 rather than get a replacement
   
  I want this product so bad that it feels like I've been waiting forever, another 45 days now would kill me


----------



## Warwick108

all good because i used my CNY money to buy the fiio e17.. lol
  decided to go for the e17 for an extra 50 dollars i can use it for the future when i decide to upgrade to a better headphones
   
  wanted to test drive the dt880 and the q701
  but they only had the dt880 in store =(


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





geak said:


> Feiao could you just confirm, if I put in a pre-order now, will I receive "middle of february" or will it take 45 days?
> 
> I already got an E10 back in December but had to return it due to jack issue, then decided to wait for the E17 rather than get a replacement
> 
> I want this product so bad that it feels like I've been waiting forever, another 45 days now would kill me


 

 MP4nation will receive in mid february. them shipping it to you is another 2 weeks unless you choose the free fed ex option and don't get the free earbuds. i think fiio is giving you the latest date :/ ? or maybe the date has been changed?
   
  Whatever it is, im sure i read these were mostly hand assembled (makes me think germany  ) and........just imagein you are one of those rich people that wait months for their custom assembled cars...this will be ur's  my discussion with the others on it...and how the pico slim has got some comp...sadly will hasten your thirst..but bare with us 
   


  Quote: 





warwick108 said:


> all good because i used my CNY money to buy the fiio e17.. lol
> decided to go for the e17 for an extra 50 dollars i can use it for the future when i decide to upgrade to a better headphones
> 
> wanted to test drive the dt880 and the q701
> but they only had the dt880 in store =(


 
  CNY money!? i kept that for other good things 
   
  Those if i remember are some high impendance cans...i am driving fine with 20-30 volume with 6dB gain


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i hear lots of HD650 users turning their eye's at the E9 for not delivering the sound they want. What did you think of that? Are you thinking of another amp like a Maveric Tube Magic A1 or something like that? or maybe a Schitt?
> 
> 
> oh yeah and me too. factoring the price this is great. however i don't have much to compare it too. but from what i hear...i guess i won't need too. what's also peaking my interest right now is:
> ...


 
   
  I'll be trying the HD650s with my E9 and E17 this weekend, over at a friends place. I'm not necessarily thinking that the E17 will drive them really well by itself, but I suspect well enough that you could take the HD650s portable. I'm more relying on the extra 'oomph' that the E9 provides, and using the DAC in the E17. When I do get my HD800s, it's likely that they will stay home for the most part. I'll only take them on the road when I go for longer trips, and of course the E17, E9 and my Macbook Pro will accompany me. Not a true portable setup, but more a 'transportable' one where they will get used in the home/hotel I'm visiting. I've been saving a while for the HD800s so hopefully I'll come across the right deal soon. 
   
  As for the possibility of buying another amp, I'm sort of a solid-state guy. I've heard many tube amps and I just seem to gravitate towards the solid state sound. I haven't heard the Objective 2 or the Maverick, but my favourite tube amp so far is the Dark Voice 337. If I do go for a 'high end' solid state amp, the Headamp GS-1 is pretty much at the top of my list. I've thoroughly enjoyed my Pico, albeit somewhat put-off by not hearing back from Headamp on the availability of a new battery. Thankfully I was able to find a local source for the battery and replaced it myself. The GS-1 may be over 6 years old in design, but it's still very well respected as a high end solid state amp.
   
  As for the Denon AHD2000s, I've listed to these a number of times and find them very similar to my DT770 Pro. Not enough of a sonic difference to justify buying a pair, but they are a great sounding headphone. If I were to go for a Denon set, it would be a modded D5000 or perhaps the D7000. Regardless, all the Denons are off my list at the moment, with the HD800 at the top, the Beyer T1 at 2nd, and if I could ever justify the cost, the Audeze LCD-3. I heard the LCD-3 at a recent local Head-Fi meet and they were outstanding! But at almost $2k, the price is very restrictive, especially when you really need a decent amp to drive them.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I'll be trying the HD650s with my E9 and E17 this weekend, over at a friends place. I'm not necessarily thinking that the E17 will drive them really well by itself, but I suspect well enough that you could take the HD650s portable. I'm more relying on the extra 'oomph' that the E9 provides, and using the DAC in the E17. When I do get my HD800s, it's likely that they will stay home for the most part. I'll only take them on the road when I go for longer trips, and of course the E17, E9 and my Macbook Pro will accompany me. Not a true portable setup, but more a 'transportable' one where they will get used in the home/hotel I'm visiting. I've been saving a while for the HD800s so hopefully I'll come across the right deal soon.
> 
> As for the possibility of buying another amp, I'm sort of a solid-state guy. I've heard many tube amps and I just seem to gravitate towards the solid state sound. I haven't heard the Objective 2 or the Maverick, but my favourite tube amp so far is the Dark Voice 337. If I do go for a 'high end' solid state amp, the Headamp GS-1 is pretty much at the top of my list. I've thoroughly enjoyed my Pico, albeit somewhat put-off by not hearing back from Headamp on the availability of a new battery. Thankfully I was able to find a local source for the battery and replaced it myself. The GS-1 may be over 6 years old in design, but it's still very well respected as a high end solid state amp.
> 
> As for the Denon AHD2000s, I've listed to these a number of times and find them very similar to my DT770 Pro. Not enough of a sonic difference to justify buying a pair, but they are a great sounding headphone. If I were to go for a Denon set, it would be a modded D5000 or perhaps the D7000. Regardless, all the Denons are off my list at the moment, with the HD800 at the top, the Beyer T1 at 2nd, and if I could ever justify the cost, the Audeze LCD-3. I heard the LCD-3 at a recent local Head-Fi meet and they were outstanding! But at almost $2k, the price is very restrictive, especially when you really need a decent amp to drive them.


 

 wow thanks for the post and yeah. i see most of these thigns as "transportable" setups
   
  those are some very popular amps i always hear about over there. GS-1 only 6 years old? take the fhi 580's. they are still ever popular and are now getting a rehash of popularity..and are over a decade old
   
  i've heard many good things on D2K so im thinking of it as my next set ..or i oculd just get the HD 650


----------



## Warwick108

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> MP4nation will receive in mid february. them shipping it to you is another 2 weeks unless you choose the free fed ex option and don't get the free earbuds. i think fiio is giving you the latest date :/ ? or maybe the date has been changed?
> 
> Whatever it is, im sure i read these were mostly hand assembled (makes me think germany  ) and........just imagein you are one of those rich people that wait months for their custom assembled cars...this will be ur's  my discussion with the others on it...and how the pico slim has got some comp...sadly will hasten your thirst..but bare with us
> 
> ...


 
  yup other good things like uni books that i shouldve bought lol
  aint planning to travel to uni without a decent amp lol
  the dt880 comes in 32, 250 and also 600
  im guessing the 250 would be the most suitable ones as others are planning to run their hd800 which are 300 i believe


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





warwick108 said:


> yup other good things like uni books that i shouldve bought lol
> aint planning to travel to uni without a decent amp lol
> the dt880 comes in 32, 250 and also 600
> im guessing the 250 would be the most suitable ones as others are planning to run their hd800 which are 300 i believe


 


  comparing ohms and what not won't give you accuracy. you can't say the HD800 are just a tad bit harder than a beyer 250 ohm to drive.
   
  I have heard AgentXXL say that for him the E17 just is enough to power his 250 ohm beyer's at 12 gain and 40 volume.


----------



## MickeyVee

I was not all that impressed with the E7/E9 combo.  Drove the HD600's and HD650's to a loud enough level but the sound was thin and unexciting lacking good dynamics.  My end goal is a Schiit Lyr for my HD650's.
  Here are a few comments with the HD650's and FiiO. Source: MacMini, iTunes, Apple Lossless files, No EQ
   
  HD650 & E10

 (Gain @ H) - AC/DC Thunderstruck - drives them to a good level at 4-5 - bass slam not bad at the beginning - the rest seems a little too congested (everything mushes together and hard to distinguish individual instruments and voices) and edgy on the highs for me
 High Masekela 'Stimela' - this is an awesome recording and I've heard it demo'd on some pretty expensive rigs at HiFi shows.. anyway E10 sounds congested, minimal sound stage, unexciting
   
  HD650 & E17

 (Gain @ 6db, volume @57) - Thunderstruck - Definitely more open and airy - bass slam is there with some decent dynamics - big improvement over the E10 - tried gain @ 12 vol @ 43 - lost some of the dynamics and the rest is a wash - prefer pushing the volume at gain 6db
 High Masekela 'Stimela' - definitely more exciting and open.. getting some sound stage and sense of airiness.. sounds nice when horns/guitar/bass are going.. fun and jazzy.. better highs but gets congested and a little harsh when the music becomes complex and peaks out
   
  HD-25 & E17

 (gain 6, vol 31) 'Thunderstruck' - very loud - good bass slam and dynamics (had to turn it down to 23 after the opening) - good separation but not much of a soundstage - great for casual listening but would drive me crazy for extended periods
 Stereo Love ReMix (256aac from iTunes store) - ok, they're practically bouncing off my ears and compressing my brain (vol @ 31) - volume back at 21 - head recovering - this is a fun song and am really enjoying it - seems to be missing some highs (could be the recording) but her voice comes out very sexy and sultry
 Stimela - good dynamics but some congestion as the drums peak at the beginning - Hugh's voice is amazing (but prefer it on the HD650's) - the slow jazzy section is really, really nice and enjoyable - not getting the harshness I heard from the E10 - bass, guitar, drums and horns all easily distinguishable - really enjoying this
   
  HD25 & E10

 Listenable but not as good as the E17.. won't go into detail other than my preference is the E17
   
  from my very limited listening so far..

 E17 is a definite upgrade to the E10
 Neither the E10 or E17 will bring out the potential of the HD650s but if I had to go with one, it would be the E17 - after listening to a few more songs (especially Enigma's Voyageur Club Mix), I'm warming up to it - may not be a bad entry level amp for the HD650's
 E17 + HD25 - a fabulous portable solution - on a limited budget, I find this an awesome combo and is my living room combo with my MacBook Air.. except..
   
  Just for giggles, I plugged in my v-Moda M80's (usually run these unamped out of my iPhone4 or iPod 4G) - I have a love/hate relationship with these and the HD25's - they seem to handle dynamics better than the HD25's and I'm not getting the congestion I heard (Stimela opening) - they're a little more open, airy, dynamic and I think the highs are better. Because of their sensitivity, I did not use/like them with the E10.  With the E17 I have a greater rage of volume control so they may end up replacing my HD25's and my favorite portable.
   
  Here's a picture of the setup. The HD25-1 II's have been modded with an SP headband for comfort and Moon Audio Silver Dragon IEM cable.

  Apologies for the choppy post - I was listening - switching and writing all at the same time. these are just my observations - I do not or never will claim to be a competent reviewer
  Hope this helps.. M
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i hear lots of HD650 users turning their eye's at the E9 for not delivering the sound they want. What did you think of that? Are you thinking of another amp like a Maveric Tube Magic A1 or something like that? or maybe a Schitt?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I was not all that impressed with the E7/E9 combo.  Drove the HD600's and HD650's to a loud enough level but the sound was thin and unexciting lacking good dynamics.  My end goal is a Schiit Lyr for my HD650's.
> Here are a few comments with the HD650's and FiiO. Source: MacMini, iTunes, Apple Lossless files, No EQ
> 
> HD650 & E10
> ...


 

 Thank you for the effort for this  this helped me with how far the E17 will go 
   
  now to help the newbies out. for a device that is $140-$160 with ti's features and what not. would you recommend this? do you highly like it for this price? conclusion rating out of 10?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I was not all that impressed with the E7/E9 combo.  Drove the HD600's and HD650's to a loud enough level but the sound was thin and unexciting lacking good dynamics.  My end goal is a Schiit Lyr for my HD650's.
> Here are a few comments with the HD650's and FiiO. Source: MacMini, iTunes, Apple Lossless files, No EQ
> 
> ....
> ...


 

 Awesome info! I've never owned any other Fiio products, but I have listened to them before. I really haven't played with the HD25s either. I'm on the same page as you when it comes to the E17 and the HD650 - although I'll get my first hand experience on the weekend, I'm pretty sure that the E17 is a really good starter amp for taking the HD650s portable. I'll also be testing with the E9, so the extra power from it will probably have some impact. I suspect the previous comments about the E7 + E9 combo are valid, but the E17 is a pretty decent step forward from the E7. Hopefully using the E17 as a USB DAC and the E9 as the power amplifier, the HD650 (and eventually my HD800 purchase) will be decent. My long term plans will still have me buying a much higher end desktop amp for home listening - as mentioned above, leaning towards the GS-1.


----------



## bowei006

I expereince buzz noises quite often. when the sound is off. from nowhere. it's form amp. i can unplug optical cable and what not and it is still there. any physical thing to the device causes it. i can hear it. move the headphone cord a bit and teh sound will change. i can unplug otpical cable. it will disappear. and then come back 2 seconds later. same effect with others. it's kinda annoying with no music playing. tried on both 6db 12db and 0db gain. same. moving volume up and down raises the buzz sound. but as clieos said that is due to the digital volume raiser and is normal.....hmm


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> comparing ohms and what not won't give you accuracy. you can't say the HD800 are just a tad bit harder than a beyer 250 ohm to drive.
> 
> I have heard AgentXXL say that for him the E17 just is enough to power his 250 ohm beyer's at 12 gain and 40 volume.


 

 I'm certain the HD800 will be harder to drive than my 250 ohm Beyers. Even the HD650 seems harder to drive than my Beyers. And yes, most of my listening on the E17 with the Beyers is at a gain setting of 12dB and an average volume of 40. Actually I think I was running too loud for the first couple of days and now seem to be closer to 30 for volume. One other note - when docked to the E9, the gain on the E17 automatically reverts to 6dB and you can't increase it to 12dB. You can of course lower it to 0dB. That said, 0dB and 6dB gain settings are more than sufficient with the extra power of the E9.
   
  Warwick108 - as for your plan to buy some DT880s, I agree with the decision to go with the 250 ohm set. They really are fun to listen to and the 250 ohm version definitely seems to have a better soundstage than the 80 ohm version. I haven't heard the 600 ohm 880s, but I have heard some DT990s at 600 ohm. Again, another increase in soundstage, but also a different sonic signature than the DT880. I think you'll be well served by going middle of the road with the 250 ohm set - that's what I did with my DT770s.


----------



## bowei006

Ok just tried these out with my SRH440......these things were bass shy with just a slightly over neutral bass before..i take all that back. the E17 has just made these a bassy headphone 
  BASS EQ at 10...wow.. these things with SRH440! amazing! im afraid to try EQ10+ bass with my earbuds! >_<


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm a noob too.. Lived with Grado SR-80i & iBasso D10 for a while and decided I really miss my old Senns.  Purchased the HD600's last February (retail box store, mistake) and was not all that impressed after a couple of weeks. Wanted a fuller sound. Found Head-Fi and read everything I could on the HD650's and finally ordered them on eBay without hearing them. Fell in love. Wanted a portable and settled on the HD25. Love them. Read too much about modding and went down that road for a while. Sold the Grado and iBasso and got the E7, later added the E10.. still weak.. did some more research and settled on the Matrix Mini-i.. awesome DAC but needs a better amp.. sold the E9 and used the E7 in my living room while the wife watched endless hours of Say Yes to the Dress and other girly stuff. Got caught up in the v-Moda M80 thread and ordered.. love 'em! E7 was not so satisfying so ordered the E10 when it was released.. better.. same with the E17.. whew!! time to stop..
   
  So, for the beginner, given my limited experience, the E17 is probably one of the best entry level portable dac/amp that I have heard/researched in this price range. Definitely recommended.  Nothing is perfect but in this price range, I don't know if there is anything better (based on my experience and the daily reading I do) Also, not sure of the synergy with other headphones. I love it with the HD25 & v-Moda M-80 and it's quite acceptable for starting with the HD650. YMMV
   
  After all the research, buying and selling, I'm extremely satisfied that the E17 from a price/performance perspective and is a keeper!  It's not the be all and end all but if someone is setting up a budget entry level system, the E17 should be at the top of their list.  Now I need to finish of my office/mi-fi system and add the Lyr to the Matrix & HD650.  Hope this helps.


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thank you for the effort for this  this helped me with how far the E17 will go
> 
> now to help the newbies out. for a device that is $140-$160 with ti's features and what not. would you recommend this? do you highly like it for this price? conclusion rating out of 10?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I'm a noob too.. Lived with Grado SR-80i & iBasso D10 for a while and decided I really miss my old Senns.  Purchased the HD600's last February (retail box store, mistake) and was not all that impressed after a couple of weeks. Wanted a fuller sound. Found Head-Fi and read everything I could on the HD650's and finally ordered them on eBay without hearing them. Fell in love. Wanted a portable and settled on the HD25. Love them. Read too much about modding and went down that road for a while. Sold the Grado and iBasso and got the E7, later added the E10.. still weak.. did some more research and settled on the Matrix Mini-i.. awesome DAC but needs a better amp.. sold the E9 and used the E7 in my living room while the wife watched endless hours of Say Yes to the Dress and other girly stuff. Got caught up in the v-Moda M80 thread and ordered.. love 'em! E7 was not so satisfying so ordered the E10 when it was released.. better.. same with the E17.. whew!! time to stop..
> 
> So,* for the beginner, given my limited experience, the E17 is probably one of the best entry level portable dac/amp that I have heard/researched in this price range. Definitely recommended.  Nothing is perfect but in this price range, I don't know if there is anything better (based on my experience and the daily reading I do) Also, not sure of the synergy with other headphones. I love it with the HD25 & v-Moda M-80 and it's quite acceptable for starting with the HD650. YMMV*
> 
> *After all the research, buying and selling, I'm extremely satisfied that the E17 from a price/performance perspective and is a keeper!  It's not the be all and end all but if someone is setting up a budget entry level system, the E17 should be at the top of their list.  Now I need to finish of my office/mi-fi system and add the Lyr to the Matrix & HD650.  Hope this helps.*


 


  ok now that's more like it. just to help out the people on the wall. we have many that agree that in this range of $140.....no brainer right for teh features. i looked at the little dot mk2 and object 2 amp..but they are amps..i needed a DAC as well.
   
  tahnk you for your impressions and your journey. your journey with fiio seemed negative from what you are saying. was it? or was it negative...but justifiable with the price fiio wanted(sub $100 for those)


----------



## MickeyVee

Not negative at all. Dropping $100 here and there to experiment was no problem. I was just looking for a particular sound signature.  I have a relatively decent home theatre system with Martin Logan speakers and high end Rotel electronics.  I know the sound signature that works for me.  The journey was kind of fun.  The FiiO E10 and E17 are keepers for their particular use cases. I have my portable system done and just need to finish off my office system.  I really appreciate what I have learned here at Head-Fi and it has pretty much set me in the right direction.. Glad I can give something back.
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> tahnk you for your impressions and your journey. your journey with fiio seemed negative from what you are saying. was it? or was it negative...but justifiable with the price fiio wanted(sub $100 for those)


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Awesome info! I've never owned any other Fiio products, but I have listened to them before. I really haven't played with the HD25s either. I'm on the same page as you when it comes to the E17 and the HD650 - although I'll get my first hand experience on the weekend, I'm pretty sure that the E17 is a really good starter amp for taking the HD650s portable. I'll also be testing with the E9, so the extra power from it will probably have some impact. I suspect the previous comments about the E7 + E9 combo are valid, but the E17 is a pretty decent step forward from the E7. Hopefully using the E17 as a USB DAC and the E9 as the power amplifier, the HD650 (and eventually my HD800 purchase) will be decent. My long term plans will still have me buying a much higher end desktop amp for home listening - as mentioned above, leaning towards the GS-1.


 

 Am definitely looking forward to hearing your impression of the e17 + e9 with the HD650s. I already have the e9 + e17 and may consider the HD650 if the combo can drive them well.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I'm not sure that a burn-in applies with the E17. In my personal experience, solid state devices rarely benefit from a burn-in period. Headphones however have moving diaphragms and voice coils that do change their characteristics with use, if ever so slightly. I did say rarely for solid-state devices as I have been able to perceive subtle changes after owning my Pico for three years. Perhaps it's due to the only moving component, the volume potentiometer, perhaps not. Every other solid state device I've experienced seems to sound much the same as it ever did, but the speakers and other moving components have shown changes over time.
> 
> As for your question about the HD650, I can't say for sure yet. I'm going to be testing my E17 with a friends pair of HD650s on the weekend. They are definitely tough to drive, with their 300 ohm resistive impedance. My 250 ohm Beyers have always been similarly hard to drive, with my friend and I often hearing similar results using our headphones on the same amps, or DAC/amp in the case of the E17. What volume level are you using on your E17? I too am using a gain setting of 12dB but didn't start really hearing the improved soundstage of the E17 until volume level 35 and above. Bass boost also really made my Beyers sing. I'll let you know next Monday after I've tried the HD650s with my E17.


 

 I am using volume 28 to 33 when it is connected to my iPhone 4s. Volume over 33 is too loud for me.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thank you for the effort for this  this helped me with how far the E17 will go
> 
> *now to help the newbies out. for a device that is $140-$160 with ti's features and what not. would you recommend this? do you highly like it for this price? conclusion rating out of 10?*


 

  
_Would I recommend this_:  Yes and No. If you are unsure about just getting an amp, just get the E11 (rock solid). If you must have a DAC and AMP, get the E17.
   
_Do I highly like it for the price?_:  Yes. It sounds too good to pass up. My E11 is the only thing I would choose over it.
   
_My rating out of 10_: A solid *7* due to quality issues. Would be a 10 if not for the static/garbled audio that randomly happens. I heard a little bit today over optical. First time hearing it with that input.
   
  Thanks to you, now I have put an order in for the HFI-580s. If the bass rocks like you say, then they may be a keeper.
   
  ...time for bed.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> _Would I recommend this_:  Yes and No. If you are unsure about just getting an amp, just get the E11 (rock solid). If you must have a DAC and AMP, get the E17.
> 
> _Do I highly like it for the price?_:  Yes. It sounds too good to pass up. My E11 is the only thing I would choose over it.
> 
> ...


 


   
  I feel the same. Quality is a problem. I dont know whwrre the buzz comes from
   
  U have the athm50s which r very similar. I think the bass might react the same way :/ they r $118 if u want them but be warned this wasnt a buying thread so its not like i know if it will fit u. I and others have reviews on them
  Eq bass set to 10 brings out bass in any headphone o belive


----------



## higgsbison

Has anyone compared this to the Audinst HUD MX1?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





higgsbison said:


> Has anyone compared this to the Audinst HUD MX1?


 


   
  I pm a contributor that had the mx1 and e10 a month ago. He said mike was a bit biased in the review of themdue to the e10 being half the price. I say that its due to that reason and the reason mike gave, because he liked the sound of it a bit better to him. It really depends on what u like. Warm mids? Tight bass?


----------



## underhysteria

If i were to connect this to an ipod/walkman via the LOD, do i control the volume via the E17 or the portable player? And should i max out the volume on the player before lining out?


----------



## putente

*MickeyVee*, now that you've compared both the E10 and the E17, and even if the E17 is better, do you think it's worth the upgrade from the E10 (for use only as a desktop dac+amp combo)? For me, I assume it will be at least $100 upgrade cost...


----------



## Etrips

*bowei006*,
   
  How bad is the buzzing? Also it is only when there is no music playing correct?


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> MP4nation will receive in mid february. them shipping it to you is another 2 weeks unless you choose the free fed ex option and don't get the free earbuds. i think fiio is giving you the latest date :/ ? or maybe the date has been changed?


 

 I'm in the UK so I was waiting on advancedmp3players.co.uk
   
  The product page said pre-order expected 2nd February, but this has now changed to "awaiting stock arrival update"
   
  Feiao has said the second batch will now take 45 days, but the first batch had 2 shipments.
   
  I'm hoping that some of the first batch 2nd shipment will be going to advancedmp3players, but I need to know for sure and on what date.
   
  Then I will pre-order from whichever shop will get the product to me the fastest.


----------



## bala

The E17 is available on Amazon.de (for EU customers), though is expensive compared to mp4nation!


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





bala said:


> The E17 is available on Amazon.de (for EU customers), though is expensive compared to mp4nation!


 


 Yep over £30 more expensive, are there any other UK/EU retailers I might have missed?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> If i were to connect this to an ipod/walkman via the LOD, do i control the volume via the E17 or the portable player? And should i max out the volume on the player before lining out?


 


   
  U would control volume on e17 or whatever external amp u r using


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





etrips said:


> *bowei006*,
> 
> How bad is the buzzing? Also it is only when there is no music playing correct?


 

 Not very bad really. I have yet to test with AUX and USb on if this happens but it sounded like it was the amp as the problem contiumed to occur when i unplugged the toslink optocal cable


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I feel the same. Quality is a problem. I dont know whwrre the buzz comes from
> 
> U have the athm50s which r very similar. I think the bass might react the same way :/ they r $118 if u want them but be warned this wasnt a buying thread so its not like i know if it will fit u. I and others have reviews on them
> Eq bass set to 10 brings out bass in any headphone o belive


 


  Bah.. no need to be warned. Prior to me joining this forum I had always bought headphones, just not really nice ones. Now the floodgates are opening.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Bah.. no need to be warned. Prior to me joining this forum I had always bought headphones, just not really nice ones. Now the floodgates are opening.


 


  im just worried since u already have ATH M50's which are said to be very similar. heck the M50 and HFI 580 are the one's duking it out on forums right now. the HFI 580's almost always win nowadays...but still. Whatever you purchase is up to you man.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I feel the same. Quality is a problem. I dont know whwrre the buzz comes from
> 
> U have the athm50s which r very similar. I think the bass might react the same way :/ they r $118 if u want them but be warned this wasnt a buying thread so its not like i know if it will fit u. I and others have reviews on them
> *Eq bass set to 10 brings out bass in any headphone o belive *


 

 Agreed, especially that last bolded comment. My DT770 250 ohm cans almost massage my head with the bass set that high, but it's still clear and distinct, not muddy or jumbled.


----------



## duyu

Got my E17 today!!
   
  And I am extremely shocked that my E17 cannot dock on my E9....
  I bought my E9 few months ago, and I now realized that Amazon had sent me an E9i....but the box and every label shows its E9...
  (Luckily...it was Amazon. I will get my E9 tomorrow! I will definitely report the performance of E9+E17+HD600)
   
   
  Could sb teach me how to turn on 24bit?


----------



## Sysagent

Any stockists in the UK yet people?

 Ta

 Sys


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Got my E17 today!!
> 
> And I am extremely shocked that my E17 cannot dock on my E9....
> I bought my E9 few months ago, and I now realized that Amazon had sent me an E9i....but the box and every label shows its E9...
> ...


 


   
  U cant do 24bit portably (usually, audiophiles with fancy stuff and mnow how could do work around but for our purposes, no) when plugged into ur computer (windows pc) through usb or spdif/". In playback devices after e17 or spdif is selected and u hear audio playing but e17 still says 16bit. In that playback sevices menu click on the e17 or spdif and right click and properties. Scroll through the menus and once u see 44.1 khz or 48khz or something like that. There should be a drop down menu. Drop down and select what u want. If ur computer spdif does 24/192 set it to that. If not 24/96 is probably highest u can get. In mac it is in midi setup menu if i remember. I dont remeber full correct name. Google it if u cant find it by searching finder. When u r in just change outputs dropdown menu to 24bit by 96KHz. Mac osx is set to that as the highest supported by OS


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> U cant do 24bit portably (usually, audiophiles with fancy stuff and mnow how could do work around but for our purposes, no) when plugged into ur computer (windows pc) through usb or spdif/". In playback devices after e17 or spdif is selected and u hear audio playing but e17 still says 16bit. In that playback sevices menu click on the e17 or spdif and right click and properties. Scroll through the menus and once u see 44.1 khz or 48khz or something like that. There should be a drop down menu. Drop down and select what u want. If ur computer spdif does 24/192 set it to that. If not 24/96 is probably highest u can get


 

 Thanks!


 Did anyone try charging E17 with other usb charger (like those mobile phone charger)? Is it safe?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Did anyone try charging E17 with other usb charger (like those mobile phone charger)? Is it safe?


 

 I dont know about safe but i have charged my e17 and e5 with ipod/iphone usb charger before. I just swapped the cables


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Did anyone try charging E17 with other usb charger (like those mobile phone charger)? Is it safe?


 


  Any USB charger will be safe to charge E17 or any of our products that support USB charge.
   
  Something you need to take care is
   
  1, Make sure the charger is safe, there are some very poor quality USB charger in the market, and unfortunately it is made in China.
   
  2, A high current output will be help to shorter the charge time. 
   
  3, Usually the USB charger came with some smartphone with high quality and can be trusted, and the best is the original charger from Apple. of course, it is expensive than other, so 
   
     a Nokia or Moto charger will be good options too!


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Any USB charger will be safe to charge E17 or any of our products that support USB charge.
> 
> Something you need to take care is
> 
> ...


 


  Great! Thanks!


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





geak said:


> Yep over £30 more expensive, are there any other UK/EU retailers I might have missed?


 


  Hope you can understand that our Europe sales agents have to pay higher VAT and Customs Fee. I will not suggest you buy from other region because local dealer can provide better service, 
   
  especially when you need to get replacement or have any trouble.


----------



## JamesFiiO

The replies increase so rapid so sometimes it is hard to catch up the speed , LOL, but thanks everyone here who help us reply to other friends. it look like a big family and I love Head-Fi.


----------



## tme110

Im not sure exactly what you are saying in your post.  First, line out is just that - a line-level out put.  That means there is no volume control so where your volume is set is irrelevant.  The LOD for the E17 is a line out to connect to another amp not a ipod but a LOD from the ipod would be used to connect to the E17.  so the only volume that would matter is the e17,
  
  Quote: 





underhysteria said:


> If i were to connect this to an ipod/walkman via the LOD, do i control the volume via the E17 or the portable player? And should i max out the volume on the player before lining out?


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Quote: 





> Main Stock Updated
> 
> Thank you for your order from Advanced MP3 Players. The product you have ordered is temporarily out of stock. We are currently awaiting a stock delivery of the FiiO E17 Portable Headphone Amplifier with USB Digital Audio Convertor (DAC) from our supplier.
> STOCK UPDATE: We are expecting stock to arrive on 16/03/2012.
> If you wish to cancel or change your order, please reply to this email; otherwise, your order will be despatched as a priority when stock arrives. You will be kept regularly updated via email regarding the status of your order. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.


 
   
  Aaaaaagghh!
  Think I'll stick with my E6 for now


----------



## tme110

the e9 can easily power the 650
  
  Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Am definitely looking forward to hearing your impression of the e17 + e9 with the HD650s. I already have the e9 + e17 and may consider the HD650 if the combo can drive them well.


----------



## tme110

Note, you first thing you need is 24 bit files.
  
  Quote: 





duyu said:


> Could sb teach me how to turn on 24bit?


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> U cant do 24bit portably (usually, audiophiles with fancy stuff and mnow how could do work around but for our purposes, no) when plugged into ur computer (windows pc) through usb or spdif/". In playback devices after e17 or spdif is selected and u hear audio playing but e17 still says 16bit. In that playback sevices menu click on the e17 or spdif and right click and properties. Scroll through the menus and once u see 44.1 khz or 48khz or something like that. There should be a drop down menu. Drop down and select what u want. If ur computer spdif does 24/192 set it to that. If not 24/96 is probably highest u can get. In mac it is in midi setup menu if i remember. I dont remeber full correct name. Google it if u cant find it by searching finder. When u r in just change outputs dropdown menu to 24bit by 96KHz. Mac osx is set to that as the highest supported by OS


 


  Thank bowei,
   
  I originally thought it is related to the setting in E17.
   
  In my case, using win XP, foobar2000.
  We can set 24 bit output in foobar2000->Library->configure->playback->output
  +
  SACD-> DSD&&176400&Direct
  (you have to install SACD plugin, and have the SACD file)
   
  successfully output 96k/24bit through USB, will compare the difference between 16bit later.
   
   
  Listening E17 now with HD600 (without E9, because my E9 was unexpectedly E9i lol)
  For vocal, I feel the sound signature is (much) colder than my original miniplayer+E9 setting/ or even direct playback from the notebook.


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

I dont think anyone has tried this yet, but I was sitting at work with my XBOX360 S and didnt want to bother others, so I connected my FiiO E17 to the Optical connection and then ran my Westone ES5s to the E17 and it worked like a charm.  That extra Optical cable provided when I purchased from the Micca Store worked excellent.  Its amazing how much this little device can do with such great sound quality and ease of use to the end user.
   
  Other Note: I am not sure what your all talking with regards to the buzzing.  My E17 has been whisper quiet when songs are not playing and I have used many different headphones with the FiiO E17.
   
  FiveThreeEcho


----------



## aquacos

i have my second unit now for a few days. the first goes back because of the buzzing problem i had described here. the new unit has the same problem. it is a silent but constant electric buzzing you can hear, if no music is playing and the volume is under 30. at volume 40 it decreases significant and i think it comes from the amp section of the e17. it increases shortly a little bit if you push the input button of the e17. if you do this there is shortly additional static crackling. i definitely hear it with my shure se535. it is hard to hear with my beyerdynamic t70p unless it is really silent but it is also there. it is not a big deal but i would not recommend the e17 for high-quality iem. may be fiio can address this problem with a new firmware but i suppose it is in the hardware.
   
  beyond this the e17 really ads soundquality to the output of my macbook pro and i would use the e17 mainly with my t70p (on the mbp, iphone and ipod nano). it is really a nice piece of technique and very affordable.


----------



## lshalamb

weird thing is I am not receiving any changes from mp4nation. meaning they still expect the prev. date? (middle of february)


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> weird thing is I am not receiving any changes from mp4nation. meaning they still expect the prev. date? (middle of february)


 

 Yes. There are two shipments in the first batch. What designates a "batch" in mp4nation's eyes and in FiiO's eyes is different.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> the e9 can easily power the 650


 

 But can it bring it it's true potential..as in will it sound the way it should or will it just give it enough power for volume?


----------



## MickeyVee

Based on the headphones you have in your signature, I believe it's a worthy upgrade. YMMV.  I'm keeping both for different uses.  The E17 will drive my portables and sometimes the HD650's and the E10 will be relegated to the basement as a dac/line out to powered speakers.
   
  BTW.. to all.. this is my 4th FiiO product and they have all been perfect except the E10 and iPhone remote cable connection.  It's fixed with the E17.
  
  Quote: 





putente said:


> *MickeyVee*, now that you've compared both the E10 and the E17, and even if the E17 is better, do you think it's worth the upgrade from the E10 (for use only as a desktop dac+amp combo)? For me, I assume it will be at least $100 upgrade cost...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Thank bowei,
> 
> I originally thought it is related to the setting in E17.
> 
> ...


 

 haha your welcome but as a nother user posted. it just displays 24 bit and 96KHz as that is what your computer is set too. it will down sample everything if it's not that.
   
  it might be colder bc A:you have high impendance headphones B:your notebook and other consumer itmes have "colored" sound i guess. try some EQ
   


  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The replies increase so rapid so sometimes it is hard to catch up the speed , LOL, but thanks everyone here who help us reply to other friends. *it look like a big family and I love Head-Fi.*


 

 We are friendly  hopefully we can get bigger in the world
   


  Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> I dont think anyone has tried this yet, but I was sitting at work with my XBOX360 S and didnt want to bother others, so I connected my FiiO E17 to the Optical connection and then ran my Westone ES5s to the E17 and it worked like a charm.  That extra Optical cable provided when I purchased from the Micca Store worked excellent.  Its amazing how much this little device can do with such great sound quality and ease of use to the end user.
> 
> Other Note: I am not sure what your all talking with regards to the buzzing.  My E17 has been whisper quiet when songs are not playing and I have used many different headphones with the FiiO E17.
> 
> FiveThreeEcho


 
  haha yeah. how does it sound with the xbox? 
   
  mine has buzz..


----------



## tim3320070

This is a very impressive little unit. While it's not ideal with my DT700/600, it's 90% fine driving them (deep bass struggles some). My D7000 sound very nice. I wil use this with my X10 IEM primarily and these sound great too. I have my Master-5/Ref-8 combo here and I am A/Bing the same song between it and the the E17 with my laptop. Surprisingly close. The Master-5/Ref-8 has it beat across the board for clarity, blacker background, bass definition, etc. but it's really a lot closer than I want to admit. I can tell this has been tuned for a little fuller sound which is great by me.
   
  Maybe the guys that scream spec's (after a certain point) are all that matter aren't so crazy


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> This is a very impressive little unit. While it's not ideal with my DT700/600, it's 90% fine driving them (deep bass struggles some). My D7000 sound very nice. I wil use this with my X10 IEM primarily and these sound great too. I have my Master-5/Ref-8 combo here and I am A/Bing the same song between it and the the E17 with my laptop. Surprisingly close. The Master-5/Ref-8 has it beat across the board for clarity, blacker background, bass definition, etc. but it's really a lot closer than I want to admit. I can tell this has been tuned for a little fuller sound which is great by me.
> 
> Maybe the guys that scream spec's (after a certain point) are all that matter aren't so crazy


 
  you mean teh Wolfson WM8740, the USB and Tenor receivers...the 24/192 KHz smapling through S/PDIF...the digital balance volume....like that? and how others have said that pico slim at $500 better watch out.... you mean that? lol


----------



## tim3320070

No, more like THD, freq. response, etc.
  I'd still rather strap a portable NFB12 to a laptop if that were possible. If only Kingwa would produce a portable DAC/amp, I can't seem to talk him into it.


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Hope you can understand that our Europe sales agents have to pay higher VAT and Customs Fee. I will not suggest you buy from other region because local dealer can provide better service,
> 
> especially when you need to get replacement or have any trouble.


 

 Sure but advancedmp3players.co.uk have it for £99, mp4nation works out at £89, so not sure why amazon.de is £130
   
  Can't believe advancedmp3players are saying 16.03.12 for stock now, that's ridiculous
   
  Feiao when will other UK/EU retailers be receiving stock?
   
  I think I'm just going to take the risk and pre-order from mp4nation, it's cheapest of all the retailers and by the looks of things now it will still get here fastest.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> No, more like THD, freq. response, etc.
> I'd still rather strap a portable NFB12 to a laptop if that were possible. If only Kingwa would produce a portable DAC/amp, I can't seem to talk him into it.


 
  but he won't...and so. you have the E17 
  
   


  Quote: 





geak said:


> Sure but advancedmp3players.co.uk have it for £99, mp4nation works out at £89, so not sure why amazon.de is £130
> 
> Can't believe advancedmp3players are saying 16.03.12 for stock now, that's ridiculous
> 
> ...


 


  i don't see why not? mp4nation will receive mid february....they are in china as well. micca and most other places should receive late february to early march. time frame is close :/
   
  MP4nation is safe and cheap. no problems. the only problem with them isn't actually them...but the proximity of most people to them makes any errors in the product and what not and need of RMA or support...and the language barrier makes it very hard.


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> but he won't...and so. you have the E17
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I like MP4nation too... it sometimes takes longer, but it delivers.


----------



## intendedUser

So. If I want to output sound to devices other than headphones, what's the output setting on the E17 that will give me the cleanest sound? In other words, whats the closest thing to using an L7 without actually using a L7? I know its probably with gain at 0. What about the volume? Also, is it safe for the E17 to be outputting from its headphone out to devices other than headphones? Perhaps to a mixer?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> So. If I want to output sound to devices other than headphones, what's the output setting on the E17 that will give me the cleanest sound? In other words, whats the closest thing to using an L7 without actually using a L7? I know its probably with gain at 0. What about the volume? Also, is it safe for the E17 to be outputting from its headphone out to devices other than headphones? Perhaps to a mixer?


 


  i don't see why not. gainn 0 would of course. but since the E17 doesn't have any hiss usually even at gain 12 for sensitive IEM's below a certain range. doubt it matters.to make the E17 as close to the L7 design as possible without it and using another amp so like this
  E17-->Another amp-->bookshelves/etc
   
  would be..like u said. no gain, low volume(?). no EQ enabled
   
  i have yet to test or don't know very much about bookshelves and dual amping. but.. my theory is..that the amp in the first place is just boosting the abysmal signal from teh DAC. and thus a low volume from E17 into another amp would be like it. but then there's the theory that since it's low....the amp might just be amping all the qualities of that low volume...or something...ehh we need more users for this part. answer plz. which theory or another is correct?


----------



## intendedUser

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i have yet to test or don't know very much about bookshelves and dual amping. but.. my theory is..that the amp in the first place is just boosting the abysmal signal from teh DAC. and thus a low volume from E17 into another amp would be like it. but then there's the theory that since it's low....the amp might just be amping all the qualities of that low volume...or something...ehh we need more users for this part. answer plz. which theory or another is correct?


 

 Oh great gods of head-fi! We beseech thee!
  Come help us in this time of doubt and uncertainty!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





intendeduser said:


> Oh great gods of head-fi! We beseech thee!
> Come help us in this time of doubt and uncertainty!


 

 that was a LOL comment man and yes...we need some


----------



## TheChosen0ne

When is this gonna be on amazon again?


----------



## ClieOS

intendeduser said:


> So. If I want to output sound to devices other than headphones, what's the output setting on the E17 that will give me the cleanest sound? In other words, whats the closest thing to using an L7 without actually using a L7? I know its probably with gain at 0. What about the volume? Also, is it safe for the E17 to be outputting from its headphone out to devices other than headphones? Perhaps to a mixer?




Set it at 0dB gain, max out the volume and you'll be fine. If you can't get enough volume, try 6dB gain but try not to max out on volume (* as low as you need).


----------



## musicinmymind

Asgard:
   
  32Ω: 1.56 W
  50Ω: 1 W
  100Ω: 500 mW
  120Ω: 833 mW
  300Ω: 167 mW
  600Ω: 83 mW
   
  Asgard and D2000/D5000
   
  From what I've *heard*, it takes some of the "life" out of D2000/D5000
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/350721/denon-d2000-d5000-md2000-md5000-appreciation-thread/1710
   
  same with E17?


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> When is this gonna be on amazon again?


----------



## JamesFiiO

To everyone, the new batch of E17 will be available after 2 months, and will marked with ALPEN, that is the most noticeable different with first batch. also we have not find any big bug which need to be fixed so you don't need to worry about any 
   
  different in SQ and features.


----------



## okan

I recieved my fiio e17 yesterday and I love it. Soundstage and clearity is very well. I tried it with macos and windows 7. Both spdif (optical) and usb work well with macos and windows 7.


----------



## RodSmith

Hi, I've been waiting for the last two weeks for advancedmp3players 02/02 preorder only to receive an email informing me that the preorder is now for the 16th March!!!
   
  Anyway, anyone have any recommendations for something other than the E17?


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> To everyone, the new batch of E17 will be available *after 2 months*, and will marked with ALPEN, that is the most noticeable different with first batch. also we have not find any big bug which need to be fixed so you don't need to worry about any
> 
> different in SQ and features.


 

 Whaaat??
   
  Right I'm pre-ordering from mp4nation, my main worry was the postage costs for sending a faulty unit back (me being from UK) and even though feiao recommended against ordering outside my region there is no way I'm waiting over 2 months (plus it's the cheapest option.)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Set it at 0dB gain, max out the volume and you'll be fine. If you can't get enough volume, try 6dB gain but try not to max out on volume (* as low as you need).


 


   
  Can u make this clearer clueos? You said both of my two theories just then no gain and low volume. And no gain and a bit of volume. Did u mean max out the bolume of e17 in first sentence? Why? My first theory is that since amps take that miniscule signal from dac any small volume from e17 will work but my second is tht if jts too low out of the first amp in a dual amp setup u will not have enough quality or full sound come through and so is just amping that small part of music


----------



## ClieOS

bowei006 said:


> Can u make this clearer clueos? You said both of my two theories just then no gain and low volume. And no gain and a bit of volume. Did u mean max out the bolume of e17 in first sentence? Why? My first theory is that since amps take that miniscule signal from dac any small volume from e17 will work but my second is tht if jts too low out of the first amp in a dual amp setup u will not have enough quality or full sound come through and so is just amping that small part of music




First, DAC always send signal to amp by line level, even internally. So it is never 'miniscule'

Second, gain stage is usually where most noise is introduced (assuming the rest of the system is designed properly). More gain tends to introduce more noise. That is why I recommend going for the lowest gain setting possible, At 0dB gain, setting the volume to max means it is closest to the original signal (line level signal direct from DAC) volume wise. You want to have the highest volume because it avoids low SNR in a double amping situation. When you double amp, you always want the first amp to have higher volume to have the best possible SNR.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> First, DAC always send signal to amp by line level, even internally. So it is never 'miniscule'
> Second, gain stage is usually where most noise is introduced (assuming the rest of the system is designed properly). More gain tends to introduce more noise. That is why I recommend going for the lowest gain setting possible, At 0dB gain, setting the volume to max means it is closest to the original signal (line level signal direct from DAC) volume wise. You want to have the highest volume because it avoids low SNR in a double amping situation. When you double amp, you always want the first amp to have higher volume to have the best possible SNR.


 


   
  Thank u  a few people and myself neede to know this.


----------



## duyu

My E9 has arrived.
   
  I have done a quick comparison between these two settings using my HD600:
   
  1) E17 (bypass) docking on E9
  2) Using the fiio L2(3.5mm cable) to connect E17 (non-bypass) & E9
   
  For 2, as I was told that E9 has the best performance when the volume is between 9-12o'clock, so I fix the position of E9, and adjust the volume by E17.
   
  The result is that,
  Setting 2 lost too much clarity, and I see the vocal is a little bit warmer and richer, but it is completely not worth.
   
  I don't know this is due to double amp-ing or other reason.
   
   
  So, I quickly try the third setting:
  3) E17 (non-bypass) docking on E9
   
  The clarity loss is less severe, but there is still a noticeable loss of clarity.
   
   
  Btw, I listened to E17 without E9 before. And I now can conclude that E17 does not have a sufficient power for HD600, I've said that the signature is (too) cold, and I think bowei has rightly pointed that it probably shows that E17 has not enough power for HD600.
   
  Hope this is helpful.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

How are the E17 and E9 combined with the HD600?  I recieved my HD600s this morning as well as my E9 and this is my first audiophile type headphone and my previous headphones were Klipsch Image One only, no amp or nothing.  I hooked up a stereo audio jack thingy from my computer which has a on board sound to E9 then plugged in the headphones in there.  I didn't really hear any difference between my old headphone and the HD600.  When I combine the E17 with E9 will it improve sound quality by a lot?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> How are the E17 and E9 combined with the HD600?  I recieved my HD600s this morning as well as my E9 and this is my first audiophile type headphone and my previous headphones were Klipsch Image One only, no amp or nothing.  I hooked up a stereo audio jack thingy from my computer which has a on board sound to E9 then plugged in the headphones in there.  I didn't really hear any difference between my old headphone and the HD600.  When I combine the E17 with E9 will it improve sound quality by a lot?


 

  
   
  read teh post above you first.(
   
  basically the problems' i am seeing right now is people that aren't really in the audiophile realm yet. the bolded sentence. i was like that at first too. give it one more week of HD600 with E17 and E9. and then...take them off. and start using your old headphones with ipod.
   


  Quote: 





duyu said:


> Btw, I listened to E17 without E9 before. And I now can conclude that E17 does not have a sufficient power for HD600, I've said that the signature is (too) cold, and I think bowei has rightly pointed that it probably shows that E17 has not enough power for HD600.
> 
> Hope this is helpful.


 

 i said that it might not have enough for the HD650 for another user. and while i guess i did point it out, i ddin't have any experience and was just making an educated guess based off of what i know. i think pointing out is giving me too much credit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  anyway. from what i am seeing . Sennheiser HD600+(650,700,800) users'......don't really like the fiio sound/ isn't really synergized with the fiio combo's or products.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> How are the E17 and E9 combined with the HD600?  I recieved my HD600s this morning as well as my E9 and this is my first audiophile type headphone and my previous headphones were Klipsch Image One only, no amp or nothing.  I hooked up a stereo audio jack thingy from my computer which has a on board sound to E9 then plugged in the headphones in there.  I didn't really hear any difference between my old headphone and the HD600.  When I combine the E17 with E9 will it improve sound quality by a lot?


 
   
  I could not make a reasonable general comment of E17+E9+HD600 without a comparison.
  
  I was using a mp3(miniplayer)+E9 rather than E17+E9 before, so, I think I can tell you some difference for this upgrade. 
  Once you use E17+E9, you can find there is much much more clarity or detail than before. I just don't notice that there some musical instruments in the background of a music, or at least using a mp3, these details are not good enough to attract your notice. 
   
   
  One more point to add, when you find an "upgrade" has no significance, that means it is time for you to upgrade another part to the whole system. In your case, it is the source, from DAC, music files, the quality of recording of your music etc...


----------



## bowei006

Question, i hear some problems of hD600 and HD650 with the E17 and or E9 and i keep hearing coldness and lack of this and that. but give me some pro's over regular stuff and a price to performance ratio with the HD 600+ series!


----------



## lshalamb

has anyone who owns E17 + HD600s/650s tried to use EQ on e17? there's some tweaking that could be done i think? why dramatize


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> has anyone who owns E17 + HD600s/650s tried to use EQ on e17? there's some tweaking that could be done i think? why dramatize


 


  do you have HD600/650's??? just asking if you tried it. might just be your avatar that made me think that


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Question, i hear some problems of hD600 and HD650 with the E17 and or E9 and i keep hearing coldness and lack of this and that. but give me some pro's over regular stuff and a price to performance ratio with the HD 600+ series!


 

  
  I agree there is still a kind of coldness....but clarity seems somehow contradict with warmth...I find it is colder than using my mp3, but it gives me far too much clarity and improvement in soundstage...
   
   
  *One point to add, all my devices have not yet burnt in.


----------



## eclein

Who cares folks....lets get onto some other aspect of the E17 that shines, doesn't shine, etc....is anybody out there finding any major problems with the E17???
   
   These units are all around excellent little pieces of kit aren't they???
   
   I'm 54 and found someone last night selling a new E17 and I jumped and its on its way....I'm like a little kid on Christmas!!!!
   
   I also bought a Cowon D3 to try out with one of these and I know a bunch of things can be tweaked in the D3 to shape the sound but I'll try to keep things as flat as possible.
   I spent a lot of time in studios when I was younger and its like autopilot for me to seek flatest settings....LOL.....the sound quality is good?? Excellent? Fair? Whats the genral consensus?????


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> I agree there is still a kind of coldness....but clarity seems somehow contradict with warmth...I find it is colder than using my mp3, but it gives me far too much clarity and improvement in soundstage...


 
  so is it for you, worth it? please note that there are many that are reading this thread and aren't posting that have the headphones you have. i don't really need to know this answer, as much as it will help whoever is reading it. there are many people i have been linking this thread to to help them out on what hte E17 is and how it will work with their prespective headphones. head fi is kinda falling apart in terms of help recently. i notice nobody happens by the portable amps section of the forums and actually tries to do anything, so i've been trying. anyway. first sentece  will you please be so kind to lay out pro's and con's and then a conclusional score based on everything inlcuding price to performance. it doesn't have to be long. heck 3 sentences could answer this.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> so is it for you, worth it? please note that there are many that are reading this thread and aren't posting that have the headphones you have. i don't really need to know this answer, as much as it will help whoever is reading it. there are many people i have been linking this thread to to help them out on what hte E17 is and how it will work with their prespective headphones. head fi is kinda falling apart in terms of help recently. i notice nobody happens by the portable amps section of the forums and actually tries to do anything, so i've been trying. anyway. first sentece  will you please be so kind to lay out pro's and con's and then a conclusional score based on everything inlcuding price to performance. it doesn't have to be long. heck 3 sentences could answer this.


 


  Sure. My reference point is Meizu M6SL minplayer (I guess it is almost unanimous that people who wanted to buy E17 do not have any DAC before, just like me.)
   
  Setting: E17(bypass)+E9+HD600,  
  Software: Foobar2000, files: flac, SACD iso.
  Music Types: New age, classical, Jazz, pop..
  The E9 is new also.
  HD600 has yet to burn in.
   
  Con's:
  Coldness, it's not a big problem if you like classical, new age music. But it could be a problem, if you really like to listen to voices which are very warm, rich, sentimental.
  I still need time to figure out whether this is neutral or too cold. It takes time for the devices to burn in.
  (it is somehow like...Etyomotic earphone vs Shure earphone...hope you get what I mean) 
   
  Pro's
  Clarity. I had a  feeling of cleanness the first time I listen to this set up. Personally, if there is no improvement on clarity, I won't call this an upgrade.
   
  Soundstage. Somehow I can't recognize it is the sound in the music or it is the sound from outside! This is both the pro and con for HD600...
   
  ----------
  Price: I bought at 127 with a free earphone from mp4nation. I have no chance to compare this device with other DAC within the same price range. So, I make no comment on this. But 127 is an affordable, and necessary update for someone like me, who owns a HD600. Using HD600 with a mp3 is a waste.
  Hope this is helpful.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Price: I bought at 127 with a free earphone from mp4nation. I have no chance to compare this device with other DAC within the same price range. So, I make no comment on this. But 127 is an affordable, and necessary update for someone like me, who owns a HD600. Using HD600 with a mp3 is a waste.
> *Hope this is helpful. *


 

 thank you very much duyu  how are you feeling about them personally? like them  i love the bass boost on mine 
  many people have your headphones and if you take a look to the right now. there is almost always by my count 20 people reading this thread


----------



## lshalamb

I do own HD600s, as my avatar suggests, yea, but my E17 is  yet to arrive in mid-feb (or at least mp4nation says so). I was advised of another portable dac/amp that another user found very comfortable to go with his HD600s, but for the purpose of this thread I'm not disclosing it.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> thank you very much duyu  how are you feeling about them personally? like them  i love the bass boost on mine
> many people have your headphones and if you take a look to the right now. there is almost always by my count 20 people reading this thread


 


  o..yes..I've totally forgotten to mention bass. 
   
  The improvement  on bass is also significant, you can feel the bass, say the sound of drums, much more concrete and dynamic. 
   
  Because of the music I listen, bass is not that important. I am much more appreciate the improvement on clarity. I can definitely listen much more detail than before. The treble is very important for me, but the improvement is less significant. Still, my devices have not yet burnt in.
   
  I really want to try the treble setting on E17, but double amp-ing kills the clarity.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> o..yes..I totally forget to mention bass.
> 
> The improvement  on bass is also significant, you can feel the bass, say the sound of drums, much more concrete and dynamic.


 


  how are they on your etymotic IEM's? hiss? improvemtns in bass? how significant is the improvemtn of the E17 on etymotic? how is it with just using amp? how is it with both DAC and amp?
  im looking at IEM's soon and just wondering, i heard ety's aren't really bassy :/ my PL11 earbuds im about to write a review on respond very well to the E17's


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> how are they on your etymotic IEM's? hiss? improvemtns in bass? how significant is the improvemtn of the E17 on etymotic? how is it with just using amp? how is it with both DAC and amp?
> im looking at IEM's soon and just wondering, i heard ety's aren't really bassy :/ my PL11 earbuds im about to write a review on respond very well to the E17's


 

 On my Etymotic ER6, there is really no significant improvement adding E17 (as least not as significant as HD600, you can feel HD600 is limited by the DAC, but E17 is limited by my ER6 in this case) . ER6 is handicapped on bass, you could even say it has no bass at all.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> On my Etymotic ER6, there is really no significant improvement adding E17 (as least not as significant as HD600, you can feel HD600 is limited by the DAC, but E17 is limited by my ER6 in this case) . ER6 is handicapped on bass, you could even say it has no bass at all.


 


  when you say HD600 is limited by DAC. i hope you mean it's limited by the E17. the WM8740 Wolfson Microelectronics DAC used in the E17...is used in models upwards to $500


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> when you say HD600 is limited by DAC. i hope you mean it's limited by the E17. the WM8740 Wolfson Microelectronics DAC used in the E17...is used in models upwards to $500


 


  Sorry, I mean DAC of miniplayer


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Sorry, I mean DAC of miniplayer


 


  Thank you for elaborating. i know that this is a little cold to you, will you be returning the E17. it doesn't sound like you are too pleased with it..just ok 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with it and not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 like the rest of us..since our equipment pairs better.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thank you for elaborating. i know that this is a little cold to you, will you be returning the E17. it doesn't sound like you are too pleased with it..just ok
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha, actually I am quite satisfy with E17, but when I post comment on it, I want to make it as neutral and rational as I can. My personal like or dislike is unhelpful for others. 
   
  Also as I have said, I need some time to test whether the "coldness" is neutral or distorted.
  Treble is another thing that I concern.

 Let me add something on treble.
   
  I want to say, the EQ setting on E17 is really effective.  When I set it treble to +6 (+6 is too much) there is a significant improvement on treble. Secret Garden I am listening.
  But what a pity! turning on the EQ will lose detail, what a tradeoff!
   
  My conclusion is that E9+E17(bypass)+HD600 does not give me an impressive improvement on treble. Maybe, this is the veil that people are talking about on HD600. 
  If this is the characteristic of HD600, then it is not a fault of E17


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> haha,* actually I am quite satisfy with E17,* but when I post comment on it, I want to make it as neutral and rational as I can. My personal like or dislike is unhelpful for others.
> 
> Also as I have said, I need some time to test whether the "coldness" is neutral or distorted.
> Treble is another thing that I concern.
> ...


 


  yes, you are supposed to be neutral. but you being so neutral made it sound like you didn't like it. you should make it neutral but then added that you liked it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  and yeah. EQ is quite quite satisfying. the detail is loss. but if you just lightly use it, the tradeoff is not much and is an improvement.
   
  using the DAC on this thing just adds to it. the difference is small, but when you really sit down, those more complex sounds you just notice how it doesnt' sound as "cramped together" on the ipod than on the E17 through optical(or usb or otpical)


----------



## Mikesin

Anyone else got this problem?
 Ive been using the E17 plugged into the Front panel USB since i've had it (couldn't be bothered to use the back USB's then ) 
 Now I've decided to plug it round the back, but comes up with 'Unknown Device' in Device manager after it fails the installing part although it recognizes what it is (Fiio E17 DAC AMP or w.e it was), until it fails of course..


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Anyone else got this problem?
> Ive been using the E17 plugged into the Front panel USB since i've had it (couldn't be bothered to use the back USB's then )
> Now I've decided to plug it round the back, but comes up with 'Unknown Device' in Device manager after it fails the installing part although it recognizes what it is (Fiio E17 DAC AMP or w.e it was), until it fails of course..


 
  open up start menu, go to "device manager" make sure E17 is plugged in. Find the E17, it might be a triangle cone and say unknown device or it might say it(before it fails) and right click and uninstal driver. plug the E17 out. plug back in. and it should re instal driver.
  
  look in the "sound,video and game controllers" section first before just uninstalling any old triangle coned "unknown device"
   
  i just tried the steps i gave you with my working E17 and it went as planned in case you are wondering. i uninstalled it. unplugeed. plugged back in, and windows update installed teh driver; i didn't need to but some things i have useed in the past don't auto instal driver and or it might not find so i tested it to see if it would also (should) work for you.


----------



## weipim

yup, pre ordered it as well


----------



## jono454

To set it on bypass when using with e9, the little circle thing has to be on the bottom setting rather than the top right?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> To set it on bypass when using with e9, the little circle thing has to be on the bottom setting rather than the top right?


 


   
   


> There is also a ‘LO Bypass’ switch on the right side. In the lower position (close to the words), Alpen will be in its default mode to output line level signal (fixed level, no EQ) when docked (to E9 or L7). In the upper position, Alpen will output pre-amp signal instead. In pre-amp mode, volume control and EQ will affect the output when docked.  If you don’t have any particular reason, I’ll suggest you leave the LO Bypass to the default line-out mode. If you do want the EQ to stay on the LO (LO Bypass enable), I will suggest you set Alpen to zero gain and max out on the volume (6dB gain is fine as well).  Use what even amp you are going to pair with Alpen to control volume and gain.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


>


 


  perfect thanks for the info =)


----------



## weitn

Instead of listening to Pop Rock or Dance musics yesterday night, I put on an oldies (laptop -> USB/DAC -> HD650), Say you Say Me by Lionel Richie. The instruments/musics on the first 15 seconds sounds better. The song became more alive when Lionel Richie starts singing. E17 is not going to detaching itself from my laptop anytime soon. I never tried my HD650 with a more expensive/better amp. However, I agree with other comments about E17 being a quite acceptable beginner amp for HD650. I believe HD650 has more room for improvement.
  
  Quote: 





weitn said:


> Does the E17 has a minimum burn in period? Does it gets better after certain hours?
> 
> I used the E17 with HD598 (laptop/iPhone 4s->E17(usb/DAC)->headphone), HD598 sound better especially when I increase the bass to +4, compared to if I listen it directly from my laptop HP Compaq 6910p without E17. Bose MIE2i also sound better with the bass +4 as Bose is always lack of bass (I used MIE2i mainly for taking long call).
> 
> ...


----------



## lshalamb

can anyone who owns HD600s actually listen to some BASS-y music (e.g. house, hip-hop, r&b) and tell me what does bass feel like? I generally listen to all sorts of music but sometimes I really wanna feel a good clear boom (exactly as artists planned it to sound)
  thank you


----------



## JamesFiiO

weitn said:


> Instead of listening to Pop Rock or Dance musics yesterday night, I put on an oldies (laptop -> USB/DAC -> HD650), Say you Say Me by Lionel Richie. The instruments/musics on the first 15 seconds sounds better. The song became more alive when Lionel Richie starts singing. E17 is not going to detaching itself from my laptop anytime soon. I never tried my HD650 with a more expensive/better amp. However, I agree with other comments about E17 being a quite acceptable beginner amp for HD650. I believe HD650 has more room for improvement.





 Say you , Say me ! Oh, it make me remember the time when I was young and I love it!


----------



## A Kennedy4

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> can anyone who owns HD600s actually listen to some BASS-y music (e.g. house, hip-hop, r&b) and tell me what does bass feel like? I generally listen to all sorts of music but sometimes I really wanna feel a good clear boom (exactly as artists planned it to sound)
> thank you


 

  
  this


----------



## bowei006

As of this time. we still need info on how the E17 works with D2K and a bit more info on the HD600/650 series


----------



## AgentXXL

Just a short update - I've been busy listening to my E17 & E9 for the last 5 days, pretty much every chance I get. I'm still not one to really believe in burn-in for solid state components, but I will admit that I'm enjoying the sound from my new toys more and more each day. Not sure if it's just my ears and brain adjusting to the new sonic signature or what, but I can definitely say I'm really pleased with the sonic signature of the E17 & E9. 
   
  I've been listening to a wide variety of sources and media types, ranging from pop, country, rock, classical, soundtracks, techno, world, etc - you name it and I've probably listened to at least one sample of it. What I'm most impressed with is the clarity and punch of most bass. Most, as some of it was obviously poorly mastered during the recording process. 
   
  One thing that has really surprised me is the soundstage when listening to audio books, movies, tv shows and even gaming, when using the E17. Definitely a wider, more present experience, at least to my ears. I was using some equalizer software on my MacBook Pro called Hear, but I have now disabled it. The E17 ( and E9) have made it unnecessary.
   
  I'm still planning to try them out using a friends HD650s tomorrow. I'll report back after with my findings.


----------



## bowei006

Thank you very much for your updated impressions AgentXXL! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I have also been listening for the past couple days. And yes, going from headphone out on my Macbook Pro which already has a good DAC and amp. Feels a lot more contstricted than with E17
   
  However, i find that i keep fiddling with EQ. just trying to get that perfect sound. It's easy wtih most tracks as i can just keep the bass boost on 6 or 8. but when it comes to my legit rock songs. It starts being this and that, this and that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ehh. just me.
   
  I think the little buzzing i was getting from E17 was from electrical interferance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it seems that sometimes it is either it conducting some signal from my lamp or .....very weirdly. moving the wire of my headphones up and down near the electrical wire also introduces interferance in! it's beeen happening to me on both AUX and Optical. and all the things are picking it up. sometimes my headphone wire, sometimes the optical cable and sometimes. i still hear it a bit after i unplug everything fromt eh E17 except the headphone cable and pick it up away from electricity and then it stops 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  however. With the E17 i can finally listen to Rise Against and Linkin Park again!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for me, my Rise Against tracks were too quiet(in Appeal to Reason). It seems it wasn't effected by the loudness war(as in they mastered it correctly) or the track was just ripped that way. From direct headphone out, the messy parts of linkin park and rise against tracks were very messy. on E17, it's not as messy. but still ...messy. but this is also a mastering problem. 
  Hero of War-Rise Against....Is amazing on this. Such clear vocals through HFI. with EQ +4 treble +2 Bass! 
   
  Fav EQ settings: (T for treble, B for bass)
  T4
  B2
   
  T2
  B6/8
   
  T0
  B2


----------



## A Kennedy4

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I'm still planning to try them out using a friends HD650s tomorrow. I'll report back after with my findings.


 

 I noticed you also have the shure SE 535. Can you post some impressions of the E17 with that too? Thanks!


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





a kennedy4 said:


> I noticed you also have the shure SE 535. Can you post some impressions of the E17 with that too? Thanks!


 

 Mine are SE-530s, but I certainly plan to.  Alas they are back at the Shure factory right now, waiting for a re-shell, a re-cable or replacement with some new SE-535s. Just waiting for the repair quote and recommendations from Shure.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

So this is gonna come out on Amazon in 2 months?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> So this is gonna come out on Amazon in 2 months?


 

 APPROX. that's what i call mass availbility and so it should become mass availble after teh third to fourth batch. FiiO calls them teh second batch..but it's really the 3rd and 4th batch. the only difference between the 3-4 batch and onwards is that they are going to include the words "ALPEN" somewhere onto the device...
   
  first batch sold out in 7 hours and is mad expensive in the EU. second batch arrives to MP4nation in mid feb and should arrive to America in late february. many want it. im expecting a quick sell out again. Anybody wiling to pre order has already did so in first batch. most tend to wait and see if they can buy instead of pre ordering from China(better RMA and easier in states) . so after 2nd batch sells out. it will take a bit more time for fiio to knock out 3rd batch with the slight change.


----------



## mrAdrian

Oh boy I like both of them too! To answer your question way earlier before, I sold my DJ1 for a D2000. Jealous? But DJ1/HFI580's bass is really really strong. I remember hooking it to a tube amp (Meixing mc66 ae) and wow. I prefer the way the Denons deliver their bass however, sounds more natural to me. In fact this applies over the whole spectrum, the ultrasone sounded a bit metalic for me.
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> however. With the E17 i can finally listen to Rise Against and Linkin Park again!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I will be posting impressions of the E17/9 pairing with both the Denon and the HD580 (HD600) when I get them... My reference point is the E7/9 obviously.
   
  To say a few things about HD600 pairing with the FiiOs. This is a headphone that scales LARGELY with amplification (It could sound amazing -> marvellous -> heaven sounding as you upgrade your source). So far for the E7/9, this is pretty much the starting point of driving them. So keep in mind, what the FiiO do to other cans e.g. the HFI580 would not be as obvious as in the Sennheisers. I must say I have not received my E17 to give any impressions yet, but bear in mind the limit of say the HFI580 would be much easier to reach compared to a HD600.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Oh boy I like both of them too! To answer your question way earlier before, I sold my DJ1 for a D2000. Jealous? But DJ1/HFI580's bass is really really strong. I remember hooking it to a tube amp (Meixing mc66 ae) and wow. I prefer the way the Denons deliver their bass however, sounds more natural to me. In fact this applies over the whole spectrum, the ultrasone sounded a bit metalic for me.
> 
> 
> I will be posting impressions of the E17/9 pairing with both the Denon and the HD580 (HD600) when I get them... My reference point is the E7/9 obviously.
> ...


 

 the last part is common sense to me but is a good reminder to newbies
   
  And yeah, my next upgrade is the D2K. what do you recommend? HD650 or D2K?


----------



## mrAdrian

I'm just afraid the hype of E17 would grow to a point where people would buy the DAC/AMP in the hopes of unleashing their new HD600's full potential - would not be the case. The fact that a E9 could make them sing is already a very good job done by FiiO.
   
  In fact, I am worrying would I hear a lot of upgrade if I only change the DAC, since the amp section is still the E9... But DAC makes a lot of difference in the overall sound as well, assuming the soundstaging, clarity etc. Can't wait to find that out myself.
   
   
  As to HD650 or D2K, I don't recall how a HD650 sound like. Do you want open or closed? Clarity or a more dark - even smoky/sexy - presentation? From what I recall and have read, the Denons might be in between of a Ultrasone presentation and a Senn HD650 presentation. Ultrasone bass is so quick and addictive, esp on trance/dubstep genres.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> I'm just afraid the hype of E17 would grow to a point where people would buy the DAC/AMP in the hopes of unleashing their new HD600's full potential - would not be the case. The fact that a E9 could make them sing is already a very good job done by FiiO.
> 
> In fact, I am worrying would I hear a lot of upgrade if I only change the DAC, since the amp section is still the E9... But DAC makes a lot of difference in the overall sound as well, assuming the soundstaging, clarity etc. Can't wait to find that out myself.
> 
> ...


 


  i actually don't really care at this moment but the D2K's seem to be my type of headphone.  i probably won't sell my ultrasone's and yes. the tight quick bass  love it. 
   
  and yes you do bring up a point. however if you read around. i've been asking HD600+ users to elaborate on their expereinces with the E17 so don't worry. the E17 has a lot of hype but i've been getting impressions and stuff and full answers out of users so readers won't get mixed up. this is a popular thread. i look to the right right now and i see over 20 reading it.... the E17 like u said is pretty hyped now. i just can't wait for the second batch to come out and a new wave of impressions to roll in. i'll be here to answer and do questions to help CLEIOS and FiiO out a bit


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i actually don't really care at this moment but the D2K's seem to be my type of headphone.  i probably won't sell my ultrasone's and yes. the tight quick bass  love it.
> 
> and yes you do bring up a point. however if you read around. i've been asking HD600+ users to elaborate on their expereinces with the E17 so don't worry. the E17 has a lot of hype but i've been getting impressions and stuff and full answers out of users so readers won't get mixed up. this is a popular thread. i look to the right right now and i see over 20 reading it.... the E17 like u said is pretty hyped now. i just can't wait for the second batch to come out and a new wave of impressions to roll in. i'll be here to answer and do questions to help CLEIOS and FiiO out a bit


 

 And I'm waiting for those impressions too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Love how you help out in this thread, I read your hidden PRC supporting post and lol. Proud Chinese here as well *waves~!
   
   
  p.s. What do you do for a living - do you get paid staying on headfi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Jokes of course). Every time I see a question that I know of it is already answered by you XD
   
   
   
  And lastly question: If I already have my E7/9 combo set up for my PC, do I just unplug the E7 from the dock and swap it with E17? Would my PC search for new drivers?


----------



## PsyMed

Is this thing portable? It's a DAC/Amp?
   
  You can always use this with the PC?


----------



## mister2d

jamesfiio said:


> To everyone, the new batch of E17 will be available after 2 months, and will marked with ALPEN, that is the most noticeable different with first batch. also we have not find any big bug which need to be fixed so you don't need to worry about any
> 
> different in SQ and features.




I think the static/garbled sound is "big bug". Are you saying FIIO hasn't experienced this yet? It has nothing to do with USB drivers since I wasn't using USB the last time this happened.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> And I'm waiting for those impressions too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  It is to my understanding that u just swap it. They both fit as they r meant to dock. And as the E17 will be connected for use as DAC i would say that it would get new drivers. I dont know how e7/e9 combo works. Is there an usb on e9 for connecting to computer? 
   
  Haha many asian patriots on head fi! "we have stood up! We will never be humiliated again! Let the earth tremble!" chairman mao on founding of prc! Zhonghua renming gongheguo. 
   
  And..... Yes im everywhere. I take it upon myself to check this page for updates very very frequntly. Im on head fi a lot. I am currently not working. I did odd jobs over summer though


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I think the static/garbled sound is "big bug". Are you saying FIIO hasn't experienced this yet? It has nothing to do with USB drivers since I wasn't using USB the last time this happened.


 


   
  I as well as most users have not experienced any problems. I have some problems with electrical interferance. But thats it, and its due to my wires bring on top of n electrical cable. Easily fixed for me


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





psymed said:


> Is this thing portable? It's a DAC/Amp?
> 
> You can always use this with the PC?


 


   
  Yes to all your questions. It is portable. When portable u cant use the dac with ipod. U can take it traveling and use as portable "sound card" though. It works with pc and mac and linux over usb or spdif(optical toslink and coaxil) i am in bed now. Plz if u have more questions ask and someone should be able to help u. If u dont receive a satisfactory answer or what not. PM me. Ur questions should be answered by the fine pll here though
   
  Sorry for the 3posts. I am on my phone in bed. I cant multi quote easily with it.


----------



## underhysteria

As a portable amp, how does the E17 compare to the darker sounding  E11?


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> I'm just afraid the hype of E17 would grow to a point where people would buy the DAC/AMP in the hopes of unleashing their new HD600's full potential - would not be the case. The fact that a E9 could make them sing is already a very good job done by FiiO.
> 
> In fact, I am worrying would I hear a lot of upgrade if I only change the DAC, since the amp section is still the E9... But DAC makes a lot of difference in the overall sound as well, assuming the soundstaging, clarity etc. Can't wait to find that out myself.
> 
> ...


 

 I got HD600, and I think what you said is right.


----------



## SoundDreamer

I've been lurking here for about 3 weeks and decided to join Head-Fi based on this Thread and the wealth of great information. I want to send a special thank you to everyone that has contributed and in particular, ClieOS, Bowei006, AgentXXL and duyu for spending their valuable time helping other potential E17 owners. Two weeks ago, I placed an order with mp4nation for the E17. This will be my very first amp/dac combo purchased and I'm looking forward to getting this device.....real bad.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I've been lurking here for about 3 weeks and decided to join Head-Fi based on this Thread and the wealth of great information. I want to send a special thank you to everyone that has contributed and in particular, ClieOS, Bowei006, AgentXXL and duyu for spending their valuable time helping other potential E17 owners. Two weeks ago, I placed an order with mp4nation for the E17. This will be my very first amp/dac combo purchased and I'm looking forward to getting this device.....real bad.


 


  Here we go:
 *"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*    
 Thank you for the thanks  i appreciate it  . What equiipment do you have? Do you use cd ripped lossless encoded music? what are your sources(computers,ipods,etc)? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  yes..i understand i lurk here. i saw the above post 54 seconds after it was posted and responded....yeah. im a boss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


Spoiler: PIC


----------



## SoundDreamer

I just changed my Avatar to the Sennheiser HD545 150 ohm headphones which I've owned since 1996. I sure love the Sennheiser sound. I have a mass of music files of mostly 16/44.1 and 24/96, along with some 24/192 and mp3. I very rarely listen to the few Mp3 I have. My laptop is a Toshiba from a couple of years back. Sorry, no portable music devices. All of my listening is on my headphones off of my laptop when I'm not listening to my main music system.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I just changed my Avatar to the Sennheiser HD545 which I've owned since 1996. I sure love the Sennheiser 545 sound 150 ohm headphones. I have a mass of music files of mostly 16/44.1 and 24/96, along with some 24/192 and mp3. I very rarely listen to the few Mp3 I have. My laptop is a Toshiba from a couple of years back. Sorry, no portable music devices. All of my listening is on my headphones off of my laptop when I'm not listening to my main music system.


 


  you will probably love the E17 then  computer sound is horrible...just plain horrible. even gaming enthusiast motherboards onboard sound is bad.laptop's are worse. only computer i know that comes standard with decent onboard sound are Mac's. i have yet to hear or remember too much about E17 with sennheisers below the 600 series(might've been a few a while back) so i can't tell you how well the FiiO will work wtih the sennhsiers as an audiophile. but the difference is going to be heard. remember to use USB and set E17 as default playback device 
   
  What is your main music system  ??
   
  Think about upgrading your cans?? some AKGS?new sennheisers? ultrasones? grado's?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Yes, I'm aware of the horrible sound I'm getting plugged in directly to the laptop. That's why I'm here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I thought about upgrading my phones this year but ended up rebuilding them. I rebuilt the headband cushion myself and probably would have done the same with the ear cushions if I didn't throw them in the trash. So, had to purchase the replacement cushions online (pricey but found the best deal).
   
  My main system is pretty basic. OPPO BDP-93 into a Pioneer SC-07 via HDMI. Currently, I'm using Cambridge Audio Minx satellite speakers along with two Mirage MM-8 subwoofers. I do play my music files via the OPPO more than actual discs. I own Seagate hard drives.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Yes, I'm aware of the horrible sound I'm getting plugged in directly to the laptop. That's why I'm here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  so basically. your headphone setupl.....just consists of a laptop. how do you know your laptop is horrible. it's already known it is. but have u been able to test it with a better source to let you know..duh my laptop is bad and is causing what i am hearing?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> so basically. your headphone setupl.....just consists of a laptop. how do you know your laptop is horrible. it's already known it is. but have u been able to test it with a better source to let you know..duh my laptop is bad and is causing what i am hearing?


 
  Yes, horrible in meaning I can do better but it's what I have for now.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Yes, horrible in meaning I can do better but it's what I have for now.


 


  oh sorry. i was asking. how/when did you know they were horrible? how do you know it's the laptop and not the headphones. usually people don't find this out unless they tried it with  a good source. i love looking to the right of the page. and always seeing people reading this  currently 17 people


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> oh sorry. i was asking. how/when did you know they were horrible? how do you know it's the laptop and not the headphones. usually people don't find this out unless they tried it with  a good source. i love looking to the right of the page. and always seeing people reading this  currently 17 people


 

 Because I've owned them since 1996. So, I know their sound and have listened via multiple sources over the years. The sound now through my Toshiba is not bad. I just know it can sound better. I don't have much compressed music so I'm always turning the volume way up. The soundcard on my Toshiba is a Realtek and is 24/192 kHz capable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Because I've owned them since 1996. So, I know their sound and have listened via multiple sources over the years. The sound now through my Toshiba is not bad. I just know it can sound better. I don't have much compressed music so I'm always turning the volume way up. *The soundcard on my Toshiba is a Realtek and is 24/192 kHz capable.*


 

 compressed music=louder music? i think you are confusing regular old copies that weren't affected by the loudness war and the new mastered or restored or digital versions who's volume has been raised to max out the 96dB 16 bit dynamic range ceiling they have. some clip. but in this generation. that last more or less been fixed and most use abelton and others to limit so it won't clip
   
  it doesn't matter what your spec's say. all they are doing is selling specs. it doesn't mean anything. well it does. but does 24/192 tell you how it sounds? no sadly  
   
  should've known. you had them since 1996 *facepalm* of course u went and tested them already


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> compressed music=louder music? i think you are confusing regular old copies...


 
  No, not confusing. You have it right. Dynamic range wise. I use Foobar and have the DR plug-in to test my files. This century the record companies have been terrible to digital music.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> No, not confusing. You have it right. Dynamic range wise. I use Foobar and have the DR plug-in to test my files. This century the record companies have been terrible to digital music.


 


 yeah. i have many old non loudness war affected files...sadly. it requires amping to get there...the e17 easily provides it...but when u amp it..the hiss and noise of the tracks show. yes, this was not originally on there. it's something that vinyl's just.....just have as an aftereffect. good vinyl's don't have much hiss, and the current generation modern music vinyls are good. what i mean by this is i have a couple songs from current gen mainstream bands that were also released on vinyl during this decade. they are loud and don't hit the dynamic ceiling and hiss and pops are at a minumum...i cant say the same for the others.
   
  I kinda like the song "imagine" by john lenon. i envisioned it to be this song that just surrounds the person......im sorry but i don't like the recording, vocals..everything of this song at all...


----------



## duyu

I have a question again about the battery charging...
   
  I have turned off the USB charging.
  I am curious what will happen if my battery has completely drained off? There will be no extra power to turn the USB charging on.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> I have a question again about the battery charging...
> 
> I have turned off the USB charging.
> I am curious what will happen if my battery has completely drained off? There will be no extra power to turn the USB charging on.


 

 hahaha!! i wondered that too.. i had USB charging off (im sure) and i lost all power... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so i frantically plugged USB in..and guess what..it worked  i think what happens is that...after it loses all power. it does not retain any settings and thus returns to default or blank stage allowing power into the device again.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hahaha!! i wondered that too.. i had USB charging off (im sure) and i lost all power...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks! I don't have the guts to do this testing!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Thanks! I don't have the guts to do this testing!


 


  i think it happened to me. im 90% sure i  had usb charging off when i lost all power! 
   
  ok everyone..ill do it. ill let my battery drain tonight. with usb charge off. and see what happens !


----------



## SoundDreamer

Doesn't the battery eventually die off...no recharging capability? If one can't change the battery, do we lose the ability to use the E17?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Doesn't the battery eventually die off...no recharging capability? If one can't change the battery, do we lose the ability to use the E17?


 


  do you mean..one day the battery will charge/store less and less and one day be unusable? yes. however batteries are rated for many many many effective recharge cycles. the E6 had about 500 charge cycles if i remember correctly. basically. if the E17 doesn't ahve any battery problems in the first year(within warranty) it probably won't have any for it's lifetime and have a good battery that will live throughout all those cycles. by the time you have lived/used up all the cycles of the battery. 
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_performance_as_a_function_of_cycling
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
   
  it seems li-ion batteries have an effective battery cycle of 1000 complete charges before battery drops below about ~70% of original storage. 
   
  15 hours* 1000 =15000hours / 24 hours = 625 days...
   
  you can use the E17 more or less *continuasly* for over 2 years before battery decreases to 70% of the original storage...
   
  i don't think you will have any problems at all. u will either upgrade by then, definatley not going to be using this that that much anyway.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Originally, I went to purchase a E17 at the Micca store but they didn't list them for sale. A day or two later, I read on this Thread that they were sold out in a matter of hours. So, I purchased through mp4nation. The next day, I sent an email asking about availability and the special they were running and told them I would consider cancelling my order with mp4nation and order through their Website if the special and availability were still on for the Mid-February availability. A couple of hours later, I received a one short sentence email:
   
  Hi,
  
  We have sold out of our stock of E17's. Next shipment will be in mid February.
   
   
  I was flabbergasted when I received their response. I thought to myself, I guess they have enough customers purchasing the E17 from them and don't need/want my money.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i don't think you will have any problems at all. u will either upgrade by then, definatley not going to be using this that that much anyway.


 
  Not me. When I purchase a component, it usually is used for several years...like my Sennheiser HD545's.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Originally, I went to purchase a E17 at the Micca store but they didn't list them for sale. A day or two later, I read on this Thread that they were sold out in a matter of hours. So, I purchased through mp4nation. The next day, I sent an email asking about availability and the special they were running and told them I would consider cancelling my order with mp4nation and order through their Website if the special and availability were still on for the Mid-February availability. A couple of hours later, I received a one short sentence email:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...


 

 nobody really purchases things from micca store. no reviews...store's more or less blank. they mainly do amazon sales and ebay if you actually see....they have enough and are anticipating customers(im going to bet they are watching this thread and have read my calculations and are thanking me in their offices right now) that they don't really care. well they do. but i guess tehy have too much to do to even worry about 1 person...one person!!!! buying an E17 when they have already seen..it sold out...IT SOLD OUT in hours.
   
  i answered teh battery question up above in case u missed it.
  haha i see. well even if you do use it alot....well. i guess by the time it's that old. you will pop it open and replace it yourself..or...something i guess.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote:  





> ..it sold out...IT SOLD OUT in hours.


 
   
  It probably "Sold Out" because they only had one or two to sell. LOL


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> It probably "Sold Out" because they only had one or two to sell. LOL


 

 that would be funny but if you check from what..page .....??50....a lot got them. it seems the size of the first batch may have been 5000. i keep seeing that number in "estimates" of error. how it went from 500 to 5000 and thus 1% is different blah blah blah for them.


----------



## Blueiz

MiccaStore is great! They have a policy of not listing items on their website UNLESS they ACTUALLY have the item in stock and can ship. No taking pre-orders only to find out that they didn't get enough in the next shipment to satisfy all the pre-orders.... leaves many "pre-orderers" left waiting and waiting. They have a thread here on Head-Fi that is keeping us informed of the expected availability.... search for it. Ordered many things from them and sometimes they even ship within a few HOURS of the order placement. Highly recommended.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





blueiz said:


> MiccaStore is great! They have a policy of not listing items on their website UNLESS they ACTUALLY have the item in stock and can ship. No taking pre-orders only to find out that they didn't get enough in the next shipment to satisfy all the pre-orders.... leaves many "pre-orderers" left waiting and waiting. They have a thread here on Head-Fi that is keeping us informed of the expected availability.... search for it. Ordered many things from them and sometimes they even ship within a few HOURS of the order placement. Highly recommended.


 


  i know that thread...is it the fiio E17 availbility thread? i don't think it's been updated recently or really much :/


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





blueiz said:


> MiccaStore is great! They have a policy of not listing items on their website UNLESS they ACTUALLY have the item in stock and can ship. No taking pre-orders only to find out that they didn't get enough in the next shipment to satisfy all the pre-orders.... leaves many "pre-orderers" left waiting and waiting. They have a thread here on Head-Fi that is keeping us informed of the expected availability.... search for it. Ordered many things from them and sometimes they even ship within a few HOURS of the order placement. Highly recommended.


 
  Well, I don't agree. You're either going to sell the "F" ing things or not. I'd be one of the many to pre-order and wait. I don't have time to stay on the Miccastore site only to refresh my page every five minutes or otherwise miss out. <sarcastic> A terrible way to do business. Also, receiving a poor response from them makes me glad I didn't do business with them.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Well, I don't agree. You're either going to sell the "F" ing things or not. I'd be one of the many to pre-order and wait. I don't have time to stay on the Miccastore site only to refresh my page every five minutes or otherwise miss out. <sarcastic> A terrible way to do business. Also, receiving a poor response from them makes me glad I didn't do business with them.


 


  well i guess i would be pretty.....well you know what if i got such a one sentence responce from them too but still :/ you know. Did you choose fedex with mp4nation or the free earbud?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> well i guess i would be pretty.....well you know what if i got such a one sentence responce from them too but still :/ you know. Did you choose fedex with mp4nation or the free earbud?


 
  FedEx. I wanted one yesterday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh! I'm waiting for that $150 portable player that I can store my hires files on.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> FedEx. I wanted one yesterday.


 

 haha. impatient i see now  you will get them .....in half a month


----------



## duyu

Because CeliOS praised a lot the EQ function of E17, I'm still trying to find a way to test those difference.
   
  I have tested again, E17 vs E17+E9, and I am more confirmed that HD600 needs an E9. E17 is quite powerful, if I did not make such comparison, I would say that HD600 pairing with E17 has already a quite good result. But listening to the same songs, having E9 you can find the music is much more dynamic and the sound is brighter not because of a high volume.
   
  Btw, I constantly got a feeling that the song was sung in a room or "in a space"...it is not an echo, but a kind of "dreamy" feeling. I don't know it is a good or bad thing. But like Sarach Brightman, orginally I love her a lot, but now it just becomes a bit too fake. Others, like Andrea Bocelli, the music does not give me this feeling.
   
   
  I have tested also the EQ function. As I said, it is repugnant to have double amplifying, not matter connecting E17 and E9 through the dock or 3.5mm. It loses too much clarity.
  So, I tested the EQ function with only E17 (without E9). So, my HD600 may not have enough power.
   
  I've said in the previous post said something negative about the treble of HD600. I meant that the extremely high frequency, like violin in "song from a secret garden", if you know, there is some part which the violin turns into very very high pinch, and I had a feeling that HD600 just can't reach there.
   
  That's why I think an EQ is needed.
   
  I changed my mind today.
   
  After comparing the same music (song from a secret garden), I found that treble + 2, has already given me a feeling of artificial, and it's uncomfortable for my ear.
  My current conclusion is that the EQ does not help HD600, not to mention eliminating the "veil" feeling.
   
  Now, I go back to the original setting, E9+E17(bypass)+HD600, and listen to "song from a secret garden" and "pastorale" again.
  I would now say, the high pinch is the most comfortable. 
   
  I was not satisfied with the high pinch of HD600, maybe due to I have used my Etymotic ER6 to listen Secret Garden a lot. It has a bright high, but very restricted, if not none, bass.
  So, I just take out my ER6 and give it a test. The high frequency is really what I am used to.  There is not much soundstage for this earphone, no bass, but the very high pinch is really amazing. I still want to say my ER6 win HD600 in this tiny bit. To conclude, I re-confirm the insufficiency of HD600 in the very very high pinch. You just do have the feeling of "itchy".
   
  Lastly, let me add a bit information about the improvement that E17 gave to ER6, though I don't know whether there is other people using ER6 in this forum.
  Similarly, there is more clarity. The bass is significantly better. (But I was told that ER6 needs an amp, which I didn't have).


----------



## bowei006

THank u duyu! I have read and will keep all this in mind. I know u r trying to stay neutral and not hype or do anything biased. But ur post will leave readers wonderi g.... What the conclusion is for the e17 plus 600/650 is it a good pairing byitself? With e9? For the price range, anything better? Recommend for price? Thank u


----------



## A Kennedy4

And how well the E17 helps the Bass of the 600's


----------



## wired4blues

Well said, I still have to audition a 'broad spectrum' gear (can or amp or both) that can deliver near nirvana fidelity on all types of genres.  It seems some are suited for classical and some for jazz music and some... for whatever their taste is.  I find the HD 600 well suited for classical music while my Grados (80i & 325) for classic rock and Jazz.  I guess it depends on our sensitivity for a particular type of music and beat.  I would really appreciate if some dudes out there can cite their personal musical experience specific to the type of gears & genre.


----------



## Sniperbombers

sniff! im so sad that i only recently received my E7 in the mail like 2 weeks ago. Now im reading about the E17. 

 *Sad Panda*


----------



## mrAdrian

Instead of the E17/9 with HD580, I am MUCH more excited to listen to the D2K with it. Can't wait nah nah nah nah nah COME ON~~!!


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> THank u duyu! I have read and will keep all this in mind. I know u r trying to stay neutral and not hype or do anything biased. But ur post will leave readers wonderi g.... What the conclusion is for the e17 plus 600/650 is it a good pairing byitself? With e9? For the price range, anything better? Recommend for price? Thank u


 


  bowei, I can't make any general comment yet, because E17+E9 is the only thing DAC+AMP I have listened.
   
  For a responsible review, I make all comments based on comparisons between different settings I can made.
   
  I would make some comment on whether E17+E9 is worth buying later on. I notice there is improvement after 10 hours listening. As what I have said, if you compare E17 with an ipod or other mp3 players. It is a very significant upgrade. Improvements on clarity, soundstage, bass are significant.
  ----
  I have one suggestion for those who own high impedance headphones (>=300OHM)and interested in E17, they should really consider buying E9 as the amp, when they want to upgrade. I think this is a very economical set up for those who want both a fairly decent DAC and Amp. You have to spend much much more to buy a DAC+cable+AMP, IMO.


----------



## Delgadido

house of DAP has it in stock.... is this **** real???

 Not many reviews so I am a little sketchy


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Quote: 





delgadido said:


> house of DAP has it in stock.... is this **** real???
> 
> Not many reviews so I am a little sketchy


 


  Be careful!  At the top of the FiiO E17 page it says,"Store is under maintenance. Any orders placed will not be honored or fulfilled."


----------



## Matter

Anyone knows if the E17 requires any form of burn-in at all?
   
  Thank you.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> sniff! im so sad that i only recently received my E7 in the mail like 2 weeks ago. Now im reading about the E17.
> 
> *Sad Panda*


 

 you can reutrn
   
   
  house of DAP? has it...they either went and personally bought it from a fiio distro when it came out.......or else they can't possibly have it. sure they could have bought it from mp4nation. but they would make a very very small profit. and there weren't many to buy from mp4nation 
   
   




duyu said:


> bowei, I can't make any general comment yet, because E17+E9 is the only thing DAC+AMP I have listened.
> 
> For a responsible review, I make all comments based on comparisons between different settings I can made.
> 
> ...


 
  i see...... you are right in that sense. so i guess we would need to see what other owners of the HD600/650 and E17 with other amps and dac's say about it


----------



## Sniperbombers

@Bowei006 - if i was able to return it i would, but i ordered the E7 through Ebay... i guess im gonna have to be using this until it gives.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> @Bowei006 - if i was able to return it i would, but i ordered the E7 through Ebay... i guess im gonna have to be using this until it gives.


 








 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well since u ordered through ebay im going to guess it's cheaper than normal. so it's probably a good deal


----------



## dexvx

I did the second batch of pre-orders from mp4nation and opted for the Fedex shipping. Hopefully it will arrive the third week of Feb.


----------



## Delgadido

I am wondering if it is even worth it doing the preorder. you dont think they will be overloaded on pre-orders already?


----------



## bowei006

mp4nation did take down their post when their first batch ran out. that's a good sign that they will take it down once it becomes unaviable. since they can handle the first batch. they can do this one. mp4nation sells to china. fiio E17 is small. it's like a fly in terms of orders. chinese products being sold count way way more


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I as well as most users have not experienced any problems. I have some problems with electrical interferance. But thats it, and its due to my wires bring on top of n electrical cable. Easily fixed for me


 


  There are several posts here by multiple people reporting problems with the E17 unit. Perhaps the voices are being drowned out, but they do exist.
   
  In fact, you yourself have posted issues with your unit on more than one occassion. Don't say you "have not experience any problems" (_that would be lying_). Did you delete your posts? (I'm not wasting time to check.)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> There are several posts by here by multiple people reporting problems with the E17 unit. Perhaps they voices are being drowned out, but they do exist.
> 
> In fact, you yourself have posted issues with your unit on more than one occassion. Don't say you "have not experience any problems" (_that would be lying_). Did you delete your posts? (I'm not wasting time to check.)


 

 no the problem i experienced WAS the problem i said myself right up there. further testing revealed it to be my headphone and otpical cable getting interefereance from laying on top of my lamp's electrical wire.(i actually did a small correction. on why i got the interferance and said it was this..but it was many pages after the initial post on the problem so some didn't see it) and sorry. i post a lot. im not wasting my time to delete or edit any of my hundred posts on this thread  and no i didn't lie. i fixed the problem i thought i was having. it was just intereferance from something else and not E17 unit itself. the headphone osciallitng due to digital volume from what i have heard and seen is normal and fixes itself. only problem is...the rattle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  hmm and sorry i said "have not experienced any problems" that would be indeed lying and my fault. bad wording on my part >_ < yes i have had experienced problems...and i was the one that caused them (one of the factors that i knew had to have been caused by me as nobody else experienced the buzz except one more person) and the oscilating sound was rectified by CLIEOS and common sense. i posted a long post on what i was hearing when i upped the volume. that is fixed. all that's left is a rattle. but that wouldn't count per say as i didn't experience any problems with the rattle. you took my "have not experienced any problems" literally so i guess i can use the same here " 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  but none the less. i admit my mistake and am sorry for saying "have not experienced any problems" and will ......idk....i can't possible read everything word for word and think abotu standard english all the time


----------



## mister2d

No worries. I just don't want FiiO to walk away thinking there haven't been any major issues.
   
  In all honesty, that static I was having has not cropped up in the last 3 days. Don't know why and I'm not complaining. I just wish it was something FiiO could experience so that they could run the issue to the ground.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> No worries. I just don't want FiiO to walk away thinking there haven't been any major issues.
> 
> In all honesty, that static I was having has not cropped up in the last 3 days. Don't know why and I'm not complaining. I just wish it was something FiiO could experience so that they could run the issue to the ground.


 
  sadly all the issues we are saying...are very hard to reproduce. all the way from the OS issue to the sound buzz thing. the OS is the hardest. the buzz. isn't that hard. but considering a lot aren't saying anything and mine was fixed..that's hard too...now...there's that rattle
   
  but then agin...how many DAC's and amp's do you know ...don't have any of these issues? this is usually said:
  1: STUPID (Inster company here), the (product here) won't instal or work with my computer! 
  2: There's something loose..maybe?
  3: i thougth i heard some buzzing or static with my amp..but ti's not there anymore.
   
  other than 2.....yeah.. number 1 is so common. yes they should look into it. but ....it's very hard. two is something they can and definatley should look into. 3..maybe cause from burn in? maybe. some say solid state doesn't need it. i don't know what to say. op amps getting used tohigher voltage? im not a very deep sound science expert here..so i know what i just said my sound stupid. but sometimes the stupidest things are actually what's causing it and even the college learned people could be wrong. for example. some voltage or electrical gguy on endgadget tried to disprove amplifiers as doing anything saying the bigger battery this, voltage swing this, this and that..and in the end was wrong.
   
  friom a post fiio gave. it seems they actually looked at it. they said something about. no problems detected or bugs so the third batch(they call second) will just feature a change where the words ALPEN will be on the device. so yeah it seems they did do some testing..and of course found nothing


----------



## mister2d

Well, FiiO is doing the right thing anyways. One of their last few posts mentioned that they are going to focus on quality and try not to grow too fast. Smart approach.
   
  I like the product philiosophy that FiiO brings which is why I will continue to buy what they sell and offer feedback. Not every hifi company has a focus on bringing value to the market (as they all shouldn't).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Well, FiiO is doing the right thing anyways. One of their last few posts mentioned that they are going to focus on quality and try not to grow too fast. Smart approach.
> 
> I like the product philiosophy that FiiO brings which is why I will continue to buy what they sell and offer feedback. Not every hifi company has a focus on bringing value to the market (as they all shouldn't).


 

 it is hard. once u sit down and start doing this and that. espeically with a small enthusiast company. in the end. many just go...whatever. we need more money to make this. FiiO however is at an advantage that most don't have. many products are already out. they know what works and what doesn't. labor is cheap in china so finding someone that knows his electrical components as well as an westerner is easy. they are based in china!, easy to do manufacturing and what not. so that..cuts and gives them the thing they need. so instead of saying "china? they must have cheap materials" we should say "wow, china? they can get stuff and knowledge easier and more efficent" nowadays. well not always but you know what i mean
   
  their approaches with the E10,E11 and E17 show that they aren't just releasing like products in the same series and just add incremental updates and thus have...like a bajilion products. but are keeping each one ffeatureful and for a purpose  i mean look at the E17. wonder how they even went from drawing board to be able to visualize such a product and performance. inspirational 
   
  and yeah. they expanded too too fast. the E11, and E10. gave them a huge increase in revenue(they are everywhere on head fi) and so. ..slowed down i guess 
   
  Proud user of FiiO . i wear my music bomb T-Shirt outside with pride. and i try to advertise the fiio brand name on the back of the shirt as much as possible
  "What's FiiO? They are currently one of the most popular makers of high end audio equipment targetted at users of audiophile high end class headphones and the like's!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  yes i like them. but if you happen to read all my posts very very thoroughly. i try to stay neutral. and ask for imrpessions from many people, what's wrong, how to fix problems and this and that. but soemtimes i feel people are too cold in their impressions also and are scaring people away from buying one. not that that's a bad thing. but when i get a reply that won't be seen from the viewers that they actually like the e17 a lot and just want to be a bit more neutral....i kinda go....hmm well that should be addded to the impression you gave :/


----------



## mister2d

Well, don't be concerned too much about it. The market will self correct due to the quality of the product, and I fully believe FiiO is definitely capable of delivering. The E11 is just that product where the perfect blend of features came together for one purpose. I expect more of the same as time goes on, and right now I can definitely live with the E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Well, don't be concerned too much about it. The market will self correct due to the quality of the product, and I fully believe FiiO is definitely capable of delivering. The E11 is just that product where the perfect blend of features came together for one purpose. I expect more of the same as time goes on, and right now I can definitely live with the E17.


 

 oh i just noticed then. quick question. some say the E11 is better, some say E17. what do you like better with your IEM's and then your M50's? i know "better" is very subjective..but...well you know what i mean i guess. it would help many M50 owners on the e17 and E11


----------



## gohanssjn

I guess I am just lucky that my laptop work with it on Ubuntu even though it's only garbled music and static in Windows.  I'd love a fix, but I'd imagin it would only be about 2% of my use of the device anyways.
   
  But again, FiiO, any info I can give, let me know


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I guess I am just lucky that my laptop work with it on Ubuntu even though it's only garbled music and static in Windows.  I'd love a fix, but I'd imagin it would only be about 2% of my use of the device anyways.
> 
> But again, FiiO, any info I can give, let me know


 


  fiio hasn't been too too active on head fi lately, their profile shows only 2 posts after the little silly comment fiio posted a few days ago on the song  
   
  they must be very very bussy right now. :/


----------



## gohanssjn

Maybe I'll shoot the account a private message then.  See if I get any response.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Maybe I'll shoot the account a private message then.  See if I get any response.


 


  They are good at those and any personal questions or what not should be encouraged to use a PM. You could ask them about the bugs we think may be there, but they have already said, they didn't personally find any. Hmm it would probably seem annoying(probably not) or something. I don't know. Well if you do feel the need to ask. Plz come tell us their responce.
   
  I know this thread has slowed down a bit. but come late feb.....it will boost right up again.
   
  I don't know if CLEIOS felt that this should be the all in one impression thread. but as he hasn't said anything and him being a professional reviwer. I doubt it would matter much.


----------



## AgentXXL

Hi all,
   
  Sorry to report that I didn't get to do my evaluation of the HD650 with my E17 + E9 on the weekend. I seem to have picked up a stomach flu of some sort and have been quite under the weather. I'll make arrangements with my friend to visit with him when I'm feeling better. Talk to you all soon - keep on enjoying your new toys!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry to report that I didn't get to do my evaluation of the HD650 with my E17 + E9 on the weekend. I seem to have picked up a stomach flu of some sort and have been quite under the weather. I'll make arrangements with my friend to visit with him when I'm feeling better. Talk to you all soon - keep on enjoying your new toys!


 
  IT is all right AGENTXXL. I will be looking forward to your post on it when you get back. Rest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will begin testing of the e17 with my active logitech Z623 speakers tmmrw. using optical connection 
  
  i will post my findings


----------



## ClieOS

bowei006 said:


> I don't know if CLEIOS felt that this should be the all in one impression thread. but as he hasn't said anything and him being a professional reviwer. I doubt it would matter much.




Post whether you want, as long as it is not OT too much. 

Anyway, I do believe the issue with Windows and OSX are mostly driver issue from the OS themselves. The TE7022 is designed to use the common USB audio driver so it is unlikely the problem is from the chip / hardware.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Post whether you want, as long as it is not OT too much.
> Anyway, I do believe the issue with Windows and OSX are mostly driver issue from the OS themselves. The TE7022 is designed to use the common USB audio driver so it is unlikely the problem is from the chip / hardware.


 

 Well we get more evidence that it is probably Windows (i have yet to hear any problems from anyone in OSX). but even if the chip is designed too. we can't always be 100% sure it's working and or that it's not the unit itself. only with two devices can we make sure(i doubt they will buy two units or RMA it)
   
  haha...I think we passed the too much limit a while back. We are going for 70K views with almost 1.5K posts >_< 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I know what you guys are wondering , about how i can answer all the questions and responces in a very timely manner usually. 
  1:I do not live on the internets.
  2:I am not paid by head fi to live here all day
  3:I do not have a job. Just classes
  4:I actually do other stuff. i just refresh my profile page a lot
  5:i do not have a life
  6:I love Head-Fi
   
  That should answer everything
   
  Pics of the E17 are availble here..well extra ones 
http://imgur.com/a/bYc9X


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> oh i just noticed then. quick question. some say the E11 is better, some say E17. what do you like better with your IEM's and then your M50's? i know "better" is very subjective..but...well you know what i mean i guess. it would help many M50 owners on the e17 and E11


 


   
   
  It would be a toss up between the two sound-wise. I would give the edge to the E11 because it just feels more powerful due to the analog volume knob. Every little movement from the dial and it just pumps out sound with no distortion. It makes me afraid to use it with my IEM's at higher volumes quite honestly. Since the Shure's sit snug in your ear canal, I fear that some day I would accidentally knock the volume up on the E11 and blast my drums. The Shures take a bit longer to get out of your ear than in comparison to most others.
   
  The M50s just rock with either one. Such an awesome headset.
   
  On a related note, I did receive the HFI-580s this past Friday and I've been listening to them on the E17 vs. the M50s. Quick rundown... the 580s are about as bright as my IEM Shure's on the high end. I have to go -2 or lower on the treble for some songs (not all). Ear pads hurt after an hour, so I temporarily swapped my M50 pads in and everything was comfortable again. The sound comparison of the two headsets amplified? I would say I can tell a distinct difference. This being gain +6 on the E17. The M50 feels warmer to my ears. The bass notes are smoother. Impact feels the same. The 580s deep bass feels sharp. Kind of hard to describe. If I turn the gain up to +12, it's so unbearable it's not even funny. Maybe if I can find an eq to smooth that lower end out a good bit. I bet they would surpass what I think of the M50s, but as it stands I've gone back to the M50s today. Another few days to evaluate the two and I will decide which to keep.


----------



## mister2d

clieos said:


> Post whether you want, as long as it is not OT too much.
> Anyway, I do believe the issue with Windows and OSX are mostly driver issue from the OS themselves. The TE7022 is designed to use the common USB audio driver so it is unlikely the problem is from the chip / hardware.





 
 
 I've experienced the issue over optical as well. No drivers there. USB audio in Linux has been trouble-free thus far.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Well we get more evidence that it is probably Windows (*i have yet to hear any problems from anyone in OSX*). but even if the chip is designed too. we can't always be 100% sure it's working and or that it's not the unit itself. only with two devices can we make sure(i doubt they will buy two units or RMA it)
> 
> haha...I think we passed the too much limit a while back. We are going for 70K views with almost 1.5K posts >_<
> 
> ...


 

  
  I use OSX primarily (it cropped up there for me there). When at work I'm using Linux.
   
  Oh, and your 1-6 answers... I figured that out already.  LOL


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> It would be a toss up between the two sound-wise. I would give the edge to the E11 because it just feels more powerful due to the analog volume knob. Every little movement from the dial and it just pumps out sound with no distortion. It makes me afraid to use it with my IEM's at higher volumes quite honestly. Since the Shure's sit snug in your ear canal, I fear that some day I would accidentally knock the volume up on the E11 and blast my drums. The Shures take a bit longer to get out of your ear than in comparison to most others.
> 
> The M50s just rock with either one. Such an awesome headset.
> 
> On a related note, I did receive the HFI-580s this past Friday and I've been listening to them on the E17 vs. the M50s. Quick rundown... the 580s are about as bright as my IEM Shure's on the high end. I have to go -2 or lower on the treble for some songs (not all). Ear pads hurt after an hour, so I temporarily swapped my M50 pads in and everything was comfortable again. The sound comparison of the two headsets amplified? I would say I can tell a distinct difference. This being gain +6 on the E17. The M50 feels warmer to my ears. The bass notes are smoother. Impact feels the same. The 580s deep bass feels sharp. Kind of hard to describe. If I turn the gain up to +12, it's so unbearable it's not even funny. Maybe if I can find an eq to smooth that lower end out a good bit. I bet they would surpass what I think of the M50s, but as it stands I've gone back to the M50s today. Another few days to evaluate the two and I will decide which to keep.


 
   
  there are many that prefer the hfi 580. but each person is very very different. the ultrasone's require at leasst 12 hours burn in and a recommended......a lot. 40 hours is good. burn it in overnight or something
  
   


  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I've experienced the issue over optical as well. No drivers there.USB audio in Linux has been trouble-free thus far.


 

 ...sorry i haven't :/
   


  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> I use OSX primarily (it cropped up there for me there). When at work I'm using Linux.
> 
> Oh, and your 1-6 answers... I figured that out already.  LOL


 

 haha unix based operating systems  lolz
   
  haha. ibet everyone has already.  just thoguth i'd make it more known. how are my photography skillz  im joking. i know i suck at photo's i tried hard though and got some decent ones


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha unix based operating systems  lolz
> 
> haha. ibet everyone has already.  just thoguth i'd make it more known. how are my photography skillz  im joking. i know i suck at photo's i tried hard though and got some decent ones


 

 Yeah, unix is my life.
   
  The pics are nice. I thought the woodgrain set it off. But I'm partial to brown. One of my favorite colors.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Yeah, unix is my life.
> 
> The pics are nice. I thought the woodgrain set it off. But I'm partial to brown. One of my favorite colors.


 


  i've messed with so many 
   
  yeah the wood does look nice. i was going for the focus and prespective  haha. well off to bed. cya guys tmmrw


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





matter said:


> Anyone knows if the E17 requires any form of burn-in at all?
> 
> Thank you.


 

 My impression/thought is that you will see very little change over time with solid state components. Any change encountered I've usually attributed to parts like analog volume pots and/or other components which can change their characteristics over time due to motion. The E17 uses a digital volume control, so the only components that could see change are the analog input/output jacks. The SPDIF/USB jacks won't change the signature with repetitive use as they are digital connections. The headphone out and aux in, as well as the analog connections on the dock connector are the only ones that might impact sound signature over time. That said, I really doubt any of us have ears sensitive enough to notice the minute changes over time.
   
  My conclusion: the E17 will not require nor benefit from any form of burn-in period. You may perceive a change over time with the headphones you use with the E17, mainly as the diaphragms and voice coils adjust to the electronic output from the E17. It's not the E17 itself that's doing the burn-in, but rather your headphones adjusting to the drive from the E17.


----------



## ClieOS

mister2d said:


> I've experienced the issue over optical as well. No drivers there.USB audio in Linux has been trouble-free thus far.




Yes, SPDIF doesn't even use software driver to communicate between PC and DAC. If you are saying the same PC gives you problem on Windows with USB and SPDIF, but not with Linux, then it is definitely a Windows software problem.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Yes, SPDIF doesn't even use software driver to communicate between PC and DAC. If you are saying the same PC gives you problem on Windows with USB and SPDIF, but not with Linux, then it is definitely a Windows software problem.


 


  No Windows here. I was using two separate laptops to figure out the issue. One is a MacBook Pro and the other is a ThinkPad running Linux. The issue issue I faced happened without the use of software drivers, so that isn't it.
   
  No problems since last week. It appears to be sporadic and hard to isolate and reproduce. I'll just keep a watch on it and see if it happens again.


----------



## Rayzilla

Question on First Charging of E17:
   
  1) Can I plug it directly into the wall outlet using the USB connector with the Apple wall unit connector?
  2) How long do I need to charge it for on its first charge?
  3) Should there be any power in the E19 when you first unpack it?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mrAdrian

Need more burn in for the ultrasone, or let yourself get used to the sound signature a bit more. The HFI580 is quite a bright/metallic sounding headphone, but the BASS is really, really impressive. I'm saying that in comparison to the $250ish Denon D2k.
  
  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> It would be a toss up between the two sound-wise. I would give the edge to the E11 because it just feels more powerful due to the analog volume knob. Every little movement from the dial and it just pumps out sound with no distortion. It makes me afraid to use it with my IEM's at higher volumes quite honestly. Since the Shure's sit snug in your ear canal, I fear that some day I would accidentally knock the volume up on the E11 and blast my drums. The Shures take a bit longer to get out of your ear than in comparison to most others.
> 
> The M50s just rock with either one. Such an awesome headset.
> 
> On a related note, I did receive the HFI-580s this past Friday and I've been listening to them on the E17 vs. the M50s. Quick rundown... the 580s are about as bright as my IEM Shure's on the high end. I have to go -2 or lower on the treble for some songs (not all). Ear pads hurt after an hour, so I temporarily swapped my M50 pads in and everything was comfortable again. The sound comparison of the two headsets amplified? I would say I can tell a distinct difference. This being gain +6 on the E17. The M50 feels warmer to my ears. The bass notes are smoother. Impact feels the same. The 580s deep bass feels sharp. Kind of hard to describe. If I turn the gain up to +12, it's so unbearable it's not even funny. Maybe if I can find an eq to smooth that lower end out a good bit. I bet they would surpass what I think of the M50s, but as it stands I've gone back to the M50s today. Another few days to evaluate the two and I will decide which to keep.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rayzilla said:


> Question on First Charging of E17:
> 
> 1) Can I plug it directly into the wall outlet using the USB connector with the Apple wall unit connector?
> 2) How long do I need to charge it for on its first charge?
> ...


 


   
  Fiio answered this a while back so i will summarize. Yes. But only use authentic apple made usb chargers. 3rd party and chinese copies are not recommended. High quality 3rd part ones should work safely as well. I was talking about the dollar made 3rd party ones.
   
  For the first charge from completley empty if u use Apple wall charger should be about 2 hrs. Low powered usb charging on Macbook took 5hours
   
  E17 i know its a typo. And yes. All fiio units come with some power so you can begin enjoying immiadatley. Despite some warnings. You can use it immiadatley. Batteries have advanced. Nothing really does big damage these days


----------



## duyu

Did anyone tried connecting E17 through S/PDIF from PC?
  Does it support 192/24BIT?
   
  How the set up should be?


----------



## JamesFiiO

To who have problem to connect our ALPEN E17 to their PC, please try to use foobar to play the music and install the ASIO component so the digital signal can bypass the audio process in WIN OS, but unfortunately
   
I am not sure if it can work because we have not any problem to install ALPEN to our PC ( we have about 50 PCs, running WIN XP, WIN 7-32bit, WIN 7-64bit and MAC OS ) 
   
   
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio
   
   
About Foobar and ASIO, hope someone can help me introduce it more easy to understand, because no everyone can total understand what it is and how it work. and it is too difficult to me to do that in English .


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Did anyone tried connecting E17 through S/PDIF from PC?
> Does it support 192/24BIT?
> 
> How the set up should be?


 

 Yes, you can see someone already posted if you look back this thread and all the answers is YES!


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, you can see someone already posted if you look back this thread and all the answers is YES!


 
   
  It is quite impossible to follow this thread now. Sorry for the duplicate question!


----------



## Delgadido

but preordering is different? do you think they know about how many they have to sell?
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> mp4nation did take down their post when their first batch ran out. that's a good sign that they will take it down once it becomes unaviable. since they can handle the first batch. they can do this one. mp4nation sells to china. fiio E17 is small. it's like a fly in terms of orders. chinese products being sold count way way more


----------



## SoundDreamer

I purchased the E17 for sound quality. My concern is, maybe, I should have went with the E10 or even E11 headphone amp because of the analog volume control versus the digital one used in the E17.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> To who have problem to connect our ALPEN E17 to their PC, please try to use foobar to play the music and install the ASIO component so the digital signal can bypass the audio process in WIN OS, but unfortunately
> 
> I am not sure if it can work because we have not any problem to install ALPEN to our PC ( we have about 50 PCs, running WIN XP, WIN 7-32bit, WIN 7-64bit and MAC OS )
> 
> ...


 
  ASIO driver made no difference for me.  And I can verify it is going through the ASIO driver.

 EDIT:  ASIO made it worse actually, lol.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





delgadido said:


> but preordering is different? do you think they know about how many they have to sell?


 

 they probably do. they knew with the first one
   


  Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I purchased the E17 for sound quality. My concern is, maybe, I should have went with the E10 or even E11 headphone amp because of the analog volume control versus the digital one used in the E17.


 
  they gave an explanation for  why they went didigtal.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> To who have problem to connect our ALPEN E17 to their PC, please try to use foobar to play the music and install the ASIO component so the digital signal can bypass the audio process in WIN OS, but unfortunately
> 
> I am not sure if it can work because we have not any problem to install ALPEN to our PC ( we have about 50 PCs, running WIN XP, WIN 7-32bit, WIN 7-64bit and MAC OS )
> 
> ...


 

 if I may ask James. How many workers does FiiO personally employ? do the factory workers just make FiiO? So basicaly how many in total?
  Who is the CEO?


----------



## gEaK

From Amazon.co.uk product page:
   
  "*Date first available at Amazon.co.uk:* 23 Jan 2012"
   
  But now out of stock.
   
  Is this true? There is 1 customer review so I'm guessing I missed it somehow.
   
  Can anyone tell me how much it cost from Amazon UK?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





geak said:


> From Amazon.co.uk product page:
> 
> "*Date first available at Amazon.co.uk:* 23 Jan 2012"
> 
> ...


 


  people would tell u to read around the thread...but you don't have to. this thread has gotten too big so idon't expect u too. but
  yes. the supply was extremely limited. it sold out in 7 hours in the U.S from the majortiy of north american official fiio retailers. the UK had it probably bc one of the distro's just put it online..and then sold out themselves.
   
  i can't tell you how much it is going to cost. it is worth as much as USD $134 to over $223. $135 from mp4nation and 170 euros from german or the EU.(which is about $223)
  but it will probably cost $150 USD for you about 94 pounds. so 90 to 100 pounds for you./...probably. sometimes the initial amazon batchers charge more so 110 pounds :/


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> they gave an explanation for  why they went didigtal.


 

 I must have miss this. Why?
  Also, is the volume attenuated before the DAC, within the DAC or after?
   


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> yes. the supply was extremely limited. it sold out in 7 hours in the U.S from the majortiy of north american official fiio retailers.


 
   
  Are you saying that there are more than one U.S. distributor?
  
  Edit: nevermind, I just looked again at the "Where To Buy" page on the Fiio site.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I must have miss this. Why?
> Also, is the volume attenuated before the DAC, within the DAC or after?
> 
> 
> ...


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/870#post_8101532
  read this first and then
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/885#post_8102366
   
   
  Quote: CLIEOS 





> It is the digital volume controller trying to switch between steps, totally normal. Even with much more expensive portable with digital volume control, you can still hear this kind of switching wehn changing volume, especially if you have a sensitive headphone.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/870#post_8101532
> read this first and then
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/885#post_8102366


 
   
  I still don't understand why they went with a digital volume control over analog unless it was an update to the E7 that they wanted to stay digital. Makes sense.
   
  It sounds to be a separate digital controller outside the DAC? If so, it would be interesting to know where it's installed in the signal path. Before the DAC is never a good thing.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I still don't understand why they went with a digital volume control over analog unless it was an update to the E7 that they wanted to stay digital. Makes sense.
> 
> It sounds to be a separate digital controller outside the DAC? If so, it would be interesting to know where it's installed in the signal path. Before the DAC is never a good thing.


 
  oh sorry. i spent 30 minutes looking for the comment. i couldn't find it. it was either clieos or fiio that told the reason for why. i think it was on ...balancing the channels. stepped this...or was it so they have more steps to raising volume. for the sensitive IEM's. i think. don't quote me. i forgot. whatever i read sounded good enough though. and i don't realy care...well there are times when i want a faster raising and lowering of volume :/


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> oh sorry. i spent 30 minutes looking for the comment. i couldn't find it. it was either clieos or fiio that told the reason for why. i think it was on ...balancing the channels. stepped this...or was it so they have more steps to raising volume. for the sensitive IEM's. i think. don't quote me. i forgot. whatever i read sounded good enough though. and i don't realy care...well there are times when i want a faster raising and lowering of volume :/


 

 My main concern of choosing digital over analog volume is the truncation of digital bits to the signal. Of course, leaving it at a fixed (full volume mode) isn't a problem but listening via headphones is not an option.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> My main concern of choosing digital over analog volume is the truncation of digital bits to the signal. Of course, leaving it at a fixed (full volume mode) isn't a problem but listening via headphones is not an option.


 


  Well as my linked post said. i hear it. it's quite audible when u raise the volume fast(not when a "regular song" is playing though) but then it corrects the signal and it's gone in seconds. reviewers like Mike and CLIEOS and others on this thread...don't have any problem at all.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Well as my linked post said. i hear it. it's quite audible when u raise the volume fast(not when a "regular song" is playing though) but then it corrects the signal and it's gone in seconds. reviewers like Mike and CLIEOS and others on this thread...don't have any problem at all.


 
   
  It sounds like we are speaking of two different things here. I will wait for Fiio to respond.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> It sounds like we are speaking of two different things here. I will wait for Fiio to respond.


 

 I would shoot a PM instead to get an answer. if you do get a good one. plz post here for us all to see why they used digital instead of analog...though im almost sure somebody already did. no matter. seeing it again works


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> people would tell u to read around the thread...but you don't have to. this thread has gotten too big so idon't expect u too. but
> yes. the supply was extremely limited. it sold out in 7 hours in the U.S from the majortiy of north american official fiio retailers. the UK had it probably bc one of the distro's just put it online..and then sold out themselves.
> 
> i can't tell you how much it is going to cost. it is worth as much as USD $134 to over $223. $135 from mp4nation and 170 euros from german or the EU.(which is about $223)
> but it will probably cost $150 USD for you about 94 pounds. so 90 to 100 pounds for you./...probably. sometimes the initial amazon batchers charge more so 110 pounds :/


 

 Yes mate, been following the thread for a few weeks and surprisingly I have read it all.
   
  I check here daily in case there's an update about UK stock availability, and there was never any mention of Amazon UK.
   
  I placed a pre-order with mp4nation last week which came to £88.30, the cheapest online.
   
  I just wanted to hear from somebody who already purchased one from Amazon.co.uk to see how much they paid.
   
  Getting a little tedious waiting around now, Feiao can you give us any updates? Will mp4nation definately be getting stock "mid February" as they say?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





geak said:


> Yes mate, been following the thread for a few weeks and surprisingly I have read it all.
> 
> I check here daily in case there's an update about UK stock availability, and there was never any mention of Amazon UK.
> 
> ...


 
  seeing as they held previous promises and everything seems to be on schedule. i guess it will. u should be getting late feb  E17 is hand assembled


----------



## lshalamb

im also curious in deliverability of mp4nation
  Do they ship from China?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> im also curious in deliverability of mp4nation
> Do they ship from China?


 


  yes MP4nation is based out of Hong Kong. they ship from their.


----------



## Mech0z

How does this get power, and can it be powered and play at the same time?


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





mech0z said:


> How does this get power, and can it be powered and play at the same time?


 

 Power from rechargable internal battery. Power is gotten from USB, and it can be powered (charged, I think, is what you mean) while it's in use.


----------



## Mech0z

Ok cool, should have power on all the time if I use it with my Thinkpad then. Can I parse 5.1 sound through this and connect it to my Reciever at the same time as I have headphones in it? Because then I think I will get this when it gets in store on amazon.co.uk (if thats the cheapest place to buy it in Europe)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mech0z said:


> How does this get power, and can it be powered and play at the same time?


 


  dorino answered it well but i will offern an extended answer
   
  this gets power from an internal li-ion battery. 1500MaH. 50% larger than E7's.
  You can recharge it through the mini USB port on the E17 only. This port is for charging the E17 and for using the E17 as an DAC and amp through USB connection. you can turn off USB charging in settings. if you have this off and E17 runs out of batteries. the settings reset so you will still be able to recharge.
  while it is plugged in yes it can be in use and charge at the same time. the E11 couldn't which is why i think u are asking. the battery is not removable by user. regular light when on is blue. when charging with device off is red. when in use and charging it is a mix of blue and red(purple really). wehn charging is finished. the light will dissappear if the device is off and it will turn blue if you are using it and charging. regular charge time is 1.5 to 2 hours. charging on smaller laptops take about 5 hours(for me it did). using and charging at same time takes quite a bit longer to charge. the 1.5 hours is only if it's completley off with battery drained and on a regular USB port. Again. some laptops are lower powered ones. batteries are not recommended to be charged on a "fast charger" as that threatens the batteries life. the slower the charge the better. but 1.5 hour charge is fiio defined and is the usual charge time. this can be used with an iphone USB charger. or any other high quality equilvalent 3rd party usb chargers. high quality is the keyword. avoid using chinese copied iphone usb chargers(i have a few) and don't use cheap 3rd party adapters as well.
   
  i think i just answered every charge and battery question :/ haha ..maybe..just maybe


----------



## ClieOS

mech0z said:


> Ok cool, should have power on all the time if I use it with my Thinkpad then. Can I parse 5.1 sound through this and connect it to my Reciever at the same time as I have headphones in it? Because then I think I will get this when it gets in store on amazon.co.uk (if thats the cheapest place to buy it in Europe)




Stereo only.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Stereo only.


 

 Though if you have a card that supports CMSS-3D you can hack the processing onto what's fed to the external DAC using only software, don't even need to touch the circuits on the card, just needs to be plugged in for the software to work. And if you don't have a Creative card, you can pop one in your desktop for ~$25 Bear in mind that's really only if you want 5.1 on your headphones for gaming/movies, but it's what I plan on doing when I pick an E17 up. I posted a guide on it in the Nameless PC thread.


----------



## djevoultion

Anyone know how the E17 compares to the Ibasso D7?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I would shoot a PM instead to get an answer. if you do get a good one. plz post here for us all to see why they used digital instead of analog...though im almost sure somebody already did. no matter. seeing it again works


 
   
  After reading the specs on the WM8740, I would almost bet Fiio is using the attenuation on the chip to save space and money. As usual, attenuation is performed prior to the actual DAC.


----------



## ClieOS

sniperczar said:


> Though if you have a card that supports CMSS-3D you can hack the processing onto what's fed to the external DAC using only software, don't even need to touch the circuits on the card, just needs to be plugged in for the software to work. And if you don't have a Creative card, you can pop one in your desktop for ~$25 Bear in mind that's really only if you want 5.1 on your headphones for gaming/movies, but it's what I plan on doing when I pick an E17 up. I posted a guide on it in the Nameless PC thread.



You are justing adding 5.1 simulation EQ to the 2.0 sound, not making it 5.1. The hardware inside E17 doesn't support actual hardware 5.1 decoding. Allyou can add is software EQ to the stereo sound to make it 'feels' like 5.1, but it is nothing more than EQ.




sounddreamer said:


> After reading the specs on the WM8740, I would almost bet Fiio is using the attenuation on the chip to save space and money. As usual, attenuation is performed prior to the actual DAC.




Volume control is implemented after the DAC stage, before the amp stage. If it is implemented before the DAC stage, you can't control volume on AUX-in mode (which is the pure amp mode where signal goes straight to the amp section but not the DAC section). Plus, I never heard anyone implement volume control before DAC stage. That will be quite stupid (not to mention not easy to implement on hardware level) as that will be digital attenuation on the digital data itself and will cause resolution degradation - that is the same reason why we advice people not to use Windows' volume control to adjust volume.

The main reason to use digital volume control, as explained in the review on the first page, is to enable EQ and (especially) Pan control, which can't be do done easily using analog pot. Also, the isn't the first FiiO amp to use digital volume control. FiiO has already used digital volume on E5, E6 and E7. E17 just uses a better digital volume control circuit to enable it for more function.

Reading back a few of your posts, I really don't understand what your concerns are as it seems you are thinking the whole implementation in a wrong way.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You are justing adding 5.1 simulation EQ to the 2.0 sound, not making it 5.1. The hardware inside E17 doesn't support actual hardware 5.1 decoding. Allyou can add is software EQ to the stereo sound to make it 'feels' like 5.1, but it is nothing more than EQ.


 
  Oh agreed (sorry if that was misleading), but certain headphones can really shine with virtual surround in gaming or movies. It's something to consider if you want to be able to have "gaming mode" at the flip of a switch while still retaining the awesome DAC capabilities of the E17, which is what I'm looking for. Not really relevant to everyone but I bet there's a few out there who haven't found Nameless' thread for that yet.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Oh agreed (sorry if that was misleading), but certain headphones can really shine with virtual surround in gaming or movies. It's something to consider if you want to be able to have "gaming mode" at the flip of a switch while still retaining the awesome DAC capabilities of the E17, which is what I'm looking for. Not really relevant to everyone but I bet there's a few out there who haven't found Nameless' thread for that yet.


 


  One important thing is , some user will not think it is a good idea when there are features help nothing for the SQ. not to talk about the surround effect, even any products with EQ will be regarded as consumer products. 
   
  So it is decided by the market but not decided by manufacturer, and you can find there are lots of gaming headphone in the market, LOL.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You are justing adding 5.1 simulation EQ to the 2.0 sound, not making it 5.1. The hardware inside E17 doesn't support actual hardware 5.1 decoding. Allyou can add is software EQ to the stereo sound to make it 'feels' like 5.1, but it is nothing more than EQ.
> Volume control is implemented after the DAC stage, before the amp stage. If it is implemented before the DAC stage, you can't control volume on AUX-in mode (which is the pure amp mode where signal goes straight to the amp section but not the DAC section). Plus, I never heard anyone implement volume control before DAC stage. That will be quite stupid (not to mention not easy to implement on hardware level) as that will be digital attenuation on the digital data itself and will cause resolution degradation - that is the same reason why we advice people not to use Windows' volume control to adjust volume.
> The main reason to use digital volume control, as explained in the review on the first page, is to enable EQ and (especially) Pan control, which can't be do done easily using analog pot. Also, the isn't the first FiiO amp to use digital volume control. FiiO has already used digital volume on E5, E6 and E7. E17 just uses a better digital volume control circuit to enable it for more function.
> Reading back a few of your posts, I really don't understand what your concerns are as it seems you are thinking the whole implementation in a wrong way.


 

 According to the WM8740 diagram, the attenuation is performed before the DAC. I agree and have been saying that having the volume control before the DAC stage is not good, but common on many SOC designs. I'm all for a digital volume control when done correctly. Don't make me take this thing apart when I finally receive it just to find out.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Sorry for being a little bit off topic but I need an answer about this and this topic is pretty active.  The power outlet thingy for my E9 makes a buzz noise.  I notice it when I go to sleep cause I don't have loud ass music playing.  So is this normal or what?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You are justing adding 5.1 simulation EQ to the 2.0 sound, not making it 5.1. The hardware inside E17 doesn't support actual hardware 5.1 decoding. Allyou can add is software EQ to the stereo sound to make it 'feels' like 5.1, but it is nothing more than EQ.
> Volume control is implemented after the DAC stage, before the amp stage. If it is implemented before the DAC stage, you can't control volume on AUX-in mode (which is the pure amp mode where signal goes straight to the amp section but not the DAC section). Plus, I never heard anyone implement volume control before DAC stage. That will be quite stupid (not to mention not easy to implement on hardware level) as that will be digital attenuation on the digital data itself and will cause resolution degradation - that is the same reason why we advice people not to use Windows' volume control to adjust volume.
> The main reason to use digital volume control, as explained in the review on the first page, is to enable EQ and (especially) Pan control, which can't be do done easily using analog pot. Also, the isn't the first FiiO amp to use digital volume control. FiiO has already used digital volume on E5, E6 and E7. E17 just uses a better digital volume control circuit to enable it for more function.
> Reading back a few of your posts, I really don't understand what your concerns are as it seems you are thinking the whole implementation in a wrong way.


 

 I think it is just a misunderstanding because some products do includes the volume control in the DAC section, most MP3, Cellphone, Smartphone use the build in volume control function in the DAC chip. 
   
  The reason is that it can control the space and the cost, most DAC chip designed for MP3, MP4, Cellphone will includes a DAC core, headphone amp, speaker amp, ADC for the MIC in , volume control, and lots of other features.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Sorry for being a little bit off topic but I need an answer about this and this topic is pretty active.  The power outlet thingy for my E9 makes a buzz noise.  I notice it when I go to sleep cause I don't have loud ass music playing.  So is this normal or what?


 


  Yes, we received some feedback about this question, it is safe . and when you turn on the E9, the buzz noise will disappear.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> I think it is just a misunderstanding because some products do includes the volume control in the DAC section, most MP3, Cellphone, Smartphone use the build in volume control function in the DAC chip.
> 
> The reason is that it can control the space and the cost, most DAC chip designed for MP3, MP4, Cellphone will includes a DAC core, headphone amp, speaker amp, ADC for the MIC in , volume control, and lots of other features.


 

 Appreciate the feedback on this topic.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, we received some feedback about this question, it is safe . and when you turn on the E9, the buzz noise will disappear.


 

  
  Is it okay to keep on unplugging and replugging it everyday?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Is it okay to keep on unplugging and replugging it everyday?


 


  Sure


----------



## Mech0z

I wasnt trying to get 5.1 in stereo, I thought the E17 had a spdif OUT not IN, I would like to feed both my HD555 and my surround reciever with one DAC, but the only unit I can find that has that is the audiotrak prodigy cube, but from different reviews the quality compared to my Thinkpad W520s onboard soundcard is minimal


----------



## ClieOS

sounddreamer said:


> According to the WM8740 diagram, the attenuation is performed before the DAC. I agree and have been saying that having the volume control before the DAC stage is not good, but common on many SOC designs. I'm all for a digital volume control when done correctly. Don't make me take this thing apart when I finally receive it just to find out.




I think you are thinking FiiO might have used the WM8740 for volume control, which they are not (*not even on E7, where volume is controlled by the power amp chip's internal gain) There is a separate chip (a stereo DSP) inside E17 that does the volume control.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, you can see someone already posted if you look back this thread and all the answers is YES!


 


  I want to buy a coax cable to connect my E17 to PC, any recommendation?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I think you are thinking FiiO might have used the WM8740 for volume control, which they are not (*not even on E7, where volume is controlled by the power amp chip's internal gain) There is a separate chip (a stereo DSP) inside E17 that does the volume control.


 

 Yes, I was thinking that but was corrected a few Posts back. I'm really looking forward to this player's most bang for the buck.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> According to the WM8740 diagram, the attenuation is performed before the DAC. I agree and have been saying that having the volume control before the DAC stage is not good, but common on many SOC designs. I'm all for a digital volume control when done correctly. Don't make me take this thing apart when I finally receive it just to find out.


 


   
  we won't be happy until you take it apart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Sorry for being a little bit off topic but I need an answer about this and this topic is pretty active.  The power outlet thingy for my E9 makes a buzz noise.  I notice it when I go to sleep cause I don't have loud ass music playing.  So is this normal or what?


 

 Power outlet? the plug that goes into the wall? or the headphone out is making a noise u can hear in your headphones?


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> we won't be happy until you take it apart
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 the plug cause once i unplugged it the noise stopped


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> the plug cause once i unplugged it the noise stopped


 


  Well FiiO answered it and it seems it's normal. I didn't see there was a next page when i replied


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> we won't be happy until you take it apart


 
   
  Maybe, I won't have too, once there is a photo of the circuit board Posted somewhere. 
  Though, I'm starting to trust Fiio on this one.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Maybe, I won't have too, once there is a photo of the circuit board Posted somewhere.
> Though, I'm starting to trust Fiio on this one.


 


  it's because.......what they said made sense.. haha. well tell us what you think when u get it. it should be free of problems for u


----------



## eclein

The very first thing I did when I got mine (E17) yesterday was to hook up the USB from my Sony VAIO laptop to see quickly what it sounded like, the five minute quick listen turned into a 2 1/2 hour long session. I caught myself talking out loud to no one on more then a few occasions saying something to the effect that "...man on man buying this piece was a good move"  and once even singing Happy Birthday to me- I'll be really old on the 26th.
   
   A fellow head-fier bought one on impulse and after taking delivery realized he needed another DAC/Amp like a hole in the head so he sold it and my lucky ass was reading the sale ad the other night minutes after he posted it and impulsively wrote "I'll definitely buy the E17 from you and paypal you the funds within minutes of your sending me the email address" - the smartest thing I've done in my 54th year on the planet.
   
  Today after fully charging the unit I hooked it up via Coax to my main system which is a nearfield listening setup in my bedroom consisting of Virtue Audio TWO.2 amp, Piano M1 CD player and a Squeezebox Touch running into a Grant DAC-09 DAC/Pre-amp using the Tube pre outs for the tube buffer feature and the little unit did not disappoint. A worthy replacement DAC if I ever need one or desire a change in sound-extremely worthy!
   
  I took a nice walk today as part of my rehab from crippling peripheral neuropathy trying out my Etymotic MC5 IEM's to see if I could flatten them out with some added "Bass" eq- the walk was frigid cold but the music was warm and threw a little spring in my limp.
   
  I have like I said just received this slightly used E17 so the jury has not even left the courtroom to convene but so far its performing well above its price point and has yet to even remotely bum me out on any level. Happy Birthday to me!!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





eclein said:


> The very first thing I did when I got mine (E17) yesterday was to hook up the USB from my Sony VAIO laptop to see quickly what it sounded like, the five minute quick listen turned into a 2 1/2 hour long session. I caught myself talking out loud to no one on more then a few occasions saying something to the effect that "...man on man buying this piece was a good move"  and once even singing Happy Birthday to me- I'll be really old on the 26th.
> 
> * A fellow head-fier bought one on impulse and after taking delivery realized he needed another DAC/Amp like a hole in the head so he sold it and my lucky ass was reading the sale *ad the other night minutes after he posted it and impulsively wrote "I'll definitely buy the E17 from you and paypal you the funds within minutes of your sending me the email address" - the smartest thing I've done in my 54th year on the planet.
> 
> ...


 

 wait. so tell me. what / why didn't the other head fi'er want it? whaqt got you on impulse to just jump and buy the e17 with such enthusiasm? this thread? haha
   
  i see u have a Schiit. that's a nice schiit. hahah pun intended. how would you compare the schiit to this? this is only $150 but you get my point. is this a good backup amp and dac..or a portable one?
   
  how did it fit your purposes. it kinda didn't seem like u will be using it often ?
   
  ohh and..almost happy birthday to you  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  guys...we all know now...i live on head fi.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





eclein said:


> The very first thing I did when I got mine (E17) yesterday was to hook up the USB from my Sony VAIO laptop to see quickly what it sounded like, the five minute quick listen turned into a 2 1/2 hour long session. I caught myself talking out loud to no one on more then a few occasions saying something to the effect that "...man on man buying this piece was a good move"  and once even singing Happy Birthday to me- I'll be really old on the 26th.
> 
> A fellow head-fier bought one on impulse and after taking delivery realized he needed another DAC/Amp like a hole in the head so he sold it and my lucky ass was reading the sale ad the other night minutes after he posted it and impulsively wrote "I'll definitely buy the E17 from you and paypal you the funds within minutes of your sending me the email address" - the smartest thing I've done in my 54th year on the planet.
> 
> ...


 

 Happy Birthday to you！
   
  Everyone is a star in the sky, and wish you will be the brightest one . Wish you all happiness, health and prosperity with many returns of the day.!


----------



## Orangetree

I just want to post a follow-up to my post back here about the distortion I was experiencing with the E17.
   
  I noticed there was a very small, almost trace amounts of some white, crumbly substance on the dock connector of the E9. My E9 is brand new, so I assume it was some sort of manufacturing residue. I cleaned it and have been using the E9+E17 combo for a while with no trouble. I'm also now starting to notice a very subtle difference between the sound of using the E17 and sound right from the on-board audio (which is good).
   
  I'm not sure I really benefit much from having the E9 and would be happy using it straight from the PC through the E17, but I love having the analog volume knob right there along with a 1/4" plug. Plus, I don't want the E17 just floating around on my desk and potentially getting crushed or dropped. All in all, I really appreciate the little thing.


----------



## eclein

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 1)
> wait. so tell me. what / why didn't the other head fi'er want it? whaqt got you on impulse to just jump and buy the e17 with such enthusiasm? this thread? haha
> 2)
> i see u have a Schiit. that's a nice schiit. hahah pun intended. how would you compare the schiit to this? this is only $150 but you get my point. is this a good backup amp and dac..or a portable one?
> ...


 
  1) He told me he had too many of this type of portable, I wanted one of the very first batch in a big way mine is #125 by the way...LOL. I'm a big fan of Fiio stuff. Just ask feiao (thanks for the nice poem my friend!!)
   
  2) Totally different beasts but I understand your question, both are excellent Schiit! My 3rd DAC/amp and only one I have and use daily when walking for my rehabbing of my legs-weather permitting. I was a professional drummer before I became crippled last year- a really long story for another day.

 3) (see #2) Will be used daily- most of the day I think.......LOL
   
  4) Thanks I'm worlds only 54 yr old 15 yr. old...LOL
   
  5) Its all good!!


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





eclein said:


> I wanted one of the very first batch in a big way mine is #125 by the way.


 

  How do you know that!?!?
   
  Also, peeled the feet off of mine.  They traveled way too much.  Back to the bands and some poster goo to keep it in place on the back of the iPod.  I only wish I hasn't cut holes in the case for the feet now   It's on its last legs anyways, lol.


----------



## eclein

Actually I double checked and its #132...OOps. I went by the serial number- some letters a bunch of zero's then 132 to finish the string. I don't know very much about production runs like this but I took a guess. I mean there has to be a way the company (Fiio) can tell where in the run each piece was produced in case they need to run down an issue correct?? If I'm wrong please correct me anybody??


----------



## Y2HBK

I have to say, I love my E11 + LOD. It has been an amazing accessory for my iPod. There are those times however where I would like to just plug into my Macbook Air (personal) or Macbook Pro (at work) and listen to music that way. I would assume I can still use my LOD with the E17 as easily as I do with the E11. Would the E17 make a great replacement for my E11 and would I benefit from using it on those machines?
   
  Also - where has everyone been purchasing theirs from?


----------



## eclein

I also have an E11 and the E17 is better in my opinion. They are different sound characters with the 17 sounding a bit sweeter and with more air. I also love my E11 though and use an LOD cable with my ipod touch and Yes it works with the E17. 
   
  The best sound I've gotten so far, actually it was the first thing I tried out so the difference was evident, was using USB out of my VAIO laptop. I love the sound that way. For me all the way around the E17 is a fine product. I bought mine used, not sure if there are any to get at this point in time.....enjoy it if you get one.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





eclein said:


> Actually I double checked and its #132...OOps. I went by the serial number- some letters a bunch of zero's then 132 to finish the string. I don't know very much about production runs like this but I took a guess. I mean there has to be a way the company (Fiio) can tell where in the run each piece was produced in case they need to run down an issue correct?? If I'm wrong please correct me anybody??


 


  Huh... I don't see anything like that on mine.
   
  EDIT:  Oh!  On the box.    283 here it seems.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Also - where has everyone been purchasing theirs from?


 

 In case you missed it, mine was purchased from the second batch at mp4nation.


----------



## skyline315

Is the DAC on this technically different from the E7? 
   
  I plan to get the E9, but don't know whether to pair it the E7 or E17.  I really don't care about the treble and bass adjustments.


----------



## Y2HBK

So I have primarily been using my iPod Nano (gift from the wife) with my E11 to play my music. The problem is, its only 8GB and thats nothing when you fill it with lossless audio. 
   
  I was thinking about picking up an iPod classic. All my music is already in iTunes in ALAC format ready to be synched, and the storage is 160GB. Has anyone had any experience with using the older iPods with the current Fiio amps + LOD? Any problems?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





skyline315 said:


> Is the DAC on this technically different from the E7?
> 
> I plan to get the E9, but don't know whether to pair it the E7 or E17.  I really don't care about the treble and bass adjustments.


 

 the DAC used is the same. the Wolfson WM8740. In this case it's kinda like this. which car is faster. they both have the same engine. most would tell me...to ask for more info bc that doesn't really decide everything and that's the point. the receiver's (USB sPDIF) are different and better and the components are updated. technically? yes. DAC? no.
   


  Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> So I have primarily been using my iPod Nano (gift from the wife) with my E11 to play my music. The problem is, its only 8GB and thats nothing when you fill it with lossless audio.
> 
> I was thinking about picking up an iPod classic. All my music is already in iTunes in ALAC format ready to be synched, and the storage is 160GB. Has anyone had any experience with using the older iPods with the current Fiio amps + LOD? Any problems?


 

 since everyone on head fi uses their ipod classics with an LOD and most have fiio amps...why would there be any problems?


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> the DAC used is the same. the Wolfson WM8740. In this case it's kinda like this. which car is faster. they both have the same engine. most would tell me...to ask for more info bc that doesn't really decide everything and that's the point. the receiver's (USB sPDIF) are different and better and the components are updated. technically? yes. DAC? no.


 


 Thanks...baically what you're saying is that, used as a DAC alone, I won't get better sound from the E17?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





skyline315 said:


> Thanks...baically what you're saying is that, used as a DAC alone, I won't get better sound from the E17?


 

 Yes you will. unless you use the L7 to line out and just use it as a DAC. then the changes are only in the receiver chips. im not sure if they are different. they were if i remember correctly(the USB). but if you are going from computer to E7 or E17 and then to headphones.. yes. the difference is there. because then you add in the ampliifer and the two op amps it uses. this and that. etc


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> the DAC used is the same. the Wolfson WM8740. In this case it's kinda like this. which car is faster. they both have the same engine. most would tell me...to ask for more info bc that doesn't really decide everything and that's the point. the receiver's (USB sPDIF) are different and better and the components are updated. technically? yes. DAC? no.
> 
> 
> since everyone on head fi uses their ipod classics with an LOD and most have fiio amps...why would there be any problems?


 
   
  "Everyone" is a very broad term. Sorry, I don't have access to everyone's personal collection to see what they use, otherwise I wouldn't have asked. A majority of what I read were users specifying they had an "iPod" - not the model. Since the classic is 2 years old I wanted to make sure there would generally be no issues with compatibility.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> "Everyone" is a very broad term. Sorry, I don't have access to everyone's personal collection to see what they use, otherwise I wouldn't have asked. A majority of what I read were users specifying they had an "iPod" - not the model. Since the classic is 2 years old I wanted to make sure there would generally be no issues with compatibility.


 


  sorry i knew everyone was a broad term. but i just got home and was too tiired to think of another word. but a majority do use an LOD with the classic.


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes you will. unless you use the L7 to line out and just use it as a DAC. then the changes are only in the receiver chips. im not sure if they are different. they were if i remember correctly(the USB). but if you are going from computer to E7 or E17 and then to headphones.. yes. the difference is there. because then you add in the ampliifer and the two op amps it uses. this and that. etc


 


 I'm going to be docking it into an E9.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





skyline315 said:


> I'm going to be docking it into an E9.


 


  there are many here that have E7/E9 and E17/E9 can someone answer this for him?


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> sorry i knew everyone was a broad term. but i just got home and was too tiired to think of another word. but a majority do use an LOD with the classic.


 

 Thanks for the help! I had a nice size gift card for best buy so I picked one up on the way home. Will be playing with it tonight.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Thanks for the help! I had a nice size gift card for best buy so I picked one up on the way home. Will be playing with it tonight.


 


  Enjoy. Are you getting the E17? with it? or just an E11 or something like that?
  Anyway some fun facts you might care about:
  Your ipod classic uses a Cirrus Logic DAC. Some think the larger one's use Wolfson. Used to. not anymore.
  Your ipod can support .alac .wav .aiff are the 3 largest ones. .alac is the only one u should care about. uncompresses is ridiculous. 
   
  If you really really need space. depending on your amp and headphone setup. as in how expensive/good it is and how good your ears are. Encoding your CD ripped alac files into 320kbps mp3 with itunes will give you..more or less same sound. you might think ffff right now. right? yeah. well the main point is. 320kbps mp3's downloaded offline..are different from encoding cd ripped alac tracks that you yourself have. the 320's i find usually incorprate hiss, some sometimes recessed or overpronouced vocals, dynamic range problems, clipping etc. but 320kbps you did yourself is very hard to tell apart. you can make them in itunes. just go to preferences menu and in the general tab. go to import settings. choose mp3 and for setting. choose custom. up it to 320kbps. don't change anythiing else. now click ok , ok. and exit. find your best song and about 10 others you like and encode it. and then listen to it. either on ur ipod. change the name so one is alac and one is mp3 after the song name and see if you hear a difference. have ur family member or somebody do a blind test on you...the oldies songs and less complex ones are easier to tell apart from mainstream or regular music. overal. i myself would still take the ALAC. knowing that everything's there and i wont' meet any problems, some noise here and there is important to me. you probably as well. im just showign u that an option is availble if you are very very very tight on funds and don't have the funds.
   
   
  anyway. what do you guys think of this USELESS setup?
   
 


  
 


  
  
 an even MORE useless setup, im just using the E5 up there. im dual amping with an E5 down here....yeah. those are earbuds right there.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





skyline315 said:


> Is the DAC on this technically different from the E7?
> 
> I plan to get the E9, but don't know whether to pair it the E7 or E17.  I really don't care about the treble and bass adjustments.


 


  Do you mean you don't care about the EQ setting?
  You've no reason not to set to lo-bypass when you dock E17 on E9. Using Lo-bypass, EQ settings will stop functioning.
  Not in the lo-bypass means that there is double amp-ing. The SQ is much worse.
   
  I share your puzzle. As I know the E7 & E17 using the same chip. I don't know whether E17+E9 is better than E7+E9. The part that E17 is better than E7 may only be the amplifying section.


----------



## bowei006

E17 has S/PDIF chip which can do 24/192KHz and a (?)updated USB chip(im too lazy to research this). it features 2 operational amplifiers. One used as an op amp and the second an AD8397 used as the main driving amp. Some EQ settings. and then some improvements to the overal UI, function, performance. like less hiss, buzz, any sound problems and etc. the E7 MSRP is $100 and the E17 MSRP is $150....$50 over the E7 MSRP(sold for $80 though so $70) to me...is worth that amplifier for portable use. and to the person that wants a better DAC...spdif allows 24/192...


----------



## Pelotonjon

Did anyone's E17 come with a screen protector?  Mine didn't, and when I contacted FiiO, they said a protector was not included.  I thought I saw a screen protector listed as included in the instruction manual.


----------



## nOoneNL

So I've cancelled my order at MP4nation a while back.
 Decided to play it safe and place an order at a local shop, here in The Netherlands.
  It's a bit more expensive, but I'll be damned if I have to send it all the way back to China.

 I was expecting to receive the E17 somewhere this week, but now there's a 1 to 2 week delay.
 Due to quality complications, from what I've heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Well, I guess it's for the best... *sigh*


 I see alot of you guys are paring the E17 with a iPod, anyone try it with a PCDP yet?
  Like a (semi-)old Sony or something?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





pelotonjon said:


> Did anyone's E17 come with a screen protector?  Mine didn't, and when I contacted FiiO, they said a protector was not included.  I thought I saw a screen protector listed as included in the instruction manual.


 


  yes mine did.
http://fiio.com.cn/upfile/File/2012/20120107161255.pdf

   
  here. im helping you out. contact James, he is the feiao user here. he should be able to help you. FiiO is at a point in time right now where they can't afford to have bad publicity on not honoring their agreements with no official statement notifying a change in included accesories. I'm sorry for your ....slightly less than pleasant experience man. hope you get one sent out. they will probably send you one. it's near dirt cheap to send a screen protector in those packages.problem is it will take 2 weeks.


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> E17 has S/PDIF chip which can do 24/192KHz and a (?)updated USB chip(im too lazy to research this). it features 2 operational amplifiers. One used as an op amp and the second an AD8397 used as the main driving amp. Some EQ settings. and then some improvements to the overal UI, function, performance. like less hiss, buzz, any sound problems and etc. the E7 MSRP is $100 and the E17 MSRP is $150....$50 over the E7 MSRP(sold for $80 though so $70) to me...is worth that amplifier for portable use. and to the person that wants a better DAC...spdif allows 24/192...


 


  Yeah, I'm not sure that I'd really be able to notice the difference between 24/192 and what the E7 outputs.  
   
  I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out.  If I'm going to spend an extra 50 dollars for the E17, when paired with the E9 I wonder if I'm going to get a $50 improvement in sound or if I'll just be paying for technical advantages that don't translate into improved SQ for my situation.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





skyline315 said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure that I'd really be able to notice the difference between 24/192 and what the E7 outputs.
> 
> I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out.  If I'm going to spend an extra 50 dollars for the E17, when paired with the E9 I wonder if I'm going to get a $50 improvement in sound or if I'll just be paying for technical advantages that don't translate into improved SQ for my situation.


 


  if you see needed a desktop DAC and no portability...why didn't you go with something like the Tube Magic d1?


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





pelotonjon said:


> Did anyone's E17 come with a screen protector?  Mine didn't, and when I contacted FiiO, they said a protector was not included.  I thought I saw a screen protector listed as included in the instruction manual.


 


  I got screen protector


----------



## yawny

Ii've read through the last few pages, but i'm confused. Are you able to bypass the amp on the E17 and use it purely as a DAC?
   
  I plan to use it as both a portable amp+DAC and a desktop DAC into an amp (which i don't own yet), but obviously the second won't be possible without it being able to bypass the amp.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





yawny said:


> Ii've read through the last few pages, but i'm confused. Are you able to bypass the amp on the E17 and use it purely as a DAC?
> 
> I plan to use it as both a portable amp+DAC and a desktop DAC into an amp (which i don't own yet), but obviously the second won't be possible without it being able to bypass the amp.


 


  You can. as long as you switch to lo-bypass.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





yawny said:


> Ii've read through the last few pages, but i'm confused. Are you able to bypass the amp on the E17 and use it purely as a DAC?
> 
> I plan to use it as both a portable amp+DAC and a desktop DAC into an amp (which i don't own yet), but obviously the second won't be possible without it being able to bypass the amp.


 

 1: yes. you would need to use the FiiO L7 to bypass teh E17's amp and use as a DAC. the FiiO L7 also works with the E7. Make sure to use the LO bypass switch on the E17.
   
   
   
  Quote CLIEOS: 





> there is also a ‘LO Bypass’ switch on the right side. In the lower position (close to the words), Alpen will be in its default mode to output line level signal (fixed level, no EQ) when docked (to E9 or L7). In the upper position, Alpen will output pre-amp signal instead. In pre-amp mode, volume control and EQ will affect the output when docked.  If you don’t have any particular reason, I’ll suggest you leave the LO Bypass to the default line-out mode. If you do want the EQ to stay on the LO (LO Bypass enable), I will suggest you set Alpen to zero gain and max out on the volume (6dB gain is fine as well).  Use what even amp you are going to pair with Alpen to control volume and gain.


 
   
   
  2:The second will be possible. you will just be dual amping. is that bad? not always. dual amping from a bad amp or circuitry on any end of it is no prefereed. some dual amp to add tone and EQ to it.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





pelotonjon said:


> Did anyone's E17 come with a screen protector?  Mine didn't, and when I contacted FiiO, they said a protector was not included.  I thought I saw a screen protector listed as included in the instruction manual.


 


  Yes.  Here, you can see it on mine.


----------



## duyu

A hint for those who plan to use E17+E9.
  I found that you will get a better SQ if you fix the volume of E9 to 10-11o'clock, and adjust the volume using the software you are using to play music, say, Foobar2000.
   
  Originally, I thought it's better to use E9 to adjust the volume, but I found it is actually not the case.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> A hint for those who plan to use E17+E9.
> I found that you will get a better SQ if you fix the volume of E9 to 10-11o'clock, and adjust the volume using the software you are using to play music, say, Foobar2000.


 


  I think that this depends on the headphones really. driveabiity and each headphones different sweet spot. but thanks for the suggestion anyway duyu 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  we've gotten many people including myself that have gotten screen protectors. i linked a picture and document specifying FiiO's need to include the screen protector on the page before.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Wait, we need this L7 thingy in order to use E17'S DAC when using a computer?  We just can't connect the E17 in the E9 and turn on a switch?


----------



## steveb

Has anyone out there ever gone through the RMA process with MP4Nation?  I'm starting to worry about my pre-order after reading about missing screen protectors and the like.


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> if you see needed a desktop DAC and no portability...why didn't you go with something like the Tube Magic d1?


 


  I thought the portability would be nice with my laptop/SRH 940s when on the road.  This doesn't happen often, but having the option is always nice.
   
  But yes...I have considered the D1 and the HUD-MX1.


----------



## yawny

So if i'm reading correctly, using the L7 and the LO Bypass switch will allow my to bypass the E17's internal amp and run it as a standalone DAC into the amp of my choice?


----------



## Blueiz

Quote: 





yawny said:


> Ii've read through the last few pages, but i'm confused. Are you able to bypass the amp on the E17 and use it purely as a DAC?
> 
> I plan to use it as both a portable amp+DAC and a desktop DAC into an amp (which i don't own yet), but obviously the second won't be possible without it being able to bypass the amp.


 


  Yes, but you need the Fiio L7 LOD.


----------



## yawny

Quote: 





blueiz said:


> Yes, but you need the Fiio L7 LOD.


 


  Cool, that's all i needed to know. 
   
  How does the E17 stack up to standalone DAC units? Being portable and semi-inexpensive, i wouldn't expect  a massive amount, but from what everyone seems to say, it's pretty good.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





yawny said:


> Cool, that's all i needed to know.
> 
> How does the E17 stack up to standalone DAC units? Being portable and semi-inexpensive, i wouldn't expect  a massive amount, but from what everyone seems to say, it's pretty good.


 

 ^ i'd like to know too as the only dac i currently have is the e17 and if i want to upgrade my amp in the future would the e17 suffice  as a decent DAC by itself compared to the competition (i.e. audinst)


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Wait, we need this L7 thingy in order to use E17'S DAC when using a computer?  We just can't connect the E17 in the E9 and turn on a switch?


 

 No, you don't need the L7 if you have the E9. When the E17 is docked with the E9, you can use the E17 as a DAC with fixed line out of the E9 RCA jacks and adjustable pre-out from the E9 3.5mm pre-out jack. The L7 is only required if you want line out and don't have an E9.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> ^ i'd like to know too as the only dac i currently have is the e17 and if i want to upgrade my amp in the future would the e17 suffice  as a decent DAC by itself compared to the competition (i.e. audinst)


 

 My impression is that the E17 does a very admirable job as a DAC by itself, especially at the price point. I also own a Headamp Pico which uses the same WM8740 chip, but with a different implementation that sells as a DAC only version for $400 US, or as a DAC/amp version for $500. I have the DAC/amp version and while it does have a slightly more open soundstage, the DAC implementation on the E17 is pretty damn close! And at a savings of $350 for the full DAC/amp version, it's even more impressive.
   
  I've also played with a $650 Cambridge DacMagic Plus, which uses 2 WM8740 chips in its implementation, and is definitely a dedicated desktop DAC. The DacMagic Plus has quite a different feature set when compared to the E17 or the Pico. Most interesting though is that when compared side by side with the Headamp Pico, I couldn't really tell the difference between the two DACs. Technically, by specifications, the DacMagic Plus is superior, but to my ears in a listening comparison, I couldn't really hear the difference when both were configured similarly.
   
  The extra features of the DacMagic Plus may justify its price for some, but for me who wants to use a simple USB DAC with my lossless audio collection, the E17 is  more than satisfying - it's downright delicious!


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Technically, by specifications, the DacMagic Plus is superior, but to my ears in a listening comparison, I couldn't really hear the difference when both were configured similarly.
> 
> The extra features of the DacMagic Plus may justify its price for some, but for me who wants to use a simple USB DAC with my lossless audio collection, the E17 is  more than satisfying - it's downright delicious!


 
   
  This is good to hear! I was looking at the DacMagic really close but couldn't justify spending that amount of money.


----------



## djevoultion

How does the E17 compare to the Ibasso D7?


----------



## gohanssjn

Just wanted to add to the E17 discussion. I have been trying out my E17+L9 cable on two sources: an iPod Touch 2G 32GB, and an iPod 5G 60GB.  
   
  I actually find that the iPod Touch is giving me better sound out of the L9 cable setup than the 5G.  Everything sounds a little more detailed, and the bass has noticeably more punch to it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Just wanted to add to the E17 discussion. I have been trying out my E17+L9 cable on two sources: an iPod Touch 2G 32GB, and an iPod 5G 60GB.
> 
> I actually find that the iPod Touch is giving me better sound out of the L9 cable setup than the 5G.  Everything sounds a little more detailed, and the bass has noticeably more punch to it.


 


  i've compared my itouch 2G direct out to ipod touch 2G wtih lod to E17 and then E17 as dac through optical..and the performance..of course goes in that order.


----------



## yawny

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Just wanted to add to the E17 discussion. I have been trying out my E17+L9 cable on two sources: an iPod Touch 2G 32GB, and an iPod 5G 60GB.
> 
> I actually find that the iPod Touch is giving me better sound out of the L9 cable setup than the 5G.  Everything sounds a little more detailed, and the bass has noticeably more punch to it.


 


  I believe that they switched something around in the iPods around the 5-6th generation that makes the new ones sound significantly better. I know i've heard this before, but not sure what exactly they changed or where i heard it. Th new ones definitely sound better than the old ones.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





yawny said:


> I believe that they switched something around in the iPods around the 5-6th generation that makes the new ones sound significantly better. I know i've heard this before, but not sure what exactly they changed or where i heard it. Th new ones definitely sound better than the old ones.


 

 they changed teh DAC. i forgot which generation. i think 5.5 was the last. from then on. Wolfson was phased out for cirrus Logic. the ipod touch 1G and original iphone both have wolfson's.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i've compared my itouch 2G direct out to ipod touch 2G wtih lod to E17 and then E17 as dac through optical..and the performance..of course goes in that order.


 


  I assume you mean as optical through a computer then, lol.


----------



## Omoe

Hi Head-Fiers,
   
  I love good sound, but I am wondering if a Fiio E17 would enrich my sound experience.
  Mainly I play music from my Iphone with Sennheiser OMX 980. I love the sound, it is already is very loud. But some say they get more out if them with an amp.
  I do think their highs are a bit harsh sometimes and with the E17 I can tone the treble down.

 I also have a X-fi xtreme gamer with a Senn PC360. I do hear some white noise on the backround, so i was thinking if I could solve that with a external DAC (E17)?
  Also in the near future I would like to upgrade to a HD650.
  It will be my first Head amp.
   
  Greetz,
 O


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





omoe said:


> Hi Head-Fiers,
> 
> I love good sound, but I am wondering if a Fiio E17 would enrich my sound experience.
> Mainly I play music from my Iphone with Sennheiser OMX 980. I love the sound, it is already is very loud. But some say they get more out if them with an amp.
> ...


 

 will it erich it? it depends on what you mean by enrich. do i? yes it improves an already good experience by layering the sound and etc loudness doesn't mean good 
  Yes you can EQ it down. it's wonderful thing. on some songs. i prefer a -2, on one song, i need a +8 o_o on treble
  
  if you hear noise in the background, test it with other headphones and things. if it still has it. its probably the card's fault. yes if you don't like the white noise. the E17 will fix that. i don't have too too sensitive IEM's but in CLIEOS's review. it seems the E17 will have no problemo with them at all.
   
  We have...a  lot lot lot here on E17 with Sennhesier 600/650. i can not really tell you everything. i recommend you search this thread. everything you need to know about E17 with those two have all been posted.


----------



## Omoe

thx for the reply Bowei006.
   
   I will read this thread and more, already did some homework on the Fiio's. The omx980's are only 16ohms headphones, so really easy to drive. Was just wondering how it would/could improve these fine fine earbuds.
   
  Will read more and probably order the E17, there are so many good words about it!


----------



## gilency

Most amplifiers don't add a whole lot to IEM's with low impedance. They do sound a little better, but be prepared to be disappointed if you expect a large  increase in sound quality. At the end, it can be a hassle to carry an extra device for your "portable" setup. My 0.02.


----------



## bowei006

I think perception of improvement is different. The wider soundstage, better layering and musicality of it and most importatnly the EQ....is good enough for me. would i pay $150 for this....are you crazy? no. but if that $150 device could and does do everything that i currently need two of them (i actually do >_<) .....you know you want one.


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> So I've cancelled my order at MP4nation a while back.
> Decided to play it safe and place an order at a local shop, here in The Netherlands.
> It's a bit more expensive, but I'll be damned if I have to send it all the way back to China.
> 
> ...


 

  
  No one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm looking to get an amp for my Sony D-E555 (pcdp) and ordered the E17 to go with my Beyer DT 770 (80ohm) headphones.
 The DAC function is nice, so that I can use it with my laptop aswell, but I'm having some last-minute doubts between the E17 and the E11..(or any other portable amp for that matter). So far I get that the E11 can be more powerfull as just an amp but the E17 is sweet for all the extra EQ options and ofcourse the DAC (but a PCDP already has that).

 Anyone has any thoughts at all about a DT770 + Sony PCDP + E17 combo?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> No one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 no thoughts just some clarifications. the users and reviewers that do have the E11 do say it is more streamlined and more amp but overal the clairty of the E17,seperation, and EQ options make many E11 users just not care for the e11 anymore. the e11 does not have a more "powerful" amp. teh E17 does. 
  E11-200mW @ 32 ohms
  E17-215mW @ 32 ohms
   
  and sorry. pcdp's are out of my time. im gonna guess that stands for portable compact disk player. the last one i remember seein'g was my mother's o_o


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> no thoughts just some clarifications. the users and reviewers that do have the E11 do say it is more streamlined and more amp but overal the clairty of the E17,seperation, and EQ options make many E11 users just not care for the e11 anymore. the e11 does not have a more "powerful" amp. teh E17 does.
> E11-200mW @ 32 ohms
> E17-215mW @ 32 ohms
> 
> and sorry. pcdp's are out of my time. I'm gonna guess that stands for portable compact disk player. the last one i remember seeing was my mother's o_o


 

 Thank you for your reply and for clearing things up. So the E17 is the better choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking the EQ was a pretty damn important function, with the DT770 having massive bass at times..

 And yes, PCDP stands for Portable CD Player. I'm way into going to the local record store and looking for some cool CD's to buy which I want to play immediately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Overall a discman / pcdp should have better sound quality than say an iPod, so I think I'll love the combo, just curious if anyone has any thoughts


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> Thank you for your reply and for clearing things up. So the E17 is the better choice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 hmm im just curious on...if a pcdp even uses a DAC..hmm the data on the disk is read...is the data on the disk..not PCM? hmm so is the data then digital or analog?....hmm questions questions...there must be a DAC. and some PCDP's have an optical out. if it does you are both in luck and aren';t. you would then bel able to use the e17 as a DAC ...but then would require you to have poky wires here and there >_<
   
  i just summarized the E11 and E17 for you. Taht is the general opinion on this thread. i would suggest looking for a primary source. it's stated multiple times throughout this thread


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hmm im just curious on...if a pcdp even uses a DAC..hmm the data on the disk is read...is the data on the disk..not PCM? hmm so is the data then digital or analog?....hmm questions questions...there must be a DAC. and some PCDP's have an optical out. if it does you are both in luck and aren';t. you would then bel able to use the e17 as a DAC ...but then would require you to have poky wires here and there >_<
> 
> i just summarized the E11 and E17 for you. Taht is the general opinion on this thread. i would suggest looking for a primary source. it's stated multiple times throughout this thread


 

 a pcdp's optical-out (3.5mm jack) normally has better quality than the headphone-out. If I'll use this I think SQ would improve even more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What do you mean when you say "looking for a primary source"? Source for power, so the battery of the E17 wouldn't drain as quick?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> And yes, PCDP stands for Portable CD Player. I'm way into going to the local record store and looking for some cool CD's to buy which I want to play immediately
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I say, go for it! Have you thought about graduating to flac and/or wav files? The only time I play a compact disc anymore is when I'm burning one to my drive and converting to a flac or wav file.


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I say, go for it! Have you thought about graduating to flac and/or wav files? The only time I play a compact disc anymore is when I'm burning one to my drive and converting to a flac or wav file.


 


  Don't know if there would be any difference, sound quality-wise that is. I do have an iPod classic laying around, I'm just a bit weird I guess. I love my cd's


----------



## bowei006

I meant primary source as in getting the quote on prefering e17 over e11.
  Yes optical is better and vastly recommended. U will just happen to be my hero. Walking around with a bag of CDs. A large player with a awkwardly hanging wire connected to a weirdly tapped E17 with headphone wires dangling everywhere


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I meant primary source as in getting the quote on prefering e17 over e11.
> Yes optical is better and vastly recommended. U will just happen to be my hero. Walking around with a bag of CDs. A large player with a awkwardly hanging wire connected to a weirdly tapped E17 with headphone wires dangling everywhere


 

  
  haha yeah that's my style I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I always walk around with a messenger bag filled with scetchbooks, pencils and a "portable" player with about 4-5 cd's (picked out for the day, before leaving the house). I am expecting to get my E17 within 2 weeks from now, I'll let you know how things work out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh, and ignore my previous comment, it's been a long night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 stupid me.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> haha yeah that's my style I guess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  wow....do you use Grado's? *checks profile* i was wrong. hmm i always imagine the hipster looking people with the pcdp with Grado's if you know what i mean. hope you get and enjoy it 
   
  are you really from teh nehterlands? i find the avatar and location pretty funny.i have noticed that a lot of netherland words...kinda match english or kinda spell phonetically into the english equivalent?...


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> wow....do you use Grado's? *checks profile* i was wrong. hmm i always imagine the hipster looking people with the pcdp with Grado's if you know what i mean. hope you get and enjoy it
> 
> are you really from teh nehterlands? i find the avatar and location pretty funny.i have noticed that a lot of netherland words...kinda match english or kinda spell phonetically into the english equivalent?...


 

 Did you just call me a hipster? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok yeah, I admit that my drawings (like the one as my avatar) are a bit emo and with this whole situation and all I do sound kind of hipster. But...uhr... NO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fortunately I do not look in any way like a hipster or relate to that whole "lifestyle" or whatever you wanna call it. I just love Cd's, can't explain it..
   
  Is Grado your typical hipster headphone? Wow, some hipsters you have! Most people here don't even bother to switch to anything better than those awful i-pod buds.
 Grado's seem nice, but I wouldn't wanna walk around with them, let alone sitting on the bus (with them being open cans, bothering people with your music).
   
  Why yes, I am really from the Netherlands and except for weed being legal, it's not that great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not planning on living here my entire life.
  And I guess the Dutch language is pretty similar is some ways to English. Although most dutch people have a rather dumb accent when talking English.
   
  (sorry for the whole off-topic conversation, people)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> Did you just call me a hipster?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Grado's are taken out a lot. and thanks for the info man on Netherlands 
   
  Well I hope you get the E17 soon and report back to tell us how it works with the PCDP's


----------



## C3pro

Anyone know when the pre-order #2 is supposed to ship out?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





c3pro said:


> Anyone know when the pre-order #2 is supposed to ship out?


 


  it's supposed to ship mid february to a couple days after. tehy can't ship out a couple hundred E17's in a day..espeically right wyhen they get it. if you chose not to choose FED EX shipping. it will arrive abotu 2-3 weeks after shipping. this is if you choose MP4nation. american distro's are expected to receive shipments late february.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> tehy can't ship out a couple hundred E17's in a day..espeically right wyhen they get it.


 

  
  Why not? I don't see a problem with that.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Why not? I don't see a problem with that.


 


  even with smaller people like Micca and even Amazon i have seen a period of give or take 1 day to 2 days for actually shipping out.  
   
  i just checked the date. NOW i know why i've been answering or hearing about MP4nation release date pretty frequently again. it's almost...mid february. lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i bet a couple hundred of you are just waiting to receive that email for order shipment  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just updated my *E17 photo gallery* http://imgur.com/a/bYc9X#0 (new pictures near the bottom)anybody want to take a look at the E17 and or comment on my photography skills (i have none) are free too. yes. i just like taking random photo's. and yes. These photo's looked better on my retina screen....my 23" 1080p ..er(ASUS Gaming monitor, also MLG Monitor 2011, i bought it before it became MLG official 2011 monitor) makes it all grainy(i know. monitors don't make grain) and with recessed colors


----------



## SoundDreamer

Since this will be my first dac/headphone amp, I've been doing some research into the design of these things and been reading up on understanding what asynchronous usb transfer mode is and why it's so important. Unfortunately, it looks like the E17 uses an older usb interface and therefore asynchronous is not possible.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Since this will be my first dac/headphone amp, I've been doing some research into the design of these things and been reading up on understanding what asynchronous usb transfer mode is and why it's so important. Unfortunately, it looks like the E17 uses an older usb interface and therefore asynchronous is not possible.


 

 well that's a bummer. but you know what my wordly experience has taught me. your devices could not have this and that. and this and that. but in the end of the day..it didn't ever matter nor change the sound.... this is $150 and people with more expensive things didn't have anything to say...so really. sure USB can't do 192KHz. sure there's a bit of buzzing. yes an analog dial would be pretty sweet...but when the day's over...you know. it's like your computer having PCIE 2 and PCIE3 or the new SATA 6 or STA 3. tests have concluded. no difference for right now.because other things are limiting it.


----------



## SoundDreamer

I'm not worried whether it can do 192 or not, I'm concerned about how much jitter the interface is producing.


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I'm not worried whether it can do 192 or not, I'm concerned about how much jitter the interface is producing.


 


  What I read here in this forum, is that jitter is not audible, only if excessive. Sorry, cannot recall, where exactly I read this.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I'm not worried whether it can do 192 or not, I'm concerned about how much jitter the interface is producing.


 


  well everyone now knows SoundDreamer..you want your sound and want it fresh. i bet a lot of people are waiting for how you think of the E17...let's see waht you think of it. im interested as well 
   
  now guys. *DON'T GET EXCITED WHEN YOU SEE THIS*. IT's not actualy as godly as the you might think it is.bc they don't have it in stock yet and if you have mp4nation with fed ex shipping..that will probably be faster
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=839353&Q=&is=REG&A=details


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> now guys. *DON'T GET EXCITED WHEN YOU SEE THIS*. IT's not actually as godly as the you might think it is.bc they don't have it in stock yet and if you have mp4nation with fed ex shipping..that will probably be faster
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=839353&Q=&is=REG&A=details


 
   
  No worries. I noticed this in the other Thread. B&H is where I just purchased my Sennheiser replacement pads. I had no idea they sold Fiio. I'm just as content with mp4nation. Plus, it should arrive faster.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by SoundDreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Since this will be my first dac/headphone amp, I've been doing some research into the design of these things and been reading up on understanding what asynchronous usb transfer mode is and why it's so important. Unfortunately, it looks like the E17 uses an older usb interface and therefore asynchronous is not possible.





   
  While an asynchronous transfer will help in reducing jitter, it doesn't necessarily mean better sound.  As mentioned previously, I have a Headamp Pico which uses an ASRC (aychronous sample rate converter) in its design. The ASRC (AD1896) design used in the Pico is often called a 'jitter-free' design, but I can attest that the Pico DAC design doesn't sound $350 better than the E17, at least to my ears.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by SoundDreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm not worried whether it can do 192 or not, I'm concerned about how much jitter the interface is producing.






  As mentioned by other users, jitter doesn't play the same role in today's digital music age. It is very unusual to actually hear jitter unless you have really special hearing. In my personal impression, the E17 doesn't suffer at all by using an ASRC free design.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> No worries. I noticed this in the other Thread. B&H is where I just purchased my Sennheiser replacement pads. I had no idea they sold Fiio. I'm just as content with mp4nation. Plus, it should arrive faster.


 


  i realized a while ago. what i didn't know was that they had better prices than Amazon at times. $10 for L9 LOD instead of $15


  Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> While an asynchronous transfer will help in reducing jitter, it doesn't necessarily mean better sound.  As mentioned previously, I have a Headamp Pico which uses an ASRC (aychronous sample rate converter) in its design. The ASRC (AD1896) design used in the Pico is often called a 'jitter-free' design, but I can attest that the Pico DAC design doesn't sound $350 better than the E17, at least to my ears.
> 
> 
> As mentioned by other users, jitter doesn't play the same role in today's digital music age. It is very unusual to actually hear jitter unless you have really special hearing. In my personal impression, the E17 doesn't suffer at all by using an ASRC free design.


 


  haha thanks for backing me up Agent XXL. have you heard many DACs that use the WM8740. im thinking of using the E17 with L7 as an DAC only for a dedicated amp...like the Schiit Asgard. some people may look at me thinking..fiio with something so expensive and laugh in my face. but with me bieng so active on this thread..i have yet to hear many people telling the WM8740 in the E17 completley apart from others used in dedicated DAC's in much much more expensive units.
   
   
  im also looking to get an HD650 when the price drops back down to $300


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> haha thanks for backing me up Agent XXL. have you heard many DACs that use the WM8740. im thinking of using the E17 with L7 as an DAC only for a dedicated amp...like the Schiit Asgard. some people may look at me thinking..fiio with something so expensive and laugh in my face. but with me bieng so active on this thread..i have yet to hear many people telling the WM8740 in the E17 completley apart from others used in dedicated DAC's in much much more expensive units.
> 
> 
> im also looking to get an HD650 when the price drops back down to $300


 

 Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that there aren't differences between the various DACs I've heard that use the WM8740 (or it's siblings, the 8741 and 8742). What I am saying, and probably too often in this thread, is that for the $150 price point of the E17 you really can't go wrong. There may be products from other vendors on the market now or in the near future that rival the E17, but the other products that sell for hundreds more now have something to keep an eye and ear on. 
   
  Re: the HD650 dropping to $300 - unfortunately, not if Sennheiser has their way. I'm looking for some HD800s myself, and alas it appears that dealers are pretty much abiding by Sennheisers suggested retail pricing. I'm watching the used market too, but even there it seems that the resale prices have risen. Only time will tell.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that there aren't differences between the various DACs I've heard that use the WM8740 (or it's siblings, the 8741 and 8742). What I am saying, and probably too often in this thread, is that for the $150 price point of the E17 you really can't go wrong. There may be products from other vendors on the market now or in the near future that rival the E17, but the other products that sell for hundreds more now have something to keep an eye and ear on.
> 
> Re: the HD650 dropping to $300 - unfortunately, not if Sennheiser has their way. I'm looking for some HD800s myself, and alas it appears that dealers are pretty much abiding by Sennheisers suggested retail pricing. I'm watching the used market too, but even there it seems that the resale prices have risen. Only time will tell.


 

 Yeah that's what i meant. i know those DAC's and things make a difference...but my music is mainly mainstream and very hard to tell...so.....in terms of price to performance. ill stick with my E17. thanks
   
  The HD650 has dropped to $300 to $400 periodically throughout history >_< im hoping to get one..and yes. i know what you mean. but hey. if it's happened before. it could happen again! 
   
  and guys. im going to bet that in a couple months. the MSRP of the FiiO E17 will be* $130* or less. Current MSRP in the U.S is $140. Micca store and other's just decided to set it at that and BH followed Suit. and as well all have seen. FiiO products take a small price drop more or less....think abotu this guys..this product for $130... does that not just make it sweeter or what.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> While an asynchronous transfer will help in reducing jitter, it doesn't necessarily mean better sound.  As mentioned previously, I have a Headamp Pico which uses an ASRC (aychronous sample rate converter) in its design. The ASRC (AD1896) design used in the Pico is often called a 'jitter-free' design, but I can attest that the Pico DAC design doesn't sound $350 better than the E17, at least to my ears.
> 
> 
> As mentioned by other users, jitter doesn't play the same role in today's digital music age. It is very unusual to actually hear jitter unless you have really special hearing. In my personal impression, the E17 doesn't suffer at all by using an ASRC free design.


 

 Thanks for the feedback! You may not be hearing jitter (I did in the early years of digital) in your setup but someone else's setup could sound different. Right now, I will take the info with a grain of salt and be the judge of how good the E17 sounds within my setup when it arrives.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Thanks for the feedback! You may not be hearing jitter (I did in the early years of digital) in your setup but someone else's setup could sound different.


 


  Welll. other than buzzing caused by electrical interfernace from an electrical wire at first(my headphone and optical wire which has a metal mesh conducted it..not E17) and my itouch..i don't hear any jitter. my itouch whenever the volume gets turned up high..on any device, amp, headphones using LOD. you can hear a ch ch ch ch ch ch like a refresh rate sound. it's not there on any other apple device i have just saying..only when the screen is powered on though...and this is my fault. my ipod has been dropped many times. many cracks... and other than when you start raising the volume very fast you get some..some small hiss which quickly gets eliminated(only audble if song is not playing)..no problems really. i don't use it with cellphone..and my itouch does not have bluetooth or wifi enabled..so i don't get electrical interferance, jitter, other sounds when i am out :/


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that there aren't differences between the various DACs I've heard that use the WM8740 (or it's siblings, the 8741 and 8742).


 
   
  What are the differences between these DAC models? Is the WM8740 the best DAC Wolfson makes?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> What are the differences between these DAC models? Is the WM8740 the best DAC Wolfson makes?


 


http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/

   
  from what i can see. the WM8740 is the second best. the 8741 is the best. the 8742 is a regular DAC but with superior DSD support...but it has a better SNR than WM8740...but it has/needs more power and for some reason doesn't get the High performance tag..so im just gonna say the WM8740 is second with the 8741 being the best with the 8742 being 3rd place in sound....capiche?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Thanks for the feedback! You may not be hearing jitter (I did in the early years of digital) in your setup but someone else's setup could sound different. Right now, I will take the info with a grain of salt and be the judge of how good the E17 sounds within my setup when it arrives.


 
   
  And that's how everyone really needs to approach this - you have to evaluate the product in your environment, using your gear/setup, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, your ears!
   
  Anything you read in a review, a forum or even heard word of mouth can only be taken as someone elses opinion. Admittedly the more positive reviews and comments your hear, the more likely the resultant product will be similar in your environment.
   
  Good luck when you get your E17 - hopefully you'll be every bit as happy with yours as the majority of us are with ours!  For $150 or less, it's quite an amazing product.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/
> 
> 
> from what i can see. the WM8740 is the second best. the 8741 is the best. the 8742 is a regular DAC but with superior DSD support...but it has a better SNR than WM8740...but it has/needs more power and for some reason doesn't get the High performance tag..so im just gonna say the WM8740 is second with the 8741 being the best with the 8742 being 3rd place in sound....capiche?


 

 Not quite right - the WM8741 and 8742 are the more feature-laden siblings, with the main difference between them and the 8740 being that they both have built-in selectable digital filters that alter frequency response:
   
  - Filter C has the most extension, but also comes with the sharpest cutoff.
 - Filter B trades some top end extension for a more gradual cutoff.
 - Filter A is the compromise between C and B.
   
  The WM8741 is the most powerful, considered 'very high performance' compared to the 'high performance' WM8740 and 8742, with the WM8742 offering the additional filters mentioned above.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Not quite right - the WM8741 and 8742 are the more feature-laden siblings, with the main difference between them and the 8740 being that they both have built-in selectable digital filters that alter frequency response:
> 
> - Filter C has the most extension, but also comes with the sharpest cutoff.
> - Filter B trades some top end extension for a more gradual cutoff.
> ...


 

 i thought that was exactly what i implied?
   
  we passed this topic a while ago but i thought why not:
  I have unit 285 here  the serial says BK and as we have seen from other FiiO products...there are white ones....wow. that's pretty sexy


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i thought that was exactly what i implied?


 

 As I said, not quite - you said that 8740 was 2nd and 8742 was 3rd in sound when they are actually pretty much identical. The 8742 wins on features by having the built-in digital filters (and the optional interface to external industry standard filters).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> As I said, not quite - you said that 8740 was 2nd and 8742 was 3rd in sound when they are actually pretty much identical. The 8742 wins on features by having the built-in digital filters (and the optional interface to external industry standard filters).


 
   
   


> so im just gonna say the WM8740 is second with the 8741 being the best with the 8742 being 3rd place in sound....capiche?


 
   

  your stance is also a little iffy. and so was mine see. i was unsure because both were very much had similar things so i just took the high performance tag on the 8740 as 2nd place and as we all know. fiio WAS going to use the 8741...but as you can also see....too much power. the E17 has 50% more power than the E7..the E7 could do 80 hours. the e17 could do 15 hours..even with 50% bigger battery.....12H or 10H with 8741 then o_o...hmm


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> your stance is also a little iffy.


 

 If you're going to say my stance is iffy, at least elaborate on what you think was iffy. I'm not going to argue semantics - I was just trying to point out that what you said about the 8740 vs 8742 wasn't quite right. 
   
  As for how it applies to the E17, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. You and I both like it and hope that others are as happy with the WM8740 implementation that Fiio used.


----------



## bowei006

Me? I just meant that as we arent wolfson empoyees we wont have all the info so we can both only make assumptions based off the data. I made  quick 20 second one and u corrected me by looking deeper and at other things. And of course it doesnt matter. But one could wonder. If my car had  4.5l or 5l engine. Things like that


----------



## tme110

as has already been mentioned in this thread, the implemintation of the chip makes a larger impact than the actual chip anyway.  You can't tell the sound or quaility just by knowing the chip used.  Though if you have something that uses multiple BB 1704UK chip that cost $50 each then you hope it's pretty high end.


----------



## dorino

A higher end chip matters _when everything is done correctly_. If you flux up the design, you flux up the design.


----------



## jono454

Let's say i use the e17 solely as a DAC and i picked up a tube amp such as a Little Dot MKIII or a Schiit Valhalla and paired it up with a DT990/600. Do you guys think this would be a good idea or would it be better to get a desktop DAC instead?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Alright! You two (AgentXXL & bowei006) are bringing it all back to me now. The flagship (at the time) Pioneer SC-09 AVR used the WM8741 and the SC-07 (which I have) uses the WM8740. The WM8741 is the chip that does DSD direct wheras the WM8740 doesn't. They are both very similar in sound quality.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Alright! You two (AgentXXL & bowei006) are bringing it all back to me now. The flagship (at the time) Pioneer SC-09 AVR used the WM8741 and the SC-07 (which I have) uses the WM8740. The WM8741 is the chip that does DSD direct wheras the WM8740 doesn't. They are both very similar in sound quality.


 

 hahah really. in the end...when the days over. it's gonna be hard to tell unless you have both. and even then. you won't be able to tell if it's just the DAC that's causing that small sound change and not the amp(or if you bypass it) or other components.
   


  Quote: 





dorino said:


> A higher end chip matters _when everything is done correctly_. If you flux up the design, you flux up the design.


 

 yep. we've mentioned this many times
   


  Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Let's say i use the e17 solely as a DAC and i picked up a tube amp such as a Little Dot MKIII or a Schiit Valhalla and paired it up with a DT990/600. Do you guys think this would be a good idea or would it be better to get a desktop DAC instead?


 

 that's what im thinking of doing. many people have stated that other DAC's are great....but really....small sound changes not worth the money. AND i need to use the e17 portably as well and can't bother spending another $200 for the same chip really.
   
   
   
  @AgentXXL
  I'm sorry if i offended you. Head-Fi is a place for discussion and opinions where others can go and correct others like stated in the T.O.S. And so my appology to you AgentXXL. You are a fine member of Head-Fi with much experience and great comments and thoughts on the products. I'm sorry if it seems like this i'm just here to take the thread someplace else. I am on Head-Fi a lot and will always click on and read my notifications. Originally I was just to answer questions. But I guess I've been on too much. I am sorry if I appeared to be ignorantly attacking you or something.  I will read my wording from now on. I typed most of the Wolfson comments on the mobile(not this time). And I will now also take a step back now and answer and only answer user questions that have not been answered yet. Thank you members of Head-Fi for this wonderful oppurtunity at a discussion-ful thread. I take my leave now.


----------



## TREACHER0US

iBasso D7 vs FiiO E17?
   
  I'll be using IEM ViSang R03 (Brainwavz M2). This setup will be for my laptop.
   
  For my desktop I currently use a NuForce HDP with Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm and I love the neutral sound.
   
  Gonna mostly be using it for gaming and watching movies.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> If you're going to say my stance is iffy, at least elaborate on what you think was iffy. I'm not going to argue semantics - I was just trying to point out that what you said about the 8740 vs 8742 wasn't quite right.
> 
> As for how it applies to the E17, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. You and I both like it and hope that others are as happy with the WM8740 implementation that Fiio used.


 

 Don't worry too much about WM8740 vs WM8741. There are reports from electronic engineer that the two are very close in performance as the inner design of the chips aren't as different as Wolfson wants people to believe. The price however is, so you can imagine why Wolfson are pushing the WM8741 as much as they can.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Something need to clarify:
   
  1, WM8741 or other famous DAC chip is not designed to portable use. of course you can see some portable devices do used WM8741, ES9018 or CS4398, but you all can see that all they have very limited battery life and the size is quite big. 
   
  2, DAC chip is the most important parts inside a DAC products , but DAC chip does not means everything, but of course it will have better SQ if it is from the same company/brand or the same engineer because the implement will keep at the same level. 
   
  3, FiiO will like to use some mature technical but not the newest technical because it is hard to control the quality, especially we are become a global brand and selling all over the world.


----------



## TREACHER0US

Disreguard my post. I just bought the iBasso D7.


----------



## bjornb

Quote: 





orangetree said:


> Wow, I was making dinner on the other side of my apartment when I heard something that sounded like a fireplace crackling at my desk. I ran over to hear my headphones popping and hissing while plugged into the E9. I unplugged everything and undocked the E17. I've put everything back in and it seems to be fine.


 

 Same has happened on mine twice the first day or so when connected to my laptop using USB. Unplugging and reinserting the USB plug fixed the problem.
  It has not reoccured since or when using it in AUX mode (analog input).


----------



## Sysagent

Quote: 





treacher0us said:


> Disreguard my post. I just bought the iBasso D7.


 


 How you finding it?


----------



## dexvx

Any word on mp4nation's "mid-feb" shipment for the e17?


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Any word on mp4nation's "mid-feb" shipment for the e17?


 

 still expecting it.


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Any word on mp4nation's "mid-feb" shipment for the e17?


 


  I am one of those who ordered the first batch preorder and was one of those unlucky people who did not get it  now waiting for the second batch...
   
  no notification mail yet.


----------



## AltairDusk

Unfortunately 94 pages is too long for me to read through the entire thread so forgive me if this has been answered already.  Did FiiO ever officially address the rattling issue that was reported?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





sysagent said:


> How you finding it?


 

 Probably, here: http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=77
   
  I'm starting to look at this brand a little closer now.


  Quote: 





rafa said:


> I am one of those who ordered the first batch preorder and was one of those unlucky people who did not get it  now waiting for the second batch...
> 
> no notification mail yet.


 
   
  I'm afraid that this may happen to the people on the second batch order.


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Probably, here: http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=77
> 
> I'm starting to look at this brand a little closer now.
> 
> I'm afraid that this may happen to the people on the second batch order.


 

 Let's hope this does not happen to them, because waiting sucks.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





rafa said:


> Let's hope this does not happen to them, because waiting sucks.


 

 I still plan on sticking with my Pre-Order. If I'm one of the unlucky ones with the second batch, I may think about another brand because I don't plan on waiting until the end of March (?) for the 3rd batch.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Does anyone know if there are capacitors in the signal path on the E17? I would assume, no, but I know it's not good to assume. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Penarin

Arg.  I haven't had my E7 for all that long, and now something new is coming along.


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I still plan on sticking with my Pre-Order. If I'm one of the unlucky ones with the second batch, I may think about another brand because I don't plan on waiting until the end of March (?) for the 3rd batch.


 


  No need to think about it. Maybe mp4nation ordered enough for the second preorder. => you know learning effect


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @AgentXXL
> I'm sorry if i offended you. Head-Fi is a place for discussion and opinions where others can go and correct others like stated in the T.O.S. And so my appology to you AgentXXL. You are a fine member of Head-Fi with much experience and great comments and thoughts on the products. I'm sorry if it seems like this i'm just here to take the thread someplace else. I am on Head-Fi a lot and will always click on and read my notifications. Originally I was just to answer questions. But I guess I've been on too much. I am sorry if I appeared to be ignorantly attacking you or something.  I will read my wording from now on. I typed most of the Wolfson comments on the mobile(not this time). And I will now also take a step back now and answer and only answer user questions that have not been answered yet. Thank you members of Head-Fi for this wonderful oppurtunity at a discussion-ful thread. I take my leave now.


 
   
  bowei006,
   
  Thanks for taking my private comments to heart. I accept your apology, even though I would have preferred it remain private between you and I. As you have chosen to make it public, I'll also apologize if I sounded harsh. As mentioned a week ago, I've been under the weather and should have stayed offline until I fully regained my health. I'll blame part of my actions on the medication I've been taking but also realize that what we say when 'unburdened' by our mental filters is usually what we mean.
   
  It was not my intention to have you 'take the blame for hogging the thread' - I'm equally as guilty. You too have offered a great deal of assistance to users of the forum and should be commended for it. Disregard most of my comments, but I too will be taking a step back from the forum for a while. I'll still keep an eye on the thread and try to add new comments when they apply, but I've repeated myself often enough.
   
  Hopefully all of the others reading this will realize that we can all let our emotions take over every so often. Unfortunately it's usually not a good thing when it does. Here's hoping that other new owners of the E17 get as much out of it as we have, albeit without having to publicly apologize for foolish comments. Sorry everyone - enjoy your new toys!


----------



## jono454

^ i love how majority of people on head-fi are civil and orderly compared to other threads. It's nice to be able to interact with people who know how to make sense of situations rather than blatantly jump into conclusions with cap locks on.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Hopefully all of the others reading this will realize that we can all let our emotions take over every so often. Unfortunately it's usually not a good thing when it does. Here's hoping that other new owners of the E17 get as much out of it as we have, albeit without having to publicly apologize for foolish comments. Sorry everyone - enjoy your new toys!


 
   
  So, what you're trying to say, is that you have Tourette's Syndrome?


----------



## Parall3l

So the E17 is going to come to me at the mid of March ? I'm starting to get angry. I doubt I'll be able to trust Mp4Nation again.
  Quote: 





>


 
MP4Nation Start of March right now, but we have a few units coming tomorrow but those will be for the first preorder people who didn't get their orders shipped.
   
  At least the people who missed out on the first preorder will get their hands on them.


----------



## JamesFiiO

We just shipped some E17 to MP4nation, and will ship some to other customer too on this week. That is all in the first batch. the second batch will be available in March.


----------



## lshalamb

march? xD
  mp4nation's website hasnt changed the info yet. if they sent me an email with march date, im cancelling it.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> march? xD
> mp4nation's website hasnt changed the info yet. if they sent me an email with march date, im cancelling it.


 


  Check their facebook


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





parall3l said:


> So the E17 is going to come to me at the mid of March ? I'm starting to get angry. I doubt I'll be able to trust Mp4Nation again.


 
   
   
"MP4Nation Start of March right now, but we have a few units coming tomorrow but those will be for the first preorder people who didn't get their orders shipped."
   
   

 You are kidding me, where did you read this? Couldn't see any mention on facebook.
   
  If that's really the case then it's an absolute joke.
   
  What is so difficult? If Fiio told them they were to recieve let's say 2000 units, then they should have simply allowed 2000 people to register their details and place a pre-order.
   
  They should not be allowed to demand payment for an order that cannot be fulfilled.

 I'm getting sick of waiting around now after having to return my E10 back in december due to faulty jack.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





geak said:


>


 
   
"MP4Nation Start of March right now, but we have a few units coming tomorrow but those will be for the first preorder people who didn't get their orders shipped."
   
   

 You are kidding me, where did you read this? Couldn't see any mention on facebook.
   
  Its in the everyone section



   George Iswara

 e 17... e 17... e 17... e17... e17... any updates?  Like​ ·  · Yesterday at 7:37pm ·  
  

 

     


MP4Nation Start of March right now, but we have a few units coming tomorrow but those will be for the first preorder people who didn't get their orders shipped.


----------



## mrAdrian

Guess who asked them that? 
  
  Quote: 





parall3l said:


> So the E17 is going to come to me at the mid of March ? I'm starting to get angry. I doubt I'll be able to trust Mp4Nation again.


 
   
MP4Nation Start of March right now, but we have a few units coming tomorrow but those will be for the first preorder people who didn't get their orders shipped.
   
  At least the people who missed out on the first preorder will get their hands on them.


----------



## skyline315

I will admit I'm getting a bit impatient.  Starting to look at alternatives like the HUD-MX1, etc.


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We just shipped some E17 to MP4nation, and will ship some to other customer too on this week. That is all in the first batch. the second batch will be available in March.


 


   
  I know Fiio and mp4nation have different definitions on what the first / second preorder batches are. Is there any way to find out if our preorders will ship this month or next? I really don't want to wait until next month


----------



## duyu

I've used the E17+E9 after the first charging for over 30hours now.
  I've turned off the USB charging of E17, and turn off the screen while listening.
   
  Now, the E17 displays that it still has 4/5 of the battery power.
  It seems that if we only use the DAC function, it is really energy saving...
  Really no need to turn the USB charging on, for E17+E9 users.


----------



## gEaK

Yeah it's getting ridiculous.
   
*Feiao* can you give us some confirmation please:
   
  How many units roughly are you sending to mp4nation? I want to know what the chances are of me getting my pre-order fulfilled or whether I should just give up.
   
  Which other online retailers are you sending stock to? I keep checking the ones listed on your website but nowhere has it in stock, most don't even have the product listed.
   
  When will it be available on Amazon UK again? I would much rather purchase from my own region but I'm also looking for the quickest option.
   
   
  I realise you are busy but many people appear to be losing faith, any help you could offer with these queries would be much appreciated.


----------



## RAFA

Got my FEDEX-tracking number from MP4nation  (I am one of those first preorder guys)


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





rafa said:


> Got my FEDEX-tracking number from MP4nation  (I am one of those first preorder guys)


 


   
  I didn't put my order in until the 30th  I have a feeling I won't get mine until March


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





etrips said:


> I didn't put my order in until the 30th  I have a feeling I won't get mine until March


 


  Hmm, be optimistic. No one knows, how many MP4nation got from fiio and how many were ordered. Did you order with FEDEX or normal shipping?


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





etrips said:


> I didn't put my order in until the 30th  I have a feeling I won't get mine until March


 


  I ordered mine on the 23rd. I sent them a Ticket Request asking them what the status is on my order. If they give me a later date or the run around, I will cancel my order.


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





rafa said:


> Hmm, be optimistic. No one knows, how many MP4nation got from fiio and how many were ordered. Did you order with FEDEX or normal shipping?


 

 FedEx of course!


----------



## tme110

The e17 has been in the works for a loooongggg time
  
  Quote: 





penarin said:


> Arg.  I haven't had my E7 for all that long, and now something new is coming along.


----------



## nightgost

I pre-order from mp4nation in 6th fev, will post when mail notification arrives.
  subscribed


----------



## tim3320070

This is a real trend with them unfortunately. Develop patience or find a different seller.


----------



## mrAdrian

Ordered on the 12th of Jan... Still haven't received anything from them yet.


----------



## lshalamb

Damn what a sad story. Almost canceled my order but I can't figure out what to buy since any other product will not be delivered untill the beginning of march. Dilemma?


----------



## steveb

I already have my e9 so I'll just wait.  Patience is something I need to work on when it comes to audio gear and gadgets in general anyway.  
   
  Still, some of you should learn that expected implies some degree of uncertainty, especially dealing with a smaller manufacturer.


----------



## Sonnyt

Oh man, I was really hoping I get mine sometime soon - but since I pre-ordered on 30th, I guess I should just stop thinking about it. I am really contemplating on cancelling it if I don't get any word from them by the end of Feb.


----------



## Parall3l

I pre-ordered on the 11th


----------



## SoundDreamer

I received my reply to my question regarding a date on my order. Here is the response:
   
   
   


> Hello,
> 
> We are expecting the FiiO E17 stock by the first week of March. We will mail out your order as soon as we receive the stock.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I replied back informing them that I wanted a refund because I was ordering with the assumption that delivery would be the middle of February. I noticed they changed the date on their Website. Let's see how long it takes them to issue a refund. Gee, I should have charged them interest for keeping my money.


----------



## justin w.

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> My impression is that the E17 does a very admirable job as a DAC by itself, especially at the price point. I also own a Headamp Pico which uses the same WM8740 chip, but with a different implementation that sells as a DAC only version for $400 US, or as a DAC/amp version for $500. I have the DAC/amp version and while it does have a slightly more open soundstage, the DAC implementation on the E17 is pretty damn close! And at a savings of $350 for the full DAC/amp version, it's even more impressive.
> 
> I've also played with a $650 Cambridge DacMagic Plus, which uses 2 WM8740 chips in its implementation, and is definitely a dedicated desktop DAC. The DacMagic Plus has quite a different feature set when compared to the E17 or the Pico. Most interesting though is that when compared side by side with the Headamp Pico, I couldn't really tell the difference between the two DACs. Technically, by specifications, the DacMagic Plus is superior, but to my ears in a listening comparison, I couldn't really hear the difference when both were configured similarly.
> 
> The extra features of the DacMagic Plus may justify its price for some, but for me who wants to use a simple USB DAC with my lossless audio collection, the E17 is  more than satisfying - it's downright delicious!


 

 The Pico USB DAC is actually $299, not $400


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





geak said:


> Yeah it's getting ridiculous.
> 
> *Feiao* can you give us some confirmation please:
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry, we try to total open but it will be better answered by Mp4nation. we will update the information about the shipment of ALPEN on our website and facebook, forum . 
   
  and it will be better to buy from local dealer and plz just give us some times, we had already produced about 900 ALPEN, for first batch , it is not bad at all.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Cancelled my E17 order from mp4nation and received a refund in a timely manner. I'm off to order the iBasso D7 that includes (what I really want - albeit, more money) Asynchronous USB transfer.


----------



## veracocha

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Sorry, we try to total open but it will be better answered by Mp4nation. we will update the information about the shipment of ALPEN on our website and facebook, forum .
> 
> and it will be better to buy from local dealer and plz just give us some times, we had already produced about 900 ALPEN, for first batch , it is not bad at all.


 


  Hi ,
   
  When will we see Fiio e17 " in stock " status on your site ?


----------



## ebmp19

Well I have had a quite funny experience with mp4nation support chat. I asked them whether the middle of February was the time it would arrive at my house approximately, or when it would arrive at their warehouse. They informed me that it would be delayed until march. I said that it was really annoying how I ordered it the day it came out for pre-order and I didn't get it in the first batch so I'm delayed for two months. I asked the representative how many people ordered it on the first day. He/She then asked me for the order number. I gave the order number to Him/Her, and mysteriously a minute after, I received an email with the shipping details saying that it had been picked up just after I told the rep my order number. He/She then told me that the shipping details had been emailed to me today and that it had been sent. Either this is some kind of extremely well timed complaint corresponding exactly to the time that orders where picked up by the shipping company, or more likely, the rep turned around, took one of the shelf, and posted it off. I guess the date on the website is to stop people from ordering them unless they really don't care when it turns up, and they will send them out if you complain. I am less annoyed by this delay. BTW @Feiao maybe you need another factory or somthing.... you don't seem to meet demand very well. If it keeps going at this rate you will release the E117 before people get theirs.


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Sorry, we try to total open but it will be better answered by Mp4nation.


 


  Reply from mp4nation:
   
   
  "Hi Jay
  
*I am sorry that the E17 are delayed but the issue with their production is beyond our control.*
  
 On the E17 product page we clearly state that preorders are subject to delay. Should customers NOT want to wait then they should place orders when the item is in stock.
  
 Although orders are being taken, the orders will be fulfilled when the items are in stock.
  
 If you have an order with us and want to cancel your order then reply back confirming your order number and that you want to cancel and get a refund, we will promptly issue a refund."
   
   
   
  While I still find it very poor that they take customers money to make them wait around indefinately for an order that may not be fulfilled, they appear to be saying that Fiio is at fault here due to not producing the numbers on time.
   
  Very disappointed all round to be honest, funny how this thread is turning out though..


----------



## SouthernBoy

Quote: 





geak said:


> Reply from mp4nation:
> 
> 
> "Hi Jay
> ...


 

 I wonder if this is an issue of either Fiio not anticipating the demand and, therefore, not ramping-up production quickly enough, or Fiio's suppliers having issues meeting demand, effecting the supply chain all the way through to mp4nation.  Kinda reminds me of the Nintendo Wii situation when they launched and spent forever unable to meet demand.  This is just speculation on my part.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Cancelled my E17 order from mp4nation and received a refund in a timely manner. I'm off to order the iBasso D7 that includes (what I really want - albeit, more money) Asynchronous USB transfer.


 

 That's not going to be important unless you're dealing with 192 audio, IMO.


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





dorino said:


> That's not going to be important unless you're dealing with 192 audio, IMO.


 


 Probably not, but the D7 certainly looks nice.


----------



## RodSmith

I've switched to a D7 (which iBasso say is shipping tomorrow!) because it has 24/192 over usb (only intend to use it with a laptop) and I got sick of waiting.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





dorino said:


> That's not going to be important unless you're dealing with 192 audio, IMO.


 

 Really? You may need to read up on how important Asynchronous USB is.


----------



## Souji

Micca Store tweeted this earlier today!
   
  "FiiO E17 - Second batch on their way, will continue with additional tweet updates daily. Second batch will have same bundled items as first."


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Really? You may need to read up on how important Asynchronous USB is.


 

 You've never owned a headphone amp before, right? The "feature" was a must-have and a lot of hifi blogs advertised it as this extremely important, must-have end-all. The fact is, the difference in how you transmit over USB is very, _very_ minimal.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





souji said:


> Micca Store tweeted this earlier today!
> 
> "FiiO E17 - Second batch on their way, will continue with additional tweet updates daily. Second batch will have same bundled items as first."


 
   
  This likely means similar for MP4Nation. Hopefully!


----------



## lshalamb

Hate to disappoint you but I have opened a ticket yesterday on mp4nation and the response from CSR was that they truly delay 2nd batch untill early March. he also inquired if I want to cancel my order... I'm not sure about iBasso D7 for my HD600s but ... yea.. dont know


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Hate to disappoint you but I have opened a ticket yesterday on mp4nation and the response from CSR was that they truly delay 2nd batch untill early March. he also inquired if I want to cancel my order... I'm not sure about iBasso D7 for my HD600s but ... yea.. dont know


 

 That's disappointing. It's worth noting, however, _FiiO_ said the second batch wil be delayed until early March, too, _but_ that there were two shipments in the first batch.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





dorino said:


> You've never owned a headphone amp before, right? The "feature" was a must-have and a lot of hifi blogs advertised it as this extremely important, must-have end-all. The fact is, the difference in how you transmit over USB is very, _very_ minimal.


 

 Nice try. Spinning will get you nowhere. USB is one of the worst methods for transporting audio.


----------



## dorino

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Nice try. Spinning will get you nowhere. USB is one of the worst methods for transporting audio.


 

 Yes, it is. It's also not very bad. My point stands.


----------



## AstralStorm

Huh, this DAC and amp are quite superb. According to cursory measurements (can't take the graphs due to silly NDA) these are truly E7 improved.
  Esp. jitter and THD+N are better, everything is as linear as it should be, for all 16 Ohm, 32 Ohm, 80 Ohm and 300 Ohm loads.
  SNR is as advertised, unlike certain other "24-bit" DACs.
   
  Gain slightly worses THD+N, but it's still below 0.01% everywhere. Oh, and unlike E7, I couldn't get it to clip with my test gear.
  Crosschannel bleed is more than 20 dB better too at highest end, which does improve imaging.
   
  Not to mention usability is far higher due to 1) switchable input sources 2) better sockets 3) hold latch. Perhaps the only thing that's worth improving is putting an even larger Li-Ion cell inside - shouldn't be too heavy or too large with, say, 2500 mAh. There could also be input detection in the input switch, so that it'd skip over silent inputs, unless everything was silent. (might be hard to implement for AUX though)
   
  Shell seems somewhat sturdier than E7 too. bezels, smaller glass area and rubber feet help.
   
  The DAC/USB part is far better latency-wise than E7; I can get away with a 512 s/s buffer as opposed to 2048 s/s at 44100 Hz.
   
  As for subjective impressions, this does drive RE272 better than E7 or the Aureon at 0 gain, slightly better than the Presonus FP10. Results in tighter and slightly stronger subbass and improved high end extension by about 0.5kHz, nice detail. No tonal changes (as I said, it's linear, also low output impedance)
  RE272 is driven well with my -24 dB eq at 42, w/o eq at 22.


----------



## uku383

Hey, has anyone compared the E17 with the Leckerton UHA-4?
  I'm in the market for my first portable amp/dac, and these both seem to be good units.
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## steveb

I just noticed a 3% 'Foreign Transaction Fee' on my Citi Card after dealing with MP4Nation since they're based overseas.  Just a heads up to anyone thinking of using a credit card.  Another reason to wait and buy from a domestic seller I suppose.  Oh well, too late now.  Citibank would probably charge me another fee if I cancel.  Savages.


----------



## lshalamb

Try reaching out to Citibank and telling them you canceled your order and you want your money back for the transaction. You can also argue you had no idea the transaction goes overseas.
  
  Quote: 





steveb said:


> I just noticed a 3% 'Foreign Transaction Fee' on my Citi Card after dealing with MP4Nation since they're based overseas.  Just a heads up to anyone thinking of using a credit card.  Another reason to wait and buy from a domestic seller I suppose.  Oh well, too late now.  Citibank would probably charge me another fee if I cancel.  Savages.


----------



## dorino

I cancelled my order with MP4Nation upon the delay being made official. Bought the set up in my signature (HRT MSII, A ampedup77 Cmoy RA1 clone)


----------



## hyogen

just took the plunge.  preordered the e17 plus the free brainwavz headset.  woot woot
   
  getting dt880 pro tomorrow......!


----------



## noona1227

Has anybody tried the e17 with the Beyerdynamic dt1350?


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> just took the plunge.  preordered the e17 plus the free brainwavz headset.  woot woot
> 
> getting dt880 pro tomorrow......!


 


  i have the dt990/600...although there similar i absolutely love my dt990 with my e9+e17 so i would imagine it would be similar for the dt880.


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





noona1227 said:


> Has anybody tried the e17 with the Beyerdynamic dt1350?


 


  According to FEDEX, the E17 will arrive on Monday. I can give you some impressions then...


----------



## ebmp19

Say that you ordered it really early and they might send it out right away like they did with me. They have live chat support on their website at certain times.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Should I get the CmoyBB now or just wait for the E17 to get in stock at miccastore? The more I read about the CmoyBB the more I lose patience for the E17 which I want really badly too. 

 Anyone have any comparison between the two also?


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> just took the plunge.  preordered the e17 plus the free brainwavz headset.  woot woot
> 
> getting dt880 pro tomorrow......!


 

 Looking forward to your report!


----------



## Etrips

Well I too contacted mp4nation about my order and they confirmed that their next shipment won't be until March. I don't mind waiting another two weeks but I'm worried about it getting pushed back further and further. Unfortunately I have no idea how many other preorders are before me or how many units Fiio is shipping to them in each batch


----------



## yawny

I've been keeping up with this thread since I ordered, and I dont think I'll be canceling it, I'll wait it out. 
   
  The way I see it, I've been living without a portable amp/DAC all this time, I can wait a few more weeks, plus nothing seems to have the same/better features at the price point of the E17


----------



## hartphoto

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Should I get the CmoyBB now or just wait for the E17 to get in stock at miccastore? The more I read about the CmoyBB the more I lose patience for the E17 which I want really badly too.
> 
> Anyone have any comparison between the two also?


 

 After having the E17 for a couple weeks, and now just looked at the CmoyBB, I'd have to say wait (I know that's not what you wanted to hear).
   
  The E17 is so versatile, and sounds so good (to my ears).  I can't actually believe I've thought about this.....but I may want another one....so I don't have to move it around so much (workout amped rig and desktop dac/amped rig).  I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 right?  
   
  In the end with the CmoyBB, it doesn't have the adjustable Bass Boost, just On or Off....  The variable treble and bass of the E17 is very nice, I use it album to album and IEM vs. Headphones all the time.  It's implemented well and just WORKS like it's supposed to.
   
  IOW, I'm still lovin' the E17!


----------



## dorino

A Cmoy is okay and, as far as amp goes, just as good if not better than the E17. It's just an amp, though, where-as the E17 is both an amp and a DAC


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  do you find the e17 lacking by itself?  if so, by how much?


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> do you find the e17 lacking by itself?  if so, by how much?


 


  Just did a 10 minute test with and without the e9 with a few songs and what i noticed is that with the e9 the mids seem a bit recessed (i don't really have a problem with that since i like the feeling of a larger sound stage) HOWEVER the overall sound is more balanced. Now just the e17 alone plugged in the mids were obviously more forward, almost sounding very similar to my grado sr60s. On the downside it did feel a bit more harsh and didn't sound as balanced with the e9 but given that the e17 settings can be tinkered with you can probably tone the treble down a bit. To sum it up and give you an answer...i can't say the e17 is really lacking by itself but more of a personal preference kind of thing. I think the e17 can drive the dt990 to a decent level but not to it's full potential and i would much prefer to use the e9 along with the e17 with lo bypass. Hope that answers your question.
   
  Given that you have the DT880 i'm not sure how it would sound with the e17 as i've never heard the DT880 so my experience will be quite different than yours since the DT990 are known to be bright.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Ugh i hate being a consumer, I only recently had my Fiio e7 + e9 for about a month. Now i just decided to pre-order the 2nd batch of Fiio E7 on mp4nation. I'm so poor =/ now. I really hope it'll be a nice upgrade like everyones talking about.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  thanks.  Well, the dt990s are known to be a bit mid recessed by themselves as well, (not as much as the dt770).  the dt880 are terrifically balanced.  
   
  I guess my real question about the amps is, do people who don't need to change EQ get amps? even if they have enough volume from their device?  my phone and PSP barely has me listening to the dt880 at normal listening level, but everything else i have including laptop and Ipad2 have more than enough volume......  thank you 
   
  if it's just volume...then I might as well cancel my preorder and get the e11...or even e6 which will be easier to carry around...


----------



## jono454

^i use my e17 at home only but i tested out my buddies e11 (i converted him) and based on convenience i would say it's a lot easier to adjust volume and other functions on the e11 than it is on the e17. Although the screen is nice i think having the knob is a lot more useful for portable use.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  that's good to know.  btw, you didn't get the e17 just for volume reasons right?  You hear an improvement, even though unamped the volume is fine with your music playing devices?  thanks


----------



## jono454

^No, definitely not, the e9 alone was enough to power the dt990s. I got the e17 for an improvement to sound and i'd say it's a noticeable improvement


----------



## hyogen

wow, just heard a small desktop amp.... made the mdr-v9, grado sr60 and sr225 sound amazing.  I can see it's not at all about volume now.  The music was alive!!  Crazy first time experience...
   
  How will this compare to the E17?  
   
  This is the amp they had:  http://www.crutchfield.com/S-S7w1YRerUoX/p_252HEDBX2B/Pro-Ject-Head-Box-II-Black.html#details-tab
   
 Specifications  *Headphone Jack: *3-pole, 1/4"

 *Gain:* 11dB

 *Power Output: *330mV / 30-ohms, 60mV / 300-ohms

 *Input Impedance: *47 kOhms

 *Signal-to-Noise Ratio: *94 ref. full output (112dB-A weighted), 3W power consumption max.

 *Frequency Response:* 30Hz-20kHz (+/-0.05dB), 10Hz-120kHz (-1dB)

 *THD:* 0.005%

 *Power Consumption:* 16V / 120mA AC

  

  

 Here are specs for E17

  

 *Specification*
  
 ● Output Power: >250mW (16Ω Loaded ); >30mW (300Ω Loaded)
 ● Headphone Impedance Range: 16 Ω ~ 300 Ω
 ● SNR:≥109dB（A weight）[AMP];≥104dB（A weight）[DAC]
 ● Distortion:<0.001%（10mW）(AMP);<0.007%（10mW）(DAC)
 ● Support sampling rate(Max):96K/24bit [USB] ; 192K/24bit [SPDIF]
 ● Frequency response:10Hz~100KHz[AMP]; 10Hz~20KHz[DAC]
 ● Battery capacity, charging time and using time:1500Mah/3.5H/15H[AUX]; 1500Mah/3.5H/15H[SPDIF]
 ● Size: 96mm x 55mm x 15.2mm
 ● Weight: 112g


----------



## bowei006

look up threads on the box
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595598/pro-ject-headbox-ii-first-impressions
   
  it seems its a no go. from initial look. not to mention. i didn't look deep but legit specs of the head box II are not posted and it's not well known on head fi. but remember. most and i don't have it. it just seems its not very good. i said it at the bottom. PM some active members of that thread that have the box.
   
  the headbox is just a headphone amp. while the E17 is an amp and also an DAC with multiple inputs. the DAC is of course a big thing. i can't seem to find what op amp is used in the head box...and really you should be able to know or find out. im a bit suspicious of it.
   
  i do not have similar headphnoes so i can't compare or tell you. most don't have that amp either so it's going to be hard for you to really compre. see if you can message any members in the thread above taht i posted. check if they are still active frist and send tehm a pm about how this will compare.
   
  do you need portability and desktop? what are your uses for it? the headbox is just...standalone desktop amp.
   
  yes..im from youtube that u commented.


----------



## hyogen

i'm not saying i want to get it.  i have looked it up.  I just wanna know if the E17 will sound as good as it does...since I have no idea how to tell from specs, etc. 
   
  I'm sticking with my order for the E17.  
   
  like will the E17 drive my phones as well as those did at least....cuz i was pretty freaking impressed with those.


----------



## nOoneNL

I hope *Feiao *can answer this for me: I've ordered my E17 at the (one and only) Fiio dealer here in The Netherlands.
 They also mentioned a delay (it was expected 1-2 weeks ago), but I'm still in the dark, no new date, nothing.
  Do you know when the E17's will hit the Netherlands?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





noonenl said:


> I hope *Feiao *can answer this for me: I've ordered my E17 at the (one and only) Fiio dealer here in The Netherlands.
> They also mentioned a delay (it was expected 1-2 weeks ago), but I'm still in the dark, no new date, nothing.
> Do you know when the E17's will hit the Netherlands?


 

  
  The ETA is March 20th, so I think they will have stock at the end of March.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

******, if they're having trouble with this amount of orders then how the hell are they gonna meet the demands of people on amazon?  About a couple weeks ago I asked when it will be on amazon and they said 2 months which is about end of march/april...I hope I don't have to wait longer than april.


----------



## mrAdrian

Hey, just feel like informing everyone esp Aussies,
   
  Both A2A and i-enjoy.com.au have them in stock. Great customer service from i-enjoy, except I've been waiting for the pre-order too long to quit...


----------



## plasmoic

Hi there,
  did any one have the chance to try E17 with some of the "demanding" hp's like
  AKG k/Q 701/702 or Senns HD 600/650?
  Im planning to get one of these for home usage...
   
  tnx


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The ETA is March 20th, so I think they will have stock at the end of March.


 


  Is this also for United States at Miccastore?


----------



## lilbingobin

im thinking upgrade from fiio e7 to a new dac amp im thinking E17 E10 ibasso D zero ibasso D7 which one do you suggest  i am preparing for my new headphone for the feature i maybe buy beyerdynamic T1 audeze lcd 2 or denon 5000 please give me some suggestion


----------



## Siftah

Quote: 





noona1227 said:


> Has anybody tried the e17 with the Beyerdynamic dt1350?


 


  Nope, but I will once my E17 arrives. Supplier is currently quoting March 16th for them receiving stock, but that has slipped once already...


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





plasmoic said:


> Hi there,
> did any one have the chance to try E17 with some of the "demanding" hp's like
> AKG k/Q 701/702 or Senns HD 600/650?
> Im planning to get one of these for home usage...
> ...


 
  I own HD600, Do you got an amp? E17 doesn't have enough power for the headphones you mentioned


----------



## Mindless Self

I currently own the FiiO E11 and I love it. Would you consider it being and "upgrade" if I get the E17 to replace my E11


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





mindless self said:


> I currently own the FiiO E11 and I love it. Would you consider it being and "upgrade" if I get the E17 to replace my E11


 

 Do you need a DAC for your computer-based source?


----------



## Mindless Self

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Do you need a DAC for your computer-based source?


 
  No not really.


----------



## plasmoic

Quote: 





duyu said:


> I own HD600, Do you got an amp? E17 doesn't have enough power for the headphones you mentioned


 


  I have only the E17, so maybe I will have to consider something like HD598, I guess
  (this was also suggested by a member from the full cans forum)


----------



## Sennhe1ser0fan

My E17 arrived a few days ago and drives my HD650s really well. I love the build quality. The pouch and the little rubber stickers are a really nice addition too. I'm loving gaming on my PS3 using the E17's toslink function. Battlefeild sounds more alive than ever.


----------



## plasmoic

tnx for the insight Sennhe1serofan...
  now my mind is a bit more....confused


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





plasmoic said:


> I have only the E17, so maybe I will have to consider something like HD598, I guess
> (this was also suggested by a member from the full cans forum)


 

  
  That's a good suggestion.
  But I doubt HD600 may still give you a better SQ than 598 even if it didn't get sufficient power.
  Really depends on your budget.
  E17+E9+HD600 is amazing. (for classical music, especially violin)
   
  For AKG K701, you have to be very very careful, I am not sure whether E17+E9 suits this headphone or not. As my fd told me, K701 will make terrible sound if you had paired it with a unsuitable amp.


----------



## ThomasH

Would HD600s or HD650s work better with this amp? Is there an idea that the e17 isn't quite powerful enough to drive some of the higher end phones? Or, because they are still a better pair of cans they will produce better SQ?


----------



## gedemmm

Anyone having information of how E17 and M50 are going together? Thanks in advance


----------



## Roller

Following gedemmm's lead, I would also like to know if anyone has tried E17 with Pro 900s.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





thomash said:


> Would HD600s or HD650s work better with this amp? Is there an idea that the e17 isn't quite powerful enough to drive some of the higher end phones? Or, because they are still a better pair of cans they will produce better SQ?


 


  May I quote what ClieOS has said,
  " if you are using anything below 150ohm, E17 alone is enough. If you are using anything beyond 300ohm, Alpen+E9 make better sense. For those in between, I think both can work out well (in different way) depends how you like to take your music. But for most casual user, I think Alpen alone should suffice."
   
   
   
  As I know E17 can support up to 300ohm headphones, and HD600 is just a 300ohm headphone if I remember it correctly. So, it is very possible that HD600 with E17 can still have better performance than HD598.
   
  But from my experience, it really makes more sense to have an E9.


----------



## bgran

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The ETA is March 20th, so I think they will have stock at the end of March.


 


 What about Norway?


----------



## nOoneNL

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The ETA is March 20th, so I think they will have stock at the end of March.


 


  Thanks for answering my question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 WOW, that's a long time. I think I might just get the E11 and see about the E17 in the future. 
  The E11 is way cheaper, available NOW and the AMP is the main thing I need for now..


----------



## 33Nick

So complete newbie question but would you all recommend this for an AKG 701 set? I still haven't decided on a sub-$200 pre-amp.

Thanks, Nicolas


----------



## Mindless Self

Quote: 





mindless self said:


> I currently own the FiiO E11 and I love it. Would you consider it being and "upgrade" if I get the E17 to replace my E11?


 
  Answers please?


----------



## eclein

I have both also....E11 first and the 17 is a definite upgrade imo, its so much more versatile and can be used so many ways its gotta be. 
  Sound Quality for me is better and the E11 is excellent, but the first one I'd grab would be the 17. Enjoy...


----------



## plasmoic

Quote: 





duyu said:


> May I quote what ClieOS has said,
> " if you are using anything below 150ohm, E17 alone is enough. If you are using anything beyond 300ohm, Alpen+E9 make better sense. For those in between, I think both can work out well (in different way) depends how you like to take your music. But for most casual user, I think Alpen alone should suffice."
> 
> 
> ...


 

 and these are the K702 specs....but too many alerts!!!!!!!
   

 *Type* open-back, dynamic headphones *Sensitivity* 105 dB/V *Frequency range* 10 to 39,800 Hz *Rated impedance* 62 ohms *Max. input power* 200 mW *Cable* 3 m single-sided (99,9% oxygen-free) *Connector* gold plated stereo jack plug 6.3 mm (1/4") *Adapter* gold plated convertible jack plug 3.5/6.3 mm (1/4" to 1/8") *Net weight (without cable)* 235 g (8.3 oz.)


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





plasmoic said:


> and these are the K702 specs....but too many alerts!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> *Type* open-back, dynamic headphones *Sensitivity* 105 dB/V *Frequency range* 10 to 39,800 Hz *Rated impedance* 62 ohms *Max. input power* 200 mW *Cable* 3 m single-sided (99,9% oxygen-free) *Connector* gold plated stereo jack plug 6.3 mm (1/4") *Adapter* gold plated convertible jack plug 3.5/6.3 mm (1/4" to 1/8") *Net weight (without cable)* 235 g (8.3 oz.)


 


  Yes, don't be misled by the 62 ohm impedance. That's what I always hear from K701/2 users.


----------



## plasmoic

..will also have a look at DT880 as a companion to the E17 (the genres Im into are mostly jazz, classic rock and classical)


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





sennhe1ser0fan said:


> My E17 arrived a few days ago and drives my HD650s really well. I love the build quality. The pouch and the little rubber stickers are a really nice addition too. I'm loving gaming on my PS3 using the E17's toslink function. Battlefeild sounds more alive than ever.


 
   
  this instills a lot of confidence in me waiting to pair the E17 and my dt880.     also, didn't think about the PSP's toslink capability     My  next laptop purchase will definitely have optical out...so i guess i might need to look at macbook? 
  
   
  Quote: 





duyu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 makes good sense to me, thanks  If you look at the specs of the Head Box II (by Pro-Ject) is it better than the E17 *on paper*?   http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CHEQFjAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crutchfield.com%2FISEO-rgbtcspd%2Fp_252HEDBX2B%2FPro-Ject-Head-Box-II-Black.html&ei=cCFAT6W-M8SXiAKV6PTKAQ&usg=AFQjCNGjWQyMAdjpB8khp0bvouwPF3UuZg
   
  on another thread, someone said that their DT880 600ohm was a little insufficent, and that the Little Dot MK II would be better.  Anything portable that matches the MK II's performance?  
   
  one last thing.....will the Little Dot MK II PAIR with the E17 just fine?  I"m just guessing that normal line cables will make it work.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> this instills a lot of confidence in me waiting to pair the E17 and my dt880.     also, didn't think about the PSP's toslink capability     My  next laptop purchase will definitely have optical out...so i guess i might need to look at macbook?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Highly recommend E9, if you've already got an E17. It's because you would wish to turn off the amp function in E17 once you got a much more powerful amp. Double amp-ing is not a good idea from my experience.
   
  I haven't listened to DT880 600ohm before, really wanna try. The review of this pair of cans is so good.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> this instills a lot of confidence in me waiting to pair the E17 and my dt880.     also, didn't think about the PSP's toslink capability     My  next laptop purchase will definitely have optical out...so i guess i might need to look at macbook?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  HYOGEN, plz understand. you are comparing an desktop amp to a portable amp and DAC with multiple inputs. desktop amps of course have more power but you are losing the portability and DAC and EQ of teh e17. the headbox is very suspicious to me. the only legit audiophile/head fi user responce on it is negative, and even worse. They don't dislose any real information about it. 300mW? so? if it uses the crapiest op amp on the planet it won't make a difference. if you are looking for a desktop amp only. here are some suggestions. not recommendations as i don't have them. but suggestiions as i see these around a lot. just something to get your feet wet:
  Obejctive 2
  little Dot
  Schiit Asgard
  Maverick Tube Magic D1(has DAC also)


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Nice try. Spinning will get you nowhere. USB is one of the worst methods for transporting audio.


 

 So you have compared USB, optical and Coax on a decent rig with revealing headphones and come to this conclusion? I have tested all three quite a bit and have never heard a significant difference between them. This would be especially true for a device like the E17 IMO.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





gedemmm said:


> Anyone having information of how E17 and M50 are going together? Thanks in advance


 


  Yes I have both and they go well together. Makes the M50s shine better than anything I've heard. They seem to take all the power the E17 gives it without sacrificing sound quality.


----------



## gEaK

So I was eagerly awaiting Micca store's next batch arriving until they announced they will only be shipping within the US.
   
*Feiao* please update us:
   
*Is the mp4nation batch still on schedule and can you give a specific date?*
   
  They already have my money and as of yet it's still the cheapest & quickest option available for me, so I'm begrudgingly holding out.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 thanks and I do realize that.  i won't know until I actually try the E17, all I know is that the head box ii sounded very good at least with the sr60, sr225, and mdr-v6.  it was just my first experience with an amp, and was hoping to see if the e17 was at least comparable as an amp at least on paper.  there's a guy on headfonia that seems to give a positive note about the head box, but prefers the little dot mk2 http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/#comment-442624292 in the comment section
   
  I'm just hoping that i will see a significant difference with the e17 and wont' need to get an e9 or something else anytime soon...that opportunity won't come for me in a long while


----------



## TheGooze

Been using the E17 for about 3 weeks and have to say sonically it is a definite improvement on the E10. Had to return the E10 due to the faulty jack socket problem. The E17 is so tight I am worried to remove the h/Phones! No crackling either!!
   
  Sound stage is definitely wider [using with Beyer DT770/250s] and I'm liking what I hear! The actual sound quality seems more controlled although I have to push the volume up more than on the E10. Volume at 3/4 was more than enough but with the E17 finding that a level around 30+ [depending on the source file] seems to be the norm.
   
  The fact you can adjust gain, bass, treble and balance in a unit at this price range seems great and though I can't claim to be an expert on this gear but the 770/250s and the E17 sound great together.
   
  I also have a pair of Grado 225s [not the i version] but haven't really tried these out yet.
   
  Just my 2p worth.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## rock888

Yes, totally agree. I'm using M50 along with E17. Both are perfectly matched. I also had E10 before. E17 makes bass punchier and mid richer, which are already the strength of M50.
  
  Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Yes I have both and they go well together. Makes the M50s shine better than anything I've heard. They seem to take all the power the E17 gives it without sacrificing sound quality.


----------



## ehjie

( i don't know much about amps ,and have never used one.)
   
  Using in ear Cans, Without head amp, still your in another world
  Further up, with head amps like the '17s, you'll be in another galaxy.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

All I gotta do is insert E17 in the E9 and it will automatically by pass E17's amp?  Also I need a LOD if I wanna use it on my ipod touch right?  Which LOD is the best one to get?


----------



## AgentXXL

thechosen0ne said:


> All I gotta do is insert E17 in the E9 and it will automatically by pass E17's amp?  Also I need a LOD if I wanna use it on my ipod touch right?  Which LOD is the best one to get?



You can use the E17 with the E9 in at least 3 different ways, all resulting in a different sonic signature:

1) E17 docked to E9 with LO Bypass on - this allows you to use the bass/treble/balance and gain controls of the E17 with the E9 - essentially enabling dual-amping. While it may allow you to more closely match the signature of the E17 by itself, it does have the possibility of reducing sound quality and adding distortion. Note that when docked, the max gain setting on the E17 is 6dB.

2) E17 docked to E9 with LO Bypass off - this uses the E17 in true line out mode, and relies primarily on the sonic signature of the E9. To most that use this mode, the mids seem a bit lacking when compared to the E17 by itself. It really depends on the cans used with this setup and you will also get different results using the E9's 3.5mm or 6.3mm output jacks (each jack has a different impedance output).

3) E17 attached to E9 via rear panel line in. To do this properly, you should have the Fiio L7 line out adapter attached to your E17. You could run from the headphone output but then you would be dual-amping again. This option has no real advantage in my mind, but is useful for those that have the E9i which only docks with an iDevice on the top of the E9i. Of course using this method you won't plug your iDevice into the E9i's dock connector - instead you'll feed the output of your iDevice to the AUX input of the E17.

Which mode you choose is really very much to your own tastes - I use both mode 1 and mode 2, depending on which cans and what type of music I'm listening too.

As for LODs for an iDevice, I prefer the Fiio L9 for a nice compact LOD that will attach an iPod Touch or an iPhone to the E17. It uses right angle connectors and is fairly short, meant to combine your iDevice and E17 into a small, portable bundle. If you need a longer LOD, say for an iPad, the Fiio L10 is a good choice. Other Fiio LODs are the L1 and L3 straight LODs, with the L3 having gold plated connectors. I prefer the convenience of the L9 and use it the most.

Hope this helps a little.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> You can use the E17 with the E9 in at least 3 different ways, all resulting in a different sonic signature:
> 1) E17 docked to E9 with LO Bypass on - this allows you to use the bass/treble/balance and gain controls of the E17 with the E9 - essentially enabling dual-amping. While it may allow you to more closely match the signature of the E17 by itself, it does have the possibility of reducing sound quality and adding distortion. Note that when docked, the max gain setting on the E17 is 6dB.
> 2) E17 docked to E9 with LO Bypass off - this uses the E17 in true line out mode, and relies primarily on the sonic signature of the E9. To most that use this mode, the mids seem a bit lacking when compared to the E17 by itself. It really depends on the cans used with this setup and you will also get different results using the E9's 3.5mm or 6.3mm output jacks (each jack has a different impedance output).
> 3) E17 attached to E9 via rear panel line in. To do this properly, you should have the Fiio L7 line out adapter attached to your E17. You could run from the headphone output but then you would be dual-amping again. This option has no real advantage in my mind, but is useful for those that have the E9i which only docks with an iDevice on the top of the E9i. Of course using this method you won't plug your iDevice into the E9i's dock connector - instead you'll feed the output of your iDevice to the AUX input of the E17.
> ...


 

 Are you sure you didn't switch #1 and #2 around? Somewhere on this thread someone mentioned LO Bypass ON (meaning switch is down) will bypass the e17 eq functions and use true line out and in OFF (switch is up) it will use the e17 functions.


----------



## JoeMarioZ

I want to use the E17 only for portability purposes, therefore I will be using it either with my iPhone or my iPad, I know I have to buy an LOD, but I understand that with an LOD you bypass only the iDevice's amp, not the DAC. So is there any ways to bypass both the DAC and the AMP on my iDevice? I heard that E7 works with the camera connection kit on the iPad. But does it work on iPhone? and on an iPod nano/ touch? that also have 30-pin connection...


----------



## veracocha

Could you recommend me a another dac with the bass setting options ? (except E10 )


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





joemarioz said:


> I want to use the E17 only for portability purposes, therefore I will be using it either with my iPhone or my iPad, I know I have to buy an LOD, but I understand that with an LOD you bypass only the iDevice's amp, not the DAC. So is there any ways to bypass both the DAC and the AMP on my iDevice? I heard that E7 works with the camera connection kit on the iPad. But does it work on iPhone? and on an iPod nano/ touch? that also have 30-pin connection...


 
  to bypass the DAC on the i devices. You would need something like the Cypher Labs Algorythm solo opr the Fostex HP-1. the Camera connection kit if i remember only works on bypassing DAC with the ipad and even then. if the draw on the ipad is larger than 100 or 150MaH(i forgot which one) it will not let you to use the device as a DAC. the E17 can not be used as DAC wit ipad.
   
  keep in mind..this is costly at about $500. most just use an LOD because the DAC in the ipod is already capable enough. The DAC in the iphone's is the best DAC on the phone market..as in; in all of the mass marketed smartphones on the market. By itself, the iphone's be it the 4 or the 4S compared to their competition. beats it out....and yeah ipod's as well. there have been some things about Nokia digitial lining out but that is also iffy on working sometimes and stuff


----------



## AgentXXL

jono454 said:


> Are you sure you didn't switch #1 and #2 around? Somewhere on this thread someone mentioned LO Bypass ON (meaning switch is down) will bypass the e17 eq functions and use true line out and in OFF (switch is up) it will use the e17 functions.





 
 
It all depends how you interpret the terminology. To me, LO Bypass ON means that you are enabling line out bypass, i.e. pre-out mode which allows you to use the E17 bass/treble/balance/gain controls with the E9. LO Bypass OFF means you are disabling the bypass, leaving the E17 in true fixed line out mode.

Either way you interpret it, there are two output modes supported by the E17 when you dock with the E9. And 3 or more modes if you also use the rear panel line in.


----------



## AgentXXL

bowei006 said:


> if the draw on the ipad is larger than 100 or 150MaH(i forgot which one) it will not let you to use the device as a DAC. the E17 can not be used as DAC wit ipad.





 
 
One minor clarification - the E17 can be used as a USB DAC with an iPad + CCK, but you do need to isolate the power draw on the iPad using a special cable or powered USB hub. See post #995 earlier in the thread where I got the E17 to work with the iPad.

Unfortunately the CCK doesn't work with the iPhone or iPod Touch, only the iPad. You would need the Algorithm Solo, the Fostex or the iPure dock to bypass the iPhone DAC. Very costly, and often just transportable, not really portable.


----------



## jono454

If i wanted to use the e17 as a DAC for my pc setup and say i picked up a Little Dot MKII amp. What cables and how would I go about setting up my desktop rig so it would be pc-->e17-->little dot-->headphones?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> If i wanted to use the e17 as a DAC for my pc setup and say i picked up a Little Dot MKII amp. What cables and how would I go about setting up my desktop rig so it would be pc-->e17-->little dot-->headphones?


 

 Best sound quality will be PC --> E17 --> Fiio L7 line out LOD --> Little Dot line in --> headphones. The L7 connects to the dock connector on the bottom of the E17. You then run a 3.5mm to dual RCA cable from the L7 to the Little Dot RCA line in.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Best sound quality will be PC --> E17 --> Fiio L7 line out LOD --> Little Dot line in --> headphones. The L7 connects to the dock connector on the bottom of the E17. You then run a 3.5mm to dual RCA cable from the L7 to the Little Dot RCA line in.


 


  Thanks for the quick response...exactly what i was looking for since i wanted to throw in a tube amp. Using that method with 3.5mm to RCA wouldn't be double amping right?


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  are you finding your E9/E17 lacking??!  (as far as driveability) and for which headphone?   that makes me seriously reconsider getting just the E17 (which will have to suffice for a long while)...forego the portability....and just get a tube amp like the little dot..................... btw i have the dt880 250ohm


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> are you finding your E9/E17 lacking??!  (as far as driveability) and for which headphone?   that makes me seriously reconsider getting just the E17 (which will have to suffice for a long while)...forego the portability....and just get a tube amp like the little dot..................... btw i have the dt880 250ohm


 

 No absolutely not, i love this combination but i've always wanted to try a tube amp. Another reason is i have the dt990 600 and k702. While they both sound magnificent with the e9/e17 combo, the dt990 can be a bit harsh sometimes so i wanna try throwing in a tube amp to see how that would turn out.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> No absolutely not, i love this combination but i've always wanted to try a tube amp. Another reason is i have the dt990 600 and k702. While they both sound magnificent with the e9/e17 combo, the dt990 can be a bit harsh sometimes so i wanna try throwing in a tube amp to see how that would turn out.


 

 Because you have an E9, you don't need the L7. Well, to make the setup less bulky it still might be desirable. But if you have the space on your desktop, you can dock the E17 on the E9 and then use the E9 line out (fixed) or pre-out (volume controlled by knob on E9) to connect to the Little Dot line in. Personally I would use the fixed line out from the E9 and then use the volume control of the Little Dot to adjust my listening volume.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Because you have an E9, you don't need the L7. Well, to make the setup less bulky it still might be desirable. But if you have the space on your desktop, you can dock the E17 on the E9 and then use the E9 line out (fixed) or pre-out (volume controlled by knob on E9) to connect to the Little Dot line in. Personally I would use the fixed line out from the E9 and then use the volume control of the Little Dot to adjust my listening volume.


 

 wait wait hold on here...so what your saying is...pc-->e9+e17-->little dot-->headphones? 
   
  Would this setup bypass the amp in the e9?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> wait wait hold on here...so what your saying is...pc-->e9+e17-->little dot-->headphones?
> 
> Would this setup bypass the amp in the e9?


 

 Yes, as long as you use the fixed line out. If you use the pre-out, the E9 amp will be inserted into the path. Essentially you'd be using the E9 as a LOD, with the E17 acting as USB or SPDIF (optical or coaxial) DAC.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  sent you a pm.  don't want to keep bugging everyone else with questions that just seem to not be getting answered   i think you'll have the insight i'm looking for!


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> sent you a pm.  don't want to keep bugging everyone else with questions that just seem to not be getting answered   i think you'll have the insight i'm looking for!


 

 I'm not sure what question(s) you aren't getting answered, but I gather you want to know if the E17 will be suitable on its own to drive your DT880 250 ohm cans? I would say the answer is yes, based on the fact that it adequately powers my DT770 250 ohm cans. That  said, I went with the E9 + E17 bundle to give myself just that much more headroom and a little bit of future-proofing for my next cans, hopefully a set of Sennheiser HD800s.
   
  As for needing the E9, I would say it's not absolutely necessary. I do have to set the E17 to a gain of 12dB and operate at a volume of 35 - 45, depending on the source material. With my Shure SE215 IEMs, I can easily operate at 0dB gain and a volume level of 20 - 30 depending on the source material.
   
  That said, this is purely my opinion and is what I consider acceptable to my ears and my brain. What's adequate for me may not suit you at all. The only way to know for sure is to try the E17 with your headphones and your source material. Only your ears and brain can decide if the solution achieves what you wanted or hoped for. Unfortunately we all like to base our decisions on what others hear or perceive, but in reality it's up to the individual to decide if a certain setup meets their needs.
   
  Hope that helps a little...


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  pre-emptive answer and the last sentence could almost be made into a verse in a rhyme....  hehe...thank you.  I did send you msg without seeing this.  That really helps again.  I guess what I'm hoping to hear is that the E17 will significantly DRIVE the 250ohm dt880s..  What fraction of a FULLY adequate desktop powered amp (to your ears) can the E17 achieve?  
   
  or if you haven't heard it with another fully adequate amp, then can you compare the e17 on paper to this one's specs (which I have heard and was pleased).  http://www.crutchfield.com/S-AnmOJygfCpB/p_252HEDBX2B/Pro-Ject-Head-Box-II-Black.html


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I'm not sure what question(s) you aren't getting answered, but I gather you want to know if the E17 will be suitable on its own to drive your DT880 250 ohm cans? I would say the answer is yes, based on the fact that it adequately powers my DT770 250 ohm cans. That  said, I went with the E9 + E17 bundle to give myself just that much more headroom and a little bit of future-proofing for my next cans, hopefully a set of Sennheiser HD800s.
> 
> As for needing the E9, I would say it's not absolutely necessary. I do have to set the E17 to a gain of 12dB and operate at a volume of 35 - 45, depending on the source material. With my Shure SE215 IEMs, I can easily operate at 0dB gain and a volume level of 20 - 30 depending on the source material.
> 
> ...


 

 Would be REALLY interested to know if the e9+e17 can drive the HD800s and any top tier headphone to a decent level.


----------



## gEaK

For any customers looking into that 16th of March date at advancedmp3players (the only UK supplier at the moment) I emailed asking about availability and they told me that they are only expecting, wait for it:
   
*10 units*
   
  Unbelievable.
   
  They said more pre-orders than this have been placed already so no chance there. Now I am seriously doubting that my mp4nation pre-order is going to be fulfilled.
   
*Feiao *this is ridiculous, I feel like those of us waiting are being strung along. You keep giving these glimmers of hope but so far it's amounted to nothing, and we're all just waiting around cluelessly.


----------



## Parall3l

Maybe we should make a rant thread about the E17 pre-order and stop de-railing this one.


----------



## xander90

Quote: 





parall3l said:


> Maybe we should make a rant thread about the E17 pre-order and stop de-railing this one.


 


  This.


----------



## gEaK

This thread went off the rails a lonnng time ago. Speaking of which whatever happened to that bowie guy?? I'm worried for him.
   
  Besides, this is important information.
   
  A lot of people were waiting on the advancedmp3players batch and many may be placing pre-orders that will never be fulfilled, which is poor.


----------



## bowei006

Im here. I rea all ur posts. If anyone has a question i go and answer it. Agentxxl and i more or leas agreed on more hands off approach to this thread.


----------



## Mikesin

Sucks for you lot to wait for this to come out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, why didn't any of you purchase the first batch that came out? It seems like I've had my E17 forever now.


----------



## dmcs414

Good morning e17 thread.  So, if we're in the US and are considering ordering one of these, would the fastest potential retailer still be mp4nation at this point, or are there better alternatives?
   
  Secondly,  anyone had experience with e17 and orthos, for example the Fostex T50RPs, Hifiman HE-500, or Audeze LCD-2?  
   
  Lastly, would love to hear impressions on the bass/treble controls as compared to EQ'ing in foobar with a PC/FLAC as the source.  Are said controls on the e17 good enough that EQ'ing in foobar isn't as necessary?  Many thanks!


----------



## matics

bowei006 said:


> The DAC in the iphone's is the best DAC on the phone market..as in; in all of the mass marketed smartphones on the market.


 The iPhone does have a good quality DAC, however, claiming that it is the best in class is simply untrue. Android users on Samsung Galaxy devices, in my opinion, have superior audio to any iDevice when utilizing the Voodoo Sound kernel. Seriously, it's that good.


----------



## lshalamb

What I'd love to ask FEAIO is if are you guys going to fulfill the demand  for batch #2 sellers like mp4nation have? here's rule of thumb: if you are unable to produce as much as market demands, DO NOT SPECULATE WITH PREORDERS. Don't you have any business people in your company that can tell you how to conduct your activities?
  In case you don't, here's a free consultation for you: you should supply the necessary quantity and 10% extra on top of it to avoid any potentially unpredicted situations. Delivering less or not delivering in time at all makes people unhappy. Unhappy people tend to cancel their orders and buy from your competitors.
  And since your business is not selling bred, I doubt many of those buyers will need a new portable amp/dac any soon, unless they collect 'em.
  Limited quantities notification on preorder? OK, I get it. I placed my order like a month ago, even today you can go to mp4nation and place another one, if quantities are limited, why does this keep happening?
  Buy local warnings: internet is a global market, I can buy from whoever I want, your job is to produce and ship it to distributors, not to tell me where I should order from. That should be of my concern, if I am willing to take this path.
  Delay to early march: OK, we're all humans, we have our holidays. We all know workers like not to show up sometimes. How long must it take you to solve this problem? Not enough skilled workers in China? I managed to find qualified workforce after holidays even in Russia in 2 days; and people did the job for appropriate money. 
  to sum up my "raging post" (which it is not, it is rather an advice for the future to fiio reps) here are the things no one here knows for sure: are you going to delay the 2nd batch again? why do you let your distributors have unlimited preorders for limited quantity? Do you even care about people who ordered long time ago and may still get their order delayed? Do you feel like your company needs some more workers, including business people?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Good morning e17 thread.  So, if we're in the US and are considering ordering one of these, would the fastest potential retailer still be mp4nation at this point, or are there better alternatives?
> 
> Secondly,  anyone had experience with e17 and orthos, for example the Fostex T50RPs, Hifiman HE-500, or Audeze LCD-2?
> 
> Lastly, would love to hear impressions on the bass/treble controls as compared to EQ'ing in foobar with a PC/FLAC as the source.  Are said controls on the e17 good enough that EQ'ing in foobar isn't as necessary?  Many thanks!


 
   

  Miccastore for U.S would probably be fastest
   

  
  Quote: 





matics said:


> The iPhone does have a good quality DAC, however, claiming that it is the best in class is simply untrue. Android users on Samsung Galaxy devices, in my opinion, have superior audio to any iDevice when utilizing the Voodoo Sound kernel. Seriously, it's that good.


 


  I have not read much on the Voodoo kernel. i know it's there but it's not mentioned too too much. in terms of true DAC ability however on the standard OS. the iPhone always wins. but like you said. Voodoo. im not going to go into this subject as i have not yet heard Samsung Galaxy device with Voodoo and I wont' take others opinions on it. despite most saying..they are not going to be biased towards Apple...you don't know how many people say that..and then start getting biased towards Apple.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> What I'd love to ask FEAIO is if are you guys going to fulfill the demand  for batch #2 sellers like mp4nation have? here's rule of thumb: if you are unable to produce as much as market demands, DO NOT SPECULATE WITH PREORDERS. Don't you have any business people in your company that can tell you how to conduct your activities?
> In case you don't, here's a free consultation for you: you should supply the necessary quantity and 10% extra on top of it to avoid any potentially unpredicted situations. Delivering less or not delivering in time at all makes people unhappy. Unhappy people tend to cancel their orders and buy from your competitors.
> And since your business is not selling bred, I doubt many of those buyers will need a new portable amp/dac any soon, unless they collect 'em.
> Limited quantities notification on preorder? OK, I get it. I placed my order like a month ago, even today you can go to mp4nation and place another one, if quantities are limited, why does this keep happening?
> ...


 

 Very sorry for the situation, but we had never  arranged any pre order because we don't sell to end customer directly. and I will talk with MP4nation about it to make sure
   
  they can inform their customer know how many uint that we can supply to them.so they can stop any pre order when the quantity reach the limited.
   
  Also usually we will produce only 1,000 pcs in first batch and the second batch will be 5,000 pcs. and it take about 45 days from first batch to second batch , but between
   
  them we meet a long holiday for the Chinese New year, so we have to wait till the whole supply chain back to normal.   
   
   
  Anyway , thanks for your feedback and it can help us learn more about how to run a global business. we will try out best to improve our work in the future.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I have not read much on the Voodoo kernel. i know it's there but it's not mentioned too too much. in terms of true DAC ability however on the standard OS. the iPhone always wins. but like you said. Voodoo. im not going to go into this subject as i have not yet heard Samsung Galaxy device with Voodoo and I wont' take others opinions on it. despite most saying..they are not going to be biased towards Apple...you don't know how many people say that..and then start getting biased towards Apple.


 


  Then listen to the Wolfson DAC and find out for yourself.


----------



## Roller

Out of curiosity, which seem to be the best vendors in Europe to get Fiio products, especially E17?


----------



## bowei006

I have listened to a Wolfson DAC..i have one..i have a couple devices with Wolfson in them but in terms of just Samsung Galaxy Wolfson. I will be some time in the future. however. that is without any Voodoo kernels. i have had conversations with many people that have Samsung Galaxies and no love of Apple. and still say. by default iPhone is better. Just because it's Wolfson doesn't make it the best.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





roller said:


> Out of curiosity, which seem to be the best vendors in Europe to get Fiio products, especially E17?


 


  It depend on where you are, we may present at iFA 2012 so we can find more distributor in Europe especially 
   
  in France, Germany, Italy and some other non English spoken countries. I think people in there may not interested
   
  in head-fi.org but tend to discuss in local thread so the local company will not interested in selling our amp too.
   
  Anyway, it is not suitable for us to tell you who are the best because it is not fair to our customer. we already
   
  updated the newest information of the shipment of E17 on our website.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I have listened to a Wolfson DAC..i have one..i have a couple devices with Wolfson in them but in terms of just Samsung Galaxy Wolfson. I will be some time in the future. however. that is without any Voodoo kernels. i have had conversations with many people that have Samsung Galaxies and no love of Apple. and still say. by default iPhone is better. Just because it's Wolfson doesn't make it the best.


 


  Wolfson have so many different DAC and they don't sound as the same , so far we have not found any cell phone use WM8740 which is used on some DAC and E17.
   
  The best DAC chip from Wolfson is WM8740, WM8741, WM742, but only WM8740 is designed for portable use.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Wolfson have so many different DAC and they don't sound as the same , so far we have not found any cell phone use WM8740 which is used on some DAC and E17.
> 
> The best DAC chip from Wolfson is WM8740, WM8741, WM742, but only WM8740 is designed for portable use.


 

 That's what I meant by just it being Wolfson doesn't mean it's good. the Wolfson in the Gaaxies are not high performance models like the e17 and others. 
   
  I'm trying not to get back into mass posting on this thread
   
http://fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=183
   
  but in case no one has noticed. Micca store has just received the new shipment..what does this mean? START REFRESHING THEIR PAGE EVERY COUPLE HOURS NOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Micca got their stock on 1-16 the first time and sale went up on the 24th. if they follow about the same pattern. it should be around 23rd of this month. don't quote me on this.


----------



## lshalamb

Thank you for your answer. It does mean a lot that you are willing to work with us. If you could only push mp4nation to arrange preorder list so that they notified people if they are going to receive their preordered item - would be just spectacular. What I mean by this is: say, you tell mp4nation that you are going to ship them 1000 units, they make a list of customers who will receive those units and e-mail each one of us, notifying "your preorder for batch 2 is been confirmed" or vice-versa "unfortunately we will be unable to fulfill your preorder for 2nd batch". That's all I need as your indirect customer and direct consumer.
  About arranging preorders: I never said you do, I pointed out that you should inform your distributors to whether how much units they are receiving in future so that THEY could plan their preorders (if any at all) ahead of time and avoid such situations. Distributors want to maximize the money. You as a producer want a brand name instead. This is why you ideally want to work with distributors to make sure they don't try to catch short-term benefit on your long-term expense.
  You would have to excuse my partial incompetence, I can only speak to things that are generally common for international businesses from my practice as I am not familiar with the way you conduct operations. Your throughput time is affected by your suppliers, I can see that, but you can work on process time as it solely depends on you.
  And finally, yes, you are right, I'm just trying to help you folks receive the feedback that can actually help your business! Let us know how your negotiation with mp4nation ends and to what outcome.
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Very sorry for the situation, but we had never  arranged any pre order because we don't sell to end customer directly. and I will talk with MP4nation about it to make sure
> 
> they can inform their customer know how many uint that we can supply to them.so they can stop any pre order when the quantity reach the limited.
> 
> ...


----------



## Delgadido

> Micca Store Thanks for all the interest. Looks like a few minutes the FiiO E17's made land-fall in the US, DHL wasted no time in doing the customs clearing. It looks like we may get this a bit early, hopefully Tuesday 2/21.


 
 I am glad I waited for them to receive their stuff


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I have listened to a Wolfson DAC..i have one..i have a couple devices with Wolfson in them but in terms of just Samsung Galaxy Wolfson. I will be some time in the future. however. that is without any Voodoo kernels. i have had conversations with many people that have Samsung Galaxies and no love of Apple. and still say. by default iPhone is better. Just because it's Wolfson doesn't make it the best.


 


  Clearly you haven't listened to the Galaxy S. And I was talking about its Wolfson DAC, not some generic Wolfson DAC, so avoid lecturing and have a listen to it.

  
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> It depend on where you are, we may present at iFA 2012 so we can find more distributor in Europe especially
> 
> in France, Germany, Italy and some other non English spoken countries. I think people in there may not interested
> 
> ...


 


  feiao, I'm presently in Portugal and it's relatively hard to get Fiio products, which have to be imported. This fact is a shame because there is a growing audiophile community here, and many would love for an easier product availability.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> Clearly you haven't listened to the Galaxy S. And I was talking about its Wolfson DAC, not some generic Wolfson DAC, so avoid lecturing and have a listen to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 only problem is.....i don't have one accessible to me. ..why go to the store ? i want to be able to load a couple of my songs on there and do an comparison of the two. sometime in the future i guess..or maybe not.


----------



## beaver316

So im thinking of getting the E17, but i have a few questions. Im pretty new to this site, and audio in general.
   
  So i have an iPod Nano 2nd gen, in other words, a very old mp3 player with pretty bad sound and terrible amp. If i were to connect it to the E17, the DAC and Amp in the E17 are used for the audio and bypass the DAC and Amp in the iPod. Is this right? So it wouldnt matter at all whether i have the best mp3 player in the world or the worst, as long as it's connected to the E17 then i'll get the same sound, generated from the E17 right?
   
  Also, what would be a better way to connect my ipod to the E17? Using this:
   
http://www.audioelevation.co.uk/CartV3/images/ibassoCb03.jpg
   
  or this:
   
http://shop.rabtron.co.za/catalog/images/3.5mm-jack-lead-male-to-male-stereo.jpg
   
  Would there be a difference in sound quality between either of them?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Stoney

Forgive me for arriving just now after 104 pages... 
   
  But can someone please point me to pages *comparing the E7 to E17 with analog in?*
  I'm using an iPhone 4s, and the E7 is a great package for portable, but a bit flat in soundstage and slightly thin harmonically. 
  (Oh, and where is it in stock? ... I found this answer: nowhere at the moment, post #1545)
   
  I do wish there were a way to feed an iPhone digital out into the FiiO.
   
  (PS: using Phonak 232 on foot, and Senn HD650 with PC.  Have Woo WA6 for living room.)
   
   
   
  So far, I only found these limited comments: 
  - E7 vs E17 technical comments - post #1303
  - Digital out from iPhone is expensive and unnecessary.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/1515#post_8160089
  - E7 is thin and lacking in dynamics somewhat on HD650, although E17 will not bring out their full capabilities.  "the E17 is a pretty decent step forward from the E7."  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/1050#post_8110623
  - Comments on E10 and E17 with HD650 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/1035#post_8110602
   
  This website gives some sonic descriptions that seem useful: http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> So im thinking of getting the E17, but i have a few questions. Im pretty new to this site, and audio in general.
> 
> So i have an iPod Nano 2nd gen, in other words, a very old mp3 player with pretty bad sound and terrible amp. If i were to connect it to the E17, the DAC and Amp in the E17 are used for the audio and bypass the DAC and Amp in the iPod. Is this right? So it wouldnt matter at all whether i have the best mp3 player in the world or the worst, as long as it's connected to the E17 then i'll get the same sound, generated from the E17 right?
> 
> ...


 

 The E17 will only bypass the amp. it will not bypass DAC on ipods. the top wire is the one you want to use. ibasso is too expensive. get an fiio L3 or L9. not the L1. Your PMP's DAC will affect how your music sounds. the nano if i remember sports a Wolfson.not sure how good it is as my Nano currently has issues
   
  so basically E17 can only bypass amp. Get the first wire. It's called an LOD. Apple has very good LOD on their ipods..not sure about nano 2nd gen but it should.
   
  yes there is a sound difference in between. LOD's(the first one) will bypass teh ipods internal amp, and the second one will not. you will dual amp with the second one. dual amp means..use both amps. ipod amps in general are like any other consumer amp. very hiss prone, has noise and staticy. the LOD will remove this and give you a straight analog signal from the DAC which is then fed straight into the E17's pre amp and then amp 
   
  Hope this helps. need any clarification
   
  Stoney:
   
  Most people compare the E7 to E17 through analog in. they use the same DAC...so the differences most people hear should actually be from the two amps themselves.


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





> Most people compare the E7 to E17 through analog in.


 
   
  I haven't seen many comparisons yet.  I suppose that is because the first batch was only 1000.  I now see that it is pre-order or not available.  I'll wait into March or beyond to expect inventory... and hence, reviews.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> I haven't seen many comparisons yet.  I suppose that is because the first batch was only 1000.  I now see that it is pre-order or not available.  I'll wait into March or beyond to expect inventory... and hence, reviews.


 

 I was talking about CLIEO and mike at headfonia.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they all posted on E17 differences from E7.


----------



## noona1227

Quote: 





rafa said:


> According to FEDEX, the E17 will arrive on Monday. I can give you some impressions then...


 

 I'd appreciate it


----------



## DanXbix

just ordered one on ebay hopefully will pair well with my pro700mk2 cans


----------



## hyogen

What did you pay for it?  
  
 does the ipad2 have the same DAC as iPhone 4 and 4s?
  
 For iPad 2 and E17 I should get the L9, right?    So it bypasses the pad amp.   Do I need to set iPad to NOT charge when plugged into USB?  
  
  
 Im looking for an mp3 player... Is an old iPhone like 3GS gonna have a better DAC than a Samsung galaxy?
  
 I just realized my  HTC Surround phone (16gb built in hdd)  windows 7 phone has better (maybe just louder) sound than my Huawei Mercury (glory). So maybe ill just keep it as my mp3 player even though it has no cellular service. 
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## Delgadido

if my laptop can put out 24/192 will the e17 make a bigger difference? I am kind of lost now.. I have the m50s


----------



## ClieOS

delgadido said:


> if my laptop can put out 24/192 will the e17 make a bigger difference? I am kind of lost now.. I have the m50s




24/192 doesn't automatically make music better. Mastering and encoding of the music have more to do with better sounding music than bit depth and bit rate - if that sounds all too complicated for you, it is because a lot of manufacturer want people to believe higher number is everything, which is only a tiny part of the whole story. 16/44.1 is more than capable of reproducing all commercial music perfectly, so there is not need to worry about this sort of things.


----------



## DanXbix

Got it for $155au from a authorized dealer. Pairing with my m18x, ipad2 via USB with powered hub and iPhone4 with L9 LOD. 


Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk


----------



## SouthernBoy

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> What did you pay for it?
> 
> does the ipad2 have the same DAC as iPhone 4 and 4s?
> 
> ...


 


  Not sure about the DAC in the ipad2, but with some external USB DACs (not sure if it's tested on the E17) you can use the Camera Connection kit to bypass the DAC+ HP AMP altogether and send the digital signal to a USB DAC directly.  I think you'd have to set the E17 to not charge via USB to prevent the ipad2 from complaining about the device drawing too much power.
   
  It is confirmed to work with the E7, so I'd be shocked if it doesn't work with the E17.  See more at http://www.head-fi.org/t/493625/good-news-fiios-e7-had-been-confirmed-to-support-ipad-with-camera-kits#post_6661635 and http://www.head-fi.org/t/479527/news-about-our-e7/45#post_6660856 (with a pic of the E7 setup!)


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





noona1227 said:


> I'd appreciate it


 


  Hi, I am sorry couldn' t hold my promise  I have the flu. Yeah I got it on monday but, did not even open the box...
   
  Today I feel less dizzy, so here are some impressions with the DT1350:
   
  First of all, I could not get the E17 to work with my laptop, so I had to use the Cowon D3 as source, via spdif.
   
  For those who think the DT1350 is bass-shy, try using it with the E17. There is quantity and quality. The mids hobble a little behind but to my ears they sound nice too. I think with EQ-ing this will be no problem. What I like less about the D1350 & E17 combination are the highs. They seem a little bright and sharp in some recordings. This is all at the moment, I will write up more later...


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The E17 will only bypass the amp. it will not bypass DAC on ipods. the top wire is the one you want to use. ibasso is too expensive. get an fiio L3 or L9. not the L1. Your PMP's DAC will affect how your music sounds. the nano if i remember sports a Wolfson.not sure how good it is as my Nano currently has issues
> 
> so basically E17 can only bypass amp. Get the first wire. It's called an LOD. Apple has very good LOD on their ipods..not sure about nano 2nd gen but it should.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your post. Very helpful. But i doubt very much that my iPod has a Wolfson DAC. It's pretty bad sounding. So how would i go about bypassing the DAC in the iPod and using the E17's one? I know on computers this is done by connecting it to the USB, but i want it done on my portable setup too.


----------



## Delgadido

Quote: 





clieos said:


> 24/192 doesn't automatically make music better. Mastering and encoding of the music have more to do with better sounding music than bit depth and bit rate - if that sounds all too complicated for you, it is because a lot of manufacturer want people to believe higher number is everything, which is only a tiny part of the whole story. 16/44.1 is more than capable of reproducing all commercial music perfectly, so there is not need to worry about this sort of things.


 


  I believe you. The problem is I tried the e7. and there was no benefit of it from it vs my laptop. so do you think it will be worth it?
   
  I have a l502x(i didnt get the x-fi card, i wasnt into these audio products as much back then)


----------



## mrAdrian

Wait, so you are saying E7 vs E17 DAC function: not much improvement?
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Stoney:
> 
> Most people compare the E7 to E17 through analog in. they use the same DAC...so the differences most people hear should actually be from the two amps themselves.


----------



## ClieOS

delgadido said:


> I believe you. The problem is I tried the e7. and there was no benefit of it from it vs my laptop. so do you think it will be worth it?
> 
> I have a l502x(i didnt get the x-fi card, i wasnt into these audio products as much back then)




Since I have never listened to L502X before, I can't say for sure - but if your laptop is the same level as E7, then E17 should be an improvement.


----------



## Delgadido

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Since I have never listened to L502X before, I can't say for sure - but if your laptop is the same level as E7, then E17 should be an improvement.


 

  
  my laptop sounded alot better. it was mainly an amp. my clip+ can give me better bass control for my m50s than my laptop and my ipod nano is the ****tiest out of all of them.


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

The Micca Store has E17s available in about 3 hours.  I love mine so much I might get a second one to use as a paper weight at work.  Good luck everyone.. the race is on.


----------



## xxhaxx

Do I hear a challenge? Challenge Accepted!


----------



## tme110

I've stopped following this thread because it's so frustrating.  It's almost like people are upset that Fiio is doing well.  It's a brand new product with high interest and a following around the world. It's not like they have to beef up the supply to Amazon or even the US, they have to start supply for the first time for the entire planet.  900+ units in the first batch - do you know how many other (if not all) manufactures would kill for that kind of volume?  My Apex Peak's serial number has only 1 digit.  People keep demanding things fro FIIO where fiio is under absolutely no obligation of any kind to respond to any of it. They have nothing to do with pre-orders, how resellers handle thier products or the fact that the Chinese New Year (which is a huge impact compared to any holiday in the US) started right as the product was ready.  The fact that Fiio, who sells something like 15,000 units a month, is on this one single small thread to answer the same questions over and over is pretty impressive.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Anyone know how this amp pairs with the little dot mkiii?


----------



## mdyoung216

Sorry, I disagree.  Having an item for sale that you can't provide doesn't make for happy customers.  The U.S. is probably their biggest market, so I think they need to keep people here happy.  They are also under some obligation to control who is selling their products.  Look how carmakers suffered from crappy dealer service.


----------



## ObeyurMaster

Lol....I been waiting for the E17 too...
  


xxhaxx said:


> Do I hear a challenge? Challenge Accepted!


 
   


fivethreeecho said:


> The Micca Store has E17s available in about 3 hours.  I love mine so much I might get a second one to use as a paper weight at work.  Good luck everyone.. the race is on.


----------



## xxhaxx

Hows the F5ing


----------



## SniperCzar

I have two windows open... control+tab f5 control+shift+tab f5 repeat until E17 appears...


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

My secretary is F5ing for me.


----------



## ObeyurMaster

This is fun...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can't see the E17 yet...


----------



## Y2HBK

Are we sure about that "3 hours" from earlier? I just called them and the person I spoke to knew nothing about the E17 going live today. 
   
  *EDIT* 
   
  I meant I emailed them, not called them.


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Quote: 





obeyurmaster said:


> This is fun...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


      I can, it is sitting on my desk in all its glory.


----------



## SniperCzar

According to their twitter as well as the US availability thread, it's dropping today.


----------



## FiveThreeEcho

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Are we sure about that "3 hours" from earlier? I just called them and the person I spoke to knew nothing about the E17 going live today.
> 
> *EDIT*
> 
> I meant I emailed them, not called them.


 


      Their Twitter feed said," FiiO E17: Will be available for ordering on Miccastore.com at 3PM EST Today. Will ship out tomorrow."


----------



## SniperCzar

Ugh, I have to leave in 20min, I hope it actually goes up for order before then.


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





fivethreeecho said:


> Their Twitter feed said," FiiO E17: Will be available for ordering on Miccastore.com at 3PM EST Today. Will ship out tomorrow."


 


  Hmm. Commerce refreshing then, I 'spose.


----------



## SniperCzar

I have a sickening feeling I'm either going to miss my 4pm appointment or break my F5 key. Maybe both.


----------



## mister2d

I've had the E17 almost one month now.

 My impression now is that it's a solid product. Perhaps the static/buzz issues were part of some kind of weird burn-in, because it does not happen now.
   
  Battery life is impressive and I love being able to use it between all my computers (Linux, Mac, and sometimes Windows) without a hitch.


----------



## Y2HBK

Maybe they had the time zone wrong.


----------



## ObeyurMaster

My boss isn't too pleased with me going mental with the F5 key 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.....Can someone update here when it's available for ordering?


----------



## SniperCzar

I doubt it, I bet they're just outside the shop helping the shipping guy unload the pallets.


----------



## Jack C

Sorry guys, had a bit of a technical issue. It's up.


----------



## Y2HBK

Ordered.


----------



## skyline315

It's showing up at micca for me.  Too bad I don't have the funds to buy it at the moment...


----------



## SniperCzar

It's live guys.


----------



## ObeyurMaster

Got them and the GR07.....I was waiting to get the GR07 for some time and the bundle discount was too tempting to ignore.


----------



## xxhaxx

Order.now


----------



## rivalyoung

Can't wait to get these in the mail!


----------



## SoundDreamer

I just ordered one from the MiccaStore. My choice was between the iBasso D7 and this one. I chose to go with the E17 due to there being a dealer in the US for Fiio that had them in stock. Purchasing overseas is always a question of being able to return it if something goes wrong.


----------



## mdyoung216

Well I got order in.  Now to cancel the MP4 Nation order. Better not give me a hard time getting my money back.


----------



## mdyoung216

Quote: 





jack c said:


> Sorry guys, had a bit of a technical issue. It's up.


 

 I hope you actually have the amp in stock.


----------



## Jack C

Quote: 





mdyoung216 said:


> I hope you actually have the amp in stock.


 


  That sounds like a challenge.


----------



## lshalamb

+1, did the same. Cheers 
 Any1 experienced with mp4nation order cancellation here?
  Quote: 





mdyoung216 said:


> Well I got order in.  Now to cancel the MP4 Nation order. Better not give me a hard time getting my money back.


----------



## happy2000hk

Looks like it's sold out already....wow that was quick!


----------



## lshalamb

Wait, you're saying I bought the last one? xD wow
  
  Quote: 





happy2000hk said:


> Looks like it's sold out already....wow that was quick!


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





southernboy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed not to work with camera connection kit (and e17).  Still hoping someone can answer my question about L9 and ipad 2 above.  thanks


----------



## Delgadido

ok here is a good question i guess if you can determine if i should get it or not.
   
  which sounsd better.... rockbox clip+ or e17


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





happy2000hk said:


> Looks like it's sold out already....wow that was quick!


 
   
  Just over 30 minutes was all it took I think, from 3:35 to 4:05.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> pre-emptive answer and the last sentence could almost be made into a verse in a rhyme....  hehe...thank you.  I did send you msg without seeing this.  That really helps again.  I guess what I'm hoping to hear is that the E17 will significantly DRIVE the 250ohm dt880s..  What fraction of a FULLY adequate desktop powered amp (to your ears) can the E17 achieve?
> 
> or if you haven't heard it with another fully adequate amp, then can you compare the e17 on paper to this one's specs (which I have heard and was pleased).  http://www.crutchfield.com/S-AnmOJygfCpB/p_252HEDBX2B/Pro-Ject-Head-Box-II-Black.html


 

 The only 'fully adequate' desktop amps that I've listened to significantly are the Fiio E9, my friends Little Dot Hybrid and my Denon AVR-4308CI. Out of these 3, the E9 has seen the most auditioning time. I've gone as far as to use the E9 from a source other than the E17, just so I could evaluate the signature of the E9 itself. I used the line-out (headphone out) of my MacBook Pro and a Rockbox'ed Sansa. On average, and trying to volume match as best possible, I find that I listen to the E9 with it's volume dial between 30% and 50%, depending on source material. Compared to the E17 at a gain of 12dB and a volume of 40 (out of 60), this roughly equates to an E9 volume of about 80% - 85%.
   
  So, in summary, the E9 (and I'm certain 99% of desktop amps) will easily best the E17 in terms of amplifier capability. That said, I'm impressed that I can use a portable device like the E17 and attain roughly the same listening volume and signature as the E9, without maxing out the E17 volume and EQ controls.
   
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed not to work with camera connection kit (and e17).  Still hoping someone can answer my question about L9 and ipad 2 above.  thanks


 

 Not trying to agitate anyone, but I wish people would read the entire thread or do a little searching before commenting on something incorrectly. The E17 can be used with the iPad 2 and the CCK - see post #991 where I got it to work, albeit requiring a USB powered hub.
   
  As for the LOD to use with the iPad 2, you can use the L1, L3, L9, L10 or L30. All will work to bypass the internal amp of the iPad 2, instead using the line out available on the dock connector. The L1 and L3 are the same length but the L3 has gold plated connectors. The L9 is the same length as the L1 & L3, but uses right angle connectors. The L10 is 30 cm long and the L30 is 1 meter long. Which one you choose will depend how you want to try and carry the E17 with it attached to the iPad 2.
   
  One last comment: to those that missed out on the first batch (shipments 1 and 2) of the E17 - Fiio owes you nothing. If you were so seriously interested in getting the E17, you would have pre-ordered as soon as stores were listing it, like I did. If you didn't pre-order, it's likely because you weren't sure and wanted to wait for reviews. The issue of supply and demand is not one that only affects the small companies like Fiio - look at what happened when Nintendo couldn't supply the Wii in sufficient quantities? People waited for them. Admittedly not too patiently, but they waited nonetheless. When I ordered my first headphone DAC/amp, the Headamp Pico, I waited 5 months. Yes, I got anxious at times, but in the end I got what I ordered and it didn't change my opinion of it. Just because you were too short-sighted to get in on the original shipment doesn't mean you have the right to demand updates from the manufacturer. I guess this is just a sign of today's impatient society, most of whom believe that they're entitled to instant gratification.
   
  I know this won't pacify some of you and will aggravate others, but I don't care. I took advantage of the opportunity when it presented itself and was therefore rewarded by receiving my E17 from the 1st batch. For those of you that didn't, grow up, learn some patience or move on. I have...


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 wow, finally getting some answerssss.  Trust me it's not for lack of searching/researching.  I didn't focus as much on the ipad2 dac...but I've been spending STUPID amounts of time....like 15 hours + a day.....keeping me away from my studies and upcoming exams...  Take home message I'm getting is:  The E17 will easily get it to the same listening volumes as E9, but not as good signature/dynamic/driven to the potential as the E9 or other desktop amps.  Again, thank you


----------



## bowei006

This is crazy half an hour. 
   
  WEll Sound Dreamer, hope the E17 lives up to your expectations.


----------



## MrNurse

Well...The E11 dents too easily so I returned it. I wanted something smaller but the A10 won't sound as good. I decided that I'll just go for the E17 when it's back in stock.


----------



## mrAdrian

Those who have both, how far does the DAC section of the E17 improves from the E7? Asking because they both share the same wolfson chip.


----------



## ClieOS

appledappleman said:


> Anyone know how this amp pairs with the little dot mkiii?




Pairing? Isn't the Little Dot already an amp of its own? 



mdyoung216 said:


> Sorry, I disagree.  Having an item for sale that you can't provide doesn't make for happy customers.  The U.S. is probably their biggest market, so I think they need to keep people here happy.  They are also under some obligation to control who is selling their products.  Look how carmakers suffered from crappy dealer service.




You can't stop people from buying stock from authorized dealer and resell it on eBay (or store) for a profit. They also can't make 10k units in the first batch and assume they will all sold out - that kind of risk taking will bring a company down in no time.




mradrian said:


> Those who have both, how far does the DAC section of the E17 improves from the E7? Asking because they both share the same wolfson chip.




Same DAC chip, but everything else is different, down to the implementation. You can expect E17 DAC section to sound more refined and detailed over that of E7.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Pairing? Isn't the Little Dot already an amp of its own?


 


  I assume he asks how the E17 DAC section pairs with Little Dot MKIII.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





roller said:


> I assume he asks how the E17 DAC section pairs with Little Dot MKIII.


 

 It might be a little typing mistake, 'f'air
   
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Same DAC chip, but everything else is different, down to the implementation. You can except E17 DAC section to sound more refined and detailed over that of E7.


 

 Sweet! E17/9 Combo I'm here waiting for you!


----------



## DanXbix

FYI E17 does work with ipad2 with camera connect card and a external powered hub. I used to does this with my uDAC2.  
   
  Connect powered USB Hub To Ipad2 via Camera Con Card
   
  Connect E17 to one of the USB ports on Hub
   
  Connect USB Hub to Ac adaptor for the USB Hub
   
  Turn of battery charging on e17 and you should have a working digital output to e17. Not a portable solution but works


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





roller said:


> I assume he asks how the E17 DAC section pairs with Little Dot MKIII.


 


   


  Quote: 





mradrian said:


> It might be a little typing mistake, 'f'air
> 
> 
> Sweet! E17/9 Combo I'm here waiting for you!


 


  What I'm asking is if I use the E17 as a DAC and the Little Dot MKIII as the amp.


----------



## ClieOS

appledappleman said:


> What I'm asking is if I use the E17 as a DAC and the Little Dot MKIII as the amp.




You will need the L7 for that. I don't know much about the MKIII, but E17's DAC alone is still quite good. The question is, could you find a standalone DAC for the same price with better sound? For $150 and DAC only, you might also want to look into other DAC like HRT Music Stremer II as well.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





danxbix said:


> FYI E17 does work with ipad2 with camera connect card and a external powered hub. I used to does this with my uDAC2.
> 
> Connect powered USB Hub To Ipad2 via Camera Con Card
> 
> ...


 

 good to know.
   
  by the way, if anyone wants to put on on FS or Ebay for profit, i'm sure many people here would pay the premium....i haven't seen one on ebay yet


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You will need the L7 for that. I don't know much about the MKIII, but E17's DAC alone is still quite good. The question is, could you find a standalone DAC for the same price with better sound? For $150 and DAC only, you might also want to look into other DAC like HRT Music Stremer II as well.


 


  Oh well I already got the E17 just ordered it today, but after reading so many reviews for the MKIII and the price of it. I feel sold on it already but if it isn't worth it then I shouldn't. 

 Should i? I'm not running power hungry cans so I don't really need to but if it would improve the sound then by all means


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 what's the price of the mkIII?  what cans are you looking to power?


----------



## AppleDappleman

only around 200. At the moment I only have dt770 80ohms (requires nothing) but I'm just saying for future reference if it would make a good combo once I upgrade headphones one day.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> One last comment: to those that missed out on the first batch (shipments 1 and 2) of the E17 - Fiio owes you nothing. If you were so seriously interested in getting the E17, you would have pre-ordered as soon as stores were listing it, like I did.


 
   
  Excuse me, but a few of those people that missed out on the first batch and did pre-order, [size=small]particularly[/size] with mp4nation, received nothing but a sorry ass notification that their order did not ship out and had been moved to maybe the next release date. Personally, this is the reason why I finally cancelled my order with them in the first place. Though, in hindsight, I'm glad I did so I could eventually purchase locally. Initially, I felt MiccaStore was wrong in not having pre-ordering available but after awhile, I started thinking that they had the best method. Simply, if we don't have it, we don't ship it. Plus, first come, first serve. I really feel sorry for all the other people that had to suffer through a longer promised waiting pre-order period, only to find that they get nothing.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Excuse me, but a few of those people that missed out on the first batch and did pre-order, [size=small]particularly[/size] with mp4nation, received nothing but a sorry ass notification that their order did not ship out and had been moved to maybe the next release date. Personally, this is the reason why I finally cancelled my order with them in the first place. Though, in hindsight, I'm glad I did so I could eventually purchase locally. Initially, I felt MiccaStore was wrong in not having pre-ordering available but after awhile, I started thinking that they had the best method. Simply, if we don't have it, we don't ship it. Plus, first come, first serve. I really feel sorry for all the other people that had to suffer through a longer promised waiting pre-order period, only to find that they get nothing.


 

 I would be one of those people. I pre-ordered a little late, on the 11th. Yet the mp4nation website did not say I was a part of the second batch until I ordered.


----------



## hyogen

since we were on the topic of iphones and DACs and android/voodoo ...here's something i found:
   
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd7-review-542p6.php#aq
   
  looks like gsmarena does sound tests..      sorry to derail the thread a little.
   
   
  FYI,   Mp4nation emailed me back after I told them about how miccastore had just sold in-stock E17s yesterday...  they said that those were most likely from the first batch, not the 2nd batch.........  but he seemed to contradict himself by saying that they got in another shipment recently, but they went to fulfilling the outstanding 1st preorders.


----------



## Roller

Quote:  





> FYI,   Mp4nation emailed me back after I told them about how miccastore had just sold in-stock E17s yesterday...  they said that those were most likely from the first batch, not the 2nd batch.........  but he seemed to contradict himself by saying that they got in another shipment recently, but they went to fulfilling the outstanding 1st preorders.


 


  It's natural for mp4nation to want to hold on to as many customers as possible


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> since we were on the topic of iphones and DACs and android/voodoo ...here's something i found:
> 
> http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hd7-review-542p6.php#aq
> 
> looks like gsmarena does sound tests..      sorry to derail the thread a little.


 


  iPhone 4 seems to measure very well. Hmmmm.


----------



## Etrips

I swear trying to get ahold of a E17 is harder than an iPad2 on launch day lol!


----------



## Roller

One day, audiophilia will be commonplace and "in" to the point of people being in line for weeks waiting for the newest Amp/DAC/Headphones/Speaker set, and when that day comes, everywhere will people rejoice by listening to details in music that they never had before


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





roller said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





uelover said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  i missed the micca deal by sleeping in late.........because of reading head-fi until the wee hours of the morning......  woohoo....missed it by 30 minutes!!!@#$@#$


----------



## mdyoung216

Quote:


roller said:


> It's natural for mp4nation to want to hold on to as many customers as possible


 

  
  I was able to place an order yesterday for an E17, so I contacted MP4Nation to cancel my order with them.  Go an e-mail saying the order was cancelled, but takes 5 to 7 days for a refund.  I have bought over a 1000 item off Ebay and it doesn't take 5 to 7 days for a refund through PayPal.  The Micca Store sent me a tracking number, but of course USPS has no record of it.  So until I have an E17 in my hand I don't believe anyone actually has one for sale.


----------



## SniperCzar

I for one appreciate that Micca doesn't take money towards preorders like some of the other stores. That alone made it worth waiting and hitting refresh for almost an hour as I'll probably get one now instead of getting pushed back. If I wanted to make a down payment on something with months and months of lead time, I'd go to kickstarter 

 As for the rest of you guys, good luck with the next batch. Try not to let the other stores shaft you too much by making it hard to get back your preorder money. If they won't even tell you whether your preorder is going to be fulfilled by the next shipment, just cancel and find somewhere else that can be bothered to do so. Consumer power.


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





mdyoung216 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I was able to place an order yesterday for an E17, so I contacted MP4Nation to cancel my order with them.  Go an e-mail saying the order was cancelled, but takes 5 to 7 days for a refund.  I have bought over a 1000 item off Ebay and it doesn't take 5 to 7 days for a refund through PayPal.  The Micca Store sent me a tracking number, but of course USPS has no record of it.  So until I have an E17 in my hand I don't believe anyone actually has one for sale.


 
   
  Unfortunately USPS is notorious for having terrible tracking information. When my E11 was delivered I received an email notification that they delivered it the day AFTER it arrived at my house. Even after receiving that notification, the tracking number still showed it wasn't delivered. 
   
  In this case, the label was probably created last night and USPS wouldn't be picking the packages up until today. Usually until they pick it up, scan it and start sorting - no tracking info will be available.


----------



## SniperCzar

Hey, for those of you with Android devices who are getting an E17, you may want to check this feature request out so we can use USB host with DACs: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Excuse me, but a few of those people that missed out on the first batch and did pre-order, [size=small]particularly[/size] with mp4nation, received nothing but a sorry ass notification that their order did not ship out and had been moved to maybe the next release date. Personally, this is the reason why I finally cancelled my order with them in the first place. Though, in hindsight, I'm glad I did so I could eventually purchase locally. Initially, I felt MiccaStore was wrong in not having pre-ordering available but after awhile, I started thinking that they had the best method. Simply, if we don't have it, we don't ship it. Plus, first come, first serve. I really feel sorry for all the other people that had to suffer through a longer promised waiting pre-order period, only to find that they get nothing.


 

 Again, read what I wrote - I said Fiio owes you nothing. They've been extremely co-operative by participating in this thread, but in no way can they be held responsible for the availability of their products through their dealers. mp4nation and other dealers are to blame for taking pre-orders without notifying users of the expected delivery issues. Fiio did what any company does with a new product: manufactures an initial batch to determine if the product is marketable and desired. They don't sell direct and instead rely on a dealer network. It's unfortunate that users got hooked by dealer(s) with somewhat annoying business practices, but again, that's not Fiio's fault.
   
  One other thing that has been stated but apparently still misunderstood: Fiio made two shipments with the first batch - the first shipment before Chinese New Year and the second shipment after enough staff were back at work to complete the rest of batch #1. Some dealers continued to take pre-orders even though they hadn't filled their pre-orders from batch #1. Those dealers did this without Fiio's knowledge, purely to take advantage of the reputation that the E17 gained from those of us that did order well before the 1st batch shipped. Fiio has since notified us that a second batch is underway with delivery and expected sales to resume in mid-March. If we assume Jan. 24th as the start of sales for the 1st batch, it won't even be two months by mid-March for the second batch. As I mentioned in my other message, people need to learn a little patience and place the blame where it lies - with the dealers that acted poorly.
   
  Be assured that when you do get your E17, you'll listen to it and with any luck, you too will be as satisfied as other early adopters. If not, and I'm certain that the E17 won't appeal to everyone, you will most likely be able to sell your E17, possibly even with a  monetary gain.
   
  Lastly, for those still waiting for answers to their questions of 'how will the E17 sound with headphone xxx?' or 'how does the E17 compare to amp/DAC yyy?' - please realize that we are very early in the product cycle of the E17. Not enough of them are out there at this point for people to have tested the enormous number of headphone/IEM models. Yes, the more common models have been tested and impressions shared, but that's the other really big thing to remember: what you read on this and other forums are impressions from users that have had the opportunity to use the E17. These impressions were formed by their ears and brains, not yours. Read all the comments and impressions you like, but only you can be the judge of whether the product is crap, simply meets your needs or finally provides the ear-gasm that you've been longing for.


----------



## bowei006

Great things to add by Agent and sounddreamer
   
  I want to note for the lurkers and members that did order. That i also didnt get updates from usps. Heck i got the notification for out for delivery and arrival the day after i received it. Look in ur mail every day from day 5-7 haha


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> ...but in no way can they be held responsible for the availability of their products through their dealers. mp4nation and other dealers are to blame for taking pre-orders without notifying users of the expected delivery issues...


 


  As I posted earlier, my reply from mp4nation when asked about this matter was:
   
   
  "*I am sorry that the E17 are delayed but the issue with their production is beyond our control.*"
   
   
  At no point has Fiio said any of the retailers have/are doing anything wrong, so I'm not quite sure who is at fault here.


----------



## l00l

I need an amp/DAC *mainly* (90 %, movies, gaming) for my TV (digtal cable box, blu ray, xbox), bit of MacBook (TVs and music) and iPod/iPhone. 
   
  Do you think the E17 is for me? I got the E6 right now and plan on ordering E17.
   
  thx


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Again, read what I wrote - I said Fiio owes you nothing.


 

 Firstly and lastly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you need to lighten up slick. Some of your Posts on this Thread seem way to confrontational. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For the record, I did in no way put the blame on Fiio for not receiving my E17 from mp4nation.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I need an amp/DAC *mainly* (90 %, movies, gaming) for my TV (digtal cable box, blu ray, xbox), bit of MacBook (TVs and music) and iPod/iPhone.
> 
> Do you think the E17 is for me? I got the E6 right now and plan on ordering E17.
> 
> thx


 


  ....i don't get it. the 90% is for all of tht. or 90% for the movies and gaming from PC? if so...then a desktop set might be better. Tube Magic D1 anyone?? anyone? i wanted to give it a listen but yet to. it's a top DAC and amp for desktops at the price range. anybody think different? don't know. just putting some product out there.


----------



## DanXbix

get mine today so will let you all know how it sounds. Hopefully it will be great for my Pro700mk2s and a great DAC
   
  For any Aussies wanting one checkout Ebay http://myworld.ebay.com.au/soundsightfocus029/&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2754
   
  they are a authorised dealer and have stock!


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ....i don't get it. the 90% is for all of tht. or 90% for the movies and gaming from PC? if so...then a desktop set might be better. Tube Magic D1 anyone?? anyone? i wanted to give it a listen but yet to. it's a top DAC and amp for desktops at the price range. anybody think different? don't know. just putting some product out there.


 


  90 % for movies and gaming (Xbox), but from TV, not PC! 10 % ipod, MacBook.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> 90 % for movies and gaming (Xbox), but from TV, not PC! 10 % ipod, MacBook.


 


  hmm. i know the xbox has optical out and TV's sometimes do too. if you want to use the E17 for those two then it seems fine. it can also be used portably..hm


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hmm. i know the xbox has optical out and TV's sometimes do too. if you want to use the E17 for those two then it seems fine. it can also be used portably..hm


 


  My TV has no optical or coaxial out, my blu ray player (coaxial) xbox and cable box (both optical) do.
   
  The point is: Is there a (non portable) amp that is either cheaper than the E17 but offers the same quality/features or one that is about the same price of the E17 but with better quality/features. If not, I am going to get the E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> My TV has no optical or coaxial out, my blu ray player (coaxial) xbox and cable box (both optical) do.
> 
> The point is: Is there a (non portable) amp that is either cheaper than the E17 but offers the same quality/features or one that is about the same price of the E17 but with better quality/features. If not, I am going to get the E17.


 


  E7, D-zero. same features..but like the CLIEOS review said. obsolete compared to E17..from what i am getting at really. i thought of a dedicated desktop model..but of course that wont' work for you.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> E7, D-zero. same features..but like the CLIEOS review said. obsolete compared to E17..from what i am getting at really. i thought of a dedicated desktop model..but of course that wont' work for you.


 


  So E17 then? I will be using it with a pair of Beyerdynamic 990 pro headphones.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> So E17 then? I will be using it with a pair of Beyerdynamic 990 pro headphones.


 


  what ohms? i tried the Beyers at 80 ohms and they work absolutley fine and great with E17. 250 ohm it seems from other comments also works, but just enough. i've only tried 80 ohms so i can tell you that.
   
  there are cheaper solutions really if you just need a Wolfson DAC. what you are paying from E7 and D-Zero, is the sonic differences of teh amp. which do make up a lot of what you hear.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 250 ohm seems to "work"........  you're scaring me Bowei, scaring me -_-


----------



## l00l

250 ohm, yes. you think the E17 is not powerfull enough?


----------



## bowei006

i didn't say that. i have read many posts on the E17 being just enough for the 250 ohms. well not the E17 but the E11. the e17 has more power and control in high gain as opposed to E11 so it should work. use the search option or google the 250 ohm beyers with E11. there should also have been people that have gotten that answered already.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i didn't say that. i have read many posts on the E17 being just enough for the 250 ohms. well not the E17 but the E11. the e17 has more power and control in high gain as opposed to E11 so it should work. use the search option or google the 250 ohm beyers with E11. there should also have been people that have gotten that answered already.


 


  Maybe somebody who has the E17 and uses it with the Beyer 990 pro can comment on that! Would be great.
   
  But what would mean it "works" anyway? I mean, if it works everything is great. At least that´s my definition of the word.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Maybe somebody who has the E17 and uses it with the Beyer 990 pro can comment on that! Would be great.
> 
> But what would mean it "works" anyway? I mean, if it works everything is great. At least that´s my definition of the word.


 

 sorry. bad wording again. Their are many 250 ohm beyer owners with E11. you should look around at that and use it as a very accurate indicator.


----------



## l00l

I use the 990 pro 250 ohm with the Fiio E6 right now and it seems to work just fine. Obviously I can not say how it would work with other headphones though. But the E6 brings up the volume considerably and doesn´t sound strange or something in any way. And I would assume that with the E17 everything will be just better.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





geak said:


> As I posted earlier, my reply from mp4nation when asked about this matter was:
> 
> 
> "*I am sorry that the E17 are delayed but the issue with their production is beyond our control.*"
> ...


 

 In my mind, it's the dealer that's at fault when they take a pre-order for a product that a) they don't have stock for and b) that they don't know when they will receive stock. I dealt with Headphone Bar as one of Fiio's authorized Canadian dealers. They were very forthcoming when taking my pre-order. They let me know that they didn't have stock and couldn't confirm when I would receive my product. I was very keen to receive the E17 (and E9; I ordered a bundle of both) so I kept emailing them and they always kept me informed as to the status. It arrived within one business day of what they stated, but I blame the one day delay on the post office, not the dealer.
   
  Alas it seems that mp4nation and possibly other dealers aren't as forthcoming and instead try to entice as many orders as possible, with no way of being able to fulfill them and maintain customer happiness. It's too bad - I've heard decent things about them and their pricing and deals are certainly attractive. Instead I'll take a dealer that's upfront and always ready to answer my questions any day. Buying 'local' definitely had its advantages this time around.
   
  Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Firstly and lastly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Believe me, I have lightened up. Admittedly, it's very hard to read inflection in a typewritten post. If you heard me recite the text as written, you'd realize I could care less and am pretty far from being confrontational. Just trying to be informative and keep things straight - it seems that the biggest problem with forums like Head-Fi is trying to keep people on track (myself included) and getting people to actually read what's already been written about a given product. And yes, you did change your post to state mp4nation, not Fiio... my comment was not directed at you alone - it was a launching point to respond to all those who did want to blame Fiio. I really have no reason to care - after all, they're in business and can defend themselves, but I hate seeing blame placed where it's not deserved.
   
  I truly wish we lived in a world where instant gratification was a reality and we wouldn't have anything to complain about, but we all know that'll never happen. As long as Head-Fi exists and we continue to read these threads, our wallets will keep shrinking and our anticipation will keep growing.


----------



## koremora

I'm having issues with my e17. Every once in a while, I start getting a ton of static and crackling feedback noise, and it only goes away if I unplug the unit and turn it off before re-inserting the USB. Even then, sometimes it takes a few tries. Anyone else having this issue? Also, sometimes when I try to watch a YouTube video, the sound will not work unless I do these steps and reload the page repeatedly.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





koremora said:


> I'm having issues with my e17. Every once in a while, I start getting a ton of static and crackling feedback noise, and it only goes away if I unplug the unit and turn it off before re-inserting the USB. Even then, sometimes it takes a few tries. Anyone else having this issue? Also, sometimes when I try to watch a YouTube video, the sound will not work unless I do these steps and reload the page repeatedly.


 


  the only crackling i get is when i am in SPDIF mode and unplugging and or pluggin in the optical cable. nobody else is reporting this problem. it could be your computer..believe me..many times it is the computer.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> the only crackling i get is when i am in SPDIF mode and unplugging and or pluggin in the optical cable. nobody else is reporting this problem. it could be your computer..believe me..many times it is the computer.


 


  To be fair it could be the same as the crackling and static reported pages back by me and a few others.  Seems to be a USB latency issue IMO.


----------



## xxhaxx

Try updating your audio driver


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> In my mind, it's the dealer that's at fault when they take a pre-order for a product that a) they don't have stock for and b) that they don't know when they will receive stock.


 


 Hmm, I assumed Fiio would have told the dealers that they would supply X amount of units on whatever date.
   
  Feiao also gave dates of availability in this thread, which were later pushed back.
   
  I'm trying not to make a huge deal out of this as I believe both sides are partially at fault. It's a little annoying however when it seems as soon as anyone utters a negative word about Fiio they get jumped on.
   
  Believe it or not I am still a fan of Fiio as well as a consumer, though this is an unfortunate situation. It would help a lot if myself and all the other people waiting could get some concrete information. I've PM'd both Cathy and Feiao as well as numerous retailers and recieved nothing of signifigance.
   
  I'd really like to know when mp4nation is due to receive their next shipment, and how many units it will contain.


----------



## bjornb

Quote: 





koremora said:


> I'm having issues with my e17. Every once in a while, I start getting a ton of static and crackling feedback noise, and it only goes away if I unplug the unit and turn it off before re-inserting the USB. Even then, sometimes it takes a few tries. Anyone else having this issue? Also, sometimes when I try to watch a YouTube video, the sound will not work unless I do these steps and reload the page repeatedly.


 

  
  Same happens with mine occasionally, but it works immediately again unplugging and reinserting usb. It happens only when using it with USB on my laptop, never when using line out from iPad or hi-fi using AUX input.


----------



## SniperCzar

Anybody check if it's some sort of power standby on the USB port? Could be a Windows or BIOS issue, either one.


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





geak said:


> I'd really like to know when mp4nation is due to receive their next shipment, and how many units it will contain.


 


  I believe Feiao said earlier in the thread that the next shipment is in early March and would be about 5,000 units.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





geak said:


> Hmm, I assumed Fiio would have told the dealers that they would supply X amount of units on whatever date.
> 
> Feiao also gave dates of availability in this thread, which were later pushed back.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not trying to aggravate you, just inform you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Re-reading the thread I can find no evidence of the dates being pushed back. In post #1019 Feiao mentioned that batch 1 consisted of 2 shipments, the first of which arrived at dealers during the week of Jan. 20th. The 2nd half of batch #1 is just arriving at dealers now. Batch #2 has always been stated as shipping from Fiio by middle March, to be available for sale at dealers by the end of March - see post #1478. There are other dates quoted in the thread but they were posts from other forum members talking about dates they got from their respective dealers - heck, those other dates even confused me.
   
  Also note that in post #1545 Feiao announced that batch #1 contained 1000 units and batch #2 will contain 5000 units. It was also stated that there is a lead time of about 1.5 months between batch #1 and batch #2. Based on these posts, it doesn't look like there has been any delay on Fiio's end, other than the delay expected by Chinese New Year. As for when mp4nation is due to receive their next shipment, hopefully they'll have received some soon from the 2nd half of batch #1. Hopefully you pre-ordered early enough from mp4nation that you'll get yours from the 2nd half of batch #1. If not, unfortunately you'll have to wait until batch #2 arrives at dealers and starts shipping to customers at the end of March.
   
  Hope that helps clarify, but as you and others have seen, this thread has become remarkably difficult to follow with people misinterpreting comments and not reading the comments as written. Regardless, when you get yours, you'll hopefully have a lot of fun with it. I'm certainly enjoying mine - just had a great experience listening to some old ELO from a decent FLAC rip. Awesome stuff!


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> In my mind, it's the dealer that's at fault when they take a pre-order for a product that a) they don't have stock for and b) that they don't know when they will receive stock.


----------



## JamesFiiO

E17 ALPEN launched CNET  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57381659-47/fiios-tiny-and-extraordinary-sounding-headphone-amplifiers/?tag=cnetRiver


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I'm not trying to aggravate you, just inform you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your help. to everyone who still waiting for our ALPEN, we are so sorry for that. We will consider to release our new model in the future till we finish mass production and prepare enough stock.


----------



## Zankes

Can I use this amp for my ipod and laptop? If so do I need to buy the L line dock what ever the cable thingy?


----------



## RoadKam

(New user post, skip as necessary)
   
  First, a HUGE thank you to feiao, bowie006, ClieOS, Jack-Micca, AgentXXL, and all the others that have made this thread informative, sometimes entertaining, and (almost) always even tempered. Yes, I've read the whole thread. (SoundDreamer - I'm glad you stuck with it long enough to finally get an E17 ordered!)
   
  I drive a truck (I pulled off at a rest stop at 3PM EST and got my wi-fi going so I could get my order in for the E17 at the micca site... successfully I'm glad to say!) I got a notification today (22nd) that it has cleared the USPS sorting in Virginia.
   
  In my free time I've been organizing a lot of mp3s I've downloaded over the years using J. Rivers Media Center. I listened to The Beatles 1 album and it sucked rocks. I didn't remember it being like that, so I downloaded a 320 version. Better, but it still blared in the vocal range and washed out the instruments. I played with my laptop's sound controls and got it sounding better, but still bad. Well, long story short I started really listening to other albums as I organized them, and figured I needed better headphones. I searched the web (I'm a black-belt level googler) and came up with AKG K702s. I ordered them, and then decided I wanted more control over what drives them. So I looked for a headphone pre-amp. I was about to get a small desktop amp from (I can't remember the company name, starts with k) and was looking into their replaceable op-amps. (Rolling I believe they called it, as in roll your own.)
   
  Well, then I saw a review for the Alpen and fell in love.  (I'm a die-hard nut for new stuff.) That was about midnight on Feb 20. I searched the sites that FiiO sells through and found them unhelpful and messy. I found the tweet telling about them shipping a bunch to micca though, so I sent an e-mail to micca asking when they'd be available. Went to bed. Next morning, I continued looking for reviews on the Alpen and found the tweet about 3PM Eastern. My trip for the day kept me on the highway, so I was able to pull off at 3PM and spam the site... and I got one. 
   
  Knowing how I am, I know I'm going to get into FLAC etc which means I'll have to buy a sixth and seventh 2 terabyte external drive from Walmart (I think my first download will be Norah Jones Sunrise) and I'm really impressed with the people here. So, once my cans and amp get here, I'm going to post how the E17 sounds, how long it takes the K702s to settle in and how the sound changes, and all that stuff.
   
  By the way, there were a couple of people asking about the K701 line and the E17... there was a post from someone who has both in this thread and he said they sounded great. From the review I saw, the guy felt that using the dock amp with the E17 pushed the lows and highs up too much (can't remember what phones he had.) So I think I'll leave the E17 by itself. Eventually I'll likely get whatever FiiO upgrades their dock amp to... I'll likely be off the road by then and back to a desktop. Then I'll want an amp to drive a satellite surround setup. The E17 will always be there when I go out on road trips though.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Forgive my ignorance here people, but I have a few questions (sorry for that). I am going to be using my DT 770 80 ohm with a 5th Gen iPod, which is supposed to have a good DAC in it (at least compared to newer generations of iPods). If I purchased an E17, would the DAC even be used with the iPod, or does the iPod DAC do the conversion? I admit my ignorance freely. My other related question would be this: is the DAC in the iPod I mentioned (5th gen Video) good enough that I could simply purchase the E11 and be just as well ahead? I notice the E17s are in backorder, but the E11 is available from the Canadian distributor. Any thoughts are appreciated, I have never bothered to learn much about portable rigs and I need to catch up. Cheers.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> Try updating your audio driver


 


  Trust me... I have tried every thing under the sun.  Including an updated driver set (nope), Windows x64 instead of x86 (nope), Ubuntu (works), and using ASIO in Windows (made it worse).  Though changing latency in ASIO changed the type of static, it never eliminated it.  I assume it is just a latency issue on my USB host.


----------



## mister2d

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Trust me... I have tried every thing under the sun.  Including an updated driver set (nope), Windows x64 instead of x86 (nope), Ubuntu (works), and using ASIO in Windows (made it worse).  Though changing latency in ASIO changed the type of static, it never eliminated it.  I assume it is just a latency issue on my USB host.


 


  Still happening huh? Have you ever encountered it using the optical input? I'm not hearing the noise anymore using optical.


----------



## RoadKam

@gohanssjn Go into the power options and set it to high performance (or whatever equivalent you can find.) This is a shot in the dark...


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *AgentXXL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hope that helps clarify, but as you and others have seen, this thread has become remarkably difficult to follow with people misinterpreting comments and not reading the comments as written.


 
   
  Excellent post, that helped explain a lot.
   
  I was getting confused/frustrated as originally advancedmp3players were advertising pre-orders for the 2nd of Feb, which later changed to the 16th of March.
   
  At the same time mp4nation were advertising pre-orders for the middle of Feb, which later changed to March. I believe they did receive some units, but these went to the people who pre-ordered and didn't receive one the first time round.
   
  Hopefully I'll hear something from mp4nation soon, I'm considering placing a pre-order at advancedmp3players too as a back up.


----------



## gEaK

Wow so it's back in stock at Amazon UK being sold by "AVShop" but it's £35 ($55) more expensive than mp4nation. As tempting as it is I'm not going for it out of principle.
   
  Strangely too, the original price before the "saving" is listed as being £183 ($286) more than *double* the price at mp4nation, crazy.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





mister2d said:


> Still happening huh? Have you ever encountered it using the optical input? I'm not hearing the noise anymore using optical.


 


  My laptop does not have optical.  USB or headphone jack only.
   
  Desktop works fine.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> @gohanssjn Go into the power options and set it to high performance (or whatever equivalent you can find.) This is a shot in the dark...


 


  Tried, no change.  It's something base level on this laptop.


----------



## bowei006

@zankesThe e17 and really any to most external amp would work with a two way male 3.5mm cable. The e17 includes so no. However an lod is highly recommended. Due to its cheap price and audio signal improvement

@sonic defenderWhen used as an amp with ipods only the amps in the e17 r in use. Ur ipods dac will do all the heavy digital to analog lifting. If u JUST need an amo the e11 will fit u as an e17 amp equivalent. The e17 is for those that want the computeruse dac and mutilpe input capability. the e17 can be used with ipad through camera connection kit AND powered usb hun thanks to agent xxl for this info and testing

@roadkam
Thanks for the info man.! I love reading stories like urs!! I hope u enjoy it and haha site spamming. Micca probably thought it was an ddos. Wait no.. Its a couple thousand head fiers spamming the site maaking sure they grt one! Prepare defenses.
When i went on at 8 the site still felt laggy and slow loading than usual so some poor souls must still have been trying


----------



## Y2HBK

*Really *wish micca would add different shipping options rather than just what is available via the carrier. If the tracking info is correct, (which I know it sometimes isn't, as USPS is terrible with tracking) in the past 2 1/2 days my shipment has moved a grand total of 16 miles. UPS ground from their shipping location to my home is 1 day.
   
  It may be up to date and accurate, however. When I ordered my E11, it was ordered Monday early AM and delivered to my home Friday afternoon.


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> *Really *wish micca would add different shipping options rather than just what is available via the carrier. If the tracking info is correct, (which I know it sometimes isn't, as USPS is terrible with tracking) in the past 2 1/2 days my shipment has moved a grand total of 16 miles. UPS ground from their shipping location to my home is 1 day.
> 
> It may be up to date and accurate, however. When I ordered my E11, it was ordered Monday early AM and delivered to my home Friday afternoon.


 


  At least your order is shipped... Complaining about a 1-2 day difference is pretty petty imo.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @sonic defenderWhen used as an amp with ipods only the amps in the e17 r in use. Ur ipods dac will do all the heavy digital to analog lifting. If u JUST need an amo the e11 will fit u as an e17 amp equivalent. The e17 is for those that want the computeruse dac and mutilpe input capability. the e17 can be used with ipad through camera connection kit AND powered usb hun thanks to agent xxl for this info and testing


 

 So this means if I plug the E17 into the audio out (red and white) of my TV there will be no DAC in use? Only over USB??


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





etrips said:


> At least your order is shipped... Complaining about a 1-2 day difference is pretty petty imo.


 
   
  I apologize if I have offended you. I see that as an area of personal growth for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There is a difference between "complaining" and making a statement. Next time don't read between the lines and try to think about the fact that when you seen information that is typewritten versus spoken verbally, you can't always fully understand the context or tone in which its being written. I could just as easily assume the context of your post and state its pretty petty to make a post "complaining" about someone "complaining." Guess thats why it's "your opinion." Food for thought.


----------



## bowei006

@l00l
  going from your tvs audio rca outputs into a 3.5cable and then into the e17 using AUX input mode will only use thr amp and not DAC. If ur TV or receiver has coaxil or optical out it should work with the e17s dac. Usb with those devices is a bit more tricky
   
  My e17 shipped later than a nother user that ordered on micca after me. Dont worry guys. It will ship and arrive


----------



## mpp

Has anyone tried the E17 with HifiMan HE-500s?  I intended to use the E17 with HE-400s, but then my HE-400s had a right channel malfunction, and I opted for HifiMan's generous HE-500 upgrade.  I understand the HE-500s require a little more power than the HE-400s, so I'm wondering if I should cancel my pre-order for the E17 and look for something else.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## skyline315

Interesting review by Guttenberg.  He didn't really think the E17 had enough to properly drive 300 ohm cans, which makes me wonder how they'll pair with the dt880 250 ohms. 
   
  Now I've got to decide if I want to get this to pair with an E9 or just look at a simpler/less portable option.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Thanks for the clarification bowei006. I am about to order the E11, but waiting to see how my repair of a shorted iPod headphone jack goes first. Man I hate waiting, but if I order the E11 I have no source. Delayed gratification sucks, my ID is very persuasive.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @l00l
> going from your tvs audio rca outputs into a 3.5cable and then into the e17 using AUX input mode will only use thr amp and not DAC. If ur TV or receiver has coaxil or optical out it should work with the e17s dac. Usb with those devices is a bit more tricky
> 
> My e17 shipped later than a nother user that ordered on micca after me. Dont worry guys. It will ship and arrive


 

 TV has no gital outputs, but Blu Ray player has (coaxial) as well as Xbox and cable box (optical).
  What difference will it make in sound quality if DAC is usable or not?


----------



## duyu

Report again, about the battery life
   
  According to foobar2000, I have played since the first complete charging (using my samsung mobile charger) for 50hours. There are still 3/5 power left!
   
  My setting is E17(usb charging off & lo-bypass)+E9+HD600
   
  I expect in the end it can last for at least 100 hours.
  So, there is indeed no reason to turn the usb charging on if you are pairing the E17 with E9.
   
  Hope this is helpful.


----------



## bowei006

l00l said:


> TV has no gital outputs, but Blu Ray player has (coaxial) as well as Xbox and cable box (optical).
> What difference will it make in sound quality if DAC is usable or not?




Im not sure coaxil and optical guaranttees that u r getting a straight digital source as i am more into conputers but ur blu ray player, xbox and cable boxs coaxil out and optical should be pure pc m. Using the wolfson will not give u immensley better sound. It really depends on how much of an audiophile u r. If u r using headphones the seperation, depth of many things will be improved but the wolfson is generally not used for that stuff. The cable box... Garbage in grbage out. Same with xbox. But blu ray. That should give u a nice boost with wolfson

Really it all comes down to , if u want that increase in sound for those sources and how incremental u want it. Every person is differet


----------



## bowei006

sonic defender said:


> Thanks for the clarification bowei006. I am about to order the E11, but waiting to see how my repair of a shorted iPod headphone jack goes first. Man I hate waiting, but if I order the E11 I have no source. Delayed gratification sucks, my ID is very persuasive.




Like i have said before. I recommend an lod. An lod is used by .. Really all audiophiles that have an ipod( theres others but i would confuse u so much and im on mobile) the lod, is cheap by fiio and the l3,l9 or l10 is recommended. Not l1. The lods bypass ur ipods internal headphone amp and headphone jack circuitry so it doesnt matter if urs is damaged. It plugs into the dock connector and sends a clear signal free of most hiss, noise, distortion caused by dual amping to ur external amp. They are highly recomended. Audio signal improvement is significatn and the reason why i use the word highly recommended is price. The lods by fiio are generally $10.

Get one with the e11. But remeber, i dont know anything about ur headphones or anything. All i know is that u just need an amp. Made a personal descision on e17 but now knows its probably not for u. Tge amps arent for everyone. Ppl with "lesser" priced geberally dont need one. There are exepyions depending on ur ear


Sorry guys i cant dual quote . Im on mobile an its just hard to do stuff


----------



## MickeyVee

I was surprised at how well the E17 drives my HD650.. definitely not to their potential but surprisingly well even with Gain at 0. Not sure about the DT880/250 but if the amping requirements are similar, it should be OK.
  
  Quote: 





skyline315 said:


> Interesting review by Guttenberg.  He didn't really think the E17 had enough to properly drive 300 ohm cans, which makes me wonder how they'll pair with the dt880 250 ohms.
> 
> Now I've got to decide if I want to get this to pair with an E9 or just look at a simpler/less portable option.


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I was surprised at how well the E17 drives my HD650.. definitely not to their potential but surprisingly well even with Gain at 0. Not sure about the DT880/250 but if the amping requirements are similar, it should be OK.


 


 Yep.  I'm thinking the will drive them acceptably.  The question is whether or not I can get better performance out of my 880s at a similar or slightly higher price-point.  I've also been looking at the HUD-MX1 quite seriously.


----------



## AgentXXL

skyline315 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm very happy with the performance of my E17 with my 250 ohm DT770s. I run at a gain of 12dB and a volume of 40 for the high end of my listening, so that still leaves me with some headroom to make it absurdly loud. As it stands, 40 @ 12dB is plenty loud enough (far too loud if I consulted an audiologist) while still showing detail and clarity. I suspect you'll be satisfied with the E17 for your DT880s.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## l00l

Are those Fiio products dropping in price after release? I could get the E17 for € 138 right now on amazon, instead of € 148. Good deal?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Are those Fiio products dropping in price after release? I could get the E17 for € 138 right now on amazon, instead of € 148. Good deal?


 


  i guess you can say that. fiio E17 was always $145 in US that's about 109 euro


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i guess you can say that. fiio E17 was always $145 in US that's about 109 euro


 

 FYI: You're about $5.00 too much. I've never seen it over $140.00 for sale.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> FYI: You're about $5.00 too much. I've never seen it over $140.00 for sale.


 

  
  ??really? i bought mine for $140 as well. but i would guess more sold it more. but you know what i mean right sounddreamer.... a couple off there and here as an aprox..
   
  anyway..ill try not to add useless noise comments like these and focus on just answering questions


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i guess you can say that. fiio E17 was always $145 in US that's about 109 euro


 


  Question was more torwards how Fiio products are priced over time. Are they dropping in price within their first few weeks of release or are they pretty stable (like apple products)?
  I know that it´s cheaper in $, but what they seem to do is, that they simply change the symbol in front of the number and swap $ 149 to € 149. That´s what Apple does as well, kinda.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Question was more torwards how Fiio products are priced over time. Are they dropping in price within their first few weeks of release or are they pretty stable (like apple products)?
> I know that it´s cheaper in $, but what they seem to do is, that they simply change the symbol in front of the number and swap $ 149 to € 149. That´s what Apple does as well, kinda.


 


  FiiO products generally go down in price.....by a tiny bit... manufactureres set the final price to it and from what i can see. the price goes down..but not alot. currently E7 is about $11 cheaper than when first launched...in the U.S . im gonna guess it was $95 instead of $100 on mp4nation as they like to do that. E11 is still the same price and E10 is $20 cheaper. the E5's price even now is only dollars lower than when it first launched and the E6... from what i see it was "supposed" to sell at $60? yeah right. that's just a amazon gimmick. the E6 also sold and went down a few dollars from first start.
   
  im gonna say $130......maybe in a few months?
  awkwardsmile.jpg
   
  they don't JUST SWAP the sign. like converting japenese yen to usd where you just take away two zero's its a very general system. goods in Europe are generally priced more, customs, shipping etc and it just so happened to be that they just made it E149 or something. it's not always like this. but ur right, it's a little funny system or general occurance.


----------



## rainblack

*Warning : potential nooB question here*
   
  I just got my Fiio E17 and I'm loving it; simple usage with AUX and Sansa Clip+ gives amazing results with every headphone I have.
   
  BUT when it comes to my computers and using it's DAC features... I'm not too sure what's best.
  I know using the headphone jack with AUX isn't the way to go.
  But if my computer has a crappy (50-70$) soundcard and digital out... should I try to plug it Optical/SPDIF in my soundcard, or simply use the USB directly?
   
  Thanks !


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rainblack said:


> *Warning : potential nooB question here*
> 
> I just got my Fiio E17 and I'm loving it; simple usage with AUX and Sansa Clip+ gives amazing results with every headphone I have.
> 
> ...


 


  it is known that the soundcards will do two things:
  add their own DSP and effects to teh PCM didgital stream.(like EAX and surround sound effects, some want it[gamers]. most don't)
  or just give you a untouched stream of data.
   
  most are the second. so it would be best with the soundcard as teh e17 allows for up to 192KHz/24bit
   
  however..does it really matter that one's 192 and the other's 96?....not really not. unless you are a legit audiophile some time in the future with 192KHz tracks that you just wnat to play. it won't really matter. if USB is much easier for you. go for that. TECHINICALLY S/PDIF is better but you don't really need to use it. when you start joining the "leagues" THEN you can start using S/PDIF . it's kinda like having a upgrade on hand already. when you start knowing your stuff you read around head fi one day and see things abotu pro audio or you get some tracks form HD tracks that are really good. you look at the E17. smile and go. i got some 192KHz love 
   
   
  some audiophiles swwear and like to use 192KHz more. but most regular people don't. if USB is easier, do that. your soundcard probably gives a non cmpromised stream of PCM data though. in semi rare cases with driver errors or the card has problems. that stream could have "tainting" problems(taining is not an audiophile term, it's one i just made up) that add hiss, noise, distortion , artifiacts to the stream. doesnt happen too often thoguht cuz you will know if it does that


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> it is known that the soundcards will do two things:
> add their own DSP and effects to teh PCM didgital stream.(like EAX and surround sound effects, some want it[gamers]. most don't)
> or just give you a untouched stream of data.


 


   
  You might want to read on what EAX actually is, since you're confusing general purpose reverb presets with game specific presets that are used solely within games.
   
  And all those DSPs and effects are purely optional, as you can attain bit-perfect playback when the hardware is properly configured.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> You might want to read on what EAX actually is, since you're confusing general purpose reverb presets with game specific presets that are used solely within games.
> 
> And all those DSPs and effects are purely optional, as you can attain bit-perfect playback when the hardware is properly configured.


 

 Oh sorry about the EAX. i dont' use it but i do know that some sound cards will add DSP effects to teh S/PDIF audio stream while most don't that's just the point i was trying to make. and yeah you should be able to disable DSP's even if it "adds" it to the signal. and yeah my last sentence was on if the hardware was going to be configured properly


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> they don't JUST SWAP the sign. like converting japenese yen to usd where you just take away two zero's its a very general system. goods in Europe are generally priced more, customs, shipping etc and it just so happened to be that they just made it E149 or something. it's not always like this. but ur right, it's a little funny system or general occurance.


 

 Of course they do! Fiio products are manufactured in and shipped from China, right? So why would the E17 cost € 149 and $ 149? And Apple does pretty much the same. But that´s not the topic of discussion here. 
   
  Thanks for your answer, cause since they don´t go down in price by much I will just get it for € 139.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Of course they do! Fiio products are manufactured in and shipped from China, right? So why would the E17 cost € 149 and $ 149? And Apple does pretty much the same. But that´s not the topic of discussion here.
> 
> Thanks for your answer, cause since they don´t go down in price by much I will just get it for € 139.


 


  customs, tariffs, differences in shipping to buildings in stuff. the difference between E109 to E149 is pretty big. 
   
  and im basing the numbers on U.S prices i can't say for europe as manufactures set the price.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> customs, tariffs, differences in shipping to buildings in stuff. the difference between E109 to E149 is pretty big.
> 
> and im basing the numbers on U.S prices i can't say for europe as manufactures set the price.


 


  Just one example, for the purpose of illustration: Apple Magic mouse is 69 Dollars as well as 69 Euros. That´s like a 20 to 30 % price difference! All of the Apple products are designed and all in the US and are manufactured in China. The only difference between a magic mouse that is sold through apple.com and apple.de is the shipping address they put on the box when it goes out of China. Cause shipping costs must be about the same, as are taxes, tariffs and stuff. Some companies just do this because they can.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Oh sorry about the EAX. i dont' use it but i do know that some sound cards will add DSP effects to teh S/PDIF audio stream while most don't that's just the point i was trying to make. and yeah you should be able to disable DSP's even if it "adds" it to the signal. and yeah my last sentence was on if the hardware was going to be configured properly


 


  Agreed. If the user wants as clean an audio reproduction as possible, every single DSP or similar should be disabled, and even then some hardware doesn't do bit-perfect playback due to low level audio processing. Still, it should be noted that some people do like to EQ their audio, which obviously makes playback non bit-perfect but more to the listener's preferences as he sees fit.


----------



## gEaK

Back in stock at advancedmp3players, £99 & free UK delivery!
   
  Ordered mine just now, as soon as I receive it I'll cancel the mp4nation order.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ??really? i bought mine for $140 as well. but i would guess more sold it more. but you know what i mean right sounddreamer.... a couple off there and here as an aprox..
> 
> anyway..ill try not to add useless noise comments like these and focus on just answering questions


 

 I don't mind your noise comments because they're better than no comments at all.  I wasn't trying to correct you, I just didn't think other potential purchasers should feel they would have to pay any more than they had to.  From what I've been reading, this unit is a bargain at the current price. I'll hear for myself by tomorrow.


----------



## Bill-P

Quote: 





geak said:


> Back in stock at advancedmp3players, £99 & free UK delivery!
> 
> Ordered mine just now, as soon as I receive it I'll cancel the mp4nation order.


 


  Thanks for the heads-up. I just placed an order there, and the total came out to £95.28 delivery to U.S. in 3-4 working days. That's not bad at all. I think I'll get it before the end of next week.
   
  ---------
   
  I will definitely be doing comparisons with my E11. If the E17 doesn't improve significantly, I'll throw it back up for sale for someone else who might be interested!


----------



## bowei006

@l00l 
  i guess that's one way of looking at it really. but still i see different prices for U.S and europe on most things
   
  @sounddreamer
  i know what you mean. text makes you seem angsty and everything online. it happens man


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @l00l
> i guess that's one way of looking at it really. but still i see different prices for U.S and europe on most things


 
   
  Yeah sure, that logic does not apply to all goods. Just some of them. Other price differences are for different reasons.
   
  But I think I will wait a few more days cause I dont wanna pay € 20 in shipping. That´s a joke! It would be 118 for E17 + 20 shipping. But all in all I have pretty much decided that I will go with the E17. Will be interesting to see how different the same source material sounds with stereo, compared to a digital source (coaxial or optical) through the E17.


----------



## hyogen

wow, lack of sleep really affects me i'm realizing.  i thought for sure I had posted this here...
   
   
*I must say I am no longer anxious about the E17 anymore*.  I have heard an INCREDIBLE improvement in sound... I'm highly doubting the E17 will be too much of an improvement on my new set-up.  Might even be worth it for me to just go with desktop amp like a little dot mk2 or 3.   My socks have already been blown off....now i wanna wet my pants   
   
  i traded phones for a Samsung Nexus S (which has a Wolfson dac in it...although not AS good as the best wolfson phone dac)..... Using this Nexus S phone with wolfson dac using PowerAmp player / Voodoo control / Beyerdynamic DT880 pro (250ohm)....no amp.  In fact, the Voodoo control has some amp capabilites.  I find that it sounds best with little equalization or flat EQ in Poweramp on my phone.   So much more transparent and clean I could immediately tell a HUGE difference from my other android phone (Huawei).   and then there was definitely a significant difference from the Windows Phone 7 HTC surround which I thought was pretty great.....    I dare say this sounds as good as my first experience I had with an amp at a hifi shop--the Project Head Box II (only tried Grado Sr60, sr225, and sony MDR-V6)
   
  Getting goosebumps as I listen to my setup right now. 
   
  all the insane amounts of research....and very little sleep I got over the past week or two........  I'm QUITE the happy camper--just gotta get my head back into my studies.


----------



## bowei006

Did you receive teh E17? Why are you no longer anxious? are you still looking forward to it?


----------



## hyogen

no, i didn't get it yet of course (dunno when mp4nation will ship)...  but now that i have such a great improvement than what i had before using the galaxy s (with wolfson + voodoo) and my maybe 100 hour burned in DT880 250s.......  I'm not expecting a huge improvement with the E17... i'm pretty sure I want something that'll improve a TON on what I already have now.....   if the E17 can KINDA drive the HD650.........well, I think I want something that can REALLY DRIVE the hd650 and dt880. 
   
  not gonna cancel my order yet though..   I'm thinking a used little dot MKIII will be my next acquisition


----------



## Grift

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I don't mind your noise comments because they're better than no comments at all.  I wasn't trying to correct you, I just didn't think other potential purchasers should feel they would have to pay any more than they had to.  From what I've been reading, this unit is a bargain at the current price. I'll hear for myself by tomorrow.


 


  Oh wow, bought one!


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> no, i didn't get it yet of course (dunno when mp4nation will ship)...  but now that i have such a great improvement than what i had before using the galaxy s (with wolfson + voodoo) and my maybe 100 hour burned in DT880 250s.......  I'm not expecting a huge improvement with the E17... i'm pretty sure I want something that'll improve a TON on what I already have now.....   if the E17 can KINDA drive the HD650.........well, I think I want something that can REALLY DRIVE the hd650 and dt880.
> 
> not gonna cancel my order yet though..   I'm thinking a used little dot MKIII will be my next acquisition


 

  
  Pairing E17 with little dot mkiii sounds not a good idea, because E17 is not a pure dac. You should really consider E9, imo.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Pairing E17 with little dot mkiii sounds not a good idea, because E17 is not a pure dac. You should really consider E9, imo.


 


  You can get the adapter forgot what the model number was called and you can get a line level signal out.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> You can get the adapter forgot what the model number was called and you can get a line level signal out.


 


  Really? if so, that's great! 
   
  It seems called L7, maybe I should buy one, too!


----------



## RoadKam

(Samsung Nexus S is a phone)
   
  @hyogen - What are you playing on your Nexus? i.e. mp3 or 'phone format' files right? If you like the sound of the DAC in there, but want more drive to your headphones, then an amp is what you're looking for. If you want it portable, that would be a consideration - although you wanna consider that you'll need batteries for the amp if you want to stay mobile. If you allow the E17 to ship and deliver, before selling it I would try to get digital out on the phone if it supports it and compare the DAC on the E17 to that of your phone.
   
  Back to source files - if they're mp3 with moderate bit rate (192 to 320) then adding hardware wouldn't make them sound much better, as I understand it. Anyone back me up on that?


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> You can get the adapter forgot what the model number was called and you can get a line level signal out.


 


  The adapter for the Little Dot MKIII? Or you're talking for the computer. 

 Cause I want that amp and that would be great!


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> The adapter for the Little Dot MKIII? Or you're talking for the computer.
> 
> Cause I want that amp and that would be great!


 


http://www.fiio.com.cn/product/index.aspx?ID=22&MenuID=020303
   
  Does it work on E17?


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> The adapter for the Little Dot MKIII? Or you're talking for the computer.
> 
> Cause I want that amp and that would be great!


 

 No I meant for the E17+ L7 for line out into mkiii


----------



## bowei006

E17 can be used with L7. it will bypass the E17's internal amplifier allowing you to use the E17 as a standalone DAC.
   
  depending on the user and ripping of the source files. some can hear the diff of 192/320 from lossless while some can't. rips that were downloaded even if they were 320kbps i can tell were either done wrong or up converted. rips i done myself into 320 are absolutley flawless. i recently did an ABX test
   
  foo_abx 1.3.4 report
  foobar2000 v1.1.11
  2012/02/17 14:29:49
   
  File A: K:\A.wav
  File B: K:\B.wav
   
  14:29:49 : Test started.
  14:31:31 : 01/01  50.0%
  14:32:00 : 01/02  75.0%
  14:32:14 : 02/03  50.0%
  14:32:37 : 03/04  31.3%
  14:32:48 : 04/05  18.8%
  14:33:13 : 05/06  10.9%
  14:33:44 : 05/07  22.7%
  14:34:02 : 06/08  14.5%
  14:36:21 : 07/09  9.0%
  14:37:05 : 08/10  5.5%
  14:37:35 : 09/11  3.3%
  14:37:46 : 10/12  1.9%
  14:38:53 : 11/13  1.1%
  14:39:33 : 11/14  2.9%
  14:39:47 : 12/15  1.8%
  14:40:03 : 13/16  1.1%
  14:40:45 : Test finished.
   
   ---------- 
  Total: 13/16 (1.1%)
   
  so yeah. i would say i can tell the diff from 320 to lossless


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i know.  i'm thinking of getting the mkiii instead of getting the E17  I'm not particularly TOO excited about getting the E17 anymore...  I'm sure it'll really improve my laptop/ipad 2 sound, but not so much with my phone.i do most of my listening on my phone for some reason.  Consider the E9 for just amp and the setup I have now (phone + dt880?)  over getting a mkIII? 
   
  So, E17 will give me a little improvement of the sound i have on my phone now...... but I want another HUGE improvement, like I just experienced


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> i know.  i'm thinking of getting the mkiii instead of getting the E17  I'm not particularly TOO excited about getting the E17 anymore...  I'm sure it'll really improve my laptop/ipad 2 sound, but not so much with my phone.i do most of my listening on my phone for some reason.  Consider the E9 for just amp and the setup I have now (phone + dt880?)  over getting a mkIII?
> 
> So, E17 will give me a little improvement of the sound i have on my phone now...... but I want another HUGE improvement, like I just experienced


 

 xxhaxx has corrected my mistake, you can add L7 and change E17 into pure dac. I didn't know this before, I thought E9 is the only option. E17 is really versatile....


----------



## RoadKam

@bowie006 - if he's using a phone to play files on, I doubt he's using lossless. For 192-320 bitrate, which I'm assuming he'll be using from his phone, would going digital out from the phone to a DAC/AMP like the E17 improve the sound much? (He likes the DAC on his phone, and plans to use an amp for the analog out from DAC.)


----------



## hyogen

yeah, i'm not using lossless.   Sounds freakin amazing to me, though.  Most of you have probably experienced a DAC that sounds as good as the wolfson


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> (Samsung Nexus S is a phone)
> 
> @hyogen - What are you playing on your Nexus? i.e. mp3 or 'phone format' files right? If you like the sound of the DAC in there, but want more drive to your headphones, then an amp is what you're looking for. If you want it portable, that would be a consideration - although you wanna consider that you'll need batteries for the amp if you want to stay mobile. If you allow the E17 to ship and deliver, before selling it I would try to get digital out on the phone if it supports it and compare the DAC on the E17 to that of your phone.
> 
> Back to source files - if they're mp3 with moderate bit rate (192 to 320) then adding hardware wouldn't make them sound much better, as I understand it. Anyone back me up on that?


 
  thanks.  Hmm...I see.  So, an added amp (even something pretty good like the MKIII for around $200) wno't really make it sound much better? 
   
  and yes, i'm using mp3 files.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> thanks.  Hmm...I see.  So, an added amp (even something pretty good like the MKIII for around $200) wno't really make it sound much better?
> 
> and yes, i'm using mp3 files.


 

 That's my theory. I'm trying to get someone more experienced to give an opinion... if your headphones are being driven adequately by the phone, then an amp won't add much besides volume as I understand it. In that case, making sure your headphones ARE being driven well by your phone would be where you'd want to focus.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> @bowie006 - if he's using a phone to play files on, I doubt he's using lossless. For 192-320 bitrate, which I'm assuming he'll be using from his phone, would going digital out from the phone to a DAC/AMP like the E17 improve the sound much? (He likes the DAC on his phone, and plans to use an amp for the analog out from DAC.)


 


  i have lossless files on my ipod and phone well anyway. first..most phone's..if not i don't know any current mass marketed phones other than some itsy details on nokia's going digital out. when used with a phone. only the amp of teh E17 will be engaged. the DAC will not and can not. even if ICS update comes out, the phone won't be able to supply enough power to use DAC just like the ipad...without an extra powered usb hub (thanks to agent xxl for this)
   
  "improve sound" everyone wants to know this. it is entirely dependant on a person. how well they can hear. if he is happy with his files righ tnow and not really an audiophile, other than differences from EQ and louder volume he might not be able to tell the difference .
   
  again. as of right now no way to bypass android devices amp or DAC, and even with ICS update..not enough power to use E17 as DAC with(portably)..if the update does come out ..he can do it probably..but he won't be moving as ...you need a powered usb hub. again.
   
  i need more specfici questions to go into detail it kinda seemed like there was mass misconception and stuff around the whole place 
   
  anyway. ask away roadKAM i know your new to this. just ask all your sound science and what not questions and i can go more into depth
   
  @duyu
  yeah...the more you know haha  that's why so many buy it. considering how many people have said that the differncce from E17's WM8740 and other almost thousand dollar DAC's WM8740's is very very small...the L7 and the entire versatility of teh E17..is amazing


----------



## RoadKam

(Dupe post, sorry)


----------



## bowei006

At this time i believe it would be better for hyogen to maybe instead of spending a couple hundred on amps and DAC's to just upgrade to a higher level easy to drive headphones. teh AHD 2000s are on the top of my lips. but hey it could be anything
   
  i don't know if you saw it roadkam but i answered ur question


----------



## Bill-P

I'm just reposting this, I guess, but again, advancedmp3players seems to have stock of the E17.
   
http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Gadgets.4/FiiO.406/E17/FiiO_E17_Portable_Headphone_Amplifier_with_USB_Digital_Audio_Convertor__DAC_.13679.html
   
  It's a bit pricier, but they can ship international, too.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ...
> i don't know if you saw it roadkam but i answered ur question


 

 I saw, and thank you.  (I'm on the road and my internet connection here is not so good... my 'submit' failed and I did it again, but it seems the first one went through after all.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I agree.  I'm not sure if they ARE being driven to the max.  I'm almost positive they aren't....I mean it's a 250ohm headphone.    comparable HD650 is just adequately driven by the E17....but again most likely not fully driven.  that's what I want....fulllllly driven 
   


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> At this time i believe it would be better for hyogen to maybe instead of spending a couple hundred on amps and DAC's to just upgrade to a higher level easy to drive headphones. teh AHD 2000s are on the top of my lips. but hey it could be anything
> 
> i don't know if you saw it roadkam but i answered ur question


 

 these DT880 250ohm aren't high level enough?  I think they are...    I don't think I've heard these fully driven yet.  I've only heard from my phone/wolfson/voodoo control and 5db amp/ 
   
  It's not about volume at all.  I'm getting plenty of volume.  like i said above, I just want to FULLY drive these.  What you're saying is to get a more expensive headphone that's like 32ohm, right?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I agree.  I'm not sure if they ARE being driven to the max.  I'm almost positive they aren't....I mean it's a 250ohm headphone.    comparable HD650 is just adequately driven by the E17....but again most likely not fully driven.  that's what I want....fulllllly driven
> 
> 
> these DT880 250ohm aren't high level enough?  I think they are...    I don't think I've heard these fully driven yet.  I've only heard from my phone/wolfson/voodoo control and 5db amp/
> ...


 

 What you mean is that you want to enjoy the detail and clarity as well as having enough volume. I wouldn't necessarily be looking at easier to drive headphones, but instead something that has a wide soundstage and plenty of clarity/detail. Beyer T1. Senn HD800, Audeze LCD-2 or -3, maybe even a Stax electrostatic setup. All of these of course are even harder to drive so they may/will require even more powerful amps.
   
  While you have just taken a leap forward by moving to a phone/media player with a better DAC, your next step is probably to start with better encoded files. If you can, start with some lossless files in FLAC or ALAC format. With your new phone though, you're limited to dual amping via the headphone output as I don't believe it has a line out and it won't support digital out unless you load a modded Android kernel. That's not to say that dual-amping out of your phone won't improve the audio, but almost guaranteed you won't see as big of an improvement as you have by changing player hardware (with the Wolfson DAC).
   
  That said, using Poweramp to play FLAC lossless files on your new phone may yet reveal another layer of detail and clarity. It really depends on the quality of the FLAC encoding though, so as with anything, it will require experimentation. I'd definitely give your E17 a try when you receive it - if it doesn't provide the boost you're looking for, you can probably sell it with little difficulty, being that it's so new. Good luck!


----------



## oneway23

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> I'm just reposting this, I guess, but again, advancedmp3players seems to have stock of the E17.
> 
> http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Gadgets.4/FiiO.406/E17/FiiO_E17_Portable_Headphone_Amplifier_with_USB_Digital_Audio_Convertor__DAC_.13679.html
> 
> It's a bit pricier, but they can ship international, too.


 


  I've got my itchy finger on the confirm order button...Has anyone ever used this place to ship internationally to the U.S.?


----------



## mdyoung216

Well my E17 arrived today  Thank you Micca Store.  I looked over the E17 "instructions" and I'm not sure how I should look it up for what I'm trying to do, or if it is even possible.  I also just bought an E10 that I hooked up to my wife's laptop. I bought it to use as a headphone amp and the DAC was just a plus.  I noticed it had a line out 3.5mm jack so I plugged her Bose Companion 3 speakers into it.  I figured I would do the same on my computer with the E17, but I just noticed it doesn't have a 3.5mm line out jack.  The instructions show speakers being hooked up using the L7 LOD.  So if I do that with the E17, will I still be able to plug in my headphones to use the E17 as a headphone amp?.  Since the E10 and E17 will both be connected to the computer by USB will I be getting the benefit of the amp and DAC function out of the E10 and E17 even if I use the L7?  Hope that make sense.


----------



## ClieOS

mdyoung216 said:


> Well my E17 arrived today  Thank you Micca Store.  I looked over the E17 "instructions" and I'm not sure how I should look it up for what I'm trying to do, or if it is even possible.  I also just bought an E10 that I hooked up to my wife's laptop. I bought it to use as a headphone amp and the DAC was just a plus.  I noticed it had a line out 3.5mm jack so I plugged her Bose Companion 3 speakers into it.  I figured I would do the same on my computer with the E17, but I just noticed it doesn't have a 3.5mm line out jack.  The instructions show speakers being hooked up using the L7 LOD.  So if I do that with the E17, will I still be able to plug in my headphones to use the E17 as a headphone amp?.  *Since the E10 and E17 will both be connected to the computer by USB will I be getting the benefit of the amp and DAC function out of the E10 and E17 even if I use the L7?*  Hope that make sense.




With L7, you can get both the line-out fro speaker and headphone-out.

I don't understand what you mean by the highlighted part - are you saying you will connect both E10 and E17 to the same PC? You can only set one sound device at a time in windows, either E10 or E17, but not at the same time.


----------



## mdyoung216

Quote: 





clieos said:


> With L7, you can get both the line-out fro speaker and headphone-out.
> I don't understand what you mean by the highlighted part - are you saying you will connect both E10 and E17 to the same PC? You can only set one sound device at a time in windows, either E10 or E17, but not at the same time.


 


  The E10 is connected to my wife's laptop and I'm going to connect the E17 to my desktop, both will be connected by USB. My main reason for buying both is the headphone amp, but since they both are DACs, would like get use of that as well.  So can I run a pair of speakers and headphones with the E10 and E17 and get the benefit of the DAC for the headphones and speakers?  Does the L7 have a line out and headphone jack?


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> ...
> It's not about volume at all.  I'm getting plenty of volume.  like i said above, I just want to FULLY drive these.  What you're saying is to get a more expensive headphone that's like 32ohm, right?


 

 Here's some quotes from an article I found online: http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/
   
  "E17 versus the E11
  We’re talking strictly amplifiers here, and I have to conclude that the E11 is the better amplifier. More ample power, smoother, more refined. The E11 has much more depth in the soundstage though the width is slightly narrower. But everytime you have to choose between depth and width, it’s always the depth because that’s what gives you three dimensionality. Well anyway remember that the E11 is an amplifier only unit, no DAC."
  
  So, is anyone using an E11 with DT880s? If so, does the E11 drive them with room to spare? (If so, then the amp on the E17 should drive the headphones fully.)
   
  hyogen: also, as I searched the web I saw different versions of the DT880 - 32ohm, 250ohm, and 600ohm.


----------



## xxhaxx

The L7 doesn't block the headphone jack. It only cover the auxiliary port.


----------



## ClieOS

mdyoung216 said:


> The E10 is connected to my wife's laptop and I'm going to connect the E17 to my desktop, both will be connected by USB. My main reason for buying both is the headphone amp, but since they both are DACs, would like get use of that as well.  So can I run a pair of speakers and headphones with the E10 and E17 and get the benefit of the DAC for the headphones and speakers?  Does the L7 have a line out and headphone jack?



L7 only gives you an USB-in (for PC input) and a line-out (for your speaker). The headphone-out on the E17 is still functional and it is independent from the line-out - in simpler term, you can use line-out (from L7) and headphone-out (on E17) at the same time. This is the same for E10 as its line-out and headphone-out are also independent of each other.


----------



## mdyoung216

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> The L7 doesn't block the headphone jack. It only cover the auxiliary port.


 


  I know that it connects similar to how an iPod would connect, but if I do connect the L-7 to my E17 can I still use the E17 as a headphone amp, or is it just a DAC with the L7 connected.  If I can do both fine.  If not I'll do a splitter off the headphone jack, since the headphone amp is more important to me than a DAC for the speakers.


----------



## weitn

So far I am happy with the E17 performance with my Bose Mie2i. It sound great when I set the treble to +4 for most songs. I have been using it a lot at the office with this setup. Laptop (usb) -> E17 -> Mie2i. 
   
  At home, I have been using the E17 with my HD650 for almost a month now. I knew I needed a better amplifier for my HD650. Thus, I have ordered a Lyr with 6BZ7 NOS  tube last week. Will be getting it tomorrow. Can't wait to listen to it. I will be using the E17 (for now) as the DAC. I have ordered the Fiio L7 from Amazon (arriving next Friday). My home setup will be Laptop usb -> E17 with L7 (DAC) -> Lyr -> HD650.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't realize with an android kernel you could support digital out.   isn't that what ppl have been dying to get?  line out via microusb?  I don't think it exists yet...   I do use Poweramp and thanks for the advice with FLAC and source files.  I'm not looking to upgrade headphones at all....these sound perfect to me as it is.  Which was why I was doubting the E17's ability to really improve my phones.  As the guy who posted right before this said, the E17 does not drive his HD650.  It may be ADEQUATE...and loud enough.....but obviously he's feeling the need for more.
   
  thanks for the reply
  
  Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I did read that.  and I know the E17 will drastically improve sound from my laptop, BUT it will not work as a DAC for my phone.  But since I'm satisfied with the wolfson dac on my phone now, like AgentXXL suggested I will look to better quality mp3s/FLAC. 
   
  I know there are diff versions of the DT880.  I have the 250ohm.  I hope I don't regret getting the 600s.....  To me the 250ohm version is perfect.....wonder if it could sound any better.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





weitn said:


> So far I am happy with the E17 performance with my Bose Mie2i. It sound great when I set the treble to +4 for most songs. I have been using it a lot at the office with this setup. Laptop (usb) -> E17 -> Mie2i.
> 
> At home, I have been using the E17 with my HD650 for almost a month now. I knew I needed a better amplifier for my HD650. Thus, I have ordered a Lyr with 6BZ7 NOS  tube last week. Will be getting it tomorrow. Can't wait to listen to it. I will be using the E17 (for now) as the DAC. I have ordered the Fiio L7 from Amazon (arriving next Friday). My home setup will be Laptop usb -> E17 with L7 (DAC) -> Lyr -> HD650.


 

 I plan on this exact set-up in the future. Except maybe with the LD MKIII, aye or nay?


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I didn't realize with an android kernel you could support digital out.   isn't that what ppl have been dying to get?  line out via microusb?  I don't think it exists yet...   I do use Poweramp and thanks for the advice with FLAC and source files.  I'm not looking to upgrade headphones at all....these sound perfect to me as it is.  Which was why I was doubting the E17's ability to really improve my phones.  As the guy who posted right before this said, the E17 does not drive his HD650.  It may be ADEQUATE...and loud enough.....but obviously he's feeling the need for more.
> 
> thanks for the reply


 

 The only Android kernel that supports digital out, that I'm aware of is CyanogenMod7. I've also seen mention of a Nook kernel based on ICS 4.0.3 that supports digital out via USB, but so far that's it for the Android market. I too have never seen line out via microusb - nor have I seen an Android phone that has a line out similar to iDevices, i.e. a separate jack from the headphone jack or requiring a special cable (LOD) to make use of line out on a dock connector. In fact, I don't recall seeing a single Android device which has a dock connector - just microusb. So it's very likely that line out from an Android device is pretty much non-existent except in rare cases where they have a separate jack or perhaps firmware that enables them to switch the headphone jack from variable to fixed line out. All of this is just a guess on my part, having never experienced it in person.
   
  One other thing mentioned earlier - someone was stating that digital out of iDevices isn't possible other than the iPad 2 with CCK (and powered USB hub in the case of the E17). That's not entirely true - there are devices such as the Fostex HP-P1, the Cypher Labs Algorithm Solo and the HRT iStreamer that bypass the DAC in iDevices to use their own. There is also the Pure AV digital dock, but that basically makes the iDevice + USB/SPDIF DAC a transportable solution, not a portable one. There are options out there to do more with our devices, but they almost always cost a fortune or severely limit the portability. If portability isn't an issue for you, then the advantage of a true desktop amp is probably more appropriate than the E17. But you never know until you try...


----------



## mdyoung216

OK I ordered the L7 from the Micca Store.  Figured I would throw them some business for getting the E17 to me.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> I plan on this exact set-up in the future. Except maybe with the LD MKIII, aye or nay?


 


  Lyr or LD MKIII - either one will drive the HD650 acceptably. Myself, I'm just not a fan of tube amps. I haven't listened to a lot of them, but it seems that I'm only happy when I hear the > $1000 systems. For that kind of cash, I'll stick with a nice neutral solid state amp. The warmer sound of tube amps just doesn't appeal to me, but again, that's my personal opinion based on my ears and brain. In no way should it influence what you decide to try to improve your listening station - to each their own!


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  hehe, yes I will give the e17 a shot.  So, digital out for android......that WOULD be through microUSB, right?


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 does the lyr or ldmkiii drive your dt770 250s any better than they do the hd650?


----------



## DanXbix

Received my Fiio E17 today and wow what a great product. Paired with my alienware m18x, Ipad2, iPhone4 and pro700mk2 phones the sound is amazing and in my opinion leaps ahead of my old nuforce udac2. My bass heavy headphones now have more amazing tactile bass! And the mids & treble and sound stage is great. Defiantly recommend this DAC/Amp 


Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> hehe, yes I will give the e17 a shot.  So, digital out for android......that WOULD be through microUSB, right?


 

 If you want Google to put in digital out over USB host please vote for it here - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> hehe, yes I will give the e17 a shot.  So, digital out for android......that WOULD be through microUSB, right?


 

 Yes, digital out for Android with CM7 or modified ICS 4.0.3 kernel would be through microUSB.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Still learning about all these audio stuff. Would I get better sound quality as it being as a DAC or an amp? It will be connected to my computer


----------



## xxhaxx

IMO if you are using your computer as a source the DAC should give you a better sound quality. The difference for me is huge, but YMMV


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 wow...  and you can still do the Voodoo sound for wolfson dac in certain phones that have them?  (for when you don't use an external dac)
   
  EDIT:  found the answer to my question.  You CANNOT use it.  http://www.galaxyforums.net/forum/samsung-fascinate-roms/4287-voodoo-control-2-1-1-compatiable-cm7.html
   
  I will probably just not get the CM7.  Since it IS my phone...and it's much easier to not pair it with a DAC everytime I want to listen to music. 
   
   
   
  One more thing to add......Just tried the TripleFi 10 with my Nexus S phone.............WOWWWW.  Where did the soundstage come from????   Before trying it on this new phone, I had already thought (opinion shared with at least one other headfiier) that the DT880 sounds just like the open full size headphone version of the TripleFi 10...........   Now it sounds even more the same.  Almost indistinguishable to me (it is 4AM....).  I'm hearing a very significant improvement in soundstage for these IEMs........
   
  I feel like I'm set for life even before this E17 arrives....hahah


----------



## Etrips

Well, placed an order last night from advancedmp3players and just got an email this morning saying it is out of stock.


----------



## ebmp19

Hey, guys. Just got my e17 today from mp4nation. The free gift was defective though  see the thread in the IEM section if you want to know more. It's pretty good so far.


----------



## bowei006

As for the E11 having more power i remember that Mike @ headfonia and CLEIOS had the same thought on what that meant..but what does more power mean to both of them. i got CLIEOS to elaborate
http://www.head-fi.org/t/596482/the-sub-100-portable-amps-shootout-7-1-amps-compared/30#post_8164279
   
   
   
  Quote CLEIOS: 





> As I have somewhat mentioned in my E17 review - E11 has more control and power when in low gain setting, E17 is doing better in higher gain setting.


 
  ..i think it means that they like the E11 due to it's smoother power in the 6dB range(E11 has no 0dB) but overal the E17 has more power
  E17 is 215mW @ 32 ohms
  E11 is 200mW @ 32 ohms
   
  the above numbers are when both are set on 12dB gain mode


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





etrips said:


> Well, placed an order last night from advancedmp3players and just got an email this morning saying it is out of stock.


 

 Same.
   
  I made a pre-order enquiry a couple of weeks ago. They then emailed me yesterday telling me the item was now in stock. The product page told me the item was in stock. I purchased the item and was still told it was in stock. This morning I receive an email telling me it is now out of stock.
   
  Absolutely ******* unreal. I thought I'd finally managed to get my hands on this item and now this happens.
   
  I have now paid for 2 units, one from mp4nation and one from advancedmp3players, and received nothing.
   
  Honestly never had so much hassle trying to purchase a single item. I've tried to remain patient but after this I'm so pissed off right now.


----------



## Etrips

geak said:


> Same.
> 
> I made a pre-order enquiry a couple of weeks ago. They then emailed me yesterday telling me the item was now in stock. The product page told me the item was in stock. I purchased the item and was still told it was in stock. This morning I receive an email telling me it is now out of stock.
> 
> ...




Just got an email saying it should be back in stock on the 29th... Hmmm!


----------



## ClieOS

bowei006 said:


> ...
> ..i think it means that they like the E11 due to it's smoother power in the 6dB range(E11 has no 0dB) but overal the E17 has more power
> E17 is 215mW @ 32 ohms
> E11 is 200mW @ 32 ohms
> ...




Lets put to it straight - in low gain, I mean E11 and E17 are both in +6dB (0dB will be NO gain at all). In high gain, they are both + 12dB.

Measurement I did in the past shows that E11 is capable of delivering more power to a fixed 47ohm load than E17 in low gain. But in high gain, E17 has more power.


----------



## bowei006

@clieos thats what i said in the post? I basicaly re iterated ur point. Some were getting the idea that the e11 had more power in general and so i quoted ur statement


----------



## ClieOS

I just want to make sure other who read the post understand what exactly is the meaning of 'smoother' power, that's all.


----------



## beaver316

Wait a second, so Android does have digital out? By using CyanogenMod7? In other words, if i flashed CM7 on my HTC Desire HD, plugged the E17 to my Desire HD, then the DAC and amp from the E17 will be utilized?


----------



## ClieOS

beaver316 said:


> Wait a second, so Android does have digital out? By using CyanogenMod7? In other words, if i flashed CM7 on my HTC Desire HD, plugged the E17 to my Desire HD, then the DAC and amp from the E17 will be utilized?




The cellphone needs to have the hardware for digital-out in the first place. You can buy a rocket engine that can push you to the moon, but putting it in truck doesn't make it a space shuttle.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I just want to make sure other who read the post understand what exactly is the meaning of 'smoother' power, that's all.


 

 Ah hah. So if a E11 can run 250ohm headphones (say, hyogen's DT880s) then the E17 can fully drive them as well? He'll be using the 'analog in' out of his Nexus phone, as I understand it.
  
  @hyogen - if your setup is driving 250ohm DT880s anywhere near as well as it does earbuds (TripleFi 10) then I'm thinking the E17 will drive the headphones even better.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





clieos said:


> The cellphone needs to have the hardware for digital-out in the first place. You can buy a rocket engine that can push you to the moon, but putting it in truck doesn't make it a space shuttle.


 

 I actually laughed out loud at your anology. I drive a truck, and the visual I got is a flatbed trailer hauling a rocket engine when it accidentally went off and put he truck into orbit.  (White knuckle driving for sure! Heavy Metal anyone?)


----------



## bowei006

Android devices micro usb. I dont think are too audiophile. And like i said before DAC devices have a USB draw power.... If the ipad wont allow it, i doubt ur android devices will at risk fo fryingg or destroying the batter. If u can flash and mod it why not remove limitations? Limitations r there for a reason. Yes i agree that u should get a bit more juice out an just go past limitations by a bit but when the e17s power draw is twice apple ipads cck limitations..... Twice is a big.. ThingT


----------



## beaver316

Hmm i see. So i guess for portable music listening it's just better to get a good mp3 player with a good dac/amp built in, and leave the portable dac/amps like the E17 for desktops/laptops?


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Hmm i see. So i guess for portable music listening it's just better to get a good mp3 player with a good dac/amp built in, and leave the portable dac/amps like the E17 for desktops/laptops?


 

 mp3 player with digital out would be ideal for the E17 with decent earbuds or good quality small headphones I would think, (very portable with excellent sound) if there ARE mp3 players with digital out?


----------



## bowei006

The e17 can be used with most or any portable player. The dac wont be engaged when it happens but the amp will be. Amps are mainly used to provide tonality an power(volume)


----------



## Bill-P

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> I'm just reposting this, I guess, but again, advancedmp3players seems to have stock of the E17.
> 
> http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/Gadgets.4/FiiO.406/E17/FiiO_E17_Portable_Headphone_Amplifier_with_USB_Digital_Audio_Convertor__DAC_.13679.html
> 
> It's a bit pricier, but they can ship international, too.


 

 Never mind. Just an update to this. Advancedmp3players just emailed me saying that the E17 was out of stock by the time I ordered it. I canceled my order. Guess I'll wait until stock situation is completely cleared up before making this decision again.


----------



## SniperCzar

I'm pretty sure if Android ebook readers can do digital out over USB then almost any Android device should be able to. It's a software issue, not a hardware one. The OS just needs to send out the audio in a way the USB device can understand, rather than trying to plug in like a flash drive to a PC. My $99 made in China Android tablet could even read/write data over USB, and it's the cheapest device I've ever seen running Android.


----------



## bowei006

Yes it is a software thing. But as we are on head fi for audiophiles plz note that hardware also plays an issue now as it can changes the sound.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

come on mp4 nation, I want mine already 
  apparently I was left out on the feb batch, not waiting to the march one. seems like FiiO has too much demand.


----------



## ClieOS

sniperczar said:


> I'm pretty sure if Android ebook readers can do digital out over USB then almost any Android device should be able to. It's a software issue, not a hardware one. The OS just needs to send out the audio in a way the USB device can understand, rather than trying to plug in like a flash drive to a PC. My $99 made in China Android tablet could even read/write data over USB, and it's the cheapest device I've ever seen running Android.




The function is called 'USB on-the-go' (or OTG for short). The Android device must have that kind of USB chip (an USB on-the-go I/O chip that capable of hosting) built in to have that function. Most Android cellphone don't have that. They only have a USB receiver chip that can't host a slave device. The reason why most cellphone (including iPhone) don't have OTG is because OTG sucks out a lot of power, so it makes more sense to have it on tablet than on cellphone. It is not as easy as flipping a few switch in the OS.


----------



## mdyoung216

Don't be dumb like me.
   
  I received my E17 yesterday, so I decided to hook it up before I went to bed last night.  I hooked up the USB cable and it turned Red for a few seconds and went out.  I figured it needed to be charged, so I went to bed.   When I got up this morning I pressed the power button and nothing.  So I tried another USB cable and USB input.  Same thing, Red light on for a few seconds.  So I try the reset, still nothing.   Do you know the E17 has a hold button.  Switched that off and guess what, it powered up when I pressed the power button.  LOL


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





mdyoung216 said:


> Don't be dumb like me.
> 
> I received my E17 yesterday, so I decided to hook it up before I went to bed last night.  I hooked up the USB cable and it turned Red for a few seconds and went out.  I figured it needed to be charged, so I went to bed.   When I got up this morning I pressed the power button and nothing.  So I tried another USB cable and USB input.  Same thing, Red light on for a few seconds.  So I try the reset, still nothing.   Do you know the E17 has a hold button.  Switched that off and guess what, it powered up when I pressed the power button.  LOL


 

 I'm taking notes.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





mdyoung216 said:


> Don't be dumb like me.
> 
> I received my E17 yesterday, so I decided to hook it up before I went to bed last night.  I hooked up the USB cable and it turned Red for a few seconds and went out.  I figured it needed to be charged, so I went to bed.   When I got up this morning I pressed the power button and nothing.  So I tried another USB cable and USB input.  Same thing, Red light on for a few seconds.  So I try the reset, still nothing.   Do you know the E17 has a hold button.  Switched that off and guess what, it powered up when I pressed the power button.  LOL


 


  Just so I don't make the same mistake...When its charging the light turns off?


----------



## bowei006

No it doesnt. The device is in lock or hold mode when u can see the orange strip. Make sure the orange strip is not visible andthen use


----------



## Shoulon

Im in need of a DAC (E17) CyanogenMod9 enables audio out from the usb on my Samsung Galaxy S II (Epic Touch 4G). Tested it on my cars stereo.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





danxbix said:


> Paired with my alienware m18x, Ipad2, iPhone4 and pro700mk2 phones the sound is amazing and in my opinion leaps ahead of my old *nuforce udac2*. My bass heavy headphones now have more amazing tactile bass! And the mids & treble and sound stage is great. Defiantly recommend this DAC/Amp


 

 As a company, I've heard so many great things regarding NuForce, and find it hard to believe they would make an inferior product. Maybe, because they need a new updated amp/dac to release to compare with what's out now? I've read lots of reviews comparing their portable/desktop products to other brands and always come away with scratching my head. I don't know. I either need to stop reading about NuForce products, or go purchase myself some dandruff shampoo.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





clieos said:


> The function is called 'USB on-the-go' (or OTG for short). The Android device must have that kind of USB chip (an USB on-the-go I/O chip that capable of hosting) built in to have that function. Most Android cellphone don't have that. They only have a USB receiver chip that can't host a slave device. The reason why most cellphone (including iPhone) don't have OTG is because OTG sucks out a lot of power, so it makes more sense to have it on tablet than on cellphone. It is not as easy as flipping a few switch in the OS.


 

 I really don't think USB is an asynchronous protocol as any kind of data transfer I'm familiar with requires acknowledgment packets, and even if it was I can't even remember the last time I saw a cell phone that wouldn't function as a mass storage device when plugged into a computer. AFAIK USB OTG has been around since the early 00's, the issue in using it is just that most device manufacturers provide so little current over USB that you'd have a hard time running anything more than a USB keyboard. Easily solved with something like what was mentioned earlier for the iPad and E17, just use a powered hub with the CCK, either battery or solar if you can find a solar hub powerful enough. Just make sure you have the right cable to actually work with OTG. Once those two demands are met it just turns into a software issue.
   
  Edit - Upon further research it does look like USB host isn't universally supported by everything ever, but it seems like it has fairly wide support among the major brands of Android phones. The power draw and software issues still seem to be the bigger ones in most setups.


----------



## dmcs414

Quote: 





shoulon said:


> Im in need of a DAC (E17) CyanogenMod9 enables audio out from the usb on my Samsung Galaxy S II (Epic Touch 4G). Tested it on my cars stereo.


 

 Sweet! I'm going to look into trying out the CyanogenMod 9 beta on my Motorola Photon 4G, which should let me do the same thing when my E17 gets in..which will be sometime today I just learned! Yay!


----------



## xxhaxx

Got back from the orthodontist found out that the E17 have arrived but my 5D classic has to be picked up from USPS tomorrow T-T.


----------



## l00l

Maybe for me it might be a good option to get the Astro Mixamp pro instead of the Fiio E17. Are those 2 comparable? I am still confused what´s a DAC and what´s an amp and all that...
  I will be using the Amp/DAC (or whatever) like 85 % of the time with my TV (Blu Ray, Xbox, digital cable box - all digital outs) that has no digital outs and 15 % with either my iPod/iPhone or my MacBook for music or DVDs.
  And just from looking at it and going through it´s features I find the Astro Mixamp pretty interesting... but hard to tell for me right now what best would suits me.


----------



## A Kennedy4

Got my E17 today! Can't wait to try it out with my Senn HD 600 and Shure SE 535!
   
  Also, MiccaStore gets a huge shoutout for getting it here so fast and the easy purchasing process!


----------



## AppleDappleman

USPS said it was out for delivery since 9AM but its already 1PM. 
   
  The wait is always the bad part.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> USPS said it was out for delivery since 9AM but its already 1PM.
> 
> The wait is always the bad part.


 


  It should arrive with your daily mail :]


----------



## A Kennedy4

Ok so this question is gonna be asked eventually today, and since Im struggling to find the information from an earlier post:
   
  Why is the e17 in 48K 16 bit mode? Do I have to wait for it to fully charge to get 96K 24bit?


----------



## xxhaxx

that is your source output reading.


----------



## A Kennedy4

How do I get it to change to 96/24?
   
  nvm, found it in playback device settings


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> It should arrive with your daily mail :]


 

 OMG I can't believe I was waiting for a package at my door. I feel like such an idiot. 

 I have it now! Its so much smaller than I expected haha
   
   
  Just do double check, the instructions are a tiny bit confusing. To use the E17 as a DAC I use the Optical cable?


----------



## xxhaxx

Do you mean DAC only? so E17 to an amp you would need a Fiio L7 would would give you a line level out. But if you are using the DAC/Amp all you need to do is plug in the usb/optical/coaxial and choose the correct input.

 I


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> ...
> Just do double check, the instructions are a tiny bit confusing. To use the E17 as a DAC I use the Optical cable?


 

 DAC means Digital/Analog Conversion, so if you input a digital signal (optical, USB, coax) the DAC will convert it into analogue and pass it out the headphone jack. So, you're correct.


----------



## RoadKam

And it's here! Been playing with it... watching Demolition Man on Blu-ray right now, Twister is next. 
   
  My K702's aren't here yet, so I'm using my Bose On-Ear headphones. I'm using optical out from my laptop (I only have 1 USB2 port, and though digital out works through a small unpowered hub, the optical is just as easy. I have a usb-to-AC adapter to power the E17.)
   
  Aux in sounds good through my headphones. Direct from the laptop sounds just a little 'flatter' but still good. Either source easily drives the On-Ears. Digital in sounds a bit more 'crisp' (that includes both optical and USB) and the bass has a bit more thump although sustained bass seems to sound about the same. I still get a bit of blairing in the vocal range, which I think is from the headphones. I'll be able to see about that when the K702's come in.
   
  I've tried aux in on the E17 from a Sirius/XM reciever, and it DEFINITELY improves the sound. My Ipod 8G gets a big boost in sound quality as well.
   
  Update: went up to gain +6. Demolition man was a bit better than without the E17 - I noticed things in the background that I don't remember hearing before. (I watch that one a LOT.) Twister was full of background sounds. Base was rich, voices sounded natural (although still some blare when they shout.) Faint music in the background was still clear and 'bright.'


----------



## lshalamb

I just checked my tracking number, it says my item was delivered today at 3:22 p.m. my roommate was home whole day he's in his 60s, he has heard no knocking on the door. im living 9 months in this place not a single item was misdelivered. question: What?


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> I just checked my tracking number, it says my item was delivered today at 3:22 p.m. my roommate was home whole day he's in his 60s, he has heard no knocking on the door. im living 9 months in this place not a single item was misdelivered. question: What?


 


  Just to make sure you aren't making the same mistake as me, did you check your mail box? 

 I thought it was going to be delivered to my door but I was wrong completely


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Just to make sure you aren't making the same mistake as me, did you check your mail box?
> 
> I thought it was going to be delivered to my door but I was wrong completely


 

 Postal service, not UPS guys.


----------



## lshalamb

i didn't just check it, I was dancing around the damn thing for an hour or so. I asked all the neighbors around noone even seen the damn delivery guy. my roommate was waiting for package too, he would've heard knocking (they always knock when deliver stuff) i receive mail like weekly, why the F this specific one is absent!?
   
  sorry guys i'm just really frustrated about this  i was waiting for this thing for it since the release info came out... i dont know what to do at this point, but personally i want to thank miccastore for the "great" usps shipping options.


----------



## SniperCzar

Got my E17 today... just played my first few songs on it actually. iPod to DT770 Pro 80ohm, haven't used the optical in yet. I never really felt like there was any "clouding" over my highs before, but man did I notice the difference as soon as I plugged it in. On the low end I clearly notice the difference in things like taiko drums and on the high end I can clearly pick out claps keeping the beat. It's actually scaring me somewhat that this isn't even using the E17's DAC. If you're looking for some test tracks, I think exotic instruments are the name of the game with this little bundle of joy, though maybe that's because I've never heard a real-life taiko drum before 

 Overall, VERY pleased with this thing.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, this head-fi thing is like a full time job...   Just wanted to add I am using 5db amplification via voodoo control on my wolfson dac phone.  It sounds AMAZING like I said.  Since I don't think I'll be downloading FLAC anytime soon and don't have the time right now to do that or replace my library with higher quality files.....  I seriously am questioning whether I should get the E17 anymore.  Another important thing is I really don't listen to music on my computer at all..... Even if I have my computer or Ipad, I usually just listen through my phone/mp3 player.  So, since I have this blow-my-socks off improvement with not only what I find is THE most ideal set of headphones and IEMs (dt880 250ohm and Triplefi 10) which I thought were 150-200% improvements in my opinion........and now DOUBLE the improvement with switching to a good DAC.......      
   
  I think I'll cancel my order, wait around for the next best thing that'll blow the E17 out of the water......     and get a pair of headphones for my dad.  It's his birthday today   
   
  Sorry if any of you were anticipating my review with the DT880 (250).  I have probably spent well over 100 hours researching and obsessing on these boards just in the last 2 weeks.  I'll for sure come back with more time and money than ever in the future and hope to see you guys and the rest of this amazing community in the future.  I've got WAY more important things on my plate...........     For now, Sionara!!!!
   
  Please check out the links in my signature for 2 of my favorite genres of music which I can't live without and perhaps you'll find amazing as well.  More about me:  www.youtube.com/hyogen82     There...I've left my mark.    LAST POST UNTIL I ACHIEVE A HUGE GOAL I'M WORKING TOWARDS.


----------



## RoadKam

Happy trails, hyogen.  Bottom line is, if you're happy with what you've got, then that's a good thing.


----------



## happy2000hk

Just FYI - To switch to 96/24 on Mac OSX, go to Audio MIDI Setup.  Took me awhile to figure it out.
   
  Just got my E17 today, and I'm so happy with it!!!  This is my first DAC/amp, and to have it portable too is oh so important for me.  The sound sounds much sweeter, soundstage has improved significantly with it.  I kept unplugging my headphones from the E17 to plug it directly into the MBP or iphone 4 for some A/B testing, and the sound on those devices is just bloated and noisy (like all the instruments were crammed together in a closet and someone decided to play it).  Especially the IP4.  That's the only way I can describe it.  Tested it with my Klipsch S4 and HM3, and they both benefit immensely from it.  The device was also smaller than I expected, which is a huge plus.
   
  Thanks to Micca Store too for such speedy delivery and great packaging.  I love the t-shirt!  I am going to wear it tomorrow to show it off.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





happy2000hk said:


> ...
> Thanks to Micca Store too for such speedy delivery and great packaging.  I love the t-shirt!  I am going to wear it tomorrow to show it off.


 

 I appreciated the optical cable very much. And as far as FiiO goes, I never recieved a product and thought 'now THAT'S how you make a box' before.


----------



## bowei006

You guys remind me of us first batcher.  if you look about 60 pages back.. everything you guys are learning, posting about and what not and cool t shirts and cables was alldone  nostalgia. it's great just thought it'd add that
   
  RoadKam- im guessing you don't own an Apple iPhone? They spend millions and have their own wing to build boxes and organize it in such a way that yells..this is it. when you opne it


----------



## volly

Hello all,
   
  First time poster,
   
  Just want to comment on the Fiio E17 that I've just recieved here in Adelaide Australia.
   
  Purchased it on Ebay through SoundSightFocus (A company in Narwee NSW). 
   
  Purchased on the 20th of Feb and came in on 24th of Feb, very quick in my opinion. 
   
_*Brief Background*_: I had just upgraded my headphones from the Razor Carcharias to Audio-Technica ATH-AD700 and decided to upgrade my sound card in the PC.
   
  I had a Creative XFI Xtreme Music card which I got from the UK a few years ago from Ebay and I admit the sound was great back then!
   
_*Present Day:*_* *Anyway, I got on to a lot of forums and found HeadFi (Yes, say goodbye to your wallet!). Never fully understood the world of Dac's and Amp's I started my research!
   
  I searched the forum's and felt there was a few people in the same position as me who were feeling unsure about an alternative to PC sound card's, so I decide to the plunge!
   
  Yes I could have grabbed an Asus ST/STX or Creative Tit HD but I wanted to go a different direction, so I went with the Fiio E17.
   
_*Conclusion: *_* *Done the whole unboxing and setup that everyone has probably seen, plugged her in to the computer and ran it through her paces!
   
  I listen to various music from Classical, Rock, Pop, electronic, using mainly FLAC files.
   
  Sound quality compared to the Xtreme Music was overall a big improvement! 
   
  The sound was full and warm! I immediately felt like I was listening to (what I describe as) a high end Hifi system!
   
  It's very reassuring as I come from a Creative product to something totally different as in the Fiio and be in awe about what I'm hearing.
   
  The Fiio sounds like a professional athlete compared to say an amateur running a marathon, well paced full of energy and doing what it loves doing, where as the Creative was more like a weekend warrior!
   
  One of the best things was setup, those who have a Creative product are aware of the software you're presented with when you install your card!
   
  Fiio was "Plug and Play", plug her in to a USB port - Windows detects new device, installing drivers - Drivers installed - and that's it!
   
  I actually can't wait to uninstall all the creative drivers/programs/misc software off my computer and remove the Xtreme Music! 
   
  Wow I feel the decision I made was a good step for me and feel what others have said about the E17 reflect correctly based on what I've experienced! (Thanks Headfi!)
   
  The Fiio is here to stay,
   
  I wanted to keep this short, but if you got any questions I'll be happy to answer.


----------



## AppleDappleman

So after 5 hours of listening to the Fiio E17, 

 I feel....underwhelmed. Maybe just being a new at all this audiophile stuff, It just can't justify the price tag for me at the moment. Using a Dt770 80ohm. Connected through the optical cable. 
  
  The sound is clearer, not super noticeably but its there by a very small amount to me. Maybe I just expected too much at the moment. Going to hold onto it and see what else it can do.


----------



## DanXbix

Any Aussie guys i also ordered through SoundSightFocus on ebay and they are a fantastic ebayer. i Think they have 5 left so be quick Aussies


----------



## ebmp19

I have been wondering what does the gain setting do? Is it better to have it low and the volume higher? I


----------



## uku383

Basically it sets the strength of the output noise signal. Low gain has a less powerful (quieter) signal, while high gain is louder.
   
  Low gain is intended for IEMs, where less volume output is required. When using external cans people generally want the signal a bit louder, so the high gain setting allows that.
   
  While you could use the high gain setting in IEMs, it would be inadvisable to do so. You'd risk damaging your ears and the quality of the sound would suffer as IEMs aren't designed to be as loud.
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## Craig

Received my E17 today and it sounds great, thanks Micca!
   
  Has anyone else noticed that the DAC display seems to be inaccurate? When my Mac is set to output 44.1/24 via USB (my normal setting) the unit displays 48/16bit. The only way to get it to display 24bit is to set the rate to 96k. Further screwing around shows that outputting 96/16 still gets you a display of 96/24.
   
  My guess is that the firmware just assumes if you are using 44.1 or 48 that you are in 16 bit, and 96 always says 24, regardless of the signal actually it actually receives... or it's broken or I don't know what I'm doing.
   
  Also a little chintzy that it always displays 48K whether you feed it 44.1 or 48, but that "feature" is documented in the manual so I'll give them a pass.
   
  Another interesting observation is that the Balance control does not work like any other I've used--full left leaves quite a bit of signal in the right channel and vice versa.
   
  I think I'm going to get lots of use out of this little guy!!


----------



## ebmp19

Quote: 





uku383 said:


> Basically it sets the strength of the output noise signal. Low gain has a less powerful (quieter) signal, while high gain is louder.
> 
> Low gain is intended for IEMs, where less volume output is required. When using external cans people generally want the signal a bit louder, so the high gain setting allows that.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, but I have beyerdynamic dt770 250 OHM and I can listen to it with 0db gain and about 30 - 40 volume or 6db with lower volume. They are definatly not IEMs. I'm not sure how loud you guys listen to your music!  I think it might be better to listen on 0db gain with higher volume but It could make no difference.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





danxbix said:


> Any Aussie guys i also ordered through SoundSightFocus on ebay and they are a fantastic ebayer. i Think they have 5 left so be quick Aussies


 


  I think they are the same company as i-enjoy but I'm not sure.


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> So after 5 hours of listening to the Fiio E17,
> 
> I feel....underwhelmed. Maybe just being a new at all this audiophile stuff, It just can't justify the price tag for me at the moment. Using a Dt770 80ohm. Connected through the optical cable.
> 
> The sound is clearer, not super noticeably but its there by a very small amount to me. Maybe I just expected too much at the moment. Going to hold onto it and see what else it can do.


 


  Sent you a PM


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> So after 5 hours of listening to the Fiio E17,
> 
> I feel....underwhelmed. Maybe just being a new at all this audiophile stuff, It just can't justify the price tag for me at the moment. Using a Dt770 80ohm. Connected through the optical cable.
> 
> The sound is clearer, not super noticeably but its there by a very small amount to me. Maybe I just expected too much at the moment. Going to hold onto it and see what else it can do.


 
   
  I have the exact same setup as you. I started out with some really busy songs at a high bitrate, with a lot of more exotic instruments and noticed it *right* away. Afterwards the change wasn't so pronounced but it was certainly still there.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





ebmp19 said:


> Yes, but I have beyerdynamic dt770 250 OHM and I can listen to it with 0db gain and about 30 - 40 volume or 6db with lower volume. They are definatly not IEMs. I'm not sure how loud you guys listen to your music!  I think it might be better to listen on 0db gain with higher volume but It could make no difference.


 
   
  I have the 80ohms and I listen from my iPod with an LOD at about 30-40 at 6db very comfortably.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I have the exact same setup as you. I started out with some really busy songs at a high bitrate, with a lot of more exotic instruments and noticed it *right* away. Afterwards the change wasn't so pronounced but it was certainly still there.


 


  Any song recommendations? I've been listening to Michael Buble, Adele, Modern Jazz Quartet, The Strokes...Pretty much just everything that I can (Except metal) 

 I know I won't get rid of it, but help me get rid of buyer's remorse haha


----------



## bowei006

@craig

Read fiio documentation for e17. It stated 44.1 and 48KHz will be displayed as 48KHz and 96 and .. Whatevrr less khz than 96 i forgot will display as 96KHz. Basically it rounds the number


----------



## Rango

How good is for beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250 Ohms


----------



## Stoney

To get over being "underwelmed," try listening to it for awhile (there might be break-in time) to get used to what it does well.  At some moment, swich back to your previous best setup.  
   
  I found this helped me put my E7 in perspective, compared to direct out of the iPhone.  
   
  My wife heard the difference immediately.  She went back to the E7 output and listened to song after song for 20 minutes with my Phonak 232s, totally ignoring me.  She always hears better than I do, or I should say she detects difference faster.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Any song recommendations? I've been listening to Michael Buble, Adele, Modern Jazz Quartet, The Strokes...Pretty much just everything that I can (Except metal)
> 
> I know I won't get rid of it, but help me get rid of buyer's remorse haha


 

 I really first noticed it on "Lost" by Coldplay with the claps and percussion going on. Not exactly my favorite song to turn up on random but those claps especially have much better staging on the E17, and I could tell immediately. Also the thumps on the low end sound much tighter and the highs seem less clouded.

 Another great track is "Get On Your Boots" by U2. Listen to the low end closely and the really dirty guitar work. You should be able to pick out a pretty big difference in the detail on the guitars if you've got a high bitrate recording.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Any song recommendations? I've been listening to Michael Buble, Adele, Modern Jazz Quartet, The Strokes...Pretty much just everything that I can (Except metal)
> 
> I know I won't get rid of it, but help me get rid of buyer's remorse haha


 

  
  You love Jazz? right? There is a disc called "Antiphone Blues", amazing recording.
  
  Try this one also, "the best of Nina Simone", the recording is quite good!
   
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Nina-Simone/dp/B0000046UW/ref=pd_sim_m_1
   
   
  If you love violin like me, try these
http://www.amazon.com/Violin-Showpieces-Erick-Friedman/dp/B00000E6ON/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1330201562&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/Carmen-Fantasie-Anne-Sophie-Mutter/dp/B000001GII/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1330201620&sr=1-1


----------



## RoadKam

Got my AKG K702s just now. I'm listening to Norah Jones' Feels Like Home mp3s in FLAC. Difference between Bose on-ear headphones and K702's out of the box: night and day! They're SO much more open, with none of the blairing in midrange that the Bose has. Bass seems 'effortless' I guess is the best description. It pervades the soundscape instead of sounding right in the middle of my head. Where with the Bose instruments that only sound in one ear are
   
  With E17: at 0db gain and 60 volume, base is subtle and strong, mids are clear and moderate, highs are bright but not screeching. At 6db gain and 48 volume to get the same intensity, base is a bit fuller, midrange seems a bit more effortless, highs are a bit more present. At 12db gain and 35 volume, base is strong, mid is clear, high is bright. But everything seems to be a bit more 'mixed together' than at 6db... I think this is described as less seperation. I put 12db and full volume on the E17 and cranked the volume of my laptop up. It was uncomfortably loud... WITH NO DISTORTION. Not any. Zip. The duet between Norah Jones and Dolly Parton was clear without buzz, the bass wasn't fuzzy, and I could hear the symbols clear and bright. I'm sitting in the trucking company's lounge (they're working on my truck right now) and a guy about 12 feet away could clearly hear every word of the song.
   
  I listened to my Beatles '1' mp3s... I can listen to them without wincing with these headphones. (Bad quality rip of old-technology recording, vocals blared uncomfortably with no E17 and with the Bose On-Ear headphones.) I'm listening to other mp3s I've collected over many years, and I can now easily tell which were ripped well. The Norah Jones Feels Like Home mp3s sound very good in 320 format - the FLAC sounds no better. I suspect they took the 320 mp3s and up-converted them to FLAC. If not, then this confirms for me what other people in this thread have said: the rip quality is a lot more important than the bitrate. I'll have to get my CD collection out of storage and re-rip them in FLAC to see if I can tell the difference.
   
  So now I'm gonna listen to the Star Wars Blu-rays.   Bottom line: the E17 can drive the K702's very nicely.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Got my AKG K702s just now. I'm listening to Norah Jones' Feels Like Home *mp3s in FLAC.* Difference between Bose on-ear headphones and K702's out of the box: night and day! They're SO much more open, with none of the blairing in midrange that the Bose has. Bass seems 'effortless' I guess is the best description. It pervades the soundscape instead of sounding right in the middle of my head. Where with the Bose instruments that only sound in one ear are
> 
> With E17: at 0db gain and 60 volume, base is subtle and strong, mids are clear and moderate, highs are bright but not screeching. At 6db gain and 48 volume to get the same intensity, base is a bit fuller, midrange seems a bit more effortless, highs are a bit more present. At 12db gain and 35 volume, base is strong, mid is clear, high is bright. But everything seems to be a bit more 'mixed together' than at 6db... I think this is described as less seperation. I* put 12db and full volume on the E17 *and cranked the volume of my laptop up. It was uncomfortably loud... WITH NO DISTORTION. Not any. Zip. The duet between Norah Jones and Dolly Parton was clear without buzz, the bass wasn't fuzzy, and I could hear the symbols clear and bright. I'm sitting in the trucking company's lounge (they're working on my truck right now) and a guy about 12 feet away could clearly hear every word of the song.
> 
> ...


 
  ...mp3's in FLAC?? what?
   
  ..12dB and full volume...wow. depending on the driveabilyt of those AKG's that looks loud.. protect your ears man 
   
  and we went over this once in this thread(like anyone remembers or is going to read it haha) but it's best to leave volume at max and use volume control of E17. don't lower volume on itunes or your music program and leave windows volume to 100%


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ...mp3's in FLAC?? what?
> 
> ..12dB and full volume...wow. depending on the driveabilyt of those AKG's that looks loud.. protect your ears man
> 
> and we went over this once in this thread(like anyone remembers or is going to read it haha) but it's best to leave volume at max and use volume control of E17. don't lower volume on itunes or your music program and leave windows volume to 100%


 

 FLAC versions of songs that I think collectively as 'mp3s.' I think some of the 'FLAC' that I downloaded were mp3s that were re-encoded as FLAC.
   
  Yep, it was loud. It was a one-time only test to see how hard I could drive the K702s without distortion. I think my ears would break before I would get distortion.  I've protected my ears all my life (I was going to be a drummer in highschool, but I decided not to because I didn't want to affect my hearing.) I won't be cranking up the decibels now that I've tested them. 
   
  It's at 100% now... I had it down while I was getting a feel for the volume levels with E17 and new headphones.


----------



## SoundDreamer

*Smooth & Amazing Sound!*
   
  Yesterday, I received my E17. This morning, I've been testing several tracks. I didn't know how good the soundcard in my laptop was until I started listening to the E17. After only a handful of tracks, the one that stuck out the most is a flac track that I have (16/44.1) of Earth, Wind & Fire titled "In The Stone", originally burned from a CD with a DR of "13". This is the track that separates the E17 from my laptop's soundcard. To make it short, everything is smoother and sweeter via the E17. I can hear things via the E17 that I didn't hear on first listen directly through the laptop's headphone jack. Separation is great with more air around instruments. Although, I was expecting a night and day difference between the two, I was surprised that the soundcard in my laptop is not too bad but can be improved upon. Enter the E17. BTW, I love the display and like how it runs cool to the touch.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> *Smooth & Amazing Sound!*
> 
> Yesterday, I received my E17. This morning, I've been testing several tracks. I didn't know how good the soundcard in my laptop was until I started listening to the E17. After only a handful of tracks, the one that stuck out the most is a flac track that I have (16/44.1) of Earth, Wind & Fire titled "In The Stone", originally burned from a CD with a DR of "13". This is the track that separates the E17 from my laptop's soundcard. To make it short, everything is smoother and sweeter via the E17. I can hear things via the E17 that I didn't hear on first listen directly through the laptop's headphone jack. Separation is great with more air around instruments. Although, I was expecting a night and day difference between the two, I was surprised that the soundcard in my laptop is not too bad but can be improved upon. Enter the E17. BTW, I love the display and like how it runs cool to the touch.


 

 Yayyy! Glad you're happy with the E17. My own experience mirrors yours... I have a pretty good sound card in my Sony VAIO 3D laptop, but going digital out to the E17 makes it sound a bit better. (My new headphones improve the sound a LOT more than my E17 does, but then again the E17 improves the sound with these headphones more than with the Bose On-Ear headphones I was using... so for about $400.00 I got about a 300% improvement on sound.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> and we went over this once in this thread(like anyone remembers or is going to read it haha) but it's best to leave volume at max and use volume control of E17. don't lower volume on itunes or your music program and leave windows volume to 100%


 

 I'm running "Vista" and noticed that after I set the Fiio E17 as the default player, Windows automatically sets it to full volume, or 100%. Just an FYI for those wondering.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> FLAC versions of songs that I think collectively as 'mp3s.' I think some of the 'FLAC' that I downloaded were mp3s that were re-encoded as FLAC.
> 
> Yep, it was loud. It was a one-time only test to see how hard I could drive the K702s without distortion. I think my ears would break before I would get distortion.  I've protected my ears all my life (I was going to be a drummer in highschool, but I decided not to because I didn't want to affect my hearing.) I won't be cranking up the decibels now that I've tested them.
> 
> It's at 100% now... I had it down while I was getting a feel for the volume levels with E17 and new headphones.


 
   
  ^i get the feeling of that on some of my songs too. sometimes it's mastering sometimes its the encoding. usually 90% of the time i can tell. however there are some that are...meh
   
  i know hwat you mean about one time test. my headphones are easier to drive than K702 probably so i won't even go near max. plus i believe it's dangerous to a headphone to go tht high if it's a new pair. all new headphones i have ever tried had some harshness or highs that couldn't really reach and flat boomy not as well controlled bass

   


  Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> *Smooth & Amazing Sound!*
> 
> Yesterday, I received my E17. This morning, I've been testing several tracks. I didn't know how good the soundcard in my laptop was until I started listening to the E17. After only a handful of tracks, the one that stuck out the most is a flac track that I have (16/44.1) of Earth, Wind & Fire titled "In The Stone", originally burned from a CD with a DR of "13". This is the track that separates the E17 from my laptop's soundcard. To make it short, everything is smoother and sweeter via the E17. I can hear things via the E17 that I didn't hear on first listen directly through the laptop's headphone jack. Separation is great with more air around instruments. Although, I was expecting a night and day difference between the two, I was surprised that the soundcard in my laptop is not too bad but can be improved upon. Enter the E17. BTW, I love the display and like how it runs cool to the touch.


 
  as you have been here a while too. are you overal happy? the bolded stuff seems positive. how does this meet your expectations?
   
  no im not getting into old habits. i just wanted to know what SoundDreamer thought as he's been here with us a while too


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Yayyy! Glad you're happy with the E17. My own experience mirrors yours... I have a pretty good sound card in my Sony VAIO 3D laptop, but going digital out to the E17 makes it sound a bit better. (My new headphones improve the sound a LOT more than my E17 does, but then again the E17 improves the sound with these headphones more than with the Bose On-Ear headphones I was using... so for about $400.00 I got about a 300% improvement on sound.


 
   
  I concur again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The E17 gives me better sound quality with the amplification I need for my headphones.
   
  I wonder if the brand of Laptop has anything to do with how good the soundcard is. Maybe, sound card is two words? LOL Anyway, I have a Toshiba from exactly two years ago.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> as you have been here a while too. are you overal happy? the bolded stuff seems positive. how does this meet your expectations?


 

 Yes, it does. Thanks for asking! It's a keeper. Their are two players I'm still considering. The first one is the iBasso D7. At some point, I still may get it. The other one, which isn't out yet, is the Audioquest "Dragonfly". I'm psyched about the "Dragonfly" because the whole thing plugs directly into a usb port. No cable needed.


----------



## SniperCzar

For those of you with laptops who are afraid of losing adapters (micca only gives you a cable with a single mini on it, you still have to use an adapter to get mini to mini), this took me forever to find in the flood of cables on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Audio-TosLink-Cable/dp/B001ZU4KBE/

 Also I'm starting to wonder if I can't hack up a large case like this one and wire myself a custom double dock on the inside and control panel to the outside. Does anyone know if I can use the dock connector to alter the digital volume control on the E17 without using the buttons on the E17 itself? Or will I have to drill holes for controls in the hard case?
 http://www.amazon.com/Durable-Hard-Shell-Generations-Apple-Classic/dp/B004Y7CS6Y/


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> For those of you with laptops who are afraid of losing adapters (micca only gives you a cable with a single mini on it, you still have to use an adapter to get mini to mini), this took me forever to find in the flood of cables on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Audio-TosLink-Cable/dp/B001ZU4KBE/
> 
> Also I'm starting to wonder if I can't hack up a large case like this one and wire myself a custom double dock on the inside and control panel to the outside. Does anyone know if I can use the dock connector to alter the digital volume control on the E17 without using the buttons on the E17 itself? Or will I have to drill holes for controls in the hard case?
> http://www.amazon.com/Durable-Hard-Shell-Generations-Apple-Classic/dp/B004Y7CS6Y/


 



   
  i prefer this. monoprice fancy cable with two adapters on it
   
   
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E1-White-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B002UBREZQ
   
  basically you will be dual amping...triple amping actually as teh E17 has a pre amp and then a driving amp..but it shouldn't matter too much.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> basically you will be dual amping...triple amping actually as teh E17 has a pre amp and then a driving amp..but it shouldn't matter too much.


 

 That's not exactly what I'm wondering. I just want to be able to adjust the E17's existing volume controls without having to take it apart and solder extra leads on the volume up and volume down buttons. Is there some way to control it through the dock like an iPod or is just connector just for line-level audio I/O?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> That's not exactly what I'm wondering. I just want to be able to adjust the E17's existing volume controls without having to take it apart and solder extra leads on the volume up and volume down buttons. Is there some way to control it through the dock like an iPod or is just connector just for line-level audio I/O?


 


  you want the ipod to be able to control volume? i've never heard of that being done.. i guess ...it might work. but the volume control on ipod controls it's own internal amp. an LOD bypasses the internal amp and headphone jack circuitry


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> For those of you with laptops who are afraid of losing adapters (micca only gives you a cable with a single mini on it, you still have to use an adapter to get mini to mini), this took me forever to find in the flood of cables on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Audio-TosLink-Cable/dp/B001ZU4KBE/
> 
> ...


 
  I found the adapter that Micca shipped with the cable to be tight enough not to be easily dislodged... mini to mini users likely won't be taking the adapter off very often. ($.02)


----------



## SniperCzar

Yeah it's pretty tight fitting with the one that comes from Micca, but for those of you who ordered elsewhere you might have trouble. My Belkin optical cable is loose enough gravity can pull the mini TOSLINK off.


----------



## bowei006

For anyone wondering. The one's from monoprice COME OFF PRETTY EASY. not gravity can take it off. but it doesn't take much. i have to hold it and teh cable when inserting and removing. the one that came with the micca cable is solid.
   

   
  this is the monoprice one ^
   
   

  this is micca store one^


----------



## AgentXXL

First off, congrats to the new batch of E17 owners...  I hope everyone ends up getting what they hoped for!
  
  Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> That's not exactly what I'm wondering. I just want to be able to adjust the E17's existing volume controls without having to take it apart and solder extra leads on the volume up and volume down buttons. Is there some way to control it through the dock like an iPod or is just connector just for line-level audio I/O?


 

 I haven't come across any pinouts for the dock connector of the E17 (and E7). My assumption based on the way they work docked to the E9 is that volume control from the dock connector isn't likely. To my knowledge the dock connector contains a line out and a duplication of the USB port connections. I haven't come across anything that would indicate volume control is possible, but hopefully Feiao can respond to this one. My guess is you'll have to either solder wires to the switches in the E17 (voiding the warranty) or drill holes in the hard case to provide access to the E17 buttons.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Yeah it's pretty tight fitting with the one that comes from Micca, but for those of you who ordered elsewhere you might have trouble. My Belkin optical cable is loose enough gravity can pull the mini TOSLINK off.


 

 Now that would be a pain. Yep, I think I'd get a mini to mini cable if the one Micca had sent was like that.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Now that would be a pain. Yep, I think I'd get a mini to mini cable if the one Micca had sent was like that.


 

 Monoprice does ship mini - mini TOSLink cables - see the bottom of this page:
   
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229
   
  You can also get them from Startech.com - here's the links:
   
10 ft Thin Miniplug Digital Audio Cable
   
6 ft Thin Miniplug Digital Audio Cable
   
3 ft Thin Miniplug Digital Audio Cable


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Monoprice does ship mini - mini TOSLink cables - see the bottom of this page:
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229
> 
> ...


 

 The 3ft is out of stock on Monoprice but it's in stock on Amazon (for a bit more money)


----------



## Bonobo Loco

Since this is a dac and amp, is it all you would need to connect a laptop to your headphones? For example, I currently have an external usb sound card for my laptop. When I get the E17, would I skip the sound card or use it? So like laptop > e17 > headphones OR laptop > sound card > e17 > headphone? Are there any other additional components I'm forgetting about? Also any random advice about how to get the best quality out of your laptop sound would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





bonobo loco said:


> Since this is a dac and amp, is it all you would need to connect a laptop to your headphones? For example, I currently have an external usb sound card for my laptop. When I get the E17, would I skip the sound card or use it? So like laptop > e17 > headphones OR laptop > sound card > e17 > headphone? Are there any other additional components I'm forgetting about? Also any random advice about how to get the best quality out of your laptop sound would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.


 

 Headphones are the centerpiece to any great sound. With the E17, you can go USB out from your laptop into the E17 and then to headphones. If optical out is more convenient, you can do that as well. So laptop <Digital out via USB or optical into the E17> headphones. The biggest improvement I got to my laptop sound was a $260.00 set of K702 headphones. Worth every penny!


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





bonobo loco said:


> Since this is a dac and amp, is it all you would need to connect a laptop to your headphones? For example, I currently have an external usb sound card for my laptop. When I get the E17, would I skip the sound card or use it? So like laptop > e17 > headphones OR laptop > sound card > e17 > headphone? Are there any other additional components I'm forgetting about? Also any random advice about how to get the best quality out of your laptop sound would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.


 
   
  That's correct. You can use the E17 as either a DAC and an amp or just as an amp.


----------



## lshalamb

So. My E17 was just delivered today (even though tracking says it was yesterday 3:22 p.m.), I guess I just "love" usps... what a terrible company.
  Anyway, thanks to them for at least delivering this magnificent thing.
  I own a pair of Sennheiser HD600s, here is shortly what i think of this amp/dac:
  I will be using this with my laptop, as I am now, so E17 gave HD600s more detail and increased sound stage, if you choose to EQ bass and treble, (I found that setting them to 10 and 4 respectively suits my taste) you will be satisfied.
  I think main con of HD600s is that they have 0 bass. E17 definitely helps them improve on this front, the cans even start jumping a bit, which is nice! BUT I must say the bass is never overwhelming, since these are HD600s, more like it adds to general sound signature. I still think HD600s would fit classic music, maybe jazz, but elsewise if you're looking for a pair of cans, don't go this way.
   
  P.S. The T-shirt that came with it is also lovely 
   
  All described ^ is IMO
   
   
  Forgot to add: the device which has been delivered from Miccastore is from 1st batch (i remember Feao say something about the fact that 2nd batch is supposed to carry name "Alpen" and this one hasn't anywhere)
   
  actually, I'm kidna curious, what else is the difference b/ween 1st and 2nd batches?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bonobo loco said:


> Since this is a dac and amp, is it all you would need to connect a laptop to your headphones? For example, I currently have an external usb sound card for my laptop. When I get the E17, would I skip the sound card or use it? So like laptop > e17 > headphones OR laptop > sound card > e17 > headphone? Are there any other additional components I'm forgetting about? Also any random advice about how to get the best quality out of your laptop sound would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.


 
  in case RoadKam's responce wasn't clear enough. just go laptop,E17 and then headphones. be sure to use USB  and not use your laptops 3.5mm headphone out into the E17..that's a no no. if your laptop has optical which i doubt it does you can use that too. optical on E17 supports up to 192/24..not that it matters too much for newbies(your own computers hardware and sofware has to support 192/24 over SPDIF SPECIFICALLY first. Mac OSX limits optical to 96KHz. Windows supports whatever you want however my desktop motherboards SPDIF out only supports up to 96KHz)
   
  like RoadKam also said. the best improvement in sound would be a new headphone 
   
  to get best quality on a windows laptop. just plug the E17 in. it wil instal. give it a minute. open up sound menu and be sure to set it as default device

  like this picture. then see that properties button in the bottom right? click it. go to advanced. and set it to this setting

   
  this will be best optimization for E17  diff of 44.1 and whatever is debatable and depends on person to person. but just set it to this for best performance. 
   
  also be sure to use CD ripped lossless tracks in .wav .aiff or preferable .m4a (ALAC, don't be confused. AAC also uses this ending as they both use MPEG 4 audio container) and .flac as it is compressed and let her rip  
   
  oh and another piece of advice. when you set E17 as default windows should set volume to 100%. im not sure if this is everytime. never lower or use volume settings on comptuer. so don't raise or lower the volume. and don't use application control. so if VLC or itunes is at 100%..leave it. don't touch it. use E17 as volume control. again. most won't hear anything if they do, but technically this is bad and or not recomended as you now are using your computer to do this and that..blah
  
   
   
   


  Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> So. My E17 was just delivered today (even though tracking says it was yesterday 3:22 p.m.), I guess I just "love" usps... what a terrible company.
> Anyway, thanks to them for at least delivering this magnificent thing.
> I own a pair of Sennheiser HD600s, here is shortly what i think of this amp/dac:
> I will be using this with my laptop, as I am now, so E17 gave HD600s more detail and increased sound stage, if you choose to EQ bass and treble, (I found that setting them to 10 and 4 respectively suits my taste) you will be satisfied.
> ...


 
  so you like it right? ppl forget to add that in a lot. Were you the one that had his E17 cancleded many times and raged a few times? if so do you think this is a keeper for you? are you getting an E9?
   
  i love the T-Shirt too. not for the design but for audiophile pride  the FiiO on the shirt is awesome.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Unfortunately, my t-shirt died after arrival. When I received my package, I tried ripping it open but had a hard time. So, what did I do? I took a pair of scissors and shook the package from one side so that everything would slide down into the package. I then snipped a small incision, enough that I could get my finger inside for strength to pull it apart. Upon removing all the items, I noticed that the t-shirt was cut exactly quarter of an inch. Doh!


----------



## bowei006

don't use scissors to open ur micca package people. what series do you have? as in serial number. it's on the box


----------



## mdyoung216

After having used mine for a couple days I have to say over all I happy with it.  I can't say it improved anything, since it's hooked up to my desktop computer and I normally used my MP3 player if I wanted to listen to music while on the computer.  The only minor problem I'm having is that randomly a song will "skip."  I'll then play that part of the song over and it will be OK.  I have the E17 hooked up through USB and I'm listening to MP3s that I ripped from CDs or bought from Amazon using the Rhapsody program.  Is this more likely to be the E17 or a hiccup with the computer?


----------



## mdyoung216

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Unfortunately, my t-shirt died after arrival. When I received my package, I tried ripping it open but had a hard time. So, what did I do? I took a pair of scissors and shook the package from one side so that everything would slide down into the package. I then snipped a small incision, enough that I could get my finger inside for strength to pull it apart. Upon removing all the items, I noticed that the t-shirt was cut exactly quarter of an inch. Doh!


 


  I gave my shirt to my wife.  It was tagged XL, but sure wasn't a man's XL.


----------



## lshalamb

Since I 've dealt with cloths from China before (for domestic consumption), this is... something you may call "Chinese XL". People there are much different in sizes to us/europeans.
 Normally I wear "M" size, this XL T-shirt I received fits me just well.
  Quote: 





mdyoung216 said:


> I gave my shirt to my wife.  It was tagged XL, but sure wasn't a man's XL.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> don't use scissors to open ur micca package people. what series do you have? as in serial number. it's on the box


 

 Yeah, people....how could you even think of such a thing?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My SN ends with 0761.


----------



## weitn

Quote:


appledappleman said:


> I plan on this exact set-up in the future. Except maybe with the LD MKIII, aye or nay?


 

 Sorry. No experience with LD MKIII. You might want read all about LD MKIII in other forums. Read about what other headfiers are saying about LDMKIII. You might want to read how this amp compare with other amps with similar price range. e.g. find a Asgard forum, then use the 'Search this Thread' function search for LD MKIII.

 Before I decided to buy the Lyr, I read about the Lyr in the forum below (link below). Lyr has many good reviews, best bang for the buck and many headfiers prefer it over other amps. It comes with 15 days return policy and 5 years warranty. From what I read, different tube brand and different tube model has different sound signature. It is matter of getting the right tube. Will see how true is that when I test Lyr with different tubes in the future. The cheaper models, Asgard or Valhalla, are actually good enough and do really well with the HD650. But since I have extra cash at hand and there could be a big possibility (like some headfiers eventually do) that I'll get an orthos headphone (e.g. LCD-2 or HE-6) or power hungry headphone in the future, I decided to go for the Lyr.
   
  I am glad that the E17 could act as my portable amp (when I am on the go or at office) and DAC for the Lyr.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/530556/new-schiit-lyr-hybrid-6w-headphone-amp-yes-six-watts-rms


----------



## bowei006

The shirts are unisexual. The design makes u think otherwise. Im young so it doesnt matter. Middle aged men and this shirt would not work too well


----------



## gEaK

Gutted to be reading about everyone receiving their E17s while I'm still waiting around with no updates.
   
  Is it just me? Has anyone else actually received a unit from the mp4nation 2nd batch/shipment yet?


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





geak said:


> Gutted to be reading about everyone receiving their E17s while I'm still waiting around with no updates.
> 
> Is it just me? Has anyone else actually received a unit from the mp4nation 2nd batch/shipment yet?


 


  Nothing here. I wasn't even told that I was going to be in the second batch when I ordered (on the 11th).


----------



## CRS27

Back in stock at The Micca!  Got mine!  Happy buying and good luck.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> what series do you have? as in serial number. it's on the box


 

 Sorry! I did answer your question in my last Post. For some reason, when I go in to edit the Post, I can see that the sentence is there but when I press the "Submit" button, only the first sentence shows up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My serial number ends in 761.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





crs27 said:


> Back in stock at The Micca!  Got mine!  Happy buying and good luck.


 

 You've heard the expression, you snooze you lose? Well, I was sleeping when the announcement was made. Darn, I wanted another t-shirt!


----------



## bdeuce22

Quote: 





crs27 said:


> Back in stock at The Micca!  Got mine!  Happy buying and good luck.


 


  dont' tell me they already sold out again.


----------



## bowei006

@SoundDreamer 
  ...you want two E17's?
   
  @Bdeuce22
  it seems...that is correct. i think they are slowly putting them on and off. basically dividing the bigger stock they got form FiiO this time into differnt parts so it won't be as congested and more people would have chances..meaning. not first come first serve but whoever was lucky to see it. kinda not fair. but im guesing they are doing this as they probably went through hell the first time. sending so many out in 2 days wasn't fun and since they had a USPS guarantee shipping. they can't be later than that..


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





bdeuce22 said:


> dont' tell me they already sold out again.


 


  Just follow their twitter page


----------



## bowei006

QUESTION TO EVERYONE:
   
  I have asked before and a few users came to answer. *How many people have a small rattle in their E17?* Shake it a bit in all directions. Oh and shake at your own expense, if it slips out of your hands or the little rattle does system is not my fault or anything. 
   
  on another note:
  Remember people that the FiiO L7 can be used to turn your E17 into a dedicated DAC  I personally find this more worth it than spending $800 on another for very small improvements that are probably not nearly audible enough in improvements over the current WM8740.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Quote:
> 
> Sorry. No experience with LD MKIII. You might want read all about LD MKIII in other forums. Read about what other headfiers are saying about LDMKIII. You might want to read how this amp compare with other amps with similar price range. e.g. find a Asgard forum, then use the 'Search this Thread' function search for LD MKIII.
> 
> ...


 
  Yea I keep hearing about the Lyr. Also the asgard but I just really looking for tube amps and the more I read about the LDMKIII the more I'm hearing how the pair with the hd650 isn't as special. 

 Well sorry for getting thread off track. Going to look into the valhalla now haha.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> QUESTION TO EVERYONE:
> 
> *How many people have a small rattle in their E17?*


 

 I'm almost positive that every single unit is like this. I plan on trying to open mine up later to see what it may be.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Problem with my E17 help?

 So i've been using the E17 perfectly, using the optical, now I wanted to try to use the USB because I was curious, 


   
  To that setting (This isn't the correct audio playback but I don't want it to crash so I'm using a different one) I always get the blue screen. 

 Is it not worth to keep trying over and over? Am I missing something I'm supposed to download? Also, when using the optical is it making the E17 a DAC or an Amp?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Problem with my E17 help?
> 
> So i've been using the E17 perfectly, using the optical, now I wanted to try to use the USB because I was curious,
> 
> ...


 

 what crashes? when you use 96KHz or 192KHz? if it crashes when using any of them, it would be a hardware or software error. this is probably on your hardware and software end.  
  proceed with my advice only if you maybe want help/solution i am not responsible for any damages or lost data; lets continue. make a restore point on your computer. then go and download the newest driver for your S/PDIF. it might be your chipset driver, south bridge and or audio driver. update as you see fit. then try again
   
  When using with computer over USB, or S/PDIF(coaxil or optical toslink) the E17 will engage it's DAC and amp. when using through AUX in, the E17's amp is engaged. the DAC is not.


----------



## SoundDreamer

By that windows picture, it looks like he's trying to change the resolution on his internal sound card, not the E17. His system may be crashing because it doesn't support the higher resolution? You'd think that it wouldn't have the available setting in the first place.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> what crashes? when you use 96KHz or 192KHz? if it crashes when using any of them, it would be a hardware or software error. this is probably on your hardware and software end.
> proceed with my advice only if you maybe want help/solution i am not responsible for any damages or lost data; lets continue. make a restore point on your computer. then go and download the newest driver for your S/PDIF. it might be your chipset driver, south bridge and or audio driver. update as you see fit. then try again
> 
> When using with computer over USB, or S/PDIF(coaxil or optical toslink) the E17 will engage it's DAC and amp. when using through AUX in, the E17's amp is engaged. the DAC is not.


 
  When using my USB 3.0 slot or 2.0 I can't even set it to 192Khz. I'm not full sure why, but I'm going to download the newest driver for the S/PDIF right now and come back. 

 Wish me luck haha


----------



## xxhaxx

For the E17, USB is 24/96 max and for optical/coax 24/196


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> QUESTION TO EVERYONE:
> 
> I have asked before and a few users came to answer. *How many people have a small rattle in their E17?* Shake it a bit in all directions. Oh and shake at your own expense, if it slips out of your hands or the little rattle does system is not my fault or anything.
> ...


 
  Mine rattles faintly when shaken in any direction.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> By that windows picture, it looks like he's trying to change the resolution on his internal sound card, not the E17. His system may be crashing because it doesn't support the higher resolution? You'd think that it wouldn't have the available setting in the first place.


 


  ....crap your right. i thought he was on E17 settings


  Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> When using my USB 3.0 slot or 2.0 I can't even set it to 192Khz. I'm not full sure why, but I'm going to download the newest driver for the S/PDIF right now and come back.
> 
> Wish me luck haha


 
  USB only supports up to 192KHz for the E17. SPDIF is what supports 192 KHz. also it may be different for you but the E17 in a USB slot usually has it's name on it instead of the generic sound chip name. for example
   

   
  my system calls it SPDIF but it's USB. SPDIF Interface (TX1) is my real optical S/PDIF connection
  
   


  Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> For the E17, USB is 24/96 max and for optical/coax 24/196


 
  yeah thanks. i forgot to check which one he was setting


----------



## Y2HBK

Hmm, when I use my E17 on my mac it defaults to 48k, 16bit. Does anyone know how to switch it to 96k, 24bit on a Mac?


----------



## xxhaxx

You cannot switch from 16 bit/48K t o 24bit/96K. Those are the output from your source. So if your song is 24/96 then it would appear as 24/96. But you also have to be in WASAPI/ASIO mode.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Well I explained earlier, that I wasn't showing the correct one because I was afraid it would crash just checking the properties (before changing the settings on the E17 but here)

 Here is the real one once I insert E17.
   
   
This is the setting I chose. 

 Apply, and bam blue screen again even after updating the audio drivers. It might be just my computer because if it is only mine then i don't mind considering i'm using the optical cable and I don't think there is any benefits of using USB. But if it does this to even my friend's laptop then its going to get annoying considering it doesn't have an optical cable.

 In the end its broken but i'm still happy.


*****Different Topic*****
   
  Is getting the CmoyBB paired with this for my Dt770 80ohms going to benefit my cans at all or should I just save up for future amps and headphones?(Way in the future haha)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> Hmm, when I use my E17 on my mac it defaults to 48k, 16bit. Does anyone know how to switch it to 96k, 24bit on a Mac?


 


  don't worry. i got you Y2K.
   
  open up "Audio Midi Setup"
   
  you will see blah and blah. just set the format and interger and what not to what you want
   
  looks like this:



   
  remember. Mac OSX limits S/PDIF output to 96KHz


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> You cannot switch from 16 bit/48K t o 24bit/96K. Those are the output from your source. So if your song is 24/96 then it would appear as 24/96. But you also have to be in WASAPI/ASIO mode.


 


  you can. it's called down sampling. E17 and most DAC's do it  
   



  Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Well I explained earlier, that I wasn't showing the correct one because I was afraid it would crash just checking the properties (before changing the settings on the E17 but here)
> 
> Here is the real one once I insert E17.
> 
> ...


 
  did you update drivers?


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> you can. it's called down sampling. E17 and most DAC's do it
> 
> 
> did you update drivers?


 

 Oh sorry I thought I included that info. Yes I did, same effect. I'm going to try it on my girlfriend's macbook later i guess. Had to download the drivers from Realtek. Any other ideas? I'm going to try it later on my girlfriend's macbook and if that doesn't work then I don't know what will.


----------



## SniperCzar

I don't get any rattle at all, no matter how hard I shake it in any direction. SN 771.


----------



## Y2HBK

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> don't worry. i got you Y2K.
> 
> open up "Audio Midi Setup"
> 
> ...


 

 Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!!!


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I don't get any rattle at all, no matter how hard I shake it in any direction. SN 771.


 

 Mine rattles SN 779


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> Mine rattles SN 779


 
  Mine rattles, not sure where to find the SN


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Mine rattles, not sure where to find the SN


 


  it's on the FiiO box itself, not on unit...suprisingly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  from what it seems now, there is some loose or not as well soldered part by design that can be knocked off when shipping here.
   
*FiiO please fix this problem with future units.*
   
*I feel like i'm getting back into old habits, but i swear..im just answering questions*


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> it's on the FiiO box itself, not on unit...suprisingly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Haha I guess they just don't like me enough to put it on my box. 

 Anyways, sorry for all the questions. I still feel new to all this stuff. Well I am still new to this stuff, but I enjoy picking up new hobbies and I am dedicated to this hobby at the moment. (My wallet isn't though)


----------



## SniperCzar

It's on the top of the box, stand it up so the picture is facing you and then look at the top.


----------



## ObeyurMaster

I've been enjoying my new E17 over the weekend. Surprised to hear about the rattle. Mine seemed very well built with a great finish.
   
  I also spent a lot of time comparing the E17 to my now sold E7 and relishing the improvement. Only negative aspect (or positive as far as my wallet is concerned) is that even with the E17, I'm still not able to tell the difference between 320kbps and flac with the ABX test. Oh well...


----------



## kalbee

I should have gotten my e17 on Thursday but Canada Post screwed up and... well, hoping for the best.
   
  As for the rattle, think it's just that the unit is not well secured inside the shells? In that case maybe just applying foam or rubber to stabilize it could fix the problem. Must be some sort of loose fitting/part if it rattles when you shake it.


----------



## SoundDreamer

I removed the rear cover to the E17. This will be as far as I will go before replacing the cover. I discovered that the Lo Bypass switch is slightly loose and can rattle when shaken. It can be seen at the top of the E17. Well, really side but top of photo. There is no cause for alarm and is a normal anomaly.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Let me rephrase what I stated about the switch. It's not the switch itself. It's the plastic piece that slides over the switch. This plastic piece is what you use to activate the actual switch. It's like the cover to the switch itself.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Let me rephrase what I stated about the switch. It's not the switch itself. It's the plastic piece that slides over the switch. This plastic piece is what you use to activate the actual switch. It's like the cover to the switch itself.


 

 So it's bascially a piece that keeps dust out of the unit. I can live with that. Thanks for taking one for the team, SoundDreamer.


----------



## lshalamb

Can anyone help me with the following please: 
  I got e17, a laptop with SPDIF out and a pair of cans. How do I (if can at all) setup my E17 for the headphones via SPDIF out?


----------



## ebmp19

Yes, they send mine right after I complained


----------



## bowei006

Thanks sound dreamer!
   
  Ishalamb is the spdif out on ur pc full toslink or mini toslink? If its mini toslink u just need a two end mini toslink to minitoslink cable. If its regular toslink u need a toslink to mini toslink cable. Please note toslink ends can be easily converted to mini toslink with an adapter


----------



## Etrips

Well, according to mp4nation's facebook post the second batch got pushed back to the end of March.... :mad:


----------



## xbugx

Quote: 





etrips said:


> Well, according to mp4nation's facebook post the second batch got pushed back to the end of March....


 


  ...Just ordered one yesterday thinking I'd get it in a few weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 On another note, does anyone with a fischer fa-011 know how it pairs with the e17?


----------



## mrAdrian

Always felt like cancelling but the thought of 'just another 2~3 weeks wait' and 'that's a $30AUD difference' kept coming. I'll just get myself forget about my order and wait for the surprise...
   
  Should have followed everyone and cancelled my order right when they announced their first delay.
   
   
   
  I am currently severely broke so I stuck with their preorder, but for those who live in Aus, http://i-enjoy.com.au/ProductDetails.aspx?ID=125, they have stock and fantastic customer service. (If anyone got a discount, let me know so I will quickly change my mind)
  Quote: 





xbugx said:


> ...Just ordered one yesterday thinking I'd get it in a few weeks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





etrips said:


> Well, according to mp4nation's facebook post the second batch got pushed back to the end of March....


 


   






 FiiO better have a good explanation for this. I've asked them on their facebook page


----------



## veracocha

Quote: 





parall3l said:


>


 
   






 FiiO better have a good explanation for this. I've asked them on their facebook page


  Can you give me a facebook link , where is the post ?


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





veracocha said:


> Can you give me a facebook link , where is the post ?


 

 Didn't really ask about anything specific, but here it is

 http://www.facebook.com/fiiophil/posts/330992513613789


----------



## veracocha

...


----------



## xbugx

https://www.facebook.com/mp4nation


----------



## mrAdrian

How is it FiiO not mp4nation's problem... How much stock did they think they were going to get? So for months they still have not satisfied their preorders... What is going on


----------



## bowei006

Their were long posts on this from sounddreamer and agentxxl a few pages back. Its nobodies fault. Fiio already moves more units than many other audiophile companies and the e17 is handmade. Fiio is a maker, not a seller they dont even have to come and provide us with updates as they arent a retailer we are buying from


----------



## gEaK

Wow, this really is never ending..
   
  I don't want to get into a huge debate over whos "fault" it is again (agentxxl made a great post about this) however, I do wonder where mp4nation keep getting these "expected" dates from that have now been pushed back a total of 2 months.
   
  Are they simply making them up to entice customers into pre-ordering? It's possible, but when I emailed asking about it they told me it was due to Fiio delaying production.
   
  It seems we'll never know the truth for sure, but either way it's extremely frustrating.


----------



## skyline315

It's alright, guys.  Go outside.  Breathe some fresh air.  Get some exercise.  Come back in a month


----------



## lshalamb

K to be clear, it's Alienware m17xR3 I believe it has full toslink. TM-50-03 cable arrived with my e17 from micca, it has 2-way tosslink (one side- mini + adapter). I connected this adapter to e17, the second head - to laptop's SPDIF, now, it was all good, when I tried to play a sound through OPT input, E17 went crazy switching between "hold" and OPT "20" (that's the volume) back and forth and producing a crackling sound like a radio does when it can't find a station.
  After I rebooted E17, its screen stopped acting wild, but the sound persists
  Hm..?
 Quick update: E17 screen goes crazy when I actually play sounds on my laptop. apaart from ridiculous background noise, the sounds themselves are affected by it
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thanks sound dreamer!
> 
> Ishalamb is the spdif out on ur pc full toslink or mini toslink? If its mini toslink u just need a two end mini toslink to minitoslink cable. If its regular toslink u need a toslink to mini toslink cable. Please note toslink ends can be easily converted to mini toslink with an adapter


----------



## bowei006

Ishalamb. Is spdif set to default device in sound options
   
   
  It probably is but just asking . This is most likely a computer hardware and or software(driver and audi software) error and not e17. Computer is probably sending it stuff it cant "understand" yea, this could be a problem with e17s spdif receiver as well but for now the higher chance is on ur end. See if another frienss conpyter has spdif and test. If it works on theirs its on ur end. Alienware and dell have aone of the lowest reliability scores. Just bc its fast and looks good doesnt mean its a good pc sadly.


----------



## lshalamb

Well in all fairness, I got it for a year now and It worked perfectly! Now, i tried to set up my HD600s directly into SPDIF, that worked. However, after E17 it doesn't anymore. weird...
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Ishalamb. Is spdif set to default device in sound options
> 
> 
> It probably is but just asking . This is most likely a computer hardware and or software(driver and audi software) error and not e17. Computer is probably sending it stuff it cant "understand" yea, this could be a problem with e17s spdif receiver as well but for now the higher chance is on ur end. See if another frienss conpyter has spdif and test. If it works on theirs its on ur end. Alienware and dell have aone of the lowest reliability scores. Just bc its fast and looks good doesnt mean its a good pc sadly.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> K to be clear, it's Alienware m17xR3 I believe it has full toslink. TM-50-03 cable arrived with my e17 from micca, it has 2-way tosslink (one side- mini + adapter). I connected this adapter to e17, the second head - to laptop's SPDIF, now, it was all good, when I tried to play a sound through OPT input, E17 went crazy switching between "hold" and OPT "20" (that's the volume) back and forth and producing a crackling sound like a radio does when it can't find a station.
> After I rebooted E17, its screen stopped acting wild, but the sound persists
> Hm..?
> Quick update: E17 screen goes crazy when I actually play sounds on my laptop. apaart from ridiculous background noise, the sounds themselves are affected by it


 
   
  Sounds like the laptop is trying to scale everything up to Dolby Digital. My E17 crackled when I forgot to turn off bitstreaming and it couldn't decode the DD signal.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Well in all fairness, I got it for a year now and It worked perfectly! Now, i tried to set up my HD600s directly into SPDIF, that worked. However, after E17 it doesn't anymore. weird...


 

 HD600 directly into SPDIF? If it's a shared analog/SPDIF plug on your computer, then plugging the optical cable in may have set the computer to optical mode on the shared plug. If you go into the sound properties in your control panel and look at 'manage audio devices,' you should see two entries (at least.) One will be Speaker/HP and the other will be Digital Output(Optical) - if it's set to Optical then the headphones won't work when plugged into the shared jack. Highlight Speaker and click 'set to default' and your headphones should work again.
   
  As for the E17, does it work when you have a stereo audio cable between your laptop's headphone jack (on Speaker mode) and the E17's AUX input? If so, then does it work when you have a USB cable connected between your laptop and the E17's mini-USB plug, with your 'manage audio devices' set to SPDIF? (Which should appear when you have the E17 plugged into the laptop via USB) Also, be sure you're plugging the optical into the input next to the headphone jack on the E17 (on top, not bottom) and not the AUX input.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Sounds like the laptop is trying to scale everything up to Dolby Digital. My E17 crackled when I forgot to turn off bitstreaming and it couldn't decode the DD signal.


 

 When I try to use Dolby out via optical, the E17 just throws up it's hands and sits there. I think I like that better than crackling.


----------



## Stoney

I hope the E17 has a better DAC performance (bass at least) than the E7.  Out of my MacBook USB, with the same files as my iPhone analog out, the iPhone has a proper amount of bass and generally more pleasing and dimensional sound.  
   
  Anyone else noticed something similar with the E7? 
   
  Anybody compared something similar, or at least the bass via USB, between the E17 vs E7?


----------



## bowei006

Hmm hd600 into spdif

A computer working flawlesly does not mean it will not get any problems. I was just stating facts and experience

E17 and E7 have exact same DAC. What will and does change performance is the e17s new receiver chips and ts two more powerful and better operational amplifiers. ... And eq options


----------



## lshalamb

OK this sounds helpful now. Here are the audio devices I see: SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) Speakrsr/headphones Communications headphones, Digital Audio (S/PDIF)
  Now, I tried manipulating E17 unplugged from the USB, with OPT input, the crackling sound persists still. "Configure" button does not work for any of these devices so I am not sure how to set things right. Someone mentioned Dolby Digital encode format does not work for E17 so I unmarked it, no positive result. I didn't use AUX input of course. Can anyone provide some kind of ... instruction to how I set it to spdif or optical?
  Quote: 





roadkam said:


> HD600 directly into SPDIF? If it's a shared analog/SPDIF plug on your computer, then plugging the optical cable in may have set the computer to optical mode on the shared plug. If you go into the sound properties in your control panel and look at 'manage audio devices,' you should see two entries (at least.) One will be Speaker/HP and the other will be Digital Output(Optical) - if it's set to Optical then the headphones won't work when plugged into the shared jack. Highlight Speaker and click 'set to default' and your headphones should work again.
> 
> As for the E17, does it work when you have a stereo audio cable between your laptop's headphone jack (on Speaker mode) and the E17's AUX input? If so, then does it work when you have a USB cable connected between your laptop and the E17's mini-USB plug, with your 'manage audio devices' set to SPDIF? (Which should appear when you have the E17 plugged into the laptop via USB) Also, be sure you're plugging the optical into the input next to the headphone jack on the E17 (on top, not bottom) and not the AUX input.


----------



## lshalamb

Yea I definitely understand that. however, as previous person mentioned, there's a possibility to input headphones directly as this is combined jack and that works, so I don't think that's the jack.must be wrong setup or smth else
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Hmm hd600 into spdif
> A computer working flawlesly does not mean it will not get any problems. I was just stating facts and experience
> E17 and E7 have exact same DAC. What will and does change performance is the e17s new receiver chips and ts two more powerful and better operational amplifiers. ... And eq options


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Hmm hd600 into spdif
> A computer working flawlesly does not mean it will not get any problems. I was just stating facts and experience
> E17 and E7 have exact same DAC. What will and does change performance is the e17s new receiver chips and ts two more powerful and better operational amplifiers. ... And eq options


 
   
   
  It is understandable to compare the E17 with the E7, but performance-wise the E17 should be compared to the iBasso D10. Well it is not better than the D10, but "within the range of vision". The E7 sounds too dry IMO. They all share the same DAC, but E17, E7 and D10 sound very different.
   
  E7 = lean curd cheese
   
  E17 = juicy beefsteak
   
  D10 = juicy kobe meat beefsteak


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rafa said:


> It is understandable to compare the E17 with the E7, but performance-wise the E17 should be compared to the iBasso D10. Well it is not better than the D10, but "within the range of vision". The E7 sounds too dry IMO. They all share the same DAC, but E17, E7 and D10 sound very different.
> 
> E7 = lean curd cheese
> 
> ...


 

 most compare the E series by FiiO to the D-Zero and D7..it's not fair to compare it to a product 75% more expensive


----------



## RAFA

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> most compare the E series by FiiO to the D-Zero and D7..it's not fair to compare it to a product 75% more expensive


 


  Aah ok, the D-Zero.
   
  I was just thinking SQ-wise, wasn't thinking about prize. Also having both at home, it was tempting to compare them. If you use a crappy combination of opamps in the D10, you can make the D10 sound worse than E17, hahahaha


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> OK this sounds helpful now. Here are the audio devices I see: SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) Speakrsr/headphones Communications headphones, Digital Audio (S/PDIF)
> Now, I tried manipulating E17 unplugged from the USB, with OPT input, the crackling sound persists still. "Configure" button does not work for any of these devices so I am not sure how to set things right. Someone mentioned Dolby Digital encode format does not work for E17 so I unmarked it, no positive result. I didn't use AUX input of course. Can anyone provide some kind of ... instruction to how I set it to spdif or optical?


 

 Speakers/Headphones will be your headphone out jack... analog out. This would go to the AUX on the E17 and the E17 input should be set to AUX.
   
  SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) would be the USB digital out... USB cable from your laptop to the mini-USB on the E17 and the E17 input should be set to USB.
   
  I THINK the Digital Audio (S/PDIF) would be the optical out from your laptop... you would use the optical out from your laptop which should be the headphone out if the jack is a dual type. You would have the mini-toslink to toslink/adapter you got from Micca from the headphone jack to the SPDIF IN input on the E17 (on top next to the headphone jack) and set the input to OPT.
  
  What I would do is concentrate on getting the digital USB working first. When you look at the control panel, which option has a green check next to it? (There SHOULD be a green check on the device that the laptop is currently using to output sound.) See if you can set it to the one that says FiiO and use the USB cable to the E17, which should be set to USB.
   
  EDIT: I just looked at the specs for your laptop. You have 2 line-out (analog) and a combined headphone/SPDIF jack, which will be your optical out. Also, you have different types of USB ports... for the E17 I would recommend the straight USB2 ports vs the USB2/USB3 combo or the eSata/USB combo.


----------



## lshalamb

Wow. me confused. 
  here is how it looks (screenshot)


   
  The other end of the cable indeed is RED when I plug the tosslink cable into my laptop's port. I use then adapter to connect the smaller end to my E17 into the port on top of the device. E17 is also connected via USB to my pc. headphones are in the Headphone jack (on top of the device). Now, if I disregard all the SPDIF input stuff, my E17 outpots sound via USB, if i choose for it to output sound via OPT, crackling begins. HERE's where it gets interesting: if I disable E17 in sound devices, the crackling sound in the headphones minimizes to a very small, background level. needless to say its still disturbing.
  I started digging further and here' s what I discovered:

  Turns out, if I set the format to 192000 Hz on either 16 bit or 24 bit, the sound gets all crackllin' and whoreish. I also did not notice any big difference between the two (s/pdif or USB). I would even say the sound is even clearer over usb?...
   
  ideas?
  Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Speakers/Headphones will be your headphone out jack... analog out. This would go to the AUX on the E17 and the E17 input should be set to AUX.
> 
> SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) would be the USB digital out... USB cable from your laptop to the mini-USB on the E17 and the E17 input should be set to USB.
> 
> ...


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Wow. me confused.
> ...
> 
> Turns out, if I set the format to 192000 Hz on either 16 bit or 24 bit, the sound gets all crackllin' and whoreish. I also did not notice any big difference between the two (s/pdif or USB). I would even say the sound is even clearer over usb?...
> ...


 


 As set, you should be getting sound via the USB input setting on the E17. Have you tried this without the optical cable?


----------



## bowei006

if S/PDIF is personaly causing you problems.. just use USB. yes audiophiliey it is "better" to use 192KHz but really unless you know exactly what you are doing, as in super tracks, some tube amps and great components there with some HD800's most won't hear 96KHz and 192KHz difference if at all


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> if S/PDIF is personaly causing you problems.. just use USB. yes audiophiliey it is "better" to use 192KHz but really unless you know exactly what you are doing, as in super tracks, some tube amps and great components there with some HD800's most won't hear 96KHz and 192KHz difference if at all


 

 He has a crackling problem we're working on atm... he mentioned the 192 as possibly contributing to the problem.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> He has a crackling problem we're working on atm... he mentioned the 192 as possibly contributing to the problem.


 
  Skimming doesn't get you everything  I'll leave it to you guys then. I wont necessarily "read read" the posts on S/PDIF so if anyone else has any specifc questions just put an @bowei006 IF they want to reach me


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Skimming doesn't get you everything  I'll leave it to you guys then. I wont necessarily "read read" the posts on S/PDIF so if anyone else has any specifc questions just put an @bowei006 IF they want to reach me


 

 Backup is always a good thing, your input is appreciated. (KNEW I'd caught you skimming! ) I think we're narrowing things down, and I'll definitely @ you if we get to the bottom of it and I can't find a solution.


----------



## lshalamb

Aight I see whats going on here  
  I DO appreciate all and any input you guys have in my questions, really, I do.
  yes, correct, the issue we are dealing with is crackling all over the place when S/PDIF jack is set to default and device set to output OPT via 24 or 16 bit and 192 000 Hz.
  USB connection works like charm, sound is great, no questions asked there.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Aight I see whats going on here
> I DO appreciate all and any input you guys have in my questions, really, I do.
> yes, correct, the issue we are dealing with is crackling all over the place when S/PDIF jack is set to default and device set to output OPT via 24 or 16 bit and 192 000 Hz.
> USB connection works like charm, sound is great, no questions asked there.


 

 Ah hah! So does the optical work with lower resolution and no crackling? or do you get crackling via optical no matter what, but it's just a lot worse at higher Hz?


----------



## lshalamb

you're reading it! holy smell.
  yea dats the prob. it works perfect @ 92 k hz. Still ... perfect defined by no crackling but sound is worse than usb i think.
  Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Ah hah! So does the optical work with lower resolution and no crackling? or do you get crackling via optical no matter what, but it's just a lot worse at higher Hz?


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> you're reading it! holy smell.
> yea dats the prob. it works perfect @ 92 k hz. Still ... perfect defined by no crackling but sound is worse than usb i think.


 

 Okay. Then to isolate where the problem lies, the next step would be to compare with another laptop or optical out source. If USB on another laptop sounds about the same as the optical, then your Alienware sounds like it may have something wrong with the optical out (may be just your laptop, may be all of them, I'd look online for reviews that mention the optical out.)
   
  If the USB sounds better than optical on other laptops (the more different laptops you can try the better) then there MIGHT be something wrong with the SPDIF input on your E17. I would see that as a last resort, but if USB sounds better on several different laptops, then that might be the case. The main reason I would doubt this is that the E17 uses the same DAC to decode the digital from either input. This is why USB and optical SHOULD sound much the same. (Laptops really don't generate a high enough quality source to hear the difference between 96k and 192k, like bowie said.)
  
  EDIT: especially since if I remember correctly, USB can only carry 48k?


----------



## bowei006

Did you update audio drivers? like i said a few pages back?


----------



## nsx280ps

Im thinking about waiting for the E17.... Or just stretch my budget and get the Matrix Mstage with the USB input.... does anyone have an mstage and can compare the E17?  Is it worth the extra $$?

 Thanks


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> especially since if I remember correctly, USB can only carry 48k?


 


  USB Audio Class 2 allows for 24/192 output but requires proprietary drivers while USB Audio Class 1 allows for driverless 24/96, which is what E17 supports.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





roller said:


> USB Audio Class 2 allows for 24/192 output but requires proprietary drivers while USB Audio Class 1 allows for driverless 24/96, which is what E17 supports.


 

 Ah, it was 96. (My computer will only do 48 on USB.)


----------



## RoadKam

@nsx280ps I'm curious - how do your K701s compare to your Ultrasones?


----------



## nsx280ps

I actually love them both, but they are very different..... The ultrasone has more bass and a lot more impact, but the soundstage on the K701 is so impressive, and also sound really detailed... I would say the Ultrasones are more fun, but the AKG is a lot more balanced while i think still have enough bass to be satisfying, and laid back enough where i can enjoy for hours without much fatigue.. the Ultrasone hits you hard but can get tiring quickly... I am using these with my Onkyo AV Amp SR606 for now until i get a proper amp/dac
   
  Quote: 





roadkam said:


> @nsx280ps I'm curious - how do your K701s compare to your Ultrasones?


----------



## Y2HBK

The E17 is my first DAC, and the far I have to say it has come in handy and I love it. 
   
  Quick question... when plugged in via USB and playing files - I thought you would be controlling the audio via the E17 only and bypassing the amp on the computer completely. Is it normal for me to be able to adjust the volume on the machine as well as the E17? Hope that makes sense.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





nsx280ps said:


> I actually love them both, but they are very different..... The ultrasone has more bass and a lot more impact, but the soundstage on the K701 is so impressive, and also sound really detailed... I would say the Ultrasones are more fun, but the AKG is a lot more balanced while i think still have enough bass to be satisfying, and laid back enough where i can enjoy for hours without much fatigue.. the Ultrasone hits you hard but can get tiring quickly... I am using these with my Onkyo AV Amp SR606 for now until i get a proper amp/dac


 

 From the descriptions of the Ultrasones I've read, that was about what I'd expected having heard K702s. But, I like to hear the opinions of those that actually have both to compare. I was thinking of maybe getting Ultrasones for gaming, but my K702s are actually starting to 'fill out' a bit as far as lower range. So Meh! (Maybe I can get a mic that can clip onto my 702s and EQ the bass a bit, then they can be a gaming set... 
  
  Thanx for the info.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> The E17 is my first DAC, and the far I have to say it has come in handy and I love it.
> 
> Quick question... when plugged in via USB and playing files - I thought you would be controlling the audio via the E17 only and bypassing the amp on the computer completely. Is it normal for me to be able to adjust the volume on the machine as well as the E17? Hope that makes sense.


 

 Yes, that's normal. Increasing or decreasing the volume will change the digital data, and the E17 DAC will read that as volume. I've heard that it's best to keep the volume on the laptop full and use the E17's volume control, but as I understand it that's so you get the best data 'signal.'


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





nsx280ps said:


> I actually love them both, but they are very different..... The ultrasone has more bass and a lot more impact, but the soundstage on the K701 is so impressive, and also sound really detailed... I would say the Ultrasones are more fun, but the AKG is a lot more balanced while i think still have enough bass to be satisfying, and laid back enough where i can enjoy for hours without much fatigue.. the Ultrasone hits you hard but can get tiring quickly... I am using these with my Onkyo AV Amp SR606 for now until i get a proper amp/dac


 
  Thanks for teh answer, it makes me feel a lot better and keep the upgradeitis bug at bay. i have the bassier HFI 580's, i got it on purpose. in audio, higher number in same series doesn't always mean better 
  
   


  Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> The E17 is my first DAC, and the far I have to say it has come in handy and I love it.
> 
> Quick question... when plugged in via USB and playing files - I thought you would be controlling the audio via the E17 only and bypassing the amp on the computer completely. Is it normal for me to be able to adjust the volume on the machine as well as the E17? Hope that makes sense.


 

 Yes it is normal, iTunes and programs and things that change volume that way don't use your computer's amp.


----------



## nsx280ps

How is your K702 while driven by the E17?  Do you think there is plenty of power to spare or just adequate?
  
  Quote: 





roadkam said:


> From the descriptions of the Ultrasones I've read, that was about what I'd expected having heard K702s. But, I like to hear the opinions of those that actually have both to compare. I was thinking of maybe getting Ultrasones for gaming, but my K702s are actually starting to 'fill out' a bit as far as lower range. So Meh! (Maybe I can get a mic that can clip onto my 702s and EQ the bass a bit, then they can be a gaming set...
> 
> Thanx for the info.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





nsx280ps said:


> How is your K702 while driven by the E17?  Do you think there is plenty of power to spare or just adequate?


 

 Plenty of power. If I put the E17 on 12db gain they lose a bit of separation - 6db makes them sound excellent. (0db makes them sound a bit weak.) As my K702s burn in, (got them Saturday morning) they seem to fill out a bit. I'm currently watching the Star Wars blu-rays, and the bass is full... explostions boom, the Imperial March sounds fabulous, with lows and highs sounding against each other just as intended.


----------



## SoundDreamer

lshalamb,
   
  I wonder if your setting on the usb output isn't interfering with the optical output. Are you setting your SPDIF setting to 24/96, your Digital Audio (S/PDIF) to 24/192 with Digital Audio (S/PDIF) as the default player when using optical out?


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Okay. Then to isolate where the problem lies, the next step would be to compare with another laptop or optical out source. If USB on another laptop sounds about the same as the optical, then your Alienware sounds like it may have something wrong with the optical out (may be just your laptop, may be all of them, I'd look online for reviews that mention the optical out.)
> 
> If the USB sounds better than optical on other laptops (the more different laptops you can try the better) then there MIGHT be something wrong with the SPDIF input on your E17. I would see that as a last resort, but if USB sounds better on several different laptops, then that might be the case. The main reason I would doubt this is that the E17 uses the same DAC to decode the digital from either input. This is why USB and optical SHOULD sound much the same. (Laptops really don't generate a high enough quality source to hear the difference between 96k and 192k, like bowie said.)


 


  The jittered USB audio stream is different than the jittered SPDIF audio stream.
  And inside the E17, at least the module decoding the incoming SPDIF signals is not the same module that handles the incoming USB audio stream.
  Different stuff, different quality.


----------



## ClieOS

danba said:


> The jittered USB audio stream is different than the jittered SPDIF audio stream.
> And inside the E17, at least the module decoding the incoming SPDIF signals is not the same module that handles the incoming USB audio stream.
> Different stuff, different quality.




I don't know what you guys are discussing, but here is how E17 works:

USB-in -> TE7022 (USB receiver and transcode to SPDIF) -> Wolfson SPDIF transceiver -> Wolfson DAC -> amp section and line out

SPDIF-in (opt or cox) -> Wolfson SPDIF transceiver -> Wolfson DAC -> amp section and line out

AUX-in -> amp section

So basically all the digital audio stream inside E17 is handled as SPDIF signal between the input and the SPDIF transceiver. The USB input is transcoded to SPDIF signal on the USB receiver chip and that is one of the big reason why E17 doesn't have the tiny gap issue like the E10 (which is probably caused by an clock or sync issue on the TE7022 and is isolated by the Wolfson SPDIF transceiver on E17).

That being said, if you find distortion on SPDIF-in but not USB-in, then it is highly likely it is an issue withe the SPDIF source. If it is the problem on the SPDIF transceiver, distortion will appear on USB-in as well since it is the same chip that does the SPDIF decoding. My guess is on the SPDIF driver or setting on the PC that has the problem.

Also, I saw some discussion a few page earlier but it is worth noting E17 only does stereo channels and no Dolby digital at all.


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





clieos said:


> ...





> So basically all the digital audio stream inside E17 is handled as SPDIF signal between the input and the SPDIF transceiver. The USB input is transcoded to SPDIF signal on the USB receiver chip and that is one of the big reason why E17 doesn't have the tiny gap issue like the E10 (which is probably caused by an clock or sync issue on the TE7022 and is isolated by the Wolfson SPDIF transceiver on E17).
> That being said, if you find distortion on SPDIF-in but not USB-in, then it is highly likely it is an issue withe the SPDIF source. If it is the problem on the SPDIF transceiver, distortion will appear on USB-in as well since it is the same chip that does the SPDIF decoding. My guess is on the SPDIF driver or setting on the PC that has the problem.
> Also, I saw some discussion a few page earlier but it is worth noting E17 only does stereo channels and no Dolby digital at all.


 

 Thanx, ClieOS - that's pretty much how I thought it was happening. I didn't figure FiiO would put in two seperate decode paths, and why I thought it was very unlikely that the E17 was the problem.   And looking at your description, if there WERE going to be a problem with one input and not the other, the transcoder on the USB would have to be the culprit which would make the USB sound worse, not the optical.
   
  I used to be on an internal IBM helpdesk, and I think I tend to troubleshoot too  much.


----------



## gEaK

Email update from advancedmp3players: expected stock arrival now pushed back from 29th of Feb to 16th of March.
   
  Again I'm left wondering where these dates keep coming from.
   
  Either Fiio are giving them to the retailers and keep delaying (In which case I wish they would simply stop giving out dates until the units are 100% ready as it's incredibly frustrating)
   
  Or the retailers are making them up to entice/appease customers (possible but seems unlikely to me personally)
   
*Feiao *I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this if you're still with us.
   
  I realise this is probably getting boring to those of you who have already received their units. However, I've now been waiting over 2 months whilst 2 different retailers have my money and all I'm getting in return are unreliable dates that keep getting pushed back, I'm beginning to find it difficult to express my anger while remaining civil. I apologise to anyone who feels I'm clogging up the thread but I'm just seeking some reassurance as contacting the retailers/Fiio directly has proved to be of no help to me whatsoever.


----------



## Etrips

Quote: 





geak said:


> Email update from advancedmp3players: expected stock arrival now pushed back from 29th of Feb to 16th of March.
> 
> *Feiao *I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this if you're still with us.
> 
> I realise this is probably getting boring to those of you who have already received their units. However, I've now been waiting over 2 months whilst 2 different retailers have my money and all I'm getting in return are unreliable dates that keep getting pushed back, I'm beginning to find it difficult to express my anger while remaining civil. I apologise to anyone who feels I'm clogging up the thread but I'm just seeking some reassurance as contacting the retailers/Fiio directly has proved to be of no help to me whatsoever.


 

 You and me both buddy. Sadly I think I'm going to start looking for an alternative.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





etrips said:


> You and me both buddy. Sadly I think I'm going to start looking for an alternative.


 

 I'd highly recommend that you wait until the next release date. It will go by real fast. It seems like the X-mas holiday was just yesterday. Believe me, it'll be worth the wait.


----------



## gEaK

Well, I saw Amazon UK had received a few units back in stock earlier and after thinking about how tired I was of waiting I decided to pay the extra £40.
   
  I feel this is my only option.
   
  I'm cancelling my advancedmp3players order, and I'm going to wait until I receive my mp4nation order and then return the Amazon one for a refund to get my £40 back.
   
  I've watched the stock count on the Amazon item page go from 8 down to 5, and then to 4 after I placed my order.
   
  I honestly don't know why the other websites in question can't operate this way, it makes everything so much simpler.


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I don't know what you guys are discussing, but here is how E17 works:
> USB-in -> TE7022 (USB receiver and transcode to SPDIF) -> Wolfson SPDIF transceiver -> Wolfson DAC -> amp section and line out
> SPDIF-in (opt or cox) -> Wolfson SPDIF transceiver -> Wolfson DAC -> amp section and line out
> AUX-in -> amp section


 



 Quote: 





roadkam said:


> Thanx, ClieOS - that's pretty much how I thought it was happening. I didn't figure FiiO would put in two seperate decode paths


 
   
  I still see two different paths, therefore two different SQ.
   
  USB path:
  Music file > player > jittered I2S (PCM) > USB transmitter >> USB bus > jittered’ USB (PCM) > USB bus >> USB receiver > USB decoder > jittered’’ I2S (PCM) > Wolfson SPDIF transceiver (jitter attenuator): jittered’’’ SPDIF (PCM) > jittered’’’’ I2S (PCM) > Wolfson DAC
   
  SPDIF path:
  Same music file > same player > same jittered I2S (PCM) > SPDIF transmitter >> SPDIF cable > different jittered’ USB (PCM) > SPDIF cable >> same Wolfson SPDIF transceiver (jitter attenuator): different jittered’’ SPDIF (PCM) > different jittered’’’ I2S (PCM) > same Wolfson DAC
   
   
  "Hi mike, do you notice any difference between the toslink and USB input?"
   
  "As for the toslink and USB question, the USB is better no doubt, while the toslink is slightly better balanced than coaxial. But this may be due to the quality of the transport I use for the toslink and coax (I use an Onkyo ND-S1 Ipod dock) and the USB is via a MacBook Air.
   
  USB has clearly more air, bigger soundstage, better ambiance and overall tonal balance is very good. Toslink and coax are more congested in comparison, lacking ambiance details."
http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/


----------



## RoadKam

Quote: 





danba said:


> I still see two different paths, therefore two different SQ.
> ...


 


 Sorry, don't feel like arguing with you.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

trying to cancel my order on MP4nation, placed on jan 12th, I just lost interest, specially since I didnt got into the mid feb batch and was moved to the waiting list for mid march...


----------



## ObeyurMaster

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> trying to cancel my order on MP4nation, placed on jan 12th, I just lost interest, specially since I didnt got into the mid feb batch and was moved to the waiting list for mid march...


 

 I'm glad I didn't pre-order on mp4nation.....I almost placed my order for the second batch. I went till the payment screen but backed out just in time. I then came across Micca store's twitter updates, waited for a week and grabbed the E17.


----------



## ClieOS

danba said:


> I still see two different paths, therefore two different SQ.
> ...




Two paths, yes; Two different SQ, questionable. That's a big assumption on whether jitter is bad enough to be audible or not.




danba said:


> ...
> "As for the toslink and USB question, the USB is better no doubt, while the toslink is slightly better balanced than coaxial. *But this may be due to the quality of the transport I use for the toslink and coax (I use an Onkyo ND-S1 Ipod dock) and the USB is via a MacBook Air.*
> ...



Hmm...


----------



## DanBa

So, what is/are the cause(s) of these differences of SQ ("[size=8pt]the USB is better no doubt, while the toslink is slightly better balanced than coaxial")?[/size]


----------



## ClieOS

Can't say I know. But certainly comparing on two different sources really isn't an ideal way for A/Bing, right? I would think eliminating or at least minimizing other unnecessary variables is the key to a better comparison.


----------



## Arboginge911

A couple of dumb questions, don't judge me haha
  Would this be enough to successfully run Grado sr325i's out of? Or would I need something more powerful for that?
  And, what are the connections with this? Like, does it take a USB port, or a 1/4th in. or 1/8? Basically, can I plug the 1/4th inch plug of the 325's directly into the amp?
  Thanks so much for your help!


----------



## ObeyurMaster

Quote: 





arboginge911 said:


> A couple of dumb questions, don't judge me haha
> Would this be enough to successfully run Grado sr325i's out of? Or would I need something more powerful for that?
> And, what are the connections with this? Like, does it take a USB port, or a 1/4th in. or 1/8? Basically, can I plug the 1/4th inch plug of the 325's directly into the amp?
> Thanks so much for your help!


 


  I'm using my SR325is from the E17. Power wise, It drives the 325 very well since they are low impedance + high sensitivity cans. I think they sound real good, but then I don't have any experience with a high end amp...
   
  You would need a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter to plug the 325s into the E17.


----------



## ClieOS

clieos said:


> Can't say I know. But certainly comparing on two different sources really isn't an ideal way for A/Bing, right? I would think eliminating or at least minimizing other unnecessary variables is the key to a better comparison.




Okay, I just setup my PC to have the optical out activated so I can test both the USB-in and opt-in on E17 with the same PC. At first, it seems USB-in does sound grander than opt-in, but I soon to notice there is a slight volume difference between the two. Further investigation with my newly acquired SPL meter reveals that the USB-in's volume is about 3dB higher than the opt-in.Once I volume matched both, I can't say I really prefer one to the other. Just show you even a little volume difference can play trick to the listener's ears.


----------



## AppleDappleman

When using the lod for the iPod, is the E17 going to be using the DAC or amp?


----------



## xxhaxx

Just the amp


----------



## Dual1ty

What battery does the E17 use?


----------



## ClieOS

dual1ty said:


> What battery does the E17 use?




1500mAH rechargeable Li-ion. Not user replaceable unless you can find Li-ion of similar size and has some soldering skill.


----------



## weitn

I received the L7 today. Plug it into the dock connector on the bottom E17. At one end of of the L7, I plug in the USB cable to the Mini-B input and at the other end I connect it to Lyr using a 3.5mm Male to 2 RCA stereo audio cable. Laptop (usb) -> E17+L7 -> Lyr -> HD650.
   
  When I turn on the LO Bypass (push to lower position) on the E17, the DAC works great. HD650 sounds awesome (love the punchy solid bass, clear/details mid and treble) with E17+Lyr combination. With this setting, the 3.5mm output on the E17 still works. All the functionalities like changing the volume, treble, bass and balance still works. Meaning that another person could listen to the same song using the 3.5mm output on E17 and could adjust the volume, treble, bass, balance and gain without affecting my listening. Great feature.
   
  The L7 still works when the LO Bypass switch is turned off (push to upper position). Changing the volume, treble, bass, balance and gain on the E17 also affect the output of L7 (amp is used). With this setting, L7 can be use as an additional 3.5mm output. In this case, the output from L7 should not be connected to another amplifier as it considered double amping. Correct me if I am wrong.
   
  This makes me wonder, if SPDIF input is used on E17 with L7 connected, will the L7 can still be use as an additional 3.5mm output?


----------



## ClieOS

weitn said:


> This makes me wonder, if SPDIF input is used on E17 with L7 connected, will the L7 can still be use as an additional 3.5mm output?




Sure. Line-out as well as headphone-out work with all digital input.


----------



## bowei006

@weitn this is exactly what i wanna do in the future. Other users have had a hard time telling apart and justifiying half thousand or more dedicated dACs so i just wanna use the e17 as one with l7. Fo u have exp with other dacs.? Comparisson?


----------



## kalbee

Hmm... When I connect the L9 to my iPhone I occasionally hear some crackling noise... You know, the same ones you hear when your radio gets bad signals.
Anyone has experience with this? I was wondering maybe it's caused by my phone's wifi...? It's pretty annoying especially when wearing IEMs. It occurs sometimes even when wifi is off.


----------



## prospect ultra

For those with the E17, check your lcd screens, is it perfectly level in the cutout of the case? Or is one side higher or lower than the other side? Noticed mine was a bit off, not a big deal, but annoying since I noticed it now.


----------



## kalbee

Mine is pretty leveled, though I got a smudge of the glue they used stuck on my - button. Can't get rid of it completely; it smeared all over the right side of the screen.


----------



## prospect ultra

but removed or not?
   
  are you gonna swap it?


----------



## kalbee

They're keepers. I don't feel it a bit enough issue. I'm sure if I rub it long enough it'll all be gone.
  Besides I like my SN! 999


----------



## bowei006

They will have shipped 6K E17 units alone in a few months. ...wow. it kinda shows how far spread audiophilia is these days


----------



## the_dong146

So tempted... Looking forward to more comparisons between this and the Audinst HUD-MX1.  Sounds like I have some time to make a decision at least...
   
  Just concerned about driving the HD580s w/ this


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 1: yes. you would need to use the FiiO L7 to bypass teh E17's amp and use as a DAC. the FiiO L7 also works with the E7. Make sure to use the LO bypass switch on the E17.


 


  Now i'm ultimately confused, you must switch LO bypass to use the E17 as a DAC? Even if its just PC->optical cable->Headphones?
 Or is that only when you're using the L7?

*****Just did more research, I guess its only when you're docking it.******

 I wish they made this clear in the instructions.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @weitn this is exactly what i wanna do in the future. Other users have had a hard time telling apart and justifiying half thousand or more dedicated dACs so i just wanna use the e17 as one with l7. Fo u have exp with other dacs.? Comparisson?


 

 Sorry. I never own any other DAC. Thus, can't do any comparison.
   
  For now, E17 is good enough for me. I listened to Pop, soul, reggae fusion, R&B and dance most of the time. I think is hard to tell the difference with these type of genre compare to classical or ochestra. Even if I could tell the difference, most probably the difference won't be significant. Thus, it is hard to justify spending few hundreds for another DAC when I already have the E17.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





the_dong146 said:


> So tempted... Looking forward to more comparisons between this and the Audinst HUD-MX1.  Sounds like I have some time to make a decision at least...
> 
> Just concerned about driving the HD580s w/ this


 
  Just a snippet from headfonia
   
   
 E17 VERSUS AUDINST HUD MX1  Tonally they are a bit similar with their dark and warm sound signature. Technically the E17 is very good, but the Audinst is still better, though the difference is now closer than it was compared to the E10. The Audinst has been a long time favorite of mine, due to its simple design, affordable price, and overall good sound quality. However, this time the E17 again shines due to the way it does midrange: full, clear and sweet (don’t we all love full, clear and sweet sounding midrange?). The Audinst’s midrange is not as bad as the E7 and the E9 (or both of them combined), but it’s still not as good as the E17 or the E10′s midrange.


----------



## JamesFiiO

One interesting question, 
   
SONY's D50 is very popular in Chinese market and regarded as one of the best portable audio device. but it seems that it is not popular in head-fi. 
   
But D50 does supports 96k/24bit WAV and support digital output through optical output.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> One interesting question,
> 
> SONY's D50 is very popular in Chinese market and regarded as one of the best portable audio device. but it seems that it is not popular in head-fi.
> 
> But D50 does supports 96k/24bit WAV and support digital output through optical output.


 

 Digital out? Why was I not informed of this earlier?


----------



## JamesFiiO

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665760564#specifications
   
  Listed on the specifications:
   
  Line Output (Optical) : Output imped: 220 ohms, Load imped: 22 k ohm. Digital = Output level: -21dBm to -15 dBm
   
   
  The only question is PCM-D50 is not longer available in US, but it is available in China, also SONY China promoted it as a portable music player in 2011 because they found so many 
   
  chinese people buy it for music but not for record, LOL.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665760564#specifications
> 
> Listed on the specifications:
> 
> ...


 

 $479 and accepts 32GB MicroSD? Cool.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665760564#specifications
> 
> Listed on the specifications:
> 
> ...


 


  Interesting! But I guess it's quite expensive...
  Still looking for some portable digital source.
   
  Also, my laptop's fan is so noisy...my open cans can't block that annoying sound from it


----------



## AtlantasRealtor

Can anyone tell me if an IEEE1394 port or "firewire" cable can be used with the line in adapter to supply a 24/192 signal to the E17?

I already have an E7/E9 combo and want to upgrade; but my Dell Latitude does not have an optical or SPDIF port.

Thanks for any help.

Mike


----------



## ClieOS

atlantasrealtor said:


> Can anyone tell me if an IEEE1394 port or "firewire" cable can be used with the line in adapter to supply a 24/192 signal to the E17?



No.


----------



## kalbee

duyu said:


> Interesting! But I guess it's quite expensive...
> Still looking for some portable digital source.
> 
> Also, my laptop's fan is so noisy...my open cans can't block that annoying sound from it




Looks like its time for you to open it up and clean the ductwork!


----------



## Rango

@ClieOS is E17 is sufficient for Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250 ohm ?


----------



## happy2000hk

i get that too, wonder if it's because my iphone has no reception in my building so it was on Edge.  it sounds just like those speakers from the old days that are not magnetically shielded.
  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Hmm... When I connect the L9 to my iPhone I occasionally hear some crackling noise... You know, the same ones you hear when your radio gets bad signals.
> Anyone has experience with this? I was wondering maybe it's caused by my phone's wifi...? It's pretty annoying especially when wearing IEMs. It occurs sometimes even when wifi is off.


----------



## ClieOS

rango said:


> @ClieOS is E17 is sufficient for Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250 ohm ?




I really don't know. I don't have any full size that are that high in impedance. However, I'll venture a guess to say it should be sufficient, but how good it is going to be is another question of its own.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





rango said:


> @ClieOS is E17 is sufficient for Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250 ohm ?


 

 I have Beyer DT770 Pro 250 ohm and someone else mentioned the DT880 250 ohm cans. Both work fine with the E17, but you may find that you have to use the E17 set to 12dB gain and volume levels of 30 - 50. I find it works very well with my DT770s, but the signature of the DT990 is different so it's not a true 1 to 1 comparison. Because everyone's hearing and brain is a little different, only you can judge if the E17 will drive them to meet your listening needs.
   
  BTW - to anyone using the E17 as a DAC (USB, optical or coaxial SPDIF) - your source really plays an important part in this. The difference between poorly encoded MP3s and properly ripped lossless is outstanding. If you aren't noticing a decent improvement in your setup, make sure you investigate high quality sources.


----------



## hyogen

i...can't...quit....you......guys  :|  
   
  i'm trying to.
   
   
   
   
  update for me is i've decided against the E17 for now...b/c I don't listen to music with computer much.  might get an E11 (since it's the better AMPLIFIER for being more refined AND more power).  
   
  I bought a used Trends PA-10 tube amp locally... With no music on, or with music on at a low volume I hear a hiss sound in just the left ear....what could this be?   It's not my source, or source cable.  It adds just a little more amplification to the setup I already had.  Might sell it and pick up a Little Dot MKIII 
   
  I'm so happy with how my android Samsung Nexus S is performing.  Is even making my old Ultimate Ear 200 SINNG........it's quite unreal what the Wolfson DAC + Voodoo sound does..............


----------



## ClieOS

Tube gears are usually nosier than solid state stuff, so a tiny big of hiss should be normal. But an uneven hiss on one channel could indicate problem or deterioration of the tubes. You will have to roll tube to be sure.


----------



## hyogen

forgive my ignorance..what does it mean to roll the tube?  replace it?  lol.  thank you.
   
  I was able to pull the tube out.  The noise/hiss/crackling sound went away completely.   Does this mean that I likely have a bad tube?  
   
  thank you
   
  FYI i think it reads 12AU7A/ECC82 GT. BRITAIN


----------



## ClieOS

hyogen said:


> forgive my ignorance..what does it mean to roll the tube?  replace it?  lol.  thank you




Tube rolling means you try out a few more tubes. We call it that way because when you swap tube, they are often rolling around the table. Though sold state opamp doesn't roll on the table, we still call swapping them 'opamp rolling' as well.


----------



## hyogen

ah, thanks.  this is the tube I have.  Like I said above, when i pulled it, the hiss/fuzz/light crackling sound went away.  that's probably a good sign, right?  just need to replace tube?   
   
  In fact, after I plug it in, there is no sound even when I turn it on.  It takes a minute or so for it to warm up and make that sound in the left ear...
   
http://tctubes.com/mullard-12au7-ecc82-iec.aspx is what it has in there.  I


----------



## ClieOS

As long as it is not the vintage (NOS) stuff, normal 12AU7 isn't that expensive (i.e.JJ Electronic, Tung-Sol, etc). But they do different in sound quality.


----------



## autoexec

really dont know where to ask this but I guess better here than in a new thread.. can the E17 make big sound improvement on the DT1350? my source would be a J3, Nationite N2, or a dell inspiron laptop.. i also have mx980s which i would love to try with this.. this would be my first time buying an amp/dac... thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

I know as far as synergy is concerned, E17 should work quite well with DT1350. But I never do have the chance to pair them together as I have yet to get myself a pair. Only listened to it once in a store, but it is a headphone I really like.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





rango said:


> @ClieOS is E17 is sufficient for Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250 ohm ?


 
   
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> I really don't know. I don't have any full size that are that high in impedance. However, I'll venture a guess to say it should be sufficient, but how good it is going to be is another question of its own.


 

 I would have to say that it depends on how loud you listen. I have 150 ohm headphones (Sennheiser 545) and have the gain set at 0 db. Depending on my source, I have the volume set between 27 and 40 (60 is max setting). Now, if you're hearing impaired, that's another story.


----------



## kalbee

@hyogen
Your cat looks like its enjoying the music very much!


Well I find 150ohm to still be a long stretch from 250ohm. Also depends on sensitivity. I can certainly drive a Yamaha ortho though. Don't think the e17 does enough justice to ortho though. I guess those do prefer tube or vintage.


----------



## lshalamb

I don't understand... tech specs say it can hold up to 300 ohms, in reality my HD600s are well-driven and I love the sound (not to say that it couldn't be better).
  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> @hyogen
> Your cat looks like its enjoying the music very much!
> Well I find 150ohm to still be a long stretch from 250ohm. Also depends on sensitivity. I can certainly drive a Yamaha ortho though. Don't think the e17 does enough justice to ortho though. I guess those do prefer tube or vintage.


----------



## bowei006

the tech specs just mean Ohms it "supports" headphones that are below or above the impendance range "technically" will have some limitations. go read nwavguys blog on this stuff. i can't explain it well. impendance doesn't mean direvability, it's a good sign..generally but not for all headphones, impendance PLUS sensitivity will give you a more even exact range of just how driveable it is. but that is also fooling sometimes(Sony V6 ) reviews and asking people that have them with what you want to do like you guys are right now is the only way to fully know


----------



## kalbee

Yep. In a nutshell, you get VAGUELY
  Input voltage from e17 --impedance--> resulting # of mW, which is inversely proportional to impedance
  # of mW --sensitivity--> output volume in dB
   
  So you can have super low impedance headphones with also super low sensitivity and you probably won't be able to drive it.
   
  Then there's this whole thing about an amp's driving potential not being -just- the volume you can achieve. No idea how to explain that, I don't understand it either.
  For my Yamaha's it probably is just that they'd sound better on a slightly coloured source or something. I'd still say they sound great through the e17 but with reservation.
  Though my brother is now convinced he rather just get a e7 than a e17... one reason being he prefers the way the e7 looks lol.


----------



## lshalamb

Alright, I'm noob and you got me. All my point was: I am satisfied with how it works with my stuff,for $140 its more than acceptable.
   
  ANyhow... I made a discovery that finally has set me back in terms of challenging my music tastes and my wallet 
   
  This is how I do it:
  S/PDIF/optical on my laptop > Maverick Audio D1 headphone jack>  E17 AUX > headphones via headphone jack
   
  Pros:
  E17 EQ settings work
  Bass came back 
   
  Cons: 
  Clarity is a bit faded
   
  ^ a bright idea?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lshalamb said:


> Alright, I'm noob and you got me. All my point was: I am satisfied with how it works with my stuff,for $140 its more than acceptable.
> 
> ANyhow... I made a discovery that finally has set me back in terms of challenging my music tastes and my wallet
> 
> ...


 
  ? i thought the D1 would be better in terms of amp than E17 :/ whatever, the E17 is high quality so dual amping..(or triple..or whatever the number of amps in the D1 plus the two in the E17) shouldn't matter to  much but like you said, clarity is usually faded from my experiments
   
  so why D1?
   
  a bright idea? hahah do you mean that it's brighter as you can EQ the vocals? i thought that as a funny pun


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Sorry. I never own any other DAC. Thus, can't do any comparison.
> 
> For now, E17 is good enough for me. I listened to Pop, soul, reggae fusion, R&B and dance most of the time. I think is hard to tell the difference with these type of genre compare to classical or ochestra. Even if I could tell the difference, most probably the difference won't be significant. Thus, it is hard to justify spending few hundreds for another DAC when I already have the E17.


 

 All these talking about DAC makes me wanting to learn more about DAC. Found this in the forum below. Looks like E7 (I read somewhere that E17 has the same DAC - correct me if I am wrong) is doing good compared to other DAC listed below.
  
_Originally Posted by M-13:
 Yeah... I had the MS+, DACport LX, and even borrowed my friend's Nuforce HDP, and none of those DACs had a noticeable improvement over my E7, which was dissapointing to say the least. There were differences of course, but I could not say one was better than the other, just different. I'm hoping the Bifrost will be a clear and obvious upgrade. So far, upgrading amps, tubes, headphones have been the more obvious "upgrade"_

  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/1545


----------



## lshalamb

HM so why D1? Simply to put it, I was looking for something desktop-size, but didn't want to spend more than $200... ended up with $220 D1, as it had some very good reviews. Why did I hook it up with E17? problem is I own HD600s.... they are just terrible with bass (and I mean WOW they have no bass). To be honest, D1 is an exceptional dac/amp, but there are no options of controlling bass/treble. My goal doing this setup was to utilize D1's DAC component, Amp + preAmp, and let this all go through 6db gain on E17 (bass enhancement was my #1 priority). 
  if it wasn't for my cans to lack bass, I probably would avoid using E17. I love the clarity D1 gives, but I just dont get any pumping (which annoys me as hell)
  E17 is a really good thing though. I can barely tell difference between D1 and E17, abeit, of course, there is a gap.
   
  If someone will attempt anything like this:
  With E17 being put through something like D1, *enable direct volume control through it*, otherwise connecting external devices will mess with sound level. 
   
  Currently though I am looking for portable headphones (not full-size cans) for on-the-go. Mostly to be used in airplanes/bus trips. Any good ideas? will be paired with E17 (I am aware that only AMP will work with most players) so I guess I am looking for something good sounding, bassy, as clear as possible, good detail (again, not in expense of bass) and I guess they have to be noise-canceling both ways (external/internal), at least a lil bit.
  Any ideas what could fit? 
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ? i thought the D1 would be better in terms of amp than E17 :/ whatever, the E17 is high quality so dual amping..(or triple..or whatever the number of amps in the D1 plus the two in the E17) shouldn't matter to  much but like you said, clarity is usually faded from my experiments
> 
> so why D1?
> 
> a bright idea? hahah do you mean that it's brighter as you can EQ the vocals? i thought that as a funny pun


----------



## happy2000hk

I have a macbook pro, E17, L7, and Audioengine A2 Active Speakers.  I really love the sound coming out of the A2's a lot more when I go just use the E17's headphone output, instead of using the L7 to bypass the E17 amp.  However, I read that it would be better to use the L7 because the A2 already has a built-in amp, and you do not want to dual amp.  What would be the best way for me to get the best sound using powered speakers setup?


----------



## kalbee

If you find it better out of the headphone out, I don't see why not! well, as long as nothing gets damaged.


----------



## bowei006

HD25II's or it's new updates the Sennheiser Amperior. then there are also the Beyer DT1350. ask around, you may have some users in this thread that have these and know how they do
   
  @happy200k
   
  if we only consider you having a MBP,E17 and L7 than what you desribed. using your computer as a source, with optical into the E17. and then bypassing internal amp with L7 and then into A2


----------



## happy2000hk

Thanks, will do that.  I don't have a separate standalone amp.
  Quote: 





> @happy2000hk
> 
> if we only consider you having a MBP,E17 and L7 than what you desribed. using your computer as a source, with optical into the E17. and then bypassing internal amp with L7 and then into A2


----------



## lshalamb

Wow, not cheap stuff  but thanks for the input. I will definitely consider sennheisers I think. I don't really like the doubled thing though.
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> HD25II's or it's new updates the Sennheiser Amperior. then there are also the Beyer DT1350. ask around, you may have some users in this thread that have these and know how they do
> 
> @happy200k
> 
> if we only consider you having a MBP,E17 and L7 than what you desribed. using your computer as a source, with optical into the E17. and then bypassing internal amp with L7 and then into A2


----------



## mac336

Any official release date.  All I've read is "this quarter"  Any ideas?


----------



## bowei006

yeah it aint cheap....sadly there are some used pairs..but these are very popular portable ones i know off the top of my head.
   
  i think i remember some user or clieos himself saying dT1350 rocked with E17..not sure :/ 
   
  @mac336
  the release date was about...2 months ago. sale date was about 1 month ago. mass availbility date is about late march to early april...if demand is as strong as some think..possibly later...but im betting on late march.


----------



## duesentrieb

Would be interesting to understand whether the E17 is also limited to play 24/88 on USB, eventually using a different data flow scheme compared to the E10, where the TE7022 seems to be the limiting factor? Could be that the E10 uses USB to I2S Output? and the E17 USB to SPDIF TX...but anyway the Tenor data sheet says: 8/16/32/44.1/48/96 KHz sampling rates supported...without making a difference between modes...


----------



## ClieOS

duesentrieb said:


> Would be interesting to understand whether the E17 is also limited to play 24/88 on USB, eventually using a different data flow scheme compared to the E10, where the TE7022 seems to be the limiting factor? Could be that the E10 uses USB to I2S Output? and the E17 USB to SPDIF TX...but anyway the Tenor data sheet says: 8/16/32/44.1/48/96 KHz sampling rates supported...without making a difference between modes...




It doesn't matter what data flow it uses. It the chip doesn't support 88Hz sampling, that will be the end of that story. - and I assume TE7022 be just like that. If it is supported, you would have seen it listed in spec.


----------



## ebmp19

If anyone was wondering - The e17 is fully supported on the windows 8 consumer preview. Probably slightly better than windows 7 even because it's faster at fetching drivers.


----------



## ebmp19

Quote: 





ebmp19 said:


> If anyone was wondering - The e17 is fully supported on the windows 8 consumer preview. Probably slightly better than windows 7 even because it's faster at fetching drivers.


 


  Oh and I forgot to say - it automatically sets it to the default device as well  Windows 7 doesn't


----------



## kalbee

Good to know, ebmp19!
   
  On the other hand, windows 7 automatically switches to e17 every time I plug it in, including the first time.
  It didn't do that on my brother's computer though, and he likes to keep his updates up to date (while I keep it off).


----------



## tim3320070

retracted


----------



## shorke

Would this sound better than a high end sound card from 2007? The HT Omega Claro Plus. From that big wave of CMI8788 cards, I think it has the same DAC as the Auzentech Prelude except a slight step up. Basically, am I going to hear that much of a difference between these DACs or any other of these other external DACs for the price? I also play computer games so that is one worry, should I be looking at the new CMI chip cards like the Asus Phoebus, or the ST/STX instead then?


----------



## mac336

anyone know the best site to order the Fiio alpen from?


----------



## AgentXXL

mac336 said:


> anyone know the best site to order the Fiio alpen from?


Best bet is to order from an authorized dealer in your area of the world. Here's the link from Fiio's website listing their authorized dealers:

http://fiio.com.cn/where/index.aspx

Most (if not all) dealers are currently out of stock but the 2nd production batch of about 5000 units should be available near the end of March, assuming there are no delays in production.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## gohanssjn

FINALLY got a securing option I like for an iPod Touch.  Got some Heavy Duty Fasteners (like Velcro but all plastic, no fiber side).  Cut the back out of some cases and we get:
   

   
  And hopefully if I want to remove the fasteners in the future some heat will do the trick since both are just on metal


----------



## gohanssjn

Also, being directly up against the iPod Touch 2G was giving me some pops the other night with Wifi on (I was streaming, lol).  Switched on Airplane mode and it all went away


----------



## jono454

Hey, back on this thread i have a question regarding the e17 and the L7.
   
  I've been using the e9 + e17 combo together and i recently acquired a Hifiman EF-5 so i decided to use the E9 as a LOD. Turns out the LOD in my e9 is kinda faulty and the sound ends up being distorted and fuzzy. With this setup (computer-->e17 + e9 (DAC)-->Hifiman EF-5-->DT990)
   
  If instead of the RCA Line Out in the e9, i used the L7 as a LOD, would there be a considerable difference between the 2? If so, which would be the stronger one?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Hey, back on this thread i have a question regarding the e17 and the L7.
> 
> I've been using the e9 + e17 combo together and i recently acquired a Hifiman EF-5 so i decided to use the E9 as a LOD. Turns out the LOD in my e9 is kinda faulty and the sound ends up being distorted and fuzzy. With this setup (computer-->e17 + e9 (DAC)-->Hifiman EF-5-->DT990)
> 
> If instead of the RCA Line Out in the e9, i used the L7 as a LOD, would there be a considerable difference between the 2? If so, which would be the stronger one?


 


  i would say no as in both cases you are just bypassing the amp on the E17. some may even say the L7 may be better as there's shorter distance and less componnents.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> i would say no as in both cases you are just bypassing the amp on the E17. some may even say the L7 may be better as there's shorter distance and less componnents.


 


  Yea i'm trying to bypass the amp on the E17 but retain the DAC portion. I'm just not sure which one would be better RCA (E9) vs 3.5mm (L7). 
   
  Edit: this is what i've been able to deduct so far
   
  E9(amp) + e17(DAC) -->DT990 = sounds good
  E9(LOD) + e17(DAC)-->Hifiman EF-5 (amp) -->DT990 = sounds fuzzy distorted
  DVD player -->Hifiman EF-5-->DT990 = sounds good
   
  So my guess is either the E17 or E9 is not functioning properly?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Yea i'm trying to bypass the amp on the E17 but retain the DAC portion. I'm just not sure which one would be better RCA (E9) vs 3.5mm (L7).
> 
> Edit: this is what i've been able to deduct so far
> 
> ...


 

 probably the E9 may have some problem or theres something else that is wrong. if L7 works for you..wy not use that?


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> probably the E9 may have some problem or theres something else that is wrong. if L7 works for you..wy not use that?


 


  Forgive me if i say something stupid but wouldn't using a RCA connection be better than 3.5mm though?


----------



## kunuggs

Both are just different terminations of an analog stereo connection. 3.5 is just smaller and combined into one.


----------



## jono454

Thanks bowei006 and kunuggs =D. Save myself some money and pick up a L7 and some Monoprice cables.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I don't know if this has been covered before but I am having trouble driving my 600ohm Beyers on this unit. I know it's not really rated for this kind of load but my E10 drove them okay. The left channel drops out after a couple of minutes and does not return. If I switch to IEM's or easy to drive headphones, everything is fine. I changed the gain to max with no effect.
> I may have to sell this if it can't drive the Beyers I have.
> Anyone else have this issue?


 

 good to know.


----------



## jono454

Is this a possible combination without double amping
   
  Computer USB-->E17 (DAC only) + E9 (pre-out 3.5MM)-->use 3.5mm to RCA cable-->tube amp-->headphones


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Is this a possible combination without double amping
> 
> Computer USB-->E17 (DAC only) + E9 (pre-out 3.5MM)-->use 3.5mm to RCA cable-->tube amp-->headphones


 


  so..like the other person above,(read above) you want to use the E9 to Line out right? if so then yes, you will only be using your tube amps amp/s and nothing else but whatever is in your tube amp for amplication.(make sure you plug it into the right outputs)


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> so..like the other person above,(read above) you want to use the E9 to Line out right? if so then yes, you will only be using your tube amps amp/s and nothing else but whatever is in your tube amp for amplication.(make sure you plug it into the right outputs)


 


  Yep that's exactly what i was looking for..i was just kind of confused between the RCA line out and the 3.5mm pre out. Thanks for the clarification. I'm asking cause the RCA line out isn't working on my e9 so now i'm gonna try the 3.5mm pre out.


----------



## boonh

Great review!
   
  My question is: if I use E17 as DAC, does it also have amp function?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





boonh said:


> Great review!
> 
> My question is: if I use E17 as DAC, does it also have amp function?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 If you are asking whether it will amp the signal coming from the DAC section, then the answer is of course, Yes.


----------



## Bobby Steel

Since I have barely missed both times Miccastore has had stock recently and fell for AdvancedMP3Players in stock/out of stock scam I am in the pool of those anxiously waiting to get my hands on one later this month. To kill the time I guess I'll ask those fortunate owners a few questions that have been in the back of my mind.
   
  On the design vs the E7:

 Any one that has used both prefer the only style of having the buttons of the side of the device vs buttons on the face of the device? Has feiao explained why they made this change? It seems to me that this would be annoying when having the E17 banded to your DAP "back-to-back" to have to flip it on one side to control the play and the other side to control the volume. Also, are there any issues with placing the E17 face down (screen scratches), I realized there is a button lock but also seems annoying to have to constantly flip it after every adjustment.
 I've seen estimates of the E17 battery between 8.5 and 15 hours, this also seems as a step down from the 80 hour playtime of the E7. Has this been a hindrance to anyone?
   
  I already have a PA2V2 portable amp that I was about to sell until I purchased a Fiio L9 LOD (should have done that a long time ago, doh!) and realized it sounds pretty good from my iPod and improves my sound a bit. How much of and improvement could I expect in the amp department?
   
  The other issue is the DAC, while I have a Creative XtremeMusic card that doesn't sound too bad to me(!) I'm sure I can get better sound from my computer. How do the sound card (ASUS Xonar ST, etc) options look compared to the DAC on the E17 if I'm not concerned about portability?
   
  Thanks for any help!


----------



## Half Decaf

I'm thinking of getting my first DAC Amp and this one is fairly cheap and sounds like it is a winner.  Couple of questions, first:
   
  My laptop doesn't show USB as a playback device.  Will my laptop automatically load a USB sound driver when it detects the E17 connected to it?
   
  The writeup (thanks ClieOS) says that the SPDIF port accepts both optical and coax.  Does the E17 come with the adapters for both forms of plugs to work with the SPDIF port, or is that extra?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





half decaf said:


> I'm thinking of getting my first DAC Amp and this one is fairly cheap and sounds like it is a winner.  Couple of questions, first:
> 
> My laptop doesn't show USB as a playback device.  Will my laptop automatically load a USB sound driver when it detects the E17 connected to it?
> 
> The writeup (thanks ClieOS) says that the SPDIF port accepts both optical and coax.  Does the E17 come with the adapters for both forms of plugs to work with the SPDIF port, or is that extra?


 


  1: of course it won't show it  you don't have anything registered or installed yet. yes, when you plug the class 1 USB in the E17 in, it will show up in options. most of the time it will auto set it to the right choice but if not, do it mainually in playback devices  be sure when using E17 that your computer and programs always have the volume at 100(itunes,VLC etc) and use E17 to control volume
   
  2: it comes with adapters. the E17 for S/PDIF comes with a mini toslink to toslink adapter(look it up) and a 3.5mm jack(don't know what this one is called as i don't do coaxil) to a female coaxil head. so it's fine, don't worry. what you need to worry about is the other end. the E17 only comes with one set and sometimes your cable requires two to plug into the computer..sometimes not.
   
  @bobbysteel
  plz note that i read your post..i just can't answer it without sounding like an idiot that is comparing or making wild gueses bassed of things i've never tested so...i cant exactly say.


----------



## kalbee

Alright, I'm not the most qualified person to answer but some of my answers would be:
  Quote: 





bobby steel said:


> Since I have barely missed both times Miccastore has had stock recently and fell for AdvancedMP3Players in stock/out of stock scam I am in the pool of those anxiously waiting to get my hands on one later this month. To kill the time I guess I'll ask those fortunate owners a few questions that have been in the back of my mind.
> 
> On the design vs the E7:
> 
> ...


 
  1. (did not own a E7) I sure bet it's different, but I don't find much trouble with pressing the buttons on its face. The e17 is much smaller than, say, an iphone anyway, so having buttons on the same side doesn't equal better usability IMO. Though in general I find the volume I want and it's locked there. Yeah, flipping it around can be annoying for some. Once you get used to the shape and form you can operate it by ear though; the volume buttons are, however, not highly raised so you may not succeed with gloves on.
   
  2. The battery life seems to be about that long, yes. It lasts me through one to two days listening on the go. As a DAC even without USB charging on, it goes way beyond that. Seems when plugged to the computer it doesn't (or barely) use the batteries; ClieOS confirmed this in the early posts of this thread. So to me, it's not anymore inconvenient than my 4S, cause that thing dies just about as quickly or even sooner.


  Quote: 





half decaf said:


> I'm thinking of getting my first DAC Amp and this one is fairly cheap and sounds like it is a winner.  Couple of questions, first:
> 
> My laptop doesn't show USB as a playback device.  Will my laptop automatically load a USB sound driver when it detects the E17 connected to it?
> 
> The writeup (thanks ClieOS) says that the SPDIF port accepts both optical and coax.  Does the E17 come with the adapters for both forms of plugs to work with the SPDIF port, or is that extra?


 

 It won't show USB playback unless there is a USB playback capable device plugged in your laptop, unlike HDMI. Also make sure you set to visible all the disabled devices if you want to see all the stuff you can use currently; USB will not be there though.
   
  What OS do you use? I have Windows 7 x64 and it works (never tried with my desktop, which is 32bit). In fact, it switches automatically to the e17 the moment it is plugged in. Naturally you can disable it if you want. I believe there is an option to let your computer automatically switch to whatever device is plugged in, but I don't remember and cannot confirm this at the moment.
   
  And yes, it does come with two small adapters. I've never used the SPDIF, neither optical nor coaxial, but they do come with the adapters. (EDIT: bowei beat me to the reply! read his post above for details regarding this)


----------



## Bobby Steel

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @bobbysteel
> plz note that i read your post..i just can't answer it without sounding like an idiot that is comparing or making wild gueses bassed of things i've never tested so...i cant exactly say.


 

 No problems, I appreciate the thought anyway!
   

  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Alright, I'm not the most qualified person to answer but some of my answers would be:
> 1. (did not own a E7) I sure bet it's different, but I don't find much trouble with pressing the buttons on its face. The e17 is much smaller than, say, an iphone anyway, so having buttons on the same side doesn't equal better usability IMO. Though in general I find the volume I want and it's locked there. Yeah, flipping it around can be annoying for some. Once you get used to the shape and form you can operate it by ear though; the volume buttons are, however, not highly raised so you may not succeed with gloves on.
> 
> 2. The battery life seems to be about that long, yes. It lasts me through one to two days listening on the go. As a DAC even without USB charging on, it goes way beyond that. Seems when plugged to the computer it doesn't (or barely) use the batteries; ClieOS confirmed this in the early posts of this thread. So to me, it's not anymore inconvenient than my 4S, cause that thing dies just about as quickly or even sooner.


 
   
  Thanks! It's nice to here that the buttons are recessed. If it were to lay flat on the table would the surface be completely flush with the table?
   
  Considering how horrible the battery life is on my iPod I guess the E17's shouldn't be that much of an issue. It's nice to know that DAC use won't drain them that much also.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bobby steel said:


> No problems, I appreciate the thought anyway!
> 
> 
> Thanks! It's nice to here that the buttons are recessed. If it were to lay flat on the table would the surface be completely flush with the table?
> ...


 


  1: the hold button is larger than all the rest and is the only..non pushable button(it slides) when laying flat on screen, the bigger hold button lifts the e17 above the table just slightly so no other button on the right side(same side as hold button) touches..however...when doing this, the power button hits the table..even if i put it down softly and the E17 turns on. also i use bands with this. i keep the bands in the area between volume buttons and power and menu button which coincides with the area of my ipod that i like to leave it as it is the best minimimalistic way to use the ipod with least covering with bands. many times whe bands will slip and cover teh power and menu buttons. no problem, i know where they are..until i put them down. ..as soon as you put them down, the force from the band hitting the table turns the device on again....
   
  2:if you are using E17 with ipod as amp. the battery of ipod will last longer as the amp is bypassed. of course this is relative to if you were doing the same thing (impossible) under the same conditions without the E17.
  3:depending on what you use to plug into your computer the battery isn't an issue. i use S/PDIF so it is one. if you read this thread(doubt you did..i wouldn't either.....im not crazy enough to read 120+pages..i just happened to read it all as i was here since beginning) you will note that the E17's li ioin battery..will not die for a long time


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I don't know if this has been covered before but I am having trouble driving my 600ohm Beyers on this unit. I know it's not really rated for this kind of load but my E10 drove them okay. The left channel drops out after a couple of minutes and does not return. If I switch to IEM's or easy to drive headphones, everything is fine. I changed the gain to max with no effect.
> I may have to sell this if it can't drive the Beyers I have.
> Anyone else have this issue?


 


  I have to retract what I stated here- this is not the E17 but my headphones causing the left channel to go out. It must be the driver going bad. Sorry for any confusion but it works just fine with the 600ohm Beyers.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I have to retract what I stated here- this is not the E17 but my headphones causing the left channel to go out. It must be the driver going bad. Sorry for any confusion but it works just fine with the 600ohm Beyers.


 


  so...both the E10 and E17 will drive the 600 ohm beyers(which specific model plz) in your opinion to a level that in your opinion is loud enough right? ok ill remember this...you dont understand how many ask me about this..... ill try to remember some key words so i can search and link back to this post.


----------



## tim3320070

DT700/600 sound just fine on either model Fiio, but a little better on the E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> DT700/600 sound just fine on either model Fiio, but a little better on the E17.


 

 ..so BeyerDyanmics DT *770 *pro 600 ohm right?


----------



## kalbee

bobby steel said:


> No problems, I appreciate the thought anyway!
> 
> 
> Thanks! It's nice to here that the buttons are recessed. If it were to lay flat on the table would the surface be completely flush with the table?
> ...




Nono you misunderstand. The buttons are not recessed nor will the surface be flush on the table. The buttons are raised from the e17 surface but not high enough to cause a problem IMO. The immediate surrounding surface of the buttons aside from the volume buttons are actually recessed, but the resulting button height is not recessed. That said, if you put it face down on the table, the unit will sit on the buttons rather than on the screen, which is a teeny bit raised from the surface and a bit lower than the buttons.


----------



## Half Decaf

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *bowei006* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 1: of course it won't show it  you don't have anything registered or installed yet. yes, when you plug the class 1 USB in the E17 in, it will show up in options. most of the time it will auto set it to the right choice but if not, do it mainually in playback devices  be sure when using E17 that your computer and programs always have the volume at 100(itunes,VLC etc) and use E17 to control volume
> 
> 2: it comes with adapters. the E17 for S/PDIF comes with a mini toslink to toslink adapter(look it up) and a 3.5mm jack(don't know what this one is called as i don't do coaxil) to a female coaxil head. so it's fine, don't worry. what you need to worry about is the other end. the E17 only comes with one set and sometimes your cable requires two to plug into the computer..sometimes not.


 
   
  Thanks for the response.  I looked up the mini toslink to toslink. I've never seen any adapter like that. That was a surprise.  I'd always assumed the toslink cables I've been using for my stereo were actually mini toslink.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





half decaf said:


> Thanks for the response.  I looked up the mini toslink to toslink. I've never seen any adapter like that. That was a surprise.  I'd always assumed the toslink cables I've been using for my stereo were actually mini toslink.


----------



## Arboginge911

Forgive my ignorance but, 
  This would be sufficient in driving my MS-2i's, yes?
  Having that been said, is there a better choice of amplifier in the price range (Portability is not an issue), or is this just about the best I can get?
  Thanks a lot for your help!


----------



## dukeskd

Check out iBasso


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kalbee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And yes, it does come with two small adapters. I've never used the SPDIF, neither optical nor coaxial, but they do come with the adapters. (EDIT: bowei beat me to the reply! read his post above for details regarding this)


 

 Almost all headphone S/PDIF outs are mini TOSLINK, but I think the 3.5mm to coax is usually called a "mono S/PDIF" or "mono coaxial" 3.5mm cable.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Almost all headphone S/PDIF outs are mini TOSLINK, but I think the 3.5mm to coax is usually called a "mono S/PDIF" or "mono coaxial" 3.5mm cable.


 

 I guess cause coax only carry one channel? I was actually wondering how coaxial will with the e17... you're not going to get real stereo, right?
   
  As for mini TOSLINK, this would be equivalent to 3.5mm jack size? and I've actually been wondering... my previous old old Asus laptop had red light emitting from the headphone out. Is that sign of being S/PDIF capable? Back then I thought it was a sign for a better infrared connection location... in fact I still don't know what it is!
   
  Buncha questions mark sry xP
   
   

  
  Quote: 





arboginge911 said:


> Forgive my ignorance but,
> This would be sufficient in driving my MS-2i's, yes?
> Having that been said, is there a better choice of amplifier in the price range (Portability is not an issue), or is this just about the best I can get?
> Thanks a lot for your help!


 

 Not sure how different the MS-2i's are from the MS-1's in terms of ease to drive... but the e17 can drive the MS-1 very well. Tried with my uncle's. Really easy to drive, in fact. Doesn't even require an amp, though through the e17 it sounds a lot cleaner.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> I guess cause coax only carry one channel? I was actually wondering how coaxial will with the e17... you're not going to get real stereo, right?
> 
> As for mini TOSLINK, this would be equivalent to 3.5mm jack size? and I've actually been wondering... my previous old old Asus laptop had red light emitting from the headphone out. Is that sign of being S/PDIF capable? Back then I thought it was a sign for a better infrared connection location... in fact I still don't know what it is!
> 
> Buncha questions mark sry xP


 
  If there is a red light emitting from your headphone out then it is S/PDIF capable. Coaxial signal isn't specified by channel. It is the transfer of data from one source to anther source


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> I guess cause coax only carry one channel? I was actually wondering how coaxial will with the e17... you're not going to get real stereo, right?
> 
> As for mini TOSLINK, this would be equivalent to 3.5mm jack size? and I've actually been wondering... my previous old old Asus laptop had red light emitting from the headphone out. Is that sign of being S/PDIF capable? Back then I thought it was a sign for a better infrared connection location... in fact I still don't know what it is!
> 
> Buncha questions mark sry xP


 

 Coaxial cable is just another form of SPDIF digital - it can support multiple channels, but the E17 can only decode stereo (2 channel) signals. The E17 doesn't have a Dolby Digital/DTS decoder in it; you can send a full 5.1 or 7.1 signal via coaxial or TOSLink SPDIF but all you'll get via the E17 is static. To hear the audio using the E17, your digital SPDIF output must be set to 2 channel stereo.
   
  And yes, 3.5mm jack is the same size as mini-TOSLink. Most likely your old ASUS laptop does have an optical SPDIF output, but you would need to ensure that it's configured to send 2 channel stereo up to a maximum bit rate of 192Khz/24bit. Hope that helps.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Coaxial cable is just another form of SPDIF digital - it can support multiple channels, but the E17 can only decode stereo (2 channel) signals. The E17 doesn't have a Dolby Digital/DTS decoder in it; you can send a full 5.1 or 7.1 signal via coaxial or TOSLink SPDIF but all you'll get via the E17 is static. To hear the audio using the E17, your digital SPDIF output must be set to 2 channel stereo.
> 
> And yes, 3.5mm jack is the same size as mini-TOSLink. Most likely your old ASUS laptop does have an optical SPDIF output, but *you would need to ensure that it's configured to send 2 channel stereo up to a maximum bit rate of 192Khz/24bit. Hope that helps.*


 
   
  TOSLink does digital output, so it sends 0110s to your DAC (e.g. the E17). Can't really set it to send 2 channel stereo. You set the E17 to play 2 channel stereo up to max bit rate etc under playback devices if you are on Windows.


----------



## kalbee

Thanks for the answers guys!
  It was always in my head that coaxial = one channel per cable. I guess that applies only the the way RCA for analog was designed.
  Bunch of really old gears at home, never got much contact with more modern stuff xP


----------



## SniperCzar

The fact that the plug is "mono" has no effect on the sound because it's a digital signal. The coaxial digital cable only gets listed as mono on the 3.5mm end because the physical connector on that side carries the signal over a single wire (it does get grounded but the data transmits over a single line, just like how TOSLINK only needs a single fiber)

 A picture's worth a thousand words - http://www.amazon.com/PDIF-Adapter-3-5mm-MONO-Plug/dp/B001TKEGRI/


----------



## tobe

New here so: Hi everyone! Not really new to the audiophile thing, but something of a repeat offender. I've kept my eyes out for a portable amp for a while, to use with my laptop and have been following the discussion about the Fiio E17 which I finally got around to ordering last week and yesterday it arrived. As you can imagine I threw myself at it. Unfortunately I have to say that I was a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong the sound I'm hearing is definately more pleasing than what I get from the DAC of my Sony Vaio computer, but not immensely so. It also a bit better than the sound I get directly from my Samsung Galaxy II, but here the difference is even smaller. However, I'd consider that a given. What bothers me more is that it is definately not as good as what I get from the Juli@ soundcard on my desktop. I would have expected it to be at least on a par with it, given that the price is about the same and the technology newer. Now of course sound is subjective so let me describe the difference: From the Juli@ I get more resolution and detail, definately an airier sound (better soundstage perhaps but not necessarily positioning) where you can really hear the room in which the music is played. But most importantly, voices are soo much more closely and initmately rendered. Now this latter feature to me is what I'm looking for the most. I'm surprised by this because from all the reviews I've read on the Fiio this is the point most people seem to lift out as its strong point - its ability to render natural voices and acoustic instrument. However in comparison with my Juli@ soundcard voices are rendered more distant and instruments less "real". So now I'm wondering if this is reasonable or whether I've missed something. Perhaps it is reasonable that an internal soundcard would sound better but I've never seen this indicated anywhere before. Maybe I've missed some important setting? (I use winamp with flac files and a 24-bit setting which makes some difference - I've tried different settings for output in the hardware settings but this doesn't seem to make any difference).
  Best,
  Toby


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tobe said:


> New here so: Hi everyone! Not really new to the audiophile thing, but something of a repeat offender. I've kept my eyes out for a portable amp for a while, to use with my laptop and have been following the discussion about the Fiio E17 which I finally got around to ordering last week and yesterday it arrived. As you can imagine I threw myself at it. Unfortunately I have to say that I was a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong the sound I'm hearing is definately more pleasing than what I get from the DAC of my Sony Vaio computer, but not immensely so. It also a bit better than the sound I get directly from my Samsung Galaxy II, but here the difference is even smaller. However, I'd consider that a given. What bothers me more is that it is definately not as good as what I get from the Juli@ soundcard on my desktop. I would have expected it to be at least on a par with it, given that the price is about the same and the technology newer. Now of course sound is subjective so let me describe the difference: From the Juli@ I get more resolution and detail, definately an airier sound (better soundstage perhaps but not necessarily positioning) where you can really hear the room in which the music is played. But most importantly, voices are soo much more closely and initmately rendered. Now this latter feature to me is what I'm looking for the most. I'm surprised by this because from all the reviews I've read on the Fiio this is the point most people seem to lift out as its strong point - its ability to render natural voices and acoustic instrument. However in comparison with my Juli@ soundcard voices are rendered more distant and instruments less "real". So now I'm wondering if this is reasonable or whether I've missed something. Perhaps it is reasonable that an internal soundcard would sound better but I've never seen this indicated anywhere before. Maybe I've missed some important setting? (I use winamp with flac files and a 24-bit setting which makes some difference - I've tried different settings for output in the hardware settings but this doesn't seem to make any difference).
> Best,
> Toby


 


  Hello Toby! Welcome to Head-Fi!
   
  Please give the E17 at least a week. People are sometime's more pulled towards their current stuff as they know it better. I don't know what you have, but audiophile sound is a bit different. This sentence may or may not pertain to you. It seems you already get what actual sound is, but I've had people that didn't know what it was(as in..they thoght MOOOARR BASS=GOOD or thought that colored sound was better)
   
  So yes please give it 1-2 weeks with use on both devices. More so with the E17 and then start doing tests


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





tobe said:


> New here so: Hi everyone! Not really new to the audiophile thing, but something of a repeat offender. I've kept my eyes out for a portable amp for a while, to use with my laptop and have been following the discussion about the Fiio E17 which I finally got around to ordering last week and yesterday it arrived. As you can imagine I threw myself at it. Unfortunately I have to say that I was a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong the sound I'm hearing is definately more pleasing than what I get from the DAC of my Sony Vaio computer, but not immensely so. It also a bit better than the sound I get directly from my Samsung Galaxy II, but here the difference is even smaller. However, I'd consider that a given. What bothers me more is that it is definately not as good as what I get from the Juli@ soundcard on my desktop. I would have expected it to be at least on a par with it, given that the price is about the same and the technology newer. Now of course sound is subjective so let me describe the difference: From the Juli@ I get more resolution and detail, definately an airier sound (better soundstage perhaps but not necessarily positioning) where you can really hear the room in which the music is played. But most importantly, voices are soo much more closely and initmately rendered. Now this latter feature to me is what I'm looking for the most. I'm surprised by this because from all the reviews I've read on the Fiio this is the point most people seem to lift out as its strong point - its ability to render natural voices and acoustic instrument. However in comparison with my Juli@ soundcard voices are rendered more distant and instruments less "real". So now I'm wondering if this is reasonable or whether I've missed something. Perhaps it is reasonable that an internal soundcard would sound better but I've never seen this indicated anywhere before. Maybe I've missed some important setting? (I use winamp with flac files and a 24-bit setting which makes some difference - I've tried different settings for output in the hardware settings but this doesn't seem to make any difference).
> Best,
> Toby


 

 So you can't tell much difference between the bright, noisy sound from your phone (I have one) vs. the smooth sounding and silent E17?


----------



## kalbee

tim3320070 said:


> So you can't tell much difference between the bright, noisy sound from your phone (I have one) vs. the smooth sounding and silent E17?




Mind you, I don't see anywhere mentioning what earphones or headphones he's using. This can play a big factor in how much difference he hears.
Considering also the e17 is just about transparent, I have to admit it also took me a few days to come to truly appreciate the sound. I was also slightly disappointed when I first got them, but I needed something that can power my YH-1 anyway.

And thanks guys for clearing up my confusion on coaxial cables  appreciate it!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Mind you, *I don't see anywhere mentioning what earphones or headphones he's using. This can play a big factor in how much difference he hears.*
> Considering also the e17 is just about transparent, I have to admit it also took me a few days to come to truly appreciate the sound. I was also slightly disappointed when I first got them, but I needed something that can power my YH-1 anyway.
> And thanks guys for clearing up my confusion on coaxial cables
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't want to be rude or..over the top and ask him(i also forgot near the end) so my answer included a little "how much of an legit audiophile are you" type of question.
   
  Allocating about 1-2 weeks of time with the device would be great


----------



## kalbee

Well, to me it would be rather the fact that some headphones just do not stack as much (or benefit as much) from amps. Not questioning his gears, but rather pointing out that the headphones might contribute to feeling less of a change than others.
  In my case, the YH-1 didn't sound too different as much as my portapros did, for example.
   
  P.S. what happened to the pandas?!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Well, to me it would be rather the fact that some headphones just do not stack as much (or benefit as much) from amps. Not questioning his gears, but rather pointing out that the headphones might contribute to feeling less of a change than others.
> In my case, the YH-1 didn't sound too different as much as my portapros did, for example.
> 
> P.S. what happened to the pandas?!


 

 I know what you mean, and also depending on his exposure to sound science section posts that really cover what and how you should be hearing this he may not be correctly hearing the right stuff. He had the right words in his post so it may seem to me like he has that down already but again, who knows.
   
  Yes and amping responds differently to different headphones.
   
  My pandas'? They were put into retirement. I wanted a more eye catching avatar


----------



## tobe

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I use a couple of Sennheiser HD25’s. I don’t think they should be very difficult to drive. I will of course give the E17 a longer tryout before I condemn it  but I can’t really see how a DAC could really improve with time (although my appreciation of the sound possibly could). For the amp part it might be different, I don’t know. It is true that the E17 is quieter than the Galaxy but I wouldn’t say that the phone is a lot brighter. And, to be honest, I would say that the rendering of voices is a good or perhaps even better on the phone – the E17 renders them as quite distant. Now this could possibly be interpreted as a wider soundstage but that is not the feeling I get, rather It feels like something is missing in the mids. Perhaps this will change over time. I’ll give it a few more days before I condemn it as I said 
  Best,
  Toby


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tobe said:


> Sorry, I should have mentioned that I use a couple of Sennheiser HD25’s. I don’t think they should be very difficult to drive. I will of course give the E17 a longer tryout before I condemn it  but I can’t really see how a DAC could really improve with time (although my appreciation of the sound possibly could). For the amp part it might be different, I don’t know. It is true that the E17 is quieter than the Galaxy but I wouldn’t say that the phone is a lot brighter. And, to be honest, I would say that the rendering of voices is a good or perhaps even better on the phone – the E17 renders them as quite distant. Now this could possibly be interpreted as a wider soundstage but that is not the feeling I get, rather It feels like something is missing in the mids. Perhaps this will change over time. I’ll give it a few more days before I condemn it as I said
> Best,
> Toby


 

 The E17 is to add that extra mile to users...well higher users that want everything to hit in exactly, it may not be a good purchase for most people. It's an all in one kit. If you like the amp and not really(not justify) the DAC portion of the E17 then the $65 E11 is for you. If you can't justify that, then just use your phone  Whatever makes you happy as a user of audiophile accepted head fi loved headhones makes you happy and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise


----------



## tobe

@Bowei006: I don't want to imply that I prefer the Galaxy to the E17. My reference is rather the Juli@ (or my PrimaLuna tube amplifier) who both render both male and female voices in such an intimate and corporeal manner - like having them standing right next to you. It is that sensation I'm missing. Perhaps I'm simply looking at the wrong gear - sound is after all subjective and what I'm looking for might be elsewhere, but I like the idea of having it all in one unit (and if an internal soundcard can do it, then why not an external DAC/amplifier). But I'll give it a rest. Thanks,
  Tobe


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





tobe said:


> Sorry, I should have mentioned that I use a couple of Sennheiser HD25’s. I don’t think they should be very difficult to drive. I will of course give the E17 a longer tryout before I condemn it  but I can’t really see how a DAC could really improve with time (although my appreciation of the sound possibly could). For the amp part it might be different, I don’t know. It is true that the E17 is quieter than the Galaxy but I wouldn’t say that the phone is a lot brighter. And, to be honest, I would say that the rendering of voices is a good or perhaps even better on the phone – the E17 renders them as quite distant. Now this could possibly be interpreted as a wider soundstage but that is not the feeling I get, rather It feels like something is missing in the mids. Perhaps this will change over time. I’ll give it a few more days before I condemn it as I said
> Best,
> Toby


 

 Well, if that's what you hear and enjoy, that's all that matters but I have to say that going from the Galaxy phone to the E17 is like a relief to my ears. I would use the E17 for a week without using your phone at all (for music), then try the phone with the same music and get back to us. If you're listening to compressed, noisy pop music, this might be a moot subject as good recordings are what the E17 (or any good device) are about.


----------



## hyogen

you guys have been here for most of it...from me listening to the DT880 and getting them. then ordering the E17 and finally cancelling with mp4nation..  then finally moving onto the little dot mkIII   here's my introduction and account of how i paid for it all while the wife was away    http://www.head-fi.org/t/599650/crazy-but-true-story-of-how-this-pauper-got-the-girl-and-hifi-equipment-cleverly-where-this-is-a-will-there-is-a-way-even-for-the-poor-hifiman-d


----------



## tobe

@tim3320070: How do you compare the sound of your galaxy phone with your E17? Are you comparing the sound out of the phone with the sound from another source through the DAC/amp parts of the E17 or are you comparing with the sound through the amp part of the E17 using the auxillary port?
  Best,
  Toby


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





tobe said:


> @tim3320070: How do you compare the sound of your galaxy phone with your E17? Are you comparing the sound out of the phone with the sound from another source through the DAC/amp parts of the E17 or are you comparing with the sound through the amp part of the E17 using the auxillary port?
> Best,
> Toby


 

 Klipsch X10 direct into phone (Captivate and Note), no amp. Same IEM with laptop and E17 via usb. Phone sucks (noisy, etchy, bright), the E17 is great (smooth, black background, refined). My Fuze sounds better than the phone.


----------



## zzffnn

Still waiting for E17 to show up on Amazon........


----------



## psygeist

I got this problem with some IEMs like RE-0 and e-Q5.
   
  E17 at high gain. And if I go beyond Volume 34 both will start making noise like "kirrrrr".
   
  While i can increase the volume in foobar all the way up without any disturbance.
   
  Source is Asus Xonar STX via RCA, foobar ASIO.
   
  It doesn't happen if I use FUZE+ as source.
   
  Also, Fiio E17's spdif port is black and not the pink one as shown on Fiio website:


----------



## xander90

^Mine is black either.


----------



## Biscuitz

Quote: 





skeeder said:


> Kinda of an apple to orange test...Anyone test this versus the Hifiman EF2A?
> 
> Around the same price (not portable...) same idea...USB DAC/amp.


 


  I'm also very curious about this comparison. I ordered the E17, since I need a DAC/amp setup, but also knowing the portability of the E17 may come in handy. But, for not much more, I wonder how much better then EF2A performs against the E17? If it's a great difference, I could see myself getting by just fine with a non-portable amp.

 I'd be using these with DT 990 Pro's 250 ohm.

 Edit: I also figured, if I want to upgrade with the E17, I could do so when the new E9 comes out. Probably an impossible question to answer, but should the new E9 / E17 combo be comparable to an EF2A setup?


----------



## kalbee

The pink SPDIF was only used in the prototype, and ClieOS has mentioned a few times. So it's normal.


----------



## psygeist

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> The pink SPDIF was only used in the prototype, and ClieOS has mentioned a few times. So it's normal.


 


  Shouldn't they update the pics on official site ?
   
  Still haven't got any answer for second issue.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





psygeist said:


> I got this problem with some IEMs like RE-0 and e-Q5.
> 
> E17 at high gain. And if I go beyond Volume 34 both will start making noise like "kirrrrr".
> 
> ...


 
  pink in the pics is on demo units. regular production is a blakc S/PDIF port. i get the same hiss or kk on high gain. please note all ur questions haev been asked before and answered...i would not expect you to have read. that is built in by design..well not built in, but because of the digital design, that is naturally occuring by design. on medium and low gain mode, i either don't meet this problem or it quickly corrects itself(bad terms) and disappears but on high gain i meet this problem sometimes. when it happens you have to increase the volume up until it stop and drop back down...please note..if you accidentl press play while doing this..you might blow your earbuds.....and maybe damage hearing. please just stick with medium gain as that should be enough.
   
  in foobar? when using E17 with computer. please don't use volume controls on computer. leave windows volume controls and app volume alone or at 100%. control volume only with E17 for best audio playback
  
   


  Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> I'm also very curious about this comparison. I ordered the E17, since I need a DAC/amp setup, but also knowing the portability of the E17 may come in handy. But, for not much more, I wonder how much better then EF2A performs against the E17? If it's a great difference, I could see myself getting by just fine with a non-portable amp.
> 
> I'd be using these with DT 990 Pro's 250 ohm.
> 
> Edit: I also figured, if I want to upgrade with the E17, I could do so when the new E9 comes out. Probably an impossible question to answer, but should the new E9 / E17 combo be comparable to an EF2A setup?


 
  the E9 is not the TRUE dedicated amp of the E17. the E19 is, but it won't be out till end of this year. it's hard to compare as one allows you to have a dedicated DAC, DAC and amp, portable amp, external portable sound card, EQ options, multiple inputs, and a desktop dedicated amp with plug in and line out options... FiiO has a great if not the best (in this industry) price to performance to options ratio. the price to performance is very close to some a lot of times like u see here..but the options is where the FiiO pulls ahead


----------



## zzffnn

^ is high gain necessary for IEMs? What db do you listen at? High gain always brings more noise in an amp and should only be used for full size headphone that are power hungry.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> ^ is high gain necessary for IEMs? What db do you listen at? High gain always brings more noise in an amp and should only be used for full size headphone that are power hungry.


 


  i have yet to hear of a IEM that needs high gain on this device. I stay at 0dB to 6dB. i've tried 12dB. and of course..the last part i know. im going to guess this was aimed at the other dude..but i more or less already got it in my above post.


----------



## zzffnn

I was asking psygeist and whoever uses high gain on IEMs.


----------



## psygeist

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> pink in the pics is on demo units. regular production is a blakc S/PDIF port. i get the same hiss or kk on high gain. please note all ur questions haev been asked before and answered...i would not expect you to have read. that is built in by design..well not built in, but because of the digital design, that is naturally occuring by design. on medium and low gain mode, i either don't meet this problem or it quickly corrects itself(bad terms) and disappears but on high gain i meet this problem sometimes. when it happens you have to increase the volume up until it stop and drop back down...please note..if you accidentl press play while doing this..you might blow your earbuds.....and maybe damage hearing. please just stick with medium gain as that should be enough.


 

 Ok, but why does it always happen with my PC but not with FUZE+ ? I can go all the way above 34 when the source is FUZE+.
   
   
  Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> I was asking psygeist and whoever uses high gain on IEMs.


 

 I keep it between volume level 20 to 34 and foobar at less than 50% volume for e-Q5 and slightly more than 50% for RE-0.
   
  And keep the volume b/w 20-45, FUZE+ volume stays around 50%. Mostly use RE-0 here.
   
  Volume at 100% renders the sound slightly muddy on either gain setting while using FUZE+, probably because of additional amplification by FUZE+ since there is no line out.


----------



## Deltaechoe

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> the E9 is not the TRUE dedicated amp of the E17. the E19 is, but it won't be out till end of this year. it's hard to compare as one allows you to have a dedicated DAC, DAC and amp, portable amp, external portable sound card, EQ options, multiple inputs, and a desktop dedicated amp with plug in and line out options... FiiO has a great if not the best (in this industry) price to performance to options ratio. the price to performance is very close to some a lot of times like u see here..but the options is where the FiiO pulls ahead


 

 I'm curious as to what exactly you are talking about when you say e19, I looked around google a bit, but didn't find anything.  Is it just supposedly an update from the e9?  Also, waiting for a new shipment of e17s so I can drive my new cans


----------



## bowei006

deltaechoe said:


> I'm curious as to what exactly you are talking about when you say e19, I looked around google a bit, but didn't find anything.  Is it just supposedly an update from the e9?  Also, waiting for a new shipment of e17s so I can drive my new cans




U r right. Just like the e17 is e7 update e19 is the same. Its only been said a few times on head fi. 

@psygeist, that would seem to be an op amp and digital volume thing on the e17 im not sure how its happening for one and not other


----------



## Sysagent

I have both the FiiO E17, FiiO E7 and a HiFiMan EF2A.
   
  I currently use the FiiO E17 to drive the amplifier stage of the HiFiMan EF2A (I used to use the E7), I can do a comparison of the E17 and the EF2A once I am happy that the FiiO E17 has had sufficient enough time to burn in like the other devices.
   
  I wouldn't hold your breath out for the EF2A, the reason I don't use it as much as I should is due to it's unbearably high gain, it's just too damn loud.
   
  Sys


----------



## bowei006

^plz explain what you mean by drive the amp stage. I dont know what the hifiman specifically is. Are u dual amping is what u meant? Using as pre amp?

However so far how do you feel on the two. A tube amp comparison would be nice... Well mainly i see many going with little dots and its making me curious how a tube amp generally stacks up


----------



## steveb

Has FiiO actually confirmed an e19?  What could it offer if the connections are the same?  The only thing I could like would be an optical in.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





steveb said:


> Has FiiO actually confirmed an e19?  What could it offer if the connections are the same?  The only thing I could like would be an optical in.


 


  IT has semi comfirmed it. There is quite a bit of info on it on head fi. not in the threads you would think it'd be in though. Any info is unknown. think of it as a better desktop amp.


----------



## Bleether

I pre ordered the Fiio E17 for the second batch a week ago. I cant stand my on board audio on my laptop, it is absolutely terrible. I want my E17 and i want it now ! Ahhhh lol.


----------



## CRS27

I absolutely love my E17.  Battery life is fantastic...  I get 7-9 hours on/off with it...


----------



## Sennhe1ser0fan

Just wondering, I plugged my E17 into my PS3 through optical/toslink and tried to play music through my headphones. Now I am unable to get sound at all. It was working perfectly before over USB, but now nothing. Is it possible that i may have fried a transistor or something? The PS3's output was set to 174 KHZ or something, which the E17 is unable to process, I think.


----------



## H20Fidelity

Quote: 





sennhe1ser0fan said:


> Just wondering, I plugged my E17 into my PS3 through optical/toslink and tried to play music through my headphones. Now I am unable to get sound at all. It was working perfectly before over USB, but now nothing. Is it possible that i may have fried a transistor or something? The PS3's output was set to 174 KHZ or something, which the E17 is unable to process, I think.


 

  
   Have you tried the hardware reset by disconnecting all cables, turning the unit off and then inserting a pin/thin paperclip into the reset hole on the top, between the headphone and SPDIF input jacks? You can also try doing a software reset to load defaults using the System menu.


----------



## xxhaxx

Did you change  the input?


----------



## bowei006

Is the 9hour battery a joke? It varies depending on how you used it and how they tested it

The e17 will take 174KHz and 192KHz and display it as 192KHz. Like h20 said try resetting it


----------



## Potsdam

Bleether 
  what type of shipping method did you use ordering the FiiO E17?
  Can you recommend which one to choose?


----------



## ManShear

Hi All,
   
  Read through this thread and it appears my first question isn't fully answered.
   
  I have the E17 and also the E7.  I also have the E9.  When using the E7 via USB with my iPad using FLAC Player or iPod interface or computer using Foobar, MediaMonkey or iTunes the volume control in the source applications is not available.  However, with the E17 it is available on all and able to be adjusted.  Is this due to how the DAC portion of the unit is implemented or is it not working properly (or is the E7 DAC not working properly)?  When I introduce the E9, there is no change to any of what I explain above.  Furthermore, when I connect the E17 via LOD, the volume controls on all of them go away.
   
  My second question is one that has got me very concerned.  After having the E17 for a little over a week and working perfectly in what I'm about to describe, all of a sudden when playing hi-res audio via FLAC Player on my iPad, there is a crackling sound - almost like distortion but not quite.  I believe I narrowed it down to two possibilities.  It is either the hi-res DAC or FLAC Player. 
   
  Here is how I trouble shooted.  Used LOD to E17 using FLAC player - no distortion; used iPod interface on iPad - no distortion; changed USB cables - no affect, still there; took E9 in and out of the path, no affect, still there; did a Software reset - no affect; did a hard reset - no affect.  Any help would be appreciated!!  This is the main reason I bought the unit - to take full advantage of my hi-res music.
   
  When I get home tonight I plan to do two things.  First I will try the E7 using FLAC Player via USB.  Then I will also check on my computer using Foobar, MediaMonkey and iTunes to see if it still may be FLAC Player.  I did update my iPad firmware last night and haven't tried FLAC Player until now.  Fingers are crossed that this is the culprit.  Also, I plan to check to see if the S/PDIF path is impacted.


----------



## Potsdam

Anybody, please help me to choose shipping method, I'm confused. Which one is checked?


----------



## ClieOS

Whether the volume is software adjustable is controlled by the USB receiver chip on E7 and E17 (which are two different chips). With E7, the volume control function is disable. With E17, the function is not disable. Software volume control tends to lower the digital resolution of the music, and thus it is best not to use it.
   
  The 2nd issue is usually driver related with high resolution / bitrate music, meaning the driver between the iPad and E17 is not communicating correctly. Check E17 with other source (PC, Mac, etc) to confirm. If E17 sounds fine with other source, then the problem is likely on the iPad.


----------



## bowei006

potsdam said:


> Anybody, please help me to choose shipping method, I'm confused. Which one is checked?




What do you mean? Screenshot?


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Whether the volume is software adjustable is controlled by the USB receiver chip on E7 and E17 (which are two different chips). With E7, the volume control function is disable. With E17, the function is not disable. Software volume control tends to lower the digital resolution of the music, and thus it is best not to use it.
> 
> The 2nd issue is usually driver related with high resolution / bitrate music, meaning the driver between the iPad and E17 is not communicating correctly. Check E17 with other source (PC, Mac, etc) to confirm. If E17 sounds fine with other source, then the problem is likely on the iPad.


 

 Thanks for the timely reply ClieOS!!
   
  So are you saying the USB receiver implementation on the E17 is inferior to the implementation on the E7?  If that is true, why would Fiio choose to do that on a higher quality product?
   
  For the second issue, I plan to do just what you suggest.  I wonder if Apple updated it's drivers in the new firmware update I installed last night.  It seems odd that they would do so, UNLESS, the new iPads can play hi-res music because the internal DAC is able to do so, and they needed to update the drivers to make it work.   I'm hoping it is firmware related and also hoping Apple or the developer of FLAC Player are able to address it.  Do you think since I am not getting the noise when playing other music from my iPad via USB that the DAC can be ruled out entirely or does the DAC work differently depending on the bit rate?


----------



## BlancoTheBull

He everybody,      (     yeah I know about my wallet  )   )
  I'm new on this forum. I've read the hole thing (140+ pages).
  I've ordered the E17 about a month ago 'in the Netherlands' (after sending back my E7, I did like it but I read about the E17 wich would improve sound even more  ).
 I bought it together with a HD 598 (wich sounds great). I was wondering what are the pros and cons if you compare the E17 vs (let say a) Asus Xonar Essence STX (onboard)? (I don't mean the obvious things like portability). But more the cons for gaming (especialy). I'm going to use it (probably a bit more for listening to music, than movies and games). I don't know any technical terms, so if it could be explained in practical terms (what you actualy will hear and notice) that would be great.
   
  Also I read the following:
  Fiio E17: Frequency response:10Hz~100KHz[AMP]; 10Hz~20KHz[DAC]
 HD 598: Minimale frequentie 12Hz;  Maximale frequentie 38,5kHz 
  Does this mean I will only hear untill 20KHz, eventhough mu headset can go till 38,5kHz?
  Also is the small k vs the big K meaning a diferent thing? (I only found it's supposed to be meaning the samen thing).
   
  Thanks for answering my question.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





manshear said:


> Thanks for the timely reply ClieOS!!
> 
> So are you saying the USB receiver implementation on the E17 is inferior to the implementation on the E7?  If that is true, why would Fiio choose to do that on a higher quality product?
> 
> For the second issue, I plan to do just what you suggest.  I wonder if Apple updated it's drivers in the new firmware update I installed last night.  It seems odd that they would do so, UNLESS, the new iPads can play hi-res music because the internal DAC is able to do so, and they needed to update the drivers to make it work.   I'm hoping it is firmware related and also hoping Apple or the developer of FLAC Player are able to address it.  Do you think since I am not getting the noise when playing other music from my iPad via USB that the DAC can be ruled out entirely or does the DAC work differently depending on the bit rate?


 
  While it is always better not to adjust volume digitally, it is hard for average consumer to understand why they are not allow to use it. So it the end, it is just reason of convenience to let the user to decide how to use it. The USB implementation on E17 is every bit better than that of E7, just adding another option to make everyone happy because digital volume control seems like a better feature for average Joe than better resolution, especially since most don't understand resolution correctly.
   
  If normal resolution music plays fine on iPad + E17, then it is almost certainly an issue of driver.
   

 @BlancoTheBull - Human hearing only goes up to 20kHz on average when you are very young, tend to drop below 18kHz when you are adult and below 16kHz (or much worst) as you get old. Don't get confused by the number manufacturer put out - you are neither superman or a bat to hearing anything over 20kHz.
   
  Also, all music are recorded within 20Hz ~ 20kHz, nothing more.


----------



## ManShear

Was able to run home and grab my E7.
   
  Tried using FLAC Player with it and there is no crackle.  Now I'm getting concerned.  Is my E17 damaged?  Or, can it still be a driver issue since the E7 cannot play over 48K resolution?
   
  I still have some troubleshooting to do when I get home using Foobar and MediaMonkey on my computer.
   
  Thanks for calrifying how the digital volume control works.


----------



## ClieOS

You are overthinking the whole situation - of course E7 won't have any issue since it only play 16/48 at most. Your FLAC player just downsample when used with E7. Ain't you problem related to hi-res files and E17? Using E7 normally really proves nothing.


----------



## ManShear

OK, I thought that may be the case.
   
  Just to clarify, the E17 did work fine at playing my hi-res files via FLAC Player up until this morning.  Only change is I updated the OS software on my iPad to iOS 5.1 last night.  I am almost certain the update is the culprit.  I just have a nervous feeling it may be due to me possibly rough handling the E17.  I don't think I have done that, but want to make sure.  At this point I think the only way to be certain is to test it using my computer with hi-res files.
   
  I'll be certain to let everyone know after I test this later this evening.
   
  Thanks ClieOS!!


----------



## GrumbleFish

So, I read this thread when ClieOS originally reviewed it, which was a long time ago now... And then I stopped reading after he finished his review, assuming that the E17 would be more or less readily available by march-ish.
   
  However, it still seems as though it isn't available to order and actually get it shipped right away.
   
  Is this correct? Or is there someone who actually has E17's in stock?
   
  Thanks for the answer in advance, I realize this question has probably been asked a lot, but it should be a simple answer yes or no.
   
  I appreciate it!


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





potsdam said:


> Bleether
> what type of shipping method did you use ordering the FiiO E17?
> Can you recommend which one to choose?


 


  I ordered my Fiio from MP4NATION, and they offer free shipping plus your choice of expedited shipping or a brainwavz beta. I choose the free earphone because i plan on selling them, then my Fiio e17 will have technically cost me around $100 usd.


----------



## Bleether

The first batch of the E17 literally sold out within a matter of hours, so no retailer has them available. Your only option is to pre-order it if you want one.
   
  I have been checking Amazon, ebay, and a few other online stores everyday since the release of the e17 and i have seen one for sale. Seems like everyone who bought one is holding on to them.
  
  Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> So, I read this thread when ClieOS originally reviewed it, which was a long time ago now... And then I stopped reading after he finished his review, assuming that the E17 would be more or less readily available by march-ish.
> 
> However, it still seems as though it isn't available to order and actually get it shipped right away.
> 
> ...


----------



## GrumbleFish

Well, I guess I'll just wait a bit longer then. Not eager to jump on another preorder.
   
  Thanks for the info though.


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





manshear said:


> OK, I thought that may be the case.
> 
> Just to clarify, the E17 did work fine at playing my hi-res files via FLAC Player up until this morning.  Only change is I updated the OS software on my iPad to iOS 5.1 last night.  I am almost certain the update is the culprit.  I just have a nervous feeling it may be due to me possibly rough handling the E17.  I don't think I have done that, but want to make sure.  At this point I think the only way to be certain is to test it using my computer with hi-res files.
> 
> ...


 
  At home now listening to the same files that were on my iPad via MediaMonkey on my computer using the USB connection on the E17 at 96k/24bit.  No crackling!!  That's a big relief to me.  I sent a note to the developers of FLAC Player.  Hopefully they'll be able to address it.


----------



## gohanssjn

For anyone wondering what we were talking about before with static over USB:
   
http://soundcloud.com/coronadoisdead/dell-latitude-xt-and-fiio-e17
   
  That's what it sounds like on my laptop.  Desktop is fine.
   
  Going to buy an ExpressCard USB port card to see if that fixes it (USB comes off the southbridge and ExpressCard off the northbridge, so it's worth a shot).


----------



## Hyster

Cracking review, very tempted to preorder one of these.


----------



## dexvx

It's about middle of March and still no news from Mp4nation.


----------



## jommy999

seem like push back date to 3 April in UK for the 2nd batch.


----------



## bowei006

It seems my worst fears of mid april to june for mass availbility will soon come true. I didn't expect the hype to be so much that units would get sold out so quick over sea's and in U.S..but man


----------



## jommy999

yes price/quality and functions way to go !
  i guess i just stick with my PC onboard for now (Realtek HD888 which its quite good ) till fiio e17 is available again then i can really decide which DAC to get.


----------



## nsx280ps

I finally gave up.... waited for it to go on amazon for months (since i have a gift card).... ended up getting the Matrix MStage new version with the USB dac built in from amazon (sold by 3rd party)... hope itll work out great


----------



## jommy999

Quote: 





nsx280ps said:


> I finally gave up.... waited for it to go on amazon for months (since i have a gift card).... ended up getting the Matrix MStage new version with the USB dac built in from amazon (sold by 3rd party)... hope itll work out great


 


  how much you pay for it ? which model number . i havent look into detail of any Mstage yet.


----------



## nsx280ps

Quote: 





jommy999 said:


> how much you pay for it ? which model number . i havent look into detail of any Mstage yet.


 

 Paid $299 for it...
   
  http://www.matrix-digi.com/cpshow.asp?pid=32
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-M-Stage-Headphone-Amplifier-USB/dp/B00775POZW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1331433914&sr=8-2


----------



## SniperCzar

For those of you having problems with power draw with the E17 and an iPad even when not in USB charging mode, why don't you just take a spare 10cent USB mini cable and a knife and cut out the 5v pin? Should force the E17 to run entirely on internal battery but still be able to transfer data over the 3.3v signal lines. I think the E17 even when not on USB charging mode draws enough power to run itself even when not charging (makes sense to do it that way if you have it docked in an E9, but I'm guessing the CCK USB port isn't putting out 500milliamps as per the USB specs)


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> For those of you having problems with power draw with the E17 and an iPad even when not in USB charging mode, why don't you just take a spare 10cent USB mini cable and a knife and cut out the 5v pin? Should force the E17 to run entirely on internal battery but still be able to transfer data over the 3.3v signal lines. I think the E17 even when not on USB charging mode draws enough power to run itself even when not charging (makes sense to do it that way if you have it docked in an E9, but I'm guessing the CCK USB port isn't putting out 500milliamps as per the USB specs)


 

 Might be worth a try when I find the time - and yes, the iPad with CCK only allows for < 150 mA of current, quite a bit lower than the standard 500 mA USB spec. I still like the idea of a proper cable and/or battery powered USB hub, but something nice and clean that would still make the iPad a pretty decent 'portable' music player (when equipped with FLAC Player or VLC and loaded with well ripped FLAC content).


----------



## Siftah

My E17 turned up a couple of weeks ago and I've listened to it a fair bit since then.
   
  Using the LOD from the iPhone 4S to the E17 and then Beyer DT1350's, I can't discern any difference between the E17 and the iPhone 4S's normal headphone out.
   
  Running the E17 from USB at 24bit, 96k and comparing it to the AUNE driven via digital (at 96k/24bit) the E17 seems to be a little brighter when listening with Grado SR325is's, though not really any noticeable difference with the DT1350's.
   
  Listening to the E17 driven by USB at 24bit/96k and comparing it to the iPhone 4S there is more of a discernible difference, but again, nothing too huge.
   
  Maybe my ears are just crap, but I'm not seeing any significant difference with the E17 from the iPhone 4S's built in DAC, especially when driven by line-level analog input.
   
  I can't see my carrying the E17 round with me rather than just saving the bulk and using the DT1350's direct from the iPhone 4S. There's just not enough difference to make it worthwhile (if any!)
   
  Anyone else found the same?


----------



## MickeyVee

Ditto for me.  I have no use for the E17 as a portable amp from my iPhone4 or my iPod with either the Senn HD25's or vModa M-80's.  Where the E17 shines is with my Mac Mini or MacBook Air as a dac/amp.. amazing.
  If only we could get at the digital stream from the iPhone/iPod and use the E17 dac.. that would be amazing!


----------



## kalbee

I hear a difference with and without the E17 on my 4S. A lot of it falls into soundstage, but the overall sound is slightly different too. I find the 4S alone a little bit warmer. I can do with either setup, though I do prefer the sound out of the e17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





siftah said:


> My E17 turned up a couple of weeks ago and I've listened to it a fair bit since then.
> 
> Using the LOD from the iPhone 4S to the E17 and then Beyer DT1350's, I can't discern any difference between the E17 and the iPhone 4S's normal headphone out.
> 
> ...


 

 Everyone's opinion on how much difference or what ot listen to is different. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work  hey sometimes it's even better...it's annoying if you hear every single thing wrong with your equipment.
   


  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Ditto for me.  I have no use for the E17 as a portable amp from my iPhone4 or my iPod with either the Senn HD25's or vModa M-80's.  Where the E17 shines is with my Mac Mini or MacBook Air as a dac/amp.. amazing.
> If only we could get at the digital stream from the iPhone/iPod and use the E17 dac.. that would be amazing!


 


  I use my E17 with my ipod mainly for the different (small change) sonically..but mainly for EQ..nothing else and to drive it on my oldies songs...and yes..from computer...with WM8740. difference to me is huge.


  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> I hear a difference with and without the E17 on my 4S. A lot of it falls into soundstage, but the overall sound is slightly different too. I find the 4S alone a little bit warmer. I can do with either setup, though I do prefer the sound out of the e17.


 
  I find it warmer also, not necessarily good audiophile warmer, but good consumer sound warmer. I find using the E17 with the ipod touch 2G to be a bit colder and more transparent at times, but when using the WM8740 DAC..it changes. i have a 4S but i don't use it with E17. you have to turn on airplane mode on my 4S or else EMI sneaks in (AT&T in HSPDA area)...over Faux-G.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I find it warmer also, not necessarily good audiophile warmer, but good consumer sound warmer. I find using the E17 with the ipod touch 2G to be a bit colder and more transparent at times, but when using the WM8740 DAC..it changes. i have a 4S but i don't use it with E17. you have to turn on airplane mode on my 4S or else EMI sneaks in (AT&T in HSPDA area)...over Faux-G.


 

 My thoughts exactly. Having the e17 is a change, but for the better. Though I don't have a data plan so I probably don't get nearly as much EMI... not absent though :<


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> My thoughts exactly. Having the e17 is a change, but for the better. Though I don't have a data plan so I probably don't get nearly as much EMI... not absent though :<


 


  ....tell me sir. how you got a 4S with no data plan? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and there is not a loud EMI with mine on ATT with HSPDA region...but a good volume of it. tested it once while out so wifi and bluetooth was not enabled, only Faux G and no other known wireless emiter or receiver. Turning on Airplane mode quickly cancelled the EMI....but....it's my phone.....i can't exactly just leave it like that and all my songs are on my ipod

   
  such a good sexy looking combo  I just took a pic of my 4S and E17..i dind't actualy use it as I didn't have any music on it and I didn't care for streaming(even if the maximum support of airplay is uncompressed CD quality)
   
  I took the pic with another 4S I had on hand, the one in the pic is mine 
   
  IT is for the better but many can't "hear" the changes and I understand. Everyone is different. The changes aren't huge for me portably. the changes are like those thing that always annoy you. like that itch behind your back and with the E17 it takes most of that itch away(song dependant) i Find that sometimes I just want consumer sound though :/


----------



## kalbee

Well, they sell unlocked phones now. Actually since a few months ago? I guess that means you can just buy one for full price and do whatever you want with it, with a data plan or not.
  In my case, my dad got one as his new cellphone, and he let me have it (thanks dad!). I cut my sim card up and here I am using it w/o data plan.
  I can't afford paying for data every month... especially being in this hobby!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Well, they sell unlocked phones now. Actually since a few months ago? I guess that means you can just buy one for full price and do whatever you want with it, with a data plan or not.
> In my case, my dad got one as his new cellphone, and he let me have it (thanks dad!). I cut my sim card up and here I am using it w/o data plan.
> I can't afford paying for data every month... especially being in this hobby!


 

 ok the first one i ruled out since....that's way to expensive and someone willing to pay that much would probably have data
   
  i ruled out the second one as I've never known someone so generous(even in family)...i salute your father sir.


----------



## A Kennedy4

To anyone who wants more information on the Senn HD 600 and e17 combo I can post some impressions, but I'm to lazy unless asked. 
   
  But to be concise: It makes a world of a difference for volume output on the ipod, and really brings out the lower end, and soundstage. The sound is overall much fuller and clearer.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ok the first one i ruled out since....that's way to expensive and someone willing to pay that much would probably have data
> 
> i ruled out the second one as I've never known someone so generous(even in family)...i salute your father sir.


 

  And just for clarifications, my family is anything but wealthy. And yeah, pretty surprising he'd let me have it.
  
   
  Also, found it interesting that I was driving Beyer 250ohms (770 and 880) in the store at 0 gain and ~28 on volume setting.
  Guess these really can push tougher cans, which is never a bad thing!
   
  And why have I yet to try docking on my bro's E9, I have no idea.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 all you need to get for that EMI is a sound attenuator / impedance adaptor thing.  you can get one with in-line volume control that's like 3 inches long at Radioshack.  I basically converted my triplefi 10's into a much higher impedance IEM with it.  I read that it changes the EQ a little, but most won't find that to be a bad thing.  Even more than ever I feel like the TF10 with the airplane attenuator sounds like the DT880 250s...  and I pretty much have both at the exact same volume and amp settings, too.  They get driven near the same volume as my DT880s and it's easier to drive at lower volume.


----------



## Siftah

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> IT is for the better but many can't "hear" the changes and I understand. Everyone is different. The changes aren't huge for me portably. the changes are like those thing that always annoy you. like that itch behind your back and with the E17 it takes most of that itch away(song dependant) i Find that sometimes I just want consumer sound though :/


 


  I'd be interested to know which track(s) and passages you can hear a difference on - just for my own interest really. It'd be interesting to know if either "my ears just ain't that good" or whether it's a case of training my ear to be able to hear the difference...
   
  I know there's a certain element of that involved...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





siftah said:


> I'd be interested to know which track(s) and passages you can hear a difference on - just for my own interest really. It'd be interesting to know if either "my ears just ain't that good" or whether it's a case of training my ear to be able to hear the difference...
> 
> I know there's a certain element of that involved...


 

 it's very hard to do something like that. the closest, easiest test that is easily deployable and done that deals with some aspects of this would be something like an 320kbps MP3 or AAC vs Lossless test using foobar ABX to see if you can hear it. Many get 50% meaning ...a guess as in many head fi'ers can't tell the diff, if it's that then I would recommend doing an 128kbps vs 320kbps or something lesser quality vs something higher quality, and make it even more drastic like 128kbps vs lossless if you still can't hear. I did an 320 kbps vs lossless test and expected to get a 50% guessing rate..i actually got 1% amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and felt pretty proud. if you want insturctions on how to do this properly then just ask me,


----------



## Arboginge911

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> it's very hard to do something like that. the closest, easiest test that is easily deployable and done that deals with some aspects of this would be something like an 320kbps MP3 or AAC vs Lossless test using foobar ABX to see if you can hear it. Many get 50% meaning ...a guess as in many head fi'ers can't tell the diff, if it's that then I would recommend doing an 128kbps vs 320kbps or something lesser quality vs something higher quality, and make it even more drastic like 128kbps vs lossless if you still can't hear. I did an 320 kbps vs lossless test and expected to get a 50% guessing rate..i actually got 1% amazing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I would love to know how to do this properly.. Haha


----------



## Siftah

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> it's very hard to do something like that. the closest, easiest test that is easily deployable and done that deals with some aspects of this would be something like an 320kbps MP3 or AAC vs Lossless test using foobar ABX to see if you can hear it. Many get 50% meaning ...a guess as in many head fi'ers can't tell the diff, if it's that then I would recommend doing an 128kbps vs 320kbps or something lesser quality vs something higher quality, and make it even more drastic like 128kbps vs lossless if you still can't hear. I did an 320 kbps vs lossless test and expected to get a 50% guessing rate..i actually got 1% amazing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I can definitely hear the difference between 128 and 160, 192 and above - I know that for certain as it was the purchase of some Shure E2C in-ear phones a few years back which caused me to start to get interested in HiFi stuff. It also caused me to re-rip all my MP3's from the original 128kbps to 192kbps (at the time, I've now gone lossless).
   
  I can certainly hear the difference between my Grado SR325is and the Beyerdynamic DT1350's, though they're both excellent cans.
   
  I haven't noticed any difference between the 320kbps audio I get from Spotify and my lossless ripped audio from CD when played via digital-out to the AUNE at 96khz/24bit, listening with the Grado's. Perhaps a very slightly harsher sound on the higher frequencies, but I doubt I could pick one from the other in a blind listening test.
   
  Just did a quick Google to look for foobar ABX, it's Windows only and I don't run that at the moment, but I'll certainly look to have a play with that and see what results I get - I'm genuinely interested in seeing what my ears actually can detect...


----------



## bowei006

Basically you need a lossless copy of a song, preferable CD ripped by yourself using iTunes or even more preferably using EAX, haivng one on hand would work too. Encode it into wav following the instructions below, and encode it into an ALAC track and then another into 320kbps MP3 using itunes insturctions(#1) below on how to rip. Then follow ABX directions(#2)
  READ EVERYTHING CAREFULLY
   
*1:HOW TO RIP*
  ok. to get your CD's into lossless is pretty easy. first open up itunes. then go to edit and then preferences.(even if you are on a Mac, you know what i mean)  now move to the "general" tab if it isn't already. go down. do you see "When you insert a CD:" ? make sure it is set to "Ask on Import CD" it should be. this sin't very important and you can change it. next. go to "Import settings" it's right next to it. the first dropdown box will say "import using" drop the box down and choose Apple Lossless Encoder. Settings are automatic. and check error correction box  and press OK. now insert your CD intor your drive. leave itunes open. and rip it  now you will see your music. to make sure it's lossless. right click and click get info. it should have apple lossless codec and a high bit rate (like 700-1000kbps). to always see bit rate. go to "view" and then "view options" and check the bit rate box. some prefer to use EAC, but really. ... you don't need to. it's safer as it error checks more thoroughly. but setting it up is hard for most users.. just use itunes. itunes encodes and does it very verywell.
   
  you might notice now or ...just notice one day that when you right click on a song now. you see the option "Create Apple lossless version" this will be here as long as you didn't change the settings. remember the import settings box? despite it seeming to mean just CD ripping. it's a system wide setting for encoding too. SO now you might think!! YEs I CAN make all my songs lossless? don't..DID YOU READ THAT? DONT. yes you COULD make the songs you bought that are AAC 256kbps into lossless with that option but it doesn't mean anything and you shouldnt do it. lossless just means a perfect copy of that original. you will get the same file. except with a larger useless size and ALAC encoding now.ALAC's file end is .m4a some think it's .alac. it's not. .m4a is also the file ending of AAC files. this is because ALAC uses MPEG 4 audio wrapper. MPEG4..so m4a. lolz  don't get confused. .m4a could mean a few file types. not just ALAC. but just telling you.. so yes you could make it lossless. but don't.
   
*2: HOW TO ABX:*
  so now i went over how to turn your CD's into lossless and what lossless is and if you can or should turn your already bought songs into lossless. 
   
  next. is itunes files bad? HECK NO! itunes rips it very very well. heck. most can't tell AAC 256kbps from lossless  AAC 256kbps is also said to be superior to MP3 320kbps. but anyway...so ..what to do? do a test.
  read this thread on the bottom. it's a lossles vs mp3 320 test. i have insturctions on how to do the test below.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/594934/blind-test-lossless-vs-mp3-320
here. download foobar. when downloading use *full* installation.
download the two tracks on the page. drag them into foobar. select both of them. right click-->utilies-->ABX two tracks
if the ABX two tracks does not appear download tthis
http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:How_to_install_a_component
read that.

now do the test. or just read the page. most audiophiles ..can not tell it apart..well not tell it apart. but have a hard time too.. remember to hide results. it messes u up..well it did for me
   
   
  if that is too much for you then here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/594934/blind-test-lossless-vs-mp3-320
   
  the files are already provided, just follow #2 insturctions from above to set it up. Remember to HIDE RESULTS. the first time i did it and din't hide results, i got a normal score, the results severely put a bias and placebo on me making me do some statistical calculations and just randomly chose a track at times. that got me an average score. i do it with results hidden and with patiene the next time and what i thought i was hearing in the diff actually proved true
   
   
  
 foo_abx 1.3.4 report
 foobar2000 v1.1.11
 2012/02/17 14:29:49
  
 File A: K:\A.wav
 File B: K:\B.wav
  
 14:29:49 : Test started.
 14:31:31 : 01/01  50.0%
 14:32:00 : 01/02  75.0%
 14:32:14 : 02/03  50.0%
 14:32:37 : 03/04  31.3%
 14:32:48 : 04/05  18.8%
 14:33:13 : 05/06  10.9%
 14:33:44 : 05/07  22.7%
 14:34:02 : 06/08  14.5%
 14:36:21 : 07/09  9.0%
 14:37:05 : 08/10  5.5%
 14:37:35 : 09/11  3.3%
 14:37:46 : 10/12  1.9%
 14:38:53 : 11/13  1.1%
 14:39:33 : 11/14  2.9%
 14:39:47 : 12/15  1.8%
 14:40:03 : 13/16  1.1%
 14:40:45 : Test finished.
  
  ---------- 
 Total: 13/16 (1.1%)
  
 


   
   
  NEW:
  well when you get on a windows machine i hope you can try it  And yes,...320 vs lossless is extremely hard...very very hard. most head fi'ers fail so don't worry


----------



## musicinmymind

Good tool ABX,
   
  found an youtube video
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt7GyFW4hOI


----------



## Azathoth

The E17's L-R balance feature is a godsend, especially for me (my hearing is skewed towards the right). I think it's the best portable amp that FiiO has ever made in terms of features and sound quality, I'll probably be getting one for myself soon.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





azathoth said:


> The E17's L-R balance feature is a godsend, especially for me (my hearing is skewed towards the right). I think it's the best portable amp that FiiO has ever made in terms of features and sound quality, I'll probably be getting one for myself soon.


 


  Thanks, in one years ago or even before. some user send mail to us ask we can develop an amp with balance feature because they have imbalance problem of their ear. 
   
  Glad to hear that it can help someone because I don't find any other amp with such function.


----------



## btgorman

I ordered the first shipment of the FiiO E17 and have had it since. I just diagnosed the E17 as having background noise. I tried hdmi > tv > toslink, nvidia graphics card hdmi > monitor > coaxial, pc > usb, and all of them display the noise. I have usb power charge off, gain set to 0 and volume set to 22. I tried both my UE Triple Fi 10's and they both have the noise, however, my ATH-M50's do not; in fact I've been using my M50's and not the Triple Fi's, which is why I just recently noticed it.


----------



## kalbee

I've noticed noise too with IEMs, but those were, much like yours, very sensitive IEMs so I didn't think much of it...
  But now that you mention it, I don't know if that was part of their design.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





btgorman said:


> I ordered the first shipment of the FiiO E17 and have had it since. I just diagnosed the E17 as having background noise. I tried hdmi > tv > toslink, nvidia graphics card hdmi > monitor > coaxial, pc > usb, and all of them display the noise. I have *usb power charge off, gain set to 0 and volume set to 22*. I tried both my UE Triple Fi 10's and they both have the noise, however, my ATH-M50's do not; in fact I've been using my M50's and not the Triple Fi's, which is why I just recently noticed it.


 

 I tried the same setup as your but I don't detect any noise on my TF10.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Havent checked this topic in like a week or two...when will this be sold on amazon?  also are there any sites that have this available now?


----------



## DarKu

I also don't detect any noise with my IE8 and IE80.
  BTW here is my review of the E17: http://soundnews.ro/2012/03/11/fiio-e17-mobile-entertainment/
  For me, it's a keeper


----------



## bowei006

I think it has to do with the noise that pops up sometimes. I only get it on 6 to 12 dB where i would need to wait or turn the volume up even more to get rid of noise, that is supposidly in there by the digital volume design. 
   
  Could it be external noise?
   
  Amazon won't get it until we get a steady shipment over to the U.S, it seems fiio is currently focusing on main distro's and side unofficial distro's largely haven't gotten them yet.


----------



## GloryUprising

Anyone have issues with 24/88 files? My unit won't play flac files coded as such over usb at all and will play over toslink but with clicks and drops channels randomly...


----------



## BlancoTheBull

Great review.
  Can't wait to get it. I've been waiting for over a month (so way too long).
   
  Thanks for all the information.
  I wonder how well it will pair with HD 598?


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





darku said:


> I also don't detect any noise with my IE8 and IE80.
> BTW here is my review of the E17: http://soundnews.ro/2012/03/11/fiio-e17-mobile-entertainment/
> For me, it's a keeper


 


  Thanks for this post. I plan on getting the E17 and pair it up with my IE80s.


----------



## Bleether

So its mid march, and the distribution for the second batch was supposed to go out by now. Still no word though. I wonder if they pushed it back to April ?


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would use the airplane attenuator that came with the TF10s.  I find that they can be driven better even at lower volumes with an amp that way.  It's like raising the impedance from 32ohm to 250ohm (at least in my opinion).  They sound pretty much JUST like my DT880 250  
   
  That should take the hiss out.  I think the reason why you're hearing hiss with TF10 and not the M50's is b/c the TF10 are more sensitive.  i could be wrong about that, though.


----------



## Stoney

Nevermind!


----------



## BlancoTheBull

"E17 will be released in the end of March". That's what the people from Fiio told (e-mailed) me.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Yes, we are assembling E17 now. and each day we can manufacture 800 pcs. I think we can ship out all the order before the end of this month.


----------



## HighFiguy

Could someone please explain this to me as if I were a 6 year old kid, i'm a bit confused because I have never owned a FiiO product before, but regarding the paring with the E7/17 with the E9, I heard you have to bypass E7/17's amp (while using it as a DAC) how is this done, I've heard  you have to get a line-out or something of that sort... does it come with any of the above mentioned products or do you have to buy it separately? 

 I'd really appreciate if someone could explain this step by step, it will be my first time using a FiiO product and using my computer as a source.


----------



## musicinmymind

Hmm, that would make more than 2 1/2 months wait........after pre-order


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





highfiguy said:


> Could someone please explain this to me as if I were a 6 year old kid, i'm a bit confused because I have never owned a FiiO product before, but regarding the paring with the E7/17 with the E9, I heard you have to bypass E7/17's amp (while using it as a DAC) how is this done, I've heard  you have to get a line-out or something of that sort... does it come with any of the above mentioned products or do you have to buy it separately?
> 
> I'd really appreciate if someone could explain this step by step, it will be my first time using a FiiO product and using my computer as a source.


 


  Nup, no extra requirements. When docked, the E9 would automatically extract the line out signal from the E7 or E17. You can choose to NOT bypass the E17 amp in order to use the EQ on the E9 output - a new and handy feature of the E17.


----------



## mcee

Does anyone know as to whether the E17 would compliment the JH Audio IEMs? I personally have the JH11s, and am contemplating to buy one of these as an amp and a DAC...


----------



## Stoney

Button location:
   
  I use the E7 and strap it back-to-back with my iPhone.  All buttons are on the side.
  On the E17, are the buttons on the front recessed enough that the silicone strap won't push them?  Are they stiff enough?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> Button location:
> 
> I use the E7 and strap it back-to-back with my iPhone.  All buttons are on the side.
> On the E17, are the buttons on the front recessed enough that the silicone strap won't push them?  Are they stiff enough?


 


  hahah...no. That's the problem. would the strap push them? no. they are good enough that it won't but ...guess what, for me the optimal location band placement puts the band between the volume and power and menu buttons but the band slides a lot so gues guess... when you put it down, you have to remember to put it down ipod faced down or make sure nothing is pressed or else the power button will be pressed and it will turn on.


----------



## Stoney

The curse of so many features -- so many buttons!
   
  I've bought an arrow for basic portable use.  Will sound great. 
  The L17 will be more for my MacBook Pro and HD650s.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> The curse of so many features -- so many buttons!
> 
> I've bought an arrow for basic portable use.  Will sound great.
> The L17 will be more for my MacBook Pro and HD650s.


 


  ^ E17. 
   
  Please note the discussions prior that the E17 (it seems) can not drive HD650's to full potential. But i'm sure you have already read and done your research with that. And then there is also every user's thoughts on what full potential is. Anyway if you want more info asking any of the members prior that have the HD650 and E17 through PM would be great on your part if you want more info. If you are fine, then I hope you enjoy your purchase.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hahah...no. That's the problem. would the strap push them? no. they are good enough that it won't but ...guess what, for me the optimal location band placement puts the band between the volume and power and menu buttons but the band slides a lot so gues guess... when you put it down, you have to remember to put it down ipod faced down or make sure nothing is pressed or else the power button will be pressed and it will turn on.


 


  One of the many reasons I resorted to industrial fasteners.  Basically Velcro where both sides are the plastic prongs.


----------



## Arboginge911

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> One of the many reasons I resorted to industrial fasteners.  Basically Velcro where both sides are the plastic prongs.


 


  That stuff is magic.


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, we are assembling E17 now. and each day we can manufacture 800 pcs. I think we can ship out all the order before the end of this month.


 


  Can you tell us when you plan to start offering the E17 via Amazon? I ask because I'm a prime member and get free shipping and love Amazon in general for online purchases.


----------



## Zulkr9

I just need a portable amp for my zuneHD and also am looking at the e9 for desktop use, can anyone tell me if I should go for this or the E6, I am looking at the e6 because of the size.


----------



## mrAdrian

You have any DACs or a good soundcard? If not, E17 might serve you this extra function, especially when you are considering the E9
  
  Quote: 





zulkr9 said:


> I just need a portable amp for my zuneHD and also am looking at the e9 for desktop use, can anyone tell me if I should go for this or the E6, I am looking at the e6 because of the size.


----------



## Sennhe1ser0fan

My E17 has a loose headphone jack and MP4 nation refuse to fix it. I have tried connecting the two loose points with a screwdriver and it fixes the problem. Would anyone suggest soldering the points together?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





sennhe1ser0fan said:


> My E17 has a loose headphone jack and MP4 nation refuse to fix it. I have tried connecting the two loose points with a screwdriver and it fixes the problem. Would anyone suggest soldering the points together?


 


 You could, but you should have contacted FiiO directly and ask them to intervene before trying to fix it yourself.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





sennhe1ser0fan said:


> My E17 has a loose headphone jack and MP4 nation refuse to fix it. I have tried connecting the two loose points with a screwdriver and it fixes the problem. Would anyone suggest soldering the points together?


 


  1, Please contact us directly through  market@fiio.com.cn , but we will not suggest you soldering the points together. and we can send you some spare part if you can fix it by yourself.
   
  2, Please buy our products from local dealer otherwise it will be a little difficult to get warranty.


----------



## Jack C

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> Can you tell us when you plan to start offering the E17 via Amazon? I ask because I'm a prime member and get free shipping and love Amazon in general for online purchases.


 


  Whether it shows up on Amazon depends on the individual sellers. I believe some of this next coming batch should make it onto Amazon.com


----------



## clarknova

You just made my day  Thank you. Can't wait to buy it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> 1, Please contact us directly through  market@fiio.com.cn , but we will not suggest you soldering the points together. and we can send you some spare part if you can fix it by yourself.
> 
> 2, Please buy our products from local dealer otherwise it will be a little difficult to get warranty.


 

 You send spare parts? Wow that's sweet  Great to know you want to help
   
  2: Sadly I don't EVEN trust a local distributor. Unless it's from Amazon, I have a lot of trust issues. I know many Amazon merchants have their own sties but Amazon provides another layer of protection for me, and most of the time they can swap it much faster and easier than merchants can.
   


  Quote: 





jack c said:


> Whether it shows up on Amazon depends on the individual sellers. I believe some of this next coming batch should make it onto Amazon.com


 

 ..and when's the next actual batch(not FiiO batch as they call it differntly) comming? Will you include that Micca cable with it


----------



## Deltaechoe

I'm also wondering when the batch is scheduled to ship, I've been waiting "patiently" for an e17 so I can start writing a 3rd party driver for android for usb audio out.  Maybe see if I can beat franco to the punch with that one.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





deltaechoe said:


> I'm also wondering when the batch is scheduled to ship, I've been waiting "patiently" for an e17 so I can start writing a 3rd party driver for android for usb audio out.  Maybe see if I can beat franco to the punch with that one.


 


  ....you ?? wow seems legit, even more legit if news spreads that E17 had something to do with it. there was one android distro that had ...weird support for it(usb out through OTG) know anything about that?


----------



## SniperCzar

I'm in the process of wrestling with my Droid2 as well as my HP Touchpad but neither of them is playing nice yet. I hear CM might have support though. If you're at all interested vote here - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614


----------



## bowei006

I would love to use an WM8740 as my DAC....i would absoluteley love that...


----------



## Zulkr9

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> You have any DACs or a good soundcard? If not, E17 might serve you this extra function, especially when you are considering the E9
> 
> 
> I already have an X-fi USB Premium HD and the X-fi titanium, but I need something for my Zune HD as the power is not nearly enough to drive my HD438's to satisfactory levels :S
> So I am wondering whether the E6 would be a good option or the alpen, the alpen is much more expensive I presume :\


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zulkr9 said:


>


 

 you are comparing an Corvette to an Bugatti. the E6 is a starter amp that is well received due to it's price and EQ options and it's brother the E5 even got the thumbs up from NwAVGuy. the E17 is..on the other end of the scale(i have e5 and E17) it depends if you are in an audiophile or i don't care mood. when you are in the later mood it doesn't really matter what amp it is, as long as it has bass boost that's all I care about however when really comparing them. the difference is there. The E17 remember is popular due to a plethora of features, price to performance, inputs, perofmrance, power, dock ability, EQ, OLED screen, and other stuff. the E6 is just an amp. If you like the Zune sound and odn't have any problems and just need more power the e6 or E11 might suit you better, depending on how hard your headphones are too drive, but if you want the features of a portable sound card(i don't think you do) then the E17 is good. the E6 and E11 are pure amps that are well received and loved. i won't go into the E11...it must be THE MOST POPULAR(cheap) amp out in this part of the forums, there's so many posts on it it's not even funny.


----------



## Siftah

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> hahah...no. That's the problem. would the strap push them? no. they are good enough that it won't but ...guess what, for me the optimal location band placement puts the band between the volume and power and menu buttons but the band slides a lot so gues guess... when you put it down, you have to remember to put it down ipod faced down or make sure nothing is pressed or else the power button will be pressed and it will turn on.


 


  There's a hold button on the device, slide it into the hold position and the power button can't be accidentally pressed.


----------



## mrAdrian

As oppose, I was actually going to suggest you the E11, as you do not seem to need the extra DAC function of the E17. A lot of E17's selling point lies into portable, powerful amp, nice DAC, form factor, and all of the inputs.
   
  For you, if you are satisfied by the X-Fi, I don't see you needing a DAC. Then next question you need to ask yourself is do you need the full ability of EQ tweaking that the E17 holds against the E11?
   
  Or, would you want a nice looking E17 / 9 system? Because it looks very nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If you don't need the extra benefits the E17 holds against the E11, but have just that much of spare cash for your upgrade, you can also check out other amps as well.
   
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> you are comparing an Corvette to an Bugatti. the E6 is a starter amp that is well received due to it's price and EQ options and it's brother the E5 even got the thumbs up from NwAVGuy. the E17 is..on the other end of the scale(i have e5 and E17) it depends if you are in an audiophile or i don't care mood. when you are in the later mood it doesn't really matter what amp it is, as long as it has bass boost that's all I care about however when really comparing them. the difference is there. The E17 remember is popular due to a plethora of features, price to performance, inputs, perofmrance, power, dock ability, EQ, OLED screen, and other stuff. the E6 is just an amp. If you like the Zune sound and odn't have any problems and just need more power the e6 or E11 might suit you better, depending on how hard your headphones are too drive, but if you want the features of a portable sound card(i don't think you do) then the E17 is good. the E6 and E11 are pure amps that are well received and loved. i won't go into the E11...it must be THE MOST POPULAR(cheap) amp out in this part of the forums, there's so many posts on it it's not even funny.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





siftah said:


> There's a hold button on the device, slide it into the hold position and the power button can't be accidentally pressed.


 


  I got this device early and have been posting on it  So yeah I know there's the hold button. I just dislike using it.


----------



## DanXbix

I have a problem with my e17 the left channel is no longer working  i have tested aux cable & usb input with the same results. the Balance is definently center as well. any ideas?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





danxbix said:


> I have a problem with my e17 the left channel is no longer working  i have tested aux cable & usb input with the same results. the Balance is definently center as well. any ideas?


 


  Contact the seller for warranty.


----------



## bowei006

^and if you can't or it's hard , contact FiiO directly. Some overseas sellers if you bought from MP4nation make it very hard. Contacting FiiO on head fi would also be a good choice. this is a heavily viewed thread. FiiO would not want bad press.


----------



## DanXbix

cheers have contacted seller and it seems like a dry solder joint on headphone jack as it crackles if you slightly move cable. hopefully they will replace/fix


----------



## bowei006

^that is under one year limited warranty.


----------



## FoxSpirit

Just a question, is there currently any portable digital source to pair with the E17 so you can make a portable rig?? Android is letting me down in using my phone as the source, shame on you google.


----------



## bowei006

foxspirit said:


> Just a question, is there currently any portable digital source to pair with the E17 so you can make a portable rig?? Android is letting me down in using my phone as the source, shame on you google.




After little support from android, nokia also has some spotty support for digital output. Currently best support is ipad with camera connection kit. Keep in mind you also need a powered usb hub if the usb draw of the dac is over 100 or 150mah(forgot which one). Most need this. Some dont, theres a lit on head fi that will tell u. E17 needs powered usb hub with ipad, e7 doesnt.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





foxspirit said:


> Just a question, is there currently any portable digital source to pair with the E17 so you can make a portable rig?? Android is letting me down in using my phone as the source, shame on you google.


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/579365/usb-headphone-amp-with-android-phones-possible
   
  You need a phone that has USB OTG, a special OTG cable (it shorts pin1 and pin2 IIRC), and an OS with the usbaudio.o ALSA driver that Google neglected to include. Pretty sure CM7 supports both USB host and ALSA. I know with some phones they also require the device to be plugged in at boot time.


----------



## Gofre

How significant is the improvement to amping when the E17 is docked with the E9? I've got an E17 on order at the moment while I'll be using on the go and with my Mac, will the E9's amp outdo using the E17 alone? I'm not going to be driving anything particularly power-hungry, just the ATH-M50s and Superlux HD668 B.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Has their been a conclusion to the E17 and the ipad yet? 

 Where the E17 really shines for me is the difference between just using a headphone jack on the Macbook Pro and Usb/E17. (but I just recently learned there is optical out on Macbook Pro) I feel like my E17 dies so fast haha.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Has their been a conclusion to the E17 and the ipad yet?
> 
> Where the E17 really shines for me is the difference between just using a headphone jack on the Macbook Pro and Usb/E17. (but I just recently learned there is optical out on Macbook Pro) I feel like my E17 dies so fast haha.


 


  what do you mean by conclusion? you need an powered USB hub if that is what you mean, and since you are using the E17's WM8740 DAC and it's amps like you would from a computer ..the sound should be very close except this time it's from flash storage(said to sound better)
   
  haha it's ok. i use otpical on my MBP a lot too  MBP is limited to 96KHz by the OS and my PC can do 192KHz through optical(i had probelms before..not anymore   )
   
  the amp section with use wtih ipod is ok. not really omg or anything, it has an EQ which is proabbly the biggest idfference with my ipod...however when i use the Wolfson. that's the changing point.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> what do you mean by conclusion? you need an powered USB hub if that is what you mean, and since you are using the E17's WM8740 DAC and it's amps like you would from a computer ..the sound should be very close except this time it's from flash storage(said to sound better)
> 
> haha it's ok. i use otpical on my MBP a lot too  MBP is limited to 96KHz by the OS and my PC can do 192KHz through optical(i had probelms before..not anymore   )
> 
> the amp section with use wtih ipod is ok. not really omg or anything, it has an EQ which is proabbly the biggest idfference with my ipod...however when i use the Wolfson. that's the changing point.


 
  So would this work for the E17? http://www.amazon.com/Charging-Charger-Adapter-Apple-iPad2/dp/B0042LF23I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1332110392&sr=8-3

 I really don't know which to purchase for cheap. Since I can't rockbox my Nano 4g I really want to get the Ipad to work,


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> So would this work for the E17? http://www.amazon.com/Charging-Charger-Adapter-Apple-iPad2/dp/B0042LF23I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1332110392&sr=8-3
> 
> I really don't know which to purchase for cheap. Since I can't rockbox my Nano 4g I really want to get the Ipad to work,


 
  it's a hit and miss with these. you could try though. do you already have E17. if so then you could try a few and see what works and then report back..but it's up to you


----------



## cheungtsw

Couple of comments & suggestions:
   
  1. It is quite easy to scratch
  2. The "sleep" function should count down when there is no signal pass thru it.
  3.  I have a strange observation, I use the usb with my laptop.  The DAC is fully charged before hand.  After about 1hr of use, the "power button" turns to purple and it is charging the battery. 
   
  btw, is the 3.5mm cable same quality as L8?


----------



## ClieOS

1. It is as easy to scratch as any anodized aluminum housing, which isn't scratch proof.
   
  2. That would be an automated shutdown, not a sleep function.
   
  3. Normal. The battery should be automatically charged when it drops to certain level. It is not designed to be fully empty before recharging. If the USB port on the laptop doesn't supply enough current (some only supply a bare minimum of 100mA while standard USB can go from 500mA to 1A), you will eat into the E17's internal battery.
   
  The stock 3.5mm cable isn't L8. L8 uses PCOCC-A cable from Oyaide Japan, which should have marking on it and thicker than normal cable.


----------



## Jack C

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ..and when's the next actual batch(not FiiO batch as they call it differntly) comming? Will you include that Micca cable with it


 

 I was referring to the next batch that we are expecting to receive later this month. We will make it available both with and without the Micca cable.


----------



## Stevierg

I received a reply from Fiio about the second batch of E17s. They expect them to be ready within the next 10 days.


----------



## Stevierg

Quote: 





jack c said:


> I was referring to the next batch that we are expecting to receive later this month. We will make it available both with and without the Micca cable.


 


  Hey Jack, will you be doing an E9 and E17 bundle like you did for the E9/E7?


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If the USB port on the laptop doesn't supply enough current (some only supply a bare minimum of 100mA while standard USB can go from 500mA to 1A), you will eat into the E17's internal battery.
> 
> The stock 3.5mm cable isn't L8. L8 uses PCOCC-A cable from Oyaide Japan, which should have marking on it and thicker than normal cable.


 
  Dumb question: any definitive way to find out how much current your USB port is supplying? on a laptop, say.
   
  The cable used in L9/L8 is very good but I find the connection to still be pretty weak. Not past 1.5 weeks I already found mine to clip right signal when the angled end is even slightly pressed down. Helped a little bit by trying to push the cable deeper into the connector end but... really doesn't solve much. Used it completely within design purposes and angles, so it was quite a disappointment.
  Barely used the stock patch cable so can't say much about it.


----------



## bowei006

^I have L9 and that doesn't happen to me, i guess it may be differnt devices. because the LOD is very loose fitting and cuts out when i press on it when it's attached to my ipod touch2G, however that's because the dock connector of my 2G is loose, it's tight and actually a bit tricky at times to get it into my 4S and other iphones my family has so it may just be your jack. who knows( be it that you have the dual end 3.5mm L8 or LOD L9)


----------



## kalbee

Pretty sure mine is just a lemon. Still sux cause even if I want to get it warrantied, if even possible, I still have to send it to the next province since there's no dealer locally. Not the end of the world, though they certainly won't last much longer. The last pair of earphones I had cable problems only occurred after 4 years of daily use; I do treat my cables pretty well.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Dumb question: any definitive way to find out how much current your USB port is supplying? on a laptop, say.


 

 You can measure the output on a multimeter. It won't be 100% accurate, but at least it will give you some idea.


----------



## Calintz

Hello Guys, I'm new here, But I'd like to learn a lot from you guys. Please bear with me if my question sounds dumb. 
   
  I own a Yuin PK1 and I'm considering to buy the Fiio E17 since I heard the sound will improve if I amped them. Also, I think the DAC on E17 is a very nice addition since I spend quite a lot of time in front of my computer. So, Will it be enough to power the PK1 ? Oh, and I use Sansa Clip+ as DAP, do you guys think it'll be a good synergy between them ? Thanks.


----------



## ClieOS

E17 should drive PK1 without any problem. Synergy wise, I will say there is nothing wrong pairing Clip+ with E17 and PK1.


----------



## kamikaziH2Omln

Like Calintz I'm getting an amp for my headphones which are Klipsch Mode M40's. I also spend a good amount of time in front of my computer as well. Would this be appropriate for my needs?
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## microsound

Thanks for the great review and recommendation. This one is officially on my list to check out.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





microsound said:


> Thanks for the great review and recommendation. This one is officially on my list to check out.


 


 *"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*


----------



## jwusoccer

Does anyone have an estimate of when the miccastore will be getting their next shipment. I would rather buy from a dealer in the US for warranty purposes. Also, how big will the next batch be.. because the last one sold out in less than 30 minutes. I was going to order one, but before i could, they were out of stock.


----------



## bowei006

Read the last page or somethinf, im on mobile, but micca commented here(shows they read our stuff) and said something about receiving end o month i think


----------



## faideelah

Anyone know when the E17 will show up on Amazon? I got some Amazon credit that I want to use towards this.


----------



## bowei006

Miccas last few posts already told or said it. Maybe and just maybe during the next batch they receive end of month(doesnt mean sale, just means they receieve it but keep in mind they sell it after they receive it inconsistently) and some might make it on amazon


----------



## Necrontyr

I've just purchased my e17 from mp4Nation, a company in HK who specialize in fiio products, they said their shipment is expected by the end of the month also, I'm so freaking excited to receive my new amp, it plus a pair of HifiMan HE-400's and I wont need any new audio gear till i'm an old man


----------



## Bonobo Loco

Is this amp good enough to run cans in the range of 250-300 ohms like the Beyer DT880-300 or Senn hd650? Thanks


----------



## kalbee

Runs DT770/880@250ohms no sweat, gain@0, volume@~34
Still lots of juice. Never tried HD650


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





necrontyr said:


> I've just purchased my e17 from mp4Nation, a company in HK who specialize in fiio products, they said their shipment is expected by the end of the month also, I'm so freaking excited to receive my new amp, it plus a pair of HifiMan HE-400's and I wont need any new audio gear till i'm an old man


 

 ....that's what they all said..until upgradeitis hits..  basically checking and going on head fi moves upgrade itis, you will feel the need to know more about audio and..head fi just has this tune and you see it..but you try to avoid it. it works..until it gets bad,...and then it hits hard


----------



## SoundDreamer

Enjoying my E17 immensely. The sound has continued to improve for me, up to around 3 weeks. This unit is smooth as a baby's bottom and has very good separation.
   
  There are two problems I've experienced thus far.
   
  I had to end up shutting off the usb battery charger because I've noticed that the battery is constantly on charge mode. It will shut down for a while but starts to charge after a short time. This is when I have the unit on or off while plugged into the usb port. I can shut it off, unplug it from usb and let it sit there for an hour, come back, and it's charging again. I do not use this unit as a portable, only plugged into my Toshiba notebook for better sound quality than what I'm receiving with the internal sound card.
   
  The other problem I experience (way too often) is a constant dropout that starts on the left channel. then seems to alternate between both left & right. I have to end up unplugging the unit from usb several times to get it to go away. Yes, I've tried a different usb cable.
   
  If anyone has any troubleshooting ideas on either of these problems I'm experiencing, I'm all ears (no pun intended).


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> The other problem I experience (way too often) is a constant dropout that starts on the left channel. then seems to alternate between both left & right. I have to end up unplugging the unit from usb several times to get it to go away. Yes, I've tried a different usb cable.
> 
> If anyone has any troubleshooting ideas on either of these problems I'm experiencing, I'm all ears (no pun intended).


 
  Doesn't sound right. Do you experience the same thing on another PC?


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





necrontyr said:


> I've just purchased my e17 from mp4Nation, a company in HK who specialize in fiio products, they said their shipment is expected by the end of the month also, I'm so freaking excited to receive my new amp, it plus a pair of HifiMan HE-400's and I* wont need any new audio gear till i'm an old man *


 

 I said that at least 10-12 times in my life
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It was never true...


----------



## mrAdrian

I must not need any new audio gear till i'm an old man


----------



## bowei006

@sounddreamer

The usb charge thing i get too. Its not a problem nor is it abnormal for me

I have no drops here or any channel problems here. I have and do use OPT, AUX, and USB in very often on this device


----------



## Necrontyr

I did it, I bought them  Hifiman He-400's to pair with my Alpen E17, 400 USD holy hell I'm gonna get good use out of them )))


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Doesn't sound right. Do you experience the same thing on another PC?


 

 Don't have another PC to test on. I'm starting to get the channel loss more frequently from just a few days ago.
   


  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @sounddreamer
> The usb charge thing i get too. Its not a problem nor is it abnormal for me
> I have no drops here or any channel problems here. I have and do use OPT, AUX, and USB in very often on this device


 

 I will try and test the digital out to see (hear) if I have a problem there.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> Don't have another PC to test on. I'm starting to get the channel loss more frequently from just a few days ago.
> 
> 
> I will try and test the digital out to see (hear) if I have a problem there.


 
  try that..but..idk, maybe try different computers and if it still happens see if you can get a RMA ..hopefully you bought it from micca.
   
  but grreeat that you like the E17, you almost went to the other side for a while


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> try that..but..idk, maybe try different computers and if it still happens see if you can get a RMA ..hopefully you bought it from micca.


 

 That's not going to happen. I'm listening to music now with no problems. So, I'll just say it's my notebook and not the E17.
   
  I wanted to state that while listening to music, it's like hearing my collection all over again. I thought I had a pretty good main system but I'm hearing instruments like I've never heard before. A good way to describe it, is like being closer to the music. Isn't that what we're all trying to achieve?


----------



## Parall3l

According to the Mp4Nation facebook update, the pre-ordered E17s will be shipped next week. Cool


----------



## weitn

Using the E17 with HD650 in the office now. Loving it.


----------



## Stevierg

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Using the E17 with HD650 in the office now. Loving it.


 


  Do you think the HD650s would benefit from being hooked up to an E9 also or does the E17 do well enough?


----------



## bowei006

@sounddreamers reaction: take away my e17 for a few weeks? NOOO MINE!

^wow a schiit and e17. Are u using e17 as dedicated dac through line out to the schiit? How is it that way

^the e9 and e17 is a general question so i should say that the use of the e9 is to drive headphones. If u have enough power, then u dont need it(yet unless u get hard to drive cans)

@parallel haha yeah theres never too much bass. Gonna reveive my fun cans the xb500 today. Gonna hook up my e17 to computer through optical at 192KHz not that it matters as my only track that goes up that high isnt bassy and i doubt i can hear a diff but hey PRETTY NUMBERS. And gonna rock some bass with some serious eq on my e17  of course im not gonna go hard yet , will do an 30hr burn in before i start pushing some muddy, boomy delicious wub wub wub. Im on my phone, sorry for my terrible way if spelling and grammar that i can see you dont like.


----------



## autoexec

i can't really read all the pages in this thread so sorry if this question was already discussed many times.. :| A remember reading ClieOS saying that on usb in, max gain is 6db.. but I can use the 12db when connected to my laptop as a DAC.. Can anyone clarify that? Thank you very much.

And anothet one.. Is 0 gain sounds better than 12db gain with the same volume?? I dunno really of it's psychological but 6db sounds the best for me.. Is there really a difference on SQ or that gain should only be used if you really need more volume?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> i can't really read all the pages in this thread so sorry if this question was already discussed many times.. :| A remember reading ClieOS saying that on usb in, max gain is 6db.. but I can use the 12db when connected to my laptop as a DAC.. Can anyone clarify that? Thank you very much.
> And anothet one.. Is 0 gain sounds better than 12db gain with the same volume?? I dunno really of it's psychological but 6db sounds the best for me.. Is there really a difference on SQ or that gain should only be used if you really need more volume?


 

 Lower gain should be theoretically better, since more gain means worsen SNR.
   
  Anyway, you are no supposed to be able to use 12dB gain on USB-in because it might be too much for the amp and could clip the signal. If you turn the amp on in USB mode, you will find the 12dB gain disabled. But I find a way to trick the system - If you select AUX-in and set the gain at 12dB, then switch to USB-in, the amp seems to 'forget' about the 12dB restriction.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Lower gain should be theoretically better, since more gain means worsen SNR.
> 
> Anyway, you are no supposed to be able to use 12dB gain on USB-in because it might be too much for the amp and could clip the signal. If you turn the amp on in USB mode, you will find the 12dB gain disabled. But I find a way to trick the system - If you select AUX-in and set the gain at 12dB, then switch to USB-in, the amp seems to 'forget' about the 12dB restriction.


 

 How long did you played with your e17 to get into GODMODE?


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





stevierg said:


> Do you think the HD650s would benefit from being hooked up to an E9 also or does the E17 do well enough?


 


  You can use amp other than E9, by adding L7.
  E9 is not the only option.
   
  I think HD650 need a more powerful amp.


----------



## mrAdrian

Depends are you on a tight budget. Amp suggestions for the HD650 goes limitless
  
  Quote: 





duyu said:


> You can use amp other than E9, by adding L7.
> E9 is not the only option.
> 
> I think HD650 need a more powerful amp.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> How long did you played with your e17 to get into GODMODE?


 
   
  To enable GODMODE, press these keys within 3 seconds: "Power + V+ + V+ + Menu + V- + Input + V- + Input V- + V+ + Hold + Menu + Menu + Hold + Input + Power + All buttons"


----------



## bowei006

The correct buttons is : Up,Up,Down,Down,Left,Right,Left,Right,B,A
   
  I don't think I will ever need to use godmode though as I use it with optical.


----------



## ertai

Hi ClieOS and fellow Head-fiers 
   
  in your opinion, do you think E17 kills the Digizoid ZO2 because of its EQ features for both Bass and Treble?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





ertai said:


> Hi ClieOS and fellow Head-fiers
> 
> in your opinion, do you think E17 kills the Digizoid ZO2 because of its EQ features for both Bass and Treble?


 


  I'll say ZO2.3's bass sounds a little bit more fun for me. E17's bass boost has more control but also lose some of the fun factor. Of course ZO2.3 doesn't has any treble EQ to play with. Overall, I'll say E17, with EQ included and all, is better than ZO2.3.


----------



## blastomorpha

Hi everyone.
 With a budget of max 200€ I'm looking for a simple solution to be able to listen to all my audio sources with my AKG K240 MKII (55Ohm).
 I have all my cds ripped in flac format and I'd like play them with my Samsung N510 netbook (or even my old Asus eeePC 900) with foobar/WinAMp with the right plugins from an USB drive. I also have an iPad1 with Capriccio installed to play flac. With these devices I'd like to play mp3s also.
  I also have an old Sanyo Plus Q25 turntable (waiting for a new needle) for my little vinyl collection with a classic L/R output.
  Lately I've made some experiments with my Playstation2 digital/optical output into a Creative Extigy USB Soundblaster for cd playback; I have to say that I like the console more than my old crappy portable for cd playback.
  I created a thread about this and a user suggested my the combination on Fiio D3+D5+E11+L cable for the iPad, but I discovered the E17 that looks like having everything I need all in one; another option could be the TubeMagic D1 by Maverick Audio, but it seems beyond my budget.
  Can anyone make a comparison? In few words, I need something like USB(dac)/turntable/optical/iPad --> DAC/AMP --> K240.
  I listen to almost every genre of music, from post-bop to swedish death metal


----------



## daveisthemusic

Hi guys, this is my first post here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I noticed the part about sampling rate mentioned in the review and I'm just gutted that my laptop doesn't have SPDIF to use with the E17 for 192khz support. I know there will always be a debate about 96 vs (the unnecessary for many) 192 sampling rates but as a lifelong musician I have this wonderful sensation when listening in 192khz of almost being able to see the performers fingers moving on the instruments. Even for 16/44.1 recordings, listening in 192khz feels much more measured in pace, with more oomph to each note, and I just feel incredibly connected and 'locked in' to the music. 96 for me feels a lot faster, almost as if the pace of the music is squashed and flowing through me instead of that sensation of feeling as if I can analyze or 'see' the performance as I listen.
   
  Right now I'm listening to just my laptop's headphone output with the hd25's. I was reading a lot of this thread yesterday and understanding the importance of getting a DAC for the increase in SQ when listening with a laptop - and that it would also prepare me nicely for when I can afford the hd650's. However, although the SQ may be significantly better... I'm worried I'm goiing to prefer the almost visual feedback I get from listening to music at 192khz. So I'm just stumped as to whether it's better or not in my case to jump on board for this obviously great product as my blasted laptop doesn't have an optical-out port.
   
   
  Before I anger anyone I will reiterate that it's not a difference in sound quality that I'm noticing, simply as a musician I do believe my ears to be sensitive to the "feel" and pace of music, and very simply, rather than noticing massive differences in SQ I am noticing improvements in my response and enjoyment of the music at 192khz. (Very new to hifi SQ here, with my HD25's being my first ever purchase so far). 
   
   
  Quote: 





> *Bit Depth and Sampling Rate*
> Limited by its USB receiver, Alpen only works up to 24bits / 96kHz in USB mode. For the optical and coax input, you will get the full 24bits / 192kHz via SPDIF. For commercial CD and iTune music, resolution shouldn’t be much of any concern since they are all in the good old 16bits / 44.1kHz format.  While it always seems to be better to get higher bit depth and sampling rate, any properly mastered album should show very little difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 (note: ‘properly mastered’ is the key words here). The issue that most 24/192 music tend to sound better has more to do with either better mastering or hardware based difference (filtering and such). The knowledge of bit depth and sampling rate go way beyond the scope of this review and I am of no master on the subject to really discuss them. The key is not to be too obsessed about them. There are benefit for higher bit depth and sampling rate, but they are not miracle cure and don’t make music better by themselves.  For most practical purpose, 24/96 is already well beyond what you need.


----------



## bowei006

I won't troll you or say 96 this or that. Hey ignorance is bliss. I would rather have and love placebo than not. It just makes life a bit more brighter  I will just say that to know for sure, an ABX of course will need to be done with an DAC that allows up to 192KHz sampling first and a connection that does it with one instance of the track in 192KHz and the other in 44.1KHz..and then let the foobar ABX start  and that's all I will say. I would also ask for others to be kind and not grill the guy. This isn't the "sound science" section where we do grill him 
   
  Well if you read through this thread you will know that there are probably some problems with enough power for HD650 with E17. It seems that's a needy headphone.
   
  With a laptop that is a bummer sadly. You can only use USB and even then USB is limited to 6dB gain unless you turn on god mode(see joke on last page on how to turn on god mode) so if you want more volume with your computer, you will be limited. Well not really but FiiO disabled it so it won't clip for a reason.
   
  Did you have a question?
   
  The E17 has been and still is hard to get a hold on. A few more weeks


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Did you have a question?


 
   
  He didn't have a question in as much as he had an answer. With the few 192 kHz recordings I have, I agree with him that there's something about the sound of the music over 96 kHz. I have tons of 24 bit 96 kHz recordings and can live with that. As far as using his future headphones (HD650) with the E17 alone, only he can be the judge of it's sound quality. If I were about to upgrade to that headphone, I'd either do a combination headphone dac or go with something else altogether.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> He didn't have a question in as much as he had an answer. With the few 192 kHz recordings I have, I agree with him that there's something about the sound of the music over 96 kHz. I have tons of 24 bit 96 kHz recordings and can live with that. As far as using his future headphones (HD650) with the E17 alone, only he can be the judge of it's sound quality. If I were about to upgrade to that headphone, I'd either do a combination headphone dac or go with something else altogether.


 


  I also feel like there is something there, but I have yet to test so I am calling it placebo right now and won't become the laughing stock of head-fi so I usually dont do those questions on Sampling Rate. I did do one on 320kbps vs Lossless and passed with flying colors by being able to tell them apart. Sampling rate?....that will be much harder.


----------



## daveisthemusic

Thanks for the informative replies guys and of course, I don't even have the product to be able to test my enjoyment E17 + 96khz versus the laptop on 192...! so admittedly, I think perhaps I let my initial disappointment at the discovery get the better of me. 
   
  I really don't mean to derail the thread - it was more an observation than a question I guess. Most of my E17 questions were answered in that youtube vid i found that you did bowei,,! (nice work with that!)
   
  I suppose I posted because I've been reading most of this thread and getting myself hyped, then on changing to 96khz in windows control panel I found that I really wasn't enjoying my music as much. It could just be a placebo (cheerful thoughts on that), but for example, on 96khz I find that my mind can start to wander a little with things that I listen to a lot, whereas with 192khz I'm more mesmerised, it just feels more visceral to me.
   
  Anyway, thanks for indulging little old me and let's get back on topic!


----------



## daveisthemusic

sounddreamer - when you say combination headphone dac for 650's, what do you mean exactly? could you give me a couple examples? 
   
   
  I've seen in this thread people saying e17 should be sufficient to drive the 650's as a basic starter (review post states anything BEYOND 300 ohms will be a problem) and I'm just on the very bottom rung of a very tall ladder at the moment.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





daveisthemusic said:


> Thanks for the informative replies guys and of course, I don't even have the product to be able to test my enjoyment E17 + 96khz versus the laptop on 192...! so admittedly, I think perhaps I let my initial disappointment at the discovery get the better of me.
> 
> I really don't mean to derail the thread - it was more an observation than a question I guess. Most of my E17 questions were answered in that youtube vid i found that you did bowei,,! (nice work with that!)
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, which video of mine did you find was best? The unboxing? mini review/impressions? or the Complete how to use guide?(i give you lulz if you watched that complete guide..i did so ...fricking much in that one) I type and can get my thoughts past a lot better in words than in video. So... I may seem newbish at times in those video's. I am also young so many older audiophile's that are starting out may go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The only one's that take me seriously and are head-fi'ers are the one's that actually check out my head-fi account i like to in my E17 video's 
   
  Auxiliary 96KHz and 192KHz is differnt from getting it out of S/PDIF :/ 
   
  Visceral? Well. Just because your settings are on 192KHz doesn't mean the song jut becomes it. If your songs are 44.1KHz, there won't be a difference. Your DAC should be downsampling that. but hey, im not an expert in the sampling rate game. My expertise are elsewhere.
   
  Back on topic? The topic really is just help anybody that happens by this thread and has questions. And.. I ..don't think you had one..


----------



## daveisthemusic

Ok. If at 44.1khz there's no difference at all then that's a relief to hear, because I'm listening to the same piano track right now and swapping between 96 and 192 and honestly, there really is. It must be a problem with my laptop's soundcard, perhaps it's supposed to drive the headphones better at 192khz, perhaps it's just broken. Which makes me think it would be an even better idea than originally thought to get an E17, whack on "god mode" as you kindly suggested, and bypass it altogether.
   
  Your mini review/impressions came up when i searched fiio e17 on youtube, I'll go check out the complete guide now. And if I were you I wouldn't give a hoot to what others think, you're taking the time to make and upload these videos to inform people like me, you obviously care about this stuff and that's the only thing that matters. 
   
  Also, I have a question for you: Can you please stop saying that I didn't have a question...? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Thanks, which video of mine did you find was best? The unboxing? mini review/impressions? or the Complete how to use guide?(i give you lulz if you watched that complete guide..i did so ...fricking much in that one) I type and can get my thoughts past a lot better in words than in video. So... I may seem newbish at times in those video's. I am also young so many older audiophile's that are starting out may go
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bowei006

Thanks and sorry.

I do too many threads a people a day that I keep forgetting so i add things into my posts to serve as mental reminders.


----------



## daveisthemusic

Haha no worries - enjoyed the vid, very thorough and much better in hd too. Good job, subscribed ya!


----------



## nightgost

Is it possible to connect a MIC or GUITAR through spdif in or aux in?
   
  the amp will work as gain/pre-amp leading through headphone out?
   
  can i get the signal in the computer?
   
  Thanks, i have an pre order on mp4nations taking forever
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from 02/06/2012


----------



## bowei006

No. This is for stereo audio out.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





nightgost said:


> Is it possible to connect a MIC or GUITAR through spdif in or aux in?
> 
> the amp will work as gain/pre-amp leading through headphone out?
> 
> ...


 
   
  you can use E17 to boost any analog signal which input to the aux in, but E17 will not be the best amp for MIC and Guitar .  BTW, we will release our first guitar headphone amp after 4 months.


----------



## tyranuus

Bah had to reregister to post this as my old account appears to have gone walkies!!
   
  Anyways, hopefully I shall be joining the party come early April!
  I've been on the lookout for a more desktop based DAC to replace my Total Bithead, as I now tend to be more stationary than out and about, and the Total Bithead isn't really aimed at dealing with my speakers. Originally I was looking at the Zero DAC, but this seems to review as better, and only cost me about another £30 for the pairing as a I got a good deal 
   
  I've ordered the E17 with the E9 Dock (which I might upgrade to the E19 when it arrives if it turns out to be worthwhile) as it seems to offer me the best of both worlds; I can connect the lineout from the E9 to my speakers, and use the E19 solo when I'm out and about, leaving it in the dock the rest of the time as a soundcard for my PC.
   
  Hopefully it'll be a nice step up, especially as my faithful bithead is 'only' 16/48 capable, my headphones aren't too hard to drive, but at least I know I'll be getting the best from them (Currently have Senn HD280Pros, Goldring DR150s and some Senn IE7s IEMs)


----------



## blastomorpha

Quote: 





blastomorpha said:


> Hi everyone.
> With a budget of max 200€ I'm looking for a simple solution to be able to listen to all my audio sources with my AKG K240 MKII (55Ohm).
> I have all my cds ripped in flac format and I'd like play them with my Samsung N510 netbook (or even my old Asus eeePC 900) with foobar/WinAMp with the right plugins from an USB drive. I also have an iPad1 with Capriccio installed to play flac. With these devices I'd like to play mp3s also.
> I also have an old Sanyo Plus Q25 turntable (waiting for a new needle) for my little vinyl collection with a classic L/R output.
> ...


 


  Sorry for the bump guys, but my post was the last of the previous page, which sometimes no one reads... and I'd like to make a final decision soon 
 Let me add this after reading the last posts about the 24bits/192khz support. As i said, I'm now using my PS2 as cd player by its digital out into the Extigy, the connectors are toslink so I'd need an adapter for the E17, right? Are these included in the package, if it makes any sense about using a PS2 as cd player with the E17 or anything else...
   
  EDIT: adaptors are included I see.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





daveisthemusic said:


> sounddreamer - when you say combination headphone dac for 650's, what do you mean exactly? could you give me a couple examples?


 
   
  I was really only thinking of a E17/E9 combination.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> you can use E17 to boost any analog signal which input to the aux in, but E17 will not be the best amp for MIC and Guitar .  BTW, we will release our first guitar headphone amp after 4 months.


 

 I thought of that, but i felt the E17 wasn't exactly good for those purposes
   
  GUYS..new scoop. E19 and Guitar headphone amp? \!!!!!
   


  Quote: 





tyranuus said:


> Bah had to reregister to post this as my old account appears to have gone walkies!!
> 
> Anyways, hopefully I shall be joining the party come early April!
> I've been on the lookout for a more desktop based DAC to replace my Total Bithead, as I now tend to be more stationary than out and about, and the Total Bithead isn't really aimed at dealing with my speakers. Originally I was looking at the Zero DAC, but this seems to review as better, and only cost me about another £30 for the pairing as a I got a good deal
> ...


 

 Hope you like it
   


  Quote: 





blastomorpha said:


> Sorry for the bump guys, but my post was the last of the previous page, which sometimes no one reads... and I'd like to make a final decision soon
> Let me add this after reading the last posts about the 24bits/192khz support. As i said, I'm now using my PS2 as cd player by its digital out into the Extigy, the connectors are toslink so I'd need an adapter for the E17, right? Are these included in the package, if it makes any sense about using a PS2 as cd player with the E17 or anything else...
> 
> EDIT: adaptors are included I see.


 
  The E17 comes with an Toslink to mini toslink adapter. Just that. google it for a picture. 
   
  You can use the PS2 if you want. I don't see a fault. Of course i don't know if there is something that audiophiles don't like about it
   

 i've been intruding too much on this thread yet again. I'll back off for some time again.


----------



## daveisthemusic

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> I was really only thinking of a E17/E9 combination.


 

 Ah, ok cheers. By the time I do own both the e17 & 650's, hopefully (probably) the e19 will be out!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





daveisthemusic said:


> Ah, ok cheers. By the time I do own both the e17 & 650's, hopefully (probably) the e19 will be out!


 


  It's said to be end of this year. There is very little info on how many engineers or whatever FiiO has or how they do things. So I don't know if their guitar amp will hurt or delay the E19 and then their's also the fact that FiiO HAD plans for a PMP but cancelled it. Which means that that is still on the drawing board not including their recent expansion into cases and also them being a large LOD and audiophile cable maker. So at the earliest the E19 may be out at the end of this year.


----------



## autoexec

Another question guys, forgive me again if this one's asked before but this is really a long thread, and I'm reading every pages whenever I get free time.
  So here it is. Whenever I boot the E17 to USB input, and connected to my Dell Inspiron laptop, I still can select 12db in the gain setting. But after booting it displays a message "LOCKED" for like half-second and then everything seems normal after that. Do you think mine have a software or firmware problem? I haven't updated yet my FW version is F00LA17EN.
   
  My second question is, can this be charged to an AC outlet using usb adapter (i.e. capdase)? The reason I'm asking is because I charged it using the capdase adapter and after 4 hours it is still charging, but the red LED is weak... The red LED should be turned of when battery is full right? Assuming the E17 is turned off. I remember charging it the first time from my laptop and after 2+ hours the red LED turned off. Do you think the capdase is not good for the E17? I'm sure it doesn't give less power because when I use it to charge my J3 it just takes less than 2 hours and like 4 hours thru my laptop. Should the red LED be turned off when battery is full? Is the weak red LED normal if the battery is soon to be full? Anybody experience weak red LED? thanks!


----------



## bowei006

Whenever mine connects to an active input it says the same thing. I would say its intentional

Fiio has confirmed and its also common sense that it works. However fiio and common sense dictates to use a good usb adapter charger like a legit apple one.
Its hard to compare j3 charge to this. A slower charge is better for battery but a too small one isnt good either. When charging i get a solid red color. Try plugging into laptop. If ur weak red goes solid then i would refrain from using the cap... Whatever and get another alternative portable charger.

Ur first question was probably thought to have been intentional by most including me so its never been asked

Ur second one has been asked before - and ive answered 2 of them i think

I dont expecy most to fish this thread . I was here since the beginning so i have and boy.. Its long


----------



## ClieOS

autoexec said:


> Another question guys, forgive me again if this one's asked before but this is really a long thread, and I'm reading every pages whenever I get free time.
> So here it is. Whenever I boot the E17 to USB input, and connected to my Dell Inspiron laptop, I still can select 12db in the gain setting. But after booting it displays a message "LOCKED" for like half-second and then everything seems normal after that. Do you think mine have a software or firmware problem? I haven't updated yet my FW version is F00LA17EN.




Normal, nothing to worry about.



autoexec said:


> My second question is, can this be charged to an AC outlet using usb adapter (i.e. capdase)? The reason I'm asking is because I charged it using the capdase adapter and after 4 hours it is still charging, but the red LED is weak... The red LED should be turned of when battery is full right? Assuming the E17 is turned off. I remember charging it the first time from my laptop and after 2+ hours the red LED turned off. Do you think the capdase is not good for the E17? I'm sure it doesn't give less power because when I use it to charge my J3 it just takes less than 2 hours and like 4 hours thru my laptop. Should the red LED be turned off when battery is full? Is the weak red LED normal if the battery is soon to be full? Anybody experience weak red LED? thanks!




Yes, you can charge E17 with an USB adapter. However, it dependa on the quality of the USB adapter.. You should get USB adapter with minimum 500mA output, 1A is even better..


----------



## autoexec

Thanks for the answer. However, it has strong red LED when I first plugged it in to the capdase, then after like 4 hours it became weak. I thought maybe it will become weak when it is soon to be full. It is also strong when I first charged it in my laptop but I didn't watched it going to full batt as I have left it like less than 3 hours. Have you noticed the transition from the charging state to the full batt state? I know my capdase is a good charger I can feel when a charger is cheap and doesn't give good current. I use it on my ipod touch/nano/J3/N2 and the charging time is really normal. Maybe the red LED will become weak before it is actually turned off? I disconnected it though because I'm kinda scared that it may mess up the battery if that isn't normal, I got scared that it's charging 4+ hours and the red LED is still not powered off though weak.. Thanks!


 And also this, I only get 48K/16-bit when USB connected to my laptop as DAC. Is that normal? :| Thank you very much bro!


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Normal, nothing to worry about.
> Yes, you can charge E17 with an USB adapter. However, it dependa on the quality of the USB adapter.. You should get USB adapter with minimum 500mA output, 1A is even better..


 


  Thanks for answering... But how about the thing you said that it is only up to 6db gain when in USB mode? Do you think mine has restriction problem?
  Okay I will check that out, sucks I didn't bring the charger here in office. lol.


----------



## ClieOS

autoexec said:


> Thanks for answering... But how about the thing you said that it is only up to 6db gain when in USB mode? Do you think mine has restriction problem?
> Okay I will check that out, sucks I didn't bring the charger here in office. lol.




No. it is supposed to limit 6dB gain, but there seems to be some glitch in the firmware that, in some situation, will allow the gain to stay at 12dB.

Never pay much attention of the strength of the LED light, so I can't say for sure. Most of the time, I think the red LED will just turn off when my E17 has reached a full charge.


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Lower gain should be theoretically better, since more gain means worsen SNR.
> 
> Anyway, you are no supposed to be able to use 12dB gain on USB-in because it might be too much for the amp and could clip the signal. If you turn the amp on in USB mode, you will find the 12dB gain disabled. But I find a way to trick the system - If you select AUX-in and set the gain at 12dB, then switch to USB-in, the amp seems to 'forget' about the 12dB restriction.


 
   
  I was thinking that it would be like maxing the vol. out of the J3 to use on the headphones when using 0 gain, (loud but lacks body and some details). When I use 6db gain, I feel I'm hearing things better, more "omph" in bass but never exaggerated though. And the hihats are more noticeable and more forwarded. I'm really confused if it's psychological but I believe I have good ears for I can hear the sound of a charging rechargeable AA battery, or even when my capdase is charging the J3. I don't know any person I know of that can hear those things so I think I have pretty good ears.. lol. I don't hear distortion or any sign of SQ loss in 6db setting though. But if you can tell me that it wouldn't be like maxing out the vol on J3 when in 0 gain in E17, that it would still bring the details and better soundstage, I'd be happy to use it and pay more attention to the 0 gain. My setting btw is J3->40, E17->6db gain 28-36 (depends on the song) using DT1350. And boy the sound is just fantastic!!! When I use 0 gain my volume goes up to 35-42 I think.


----------



## blastomorpha

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The E17 comes with an Toslink to mini toslink adapter. Just that. google it for a picture.
> 
> You can use the PS2 if you want. I don't see a fault. Of course i don't know if there is something that audiophiles don't like about it
> 
> ...


 


  I edited the post before your anser, but thanks anyway!
  I'm a bit confused about the digital connection to the E17 (or any other device). I suddendly recollected that my main pc, which I originally built fo various media purposes indeed, has a digital output (toslink again). I opened Windows7 audio panel, selected the right SPDIF output (there is also an HDMI and a firewire, but this one isn't listed... ) and check the sampling rates; it goes up to 96khz. I made a quick test with the Extigy digital input and it works, but now I wonder about the 24bit/192khz story.
  I'm a musician myself, even worse a guitarist, so placebo effects are a big deal. Now, if the control panel of my pc says that the max sampling rate is 96khz, at which frequency the E17 or whatever would work? I'm more into networking for work, but if it's true that the digital out should bypass my motherboard internal DAC, said the I'm playing actually 192khz signals from the pc (foobar2000+wasapi and so on), the E17 will work at 192khz, because there will be no encoding/decoding in my pc, right? The E17 will do that. The numbers in the control panel are only relative to the case that I'm using some kind of speaker, let's say, that have digital inputs I guess...


----------



## ClieOS

There is a chip (the SPDIF transcoder) inside you PC that needs to encode the digital signal (1001010101... etc) from your hard disk into SPDIF format before sending it out - if that chip only encodes signal up to 96kHz, then there is no way for E17 to receive any higher resolution, even if it is still a fully digital signal.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





stevierg said:


> Do you think the HD650s would benefit from being hooked up to an E9 also or does the E17 do well enough?


 

 E17 alone do quite well with HD650. I don't have the E9, thus cannot comment on the the combination of E9+E17 with HD650. You should be able to find some posts about E9+17 in this forum. Unless adding the E9 resulted in significant improvement in SQ, I don't see any no point adding E9. Headfonia did say something about the pairing of E17 and E9. Read here.
   
http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/


----------



## blastomorpha

Quote: 





clieos said:


> There is a chip (the SPDIF transcoder) inside you PC that needs to encode the digital signal (1001010101... etc) from your hard disk into SPDIF format before sending it out - if that chip only encodes signal up to 96kHz, then there is no way for E17 to receive any higher resolution, even if it is still a fully digital signal.


 


  Thanks, now it's much more cleaner.
  In this situation then, is there any real advantage in using the E17 with the optical cable over the USB cable?
  However, my moBo is an Asus Asus M4A785TD-V EVO and it can encode at 192khz when speakers output is used
  http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A785TDV_EVO/#overview


----------



## bowei006

autoexec said:


> Thanks for the answer. However, it has strong red LED when I first plugged it in to the capdase, then after like 4 hours it became weak. I thought maybe it will become weak when it is soon to be full. It is also strong when I first charged it in my laptop but I didn't watched it going to full batt as I have left it like less than 3 hours. Have you noticed the transition from the charging state to the full batt state? I know my capdase is a good charger I can feel when a charger is cheap and doesn't give good current. I use it on my ipod touch/nano/J3/N2 and the charging time is really normal. Maybe the red LED will become weak before it is actually turned off? I disconnected it though because I'm kinda scared that it may mess up the battery if that isn't normal, I got scared that it's charging 4+ hours and the red LED is still not powered off though weak.. Thanks!
> 
> 
> And also this, I only get 48K/16-bit when USB connected to my laptop as DAC. Is that normal? :| Thank you very much bro!




You need to set or change the sampling eate yourself manually in windows sound. Its the one where you choose thr default playback device. All you do then is click on properties for usb e17 and move through the tabs until you find sampling rate and move it to the highest possible. Plz note this could crash your computer. So if setting to 192 crashes then dont do 192 and stick to a lower one


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You need to set or change the sampling eate yourself manually in windows sound. Its the one where you choose thr default playback device. All you do then is click on properties for usb e17 and move through the tabs until you find sampling rate and move it to the highest possible. Plz note this could crash your computer. So if setting to 192 crashes then dont do 192 and stick to a lower one


 

 In Windows, there shouldn't even be the option above 24/96 via usb.
   
  With Vista:
   
  Start Menu> Control Panel> Hardware and Sound> Sound> Manage Audio Devices> Choose SPDIF Interface> Click "Advanced" Tab - Choose 2-channel, 24 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) from the drop-down menu.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> In Windows, there shouldn't even be the option above 24/96 via usb.


 


  Windows supports output formats above 24/96 but it requires proprietary drivers as the integrated drivers are only USB Audio Class 1 compliant.


----------



## ClieOS

blastomorpha said:


> Thanks, now it's much more cleaner.
> In this situation then, is there any real advantage in using the E17 with the optical cable over the USB cable?
> However, my moBo is an Asus Asus M4A785TD-V EVO and it can encode at 192khz when speakers output is used
> http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A785TDV_EVO/#overview




Unless you have music there is encoded in 24/192, I really don't see much benefit to use the optical.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> In Windows, there shouldn't even be the option above 24/96 via usb.
> 
> With Vista:
> 
> Start Menu> Control Panel> Hardware and Sound> Sound> Manage Audio Devices> Choose SPDIF Interface> Click "Advanced" Tab - Choose 2-channel, 24 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) from the drop-down menu.


 

 GAH! I forgot he was on USB. 
   


  Quote: 





roller said:


> Windows supports output formats above 24/96 but it requires proprietary drivers as the integrated drivers are only USB Audio Class 1 compliant.


 

 In layman's term's. Update your sound/audio driver.
   


  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Unless you have music there is encoded in 24/192, I really don't see much benefit to use the optical.


 

 True that. I only have one but I use optical just because I don't have too many extra USB ports to spare.


----------



## koremora

My e17 won't turn on. It was working fine yesterday. I got home today, pushed the power button, and nothing happened. It's showing the red light as if it's charging when connected via USB, but holding the power button or even just pressing it quickly does nothing. I've tried unplugging it and turning it on, and then plugging it back in, but nothing has worked. 
   
  EDIT: as soon as I made this post, the red light went dark. It turns back on for 30 seconds or so when I unplug and plug the USB back in, but then it goes dark. Help?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





koremora said:


> My e17 won't turn on. It was working fine yesterday. I got home today, pushed the power button, and nothing happened. It's showing the red light as if it's charging when connected via USB, but holding the power button or even just pressing it quickly does nothing. I've tried unplugging it and turning it on, and then plugging it back in, but nothing has worked.
> 
> EDIT: as soon as I made this post, the red light went dark. It turns back on for 30 seconds or so when I unplug and plug the USB back in, but then it goes dark. Help?


 


  Reset it. there's a reset switch at the top of the E17 device. See if that helps. and make sure to press the power button firmly..and even more importantly. make sure the lock/hold switch is in the upward position so that the orange is not showing.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> In layman's term's. Update your sound/audio driver.


 


  No. The E17 uses Windows generic drivers which only allow for 24/96. FiiO does not provide drivers of their own to allow access to 24/192. Only S/PDIF supports it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> No. The E17 uses Windows generic drivers which only allow for 24/96. FiiO does not provide drivers of their own to allow access to 24/192. Only S/PDIF supports it.


 


  So again you are saying that only S/PDIF allows up to 192KHz due to it's driver support from your audio chip on the computer? I wasn't able to access 192KHz on S/PDIF til after I updated my onboard audio driver


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> So again you are saying that only S/PDIF allows up to 192KHz due to it's driver support from your audio chip on the computer? I wasn't able to access 192KHz on S/PDIF til after I updated my onboard audio driver


 


  I'm saying that without proprietary drivers, there will be no 24/192 output through USB on Windows as the generic drivers only allow for 24/96.
   
  But keeping system drivers up to date is a given, and in your case it should've always worked unless you were using a very old driver version.
   
  EDIT: Added that I was talking about USB.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> I'm saying that without proprietary drivers, there will be no 24/192 output through USB on Windows as the generic drivers only allow for 24/96.
> 
> But keeping system drivers up to date is a given, and in your case it should've always worked unless you were using a very old driver version.
> 
> EDIT: Added that I was talking about USB.


 
  I was talking about S/PDIF. mis communication
   
  I was indeed using a very old driver version. The first initial roll out of it actually. It was stable and I never had any problems so I never cared to update.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I was talking about S/PDIF. mis communication
> 
> I was indeed using a very old driver version. The first initial roll out of it actually. It was stable and I never had any problems so I never cared to update.


 


  Ah ok. Well, while I can understand going with reliable drivers, if there are newer versions that are as reliable and improve on usability and/or bring new features, then that's definitely something to consider.
   
  What onboard audio chip do you have?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> Ah ok. Well, while I can understand going with reliable drivers, if there are newer versions that are as reliable and improve on usability and/or bring new features, then that's definitely something to consider.
> 
> What onboard audio chip do you have?


 


  VIA® VT1708S
   
  It's high spec'd...and performs better than most onboard audio i have heard(except for Mac's) but..compared to audiophile standards? It is trash..best word for it. It's high spec'd but high spec'd doesn't mean it's good.
   
   
  specs:
   
   
   


> VIA Vinyl HD Audio codecs represent the next generation of sound quality, supporting the high definition HD Audio standard for a whole new immersive surround sound experience. The VIA Vinyl VT1708S is a low-power optimized, high fidelity, 8-channel High Definition audio codec which is compatible with Intel High Definition Audio specification and supports stereo 24-bit resolution and up to 192 kHz sample rate for DACs/ADCs.
> The VIA Vinyl VT1708S features four stereo DACs, two stereo ADCs, analog input to analog output mixing, and two independent S/PDIF outputs. It can achieve high performance 100 dB Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) for DACs and 90 dB SNR for ADCs. A high quality analog mixer is used to support A-A path.
> The VIA Vinyl VT1708S features eight integrated microphone amplifiers with four sets of adjustable Vref-out pins for microphone bias which can be programmed with 10/20/30-dB boost gain. The stereo ADCs and microphone array can support Acoustic Echo Cancellation (AEC), Beam Forming (BF), and Noise Suppression (NS) technologies for an unmatched PC audio experience.
> The VIA Vinyl VT1708S uses three jack detection pins for presence detection on up to twelve audio jacks allowing software to determine if there is a device plugged into the circuit.
> ...


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> VIA® VT1708S
> 
> It's high spec'd...and performs better than most onboard audio i have heard(except for Mac's) but..compared to audiophile standards? It is trash..best word for it. It's high spec'd but high spec'd doesn't mean it's good.


 

  
  I hope you plan on upgrading soon. Onboard audio chips are always terrible, even if some aren't as bad as most. Source quality is one thing you should really improve on. Is that something you might consider doing?


----------



## blastomorpha

Quote: 





roller said:


> I hope you plan on upgrading soon. Onboard audio chips are always terrible, even if some aren't as bad as most. Source quality is one thing you should really improve on. Is that something you might consider doing?


 


  VT1708S, same as my moBo... and I'm just downloading the most recent drivers


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





roller said:


> Windows supports output formats above 24/96 but it requires proprietary drivers as the integrated drivers are only USB Audio Class 1 compliant.


 

 Sorry for your misunderstanding. I was referring to the E17 used via usb only.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> I hope you plan on upgrading soon. Onboard audio chips are always terrible, even if some aren't as bad as most. Source quality is one thing you should really improve on. Is that something you might consider doing?


 


  I take it you mean source as my hard drive and replacing with a "better" sounding SSD, pathway of digital file on hard drive out through USB or S/PDIF(anything in between) and replace it with a new audio sound card, or the digital files themselves.
   
  Source could mean any of those 3 and are not just limited to so please elaborate on what you mean(this isn't a confrontational tone, many thing it is.) I'm mearly wondering what you mean


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I take it you mean source as my hard drive and replacing with a "better" sounding SSD, pathway of digital file on hard drive out through USB or S/PDIF(anything in between) and replace it with a new audio sound card, or the digital files themselves.
> 
> Source could mean any of those 3 and are not just limited to so please elaborate on what you mean(this isn't a confrontational tone, many thing it is.) I'm mearly wondering what you mean


 

  
  I'm talking about getting rid of the crummy onboard audio chip and using a high quality DAC, internal or otherwise. But having higher quality files also helps, of course 
   
  About hard drive techs, I don't really think the price increase justifies the borderline nul advantages a SSD has, especially since a carefully built system will already have little shielding issues, and the regular operation of a mechanical drive doesn't really have an audible effect on audio, except if the motherboard has awful paths on its PCB.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> I'm talking about getting rid of the crummy onboard audio chip and using a high quality DAC, internal or otherwise. But having higher quality files also helps, of course
> 
> About hard drive techs, I don't really think the price increase justifies the borderline nul advantages a SSD has, especially since a carefully built system will already have little shielding issues, and the regular operation of a mechanical drive doesn't really have an audible effect on audio, except if the motherboard has awful paths on its PCB.


 


  Well I have thought of that. But look at the thread we are in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I kinda just got one.
   
  95% of all my song are CD ripped and in ALAC. I then have secondary encodings of all those songs in 256kbps VBR AAC for when my ipod runs out of space and I need to put them on instead of ALAC's. a few of my songs are above red book standards of 1411.2 kbps 44.1KHz 16bit.
   
  The performance increase is astounding..but $300?...that would go into a GPU and CPU thank you very much. and the mobo  above when i said "pathway of digital file on hard drive out through USB or S/PDIF" i meant the paths on the PCB and the efficency of the mobo, i forgot how to word it there.
   
   
   
I have read an article on a "world class" audiophile that says different hard drives and different types of them sound different with SSD's having that more homley warm sound(think wolfson) as opposed to HDD's. i for one say that i will never reach the point in my life where a storage medium will sound different to me.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Well I have thought of that. But look at the thread we are in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  You're right  But if I were you, I'd skip even touching your onboard audio chip through S/PDIF and use USB. Anything over 24/96 is basically useless, despite the (very) rare recordings that sound (very) marginally different on 24/192. There has been a lot of discussion over the matter, and the conclusion by several high profile people in the audio world was that the ideal output format was between 24/48 and 24/96, so going beyond that would yield next to no improvements.
   
  SSDs have their use, no doubt, but it's mainly situational. Make no mistakes, SSDs give a huge performance increase in system responsiveness as well as throughput, but that's still at the cost of long term reliability, which isn't acceptable for anything remotely near mission critical machines. Eventually when the NAND chips get smaller, right below the threshold where data integrity will begin to go down right out the window and the 1$/GB barrier is crossed comfortably, then I might consider getting a system drive.
   
  The thing is, we need to be tolerant over different people's takes on improvements that tend to have little to no objective value. Sometimes both worlds need to come into place for a peaceful existence, but then again, my wallet also likes some peace of mind, which isn't the easiest of tasks when I'm around Head-Fi 
  Let me give you an example. While I have replaced a few cables on my system, they were nowhere near as expensive as some of the things we've seen here, and more importantly the aftermarket cables were purchased not to improve sound quality, but to reduce/fix sound issues that were present with the stock cables. Now, for me, that's a big difference between going all out to get cables costing hundreds or thousands of dollars to gain potentially dubious improvements in sound, and getting above cheap cables that were purchased for the sole purpose of eliminating issues.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





roller said:


> You're right  But if I were you, I'd skip even touching your onboard audio chip through S/PDIF and use USB. Anything over 24/96 is basically useless, despite the (very) rare recordings that sound (very) marginally different on 24/192. There has been a lot of discussion over the matter, and the conclusion by several high profile people in the audio world was that the ideal output format was between 24/48 and 24/96, so going beyond that would yield next to no improvements.
> 
> SSDs have their use, no doubt, but it's mainly situational. Make no mistakes, SSDs give a huge performance increase in system responsiveness as well as throughput, but that's still at the cost of long term reliability, which isn't acceptable for anything remotely near mission critical machines. Eventually when the NAND chips get smaller, right below the threshold where data integrity will begin to go down right out the window and the 1$/GB barrier is crossed comfortably, then I might consider getting a system drive.
> 
> ...


 


  1: I know what you are saying and I understand that. Forgive me but I am a hypocrite. I dislike it when people say things that I already know but also enjoy immensly how they would even try to help out. no hard feelings plz. Many people misunderstand me due to my pet peeves and how i operate but i mean you no harm roller. it's always been a pleasure reading your informative posts. I just get irked when I read so many of those postsBut yeah. I know what you are saying about the Sampling Rates, I barely touch on that stuff.
   
  2:long term reliability is a problem sadly  let's just hope i can afford it by the time i get my next pc build going which is going to be from 2 years from now
   
  3: i agree on that  some cables i have used have technical problems such as EMI and what not. I have not recently read an ignornat post by somebody that has bought a cable and said how much better it sounded which is nice  I will say that those super expensive silver and what not cables do offer a difference but not on the levels of......super change(althought i have yet to test myself, im speaking in a technical tone)
   
  And again in case i didn't get through the first time. I enjoy your posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and am not hostile.. i've been mistaken to be sometimes. let this super awesome emoticon show it


----------



## Thunder240

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...
> For those who intend to use Alpen mostly as a desktop USB DAC and not a portable - I do recommend you to drain the battery occasional (once or twice per month) in order to prolong the battery life.
> ...


 

  
  @ClieOS : Does this mean that the Alpen will function fine if used exclusively as a desktop DAC/amp, plugged into the wall at all times using a USB charger with proper specs? I noted some of your reviews of other FiiO products products which mentioned that the units could not be used during a charge due to circuit topology. If so, it sounds like FiiO fixed this issue with the E17, which is good news for me!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thunder240 said:


> @ClieOS : Does this mean that the Alpen will function fine if used exclusively as a desktop DAC/amp, plugged into the wall at all times using a USB charger with proper specs? I noted some of your reviews of other FiiO products products which mentioned that the units could not be used during a charge due to circuit topology. If so, it sounds like FiiO fixed this issue with the E17, which is good news for me!


 


  yes. the battery may have some advere effects due to that but a power cycle every month of draining and then powering is recommended.
   
  Only the E11 does not allow you to charge and use at same time, no other products have this problem.
   
  if you just want a desktop DAC and amp something like the Maverick D1 or a computer audio card like an STX or Titanium HD might be better. but of course those 3 are just what i know to be popular in this price range and is not a recommendation as it is a suggestion to take a look at time as i do not own those 3. those are just to point you in the right direction


----------



## Thunder240

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> yes. the battery may have some advere effects due to that but a power cycle every month of draining and then powering is recommended.
> 
> Only the E11 does not allow you to charge and use at same time, no other products have this problem.
> 
> if you just want a desktop DAC and amp something like the Maverick D1 or a computer audio card like an STX or Titanium HD might be better. but of course those 3 are just what i know to be popular in this price range and is not a recommendation as it is a suggestion to take a look at time as i do not own those 3. those are just to point you in the right direction


 
   
  Appreciate the info. Will follow up with PM so as not to threadjack this review!


----------



## ClieOS

thunder240 said:


> @ClieOS : Does this mean that the Alpen will function fine if used exclusively as a desktop DAC/amp, plugged into the wall at all times using a USB charger with proper specs? I noted some of your reviews of other FiiO products products which mentioned that the units could not be used during a charge due to circuit topology. If so, it sounds like FiiO fixed this issue with the E17, which is good news for me!




As answered above, only E11 doesn't allow use when charging. It is not so much of a issue but an implementation to avoid grounding problem since E11 uses an unique 3 channel design. E17 (or any of the other FiiO) on the other hand doesn't have that design.


----------



## Thunder240

Understood, thanks. I decided to order the E17 from mp4nation, hopefully it will ship before too long!


----------



## prsut

Having E17 for about a week, here are some impressions :
   
  1.
  OPPO DVD -> Optical cable -> E17 -> Denon AHD2000 works OK.
  Sound backgroud without any hiss (OPPO paused, volume at max. gain +6 on E17), sound character as same as OPPO -> Graham Slee NOVO - denons.
  Test with Dire Straits Money For Nothing original CD
   
  2.
  OPPO DVD -> HDMI cable -> Samsung UE40D6530 TV -> digital Out -> E17 -> denons also works OK
  Sound has lower volume and not so detailed, but still better than headphone output. 
  Test with Dire Straits Money For Nothing original CD
   
  3. Notebook Toshiba (running foobar and Ayreon Electric Castle in FLAC, EQ = off) -> USB cable -> E17 - Phonak Audeo PFE 112, also works very fine.
   
  4. Cowon S9 at volume level 30, Normal settings (EQ = off) -> nuForce cable 20cm -> E17 -> Phonak Audeo PFE112 - works very good.
   
   
  E17 treble settings  = 0 to +2 as both Denons and Phonaks are bit forward to upper frequencies.
  E17 bass settings = max +4.
   
  I'm not writing much on forums (because of my poor english . as you noticed for sure), but I'm so impressed with E17, that I simply cannot resist to write a bit here on forum.
  Also I have Digizoid 2 ver.3, but E17 is much better (no hiss, better - not muddy  bass and no midrange loss).
   
  Simply said, E17 is best little thing I bought last two years. I'm so impressed.
   
  Thank you fiio...


----------



## harrisonhawk

Wow! This amp is causing quite a stir. Great review, I'm currently nursing a dropped E6 and have been eyeing up an E11 to replace it, but judging by posts here the E17 might be worth waiting for and spending a little more money on.
  That said, I probably won't be using the DAC too much, I'm more after an amp for my portable setup (iPhone 4, HD-25 or reshelled SE530x4). What do people think? Is it worth spending that little bit extra on the E17, particularly with less hiss for the 530s, or saving some dosh and getting the E11?


----------



## Necrontyr

Personally I would say get the e17, some of the reviews i've seen consider it a superior amp to the e11, and you've yet to realize how awesome it will be as a dac, and so simple to use.... plug in the usb micro cable to your e17, other end to your pc/laptop and bam, new sound card with amazing sound with no fuss. 
   
  I am actually in the same situation as yourself @harrisonhawk, i'll be using it primarily on my commute to and from work with my senn hd595's and grado's as the mood strikes me, but I do think i'll look forward to going home and gaming via the amp too, crank up the bass while playing COD or MW and its gonna feel like your there with the fiio and your senn hd-25's


----------



## DiscoBurger

Where are you guys buying these from? I'm having a hard time locating a dealer online, or even a time frame for when the second batch will ship. Also another questions...this forum is way too long and I am way too busy to search 150+ pages, do you think it is a better option to buy e7/e9 now used and cheap, or wait for the e17/e9? I am using d2000s and will be using either ultrasone pro 900s or dt880 250ohms...thanks!


----------



## Stevierg

Quote: 





discoburger said:


> Where are you guys buying these from? I'm having a hard time locating a dealer online, or even a time frame for when the second batch will ship. Also another questions...this forum is way too long and I am way too busy to search 150+ pages, do you think it is a better option to buy e7/e9 now used and cheap, or wait for the e17/e9? I am using d2000s and will be using either ultrasone pro 900s or dt880 250ohms...thanks!


 


  Shipments have been sent out for the second batch, there are still more to be sent out. Best bet is to keep an eye on the forums here, or your favorite web stores. Might just be worth placing a preorder for them. Stock is low and they are not coming fast.


----------



## DiscoBurger

Thats a good call I guess if I just stay on the ball...any store reccs?


----------



## bowei006

if you* just want to use this as a desktop setup *with D2K's and 250 ohm beyer's and pro 900 ultrasones.. then the E7/E9...why? because the DAC of the E17 and E7 is the same, if you also want to take the E7 or E17 unit with your and use it portably. then i can't answer that


----------



## DiscoBurger

I want to use it both portably and as a desktop unit and I didn't want to spent a kings ransom, I was thinking the e17 had more power so I should wait...sorry if I was unclear, I know the DAC is the same I was just thinking it still might be a more versatile/better sounding option than the older e7.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





discoburger said:


> I want to use it both portably and as a desktop unit and I didn't want to spent a kings ransom, I was thinking the e17 had more power so I should wait...sorry if I was unclear, I know the DAC is the same I was just thinking it still might be a more versatile/better sounding option than the older e7.


 


  i have heard both people say E17 and E11 have enough power for 250 ohm beyer and have heard the opposite, and remember, listening volume is different for everyone.
   
  If anyone has the Ultrasone Pro 900 and 250 ohm beyers then you can help.. or Disco. you can look through thtis thread and PM the one's that do.


----------



## DiscoBurger

good call man, thanks! I'll go bloodhound some sources...I guess I was right in assuming that there is definately not enough power for the 600ohms huh?


----------



## AykDaddy

Guys stupid questions but
   
  1. can I use the E17 as a DAC only? I wanna plug the E17 into my MacBook via optical cable and bypass the internal sound card this way while using the Headstage Arrow 4G as the Amp. Also want to avoid double amping.
   
  2. Does optical cable bypass the MacBook's sound card as well or does this function only work with USB?
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## GrumbleFish

I'm sorry, I understand that the E7 and E17 have the same DAC chip, but it has been said in here, and in other reviews, before that the DAC section on the E17 sounds far better than the DAC on the E7 because of an improved circuit design. There are tons of products with the same DAC chip, but saying that the the analog sound that comes from the digital to analog conversion with all of those products is the same is ridiculous. There are plenty of DAPs that use the same Wolfson DAC chip, but they sound significantly different.
   
  Saying that you will get the same quality sound from the E7 and E17 when using either of them as a standalone DAC is misinforming people.


----------



## GrumbleFish

Quote: 





aykdaddy said:


> Guys stupid questions but
> 
> 1. can I use the E17 as a DAC only? I wanna plug the E17 into my MacBook via optical cable and bypass the internal sound card this way while using the Headstage Arrow 4G as the Amp. Also want to avoid double amping.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, you can do that. But you will need to buy an adapter, the L7, to plug into the bottom of the E17 that allows it to act as a standalone DAC


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





aykdaddy said:


> Guys stupid questions but
> 
> 1. can I use the E17 as a DAC only? I wanna plug the E17 into my MacBook via optical cable and bypass the internal sound card this way while using the Headstage Arrow 4G as the Amp. Also want to avoid double amping.
> 
> ...


 


  1: yes. Grumble fish answered it well. You just need the FiiO L7 to bypass the E17's internal amp and just use it as DAC
   
  2:Optical on Macbook through the 3.5mm audio jack also bypasses the Macbook's audio chip.


  Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> I'm sorry, I understand that the E7 and E17 have the same DAC chip, but it has been said in here, and in other reviews, before that the DAC section on the E17 sounds far better than the DAC on the E7 because of an improved circuit design. There are tons of products with the same DAC chip, but saying that the the analog sound that comes from the digital to analog conversion with all of those products is the same is ridiculous. There are plenty of DAPs that use the same Wolfson DAC chip, but they sound significantly different.
> 
> Saying that you will get the same quality sound from the E7 and E17 when using either of them as a standalone DAC is misinforming people.


 

 That is true to an extent but really. To what extent? Could it be placebo? The world may never know.
   
  their are plenty of DAP's that use the same wolfson chip....but do they all use the same amp?
   
  Everybody has their own audio beliefs, this is mine.


----------



## happy2000hk

I'll still new to this, but after receiving the Miles Davis from Monster and pairing it with E17.  I'd have to the soundstage got 3x bigger and the instrument separation is just so much clearer.  It is making my music feel alive.


----------



## happy2000hk

1.  Yes, just get a L7 cable.  I'm doing that now with Audioengine A2 speakers.
  2.  Yes, it bypasses it.  Although I can't really tell a huge difference, optical allows you to select high gain (+12db), while USB limits it to low gain (+6db)

  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *AykDaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Guys stupid questions but
> 
> ...


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> I'm sorry, I understand that the E7 and E17 have the same DAC chip, but it has been said in here, and in other reviews, before that the DAC section on the E17 sounds far better than the DAC on the E7 because of an improved circuit design. There are tons of products with the same DAC chip, but saying that the the analog sound that comes from the digital to analog conversion with all of those products is the same is ridiculous. There are plenty of DAPs that use the same Wolfson DAC chip, but they sound significantly different.
> 
> Saying that you will get the same quality sound from the E7 and E17 when using either of them as a standalone DAC is misinforming people.


 


  You don't have to be sorry. I agree with you. That was my main concern for the E17 (it's dac compared to E7's dac) and gave ClieOS a msg, which he told me to expect more details and something else improving.
   
  Then recently I acquired a Keces dac and wow, good components and circuit design does make a difference, big big difference...


----------



## hyogen

i'm sure this has been answered many times, but how is the E17 vs E7 JUST for the DAC portion?  I'm also guessing that the Wolfson DAC in either of these beats my Wolfson wm8994 that's in my Nexus S phone, right?  
   
  I know it's significantly better in the amp section (E17 > E7).
   
  I'm also guessing that E7+E9 is better than E17 (maybe by a little bit?)
   
  thanks
   
  Looks like mp4nation would have shipped today had I not cancelled a few weeks back.  My little dot mk3 is still not here...and feeling a little antsy now.  -_-


----------



## mrAdrian

I asked for you already 
  
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Same DAC chip, but everything else is different, down to the implementation. You can expect E17 DAC section to sound more refined and detailed over that of E7.


----------



## harrisonhawk

Thanks @Necrontyr for the advice, looks like I'm going to be doing a little saving until the E17 comes back in stock in the UK. Some sites have said early April so hopefully not too long to wait on that.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





harrisonhawk said:


> Thanks @Necrontyr for the advice, looks like I'm going to be doing a little saving until the E17 comes back in stock in the UK. Some sites have said early April so hopefully not too long to wait on that.


 


http://www.fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=197
   
  The newest information about shipment of E17 to our agents around the world. I think it will not let you wait long time to order it.


----------



## Necrontyr

feiao , I love ya, and I love fiio products , but my god watching the list of delivered companys grow is horrible! I'm constantly refreshing that list to see if Mp4Nation has em, Feed the mp4nationites ! HK is so close to home! I feel like its a lottery every day and every time a new date goes up and Mp4 aint there I lost again >< 
   
  Can't wait for it to arrive, I'm gonna take an entire day and just listen, no other entertainment.


----------



## harrisonhawk

Awesome, thanks for the information feiao, I'll keep my eyes peeled for stock.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





necrontyr said:


> feiao , I love ya, and I love fiio products , but my god watching the list of delivered companys grow is horrible! I'm constantly refreshing that list to see if Mp4Nation has em, Feed the mp4nationites ! HK is so close to home! I feel like its a lottery every day and every time a new date goes up and Mp4 aint there I lost again ><
> 
> Can't wait for it to arrive, I'm gonna take an entire day and just listen, no other entertainment.


 


  MP4nation ordered a huge quantity ( of course, just compare with some hi-end brand ), so we can only ship them tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.  
   
  Bad news is that the second batch almost sold out to our agents, means when they sold out their stocked, you may have to wait another 45 to 60 days till we start to ship the third batch of ALPEN.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





harrisonhawk said:


> Awesome, thanks for the information feiao, I'll keep my eyes peeled for stock.


 


  We will try to make everything open to our customer expect my age and my wallet.


----------



## Calintz

Quote: 





clieos said:


> E17 should drive PK1 without any problem. Synergy wise, I will say there is nothing wrong pairing Clip+ with E17 and PK1.


 

 ClieOS, Since the Clip+ doesn't have a line out, I'll have to use the Headphone out of the Clip+ to the Alpen right ?
   
  Do you think the Headphone out will provide a good output ? or do I have to invest in buying another DAP with LO in the future ?
   
  Oh, I also use Rockbox for the Clip+, which level of volume should I use ? The 0dB or the max level allowed by RB, i.e. +6dB ?
   
  Thanks for the reply before btw...


----------



## fs454

Fiio guys, your website seems to confirm miccastore and head-direct receiving shipments in the USA today...Does that mean the amps are in their hands as of today and should go on sale asap?  
   
   
  Also, anyone got experience with D5000s paired with an E17?


----------



## ClieOS

calintz said:


> ClieOS, Since the Clip+ doesn't have a line out, I'll have to use the Headphone out of the Clip+ to the Alpen right ?
> 
> Do you think the Headphone out will provide a good output ? or do I have to invest in buying another DAP with LO in the future ?
> 
> ...



Yes, you'll have to use the headphone-out on Clip+. The best way to do it is to set the volume high on the Clip+ (>90%). Since you use RB, set it at 0dB should do teh job. Clip series always has really clean headphone-output, so you will be fine.





fs454 said:


> Fiio guys, your website seems to confirm miccastore and head-direct receiving shipments in the USA today...Does that mean the amps are in their hands as of today and should go on sale asap?



It said 'shipped to' (leaving factory), not 'received' (arriving at retailer).


----------



## bowei006

FiiO are we able to get a sense of..how many you guys make per batch? 5K or more?


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> I asked for you already
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
   
  wow, sorry i was lazy and tired.  looks like the E7 is pretty dang obsolete.  so is E10.  let's hope the e19 doesn't make the e17 obsolete...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> wow, sorry i was lazy and tired.  looks like the E7 is pretty dang obsolete.  so is E10.  let's hope the e19 doesn't make the e17 obsolete...


 


  The E19 is a desktop amplifier only...from what we know. FiiO also is working on a guitar amp right now. They are gaining experience and what not on many things.
   
  There is an FiiO E17 ownership section of Head-Fi:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e17
   
  You guys can just head on down and say you own it or want it and add your own reviews and add/help out


----------



## fedayn

@bowei --> from my understanding, it's 5k total for 2 FiiO "batches".  But I might be wrong.
   
  @fedayn --> yay! first post!
   
  @EVERYONE: 
   
  I will most likely get in the coming weeks either the LCD-2 Rev. 3's (let's see when they come up with them, with the new bamboo flavour), the HE-400, or the AKG 601/Grado 225i(I don't know if it was the quality of the recording, but they simply blew my mind --> completely voluptuos sound). 
   
  At the moment I am thinking of, no matter the option regarding the headphones, to get the FiiO E17, mainly because I will play 100% of the time music from the laptop, and I need both a decent sound card/DAC call it how you want, and an amp. And hose/that need to be fairly small, easy to carry, and to be put together with the laptop in a small bag.
   
  It is already stupid to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars for something as trivial as art and beauty (sarcasm, of course). I would go bonkers to get the HD700, or worse yet, HD650/600 (listened to the last 2, found them absolutely boring, veiled, and stripped of beauty and fun, with a LehmanBrothers 800 euros amplifier, and a super serious source and quality CD), and need to pay double or triple the cost of the headphones to make them sound good. 
   
  So the idea is this: I would like to get some rather easy-to-drive open cans, with beautiful base, full, round, warm sound, just perfect for a few hours of continuos bliss. As a secondary pair I will probably get the Bainwavs HM5, as the package provides a long term, durable, day to day use product.
   
  I listen mostly to hip-hop (85% interested in the lirics - Common, 2pac, NAS, EyeDea, Athmosphere, etc etc) where I am mostly interested in having the lyrics as comprehensible as possible and with a nice, rounding, warm, decent base. After that, rock of the alternative kind, some soul, old r&b, jazz, and after that, some classical here and there.
   
  So: mp3's (some older ones with 192kbps, others 256, others 320). Will start gathering flacs and such, but this will come in time.
   
  Long term wise: 1. would you recommend the FiiO E17 as a decent-enough solution for laptop listening and portability while traveling? 2. Would highly expensive products, such as the LCD-2 or HE-400 be a good match to the E17? And yes, for me, if I get the HE 400 or LCD 2, it's game over for at least 3 years, because on this occasion it's half me, half a gift.
   
  LCD 2 + E17 ==> ? thoughts on that ? 
  HE 400 + E17 ==> ?
  Other + E17 ==> given the list of considerations above


----------



## bowei006

I would doubt the LCD 2 or HE400's can be properly driven with the E17 alone but hey. personal exp anybody?


----------



## fedayn

I'm basicly going on the assumption that comparing with other headphones, LCD 2 or HE 400 are not even close to the number of insane Ohms of other models. I know it's not the only criteria, but still. Also, I think that on the long run, it will save me money to own some of the best headphones in the world, because I wouldn't be tempted to buy 10-20-30 pairs, looking for the "sweet cheep one" (of course, cheap meaning 80-200$ on head-fi ). Plus, after 1-2-3 years, I can just go with the headphones straight to the shop and do a live listening with other AMPs, rather than buy blind again. I would do an insane step anyway, getting these cans without listening to them before, but how wrong could I be with some LCD 2, or HE 400?


----------



## bowei006

Those headphone's are generally not brought outside the home unless on a trip and are paired with much more expensive equipment. So most in the thread don't own it.


----------



## fedayn

Yes bowei, but I live in a small room, and have a small desk. Plus, if I would go to a trip, I would take the secondary cans with me, and not the expensive, special stuff.  Probably I would use the Audez'e 1 day per week, on Sunday, for 1 hour, after going to Church, have taken a fresh shower, and did not eat for 3 days, to have my spirit pure. Exagerations, of course, as I would listen to them daily, but you got the point.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fedayn said:


> Yes bowei, but I live in a small room, and have a small desk. Plus, if I would go to a trip, I would take the secondary cans with me, and not the expensive, special stuff.  Probably I would use the Audez'e 1 day per week, on Sunday, for 1 hour, after going to Church, have taken a fresh shower, and did not eat for 3 days, to have my spirit pure. Exagerations, of course, as I would listen to them daily, but you got the point.


 


  that would be great but again the issue is power. I'm worried the E17 does not have enough power to properly drive the Audeueze's to a proper volume


----------



## GrumbleFish

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> You don't have to be sorry. I agree with you. That was my main concern for the E17 (it's dac compared to E7's dac) and gave ClieOS a msg, which he told me to expect more details and something else improving.
> 
> Then recently I acquired a Keces dac and wow, good components and circuit design does make a difference, big big difference...


 


  Oh, that post wasn't directed at _you_. It was directed at another member who said that the DAC on both of the Fiios would sound the same. Which is bologna.


----------



## mrAdrian

Well either case I agree with you on how the components and how they are applied will greatly affect the sound coming out from the DAC chip.
  
  Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> Oh, that post wasn't directed at _you_. It was directed at another member who said that the DAC on both of the Fiios would sound the same. Which is bologna.


 

  
  Back on the current topic,
  If you took the 'one step to the heavens' approach for the headphones, why don't you consider the same for your amp? If I were you and I only have this certain amount of cash, I would actually buy the best amp I can and use it to test out different headphones, because I know every headphone I purchase now will be driven at their full potential.
   
  Buying LCD2 with a E17 is like... Buying a brand new Ferrari with cheap tyres, fueling it with ethanol, you get the idea.


----------



## fedayn

Adrian, first of all thank you for your response. 
   
  Now, a little explaining to do: I can't carry an amp around with me, set it up in shops, and listen. Or not all that often. With the headsets it's the same thing, although I would be highly reluctant to get out of the house with the LCD-2's. And while a good amp is nice to have(probably, since I'm new to the technicalities of hi-fi), it's mostly boring to look at, without good quality headphones. I can listen to the headphones, at least. 
   
  Another thing is I need to listen to this setup for the next 2-3 years, because I have expenses comming up that will basicly spread for that long. And for FULL disclosure, my gf will move in, and GOOD LUCK explaining then 700 euros spent on either cans or an amp. Not that I wouldn't be able to do it, but one always has to take into consideration the retaliation for such an expense. If I would spend such an amount again, with her here, it would be impossible to stop her spending spree's, as I'm the ussual "cool head". The cans actually are almost a 1 time luxury for me.
   
  Got it? 
   
  Comming back: Budget of 900 euros, E17 as candidate for DAC+AMP, mp3's from the laptop (so the source is complete crap, hence need for DAC as well) and for the future flacs, no space for bulky hardware, LCD-2 and HE-500/400 got my attention for a nice bass, good detail, clear voices, ability to not lose quality at low volume because I listen at the lowest volume possible, warm-ish & musical sound. I will take musicality, cute bass and easy understanding of words in the lyrics sang OVER opera and classical music reproduction any time. So to finish up, I want the headphones with the stongest emotions, and definately no the analytical type.
   
  Please help me out.


----------



## bowei006

To get an adeuqate one time amp and dac purchase i would recommend posting this in the summit fi forums. You should only trust stuff that people also own. Most of us here dont have summit fi level geadphones. Summit fi is just above headphones in the forum list i believe. They will be able to provide you with units that synthesize well, based of their own personal experience


----------



## fedayn

Thank you, you've been most helpful! Will direct my questions towards the appropriate area. 
   
  On another level, E17 in stock in France and Belgium. Yummy!


----------



## froster2006

fiio is getting bigger and bigger


----------



## blastomorpha

Quote: 





fedayn said:


> Thank you, you've been most helpful! Will direct my questions towards the appropriate area.
> 
> On another level, E17 in stock in France and Belgium. Yummy!


 


  Where, please?


----------



## Bleether

Good news for all of you that Pre-ordered from MP4NATION, Fiio sent the shipment out to them. Woo hoo, maybe ill get mine by mid April !? =)
   
  http://www.fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=197&page=1


----------



## fedayn

audiogarden.fr and digimania.be are the distributors for France and Belgium.


----------



## autoexec

Just an update of the weak red LED after charging 4hrs+ (in case anybody is interested or has encountered it).
   
  I think when not charging and plugged into usb, there's always a weak red light (even the usb charging is turned off). But you have to be in a very dark place to notice it (that's why I saw it when charging it thru my "very nice capdase usb adapter" lol). Anyone care to try theirs?


----------



## VortexBlast

How's the DAC section compared to the Audioengine D1? They're both similarly priced with the D1 costing $30 more, only one is portable and the other isn't.
  I'm asking this because I want a reasonably sized dac/amp combo for my laptop. I have my HP-P1 as a full portable setup.


----------



## mrAdrian

Ordered from mp4nation, preorder 2.
   
  Received fedex email today. They are finally on their way.


----------



## Gofre

Preordered mine from amp3.co.uk today, will hopefully have it by next Monday!


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





bleether said:


> Good news for all of you that Pre-ordered from MP4NATION, Fiio sent the shipment out to them. Woo hoo, maybe ill get mine by mid April !? =)
> 
> http://www.fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=197&page=1


 
   
  I asked mp4nation earlier this week about shipment status, and they said my order would ship at the end of this week; hopefully it'll go out today?!


----------



## pollen

For UKites, I just ordered from hifiheadphones. Their shipment arrived today. Yay!


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

MP4Nation.net just got their stock in. FYI. Pre-orders will start going out (finally)! YAY!


----------



## Gofre

Quote: 





pollen said:


> For UKites, I just ordered from hifiheadphones. Their shipment arrived today. Yay!


 


  Haha bloody typical, they were out of stock when I checked this morning! Although in exchange for the delay while I wait for amp3 to get stock and deliver, I did get 5% off from a voucher and 5% cash back from quidco, so swings and roundabouts =P


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Ordered from mp4nation, preorder 2.
> 
> Received fedex email today. They are finally on their way.


 
   
  Quote: 





djsquared said:


> I asked mp4nation earlier this week about shipment status, and they said my order would ship at the end of this week; hopefully it'll go out today?!


 


 Mine also shipped today (March 30th).


----------



## bowei006

@Vortex

It would be best to PM an owner of both D1 and E17. Most that have that stuff have already left the thread.

Im not sure but can the HP P1 operate as a computer DAC as well? This is a question by the way.


----------



## Bobby Steel

I was trying to hold out until Micca or one of the US dealers got stock but couldn't resist and bit on MP4 Nation. I didn't want to chance missing the random window when Micca posts the e17 on their site like did twice before. Now, more waiting since I chose their standard 4-20 day shipping.


----------



## cerabim

Mine is in the post too  from mp4nation


----------



## musicinmymind

Will get mine on Monday, WOW


----------



## Fortunex

Picking mine up Monday or Tuesday


----------



## Bonobo Loco

Does anyone know if the e17 is notably better than the e10?
   
  One other question, when using an amp like this one, do you turn up the volume all the way on the amp and use the computer's volume controls, or do you turn up the computer's controls and use the amp's volume controls... or does it even matter? Thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bonobo loco said:


> Does anyone know if the e17 is notably better than the e10?
> 
> One other question, when using an amp like this one, do you turn up the volume all the way on the amp and use the computer's volume controls, or do you turn up the computer's controls and use the amp's volume controls... or does it even matter? Thanks


 


  ^The reviews on the E17 all adress differences with the E17. I don't have personal experience but if you have the money to suplement an E17 and can see yourself using it. Why not?
   
  For use with a computer through AUX in/USB/or S/PDIF it is best to turn all volumes on your computer to 100%. If you are watching a video or on youtube or using itunes or foobar make sure the volume is also 100%. Disable all the extra stuff or if your audio driver is sound checking or lowering the sound. You can disable all the Dolby Stuff too, it's usually not enabled but I find that it is not good. Only the one's that you pay extra for externally have good Dolby. The E10 or E7 used to just disable the Computer controls to "help" us audiophiles out on this and set it to 100% but some beginners didn't know why it was like that and thought it was broken or didn't like to do that so FiiO just added/ let you have control of volume on your computer if you would like to change it. Just set it to 100% and control the rest with the E17
   
  For use with an portable music player that isn't an ipod or doesn't have a liine out option. It is best to set it on 0 Gain(if it lets you set gain's) with no volume boosting aditives(if it has any) and set volume to max and using AUX in control volume with E17


----------



## hyogen

just a quick question regarding DACs...I have read the macbook pro's dac is very good.  Does anyone know about the Macbook Air?  (newer gen--not the latest)
   
  thanks   hopefully the same...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> just a quick question regarding DACs...I have read the macbook pro's dac is very good.  Does anyone know about the Macbook Air?  (newer gen--not the latest)
> 
> thanks   hopefully the same...


 


  You should open up ifix it and look around or search previous model(2010) DAC's and compare. You should be in the green if it is a Cirrus Logic but as they use un documented model numbers. The world may never know.
   
  The one's used in Mac's are good. Compared to everything else out there. For a chip that comes standard and allows for optical out....it is a good chip in that sense. I enjoy it a lot. It could be the amplifier or circuitry but the sound comming from the Mac has a bit of a warm feeling. Not like Wolfson's, a bit muddier and looser and not as audiophile but it has that distinct warm feeling and sound that Wolfson's are known for. Not as good as a Wolfson but if you have no money, it's already very good  The Macbook Pro's also have a amp that puts out quite some power  Not a whole lot but enough 
   
  If you have the money and believe you are now able to discern the difference between the sounds then I say go for it.
   
  Make sure to buy from a place that is easily returnable if you want to get the E17. This is for in case you don't like it or can't tell the difference and wouldn't care to spend money.
   
  You still haven't gotten it yet? You've been here asking for a while and you even came up to me on Youtube so I assumed you had already did :/
   
  Anyway, back to just lurking. I'll post again when someone has another question...which is happening more frequently now as more and more are getting the device in. I believe 10K should have been made by now.


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





djsquared said:


> I asked mp4nation earlier this week about shipment status, and they said my order would ship at the end of this week; hopefully it'll go out today?!


 

 You should be getting yours soon because they shipped my E17 yesterday!


----------



## Sonnyt

Just checked, they have not sent my yet!  I pre-ordered mine over 2 months ago.  When did you pre-ordered your's?


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





sonnyt said:


> Just checked, they have not sent my yet!  I pre-ordered mine over 2 months ago.  When did you pre-ordered your's?


 


  I placed my order March 3rd. Hope all is well with your order.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I planned on not getting it--because I bought the little dot mk3 from headfi's classifieds....however it still hasn't arrived!!!  D:    It's been about a month and I'm getting a little worried.  I didn't pay as gift, so I think I'm at least safe if anything happens (I have 45 days to file a complaint)  I'm finding that I would indeed enjoy having a USB dac, especially since I only have laptops at home and it'd be nice to use at school..  also the pretty powerful amp in the e17 should drive my dt880s well enough.. 
   
  during this whole limbo period, i've been tempted to get the E11 or E17 if available and have ordered an E6 for my friend (non-audiophile) and see if he likes it (see if I like it too ) 
   
  When I see that it's available for order on miccastore, there's a good chance I'll just jump on it. 
   
  Do you possibly know if the*  WM87588G in iPod 5th gen/5.5th gen    is better than teh WM8994?    thanks*


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I planned on not getting it--because I bought the little dot mk3 from headfi's classifieds....however it still hasn't arrived!!!  D:    It's been about a month and I'm getting a little worried.  I didn't pay as gift, so I think I'm at least safe if anything happens (I have 45 days to file a complaint)  I'm finding that I would indeed enjoy having a USB dac, especially since I only have laptops at home and it'd be nice to use at school..  also the pretty powerful amp in the e17 should drive my dt880s well enough..
> 
> during this whole limbo period, i've been tempted to get the E11 or E17 if available and have ordered an E6 for my friend (non-audiophile) and see if he likes it (see if I like it too )
> 
> ...


 

 What was the trader score of the guy?
   
  Most in the thread said it had enough power to drive 250 ohm Beyers so I guess it does
   
  Test out an E6? *cough cough* opens package and listens *puts back in package* (no one was ever there)
   
  To know something like that you would need personal experience. The easier to find threads on that stuff always seems to not be from Head-Fi and you won't know if the guy knows what he is talking about sadly. I would try asking it here in the threads but most people don't get the right answer as ....most that have those ipod's don't prowl those threads :/ You should find adequate info on which ipod is the best though. Just Google it. I found it many times before. Granted it takes about an hour to get all the facts down, but it's nice and worth it.


----------



## MickeyVee

I use the E17 with the current 2011 MBA and it's absolutely outstanding! Same with my first gen so I assume that they're all about the same.  Tried the MBA HP jack once.. never agin.
  Do yourself a favor, get one!
  
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> just a quick question regarding DACs...I have read the macbook pro's dac is very good.  Does anyone know about the Macbook Air?  (newer gen--not the latest)
> 
> thanks   hopefully the same...


----------



## AstralStorm

Quote: 





noona1227 said:


> Has anybody tried the e17 with the Beyerdynamic dt1350?


 

 I have, works very well. Don't even have to engage the boost. Soundwise E17 is as transparent as ever. Needs 26 notches for correct loudness w/o any boost.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I use the E17 with the current 2011 MBA and it's absolutely outstanding! Same with my first gen so I assume that they're all about the same.  Tried the MBA HP jack once.. never agin.
> Do yourself a favor, get one!


 
  How much sound improves is different per person. I don't mean sound improves as in technically but as in a per person basis. The DAC may have no effect on some and some may think it's not worth it. Everyone has different levels of audiophileness and also how much they thing is worth what they bought. Hyogen seems to not be a problem but there are some that are more consumer or can't see the E17 being worth $150. Those are mainly the mainstream consumers but some(few) head fi'ers do share those thoughts. Telling someone to just go out and get one wouldn't exactly be correct. Sharing the details and providing insight and info on it that include what they should expect. How everyone is different should matter.
   
  Granted, personally I know exactly where you are coming from as I have the MBP too. Would I starve away from my MBP's standard headphone out? No. It's high quality enough IMO that I don't need to be. For other computers with standard audio chips and ipod's direct out. I can see where you are coming from. Again this is just in my opinion. I can stand the MBP headphone out but can't stand other computers audio out and an ipod's(with headphones. I can stand it with regular consumer earbuds though) 
   
  I'm not confronting you by the way if it feels that way. I have been mistaken many times before. I am just getting a point out that just telling somebody to buy this..considering it is $150 and .....still hard and uncertain to get one's hands on besides the fact that FiiO has probably churned out 10K of these already as they just finished their second batch presumably.


----------



## dillydally

Is this a good DAC + headphone amp for Ety ER4s? I sort of need a cheap and portable all-in-one solution as I'm going abroad soon.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dillydally said:


> Is this a good DAC + headphone amp for Ety ER4s? I sort of need a cheap and portable all-in-one solution as I'm going abroad soon.


 


  "Welcome to Head-Fi sorry about your wallet"
   
  I don't exactly want to seem like I am here all over the place...but ...lost souls beckon. Even with incomplete answers.
   
  A quick search of this thread of ER4's only turns up one person. CLIEOS himself tested the E17 with them. I would shoot him a P.M asking how the ER4's were with the E17. I wouldn't bet on waiting in this thread. CLIEOS I doubt checks every comment and even if he did it would take a while to get back to you.


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





bleether said:


> I placed my order March 3rd. Hope all is well with your order.


 


  I ordered mine on Feb. 19 from mp4nation. I wonder what's the delay if ppl who ordered in March already have theirs :?


----------



## xbugx

Ordered mine on 2/22 and they haven't shipped yet either


----------



## dillydally

Is their site down for anyone else? 
   
  www.fiio.com.cn


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 His trader score was 0, but so is mine.  I'm not worried about it--just annoyed that it's been 1 month since payment.  I have 45 days to file a claim which from my experience, Ebay and Paypal do not protect the seller whatsoever.....sadly.  He says he shipped it almost 2 weeks ago and I was okay with cheapest method...  at this point I don't have any reason to think he is trying to scam me, especially with being willing to accept non-gift Paypal payment. 
   
  hehehe--will definitely try out his E6 once he opens it  
   
  Yeah, I've found that the 5th gen and 5.5gen ipod classic (video) have the best wolfson dac/sound.


----------



## yungyaw

Hello everyone! I am so sorry for my wallet cos I preordered the E17 two weeks ago, but it's OK cos it will be my bday present from myself. Haha! Thanks to @ClieOS for the great review and advice and I finally made the decision.
   
  I just checked the tracking number I got from MP4nation. The courier service has picked up my E17 and it's on the way home! Can't wait to receive it soon.
   
  Hope everyone have a nice day.


----------



## Sonnyt

Quote: 





djsquared said:


> I ordered mine on Feb. 19 from mp4nation. I wonder what's the delay if ppl who ordered in March already have theirs :?


 

  
  I ordered mine on Jan. 31, opened status ticket, not a single response!  I'll give them 1 more week then I'll cancel it.


----------



## mdyoung216

Is anyone that has the E17and isn't going to use the little rubber feet; wouldn't mind parting with them?  I'll send you an envelope with my address and a stamp.  Please PM me if you wouldn't mind doing it.  Mine didn't have them.  The Micca Store said they don't have any extra and I wasn't going to return it for missing rubber feet.


----------



## cerabim

So quick, I have rececived my E17 already today.

I had to run so quickly tested it with iPod gen 5 video, wave file vocal song, UE TF10, LOD9. Em.... I cannot hear much different vs I play straight from iPod. Anyone know why?!


----------



## bowei006

It is the reason I keep making. It matters on how much/far into audio are you. If you have good enoughyearsand ifyoucandifferentiate. The difference is clear to me but back when I started out into this realm of elitist audio I couldnt tell the difference either.

The problem could be that we have been getting new head fiers. This is the fourth new E17 arrival to happen. This one has a noticeable amount of new head fiers. Being a member doesnt mean much as you can also lurk, but being a member with rank shows you have been learning how to differentiate and what to hear apart,(if you go into those parts of the forums)


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





cerabim said:


> So quick, I have rececived my E17 already today.
> 
> I had to run so quickly tested it with iPod gen 5 video, wave file vocal song, UE TF10, LOD9. Em.... I cannot hear much different vs I play straight from iPod. Anyone know why?!


 


 so I LOVE the UE TF10--and I find the DT880 250ohm to be the SAME (pretttty much, especially when amped).  Other people have said this same thing..  anyway... I find the TF10 to IMPROVE greatly even with JUST the wolfson DAC + voodoo sound control on my galaxy Nexus S phone.  I use the sound attenuator that comes with it and it's pretty much (again) the same as my dt880 250. 
   
  I find even better result (by a slight margin) with my desktop hybrid tube amp (trends pa-10).   I have yet to try the little dot mk3...  I doubt they can be driven further....it's awesome.
   
  From all the reviews and comparisons to which I can relate, I know the E17 SHOULD drive the TF10 to their fullest....  I have been in the market for a 5th gen iPod video (or 5.5th gen) because of the fact that it has a better Wolfson DAC and more HD capacity...probably better amp as well.   the 5th gen iPod is better than even the iPhone 4...  http://macintoshhowto.com/itunes/which-ipod-has-the-best-audio-quality.html
   
  I think you're not hearing much of a difference because of the fact that your source (5th gen ipod) is pretty much THE best ipod there is. Compare how your ipod sounds + tf10 and your cell phone mp3 player....or some other mp3 player without a wolfson dac.  I'm pretty sure you're gonna hear a huge difference both in clarity and liveliness.  Before I heard the wolfson + voodoo, I had only previously been blown away by the TF10 and DT880........and was equally blown away when I added the wolfson DAC + amplification to these. 
   
  I'm guessing that we're somewhat at the point of marginal return/benefit with these IEMs.  Unless you spend more than a thousand maybe on custom IEMs and upgrade to maybe the iMod (red wine audio mod $300) for your 5th gen iPod, you probably won't hear much gain. 
   
  I'm curious to hear your thoughts as you compare with other mp3 players and other headphones since you're one of the first to say that it hasn't improved anything that you can hear. 
   
  I believe it's because you've already experienced the huge improvement, and not because it isn't there


----------



## MickeyVee

I guess it depends on the cans you're using. I've had knee problems for the past few months (going for surgery in May) and just couldn't get comfortable last night.  I took my MacBook Air into the bedroom, hooked up the E17 to my Senn HD650's, put some pillows under my knees and listened away in nirvana.  There is absolutely no way I would have had the same listening experience with the 650's plugged directly into the HP jack of the MBA.
  Personally, for me, it's a no brainer with the 650's and all worth the $150. I started out being indifferent with it, though it was nice but the more I use it, the more I appreciate it. I've been through 5 amps/dacs in the last year.  For someone just starting their journey, the E10 or the E17 would be a great start for 'not so much money'. YMMV.
  Given that.. I retract and say 'Highly Recommended'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I'm not confronting you by the way if it feels that way. I have been mistaken many times before. I am just getting a point out that just telling somebody to buy this..considering it is $150 and .....still hard and uncertain to get one's hands on besides the fact that FiiO has probably churned out 10K of these already as they just finished their second batch presumably.


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





mdyoung216 said:


> Is anyone that has the E17and isn't going to use the little rubber feet; wouldn't mind parting with them?  I'll send you an envelope with my address and a stamp.  Please PM me if you wouldn't mind doing it.  Mine didn't have them.  The Micca Store said they don't have any extra and I wasn't going to return it for missing rubber feet.


 

 You can find feet for you E17 at your local Home Depot, Lowes and many other hardware stores.
   


  Quote: 





cerabim said:


> So quick, I have rececived my E17 already today.
> I had to run so quickly tested it with iPod gen 5 video, wave file vocal song, UE TF10, LOD9. Em.... I cannot hear much different vs I play straight from iPod. Anyone know why?!


 

 For some reason, the E17 needs lots of burn-in. Once it opens up, your eyes will be popping out of their sockets, similar to this Smiley.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> You can find feet for you E17 at your local Home Depot, Lowes and many other hardware stores.
> 
> 
> For some reason, the E17 needs lots of burn-in. Once it opens up, your eyes will be popping out of their sockets, similar to this Smiley.


 


  I didn't pay attention. This goes back into beliefs on whether solid state burn in exists and to what extent. I personally didn't hear much change. I think it's just getting used to it. Anyway it's great to always see SoundDreamer. I hate seeing people regret their purchase and it's great to see that SoundDreamer liked it


----------



## Bonobo Loco

Hey guys. I got a Fiio e10 a few weeks ago when it seemed like the e17 would never get back in stock and now i'm wondering, should I return it before my 30-day window is up or not? Thanks everyone.


----------



## fedayn

It depends on where you are and what gear you have. If you don't have pretentious gear, people say E10 make more sense. But also everyone agrees that the E17 is better. Only question is, is it worth paying maybe even double for that?
   
  After you figure that out --> I found and ordered the E17 in stock in Europe. You can try at audiogarden.fr and digimania.be. From what I was told, ordered yesterday, on Tuesday I should get it, or something like that. Also, mp4nation got it, so I guess Asia is covered as well. And not sure about the US stocks.
   
  Good luck, but most of all, enjoy your music!


----------



## hyogen

so mp4nation's website shows that it's available for order....doesn't say anything about preorder.............what does this mean??????
   
   
  I think I'm still gonna give my business to miccastore


----------



## cerabim

Now I hear the difference between the iPod 5.5gen and using the E17. There is a definite better performance with the bass. It is much wider, deeper and does not go fuzzy at the lower frequency end of the bass. I still yet to hear the difference in treble. I m very satisfy with the improvement with the bass using the E17


----------



## Darkblade48

It's no longer on pre-order because they have them in stock. The pre-order option was only available before they received the shipment from Fiio (also, if you preordered, you had the option of FedEx shipping or the free gifts).
   
  Mp4nation received the E17 Friday (I think), and shipped out some of the orders that day (mine was shipped out Friday...).
  
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> so mp4nation's website shows that it's available for order....doesn't say anything about preorder.............what does this mean??????
> 
> 
> I think I'm still gonna give my business to miccastore


----------



## cerabim

sounddreamer said:


> You can find feet for you E17 at your local Home Depot, Lowes and many other hardware stores.
> 
> 
> For some reason, the E17 needs lots of burn-in. Once it opens up, your eyes will be popping out of their sockets, similar to this Smiley.




How long is a good burn in?


----------



## kfscoll

For those interested, Head-Direct now has the E17 in stock.  It looks like they ship from within the U.S. so if you're leery of going with MP4Nation this might be a better alternative.


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> It's no longer on pre-order because they have them in stock. The pre-order option was only available before they received the shipment from Fiio (also, if you preordered, you had the option of FedEx shipping or the free gifts).
> 
> Mp4nation received the E17 Friday (I think), and shipped out some of the orders that day (mine was shipped out Friday...).


 
  So even though I ordered mine in mid-Feb, and some people who ordered theirs in March received their E17 already, do you think I should give mp4nation a few more days before I cancel my order and head over to Head-Direct or Micca? Just wondering b/c mp4nation told me via email that my E17 would ship out last week, but it did not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Any thoughts?


----------



## kfscoll

Quote: 





djsquared said:


> So even though I ordered mine in mid-Feb, and some people who ordered theirs in March received their E17 already, do you think I should give mp4nation a few more days before I cancel my order and head over to Head-Direct or Micca? Just wondering b/c mp4nation told me via email that my E17 would ship out last week, but it did not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It sounds to me like MP4Nation, for whatever reason, is jerking you around.  I'd cancel the order with them and get it from Head-Direct if I were you.  Heck, if nothing else, you'll get it quicker (assuming you're in the USA).


----------



## alyx

I ordered way back in January and mine wasn't shipped as well, that's some crappy business practice from mp4nation. If mine doesn't get shipped by next week I'm cancelling my order.
   
  Sorry for being negative on my first post..


----------



## SoundDreamer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I didn't pay attention. This goes back into beliefs on whether solid state burn in exists and to what extent. I personally didn't hear much change. I think it's just getting used to it. Anyway it's great to always see SoundDreamer. I hate seeing people regret their purchase and it's great to see that SoundDreamer liked it


 

 It is real and not a placebo. The same thing happened via the analog outputs via my OPPO BDP-93 after several hours. Mediocre at first, then at some point, all of a sudden the sound changed for the better.
   


  Quote: 





cerabim said:


> How long is a good burn in?


 

 The E17 sounds great out of the box and starts to open up after several hours of play. Personally, I noticed a difference in sound as the listening time progressed. I wasn't paying much attention to time but after about a week of around 45 minutes of listening time, the player really started to open up. After around two weeks, even more so. Now, it sounds at it's peak.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





kfscoll said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yep.  I'm tempted to put in the order now through head-direct, but I think I'll wait for Miccastore -_-  They should arrive tomorrow and they throw in a tshirt and toslink cable


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





cerabim said:


> Now I hear the difference between the iPod 5.5gen and using the E17. There is a definite better performance with the bass. It is much wider, deeper and does not go fuzzy at the lower frequency end of the bass. I still yet to hear the difference in treble. I m very satisfy with the improvement with the bass using the E17


 


  that's odd.  the 5.5gen and 5gen have the same wolfson dac in it.  Maybe they're implemented differently.  The people who do the red wine audio imod seem to use the 5.5gen most often


----------



## cerabim

Quote: 





sounddreamer said:


> It is real and not a placebo. The same thing happened via the analog outputs via my OPPO BDP-93 after several hours. Mediocre at first, then at some point, all of a sudden the sound changed for the better.
> 
> 
> The E17 sounds great out of the box and starts to open up after several hours of play. Personally, I noticed a difference in sound as the listening time progressed. I wasn't paying much attention to time but after about a week of around 45 minutes of listening time, the player really started to open up. After around two weeks, even more so. Now, it sounds at it's peak.


 
   

 I played the same song over and over again concentrating the different party of music like treble, bass, space etc. As I like bass a lot, after I think approx. 2 hours, I have noticed a clear difference with the bass. In fact I have been using my UE TF10 all these time and the bass was not as clear and deep before using the E17. Normal level of bass is ok, but those really deep one is more clearer now.


----------



## cerabim

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> that's odd.  the 5.5gen and 5gen have the same wolfson dac in it.  Maybe they're implemented differently.  The people who do the red wine audio imod seem to use the 5.5gen most often


 


  I noticed about the DAC too. May be it is more on the combination of E17 + UETF10 more than iPOD 5.5gen + E17. I don't know.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





cerabim said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  this is a little discouraging, b/c even Wolfson + Voodoo with 5db amp on my Nexus S phone makes the TF10 have AMAZING soundstage (to my ears).   I guess maybe I don't listen to bass heavy music...but still.  and using the Comply foam tips for the TF10 really help with bass.  With my amp, the TF10 have that same amazing soundstage..maybe slightly more alive than my phone (just sold today...as of right now my only source which I haven't set up yet is my PS Vita which has a wolfson dac in it, I came to find out today -_-)   Like I've said before, the TF10 sound just like my DT880 (99%???) when amped to either my former nexus S or my amp. 
   
  Hopefully your impressions will significantly improve once the E17 breaks in more.....   about to pull the trigger tomorrow =O


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





kfscoll said:


> For those interested, Head-Direct now has the E17 in stock.  It looks like they ship from within the U.S. so if you're leery of going with MP4Nation this might be a better alternative.


 

 Last time I ordered from Head-Direct, they shipped from Hong Kong. Maybe it's just where I am located?
   
   
  Quote:


djsquared said:


> So even though I ordered mine in mid-Feb, and some people who ordered theirs in March received their E17 already, do you think I should give mp4nation a few more days before I cancel my order and head over to Head-Direct or Micca? Just wondering b/c mp4nation told me via email that my E17 would ship out last week, but it did not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Seems like it was just luck of the draw. They (the administrators on the Mp4nation forums) said that they received the shipment Friday, shipped out about half the orders on Friday, and would send the rest out on Monday (April 2nd).

  
  Quote: 





alyx said:


> I ordered way back in January and mine wasn't shipped as well, that's some crappy business practice from mp4nation. If mine doesn't get shipped by next week I'm cancelling my order.
> 
> Sorry for being negative on my first post..


----------



## prsut

I strongly recommend XLO & Reference Recordings Test And Burn-In CD track nr. 9 System Burn In....


----------



## bowei006

I personally still think adding or Saying "Wolfson" in posts about your android phone is extremely misleading. The wolfsons used in those are low power/ medium performance regular models.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I personally still think adding or Saying "Wolfson" in posts about your android phone is extremely misleading. The wolfsons used in those are low power/ medium performance regular models.


 


  While true, the wolfson DAC chip in the nexus S do sound pretty good., after being 'unlocked' by voodoo controls. You need to try it - quite outstanding for a phone/general dap.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

I'd have to agree here. Even remembering my WM8740 based iBasso D10, I had a stack of Wolfson based DAPs that sounded really good in their own right, though not "quite" as good, mostly good in a "different" way (as with all things audio). However the SGS with Voodoo Sound is Much closer to the D10 than any of those other Wolfson "codec" DAC products.
   
  In some ways, it sounds nicer (in tems of smoothness, and rendition, than my T51, which we all know sounds good)
  Quote: 





mradrian said:


> While true, the wolfson DAC chip in the nexus S do sound pretty good., after being 'unlocked' by voodoo controls. You need to try it - quite outstanding for a phone/general dap.


----------



## mrAdrian

One of the most embarrassing moments in my audiophile journey...
   
  I just received my new Motorola RaZR, and so played around with it - 'Why not?' I thought to myself, so I loaded a few songs into it and used it with my TF10. It sounded pretty good so I told my gf (I successfully educated her into one of us, except pretty little lurker =] ), and she had a listen.
   
  20sec later she looked at me, and handed me her Galaxy S with Voodoo. Fcuk I was ashamed. New toy syndrome always hit me so hard, hands down her SGS sounded so much better, to the level where I felt like taking my DAP and AMP stack out to compare with it.


----------



## bowei006

Any iPhone 4S or New iPad users with sound apps here that also have experience with a flagship Android device with Wolfson and Voodoo want to say anything? I have the 4S and iPad 2 but am too lazy to load music or download/buy music apps for it. My portable pack is just my ipod and lod and amp.


----------



## AltairDusk

FYI it's up for ordering on Micca: http://www.miccastore.com/product_info.php?products_id=77?osCsid=1074949a95d708992a087e3e379e48a9
   
  Their twitter said noon but my order went through.


----------



## Bobby Steel

Yeah, it posted a little early. I ordered one even though I placed an order with MP4 Nation. I'm a little worried they will run out of stock before they ship my order and I'll have to wait another couple of months for the next batch from Fiio. If I can't cancel the original order I'll sell my extra one on here for $140 + shipping to where ever.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Any iPhone 4S or New iPad users with sound apps here that also have experience with a flagship Android device with Wolfson and Voodoo want to say anything? I have the 4S and iPad 2 but am too lazy to load music or download/buy music apps for it. My portable pack is just my ipod and lod and amp.


 

 I have an iPad 2, just ordered the E17.....(micca store)! and got the PS Vita yesterday which I found out has a Wolfson in it!!  Of course you know I give 10/10 stars to Wolfson + Voodoo, but I sold my Nexus S yesterday also simply because it only has 16GB non-expandable memory and wanted to make use of my 32gb microSD...    Hopefully will either get a used 5.5th gen iPod (or 5th gen), or maybe a Cowon player to replace my favorite player.  With the E17 now, might use the ipad and laptop more as my source--we'll see.  I ordered
   
  I'll report back what I think of the PS vita soon--  I also got the L1 and L8.  Hope I don't regret not getting L9....got the L1 because it's more flexible and read in a review that the L9 can be limiting on how to arrange your player and E17 and headphones since the ports are right next to each other.  I prefer L shaped plugs, though. I guess MIccastore is also bundling in a toslink to mini cable and adapter....  Not sure how I can use this if at all..........do i need something like a macbook pro with optical out to take advantage of this?


----------



## bowei006

Question is if the circuitry intergration and how its implemented and what type of wolfson is on the vita, is it better than your Nexus!

L1 does not use the HPC 22W wire used in L3 and L9.


----------



## Bonobo Loco

Will this amp run the hd650 on high gain setting? People are always talking about how the hd650 is so demanding.


----------



## hyogen

bowei006 said:


> Question is if the circuitry intergration and how its implemented and what type of wolfson is on the vita, is it better than your Nexus!
> 
> L1 does not use the HPC 22W wire used in L3 and L9.





Thanks . I told them to change my order to the L9...hopefully they catch it on time .

So how can I use the toslink to mini cable and adapter? With any devices that I have right now?

FYI ps vita has LOD via the $20 chargging cradle......and it's a wolfson WM1803E


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Thanks . I told them to change my order to the L9...hopefully they catch it on time .
> So how can I use the toslink to mini cable and adapter? With any devices that I have right now?
> FYI ps vita has LOD via the $20 chargging cradle......and it's a wolfson WM1803E


 

 IT's good to do research 
   
  The Toslink to mini toslink adapter and the cable you will get from Micca is only for if you have a computer with S/PDIF out through toslink on your computer. If your windows PC does not have it, then you are out of luck. If you have an Apple Macbook..that is current. Then you are in luck.
   
  How good the Line Out is also matters. All the circuitry, resources allocated and what not really change it. The Line out medium of the Vita may not be high quality. Most on Head-Fi have not tested it yet. 
   
  The model of the Wolfson is good to note, but like most devices. It is one that was never documented with little info on it. The closest model documented Wolfson is this one
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/audio_hubs/WM1811/
   
  Again a low power model. I think the "E" at the end is for energy saving. Whatever it may be, be it low power or not as low power doesn't mean bad. We need testing to know if it is good or not.
   
  My video's on Head-Fi should cover most use of the E17. Check out the E17 section on Head-fi, my video is linked. Searching my account on youtube also works.


----------



## hyogen

Thanks. I'll look for optical port on my wife's MacBook air. 

As for vita.. Haven't tried it yet with music but so far the headphone port with my tf10 sounds very very clean like I've experienced with my nexus s. 


By the way micca store got my message and changes order to the L9
And it shipped already! I ordered it at 9am pst today . They promised it would ship in 1 to 2 business days....


LOVE it when a company under promises and over delivers......really glad I got from micca and cancelled mp4nation.


----------



## Khaine775

So, I've got an E9 for several months now, and have been loving it so far. 
   
  I should be receiving my E17 in the near future, and I plan to pair it up with the E9 and my Beyerdynamic DT880, but I have a few questions regarding connectivity.
   
  The only digital input in the E9 is USB, which I'd draw from the onboard Realtek something something chip on my Asus Sabertooth P67 mobo, but is it possible to use the SPDIF "in" on the E17 and still use the amp circuitry of the E9? I can't see why I shouldn't be able to do it that way, but I haven't come across anyone else who have done it that way, so I'm not 100% sure if it's possible. Anyone with knowledge and/or the E9/E17 combo who can help me out?
   
  If so, I plan on getting a proper sound card to get the better audio chip instead of using the motherboard and its questionable audio output capabilities.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## bowei006

@hyogen
My only qualm was with tracking. It was not miccas failt, but it was bas tracking. Dont get scared if tracking isnt moving. It will arrive in the days they specified  The tshirt remember is in Asian sizes. If your American size is an medium then you need a large. The tshirts design is a bit childish/feminine at times but i like to wear it. Great you got it changed. The L1 "technically" has a lower quality cable. The difference is unknown to me as i cant compare but the L3 or L9 should be bought. L9 if you want the L shape and "L3 for an upgraded L1 variant. The price difference is small to the point where i dont even care. L1 i dont ever recommend, because rhe upgraded japanese thicjer cables are bucks more

@khan775
You should be able to use spdif through e17 with it plugged into e9 as your input method.

Usb and spdif does not really matter or deal with your audio card. Your audio chip may add effects to the SPDIF LPCM stream but most dont add any effects . The ports and circuitry and how data goes from hdd to the port could have an effect IF it is bad, but this rarely happens


----------



## MickeyVee

Actually, they will run the HD650's.  Only after a lot of burn in did I really come to appreciate the E17 with the HD650's.  Just give it some time.  BTW, my fain seeing is 0 and I run the volume anywhere from 33 to 57.  As far as I'm concerned, its not a bad start.
  
  Quote: 





bonobo loco said:


> Will this amp run the hd650 on high gain setting? People are always talking about how the hd650 is so demanding.


----------



## jwusoccer

Mp4nation still has not shipped out my order... I ordered mine over 2 months ago, and i still haven't gotten the tracking email. I won't be buying through them again.


----------



## hyogen

jwusoccer said:


> Mp4nation still has not shipped out my order... I ordered mine over 2 months ago, and i still haven't gotten the tracking email. I won't be buying through them again.




Cancel and order through micca. I ordered this morning,.... They shipped today..... Een upgraded my L1 to L9 for free.........


----------



## jwusoccer

How long does shipping take through miccastore?


----------



## hyogen

Free ground .. $17 for 2nd day


----------



## visanj

I have made an order for E17 on mp4nation but I didn't find any message regarding 'Pre-Order'
   
  My status is 'Processing'. Can I assume that mine will be delivered as expected?
   
  Hoping for the best


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

I ordered through MP4Nation.net's Preorder 2 in mid Feb. I just received notification that my E17 is slated to arrive this week. EXCITED? mmmmaaaybe.....!


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

My order was "processing" for the past two days" and now it is slated for delivery in the next three days, I'd say it should be delivered as expected.
  
  Quote: 





visanj said:


> I have made an order for E17 on mp4nation but I didn't find any message regarding 'Pre-Order'
> 
> My status is 'Processing'. Can I assume that mine will be delivered as expected?
> 
> Hoping for the best


----------



## gkanai

Here is Japan, retailers are selling the E17 for 21,000 JPY, which is about $250+ with the current exchange rate. That's an idiotic price for this device.


----------



## Stonez

Quote: 





ananalogspirit said:


> My order was "processing" for the past two days" and now it is slated for delivery in the next three days, I'd say it should be delivered as expected.


 


 Ordered mine on 3/31.  I think I managed to get in literally hours before the pre-order ended and  chose the Brainwaves Beta instead of expedited shipping.  I'm wondering how long it will be before they arrive as my order is still processing...


----------



## Necrontyr

I'd order through Micca but they only ship to the US, Mp4 ship to Ireland with Fedex , or they would do if they ever got an order past the processing stage.......


----------



## visanj

@Flacvest, thanks for your words. Even I'm hoping to get it in 3 weeks max. I'm from India


----------



## bowei006

jwusoccer said:


> How long does shipping take through miccastore?




About a week. Dont bet on the tracking. Mine showed it was still hundred miles away even when it has arrived and it disnt update for days. Its usps by the way


----------



## RtN08

Hi guys sorry to barge in... could E17 owners please view my thread..
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/603896/e17-screen-not-working-upon-arrival


----------



## parasitius

I waited patiently for my mp4nation order since February... I got in before they changed the webpage and said all pre-orders were sold out, and was expecting the first batch to have one with my name on it... man it has been a brutal and long wait! But, it came on Monday slightly before the official Fexex delivery time of 10am. 
   

   
  Blaming mp4 nation for the huge lag is like blaming your waitress because the kitchen is massively backlogged. They aren't sitting on a crate of these things guys! I'm sure that every single one they do get in gets sent out to the next person in line ASAP.
   
  Woohoo!! E17! My first headphone amp in my life. Got it driving my D2000 cans and Atrio earbuds.


----------



## Chinafbi

I just received my fiio e17 (mp4nation).  It makes my hd598 noticeably brighter.  A little uncomfortable.  Do you think the fiio e17 is a bright amp?   The mid is a lot nicer, especially vocal.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chinafbi said:


> I just received my fiio e17.  It makes my hd598 noticeably brighter.  A little uncomfortable.  Do you think the fiio e17 is a bright amp?   The mid is a lot nicer, especially vocal.


 


  You could reduce the brightness or increase it to a point with the Vocal EQ. Vocals don't 100% equal brightness but they do help tone it up or down a bit.


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]I have same problem, D2000 and HD598 are much brighter, I was expecting E17 make them warmer, little disappointed[/size]
   
  [size=medium]TF10 and pxc 450 works great with E17, previously I never liked pxc 450, now I am enjoying them.[/size]


----------



## hyogen

so it makes the TF10 warmer??  let's keep in mind this isn't a tube amp


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I have made an order for E17 on mp4nation but I didn't find any message regarding 'Pre-Order'
> 
> My status is 'Processing'. Can I assume that mine will be delivered as expected?
> 
> Hoping for the best


 

 Pre-order is no longer an option because Mp4nation received the stock from Fiio. It should be delivered soon (mine was in processing for 3 days, then shipped out). I track the package on a daily basis. How exciting.
   
   
  Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Here is Japan, retailers are selling the E17 for 21,000 JPY, which is about $250+ with the current exchange rate. That's an idiotic price for this device.


 

 Where did you check? I haven't checked out Yodobashi yet, since rain has been in the forecast.
    
  Quote:


stonez said:


> Ordered mine on 3/31.  I think I managed to get in literally hours before the pre-order ended and  chose the Brainwaves Beta instead of expedited shipping.  I'm wondering how long it will be before they arrive as my order is still processing...


 

 I chose regular ground shipping as well. In my experience, with parcels coming from Hong Kong area, it takes about 5 business days to get to Japan. North America is usually about 10 business days. Letters are usually faster (to North America, about 4 business days).


----------



## kfscoll

I just got an email from Head-Direct that the E17 that I ordered two days ago now isn't in stock.  It was definitely in stock when I placed the order.  Nice of them to take two days to tell me.
   
  Regardless, I cancelled the order and placed it through miccastore.com.  I'm assuming they still have stock since it's available to order, but that's also what I assumed about head-direct.


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]May be warmer, I am not sure what to expect from an Amp this is my first one, but this song which was muddy on iphone4 - > TF10 sound great with iphone4->L9->E17->TF10. [/size]
[size=medium]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H36SpLblrM[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Same song sounds good on Dell XPS (which has realtek) -> D2000, but too bright on Dell XPS->E17->D2000[/size]
   
  [size=11pt]Few days with E17 and I like E17->TF10 but not D2000, may be my brain need more time for E17->D2000[/size]


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





kfscoll said:


> I just got an email from Head-Direct that the E17 that I ordered two days ago now isn't in stock.  It was definitely in stock when I placed the order.  Nice of them to take two days to tell me.
> 
> Regardless, I cancelled the order and placed it through miccastore.com.  I'm assuming they still have stock since it's available to order, but that's also what I assumed about head-direct.


 

 crappy :/    you can be sure miccastore has it in stock since it's available to order......i can't believe how honest this company is     my only regret is that I missed the last time they tweeted that they had a small amount for order a month ago.


----------



## pollen

Received mine today! My order was too late for the Friday post, so they sent yesterday (standard post) and it arrived this morning. Just got home so currently charging. It's a great looking, smaller than I thought it would be device. Can't wait for my train journey tomorrow...
   
  Still in stock too!
  
  Quote: 





pollen said:


> For UKites, I just ordered from hifiheadphones. Their shipment arrived today. Yay!


----------



## AndrewLing

nice.... but leaning toward an e10 or e11


----------



## Chinafbi

The e17 is not an upgrade at all for me.  The e17 gives a tighter sound with both treble and bass.  But the sound is bright and it is uncomfortable to listen to for more than 30minutes.   The only really big improvement is the vocal.  Well, I will continue using for a few more days and see.  I don't think the amp needs any kind of burn in.  That only applies to headphones. Sign.


----------



## mephiska

Just got my E17 yesterday.  So far I'm enjoying it quite a bit.  I just tested it out on a dog walk with my favorite headphone/amp test - Radiohead's OK computer.  I'd have to say Paranoid Android sounded more detailed and fuller than it did with my E7 + ATH-CK10's.  
   
  The main reason I got this thing, however, was the ability to dock with my E9 and use the SPDIF input from my X-Fi.  I'm now rocking bit-perfect music in foobar, and getting the benefits of the X-Fi's 3D and EAX processing for gaming all sent digitally over SPDIF to the E17 as the DAC, amped by the E9.   It is a beautiful thing - no more noisy X-Fi analog line output!


----------



## kfscoll

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> crappy :/    you can be sure miccastore has it in stock since it's available to order......i can't believe how honest this company is     my only regret is that I missed the last time they tweeted that they had a small amount for order a month ago.


 

 Yep, I'm already impressed with MiccaStore.  I placed the order and two hours later (no kidding) I got a shipment notification and a tracking number.  Outstanding.


----------



## mephiska

Miccastore is pretty good.  I've bought things from them through Amazon and their shipping is nearly as fast as Amazon's.


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





jwusoccer said:


> Mp4nation still has not shipped out my order... I ordered mine over 2 months ago, and i still haven't gotten the tracking email. I won't be buying through them again.


 


  I ordered mine from mp4nation on Feb. 17. Was just about to cancel this morning and order form micca, but then got the email that my E17 will be here tomorrow. Too bad, b/c I would have liked to get the micca package w/ t-shirt and toslink cable...excited to hear it though!


----------



## Muleskinner

I've not been impressed with mp4nation's handling of this preorder at all. My order still hasn't been shipped out despite reassurance that it would have gone out on Monday, and now they're saying it might not be out until next week due to extended Easter holiday in Hong Kong...
   
  Either way, I'll be excited to try this little thing out. This is my first foray into this type of audio equipment so I look forward to the experience. I'm only using Senn. HD555's right now, but even so I'm sure the listening experience will be nicely improved.


----------



## sunnymonk

This is my first ever Amp/DAC (thanks to Headfi and sorry to my wallet) and it arrived yesterday together with the L3 LOD. Using it with the TDK BA200, I was very surprised by the quality. Previously when I demoed the Ibasso D-0, all I noticed was a louder sound but nothing else. With the E17, the vocals just popped out at me and Adele sounds even more magical. Listening to a local singer Olivia Ong also produced the same results.
  All the songs I tried sounded more forward and I'm liking it very much.
   
  Overall, I love it!


----------



## ClieOS

sunnymonk said:


> This is my first ever Amp/DAC (thanks to Headfi and sorry to my wallet) and it arrived yesterday together with the L3 LOD. Using it with the TDK BA200, I was very surprised by the quality. *Previously when I demoed the Ibasso D-0, all I noticed was a louder sound but nothing else.* With the E17, the vocals just popped out at me and Adele sounds even more magical. Listening to a local singer Olivia Ong also produced the same results.
> All the songs I tried sounded more forward and I'm liking it very much.
> 
> Overall, I love it!




Not surprising. D-zero is a decent upgrade over E7, but not nearly at the same level as E17.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





mephiska said:


> Just got my E17 yesterday.  So far I'm enjoying it quite a bit.  I just tested it out on a dog walk with my favorite headphone/amp test - Radiohead's OK computer.  I'd have to say Paranoid Android sounded more detailed and fuller than it did with my E7 + ATH-CK10's.
> 
> The main reason I got this thing, however, was the ability to dock with my E9 and use the SPDIF input from my X-Fi.  I'm now rocking bit-perfect music in foobar, and getting the benefits of the X-Fi's 3D and EAX processing for gaming all sent digitally over SPDIF to the E17 as the DAC, amped by the E9.   It is a beautiful thing - no more noisy X-Fi analog line output!


 


  Have you tried using the USB rather than the SPDIF? If so, could you give a brief impression between the two?


----------



## mephiska

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Have you tried using the USB rather than the SPDIF? If so, could you give a brief impression between the two?


 


  There should be no difference between the two since in both cases the E17 is acting as DAC, but I only briefly tested it and didn't notice a difference.  I definitely notice a difference between the X-Fi and E9 via analog versus the E7+E9 USB combo, E7+E9 sounded much better but no nice creative DSP effects in games.
   
  Now I get the best of both worlds.


----------



## fs454

Anyone have more experience with D2000s/D5000s with the E17? I'm getting worried I made a snap decision on my order a few days ago...waiting in anticipation.


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





fs454 said:


> Anyone have more experience with D2000s/D5000s with the E17? I'm getting worried I made a snap decision on my order a few days ago...waiting in anticipation.


 


 I wouldn't be to worried about your snap decision. If it turns out the performance is not great, there would be no problem selling the E17 at full if not near full value. It is a really hot item right now.


----------



## jwusoccer

muleskinner said:


> I've not been impressed with mp4nation's handling of this preorder at all. My order still hasn't been shipped out despite reassurance that it would have gone out on Monday, and now they're saying it might not be out until next week due to extended Easter holiday in Hong Kong...
> 
> Either way, I'll be excited to try this little thing out. This is my first foray into this type of audio equipment so I look forward to the experience. I'm only using Senn. HD555's right now, but even so I'm sure the listening experience will be nicely improved.


 
  I agree with you. Mp4nation still has not told me whether or not they have shipped out my preorder. I didn't want to risk ordering from miccastore and returning it with a restocking fee, so i am still waiting on mp4nation. Also, they decided to take an "easter" break out of nowhere without any forewarning, and it looks like i won't get mine until late next week. Frankly, i have never seen something handled so poorly by a company. Mp4nation will never be getting business from me again. Next time i buy anything fiio, i'm going with miccastore. My neighbor ordered one from them, got a tracking email 1 hour later, and it will ship by thursday. I ordered mine over 2 months ago, and i still don't even know what the status of it is. Im very dissapointed in mp4nation. It's just delay after delay after delay. I should have listened to the people that said they had such horrible customer service. This is a warning for everyone who plans on pre-ordering anything from them.


----------



## jwusoccer




----------



## Darkblade48

Sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience with them. My experience ordering from them has been fine so far.
   
  Is there something wrong with taking an Easter break? Good Friday is this Friday, and then I thought many North American federal services get Easter Sunday moved to Monday as well, giving them a 4 day weekend?
   
  It is not that strange for Hong Kong to take a similar break, is it?
  Quote: 





jwusoccer said:


> I agree with you. Mp4nation still has not told me whether or not they have shipped out my preorder. I didn't want to risk ordering from miccastore and returning it with a restocking fee, so i am still waiting on mp4nation. Also, they decided to take an "easter" break out of nowhere without any forewarning, and it looks like i won't get mine until late next week. Frankly, i have never seen something handled so poorly by a company. Mp4nation will never be getting business from me again. Next time i buy anything fiio, i'm going with miccastore. My neighbor ordered one from them, got a tracking email 1 hour later, and it will ship by thursday. I ordered mine over 2 months ago, and i still don't even know what the status of it is. Im very dissapointed in mp4nation. It's just delay after delay after delay. I should have listened to the people that said they had such horrible customer service. This is a warning for everyone who plans on pre-ordering anything from them.


----------



## wilky61

Just ordered an E10 a couple days ago (to go with a new pair of Q701s) from Amazon without realizing FiiO was about to release a new model, the E17. However, the E17 is almost double the price of the E10. Should I return my E10 and opt for an E17 or just stick with my E10? Has someone compared the two already?
   
  I see, for example, that the E10 is rated for a power output of 150 mW at 32 ohms and that the E17 is rated for a power output of 215 mW at 32 ohms, but I don't really know if this is a marked improvement or not.  (The Q701s have an impedance of 62 ohms).
   
  Thanks!


----------



## xbugx

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> Sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience with them. My experience ordering from them has been fine so far.
> 
> Is there something wrong with taking an Easter break? Good Friday is this Friday, and then I thought many North American federal services get Easter Sunday moved to Monday as well, giving them a 4 day weekend?
> 
> It is not that strange for Hong Kong to take a similar break, is it?


 

 They're also taking wednesday off as well in the midst of all this and working on thursday which is odd. I think the main problem some have is that mp4nation has been sending out the units in a seemingly random order in which some people who order just a few weeks ago are getting there orders shipped while those who ordered a few months still have no idea what the status of their order is. Also they promised a 1-2 day shipping option for fedex which gave an incentive to some, but this is pretty much null since some of the orders are shipping so late.
   
  On another note I received an email when I tried to cancel saying that they already shipped over 24 hours after I ordered from Micca which is why I'm not really happy with mp4nation right now either since I have to find a way to refuse shipping for fedex which I've never done before. Also, still haven't gotten a tracking number for the item which doesn't seem very hard to do since it already shipped.


----------



## PhrozenLife

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Just ordered an E10 a couple days ago (to go with a new pair of Q701s) from Amazon without realizing FiiO was about to release a new model, the E17. However, the E17 is almost double the price of the E10. Should I return my E10 and opt for an E17 or just stick with my E10? Has someone compared the two already?
> 
> I see, for example, that the E10 is rated for a power output of 150 mW at 32 ohms and that the E17 is rated for a power output of 215 mW at 32 ohms, but I don't really know if this is a marked improvement or not.  (The Q701s have an impedance of 62 ohms).
> 
> Thanks!


 


  Why yes it has been compared to, there's a review by headfonia that's quite short and concise in its comparisons but it should be good enough to give you an idea. Here's the link http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/
  There's also some comparisons made against the e10 and e17's sound quality at the first page of this thread, the e17 review itself. Lol


----------



## panzerfan

I am in the same boat. 
   
  I ordered on the 29th of Feb and even now I haven't gotten a word from MP4 Nation about anything. 
   
  I think that their holiday schedule announcement is what made many of the waiting customers indignant. The kind of perception that this gives to us the customers is quite distasteful. 
   
  Here's to hoping that come tomorrow, MP4 Nation would do better to address the shipping fiasco. As I'm in Canada I can't really opt Micca Store... (maybe I should look for Canadian dealers next time)


----------



## PhrozenLife

Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> I am in the same boat.
> 
> I ordered on the 29th of Feb and even now I haven't gotten a word from MP4 Nation about anything.
> 
> ...


 
  I also live in Canada, I ordered my e17 from headphonebar and they shipped within 2 days of payment.
  you should give them a try next time. ^^


----------



## cerabim

The holidays in this week are very special ones for Chinese people because it is a time to pay respect to the ancestors. While some might take a day or two off, and some might have to take the whole week off depends on how far they have to travel within China where their ancestors are buried. Look at it this way, while many of you are on Easter holidays, FiiO staffs will be working during those days as they don't celebrate Easter... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I have no problem with mp4nation as they do get things done. The waiting is painful but it has been huge numbers of orders going through mp4nation. They will have to do a lot of logistic just to post out the stock.
   
  Patient is the way to go!


----------



## wilky61

Is MP4 Nation's website having problems or something? I have tried for the past 75 or so minutes to place an order for the E17 on their site with every credit card, Paypal account, and bank account I possess... to no avail.
   
  Where besides MP4 Nation can this thing be purchased? I just want get an order confirmation email already...


----------



## PhrozenLife

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Is MP4 Nation's website having problems or something? I have tried for the past 75 or so minutes to place an order for the E17 on their site with every credit card, Paypal account, and bank account I possess... to no avail.
> 
> Where besides MP4 Nation can this thing be purchased? I just want get an order confirmation email already...


 

 If you live in the U.S. you could try miccastore as they seem to impress alot of their customers.


----------



## xbugx

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Is MP4 Nation's website having problems or something? I have tried for the past 75 or so minutes to place an order for the E17 on their site with every credit card, Paypal account, and bank account I possess... to no avail.
> 
> Where besides MP4 Nation can this thing be purchased? I just want get an order confirmation email already...


 

 Depends what country you're in, there's micca store and head direct for those in the the US. Otherwise this might help you a bit:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/603892/latest-shipments-of-alpen-e17-update-on-3rd-april


----------



## Razor-BladE

I thought they said they could send out units to all preorders by end of this month. I received my delivery confirmation + tracking number email end of March (30th to be precise). I preordered mid Jan. Can't wait to trying it out!


----------



## wilky61

After much trial and tribulation (and a couple calls to my credit card issuer), I have finally succeeded in ordering the E17 from MP4 Nation for $132.50 (after the promo code FB2012FIVER). Hopefully now they don't take all of this month to ship and all of next month to travel through the mail.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can't wait to try this little device out!


----------



## Darkblade48

Ahhh yes, I completely forgot about the fact that April 4th is "Qing Ming" day....("festival" seems like a wrong translation for what is supposed to be a somber day). It is a national holiday in Hong Kong, Macau, and China, so it is not a surprise Mp4nation took the day off.
  Quote: 





cerabim said:


> The holidays in this week are very special ones for Chinese people because it is a time to pay respect to the ancestors. While some might take a day or two off, and some might have to take the whole week off depends on how far they have to travel within China where their ancestors are buried. Look at it this way, while many of you are on Easter holidays, FiiO staffs will be working during those days as they don't celebrate Easter...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wilky61

I'm going to ask this here because I don't see a better place in this forum otherwise to post this, but I'm very new at all of this and still learning as I go along... I don't quite understand the relationship between voltage, current, impedance, and power. I recall the equations V=I*R and P = V*I (and also that R/Z are interchangeable), but I don't know how all of this fits together.

 Are there any known values/constants that also play into these equations? Does V = 12V or is Current fixed or something?

 Okay, and here's my specific scenario: I have been looking at a pair of headphones that have an impedance of 62 ohms.

 One amp I examined produces an output of 200 mW at 16 ohms, 150 mW at 32 ohms, and 28 mW at 300 ohms.
 Another amp I saw produces an output of 277 mW at 16 ohms, 215 mW at 32 ohms, and 35 mW at 300 ohms.

 1.) How would I be able to interpolate the output power of these two amps at ~62 ohms?
 2.) How much power is enough for these headphones? Is there such thing as a "magic number"?
 (If it helps, I have also found that the headphones have a sensitivity of 105 dB SPL/V and a max input power of 200 mW.)


----------



## tme110

You dont need to find any fancy physics equations for that, it's just math.  You provided 3 data points which is enough to define a curve -  all that's left is to interpolate.  It may not be perfect but more than close enough.  If you don't know how to do that just put each of the three data points in excel and plot them.  Then you can interpolate visually or right click on the curve, select curve fit equation and plug and chug the numbers yourself.
   
  There is no magic number but just based on experience those power numbers are more than sufficient to power low impedance cans.  The only outlier is if they were terribly inefficient but you have a sensitivity value.  Though to make it easier: if max power for the phones is 200mw then listening power would be far below that and that alone tell you that you're good.


----------



## tme110

And just for future thought - don't commit to memory that R and Z are interchangeable.  For all intensive purposes what they physically represent can be considered similar but mathematically they are very different. (well, the numbers may not work out is the point).


----------



## wilky61

Thanks for the reply, tme110. Yeah, I know how to draw up a scatter plot with some data points in Excel... but I was thinking, since power and impedance are inversely related, should I graph power vs. 1/impedance and then run a linear regression?
   
  Sorry, I am kind of a math geek, so I am interested to learn some of the in's and out's of what I'm doing with my first audiophile setup. 
  I'm also not really sure what you mean by "you have a sensitivity value." What I mean is that I don't really understand the value/use of a sensitivity value of 105 dB SPL/V.
   
  Quote: 





tme110 said:


> You dont need to find any fancy physics equations for that, it's just math.  _*You provided 3 data points which is enough to define a curve -  all that's left is to interpolate.  It may not be perfect but more than close enough.*_  If you don't know how to do that just put each of the three data points in excel and plot them.  Then you can interpolate visually or right click on the curve, select curve fit equation and plug and chug the numbers yourself.
> 
> There is no magic number but just based on experience those power numbers are more than sufficient to power low impedance cans.  The only outlier is if they were terribly inefficient but you have a sensitivity value.  Though to make it easier: if max power for the phones is 200mw then listening power would be far below that and that alone tell you that you're good.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> I'm going to ask this here because I don't see a better place in this forum otherwise to post this, but I'm very new at all of this and still learning as I go along... I don't quite understand the relationship between voltage, current, impedance, and power. I recall the equations V=I*R and P = V*I (and also that R/Z are interchangeable), but I don't know how all of this fits together.
> 
> Are there any known values/constants that also play into these equations? Does V = 12V or is Current fixed or something?
> 
> ...


 

 R and Z are not interchangeable unless the impedance Z is made up of pure resistance. But for all that matters we can say they are interchangeable. And if you don't mind me asking, which headphones? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yes, the sensitivity (SPL/V?? I normally see dB/mW... dB is the unit for SPL so that's fine, but V?) as well as the impedance are important. How much output power you truly need will depend on your hearing and preferences.
  I gotta change classrooms now but I can tell you that 62ohms@105dB/mW can be run perfectly fine out of portable sources without even an amp. So in the event that you may be wondering if any specific amp is powerful enough to power your headphones, then yes, more than so.
   
  I don't know how amps work sadly. I am assuming battery powered ones like these run on constant voltage with increasing current... but that is just a random guess.


----------



## wilky61

The headphones are the AKG Q701s, kalbee (which have a rep for being hard to drive despite their fairly low impedance, no?)
  If I understand enough about these power/impedance numbers, I am thinking the stronger of those two amps ought to handle them just fine, though...
  
  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> R and Z are not interchangeable unless the impedance Z is made up of pure resistance. But for all that matters we can say they are interchangeable. And if you don't mind me asking, which headphones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kalbee

Ah the Q701! In that case I got experience with those. Yes indeed they don't sound good without proper amping, even if you get the proper output power level. All this is in yet another realm of amps I do not understand and I'm afraid might have nothing to do with ohm law. Perhaps it's about L and C balancing in total Z... No idea. But they can still be driven to proper audible volume out of the likes of an iPod, they just don't sound nearly as good that way.

What are the two amps you are looking at? Generally for AKG it is easier to look at documented cases of amps with good synergy. Personally I found the e17 pretty good with the Q701 but I have only experience with dealing with the E17 and E9. Certainly not a broad enough perspective... But if any of those two figure in your amp of choice then it will work; just unsure of how much of the so called full potential it can bring out. Sorry!

I can give you more impressions of Q701 with E17 when I get home if you fancy.

The colour of the headphone chosen (assuming it comes in a variety like the Q701 does) slightly affects the sound too I hear, and it is quite plausible.


----------



## wilky61

The E17 is in fact the DAC/amp I was planning on pairing with the Q701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (The E10 was the weaker of those two listed.)
  EDIT: I just got the black headphones, though, because they were the cheapest at the time! Personally, I think the white look the best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Ah the Q701! In that case I got experience with those. Yes indeed they don't sound good without proper amping, even if you get the proper output power level. All this is in yet another realm of amps I do not understand and I'm afraid might have nothing to do with ohm law. Perhaps it's about L and C balancing in total Z... No idea. But they can still be driven to proper audible volume out of the likes of an iPod, they just don't sound nearly as good that way.
> What are the two amps you are looking at? Generally for AKG it is easier to look at documented cases of amps with good synergy. Personally I found the e17 pretty good with the Q701 but I have only experience with dealing with the E17 and E9. Certainly not a broad enough perspective... But if any of those two figure in your amp of choice then it will work; just unsure of how much of the so called full potential it can bring out. Sorry!
> I can give you more impressions of Q701 with E17 when I get home if you fancy.
> The colour of the headphone chosen (assuming it comes in a variety like the Q701 does) slightly affects the sound too I hear, and it is quite plausible.


----------



## civictyper16

Quote: 





fs454 said:


> Anyone have more experience with D2000s/D5000s with the E17? I'm getting worried I made a snap decision on my order a few days ago...waiting in anticipation.


 


  I'm in the same boat as you. I never owned a (dac/amp) before and I wanted something inexpensive(e7,e10). But I jumped the gun as the e17  is a huge improvement over the e7. I did read one post that said it makes the D2k sound bright.... which is a bit worrying, as I want a warm sound. But I won't know for sure until I try it myself.  I ordered the e17 from the miccastore. Their shipping is incredible; it shipped out like an hour after purchase.
   
  I went from gummy's to D2K+Gr06+e17. Haven't summed up the courage to look at my bank statement.


----------



## djsquared

I don't know what's the more ridiculous: ordering the E17 back on Feb 19, mp4nation telling me that my order would be sent out last Friday but instead  sending me FedEx info yesterday with today as a delivery date, then not receiving the E17 and checking the FedEx tracking site, which now lists the E17 as merely "info received--check back later"--OR--my impatience at this whole thing to the point where I'll sacrifice all that I love about competent correct grammatical composition in favor of a ranting run-on. Do you?


----------



## hyogen

i know it's buried in this huge thread, but seriously.....why support a company like mp4nation?  there was a guy who bought his from mp4nation and it was defective.  They would NOT do anything about it...........................    
   
  again, i'm super happy I ordered from micca store and cancelled my preorder from mid-february.  I've been astounded at how much they over-delivered on the expectations


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> i know it's buried in this huge thread, but seriously.....why support a company like mp4nation?  there was a guy who bought his from mp4nation and it was defective.  They would NOT do anything about it...........................
> 
> again, i'm super happy I ordered from micca store and cancelled my preorder from mid-february.  I've been astounded at how much they over-delivered on the expectations


 


  Prior to this order I had no experience with mp4nation, nor did I know of anyone else's experience--good or bad. They were the only ones offering a pre-order for the second batch in February. Plus, apparently it's too late to cancel now. If the E17 works, then great. If not, then back it goes and I'll re-order from Micca.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





djsquared said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 hehe, I wasn't scolding you for ordering from mp4nation--sorry if I came off that way.  I am more disgusted at mp4nation the more and more I hear about stories just like yours...and worse.  I said something (not too caustic) on their facebook to call them out a little....and they responded very defensively....lol.  There were quite a few complaints from people who just ordered recently on their facebook as well--those who didn't know of all the other people they had left out to dry for months...!


----------



## Chinafbi

Update:  I said earlier in my posts that the e17 made my hd598 sounds bright.   I'm going to change it now.  Today, I tried to use the original 3.5mm adapter from sennheiser instead of the adapter i bought from grado.  It sounds a lot better now.  Will keep update.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





chinafbi said:


> Update:  I said earlier in my posts that the e17 made my hd598 sounds bright.   I'm going to change it now.  Today, I tried to use the original 3.5mm adapter from sennheiser instead of the adapter i bought from grado.  It sounds a lot better now.  Will keep update.


 

 FYI. Sennheiser has a plug adapter (6.5mm female to 3.5mm stereo phone plug) (model number: 092595) like grado one but the total length is only about 6 inches. It is included with HD515, HD555, HD560, HD595 and HD650. You can purchase the plug adapter separately at Sennheiser store (link below) for about $5+. Use the model number to search for this adapter.
   
http://shop.sennheiserusa.com/retail2002/


----------



## mattgreenrocks

Will that sound better than a Radio Shack adapter? That's what I'm using currently.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> hehe, I wasn't scolding you for ordering from mp4nation--sorry if I came off that way.  I am more disgusted at mp4nation the more and more I hear about stories just like yours...and worse.  I said something (not too caustic) on their facebook to call them out a little....and they responded very defensively....lol.  There were quite a few complaints from people who just ordered recently on their facebook as well--those who didn't know of all the other people they had left out to dry for months...!


 


  This is the problem with any company who is marching towards monopoly in the market. Since mp4nation is the preferred distributor by FIIO we are bound to order there


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





mattgreenrocks said:


> Will that sound better than a Radio Shack adapter? That's what I'm using currently.


 

 Sorry. Not sure about the sound quality compare to the Radio Shack adapter cause I don't have the Radio Shack adapter. This Sennheiser adapter is gold plated, feels solid and heavy (not super heavy).


----------



## ClieOS

visanj said:


> This is the problem with any company who is marching towards monopoly in the market. Since mp4nation is the preferred distributor by FIIO we are bound to order there




Who told you mp4nation is the "preferred" distributor of FiiO or you just make that up?


----------



## kalbee

mp4nation is just located the closest to FiiO, so naturally things reach there faster. FiiO clearly states over and over again that you should buy locally as much as possible. Pretty much denies any claims of mp4nation being the preferred distributor.
   
  The problem you guys encountered with mp4nation is just a very common case of overbooking. I've had to deal with overbooked flights and buses, and it's essentially the same idea. The companies that do this and wash their hands from responsibilities is a lack of ethics. Business and ethic doesn't quite go hand in hand for every company...
  On the bright side, they are one of the few companies that provide the amount of products shipped worldwide as they do. For that I am appreciative.


----------



## mattgreenrocks

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Sorry. Not sure about the sound quality compare to the Radio Shack adapter cause I don't have the Radio Shack adapter. This Sennheiser adapter is gold plated, feels solid and heavy (not super heavy).


 

 No problem. Just hoping someone sees this and can chime in. I'm surprised you found a difference, honestly.


----------



## ngocanhnguyen

Why i cant get a refund form mp4 if they dont provide me a tracking number of my E17? instead they gave me a bs story like i said here http://www.mp4nation.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=24469&start=15


----------



## ClieOS

ngocanhnguyen said:


> Why i cant get a refund form mp4 if they dont provide me a tracking number of my E17? instead they gave me a bs story like i said here http://www.mp4nation.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=24469&start=15




The question is, do you order your E17 with trackable shipping? If yes, obviously you need to file a support ticket and ask them to provide you with the tracking and you can't cancel it until you return the package. If not, you are the one that taking the risk of not having a trackable shipping in the first place and I can't see any company, even Amazon, will cancel order than has already been shipped out. Of course, you can suspect they didn't ship it out at all and just lie to you, but do you have any proof? You should try to resolve it with the mp4nation in a reasonable manner, pulling out a old video clip really doesn't help you in any way.


----------



## visanj

@Clieos, I really apologise for posting wrong info. I infer from some other website/reviews where they state that they received FIIO product (for review) from mp4nation officially. Probably that was a wrong inference. Really sorry for that


----------



## visanj

I'm trying to login into mp4nation website and I'm unable to login. May I know if anyone else is facing this issue?


----------



## Fortunex

Picked up my E17 from the Headphone Bar today. Cool stuff, very solidly built, software seems great, haven't had the chance to fiddle around with it too much.


----------



## hyogen

Just listened to my first fiio amp today! An E6 I got for my friend as a gift. Not bad! Doesn't drive the dt880 250 ohm, but definitely sounds more alive and way more loud. Drives the triplefi10 fine....but there isn't as nearly as much soundstage as i get with tf10 and wolfson + voodoo 5db amp in nexus S.....or nexus with no amping and trends hybrid tube amp.

Also the sound is way colder than either I mentioned above. 

I hope E17 will DRIVE my dt880 like my amp or even just the nexus s did.......and I hope it's not as cold sounding as the e6.... Of course the e6 wasn't burned in at all....so maybe that was why it sounded so cold to me. 

I guess I prefer the warm, liquid sound. If that can't be achieved with e17....what will? A ray Samuels sr-71 blackbird for like $500?

Really sad my little dot mk3 isn't here yet. Gonna file claim with PayPal soon. Even the trends hybrid tube amp isn't as warm as I was expecting. A pure hybrid one should be, though, I'm guessing.


----------



## Khaine775

I am sorry to hear about all in here who have had bad experiences with mp4nation. 
   
  This is my first time doing business with them, so I must admit that I was a little anxious after reading about how badly a lot of people have been treated by them. I'm also one of the people who, when asking them on an update (actually, I tried to cancel and get it from somewhere else, since a lot of places seem to have it in stock now) on my E17 order, but they said it wasn't possible because it had already shipped out. I was like "woot?!", because I had ordered it with FedEx tracking and hadn't received a tracking number or anything else that would indicate it had shipped. 
   
  10mins ago I was about to send them a new rant-mail and a mail popped into my inbox right as I'm about to start writing.
   
  "Item mailed out" 
   
  YEAH!!
   
  Good luck to everyone else with their mp4nation order, but I'm sure it's a mix of overwhelming amounts of orders and holidays that make them seem unprofessional.


----------



## visanj

Could anyone please tell me, will there be any problem in shipping to India? I'm from India and I have ordered from mp4nation instead of local distributor


----------



## Bleether

I suspect that many people who are upset with mp4nation are mostly those who realize they could have ordered the E17 from Miccastore and receive it faster. Lets not forget that the reason many preordered the second batch from mp4nation was for a couple different reasons:
   
  1. No other site was offering preorder.
  2. No one really knew if it was going to sell out quickly like the first batch did.
   
  So now it turns out that there are enough E17's for everyone, and those that want to be instantly gratified are raising hell over a slight delay. Had it turned out that the E17 sold out as fast as the first batch did, i doubt there would be so many complaints.
   
  This is pure speculation, but i am sure they took on way more orders than they should have so they are probably swamped. To make matters worse it so happens that its some sort of holiday over in China right now, but I distinctly remember a disclaimer on the preorder warning that there may be delays in shipping this product.
   
  ...anyways that just my 2 cents on this shipping debacle lol.


----------



## Bleether

I forgot to mention that i preordered from mp4nation, and i have had no problems. They shipped it on Friday, and i received a confirmation email with tracking number. It reached Singapore yesterday, and who knows how long and where it has to go before it reaches California.
   
  I'm not complaining though, i knew that i probably was not going to see the device till the second or third week of April.


----------



## dboyce

What's the appropriate gain setting for low impedance headphones? I'm using Grado SR60s. Am I right in thinking that I should just set the gain to 0 to reduce noise?


----------



## bowei006

dboyce said:


> What's the appropriate gain setting for low impedance headphones? I'm using Grado SR60s. Am I right in thinking that I should just set the gain to 0 to reduce noise?




You wil know when you get it. Set it to the lowest gain possible that gives you enough volume. I dont know how driveable the Grados are so it would be up to you to do some testing.


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





bleether said:


> I suspect that many people who are upset with mp4nation are mostly those who realize they could have ordered the E17 from Miccastore and receive it faster. *Lets not forget that the reason many preordered the second batch from mp4nation was for a couple different reasons:*
> 
> *1. No other site was offering preorder.*
> *2. No one really knew if it was going to sell out quickly like the first batch did.*
> ...


 

 I know I've made a bit of noise in this thread regarding my frustrations with ordering the E17 from mp4nation, and it's for the exact reasons you mentioned. I understand holidays and product stocking delays. No worries there, as far as those reasons are concerned. I hope my frustrations have been communicated reasonably, though, and I'm not classified as one who has "raised hell."
   
  BUT, can I rant a minute? (Feel free to scroll to the next post as the rest of mine is pure whining.)
   
  I will admit that I usually suffer from instant-gratification-itus, but in this case I've:
  (1) ordered in mid-February and waited over two months for Fiio (not mp4nation--no blame there!) to re-stock their suppliers, then
  (2) was told by mp4nation that pre-orders would be shipped in first-come-first-served order (as was listed on their website), then
  (3) when I saw mp4nation had restocked the E17, I waited a week then asked when my order would ship--they told me it would ship at the end of that next week, and then
  (4) I find out here that people who ordered their E17 in mid- to late- March have already received their order but mine still isn't even registering on FedEx's tracking website (so much for that generous free gift of free FedEx shipping; I should have asked for a free set of cheap-o IEMs...).
   
  Ok, there. Hell hath  officially been raised 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Peace and love.


----------



## razzer001

Lots of love here for MP4 Nation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am really sorry we couldn't update everyone as soon as we could.
   
  I didn't really think people would be so upset that it took us 3 working days to get literally hundreds and hundreds of E17 preorders along with hundreds and hundreds of Brainwavz M1, M2, M3 orders out at the same time.  I also need to point out that on our site we do mention that when things start to get very busy orders can take upto 3 working days to ship out instead of the normal 1 working day.
   
  Naturally if we had thought it would have taken more than 3 days to get everything out we would have informed people there was a delay, _but there was not._
   
  We got the E17 last Friday evening and started to get what we could by the end of the working day, the weekend followed and our offices are closed. We resumed on Monday and by end of Tuesday most preorders had been shipped or packed and ready to be picked up. There was a public holiday on Wednesday (grave cleaning festival) with work today. Whatever remaining preorders were left to ship along with normal orders (be it E17, M1, M2 or M3) went out the door. Friday begins Easter public holidays which last through Monday. If the circumstances were different and there was no weekend and a mid week holiday i doubt there would be people even remotely upset with us, but unfortunately we can't change when stock arrives or when a weekend comes or move public holidays.
   
  Now with the updating of each order, the current system we have makes updating large amounts of orders to take time. This seems to be where most people are upset that they did not get tracking, i am sorry orders were not updated faster but we are bit short handed with staff, most people were helping with the packing and some people had taken leave for their own holidays. As of right now nearly all orders have been updated. Most orders were not updated in the order they were placed but rather in random, but we did process orders from oldest first with the exception of Hong Kong orders and those that choose EMS, both of which were a handful, we got these out on Friday.
   
  Support ticket replies also slowed during the last few days due to the holidays and that everyone was working towards getting everything out, but that too is back upto speed. If you do not see a reply to your ticket in your inbox please manually check the ticket incase our reply got filtered into your spam box.
   
  Just to sum up, hundreds of preorders did swamp us to the point we simply could not send everything out in the same day, it took a total of 3 days to get every ones order out. We put more effort in getting orders out first then updating tracking, we worked on doing updating tracking when the more crucial packing and getting preorders out was pretty much done. If we had updated orders how we normally do, then it would have taken us longer and we might not have been able to get everything out in time before the long weekend holidays here in Hong Kong.
   
  Again sorry we couldn't get things done quicker and sorry that we couldn't updated everyone with their tracking right away, but i hope we can be forgiven. There are a few things the new site we will have at the end of April to help make updating orders much more speedier, so i don't expect not to have such a bottleneck in updating large preorders like this again.
   
  Have a happy easter and enjoy your E17.
   
   
  PS @Whoever said someone got a defect and we did nothing can you please post or msg me the ticket number. We never do nothing, we always do something, it might not be what the buyer wanted but we do work to getting people working products when they get products that are not working properly.


----------



## razzer001

Quote: 





djsquared said:


> (4) I find out here that people who ordered their E17 in mid- to late- March have already received their order but mine still isn't even registering on FedEx's tracking website (so much for that generous free gift of free FedEx shipping; I should have asked for a free set of cheap-o IEMs...).
> 
> Ok, there. Hell hath  officially been raised
> 
> ...


 


  Message we your order number if your fedex number is still not active.


----------



## bowei006

^I never knew MP4Nation had an Head Fi account. Well here it is guys. 

Anyway thanks for the reply! I had a feeling that many people that DID get units from mp4nation never spoke about it and the ones that didnt just got post hungry.


----------



## panzerfan

Raz, the major reason for this backlash, as stated before, is the fact that *MP4 Nation struck the wrong chord* within the last few days, which made those of us that have lined up for the past 2 months feel agitated. This sort of backorder swamp is understandable, but the problem arise the moment when *people question whether or not if MP4 Nation is acting in good faith*. The *consumers simply did not know* *of MP4 Nation's situation*, and we as such would be incensed from perception of back-pedaling, irrelevance, apathy and so forth.
   
  The customer anticipated that MP4 Nation would follow through its estimates by the letter, when it stated that it would ship the E17 on Friday the 30th and Monday the 2nd, as per estimate of MP4 Nation. When that date slipped,* MP4 Nation did not give any immediate prompt of delay to the customers that would be affected*, leaving the customers to speculate as to what might have happened. 
   
  When the update on Facebook on the 3rd of April came about, informing the public about the incoming statutory holidays, the *customers **did not register that well*. The customers felt as if MP4 Nation was neglecting their promise of delivery. To second bowei006, customers that have received such confirmation and/or received the unit within the last few days would not actively come to declare that all is well. That comment over getting post hungry hit the nail on the head. *Customers were starved for information/clarification from MP4 Nation over the unexplained further delay from initial projection.*
   
  I raise that your post should be circulated to all the affected customers, as it renders proper account to what had happened. It is of this poster's opinion that *MP4 Nation should actively stifle out rumor mills and not let it fester*. Much of this grief would have been unnecessary. Having said that, having the matter at hand resolved is the most important thing of all.
   
   
  PS: I got my shipping confirmation; all's well with the world.


----------



## razzer001

I actually did mention it on FB, its just nestled in the post with 58 replies on the E17 delivery, i guess people opted to not repost here that things were taking longer to update. I don't frequent Head-fi much so i really wasn't aware so many were worried, i would have made a better announcement otherwise. I do recommend always trying to contact us direct through our support ticket if you need to follow up with your order, although support tickets this week took a little longer than the normal 12hr-1 working day response time, we still managed to reply to most under 2 working days.


----------



## djsquared

Thank you for the response; that is an eminently reasonable reply, and my opinion of mp4nation was never higher than it is now. I look forward to hearing the E17, and to doing future business with you.
  
  Quote: 





razzer001 said:


> Lots of love here for MP4 Nation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## fortitude

I was an early feb pre-order and was also quite angered by the chain of events, early this week I received a fed-ex tracking on the order. However, according to Fed-ex it's only a shipping submittal the actual product hasn't been picked up 3 days later. It's this type of constant excuse to delay that is extremely frustrating.


----------



## musicinmymind

I never had issues with MP4 Nations, I ordered E17 on Jan 12 and got it on April 2, but each time I raise a ticket for status got back good replay


----------



## panzerfan

I supposed fortitude has answered my last lingering question about actual delivery date. Given that the confirmation of the 5th was merely a notice out to fedex, and the fact that MP4 Nation will not return to work until the 10th (afterwork, 9th in N. America), the earliest ETA could be said to be 12th or 13th of April.


----------



## fortitude

Exactly why there is a level of increased anxiety among MP4nation customers. My shipping tag was created 4/3 and the item will basically sit idle in a backroom for about a week before even being picked up. Like a previous poster said, with these additional delays the 'free fed-ex' shipping was wasted and should have gotten the free IEMs instead.


----------



## panzerfan

fortitude is right. FedEx has been rendered moot. Delivery time critical was the real reason for using FedEx delivery in the first place...
   
  In the interest of full disclosure, I wanted this thing before the 11th because I have to fly off to Europe on the 12th... and made that preorder at the end of February thinking just that. What wishful thinking I have. 
   
  I suppose I do feel frustrated. I am getting quite selfish here. Sigh. 
   
  Going back on topic. Has anyone managed to use Cyanogen 7 or 9, or use any other Android device with E17 yet? I know of the Archos as the only case where there's USB Audio support.


----------



## Erikesp

I got an email from Fed Ex that it was shipped yesterday and scheduled delivery date is tomorrow.   Seem fast but we will see.   I pre-ordered not being in a rush about getting it.  So the delay is no big deal to me.  Looking forward to checking it out.


----------



## daveisthemusic

I live in the UK and just want to give a big thumbs up for hifiheadphones, ordered yesterday on the standard postage and received my E17 today!


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]Few more days with E17 and find it more clear and clean then Realtek on Del XPS. On low vol, I was hardly able to notice first 8 sec of this song , [/size][size=medium]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gync3Z36RE[/size][size=medium] with E17 it is very clear.[/size]
  [size=medium]I am big fan of EQ and track this thread closely, [/size][size=medium]http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial[/size][size=medium]. With E17 I do not get any EQ, other than ineffective FooBar’s one, EQ by Realtek was very effective but do not work for E17.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Any suggestion on EQ with E17.[/size]


----------



## Darkblade48

Are you using the built in equalizer in Foobar? Why not consider using a different parametric equalizer, such as ElectriQ?


----------



## musicinmymind

Thanks, ElectriaQ lead me to this thread will check it now
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


----------



## musicinmymind

Trying "Laid-back" Configuration, huge build on SQ for better Ofcourse, will follow this thread and try out more options
   
  Thanks, Darkblade48


----------



## pipe-dream

Just ordered my E17 this morning! Should be at work by monday


----------



## Darkblade48

Despite being new here, I'm glad I could be of some help.
  
  Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Trying "Laid-back" Configuration, huge build on SQ for better Ofcourse, will follow this thread and try out more options
> 
> Thanks, Darkblade48


----------



## FoxSpirit

Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> fortitude is right. FedEx has been rendered moot. Delivery time critical was the real reason for using FedEx delivery in the first place...
> 
> In the interest of full disclosure, I wanted this thing before the 11th because I have to fly off to Europe on the 12th... and made that preorder at the end of February thinking just that. What wishful thinking I have.
> 
> ...


 


 Huh, what Archos?? *peaks ears*


----------



## panzerfan

Refer to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1539576 for the whole low-down on usbaudio.c and how that there's already Android devices that can work with USB DAC.
  Note the mentioning of Archos G9 and how that it can work with E17 and a Logitech USB speaker.
   
http://www.jbmm.fr/2012/01/utiliser-le-dac-fiio-e17-avec-son-archos/ is a French blog post that shows Firmware 3.2.77 for the aforementioned Archos G9 working with E17. Archos 70b IT would apparently work in auxiliary, if I am reading this post right. The French poster further clarified on XDA that he's currently running 4.0.5 on 80G9 ES2.1 and 101G9 ES2.2, as well as Archos 10" 250 go.


----------



## FoxSpirit

Damn, a tablet. If it had been a pmp I might have jumped for my portable rig. *sigh*
  E 17 + portable USB source would prolly be all the portable SQ I could ever want. If not, I'll get an E11 to stack it fully


----------



## panzerfan

That, or any phone that's running Cyanogenmod 7/9... I think Nexus S, Nexus One...


----------



## wilky61

Opened up a ticket with MP4Nation and asked if they could cancel my order... unfortunate timing for me with the extended holiday, but I am just way too impatient to power up my new headphones...


----------



## fortitude

my fed-ex tracking was finally updated this morning, the shipping tag was created on 4/3 but not actually picked up until 4/6 showing a delivery of 4/9. Would have been nice to have it for the weekend, but it appears to be finally moving.


----------



## panzerfan

Ooo. My Fiio E17 is actually on its way! It was picked up on the 6th and left the origin facility of Chaiwan HK, and now over Lantau island. An apology on my part is needed for being pessimistic...


----------



## SONIC BOOM

giving everyone a heads up b&h has the e17 in stock, I ordered one yesterday and should be getting it sometime today   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839353-REG/Fiio_E17_E17_USB_DAC_Headphone.html


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





fortitude said:


> my fed-ex tracking was finally updated this morning, the shipping tag was created on 4/3 but not actually picked up until 4/6 showing a delivery of 4/9. Would have been nice to have it for the weekend, but it appears to be finally moving.


 
   
  Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> Ooo. My Fiio E17 is actually on its way! It was picked up on the 6th and left the origin facility of Chaiwan HK, and now over Lantau island. An apology on my part is needed for being pessimistic...


 
  Same here!


----------



## wilky61

Quote: 





sonic boom said:


> giving everyone a heads up b&h has the e17 in stock, I ordered one yesterday and should be getting it sometime today   http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839353-REG/Fiio_E17_E17_USB_DAC_Headphone.html


 


  It says on their website that they are closed due to passover until April 15th...


----------



## CRP0037

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> It says on their website that they are closed due to passover until April 15th...


 

 Ordered my FiiO E17 from B&H yesterday before 4:00pm, and it's already at my house today. I love this place. Every time I order something from them, if it's in stock, it goes right out the same day! No diddle daddling around. No sitting on the product for 2 or 3 days because "it's their processing time" (yea, right)...
  If UPS, or FedEX take a week to get to my house from where it's coming from, that's ok. As long as the company that is sending you out the product sends it out within a day of purchase, that's just good business. Keeps the customer happy


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

The FedEx guy just dropped off my E17!
   
  I'm already hooked up to my H140's optical out, and it sounds great. Boy I missed having a DAC for my iRiver.


----------



## ngocanhnguyen

We hate the feeling like being trapped and feeling powerless. Once the company has your hard earned cash that it......gotcha like a venus flytrap "ya aint gona go no where".....hahahaha.... Its impossible to pry off your money form their hands. just to warn people ahead of time.....
  One of their mission is not "To Rock!" but "To Trap!"


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

I just slapped CM9 on my Galaxy S Vibrant, via a nightly, and it doesn't allow Voodoo Sound stock, so I'm using Glitch Kernel Updater & latest Glitch RC High Leak Kernel (which DOES have Voodoo Sound), and voila, the SGS to E17 sounds really nice. Did I read these last couple posts right about digital via USB? anybody got a link? (Found the info I was looking for on Android 4.0 and USB Digital Out)
   
  Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> That, or any phone that's running Cyanogenmod 7/9... I think Nexus S, Nexus One...


----------



## hyogen

Glad you're liking e17 and galaxy s + voodoo. I seriously miss my nexus s.....my new iPod 5.5g sounds a little more technical...analytical? But I miss the controls and functionality of the large touchscreen a lot


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Glad you're liking e17 and galaxy s + voodoo. I seriously miss my nexus s.....my new iPod 5.5g sounds a little more technical...analytical? But I miss the controls and functionality of the large touchscreen a lot


 


  Thanks, 
   
  It's deifintiely a different sound than how I remember the iBasso D10 sounding, by a fair margin. However I think I really like the E17, and have already found a need for those treble+ and bass- controls, and I like more than a neutral amount of bass!
   
  I'm sure the iPod 5.5G sounds much less sterile than the iPhone 3G! (from my experience). Hope you find a happy medium with that. There's rockbox, and those 2 PMEQ apps for iOS available now... Not sure if the iPod 5.5G supports iApps though.


----------



## fs454

I just got mine in the mail, REALLY nice packaging, props FiiO! It's like unboxing an Apple product. 
   
  My only issue here is I can't get it to boot up. I figure the battery is dead so I plugged it into USB and tried again. It boots to the splash screen, then says "USB", and then says "Goodbye!" and turns off instantly. Does the battery need a charge even if its plugged in? I'm probably overreacting but I feel like it should power up when charging. The amber ring is lit up.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fs454 said:


> I just got mine in the mail, REALLY nice packaging, props FiiO! It's like unboxing an Apple product.
> 
> My only issue here is I can't get it to boot up. I figure the battery is dead so I plugged it into USB and tried again. It boots to the splash screen, then says "USB", and then says "Goodbye!" and turns off instantly. Does the battery need a charge even if its plugged in? I'm probably overreacting but I feel like it should power up when charging. The amber ring is lit up.


 
  With the device off. I would plug it into the computer or a high quality wall USB charger with the cable they provided. DO NOT turn the device on. Is there a red light? If yes. Then leave it there for 30 minutes and turn it on after 30 minutes. IF a red light does not appear in the circular power on and Exit button's outer circle, then plug the E17 and it's cable into another computer/device/wall charger to make sure. If the red light still does not turn on, report back.


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





crp0037 said:


> Ordered my FiiO E17 from B&H yesterday before 4:00pm, and it's already at my house today. I love this place. Every time I order something from them, if it's in stock, it goes right out the same day! No diddle daddling around. No sitting on the product for 2 or 3 days because "it's their processing time" (yea, right)...
> If UPS, or FedEX take a week to get to my house from where it's coming from, that's ok. As long as the company that is sending you out the product sends it out within a day of purchase, that's just good business. Keeps the customer happy


 
  I was able too make it there before they closed and they said they did not have it in the store but they had 9 in there warehouse in brooklyn, so they gave me free shipping and it came today  so far I love it.


----------



## fs454

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> With the device off. I would plug it into the computer or a high quality wall USB charger with the cable they provided. DO NOT turn the device on. Is there a red light? If yes. Then leave it there for 30 minutes and turn it on after 30 minutes. IF a red light does not appear in the circular power on and Exit button's outer circle, then plug the E17 and it's cable into another computer/device/wall charger to make sure. If the red light still does not turn on, report back.


 

 Yep, I left it to charge while I went to run some errands and came back and it's fine. I figured. 
   
  First impressions: It's freaking TINY. I didn't think it was this small from pictures. Sweet. A/Bing my D5000s from my iPhone 4S's 3.5mm jack to the FiiO with LOD shows incredible results. Literally it makes a world of difference, really transforms the cans. Vocals are less sibilant and way more realistic sounding, bass is so much tighter, and the soundstage is way wider I feel. 
   
  So glad I bought one. Such a nicely built little device.


----------



## panzerfan

I think it's important for all of us here burning our wallets and using gadgets to explain at what's actually going on with Android and USB external DAC. This is different from LOD, as we're trying to use the USB DAC in the same fashion as we do with Windows machines.
   
  Android phones are not made equal. Some have the ability of connecting peripherals such as USB thumb drives to them and have the phone reading the contents (referred to as USB OTG or USB host). These are the devices that stand any chance of using a USB DAC. However, as it is right now, the low-level drivers and whatnot (the underlying architecture) in the form of kernel, does not include the generic USB Audio driver, which are essential for the operation of USB DACs, or in-car audio via USB.
   
  You need to dabble with coding know-how to implement the missing drivers into Android. Unfortunately for us, adding drivers for Android devices means having the ability to edit the kernel, which vary from the Android version... or from one product to another.
   
  Cyanogenmod 7/9 are important, not because of the interface themselves, but rather, in having those USB Audio drivers embedded within the kernels made for Cyanogenmod. This means that one should be able to use USB DAC functionalities of the Fiio E17 on a phone running on Cyanogenmod 7/9, so long as the phone can read USB thumb drives when you plug the drive to the phone.
   
  It goes without saying that having this external DAC is a superior solution than using Voodoo kernel (which are tailored made for the integrated Wolfson DAC), due to a reduction of interference from onboard electronics, and having more dedicated amplification to drive the audio jack. Moreover, Optical S/PDIF out may become a possibility for Android devices, which... even for the case of E17, would mean 192K goodness.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





fs454 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mine arrived!!!  I think we both got the MINI fiio E17.   This thing is about 60% or 50% of how big and heavy I thought this was gonna be.  It is TINY....!  All the pics made it look like it was at least the size of a thick iPhone....     I'll have an easier time recommending the E11 to my friends as well, since it's about the same size. 
   
  Really looking forward to powering on this little guy.  Gotta hand it to miccastore again.  Free ground shipping--ordered on Monday morning.  Ship confirmation about 4 hours later...and arrived the same week on Friday   They even changed (at my request) my L1 to an L9 for no extra charge...came with the free Fiio t-shirt and toslink cable


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Mine arrived!!!  I think we both got* the MINI fiio E17.   This thing is about 60% or 50% of how big and heavy I thought this was gonna be.  It is TINY*....!  All the pics made it look like it was at least the size of a thick iPhone....     I'll have an easier time recommending the E11 to my friends as well, since it's about the same size.
> 
> Really looking forward to powering on this little guy.  Gotta hand it to miccastore again.  Free ground shipping--ordered on Monday morning.  Ship confirmation about 4 hours later...and arrived the same week on Friday   They even changed (at my request) my L1 to an L9 for no extra charge...came with the free Fiio t-shirt and toslink cable


 


  That was EXACTLY my first impressions as well. My photo's I have posted make it look big.. . Anyway, I'll be waiting for what you think


----------



## Fortunex

Yeah, I really thought it was the size of an iPhone-ish, but it's about half an inch narrower and an inch shorter than my iPod touch, although it's about as thick as I was expecting, maybe 3/4 of an inch.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





fortunex said:


> Yeah, I really thought it was the size of an iPhone-ish, but it's about half an inch narrower and an inch shorter than my iPod touch, although it's about as thick as I was expecting, maybe 3/4 of an inch.


 

 Judging from your avatar, I think you might like this.  you can even download it.  It's by one of my favorite trance producers--not very well known yet, but really talented.  Check it out   There are a lot of praises about it...I really don't understand--never watched My Little Pony ever...but it's actually a really good sounding trance remix--hahaha
   





  and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfyzsJutTv4
   
  Non-My little pony stuff that I was floored by when I first discovered him:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYJ65si6i0
   
  and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  --- the first 30 seconds or so...I've been begging JayB to make it into a full track.


----------



## Fortunex

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Judging from your avatar, I think you might like this.  you can even download it.  It's by one of my favorite trance producers--not very well known yet, but really talented.  Check it out   There are a lot of praises about it...I really don't understand--never watched My Little Pony ever...but it's actually a really good sounding trance remix--hahaha
> 
> 
> and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfyzsJutTv4
> ...


 

 Lol that's great, thanks.


----------



## Bobby Steel

Quote: 





fs454 said:


> First impressions: It's freaking TINY


 

  
  Yeah this... The pictures showing it next to the ipod/iphone are definitely deceiving. Mines been charging for about 3 hours, is that normal for a device new out the box?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bobby steel said:


> Yeah this... The pictures showing it next to the ipod/iphone are definitely deceiving. Mines been charging for about 3 hours, is that normal for a device new out the box?


 


  IT depends on where you have it plugged in. If it's into your computer, it depends on your USB port. Some USB ports don't give enough power(more common on laptops). IF you have it plugged into a wall charger, the circuitry of the USB Wall Charger and how much it allocates for power also matter.
   
  My first charge was with my Macbook Pro and that took 5+ hours. I have since learned and now only charge it with my desktop(3 hours) or USB wall charger(3hrs). Be sure to use a high quality USB wall charger if you choose to do so. High Quality(think Apple USB Wall charger units)  as in, don't buy the cheap ones. This is for optimal life and performance. Buying and using a cheap one of ebay won't fry your device or anything(probably, it depends on each unit and how it was made etc) but it might have an effect on battery life in the long run.


----------



## hyogen

first impression...........WOW.  a jaw-dropping WOW....!   
   
  So far I have only tried Line out from iPod 5.5g via L9 cable to E17....+ DT880 250ohm.........    I'm very pleasantly surprised.....my pretty high expectations exceeded......!!    It was on 6db gain by default which was sounded impressive....and I would have been pretty satisfied with that
  then I set it to 12dB..... I'm pretty sure DT880s are fully driven with this.  No distortion that I can hear, either.  Awesome :-D
   
  Very impressed with the bass boost as well.  Everything sounds tight and lively--best way I can describe it :-D 
   
  I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times, but...is it the best to have 100% volume on the source?  I think I remember Bowei saying that.  Actually, with LOD, it doesn't matter...(which is the only thing I've tried so far).


----------



## Bobby Steel

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> IT depends on where you have it plugged in. If it's into your computer, it depends on your USB port. Some USB ports don't give enough power(more common on laptops). IF you have it plugged into a wall charger, the circuitry of the USB Wall Charger and how much it allocates for power also matter.
> 
> My first charge was with my Macbook Pro and that took 5+ hours. I have since learned and now only charge it with my desktop(3 hours) or USB wall charger(3hrs). Be sure to use a high quality USB wall charger if you choose to do so. High Quality(think Apple USB Wall charger units)  as in, don't buy the cheap ones. This is for optimal life and performance. Buying and using a cheap one of ebay won't fry your device or anything(probably, it depends on each unit and how it was made etc) but it might have an effect on battery life in the long run.


 

 Thanks! I switched from usb charging off of the front port of my computer to my Droid wall charge. I think that should be quality enough right? ( I do have an iphone charger I could also try)
   
  It's comforting to hear it took someone else about that long on first try so thanks again, I was just worried that this was abnormal. I guess I'm used to devices coming mostly charged that take no longer than an hour to top off. After waiting so long for this thing I suppose I can wait a little longer.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> first impression...........WOW.  a jaw-dropping WOW....!
> 
> So far I have only tried Line out from iPod 5.5g via L9 cable to E17....+ DT880 250ohm.........    I'm very pleasantly surprised.....my pretty high expectations exceeded......!!    It was on 6db gain by default which was sounded impressive....and I would have been pretty satisfied with that
> then I set it to 12dB..... I'm pretty sure DT880s are fully driven with this.  No distortion that I can hear, either.  Awesome :-D
> ...


 
   

 IT is recommended to have a source(that doesn't have a Line Out option) set to 90%to 100% volume with no gain enabled(some PMP's have gain options) having DSP and EQ is not recommend for most unless you enjoy it. I just say no EQ and DSP's or sound "enhancers" as they call it as some newcommers have them enabled and don't know what they do. If you know what it is and like the DSP or enhancement then keep it on. Just leave gain at 0(if you have the option) and make the volume 90% to 100%. I have heard of many, but personally I would just set it to 100%. Setting the initial source to a lower than 100% volume could as they say "cut" bits or quality resolution out of the actual song or music. This is known, but on a PMP? I'm not sure if it does the same thing. So just set it to 100%
   
  If you are using with LOD...yeah it doesn't matter.
   

   
   
  Quote: 





bobby steel said:


> Thanks! I switched from usb charging off of the front port of my computer to my Droid wall charge. I think that should be quality enough right? ( I do have an iphone charger I could also try)
> 
> It's comforting to hear it took someone else about that long on first try so thanks again, I was just worried that this was abnormal. I guess I'm used to devices coming mostly charged that take no longer than an hour to top off. After waiting so long for this thing I suppose I can wait a little longer.


 

 Your Droid's should suffice. I was only making a deal of high quality or not to make you aware that their are differences and also a little extra knowledge doesn't hurt.
   
  Those 5 hours were grueling. I got worried and what not. It was really just my Macbook Pro and because I had it on and in use...so even longer.


----------



## civictyper16

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Mine arrived!!!  I think we both got the MINI fiio E17.   This thing is about 60% or 50% of how big and heavy I thought this was gonna be.  It is TINY....!  All the pics made it look like it was at least the size of a thick iPhone....     I'll have an easier time recommending the E11 to my friends as well, since it's about the same size.
> 
> Really looking forward to powering on this little guy.  Gotta hand it to miccastore again.  Free ground shipping--ordered on Monday morning.  Ship confirmation about 4 hours later...and arrived the same week on Friday   They even changed (at my request) my L1 to an L9 for no extra charge...came with the free Fiio t-shirt and toslink cable


 


  Miccastore, FTW!  I just received my e17, so far I'm in love with it. The sound quality off my iPod/PC improved ten-fold. The bass on my D2000 is a lot tighter, improved mids.   Micca's shipping is pretty darn fast.. plus they give you so many goodies. I was worried the XL shirt was going to fit big, but it fits perfect(medium fit).  
   
  When used with an iPod is the Lod bypass suppose to be in the lower or upper position? I'm using the L9 cable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





civictyper16 said:


> Miccastore, FTW!  I just received my e17, so far I'm in love with it. The sound quality off my iPod/PC improved ten-fold. The bass on my D2000 is a lot tighter, improved mids.   Micca's shipping is pretty darn fast.. plus they give you so many goodies. I was worried the XL shirt was going to fit big, but it fits perfect(medium fit).
> 
> When used with an iPod is the Lod bypass suppose to be in the lower or upper position? I'm using the L9 cable.


 


  IT doesn't matter unless you are using with an E9. That switch is for docking purposes.
   
  If you will be using with E9 the instructions are in the review, I'll quote them here:
   
   


> There is also a ‘LO Bypass’ switch on the right side. In the lower position (close to the words), Alpen will be in its default mode to output line level signal (fixed level, no EQ) when docked (to E9 or L7). In the upper position, Alpen will output pre-amp signal instead. In pre-amp mode, volume control and EQ will affect the output when docked.  If you don’t have any particular reason, I’ll suggest you leave the LO Bypass to the default line-out mode. If you do want the EQ to stay on the LO (LO Bypass enable), I will suggest you set Alpen to zero gain and max out on the volume (6dB gain is fine as well).  Use what even amp you are going to pair with Alpen to control volume and gain.


----------



## civictyper16

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> IT doesn't matter unless you are using with an E9. That switch is for docking purposes.
> 
> If you will be using with E9 the instructions are in the review, I'll quote them here:


 
   
  Thanks for the help! I read the instructions of Fiio's website but wasn't exactly sure.
   
  Also has anyone tried running the e17 through s/pdif at 192hz? When I try the audio crackles.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





civictyper16 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 XL shirt perfect fit on me as well (medium fit)...     Doesn't feel like cotton...more of a blend or rayon material.  I like it (prefer cotton tees, though, for comfort)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





civictyper16 said:


> Thanks for the help! I read the instructions of Fiio's website but wasn't exactly sure.
> 
> Also has anyone tried running the e17 through s/pdif at 192hz? When I try the audio crackles.


 

 I have, 192KHz support from my understanding depends on your computer's drivers and chip. What you are experiencing is more or less probably on your end. You have to first make sure your audio chip on the computer can support up to 192KHz on S/PDIF(which it seems it does), and you should update drivers. IF it still happens then it means it's just faulty. I've had many chips that were faulty at high settings(not in audio) The design of the chip can also have an effect.


----------



## jamliao

Is the E17 the best bang for the buck as a simple dac/amp for now? I really want to try.


----------



## fs454

jamliao said:


> Is the E17 the best bang for the buck as a simple dac/amp for now? I really want to try.




Definitely, I honestly expected to pay like $200+ for this thing...it's made really well and is delivering some great results.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Just saw that miccastore has this available now and gonna get it from there but I have some questions. 
   
   
  How long would it take to deliver to California?
   
  I am planning on using the E17 with my E9, do I need anything extra so I could use E9's amp and the E17's dac?  Or can I just insert the E17 into the E9 and it would automatically use E9's amp and E17's dac?
   
  Besides using my headphone and E17/E9 on my computer, I will also be using the E17 for my ipod touch, I need a LOD right?  Which LOD is the best?
   
   
   
  Also I am a complete noobie when it comes to headphones/amps so give me any other info that would be helpful.  I have the E9 and HD600s btw.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Just saw that miccastore has this available now and gonna get it from there but I have some questions.
> 
> 
> How long would it take to deliver to California?
> ...


 
   

   


> *Standard Shipping* is $4.95 and free for orders over $99.00! The standard shipping method is a ground service that takes 5 to 7 business days to reach customers after the order has shipped.


 
   
  Micca does not guarantee but says it will take 5-7 days. That seems to be accurate though.
   
  You just plug it into the E9.
   
  For best results, yes an LOD is recommended. Which LOD is best is probably not what you are asking as the best LOD probably costs more than the E17 and E9 combo combined. I think you are asking which LOD out of all of FiiO's great affordable line is best? If so then the L9 or L3. L9 is best with E17 as it is L shaped.
   
  Any additional info? Hmm, remember the LO bypass switch. Read the review and you will know how to use it and what it does. I quoted the specific section up above in another post.
  As always, don't charge it with bad faulty chargers.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Micca does not guarantee but says it will take 5-7 days. That seems to be accurate though.
> 
> You just plug it into the E9.
> 
> ...


 


  How do we charge it again?  and do they provide chargers?


----------



## JamesFiiO

We don't provide chargers because it make thing complex in Customs and lots of user already own so many USB chargers at home, I think I own more than 20 chargers at my home. lol


----------



## TheChosen0ne

So fiio L9 is best lod for ipod touch with e17?


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Nvm, I've decided on the L9 and I've now ordered the L9 and E17 from miccastore.  I can finally listen to my ipod again after 3 long months since replacing my crappy headphones for the HD600.


----------



## wilky61

I would say it depends on one's specific headphones and how one uses them (e.g., portable/home). It's a nice perk that the E17 is portable, but the equivalently priced E9+E7 combo is capable of producing a significantly greater power output... The E17 is a great all-arounder, though (higher power output + portability  = I sold my E10 to upgrade to an E17).
   
  Quote: 





jamliao said:


> Is the E17 the best bang for the buck as a simple dac/amp for now? I really want to try.


----------



## beaver316

Anybody with the Sennheiser IE80 (or even IE8) own the E17? Thoughts on pairing, sound etc?


----------



## Chinafbi

I received my e17 a few days ago from mp4nation.  I did the pre-order in February.  The shipping was fast, only took less than 3 days to ship from Hong Kong to the US.  
   
  At first, the sound was clear, tighter, but bright.  It was uncomfortable.  After a few days of burning in with my hd598, the sound is awesome.  Everything is so much better now: mid, vocal, bass.  Especially vocal is so much clearer and sweeter sounding.   The brightness is gone and is getting much smoother now.  $139 was well spent.
   
  I only use the e17 with my computer.  I don't get to use it on the go.   Maybe when I have the chance to travel or on vacation.  I wish Fiio make the e17 but for computer use only without the battery and stuff.  The price would be around $100 or maybe a little cheaper.  Then it would be so affordable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chinafbi said:


> I received my e17 a few days ago from mp4nation.  I did the pre-order in February.  The shipping was fast, only took less than 3 days to ship from Hong Kong to the US.
> 
> At first, the sound was clear, tighter, but bright.  It was uncomfortable.  After a few days of burning in with my hd598, the sound is awesome.  Everything is so much better now: mid, vocal, bass.  Especially vocal is so much clearer and sweeter sounding.   The brightness is gone and is getting much smoother now.  $139 was well spent.
> 
> I only use the e17 with my computer.  I don't get to use it on the go.   Maybe when I have the chance to travel or on vacation. * I wish Fiio make the e17 but for computer use only without the battery and stuff. * The price would be around $100 or maybe a little cheaper.  Then it would be so affordable.


 

 They do have an E17 for computer use without the battery and stuff..it's called the FiiO E10. It's only missing the power of the E17 and the EQ controls which if you are using with computer EQ doesn't matter and you can daul amp E10 for more power.
   
  $100 for such a device would be unprofitable. The term "affordable" on head-fi is a bit different. If you can buy it and still have a house and food on the table...it's affordable.


----------



## nerv

Does anyone know when Amazon will stock E17?  I know this was asked before but I didn't see any updates from using search.  I would like to purchase E17 from Amazon since I have a Prime account and I don't get charged tax.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





nerv said:


> Does anyone know when Amazon will stock E17?  I know this was asked before but I didn't see any updates from using search.  I would like to purchase E17 from Amazon since I have a Prime account and I don't get charged tax.


 

 Micca said they might put a few of their extra E17 units up on Amazon. 
   
  There are also 3 other US distro's for FiiO that are getting the E17 and they could put it online as well.


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We don't provide chargers because it make thing complex in Customs and lots of user already own so many USB chargers at home, I think I own more than 20 chargers at my home. lol


 

 Thank you for this magical box of witchcraft that is making my headphones sound better


----------



## TheChosen0ne

does miccastore provide a tracking number?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> does miccastore provide a tracking number?


 


  Yes, it is from USPS however and is innacurate. I won't trust it. The estimated date you get from them in the second or third email is more or less the day you will receive it probably.


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We don't provide chargers because it make thing complex in Customs and lots of user already own so many USB chargers at home, I think I own more than 20 chargers at my home. lol


 


  When is the e19 coming out?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sonic boom said:


> When is the e19 coming out?


 


  The last news of it pegged it to be late this year. Fall. It has been a long time, and plans change. FiiO is currently working on a new guitar amp it seems so the E19 may be pushed back or may not(depends on resources) I would not take late this year or anything to be the date to look for. There has been no news for a quarter of a year so don't dwell on it. You can ask Feiao directly though.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes, it is from USPS however and is innacurate. I won't trust it. The estimated date you get from them in the second or third email is more or less the day you will receive it probably.


 


  is the package small enough to fit in a mail box?  i might not be home when they deliver it.  or will they just leave it on the front door?  And would we get it around the time they give us our regular mail?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> is the package small enough to fit in a mail box?  i might not be home when they deliver it.  or will they just leave it on the front door?  And would we get it around the time they give us our regular mail?


 


  IT was small enough to fit yes. Well mine and most people's it seems. It was fairly compact. They may leave it at your door but it seems most get it in the mailbox. And yes, they put it in with your regular mail. No need to sign or personal hand to hand delivery that some of my packages required.


----------



## Terja

Really loving the E17 sound signature right now (much better than the E7 - more options too). Does anyone know how to keep the Gain at 0dB as the default? I notice that every time I switch off the E17 and then switch it back on the gain goes back to 6dB. I want to keep it at 0dB - thanks.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





terja said:


> Really loving the E17 sound signature right now (much better than the E7 - more options too). Does anyone know how to keep the Gain at 0dB as the default? I notice that every time I switch off the E17 and then switch it back on the gain goes back to 6dB. I want to keep it at 0dB - thanks.


 


  I would reset the unit. Mine does not exhibit this. The gain setting does not reset to 6 everytime on mine. After each turn on and off, it stays at the previous gain I set it at. For volume it is default to 20 everytime you open up the device unless you have "Volume Memory" Turned on.


----------



## hyogen

I dunno why one wouldn't use 12db gain... Sounds so full and clean still...and don't really hear any changes in balance in my opinion at least not yet.. I like bass boost as well but I am more conservative with that just out of habit. Still no distortion even at max. 

Loving the cleaaaan sound from my iPod 5.5g via L9 to e17....was able to hear a difference between 320kbps and flac! Sounds way more warm than the E6 in my opinion.. 
*
One odd thing........ * ....was hearing sputtering or white noise sound when I paused the music from my android phone and TF10....mind you this isn't a wolfsorator a good dac at all on my huawei mercury.......and the headphone jack has lots of noise but I took care of it with the sound attenuator on TF10......... So why is there a pretty loud sputtering/white noise sound when pausing music? Is it because the 12db gain is amplifying the noise so much that even the sound attenuator can't filter it out? Haven't tried the phone + dt880 though. No issues with iPod at all

I absolutely would have been happy paying $200 for this unit....and not tempted to buy anything else. About to file claim with PayPal since LIttle dot MK3 isn't here yet...(over a month since payment, 2.5 weeks since he said he would ship. No tracking.. I'm fortunate I didn't pay as gift because I could have been screwed). Even if it does arrive I am pretty sure I would sell it almost immediately with how happy I am with the E17.

Pics again from yesterday which got buried too soon! Everyone post pics of their e17 setup!



hyogen said:


>


----------



## hyogen

maybe I like the 12db gain because I have high impedance DT880s?  and "high impedance" TF10s  (with sound attenuator).  And both of these are very neutral sounding headphones? Anyone else just leave it at 12db?  maybe b/c my source is so clean (I doubt my source/files are better than most here).I dunno...definitely enjoy the more vibrant/lively/full sound  


  


Might remove the rubber bumpers from back of e17 so that this setup can fit much more easily into the fiio velvet bag


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I dunno why one wouldn't use 12db gain... Sounds so full and clean still...and don't really hear any changes in balance in my opinion at least not yet.. I like bass boost as well but I am more conservative with that just out of habit. Still no distortion even at max.
> Loving the cleaaaan sound from my iPod 5.5g via L9 to e17....was able to hear a difference between 320kbps and flac! Sounds way more warm than the E6 in my opinion..
> 
> *One odd thing........ * ....was hearing sputtering or white noise sound when I paused the music from my android phone and TF10....mind you this isn't a wolfsorator a good dac at all on my huawei mercury.......and the headphone jack has lots of noise but I took care of it with the sound attenuator on TF10......... So why is there a pretty loud sputtering/white noise sound when pausing music? Is it because the 12db gain is amplifying the noise so much that even the sound attenuator can't filter it out? Haven't tried the phone + dt880 though. No issues with iPod at all
> ...


 


  I posted this and asked it a long time ago. All questions have been answered somehere in this thread..but of course it's too long.
   
  It's the digital volume controls. Due to it's implementation it naturally will give that sputtering and white noise. This happens mainly/more frequently on 12dB and less on 6dB and even less to non existent on 0dB. To get rid of it you can usually just (with music off) raise the volume high enough until it stops(just press and hold) and then lower it back down. Sometimes it requires you to raise it to 60 and then lower it back down before it disappears. If it happens it sometimes means you shouldn't use that Gain and should be on 6dB or lower.
   
   
   
   
  If you want pictures check my signature. My albumb is suprisingly popular. 10K+ views in 2 months.


----------



## hyogen

Thanks. Yeah its only happening with my phone as the source. 

Also maybe I prefer the 12db because both of my cans are so neutral?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Thanks. Yeah its only happening with my phone as the source.
> Also maybe I prefer the 12db because both of my cans are so neutral?


 


  If you are at 20-30 on 12dB usually...kick it down to 6dB. Sure 12dB will work but to not have the sputtering noise(or less chance or noticeability of it) 12dB is meant for..legit driving. 215mW is a lot of power @32 ohms. For example an iPod Touch and most ipod's do 15mW @32 ohms(or was it 16). The comparisson is not really comparable 100% and doesn't mean as much as you think it might but it is a good comparison.


----------



## Terja

Thanks for the suggestion, I reset it and noticed it's not the E17 itself. I should have mentioned this before, but I have the E17 docked to the E9 and I checked - the reset to 6dB only happens when the unit is docked with the E9. So somehow the combination creates this default 6dB gain. I should also mention I have the LO bypass in the upper position, meaning I am using the E17 as a preamp, but I don't know whether that makes a difference. It's not a big deal really 'cause I can always reset the gain to 0dB before playback via the E9, but it's just a nuisance. I would rather not have to remember. Anything else I could try?
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I would reset the unit. Mine does not exhibit this. The gain setting does not reset to 6 everytime on mine. After each turn on and off, it stays at the previous gain I set it at. For volume it is default to 20 everytime you open up the device unless you have "Volume Memory" Turned on.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





terja said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, I reset it and noticed it's not the E17 itself. I should have mentioned this before, but I have the E17 docked to the E9 and I checked - the reset to 6dB only happens when the unit is docked with the E9. So somehow the combination creates this default 6dB gain. I should also mention I have the LO bypass in the upper position, meaning I am using the E17 as a preamp, but I don't know whether that makes a difference. It's not a big deal really 'cause I can always reset the gain to 0dB before playback via the E9, but it's just a nuisance. I would rather not have to remember. Anything else I could try?


 

 To get it to not reset? I would say no. This is not programmable and has very basic functions. What you get or happens is really what happens. Shoot Fiio (Feiao) on Head-Fi a pm if you want to ask if they can add this into the next(if there is) firmware update.


----------



## blucaller

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Loving the cleaaaan sound from my* iPod 5.5g via L9 to e17*....was able to hear a difference between 320kbps and flac! Sounds way more warm than the E6 in my opinion..


 
  Ah this got me so amped...same set-up.  Still got 2 more hours of charging to go.


----------



## Terja

Anyone else having this problem when docking the E17 to the E9? I'm trying to see if this is something peculiar to my E17 unit, my E9 unit, or the combination as a whole. Obviously if everyone using the combination has the same issue it's probably a firmware issue that Fiio will have to address.
   
  Recap: I reset it and noticed it's not the E17 itself. I should have mentioned this before, but I have the E17 docked to the E9 and I checked - the reset to 6dB only happens when the unit is docked with the E9. So somehow the combination creates this default 6dB gain.

  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> To get it to not reset? I would say no. This is not programmable and has very basic functions. What you get or happens is really what happens. Shoot Fiio (Feiao) on Head-Fi a pm if you want to ask if they can add this into the next(if there is) firmware update.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





terja said:


> Anyone else having this problem when docking the E17 to the E9? I'm trying to see if this is something peculiar to my E17 unit, my E9 unit, or the combination as a whole. Obviously if everyone using the combination has the same issue it's probably a firmware issue that Fiio will have to address.
> 
> Recap: I reset it and noticed it's not the E17 itself. I should have mentioned this before, but I have the E17 docked to the E9 and I checked - the reset to 6dB only happens when the unit is docked with the E9. So somehow the combination creates this default 6dB gain.


 
  This isn't an issue. This is programming. Just like how some users found the fact that you had to double press the volume buttons after a set period of inactivity to be weird. IT was programmed to be like this. I don't know or think FiiO will release an update JUST for this. If enough users with E17 and E9 complain or ask about it then they probably will.(if you ask and say please hard enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Terja

Pretty please ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... with a cherry on top ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? It's a useability issue and probably an oversight on Fiio's part, otherwise they would have let the default gain go back to 6bD each time, even when the unit is undocked. bowei006 if you have the combo could you check to see if this is happening with your combo as well. You can PM me if you want and therefore keep the dastardly truth out of harm's way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> This isn't an issue. This is programming. Just like how some users found the fact that you had to double press the volume buttons after a set period of inactivity to be weird. IT was programmed to be like this. I don't know or think FiiO will release an update JUST for this. If enough users with E17 and E9 complain or ask about it then they probably will.(if you ask and say please hard enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## daveisthemusic

Quote:


bowei006 said:


> My first charge was with my Macbook Pro and that took 5+ hours.


 


  Oh, really? When I first received mine, I ripped open the box and turned it on, looked through the menus, turned it off, charged it for about an hour at which point I couldn't wait any more, turned it on and started listening with my laptop while continuing to charge. By doing this will I have decreased the battery's lifespan / life per charge? It will definitely serve me right if I have. LOL
   
  Also, I'm guessing I should probably turn off USB charging mode and then back on again when the battery is low (instead of letting it constantly top up all the while I'm using it as I of course have it set to now...?)


----------



## bowei006

@Terja
I do not have the combo. I am not a FiiO fanboy. They will receive any criticism they get to make a better product in the future.

@Daveis the music
Yes that was theoretically "bad" for the battery. How bad?... Very small and uncomparable. Dont worry about it.
Yes for best "technical" life you should charge it with usb charge on or whatever. After its full, if its plugged in to charge. Turn Usb charge off an let it use up.


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





terja said:


> Anyone else having this problem when docking the E17 to the E9? I'm trying to see if this is something peculiar to my E17 unit, my E9 unit, or the combination as a whole. Obviously if everyone using the combination has the same issue it's probably a firmware issue that Fiio will have to address.
> 
> Recap: I reset it and noticed it's not the E17 itself. I should have mentioned this before, but I have the E17 docked to the E9 and I checked - the reset to 6dB only happens when the unit is docked with the E9. So somehow the combination creates this default 6dB gain.


 
  did you try putting vol memory on? i will give it a try on my e9 give me 15 min or so


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





terja said:


> Pretty please ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 mine resets too 6 whenever I turn it off and on again docked on a e9 with the lo bypass on


----------



## Terja

Hey Sonic Boom thanks for checking. I have volume memory set to on. I also tried toggling the lineout bypass to no avail. Unfortunately the E9 doesn't have a reset pin otherwise I would have tried it. This sounds like something that could easily be fixed with a firmware update unless if it is hardwired. Now there is even more reason for an E9 update ... another long lineup, finger-chewing and wondering when the package will show up, aaiiee ...
  
  Quote: 





sonic boom said:


> mine resets too 6 whenever I turn it off and on again docked on a e9 with the lo bypass on


----------



## daveisthemusic

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes that was theoretically "bad" for the battery. How bad?... Very small and uncomparable. Dont worry about it.
> Yes for best "technical" life you should charge it with usb charge on or whatever. After its full, if its plugged in to charge. Turn Usb charge off an let it use up.


 


  Thanks dude, guess I got away with it.
   
  Just noticed my headphones give the TINIEST bit more presence (I'm talking ~0.5%) with USB charging=on. I'd be surprised if most could notice it though. Kind of makes sense with the E17 feeding power from the laptop around its electronics.
   
  My god I've been listening to this thing wayyy too much, almost non-stop since it arrived


----------



## wilky61

If you dock an E17 on top of an E9, does the E17 draw power and charge its battery constantly? (i.e., would leaving an E17 perma-docked on an E9 affect the life of the E17's battery?)


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> *One odd thing........ * ....was hearing sputtering or white noise sound when I paused the music from my android phone and TF10....mind you this isn't a wolfsorator a good dac at all on my huawei mercury.......and the headphone jack has lots of noise but I took care of it with the sound attenuator on TF10......... So why is there a pretty loud sputtering/white noise sound when pausing music? Is it because the 12db gain is amplifying the noise so much that even the sound attenuator can't filter it out? Haven't tried the phone + dt880 though. No issues with iPod at all


 

  I get some noise I can hear in my IEM's if the wifi is turned on on my iPod Touch 2G.  I turn on Airplane mode or move the E17 off of it and it goes away.  Might be your issue as well.


----------



## JetJock

Quote: 





daveisthemusic said:


> Oh, really? When I first received mine, I ripped open the box and turned it on, looked through the menus, turned it off, charged it for about an hour at which point I couldn't wait any more, turned it on and started listening with my laptop while continuing to charge. By doing this will I have decreased the battery's lifespan / life per charge? It will definitely serve me right if I have. LOL
> 
> Also, I'm guessing I should probably turn off USB charging mode and then back on again when the battery is low (instead of letting it constantly top up all the while I'm using it as I of course have it set to now...?)


 
   
   
  No, not a problem at all for lithium ion batteries.  In fact, they will last longer if you keep it charged between 1/4 to 3/4 full.  I have a Chevy Volt car with lithium ion batteries and they designed the car to do just that and new laptops have that option (batter life extension mode).  The old days of fully discharging and fully charging were for old nicad and nickel metal hydride batteries.


----------



## JetJock

Hey everyone.  I will say that I have found my music nirvana with the HE400 and the new Fiio E17.  I have the E6 and E7 but the E17 really brings the best out of the HE400.  I did try some HD650's and thought they were good but I always felt that with the right amp the HE400's would be better and boy, was I right!  Now I have been plugging every kind of headphone in to the E17 just to compare and discovered that dynamic drivers are not as amp sensitive as orthos (I noticed an improvement with the E17 and the HD650 but not NEARLY as big a change as with the HE400).  Don't give the HE400's a bad rap if you don't have the right amp.
   
  Plugging in the E17 into my laptop gives me fantastic results too.
   
  Bottom line.....without question the best bang for your buck is the HE400 and E17 combo.  I doubt anyone will have any major complaints.


----------



## Terja

Depends on whether you have 'USB CHG" set to ON or OFF in the E17 menu. If it's on the E17 will be charging and working at the same time unless if it is fully charged (light switch is solid blue). I think it's OK to leave it set to on, but also a good idea to let it run using the internal battery (Usb chg off) once in a while, at least once a week or so. See also JetJock's battery comment above.
  
  Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> If you dock an E17 on top of an E9, does the E17 draw power and charge its battery constantly? (i.e., would leaving an E17 perma-docked on an E9 affect the life of the E17's battery?)


----------



## Jahlil021987

Hi everyone after carefully comparing the E7 and E17 side by side with the same source material on the same headphones I can honestly say the E17 has the chops. It gives you that kick drum kick in my dt770 almost as authoritative as the E9 and that is saying something from a portable. Not yet used the opt input yet will try on my PS3 or my old reference DVD Player


----------



## TheChosen0ne

is the e17 powerful enough for the hd600?


----------



## JetJock

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> is the e17 powerful enough for the hd600?


 


  Absolutely!  It is driving my orthos way better than anything I have tried before.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> is the e17 powerful enough for the hd600?


 


  any more opinions?


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> any more opinions?


 


  To drive them, yes.
   
  To wake them up from the old days when they were the Kings of all Headphones, no.
   
   
  You need to hear compare the amps yourself to see the difference, and justify whether it is small enough. I might go with the E17 first, attend meets/trial higher end amps. Then when you find something you believe to be worth the money, sell the E17 for a little cost.


----------



## ALKAID

I use samsung galaxy s2 with se215, is it good if I use it with fiio e17
Or should I buy a new player like hm 601 slim
Because I feel that samsung really lack of power and soundstage
Btw I'm not basshead, and ussually I listen to pop, jazz and rock
Music format is Flac and wav

Thx before for answering this really newbie question


----------



## beaver316

Im planning on getting the E17 this week. I'll be ordering tomorrow but i still have some concerns hopefully someone here could help me with. Im pretty new to audiophile music quality, but using my Sennheiser IE80 on my laptop with integrated sound card (realtek) sounds pretty amazing. Very detailed and clear. But like i mentioned, im new to this level of quality, so im not sure if this is the max potential for these IEMs or if they can do better. Does anyone think the E17 could provide better sound compared with my laptop? 
   
  Looking forward to some thoughts, i havent come across many on this site with both the E17 and IE80..


----------



## visanj

@ ALKAID, I tried comparing my Galaxy S2 and Clip+ with Brainwavz M2 and Galaxy S2 is not even eligible for comparison. Clip+ is miles ahead. Galaxy S2's main problem is with its Yamaha DAC and the signal path. Its worst. If you are going to use E17 with Galaxy S2 using headphone out then i don't think there will be any major difference
   
  I'm waiting for USB Audio out feature in Galaxy S2. Once thats out then I can connect S2 with E17 via USB thereby using Galaxy S2's nice UI and FIIO's DAC/Amp (best of both worlds)


----------



## ALKAID

visanj said:


> @ ALKAID, I tried comparing my Galaxy S2 and Clip+ with Brainwavz M2 and Galaxy S2 is not even eligible for comparison. Clip+ is miles ahead. Galaxy S2's main problem is with its Yamaha DAC and the signal path. Its worst. If you are going to use E17 with Galaxy S2 using headphone out then i don't think there will be any major difference
> 
> I'm waiting for USB Audio out feature in Galaxy S2. Once thats out then I can connect S2 with E17 via USB thereby using Galaxy S2's nice UI and FIIO's DAC/Amp (best of both worlds)





@ visanj : yeah I have compare my sgs2 with sansaa clip and sansa sound better than my sgs2,
So the problem is the dac then, btw what if you use fio e17 with ipod 4g ( this question coming from my friend )


----------



## visanj

@ALKAID, I don't have any ipods unfortunately but I think E17's DAC will always be better than ipod/iphone DAC. Could anyone please correct me if I'm wrong?


----------



## visanj

Day by day E17's expectation is growing high in my mind. I hope I won't get disappointed. I'm still wondering how long it will take to ship to India


----------



## musicinmymind

Your expectations must be in-lines with current source, if you already have good source (Dell XPS with creative sound card for example) then E17 may not be huge gain.

I order on Jan 12 and received on Aug 2, followed this thread all along and my expectations peaked more than ALPEN itself. when I go it, I was disappointed upfront and with few more days was able notice the difference and appreciate E17 better. E17 is much more clean and clear than my Dell XPS.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





visanj said:


> @ALKAID, I don't have any ipods unfortunately but I think E17's DAC will always be better than ipod/iphone DAC. Could anyone please correct me if I'm wrong?


 


  Depend on the DAC chip, yes, because WM8740 is expensive, need more power, and big size than other DAC, not to talk it only includes DAC functions without any AD and other features, of course, a better DAC chip not equal better sound quality in sometimes.


----------



## shigzeo

That chipset is a favourite of mine, though I'm not really partial to DAC chips. You are right, there are cheaper DACs that sometimes sound/perform better than more expensive ones. This new amp looks incredible.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Your expectations must be in-lines with current source, if you already have good source (Dell XPS with creative sound card for example) then E17 may not be huge gain.
> I order on Jan 12 and received on Aug 2, followed this thread all along and my expectations peaked more than ALPEN itself. when I go it, I was disappointed upfront and with few more days was able notice the difference and appreciate E17 better. E17 is much more clean and clear than my Dell XPS.


 


  Total agree, sometimes we feel disappoint just because we expect too much for something, there are not magic. but we believe E17 have better Sound quality than other portable dac/amp in the same price range.


----------



## visanj

Can anyone please tell me how is E17 when compared to Clip+,HiFiMan HM-602, 801, Cowon etc? 
   
  Any idea?


----------



## hyogen

Used the E17 this morning in my car--aux in/FM transmitter ($2 on ebay) + e17 + ipod 5.5g.    I had to change the gain to 6db, but very good still  
   
  My expectations exceeded by quite a bit   Very satisfied with the E17
   
  Mutually agreed to cancel the transaction with the seller for the Little Dot MK3 for now....there was a shipping snafu and seller was busy.  Getting my money back--dont' think I'll be looking for anything else for quite a long long time.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





visanj said:


> Can anyone please tell me how is E17 when compared to Clip+,HiFiMan HM-602, 801, Cowon etc?
> 
> Any idea?


 


  I haven't tried Cowon, but it should be at least as clean as that--maybe better since Cowon has BBE which *can* make the sound unnatural sounding...  Cowons have Wolfson DACs in them too--  In the future I'll probably be looking at getting a Cowon as my source
   
  Clip+ isn't supposed to have stellar stellar SQ.  It is supposedly very good for its price.  It has an integrated DAC
   
  Not sure about Hifiman, but those are both really expensive...and the 801 has dual dacs?  you can just use that as a USB DAC, so you might as well get the E11, which is just as good if not better than the E17 as an amp. 
   
   
  Here is something I just posted in a Galaxy S (wolfson) thread:
   
   
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I have the iPod 5.5gen now that has a better Wolfson DAC than the Nexus S (galaxy s1) + Voodoo.  In fact, as much as I'm SUPER impressed with the Fiio E17 amp/dac, I could ALMOST do without it (especially if i didn't care about the USB dac) and the iPod.     The Nexus S (with voodoo) was JUST THAT good to my ears.  I miss the awesome touch interface, Poweramp player with all its amazing features including crossfading, and being able to download songs right onto the phone over wifi.
> 
> The E17 does drive my headphones better though, and is cleaaan even with the 12db gain and I'm sure that also has to do with the iPod as well.  I never tried the Nexus S + E17.  5db gain on the nexus S was amazing though.....again VOODOO is responsible for that <3
> 
> ...


----------



## Terja

Feiao - thanks to Fiio for a great product, lots of bells and whistles for something with a very small form factor - not to mention it sounds great. I am having a slight problem with my E17 when paired with the E9. Whenever I switch it off it resets the gain to 6dB. Since I prefer using 0dB I have to change it each time I want to use it again. Is there anything I can do to fix this (press some magic buttons or combination of magic buttons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... )? Or does the problem lie with the E9 because the E17 works fine by itself? Thanks for any suggestions.

  
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Total agree, sometimes we feel disappoint just because we expect too much for something, there are not magic. but we believe E17 have better Sound quality than other portable dac/amp in the same price range.


----------



## visanj

@hyogen, thanks for your inputs. I really wanted Nexus S but its not available here and hence I went for Galaxy S2
   
  I'm waiting with my fingers crossed....can't help myself....I have also ordered USB OTG cable for my Galaxy S2 with a small hope that Android will introduce USB Audio host mode in ICS....
   
  I'm still dreaming for this.....Galaxy S2 + PowerAmp/Winamp + FIIO E17 + Brainwavz M2


----------



## yawny

I got mine in today and am trying to get it running as an amp for my PC but can't seem to get any output. I can get the "sound check" noise to come through, but iTunes won't play through it, almost like it's only playing through the primary audio devices (my speakers) and nothing else.
   
  Also, when i plug a toslink into my card and the E17, it still displays 48/16. 
   
  I'm usually pretty good with troubleshooting and such, but i'm stumped and i haven't been on the thread enough lately to know where to dig back to.


----------



## yawny

Okay, got it to output through my card's optical out, but it still won't give me anything higher than 48/16 through the optical out on my Striker 7.1.
   
  I know the card can output 192/32 and i'm not sure what to do. I even allowed it in the playback device settings.
   
  The Xear 3D interface that seems to run the card only shows 44.1 and 48k as options, but i'm not sure if that means anything.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





visanj said:


> @hyogen, thanks for your inputs. I really wanted Nexus S but its not available here and hence I went for Galaxy S2
> 
> I'm waiting with my fingers crossed....can't help myself....I have also ordered USB OTG cable for my Galaxy S2 with a small hope that Android will introduce USB Audio host mode in ICS....
> 
> I'm still dreaming for this.....Galaxy S2 + PowerAmp/Winamp + FIIO E17 + Brainwavz M2


 


 so i'm sure you know the Galaxy S2 doesn't have the Wolfson chip in it.  My wife has the Galaxy S2 (sold the Razr already for those who know the story..haha).  It's pretty good--definitely not as bad as my current Huawei phone...
   
  I'm not sure if you can do the Cyanogen Mod.... either CM7 maybe CM9?  With those you can do USB audio   You probably already knew this also  
   
  I'm quite confident you'll like PowerAmp FAR more than any other media player on android


----------



## hyogen

Can anyone comment on how adding bass boost on the E17 changes the EQ?   So far I feel like it's really tight and really doesn't "encroach" on the mids at all....even at max bass...  is this because the E17 is so good and I have really neutral cans?


----------



## yawny

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Can anyone comment on how adding bass boost on the E17 changes the EQ?   So far I feel like it's really tight and really doesn't "encroach" on the mids at all....even at max bass...  is this because the E17 is so good and I have really neutral cans?


 


  Though my HD650, which aren't a bass-heavy 'phone at all, it gives a nice pure bass boost, but to my ears adds a little to the mids. Makes it a lot warmer-sounding, but doesn't muddy it by blasting the mids along with the bass.


----------



## panzerfan

I need to sadly report that T989 Galaxy S2 using Cyanogenmod7 didn't do it. Using the 3.5mm out is rather... 'unsatisfactory' btw, since the Yamaha DAC will snap crackle and pop... I am fairly certain that if you're not bothered by that, you may actually live with straight out of Yamaha DAC just fine... 
   
  as for everyone else, we need a USB Audio out, end of story.
   
  I really, really love this little guy though, using Westone 4R with this. +2 on bass was just right for my taste.


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Can anyone comment on how adding bass boost on the E17 changes the EQ?   So far I feel like it's really tight and really doesn't "encroach" on the mids at all....even at max bass...  is this because the E17 is so good and I have really neutral cans?


 

 Man, I can concur with you on this. The bass boost is really a nice feature that does a good job of isolating and enhancing the bass without encroaching on the mids too much. Maybe, like Yawny reported, the bass boost warms up the sound a tad, but to my V-MODA M-80s, I really can hear only good things happening. Someone here described the sound as "liquid," and that is absolutely my experience. The E17 only makes the music sound better. Definitely a big win for Fiio  I was listening to an old reggae album that I've heard a hundred times before, and suddenly heard a bongo I didn't even know existed in the mix. My first reaction was annoyance that my neighbor was on his drums, but then I realized it was coming from my cans! Talk about gorgeous soundstaging!


----------



## Muleskinner

Well I got mine today. So far I'm pretty impressed. I have to admit I built myself up too high in anticipation, but the device is very very good. I'm enjoying it so far, although I'm still waiting for my LOD to come in, for some reason it was shipped seperately from my e17.


----------



## Muleskinner

Although I have to say as well, I don't think my HD555's really benefit that much from amplification. I sort of expected such, but its still a nice improvement until I decide what headphones I'd like to go with next.


----------



## yawny

Also, to comment on the Gain, the noise floor is VERY low on the E17
   
  I've got it driven from my Striker through the optical out, and i was needing to put it to 60 (max) at 6dB gain to get a good "loud volume" listening volume. I figured, what the hey might as well try 12dB gain. On my good recordings, there's no noticeable increase in noise which is awesome for me somewhat-hard-to-drive HD650.


----------



## M-13

Just placed my order with Micca. Chose the faster shipping for $6.95... I have no patience for audio gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Edit: Already shipped, got my tracking. Sweet...


----------



## Deltaechoe

Just placed my order for the alpen, I didn't choose the expedited shipping because i still need to figure out how to get usb audio out on my android device.  I'll share the modded kernel with you guys if I can ever get it working and no, it doesn't seem to be as simple as adding the driver, I'll try working with the cyanogenmod team to see if we can get it working for all android phones on at least ICS.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





deltaechoe said:


> Just placed my order for the alpen, I didn't choose the expedited shipping because i still need to figure out how to get usb audio out on my android device.  I'll share the modded kernel with you guys if I can ever get it working and no, it doesn't seem to be as simple as adding the driver, I'll try working with the cyanogenmod team to see if we can get it working for all android phones on at least ICS.


 

  
  would the point of this be to have line out sound, or bypass the internal DAC and use a USB dac like the E17?    I'd imagine one would use micro to mini USB cable..
   
   
  btw, just tried out USB DAC on school's computer which had sound disabled altogether for some reason.  Worked very well and was super easy to plug and play / setup.  Sounded great!!!


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





terja said:


> Feiao - thanks to Fiio for a great product, lots of bells and whistles for something with a very small form factor - not to mention it sounds great. I am having a slight problem with my E17 when paired with the E9. Whenever I switch it off it resets the gain to 6dB. Since I prefer using 0dB I have to change it each time I want to use it again. Is there anything I can do to fix this (press some magic buttons or combination of magic buttons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, it is a bug but it can not be fixed by yourself unless you send back to us. also it is the same to adjust the volume to the level you are satisfy at 6dB so you don't need to adjust the gain 
   
   
  BTW, any new bug or quality report please post on our sub forum, http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f180/   
   
   
  you know, this thread become too long and hard to track all the feedback about bugs and quality problem.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> so i'm sure you know the Galaxy S2 doesn't have the Wolfson chip in it.  My wife has the Galaxy S2 (sold the Razr already for those who know the story..haha).  It's pretty good--definitely not as bad as my current Huawei phone...
> 
> I'm not sure if you can do the Cyanogen Mod.... either CM7 maybe CM9?  With those you can do USB audio   You probably already knew this also
> 
> I'm quite confident you'll like PowerAmp FAR more than any other media player on android


 

  
  Some people are reporting 'Negative' with CM9 for USB audio out and I don't want to try as of now as my Galaxy S2 got bricked once when trying to upgrade to CM9 and after a long struggle got a replacement phone just this month (its a big story)...so I don't want to take risk again
   
  Actually I'm currently using 'Rockbox' for android and its much better than PowerAmp as far as I can feel....


----------



## Eschaton

Quote: 





muleskinner said:


> Although I have to say as well, I don't think my HD555's really benefit that much from amplification. I sort of expected such, but its still a nice improvement until I decide what headphones I'd like to go with next.


 


  Could just be my awful laptop internal audio, but for sure the HD555's benefit from a dac, and the extra power made the bass punchier without any adjustment at all.  Having a lot of fun with the "EQ", it controls the bass in much more crisp fashion than the e7.  Giving it +2 or +4 can make an absolute world of kicking difference.  No need to give 'em more treble.
   
  To be sure, they're only 50 ohm 'phones (unless your's are from an older batch) so they're not a terror to drive.  They won't benefit from an amp like a set of 250 ohm headphones, which will sound like rubbish without an amp.  Moving up from my somewhat-broken e7 and faulty e10, gotta say I am very pleased.  The e10, if it was ever functioning correctly, took all the warmth out of my 555's.  These keep it (I know that's a bit odd, same DAC right?), and with tighter bass control and the ability to back off the treble (or stack it on), not a single complaint yet from me.  It doesn't work miracles, but it's the best I've yet heard my 555's.
   
   
   


visanj said:


> Some people are reporting 'Negative' with CM9 for USB audio out and I don't want to try as of now as my Galaxy S2 got bricked once when trying to upgrade to CM9 and after a long struggle got a replacement phone just this month (its a big story)...so I don't want to take risk again
> 
> Actually I'm currently using 'Rockbox' for android and its much better than PowerAmp as far as I can feel....


 
   
  WAIT A MINUTE, someone smack me around and call me Murphy!!  CM9 supports USB audio out???!  Ohhhh yeeeeeeeesssssssss.  I am going to look like such a geek and not even care.  Just waiting on it to be finalized for my phone.  I already have the wiring layout extending from my holstered phone and around my cargo pants planned out!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT AGAIN
   
  Looks like my aspirations once again got ahead of my brain, or at least my reading comprehension.  Looks like some people are reporting a decided "no" in regards to usb audio.  Shame.  We'll see, I guess...
   
  EDIT...
   
  Actually looks like a decided "no"...  I'll wait.  Hope is the last thing to die.


----------



## Dixter

If we could get some input from the Fiio guys here...   for a wish list of things that might improve an all ready good product may I throw out a wish...
   
  To me the E17 is all about control...  how you can control the different headphones that we have...   what would be really nice is if we could have an option
  for saving presets...   and be able to name the presets...  for example..  a preset for HD800..  a preset for M50...  a preset for IEM...   and others...  it would
  be nice to be able to plug in a set of phones, go to the preset that we setup to make the phones sound great with the E17 and just select the preset for the
  choice of phones...    all that has to be in the preset is  Gain, Treble and Base adjustments...   that way when I grab a set of phones I don't have to remember
  how I set them up the last time I used them... I just select the preset...
   
  thanks for a great product BTW...


----------



## icefalkon

Just got mine in today and I've been charging it for a few hours now...
   
  It still won't turn on...I have the red circle in front though...This thing has been charging since 7pm Eastern time...any suggestions...or should I just wait it out?
   
  Steve from NYC


----------



## Dixter

I would think it should at least turn on after a couple of hours of charge time...   it could be your USB port on the computer not putting out enough power...  if you have a wall charger
  like an iphone charger you could plug it into that and see if it charges faster...   some of my computers USB ports are low in power and I have a dual USB plug where I have to use
  two USB ports on some of my equipment or they wont turn on at all...


----------



## Eschaton

Quote: 





icefalkon said:


> Just got mine in today and I've been charging it for a few hours now...
> 
> It still won't turn on...I have the red circle in front though...This thing has been charging since 7pm Eastern time...any suggestions...or should I just wait it out?
> 
> Steve from NYC


 


  Mine came with the "HOLD" engaged, so that pressing power did nothing.  Flip your hold switch and press power, see if it comes on.  You're definitely charged up far enough at this point.
   
  EDIT
   
  By the way, FiiO, the hold switch is a nice feature.  Prevents buttons getting pressed if it's in your pocket, or if you're done tweaking it and just want the screen off to listen to music in the dark, it shuts that off too!  Really psyched about this product.  Got mine in today so the "new toy" effect hasn't worn off yet.


----------



## fs454

This may sound dumb but try holding the power button for longer...it surprised me the first time that it takes a little bit longer of a push than I expected.


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





icefalkon said:


> Just got mine in today and I've been charging it for a few hours now...
> 
> It still won't turn on...I have the red circle in front though...This thing has been charging since 7pm Eastern time...any suggestions...or should I just wait it out?
> 
> Steve from NYC


 


  I had the same problem and realised I had the hold switch was on :/


----------



## hyogen

visanj said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmmm I didn't know they had rockbox for android.... I can't find it in the market. I'm curious how it is better.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Hmmm I didn't know they had rockbox for android.... I can't find it in the market. I'm curious how it is better.


 


  You don't find rockbox in market as its still in 'beta' stage. You can download it from the below link
   
  http://rasher.dk/rockbox/android/
   
  Rockbox in my galaxy s2 sounds a bit more cleaner than any other player. You will feel it but definitely not when compared to Clip+
   
  And another thing I noticed, with my Sennheiser HD202 I could not find much difference between Rockbox-Galaxy S2 and Clip+ but I could see clear difference when I use Brainwavz M2. I guess impedance is the main reason
   
  Could anyone please let me know your thoughts on this?


----------



## icefalkon

LOL That was it! The HOLD button was engaged...OK...I'm not the only one it happened to! Thanks guys!
   
  This little unit is hands down amazing! First through my Senn HD 25's, and then through my UE TF10's...holy crap! They totally opened up the soundstage...it's made amazing earpieces sound even better!
   
  Way to go Fiio!
   
  Steve from NYC


----------



## Eschaton

Quote: 





visanj said:


> You don't find rockbox in market as its still in 'beta' stage. You can download it from the below link
> 
> http://rasher.dk/rockbox/android/
> 
> ...


 

 Shockingly, the impedance on Brainwavz is just 20 ohms compared to the 32 ohms of the HD202's.  The sensitivity is rated the same, 115db/1mW.  So yes, it is indeed the impedance.  Interference will be more obvious on the Brainwavz, they will be very unforgiving of the source.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

So what you guys think is better?  HD600 with E9 alone on a computer with bad dac or HD600 with E17 alone on a ipod touch?  I already got the E9 and I've already ordered E17 through miccastore so I'm gonna have and use both but just curious which one is better.


----------



## georgio

Just received my E17 today and wanted to say how happy I am with the Micca store delivery and customer service.  Just getting into the E17, but I can tell already that this is  a great buy....  And yes, it's true, the delivery tracking mechanism leaves a little to be desired, but this was one prompt shipment and fast delivery.


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> So what you guys think is better?  HD600 with E9 alone on a computer with bad dac or HD600 with E17 alone on a ipod touch?  I already got the E9 and I've already ordered E17 through miccastore so I'm gonna have and use both but just curious which one is better.


 


  well you can connect the e17 too the computer via usb, and too the ipod with a 3.5 to 3.5 cable via the aux port on the e17, then put the low bypass switch on and have a 3.5 to 3.5 cable go too the e9. I have herd its not that great docked on the e9 but you can still doc it on the e9 like the e7 could.


----------



## kalbee

I tried docking it with a E9 for a short period of time...
  I wouldn't call it 'not that great docked', but the sound is definitely different.
   
  I found it to have more bass punch/impact... warmer, with more body.
  Could just be me and the specific setup I used (paired with Q701), and frankly for that headphone I prefer the docked combo.
   
  Once again, I only tried this for like 20 minutes total (comparing direct out of laptop vs. only E17 vs. E17 docked to E9), but those were my short impressions.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





eschaton said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 hmm...well, it'd be surprising to me if it could sound more clear than wolfson + voodoo and another player.  What I love so much about poweramp is all the really useable features such as adjustable crossfading, locker player controls, music pauses when you pull headphones and resumes when you plug back in, super easy to organize music with just folders, and all the other features any mp3 player should have. 
   
  As for soundstage and TF10.....It could be just me, but as good as they sound with the E17, I feel like they had quite a bit better soundstage with galaxy s (nexus s...wolfson + voodoo).  I think the voodoo not only optimizes the wolfson, but has maybe a cleaning up effect that might be similar to what BBE does.  Anyway, enough harping on about wolfson + voodoo  
   
  Really loving the E17 --not sure how I would improve upon it. There's really nothing left to be desired for me...  The interface is just a TINY bit awkward to use, but you get used to it quick.  I heard the E7 has a really bad interface--E17 is not bad at all--just not intuitive to someone who just picks it up for the first time..


----------



## SniperCzar

Those of you trying USB audio on your phones, are you doubly sure you're using the right OTG cable and powered USB hub?

 I thought of a hack the other day that I may try out when I get around to installing CM. I'm wondering if you cut the power lines on a USB cable and left the signal lines alone if it would get rid of the need for a powered hub for devices such as the E17 with an internal battery.

 You might find this thread useful: http://www.head-fi.org/t/579365/usb-headphone-amp-with-android-phones-possible/


----------



## panzerfan

Well, the OTG lines that we typically cannot really supply power.  I found that I couldn't use a mouse that draw power, while a wireless mouse's transmitter works happily with the USB host. 
   
  When I was testing the E17, I disabled USB charging. I guess it does confirm that not all Cyanogenmod 7 kernel would work... even if host mode is available across the board.


----------



## beaver316

Im happy to say i've placed an order with Hifiheadphones  They have stock and price was only 108 British pounds, including VAT and shipping. This time next week i'll probably have them in mu hands, if im lucky this Friday. Exciting!


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> hmm...well, it'd be surprising to me if it could sound more clear than wolfson + voodoo and another player.  What I love so much about poweramp is all the really useable features such as adjustable crossfading, locker player controls, music pauses when you pull headphones and resumes when you plug back in, super easy to organize music with just folders, and all the other features any mp3 player should have.
> 
> As for soundstage and TF10.....It could be just me, but as good as they sound with the E17, I feel like they had quite a bit better soundstage with galaxy s (nexus s...wolfson + voodoo).  I think the voodoo not only optimizes the wolfson, but has maybe a cleaning up effect that might be similar to what BBE does.  Anyway, enough harping on about wolfson + voodoo
> 
> Really loving the E17 --not sure how I would improve upon it. There's really nothing left to be desired for me...  The interface is just a TINY bit awkward to use, but you get used to it quick.  I heard the E7 has a really bad interface--E17 is not bad at all--just not intuitive to someone who just picks it up for the first time..


 

  
  Wolfson + Voodoo will definitely sound better (miles ahead) than Galaxy S2 + Rockbox. I'm just comparing Galaxy S2+ Rockbox and Galaxy S2+Poweramp
   
  Also can you tell me which is better between Wolfson + Voodoo and E17 with any audio source via USB?


----------



## PsiCore

What bass frequencies does the Alpen boost? The same subbass regions as E11?
   
  I like what the E11 does to the nice subbass rumble, but sometimes the bass get's a bit muddy. Is this also the case with E17?


----------



## ClieOS

psicore said:


> What bass frequencies does the Alpen boost? The same subbass regions as E11?
> 
> I like what the E11 does to the nice subbass rumble, but sometimes the bass get's a bit muddy. Is this also the case with E17?




Read the first page?


----------



## Necrontyr

Mine just arrived in work, have to say i'm very happy with it  
   
  +1 to fiio for making such an amazing product


----------



## deandake

Thank you for that definition for "tube rolling". I had often wondered the same thing but never thought to ask.


----------



## Erikesp

Got my Alpen yesterday and have played with it a little bit.  I like it so far.  The one thing I have noticed that using it in with my ipod classic as a portable rig is that there is only one place that you can strap it together.  It interferes with the ipod controls and that is a little pain in the butt.  Minor detail but it is the one thing that stood out to me from beginning.


----------



## deandake

Finally got mine yesterday. Let it charge at home and it is now accompanying me here at work docked to the E9 connected to my computer via usb. Once I figured out that I needed to switch it to lo bypass I noticed an immediate improvement in the SQ.
   
  Currently listening to Peter Gabriel's "New Blood" disc one. I am hearing details I had never heard before.  It definitely increased range. Highs are brighter and more detailed. Had to flattened out the EQ on my Foobar so the highs didn't make my ears bleed.  Everything sounds crisper and punchier. Soooooo clear. 
   
  The only 24/96 I have on my computer at work is NIN's "Ghosts". Gave that a brief listen and the E17 recognized the 24/96 no problem. Sounds UHmazing! I cannot get over the detail. 
   
  Hello, my name is Dean. I am powerless over my addiction to sound quality.


----------



## Stonez

Hurrah!  I got an email this morning from MP4 Nation plus tracking number to let me know they'd been shipped.  Does anyone have a realistic time of when I can expect them in Atlanta, Ga.?  I'm waiting with bated breath.....


----------



## bluzeboy

i just got my E17 from mp4nation i'm using a ipod classic with plugging in to AUX  plug is thier a big differance in  which port one plugs into.USB,OPT or SPDIF.
  thanks


----------



## Mutombo

I've been holding off on buying this but think I'm going to finally bite the bullet and do it.


----------



## beaver316

Just got an email of it's dispatch. The excitement is killing me 
   
  One thing though, all my flac files are at 44 Khz 16 bits. I know this player is capable of up to 96/24, is the difference really that noticeable?


----------



## panzerfan

Well, Although it is a bit disappointing that I've no luck in making the T989 v. of GSII workable with E17, I've had the E17 plugged into my PC and o boy...
   
  With Westone 4R, setting at 0 gain, +2 bass, I felt nowhere as fatigued listening to music as I was before (using x-fi xtreme music -> Gigaworks S750 7.1 ->Westone 4R before). 
  Noted unveiling for the mids is something that I really don't expect for this little black box. What wizardry is this... 
   
  Realistically speaking, we are not likely to tap even the 96k/24bit potential of the unit that often, nevermind the [size=small]192K/24bit. If this unit can interoperate with any Android mobile device (it already does with Apple devices and laptops), we can turn any mobile device into instant listening rig. [/size]
   
  [size=small]I think it may not be an understatement to say that the Fiio E17 may come to 80% mark of what dedicated DAC with dedicated Amp can achieve. It would be ridiculous to drive LCD-3 with this alone, but if someone is desperate to hear something on a laptop and has, for some odd reason, a D2000, get E17 in ASAP.  [/size]
 ​ [size=small]Another way of using the E17 is to use it as a testing equipment to check connections. As you can run optical into this thing, one can walk about an AV rack and check signals using a headphone and this little wonder.  (Add HDMI into the next one Fiio!)[/size]​   
  I think this is what it's meant for a portable casual listening setup. With a laptop, you can field deploy with even DT880 250 ohm, set to +6 (as the hiss is very, very low) and off you go in some airport lounge... USB and optical out I think eliminate the need for high-dollar silver/copper wires (especially for its price range), making it very appealing for the 100% solid state crowd (which I am a part of).
   
  Well done Fiio!


----------



## TigreNegrito

Okay, so I'm kinda confused on the set-up here.  E17 docked to E9 is supposed to use the DAC from the E17 and amplify the output via E9.  Does that work only when using the SPDIF/Coax inputs on top of the E17, only when using the USB in back of the E9 or what?
   
  In order to get a signal from iPhone to E17, I can't also have it docked, I've found, and if I use line input on back of E9 from iPhone, the signal doesn't pass thru the docked E17 at all (I assume) because there is no change in SQ if I pull the E17 out of the dock when a song is playing.  Yes, I've turned on/off the Line Out Bypass toggle on the side to no effect.
   
  I have L7, L8, L9 and L10 interconnects plus the optical wires Micca store included and I can't figure a way to use iPhone as source and still run the signal through both products, docked or otherwise, with the cables I have now.  Anyone have a similar issue/solution?


----------



## panzerfan

At this moment, I think it may be better to setup pregain over the source laptop and then fed it over to E17, then straight to out... for the time being, unless if your headphones must use the E9. 
   
  From the way how I'm reading it, you will get 96k/24bit by USB laptop->E9->E17->E9->headphones. I think you may need to run optical->E17->E9->Headphones to take advantage of the 192k/24bits, although I am not sure if that's worthwhile route...


----------



## UnityIsPower

Don't have my xbox with me at the moment but was wondering if I could use my E17 with my xbox 360? Plug an optical cable from xbox to Fiio...


----------



## panzerfan

Yes, you should, but 360 really won't come close to tapping the potentials of the E17 in gaming audio. I tested the optical out from HDTV->E17, with very positive results.
   
  EDIT: Do pay attention to setup box settings though. You need to feed stereo signals to E17. Surround won't work with E17.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> Well, Although it is a bit disappointing that I've no luck in making the T989 v. of GSII workable with E17, I've had the E17 plugged into my PC and o boy...
> 
> With Westone 4R, setting at 0 gain, +2 bass, I felt nowhere as fatigued listening to music as I was before (using x-fi xtreme music -> Gigaworks S750 7.1 ->Westone 4R before).
> Noted unveiling for the mids is something that I really don't expect for this little black box. What wizardry is this...
> ...


 

 Hmm..I'm not hearing ANY hiss at all with my DT880 250ohm...  even set to +12 gain.  What am I missing out on?


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





erikesp said:


> Got my Alpen yesterday and have played with it a little bit.  I like it so far.  The one thing I have noticed that using it in with my ipod classic as a portable rig is that there is only one place that you can strap it together.  It interferes with the ipod controls and that is a little pain in the butt.  Minor detail but it is the one thing that stood out to me from beginning.


 

 a few pages back there are pics of my ipod video and E17.  I don't find that it interferes with anything....well one rubber band hides the source button on the E17 (but I just press the rubber band) because that's the only button that's hidden.  The other rubber band is lower on both units and only covers a part of the play button on the iPod, but I can easily press it and also still scroll circularly without the lower rubber band interfering.


----------



## djsquared

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> a few pages back there are pics of my ipod video and E17.  I don't find that it interferes with anything....well one rubber band hides the source button on the E17 (but I just press the rubber band) because that's the only button that's hidden.  The other rubber band is lower on both units and only covers a part of the play button on the iPod, but I can easily press it and also still scroll circularly without the lower rubber band interfering.


 


  Yeah, check my avatar, I strapped it to my iphone with no interference (w/ the E17's controls--obviously the iphones screen is somewhat covered, but not in a way that interfere's with control


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> Okay, so I'm kinda confused on the set-up here.  E17 docked to E9 is supposed to use the DAC from the E17 and amplify the output via E9.  Does that work only when using the SPDIF/Coax inputs on top of the E17, only when using the USB in back of the E9 or what?  In order to get a signal from iphone to E17, I can't also have it docked, I've found, and if I use line input on back of E9 from iphone, the signal doesn't pass thru the E17 at all (I assume) because there is no change in SQ if I pull the E17 out of the dock when a song is playing.  I have L3, L7, L9 and L10 interconnects plus the optical wires Micca store included and I can't figure a way to use iphone as source and still run the signal through both products, docked or otherwise, with the cables I have now.  Anyone have a similar issue/solution?


 


 The DAC in the E17 is used on the E17/E9 combo if you connect your source via USB into the back of the E9 or Optical/Coax on top of the E17.  This can't be done with an iPod or iPhone, unfortunately.  You can only bypass the internal amp and not the DAC on the iPod or iPhone, and that is done by using a LOD.  On the iPad, you can bypass the internal DAC by using a powered USB hub and a Camera Connection Kit (CCK).  However, I've been experiencing distortion (or better described as a crackling noise) when using the FLAC Player app on my hi-res FLAC files.  I'm working with Dan Leehr on hopefully correcting this.  The normal  "iPod" interface on the iPad works fine however, and makes my ALAC files sound wonderful!!  When using a USB or SPDIF connection, the combo uses the E17 for the DAC and E9 for amp - or if you switch the bypass switch on the side of the E17 you can dual amp the signal using both the E9 and E17, which also allows you to use the EQ functions on the E17.
   
  For your iPhone, your best set up is probably using the L3 (which I believe is the higher quality LOD of the ones you have) and plugging it into the back of the E9.  I believe you can then move the switch on the E17 so you're using the amp in it as well.  I can't remember which way you have to have it switched to get it to use the amp on the E17.  If you hear a difference from changing any of the EQ settings, you know you've got it set correctly.
   
  I'm going to make an assumption here.  Since you have an iPhone, you probably have a computer with iTunes.  If so, this is where you can make your E17/E9 combo shine.  Maybe not so much with iTunes, but with your computer.  To do so, I suggest downloading Foobar and some hi-res tracks from a reputable source such as HDTracks.  Connect your computer to the E17/E9 combo via USB or better yet SPDIF if you have it, and enjoy your music like never before!  You can also enjoy your (hopefully) ALAC files in iTunes this way.  This would probably be the equivalent of playing the music on your iPhone if you could indeed bypass its internal DAC.  Unfortunately, this isn't very portable, but neither is the E17/E9 combo...
   
  I hope this helps and answers your questions.


----------



## TigreNegrito

"For your iPhone, your best set up is probably using the L3 (which I believe is the higher quality LOD of the ones you have) and plugging it into the back of the E9.  I believe you can then move the switch on the E17 so you're using the amp in it as well.  I can't remember which way you have to have it switched to get it to use the amp on the E17.  If you hear a difference from changing any of the EQ settings, you know you've got it set correctly."
   
  Yeah, I tried this setup and didn't seem to notice any SQ changes when altering bass/treble, and in fact no blips in the track when I pulled the E17 off the dock, which meant to me the signal was never passing thru it in the first place.  Cans were plugged into E9.  I think I did that with the LO Bypass switch in both positions, but will try again when I get home.  I'm probably trying to do the impossible anyway and should just run iTunes off the laptop and connect it to E9 via USB, if for no other reason to ensure that the E17/9 combo is working as advertised.
   
  Will let you know what happens later this evening and thanks for the reply.
   
  PS: I do have Foobar on my laptop, but have never really used it.  Can it import my iTunes library, or do I have to reload all the music into another directory specific to Foobar?  Also, I read somewhere that there were updates or add-ons to help sound quality when running Foobar on PC (Windows 7) but I haven't figured out how to download and install that update into Foobar. 
   
  EDIT: So yes, it works like it is supposed to when using the laptop as a source via USB into the back of E9.  The LO Bypass is toggled up and that allows you to tweak the sound via E17 menu, which is great because the E9 gives me the current to drive my Q701's and the E17 lets me bump up the bass to a level I really enjoy (6 or 8 depending on genre).
   
  AH-D1100's sound wicked (other than the creaking of the plastic hinges when I bob or turn my head) and that's with Gain 0 on both E17/9 and Bass at 0/Treble 2.
   
  Have yet to test out Val's LP's or the Fostex, but I'm certain that they will sound just as divine!  Heck, forget the sound, my bourbon even tastes better - and it's high quality stuff to begin with!  Thanks, Fiio!


----------



## ManShear

Yes Foobar automatically "imports" your iTunes library.  You just need to point to the folder.  I don't think it is really importing the tracks, I think it is just putting the directory in the Foobar Library.  I'm not sure about the Windows 7 add ons.  I've got the bare bones Foobar using Windows XP on one computer and Windows Vista on the other, and it works fine for me, but YMMV.
   
  You know, I'm not sure if what you are originally trying to do will work - use the amp section of the E17 along with the E9.  I'll try when I get home too.


----------



## hyogen

woot!  I had forgotten that both my TV and PS3 has optical out.  I still hadn't figured out how to connect my 2.1 klipsch speakers to my TV...no adapter from radio shack would work for some odd reason.  Guess I'll be making use of the optical cable Micca supplied me with


----------



## clarknova

So how is this DAC versus say an HRT Music Streamer ii ? I know it can ouput via SPDIF 196/24 but has anyone compared the two?
   
   
Conflicted.


----------



## PaperTrees

So, I got my E17 from MiccaStore over the weekend. It worked on the optical line out on my desktop for about five hours. Then the screen flashed, while hold was on, then the sound cut off. I figured that the battery must have died out, so I charged it for a few hours. The red LED dimmed, so I figured it was charged. I tried turning it on, but the E17 was unresponsive. The hold switch was up as well. The reset pin did not work either. My desktop still recognizes the device, but the E17 screen does not turn on. Any ideas?


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> Yes, you should, but 360 really won't come close to tapping the potentials of the E17 in gaming audio. I tested the optical out from HDTV->E17, with very positive results.
> 
> EDIT: Do pay attention to setup box settings though. You need to feed stereo signals to E17. Surround won't work with E17.


 

  
  Is their a setting in the xbox 360 where I can designate whether it sends 5.1 or 2.0 signals through the optical cable?
   
  Addition; Why won't the audio from the 360 be tapping the E17's potential? What makes this so? Can you elaborate.


----------



## panzerfan

Most games are highly compressed in audio format. Last I checked with say Bethesda's Fallout New Vegas, you're getting 96kbps encode.


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





panzerfan said:


> Most games are highly compressed in audio format. Last I checked with say Bethesda's Fallout New Vegas, you're getting 96kbps encode.


 


  Yea , many games use lousy horribly compressed audio sadly. Some PS3 exclusives do however use high quality audio but otherwise its slim pickins , its weird how part of gaming has actually degraded over time unlike just about everything else.
   
  Some PS3 games that support uncompressed LCPM : Uncharted, Killzone 2, Warhawk, Wipeout HD and RFOM. However I doubt that it'll send that signal through optical so its HDMI only.


----------



## yawny

I can't seem to get mine to play in anything higher than 48kHz/16bit sound, from optical or USB.
   
  I have 96 and 192 selected as options in the USB and optical playback devices respectively, but my E17 still displays 48k 16bit. I'm stumped
   
  EDIT: Got it to playback 96/24 through USB but had to set it as the default audio device to get any sound. Is this necessary in Windows 7 because it's rather annoying to have to switch it back when i change to desktop speakers.


----------



## Darkblade48

Yes, you have to set it as the default audio device.
   
  As far as I know, there is no way to have both the speakers enabled and the USB/DAC (Fiio E17) enabled (and playing music) at the same time. Obviously, one would mute the speakers when using the headphones though...
   
  If there is a way to enable both though, I'd be interested in finding out!
  
  Quote: 





yawny said:


> EDIT: Got it to playback 96/24 through USB but had to set it as the default audio device to get any sound. Is this necessary in Windows 7 because it's rather annoying to have to switch it back when i change to desktop speakers.


----------



## hyogen

what are we gonna do when our beloved little device stops holding a long enough charge?  Wonder if battery will be replaceable at all
   
  Just read an article on lithium batteries...I was surprised to find out that like someone pointed out earlier in this thread, it is not good to completely discharge your battery.... or even store at full charge.  There is no memory effect whatsoever and there is no conditioning needed at all.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> Yea , many games use lousy horribly compressed audio sadly. Some PS3 exclusives do however use high quality audio but otherwise its slim pickins , its weird how part of gaming has actually degraded over time unlike just about everything else.
> 
> Some PS3 games that support uncompressed LCPM : Uncharted, Killzone 2, Warhawk, Wipeout HD and RFOM. However I doubt that it'll send that signal through optical so its HDMI only.


 

 Thanks panz.
   
  How do you go about learning which game has good audio? I always hear people say Battlefield has really good audio, does BT3 also use low quality?


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Thanks panz.
> 
> How do you go about learning which game has good audio? I always hear people say Battlefield has really good audio, does BT3 also use low quality?


 


  Battlefield series always had good audio, way above average, but that was only up to Battlefield 2142. Battlefield Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 3 have abismal sound in comparison.


----------



## Darkblade48

I would imagine by that time, the warranty would have expired anyway, and someone could just open up their E17 (4 screws on the back) to see what kind of batteries it uses, etc.
   
  In fact, wasn't there a picture in this thread where someone showed the innards of the E17?
  
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> what are we gonna do when our beloved little device stops holding a long enough charge?  Wonder if battery will be replaceable at all
> 
> Just read an article on lithium batteries...I was surprised to find out that like someone pointed out earlier in this thread, it is not good to completely discharge your battery.... or even store at full charge.  There is no memory effect whatsoever and there is no conditioning needed at all.


----------



## yawny

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> what are we gonna do when our beloved little device stops holding a long enough charge?  Wonder if battery will be replaceable at all
> 
> Just read an article on lithium batteries...I was surprised to find out that like someone pointed out earlier in this thread, it is not good to completely discharge your battery.... or even store at full charge.  There is no memory effect whatsoever and there is no conditioning needed at all.


 


  Should be replaceable, but who really knows.
   
  The thing about modern li-ion batteries and charging systems is that they never truly fully charge. I know that iPhones are a specific example, but i believe it's true for all batteries. The battery charges up to 100%, or nearly there, then runs off to about 90% of full capacity, at which point your device displays "100% charge". Same for discharging. Most devices will shut off before the batteries are completely run out as it prolongs life.


----------



## TigreNegrito

I got the "Boost Magic" app and that seems to manage the battery well on my iPhone.  Maybe it just tweaks the battery meter, who knows, but if I follow it's recommendations and charge it accordingly, I get great results.


----------



## Deltaechoe

Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> I got the "Boost Magic" app and that seems to manage the battery well on my iPhone.  Maybe it just tweaks the battery meter, who knows, but if I follow it's recommendations and charge it accordingly, I get great results.


 

 Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but just about every app claiming to boost your battery life is pure snake oil.  There is no simple software fix for iOS or android in regards to battery life.  The best thing you can do for battery life is to monitor for apps that are preventing the phone from entering standby/deep sleep.


----------



## Terja

Thanks for the feedback Feiao. It isn't much of a big deal, but something take care of for future versions of E17 or maybe via the E19 if you get to that. Thanks for pointing out the Fiio feedback folder. The Fiio E17 really is a great product - keep up the good work!
   
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Sorry, it is a bug but it can not be fixed by yourself unless you send back to us. also it is the same to adjust the volume to the level you are satisfy at 6dB so you don't need to adjust the gain
> 
> 
> BTW, any new bug or quality report please post on our sub forum, http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f180/
> ...


----------



## M-13

Not sure if people know, but it's up on Amazon
   
http://www.amazon.com/FIIO-E17-Alpen-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0070UFMOW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1334117274&sr=1-1
   
  The price is not so good however...


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





deltaechoe said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but just about every app claiming to boost your battery life is pure snake oil.  There is no simple software fix for iOS or android in regards to battery life.  The best thing you can do for battery life is to monitor for apps that are preventing the phone from entering standby/deep sleep.


 

 Not sure about iOS but for android there is an app that allows you to clock down your CPU which would help preserve battery life


----------



## Stonez

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Not sure if people know, but it's up on Amazon
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/FIIO-E17-Alpen-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0070UFMOW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1334117274&sr=1-1
> 
> The price is not so good however...


 


  Woo...!  That's a little steep for sure.  I guess 'caveat emptor' comes into effect.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





manshear said:


> The DAC in the E17 is used on the E17/E9 combo if you connect your source via USB into the back of the E9 or Optical/Coax on top of the E17.  This can't be done with an iPod or iPhone, unfortunately.  You can only bypass the internal amp and not the DAC on the iPod or iPhone, and that is done by using a LOD.  On the iPad, you can bypass the internal DAC by using a powered USB hub and a Camera Connection Kit (CCK).  However, I've been experiencing distortion (or better described as a crackling noise) when using the FLAC Player app on my hi-res FLAC files.  I'm working with Dan Leehr on hopefully correcting this.  The normal  "iPod" interface on the iPad works fine however, and makes my ALAC files sound wonderful!!  When using a USB or SPDIF connection, the combo uses the E17 for the DAC and E9 for amp - or if you switch the bypass switch on the side of the E17 you can dual amp the signal using both the E9 and E17, which also allows you to use the EQ functions on the E17.
> 
> For your iPhone, your best set up is probably using the L3 (which I believe is the higher quality LOD of the ones you have) and plugging it into the back of the E9.  I believe you can then move the switch on the E17 so you're using the amp in it as well.  I can't remember which way you have to have it switched to get it to use the amp on the E17.  If you hear a difference from changing any of the EQ settings, you know you've got it set correctly.
> 
> ...


 


  So in order to use E17's dac and E9's amp on my computer, connect a usb thingy in my computer then put the other end in the E9 then it will use the E17's dac and E9's amp?  I heard you gotta put the thing in lo gain but is it for e9 or e17?  I havent gotten my E17 btw, ordered it on saturday morning.  when should i expect it to arrive at my house?


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Thanks panz.
> 
> How do you go about learning which game has good audio? I always hear people say Battlefield has really good audio, does BT3 also use low quality?


 







 your braking my heart.


----------



## Necrontyr

Almost certainly battlefield is using heavily compressed audio, it has to fit onto a dual layered dvd for xbox 360 and that limitation is usually the bar for quality, cross platform games will most often just use the lowest common denominator for their file sizes, and that includes textures and audio, with exceptions being made for good production studios, utilising the power of the PC or the space on a blu-ray disc.
   
  Only true way to find out would be to look at the install folder of the game and start digging, for instance I know where in the .MPQ files (World of warcraft uses as their custom version of an archive) I would be able to find their audio samples, with those .wav files or whatever there are( i cant remember ) I'd be able to discover the quality.
   
  So either find someone who has found the soundtrack files / sound effects and ask them, or dig for yourself .
   
  Dan


----------



## Mutombo

Can someone just confirm for me that the only way to use the E17 as a DAC only (e.g., to bypass the e17 amp and use an external amp) is with the L7 line out dock?


----------



## ClieOS

mutombo said:


> Can someone just confirm for me that the only way to use the E17 as a DAC only (e.g., to bypass the e17 amp and use an external amp) is with the L7 line out dock?




YES.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





deltaechoe said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but just about every app claiming to boost your battery life is pure snake oil.  There is no simple software fix for iOS or android in regards to battery life.  The best thing you can do for battery life is to monitor for apps that are preventing the phone from entering standby/deep sleep.


 


  I agree, but that's what I meant by following it's recommendations.  It suggested a couple of things I hadn't thought of and by killing those background apps, my battery life was way extended over what it was prior to making those changes.  Perhaps those recommendations are common knowledge to you and others, but they weren't for me so it was still an effective app, no matter how oily it may have been.  Especially for 0.99 cents.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





clieos said:


> YES.


 


  Thanks, Clie.  I forgot to try that set-up last night and there were a few tracks I felt were a little on the fuzzy side due to the dual amping when docked.  I'll give them a listen tonight using the L7 as an interconnect.


----------



## ClieOS

tigrenegrito said:


> Thanks, Clie.  I forgot to try that set-up last night and there were a few tracks I felt were a little on the fuzzy side due to the dual amping when docked.  I'll give them a listen tonight using the L7 as an interconnect.




Be sure the 'LO bypass' switch is in the correct position as well.


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





mutombo said:


> Can someone just confirm for me that the only way to use the E17 as a DAC only (e.g., to bypass the e17 amp and use an external amp) is with the L7 line out dock?


 


  Couldn't you also use the Fiio E9's RCA out's as well to output only the DAC information?


----------



## ClieOS

clarknova said:


> Couldn't you also use the Fiio E9's RCA out's as well to output only the DAC information?




Yes, you can. But then again that won't be E17 by itself and E9 does price much higher than a L7.


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Yes, you can. But then again that won't be E17 by itself and E9 does price much higher than a L7.


 


  I know but its an option. I've found that the L7 introduces a lot of interference problems with my E7 but if I plug the E7 into the E9 , that all disappears. It wasn't a ground loop issue either because it should also effect the E9 USB output which it doesn't. 
   
  Of course , this option is only practical if you already own the E9 which not everyone will , as you mentioned.


----------



## option12

wow. i just got my alpen from Micca today, and geez it makes my UM1's sound so much better. this might actually make my wait bearable (waiting on TF10 reshell refit and new ES5 reshells).
   
  It sounds much better than my old E7. I wish I still had the E7 to compare, but I'm sure everyone already knows how much better it sounds. I really like how it has many more options, especially treble. I think it widens the soundstage of my iphone 4.
   
  On a side note, is anyone using their Alpen with a Clip+ or Clip Zip? Does it still behave like a DAC if that isn't a "true line out"? Or is it purely an amp at that point?


----------



## awisp

B&H has them in stock now, and amazon for $20.00 more than retail.


----------



## M-13

For those of you who ordered from Micca and chose the free shipping, what delivery service did they use? Was it just regular first class mail or was it Priority through USPS? or UPS ground?


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





awisp said:


> B&H has them in stock now, and amazon for $20.00 more than retail.


 


  True but with Amazon Prime membership its free 2 day shipping


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> For those of you who ordered from Micca and chose the free shipping, what delivery service did they use? Was it just regular first class mail or was it Priority through USPS? or UPS ground?


 


  I picked express shipping and that was Priority USPS, so I'd imagine that the free shipping is USPS as well.  Not that it mattered, because it arrived in town on Good Friday and wasn't delivered until Monday, so regular shipping would have put it in my hands on the same date. The upgrade to priority was about $7 though, not really a big deal, especially when you consider that they throw in a free optical cable.


----------



## M-13

Yeah I chose the $6.95 shipping as well (on Monday afternoon) and updates have been very slow on the USPS site (just says the label was created, not even picked up yet). I was wondering if I made a mistake by going with the faster shipping because Priority really isn't all that fast and started wondering about what service regular shipping would have been. How many days did it take for you to receive yours? Did you place your order on Monday? Tuesday? and it could have arrived on Good Friday if it wasn't a holiday?


----------



## TigreNegrito

Ordered it Tuesday April 3 and the online tracking gave me delivery confirmation on Friday, but no mail came Friday and it's a business, so no Saturday delivery either.  I don't know how you can confirm delivery if you didn't deliver it, but that's the US Government for ya.  You should've had yours by now though, I'd think (unless you meant THIS Monday, not the 2nd)  It was a couple days before any tracking info was posted on my shipment, so I wouldn't stress much if you just ordered it this week.


----------



## M-13

Thanks for the info TigreNegrito. I appreciate it. I ordered on the 9th and looks like tracking was updated. It was picked up today in Virginia and my guess is it'll be here around Friday maybe Saturday. I figure if I can't have it by the weekend after ordering on Monday afternoon, the Express shipping of $7 would be a total waste.


----------



## TigreNegrito

Yeah, when I finally got updated shipping info (like two days after I ordered it) it was basically here in town.  I bet you'll have it by the weekend.  Enjoy!


----------



## Bonobo Loco

Just got mine deloivered today... waiting for it to charge. How will I know when it's done? Right now all I see is a red light around the power button.
   
  Anyway I can't wait for this thing to be operational. Been really looking forward to getting this : )


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





option12 said:


> wow. i just got my alpen from Micca today, and geez it makes my UM1's sound so much better. this might actually make my wait bearable (waiting on TF10 reshell refit and new ES5 reshells).
> 
> It sounds much better than my old E7. I wish I still had the E7 to compare, but I'm sure everyone already knows how much better it sounds. I really like how it has many more options, especially treble. I think it widens the soundstage of my iphone 4.
> 
> On a side note, is anyone using their Alpen with a Clip+ or Clip Zip? Does it still behave like a DAC if that isn't a "true line out"? Or is it purely an amp at that point?


 

 What music quality are you feeding it?


----------



## TigreNegrito

Quote: 





bonobo loco said:


> Just got mine deloivered today... waiting for it to charge. How will I know when it's done? Right now all I see is a red light around the power button.
> 
> Anyway I can't wait for this thing to be operational. Been really looking forward to getting this : )


 


  My red light went out after it charged overnight, I assume because it is fully charged.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

I just got my E17 today and have some questions.  Sorry these questions might seem dumb but I'm not familiar with these things
   
  -How do I use my HD600 with the E17 alone?  The thing where you plug it in is too small. 
   
  -Right now I'm using USB from my computer to the E9 and then I put the E17 on the E9...Is that all I need to do to use E17's dac and E9's amp?
   
  -I heard something about this 48k 16 bit thingy which it is showing up on the E17 now...what is that and how do I improve it again?
   
  -Is there any settings you guys would recommend I use to make the sound quality better? 
   
  -I got a some cords, small pieces, etc. in the package with the E17...what are these things for again?
   
  -Is there anything I should know for someone who knows nothing about audio stuff?


----------



## Cassadian

There are several videos on youtube of how to use the E17, I'll link you to one of them.
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axAewk-qFGw


----------



## option12

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Thanks for the info TigreNegrito. I appreciate it. I ordered on the 9th and looks like tracking was updated. It was picked up today in Virginia and my guess is it'll be here around Friday maybe Saturday. I figure if I can't have it by the weekend after ordering on Monday afternoon, the Express shipping of $7 would be a total waste.


 

 Just in case you were wondering, I ordered it Sunday night, it shipped on Monday and I got it today. I did the standard shipping (not expedited) and it shows up as coming in Priority also.


----------



## option12

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> What music quality are you feeding it?


 


  I was trying 320kbps as well as some ALAC. Not sure about the soundstage, it SOUNDS better to me, but I won't deny my bias 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## M-13

This is what I was afraid of... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





option12 said:


> Just in case you were wondering, I ordered it Sunday night, it shipped on Monday and I got it today. I did the standard shipping (not expedited) and it shows up as coming in Priority also.


----------



## RealSlimSeto

Deciding between the E10 and the E17..........


----------



## ClieOS

clarknova said:


> I know but its an option. I've found that the L7 introduces a lot of interference problems with my E7 but if I plug the E7 into the E9 , that all disappears. It wasn't a ground loop issue either because it should also effect the E9 USB output which it doesn't.



I would suspect you have a faulty L7.


----------



## MickeyVee

I have both.. It real depends on your use case.  If it's strictly going to be tied to a desktop and you don't need to go portable, then the E10 will do. If at any time you think that you'll need to go portable, then it's the E17.  Given that, my E10 is sitting in a drawer.. I find the E17 that much better and I do not do the portable thing.. the E17 is either tied to my MacMini or my MBA.
  
  Quote: 





realslimseto said:


> Deciding between the E10 and the E17..........


----------



## steyrshrek

My E17 arrived today so far used it as an amp and as a DAC with my E9, and I like it. Need to listen some more with it but initially I'd say it sounds better than the E7.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Ok I went to properties spdif properties-->advanced then changed the thingy to 24bit 96k now youtube dont have any sound how can i fix this


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





option12 said:


> I was trying 320kbps as well as some ALAC. Not sure about the soundstage, it SOUNDS better to me, but I won't deny my bias
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Well I have a treat for you. Nine Inch Nails is offering a free download of one of their album(The Slip) on the official website(nin.com). You get to chose between many formats... including Flac and WAVE at 24/96. Don't know if you like the band but I took the offer !! 
   
  It's under the Albums tab when you first open the webpage, then click on the free download button below the 'The Slip' album artwork. The higher quality downloads use bittorrent, just an FYI. I'm currently using VLC player for playback


----------



## Stonez

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Well I have a treat for you. Nine Inch Nails is offering a free download of one of their album(The Slip) on the official website(nin.com). You get to chose between many formats... including Flac and WAVE at 24/96. Don't know if you like the band but I took the offer !!
> 
> It's under the Albums tab when you first open the webpage, then click on the free download button below the 'The Slip' album artwork. The higher quality downloads use bittorrent, just an FYI. I'm currently using VLC player for playback


 

 Thanks for this.  I was unaware.  ^5


----------



## wilky61

I bought a pair of AKG Q701s at the beginning of the week, but my E17 didn't arrive until today so I had just been plugging them into my Logitech Z2300's headphone port...
   
  My first impression upon hearing the E17 is that I just wasted $140 (compared a couple 24/96 flac vinyl rips, one 16/48). Even on max volume and at the highest gain setting, the E17 can't match the power of the amp inside the Z2300 anyway... I'm thinking of returning this since I obviously wouldn't listen to Q701s in a portable setting... do DACs/amps experience any significant burn-in or anything that would somehow change my mind?


----------



## dleblanc343

If you want to get rid of it, I'll buy it
  Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> I bought a pair of AKG Q701s at the beginning of the week, but my E17 didn't arrive until today so I had just been plugging them into my Logitech Z2300's headphone port...
> 
> My first impression upon hearing the E17 is that I just wasted $140 (compared a couple 24/96 flac vinyl rips, one 16/48). Even on max volume and at the highest gain setting, the E17 can't match the power of the amp inside the Z2300 anyway... I'm thinking of returning this since I obviously wouldn't listen to Q701s in a portable setting... do DACs/amps experience any significant burn-in or anything that would somehow change my mind?


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Is it better to have lo bypass on?  I got the E17 connected to E9 btw


----------



## hyogen

I'm finding that I enjoy setting treble at 2, while I have bass at around 6


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





stonez said:


> Thanks for this.  I was unaware.  ^5


 

 Your welcome. I downloaded the FLAC version and was going to get the WAVE one also. I however read the FLAC, aldo compressed, still has all the info in it if I were to convert it to WAVE. Anybody want to correct me on this?


----------



## UnarmedLad

You're right. FLAC is a lossless compression format for audio. You can freely convert audio between FLAC, WAV, ALAC, APE and any other lossless audio formats without data loss (except of course tags).

Eagerly anticipating my own E17 from MP4 Nation BTW. Does anyone know how long it will approximately take to get to Western Europe after the EzyParcels Shipment Date?


----------



## Darkblade48

1) Not sure what you are talking about? The HD600 has a standard 3.5 mm plug, but also a 1/4 inch adapter, which is removable. You plug the 3.5 mm end into the Fiio E17.
   
  2 ) As far as I know, yes.
   
  3) You have to go into the DAC properties and adjust.
   
  4) Start from the source (i.e. FLAC or 320 kbps music) and then you can start working on tweaking equalization, if you want.
   
  5) They are various adapters (i.e. instead of using USB, you can use optical cables, etc).
  
  Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> I just got my E17 today and have some questions.  Sorry these questions might seem dumb but I'm not familiar with these things
> 
> -How do I use my HD600 with the E17 alone?  The thing where you plug it in is too small.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  In the first part of the video, when connecting the iPod to the E17 using the male to male 3.5 mm plug, wouldn't that effectively double amplify, since an LOD is not used?
   
  Quote: 





			
				Cassadian said:
			
		

> There are several videos on youtube of how to use the E17, I'll link you to one of them.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axAewk-qFGw


----------



## Gofre

My E17 arrived today, but I can't touch it until my birthday. The wait's going to be awful =P


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> 1) Not sure what you are talking about? The HD600 has a standard 3.5 mm plug, but also a 1/4 inch adapter, which is removable. You plug the 3.5 mm end into the Fiio E17.
> 
> 2 ) As far as I know, yes.
> 
> ...


 


  lol OMG i didnt know we could remove the 1/4 thing and have a 3.55 mm plug...wow...thanks man


----------



## Zage

I got mine too today, been playing around with it and i'm very pleased! it sounds great compared to my old laptops sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Thanks FiiO for great product and mp4nation for fast delivery!


----------



## wilky61

I wouldn't say that you are incorrect, but I will mention that not all .flac files are created equal.
   
  Most commonly, you'll see flac albums online taking up approximately 250 mb of hard drive space (approximately 800-900 kb/s). These are .flacs that have been ripped from a CD source (16 bit/44.1 khz) at a rather high bitrate.
   
  Sometimes, though, you'll be lucky enough to come across a .flac album that is in the neighborhood of 800-900 mb (2994 kb/s, also known as "24 bit"). These have been ripped from a vinyl source and encoded with an extremely high bitrate to preserve the vinyl's sound (24 bit/96 khz is common).
   
  (Also, you can also experience some crackling, etc. when you play a .flac whose origin was a vinyl... the condition of the original ripper's vinyl platter and the software settings of programs such as Audacity can reduce/increase this crackling, etc.)
  
  Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Your welcome. I downloaded the FLAC version and was going to get the WAVE one also. I however read the FLAC, aldo compressed, still has all the info in it if I were to convert it to WAVE. Anybody want to correct me on this?


----------



## lubczyk

Does the Fiio E17 have a full graphical equalizer on the unit itself? If yes, can you save custom presets? Will the EQ bypass other DACs, such as built-in soundcards, iPods, game consoles, et cetera?


----------



## wilky61

I did not see a graphical EQ on the unit. When you go to adjust the bass or to adjust the treble, you see this number line that goes -10, -8, -6, -4, -2, 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. And you adjust the slider on the number line.
   
  Hmm, your second question. I was playing flacs from Foobar2000 (where I have some EQ settings) with the WASAPI driver turned on to pass the bitstream from my laptop to the E17's DAC... and I was noticing the difference in the sound when I was tweaking with the E17's bass settings, so I'm thinking that the E17 EQ settings just add to any other EQ settings from your source... but I'm not an expert at this stuff, so it's possible I understand incorrectly.
  
  Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Does the Fiio E17 have a full graphical equalizer on the unit itself? If yes, can you save custom presets? Will the EQ bypass other DACs, such as built-in soundcards, iPods, game consoles, et cetera?


----------



## yungyaw

Quote: 





unarmedlad said:


> You're right. FLAC is a lossless compression format for audio. You can freely convert audio between FLAC, WAV, ALAC, APE and any other lossless audio formats without data loss (except of course tags).
> Eagerly anticipating my own E17 from MP4 Nation BTW. Does anyone know how long it will approximately take to get to Western Europe after the EzyParcels Shipment Date?


 


  I live in Malaysia. Mine was stated picked up on 30 Mar 2012 and I just got it got it today (12 Apr 2012). I didn't opt for free FedEx delivery, so I already prepared for long delivery schedule. Below is the tracking info from ezyparcels:
   
   

```
CONFIRMED PICK UP 30/Mar/2012 12:54:52 HONG KONG  CONFIRMED PICK UP 03/Apr/2012 16:43:05 HONG KONG  PICK UP ARRIVED AT ORIGIN MAIL HUB 03/Apr/2012 17:17:49 HONG KONG  ITEM PROCESSING AT ORIGIN MAIL HUB 03/Apr/2012 17:22:10 HONG KONG  ITEM DISPATCHED TO DESTINATION MAIL HUB 03/Apr/2012 19:13:41 HONG KONG  ITEM RECEIVED BY DESTINATION MAIL HUB 05/Apr/2012 12:56:43 SINGAPORE  ITEM LODGED INTO DESTINATION MAIL HUB LOCAL POSTAL AGENT 05/Apr/2012 13:04:29 SINGAPORE  DESPATCHED TO OVERSEAS 06/Apr/2012 10:27:00 SINGPOST  ARRIVED AT OVERSEAS 09/Apr/2012 10:33:00
```
   
  I guess part of the delay was due to Chinese holiday in HK and also another public holiday in Malaysia. So if minus out all the holidays and weekends, it is not too bad. We just need to wait patiently. 
   
  Congratulation on your purchase and hope you will enjoy this little gem. Cheers!


----------



## UnarmedLad

wilky61 said:


> I wouldn't say that you are incorrect, but I will mention that not all .flac files are created equal.
> 
> Most commonly, you'll see flac albums online taking up approximately 250 mb of hard drive space (approximately 800-900 kb/s). These are .flacs that have been ripped from a CD source (16 bit/44.1 khz) at a rather high bitrate.
> 
> ...




Indeed, but this is equally true of .wav files. 

EDIT: Thanks Yungyaw!


----------



## Darkblade48

As mentioned, the Fiio E17 doe snot have a full graphical equalizer. It is more of a sliding bar.
   
  The unit will remember your last settings, but cannot remember multiple settings (i.e. if you set your bass at +6 and turn it off, then turn it back on, it will remember it, but you cannot have one preset for headphone A and another preset for headphone B)
   
  If you are using the DAC in the E17, then you will be automatically skipping the sound card DAC. If you are using it with an iPod, you cannot bypass the iPod DAC.
  
  Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Does the Fiio E17 have a full graphical equalizer on the unit itself? If yes, can you save custom presets? Will the EQ bypass other DACs, such as built-in soundcards, iPods, game consoles, et cetera?


----------



## rebo

My E17 just arrived 1 hour ago, this thing puts out such a clean sound. Very impressed.


----------



## lubczyk

Disregard post.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> As mentioned, the Fiio E17 doe snot have a full graphical equalizer. It is more of a sliding bar.
> 
> The unit will remember your last settings, but cannot remember multiple settings (i.e. if you set your bass at +6 and turn it off, then turn it back on, it will remember it, but you cannot have one preset for headphone A and another preset for headphone B)
> 
> If you are using the DAC in the E17, then you will be automatically skipping the sound card DAC. If you are using it with an iPod, you cannot bypass the iPod DAC.


 

  Thank you. That's really helpful. Is there a portable DAC with a full EQ you could recommend? I intend to use the DAC with ATH-M50s and Panasonic RP-HTF600-S with a Toslink out and possibly USB.


----------



## Gofre

For anybody with experience using both, how does an iPod video/E17 pairing compare to the Hisoundaudio Studio-V?


----------



## Darkblade48

What is your source going to be?
   
  For most portable sources (i.e. iPod), the E17 will not act as the DAC, and only as an amplifier.
   
  So, I am not sure if you want a portable DAC or a portable amplifier (or both?). In any case, however, I do not know of any that has a full graphic EQ.
  
  Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Thank you. That's really helpful. Is there a portable DAC with a full EQ you could recommend? I intend to use the DAC with ATH-M50s and Panasonic RP-HTF600-S with a Toslink out and possibly USB.


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=10pt]Guys,[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Download and try these preconfigured foobar2000 archieve, they work awesome with E17.  [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]No need to do addition setting in foobar, use Bass or treble on E17 to tune more as you like.[/size]
   
*[size=10pt]The "forward" config is suitable for:[/size]*[size=10pt] People who prefer a more forward/"in-your-face" sounding soundstage (but improved/larger stage with better imaging/positioning and separation over stock foobar2000), more engaging listening experience. Suitable for people who like the Grado sound or listen to lots of rock, EDM, dance, pop and acoustic etc music. If unsure I'd first try this one as it's more closer to stock foobar2000 sound.[/size]
*[size=10pt]The "laid-back" config is suitable for:[/size]*[size=10pt] People who prefer a more laid-back sounding soundstage with better transparency and more spacious/wider soundstage, more relaxed listening. Suitable for people who prefer sound signatures by for example AKG K70x or Sennheiser HD800 or listen to a lot of classical/orchestra, blues, jazz music. Try this if you think the "forward" config is fatiguing or the vocals too "in-your-face".[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Forward config: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63937904/foobar2000.v1.1.6.Dolby.Headphone-RPGWiZaRD/foobar2000.v1.1.6.Dolby.Headphone.%28Forward%29-RPGWiZaRD.zip[/size]
  [size=10pt]Laid-back config: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63937904/foobar2000.v1.1.6.Dolby.Headphone-RPGWiZaRD/foobar2000.v1.1.6.Dolby.Headphone.%28Laid-back%29-RPGWiZaRD.zip[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]This are EQ creations from RPGWiZaRD, I pulled it from post 284 of thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss/270[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]RPGWiZaRD, is a great Head-fi’er.[/size]


----------



## lubczyk

darkblade48 said:


> What is your source going to be?
> 
> For most portable sources (i.e. iPod), the E17 will not act as the DAC, and only as an amplifier.
> 
> So, I am not sure if you want a portable DAC or a portable amplifier (or both?). In any case, however, I do not know of any that has a full graphic EQ.




My headphones produce enough volume so I would prefer a DAC only.


----------



## Darkblade48

You still have not answered what kind of source you would be using. iPod? Laptop?
   
  If you are using an iPod, then there are very few DAC only options. In addition, they are quite expensive...
   
  If you are looking for a DAC for use with laptop only (i.e. not fully portable as it has no battery), then you could consider the Fiio E10. Of course, you could also consider the E17. However, neither have a fully graphical EQ (I assume you want one like the one that is in Foobar 2000/Winamp?)
  
  Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> My headphones produce enough volume so I would prefer a DAC only.


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 That is correct.  However if you have it so the LO (meaning Line Out) is not bypassed, you will be dual amping the signal and then can use the EQ functions and Gain functions on the E17.  I think you may be confusing lo gain with the LO bypass feature of the E17.  Not sure when you can expect it.  I went through Micca and got it via USPS in about 3 or 4 days.
   


  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 You can also use the more costly E9 as the external amp and figuratively kill two birds with one stone - it's a line out dock and an amp.  The E17 (along with E7) was specifically designed to dock onto the E9.  Both combinations (E17/E9, or E7/E9) make your earphones come alive and your music sound wonderful!  If you are wanting to be able to bypass the E17 amp to use with any other amp on the market, the E7 is the cheapest option.  You could do it with the E9 seeing it has a line out, but that would be a very expensive option if that would be the only reason you had for purchasing it.


----------



## yliu

I got mine recently and I'm very pleased with its sound quality!
   
  Although I still think that the build is a bit flimsy, especially next to an iPod.


----------



## Khaine775

Guys! I've got a bit of a problem. 
   
  I just received my E17 a few days ago, and when I got my new soundcard yesterday (Creative Titanium HD) I was finally set for audio awesomeness - or so I thought. 
   
  I'm using the optical output on the soundcard:

   
  .. and into the E17:

   
  Now, as the setup is at the above picture, everything works fine. Optical out on soundcard into E17 and out through 3.5mm into headphones = everything works.
   
  Now, when I dock the E17 into my E9 and use the 6.5mm headphone (or 3.5 for that matter), nothing happens 

   
  Am I missing something here?
   
  EDIT: It's worth mentionen, that the E17 says "DOCK" when I dock it in the E9, and it's charging the battery, so I can't imagine the docking being faulty


----------



## Tudor01

Hey guys. I just got my Fiio E17, and I already have problems.
  Let me elaborate:
  1) when using USB as input source I get really crap sound, crackling on low passages of songs, just like badly upsampled audio you get when going from 44.1 to 48khz without filtering. It drives me crazy, I've been trying every possible combination of output format, and software/player and still the same. If anyone has any ideea why is this happening please let me know. Using a laptop with Windows 7 64bit.
  2) when using optical everything is fine at 24bit/96khz, sound quality is great, no problems like the ones above. But when I go to 192khz/24bit I get real bad quality. I'm guessing this is due to my crap optical cable. Not a real problem I guess.
  I'm sorry about my first post being so problematic, but I really want to be able to use the usb input, not just for charging. Other than that I'm really impressed by the SNR and SQ of this, and also the bundle of things you get together with the unit.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Picked mine up today!
   
  Started charging it a few hours ago using a mains USB plug, and it's still flashing that it's charging. Have there been any issues with charging?


----------



## Tudor01

Update on my issue: Tested usb input on an older laptop with windows xp and it's working great. Seems to be a problem with the drivers on Windows 7 64, will try to reinstall.
  @Razor-BladE - I've charged it for 10 minutes and after that it starts and you can use it, just keep it plugged in the usb and you can use it until it charges completely I guess (also be sure to have the hold button in the up position in order to start it). I don't understand why the battery comes almost completely discharged (my unit didn't want to turn on at all), this is supposed to be bad for Lithium Ion batteries.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Yeah I know you can use it while charging but I was just going to charge it completely before using it. But I've been charging for over 5 hours and it's still saying charging when by now it should have finished charging and just show full battery?
   
  I've taken it off charge, and it does say full battery so not sure why it was still saying charging. What's the USB CHG thing in the menu?


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





khaine775 said:


> Guys! I've got a bit of a problem.
> 
> I just received my E17 a few days ago, and when I got my new soundcard yesterday (Creative Titanium HD) I was finally set for audio awesomeness - or so I thought.
> 
> ...


 


 Hmm...  Do you also have the E9 connected to your computer via USB?  I'm not sure if it would make a difference.
   
  Is the E17 properly seated in the dock?  I'm just speculating here that the audio connections may not be good because it may not be seated correctly.
   
  Do you have the LO (line out) bypass switch on or off on the E17?  If it is off, you may need to turn up the volume on the E17 to hear a signal.  You should be able to hear something in this case, though very faint - especially with it set at 20 from what I can see in the picture, but you say you hear nothing.
   
  If you take the Optical cable out of the E17 is it still lit up - i.e. do you see the red light coming out of the cable?
   
  What media player are you using?  When I use MediaMonkey, Optical won't work for me, but USB will - though that applies to the E17 alone or in the E9.  Foobar 2000 allows me to use Optical or USB.
   
  I hope one of these helps.


----------



## musicinmymind

First time it takes long time to charge, not to worry I had same experience. You set USB charge off, when you connect to via USB and do not want to suck power from source, example E17 USB connected to iPad/iPhone via Camera connection kit, to bypass DAC on iPad/iPhone and use E17 DAC


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





khaine775 said:


> Guys! I've got a bit of a problem.
> 
> I just received my E17 a few days ago, and when I got my new soundcard yesterday (Creative Titanium HD) I was finally set for audio awesomeness - or so I thought.
> 
> ...


 


  is the sound card selected as the audio output in the control panel?


----------



## TigreNegrito

Okay, so today I tried the setup with USB to L7 plugged into bottom of E17 and then a 3.5 cable from the L7 out to the line in on the back of E9.  The theory was to use E17 DAC only and E9 Amp, but I get no sound difference when wired this way versus E17 on the dock.  Also, in order to 'tweak' the sound with bass/treble, the LO Bypass switch has to be up, and that introduces the E17 amp into the mix, which brings me back to dual amping, something I was trying to get away from.
   
  That said, it's only on occasional tracks where I get a 'fuzzy' sound and that may be more a result of the recording quality than the dual amping.  So what volume level are you guys setting the E17 at when docked and with the LO Bypass switch in the up position?  I've been maxing it out at 60 so that the volume dial on the E17 is in about the same position to give comfortable sound levels despite the position of the LO Bypass switch.  (Both Gain switches in the 0 value, driving, at the moment, Denon AH-D1100's)


----------



## Darkblade48

Mailing laws usually require lithium batteries to be depleted so that they can be mailed. Otherwise, issues can arise. At least the E17 shipped with a battery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  As for the charging, it takes quite a long time (I used a USB port on my laptop). It took about 6 hours or so, I think. Using a wall charger for USB devices might be faster.
   
  As for the USB charge, as mentioned, if it is set to ON, it will recharge the E17 while it is plugged in via USB (i.e. it will take power from your laptop). If set to OFF, it will not. This is handy when you do not want the E17 to drain the battery of your laptop if you are on the go.
   

 Quote:


tudor01 said:


> I don't understand why the battery comes almost completely discharged (my unit didn't want to turn on at all), this is supposed to be bad for Lithium Ion batteries.


 
   
  Quote:


razor-blade said:


> Yeah I know you can use it while charging but I was just going to charge it completely before using it. But I've been charging for over 5 hours and it's still saying charging when by now it should have finished charging and just show full battery?
> 
> I've taken it off charge, and it does say full battery so not sure why it was still saying charging. What's the USB CHG thing in the menu?


----------



## M-13

This is the same experience I had with the E7 and E9. Docked versus using L7 sounded EXACTLY the same.
  
  Quote: 





tigrenegrito said:


> Okay, so today I tried the setup with USB to L7 plugged into bottom of E17 and then a 3.5 cable from the L7 out to the line in on the back of E9.  The theory was to use E17 DAC only and E9 Amp, but I get no sound difference when wired this way versus E17 on the dock.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> I wouldn't say that you are incorrect, but I will mention that not all .flac files are created equal.
> 
> Most commonly, you'll see flac albums online taking up approximately 250 mb of hard drive space (approximately 800-900 kb/s). These are .flacs that have been ripped from a CD source (16 bit/44.1 khz) at a rather high bitrate.
> 
> ...


 


  It was about 1GB in size(924MB).. with the WAVE option being about 1.5GB's. The only reason I found the offer was because I read they were offering high quality downloads when I googled "high quality music downloads". It took many link clicks and reading before I found out.
   
  Edit: anybody using it to connect your headphones to an xbox360/PS3?


----------



## Terja

Mmm ... better is quite relative here. I am using the E17/E9 combo only as a DAC. I find that the powered DAC combo (E9+E17) gives me a fuller more present sound signature. But FWIW I prefer the SQ I get having the lineout bypass active and since I am not using the E9 as an amp, I can pass this SQ directly to my preferred external amp. Hope that helps a bit. PS - I connect to my other amp via the E9 3.5mm line out at the back (better tone); I find the E9 RCA line out a bit hot for my other amp (oh, yeah ... a Bellari HA540 tube amp).
  
  Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Is it better to have lo bypass on?  I got the E17 connected to E9 btw


----------



## Parall3l

My E17 just arrived. Here's a crappy phone camera picture



 Initial impression: Very well built,lots of stuff included. The bass is a bit louder VS unamped.


----------



## hyogen

is velcro tape strong enough to secure an E17 on the back of your iPod or phone or something like PSP? 
   
  That'd be nice not having to use the rubber bands...Anything except the iPod classic and it'd be annoying to move the rubber band to see and use the full touch screen...  and it'd be nice to just unvelcro the E17 and velcro it onto whatever else you might have like a PSP or iPod touch.


----------



## hyogen

hyogen said:


> is velcro tape strong enough to secure an E17 on the back of your iPod or phone or something like PSP?
> 
> That'd be nice not having to use the rubber bands...Anything except the iPod classic and it'd be annoying to move the rubber band to see and use the full touch screen...  and it'd be nice to just unvelcro the E17 and velcro it onto whatever else you might have like a PSP or iPod touch.




just what I was looking for. Perfect! 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/3m-dual-lock-and-attaching-your-player-portable-headphone-amp-page-2

apparently 3M dual lock tape has much better hold than velcro...about 2x as strong so you need 1/2 the surface area. 

I'm gonna do it for my ipod, PSP, maybe even back of laptop! :-D would work for an iPad or tablet also, so that you can use the LOD cable and not need one that's longer than 3".


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





khaine775 said:


> Guys! I've got a bit of a problem.
> 
> I just received my E17 a few days ago, and when I got my new soundcard yesterday (Creative Titanium HD) I was finally set for audio awesomeness - or so I thought.
> 
> ...


 

 The manual says that when docked it goes to the USB input automatically. Have you tried changing the input after it is docked?


----------



## clarknova

Once you dock the E7 or the E17 I would imagine it auto switches both to USB ONLY mode. You can't run optical out unless you undock it. The E9 has always been like this.


----------



## kalbee

@*Khaine775:*
  As far as I know, when using USB connection with E17 docked to E9 on LO bypass, the USB must be plugged to the E9 and not the E17 (well, you can't anyway, its blocked). Perhaps it is limitation of the same sort... + what Radioking59 wrote.


----------



## BlancoTheBull

I've been testing the E17 for about 1 week (but not many hours unfortunatly, NOT alot of time). I've heard a clear improvement when using the E17 (with my HD598) compared to using the E17 together with the E9 (LO bypass on or off, I dont know, I have all functionalities, so double amping). Since I want to use all functionalities of the E17 and can return the E9, that is exactly what I'm going to do. The HD 598 doesn't need alot of power, I don't hear any improvement using E17 + E9 (it's clearly worse).
  When I'm saying clearly worse I mean I hear less distinct tones, drums etc, espesially listening to Amon Tobin (flac).
  But I really like the E17. Before the E17 I had the E7. To be honest I don't hear a clear improvement (I can't compare since I returned the E7). But there is a clear improvement listening to 24/96 (logically). I'm looking forward to the E19, because I really like using a knob instead of using small pushing buttons on a very small and instable E17.
  HD 598 + E17 to me sounds great, but I have nothing to compare (so it's only my oppinion).


----------



## BlancoTheBull

Is Foobar better than Winamp? And if so why?
  Sorry for getting off topic (hope anybody can help).
  I'm trying to get the most out of my music, without spending anymore money  .
   
  ((149E) HD 598 (I'm loving it), together with (139E) E17 (Loving it)).


----------



## erickoh

I've bought and had the E17 for a week.
  Not sure what all the big fuss over it is about.
   
  My headphones (Beyer DT235, Senn HD498) decidedly sound worse on the E17 (via USB, foobar) than from the phone-out of the PC onboard soundcard.
  Then I tried the phoneout from my mobile (samsung note) into the aux-out of the E17. It was very soft (even when gain is 12) and didnt sound as good as direct from the mobile (and the mobile earphone out of the samsung sucks)
   
  Well I dunno, could it be that I got a bad unit, albeit everything about it seems to work...


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> just what I was looking for. Perfect!
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/3m-dual-lock-and-attaching-your-player-portable-headphone-amp-page-2
> apparently 3M dual lock tape has much better hold than velcro...about 2x as strong so you need 1/2 the surface area.
> I'm gonna do it for my ipod, PSP, maybe even back of laptop! :-D would work for an iPad or tablet also, so that you can use the LOD cable and not need one that's longer than 3".


 


  The dual lock tape is great with the E17!


----------



## BlancoTheBull

It's weird but some people seem to notice a big difference and others don't or think it's worse. Perhaps it could be the combi of E17 + Headphone + (....). I dont know.
  But perhaps it takes a while to get used to it, or something. Perhaps some E17's are worse than others. I still have to thouroughly test it, and listen to differences compared to other uses than with E17, (together with my HD 598).


----------



## tyranuus

Right this might be stupid question time.
  My E17/E9 combo arrived today (I intend to use the the setup primarily as DAC feeding headphones and speakers, more so than a portable unit.
   
  On first connection, I was surprised to discover the volume control on the E17 continuing to work independantly of the other volume controls on the speakers/E9. I then realised this was because the LO Bypass to the up position which I assume leaves the amp section of the E17 active. I switched this to the LO Bypass position, and now the volume controls are disabled.
   
  Just to check, I'm assuming this is the best setup for overall sound fidelity, rather than having the amp in the E17 active as well (well I'm assuming active as the volume control/gain etc was working). I've already set the unit to 24/96KHz 
   
  The combo already sounds good without burn in, or the updated E19 base unit, so the future is looking good 
  No obvious popping and clicking which I'd worried about because you always hear people moaning about Windows/USB DACs


----------



## ebmp19

It is, because otherwise you would be double amping. I can't remember for sure, but i'm pretty sure that switch is for if you want to use the EQ (or the amp) on a dock.


----------



## tyranuus

I thought so, I just wanted to check, it's been a whilst since I last really looked at nice audio kit and I couldnt remember for the life of me. The 'chinglish' description for the LO Bypass switch in the manual didn't help amazingly either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Kinda seems strange that it comes with the LO Bypass set to off, so effectively double amps 'out the box', given it's design brief and the fact it is designed to be docked with an E9, and the rumoured E19.
   
  Oh well, sounds great, and certainly handles speakers/headphones in an easier manner than my old Total Bithead, whilst sounding a bit better IMO. Sounds great for natural instrument style arrangements!


----------



## Khaine775

tyranuus said:


> Right this might be stupid question time.
> My E17/E9 combo arrived today (I intend to use the the setup primarily as DAC feeding headphones and speakers, more so than a portable unit.
> 
> On first connection, I was surprised to discover the volume control on the E17 continuing to work independantly of the other volume controls on the speakers/E9. I then realised this was because the LO Bypass to the up position which I assume leaves the amp section of the E17 active. I switched this to the LO Bypass position, and now the volume controls are disabled.
> ...


 



  What kind of source (and how is it connected) do you use with it? 
   
  I still can't get mine to work with optical out from my PC. Sure, it defaults to USB, when I dock the E17 into the E9, but I can still turn it back to optical. Could it really be that you're only able to use this combo with USB? That would suck, since there's no USB output on my Titanium HD -.-


----------



## acenima

Would a fiio e17 benefit Ultrasone DJ1's?


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





khaine775 said:


> What kind of source (and how is it connected) do you use with it?
> 
> I still can't get mine to work with optical out from my PC. Sure, it defaults to USB, when I dock the E17 into the E9, but I can still turn it back to optical. Could it really be that you're only able to use this combo with USB? That would suck, since there's no USB output on my Titanium HD -.-


 


 I use the Optical input on the E17 while docked in the E9.  It looks like you are still having trouble.  That 's a bummer.  I've found with my sound card, it is a bit of a hassle to get the optical out to work, but it looks like you were able to get it to work on just the E17 alone.  I'm at a loss here.


----------



## veracocha

e17 cannot play 192/24 bit flac files !! even at optical output ?!?!?  96/24 bit play via optical but too much popping and clippping !!! I'm using foobar


----------



## ClieOS

veracocha said:


> e17 cannot play 192/24 bit flac files !! even at optical output ?!?!?  96/24 bit play via optical but too much popping and clippping !!! I'm using foobar




FLAC or not has nothing to do with E17. It has to do with the decoder of the FLAC files, meaning the playback software. Judging from the symptoms, it is likely a driver or setting error between Foobar and E17.


----------



## veracocha

Quote: 





clieos said:


> FLAC or not has nothing to do with E17. It has to do with the decoder of the FLAC files, meaning the playback software. Judging from the symptoms, it is likely a driver or setting error between Foobar and E17.


 


  So ? What Can I do ?


----------



## M-13

Just got my E17. WOW... this thing is a huge upgrade from the E10, which I owned for several weeks. It's a much bigger gap than I was expecting in terms of sonics. Fiio has really stepped up their build quality as well... makes my E7 look like a piece of junk and sound like one too, build quality is even better than the E10. Seeing this thing in person I would have easily paid $200 for it if not more... Very happy. Great work Fiio! I can only imagine what the E27 would look and sound like... so in closing, E17 is ridiculously awesome.


----------



## Deltaechoe

Just got my e17 in the mail like 5 minutes ago, its already unboxed and charging.  Unfortunately the battery had absolutely no power in it when it came so I have to charge it for a bit before I can test it out
   
  EDIT: Charged it enough that it's working and wow the thing sounds pretty nice.  Definitely an upgrade over the E7 that I was borrowing from my friend for school.
   
  Alright after listening to my recording of the royal philharmonic orchestra playing Eine Kleine Nachtmusik movement 1 Allegro (I know this recording quite well), I have come to the conclusion that this DAC is price well below what it is worth.  If you want the best bang for your buck, this little guy is the way to go.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





acenima said:


> Would a fiio e17 benefit Ultrasone DJ1's?


 


  I'll let you know, give me some time for my friend to return my DJ1's lol.
  Edit: hold up, brain crash... I have both now. LOL. I'll PM you.


----------



## ClieOS

veracocha said:


> So ? What Can I do ?




Check the setting and perhaps try another player, or even another computer? Also, since you are using SPDIF, you need to ensure the SPDIF transcoder chip on your PC support 24/192 as well.


----------



## RealSlimSeto

Quote: 





erickoh said:


> I've bought and had the E17 for a week.
> Not sure what all the big fuss over it is about.
> 
> My headphones (Beyer DT235, Senn HD498) decidedly sound worse on the E17 (via USB, foobar) than from the phone-out of the PC onboard soundcard.
> ...


 


  Well, this is surprising.
   
  Has anyone else compared the E17s to their onboard soundcards?


----------



## ObeyurMaster

Quote: 





realslimseto said:


> Well, this is surprising.
> 
> Has anyone else compared the E17s to their onboard soundcards?


 


  I did find a considerable change in SQ from my Dell laptop's headphone out to both E7 and the E17. Mostly because my on-board soundcard is total crap.


----------



## projectdark

Really need help with something E17 related.
   
  Mine arrived a day and a week ago, first few days were great, had never listened to anything with an amp before so I was ecstatic about the upgrade. Just recently now, within the last two days, I've noticed an annoying crackle / fuzzy / popping sound happening randomly in music I play as well as audio from video games. It is beyond annoying.
   
  I have it set up through USB along with my Sennheiser HD558's. And I have also changed the bitrate to the higher quality allowed through USB, 92K Hz.
   
  I've tried the amp with my iPod Touch and I think it sounds fine, but i'll have to check it again more extensively and post back.
   
  Please help me out in figuring out the problem
   
  -Max


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





realslimseto said:


> Well, this is surprising.
> 
> Has anyone else compared the E17s to their onboard soundcards?


 

 Generally speaking, most on board integrated audio cards out put horrible audio quality, so most of these computers do benefit from the E17.
   
  Since Erickoh didn't mentioned what type of computer and soundcard he owns, i would assume that either:
  1. He has a high quality soundcard that makes the E17  "decidedly sound worse" in comparison.
  or
  2. His E17 might be broken as he suggested.
   
  Personally, i notice a significant difference in sound quality when i am using my E17, and the difference can not be understated. Furthermore, i definitely notice an increase in sound quality with the cheap ($25) X-fi go by Creative Audio.


----------



## tyranuus

Quote: 





khaine775 said:


> What kind of source (and how is it connected) do you use with it?


 

 Mine's connected via USB unfortunately, as thats how I'd always intended to use it rather than optical/coax. Only reason I bought the E9 is because it has speaker outs which I wanted for easy flexibility.


----------



## H20Fidelity

Quote: 





projectdark said:


> Really need help with something E17 related.
> 
> Mine arrived a day and a week ago, first few days were great, had never listened to anything with an amp before so I was ecstatic about the upgrade. Just recently now, within the last two days, I've noticed an annoying crackle / fuzzy / popping sound happening randomly in music I play as well as audio from video games. It is beyond annoying.
> 
> ...


 


  Try using a different USB port. I've read about someone having a similar problem


----------



## AykDaddy

Guys I kind of asked this question before but somehow am still uncertain on how to use the E17 as a DAC only.
   
  I want to hook up the E17 on my MacBook Pro via optical cable and then use the Headstage Arrow as an AMP. To avoid double amping i was told to use the L7 with the E17.
  Thats cool. But how do I connect the AMP to the E17+L7?
   
  I know this question sounds stupid but once you hook up the L7 to the E17 you have 3 different ports you can connect the AMP:
   
  - Via the regular Headphone out of the E17
  - Via the LineOut of the L7 on the bottom
  - Via the USB Out of the L7
   
   
  Which one should I use to make it sound best??


----------



## KT66

- Via the LineOut of the L7 on the bottom


----------



## AykDaddy

Thanks!!


----------



## kalbee

realslimseto said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




For one my onboard sound card has noise.
E17 is a definite improvement on my system (Acer laptop). But some headphones I can use either way and not be bothered.


----------



## yliu

My experience is that the E17 definitely sounds better than iPod amps, but I still think the headphone out on my Denon AV Receiver sounds better than the E17.


----------



## projectdark

h20fidelity said:


> Try using a different USB port. I've read about someone having a similar problem


 
   
  Yep, I've tried multiple ports on the back as well as the two on the front of my case
   
  And the problem isn't apparent when using the amp with my iPod, so it's either my motherboard or the usb cable, I don't know what to do about it


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





projectdark said:


> Yep, I've tried multiple ports on the back as well as the two on the front of my case
> 
> And the problem isn't apparent when using the amp with my iPod, so it's either my motherboard or the usb cable, I don't know what to do about it


 

 First, try using the E17 and the same USB cable on a different computer to determine if it is the motherboard. If the problem disappears, you know it is an issue with the computer you are currently using. If it persists, then it is something else.
   
  Try using a different USB cable.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





projectdark said:


> Yep, I've tried multiple ports on the back as well as the two on the front of my case
> 
> And the problem isn't apparent when using the amp with my iPod, so it's either my motherboard or the usb cable, I don't know what to do about it


 


  Send it to me, I'll test it


----------



## M-13

I'm thinking it's your E17. My reason is that I've had the pleasure of owning 4 different E10s in the last couple of months, thanks to build quality issues. Two of the E10s had faint crackling noises in quiet passages of songs. It would come and go, but 2 of them did not. I realize the E10 is not the E17, but they're both Fiio Amp/Dac products. I would try a different computer and if the problem persists then be advised that it probably is the E17. For what it's worth my E17 does not have this problem (knock on wood).

  
  Quote: 





projectdark said:


> Yep, I've tried multiple ports on the back as well as the two on the front of my case
> 
> And the problem isn't apparent when using the amp with my iPod, so it's either my motherboard or the usb cable, I don't know what to do about it


----------



## Khaine775

Quote: 





manshear said:


> I use the Optical input on the E17 while docked in the E9.  It looks like you are still having trouble.  That 's a bummer.  I've found with my sound card, it is a bit of a hassle to get the optical out to work, but it looks like you were able to get it to work on just the E17 alone.  I'm at a loss here.


 


  But do you use the output on the E9 or the E17 when running it like that? I can get it to work like that as well, when I use the output on the E17, but I can only assume that's because the E9 isn't used at all - except for charging the E17 that is.
   
  I've now also tried to go the USB way.

 USB into the E9 and out through the headphone jack on the E9 = nothing
  USB into the E9 and out through the E17 = sound
   
  Which is what I don't understand. I'm controlling the volume on the E17 this way, nothing happens on the E9, so I assume I'm using ONLY the E17 with the E9 just acting as an USB interface. It actually sounds better, when I just use optical with my E17, probably because of my soundcard being superior to my motherboard. 
   


  As described above, this combo works. PC, USB > E9 > out from E17 (ignore the OPT on the screen, it defaults to USB when you plug it in). But it doesn't make much sense to me, as it sounds inferior compared to just using the E17 with optical out from my soundcard.
   

   
  This is how I imagine it should look like, when working properly with USB. PC > USB > E9 > out from E9 using the headphone jack. 
  You can't see it on the picture, but the E17 IS set to USB and so are the settings on my PC. 
   
  Have I misunderstood how the E9/E17 combo works?
   
  It's also worth mentioning, that everything works on its own, so I find it hard to believe it's broken hardware somewhere in the setup.


----------



## xeroian

agentxxl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sadly such a cable doesn't seem to work.

I started with the same setup as you complete with the same Belkin powered hub.

Decided I don't want to take all this kit on the road so worked up a cable solution. The red USB plug is plugged into my ipad3 charger. When I switch everything on the iPad still says the attached device requires too much power even though only the white and green data wires are connected to the CCK. However if I put the Belkin hub back in place between the CCK and the other USB plug everything works even when the Belkin hub is not connected to it's power brick. Figure that!

To confirm everything was okay with the cables I plugged in my E7 in place of the E17 and also removed the hub. To make the test tougher I also set the E7 to charge through USB = ON

The E7 works and shows it is being charged ! But why does the E17 need a passive hub in the circuit? Or is the CCK that has to be fooled?

Ian


----------



## acenima

does the fiio e17 DAC bypass the ipod touch 4th gen DAC with the L9 cable?


----------



## bowei006

acenima said:


> does the fiio e17 DAC bypass the ipod touch 4th gen DAC with the L9 cable?




No, LODs will not bypass an idevices DAC, only amp and headphone jack ciruitry.

Im back from my vacation now  

And you brought bad memories. I just lost my L9 comming back from vacation today


----------



## wilky61

I did not know this. Why would a person ever want a portable DAC then?
   
  (EDIT: Or I guess the issue here is what is meant by the word "portable"? When I think portable, I think take it in my pocket with me... I can see the difference between plugging a DAC into a laptop's USB port on the go vs. plugging a DAC into a power outlet at home... but why would a person ever want a battery-operated pocket-sized DAC such as the E17?)
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> No, LODs will not bypass an iDevice's DAC, only amp and headphone jack circuitry.


----------



## bowei006

Just wanted to put it out there but I am about to buy in a store an AKG Q701 for $100


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> I did not know this. Why would a person ever want a portable DAC then?
> 
> (EDIT: Or I guess the issue here is what is meant by the word "portable"? When I think portable, I think take it in my pocket with me... I can see the difference between plugging a DAC into a laptop's USB port on the go vs. plugging a DAC into a power outlet at home... but why would a person ever want a battery-operated pocket-sized DAC such as the E17?)


 

 not sure, does the amp+dac work on a clip+?


----------



## projectdark

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> First, try using the E17 and the same USB cable on a different computer to determine if it is the motherboard. If the problem disappears, you know it is an issue with the computer you are currently using. If it persists, then it is something else.
> 
> Try using a different USB cable.


 
  I tried it with my dad's laptop with the same usb cable and it seems to be fine. It must be my motherboard
   
  Would anyone here have any idea why my PC's motherboard is causing this crackling?
   
  It's a shame because the whole reason I bought the E17 is to get rid of the static/fuzzy sound, which was barely noticeable before. The E17 has only amplified it to the point I don't want to listen to music.


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





projectdark said:


> I tried it with my dad's laptop with the same usb cable and it seems to be fine. It must be my motherboard
> 
> Would anyone here have any idea why my PC's motherboard is causing this crackling?
> 
> It's a shame because the whole reason I bought the E17 is to get rid of the static/fuzzy sound, which was barely noticeable before. The E17 has only amplified it to the point I don't want to listen to music.


 
   
  get a newer motherboard than? motherboard or power supply.


----------



## bowei006

Try it with another computer first to ascertain its your computer causing the crackling and not the E17


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> I did not know this. Why would a person ever want a portable DAC then?
> 
> (EDIT: Or I guess the issue here is what is meant by the word "portable"? When I think portable, I think take it in my pocket with me... I can see the difference between plugging a DAC into a laptop's USB port on the go vs. plugging a DAC into a power outlet at home... but why would a person ever want a battery-operated pocket-sized DAC such as the E17?)


 



 The E17 not only functions as a portable DAC, but it is also an AMP as well. Some people have portable Sources other than idevices that the E17 can by pass their DAC, that is why a person would want a portable DAC/AMP.
   
  Personally, i use my E17 with my iphone 4 because it can really crank up the sound with its awesome amp. In addition to that, the E17 has a bass and treble adjustments, and i love the fact that it can pump up the bass in my headphones for some of the bass heavy music i listen to. Another thing that is awesome about it is the fact you can adjust the balance in the left in right ear, and i have actually found a good use for it. Some of the older reggae tracks i listen to, for some reason, have the voice or most sound slightly more focused on the left side. With the E17, i can adjust the balance to center the music.
   
  So anyways, i think what you really meant to ask is why would someone want an E17 for their idevice, and the reason why is to use the E17's amp function.


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





bleether said:


> The E17 not only functions as a portable DAC, but it is also an AMP as well. Some people have portable Sources other than idevices that the E17 can by pass their DAC, that is why a person would want a portable DAC/AMP.
> 
> Personally, i use my E17 with my iphone 4 because it can really crank up the sound with its awesome amp. In addition to that, the E17 has a bass and treble adjustments, and i love the fact that it can pump up the bass in my headphones for some of the bass heavy music i listen to. Another thing that is awesome about it is the fact you can adjust the balance in the left in right ear, and i have actually found a good use for it. Some of the older reggae tracks i listen to, for some reason, have the voice or most sound slightly more focused on the left side. With the E17, i can adjust the balance to center the music.
> 
> So anyways, i think what you really meant to ask is why would someone want an E17 for their idevice, and the reason why is to use the E17's amp function.


 

 do you know if the DAC portion atleast works for the Clip+?


----------



## bowei006

^IS your question if the E17 will bypass the clip+ DAC? To my knowledge no.


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ^IS your question if the E17 will bypass the clip+ DAC? To my knowledge no.


 


  yes that was my question, thanks.
   
  I don't own any amps or dac except a asus xonar dg sound card. Not sure how much the fiio e17 would benefit my ultrasone dj1. I want more bass and more clear vocals
   
  EDIT: I read your review by the way  good job, still thinking if i should get the fiio e17 or not >_<


----------



## bowei006

^the sound change is different for everyone. Bu i have the hfi 580. The dj1 are the same except for a faceplat change. With the Eq and byitself you get more bass and highs and trebles. Need more bass for that modern hip hop song? Up it to +4dB bass(what I like). Want those vocals to burn? +2/+4dB treble. Wanna go a natural and experience true audiophileness? Lose the EQ and listen to the E17 in its pure self as a computer DAC


----------



## acenima

bowei006 said:


> ^the sound change is different for everyone. Bu i have the hfi 580. The dj1 are the same except for a faceplat change. With the Eq and byitself you get more bass and highs and trebles. Need more bass for that modern hip hop song? Up it to +4dB bass(what I like). Want those vocals to burn? +2/+4dB treble. Wanna go a natural and experience true audiophileness? Lose the EQ and listen to the E17 in its pure self as a computer DAC




I read somewhere that the dac in my sound card is better than the e17 but the amp in my sound card isn't very good.

I listen to mostly EDM(electric dance music). so like trance and hardstyle, techno, etc. do you recommend the fiio e17 for me?


----------



## bowei006

DAC in Asus Dg better? I dont have time to check but wasnt the DG the card I coulf get for $20 new and $10openbox? If it is then what is the DAC? Doubt its better than an Wolfson WM8740 that has been implemented well in the E17

The E17 is a universal product(FiiO intended) it doesnt have really any biases so all music work well with it. Are their better synergetic pairs? Havent tried them with my 580s so I cant tell you but the E17 does do EDM well for me when I listen to it. The punchybass and EQ options is really what makes it for me


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> DAC in Asus Dg better? I dont have time to check but wasnt the DG the card I coulf get for $20 new and $10openbox? If it is then what is the DAC? Doubt its better than an Wolfson WM8740 that has been implemented well in the E17
> The E17 is a universal product(FiiO intended) it doesnt have really any biases so all music work well with it. Are their better synergetic pairs? Havent tried them with my 580s so I cant tell you but the E17 does do EDM well for me when I listen to it. The punchybass and EQ options is really what makes it for me


 


  yea its a great low budget card thats great coming from other posters on here, I got it for around $30. the chipset is "C-Media CMI8786 High-Definition Sound Processor (Max. 96KHz/24bit)" Im not a technical engineer person so not sure if thats good or not  Im gearing toward the fiio e17  gonna do some more reading before i buy


----------



## bowei006

I had a member come to me that claimed to have read all 120pages. Try tht for "some" reading


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





acenima said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 trance is what i listen to mostly and I highly recommend the E17.  the hybrid desktop tube amp that i just sold was about the same in terms of amping power/quality.  Pretty indistinguishable for me and a friend who tried both amps out with different sources and headphones


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I had a member come to me that claimed to have read all 120pages. Try tht for "some" reading


 
  lol so much reading  i'll pass on the 120 pages xD i did read some of the pages though
  
   

  
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> trance is what i listen to mostly and I highly recommend the E17.  the hybrid desktop tube amp that i just sold was about the same in terms of amping power/quality.  Pretty indistinguishable for me and a friend who tried both amps out with different sources and headphones


 
  thanks for the input


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





acenima said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I also got the E17 thinking I wouldn't use the bass boost or treble boost at all....  and I'm all about a very neutral sounding headphone (which is why I have DT880 and TF10).  trance and electronic music are easy to hear bass, and I didn't find either headphone to be lacking in bass at all.......until I tried the E17.............  It does a FANTASTIC job of JUST boosting the bass   I keep mine at around 6 or 8/10 and even raise the treble to 2/10.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I had a member come to me that claimed to have read all 120pages. Try tht for "some" reading


 

 Common ;] if you preorder the E17 you started from the birth to the maturity of this thread


----------



## hyogen

Will dual lock the PSP soon...probably not my iPad2..   If I get a Galaxy Tab, I'll probably 3M dual lock the back...thinking about doing it for the back of the screen of my netbook...    Just did the iPod today.  Kinda want the low profile Dual Lock now, but this isn't bad.  FYI the gap is a little more than the height of the included bumpers.  Even with the bumpers, the ipod and E17 can't fit in the E17 pouch, which is my goal....so I guess I'll be removing the bumpers and trying the low profile dual lock.  This is SUPER strong--takes a bit of effort to pry them open 
   
  I like the clean look of being rubberband-less...and it's way more suitable for a touch screen dap....but the rubber bands definitely make you look more hardcore audiophile.....especially if they're covering up part of your screen 
   
  So, this new iPod (I stuck the dual lock on a screen protector on the back).....someone wants to trade me a like-new E17 for it.  it's a 5.5gen 30gb..like new with front plastic still on it.       *Should I do it.......?*   Have an extra E17 to give to my dad or something....and then I can just get a Galaxy S phone again with a memory card slot this time (Nexus S has no slot!!    )
   
  I'd either be getting a Galaxy S like the Samsung Vibrant or Captivate.....or maybe a Cowon like the D3.


----------



## Necrontyr

Yes, preorder was the torture that kept us coming back for new news on batch shipments and speculation  I'm proud to say I've read all 190 pages 
   
  I for one have been setting the bass to 4-6/10 and the treble to 2/10 for most music, paired with the HE 400 it makes the bass-head inside me giggle, but is probably a bit overkill, however on my HD595's setting the bass to 6 is almost a necessity, and I'm glad fiio did such a great job on calibrating the 5 steps up to 10, I was/am very impressed with how natural the steps are on the music, no feeling of "wrongness" that sometimes happens when you play with desktop eq settings. 
   
  Oh and on another note, the Fiio is an amazing product for stationary listening, like at a desktop, for example, I have it charging/connected to my macbook, which I occassionally watch SC2 videos on, whilst its also connected to my primary gaming pc via optical cable for when I'm doing high end listening / gaming, and all the while I can still leave it plugged into my iPod touch via line out, and I can toggle between all 3 at the flick of a button, its amazing utility for when you settle down for the weekend, I for one don't leave my gaming pc from 11am till 1am all weekend after a full week of 9-5 , so I am so glad I can use my HE-400's with 3 sources at the flick of a switch )))


----------



## hyogen

Has anyone tried Klipsch X10 iems with E17?   How's the synergy?   That's the IEM my dad uses.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you root the captivate and get voodoo, it'll undoubtedly sound better than the Fuze.  The Samsung Note will suck--b/c it doesn't have a Wolfson DAC in it like the Samsung Captivate does -_-


----------



## acenima

Just ordered my Fiio e17 and L9 cable from miccastore. now to play the waiting game


----------



## Deltaechoe

mmmm, this device is nice for school.  E17 + MOG + quiet computer lab = lots of work done while being somewhat happy


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]I have both X10 and E17, my observation is X10 do not gain from must from E17 almost sound similar to iPhone4 as source. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]TF10 gain with E17 is huge[/size]


----------



## bowei006

I will be waiting for info on E19. I need a affordable great price to performance ratio driving amp. It should pair better with E17 as the true combo buddy probably. FiiO should be working on fixing the semi isolated issues with the E9 too :/ hopefully. I think an updated batch was released a while back but i still hear of some issues. A look at that would be great FiiO  *wink wink hint hint*

E17 gain with Shure SRH440 at actual analyzing volumes has a good boost

Very minor one with Soundmagic pl11

A good one with ultrasones hfi 580 especially if you are doing studio work.. Less so with music listening

A huge one with Q701.. As the akgs need some actual power to grt it going.

These are my opinions with no EQ and E17 as dac and amp


----------



## Gofre

Does anybody have any experience with the E17 and the Soundmagic A10? How does the bass boost functionality compare?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gofre said:


> Does anybody have any experience with the E17 and the Soundmagic A10? How does the bass boost functionality compare?


 


http://www.head-fi.org/t/596482/the-sub-100-portable-amps-shootout-7-1-amps-compared
   
  Also by CLEIOS. I can summarize and CLEIOS's conclusion was that even the E11 was better.


----------



## gohanssjn

bowei006 said:


> I will be waiting for info on E19




Me too, I need to get this E17 off my desk on its back all the time!


----------



## tiesto141141

Hello !
  
 I just bought an HD25-1 ii for portable use (iphone 4S and Nano) and also for desktop use (macbook pro 2010), both with lossless media, should i buy an E17 or the quality gained would be too weak to spend more money ?
  
 thanks


----------



## MickeyVee

I had the HD25 and the E17 definitely took them to another level on the desktop (MackBook Air).  I really never bothered using the E17 with my iPhone as it was just too much of a hassle given the SQ improvement.  I did really enjoy them with the MBA & E17.  I believe that it's worth the improvement. YMMV.
  
  Quote: 





tiesto141141 said:


> Hello !
> 
> I just bought an HD25-1 ii for portable use (iphone 4S and Nano) and also for desktop use (macbook pro 2010), both with lossless media, should i buy an E17 or the quality gained would be too weak to spend more money ?
> 
> thanks


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ^the sound change is different for everyone. Bu i have the hfi 580. The dj1 are the same except for a faceplat change. With the Eq and byitself you get more bass and highs and trebles. Need more bass for that modern hip hop song? Up it to +4dB bass(what I like). Want those vocals to burn? +2/+4dB treble. Wanna go a natural and experience true audiophileness? Lose the EQ and listen to the E17 in its pure self as a computer DAC


 


  I can't see how people would increase the treble on 580/DJ1's... they are painful already, LOL.


----------



## djywcahello

Call me crazy, but I'm unable to convince myself that I can tell a difference in audio fidelity between the FiiO e17 and my on-board MacBook Pro amp/DAC. I am using a pair of AKG Q701 cans.
   
  I can certainly hit higher volumes with the FiiO, but I was somewhat disappointed (with myself) that I don't hear an obvious difference in the actual sound quality. I've tried giving myself an ABX test of sorts, which I would really need someone else to administer for me, but even so, I'm not hearing anything terribly discerning. The low end doesn't seem any different in volume or response. I've experimented with a wide array of music styles, all at 320 CBR.
   
  As it stands, I might take the 15% restocking + shipping fee hit and return this item. I only use my AKGs at my computer anyway, which seems to get them loud enough. Please, either:
   
  1) Point out what I am missing here
  2) Take my FiiO with a couple hours of usage off of my hands


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> I can't see how people would increase the treble on 580/DJ1's... they are painful already, LOL.


 
  I have these babies burned in at ~200 hours. The vocals are weird due to S-Logic, they are both forward and harsh and backwards passive. But on some songs, DUE to the producing or recording of the track, the vocals are too backwards and need to be brought forward more FOR the HFI 580's. ITs different for every song and every headphone. Thus an active EQ'ing system like the E17's where you can change on the go is great. I don't like the one's on PMP's(unless it's an audiophile PMP) as you are just EQ'ing the internal amp and not your external amp(if you are dual amping) which just....grosses me out.
  
  I like my vocals hot sometimes  They are quite painful at times and I do need a recession sometimes. IT's song and mood dependent really.
   
  Got a full rack now guys


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





djywcahello said:


> Call me crazy, but I'm unable to convince myself that I can tell a difference in audio fidelity between the FiiO e17 and my on-board MacBook Pro amp/DAC. I am using a pair of AKG Q701 cans.
> 
> I can certainly hit higher volumes with the FiiO, but I was somewhat disappointed (with myself) that I don't hear an obvious difference in the actual sound quality. I've tried giving myself an ABX test of sorts, which I would really need someone else to administer for me, but even so, I'm not hearing anything terribly discerning. The low end doesn't seem any different in volume or response. I've experimented with a wide array of music styles, all at 320 CBR.
> 
> ...


 


  IT's all fine my brother. These are all different on people. I have had plenty of posts detailing how it is different for everyone. How everyone hears and what they "hear for" is different. I couldn't tell the difference at first too. It took a long time on HEad-Fi and many headphones to learn how to "do it". I have gotten very high ABX tests but that isn't a direct corelation with this device.
   
  Anyway, if you can't hear a difference and your computer's volume is loud enough(i'm a bit amazed that it is) and you really can't justify it then it may be time to let go of it. But if you still have the option of a few more days I would just sit down and play songs and take long listens. First on your MBP and then on the E17. And then.....get the gut feeling. What sounded right. For beginners it may be easier for your gut to tell you that it sounded the same or that amped tonality sound was better as your ears may not conciously know what to tell yet(was what I was like at first)
   
  Anyway, this isn't for everyone. If you ever get to that point in life and want an DAC again..we will be waiting here on Head-Fi  and if you just need power for driving. There are plenty of desktop and portable amps for that purpose and are cheaper.


----------



## hyogen

musicinmymind said:


> I have both X10 and E17, my observation is X10 do not gain from must from E17 almost sound similar to iPhone4 as source.
> 
> TF10 gain with E17 is huge



thanks.. I have read x10s don't respond well to another amp as well...


----------



## wilky61

If I wanted to use the E17's SPDIF-In to experience 24 bit/192 kHz with my laptop as the source, what output/adapter would I use? It looks like my laptop only has USB ports, a headphone jack, and an HDMI-out... but I also have the 3.5mm to RCA adapter that came with the E17.
   
  Furthermore, I also have a 3-ft Toslink-to-Mini optical cable and Toslink-to-Mini optical adapter since I ordered the E17 from MiccaStore.
   
  So, please help me make sense of all these acronyms! Do I need like an RCA to SPDIF adapter or something?
   
  And is "Toslink" related to "SPDIF" at all? In other words, what in the hell is Toslink?


----------



## ClieOS

wilky61 said:


> If I wanted to use the E17's SPDIF-In to experience 24 bit/192 kHz with my laptop as the source, what output/adapter would I use? It looks like my laptop only has USB ports, a headphone jack, and an HDMI-out... but I also have the 3.5mm to RCA adapter that came with the E17.
> 
> Furthermore, I also have a 3-ft Toslink-to-Mini optical cable and Toslink-to-Mini optical adapter since I ordered the E17 from MiccaStore.
> 
> ...




Use the USB connection for 24/96. There isn't any practical difference between 24/96 and 24/192 unless you have files that must be played in 24/192. Don't buy into the myth that just because you are using 24/192, it will get you better sound. It doesn't work that way. Read this: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

To get you laptop to output SPDIF signal, you will need an USB-to-SPDIF converter, which will probably add jitter into the signal and really gains nothing much in your situation. A waste of money mostly.

SPDIF connection comes in two forms: optical and coaxial. Optical is also being referred as TOSlink, short for 'Toshiba Link' as the standard we are using now for the optical connection is established and branded by Toshiba. Yeah, google.


----------



## wilky61

Thank you for the reply and the information; I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to check out the 24/192 thing using my laptop as the source. Not that I am disappointed with 24/96, but I have been curious. 

Yeah, I tried a google-search and did learn some things (saw that SPDIF is a connection and that Toslink is a connector...) but some of the other things I read also confused me. So I figured I'd leave my original post here unedited and see what helpful information I received. That Neil Young link just makes me wish I'd been an electrical engineer instead of an industrial/systems engineer. He seems to be arguing against what most posters here anecdotally report, though... about being able to perceive differences in quality/tonality between 16/44.1 and, say, 24/96.



clieos said:


> wilky61 said:
> 
> 
> > If I wanted to use the E17's SPDIF-In to experience 24 bit/192 kHz with my laptop as the source, what output/adapter would I use? It looks like my laptop only has USB ports, a headphone jack, and an HDMI-out... but I also have the 3.5mm to RCA adapter that came with the E17.
> ...


----------



## UnityIsPower

I just got my second E17 and wanted to know if I can use my router usb port to charge it quicker without any bad effects. Its a 1.5 amp port compared to the PC's 500mA port.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> I just got my second E17 and wanted to know if I can use my router usb port to charge it quicker without any bad effects. Its a 1.5 amp port compared to the PC's 500mA port.


 


  A second one? Wow!!! You must really like it!
   
  Dont take this as a real answer but I will charge my devices with really most ports. Sure the faster and more power charge may degrade battery but I find that it's a small effect. IF it will fry the device? Don't know. But I do charges with my Airport Extreme and printer sometimes when I run out of holes.
   
  You should come back to our regular discussion thread Unity


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Use the USB connection for 24/96. There isn't any practical difference between 24/96 and 24/192 unless you have files that must be played in 24/192. Don't buy into the myth that just because you are using 24/192, it will get you better sound. It doesn't work that way. Read this: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
> To get you laptop to output SPDIF signal, you will need an USB-to-SPDIF converter, which will probably add jitter into the signal and really gains nothing much in your situation. A waste of money mostly.
> SPDIF connection comes in two forms: optical and coaxial. Optical is also being referred as TOSlink, short for 'Toshiba Link' as the standard we are using now for the optical connection is established and branded by Toshiba. Yeah, google.


 
  Now that was an interesting read. Kudos for the link.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> A second one? Wow!!! You must really like it!
> 
> Dont take this as a real answer but I will charge my devices with really most ports. Sure the faster and more power charge may degrade battery but I find that it's a small effect. IF it will fry the device? Don't know. But I do charges with my Airport Extreme and printer sometimes when I run out of holes.
> 
> You should come back to our regular discussion thread Unity


 

 LOL, I'm planning to give it as a gift, along with some AKG K518 or DJ1's.
  I haven't seen any shows lately.. still need to check out the first one on my list I added a long time ago.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> LOL, I'm planning to give it as a gift, along with some AKG K518 or DJ1's.
> I haven't seen any shows lately.. still need to check out the first one on my list I added a long time ago.


 

 Wow, those must be to a good friend or significant person in your life.
   
  Anyway I won't go into discussion mode on here.


----------



## Razor-BladE

I've been using my E17 for a few days now, and the battery life isn't that great. It only seems to last about 8 hours from full charge. What is everybody else getting?
   
  Also, has anyone had problems with BSODs? Sometimes my pc crashes when I plug the usb into the L7 dock. I'm guessing it's a driver issue but on the website it doesn't have a downloadable driver so anything I can do to try and fix this?


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]I am using D2K with E17 on 12db gain and 15 vol, USB mode (12db is not disabled), SQ is better for me than 0db gain on same vol.[/size]
   
  [size=11pt]Does 12db gain will cause any issues to D2K drivers in long run, because of high volts?[/size]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> I've been using my E17 for a few days now, and the battery life isn't that great. It only seems to last about 8 hours from full charge. What is everybody else getting?
> 
> Also, has anyone had problems with BSODs? Sometimes my pc crashes when I plug the usb into the L7 dock. I'm guessing it's a driver issue but on the website it doesn't have a downloadable driver so anything I can do to try and fix this?


 


  Go search "View all problem reports" in Win 7 start and open that. Also open up "Event Viewer" in Win 7 and look through that. That should tell you if the E17 caused it.
   
  For Vista go to "Problem Reports and Solutions"
   
  These take a bit to find(2 minutes) as you need all the keys to be right or what not.
   
  I get 10 hours..but then again I do drive these hard. Not a problem for me.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=medium]I am using D2K with E17 on 12db gain and 15 vol, USB mode (12db is not disabled), SQ is better for me than 0db gain on same vol.[/size]
> 
> [size=11pt]Does 12db gain will cause any issues to D2K drivers in long run, because of high volts?[/size]


 


  I am not a sound engineer or anything but if it doesn't blow your eardrums  then it's ok. If you don't need 12dB then don't use it, problems with clicking and a ch ch ch ch sound appears on higher Gains when your headphone's don't need it. If 0dB is fine then use 0dB, if 6dB is fine then use 6dB.


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]Thanks,[/size]
  [size=medium]I will try out with different gains…for now I am liking 12db gain on low vol[/size]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=medium]Thanks,[/size]
> [size=medium]I will try out with different gains…for now I am liking 12db gain on low vol[/size]


 


  If it "sounds" the best to you on that level(I think CLIEOS's tests showed that level had more bass punch) then you can keep it if you want. If you hear teh ch ch ch ch, then it means the gain is a bit too high....well it's not bad or detrimental but it does mean that you should lower it down a step in gain as it is annoying. If volume at 20(normal) on the 12dB is a bit too loud for your tastes then I wouldn't say 12dB is best as if you don't have memory volume enabled, or even if you do and the device has resetting or problems(none seen yet) the 20 volume may damage the headphone if it is  very loud...this is probably not a problem, but I am just putting in those small possibilities. 12dB or 6dB it's up to you. Enjoy


----------



## potatoos

Just got my E17 a few days ago. When listening to things via usb, there is obvious static. It isn't too bad, it is more like a staticy popping, and it isn't all the time, but it wasn't around before. Does anyone know what the problem could be? By the way, great review.
   
  *Edit* Resolved by using a different usb cable.


----------



## Razor-BladE

I can't find anything which says Fiio or E17 or anything like that, but I've never had any problems with bsods before the E17, and when it does crash it crashes straight away after plugging in. Hmmm.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> I can't find anything which says Fiio or E17 or anything like that, but I've never had any problems with bsods before the E17, and when it does crash it crashes straight away after plugging in. Hmmm.


 


  IT may be your southbridge which has control over USB. A Southbridge or chipset driver update may help(do this last and be sure to create a restore point). Look through. It will tell you the date of each crash so look for shutdowns. Look at what program it is reflecting. I did one a couple days ago, it say "Video Hardware Error" go with stuff like that.
   
   
  There we have it guys, remember if you are getting problems to try with different computers, heapdhone's, cable's, tracks, etc.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> I've been using my E17 for a few days now, and the battery life isn't that great. It only seems to last about 8 hours from full charge. What is everybody else getting?
> 
> Also, has anyone had problems with BSODs? Sometimes my pc crashes when I plug the usb into the L7 dock. I'm guessing it's a driver issue but on the website it doesn't have a downloadable driver so anything I can do to try and fix this?


 



 FiiO doesn't have a downloadable driver available since E17 uses (on Windows) generic Microsoft drivers that are USB Class 1 compliant. Only through S/PDIF can 24/192 be accomplished, and that bypasses driver requirements.
   
  What is the culprit file once a BSOD hits?


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> I can't find anything which says Fiio or E17 or anything like that, but I've never had any problems with bsods before the E17, and when it does crash it crashes straight away after plugging in. Hmmm.


 

 Mine shows the E17 as a S/PDIF Interface or something of the sort. Look for S/PDIF.


----------



## Pieface

More kool aid consumed. Should have my e17 in hand tomorrow.
   
  Looks like this should be a good step up from onboard sound for my work PC and laptop. Not sure how much use it will be on my clip +.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

bowei006 said:


> acenima said:
> 
> 
> > does the fiio e17 DAC bypass the ipod touch 4th gen DAC with the L9 cable?
> ...




Wow...so L9 won't bypass an ipod touch 3rd generation's dac? I'm assuming if it won't do it for the 4th generation it won't bypass it on the 3rd generation...I remember asking this but I think someone said it would bypass the dac...I'm kinda mad right now...So what can we do to bypass ipod touch 3RD gen's dac/amp if we're using E17?


----------



## nightgost

anyone with an HD25-13 ? (600ohm)
   
  Please share your experience pairing e17 with them do you have to go +12db?


----------



## M-13

LOD cables never bypass any DACs period. They bypass the amp. To bypass any ipod/itouch/iphone DAC you need to get something like CLAS or HP-P1.

  
  Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Wow...so L9 won't bypass an ipod touch 3rd generation's dac? I'm assuming if it won't do it for the 4th generation it won't bypass it on the 3rd generation...I remember asking this but I think someone said it would bypass the dac...I'm kinda mad right now...So what can we do to bypass ipod touch 3RD gen's dac/amp if we're using E17?


----------



## bowei006

^There are some cheaper ways oter than CLAS and HPP1 but are tird to the desktop. HRT has one also. But at that point.... Why pay $200+ at home to use your ipods DAC when You can use a good one? So for me, desktop units that just bypass the DAC are usless without any good features


----------



## MattTCG

Would the e17 drive the he400 or would you need the e9 as well?  And how does the e17 sound with d2k?
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## Darkblade48

I find that with the E17, the D2K bass becomes tighter, and the mids are brought forward a bit. The sparkling treble is also brought down a bit.
  
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Would the e17 drive the he400 or would you need the e9 as well?  And how does the e17 sound with d2k?
> 
> 
> thanks...


----------



## MattTCG

Oh, the perfect then. Now I'm really tempted!!
  
  Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> I find that with the E17, the D2K bass becomes tighter, and the mids are brought forward a bit. The sparkling treble is also brought down a bit.


----------



## UnityIsPower

So what type of metal is the E17 made of?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> So what type of metal is the E17 made of?


 


   
   
  Quote: CLIEOS from post #2207 http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/2205#post_8236783


> 1. It is as easy to scratch as any *anodized aluminum* housing, which isn't scratch proof.


----------



## M-13

Adamantium
 ﻿
  Quote: 





unityispower said:


> So what type of metal is the E17 made of?


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Adamantium


 
  Everyone's speakers/earphones would stick to it.


----------



## gohanssjn

I do have some minimal scratching on mine where the headphones plug in.  But in time it will just be a full circle and look like it was made that way!


----------



## kalbee

Just call it a battle scar and it shouldn't bother you too much anymore!


----------



## Pieface

On the charger now...let's see if my impulse control holds up for the battery to get a full charge


----------



## visanj

I got to know from my home that E17 has arrived but I'm in Office now
   
  Can't wait to go home but work is killing me....


----------



## MattTCG

Post back and let us know what you think.
   
  thanks...


----------



## visanj

I just now opened the package and listening through my PC via USB with Brainwavz M2
   
  When I compare this to Clip+ E17 is quiet brighter which I feel induce fatigue during long listening session which I don't feel with Clip+
   
  When compared to Clip+, Bass is punchier, more detailed but I feel I'm missing some "musical" quality which I don't miss in Clip+ 
   
  Is burn-in required to tame the treble?
   
  Could anyone please confirm?
   
  Overall people who like balanced sound throughout the spectrum will like this


----------



## bowei006

Brightness is said to decrease over time . EQ is also an option.
Listen to it for at least a week. Get used to the more audiophile accurate sound and then go to clip direct out. Then make descision on keep or not.

While you are listening ,this is a great article to read up on.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/564465/misconception-of-neutral-accurate


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Brightness is said to decrease over time . EQ is also an option.
> Listen to it for at least a week. Get used to the more audiophile accurate sound and then go to clip direct out. Then make descision on keep or not.
> While you are listening ,this is a great article to read up on.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/564465/misconception-of-neutral-accurate


 
   
   
  Thanks for your inputs. If brightness decrease over time then this will be my favourite source as I can feel that this is more airy in treble than Clip+


----------



## bowei006

I didnt write down or make mental notes of iniial improvements but all over this thread, decreasing of brightness have been known to happen from others. You can try to adjust an lower treble EQ, treble does have a bit effect on overal brightness, but again the two are different things an artificially modyfiying the treble is only a half butted way of doing it


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I didnt write down or make mental notes of iniial improvements but all over this thread, decreasing of brightness have been known to happen from others. You can try to adjust an lower treble EQ, treble does have a bit effect on overal brightness, but again the two are different things an artificially modyfiying the treble is only a half butted way of doing it


 
   
   
   
   I tried to reduce treble EQ but I feel as if its ruining the whole strength


----------



## UnityIsPower

Ah, thanks for the info and link. I used my E17 with the 360 today as I got it back and purchased an LED projector. Didn't keep track of time but when I finished gaming, the battery indicator had zero bars, LOL. Is it safe for me to charge/keep it charged with the 360 wile using the optical cable input option?


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I tried to reduce treble EQ but I feel as if its ruining the whole strength


 
   
  I usually lower the treble to 2 and increase the bass to 2, with DJ1/HFi580's.


----------



## Necrontyr

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Ah, thanks for the info and link. I used my E17 with the 360 today as I got it back and purchased an LED projector. Didn't keep track of time but when I finished gaming, the battery indicator had zero bars, LOL. Is it safe for me to charge/keep it charged with the 360 wile using the optical cable input option?


 
   
  Totally safe, I use the optical with my desktop while charging it off my mac , so having it plugged in via all 3 ports is totally fine, and if you were using something besides the Xbox 360 as the usb power supplier like a laptop or something then you could also toggle to using it without interrupting the charging. 
   
  TLR totally safe


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





necrontyr said:


> Totally safe, I use the optical with my desktop while charging it off my mac , so having it plugged in via all 3 ports is totally fine, and if you were using something besides the Xbox 360 as the usb power supplier like a laptop or something then you could also toggle to using it without interrupting the charging.
> 
> TLR totally safe


 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## UnityIsPower

My iPhone 3G no longer recognizes when the LOD cable is plugged in? The sound plays through the speakers even when plugged in, I already restored the phone.
  Edit: It now works lol?


----------



## bowei006

Sometimes a restatrt of the phone is required. Ive also had the pins of the LOD not make contact with the connectors on the Dock connector before.


----------



## skfktkwjs

wow i gatta get them!


----------



## duyu

Did anyone know how to fix the Gain at zero?
  After using the E17 independently, I found that the gain always reset automatically at 6.


----------



## Zen21

Just received my E17 today

 Just wondering when I use E17 with Foobar using WSAPI SPDIF Interface

 i've changed the settings to 96k 24bit in the fiio properties already  but when I play with Foobar it shows up as 48k 16bit on my Fiio screen. 

 does this mean i'm not getting the best sound I can?



 sorry just a bit confused lol


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Did anyone know how to fix the Gain at zero?
> After using the E17 independently, I found that the gain always reset automatically at 6.


 
   
  That should only happen if you plug it into the E9 or connect something into the dock on the bottom.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zen21 said:


> Just received my E17 today
> 
> Just wondering when I use E17 with Foobar using WSAPI SPDIF Interface
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well....unless your tracks are over 44.1KHz @ 16bit then technically...
   
  ok to do it while in foobar hit "Ctrl+P" go to "playback" and then the little drop down menu in playback go to "DSP Manager" change the output format to 24bit. Next go to advanced. In Decoding, drop it down and change "Tone/sweep sample rate" to 96000(exactly what I typed). If your computer ever is able to do 192KHz then change that too 
   
  Plz note there is a bug. If your higher quality songs are not able to play and say "Unrecoverable playback error:Not enough storage is availble to complete this operation" then you have to change the DSP manager output setting to 16bit. This is a bug that has yet to be adressed.


----------



## Zen21

Thanks for the quick Reply. I did as you said and It still says the same. When I use any other media player it shows as 24bit 96k.

 My setting for the E17 is 2 channels, 24 bit, 96000 studio quality. If i switch to DS E17 Plug In instead of WASAPI it shows as 96k 24bit. 
 I've been playing FLAC files but to be honest I don't here any difference  in sound quality anyway lol. Thanks for your help 

  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Well....unless your tracks are over 44.1KHz @ 16bit then technically...
> 
> ok to do it while in foobar hit "Ctrl+P" go to "playback" and then the little drop down menu in playback go to "DSP Manager" change the output format to 24bit. Next go to advanced. In Decoding, drop it down and change "Tone/sweep sample rate" to 96000(exactly what I typed). If your computer ever is able to do 192KHz then change that too
> 
> Plz note there is a bug. If your higher quality songs are not able to play and say "Unrecoverable playback error:Not enough storage is availble to complete this operation" then you have to change the DSP manager output setting to 16bit. This is a bug that has yet to be adressed.


----------



## GrumbleFish

I don't know if this has already been discussed here, but what's the deal with the E17 pricing on amazon? The micca option is selling at 149.99 with 5 bucks for shipping versus 139.99 with free shipping from the MiccaStore website.
   
  Anyone know what's going on there?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zen21 said:


> Thanks for the quick Reply. I did as you said and It still says the same. When I use any other media player it shows as 24bit 96k.
> 
> My setting for the E17 is 2 channels, 24 bit, 96000 studio quality. If i switch to DS E17 Plug In instead of WASAPI it shows as 96k 24bit.
> I've been playing FLAC files but to be honest I don't here any difference  in sound quality anyway lol. Thanks for your help


 
   
  I've had computer restarts fix that...IT may not work for you,but it would just out of the blue switch. So you with the E17 using S/PDIF and WASAPI through S/PDIF changed the settings like I said and still no? If when you come back to it tomorrow after a computer restart and it's still not changed then sorry.
   
  The change in that is for people with higher quality songs that want to "technically" hear it in all its glory.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> I don't know if this has already been discussed here, but what's the deal with the E17 pricing on amazon? The micca option is selling at 149.99 with 5 bucks for shipping versus 139.99 with free shipping from the MiccaStore website.
> 
> Anyone know what's going on there?


 
   
  That is probably a premium you are paying for Amazon. There are customers that like to return stuff and you have to pay Amazon and what not to put it up and a lot more stuff. Bascically they just introduced a middleman...and want to make money.


----------



## Zen21

Yeah still a no. Whenever I switch to play a video on Youtube or something it will change back to 96k 32bit. I'll just try the restart thing a few times. Again thanks for the help
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I've had computer restarts fix that...IT may not work for you,but it would just out of the blue switch. So you with the E17 using S/PDIF and WASAPI through S/PDIF changed the settings like I said and still no? If when you come back to it tomorrow after a computer restart and it's still not changed then sorry.
> 
> The change in that is for people with higher quality songs that want to "technically" hear it in all its glory.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zen21 said:


> Yeah still a no. Whenever I switch to play a video on Youtube or something it will change back to 96k 32bit. I'll just try the restart thing a few times. Again thanks for the help


 
   
  32bit...the highest the e17 supports or will display is 24bit.
   
  Maybe WASAPI is having trouble. Remember to restart(close and open) foobar after every setting change.
   
   
  Just wrote a review on Amazon. Many new headphone people don't know about site's like these so a quick write up will help. I included short stuff consumers need to know, an short audiophile actual sound section and a Tips section to get started on frequent questions.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





grumblefish said:


> I don't know if this has already been discussed here, but what's the deal with the E17 pricing on amazon? The micca option is selling at 149.99 with 5 bucks for shipping versus 139.99 with free shipping from the MiccaStore website.
> 
> Anyone know what's going on there?


 
   
  Standard price gouging that happens when a new product is insanely popular. As more E17s ship and stock fills up at all U.S. Fiio dealers prices will fall.


----------



## Pieface

Initial impressions...through yamaha eph100
   
  Noticable improvement from onboard sound. Bass is a lot tighter, clarity and detail are improved. Compared to the onboard sound the music seems to have less warmth but I'm thinking it's just an effect of the sound being less muddled together. Bass impact seems to be lessened but a +2dB EQ adjustment brought it back to a good level for me on hiphop and electronic tracks. Mids were tight and vocals were quite forward, The mids seem to be the more dominant range so far. Treble seemed more detailed but I wasn't fatigued, the presentation was still quite laid back. Not sure if that was more the earphones or the E17's presentation at this stage.
   
  Soundstage width is increased but I would say the depth seems to be slightly less. Instrument seperation seems about the same although the extra soundstage width can sometimes seem to increase this with certain tracks. I kept looking out the window to my left on a NiN track that had something like footsteps set way out in the left of the soundstage which was pretty cool.
  
  I found with the Yamaha's there was a very, very faint hiss. The background isn't completely silent but I really had to hunt for it. It didn't impact listening to music at all. This didn't seem to alter regardless of the gain or volume setting so maybe it was noise from something else? I had a play with the gain settings 0dB has plenty to drive these IEM's. Volume was plenty adequate for me in the low 20's. 6dB Gain I was listening at 16-18. The 6db gain seemed warmer and more pleasant to my ear but that might be a volume matching issue rather than anything particularly substantive.
   
  I need to spend a lot more time listening to it and trying some different phones etc but as an entry level DAC/Amp I haven't found anything glaring that would make me want to send it back so far.


----------



## Mutombo

Has anybody had problems getting 96k / 24bit output from a Mac?  I have a new generation Macbook Air, and when I go to "audio midi setup" to change to 96/24 I lose all sound.  I have to unplug the dac and reset the settings back to 48/16 to get any sound.  Thoughts?
   
  96k / 24bit works fine on my other (Windows) laptop, so I know the e17 isn't faulty.


----------



## MickeyVee

No problem on my 2009 MacMini. Just purchased Hotel California & Rumours 96/24 from HDTracks.  Because iTunes doesn't do Flac, I used XLD to convert it to Apple Lossless and they play quite nicely. 
  Also used Decibel to play.  Nice thing about Decibel is that it plays at native resolution.  If source is 24/96, I see 96K 24bit on the E17, if I play 16/44.1, I see 48K 16Bit on the FiiO (known quirk)
   
  Just did the same test on my 2011 MacBook Air iTunes and Decibel) .. exactly the same results, no problems at all.
  Could it be your cable?? Just guessing.
   
  Quote: 





mutombo said:


> Has anybody had problems getting 96k / 24bit output from a Mac?  I have a new generation Macbook Air, and when I go to "audio midi setup" to change to 96/24 I lose all sound.  I have to unplug the dac and reset the settings back to 48/16 to get any sound.  Thoughts?
> 
> 96k / 24bit works fine on my other (Windows) laptop, so I know the e17 isn't faulty.


----------



## bowei006

Ill try it with my Mac tmmrw.

Its not a bug and quirk wouldnt be the way to describe it. 44.1 and 48KHz along with 96KHz and its "leSer buddy" 88.2KHz if I remember correctly. Its just displayed that way.


----------



## Mutombo

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> No problem on my 2009 MacMini. Just purchased Hotel California & Rumours 96/24 from HDTracks.  Because iTunes doesn't do Flac, I used XLD to convert it to Apple Lossless and they play quite nicely.
> Also used Decibel to play.  Nice thing about Decibel is that it plays at native resolution.  If source is 24/96, I see 96K 24bit on the E17, if I play 16/44.1, I see 48K 16Bit on the FiiO (known quirk)
> 
> Just did the same test on my 2011 MacBook Air iTunes and Decibel) .. exactly the same results, no problems at all.
> Could it be your cable?? Just guessing.


 
   
  I used the same cable on my other computer, but I'll try another one just to see.


----------



## Pieface

Probably a dumb question...
   
  I can't select the e17 as a wasapi device with foobar 2000. I can only choose it as a direct sound option. I can see the wasapi output support under the foobar components though.
   
  Any ideas?


----------



## hyogen

just wanted to throw this out there and recant what i've said a couple times before in this thread even. 
   
  the well amped TF10 do NOT sound exactly like my dt880 250 -_-  I noticed much better detail in the highs today...dunno what I was thinking before...but I still find them very similar and suited to my taste


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> just wanted to throw this out there and recant what i've said a couple times before in this thread even.
> 
> the well amped TF10 do NOT sound exactly like my dt880 250 -_-  I noticed much better detail in the highs today...dunno what I was thinking before...but I still find them very similar and suited to my taste


 
   
  How about a well amped DT880 250?


----------



## hyogen

mradrian said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I feel DT880 soundstage is already good as it is. It's the tf10 which sounds more like the dt880...but with a little less detail In the highs. Overall I like the dt880 better but both phones suit my needs and wants


----------



## Razor-BladE

I have a quick question regarding the FiiO E17 and Xonar DX. As the FiiO E17 can only decode 2 channels, would it make no difference, when gaming, to have the audio channels set to 6/8 hence making Dolby Headphone useless?


----------



## acenima

received my fiio e17 and l9 a hour ago, will test out and put input here


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> I have a quick question regarding the FiiO E17 and Xonar DX. As the FiiO E17 can only decode 2 channels, would it make no difference, when gaming, to have the audio channels set to 6/8 hence making Dolby Headphone useless?


 
   
  IT is useless having a computer set to more than 2. I don't get the last part. You can add a dolby effect if you want to.


----------



## Stonez

My order for my E17 went in to MP4 nation on 03/31, mailed out on 4/10, dispatched overseas to Miami, Fl. 4/16.
   
  I live in North Metro Atlanta.  Does anyone have any idea how much longer I should be waiting for my gear to arrive as I'm getting a little frustrated...?


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





stonez said:


> My order for my E17 went in to MP4 nation on 03/31, mailed out on 4/10, dispatched overseas to Miami, Fl. 4/16.
> 
> I live in North Metro Atlanta.  Does anyone have any idea how much longer I should be waiting for my gear to arrive as I'm getting a little frustrated...?


 
   

 no idea, give it a couple more days. I ordered from miccastore and it went from Virginia to California in 4 days.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





stonez said:


> My order for my E17 went in to MP4 nation on 03/31, mailed out on 4/10, dispatched overseas to Miami, Fl. 4/16.
> 
> I live in North Metro Atlanta.  Does anyone have any idea how much longer I should be waiting for my gear to arrive as I'm getting a little frustrated...?


 
   
  That sounds like pure torture.


----------



## acenima

ok the power on this thing is so amazing  +2 bass on the fiio e17 plus max bass settings on itunes is making my DJ1's vibrate so much haha. without the fiio e17 the bass was alot less poewerfulfl xD awesome


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





acenima said:


> ok the power on this thing is so amazing  +2 bass on the fiio e17 plus max bass settings on itunes is making my DJ1's vibrate so much haha. without the fiio e17 the bass was alot less poewerfulfl xD awesome


 
   
  Haha. Sad part is on modern hip hop songs. A +4 - +6 distorts so hard on those headphones. +2 and +4 is the most you can do with the DJ1/HFI 580's.


----------



## Stonez

Quote: 





acenima said:


> no idea, give it a couple more days. I ordered from miccastore and it went from Virginia to California in 4 days.


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> That sounds like pure torture.


 
   
  Yeah, but I get a free pair of Brainwavz Beta's....   
   
  [size=medium]ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)​[/size]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stonez said:


> *Yeah, but I get a free pair of Brainwavz Beta's....   *
> 
> [size=medium]ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)​[/size]


 
  That almost got me to buy from MP4Nation.... looking at things now... Not worth it, Plus I got an PL11 for $10. I have a review of the PL11's if you want to know more about it. In my signature.
   
   
  Quote: 





pieface said:


> Probably a dumb question...
> 
> I can't select the e17 as a wasapi device with foobar 2000. I can only choose it as a direct sound option. I can see the wasapi output support under the foobar components though.
> 
> Any ideas?


 
   
  Is the "Wasapit output support" bolded and not grayed out like the rest? What version is it? What module is it? Mine is Version 2.1 with module "foo_out_wasapi" if it doesn't work, delete it from the dll folder. Instal it with the components instal tool or manually add it into the dll of the main folder and restart


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





acenima said:


> ok the power on this thing is so amazing  +2 bass on the fiio e17 plus max bass settings on itunes is making my DJ1's vibrate so much haha. without the fiio e17 the bass was alot less poewerfulfl xD awesome


 
   
  I was going to send you the impressions but read you already purchased it. And yes... bass is very wub wub, even improved when just using the amp with my iPhone  enjoy. DJ1's are kicking...


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Haha. Sad part is on modern hip hop songs. A +4 - +6 distorts so hard on those headphones. +2 and +4 is the most you can do with the DJ1/HFI 580's.


 
   
  I have some songs where the full +10 can be used with wonderful results 
   
  Edit: Song is Crave You(Adventure Club Dubstep Remix)- Single, Flight Facilities


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> I was going to send you the impressions but read you already purchased it. And yes... bass is very wub wub, even improved when just using the amp with my iPhone  enjoy. DJ1's are kicking...


 
   
  thanks  Im still up to reading your impressions


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





stonez said:


> My order for my E17 went in to MP4 nation on 03/31, mailed out on 4/10, dispatched overseas to Miami, Fl. 4/16.
> 
> I live in North Metro Atlanta.  Does anyone have any idea how much longer I should be waiting for my gear to arrive as I'm getting a little frustrated...?


 
   

 I live in California, and i often purchase things shipped from China. Average wait time is around 20 days give or take.


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That almost got me to buy from MP4Nation.... looking at things now... Not worth it, Plus I got an PL11 for $10. I have a review of the PL11's if you want to know more about it. In my signature.


 
   
  I had a good experience. The Alpen arrived in exactly 14 days through snail mail. I had a buyer for the brainwavz which would have brought my purchase down to technically $109.5, but i liked them so much i decided to keep them since they are better than iphone earbuds. =D


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





acenima said:


> thanks  Im still up to reading your impressions


 
   
  Being you already own it, in short: Amp Only= Ability to bring out vocals and/or bass is higher then iPhone alone. AMP+DAC= What I said earlier + sound depth/clarity increases(Compared to onboard audio). Can't tell a difference in sound quality between AMP+DAC on PC vs AMP+iPhone. It seems the iPhone does a good job DAC side but I love the ability of adding the bass . I still can't feel the depth and tone from playing my guitar or hearing a singer in person.. but that might be the recording quality or needs to throw more money at it?  Either way.. I'm *happy with the improvement. *With my limited equipment experience... ignorance is bliss.


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Being you already own it, in short: Amp Only= Ability to bring out vocals and/or bass is higher then iPhone alone. AMP+DAC= What I said earlier + sound depth/clarity increases(Compared to onboard audio). Can't tell a difference in sound quality between AMP+DAC on PC vs AMP+iPhone. It seems the iPhone does a good job DAC side but I love the ability of adding the bass . I still can't feel the depth and tone from playing my guitar or hearing a singer in person.. but that might be the recording quality or needs to throw more money at it?  Either way.. I'm *happy with the improvement. *With my limited equipment experience... ignorance is bliss.


 
   
  I agree with your last sentence, I have limited equipment and audio experience as well. My Audio Technica ATH-M50 was an upgrade from a 5 dollar pair of used skull candies i bought at the swap meet, and i have read reviews by some people saying the M50's and the Alpen sucks but, to me, they sound amazing. Maybe because, my ear have not been spoiled by expensive equipment yet. However, this sunday Audeze is hosting a meet in L.A, so i am going to finally be able to hear some true audiophile equipment such as the LCD-3 !


----------



## musicinmymind

Lucky you enjoy,
   
  wish that hosted meet was in DC


----------



## Razor-BladE

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> IT is useless having a computer set to more than 2. I don't get the last part. You can add a dolby effect if you want to.


 
   

 Because I've read when using DH it's recommended to put the audio channels to 6/8 and then in-game set the audio output to 5.1/7.1.


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Being you already own it, in short: Amp Only= Ability to bring out vocals and/or bass is higher then iPhone alone. AMP+DAC= What I said earlier + sound depth/clarity increases(Compared to onboard audio). Can't tell a difference in sound quality between AMP+DAC on PC vs AMP+iPhone. It seems the iPhone does a good job DAC side but I love the ability of adding the bass . I still can't feel the depth and tone from playing my guitar or hearing a singer in person.. but that might be the recording quality or needs to throw more money at it?  Either way.. I'm *happy with the improvement. *With my limited equipment experience... ignorance is bliss.


 
   

 thanks for the information, thats what it feels like to me. Haven't done alot of testing. Right now I have the fiio connected to pc through usb, not sure if I should connected it with 3.5's to my xonar dg's.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





bleether said:


> I agree with your last sentence, I have limited equipment and audio experience as well. My Audio Technica ATH-M50 was an upgrade from a 5 dollar pair of used skull candies i bought at the swap meet, and i have read reviews by some people saying the M50's and the Alpen sucks but, to me, they sound amazing. Maybe because, my ear have not been spoiled by expensive equipment yet. However, this sunday Audeze is hosting a meet in L.A, so i am going to finally be able to hear some true audiophile equipment such as the LCD-3 !


 
   
  Phantom: This is the point of no return..~~


----------



## hyogen

As much as I love the e17, I just wanna say that I think Samsung nexus s (galaxy s) + voodoo drives my dt880 as well as the e17. Of course the e17 has much better bad boost....It is single handedly making me into more of a bass head since it does a fantastic job of JUST boosting the lows... FYI the other galaxy s phones have a weaker amp than nexus s. 

However I truly think the nexus s + voodoo gives tf19 better soundstage than the e17. Jaw dropping soundstage 

Its a shame because it only has 16gb nonexpandable memory. 




For those who have had cowon j3..... Since it doesn't have line out....... How would that compare to a iPod 5.5 gen with and without LOD? Also with the E17...is having all those bbe sound enhancements on the cowon a waste since itd probably be better to keep on flat with e17?

Really trying to decide if I should keep the iPod or not since I miss touch controls,...in fact if I got the j3 I would maybe miss larger 4" screen and wifi of a galaxy s. In glad to know that the j3 at least has search with keyboard functionality...someone I really miss with the iPod.


----------



## Pieface

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ...
> Is the "Wasapit output support" bolded and not grayed out like the rest? What version is it? What module is it? Mine is Version 2.1 with module "foo_out_wasapi" if it doesn't work, delete it from the dll folder. Instal it with the components instal tool or manually add it into the dll of the main folder and restart


 
   
  It's grayed out version 2.1 as per your explanation.
   
  Component's install tool?
   
  Thanks for trying to help  I'll have aplay on Monday.


----------



## bowei006

Graye out means its not fully activated. You can either instal a componentthrough the instal tool on the page you are on with the grayed out wasapi or you can manually drip the .dlls into the foobar components folder


----------



## Pieface

Thanks man  I'll have a crack when I get into work Monday.


----------



## ertai

does anyone know how E17 compared to iBasso D4 Mamba (in terms of DAC)?


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





ertai said:


> does anyone know how E17 compared to iBasso D4 Mamba (in terms of DAC)?


 
   
  Do you play mtg ?


----------



## johangrb

Just received mine. $139 from J&R (free shipping) is a bargain (via Amazon)!.
   
  Works perfectly @ 92/24 from my Macbook Pro optical or USB. (Gain = 0 is good).
   
  Very happy with how it works/sounds with my IE80's.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





johangrb said:


> Just received mine. $139 from J&R (free shipping) is a bargain (via Amazon)!.
> 
> Works perfectly @ 92/24 from my Macbook Pro optical or USB. (Gain = 0 is good).
> 
> Very happy with how it works/sounds with my IE80's.


 
   

 Nice! I ordered mine from the same. Should be here Mon.


----------



## Joelby

Have had my E17 for about a week and am really enjoying it. It's such a versatile little unit packed with features. Fiio has come a long way and continues to raise the bar on quality with each of their new products. Love the treble and bass eq. Just what I needed when the black metal gets too bright and grating or the electro needs a little more junk in the trunk.
   
  The bonus Brainwavz are a nice touch from mp4nation. I can tell you they are a major improvement (sq wise) over the older version. Although kind of a clunky design.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bleether said:


> I agree with your last sentence, I have limited equipment and audio experience as well. My Audio Technica ATH-M50 was an upgrade from a 5 dollar pair of used skull candies i bought at the swap meet, and i have read reviews by some people saying the M50's and the Alpen sucks but, to me, they sound amazing. Maybe because, my ear have not been spoiled by expensive equipment yet. However, this sunday Audeze is hosting a meet in L.A, so i am going to finally be able to hear some true audiophile equipment such as the LCD-3 !


 
   
  Let me know if you can hear the quality you would if it were in person... a good quality acoustic guitar sounds amazing compared to any guitar piece in my music collection, even at 96K\24bit.


----------



## metaldood

I have cowon c2 and ath m50. Wll buying the e17 improve sound?


----------



## PhrozenLife

I'm having so much fun fooling around with the bass eq on the e17
  Disco electrique by chocolate puma has been making my head bouncing back and forth!


----------



## acenima

Can someone explain what the gain setting is for? Also which is best gain to use with the DJ1's. I have it on the default which is 6.


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





acenima said:


> Can someone explain what the gain setting is for? Also which is best gain to use with the DJ1's. I have it on the default which is 6.


 
   

 Simply put, gain just increases the amplitude of the wave that is generated, thus increasing the volume. You may encounter some distortion at higher gain, so use whatever gain has the least.


----------



## Pieface

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Graye out means its not fully activated. You can either instal a componentthrough the instal tool on the page you are on with the grayed out wasapi or you can manually drip the .dlls into the foobar components folder


 
   

 Ugh...apparently Win XP doesn't support WASAPI. I installed the kernel streaming .dll that was recommended and that seems to have done the trick. I can select the fiio as a kernal streaming USB device now...even though the component shows as grayed out Noob ftw!
   
  So far I  definitely prefer the E17 on 6dB gain. It feels a lot more musical and fun than 0dB gain to my ear. The tone is definitely warmed up some. 0dB gain seems like it would be the one to go for with audio books and podcasts as it is very clear and a bit dry for me so far - maybe my ear just hasn't "matured" enough yet to appreciate that style of delivery hahaha!
   
  Very happy with my purchase so far. I think as an entry level device Fiio have kicked a goal here. It just seems perfect for someone like me who is putting their toe into the water. Lots of different options to play with.


----------



## wilky61

I did some experimenting with the gain setting yesterday and also with a decibel-meter... decided that I really shouldn't be turning the volume that much higher than 80-85 dB if I value the longevity of my ears... and so I have decided to drop all the way down to the 0 gain setting with my AKG Q701s... I usually have the volume somewhere between 35-50 depending on the song, but I typically increase the volume during the quiet sections of songs and decrease the volume during the loud sections of songs...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> I did some experimenting with the gain setting yesterday and also with a decibel-meter... decided that I really shouldn't be turning the volume that much higher than 80-85 dB if I value the longevity of my ears... and so I have decided to drop all the way down to the 0 gain setting with my AKG Q701s... I usually have the volume somewhere between 35-50 depending on the song, but I typically increase the volume during the quiet sections of songs and decrease the volume during the loud sections of songs...


 
  Impossible(not impossible..but you know). I can't run my Q701's on 0 gain..well I can but I need my music to be at normal volume. 31 on 12dB is about right. 20-30 is where I usually stay on 12dB
   
   
  Quote: 





pieface said:


> Ugh...apparently Win XP doesn't support WASAPI. I installed the kernel streaming .dll that was recommended and that seems to have done the trick. I can select the fiio as a kernal streaming USB device now...even though the component shows as grayed out Noob ftw!
> 
> So far I  definitely prefer the E17 on 6dB gain. It feels a lot more musical and fun than 0dB gain to my ear. The tone is definitely warmed up some. 0dB gain seems like it would be the one to go for with audio books and podcasts as it is very clear and a bit dry for me so far - maybe my ear just hasn't "matured" enough yet to appreciate that style of delivery hahaha!
> 
> Very happy with my purchase so far. I think as an entry level device Fiio have kicked a goal here. It just seems perfect for someone like me who is putting their toe into the water. Lots of different options to play with.


 
   
  Sad to hear that. Every gain increase also has some slight increases in tone I think. I haven't done enough testing to see if that is true or just placebo true(increase in volume=good) but Clieos has proved or said that 12dB has more bass responce than 6dB.
   
  Entry Level wouldn't be the term for the E17. It's really hard to put a tier on amp/dac's as unlike headphones they increase indefinateley. If you go by the headphone tier(genreal) that these are used with, anything from upper mid end(so high mid end) to below is what these are suited for. It seems the HD600/650's don't do well from what I hear from others but the Q701's are fine with the E17


----------



## acenima

Yea, I use 6 db gain and my volume on 40-50 is good for me on my DJ1's. I like the power on the 6 gain otherwise i would do 0.


----------



## wilky61

Hi bowei, I am wondering why your experience with the E17/Q701 combination is so different than mine.
   
  I use Foobar2000 with its volume control set to max (-0.00 dB). For the Windows volume control on the taskbar, it says "SPDIF Interface (USB): 100%" so it is also maxed. Then, as I said, I have no problems powering the Q701s to a rather loud level at the lowest gain setting on the E17.
   
  FWIW, I also have Foobar2000's EQ set to +4 dB for the bass end of the spectrum (<500 Hz or so) as well as +4 bass/+2 treble on the E17 itself.
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Impossible(not impossible..but you know). I can't run my Q701's on 0 gain..well I can but I need my music to be at normal volume. 31 on 12dB is about right. 20-30 is where I usually stay on 12dB


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Hi bowei, I am wondering why your experience with the E17/Q701 combination is so different than mine.
> 
> I use Foobar2000 with its volume control set to max (-0.00 dB). For the Windows volume control on the taskbar, it says "SPDIF Interface (USB): 100%" so it is also maxed. Then, as I said, I have no problems powering the Q701s to a rather loud level at the lowest gain setting on the E17.
> 
> FWIW, I also have Foobar2000's EQ set to +4 dB for the bass end of the spectrum (<500 Hz or so) as well as +4 bass/+2 treble on the E17 itself.


 
   
  I have the same settings other than EQ. I have no EQ on foobar and no EQ on my E17. Bashead  I am one as well in my sparetime when I listen to my average stuff but my HFI 580's and XB500's sate me 
   
  Music could also have an effect, but mine are just normal modern music :/


----------



## wilky61

Haha, I really don't consider myself a basshead (after all, that's why I opted for the Q701 right?), but yeah I just needed a little bit more "oomph" out of the low end. I tried zero'ing Foobar's EQ and bumping the E17's bass boost up to like 8 dB, for example, but it didn't sound as good to my ears as the combination I described above in my previous post. 
   
  I've been mostly listening to things like Frank Zappa, John Coltrane, Jimi Hendrix, Traffic, Funkadelic, Cake, Modest Mouse, etc.
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I have the same settings other than EQ. I have no EQ on foobar and no EQ on my E17. Bashead  I am one as well in my sparetime when I listen to my average stuff but my HFI 580's and XB500's sate me
> 
> Music could also have an effect, but mine are just normal modern music :/


----------



## Pieface

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Sad to hear that. Every gain increase also has some slight increases in tone I think. I haven't done enough testing to see if that is true or just placebo true(increase in volume=good) but Clieos has proved or said that 12dB has more bass responce than 6dB.
> Entry Level wouldn't be the term for the E17. It's really hard to put a tier on amp/dac's as unlike headphones they increase indefinateley. If you go by the headphone tier(genreal) that these are used with, anything from upper mid end(so high mid end) to below is what these are suited for. It seems the HD600/650's don't do well from what I hear from others but the Q701's are fine with the E17


 
   
  Yeah I'm not sure if it is a volume related improvement. I did try listening to the 0dB at a higher volume level and the 6dB at lower volume and still much preferred the 6dB. It may be my brain tricking me but I don't really care if it is.
   
  Entry level was maybe the wrong term as that seems to bring $$ and quality connotations...
   
  The E17 covers off the main things a newbie wants to find out about
   
  1) Is a DAC better than my onboard sound? - check
  2) Can I see if a headphone amp makes a difference to my cans or portable setup ?- check
  3) Does higher bitrate music sound any better? - check
   
  It all comes in a pretty good looking, portable device that is reasonably priced. It is a good product for someone wanting to explore a little further. I dunno maybe that makes more sense...or not hahaha!


----------



## wilky61

Yep, just tried to compare the 0gain/6gain settings again... and I really do prefer the 0gain setting with my Q701s. Even after adjusting for the difference in volume between the two gain settings with the E17's volume controls, 6gain just seems to fatigue my ears more... it's as though each musical note causes more pressure on my eardrums (in an unpleasant sort of way).
   
  Sticking with what's working for me.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Hi bowei, I am wondering why your experience with the E17/Q701 combination is so different than mine.
> 
> I use Foobar2000 with its volume control set to max (-0.00 dB). For the Windows volume control on the taskbar, it says "SPDIF Interface (USB): 100%" so it is also maxed. Then, as I said, I have no problems powering the Q701s to a rather loud level at the lowest gain setting on the E17.
> 
> FWIW, I also have Foobar2000's EQ set to +4 dB for the bass end of the spectrum (<500 Hz or so) as well as +4 bass/+2 treble on the E17 itself.


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I have the same settings other than EQ. I have no EQ on foobar and no EQ on my E17. Bashead  I am one as well in my sparetime when I listen to my average stuff but my HFI 580's and XB500's sate me
> 
> Music could also have an effect, but mine are just normal modern music :/


 
   

 Would it be replay gain?


----------



## wilky61

Not sure exactly what you mean/how to configure replay gain in Foobar, mrAdrian. Can you please elaborate?
  I have never specifically messed around with replay gain, though...
   
  Quote: 





mradrian said:


> Would it be replay gain?


----------



## mrAdrian

If you have used replay gain on your songs, they will be scaled to roughly the same volume (without comprising with dynamics, just changing the gain of the song - but I am no expert of the theories behind it). In practise, your songs normally get scaled down to a specific reference volume. If one of you have used replay gain on your music library/specific songs, those songs would sound noticably quieter than as on another foobar->E17 setup.
   
  Basically like, one of you might've applied replay gain, and resulted in a lower volume than the other person.


----------



## UnityIsPower

You guys are crazy, I usually listen to music at 20-26. I think you have all already ruined your hearing LOL. As for gain, I thought it just added extra volume to the already present 60, allowing you to go to a max of 72. For example, to me, 26 on 0 gain sounds the exact same as 20 on 6 gain.


----------



## metaldood

metaldood said:


> I have cowon c2 and ath m50. Wll buying the e17 improve sound?




Putting this forward again


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> You guys are crazy, I usually listen to music at 20-26. I think you have all already ruined your hearing LOL. As for gain, I thought it just added extra volume to the already present 60, allowing you to go to a max of 72. For example, to me, 26 on 0 gain sounds the exact same as 20 on 6 gain.


 
   
  Hmm, I thought the gain just gave the device more juice but i dont know


----------



## Dixter

As to Volume...  just remember that the E17 is just amping the USB signal coming from your computer...  so if you have your computer volume and player volume maxed out...  you are most likely also amping the noise coming out of that port....   best to lower the computer volume/player volume and let the E17 amp the output...
   
  Gain is the amount of power coming out of the amp..


----------



## UnarmedLad

Huh? No, you'll generally want to maximize all digital volume control to get the highest Signal-to-Noise Ratio from the computer. And I assume the E17 has a power cleaner so that noise from the port will be less of an issue anyway. (But I'm not certain, I don't have mine yet due to a stupid mistake from MP4 Nation. :-S Oh well, expected no better. But one can hope...)


----------



## bowei006

Yes, you want to leave all your applications and windows or anything to 100% and nothing lower. I use WASAPI on foobar.


----------



## acenima

Anyone know how I can use the fiio e17 as a amp for the Xonar DG? im having trouble getting sound


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





acenima said:


> Hmm, I thought the gain just gave the device more juice but i dont know


 
   
  Yes... increasing the volume needs more juice. The gain increases the volume, as such, gives more juice. Don't forget that when you are moving the volume normally(0-60), you are increasing or decreasing the juice/power, right: Voltage, Current? Any electrical engineer want to clarify the situation on gain for us? I hear people talk about clipping and what not so more clarification is needed. If someone says that increasing the gain would eliminate clipping throughout the entire volume range then I'm guessing I'm missing something...


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





acenima said:


> Anyone know how I can use the fiio e17 as a amp for the Xonar DG? im having trouble getting sound


 
   
  Why not use as AMP/DAC through optical out?


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Why not use as AMP/DAC through optical out?


 
   

 I tried but it wasnt working, optical cord in the spdif out port to the fiio e17 spdif in port. with headphones in the headphone port and their was no sound. So i have it on USB right now.
   
  Also which sample rates should I have checked for best results?


----------



## visanj

Could anyone please let me know which part in E17 gives this bright signature? Is it the DAC or Amp?


----------



## Pieface

I got some of the HM5/FA-003 type OEM cans yesterday. Just killing it with the e17 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  ...everyone was right. this place is bad for your wallet


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





visanj said:


> Could anyone please let me know which part in E17 gives this bright signature? Is it the DAC or Amp?


 
   
  I think the DAC, but i heard it loses brightness over time


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





acenima said:


> I think the DAC, but i heard it loses brightness over time


 
   
  What's your control when you say the E17 is bright?


----------



## ukflyboy

I have to say I am a little underwhelmed thus far with my E17. I've only had it a couple of days and isn't really bad, just not as earth shaking as I was hoping. Using it with my Laptop via USB it definitely improves the sound of my music collection but doesn't seem to be as noticeable with movies ripped at around 1-2GB. 
  Using it with my iPhone it definitely improves the sound but to be honest I still think my Aud-5X CIEMs sound better straight from my Rockboxed Clip+. The clip just seems to have better extension, particularly in the sub-bass department which is very important to me. The only downside to the Clip+ for me is the user interface (I tend to flick around songs rather than just let an album play) so I was hoping the E17 would give me the same sound but with the iPhone touch interface (using either the standard player or panamp). Sadly it hasn't so I think I now need to decide if I'll keep it just for my laptop or sell it on here.
  Don't get me wrong, the E17 does sound a lot better than the standard iPhone but if I prefer the sound of the Clip+ then the extra weight and bulk is hard to justify.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





ukflyboy said:


> I have to say I am a little underwhelmed thus far with my E17. I've only had it a couple of days and isn't really bad, just not as earth shaking as I was hoping. Using it with my Laptop via USB it definitely improves the sound of my music collection but doesn't seem to be as noticeable with movies ripped at around 1-2GB.
> Using it with my iPhone it definitely improves the sound but to be honest I still think my Aud-5X CIEMs sound better straight from my Rockboxed Clip+. The clip just seems to have better extension, particularly in the sub-bass department which is very important to me. The only downside to the Clip+ for me is the user interface (I tend to flick around songs rather than just let an album play) so I was hoping the E17 would give me the same sound but with the iPhone touch interface (using either the standard player or panamp). Sadly it hasn't so I think I now need to decide if I'll keep it just for my laptop or sell it on here.
> Don't get me wrong, the E17 does sound a lot better than the standard iPhone but if I prefer the sound of the Clip+ then the extra weight and bulk is hard to justify.


 
   

 You must like the sound of the DAC in the Clip+ compared to the iphones DAC. Remember the E17 will not bypass the DAC in the iphone, only the amp.


----------



## RingingEars

Mine just showed up in the mail. I have it charging as I type this. We'll see how it compares to the E7. Better I'm assuming...


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





acenima said:


> I tried but it wasnt working, optical cord in the spdif out port to the fiio e17 spdif in port. with headphones in the headphone port and their was no sound. So i have it on USB right now.
> 
> Also which sample rates should I have checked for best results?


 
   

 Still having problems with this, could it be because the xonar dg doesnt support 192? Im using the latest unified xonar drivers.


----------



## MattTCG

Just order the e17 from ebay. Was about to order from amazon but the price jumped up $50!! Got $139 free shipping from a trusted ebay retailer. Can't wait...hoping for a good upgrade from my old e10.


----------



## Formula 51

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just order the e17 from ebay. Was about to order from amazon but the price jumped up $50!! Got $139 free shipping from a trusted ebay retailer. Can't wait...hoping for a good upgrade from my old e10.


 
   

 So did I... I had one in my cart on amazon this morning, went to buy it, its now $199... Guess I will check ebay now...


----------



## RingingEars

Really? I bought mine from Amazon last Fri for $149(Micca store) and they threw in a free toslink cable...


----------



## Chinafbi

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Really? I bought mine from Amazon last Fri for $149(Micca store) and they threw in a free toslink cable...


 
   
  The new price is $199 on amazon.  It started today.


----------



## acenima

You can just buy it directly from Miccastore for $139.95, comes with free toslink.


----------



## visanj

After 50 hrs burn-in I can tell that E17 is the king of USB DACs but this king has no mercy and he is aggressive too
   
  I rarely listen to good recordings may be some 20% but mostly I listen mostly to indian music which has recording quality from medium to poor....Clip+ easily forgives and I really enjoy the musical signature but E17 reveals all the pit falls in the recording making  me to remove my headphones or change the track
   
  Isn't there any DAC/Amp which suits my taste?


----------



## MattTCG

What headphones do you listen with? You may need a hp that is more forgiving, not the amp.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> What headphones do you listen with? You may need a hp that is more forgiving, not the amp.


 
   

 Do you recommend any Headphone thats more forgiving and musical? upto $300
   
  I love Brainwavz M2 a lot. I'm looking for similar kind of headphone which is more musical/enjoyable rather than accurate


----------



## skcheng

I would also know if there is a "better" headphone to work with FiiO E17 and E9.    I purchased both of these amps first and I figured I would look into phones second. 
   
  So far I've picked up the Denon AH-NC800 phones on clearance over at the Expo.   Great price at $200 NIB since they're blowing them out and now I realize they're being discontinued.  
   
  skc


----------



## skcheng

Quote: 





formula 51 said:


> So did I... I had one in my cart on amazon this morning, went to buy it, its now $199... Guess I will check ebay now...


 
   

 I just checked and the ebay seller I purchased from is still holding at $139 with free shipping.   Not sure if it's okay to post ebay links here, but a simple search will work.   So maybe the retail pricing on this unit will be closer to $199?


----------



## beaver316

Received my E17 today and have been charging it for the last 3 hours. I just wanted to make sure, when the red light turns off that indicates that the battery is full right? Because at this rate im wondering if it will even switch off, its been along time now.


----------



## RingingEars

Loving this DAC so far. Thinking of picking up and E9 to compliment it.  Anyone know how it sounds with the AHD2000?


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Loving this DAC so far. Thinking of picking up and E9 to compliment it.  Anyone know how it sounds with the AHD2000?


 
   
  E9 with D2000? Good!


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Received my E17 today and have been charging it for the last 3 hours. I just wanted to make sure, when the red light turns off that indicates that the battery is full right? Because at this rate im wondering if it will even switch off, its been along time now.


 
   
  Yes, when the red light goes off, the E17 is fully charged. If you are using the standard USB port on your computer/laptop, then the voltage is usually lower than from (say) a wall socket USB charger, so it will take longer.
   
  When I charged my E17 using my laptop USB port, it took almost 8 hours, I believe.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





visanj said:


> Do you recommend any Headphone thats more forgiving and musical? upto $300
> 
> I love Brainwavz M2 a lot. I'm looking for similar kind of headphone which is more musical/enjoyable rather than accurate


 
   

 the d2k would be great...get 'em while you can!!


----------



## bowei006

@visanj
So your comment is that its too good? Haha. Ignorance is bloss. I have some songs that have problems due to mastering and my setup shows it all. It makes me wish I didnt know, but i wouldnt want apple earbuds also.



@Beaver316
Yes, when red light disapears the device is fully charged. First charge depending on what you are charging it with could take 5-9hrs. I charged it with my laptop when I first got it(mistake) and it took 9hrs.

I use headphone out of my ipod and earphones when I am out on normal activites. No nee to be head fi biased. At home and when i want i use my full setup


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





mradrian said:


> E9 with D2000? Good!


 
   

 Good to know. I think these will be my next cans.


----------



## mrAdrian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> the d2k would be great...get 'em while you can!!


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Good to know. I think these will be my next cans.


 
   
  They are discontinued officially. Get them quickly. The new ones look ugly tbh
   
  Now I feel like some D7000 cups, but they are so expensive. I need some lottle/marksix/lucky draw


----------



## beaver316

The first 2 hours i charged it from my laptop, and now the next 2 from the wall. Hopefully it finishes tonight because if it doesnt, then the next chance i'll have to use the E17 is on Sunday. The wait is killing me!


----------



## visanj

Is denon d2k headphone better than Brainwavz HM5 or Sennheiser HD series?


----------



## visanj

is there any other recommendation as I'm from India and it would be difficult for me to purchase even in normal situations (when product is available). Now if D2k is in limited stocks then I'm not sure if I would be able to get it


----------



## beaver316

Just as i post my last post it finished charging  Need some time to test the sound difference between my laptop and the E17 though.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





visanj said:


> Is denon d2k headphone better than Brainwavz HM5 or Sennheiser HD series?


 
   
  For me, yes no question.


----------



## beaver316

Another noob question here 
   
  I read that it's good to run down the battery of the E17 every once in a while to keep the battery in good shape since im going to be using this thing only on my PC (usb). So if i have it plugged on my pc and have "USB CHG" off in settings, that means the battery is being used? Or is the power coming from my PC?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Another noob question here
> 
> I read that it's good to run down the battery of the E17 every once in a while to keep the battery in good shape since im going to be using this thing only on my PC (usb). So if i have it plugged on my pc and have "USB CHG" off in settings, that means the battery is being used? Or is the power coming from my PC?


 
   
  USB charge off means you are using the battery of the E17, you can have the USB cable plugged in as a connection to the computer but the USB won't charge the device. After your device runs out of power from it's battery. It will turn off, and despite whatever setting you were on, the device will charge again(out of battery so default state) and you can let it charge. AFter it's done charging you just turn USB CHG to off again. I don't have this problem as I use S/PDIF.


----------



## MattTCG

Got mine tracking and will be here on Friday!! Question that is indirectly related. 
   
  One aspect that I'm excited about it being able to use the e17 with my ipod or iphone and be portable. Questions:
   
  1. Is all that I need an LOD for connection?
   
  2. Much of my cd collection is now ripped to flac. Now I want to re-rip and get the best quality for the ipod. Is apple lossless the best?
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Got mine tracking and will be here on Friday!! Question that is indirectly related.
> 
> One aspect that I'm excited about it being able to use the e17 with my ipod or iphone and be portable. Questions:
> 
> ...


 
   

 Keep in mind the DAC in the E17 will not bypass the DAC in the ipod so it will be an amp only with the ipod.
  I like ALAC and can't tell the difference between it and FLAC.


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> power
> 1. Is all that I need an LOD for connection?
> 
> 2. Much of my cd collection is now ripped to flac. Now I want to re-rip and get the best quality for the ipod. Is apple lossless the best?
> ...


 
   
  Yes all you need is a LOD. If you use a mini to mini cable you will be double amping which is frowned upon.
   
  No need to re-rip. Just use DBpoweramp or something similar and convert to ALAC. There is no loss in quality when converting lossless files to another lossless format.


----------



## Bleether

The battery life on the Alpen is no joke. I have been using it since i got it on April 17th, and i still have not had to charge it!


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





bleether said:


> The battery life on the Alpen is no joke. I have been using it since i got it on April 17th, and i still have not had to charge it!


 
   
  [size=medium]Really?[/size]
  [size=medium]How many hrs usage?? I do not get more than 8hrs iphone->L9->E17->TF10[/size]


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=medium]Really?[/size]
> [size=medium]How many hrs usage?? I do not get more than 8hrs iphone->L9->E17->TF10[/size]


 
   

 iPhone 4>L9>E17>ATH-M50 and Asus G53sx laptop>USB>E17(charge set to off)>ATH-M50. My total run time, according to the system menu, says i have 3days 2 hours and 57 minutes of use on it. I use my Alpen probably 65% laptop and 35% iphone 4, and i am actually surprised at how long the battery has lasted for. I am looking at the battery bar and i still have 3 bars of charge left! I dont leave my Alpen plugged in to my computer when not in use, so i have no clue why that batter is lasting to long! There is no doubt i have used my Alpen for over 8 hours and battery is still strong.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bleether said:


> iPhone 4>L9>E17>ATH-M50 and Asus G53sx laptop>USB>E17(charge set to off)>ATH-M50. My total run time, according to the system menu, says i have 3days 2 hours and 57 minutes of use on it. I use my Alpen probably 65% laptop and 35% iphone 4, and i am actually surprised at how long the battery has lasted for. I am looking at the battery bar and i still have 3 bars of charge left! I dont leave my Alpen plugged in to my computer when not in use, so i have no clue why that batter is lasting to long! There is no doubt i have used my Alpen for over 8 hours and battery is still strong.


 
   
  The System run time from what I can tell just tells you the amount of time it's been(not use) since it last ran out of power. I got mine in January(late) and the Run time says 27 days. I have not used it for 27 days, but it sounds about right for the last time my device ran completely out of power....just a thought. I could and is probably wrong on. My device is fully charged at the moment, but I will come back tomorrow with more news on the run time.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> Yes all you need is a LOD. If you use a mini to mini cable you will be double amping which is frowned upon.
> 
> No need to re-rip. Just use DBpoweramp or something similar and convert to ALAC. There is no loss in quality when converting lossless files to another lossless format.


 
   
  Great...thanks for the info!!


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





bleether said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You must have set USB charging on, that way when it connected to Asus it is charging again.
 I charge it to full, switch off USB charging and turn it back again for full charge, when I see one bar.
  
  Li-ion Battery life is extended when we do full charge rather than partial charge, I read this long time back not able to recollect when and where
  
  any suggestions!!!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Keep in mind the DAC in the E17 will not bypass the DAC in the ipod so it will be an amp only with the ipod.
> I like ALAC and can't tell the difference between it and FLAC.


 
   
  So I will be stuck with the ipod dac no matter what? Well, ipod has a decent dac though right?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> So I will be stuck with the ipod dac no matter what? Well, ipod has a decent dac though right?


 
   
  It has a decent one. It's not bad and it's not superior either, but it is better than most other universal devices out.
   
  You can bypass the DAC however with an CLAS or HP-P1. CLAS has no internal amp(so you use your own) while HP-P1 does.
   
  If done correctly there is no difference from a FLAC or ALAC of the same file.


----------



## MattTCG

Does the Cowen or some other media player allow use to use the dac of the e17 as well as play flac natively?


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> So I will be stuck with the ipod dac no matter what? Well, ipod has a decent dac though right?


 
   
  Correct. I think the ipod touch 4g sounds good. Not as good as my Rock Boxed Sansa, but it so minor IMO that I really don't notice and the touch has so many more features than the clip that my clip pretty much sees no use anymore. One thing I love about the touch is Pandora. I use it more than listening to my own files. The wifi reaches around the entire perimeter of my property so when I'm outside doing whatever I can flip through Pandora, add new stations... It's great. I don't think I would buy a DAP that didn't have it...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Does the Cowen or some other media player allow use to use the dac of the e17 as well as play flac natively?


 
   
  Does any PMP allow for the E17's DAC for use? Not that I know of, some Android devices MAY be able to..but highly unlikely.
   
  First the Android device needs to support GTG, this is not on the majority of Android phone's, but thankfully since the people on head-fi are knowledgable, the majority of Android phone's in the forum are the one's that do have GTG on their phone's. Next you need Cyanogen or another distro. Cyanogen and the details of GTG are still sketchy, but even then, the USB draw power of the E17 is also a power. The USB draw of the E17 is so much that even the iPad with CCK won't allow connection unless you add another source of power or USB adapter that allows the device to draw more power is used. By that time your portable device would be as bulky as heck....with all the wire's poking out.
   
  Many devices support FLAC natively. Rockboxed iPod's and most audiophile PMP's do. Keep in mind that a FLAC app is availble in the iOS app store, but I don't like to use things such as that.


----------



## bkkcitiboi

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> You must have set USB charging on, that way when it connected to Asus it is charging again.
> I charge it to full, switch off USB charging and turn it back again for full charge, when I see one bar.
> 
> Li-ion Battery life is extended when we do full charge rather than partial charge, I read this long time back not able to recollect when and where
> ...


 
   
  Hey everybody... I am new to this forum and am from Bangkok, Thailand. I got the E17 about 2 weeks ago and I must say that the E17 is AWESOME!! You can buy the E17 in Thailand for about USD130 and you will receive the E17 the next day after making payment.
   
  As for your question, there is no memory effect for Li-ion batteries. So, it is safe to charge it whenever and partial charge does not really damage the battery.  For longevity, it is actually best to keep the charge between 20% and 80%.  If you are not going to use the battery for a period of time, it is actually best to keep it at about 40%-80% charged. Contrary to common belief, Li-ion batteries should not be depleted to 0% before re-charge.
   
  Just saying.....


----------



## Pieface

I was wondering if the battery indicator didn't work on my e17. I'm up to about 6 hours since I last charged it and it still shows full battery...definitely have USB charge set to Off. I expect it will just go down to empty rapidly when it starts moving.
   
  Visanj...I have an OEM type of the HM5. I think it sounds very nice but couldn't say compared to the the Denon as I haven't heard it. M2 IEM is quite bassy I have read. The HM5 won't deliver in the same way. HM5 should be more neutral but you have the EQ on the E17 which seems pretty good to me. I got a clip plus a couple of days ago too. It delivers the bass with more impact than the E17 so you might take some getting used to a different delivery of the sound...I would think Clip + and M2 IEM will be quite different to E17 + Monitor style HP.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





pieface said:


> I was wondering if the battery indicator didn't work on my e17. I'm up to about 6 hours since I last charged it and it still shows full battery...definitely have USB charge set to Off. I expect it will just go down to empty rapidly when it starts moving.
> 
> Vasanj...I have an OEM type of the HM5. I think it sounds very nice but couldn't say compared to the the Denon as I haven't heard it. M2 IEM is quite bassy I have read. The HM5 won't deliver in the same way. HM5 should be more neutral but you have the EQ on the E17 which seems pretty good to me. I got a clip plus a couple of days ago too. It delivers the bass with more impact than the E17 so you might take some getting used to a different delivery of the sound...I would think Clip + and M2 IEM will be quite different to E17 + Monitor style HP.


 
  Like any device...this is how the battery indicator works:
   
   

   
  Quote: 





bkkcitiboi said:


> Hey everybody... I am new to this forum and am from Bangkok, Thailand.


 
   
  Let me be the first to welcome you (bkkcitiboi) to Head-Fi forums!
*"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"*


----------



## acenima

Does your sound card need to support 192 for the fiio e17 to work with optical cord? my xonar dg only supports 96


----------



## bowei006

Your audio card/chipset needs to support 192KHz OVER S/PDIF(important) for you to get 192KHz on E17 please note updated drivers are also needed. I had a bug in v1 if my desktops audio chipset that limited S/PDIF to 96KHz but an update fixed it for me.


----------



## RingingEars

Well the love was short lived. Already having an issue with the 3.5mm headphone jack. Random pops noises. I sent Miccastore an email for an exchange because I really do like this DAC.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=medium]Really?[/size]
> [size=medium]How many hrs usage?? I do not get more than 8hrs iphone->L9->E17->TF10[/size]


 
   
  This, about 8 hours on iPhone or connected to xbox 360.


----------



## bkkcitiboi

For those who are interested in prolonging the life of their Li-ion battery, this is an extract from an article in the internet :
   

 A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
  
 Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
  
 Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
  
 Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
  
 Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
  
 Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
  
 Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost. 
   
  The full article can be found here : http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Appox 8 hrs on iPhone, [size=medium]2hrs a day typically[/size]


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Does the Cowen or some other media player allow use to use the dac of the e17 as well as play flac natively?


 
   
  I just got a Galaxy S Fascinate today (woot back to Wolfson + Voodoo)    Also purchased a Cowon J3 from a headfiier and eagerly waiting for this.
   
  My fascinate came with a USB cradle/dock and it has line out!!
   
  apparently some other galaxy S devices can use the same dock or other docks.  Line out was working fine until I installed Cyanogenmod 9 and Glitch Kernal (for Voodoo Sound to work with Ice Cream Sandwich (ICS)  / CM9).   I haven't been able to get it to work yet---but CM7 and CM9 are supposed to allow bypassing of the DAC via usb somehow.
   
  I can pretty safely say that I don't miss my iPod 5.5 gen....   My recollections of the GAlaxy S phone + voodoo was correct--it does give my TF10 noticeably better sound stage....even without an external amp.  The 5db amp that Voodoo provides is pretty brilliant...  and I guess I enjoy the warmer sound of Cowon? / Galaxy S/voodoo over the more cold sounding iPod 5.5g.  I'm pretty sure the iPod 5.5g is more analytical though.  
   
  No looking back....my only regret is that the Fascinate doesn't have built in 16gb + memory card slot like the Captivate and Vibrant models do.  Luckily I got the 32gb J3 model in which I'll put my 16gb microSD and 32GB card into the Fascinate


----------



## visanj

You don't need an external DAC for Galaxy S + Voodoo. In XDA forums I read that Galaxy S + Voodoo already sounds better than many cheap DACs


----------



## n4tiv3

I'm also using my VooDoo'd Fascinate with my E17 and loving it so far. I prefer it over my old Sony A728/PA2V2 combo.

And just for reference I'm using Beyer DT770/80's. Really happy with this setup.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





pieface said:


> I was wondering if the battery indicator didn't work on my e17. I'm up to about 6 hours since I last charged it and it still shows full battery...definitely have USB charge set to Off. I expect it will just go down to empty rapidly when it starts moving.
> 
> Visanj...I have an OEM type of the HM5. I think it sounds very nice but couldn't say compared to the the Denon as I haven't heard it. M2 IEM is quite bassy I have read. The HM5 won't deliver in the same way. HM5 should be more neutral but you have the EQ on the E17 which seems pretty good to me. I got a clip plus a couple of days ago too. It delivers the bass with more impact than the E17 so you might take some getting used to a different delivery of the sound...I would think Clip + and M2 IEM will be quite different to E17 + Monitor style HP.


 
   
   
  Thanks for your inputs. Do you mean to say E17 is more of Monitoring/analytical type of DAC?
   
  I'm looking at many reviews including HM5, CAL, D2000 etc but I'm unable to conclude which will pair with E17 for more enjoyable/musical sound. I am thinking if CAL would be the right choice but no idea...


----------



## Pieface

My feel is E17 is neutral to slightly warm but I admit little experience to make comparisons. There have been quite a few mentions of e17 being "bright" but I am not finding that myself.
   
  E17 and HM5 has been sounding good to me across a range of genres -
  Hip Hop
  Electronica
  Folk
  Classic Rock
  Soul
  Reggae
   
  Metallica : Master of Puppets has been the only thing I've listened to so far that has left me feeling a bit underwhelmed. I don't do a lot of metal though so I haven't been able to compare against other recordings yet. I also didn't play with the EQ and see if there was any improvement to be had there.
   
  Not sure how well this relates to your preferred musical tastes.
   
  The main thing that would worry me is you mentioned about poor quality recordings earlier. I feel like I'm getting quite a bit of detail so I would worry that you may hear more than you want to with that...


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Well the love was short lived. Already having an issue with the 3.5mm headphone jack. Random pops noises. I sent Miccastore an email for an exchange because I really do like this DAC.


 
   

 Is anyone else having an issue with the Aux out on thier E17? I did some experimenting with it last night and it just seems to do it using the Aux out connected to the ipod. USB and S/PDIF seem fine.
  The sound is just coming from the right side and sounds like some sort of mechanical noise. It's a very quiet popping and whoosh sort of noise.
  Tried the headphones on other amps and with the E17 on different inputs and directly out of the touch to rule out the headphones. Also tried it with different headphones just to rule that out as well.
  Sent Micca Store an email and unfortunately with the E17 being so in demand they cannot do an exchange...


----------



## qohelet

ringingears said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No problem for me so far at first i thought i was having problem with only the left side of d5k producing a sound.. When i checked everything i realized that my headphone jack was not completely inserted.. Unlike my e7 i really had to push my jack down the same with aux. I think fiio dis this to make the connection more secure. 

E17 rocks!!! Now my d5k can sing!!!


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





qohelet said:


> E17 rocks!!! Now my d5k can sing!!!


 
   

 Agreed. It is a great sounding DAC/amp. I hooked it up USB last night and was playing some 24/96 files through the V moda M-80 and was in audio heaven.
  Also when I said the sound was only coming out of the right I meant the pop/whoosh sound. The music is playing fine out of both L/R.
  Hopefully it resolves itself because I really don't want to send it back for refund. I'm loving this DAC.


----------



## bowei006

Try other headphones and note musical tracks. It could be a problem on your computer, USB cable, or headphones amongst others


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Try other headphones and note musical tracks. It could be a problem on your computer, USB cable, or headphones amongst others


 
   

 Already have. I've done every combo I can with the equipment I own. The computer or USB isn't the issue. Those sound great. It has to be an issue with the Aux out on the E17. Headphones directly out of the ipod has no noise. Plug the ipod into the E17 I get noise, but it's just the right side. Maybe there is some manufacturing oils or something in the jack. I'll give it a day or two to see if it settles down.


----------



## MattTCG

Anyone using the e17 with the he400?


----------



## qiko

Hi all
   
  I am curious about the E17 and the iPad2. Will it work together?
   
  Thanks,


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Already have. I've done every combo I can with the equipment I own. The computer or USB isn't the issue. Those sound great. It has to be an issue with the Aux out on the E17. Headphones directly out of the ipod has no noise. Plug the ipod into the E17 I get noise, but it's just the right side. Maybe there is some manufacturing oils or something in the jack. I'll give it a day or two to see if it settles down.


 
   

 Since you didn't mention this I guess I may as well give a shot.
  Have you tried with different cables?
  I know I've had some occasional trouble with my FiiO cables, but otherwise the AUX and USB both work flawlessly. Sometimes I do get scratching noise when using the E17 but as mentioned, it is usually the cable (FiiO or not) or my crappy 1/4" to 1/8" converter on the headphone side... reason why I don't use these as portables anymore. Until I get a better plug and a new LOD cable I always either get scratching sound or lose the right channel. I don't have anything that can do S/PIDF so that's the only stuff I've yet to try.
  Another point I should mention is that the headphone jack on the E17 does not limit movements completely. It will keep the plug from moving in the plane where the left and ground channel have contact, but move it sideways (perpendicular to the contact plane) and you will get scratching noise. Thankfully it stills holds it VERY well, but it is a possibility, especially if the headphone jack is not built very well (like my stereo converter) or made a bit smaller.
   
  I did find myself having trouble with the interface when my unit was low on power though. It kept telling me Low Power that it didn't let me use the menu... couldn't even turn on USB charging. Had to shut it down, let it charge for 2 seconds, and boot it again to turn USB charging on.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yes.. it's quite nice. I sometimes use the E17 with my MacBookAir & HE-400's when I'm away from my main rig. Given that, the HE-400's do sound better with a more upscale setup.
   
  Edit: Haven't spent too much time with the  above config so I though that I would give it a serious listen.  Been listening MBA > E17 > HE-400 for the last half hour or so and it's really, really nice. Everything from Dead Can Dance, Patricia Barber, Enigma, AC/DC to U2 and Dire Straits (all Apple Lossless via iTunes).  For the money, the combo is a killer setup.
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Anyone using the e17 with the he400?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





qiko said:


> Hi all
> 
> I am curious about the E17 and the iPad2. Will it work together?
> 
> Thanks,


 
   
  Yes it will "work". Will it bypass the iPad 2's DAC? No. You need a Camera Connection Kit first, and next you need a seperate source of power for the E17's plug(so like a powered usb hub) as the e17's power draw is larger than what the iPad supports. Some of those usb adapters that increase the voltage have been said to work but I do not know. 
   
  The E17 will work with any device that outputs sound through a 3.5mm jack.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Since you didn't mention this I guess I may as well give a shot.
> Have you tried with different cables?
> I know I've had some occasional trouble with my FiiO cables, but otherwise the AUX and USB both work flawlessly. Sometimes I do get scratching noise when using the E17 but as mentioned, it is usually the cable (FiiO or not) or my crappy 1/4" to 1/8" converter on the headphone side... reason why I don't use these as portables anymore. Until I get a better plug and a new LOD cable I always either get scratching sound or lose the right channel. I don't have anything that can do S/PIDF so that's the only stuff I've yet to try.
> Another point I should mention is that the headphone jack on the E17 does not limit movements completely. It will keep the plug from moving in the plane where the left and ground channel have contact, but move it sideways (perpendicular to the contact plane) and you will get scratching noise. Thankfully it stills holds it VERY well, but it is a possibility, especially if the headphone jack is not built very well (like my stereo converter) or made a bit smaller.
> ...


 
   
  I was thinking about that too. I only have the L9. Maybe a better LOD will solve the issue.


----------



## visanj

As far as I can see there is only 'AUX' input and 'Headphone out' 
   
  Is there is any 'AUX' output in E17?


----------



## sinew4ve

I just got my E17 today!  Is this an appropriate place to post a short review?


----------



## RingingEars

Also is the balance supposed to cut the R/L completely as you go R/L or is it just by a few dB?


----------



## bowei006

A short review as in what you are hearing and how much you like it? If its below 3 parapgras and more as an impression for others than i think it fit the atmosphere of this thread. If its really a reciew, the e17 has its own page on the forums for review. Longer more thought out reviews are usually in a new thread of its own on head fi


----------



## Yozora

What do you all think about the sound quality of the e17 vs. the e10?
   
  I'm considering buying an e10 or e17 to replace my e7, but I'm only going to be using it with my PC so I'm not worried about portability. I can get the e10 for $70 but it looks like the e17 is ~$160, so I'd rather go with the e10 if the sound quality is similar. Thanks.


----------



## qohelet

yozora said:


> What do you all think about the sound quality of the e17 vs. the e10?
> 
> I'm considering buying an e10 or e17 to replace my e7, but I'm only going to be using it with my PC so I'm not worried about portability. I can get the e10 for $70 but it looks like the e17 is ~$160, so I'd rather go with the e10 if the sound quality is similar. Thanks.




Last time i checked it was 140.


----------



## sinew4ve

I'd like to say a few things. I received my E17 today, and I paired it with Ultrasone PRO 750s.
   
  I'm very happy with the way it sounds!  HOWEVER!
   
  It really is an awesome little unit. Some of the best sound I have yet to hear coming out of my Ultrasone PRO 750s. Okay, actually it IS the best sound that has come out of the Ultrasones. I had my Ultrasones for sale because I didn't have anything to drive them with, but now I plan to keep them because I can see the PRO 750s potential now after using the E17.
   
  Now if you noticed I said HOWEVER. And there is an issue here. I would give this 9/10 or 10/10 however it is more like 7/10. And here is why.
   
  I'm also getting the static issue some people are mentioning. I have a brand new build computer all latest technology... i5-2500K, Asus Sabertooth P67 Motherboard, Corsair AX750 Power Supply, 8GB of Corsair Vengeance RAM, running on USB 3.0 and a Corsair Performance Pro SSD. There should not be any latency here or issues about upgrading the computer or motherboard. (with all the latest drivers)
   
  Now although it sounds good when it works, the E17 produces static almost everytime I play a track. And you can hear it loud and clearly (well if you have trained ears like ours). I'm quite sure this is the same static everyone else is having. I also noticed that if I rewind the track a few seconds to duplicate the static areas it will happen but after about the 4th-7th time I rewind it to the part with the static, the static will disappear and it will be CRYSTAL clear (this is where the 9/10 or 10/10 comes in).
   
  But whenever I switch tracks it produces the static again. So far it seems to always produce static everytime I load a new track (using different programs). But I actually thought they were part of the track until they dissappeared after rewind the songs several times. Not sure if it is a buffering thing or what, but it's slightly annoying knowing that I can't just play a track and expect to hear it at its hightest fidelity. And that is where the big HOWEVER 7/10 comes in....
   
  Should I return it, or stick it out? I like the little guy, but It's kind of annoying to pay $150 for something that doesn't really do what it is mean to do... which is to give clear quality audio. I could care less if the issues was with something else (asthetic), but we are buying it for audio quality and the audio quality is affected with this problem....
   
  So I'm on the fence. I love it, yet I hate the static. I hope I can get rid of it somehow or it might be going back.
   
  Open to suggestions! THANKS!


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





visanj said:


> As far as I can see there is only 'AUX' input and 'Headphone out'
> 
> Is there is any 'AUX' output in E17?


 
   
  Yes, you answered your own question  LOL


----------



## MickeyVee

Check out the Headphonia review on the E17 and decide for yourself.  I have both and happen to agree (clear across the board better).  On the other hand, when I just had the E10 (still do) I was extremely happy with it.  Ignorance is bliss, just had to do the upgrade thing and my E10 is sitting around as a backup.  If you don't need portability and the features of the E17, the E10 is a great buy and a good dec/amp.
  BTW.. which headphones? It's also all about synergy.
   
  Quote: 





yozora said:


> What do you all think about the sound quality of the e17 vs. the e10?
> 
> I'm considering buying an e10 or e17 to replace my e7, but I'm only going to be using it with my PC so I'm not worried about portability. I can get the e10 for $70 but it looks like the e17 is ~$160, so I'd rather go with the e10 if the sound quality is similar. Thanks.


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Let me know if you can hear the quality you would if it were in person... a good quality acoustic guitar sounds amazing compared to any guitar piece in my music collection, even at 96K\24bit.


 
   
  So i attended the L.A meet at the Village last Sunday, and i had the chance to listen to many of the top end headphones that are often talked about like the LCD-2, LCD3, Stax, D2000,D7000, K701.... list goes on and on. Long story short, acoustic guitars sound incredibly realistic on these setups. Words truly cannot give you a sense of what these rigs sound like unless you try them out for yourself.... i was completely blown away by the different headphone and amp combos.


----------



## yungyaw

@sinew4ve
   
  How long have you been using the E17? I'm not sure if my experience is the same as yours but I thought maybe I should share it with you.
   
  When I first got mine, I plugged it into my MacBook Pro straightaway for charging. Since I was too eager to use it, I turned it on after just 30 mins of charging and let it run and charge at the same time. I set the E17 as the default audio device in the System Preferences. Then I started playing some music. The sound was OK but I noticed some static/distortion for a few seconds every time I press a key on my keyboard (any key).
   
  I was really worried that there is some problem with my E17. I tried many other music and different file format and the problem still the same. I also tried closing and restarting the music player app (Decibel), but it's still the same. Then I tried restarting my laptop and everything works fine from then onwards. Phew!
   
  I'm not sure why the E17 exhibit this behaviour on first use, but I guess maybe it's due to the device driver was not loaded properly and a restart solved the problem. Hope you will find a solution soon cos the E17 is really a marvelous product. I'm loving it. Cheers!


----------



## Yozora

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Check out the Headphonia review on the E17 and decide for yourself.  I have both and happen to agree (clear across the board better).  On the other hand, when I just had the E10 (still do) I was extremely happy with it.  Ignorance is bliss, just had to do the upgrade thing and my E10 is sitting around as a backup.  If you don't need portability and the features of the E17, the E10 is a great buy and a good dec/amp.
> BTW.. which headphones? It's also all about synergy.


 
   
  Yep, the Headphonia review is actually what caused me to become skeptical about buying the e10. So the general consensus is that the e17 has better sound quality than the e10, but either one will be a significant upgrade over the e7? Btw I'm using Senn HD598's


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> I was thinking about that too. I only have the L9. Maybe a better LOD will solve the issue.


 
   
  Have you tried with the stock patch cable that comes with the E17? It may not be a LOD but it could possibly identify the issue.
  With that said, the L9 is an excellent cable, though I think it may be a little too thick for the solder joints, bending it ends up causing slight ruptures or disconnections. The 'cheaper' equivalents are more flexible.
   
  Or, since you have V-moda, they come with other cables no? you can try those also as the AUX cables.


----------



## bowei006

@sinew4v

You may have a faulty unit. Or a faulty usb cable. Try a different usb cable and plug on your computer heck try it with aux

As this review said even with a 5% faulty batch the more units made, the higher that goes.

Most as you can tell dont have this problem... Most? You are the first to have this specific one.

After i say what i am about to say next you will be " oh yeah i know that" and of course you probably do deep down but didnt connect it yet.
Just because your computer and hardware is new and self built with the most updated drivers does not mean your board or usb ports has some deficiencies by design or by that percent error and those updated drivers do not mean you have the best fix.
Try a front panel and back panel usb port. Ones that are on your chasis connected to the mobo sometimes have static issues.

And as said also try the two way 3.5mm cable with your computers audio out on the back(not on front) direct from the motherboard out is better for tests. And see if aux gives any issues and then report back.


----------



## qiko

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes it will "work". Will it bypass the iPad 2's DAC? No. You need a Camera Connection Kit first, and next you need a seperate source of power for the E17's plug(so like a powered usb hub) as the e17's power draw is larger than what the iPad supports. Some of those usb adapters that increase the voltage have been said to work but I do not know.
> 
> The E17 will work with any device that outputs sound through a 3.5mm jack.


 
   
  Good Info. Thanks!


----------



## MattTCG

How well does the EQ work with the e17? Just wondered. I normally listen "flat" with my stuff but hear the hardware eq is good.


----------



## bowei006

The EQ works very well. It may get muddy or too high if its too high and isnt perfect but it is a useable good EQ when you need it


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Also is the balance supposed to cut the R/L completely as you go R/L or is it just by a few dB?


 
   

 NM. Found my answer. I think the Fiio just has a more sophicated balance control than I'm use to. It seems to be more of a pan control than a side to side volume control.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @sinew4v
> You may have a faulty unit. Or a faulty usb cable. Try a different usb cable and plug on your computer heck try it with aux
> As this review said even with a 5% faulty batch the more units made, the higher that goes.
> Most as you can tell dont have this problem... Most? You are the first to have this specific one.
> ...


 
   
  MICCA just tole me that only 3 E17 have problem, one is about headphone socket, 2 are pop noise , so far they sold out about 600pcs ALPEN. we plan to ask our supplier to make headphone socket as we want, it will cost us about $10,000 to make private molding but it will help us improve
   
  the quality to a very high level ( RMA rate may decrease to less than 0.5% ).
   
  BTW, the pop noise may be not the problem of ALPEN itself.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





yungyaw said:


> @sinew4ve
> 
> How long have you been using the E17? I'm not sure if my experience is the same as yours but I thought maybe I should share it with you.
> 
> ...


 
   
  When connected to PC/Laptop through the USB, some problem about the SQ may cause by the PC/Laptop because the OS are running lots of task so the USB data stream may have problem to sending the data correctly. it will be better to try your ALPEN in other PC to see whether the problem still there.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> MICCA just tole me that only 3 E17 have problem, one is about headphone socket, 2 are pop noise , so far they sold out about 600pcs ALPEN. we plan to ask our supplier to make headphone socket as we want, it will cost us about $10,000 to make private molding but it will help us improve
> 
> the quality to a very high level ( RMA rate may decrease to less than 0.5% ).
> 
> BTW, the pop noise may be not the problem of ALPEN itself.


 
   
  Hi Feiao.
  I'm having an issue with my Alpens Aux in. It makes a pop/whoosh noise out of the right side of my headphones(Westone UM2 and V-MODA M-80). The USB and S/PDIF have no problems and sound fantastic.
  I have tried the headphones with different DAPs, amps, and DACs just to eliminate the headphones as the problem.
  I haven't tried using the supplied 3.5mm patch instead of the L9 LOD cable as suggested by another member, but I will give that a shot tonight.
  So it's either the Alpen or the L9(I will order another L9 just to be sure).
  I contacted Micca about a replacement, but was told they could not give me one because they were running out of stock and that is understandable. I also don't want a refund as I really like the sound of this little DAC.
  I just wanted to note the issue here with you incase I need to send it off to you for warranty work.
   
  Thanks Feiao


----------



## MattTCG

Just got mine in!! Are you supposed to charge it several hours first? Something that I'll miss from the e10 is a simple knob for volume control. Didn't think about that really. An analogue volume control is such a simple yet necessary function. 
   
  First impression after 20 minutes. They sound is good but there is a LOT of noise/hiss. Am I doing something wrong here?


----------



## qohelet

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just got mine in!! Are you supposed to charge it several hours first? Something that I'll miss from the e10 is a simple knob for volume control. Didn't think about that really. An analogue volume control is such a simple yet necessary function.
> 
> First impression after 20 minutes. They sound is good but there is a LOT of noise/hiss. Am I doing something wrong here?


 
   
  damn mattcg.. thought ur not goona jump in buying the e17.lol
   
  when i received mine, i just left it plugged in the whole night with my d5k while continously playing music... i dont have any hissing problem.. try restarting your computer and plug the e17 again.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just got mine in!! Are you supposed to charge it several hours first? Something that I'll miss from the e10 is a simple knob for volume control. Didn't think about that really. An analogue volume control is such a simple yet necessary function.
> 
> First impression after 20 minutes. They sound is good but there is a LOT of noise/hiss. Am I doing something wrong here?


 
   

 Yes. Mine took a 6-7 hrs before the red light went dim indicating it's fully charged. I haven't had to charge it again so not sure it's just the initial charge that takes so long, but once it's charged it seems to last forever. I've used it a lot in the last couple days and it's only dropped a couple bars off the battery indicator. Fiio definately implimented a good design for long battery useage.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay. Charged it a while and did a restart on the pc and no hiss!! Sounds really good. I'm liking the hardware EQ. Gain control is nice for switching between d2k an he400. Gonna need some serious time with to develop a real idea of how it sounds. 
   
  Still miss the volume knob though


----------



## qohelet

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> Yes. Mine took a 6-7 hrs before the red light went dim indicating it's fully charged. I haven't had to charge it again so not sure it's just the initial charge that takes so long, but once it's charged it seems to last forever. I've used it a lot in the last couple days and it's only dropped a couple bars off the battery indicator. Fiio definately implimented a good design for long battery useage.


 
   

 that's why it's a portable amp it takes forever before the battery runs out


----------



## qohelet

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay. Charged it a while and did a restart on the pc and no hiss!! Sounds really good. I'm liking the hardware EQ. Gain control is nice for switching between d2k an he400. Gonna need some serious time with to develop a real idea of how it sounds.
> 
> Still miss the volume knob though


 
   

 restart seems to solve the hissing issue. i read that one member had the same problem and pc restart solved it the problem i guess is on the driver. anyhow lets enjoy the e17! it definitely made my d5k sing!!!


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





qohelet said:


> that's why it's a portable amp it takes forever before the battery runs out


 
   

 I wish apple had that mentality. I bet I will charge my touch 3-4 times to the E17 1...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> I wish apple had that mentality. I bet I will charge my touch 3-4 times to the E17 1...


 
   
  You use the iPod touch more than the E17.(probably) not to mention you are probably not using it like the E17 with it's limited controls. The iPod has to run background applications if you don't close them(it had basic multi tasking with the iPod and other apps at first, current multi tasking is a worse battery eater), next your wireless based connections be it wifi or bluetooth if you didn't close it will suck up power. Your screen brightness when you use it and how you use it will also matter. Then we have what applications you are going to be using and etc. A charge per day is normal. The iPod is mm's thick. IT is very hard to blame a device like that espeically when Apple's products are made to be "relatively" enviromentaly friendlier than they used to be.
   
  Apple has this mentality. That's why their computers have unibody design and advanced energy management chips to regulate power and thus give Apple computers their 7+ Battery life on regular computers and 9 hours on their "Air's".


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You use the iPod touch more than the E17.(probably) not to mention you are probably not using it like the E17 with it's limited controls. The iPod has to run background applications if you don't close them(it had basic multi tasking with the iPod and other apps at first, current multi tasking is a worse battery eater), next your wireless based connections be it wifi or bluetooth if you didn't close it will suck up power. Your screen brightness when you use it and how you use it will also matter. Then we have what applications you are going to be using and etc. A charge per day is normal. The iPod is mm's thick. IT is very hard to blame a device like that espeically when Apple's products are made to be "relatively" enviromentaly friendlier than they used to be.
> 
> Apple has this mentality. That's why their computers have unibody design and advanced energy management chips to regulate power and thus give Apple computers their 7+ Battery life on regular computers and 9 hours on their "Air's".


 
   

 Thanks Bowei, but I was being facetious...


----------



## MattTCG

LOL...but it was a very detailed and comprehensive explanation though!!


----------



## bowei006

It is hard to detect humour on forums sadly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So use Emoticons instead! Super Awesome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks, I had more in depth stuff I could have typed...but I had my main thread to attend and answer so I just gave a half answer and was getting my typing guns ready in case anybody want's to debate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  De-arming my typing guns.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It is hard to detect humour on forums sadly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 LOL. I need to learn to use the smilies more... [typing guns] that needs it's own smilie


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, please don't throw any cabbages, but does the e17 benefit/change with burn in?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, please don't throw any cabbages, but does the e17 benefit/change with burn in?


 
   
  It depends on what you believe in through reading or experience, If you think solid state devices need or require burn in. If you don't then it doesn't matter. IF you do then the review and other members say around 15 hours or less to lessen brightness or something. I have yet to play with enough device and I've had the e17 for too long so I don't remember pre burn in and post burn in(15 hour) sound.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, please don't throw any cabbages, but does the e17 benefit/change with burn in?


 
   

 If so I hope not much. I love how it sounds out of the computer comboed with the V-moda M-80. These two synergize well. For lack of a better term the music has a SNAP to it. You know what I mean? Very tight and detailed.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> If so I hope not much. I love how it sounds out of the computer comboed with the V-moda M-80. These two synergize well. For lack of a better term the music has a SNAP to it. You know what I mean? Very tight and detailed.


 
   
  I'll stop posting after this and go back to my support role(hehe)
   
  But to let you know, Vmoda is just about to introduce their own amp and DAC combo...but don't worry..it's priced in $600 range so don't worry.(from my sources that had beta access at a meet that Val attended.)


----------



## qohelet

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It depends on what you believe in through reading or experience, If you think solid state devices need or require burn in. If you don't then it doesn't matter. IF you do then the review and other members say around 15 hours or less to lessen brightness or something. I have yet to play with enough device and I've had the e17 for too long so I don't remember pre burn in and post burn in(15 hour) sound.


 
   
  I believe it does require a bit of a break/burn in. out of the box i found it to be too bright to my liking... played music with it the whole night then tried to listen to it again, the brightness lessened. i dont know why.. maybe it's just adjusting to my d5k.lol


----------



## qohelet

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I'll stop posting after this and go back to my support role(hehe)
> 
> But to let you know, Vmoda is just about to introduce their own amp and DAC combo...but don't worry..it's priced in $600 range so don't worry.(from my sources that had beta access at a meet that Val attended.)


 
   
  does anyone have a dac/amp/headphone combo? must be nice like having denon making their own dac/amp intended for their particular set of headphones


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





qohelet said:


> does anyone have a dac/amp/headphone combo? must be nice like having denon making their own dac/amp intended for their particular set of headphones


 
   
  Well this is a question so I guess Im comming back. 
   
  Does Denon make or have products that utilize amp's and DAC's for a more pleasurable listening experience?(although consumer) YES!
   
  They make a wide range of receivers with decent chips in it..
   
  anyway I know what your question is, to my knowledge the only companies that make full amp and DAC's and also headphones is:
  Fostex (oem for many headphones including Denon)
  Vmoda(now)
   
   
  Vmoda VAMP uses teh same OPAMP as teh E17 for those wondering, the AD8397


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I'll stop posting after this and go back to my support role(hehe)
> 
> But to let you know, Vmoda is just about to introduce their own amp and DAC combo...but don't worry..it's priced in $600 range so don't worry.(from my sources that had beta access at a meet that Val attended.)


 
   
  Yeah I've been loosely following the "vamp" thread. Sounds interesting.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, so the e17 is a touch bright to me out of the box. I've EQ'd it down to -4 and it sounds about right to me. I'll burn in over the weekend and adjust as needed. To me, the bass does seem to hit quite as hard as the e10. Anyone want to comment here?


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I'll stop posting after this and go back to my support role(hehe)
> 
> But to let you know, Vmoda is just about to introduce their own amp and DAC combo...but don't worry..it's priced in $600 range so don't worry.(from my sources that had beta access at a meet that Val attended.)


 
   
  I attended that meet, and i got to try out the Vamp. Stylistically, the Vamp is very sleek it fits the iPhone like a glove, and the vamp is designed specifically for the iPhone. If you guys haven’t seen it.... picture it looking like a custom molded case for the iPhone that makes the back of it about half an inch thicker.
   
  Val is an awesome guy so this is hard to say, but i was not impressed with the vamp at all. I turned up the volume as loud as it goes... didn’t seem to get much louder than the internal iPhone amp. It has an analogue control for volume and bass. Bass output is nowhere near the E17. 
   
  The vamp bypasses the iPhones internal Dac, but i couldn’t not notice a difference between the iPhone dac and his vamps. I did a/b comparison plugging it in and out of the vamp... i didn’t notice an overwhelming difference. To be fair i only used it for about 6 minutes, so i am sure if i spent more time with it i hear the difference in sound signature.
   
  To sum up the Vamp... The thing is the coolest looking dac/amp for iPhone. It fits is perfectly, i have pictures but i am not sure if i am supposed to post them. Lacking in bass and sounds output, and sound signature isn’t immediately discernable, unlike when you plug the E17 to iPhone or computer, you can HEAR the sound difference right away, even if you are new to audiophile stuff.
   
  I think this is still a prototype, and if he can improve it, this thing will be pretty cool.


----------



## MattTCG

Can someone help with setup on the e17. I'm wondering about setup for my music files. I play through foobar using the waspi plugin. My music collection is ripped to flac and I've connected the e17 through usb. The fiio reads only 48k 16 bit. What do I need to do to get the best sound?
   
  thanks...


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Can someone help with setup on the e17. I'm wondering about setup for my music files. I play through foobar using the waspi plugin. My music collection is ripped to flac and I've connected the e17 through usb. The fiio reads only 48k 16 bit. What do I need to do to get the best sound?
> 
> thanks...


 
   

 What OS are you running Matt? I have Win7 64. Playing my E17 now and it reads 24/96 on E17 readout. You have to set up win7 and foobar both to read 24/96.
  Oh also I just reread your post. Do you have any 24/96 flac files. The E17 wont upgrade your 16/48 flacs.


----------



## MattTCG

Maybe I need to learn more about ripping flac files. I used foobar to rip my cd's to flac. Why am I not getting 24/96? Please advise. I use W7 64 bit.
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## RingingEars

CDs are always going to be 16/48. The FLAC rip is a bit for bit transfer of the original and CDs are recorded 16/48(or 16/44). So you have to purchase hi-res files from somewhere like HD tracks.
  In Win go to control panel/hardware and sound/sound. Find the Fiio and switch it to 24/96.


----------



## MattTCG

Looking through foobar...if I edit the rip>choose output file format>output bit depth> and change this to 24 bit will that fix the issue?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> CDs are always going to be 16/48. The FLAC rip is a bit for bit transfer of the original and CDs are recorded 16/48(or 16/44). So you have to purchase hi-res files from somewhere like HD tracks.
> In Win go to control panel/hardware and sound/sound. Find the Fiio and switch it to 24/96.


 
   
  Okay, gotcha. Found properties and changed it to 24/96.
   
  thanks!!


----------



## RingingEars

You're welcome. Have fun...


----------



## bowei006

If none of your files are over 16bit/44.1KHz...then it doesn't matter. There technically won't be a difference. If you do have some then follow me...the spiritual E17 guide master to guide the lost souls of the FiiO dominion. Follow my sagely words and be....wowed!
   
  Windows desktop...from there go to your sound in the bottom right corner and then click "playback devices". If it isn't there type "sound" into the start menu search box and wait a second. Click what pops up and only if it says "sound" all the other stuff isn't it.
   
  Next do you see your E17? It should say E17 but sometimes it's a bit different. Anyway click it, then right click and then properties. Next see the tabs above? Go to "Supported Formats" then see the "Samples Rates" at the bottom. Choose everything from 96KHz and below(just check the boxes). Now go to the "advanced" tab. See the drop down menu? Drop it down and choose 96KHz 24bit. Now click Apply. Please note, unless you have a reason for "enchancements" it's best to turn them all off. Anyway, now click ok to finalize and exit it.
   
  Now open up foobar.. Hit ctrl+p to open the preferences menu. From there go to "advanced" from advaned see all the drop down boxes? Drop down the "decoding" box. Now see "Tone/sweep sample rate" click teh box to edit and type in "96000"* do not type *in "192000" as you are on USB, type it in if you are on S/PDIF with a S/PDIF out on the computer that supports 192KHz(you will know if the windows sound allows you to choose 192KHz) After that click apply. If it wants to restart, let it restart. Now, in the preferences menu again, go to "Playback", drop down the menu and go to "output" I will assume your "device" is already set to WASAPI and the E17 USB. Now see "Output Format"? Change that to 24bit.
   
  Now everything is set. Everytime you choose a higher bit rate song in foobar your E17 will switch. Please note 24bit output on current version of foobar is buggy. Sometimes with higher sample rate and bit rate songs, the song will not play or it will give you an error. To rectify that, go back to "Output Format" and change the bit rate to 16bit. Sometimes if a song doesn't play, scrub to a point in the song(random) and it should play. If it still doesn't play, choose another song and then go back.
   
  Windows has already been set, so iTunes is set and foobar is set or anything.
   
   
   
   
  THE SAGE HAS SPOKEN...SILENCE!! 
   
*NOW...let the complimentary and awesome upvoting of my post commence!!!(little button in the bottom right corner near "multi") I will solicit all your upvotes for personal gain on 'Head-Fi and use it to take over all of Head-Fi dom!!! Now..my minions!! Commence!!! Toute Suite!*


----------



## MattTCG

Dude you are hilarioius!!  Thanks though, seriously. Soon as I can get my wife off my pc, I will follow your sage advice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Is there any advantage to using an optical cable over my current usb connection?


----------



## bowei006

matttcg said:


> Dude you are hilarioius!!  Thanks though, seriously. Soon as I can get my wife off my pc, I will follow your sage advice.




*cough cough* The upvote hand button still has not been pressed. Please press before commencing following of my sagely instructions. It is the toll required.


----------



## hyogen

how long is the burn in period for the E17???
   
  i haven't been listening to too much music lately unfortunately.   I imagine there's less than 5 hours total of play time on it.................hopefully i haven't heard the best of the E17 yet!  that would be quite amazing for it to improve even more.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> how long is the burn in period for the E17???
> 
> i haven't been listening to too much music lately unfortunately.   I imagine there's less than 5 hours total of play time on it.................hopefully i haven't heard the best of the E17 yet!  that would be quite amazing for it to improve even more.


 
   
  It depends on if you believe solid state devices have burn in, or if they have burn in that is measureable by human hearing objectively and subjectively.
   
  The people that do say the burn in is 15 hours.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks.  I'll leave it running tonight and see what I think.  Headphones don't fall into the same solid-state category, right?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Thanks.  I'll leave it running tonight and see what I think.  Headphones don't fall into the same solid-state category, right?


 
   
  Umm.. Not really, solid state is used for components. Like a tube amp is not solid state. There are hybrids though, bascically companies can call it whatever :/
   
  Your iPod touch uses solid state NAND Flash storage. Older iPod classics and i think current one's use a Hard Disk Drive


----------



## UnityIsPower

Quote: 





bleether said:


> So i attended the L.A meet at the Village last Sunday, and i had the chance to listen to many of the top end headphones that are often talked about like the LCD-2, LCD3, Stax, D2000,D7000, K701.... list goes on and on. Long story short, acoustic guitars sound incredibly realistic on these setups. Words truly cannot give you a sense of what these rigs sound like unless you try them out for yourself.... i was completely blown away by the different headphone and amp combos.


 
   
  I see... well, I'm going to go cry at my special depression corner... brb


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, weirdness here. I'm just sitting at my computer rockin' out with some tunes and the e17 and the sound disappears. This used to happen with the e10, but just for a second...maybe two and then it would start right back up. So I do about everything you could think of...still no sound. So I take the e17 and plug it into my laptop and presto, sound. So it's a pc issue and possibly one caused by the fiio. Not sure.
   
  So now I get serious and put my computer guy hat on and start some serious trouble shooting (ironically I actually am The Computer Guy..matttcg). I start digging into drivers, the event viewer, using file mon to see if some nasty might have slipped through my firewall. Nothing. All the while I'm kinda perturbed cause I've been waiting all week with no amp. On a whim I run a quick system restore to 4/26/12 and whamo, I have sound again. I suspect this problem may crop back up. But I thought I'd post just in case anyone else has experienced similar with the e17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, weirdness here. I'm just sitting at my computer rockin' out with some tunes and the e17 and the sound disappears. This used to happen with the e10, but just for a second...maybe two and then it would start right back up. So I do about everything you could think of...still no sound. So I take the e17 and plug it into my laptop and presto, sound. So it's a pc issue and possibly one caused by the fiio. Not sure.
> 
> So now I get serious and put my computer guy hat on and start some serious trouble shooting (ironically I actually am The Computer Guy..matttcg). I start digging into drivers, the event viewer, using file mon to see if some nasty might have slipped through my firewall. Nothing. All the while I'm kinda perturbed cause I've been waiting all week with no amp. On a whim I run a quick system restore to 4/26/12 and whamo, I have sound again. I suspect this problem may crop back up. But I thought I'd post just in case anyone else has experienced similar with the e17.


 
   
  This happens to me..the sound disappears all of a sudden when I am listening. I am playing a game on the PC..and I get killed.. I look..and the device ran out of power. Just me.
   
  Keep it and see if future problems arise 
   
   
  Anyway.. MiccaStore ...has sold 600 units(of 5K units total of both batch 1 and 2)...and can't get enough of them. And now the current price of the e17 in the U.S with no add ons that micca gives you is $210...wow look at capitalism show it's flying colors!!
   
  If you guys have stuff to review, Amazon would be great to post stuff as well  But keep in mind that you should resolve your technical problems. There are too many reviews on Amazon about FiiO from users who have yet to resolve issues that are on their end.


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> If none of your files are over 16bit/44.1KHz...then it doesn't matter. There technically won't be a difference. If you do have some then follow me...the spiritual E17 guide master to guide the lost souls of the FiiO dominion. Follow my sagely words and be....wowed!
> 
> Windows desktop...from there go to your sound in the bottom right corner and then click "playback devices". If it isn't there type "sound" into the start menu search box and wait a second. Click what pops up and only if it says "sound" all the other stuff isn't it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  So what are the "encoded formats" thing for? can you please explain them?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





acenima said:


> So what are the "encoded formats" thing for? can you please explain them?


 
   
  You have upvoted my sagely post......
   
  My only guess is that this is for receivers and Windows will send a signal depending on if the receiver supports it..


----------



## RingingEars

HA!!! I FIGURED IT OUT!!! The sound I'm getting is wifi interference. Wifi on it's noisy as soon as I turned wifi off it went away, turned it on and it came right back. Man I'm so smart[pats self on back] Hmm I guess no Pandora on the touch while using the E17... Bummer.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> HA!!! I FIGURED IT OUT!!! The sound I'm getting is wifi interference. Wifi on it's noisy as soon as I turned wifi off it went away, turned it on and it came right back. Man I'm so smart[pats self on back] Hmm I guess no Pandora on the touch while using the E17... Bummer.


 
   
  You were on the touch....jeez. Well, I've posted many stuff in the thread on wifi intererene if the device is back to back.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You were on the touch....jeez. Well, I've posted many stuff in the thread on wifi intererene if the device is back to back.


 
   

 I'm one of those "gotta learn the hard way" kinda guys.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I know it's a long shot but would a cover on the touch lessen the noise?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> I'm one of those "gotta learn the hard way" kinda guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nope. Well a metal one that is...very thick might, but it will ruin wifi connection for you. Bascicially  it won't work 
   
  I use my iPhone as a phone and everything and touch as a pmp only.
   
  Take this to heart lurkers...if you hear something...it's probably you. Other examples of "problems" throughout the whole thread have also been shown. I only remember 2 out of...who knows how many problems actually be problems.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Nope. Well a metal one that is...very thick might, but it will ruin wifi connection for you. Bascicially  it won't work
> 
> I use my iPhone as a phone and everything and touch as a pmp only.
> 
> Take this to heart lurkers...if you hear something...it's probably you. Other examples of "problems" throughout the whole thread have also been shown. I only remember 2 out of...who knows how many problems actually be problems.


 
   

 Yeah. It's great news because I'm really liking this little DAC. Sounds quite a bit better than my Fubar2 MKII.


----------



## Bleether

I love using the Alpen with my iPhone, but i got sick of the rubber bands getting in the way of the screen. I decided to do a Velcro iMod on my Phone.
   
  Materials:
  Industrial Strength Sticky Velcro. $3.00
  Cheap iPhone molded case. $8.69
  Razor Blade. $0.00 i had some.
   
  This is the cheap carbon fiber looking case i bought with the Velcro stuck on.
   

   
  This is the back side of the Alpen. I left the rubber feet on, and i cut groves around the feet for the Velcro. I thought it would be cool to cut a little square for the Alpen logo. 
   

   
  Alpen attached to the case. ( no phone in it because i am using it to take the photos!)
   

   
  Side view of the Alpen attached to the case.
   

   
  I have already tested this out, in and out of my pocket, and it is very secure. I am loving the fact i left the rubber feet on it because when it is not attached to the case there enough room for it to rest on its little feet, but when it is attached to the case, the combined thickness of the two Velcros is enough to lift the feet off the phone case, thus making secure contact.
   
  I am loving this ! took me about 15 minutes to put together!


----------



## RingingEars

Nice. I used the low profile 3m Loc on my E7. I should get more for my E17. The bands are a pain.


----------



## Bleether

Ya, i hear ya. When i was using the bands, i had to constantly shift them up and down to access different parts of the screen, and often time it would skip a song, mess with the EQ, open apps, and just take up to much screen space. My phone feels so liberated now, and it looks so sleek that it sold one of my buddies on buying the E17's lol.


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You have upvoted my sagely post......
> 
> My only guess is that this is for receivers and Windows will send a signal depending on if the receiver supports it..


 
   
  So im guessing leaving the defualt checked won't affect anything negetively.


----------



## MattTCG

Nice velcro mod!! I'd consider doing something similar.


----------



## wilky61

Granted, I don't know why I would ever want to open up my E17, but I'm not so sure I like the idea of sticking the rubber feet on top of the screws on the back of the assembly...
   
  Myself, i attached the rubber feet diagonally inside of each of the four screws.
   
  Sweet mod, though. Glad you're liking it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





bleether said:


>


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bleether said:


> I love using the Alpen with my iPhone, but i got sick of the rubber bands getting in the way of the screen. I decided to do a Velcro iMod on my Phone.
> 
> Materials:
> Industrial Strength Sticky Velcro. $3.00
> ...


 
   
  VERY HELPFUL AND GREAT!


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Granted, I don't know why I would ever want to open up my E17, but I'm not so sure I like the idea of sticking the rubber feet on top of the screws on the back of the assembly...
> 
> Myself, i attached the rubber feet diagonally inside of each of the four screws.
> 
> Sweet mod, though. Glad you're liking it.


 
   

 I wouldn't go opening it up until it's out of warranty. That's usually an instant no more warranty.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> HA!!! I FIGURED IT OUT!!! The sound I'm getting is wifi interference. Wifi on it's noisy as soon as I turned wifi off it went away, turned it on and it came right back. Man I'm so smart[pats self on back] Hmm I guess no Pandora on the touch while using the E17... Bummer.


 
   
  Glad to hear that!


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> how long is the burn in period for the E17???
> 
> i haven't been listening to too much music lately unfortunately.   I imagine there's less than 5 hours total of play time on it.................hopefully i haven't heard the best of the E17 yet!  that would be quite amazing for it to improve even more.


 
   
  Some Chinese FiiO fans reported to us the treble become smoothly after 20 hours and it is quite noticeable.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





qohelet said:


> I believe it does require a bit of a break/burn in. out of the box i found it to be too bright to my liking... played music with it the whole night then tried to listen to it again, the brightness lessened. i dont know why.. maybe it's just adjusting to my d5k.lol


 
   
  There are two ELNA electrolytic capacitors between DAC and amp section, and burn in does help to make the capacitor work better , it is not a secret but it does not means every headphone amp need burn in because not every headphone amp includes electrolytic capacitors
   
  in the signal channels. and there are less effect to  tantalum capacitor


----------



## Zen21

hmm i've had my Fiio E17 for a week now and now it refuses to turn on.. the device gets recognized when I plug it in but it wont turn on or play music... this sucks!  I can see a faint red light from the power button when plugged in. It has been plugged in all along with auto charge so it can't of ran out of battery


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





zen21 said:


> hmm i've had my Fiio E17 for a week now and now it refuses to turn on.. the device gets recognized when I plug it in but it wont turn on or play music... this sucks!  I can see a faint red light from the power button when plugged in. It has been plugged in all along with auto charge so it can't of ran out of battery


 
   
  Not sure what happen to your ALPEN but seems the battery has problem  now, please contact the dealer to get replacement. or just keep charging it to see what happen .


----------



## Bleether

Thanks Matt 
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Nice velcro mod!! I'd consider doing something similar.


 
   
   
  Were you concerned about them falling off or something? The adhesive seemed a little sketchy at first, but after 24 hrs it sets pretty good.
  Good idea about screwing them in. I am afraid of voiding the warranty if i open mine up.
  Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Granted, I don't know why I would ever want to open up my E17, but I'm not so sure I like the idea of sticking the rubber feet on top of the screws on the back of the assembly...
> 
> Myself, i attached the rubber feet diagonally inside of each of the four screws.
> 
> Sweet mod, though. Glad you're liking it.


 
   
   
  Glad you liked Feiao!
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> VERY HELPFUL AND GREAT!


----------



## Stonez

Quote: 





stonez said:


> My order for my E17 went in to MP4 nation on 03/31, mailed out on 4/10, dispatched overseas to Miami, Fl. 4/16.
> 
> I live in North Metro Atlanta.  Does anyone have any idea how much longer I should be waiting for my gear to arrive as I'm getting a little frustrated...?


 
   
  Still waiting for mine to arrive from MP4Nation.  I really hope it's worth the wait, as I could have bought this from Micca a few days later and had it here in less than a week.  Is there any way to work out what has happened to it? I can't get the tracking number to work within the US.


----------



## wilky61

Maybe I did a bad job explaining how/where I attached my little rubber feet; I have uploaded a photo to show what I meant:
   

   
  Quote: 





bleether said:


> Thanks Matt
> 
> 
> Were you concerned about them falling off or something? The adhesive seemed a little sketchy at first, but after 24 hrs it sets pretty good.
> ...


 
   
   
  Greetings from Lawrenceville. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am sorry to hear that you purchased from MP4Nation; I decided to pay the few extra dollars to order mine from MiccaStore and was extremely pleased with the service/speed I received. I hope you receive your device sooner rather than later; I love mine!
   
  Also, I noticed that this device has shot up to $210 at Amazon and has gone out-of-stock at MP4Nation/MiccaStore/etc (temporarily, I expect). Jeez. Maybe FiiO is having a difficult time cranking out batches of these little wonders quick enough to meet the demand.
   
  Quote: 





stonez said:


> Still waiting for mine to arrive from MP4Nation.  I really hope it's worth the wait, as I could have bought this from Micca a few days later and had it here in less than a week.  Is there any way to work out what has happened to it? I can't get the tracking number to work within the US.


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





stonez said:


> Still waiting for mine to arrive from MP4Nation.  I really hope it's worth the wait, as I could have bought this from Micca a few days later and had it here in less than a week.  Is there any way to work out what has happened to it? I can't get the tracking number to work within the US.


 
   

 Have you tried plugging the tracking number in the usps tracker?  The postal service has HORRIBLE shipping service. I ordered my Alpen from mp4nation, and it arrived in the US pretty quick. It was sitting in L.A for 4 days.... i was like ok no big deal i live here in California so it will arrive in a day when they sort it all out. Well they decided to ship my device all the way to Kentucky, then up to Pennsylvania, and then finally back to California. It made no sense to me. It took a total of about7-8 days to get to me when it was already here in the us.


----------



## Bleether

Ahh i see. Ya i played around with the positioning of the feet before i settled on over the screws. Personally i find the screw holes tacky, so the feet over them looked pretty sweet to me.
  Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Maybe I did a bad job explaining how/where I attached my little rubber feet; I have uploaded a photo to show what I meant:


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bleether said:


> Ahh i see. Ya i played around with the positioning of the feet before i settled on over the screws. Personally i find the screw holes tacky, so the feet over them looked pretty sweet to me.


 
   
  I placed the feet over the holes too...big mistake, they slip off the edges with continuous use.
   
   
  FiiO, where can we get replacement screen protector and feet from?
   
  The feet may be availble elsewhere as it's kinda standard...but the screen protetor isnt.


----------



## Stonez

By Jupiter's ******!  Guess what just arrived at the front door!
   
   
  
   
  Plus Brainwaves Beta's and an L9 I never ordered!!!!  Win!
   
  Will post pix of the unboxing later.


----------



## Bleether

If mine ever fall off im gonna replace them with these sweet ones i seen at home depot, they have a peg type design that will fit into the screw hole and its also backed with some adhesive. you can find them for less than a dollar in different color. I would just stick with black though.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I placed the feet over the holes too...big mistake, they slip off the edges with continuous use.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stonez said:


> By Jupiter's ******!  Guess what just arrived at the front door!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmm? Did you choose fedex delivery or Brainwavez? The L9 is a suprise though, so you got $35 worth of extra material :/ I still got a good deal. PL11's are fantastic.


----------



## qohelet

zen21 said:


> hmm i've had my Fiio E17 for a week now and now it refuses to turn on.. the device gets recognized when I plug it in but it wont turn on or play music... this sucks!  I can see a faint red light from the power button when plugged in. It has been plugged in all along with auto charge so it can't of ran out of battery




Try resetting it. It might help.


----------



## Stonez

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Hmm? Did you choose fedex delivery or Brainwavez? The L9 is a suprise though, so you got $35 worth of extra material :/ I still got a good deal. PL11's are fantastic.


 
   
  I checked my order again, and I got standard shipping and the Free Brainwavz beta.  The L9 was in the package too.
   
   


   
  Gotta say the Alpen looks great and I cannot wait to try her out.  Have her charging right now.


----------



## bowei006

So you bought the L9 too or it came for free?>
   
   
   
  Anyway,
*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:*
  People don't seem to realize something. *You can use the E17 Alpen while it is charging*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 Unbelievable right?
  Lithium Ion batteries aren't like those crappy old batteries, some say partial charges are good anyway, whatever it is and if it does take a hit...the hit is so small..you can't even tell..just use it. guys.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  @STONEZ
   

   
  Think you can* one up *me ehh??? WELL TOO BAD!!
   

   
  I took my OWN ASUS monitor, and my own lighter, plastic wrap, Alpen, case, and pack of stuff and took a better pic!!! Heck yeah!! I even put my fingers in the reflection of the Alpen screen just for you 
   
  Vote for my pic!! Tis better than Stonez...
   
*Thought you can one up me ehh Stonez!!! Ain't gonna happen!!*


----------



## Tilpo

Expertly done, bowei.

You forgot to add the fact that they are both Bic lighters, the desks are both wood (or have a wood print at least)

You did forget to put the 'hold' switch down, though.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Expertly done, bowei.
> You forgot to add the fact that they are both Bic lighters, the desks are both wood (or have a wood print at least)
> You did forget to put the 'hold' switch down, though.


 
   
  Hahah! Yeah I had wood as well 
   
  .....crap!!!  I should have noticed. Anyway, back to our member thread, we don't want this thread turning into the iBasso thread full of regular discussion now do we.


----------



## Stonez

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> So you bought the L9 too or it came for free?>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  [size=medium](✌ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞​[/size]


----------



## yungyaw

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> When connected to PC/Laptop through the USB, some problem about the SQ may cause by the PC/Laptop because the OS are running lots of task so the USB data stream may have problem to sending the data correctly. it will be better to try your ALPEN in other PC to see whether the problem still there.


 
   
  Thanks for the feedback @feiao. Now my E17 is working fine. It only happened once and a restart of my laptop solved the problem. I'm loving the E17 very much! Thank you for making great products and taking time to listen to users feedback. Well done!


----------



## MattTCG

Getting used to all the e17 features and got to say that for the money it's very nice. I'm using a pair of d2k and he400 and it does both of these headphones justice across the sound signature. I bump the gain up a notch with the he400 and that's all it needs. Bass +2 Treble -2=perfection for both hp's. 
   
  Does it make any difference to use the optical cable instead of usb?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Getting used to all the e17 features and got to say that for the money it's very nice. I'm using a pair of d2k and he400 and it does both of these headphones justice across the sound signature. I bump the gain up a notch with the he400 and that's all it needs. Bass +2 Treble -2=perfection for both hp's.
> 
> Does it make any difference to use the optical cable instead of usb?


 
   
  I already went over it. Only if you have tracks higher than 96KHz/24bit...do you?
   
  That is more of a niche feature thrown in for the super audiophiles. 
   
   
  If you do have songs that are superbly perfect vinyl's from the ole days or from HDtracks(or equivalent)...then yes..go out and get yourself a nice $20 optical cable ...other than that...you don't need it. It's truly a niche feature to sate any super audiophile's that want a backup device that can truly do what their other hardware does.
   
  I connect it to my hefty optical cable..because it's cooler that way. Which is what half of us are doing


----------



## wilky61

I usually listen to 16/44.1 lossless (occasionally 24/96) from my laptop to my E17 to my AKG Q701.

I have seen people mention Monoprice interconnects before. I'm wondering if you guys think it's worth $3 to pick up a 1.5-ft, gold-plated, ferrite core USB cable from Monoprice vs. the stock 3-ft non-gold-plated USB cable that came with the E17? (AFAIK, I haven't experienced any problems with the stock cable or anything.)

I'm thinking it obviously wouldn't be worth it to buy one of those super-expensive USB cables with my setup, but $3 is hardly anything. What would y'all say?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I placed the feet over the holes too...big mistake, they slip off the edges with continuous use.
> 
> 
> FiiO, where can we get replacement screen protector and feet from?
> ...


 
   
  From next batch, we will put 2 screen protector inside the box, and the only place to buy extra silicon band, protector is from us directly by it may cost too much to ship it. 
   
  Anyway, do you have any advice about how to solve this problem, maybe we should ask some online B2C shop to help us sell anything we have.


----------



## metaldood

Which store has e17 in stock at the regular ~$140 price? Amazon jacked up the prices last week.


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





metaldood said:


> Which store has e17 in stock at the regular ~$140 price? Amazon jacked up the prices last week.


 
   

 Head Direct still has them. MP4 nation is currently out of stock, but I assume they will have them sooner or later...


----------



## metaldood

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> Head Direct still has them. MP4 nation is currently out of stock, but I assume they will have them sooner or later...


 
   
  Thank you. I will buy from them asap.


----------



## JamesFiiO

The ETA of next batch of ALPEN will delay to the end of June because we can not get one volume control IC from JRC on time, please take care about the stocked otherwise you have to wait a long time. very sorry for that.


----------



## beaver316

Just wanted to mention how awesome this little device is! I have a pair of Sennheiser IE80 iems which i use for serious listening and an older pair of Sennheiser HD280 pro closed headphones which are known for their lack of bass and treble. The IE80 doesnt need any equalizer manipulations but the HD280 pro really benefit from the bass and treble settings. When turning up the bass it really adds that punch. Check Youtube for the song "Calm Down" by Emma Hewitt and Cosmic Gate, the bass really hits you. But the biggest benefit is the treble setting. By default with these headphones vocals are really veiled and sound kind of distant, but setting the treble to +4 or +6 and they become much more pronounced. 
   
  This little dac/amp is making me love my Hd280s all over again


----------



## hyogen

enjoyed the song.  check out my sig for more great trance hits


----------



## MattTCG

I'm also enjoying the EQ. I don't normally tweak the EQ at all and just listen flat but some minor shifts in treble bass and gain have put me right in the "sweet spot."


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Just wanted to mention how awesome this little device is! I have a pair of Sennheiser IE80 iems which i use for serious listening and an older pair of Sennheiser HD280 pro closed headphones which are known for their lack of bass and treble. The IE80 doesnt need any equalizer manipulations but the HD280 pro really benefit from the bass and treble settings. When turning up the bass it really adds that punch. Check Youtube for the song "Calm Down" by Emma Hewitt and Cosmic Gate, the bass really hits you. But the biggest benefit is the treble setting. By default with these headphones vocals are really veiled and sound kind of distant, but setting the treble to +4 or +6 and they become much more pronounced.
> 
> This little dac/amp is making me love my Hd280s all over again


 
   
  It seems the hardware EQ is a smart decision in ALPEN, at the beginning I am worry about that you guys will said ALPEN is not so good because audiophile never used EQ.


----------



## wilky61

The bass/treble/balance EQ is one of the things that led me to purchase the E17 as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  The E17 is very versatile for such a portable device.
   
   
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> It seems the hardware EQ is a smart decision in ALPEN, at the beginning I am worry about that you guys will said ALPEN is not so good because audiophile never used EQ.


----------



## bowei006

Just like allowing control of volume this time around and EQ. If you want to be a biasd head fier then go ahead and do your "audiophiles dont" speech. I for one welcome FiiO's universal device.

As for plastic feet and extra screen protectors maybe sending a hundred or more to mo4nation or dealextreme will do. I would like micca to have it but $7 shipping for that isnt worth it. $2 total from china however is. I dont like mo4nation or dealextremes service but that seems to be the easiest as their shipping is cheap.

Would you guys be able to make a ebay account to sell them? 

Any news on the E19? Or no early details for us yet. I am quite excited to maybe get an E19 depending on price to performance to price ratio


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Just like allowing control of volume this time around and EQ. If you want to be a biasd head fier then go ahead and do your "audiophiles dont" speech. I for one welcome FiiO's universal device.
> As for plastic feet and extra screen protectors maybe sending a hundred or more to mo4nation or dealextreme will do. I would like micca to have it but $7 shipping for that isnt worth it. $2 total from china however is. I dont like mo4nation or dealextremes service but that seems to be the easiest as their shipping is cheap.
> Would you guys be able to make a ebay account to sell them?
> *Any news on the E19?* Or no early details for us yet. I am quite excited to maybe get an E19 depending on price to performance to price ratio


 
   
  E19? What's up with that?


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> E19? What's up with that?


 
   
   
  There are rumors that an updated E9 (the E19) will be released sometime by the end of this year. It will be like the upgrade from E7 to E17.


----------



## bowei006

Im going to guess they are following a build up strategy. Of pricing the E19 twice the E9 like the E17 and not a full price bracket succesor. So it means they will have an updated even higher quality product and if you dont have the money then you still have the choice of E7/E9. Its a strategy that works 

$200 MSRB.... Hmm if that is the price then I will need to debate it and FiiO will too as many popualr devices come in at that range namely the ever popualar TubeMagic D1. But if FiiO follows traditional strategy of better performance than nearby price competitors then I will .... Hope the E19 will be a better amp sonically the the D1 an other amos or desktop amp and dac combos of that range. Which does make one excited. But FiiO will need to be fully aware of their competitors at the $200 price range IF they do price the E19 as a upgraded succesor like the E17. As the $200 desktop category is fierce.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Im going to guess they are following a build up strategy. Of pricing the E19 twice the E9 like the E17 and not a full price bracket succesor. So it means they will have an updated even higher quality product and if you dont have the money then you still have the choice of E7/E9. Its a strategy that works
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, there are so many competitor who made desktop dac/amp, includes some famous traditional Hi Fi brand. I think we have the ability to compete with them, but there are something still under considering.
   
  1, Does FiiO already regarded as a brand who focus on portable device? it is interesting that sometime you want to let your customer thing you are something, but finally you find they thing you are something else. it is about the brand image.
   
  2,  I think the western consumer will not judge the SQ by price, as you all know, we are making something which few had done in the past. before FiiO, there are very very few brand can provide decent headphone amp in affordable price. so it will
   
      be more acceptable because we have not competitor in most time, but when we go into $200+ market, thing may different.
   
  Anyway, I am not worry about it because I am here listening to you and ready to accept any advice and like to make your dream come true.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> There are rumors that an updated E9 (the E19) will be released sometime by the end of this year. It will be like the upgrade from E7 to E17.


 
   
   
  Yes, there are an higher class DAC+AMP called E15 on our road map, but we may change our schedule because it also depend on the schedule of the new IC from our supplier, currently there are not too many option for 192K/24BIT USB or 384K/24BIT , and I found user
   
  did meet some problems about the compatibility about it , not matter the solution is based on XMOS or TN8022 or other solutions. And FiiO will not release such product because it will hurt our brand.


----------



## Tilpo

jamesfiio said:


> 1, Does FiiO already regarded as a brand who focus on portable device? it is interesting that sometime you want to let your customer thing you are something, but finally you find they thing you are something else. it is about the brand image.




I think at least on Head-Fi FiiO is regarded as a brand who offers a very high price/performance ratio.

I don't think everyone associates you with portable devices per se, though. Many people know you for your budget class amplifiers and DAC's, which are often used in desktop setups.


----------



## wilky61

I don't really think of FiiO as a brand that focuses on portable devices. Instead, I think of FiiO as a brand that focuses on entry-level devices (and I don't mean this in a bad way, either). FiiO's greatest advantage is that they offer quality products at affordable prices for people with smaller budgets (like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). This is an important consumer niche, and I'm glad FiiO occupies it.
   
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> 1, Does FiiO already regarded as a brand who focus on portable device? it is interesting that sometime you want to let your customer thing you are something, but finally you find they thing you are something else. it is about the brand image.


----------



## bowei006

A dream come true for me would be a well priced pmp. I know you guys stopped development due to lack of enginers, resources, expertise and what not but NO company has yet to deliver the true audio affordable device most want. The T51 is what i am talking about. A device that has a good not so buggy UI, expandable SDHC memory, internal memory, headphone and high quality line out, strong build quality, Flac/alac/wav/aiff and traditional lossy format aupport. And a build design that is ergonomically and external amp friendly (passive velcro? Attaching ext amps with bands will obstruct screen but if screen is small...) and at $250-$300 range. Build must be strong and easy to organize and put songs on.  good amp and dac also of course 

FIIO is in my opinion currently regarded as the godsend for new head fiers that is currently has a lot of portable devices. But the E10 and E9 still back the desktop perception. IMO fiio doesnt have a full portable brand image as of right now. The popularity of the E10/E9 has insured this. But if you prioritize one over the other in the future that may change. Currently Vmoda is trying to rework their kmage with the vamp as well.

But yes, if you are following the build up layer strategy then I hope the E19 is a sucess. There have been many quality control issues with E9/10 but i seems you guys have gotten good at quality control and gaining new high quality partners.

Fiio has done amazing stuff that many companies didnt do for whatever reason. You guys were actually what led me into headphone audio  i First got my headphone.... And then my very first E5  That was an exciting day 

You arent a retail company so most of us dont know much about you like employees and resources but I see much ambition. A guitar amp is in the works... And I hope the E19 currently is 

If you have resources and think you have what it takes then I would love to see a new pmp/dap from you guys. It doesnt need flashy UI like cowon. Something like the T51 but much more refined would work  i would have bought an T51 if not for quality and bug problems which you should lookfor too. A bad UI that a user doesnt like can easily kill a product. And thenthere is the fact that with so much expanding, more profits, more devices especially if you do make a pmp. Support also needs to be raised.

One of your weaknpoints compared to these regular audiophile manufacturers is support and people. I dont know any numbers but of course you guys have sold more units than Schiit per year basis as they are more specialized and you guys cater to a lot of people. These regular companies are all europe or american based and have good support in case something happens. Your current system of first go to buyer and then i not we will help is ok right now but with more products will be a huge con for you guys. Hearing people say "i don want to return as its in china and will take too long," or "cant contact" is a major deal breaker for many. With more products you should be looking at increasing your support level if possible. Maybe a US and EU building? If you stop and just continue as is in the current market and play it safe you wont really need to as you will be keeping small. But otherwise i would really like to see better support options.

This is actually a good thing. But a way to make more devices. You have sold many E17/ and what not and cant keep up. I have seen some users buy another device as they dont want to wait for mp4nation or you guys take too long to make it. 

Im not too sure on this one but maybe start qualifying dealers? As you have seen, a dealers support, speed and what not reflects on your brand sadly. Mp4nation is extremely beneficial to you as a company, but it has lessened your brand image in my opinion. Qualifying good dealers like micca would be nice but again i am not sure.

Mp4nation has come a few times to explain their troubles here, an i understand, but it still stands that they have caused some trouble and cant keep up at times. 




All of this is my opinion as a close follower of Fiio


----------



## beaver316

Firstly wanted to say big up to bowei for your awesome tutorial on getting 96/24 set up in foobar. But it has led to another problem.
   
  For those who use Foobar2000 and the WASAPI plugin, do you find that you cant have two programs that play audio running at the same time? For example if im using foobar to play a song, and then open a video in Youtube, it wont play through the E17, but rather through my laptops loudspeakers. I understand that's how WASAPI works, it requests exclusive use of the sound driver so that there's no interruption to the signal (or something like that). You'll have to stop (not pause) the song in foobar or close the application in order for the youtube sound to play through your E17.
   
  This affects me because i like to sometimes play a music video file muted and the corresponding flac file for the video at the same time, so i can experience the awesome sound quality and at the same time enjoy the music video. But with WASAPI i can't do this. Is it worth using this plugin..i.e is the sound improvement through using wasapi that audible over the default windows option?


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Firstly wanted to say big up to bowei for your awesome tutorial on getting 96/24 set up in foobar. But it has led to another problem.
> 
> For those who use Foobar2000 and the WASAPI plugin, do you find that you cant have two programs that play audio running at the same time? For example if im using foobar to play a song, and then open a video in Youtube, it wont play through the E17, but rather through my laptops loudspeakers. I understand that's how WASAPI works, it requests exclusive use of the sound driver so that there's no interruption to the signal (or something like that). You'll have to stop (not pause) the song in foobar or close the application in order for the youtube sound to play through your E17.
> 
> This affects me because i like to sometimes play a music video file muted and the corresponding flac file for the video at the same time, so i can experience the awesome sound quality and at the same time enjoy the music video. But with WASAPI i can't do this. Is it worth using this plugin..i.e is the sound improvement through using wasapi that audible over the default windows option?


 
   

 If you are going to mute the music video (on Youtube), then you won't hear it from your laptop speakers. The FLAC file that is playing through Foobar will still play through the E17. I don't see what the problem is.
   
  Alternatively, you could just set your default playback device to the E17 only, and then everything will play through it.


----------



## bowei006

Hahaha i almost stopped because of that problem. This trick works 80% of the time. The rest of the times you have to close the entire browser and re open. First make sure windows regular sound options is set to E17 if you want vids to play through e17. Now right before you want to do youtube. Press the stop button in foobar. Stop, no pause. Then click the video. It should now play through your headphones 

I actually l prefer that i have youtube and general sound through my speakers 80% of the time as its low quality and i can listen to foobar and use my speakers  but sometimes i want e17 with windows so i have to stop foobar. Change windows sound properties an then try the video. If it doesnt work inrefresh the video and it usually works then. If it doesnt you usually have to close all browser pages(sucks)





FiiO is solicitng ideas right now. What do you guys think of my long post? Support or changes or disagreements wold help Fiio make a great device we like  help out. The more peoeple that comment the more they would mnow what to focus on


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> If you are going to mute the music video (on Youtube), then you won't hear it from your laptop speakers. The FLAC file that is playing through Foobar will still play through the E17. I don't see what the problem is.
> 
> Alternatively, you could just set your default playback device to the E17 only, and then everything will play through it.


 
   
  You misunderstood my post. If i play a file in foobar first and then pause it (not stop), then open any other program that plays audio like the browser for youtube or a video file, the audio will not play through the FiiO E17, but rather through my loudspeakers. In other words audio from more than one program cannot play through the E17 at the same time when using the wasapi plugin.
   
  The other scenario that i brought up regarding the music video file and the flac file applies here too. Imagine i open a video file, the audio will play through the E17. Then i proceed to mute it so i can open foobar and play the flac file for that music video. It wont play the sound because the video program (Windows Media Player Classic in this case) has exclusive access to the E17 sound driver. Instead the flac file's audio will play through my laptop's loudspeaker.
   
  I already have the E17 set as the default audio device. If i disable the laptop's loudspeaker in Playback devices then i just get no sound at all. I've read this is a general problem with the WASAPi plugin.


----------



## wilky61

Can one of you guys link me? I just want to make sure I have everything configured correctly. 
   
  Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Firstly wanted to say big up to bowei for your awesome tutorial on getting 96/24 set up in foobar. But it has led to another problem.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> A dream come true for me would be a well priced pmp. I know you guys stopped development due to lack of enginers, resources, expertise and what not but NO company has yet to deliver the true audio affordable device most want. The T51 is what i am talking about. A device that has a good not so buggy UI, expandable SDHC memory, internal memory, headphone and high quality line out, strong build quality, Flac/alac/wav/aiff and traditional lossy format aupport. And a build design that is ergonomically and external amp friendly (passive velcro? Attaching ext amps with bands will obstruct screen but if screen is small...) and at $250-$300 range. Build must be strong and easy to organize and put songs on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, actually we are trying to improve the quality, not only the products itself, but also the service.
   
  1, We already ask our agents to provide better service to the end customer  by  signed agent agreement with most of our agent so they have to do that otherwise they will lost the right to sell our products,
   
  2, We replied every email which send to market@fiio.com.cn, in the past, most is done by myself, but now we have 3 staff to help me to do that. I know it is impossible for even some big and famous company to do that but we will do that .
   
  3, In some regions, we will sign a sole distributor so they can help us a lots to provide better local warranty. because some may not have the skill to write in English.
   
  4, Also one staff called Irene will help me record all the feedback in  head-fi in case I can not do that on time because I have to focus on manage the whole company cause we have about 90 staffs , includes 20 engineers. but I will still try my
   
     best to talk with you guy in head-fi directly.
   
  About the Hi Fi DAP or PMP, it is another story, we have to give up but it is not the time to restart it right now.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Hahaha i almost stopped because of that problem. This trick works 80% of the time. The rest of the times you have to close the entire browser and re open. First make sure windows regular sound options is set to E17 if you want vids to play through e17. Now right before you want to do youtube. Press the stop button in foobar. Stop, no pause. Then click the video. It should now play through your headphones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah the trick is to press stop in foobar not pause. It's a little annoying, but as far as i can tell there's no way around having two applications that request use of the audio driver at the same time. Only one will work, the first one you run.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Can one of you guys link me? I just want to make sure I have everything configured correctly.


 
   
  It's on page 208  You'll need to download and install the WASAPI plugin from the net to get everything set up though.


----------



## bowei006

wilky61 said:


> Can one of you guys link me? I just want to make sure I have everything configured correctly.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...




http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3105#post_8341120

The bolded part of self loving and awesome is all that matters. The non bolded parts will answer your question



@Feiao

Thanks for the reply. Good tht you have this down!

I feel bad for Irene. Following all our posts


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





> @Feiao
> Thanks for the reply. Good tht you have this down!
> I feel bad for Irene. Following all our posts


 
   
  Irene is a very beautiful and smart girl, she will hit your head by a big hammer like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
   
  anyway, she is just collect all the feedback and report to me and R/D, QC department.


----------



## bowei006

I can just imagine how much time she spends each day reading this thread and other threads on E17 and other devices each day.

Great to know so many of you at FiiO speak English.

I am very curious, but are you allowed to give out info on how many total employees fiio has?

Plus, whats with the baby pic ?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I can just imagine how much time she spends each day reading this thread and other threads on E17 and other devices each day.
> Great to know so many of you at FiiO speak English.
> I am very curious, but are you allowed to give out info on how many total employees fiio has?
> Plus, whats with the baby pic ?


 
   
  Although I already replied but again, we have about 90 staffs includes 20 engineers and 50 workers. the baby pic is my little son, he is 2 years old now. lol


----------



## MattTCG

For me, I'd love to see something very similar to the e17 with a pmp integrated. That would be end game for me. Maybe slightly larger oled. Say about 120GB. Must support flac, alac and others. That would be an incredible device.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> For me, I'd love to see something very similar to the e17 with a pmp integrated. That would be end game for me. Maybe slightly larger oled. Say about 120GB. Must support flac, alac and others. That would be an incredible device.


 
   
  Agreed, that would be awesome.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> For me, I'd love to see something very similar to the e17 with a pmp integrated. That would be end game for me. Maybe slightly larger oled. Say about 120GB. Must support flac, alac and others. That would be an incredible device.


 
  ...E17 sound.....larger OLED?.....support for up to 120Gib......would cost hundreds. The E17 itself already costs $150-$210 USD, adding a largerly better quality OLED display(because this one doesn't have a powerful refresh rate or colors" and support for insane amounts of storage would put this up against HifiMan's and others.....espeically iBasso's new one.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Although I already replied but again, we have about 90 staffs includes 20 engineers and 50 workers. the baby pic is my little son, he is 2 years old now. lol


 
   
  Sorry Feiao. I can't possibly remember every post...although I do remember most. Wow that is quite a lot of employees. I know many that have like 5 
   
   
  Gorgeous son!


----------



## Tilpo

matttcg said:


> For me, I'd love to see something very similar to the e17 with a pmp integrated. That would be end game for me. Maybe slightly larger oled. Say about 120GB. Must support flac, alac and others. That would be an incredible device.




I have longed for such a device for years, even before coming to this forum. 

My phone with 80GB storage (it has a 64GB microSD) comes closest, but it has mediocre sound quality and a jack that only works with thin plugs. And I don't mean 3.5mm instead of 6.3mm, I mean 3.5mm plugs that are thinner than most. Otherwise the left channel (tip of plug) doesn't reach all the way down.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> I have longed for such a device for years, even before coming to this forum.
> My phone with 80GB storage (it has a 64GB microSD) comes closest, but it has mediocre sound quality and a jack that only works with thin plugs. And I don't mean 3.5mm instead of 6.3mm, I mean 3.5mm plugs that are thinner than most. Otherwise the left channel (tip of plug) doesn't reach all the way down.


 
   
  Yeah, it's always this or that. Never everything. I would have jumped onto the T51 if not for the plethora of issues it had. 20 engineers is all FiiO has though. Not nearly enough to be working on a guitar amp, E19 and whatever other secret projects they have..along with a fully functional awesome DAP...it's just not possible with 20 engineers.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Yeah, it's always this or that. Never everything. I would have jumped onto the T51 if not for the plethora of issues it had. 20 engineers is all FiiO has though. Not nearly enough to be working on a guitar amp, E19 and whatever other secret projects they have..along with a fully functional awesome DAP...it's just not possible with 20 engineers.




What's this about a FiiO guitar amp you've been talking about. 

I don't go outside my regular threads very often so I'm slow to pic up on news.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> What's this about a FiiO guitar amp you've been talking about.
> I don't go outside my regular threads very often so I'm slow to pic up on news.


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/2250#post_8251640
   
   
   


> BTW, we will release our first guitar headphone amp after 4 months.


 
   
  I do both, regular thread and outisde thread


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/2250#post_8251640
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I see, a guitar headphone amp.

Usually what people mean with 'guitar amp' is one with a built-in speaker. It just struck me as weird, since they are usually quite large units, and FiiO tends to specialize in, well.. small things.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, mayday here!! First, please see the post I made yesterday:
   
   
 *Okay, weirdness here. I'm just sitting at my computer rockin' out with some tunes and the e17 and the sound disappears. This used to happen with the e10, but just for a second...maybe two and then it would start right back up. So I do about everything you could think of...still no sound. So I take the e17 and plug it into my laptop and presto, sound. So it's a pc issue and possibly one caused by the fiio. Not sure.*
  
 *So now I get serious and put my computer guy hat on and start some serious trouble shooting (ironically I actually am The Computer Guy..matttcg). I start digging into drivers, the event viewer, using file mon to see if some nasty might have slipped through my firewall. Nothing. All the while I'm kinda perturbed cause I've been waiting all week with no amp. On a whim I run a quick system restore to 4/26/12 and whamo, I have sound again. I suspect this problem may crop back up. But I thought I'd post just in case anyone else has experienced similar with the e1*
  
 Now the same thing has happened again. I have never had a sound problem with my pc on several different amps and dacs, including the e10. This is a *major* issue. The problem is I don't really know where the issue is coming from. Is it from the e17 itself? Or is it indirectly caused by it? It's just too coincidental that I had no issues until I got the e17. 
  
 Help!!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, mayday here!! First, please see the post I made yesterday:
> 
> 
> *Okay, weirdness here. I'm just sitting at my computer rockin' out with some tunes and the e17 and the sound disappears. This used to happen with the e10, but just for a second...maybe two and then it would start right back up. So I do about everything you could think of...still no sound. So I take the e17 and plug it into my laptop and presto, sound. So it's a pc issue and possibly one caused by the fiio. Not sure.*
> ...


 
   
  You have to now test your E17 with a dfiferent computer for an extended period of time...say one week. Only way to tell if you have exhausted everything.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, more information. If I'm posting in the wrong forum feel free to redirect me. 
   
  If I plug headphones into the pc's onboard sound and change playback device back to onboard, then I get sound. So it has to be something with the e17 and or foobar?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, more information. If I'm posting in the wrong forum feel free to redirect me.
> 
> If I plug headphones into the pc's onboard sound and change playback device back to onboard, then I get sound. So it has to be something with the e17 and or foobar?


 
   
  Not necessarily. It could also mean that your PC itself or OS or program or combo of things is causing an error with the E17.
   
  Does plugging it back into the E17 with correct settings work right now?
   
  What about not using WASAPI in foobar and using regular default sound with E17 selected in windows sound?


----------



## wilky61

Ah, thank you so much for this. IMO, you probably should provide a link to this very helpful information in your signature...
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3105#post_8341120
> The bolded part of self loving and awesome is all that matters. The non bolded parts will answer your question


----------



## MattTCG

Still no sound after changing playback device with correct settings. I have used other media players and there is no sound either. So it's not a foobar or waspi issue as the others players are different in those regards. Has the be the e17-maybe some kind of weird usb issue or the cable itself. Tried another usb port on a different bridge of the mobo...restart and still nothing. Gonna try to go to optical and see if that helps.
   
  Thanks bowei!! Any other suggestions?


----------



## beaver316

I've made a decision, im not going to use the wasapi plugin. It's annoyances outweigh it's benefits for me.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I've made a decision, im not going to use the wasapi plugin. It's annoyances outweigh it's benefits for me.


 
  Whatever you choose man  I don't like all the pings and other stuff. Plus WASAPI does have a point of not adding low quality stream, jitter and other stuff from teh standard stream in. I have not tested default sound and WASAPI yet...and I don't have the time to do it. I can tell the difference between 320kbps vs lossless and that took 1.5hours.. I won't be sitting here for 3 hours doing that with an even higher difficulty
   
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Still no sound after changing playback device with correct settings. I have used other media players and there is no sound either. So it's not a foobar or waspi issue as the others players are different in those regards. Has the be the e17-maybe some kind of weird usb issue or the cable itself. Tried another usb port on a different bridge of the mobo...restart and still nothing. Gonna try to go to optical and see if that helps.
> 
> Thanks bowei!! Any other suggestions?


 
   
  Yeah try the optical. 
   
  My suggestion with the new computer still stands. Other member's have gotten rid of all their problems by switching computers before.
   
  Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Ah, thank you so much for this. IMO, you probably should provide a link to this very helpful information in your signature...


 
  If you have read the whole thread..you do not know how much / how many times I have repeated that or other helpful things...I don't care to find it anymore. If you want to know about it .... I'll just type up a new one.
   
  I am just here to guide the lost souls into FiiO-dom.


----------



## MattTCG

Why does it annoy you? I have never had a single issue till now and I don't think it has anything to do with waspi.


----------



## Tilpo

beaver316 said:


> I've made a decision, im not going to use the wasapi plugin. It's annoyances outweigh it's benefits for me.




I have made that decision a long time ago.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> I have made that decision a long time ago.


 
   
  I enjoy my windows things playing through speakers. :/ So WASAPI fits, but I do see that I may just ditch it later on :/
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Why does it annoy you? I have never had a single issue till now and I don't think it has anything to do with waspi.


 
   
  IT's annoying switching between all that.


----------



## MattTCG

I just put the default device as DS: fiio usb e17 and turned the fiio off and then back on. Now I have sound...what gives?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I just put the default device as DS: fiio usb e17 and turned the fiio off and then back on. Now I have sound...what gives?


 
   
  Could the computer be sending it something that loses sound and only a restart fixes it? Or is it the unit?
   
  More troubleshooting neeed.


----------



## hyogen

just want to say the E17 is sounding really good in my car!  super clean and much better than my stock stereo


----------



## Stonez

I've had 24 hours (I work weekend nights) to play and listen with my Alpen, and I gotta say I think I've made more than a worthwhile investment.  Music on my HD 25's have more clarity and  separation is more evident.  Bass becomes fuller and richer, mids are more pronounced and the highs seem to be brighter.  I've been running it with both my iPod touch and my Asus Aspire 1 notebook and it's breathed new life into both.
   
  LOVE IT!


----------



## acenima

Quote: 





stonez said:


> I've had 24 hours (I work weekend nights) to play and listen with my Alpen, and I gotta say I think I've made more than a worthwhile investment.  Music on my HD 25's have more clarity and  separation is more evident.  Bass becomes fuller and richer, mids are more pronounced and the highs seem to be brighter.  I've been running it with both my iPod touch and my Asus Aspire 1 notebook and it's breathed new life into both.
> 
> LOVE IT!


 
   

 glad to hear


----------



## MattTCG

Mine may have to be returned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think that there maybe some sort of issue with the battery that is causing the sound to go out. Still working on it though.


----------



## bowei006

You better hope you bought it from micca... Did you?


----------



## MattTCG

I bought from Sonic Electronix via ebay.


----------



## MattTCG

I'm not using the e17 as portable. So I suppose that it is always changing. Do I need to turn off usb charging and let the battery drain?


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm not using the e17 as portable. So I suppose that it is always changing. Do I need to turn off usb charging and let the battery drain?


 
   
   
  Ideally, to preserve the battery life, yes.


----------



## bowei006

1:It is recommended in that situation to charge fully and the turn off USB chg and use until no power. Then turn device on, usb chg will reset to on and allow it to recharge. Do that full power cycle a few times but not always. Sometimes a partial charge every 3 times or so you do tht is good. Li ion is said to be worse long run if power is always fully drained.


2:So ideally you should after a full charge, turn usb chg off and when it gets down to last bar of power charge it by turning usb chg and allowing to to charge. Do that most times and do a full power cycle (full power to no power) once a month.


The 1: is for most people as most including me that use it with computer dont notice the e17 power gauge and end up with no power. Ideally 2: should be done.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay will give that a try. No disappearing sound in about 24 hours!!


----------



## esuhgb

looking to upgrade my E7, any one have any comparisons between the E17 and the Audinst Hud-MX1? Will be using them via my laptop with a denon d2000, ie80 and triplefi 10. Cant find many comparisons between the two. Any input will be appreciated.


----------



## john65537

E17 is my first USB/DAC, I am somewhat confused that using E17 as a USB DAC the computer can still control the volumn.
  I thought USB/DACs accept digital signals only thus volumn should be controled by E17.
  There's a related thread saying USB audio protocol has a volumn data.
  But I still don't understand how the computer's volumn control can actually turn up headphone's sound volumn when E17's volumn is fixed.
  Don't you feel it's unreasonable?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





esuhgb said:


> looking to upgrade my E7, any one have any comparisons between the E17 and the Audinst Hud-MX1? Will be using them via my laptop with a denon d2000, ie80 and triplefi 10. Cant find many comparisons between the two. Any input will be appreciated.


 
   
  e17 pairs very well with d2k.  Hardware EQ is nice!! Some material can be overly bassy with d2k. A quick EQ fixes the issue.
   
  GL!!


----------



## bowei006

john65537 said:


> E17 is my first USB/DAC, I am somewhat confused that using E17 as a USB DAC the computer can still control the volumn.
> I thought USB/DACs accept digital signals only thus volumn should be controled by E17.
> There's a related thread saying USB audio protocol has a volumn data.
> But I still don't understand how the computer's volumn control can actually turn up headphone's sound volumn when E17's volumn is fixed.
> Don't you feel it's unreasonable?




At first FiiO locked volume control too 100%(best thing to do) on the computer so that users get best sound by controlling with amp and or dac. However users that arent on head fi or really get audio are/got confused and complained and so FiiO this time around released a more universal product that everyone will like. The non audiophiles can control volume through Windows and us audiophiles will have to avoid using volume control on computer.


----------



## Angelopsaro

Quote: 





> To get the line-out signal from Alpen, you will also need to get the FiiO L7 dock connector (or dock Alpen to E9, if you have one).


 
   
  Am a bit noob guys so can someone expain this? Lets say the source is my cowon J3, my sansa fuze or my laptop. I cant connect my headphones to E17(or any other amp)? Do i need an extra gadget (L7) between my headphones and the amp?
   
  Also is there a difference if you get the digital signal from my laptop through usb or a spdif? both bypass the laptops soundcard?
   
  Last, anyone has bookmarked a link to share about dacs, amps and preamps etc to save me some time looking around?


----------



## Pieface

Um...the E17 has a headphone jack to plug your headphones into...just next to the spdif socket on top of the device.
   
  You use the short twin 3.5mm jack cord that comes with the E17 to connect your sansa/cowon HP out to the Aux in on the bottom of the E17. Your HP goes into the HP out on top of the E17.
   
  Not sure I understand your problem...?
   
  The L7 let's you take an input from your laptop, use the E17 DAC and give you a line out to feed into an alternative amplifier to the E17 amp section. At least that is my understanding of it...


----------



## Angelopsaro

Quote: 





pieface said:


> Um...the E17 has a headphone jack to plug your headphones into...just next to the spdif socket on top of the device.
> 
> 
> The L7 let's you take an input from your laptop, use the E17 DAC and give you a line out to feed into an alternative amplifier to the E17 amp section. At least that is my understanding of it...


 
   
  Oh i got it.. silly me.. in case you dont want E17 to amplify music you use the L7 and connect to it another amp.


----------



## qiko

Well I received my Alpen last week Tuesday, and I am enjoying it very much. It is pretty neat that I can connect a toslink and plug in my headphones. It is smaller than I imagine.
   
  I plugged it into my PC's  X-Fi Titanium HD optical and it pushed out 96/24
  I tried it with my PS3 optical and was able to get 44/16 with games. I might try monoprice's Toslink & Digital Coaxial Port (Rev.2) to see what else I can unlock. Going to play around with my WD streaming media player later tonight.
   
  Being portable is awesome! I am satisfied.


----------



## SniperCzar

Here's a thought, when the FiiO engineers do start work on the E15 again, is there any way to control the selected input/volume/EQ from a computer it's attached to over USB? I suppose the more practical question would be, am I the only one here who would use that?


----------



## hyogen

REALLY loving E17 + Cowon J3!!!!!!!  They are the same size as well------now I can't find my velvet pouch :'(


----------



## Pieface

The battery still hasn't moved on my E17...
   
  Checked the run time log and I'm over 48 hours of use. When I was burning in my full sized headphones I ran the E17 overnight with USB charge on which accounts for about 15 hours of use. I turned the USB charge off that morning. 28 hours use minimum and no movement in the battery indicator...  USB charge has definitely been off and the E17 has been full battery when I turn it off so I don't think it is crapping out overnight and initiating a charge cycle.
   
  I thought the E17 would run off the battery while USB charge is off but it must be taking it's power from the USB port.  Am I damaging my battery by not using it?


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


pieface said:


> The battery still hasn't moved on my E17...
> 
> Checked the run time log and I'm over 48 hours of use. When I was burning in my full sized headphones I ran the E17 overnight with USB charge on which accounts for about 15 hours of use. I turned the USB charge off that morning. 28 hours use minimum and no movement in the battery indicator...  USB charge has definitely been off and the E17 has been full battery when I turn it off so I don't think it is crapping out overnight and initiating a charge cycle.
> 
> I thought the E17 would run off the battery while USB charge is off but it must be taking it's power from the USB port.  Am I damaging my battery by not using it?


 
  It may not actually charge the battery, but may still get its necessary "running" power off the connector while in use. It's been the same for my E7, though I haven't used my E17 that way yet, strictly charge & mobile use so far.


----------



## hybridfive

Hey guys i know its been mentioned a few times in here. I am quite disapointed with the interference with not only wifi but also 3G connection with my iphone when its in the vancinity of the fiio. Its terrible! 
   
  Anyone else find it almost unlistenable at lower volumes? Any Solutions? I dont get the same problem with my E7 Combo.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Here's a thought, when the FiiO engineers do start work on the E15 again, is there any way to control the selected input/volume/EQ from a computer it's attached to over USB? I suppose the more practical question would be, am I the only one here who would use that?


 
   
   
  Sorry not.


----------



## bowei006

I dont use USB but if I remember correctly, there have been posts before on the E17 lasting longer on USB even with CHG off, due to it also supplying a bit of power.

I use SPDIF exclusively so I would not fully know.


----------



## teddytejero

matttcg said:


> Okay, mayday here!! First, please see the post I made yesterday:
> 
> 
> *Okay, weirdness here. I'm just sitting at my computer rockin' out with some tunes and the e17 and the sound disappears. This used to happen with the e10, but just for a second...maybe two and then it would start right back up. So I do about everything you could think of...still no sound. So I take the e17 and plug it into my laptop and presto, sound. So it's a pc issue and possibly one caused by the fiio. Not sure.*
> ...




I've experienced the same thing listening to music , putting the Fiio on hold and no more sound when I put it back on. I think the USB port looses it's connection to the Fiio.

When I turn the laptop on & off it works again. Maybe you should look at the USB settings in the hardware overview of your PC !

cheers


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





teddytejero said:


> I've experienced the same thing listening to music , putting the Fiio on hold and no more sound when I put it back on. I think the USB port looses it's connection to the Fiio.
> When I turn the laptop on & off it works again. Maybe you should look at the USB settings in the hardware overview of your PC !
> cheers


 
  Exactly what usb setting can be changed? Please clarify...


----------



## Darkblade48

Windows may be turning off the USB port to save power. Check to ensure that it is not.


----------



## MattTCG

That possible during sleep mode or hibernation but not during normal use. Any other ideas?


----------



## Angelopsaro

Is there a difference in sound quality if you use the spdif or the usb port to connect the Alpen in a laptop?


----------



## bowei006

Unless you have tracks over 96KHz, a computer who can do spdif, a computer who supports 192khz over spdif protocal, codec/drivers that have 192 khz enabled AND YOU MUST HAVE ALL the requirements. You do not need spdif with e17


----------



## dukeskd

Did you try a different USB port? Are you using USB 3.0?


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





hybridfive said:


> Hey guys i know its been mentioned a few times in here. I am quite disapointed with the interference with not only wifi but also 3G connection with my iphone when its in the vancinity of the fiio. Its terrible!
> 
> Anyone else find it almost unlistenable at lower volumes? Any Solutions? I dont get the same problem with my E7 Combo.


 

 That's a valid question and one I would like to see resolved in the next Fiio product or maybe the next batch of E17s. I love my E17, but considering it's a portable device, not only for laptops, but for ipods/iphones etc. wifi interference should have been addressed during conception...


----------



## beaver316

I've so far been using this device with my computer, but want to try it with my iPod. I have a really old iPod Nano 2nd Gen. It's really terrible lol, especially the amp section. So does the FiiO L3 or L9 cable work with this little mp3 player? I tried the supplied cable that came with the E17, 3.5mm to 3.5mm, but that doesnt do anything.


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I've so far been using this device with my computer, but want to try it with my iPod. I have a really old iPod Nano 2nd Gen. It's really terrible lol, especially the amp section. So does the FiiO L3 or L9 cable work with this little mp3 player? I tried the supplied cable that came with the E17, 3.5mm to 3.5mm, but that doesnt do anything.


 
   
  The LOD will bypass the iPod amplifier (but not the DAC), so it should work.
   
  If you are using a 3.5 to 3.5mm cable, then you are double amplifying, which is generally frowned upon as it increases noise. However, it should work in any case (be sure to set your E17 input to auxiliary).


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> The LOD will bypass the iPod amplifier (but not the DAC), so it should work.
> 
> If you are using a 3.5 to 3.5mm cable, then you are double amplifying, which is generally frowned upon as it increases noise. However, it should work in any case (be sure to set your E17 input to auxiliary).


 
   
  Ah right! I forgot to change the input! Thanks for the tip.
   
  As for the LOD, are you sure it will work with the the 2nd Gen iPod? Or does it not matter what gen the iPod is?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Did you try a different USB port? Are you using USB 3.0?


 
  You pc has usb 3.0 but I have it plugged into a 2.0 port.


----------



## bowei006

EMI is a valid question but if you look at comparisson reviews of other devices and look at the EMI section. FiiO devices generally score better. Its understandable that the E17 will be used with phones but its also hard to ask for such advanced EMI protection at point blank from the source. Asking FiiO is nice and if they can implementit at a good cost that they deem good then that would be nice.


Yea L9 or L3 to bypass amp.


----------



## bigalila

So, my first post on Head-fi...
   
  I have been browsing here off and on for a while now.  I was looking for a good set of headphones, at a decent price.  I asked Mr. Google (the smartest man on the planet, I'm convinced) and he brought me to head-fi.  I looked around, read a bunch of reviews, and decided on the ATH-M50 (the white special edition, of course) and picked up an E6 and LOD to run them off my ipod.  There it started...
   
  I liked what I was reading, so I kept coming back and reading more and more.  Found this dang thread, because I was interested in what else was out there, more on what else Fiio made that may be better.  I must say, it was the good impression the little E6 gave me.  When I first charged it up, put some Sick Puppies playing, and thought "Holy $*&^!, this little thing can do that!"  Long story short... I'm hooked.
   
  I have successfully read this whole thread now, took a week, and ordered a E17 a couple days ago.  I was looking for something to improve the sound from my MBP, and seen this thing is portable too!  I'm so excited, just jitters waiting on this thing.  I can't imagine how everybody felt that had a pre-order in, that has been in the hobby for a while (so they know what they are missing), and had to wait months.  Had to feel like an eternity, and I'm sorry guys.
   
  I would like to thank everybody that contributed to this GIGANTIC thread, and put all the good info in.  I'm sure I will be happy with my purchase.
   
  Oh, and I know, my wallet already feels it!


----------



## MattTCG

Hey congrats, welcome to HF and as they like to say around here, "sorry about your wallet." It's easy to get into the upgrade buy around here. But find something you like and just enjoy it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bigalila said:


> So, my first post on Head-fi...
> 
> I have been browsing here off and on for a while now.  I was looking for a good set of headphones, at a decent price.  I asked Mr. Google (the smartest man on the planet, I'm convinced) and he brought me to head-fi.  I looked around, read a bunch of reviews, and decided on the ATH-M50 (the white special edition, of course) and picked up an E6 and LOD to run them off my ipod.  There it started...
> 
> ...


 

   
  Since you could feel the difference with the E6 then you should be able to see the difference as well with this.
   
   
  And..we have another that has read the whole thread  Only a few people(with me included) have actually read the ...whole thread. And as you have read it I am sure all your questions have been answered and should note that most issues that are found....are not with the E17. There were a few devices but most of the people with issues had it fixed so keep that in mind if it's not working well. I have a complete overview video on youtube if you want to check out how to use the E17 from start to finish and thus use it like a pro when you first get it  Keep in mind that you can use and charge it at the same time  There were many people that just came and waited until it was charged to give it a listen. You do not need to. This thread is pretty big, almost a quarter of a million views last I checked. Hope you become a regular here 
   
   
*"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"*


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> EMI is a valid question but if you look at comparisson reviews of other devices and look at the EMI section. FiiO devices generally score better. Its understandable that the E17 will be used with phones but its also hard to ask for such advanced EMI protection at point blank from the source. Asking FiiO is nice and if they can implementit at a good cost that they deem good then that would be nice.
> Yea L9 or L3 to bypass amp.


 
   
  Which would be the better choice? What's the difference between the two LODs?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Which would be the better choice? What's the difference between the two LODs?


 
(courtesy of FiiO)
   
  For an iPod the best one to use should either be an L3 or L9, L9 is usually the better choice as it is more discrete, but some amps won't fit the L9 or you wnat to plug into a desktop set so then the L3 would be better. They use superior wiring on the inside from Oyaide Japan(L3 and L9)
   
  So for an E17, the L9 is usually the better choice 
   
  Good luck


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> So for an E17, the L9 is usually the better choice
> 
> Good luck


 
  That's what I use. Pairs up very well with the touch.


----------



## bigalila

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Since you could feel the difference with the E6 then you should be able to see the difference as well with this.
> 
> 
> And..we have another that has read the whole thread  Only a few people(with me included) have actually read the ...whole thread. And as you have read it I am sure all your questions have been answered and should note that most issues that are found....are not with the E17. There were a few devices but most of the people with issues had it fixed so keep that in mind if it's not working well. I have a complete overview video on youtube if you want to check out how to use the E17 from start to finish and thus use it like a pro when you first get it  Keep in mind that you can use and charge it at the same time  There were many people that just came and waited until it was charged to give it a listen. You do not need to. This thread is pretty big, almost a quarter of a million views last I checked. Hope you become a regular here
> ...


 
  Thanks for the good wishes and warm welcome.  I may become a regular, we shall see.  Probably won't have too many dumb questions about the E17, this thread pretty much covered everything possible, several times!  I will take a look at the videos, probably tonight, because it could be here as early as tomorrow!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Don't want to go into "headfi overload" though.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





bigalila said:


> Don't want to go into "headfi overload" though.


 
  TOO LATE!!! lol.


----------



## bigalila

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> TOO LATE!!! lol.


 
  Haha! This thread almost put me down a couple times!  Just waiting to get the E17 now!


----------



## teddytejero

matttcg said:


> Exactly what usb setting can be changed? Please clarify...




In the hardware settings under your main USB hub is a setting : 'PC may cut power to USB port to preserve energy'. I have my laptop always on , no sleep or other energy saving options enabled. And still I believe the laptop cuts power to the USB ports. I have now disabled the setting ... let's see ?


----------



## Gofre

Quick question guys, if I wanted to use the E17 solely as a DAC, would I have to use the L7 or is there some other other way of feeding into a separate amp?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gofre said:


> Quick question guys, if I wanted to use the E17 solely as a DAC, would I have to use the L7 or is there some other other way of feeding into a separate amp?


 
  L7 or E9 last I checked. The E9 has a line out if I remember so you can bypass the amp of both devices but as the E9 is added to the mix might add some undesirables to the sound(depending on implementation) I have yet to hear of problems doing that but as a rule of thumb it's best to have the least amount of components and those components need to be high quality and implemented well.
   
  L7 would be best.


----------



## Gofre

Thought so, thanks for clarifying. The E9 is something I want to get at some point down the line, I just need a more demanding set of cans to justify the purchase first =P the L7 will do for now!


----------



## pwnerman

Guys first off I'm a noob so let that be known lol

My question is do I need an amp plus a digital media converter like this if I plan on using it with my ps3? 

I'm asking because the man that wrote the first post said there are better amps that aren't dmc's.

I'm just confused if I need one for a ps3 or not. Thanks 


Btw I saw in the first couple posts this device was supposed to be around 150 but I can't find them for under 200 on Amazon 


Also is this a good pair with some beyerdynamic 770 pros? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bigalila

Just got it!!!  Unpacked, hooked up and set up on MBP, and OMG!!!  I love it so far.  Running off usb and charging, setting it through my top 10 and I'll have a real impression.  So far though, it's amazing.  Thank you head-fi for making my life this much more enjoyable!


----------



## bigalila

Quote: 





pwnerman said:


> Btw I saw in the first couple posts this device was supposed to be around 150 but I can't find them for under 200 on Amazon


 
  Supply and demand thing going on with that seller on Amazon.  I got mine off Amazon and two days later the price went up $20!


----------



## garetz

Can get it for $140 currently in australia from various places. Anyway just got one, and i wasnt happy at first, but about 24 hours of burn in really made a difference.

 likin it with the vmoda m80s


----------



## bowei006

pwnerman said:


> Guys first off I'm a noob so let that be known lol
> My question is do I need an amp plus a digital media converter like this if I plan on using it with my ps3?
> I'm asking because the man that wrote the first post said there are better amps that aren't dmc's.
> I'm just confused if I need one for a ps3 or not. Thanks
> ...




You dont NEED a device like this for the PS3. If you watch blu ray on it and have good headphones then it would be nice but if that is your only purpose then....

Other DACs an amps with optical toslink in can do the same thing.

There are better standalone amps out there but in terms of overal features and what it has. This is great.


----------



## pwnerman

I plan on using it for everything from ps3 to a desktop to a portable amp.

Does anyone have any opinions on better amps/DMC? Just curious or is this the clear winner 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bowei006

My advice to you is to not ask that specific question in threads like this focusing on one device. Biases are much more present as this is an item specific thread.

Asking in a new thread is better but offers another bad thing, noise. There are many suggestions that are un founded on fact(dude never heard them) or just random ones. So you have to learn to sort.


----------



## plasmoic

Hi all,
  for those who experience some clipping noise when E17 is connected via USB...and especially when using a laptop as a source...
  I also own an external Sound Blaster HD card (will be used for vinyl ripping since it has phono in) and was looking at its support page...
  found this article about static noise and USB latency problems causing those annoying clicks...and these are I guess mainly symptoms
  with the laptops since the USB hosts are mostly shared (dunno if its right therminology but you can guess the idea)
  May of use for those with E17...
  anyway the article:
   How to optimize your PC for Creative USB Soundcard or Headset to prevent static noise or latency
  

  Summary:
 
 *Applicable To: *Sound Blaster Digital Music Premium HD, Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro, Sound Blaster X-Fi Go! Pro, Sound Blaster Play!, Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1, Sound Blaster Tactic3D Sigma, Sound Blaster Tactic3D Alpha, Sound Blaster WoW Headset, HS-1200, Sound Blaster WoW Wireless Headset, HS-1000, Draco HS-850, Sound Blaster Arena Surround USB Gaming Headset
 This article provides information on how to optimize your PC for Creative USB sound card and headset to prevent static noise or latency.
 
 
 Ensure that the headset/soundcard uses a *USB Host* that is on an individual IRQ slot. This means that no other devices in the PC can be sharing this IRQ.
 If you are running a hyper-threaded CPU, turn off *Hyperthreading* from the BIOS. Consult your motherboard's documentation for more information on how to turn off *Hyperthreading*.
 Launch *Windows Control Panel* and do the following:
 Change Processor Scheduling to *Background Services*. Navigate to the advanced page of the System applet. Click on the *Performance Settings* button. Select the Advanced tab and click on *Background Services* for Processor Scheduling.
 Switch Off Power Schemes. In the Power Options applet, choose the *Always On* power scheme. Change the settings for *Monitor and Hard Disk Turn off and System standby* to *'Never'* (this will prevent your PC from not responding during song playback).
 Disable System Sounds. Select the *'No Sounds'* scheme under the Sounds tab of the Sounds and Audio Devices applet.
 Where possible, disable your Network Interface Card (NIC), Wi-Fi, Modem, and any non critical USB devices and check whether the noise has been reduced or eliminated

  the original link is:
  http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=83981


----------



## Parall3l

I just the USB problem. It was on the Macbook 7.1. Switched the socket and it was all clear again. LOL


----------



## Makiah S

mmm I'm getting more excited everytime I read about the E17! Looking forward to having it my self, also guys how well does it drive 250 ohm cans?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> mmm I'm getting more excited everytime I read about the E17! Looking forward to having it my self, also guys how well does it drive 250 ohm cans?


 
   
  Just fine!!


----------



## nightgost

I have a 600ohm hd25-13 and in +6db it goes to a very rasonable volume(maybe a little loud, that pleasent loud), and in +12db it can get loud without any 'distorcion', maybe too much loud for our ears. it's a 35mm driver relatively easy to drive(considering its 600ohm).
   
  any further questions please shoot


----------



## Bleether

Is there a new version of the E17? Look closely at the power button, it is switched with the input select button. Also the branding logo in the back is different.

  I just sold my Alpen for $250 bucks on amazon with the velcro mod case i did, and the brainwavz for a total of $270 bucks. Not a bad profit!


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





bleether said:


> Is there a new version of the E17? Look closely at the power button, it is switched with the input select button. Also the branding logo in the back is different.
> 
> I just sold my Alpen for $250 bucks on amazon with the velcro mod case i did, and the brainwavz for a total of $270 bucks. Not a bad profit!


 
   
  Interesting, I would like to know as well. Were there some improvements to this R2?


----------



## ClieOS

darkblade48 said:


> Interesting, I would like to know as well. Were there some improvements to this R2?




No such thing as a 'R2'. That's just an old rendering of E17 when it is still in the R&D phase. What we have now is the final design.


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





clieos said:


> No such thing as a 'R2'. That's just an old rendering of E17 when it is still in the R&D phase. What we have now is the final design.


 
  Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Fegefeuer

FiiO E17 and COWON J3. Which cable do you recommend to connect to each other? L8 or L2?


----------



## MattTCG

L9 is the best cable for e17 and ipod classic?
   
  thanks...


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> L9 is the best cable for e17 and ipod classic?
> 
> thanks...


 
   
  Posted two pages back...
   
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> (courtesy of FiiO)
> 
> For an iPod the best one to use should either be an L3 or L9, L9 is usually the better choice as it is more discrete, but some amps won't fit the L9 or you wnat to plug into a desktop set so then the L3 would be better. They use superior wiring on the inside from Oyaide Japan(L3 and L9)
> 
> ...


----------



## MattTCG

hey, thanks for that!! I apologize for my laziness...


----------



## visanj

Now I'm starting to enjoy E17....I think burin-in is required for this
   
  A.R.Rahman's music (best recording in indian music) is coming alive.....


----------



## garetz

I have burnt it in for additional 24 hours, making it 48 total, and it just keeps getting better and better. I have never used anything else that has benefited from burn in as much as the e17.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





garetz said:


> I have burnt it in for additional 24 hours, making it 48 total, and it just keeps getting better and better. I have never used anything else that has benefited from burn in as much as the e17.


 
   
  I agree with you...even I didn't benefit from burin in any other source...this may be due to high quality dac in e17
   
  But I use to hear that burn-in is not required for source, for amp it may require though
   
  Out of Topic:
   
  I regret for not visiting head-fi 5 yrs back. I bought Marantz CDP + Amp + KEF iQ5 speakers but didn't enjoy much due to space constraint. Had I known about this portable audiophile DACs and headphones I would not have spent $1500. I sold all the three due to space constraint
   
  Now I'm really happy. Thanks to Head-Fi community. this really brought the pleasure which I use to get from aiwa walkman 10 yrs back....


----------



## MattTCG

I'm not sure that I've been able to hear any burn in tbh. What exactly did you hear after the burn in? 
   
  I am enjoying the e17 more after I've gotten used to it. I didn't think that I'd like the up and down volume as I prefer an analogue knob, but it's fine now that I've gotten used to it. I love the hardware EQ. It's just a nice clean dac with plenty of pop for a portable device. Great product!!


----------



## bowei006

Hardware EQ is a nice add on for newbies. Many times FiiO's and other comapnies devices are hard to get used to due to the neutral and transparent sound so some may not "hear" anything at first. The EQ allows audiophile's to enjoy their music by boosting up the stuff they like on parts they enjoy and also allows newbies to hear differences and make the transition better.
   
  FiiO was worried about implementing or not implementing such a feature but I will say this is a success. FiiO has noted that it is making universal products and it's featuring in popular consumer websites and features like allowing computer to control volume over USB(previously disabled), EQ, simple design and use has shown that. However in my opinion going to far into the consumer sector may be....bad in the long term and should not be..continued or else you become one of THOSE companies that can't support both niche and consumer lines...and there are many of those.
   
   
   


fegefeuer said:


> FiiO E17 and COWON J3. Which cable do you recommend to connect to each other? L8 or L2?


   


   
  As you can see, they use the same wire(the L2 and L8) and the only difference is plug type. You buy the one that fits your purpose best. For an iPod and E17 L9 or L shape is best as the curving nature fits. If you think the L shape works, then get the L shape, if you need straight as it's..kinda far away, then get the L2, keep in mind that if it's too far away you will need to use the stock cables FiiO provide with the E17.


----------



## MattTCG

I think I just got called a noob 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh well, I've been called worse


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I think I just got called a noob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am sorry if that offended. I did not direct it at you but that audiophile's will like it as it makes it more fitting for their studio headphones that sometimes aren't "fun" and add coloration that is also sometimes required to make the tracks of mainstream music sound good. And it is also helpful for newbies as it has that coloration. Again, I am sorry if that offended you in any way Matt.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey, no problem at all. I was just kidding around. It's all good.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Jk


----------



## ben_r_

So anyone tried the e17 with the Denon AH-D5000 or AH-D2000 cans? Thinking about picking one up for a portable rig for my D5000's.


----------



## MattTCG

It's an awesome pairing with either. Just about perfect...great synergy. 
   
  And I like your avatar. I had that wallpaper for years...digital blasphemy rules!!


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It's an awesome pairing with either. Just about perfect...great synergy.
> 
> And I like your avatar. I had that wallpaper for years...digital blasphemy rules!!


 

 Cool. Have to pick one up then.
   
  And hell yea! He is awesome! Im actually a member too. Very cool work.


----------



## MattTCG

I love the Christmas themed wallpaper. He does do very nice work. Oh yea, you won't regret the e17 with the denon line, it's really really good. +2 on the bass and -2 on treble makes for some very nice listening!!


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I love the Christmas themed wallpaper. He does do very nice work. Oh yea, you won't regret the e17 with the denon line, it's really really good. +2 on the bass and -2 on treble makes for some very nice listening!!


 

 Awesome. Ill wait till I see one on eBay again new for $139. They pop up fairly regularly and Ill pick one up. Think I have $50-$60 in eBay bucks too to sweeten the deal!


----------



## beaver316

I've run into a little problem with my E17. I find that when playing sound through the internet browser i get crackling sounds, but i get none of that when playing my mp3 or flac files. Any ideas?


----------



## musicinmymind

this should be a[size=medium]wesome for E17 + Phone, will try and post my updates[/size]


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> FiiO E17 and COWON J3. Which cable do you recommend to connect to each other? L8 or L2?


 
   
  I'd like to know if you think the J3 needs the E17.  I kinda feel like my J3 and Galaxy S + Voodoo don't need amping... even when using my 250ohm dt880.  It's nice if I want more bass, though. 
   
  I have probably used the E17 around 40 hours by now...  It's really good for boosting bass / adjusting treble....and I only use 12dB......but I am not sure if I hear an "improvement" over just the J3 or Galaxy S/Voodoo+5dB amp).  Of course when I amp the Galaxy S I leave it on 0dB so as to not double amp. 
   
   
   
  I certainly can tell the benefit of having the E17 for sources like iPod 5.5gen, Sony PSP (weak amp + Wolfson DAC)......  and definitely the USB DAC for my netbook, but my main 2 sources don't seem to really need it.........hmm.  When I paired the iPod 5.5gen with the E17, it warmed up the sound SLIGHTLY if I had the bass boost up.


----------



## beaver316

Im having another little issue which i don't remember having before 
   
  A few days ago there was a discussion anout WASAPI in foobar and i tried it for a while, but since then i changed back to window's default. Now im trying WASAPI again but something is different.
   
  If i play a song at 48/16 it will show 44/16 correctly on the E17, likewise for 96/24. However, any other sound sources such as youtube, basic windows sounds, etc will always register as 96/24 on the E17. Before i remember it showing 48/16. It's like windows is upsampling everything. Is it like this for anyone else who's using wasapi on foobar?


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Im having another little issue which i don't remember having before
> 
> A few days ago there was a discussion anout WASAPI in foobar and i tried it for a while, but since then i changed back to window's default. Now im trying WASAPI again but something is different.
> 
> If i play a song at 48/16 it will show 44/16 correctly on the E17, likewise for 96/24. However, any other sound sources such as youtube, basic windows sounds, etc will always register as 96/24 on the E17. Before i remember it showing 48/16. It's like windows is upsampling everything. Is it like this for anyone else who's using wasapi on foobar?


 
   
  Ok ignore this problem, sorted it out. Now my only issue is the crackling in youtube videos.


----------



## bowei006

Crackling audio from youtube could be caused by low quality audio files being played. Hearing youtube means WASAPI is not being used(duh) so this is just your fault. As in playing low quality youtube stuff or as WASAPI is not enabled for windows other audio streams can interfere.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Crackling audio from youtube could be caused by low quality audio files being played. Hearing youtube means WASAPI is not being used(duh) so this is just your fault. As in playing low quality youtube stuff or as WASAPI is not enabled for windows other audio streams can interfere.


 
   
  If i unplug my earphones from the E17 and plug them directly into my laptop's headphone jack and play a video on youtube, it's crackle free. I also get crackles/static whether i use wasapi or not.


----------



## zzbloopzz

Any place in the US that is selling this for ~$140 still? The only place I see it at that price is Head-Direct. Is that a legit/good vendor? Could not find any reviews for that particular place. It is $146 with shipping there.


----------



## MattTCG

yes, head direct is quite reputable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zzbloopzz said:


> Any place in the US that is selling this for ~$140 still? The only place I see it at that price is Head-Direct. Is that a legit/good vendor? Could not find any reviews for that particular place. It is $146 with shipping there.


 
  Head-Direct IS a reputable store  It is by HifiMan of course  It is also an authorized FiiO dealer so you know they just didn't buy FROM an authorized one.


----------



## zzbloopzz

Cool, ordered from HeadDirect. Can't wait for it to come in! :c)


----------



## fedayn

I've owned my E17 for about 3 weeks now. I'm really happy about some aspects and won't get into details right now.
   
  Has anyone else the same impression that +6 gain is not only louder, but also a bit boomy? The impression I have is only accentuated with +12 gain. By comparison, 0 gain sounds, for lack of better words, on the analytical spectrum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, rather than 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Quality wise, I thing gain 0 is clearly cleaner. 
   
  Just curious if my ears trick me.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





fedayn said:


> I've owned my E17 for about 3 weeks now. I'm really happy about some aspects and won't get into details right now.
> 
> Has anyone else the same impression that +6 gain is not only louder, but also a bit boomy? The impression I have is only accentuated with +12 gain. By comparison, 0 gain sounds, for lack of better words, on the analytical spectrum.
> 
> ...


 
   
  hmm for my TF10 and DT880 i don't think it sounds boomier...maybe with a lot of bass boost.  are your headphones kinda bassy? 
   
  At first I might have mistaken the 12dB gain as more full sound--but maybe I'm wrong?  It definitely makes it louder... my friends couldn't really tell whether or not it sounded better or not (aside from louder) from 0/6db/12db. 
   
  I like a warmer sound, however, and have very neutral phones..     What do you mean by qualitywise cleaner?    Is it sounding distorted/scratchy at all when you have it at 6 or 12db gain?  Even at 12db gain the sound is clean in my experience..  do you have your source EQ'd?  what kind of files are you playing?


----------



## bigalila

I'm pretty new at this, so I don't know how much my input is worth.  I have noticed the same on my ATH M50's though.  I think it's because of the extra power it makes available.  The impedance varies across the frequency range of any speaker/driver and if you add more power, it will usually drive it better in the areas that are lacking than when it is underpowered, evening out the response to input.  It can have a negative effect on the other frequencies that the driver is trying to produce at the same time though.  That's just my experience from car stereo.  Don't know how much it transfers to these tiny, full range drivers.
   
  I know I am in love with this little E17.  I don't take my headphones off anymore!  Highly impressed, but I am new to head-fi.  I am going to pick up a set of HD598's next and check them out with it.  My wallet hates me so much!


----------



## fedayn

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> hmm for my TF10 and DT880 i don't think it sounds boomier...maybe with a lot of bass boost.  are your headphones kinda bassy?
> 
> At first I might have mistaken the 12dB gain as more full sound--but maybe I'm wrong?  It definitely makes it louder... my friends couldn't really tell whether or not it sounded better or not (aside from louder) from 0/6db/12db.
> 
> I like a warmer sound, however, and have very neutral phones..     What do you mean by qualitywise cleaner?    Is it sounding distorted/scratchy at all when you have it at 6 or 12db gain?  Even at 12db gain the sound is clean in my experience..  do you have your source EQ'd?  what kind of files are you playing?


 
   
  The sound material is bull****, nothing of real quality, really. The FiiO sounds extremely nice with +6, but when I went with +0, first I thought it was lacking something, but after 30 seconds I got the impression the sound is cleaner.  The headphones are also cheap crap, so I'll have to get back on the matter in 1-2 weeks when HE-400 get in stock in Holland and I can FINALLY get them. 
   
  But what I meant about boomy ... maybe ... bass with a bit of scratch ... but I repeat, lousy material, and cheap headphones. 
   
  The FiiO E17, just to make it clear, is a BIG WOOOOOW for me, none the less. I'll put it to better use with quality headphones, and in the coming months, better material.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





fedayn said:


> I've owned my E17 for about 3 weeks now. I'm really happy about some aspects and won't get into details right now.
> 
> Has anyone else the same impression that +6 gain is not only louder, but also a bit boomy? The impression I have is only accentuated with +12 gain. By comparison, 0 gain sounds, for lack of better words, on the analytical spectrum.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My rule of thumb is to use the lowest gain possible that gives me appropriate loud levels when called for. I feel this gives me the best sound. With regard to EQ'ing the bass or treble for that matter, I have always listened "flat" to music;especially since I started listening with headphones. It's just easy to effect other areas of the spectrum and most devices don't do a good of this. But I'd call the e17 an exception. Hardware EQ is well executed by Fiio and a useful feature. I still never EQ past + or - 4.


----------



## fedayn

For example the only thing I keep, for now, is +2 bass.


----------



## MattTCG

I'm at +2 bass and -4 on treble.


----------



## JamesFiiO

I know lots of audiophile in China hate EQ, they just refused any kind of EQ because they think the pure sound without any EQ is the best sound, but they just forget that all record is made by EQ in the studio. Even the live music, the frequency response of the sound from the singer will change because the room. so forget the rule, just enjoy the music you love , not matter is is through EQ or not, anyway, you can set the EQ to flat if you love the original sound.
   
  Also in my opinion, the whole audio system includes the music itself, source ( DVD or MP3 or any other) , amp, headphone and speakers, cables, but don't forge the room and your ear, because different room and ear have different frequency response , so sometime it does need a  EQ so you can make the whole audio system become better.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> I know lots of audiophile in China hate EQ, they just refused any kind of EQ because they think the pure sound without any EQ is the best sound, but they just forget that all record is made by EQ in the studio. Even the live music, the frequency response of the sound from the singer will change because the room. so forget the rule, just enjoy the music you love , not matter is is through EQ or not, anyway, you can set the EQ to flat if you love the original sound.
> 
> Also in my opinion, the whole audio system includes the music itself, source ( DVD or MP3 or any other) , amp, headphone and speakers, cables, but don't forge the room and your ear, because different room and ear have different frequency response , so sometime it does need a  EQ so you can make the whole audio system become better.


 
  IMO, Eq should be used to get the sound you enjoy the most, and there are shortcomings from records many times, especially bad masters and thats where EQ comes in handy.


----------



## fedayn

I personally see the EQ as a big + for the E17. Even though some might not use it, it's still a wonderful tool for both the "Average Joe's" and the experienced audiophiles.


----------



## kennyboy2

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Great! maybe we should make a USB cable which can support extra power supply!


 
  I confess that I have not read all 3000 plus posts to this thread.   My apologies, in advance, if my questions have been addressed.  Apparently, without a great deal of manipulation, the E17 cannot be successfully connected to an iPad via the Camera Connection Kit (CCK) even with USB charging turned off. On the other hand, my E7 can be connected via USB to my new 3G Ipad.  I am thinking about upgrading to the E17 and have several questions:
   
  1.  When connecting my E7 to my iPad via USB/CCK, I assume that I am using the DAC in the E7 as opposed to the internal DAC in the iPad???   If so, will an E17 connected to the iPad's headphone output via L9 connection cable still beat the E7 connected by USB or would it be a wash?
   
  2.  From all indications, is there any doubt that the E17 will outperform my E7 when connected to my iPod claasic or IPod Touch 4G?  When connected to an iPod, I understand that I am using the E-7/E-17's internal amplifier but NOT their DACs.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kennyboy2 said:


> I confess that I have not read all 3000 plus posts to this thread.   My apologies, in advance, if my questions have been addressed.  Apparently, without a great deal of manipulation, the E17 cannot be successfully connected to an iPad via the Camera Connection Kit (CCK) even with USB charging turned off. On the other hand, my E7 can be connected via USB to my new 3G Ipad.  I am thinking about upgrading to the E17 and have several questions:
> 
> 1.  When connecting my E7 to my iPad via USB/CCK, I assume that I am using the DAC in the E7 as opposed to the internal DAC in the iPad???   If so, will an E17 connected to the iPad's headphone output via L9 connection cable still beat the E7 connected by USB or would it be a wash?
> 
> 2.  From all indications, is there any doubt that the E17 will outperform my E7 when connected to my iPod claasic or IPod Touch 4G?  When connected to an iPod, I understand that I am using the E-7/E-17's internal amplifier but NOT their DACs.


 
  Many don't read that much.
   
  Realizing that the E17 won't work is a bit your fault as it was in this thread...quite extensively for a few couple days too.
   
  1: I would still say the E7 is still "superior" as it's still making use of more advanced and "audiophile" circuitry and DAC as opposed to the standard one. If your headphones are driven properly by E7 then the E7 with iPad in my opinion would "Technically" be superior to L9 and E17....but that IS if you can tell a difference. Most can't....some can. I have done tests and have proved that I can "tell" a difference. But the difference is not large enough for me to really care about when I am out and about. IF I was traveling then yes I would...but hey...I wouldn't grab an iPad with me. I would grab my Mac.
   
  2:So...is the E17's amplifiers(there are two..or 4 in real technical terms, pre dual opamp and dual driving opamp) better than the E7's technically and from reviews...yeah. For actual use of their amp's use an LOD.


----------



## konjikikun

I have owned a E17 for around half a year and have always wondered about the bass/treble configuration. I always play around with it but sometimes I turn both to +10. I asked many headphone shop owners about my settings and most of them said that doing so doesn't make it sound like how the music was originally. But then, I can't really find the optimal setting for me.
   
  Is there a point of reference or generic configuration to start off with?

 I use the sennheiser HD 598 and westone 4 if anyone needs to know.


----------



## bowei006

There is none. Read feiaos last post on the last page. People dont do recordings well anymore. Very few do. They add their own sound to it and most of it is consumer suited. I have songs played that sound terrible on all my headphones. Very few things are perfect or as intended these days and as audiophiles should we trust what "they"intended to always sound good?

I can kinda seee what you like in music. You like a mixture of forward vocals and bass ahead of all the other stuff but +10 seems extreme


----------



## MattTCG

Anything outside of + or - 4 sounds unnatural to me.


----------



## Trae

This might be out there, but has anybody had any experience bi-amping two E17's(usb in>headphone out>aux>headphone out)?


----------



## ClieOS

trae said:


> This might be out there, but has anybody had any experience bi-amping two E17's(usb in>headphone out>aux>headphone out)?




Not much point of doing that. Just louder in volume and more distortion due to either clipping and worsen SNR.


----------



## Trae

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Not much point of doing that. Just louder in volume and more distortion due to either clipping and worsen SNR.


 
  Hmm..I was thinking that it would be like bi-amping the digiZoid Z02's. People (bassheads) have said it sounds great when bi-amped, and I thought it would apply to these too. Oh well. I guess I'll get an E9/C421.


----------



## bowei006

I am a bass head. I dont have an ZO2 and I laugh at most dual amping setups. Unless the first setup has "audiophile"circuitry and has good enough amp and jack and everything dual amping would be funny. Plus when youdual amping then you have to worry even more about synergy


----------



## jono454

Wow...have had this little amazing piece of equipment since day 1 on first pre-order first batch from mp4. Currently only using it as a DAC and i love it in my rig. 
   
  Interesting to see the price went up to $200 considering i only paid roughly $125 (i think..somewhere around there)
   
  For anyone else that wants one....headphonebar.com still has them for $139 (cheaper if you live in canada to save on shipping costs)


----------



## hyogen

Just as a dac for your laptop? Just curious 

Just got an old Netbook. Pretty sure I will use the amp portion also


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Just as a dac for your laptop? Just curious
> Just got an old Netbook. Pretty sure I will use the amp portion also


 
  He has an Hifiman EF5 so he is probably lining out with the E9 or with an L7 and just using the DAC of the E17 into the EF5. That would look like a beast setup, E17 in an E9 with an audiophile cable from E9 to EF5..that would look sick


----------



## MattTCG

I'd like to see a pic of that setup!!


----------



## jono454

A pic of my setup with E17 and EF5.
   
  lol unfortunately this hobby takes a huge tole on my wallet so i'm currently using Monoprice PREMIUM! cables


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Just as a dac for your laptop? Just curious
> Just got an old Netbook. Pretty sure I will use the amp portion also


 
  Yep just as a DAC. The E9 just acts as a LOD for the E17.
   
  E17 has a pretty decent DAC built in and i'm too poor to afford anything higher...but i'm happy with what i have (for now).


----------



## MattTCG

I can tell that your wallet could be a little thinner!! Upgrade those cables!!


----------



## MattTCG

Just curious but what volume level do you listen at? I'm usually between 24-32.


----------



## Pieface

I'm usually between 20 and 25 on +6 Gain. Easy to drive 'phones tho'


----------



## weitn

I didn't have my Bifrost (long story) in the past 3 weeks. So I use my E17+E7 as the DAC to Lyr. I got to say after 2 weeks of using it (5 hours daily) (after adequate burn in), E17+E7 did really well. It is not as good as Bifrost but it is good enough that I am enjoying all my favorite songs. E17 is really a good value for money. Keep up the good work, Fiio!


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 so that's all the E9 is doing?  LOD?  I was about to say omg, is the E17 just acting as a "cable" between your source and the EF5, but then I just found out that the EF5 is an amplifier


----------



## Trae

Just a quick question to the E17/E9 owners out there. How does the combo sound with the eq settings going through the E9? I have an E17, and am wondering if I would benefit from getting one.


----------



## MattTCG

What headphones are you using?


----------



## Trae

Pro700 MKII


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> so that's all the E9 is doing?  LOD?  I was about to say omg, is the E17 just acting as a "cable" between your source and the EF5, but then I just found out that the EF5 is an amplifier


 
   
  Yep...it's essentially the same as the L7 but i have RCA cables and want to use those instead of a 3.5mm connection that the L7 uses..
   
  The volume pot on the E9 does nothing when i move up around. Volume is controlled on my EF-5.


----------



## beaver316

I don't know if you guys remember me mentioning before, but i had that problem where playing music through youtube resulted in static/popping sounds, but using foobar or any other music player works fine.
   
  Well that was on Windows 7, trying the E17 on Linux Mint and i get no such popping sounds on youtube or with the built in music player.
   
  I thought before that it might be my usb port but this sort of debunks that. I don't know what to do to get this working right on windows. Could it be bad drivers?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I don't know if you guys remember me mentioning before, but i had that problem where playing music through youtube resulted in static/popping sounds, but using foobar or any other music player works fine.
> 
> Well that was on Windows 7, trying the E17 on Linux Mint and i get no such popping sounds on youtube or with the built in music player.
> 
> I thought before that it might be my usb port but this sort of debunks that. I don't know what to do to get this working right on windows. Could it be bad drivers?


 
  It might be, I have always asked people to update theirs.
   
  This is why I also say to hold off, try it on different computers and OS's(if applicable). I'm sure I said similar stuff to you.
   
  Weird it's just youtube...hmm. Try updating Windows Drivers. Remember to make a new restore point BEFORE you do anything.
  Type in "create a restore point" and voila.


----------



## Pieface

Possibly a dumb question... If I wanted to could I use L7 to go Laptop--->E17--->Stereo amplifier---->Speakers?
   
  Not sure if the LO signal from the E17 would be suitable for that type of amplifier...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





pieface said:


> Possibly a dumb question... If I wanted to could I use L7 to go Laptop--->E17--->Stereo amplifier---->Speakers?
> 
> Not sure if the LO signal from the E17 would be suitable for that type of amplifier...


 
  Yes you would go
   
  USB output on laptop(S/PDIF if you have or need)-->E17-->L7-->Stereo amplifier --->Speakers
   
  You will not be using E17 amp. You will then be using the Wolfson DAC and not your laptops. Yes that setup will work if it follows what is below. No it is not a dumb question, I would have laughed and wrote something if it was a dumb one(jk). Stuff like this has been asked before..but I'm not going to ask you to read for 2-3 hours and do hours more of research and careful reading to find that.
   
  It will work IF your stereo amplifier isn't special and will accept a signal. As in if you can plug your ipod to it with a cable and use it that way...you can do it with this.
   
  If you can plug it with an ipod then it should work. Now does it accept an 3.5mm plug for the actual input or an RCA? If it is the later then you need an RCA to 3.5mm cable. Both male. Monoprice is a good place usually.
   
  If  your stereo accepts something else but CAN accep an 3.5mm jack..like some have an "ipod" side, then that might not be good.


----------



## Pieface

Cheers Bowie. I knew I could make the physical connections just wasn't sure if it would actually work properly though.
   
  The worst thing about my E17 so far...I don't want to use my clip +. Listening almost entirely at my PC at the moment.
   
  Need to do more listening with E17 amping Clip + but initial thoughts are it doesn't add much apart from volume.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





pieface said:


> Cheers Bowie. I knew I could make the physical connections just wasn't sure if it would actually work properly though.
> 
> The worst thing about my E17 so far...I don't want to use my clip +. Listening almost entirely at my PC at the moment.
> 
> Need to do more listening with E17 amping Clip + but initial thoughts are it doesn't add much apart from volume.


 
  Devices that don't have an Line out option like the Clip are dead to me personally. Other devices have good enough circuitry and amp to dual amp but the cheap clip in my opinion isn't one of them.
   
  I use my E17 a lot with my PC as well. The Mac's headphone out and DAC is good enough for my other headphones.


----------



## Gofre

Quick question guys- for my desktop setup, I have a MacBook Pro>>FiiO E17 (Via USB)>>JDSLabs C421 Amp (Via L7 Line Out adaptor)>>My speakers/iPod Dock. Every piece of the setup has its own volume and EQ settings. Is there any particular "protocol" in such setups on which I should use as the primary device for making adjustments, for example should I have the volume turned down to a minimum on everything and use the speaker's/MBP's etc controls, or does it not particularly matter? Any insight would be greatly appreciated [=


----------



## Trae

Well, I had this problem with my E17 to where if I moved my cable in a certain direction I would lose my right channel in my headphones. Fortunately I have found out the reason why, and a solution to fix it. The reason why it's loose is because the plastic shroud that actually holds the plug in place has become disconnected. Whenever I pushed my cable down, the plastic shroud would move up in conjunction with the headphone cable. So, you just need to force it to stay down. All you need to do is put something between the headphone jack inside the case and the top of the casing. I used some tape folded up, and jammed it in there. After that, I can move around my headphone plug all I want and there is nothing wrong with it. 
   
  I'm probably not going to take any pics of it because the screws are on the verge of being stripped, and I don't want to screw (lol) them up as much as they already are, but the procedure is pretty straightforward once you experience it for yourself. 
   
  So, for any users out there that have the headphone jack problem, try doing this before returning it for repairs. A few minutes of DIY is better than waiting a month on repairs.
   
  This may be the same for the E7, but I don't have a small star shaped screwdriver to verify. My headphone jacks are messed up on that one too.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gofre said:


> Quick question guys- for my desktop setup, I have a MacBook Pro>>FiiO E17 (Via USB)>>JDSLabs C421 Amp (Via L7 Line Out adaptor)>>My speakers/iPod Dock. Every piece of the setup has its own volume and EQ settings. Is there any particular "protocol" in such setups on which I should use as the primary device for making adjustments, for example should I have the volume turned down to a minimum on everything and use the speaker's/MBP's etc controls, or does it not particularly matter? Any insight would be greatly appreciated [=


 
  Yes use the JdSlabs amp as the full amp. The volume control on the E17 should not be activated, if it is, keep it at max. I'm not sure if the LO bypass switch changes this. Keep your computer at 100%, E17 at 100%, and speakers and dock and ipod at 100%. Use the JDSLabs amp to control volume.


----------



## Ryujen

Hey guys, I've been using my E17 for the past 5 months and it has served me well in driving my srh940, dt250 and hd650.
  Now however, I just ordered a HD800 and am wondering whether the E17 is able to handle the "King of Dynamics". I know that Fiio's website indicates that it is able to handle a headphone impedance of 300ohm and that the HD800 is supposedly 300ohm. But when checking Tyll's measurements at Innerfidelity, the HD800 is most definitely above 300ohm at every frequency. So, will the E17 be able to make the HD800 sound at least decent? Bear in mind that this is only short term as I plan to get a Matrix M-Stage in the future (that is if the E17 barely makes the cut).
   
  By the way, based on what I read, is it true that the Pico portable amp has less power output than the E17? I can't find technical data on the Pico to compare with the E17 and would like someone to shed some light on this.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





ryujen said:


> Hey guys, I've been using my E17 for the past 5 months and it has served me well in driving my srh940, dt250 and hd650.
> Now however, I just ordered a HD800 and am wondering whether the E17 is able to handle the "King of Dynamics". I know that Fiio's website indicates that it is able to handle a headphone impedance of 300ohm and that the HD800 is supposedly 300ohm. But when checking Tyll's measurements at Innerfidelity, the HD800 is most definitely above 300ohm at every frequency. So, will the E17 be able to make the HD800 sound at least decent? Bear in mind that this is only short term as I plan to get a Matrix M-Stage in the future (that is if the E17 barely makes the cut).
> 
> By the way, based on what I read, is it true that the Pico portable amp has less power output than the E17? I can't find technical data on the Pico to compare with the E17 and would like someone to shed some light on this.


 
  It's not going to handle the HD800, but it will be around decent and lower than average. The HD800 are decent with my 800$ DacMini, but great with Lyr.


----------



## Ryujen

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> It's not going to handle the HD800, but it will be around decent and lower than average. The HD800 are decent with my 800$ DacMini, but great with Lyr.


 
  Thanks for the quick reply. I did consider Schiit's product line but they all look too bulky for me (my table doesn't have much space). I'm thinking of using the E17 as a DAC only and using the line out to hook it up to something like the Matrix M-Stage or ALO Rx mk2. Any thoughts?


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





ryujen said:


> Hey guys, I've been using my E17 for the past 5 months and it has served me well in driving my srh940, dt250 and hd650.
> Now however, I just ordered a HD800 and am wondering whether the E17 is able to handle the "King of Dynamics". I know that Fiio's website indicates that it is able to handle a headphone impedance of 300ohm and that the HD800 is supposedly 300ohm. But when checking Tyll's measurements at Innerfidelity, the HD800 is most definitely above 300ohm at every frequency. So, will the E17 be able to make the HD800 sound at least decent? Bear in mind that this is only short term as I plan to get a Matrix M-Stage in the future (that is if the E17 barely makes the cut).
> 
> By the way, based on what I read, is it true that the Pico portable amp has less power output than the E17? I can't find technical data on the Pico to compare with the E17 and would like someone to shed some light on this.


 
  No disrespect towards the E17 or HD800...but powering your HD800 with the E17 is like filling a Bugatti Veyron with cheapo reglar gas. It'll run but it won't bring out it's full potential.


----------



## Ryujen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> No disrespect towards the E17 or HD800...but powering your HD800 with the E17 is like filling a Bugatti Veyron with cheapo reglar gas. It'll run but it won't bring out it's full potential.


 
  Yes my thoughts exactly (although I prefer the Aventador 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) but this setup will only be used until I can find an amp that can properly handle the HD800 that isn't too expensive (<$500) or too bulky.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ryujen said:


> Yes my thoughts exactly (although I prefer the Aventador
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Have fun, the next time I move up to more expensive can's I'll be looking at Schiit and some others. I'm thinking of just getting their amp and using my E17 as a DAC...as many $500+ DAC's use the same WM8740 used in the E17 and many members have chimed in that those chips....are hard to tell a difference with for most members (to justify the price)
   
  E17-->FiiO L7-->Asgard or Valhalla-->??headphone.
   
  That would take $1K out of my wallet >_< so this would be in a few years when my situation gets .....better.
   
  ASUS ROG is nice


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Have fun, the next time I move up to more expensive can's I'll be looking at Schiit and some others. I'm thinking of just getting their amp and using my E17 as a DAC...as many $500+ DAC's use the same WM8740 used in the E17 and many members have chimed in that those chips....are hard to tell a difference with for most members (to justify the price)
> 
> E17-->FiiO L7-->Asgard or Valhalla-->??headphone.
> 
> ...


 

 Hopefully in a few years there would be more competitors in the DAC/AMP market for us to play with!


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





ryujen said:


> Yes my thoughts exactly (although I prefer the Aventador
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Schiit Lyr or Hifiman Ef5 are both under 500. You can probably get them under 300 on the for sale forum. Both have more than enough power to drive the HD800s


----------



## Ryujen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Schiit Lyr or Hifiman Ef5 are both under 500. You can probably get them under 300 on the for sale forum. Both have more than enough power to drive the HD800s


 
  The Lyr and Valhalla seem like a good buy and it would be interesting to see how tube amps sound like. Only issue is that they are just too big for me to transport them in a luggage bag every few months (I travel a lot). I'm looking for something that has enough power for the HD800 and it doesn't necessarily have to be portable but rather, "transportable". I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Pico portable amp or ALO Rx mk2.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





ryujen said:


> The Lyr and Valhalla seem like a good buy and it would be interesting to see how tube amps sound like. Only issue is that they are just too big for me to transport them in a luggage bag every few months (I travel a lot). I'm looking for something that has enough power for the HD800 and it doesn't necessarily have to be portable but rather, "transportable". I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Pico portable amp or ALO Rx mk2.


 
  hahah that changes everything. Well i have the EF5 and it's not as big as it looks...but it is rather heavy. 
   
  There's a few guys here that have 'portable' rigs with their HD800s. I think one of them was named torontoraccoon...maybe ask him for some pointers haha


----------



## unknwn

Hello everyone,
  Can fiio e17 power up beyerdynamic dt990 pro? Is good, below/above average or bad for these cans?


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





unknwn said:


> Hello everyone,
> Can fiio e17 power up beyerdynamic dt990 pro? Is good, below/above average or bad for these cans?


 
   
  yes it can.  easily I would say, considering they drive my dt880 pro well.


----------



## schuh

I've had my E17 for about a week and I think it's gotta be one of best bang for the buck pieces out there. Last night I was stunned at how well it drove my k702s using the L9 out of my iPod. I never imagined an iPod could sound so good. My files are all Apple lossless and I played a variety of styles--rock, classical, jazz, acoustic. They all sounded fantastic with those terribly hard to drive phones.


----------



## metaldood

Quote: 





unknwn said:


> Hello everyone,
> Can fiio e17 power up beyerdynamic dt990 pro? Is good, below/above average or bad for these cans?


 
   
  Yes I think e17 is quite powerful to drive them.


----------



## bigalila

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> yes it can.  easily I would say, considering they drive my dt880 pro well.


 
  That is such good news.  I just picked up a ste of DT880 pro and they should be here any day!  Mail is a little unpredictable in "The Stan" so I hope they make here sooner than later.  Now I'm really excited about them.


----------



## bowei006

The E17 is more than enough to drive 80 ohm Beyer's from what I tested and it drives the Q701's quite well.


----------



## bigalila

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The E17 is more than enough to drive 80 ohm Beyer's from what I tested and it drives the Q701's quite well.


 
  I got the 250 ohm model on the way.  I read in a few places through the thread that it does well with the 250's also, but they could use a little more power.  But each person that says the sound good/great/excellent just keeps raising my hopes and getting me more excited!  I feel like a little kid on Christmas Eve, not morning yet, that's when I see them on our mail shelf.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bigalila said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





bigalila said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think you're going to be more than satisfied


----------



## ukflyboy

Fingers crossed it arrives pretty quickly. The other week I had my E17 posted to Bastion from the UK and it arrived in just on a week which is pretty good considering. Hope you have a safe tour any way dude!


----------



## bigalila

Quote: 





ukflyboy said:


> Hyogen,
> 
> Fingers crossed it arrives pretty quickly. The other week I had my E17 posted to Bastion from the UK and it arrived in just on a week which is pretty good considering. Hope you have a safe tour any way dude!


 
  Mail is usually pretty fast here from the states.  Oh, and my tour is almost over, 42 days!


----------



## lubczyk

Just wondering. How well does the Fiio e17 power 600 ohm headphones?


----------



## ukflyboy

Quote: 





bigalila said:


> Mail is usually pretty fast here from the states.  Oh, and my tour is almost over, 42 days!


 
  Sweet work. Dunno how you guys do your uber long tours out there but you're well and truly on the home stretch now. Keep your head down!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Just wondering. How well does the Fiio e17 power 600 ohm headphones?


 
   
  I powered some 600 ohm Beyers with it and it sounded quite good. No problem at all!!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I powered some 600 ohm Beyers with it and it sounded quite good. No problem at all!!


 
  Well how "loud" it gets is differnt for everyone and tracks they listen to. If you like a classical oldies guy then that's different as those songs usually aren't affected by the loudness war and are very low in "volume" and then there's the fact that 600 ohm Beyer's don't transfer to other brands.


----------



## UnarmedLad

Just got my E17 and I love it. However, what I find a bit weird is that when I select 24-bit as output format on Foobar and I play a 16-bit file, the E17 still displays '16bit'. It does this on both DS and WASAPI. Isn't it supposed to fill those low-order bits with zeroes (or preserve them when I use DSP)? When I play a 24-bit file it's fine however.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unarmedlad said:


> Just got my E17 and I love it. However, what I find a bit weird is that when I select 24-bit as output format on Foobar and I play a 16-bit file, the E17 still displays '16bit'. It does this on both DS and WASAPI. Isn't it supposed to fill those low-order bits with zeroes (or preserve them when I use DSP)? When I play a 24-bit file it's fine however.


 
  It won't display it if you are playing a 16bit file of course.


----------



## Fortunex

My E17's headphone jack got loosened and it would cut out on the left side if it wasn't held in a certain way. Pretty uncommon according to the guy at the Headphone Bar (fantastic store for anyone in Canada btw), but still a bummer. Got my replacement no problem though, no complaints at all.


----------



## bowei006

Like FiiO said. With so many devices their error on devices will go up. Clieos used 5% for example. When you only had 100 per month then you would only have 5 people with problems so it doesnt seem big. Step it up to 1K a month and you get 50 disfunctional ones if we apply the made up 5% error to that so now it seems like a lot. Plus people with no problems dont chime in while people that do almost always do increasing the "illusion" of a huge problem.

Fiio has said and recognized the jack problem and said they are about to invest approx $10,000 USD or ¥70,000 yen (twice the average chinese yearly income) to uograde their jack supplier or something(i forgot) so that we wont have this problem anymore. Not sure if they did it yet.

They will probably need to expand soon at the current rate. They have approx 100 employees(a lot for a enthusiast head fi loved company)


----------



## UnarmedLad

bowei006 said:


> It won't display it if you are playing a 16bit file of course.




I'm still pretty sure it's supposed to output those 8 extra bits, even if they are all zeroes when no dsp is used. For example, see this post, this post and this post.


----------



## hyogen

sold my Cowon J3--looking to get another already almost...haha.  Thought I'd dabble with Cowon D3 which has the spdif output which I just learned can connect to E17 and bypass the dac?  This would probably be best b/c it'd also be bypassing the D3 amp as well, right?  So no dual amping... 
   
  I'm guessing D3 DAC and E17 DAC are gonna be similar in quality being that they're both wolfsons.


----------



## bowei006

I dont know much about the Cowon you are talking about but it seems it will bypass.
Even if they are boyh cowons doesnt make them oh so similar. Implementation and model matters. Its why $509 DACs also use the wolfson in the E17 the WM8740. 


From what I see, and this is from personal observation. The settings are maximum output but foobar will send whatever the song is. I get a pause anytime the song is any other format past 44.1/16 as the E17 changes settings and foobar is slow at doing that.
Observations is very important in head fi. Doesnt mean everything you hear is also right. Heck i may be wrong right now as well, but personal observations and what I am personally seeing has yet to fail me in explaining things.


----------



## Gofre

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes use the JdSlabs amp as the full amp. The volume control on the E17 should not be activated, if it is, keep it at max. I'm not sure if the LO bypass switch changes this. Keep your computer at 100%, E17 at 100%, and speakers and dock and ipod at 100%. Use the JDSLabs amp to control volume.


 
   
  Yeah I was thinking this, surely if there's still volume and EQ controls then it's not bypassing the internal amp? Anybody have any idea on how to go about changing that, because I was under the impression it was automatic when docked into the E9/L7 and connected via USB.


----------



## bowei006

I do not have L9 or E9 so try the LO bypass switch on the E17.


----------



## Gofre

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I do not have L9 or E9 so try the LO bypass switch on the E17.


 
   
  Haha this is the first time I've actually noticed that, I think it had subconsciously registered as a gain switch =P Thanks, will give it a try when I find something thin enough to move it.
   
  EDIT: Got at it with a pen, it's functioning solely as a DAC now. Seems to have reduced the background noise when there's nothing playing too. Thanks again.


----------



## bowei006

Yeah. From my time here and on head fi I noticed that some things other take for granted or obvious are not to others and that is alright  glad that worked.


----------



## MattTCG

Bowei006...could the e17 be used just as a dac with say, one of the Little dot amps? If so, what cable would accomplish that?
   
   
   
  thanks...Matt


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Bowei006...could the e17 be used just as a dac with say, one of the Little dot amps? If so, what cable would accomplish that?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks...Matt


 
  FiiO L7, like the user above remember to use or switch the LO bypass switch or else you will still dual amp.
   
  When you plug the L7 into the E17 or E7. It will bypass the amp of the device and leave you just with the DAC. For the e17 you need to switch the LO bypass so that you aren't also engaging the amp.
   
  OF course this is with me thinking that the Little Dot amps take an 3.5mm input right? If not you can get an 3.5mm to RCA if it takes that but the L7 if I rememebr correctly outputs through 3.5mm


----------



## MattTCG

That would work fine. Where is the best place to get the L7?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> That would work fine. Where is the best place to get the L7?


 
  Amazon of course. BH is also good but Amazon would be best....for no reason really.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, thanks!!


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  thanks bowei.  Wow..might be worth getting one of these then (L7)....that way I don't double amp when I plug into any of my sources, right?  I wouldn't need it for Cowon D3 with digital out if I'm not mistaken   
   
  hopefully I don't need something like this to connect Cowon D3 and E17..... http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Toslink-Coaxial-Converter/dp/B000I98ZQY  if I understand correctly, D3 has coax digital output......


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> thanks bowei.  Wow..might be worth getting one of these then (L7)....that way I don't double amp when I plug into any of my sources, right?  I wouldn't need it for Cowon D3 with digital out if I'm not mistaken
> 
> hopefully I don't need something like this to connect Cowon D3 and E17..... http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Toslink-Coaxial-Converter/dp/B000I98ZQY  if I understand correctly, D3 has coax digital output......


 
  If the D3 has digital out then no.
   
  E17 supports Coaxil in.
   
  It has a little adapter for it but you need the right coaxil cable and type


----------



## dukeskd

I see that boweii has become an authority over FiiO amps.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> I see that boweii has become an authority over FiiO amps.


 
  Nope. I don't go onto other threads and I don't spend much time in real forums. Mainly on my member thread. I just go to any thread on my notifications list that has a Red number next to it and read it. And if there are questions I answer them. I try not to do discussion on this thread.
   
  I do help out when I do go on regular forums with FiiO stuff though. Only general questions usually.
   
  I wish I was an authority over FiiO amps. Then I would have an E9 sitting next to me. And the E19 next to future me in a year.


----------



## Mike33

Hi Guys,
   
  Can you use the optical input alongside the L7 in DAC mode?.
   
  I want to pass through optical from my Apple TV to my Schitt Valhalla using the L7 but from what I have read it looks like the L7 only allows the E17 to run as a USB DAC.
   
  thanks


----------



## ClieOS

mike33 said:


> Hi Guys,
> Can you use the optical input alongside the L7 in DAC mode?.




Yes, you can. Line-out will work with every mode except for AUX-in.


----------



## bowei006

To extend on his answer and quell confusion it seems the "USB in" on the L7 pic is used for charging. As this was originally for E7 that didnt have SPDIF.


----------



## ClieOS

bowei006 said:


> To extend on his answer and quell confusion it seems the "USB in" on the L7 pic is used for charging. As this was originally for E7 that didnt have SPDIF.




It can be used as USB charging on the E17, but USB-in will work just as well if the USB mode is selected.


----------



## drunkn

When using this with a Mac is better to use the optical output from the headphone port or should I plug it in as a USB device? Basically which one has better theoretical sound quality?


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





drunkn said:


> When using this with a Mac is better to use the optical output from the headphone port or should I plug it in as a USB device? Basically which one has better theoretical sound quality?


 
  Both should be equal.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I see--allow me to get this straight--with the L7, I can use the E17 as JUST the DAC using digital out via D3...and bypass* E17'*s Amp....and only use the D3 amp, right?  This should be the most ideal, right, if I had the D3 and E17.   
   
  or wait......if I'm using the L7, doesn't that bypass E17's amp as well?  So there'd be no amp in this setup???  
   
  D3 ---> optical/coax digital/spdif/cable/adapter ---> Spdif In (E17) --->  L7 LOD --> headphones....


----------



## Gofre

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I see--allow me to get this straight--with the L7, I can use the E17 as JUST the DAC using digital out via D3...and bypass* E17'*s Amp....and only use the D3 amp, right?  This should be the most ideal, right, if I had the D3 and E17.
> 
> or wait......if I'm using the L7, doesn't that bypass E17's amp as well?  So there'd be no amp in this setup???
> 
> D3 ---> optical/coax digital/spdif/cable/adapter ---> Spdif In (E17) --->  L7 LOD --> headphones....


 
   
  If you go straight to digital-out on the D3, and use the L7 and flip the LO bypass switch on the E17, then yes, there would be no amp in the setup.


----------



## bowei006

@drunkn
It doesnt matter if you cant hear the difference. USb will do as its easier to use and maintain and can charge your device.

@hypgen
Yeah if you use L7 there will be no amp. Outputting a digital stream from D3 already means the amp is bypassed on the D3


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @drunkn
> It doesnt matter if you cant hear the difference. USb will do as its easier to use and maintain and can charge your device.
> 
> @hypgen
> Yeah if you use L7 there will be no amp. Outputting a digital stream from D3 already means the amp is bypassed on the D3


 

 so....there'd be no point in doing that then, right?  -_-
   
  What could be a useful thing to use the L7 with the E17 then?  Any other source using headphone jack (out) or even the D3 (using headphone out).....  that would be single amping....whereas if you don't use L7 = dual amping no matter what the volume on the source player, right?
   
  thanks 
   
  Since you've never heard the Galaxy S sound + voodoo....perhaps I should send you one to borrow/test out :-o  Only after I sold the J3, did I realize the J3 IS indeed a better source than the Galaxy S + voodoo.............    the headphone jack sound is extremely clean--and REALLY powerful--no amp needed like a lot of people say.   I was able to tell the difference clearly when plugging into my car audio


----------



## bowei006

The purpose of the L7 is for people that want to use E17 as DAC but use their own powerful amps instead and not dual amp.

It isnt useless with your D3. It would essentially make your D3 an awesome source as it outputs digital stream but if you want an easy portable setup then you either dual amp.. Or use D3. Unless D3 has line out which i dont think it does as you didnt say that.

Its ok. Ill work my way to get my hands on one, one of these days but again. I doubt that its clean and its probably coloration that makes it sound good. Coloration to fit is needed just as much as flatness. Many mainstream songs dont play well on flat equipment or close flat. So to combat that its needed for some subjective tuning to get it right


----------



## lubczyk

Just to make sure I'm not getting scammed:
   
  The Fiio e17 should cost between $130 and $140 new with prices not being inflated right? Getting it for $185 or $205 means I would be best served waiting a little, right?


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Just to make sure I'm not getting scammed:
> 
> The Fiio e17 should cost between $130 and $140 new with prices not being inflated right? Getting it for $185 or $205 means I would be best served waiting a little, right?


 
   
  It should cost $140 - $150 USD if it is new.
   
  If the prices are higher than that, then it is due to supply and demand driving up the price.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The purpose of the L7 is for people that want to use E17 as DAC but use their own powerful amps instead and not dual amp.
> 
> It isnt useless with your D3. It would essentially make your D3 an awesome source as it outputs digital stream but if you want an easy portable setup then you either dual amp.. Or use D3. Unless D3 has line out which i dont think it does as you didnt say that.
> 
> Its ok. Ill work my way to get my hands on one, one of these days but again. I doubt that its clean and its probably coloration that makes it sound good. Coloration to fit is needed just as much as flatness. Many mainstream songs dont play well on flat equipment or close flat. So to combat that its needed for some subjective tuning to get it right


 
   
  can't it also be used to single amp with any other source such as iPod (via headphone jack)?   thanks--and sorry if you've already made this clear


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> can't it also be used to single amp with any other source such as iPod (via headphone jack)?   thanks--and sorry if you've already made this clear


 
   

 I am not sure what you are proposing here. The L7 only has a line out function, so it cannot be connected directly to the iPod.
   
  Are you thinking of iPod -> headphone jack -> Fiio E17 -> L7 -> another amplifier that accepts line in -> headphones?


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> can't it also be used to single amp with any other source such as iPod (via headphone jack)?   thanks--and sorry if you've already made this clear


 
   
  Think you might be getting a little confused - so I'll see if I can simplify it a bit.  From your previous posts + what I've read about the D3 & E17 ......
   

 D3 - you have two options for audio output :
  * headphone (analogue) out - using the D3 dac and amp
  * spdif (digital) out - using D3 as transport interface only - so bypassing both amp and dac.
  
 E17 - you have four options for audio output:- depending on input option chosen
  * headphone out using E17 as amp only, if fed analogue signal from line-in (most common if used as portable)
  * headphone out using E17 as both amp and dac, if fed digital signal (either via spdif or usb)
  * analogue line level out via L7 cable - so you're using the E17 as a dac, and outputting a  line-level signal - eg to a better amp.
  * analogue line level out to E9 (by connecting via dock to L9 amp) - using E17's dac and E9's amp
   
  Now as to your question regarding the iPod etc - unless you have a proprietory cable which is taking a digital signal from the iPod (think HP-P1 or CLAS set-up), then using a standard LOD from the iPod you're only extracting a line-level analogue signal from the iPod and using the E17 amp only (using the iPod dac).  Conversely, if you were using the iPod headphone out, you're using both the iPod dac and amp, then feeding that to the E17 (double amping).  Either way, the L7 has no real use, as you're not actually using the E17 dac.
   
  I noticed above that you also seem to be a little confused wrt using the D3 and E17.  You mentioned:
*D3 ---> optical/coax digital/spdif/cable/adapter ---> Spdif In (E17) --->  L7 LOD --> headphones....*
   
  There's no real point in that set-up for two reasons:
  [a] You'd be using the D3 as a digital source only - which kind of defeats having the D3.  it would be different if it had huge capacity.  Suppose it's a different story if you don't like the DAC on the D3 and prefer the one on the E17 though.
* Going D3 -> digital signal -> E17 -> line level analogue signal via L7 -> headphones ...... means you'd be left with a line-level signal, you really want an amplifier in the chain somewhere.  The whole point of the L7 is to bypass the E17 amp, using it's dac only, and then go to a better amp.
   
  An example of using an E17 + L7 set-up would be:
 PC or laptop via either USB or SPDIF to E17 to L7 to tube amp.  So you take a digital signal from your source (PC), use the DAC on the E17 to decode to analogue, and then send that signal at line level to your preferred amp.
   
  Hope that helps.
*


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  So, I thought I could use sound from headphone jack of an iPod or other DAP.....connect to AUX IN of E17...and then use the L7 to bypass the Amp of the E17...  I see now that there'd be no point since the E17 wouldn't be used as either DAC or Amp.
   
  What I initially thought/hoped for was Digital out from Cowon D3 into SPDIF IN on E17 (use E17 DAC) and then (for no reason bypass the E17 Amp using L7).  I didn't realize that the digital signal from the Cowon would be unamped. 
   
  Quote: 





brooko said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*

   
  Thank you very much for your thorough explanation.  Yes, that helps a ton and clears up all misunderstandings I think   My mind wasn't working very well since I pulled an all-nighter as well  
   
  and wow, I was hoping I could just get a simple coax cable--looks like the D3 uses a proprietary USB cable that has both video and audio.. http://www.amazon.com/COWON-TV-Out-Cable-V5/dp/B003AYZTA4/ref=pd_sim_e_7   
*


----------



## wje

Sadly, for those of us in the U.S., it appears that late-June is when more of the E17s will be back in stock.  Until that time, it looks like if someone needs one, they'll be gouged $175 - $200 instead of the $139 (MSRP).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





wje said:


> Sadly, for those of us in the U.S., it appears that late-June is when more of the E17s will be back in stock.  Until that time, it looks like if someone needs one, they'll be gouged $175 - $200 instead of the $139 (MSRP).


 
  We shouldn't complain. It is worse in Europe. The suggested or first set thought of MSRP was $150 but man sold at $140. The average price for early batches was $139-$150. Currently it is $210. But at least you get free shipping.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Very sorry, we have ordered all the component in 3 months ago, but one important IC is delay to July, so the we have to delay the production of the 3rd batch of ALPEN to July. 
   
  About the price, hope you can understand, that in Euro, even the online shops must be charged 20% VAT which is far more expensive than in US, as you know, it is not decided by FiiO or our agents.


----------



## hyogen

Should I leave the Excluse Mode boxes checked?  If they are checked, doesn't that mean that different apps can override the settings that I chose above? 
   
  thanks


----------



## IKE60

hyogen said:


> Should I leave the Excluse Mode boxes checked?  If they are checked, doesn't that mean that different apps can override the settings that I chose above?
> 
> thanks




As I understand it, Exclusive mode means that an application can have exclusive use of the device. For example, if you change your settings in Media Monkey (or your music player) to use the SPDIF exclusively, no other applications will be able to use that output while that app is running. Primarily, this will prevent Windows sounds, email notifications, etc. from being heard while your music is playing. Since your music app will have exclusive control, it may also prevent unwanted clicks, skips, pauses, etc. from other processes interfering with that output (not sure this is really an issue).

I would leave the Windows setting on (as you have it).


----------



## UnarmedLad

Exclusive Mode is also known as WASAPI in Foobar.


----------



## hyogen

thank you


----------



## preolt

So those of us who are looking to purchase will probably have to hold off till July? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I will wait because I am really interested in the feature set of this little amp/dac. 
  Just out of curiosity I found the Fiio e17 through a quick google search at accesoryjack.com They are offering it for the regular 150$ price point? Do you guys think it is safe to purchase it thought this store. From what I know they are based in Hong Kong so the shipping would take a while and I just wanna make sure that I would be getting the real deal and not some cheap knock off. (not to stereo type, just looking at track records).
  Thanks Guys.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





preolt said:


> So those of us who are looking to purchase will probably have to hold off till July?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/AccessoryJack
   
http://www.webutation.net/go/review/accessoryjack.com#
   
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/headphones-etc/how-to-avoid-buying-fake-headphones
   
   
   


> Unauthorised Online Dealers
> 
> The following websites are known resellers of fake Audio-Technica headphones:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   


> *Shure*
> List supplied by: Shure UK
> 
> Authorised Online Dealers
> ...


 
   
   
   


> Hi
> 
> I recently bought a pair of audio technica ATH -W1000x from accessoryjack one of the 'dont buy from' retailers mentioned above. After receiving them I checked with a very helpful Audio Technica person in Hong Kong who confirmed that the serial numbers were those of a genuine audio technica products. He also said that they were unaware of there being fake ATH-w1000 around.
> 
> ...


 
   
   


> RE: How to avoid buying fake headphones
> 
> 
> _bryanl01_ wrote:
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Accesory Jack is not an authorized FiiO retailer. As you will see above they appear to be legit but as they are not authorized dealers, companies like Shure and Audio Technica don't like you buying from them as you will get no warranty.
   
   
  Bascically that looks to be legit, but if it has problems, you may be screwed if Accesory Jack doesn't honor any warranty promises if it even has any. Up to you.


----------



## dukeskd

Patience is a virtue


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





preolt said:


> So those of us who are looking to purchase will probably have to hold off till July?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I believe the Hifiman store still has the E17 for 140 USD...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> I believe the Hifiman store still has the E17 for 140 USD...


 
http://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=134
   
  They are also an authorized dealer which is even better, but the news is the same.
   
   
   


> *Out of stock for now. E17 will be in stock from June. Any preorder during this period can enjoy free shipping.*


 
   
   
  Yes, these are selling like hotcakes.


----------



## ALKAID

can i use fiio e17 with sansa clip zip ? can anyone explain me how to connect it... sorry for a poor english and such a newbie question


----------



## IKE60

Your english is fine. The ClipZip would only connect to the E17 one way: 1/8" male-to-male from the ClipZip headphone jack to the E17 AUX jack. Of course, you would only be using the E17 as an amp, not a DAC.


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> Your english is fine. The ClipZip would only connect to the E17 one way: 1/8" male-to-male from the ClipZip headphone jack to the E17 AUX jack. Of course, you would only be using the E17 as an amp, not a DAC.


 

 I understand that for iPods, one can use the L3 or L9 cable to go from the iPod to the E17 (through the Auxiliary in).
   
  What advantage does the L3/L9 have over simply using a male-to-male line from the headphone jack of the iPod to the E17?


----------



## preolt

Thanks for the posts guys. So people are enjoying the performance from this little guy?
   
  I have a pair of Dennon ahd2000s and a pair of audio technica ATH-M50s. I am hoping to use this amp on the go with the M50s. First off I dont trust people with my Dennons and also they just look more expensive then my M50s even though the prices arnt that different (about 70$ when I purchased), I dont know probably all in my head, plus I feel the M50s will hold up better over all traveling. All personal pref I guess.
   
  Any way I will probably be placing my pre-order in then for the Fiio e17 and hope for the best. Thanks for all of the info on recognized dealers I looked up a few reviews in google searching and tried to look around head fi for peoples experiences with accessoryjack but then I read some where that some Chinese companies forge fake review sites and reviews so I became rather worried and iffy about ordering from them. Thanks again every one. Will post my thoughts when I receive mine.


----------



## ALKAID

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> Your english is fine. The ClipZip would only connect to the E17 one way: 1/8" male-to-male from the ClipZip headphone jack to the E17 AUX jack. Of course, you would only be using the E17 as an amp, not a DAC.


 

 is there a way to use that e17 as a dac too ? cause it will be  waste of money if i can only use the amp and not the DAC.
  btw if i use e 17 with rocoo p, can i use the dac/amp feature ? cause i am consider to buy sansa clip zip or rocoo p, thx


----------



## hyogen

looking to get an EQ for the PC to compliment my E17 which I'm now using more as a dac/amp


----------



## bowei006

@darkblade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdM-K8k5KMw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

iPods with L3 or L9 can bypass ipods non audiophile amp and internal eadphone jack corcuitry allowing for a very clean signal to go to only one external audiophile one(or more)

@Alkaid
With a sansa clip, the E17 can not be used as a DAC. You can use it as an amp with your sansa which will dual amp. And you can then also use with your computer as a DAC.

It does not seem the rocoo can output a digital signal theough it"s USB port so I would half say no, that the Rocoo cant be used with the E17 so that the DAC will be used. You will dual amp there as well.


----------



## yungyaw

Not sure if this has been posted before, but could this be one of the way we can connect our iDevices (iPhone, iPad, iPod) to FiiO E17?
   

Matrix 24 bit 96 KHz USB to Coaxial Converter
  http://www.matrixelectronics.net/matrix-24-bit-96-khz-usb-to-coaxial-converter-p-197.html
   
  This converter is powered by USB and since the E17 has internal battery, this could be a portable solution.


----------



## bowei006

If the matrix outputs a digital coaxil signal that has the digital lpcm stream of the audio files(im not sure of exactly its specs so Im making it exact) then yes the E17 can be used like this. There is already a USB solution but this if my above confitions are followed will work as well unless the device is faulty.

But as this has not been tested with E17 and I dont know about this specific device I do not make any promises and am just using my knowledge to formulate an answer. Because sometimes these devices have another cavet, dont do my conditions above, or are faulty. Again do at your risk and if it works then tell us


----------



## yungyaw

According to Matrix 24 bit 96 KHz USB to Coaxial Converter product page, the converter design is based on TI's professional USB receiving chip TAS1020B and digital audio transmitter DIT4096. I do not have experience with these chips but a bit of Googling I found that Musical Fidelity V-Link USB-S/PDIF converter ($169) (Review: http://www.stereophile.com/content/musical-fidelity-v-link-usb-spdif-converter-0) also using the same pair of chips. Of course there can be many different designs and implementation, but maybe this show that the Matrix USB-Coaxial converter meets certain expect of compatibility. I am not sure. Maybe like bowei006 said, we have to test it to be sure.


----------



## bigalila

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> I think you're going to be more than satisfied


 
  Uhmm, that's an understatement!  The E17 with the DT880 pro's is a whole new world.  I think my wallet will get a break now, I'm sure I'll be happy with this setup for a while.  But...  a nice little desktop tube amp for home...  hmmmmnn?


----------



## Troif

I can say that my E17 paired to HD650 is magic... nice sound, crisped, bright, clear... recommended. I use the DAC with computer.


----------



## Mutombo

Is anybody using the E17 as a dac between a computer and a Schiit Asgard?  I've been having problems with noise/interference and it's driving me nuts.
   
  My setup is computer/USB -> Fiio E17 with L7 LOD (lo bypass) -> Schiit Asgard -> HD650.  I've tried unplugging my wireless mouse, changing USB ports, turning off wifi, etc, and the noise always remains.
   
  When I plug the same setup into my Objective2 amp it is dead silent.  When I plug my ipod/iphone directly as a source into the Asgard it is silent.  Any ideas?


----------



## Half Decaf

Quote: 





alkaid said:


> is there a way to use that e17 as a dac too ? cause it will be  waste of money if i can only use the amp and not the DAC.
> btw if i use e 17 with rocoo p, can i use the dac/amp feature ? cause i am consider to buy sansa clip zip or rocoo p, thx


 

 There is no way to use the E17 as a DAC with that Sansa. All is not lost, tho. From what I've heard the volume controls on the E17 is superior to that found on the Sansa, so music would sound better when played at volumes that are only adjusted by the E17.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





half decaf said:


> There is no way to use the E17 as a DAC with that Sansa. All is not lost, tho. From what I've heard the volume controls on the E17 is superior to that found on the Sansa, so music would sound better when played at volumes that are only adjusted by the E17.


 

 Which is basically what an amp does.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





half decaf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  most likely you'll want close to 100% volume on your Sansa though...........   that's what Bowei said.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote: 





alkaid said:


> is there a way to use that e17 as a dac too ? cause it will be  waste of money if i can only use the amp and not the DAC.
> btw if i use e 17 with rocoo p, can i use the dac/amp feature ? cause i am consider to buy sansa clip zip or rocoo p, thx


 

 @ ALKAID: If you were to get a sansa fuze (v1 or v2, but not the fuze plus) then you could use an LOD to bypass the fuze's internal DAC* Amp *just like an iPod, and use the DAC *Amp* in the E17. But for the clip (clip, clip+, or clip zip) you're out of luck...
   
05/17/2012 @ 01:58pm : Edited for accuracy. Apologies for error.


----------



## hyogen

i had no idea you could get a LOD for a sansa player.  why is it that the clip+ is so popular when the fuze has line out?


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> i had no idea you could get a LOD for a sansa player.  why is it that the clip+ is so popular when the fuze has line out?


 

 form factor.


----------



## unknwn

Hello,
  i recently received E17. I have a question. Where does it take power from while usb cable is plugged in? From battery or usb? Also where does it take power from with different usb charging settings(on or off)? I would like to know so i could save some battery charging cycles..


----------



## bowei006

.*@flacvest
Last I remember the LOD for the other Sansa was just like the iPods or iphones LOD where it ONLY bypassed the amp and NOT the DAC. Correct me if I am wrong but if the sansa could bypass DAC for so cheap it would be a top device*
Ive checked around and I seem to be right. I am bolding this as the difference is huge and someone can make a mistake. The ios can have dac bypassed but it is expensive. $200+ for a desktop bypasser and $500 + for a portable one. Ipad is cheaper to bypass for reasons i wont get into.

@unknwn
It is not fully known and just based off observation though but while plugged into computer with charging on and if the E17 has a low battery my guess is it does what modt devices in that setup do. Uses the battery simualtaneous to battery charge. Some say it's bad or dont like it and yes it will have an impact on battery life. If you intend for the E17 to be your main device for more than 5years then charge it like an E11. As in once its out of power , hook it up to a very good high quality slow charger and dont use it. It eill take a day to charge so you might want a new E17. That setup is to precocious really and is for worrie prople. I did some math and if theoretically it will take 3 years of continued E17 use and drain to fully deplete the battery. This means that if the E17 is on for 24/7 for 3 years it will loose its battery. A replacement battery is being looked for and at worst you can buy one and pay fiio to ship it to you and replace it yourself.

When te device is plugged into usb and chg is off then it uses battery. Although it is thought that a bit of current from USB naturally goes to the E17 as users report longer battery when plugged i to USB even with charge off. I have not done this and I dont average scores or test it.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





ananalogspirit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ah i see.  bigger or maybe not flat on the back making it more difficult to attach to an amp?


----------



## bowei006

Please read my above first post hyogen.


----------



## hyogen

Not sure to which post you're referring


----------



## beaver316

I have a major problem. I fear my E17 is broken. While charging it and simultaneously using it on my laptop through usb, i unplugged it and all of a sudden it switches itself off. Pressing the power button does nothing. When i plug it back in, the red light around the power button comes on but is very very dim, like there's not enough power feeding it. However Windows recognizes it because it appears in Playback devices.
   
  Please tell me it's not bricked


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Sounds to me like a power issue... maybe a faulty battery that doesn't retain the charge, which would explain why it still works when plugged in & powered by USB. However, I would certainly first double-check that it IS charging while plugged in, and not simply having charging disabled. Also, if your laptop USB port doesn't provide enough juice, only enough to run the E17, the charging may be slow to none...
   
  I have had an issue where I had disabled sleep on my E7, turned everything off incl. the E9, then came back the next day to grab it & go only to find that it had almost completely depleted itself overnight instead of being fully charged...duh.


----------



## beaver316

Good news  After unplugging it and leaving it for half an hour it now works. I plugged it in and the red light is bright. It also switches on now  
   
  Btw i had charge enabled, and there was no way of telling whether it was charging or not. And i know the problem wasn't from my laptop because plugging into the wall yielded the same result.
   
  Anyway im just happy it works, i'll keep an eye out to see if this happens again. It still may be a faulty battery.
   
  On another note the battery life for this thing is awesome. I've had mine for nearly a month and today is the first time im charging it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Good news  After unplugging it and leaving it for half an hour it now works. I plugged it in and the red light is bright. It also switches on now
> 
> Btw i had charge enabled, and there was no way of telling whether it was charging or not. And i know the problem wasn't from my laptop because plugging into the wall yielded the same result.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the same problem occasionallly where it won't turn on. The solution for that is to plug the USB cable in and when the red light comes on just turn it on and unplug.
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Not sure to which post you're referring


 
   
   


> *@flacvest
> Last I remember the LOD for the other Sansa was just like the iPods or iphones LOD where it ONLY bypassed the amp and NOT the DAC. Correct me if I am wrong but if the sansa could bypass DAC for so cheap it would be a top device*
> Ive checked around and I seem to be right. I am bolding this as the difference is huge and someone can make a mistake. The ios can have dac bypassed but it is expensive. $200+ for a desktop bypasser and $500 + for a portable one. Ipad is cheaper to bypass for reasons i wont get into.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

@bowei006: I've corrected my post. Thanks for pointing out the error.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ananalogspirit said:


> @bowei006: I've corrected my post. Thanks for pointing out the error.


 
  Thanks for the support FLACvest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Some people might not have taken that kindly that I pointed it out, but stuff like that is pretty important. And thanks for editing it. Some don't do that and when searched it will pose a problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I also apologize for my spelling errors and grammatical mistakes. I was on my phone in the morning and just had to respond to it ASAP.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Are they going to offer a case for the Fiio E17? I wanted to use the dual lock, but not on the bare E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Are they going to offer a case for the Fiio E17? I wanted to use the dual lock, but not on the bare E17.


 
  They do offer one. Heck it comes for free!


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Are they going to offer a case for the Fiio E17? I wanted to use the dual lock, but not on the bare E17.


 

 i use dual lock on E17 and a lot of other stuff.  both normal and low profile dual lock...  it comes off easily enough and doesn't; take off the paint or anything with it.


----------



## IKE60

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Btw i had charge enabled, and there was no way of telling whether it was charging or not. And i know the problem wasn't from my laptop because plugging into the wall yielded the same result.


 
   
  From the manual:
  - Red = Charging
  - Blue = On
  - Purple = On & Charging
   
  Somewhere up in those 1000s of posts in this thread, a FiiO employee said the E17 draws 150 mA even with USB charging off.  I think most USB ports are limited to 500 mA.  If you've got an unpowered hub or splitter, etc. it may be less.  I don't know your setup, but it sounds like you may not be able to charge and use the unit simultaneously.  However, it shouldn't drain while connected.


----------



## Leynar

Does anyone know if the E17 picks up interference from something like an Iphone4?


----------



## Bleether

I personally have at least 15 hours of use with my iphone 4 and i have NOT detected  any interference with wifi and data enabled.... However, i have read a couple posts of people that do experience interference...
  Quote:


leynar said:


> Does anyone know if the E17 picks up interference from something like an Iphone4?


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> Are they going to offer a case for the Fiio E17? I wanted to use the dual lock, but not on the bare E17.


 
   
  I had the same reservations before putting the velcro on my E17, but the adhesive does come off easily with out hurting the E17 if you choose to do so. IDK if u seen the mod i did, but there are photos in my profile if u want to check it out.
   
  In the end, having the velcro on the E17, for me, is not a big deal at all. Its either in its case, sitting on its butt, or attached to my iphone. I never realized how important the fuggin E17 was going to be. I use it every single day. I take it everywhere i go!


----------



## hyogen

whoa.. just noticed my E17 wasn't charging via usb cable in a wall USB adapter....  It started charging when I turned ON the USB Charge in the menu.
   
  Had the battery been completely dead, I would have been unable to power or charge my unit???
   
  Or perhaps find a different USB wall charger or normal miniUSB charger.......


----------



## Leynar

Quote:  





> I personally have at least 15 hours of use with my iphone 4 and i have NOT detected  any interference with wifi and data enabled.... However, i have read a couple posts of people that do experience interference...


 
   
      Thanks for the prompt answer!
   
   
  Can anyone comment on how the tf10 sounds with the e17?


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> whoa.. just noticed my E17 wasn't charging via usb cable in a wall USB adapter....  It started charging when I turned ON the USB Charge in the menu.
> 
> Had the battery been completely dead, I would have been unable to power or charge my unit???
> 
> Or perhaps find a different USB wall charger or normal miniUSB charger.......


 

 I know I remember reading that when E17 dies due to dead batt, The USB Charge will be will be turned ON automatically. Haven't tried it though.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





leynar said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 very good.  In my experience, they don't open up as much soundstage wise as other amps for some odd reason.  even less powerful amps.   but just my opinion...


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> From the manual:
> - Red = Charging
> - Blue = On
> - Purple = On & Charging
> ...


 
   
  Yeah i think my usb port doesnt provide as much power as the unit sucks up while in use.


----------



## autoexec

Another FAQ that I can't find due to the very long thread: Why should I use the L9 connector when using IPod when I can use the L8 or standard 3.5mm connector that is included? Thanks!
   
  Edit: found it! just few pages back. So that I can bypass the amp of the ipod. cool! lol


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> Another FAQ that I can't find due to the very long thread: Why should I use the L9 connector when using IPod when I can use the L8 or standard 3.5mm connector that is included? Thanks!
> 
> Edit: found it! just few pages back. So that I can bypass the amp of the ipod. cool! lol


 

 I asked the same question 2 pages back 
   
  This is the answer bowei006 gave:
  
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @darkblade
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdM-K8k5KMw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> iPods with L3 or L9 can bypass ipods non audiophile amp and internal eadphone jack corcuitry allowing for a very clean signal to go to only one external audiophile one(or more)


----------



## bowei006

There have been some mishaps with what happens when battery runs out. Sometimes Ive talked to users that had charging off and it did t charge or anything. The end solution for them was plugging it in somewhere else or into a wall charger fixed the problem.

Yes L9 bypasses the "non audiophile parts and headphone circuitry" of the iPod and sends a clean analog signal to the amp


----------



## micksaddress

hi guys, i have a question,
   
  if i wanted to buy the E17, whats the cheapest DAP i could pair with it, that would allow me to use the DAC in the E17?
   
  Cheers,
  Mick


----------



## bowei006

micksaddress said:


> hi guys, i have a question,
> 
> if i wanted to buy the E17, whats the cheapest DAP i could pair with it, that would allow me to use the DAC in the E17?
> 
> ...




Your computer would be the cheapest "digital audio player" availble that allows you to use the E17s DAC.

For a pmp its harder as the device needs to support digital out through USB, Optical or coaxil. For USB out the device needs OTG support and needs to supply at least 150mA to the E17 without a restriction to work. For Coaxil and optical if its a pmp that supports an output of that then that would work to. The comes the trouble with spdif of how you will carry a device that has this weird semi long cut down to size coaxil or optical cable awkwardly sticking out and tied together. For USB you need to either find a way of getting over 150mA of power through USB (if it can output digital and software supports it and is active) then you have to do crazy experiments with powered battery USB hubs or even a USB "de limiter". 

Ive heard of powered USB working and others with other DACs have had moderate success with the adapters that claim to allow more power out of the port.


----------



## micksaddress

Thanks, I thught i might have its own rechargeable batter for power? I have a pair of sennheiser ie80s that sound great, but my source at the moment is a Galaxy Nexus phone using poweramp playing 320kps mp3 or flac.
   
  I am interesting to seeing what the difference would be with a higher quality source, and rather than invest big money in something like the colorfly c4 pro or a sony z1060 i was thinking of buying the e17, and a lower priced dap that would acheive the same or better quality
   
  Cheers,
  Mick


----------



## pask

Hi, I have one question about E17; there are some difference to old fiio e7 with low impedence (32 - 60 ohm) headphones? 
  I'm sorry for my very basically english but I'm studying it.


----------



## bowei006

@micks
You can try but a most DAPs are $300+. Hyogen has mentioned the cowon D3 may be what you are looking for.

How one hears and responds to sound is different. Knowing what to hear for and if the difference is worth it changes for everyone.

@pask
The E7 and E17 have different amplifiers. Both are rated to drive impendances of what you posted and both generally have no problems with those. It may or may not be worth it to you as headphones in that impendance range "generally" arent hard to drive. Like I said above its up to you to see if it is worth it. 
Keep working on your studies in English Pask  you''ll get there someday! As long as you dont give up. And thanks for the effort! Many dont like to post as they dont think their English is good enough. But hey! Post and we will figure it out  English is not my first langauge either. It is my third fluent one!


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





micksaddress said:


> Thanks, I thught i might have its own rechargeable batter for power? I have a pair of sennheiser ie80s that sound great, but my source at the moment is a Galaxy Nexus phone using poweramp playing 320kps mp3 or flac.
> 
> I am interesting to seeing what the difference would be with a higher quality source, and rather than invest big money in something like the colorfly c4 pro or a sony z1060 i was thinking of buying the e17, and a lower priced dap that would acheive the same or better quality
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi micksaddress
   
  I am pretty much in the same situation as you. I also have a pair of sennheiser ie80s and was looking for a good DAP to pair my E17 with, but i learned that it's pretty much impossible to use the dac from the e17 with a dap, unless you use that expensive imod or the hp thingy with the ipod (i forgot the name). So currently im just using the e17 on my laptop which obviously makes use of both the dac and amp, and let me tell you, this bad boy paired with the sennheiser ie80 sounds phenomenal with my flac files.
   
  But i thought of the next best alternative. Why not find a dap with an already awesome dac, and then pair the e17 with that to make use of it's amp? One such dap is the iPod classic 5.5 gen. It has a Wolfson dac much like the E17. Connect it to the E17 using an LOD and you get the best of both worlds, awesome dac from iPod and amp from E17. What makes the ipod 5.5 even more attractive is the fact that you can Rockbox it. 
   
  I have an Android phone myself, so im actually waiting for developers (or Google themselves) to implement USB audio into Android, that way i'll be able to connect my Desire hd to my E17 and use both dac and amp from the E17. It doesn't seem too far off.


----------



## bowei006

@micks
Some android phones with OTG support and cyanogen can output a digital signal. Its still iffy and your phone may be supported so check it out.
Sorry for double post. Hard for me to go back atm.


----------



## AstralStorm

I'm extra annoyed. This is the second product where FiiO build quality happened.
  Specifically, damaged jacks. So now I have two amps that I cannot use.
  Also, do not ever use SMD mini USB - these also break, like the one in my FiiO E7.
   
  Those SMD connectors are really flimsy.
   
  Seriously, they should really replace the jacks with something that costs $0.05 more apiece but can actually withstand use and doesn't eject minijacks.
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm not buying anything from FiiO again until they fix their jacks and ports.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 my galaxy s in my sig can do USB audio (on stock rom).  but only via the USB desk dock (included). 
   
  Also, about to possibly list my new Cowon D3 already--just cuz.  Let me know if you're interested -_-  I have tried iPod 5.5 (rockboxed) and I prefer the cowon sound.  FYI, all these mentioned devices including galaxy S phone, Cowon, and iPod 5.5 have the Wolfson DAC, as well as the E17.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





astralstorm said:


> I'm extra annoyed. This is the second product where FiiO build quality happened.
> Specifically, damaged jacks. So now I have two amps that I cannot use.
> Also, do not ever use SMD mini USB - these also break, like the one in my FiiO E7.
> 
> ...


 
   
  We already change the mini USB to different type of SMD mini usb which have 2 pins soldered on the PCB. about the headphone socket, We already change to some better kinds of socket, but it can not make sure all will be OK because we sold out so many E7/E17.


----------



## Mama70

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Your computer would be the cheapest "digital audio player" availble that allows you to use the E17s DAC.
> For a pmp its harder as the device needs to support digital out through USB, Optical or coaxil. For USB out the device needs OTG support and needs to supply at least 150mA to the E17 without a restriction to work. For Coaxil and optical if its a pmp that supports an output of that then that would work to. The comes the trouble with spdif of how you will carry a device that has this weird semi long cut down to size coaxil or optical cable awkwardly sticking out and tied together. For USB you need to either find a way of getting over 150mA of power through USB (if it can output digital and software supports it and is active) then you have to do crazy experiments with powered battery USB hubs or even a USB "de limiter".
> Ive heard of powered USB working and others with other DACs have had moderate success with the adapters that claim to allow more power out of the port.


 

 I've tried Fiio E17 with Nokia E7. Did not work. Nokia give's an error 'Device draws too much power'. Usb charging is off.
  Nokia E7 user manual states 
  "If you connect a hard drive that requires
 more than 200 mA of power, use an
 external power source for the hard drive."
   
  I used Windows Device Manager to check how much it reports Fiio to use power, and it was 500mA ( max allowed) even when USB charging was off. Don't know how reliable that measurement is.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mama70 said:


> I've tried Fiio E17 with Nokia E7. Did not work. Nokia give's an error 'Device draws too much power'. Usb charging is off.
> Nokia E7 user manual states
> "If you connect a hard drive that requires
> more than 200 mA of power, use an
> ...


 
  There have been users reporting that using a powered USB hub fixes this.
   
  Device Manager? I think you are looking at total as 500mA is a very common max power per port number for USB.


----------



## AstralStorm

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We already change the mini USB to different type of SMD mini usb which have 2 pins soldered on the PCB. about the headphone socket, We already change to some better kinds of socket, but it can not make sure all will be OK because we sold out so many E7/E17.


 
  That's great to hear. Hopefully the new ones will not have the issues.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





astralstorm said:


> That's great to hear. Hopefully the new ones will not have the issues.


 
  "The new ones will not have the issues" is an overstatement. There is nothing wrong with the E17 as a whole. IT's just that specific models due to the parts and technology used may not hold up well. There is always a percent of bad units or units that can break. With so many E17's sold the percentage although the same looks bigger.
   
  Like CLIEO's example. If FiiO had a 5% rate of defect in their units. When they only shipped 100 per month. That would at most be 5 people with problems THEORETICALLY. Let's say they now make 1000 units per month. The rate of defect of 5% has not changed. That would make it 50 units with a defective solder or problem at most per month THEORECTICALLY. The rate is the same but because of more expansion and more units it seems like there is more "problems". FiiO has said that they are investing to lessen the rate BY EVEN MORE so that problems will really be small.
   
  Yes, those with problems should seek warranty with their dealer (IF AUTHORIZED DEALER) or with FiiO themselves. But the E17 does not have any huge problems. IT has some software mishaps every now and then but those aren't huge. Mine has no solder problems.


----------



## beaver316

Still no breakthough with my problem. I mentioned before how i got crackling and static noise when using the Fiio E17 with youtube or any other website, but none when using foobar2000 or any other audio/video player software.
   
  I got around to installing all Windows updates, so im on Wind7 SP1 now with all updates installed. Still experience the problem. As far as i can tell, i have all the latest drivers installed on my pc (provided by Sony). I really am stumped. I tried it on my brother's PC running windows 7 too and it works fine.
   
  I think i might have to purchase an external powered usb hub, maybe the problem is my usb port.


----------



## Mama70

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> There have been users reporting that using a powered USB hub fixes this.
> 
> Device Manager? I think you are looking at total as 500mA is a very common max power per port number for USB.


 

 Just open Device Manager, Universal Serial Bus controllers and select one by one every Generic USB Hub. Open Properties and Power-sheet, there's power usage for every USB device attached to that hub. Fiio shows up as Composite USB Device, don't know why. For instance, my Trackball seems to take 98mA.
   
  Can anyone with Fiio E7 report how much that takes hub power?


----------



## wilky61

Okay, I have to say --
   
  I used this little device very happily for about a month before selling it yesterday and deciding to upgrade (into a whole 'nother realm of expensive that I didn't even realize -- hah). So in the meantime while I am waiting for the new components to arrive, I am just playing music without an external DAC through my Logitech Z2300 desktop speakers (which have an amp/headphone jack).
   
  And all I can say is UGGGGGGH. I miss the E17 already. Like seconds into the first song I played. This album (to which I just listened two nights ago) just sounds... wrong. Sounds fake. Sounds... more tinny. Less warm. Less musical. The vocals sound... more veiled or something. Just, everything sounds off...
  
  I have even more respect for the E17 now that I have sold it and realized how expensive the next step up really is.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Okay, I have to say --
> 
> I used this little device very happily for about a month before selling it yesterday and deciding to upgrade (into a whole 'nother realm of expensive that I didn't even realize -- hah). So in the meantime while I am waiting for the new components to arrive, I am just playing music without an external DAC through my Logitech Z2300 desktop speakers (which have an amp/headphone jack).
> 
> ...


 
  Most members don't sell and can't part because of their love for their devices. But you did a good descision. The E17 is kinda rare right now and can fetch a good price. Heck if you ordered 5 or something from MP4Nation and got them. Selling them right now can yield you a decent profit.
   
  I don't use E17 with my Z623's but I might try it sometime.


----------



## wilky61

Yeah, I had noticed that its price at Amazon shot up to $200+ weeks after I bought mine for $140, so I decided to put mine up for sale just to see if anyone would bite... Mine sold for $180+shipping on Amazon Marketplace yesterday, so I turned a $30 profit on the device after subtracting Amazon's commission.
   
  Good thing, too, 'cause I ended up buying a $250 M-Stage and a $300 HRT Music Streamer II+. Damn!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Most members don't sell and can't part because of their love for their devices. But you did a good descision. The E17 is kinda rare right now and can fetch a good price. Heck if you ordered 5 or something from MP4Nation and got them. Selling them right now can yield you a decent profit.
> 
> I don't use E17 with my Z623's but I might try it sometime.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> Yeah, I had noticed that its price at Amazon shot up to $200+ weeks after I bought mine for $140, so I decided to put mine up for sale just to see if anyone would bite... Mine sold for $180+shipping on Amazon Marketplace yesterday, so I turned a $30 profit on the device after subtracting Amazon's commission.
> 
> Good thing, too, 'cause I ended up buying a $250 M-Stage and a $300 HRT Music Streamer II+. Damn!!


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"


----------



## beaver316

Posted this in Head-Fi station pic thread so i thought i'd post it here too, it's my E17 paired with the IE80s.


----------



## PANGES

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Agreed. I would actually buy from Amazon too (when the prices drops.) I purchased an E7 from Amazon and one the headphone jack crapped out on me too, and they gave me a full refund.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





panges said:


> Agreed. I would actually buy from Amazon too (when the prices drops.) I purchased an E7 from Amazon and one the headphone jack crapped out on me too, and they gave me a full refund.


 
  Amazon is not an authorized dealer but if you buy from Micca on Amazon that gets you 3 layers of protection. Amazon handles returns very well and does help with problems. If that fails Micca under FiiO's lisence has to provide support and then you have FiiO.


----------



## gordec

Placed a preorder on head-direct.com for $140. I'm very happy with the E11 right now with my Galaxy Note phone using the 3.5 mm headphone jack. I'm amazed with the quality improvement, but the potentials of the build-in DAC just makes me yearning for more. I really hope the USB hosting/DAC development for ICS galaxy phones come through, so I can use the DAC of the E17 with my Galaxy Note.


----------



## hyogen

what do you know, after hearing people selling their E17 on amazon for huge profit (I envy the guy who sold his for like $275?? with the full velcro back mod--haha)....I decided to list mine since my main DAPs don't need an amp.  sold on amazon yesterday for $190..about $170 after fees and shipping I think..  not bad   Sold my PSP yesterday also--might upgrade to the vita.  or buy an even cheaper psp.
   
  so what IS the next step up from an E17?  
   
  Also, I"m guessing the ibasso D-zero isn't as powerful as the E17.  That can be had right now for about $100 on the for sale..  fyi.  
   
  Also, I'm curious what is a desktop equivalent of an E17?  power-wise.  
   
  Little Dot MK1?  MK2?  My curiosity for a real tube amp is starting to get the best of me


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> what do you know, after hearing people selling their E17 on amazon for huge profit (I envy the guy who sold his for like $275?? with the full velcro back mod--haha)....I decided to list mine since my main DAPs don't need an amp.  sold on amazon yesterday for $190..about $170 after fees and shipping I think..  not bad   Sold my PSP yesterday also--might upgrade to the vita.  or buy an even cheaper psp.
> 
> so what IS the next step up from an E17?
> 
> ...


 
  I'm thinking of selling mine also for a desktop unit as I'm not using it portably anymore.


----------



## hyogen

ah i see.  what are you looking at?  I should have gotten the little dot mk3 when i had the chance.  
   
  it's kinda weird when I use my E17 as a dac on my computer.  when I watch youtube videos at 720p it says it's 24bit on the E17........  but when I listen to 320kbps songs via foobar2000 and WASAPI, it goes down to 16bit....


----------



## gordec

Just out of curiosity, has anyone compared the Ibasso D-zero with E17? A quick search seems to be lacking any comparison. I am mainly interested in the amp aspect of these two.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gordec said:


> Just out of curiosity, has anyone compared the Ibasso D-zero with E17? A quick search seems to be lacking any comparison. I am mainly interested in the amp aspect of these two.


 
  Yes, it was made to combat the E7, not the E17. There are many reviews on the E17 being better.


----------



## wilky61

Hah! I saw yours listed on Amazon Marketplace when I sold mine (I had originally listed mine at like $185-186, underneath your price) and then dropped my price to $180, at which point it sold fairly promptly.
   
   
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> what do you know, after hearing people selling their E17 on amazon for huge profit (I envy the guy who sold his for like $275?? with the full velcro back mod--haha)....I decided to list mine since my main DAPs don't need an amp.  sold on amazon yesterday for $190..about $170 after fees and shipping I think..  not bad   Sold my PSP yesterday also--might upgrade to the vita.  or buy an even cheaper psp.
> 
> so what IS the next step up from an E17?
> 
> ...


----------



## hyogen

lol.  i still can't believe that guy who cut out velcro and put it on the back of his E17 sold it for like $250 -_-
   
  mine included the toslink cables and adapters and the fiio tshirt....hahaha.  such a sell-out...i know -_-


----------



## wilky61

Ditto. Got mine from MiccaStore as well. Had no use for the toslink/t-shirt/etc. any longer, so I included them, too. Have you shipped your E17 yet? It cost me about $7.50 to ship mine (unit/contents in the original box, wrapped inside the t-shirt, placed in a plain manilla envelope) via USPS Parcel Post (I think it was). I threw away those black rubber bands that came with the unit, though, because I failed to realize that they had any potential purpose/use. I hope my buyer doesn't miss them. 
   
  In response to your upgrade question, after taking much advice from users here, I decided to upgrade to the Matrix M-Stage (with LM4562 opamp) and the HRT Music Streamer II+ (cost me about $550 combined) to match my AKG Q701 headphones... guess I could've saved $150 if I had not opted for the "plus" version of the HRT MS2, though.
   
  And of course, there are always myriad other upgrade options. This is just my experience.
   
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> mine included the toslink cables and adapters and the fiio tshirt....hahaha.  such a sell-out...i know -_-


----------



## IKE60

I think it's been covered much earlier in this thread or perhaps in another thread, but I though I'd post it anyhow.
   
  Below is the kludge I've worked up to get digital audio out of my iPad and into my E17.  Luckily, I'm not in the habit of trying to lug this around with me, but it's nice to know I can if I want to.
   

   
  1. iPad 1 WiFi 64GB (from Apple)
  2. iPad Camera Connection Kit (from Apple)
  3. GearHead UH2100 4-port USB 2.0 Hub (from Fry's Electronics) [Any hub should work]
  4. Targus APB25US Battery Backup (also from Fry's) [Cheapest one I could find]
  5. FiiO E17 DAC/Amp (from B&H Photo)
  6. Hosa MHE-100.5 1/8" right angle to 1/4" adapter (from Best Buy) [Optional, reduces stress on E17 output jack]
  7. Sennheiser HD598 (from Amazon) [Substitute your own cans]
  8. 2x USB A to 1x Mini B Cable (from my own supplies, like this one on Newegg)
   
How To
  1) Turn USB charging off on E17
  2) Connect items 2 through 8
      (Ensure the power USB connector is in the battery backup and the data USB connector is in the hub)
  3) Turn on E17
  4) Push button on Targus battery backup
  5) Connect items 1 and 2 (Battery has to be feeding E17 before connecting the iPad)
   
What's Happening
  The battery backup supplies the E17 with the 5 V, 150 mA it uses (even with USB charging off).
  I really thought this would work without the hub, but alas, it does not.  I don't know _exactly _what the hub is doing in this setup (e.g. ensuring the battery doesn't try to charge the iPad or some other sort of electrical/signal isolation) - regardless, it's required.
  This specific battery backup is rated at 3.7 V, 2000 mAh, so by my calculations, it will keep the E17 going to 9+ hours in this setup (make sure to turn USB charging off).
   
  -IKE


----------



## ClieOS

Thanks for posting your setup, quite helpful for those iPad user I think.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> I think it's been covered much earlier in this thread or perhaps in another thread, but I though I'd post it anyhow.
> 
> Below is the kludge I've worked up to get digital audio out of my iPad and into my E17.  Luckily, I'm not in the habit of trying to lug this around with me, but it's nice to know I can if I want to.
> 
> ...


 
   
  wooow.  was it worth it?  how much was the stuff you needed total?  can you tell a difference?


----------



## IKE60

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> wooow.  was it worth it?  how much was the stuff you needed total?  can you tell a difference?



  
 Yes.  iPad CCK $30, USB Hub $8, Battery $40, Cable ~$5.  So, $50-80, depending on what you already have.  I would have bought the camera connection kit anyway.  This was mostly a "can I do it?" project for me.  I usually just take my Shure SE215 in-ear phones around with my iPad in my backpack.
  
Can I tell a difference?
*Short answer:* Yes.
*Medium answer:* I'm new to the audiophile scene.  I have little to no experience and I'm new to the terminology.  I notice the difference in the extreme highs (Dream Theater's "6:00" - cymbals are crisper/tighter) and lows (Gorillaz' "Dare" - Opening bass is really deep) and sometimes in the timbre of string instruments (namely when Yo-yo Ma plays Bach's 1st cello suite, it's just stringier and fuller).
*Long answer:* Maybe I'll make my first attempt at a review/comparison between digital out and LO later.  I had some difficulties comparing because the LO is quieter than digital from the iPad, and I don't want to control the volume through the iPad (digital out allows this, LO= vol disabled on iPad).  I had to set the E17 5 steps higher on AUX input to get equivalent loudness.


----------



## hyogen

thank you   bravo


----------



## Sysagent

Hi,
   
  Primarily use my FiiO E17 to drive the HiFiMan EF2A at work (via the L7 Line out add on) where I use a set of Beyerdynamic DT1350's.

 Question is...
   
  Has anyone used the FiiO E17 as a "serious" external DAC device?
   
  Reason why I ask, is that I was thinking of connecting the SPDIF output of my Squeezebox II into it and then using it to drive my current Hi-Fi set-up (Leema Pulse amplifier, Celestion SL6S speakers on Custom Design speaker stands) and I was wondering if anybody had done any comparison tests against Hi-Fi DACs like the ones from Rega, Cambridge Audio,etc

 Be interested to know if anyone has done any comparison listening tests and how the E17 comes out, if it is poor against "puka" DACs then I guess I will have to go down the HiFi DAC route and purchase one, but if it holds it's head up there with them then I need not bother.
   
  Many thanks
   
  Sys


----------



## qiko

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We already change the mini USB to different type of SMD mini usb which have 2 pins soldered on the PCB. about the headphone socket, We already change to some better kinds of socket, but it can not make sure all will be OK because we sold out so many E7/E17.


 
   
  Is there a way for me to check if my model is built with the new sockets?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## xeroian

Ike,
   
  thank you very much for sharing this. I had also concluded much earlier in this thread that the USB hub was required. Yesterday I went out to buy a collection of usb plugs, mini-plugs and cable shrink wrap to create a very similar bespoke version. I will take them back and just order a Y-cable now.
   
  It occurs to me that for use in a hotel I don't need the external battery pack. I can just plug the Y-cable in to my iPad charger.  Result !!!
   
  Only possible complication is that the USB cable does need to be good quality. I had always rubbished the idea that USB cables can sound different. Then last week I mistakenly used a cheapo USB between DAC and iPAD. I couldn't work out why the sound from the E17 had such a ragged top end, then I realised what I had done.
   
  Ian


----------



## bjgrenke

I'm currently using the E17 with my Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250ohms, however I can hardly notice a difference in SQ than I did without the amp, especially on my phone. Kind of dissapointed. I know that there's not much more I can do with my phone, but will I benefit from getting an E9 to dock the E17 for desktop use?


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bjgrenke said:


> I'm currently using the E17 with my Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250ohms, however I can hardly notice a difference in SQ than I did without the amp, especially on my phone. Kind of dissapointed. I know that there's not much more I can do with my phone, but will I benefit from getting an E9 to dock the E17 for desktop use?


 
   
  correct me if I'm wrong, but an amp doesn't really improve sound quality nor is it supposed to.  It's supposed to give you more power to drive your headphones--you might get some changes in the balance of the headphones, but I don't think anyone is gonna hear any actual improvement in quality)...that is up to your source, interconnects, and DAC.      If you set up your computer to use the E17 as a DAC with the highest sound settings, I'm guessing you're gonna see the most quality improvement there. 
   
  E9 will add even more power...but again won't make your sound quality better.  I use 12dB gain and it makes me enjoy my music more b/c of the more full and engaging/alive sound it gives to my music.  As long as there is no distortion or audible added noise, then I think that's optimal


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> correct me if I'm wrong, but an amp doesn't really improve sound quality nor is it supposed to.  It's supposed to give you more power to drive your headphones--you might get some changes in the balance of the headphones, but I don't think anyone is gonna hear any actual improvement in quality)...that is up to your source, interconnects, and DAC.      If you set up your computer to use the E17 as a DAC with the highest sound settings, I'm guessing you're gonna see the most quality improvement there.
> 
> E9 will add even more power...but again won't make your sound quality better.  I use 12dB gain and it makes me enjoy my music more b/c of the more full and engaging/alive sound it gives to my music.  As long as there is no distortion or audible added noise, then I think that's optimal


 
   
  I think it depend what you want from an amp, 
   
  1, Usually, an amp is to help you get the 100% sound quality from your setup, or you can think, if you buy a very good headphone, it does not means you will get 100% sound quality from it unless it is 100% drove. 
   
  2, Another situation is, some amp can change the sound , it is not designed to " improve " the sound quality , for example, a tube amp will make the sound become warm and slowly .
   
  Just my opinion.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I agree.  it helps you get the full potential of your setup.  but doesn't necessarily mean improve sound QUALITY.
   
  thanks


----------



## Tilpo

hyogen said:


> correct me if I'm wrong, but an amp doesn't really improve sound quality nor is it supposed to.  It's supposed to give you more power to drive your headphones--you might get some changes in the balance of the headphones, but I don't think anyone is gonna hear any actual improvement in quality)...that is up to your source,* interconnects, and DAC*.      If you set up your computer to use the E17 as a DAC with the highest sound settings, I'm guessing you're gonna see the most quality improvement there.
> 
> E9 will add even more power...but again won't make your sound quality better.  I use 12dB gain and it makes me enjoy my music more b/c of the more full and engaging/alive sound it gives to my music.  As long as there is no distortion or audible added noise, then I think that's optimal



Interconnects and DAC are going to have a smaller impact on sound quality than an amp.
Interconnects are not going to do much, because I don't see why they would. (cables tend to have a rather flat frequency response in consumer applications).
DAC's are so technologically advanced that most decent ones are essentially completely linear to the ear. I.e. the distortion/noise/frequency response are linear enough not to cause audible changes in sound. 

Amps can cause a difference, as it tends to be more difficult to create a high specced amp than it is to get a DAC. But, if the engineer wants to go the SS route, and aims for transparency, then it shouldn't be at all difficult to create something that doesn't audibly affect the sound apart from applying gain. 

If by 'source' you mean the recording it self and any DSP's applied to it, then yes, you are correct.


----------



## hyogen

So what is your opinion about headphones. Lately i feel like most headphones can be equalized to sound good. I started off my headfi journey thinking I was only gonna get the best unadulterated sound with very neutral phones.


----------



## schuh

Just hooked my iPad (version1) to the USB camera kit with a powered hub and it works great. Thanks for helping me get a digital out from my iPad. I thought it was hopeless.


----------



## Nando1970

any chance a future firmware update could enable support for 88.2kHz via USB?
  Or maybe it's been already fixed? (sorry I can't really go through this thread's 235 pages)
   
  this is the deal-breaker for me, I would really love to get the E17...


----------



## bowei006

Why such a sampling rate? Ill be that guy and say that most cant tell the difference from sampling to 96KHz as the Samping rate following Nyquists theory is already twice Nyquists theory.


----------



## ClieOS

nando1970 said:


> any chance a future firmware update could enable support for 88.2kHz via USB?
> Or maybe it's been already fixed? (sorry I can't really go through this thread's 235 pages)
> 
> this is the deal-breaker for me, I would really love to get the E17...




It is impossible to decode 88.2Hz as the USB receiver doesn't support it. However, there is a easy fix. You can try to use software player like FooBar2000 that supports upsampling so all your 88.2Hz file will be upsample to 96kHz on the output. It won't improve the SQ though.


----------



## xeroian

As I said in an earlier post I love this solution. However after experimenting I found that if you don't own a Y cable it isn't necessary to buy or create one. I just connect the portable power source into one port on the USB hub and the FiiO cable in to another.
   
  Ian
   
  Quote: 





ike60 said:


> I think it's been covered much earlier in this thread or perhaps in another thread, but I though I'd post it anyhow.
> 
> Below is the kludge I've worked up to get digital audio out of my iPad and into my E17.  Luckily, I'm not in the habit of trying to lug this around with me, but it's nice to know I can if I want to.
> 
> ...


----------



## IKE60

I don't have a USB male-to-male cable, so the one I used was the best _portable_ solution for me. Anyone who doesn't need portability can just plug the iPad and E17 into a wall-powered hub.


----------



## schuh

That's what I did. With shared iTunes libraries, I can now get a digital out of all my lossless music anywhere in the house. Once again, thanks for suggesting this solution. 

BTW anyone else driving their AKGs with the E17? Am I crazy to think that this little amp drives the K702 very nicely?


----------



## bowei006

I have Q701s. Yes it does drive it nicely. Oldies and some classic that doesnt go up to the 96dB ceiling(of 16bit dynamic range) and are a lot lower have some trouble getting to rock hard volume(dont do that) but otherwise it has enough power for the Q701s


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> Only possible complication is that the USB cable does need to be good quality. I had always rubbished the idea that USB cables can sound different. Then last week I mistakenly used a cheapo USB between DAC and iPAD. I couldn't work out why the sound from *the E17 had such a ragged top end*, then I realised what I had done.
> 
> Ian


 
  Hi Ian,
   
  First let me reiterate my situation.  I've been using the E17 with my iPad via CCK and USB hub to play 96khz-24bit FLAC files using FLAC Player.  Up until the iOS was updated to 5.1, this set up worked perfectly.  After the iOS update to 5.1 I get what sounds like distortion (maybe it is this "ragged top end" you speak of) on any files that are above 48khz. They can be FLAC files on FLAC Player or AIFF files on the Apple music player - it doesn't matter.  I've worked with Dan Leehr (FLAC Player developer) to see if he could do anything to no avail.  I'm desparately seeking a solution!!  My "portable" Hi-Res DAP is rendered useless because of this.
   
  So, a few questions to you...  First, are you listening to files that are higher than 48khz when you hear this "ragged top end"? Second, are you using a 2x USB A to 1x Mini B Cable like what Ike shows in his diagram?  If you are just using a powered USB Hub, what brand and model is it? What brand and model USB cables are you using?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## schuh

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I have Q701s. Yes it does drive it nicely. Oldies and some classic that doesnt go up to the 96dB ceiling(of 16bit dynamic range) and are a lot lower have some trouble getting to rock hard volume(dont do that) but otherwise it has enough power for the Q701s


 
  Agreed.  Some older recordings don't have enough volume, at least with the gain at +6.  That's as high as I'll take the gain.  To me the +12 setting sounds too grainy.  Most of my recordings sound great though, plenty loud and clear enough.  The E17 is also pretty quiet at +6, no hiss.


----------



## OPTiK

Anyone us this amp/dac with JH16s? Any hiss? Overall improvement?


----------



## Tilpo

schuh said:


> Agreed.  Some older recordings don't have enough volume, at least with the gain at +6.  That's as high as I'll take the gain.  To me the +12 setting sounds too grainy.  Most of my recordings sound great though, plenty loud and clear enough.  The E17 is also pretty quiet at +6, no hiss.



That is why I use replaygain. Approximately the same volume on all albums, and hence no need to change volume at each new album.


----------



## bowei006

@rikkun
Would replaygain be software or hardware based? For you that is? The E17 has no such hardware for that so its software which adds my question of how efficent and good the "replygain" is. Of course this differs from which one you use.... Which one do you use and is the one you use for foobar?
Any audible loss of quality or addition of artifacts or distortion?


----------



## schuh

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> That is why I use replaygain. Approximately the same volume on all albums, and hence no need to change volume at each new album.


 
  I'm interested in this, but I almost always use my iPad (either the Remote app or shared library) and I've gotten used to just changing the volume from the iPad.  I've tried gain levelers in the past and found that they degrade the music.


----------



## schuh

Quote: 





optik said:


> Anyone us this amp/dac with JH16s? Any hiss? Overall improvement?


 
  I use it with my Shure SE-215s and find no hiss at all.  I never have to go beyond the 0 gain setting.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> @rikkun
> Would replaygain be software or hardware based? For you that is? The E17 has no such hardware for that so its software which adds my question of how efficent and good the "replygain" is. Of course this differs from which one you use.... Which one do you use and is the one you use for foobar?
> Any audible loss of quality or addition of artifacts or distortion?



It's software based. 

A lot of media players support it, under which foobar2000, but also quite a few android music apps. I don't know about iPod Touch and iPhone, although I do know that my iPod classic does not support it, so most likely the standard music apps won't either. 

It doesn't degrade the sound quality, as all it does is adjust volume in the digital domain. A bit of knowledge of sampling theory will tell you that this doesn't really affect sound quality in any reasonable way.


----------



## Darkblade48

Just as an additional note, ReplayGain does not permanently alter your music file in any way; it just adds some metatag data that can be read by software (i.e. Foobar, Winamp, etc) and some music players (not Apple devices, see below) so that alterations in the volume can be made before playback.
   
  I also use ReplayGain, and it is quite convenient, as the music is all normalized to one volume (I believe it is 89 dB).

 Sound Check is a proprietary Apple technology similar in function to ReplayGain. It is available in iTunes and on the iPod.


----------



## Tilpo

darkblade48 said:


> Just as an additional note, ReplayGain does not permanently alter your music file in any way; it just adds some metatag data that can be read by software (i.e. Foobar, Winamp, etc) and some music players (not Apple devices, see below) so that alterations in the volume can be made before playback.
> 
> I also use ReplayGain, and it is quite convenient, as the music is all normalized to one volume (I believe it is 89 dB).
> 
> ...



Except Sound Check is track based only. The nice thing about ReplayGain is that you can normalize the volume between different _albums_ or different tracks, whatever you choose. I personally only listen to albums, so for me this is more convenient that the Sound Check function of iDevices.


----------



## bowei006

Thanks Rikkun.

Ill look into it on foobar.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Thanks Rikkun.
> Ill look into it on foobar.



I believe the ReplayGain scanner comes with the standard installation of foobar. 
Just go to a random playlist. Right click the tracks you want to scan -> ReplayGain, and then whataver option you want to choose. 

To enable ReplayGain go to Preferences -> Playback.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





> *Rikkun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I believe the ReplayGain scanner comes with the standard installation of foobar.
> ...


 
  I'm sure I've seen it before so thanks  This will be great.
   
  Anyway. I'm pausing my NFB 12.1 buy for right now as I wait for more stuff.
  I'll be getting an O2 for the moment and do this
   
  Foobar WASAPI out-->SPDIF output>>>Toslink optical cable-->E17-->L7-->O2-->headphones.
   
  And then I'll sell both and get the NFB 12.1


----------



## schuh

I'm curious about how that E17/O2 combo works out for you.  I'm contemplating that for my desk to drive my K702s.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Regarding hiss: I hear a constant low-level hiss in my Shure 535s via the E17, and changing the gain setting doesn't change that (since it affects the relative level of the actual music playing) It is so low however that once the music starts it's not an issue (most of my album's background hiss tends to be louder already)
   
  Regarding Sound Check/ Replay Gain: Just to clarify: Sound Check is actually 2 things: 1) the tag that Apple's iDevices use to adjust volume and 2) the algorithm in iTunes that generates and writes these volume tags (getting increasingly worse in an effort to speed things up) As a consequence, there are actually 3rd party apps that use the Replay Gain algorithm instead to write the aforementioned tags, even taking into consideration per-album settings; so it can actually be usable.
   
  I personally would be interested in light of creating some playlists, but the most commonly used iVolume is so hilariously over-priced for being a 1-trick pony (that on top of that is based largely on free open-source software that -other- people wrote) that I'm sticking with adjusting the volume manually (even though that meant getting a DAC with remote controlled volume for convenience, among other benefits) If anybody has alternative suggestions on OS X, I'd love to hear about them.


----------



## wahu

Quote: 





thegrumpyoldman said:


> Regarding hiss: I hear a constant low-level hiss in my Shure 535s via the E17, and changing the gain setting doesn't change that


 
  Thats strange because I have the same setup and have no hiss. One or two songs have a little bit in the background but the rest of my collection doesn't have it. I've found my e17 makes some noise depending on where i place it. I had it attached to the back of my notebook with velcro but there was some occasional interference.


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Except Sound Check is track based only. The nice thing about ReplayGain is that you can normalize the volume between different _albums_ or different tracks, whatever you choose. I personally only listen to albums, so for me this is more convenient that the Sound Check function of iDevices.


 
   
  Oooh, I did not know this. Learned something new today.


----------



## hyogen

If you use 0db gain on the E17.......what's the point? Just wondering.. I love the sound of 12db so much more and there is no distortion at all.... So not sure why people would use 0dB gain. Are they even utilizing the E17 at all? I can't hear much of a difference at all with 0dB... 6, and especially 12 sounds wonderfully full and alive


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> If you use 0db gain on the E17.......what's the point? Just wondering.. I love the sound of 12db so much more and there is no distortion at all.... So not sure why people would use 0dB gain. Are they even utilizing the E17 at all? I can't hear much of a difference at all with 0dB... 6, and especially 12 sounds wonderfully full and alive


 
  It's been known with the E17 on higher gains than what your headphones or earhones need will cause more static, a clicking sound that will disappear but is still annoying, and more "noise" and possibly if you set it wrong with volume memory on and had a very easy to drive IEM on 12dB gain and 40 volume that it could risk blowing your ears. Or even worse than blowing your ears out, destroying the driver. I'm kidding about the driver being more important than your ear but there is this point. Clieo's tests that he did claim 12dB to be more reponsive and have more bass(people like this, especially most that own this device due to it's low price and thus people that don't need super neutral accuracy but a fun "FiiO" sound) but that alone isn't enough for some that will want to play it safe and not want any annoying artifacts in their music or risk destroying a diaphram somewhere.
   
  I have not done or remember seeing any "objective" tests yet for the 6dB and 12dB more lively and bassy claim so I will just leave it as a "claim". It is known that a higher volume and a more bassy sound(if the bassy part of the claim was true) will subjectively influence a user's descision on what sounds good. I will even fall to this initially as extended use and also experience on what to hear for and what not is also needed.


----------



## hyogen

Since I have volume near 100% on my dap, I usually only have the e17 on 20 volume for my iems and maybe 37 for dt880

I don't hear any artifacts or clipping.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> Since I have volume near 100% on my dap, I usually only have the e17 on 20 volume for my iems and maybe 37 for dt880
> I don't hear any artifacts or clipping.


 
  It happens to some. I asked about it before.
   
  Bascically it happens more "frequently" with headphones or earphones that don't require the power of that gain level. If I tried a PL11 or another super easy to drive earphone on 12dB gain I would get a click click click click noise filled with "noise". It would sometimes auto disappear and sometimes it requires you to raise the volume all the way up or to a certain point. At which the noise will then disapear and then you can lower it back down. This has not happened to me after I started using "correct" gain settings at which the headphones are mostly suited for. It has happened once or twice but the frequency was a huge substantial drop. And it happens randomly and it may not be audible while music is playing so some may never notice it.
   
  What DAP are you sticking with now Hyogen?


----------



## hyogen

hehe, probably the Galaxy S b/c I have a huge extra extended battery and it's super convenient with wifi/download songs right onto it, etc...  I would totally go back to J3 (for the battery life), but it's a little hard to control in the car when I want to listen to a specific song.  I like my D3 just fine, but one of my DAPs have to go...and the Galaxy isn't selling on the classifieds so far..  
   
  I'm probably gonna look for another PSP for super cheap since I have a big memory card for it and since I got my Vita for so cheap.  Just got the dock for it today which has line out sound ($5!!)  Everything Vita is getting cheap---games at walmart for $20 right now.  Bought a couple games plus dock today for $50 total--2 really good games like Lumines and Katamari.  There's another Vita for sale on craigslist right now in portland for $150.......including memory card and game...haha.  People are having a hard time selling their $300/$250 vitas with accessories for even $200 on CL right now..........


----------



## bowei006

The Vita was a massive failure here in the U.S.
   
  Remember that line out doesn't mean perfect. Does the line out bypass just the amp or DAC? Are you use it bypasses the amp?
   
  Remember that the qualty of the DAC and the chips surrounding it from how it extracts the audio and types of materials used and teh sofware and many circuitry will affect sound quality and Wolfson does not just automatically equal awesome.


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


wahu said:


> Thats strange because I have the same setup and have no hiss. One or two songs have a little bit in the background but the rest of my collection doesn't have it. I've found my e17 makes some noise depending on where i place it. I had it attached to the back of my notebook with velcro but there was some occasional interference.


 
  Maybe it's because I use it as a portable rig with my iPod Classic via LOD connector... I guess I'll try it via USB to see if it makes a difference (And again, it is very low: in a crowded area, even with the isolation that the 535s provide, I probably wouldn't hear it)


----------



## bjgrenke

Is it bad using the +10 bass boost on this? I previously had it on +4 T and +4 B, but I tried +10 Bass and instant eargasm


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bjgrenke said:


> Is it bad using the +10 bass boost on this? I previously had it on +4 T and +4 B, but I tried +10 Bass and instant eargasm


 
  It really is dependant on what you like. Most "audiophile's" think +10dB bass is too much but really it's up to what you subjectivaley prefer. And remember not to ruin your drivers as too much bass at high volumes with bad tracks for extended periods or an instant period at the wrong moment could damage them.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The Vita was a massive failure here in the U.S.
> 
> Remember that line out doesn't mean perfect. Does the line out bypass just the amp or DAC? Are you use it bypasses the amp?
> 
> Remember that the qualty of the DAC and the chips surrounding it from how it extracts the audio and types of materials used and teh sofware and many circuitry will affect sound quality and Wolfson does not just automatically equal awesome.


 
   
  it's been an even bigger failure in japan (world's biggest handheld market)....where the PSP is still outselling the Vita 2:1.....and the 3DS is outselling both by more than that....   Lot of people blame Monster Hunter, but.......it could just be that the handheld gaming market has permanently changed towards Angry Birds/Plants vs. Zombies-like games on the go. 
   
  The Vita is one amazing piece of hardware, though...


----------



## schuh

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> If you use 0db gain on the E17.......what's the point? Just wondering.. I love the sound of 12db so much more and there is no distortion at all.... So not sure why people would use 0dB gain. Are they even utilizing the E17 at all? I can't hear much of a difference at all with 0dB... 6, and especially 12 sounds wonderfully full and alive


 
  I've had my E17 for about 2 wks.  I love it at the desk with my K702s; +6 on the gain and +2 on the bass sounds very nice.  I am thinking about a desktop amp, perhaps the O2 or the M-Stage.  I haven't tried my SE215s w/o the Fiio hooked up to my iPod Classic (via LOD).  I just got the Shures.   Sounds like a bit of experimenting with the gain is in order.  I can say that the few moments I tried the E17 at +12 gain (w/the AKGs) I did not care as much for the sound as with the lower gain settings.  Maybe I was hasty to judge.


----------



## airomjosh

Hi clieos, I am contemplating on upgrading my portable amp which is Lear-FSM01. Is Alpen considered an upgrade?


----------



## pizza

Quote: 





airomjosh said:


> Hi clieos, I am contemplating on upgrading my portable amp which is Lear-FSM01. Is Alpen considered an upgrade?


 

 +1


----------



## Thommohawk

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> it's been an even bigger failure in japan (world's biggest handheld market)....where the PSP is still outselling the Vita 2:1.....and the 3DS is outselling both by more than that....   Lot of people blame Monster Hunter, but.......it could just be that the handheld gaming market has permanently changed towards Angry Birds/Plants vs. Zombies-like games on the go.
> 
> The Vita is one amazing piece of hardware, though...


 
   
  Agreed. But let's not forget the fact that the 3DS had similar issues for the first 3 - 6 months on the market that Vita is having. I don't think the Vita will be a runaway success, but I think it'll end up a success rather than a failure for Sony *IF* it gets supported with high quality games throughout it's life. So far it has. It will continue. And sales will pick up. 
   
  I do agree though that nowadays with the handheld market there's limited call for it now that smart phones are essentially portable mini consoles and people are happy just to download Angry Birds for peanuts and play that on journeys out.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





thommohawk said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Vita has been out for a year in Japan, though..  we'll see if anything at E3 will revive the outlook for both consumers and developers.  Perhaps it'll be a slow burning success like the PSP was, but the even the PSP didn't struggle like this out of the gate.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Sony is announcing 20 new things at E3.. They could be games or anything. 
  Also some great games are still coming to vita such as soul sacrifice. ---->  http://au.ign.com/articles/2012/05/12/25-minutes-of-soul-sacrifice
  Also, playstation all stars battle royale, little big planet, resistance, sly cooper, an exclusive bioshock game, final fantasy x hd, mgs collection....... 
  Then ps1 games. 
   
  Gonna be good just have to give it a bit of time. 
   
  3ds was slow at the start but picked up later. ps3 was very slow at the start (due to high price tag) but has the best games out of all of the consoles at the moment.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





noodleboy91 said:


> Sony is announcing 20 new things at E3.. They could be games or anything.
> Also some great games are still coming to vita such as soul sacrifice. ---->  http://au.ign.com/articles/2012/05/12/25-minutes-of-soul-sacrifice
> Also, playstation all stars battle royale, little big planet, resistance, sly cooper, an exclusive bioshock game, final fantasy x hd, mgs collection.......
> Then ps1 games.
> ...


 
  Unless they release a PMP that has the features below.. *yawn*
   

 Very functional (this will cover everything meaning it has to work well)
 Great universal UI
 Doesn't need web browsing or apps unless they can incorporate it well and knowing Sony....don't do it.
 Support for many popular audio formats; FLAC, AAC, MP3, etc etc. (lame mp3, ogg vorbis etc etc)
 Sturdy
 Good battery
 A decent internal size of storage and removable storage through SDHC and not a stupid sony proprietary format
 Line Out
 Cirrus Logic or Wolfson DAC
 Decent headphone amp
 Clean circuitry from everything. Even if you have a good Wolfson, have crappy circuitry and inefficiency and it's a crap device.
 Price that is competetive to an iPod's
 Sounds good


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Unless they release a PMP that has the features below.. *yawn*
> 
> 
> Very functional (this will cover everything meaning it has to work well)
> ...




I've been looking for such a device for ages. Eventually I couldn't bear waiting any longer until such a device was created. After that I decided to buy a phone with support for 64GB SD cards. 
Too bad the sound quality is pretty mediocre, and that Android doesn't support USB audio. Once it does support it properly, I won't hesitate to buy an E17.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Unless they release a PMP that has the features below.. *yawn*
> 
> 
> Very functional (this will cover everything meaning it has to work well)
> ...


 
  Fair enough.......
  Would this system play games? Or would it just be a walkman type device?


----------



## bowei006

Theres the telecast and its cousin its an oem for that is the same thing. Forgot the name but I didnt get it as there were mass reports of buggy UI and verycrappy build. 

FiiO was supposed to build one but stopped. You need a plethora of engineers for hardware and software and you have to absolutely have a good UI which will take too many of fiios resources I have heard and they dont have the engineers or I guess time to just releSe one product.

Give tht to me for $200 and ill buy it. And remember. Extra features will make it more buggy. I dont need a stupid half working UI with camera or crap features. Make it play music very well on a nice UI and all that I specified


And TAKE MY MONEY!


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Hey,
  I am wondering.. If I plug my fiio e17 into my macbook pro should it sound different then when I plug it into my desktop computer?
   
  Or am I just imagining things?


----------



## bowei006

Through USB or Optical? Its sure to be different if you use aux


Technicay if we were pefrfect audio robots... Yeah. Different circuitry, slightly different hard drives and how it carries music.

Also remember. Both systems have their own controls. For the Mac, audio midi setup is what you should use to chrck the dynamic range and sampling rate settings its on or change it. For windows its in your sound properties of the device.

Also remember software that is enabled could also change it. If you are using foobar on one and itunes on the other. They have different audio playback settings that may make it very ery smally different but delending on you and the settings it may not be audible. Also remember that windows sound properties sometimes has crap enabled like dolby so uncheck a that stuff. Dolby that you buy like the astro is goo. Ones that come with suck.


----------



## Tilpo

noodleboy91 said:


> Hey,
> I am wondering.. If I plug my fiio e17 into my macbook pro should it sound different then when I plug it into my desktop computer?
> 
> Or am I just imagining things?



If there is a difference it is most likely software related and not hardware related. Digital transmission over USB tends to be bit-perfect in all except extreme cases. Like Bowei said, different software and settings or different drivers may affect sound quality.
Unless you listen to the same music at the same volumes on the other hand, observed differences may very well be caused by psychological factors.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Through USB or Optical? Its sure to be different if you use aux
> Technicay if we were pefrfect audio robots... Yeah. Different circuitry, slightly different hard drives and how it carries music.
> Also remember. Both systems have their own controls. For the Mac, audio midi setup is what you should use to chrck the dynamic range and sampling rate settings its on or change it. For windows its in your sound properties of the device.
> Also remember software that is enabled could also change it. If you are using foobar on one and itunes on the other. They have different audio playback settings that may make it very ery smally different but delending on you and the settings it may not be audible. Also remember that windows sound properties sometimes has crap enabled like dolby so uncheck a that stuff. Dolby that you buy like the astro is goo. Ones that come with suck.


 
  Through USB... i don't know if I am hearing things but it sounds slightly more bassy and a bit more muddled when playing from the macbook through itunes.
   
  When using the desktop I am using media monkey.
   
  How should I set it up? Is there a set of steps? Sorry I am new to this I thought I just plug it in lol .


----------



## Darkblade48

As mentioned, the software that you are using to play back the music itself could be affecting the music in some way (i.e. perhaps you have the equalizer enabled, etc).
   
  I would check your settings first.
   
  How are you plugging in your E17?


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> If there is a difference it is most likely software related and not hardware related. Digital transmission over USB tends to be bit-perfect in all except extreme cases. Like Bowei said, different software and settings or different drivers may affect sound quality.
> Unless you listen to the same music at the same volumes on the other hand, observed differences may very well be caused by psychological factors.


 
  Oh okay then  Maybe I'm just tired then.


----------



## bowei006

Like I said check your settings. Look at sampling rate and dyanmic range. Having both at 24bit and 96KHz is standard but doesnt fix the problem.

Media monky is more audiophile accepted than itunes but both of this doesnt explain mudiness which makes me think that you had an EQ on the e17 when testing one and not on the other. Do a test where you plug it in right after so you dont use one day and another the other day.

But ifthat doesnt change and you are sure of muddiness thn like I said. Software. This could inude "enhancements" or anything . Hardware is also there but you cant tell a difference. Remember to try a different port on the Mac and even if or when the mac is plugged into a charger.

But software "enhancements" be it itunes with an eq you forgot you added or something in your mac or an rnhancement enabled on your pc that gives you illusion of cleaner.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Quote: 





darkblade48 said:


> As mentioned, the software that you are using to play back the music itself could be affecting the music in some way (i.e. perhaps you have the equalizer enabled, etc).
> 
> I would check your settings first.
> 
> How are you plugging in your E17?


 
  The equalisers are flat.
   
  I have it plugged in via USB to my macbook pro. 
   
  I clicked on audio midi setup and there are a few options that I have no idea what they do lol.


----------



## bowei006

In audio midi you will first have to select your E17 and then chrck the settings. There should be a channel balance and dynamic rnage and sample rate. Make it 96KHz at 24bit.

See if itunes has an eq on. Its in the songs properties menu or an all song wide itunes eq. And remember like I said . It could also be the opposite and that your song is "musdy" to you and that its widows that has a consumer enhancement on that makes you think its cleaner. Check windows as well and do consecutive tests.

If that fails use another media organizer and player for your ma or use itunes on your pc.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Okay I changed it to 96000.0Hz and 24bit. 
   
  Before it was on 44100.0Hz and 16bit.
   
  Wow I never knew that I just read a bit about it just now and apparantly listening to it with these sample rates it is 65536 times more precise then a cd?
   
 sorry I am new to this high quality audio stuff. It's all a bit exciting for me.


----------



## bowei006

Pleasedont enforce the placebo. 

The benefits of anything over 44.1KHz 16bit(unless its classical) theoretically can not be heard differently from a human if we base it off the sinplest calculations and theory. It is that many times "better" yes but as humans we cant hear it. The highest a human can ever hear is 22KHz and that is as a baby. The average person hears at 17KHz maximum. So following Nyquists theorem te sample rate has to be half and more than the maximum hearing so 44.1KHz was used. Supposedly we arent hearing anything past that but tests have confirmed thr we do get benefits. A sample rate of 96KHz is already way tok high to handle and decode which will add jitter to the audio but at 96KHz the audio will add sharpness to it and there is some "hardware" audio from the encoding process that will also influence how it sounds. 192KHz is even more taxing on a system due to the sheer number of times the audi is sampled per amount of time and thus adds more jitter to the audio but also sharpness. 

Its up to you which tradeoff you want. 96KHz /24bit or 192KHz/24 bit. 192KHz thus is not superior in hat sense. Due to the encoding of 192KHz it could add hardware noise that make a sweet sound some like. It can also be said that when 192KHz first started the people that used it were faniliar with oldies and noise due to vinyls an thus didnt mind the extra jitter of 192KHz(if they can hear and differentiate even) and thus prefere 192KHz to its extra sharpness and hardware added noise. This preference skyrocketed an led to the misconceptionthat 192 and a bigger number is superior.

16bit is a number that represents the dynamic range. 16 bit X 6 =96dB noise floor. 24bit isnt "better" so much as it allows for a higher noise floor of 144 dB(24 X 6) which js great for old recordings and classical music that has many instruments that want to go past 96dB. There are higher dynamic ranges but at the moment arent popular.



I hole you learned real sound science today. Head fi has changed due to more new members(yay real audio) but at the cost of values and real info. There is lots of noise these days and hard to pick info out from the sea. Always keep an open mind 


There is an upvote thumbs ul button near the "multi" button near where you press quote or reply. I deserve an upvote.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Hey,
  thanks for the information. So we cannot hear the differences as humans, even if it is actually better, I understand now. Most of this may just be a placebo effect.
   
   
  My music is in 44.1khz even if it is in flac format.. How would you even get it in 96khz?
   
  Or are there files that are in 96khz?
   
  Also, is it better to set my audio settings to play in 96khz/24bit when I don't have any songs that are even at that sample rate? Or is it just a waste?


----------



## wilky61

For me, it depended on what I was currently listening to.
   
  For some albums/styles of music. I craved more impact/oomph out of the notes, the drums, and the bass hits (so I'd adjust the gain upward and match the volume downward).
  For other things, I craved less impact/oomph...
   
  Quote: 





hyogen said:


> If you use 0db gain on the E17.......what's the point? Just wondering.. I love the sound of 12db so much more and there is no distortion at all.... So not sure why people would use 0dB gain. Are they even utilizing the E17 at all? I can't hear much of a difference at all with 0dB... 6, and especially 12 sounds wonderfully full and alive


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





wilky61 said:


> For me, it depended on what I was currently listening to.
> 
> For some albums/styles of music. I craved more impact/oomph out of the notes, the drums, and the bass hits (so I'd adjust the gain upward and match the volume downward).
> For other things, I craved less impact/oomph...
> ...


 
  ah okay.


----------



## wahu

Ahhh getting ready to watch game of thrones and my e17 died!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







   
  Edit. RESET BUTTON YOU BEAUTY!! FIXED
   
  Sorry, just freaked out there for a bit. I'm so glad i found that reset button.


----------



## jono454

Hey everyone i just wanted to share my new found experience with the E17 again.
   
  Up until now (i've had the E17 since day 1) i've only used this little big boy as a DAC (docked on my E9) to go with my EF5. I'm totally happy with what i have right now but i was curious as to what a full sized DAC could do to bring out my EF-5 and DT990/K702 so i decided to post a listing. I didn't get any responses for the first few days and within those days i managed to pick up a decent optical cable from a buddy of mine. Then it hit me...while i was playing Uncharted 3 on my PS3 through my wireless sony headphones (they sound like crap but i never really cared how detailed the sound could be when i game) I had remembered that the PS3 has an optical input. So hey why the heck not...i plugged in the optical cable from the PS3 to the E17 docked on my E9. I started the game (uncharted 3) and i didn't notice anything too special (still on start screen) then when i was actually in the game...this is when EVERYTHING changed. At first he spoke and i could hear him loud and clear and when i started moving the assisting characters followed behind me and when they said something i honestly thought someone was right behind me speaking to me and it took me by surprise and i actually turned around to check but only realized it was the awesome sound stage. I was so blown away by how detailed it was...as the side characters spoke i turned my character around in circles and i kid you not...the voices were spiraling in a 360 degree motion around my head. Every step i took, every step the side characters took i knew exactly where they were whether they were to my left, my right, on top, below...it's just overwhelming how much your gaming experience can improve. I honestly felt like i was drake himself when i played uncharted 3. In the end i decided to keep my E17 =).
   
  I've shown you guys my setup before but i've made some small minor changes. My only  gripe (this is just being REALLY REALLY picky and i have no problem with this) is that i can't use the USB and Optical function simultaneously so i can game and use my computer at the same time. But hey i'm still happy regardless.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





wahu said:


> Ahhh getting ready to watch game of thrones and my e17 died!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  i ALWAYS watch game of thrones with my E17...it's just that much better.
   
  I've tried using regular speakers but it just won't do haha


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 is that a good show?  have you seen Breaking Bad?  amaaazing show.


----------



## papaverhybridum

Fiio E17 or Z02 for ATRIO MG7+SANSA? (electronic music generally)
   
*Thanks.*


----------



## wahu

Quote: 





hyogen said:


> is that a good show?  have you seen Breaking Bad?  amaaazing show.


 
  You haven't seen game of thrones? OMG
   
  Yeh I love breaking bad too. You can't compare the two shows cuz they are so different. Game of thrones is like lord of the rings mixed with dune mixed with melrose place.
   
  Now to make this relevant to the E17 thread..... I love using my E17 for everything from music to shows to games. I love the bass boost which boosts just the really low frequencies and the sleep timer is good if you want to fall asleep. Oh and my new favourite feature.. the reset button 
   
  Anyone had any issues with the hold switch? I haven't had a problem with it yet but i use it so much that it could potentially wear out.


----------



## Seph99

I have a Realtek® ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio as an onboard sound card on my computer.
  Would the E17 give me a better audio quality if connected via USB ?
  I am using Sennheiser HD 558.


----------



## bowei006

seph99 said:


> I have a Realtek® ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio as an onboard sound card on my computer.
> Would the E17 give me a better audio quality if connected via USB ?
> I am using Sennheiser HD 558.




The improvement in sound to an audiophile would be huge. Sounddreamer had an 558 last I remembered and he loved the E17 with the 558. It changes depending on people but if you want a portable and desktop entry into the audiophile world of sound then do some more research and make a descision. But to our community, an onboard chip is unnaceptable.(most cases)


----------



## Seph99

Thanks for the info. Yeah i am just starting to change my audio equipment when I heard at a friends setup how much difference good or even semi good audio equipment can make to good music.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seph99 said:


> Thanks for the info. Yeah i am just starting to change my audio equipment when I heard at a friends setup how much difference good or even semi good audio equipment can make to good music.


 
  If you have demo'd "right" equipment and have heard the difference in sound with your HD 558's then this E17 would be a great device. Keep in mind that that price of this device is due to its ability to be portable and desktop, used as a solo DAC, and also its plethora of inputs and options. There are desktop models availble from FiiO and other manufactuers if that is what you are looking for. Otherwise the E17 to improve the sound would be a great purchase for any mid end headphone and below.


----------



## Seph99

The E17 also appealed to me for its mobile use with my laptop and ipod touch as its not as heavy / bulky as a desktop only version.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seph99 said:


> The E17 also appealed to me for its mobile use with my laptop and ipod touch as its not as heavy / bulky as a desktop only version.


 
  I would wait a month....and then follow Micca Store on facebook and or twitter. Prices have skyrocketed right now due to lack of supply and a huge demand. For the last almost half year, America and around the world has had a shortage of the E17 with it selling out pretty fast almost every time an authorized dealer puts it up. I do not know how the demand is anymore and will guess that this is probably the beginning of no "Sell out" demand and an average price of $140-$150. However I can not tell you that for sure.


----------



## Seph99

Mhm good to know, I was going to wait until next month for my paycheck anyway so that's good to know. Right now u can only get the E17 via Amazon here for about 130 euro which is about 160$ US.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seph99 said:


> Mhm good to know, I was going to wait until next month for my paycheck anyway so that's good to know. Right now u can only get the E17 via Amazon here for about 130 euro which is about 160$ US.


 
  That is actually cheaper than the U.S right now. Especially considering how much more expensive European bought electronics ususally cost.


----------



## Seph99

Mhm I actually see a special bundle offer here for an E17 and E9 for 280$ US which is about 20 dollars cheaper as buying them separately?
  Is that a good bargain / better application than just the E17 ?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seph99 said:


> Mhm I actually see a special bundle offer here for an E17 and E9 for 280$ US which is about 20 dollars cheaper as buying them separately?
> Is that a good bargain / better application than just the E17 ?


 
*IT depends on if you need an E9*. I personally choose not to get an E9 and instead am getting an NFB 12.1($250) and an Objective 2 Amplifier($160).
   
  Do some research, unless you have a reason to or were brought to the E9 for more power I don't think you need it, but then again. I don't know your whole situation.


----------



## gillib

Hy all,
   
  I have success by connecting my Ipad (3) with the FiiO E17 via Matrix Audio USB-DDC. I sounds great. You only need one coax cable.
   

   
  Here is the link to the shop where I bought it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0084ZTTVO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
   
  ciao
  Bruno


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





manshear said:


> Hi Ian,
> 
> First let me reiterate my situation.  I've been using the E17 with my iPad via CCK and USB hub to play 96khz-24bit FLAC files using FLAC Player.  Up until the iOS was updated to 5.1, this set up worked perfectly.  After the iOS update to 5.1 I get what sounds like distortion (maybe it is this "ragged top end" you speak of) on any files that are above 48khz. They can be FLAC files on FLAC Player or AIFF files on the Apple music player - it doesn't matter.  I've worked with Dan Leehr (FLAC Player developer) to see if he could do anything to no avail.  I'm desparately seeking a solution!!  My "portable" Hi-Res DAP is rendered useless because of this.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My situation is similar except since I am using the New iPad (3) then I have no experience before iOS 5.1. My comment about a ragged top end was about USB cable quality and not related to the real problem.
   
  My experience of using FLAC player to play 96khz – 24 bit FLAC files is that there is a continual clicking sound overlaying the music. This only happens to me with FLAC player because it syncs. the E17 at 96khz.  If I use Capriccio, GoldenEar or EqualizerPro then they play fine. However they must be decoding the FLAC file and pumping it out to the E17 at 48khz, 16 bit. At least that’s what it says on the E17’s display.
   
  Given this situation the questions you ask are not really relevant but rather than ignore them I will tell you that I have used two different USB hubs, also a Y cable and a straightforward USBA to USBA cable and various USBA to USBMiniB cables. The only ones to definitely avoid are the PoundStore versions.
   
*SUGGESTION*
   
  If Dan Leehr is experiencing this problem on other brands of DAC then perhaps he should consider the same solution. If you are in touch with him could you persuade him to add “*LIMIT output to 48 / 16*” as an option to FLAC Player. Then at least we have a way of using the E17.
   
  Currently the best options available to E17 users seem to be:
   
  1. Persuade Dan to implement the above option
  2. Use a competing FLAC playing app. Of the above I recommend GoldenEar at the moment.
  3. Use a LOD cable. That means you are using the Apple DAC but the one in the New iPad seems pretty good. This solution also has the advantage that you don’t need to carry a USB hub but are still using the E17's excellent headamp.
   
  Is it worth you talking to Dan?
   
  Ian


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





gillib said:


> Hy all,
> 
> I have success by connecting my Ipad (3) with the FiiO E17 via Matrix Audio USB-DDC. I sounds great. You only need one coax cable.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Bruno,
   
  This is great news, please see my post immediately above for reasons why this is important to me. Can I ask you:
   
  1. Are you able to play 96khz 24 bit FLAC files with this solution.
  2. If so which App. do you use?
  3. Does the E17 say 96khz 24 bit on the display or only 48khz 16 bit
   
  Ian


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> My situation is similar except since I am using the New iPad (3) then I have no experience before iOS 5.1. My comment about a ragged top end was about USB cable quality and not related to the real problem.
> 
> My experience of using FLAC player to play 96khz – 24 bit FLAC files is that there is a continual clicking sound overlaying the music. This only happens to me with FLAC player because it syncs. the E17 at 96khz.  If I use Capriccio, GoldenEar or EqualizerPro then they play fine. However they must be decoding the FLAC file and pumping it out to the E17 at 48khz, 16 bit. At least that’s what it says on the E17’s display.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for responding Ian!!
   
  One more question - Is the clicking very fast - say about 8 clicks or more per second?
   
  I'm hoping the USB to SPDIF converter mentioned in the posts on either side of yours works.  That should take care of everything, though it is a $50.00 solution.
   
  If I hear that the USB to SPDIF converter doesn't work, I will talk to Dan.  He wasn't able to replicate the problem.  He was very understanding.  He said he would see what other developers might be experiencing. Since I had it working prior to the iOS upgrade, he and I are certain Apple changed something.  He suggested posting the issue on the Apple forums, though didn't think there would be much hope given the small number of consumers impacted.  I haven't posted anything yet, but will (again) if the USB to SPDIF converter doesn't work.


----------



## IKE60

gillib said:


> I have success by connecting my Ipad (3) with the FiiO E17 via Matrix Audio USB-DDC. I sounds great. You only need one coax cable.




I can't tell from the pictures (yours or Amazon's), and I'm new to all this. Is that a female RCA connector on the SPDIF end of the DDC?

Thanks.


----------



## gillib

Quote: 





> 1. Are you able to play 96khz 24 bit FLAC files with this solution.
> 2. If so which App. do you use?
> 3. Does the E17 say 96khz 24 bit on the display or only 48khz 16 bit


 
   
  Hallo Ian,
   
  1. Yes
  2. Flac Player, Dan Leehr L.L.C.
  3. 96kHz 24 bit
   
  The Matrix has a female RCA connector.
   
  Bruno


----------



## gillib

Another finding.
  I often use my ipad to listen to my music which is stored on my Mac mini. I connect via the app 'Music' to iTunes over wlan. Itunes is able to store music in 24/96. I can play these files with E17, it shows 96 kHz 24 bit.
  Bruno


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





gillib said:


> Hallo Ian,
> 
> 1. Yes
> 2. Flac Player, Dan Leehr L.L.C.
> ...


 
  Hey Bruno,
   
  Do you hear anything like very fast clicking (almost like a small electric motor) or what might also sound like crackling distortion when listening to these hi-rez files?  Now that I think of it, it almost sounds like interference - the kind I used to hear when I was a kid when you had a toy that had a small electric motor running close enough to a radio.
   
  If not, did you ever use the E17 with a powered USB hub and hear what I describe above?


----------



## gillib

No, nothing, USB powered and not powered.
  Bruno


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





gillib said:


> No, nothing, USB powered and not powered.
> Bruno


 
  Hmmm.  What brand and model of powered USB hub did you use?  Are you certain the files are 96/24 and it's not just the connection showing as 96/24 (does that make sense)?  At this point, I'm not sure it is worth the $50 plus shipping from Japan to "experiment" with this USB to SPDIF converter.  Hopefully someone that is experiencing what I am is brave enough to do so and chimes in.
   
  I'm baffled why my situation is not more wide-spread.  Again to reiterate, I hear a fast clicking or crackling sound on hi-rez (96khz/24bit) files from iPad 2 with iOS 5.1.1 via FLAC Player (FLAC files) or "Music Player" (AIFF files) with E17 and powered USB Hub.  My Hub is a Belkin model F4U040.  Also I spoke to an iPad3 owner that did experience the same issue via a powered USB hub (was also a Belkin, but not the same model).


----------



## gillib

I do not need a powered USB Hub. The USB to SPDIF converter (Matrix) does not need one.
   
  I know how to handle 96/24 files. My solution is working.
   
  Bruno


----------



## MickeyVee

Does iTunes stream hi-rez files? Thought I read somewhere that iTunes streams 44/16 regardless of what the original file is.
  Quote: 





gillib said:


> Another finding.
> I often use my ipad to listen to my music which is stored on my Mac mini. I connect via the app 'Music' to iTunes over wlan. Itunes is able to store music in 24/96. I can play these files with E17, it shows 96 kHz 24 bit.
> Bruno


----------



## gillib

The iTunes store does not sell 96/24 music. iTunes can play it.
   
  Bruno


----------



## Prakhar

Can anyone comment on the e17s bass boost?


----------



## Darkblade48

What do you want to know?
   
  It is quite good, I can go to about +6 or +8 for some songs, though I do not really use it.


----------



## Prakhar

I was wondring quantity and quality and if it encroaches on the mids? I was basically thinking between zo2 and e17... I think I would like the ZO2 as an amp but I think the e17 would offer the technicalities and the dac is a plus.


----------



## bowei006

iTunes streams with its "airplay" feature and so can iOS devices. Airplay supports up to any format (not sure about this) up to 44.1KHz at 16bit.

The bass is good and enough for most.


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





gillib said:


> I do not need a powered USB Hub. The USB to SPDIF converter (Matrix) does not need one.
> 
> I know how to handle 96/24 files. My solution is working.
> 
> Bruno


 
  Oh, sorry Bruno, I must have misunderstood you.  I know with the USB to SPDIF converter you don't need a powered USB hub.  However, from your prior response I thought you did use a powered USB hub at one time and didn't have any of the distortion or crackling on hi-res files.  Trying to determine why you may not have heard the crackling, I thought perhaps the files weren't actually 96/24 - I was grasping at straws.  For instance, when I play my 96/24 FLAC files via Foobar and Optical SPDIF on my computer through the E17, it reads 192/24 on the E17.  In fact it reads 192/24 regardless of the sampling rate of the tune, be it 44.1/16, 48/16, 88.2/24, etc.
   
  I truly thank you and everyone else for all the information you have provided to help my situation.  Please don't take this as me being combative.  I just want to be able to play my hi-res files on my iPad using the E17.  I've been struggling with finding a solution for months.  I'm trying to get as much information I can from people that have had success before I go throwing money at possible solutions that may not work.


----------



## tme110

I have no idea how the e17 does it but many DACs display data rates based off meta data and not from the actual signal they are decoding.
   
  I had some clicking with my MRT MS 2+ but it all went away when I got a half decent usb cable.  I'm not talking anything fancy, just a certified usb 2.0 cable I paid $7 for.  I don't use any free/printer usb cables anymore.
   
  Other people got rid of clicking by changing buffer sizes in foobar, but you're talking about your ipad so....


----------



## unknwn

hello,
  i had a strange experience with e17 battery last two days. Both times before going to sleep and switching off my e17 i checked battery indicator and it showed full. I didn't disconnect it from my headphones nor from my laptop(usb cable). Next morning red light was on. After switching on my e17 battery indicator showed empty. It started charging even though last time usb charging was off. After about one hour battery indicator became full. Why did battery indicator showed it's empty?


----------



## bowei006

When the E17 is plugged in through USB with charge on there is a delay in the battery indicator. It will show it empty..... And then show the indicator filling up and then empty again.


----------



## Necrontyr

Looking at fiios homepage , the image is a concept art of the fiio e17 , anyone else think the display features are cooler than the current ? I'd like to see a firmware update for my e17 to perhaps support showing the bass level, or a more advanced sleep timer. 
   
  See fiio.com.cn to see what I mean


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

Quote:


unknwn said:


> hello,
> i had a strange experience with e17 battery last two days. Both times before going to sleep and switching off my e17 i checked battery indicator and it showed full. I didn't disconnect it from my headphones nor from my laptop(usb cable). Next morning red light was on. After switching on my e17 battery indicator showed empty. It started charging even though last time usb charging was off. After about one hour battery indicator became full. Why did battery indicator showed it's empty?


 
  It may not have gone into suspend due to setting or otherwise when you turned off your laptop, and then got partially or fully discharged overnight... even if you're not actually using it it, the battery will drain fairly quickly if not going to sleep. It happened to me a couple of times esp. when used with the docking station.


----------



## Razor-BladE

Anyone else had problems with it not being able to turn back on? It's been working fine for a month or two now, but now it doesn't want to turn on no matter how long I hold the on/off button for!  This is going to be a pain if I have to send it back to HK... This is exactly what I was hoping wouldn't happen!
   
  Edit: Ok, the reset button worked.. But is this the start of a bigger problem?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





razor-blade said:


> Anyone else had problems with it not being able to turn back on? It's been working fine for a month or two now, but now it doesn't want to turn on no matter how long I hold the on/off button for!  This is going to be a pain if I have to send it back to HK... This is exactly what I was hoping wouldn't happen!
> 
> Edit: Ok, the reset button worked.. But is this the start of a bigger problem?


 
  Sometimes that happenes to me. I just unplug and replug the USB back in.
   
  Considering how a reset button press or a usb replug fixes it and only 3-4 people have asked about it... I would say no.


----------



## starstern

SCHIIT Valhalla Single-Ended Triode vs Beyerdynamic A1 vs 
 FiiO E17 "ALPEN  which best in regards sound quality ?????


----------



## Xinn3r

Hi,
  I was wondering
  laptop>E17 vs. iTouch 4th gen>E11, which will come out on top?


----------



## bowei006

Definateley laptop to E17.

The E17s dac and audio circuitry and everything will be used.


----------



## Xinn3r

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Definateley laptop to E17.
> The E17s dac and audio circuitry and everything will be used.


 
   
  So in essence, the E17's DAC is better than the DAC in the Touch, correct?
   
  Guess I'll be selling my E11 and buying an E17 then


----------



## bowei006

Yes it is. Not to mention the circuitry and everything. And remember that I am talking in technical terms. How much upgrade is dependant on everyone differently but yes, the E17 with laptop is superior to touch and E11. As the op amps is also superior in E17, the touch and E17 would still be technically superior.


----------



## Xinn3r

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes it is. Not to mention the circuitry and everything. And remember that I am talking in technical terms. How much upgrade is dependant on everyone differently but yes, the E17 with laptop is superior to touch and E11. As the op amps is also superior in E17, the touch and E17 would still be technically superior.


 
   
  Aha, thank you very much for the detailed explanation!


----------



## Masqmotumbo

How do I go about plugging this to my iMac via the optical input? What cable? Also will the sound quality improve drastically compared to the iMac? Or should I spend more money on a dac? I will be using Ultrasone signature pro. Thanks

Also is the audinst Mx-1 better than the e17?


----------



## kajendiran

Dear All,
              I hope you are well. I have a question that one of you may be able to answer for me. I have an android phone and it appears that it will not support line out via the usb, thus in this case I would be double amping the output. There does not appear to be a way around this at present, unless I get a new phone or an ipod. The questions I have are:
   
  what benefit will I gain, if any from using an e17?
   
  Will it simply amount to an increase in volume or can I expect improvements in sound quality?
   
  Would the sound quality be reduced through double amping? In what way?
   
  I appreciate that a line out would have the greatest impact but I just wanted to know if this product would benefit me. 
   
  Thank you for your time
  All the best
  Kajendiran


----------



## kajendiran

Dear All,
           I forgot to ask another question. I use linux, specifically Ubuntu as my operating system.
   
  Does anyone know if running the e17 through Ubuntu is possible?
   
  Is this a complicated process? If so, any instructions? (I could not find much on google, except one post stating it just worked automatically)
   
  Thank you 
  Kajendiran


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Dear All,
> I forgot to ask another question. I use linux, specifically Ubuntu as my operating system.
> 
> Does anyone know if running the e17 through Ubuntu is possible?
> ...


 
   
  Many use E17 with Ubuntu. It seems its not usually just plug and play like Windows but if you use Linux then you probably know how to instal stuff if you need to. Sudo apt get- E17  (not a real command)
   
  Nothing complicated or on the E17's end. USB with E17 is class 1 driver so it's all on the E17's side. If you are running through optical or coaxil you may need S/PDIF drivers or soemthing depending on the program you are using and flavor of Linux.
  Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Dear All,
> I hope you are well. I have a question that one of you may be able to answer for me. I have an android phone and it appears that it will not support line out via the usb, thus in this case I would be double amping the output. There does not appear to be a way around this at present, unless I get a new phone or an ipod. The questions I have are:
> 
> what benefit will I gain, if any from using an e17?
> ...


 

 The benefits are that you will have more "power", "volume", and look and feel like an audiophile. There can also be coloration of the sound to your liking through the two op amps in the e17 and also its EQ abilities.
 You can expect slight improvements....if THEY ARE EVEN visible or audible to you is another question. You should be able to note a different sound signature however.
 Some "super audiophiles" would say yes as you are just amping the bad signal and if done wrong can worsen it even  more. But in this case you won't worsen it technically but subjectively maybe, as in if the sound signature doesn't fit some songs.
 This product is mainly for DUAL PURPOSE use as portable amp and DAC at home or on the go(with select devices). You may have a better chance getting a Cowon.


----------



## Tilpo

Dual amping isn't that bad at all.

Amps have an incredibly high input impedance (relative to headphones), meaning they are extremely easy to drive for another amp. 
In fact, dual amping happens almost all the time. For example, a typical desktop DAC has enough voltage swing (typically 2V) to drive a normal headphone , it simply can't supply the required amount of power. Which is where the headphone amplifier comes in.


----------



## kajendiran

Dear bowei006 & Tilpo,
               thank you for taking the time to answer my questions so fully. I feel reassured enough to order one.
   
  I am so glad it is possible to get it to work in Ubuntu, that's a reason in itself, my laptop output is poor. I have a presonus firebox soundcard but for the life of me I could never get it to work in Ubuntu and I have to switch to windows each time I produce music.
   
  I will test the e17 and see if it makes an improvement using as a portable amp, until I get line out capabilities.
   
  I just read about cowon players, thank you, seems it makes a substantial improvement to listening experience, will have to consider this.
   
  Thank you once again for your time and expertise. 
  All the best
  Kajendiran


----------



## Tilpo

kajendiran said:


> Dear bowei006 & Tilpo,
> thank you for taking the time to answer my questions so fully. I feel reassured enough to order one.
> 
> I am so glad it is possible to get it to work in Ubuntu, that's a reason in itself, my laptop output is poor. I have a presonus firebox soundcard but for the life of me I could never get it to work in Ubuntu and I have to switch to windows each time I produce music.
> ...



The E17 should just use normal USB audio drivers, which are natively supported by most distros of Linux, as far as I know.


----------



## musicinmymind

Hi,
   
  Any one has used Mini Toslink to Toslink cable like this, to connect E17 with laptop?
   
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1556&seq=1&format=2
   
  Del XPS support SPDIF output from Realtek HD card, connecting with these will be better SQ than USB?
   
  Please let me know.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any one has used Mini Toslink to Toslink cable like this, to connect E17 with laptop?
> 
> ...


 
  You must first make sure the Dell HAS one of the two plugs you see in the pic. Does it have the flat or pointy end? (Toslink end or min toslink)
   
  Unless you want 192KHz and has a soundcard that can output it(most can) and have files that are that. then stick with USB.


----------



## IKE60

musicinmymind said:


> Hi,
> ...
> Del XPS support SPDIF output from Realtek HD card, connecting with these will be better SQ than USB?



The SPDIF output on my Dell XPS 15 notebook is a 1/8" (3.5mm) jack which doubles as a headphone output. I use USB out. Windows 7 describes the USB out as SPDIF. I'm not sure of the technical details, but I think the USB _interface_ uses the SPDIF _protocol_.

In short, I don't think there is a quality difference, since both should be bit-perfect.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any one has used Mini Toslink to Toslink cable like this, to connect E17 with laptop?
> 
> ...


 
   
  For this cable * Mini M/M 5.0mm OD Molded Cable, *you need to use the optical adapter, connect the 3.5mm connector to your Dell XPS, and them connect the other end of connector ( square shape ) to the optical adapter, and the plug the adapter to the SPDIF in of E17.
   
  BTW, we are making a new 3.5 mini to 3.5 mini Toslink cable so our user don't need to use the adapter which may cause signal loss and some other problem. the new cable like below, the retail price will be around $10. model name L12, ETA, JULY


----------



## musicinmymind

Thanks a lot for all these info

 will go with (3.5mm) jack to square shape for now, I do not want to bypass Realtek as I use their EQ on top of RPGWiZaRD’s Dolby and very happy with result. Optical should be some gain from 3.5 line in which I using now.


----------



## Tilpo

jamesfiio said:


> BTW, we are making a new 3.5 mini to 3.5 mini Toslink cable so our user don't need to use the adapter which may cause signal loss and some other problem. the new cable like below, *the retail price will be around $10*. model name L12, ETA, JULY



This is why you guys are so awesome.


----------



## ThatNzGuy

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> For this cable * Mini M/M 5.0mm OD Molded Cable, *you need to use the optical adapter, connect the 3.5mm connector to your Dell XPS, and them connect the other end of connector ( square shape ) to the optical adapter, and the plug the adapter to the SPDIF in of E17.
> 
> BTW, we are making a new 3.5 mini to 3.5 mini Toslink cable so our user don't need to use the adapter which may cause signal loss and some other problem. the new cable like below, the retail price will be around $10. model name L12, ETA, JULY


 
   
  Looks good, wanted to get a toslink.
  Supply to New Zealand pls 
   
   
  I've been wondering if that 3.5mm jack on the Dell XPS l502x was a spdif out, when you go into the Dell audio by Realtek interface, you can select the port to operate as an spdif out under 'advanced > jack information > press on the port'
 Been looking around, and people have been getting a red optical light signal from connecting mini-toslink.

 I've just tried some double amping with my z1050 > e17 > tf10 (because the fiio l5 walkman LOD sticks out, wish they made a right angled one), set the z's volume to halfway and set the e17 to 30, the sound has definitely lost some of it's detail, the highs sound grainy, mids are muffled.
  ( im not quite sure how the volume settings should go, should i max out the z and alter the volume on the e17, or should i max the e17 and alter on the z? I went with half half, because at high levels, i can hear a prevalent electrical hum through the e17)


----------



## kajendiran

Dear All, so I bit the bullet and got the Fiio e17. Just wanted to share my experience. Basically its an awesome product. The improvement in sound quality even despite my double amping is significant, more than I thought possible. One issue I have is that it shows 48k 16bit on the screen. I can't seem to figure out how to change it to 96k 24bit. Is this actually possible or is it set by my phone output?
   
  When I connected it via USB to my laptop running Ubuntu 12.04, it was recognized immediately. Again, it showed 48k 16bit but I managed to find a work around:
  1) open terminal
  2) type:
  cd / - then enter
  sudo gedit  etc/pulse/daemon.conf - then enter
   
  copy and paste the following and save file, then restart computer:

default-sample-format = s24le
default-sample-rate = 96000
   
This worked for me, found it here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1862928
   
  Anyway, your suggestion on how to get 96k 24bit with my phone, if possible, would be appreciated.
  Thanks 
  Kaj


----------



## Tilpo

kajendiran said:


> Anyway, your suggestion on how to get 96k 24bit with my phone, if possible, would be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Kaj



Most likely it is not possible. 

Perhaps it might be possible if you're running a rooted Android device, but so far I have not even been able to get generic USB audio devices to work on my phone at all (Galaxy Note running 2.3.X)
What phone do you have?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Dear All, so I bit the bullet and got the Fiio e17. Just wanted to share my experience. Basically its an awesome product. The improvement in sound quality even despite my double amping is significant, more than I thought possible. One issue I have is that it shows 48k 16bit on the screen. I can't seem to figure out how to change it to 96k 24bit. Is this actually possible or is it set by my phone output?
> 
> When I connected it via USB to my laptop running Ubuntu 12.04, it was recognized immediately. Again, it showed 48k 16bit but I managed to find a work around:
> 1) open terminal
> ...


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3105#post_8341120
   
  This post from me MAY or may not help your situation. It's a bit harder as you are on ubuntu and I currently do not so I wouldn't know. 
   
  Glad you like it  Using it with the computer as a DAC and AMP is what I prefer and what I settled with during my course with it.


----------



## kajendiran

Dear Bowei006,
           thanks for the reply, your comments helped. The issue is with the bitrate encoding of the files I am playing. Some of the files are not labelled properly and thus it seems to play at default which is 48k 16bit.  I tried with a different album and it seems to switch as it should do according to the source recording.
   
  One other issue I just noticed is that there is a line of dud pixels on the screen... does not really affect its use but still, its brand new. The dilemma is whether to live with it or to lose it for a week while they replace it. Difficult decision...lol. 
   
  Anways, thank you once again for your help bowei006.


----------



## kajendiran

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Dear All, so I bit the bullet and got the Fiio e17. Just wanted to share my experience. Basically its an awesome product. The improvement in sound quality even despite my double amping is significant, more than I thought possible. One issue I have is that it shows 48k 16bit on the screen. I can't seem to figure out how to change it to 96k 24bit. Is this actually possible or is it set by my phone output?
> 
> When I connected it via USB to my laptop running Ubuntu 12.04, it was recognized immediately. Again, it showed 48k 16bit but I managed to find a work around:
> 1) open terminal
> ...


 
  One thing I forgot to mention, the above fix for Ubuntu 12.04 has a problem, all audio will play at the bitrate you set regardless of source. I can't find a way around this yet, I will update if I figure it out.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Dear Bowei006,
> thanks for the reply, your comments helped. The issue is with the bitrate encoding of the files I am playing. Some of the files are not labelled properly and thus it seems to play at default which is 48k 16bit.  I tried with a different album and it seems to switch as it should do according to the source recording.
> 
> One other issue I just noticed is that there is a line of dud pixels on the screen... does not really affect its use but still, its brand new. The dilemma is whether to live with it or to lose it for a week while they replace it. Difficult decision...lol.
> ...


 

 Labeled? Not sure what you mean
 Dud? You sure? When the screen changes or when you "interact" with the device, the pixels do mess up and won't be smooth. Like if you raise the volume or go to menu and the thing changes you will pixels that aren't smooth and are missing blocks here and then for a few seconds. That's normal. If there are ACTUALLY dead pixels then that's another thing. Depending on where you live, replacement could take 2 weeks to 1 month or more.


----------



## kajendiran

When I say labelled, the audio file is apparently associated with information such as bit-rate in addition to eg the song name and artist. When creating these files, it appears the program I used has made some errors with this and not associated a proper bit rate, thus when played, it defaults to 16bit. This is just information I found, but it seems to make some sort of sense as most of the time, the bit rate changes with the source. 
   
  I noticed the pixel flickering when things change on the screen, but on mine, there is always a line down the screen at the same location regardless of where I am in the menu, it appears to be a fault.  I may just live with it as it does not effect use. 
   
  Thanks again


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> When I say labelled, the audio file is apparently associated with information such as bit-rate in addition to eg the song name and artist. When creating these files, it appears the program I used has made some errors with this and not associated a proper bit rate, thus when played, it defaults to 16bit. This is just information I found, but it seems to make some sort of sense as most of the time, the bit rate changes with the source.
> 
> I noticed the pixel flickering when things change on the screen, but on mine, there is always a line down the screen at the same location regardless of where I am in the menu, it appears to be a fault.  I may just live with it as it does not effect use.
> 
> Thanks again


 
  I see, that's what I thought you meant but I was just making sure. If you really want to squeeze out the right stuff from your setup then I guess you could try to go and fix that.
   
  Sorry to hear about the screen thing. It's up to you if you want to get it fixed. Your local retailer if you bought it locally should be able to fix it easily. If you bought it online locally (same country) then they may offer to fix that too. If you bought it from an FiiO authorized dealer then they have too and finally you have a 1 year limited warranty from FiiO themselves which covers defects like what you have.


----------



## Tilpo

kajendiran said:


> When I say labelled, the audio file is apparently associated with information such as bit-rate in addition to eg the song name and artist. When creating these files, it appears the program I used has made some errors with this and not associated a proper bit rate, thus when played, it defaults to 16bit. This is just information I found, but it seems to make some sort of sense as most of the time, the bit rate changes with the source.
> 
> I noticed the pixel flickering when things change on the screen, but on mine, there is always a line down the screen at the same location regardless of where I am in the menu, it appears to be a fault.  I may just live with it as it does not effect use.
> 
> Thanks again



Could you possibly take a picture of the problem? It could either be a defect in the screen itself, or something else hardware related.


----------



## IKE60

kajendiran said:


> Anyway, your suggestion on how to get 96k 24bit with my phone, if possible, would be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Kaj



Since you mentioned double-amping, I assume you've connected the phone to the E17 via the headphone jack or line out. If so, the signal is _analog_. There is no bit rate or bit depth.

I'll have to check my E17 when I get home, but if it shows 48kHz, 16b with AUX input, it is only a place holder on the screen - it's not actually the input signal.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> Since you mentioned double-amping, I assume you've connected the phone to the E17 via the headphone jack or line out. If so, the signal is _analog_. There is no bit rate or bit depth.
> I'll have to check my E17 when I get home, but if it shows 48kHz, 16b with AUX input, it is only a place holder on the screen - it's not actually the input signal.


 
  Phones and most devices output 44.1KHz/16bit. Not sure what you mean but the file itself has a bit rate and depth and that's how it will be played back. Devices can "restrict" or downsample it.
   
  48KHz and 16bit is not a placeholder...in the sense you are saying. 48KHz shows up for both 48KHz and 44.1KHz, it means it's one of those two. Same with 192KHz and 96KHz being placeholders for whatever 192KHz's near buddy(forgot) was and 96KHz's "buddy" 88.2KHz is. The devices output 44.1KHz and thus that shows up.


----------



## IKE60

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Phones and most devices output 44.1KHz/16bit. Not sure what you mean but the file itself has a bit rate and depth and that's how it will be played back. Devices can "restrict" or downsample it.
> 
> 48KHz and 16bit is not a placeholder...in the sense you are saying. 48KHz shows up for both 48KHz and 44.1KHz, it means it's one of those two. Same with 192KHz and 96KHz being placeholders for whatever 192KHz's near buddy(forgot) was and 96KHz's "buddy" 88.2KHz is. The devices output 44.1KHz and thus that shows up.



 Nope.  See graphic below:
  

  
 The entire purpose of a DAC is to take the lower "square" digital signal and convert it into the upper "smooth" analog signal. In the picture above, sampling rate is represented by the number of steps per second, and bit depth is represented by the number of possible steps between min and max voltage. Bit depth is sampling rate times bit depth. The higher each of these numbers is, the closer to the original analog input the digital representation will be, and the better _any_ DAC will be able to reproduce it. The better, or more sophisticated, the DAC is, the better it will be able to reproduce quality analog output from the digital input.
  
 The signal output from the headphone or line-out jack of *ANY* device is analog.  It has already been processed by the DAC in that device (iPad, PC, iPod, phone, etc.)
  
 When you feed this analog signal to the E17 (or any such device), there is no syncing of the DACs clock to the input bit rate, because there is no input bit rate. The DAC is bypassed and the device is acting purely as an amp. This is how the E17 functions _anytime_ you are using the AUX input.
  
 Clearly, *48K 16bit* is the default text for that portion of the E17 display (i.e. a placeholder). My E17 shows that every time it is turned on and while it is set for AUX input. IMO, the designers should have made it switch to *Analog*, *Amp Only*, or *DAC Bypass* when in AUX input mode, but they didn't - oh well.  When I tested it using my PC, the E17 correctly shows 32K, 48K, and 96K for those digital inputs (in USB mode), but shows 48K when the signal is actually 44.1K. Who knows why? Perhaps a programming slip.
  
 Long story short: E17 AUX input from Headphone or LO jacks = ANALOG = not 48K (or any bitrate) = E17 DAC bypassed = bitrate displayed on E17 is meaningless.


_Edit: fixed sampling rate vs. bit rate_


----------



## prsut

Quote: 





prakhar said:


> I was wondring quantity and quality and if it encroaches on the mids? I was basically thinking between zo2 and e17... I think I would like the ZO2 as an amp but I think the e17 would offer the technicalities and the dac is a plus.


 
   
  I have both zo2 and e17.
  my source is cowon s9, or oppo980 (dvd player), or samsung ue40d6530 (TV) or toshiba notebook. Headphones i have : phonak audeo pfe112, vsonic gr07, denon d2000 recabled.
  in any case e17 is better for me not a little but at least one class. No hiss, no dummy bass, better sound at all. I'm not bass head, I just want to listen music as close as possible to neutrality, clarity and details. For that, e17 is step above, plus looks better and is universal. Simply said: z02 degrades sound from cowon, while e17 no...
   
  howgh.


----------



## Tilpo

ike60 said:


> Nope.  See graphic below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True to a certain degree. 
Generally speaking too high sampling rates (bit rate refers strictly to file size / second) will perform worse at a certain point because in very basic terms the chip can't keep up anymore. Usually the best performance for most DAC chips is achieved at ~96kHz.

Word length (bit depth) if higher than a crazy low number such as 8 bit will approximate itself as noise. This means that for each wordlength there is an associated noise floor. Increasing wordlength will _only decrease the theoretically achievable noise floor._ For 16bit this noise floor is a very low -96dB FS (full scale). This means that the difference between the loudest and softest signal possible is 96dB.
For 24 bit this is -144dB, which is by any means unachievable by any commercially available DAC as far as I know. Therefore getting more than 24 bits in there is just a stupid waste of storage and money.


----------



## bowei006

I knew Rikkun would come and offer another explanation.

Thanks ike80. I was getting my sound science wrong so thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> I knew Rikkun would come and offer another explanation.
> Thanks ike80. I was getting my sound science wrong so thanks for the clarification.



You do realize calling me that is bound to confuse people?


----------



## bowei006

^Yup  But hey! Why not?


----------



## IKE60

tilpo said:


> True to a certain degree.



You're right. I fixed the sampling rate / bit rate confusion in my above post.


----------



## gordec

For those who don't want to wait for authorized retailers to replenish their stock. I got mine from houseofdap.com for $140 free shipping. Ordered on 5/23. Got it yesterday. I'm in texas. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Thanks a lot for all these info
> 
> will go with (3.5mm) jack to square shape for now, I do not want to bypass Realtek as I use their EQ on top of RPGWiZaRD’s Dolby and very happy with result. Optical should be some gain from 3.5 line in which I using now.


 
   
  I just got 3.5mm Mini Toslink to Toslink cable, hooked it up into E17 optical input and I had to configure Realtek HD Audio Manager Jack Information, set Realtek Digital Output as default on Control Panel. They did work, but damn Realtek EQ do not work with S/P DIF output and that defeats purpose of getting these cables

 I'm amazed that I cannot find a good stereo multiband EQ download that will simply popup and work with any/all audio that is routed to my systems audio device.... I find tons of freebie players, most of them lousy and intrusive and not at all filling the need. Whether its Youtube, 8tracks, foobar , various 'tv show' sites, audio files/mp3's, movies, whatever.... i need an easy handy EQ 10 brand widget that lets me adjust sound.

 Saw few suggestion on head fi, they point to Algorithmix Red, which is again damn expensive

 Any suggestions


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> I just got 3.5mm Mini Toslink to Toslink cable, hooked it up into E17 optical input and I had to configure Realtek HD Audio Manager Jack Information, set Realtek Digital Output as default on Control Panel. They did work, but damn Realtek EQ do not work with S/P DIF output and that defeats purpose of getting these cables
> 
> I'm amazed that I cannot find a good stereo multiband EQ download that will simply popup and work with any/all audio that is routed to my systems audio device.... I find tons of freebie players, most of them lousy and intrusive and not at all filling the need. Whether its Youtube, 8tracks, foobar , various 'tv show' sites, audio files/mp3's, movies, whatever.... i need an easy handy EQ 10 brand widget that lets me adjust sound.
> 
> ...


 
https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=foobar+EQ
   
  I think this is what you want?
   
  Most on here use Foobar and foobar has TONS of add ons made by audiophiles and musicians and DJ's..for people like you and me. I don't require or am doing EQ'ing at the moment but that google link is a start. Give it some read. Installing add on components to foobar is really easy. It will take an hour or two of learning and scouring and testing but I hope you find it!


----------



## musicinmymind

I use RPGWiZaRD’s setup and do not want to mess with them…he keeps sending updates and I enjoy them.. I want something that works on top of RPGWiZaRD and 8tracks.com which agian I use a lot...surfing and finding music I like
  
  feiao, why don’t you develop something like Realtek Audio manager (these days every sound card has one) which works with E17 or any other fiio DAC…it should be great feature and USP


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> I use RPGWiZaRD’s setup and do not want to mess with them…he keeps sending updates and I enjoy them.. I want something that works on top of RPGWiZaRD and 8tracks.com which agian I use a lot...surfing and finding music I like
> 
> feiao, why don’t you develop something like Realtek Audio manager (these days every sound card has one) which works with E17 or any other fiio DAC…it should be great feature and USP


 
  That was a great EQ guide indeed 
   
*Opinion:*
   
  I have heard many concerns and that the main problem is FiiO's lack of Engineers at the moment for more branched out projects.. Don't know how true this is. Next you have to think of...free or paid. If it's free and universal, it could spread their brand name. But if it sucks it will lessen it and degrade it. How many engineers or if they even have engineers with expertise in MAKING an EQ program is another question. Basically resources and how the public will perceive it is an issue for most companies. that's my opinion on why FiiO isn't just doing everything. The X3 DAP/PMP was slated but stopped.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for info…but for now… I am struck between great detail from E17 USB or Realtek EQ which is not so good except for EQ….annoying


----------



## Tilpo

musicinmymind said:


> I use RPGWiZaRD’s setup and do not want to mess with them…he keeps sending updates and I enjoy them.. I want something that works on top of RPGWiZaRD and 8tracks.com which agian I use a lot...surfing and finding music I like




You can just add a second instance of an equalizer.




I'm not using the Ozone thingy, but that doesn't matter. Nothing stopping you from just adding an instance of the stock EQ DSP.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for suggesting this, I did try earlier, but I wanted a Standalone EQ which works on anything I play on my system, foobar, 8tracks, HDTracks.com, etc, more over the response of different EQ app will be different (some comes out clean…..others make it muddy) so don’t like messing up with many of them….
  
   
  yesterday night, l was able to redirect Realtek output to E17 input using Virtual Audio Cable, initial impression it sound’s clean, but not liking idea of multiple dac….looking at VSTHost with VST EQ plugins and Virtual cables to redirect between Apps/drives ….. with ‘n’ number of VST plugins….options will be unlimited and should be fun trying out different things…


----------



## gordec

I don't know why but after comparing e11 with the e17, the e11 has a significantly better sound stage, clarity, and separation. Even when I plug the e17 to my laptop as dac/amp combo I still prefer the sound from my smartphone aux to e11. Am I missing something ? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gordec said:


> I don't know why but after comparing e11 with the e17, the e11 has a significantly better sound stage, clarity, and separation. Even when I plug the e17 to my laptop as dac/amp combo I still prefer the sound from my smartphone aux to e11. Am I missing something ?
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


 
   
  Everyone is different. Have you "Burned in" the E17? Some people would like to know this and personally I don't really care
   
  Are you missing something? No. Everyone is different and prefers a different sound. Not to mention that there is bias here. Bias? Bias from using the E11 and your smartphone for too long. Many people get "accustomed" to the sound signature and style their gear delivers and uses that to compare to new ones. Exactly what I did when I started(even though I didn't think and tried not to). IT is within all of us to use our current gear to compare and sadly it still happens to me and is unnavoidable to many.
   
  Next there is also the fact that you are using an Android device. With Voodoo and a more colored sound you may just "prefer" it that way. Android is weird and does some...crazy stuff.
   
  How about this, do a one whole day listening thing with the E17 as dAC and amp with your laptop and the next day plug your E11 directly into the AUX out of the laptop and listen to that for a day. See how you feel then. Then you can do the E17 as AUX out and try it that way.
   
  If you still prefer the E11 then that is fine. Whatever makes you happy (especailly) the ears is all that matters. I'm not an audiophile for most of the day. I don't need the flatest and most accurate sound most often. I prefer to listen to it with headphones to match and are colored and fun and just "work" with the music most often than not. Whatever suits you!


----------



## gordec

Listening to music is definitely subjective. I place more emphasis on soundstage and clarity. Will give it some more time before making the final decision. For $80 more, I expect a noticeable improvement. Another reason I got the E17 is that it seems to be more future proof with all the inputs and options.


----------



## weitn

Upgraded my earphone to Sennheirser IE80. They looks so perfect together like they are made for each other. E17 is good match for IE80. Glad E17 has a built-in EQ. IE80 has a strong bass. I believe lots of people will like the strong bass but it is slightly strong for my taste (I used to be bass head but not anymore). I just set the bass setting in E17 to -2 most of the time. However, whenever I wanted some kick from the bass, I switched the bass setting back to 0.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Upgraded my earphone to Sennheirser IE80. They looks so perfect together like they are made for each other. E17 is good match for IE80. Glad E17 has a built-in EQ. IE80 has a strong bass. I believe lots of people will like the strong bass but it is slightly strong for my taste (I used to be bass head but not anymore). I just set the bass setting in E17 to -2 most of the time. However, whenever I wanted some kick from the bass, I switched the bass setting back to 0.


 
  What Camera and settings did you use?
   
  Photoshop? Because it seems like the E17 has a chocolate brown tint that is pairing VERY nicely with the IE80's


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What Camera and settings did you use?
> 
> Photoshop? Because it seems like the E17 has a chocolate brown tint that is pairing VERY nicely with the IE80's


 
   
  I think that's just the lighting.
   
  Anyway nice pics  I have the same setup, Senn IE80, Fiio E17, iPod Nano but im still waiting formy LOD to come. I agree with you though, the E17 and IE80 pair very nicely. 
   
  I still plan on upgrading a few components of my setup to get the best out of it. I'll be getting a silver toxic cable LOD, a silver toxic cable replacement for the IE80 (once it's made available), and maybe an iPod 5.5 to replace my Nano 2g.


----------



## musicinmymind

I got it….figured how to set up EQ on VSTHost that works with E17 USB….

 This is how I did it

 - download and Install Virtual Audio Cable from http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
  - Set line1 of VAC as Default Device
   

  
  - download VSTHost from http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm,
  
  - lunch VST Host, just an exe no install

 - on VSH Host go to Devices->Select Wave Devices, select Line 1 (Virtual Audio Cable) as Input port and E17 for Output port
   


 - download CS12M 1.67 EQ from this site http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html

 - on VST Host select File->New Plugin and select CS12M.dll for EQ plugin

 and that’s it, whatever we play on system...E17 will get it EQ’ed, result is awesome, we can control the sound better...
 There are many plugins out there that gives lot other options, you can find more plugins on  http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html itself


----------



## kajendiran

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Most likely it is not possible.
> Perhaps it might be possible if you're running a rooted Android device, but so far I have not even been able to get generic USB audio devices to work on my phone at all (Galaxy Note running 2.3.X)
> What phone do you have?


 
  I thought it might be complicated. Seems strange that the iphone and ipod are able to output a digital signal and recognize the e17 and yet I am yet to hear of an android device that does this. I wonder if it is a hardware issue or if the software drivers could be hacked somehow in the future. I have a samsung galaxy s3 phone but it will not allow usb, thus aux only with the E17. 
   
  About the screen, have not managed to put up a pic but its clear there is a line of dead pixels, however, because I bought it from Amazon in the UK, they should replace it pretty quick. I am going to enjoy it for a few more days before I send it off thou. 
   
  One question I had however is, I seem to find myself putting the volume pretty high, like at least 45-50 on e17 and full volume on my phone. This seems to give me a good listening volume, levels are not what I would consider  'blasting it'. This seems strange to me because I have read that many people have it on like 20 on the e17? It is not that I listen to  music loud, I feel that the settings that I have it at would be considered normal. I am a little worried however as I use Bose Ae2 headphones and I have not idea about what these headphones will take until something bad happens (bose do not release any specs). 
  What do you think?
   
  Thanks


----------



## kajendiran

Quote: 





weitn said:


> Upgraded my earphone to Sennheirser IE80. They looks so perfect together like they are made for each other. E17 is good match for IE80. Glad E17 has a built-in EQ. IE80 has a strong bass. I believe lots of people will like the strong bass but it is slightly strong for my taste (I used to be bass head but not anymore). I just set the bass setting in E17 to -2 most of the time. However, whenever I wanted some kick from the bass, I switched the bass setting back to 0.


 
  Nice... great set-up and picture. I have always been nervous about getting expensive in-ear phones, how resilient are those?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> I thought it might be complicated. Seems strange that the iphone and ipod are able to output a digital signal and recognize the e17 and yet I am yet to hear of an android device that does this. I wonder if it is a hardware issue or if the software drivers could be hacked somehow in the future. I have a samsung galaxy s3 phone but it will not allow usb, thus aux only with the E17.
> 
> About the screen, have not managed to put up a pic but its clear there is a line of dead pixels, however, because I bought it from Amazon in the UK, they should replace it pretty quick. I am going to enjoy it for a few more days before I send it off thou.
> 
> ...


 
  What volume do you have set on your phone? What gain are you using on the E17?


----------



## Tilpo

kajendiran said:


> I thought it might be complicated. Seems strange that the iphone and ipod are able to output a digital signal and recognize the e17 and yet I am yet to hear of an android device that does this. I wonder if it is a hardware issue or if the software drivers could be hacked somehow in the future. I have a samsung galaxy s3 phone but it will not allow usb, thus aux only with the E17.



Android developers are just lazy. Lots of issues, some even serious, which they never seem to fix. One of the reasons is of course the fact that unlike the iPhone the OS needs to support _a lot_ of different devices.
The lack of USB audio drivers has been noted for quite some time, and is a reported issue. I have heard rumors they are working on it, but I have yet to see result.
I hope there will be support for USB audio drivers when I upgrade to the new version of Android (ICS). 




kajendiran said:


> One question I had however is, I seem to find myself putting the volume pretty high, like at least 45-50 on e17 and full volume on my phone. This seems to give me a good listening volume, levels are not what I would consider  'blasting it'. This seems strange to me because I have read that many people have it on like 20 on the e17? It is not that I listen to  music loud, I feel that the settings that I have it at would be considered normal. I am a little worried however as I use Bose Ae2 headphones and I have not idea about what these headphones will take until something bad happens (bose do not release any specs).
> What do you think?
> 
> 
> Thanks



There is a lot of variation in sensitivity among head/earphones. Unless you actually perceive it as loud, there probably isn't a problem. 
You can try listening on lower volumes and see if you can get used to that, but if you don't enjoy lower listening volumes then there's no point. Even though safety comes first, enjoyment is also very important. 
Usually earphones require ear shattering volumes before they break, so you really shouldn't worry about that either.


----------



## kajendiran

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Android developers are just lazy. Lots of issues, some even serious, which they never seem to fix. One of the reasons is of course the fact that unlike the iPhone the OS needs to support _a lot_ of different devices.
> The lack of USB audio drivers has been noted for quite some time, and is a reported issue. I have heard rumors they are working on it, but I have yet to see result.
> I hope there will be support for USB audio drivers when I upgrade to the new version of Android (ICS).
> There is a lot of variation in sensitivity among head/earphones. Unless you actually perceive it as loud, there probably isn't a problem.
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What volume do you have set on your phone? What gain are you using on the E17?


 
   
  Tilpo/bowei006,
          thank you both for the replies.
   
  My phone is on max volume and the gain setting on the e17 is 12db. This issue is just with my phone, however, I do not need such high volumes when I use with my laptop as a DAC. Must be an issue with the output from the phone.
   
  Yes, considering the number of devices, Android does a good job. I guess it also depends on hardware as some chips may not permit this feature. Also since only audiophiles would care to use and carry around an external DAC, it is probably not high in the list of priorities for Android. I have the Samsung Galaxy S3 which runs ICS already so maybe they will add this in an update someday. 
   
  Thank for the advise about the Bose headphones, you are totally right about volume affecting enjoyment, there is certainly a threshold after which music shines. I guess I will try to see how it goes at the volume I am at and maybe reduce a little. The biggest issue with this is the battery life of the e17 at this volume, I don't get anywhere near the 15hrs Fiio mention. 
   
  Finally, another question for you guys. Using Ubuntu, I have managed to get the e17 to output at either 16bit/48k or 24 bit/96k. I cannot get it to select the bit rate based on the source. Not all my music is of the highest quality, thus, what do you think of listening to mp3 quality at 320kbs when the e17 is set to 24bit? My experience seems to vary for some reason as some mp3s sound fine whilst others sound less good than when at 16bit. 
   
  Anyways, thanks again.


----------



## Tilpo

kajendiran said:


> Finally, another question for you guys. Using Ubuntu, I have managed to get the e17 to output at either 16bit/48k or 24 bit/96k. I cannot get it to select the bit rate based on the source. Not all my music is of the highest quality, thus, what do you think of listening to mp3 quality at 320kbs when the e17 is set to 24bit? My experience seems to vary for some reason as some mp3s sound fine whilst others sound less good than when at 16bit.



It shouldn't matter.
The only advantage of using 24 bit output with 16 bit files is that digital volume control has less effect on the noise floor. Normally if you turn down the volume digitally, the quantization noise stays constant (-96dB FS for 16 bit). If you first convert it to 24 bit before applying volume control, the quantization noise is lowered by the same amount, up until you hit 48dB of volume control, which won't happen in any case.
In all but extreme cases you won't be able to hear the difference, and it's more purism than actual sound quality improvement.

Reported differences are most likely caused by psychological factors.


----------



## ntsjoberg

Hello all,
   
  I'm a new user who's been lurking and reading valuable advice and reviews around head-fi for quite a long time. Recently I ordered the E17 to go with my laptop/E9/AKG K601s, as a replacement for my Nuforce Icon Mobile which just wasn't "good enough" for my cans. Overall I'm VERY satisfied with this upgrade.
   
  What I'm NOT quite satisfied with is the lack of certain information in the manual. It does not adress the fact that my power-led is flashing red while using it in "USB Charge" mode. I think I've read that it's a low battery indicator though? Also, it does not seem to be charging, despite displaying the charging icon on the display when I use it. I can get it to power up when docked with the E9, when powered by a USB wall charger and of course when it's connected to the laptop through the USB cable but when I try to use it standalone it simply does not turn on and has not done so since I got it.
   
  Of course, I have tried charging it for several hours (the led keeps flashing red while connected) but it simply refuses to turn on unless connected to a power source. And yes, I've tried changing the position of the hold switch and "usb charging" is ON. Will I have to return my new toy (and wait for yet another few weeks before getting a replacement
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) ot have I overlooked something? Firmware problems? Settings? Help would be very appreciated!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ntsjoberg said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm a new user who's been lurking and reading valuable advice and reviews around head-fi for quite a long time. Recently I ordered the E17 to go with my laptop/E9/AKG K601s, as a replacement for my Nuforce Icon Mobile which just wasn't "good enough" for my cans. Overall I'm VERY satisfied with this upgrade.
> 
> ...


 
  I have and never heard of a FLASHING red light. Never saw it on mine or heard of it. CAn you try a different USB cable and wall USB charger apparatus? And also try the reset button up top when it is powered on.
   
  If that doesn't work then _I_ would contact FiiO through head fi or through their site about this. I do not and haven't heard of a red flashing light but that MAY mean that the batttery is defective and isn't taking a charge. The site that sold it to you and the retailer(if it is Amazon or just the retailer or seller if not) should be responsible for this if you got it less than... a set period of time as written in the terms you had to agree to when you bought it. See if they can return and get you a new exchange. FiiO usually recommends this router first as it is the fastest, cheapest and easiest. If you didn't buy from an authorized dealer then what they do is up to them and the site(if they are different). If you did, then you will go through them and they have to serve you. Last resort that FiiO usually doesn't prefer is going through them. It isn't prefered not because its annoying for them as is they are in China and will take much longer and more expensive than a local dealer. *Keep in mind everything about FiiO's policies are based off what they have said previously in this thread and from personal phone contact with their offices and is subject to change and what not by their doing.*


----------



## ntsjoberg

Quote: 





> I have and never heard of a FLASHING red light. Never saw it on mine or heard of it. CAn you try a different USB cable and wall USB charger apparatus? And also try the reset button up top when it is powered on.


 
  Thanks for the help!
   
  Unfortunately I don't own any other USB chargers at the moment. However, I've had the same results with different cables (of course I tried the supplied cable first) and three different computers, not to mention docked in the E9. The reset didn't change anything, unfortunately.
   
  I guess I'll try a few more things and then I'll have to contact whatever seller I got it from. I ordered through Amazon.co.uk (because they were 30% more expensive in Sweden), so not sure exactly which seller was the cheapest, at the moment. I might end up keeping this unit anyways, because it's a hassle sending things overseas, paying for shipping and waiting forever for a replacement. I don't really have a use for it as a battery powered unit anyway.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ntsjoberg said:


> Thanks for the help!
> 
> Unfortunately I don't own any other USB chargers at the moment. However, I've had the same results with different cables (of course I tried the supplied cable first) and three different computers, not to mention docked in the E9. The reset didn't change anything, unfortunately.
> 
> I guess I'll try a few more things and then I'll have to contact whatever seller I got it from. I ordered through Amazon.co.uk (because they were 30% more expensive in Sweden), so not sure exactly which seller was the cheapest, at the moment. I might end up keeping this unit anyways, because it's a hassle sending things overseas, paying for shipping and waiting forever for a replacement. I don't really have a use for it as a battery powered unit anyway.


 
  What I got was that this device ONLY turns on and works when plugged into the E9, or a laptop but won't turn on when there is no external power going to it right? and even when it is plugged in and working, the light is FLASHING red.
   
  What dealer did you get it from. It will tell you on your invoice. Cross check the dealer that sold it with this list:
http://www.fiio.com.cn/where/index.aspx
   
http://www.fiio.com.cn/about/Asissit.aspx?MenuID=020902
  FiiO has an updated Warranty thing and it does if my non existent law skills are serving me right say that it is only applicable if you bought from an authorized agent. There have been some people including me that didn't buy from an authorized agent(my E5) and was still offered direct warranty from FiiO. I do not know when this warranty was updated but if your dealer AND AMAZON.CO.UK will not replace the unit, then contacting FiiO and seeing if their policies of direct warranty or aid to you straight from China (at your expense of shipping) still holds like it did for me a year ago.
   
  I do not know their official policies and can only give advice based off what they have said previously and what their site states. Hope I have been of help.


----------



## ntsjoberg

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What I got was that this device ONLY turns on and works when plugged into the E9, or a laptop but won't turn on when there is no external power going to it right? and even when it is plugged in and working, the light is FLASHING red.
> 
> What dealer did you get it from. It will tell you on your invoice. Cross check the dealer that sold it with this list:
> http://www.fiio.com.cn/where/index.aspx


 
  The E17 works perfectly as long as it's either docked in the E9 or connected to any power source through USB. As long as it's connected I can turn it on and use it. If i disconnect the power source it's completely dead.
   
  The power led, when OFF and connected to a power source, is flashing red. When the unit is ON it's bluish.
   
  This is what my invoice said about the specific seller: "AVShop items (Sold by OPPO Electronics Ltd.)". I'll leave the E17 in the dock overnight and if there's no change tomorrow, and no other answers here, I'll contact them. Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ntsjoberg said:


> The E17 works perfectly as long as it's either docked in the E9 or connected to any power source through USB. As long as it's connected I can turn it on and use it. If i disconnect the power source it's completely dead.
> 
> The power led, when OFF and connected to a power source, is flashing red. When the unit is ON it's bluish.
> 
> This is what my invoice said about the specific seller: "AVShop items (Sold by OPPO Electronics Ltd.)". I'll leave the E17 in the dock overnight and if there's no change tomorrow, and no other answers here, I'll contact them. Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.


 
  Blue and purple when on means it's chargin and is on however in your case it could be "attempting to charge" and on.
   
  Never seen flashing red before, there was not a firmware update so when I had my E17, I doubt it was different.
   
  They don't seem to be an authorized dealer. Amazon ususally is very good with helping consumers like you and could have this resolved ....usually.


----------



## xeroian

I also bought my E17 through amazon.co.uk and it was supplied by Avshop / OPPO.

In my case, and I hope yours too, this was on the "Fulfiiled By Amazon" scheme. This means that Amazon ship it themselves and also manage any returns. 

There are several ways to check. Your shipping email will have come from Amazon and the E17 will have been shipped in Amazon packaging.

Just login to your account, go to my orders and see what the options are.

I am not suggesting Avshop would be unhelpful but Amazon themselves are always so easy to deal with.

Sadly Amazon UK are showing no stock for any supplier at the moment but get your complaint in as soon as you can.

Ian


----------



## ntsjoberg

It was definitely shipped by Amazon, and if AVShop (who seem friendly enough, I emailed them just now) fail to reply, I'll contact them directly. I suppose things will get sorted eventually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I went here to get some expert advice from you guys and that was just what I got. Sadly, I suppose I won't be able to fix this one on my own.
   
  As for the build quality etc. I still feel that Fiio did a great job with the E17. Feels really sturdy and looks lovely with my other desktop equipment. Depending on what I want to listen to, I prefer to use it both with and without the E9, which adds a bit of punch but, to my ears, make things sound just a tiny bit more cramped. I also appreciate the coax-in which I have yet to try out with my CD player but I expect it sound better than whatever dac's in there.


----------



## IKE60

Quote:  
   
  I am only asking because you did not mention it in your first post, but have you tried the reset button?  I've had my E17 for a month now.  Yesterday, it would not turn on (regardless of power source).  I hit the reset button, and everything is good now.
   
  I suggest plugging it into an AC adapter or the E9, hit the reset button, turn it on, and let it charge until the red light extinguishes (assuming it doesn't still give you the flashing issue).
   
  Does the number of bars in the battery indicator increase while it's plugged in?  Is the battery indicator flashing?


----------



## gordec

How does everyone burn in the E11? What connection and volume setting? Does it make any difference? It seems like an urban legend reading through the threads with regards to amp burn ins.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tilpo

gordec said:


> How does everyone burn in the E11? What connection and volume setting? Does it make any difference? It seems like an urban legend reading through the threads with regards to amp burn ins.
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2



Burn in on amps is more legend that anything else. It simply doesn't happen in any audible form.
But if you insist, burn-in is generally done with white or pink noise, or with music. Both payed at high, but not max, listening volume.


----------



## hyogen

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i agree... I can't say I heard any difference after "burn-in" of my E17.  However, I definitely am convinced there is burn-in of headphones and IEMs.


----------



## SilverWolf

Quote: 





gordec said:


> For those who don't want to wait for authorized retailers to replenish their stock. I got mine from houseofdap.com for $140 free shipping. Ordered on 5/23. Got it yesterday. I'm in texas.
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


 
  Hey gordec,
   
  Thanks for the info, and how much time did they took to dispatch your order?


----------



## cholero

Sorry for spamming the thread with a "look at my photos"-post but I've been hoping a long time for a foto of a E17 paired with a Iriver H1x0 bevore I owned the FiiO E17 that I can't hold back to post this two fotos for the case that there is a H1x0 owner thinking if buying tis DAC/amp would be a good descision:
 
  Works perfectly and is somehow portable... 
  I'm very happy with the sound of the Alpen.


----------



## gordec

silverwolf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




10 business days. It looks like they increased their price.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

I was inspired by cholero, so I had to add some portable pics of my own...
   
  Here is the H140 + E17 "stack" in a "360" turnaround, and with a typical pair of phones for portable use:
   
      
   

   
  A pair of Sennheiser HD 202's modded with detachable cable mod for dual mono jacks, and a DIY cable made with some OFC cable with XLPE insulation from BTG Audio, Rean nickel mono plugs, Vintage Audio Lab Rhodium stereo plug. Very fun portable setup.


----------



## SilverWolf

gordec said:


> 10 business days. It looks like they increased their price.
> Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2




Yeah, but still a good price against the $209 on Amazon.

Another question, I can't find anything about my order on my dashboard, is that normal? Thanks for your help btw.


----------



## MrRaiiNMan

Very nice review of the e17. I'm looking forward to trying one when there back in stock on eBay :/


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mrraiinman said:


> Very nice review of the e17. I'm looking forward to trying one when there back in stock on eBay :/


 
  By the time they are back on ebay in full stock, they will also be in BH audio and authorized sellers who will be selling at $140 with free shipping and as a FiiO authorized dealer, can give support and warranty and repairs that others may not fully guarantee.


----------



## MrRaiiNMan

Good to know, thank you for the info.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mrraiinman said:


> Good to know, thank you for the info.


 
  B&H is a great place to buy but keep in mind they are not an authorized dealer of FiiO's. However they are friendly and good enough that they should provide you with help in case you get a screen where like another users has a line going across it.
http://fiio.com.cn/where/index.aspx
   
  Here is the full list of authorized dealers. FiiO also gives a 1 year limited warranty. As of last I checked or asked they gave it for all devices be where it was bought from but they have an updated warranty list that sounds like they may be limiting support and warranty to only devices sold by authorized dealers(something many hifi manufactuers do).
http://fiio.com.cn/about/Asissit.aspx?MenuID=020902
   
  My legal knowledge is small to nill and so I do not know their current policies. However rejoice! Micca store SHOULD be at $140 as well with free shipping! They are an authorized dealer and I had no problems with them nor any other users here.


----------



## SilverWolf

bowei006 said:


> My legal knowledge is small to nill and so I do not know their current policies. However rejoice! Micca store SHOULD be at $140 as well with free shipping! They are an authorized dealer and I had no problems with them nor any other users here.




It's $199


----------



## jjacq

I was on the market for this a few weeks ago but I bought them used for $120 from a seller here on head fi. I do think accessoryjack sells them for around 160 shipped though. Best price you can get for it new...for now.


----------



## The Waddon

Hi. Can I ask for help please!
   
  Have just bought an FiiO E17 and am very happy with the amp when connected via an L9 to my iPhone4.
   
  But am having problems connecting it to my PC running Windows XP. Opt for USB input as required and connect. When I enter Control Panel - Sounds and Audio Devices - the E17 is now happily illustrated as my default playback device. So Properties display is illustrated. Click on Audio. Click on Advanced and opt for headphones output. At that point the E17 display changes from 48k 16bit to 96k 24bit. So far so good. Then try playing a track from Windows Media Mibrary and the E17 display reverts to 48k 16bit immediately.
   
  I cannot see a way to change that setting from the 48k 16bit to 96k 24bit. The PC E17 Properties display shows basic sound, audio and driver details only with no way of making any changes. Have tried this on two separate PC's using Windows XP. Youtube videos show that Windows 7 enables Managing Audio Devices to achieve this change to 96k 24bit. 
   
  Can I effect the change here? I was recommended to use 'foobar' which I have downloaded. However when going to 'preferences and then playback I see no facility to change output settings.
   
  Would be grateful for any advice here!!!


----------



## Tilpo

the waddon said:


> Hi. Can I ask for help please!
> 
> Have just bought an FiiO E17 and am very happy with the amp when connected via an L9 to my iPhone4.
> 
> ...



I think it's because Windows (correctly) recognizes that the source is 16/48 instead of 24/96. You would have to upsample it before passing it through the Windows sound kernel.
In foobar2000, at least in my case, I can go to Preferences -> Playback -> Output and select 24-bit for "output format". 
The 96kHz sampling rate is achieved by running the signal through an upsampler DSP. Preferences -> Playback -> DSP Manager. Then add the Resampler (PPHS) plugin, which should come with standard installation of foobar2000. Click "Configure Selected" and set sampling rate to 96000


----------



## The Waddon

Tilpo - Thank you!!!
   
  I followed your instructions to the letter and all came good.
   
  Thus I am now listening to the 96k 24 bit splendid track of 'Me and Bobby Mcghee' from Janis Joplin's Big Brother and the Holding Company's CD's.
   
  Such a rich and wonderful experience.
   
  Thank you again.
   
  Peter


----------



## bwong247

Is this Amp good enough for the AKG  Q 701 quincy adams? to bring out close to max potentials of it?


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What Camera and settings did you use?
> 
> Photoshop? Because it seems like the E17 has a chocolate brown tint that is pairing VERY nicely with the IE80's


 
   
  Canon G11. Setting "P" mode, ISO 100, F2.8 (auto), shutter speed 1 second (auto) and macro. Slightly dim light. No photoshop/software editing. The chocolate brown tint is probably the reflection from my brown desk.


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Nice... great set-up and picture. I have always been nervous about getting expensive in-ear phones, how resilient are those?


 
   
  If you are asking about the IE80 cable, the cable is quite soft, comfortable and well made. Some people reported that the cable will harden at low temperature (below 0 fahrenheit). However, that happens to most cables.


----------



## bowei006

bwong247 said:


> Is this Amp good enough for the AKG  Q 701 quincy adams? to bring out close to max potentials of it?




No. It is a good portable amp for it if ypu want to use it with it but no. If you want the E17 for portability and what not and then want to use it with the 701. Sure! It drives it well and is musical and fun. However many use $600 equipment with the 701. So yes this amp is good enough, if you want to multi task the features but close to max? No.


----------



## schuh

bowei006 said:


> No. It is a good portable amp for it if ypu want to use it with it but no. If you want the E17 for portability and what not and then want to use it with the 701. Sure! It drives it well and is musical and fun. However many use $600 equipment with the 701. So yes this amp is good enough, if you want to multi task the features but close to max? No.




I have been enjoying my K702s in my desktop setup with the E17. I've been surprised how well the Fiio drives them.

Question: how much better do your AKGs sound through the O2 or whatever other amp you are using?


----------



## bowei006

I will be receiving the O2 tomorrow. 

I am using them with the Audi Gd nfb 12.1. I was not able to make a direct comparison of the E17 to the nfb so i am going off memory. The E17 is warmer, less transparent, not as accurate and more musical and fun. I will say that it is likr tht as it is more universal and caters to first timers as well.

Some may not be able to justify paying an extra $140 for something like this, but as we are on head fi. It happens. The E17 works well and if thats all you have then thats fine as well. It costs more an more money to get better sound.

My poor wallet guys


----------



## schuh

I am interested in your thoughts about the E17 vs the O2 when paired with the AKGs. The O2 is quite attractive at its price.


----------



## bowei006

I got it to test out and for fun since I got it at a very very attractive price new so its all fine.
It will take a month before I will say anything about the threee though. I will be going on a slight outdoors vacation next week and then I need adequate time to hear and do all that stuff I do 

That MS2 and WA6 set of yours is no lightweight either!! I am also looking at tubes and the WA6 was recommended for headphones I am interested in(for a long time) wont say what it is though as it will make me feel obligated!!


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> I will be receiving the O2 tomorrow.
> I am using them with the Audi Gd nfb 12.1. I was not able to make a direct comparison of the E17 to the nfb so i am going off memory. The E17 is warmer, less transparent, not as accurate and more musical and fun. I will say that it is likr tht as it is more universal and caters to first timers as well.
> Some may not be able to justify paying an extra $140 for something like this, but as we are on head fi. It happens. The E17 works well and if thats all you have then thats fine as well. It costs more an more money to get better sound.
> My poor wallet guys



By most people's standard your stuff is entry level. 
You're not allowed to complain about cost just yet!


----------



## bowei006

^Oh you 

The higher end audiophiles will call it entry. Bu in all truthefullness its mid.... High level and summit level are larger and is a magnifiably larger in terms of price.

My levels:
Entry:$10-$130
Mid:$130-$300
High:$300-$1000
Summit:$1000-infinity


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> ^Oh you
> The higher end audiophiles will call it entry. Bu in all truthefullness its mid.... High level and summit level are larger and is a magnifiably larger in terms of price.
> My levels:
> Entry:$10-$130
> ...



If you just count the headphones, then that sounds about right. Expenditure for entire rig would be something along the following lines:

Entry: $50 - $200
Mid: $200 - $500
High: $500 - $2,000
Very high: $2,000 - 10,000
Summit: $10,000+

This includes speaker rigs, for your information. And even within speaker rigs you can spend 100K and still have room for improvement.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> If you just count the headphones, then that sounds about right. Expenditure for entire rig would be something along the following lines:
> Entry: $50 - $200
> Mid: $200 - $500
> High: $500 - $2,000
> ...


 
  I only did cost of amp and DAC or either. The cost shoots up exponentially after you past mid usually :/ .
   
  I see you included a very high. Some and I don't do that but it does fit.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> I only did cost of amp and DAC or either. The cost shoots up exponentially after you past mid usually :/ .
> 
> I see you included a very high. Some and I don't do that but it does fit.



The thing is, there is definitely a category in between the audiophiles that have several tens of grands as their budget, and the ones who have a very high-end system, but still definitely less than 10 grand worth of stuff. With headphones I think summit-fi occurs at about $5,000, since at that point spending more money will yield into hardly any returns at all. But with speakers this point is achieved much later. (although 10K can still definitely get you a VERY kickass system)


----------



## gordec

Anyone here tried E7 or ibasso dzero? I know that the E17 has better power but I really enjoy the depth of sound stage of my E11. I'm trying to decide to keep E11 our the E17. My headphones are Denon D2000 and UE Tf10, so they are easily powered by any of the above 4 amps. My question is whether E7 or dzero have comparable sound stage depth as E11. I prefer a dac/amp combo. If no, I'll probably just keep E17 for it's versatility.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I will be receiving the O2 tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Did you like the nfb 12.1 more of the e17 more?


----------



## bowei006

Of course I do. It isnt as fun as the E17 which is a bit more colored and musical . Tere are many aspects of the E17 I miss though  like portability and what not. Thats behind now though.

Ill still need more hours on it


----------



## wje

I'm receiving alerts that the FiiO E17 Alpen is now arriving back in stock.  $139.00 + shipping.  The day of the $210.00 prices on Amazon is ... OVER !!


----------



## schuh

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That MS2 and WA6 set of yours is no lightweight either!! I am also looking at tubes and the WA6 was recommended for headphones I am interested in(for a long time) wont say what it is though as it will make me feel obligated!!


 
   
  I love my WA6 with the Grados.  That's my prime headphone station.  Being an old guitar player who loves Fender Tweed amps, I have had a great deal of fun rolling tubes through that amp.  However I never liked it with my K702s.  It was fine for acoustic, classical and chamber jazz, but was severely lacking with rock. It just doesn't have enough power for the AKGs.  I may get hanged for this, but I enjoy the AKGs more with my E17.  That amp has really surprised me.  I'm not saying it's the end of my search for an amp that pairs well with the K702s, but it drives them quite well.  I also like the way the DAC sounds when playing my Apple lossless files through my Marantz 1060.  I think the E17 is a great product.


----------



## beaver316

Just wanted to mention that i finally got my Fiio L9 LOD. Hooked it up to my iPod nano 2g and this sounds awesome. Really surprised how good the dac in the iPod is.


----------



## bowei006

The iPod nano if I remember uses a decent Wolfson. Just being Wolfson doesnt mean awesome but Apple implemented it well and got a decent DAC. Current gen ones use good Cirrus Logics.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The iPod nano if I remember uses a decent Wolfson. Just being Wolfson doesnt mean awesome but Apple implemented it well and got a decent DAC. Current gen ones use good Cirrus Logics.


 
   
  The surprising thing is that the iPod nano 2g got mediocre reviews all round in terms of sound quality. I guess it was the amp and internal jack circuitry that was holding the player back. Hardly surprising considering how thin it is (around 4mm). But that's where the E17 comes to the rescue  It really looks nice paired with the Nano. I'll get some pics up this weekend.


----------



## bowei006

I have a 2G. Are you talking about non audiophile site reviews of it and its sound? If so then disregard those sites. They dont know what to listen for or tell. Audiophile sites do.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> I have a 2G. Are you talking about non audiophile site reviews of it and its sound? If so then disregard those sites. They dont know what to listen for or tell. Audiophile sites do.



Audiophile sites may very well be subject to bias. Wouldn't be the first time audiophile reviewers give something a bad rating just 'cos it's cheap.

Most likely if SQ is not that good then it is indeed the amp. With many headphones it may simply fail to supply sufficient power. I'd be more surprised if people claim it sounds bad when used as a source component.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





> *Rikkun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Audiophile sites may very well be subject to bias. Wouldn't be the first time audiophile reviewers give something a bad rating just 'cos it's cheap.
> Most likely if SQ is not that good then it is indeed the amp. With many headphones it may simply fail to supply sufficient power. I'd be more surprised if people claim it sounds bad when used as a source component.


 
  They wouldn't of course and I stood there for about 5 minutes typing the above post on my phone this morning thinking if I should post that and look like an idiot to other head fi'ers that know that or just say it to not let others get discouraged but tech sites that don't know about audio.
   
  But yes, I see too many normal tech sites and while they are computer enthusiasts don't know crap about audio do "audio" reviews. You see them say stuff like "this bass is super crisp" and blah blah and it is really [size=medium]ಠ_ರೃ​[/size]
   
  But yeah, those sites will have bias but, you can still learn from them.


----------



## beaver316

bowei006 said:


> I have a 2G. Are you talking about non audiophile site reviews of it and its sound? If so then disregard those sites. They dont know what to listen for or tell. Audiophile sites do.




Yeah it was mostly non-audiophile sites. Honestly I had no other choices, reviews are so rare for this iPod.


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





yungyaw said:


> Not sure if this has been posted before, but could this be one of the way we can connect our iDevices (iPhone, iPad, iPod) to FiiO E17?
> 
> 
> Matrix 24 bit 96 KHz USB to Coaxial Converter
> ...


 
  I received mine this morning. Bought using eBay and shipping time only two weeks from China to the UK.
   
  And it sounds sublime. Can finally play 24bit 96KHz FLAC files using Flacplayer on my iPad3. I just hope iOS6 doesn't screw things up in the autumn (fall).


----------



## CharliyuAndCo

Does anyone know if AccessoryJack is reputable and sells the real Fiio E17?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





charliyuandco said:


> Does anyone know if AccessoryJack is reputable and sells the real Fiio E17?


 
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3405#post_8386521
   
  It seems fine but I am only providing you with my research and analysis. Whatever you choose is up to you.
   
   
  Quote bowei006: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## senson

Quote: 





charliyuandco said:


> Does anyone know if AccessoryJack is reputable and sells the real Fiio E17?


 
   I'm pretty sure HiFiMAN still has them in stock they are also Fiio authorized dealer.
  [size=12pt]http://www.head-direct.com[/size]


----------



## finchouse

HiFiMAN has them, mine just shipped out from them today.


----------



## whatsthatringingsound

finchouse said:


> HiFiMAN has them, mine just shipped out from them today.



 
 Oh cool! How were you notified?


----------



## lubczyk

Okay, this fairs well with low-impedance full-size headphones, but how will the E17 cope with even more sensitive IEMs? Like the Audio Technica ATH-CKS77. Will using the E17 with these headphones introduce clipping or hiss?


----------



## IKE60

lubczyk said:


> Okay, this fairs well with low-impedance full-size headphones, but how will the E17 cope with even more sensitive IEMs? Like the Audio Technica ATH-CKS77. Will using the E17 with these headphones introduce clipping or hiss?



I've used my Shure SE215 IEMs with the E-17 with no problem, but they are 20 Ω.

Per FiiO website, E17 headphone range is 16 Ω to 300 Ω, and at 16 Ω, power output is 250mW.

Per Audio-Technica website, ATH-CKS77 are 14 Ω with max power input of 100 mW.

Looks to me like you should NOT drive your IEMs with the E17.


----------



## beaver316

I have the Senn IE80 which is rated at 16 Ω and i get no hiss at all on low gain.


----------



## Toorc

My Brainwavz M1 sounds great with the E17.
  No hiss at all.
   
  PS:  Greetings all! This is my first post on Head-fi ...
         Though going through this forum for the last 2 months and turning me in to this hobby slowly


----------



## bowei006

toorc said:


> My Brainwavz M1 sounds great with the E17.
> No hiss at all.
> 
> PS:  Greetings all! This is my first post on Head-fi ...
> Though going through this forum for the last 2 months and turning me in to this hobby slowly




"Welcome to Head Fi! Sorry About your wallet!"
Ill make a welcoming post just cause.


----------



## Toorc

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Head Fi! Sorry About your wallet!"
> Ill make a welcoming post just cause.


 
  Thanx xD ... "The Wallet Thing" is so true lolz.


----------



## Tilpo

toorc said:


> Thanx xD ... "The Wallet Thing" is so true lolz.



Trust me.
We are rather effective in brainwashing you into thinking you need more gear than you actually do in reality, and we are masters of doubling or even tripling your initial budget.
One needs a strong mind to survive around this place.


----------



## bowei006

If I wasnt on my phone. I would upvote Rikkuns post. But my phone wont let me.


----------



## beaver316

Hey guys, i have a few questions for those who own both the E17 and the iPod 5.5 (or 5) G.
   
  As i mentioned before i have the iPod Nano 2g and i mentioned how i loved the sound from it when connected to the E17 with an LOD. However after further listening and careful comparisons, i have come to the conclusion that the dac in the iPod 2g is not as good as the one in the E17 (not unexpected really). I tested by first listening to a song on my computer with the E17 through usb mode, then listening to the same song with the iPod connected with LOD. First case utilizes the E17 dac, second case the iPod dac. 
   
  It seems that the E17 dac has better transparency and just feels more musical and energetic. It's much more enjoyable to me. Now knowing me, im going to want to go out and solve this problem and my immediate thoughts went to the iPod 5.5g because of all the praise it gets. 
   
  Can anyone post their thoughts on the differences between the E17 dac and the Ipod 5.5g dac?


----------



## Toorc

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Trust me.
> We are rather effective in brainwashing you into thinking you need more gear than you actually do in reality, and we are masters of doubling or even tripling your initial budget.
> One needs a strong mind to survive around this place.


 

 This forum already did!
  I wanted to have a decent can at the beginning. I had a (bad!?) habit of doing some research on different forums before i buy something. My budget was like $50 for the can. After some browsing i came to know about the amps. Then made a decision to buy E5. The next day got the idea about dac. Then i finalized my buying list in which there was the E7.
  AND ... what i bought?
*---- E17* ----
  I am having this setup (M1 + E17) for less than a month. Grado sr60i will come on 21st of this month, and planning to buy SRH840 .. i think i have already lost my mind.


----------



## MattTCG

I read through this thread but need a few points of clarification. I have an Schitt amp and want to try the e17 as just a dac.  I ordered the l7 doc already and have a somewhat decent 3.5 to rca cable. My questions. 
   
  1. How is the e17 properly set to be dac only?
   
  2. I think that the "lo bypass" switch has to be set but not sure.
   
  3. When setup as dac only, do I loose control of the hardware EQ?
   
   
  thanks....


----------



## vegeto626

Guys, its back in stock at amazon for $139 + $5 shipping!! Sold by Head-Direct/HiFiMan


----------



## JosephKim

And on mp4nation you get free brainwavz beta and free shipping


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I read through this thread but need a few points of clarification. I have an Schitt amp and want to try the e17 as just a dac.  I ordered the l7 doc already and have a somewhat decent 3.5 to rca cable. My questions.
> 
> 1. How is the e17 properly set to be dac only?
> 
> ...


 
  I'm doing exactly that but with an EF-5.
   
  To use only the DAC section you have to set the lo bypass downwards so the little dot is close to the text "LO BYPASS". 
   
  You lose control of EQ settings on the E17 and you control volume through your amp.


----------



## elykrab17

Awesome review and comments on the e17... definitely set my mind sure on buying one!


----------



## finchouse

Quote: 





whatsthatringingsound said:


> Oh cool! How were you notified?


 
  I got a ship confirmation email. They're supposed to arrive today, will post impressions once I've had a listen.


----------



## ninjames

How is this as just a DAC? I just bought a Little Dot MKIII amp and then a Muse DAC for like $40 from ebay just because I was short on cash ... then this E17 came on sale so I bought it just because I needed a portable amp anyway. Can I just use it as a DAC with the Little Dot MKIII? Does it function well in that capacity, and do you think it would be better than the Muse I bought? And of course, better than just running my MKIII out of my laptop? There's an awful lot of posts to sift through here..!
   
  EDIT: Looking back over some posts, I would need to buy the L7 to make this work? I don't want to double up on amps. The L7 would require me to use a 3.5mm to RCA to connect to my MKIII, right? Laptop USB - E17 - L7 w/ 3.5mm to RCA - MKIII input - awesome headphones.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





ninjames said:


> How is this as just a DAC? I just bought a Little Dot MKIII amp and then a Muse DAC for like $40 from ebay just because I was short on cash ... then this E17 came on sale so I bought it just because I needed a portable amp anyway. Can I just use it as a DAC with the Little Dot MKIII? Does it function well in that capacity, and do you think it would be better than the Muse I bought? And of course, better than just running my MKIII out of my laptop? There's an awful lot of posts to sift through here..!
> 
> *EDIT: Looking back over some posts, I would need to buy the L7 to make this work? I don't want to double up on amps. The L7 would require me to use a 3.5mm to RCA to connect to my MKIII, right? Laptop USB - E17 - L7 w/ 3.5mm to RCA - MKIII input - awesome headphones.*


 
   
  Yes, you would need the L7 and to set the low bypass switch. I owned the e17 several months ago but never used it only a dac. I just bought another and plan to use it as a stand alone dac at least some of the time. 
   
  I should have it tomorrow and will let you know.


----------



## ninjames

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Yes, you would need the L7 and to set the low bypass switch. I owned the e17 several months ago but never used it only a dac. I just bought another and plan to use it as a stand alone dac at least some of the time.
> 
> I should have it tomorrow and will let you know.


 
  Cool. Are those the cords I'd need? I just wasn't exactly sure how it connects. Do you lose anything by going 3.5mm to RCA?


----------



## MattTCG

No not really. Just don't use a cheap 3.5 to rca...something decent.


----------



## jono454

i've been using these cables from monoprice and they work pretty well but to be fair i've only used these monoprice cables and temporary cables i got from bestbuy that cost roughly $30+ with no difference in SQ.
   
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5597&seq=1&format=2
   
  Can't really go wrong for something less than $5 and many users on head-fi definitely recommend monoprice.


----------



## finchouse

E17 FIRST IMPRESSIONS (after 30min)
   
  I'm an audiophile noob, and this is my firs dac/amp combo. I'm currently running them: windows7 -> foobar -> wasapi -> e17 -> d5000
  the biggest changes I noticed right away (vs using just the computer 3.5mm out) are:
  - bass is tighter. drums sound like real drums inside my ears.
  - no sibilance on the highs. at the moment I'm really digging florence + the machine, and on some of her songs at louder listening levels I used to get a bit of harshness. that's all gone. will update as I listen more.


----------



## JosephKim

Dang the price went up by $20 overnight lol


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





finchouse said:


> E17 FIRST IMPRESSIONS (after 30min)
> 
> I'm an audiophile noob, and this is my firs dac/amp combo. I'm currently running them: windows7 -> foobar -> wasapi -> e17 -> d5000
> the biggest changes I noticed right away (vs using just the computer 3.5mm out) are:
> ...


 
   
  For me with the d5k, +2 bass and -2 treble=perfect!!


----------



## Angelopsaro

Guys, how can a device like e17 which costs $140 or even the e7 which costs half of that has better components from lets say Cowon J3 which costs $240?
  The Dac/amps have less costs for the screen and the lack of trademarks like bluetooth and micro sd but still they have to build a device. Its not that you buy only the amplifier chip.
  Is it the size?


----------



## boopyman

Wow, I had been watching the E17 on Amazon for a while for price updates and to see if they had a stock of them. Then, I missed the immense price cut two days ago !
   
  Thankfully, I wasn't so slow this time and just bought one for $140, which seems like a really, really low price !


----------



## Darkblade48

Quote: 





boopyman said:


> Wow, I had been watching the E17 on Amazon for a while for price updates and to see if they had a stock of them. Then, I missed the immense price cut two days ago !
> 
> Thankfully, I wasn't so slow this time and just bought one for $140, which seems like a really, really low price !


 

 Well, $140 was the original price.


----------



## boopyman

Well, I'd only spotted it online for approximatively $200, so even if $140 is the original price, I feel I'm saving money


----------



## MattTCG

E17 back at $139....
   
http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E17-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0070UFMOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340207772&sr=8-1&keywords=e17


----------



## bowei006

angelopsaro said:


> Guys, how can a device like e17 which costs $140 or even the e7 which costs half of that has better components from lets say Cowon J3 which costs $240?
> The Dac/amps have less costs for the screen and the lack of trademarks like bluetooth and micro sd but still they have to build a device. Its not that you buy only the amplifier chip.
> Is it the size?




As the cowons you are talking about are DAPs it changes a lot. They need to first spend tons on hiring people and companies to do world wide marketing(Fiio is for a more niche market and gets free advertising... This thread basically is free advertising), that costs a lot of money, next as it is a dap, you need to make it perform well. Meaning non buggy and has to work and feel well. They need to extensively bug test it and do tests to hope that consumers like the devices ui and feel. Then theres the gui itself. Cowon uses a "next gen" gui on some devices that has a windows phone or android look to it. This takes longer and more money to "build" and get right, its more complex. And then you need engineers to grt all the components correctly and make it efficent and then audio engineers to make sure the circuitry is good so that it wont have audio problems thatcan be avoided(cowons do have an audiophile base target) and other things. Its much easier for Fiio. Also fiio is chinese and cowon is from the RoK(s. korea) so its also a bit easier for fiio to manu and get parts.


----------



## finchouse

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> For me with the d5k, +2 bass and -2 treble=perfect!!


 
  what gain setting are you using?


----------



## MattTCG

No gain for d5k and +12 for the he400...


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> No gain for d5k and +12 for the he400...


 
   
  If I buy he400, will E17 drive them to fullest?
   
  out here on head-fi...he400 always get 9 out of 10 rating..want them..but do not want to invest on an Amp again..


----------



## ninjames

Really satisfied using the E17 as a DAC! Can't wait until my HE-400 to come in. I haven't even tested it as an amp yet though. Mostly because my Little Dot MKIII JUST got here. But I will soonish. Happy with the L7 connector. I wish it were a little bit less cheaply-made, but it's not like it's under constant scrutiny or anything.


----------



## MattTCG

The e17 will drive the he400 quite well...to it's fullest? No. But it will sound very good. There is still some headroom with the he400 as it scales pretty well with better equipment.
   
  gL!!


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow! my gain, bass and treble are at 0 on the E17 for the HE400 and the highest I push the volume to is about 53.
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> No gain for d5k and +12 for the he400...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Wow! my gain, bass and treble are at 0 on the E17 for the HE400 and the highest I really push the volume to is about 53.


 
   
  Well, on +12 I never go above about 30-32. So the volume is likely pretty similar.


----------



## Jack C

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> E17 back at $139....
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E17-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0070UFMOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340207772&sr=8-1&keywords=e17


 
   
  For those in the US looking for a FiiO E17, I've updated the US availability thread under the FiiO sub forum here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/591410/us-availability-for-fiio-e17/135#post_8472141
   
  Jack


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jack c said:


> For those in the US looking for a FiiO E17, I've updated the US availability thread under the FiiO sub forum here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/591410/us-availability-for-fiio-e17/135#post_8472141
> 
> Jack


 
  It would be nice to also sell a standalone E17 so you can include it in the regular E17 amazon page. Because everything on the page right now is $200 new.


----------



## talisman42

Their website has a driver download FiiO E17 ASIO driver betaV01 posted today. Not sure what it does yet - but will hopefully find out shortly


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





talisman42 said:


> Their website has a driver download FiiO E17 ASIO driver betaV01 posted today. Not sure what it does yet - but will hopefully find out shortly


 
  Maybe to smooth out issues with ASIO? I don't use ASIO so I wouldn't know


----------



## JamesFiiO

The address of the ASIO driver http://www.fiio.com.cn/support/download.aspx, plz go to the last page to find the driver and download it. and welcome to feedback any bugs to us by market@fiio.com.cn


----------



## Rayzilla

I just wanted to say that I would not hesitate to buy another Fiio product again.  The ALPEN was my first Fiio purchase.  I recently had problem with my ALPEN and I had it replaced without any hassle at all.  PM responses from feiao on here, and email and telephone responses from their authorized dealer were prompt and professional.
   
  They back their products and support the customer very well and that makes me a happy customer.
   
  Thanks guys (at Fiio) !


----------



## AFRO insomniac

How can I connect the E17 to my HDTV?
   
  I have a panasonic plasma (http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIERA-TC-P42ST30-42-Inch-Plasma/dp/B004M8SBPW) that has a "Digital audio output: 1 (optical)".
   
  Can I connect the E17 using a M/M toslink cable like this one?
   
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2
   
  It would be nice to connect my headphones directly to my HDTV and use the E17 for volume controls.
   
  I appreciate the help.


----------



## MattTCG

You should be able to connect via toslink cable but not sure you'd want to. The sound would be output through the tv speakers or possibly passed through to a receiver. 
   
  What are you after here?


----------



## thanksalot

Just got the E17 yesterday and I must say that the E17 has turned my Audio Technica 900X into a bass pumping headphone. I would highly recommend the E17 to anyone who thinks that their headphones need more bass. The extra power definitely helps but the EQ adds more bass without distortion not like the Iphone crappy EQ. Thank you to Fiio for such a great product at a reasonable price.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> You should be able to connect via toslink cable but not sure you'd want to. The sound would be output through the tv speakers or possibly passed through to a receiver.
> 
> What are you after here?


 
  Thanks for replying.
   
  What I really would like to do is listen to audio from the television (as a source) using my headphones.
   
  My TV does not have a headphone jack so at the moment I cannot connect headphones unless I ues the optical out.
   
  Will the E17 allow me to connect my heaphones to my tv (via): TV optical out-> toslink cable -> E17 -> headphones or will I need a reciever to feed the audio through?
   
  Thanks again for the help.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

It would be really nice to be able to connect all of devices to my TV (Blu-ray player, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii) and use the E17 to feed the audio source to my headphones.   I don't know if this is possible though and I currently do not have a reciever.


----------



## bowei006

@afro
All you need is a toslink optical cable from tv optical out to E17. And yea for your second post, you can if your tv has it just plug all those devices into the TV and use input to switch around and... Your tv will send the signal to optical out(you may need to select it)


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @afro
> All you need is a toslink optical cable from tv optical out to E17. And yea for your second post, you can if your tv has it just plug all those devices into the TV and use input to switch around and... Your tv will send the signal to optical out(you may need to select it)


 
  So this cable should work ok then?
   
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2
   
  I've never used these types of cables so I'm really unsure what toslink/miniplug/etc cables are.  Male/male toslink should work I think?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> So this cable should work ok then?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2
> 
> I've never used these types of cables so I'm really unsure what toslink/miniplug/etc cables are.  Male/male toslink should work I think?


 

   
  Does the optical output on yout TV look like this? If so then yes, that sort of cable will do, the E17 however only receives and needs a mini toslink adapter

  your E17 unit should have come with one of these adapters, all you need is that cable if your TV has the output above and you plug the adapter into the other end and then into the E17.
   
  Please keep in mind that for this purpose, I actually don't recommend that cable. I have it. It is VERY THICK and is meant for FULL A/V speaker setups. It is so thick and heavy that it is not very manuverable and actually can twsit can swing the E17 around due to the weight. Get a normal thin cable or a slightly meatier thin cable. Their won't be a difference in sound quality. There are things like how good the fiber insde is, the frequency and all that but at such a sub $20 price for a cable...and even getting thousand dollar ones, it's very hard to hear the sound quality difference, order from a well received company


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Wow, thank you very much for all of this information.
   
  I believe my TV looks like the first picture you posted (I'll double check when I get home from work later)
   
  Thanks for the cable recommendation too! (I'll definitely get a thin cable version). 
   
  This is extremely helpful information and exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Wow, thank you very much for all of this information.
> 
> I believe my TV looks like the first picture you posted (I'll double check when I get home from work later)
> 
> ...


 
  If your TV has regular RCA and HDMI inputs and your blu ray player and xbox and wii are all connected to those ports, then there should also be a "variable input" switch that allows you to switch between them right? Doing that, you don't need a receiver, you could really then just switch inputs and have the audio pass from the TV into E17, which is what I suspect it should do (normally).
   
  The Xbox360 and I believe PS3 support S/PDIF out but if you can do it through TV, then it should be easier on you.
   
  Just make sure not to buy from a SUPER DUPER cheap ebay or amazon retailer that has shoddy pictures, there could be problems. A $8 optical cable should do. Also make sure you have that mini toslink adapter  , if not, order one from monoprie as well.
   
  Thin ones bend easier and can damage the cable's fiber optic wiring which is why the "fancy" one was super thick but the thickness of the monoprice one is wway too extreme for the E17 and headphone audio. I currently use it with my desktop unit and it works very well, but it is not manuverable and swung my E17 around. 
   
  ALWAYS cap the optical cable when not in use. Every dust particle will affect the cable's sound...ok I am exxagerating but dust and oil residue form fingers are a big no no! Don't touch the lens or anything. Always cap it and do it slowly and well when you are removing and plugging in the E17.......see the dillema now? Many people have static(non moving) TV and home entertainment setups as removing and constant plugging of optical cables really isn't good and over time...is actually pretty bad since ....it's very hard not to touch it(I have). You don't need to buy another E17 or a desktop unit, but just saying to be careful, if you come in very oily one day and get a big swipe on the optical cable....well....you might have some problems sonically. It is a cheap cable but shipping is the part that matters


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Yes, each unit is connected to a separate HDMI port/RCA input port and I switch between input channels using the TV remote.
   
  Yep, that is exactly what I'd like to do (switch input channels but keep the E17 + headphones docked to the TV). It's been a pain to separately connect the headphones back and forth to each device manually... It will be awesome to pass audio straight through the TV and just switch inputs. 
   
  That is good to know, didn't know I had to cap the cable end or that the cable lens was fragile.
   
  Yeah that's funny you are exactly right about the costs. The cables are pretty cheap but the shipping really raises the price a bit. I'll probably order a couple of extra cables in case I accidentally damage one.
   
  Thanks again for all the help. Really didn't know anything about these types of cables so I really appreciate the information.
   
  So on top of using the E17 as a portable DAC/AMP and my laptop DAC, I can also use it as a headphone connector/control for my television. Awesome!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Yes, each unit is connected to a separate HDMI port/RCA input port and I switch between input channels using the TV remote.
> 
> Yep, that is exactly what I'd like to do (switch input channels but keep the E17 + headphones docked to the TV). It's been a pain to separately connect the headphones back and forth to each device manually... It will be awesome to pass audio straight through the TV and just switch inputs.
> 
> ...


 
  USusually audio SHOULD pass through the TV so the optical out should pass all audio through that....usually.
   
  The lens isn't super fragile. It's that getting residue on it will hamper the sound quality as optical toslink.......uses optics to transfer data and thus smudges can affect it a lot. I have had a user report that his lens fell out...if that happens STOP using immidately and order a replacement. IT probably won't damage your device but having glass stuck in an mini toslink input isn't good.
   
  Shipping raises it but I was mainly talking about waiting a week........the agony
   
  I usually just use generic words but for people that want to learn like you, I start using and typing all the long terms like mini toslink and I gnerally provide pictures to help.
   
  Don't say awesome just yet, when using those devices, audio usually passes through your TV speakers right? If so then passing through E17 through the TV's own S/PDIF output should be good!
   
  Just want you to note, that Coaxil can also be used and from whta I remember it has a few sonic quirks of it's own(was it more noise? I forgot) but it is durable and you won't have to worry about carefully unplugging..and the E17 suports it..


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Yeah waiting for the shipping can be a pain (to be honest, I'm actually waiting for my E17 to come in the mail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
   
  Yes, the audio passes through the TV speakers so I think it will work.
   
  Those pictures help a ton.  I actually tried to google around for an answer with no luck so I decided to ask in this thread. Glad I did. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Interesting, hmmm so a coaxial cable wold work as well?
   
  I might buy a couple of both cables to test the clarity of each and which I prefer.  If the coaxial sounds just as good I might lean towards that if the durability/fragility risk is a little better.
   
  Do you have any particular preference between the two?
   
  If you don't know it's all good, you've helped me a ton already lol


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Yeah waiting for the shipping can be a pain (to be honest, I'm actually waiting for my E17 to come in the mail
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have no preference, the chance of you telling a difference is close to nill. It takes prolonged listening tests that are hopefully completely blind and even then, changing song and other variable conditions often throw the results. Try coaxil if you would like, it's a lot lower maintenance.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Alright good stuff. This saves me a lot of time/research.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Alright good stuff. This saves me a lot of time/research.


 
  There will be people that go and say this and that, but at the level of really anything sub $600 for headphones...... you don't need to spend a whole lot and the quirks of coaxil vs optical don't need to be worred about. Here:
   
   


> [size=8pt] Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Optical digital is more common - some equipment has more optical digital than coaxial digital inputs, and other equipment does not have any coaxial digital inputs at all.[/size]
> 
> Advantages of coaxial
> [size=8pt] sturdier cables and connectors
> ...


 
  Well to give it to you easy, coaxil can be interfered by other electronics nearby and thus cause noise or a hum noise like it says but is very sturdy and easy and low maintenance, optical would not have the buzz problem IF IT EVEN OCCURS (in your setup and cable you buy, it differs) but you have to be careful with optical...it's not expesnive but shipping is a pain and can affect sound quality if you smudge the lens.
   
  (I read this a long time ago, good refresher!  )
  If buying both a coaxil and optical is cheap, then try both and use one (and maybe return the other). Most people have coaxil cables in their home already so look around! You are looking for a differnet kind though, a "digital coaxil cable"
  it looks like this
   

   
  Many have it, most don't know they have it.
   
  You can tthen try which cable works best with your setup. I have heard of and have used coaxil cables with good shielding and one's that didn't...this was of course before my stint in audio so I can't tell you how it went accurately... I don't remember how it sounded and even if I did. I didn't know about "sound" back then.
   
*In short: See if you can get both an optical toslink cable and a digital coaxil cable (with good shielding). Try them with your setup and E17 and see if you hear noise over coaxil or a buzz. You can also try a sq test, but 99%(napkin numbers) of the time at this price range and "learning" about what to listen for, it's all placebo and psychiotic. If you can't hear buzz with coaxil and you honestly can't tell a difference with optical toslink. Coaxil is fine.*
   
   
  here's what it will look like:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/2760#post_8300499


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Looking at that picture I think I do have that cable lying around the house, that is hilairious. I believe I picked one up for a dollar at Circuit City during their going out of business sale, now I actually know what it is for! Those pictures are great, now I know exactly what to look for. Yeah I'll test for the buzzing sound and like you said I'll get a couple of both cables and experiment with the sound. Thanks for the bulletpoint summary.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Looking at that picture I think I do have that cable lying around the house, that is hilairious. I believe I picked one up for a dollar at Circuit City during their going out of business sale, now I actually know what it is for! Those pictures are great, now I know exactly what to look for. Yeah I'll test for the buzzing sound and like you said I'll get a couple of both cables and experiment with the sound. Thanks for the bulletpoint summary.


 
*Don't mistake it for an component RCA cable! They look very very very similar and the more "pro" versions almost look identical! Pro RCA cables and digital coaxil ones LOOK VERY SIMILAR. Except RCA is analog and Digital Coaxil......is unsuprisingly digital! >_< why is this? They both use the RCA connector standard......... regular component RCA cables are easy as they are colored and weak looking.....the more "pro" ones that are component look almost the same!*
   
*here's a pro component RCA cable:*(the word pro is what consumers added for it, most pro cables at best buy aren't professoinal)

   
  Here's the digital coaxil RCA connected:



   
   
  Tip: Keep in mind thickness and weight..if you are able too. The E17 can again be swung around or if the cable drops to the ground....SEND your E17 flying to the ground as well. Happened to me a few times...except it fell into the crease on my desk(two desks conected to each other) that the cable was poking through and thus didn't fall to the ground. Putting pressure on the S/PDIF jack with a "hanging" cable is also not a good idea so I always leave some room on the desk for the cable to lay on(my "fancy" MP optical one) so that it doesn't create too much tension on my S/PDIF port on my current desktop unit.
   
   
  Use:
   

 Composite analog video Composite Yellow   Analog audio​ Left/Mono (record if 4 connector tape cable) White    Right (record if 4 connector tape cable) Red    Left tape play if 4 connector tape cable Black    Right tape play if 4 connector tape cable Yellow    Center Green    Left surround Blue    Right surround Gray    Left back surround Brown    Right back surround Tan    Subwoofer Purple    Digital audio S/PDIF Orange   Component analog video (YPbPr)​ Y Green    PB Blue    PR Red   Component analog video/VGA (RGB/HV)​ R Red    _G_ _Green_ _  _ _B_ Blue    H(Horizontal sync)/S(Composite Sync) Yellow    V(Vertical sync) White   
  
   
   
  This table will show you which cable is which. If the cable doesn't have orange surrounding it, it isn't digital coaxil! The blue and red in the first picture of the component RCA is on the list!


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Orange, ok thanks again.
   
  Is there a reason "they" made these cables look so similar? Ok nevermind I see, so they use the same connector standard...hmm. Wow that makes things really confusing for the average consumner I bet. Like you said they look almost identical sans the colored labels.
   
  Ok yeah thanks, I'll make sure the E17 is grounded to something and I'll probably get an extra long cable to give it some slack.
   
   
  I might as well ask, you said that a $8 cable would be pretty good but I found a optical cable for around $4 on monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=6273&seq=1&format=2
   
  You think this is too cheap?
   
   
  Also the coaxial cable (althought this one might be too heavy which like you said can be a bad thing...): http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=6306&seq=1&format=2
   
  You think these are too cheap or they will be okay?
   
   
  I've ordered other cables from monoprice in the past and most of their stuff is fairly decent. Don't really know about these cables though but the reviews seem okay.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Orange, ok thanks again.
> 
> Is there a reason "they" made these cables look so similar? Ok nevermind I see, so they use the same connector standard...hmm. Wow that makes things really confusing for the average consumner I bet. Like you said they look almost identical sans the colored labels.
> 
> ...


 
  Really it's hard to know if it is ok but you really SHOULDN'T have any problems with these. The optical cable you have is fine and I have one from micca that is also thin and really, optical was originanly thin. The really heavy ones are just....for static setups.
   
  Most digital coaxil cables with RCA connect are that thick and heavy..so it should be fine.
   
  Monoprice says there is no restocking fee and easy return so I think it's ok, but it's alll up to you. Rarely does something go bad though to ease you up. It's just that as a member of this site, I can't just say go without warning you that I can't possibly know if it is going to be bad.
   
  If it helps, I buy form MP all the time and have no problems. They aren't snake oil at all.
   
  RCA connect...yeah...tricky stuff but at least it's a standard?
   
  Yeah.....hopefully you can leave some desk space so that you can relieve some pressure on the jack
   
  This is what I did

   
  it was a mistake to get a 6ft cable that weighs......oh goodness...a lot for a cable and especailly one for a portable light device.
   
   
   
  15ft? wow..... that must be some thing! Just to let you know that both Coaxil and Optical toslink (it has fiber optics inside) does have signal degrade, but at 15feet you don't need to worryabout it. Just keep it in mind if you are going 50ft+ and especailly at 100ft+. The speed(MHz) of the wire and the stuff it's made of changes degragation. For wires that are this cheap, you won't get a specs sheet telling you how fast it is... you get those with more high quality and possibly at times snake oil cables.
   
   
   
  THANKS for the upvotes..its good to know that you know it's there! I did a lengthy post in this thread once and asked for it...and man a lot of people did..but upvotes have no effect on head-fi. IT just shows up nice sometimes. But it does feel good! Let me tell you that!
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3105#post_8341120
   
  There are some minor innacuracies I have learned of but none that will affect the process.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Sweet.  Yes Monoprice hasn't let me down so I'll try them again.
   
  Another nice picture.  
   
  I'm not sure if I'm correct, but are you connecting your E17 to your laptop via a high quality optical cable (gray)?
   
  Is this better than using the USB connection?
   
   
   
  I'll keep that in mind, I know I ordered a "high quality" 3.5 MM audio cable and that thing was about 3-4 times thicker than a regular cable  O_O.  Really stiff, but good quality though.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Sweet.  Yes Monoprice hasn't let me down so I'll try them again.
> 
> Another nice picture.
> 
> ...


 
  Using the word high quality is incorrect  They are known as "fancy" on mp for a reason and that is that......they aren't high quality as you would expect. It is of good quality and matierals on the outside that I can feel..but what really matters is the inside(not entirely, not allowing the cable to bend is also important)(and shielding if it's coaxil). the outside uses good quality materials but is unrefined and sharp sometimes. 
   
  There are some that say USB is better, Coaxil is warmer, Optical is cleaner....and really, if you are using things that are working correctly (USB and all those inputs gets problems sometimes) and do a real blind test(that some say isn't even blind and won't work well) you won't tell a difference 99% of the time(napkin). Worry about that when you get tothe $1000 price range point. But righ tnow, the only difference in choosing them is that amps and DAC's at this price point sometimes and half the time will say that USB will support 96KHz and Optical will support 192KHz or vice versa. I used optical on my E17 as USB on the E17 has a class 1 audio driver meaning it doesn't need to instal one but due to that and the chip it is limited to 96KHz and being the guy I was, I wanted 192KHz.
   
   
  Analog cables are a bit differnet and you should get "high quality" ones. Just make sure you aren't paying a fortune. Good priced ones with good wiring is important. I won't get into analog here as it's even more debated and due to the nature of it some say hundred dollar ones are important. But me personally. I won't spend over $30 for an analog one.
   
  I know that you are now curious on 96KHz and 192KHz and all those sample rates so I will link and quote what I wrote a month or two ago. I wrote it on my phone in a car so there may be rushings or innacuracies..even more than what I have now.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3555#post_8414234
   
   
   
  Quote bowei006: 





> The benefits of anything over 44.1KHz 16bit(unless its classical) theoretically can not be heard differently from a human if we base it off the sinplest calculations and theory. It is that many times "better" yes but as humans we cant hear it. The highest a human can ever hear is 22KHz and that is as a baby. The average person hears at 17KHz maximum. So following Nyquists theorem te sample rate has to be half and more than the maximum hearing so 44.1KHz was used. Supposedly we arent hearing anything past that but tests have confirmed thr we do get benefits. A sample rate of 96KHz is already way tok high to handle and decode which will add jitter to the audio but at 96KHz the audio will add sharpness to it and there is some "hardware" audio from the encoding process that will also influence how it sounds. 192KHz is even more taxing on a system due to the sheer number of times the audi is sampled per amount of time and thus adds more jitter to the audio but also sharpness.
> 
> Its up to you which tradeoff you want. 96KHz /24bit or 192KHz/24 bit. 192KHz thus is not superior in hat sense. Due to the encoding of 192KHz it could add hardware noise that make a sweet sound some like. It can also be said that when 192KHz first started the people that used it were faniliar with oldies and noise due to vinyls an thus didnt mind the extra jitter of 192KHz(if they can hear and differentiate even) and thus prefere 192KHz to its extra sharpness and hardware added noise. This preference skyrocketed an led to the misconceptionthat 192 and a bigger number is superior.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Also keep in mind that if you are not using WASAPI or ASIO, using and setting it on 24bit is a bit important sonically. If it isn't whenever you "reduce" or change the volume on the computer or anywhere below 100%, you are reducing the bits of data (dynamic range)! 16bit is considered the bare minimum and we humans can hear it! NWAVGUY designed the ODAC to support 24 bit so that you can change the volume (not to an extreme I think) and still have enough bits left for a good noise ceiling(or floor). Since you are doing this with a TV....it will be hard to see whether it will be 16bit or 24bit or even change it so to keep best sound quality and because your stuff probably will output 16bit.. keep TV volume at 100% IF YOU CAN CHANGE IT. And change volume with E17  only. The E7 originally disabled the user from changing the volume , but as FiiO is universal, many people didn't understand this and so for the E17 they disabled such a ....disabling of volume controls on the computer and let the user do whatever.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Yeah dude I wish I could upvote you even more but it says "you have reached your limit for rating content".
   
  Don't know when the next chance thy'll let me but I'll upvote some more for all this info you've provided .
   
  Ok yeah I've heard about that degradation in HDMI cables (I think it's anything past 15 ft or something?). It's a little better with audio cables I guess, that's good to know. Definitly going ot do some measurements when I get home so I don't order too big of a cable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Yeah dude I wish I could upvote you even more but it says "you have reached your limit for rating content".
> 
> Don't know when the next chance thy'll let me but I'll upvote some more for all this info you've provided .
> 
> Ok yeah I've heard about that degradation in HDMI cables (I think it's anything past 15 ft or something?). It's a little better with audio cables I guess, that's good to know. Definitly going ot do some measurements when I get home so I don't order too big of a cable.


 
  Reread my above post again, I added a lot of new info you will be interested in learning...
   
  You don't need to upvote me, i was just telling you the first time to let you know that it does make some people happy, the other few times were in links I linked.... I don't really want to solicite your upvotes. Upvote what you deserve!
   
  So yeah, re read my above post. It actually has info that you can read once and feel smart with forever.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Ah man I just posted and refreshed and you give me an entire new post of good quality info! I'm heading home from work right now but I'll definitely look into this. Really interesting and cool stuff.
   
  It's crazy man, I can't keep up with all the info right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(but I really do appreciate all of it and will read it). 
   
  It's funny because right when I was thinking "What is 96KHz and 192KHz?" you give me a whole description to read haha.
   
  Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Ah man I just posted and refreshed and you give me an entire new post of good quality info! I'm heading home from work right now but I'll definitely look into this. Really interesting and cool stuff.
> 
> It's crazy man, I can't keep up with all the info right now
> 
> ...


 
  Some that believe in snake oil may not agree with me (I am succeptable to snake oil as well) or others that swear they have had a life changing even by switching form USB to optical but really... most of it is ALL IN YOUR HEAD.....


----------



## Brooko

Bowei
   
  Hate to burst your bubble - but you might want to do some reading.  As far as the cable goes - the basic design of RCA analogue and digital coax is the same - 2 wires - using RCA plugs.  The cables you showed a few posts ago can be used for either digital or analogue.  Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector
   
  Often the difference is in the shielding used.  Try it.  get a "supposedly" analogue RCA cable and send a digital signal through it via coax.
   
  Second - you might want to learn a little more about 16 vs 24bit.  At it's simplest - the advantage is only lowering the noise floor.  Anyway - here is a good thread on-it from both sides.  Worth a read:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/415361/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded
   
  Sorry - not trying to have a crack at you or anything - but the stuff on the previous pages you posted isn't correct.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





brooko said:


> Bowei
> 
> Hate to burst your bubble - but you might want to do some reading.  As far as the cable goes - the basic design of RCA analogue and digital coax is the same - 2 wires - using RCA plugs.  The cables you showed a few posts ago can be used for either digital or analogue.  Here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector
> ...


 
  I did say they were of same design. They use the same connector but last I remembered the component RCA cable usually found in homes can not be used for a digital coaxil one that also looks very similar due to the same RCA connector that it uses.
   
  I was actually thinking if a regular component Analog Component RCA cable could send a digital signal but am just following specs. I do not have an coaxil output on my devices right now so I can't do it and try.
   
  We have done different readings on dynamic range. I have actually read that article. Back when I came to head-fi really but my understanding and reading up on it stays with what I have now simplified. I didn't really go into dynamic range. I was only on the principle that to not lose bits of data due to volume control, you should max it out and use E17 to control it. I didn't get into resolution.
   
  This was about it on resolution:
   
   


> 16bit is a number that represents the dynamic range. 16 bit X 6 =96dB noise floor. 24bit isnt "better" so much as it allows for a higher noise floor of 144 dB(24 X 6) which js great for old recordings and classical music that has many instruments that want to go past 96dB. There are higher dynamic ranges but at the moment arent popular.


 
  And I did say that there were minor inacuracies. However I have followed Rik and done some reading leading me to believe, like you have from yours that some recordings (classical which I did mention) can benefit from 24bit.
   
  What have I posted that is all in my opinion that is incorrect?


----------



## ClieOS

In very short distance, normal analog RCA cable and digital coax doesn't show a lot of difference. The key is when it gets longer - digital audio signal can go from 44kHz to 192kHz (they are the same as their sampling rate), so it is much faster than analog signal and essentially making the cable a RF antenna - not only a lot of energy is lost during the transmission but you need to deal with RF interference as well as standing wave issue (the electronic wave bouncing back and forth along the cable). That is why digital cable needs to be 75ohm rated (to reducing standing wave) and fully shielded (to cut down RF leak as well as interference) in a coax configuration. Using an RCA connector rated at 75ohm is just because it is naturally shielded in coax design and common to find. You don't actually need to use RCA connector. Any coax connector that is 75ohm rated can be used.

So analog RCA cable is not the same as digital coax, and there are good reasons why you should use digital coax for digital audio.But at a pinch, you can probably get away with using analog RCA cable for digital audio.


----------



## Brooko

Analogue RCA and digital coax are same thing.  RCA plugs.  Two separate wires.  It's why some people even use them a speaker wire set-ups.
   


> *Don't mistake it for an component RCA cable! They look very very very similar and the more "pro" versions almost look identical! Pro RCA cables and digital coaxil ones LOOK VERY SIMILAR. Except RCA is analog and Digital Coaxil......is unsuprisingly digital! >_< why is this? They both use the RCA connector standard......... regular component RCA cables are easy as they are colored and weak looking.....the more "pro" ones that are component look almost the same!*


 
   
 And this:
   


> Also keep in mind that if you are not using WASAPI or ASIO, using and_* setting it on 24bit is a bit important sonically. *_
> <snip>
> 16bit is considered the _*bare minimum*_ and we humans can hear it


 
  Actually the reason they use 16bit is that theoretically anything of more resolution is beyond our sonic ability to discern.  It's all about the noise floor as I understand it.  If people do want to use 24bit - then go for it.  I do - but it's because I've got some 24/96 recordings from HD-tracks and other sources - purchased because I couldn't get the 16/44.1 equivalents, or because the remastering si supposed to be better.  Yes I suppose I could downsample to 16 bit - but I have 24bit capability so it's no biggie.  Telling someone it's important sonically to use 24bit over 16bit is the bit I found strange.

 Often you'll find better recordings in 24bit - but that's because they've often been carefully remastered (targeted toward the discerning audio lover).  That doesn't mean that 24bit is necessarily sonically discernable (ie if you had the same remastering in both 24 and 16 bit - I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference by listening).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> In very short distance, normal analog RCA cable and digital coax doesn't show a lot of difference. The key is when it gets longer - digital audio signal can go from 44kHz to 192kHz (they are the same as their sampling rate), so it is much faster than analog signal and essentially making the cable a RF antenna - not only a lot of energy is lost during the transmission but you need to deal with RF interference as well as standing wave issue (the electronic wave bouncing back and forth along the cable). That is why digital cable needs to be 75ohm rated (to reducing standing wave) and fully shielded (to cut down RF leak as well as interference) in a coax configuration. Using an RCA connector rated at 75ohm is just because it is natural shielded in coax design and common to find. You don't actually need to use RCA connector. Any coax connector that is 75ohm rated can be used.
> So analog RCA cable is not the same as digital coax, and there are good reasons why you should use digital coax for digital audio.But at a pinch, you can probably get away with using analog RCA cable for digital audio.


 
  Thanks for explaining! I did have my thoughts on if it was possible but I didn't know and so went with the safe route of saying no.
   
  I've been re reading my post on the previous page but like I said above, other than that quoted comment, there wasn't much on dynamic range resolution and even then, me saying 24bit is suited for classicals is from what I have learned reading and is subject to opinion at this stage. The rest on cutting resolution at 16bit can also be debated but that is also on my learning from Nwavguy and other posts saying that 16bit should be the least you should go and volume control on computer can and does reduce it. Which brings Brooko's side of saying that normal recordings don't go past (was it) 16dB? I'll stick with my side as that is what I have read. We can all have our own opinions.


----------



## Brooko

Quote: 





clieos said:


> In very short distance, normal analog RCA cable and digital coax doesn't show a lot of difference. The key is when it gets longer - digital audio signal can go from 44kHz to 192kHz (they are the same as their sampling rate), so it is much faster than analog signal and essentially making the cable a RF antenna - not only a lot of energy is lost during the transmission but you need to deal with RF interference as well as standing wave issue (the electronic wave bouncing back and forth along the cable). That is why digital cable needs to be 75ohm rated (to reducing standing wave) and fully shielded (to cut down RF leak as well as interference) in a coax configuration. Using an RCA connector rated at 75ohm is just because it is natural shielded in coax design and common to find. You don't actually need to use RCA connector. Any coax connector that is 75ohm rated can be used.
> So analog RCA cable is not the same as digital coax, and there are good reasons why you should use digital coax for digital audio.But at a pinch, you can probably get away with using analog RCA cable for digital audio.


 
   
  Thanks ClieOS - I didn't know that - I use shielded cable myself on my own cable builds.  The pics Bowei showed in the other page were both well shielded RCA cables by the look of it - and I'd lay odds that both would be interchangeable.
   
  @Bowei - appears I am wrong (re the 75ohm difference) - I apologise.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





brooko said:


> Analogue RCA and digital coax are same thing.  RCA plugs.  Two separate wires.  It's why some people even use them a speaker wire set-ups.
> 
> 
> And this:
> ...


 
  Clieos has gave a good explanation on the differece....and I did mention shielding a lot. And in the user's case(Afro) considering it's going to be near all those components and to get best results(the cable is less than $10) a digital coaxil which is different, should be used.
   
  I said to use 24bit sonically is not for sound improvement sorry. Well, kinda. When I said sonically was that from my own personal learnings. 16 bit is the minimum. Truning volume down on the computer reduces those bits and thus goes below 16bit. To counteract this, Nwavguy and my readings like 24bit as it gives head way room so that you can do a bit of playing around with the volume on the computer AND unit without worrying much. But of course I also believe that some recordings like clasical CAN indeed fully use past 16bit (96dB) of dynamic range and it's noise floor and thus go into the territory of 24bit.
   
  I agree. Even though I agree that classical from my readings can go into 24bit terriroty. I would personally NEVER be able to tell the difference. Well maybe, I have not done any prolonged 24bit vs 16bit classical listens but even then I can't say I will. I was mearly saying that not using 24bit on the E17 on the computer may lead to problems sonically if you go below 16 bits.
   
  So we are in agreement! Our understandings of what recordings should max out at what are a bit different, but I never meant to say 24bit was superior! I read the same article as well long ago!  And only set it to not FURTHER or...TO degrade the quality that in my opinion 16bit is the minimum of!


----------



## lubczyk

Just a question about charging. I have USB charging set to off. If the battery was to run out of juice, would I be unable to charge the battery through USB?


----------



## Bleether

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Just a question about charging. I have USB charging set to off. If the battery was to run out of juice, would I be unable to charge the battery through USB?


 

 Of course u can charge it dude.


----------



## MattTCG

Question. I have the e17 configured as a dac only.
   
  -purchased l7 doc
  -lo bass switch is set correctly
  -mini usb to pc
  -3.5 out to rca to an amp
   
  Just got this all setup yesterday. I have been listening to the e17 directly for several days. After I set the unit up as a dac, I hooked it up to my Schitt Asgard and Yulong A100 to see just how it would sound. Well, it's not that good. It's about the same as the e17 by itself. I might even prefer the e17 as a solo unit. I don't really understand why I'm not getting improved sound.
   
  The only thing that I can come up with is that I'm using a rather cheap 3.5 to RCA cable. Could it make that much difference? Maybe I'm doing something else wrong.
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





bleether said:


> Of course u can charge it dude.


 
  Thanks for the response!!!


----------



## bowei006

@lubcz
When the fiio runs out of battery. Settings go to default and usb charge is auto enabled again.... Or as it has no power will allow you to do whatever. So yeah


@matt
Use it for a few days or weeks first. It does take some time to start hearing te differences! Do some listening on then line out to asgard setup for a day and switch back to e17 solo the next and do some comparisons!
Unless your cable is really cheap it shouldnt make a difference. Really super cheap ones can be faulty but you can usually tell as the audio has deficiencies.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Picked up my E17 at Fedex today and so far I am really enjoying the sound.
   
  I'm at work at the moment so can only do:
   
  iPod Classic -> L3 -> E17 -> ATH M50, UE TF10
   
  I really cannot pinpoint exactly what sounds better (I'm a newbie to this audiophile stuff), but everything just... sounds better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Instrument separation sounds clearer and the bass is more deep with my M50s.
   
  I can hear little nuances from songs that I never heard before and the music overall feels like it is surrounding my head.
   
  It feels really good haha.
   
  Can't wait to try it with some of my FLAC files at home and my D2000.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Picked up my E17 at Fedex today and so far I am really enjoying the sound.
> 
> I'm at work at the moment so can only do:
> 
> ...


 
  Spend a few more days with it and do some comparisons like I said to MAtt. Doing a full day with E17 and different connections (like with your ipod and then as a DAC with computer) and then a day back to what you used before and then a day going back and forth between the two. Or whatever you want.
   
  Posts like this about it sounding good is nice, but will really be unproductive to the whole effort. It adds bias to stuff like this. Granted, going on a thread dedicated to a device is already biased as most haven't heard others in the same range, but doing comparisons and finding the nuances and differences after a few days of listening would be actuallly helpful if you would like to add them. I don't do or add them sometimes as Im a casual listener, and posts about it being a good unit and sounding good are great ! But going the extra mile would be nice..not that I always do it.


----------



## AFRO insomniac

Yeah I get that it may sound biased (since I did purchse the item) but I wanted to throw out there a "newbie's" initial impression.
   
  So far I can tell there is a difference in the sound quality.  I know this is extremely unhelpful to someone wanting specific detail.  For me, I'm glad it does indeed sound better.  It makes me want to listen to my music more often.
   
  Yeah, I'll post specific impressions when I spend more adequate time with the device.
   
  So far songs sound clearer (a little more open too) and the bass is deeper than before.
   
  This may be helped because I am using a LOD on my iPod instead of the headphone jack, although I can tell this has a much larger impact than the LOD + E5 I used in the past.
   
  It also sounds better than the E10 I used before.
   
  Then again those two cost significantly less than teh E17 so you have to take that into consideration I guess... =\


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





afro insomniac said:


> Yeah I get that it may sound biased (since I did purchse the item) but I wanted to throw out there a "newbie's" initial impression.
> 
> *So far I can tell there is a difference in the sound quality.  I know this is extremely unhelpful to someone wanting specific detail.  For me, I'm glad it does indeed sound better.  It makes me want to listen to my music more often.*
> 
> ...


 
  Hahah yeah! I know it was one and I even posted my own back then. People like seeing initial impressions. It makes the device look popular and make them want to buy it even more
   
  The bolded part...... this thread does have 255 pages...... pages 50-80 and 100-120 and who knows what after has the most info on the E17 actually.


----------



## Toorc

My E17 doesnt work with my DV6 USB 3.0 port. Though it detects, installs and shows in the list. But no sound when I connect to USB 3.0 port. USB 2.0 works fine for me. My OS is Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit).
   
  I went through this thread and found that E17 works fine with USB 3.0
   
  Is it the problem with my DV6 USB 3.0 port or my E17?


----------



## ClieOS

If it works fine with USB2.0 port but not USB3.0 port, then your PC's USB3.0 driver is probably the culprit.


----------



## airomjosh

@Clieos
   
  Is this an upgrade from Lear  FSM-01


----------



## ClieOS

airomjosh said:


> @Clieos
> Is this an upgrade from Lear  FSM-01




SQ wise, no. It is more like side stepping. In fact, I'll say FSM-01 is slightly better in transparency.


----------



## airomjosh

thanks Clieos


----------



## MattTCG

I regard the e17 very highly and despite the massive thread here I still don't think that people appreciate just how good this product is overall. With that being said, I'm disappointed with e17 as a dac. 
   
  I've spent quite a few hours with it over the past two days with a Schitt Asgard and Yulong A100 and for me it just falls short. I will be doing some comparisons with the odac and bifrost over the next few days to see just how it stacks up.
   
  Oh well...


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MattTCG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I will be doing some comparisons with the odac and bifrost over the next few days to see just how it stacks up.
> 
> Looking forward to ODAC comparison


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> I will be doing some comparisons with the odac and bifrost over the next few days to see just how it stacks up.




No wonder you feel disappointed. ODAC and BiFrost? They are not that easy to beat :rolleyes:


----------



## Brault

Has anyone found a way to use the E17 DAC with iPad, other than buying the Matrix converter for over $50? Why does the iPad think USB power is required when charging is "off" on the E17? Very disappointing...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





brault said:


> Has anyone found a way to use the E17 DAC with iPad, other than buying the Matrix converter for over $50? Why does the iPad think USB power is required when charging is "off" on the E17? Very disappointing...


 
  It's been said before on this thread. You need to somehow supply extra power to the E17. The USB draw ITSELF is over the iPads limits of 100-150mah. Not very disappointing, it's a regular device that doesn't have the "gift" that other DAC's do. Being able to use your DAC with an ipad or other portable device that allows its usage is not a given, it's a special "addition" that some audiophiles can enjoy(typically on $100 portable DACs) as they won't need as much USB power draw usualy(there is a thread on which DAC's will work with iPad and it's limit).


----------



## Brault

Thanks bowei006,
Sorry for my whingeing, I'm actually quite satisfied with the E17 through the LOD, and using its DAC instead of the Mac line out is a real pleasure. It's just that I expected it to work like the E7. No big deal, I really like the E17 with my MS1i's. Thanks for responding.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





brault said:


> Thanks bowei006,
> Sorry for my whingeing, I'm actually quite satisfied with the E17 through the LOD, and using its DAC instead of the Mac line out is a real pleasure. It's just that I expected it to work like the E7. No big deal, I really like the E17 with my MS1i's. Thanks for responding.


 
  Big thumbs up for a nice reply! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Others usually give me a "go away" remark or something. Or even worse, argue and whine even more about how they want and expected something that was not in the official features or barely talked of.
   
  LIke I said, there is a thread with the list of devies that have a low enough USB powerdraw to be used with the iPad through CCK so give it a look if you would ike


----------



## kenman345

Hey guys, How does this Alpen compare in terms of sound quality and sound stage to the Pico Slim? Also, does the Alpen pair well with sensitive IEMs? I currently have a pair of customs that running unamped gives a slight hiss and having my Pico Slim attached to the back of my iPod is great and all but i want something with more options for when I get other audio gear and to have a second amp. I was looking into the E17 for it's pairing with the E9 which would definitely help make it valuable to have as I look into the future of my audio gear career.
   
  I don't want to replace the Pico Slim, but merely have a secondary amp, let me know what you guys think for this situation. Is the Pico Slim a whole lot better?


----------



## IKE60

brault said:


> Has anyone found a way to use the E17 DAC with iPad, other than buying the Matrix converter for over $50? Why does the iPad think USB power is required when charging is "off" on the E17? Very disappointing...



[=http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3495#post_8399026]This[/] is how I did it, but it actually cost no less than the Matrix solution.

The iPad current limit for the USB CCK is 20 mA. The E17 draws 150 mA (according to a FiiO employee who occasionally posts in this thread.)


----------



## bowei006

kenman345 said:


> Hey guys, How does this Alpen compare in terms of sound quality and sound stage to the Pico Slim? Also, does the Alpen pair well with sensitive IEMs? I currently have a pair of customs that running unamped gives a slight hiss and having my Pico Slim attached to the back of my iPod is great and all but i want something with more options for when I get other audio gear and to have a second amp. I was looking into the E17 for it's pairing with the E9 which would definitely help make it valuable to have as I look into the future of my audio gear career.
> 
> I don't want to replace the Pico Slim, but merely have a secondary amp, let me know what you guys think for this situation. Is the Pico Slim a whole lot better?



http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/1035#post_8110107

These are not my thoughts and the device is not a slim. But hope you find it useful.


----------



## JamesFiiO

We are developing a new portable DAC for Android phone which is fully self powered by build in battery, which means it will suitable for iPad too. but I think the iPad DAC is a very narrow market.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new portable DAC for Android phone which is fully self powered by build in battery, which means it will suitable for iPad too. but I think the iPad DAC is a very narrow market.


 
   
  Awesome news! Would you mind posting a render or concept art of the device just so i can get my excitement juices pumping


----------



## bowei006

jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new portable DAC for Android phone which is fully self powered by build in battery, which means it will suitable for iPad too. but I think the iPad DAC is a very narrow market.




If you make it work for android, make it work for the ipad too. I doubt it would be harder , allows more "fiio famous universality". I wish it would work with my phone as dac, but apple liscense...... is a problem.


----------



## Tilpo

jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new portable DAC for Android phone which is fully self powered by build in battery, which means it will suitable for iPad too. but I think the iPad DAC is a very narrow market.



You are my hero. 

I want to have a portable amp/DAC, but I find most of them don't work on Android for some odd reason. This is very good news indeed.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> You are my hero.
> I want to have a portable amp/DAC, but I find most of them don't work on Android for some odd reason. This is very good news indeed.


 
  You are forgetting the best news Rikkun. This is FiiO, and it doesn't seem like the Android DAC will be a flagship unit....so look at or think about how much it will maybe cost.... With the E10 and E7 as baseline price.......  and not some $400 snake oil


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> You are forgetting the best news Rikkun. This is FiiO, and it doesn't seem like the Android DAC will be a flagship unit....so look at or think about how much it will maybe cost.... With the E10 and E7 as baseline price.......  and not some $400 snake oil



Exactly. I didn't forget about that, I merely assumed it as common knowledge 

Only thing left is the form factor. I'm already carrying around pretty much the biggest phone on the market. If the thing is too thick, then the discomfort when carrying it in my pocket will be too great.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Exactly. I didn't forget about that, I merely assumed it as common knowledge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  FiiO is still actively releasing line out or cable based instruments so they will like they did with the L9 release a universal android very minimalistic cable(not always at the same time as release) that works with either a plethora of android devices that support OTG or at least the very popular ones...or variants of cables(unlikely?) FiiO's portable amps and products...are actually very small. The E17 was pretty small considering it had a two stage amp and a DAC and a screen with all those inputs...unless something happens I expect something like this:

   
  (although the shadow isnt a DAC)


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> FiiO is still actively releasing line out or cable based instruments so they will like they did with the L9 release a universal android very minimalistic cable(not always at the same time as release) that works with either a plethora of android devices that support OTG or at least the very popular ones...or variants of cables(unlikely?) FiiO's portable amps and products...are actually very small. The E17 was pretty small considering it had a two stage amp and a DAC and a screen with all those inputs...unless something happens I expect something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A universal Android cable? Not really possible, different phones use different outputs. Mine uses micro-USB B, but mini or other connectors are common too.

And yeah, I do kinda need a DAC as well. HP out from my phone isn't exactly audiophile quality, although good enough for portable use in most cases. However, if and when I get CIEM's I want a DAC/amp


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> A universal Android cable? Not really possible, different phones use different outputs. Mine uses micro-USB B, but mini or other connectors are common too.
> And yeah, I do kinda need a DAC as well. HP out from my phone isn't exactly audiophile quality, although good enough for portable use in most cases. However, if and when I get CIEM's I want a DAC/amp


 
  Oops, forgot about that part, and the need for an amp 
   
  Hmmm.. What would be awesome but would add size, cost and other stuff is that in addition to the android dac and amp..there is the option to again line out the amplifier so you can essentially use it like a CLAS AND a HP-P1..but for Android..


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Oops, forgot about that part, and the need for an amp
> 
> Hmmm.. What would be awesome but would add size, cost and other stuff is that in addition to the android dac and amp..there is the option to again line out the amplifier so you can essentially use it like a CLAS AND a HP-P1..but for Android..



That's not possible without modding the phone itself, which I won't since I'll be losing my warranty over stuff like that. 

Line-out over USB is not possible either. The apple connectors are different, as they also have plugs dedicated to audio, instead of USB which only supports digital transfer and DC power.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> That's not possible without modding the phone itself, which I won't since I'll be losing my warranty over stuff like that.
> Line-out over USB is not possible either. The apple connectors are different, as they also have plugs dedicated to audio, instead of USB which only supports digital transfer and DC power.


 
  What i meant is that as you will be using a external DAC and amp in the soon to be FiiO unit, having Fiio allow the DAC to send a fixed(or variable..or both, but I like fixed) line signal out of another port..or even the same one to another amp would be a nice nifty addition.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> What i meant is that as you will be using a external DAC and amp in the soon to be FiiO unit, having Fiio allow the DAC to send a fixed(or variable..or both, but I like fixed) line signal out of another port..or even the same one to another amp would be a nice nifty addition.



Yeah, but I won't be using such a function since it won't fit in my pocket anymore if I do.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Yeah, but I won't be using such a function since it won't fit in my pocket anymore if I do.


 
  Well Fiio universality is quite well known... but just saying that many would love to have it. Using a DAC..but have the option to add an even more expensive small form ($500) amp from who knows what. Pico and what not for their IEM's, or even the Ray Samuels pictured above.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Well Fiio universality is quite well known... but just saying that many would love to have it. Using a DAC..but have the option to add an even more expensive small form ($500) amp from who knows what. Pico and what not for their IEM's, or even the Ray Samuels pictured above.



I could add my Mini3 and have a semi-portable rig for vacations and use it with my HD650. 

Related news: since my phone is being repaired at the moment, I'll be using my trustworthy iPod -> Mini3 rig again tomorrow when I'm out delivering mail. This will be the first time in many months.

This rig uses a FiiO line out cable, of course.


----------



## IKE60

jamesfiio said:


> We are developing a new portable DAC for Android phone which is fully self powered by build in battery, which means it will suitable for iPad too. but I think the iPad DAC is a very narrow market.



Does FiiO know something the rest of us don't? Current Android builds (4.0.x) don't allow USB digital audio out. It would be great if Google has actually decided to implement this.


----------



## Tilpo

ike60 said:


> Does FiiO know something the rest of us don't? Current Android builds (4.0.x) don't allow USB digital audio out. It would be great if Google has actually decided to implement this.



Perhaps they will make an app specifically for the DAC, which can act as an audio driver for the device. It should be possible, I recon.


----------



## odyssey

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> Does FiiO know something the rest of us don't? Current Android builds (4.0.x) don't allow USB digital audio out. It would be great if Google has actually decided to implement this.


 
  x 2... the many thousands waiting for this to happen...
   
  hope either FiiO finds a solution to this or Google has listened to the many who voted for the implementation.


----------



## ninjames

So I got the E17 on a whim, because I needed a portable amp and also because it was a great price. I also figured I would use it as a DAC paired with my Little Dot MKIII using the Sennheiser HD595 and the Hifiman HE-400. I was pretty happy with the E17 as a DAC. If I had to describe it in that vein, I'd call it unobtrusive. It lets my amp shine and doesn't throttle the sound. Things were a bit more bright and sparkly on the high end with little change to the lows.
   
  About a week prior, I ordered a Muse DA20 off of eBay for $40 and it just got here yesterday. I just tried it out and overall, I think I like it as a DAC better than the E17. It's also unobtrusive, but it's just got ... some more impact. My music didn't sound much different - it allowed the MKIII to do it's thing, but it really added some kick to a lot of music. It got right on the line between harsh and punchy and I liked it an awful lot.
   
  Just thought I'd post this for any DAC-curious folks.


----------



## ntsjoberg

Frustration ahoy!
   
  I posted earlier in this thread about my E17 which had a flashing red light rather than a stable glow, which appeared to have something to do with the battery not being able to receive any charge. If anybody else gets this, or their device doesn't charge up properly, (according to the people at AVshop (amazon.uk seller I got it from)) it's bad enough to return the E17 for a replacement.
   
  Which I did... BIG MISTAKE! Sent it via DHL with a return label last tuesday and then everything went silent. After several emails to different people I finally got an aswer today, stating that they had no idea what was going on because their service guy was sick and nobody had seen my package. So, unless a miracle happens, no E17 this vacation. Which was partly why I got one in the first place.


----------



## Tilpo

ntsjoberg said:


> Frustration ahoy!
> 
> I posted earlier in this thread about my E17 which had a flashing red light rather than a stable glow, which appeared to have something to do with the battery not being able to receive any charge. If anybody else gets this, or their device doesn't charge up properly, (according to the people at AVshop (amazon.uk seller I got it from)) it's bad enough to return the E17 for a replacement.
> 
> Which I did... BIG MISTAKE! Sent it via DHL with a return label last tuesday and then everything went silent. After several emails to different people I finally got an aswer today, stating that they had no idea what was going on because their service guy was sick and nobody had seen my package. So, unless a miracle happens, no E17 this vacation. Which was partly why I got one in the first place.



Ouch. That's too bad to hear. 

I hope you can still get it back in time.


----------



## ntsjoberg

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Ouch. That's too bad to hear.
> I hope you can still get it back in time.


 

 Thanks.  I do hope so too, but I don't have much hope left.
   
  This seemingly pointless rant of mine actually makes no less than two points, though. Except for the obvious heads up about weird errors somebody might get, I guess I also want to point out that FiiO obviously made such a darned fine piece of earcandy that I now feel somewhat cheated of musical detail when I'm without it.
   
  Before parting with the E17, I tried it with a few different sources and happily, it also made my NAD C515BEE CD player sound a lot clearer, less "veiled" and definitely more natural over both optical (I love having a DAC with optical input) and (less obviously) even RCA. 
   
  E17, please be back soon!


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





ntsjoberg said:


> Frustration ahoy!
> 
> I posted earlier in this thread about my E17 which had a flashing red light rather than a stable glow, which appeared to have something to do with the battery not being able to receive any charge. If anybody else gets this, or their device doesn't charge up properly, (according to the people at AVshop (amazon.uk seller I got it from)) it's bad enough to return the E17 for a replacement.
> 
> Which I did... BIG MISTAKE! Sent it via DHL with a return label last tuesday and then everything went silent. After several emails to different people I finally got an aswer today, stating that they had no idea what was going on because their service guy was sick and nobody had seen my package. So, unless a miracle happens, no E17 this vacation. Which was partly why I got one in the first place.


 
   
  I think we concluded earlier that Amazon had shipped it to you (under their "Fullfilled By Amazon" scheme). So did you return it to Amazon rather than AVshop?
  If so are you using Amazon's Returns Support Centre to track progress? Have you tried tracking the package via DHL?


----------



## ntsjoberg

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> I think we concluded earlier that Amazon had shipped it to you (under their "Fullfilled By Amazon" scheme). So did you return it to Amazon rather than AVshop?
> If so are you using Amazon's Returns Support Centre to track progress? Have you tried tracking the package via DHL?


 
   


 I initially contacted both Amazon and AVshop but Amazon told me to try AVshop first, and to get back to them if it didn't work out. AVshop however told me that they would get new stock to their local support centre in a couple of days, so I opted for getting a replacement as they claimed it would be a quick swap. As soon as they had it in stock, they emailed me with a return label which I printed and attached to the package. All simple and friendly emails with AVshop up until this point. Then, apparently, their service engineer got sick and my e-mails seem to have stuck on their side.
   
  I DO assume, however, that DHL are the ones responsible for this mess. Their package handling is awful and they often send their stuff all over the place before they get to where they were supposed to get in the first place. I tried tracking the package via their site, but got various errors before getting to the actual tracking page, so I can't do that either.
   
  I do have faith in AVshop and their personnel and believe that things will be okay, but I am frustrated atm since it's taking so much time and effort.


----------



## ninjames

Eh, you should have been more firm with Amazon. I've had to do returns on several items and if you're firm with them, they give you what they want. One time the return just wasn't processed at all even though I sent it back. I shot them an email, told them what happened, and insisted I get a refund, even though the item wasn't sold directly by them. They processed it that day. I've also had them administer several partial refunds on slightly damaged goods of 20% without showing pictures or anything like that - it's never taken more than one email. Amazon support are real pushovers.


----------



## ManShear

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> I received mine this morning. Bought using eBay and shipping time only two weeks from China to the UK.
> 
> And it sounds sublime. Can finally play 24bit 96KHz FLAC files using Flacplayer on my iPad3. I just hope iOS6 doesn't screw things up in the autumn (fall).


 
  I'm interested in getting this for the sme reason you did.  What cable (and adapters if necessary) are you using between it and the E17?


----------



## Duncan

Sorry, cannot search though 257 pages to see if this has been answered, so - if nothing else, just a recap if I may - Just got the E17 today, but when connecting it to my Win 7 Pro machine, it says that the device driver failed to load...
   
  Could it be because I have run the E7 successfully? - if not (or even if!) - does anyone have a solution?
   
  Thanks,


----------



## Tilpo

duncan said:


> Sorry, cannot search though 257 pages to see if this has been answered, so - if nothing else, just a recap if I may - Just got the E17 today, but when connecting it to my Win 7 Pro machine, it says that the device driver failed to load...
> 
> Could it be because I have run the E7 successfully? - if not (or even if!) - does anyone have a solution?
> 
> Thanks,



My experience with USB audio devices and Win7 is that they sometimes behave a little weird. Unplugging and replugging the device and restarting your computer once or twice always fixed the issue for me, but I've got to add that it was with a different audio device (the Audio-GD NFB-12). I personally don't own an E17.
The E7 should not have an effect.

Just to be sure -- it does not pop up under playback devices in the sound options? Even when showing disabled devices as well?

Good luck.


----------



## Duncan

Thanks for the speedy response Tilpo,
   
  I've answered my own question - the E17 needs more USB juice than the E7, and I was running it on a shared port - got it on its own port now, and straight away driver installed, and all is good


----------



## xeroian

manshear said:


> I'm interested in getting this for the sme reason you did.  What cable (and adapters if necessary) are you using between it and the E17?




At the time of posting I was using one of the 1 metre van del hul D102 mk11 cables with Tiffany RCA/Phono connectors I made years ago to connect up my Mission CD player. State of the art in 1986.

Recently for greater portability I have just been using a one inch long Male to male phono coupler which cost me £2.29. http://www.maplin.co.uk/male-to-male-phono-couplers-218488

Out of curiosity I am about to try a 0.5m Chord Prodac digital cable that costs £50.

My heart says the van den hul will win. My head says the zero length phono coupler should be best.

However there are other variables such as the USB cable between the CCK and the Matrix(the one supplied at the moment) and more significantly the headphones used (B&W C5 and P5, AKG Q701)
Ian


----------



## jjacq

Question. I have the E17 and the L7 used with my A5's and I'm wondering if there's a way to use the DAC only part when using Optical in? I wanna use optical from my computer to the E17 but I don't want to double amp the A5's with the E17. Help?


----------



## xeroian

Post deleted by author, sorry.


----------



## bowei006

@jaq chan
Thats the point of the L7. There are two switches on the E17 side with lo bypass. Just switch it around with a pen until the eq and volume stops working on the E17. With one lo bypass option the pre amp is still availble (and thus its in "variable out") and the other it will be set to fixed line out where the pre amp will be disengaged.


----------



## IKE60

Xeroian,

Does the Matrix device _require_ the iPad output to be 24b/96kHz, or is that just the maximum supported? I primarily listen to 16b/44.1kHz.

Thx.


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> Xeroian,
> Does the Matrix device _require_ the iPad output to be 24b/96kHz, or is that just the maximum supported? I primarily listen to 16b/44.1kHz.
> Thx.


 
   
  24b/96kHz is simply the maximum supported. I can use the standard iPad player and the Fiio says it has synced at 16/48. If I use FLACplayer to play 24b/96kHz files the Fiio syncs at 24b/96kHz. If I use FLACplayer to play 24b/192kHz files this still works and the Fiio shows 24b/96kHz.


----------



## fuzzyash

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> The address of the ASIO driver http://www.fiio.com.cn/support/download.aspx, plz go to the last page to find the driver and download it. and welcome to feedback any bugs to us by market@fiio.com.cn


 
  I just got my e17 and downloaded their e17 asio driver. could someone explain what this is used for? i read the installation page on head fi but still did not understand what it does. 
   
  is this driver for use only with foobar2000 since im rather fond of itunes


----------



## jjacq

Er I can't figure it out for some reason. I wanna use an Optical In with my Audioengine A5's.

 I took out the USB, plugged in the L7 and kept the 3.5mm(connected to the A5's in) on the L7 then plugged in the optical cable. I have the input on OPT and it's set as default on my computer. No sound is coming through though. I also tried taking out the L7, using the headphone jack next to the Optical in I connected the speakers and still no luck...

 Can someone help? Panda sama ? haha.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Er I can't figure it out for some reason. I wanna use an Optical In with my Audioengine A5's.
> 
> I took out the USB, plugged in the L7 and kept the 3.5mm(connected to the A5's in) on the L7 then plugged in the optical cable. I have the input on OPT and it's set as default on my computer. No sound is coming through though. I also tried taking out the L7, using the headphone jack next to the Optical in I connected the speakers and still no luck...
> 
> Can someone help? Panda sama ? haha.


 
  First of all...MAKE SURE that on your computer you have it set to the right one! Try other ones that say S/PDIF or digital. NExt if you are using foobar....also CHECK to make sure that you are setting it to the right output!!! The most obvious one may not be right!
   
  After that.. play a song and turn up the volume on the A5's....hear anything? If yes...then succesful. See if you can control volume with E17 and apply EQ. If so, then switch the LO bypass to the opposite side(you said you didn't want to dual amp) if not. Then keep it.
   
  Don't hear anything? Play with outputs again and make sure output settings are correct.


----------



## GuSec

Hi!
   
  I'm very interested in purchasing the FiiO E17 as a DAC/Amp for both desktop and mobile use. I can't afford an expensive DAC/Amp right now, and I'm really starting to fall in love with this product. I am though receiving what I believe to be a Sony STR-DH520 so I am wondering if this FiiO product will improve the SQ over the Sony receiver when listening to music? It would also be nice if it is known if it will improve the SQ when used in combination with an Open Pandora (which is my absolute favorite for music - sounds amazing), but this is of course a much harder question to answer (since it is such a niche product)!
   
  Anyway, I really like this forum (I've immersed myself to an extreme amount the last week). But I'm still new to everything concerning SQ, so some help would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## bowei006

"Welcom to head fi! Sorry about your wallet" heres your congratulatory first post message!

Welcome! And your question is hard and frequently asked as comparing a receiver to a niche dedicated product is always hard and really, unless another person has the same receiver or the receiver has ASTRONOMICALLY superior specs... You wont be able to tell as how they implemented the parts and the circuit and parts used play a huge role in sound


----------



## Tilpo

gusec said:


> Hi!
> 
> I'm very interested in purchasing the FiiO E17 as a DAC/Amp for both desktop and mobile use. I can't afford an expensive DAC/Amp right now, and I'm really starting to fall in love with this product. I am though receiving what I believe to be a Sony STR-DH520 so I am wondering if this FiiO product will improve the SQ over the Sony receiver when listening to music? It would also be nice if it is known if it will improve the SQ when used in combination with an Open Pandora (which is my absolute favorite for music - sounds amazing), but this is of course a much harder question to answer (since it is such a niche product)!
> 
> Anyway, I really like this forum (I've immersed myself to an extreme amount the last week). But I'm still new to everything concerning SQ, so some help would be greatly appreciated!



I just looked at the STR-DH520, it looks like a really cheap receiver, and will probably not have incredible sound quality. I think the FiiO E17 will be better, but don't expect the difference to be _huge._ It may be audible, but I doubt it's going to be anything more than subtle. 
Unless you are using this with a pair of high-end cans, your money is probably better invested in a better pair of headphones. 

Just my two cents.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Hi E17 users,

This post is aimed at those of you who are (or are considering) using the E17 in "DAC ONLY Mode" via the L7 LOD:

There are two quirks I want to highlight when using the E17 paired with the L7 in "DAC ONLY Mode"

First of all, if you use the L7, it goes in the bottom port, with the USB IN on the Left, and the Line Out on the Right. Also, you need to toggle the LO Bypass switch (an indented dot in the recessed panel on the Right Side Panel of the E17.

For USB Input, you connect the USB cable to the USB IN of the L7 LOD. 

For SPDIF Input, you do not connect the USB cable to the USB IN of the L7 LOD (more below on that), and instead, connect your SPDIF/TOSLINK cable to the supplied adaptor that came with the E17, and plug that in to the SPDIF IN port on the Top Left of the E17.


On to the main part of my post:


Issue One:

Occasionally, I have had issues of a system crash / full system lockup requiring a hard reboot, when using SPDIF while recharging via USB at the Same Time, so I no longer connect the USB cable to the L7 if I am going to use the SPDIF Input. YMMV, and if you experience the same problem, it would be nice to know it's not just me.


Issue Two:

I have noticed a quirk with the E17 and the L7 LOD. Whenever, meaning EVERY TIME, you unplug and re-plug the L7 LOD into the port on the bottom of the E17 the input mode will switch to USB.

The display will flash the message "DOCK" then the display will show "USB (volume)", and if you are using Optical, you then need to toggle or press the INPUT switch TWICE to toggle from USB input to OPT (optical) input again.

This will happen every single time you disconnect and then reconnect the L7 LOD. Just FYI.


Regarding Audio settings:

I have Win 7 Pro x64 (as a reference point) and when I switch between my sound card and the E17, I just Right-Click on the Volume Icon in the System Tray, 

[image: System Tray]  

Left-Click on Playback Devices, and a Sound panel opens, 

[image: Sound panel]:  

[image: E17 supported formats]:  

where I select the Playback device I'm going to funnel my sound from (my sound card, OR the E17) Left-Click to highlight the device, then press the Set Default button on the Sound panel. 

[image: Sound panel, selecting Soundcard SPDIF/TOSLINK passthrough]:  

[image: Sound panel, Soundcard SPDIF configuration/supported formats]:



Depending on the Multimedia Playback software you are using (for me it is MediaMonkey4) I would then address my Output Plugin. On MM4 you can go to: Tools > Options > Player > Output Plug-Ins > MediaMonkey WASAPI output (or ASIO, though I prefer WASAPI) > highlight the plugin of choice and click on the Configure button :

[image: MediaMonkey4 : Tools > Options menu]:


[image: MediaMonkey4 : Output Plugins menu]:


image: MediaMonkey4 : WASAPI Output Plugin configuration panel]:



For WASAPI configuration I prefer to let it use the "Default Device" so I can switch between my soundcard and E17 dynaimically via the Sound panel in the system tray... You could also "decide" what you're going to leave connected, or manually configure the device when you want a change. I also select "Exclusive Mode" (with "Automatic choice per format (per track)" so files do not get resampled upon playback)

Hopefully this post will help those of you using the E17 in "DAC ONLY" mode with the L7 LOD. I realize your particualr Media Playback software may be different (iTunes, WMP, JRiver, Foobar) but I thought a complete description of how to swap from "USB Mode" with the E17 to "SPDIF Mode" using my setup would be more useful than jotting a couple of words down. At least the Sound panel configuration should be helpful to anybody using something other than MediaMonkey.


----------



## bowei006

Great post FLAC VEST!
   
  I would have made such a tutorial but I never had an L7 :/  *sad panda*
   
  Now! Take some non existent upvotes! It's guaranteed.........to do nothing..but ...hey!! UPVOTES!!!
  \


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





ninjames said:


> So I got the E17 on a whim, because I needed a portable amp and also because it was a great price. I also figured I would use it as a DAC paired with my Little Dot MKIII using the Sennheiser HD595 and the Hifiman HE-400. I was pretty happy with the E17 as a DAC. If I had to describe it in that vein, I'd call it unobtrusive. It lets my amp shine and doesn't throttle the sound. Things were a bit more bright and sparkly on the high end with little change to the lows.
> 
> About a week prior, I ordered a Muse DA20 off of eBay for $40 and it just got here yesterday. I just tried it out and overall, I think I like it as a DAC better than the E17. It's also unobtrusive, but it's just got ... some more impact. My music didn't sound much different - it allowed the MKIII to do it's thing, but it really added some kick to a lot of music. It got right on the line between harsh and punchy and I liked it an awful lot.
> 
> Just thought I'd post this for any DAC-curious folks.


 
   
  I was thinking the same thing  when I was using the e17 as a dac. It was acceptable but that was about it. Just kind of flat and not in a good way. More along the lines of lifeless. That criticism may be a little harsh as at the time I was comparing it to the odac and bifrost. Kudos for the excellent versatility. I'm actually a big fan of the product overall.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I was thinking the same thing  when I was using the e17 as a dac. It was acceptable but that was about it. Just kind of flat and not in a good way. More along the lines of lifeless. That criticism may be a little harsh as at the time I was comparing it to the odac and bifrost. Kudos for the excellent versatility. I'm actually a big fan of the product overall.


 
   
  I find your thoughts really interesting in how the E17's dac compares to the Bifrost. To me the E17's dac sounds amazing, but that's only because my previous devices had terrible dacs. Now im really curious as to how i'll find the sound when i upgrade my setup in the future. I plan on getting the Beyerdynamic T1 along with the Woo Audio WA2 and Schiit Bifrost.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I was thinking the same thing  when I was using the e17 as a dac. It was acceptable but that was about it. Just kind of flat and not in a good way. More along the lines of lifeless. That criticism may be a little harsh as at the time I was comparing it to the odac and bifrost. Kudos for the excellent versatility. I'm actually a big fan of the product overall.


 
  The DAC used in the AudioEngine D1 is availble for $70 on ebay. 
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=AK4396&_sacat=0
   
  It is the AK4396. A pal of mine on head-fi. Kiteki recommended this standalone unit to me. The DAC used by AKM is popular in the DIY circles but little is known about it and as the Audioengine D1 has an amp in it, you can't fully rely on some users comments as being the DAC itself.
   
  Kiteki also recommended an Musiland Monitor 01 which is also about $70 on ebay and what not
   
  There is little info that I am aware of on those units and during that time, I also needed an amp so they weren't options to me. But it may be an option to you to get a $70 DAC and put it on your desk so that when you are home, you can just pop off the E17 from your phone, put it on your desk and connect through AUX in and play music that way.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I find your thoughts really interesting in how the E17's dac compares to the Bifrost. To me the E17's dac sounds amazing, but that's only because my previous devices had terrible dacs. Now im really curious as to how i'll find the sound when i upgrade my setup in the future. I plan on getting the Beyerdynamic T1 along with the Woo Audio WA2 and Schiit Bifrost.


 
   
  I've owned an even half dozen dacs. The e17 for me was just middle of the pack. Not great not awful. Just okay and would do in a pinch. The bifrost, with the right amp, can take a good pair of hp's to the promised land 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## GuSec

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcom to head fi! Sorry about your wallet" heres your congratulatory first post message!
> Welcome! And your question is hard and frequently asked as comparing a receiver to a niche dedicated product is always hard and really, unless another person has the same receiver or the receiver has ASTRONOMICALLY superior specs... You wont be able to tell as how they implemented the parts and the circuit and parts used play a huge role in sound


 
   
  Quote: 





tilpo said:


> I just looked at the STR-DH520, it looks like a really cheap receiver, and will probably not have incredible sound quality. I think the FiiO E17 will be better, but don't expect the difference to be _huge._ It may be audible, but I doubt it's going to be anything more than subtle.
> Unless you are using this with a pair of high-end cans, your money is probably better invested in a better pair of headphones.
> Just my two cents.


 
   
  I figured as much! Thanks a lot for your support, I'm really grateful. Then my money will probably go to some nicer headphones instead. The FiiO E17 is according to me though, really beautiful!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I've owned an even half dozen dacs. The e17 for me was just middle of the pack. Not great not awful. Just okay and would do in a pinch. The bifrost, with the right amp, can take a good pair of hp's to the promised land
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think you missed my post.
   
  Quote: 





gusec said:


> I figured as much! Thanks a lot for your support, I'm really grateful. Then my money will probably go to some nicer headphones instead. The FiiO E17 is according to me though, really beautiful!


 
  I have a pic album in my signature
http://imgur.com/a/bYc9X
   
  So yeah... I can attest to that.


----------



## elektrosteve

I really love the E17. It sounds great! But one question to FiiO, is it possible to upgrade the EQ to 1dB steps instead of 2dB with a firmware update? That would be awesome.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





elektrosteve said:


> I really love the E17. It sounds great! But one question to FiiO, is it possible to upgrade the EQ to 1dB steps instead of 2dB with a firmware update? That would be awesome.


 
  Make a petition, it should be possible and if enough people want it and sign it...then they may release an optional update.......IF AND ONLY IF it's possible and they feel like it..so give it a try!? If you want one then let it be known and ask FiiO


----------



## MaxD

yup,  got my vote too


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





elektrosteve said:


> I really love the E17. It sounds great! But one question to FiiO, is it possible to upgrade the EQ to 1dB steps instead of 2dB with a firmware update? That would be awesome.


 
   
  I wondered the same. I suspect that if you get a response, it will say something like, "+2/-2 is only a visual equivalent to change and does not represent an actual number. Even if we were to use a firmware update to represent the change that you've requested, if would not have a measurable level of control of the hardware EQ."
   
  Sound about right? Sorry, I'm in a cynical frame of mind today.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I wondered the same. I suspect that if you get a response, it will say something like, "+2/-2 is only a visual equivalent to change and does not represent an actual number. Even if we were to use a firmware update to represent the change that you've requested, if would not have a measurable level of control of the hardware EQ."
> 
> Sound about right? Sorry, I'm in a cynical frame of mind today.


 
  If they don't get one in a week then contacting feiao on head fi to maybe this petition or asking might work


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I've owned an even half dozen dacs. The e17 for me was just middle of the pack. Not great not awful. Just okay and would do in a pinch. The bifrost, with the right amp, can take a good pair of hp's to the promised land
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is the bifrost significantly better than the E17? Is the price difference justifiable for performance between the E17 and the Bifrost?
   
  I like the E17 a lot but i'm itching to upgrade and it seems like the bifrost is the logical upgrade...or perhaps the ODAC/


----------



## beatmosphere

coming back to the digital question
   
  this could be the answer
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrix-24-bit-96-KHz-USB-Coaxial-spdif-Converter-new-tas1020b-/130612725142  ( +/- US$ 60)
   
  works with ipad CCK
   
  confirmation in this thread
   
  http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?71105-Matrix-USB-to-DCC-converter-for-iPad-24Bit-96khz-24-96
   
  the way to go:
   
  ipad > CCK > Matrix-24-bit-96-KHz-USB-Coaxial-spdif > coax-digital cable > fiio E17 coax adapter > fiio E17 spdif input


----------



## jjacq

Already talked to Bowei but wondering if someone has had the same problem...

 I usually connect my Fiio E17 with the L7 and yesterday when I was reconnecting them together I put it in backwards and then the E17 stopped working. It literally does not turn on or anything but when plugged into the computer it does get recognized but the display won't turn on. When plugged in it is just red and I've already let it charge overnight because I remembered that I turned off the charge when plugged in feature. I've reset the device numerous times and still no response. Is my E17 dead??


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Already talked to Bowei but wondering if someone has had the same problem...
> 
> I usually connect my Fiio E17 with the L7 and yesterday when I was reconnecting them together I put it in backwards and then the E17 stopped working. It literally does not turn on or anything but when plugged into the computer it does get recognized but the display won't turn on. When plugged in it is just red and I've already let it charge overnight because I remembered that I turned off the charge when plugged in feature. I've reset the device numerous times and still no response. Is my E17 dead??


 
  I don't remember you said that you put it in backwards...but either way, with the connection type it does not seem anything would short if you put it in backwards...or even if you broke it......maybe something shorted?...unlikely but just some guesses.


----------



## MattTCG

I thought that I had answered this somewhere but can't find it ATM. Yes, dac to dac the Bifrost is a significant upgrade to the e17. And honestly it should be given the price difference. The bifrost is a dedicated dac and the e17 is a amp/dac, very portable and basically a swiss army knife. 
   
  The short answer is that there is just a huge difference across the entire spectrum when listening on my he400 and d5k.


----------



## elektrosteve

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Make a petition, it should be possible and if enough people want it and sign it...then they may release an optional update.......IF AND ONLY IF it's possible and they feel like it..so give it a try!? If you want one then let it be known and ask FiiO


 
   

 I send feiao a message. How do I start a petition? I need some help


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





elektrosteve said:


> I send feiao a message. How do I start a petition? I need some help


 
  Make a new thread with a poll on it.............may or may not work. As it depends if there is enough people seeing it and what not.


----------



## elektrosteve

Ok, but first I wait for a response from feaio if its even possible.


----------



## Xpress

Hello all,

First of all, thanks to this forum I purchased my first amp (Alpen e17) and replaced my headphones (shure e215) and I am very happy with all of it (connected to an iPhone 4s). 

I have 2 questions :
- what kind of battery is there inside the e17? Can I change by myself in case it becomes weak?
- I tried to connect my iPhone in an apple dock -> L9 LOD -> e17 -> senn hd 595 but doesn't work properly because the IPhone still controls the volume. 

I would like to set me a fixed listening station next to my bed, the only solution I found is to purchase a E9, but I find more easy to put the source in a dock so I don't have to reconnect everything. How do you guys do?

Thanks,

Sorry, English is not my native language....


----------



## JamesFiiO

sorry, the eq is decided by hardware so it can not be upgraded to 1dB step


----------



## JamesFiiO

elektrosteve said:


> Ok, but first I wait for a response from feaio if its even possible.




Sorry we are in a short vacation but I will try to response to you guys


----------



## elektrosteve

Well, maybe in the next model.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





xpress said:


> Hello all,
> First of all, thanks to this forum I purchased my first amp (Alpen e17) and replaced my headphones (shure e215) and I am very happy with all of it (connected to an iPhone 4s).
> I have 2 questions :
> - what kind of battery is there inside the e17? Can I change by myself in case it becomes weak?
> ...


 
  It uses a lithium ion battery. As of this moment there is no found DIY self replacement battery. Another user, sounddreamer I believe took apart his E17 for.....for science of course
   
  Here is his pic!

   
   
  I wouldn't say the battery is insanely or would be insanely hard to find but as the E17 is just barely half a year old. You won't have many people actively trying to find a replacement battery for it themselves already
   
   
   
  2:Omit using the dock...why use it anyway? To stand the iphone up? And..... if the iPhone is in a Dock then that means by the definitoin...of a dock the iphone will be plugged in already with another "Dock" connector to the bottom of the device meaning....you CAN'T have used the L9 with it.
   
  3: Cheap listening station in my room would be
   
  AKG K422
  ipod touch 2G with L9 LOD and FiiO E5 amplifier.


----------



## weitn

Been thinking of getting a case for my E17 for a while. Dropped by at Bestbuy yesteryday and picked up this Wenger case (inside dimensions: 2.5" L x 1" W x 4.25" H). I took the E17 and UBS cable with me and tried fitting them in multiple cases there. This is the best case I found there. It is designed for small digital camera but E17, L9 and USB cable fit nicely in this case.
   
  Wenger case

   
  E17, L9 and USB cable in the Wenger case.

   
  E17, L9 and USB cable in the Wenger case.


----------



## AppleDappleman

So I sold off my E17 and DT770 for a Lyr and HD650. 

 Now I'm selling my Lyr and HD650 because I realized that I enjoy portable much more than my home rig. I'm going to be buying the E17 again along with the GR07 or IE8 (still trying to find an IEM.) 

 What I would like to know is if the new L11 allows the Ipad to work with the E17. I remember before that you can't get it to work, is there a way around that now using the L11?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> So I sold off my E17 and DT770 for a Lyr and HD650.
> 
> Now I'm selling my Lyr and HD650 because I realized that I enjoy portable much more than my home rig. I'm going to be buying the E17 again along with the GR07 or IE8 (still trying to find an IEM.)
> 
> What I would like to know is if the new L11 allows the Ipad to work with the E17. I remember before that you can't get it to work, is there a way around that now using the L11?


 
   
  sorry, L11 will not make the E17 support iPad.


----------



## Xpress

Thank you for all your answers Bowei006. 
I emailed Fiio in order to get some info about replacement battery. 
Now I will try to dig for a cheap listening station for my room, but is true I would appreciate the source to stand up / connect easily to it. 

L9i is the only solution I Know but llmited to iPhone source. Maybe there is a better option out there, an inexpensive. 
I also like L9 because it takes advantage of the e17 I already own but doesn't solve the source issue. Otherwise I need a source that stays connected all the time. Any idea?

Thank you.

(should I create a new thread?)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





xpress said:


> Thank you for all your answers Bowei006.
> I emailed Fiio in order to get some info about replacement battery.
> Now I will try to dig for a cheap listening station for my room, but is true I would appreciate the source to stand up / connect easily to it.
> L9i is the only solution I Know but llmited to iPhone source. Maybe there is a better option out there, an inexpensive.
> ...


 
  If you want to. Go ahead. Ask for other opinions 
   
  A dedicated room unit? How about another iPod with L11 with a good high quality($8) (don't buy super expensive) dual end 3.5mm cable connected to a desktop amp for use in your room? It's stationary?
   
  The E09K has been released for "further intergration" with E17 and isn't an "upgrade" as a intergration" (in the words of CLEIOS)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615915/fiio-e09k-announced-successor-to-e9#post_8485485
   
  but I doubt you need that. E9 prices should drop if you are interested.


----------



## Erviv

I recently got the E17 and the Shure SRH1840's.  You need a FIIO L10 cable to interconnect the ipad cck out - L10 - E17 -headphones.  It worked fine for me.


----------



## lubczyk

Is the bottom of the OLED screen supposed to squeak when I press down on it?


----------



## jruser

Today I got the E17 and the E9 set up. I had a couple of questions:
   
  1. If USB charge is off and it is hooked to USB, does it get its operating power from the battery or from USB? I was wondering if I keep USB charge off if I will have to periodically charge it, or if it will operate indefinitely from the attached USB power.
  2. How sturdy is the dock connector on this and on the E9? My E17 has a lot of play when docked to the E9, both front-to-back and side-to-side. It seems like there may be quite a bit of strain on the dock connector. Would putting rubber feet on the back help this any, or would they impede it from going into the E9?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jruser said:


> Today I got the E17 and the E9 set up. I had a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. If USB charge is off and it is hooked to USB, does it get its operating power from the battery or from USB? I was wondering if I keep USB charge off if I will have to periodically charge it, or if it will operate indefinitely from the attached USB power.
> 2. How sturdy is the dock connector on this and on the E9? My E17 has a lot of play when docked to the E9, both front-to-back and side-to-side. It seems like there may be quite a bit of strain on the dock connector. Would putting rubber feet on the back help this any, or would they impede it from going into the E9?


 
  1:Battery, you will have to charge it later. If you forget to set USB chg to on, it will simply run out of batteries..and thus nothing will stop it from charging.
   
  2:No idea sorry


----------



## IKE60

erviv said:


> I recently got the E17 and the Shure SRH1840's.  You need a FIIO L10 cable to interconnect the ipad cck out - L10 - E17 -headphones.  It worked fine for me.



This doesn't make any sense.

The iPad CCK goes from 30-pin dock connector male to USB A female.

The L10 goes from 30-pin dock connector male to 3.5mm male.

The two are incompatible. The L10 gets you lineout, but not digital.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> This doesn't make any sense.
> The iPad CCK goes from 30-pin dock connector male to USB A female.
> The L10 goes from 30-pin dock connector male to 3.5mm male.
> The two are incompatible. The L10 gets you lineout, but not digital.


 
  I just read it as well and you are right. It doesn't make sense.
   
  You need a power source or something to boost power in the middle between CCK and E17 and a cable to connect the two. The L10 doesn't do that.


----------



## Tilpo

lubczyk said:


> Is the bottom of the OLED screen supposed to squeak when I press down on it?



You're not supposed to press down on a screen, so it should really been an issue if it is not supposed to make that sound.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> You're not supposed to press down on a screen, so it should really been an issue if it is not supposed to make that sound.


 
  I'm sure he was aksing others that also have the device to make sure it's just no him.
   
  There is a screen(glass or plastic or other material) above the OLED panel itself so it's ok to do that..but as far as I remember. Mine didn't make that.


----------



## Erviv

Sorry whether it makes sense or not it works.  Perhaps I should have more clearly stated using the L10 cable connected directly to the ipad, rather than referring to the connection as the cck. However you should have got the idea, as the question was would the E17 work with an ipad or is a separate external power source required.  No external power source is required.  Whether it is digital out, I don't know, but I get music which was the whole point.  Cable out (L10) connected to the Ipad with the ipad connector, and connected to the aux input of the E17.  Headphones out from from the E17. I hear the music from the headphones, so obvioulsy it works. I also use homesharing via itunes to wirelessly send music from itunes on my PC via my ipad.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





erviv said:


> Sorry whether it makes sense or not it works.  Perhaps I should have more clearly stated using the L10 cable connected directly to the ipad, rather than referring to the connection as the cck. However you should have got the idea, as the question was would the E17 work with an ipad or is a separate external power source required.  No external power source is required.  Whether it is digital out, I don't know, but I get music which was the whole point.  Cable out (L10) connected to the Ipad with the ipad connector, and connected to the aux input of the E17.  Headphones out from from the E17. I hear the music from the headphones, so obvioulsy it works. I also use homesharing via itunes to wirelessly send music from itunes on my PC via my ipad.


 
  I think you are still mistaking it.
   
  You are not using iPad connector.. The L10 goes directly into the iPad and then you probably are just plugging the end into the E17's AUX in.
   
  It is not digital. You are getting an analog "stream" straight from the iPad's DAC...well not straight but we won't include all those other little circuits and stuff that do make small differences that huge audiophiles care about
   
  and from that analog stream you are amplifying it with the E17.
   
  I have done the same thing with homesharing. Homesharing uses airplay technology and supports up to CD quality which is 44.1KHz @ 16bit and in lossless and compressed lossless formats. which is quite nice and good enoguh.


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Is the bottom of the OLED screen supposed to squeak when I press down on it?


 
   
  I know mine doesn't do that, I would have noticed it. I'll check later though. God I hate those squeaky issues. O_O


----------



## wahu

My e17 sounds much better out of my desktop than my laptop.. Is this just my imagination? Maybe my laptop's usb ports are underpowered?


----------



## SladeNoctis

Quote: 





wahu said:


> My e17 sounds much better out of my desktop than my laptop.. Is this just my imagination? Maybe my laptop's usb ports are underpowered?


 
  It could be that your desktop has a good DAC compared to your laptop. Correct me if im wrong (haven't been on the forums for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) but even with the E17 it all depends on the sound card of you laptop and PC and what the E17 can improve on top of it.


----------



## SladeNoctis

Just a question, do you guys have a recommended ipod LOD cable, and i have a feeling your going to name a FIIO LOD cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but in my personal experience they don't last very well.


----------



## wahu

Quote: 





sladenoctis said:


> It could be that your desktop has a good DAC compared to your laptop. Correct me if im wrong (haven't been on the forums for a while
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  But i'm using the DAC in my e17 aren't I? I mean it's just plugged into the usb port.. I'm noticing more definition in the bass and more detailed soundstage. Maybe there's more interference near my laptop?


----------



## SladeNoctis

Quote: 





wahu said:


> But i'm using the DAC in my e17 aren't I? I mean it's just plugged into the usb port.. I'm noticing more definition in the bass and more detailed soundstage. Maybe there's more interference near my laptop?


 
  Yea you are, but i mean since e17 is still taking the sound output of your laptop and desktop and improving upon it. Its like adding whip cream on two pies. One pie is baked better than the other pie so even with whip cream improving the taste. The pie that was baked better will still have the better taste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know its a weird comparison. But try this remove the e17 from your desktop and laptop and check if the desktop sounds better. If not then like you mentioned before it could be a usb issue.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sladenoctis said:


> Yea you are, but i mean since e17 is still taking the sound output of your laptop and desktop and improving upon it. Its like adding whip cream on two pies. One pie is baked better than the other pie so even with whip cream improving the taste. The pie that was baked better will still have the better taste.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  ... you aren't ADDING upon what's already there. For most users of the E17, you are bypassing the dac and amp of your sound card/codec/processor etc completely and it's circuitry
   
  Quote: 





wahu said:


> But i'm using the DAC in my e17 aren't I? I mean it's just plugged into the usb port.. I'm noticing more definition in the bass and more detailed soundstage. Maybe there's more interference near my laptop?


 
  Do more testing, at least a week. Use the E17 with laptop for a whole day, use it with desktop the next for the whole day and then move around and try. It is highly that it may be psychological. But betting on the other circuits that send the pcm stream from your hard drive to usb port can also be a part of it. As in the path and parts the stream moves through to reach it's final desitnation of outputing through that USB port and into your device and cable.
   
  If you still feel it's the same then I leave that to your own opinion but please note that updating audio codec and it's accompanying software may help. Be sure to make a system restore POINT(not system restore, make a point to restore TO) before you do your drivers and software. This whole sentence here is more advanced stuff and will and is going to be done at your own risk and I take  no responsibility if you mess up at this part(some do)
   
  Quote: 





sladenoctis said:


> Just a question, do you guys have a recommended ipod LOD cable, and i have a feeling your going to name a FIIO LOD cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  YEs we do. It bypasses the iPod's own internal amplifier (not DAC) and headphone circuitry and allows you to use your own. We often do name them as they are cheap but there are others..but they are about 4X as costly if you want. I don't suppose you have any DIY experience so that's also out. The L11, L3, L9 are all recommended. The L3 annd L9 use the same "high quality" cable from oyaide japan HPC 22W wiring. Which the other FiiO LOD's don't use(lower quality cable..although you may not be able to tell a difference, the price difference is like $2 so just get the higher quality ones) The only differnece between L3 and L9 is the cable shape. L9 is more for ipods as it folds into your amp for a small efficent combo pack and L3 is if the amp is weirdly shaped or has an input that can't work with the L9. The L11 is a new one that also allows you to plug and charge your iPod at the same time(something current fiio LOD's wont allow as you are using the Dock of the ipod already) but it also requires you to buy your own cable. So you could buy a nice $7 3.5mm to 3.5mm male transfer cable if you would like(the input female port on the L!1 should be high quality enough for most audiophile purposes) but if that is too much for you, sticking with the L3 or L9 is fine
   
  Here's FiiOs own cable chart that THEY made(not me):

   
  open in newtab to see it bigger
   
  Quote: 





sladenoctis said:


> It could be that your desktop has a good DAC compared to your laptop. Correct me if im wrong (haven't been on the forums for a while
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No, when plugged in through USB. You are bypassing both the computer's DAC's and amplifiers. But the USB ports and SB you are using are variables.....that unless they have problems(not to often), you won't hear a difference in.
   
  No..... the term soundcard generally means an audio "card" that you plug into PCIE or any other periphreal slots on your mobo. But even if you were to take it to mean audio codec and processor and basically anything your computer uses to output sound.... the E17 more or less bypasses it. It's not 1+1=2 as in you are adding stuff onto it. You are taking one out of the equation and using the other unless you are sending some "surround sound" laced pcm data to the E17.
   
  Quote: 





wahu said:


> My e17 sounds much better out of my desktop than my laptop.. Is this just my imagination? Maybe my laptop's usb ports are underpowered?


 
  It is probably your imagination unless your laptop has some problems in USB and getting a proper PCM stream out with fault parts.


----------



## Erviv

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I think you are still mistaking it.
> 
> You are not using iPad connector.. The L10 goes directly into the iPad and then you probably are just plugging the end into the E17's AUX in.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for clarifyng digital vs not.  I agree I am not using the ipad connector. I also agree the sound is reasonable enough for average listening, which is all I need when using the ipad.


----------



## wahu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Do more testing, at least a week. Use the E17 with laptop for a whole day, use it with desktop the next for the whole day and then move around and try. It is highly that it may be psychological. But betting on the other circuits that send the pcm stream from your hard drive to usb port can also be a part of it. As in the path and parts the stream moves through to reach it's final desitnation of outputing through that USB port and into your device and cable.
> 
> If you still feel it's the same then I leave that to your own opinion but please note that updating audio codec and it's accompanying software may help. Be sure to make a system restore POINT(not system restore, make a point to restore TO) before you do your drivers and software. This whole sentence here is more advanced stuff and will and is going to be done at your own risk and I take  no responsibility if you mess up at this part(some do)
> 
> It is probably your imagination unless your laptop has some problems in USB and getting a proper PCM stream out with fault parts.


 
  I have to concede that it may well be my imagination. I have a macbook so not sure if I can update audio codecs and system restore point etc. If there is a way then I'm sure I can work it out. I mean I've built my own pc and it's a fully functional hackintosh with my own custom boot screen etc. I do remember reading that companies like m-audio were complaining about power output on some macbooks' USB ports so I can look into that as well.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





erviv said:


> Thanks for clarifyng digital vs not.  I agree I am not using the ipad connector. I also agree the sound is reasonable enough for average listening, which is all I need when using the ipad.


 
   
  Quote: 





wahu said:


> I have to concede that it may well be my imagination. I have a macbook so not sure if I can update audio codecs and system restore point etc. If there is a way then I'm sure I can work it out. I mean I've built my own pc and it's a fully functional hackintosh with my own custom boot screen etc. I do remember reading that companies like m-audio were complaining about power output on some macbooks' USB ports so I can look into that as well.


 
  I'm not too sure about it myself as I don't use my Mac as my main computer. But the software updates they roll out usually are what you need and unlike PC's , Mac's are generally very good with drivers and reliability.
   
  There should be enough power on that MAc. Try a different USB port...and even if there wasn't enough power which there shouldn't be it ....probably wouldn't sound like that...but then again, I haven't deal personally with underpowered USB ports
   
  Them compalining about it may be because their devices weren't working as there wasn't enough power or other stuff so maybe. 
   
  But try it and do some tests but like my group says...it's all in your mind. However if you still personally think that I may be wrong then go get yourself a powered USB hub....and see if you can hear it. Have a friend or GF or wife do blind tests. Meaning have them randomly plug and unplug from different computers playing same song in random configs with you blindfolded. 
   





   
  I'm not asking you to get a powered USB hub, just that if you positively feel that there isn't enough power....and that that's why it may sound not as good then that would be a solution to ..do a unscientific test.
   
  Quote: 





erviv said:


> Thanks for clarifyng digital vs not.  I agree I am not using the ipad connector. I also agree the sound is reasonable enough for average listening, which is all I need when using the ipad.


 
  You're welcome.


----------



## IKE60

USB should be bit-perfect, regardless of power levels. The power required for a solid signal across a few feet of cable via USB is really small. If a USB port has power issues, it would be noticed on the +5V wire used for powering devices, not on the data line. Even if your port isn't giving the 150 mA required by the E17, the E17 should just power itself via battery.

Things to check on the desktop/notebook
- Both set to the same output format (24b/96kHz, 16b/48kHz, or 16b/44.1kHz)
- Any and all EQ turned off
- Both volumes at 100% (if controllable)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> USB should be bit-perfect, regardless of power levels. The power required for a solid signal across a few feet of cable via USB is really small. If a USB port has power issues, it would be noticed on the +5V wire used for powering devices, not on the data line.* Even if your port isn't giving the 150 mA required by the E17, the E17 should just power itself via battery.*
> Things to check on the desktop/notebook
> - Both set to the same output format (24b/96kHz, 16b/48kHz, or 16b/44.1kHz)
> - Any and all EQ turned off
> - Both volumes at 100% (if controllable)


 
  I am not too versed in USB but the part in bold. If that was case...then the CCK would work with the E17 as the E17 would simply make up for it with battery power.
   
  Thanks for the last part. I was busy finding what he was doing that I forgot that kind of stuff!
   
  Even if you find that one outputted something else..unless you didn't use tracks that were above 44.1 and then another that was different then it wouldn't matter too much..but even if you did. That wouldn't account for loss of bass impact and all that. It is very hard to tell all the different settings apart.
   
  You can change it by typing "MIDI" in your search bar on your Mac and open the Midi setup thing.


----------



## DGriff0400

what are the best portable players for this amp/dac that will overide the internal dac


----------



## bowei006

Android devices with otg support and the ability to send a digital pcm stream out of a port or a nokia device that does the same. There are not too many


----------



## IKE60

bowei006 said:


> I am not too versed in USB but the part in bold. If that was case...then the CCK would work with the E17 as the E17 would simply make up for it with battery power.



The issue with the CCK & E17 is that the iPad disables the CCK when it senses the high current draw.

I don't know the details of the E17's schematics/design, but methinks the 150mA being drawn is on the +5V line, not the data line.

He could test this by turning USB Charging off - then the power capability of either computer definitely wouldn't matter.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> The issue with the CCK & E17 is that the iPad disables the CCK when it senses the high current draw.
> I don't know the details of the E17's schematics/design, but methinks the 150mA being drawn is on the +5V line, not the data line.
> *He could test this by turning USB Charging off - then the power capability of either computer definitely wouldn't matter.*


 
  The Thread has tried this before and nope. The USB draw ITSELF is too much and past what the iPad's CCK will allow. There has to be a middle man for the E17 to work with the iPad.


----------



## xeroian

bowei006 said:


> The Thread has tried this before and nope. The USB draw ITSELF is too much and past what the iPad's CCK will allow. There has to be a middle man for the E17 to work with the iPad.




Even after disconnecting the 5v wire from the iPad, the iPad still gives a too much power required error. So it is not the actual power draw that gives the problem but rather the protocol discussion between the 2 USB chips in the devices.


----------



## Seneca

I have just bought the e17 and it works well with the USB from my iMac. 

I know I can use the e17 with the optical input from my airport express. What I am not sure how to do is connect the output from the e17 to my quad amplifier. In this set up I only want to use the dac part of the e17. Grateful for some help on this. I have searched forum but couldn't find the solution.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seneca said:


> I have just bought the e17 and it works well with the USB from my iMac.
> I know I can use the e17 with the optical input from my airport express. What I am not sure how to do is connect the output from the e17 to my quad amplifier. In this set up I only want to use the dac part of the e17. Grateful for some help on this. I have searched forum but couldn't find the solution.


 
  "Welcome to headfi! Sorry about your wallet!"
   
  You have to buy a few things first..not expensive so don't worry.
   
  First you need a FiiO L7

   
   
  And then you plug it in like so. The L7 works with the E7 and E17.
   
  You plug the L7 into your dock port of the E17 and then you also need a 3.5mm plug like in the picuture. You need a male plug to plug into the L7 and the other end of that wire will need to be whatever the input you want to use is. If your quad amp accepts and you want to use 3.5mm..then do the same. If it accepts RCA then then a male 3.5mm to male RCA plug cable
   
  Now after this is done play some music and go to the E17, are you able to control the volume(and actually hear it get louder or quieter) or use the EQ option of the E17? If so then you need to set the LO switch to the right position. When this happens your E17 is essentially in variable out meaning your pre amp in the E17 is still engaged, some still like to use EQ of E17 or change volume or have or use the pre amp of a DAC or amp combo as it's just what they want but for you, it seems you want fixed line out which means the e17 will be in use just as a DAC. Well like I said above, find the LO bypass switch on the side of your E17...see it? There will be an up or down position. However way you are looking at it. Flip it to the opposite side. It will then be in fixed line out(unless you mistaked the side it was suppose to switch to, try it a few times if not, as the switch isn't perfectly up or down and may confuse you as it's kinda in the middle for some people) This section of the instructions are for only if you are able to control the EQ and volume.
   
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## Seneca

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to headfi! Sorry about your wallet!"
> 
> You have to buy a few things first..not expensive so don't worry.
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you for your welcome and reply!
   
  As far as I can see the L7 has a usb input but I want to connect my apple airport express (AE) to the E17 using an optical cable, not via usb, so this will not work. 
   
  So this is what I want to achieve:
   
  Imac>>>>>>Airport express>>>>>E17>>>>>Quad amplifier>>>>>>>Speakers
             A                               B                C                             D
   
   
  the connections are as follows A= wireless B= optical cable D= audio cable
   
  My problem is what connection do I use at C so that I only use the DAC part of the E17. Is there a dock which has an optical input or is there another solution?
   
  Many thanks.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seneca said:


> Thank you for your welcome and reply!
> 
> As far as I can see the L7 has a usb input but I want to connect my apple airport express (AE) to the E17 using an optical cable, not via usb, so this will not work.
> 
> ...


 
  Hahaha, don't worry about it. The USB that you see in the picture IS FOR CHARGIN or USB data purposes only. Ok what happens is that when you plug the dock into the E17 or E7...the USB in gets blocked.....that means you can't charge the device and USB input wouldn't be allowed.....as the port is blocked so FiiO added one to the dock to allow you to charge the device or use it as input. With the E17, you can still set input to optical!!!!  USB is the main input most people use so blocking it with a DAC out dock.....would be quite disasterous to the device and especially the E7. And you can't charge it if that happens, so comes the USB in on the L7.  It is easy to get confused! Don't worry.
   
  And I just told you..the FiiO L7 or the E9 or E09K (which are desktop amps that you don't need) are the only devices that you can use to send a fixed line out signal(JUST USE THE DAC) but you don't need the amps so you can only use the L7 like I said..Just switch it to OPT in for input.


----------



## Seneca

Thank you very much for your reply. I now see what you mean! 

I am looking forward to using this great bit of kit with my main amplifier. 

Once again many thanks for our help.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seneca said:


> Thank you very much for your reply. I now see what you mean!
> I am looking forward to using this great bit of kit with my main amplifier.
> Once again many thanks for our help.


 
  It outputs with a 3.5mm input on the L7 so you would need a wire that has a male 3.5mm or 1/8th plug on one end and the other end would be whatever you want to use to input. It could be a variety of things really.
   
  If you start to find this setup finicky then there are desktop DAC's you can get. I personaly would take the E17 with me to so many places that it started being inconvenient as I needed it almost everywhere. A pal of mine Kiteki on here recommends and likes the AK4396 which is sold as a standalone DAC on ebay for $80. It uses the same DAC used in the AudioEngine D1.
   
  I am personally using Dual Wolfson WM 8741's as a DAC only


----------



## dsan

Mine came today and I am very happy with the purchase
  but one thing is bothering me when I change my computer settings to 
  24bit 192k optical line out to Fiio E17,it generates bad noise. Lowering it to 24bit 96k makes it fine again.
   
  Any idea?


----------



## ManShear

I ordered the Matrix USB to SPDIF converter via SGY-NET.  On the USPS tracking website as of the time of this post it says:
   

   Processed Through Sort Facility

   June 30, 2012, 2:26 pm

   ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS) 

    Registered Mail[size=x-small]™[/size]



  Does this mean it has gone through customs and is on its way to my door, or do I need to wait for it to say Departed ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)?
   
  9 days seems like an awful long time to go through customs...


----------



## holleywood25

Quote: 





dsan said:


> Mine came today and I am very happy with the purchase
> but one thing is bothering me when I change my computer settings to
> 24bit 192k optical line out to Fiio E17,it generates bad noise. Lowering it to 24bit 96k makes it fine again.
> 
> Any idea?


 
  Is your buffer too low? If you're around 50 ms in foobar it crackles a lot for me, even on usb.


----------



## Tilpo

holleywood25 said:


> Is your buffer too low? If you're around 50 ms in foobar it crackles a lot for me, even on usb.



Too low buffer generally causes stuttering, but never noise. 

I think it's caused by bad support for 192KHz playback on his computer. Maybe the chip doesn't support it directly, and it tries to upsample it through a bad algorithm. Don't know exactly what the underlying cause is, but it's most likely the optical output of his computer that's at fault. 

When using 24/192 does the E17 correctly display the sampling rate? Or does it still say it's on 96KHz?


----------



## Jackcell

This is going to sound ridiculous, and I don't mean to change the subject, but does it bother anyone else that they chose to go with a card board/paper based packaging vs a Tin box like the e10/e11?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





manshear said:


> I ordered the Matrix USB to SPDIF converter via SGY-NET.  On the USPS tracking website as of the time of this post it says:
> 
> 
> Processed Through Sort Facility
> ...


 
  .... Don't over analyze it. I do it all the time and look at all those special words to make myself think it's alread out....but looking at that. PRocesssed doesn't mean depart usually.
   
  Quote: 





dsan said:


> Mine came today and I am very happy with the purchase
> but one thing is bothering me when I change my computer settings to
> 24bit 192k optical line out to Fiio E17,it generates bad noise. Lowering it to 24bit 96k makes it fine again.
> 
> Any idea?


 
  Seems to be your computer's chip may have a problem? 
   
  If all else fails and you don't know what to do, create a system restore POINT (the point you restore BACK to) and find and update your audio drivers or even South Bridge . Do this at your own risk. Some people can mess it up bad...if you know what to do ...and is patient..it will be fine.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jackcell said:


> This is going to sound ridiculous, and I don't mean to change the subject, but does it bother anyone else that they chose to go with a card board/paper based packaging vs a Tin box like the e10/e11?


 
  Save the enviroment man [size=medium](ღ˘⌣˘ღ)​[/size]

   
   
   
  Every day, my panda brethren are on the face of extinction![size=medium]ಠ▃ಠ ​[/size]FiiO choose to go cardboard whatever to save my borthers(just kidding, [size=medium]t(ツ)_/¯ ​[/size] I don't know) from....abosolute devastating extionction![size=medium]ಥ_ಥ​[/size]
   
  Now everyone![size=medium])･ω･)​[/size]Do the same! Vote, I , Panda! For World peace leader 2020!![size=medium]╚(•⌂•)╝​[/size]
  [size=medium](ღ˘⌣˘ღ)​[/size]
   
   
   


> [This may be the most randomist thing I have ever posted]
> 
> [size=medium]Ȩ̩̱̰̘̱̲ͤ̂͂͂̎̕v̤̮͍͇̝̽ͫ̾ͨ̏ͭ̈́ͅė͖̰͕̐ͥͥ̋͑͑r̶̰̫̼͈͕͉̘̯̆̐̇ͦ̀̿̎͘y̸̼̺ͧ͊ͪ̒́͠ͅ ̼̜͖͈͎̟̙͇͎͑̾̑ͭ̆̃́͘d̼̗̊͒͝a̤͖̭͈̳̓̾ͯ͜ͅͅy̝͍̫̙ͩ͂ͣ̆̑ͬ͛̚͘̕͞,̵̼͔͈̼̙ͭ͝ ̩͉͈̼͚̬ͭ̂̌̑͊ͦͫͤͅm̷̨̗̥͔͔ͫ̈́̆̈ÿ̛̞͈͍̙̜͎́ ̳̩̄͂͡p̸̜̙̤͇̰͂̀ͩͦͭa̡̪̹ͬ͐̀n̥͍̠̟̗̼̬̻ͥ͑̈̋̄͌̄d̴̝̟̖̥͇̙̬̜̜̉̍̓̃̀̚a͕̥̦̤̔̔ͫ̒͂͠͡ ̼͇̥̗̋ͅb̶̷̼̮̤͈̲̱͎͐̃̏ͬ̏ͤ͒r̙͕͎̺̈́͞e͉͇̠̞ͯ͐̍̀̚͟͜t̮̘̰ͬ̈h̐̃͛ͧ͛͋͌̇̕͏̡͕̠̟r̵͖̉̊ͩ̓e̡̲̻̯͕͆̈́̀̃̄ͥ͐̀̕n̴̳̗̽̑́̃̓̐ͣͦ ̴̟̩̙̣̦̮̟̭ͨͥḁ̶̞̮̖͎ͩ͆̑̎͂ͬ̃ͩ́̚͝r̷̼̼̫ͦe̸̡͕͍ͪͫ̅͒̈́͘ ̴̧̩̝̙̭̟̥̹̇ͦ̈ͦo̸̺̤̣͛ͨn̏̋͏̸̜͙̩̲̰̕ͅ ̿ͤ͒̂ͬ҉̡̜̱͎t̛̤̥̞̰ͮ̅͐̆ͅh̞̣ͣͣ͟ễ̖͓̤͇̽͝͡ ͈͉̠̖͕ͭ̓͊̈͑f͖̞̘̲̑ͧ̀͜͟a̸̪͙̻̓ͮͤ̀͟͝c̾̃̑̽̉͑ͧ҉̪̜̺̬ẹ̗̗ͩ̀ͧͭ̇̅ͬͫ͒̀ ̒ͩ̊҉҉̣͍͔͖ơ̮̭̥͙̜͍͍̦̎̔ͥͣf͍̮̠̽͋̏͠ ̠͇̬͎͓̤͎͐ͩͅę͖̫̟͓͈̺̽̈́̆͋ͯ̃̔ͭx̗̊͊ͭ̃̚͜͠͞t̨͓̬̠͍̲͕̊́ͩͩ̚͢i̫̥̪͈̻̒ͧͫ͛͗͂̍̚͘͢n̸͉̪̅ͭͦͦͪͬ͒͞c̵̾̽͏̧͖͉̖͖̲t̏̾̊̂̄ͦ͏̝i̤̤͖͙̰̟̱͑͆ͭͨ̈͂ͯȯ̘n̮ͩ͐̇̀̋!̢ͭͤ̑́̋ͥ̃͏̬̹̙̤̱̻͚̣͖ ͮ͛҉͟҉̮͔ͅF̹̗̤̳̰ͦ̈́ͫ̓ͣ̒́͝į̧̦̙͍͔͖̳͖͂ͤ̐i͕̜̍̐ͪ̏̾ͧͪ͂̕͢O̖͈̓̐ ̫̰̥͒̐c͖̺̞̫̱͈ͮͬͅh̴̭̝̭̠͙̃̽̽ͬ̈́o̡͎̯̞̐̐ͤͧͦ͛̍̚ö̰̬̪̲̜́͋s͓̗̤̮̾̂ͤͨ͌̍e̺̘̊ ͉̺̼̘̓̾͑̐͛̐̊̏͆t̶̡̬̘͈̫̙̣̄ͤͧ̒ͦ͆ͅo̶̗͕̬̗̘̬̓̆̽ ̣͈̓̋̓̄̽̚͘g̒͂͘҉͎̱͚̙̖o̩̻̓͗͂ͧ̽̋ͬ̅ͭ̕ ͚͉̞̬ͦ͆́͗̃́͞c͔͙̪̬̻̰̯̲̖̎͂̒ͣ̆͂å̳̲̤ͫ̍͊̉ͦ̓r̡̫̞̰̋͂͗̓ͦ̾̕͞d̯̻̰̮̪̯̞̊ͨ͟ḅ̛̣͈̆̆͡ó͉̼̯͗̓̍ͬ͛̈ͥ̈́a̗͑́ȑ̷̫̣̩͕ͭ͑ͧ̀͜d̫͉͍̲͈̜̳̊̀̆͟͝ͅ ͖̗ͬͯ̈́ͫ͒̃ͯ͛́w̞͕͈̼̼̤͗̐͋̄ͬ͟hͦ͋ͪ̂҉͙̦̥̳͚ͅa̭̯ͮ͘͠t̴͚̼͔̙̻̯͙̹̎͑̿̂͒e̠̣̗̮͕̠ͭ̐ͮͯ̓͋ͣ͑ͅv̶̧̥̠͓͓̲̟̬͗̈́͒͗̀ͤē̶̡̺͈̬̹͇̣̠ͨ͘ͅr̹̜̐̍͠ ̹̹͈͓̼͉͙͙̥͗̏͛ͥ̓͊͆͌̔ṭ̡̺̦̲ͩ͋̑̾ͅo̵̜̮̱ͨͮͧ̿͑̂͑̿ͥ ̴̴̻ͮ͗̽̌͑ͣ́ͫ́s̘̯͍̪͈͇͈̄̑̀ͩͥͣ̀a̝̣̙͚͎̻ͧͪ̉͐͗̉v̨̢̬̗͇͖̔̽ͅę̸͍̟̘̈̄́ ͇̻̼̭̱͎͕̟̩͌̀͆̑ͫ̓͑̐͟ṁ̧̺̐͆͋ͬ̈́̚̕y̘͔ͮ͂͊̾̍̃̓ͫ̂ ̵̤̝̣́̂ͭ̎̐̄̄ͨ͟b̧̘̣̬̲̬̟̝̲̎ͨ̐ͪ̐̈̒ͅǒ̦͈̖̩̻̘͠ͅͅr̩̹̾̅̊́̋͒ţ̼͔̤͓͔̽͋ͨh̘̦̪̗ͣͯ̅̉́e̷͓̻̖̫̠͖̪͕͗̓ͩͭ̆ͯ̇ͨ͟ř͔̜̎̀ś̰̪̜͂͘͠(̨̹̙̠ͤ̍̓̀̅ͪ̒̀j̸͇̬̝̹̱͉̲̹͒́̑̈u̷̸̖͌ͪͦs̡̤̳̤̫̗͔͗̀t͐͏̪̪̘͓̱͘͢ ̢͙̤̬̣͇̗̄̈́͂̔̿͗̾ͤ́k̢̳̞͚̮ͮ̆ͨͫ̑̃̄ĩ̅̽̉̔ͮͭ̏҉̝d̝̯̮̘̼̠̋̔͢d̸̩̠̖͖͖̤̝͎̉ͮͣ͗͐ͥi̷̘͚̭̥̙͂̚̚͟͞ͅn͇̯͖̤̳̺͈̲̈́ġ͓́,̗̜͎̯̩̣̭ͤ̊ͬ ̜̥͙̻͍̣ͫͧ̎̒͜I̳͙͍͍̦͕̰͛̒̄ͩͫ̉ͥ ̵͈̩̤͙̹̺̯̺ͬ̃͗̇ͤ̆͠d͔͓͖̪̿̾o̧ͦ̂̌ͧͧͯ̄́̊҉̰͕̪͓̳̦́ñ̩̀ͥ͆ͅ'̠̲͉͕̽́̉̂̏̏̈́̃͞t̄ͧͩ̑̾̈́̅̃̾҉̼̣̜̙͓ ̶͎̭̰͇̼͈͈̣̅ͤͭ͒̊̈́ͫ̚͘k̶͎̪͎͔̈́̀n̾͛̇̄̐͑ͩ͠҉̸̪͙̝̝̝ỏ̖͉͖̗̤̰̊̀w͖͖̺̦̝̩ͤ͌̃̅)ͯ͛͛҉͏͉͕̬̙͢ ̡̱͓̓̎ͪ͌f͉̞ͦ̄̆̓ͫͣ̿͘͟r̸̹͖̰͉͆̊ͥ̿͛ͣ͗̀o̜͚̟͚̦̪̦̔̓̑̅ͤ͝m͓̹̲̩͕̲͖͗̾.̢͕̮͇̜̣̥̪̭͎̑̋͝.̡͓̮̲͇̜̑͂̽ͩ͊ͨ.̵̶͙̈́ͮͪ͋̇ͤ͐̚.̈͐̐̄́̇͂͂ͨ͜҉̖̥̝̭͇̺ͅͅa̠̪̘͉̩̳ͪͩ̎ḅ̧̹͚̪̙̻̹͕̋ͧ̽̈́̊͗̎o̓́̀͒͏̵̢̜̠̬̹͍̣̦ş̵̤̪̳̐ͩ̄ͦ̐o̗̝ͣ̓̔͊̽̕l̥͈̣̫̖̓̒̊ͤ̈͗ͫ͞u̮̙͒͞t̷͚̹̊ͯ̇̕e̵̤̝͈͍͛̑̿̉̽ ̵̨̹̦̩̖̦͈̇̌͟d̴̡͚̪̾́ͧ̎ͤ̒ͧ̑ͬ͜ę̵̟̳͚̂ͯ͆v̛̱̖͙̇̌̍̉͟ã̡̫̼̩͓̟̜͎̤ͫ̔͝s̸̘̘̓t̡͈̤̤͎ͥ̊ͭ̉ą͔̳̭̺͉͍̤̣̞̽́ͣ̈͟͠t̵̨͉̺͚͎̫̙̉ͮi̟̽̔̋ͩ̆͝ñ̫̲͚ͭ̈́́ͭͤͬ̈́͠g̷̞͍̳̜̦̰̈́̂̐̌̐͗͐̆͢ ̦̣͎̝͚̻̱̭̿ͣ̏ͫe̷̪͖̒̇ͥ̋̃ͥ͞x̗̲̥͕̖̟̋̈ͪͨ͑ͪ̋̉͋t̬͖̙̟͇̎͂̒͌ͪi̧̡̦̼͖̦̯̣͂̇̂͂́o̶͔͙͈̘̮̞̊ͨ̑̌̒ͭ̑͟ͅn̶͇̭̫̝̳͕̞͎ͮ͛̽̊c̹̰̜̺͍̤̆̒̊ͯ̏̾́͢ͅt̳̘̲̊̓͐̋̎ͦȋ̖̞̖̣̞̼̩̦̭͒̋ͫͫ̓ô̴̴̺̻̹̟̘̗͒̾͒̀͐n̻̖̞̺̓͗̊̓̓̑ͪ̀̚!̗̱̥̦͎͇͊̐̀͒[/size][size=medium][/size]
> [size=medium]̸͖̬̘̯͔̲̝ͥͭͤ̽̓̎͡ ̱͇̟̝̳͉̎̌̌̋̀́[/size][size=medium][/size]
> ...


----------



## Jackcell

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Save the enviroment man
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Certainly the most random I have ever read. Lol.
   
  But in all seriousness, for a guy who is on the fence between the e17 and getting an e11+e10, the boxing might make a difference. I know that sounds utterly stupid, but when I like to take stuff on the road or transport it, having a metal box always seems better than a cardboard one. 
   
  ^[This stuff I said right here just made me laugh. You don't fully realize how stupid an idea you have is until you type it out on a forum for stranger around the world to read.]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jackcell said:


> Certainly the most random I have ever read. Lol.
> 
> But in all seriousness, for a guy who is on the fence between the e17 and getting an e11+e10, the boxing might make a difference. I know that sounds utterly stupid, but when I like to take stuff on the road or transport it, having a metal box always seems better than a cardboard one.
> 
> ^[This stuff I said right here just made me laugh. You don't fully realize how stupid an idea you have is until you type it out on a forum for stranger around the world to read.]


 
  No.. go requote it. I added emoticons! [size=medium]ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)​[/size]
   
  I see your point Jacky. Dr Dre and others also say and believe that boxing is incredibly a deal breaker. Because when people walk into a store, and see it. And ask their mommies and dadies to buy it or because it looks soooooo cooo.
   
  So when you walk by that E17.............. and that's where the logic breaks down. The majority of us here will never see an E17 being sold in an authorized brick and mortar store.
  2:That casing is actually of strong cardboard and the E17 already has a little soft baggie[size=medium](╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻​[/size]


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## Jackcell

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> No.. go requote it. I added emoticons! [size=medium]ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)​[/size]
> 
> I see your point Jacky. Dr Dre and others also say and believe that boxing is incredibly a deal breaker. Because when people walk into a store, and see it. And ask their mommies and dadies to buy it or because it looks soooooo cooo.
> 
> ...


 
  Sadly, Idk how to re quote.
   
  Also Dr Dre and I have many things in common (besides the proclivity toward steroids and over priced head phones) so I'm happy you noticed that. Lol
   
  But in all seriousness, I'd imagine that walking into the store, the E17 packaging would be more appealing due to it displaying the product more. I was really just talking from a Usefulness perspective. But honestly, now that I think about it, and also have read about it, The E17 is equal ,if not superior, to the e10+e11 combo. 
   
  As a side note I watched your unboxing video. Good stuff.


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





jackcell said:


> This is going to sound ridiculous, and I don't mean to change the subject, but does it bother anyone else that they chose to go with a card board/paper based packaging vs a Tin box like the e10/e11?


 
   
  Given that my E7 arrived (from Amazon) looking like this then it is a little concerning.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> Given that my E7 arrived (from Amazon) looking like this then it is a little concerning.


 
  Sorry, for laughing at that haha. It's funny even now.[size=medium](✌ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞​[/size]
  Quote: 





jackcell said:


> Sadly, Idk how to re quote.
> 
> Also Dr Dre and I have many things in common (besides the proclivity toward steroids and over priced head phones) so I'm happy you noticed that. Lol
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you [size=medium](ღ˘⌣˘ღ) ​[/size][size=medium](ღ˘⌣˘ღ) ​[/size][size=medium](ღ˘⌣˘ღ)​[/size]

   
  [size=medium](ღ˘⌣˘ღ)​[/size]


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## Mech0z

I am a bit in doubt, is there any difference between me using a SPDIF cable from my motherboard into my old trusty Harman Kardon AVR 4500 and then putting my headphones (HD555) into that compared to buying a unit like this sound quality wise?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mech0z said:


> I am a bit in doubt, is there any difference between me using a SPDIF cable from my motherboard into my old trusty Harman Kardon AVR 4500 and then putting my headphones (HD555) into that compared to buying a unit like this sound quality wise?


 
  You should be in doubt. It's hard to compare receivers to something like this. It of course depends on what you have in your receiver, as in it's audio parts and efficency and intergration of those parts. It could have nice spec'd parts inside but if it didn't intergrate it well or has a design error(Don't think that just because it's a brand or a brand that owns AKG that there won't be any, that's a misconception) then it could have problems not to mention the signal path. From the input to output, if there are design flaws there or not hooked up for audio or headphone purpsoes then there could be problems.
   
  There are honestly way too many receivers out there and specific variants of those said receivers to really give you a definite sound quality different schpiel.
   
  Now...panda's....
   
  Look at this panda...be distracted, and worry no more
 [size=medium](✌ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞​[/size]
  [size=medium]This is my cousin! His name is Little Pow! Say hi!​[/size]
   
   
  Haven't closed out the page yet? I see you're still worrying....here's another panda pic to ease you:
[size=medium](ღ˘⌣˘ღ)​[/size]
  [size=medium]And these here are my nephews! From top to bottom and left to right they are Bow, Biobear, dito, lito! ​[/size][size=medium](•‿•)​[/size]


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## Tilpo

mech0z said:


> I am a bit in doubt, is there any difference between me using a SPDIF cable from my motherboard into my old trusty Harman Kardon AVR 4500 and then putting my headphones (HD555) into that compared to buying a unit like this sound quality wise?



Like bowei said, it really depends. 
Some receivers are excellent, others not so much. From what I've quickly gathered about the AVR 4500, it's definitely not one of the cheapest units. (I saw some people talking about it saying it'd cost €700). So probably the audio output on the headphones is fine.

One thing you can always test: with the potentiometer at normal volume, do you hear any background noise or hiss? If you do, then first check if it's properly grounded, and if it still persists then it definitely means there is quite a bit of merit in getting something better. 

However, given that you're pairing them with an HD555 I wouldn't buy the E17 unless your receiver is really bad. There is no real point in having an amplifier/DAC that costs more than the actual headphone, especially in entry level headphones. If you want better sounds you're probably better of getting better headphones first, if you still crave for more you can upgrade the amp if you so wish. But in general, the diminishing marginal returns of amplifiers and DAC's is much greater than with headphones at any price point.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Like bowei said, it really depends.
> Some receivers are excellent, others not so much. From what I've quickly gathered about the AVR 4500, it's definitely not one of the cheapest units. (I saw some people talking about it saying it'd cost €700). So probably the audio output on the headphones is fine.
> One thing you can always test: with the potentiometer at normal volume, do you hear any background noise or hiss? If you do, then first check if it's properly grounded, and if it still persists then it definitely means there is quite a bit of merit in getting something better.
> However, given that you're pairing them with an HD555 I wouldn't buy the E17 unless your receiver is really bad. There is no real point in having an amplifier/DAC that costs more than the actual headphone, especially in entry level headphones. If you want better sounds you're probably better of getting better headphones first, if you still crave for more you can upgrade the amp if you so wish. But in general, the diminishing marginal returns of amplifiers and DAC's is much greater than with headphones at any price point.


 
  Considerign you only have HD555's and the receiver is by HK(owner of AKG, although that in a sense only makes it a bit better) and the receiver is very costly.....do the stuff Rikkun(Tilpo) said to do and if it all checks out well. You probably won't need the E17.....but if you are really curious. Wait a month and see if you can snag one for $100 USD if you are really really curious.
   
  IT's ok if you don't see this message today...my panda's may have cuddled you away but just know......the panda..is in everyone.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Considerign you only have HD555's and the receiver is by HK(owner of AKG, although that in a sense only makes it a bit better) and the receiver is very costly.....do the stuff Rikkun(Tilpo) said to do and if it all checks out well. You probably won't need the E17.....but if you are really curious. Wait a month and see if you can snag one for $100 USD if you are really really curious.
> 
> IT's ok if you don't see this message today...my panda's may have cuddled you away but just know......the panda..is in everyone.



Nothing wrong with Harman Kardon. They make fine receivers as far as I know.


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## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Nothing wrong with Harman Kardon. They make fine receivers as far as I know.


 
  I was just adding some precaution that brand name doesn't equal everything is fine and dandy in the receiver. I have heard of Denon's having audio problems and Yamaha's(I own two of them worth $800 each) and etc. Take Nuforce's amp/dac problems for example.
   
  the panda goes where the panda sees....but only his destiny, is revealed.To those...that carry the light of Azarath!


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> I was just adding some precaution that brand name doesn't equal everything is fine and dandy in the receiver. I have heard of Denon's having audio problems and Yamaha's(I own two of them worth $800 each) and etc. Take Nuforce's amp/dac problems for example.
> 
> the panda goes where the panda sees....but only his destiny, is revealed.To those...that carry the light of Azarath!



That's why I suggested to look for hiss. If there isn't any, then at least it's not horrible.


----------



## Mech0z

You might wanna check that Panda syndrom out, but anyway thanks for the answers, I will replace the Headphones before anything else if I do it, not sure if my ears can hear any difference though I am pretty happy with my HD 555, will properly just get HD 558 when these fall apart


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





holleywood25 said:


> Is your buffer too low? If you're around 50 ms in foobar it crackles a lot for me, even on usb.


 
   
  I use foobar but my buffer is default at 1000
  I tried increasing it but no differences


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Too low buffer generally causes stuttering, but never noise.
> I think it's caused by bad support for 192KHz playback on his computer. Maybe the chip doesn't support it directly, and it tries to upsample it through a bad algorithm. Don't know exactly what the underlying cause is, but it's most likely the optical output of his computer that's at fault.
> When using 24/192 does the E17 correctly display the sampling rate? Or does it still say it's on 96KHz?


 
   
  I use Dell XPS 15 JBL. I think the laptop supports 192 but for some reason it doesnt output correctly
   
  it does display 24 192 on my fiio. I also realised at some 24bit high rates, there is a small tick noise every few seconds.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dsan said:


> I use Dell XPS 15 JBL. I think the laptop supports 192 but for some reason it doesnt output correctly
> 
> it does display 24 192 on my fiio. I also realised at some 24bit high rates, there is a small tick noise every few seconds.


 
  Try other media players like winamp and mediamonkey, rechkec windows audio settings in case something is enabled or not enabled in there etc etc.
   
  And then if all else fails, create a system restore point and update audio drivers or even southbridge drivers and check for info on your audio codec/chip/ etc etc.
   
  And you are sure there's an optical out right? S/PDIF? Just making sure. (although it seems you are plugging it in right)
   
  On the system restore point and driver update: I panda take no responsibility for you messing up at this update. Whilst any problems are rare, they can happen. You will do it at your own partaking. 
   
  A panda does not walk. It is, however the motion and act of walking that a panda partakes on. To create, what is known as a panda walk. But thou shalt not be confused with what a regular walk shall bequeath as opposed to a panda walk


----------



## rainbowkrash

Whenever I install the drivers for my e17 on my desktop (windows xp 32bit), and i try and listen to ANY audio from any source (youtube, foobar, winamp, itunes, anything), it immediately crashes my computer. no bsod, nothing. just straight crash and reboot. whats the deal, and how can i fix this? its really frustrating as i found out AFTER i bought my e17 that it wouldent work with my tf201 tablet, my htc evo3d, and now it doesnt even work with my computer? im super bummed!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rainbowkrash said:


> Whenever I install the drivers for my e17 on my desktop (windows xp 32bit), and i try and listen to ANY audio from any source (youtube, foobar, winamp, itunes, anything), it immediately crashes my computer. no bsod, nothing. just straight crash and reboot. whats the deal, and how can i fix this? its really frustrating as i found out AFTER i bought my e17 that it wouldent work with my tf201 tablet, my htc evo3d, and now it doesnt even work with my computer? im super bummed!


 
  "Welcome to headfi! Sorry about your wallet"  Thanks for taking the time to change the avatar as well as it's your first post. I like a little effort in personalization.
  You mean whenever the drivers automatically instal?
   
  See that your settings are correct. But if not, then delete the drivers, unplug the E17 and replug it. Try it with different computers first though.
   
  IT does work with your Tablet and phone. Through AUX out. If you were expecting it to work as a DAC then that is your own fault for the lack of research done.
   
  Try differnt ports on your PC or with other computers. Remember to change default playback to the E17 through USB, that your E17 is set to the right input which will say "USB" on the screen and that your playback settings are correct and aren't crazy. Set playback settings to 44.1KHz at 16bit. If it's set at 192KHz then that will be a major problem as USB on the e17 uses Class 1 drivers and does not support 192KHz playback. Only S/PDIF on the E17 does.
   
  A panda's bark does not represent the bamboo that it chews on. But the bark of the bamboo chews on the panda itself. If not done right, but with the bark on the right tree. The panda can eat the bark.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to headfi! Sorry about your wallet"  Thanks for taking the time to change the avatar as well as it's your first post. I like a little effort in personalization.



You're leaving out the fact that Rainbowdash is depicted in his avatar.


----------



## lightningfarron

my fiio e17 have arrived today. first impression is that the fiio e17 is smaller than i thought. im amazed by how this dac/amp combo sound from my PC,it have a bit more detail than my ibasso d-zero and a bit warmer too IMO. i think its really worth it for its price. anyone knows where to check the new firmware for the e17?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lightningfarron said:


> my fiio e17 have arrived today. first impression is that the fiio e17 is smaller than i thought. im amazed by how this dac/amp combo sound from my PC,it have a bit more detail than my ibasso d-zero and a bit warmer too IMO. i think its really worth it for its price. anyone knows where to check the new firmware for the e17?


 
  Only one has been released and it's an optional one.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615404/downloading-and-installation-guide-for-fiio-e17-asio-driver-the-beta-version
   
  Quote: 





tilpo said:


> You're leaving out the fact that Rainbowdash is depicted in his avatar.


 
  We are part of the Official Anime thread, not the My Little Pony thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! LOL


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> We are part of the Official Anime thread, not the My Little Pony thread  ! LOL



I am.

In fact, I created it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> I am.
> In fact, I created it.


 
  I was going to call B.S....before I looked and went
   

   
   
  Wow.......our members have been everywhere....... Joe with his old SWAT teams and EQ threads and all.


----------



## wje

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I was just adding some precaution that brand name doesn't equal everything is fine and dandy in the receiver._* I have heard of Denon's having audio problems and Yamaha's(I own two of them worth $800 each) and etc. *_Take Nuforce's amp/dac problems for example.
> 
> the panda goes where the panda sees....but only his destiny, is revealed.To those...that carry the light of Azarath!


 
   
  I currently have 3 Yamaha pieces.  All three are 2-channel stereo items.  One is an integrated amplifier and the other two are receivers.  Two are from the latest model line-up and one is from the last generation that was retired less than 2 years ago.  All of my Yamaha pieces have outstanding headphone sections.  I feed them with Squeezebox devices, which feature Burr-Brown DACs.  Though one of my Squeezebox devices is the "Touch" and I'm not sure which DAC was used in that device.
   
  I was actually surpirsed at how good the sound was.  They do an excellent job of driving my HifiMAN headphones, too.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





wje said:


> I currently have 3 Yamaha pieces.  All three are 2-channel stereo items.  One is an integrated amplifier and the other two are receivers.  Two are from the latest model line-up and one is from the last generation that was retired less than 2 years ago.  All of my Yamaha pieces have outstanding headphone sections.  I feed them with Squeezebox devices, which feature Burr-Brown DACs.  Though one of my Squeezebox devices is the "Touch" and I'm not sure which DAC was used in that device.
> 
> I was actually surpirsed at how good the sound was.  They do an excellent job of driving my HifiMAN headphones, too.


 
  This is blasphemous of me. But I have never used them for headphone audio. They are sitting downstairs...the Denon broke and I never bothered to hear it and now we have a Yamaha we bought a few years ago. I've more or less neglected them for audio.


----------



## kenman345

The tip just came off my optical converter inside the FiiO E17.....only about a week old and had just got it set up to use with my TV and CIEM's and it breaks. What do I do guys? I cant fish it out. The bottom one is the broken one, the top one is the one that came with the E17


----------



## IKE60

kenman345 said:


> The tip just came off my optical converter inside the FiiO E17.....only about a week old and had just got it set up to use with my TV and CIEM's and it breaks. What do I do guys? I cant fish it out.



DISCLAIMER: do this at your own risk. I'm not responsible.

If you can't get a really small set of tweezers in there, this is what I would try: Put the tiniest dot of superglue on the broken end of the connector, push it into the E17, wait 30 seconds or so, and pull it out. You will definitely want to use the more gel-like superglue - the liquidy stuff will probably drip and make the connector stick to the E17 jack.

This is probably a really bad idea, but it's the only thing that came to mind.


----------



## kenman345

It's less than two weeks old, i'm not even attempting to put glue near it. I emailed FiiO immediately. Hoping to hear a good response
  Quote: 





ike60 said:


> DISCLAIMER: do this at your own risk. I'm not responsible.
> If you can't get a really small set of tweezers in there, this is what I would try: Put the tiniest dot of superglue on the broken end of the connector, push it into the E17, wait 30 seconds or so, and pull it out. You will definitely want to use the more gel-like superglue - the liquidy stuff will probably drip and make the connector stick to the E17 jack.
> This is probably a really bad idea, but it's the only thing that came to mind.


----------



## bowei006

Is that FiiO's mini Toslink to Toslink adapter? If so then contacting them would be best, as it's only 2 weeks old.
   
  Another member had a problem with the "glass" falling out. Those Toslink adapters came from an OEM of course. I bought a adapter from monoprice that was, I think 100% exactly the same so it might be that the OEM may have some issues possibly. But then again, like CLIEOS's post, there will always be a percentage of error.


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Is that FiiO's mini Toslink to Toslink adapter? If so then contacting them would be best, as it's only 2 weeks old.
> 
> Another member had a problem with the "glass" falling out. Those Toslink adapters came from an OEM of course. I bought a adapter from monoprice that was, I think 100% exactly the same so it might be that the OEM may have some issues possibly. But then again, like CLIEOS's post, there will always be a percentage of error.


 
   
  Just curious. Do you work for Fiio?
  You reply to every comments in this thread and have that Panda identity thing


----------



## MattTCG

Is there any theoretical or real improvement in switching from usb to toslink?
   
  Just wondering...


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> Is there any theoretical or real improvement in switching from usb to toslink?
> 
> Just wondering...




No, not really.


----------



## bowei006

@dsan
No, my panda sanctuary is Head fi itself. I look at every subscription thread.

@matt
Ill send you a video later on this subject that I made.


----------



## Tilpo

matttcg said:


> Is there any theoretical or real improvement in switching from usb to toslink?
> 
> Just wondering...



Theoretically jitter should be lower, depending on the USB receiver chip used. But the jitter induced distortions should be far below the level of normal noise in both cases, so it's inaudible.


----------



## ManShear

I am very happy to report that I received the Matrix USB to SPDIF Converter this morning and I am now listening to 24bit/96kHz FLAC files on my iPad using the E17.  Sounds Glorious!!!  No distortion and no powered USB hub.
   
  Oh, and it only hurt my wallet a little bit relative to everything else head-fi...


----------



## tigersinacage

So, I just got the Beyer DT880's (250ohm) and a Fiio E17 amp, but I'm having a bit of an issue.
   
  To get to a pretty loud and full (but not ear blasting) level, the Fiio has to be turned up to around 55 on 12db, but around there it starts to peak and distort slightly. When it is set to 6db, it has to be on max, which is 60. Which is a pretty nice level, quite loud. Just seems very strange that it has to be on max volume to achieve that level.
   
  Does that sound right to you, or is the E17 just not powerful enough to drive the 250ohm DT880's? I'm trying to work out if there is a defect with something, or that's just how loud they go.
   
  This is running through USB-DAC to my Macbook (96khz - 24bit) with volume max on the laptop. All files are FLAC, with the lowest quality I've tried being 320k.
   
  Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> So, I just got the Beyer DT880's (250ohm) and a Fiio E17 amp, but I'm having a bit of an issue.
> 
> To get to a pretty loud and full (but not ear blasting) level, the Fiio has to be turned up to around 55 on 12db, but around there it starts to peak and distort slightly. When it is set to 6db, it has to be on max, which is 60. Which is a pretty nice level, quite loud. Just seems very strange that it has to be on max volume to achieve that level.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Check "Audio Midi Setup" to see if your things are down. This may be similar but hold the "option" key and click on the volume control in the upper right hand(default) corner. The "advanced" or extended options should drop down. Hit Sound Preferences. See if anything is being limited there as well or raise it.
   
  Ex pic:



  This is what audio midi setup looks like.
   
   
  So you are going:
  Macbook Pro-->E17(with USB input)-->HEadphones 
  right? Your wording was a bit weird.
   
  Are there any other programs that may affect this?
   
*Try this with an iPod or another source, be it through AUX in or anything and see if it gets loud enough. Try with a different comptuer and iPod, USB in and AUX in, getting your PMP and doing aux in(with the pmp on max) should work just fine to test this out.*
   
*Most have said the E11 is fine and has enough power for this(250ohm beyers) but how "loud" something gets really depends on the user.*
   
*Are you listening to oldies or classical? With Foobar and even iTunes, you should be able to do "sound check" as iTunes calls it or Foobar's own extension to "raise" the volume of the songs. I would sometimes max to 60 on my Q701's when I play classical and classic rock songs.*
   
*T*he bolded parts are probably what is happening, but check the top part as well.


----------



## MattTCG

I agree with bowei, the e17 at +12 will rock the socks off the dt880's. You would not be able to keep them on your head at that volume. Go through the control panel, sound and check the volume properties of each playback device. It has to be turned way down somewhere.
   
  gL!!


----------



## bowei006

> I agree with bowei, the e17 at +12 will rock the socks off the dt880's. You would not be able to keep them on your head at that volume. Go through the control panel, sound and check the volume properties of each playback device. It has to be turned way down somewhere.
> 
> gL!!


 
   

  I initially thought that, but it could also be perception or personal thinking of loudness along with oldies songs that are farily quiet and don't max out the dynamic range (without clipping) like current gen songs do.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Check "Audio Midi Setup" to see if the master volume is down. This may be similar but hold the "option" key and click on the volume control in the upper right hand(default) corner. The "advanced" or extended options should drop down. Hit Sound Preferences. See if anything is being limited there as well or raise it.
> 
> So you are going:
> Macbook Pro-->E17(with USB input)-->HEadphones
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks for the reply. Yeah, sorry that is exactly how I'm linking them up via DAC.. I've tried with an iPad and AUX on the Fiio (Which is pretty damn quiet, even maxed out at everything, but adequate) I've also just tried using the 3.5mm cable provided and running it that way to the Macbook. Little bit louder, but not by much.
   
  Currently no programs affecting the sound, I've tried a few different FLAC players. Vox, VLC, and I'm using Enqeue at the moment.
   
  It's definitely got me baffled though! I'm thinking something is up, cos there's no way it should have to be on max settings. Also, the fact that it's peaking has me worried a bit. I shouldn't have to turn it up to the point where it is even close to peaking. Even the E11 that I previously had with Ultrasone Pro 900's didn't distort once.
   
  Confused, to say the least!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yeah, sorry that is exactly how I'm linking them up via DAC.. I've tried with an iPad and AUX on the Fiio (Which is pretty damn quiet, even maxed out at everything, but adequate) I've also just tried using the 3.5mm cable provided and running it that way to the Macbook. Little bit louder, but not by much.
> 
> Currently no programs affecting the sound, I've tried a few different FLAC players. Vox, VLC, and I'm using Enqeue at the moment.
> 
> ...


 
  I updated my post:
   
  
 *Are you listening to oldies or classical? With Foobar and even iTunes, you should be able to do "sound check" as iTunes calls it or Foobar's own extension to "raise" the volume of the songs. I would sometimes max to 60 on my Q701's when I play classical and classic rock songs.*
  
 I think that this is what you are doing maybe. With the oldies songs, it is quite a predicament as it takes more power to amplify the song to the volumes that one desires. There are programs and or extensions to help rectify this though.
  
 The E17 has that cliccking and distortion problem when you start maxing out stuff, it happens sometimes and goes away.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I updated my post:
> 
> 
> *Are you listening to oldies or classical? With Foobar and even iTunes, you should be able to do "sound check" as iTunes calls it or Foobar's own extension to "raise" the volume of the songs. I would sometimes max to 60 on my Q701's when I play classical and classic rock songs.*
> ...


 
   
   
 Definitely not listening to oldies or classical haha, I've pretty much exclusively been listening to Radiohead, Mount Kimbie, Bonobo, Groove Armada, with some John Mayer thrown in.
  
 Here's a screenshot of what my Audio-Midi page looks like:


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Definitely not listening to oldies or classical haha, I've pretty much exclusively been listening to Radiohead, Mount Kimbie, Bonobo, Groove Armada, with some John Mayer thrown in.
> 
> Here's a screenshot of what my Audio-Midi page looks like:


 
  Can you try it with iTunes or a music player that you haven't used before? As in put a song into iTunes (an MP3, if all yours are FLAC)
   
  But it could just be that your perception of loudness differs from the others that owned teh Beyer and said it was loud enough.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Can you try it with iTunes or a music player that you haven't used before? As in put a song into iTunes (an MP3, if all yours are FLAC)
> 
> But it could just be that your perception of loudness differs from the others that owned teh Beyer and said it was loud enough.


 
  Yes, I think you may be right. I've literally just returned my Ultrasone Pro 900's, had about a week with them, and they were so easy to drive. Never really turned it up to max with the previous amp I had, which was an E11. Maybe I just have to get used to the way the Beyers are driven.
   
  Played a few albums in iTunes and there's one album that is 320k, that is a LOT louder than quite a few of my FLAC albums. Maybe I've just acquired some less than perfect FLAC rips.


----------



## Tilpo

Also, make sure that you don't have anything like ReplayGain enabled. Or if you do, remember to add a volume boost too. 
ReplayGain (and whatever the Apple counterpart is) can make loudly mastered music 10-15dB softer. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the FLAC albums you were talking about have RG tags without you even realizing it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Yes, I think you may be right. I've literally just returned my Ultrasone Pro 900's, had about a week with them, and they were so easy to drive. Never really turned it up to max with the previous amp I had, which was an E11. Maybe I just have to get used to the way the Beyers are driven.
> 
> Played a few albums in iTunes and there's one album that is 320k, that is a LOT louder than quite a few of my FLAC albums. Maybe I've just acquired some less than perfect FLAC rips.


 
  I thought my 701's weren't loud enough either....until I took an hour and realized.. I shouldn't be listening at those volumes either. It only ever became a problem of maxing out 60 on 12dB gain with Classical and classic rock songs too.
   
  I have a few 320MP3's that are louder than my lossless copies as well, doesn't mean it's better. Just mean somebody raised the noise floor I guess. Artificially made it louder, no problem with that as long as it's not already clipping or making it louder will clip it. You can always "artificially" use a program to raise a song's "volume" that is....as long as the program won't start clipping the frequency.
   
  AHH! It's Rikkun! Hide! They say... that it(Rikkun) eats....panda's!! [size=medium]๏_๏ ​[/size][size=medium]ಥ_ಥ​[/size]


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Yes, I think you may be right. I've literally just returned my Ultrasone Pro 900's, had about a week with them, and they were so easy to drive. Never really turned it up to max with the previous amp I had, which was an E11. Maybe I just have to get used to the way the Beyers are driven.
> 
> Played a few albums in iTunes and there's one album that is 320k, that is a LOT louder than quite a few of my FLAC albums. Maybe I've just acquired some less than perfect FLAC rips.


 
   
  Less than perfect flac rips are not uncommon. I've had trouble before with flac just not sounding right. I re-ripped the cd after configuring my settings and all was right again.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Also, make sure that you don't have anything like ReplayGain enabled. Or if you do, remember to add a volume boost too.
> ReplayGain (and whatever the Apple counterpart is) can make loudly mastered music 10-15dB softer.
> I wouldn't be surprised if the FLAC albums you were talking about have RG tags without you even realizing it.


 
   
  Don't have ReplayGain enabled, but the volume boost sounds like a good feature. Will have to download it. (Or the Apple equivalent)
   
  Sorry, what do you mean by RG tags? Would that diminish the quality?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Less than perfect flac rips are not uncommon. I've had trouble before with flac just not sounding right. I re-ripped the cd after configuring my settings and all was right again.


 
  There are sometimes also settings on the speed at which you write the new lossless files, generally the slower the better. A slow encoding setting and default FLAC level is fine for me. It takes to long to get a higher level compression and isn't worth it in my opinion for my uses.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Don't have ReplayGain enabled, but the volume boost sounds like a good feature. Will have to download it. (Or the Apple equivalent)
> 
> Sorry, what do you mean by RG tags? Would that diminish the quality?


 
  RG=Replay Gain my friend
   
  I don't use RG or Soundcheck but the extensions shouldn't clip a song, just artificial volume boosting OR lowering (important)
   
  Try SoundCheck for iTunes
   
  Go to Edit-->preferences-->Playback
  and look down.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I thought my 701's weren't loud enough either....until I took an hour and realized.. I shouldn't be listening at those volumes either. It only ever became a problem of maxing out 60 on 12dB gain with Classical and classic rock songs too.
> 
> I have a few 320MP3's that are louder than my lossless copies as well, doesn't mean it's better. Just mean somebody raised the noise floor I guess. Artificially made it louder, no problem with that as long as it's not already clipping or making it louder will clip it. You can always "artificially" use a program to raise a song's "volume" that is....as long as the program won't start clipping the frequency.
> 
> AHH! It's Rikkun! Hide! They say... that it(Rikkun) eats....panda's!! [size=medium]๏_๏ ​[/size][size=medium]ಥ_ಥ​[/size]


 
  Yeah, you are right... I don't know what it is, I just like to know that it can go there if I want it to. Must be psychological. There's nothing I hate more than a track that seems massively attenuated.


----------



## Tilpo

tigersinacage said:


> Don't have ReplayGain enabled, but the volume boost sounds like a good feature. Will have to download it. (Or the Apple equivalent)
> 
> Sorry, what do you mean by RG tags? Would that diminish the quality?



The RG (=ReplayGain) tags will almost always lower the volume if ReplayGain is enabled. It doesn't diminish the quality in any way, but it does make it less loud. 
You should play some music and monitor the volume of the output. If it's on reasonably loud music still far from maximum, then I suggest boosting the volume (above 0dB output of the music player). I wouldn't know how to do this in iTunes, for example, but in programs like foobar2000 it's easy.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Yeah, you are right... I don't know what it is, I just like to know that it can go there if I want it to. Must be psychological. There's nothing I hate more than a track that seems massively attenuated.


 
  Put a few songs into iTunes and enable Soundcheck.
   
  For Mac:
  Go to the main "iTunes" sign itself and click it, click preferences, and then go to "playback" and enable SoundCheck
   
  The instructions in my last post were for windows, sorry.
   
  Both Rikkun(Tilpo) and I use Foobar2000 but I do have iTunes on both my PC and Mac


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> RG=Replay Gain my friend
> 
> I don't use RG or Soundcheck but the extensions shouldn't clip a song, just artificial volume boosting OR lowering (important)
> 
> ...


 
  Ah, should have deciphered that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've got SoundCheck on at the moment, not sure if I'm noticing too much at the moment, but I'll have a play through a few albums and report back. Should this be dealing with the distortion issues I've been having? Like a normalisation?
   
  EDIT- Just switched it back to High Gain, with Sound-Check on and it's definitely stopped the peaking. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Ah, should have deciphered that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Try a few albums, but depending on your songs, it may not do a lot, it was just a guess was all.
   
  Not sure if you want to do this, but in iTunes, if you go to a song, right click-->get info-->Options
  There is a volume adjustment, however this is quite crude and I don't prefer to do it.


----------



## Tilpo

tigersinacage said:


> Ah, should have deciphered that! :rolleyes:  I've got SoundCheck on at the moment, not sure if I'm noticing too much at the moment, but I'll have a play through a few albums and report back. Should this be dealing with the distortion issues I've been having? Like a normalisation?



SoundCheck only adjusts volume. This has no effect whatsoever on distortion. 

I feel like I have missed something in any case; just before you only said you had problems with too low volume. I didn't catch anything about distortions. Could you please elaborate more on this?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> SoundCheck only adjusts volume. This has no effect whatsoever on distortion.
> I feel like I have missed something in any case; just before you only said you had problems with too low volume. I didn't catch anything about distortions. Could you please elaborate more on this?


 
  From what I am getting, the volume is too low and thus when he tries to get more volume with the E17, causes distortion and thus I figured that if we help raise the low volume to higher without any sonic defects then it would solve the distortion caused by maxing out at 60.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> SoundCheck only adjusts volume. This has no effect whatsoever on distortion.
> I feel like I have missed something in any case; just before you only said you had problems with too low volume. I didn't catch anything about distortions. Could you please elaborate more on this?


 
   
  SoundCheck definitely stopped some of the distortion I was having... but then again, if that's all it does, so would turning it down, I guess. Basically when the E17 is set to 6db, to get it to a pretty good level, it has to be maxed out at 60. Even then, it's not very loud.
   
  When switched to 12db, as soon as you try to get it to a good level (Around 50-55) bass drums will start to distort, anything with low end basically. (The E.Q is set to 2 btw)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> SoundCheck definitely stopped some of the distortion I was having... but then again, if that's all it does, so would turning it down, I guess. Basically when the E17 is set to 6db, to get it to a pretty good level, it has to be maxed out at 60. Even then, it's not very loud.
> 
> When switched to 12db, as soon as you try to get it to a good level (Around 50-55) bass drums will start to distort, anything with low end basically. (The E.Q is set to 2 btw)


 
  Can you try volume adjustment, it is basically like the gain, too low and you may get problems and too high as well
   
  I'm talking about this:

   
  Don't do an extreme and it shouldn't affect sound quality "really".
   
  Click on a song and right click and click get info and move to the tab shown.
   
  Don't do an extreme, do light increments and do some testing!


----------



## Tilpo

tigersinacage said:


> SoundCheck definitely stopped some of the distortion I was having... but then again, if that's all it does, so would turning it down, I guess. Basically when the E17 is set to 6db, to get it to a pretty good level, it has to be maxed out at 60. Even then, it's not very loud.
> 
> When switched to 12db, as soon as you try to get it to a good level (Around 50-55) bass drums will start to distort, anything with low end basically. (The E.Q is set to 2 btw)



I see.

What you could maybe try in iTunes is to turn SoundCheck back on (if you want) and open up the equalizer and enable it. Put the preamp all the way up to 12dB and put the E17 back on 6dB. See if that works.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> I see.
> What you could maybe try in iTunes is to turn SoundCheck back on (if you want) and open up the equalizer and enable it. Put the preamp all the way up to 12dB and put the E17 back on 6dB. See if that works.


 
  AHH The EQ pre amp! Of course! That's also an option! How did I forget...although I think iTunes volume adjustement and pre amp are basically the same base thing with different names...maybe, I didn't code it.
   
  His SoundCheck was on.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Can you try volume adjustment, it is basically like the gain, too low and you may get problems and too high as well
> 
> I'm talking about this:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome, this together with sound check is working very well. I'm getting some nice volumes now. Thanks guys for putting up with my technologically inept ramblings! Much appreciated.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Awesome, this together with sound check is working very well. I'm getting some nice volumes now. Thanks guys for putting up with my technologically inept ramblings! Much appreciated.


 
  You can delete your first thread that sadly nobody responded to now! 
   
  Don't do extreme's with that though, You will get distortion if you go extreme either up or down,
   
  Glad I ...panda was able to help




   
   
  Just don't say no to me, as this might happen.
   
  The panda, helps but the bamboo was thick so with a gleeful paw raised and light shinning through it, the FiiO gods declared it immortal and off it went in search of more bamboo.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You can delete your first thread that sadly nobody responded to now!
> 
> Don't do extreme's with that though, You will get distortion if you go extreme either up or down,
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, just went up the first notch. Seemed to give it a nice little boost, without compromising quality. By the way, that is quite possibly the best commercial ever.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Yeah, just went up the first notch. Seemed to give it a nice little boost, without compromising quality. By the way, that is quite possibly the best commercial ever.


 
  It is! My brethen! I would love that you stay on Head-Fi! There are many level 100 lurkers on HEad-Fi! Change your avatar and go around the forums, don't if you are cautious of your wallet though!


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> It is! My brethen! I would love that you stay on Head-Fi! There are many level 100 lurkers on HEad-Fi! Change your avatar and go around the forums, don't if you are cautious of your wallet though!



Not _another_ Panda. 

We need more of my kind!
Though I am not quite sure yet what would be classified as 'my kind'.


----------



## tigersinacage

Done! I hope some of you get the Breaking Bad reference, otherwise my avatar is going to come off borderline mental.


----------



## Tilpo

tigersinacage said:


> Done! I hope some of you get the Breaking Bad reference, otherwise my avatar is going to come off borderline mental.



Well, the guy was kinda mental, even if you've watched the show.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



He committed suicide for the sake of revenge, after all


----------



## bowei006

I have a mini panda under me, we can expand the empire. All hail Maximum Dominus Pandacus!
   
  IT is a bit mental


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Well, the guy was kinda mental, even if you've watched the show.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  God damn that scene was good.


----------



## nariza7

I've recently noticed that my Fiio E17 loses charge even when it is turned off. I would charge it one day and turn it off while unplugging it. Then the next day I would plug it into the computer again while it is still turned off, and it would start charging with the red light on. I unplugged it and turned it on to see that it dropped 1 bar overnight I believe. Also awhile ago, I completely charged it and left it off with the hold option on. a few days later, it completely lost all charge without me even using it once. It wasnt even plugged into the computer or anything. Anyone else experiencing similar problems?


----------



## Tilpo

nariza7 said:


> I've recently noticed that my Fiio E17 loses charge even when it is turned off. I would charge it one day and turn it off while unplugging it. Then the next day I would plug it into the computer again while it is still turned off, and it would start charging with the red light on. I unplugged it and turned it on to see that it dropped 1 bar overnight I believe. Also awhile ago, I completely charged it and left it off with the hold option on. a few days later, it completely lost all charge without me even using it once. It wasnt even plugged into the computer or anything. Anyone else experiencing similar problems?



Welcome to head-fi

How long do you own the E17? 
Worn out lithium batteries tend to drain quickly, although what you describe may be a bit too quick.


----------



## nariza7

I preordered it from mp4nation, so I've had it since it came out. I've only used it a few times though and normally I leave it unplugged when I'm not using it. Does it have to do with battery calibration? I think I'll let it drain out completely then recharge it and see if it still drains when not in use.


----------



## dsan

tigersinacage said:


> So, I just got the Beyer DT880's (250ohm) and a Fiio E17 amp, but I'm having a bit of an issue.
> 
> To get to a pretty loud and full (but not ear blasting) level, the Fiio has to be turned up to around 55 on 12db, but around there it starts to peak and distort slightly. When it is set to 6db, it has to be on max, which is 60. Which is a pretty nice level, quite loud. Just seems very strange that it has to be on max volume to achieve that level.
> 
> ...




I too own 880 250ohm. U must have reallllllllly bad ears. 
My ears will explode at 0bd 55volume.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





dsan said:


> I too own 880 250ohm. U must have reallllllllly bad ears.
> My ears will explode at 0bd 55volume.


 
   
  Definitely not my ears, I've heard from a few different sources that the DT880's are hard to drive. The last two sets of headphones I had driven by an E11 were perfect volumes. I've also let a few different friends try the combo I have, and they all agree that the volume isn't what it should be.


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Definitely not my ears, I've heard from a few different sources that the DT880's are hard to drive. The last two sets of headphones I had driven by an E11 were perfect volumes. I've also let a few different friends try the combo I have, and they all agree that the volume isn't what it should be.


 
   
  I see. I guess you were already advices from good guys in this thread but I recommend you to try different computer.
  Just to see if its just your computer issue.
   
  I am experiencing my E17 making 'tick' noises when I set it to high output.
  say 24bit, 96k it shows weird tick noises which really irritates me.
  If I lower it to 48k it makes things better. 
   
  I do not hear anything different but it doesnt feel the best that my device cant perform at its best potential.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dsan said:


> I see. I guess you were already advices from good guys in this thread but I recommend you to try different computer.
> Just to see if its just your computer issue.
> 
> I am experiencing my E17 making 'tick' noises when I set it to high output.
> ...


 
  IT happens a lot when I move past a gain that my headphones don't react well in. For instance, for very easy to drive headphones, I use 0dB, the moment I use 6dB, the tick sounds appear every now and then. For regular to drive headphones like my Ultrasones, I use 6dB with no problems whatsoever throughout the range..not that I could even get to 60, but it showed problems with the tick when I moved up to 12dB. And then with my Q701's, 12dB exhibiited no tick sounds at all. My only semi panda-scientific theororizing says to me that the E17 will start exhibiting tick sounds on a setting not suitable for the impendence or more accurately driveability (as impendence number does not directly correlate to driveability).
   
  This was one of my biggest dislikes, along with the semi subdued "attack" and energy speed of the E17 that some of my hard rock and EDM really wanted. IT was also quite warm which is nice for newbies and just fun listening alone but sometimes, a clean amp like the O2 is needed!
   
  Panda See, Panda BOO
   
  Quote: 





nariza7 said:


> I've recently noticed that my Fiio E17 loses charge even when it is turned off. I would charge it one day and turn it off while unplugging it. Then the next day I would plug it into the computer again while it is still turned off, and it would start charging with the red light on. I unplugged it and turned it on to see that it dropped 1 bar overnight I believe. Also awhile ago, I completely charged it and left it off with the hold option on. a few days later, it completely lost all charge without me even using it once. It wasnt even plugged into the computer or anything. Anyone else experiencing similar problems?


 
  That happened to me too as well, my only guess is that the E17 loses charges faster than some devices as it would continue to charge after I unplug it (after it was done charging) and it would sit there and charge for another 10 minutes.
   
*Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
  When the device is in use, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17 is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually* bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries.* HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE a month* as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally!


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> IT happens a lot when I move past a gain that my headphones don't react well in. For instance, for very easy to drive headphones, I use 0dB, the moment I use 6dB, the tick sounds appear every now and then. For regular to drive headphones like my Ultrasones, I use 6dB with no problems whatsoever throughout the range..not that I could even get to 60, but it showed problems with the tick when I moved up to 12dB. And then with my Q701's, 12dB exhibiited no tick sounds at all. My only semi panda-scientific theororizing says to me that the E17 will start exhibiting tick sounds on a setting not suitable for the impendence or more accurately driveability (as impendence number does not directly correlate to driveability).
> 
> This was one of my biggest dislikes, along with the semi subdued "attack" and energy speed of the E17 that some of my hard rock and EDM really wanted. IT was also quite warm which is nice for newbies and just fun listening alone but sometimes, a clean amp like the O2 is needed!


 
   
   
  Well this happens at 0db.
  I use 990pro HD650 Klipsch X10 and they all have this Tick sound
   
  Fregen annoying
   
  Files I played were proper 24bit Flac files.
  although it does not matter with the tick sound if the file is 24bit flac or 128bit mp3s


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dsan said:


> Well this happens at 0db.
> I use 990pro HD650 Klipsch X10 and they all have this Tick sound
> 
> Fregen annoying
> ...


 
  Yep, I got it pretty early. First Batch so I know what you mean, I did testing, and it happened on USB, AUX, opt etc. It's the E17 itself, CLIEOS tried to give an explanation of the tick sound being digital stepping and what not, but really, it's a device con. I hope it will be rectified in future designs.


----------



## beatmosphere

Quote: 





manshear said:


> I am very happy to report that I received the Matrix USB to SPDIF Converter this morning and I am now listening to 24bit/96kHz FLAC files on my iPad using the E17.  Sounds Glorious!!!  No distortion and no powered USB hub.
> 
> Oh, and it only hurt my wallet a little bit relative to everything else head-fi...


 

 could you please confirm that the E17 shows in the display "24bit/96khz" on the spdif input or does it downsample to 24bit/48khz or less?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beatmosphere said:


> could you please confirm that the E17 shows in the display "24bit/96khz" on the spdif input or does it downsample to 24bit/48khz or less?


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
   
  If I remember correctly, the E17 does down sample. Forgot who said it though.


----------



## beatmosphere

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
> 
> If I remember correctly, the E17 does down sample. Forgot who said it though.


 

 why should the E17 downsample on the coax spdif? if the ipad could pass the 24bit/96khz flac file  through the CCK to the Matrix USB TO SPDIF 24bit/96khz then i can't see why E17 sould downsample.
   
  so the question is: does the ipad with flac player downsample or not?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beatmosphere said:


> why should the E17 downsample on the coax spdif? if the ipad could pass the 24bit/96khz flac file  through the CCK to the Matrix USB TO SPDIF 24bit/96khz then i can't see why E17 sould downsample.
> 
> so the question is: does the ipad with flac player downsample or not?


 
  I was misinterpretting what you were using it with! Sorry.
   
  I would guess the first question would be if the program and software ITSELF limits the file to Apple's regular limits. I think Apple limits it to 44.1/16 or 48/16, I'm not to sure although 44.1/16 is probably it as Airplay allows for up to "CD Quality lossless" With up to 44.1KHz sample rate and 16bit's of dynamic range.
   
  So even though the DAC and amp is bypassed on the iPad, does the software itself used in the music app or the external flac player limit the file and downsamples it automaticcally would be the question.
   
  I think you would need to contact Apple or the software devs on this question.
   
  Heck, what if synching the file onto the device automatically downsamples it then at that moment before entering the device, despite still carrying the same file size(this probably doesn't happen as sample rate and dynamic range is directly related to bit rate and thus file size)


----------



## tigersinacage

Quick (ish) couple of questions - How does everyone think a Fiio E17 would sound paired with a Little Dot MK3? (With DT880's 250Ohm) Also, how would I go about connecting these two?
   
  I know there are probably better DACs out there for the price of the E17, but I got it relatively cheap, so just using it for that function wouldn't be too much of a problem.
   
  Lastly... Would I still be able to use the E17's bass E.Q with the Little Dot?
   
  Thanking y'all in advance.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Quick (ish) couple of questions - How does everyone think a Fiio E17 would sound paired with a Little Dot MK3? (With DT880's 250Ohm) Also, how would I go about connecting these two?
> 
> I know there are probably better DACs out there for the price of the E17, but I got it relatively cheap, so just using it for that function wouldn't be too much of a problem.
> 
> ...


 
  A few users have used the E17 (as a DAC) with the LittleDot,but they are no longer here. 
   
   
 You have to buy a few things first..not expensive so don't worry.
  
 First you need a FiiO L7
 


  
  
 And then you plug it in like so. The L7 works with the E7 and E17.
  
 You plug the L7 into your dock port of the E17 and then you also need a 3.5mm plug like in the picuture. You need a male plug to plug into the L7 and the other end of that wire will need to be whatever the input you want to use is. If your quad amp accepts and you want to use 3.5mm..then do the same. If it accepts RCA then then a male 3.5mm to male RCA plug cable
  
 Now after this is done play some music and go to the E17, are you able to control the volume(and actually hear it get louder or quieter) or use the EQ option of the E17? If so then you need to set the LO switch to the right position. When this happens your E17 is essentially in variable out meaning your pre amp in the E17 is still engaged, some still like to use EQ of E17 or change volume or have or use the pre amp of a DAC or amp combo as it's just what they want but for you, it seems you want fixed line out which means the e17 will be in use just as a DAC. Well like I said above, find the LO bypass switch on the side of your E17...see it? There will be an up or down position. However way you are looking at it. Flip it to the opposite side. It will then be in fixed line out(unless you mistaked the side it was suppose to switch to, try it a few times if not, as the switch isn't perfectly up or down and may confuse you as it's kinda in the middle for some people) This section of the instructions are for only if you are able to control the EQ and volume.
  
  
 I say L7 because in all honesty and cases you would want to bypass the E17's own op amps(there's two) and use just the Little Dot as an amp without excessive coloration from the DAC itself.
  
  
  Quote CLIEOS: 





> there is also a ‘LO Bypass’ switch on the right side. In the lower position (close to the words), Alpen will be in its default mode to output line level signal (fixed level, no EQ) when docked (to E9 or L7). In the upper position, Alpen will output pre-amp signal instead. In pre-amp mode, volume control and EQ will affect the output when docked.  If you don’t have any particular reason, I’ll suggest you leave the LO Bypass to the default line-out mode. If you do want the EQ to stay on the LO (LO Bypass enable), I will suggest you set Alpen to zero gain and max out on the volume (6dB gain is fine as well).  Use what even amp you are going to pair with Alpen to control volume and gain.


 
   
*YES  to the second part, in your case, there is two options, fixed line out which I prefer means you can't use any volume or EQ controls on the E17, however with variable out, the pre amp is still engaged allowing you volume and EQ controls! *
   
  Yep, for such a desktop setup I would prefer a standalone DAC with the standalone amp but as you said, if you already have it. Why not.
   
  The L7 is about $10 and ships on Amazon, buy from Micca or another FiiO authorized dealer.
   
  Conclusion:

 You need the L7 for best performance.
 Yes, you can still use the EQ and Volume controls with your Little dot and L7 if you set the LO bypass switch to the said location above
 You can also choose not to use the EQ and volume controls and set it to fixed line out which I prefer meaning none of the E17's op amps are in the signal path.
 You need another cable to connect from the L7's female 3.5mm output to whatever input the Little Dot uses
   
  And in case you dont know:
   
 The USB that you see in the picture IS FOR CHARGIN or USB data purposes only. Ok what happens is that when you plug the dock into the E17 or E7...the USB in gets blocked.....that means you can't charge the device and USB input wouldn't be allowed.....as the port is blocked so FiiO added one to the dock to allow you to charge the device or use it as input. With the E17, you can still set input to optical!!!!  USB is the main input most people use so blocking it with a DAC out dock.....would be quite disasterous to the device and especially the E7. And you can't charge it if that happens, so comes the USB in on the L7.  It is easy to get confused! Don't worry.
  
 And I just told you..the FiiO L7 or the E9 or E09K (which are desktop amps that you don't need) are the only devices that you can use to send a fixed line out signal(JUST USE THE DAC) but you don't need the amps so you can only use the L7 like I said..Just switch it to OPT in for input.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> A few users have used the E17 (as a DAC) with the LittleDot,but they are no longer here.
> 
> 
> You have to buy a few things first..not expensive so don't worry.
> ...


 
   
  You sir, are a god damn audio wizard. A panda wizard if you will. Thank you yet again!
   
  Have you heard (any) good things about the E17/Little dot combo?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> You sir, are a god damn audio wizard. A panda wizard if you will. Thank you yet again!
> 
> Have you heard (any) good things about the E17/Little dot combo?


 
  One user if I remember liked it. Although it could be psychiological effects on themselves and MAtt , another frequent user isn't too big of a fan of the DAC itself.
   
  Although I have heard good things about the DAC by itself in the E17 and good things about the Little Dot itself. Finding such a combo impression is quite hard as it's EVERYWHERE!
   
  I fyou have the money, you can upgrade to a standalone DAC though  Their are many cheap and good ones 
   
  There is a little thumbs up button next to "multi" where you would press reply. Click it next to the above post of mine. It means NOTHING on head fi....but it makes panda feel good inside!
   
  I'm like this when people don't press it:

   
  but I'm like this when I get many of them:

   
   
  Feed me upvotes essentially. They mean nothing on head fi and is just funny to wake up and see realy!!


----------



## MattTCG

I thought that I heard my name mentioned...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I thought that I heard my name mentioned...


 
  Just the wind my friend...but yeah!  I believe I'm the only guy that has been here from start to now so I do remember the majority of user posts......as in little bits of it and what they though, and you didn't like the DAC itself too much if I recall.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> You sir, are a god damn audio wizard. A panda wizard if you will. Thank you yet again!
> 
> Have you heard (any) good things about the E17/Little dot combo?


 
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> A few users have used the E17 (as a DAC) with the LittleDot,but they are no longer here.
> 
> 
> You have to buy a few things first..not expensive so don't worry.
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> One user if I remember liked it. Although it could be psychiological effects on themselves and MAtt , another frequent user isn't too big of a fan of the DAC itself.
> 
> Although I have heard good things about the DAC by itself in the E17 and good things about the Little Dot itself. Finding such a combo impression is quite hard as it's EVERYWHERE!
> 
> ...


 
  Haha up voted like I've never up voted before! Yeah, to be fair I'm actually liking the DAC in the E17. Absolutely no hiss whatsoever. So, just to make sure I completely understand this.... If I choose to go down the E17/Little Dot route, would I essentially do this chain:
   
  Mac > E17 (USB cable from laptop straight into L7 USB in)  > L7 Line out  >  Little Dot line in  >  DT880's plugged straight into the Little Dot headphone jack?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Haha up voted like I've never up voted before! Yeah, to be fair I'm actually liking the DAC in the E17. Absolutely no hiss whatsoever. So, just to make sure I completely understand this.... If I choose to go down the E17/Little Dot route, would I essentially do this chain:
> 
> Mac > E17 (USB cable from laptop straight into L7 USB in)  > L7 Line out  >  Little Dot line in  >  DT880's plugged straight into the Little Dot headphone jack?


 
  Remember to set the E17 to USB in and also the LO bypass switch, set it to what you prefer.
   
  You need a cable that has a 3.5mm male to whatever the Little Dot uses as input (RCA component?)
   
  Here's a picturenot me)

   
  Exactly as you described, but remember the cable between the L7 and your amp! Some don't realize the cable has to be remembered as well!
   
  I gave another user correct panda battery procedures above: Remember them 
   
  
 *Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
 When the device is in use, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17 is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually *bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries. *HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE a month* as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally!
  
 Follow them as well! 
  
 I AM NOT A BATTERY EXPERT, THESE ARE JUST WHAT I HAVE READ AND COMPILED FOR YOU!


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Remember to set the E17 to USB in and also the LO bypass switch, set it to what you prefer.
> 
> You need a cable that has a 3.5mm male to whatever the Little Dot uses as input (RCA component?)
> 
> ...


 
   
  
 Ah, that picture shows it perfectly. Excellent. About the battery, it's the same with my iPad. It's so weird, because I was always told to drain the battery down to the bare minimum, then charge it up full. Completely different with these ones.
  
Just spotted a LD-MK3 on Ebay. Comes with Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV and Soviet 6N6P-P tubes. [size=small](Also, including 2x Soviet 6N6P-P and 4x Mullard CV4010 driver tubes as extra)[/size]
   
  [size=small]Gonna keep a close eye on this auction![/size]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


>


 
  I was always and used to always fully drain my batteries as well until I actually read up on it and found out that, doing that to Li ion batters is actually bad.....if you do it every time. Cycle it like that once a month whether used frequently or not is good though! Or cycle it every half year...when in storage


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Just the wind my friend...but yeah!  I believe I'm the only guy that has been here from start to now so I do remember the majority of user posts......as in little bits of it and what they though, and you didn't like the DAC itself too much if I recall.


 
   
  Well, I'd call it very mediocre. Not bad. Just didn't have much body, narrow soundstage...the sound was somewhat congested. I had the odac which was pretty good and much better than the e17 as a straight dac. I was also listening to the bifrost which was better than the odac if that helps put it in perspective.
   
  gL!!


----------



## ClieOS

But putting it top prospective, ODAC is just a $100 USB DAC without an amp section, or any other input / output / EQ besides line-out (or headphone-out, but limit to one of them IIRC). How much is BiForst again? I don't think it is even fair to compare the two. E17 is by no mean the be-all-end-all amp/DAC and I can certainly point out a few other alternatives that easily beat E17 for its SQ, but as far as I can recall, there isn't any other amp/DAC that has all of E17 features and at the same price range.


----------



## bowei006

Hey Clieos! What standalone desktop amps and DAC;s would recommend under $200 and $100?


----------



## ClieOS

If it is only going to be desktop use only, HRT HeadStreamer would be something I would consider myself. However, given the budget you set, I am more incline to recommend O2+ODAC setup with wall adapter, easily the best sub$300 combo there is and should drive most 300ohm or less headphone without any problem. If you want to drive higher impedance headphone, you'll probably need more than $300 (or at least $300) to get something both powerful and good sounding.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> If it is only going to be desktop use only, HRT HeadStreamer would be something I would consider myself. However, given the budget you set, I am more incline to recommend O2+ODAC setup with wall adapter, easily the best sub$300 combo there is and should drive most 300ohm or less headphone without any problem. If you want to drive higher impedance headphone, you'll probably need more than $300 (or at least $300) to get something both powerful and good sounding.


 
  I was looking for more unknown devices like Kiteki personally recommended AK4396 and Musiland 01 , I am trying to leave the popular scene and move into lesser known but good things 
   
  I got an O2 high performance desktop variant for cheap and already have a DAC being the NFB 12.1. I'll be selling the O2 probably


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





clieos said:


> If it is only going to be desktop use only, HRT HeadStreamer would be something I would consider myself. However, given the budget you set, I am more incline to recommend O2+ODAC setup with wall adapter, easily the best sub$300 combo there is and should drive most 300ohm or less headphone without any problem. If you want to drive higher impedance headphone, you'll probably need more than $300 (or at least $300) to get something both powerful and good sounding.


 
   
  Just to throw my 2c in on the hrt ms...I owned it for a couple of months. It was a fair product and just only a notch above the e17 as a dac. It's limited with inputs being RCA only to connect to the amp. It was incredibly buggy in that it was prone to pops and clicks with used with foobar and the WASPI plugin, which happens to be my preferred setup. Note that it is firmware upgradeable and they were rewriting the pluggin so this may no loner be an issue. 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> But putting it top prospective, ODAC is just a $100 USB DAC without an amp section, or any other input / output / EQ besides line-out (or headphone-out, but limit to one of them IIRC). How much is BiForst again? I don't think it is even fair to compare the two. E17 is by no mean the be-all-end-all amp/DAC and I can certainly point out a few other alternatives that easily beat E17 for its SQ, but as far as I can recall, there isn't any other amp/DAC that has all of E17 features and at the same price range.


 
   
  You're picking a little on the wrong person. I didn't unfairly make a comparison of apples and oranges here. I was asked to give my opinion of how the e17 sounded as a dac only and so I did. You imply that I don't appreciate the additional features of the fiio. Let me assure you that indeed I do recognize the versatility and features that the e17 brings to the table...I own three of them!! That doesn't change how the device sounds when used exclusively as a dac though.


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> Just to throw my 2c in on the hrt ms...I owned it for a couple of months. It was a fair product and just only a notch above the e17 as a dac. It's limited with inputs being RCA only to connect to the amp. It was incredibly buggy in that it was prone to pops and clicks with used with foobar and the WASPI plugin, which happens to be my preferred setup. Note that it is firmware upgradeable and they were rewriting the pluggin so this may no loner be an issue.




I am talking about HeadStreamer, not the other Streamer series.



matttcg said:


> You're picking a little on the wrong person. I didn't unfairly make a comparison of apples and oranges here....




You didn't of course, but that doesn't mean those who read your comments will automatically understand the difference between an E17 to an ODAC or a BiFrost.


----------



## Mama70

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> From the manual:
> - Red = Charging
> - Blue = On
> - Purple = On & Charging
> ...


 
   
  I just opened wires of USB cable and measured mA with a clamp meter. It was 170-220mA with USB charging off, and 200-300mA USB charging on. The clamp meter isn't very accurate but gives some clue why my Nokia E7-00 doesn't work with E17:
   
  Nokia E7-00 user manual :
  "If you connect a hard drive that requires
 more than 200 mA of power, use an
 external power source for the hard drive."


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mama70 said:


> I just opened wires of USB cable and measured mA with a clamp meter. It was 170-220mA with USB charging off, and 200-300mA USB charging on. The clamp meter isn't very accurate but gives some clue why my Nokia E7-00 doesn't work with E17:
> 
> Nokia E7-00 user manual :
> "If you connect a hard drive that requires
> ...


 
  iPad with CCK allows up to 100mA and E17 from FiiO said was approx 150mA (which yours sounds about right)
  Many users have gotten it to work though with external power.


----------



## tigersinacage

Sorry for polluting this thread with non E17 chat.. Blasphemy I know, but does anyone have an opinion on the Audiotailor Jade? I've discovered a UK distributor, and it's really not that much more than the Little Dot MK3. 
   

   
  http://www.ampcity.co.uk/amplifiers/audiotailor-jade-tube-amp.html
   
  I've read that the Jade might be a better pairing with the DT880's (250ohm) as one of the outputs has a nice low end boost. Something that would compliment the Beyers.
  ..Okay, slightly on topic I guess... I'd still be running the E17 with it.


----------



## Tilpo

tigersinacage said:


> I've read that the Jade might be a better pairing with the DT880's (250ohm) as one of the outputs has a nice low end boost. Something that would compliment the Beyers.



I wouldn't buy it for the low end boost. 
Learn how to use an EQ instead. Much cheaper, and gives more customizable results.


----------



## bowei006

I think Joe has a guide on EQ?
   
  I think he wants a tube amp to compliment his headphones and to get adequate power.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> I think Joe has a guide on EQ?
> 
> I think he wants a tube amp to compliment his headphones and to get adequate power.



He said he might go for the Jade specifically for it's bass boost.

I'd go with Little Dot in any case. I used to have a Little Dot amp, and the looks and build quality are excellent. On top of that the contact person over at Little Dot (forgot his name) was very nice, and even gave me a free upgrade.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I think he wants a tube amp to compliment his headphones and to get adequate power.


 
   
  Bingo
   
  Quote: 





tilpo said:


> I wouldn't buy it for the low end boost.
> Learn how to use an EQ instead. Much cheaper, and gives more customizable results.


 
  Well I wouldn't be buying it solely for the low end boost, but it would be a nice bonus. Yeah, I know how to use EQ, I'd just rather get the sound I'm after before hand. Don't really like relying on E.Q.


----------



## tigersinacage

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> I'd go with Little Dot in any case. I used to have a Little Dot amp, and the looks and build quality are excellent. On top of that the contact person over at Little Dot (forgot his name) was very nice, and even gave me a free upgrade.


 
   
  That's good to know, thanks!


----------



## bowei006

Sometimes you have to "feel" what the person wants as they may mess up their words and add little other things 
   
  And then when that person gets called out on it for making it seem like they made it seem like they wanted something else, and a Rikkun-saurus comes by and trolls on that said person, that said person feels like this:


----------



## tigersinacage




----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Sometimes you have to "feel" what the person wants as they may mess up their words and add little other things
> 
> And then when that person gets called out on it for making it seem like they made it seem like they wanted something else, and a Rikkun-saurus comes by and trolls on that said person, that said person feels like this:



Are you trying to troll me with the lie that I was making an attempt at trolling him?


----------



## tigersinacage

This is some meta trolling right hurrr.


----------



## alflying

Recessed treble for e17 the DAC?​   
  Hi all,
   
  I am a happy owner of the e17 thus far, I know at this price I shouldn't be complaining, but one nitpick I have is the treble of the e17 when used as a DAC.  Especially when playing strings music it is lacking both in treble quantity and quality.  I did a quick rmaa loopback test and it confirmed my concern.  The e17 as a dac is sloping down sharply after 10khz.  This to me is disappointing considering the tight bass and sweet & forward mids.  
   
  Agree/disagree?
   
  e17 DAC vs other devices I currently own(Xonar DG, Clip+, and i9000) @ 16bit 44khz, click to enlarge


----------



## alflying

Now I wonder if there's issue with my usb setup or the e17 unit itself?
   
  Seems like even the good old e7's treble won't slope down so sharply:
http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Various/FiiO%20E7%20(Aux%20vs.%20USB,%20Vol.%2060,%20No%20Bass%20Levels,%20Var.%20Loads).htm
http://fs-digital.net/rmaatest.php?rmvid=123
   
  Will be great if any of you can do a loopback test on your e17 as comparison, much appreciated.


----------



## Tilpo

alflying said:


> Recessed treble for e17 the DAC?​
> Hi all,
> 
> I am a happy owner of the e17 thus far, I know at this price I shouldn't be complaining, but one nitpick I have is the treble of the e17 when used as a DAC.  Especially when playing strings music it is lacking both in treble quantity and quality.  I did a quick rmaa loopback test and it confirmed my concern.  The e17 as a dac is sloping down sharply after 10khz.  This to me is disappointing considering the tight bass and sweet & forward mids.
> ...



Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's only down 1dB at about 15KHz. That won't have any effect on how much you can enjoy your music from this device. This 1dB down is below audible threshold (human loudness difference thresholds are high at those frequencies), and anything above 15kHz is not really going to matter in any case since hearing at those frequencies is not only imprecise, but there is also only low amplitude - high harmonic content of lower (<5kHz) notes at those frequencies. 

In short: there is no way that a frequency response like that could cause any of the things you have described. I honestly doubt it may be audibly different from a complete flat FR, and if it is, it is bordering the threshold (meaning it's insignificant).


Regarding you second post:
The sharp roll-off is most likely caused by a filter, and is common for DAC's operating at 44.1/48


----------



## alflying

Thanks for the clarification, but really IMO treble should be the weakest link of e17 as a dac.  If even my clip+ can present a much better clarity at those high frequencies(by result of ABX tests), then there's no excuse.
   
  That being said, e17 as a dac is superior to clip+ in all other categories I will say


----------



## ClieOS

alflying said:


> Will be great if any of you can do a loopback test on your e17 as comparison, much appreciated.




I can confirm your result. Last time my RMAA measurement doesn't show any roll-off because I am only measuring the amp section. But I just re-measure with DAC-only and I can see a similar 3dB roll-off at 20kHz. Since the roll-off isn't caused by the amp section, I guess Tilpo is right that those roll-off is probably result of the filter used after the DAC stage to remove the >20kHz component (where the resampling noise is). Judging from the FR curve, could very well be a Butterworth filter that is generally recognized for being smooth and flat.


----------



## alflying

Thanks Clie, at least my e17 is working as it should


----------



## MikeB123

My headphone jack has screwed up somehow, I only get sound from the left, when plugging it in before it goes in I get sound from right headphone and then once in fully nothing.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mikeb123 said:


> My headphone jack has screwed up somehow, I only get sound from the left, when plugging it in before it goes in I get sound from right headphone and then once in fully nothing.


 
  Have you tried with a differnt input device? Like not just your ipod but with the computer? The cable may be faulty so try differnt cables and inputs, the E17 came with a USB and charging cable so try that with your computer through USB or try 3.5mm or LOD in AUX with your iPod. Any difference?
   
  How about different headphones or using your headphones with the computer and not the E17 directly?
   
  There were some qualms about the headphone jacks on the E17, and if I remember correctly James from FiiO said they were working on getting a supplier or someone to fix and get higher quality jacks for their devices. Some also had jack problems with the E17 if I remember.
   
  If you tried the troubleshooting above to make sure it was soley the E17 and not your equipment then this:
   
   



> Did you recently purchase the E17? If so, see if you can get an exchange with your local or regional dealer.
> 
> If not then you may have to contact FiiO at "Market@fiio.com.cn"
> 
> Depending on your device, where you bought it, FiiO from my observations has sometimes allowed regional exchanges in your area with their authorized dealers, but if that doesn't work and you can't fix it yourself with DIY parts(they also have even talked of providing replacement parts if you have the know how on fixing it). The last solutin that FiiO tends to go through last is directly RMA with FiiO in China, this is because they are far away and might take too long.


 
  The above in the quote box do not reflect FiiO's official support or warranty statement on their site listed here:
http://www.fiio.com.cn/about/Asissit.aspx?MenuID=020902
   
  The above in the quote box was soley information that James or other FiiO members have said they can do on head fi and also reflect personal observations on how FiiO would sometimes react to warranty and RMA. They are strictly my own obsesrvations of how FiiO deals with this stuff usually and may and can be filled with errors or updates. Contacting a FiiO member at the listed adress however should be done or contacting your dealer if the device is new as well should be done.
   
  P.S, do not take the warranty page to mean the iron law, that is just there as FiiO's official statement in case stuff happens. They are very good at providing support for anyone with their devices


----------



## alflying

sorry wrong thread


----------



## MattTCG

I will confirm the treble roll off when the e17 is used a as a dac. It's the wink link to this very good device IMO. I've ordered the e9 and worry that it won't sound as good when docked. 
   
  Can anyone comment on the sound docked to the e9? Are the hardware eq controls still functional when docked?
   
  thanks...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I will confirm the treble roll off when the e17 is used a as a dac. It's the wink link to this very good device IMO. I've ordered the e9 and worry that it won't sound as good when docked.
> 
> Can anyone comment on the sound docked to the e9? Are the hardware eq controls still functional when docked?
> 
> thanks...


 
  If I remember correctly, with the LO bypass switch you could still use the EQ controls of the E17.
   
  I didn't hear much treble roll of, but then again, I am subjectively biased. I like nice and forward vocals so my treble EQ was on +2 quite a bit. When I do impressions and reviews, I try to eliminate that, but yeah, to me , I didn't realy feel much.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> If I remember correctly, with the LO bypass switch you could still use the EQ controls of the E17.
> 
> I didn't hear much treble roll of, but then again, I am subjectively biased. I like nice and forward vocals so my treble EQ was on +2 quite a bit. When I do impressions and reviews, I try to eliminate that, but yeah, to me , I didn't realy feel much.



Well, the treble roll off _should_ be on the very border of audibility thresholds, and most likely below it. So no real surprise you can't hear it. 

I won't go in a debate of bias, but I think it's far to say that any reported 'treble roll off' is most likely just in one's head.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Well, the treble roll off _should_ be on the very border of audibility thresholds, and most likely below it. So no real surprise you can't hear it.
> I won't go in a debate of bias, but I think it's far to say that any reported 'treble roll off' is most likely just in one's head.


 
  I used the EQ too much so I didn't give a full account of there being one audible enough or not.


----------



## alflying

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Well, the treble roll off _should_ be on the very border of audibility thresholds, and most likely below it. So no real surprise you can't hear it.
> I won't go in a debate of bias, but I think it's far to say that any reported 'treble roll off' is most likely just in one's head.


 
  You are right that it's at the border of audibility thresholds, but the thing is, some people like me can hear the difference.  How big of an impact that is to the overall sound depends on what type of music you're listening to.  For example, when I am listening to solo guitar or violin tracks I know something is definitely missing there, and once I pop my iem back to clip+ I get a big boost in high treble.  And no it's not in my head, it's just the quantity of high treble I'm talking about here, it's either there or not.
   
  Like you said, some may notice it and some may not, I just hope to point this out so that those who are planning to buy this great device have a more complete picture of what they're getting.


----------



## ClieOS

If it is really important to you, it is still very easy to add back the 3dB on 20kHz via EQ. 

In fact, you should do a blind test to see it you actually notice the missing 3dB or not. It should be easy if you can ask somebody to switch EQ on/off silently while you focus only to the music. I just listened to two different Kaki King's guitar tracks with / without +3dB and I absolutely can't tell a difference. In fact, it takes +20dB @ 20kHz for me to even notice there might be some difference (and I can't be 100% sure if there is a difference or I just want to hear a difference). Not too much of a surprise there since I doubt I still have much hearing left beyond 18kHz.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> If it is really important to you, it is still very easy to add back the 3dB on 20kHz via EQ.
> In fact, you should do a blind test to see it you actually notice the missing 3dB or not. It should be easy if you can ask somebody to switch EQ on/off silently while you focus only to the music. I just listened to two different Kaki King's guitar tracks with / without +3dB and I absolutely can't tell a difference. In fact, it takes +20dB @ 20kHz for me to even notice there might be some difference (and I can't be 100% sure if there is a difference or I just want to hear a difference). Not too much of a surprise there since I doubt I still have much hearing left beyond 18kHz.


 
  I doubt most have any above 18KHz. Most adults have hearing in the 16KHz range. Teen's and young adults are in the 17-18KHz range(said to be less now adays with loud music) and babies have 20-22KHz which is why we have Nyquists law of having a Sample rate over double the highest human hearing(theoretically) and so 44.1KHz


----------



## Tilpo

clieos said:


> If it is really important to you, it is still very easy to add back the 3dB on 20kHz via EQ.
> In fact, you should do a blind test to see it you actually notice the missing 3dB or not. It should be easy if you can ask somebody to switch EQ on/off silently while you focus only to the music. I just listened to two different Kaki King's guitar tracks with / without +3dB and I absolutely can't tell a difference. In fact, it takes +20dB @ 20kHz for me to even notice there might be some difference (and I can't be 100% sure if there is a difference or I just want to hear a difference). Not too much of a surprise there since I doubt I still have much hearing left beyond 18kHz.



Even if you did have much hearing left there, there are a combination of things that make music at that range unimportant. 

First of all, frequency selectivity sucks at >5kHz. It's probably impossible to tell 15 and 16 kHz apart.
Secondly, through the middle ear transfer function there is a huge attenuation at those frequencies, reducing the loudness by a large factor.
Thirdly, loudness selectivity sucks, since there are no to very few outer hair cells close to the oval window (where the high frequencies peak)

But finally, no tone found in music contains fundamentals >5kHz. This means you won't even be able to distinguish the high-treble sounds. They can only affect the timbre in real music (i.e. not test tones). 
Additionally, the content is going to be of very low amplitude, and the hearing system also sucks at detecting small changes of timbre at those ranges, especially because most of the content is going to be a very high harmonic in any case. 

Under _ideal_ circumstances, you _might_ be able to detect the roll-off. That means, using test tones in an anechoic chamber.
With music there is no way you'd be able to hear this roll-off. It's not a matter of subtleties; it's beyond the physical capabilities of the human hearing system.



alflying said:


> You are right that it's at the border of audibility thresholds, but the thing is, some people like me can hear the difference.  How big of an impact that is to the overall sound depends on what type of music you're listening to.  For example, when I am listening to solo guitar or violin tracks I know something is definitely missing there, and once I pop my iem back to clip+ I get a big boost in high treble.  And no it's not in my head, it's just the quantity of high treble I'm talking about here, it's either there or not.
> 
> Like you said, some may notice it and some may not, I just hope to point this out so that those who are planning to buy this great device have a more complete picture of what they're getting.




Like I just explained above: there is simply no way you'd be able to hear the difference. It'd be extremely difficult, if possible at all, under absolutely ideal circumstances, but it's not possible at all under normal circumstances of listening to music.


----------



## bowei006

Rikkun(Tilpo) you really should just ask for the Academus title. You read way too many audio theory books. although it is fun!


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> Rikkun(Tilpo) you really should just ask for the Academus title. You read way too many audio theory books. although it is fun!



AGAIN messing up the Latin, are we?
It's 'Academicus', not 'Academus'.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> AGAIN messing up the Latin, are we?
> It's 'Academicus', not 'Academus'.


 
  And I say Pandacus, anyway, back to topic.
   
  I didn't notice much, CLIEOS didn't notice much, and Rikkun using his Academicus knowledge states the objective details and thus, it is very hard to tell apart and like Currawong's title, it is all in your head probably. No debatting for you today. Go debate with some American next to you, they love it.


----------



## ClieOS

Actually, guitar has fundamentals only up to around 1.2kHz and harmonics only up to 5kHz. Violin will be better for detecting any missing 'air' since its harmonic can go up to 16kHz.


----------



## Tilpo

clieos said:


> Actually, guitar has fundamentals only up to around 1.2kHz and harmonics only up to 5kHz. Violin will be better for detecting any missing 'air' since its harmonic can go up to 16kHz.



That only enforces my point. But what I mean to say is that the musical system of notes breaks down at >5KHz (at 4~ish actually), since human hearing can't detect the tonal differences effectively anymore. 
Anyway, the harmonics of a violin at 16kHz will be very soft.


----------



## MattTCG

I guess we all hear differently. Perhaps even different at different stages of the eq spectrum. I'm very sensitive to hear pitch sounds or treble. Always have been. And I definitely notice the treble roll off.


----------



## alflying

Quote: 





clieos said:


> If it is really important to you, it is still very easy to add back the 3dB on 20kHz via EQ.
> In fact, you should do a blind test to see it you actually notice the missing 3dB or not. It should be easy if you can ask somebody to switch EQ on/off silently while you focus only to the music. I just listened to two different Kaki King's guitar tracks with / without +3dB and I absolutely can't tell a difference. In fact, it takes +20dB @ 20kHz for me to even notice there might be some difference (and I can't be 100% sure if there is a difference or I just want to hear a difference). Not too much of a surprise there since I doubt I still have much hearing left beyond 18kHz.


 
   
  I'm too lazy to do EQ'ing on foobar, I just do a +4 treble in e17 when I am playing violin albums like Accardo's Diabolus in Musica and it does make a difference.  I guess which gear you use will also affect the amount of roll off you detect.  I am using TF10 and it has a 15db roll off from 15-20k, so to me, that 3-4db difference from e17 will be magnified and make or break the edgy treble notes.  Add 4db and those edgy notes sound like they exist with a purpose, without that 4db and they sound like it's a whisper without importance.
   
  It is fair to say that I cannot notice this 15k-20k roll off in most of the tracks I listen to.  But for this Diabolus in Musica album, since I heard it so many times using other gears, I have the memory of the quantity of the edgy violin notes.  I think my situation is pretty extreme to begin with.


----------



## ClieOS

alflying said:


> I'm too lazy to do EQ'ing on foobar, I just do a +4 treble in e17 when I am playing violin albums like Accardo's Diabolus in Musica and it does make a difference.  I guess which gear you use will also affect the amount of roll off you detect.  I am using TF10 and it has a 15db roll off from 15-20k, so to me, that 3-4db difference from e17 will be magnified and make or break the edgy treble notes.  Add 4db and those edgy notes sound like they exist with a purpose, without that 4db and they sound like it's a whisper without importance.
> 
> It is fair to say that I cannot notice this 15k-20k roll off in most of the tracks I listen to.  But for this Diabolus in Musica album, since I heard it so many times using other gears, I have the memory of the quantity of the edgy violin notes.  I think my situation is pretty extreme to begin with.




For all seriousness, I wonder if you are sight-listening. The ears hear what the mind wants them to hear, and thus why blind test is important. Also, if you take note on the EQ measurement I have posted in the beginning of the thread, you will take note that treble boost on E17 starts as low as 1kHz (and sometime lower) which is not nearly as good a compensation as the EQ in FooBar. A +4dB boost on E17 will give a very wide boost from upper mid all the way to treble. I will be surprised if you didn't detect any difference at all.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> For all seriousness, I wonder if you are sight-listening. The ears hear what the mind wants them to hear, and thus why blind test is important. Also, if you take note on the EQ measurement I have posted in the beginning of the thread, you will take note that treble boost on E17 starts as low as 1kHz (and sometime lower) which is not nearly as good a compensation as the EQ in FooBar. A +4dB boost on E17 will give a very wide boost from upper mid all the way to treble. I will be surprised if you didn't detect any difference at all.


 
  It could just be that he or anyone may have just not felt the E17 could deliver on some parts, which isn't that hard to believe as this is only $150, and then analyzed the graph and found that slight drop and thus created a pshychiological explanation and further increased what one thinks one is hearing.


----------



## DroidsRGod

Does a FiiO E17 do much change for the Ultrasone HFI-780s? Should I get the E17 with my 780s or wait?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





droidsrgod said:


> Does a FiiO E17 do much change for the Ultrasone HFI-780s? Should I get the E17 with my 780s or wait?


 
  How much it changes differs from person to person. As someone moving up from an M50, you may not like it
http://www.head-fi.org/t/607256/best-headphones-under-200-for-the-highs-of-trance-and-the-lows-of-dubstep-cant-find-thread-on-this-plz-help
   
  This person had the 780's and didn't really like them due to bass, in the end, I recommended the HFI 580 and DT770 (also in this thread)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/618786/choosing-over-ear-headphones-under-200
   
  And they enjoyed both, they did not come back to tell me which one they finally picked.
   
  Your $350 HP Laptop(edited in case readers thought HP=headphones) certainly is not a good audio device. I may be wrong and it is super good at it, but 9.9/10 and me being an Computer Enthusiast, I would say it's pretty crappy. I have a desktop ASUS motherboard with a well spec'd onboard codec and that to me sounds like utter...balony. 
   
  The next thing is comfort, I like my 580's, but the comfort is unbearable at times, considering you came from a warmer bassir M50, the DT770's 80 ohm to 250 ohm sounds better (the second thread above that I linked, give it a short read, you will learn everything)
  The DT770 80 ohms were good when I tried them, they were warm and had a bit too much bass quantity which would ease someone like you in more, they are an upgrade, they need an amp, which would justify the E17 IF you use the E17 per the ways we went over in the previous thread and yeah.
   
  The Ultrasone's dont need an amp, and don't benefit as much as the easier to upgrade to and needy DT770 80 or 250 ohms. Some users with the E17 said 250 ohm beyers are driven adequately (most do) while a few here and there say there isn't enough power. IT depends on how loud you usually go.
  Personally I would say to look at the DT770 pro 80 ohm. the thread that I linked to first and second should be read. They are very good.
   
  And give it some thought. The E17 isn't for everyone, if you use it at home most of the time, a desktop DAC and amp unit would be much better, like HRT's at that range, also look at used if you are clawing for money.
   
  Edited: $350 HP into HP laptop. HP may make some think I was referring to laptops.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> It could just be that he or anyone may have just not felt the E17 could deliver on some parts, which isn't that hard to believe as this is only $150, and then analyzed the graph and found that slight drop and thus created a pshychiological explanation and further increased what one thinks one is hearing.



Yeah, but what he described does not correlate with what the graph says judging from both my experience and knowledge of psychoacoustics.


----------



## alflying

Quote: 





clieos said:


> For all seriousness, I wonder if you are sight-listening. The ears hear what the mind wants them to hear, and thus why blind test is important. Also, if you take note on the EQ measurement I have posted in the beginning of the thread, you will take note that treble boost on E17 starts as low as 1kHz (and sometime lower) which is not nearly as good a compensation as the EQ in FooBar. A +4dB boost on E17 will give a very wide boost from upper mid all the way to treble. I will be surprised if you didn't detect any difference at all.


 
  Of cos I notice it, not only the upper mid to treble is boosted all the way, but the remaining of the frequency is recessed somewhat and it does not sound as neutral as no EQ'ing on e17.
   
  I'm here to enjoy music not to argue, so if you suspect or don't believe what I am describing, so be it.  Actually i envy those who don't notice any or much of a recessed treble, your experience with e17 will definitely be better than mine.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





alflying said:


> Of cos I notice it, not only the upper mid to treble is boosted all the way, but the remaining of the frequency is recessed somewhat and it does not sound as neutral as no EQ'ing on e17.
> 
> I'm here to enjoy music not to argue, so if you suspect or don't believe what I am describing, so be it.  Actually i envy those who don't notice any or much of a recessed treble, your experience with e17 will definitely better than mine.


 
  I envy myself back when I could enjoy and jam to the sound of Logitech's and my iPod earbuds. Honestly.
   
  And another point would be that since the E17 has EQ, most probably have used it to some point which would maybe make them feel..unable to answer you as their perception has been tainted with EQ. That's basically me.
   
  Don't mind Tilpo, he likes to argue.


----------



## Tilpo

bowei006 said:


> I envy myself back when I could enjoy and jam to the sound of Logitech's and my iPod earbuds. Honestly.
> 
> And another point would be that since the E17 has EQ, most probably have used it to some point which would maybe make them feel..unable to answer you as their perception has been tainted with EQ. That's basically me.
> 
> *Don't mind Tilpo, he likes to argue.*



Got that right. 

But it does not always seem others feel the same. 


Ah well, if alflying hears a recessed treble, then he hears a recessed treble. That's perfectly fine.


----------



## autoexec

I've noticed that the included USB cable is slightly thicker than most included USB cable like from mp3 players. Do you know if it's safe to use any usb cable for the E17?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> I've noticed that the included USB cable is slightly thicker than most included USB cable like from mp3 players. Do you know if it's safe to use any usb cable for the E17?


 
  Unless there was something specific about it. Then yes
   
  Any Type A to Mini B plug connector should work. But please not that some cables could be damaged, there were some users that had problems in this thread as they used a cable that was broken and thus gave them weird sound.
  USB has many plug and receptacle variants in case you were wondering by the names above.


----------



## autoexec

ah, thanks for the additional info Panda-sama.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> ah, thanks for the additional info Panda-sama.


 
  You're welcome!


----------



## BoosTZ

I have a question to whomever it may concern...but first to give some background information about what kind of music listener I am. I love music; however, I am not your typical music listener that claims to love music. I enjoy all forms of music, from classic rock to 90's rock, from 1940s jazz to bach (classical music), from micro house to minimal techno, from heavy metal to nu-metal, and from nu-disco to deep house. I am very involved in the music searching/listening process and would call myself an addict. That said, you must know before answering that I listen to a wide range of music, and a lot of it includes heavy layering (multiple samples built on each other at once, with often low frequencies, subtle tones and very sophisticated, clean sound). Some very particular examples that come to mind are artists like Amon Tobin, Murcof, Ricardo Villalobos, and so on (I do not expect you to know these artists, so take a listen if you care to, and let me know if you want particular examples of track names). I have a pair of Bowers & Wilkins P5 headphones and I mostly listen to .flac, .wav and 320kbps .mp3. So I guess my question is, will this DAC and headphone amp SIGNIFICANTLY increase the quality of the music I am listening to? I am trying to find every way possible to increase the sound quality so I can enjoy it as much as I can.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boostz said:


> I have a question to whomever it may concern...but first to give some background information about what kind of music listener I am. I love music; however, I am not your typical music listener that claims to love music. I enjoy all forms of music, from classic rock to 90's rock, from 1940s jazz to bach (classical music), from micro house to minimal techno, from heavy metal to nu-metal, and from nu-disco to deep house. I am very involved in the music searching/listening process and would call myself an addict. That said, you must know before answering that I listen to a wide range of music, and a lot of it includes heavy layering (multiple samples built on each other at once, with often low frequencies, subtle tones and very sophisticated, clean sound). Some very particular examples that come to mind are artists like Amon Tobin, Murcof, Ricardo Villalobos, and so on (I do not expect you to know these artists, so take a listen if you care to, and let me know if you want particular examples of track names). I have a pair of Bowers & Wilkins P5 headphones and I mostly listen to .flac, .wav and 320kbps .mp3. So I guess my question is, will this DAC and headphone amp SIGNIFICANTLY increase the quality of the music I am listening to? I am trying to find every way possible to increase the sound quality so I can enjoy it as much as I can.


 
  What gear are you using right now? The P5 is just a headphone. What are you connecting it to? Computer? If so, what model. iPod or PMP? If so what? Both or more? List them please.
   
http://yklee118.blogspot.com/2012/03/beyerdynamic-t50p-vs-bowers-wilkins-p5.html
   
   
   


> [size=x-small] The P5 is certainly a warm sounding headphone as such would benefit to a slightly more aggressive amplifier.  [/size]


 
   
   


> [size=x-small] Both headphones don't require any form of amplification however will benefit from either portable or desktop amplification especially when listening to very complex albums where every detail counts.[/size]


 
   
   


> [size=x-small] The P5 has a character that allows the listener to enjoy music and its many depths without having to use a complicated headphone amplifier setup,[/size]


 
   
   


> [size=x-small]Having a bit of amplification can make all the difference in The Audiophile World as such when presented with such a great sounding album.  [/size]


 
   
  It's up to you if you would want an amplifier, depending on your answer, a agressive amp and or DAC would benefit. The E17 is not as agressive or energetic as I would like though.


----------



## Tilpo

boostz said:


> I have a question to whomever it may concern...but first to give some background information about what kind of music listener I am. I love music; however, I am not your typical music listener that claims to love music. I enjoy all forms of music, from classic rock to 90's rock, from 1940s jazz to bach (classical music), from micro house to minimal techno, from heavy metal to nu-metal, and from nu-disco to deep house. I am very involved in the music searching/listening process and would call myself an addict. That said, you must know before answering that I listen to a wide range of music, and a lot of it includes heavy layering (multiple samples built on each other at once, with often low frequencies, subtle tones and very sophisticated, clean sound). Some very particular examples that come to mind are artists like Amon Tobin, Murcof, Ricardo Villalobos, and so on (I do not expect you to know these artists, so take a listen if you care to, and let me know if you want particular examples of track names). I have a pair of Bowers & Wilkins P5 headphones and I mostly listen to .flac, .wav and 320kbps .mp3. So I guess my question is, will this DAC and headphone amp SIGNIFICANTLY increase the quality of the music I am listening to? I am trying to find every way possible to increase the sound quality so I can enjoy it as much as I can.



Depends on what your using now, but chances are big your money is better spent on getting better headphones.

PS:
You do sound like the typical music lover, i.e. the kind of person who sees listening to music as a hobby. I am the same in this regard, and I know many others who are too. I think you're confused with the average person who listens to music.
I think it's safe to say that the majority, or at least a significant amount of people, on this forum do the same thing. Even the most hardcore (if that means anything) audiophiles are music listeners first, and audio listener second.


----------



## autoexec

What DAC are you from? Cheap sound card? If so, I'm sure you'll notice huge improvement. And also what kind of listener are you? The one who prefers "accurate"? Based from what I've read the P5 is a little "fun sounding" headphones.


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What gear are you using right now? The P5 is just a headphone. What are you connecting it to? Computer? If so, what model. iPod or PMP? If so what? Both or more? List them please.
> 
> http://yklee118.blogspot.com/2012/03/beyerdynamic-t50p-vs-bowers-wilkins-p5.html
> 
> ...


 
  I am connected to Macbook Air. I use that most frequently and would ideally use the amp, if i were to purchase it, at home (unless there is one that exists as Bluetooth friendly, which I seriously doubt exists)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boostz said:


> I am connected to Macbook Air. I use that most frequently and would ideally use the amp, if i were to purchase it, at home (unless there is one that exists as Bluetooth friendly, which I seriously doubt exists)


 
  The amp and DAC of the MAcbook Air is fine enough. The source said it doesn't need much amplification and a warmer amp will do. The Macbook line of amps are genrally warm and if I remember have about 90mW of power. The DAC is also good. I would say that a $200+ desktop amp and DAC would be needed to offer you good upgrade considering your headphones are fun and warm.
   
  Sure the E17 would be an upgrade but as you already have a Mac and your headphones aren't needy. I would say no.


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> Depends on what your using now, but chances are big your money is better spent on getting better headphones.
> PS:
> You do sound like the typical music lover, i.e. the kind of person who sees listening to music as a hobby. I am the same in this regard, and I know many others who are too. I think you're confused with the average person who listens to music.
> I think it's safe to say that the majority, or at least a significant amount of people, on this forum do the same thing. Even the most hardcore (if that means anything) audiophiles are music listeners first, and audio listener second.


 
  Of course it's a hobby. I am not a professional music critic or artist, you see. But, in general, typical music listeners do not seek detail or listen to multi-layered music. Skrillex, for example, is not multi-layered like I am describing; he produces pop-dubstep. So, when I say I am not the average music listener, I am speaking in general. I doubt heavily that my music taste is shared by many on this forum.


----------



## autoexec

@bowei006
  I think the source you quoted said that slightly more aggressive amp should be ideal to pair with warm headphones like P5. Not sure about another warm sounding amp would sound like.
   
  @BoosTZ
  I agree with panda, you don't need this. Better yet buy another headphones that will suffice your listening needs.


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The amp and DAC of the MAcbook Air is fine enough. The source said it doesn't need much amplification and a warmer amp will do. The Macbook line of amps are genrally warm and if I remember have about 90mW of power. The DAC is also good. I would say that a $200+ desktop amp and DAC would be needed to offer you good upgrade considering your headphones are fun and warm.
> 
> Sure the E17 would be an upgrade but as you already have a Mac and your headphones aren't needy. I would say no.


 
  Forgive me for my ignorance, but what do you mean by the terms 'fun' and 'warm' when describing headphones?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boostz said:


> Of course it's a hobby. I am not a professional music critic or artist, you see. But, in general, typical music listeners do not seek detail or listen to multi-layered music. Skrillex, for example, is not multi-layered like I am describing; he produces pop-dubstep. So, when I say I am not the average music listener, I am speaking in general. I doubt heavily that my music taste is shared by many on this forum.


 
  I just gave it a listen, the E17 and or other units would allow for greater death and soundstage if you would like for that kind of upgrade?
   
  Nothing significantly increases the sound than another pair of headphones at this range(not summit range)
   
  Are you able to go demo some units nearby?
   
  I personally would get one as I like units and the soundstage and depth increase, but the Bowers aren't really that needy, and the MBA already has pretty fine guts.


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





boostz said:


> Of course it's a hobby. I am not a professional music critic or artist, you see. But, in general, typical music listeners do not seek detail or listen to multi-layered music. Skrillex, for example, is not multi-layered like I am describing; he produces pop-dubstep. So, when I say I am not the average music listener, I am speaking in general. I doubt heavily that my music taste is shared by many on this forum.


 
   
  This is head-fi, there are many people here that listen to different kinds of music than you do. They just don't make it a big thing for it to become obvious in them.


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I just gave it a listen, the E17 and or other units would allow for greater death and soundstage if you would like for that kind of upgrade?
> 
> Nothing significantly increases the sound than another pair of headphones at this range(not summit range)
> 
> ...


 
  Fair enough. I appreciate your input. I think I need to do some serious research of this matter to develop my own opinion. Do you know if Best Buy or a major electronics retailer carries headphone amps to test? I just want an idea of what having an amp hooked up sounds like.


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> This is head-fi, there are many people here that listen to different kinds of music than you do. They just don't make it a big thing for it to become obvious in them.


 
  And I don't doubt that. Perhaps you misconstrued what I am trying to convey; I am not saying that like a hotshot of some kind. I am only trying to describe the particular kind of music I listen to so I can get an idea if this amp will significantly increase the sound quality and thus enjoyment of my music. That's all.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boostz said:


> Fair enough. I appreciate your input. I think I need to do some serious research of this matter to develop my own opinion. Do you know if Best Buy or a major electronics retailer carries headphone amps to test? I just want an idea of what having an amp hooked up sounds like.


 
  Nope, Best Buy on average DOES NOT.
   
  Yes, as the chinese quote says:
   
   


> The Teacher opens the door, but you must walk in


 
  The MBA and P5 is fine already but having demo'd your layered songs, a tube amp like the review said with good soundstage may or may not increase your pleasure "significantly".
   
  Also decide on what type of unit you want. The E17 is portable and desktop, but there are many just desktop units that are good as well.


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





boostz said:


> Forgive me for my ignorance, but what do you mean by the terms 'fun' and 'warm' when describing headphones?


 
   
  Fun = tuned for general consumers. Usually like "disco" preset on most audio components with recessed mids and boosted bass/treble.
  Warm = a little bit bassy I guess?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> Fun = tuned for general consumers. Usually like "disco" preset on most audio components with recessed mids and boosted bass/treble.
> Warm = a little bit bassy I guess?


 
   
   
  It took me time and demoing other headphones before I learned. Warm is exactly what it means when it feels like it's heated, and isn't very cold or thin. Fun generally sometimes hides more details and engages the users more.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/a/glossary-of-terms
http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary
   
  These help explain:
   
   


> *Fun* - A term coined by Currawong referring to a tonal balance in a piece of audio gear that has a boosted bass (mid-bass) and treble that is most appealing on first or casual listening but isn't intended to be tonally neutral. Also the name of a DAC/amp made by Audio-gd where you could "roll" (exchange) most of the circuitry to change the sound for amusement or preference.
> 
> *Warm* - Good bass, adequate low frequencies, adequate fundamentals relative to harmonics. Not thin. Also excessive bass or mid bass. Also, pleasantly spacious, with adequate reverberation at low frequencies. Also see Rich, Round. Warm highs means sweet highs.


----------



## autoexec

Quote:  





> It took me time and demoing other headphones before I learned. *Warm is exactly what it means when it feels like it's heated, and isn't very cold or thin. *Fun generally sometimes hides more details and engages the users more.


 
   
  Very good description!


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> Fun = tuned for general consumers. Usually like "disco" preset on most audio components with recessed mids and boosted bass/treble.
> Warm = a little bit bassy I guess?


 
  Ok so you seem to know a thing or two about headphones. What, in your opinion, are the BEST all-around on/over-ear headphones, in both comfort and sound quality? This is actually directed to everyone, and please provide me some detailed reasons why. I do love these P5's because of their extreme comfort, excellent design, good looks, and excellent sound quality. However, I still feel like hitting its full potential. Maybe you all know quite a bit, but judging by my experience, I think these headphones are pretty damn high end and could use a boost (i.e. an amp. So I guess this is a 2 part question


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> Very good description!


 
  I really didn't think so. I found it hard to explain as well but essentially....it's when everything is just a bit too or overly exxagerated in a sense I guess, without good headphone experience, most can't tell the difference but that's essentially it, when parts of the sonic qualities are a bit "exxagerated" past what should be baseline (neutral as we call it)


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





boostz said:


> And I don't doubt that. Perhaps you misconstrued what I am trying to convey; I am not saying that like a hotshot of some kind. I am only trying to describe the particular kind of music I listen to so I can get an idea if this amp will significantly increase the sound quality and thus enjoyment of my music. That's all.


 
   
   
  But you said here that you do doubt it heavily. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





boostz said:


> Of course it's a hobby. I am not a professional music critic or artist, you see. But, in general, typical music listeners do not seek detail or listen to multi-layered music. Skrillex, for example, is not multi-layered like I am describing; he produces pop-dubstep. So, when I say I am not the average music listener, I am speaking in general. *I doubt heavily that my music taste is shared by many on this forum.*


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boostz said:


> Ok so you seem to know a thing or two about headphones. What, in your opinion, are the BEST all-around on/over-ear headphones, in both comfort and sound quality? This is actually directed to everyone, and please provide me some detailed reasons why. I do love these P5's because of their extreme comfort, excellent design, good looks, and excellent sound quality. However, I still feel like hitting its full potential. Maybe you all know quite a bit, but judging by my experience, I think these headphones are pretty damn high end and could use a boost (i.e. an amp. So I guess this is a 2 part question


 
  They are not that high end on head fi. Their fun sound have put many off and they aren't what most would call hi fi.
   
  The best headphones would cost you a few thousand dollars.
   
  It seems to me that you are wanting one of us to give you an amp to justify buying an amp for the headphones that you like more? That happens many times but sometimes...it just isn't worth it considering your MBA is present already and the reviewer himself said that it doesn't essentially need it.


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





boostz said:


> Ok so you seem to know a thing or two about headphones. What, in your opinion, are the BEST all-around on/over-ear headphones, in both comfort and sound quality? This is actually directed to everyone, and please provide me some detailed reasons why. I do love these P5's because of their extreme comfort, excellent design, good looks, and excellent sound quality. However, I still feel like hitting its full potential. Maybe you all know quite a bit, but judging by my experience, I think these headphones are pretty damn high end and could use a boost (i.e. an amp. So I guess this is a 2 part question


 
   
  I would be bias since I own the item but I would suggest the DT 1350 for more detailed/accurate listening. Also pairs with the E17 great with 6db. And no, I'm still a noob about headphones.


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> But you said here that you do doubt it heavily.


 
  Right, as in my particular music taste is most likely not shared by many. I believe you were saying something about people having different music tastes, which I do not doubt.
  And it's completely besides the point lol. I am not trying to fight with you; I want to work with you in finding a solution.


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> They are not that high end on head fi. Their fun sound have put many off and they aren't what most would call hi fi.
> 
> The best headphones would cost you a few thousand dollars.
> 
> It seems to me that you are wanting one of us to give you an amp to justify buying an amp for the headphones that you like more? That happens many times but sometimes...it just isn't worth it considering your MBA is present already and the reviewer himself said that it doesn't essentially need it.


 
  Well, I appreciate your honesty. If the MBA suffices, then it suffices. 
   
  On another note, what would you suggest as a pair of good sounding bluetooth headphones? The winner so far for me are the Harman/Kardon BT headphones. (only on-ear/over-ear headphones)


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> I would be bias since I own the item but I would suggest the DT 1350 for more detailed/accurate listening. Also pairs with the E17 great with 6db. And no, I'm still a noob about headphones.


 
  I am seeing so far that those are portable headphones. Would they be good HOME audio headphones, however? I admit, a bit of a strange question as the P5's are considered portable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boostz said:


> Well, I appreciate your honesty. If the MBA suffices, then it suffices.
> 
> On another note, what would you suggest as a pair of good sounding bluetooth headphones? The winner so far for me are the Harman/Kardon BT headphones. (only on-ear/over-ear headphones)


 
  They suffice! YES THAT WAS THE WORD I WAS LOOKING FOR! YEs, a DAC and amp will make it better, and as an audiophile, I would just grab mine! But suffice is the word! you are looking for significant, many really like using amps and DAC's as it adds that extra layer of oomph they are looking for...if you still want a unit. Then head fi is the place, go take a few look if you wish.
   
  Sennheiser has a well receiver...very well received, even by Jude himself Wireless headset
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/wireless-headphones
   
  I believe it was the RS220 that was very well liked for sounding exactly like a....was it 598? I forgot?


----------



## BoosTZ

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> They suffice! YES THAT WAS THE WORD I WAS LOOKING FOR! YEs, a DAC and amp will make it better, and as an audiophile, I would just grab mine! But suffice is the word! you are looking for significant, many really like using amps and DAC's as it adds that extra layer of oomph they are looking for...if you still want a unit. Then head fi is the place, go take a few look if you wish.
> 
> Sennheiser has a well receiver...very well received, even by Jude himself Wireless headset
> http://www.sennheiserusa.com/wireless-headphones
> ...


 
  HOLY crap. 300ft RANGE?! That's incredible. I like that it's no noise either. I definitely need to check those out lol.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boostz said:


> HOLY crap. 300ft RANGE?! That's incredible. I like that it's no noise either. I definitely need to check those out lol.


 
  Demo them, Best buy generally have sennheisers but I doubt those kinds, I saw some admin of head fi like them, Jude I believe so they could be it but remember, what one looks in a headphone differs.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Hey bowei, man you have been on this thread for a while haha. 

 Actually I'm considering buying the E17 again since it was great on the go. I have a question though, would it power a pair of DT770 250ohms well? I had the 80Ohm with it before but people are saying the 250ohm is more balanced kind of. Only reason I would want the DT770 80ohm is for games with huge explosions haha.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Hey bowei, man you have been on this thread for a while haha.
> 
> Actually I'm considering buying the E17 again since it was great on the go. I have a question though, would it power a pair of DT770 250ohms well? I had the 80Ohm with it before but people are saying the 250ohm is more balanced kind of. Only reason I would want the DT770 80ohm is for games with huge explosions haha.


 
  There have been many people saying the E11 and or E17 has enough power for 250 ohm current gen beyers, however there were one or two that said it did not have enough power.
   
  Puprle angel himself uses an E11 for his 250 ohm beyers and I used my Q701's back when I had the E17. If you like to listen to it loud, then it may not have enough power. Otherwise, from people I have been reading off of. It has just enough power for adequate volume, whatever adequate volume may mean to you.!
   
  So basically....be careful. There is power but depending on your needs, may or may not be enough.
   
  I've been here since day one....or two.


----------



## DiscoBurger

I have heard good things from a guy who powers his Q701s with the E17 on max gain...apparently less than max just doesn't power them well enough


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





discoburger said:


> I have heard good things from a guy who powers his Q701s with the E17 on max gain...apparently less than max just doesn't power them well enough


 
  As someone that used the combo, I can attest and agree to that. It is fine volume on most songs but the moment you hit classical and oldies songs that are a lot quieter..be prepared to hit 60.


----------



## AppleDappleman

How about for the 600 ohm actually. At that rate would I need the E9?

I wish they announce e19 so I can start saving up instead of buying an E9


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> How about for the 600 ohm actually. At that rate would I need the E9?
> I wish they announce e19 so I can start saving up instead of buying an E9


 
  It probably can't do 600 ohm. The specs page doesn't list it as supported any how.
   
  They have an E9 update though. E90K, it will arrive in U.S soon.


----------



## tim3320070

It works fine, if not ideal, with my DT770/600ohm. More speculation without experience, 10,000+ posts in.


----------



## dexvx

Quick question:
   
  For the E17, is there a way to disable the DAC and only use the amplification feature? I want to use the Asus Xonar DX for games (for superior positional sounds) and the E17+DAC for music/light gaming.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> It works fine, if not ideal, with my DT770/600ohm. More speculation without experience, 10,000+ posts in.


 
  Speculation with user data of course. How loud someone listens to or prefers differs from person to person. I personally didn't feel there was even enough power for the Q701's.
  The majority of the people I have met with 600 ohm beyers and E11's don't think that it is even enough power (E11 is 200mW @16 ohms and E17 is 215mW @ 16 ohms).
   
  I do go for experience most of the time but really. How many people have every single headphone and can tell you it. And thus with questions about driving a headphone. Using primary sources. One can make a partial deductment.
   
  But like you said, experience would be better.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Quick question:
> 
> For the E17, is there a way to disable the DAC and only use the amplification feature? I want to use the Asus Xonar DX for games (for superior positional sounds) and the E17+DAC for music/light gaming.


 
  If you want to use the DX with the E17 but not use the E17's DAC, then set the E17 to AUX in. Then for your other purposes, do E17 in USB or optical mode.
   
  There are some workarounds to send or lace some surround sound positional technology with the digital stream, but I am not familiar with it.


----------



## silversurfer616

Nothing wrong with speculation.Rather trust a specs page than someone's experience(as we all might experience the same things"differently").


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Nothing wrong with speculation.Rather trust a specs page than someone's experience(as we all might experience the same things"differently").


 
  The 250 ohm and 600 ohm beyers are the hardest. Because everyone has them...and I kid you not, everyone has said differnt things about them
   
  I have had many say the 250 ohm beyers are driven extremely well with the E17 and E11, and one or two(one recently) say the 250 ohms aren't driven well with it. I have tme over here saying the 600 ohm works well with the E11/E17 and two that say otherwise.
  At this point, I basically set a cut off mark. Most people don't use the e17 with the 600 ohm beyers and thus aren't as many input on if it works or not. Many with 250 ohm are using it...and so I leave the cut off at 250 ohm. No sense in playing a 50/50 game with newbies that come.


----------



## dexvx

Thanks for the quick response. I'm still having issues. What do I connect the Aux on the E17 to? It doesn't seem to have a line out.
   
  The Xonar DX has the following ports:
  1) Line-In/Mic-In/SPDIF Out (this is all 1 port)
  2) Analog Out (Main)
  3) Analog Out (Surround)
  4) Subwoofer Out
  5) Analog Out (Rear)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Thanks for the quick response. I'm still having issues. What do I connect the Aux on the E17 to? It doesn't seem to have a line out.
> 
> The Xonar DX has the following ports:
> 1) Line-In/Mic-In/SPDIF Out (this is all 1 port)
> ...


 

   
  You would plug into "front jack" you may need to set it up though depeninng on a few things.
   
   
  There are some cards that can include the surround effect with the digital out.....and you can try that with the gaming threads but for now, front jack


----------



## autoexec

Any idea how well would these drive HE-400? Thank you


----------



## nipit

So basically what's the best price on e17 right now?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> Any idea how well would these drive HE-400? Thank you


 
   
  If you are asking how well the e17 drives the he400, in short very nicely. I use +12 gain and +2 bass and it sounds quite good.


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Quick question:
> 
> For the E17, is there a way to disable the DAC and only use the amplification feature? I want to use the Asus Xonar DX for games (for superior positional sounds) and the E17+DAC for music/light gaming.


 

 A better solution would be an Asus Essence ST(X) card in the PC. It has a dedicated headphone amp. and provides direct ASIO support up to 192K/24 bits. Used to play FLAC files from JRiver MediaCenter it produces an unbeatable PC sound.
   
  Also if you plug the E17 into the Xonar "front speakers out" socket you are double amping.
   
  Try using a decent USB cable to connect the E17 directly to the PC and optionally download the E17 ASIO driver from Fiio's site. I haven't tried connecting my E17 to the Asus SPDIF socket but that should be good also.


----------



## tigersinacage

Just got the Little Dot MK3. Using the E17 as a DAC (Set to lo-pass) and it sounds amazing. It's crazy what a difference in sound there is. This is what I wanted my DT880's to sound like!
   
  Thanks again for all the advice I gathered from this thread. Much appreciated.


----------



## Zak117

Any advice on getting the e17 to output more than 48k on optical or aux... USB will display 98k but everything else seems to stay at 48k
   
   
  -edit Managed to get 96k out of optical and it sounds fine but if i set my computer output to 192k i get some strange static.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zak117 said:


> Any advice on getting the e17 to output more than 48k on optical or aux... USB will display 98k but everything else seems to stay at 48k
> 
> 
> -edit Managed to get 96k out of optical and it sounds fine but if i set my computer output to 192k i get some strange static.


 
  That has happened to me on rare occasions as well, sorry but I have no solutions as of right now.


----------



## nipit

Anyone tried using it with Android tablet? Something like Ainol Novo 7?


----------



## Tilpo

nipit said:


> Anyone tried using it with Android tablet? Something like Ainol Novo 7?



This device will not work with Android, since Android lacks proper USB audio drivers.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





tilpo said:


> This device will not work with Android, since Android lacks proper USB audio drivers.


 
  I have heard of the E17 working with some devices, depends on the build of the system they are using, be it cyanogen or something else, then we have OTG support(if it has it or not) and if the software can or is compatible with that devices hardware and then since we are talking abotu the E17, there needs to be an external power source between the E17 USB input and the phone or tablet's USB output.


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





zak117 said:


> Any advice on getting the e17 to output more than 48k on optical or aux... USB will display 98k but everything else seems to stay at 48k
> 
> 
> -edit Managed to get 96k out of optical and it sounds fine but if i set my computer output to 192k i get some strange static.


 

 This is fairly normal depending on what gear you have.  Optical has LOTs of jitter esp if you have a cable that doesn't lock in place (not all mine do).  All my DACs can do 24/192 nicely with coax or bnc but with optical nothing I have can output and transmit a 24/192 signal without lots of static.  Actually I'm not sure any of them are listentoable at 24/174.  plus if you are moving cables and hit the optical cable - the static gets much worse. It's just too picky.  I also have several devices that offer optical out but I've noticed that the output on my Oppo universal player is much brighter/stronger than all other optical outputs that I have - so depending on what chip and circuit you have, what type of adapters you're using and the cable you could be loosing a too much signal by the time it gets picked up.  just observations from playing with my own system.
   
  note, my optical works flawlessly if I keep it below 24/96


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





dsan said:


> Mine came today and I am very happy with the purchase
> but one thing is bothering me when I change my computer settings to
> 24bit 192k optical line out to Fiio E17,it generates bad noise. Lowering it to 24bit 96k makes it fine again.
> 
> Any idea?


 

 same as above... can you go coax instead?


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Quick question:
> 
> For the E17, is there a way to disable the DAC and only use the amplification feature? I want to use the Asus Xonar DX for games (for superior positional sounds) and the E17+DAC for music/light gaming.


 

 you don't disable the DAC you just connect to it through an analog connection (vise digital) - this obviously bypasses the DAC.


----------



## dexvx

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You would plug into "front jack" you may need to set it up though depeninng on a few things.
> 
> 
> There are some cards that can include the surround effect with the digital out.....and you can try that with the gaming threads but for now, front jack


 
   
  Thanks, I have this working now. I have a stereo jack from the Front-Out to the Aux in and it works off my Asus Xonar DX.
   
  Although there is one small issue. If I select AUX input on the E17 and have the USB plugged in at the same time, I hear this very annoying high pitched whine.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> Thanks, I have this working now. I have a stereo jack from the Front-Out to the Aux in and it works off my Asus Xonar DX.
> 
> Although there is one small issue. If I select AUX input on the E17 and have the USB plugged in at the same time, I hear this very annoying high pitched whine.


 
  That shouldn't be happening, but I think I know what is happening...interference. When I put my USB wires or 3.5mm transfer wires near my lamp, a high pitched squeel would come in. Isolate the wires away from electric things


----------



## dexvx

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That shouldn't be happening, but I think I know what is happening...interference. When I put my USB wires or 3.5mm transfer wires near my lamp, a high pitched squeel would come in. Isolate the wires away from electric things


 
   
  I don't think it's any interference. I unplugged the USB, as I posted earlier. Today, I tried plugging it back in (using AUX input), and now it sounds fine. Must be one of those flubs.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> I don't think it's any interference. I unplugged the USB, as I posted earlier. Today, I tried plugging it back in (using AUX input), and now it sounds fine. Must be one of those flubs.


 
  can you try with another computer and USB cable? Differnt computer and USB port. It may be isolated but if not, you may have a defective unit.


----------



## OPTiK

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> I think it's been covered much earlier in this thread or perhaps in another thread, but I though I'd post it anyhow.
> 
> Below is the kludge I've worked up to get digital audio out of my iPad and into my E17.  Luckily, I'm not in the habit of trying to lug this around with me, but it's nice to know I can if I want to.
> 
> ...


 

 FYI.. that hub isnt powered so the battery backup you're using is providing the mA that the e17 needs. I did some quick searching and found a [size=small]Ultra Aluminus powered hub that would provide enough power for $15. This would remove the Targus battery backup from the mix.[/size]


----------



## dexvx

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> can you try with another computer and USB cable? Differnt computer and USB port. It may be isolated but if not, you may have a defective unit.


 
   
  I don't think my unit is defective. I tried it on my laptop and no issue.
   
  The only defect I have is that one pixel column of the LCD on my E17 died, so there's a line of dead pixels.


----------



## bowei006

Thanks for trying it on the laptop. Diagnosing it is important. Try different usb port on your desktop and avoid placing on top of other cables


The screens are sadly a bit fragile


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





optik said:


> FYI.. that hub isnt powered so the battery backup you're using is providing the mA that the e17 needs. I did some quick searching and found a [size=small]Ultra Aluminus powered hub that would provide enough power for $15. This would remove the Targus battery backup from the mix.[/size]


 

 But a powered hub requires a mains power supply so you lose portability. Or have I missed something about the Ultra Aluminus?
   
  As documented earlier in this thread I went for the Matrix USB to SPDIF solution which the iPad drives quite effectively, and at 24 bit / 96K rates.
   
  It's more portable but a little more expensive.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> But a powered hub requires a mains power supply so you lose portability. Or have I missed something about the Ultra Aluminus?
> 
> As documented earlier in this thread I went for the Matrix USB to SPDIF solution which the iPad drives quite effectively, and at 24 bit / 96K rates.
> 
> It's more portable but a little more expensive.


 
  I think the problem now is WHERE Apple limits the files, do they downsample or convert files past 48/16 at the DAC stage, or with iTunes before it leaves(probably not) or when it arrives. There were quotes from an Apple tech that the iPAD is limited to 48/16, can't find it though.


----------



## MattTCG

I've added a fiio e9 to dock with the e17. What is the best way/cable to connect my ipod to this setup?
   
  thanks in advance bowei!!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I've added a fiio e9 to dock with the e17. What is the best way/cable to connect my ipod to this setup?
> 
> thanks in advance bowei!!


 
  If in use with the iPOD then the only way in would be to use a LOD like the L10 or L11 with your own cable into the E9's Line in plug. I'm not sure if that plug is* 1/8 or 1/4 *but adapter as needed if needed. And that's the only way basically, using a plain transfer cable would use the iPod's amp which I wouldn't suggest, *with the E17 plugged in on top, the only think I think it will maybe do....not sure is apply EQ and pre amp to it if it is set in the correct LO bypass region. *I am not sure of this bolded part, I am not sure if the E17's EQ and pre amp will be engaged if the E9 is used with line in.
   
  Most people use this setup with a USB cable in with the E9's back USB in slot, *I believe S/PDIF through the E17 can also work.*
   
  Never owned the E9, but that's what I take it.
   
   
  The bolded parts, I am unsure of, but it probably is accurate, I'm sure I heard of them somewhere before.....too much posting


----------



## xeroian

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I think the problem now is WHERE Apple limits the files, do they downsample or convert files past 48/16 at the DAC stage, or with iTunes before it leaves(probably not) or when it arrives. There were quotes from an Apple tech that the iPAD is limited to 48/16, can't find it though.


 
  Don't know about iTunes but if I use Dan Leehr's FLACplayer and an SPDIF connection then the E17 display tells me when they are 24bit / 96K. However if I play 24bit / 48K FLAC files the E17 says 16bit / 48K (not 24bit). I suspect maybe the E17 firmware doesn't have many display options programmed in.
   
  All the other flac playing apps. in the Apple store seem to downsample before output.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> Don't know about iTunes but if I use Dan Leehr's FLACplayer and an SPDIF connection then the E17 display tells me when they are 24bit / 96K. However if I play 24bit / 48K FLAC files the E17 says 16bit / 48K (not 24bit). I suspect maybe the E17 firmware doesn't have many display options programmed in.
> 
> All the other flac playing apps. in the Apple store seem to downsample before output.


 
  You are right, it doesn't, both 44.1 and 48 show up as 48 in case you are wondering and 88.2KHz and 96KHz show up as 96KHz and 176.4KHz and 192KHz show up as 192KHz. 
   
  Hmm, we can also not rely on the E17, but so far it seems...the player may be the one doing it and Dan Leehr should get a head fi account so I can ask him.


----------



## xeroian

bowei006 said:


> You are right, it doesn't, both 44.1 and 48 show up as 48 in case you are wondering and 88.2KHz and 96KHz show up as 96KHz and 176.4KHz and 192KHz show up as 192KHz.
> 
> Hmm, we can also not rely on the E17, but so far it seems...the player may be the one doing it and Dan Leehr should get a head fi account so I can ask him.





Try Leehro. Dan has been a member for over a year.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> Try Leehro. Dan has been a member for over a year.


 
  Thanks!


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





visanj said:


> Now I'm starting to enjoy E17....I think burin-in is required for this
> 
> A.R.Rahman's music (best recording in indian music) is coming alive.....


 
   
  Now I started hating my Clip+ due to E17 (earlier I was hating E17 as it was much brighter compared to my Clip+). Now E17 is getting smoother
   
  In one word E17 is awesome. I really can't go back to my Clip+. I can't believe myself. I was admiring Clip+ a lot (if you refer my earlier posts)
   
  Only thing is, if E17 is supported by android devices through USB OTG it will be great
   
  Anyone tried with new Jelly Bean device (Nexus 7)?


----------



## Vizknox

I have the AKG 702s and tried using the e7, but the combo couldn't get some of my older music to a loudness I would like. Can the e17 play an album like Dark Side of the Moon louder than the e7, and what is the spec on an amp that I should look at when I'm comparing amps to determine which can play louder?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





vizknox said:


> I have the AKG 702s and tried using the e7, but the combo couldn't get some of my older music to a loudness I would like. Can the e17 play an album like Dark Side of the Moon louder than the e7, and what is the spec on an amp that I should look at when I'm comparing amps to determine which can play louder?


 
  One is personal experience, by knowing what the driveability of your headphone is like, sensitivity and impendece are good "maybe"s but don't hold a good answer, each headphone is different in driveability, knowing how yours is driven is one thing.
   
   
  
 E17=215mW @ 32 ohms (12dB gain)
 E11=200mW @ 32 ohms (High voltage mode)
  
 E17= 30mW @300 ohms (12dB gain)
 E11= 35mW @300 ohms (High voltage mode)
  
 E17= 250 mW @ 16 ohms (12dB gain)
 E11= 300mW @ 16 ohms (High voltage mode)
   
  This is another indicator. Depending on what impendence your headphone is closer to, the E17 or E11 may be more "powerful"
   
  For me with the Q701's, the E17 was JUST loud enough for oldies albums and Pink Floyd, maybe getting a desktop amp instead and using E7 as DAC will do


----------



## Vizknox

Thanks that really helped. I'll go search another forum for suggestions on cheap beginners amps.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





vizknox said:


> Thanks that really helped. I'll go search another forum for suggestions on cheap beginners amps.


 
  Getting help from multiple places is awesome, but just so you know, head fi deals with everything in amps. Getting a desktop amp would be best, most portable amps at the $150 price range that are portableand have DAC's at this price range won't have super powers either.


----------



## IKE60

optik said:


> FYI.. that hub isnt powered so the battery backup you're using is providing the mA that the e17 needs. I did some quick searching and found a [COLOR=222222]Ultra Aluminus powered hub that would provide enough power for $15. This would remove the Targus battery backup from the mix.[/COLOR]




My intent was portability, and as Xeroian said, a powered hub tethers you to an electrical outlet. I wish I had known about the Matrix USB DDC, but I already sank $50 into this setup.


----------



## Digeeedad

I received my E17 from B&H on Wednesday... 4 days ago. Being my 1rst headphone amp/DAC, I've been totally impressed and having a GREAT time rediscovering my music, using my
  KRK KNS8400 headphones.... absolutely astonishing improvements! The joy ended a few minutes ago, as my E17 will no longer power on!   I had been using it with my iTouch a few hours ago and when turning it off, still had a nearly full charge. Trying to power it on fails. The hold button is off. I have switched it on and off numerous times to no avail. Any ideas as to what may be happening or something I can do, before returning it? Definitely disappointing to say the least....

 *** OMG, newbie totally dumb user error! Was trying to power it on with hold switch in the down or OFF position! Geeeesh.... well happy again!


----------



## MattTCG

Does the light next to "exit" glow when you plug it into the usb port?


----------



## bluzeboy

yes!


----------



## OPTiK

Quote: 





xeroian said:


> But a powered hub requires a mains power supply so you lose portability. Or have I missed something about the Ultra Aluminus?
> 
> As documented earlier in this thread I went for the Matrix USB to SPDIF solution which the iPad drives quite effectively, and at 24 bit / 96K rates.
> 
> It's more portable but a little more expensive.


 
  Ahhh, didnt realize you were going portable..though thats a big portable rig lol. 
   
  I've actually been using the E17 with my JH16 and I've really been enjoying it! I scoured headfi to see if anyone else had tried the combo, but I couldnt find anything definitive. I'm glad I took the plunge, its a big improvement over my iPhone 4S!


----------



## meatball

Sounds good, but can not power on after few hours. Disappointing.....


----------



## meatball

Quote: 





digeeedad said:


> I received my E17 from B&H on Wednesday... 4 days ago. Being my 1rst headphone amp/DAC, I've been totally impressed and having a GREAT time rediscovering my music, using my
> KRK KNS8400 headphones.... absolutely astonishing improvements! The joy ended a few minutes ago, as my E17 will no longer power on!   I had been using it with my iTouch a few hours ago and when turning it off, still had a nearly full charge. Trying to power it on fails. The hold button is off. I have switched it on and off numerous times to no avail. Any ideas as to what may be happening or something I can do, before returning it? Definitely disappointing to say the least....
> 
> *** OMG, newbie totally dumb user error! Was trying to power it on with hold switch in the down or OFF position! Geeeesh.... well happy again!


 
   
   
   
 Hi. I got a same issue. I have used it for just four or five hours. Ready to return it, maybe give e17 another try, I don't know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




     It is good to know you have it back to live.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





meatball said:


> Hi. I got a same issue. I have used it for just four or five hours. Ready to return it, maybe give e17 another try, I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What happens when you plug it in through USB? Does the red light come on? Can you try a differnt computer AND OR differnt USB port?
   
  Is the hold switch enabled? Can you see "orange" in the HOLD location? Orange=locked 
   
  Will the device turn on? Can you use a pin with the reset button. 
   
  How about, engaging and then disengaging the hold switch(slide up, and then down, or vice versa) and then pressing power button?


----------



## meatball

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What happens when you plug it in through USB? Does the red light come on? Can you try a differnt computer AND OR differnt USB port?
> 
> Is the hold switch enabled? Can you see "orange" in the HOLD location? Orange=locked
> 
> ...


 
  I tried reset button with a pin. It works again. Thank you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope it will be ok in the future.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





meatball said:


> I tried reset button with a pin. It works again. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You're welcome.
   
  The E17 has been known to have periodic and really weird freezes sometimes. My instructions above should fix most weird freezes that happen.


----------



## odehib

If I were to get the e17, is there a way that I could plug it into my xbox 360?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





odehib said:


> If I were to get the e17, is there a way that I could plug it into my xbox 360?


 
   
  Sure, you can connect to the optical output in your xbox 360


----------



## odehib

Ok, thanks for the info. I'll probably be going for it, along with a set of hd598s.


----------



## ghardashyan

Hi. recently I received my E17 and got an issue described here but on E17. ((( + sometimes I get white ( or other  ) noise ( I mean I can't hear the music, I hear only static noise ) after toggling pause button.
  Is the device faulty? Can this be a motherboard/ USB problem?

 EDIT:

 More facts about this issue from me:

 1. When I don't use pause button on my software player ( foobar/ wmp ) and use stop button, everything is ok;
 2. This issue doesn't appear everytime;
 3. If problem appears and I turn off -> on E17 WITHOUT removing the USB, the problem is still there;
 4. If problem appears and I remove -> place back the USB WITHOUT turning off the device, sound is OK;
 5. If problem appears and I press stop -> play on my software player, sound is OK.


----------



## bowei006

ghardashyan said:


> Hi. recently I received my E17 and got an issue described here but on E17. (((
> Is the device faulty? Can this be a motherboard/ USB problem?




The clicking sound sadly does appear on the E17. From my experience, it usually but not always happens when you are at a gain too high or much more than what your headphone needs. Can you go down a gain setting? And still be loud enough?

The E10 has had a few updates, one of them was fixing a delay it would have, others if I remember correctly was fixing the 3.5mm jack to higher quality so the problem described in your link may not be the same or be constant throughout the FiiO line. I have not had the E10 but I had the E17 and I currently still have a E5 and have not heard of clicking problems with other devices.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The clicking sound sadly does appear on the E17. From my experience, it usually but not always happens when you are at a gain too high or much more than what your headphone needs. Can you go down a gain setting? And still be loud enough?
> The E10 has had a few updates, one of them was fixing a delay it would have, others if I remember correctly was fixing the 3.5mm jack to higher quality so the problem described in your link may not be the same or be constant throughout the FiiO line. I have not had the E10 but I had the E17 and I currently still have a E5 and have not heard of clicking problems with other devices.


 
   
  Sometimes I get the clicking sound, sometimes - sound is OK... Sometimes all I get is noise ( white/ pink I don'k know. ). The gain is @ factory deafult - 6DB.

 Can you please read the EDIT part of my post.
 Thanks.


----------



## Makalux

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)]I have been doing quite a bit of searching, but thought I would ask directly. Maybe someone can quickly give me advice![/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)]  [/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)] I have a cheap chinese ZTE android phone that I am using with both ATH M50 and Aurvana 3 IEMs. I have been thinking of getting a DAC/amp like the e17 both to use as an amp for the android phone (through the jack - seems usb solution for DAC usage still not possible) for volume and quality ( also as DAC for my laptop).[/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)] Do you think it is worth it or a good idea for android? Will quality be improved? any way of getting past double amping on android?[/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)]  [/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)] Thanks a million!!![/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)]  [/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.792969)] Cheers[/color]


----------



## bowei006

@maka
You will be amplyfing the sound comming out of your phone. Most android phonesdont have good audio out but i do not know about what you have. It may be better but usually... A amp with a android phone is mainly used if the volume isnt loud enough. Its up to you if its worth the E17s added features and amp tonality.

@ghard
It seems to be a USB or software problem then.

Is your windows settings correct? Is your foobar settings correct?

Can you use a new different USB cable, plug it into a different usb port on computer, set windows settings to 16/44.1 and try with itunes?


Or use with a different computer with itunes with settings above?

Try the reset switch?

Is your cables, unit or any connecting wire on top of other wires, i have had emi and noise come in when my units cables were near or on top of electrical wires.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It seems to be a USB or software problem then.
> Is your windows settings correct? Is your foobar settings correct?
> Can you use a new different USB cable, plug it into a different usb port on computer, set windows settings to 16/44.1 and try with itunes?
> Or use with a different computer with itunes with settings above?
> ...


 
  Thanks for response.
   
  Windows/ Foobar settings are correct. Tried all ports ( :-D ) on my work desktop, with multiple mini USB -> USB cables, tried also 16/44.1 - doesn't help.

 I doesn't use the device much at home ( maybe overall 30 minutes since received E17 ), so I have not reproduced his issue on my home desktop yet, only at work.
   
  Yup, there are lot of ( ~7 ) wires around the usb cable of E17. Can this cause the problem? Because it's only USB cable, I mean I've never heard about interference on USB cables...

 I'll try the reset switch...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Thanks for response.
> 
> Windows/ Foobar settings are correct. Tried all ports ( :-D ) on my work desktop, with multiple mini USB -> USB cables, tried also 16/44.1 - doesn't help.
> 
> ...


 
  Are all "enhancements" disabled? In foobar, are your sample rate settings past 96000? USB on E17 uses Class 1 drivers and only supports up to 96KHz with the E17 so trying to set to 192000 in foobar may cause problems.
   
  Please try at home. 
   
  Sometimes and somebody or two in this thread have had faulty USB cables that came with the E17
   
  Yes, I and others have had electrical interference over USB caused by adjacent devices.
   
  But please first try this at home as well.
   
  Does this problem happen on AUX in?


----------



## Digeeedad

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Hi. recently I received my E17 and got an issue described here but on E17. ((( + sometimes I get white ( or other  ) noise ( I mean I can't hear the music, I hear only static noise ) after toggling pause button.
> Is the device faulty? Can this be a motherboard/ USB problem?
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


 


 I received my E17 less than a week ago and have been having the SAME problem, as you describe. To me, it sounds like a distortion/crackling during high midrange to high playback i.e. electric guitar, piano etc. This is my 1rst headphone amp/DAC so, am a definite newbie at use and troubleshooting, but believe my Foobar player settings and computer device settings are correct, based on the great advice for set-up here. I too am using Foobar with the WASAPI plug-in. Here have been my observations...

 1. Gain setting on E17 makes no difference
  2. Problem mostly appears when selecting Output device... WASAPI : SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) using the Foobar preferences
 3. Using Foobar preference Output device... SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) the problem does not seem to occur
  4. Problem very seldom appears using other players, including the iTunes player, but has occurred occasionally
  5. The only way I'm able to stop the crackling/distortion, is to unplug and re-plug the USB cable from/in the E17
  6. Problem does not occur using aux to/from my iTouch, using the L9 adapter
  7. When using aux and the Output device SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) the E17 display indicates 96K 24bit
  8. When using the Output device WASAPI : SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) the display switches to 48k 16bit when playing songs from my iTunes library
  9. Problem appears to occur when E17 is cycling between the 96K 24bit and 48k 16 bit, which apparently even happens, when switching songs, stopping and pausing while playing songs and   using Foobar.
  10. I have not switched USB cables, but ghardashyan indicated above that doing so does not solve the problem
   
  If the above is correct, would this indicate a defect in the E17? Almost always happens if using Foobar and the WASAPI Fiio setting, but has occurred in other situations, such as when switching from iTouch L9 to USB where E17 switches from 48k 16 bit to 96K 24bit. Problem is remedied for a listening session if the USB cord unplugged/plugged, but if settings cycling occurs, crackling/distortion returns. Any suggestions/input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





digeeedad said:


> I received my E17 less than a week ago and have been having the SAME problem, as you describe. To me, it sounds like a distortion/crackling during high midrange to high playback i.e. electric guitar, piano etc. This is my 1rst headphone amp/DAC so, am a definite newbie at use and troubleshooting, but believe my Foobar player settings and computer device settings are correct, based on the great advice for set-up here. I too am using Foobar with the WASAPI plug-in. Here have been my observations...
> 
> 1. Gain setting on E17 makes no difference
> 2. Problem mostly appears when selecting Output device... WASAPI : SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) using the Foobar preferences
> ...


 
  It seems USB seems to be having issues..
   
  Can you try just USB with iTunes with Windows Sound Settings set to 16 bit 44100 KHz? Does it happen then?
   
  Instead of WASAPI, try ASIO, there is an E17 ASIO update driver here in case you need it:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615404/downloading-and-installation-guide-for-fiio-e17-asio-driver-the-beta-version


----------



## Digeeedad

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It seems USB seems to be having issues..
> 
> Can you try just USB with iTunes with Windows Sound Settings set to 16 bit 44100 KHz? Does it happen then?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Using the Windows Sound Setting of 16 bit 44100 khz..... yes, the same problem exists. Unplugging/plugging the USB cable fixes the problem until leaving iTunes then returning and begin playing again, which causes the crackling/distortion. Unplugging/plugging temporarily fixes the problem. Using the iTunes player itself does not involve the WASAPI plug-in right? Do you think this indicates an E17 defect? I REALLY like this thing, especially the portability, but am still with-in my return window... I bought if from B&H Photo and Video. Might be tempted to move to a desktop model like audioengine etc, but would HATE to do that!
  
  BTW.... the iTunes player is definitely inferior in sound quality to Foobar, to my ears.

 ** In looking around at reviews etc... it seems that the FiiO E10 also has this same problem, as noted in the forums here and elsewhere. For example from July 3rd 2012 Amazon review... "After trying the Fiio E10 DAC for a couple of weeks, I tired of having to reset it every time I paused my music for even a short time, and restarting my music. This involved unplugging/re-plugging the USB cable on the back of the E10, each time.After trying the Fiio E10 DAC for a couple of weeks, I tired of having to reset it every time I paused my music for even a short time, and restarting my music. This involved unplugging/re-plugging the USB cable on the back of the E10, each time." Hated to read that!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





digeeedad said:


> Using the Windows Sound Setting of 16 bit 44100 khz..... yes, the same problem exists. Unplugging/plugging the USB cable fixes the problem until leaving iTunes then returning and begin playing again, which causes the crackling/distortion. Unplugging/plugging temporarily fixes the problem. Using the iTunes player itself does not involve the WASAPI plug-in right? Do you think this indicates an E17 defect? I REALLY like this thing, especially the portability, but am still with-in my return window... I bought if from B&H Photo and Video. Might be tempted to move to a desktop model like audioengine etc, but would HATE to do that!
> 
> BTW.... the iTunes player is definitely inferior in sound quality to Foobar, to my ears.


 
  iTunes uses the default sound device you have selected in Windows Sound options.
   
*You can exchange for another one or get a full desktop unit. Whatever pleases you. You can get another one and test it out and get back to us on if it was a defect or not. But testing it at home, with another USB cable and other USB ports should be done.*
   
  IT is probably you. No offense. With all enhancements in iTunes be it soundcheck or EQ off and no enhancements or add ons enabled in foobar, even with WASAPI in foobar or Default audio device in iTunes, it would be extremely hard to tell the difference when no other audio is playing. WASAPI is there so that in case other audio starts playing on your computer, it won't lessen the audio comming through and leave you with less than 16bits of dynamic range which is said to be the perfect amount by some. WASAPI basically gives audio a seperate full audio channel so that in case other audio plays, resources and the other audio's own settings won't interfer wth your own audio and also gives more or dedicated system resources to it..... Even with all this fancy talk, in a enviroment where you are using iTunes with default audio device with no other audio playing and compare it ot foobar with both using no enhancements...the difference would be extremely hard if not night impossible to tell apart.
   
  I would say....you are imagining it and creating a placebo inside your head. It happens often, you are not the only one.


----------



## odehib

If I wanted to get an optical cable to connect my e17 to my xbox 360, would there be a difference between a cheaper cable and a pricier one? If so, are there any alternative ways to connect it?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





odehib said:


> If I wanted to get an optical cable to connect my e17 to my xbox 360, would there be a difference between a cheaper cable and a pricier one? If so, are there any alternative ways to connect it?
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


 
  Don't buy cables with bad reviews....sure, not all amazon reviews are accurate but it does say things sometimes. Don't get a cable that's too long.
   
  Other than that, cables under $20 are basically the same. There are speed and thickness associated with optical toslink cables but at $20 and under..they are rarely advertised and unknown and uncomparable. I recommend Monoprice or a good brand on Amazon....doesn't even have to be good brand, make sure to get the slim ones. The Monoprice fancy cables or ultra thick headed ones may not fit and are not recommended.
   
  The E17 accepts Mini toslink in, while the Xbox 360 accepts toslink..... I believe.


----------



## Digeeedad

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> iTunes uses the default sound device you have selected in Windows Sound options.
> 
> *You can exchange for another one or get a full desktop unit. Whatever pleases you. You can get another one and test it out and get back to us on if it was a defect or not. But testing it at home, with another USB cable and other USB ports should be done.*
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the replies! At 1rst I though you were referring to the crackling/distortion as being "inside my head"! lol Agree as to that possibility in comparing iTunes vs Foobar, but definitely seem to be hearing something different and improved, whether imagined or not... lol I tried all front and back panel USB sockets and a different USB cable and all show the same problem as outlined earlier. So does this probably indicate a problem with the E17... if others are experiencing similar problems I assume that a computeer USB/Windows issue is less likely?


----------



## bowei006

There have been others with issues but different ones. Some usb issues with crackling wrre fixed with a setting update, others with a new cable or pc or computer port.

Have you tried at home yet? 

If all fails then you can ask Fiio if they themselves have any solutions but read over and repeat my procedures on home PC as well.

Last step is return or exchange

Please note that bh is not an authorized dealer. Their does not seem to be E17 fakes yet and bh is reputable, but just letting you know. Fiio at this moment does not discriminate in providing support no matter where you bought it as long as its a real one.

The support and warranty statement above is from what fiio has previously said in this thread or others and does not reflect what they can or may do. I am not directly affiliated with fiio and can only give you an answer based off what i read from them


----------



## Digeeedad

Thanks again Panda-sama.... The computer I am using is my home computer, but we have 2 other computers in our house so I'll try the E17 on them as well, hadn't thought of that!


----------



## bowei006

Youre welcome. Repeat the procedures from my other post on your other computer as well. Thanks.


If it still has that problem. Then asking fiio if they have another solution and then exchanging it might be best.


----------



## Digeeedad

Been thinking a bit.... if it was the E17, doesn't it seem that it would also be a problem on Windows Media Player, Win Amp, Sirius XM player etc? Def out of my knowledge base here, but could it be just a settings problem with iTunes and Foobar players. Sirius internet connetction/player has no problem at all, nor do the others... weird!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





digeeedad said:


> Been thinking a bit.... if it was the E17, doesn't it seem that it would also be a problem on Windows Media Player, Win Amp, Sirius XM player etc? Def out of my knowledge base here, but could it be just a settings problem with iTunes and Foobar players. Sirius internet connetction/player has no problem at all, nor do the others... weird!


 
  Trying with other players is definatley a suggestion but iTunes generally covers the Windows default sound device setting.
   
  There could be something wrong with your E17 models USB chip
   
  Have you tried a reset yet?


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Are all "enhancements" disabled? In foobar, are your sample rate settings past 96000? USB on E17 uses Class 1 drivers and only supports up to 96KHz with the E17 so trying to set to 192000 in foobar may cause problems.
> 
> Please try at home.
> 
> ...


 
Tried at home: same. Reset button doesn't help. AUX in is ok. Foobar settings are ok... I really liked this device... ;-(
Bought this recently from mp4nation, so it is from new batch.
  EDIT:

*Works flawlessly on my work second PC. *


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Tried at home: same. Reset button doesn't help. AUX in is ok. Foobar settings are ok... I really liked this device... ;-(
> Bought this recently from mp4nation, so it is from new batch.


 
  It may be an incompatability with your computer or it may just be a defective device where USB chip is damaged or something inside. You can decide your next course of action. 
   
  FiiO has recommended buying locally in country so as to not have problems with shipping back a defective product half way across the world.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It may be an incompatability with your computer or it may just be a defective device where USB chip is damaged or something inside. You can decide your next course of action.
> 
> FiiO has recommended buying locally in country so as to not have problems with shipping back a defective product half way across the world.


 

The problem is: here in... Armenia you'll not be able to find any FiiO product... And now I'm in doubt what to do, months ago I've sent my damaged FA DBA-02 IEM's to seller ( GD AudioBase ) but they say they didn't receive anything...
  It seems I'll stick with defective E17. 
   
  EDIT:

*Works flawlessly on my work second PC. *


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> The problem is: here in... Armenia you'll not be able to find any FiiO product... And now I'm in doubt what to do, months ago I've sent my damaged FA DBA-02 IEM's to seller ( GD AudioBase ) but they say they didn't receive anything...
> It seems I'll stick with defective E17.


 
  Sorry. I only guessed you were in U.S.A. Your English is very good!
   
  WHAT!?? That does not sound good. I want to say to not let one bad experience ruin it ....but if you think it is defective,you can do something about it!!! If you want to be safe, you can ask FiiO personally if they can help you instead of going with mp4nation???


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Sorry. I only guessed you were in U.S.A. Your English is very good!
> 
> WHAT!?? That does not sound good. I want to say to not let one bad experience ruin it ....but if you think it is defective,you can do something about it!!! If you want to be safe, you can ask FiiO personally if they can help you instead of going with mp4nation???


 
Thanks for suggestion. Maybe I'll wait till weekend: all this stuff consumes lot of energy from me and decreases my productivity at work. Also I want to do some more tests to get fuller picture of the issue. 

*Digeeedad*, *bowei006* good luck to you.
   
  EDIT:

*Works flawlessly on my work second PC. *


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Thanks for suggestion. Maybe I'll wait till weekend: all this stuff consumes lot of energy from me and decreases my productivity at work. Also I want to do some more tests to get fuller picture of the issue.
> 
> *Digeeedad*, *bowei006* good luck to you.


 
  Diagnostics are important.
   
  Give all the luck to Digeeedad! I don't have any need for E17 luck haha


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, so I have the e17 and just bought the e09k. My question is this. When docked is the e17's 3.5mm jack still operational. I'd like to be able to use some of my hp's without adapters which is the reason for the question.
   
  thanks...


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> Okay, so I have the e17 and just bought the e09k. My question is this. When docked is the e17's 3.5mm jack still operational. I'd like to be able to use some of my hp's without adapters which is the reason for the question.
> 
> thanks...




I don't see a question mark 

... yes, you can.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I don't see a question mark
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Perfect!! Thank you for the response.


----------



## Bleether

I log on to this site periodically, and i am surprised to see some of the same posters posting in several threads. You guys are hardcore posters man! take a break from this site!!! lol


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bleether said:


> I log on to this site periodically, and i am surprised to see some of the same posters posting in several threads. You guys are hardcore posters man! take a break from this site!!! lol


 
  It's a drug. My wallet is emptying as we speak.


----------



## tigersinacage

Just ended up sending back an HRT Music Streamer II. Everything about the E17 beats it, I found the HRT harsh in comparison. The E17 is so much warmer, plus when you add in the fact that it's really portable, plus an amp.. it's a no brainer really.
   
  I was surprised though, was expecting for the HRT to be a whole lot better, seeing as its only function is a DAC. Maybe it was just a bad match for my DT880's. Either way...
   
  E17 FTW!


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote:


ghardashyan said:


> Hi. recently I received my E17 and got an issue described here but on E17. ((( + sometimes I get white ( or other  ) noise ( I mean I can't hear the music, I hear only static noise ) after toggling pause button.
> Is the device faulty? Can this be a motherboard/ USB problem?
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


   
   
   
  Quote: 





digeeedad said:


> I received my E17 less than a week ago and have been having the SAME problem, as you describe. To me, it sounds like a distortion/crackling during high midrange to high playback i.e. electric guitar, piano etc. This is my 1rst headphone amp/DAC so, am a definite newbie at use and troubleshooting, but believe my Foobar player settings and computer device settings are correct, based on the great advice for set-up here. I too am using Foobar with the WASAPI plug-in. Here have been my observations...
> 
> 1. Gain setting on E17 makes no difference
> 2. Problem mostly appears when selecting Output device... WASAPI : SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) using the Foobar preferences
> ...


 
  Hi again!

More information from me, maybe this'll be useful for somebody...

 Just tried WASAPI: SPDIF interface. @ 24 / 96 setting sound is OK until first ( or second ) pause/ play. After that pause/ play you get very-very distorted sound. Without WASAPI interface problem still exists but appears more rarely. Tried this with different cables/ USB ports/ motherboards ( ASUS, Foxconn... )/ OS ( WinXP/ Win7 ), so it's definitely not cable/ USB/ PC/ OS/ motherboard/ interference problem.
*But... @ 16 / 48 setting everything is OK. *

*So, if you have such symptoms, you definitely have a defective device ( it seems like the USB receiver is faulty in a such device ).
 On the good side you get fully functioning 16 / 48 DAC via USB.*

Going to contact FiiO or MP4Nation customer support...
  
  EDIT:

*Works flawlessly on my work second PC. *


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> ghardashyan said:
> ...


 
  I have the same problem with my NFB 12.1...except its a lot less .....prevalent. The White noise happens when it is set on 192KHz or even higher as the NFB supports over sampling  and windows plays something. If youtube or windows sound plays when it is on the high setting, constant white noise happens on my NFB unit. It never happened with my E17.
   
  In Windows sound properties, does the device have exclusive control?


----------



## MattTCG

This same issue happens for me with the nfb5. Bowei, please pm me if you find a fix.
   
  thanks..


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> This same issue happens for me with the nfb5. Bowei, please pm me if you find a fix.
> 
> thanks..


 
  I'll let you know Matt


----------



## dsan

its been about a month since i got my e17 and i used it everyday.
   
  I love it. But it does have that 'tick' noise that appears every few minutes or ten minutes.
  Its not strong but it is def there.
   
   
   
  Anyway, what does gain do? does it distort or damage the sound when increased?
  0gain was enough for my phones but just curious


----------



## MattTCG

I always start at +0 on the gain and raise it only when necessary. Some of my harder to drive hp's do need some additional gain. ie modded fostex t50's. It your hp is plenty loud at 25-30 then you probably don't need to add any gain.


----------



## Bleether

So it has been months since i got my E17, I still use it every day. I love this thing, well worth the money i pad for it.


----------



## Digeeedad

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hi again!
> 
> ...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





digeeedad said:


>


 
  Good luck! The E11 has a tad bit more power but as you don't use the DAC..which I suggest you do.....a portable amp is fine.


----------



## autoexec

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I always start at +0 on the gain and raise it only when necessary. Some of my harder to drive hp's do need some additional gain. ie modded fostex t50's. It your hp is plenty loud at 25-30 then you probably don't need to add any gain.


 
   
  +1
  You really should start at 0 gain. At first I thought my DT 1350 needed +6 gain when using the E17 as DAC/amp, but it just sounds right to just 0 with volume 28-36. Much cleaner to my ears compared to +6 gain with volume 24-30 (using max volume in wasapi/asio). However when paired to my J3, I use +6 gain to have some juice in it. I really love my E17.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> In Windows sound properties, does the device have exclusive control?


 
  Yes it has. Actually as a software developer I've tried all variants. 

 P.S. Just mailed FiiO customer support.


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> ghardashyan said:
> ...


 
   
  Just to make this even more fun:  mine does this only on my laptop, and does it in Windows 7 and Ubuntu.  But on Lubuntu, it works fine.
   
  Of course my laptop (a Dell Latitude XT) is very poorly grounded, so who knows.  Certain outlets I have plugged it into make the touchscreen go crazy because of this model's grounding issues.  I have just decided that it doesn't play well with some USB chips or systems, because it works fine with every other system I have thrown at it.
   
  Good luck on the warranty work though, I am interested to see what they have to say on the matter


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Just to make this even more fun:  mine does this only on my laptop, and does it in Windows 7 and Ubuntu.  But on Lubuntu, it works fine.
> 
> Of course my laptop (a Dell Latitude XT) is very poorly grounded, so who knows.  Certain outlets I have plugged it into make the touchscreen go crazy because of this model's grounding issues.  I have just decided that it doesn't play well with some USB chips or systems, because it works fine with every other system I have thrown at it.
> 
> Good luck on the warranty work though, I am interested to see what they have to say on the matter


 
  Hmm...


----------



## sidisnotmyname

Hello everyone. This would be my very first post. I would like to start with thoughts on newly acquired Alpen
   
  Setup
  Retina Macbook Pro (rMBP) -- usb connector -- FiiO E17 -- DT 770
   
  Volume
  iTunes mid
  rMBP mid
   
  Treble 0
  Bass 0
   
  EQ (iTunes) 
  Flat
   
  Song
  The Black Keys - Tighten Up
   
  e17 volume at 30 (max volume 60)
   
  gain ~ output
  0db - laptop still louder than the amp
  6db - laptop still louder than the amp
  12db - amp matched the laptop at 12db gain.
   
  ================================================
   
  settings are the same except for e17 at 45 (max volume 60)
   
  gain 
  0db - laptop still louder than the amp
  6db - somehow closer to the laptop
  12db - amp louder than laptop
   
  ================================================
   
  settings are the same except for e17 at 58 (max volume 60)
   
  gain
  0db - almost at par with the loudness of the laptop
  6db - amp louder than the laptop
  12db - amp louder than the laptop
   
  ================================================
   
  lows, mids and highs
   
  Changed EQ in iTunes to rock (notice that the EQ works on the e17)
   
  I used the setting where the amp meets the laptop at volume levels 
  E17 volume at 30, with 12db gain.
  I then changed the laptop's volume a few more steps making it a 3/4 of the whole volume bar.
  I didn't notice any difference not until I started to change Treble and Bass of the E17, the lows tend to stay longer, highs are crisp and mids are clearer. 
   
  This is how I thought I would be reviewing an amp/DAC as I would understand how amplification works, and If we talk about the practical use of DAC wherein this case would replace what the laptop has. I am a newbie, yes.* My question is, how to maximise the e17's potential, with the setup that I have. And am I doing it right? (test, setup etc.). In terms of gain, is there anything that I need to consider? by putting to 12db gain, is that the way to maximise the e17?*
   
  I did not know that the laptop (rMBP) has a good output on its own but still the E17 is a good addition since you couldn't have an output better than the e17 can do at the time the sound went better and louder than the laptop. In addition a complete control of treble and bass makes the e17 a powerful amp.


----------



## ClieOS

Just be sure to max out the volume bar on your Macbook (on iTune and on sound panel) and use E17 for volume control. 

The point about gain is, always use the lowest gain setting if you can get enough volume out of it. If you can't, then you move up to the next higher setting. If 12dB is what you need to be, then it is the best for you.


----------



## MattTCG

What ohm version of the 770's are you using?


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Just to make this even more fun:  mine does this only on my laptop, and does it in Windows 7 and Ubuntu.  But on Lubuntu, it works fine.
> 
> Of course my laptop (a Dell Latitude XT) is very poorly grounded, so who knows.  Certain outlets I have plugged it into make the touchscreen go crazy because of this model's grounding issues.  I have just decided that it doesn't play well with some USB chips or systems, because it works fine with every other system I have thrown at it.
> 
> Good luck on the warranty work though, I am interested to see what they have to say on the matter


 
  Your post... It changed my world view! :-D Tried my E17 on a third PC and it works flawlessly even with WASAPI and 24 / 96. Wow! Can you explain this? 
 It seems that PC's are defective and not the E17! :-D

 I'll change my previous posts: I don't want reduce FiiO's good reputation.
 False alarm, haha.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Your post... It changed my world view! :-D Tried my E17 on a third PC and it works flawlessly even with WASAPI and 24 / 96. Wow! Can you explain this?
> It seems that PC's are defective and not the E17! :-D
> 
> I'll change my previous posts: I don't want reduce FiiO's good reputation.
> False alarm, haha.


 
  I guess I need to now ask people to check it with 3 computers......haha


----------



## harryyeo

Strange thing's happening with my E17.
   
  When I try to playback my music using Optical Toslink to E17 with foobar and set to DS 24/192, the music keeps stuttering on my HD598 (all settings at default).
  But when I switch over to using the USB instead and DS 24/96, there no problem at all using the same headphones.
  Really strange.
   
  I wonder if my optical cable is faulty or something else is up.
  In the meanwhile, I'll just keep using the USB.


----------



## ClieOS

You have to make sure you have set the Foobar output correctly and be sure to disable all the decoding formats (DTS, Dolby, etc) in your SPDIF output.


----------



## dsan

I havent used any expensive DAC and Amp for my phones so I do not really know how the sound changes but
  as far as the gears Ive used so far, ($50-$400 ranges)  they all sounded the same. (except Tube amps)
   
  I am starting  to believe there really is no change in sound if it is over certain level.
  Or is there a real wonderland and Peterpan where the poor will never see and find out?


----------



## bowei006

You have to learn and experience. After a while and time... With sadly spending money and stuff, you can hear the difference between amps and choose one you like


----------



## jerg

Received my E17's yesterday, such a huge upgrade from my E7. My Hifiman HE400s open up much more now in sound, bass gets more 'growl', 3D imaging improves noticeably, general mids/treble signature seems to be retained from the E7 to the E17. The build quality seems to have improved quite a bit, the E17s feel very nice in the hand. The 'hold' button is glorious.
   
  Best of all, these can drive my HE400s VERY loud without any background noise coming in, very nice.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jerg said:


> Received my E17's yesterday, such a huge upgrade from my E7. My Hifiman HE400s open up much more now in sound, bass gets more 'growl', 3D imaging improves noticeably, general mids/treble signature seems to be retained from the E7 to the E17. The build quality seems to have improved quite a bit, the E17s feel very nice in the hand. The 'hold' button is glorious.
> 
> Best of all, these can drive my HE400s VERY loud without any background noise coming in, very nice.


 
  Is that Guts from Berserk in your avatar!?


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Is that Guts from Berserk in your avatar!?


 
   
  Yeah just an old drawing I did.
   
   
   
   
  Anyway the female vocals definitely bloom better out of my HE400s with the E17s, they often sounded thin with the E7 (it was one of the very few flaws I nitpicked when I just got the headphones).


----------



## hummel

Next week i'll be getting my fiio e17, when I will connect the device to my imac whats the best cable i should use ?
  3,5 mm to 3,5 mm or the optical ? and if it is the optical should it be like this ? 
  optical 3,5 mm -> fiio e17 -> optical 3,5mm
  optical 3,5 mm -> fiio e17 - > 3,5 mm
   
  which of the two is the best?
   
  thx


----------



## evanchambers

Quote: 





hummel said:


> Next week i'll be getting my fiio e17, when I will connect the device to my imac whats the best cable i should use ?
> 3,5 mm to 3,5 mm or the optical ? and if it is the optical should it be like this ?
> optical 3,5 mm -> fiio e17 -> optical 3,5mm
> optical 3,5 mm -> fiio e17 - > 3,5 mm
> ...


 
  it would be the second, usb would work too.
   
  the first option is useless and not possible, digital in to digital out would make the e17 unnecessary, and it only has one output to a 3.5mm headphone jack.
   
  usb > e17 > headphones limited to 24bit 96khz
  opti > E17 > headphones 
   
  would be your options


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hummel said:


> Next week i'll be getting my fiio e17, when I will connect the device to my imac whats the best cable i should use ?
> 3,5 mm to 3,5 mm or the optical ? and if it is the optical should it be like this ?
> optical 3,5 mm -> fiio e17 -> optical 3,5mm
> optical 3,5 mm -> fiio e17 - > 3,5 mm
> ...


 
  For iMac
   
  Mini Toslink (3.5mm) to mini toslink (3.5mm) where one end goes into iMac and other into E17 would be best. S/PDIF on E17 supports 192KHz @ 24 bit.
   
  USB would also be good and is limited to 96KHz @ 24 bit
   
  Heres a video I made:
  http://youtu.be/FXJm0XmVyus
   
   
   


jerg said:


> Yeah just an old drawing I did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Shameless advertising incomming:
   
  We have an anime club here
http://www.head-fi.org/t/586040/official-asian-anime-manga-and-music-lounge
   
  Basically it generally moves fast and has members talking about many subjects from Audio, DIY audio,snake oil stuff to everything on computers including the good ole anime and what not. You don't have to keep up, just drop by, say some stuff you like, random rant on something ubelieveable you saw or whatever. You don't need to follow and reply toe verything  So yeah, we would love to have you


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





jerg said:


> Received my E17's yesterday, such a huge upgrade from my E7. My Hifiman HE400s open up much more now in sound, bass gets more 'growl', 3D imaging improves noticeably, general mids/treble signature seems to be retained from the E7 to the E17. The build quality seems to have improved quite a bit, the E17s feel very nice in the hand. The 'hold' button is glorious.
> 
> Best of all, these can drive my HE400s VERY loud without any background noise coming in, very nice.


 
   
  I tried to tell "the boys" over at the he400 thread just how good that the he400 sounded on the e17, but I think that there were a few noses turned up. It's alright though...each to his own. I have a nice full size desktop amp, but the e17, now with the e09k, get plenty of play.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I tried to tell "the boys" over at the he400 thread just how good that the he400 sounded on the e17, but I think that there were a few noses turned up. It's alright though...each to his own. I have a nice full size desktop amp, but the e17, now with the e09k, get plenty of play.


 
  Some might want more accuracy, transparency, speed and clean-ness than the E17 can produce.


----------



## hummel

ok i will buy a mini toslink then, is there alot of difference in brands? which one should in get? and what optcal cable should i get also?
  thx


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hummel said:


> ok i will buy a mini toslink then, is there alot of difference in brands? which one should in get? and what optcal cable should i get also?
> thx


 
  Get one that is light but has good reviews. Reviews on buying site are more like feedback. They basically will all say it sounds great but look for ones that say stuff about build quality. don't go super expensive $20 total after shipping is enough IF EVEN THAT. At this price range, Optical toslink cables will generaly not advertise (or even accurately have) speed(MHz/Hz) and fiber optic thickness that most have in very expensive ones. As such, it is impossible to compare the sound of each one. Just a good quality one. I recommend mono price or any other from amazon with decent reviews
   
  DO NOT GET THE HEAVY FANCY CABLES FROM MONO PRICE OR OTHER SUPER THICK ONES.......they are for A/V dedicated home theatre setups.


----------



## hzjoy

Just got my E17 today and honestly... my onboard sound thumps harder than this, I don't get it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hzjoy said:


> Just got my E17 today and honestly... my onboard sound thumps harder than this, I don't get it.


 
  What is your onboard?
   
  It may take time...but really. Especially when the E17 comes with EQ.....


----------



## sygyzy

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Get one that is light but has good reviews. Reviews on buying site are more like feedback. They basically will all say it sounds great but look for ones that say stuff about build quality. don't go super expensive $20 total after shipping is enough IF EVEN THAT. At this price range, Optical toslink cables will generaly not advertise (or even accurately have) speed(MHz/Hz) and fiber optic thickness that most have in very expensive ones. As such, it is impossible to compare the sound of each one. Just a good quality one. I recommend mono price or any other from amazon with decent reviews
> 
> DO NOT GET THE HEAVY FANCY CABLES FROM MONO PRICE OR OTHER SUPER THICK ONES.......they are for A/V dedicated home theatre setups.


 
  With all due respect, Monoprice is the one place that does't rip you off. Warn him about buying a $500 interconnect from Best Buy but not Monoprice. First, they don't have $500 cables. And even the "premium" version of a optical toslink from them is $4 for 1.5 feet


----------



## sidisnotmyname

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Just be sure to max out the volume bar on your Macbook (on iTune and on sound panel) and use E17 for volume control.
> The point about gain is, always use the lowest gain setting if you can get enough volume out of it. If you can't, then you move up to the next higher setting. If 12dB is what you need to be, then it is the best for you.


 
   
  Thanks ClieOS for the tip! I'd notice that when im going for a full volume of the laptop, I hear more tones, instruments, than usual. I will give it a test later when I get back home for full volumes on both and make adjustments with the amp itself.
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> What ohm version of the 770's are you using?


 
   
  Oh, I forgot to mention its an 80ohm!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sygyzy said:


> With all due respect, Monoprice is the one place that does't rip you off. Warn him about buying a $500 interconnect from Best Buy but not Monoprice. First, they don't have $500 cables. And even the "premium" version of a optical toslink from them is $4 for 1.5 feet


 
  I must have forgot to say that I recommend going to Monoprice. Monoprice has two versions of Optical Toslink, regular thin and fancy. Don't get the fancy. Not for the e17. I did. Worst mistake for a portable unit. IT is heavily imobile, and actually swings the e17.


----------



## MaximumSandvich

I just got my E17 today, night and day compared to my old E7, which is heading out the door on ebay soon!


----------



## DiscoBurger

Quote: 





> I just got my E17 today, night and day compared to my old E7, which is heading out the door on ebay soon!


 
   
   
  Really??? so glad I didn't get that e7. What differences are you noticing off the bat?


----------



## Digeeedad

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Heres a video I made:
> http://youtu.be/FXJm0XmVyus


 

 Wow.... "never made the connection" that the you here is the guy in those great videos!   Originally just happened across your videos re: E17 on YouTube, when researching which DAC/headphone amp to buy. Have watched several others since and you do a GREAT job and make things more easily understood by we "newbies"!  Thanks! and glad to "meet you"!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





digeeedad said:


> Wow.... "never made the connection" that the you here is the guy in those great videos!   Originally just happened across your videos re: E17 on YouTube, when researching which DAC/headphone amp to buy. Have watched several others since and you do a GREAT job and make things more easily understood by we "newbies"!  Thanks! and glad to "meet you!


 
  I use a different Youtube username, but I state bowei006 in almost all my videos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and half of them (ok 30% approx) have links to head fi with my posts haha.
   
  Thank you for your impressions on my channel. I mean no disrespect in the word newbies. I take it exactly as is and am blunt with the word. Just new commers that is. My optical and coaxil video is directed at upper mid fi to anything below. Think HD600 and below level. Get any higher and people really start debating coaxil and optical and various other ones.
   
   
  I like making video's and it helps when people recognize me(many have recognized me haha)


----------



## Digeeedad

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I like making video's and it helps when people recognize me(many have recognized me haha)


 
   
  In your greatly informative video "Monoprice Fancy Premium Toslink Cable and Adapter Review", you show the quality difference between 2 Toslink to 3.5 mini Toslink adapters. Do you remember where you ordered the adapter that had the good physical connection from?


----------



## bowei006

Sorry no. But thats one reason why i hesitate on recommending a cable as you never know. Sadly, monoprice adapters have this problem  the good ones, i got from micca.


----------



## TonyRS

Hey Everybody!
   
  I am planning on getting the E17's for my vacation!
   
  Do they work on Macbooks? Also, is this a huge increase from the E10's? 
   
  Thanks!
   
  - Tony.


----------



## kenman345

I use it with my MacBook Air. Works wonderfully. It's pretty much set up for plug and play use now.
  Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Hey Everybody!
> 
> I am planning on getting the E17's for my vacation!
> 
> ...


----------



## bowei006

Yes it works with Macs.


Headfonia has a review for this. He said it is better but how much better and if you care is different from person to person


----------



## clone1008

Nice review


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes it works with Macs.
> Headfonia has a review for this. He said it is better but how much better and if you care is different from person to person


 
   
  Headfonia reviews are spotty at best, way too subjective for me to take seriously. I'd take a Tyll or purrin review over em any day.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jerg said:


> Headfonia reviews are spotty at best, way too subjective for me to take seriously. I'd take a Tyll or purrin review over em any day.


 
  I use a combo of many reviews that I have faith in. I like headfonia for that pure reason that he is down to earth and bases his own reviews on his subjective opinion on what he personally likes
   
  I use Tyll's and CLIEOS and various other ones that have reviews with stuff I am looking for.


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> Strange thing's happening with my E17.
> 
> When I try to playback my music using Optical Toslink to E17 with foobar and set to DS 24/192, the music keeps stuttering on my HD598 (all settings at default).
> But when I switch over to using the USB instead and DS 24/96, there no problem at all using the same headphones.
> ...


 
  again, it's hard to transport 24/192 on optical and I think optical cables have the highest level of jitter as another other cable so thats just what you get sometimes.  You'd probably be fine with COAX.


----------



## HighFiguy

very pleased with the e17, amplifies my k550 plenty for a short and sweet computer rig


----------



## HighFiguy

IMO if your looking for a dacamp solution, look no further, its built very well, looks sleek and it even drives the 650's well enough, its even a good portable amp, not that i use it that much for that purpose anyways, overall amazing product for the price


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





kenman345 said:


> I use it with my MacBook Air. Works wonderfully. It's pretty much set up for plug and play use now.


 
  Nice! Do you have to use an app with the E17 or how does it work?


----------



## bowei006

No additional software. With both optical or usb. You have to select the e17 or optical out in sound or midi setup if it doesnt go to it by default.


----------



## kenman345

It's just a simple setting in your "Sound" section of the "System Preferences" Panel. really really simple. I keep my system preferences icon in my dock, so I have about 3-5 clicks and i'm ready to go. Unfortunately I am waiting on my warrantied FiiO E17 (unit had optical converter get stuck, sent it in, now upset when I paid for two day shipping originally and they didn't send me the new one with two day shipping). I'll hopefully get it today and report back on the exact process later. I also use BitPerfect to make sure I am outputing the best quality. Sometime it only seems to be limited to 16/48
  Quote: 





tonyrs said:


> Nice! Do you have to use an app with the E17 or how does it work?


----------



## TonyRS

Quote: 





kenman345 said:


> It's just a simple setting in your "Sound" section of the "System Preferences" Panel. really really simple. I keep my system preferences icon in my dock, so I have about 3-5 clicks and i'm ready to go. Unfortunately I am waiting on my warrantied FiiO E17 (unit had optical converter get stuck, sent it in, now upset when I paid for two day shipping originally and they didn't send me the new one with two day shipping). I'll hopefully get it today and report back on the exact process later. I also use BitPerfect to make sure I am outputing the best quality. Sometime it only seems to be limited to 16/48


 
  Im having trouble playing Flac's on my Mac. Winamp doesn't seem to read FLAC on Mac for some reason.. What program do you play your music in?


----------



## electrao

vox: http://voxapp.didgeroo.com/
  audirvana free: http://code.google.com/p/audirvana/
   
  Both are both free and good with FLAC files.
  Vox as a very neat menu bar control to keep out of the way and lots of options to tailor the reproduction.


----------



## hummel

Got my Fiio e17 today and i must say im very pleased with it in combination with my sennheiser hd 598
  I got it connected through usb atm cuz im waiting on my optical cable and toslink adapter to come in the mail..
  The sound defenitely improved, everything sounds much clearer en detailed...as for the bass on the sennheiser, this is definitely a step up. U can even go as high that the headphone starts to rumble with the bass set to max..but there's no need for that, but maybe good to know for ppl in the same position as me.
  Good purshase for me


----------



## torana355

Just got my E17 today and wow, it has made my HD485's sound so much better then plugging them into my Yamaha AV amp or my iMac directly. Now to decide on what new headphones i want to get


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





torana355 said:


> Just got my E17 today and wow, it has made my HD485's sound so much better then plugging them into my Yamaha AV amp or my iMac directly. Now to decide on what new headphones i want to get


 
   
  How much do you have to spend? You can pm me if you need help...


----------



## torana355

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> How much do you have to spend? You can pm me if you need help...


 
   
  After much reading i just ordered the Hifiman HE-400. Do you think i made a good choice for listening to Rock/Metal and Hiphop?. I wanted a can that would have good detail for vocals and guitars along with some nice deep bass for drums/bass and my hiphop music. Does the HE-400 respond well to the Fiio E17's bass boost?


----------



## Jack C

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Sorry no. But thats one reason why i hesitate on recommending a cable as you never know. Sadly, monoprice adapters have this problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is the reason why Micca began offering some good optical cables in for use with the E17, because there were very few good and affordable cables that worked well. Being a portable product, the E17 does not work well with the bulky home AV cables as some of the connectors are often thicker than the E17. Those cables usually also have very long connector bodies and stiff cable jackets. Another factor to consider is that the E17 uses a Mini optical jack, not the larger Toslink jack, so the cable selection is even smaller. Using a toslink-to-mini adapter makes the connector even bulkier and is less than optimal.
   
  Jack


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





torana355 said:


> After much reading i just ordered the Hifiman HE-400. Do you think i made a good choice for listening to Rock/Metal and Hiphop?. I wanted a can that would have good detail for vocals and guitars along with some nice deep bass for drums/bass and my hiphop music. Does the HE-400 respond well to the Fiio E17's bass boost?


 
   
  Oh yeah you'll love it, no doubt. Be sure to grab an extra pair of velour Hifiman pads though (they are only $10), they improve the sound quite dramatically without changing its great bass at all.
   
  I found that the +2 and +4 bassboosts on E17 were really nice on the HE400, any more bassboost and it gets a little too much for me, not to say that's bad though for bassheads.


----------



## jwusoccer

Hey everyone, i just got my hd650s in, but i can't use 12 gain on usb with the e17. Does anyone know why?


----------



## ClieOS

jwusoccer said:


> Hey everyone, i just got my hd650s in, but i can't use 12 gain on usb with the e17. Does anyone know why?




It is because 12dB gain will cause the amp to clip (= noise) in USB mode, so it was disable from the inside.


----------



## torana355

Quote: 





clieos said:


> It is because 12dB gain will cause the amp to clip (= noise) in USB mode, so it was disable from the inside.


 

 My E17 works on 12dB gain in usb mode no problems.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





torana355 said:


> My E17 works on 12dB gain in usb mode no problems.


 
  There was a way to cheat it if I remember correctly in CLIEOS's review.


----------



## hummel

Mine also has 12dB gain out of the box, maybe reset the device ?


----------



## MattTCG

Mine also for +12


----------



## nariza7

Hey, how long does the fiio e17 keep its charge for you guys? I had my fiio e17 fully charged like 2 weeks ago, and I havent used it since. Today I took it out of its pouch where it has been in for 2 weeks and it has no charge at all. Is this normal?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





nariza7 said:


> Hey, how long does the fiio e17 keep its charge for you guys? I had my fiio e17 fully charged like 3 weeks ago, and I havent used it since. Today I took it out of its pouch where it has been in for 3 weeks and it has no charge at all. Is this normal?


 
  Back when I had it, this was normal. Although it could be many factors. Charge and use and etc etc. Report if there are any weird battery anomalies such as inability to charge, very short life and other stuff.


----------



## JuicyKong

Got Fiio E17 today, but i got a problem.
  I can only use 96k 24bit in usb mode which connect to my PC? I understand the 3.5mm cable is an analog, and analog audio doesn't involve bit rate or sample depth. The audio output of analog is same as the source, but what about using LOD cable with my ipod? LOD is considered to be digital output. While the E17 connect with my ipod, It only indicates 48k 16bit.  Does it mean the sound quality of LOD cable is worse than 3.5mm jack when i play a 96k 24bit song?


----------



## rottencat

Any Graham Slee Voyager owners here? Your comment about Voyager vs E17 would be highly appreciated.


----------



## bowei006

juicykong said:


> Got Fiio E17 today, but i got a problem.
> I can only use 96k 24bit in usb mode which connect to my PC? I understand the 3.5mm cable is an analog, and analog audio doesn't involve bit rate or sample depth. The audio output of analog is same as the source, but what about using LOD cable with my ipod? LOD is considered to be digital output. While the E17 connect with my ipod, It only indicates 48k 16bit.  Does it mean the sound quality of LOD cable is worse than 3.5mm jack when i play a 96k 24bit song?




You are over thinking.

USB on E17 only supports UP TO 24/96

iPod downsamples or its dac only supports 16/48


----------



## kenman345

Actually, Pretty sure some iPod's support 24/48. 
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You are over thinking.
> USB on E17 only supports UP TO 24/96
> iPod downsamples or its dac only supports 16/48


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kenman345 said:


> Actually, Pretty sure some iPod's support 24/48.


 
  Some? Never heard of that? Maybe the old Wolfson's on some select iPod's did?


----------



## iammoop

My e17 is connected to my PC (Windows 7) by usb and everytime the computer wakes from sleep mode it outputs 1-2 seconds of loud noise (like white noise) through the headphone out and line out. Does anyone else have this problem?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





iammoop said:


> My e17 is connected to my PC (Windows 7) by usb and everytime the computer wakes from sleep mode it outputs 1-2 seconds of loud noise (like white noise) through the headphone out and line out. Does anyone else have this problem?


 
  If it only does that when comming out of sleep mode then I wouldn't worry about it. I would only worry if it is a constant problem.
   
  Comming out of sleep mode, some components are restarting back up (powered down to save energy) and thus can lead to some white noise problems.


----------



## IKE60

juicykong said:


> Got Fiio E17 today, but i got a problem.
> I can only use 96k 24bit in usb mode which connect to my PC? I understand the 3.5mm cable is an analog, and analog audio doesn't involve bit rate or sample depth. The audio output of analog is same as the source, but what about using LOD cable with my ipod? LOD is considered to be digital output. While the E17 connect with my ipod, It only indicates 48k 16bit.  Does it mean the sound quality of LOD cable is worse than 3.5mm jack when i play a 96k 24bit song?



LOD is analog. The E17 always shows something up in that section of the display, even when operating as only an amp (AUX input).

Any quality difference between 3.5mm HP jack and LOD connector will be due to the difference in amping between the two ports on the ipod. The LOD is preferred, but is still not using the DAC of the E17, so the 48k 16bit displayed is meaningless.


----------



## hummel

today i connected my e17 through an optical cable, what a world of difference in sound, amazing (sennheiser hd598)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hummel said:


> today i connected my e17 through an optical cable, what a world of difference in sound, amazing (sennheiser hd598)


 
  Unless something was wrong with the USB cable or the settings you were using with your player and etc were faulty. It's more of a world of placebo. The sonic difference between a proper optical or porper USB connection at this price range is close to negligent.


----------



## hummel

The sound is richer and fuller than before


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hummel said:


> The sound is richer and fuller than before


 
  USB vs Optical? 
  
  At this range and cable and all those general factors, the sound difference is negligible to none.


----------



## FCO2013

A prompt answer would be nice, cause I'm kinda on a time budget.Can someone help me out? I've read a lot of threads so I've narrowed down my question, and a lot of the thread were kinda old-ish, so I'd a fresh opinion would be nice. Anywho...
   
  So I've come across a great deal for an E9+E7 (used, but in very very good condition) for about the same price as a new E17. I'm not really sure what to get. The extra power from the E9 would be nice, but I've also read that the DAC in the E17 is nicer than the one in the E7. I'd be using primarily with a portable device, but I'd also occasionally use it with my desktop (hence why I narrowed it down to DAC/AMP models from Fiio). Can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantages of choosing one over the other? I'm kinda leaning towards the E9+E7 combo, just because it's such a good deal.
   
  Thank you!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fco2013 said:


> A prompt answer would be nice, cause I'm kinda on a time budget.Can someone help me out? I've read a lot of threads so I've narrowed down my question, and a lot of the thread were kinda old-ish, so I'd a fresh opinion would be nice. Anywho...
> 
> So I've come across a great deal for an E9+E7 (used, but in very very good condition) for about the same price as a new E17. I'm not really sure what to get. The extra power from the E9 would be nice, but I've also read that the DAC in the E17 is nicer than the one in the E7. I'd be using primarily with a portable device, but I'd also occasionally use it with my desktop (hence why I narrowed it down to DAC/AMP models from Fiio). Can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantages of choosing one over the other? I'm kinda leaning towards the E9+E7 combo, just because it's such a good deal.
> 
> Thank you!


 
  1:Nope, they use the same exact DAC chip the WM8740 however the E17 has some upgrades to some chips, S/PDIF support with a Tenor chip and other small circuit updates. But all in all, same inside DAC. Probably small sonic improvements.
   
  Considering you want some extra power and am mainly worried about E17 having a better chip, you could just stick with the combo. The e7 uses the same DAC chip but not cirucuitry.


----------



## FCO2013

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 1:Nope, they use the same exact DAC chip the WM8740 however the E17 has some upgrades to some chips, S/PDIF support with a Tenor chip and other small circuit updates. But all in all, same inside DAC. Probably small sonic improvements.
> 
> Considering you want some extra power and am mainly worried about E17 having a better chip, you could just stick with the combo. The e7 uses the same DAC chip but not cirucuitry.


 
   


 Thanks for the fast response!
   
  huh, didn't know that, that changes things. The E17 alone is still better than the E7 though, yes?
   
  EDIT: Also, I saw that the E17 had a thing for R/L balance, which is really nice, since I only have one open ear.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fco2013 said:


> Thanks for the fast response!
> 
> huh, didn't know that, that changes things. The E17 alone is still better than the E7 though, yes?


 
  If you can use all it's features. The E17 supports S/PDIF coaxil and optical toslink with it's accompanying S/PDIF chip by Tenor that works nicely, from the looks of it, updated circuitry and things that are happening and the amp section is better than E7 as you can see from review..although if you are using at home, the DAC although may be technical the same may be a tiny bit..less good? But really. Don't worry about it. Only worry about it if you are more portable then desktop, if so then other units work better.


----------



## FCO2013

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> If you can use all it's features. The E17 supports S/PDIF coaxil and optical toslink with it's accompanying S/PDIF chip by Tenor that works nicely, from the looks of it, updated circuitry and things that are happening and the amp section is better than E7 as you can see from review..although if you are using at home, the DAC although may be technical the same may be a tiny bit..less good? But really. Don't worry about it. Only worry about it if you are more portable then desktop, if so then other units work better.


 

 Okay. I do use my portables more though, and most of my headphones are pretty low impedence (highest is 56 ohm). I don't use my desktop as much. Hmm, you said other units work better? Which ones specifically? ideally in the same price range as what I'm looking at now (120-140 USD).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fco2013 said:


> Okay. I do use my portables more though, and most of my headphones are pretty low impedence (highest is 56 ohm). I don't use my desktop as much. Hmm, you said other units work better? Which ones specifically? ideally in the same price range as what I'm looking at now (120-140 USD).


 
  E11
  JDS C421 USED
   
  E9 I believe has problems with very low impendence headphones I believe. I don't remember what the lowest it supports is though.


----------



## FCO2013

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> E11
> JDS C421 USED
> 
> E9 I believe has problems with very low impendence headphones I believe. I don't remember what the lowest it supports is though.


 

 Alright, I've heard issues about the E11 with hiss that gets bad over time? Sorry for all the questions, I'm new to this and this is my first "big" purchase.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fco2013 said:


> Alright, I've heard issues about the E11 with hiss that gets bad over time? Sorry for all the questions, I'm new to this and this is my first "big" purchase.


 
  Don't have the E11 sorry but hiss that gets bad? Never heard of that.


----------



## hummel

the e17 can also be docked in the e9 , so if you have money in the future you can buy that one too.. so u have it all


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hummel said:


> the e17 can also be docked in the e9 , so if you have money in the future you can buy that one too.. so u have it all


 
  An E9 update the E90K was just released. Not entirely a new product and with FiiO stating it more or less sounds the same sonically with bugg updates. Although some sources state that due to better technical bug fixes and etc, there are some sonic improvements but overal, an updated product. The E90K however is NOT compatible with the E7 so beware.


----------



## FCO2013

bowei006 said:


> An E9 update the E90K was just released. Not entirely a new product and with FiiO stating it more or less sounds the same sonically with bugg updates. Although some sources state that due to better technical bug fixes and etc, there are some sonic improvements but overal, an updated product. The E90K however is NOT compatible with the E7 so beware.




Okay thanks for the heads up. 


hummel said:


> the e17 can also be docked in the e9 , so if you have money In the future you can buy that one too.. so u have it all




Mmm. Maybe...maybe haha. 

After asking these questions and reading up, I'm gonna go with the E7 e9 combo. Just seems like I'd get more for my money. 

Thanks everyone!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fco2013 said:


> Okay thanks for the heads up.
> Mmm. Maybe...maybe haha.
> After asking these questions and reading up, I'm gonna go with the E7 e9 combo. Just seems like I'd get more for my money.
> Thanks everyone!


 
  The E7's amp by itself in a portable scheme of things isn't as good but it should suffice in the overal scheme of things.


----------



## MattTCG

For me, I'd grab the e17. It's new tech and I love the hardware EQ. Later down the road you could grab the e09k for a serious desktop combo!!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> For me, I'd grab the e17. It's new tech and I love the hardware EQ. Later down the road you could grab the e09k for a serious desktop combo!!


 
  It really depends on uses. That would be a good combo in terms of how all in one it use. Grab and go the E17 for portable and travel use as it is also a DAC, E90K as a serious desktop amp. But at $250, there are plenty of other full desktop combos I would buy as I am more at home. Depends on what you want really.


----------



## tme110

The e17 is better than the e7 in every way including better design, support to hi-res files, more options, more power, etc etc. Unless you needed that extra power of the e9 (which is quite a bit, ie more than many headphones will ever need) then I'd get the e17 and down the road you can still buy the e9 and connect to it the same way the e7 would have.


----------



## FCO2013

So after put some more careful consideration, I actually chose the E11. I rarely listen from my computer so a DAC/AMP or desktop amp won't do me much good. And if I need a DAC later on, I can just get an E10 or something since I'd already have a dedicated portable amp.


----------



## Necrontyr

Reconsider!!! I have an e17 and its my iPod companion, from all the reviews I have read since getting the e17 say that it is superior to the e11 as an amp anyway, 
   
  However I must say getting a dac to compliment an amp for PC use will be annoying later if you choose that path, I'm using my e17 (which is tied to my iPod) as a dac/amp for my desktop more and more, and when you watch movies with it , wowza ....


----------



## FCO2013

I don't really need the power right now. All of my headphones are pretty low impedence. Also, price. I originally wanted to spend less than 100, but got some funds, then decided go a little above 100, then decided to save the extra funds for the future. So I went back to the sub 100 price range.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





fco2013 said:


> I don't really need the power right now. All of my headphones are pretty low impedence. Also, price. I originally wanted to spend less than 100, but got some funds, then decided go a little above 100, then decided to save the extra funds for the future. So I went back to the sub 100 price range.


 
  E11 actually has a tad bit more power on most ranges as compared to E17..only a tad.


----------



## FCO2013

bowei006 said:


> E11 actually has a tad bit more power on most ranges as compared to E17..only a tad.



I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant extra power as in the DAC. Poor wording on my part.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, a few questions:
   
  1. When I turn on my e17, when docked into the e09k, it automatically set the gain to +6. I want it at +0 to avoid double amping. I can control the gain with the e09k and would prefer to. Is there a way to get the e17 to always use +0 gain when docked?
   
  2. I have found that the e17 when docked still have a functional hp jack on top. But if you are using it, the volume on the e09 is not functional nor is the gain switch on the back of the e09. So if I'm using the 1/8 jack on top of the e17 when docked, does that mean the e09 is not functional? 
   
  thanks...Matt


----------



## lubczyk

Can I use the Fiio E17s Optical input with the added power of the Fiio E09K while the Fiio E17 is docked into the Fiio E09K?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Can I use the Fiio E17s Optical input with the added power of the Fiio E09K while the Fiio E17 is docked into the Fiio E09K?


 
  Yes if you are talking about using optical on E17 for input and E90K for power.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes if you are talking about using optical on E17 for input and E90K for power.


 
  Thank you for the qucik response.


----------



## beer nuts

I have asked this on another forum but am not getting much feedback there so thought I'd try here as well:

 I have an imac circa 2008 with a powered speaker/sub setup hanging off the headphone out. It has served me well over the years and gives a surprisingly good sound (I think).

 I have recently added a Fiio E17 DAC via USB (and sennheiser HD598 headphones) for listeneing to my itunes catalogue with bitperfect and/or audirvana+. I am very impressed with this setup and am enjoying listening to music all over again.

 However, sometimes I would be listening to itunes via dac/usb etc and I might like to jump over to a browser and listen to say youtube or a song on grooveshark - this audio is still ported out the back of the imac to the speakers.

 Is it possible to port ALL audio to the USB for processing by the DAC?

 Thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beer nuts said:


> I have asked this on another forum but am not getting much feedback there so thought I'd try here as well:
> 
> I have an imac circa 2008 with a powered speaker/sub setup hanging off the headphone out. It has served me well over the years and gives a surprisingly good sound (I think).
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah...don't know why that is not happening.
   
  There are two ways to maybe do this and I do not have 100% instructions but first access your advanced sound controls.
   
  Hold down the "Option" key on the keyboard while clicking on the back sound icon in the top right corner of the screen(usually) look through audio out preferences and see if you can change it to USB E17
   
  Search and open up "Audio Midi setup", same thing, look up and see if you can select E17 USB as default.


----------



## beer nuts

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yeah...don't know why that is not happening.
> 
> There are two ways to maybe do this and I do not have 100% instructions but first access your advanced sound controls.
> 
> ...


 

 Brilliant! Thanks mate. Works beautifully - I didn't know about the old "option click" thing.
   
  I had to to disable BitPefect first though to release the bus (I guess). I was sure I had tried doing that previously but obviously not.
   
  So now - if listeneing to itunes->bitperfect->dac->headphones and want to jump out to firefox quickly to check a song I just pause itunes, disable bitperfect and jump to firefox etc
   
  Perfect!
  Thank you


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beer nuts said:


> Brilliant! Thanks mate. Works beautifully - I didn't know about the old "option click" thing.
> 
> I had to to disable BitPefect first though to release the bus (I guess). I was sure I had tried doing that previously but obviously not.
> 
> ...


 
  Yep, bitperfect formats like WASAPI or ASIO has those problems.
   
  What bitperfect programs are you using?
   
  You're welcome!


----------



## beer nuts

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yep, bitperfect formats like WASAPI or ASIO has those problems.
> 
> What bitperfect programs are you using?
> 
> You're welcome!


 
  It's actually an app (from the app store) called BitPerfect ver 1.0.3 by Tim Murison.
   
  It's only about 10bucks, no demo (that I could see) so I just bought it. Seems to work fine. I'm also trialling audirvana+ at the moment but can't really see (hear) any difference that would justify the extra expenditure?
   
  I find it hard to go between different programmes/setups quickly enough to judge A/B differences in sound quality.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beer nuts said:


> It's actually an app (from the app store) called BitPerfect ver 1.0.3 by Tim Murison.
> 
> It's only about 10bucks, no demo (that I could see) so I just bought it. Seems to work fine. I'm also trialling audirvana+ at the moment but can't really see (hear) any difference that would justify the extra expenditure?
> 
> I find it hard to go between different programmes/setups quickly enough to judge A/B differences in sound quality.


 
  WASAPI isn't really a quality boost as a guarantee of quality. Or any Bitperfect quality it is. What it does is give you audio stream it's own dedicated stream. And not just audio stream but the audio stream of your choosing which for me is anything out of foobar.
   
  Playing youtube video's or other lower quality streams without a bit perfect guarantee may lower quality of music comming out and then there is sayings of better resources with bitperfect streams.


----------



## beer nuts

Thanks bowei
  I'm not too worried about audio qulity from youtube and the likes - I just use them to get a taste of the music before buying CD or HD download.
   
  Another question while I've got you there -  like I said I'm listening now with headphones from the E17 (which is great) but I have a LOD arriving tomorrow to take the line out audio from E17 to powered speakers/sub.
   
  Does audio play to both headphone and lineout at the same time? Will I have to 'pull' the headphone jack everytime I want to listen to speakers?
   
  Cheers
  p.s. foobar? is that a pc only thing (not mac)?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beer nuts said:


> Thanks bowei
> I'm not too worried about audio qulity from youtube and the likes - I just use them to get a taste of the music before buying CD or HD download.
> 
> Another question while I've got you there -  like I said I'm listening now with headphones from the E17 (which is great) but I have a LOD arriving tomorrow to take the line out audio from E17 to powered speakers/sub.
> ...


 
  Foobar is only PC
   
  ....... I have never had the L7 so I do not know sorry. You'll need to find out tomorrow


----------



## gEaK

Wondering if anyone else is having this problem?
   
  When I select the "ASIO: FIIO E17 DAC ASIO DRIVER" in the foobar output, there is a lag/buffer time of about 1 second whenever a new track plays, or when skipping through a track.
   
  This does not happen if I select the standard "DS: SPDIF OUT (2-FIIO USB DAC-E17)" or "WASAPI: SPDIF OUT (2-FIIO USB DAC-E17)" outputs.
   
  I would just use the WASAPI output, however it's really annoying having to close foobar and restart firefox every time you want to stream something online.
   
  Any help would be much appreciated, cheers.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





geak said:


> Wondering if anyone else is having this problem?
> 
> When I select the "ASIO: FIIO E17 DAC ASIO DRIVER" in the foobar output, there is a lag/buffer time of about 1 second whenever a new track plays, or when skipping through a track.
> 
> ...


 
  Everything is ok!  It's not a problem, it's normal behaviour.


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Everything is ok!  It's not a problem, it's normal behaviour.


 

 I was afraid of that as it's very annoying when trying to skip through tracks to find certain parts fast.
   
  Also, I have many albums that blend seamlessly between tracks, and this driver introducing a skip at the beginning of each new track does not make for pleasant listening at all.


----------



## hrbballman

Sorry, this may have already been asked but as I do not want to look through 289 pages of info/posts I thought I would just ask.   Has anyone paired this with their Westone 4's or 4R's and what are you impressions of this amp/dac combo with the westones?  Thanks!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hrbballman said:


> Sorry, this may have already been asked but as I do not want to look through 289 pages of info/posts I thought I would just ask.   Has anyone paired this with their Westone 4's or 4R's and what are you impressions of this amp/dac combo with the westones?  Thanks!


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/1005#post_8108791
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/2670#post_8294711
   
  This is only some of them. There is a search function at the bottom of the page, type westone 4 or whatever into it. I did a quickie for you.
   
  But please note that as this is an appreciation thread of sorts, and the E17 is an amp with no sonic defecinceis...the feedback will of course be positive.So it's not much use, it only tells you that the E17 works well with the W4's with no hiss or distortion that one would hear or mind.


----------



## hrbballman

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/1005#post_8108791
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/2670#post_8294711
> 
> This is only some of them. There is a search function at the bottom of the page, type westone 4 or whatever into it. I did a quickie for you.
> ...


 
  Sorry, I'm not as familiar with this forum.  I didn't see the "search Thread" tab.  Will do next time.  Thanks though.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





hrbballman said:


> Sorry, I'm not as familiar with this forum.  I didn't see the "search Thread" tab.  Will do next time.  Thanks though.


 
  This forum has many features most of them work half or a quarter as well as you would expect though but it still "has" them.  Such as the upvote button next to the "Multi button" near the reply button.


----------



## tme110

you can also simply use google to search for items in this forum but 'search this thread' works too


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





geak said:


> I was afraid of that as it's very annoying when trying to skip through tracks to find certain parts fast.
> 
> Also, I have many albums that blend seamlessly between tracks, and this driver introducing a skip at the beginning of each new track does not make for pleasant listening at all.


 
  Are you sure you need ASIO or WASAPI? Have you tried a blind test if you can hear a difference with and without these protocols? 
 BTW which player do use?


----------



## gEaK

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Are you sure you need ASIO or WASAPI? Have you tried a blind test if you can hear a difference with and without these protocols?
> BTW which player do use?


 

 Yeah I'm going to try a blind test later tonight with 2 laptops as I'm skeptical myself of the whole ASIO/WASAPI feature.
   
  I think really I just want the "cleanest/purest" signal possible coming from my laptop to the E17.
   
  I'm currently using Foobar, I may post a little review/my feelings on the E17 if I get chance too for anyone interested.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





geak said:


> Yeah I'm going to try a blind test later tonight with 2 laptops as I'm skeptical myself of the whole ASIO/WASAPI feature.
> 
> I think really I just want the "cleanest/purest" signal possible coming from my laptop to the E17.
> 
> I'm currently using Foobar, I may post a little review/my feelings on the E17 if I get chance too for anyone interested.


 
  Sure, it will be interesting!


----------



## ghardashyan

Guys, today I expected a problem with my E17. I was listening Deep Purple's Child in Time at high volume from my laptop, when some distortion ( audible buzzing ) came with loud vocals ( not generic interference buzz ).Pause/ Stop/ Play didn't solve this issue. After reconnecting device the sound was OK.

 Foobar2000, USB, 96/ 24, no WASAPI/ no ASIO.

 Sadly, I'm not able to reproduce the problem: what could it be?
 I am nervous to such things.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Guys, today I expected a problem with my E17. I was listening Deep Purple's Child in Time at high volume from my laptop, when some distortion ( audible buzzing ) came with loud vocals ( not generic interference buzz ).Pause/ Stop/ Play didn't solve this issue. After reconnecting device the sound was OK.
> 
> Foobar2000, USB, 96/ 24, no WASAPI/ no ASIO.
> 
> ...


 
  It may be EMI from other network signal producing thigns or if your E17 or cables nearby were near electrical sources like the power plug of an lamp
   
  There is also a "click click click" sound that happens with the E17 sadly that can't be fixed but a loud buzzing? Low power maybe?


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It may be EMI from other network signal producing thigns or if your E17 or cables nearby were near electrical sources like the power plug of an lamp
> 
> There is also a "click click click" sound that happens with the E17 sadly that can't be fixed but a loud buzzing? Low power maybe?


 
  Well, by buzzing sound I was meaning that click-click sound... What's that, does it concern all units?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Well, by buzzing sound I was meaning that click-click sound... What's that, does it concern all units?


 
  From what it seems..yes. And it happens more often when you are at a higher gain than needed and or at high volumes.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> From what it seems..yes. And it happens more often when you are at a higher gain than needed and or at high volumes.


 
  One more time please. Just to be sure we are talking about same thing. It was sounding like rattle: just like if the sound was from poor headphones - rattling at high volumes... Are the symptoms same?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> One more time please. Just to be sure we are talking about same thing. It was sounding like rattle: just like if the sound was from poor headphones - rattling at high volumes... Are the symptoms same?


 
  ...may not be. Rattlings? The mids rattling
   
  Over voltage maybe? As in too much power


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> ...may not be. Rattlings? The mids rattling
> 
> Over voltage maybe? As in too much power


 
  Indeed vocals were rattling, after reconnect it became OK. And one more thing: before the incident I was playing with treble settings - I haven't done that since purchase date, but I quickly returned the slider to 0 position.

 Wish the issue has gone away...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Indeed vocals were rattling, after reconnect it became OK. And one more thing: before the incident I was playing with treble settings - I haven't done that since purchase date, but I quickly returned the slider to 0 position.
> 
> Wish the issue has gone away...


 
  Treble settings, please note that anything past 4+ (depending on headphones) will have this problem, if you have bright headphones or ones that are efficent say, then having a high treble add on(2+ could even be high) may lead to such problems. 
   
  For XB500, I muddied out on bass at 6+, on HFI 580, after 4+, it changes from headphone to headphone. 2+ is usually safe for most headphones though


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Treble settings, please note that anything past 4+ (depending on headphones) will have this problem, if you have bright headphones or ones that are efficent say, then having a high treble add on(2+ could even be high) may lead to such problems.
> 
> For XB500, I muddied out on bass at 6+, on HFI 580, after 4+, it changes from headphone to headphone. 2+ is usually safe for most headphones though


 
  As i mentioned, I returned to 0 when distortion began...
*And it happened again. *






 Actually my laptop is new and its second day I am using it paired with E17. Also I have mouse receiver at  near USB port. Maybe this causes distortion? 
 I guess, tomorrow I'll heavily test the unit at work.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> As i mentioned, I returned to 0 when distortion began...
> *And it happened again. *
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Try the mouse receiver somewhere else.


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Try the mouse receiver somewhere else.


 
  Already, I'll write here if something will go wrong.

 Thanks, Panda-sama.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ghardashyan said:


> Already, I'll write here if something will go wrong.
> 
> Thanks, Panda-sama.


 
  You're welcome


----------



## beaver316

Something i came across today. I always used to have a problem where my E17 could click and pop when playing Youtube videos, but never with anything else. Well the problem seems to have fixed itself, but i always thought it might be because of my USB ports on my laptops. I thought that they may be too weak or something.
   
  Well i found some info in the Device Manager relating to the power usage of the E17. 
   
   

   
  It states that the E17 requires 500mA and that my port only offers exactly that. Could this be why i had crackles and pop? Maybe on some occasions the E17 needed more power than my USB port could provide.
   
  Could anyone here check this information on their pc to compare. It's accessed in the Device Manager. Go to Universal Serial Bus Controllers, then USB Root Hub. You may have many of these. Right click and check properties.
   
  Im planning on getting a Schiit Gungnir in the future and using it with it's async USB implementation, however again im worrying about my laptop's usb ports being too weak. Even though the Schiit is powered though AC, maybe it will still draw power from the USB port. Do you think in this case it's better to go with an external powered USB hub?


----------



## bowei006

Last I remember , that panel is mis interpreted with 500mA being what the port at max can support. Tests have shown E17 to use about 150-200mA


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Last I remember , that panel is mis interpreted with 500mA being what the port at max can support. Tests have shown E17 to use about 150-200mA


 
   
  So then my USB port should have plenty enough power. What do you make on the external AC powered usb hub though?


----------



## bowei006

External powered? People only use those when they wanted to use CCK with iPad with E17 as a Dac and amp.


----------



## Necrontyr

This exact crackle and hiss occurs with my Fiio on my macbook pro , 2011 13' version , its not the fiio's fault , its the usb port, however I dont think it is 100% a power supply problem, your laptop can easily provide the 5v and amperage your fiio needs, more of an interference problem, my MBP has two usb ports, on one of them is crackles like hell, but connect the fiio to the other, then its clean and perfect.
   
  Just use a different port, from my experience as a Computer scientist and my knowledge of usb and electronics I would say it has to do with interference in the usb port is caused by having a shared ground with another noisy source, thus the ground isn't actually at 0 volts relative to the 5v supply, this difference can cause some upsets for the internals of the fiio , 
   
  TLR your fiio is fine, in fact its awesome , just use a different USB port
   
   
   


beaver316 said:


> . What do you make on the external AC powered usb hub though?


 
   
  This comment is also addressed by my point, an external powered usb hub if designed right , will have good grounding for each port, thus giving the fiio clean DC electricity, and thus mitigating the crackle that way


----------



## TooPoor

If I were to use my E17 as a temp DAC, what would you guys recommend for an interconnect from the E17 to a Schiit Valhalla? AUX/3.5mm to RCA? Also, any recommendations on decent interconnect cables? Any input would be great.


----------



## musicinmymind

When Dell XPS and E17 wired using *SPDIF* Interface, which DAC will be active? DAC on E17 or realtek DAC on Dell.....I am not able to find any SQ difference between USB or SPDIF....I use FLAC but only 24bit


----------



## Necrontyr

SPDIF , sony phillips digital interchange format is a digital to digital signal, transmitted over de ould light waves inside that shiny optical cable .
   
  That means the digtal to analog converter in the Fiio does the grunt work converting the signal as faithfully as it can. 
   
  You wont be able to find the SQ difference tbh, after doing some personal research and double blind testing and I personally think anything above 16bit 44.1khz doesnt change a thing.
   
  That said having optical and usb is deadly, I have my optical connected to my laptop and my USB connected to my desktop, and when i want to switch over from one machine to the other all i need to do is toggle a switch on the fiio, AWESOME functionality


----------



## musicinmymind

Thanks for replay...I will continue using USB


----------



## VickB

Guys 
   
  I need some advice.
   
  I purchased Fiio E17 yesterday. I charged it using my laptop USB for 6 hours. There was a bright red light on. When I tried to turn it on ( ensured that HOLD switch is off), it turned on for 2 seconds , the red light tuned blue and all I could see was a very quick message saying " Low Battery" and the "Bye Bye".  I reset the device by pressing the reset for about 30 secs and tried to turn it on probably 10 times but no success. Then I charged it using a wall charger for another six hours, and now the red light's colour faded. I plugged usb out and tried to start the device and got the same error of low battery. I have also tried different USB cable too and tried to reset the device many times. I plugged USB from wall charger in after half an hour and device had intense bright red light for about 15 minutes and then turned to faded red colour. The same happened when connected to Laptop.  I left it charging all night , but still no success. All it shows is a fade red light when connected to laptop or wall charger.
   
  The laptop recognizes the device. I have also tried turning Hold button on n off a few times too. Just to experiment at one stage, I turned on the device and very quickly pressed the input button and kept holding, and found that the device started changing inputs sources but also surprisingly the device kept turned on. After 20 secs or so I tuned on the hold button simultaneously and then tuned it of and found that the device was still on but froze. The E17 device was connected to PC and I connected my headphones to the E17 and it was receiving the output . I can hear the music but i wasnt able to play with any functions on E17. I tried to reset E17 again but when tried to restart it had the same low battery error. 
   
  I was so excited to buy this gadget but I am so disappointed with it.
   
  Please give me some advice apart from the option of returning it back to the local retailer which ultimately I would if the frustration continues.
   
  cheers
  Vick
   
   
   
   
   
   
 UPDATE:
  
 Took the unit to the retailer the next day. They also felt it was a faulty unit and replaced it with a new one. 
  
 The new one is working marvellously great. Thanks to  bowei006 for excellent piece of advice.
  
 Cheers


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





vickb said:


> Guys
> 
> I need some advice.
> 
> ...


 
  You have a defective device....that is really about it.
   
   
  Just had private chat with the user here, he will be exchanging it when the weak restars in his country as he bought with authorized dealer. 
   
  I can not think of anything else but defective unit.


----------



## ClieOS

Probably an issue with the battery. Sometime improper shipping and storage can damage internal components, happened to my first E17 review unit as I have posted on the first page. Just send it back and request for a replacement.


----------



## beaver316

necrontyr said:


> This exact crackle and hiss occurs with my Fiio on my macbook pro , 2011 13' version , its not the fiio's fault , its the usb port, however I dont think it is 100% a power supply problem, your laptop can easily provide the 5v and amperage your fiio needs, more of an interference problem, my MBP has two usb ports, on one of them is crackles like hell, but connect the fiio to the other, then its clean and perfect.
> 
> Just use a different port, from my experience as a Computer scientist and my knowledge of usb and electronics I would say it has to do with interference in the usb port is caused by having a shared ground with another noisy source, thus the ground isn't actually at 0 volts relative to the 5v supply, this difference can cause some upsets for the internals of the fiio ,
> 
> ...




Thanks for this post. Very useful information. I'm now seriously considering a USB hub now. My laptop only has 3 USB ports anyway so I'll have the advantage of extra ports too, plus hopefully a clean connection for each.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Thanks for this post. Very useful information. I'm now seriously considering a USB hub now. My laptop only has 3 USB ports anyway so I'll have the advantage of extra ports too, plus hopefully a clean connection for each.


 
*powered* USB hub, is what I think you mean and or want for such a device..probably.
   
  They are usually $15 USD. Not sure for your location.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> If I were to use my E17 as a temp DAC, what would you guys recommend for an interconnect from the E17 to a Schiit Valhalla? AUX/3.5mm to RCA? Also, any recommendations on decent interconnect cables? Any input would be great.


 
  I'm using a relatively basic cable I got from Amazon. (monoprice) Looks like 2 ft. long. I have not researched anything more "fancy" than that. I will supply a link for it if you want. All I can say is it seems to work, the quality _feels_ good, and it's a bit beefy (shielding, etc.).


----------



## BassBoy04

correct me if i'm wrong but i know that you cannot charge the E17 using a wall charger right?.. it has no voltage options like the new feature of Mount Blanc..


----------



## shockdoc

Is the E17 USB 3.0 compatable?


----------



## prsut

Quote: 





bassboy04 said:


> correct me if i'm wrong but i know that you cannot charge the E17 using a wall charger right?.. it has no voltage options like the new feature of Mount Blanc..


 
   
  You can use any wall charger with USB out. For example, I'm using charger for mobile phone or navigation. You can even use car CL adapter. If charger has USB out, then for sure you can use it....


----------



## ghardashyan

Quote: 





shockdoc said:


> Is the E17 USB 3.0 compatable?


 
  Yup!


----------



## bowei006

To further elaborate on these even though they have gotten replies:
   
  Quote:


shockdoc said:


> Is the E17 USB 3.0 compatable?


 
  Yes but IT DOES NOT HAVE USB 3.0. USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.X and thus is compatible with the E17. Your E17 does not have or use USB 3.0 output or as a standard, it is just compatible with it.
   
  Quote: 





bassboy04 said:


> correct me if i'm wrong but i know that you cannot charge the E17 using a wall charger right?.. it has no voltage options like the new feature of Mount Blanc..


 
  You can use any wall charger that fits the cable that the E17 uses to charge but be careful. The fast charging chargers can reduce battery life.
   
  A general rule of thumb that isn't always true but generally is for battery:
  Fast charge = generally "worse" battery life and use time (it is accumulative really, think of it as smoking)
   
  Slow charge = generally better battery life or keeping it healthy and a generally longer use time (think of it as healthy excercise)
   
  However again, depending on the circuits of that charger, if it has something wrong with it, it could lead or hurt battery life which is why FiiO has said before to hopefully use good authentic chargers. I use authentic Apple ones with mine.


----------



## BassBoy04

Quote: 





prsut said:


> You can use any wall charger with USB out. For example, I'm using charger for mobile phone or navigation. You can even use car CL adapter. If charger has USB out, then for sure you can use it....


 
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes but IT DOES NOT HAVE USB 3.0. USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.X and thus is compatible with the E17. Your E17 does not have or use USB 3.0 output or as a standard, it is just compatible with it.
> 
> You can use any wall charger that fits the cable that the E17 uses to charge but be careful. The fast charging chargers can reduce battery life.
> 
> ...


 
   
  thanks guys for clearing things up.. i thought that i cannot charge it through a wall charger since it has no voltage options 
   
  just to make sure, i'll just be using an iPad 3 USB charger


----------



## tme110

It's just USB.  As long as it's built to spec one USB charger is the same as another.  The voltage doesn't matter because...it's  usb so it's the same as other usb connections.  And if you do use some kind of higher voltage/faster charging charger, certainly don't keep it plugged in continuously.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> I'm using a relatively basic cable I got from Amazon. (monoprice) Looks like 2 ft. long. I have not researched anything more "fancy" than that. I will supply a link for it if you want. All I can say is it seems to work, the quality _feels_ good, and it's a bit beefy (shielding, etc.).


 
   
   

   I'm using one of these at the moment:
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002K7YPHU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00


----------



## Necrontyr

Sorry I forgot to mention that because I thought it was implied, yea it has to be a powered hub and a well designed powered hub too , if you just got a 4 port non-powered usb hub and connected it to the noisy USB port on the machine it would be equally as noisy and crackly, your just displacing the problem.
   
  Whereas a powered usb port handles the voltage pins seperate to the data pins, so really it draws very little or no power from the machine it is connected to, depending on the design. 
   
  Para-quoting below, its like para-phasing but with Quotes !!!!
   


beaver316 said:


> Do you think in this case it's better to go with an external powered USB hub?


 
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> *powered* USB hub, is what I think you mean and or want for such a device..probably.
> 
> They are usually $15 USD. Not sure for your location.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





necrontyr said:


> This exact crackle and hiss occurs with my Fiio on my macbook pro , 2011 13' version , its not the fiio's fault , its the usb port, however I dont think it is 100% a power supply problem, your laptop can easily provide the 5v and amperage your fiio needs, more of an interference problem, my MBP has two usb ports, on one of them is crackles like hell, but connect the fiio to the other, then its clean and perfect.
> 
> Just use a different port, from my experience as a Computer scientist and my knowledge of usb and electronics I would say it has to do with interference in the usb port is caused by having a shared ground with another noisy source, thus the ground isn't actually at 0 volts relative to the 5v supply, this difference can cause some upsets for the internals of the fiio ,
> 
> ...


 
   
  There is definitely interference with my usb ports. When listening to music through the E17, and using the scroll wheel on my usb mouse i get those clicks.
   
  Is there a specific powered USB hub you would recommend, or brand i can buy from. Looking through Amazon and ebay they're filled with what seem to be cheap options, many with bad reviews.


----------



## Necrontyr

I've forgotten , is your PC a laptop or desktop ? I'm debugging the same issue for a guy in this thread >< 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/625322/headphones-sound-bad
   
  There I have linked two PCI-e hubs which get their power directly from the power supply, (note the white molex plug at the back)


----------



## beaver316

It's a laptop, Sony Vaio.


----------



## Seneca

Hi
   
  I have connected my e17 to the digital output of an apple airport express (old style) and stream wirelessly from itunes on my iMac. I then run the output from an L7 to my amplifier. The problem is that I cannot use the usb output from the airport express to power e17 as this turns off the airport express because it draws too much power. When i try to plug the usb into my computer (making sure that the input selected is optical) i get a lot of distortion presumably from a signal from the computer via usb. So my question is how can you charge the E17 while you are using it? Maybe it isn't possible in the set up I have but why?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seneca said:


> Hi
> 
> I have connected my e17 to the digital output of an apple airport express (old style) and stream wirelessly from itunes on my iMac. I then run the output from an L7 to my amplifier. The problem is that I cannot use the usb output from the airport express to power e17 as this turns off the airport express because it draws too much power. When i try to plug the usb into my computer (making sure that the input selected is optical) i get a lot of distortion presumably from a signal from the computer via usb. So my question is how can you charge the E17 while you are using it? Maybe it isn't possible in the set up I have but why?


 
  Go buy or find a wall charger in your house. Most have Apple devices so an Apple USB Wall charger will do. If you have another wall charger for USB plugs then that is fine too.
  If you don't have one, buy one on Ebay for $4.
   
  Done.


----------



## Seneca

Thanks. I was reluctant to try an apple charger because I wasnt sure what the power requirements of e17 were


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





seneca said:


> Thanks. I was reluctant to try an apple charger because I wasnt sure what the power requirements of e17 were


 
  Most USB wall chargers will work for most USB devices. I have written much on this already and even one on the previous page.


----------



## Misios

Hi guys! I just signed up as a member at head-fi to say thank you for all your valueable input in this thread, it has helped me greatly in my search for starter gear. I have settled on a Fiio E17 and hopefully I will be receiving a Q701 in the following weeks (got a deal I cannot simply knock off). While I understand that the Fiio E17 is far from optimal for driving the Q701 to their true potencial, I am however wondering how much should I actually be able to expect from this combo? I've lurked enough to have seen that Panda sensei (bowie =D ) has tried the Q701 and E17 paired up, and said it worked alright, but how much more could you push out the Q701 with a dedicated AMP/DAC combo without going completely overkill on my tiny wallet. Note that the Fiio E17 is merely a placeholder for now.
   
  I should also note that I am a poor student from Norway so getting a hold of exclusive branding products is hard/very expensive in Norway. For instance Fiio E17's goes for 275$ USD in norway (it's insane - goverment wants so much money) and you don't even want to know how much it cost to buy a pair of Q701 in a normal store.
   
  - Misios


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





misios said:


> Hi guys! I just signed up as a member at head-fi to say thank you for all your valueable input in this thread, it has helped me greatly in my search for starter gear. I have settled on a Fiio E17 and hopefully I will be receiving a Q701 in the following weeks (got a deal I cannot simply knock off). While I understand that the Fiio E17 is far from optimal for driving the Q701 to their true potencial, I am however wondering how much should I actually be able to expect from this combo? I've lurked enough to have seen that Panda sensei (bowie =D ) has tried the Q701 and E17 paired up, and said it worked alright, but how much more could you push out the Q701 with a dedicated AMP/DAC combo without going completely overkill on my tiny wallet. Note that the Fiio E17 is merely a placeholder for now.
> 
> I should also note that I am a poor student from Norway so getting a hold of exclusive branding products is hard/very expensive in Norway. For instance Fiio E17's goes for 275$ USD in norway (it's insane - goverment wants so much money) and you don't even want to know how much it cost to buy a pair of Q701 in a normal store.
> 
> - Misios


 
  It was an ok setup but as expected the E17 was a bit warm and colored for the Q701's. It was nice and everything was a nice fit as the E17 is universal but of course. That was the reason why I sold the E17. I won't be driving Q701's out portably as they are at home stations. If you just want a desktop setup there are much better desktop amp and DAC's out there. If you want an all in one device for other headphones and what not then the E17 or others are fine.
   
  I personally now have an Audio gd NFB 12.1 and a Custom O2.
   
  If you listen to classical or older musics the E17 may not do too well as those songs usually have a low noise floor or are just "quieter" than the new ones that go right up to the 96dB(16 bit) noise floor today and with those I found the E17 giving not enough or just enough power for the Q701's. For regular music it was fine in terms of power.
   
  I don't have the E17 anymore so can't do a comparison with you sorry.
   
   
  "Welcome to head fi! Sorry about your wallet"


----------



## Misios

Thanks for the fast answer Bowei! (I now realised I mistyped your name, sorry!)
   
  I couldn't find the Audio gd NFB 12.1 (only the 12.2) in norway - and it was some shabby new site that I've never heard of.
   
  I wont derail this thread anymore seing as it is an E17 thread - i'll bugger the people in the Q701 appriciation thread of some other dac/amps combos that might be worth looking into!


----------



## ClieOS

You are mixing up terms. If you are referring to noise floor and bit depth, then you are talking more in the area of dynamic range. Power is voltage and current, and Q701 isn't that demanding a headphone that E17 don't have enough on both. The tricky part about Q701 is often not about having not enough power to drive it well, but often not having the right synergy / performance to drive it to its best.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





misios said:


> Thanks for the fast answer Bowei! (I now realised I mistyped your name, sorry!)
> 
> I couldn't find the Audio gd NFB 12.1 (only the 12.2) in norway - and it was some shabby new site that I've never heard of.
> 
> I wont derail this thread anymore seing as it is an E17 thread - i'll bugger the people in the Q701 appriciation thread of some other dac/amps combos that might be worth looking into!


 
  Happens often. David Bowie is what many base it off of.
   
  The Audio gd's are mainly sold by their main site, they ship international.
   
  Good luck. Keep in mind that appreciation threads are a bit more biased and what not, including this one, but hope your journey on head fi goes well!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You are mixing up terms. If you are referring to noise floor and bit depth, then you are talking more in the area of dynamic range. Power is voltage and current, and Q701 isn't that demanding a headphone that E17 don't have enough on both. The tricky part about Q701 is often not about having not enough power to drive it well, but often not having the right synergy / performance to drive it to its best.


 
  I knew I was mixing them up but I had to go so I just what was at the top of my head. Sorry.
   
  I found that the E17 didn't have enough power for classical and oldie's songs that are "quiet" is what I mean. Along with the lack of power for older songs, the synergy was fine but I just didn't like the warmth and coloration of the E17 as opposed to say the Custom O2 desktop variant I replaced it with.


----------



## Misios

Quote: 





clieos said:


> You are mixing up terms. If you are referring to noise floor and bit depth, then you are talking more in the area of dynamic range. Power is voltage and current, and Q701 isn't that demanding a headphone that E17 don't have enough on both. The tricky part about Q701 is often not about having not enough power to drive it well, but often not having the right synergy / performance to drive it to its best.


 

 Aye, I am - Although you seem to understand what I was aiming for - I'll lurk around a bit more to find the proper equipment 
   
  Bowei - Norway is not part of EU, thus making it very hard to receive shipping from international sites (we can't buy electronic equipment from amazon for instance!) I'll check if audio gd' actually does ship to Norway


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





misios said:


> Aye, I am - Although you seem to understand what I was aiming for - I'll lurk around a bit more to find the proper equipment
> 
> Bowei - Norway is not part of EU, thus making it very hard to receive shipping from international sites (we can't buy electronic equipment from amazon for instance!) I'll check if audio gd' actually does ship to Norway


 
  They may not say it on their site so email them for questions. They can help you. You place Audio gd orders by mail for them to give you a quote really. Audio gd is very popular in audio as you may tell.


----------



## ClieOS

Sorry, my previous comment is meant for bowei006 - which I think he is talking about the resolving power of the amp, not the actual power. That is understandable, given Q701 is an very analytical headphone and capable of showing fine detail while O2 isn't a pushover in comparison either.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Sorry, my previous comment is meant for bowei006 - which I think he is talking about the resolving power of the amp, not the actual power. That is understandable, given Q701 is an very analytical headphone and capable of showing fine detail while O2 isn't a pushover in comparison either.


 
  Could you explain what you mean by resolving power? I am a bit confused about resolving power and how it deals with the previous post?  Head-Fi is the place to learn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (ღ˘⌣˘ღ)​   
  The Q701 is a fine headphone for my Asian pop and rock tastes but a major flaw would be the bass responce. Yes it's just punchy enough and has just enough to not feel empty but as a EDM and normal listener, it is quite unsatisfactory at times and the problems with it are seen in movies that require heavy bass of which the Q701 then has the drivers shaking instead of much actual bass/LF responce causing a "stuttering" shaking fake bass to roll out.


----------



## ClieOS

Resolving power = resolution. How well the amp can resolve one music note / sound to another in the same time+space. For example, most human with average hearing can pick up one instrument from another in a live performance easily. But record that performance down and replay it on headphone and you will start losing the clarity and space between instruments as they become less defined. That because regardless how good the recording and playback devices are, they are still mechanical / electronics devices with limited resolving power. The idea is, when you have enough dynamic range in between recording and playback, any lost of resolution should be negligible. But often that's not the case in real life.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Resolving power = resolution. How well the amp can resolve one music note / sound to another in the same time+space. For example, most human with average hearing can pick up one instrument from another in a live performance easily. But record that performance down and replay it on headphone and you will start losing the clarity and space between instruments as they become less defined. That because regardless how good the recording and playback devices are, they are still mechanical / electronics devices with limited resolving power. The idea is, when you have enough dynamic range in between recording and playback, any lost of resolution should be negligible. But often that's not the case in real life.


 
  I see thanks. That still makes me wonder what was directed at me as I wasn't really talking about the resolution of the tracks but how they have a lower noise floor than most general music today.


----------



## dragoss

Hello to all!
   
  I have a problem with my FiiO E17. It keeps discharging at a fast pace even if it's powered off. By this i mean it discharges when powered off as if it were powered on and used.
  I used it one day on my laptop with charging on option, closed it (so full battery charge) and after a couple of days when i wanted to use it again it kept closing saying the battery was low on power.
   
  Does anyone ever experienced such an issue with their FiiO E17? Any ideas?
   
  Thanks in advance,
  Dragos


----------



## Rayzilla

Quote: 





dragoss said:


> Hello to all!
> 
> I have a problem with my FiiO E17. It keeps discharging at a fast pace even if it's powered off. By this i mean it discharges when powered off as if it were powered on and used.
> I used it one day on my laptop with charging on option, closed it (so full battery charge) and after a couple of days when i wanted to use it again it kept closing saying the battery was low on power.
> ...


 

 I noticed that when I take this with me in my bag, sometimes the "On" button gets pushed unintentionally because it protrudes a little so it gets turned "On" when pressure is applied on my bag where the ALPEN is located.  This is probably not your situation if the ALPEN is sitting around at home but if in a bag, this could be happening to your ALPEN.


----------



## dragoss

I thought of that too, that's why i put the hold button to "on" after i turned it off. So no accidental pushes could happen.


----------



## dragoss

Anybody else having any idea of the rapid discharge when the device is turned off?


----------



## autoexec

Your experience contradicts to mine. That's one of the things I love about the E17. Even if I leave it for 2 weeks full batt, the battery is almost as good. No discharging whatsoever. A full-charged E17, when I'm not on vacation and not using it much, can last 3-4 weeks for me. Also if you're using it as DAC, even the USB charging is turned off, the battery seems to almost not discharge at all. It discharges mainly when using as an amp IMHO. Either you have a lemon or you left it turned on. I always put in on hold when I turn it off.


----------



## autoexec

you can try doing a full-cycle discharge 3 times. First discharge let the battery drain until the device powered itself off. Then charge it completely while it is turned off (the LED must be Red not Violet in this case). That may take up to 4-4.5 hours. Then the next discharges let the battery reach 1-0 bar then charge it until it's full. Might help... Some sites/articles says we're now using lithium batteries and doesn't require care and is actually useless to mind how you charge them due to its technology. But for me it is still a must for stability of the batteries as I experience weird things happen to the battery life if I do charge them randomly. I'm very sensitive to the behavior of my devices' batteries lol.


----------



## dragoss

As i stated three or four posts above, i closed it and put it on hold afterwards in order to prevent accidental turns on. I never let it on when i don't use it. I'll try what you recommended and hope it will recover. Thank you.


----------



## bowei006

If the battery keeps draining without any warning then see for an exchange or refund with who you bought it from. If that is not possible Fiio has a one year limited(dont drop it) warranty


----------



## Scyy

Well this sucks, I get home looking forward to using my new e17 that just arrived this afternoon.  Plug it into my computer, it makes a usb device connected ding, makes sound as it should but the screen doesn't turn on!  Oh well, I guess waiting a few days for a replacement won't be the worst.
   
  Scratch that, long day at work.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





scyy said:


> Well this sucks, I get home looking forward to using my new e17 that just arrived this afternoon.  Plug it into my computer, it makes a usb device connected ding, makes sound as it should but the screen doesn't turn on!  Oh well, I guess waiting a few days for a replacement won't be the worst.


 
  Is the hold switch engaged?? The hold switch if it is engaged will have the orange strip revealed. 
   
  Make sure to press the power button FIRMLY. Don't smash it but don't lightly tap it either, the E17's power button needs a firm and straight on push (until you learn or get used to it)
   
   
  For anyone reading this recent posts and getting worried as it seems the last few pages all have problems, think of it this way, we had more posts and what not because those that subscribed to this thread got the items and remarked on it. Most have left since. Most people that get a working product WILL NOT come back to say whatever, while those that do have a faulty one will almost always make it known. With this threads age and nobody that has subscribed to it getting it and comming back, there aren't many impressions as there were before of course. So don't fret. Just purchase from a local in country retailer if possible. Authorized too


----------



## Scyy

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Is the hold switch engaged?? The hold switch if it is engaged will have the orange strip revealed.
> 
> Make sure to press the power button FIRMLY. Don't smash it but don't lightly tap it either, the E17's power button needs a firm and straight on push (until you learn or get used to it)
> 
> ...


 
  Omg, I feel like an idiot...  In my mind I thought the hold button being down was off and up was on.  All working now, Thank you so much for the prompt reply as well.  I didn't intend for my post to come off as bashing fiio either, I completely understand that there will always be lemons and as products become more popular you are bound to hear more simply based off the volume of sales.  I've have an e11 and had a e10 which I sold to a friend that I absolutely loved for the prices.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





scyy said:


> omg, I feel like an idiot...  In my mind I thought the hold button being down was off and up was on.  All working now, Thank you so much for the prompt reply as well.


 
  Glad that you got that working. Don't feel bad, if you have been on this thread as long as I have, you would note that you are around the 6th to have had this problem where they assumed what the Hold Switch indicator was and never bothered with it.
   
  FiiO on the E17 BY DEFAULT has the Hold Switch engaged(meaning in the On position to lock the device). The best and logical guess would be so that the device doesn't turn on during transport if the power button hit the top of the case or got pressed due to some strategic pressing of the power button from a box or something.


----------



## Scyy

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Glad that you got that working. Don't feel bad, if you have been on this thread as long as I have, you would note that you are around the 6th to have had this problem where they assumed what the Hold Switch indicator was and never bothered with it.
> 
> FiiO on the E17 BY DEFAULT has the Hold Switch engaged(meaning in the On position to lock the device). *The best and logical guess would be so that the device doesn't turn on during transport if the power button hit the top of the case or got pressed due to some strategic pressing of the power button from a box or something.*


 
  That definitely makes sense thinking about it now.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





scyy said:


> That definitely makes sense thinking about it now.


 
   
  Very sorry, we may do something to note user take care about the  "  hold " feature. maybe
   
  1, add a label. so user can see the notice about the Hold feature.
   
  2, set the hold switcher to " off "
   
  3, The screen will display " HOLD" when user touch the key and the Hold switcher is ON.


----------



## bowei006

Most are so excited when they get it that they may forget to look?

Maybe a sticker that says something of disabling hold switch


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Most are so excited when they get it that they may forget to look?
> Maybe a sticker that says something of disabling hold switch


 
   
   
  yes, a sticker or a label. anyway, we should do better and make everything simple and user friend.


----------



## Scyy

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Very sorry, we may do something to note user take care about the  "  hold " feature. maybe
> 
> 1, add a label. so user can see the notice about the Hold feature.
> 
> ...


 

 That sounds like it would be a great idea, other than the initial scare I am loving the e17.  I know it's the same DAC as the e10 that I had but the improved amp and added capabilities really make it worth the price difference imo.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





scyy said:


> That sounds like it would be a great idea, other than the initial scare I am loving the e17.  I know it's the same DAC as the e10 that I had but the improved amp and added capabilities really make it worth it imo.


 
  Same DAC does not always mean same sound. How it is implemented, the circuit, inputs(such as Tenor chip in the E17), and all those factors that can be and are generally changed between devices can change how the device sounds even if it is used as a DAC. Usually it's not night and day as we are implying that the companies that made the two units with the same DAC's implemented them well already.


----------



## Katsukare

Are there any firmware updates available for this device? 
  Last but not least is all audio source you listen to at 48K? even if it is playing 44k from your PC?


----------



## bowei006

@kinky
Yes there is an update for asio but it is not needed if you dont need it.

Fiio just displays 48 for both 44.1 and 48, same with displaying 96 even if it is 88.2


----------



## Coop

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> 3, The screen will display " HOLD" when user touch the key and the Hold switcher is ON.


 
   
  I think it's better to do it like this:
  - If the device is connected to an external powersource, it doesn't really matter how hold status is communicated.
  - If the device is powered on, not connected to an external powersource, and hold is engaged either show an indicator on screen continuously or temporarily when a key is pressed.
  - If the device is powered off, not connected to an external powersource, and hold is engaged, do absolutely nothing. Firing up the screen and monitoring button-status still uses a little power. Which would still mean unwanted battery drain when something keeps pressing the buttons in your pocket or bag.
   
  I mean, if someone cant figure out that they might need to flick the hold switch if their device doesn't respond to a buttonpress, they probably shouldn't be using technology at all


----------



## bowei006

@coop
While your instructions do make sense in terms of saving power, it would make many people mad that "Fiio" wouldnt even have an alert to tell them it was on hold and thus the cycle restarts. Nobody has complained of the system here yet


----------



## Necrontyr

I personally find the orange colour of the hold button the most obvious indicator of all, orange == on hold, what more do you want, look at the device, is the colour at the hold switch orange or gun metal black? if its orange flick the damn switch, anyone who has owned a cd player from the 90's implicitly understands this logic, at most Fiio should provide a two line description in its instruction leaflet.


----------



## Coop

Sure, but most people I know are more pissed off by finding their batteries drained even though their device is on hold than by not being notified that they need to check the position of a switch.
   
  But that is why I added different scenarios. If the device is connected to external power, communicate the hold status in whatever way you see fit, as it won't drain the battery. If the device is in use, communicate the hold status in whatever way you see fit, as the added batterydrain by the additional message is too small to notice. But When the device is off, don't do anything, as this will trigger a natural user response (to me as a geek, but I checked with 3 of my less tech-savvy colleagues and they say the same). Press a button -> nothing happens, check the hold switch and try again. If still nothing happens, charge the device. And if they skip straight to charging without checking the hold button, they will automatically go to the scenario where the device is connected to external power and thus receive the hold button notification. If hold button is off and the device is charged, and it still doesn't work, they have a right to complain 
   
  So much for my lunchbreak...


----------



## CantScareMe

I just wanted to say that still no fiio product that I've bought has ever displayed any fault. I've used this fiio 17 for 3 months now with my xbox/tv optical outputs and it's worked perfectly. Always.
  I don't want to jinx it or something, but was just saying, you know, congrats to fiio, as it must be so easy to churn out craptastic products like other audio manufacturers. Fiio don't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

*To those with an E17...*

It seems either my PC or the E17 is being... dumb.

If I do tone test in: 

32k, it will play at 16 bit/32k (shown on the E17 screen).
44.1k, it will play at 16 bit/*48K* (shown on screen)
48K, will play at 16 bit/48k (shown on screen)
88.2k, will play at 24bit/96k (shown on screen)
96K, will play at 24 bit/96k (shown on screen)

So is the E17 not able to play 44.1k and 88.2k at all?

Also, I have options to set the sound output to 24bit/44.1k and 24bit/48k, but the E17 still plays both at 16 bit/48K. The only time I ever get 24bit on screen is if I set the output to 88.2k or 96K.

A bug or a non-issue?

Not sure if this is normal, but doing a test tone for 192K will show up as 192k/24bit on the E17, but it's staticky and distorted, meaning unusable


----------



## fuzzy1969

I dont know where i buried the instructions but im pretty sure the fiio E17 offers more sample rates over optical and 192k is only supported by optical are you using usb or optical?


----------



## ClieOS

mad lust envy said:


> *To those with an E17...*
> ...




Manual, 2nd page.


----------



## bowei006

@madlustenvy
This question was asked a few pages ago.

44.1 and 88.2 are both shown as their higher based cousins. I forgot what multiple 96 and 48 worked offf but the e17 only displays select ones.


----------



## MattTCG

When using e17 with ipod and an l9 cable, the dac being used is from the ipod correct??


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> When using e17 with ipod and an l9 cable, the dac being used is from the ipod correct??


 
   
  Yes, E17 can't bypass the build in DAC in iPod.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, E17 can't bypass the build in DAC in iPod.


 
   
  Wow..answered by the man himself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thank you...
   
  How about telling us something about the next Fiio amp while you are here....


----------



## bowei006

The next one is the E12, E7OK, E18 and E02i are also have been announced as next amps. None out yet. There is a thread on E12, and no details on E70K or E18 yet.

E18 is android dac and amp with android phones with otg usb support
E70K is update to E7 amp and dac, no details yet
E12 is flagship amp only, big brother(not update) to E11. I say not update as the prices for the two as of current info is 3X more on E12. E12 will have about 500mW to 800mW of power and can be charged while using


----------



## musicinmymind

Hi bowei,
   
  Some time back (four months approx) you....in this thread....posted E17 setup for 44.1k play, can you please give me the post id...I am not able to trace it.
   
  It was kind of handbook for me and did not note down the post ID as it was part of your signature (which is not the case now)
   
  Please point me to that post


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> When using e17 with ipod and an l9 cable, the dac being used is from the ipod correct??


 
   
  Follow this thread, I was able to bypass iphone dac...
   
_http://www.head-fi.org/t/622311/iphone-4s-hooked-to-external-dac-yep-its-working_


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Follow this thread, I was able to bypass iphone dac...
> 
> _http://www.head-fi.org/t/622311/iphone-4s-hooked-to-external-dac-yep-its-working_


 
   
   
  Very cool...looking into it now.
   
  TY


----------



## bowei006

@music
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3105#post_8341120



There are some inaccuracies in the post dealing with nyquists theory though .


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> @music
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3105#post_8341120
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks a lot


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Thanks a lot


 
  Don't forget to upvote. Why? No reason. It makes my little Panda heart feel important is all.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey Bowei...I did upvote on 4/27/12 itself , right after I read your post...undoubtedly it is best post in this thread


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Hey Bowei...I did upvote on 4/27/12 itself , right after I read your post...undoubtedly it is best post in this thread


 
  Yeah, I saw that after I went and checked as I thought that you may have done that. Thanks for your upvote, I am now a few steps away from conquering all of Head-Fi Dom with my wrath. The best post is still the first E17 review post of course


----------



## MattTCG

Question...why when you dock the e17 to the e09k is the gain automatically set to +6? Should it be set to +0 to avoid double amping?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Question...why when you dock the e17 to the e09k is the gain automatically set to +6? Should it be set to +0 to avoid double amping?


 
  Gain is not the same as amplification. A 0dB gain is still using the amplification of a unit if the amp of that unit is in use.
   
  The E17 had the option to dual amp with E90K or just use the E90K's amp last I remember. In the later case, the E90K should be doing all the lifting, in the first case, no matter what it is , you will be dual amping.
   
  And then there is also that gain is not related to amplification exactly or perfectly.FiiO generally has pre amps to control volume(and they also provide tonality as well) so those factor into gain as well.


----------



## ClieOS

matttcg said:


> Question...why when you dock the e17 to the e09k is the gain automatically set to +6? Should it be set to +0 to avoid double amping?




Line-out in the dock has no gain (unless you have flip the LO-bypass switch). The gain is set only for the 3.5mm headphone-out on the E17 itself, when it detects an USB connection.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Line-out in the dock has no gain (unless you have flip the LO-bypass switch). The gain is set only for the 3.5mm headphone-out on the E17 itself, when it detects an USB connection.


 
   
  Ah ha!!! That makes sense. I do flip on the lo bypass switch so that I can have hardware EQ when docked. 
   
  Your answer makes perfect sense!!
   
  thanks....


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Ah ha!!! That makes sense. I do flip on the lo bypass switch so that I can have hardware EQ when docked.
> 
> Your answer makes perfect sense!!
> 
> thanks....


 
  I need to learn to make those perfect short but concise answers too


----------



## Brault

I'm considering a E09k to use with my E17 - can someone tell me if the balance setting on the E17 affects the l/r balance on the E09k headphone output? My hearing is imbalanced so I set balance to +4. 
Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

brault said:


> I'm considering a E09k to use with my E17 - can someone tell me if the balance setting on the E17 affects the l/r balance on the E09k headphone output? My hearing is imbalanced so I set balance to +4.
> Thanks!




Just set the LO Bypass switch to bypass mode, then you'll get all the EQ from E17 to E09K


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Just set the LO Bypass switch to bypass mode, then you'll get all the EQ from E17 to E09K


 
   
  Confirmed!!


----------



## msflsim

Hey guys, quick question.
   
  When you change the balance on the E17, are you able to pan hard left/right?
   
  On my unit its more of a slight shift. I am unable to use the controls to pan hard left/right.
   
  Is this how its supposed to be?
   
  Thanks


----------



## bowei006

If the function works then yes. The balance adjuster is not meant to fix assymetrical ear canals or other already present problems to an extreme extent.


----------



## msflsim

Hi Panda-sama 
   
  Thats not what i meant.
   
  When you use the balance control on the E17 can you shift the sound to left or right completely?
   
  Or is it just a slight shift towards left or right? (whereas you can still hear a bit of left/right signal in the other side)


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





msflsim said:


> Hi Panda-sama
> 
> Thats not what i meant.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's a slight shift, it doesn't shift completely.


----------



## CollectoR13

Hi!
  Can anybody tell if i can take a toslink input into E17 and get a lineout through the L7?
  Or is it USB only?
  Thank you for any helpful answers!


----------



## Necrontyr

Line out via L7 should work irrespective of the mode of input , so it should work for line in, coax, spdif or USB , it shouldnt matter.


----------



## dmcs414

I happened to be on my way here to ask a question about using the L7 Line out also.  I believe you would still get all the EQ/Balance functionality when using the L7, correct?  You're just bypassing the amplification.  
   
  Secondly, if you have a beefier amp available, is Line out preferable to using headphone out and dual-amping, and if so why?  I just recently acquired some new headphones and a new amp (HiFiMAN EF5 and HE-500) and am deciding how best to use them with my E17.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

From what I remember, the EQ settings are directly tied to the amping, so in in order to keep the EQ, you'll probably need to hit the bypass switch, in effect, still using the E17's internal amp. I don't see why you wouldn't just plug in a cable from the headphone jack to another amp, as you'll essentially be doing the same thing. The L7 should be used if you want to bypass the amp comepletely (by leaving it on bypass).

This is why when you dock the E17 to the E9/E09K and use the EQ function, you can still control the volume with the E17. You're using the E17 as a dac and pre-amp this way.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> From what I remember, the EQ settings are directly tied to the amping, so in in order to keep the EQ, you'll probably need to hit the bypass switch, in effect, still using the E17's internal amp. I don't see why you wouldn't just plug in a cable from the headphone jack to another amp, as you'll essentially be doing the same thing. The L7 should be used if you want to bypass the amp comepletely (by leaving it on bypass).


 
  The pre amp on the E17 when still enabled can still or does control EQ and volume., not sure how the L7 works with the bypass switch.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it's supposed to, as you can't get the E17's EQ wihtout the internal amp. You're using the E17 as a pre-amp regardless if you use the L7 or the headphone out. The question is, which has the better SQ (while in pre-amp mode) for another amp, the HPO, or the L7?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, it's supposed to, as you can't get the E17's EQ wihtout the internal amp. You're using the E17 as a pre-amp regardless if you use the L7 or the headphone out. The question is, which has the better SQ (while in pre-amp mode) for another amp, the HPO, or the L7?


 
  Of course, FiiO designs their amps, most of them arround a pre amp to driving/main amp setup.
   
  Yep, pre amp with volume and EQ control to another amp or just straight all amps bypassed out. Good question.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I remember when the E7/E9 first came out, I and a few others told others that if they wanted to keep the EQ for their E9, they'd have to undock the E7, and hook up a 3.5mm cable from the E7's hpo to the E9's line in.

Lots of people are scared to pre-amp. Honestly, if you want those EQs, it's the only way until Fiio makes a desktop amp with those EQ options.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I remember when the E7/E9 first came out, I and a few others told others that if they wanted to keep the EQ for their E9, they'd have to undock the E7, and hook up a 3.5mm cable from the E7's hpo to the E9's line in.
> Lots of people are scared to pre-amp. Honestly, if you want those EQs, it's the only way until Fiio makes a desktop amp with those EQ options.


 
  You are giving them ideas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  James said he was worried about their being an EQ feature on the E17 as many "audiophiles" or enthusiasts see it as unpure sound but as we can see, it was a huge success to add it on. Not sure how let's say a DAC and amp or whatever in the way higher now $200-$300 price range would work if that had an EQ option as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's an ingenious idea that no other companies are really capitilalizing on. Why settle for being like every other company trying to cater to the same crowd? Fiio is stepping out of the box and giving us, less anal consumers, options to tweak the sound to our preference. I applaud them for it. Hey, if people want straight audiophile sound without tweaks, it's not like the EQ has to be used.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's an ingenious idea that no other companies are really capitilalizing on. Why settle for being like every other company trying to cater to the same crowd? Fiio is stepping out of the box and giving us, less anal consumers, options to tweak the sound to our preference. I applaud them for it. Hey, if people want straight audiophile sound without tweaks, it's not like the EQ has to be used.


 
  FiiO themselves have explained and in my opinion in a way smartly so that they are not a full audiophile enthusiast company. With many sales going to the slightly more knowledgable consumers internationally. The numbers were like 200K units sold last year if I remember correctly, a record considering their company more or less launched in 2008 with the E3 and really even began as a real company in 2010 with their starter products. 
   
  Anyway, the EQ was quite nice, if it was more inclusive it would be better but as it is an option, it was nice to play with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ideally, I think Fiio's next major desktop amp should have the EQ functions, stronger than the E9/E09K, as well as having 2 ohms or less output impedance, to ensure proper damping for the vast majority of headphones. 10ohms on the E9/E09K is a bit high, when most of their consumers I'm sure are pairing those amps it with headphone's in the low ohm range.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ideally, I think Fiio's next major desktop amp should have the EQ functions, stronger than the E9/E09K, as well as having 2 ohms or less output impedance, to ensure proper damping for the vast majority of headphones.


 
  Yeah, low output impendence would be VERY nice now that I have actually have a problem with devices having one too high for IEM's.
   
  The E10 and E90K should be getting higher tiers soon I believe? Just guessing as both have been out for over a year now. I mean upgrades or replacements, whatever they want. The E12 for example in my mind is not an update to the E11 as the e12 is over 2.5X the price of the E11. Whilst the E90K would be an update as it is the same price bracket if not exact.


----------



## Katsukare

One thing I think I don't like about the E17, is the adjustments incremental in 2. Treble is too sharp. If the bass and treble went up in 1s it would be great.


----------



## MattTCG

You must have better ears than I do. Anything less than +2 would be inaudible to me. Oh, to young ears...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously, 1 decibel difference is too minute for the vast majority of people, FWIR.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Seriously, 1 decibel difference is too minute for the vast majority of people, FWIR.


 
  Most at this range but 1dB is still a good bit considering 2dB is vastly able to be telled apart


----------



## linglingjr

E7 looks 10000x better. That is all.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





linglingjr said:


> E7 looks 10000x better. That is all.


 
  IF they gave the E7 the E17's refine and less glossy but more professional look, I would agree with it looking better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E7 is taller than the E17, right? Been awhile since I've owned the E7, but I feel the E17 is shorter.


----------



## Chris J

New member of the E17 club here.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> New member of the E17 club here.


 
  Welcome to the E17 club. Although I don't officially belong anymore.


----------



## Lord Voldemort

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E7 is taller than the E17, right? Been awhile since I've owned the E7, but I feel the E17 is shorter.


 
  Seems to be the same height


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





lord voldemort said:


> Seems to be the same height


 
   
  The size is the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks guys. Been awhile since I've held the E7. My memory sucks, it seems.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Seriously, 1 decibel difference is too minute for the vast majority of people, FWIR.


 
   
   
  1dB is the difference where most people begin to hear it. At 2dB, nearly everyone can hear it.


----------



## beaver316

There's something that confuses me slightly with the E17. I want to plug it in to another amp and bypass the E17 amp, effectively using the E17 as a dac only. So to achieve this do i plug the external amp into the aux port and toggle LO Bypass? Or should i buy that Fiio L7 dock with a line out which was originally for the E7?


----------



## chuckf

Hey I am new to the forums and own the E17 for a very short time. Since I couldn't find anything helpful with google, I thought I might ask here since I read a thread from someone complaining. 16bit / 44100 hz would be the ONLY working selection for him.
   
  When I choose 16 bit / 44100 oder 24 bit / 44100 in my realtek driver (Onboard Sound MSI P67A Gd55), my E17 still displays 16bit / 48k. Why is that? I think the E17 supports that sampling rate?
   
  During gaming and listening to musik via Spotify I hear a "clicking". I didn't notice it while watching movies or listening to .flacs via foobar. Is this because my e17 won't switch to 44100 but Spotify and my game (Mass Effect 1) output 44100hz?
   
  I use optical connection. I purchased the e17 for desktop use only (i hope this was the right choice :/ )
   
  I hope this is the right place for my questions and I hope someone is able to help me.
   
  best regards!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chuckf said:


> Hey I am new to the forums and own the E17 for a very short time. Since I couldn't find anything helpful with google, I thought I might ask here since I read a thread from someone complaining. 16bit / 44100 hz would be the ONLY working selection for him.
> 
> When I choose 16 bit / 44100 oder 24 bit / 44100 in my realtek driver (Onboard Sound MSI P67A Gd55), my E17 still displays 16bit / 48k. Why is that? I think the E17 supports that sampling rate?
> 
> ...


 
   
  If the music being played isn't 24 bit, even selecting that you want to use 24bit won't get the E17 to switch to show 24 bit.
   
  The clicking could be from many things, sorry.
  Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> There's something that confuses me slightly with the E17. I want to plug it in to another amp and bypass the E17 amp, effectively using the E17 as a dac only. So to achieve this do i plug the external amp into the aux port and toggle LO Bypass? Or should i buy that Fiio L7 dock with a line out which was originally for the E7?


 
  To bypass the amp, you need the L7


----------



## chuckf

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *bowei006* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> If the music being played isn't 24 bit, even selecting that you want to use 24bit won't get the E17 to switch to show 24 bit.


 
  Thanks for the fast reply, my main problem wasn't if it was 16 or 24bit but that no matter what 44100 is not displayed at anytime.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chuckf said:


> Thanks for the fast reply, my main problem wasn't if it was 16 or 24bit but that no matter what 44100 is not displayed at anytime.


 
  I misread your qeustion
   
  This was asked 2 times in the last 5 pages with you being the third time. The answer to this question is actually in the FiiO documentation that is included with every new E17.



   
  The smaller (2) is what you should focus on. They just have it display that. It is not accurate.
   
http://www.fiio.com.cn/upfile/File/2012/20120107161255.pdf
   
  There is an inaccuracy in the official photo screenshot right there as 192KHz is not supported over USB.


----------



## chuckf

Thank you very much!


----------



## Vizknox

Hey, so I took your advice and searched around and read a bunch of forums, and after about a month of deliberating I decided to get the O2 amp from JDS. I understand a lot more now about pairing amps with headphones, however I can't seem to find information about the considerations that should be made when pairing a DAC with a certain headphone or a DAC with a certain amp. Is one more important than the other? That is, should I look for information about a good DAC to pair with the O2, or should I look for info about a good DAC to go with my AKG k702s? Regardless, there doesn't seem to be a ton of info on a less expensive DAC to go with the AKG k702s other than the fiio e7 or e11, and there is even less info about DACs to pair with the O2. I have a pretty cheap HP laptop I had to buy for school after I cracked the screen on my other one, so I assume I don't have a great sound card. Can you point me in the right direction, or do you have any suggestions on a DAC?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





vizknox said:


> Hey, so I took your advice and searched around and read a bunch of forums, and after about a month of deliberating I decided to get the O2 amp from JDS. I understand a lot more now about pairing amps with headphones, however I can't seem to find information about the considerations that should be made when pairing a DAC with a certain headphone or a DAC with a certain amp. Is one more important than the other? That is, should I look for information about a good DAC to pair with the O2, or should I look for info about a good DAC to go with my AKG k702s? Regardless, there doesn't seem to be a ton of info on a less expensive DAC to go with the AKG k702s other than the fiio e7 or e11, and there is even less info about DACs to pair with the O2. I have a pretty cheap HP laptop I had to buy for school after I cracked the screen on my other one, so I assume I don't have a great sound card. Can you point me in the right direction, or do you have any suggestions on a DAC?


 
  The "syngery" that some call it is mainly understood through direct and secondary experience. Meaning someone else telling you and having others confirm that the REd Wine is awesome with the LCD's. And what not, and then there are personal synergy's where you use technical knowledge on how the device sounds from others that give you a general description to form custom synergizings like taking a maybe "darker" amp and pairing it with a "cleaner" one for weird or awesome results. The last kind would be just looking at what people say of that type of equipment and using your knowledge of another, try to mix the two together.
   
  Look at dedicated source components. Basiucally standalone dAC's from Muse and others.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A man don't read no stinking manuals!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> A man don't read no stinking manuals!


 
  True, I rarely do as well either but when I have questions, it would be a good place to go.


----------



## gauphilic

could this tiny 'lil one bypass ipod DAC??
  http://sendstation.com/us/products/pocketdock/lineout-miniusb.html


----------



## RingingEars

So if the rumors are true and there is a chance of the new "i" products "lightning dock" being able to bypass the onboard DAC. Look like Fiio will in a good position to come out with a new dock cable... Hmmm, hmmm?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  L10? Maybe...


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





ringingears said:


> So if the rumors are true and there is a chance of the new "i" products "lightning dock" being able to bypass the onboard DAC. Look like Fiio will in a good position to come out with a new dock cable... Hmmm, hmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It will be a great news if lightning can support universal USB audio interface. or it will be a very bad news if lightning can only support digital out when the DAC includes a secret chip and has the MFi licence. 
   
  anyway, none can confirm it till Apple release the technical specification


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> A man don't read no stinking manuals!


 
   
  RTFM brother. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just giving you a little crap. You know I got nothing but love for ya!!


----------



## bowei006

Real men dont read manuals unless they are writting a review


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

matttcg said:


> RTFM brother.   Just giving you a little crap. You know I got nothing but love for ya!!




The only time I read a manual is if I can't get something to work. The E17 worked.


----------



## Chris J

Real men don't read manuals unless they are trying to set up a Home Theatre system *PROPERLY!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## pickleweed

just hooked this guy up for the first time.  and after much putting off buying a dac, because, well, it aint fun buying dacs.....i am blown away.  this thing just took my phones to a new level.  WOW.  very happy with it.


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





pickleweed said:


> just hooked this guy up for the first time.  and after much putting off buying a dac, because, well, *it aint fun buying dacs*.....i am blown away.  this thing just took my phones to a new level.  WOW.  very happy with it.


 
  That's just because you don't hang out haven't been here long enough...


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





pickleweed said:


> just hooked this guy up for the first time.  and after much putting off buying a dac, because, well, it aint fun buying dacs.....i am blown away.  this thing just took my phones to a new level.  WOW.  very happy with it.


 
   
  Be happy!
  Getting a better DAC will cost you! LOL
  $500-1000 and half of what you get for your money is more features, a nicer display, a nicer case, more bragging rights, etc.


----------



## yokken

I am now a proud E17 owner. Got it and my DT880 (250ohm) Premiums today, ordered Friday and got Saturday shipping for $9/item. Worth it. These cans are amazing compared to my HD280s, which are still nothing to scoff at compared to the majority of headphones available in stores. I hope people at work don't mind the slight sound leakage... also they are very comfortable, much more so than the HD280s. Also I was afraid the E17 wouldn't work my Nexus 7, but the Trinity kernel I'm using has the support built right in! I just have to have the E17 plugged in when I boot it. Now just to test on my SGS3... the E17 is a quality piece of hardware though. First DAC I've owned. I have a Fiio E5 I've been using at work with some Sennheiser MX580 earbuds which aren't anything special, but I figured it couldn't hurt. I can't wait to be jamming in style (and quality) when I work.
   
  /ramble
   
  Edit: PAGE 300 BITCHESSSSS!!!!


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





visanj said:


> Only thing is, if E17 is supported by android devices through USB OTG it will be great
> 
> Anyone tried with new Jelly Bean device (Nexus 7)?


 
   
   
  Nexus 7 & USB DAC/amp FiiO E17:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/627459/use-a-standard-usb-dac-with-a-nexus-7-step-by-step-guide
   
  custom Nexus 7 > digital audio stream >> USB OTG cable >> FiiO E17 >> Sennheiser HD 595


----------



## VickB

UPDATE:
   
  Took the unit to the retailer the next day. They also felt it was a faulty unit and replaced it with a new one. 
   
  The new one is working marvellously great. Thanks to  bowei006 for excellent piece of advice.
   
  Cheers


----------



## VickB

UPDATE:
  
 Took the unit to the retailer the next day. They also felt it was a faulty unit and replaced it with a new one. 
  
 The new one is working marvellously great. Thanks to  bowei006 for excellent piece of advice.
  
 Cheers


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





vickb said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Took the unit to the retailer the next day. They also felt it was a faulty unit and replaced it with a new one.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My reaction at you thanking me:
  [size=x-small]

[/size]
   
  But sure, I guess you're welcome? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All I did was advise you to return and get a refund or exchange after asking and making sure it wasn't general user error.


----------



## Katsukare

Quote: 





vickb said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Took the unit to the retailer the next day. They also felt it was a faulty unit and replaced it with a new one.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What happened to his E17?
   
  Last but not least when switching input devices, does your screen shake?


----------



## LordWormwood

Just a quick shot of my 'phones and the E17.
   
   

   
   
   
   
  Wormwood


----------



## Chris J

Yep, my and Q701 work great together! Who would have thought?


----------



## Misios

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Yep, my and Q701 work great together! Who would have thought?


 

 I find myself agreeing with the consensus, which states that the E17 doesn't have enough juice to drive the Q701 properly. I find the combo alright, but I agree with people saying the Q701/E17 combo is a bit "flat" and "lifeless" - so I ordered a NFB-15.1 to complement my Q701.
   
  I'll write my subjective experience of the difference between the two amp/dac's when I get to try the NFB-15.1.
   
  (I actually liked the HD 598+E17 better than Q701+E17)


----------



## bowei006

I wanted an NFB 5 but that was too expensive to me :/ so I got the 12.1 

For most songs, i prefer the O2 with dual wolfson flagships on the Q701 but with many other headphones direct nfb sound better subjectively


----------



## Misios

Do you prefer the O2 because it is more neutral than the NFB-12.1?
   
  I wrote an e-mail asking King-wa about the differences between NFB.12.1 and 15.1 and he gave me this response:
   
   
  Dear Raven,
 The NFB12.1 is a little warmer than the NFB15.1 which is neutral on the NFB15.1.
 There is same shipping cost.
 May I know where are you want to shipping to? WHich model you like?
 Kingwa


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





misios said:


> Do you prefer the O2 because it is more neutral than the NFB-12.1?
> 
> I wrote an e-mail asking King-wa about the differences between NFB.12.1 and 15.1 and he gave me this response:
> 
> ...


 
  I prefer the O2 with the Q701 and other "foward" vocal'd cans while the NFB is more fun and pleasureable for other types of music.
   
  The warmness (ღ˘⌣˘ღ)​   
  I didn't do an A/B of the exact differences between the O2 and NFB as it would make me unable to hide my audiophile bravado. In layman's terms. Ignorance is bliss. For example with the review sample of the Arcam I received, it was nice and warm and most consumers would like it, but as a reviewer, I chewed it apart on what it sounded like and after I did, everytime I listened to it personally for fun afterwards had the failings of the device pop up over and over again


----------



## LordWormwood

Bowei,

Forgive my n00bness but what/who's is the O2?

Wormwood


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full

Or if on the other side of the world...

http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/heaphone-amplifiers/ehp-o2-portable-audio-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## LordWormwood

Cheers MLE. 

Now wondering if I need one myself.....

Wormwood


----------



## bowei006

If you can DIY it may be cheaper but thats if you know how, already have soldering equipment and a well priced store for diy electronics and op amps. Otherwise buying one is best

But seriously only if you need it.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





misios said:


> I find myself agreeing with the consensus, which states that the E17 doesn't have enough juice to drive the Q701 properly. I find the combo alright, but I agree with people saying the Q701/E17 combo is a bit "flat" and "lifeless" - so I ordered a NFB-15.1 to complement my Q701.
> 
> I'll write my subjective experience of the difference between the two amp/dac's when I get to try the NFB-15.1.
> 
> (I actually liked the HD 598+E17 better than Q701+E17)


 
   
  Hmmmm, for me, I find that the E17 is powerful enough and sounds good enough for the Q701.
   
  OTOH, for the money, I don't expect a miracle out of a DAC/Amp which costs that much and is that small.       
  I'm using the E17 with a Wadia iPod dock via Co-ax or my laptop via USB.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17 is definitely not enough for the Q701. Yes, it will be loud enough (even off the Fiio E5), but the Q701 is one of those headphones that rewards you with PROPER amping.

Hell, you can make the 600ohm Beyers go loud enough off an E5. 

I guess ignorance is bliss.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E17 is definitely not enough for the Q701. Yes, it will be loud enough (even off the Fiio E5), but the Q701 is one of those headphones that rewards you with PROPER amping.
> Hell, you can make the 600ohm Beyers go loud enough off an E5.
> I guess ignorance is bliss.


 
  I can drive the Q701 with an E5. But does it sound "good" ? You only learn what sounds good with more units and differences. 
   
  My current setup
   
  PC S.PDIF out--> Audio gd NFB 12.1 Dual Wolfson WM8741 Flagship DAC output--> Denco wired RCA cables-->Custom Desktop Objective 2 with 2.4X and 6X Gain and Burr Brown op amps and NJM4556--> Q701


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I mean. They buy $250-$300 headphones, thinking some portable amp is doing them any justice. Driving the Q701 out of a portable amp like the E17 is an injustice to them. I'd spend the little for an E9/E09K to get quite a bit more performance out of them as opposed to the E17 alone.

The Q701 is the only headphone I've owned (aside from the HE-4) that really changed in sound depending on what I plugged them into. Most of the time going from the E9 to the NFB5 was a very slight difference. Not so with the Q701. They sound REALLY good off the E9, but noticeably better off the NFB5.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's what I mean. They buy $250-$300 headphones, thinking some portable amp is doing them any justice. Driving the Q701 out of a portable amp like the E17 is an injustice to them. I'd spend the little for an E9/E09K to get quite a bit more performance out of them as opposed to the E17.
> The Q701 is the only headphone I've owned (aside from the HE-4) that really changed in sound depending on what I plugged them into. Most of the time going from the E9 to the NFB5 was a very slight difference. Not so with the Q701. They sound REALLY good off the E9, but noticeably better off the NFB5.


 
  The E17 sounds fine and has the power. Having enough power with the warm E17 sound makes it sound "good". It does sound good, but the thing is, compared to what?
   
  I can't afford NFB5 so I just went with an Custom Desktop Version O2. My NFB12.1 is there for other headphones, other headphones sound better with the NFB12.1's amp as opposed to the O2, for "pop" and other mainstream music.
   
  If you have Q701's or most $250 full size cans, the E17 is ok, but not choice, and not recommended, as full open means home use for me and thus a home unit is needed


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E17 is definitely not enough for the Q701. Yes, it will be loud enough (even off the Fiio E5), but the Q701 is one of those headphones that rewards you with PROPER amping.
> Hell, you can make the 600ohm Beyers go loud enough off an E5.
> I guess ignorance is bliss.


 
   
  Don't worry, that doesn't sound the least bit arrogant or rude.
  I guess you can't read.
   
  Yes, I have heard Q701s with much better, much more expensive equipment. Yes, they do sound better with better equiment.   What a surprise! Thanks for illuminatiing us.


----------



## bowei006

He is just putting a more objective comment in. Yes we can make about Q701's working well and sounding good with it, but we must also remember that many will read these posts when deceding and thus wil imply that the E17 = Awesome with Q701 and $300 Open Full Sizers


----------



## Chris J

He could have worded it far better.
  Arrogance is bliss.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> He could have worded it far better.
> Arrogance is bliss.


 
  We are on Head-Fi online, it's hard to say that :/
   
  Arrogance haha. I believe that Ignornace is bliss. I used to be able to "enjoy" many forms of my songs in 128kbps many a years ago. ಥ_ಥ​


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> We are on Head-Fi online, it's hard to say that :/
> 
> Arrogance haha. I believe that Ignornace is bliss. I used to be able to "enjoy" many forms of my songs in 128kbps many a years ago. ಥ_ಥ​


 
  Sigh.
  To think there was once a time when I *truly* enjoyed the sound of my parent's terrible sounding console stereo.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Sigh.
> To think there was once a time when I *truly* enjoyed the sound of my parent's terrible sounding console stereo.


 
  To think when I laughed at all the Apple Earbuds wearing people the day I got Skullcandy Smoking Buds (MSRP $19.99) and thought myself superior and how good they sounded.... *shudder*


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> To think when I laughed at all the Apple Earbuds wearing people the day I got Skullcandy Smoking Buds (MSRP $19.99) and thought myself superior and how good they sounded.... *shudder*


 
  There was a time when I thought my Shure SE210s were awesome, now I just think they are very, very overpriced!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chris j said:


> He could have worded it far better.
> Arrogance is bliss.




Relax there guy, I wasn't aiming that comment to you directly. Sorry for your butthurt. People are so defensive.

Ignornace IS bliss in the audio world. However, anyone who says the E17 is enough for the Q701, is potentially misleading a lot of people into spending $400+ on a combo that is achieving a fraction of it's potential. That's a lot of wasted dollars when they could have spent the money off the E17 into equipment that would truly suit the Q701.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Relax there guy, I wasn't aiming that comment to you directly. Sorry for your butthurt. People are so defensive.
> Ignornace IS bliss in the audio world. However, anyone who says the E17 is enough for the Q701, is potentially misleading a lot of people into spending $400+ on a combo that is achieving a fraction of it's potential. That's a lot of wasted dollars when they could have spent the money off the E17 into equipment that would truly suit the Q701.


 
  Fair enough.
  I normally use a Matrix M Stage and a good CD player with my Qs. Sure, the Qs deserve better than a Matrix M.  
   
  I certainly wouldn't say that the E17 is "the only DAC/amp you will ever need for a Q".
  I'm just surprised at how nice the combo sounds, and it is nice and small,  i.e easy to grab a Wadia 170i, an iPod and an E17 and go out on my dek with a pair of Qs. Nice and _almost_ simple.
   
  But after hearing a Lyr, my heart is filled with lust.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish I still had the Lyr when I had the Q701. I could imagine it being a truly wonderful combo.


----------



## Chris J

I heard a Lyr and a pair of Qs for about 10 minutes a few weeks ago, it was one of those "Ahhhhhhh!" moments!


----------



## theturx

Right headphone sound is coming too low. Settings, not a mistake. Headphone mp3 player sound is equal on both sides. What could be the problem, what can I do to fix?


----------



## bowei006

Check left and right channel setting on E17. Double check that is if you havent already

Do some testing to makre sure it is just e17


----------



## Swimsonny

Here is my E17 unboxing as well as a set up and use guide.

I also do size comparison with other amps.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juIzymhVALw&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]


----------



## TunnelVision

Quote: 





swimsonny said:


> Here is my E17 unboxing as well as a set up and use guide.
> I also do size comparison with other amps.


 
   
  Just tried to watch and says This vtdeo is unavailable


----------



## Swimsonny

Hmm thats odd. Its working sweet on the youtube page.
   
  Hmm try this link:
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juIzymhVALw&feature=youtu.be


----------



## zycker

My E17 is being really annonying. I'm using it on my computer (Gigabyte H55N, Windows 7 64 bit, Fiio driver 2012/6/22) and after 30 minutes to one hour of playing music and browsing the web I've got this :
  - if e17 plugged in USB 2 port (intel chipset) : BSOD with "bugcode usb driver" message
  - if e17 plugged in USB 3 port (renesas chip) : shuttering for few second and then no sound at all but e17 still detected by Windows and appear on the sound manager. If I restart or  unplug/plug th e17 I still got no sound. 
   
  It happens more often if I start a flash video with Opera browser and with Windows Media Player still opened but paused.
   
  My E17 is configured on 24/96 setting via Fiio software.


----------



## bowei006

It could be the streams caused a system erro. Try with another computer with extended use to isolate what is causing it


----------



## Thankful1

What does the "System Set" function do?


----------



## CaelK

So I'm going to apologize, but there's hundreds of pages of posts to muck through so I'll just ask the question.
   
  Today, my E17 refused to turn on for some reason - tapping the Power button had zero effect. When I plugged the thing into my computer, the power button flashed red for literally a microsecond or two then when dark. I did this multiple times before unhooking the unit.
   
  So, a few hours later, I decide to plug it back in to see what happens. This time, the power button turns red and stays that way. After a few seconds of bewilderment, I unhook it and turn it off, back on, everything's fine. Battery shows 5/5 bars. E17 was accepting USB input the entire time.
   
  Anyone knows what happened here? The battery was near full, yet the amp wouldn't power on. It also refused to charge momentarily, though after a few hours of the device sitting around, it suddenly started working again.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





caelk said:


> So I'm going to apologize, but there's hundreds of pages of posts to muck through so I'll just ask the question.
> 
> Today, my E17 refused to turn on for some reason - tapping the Power button had zero effect. When I plugged the thing into my computer, the power button flashed red for literally a microsecond or two then when dark. I did this multiple times before unhooking the unit.
> 
> ...


 
  There are some quirks in the E17 that have happened to me as well where I had to plug and unplug and then try again before it would turn on. I can only guess that it may have been the E17's own instructions and programming had an error and what not. If this problem continues or you start getting weird battery life or other various problems. Then that is not something that is "normal". 
   
  Quote: 





thankful1 said:


> What does the "System Set" function do?


 
   
   
  http://youtu.be/axAewk-qFGw?t=11m54s
   
   
   
  Do you mean Default Set? That is a sytem reset.


----------



## fuzzyash

Quote: 





caelk said:


> So I'm going to apologize, but there's hundreds of pages of posts to muck through so I'll just ask the question.
> 
> Today, my E17 refused to turn on for some reason - tapping the Power button had zero effect. When I plugged the thing into my computer, the power button flashed red for literally a microsecond or two then when dark. I did this multiple times before unhooking the unit.
> 
> ...


 
  i had it too
  its the battery running out
  attach the usb cable to your comp, and the red light turns on
  dont turn it on- just leave it off and plugged in for maybe a minute to let it charge a bit
  then try turning it on, and turn on usb charging as fast as possible (or it may automatically be set to usb charge i dont remember)
   
  if it doesnt turn on, leave it in connected a bit longer without turning it on


----------



## potatoos

What fuzzyash said.
 Also, in case you didn't know, when used as a DAC, there is really no need to have the display on. I have found out that with the display off, the battery doesn't run down (at least, it hasn't on me after a week or so). You turn off the display by turning on the hold. That will prevent your battery from running down, and from burn in on the screen. I have heard people say that they leave their amps on 24/7, so you might consider that, though I personally turn it off when not in use for more than an hour or so.


----------



## Dioser

OMG.. My friend tried my combo-setup E11/E17/L7 and by fault disconnected the L7 from the E17, this would be okey I guess, if he just had been* *opservative* *to plug it correct in again.. (but he did not)
  It istant shut down, and now it wont turn on again. I tried both to replug it into com likewise wallplug, and read light will sure enough come on, mac will likewise detect it as plugged in, but it sure wont turn on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I did several times try to reset it with no luck, is it done? What do you think I could try now to get it working again? 
  (really stupid it can plug in both ways, if it results in a device melt down, omg should never have let him try it)
   
  Anyone got a suggestion i didn't already try? Would be so appreciated if any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Greetings from here


----------



## ClieOS

L7 can't be plugged both way, so your friend probably forced it in. Something must have burnt out.


----------



## Dioser

It can, i've tried after with no power on the E17
  Dammit, guess i'll have to buy another new device, still can't power on or reset, so be careful setting it correct ya'll


----------



## potatoos

You shouldn't be able to plug it in in reverse. If you look at the connectors inside of the plug of the E17, you will see that it is offset to the back of the device. That means that if you plug in the L7 the wrong way, something has to be forced out of the way. It is likely that power got set where it wasn't supposed to be sent, that something in side got fired, and that the connector is damaged. That one is probably done for. Next time, don't let anyone who isn't careful touch it. You can't keep buying new ones because of stupid friends (or maybe you can. I don't know how much money you have). And be careful yourself. If anything gets plug in where it doesn't belong, who knows what will happen to the internal components.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





potatoos said:


> You shouldn't be able to plug it in in reverse. If you look at the connectors inside of the plug of the E17, you will see that it is offset to the back of the device. That means that if you plug in the L7 the wrong way, something has to be forced out of the way. It is likely that power got set where it wasn't supposed to be sent, that something in side got fired, and that the connector is damaged. That one is probably done for. Next time, don't let anyone who isn't careful touch it. You can't keep buying new ones because of stupid friends (or maybe you can. I don't know how much money you have). And be careful yourself. If anything gets plug in where it doesn't belong, who knows what will happen to the internal components.


 
   
  This makes me nervous. A couple of times i accidently connected my headphone jack into the SPDIF in. I forced it in a little harder than im used to in the headphone in, but it still fit perfectly. 
   
  Do you think there may be any damage there?


----------



## Dioser

Quote: 





potatoos said:


> You shouldn't be able to plug it in in reverse. If you look at the connectors inside of the plug of the E17, you will see that it is offset to the back of the device. That means that if you plug in the L7 the wrong way, something has to be forced out of the way. It is likely that power got set where it wasn't supposed to be sent, that something in side got fired, and that the connector is damaged. That one is probably done for. Next time, don't let anyone who isn't careful touch it. You can't keep buying new ones because of stupid friends (or maybe you can. I don't know how much money you have). And be careful yourself. If anything gets plug in where it doesn't belong, who knows what will happen to the internal components.


 
  yeah think you are right, but btw, the connecters isn't offset, none of em, at least not on mine, they are both perfectly centered..
  Oh my bad, u mean the actually connecter inside, you are right, but guess he didn't look for it
  But yeah, kind of learned my lesson this time, next time, with anything, its gonna stay in my hand LOL
  Actually dont think ill go for another Fiio, of any kind, none of the produks is more than 14 days old, but sure enough, not their fault I got a stupid mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (even though i liked it for the time being). I'll just have to wait silly 5 days for buying something new, I'll live it till then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Thx a lot for your imput, was just feeling I have to be sure before investing in new stuff, much appreciated! 
   
  And great forum btw


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> This makes me nervous. A couple of times i accidently connected my headphone jack into the SPDIF in. I forced it in a little harder than im used to in the headphone in, but it still fit perfectly.
> 
> Do you think there may be any damage there?


 
  Both S/PDIF mini toslink and headphone jack use a 3.5mm format. They aren't completely the same but depending on how the jack was made, how tight the metal prong or braces were may have an effect. Continue using and watch for adverse effects.


----------



## ClieOS

beaver316 said:


> This makes me nervous. A couple of times i accidently connected my headphone jack into the SPDIF in. I forced it in a little harder than im used to in the headphone in, but it still fit perfectly.
> 
> Do you think there may be any damage there?




Don't worry, unlike L7, which plug into the FiiO dock where there is power connector inside, the SPDIF connection has no power and nothing you can burn out. The only bad thing is you are going to hear some static noise over your headphone (which is actually the SPDIF signal).


----------



## potatoos

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Don't worry, unlike L7, which plug into the FiiO dock where there is power connector inside, the SPDIF connection has no power and nothing you can burn out. The only bad thing is you are going to hear some static noise over your headphone (which is actually the SPDIF signal).


 

 +1
 The SPDIF is an input, meaning that there is no power going from the device to it. The jack on your headphones takes signal from the device in the 3.5mm output. That means that with the headphones jack in the SPDIF port, there is no current being passed of any kind. You won't fry anything that way (at least, not to my knowledge), however you might damage the inside of the port itself, but everything still fits well, you should be fine. The worst thing that might happen is some static, like ClieOS said.


----------



## CaelK

Quote: 





fuzzyash said:


> i had it too
> its the battery running out
> attach the usb cable to your comp, and the red light turns on
> dont turn it on- just leave it off and plugged in for maybe a minute to let it charge a bit
> ...


 
   

 > attach the usb cable to your comp, and the red light turns on
   
  Nah, the problem was that the red light didn't turn on when I plugged it in (that should mean full charge, right?) but the device wouldn't power up, so I just unhooked it altogether. Thought it could be the Hold switch, but I flipped it up and down tapping the power each time and it wouldn't turn on. A few hours later, I did the same thing, and it was working just fine, and the display said the battery was full despite not being plugged in since the first episode. Wasn't lying either - it lasted a good 3 or 4 hours without any further charge, and it tells me it's got 4/5 bars of battery. My battery's definitely good.
   
  Well I'm not the only one who's seen this at least, I'm chalking this one up to manufacturing defect right now. Warranty is one year, maybe I'll get a replacement when I think a new production run's been completed?


----------



## lentus

So Jelly Bean is out for the Galaxy S3.
  Can anyone confirm whether the FiiO E17 works with JB?


----------



## goody

HI,
      Guys i dont know what wrongs with my fiio e17 ..sometimes when i plug it into my windows 7 pc it works fine and other times when i plug it in i get no sound whatsoever from the unit, even though the sound is coming through the pc no sound from my e17...i then use it on my laptop and it works perfectly ..it is always like a hit and miss when i use the usb sometimes on my pc it works fine and now as i am writing this i get bloody distortion ..whats up with it?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





goody said:


> HI,
> Guys i dont know what wrongs with my fiio e17 ..sometimes when i plug it into my windows 7 pc it works fine and other times when i plug it in i get no sound whatsoever from the unit, even though the sound is coming through the pc no sound from my e17...i then use it on my laptop and it works perfectly ..it is always like a hit and miss when i use the usb sometimes on my pc it works fine and now as i am writing this i get bloody distortion ..whats up with it?


 

 Did you check to make sure that playback devices is set the USB:E17 DAC or whatever it calls itself on your computer
 In the playback settings, go with 16 bit 44100 KHz and not whatever you are trying, try this first.
 IF you are using Foobar, or any media player that is more enthusiast friendly, please try 16 bit and 44.1KHz instead of 96KHz or goodness forbid an unsupported format
 Make sure that the E17 is set to USB input


----------



## goody

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Did you check to make sure that playback devices is set the USB:E17 DAC or whatever it calls itself on your computer
> In the playback settings, go with 16 bit 44100 KHz and not whatever you are trying, try this first.
> IF you are using Foobar, or any media player that is more enthusiast friendly, please try 16 bit and 44.1KHz instead of 96KHz or goodness forbid an unsupported format
> Make sure that the E17 is set to USB input


 
  1.yep thats done always check that
   
  2. My playback settings is 48000 16bit i will change that 
   
  3.Not using foobar
   
  4.Yep thats done 
    
   The only thing i will correct is the playback setting as mine is 48000k 16 bit...but as i said earlier it works sometimes and other times in does not  Thanks


----------



## goody

Cant seem to find the playback settings in the menu of my e17


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





goody said:


> Cant seem to find the playback settings in the menu of my e17


 
  There is none
   
  Can you try with S/PDIF or AUX to see what the problem is?
   
  Or try another PC


----------



## goody

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> There is none
> 
> Can you try with S/PDIF or AUX to see what the problem is?
> 
> Or try another PC


 
  it works fine on my laptop thats what baffles me AUX works fine as well ..


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





goody said:


> it works fine on my laptop thats what baffles me AUX works fine as well ..


 
  Can you explain what you even mean by "it" and "laptop" as in this conversation. "It" generally means the E17 but I'm not sure if you are even talking about the headphone out.
   
  So your headphones works perfectly from laptop headphone and you get sound, and AUX works as well on the E17 and thus the amplification section works well.
   
   
  Please try USB E17 on another computer.


----------



## goody

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Can you explain what you even mean by "it" and "laptop" as in this conversation. "It" generally means the E17 but I'm not sure if you are even talking about the headphone out.
> 
> So your headphones works perfectly from laptop headphone and you get sound, and AUX works as well on the E17 and thus the amplification section works well.
> 
> ...


 
  I tried the USB E17 on my laptop and it worked perfectly there does not seem to be a problem with the e17...i am suspecting the usb drivers on my pc


----------



## bowei006

I see now. DESKTOP PC. A laptop is a PC too which is why I was confused


It may be playback settings on pc, southbridge drivers or what not. E17 uses class 1 drivers meaning they are self contained but it may have installed unproperly.

I am not recommending a southbridge driver upgrade unless you have no choice left and am not taking responsibility if you botch it up. Motherboard based drivers can mess your pc up if you dont do them right.


----------



## beaver316

I have a question about using the E17 and maximizing battery life. I use my E17 exclusively with USB, so connected to my computer at all times. I always have usb charging off, so effectively the E17 is always using it's battery. It runs down to 1 bar, then i charge it full, then leave it run down to 1 bar, repeat. Is this the best way to preserve the battery? Or should i occasionally have usb charging on?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I have a question about using the E17 and maximizing battery life. I use my E17 exclusively with USB, so connected to my computer at all times. I always have usb charging off, so effectively the E17 is always using it's battery. It runs down to 1 bar, then i charge it full, then leave it run down to 1 bar, repeat. Is this the best way to preserve the battery? Or should i occasionally have usb charging on?


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/4005#post_8532041
   
   
  Quote:ME 





> *Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
> When the device is in use on Computer, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17 is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times charging from higher up won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually *bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries. *HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE a month* as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally!


----------



## beaver316

So i was fine all along. Thanks for the post almighty panda


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> So i was fine all along. Thanks for the post almighty panda


 
  Just remember that a full charge and full battery depletion every time is actually BAD. For Li-ion batteries like the kind used in the E17. For unconstant (storage) E17 users, a full cycle every half year should be fine. But for often users, follow normal procedures of charging when it gets to bar 1 from the end or even two or whatever(say you are leaving the house and have 2 bars left but need the power, just charge it, not a big deal). And for those that use it very often 24/7. A cycle from full battery and then running it until it's dead is recommended every 1-2 months.


----------



## GSARider

Got my shiny new Fiio E17 today, has improvs the sound from my IE80's. Now looking at the E9K and whether it's worth buying...not sure about that at the moment as I'm pretty pleased with the sound from the E17. 

Anyone care to help a newbie with what the advantage is please...?


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Got my shiny new Fiio E17 today, has improvs the sound from my IE80's. Now looking at the E9K and whether it's worth buying...not sure about that at the moment as I'm pretty pleased with the sound from the E17.
> Anyone care to help a newbie with what the advantage is please...?


 
   
  You would only need an E9K if you wanted to power a more demanding headphone, but the IE80s are only 16ohm so the E17 should be fine. I have the E17 and IE80 btw, awesome pairing


----------



## GSARider

Thanks Beaver, I also have a pair of Bose Quiet Comforts and dare I say it...a pair of Beats Pro and I'm looking to get either another pair of open back Sennehisers or Beyer Dynamics.


----------



## zycker

Big question, should I sell my e17 that doesn't work in usb with my Galaxy Nexus even if it may or may not be possible and wait to buy the e18 ?
  I know that we haven't many detail on this but my use for this is 70% as USB dac on my computer and 30% with my phone and I have many driver instability with this dac on my computer.
  xDuoo XP-1 is quiet interesting, same WM8740 chip as the e17 but support Windows, Mac and Android 4.


----------



## Grift

Interesting. My E17 screen has gone really dim. I guess the backlight is dying? Maybe I should contact Fiio and see if I can get a fix for it.


----------



## zycker

It's an OLED screen, each pixel produce his own light. There is no backlighting.


----------



## hawk1410

My new E17 seems to have stopped working. I had it plugged into my Macbook Air(via USB) and was listening to some music. I turned it off and now it wont turn on. USB charging was enabled, highly doubt it ran out of battery. Been charging it since then. The red charging indicator is glowing but pressing the power button does not turn it on. Dont have it on Hold either. Any ideas?
   
  Edit : used a pin to push the reset button and it is working, dont know why i did not think of that before posting.


----------



## Necrontyr

use a safety pin, push the reset button, sometimes it gets "stuck" in dead mode


----------



## hawk1410

Quote: 





necrontyr said:


> use a safety pin, push the reset button, sometimes it gets "stuck" in dead mode


 
  Yeah, did that right after I posted, it is working now. Why didn't i think of it before posting. Thanks


----------



## Kjeldsen

_A few newbish questions incoming:_
   
  From what i've read about amps on this site, some have a "balanced" interface between components and some have "single ended". Which is the E17? 
   
  I've also noticed that cables in the same manner can be terminated for Balanced/SE? Why do cables need to match the internals of amps?
   
  Thanks for your time!


----------



## ClieOS

kjeldsen said:


> _A few newbish questions incoming:_
> 
> From what i've read about amps on this site, some have a "balanced" interface between components and some have "single ended". Which is the E17?
> 
> ...




The topic of balanced vs. SE goes much further than what I can explain, but in short, E17 is SE. Most headphones are designed for SE as well.

In SE, both the right and the left channel are referenced to the ground channel (only 3 wire needed). In balanced, the left and right are converted to Left+, Left-, Right+, and Right-. The original goal of balanced audio is for noise rejection during long distance cable transmission, but people find balanced audio sounds good in their opinion, as it doubles the slew rate. Since balanced audio must carries 4 signal, typical headphone (which usually only has 3 wires inside) need to be recable, or at least separate the ground wire to two so you get 4 wires for 4 signal.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> The topic of balanced vs. SE goes much further than what I can explain, but in short, E17 is SE. Most headphones are designed for SE as well.
> In SE, both the right and the left channel are referenced to the ground channel (only 3 wire needed). In balanced, the left and right are converted to Left+, Left-, Right+, and Right-. The original goal of balanced audio is for noise rejection during long distance cable transmission, but people find balanced audio sounds good in their opinion, as it doubles the slew rate. Since balanced audio must carries 4 signal, typical headphone (which usually only has 3 wires inside) need to be recable, or at least separate the ground wire to two so you get 4 wires for 4 signal.


 
   
  Thanks ClieOS. I assume that most default cables that come with headphones are SE then? Mostly i was confused about whether or not i have to order a new headphone cable (HE-400, once i get them ordered).


----------



## ClieOS

HE-400 comes in SE cable, you don't need to change it.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





clieos said:


> HE-400 comes in SE cable, you don't need to change it.


 
   
  Perfect, thanks.


----------



## Necrontyr

Any TRS connector is single ended, ( Tip - Ring - Sleeve ) Where the Sleeve is the ground and tip / ring are the +V for the left and right channels, so thats your 3.5mm or 6.35mm jacks sorted.
   
  When you are going Balanced you will most likely be using an XLR or mini XLR connector to give you 4 pins to connect to the amplifier , so re-terminating a cable you have , or getting a 2nd cable with XLR connectors is your options.


----------



## ClieOS

necrontyr said:


> Any TRS connector is single ended, ( Tip - Ring - Sleeve ) Where the Sleeve is the ground and tip / ring are the +V for the left and right channels, so thats your 3.5mm or 6.35mm jacks sorted.
> 
> When you are going Balanced you will most likely be using an XLR or mini XLR connector to give you 4 pins to connect to the amplifier , so re-terminating a cable you have , or getting a 2nd cable with XLR connectors is your options.




Just to add that it is mot necessary an XLR / mini-XLR termination with HifiMan's headphone. Their own balanced cable are terminated in TRRS, which is their choice for portable use. I think there is a TRRS to XLR adapter as well. Unfortunately every manufacturer on balanced portable gear all have different termination of their own. The situation is kind of messy and it all depends on what amp you are using.


----------



## Necrontyr

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Their own balanced cable are terminated in TRRS, which is their choice for portable use.


 
   
  TRRS for balanced ? What would be the point, I wasnt aware of any desktop amplifiers that supported such a format , seems a bit pants, it is a huge mess, the closest we have to a standard is XLR / mini ... oh well , ya learn something new every day.


----------



## ClieOS

It isn't for desktop, but for their HM801's balanced amp module. XLR is too big for portable use, that's why iBasso and RSA all adopt their own version of balanced plug.


----------



## dmcs414

Hey all,
   
  I'm getting conflicting reports from people as to whether the E17 EQ functions work when you use an L7 line-out dock.  Can anyone positively confirm or deny this who has and uses an L7 with their E17?
   
  Secondly,  the biggest plus for me about the E17 is the clean bass boost I can get with EQ.  I find it much cleaner and with far less distortion than EQ in foobar.  Maybe I'm not doing EQ right, but that's been my experience.  I can also get to where I want the sound much faster with E17, and I don't spend all my time tweaking and not listening.  
   
  That said,  I've been wanting to acquire a desktop DAC since I always listen to my rig at home.  Is there a desktop DAC that offers this same kind of functionality, or would work better with foobar EQ if I wanted to tweak like I do with my E17?  Thanks in advance,


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm getting conflicting reports from people as to whether the E17 EQ functions work when you use an L7 line-out dock.  Can anyone positively confirm or deny this who has and uses an L7 with their E17?
> 
> ...


 
  What you are doing when you "EQ" and the programs and how you are using it is probably the incorrect one.
   
  Most audiophile DAC's don't offer any EQ. And those that do work like the E17. Not with a specific program.


----------



## dmcs414

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What you are doing when you "EQ" and the programs and how you are using it is probably the incorrect one.
> 
> Most audiophile DAC's don't offer any EQ. And those that do work like the E17. Not with a specific program.


 
   
  Probably not the correct one, huh?  Guess I fail the audiophile game.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Probably not the correct one, huh?  Guess I fail the audiophile game.


 
  Real EQ is actually very hard. There are some guides online but the problem is
   
  They are generic, and are meant to teach you programs and how to use it and then you go off on your path
   
  They may be very very custom made and tuned for each person through very in depth tutorial or just very general. 
   
  The programs listed are generally very ..not publicized and links and versions and programs may not be availble anymore or with bad support and or different versions used.
   
  RPGWizard has a guide and Joe Bloggs has a guide. RPG wizards is easier to follow and more general teaching you and then you do it and try by yourself. While Joe's is a custom approach..only problem? His guide sucks. I love you Joe and I know you are reading this but that is the only thing to say. Why? He wrote it in the most unorganized way ever...it is literally everywhere with links linking elsewhere with no contiuation and ..everything.
   
  I am getting custom help step by step right now from him on a REAL EQ.
   
  The regular EQ is easy. Get a good program that has the features and abilities to do what you want(some don't) and then ...raise or lower some FQ and what not and see if you like it...but those generally may not work too well for some.


----------



## chuckf

I have a question regarding the non portable use of the E17, when plugged in via USB and USB CHARGE set to OFF, the battery decharges. Audio input is optical, not USB. I thought I could keep it powered via USB and do not use the battery at all. Although the lifetime of one time seems to be amazing, I own the E17 for about 3 weeks and had to charge it two times, almost daily use. Or is this battery natural because the energie can't be stored forever?


----------



## bowei006

Usb ports in general supply 500ma, which is enough for e17 even with charge off but the e17 is just designed like that. No question really. Just design.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Hey guys.
   
  I got my E17 and i'm trying to use it in this setup:
   
   
  Xonar Essense ST --(AUX)--> E17 (AUX) ---> Headphones
   
   
  I.e. I'm trying use my PC DAC and just use the E17 for amping. But for some reason, i can't get AUX to work, even when the E17 is not USB charging. I've tried changing the default playback device back to Xonar Essence (Was set to E17 when i plugged it in)  in my sound settings in Win7, to no avail.
   
  Any ideas?
  Cheers!


----------



## wrexgrunt

Why is your headphones plugged in the AUX of E17?


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





wrexgrunt said:


> Why is your headphones plugged in the AUX of E17?


 
   
  Drawing wasn't clear : )   Xonar Essense ST --(AUX)-->       E17 (Set to Aux)  ----(Headphone out)-->    Headphones
   
But disregard. For some reason, when i set default playback device to my Xonar, it somehow reverted back to the E17 SPDIF device. I did a reboot and it works now.
   
But there's some really annoying noise when i run it through the E17 which isn't there if i just plug the headphones directly into the Xonar. Gain is 0, even. Ugh.


----------



## Mic14

I need help... While listening to music I hooked the headphone cable around a door knob and ripped the headphone jack out of the FiiO E17. Now, the headphone line out on the E17 is loose, broken; no audio unless I hold the headphone jack.  I suspect the the headphone line out is internally broken.  Is the E17 shot or can this be fixed?
   
  Thanks


----------



## GSARider

Well after a week of listening via the E17, I went back to iTouch alone and it sounds very tinny and without substance...listening to my usual commute playlist...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mic14 said:


> I need help... While listening to music I hooked the headphone cable around a door knob and ripped the headphone jack out of the FiiO E17. Now, the headphone line out on the E17 is loose, broken; no audio unless I hold the headphone jack.  I suspect the the headphone line out is internally broken.  Is the E17 shot or can this be fixed?
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  It depends, picture or video? But most likely unless you are skilled with an solder iron and various other things, its ...gonna be a pain to use.
  Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Drawing wasn't clear : )   Xonar Essense ST --(AUX)-->       E17 (Set to Aux)  ----(Headphone out)-->    Headphones
> 
> But disregard. For some reason, when i set default playback device to my Xonar, it somehow reverted back to the E17 SPDIF device. I did a reboot and it works now.
> 
> But there's some really annoying noise when i run it through the E17 which isn't there if i just plug the headphones directly into the Xonar. Gain is 0, even. Ugh.


 
  Your playback device needs to be set to the ASUS, you then take a 3.5mm transfer cable(both ends are male 3.5mm) and plug one end into the main volume out(generally green color) of the ASUS card and the other into the E17 AUX in on the bottom and set the E17 to AUX. And then done.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It depends, picture or video? But most likely unless you are skilled with an solder iron and various other things, its ...gonna be a pain to use.
> Your playback device needs to be set to the ASUS, you then take a 3.5mm transfer cable(both ends are male 3.5mm) and plug one end into the main volume out(generally green color) of the ASUS card and the other into the E17 AUX in on the bottom and set the E17 to AUX. And then done.


 
   
  Thanks bo. I seem to be doing all this, and i can use the E17 in the way you describe. The Headphone out of the Asus is a Jack, so i have a Jack-MiniJack converter on it, into the E17 Aux (set to aux). What i'm experiencing is some really annoying disturbance in the signal this way, which i don't get when i'm plugged directly into the Asus. Could it be that the E17 is actually amping something that i wasn't noticing before? Might a different cable help? I'm using the standard extension cord for my Denon AH-D1100's.
   
  Another question: If i had a pair of headphones with full size Jack, how would you use that with an E17, since it's just 3.5mm? Do you guys use converters?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> For this cable * Mini M/M 5.0mm OD Molded Cable, *you need to use the optical adapter, connect the 3.5mm connector to your Dell XPS, and them connect the other end of connector ( square shape ) to the optical adapter, and the plug the adapter to the SPDIF in of E17.
> 
> BTW, we are making a new 3.5 mini to 3.5 mini Toslink cable so our user don't need to use the adapter which may cause signal loss and some other problem. the new cable like below, the retail price will be around $10. model name L12, ETA, JULY


 
   
  I've tried searching for this cable at many of FiiO's european distributors, without luck. Is this product not out yet or am i just looking in the wrong place?


----------



## duyu

I am planning to buy a DAP/android phone pairing it up with my E17.
   
  I saw that new ipod touch 5G has no hope (even line out) in supporting E17.
  iPad is not portable.
  Using the DAC of E17 is not a must, as long as the DAP has good SQ with it's line out.
   
  Any recommendation? I am especially interested in Android solution.
  Thanks!


----------



## wrexgrunt

Just a thought but you could be overdriving your E17 with the Xonar output(analog). I would go the S/PDIF route if I were you.
   
  I can't find the specs for the max input voltage for the E17 AUX, but Xonar has an output voltage of up to 2 Vrms.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





wrexgrunt said:


> Just a thought but you could be overdriving your E17 with the Xonar output(analog). I would go the S/PDIF route if I were you.
> 
> I can't find the specs for the max input voltage for the E17 AUX, but Xonar has an output voltage of up to 2 Vrms.


 
  That's alos a very good one, but it generally adds major distortion, THD and basically just heavy distortion.
   
  Quote: 





duyu said:


> I am planning to buy a DAP/android phone pairing it up with my E17.
> 
> I saw that new ipod touch 5G has no hope (even line out) in supporting E17.
> iPad is not portable.
> ...


 
  It seems you are considering Apple so an iPod Touch 4G?
   
  Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Thanks bo. I seem to be doing all this, and i can use the E17 in the way you describe. The Headphone out of the Asus is a Jack, so i have a Jack-MiniJack converter on it, into the E17 Aux (set to aux). What i'm experiencing is some really annoying disturbance in the signal this way, which i don't get when i'm plugged directly into the Asus. Could it be that the E17 is actually amping something that i wasn't noticing before? Might a different cable help? I'm using the standard extension cord for my Denon AH-D1100's.
> 
> Another question: If i had a pair of headphones with full size Jack, how would you use that with an E17, since it's just 3.5mm? Do you guys use converters?
> 
> Cheers!


 
  Are you plugging a Quarter inch TO eighth inch jack into the headphone out? It is the black one right next to the white RCA out. 
   
  Type in quarter inch adapter if you don't know what I mean.
   
  It may be that it is in fact amping something, try the E17 by itself to see if this issue is a fault E17
   
  Nope, most full size headphones that someone with the E17 would generally buy come with a removable Quarter inch headphone jack where when you twist it off, becomes eighth inch. Those that can't thread off generally shouldn't be used with the e17
   
  It may also be the E17 in the position you are putting it with some cables are getting EMI
   
  That cable doesn't seem out yet.


----------



## jwusoccer

Hey everyone, i'm getting my lyr in today, and i'm not sure how exactly i should use the e17 as a dac. I have the l7, so would i use the line out on that and the lo bypass switch? Or, would i use the headphone out. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Swimsonny

my e17 review
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/630510/review-fiio-e17-a-very-solid-little-device


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Are you plugging a Quarter inch TO eighth inch jack into the headphone out? It is the black one right next to the white RCA out.
> 
> Type in quarter inch adapter if you don't know what I mean.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm using a quarter inch adapter into the headphone out on the Asus card, that's correct (I did not know the jack sizes in inches, thanks). I've tried the E17 through USB so the noise doesn't seem to be the fault of the E17. Also, when i use it as AMP/DAC with my Ipod, there's no noise at all either. I guess maybe i should get a proper cable to use with my PC.. maybe even use the SPDIF/Toslink out. 
   
  And regarding headphones for the E17, what do you mean when you say "thread off"? 
   
  Thanks for putting up with all these questions!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> I'm using a quarter inch adapter into the headphone out on the Asus card, that's correct (I did not know the jack sizes in inches, thanks). I've tried the E17 through USB so the noise doesn't seem to be the fault of the E17. Also, when i use it as AMP/DAC with my Ipod, there's no noise at all either. I guess maybe i should get a proper cable to use with my PC.. maybe even use the SPDIF/Toslink out.
> 
> And regarding headphones for the E17, what do you mean when you say "thread off"?
> 
> Thanks for putting up with all these questions!


 
  The quarter inch adapters generaly "scew" off.
   
   
  Try a S/PDIF cable
   
   
  any mini toslink to mini toslink cable will do fine.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The quarter inch adapters generaly "scew" off.
> 
> 
> Try a S/PDIF cable
> ...


 
   
   
  Cheers bo. Thanks for clearing things up a bit. Seems like i'm ready for another round of tests once i get some new cables


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Cheers bo. Thanks for clearing things up a bit. Seems like i'm ready for another round of tests once i get some new cables


 
  they are $5 on ebay, at this price point, just getting the popular most bought one will do.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> they are $5 on ebay, at this price point, just getting the popular most bought one will do.


 
   
  Cool, i'll check it out. Would there be any sense in getting a regular Toslink cable and using mini adapters, for more flexibility? I noticed the E17 came with one.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Cool, i'll check it out. Would there be any sense in getting a regular Toslink cable and using mini adapters, for more flexibility? I noticed the E17 came with one.


 
  For this NO. Most cheap ones pull apart VERY EASILY and you will be tearing your hear out when you move the E17 and the adapter pulls out. Its hard to tell which adapters are the VERY snug fit ones from a picture


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> For this NO. Most cheap ones pull apart VERY EASILY and you will be tearing your hear out when you move the E17 and the adapter pulls out. Its hard to tell which adapters are the VERY snug fit ones from a picture


 
   
  Haha, allright. I'll go for mini-to-mini, thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Haha, allright. I'll go for mini-to-mini, thanks


 
WAIT STOP DON'T DO IT!!
   
mini to mini is for optical!! I didn't know you were talking about coaxil!!
   
You NEED A COAXIL ONE!!
   
I forgot to ask!!! >_,
   
http://www.amazon.com/RG59U-Coaxial-Digital-Audio-Cable/dp/B003NMVG64
   
 *Edit nevermind*
   
   
   
*Quote:*


> *Digital S/PDIF Output:
> High-bandwidth Coaxial/TOS-Link combo port supports 192KHz/24bit*


 
  its a combo output i guess :/


----------



## Kjeldsen

Yes it's a combo output. Thanks for the knee-jerk reaction tho! : ) Appreciate it.


----------



## satanigatan

I'm sure this has been answered a bunch of times over. But lately the E17 has been making this really loud crackling/distortion noise.
   
  When I unplug it out of the USB and plug it back in, it goes away. I'm wondering what could be causing it. I only charged it full ONE time (the first time I got it). Now I just plug it in to a computer/laptop and always leave it on (to charge it).
   
  Maybe it's not fully charged? Do you have to keep charging it?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> I'm sure this has been answered a bunch of times over. But lately the E17 has been making this really loud crackling/distortion noise.
> 
> When I unplug it out of the USB and plug it back in, it goes away. I'm wondering what could be causing it. I only charged it full ONE time (the first time I got it). Now I just plug it in to a computer/laptop and always leave it on (to charge it).
> 
> Maybe it's not fully charged? Do you have to keep charging it?


 
  is it like a clicking sound? Where it goes click-click-click-click?
   
  Or just white noise sound?
   
  Try with another computer, it may be software or software settings or the unit itself


----------



## satanigatan

It's more like a crackling noise. 
   
  Like when I go to my PC's playback devices and "test device" the little jingle comes out really distorted. It's really bizarre. It just started happening this morning. Something else I notice is when it does this - the screen flashes to lock, back and forth (Lock flashes over and over). Even though it's not on HOLD. 
   
  And I just checked, and my E17 is fully charged. So it's not a power issue. 
   
  I just find it strange, because if I pull the USB out, and put it back in, it goes away. But then randomly starts popping up when I'm not using it. Like I'll have my headphones and my E17 connected. And i'll hear the crackling. So I put my headphones on, and it's doing it. 

 One time I pulled the UBS out, and it was still making the noise. Which tells me it's definitely the E17. I'll keep you guys updated on it. Hopefully it goes away. But kind of worrying me. 
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> is it like a clicking sound? Where it goes click-click-click-click?
> 
> Or just white noise sound?
> 
> Try with another computer, it may be software or software settings or the unit itself


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> It's more like a crackling noise.
> 
> Like when I go to my PC's playback devices and "test device" the little jingle comes out really distorted. It's really bizarre. It just started happening this morning. Something else I notice is when it does this - the screen flashes to lock, back and forth (Lock flashes over and over). Even though it's not on HOLD.
> 
> ...


 
  Try different computers, but yes, it may be a faulty unit. But try to fully isolate things first.


----------



## satanigatan

Thanks for the reply.
   
  I will try different things to isolate it. Oddly enough, now I'm getting a small crackle when playing music (very faint. Every song has a fuzzyness to it). Ugh. I will try another computer though.

 EDIT: Pulled out the bottom connector and re-connected. Now that little sizzle/fuzz has gone away. *baffled*
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Try different computers, but yes, it may be a faulty unit. But try to fully isolate things first.


----------



## yokken

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> It's more like a crackling noise.
> 
> Like when I go to my PC's playback devices and "test device" the little jingle comes out really distorted. It's really bizarre. It just started happening this morning. Something else I notice is when it does this - the screen flashes to lock, back and forth (Lock flashes over and over). Even though it's not on HOLD.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your computer's USB might be faulty as well. My E17 always flashes LOCK once when I plug it in. Sounds like it keeps reinitializing the device. Definitely try it with another USB port, and if you have the ability, another computer.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I will try different things to isolate it. Oddly enough, now I'm getting a small crackle when playing music (very faint. Every song has a fuzzyness to it). Ugh. I will try another computer though.


 
  Try another USB cable too. Another person before had a similar problem with a somewhat faulty cable.
   
  Or it may be EMI or other interferance. Try a different enviroment even maybe as depending on your enviroment, electronic frequncies depending on countries may affect it and cause those sounds. And check your cable, if your cable be it USB or headphone cable is resting on a or near a electric cable it can also cause fuzzy humm problems or distortion
  So yeah, check another cable and look out for those two types of EMI


----------



## Kjeldsen

I'm having a small issue with the fit of the headphone-out of the E17 to the 8 inch jacks on my headphones. It's not a very snug fit, for some reason and the jack keeps popping out when i'm on the go. It takes very little touch to come loose. More precisely, it doesn't feel like the jack "clicks in" and stays put.
   
  Anyone else with this issue?


----------



## bowei006

One or two others have. Who did you purchase the E17 from? On the back of your E17, does it say E17 on the bottom or Alpen?

Its not 8inch. Its eigth inch or 1/8inch or 3.5mm haha.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> One or two others have. Who did you purchase the E17 from? On the back of your E17, does it say E17 on the bottom or Alpen?
> Its not 8inch. Its eigth inch or 1/8inch or 3.5mm haha.


 
   
  I got it from Amazon in the UK. It says "Alpen". Haha, confusing myself on the whole inch/mm issue. 8 inches is rather big! Trying to use what i hear people use the most, but if i had my way i would say "3.5mm"


----------



## Kjeldsen

I messed around with some more 3.5mm jacks from various devices and it seems that the 3.5mm fit is simply _*VERY, VERY*_ snug, and the reason why the jacks came half-way out again was because they weren't fitted properly. It feels like i have to use a bit of force, but in the end the 3.5mm connectors will "click in". Doesn't seem quite natural, but maybe it'll get better.


----------



## bowei006

So it fits snug but you have to "press" it first?

Hmm its up to you wht to do.

Im in the u.s so i should be saying the ridiculous standard of saying eigth inch but for some reason my vocab likes to use
3.5mm and quarter inch. I guess that we always say 3.5mm but always say quarter inch online :/

Well hope you get back to us on if a spdif cable will fix your problems.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> So it fits snug but you have to "press" it first?
> Hmm its up to you wht to do.
> Im in the u.s so i should be saying the ridiculous standard of saying eigth inch but for some reason my vocab likes to use
> 3.5mm and quarter inch. I guess that we always say 3.5mm but always say quarter inch online :/
> Well hope you get back to us on if a spdif cable will fix your problems.


 
   
  Correct. It fits snug, but i have to apply what seems like unnatural force to get it seated properly. It seems to have gotten a bit better (i've been "exercising" the headpone out for a bit), so maybe it's just growing pains.
   
  I'll definately update once i get the spdif cable. Should be in the mail tomorrow  Woo.
   
  I guess i could add some early impressions aswell. I'm still waiting on my HE-400's, but even now with a pair of Denon AH-D1100's, i'm pretty impressed about what i'm hearing on a portable setup using an ipod Nano 4th gen with a Line out dock. The E17 probably won't do that much for headphones of that caliber, but the difference is definately there. Vocals are more crisp and appear less clouded, bass is tighter and less muddled, soundstage more wide. I'm really looking forward to testing it with a pair of proper HP's


----------



## bowei006

I believe that many do use the he400 with the E17 but i also believe that some have said that those are really picky. Either way. For headphones of such caliber, having enough amping power is crucial.

Ill be getting my own next test desktop unit too in the comming month. So yay us


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I believe that many do use the he400 with the E17 but i also believe that some have said that those are really picky. Either way. For headphones of such caliber, having enough amping power is crucial.
> Ill be getting my own next test desktop unit too in the comming month. So yay us


 
   
  Yay us. I'm sure you'll let us all know when you do get it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And ...you're probably right. I went blindly with the E17 + HE-400 recommendation based on other peoples preferences/oppinions, so here's to hoping it suits me! We're hard pressed for things like CanJam overhere, so everything is based on a hunch.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> So it fits snug but you have to "press" it first?
> Hmm its up to you wht to do.
> Im in the u.s so i should be saying the ridiculous standard of saying eigth inch but for some reason my vocab likes to use
> 3.5mm and quarter inch. I guess that we always say 3.5mm but always say quarter inch online :/
> Well hope you get back to us on if a spdif cable will fix your problems.


 
   
  I received my mini-toslink optic cable today. Problem solved. Zero noise, even with gain. Seems like a pretty cheap solution if you've got S/PDIF output on your soundcard 
   
  That being said i'm really happy with the sound i'm getting from the Xonar Essence (DAC) / E17 (AMP) combo. Even using my mediocre headphones it's a vast improvement.


----------



## bowei006

With spdif. You cant exactly call it an essence and e17 combo anymore unless the escense is adding its own virtual surround data to spdifs lpcm stream being sent to the e17


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> With spdif. You cant exactly call it an essence and e17 combo anymore unless the escense is adding its own virtual surround data to spdifs lpcm stream being sent to the e17


 
   
  That was actually going to be my next question. I found this:
   
"But yes, the ST/STX will pass through 5.1 Dolby/DTS signals over SPDIF"
   
  However, most seem to think it's a waste to use spdif out with a card like the Xonar Essence since you circumvent the powered amp, and there's no way to tweak using opamps. So using spdif, i'm actually using the E17 DAC? Or am i using neither (Dolby/DTS affected data stream over optical)?
   
**edit due to new insight**


----------



## bowei006

You are using E17 dac and amp. But with options, youcan either output a "clean" pcm signal or one laced with surround sound QUALITIES.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You are using E17 dac and amp. But with options, youcan either output a "clean" pcm signal or one laced with surround sound QUALITIES.


 
   
  Allright. Guess i better figure out what the real problem is then  I've got some more cables and adapters to try out. Thanks.


----------



## ayres

hi all, looking to replace my aging dac/amp, and i'm considering the e17.
   
  in terms of amp section, can the e17's aux in handle 2.2volts?  i like the idea of at least having the option to connect my v-dac II to the e17's headphone amp.
   
  cheers


----------



## wrexgrunt

Quote: 





ayres said:


> hi all, looking to replace my aging dac/amp, and i'm considering the e17.
> 
> in terms of amp section, can the e17's aux in handle 2.2volts?  i like the idea of at least having the option to connect my v-dac II to the e17's headphone amp.
> 
> cheers


 
  IF the E17 shares the same amp design and architecture of the E7's, then the maximum input to AUX before it starts clipping is 1.2 Vrms (credit to NAG and his blog for the info about the E7).


----------



## bowei006

You may get distortion amplifying that much power. Fixed or variable out from dac or amp the 2.2 that is?

Do you want a portable do it all unit is the question.


----------



## ayres

thanks guys, yeah, the e17's amp would probably clip why trying to feed it the v-dac's analogue signal.
   
  i'm not sure about whether the v-dac's signal is fixed or variable.  sometimes, specs can be hard to come by, and i'm not the best at inferring such information given the often limited information by manufacturers.  
   
  as to whether or not i want a portable dac/amp as opposed to just an amp, i like the budget dac/amp combo.  i've used a headroom total bithead for years (clips also with the v-dac input).  i'm at the point where i'm interested to try something new.  i'll keep the v-dac for my integrated/speaker setup.  though, portable dac/amp aside, i'm keen to land a desktop amp to connect to my v-dac.
   
  so it wasn't really necessary that the e17 be able to handle the v-dac's voltage.  but the added compatibility would provide some fun experimenting.


----------



## hobbicon

Hey guys!
   
  Two questions:
   
  (I) Is the E17 powerful enough to supply a 600 Ω DT 880 ?
   
  (II) Can you replace the build in battery ?
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## bowei006

2) somewhat. There is a one year warranty if it does go dead but if it dies yes. Its somewhat replaceable but not user friendly. You need to open up e17 and solder a new battery on if you can even get a new battery


----------



## hobbicon

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 2) somewhat. There is a one year warranty if it does go dead but if it dies yes. Its somewhat replaceable but not user friendly. You need to open up e17 and solder a new battery on if you can even get a new battery


 
   
  OK, thank you. I´ll buy a Yulong U100. A non replaceable battery is a NO-GO.


----------



## unkle

Quote: 





hobbicon said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> ...


 

 (I) No, max 300Ω


----------



## wrexgrunt

Quote: 





ayres said:


> thanks guys, yeah, the e17's amp would probably clip why trying to feed it the v-dac's analogue signal.
> 
> i'm not sure about whether the v-dac's signal is fixed or variable.  sometimes, specs can be hard to come by, and i'm not the best at inferring such information given the often limited information by manufacturers.
> 
> ...


 
  OK, I've PM'ed feiao regarding the max Aux input voltage of the E17, and he said that 2Vrms would not be a problem for the E17.


----------



## bowei006

If you have the no how. It is a replaceable battery. After one year or two if mine fails ill call fiio and buy a oem battery off them and then solder it on easy if it was me.


@unkle
He asked power to supply. Not impendence. Using a headphone out of impendence range may lead to some not likeable sonic effects and will generally be that it doesnt have enough power. But without a personal user of those headphones and the e17. One should not assume. Although your guess from research and statistics on 600ohms and the E11 would generally say that it is not. Personal exp is still nice.


----------



## unkle

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> If you have the no how. It is a replaceable battery. After one year or two if mine fails ill call fiio and buy a oem battery off them and then solder it on easy if it was me.
> @unkle
> He asked power to supply. Not impendence. Using a headphone out of impendence range may lead to some not likeable sonic effects and will generally be that it doesnt have enough power. But without a personal user of those headphones and the e17. One should not assume. Although your guess from research and statistics on 600ohms and the E11 would generally say that it is not. Personal exp is still nice.


 

 @bowei006
  sorry for my mistake, but it is always true that the E17 can't efficiently drive a 600Ω headphone, has several difficulties with medium impedance headphones like the Senn HD650 (250Ω); he is not the first to ask this simple question, and I'm not the first to do this simple answer, dont need any direct experience.


----------



## bowei006

One should also note that VERY high. Very very high impendence ones are generally "easier" to drive.


----------



## uweinside

Hi Folks,

just bought the E17 with the E09K. Sounds great, but the firmware drives me crazy.

I'm feeding in an optical SPDIF signal from my Sonos ZP80 Player.

When docked, the E17 will allways switch to USB mode when the E09 is swiched on, no matter what input had been selected before. I understand that's by design, but nevertheless annoying. Please Fiio, make that behaviour configurable in the Firmware.

What's worse, after re-selecting the optical SPDIF, the E17 will often not lock onto the datastream again, so I have to remove the E17 from the dock, cycle through the Inputs again, re-dock it, then re-select the optical Input, and only then it will lock the signal and I will get sound. The problem happens 8 out of 10 times I switch on the E09.

Anyone else seen this behaviour?

Greetings from Munich,
Uwe


----------



## bowei006

"Welcome to head fi! Sorry about your wallet"
I do not have an aswer. Just a welcome speech.


----------



## uweinside

! It's always good to be welcome!


----------



## beaver316

Hey guys, im trying something different here (at least for me). Instead of connecting my headphones to my E17 im trying my old pc stereo speakers. It works by simply connecting the 3.5mm jack of the speakers to the E17's headphone input, but since the speakers have their own volume knob this means they have their own amp right? So in this case im double amping? Would it be best to get the Fiio line out dock and connect the speakers through that?


----------



## bowei006

Its not the headphone input. You mean headphone jack or headphone out.

But yes, you are. Double amping

It depends if you want to doube amp. If not , then get the L7


----------



## beaver316

Yeah that's what I meant. But why would I want to double amp?


----------



## bowei006

If the E17 has sonic qualities you like that you want to mix and try. Most units "double amp" or even more! DACs have their own output stage op amp that is usually replaceable and then most amps have two amps on them(not always)

And to eq, with the l7 set to the right lo bypass you can still use eq and volume on e17 as the pre amp will still be used.

Its highly up to you.


----------



## Prakhar

How good is the bass boost of the E17 in terms of quantity and quality?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





prakhar said:


> How good is the bass boost of the E17 in terms of quantity and quality?


 
  Up to 12dB bass boost
   
  The quality depends on your headphones as well. A headphone with poor bass responce generally will distort pretty heavily (generally) at 4dB whilst others will start to distort or get it at 6dB and etc etc. While ones that don't have bass but can EQ well may even get a 10dB bass boost with ok results.
   
  As for the quality of the EQ as it is built in and considering the price, I would say its above average. More fun than accurate really, ifyou are looking for accuracy, then this wouldn't be of high quality, but fun wise, its quite good.


----------



## Prakhar

I was pretty set on the Zo2 but now I am not so sure


----------



## prsut

Quote: 





prakhar said:


> I was pretty set on the Zo2 but now I am not so sure


 
  having both, go with e17...


----------



## Prakhar

prsut said:


> having both, go with e17...




Dont you have the original Zo?
What do you prefer about the E17?


----------



## nezhac

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Finally, another question for you guys. Using Ubuntu, I have managed to get the e17 to output at either 16bit/48k or 24 bit/96k. I cannot get it to select the bit rate based on the source. Not all my music is of the highest quality, thus, what do you think of listening to mp3 quality at 320kbs when the e17 is set to 24bit? My experience seems to vary for some reason as some mp3s sound fine whilst others sound less good than when at 16bit.
> 
> Anyways, thanks again.


 
   
  I have some questions regarding ubuntu, thought I'd ask you as well as any other ubuntu-using onlookers.
   
  I've been using deadbeef outputting over ALSA instead of pulseaudio. I think this is working the best, as the e17 displays 24 bit & 96k when I switch over to hi-res (24/192) files.
  Is that proof that output is digital and the decoding is happening in the e17's DAC and not onboard my computer?
   
  As a side note, it doesn't seem to switch back to displaying 48k/16bit on the e17 once I've played a 24/192 file. Is that what you mean by listening to mp3s at 24 bit kajendiran?
  If so, I guess that's okay then.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kajendiran said:


> Finally, another question for you guys. Using Ubuntu, I have managed to get the e17 to output at either 16bit/48k or 24 bit/96k. I cannot get it to select the bit rate based on the source. Not all my music is of the highest quality, thus, what do you think of listening to mp3 quality at 320kbs when the e17 is set to 24bit? My experience seems to vary for some reason as some mp3s sound fine whilst others sound less good than when at 16bit.
> 
> Anyways, thanks again.


 
  
  
   
  Did I miss this question?
   
  If you are using MP3's, they only allow 44.1 and 48KHz sampling at 16bit. No need to go any higher.
   
  There is already problems getting some units to display or send what info on Windows as there are so many hardware differences, getting it on Ubuntu correctly is even harder.
   


> I have some questions regarding ubuntu, thought I'd ask you as well as any other ubuntu-using onlookers.
> 
> I've been using deadbeef outputting over ALSA instead of pulseaudio. I think this is working the best, as the e17 displays 24 bit & 96k when I switch over to hi-res (24/192) files.
> Is that proof that output is digital and the decoding is happening in the e17's DAC and not onboard my computer?
> ...


 
  IT should be. I do not know what coding the E17 uses but the E17 should be sampling what is digitally comming in through its USB or S/PDIF inputs and thus give you information on its screen. Keep in mind that displaying 96KHz also includes 88.2KHz on the E17.
   
  I've had that happen sometimes to me back then as well even on Windows. 
   
  Honestly, this is largely on the E17 and how it shows the formats.


----------



## nezhac

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> IT should be. I do not know what coding the E17 uses but the E17 should be sampling what is digitally comming in through its USB or S/PDIF inputs and thus give you information on its screen. Keep in mind that displaying 96KHz also includes 88.2KHz on the E17.
> 
> I've had that happen sometimes to me back then as well even on Windows.
> 
> Honestly, this is largely on the E17 and how it shows the formats.


 
  Alright, I´ll assume it is receiving digital audio in that case.
  Is it possible for an analog signal to go through USB? I was messing around earlier, playing some 24/192 and it displayed 16/48 on the E17, I assumed the E17 was receiving analog signal, hence the wrong display info.


----------



## yokken

Quote: 





nezhac said:


> Alright, I´ll assume it is receiving digital audio in that case.
> Is it possible for an analog signal to go through USB? I was messing around earlier, playing some 24/192 and it displayed 16/48 on the E17, I assumed the E17 was receiving analog signal, hence the wrong display info.


 
   
  If you're on a Mac, you have to go into Audio MIDI Setup in Applications>Utilities to change it to 24/96. It automatically did that in Mountain Lion for me but in Snow Leopard I have to change it every now and then. Sometimes the settings stick, sometimes they don't.


----------



## bowei006

USB shouldnt be able to send analog data. And with computers your computer wont send itz


----------



## Trae

Is USB mode supposed to be limited to 6dB? I can access 12dB fine without doing the "god mode" trick. It is only limited to 6dB when I hook up my L7.


----------



## Tamnelia

I've owned an e17 since April, 2012. 
   
  It's been about 6 months, up to this point it was working fine; now I've got issue with the sound cutting in the left and right channels.
  I'm suspecting it is the headphone jack. And it appears the LED screen has burn in.
   
  Any suggestions as to what to do?


----------



## yokken

Quote: 





tamnelia said:


> I've owned an e17 since April, 2012.
> 
> It's been about 6 months, up to this point it was working fine; now I've got issue with the sound cutting in the left and right channels.
> I'm suspecting it is the headphone jack. And it appears the LED screen has burn in.
> ...


 
   
  Not much you can do about the burn-in. It's gotta still be in warranty right? You might be able to send it to Fiio for a replacement.


----------



## Trae

This may help you.


----------



## bowei006

1:Try that that is posted above but be careful not to do anything drastic

2:send it in for warranty

3:use the lock screen more. It has this function now because the E7 had burn in problem


----------



## yokken

I always use the screen lock. I've forgotten for an hour or so before but it's not a huge deal.


----------



## Tamnelia

Will attempting these repairs void the warranty?
  I'm concerned that a tape fix will only serve as a temporary remedy.
   
  Or is it better to just send it in anyway. Since it is still under warranty wouldn't it be best for them to sort it out? 
   
  In which case, has anyone had experience dealing with Fiio?
   
  Do they tend to just replace it? or does it take forever to get it back from repairs?


----------



## Trae

I have had it rigged up like that for over 5 months and it still works great. It's a permanent reversible fix if the problem you are having was the same as mine.


----------



## Tamnelia

Anyone know which email I'm suppose to email Fiio for in North America?
   
  I haven't gotten a response from there email listed on there website.
   
  Think I'll get it send in first before I think about attempting the tape fix. I don't wish to mess it up. I've got butterfingers when it comes to these sort of things.


----------



## bowei006

Its on their website. It was market something @fiio . Somethin ifbi recall correctly

It takes about 1 business day to get a reply usually as their time zone is different from here


----------



## Trae

I emailed MP4Nation and the FiiO marketing team when I had my problem, and they said that it would take about a month for them to fix my unit and return it. I said screw that and improvised


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





hobbicon said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry about the long delay, I don't check this thread very often...............
   
  I have an E17 and a pair of 600 Ohm DT880s.
  I'm listening to this combo right now.
  This really doesn't sound too bad!
  In a perfect world, the DT880s really deserve a better amp, but I can live with it!
  Strangely enough, the bass could be tighter.
   
  Quote: 





unkle said:


> @bowei006
> sorry for my mistake, but it is always true that the E17 can't efficiently drive a 600Ω headphone, has several difficulties with medium impedance headphones like the Senn HD650 (250Ω); he is not the first to ask this simple question, and I'm not the first to do this simple answer, dont need any direct experience.


 
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> One should also note that VERY high. Very very high impendence ones are generally "easier" to drive.


 
   
  High impedances are only easy to drive because they don't draw much current, which is great for an E17
  OTOH
  High impedance are hard to drive because they require more voltage, seems the E17 outputs just enough voltage for a 600 Ohm DT880, assuming you are not trying to blow your eardrums out.


----------



## Tamnelia

Awesome pics Trae.
  A Month? damn. You're really tempting me to preform the quick fix. I'll see what Fiio says, if it's really that bad I might just go ahead and attempt your fix. . I was trying to imagine your description.The pics are super helpful


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





uweinside said:


> Hi Folks,
> just bought the E17 with the E09K. Sounds great, but the firmware drives me crazy.
> I'm feeding in an optical SPDIF signal from my Sonos ZP80 Player.
> When docked, the E17 will allways switch to USB mode when the E09 is swiched on, no matter what input had been selected before. I understand that's by design, but nevertheless annoying. Please Fiio, make that behaviour configurable in the Firmware.
> ...


 
   
  Did anyone else have this problem?  Did you try contacting Fiio?  I have the e09k and e17 combo coming soon and I want to use SPDIF too.  So i'm wondering if anyone else has this problem or managed to fix it?


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote:  Originally Posted by *uweinside* 

 Hi Folks,
 just bought the E17 with the E09K. Sounds great, but the firmware drives me crazy.
 I'm feeding in an optical SPDIF signal from my Sonos ZP80 Player.
 When docked, the E17 will allways switch to USB mode when the E09 is swiched on, no matter what input had been selected before. I understand that's by design, but nevertheless annoying. Please Fiio, make that behaviour configurable in the Firmware.
 What's worse, after re-selecting the optical SPDIF, the E17 will often not lock onto the datastream again, so I have to remove the E17 from the dock, cycle through the Inputs again, re-dock it, then re-select the optical Input, and only then it will lock the signal and I will get sound. The problem happens 8 out of 10 times I switch on the E09.
 Anyone else seen this behaviour?
 Greetings from Munich,
 Uwe



   
   
  Quote:


joebobbilly said:


> Did anyone else have this problem?  Did you try contacting Fiio?  I have the e09k and e17 combo coming soon and I want to use SPDIF too.  So i'm wondering if anyone else has this problem or managed to fix it?


 
   
  Hi there fellow E17 users:

 I don't use my E17 docked to either the E9 or E09k, however I do use it with SPDIF/TOSLINK (aka optical), and often with the L7 Line Out Dock, and when using the L7 run into the "default to USB Mode" plus "must then switch back to OPT input mode" issue. I think I will contact FiiO to ask them if they can release a firmware patch to route around this incorrect mode detection.
   
  I know I'm not exactly in your particular use case (due to the dock being different), however since I AM using a DIFFERENT DOCK still, and encountering the same "mode detection" "errors" while in OPT(ical) mode [defaulting to USB (mode) when expected behavior is that the E17 should detect and remain in OPT(ical) mode] I thought you'd appreciate it If I piped up and put in my two cents and user experience with the near exact same issue.
   
  My "fix" / "workaround" is just to always remember to, upon using the E17 with the L7 LOD, upon powering up, or insertion of L7 LOD WHILE E17 is already powered up (either will cause the OPT mode to switch to USB mode) manually cycle the mode key toggle until OPT is selected again to register the OPT mode for SPDIF/TOSLINK optical datastream.
   
  My objection: With everything else that this device gets right by virture of brain dead, bang on, tool-like (rather than "utility chest 'gotta think about it to use it' mentality) simplicity and entry-level-user ease-of-use; this is the ONE GLARING boo boo. At least, in my eyes.


----------



## studentism

I'm running Mountain Lion on a Mac Pro. I have no problems getting 48/16 audio with the E17. When I open Audio MIDI Setup, I can switch the format to 96/16, causing the E17 to show it's locked in at 96/24. If I then try changing to 96/24 in Audio Midi setup, all sound to the device suddenly stops. The attempt logs a message to the kernel:

IOAudioStream<0xffffff8041399800>::setFormat(0x0xffffff817b8bbce8, 0x0xffffff8046163080) - audio engine unable to change format

If I switch back to 96/16, all sound/playback returns. Anybody else run into this? For what it's worth, I can do 96/24 out with all other devices on my system--no problem. Thanks a bunch, and sorry if this is a repeat of something covered earlier in the thread. (I tried searching, but I got back 32 pages of results and the first 6 didn't seem relevant.)


----------



## yokken

studentism said:


> I'm running Mountain Lion on a Mac Pro. I have no problems getting 48/16 audio with the E17. When I open Audio MIDI Setup, I can switch the format to 96/16, causing the E17 to show it's locked in at 96/24. If I then try changing to 96/24 in Audio Midi setup, all sound to the device suddenly stops. The attempt logs a message to the kernel:
> IOAudioStream<0xffffff8041399800>::setFormat(0x0xffffff817b8bbce8, 0x0xffffff8046163080) - audio engine unable to change format
> If I switch back to 96/16, all sound/playback returns. Anybody else run into this? For what it's worth, I can do 96/24 out with all other devices on my system--no problem. Thanks a bunch, and sorry if this is a repeat of something covered earlier in the thread. (I tried searching, but I got back 32 pages of results and the first 6 didn't seem relevant.)




Ruh roh! I didn't have that problem. Look into BitPerfect or Audirvana Plus... They might help, but not guaranteed.


----------



## PanamaHat

Has anyone used this with the Matrix m-stage? If so please drop your impression  much appreciated


----------



## unknwn

Mine E17 headphone jack started to fail. The sound on the right channel is often lost or i hear crackling until i try to move/turn/push headphone plug. What should i do? I am disappointed because i have E17 only a few months.


----------



## beaver316

I've been following this thread for a very long time and now that i think of it, i dont remember anyone posting anything about using the E17 as a source only. In other words plugging in an external amp using the fiio L7 for a line out. I'd like to know how the dac section compares to some dedicated dacs out there, like the Odac.


----------



## bowei006

@unknwn
As you have had it for a few months, local warranty is probably not gonna do. Are you able to diy?
There is a one year warranty (limited), but fiio has said that they will send jacks if you know how to diy solder
@beaver
You must have missed those posts then. Only problem is that most that I heard that did that ONLY had the E17 and no other dac


----------



## Chris J

panamahat said:


> Has anyone used this with the Matrix m-stage? If so please drop your impression  much appreciated




Yes, I have.
I'll have more time tonight to answer your question, but the short answer is, it sounds a bit dark thru the M Stage.
By no means does it sound terrible, it just doesn't sound great.
To put it another way, the M Stage sounds better with a better DAC.


----------



## Sorrodje

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I've been following this thread for a very long time and now that i think of it, i dont remember anyone posting anything about using the E17 as a source only. In other words plugging in an external amp using the fiio L7 for a line out. I'd like to know how the dac section compares to some dedicated dacs out there, like the Odac.


 
   
  I have this combo : E17 as dac only + L7 + Schiit Asgard but I can't only compare to my onboard soundcard ( not a bad one : HD Intel audio ) and I'm quite new in audiophile world


----------



## Trae

@unknwn
  Read this and look at my pics in the last page. That should hopefully fix your problem. It sounds like the problem you're having was the same as mine. 
   
  I have a Receiver that does 24/192 and I have an L7 for my E17. Both of the DAC's have the same sound quality, but my receiver has a better amp in it. Most of my music has a sample rate of 44.1/48k and a 16 bit rate, so I shouldn't expect anything fantastic. Amp-wise, my receiver has more control and doesn't sound as muddy as the E17.  
   
  Edit: I thought I would just add that the line out using the e17's dac only has an unchangeable 6dB gain going out of it. When you switch the lo switch so that the amp section of the e17 is included, you have to change the gain to 6db to get it to sound as loud.


----------



## unknwn

@Trae
  It was the same problem. Your solution worked very well. Thank you


----------



## studentism

yokken said:


> Ruh roh! I didn't have that problem. Look into BitPerfect or Audirvana Plus... They might help, but not guaranteed.




Thanks for the reply. Audirvana was able to lock 96/24, so I'm not sure what's going on with Audio-Midi Setup. I'll give it a shot on another Mac I have at home.


----------



## Siftah

I still don't seem to bother using my E17, if anyone would like to buy it (in perfect condition, barely used) please drop me a PM


----------



## beaver316

Selling my E17 too incase anyone's interested, check my sig. Moving on to bigger things!


----------



## Sushisamurai

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I have the same problem occasionallly where it won't turn on. The solution for that is to plug the USB cable in and when the red light comes on just turn it on and unplug.


 
  Hm... this was a old post, but I'm having issues with the E17 -> i'm guessing it's due to power issues / faulty battery.
   
  Preface: I've previously charged the E17 (once) via a USB charger that I have for another amp. Charged it to full. After a week's worth of use and barely any USB charging, the device powers down and dies. The problem arises in that I cannot get it to charge again and or turn on.
   
  a) I tried charging with the original charger I used (the first one), and I got a red flashing light. Google search tells me red flashing light means no charge.
  b) I swapped to an apple charger, got a super super dim light. Won't turn on with apple's USB wall plug while charging (which I thought was weird, as the device should turn on with a power supply no?). Left over night.
  c) Overnight charge, device powers on when it wants to (troubles turning it on, not sure why) with a power button press. When it turns on, showed me 2 battery bars from an over night charge. Brought it out on a studying day, 6 hours of use. Wasn't charging via USB on the computer even though "charging via USB" was turned to ON.
  d) Switched chargers to Nokia cellphone charger (swappable USB cable) to see if it'll charge better with a different charger. No light appears. Swapped to apple charger, still no light. Left overnight via Nokia cellphone charger (wall plug). I noticed the device heats up with the apple charger and nokia charger, therefore the device should be charging even without the charging red light.
  e) Today, the device wasn't turning on, at all. Tried plugging into my computer via USB, no charge. Other chargers weren't powering it on either, just generating heat as if it was charging. Tried the original charger I had used the first time. Flashing red light, after a few moments, the flashing red light turns red for charging. 30 minutes later, light dies out. Device turns on via the first charger, two battery bars (odd). Figuring it works and turns on spontaneously, I bring it out with me. Doesn't turn on. Computer USB doesn't turn it on either. No heat generated via USB cable.
   
  I'm thinking its a faulty battery. I have to take it apart and check. But question is,
   
  1) Any stats on the battery so far? I'm thinking I can find a replacement battery (i'm in china for the moment) as long as I have some stats on it.
  2) Aside from the reset button (tried and tried already), am I missing something in my diagnostics here?
  3) Is there a way to hard reset this thing aside from the reset button? I fear my last resort is to take it apart and Frankenstein it. 
   
  I will contact Fiio via phone call tomorrow to see if I can ship it out and get a replacement (its not their business hours atm). Sucks to have this break down 10 days in. I bought this in HK while I was there, and I'm not going back there for a while, so my only option is to go through Fiio. Anyone else have this issue?
   
  P.S. I honestly tried searching the forum and google for answers, but this seemed like the best place to go, and 50 pages of reading wasn't getting anywhere, so I thought I'd post my question, even with the high possibility of this being a repeat question. Thanks in advance


----------



## ClieOS

Seem like a battery issue. Definitely contact FiiO first and see if they can resolve the problem for you. At worst, you can get more info on what replacement battery to get (but you will need to know how to solder in order to replace the battery inside).


----------



## Sushisamurai

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Damn (gets ready a sodder kit). Thanks. I'll call and update as necessary (if I get battery specs) etc


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





panamahat said:


> Has anyone used this with the Matrix m-stage? If so please drop your impression  much appreciated


 
   
  I think the best answer I can give you is that my iBasso D12 sounds a bit better thru the M Stage than the E17.
   
  The iBasso just seems to add a bit more life, sounds a bit clearer, adds more space, better dynamics.
   
  probably not a fair comparison, the iBasso has an Aux out, with the E17 I have to use the headphone jack to drive the input of the Matrix.
  and the iBasso costs twice as much.
   
  Edit:  the iBasso seems to have a bit less grunge, transients seems to have a bit more snap to them.
  Bottom line is, the E17 is a fine little device for the $$$ but you can always get a better DAC for the Matrix in the future.


----------



## studentism

studentism said:


> Thanks for the reply. Audirvana was able to lock 96/24, so I'm not sure what's going on with Audio-Midi Setup. I'll give it a shot on another Mac I have at home.




Just an update: works perfectly fine on my Mac Pro at home. Guess it's time for a clean install at work.


----------



## GTRagnarok

About to get my E17 tomorrow. Been a long time IEM guy, but I recently got my first full sized headphones in the Sennheiser HD 558 and, man, I wish I'd done so a lot sooner. I find these so much better than even my beloved TF10. The wider soundstage of an open headphone is just something else. It's so addictive. However, it's clearly not being used to its full potential running straight from my laptop/phone. The bass is really lacking in comparison to the TF10. I tried hooking it up to my home receiver and it brings out the bass in a big way. I'm hoping the E17 can do the same.
   
  I haven't had these headphones for 3 weeks, and I'm already thinking of upgrading to see what headphones can really do. I'm looking at the HiFiMan HE-400 because I'm very curious to see what a planar magnetic headphone sounds like. From what I've gathered, the E17 drives it pretty decently but not fully. That's okay with me though.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





gtragnarok said:


> About to get my E17 tomorrow. Been a long time IEM guy, but I recently got my first full sized headphones in the Sennheiser HD 558 and, man, I wish I'd done so a lot sooner. I find these so much better than even my beloved TF10. The wider soundstage of an open headphone is just something else. It's so addictive. However, it's clearly not being used to its full potential running straight from my laptop/phone. The bass is really lacking in comparison to the TF10. I tried hooking it up to my home receiver and it brings out the bass in a big way. I'm hoping the E17 can do the same.
> 
> I haven't had these headphones for 3 weeks, and I'm already thinking of upgrading to see what headphones can really do. I'm looking at the HiFiMan HE-400 because I'm very curious to see what a planar magnetic headphone sounds like. From what I've gathered, the E17 drives it pretty decently but not fully. That's okay with me though.


 
   
  I like my E17 but I'm considering getting an E09K for it to really drive the big 'phones!


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gtragnarok said:


> About to get my E17 tomorrow. Been a long time IEM guy, but I recently got my first full sized headphones in the Sennheiser HD 558 and, man, I wish I'd done so a lot sooner. I find these so much better than even my beloved TF10. The wider soundstage of an open headphone is just something else. It's so addictive. However, it's clearly not being used to its full potential running straight from my laptop/phone. The bass is really lacking in comparison to the TF10. I tried hooking it up to my home receiver and it brings out the bass in a big way. I'm hoping the E17 can do the same.


 
  I find the E17 very good to put "in line" when a recording is light on the bass - Quite often it's set at +4 Bass and that is just about what I need. Great little piece of gear.


----------



## jasonb

I just ordered the E17 and an AKG Q701. Hopefully the E17 is enough on its own(I've read that is it), if not then i'll get the E09k as well.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I just ordered the E17 and an AKG Q701. Hopefully the E17 is enough on its own(I've read that is it), if not then i'll get the E09k as well.


 
   
  You can use them together, I've done it myself many times.
  It doesn't sound too bad.
  But the Q701 do respond very well to a better amp.
   
  Someday I want to get the E09K.
  Anyone out there tried the E17 + E09K + Q701?


----------



## Darkimmortal

The amount of glitches trying to use the E17 over USB is unbelievable. Some are machine-specific, such as when connected to the USB2 port on my laptop it sends the windows kernel into a mad spinlock necessitating a power cycle (USB3 port works fine).
   
  Some however seem to be the case regardless of what machine I use it with - at random my video player becomes unable to play audio without displaying a directx error unless my web browser is restarted, random crackles when watching Flash videos, along with major issues with the MAIKO WASAPI Winamp plugin (or generally anything that uses WASAPI), from jitter to ear-splittingly loud crackling.
   
  I find it hard to believe that a device that is amazingly good connected over S/PDIF to a Xonar DX can be so bad over USB. I guess there is more to Async USB than meets the eye, at least for Windows - the amount of things that synchronous usb screws up is crazy.
   
   
  (This is not a faulty device, lots of similar reports with wasapi issues etc throughout this thread)
   
   
   
*Edit:* Wow, otachan's winamp ASIO plugin combined with the proper ASIO driver for the E17 is an unbelievable combination. Not sure how or why but I've still got windows volume control and non-exclusivity too, along with damn near toslink quality.


----------



## ayres

Quote: 





ayres said:


> thanks guys, yeah, the e17's amp would probably clip why trying to feed it the v-dac's analogue signal.
> 
> i'm not sure about whether the v-dac's signal is fixed or variable.  sometimes, specs can be hard to come by, and i'm not the best at inferring such information given the often limited information by manufacturers.
> 
> ...


 
   
  hi all, so a little update...
   
  i purchased an e17... i've really enjoyed it!  acting as a dac/amp. connected to my macbook pro and powering my grado 225i, i'm really loving the music!  i haven't purchased any new gear in a while, and it is a reminder of the fun of revisiting one's music library.
   
  concerning my previous posts, i also have been bypassing the dac section, connecting my mf's v-dac ii rca output to the e17's aux in, and so far i have not been detecting any noticeable distortion.  at least in terms of what i was experiencing when connecting the v-dac to a headroom total bithead's amp section, i've heard nothing of the sort.
   
  might distortion start creeping in as the e17's battery drains?  as i recall, the bithead didn't clip with fresh batteries installed, but after, maybe, 2-3 hours, the clipping indicator stayed lit the entire time, and the sound was a mess.
   
  (btw, in my semi-objective, unquantified whatever, whatever, the e17's dac has nothing on the v-dac... but hey, i still love the little thing!)


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





ike60 said:


> I think it's been covered much earlier in this thread or perhaps in another thread, but I though I'd post it anyhow.
> 
> Below is the kludge I've worked up to get digital audio out of my iPad and into my E17.  Luckily, I'm not in the habit of trying to lug this around with me, but it's nice to know I can if I want to.
> 
> ...


 
  thank you for this post


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> A few users have used the E17 (as a DAC) with the LittleDot,but they are no longer here.
> 
> 
> You have to buy a few things first..not expensive so don't worry.
> ...


 
  thank you for this post.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





angular mo said:


> thank you for this post.


 
  You're Welcome and thank you for using the search function
   
  Quote: 





darkimmortal said:


> The amount of glitches trying to use the E17 over USB is unbelievable. Some are machine-specific, such as when connected to the USB2 port on my laptop it sends the windows kernel into a mad spinlock necessitating a power cycle (USB3 port works fine).
> 
> Some however seem to be the case regardless of what machine I use it with - at random my video player becomes unable to play audio without displaying a directx error unless my web browser is restarted, random crackles when watching Flash videos, along with major issues with the MAIKO WASAPI Winamp plugin (or generally anything that uses WASAPI), from jitter to ear-splittingly loud crackling.
> 
> ...


 
  You must at least at some point must have wondered why the majority of the people don't all have the same problems right? Like any product, there are some errors or happenings that defy or are completely different from what others use.
   
  It may be a computer southbridge driver issue, specific hardware and drivers on the computer interferring, E17's own USB Class 1 self contained driver error, E17 overall defective unit, software problems on your computer(program or OS due to some update or happening).


----------



## Brault

darkimmortal said:


> The amount of glitches trying to use the E17 over USB is unbelievable. Some are machine-specific, such as when connected to the USB2 port on my laptop it sends the windows kernel into a mad spinlock necessitating a power cycle (USB3 port works fine).
> 
> Some however seem to be the case regardless of what machine I use it with - at random my video player becomes unable to play audio without displaying a directx error unless my web browser is restarted, random crackles when watching Flash videos, along with major issues with the MAIKO WASAPI Winamp plugin (or generally anything that uses WASAPI), from jitter to ear-splittingly loud crackling.
> 
> ...


Have you tried a powered USB hub with your E17? Made a huge difference on my aging (early 2008) MacBook Pro.


----------



## Brault

chris j said:


> You can use them together, I've done it myself many times.
> It doesn't sound too bad.
> But the Q701 do respond very well to a better amp.
> 
> ...



I'm using this combo with a MacBook Pro (early 2008) and Audivarna Plus. The E09K really wakes up the Q701's, esp. the bass. But I don't have a lot of experience with alternate amplifiers...


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





brault said:


> I'm using this combo with a MacBook Pro (early 2008) and Audivarna Plus. The E09K really wakes up the Q701's, esp. the bass. But I don't have a lot of experience with alternate amplifiers...


 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## gibosi

I am thinking seriously about getting the E17.  I swapped out the motherboard in my PC (Windows XP) and as a result I no longer have a headphone jack, so this product would solve that problem. Moreover, I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus with a pogo pin desktop dock.  Apparently, this dock will output optical digital audio:
   
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1851321
   
  If so, I will also be able to bypass the phone's DAC and take advantage of the E17's DAC.
   
  What I am wondering...  I have a set of amplified computer speakers hooked up to the computer's sound card.  When I connect the E17 via USB, does this mean that that sound card will no longer output audio to these speakers?  Or is there a way to connect these speakers to the E17 permanently and still be able to plug in my headphones occasionally, as well as connect it to the phone's dock? 
   
  Thanks


----------



## Chris J

gibosi said:


> I am thinking seriously about getting the E17.  I swapped out the motherboard in my PC (Windows XP) and as a result I no longer have a headphone jack, so this product would solve that problem. Moreover, I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus with a pogo pin desktop dock.  Apparently, this dock will output optical digital audio:
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1851321
> 
> ...




Just a thought......check out the mighty FiiO E09K.
It may be what you are looking for.


----------



## cwall64

So is the E09K and E17 a good combination?  Currently I am using a Audioengine D1 with my MacBook Pro (so it meets my portable needs), but I was looking to get another one so that I don't have to pull the D1 out of my bag to use at home with my Mac Pro.  I am using with Sennheiser HD600 & HD650.


----------



## Chris J

cwall64 said:


> So is the E09K and E17 a good combination?  Currently I am using a Audioengine D1 with my MacBook Pro (so it meets my portable needs), but I was looking to get another one so that I don't have to pull the D1 out of my bag to use at home with my Mac Pro.  I am using with Sennheiser HD600 & HD650.




I've never heard the E09K, it just sounds like a good solution to your dilemma!
line out for your speakers, headphone jack, plus you can still use the E17 as a portable DAC/amp.


----------



## autoexec

Just wondering, what will happen if you plug a headphone straight to the L7's line out? Or any line-out of any device? I would be guessing that's a pretty powerful signal and can blast your headphones off? Is it dangerous that you should really be careful not doing it in case you're drunk playing with the audio gears you have? Forgive my ignorance. Thanks!


----------



## Trae

Line out isn't that loud. It's just a 6dB gain. You an get USB, Aux, and Opt to have the same loudness by adjusting the gain to 6dB in the menu.


----------



## jasonb

Just got my E17 and Q701. Ive only listened to the combo for about 15 minutes so far, but so far i like it. The E17 is plenty powerful, with the 12db gain using my iPhone 4 LOD out, im only listening at the 24-30 mark on the volume control. Im using a 2db bass boost, which is nice to have. I could stand the Q701 with no eq at all, but the 2db boost adds a nice touch of warmth to the sound.
   
  One question, did everybodys E17 arrive with a completely dead battery? Mine was completely dead which has me worried. Lithium batteries should never be stored completely discharged, optimaly you want to store lithium batteries at about 70%.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Just got my E17 and Q701. Ive only listened to the combo for about 15 minutes so far, but so far i like it. The E17 is plenty powerful, with the 12db gain using my iPhone 4 LOD out, im only listening at the 24-30 mark on the volume control. Im using a 2db bass boost, which is nice to have. I could stand the Q701 with no eq at all, but the 2db boost adds a nice touch of warmth to the sound.
> 
> One question, did everybodys E17 arrive with a completely dead battery? Mine was completely dead which has me worried. Lithium batteries should never be stored completely discharged, optimaly you want to store lithium batteries at about 70%.


 
  If I recall correctly, FiiO ships out their units charged or at least mostly charged. The E17 has been out for almost a year. On the back of your E17 does it say "E17" or "Alpen"? If it says E17, it is most likely form a shipment that came in almost a year ago. If it says ALPEN, well it could be around the same time frame up to today. The first two months the E17 had the E17 sign on the back, with the Third and Fourth batches as Micca Store called them I BELIEVE (its been a while), the name on the back was silkscreened and changed to "ALPEN". So yeah.
   
  My E17 battery guide does say that you shouldn't discharge it. However, battery experts do say that people that use their E17 frequently should discharge it fully and recharge it about once a month and those in storage should do it once every half year. This has been shown to actually be good for a Li-ion battery. But yes, full discharge of li-ion frequently is not recommended at all.


----------



## jasonb

It does say ALPEN on the back. I really dont like the fact that it came dead. Maybe i should contact Fiio or the seller about it.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> It does say ALPEN on the back. I really dont like the fact that it came dead. Maybe i should contact Fiio or the seller about it.


 
  Because now there is a possibly defective unit that has a battery reduction that isn't possible to calculate or ever be able to tell as the initial battery and its life was not on hand?
   
  Unless your unit is acting up in any way shape or form in that it will not take a charge, or turns off and on, wont turn on easy, or the sound has some problems, I do not believe there is any problem to contact FiiO or the seller about. If it is only just your chagrin at the E17 unit comming to you with no charge on it, as in, that being the only problem you have with it, I can't say that you will be able to get a return or what not.


----------



## jasonb

Yea, but like i said, a lithium battery sitting with absolutely zero charge is not good. Ill at least try it for a while, but if my battery seems to drain extremely fast then i will be contacting somebody. I would just hate to have a unit with a bad battery.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Yea, but like i said, a lithium battery sitting with absolutely zero charge is not good. Ill at least try it for a while, but if my battery seems to drain extremely fast then i will be contacting somebody. I would just hate to have a unit with a bad battery.


 
  I see your point. The majority of cases, it should not be a problem, but if the unit does exhibit problems, well then let us know.


----------



## jasonb

Another question, How long should it take to charge a completely drained E17 with a 1000ma charger?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Another question, How long should it take to charge a completely drained E17 with a 1000ma charger?


 
  That is about what most iPhone or phone chargers output. Charge time should be about 5 hours if you are not using it. Charging with USB directly on most laptops can be as much as 8-9 hours with periodic turn ons and offs.


----------



## jasonb

Im charging it with an iPhone charger, but i have been using it for about half the time its been charging. Its been charging for almost 5 hours, ive used it for probably about 2 hours of that. Good to know, it should be done soon i guess. 
   
  This setup sounds real good. Seems like a great little amp. Anybody that says it cant drive a Q701 properly is crazy.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That is about what most iPhone or phone chargers output. Charge time should be about 5 hours if you are not using it. Charging with USB directly on most laptops can be as much as 8-9 hours with periodic turn ons and offs.


 
   
   
  the charge time should be about 3 hours, we are upgrading our website, and I ask our term to release more specification on our website, includes the frequency response and THD test result by AP. the new specification will add some useful information includes
   
  1, output impedance,
   
  2, battery volume, charge time, battery life 
   
  3, maximum input votage
   
  4, bass/treble boost value.
   
  5, crosstalk
   
  6, Gain
   
  of course, some spec is just for reference like the battery life because it depend on the source, loader.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> It does say ALPEN on the back. I really dont like the fact that it came dead. Maybe i should contact Fiio or the seller about it.


 
   
  Sorry, hard to promise the new unit came with fully charge, because some agents ship it by sea so it take quite long time on the sea. also products designed for audiophile usually consume more power than consumer electronics products.


----------



## bowei006

I was basing this what I remember I got with my charger. Sorry. When i initially charged it, it was with my Macbook pro while using it. That took 8 hours for me. And others that used lightweight laptop while using with no battery left have said same numbers.

Yep, every person is different and what you use. I back when I had it got 5 on average for full charge with iphone adapter.


----------



## jasonb

Is the light around the power button going to change from purple to blue when its done charging, or will it always be purple when plugged in, even after its fuly charged? 
   
  The reason i ask is because when i unplug it, the battery indicator shows full, but when plugged in the light is still purple.


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I've never heard the E09K, it just sounds like a good solution to your dilemma!
> line out for your speakers, headphone jack, plus you can still use the E17 as a portable DAC/amp.


 
   
  Thanks for you reply.  So I gather that you do not believe that the E17 can handle all these functions at the same time, and I should consider purchasing a head phone amp as well, something like the E09K, to provide me with more outputs.   Oh well....  I guess I will have to save up a little more money....


----------



## bowei006

The answer is of course in the user manual provided with every E17. but for reference. Blue is on. Red is charging while off. Purple is charging while on, as its a mix of colors. After it charges, the light will disappear.


----------



## jasonb

After a night and a morning with my new E17 and AKG Q701, I am happy to report that this combination sounds great. Some people had me worried that a smallish portable amp would not suffice for the Q701, but there is plenty of power and headroom here. These to me, arent a headphone that was designed to be listened to at extreme volume anyway. The Q701 will get tiring at high volumes, so why use an amp that is waaay overkill in the power department. With my iPhone 4 as the source using a Fiio L3 LOD with the E17 on high gain (12db) I am still under 30 out of 60 on the volume control 99% of the time. I am actually listening at an average of about 25 (out of 60) on the volume control. For example 25 of 60 while listening to a song called Divinity by a band called Threshold is playing at about 82-85db measured with a Radio Shack spl meter. Low to mid 80's is usually where i like to listen. It may be a tad loud, but still safe for long periods. Some may say I am still not hearing these to their full potential, but who is to say what their full potential may be. Maybe my amp is only driving them to 95% of their full potential, but I am quite impressed with what I am hearing and can definitely say that an E17 is plenty for these. 
  
 At the price of this setup, it seems like a steal. I got the Q701 for $240, and the E17 for $140, both brand new in sealed packages. So for $380 it's a great setup. Of course my source, the 32 gb iPhone 4 costs a bit of money too, but I already had that. I also have a laptop that I can use with this setup, but so far I have only plugged the E17 into my iPhone. I will try it with my laptop eventually. 
  
 Also, I have not noticed any EMI from my CDMA iPhone messing with the E17 yet, and I Have it sitting right next to it, less than an inch away. Meanwhile the lesser E5 would be just about unusable with my iPhone without putting it in airplane mode. 
  
 So far, very very pleased!


----------



## beaver316

The sound will only get better from your laptop. The DAC in the E17 performs really well.


----------



## jasonb

There is nothing wrong with the DAC in the iPhone 4 though. The iPhone 4 can be considered an audiophile player. 
  Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> The sound will only get better from your laptop. The DAC in the E17 performs really well.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> There is nothing wrong with the DAC in the iPhone 4 though. The iPhone 4 can be considered an audiophile player.


 
   
  True, but i would have thought the dac in the E17 performs better considering it's a dedicated device. This is just me guessing though, don't take my word for it.


----------



## jasonb

I'm using it as a DAC with my laptop right now, it definitely doesn't sound noticeably worse. I may have to do some A/B testing. I was just about to say it's bassier as a DAC, but I just discovered that I had an EQ enabled in itunes. Sounds just as flat now as it does from my iPhone.
  Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> True, but i would have thought the dac in the E17 performs better considering it's a dedicated device. This is just me guessing though, don't take my word for it.


----------



## Chris J

gibosi said:


> Thanks for you reply.  So I gather that you do not believe that the E17 can handle all these functions at the same time, and I should consider purchasing a head phone amp as well, something like the E09K, to provide me with more outputs.   Oh well....  I guess I will have to save up a little more money....




I think you are trying to drive a pair of powered speakers with the E17?
The E09K has a pre amp out jack for driving power amps and powered speakers.
The E17 + E09K would work if you wanted to use the DAC but needed a line out to drive powered speakers.
You would still have a USB input and optical input plus you could still listen to headphones with that step up.

The big advantage is you would not be using the headphone amp in the E17 to drive powered speakers, plus you would not be plugging and unplugging stuff all the time if you still wanted to use the E17 for portable use: the E17 would just drop into the E09K dock.
You would have to look at the E09K on the FiiO website to see if that is what you are looking for.


----------



## StratocasterMan

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I think you are trying to drive a pair of powered speakers with the E17?
> The E09K has a pre amp out jack for driving power amps and powered speakers.
> The E17 + E09K would work if you wanted to use the DAC but needed a line out to drive powered speakers.
> You would still have a USB input and optical input plus you could still listen to headphones with that step up.
> ...


 
   
  Not sure if I'm helping here, but the E17 will function as both a DAC / headphone amp, and _also_ function as a DAC only and provide a line-out signal for speakers, all at the same time. For this all that is needed is the ($9.46) FiiO L7 line-out dock for the E17. The E09K isn't necessary.
   
  I have my E17 serving as a DAC / headphone amp, and also serving as a DAC only and providing a line-out signal to my desktop 2.1 speaker rig using the FiiO L7 line-out dock.
   
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L7-Line-Dock-Cable/dp/B004QVNS0S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351965158&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+l7


----------



## Chris J

stratocasterman said:


> Not sure if I'm helping here, but the E17 will function as both a DAC / headphone amp, and _also_ function as a DAC only and provide a line-out signal for speakers, all at the same time. For this all that is needed is the ($9.46) FiiO L7 line-out dock for the E17. The E09K isn't necessary.
> 
> I have my E17 serving as a DAC / headphone amp, and also serving as a DAC only and providing a line-out signal to my desktop 2.1 speaker rig using the FiiO L7 line-out dock.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L7-Line-Dock-Cable/dp/B004QVNS0S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351965158&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+l7




$9.46 !

What can I say?


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





stratocasterman said:


> Not sure if I'm helping here, but the E17 will function as both a DAC / headphone amp, and _also_ function as a DAC only and provide a line-out signal for speakers, all at the same time. For this all that is needed is the ($9.46) FiiO L7 line-out dock for the E17. The E09K isn't necessary.
> 
> I have my E17 serving as a DAC / headphone amp, and also serving as a DAC only and providing a line-out signal to my desktop 2.1 speaker rig using the FiiO L7 line-out dock.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L7-Line-Dock-Cable/dp/B004QVNS0S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351965158&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+l7


 
   
  This is very good news indeed!   My wallet is feeling very relieved that I might not have to purchase an E09K in addition to the E17.  And do you think it will be possible to have a digital input connected at the same time as well?  I hope I can then simply select between USB input and digital input on the E17? Thanks!


----------



## StratocasterMan

Quote: 





gibosi said:


> This is very good news indeed!   My wallet is feeling very relieved that I might not have to purchase an E09K in addition to the E17.  And do you think it will be possible to have a digital input connected at the same time as well?  I hope I can then simply select between USB input and digital input on the E17? Thanks!


 
   
  Yup! The E17 has an input button and you can just select between "USB," "OPT," and "COX" using that button.


----------



## prsut

Quote: 





stratocasterman said:


> Yup! The E17 has an input button and you can just select between "USB," "OPT," and "COX" using that button.


 
  And "AUX" too...


----------



## gibosi

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *prsut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yup! The E17 has an input button and you can just select between "USB," "OPT," and "COX" using that button.
> 
> And "AUX" too...


 
   
  This is great news!  Now that I know this, I am definitely going to buy the E17 for Xmas!  A present to myself! ahaha... Thanks again!


----------



## jasonb

Do it! The E17 is awesome!


----------



## StratocasterMan

Quote: 





prsut said:


> And "AUX" too...


 
   
  "AUX" becomes unavailable in the menu once the E17 is docked to the L7. It's natural, because the L7 blocks the auxiliary input physically. You can't use AUX when the E17 is docked to the L7. It doesn't matter, because now you've got USB, OPT, or COX feeding a digital signal to the E17. If you wanted to feed it an analog signal, you wouldn't be attaching it to a digital source in the first place.


----------



## StratocasterMan

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Do it! The E17 is awesome!


 
   
  +1000


----------



## boomerthom

The only sound format when using my E17 as a DAC for my laptop is 16 bit/32000 Hz.  Is this normal?  In any other setting, then sound comes out crackling and heavily distorted.  16 bit/44100 Hz was the default setting so I had to turn it down.  Not sure what this even does (something about shared mode?) but I figured I'd ask.  
   
  thx


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> The only sound format when using my E17 as a DAC for my laptop is 16 bit/32000 Hz.  Is this normal?  In any other setting, then sound comes out crackling and heavily distorted.  16 bit/44100 Hz was the default setting so I had to turn it down.  Not sure what this even does (something about shared mode?) but I figured I'd ask.
> 
> thx


 
  32000 Hz? Do you have Mac or windows? Where do you see 32000 Hz? In the Windows Sound preferences/settings menu or Mac audio options one? Are you using AUX/OPT/COAX/or USB? (OPT and COAX are SPDIF) 
  What music player are you using?
   
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"


----------



## boomerthom

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 32000 Hz? Do you have Mac or windows? Where do you see 32000 Hz? In the Windows Sound preferences/settings menu or Mac audio options one? Are you using AUX/OPT/COAX/or USB? (OPT and COAX are SPDIF)
> What music player are you using?
> 
> "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your Wallet!"


 
  Windows.  Advanced menu when I click on the E17 in my list of devices.  USB.  No music player, just general sound (test audio from Advanced menu, Youtube, twitch.tv stream).


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> Windows.  Advanced menu when I click on the E17 in my list of devices.  USB.  No music player, just general sound (test audio from Advanced menu, Youtube, twitch.tv stream).


 

 Go to start menu
 Type in "device manager"
 Find the E17. 
 Right click and choose to uninstall. Click yes or whatever
 Unplug the E17 from computer. 
 Replug
 You will see it is reinstalling drivers
 Go to your bottom start bar. See the volume icon?
 Right click and go to "playback devices"
 See the E17 USB blah blah? Right click "Properties" 
 Make sure Use This Device enable is on
 Check all the supported formats from 44.1 to 96KHz, nothing over or below, don't check encoded formats any of them
 make sure your levels are at 100
 Disable ALL ENHANCEMENTS (do IT) no ENHANCEMENTS
 In Default Format, choose 2 channel, 16 bit, 44100
 Check both Exclusive Mode's if they aren't checked.
 Open iTunes and run audio, NOT YOUTUBE.. Play a song for pete's sake. Some videos on youtube have crackly audio already.
   
  Now sing the panda song. Panda Panda Panda, you are the best, panda panda, you shall get a check, panda panda panda,


----------



## boomerthom

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


>





> *snip*


 
   
  Damn, that's what I call tech support.  Thanks!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> Damn, that's what I call tech support.  Thanks!


 

   
   
  You sing the Panda song? Thats also part of the instructions. My Panda instincts tell me that you haven't yet.
   
  Post back if something goes awry or if the steps don't work.


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Go to start menu
> Type in "device manager"
> Find the E17.
> Right click and choose to uninstall. Click yes or whatever
> ...


 
  thank you for this post.


----------



## bowei006

If 44100 works. Try going up to 96000 Hz and 24 bit in the menu


----------



## Chris J

The Panda Song?

Do I even want to ask?​


----------



## boomerthom

Very odd.  After following the above steps to troubleshoot my E17, it worked fine for the rest of the night.  Before I went to bed, I turned my E17 off and put my laptop on sleep mode.  
   
  So I wake up today and do some internet browsing on my laptop.  After about an hour, I decide to listen to some music through iTunes.  I turn on my E17 and the sound is crackling and distorted just like it was yesterday, only today the settings are correct.  Setting the default format to 16/32 still fixes it though.  Reinstalling the driver didn't help.
   
  Settings:
  Encoded formats - none
  Supported sample rates - 44.1, 96.0
  Levels - all 100
  Enhancements - none (none even listen in settings)
  Default format - 24/44.1
  Exclusive mode - both enabled
   
  What the heck.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> Very odd.  After following the above steps to troubleshoot my E17, it worked fine for the rest of the night.  Before I went to bed, I turned my E17 off and put my laptop on sleep mode.
> 
> So I wake up today and do some internet browsing on my laptop.  After about an hour, I decide to listen to some music through iTunes.  I turn on my E17 and the sound is crackling and distorted just like it was yesterday, only today the settings are correct.
> 
> ...


 
  16/44.1KHz please. 24 bit may cause a problem depending on file, computer, software, hardware etc.
   
  Try the E17 on another computer please. 
   
  Can you use Foobar with WASAPI to play audio?


----------



## boomerthom

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 16/44.1KHz please. 24 bit may cause a problem depending on file, computer, software, hardware etc.
> 
> Try the E17 on another computer please.
> 
> Can you use Foobar with WASAPI to play audio?


 
  I typo'd.  Default format was 16/44.1.  No other computer to test on.  Testing Foobar now.


----------



## boomerthom

This is screwing with my head.  I downloaded Foobar and successfully played a handful of songs with no distortion on 16/44.1.  I go back to my browser and accidentally hit play on a Youtube video I had open.  The sound was no longer distorted.  The only settings changed during this process was the default format, which I switched from 16/44.1 to 16/32 to test general sound, and back to 16/44.1 to test Foobar.  Youtube even works on 32/96 now.  This is madness.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> This is screwing with my head.  I downloaded Foobar and successfully played a handful of songs with no distortion on 16/44.1.  I go back to my browser and accidentally hit play on a Youtube video I had open.  The sound was no longer distorted.  The only settings changed during this process was the default format, which I switched from 16/44.1 to 16/32 to test general sound, and back to 16/44.1 to test Foobar.  Youtube even works on 32/96 now.  This is madness.


 
  Windows Sound does not allow for 32KHz
   
  There is no support for 32 bit audio nor is that a popular format if it is even a format at all.
   
  Getting the right numbers makes it easier on you, me, and anyone reading this. 
   
  It is strange sometimes. Try on different computers, and see if it happens tomorrow. For the time being, begin the Panda song again. I am 100% sure that it screwed up because you didn't sing the song panda. I know these things. Now come with me:
  "Panda PAnda, you are the best, Panda PAnda, I'll write a check, Panda Panda Panda"


----------



## boomerthom

OK, I think I found the problem but have no clue how to resolve it.
   
  Strange as it sounds, the laptop coming out of sleep mode seems to be the problem.  Everything was working fine on 16/44.1 so I decided to reproduce the circumstances that caused my amp to freak out.  Put my computer in sleep mode, woke it up, and opened a song in Foobar.  Result was distortion and crackling in 16/44.1.  Setting the format to 16/32 still resolves the problem.  As the problem in 16/44.1 seems to have resolved itself last time, I'm thinking either the computer or the amp needs a "warm up" period of sorts to accurately produce sound at any format higher than 16/32.  16/32 sounds alright but I have no idea what to do about this.
   
  edit - doesn't seem to be time-sensitive.  16/44.1 isn't working for me now.  Will test more.
   
  edit 2 - Found solution.  
   
  1.  Turn E17 on
  2.  Set default format to 16/44.1
  3.  Restart computer, keeping E17 turned on through whole process
  4.  Sound is clear upon restart
   
  Still makes little sense to me but at least the problem is fixed.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> OK, I think I found the problem but have no clue how to resolve it.
> 
> Strange as it sounds, the laptop coming out of sleep mode seems to be the problem.  Everything was working fine on 16/44.1 so I decided to reproduce the circumstances that caused my amp to freak out.  Put my computer in sleep mode, woke it up, and opened a song in Foobar.  Result was distortion and crackling in 16/44.1.  Setting the format to 16/32 still resolves the problem.  As the problem in 16/44.1 seems to have resolved itself last time, I'm thinking either the computer or the amp needs a "warm up" period of sorts to accurately produce sound at any format higher than 16/32.  16/32 sounds alright but I have no idea what to do about this.
> 
> ...


 
  16/32? Where are you getting an 32KHz option?


----------



## boomerthom

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 16/32? Where are you getting an 32KHz option?


 
  On Windows: Playback devices -> E17 -> Advanced -> Default format drop-down menu.  16/32 is the highest option.


----------



## jasonb

go to: Playback devices -> E17 ->  Supported formats, and then check the boxes for 44.1, 48, and 96 as well. then go back to advanced and select 16/48.
   
  I dont know what most are using, but I've been using 16/48 since I only have 256kbps AAC and 320 kbps MP3 files. I dont have any higher res files.
  Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> On Windows: Playback devices -> E17 -> Advanced -> Default format drop-down menu.  16/32 is the highest option.


----------



## boomerthom

I give up.  Restarted my computer again to test and the distortion is back on everything except 16/32.  There's no consistency to this.  Leaving it on 16/32.
   
  Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jasonb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> go to: Playback devices -> E17 ->  Supported formats, and then check the boxes for 44.1, 48, and 96 as well. then go back to advanced and select 16/48.
> 
> I dont know what most are using, but I've been using 16/48 since I only have 256kbps AAC and 320 kbps MP3 files. I dont have any higher res files.


 
  Still distorted.


----------



## jasonb

what is your computer, and which version of windows? tried more than one usb port?
  Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> Still distorted.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





boomerthom said:


> Still distorted.


 
  Can you take a screen shot of the 32KHz option?


----------



## Atlantis69

Here's what Boomerthom is talking about in Win7.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





atlantis69 said:


> Here's what Boomerthom is talking about in Win7.


 
  Try to stay on 44.1 and not lower.


----------



## jasonb

whats better? 6db gain with a higher volume vs 12db gain with a lower volume... discuss.
   
  Edit: I just switched from 12db gain with an average volume of 20-25, to the 6db gain with an average volume of 25-30, so far the only difference I hear is that the volume steps are smaller which is nice. Sometimes on the high gain just one volume step to the next would be to big of a change. Other than that the sound seems the same once level matched. 
   
  Anybody have anything to add to this subject?


----------



## Chris J

I can't hear any difference, so I leave gain at 0 dB and only increase the gain if I really need to, i.e. a weak source.


----------



## LocutusH

Hello all,
   
  i just registered, because i have a problem, and dint find a solution with just searching here...
   
  I recently bought an E17, and i am using it over the optical out of my xonar dx, and a HD598 headphone.
   
  The problem is, that my long time bsod free computer started to show some blue screens ocassionally.
   
  The first came, when the E17 batterys ran out the first time, i turned usb charge on while it was connected via usb to the computer (only for charging, since the audio goes trough the optical), and there it was, a bsod. The dump analysis said usbhub.sys, and irql not less or equal.
  The second one was the same, while watching a movie in kmplayer, the battery was running out, and i connected it to usb, and turned it on again... bsod. Same type, but referring to some ntkrnlmp.sys, and irql not less or equal.
   
  The third one is, that bothers me. So i realised, that the PC cant really deal with charging the E17 properly on the fly, and i decided to use a wall charger usb, and leave the E17 on optical. So there was no usb connection between the e17 and the PC anymore. I was watching a movie in kmplayer again (newest version) for like 15 minutes after the previous bsod, and there it was, a bsod again. But this time referring to page fault in nonpaged area bla bla, and ntkrnlmp.sys again.
   
  Do i see this right, that these BSOD-s are somehow related? Since i didnt have any bsods before using the E17... Or could it be the 192khz/24bit setting on the Xonar DX optical out? That setting was lower before, since my old amplifier did not support so high. Or something that the newest version of kmplayer uses (codec or idk how that works) ?
   
  Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





locutush said:


> Hello all,
> 
> i just registered, because i have a problem, and dint find a solution with just searching here...
> 
> ...


 
  It could be your Xonar, computer Southbridge chipset, and software and hardware having incompatibilities with the E17. The E17 uses Class 1 self contained drivers, but these of course an still cause hardware or software problems if some software you have or hardware gets an error. 
   
  That seemed to be the first time. The second time your PC BSOD'd was likely because you WERE using the Xonar to output a signal with your Windows sound selection and something triggered a hardware or software failure while it was doing so.
   
  I do have some solutions but if you are not a tech geek it may not be recommended to be done. And thus, keep using your E17 for a day or two and use it with other computers. Try just USB and then optical .
   
  If all else fails, I will tell you the more technical part which involves new drivers for the Xonar and the Southbridge chipset. Beware though, I do not hold any accountability for faulty drivers that the manufacturer has sent out, user error in installing or removing or doing something wrong, nor acts of nature where the power goes out while it is installing.


----------



## LocutusH

Thanks. I can send you the dmp files, if they are anything good for. Ive just used this online service to analyze them, and get the infos described above: http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=analyze
   
  As far as the E17 goes: I have reduced the output settings of the Xonars optical to 16/48, and was listeing 2 hours music without problems. Altough i could not test kmplayer yet, since the E17 suddenly unpowered, after just ~10 hours uptime (and 2 hours of listening music in that), after a full recharge, without warning me anyhow. I dont know whats up, but i have to charge it again now...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





locutush said:


> Thanks. I can send you the dmp files, if they are anything good for. Ive just used this online service to analyze them, and get the infos described above: http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=analyze
> 
> As far as the E17 goes: I have reduced the output settings of the Xonars optical to 16/48, and was listeing 2 hours music without problems. Altough i could not test kmplayer yet, since the E17 suddenly unpowered, after just ~10 hours uptime (and 2 hours of listening music in that), after a full recharge, without warning me anyhow. I dont know whats up, but i have to charge it again now...


 
  You can charge while using it through USB with USB chg setting turned on. If the E17 dies, the chg setting no matter what it was resets to on.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You can charge while using it through USB with USB chg setting turned on. If the E17 dies, the chg setting no matter what it was resets to on.


 
   
  This is getting more and more strage... I realized now, that it probably wasnt shutting down due to the battery. It is simply frozen. After charging, and turning it on again, it did not respond to any of the buttons anymore... i had to reset it...


----------



## jasonb

How do i update my E17 firmware? I dont have an option to view the timw it has run. Mine must be on an older firmware.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> How do i update my E17 firmware? I dont have an option to view the timw it has run. Mine must be on an older firmware.


 
  Time it has to run? The sleep timer? All models come with that by default. The ONLY firmware update to it is only for those that want to use ASIO with it. That is it.


----------



## jasonb

I read that there should be a place in the settings menu to see how long it has been on for. Like a smartphone or computer can tell you its uptime.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I read that there should be a place in the settings menu to see how long it has been on for. Like a smartphone or computer can tell you its uptime.


 
  http://youtu.be/axAewk-qFGw?hd=1&t=11m42s
   
  Its called "Run Time" follow the instructions to see where to go.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> How do i update my E17 firmware? I dont have an option to view the timw it has run. Mine must be on an older firmware.


 
   
   
  Sorry, the end user can't upgrade the firmware because need a special kits.


----------



## jasonb

Mine does not have this option. It is definitely not there
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> http://youtu.be/axAewk-qFGw?hd=1&t=11m42s
> 
> Its called "Run Time" follow the instructions to see where to go.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Mine does not have this option. It is definitely not there


 
  On the back of your E17, does it say Alpen or E17?
   
  What company did you buy it from? I do not believe a model of the E17 was released with a different firmware.


----------



## jasonb

It says alpen, i bought it from a seller on ebay named "thedigitalguy".
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> On the back of your E17, does it say Alpen or E17?
> 
> What company did you buy it from? I do not believe a model of the E17 was released with a different firmware.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> It says alpen, i bought it from a seller on ebay named "thedigitalguy".


 
  Let's wait till James(FiiO) responds back. I do not believe that any model had a change of firmware as such? But they may have just took that out. I do not know. Just make sure that it isn't there. It is in the reset, and firmware menu.


----------



## jasonb

My firmware is fw00ld12en, what is yours?
   
  That option is definitely not there.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Let's wait till James(FiiO) responds back. I do not believe that any model had a change of firmware as such? But they may have just took that out. I do not know. Just make sure that it isn't there. It is in the reset, and firmware menu.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> My firmware is fw00ld12en, what is yours?
> 
> That option is definitely not there.


 
  I had FW00LA17EN
   
  Let's wait till FiiO responds. I don't think its a fake, but who knows.


----------



## jasonb

I dont think its fake either. They must have firmware variations, id just like to know why or what else has been changed.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I had FW00LA17EN
> 
> Let's wait till FiiO responds. I don't think its a fake, but who knows.


----------



## JamesFiiO

There are not any report about fake E17.
   
  We removed the run time features in FW00LD12EN because some user complained about the E17 they received is used, but we need to burn in the E17 before delivery . 
   
  The second change is the new firmware make the E17 can adjust the gain while docking into E09K, nothing about SQ and big change.


----------



## jasonb

Ok, thanks for the reply! Good to know.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> There are not any report about fake E17.
> 
> We removed the run time features in FW00LD12EN because some user complained about the E17 they received is used, but we need to burn in the E17 before delivery .
> 
> The second change is the new firmware make the E17 can adjust the gain while docking into E09K, nothing about SQ and big change.


 
  Thanks. I thought it would be very hard for a company to build an E17 anyway. Getting the OLED panels, the hardware and metal case and everything.


----------



## Spiderman

So I just bought my e17 about 2 weeks ago from J&R and I am already having some problems with it. The volume buttons aren't registering properly, I have to tap the volume button 2 to 3 times for it to actually work and when it does it goes up by 2. Meaning there is some delay and you can't effectively increase the volume by one, basically you have to press it really hard two times for it to go up by two and that's when it works. I don't know if I am going to keep this product I mean the sound quality is amazing but the build quality leaves more to be desired.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





spiderman said:


> So I just bought my e17 about 2 weeks ago from J&R and I am already having some problems with it. The volume buttons aren't registering properly, I have to tap the volume button 2 to 3 times for it to actually work and when it does it goes up by 2. Meaning there is some delay and you can't effectively increase the volume by one, basically you have to press it really hard two times for it to go up by two and that's when it works. I don't know if I am going to keep this product I mean the sound quality is amazing but the build quality leaves more to be desired.


 
  That is an isolated issue. Reset it (hole at the top) and see if it still has this problem. If it does, either return, exchange, return and get different product. Sorry that a FiiO you bought had this problem.
   
  That isn't a build quality. That is a software one.


----------



## Airwin

I had also problems with the Alpen (with Win7 64).
   
  The E17 shown as correct installed, but I was unable to get any sound when using it as DAC.
   
  So, I sold the FiiO, things are relaxed again now   ( ... sound was also a bit bloodless, but that could be a subjective thing)


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





airwin said:


> I had also problems with the Alpen (with Win7 64).
> 
> The E17 shown as correct installed, but I was unable to get any sound when using it as DAC.
> 
> So, I sold the FiiO, things are relaxed again now   ( ... sound was also a bit bloodless, but that could be a subjective thing)


 
   
  Sorry things didn't work out dude, it was working fine for me on Win7 64 bit before i sent it to you.


----------



## rdsu

Do you know if E18 will only works with Android, or can also with other sources like a PC?


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

are any amps similar to e17 but can plug 2 headphones in?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone know what ranges the bass and treble controls affect? Merely curious...

I'm getting my my second E17 soon and specifically using its bass boost.


----------



## ClieOS

mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know what ranges the bass and treble controls affect? Merely curious...
> I'm getting my my second E17 soon and specifically using its bass boost.




First post, check it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks. What a dumb question, lol.

Ok, real question, when using the pre-amp for EQ to another amp, what volume on the E17 would you consider source level/identical to pure line out and what gain?


----------



## ClieOS

mad lust envy said:


> Thanks. What a dumb question, lol.
> Ok, real question, when using the pre-amp for EQ to another amp, what volume on the E17 would you consider source level/identical to pure line out and what gain?




Zero gain, max volume.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thanks.


 
  Aww. I liked the Chuunibyou avatar.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Avatars come and go. It will be back.


----------



## SurfWax

Considering this unit for my first DAC/amp but not liking the fact that many say they don't pair well with Grado's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You could always tame the treble with it.


----------



## jasonb

Who says that it doesn't pair well? It's a neutral amp when no EQ settings are changed, and bass can be added or subtracted as well as treble. It should be a very versatile amp.
  Quote: 





surfwax said:


> Considering this unit for my first DAC/amp but not liking the fact that many say they don't pair well with Grado's


----------



## unkle

Quote: 





surfwax said:


> ...but not liking the fact that many say they don't pair well with Grado's


 
   
  Why not?


----------



## SurfWax

Some have said it makes them even brighter, some have said its darker sounding - can't get a straight consensus on it. I'm sure the only solution would be to try it myself but I'd rather just pay less and go with the cmoyBB than audition something more expensive, but the E17 does seem a great value in itself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

treble reduction = instant darkness.


----------



## SurfWax

So its more to do with the settings the user chooses on the E17?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not fully, but the E17 is versatile enough to lessen the impact on headphones it wouldnt pair up with perfectly with the EQ adjusments. It's not a perfect fix, but it's very helpful.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Does the E17 DAC work with HTC Sensation XL?  and should i buy an OTG cable?


----------



## max pl

so is this thing considerably better than an E10 to justify its price, or should a newbie like me just go for an E10?
   
  mainly plan to use it with my laptop, so do i even need a dac/amp combo, or can i just get an amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Laptops tend to have bad DACs, so...


----------



## bowei006

Laptops. Not Mac's


----------



## max pl

macs have good dacs?


----------



## bowei006

They use Cirrus Logics that sound good actually. Very warm, but smooth. Also has about 90mW at 32 ohms so has some power. I am fine with them actually. Apple is known to use good Dac. Their phones and ipods do as well. Not magnificent but as in a dac and amp thatcomes standard. It is the only brand that has a good dac and amp thatcomes standard on all their devices from a major brand


----------



## max pl

if i use this with my laptop, does it stay charged thru USB, or is that just for audio, and it runs off the battery whether mobile or plugged in via USB?


----------



## jasonb

It will always run off of the battery. There is an option to charge or not to charge when plugged into usb, so that you can still cycle the battery if you use it as a USB DAC often.
   
  I see you live in Poughkeepsie, I'm in the Hyde Park/Pleasant Valley area. So howdy neighbor!
  Quote: 





max pl said:


> if i use this with my laptop, does it stay charged thru USB, or is that just for audio, and it runs off the battery whether mobile or plugged in via USB?


----------



## max pl

woah, i'm actually in Hyde Park too!
   
  and thanks for the response!


----------



## alexfsu

ASIO is not showing up in Ableton Live, is Live compatible with the beta driver?


----------



## SurfWax

Hey guys,

 So I know the E17 is more than enough for my Grado SR80i's, but does anyone have experience driving RS1i's with the E17? Probably save myself around $100 since it includes a DAC, along with it being an all-in-one unit, which is always attractive, over buying an Asgard and separate DAC.


----------



## esmBOS

I'm thinking about getting a Headstage Arrow 12HE 4G to pair with my E17. Main reason is to be able to drive 2 pairs of headphones simultaneously otg, second reason is I'm a basshead and I sometimes feel like I would like an even bigger boost than the E17 provides (yes I know it's ridiculous, but I want what I want  ). Anyone got any experience with this combo? Is there a more preferable way to go?


----------



## AdDicTiVe

Quote: 





esmbos said:


> I'm thinking about getting a Headstage Arrow 12HE 4G to pair with my E17. Main reason is to be able to drive 2 pairs of headphones simultaneously otg, second reason is I'm a basshead and I sometimes feel like I would like an even bigger boost than the E17 provides (yes I know it's ridiculous, but I want what I want  ). Anyone got any experience with this combo? Is there a more preferable way to go?


 

 i suggest you to go for alo rx mk3 then ,the bass knob will satisfy your addiction to bass


----------



## esmBOS

Quote: 





addictive said:


> i suggest you to go for alo rx mk3 then ,the bass knob will satisfy your addiction to bass


 
  The design and other specs of the mk3 is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. I have read however that the overall bass boost even if you turn the knob on the mk3 to max is much much less than that of the E17 alone.
   
  edit: when I take a closer look on the features tab on their website I can see that the maximum boost sub 100hz is about 3db, wich will not suffice  I really wish they made a version with a boost up to like 9db! I'd buy it in a heartbeat! http://www.aloaudio.com/rx-mk3


----------



## Chris J

surfwax said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> So I know the E17 is more than enough for my Grado SR80i's, but does anyone have experience driving RS1i's with the E17? Probably save myself around $100 since it includes a DAC, along with it being an all-in-one unit, which is always attractive, over buying an Asgard and separate DAC.




I don't own any Grados, but I've spent enough time listening to them to get a good feel of the flavour of Grados, if ya know what I mean?

The E17 certainly has enough power, however, the RS-1i really will benefit from a better amp and DAC. Don't get me wrong, one wayto look at this is to use the E17 until you can get a few more $$$ for a better amp and DAC. I certainly don't think the E17 and RS-1i will sound bad together, I just think the RS-1i has the potential to sound better.
I would think it is a combo you could live with for a year or two and would definitely sound better than using the SR-80i's. 
I have you tried the RS-2i?

Anyone have any thoughts on what the E09K brings to the table with the RS-1i?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably not a good combo due to the high output impedance of the E09K not meant for anything less than 80ohms, and also the fact that the E09K/E9 don't smoothen the treble range, so if the RS1 is harsh, they will stay harsh.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

Would it be possible to run a seperate amp from the E09K while the E17 is plugged in? I just want to use the E17 as a DAC plugged into an E09K and not separate.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





symphonictxn7 said:


> Would it be possible to run a seperate amp from the E09K while the E17 is plugged in? I just want to use the E17 as a DAC plugged into an E09K and not separate.


 
  Yes there is a line out option on the E90K. But you can also get the L7 for the E17.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

So hooking up say a Valhalla to the E09K is ok? I don't want to destroy or damage anything. I know about the L7, I just want to leave the E17 in the E09K to charge.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





symphonictxn7 said:


> So hooking up say a Valhalla to the E09K is ok? I don't want to destroy or damage anything. I know about the L7, I just want to leave the E17 in the E09K to charge.


 
  Going through more circuitry than you need to is not typically recommended.
   
  It should be fine. We do have to worry about what the power the E90K output is and what the maximum the Valhalla can receive but it is usually not enough to do any damage. When you have an input signal higher than the amp can handle, you just get distortion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't worry so much about the E09K's line out. Used it with my SA-31 and it sounded great.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

When hooking that up is there a setting that I need to set the E09K at? I will be using a HD-600.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Line out is untouched, meaning nothing you do on the E09k will affect the line out. Pre-out however is affected, and both gain and volume affect whatever is attached.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

Awesome. Thanks guys!


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





symphonictxn7 said:


> So hooking up say a Valhalla to the E09K is ok? I don't want to destroy or damage anything. I know about the L7, I just want to leave the E17 in the E09K to charge.


 
   
  For what it's worth, I run a E17 < a Valhalla -- not once felt I was going to overdrive the "2nd amp". I put the gain on +0 dB, volume on the FiiO at max usually, or near it.


----------



## Chris J

mad lust envy said:


> Probably not a good combo due to the high output impedance of the E09K not meant for anything less than 80ohms, and also the fact that the E09K/E9 don't smoothen the treble range, so if the RS1 is harsh, they will stay harsh.




Doesn't sound right, the E09K will drive 16 Ohm headphones. Got that from the spec sheet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uhh... yes, it will. However, the E09K has an output impedance of 10ohm. That is too high for low ohm headphones which adds distortion and alters sound signature negatively. The E9/E09K are technically a mismatch for anything less than 80ohms. In real world practice, I personally haven't noticed bad effects when I paired the E9 and E09K to low ohm headphones ranging from 32 to 62ohms, but it's certainly possible.

Reference as to what I'm talking about.


----------



## Kornasteniker

Hi,
   
  I was wondering if the E17 is shielded against electromagnetic rays? I would use it as an Amplifier for my Nexus 4 without having any interferance noice everytime my phone is ringing.
   
  Thank you,
  Kornasteniker


----------



## esmBOS

Quote: 





kornasteniker said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if the E17 is shielded against electromagnetic rays? I would use it as an Amplifier for my Nexus 4 without having any interferance noice everytime my phone is ringing.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I use mine strapped to my Nokia N9 all the time and I do not experience any interference due to wireless traffic. However, when the phone rings, you answer, right? Therefor it should not be a problem even if you got interference due to an incoming call


----------



## jasonb

I sometimes use mine with a cdma iPhone 4. I have not experienced any noise at all. The little E5 is noisy as hell used with a phone, but no issues with the E17.


----------



## solserenade

Heck, mine is sitting within 3 inches,  of all things, a lamp rheostat. Not a speck of noise.


----------



## mikescchen

Just got an E17 today.
  Eager to try so I bought an USB OTG cable, connect it with my JellyBean-running HTC OneX.
  Power on and... bingo! Great sound coming from the E17.
  Playing FLAC files with Google music player (stock player don't play FLAC), screen on.
  The OneX can even charge it (make the phone hot, though), and drain the battery fast (~1300mA, lol)
   
  Still playing it with different input / devices, finger crossed


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mikescchen said:


> Just got an E17 today.
> Eager to try so I bought an USB OTG cable, connect it with my JellyBean-running HTC OneX.
> Power on and... bingo! Great sound coming from the E17.
> Playing FLAC files with Google music player (stock player don't play FLAC), screen on.
> ...


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
   
  Great to hear that the E17 works with the Jelly Bean running HTC OneX. Are you using Cyanogen? Or does it work natively out?
   
  Lucky that you can use the DAC of the E17 with you.


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





brooko said:


> Think you might be getting a little confused - so I'll see if I can simplify it a bit.  From your previous posts + what I've read about the D3 & E17 ......
> 
> 
> D3 - you have two options for audio output :
> ...


*

  thank you, very informative post.
*


----------



## jasonb

I love this amp, and for thanksgiving I really thankful for the bass boost. It makes dubstep fun on the Q701. +4 bass boost is good for electronic and for everything else I use +2 bass boost.  
   
  Also, the sub-bass is quite impressive on the Q701 to begin with. Its great for an open headphone.


----------



## mikescchen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
> 
> Great to hear that the E17 works with the Jelly Bean running HTC OneX. Are you using Cyanogen? Or does it work natively out?
> 
> Lucky that you can use the DAC of the E17 with you.


 
  I'm using Revolution HD 10.0, but this package uses the same kernel with stock ROM...
  So stock JB ROM should do it too.
   
  I'm using UE TF10 with it, the sound become so much warmer that I'm not used to lol


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mikescchen said:


> I'm using Revolution HD 10.0, but this package uses the same kernel with stock ROM...
> So stock JB ROM should do it too.
> 
> I'm using UE TF10 with it, the sound become so much warmer that I'm not used to lol


 
  On the TF10's, for me, a +2 to the maybe sometimes +4dB treble is what I would want. That's about it. Otherwise I would just create a custom EQ for it on my computer and then move it onto a custom EQ app like the "Denon Audio" (It's a music player with awesome EQ for iOS 5+) instead of relying on the E17's more general but not as exact EQ


----------



## mikescchen

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> On the TF10's, for me, a +2 to the maybe sometimes +4dB treble is what I would want. That's about it. Otherwise I would just create a custom EQ for it on my computer and then move it onto a custom EQ app like the "Denon Audio" (It's a music player with awesome EQ for iOS 5+) instead of relying on the E17's more general but not as exact EQ


 
  Thanks for the info 
  I usually use speakers with computer, so the difference is not obvious (speaker's too bad lol)
  As for mobile player, luckily I'm using Cowon J3, which has very customizable EQ


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> A few users have used the E17 (as a DAC) with the LittleDot,but they are no longer here.
> 
> 
> You have to buy a few things first..not expensive so don't worry.
> ...


 
  thank you, informative post...I had forgotten why I purchased the L7 for my E17 Alpen


----------



## anirudhBandi

Hi, this is my first post on head-fi. Just got this and totally love it. Had a akg k701 unamped for a longtime and now finally got to amp em and the bass boost +12 db gain makes these cold headphones a jack of all. The amp & equalizer is prolly overkill for my jvc xxplosives which already have plenty of bass but are benefitting from the dac which i found better than my onboad pc soundcard.
 Although am finding the soundstage is more in-your-facish now. I guess the pairing is not exactly a match made in heaven, ill probably end up getting the matrix m-stage or shiit-smthing in future. Please advice me on which of the dedicated amps be a good match for the dac in fiio e17 to amp my akg k701.
  Also just upgraded my s3 to jellybean, cant wait to test the usb audio wid e17, fingers crossed!


----------



## bowei006

"Welcome to Headfi, sorry about your wallet"
I use Fiio's bass boost to reduce the bass on my MHiCs. I have a software bassed eq on my pc for my Q701s through foobar. Ill check later if the eq system is a bit comparable.


----------



## Chris J

anirudhbandi said:


> Hi, this is my first post on head-fi. Just got this and totally love it. Had a akg k701 unamped for a longtime and now finally got to amp em and the bass boost +12 db gain makes these cold headphones a jack of all. The amp & equalizer is prolly overkill for my jvc xxplosives which already have plenty of bass but are benefitting from the dac which i found better than my onboad pc soundcard.
> 
> Although am finding the soundstage is more in-your-facish now. I guess the pairing is not exactly a match made in heaven, ill probably end up getting the matrix m-stage or shiit-smthing in future. Please advice me on which of the dedicated amps be a good match for the dac in fiio e17 to amp my akg k701.
> Also just upgraded my s3 to jellybean, cant wait to test the usb audio wid e17, fingers crossed!




Hey, welcome to Head Fi!

Much as I like the E17 and Q701 together, the M Stage has a greater sense of space to it. More open sounding, more effortless. Very worthwhile, IMHO.
Of course, you can still use the E17 as a DAC!


----------



## anirudhBandi

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Hey, welcome to Head Fi!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 glad to know that m stage has more open sounding pairing wid the k701, M stage is next on my list now. Although ill prolly squeeze every inch out of e17 before i move on!
  
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Headfi, sorry about your wallet"
> I use Fiio's bass boost to reduce the bass on my MHiCs. I have a software bassed eq on my pc for my Q701s through foobar. Ill check later if the eq system is a bit comparable.


 
  i would very much like to hear your thoughts on the eq, on a side note i found the treble setting much more useful to tame the highs on these! Jazz never sounded better


----------



## jasonb

Hey guys, I had been having an issue when using the E17 as a DAC where the audio would stutter on occasion. Just for the record, I never once thought that it was an E17 issue. It would always happen when multi-tasking, like listening to music and web browsing at the same time. It was definitely an issue of either high CPU usage or high memory usage. My laptop is a couple year old basic lowish end HP G60. It's a dual core 2.20GHZ Pentium, Windows 7 64-bit, with 3GB of ram, so nothing fancy, but not terribly low end or old either. I think it was around $400 when i got it a couple years ago.
   
  Anyway, what I tried tonight was removing every single piece of software or bloatware that was on here that I never use, and then of course a reboot when I was done. I removed stuff like Office 2007, HP support assistant, expired Norton anti-virus, and crap like that. Stuff that may be running that never actually gets used. I also chose a Windows 7 theme that has no animations or anything fancy going on, I tried the theme before by itself and still had hiccups, but I figured this on top of removing stuff should help even more. It's only been a couple of hours since, but so far not a single hiccup or stutter. Before this, I would get a quick hiccup every time I would refresh a webpage or switch between iTunes and Chrome. CPU usage seems lower overall, and there is definitely less memory being used. Before it would sit around 60-75%, now it's been just under 50% ever since the reboot. I hope it's not to soon to think this problem is solved, but so far it seems like it has been resolved.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Hey guys, I had been having an issue when using the E17 as a DAC where the audio would stutter on occasion. Just for the record, I never once thought that it was an E17 issue. It would always happen when multi-tasking, like listening to music and web browsing at the same time. It was definitely an issue of either high CPU usage or high memory usage. My laptop is a couple year old basic lowish end HP G60. It's a dual core 2.20GHZ Pentium, Windows 7 64-bit, with 3GB of ram, so nothing fancy, but not terribly low end or old either. I think it was around $400 when i got it a couple years ago.
> 
> Anyway, what I tried tonight was removing every single piece of software or bloatware that was on here that I never use, and then of course a reboot when I was done. I removed stuff like Office 2007, HP support assistant, expired Norton anti-virus, and crap like that. Stuff that may be running that never actually gets used. I also chose a Windows 7 theme that has no animations or anything fancy going on, I tried the theme before by itself and still had hiccups, but I figured this on top of removing stuff should help even more. It's only been a couple of hours since, but so far not a single hiccup or stutter. Before this, I would get a quick hiccup every time I would refresh a webpage or switch between iTunes and Chrome. CPU usage seems lower overall, and there is definitely less memory being used. Before it would sit around 60-75%, now it's been just under 50% ever since the reboot. I hope it's not to soon to think this problem is solved, but so far it seems like it has been resolved.


 
  That is some good problem solving  I wish everyone would try stuff like that. The majority of E17 issues are fixed with problem solving. But of course asking doesn't hurt either which is why I'm here.
  My .......... ummm...hmm how should I say it.... secondary computer for testing uses those specs.... but I have never tried to use it for audio.


----------



## jasonb

Are you saying these specs suck for audio? Is it really that bad of a PC?
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That is some good problem solving  I wish everyone would try stuff like that. The majority of E17 issues are fixed with problem solving. But of course asking doesn't hurt either which is why I'm here.
> *My .......... ummm...hmm how should I say it.... secondary computer for testing uses those specs.... but I have never tried to use it for audio.*


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Are you saying these specs suck for audio? Is it really that bad of a PC?


 
  Audio? Not really. I have been known by other head-fi'ers to call that test PC another name. Not very appatizing if you know what I mean.
   
  Bad? Not really but for my purposes just not what I am looking for. That last part was so that if anyone of my compadres saw the message, they wouldn't call me out on it.
   
  So basically I was just covering my tail. But yes, I do have a similar spec'd computer in the house.


----------



## jasonb

Gotcha, I always thought this laptop was good enough. I mean I use it pretty much only for music and web browsing. I don't edit video or pictures or anything, I don't try to game on it. It's just for music and web browsing. Until it dies, it will have to do.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Audio? Not really. I have been known by other head-fi'ers to call that test PC another name. Not very appatizing if you know what I mean.
> 
> Bad? Not really but for my purposes just not what I am looking for. That last part was so that if anyone of my compadres saw the message, they wouldn't call me out on it.
> 
> So basically I was just covering my tail. But yes, I do have a similar spec'd computer in the house.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Hey guys, I had been having an issue when using the E17 as a DAC where the audio would stutter on occasion. Just for the record, I never once thought that it was an E17 issue. It would always happen when multi-tasking, like listening to music and web browsing at the same time. It was definitely an issue of either high CPU usage or high memory usage. My laptop is a couple year old basic lowish end HP G60. It's a dual core 2.20GHZ Pentium, Windows 7 64-bit, with 3GB of ram, so nothing fancy, but not terribly low end or old either. I think it was around $400 when i got it a couple years ago.
> 
> Anyway, what I tried tonight was removing every single piece of software or bloatware that was on here that I never use, and then of course a reboot when I was done. I removed stuff like Office 2007, HP support assistant, expired Norton anti-virus, and crap like that. Stuff that may be running that never actually gets used. I also chose a Windows 7 theme that has no animations or anything fancy going on, I tried the theme before by itself and still had hiccups, but I figured this on top of removing stuff should help even more. It's only been a couple of hours since, but so far not a single hiccup or stutter. Before this, I would get a quick hiccup every time I would refresh a webpage or switch between iTunes and Chrome. CPU usage seems lower overall, and there is definitely less memory being used. Before it would sit around 60-75%, now it's been just under 50% ever since the reboot. I hope it's not to soon to think this problem is solved, but so far it seems like it has been resolved.


 
   
  It may not be your cup of tea, but there's a little free app that optimizes pc resources for audio processing. If you are game to let it tune your machine without telling you exactly what it's doing, then google 'fidelizer'. You may find some discussions on it in the computer audio section.


----------



## jasonb

I would try it. It is reversable if it doesnt work for me or i dont like the results?
  Quote: 





pleasantsounds said:


> It may not be your cup of tea, but there's a little free app that optimizes pc resources for audio processing. If you are game to let it tune your machine without telling you exactly what it's doing, then google 'fidelizer'. You may find some discussions on it in the computer audio section.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I would try it. It is reversable if it doesnt work for me or i dont like the results?


 
   
  According to the write-up no changes are permanent - i.e. after reboot it's back to normal.
  I have tried it on one of my computers and haven't noticed any side effects.


----------



## m8o

Hi all,
   
  Since this clearly has become an Alpen e17 Appreciation/Problems/Help thread I'll pose my question here. 
   
  I've only had tube head amps since getting into the hobby in a somewhat 'serious' (if relatively small in my case) way, and I must say my choice to go with the e17 for my first portable and solid state amp was a wise one.  It's been glued to my newest headphone purchase of the Focal Spirit Ones since I got the e17, using either my HP 8740w over USB or (very aged) legacy iPod 60 gig as a source.  If something sounds better I don't want to know because I'm pretty damn happy after spending so little (I kid, I do know about the multitudes of other/better portable options). 
   
  But I've sort of been on a quest since getting the e17 to find a digital source to make my new portable player and put the ol'iPod out to pasture.  And that brings me to my question... 
   
  Am I wasting my time trying to find a source that has S/PDIF out (and what extremely futile task it's been at that) to be able to make use of the higher bit & sampling rates the e17 can support?    Should I just find a source capable of USB-Data out and be done w/it and be happy with 24/96K?  The 'only' choice today seems to be the Cowon D3 for a 'budget' digital player that could make full use of my e17, and tho I don't know what they are, I hear it's not a trouble-free/consistently experience using it (and there's that long cable I'd have to wind tight but only utilize a short portion of the digital coax part of it).  And other players with S/PDIF out also have a comparable or superior DAC built in, are many X more $, and only the analog amp stage of the e17 could be utilized to any real effect.
   
  So in short, should I just get a digital source with USB-Data capabilities out like the HM-601, and be done w/it?  Is there an android player you'd recommend for USB-data out as I very much enjoy being able to utilize an EQ for minor but important freq. resp. tweeks.  Ideally a small 5 inch screened windows tablet that ran Foobar2K and had USB-data out would be the ultimate, but I don't believe that exists... does it? (hrrrm, just found the many "Archos" product offerings; maybe it does)
   
  Any informed replies appreciated.  Thanx.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Quote: 





m8o said:


> Am I wasting my time trying to find a source that has S/PDIF out (and what extremely futile task it's been at that) to be able to make use of the higher bit & sampling rates the e17 can support?    Should I just find a source capable of USB-Data out and be done w/it and be happy with 24/96K?  The 'only' choice today seems to be the Cowon D3 for a 'budget' digital player that could make full use of my e17, and tho I don't know what they are, I hear it's not a trouble-free/consistently experience using it (and there's that long cable I'd have to wind tight but only utilize a short portion of the digital coax part of it).  And other players with S/PDIF out also have a comparable or superior DAC built in, are many X more $, and only the analog amp stage of the e17 could be utilized to any real effect.


 
   
  From my experience with much higher grade equipment than the e17, the difference between 96k and 192k is nearly impossible to distinguish, at least when you upsample from 44.1k. I think this mode has been provided in e17 just to increase compatibility with other equipment. Don't expect spectacular results - in the end it's only a decent entry level DAC/amp.


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





pleasantsounds said:


> From my experience with much higher grade equipment than the e17, the difference between 96k and 192k is nearly impossible to distinguish, at least when you upsample from 44.1k. I think this mode has been provided in e17 just to increase compatibility with other equipment. Don't expect spectacular results - in the end it's only a decent entry level DAC/amp.


 
   
  Thank you PleasantSounds for being the voice of reason against my musings and confusions.    It sounds like sound advise.
   
  -steve


----------



## tim3320070

$99 on B&H right now


----------



## audiolicious

Quote: 





clieos said:


> While it is always better not to adjust volume digitally, it is hard for average consumer to understand why they are not allow to use it. So it the end, it is just reason of convenience to let the user to decide how to use it. The USB implementation on E17 is every bit better than that of E7, just adding another option to make everyone happy because digital volume control seems like a better feature for average Joe than better resolution, especially since most don't understand resolution correctly.
> 
> If normal resolution music plays fine on iPad + E17, then it is almost certainly an issue of driver.
> 
> ...


 
  Hey all, sorry if this is a noob question, but I'm wondering how to disable the software volume control over the E17. I'd prefer letting the dac of the E17 handle the conversion, instead of the PC soundcard (as I assume it must if the volume and eq for usb out are adjustable in the software).
   
  Thanks for any help anyone wishes to give. (And sorry if this is answered elsewhere, I couldn't find anything...)


----------



## Chris J

audiolicious said:


> Hey all, sorry if this is a noob question, but I'm wondering how to disable the software volume control over the E17. I'd prefer letting the dac of the E17 handle the conversion, instead of the PC soundcard (as I assume it must if the volume and eq for usb out are adjustable in the software).
> 
> Thanks for any help anyone wishes to give. (And sorry if this is answered elsewhere, I couldn't find anything...)




Someone else can add their opinion, but I think you need a FiiO L7.


----------



## bowei006

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The E7 had software volume control disabled. However their user base is huge. And many complained as they didn't understand it so now all their DAC's allow the computer to also use its own volume control. Just set computer volume to 100 when you are using as DAC


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





audiolicious said:


> Hey all, sorry if this is a noob question, but I'm wondering how to disable the software volume control over the E17. I'd prefer letting the dac of the E17 handle the conversion, instead of the PC soundcard (as I assume it must if the volume and eq for usb out are adjustable in the software).
> 
> Thanks for any help anyone wishes to give. (And sorry if this is answered elsewhere, I couldn't find anything...)


 
   
  As said, the software volume control is now enable due to popular demand, even though it is better not to. You just have to stop yourself from trying to adjust the volume on the PC....


----------



## jasonb

Exactly, put everything to 100% and then don't touch it. Set Windows volume to 100%, and then set whatever music player you are using to 100% as well. That's it. 
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> As said, the software volume control is now enable due to popular demand, even though it is better not to. You just have to stop yourself from trying to adjust the volume on the PC....


----------



## gavinfabl

Today my E17 arrived. I charged it in my car ready for use when I got home. It's connected via a Fiio Lod to my iPod Classic. I used either HD558 or Bose AE2i. 

This little black box is a wonder. Really lovely sound on BOTH headphones. In fact it does wonders with the Bose. Also stunning with the Sennheiser HD558. Very pleased. 

Wondering now if there is a need to get the E12 when it's released.


----------



## Gazoozles

What is the best way to use the e7's DAC/amp with an iphone? What cord is the best?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





gazoozles said:


> What is the best way to use the e7's DAC/amp with an iphone? What cord is the best?


 
  L9 LOD from FiiO or another LOD of your choice but FiiO L9 is ergonomic for iPhone and cheap. The L9 can not be used with iOS 6 I think.


----------



## jasonb

Glad you like it. I like mine a whole lot.
  Quote: 





gavinfabl said:


> Today my E17 arrived. I charged it in my car ready for use when I got home. It's connected via a Fiio Lod to my iPod Classic. I used either HD558 or Bose AE2i.
> This little black box is a wonder. Really lovely sound on BOTH headphones. In fact it does wonders with the Bose. Also stunning with the Sennheiser HD558. Very pleased.
> Wondering now if there is a need to get the E12 when it's released.


----------



## mellowbob

Hello!
I just received my E17 and the darn thing will not turn on unless the USB is connected. 
I've made sure the lock switch is not on and I've let it charge for almost a whole day. 
The battery indicator shows that it is full. It just will not turn on if I unplug it from the usb.
Anyone experienced this? I thought I'd check here before requesting an RMA.


----------



## bowei006

Did you try the reset switch up top? Not too sure but it seems to be faulty battery.

With usb plugged in. Turn OFF usb charge. Does it turn off?


----------



## mellowbob

The moment I turn off USB charge, it shuts off.


----------



## AngryGuy

Has anyone else had a problem with the battery level indicator never showing a full charge? I leave it plugged in until the red light goes off on the power button but when I turn it on the battery indicator does not show a full charge, it looks like it is missing 1 bar on the indicator. Brand new E17. Anything I can try?


----------



## catspaw

I got my Fiio E17 for about a month now. 
  Wanted to make sure id get the right impression on it before i wrote something here.
  First of all, let me tell you that if i am not using my Fiio E17, its because i forgot to pick it on my way to work. I actually carry with me the fiio, the cowon i9 and some senns 380 HD Pro on my way to work, and the trip is 20 minutes.
   
  Also, the cowon has clearly proven that my tracks need more quality (a lot more), since i have music that sounds so good i cant get enought of it, and other i just want to skip right away (didnt have that before the Fiio E17).
   
  I am currently thinking of upgrading my headset to a HIFIMAN HE-500, 400 or sennheisers HD 600, 650 yet i have first to confirm that the Fiio can drive them since i dont have any other amp.
   
  It costed me 150E moreless, but was well worth it as far as my needs go.
   
  The best part however is the DAC. My laptop already produces decent sound from the 3.5 mm jack, but the Fiio E17 is simply better. At start for me it was a bit hard to notice any diffrence, but when my ears got used to the Fiio Sound, i simply have to plug it on everytime i use my laptop.
   
  Id say the sound simply "has more in it". Kinda noob term, but so far i am unable to exactly describe it.


----------



## bowei006

mellowbob said:


> The moment I turn off USB charge, it shuts off.



Return to the buyer you bought it off of. Either return for refund or exchange if possible.




angryguy said:


> Has anyone else had a problem with the battery level indicator never showing a full charge? I leave it plugged in until the red light goes off on the power button but when I turn it on the battery indicator does not show a full charge, it looks like it is missing 1 bar on the indicator. Brand new E17. Anything I can try?




Battery indicators are usually not accurate. That happened to me once with the E17 but I paid it no mind


----------



## Darkimmortal

Yet more USB trouble: besides the various issues it causes on PCs it is plugged into, there is a significant sound difference between:
   
  - Plugged direct into USB2 port
  - Plugged direct into USB3 port
  - Sharing a USB2 hub with several devices, all attached to a USB3 port
   
  I'm not going to spew subjective audio crap and say which is better/worse, but they're distinctly different.
   
  Very likely this is due to driver/chipset/controller issues on the PC end to be fair, guess this is why there is a market for asynchronous usb audio.
   
   
  Thank **** it has a flawless S/PDIF input (sounds unbelievably good hooked up via optical to a xonar dx), now if only there was a cheap way to get S/PDIF on a laptop...


----------



## bowei006

The add on spdif units for computers usually arent that good.

It could be but i dont know how likely the chipsets could unless something was really wrong.

Look at my sig. Im co founder of the anime thread, join us


----------



## AngryGuy

bowei006 said:


> Battery indicators are usually not accurate. That happened to me once with the E17 but I paid it no mind




Well if it happened once I would not mind but it always shows this way even after having discharged it and charged it several times now to see if it would correct itself.


----------



## jasonb

so, right after it shows fully charged, you unplug it or turn off USB charge, and it only shows 4 bars instead of 5?
  Quote: 





angryguy said:


> Well if it happened once I would not mind but it always shows this way even after having discharged it and charged it several times now to see if it would correct itself.


----------



## AngryGuy

jasonb said:


> so, right after it shows fully charged, you unplug it or turn off USB charge, and it only shows 4 bars instead of 5?



It never shows the 5th bar at all even if it is still plugged in with usb charge on and a full charge.


----------



## l veracity l

Has anybody tried the DAC function with the Shure srh-840? Would this be a good improvement for those?


----------



## gavinfabl

Been using mine now for a week solidly. No problems just great performance. Very pleased. It looks good too.


----------



## kalbee

l veracity l said:


> Has anybody tried the DAC function with the Shure srh-840? Would this be a good improvement for those?



Did not get to try the DAC but did the amp+lod and it works fine. Granted I did not like the 840 sound signature to begin with but in terms of whether or not it works well, yes it could work very well.
Improvement over what?


----------



## briankeeeem

I received my FiiO E17 a day earlier than expected. I bought one used off ebay from a seller with 0 reputation. Fortunately, I wasn't scammed. Hey, everybody's gotta start somewhere right?

 I am a bit confused, or disappointed with the sound quality, namely the bass.I am probably just used to the sound signature of my less-than-stellar M-Audiobox USB's DAC and amp, but I feel as though there is significant muddiness and lack of definition in the bass. The low end extension comes out much better and I can definitely feel the bass a lot more now, but I feel there is a lot of cloudiness around 60-125hz.

 Would an ideal description of the E17 be "mostly neutral, with a slight emphasis on bass"? This is what I have read throughout the thread, but I feel maybe I underestimated the "emphasis on bass".

 I will keep listening and see if I become accustomed to the so-claimed, "warmly neutral" sound of the E17.

 Besides that, I was pleasantly surprised upon opening the less than mint-condition box and being greeted by the E17. It is definitely a lot smaller than it looks in pictures. It also looks a lot cleaner than in most pictures. To be honest, it looks a bit crap in most pictures people post (due to flash and lighting exaggerating dust and lint). The controls are very nice and the interface is very straightforward and simple. I do wish the EQ options could go in intervals of 1. To those who say that 2 is fine instead of 1 because you wouldn't be able to hear the difference then, trust me, I can hear the difference. If a change of 1db is under the difference threshold, especially for treble, then I don't see why you guys spend so much money on cables. Obviously, a change of 1db is not as distinct as a change of 2db, but that's exactly the point. Also, have we established that the EQ intervals are indeed expressed in dB? I seem to have missed that as I read the thread.

 Sorry if I come off as arrogant or rude or anything else negative and not nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I'm just trying expressing my opinion, and MY experience regarding the topic. All of our sonic preferences are different, along with the way we hear, whether a result of the way we as individuals are physically or psychologically wired. And yes, I am aware Feiao has stated that the 2db interval is a result of unchangeable hardware properties.


----------



## l veracity l

Oh sorry I meant an improvement over just an iPod Nano with no amp.


----------



## zzffnn

I am downgrading from a balanced (XLR) AMB Gamma2 DAC. If someone here offers a Fiio E17 plus paypal to trade with me, I will consider (please PM me). Thanks.


----------



## parasitius

Quote: 





darkimmortal said:


> Thank **** it has a flawless S/PDIF input (sounds unbelievably good hooked up via optical to a xonar dx), now if only there was a cheap way to get S/PDIF on a laptop...


 
   
  More laptops than you realize have this secretly built in to the headphone port. My MacBook Pro, for example, and I think one of my Toshibas but I can't remember for sure.


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





parasitius said:


> More laptops than you realize have this secretly built in to the headphone port. My MacBook Pro, for example, and I think one of my Toshibas but I can't remember for sure.


 
   
  What the...?!   Seriously?  Have any idea how I can tell if I have it?  And is that optical or coax output by the Headphone jack? EDIT:  Oh, just read your mention of "optical to a xonar dx".  And google let me know "xonar dx" is an Asus sound-card thing.  Got it.
   
  I wish I had the adapters & cables that came in the E17 box but I left it in my other place.  ...Assuming here the adapter(s) they provided in the box is all that is required; are there any different adapters required in addition to the onew CiiO gave us in the box to do this? 
   
  Thanx


----------



## kalbee

m8o said:


> What the...?!   Seriously?  Have any idea how I can tell if I have it?  And is that optical or coax output by the Headphone jack? EDIT:  Oh, just read your mention of "optical to a xonar dx".  And google let me know "xonar dx" is an Asus sound-card thing.  Got it.
> 
> I wish I had the adapters & cables that came in the E17 box but I left it in my other place.  ...Assuming here the adapter(s) they provided in the box is all that is required; are there any different adapters required in addition to the onew CiiO gave us in the box to do this?
> 
> Thanx



I think if any of the 3.5mm ports have red light coming out of them they support optical.
The adapter FiiO provided will serve to go from toslink (optical cable standard plug) to mini-toslink. If your computer also uses a stereo mini plug with optical support, then you will need another adapter. Unless your cable is already toslink to mini-toslink.

I may have gotten the naming wrong.


----------



## bowei006

m8o said:


> What the...?!   Seriously?  Have any idea how I can tell if I have it?  And is that optical or coax output by the Headphone jack? EDIT:  Oh, just read your mention of "optical to a xonar dx".  And google let me know "xonar dx" is an Asus sound-card thing.  Got it.
> 
> I wish I had the adapters & cables that came in the E17 box but I left it in my other place.  ...Assuming here the adapter(s) they provided in the box is all that is required; are there any different adapters required in addition to the onew CiiO gave us in the box to do this?
> 
> Thanx


CiiO provided many things 
You can tell by reading or downloading your manual. Sometimes you may needto enable optical output through 3.5mm.


----------



## nirvana das

n an accident i have lost my 85% hearing  in my one ear...and other ear normal..
i am a gamer n play counter strike 1.6...
at full window sound i can listen very thin sound from my damaged ear..
i need a very very loud amplification for my damaged ear..so i can enjoy my gaming..
when i placed mobile speaker on my damaged ear than i can able to listen music from that ear...so u can determine how much amplification i need...
can fiio e6 amp could do this..?


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> CiiO provided many things
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol, you had me wondering who CiiO was, and I figured immediately it was a typo.  I then discovered the etymology of that higher-up in this thread...  -hahaha  ...Whoops!
   
  I see that my laptop's sound card's hardware can support it, as other HP models that use the "IDT 92HD75B" have S/PDIF Toslink out of the headphone port.  But I'm thinking mine 8740w does not implement it. 
   
  I'm now going down the path of taking the DisplayPort output from my 8740w and breaking out S/PDIF using a converter/switch/matrix box that breaks it out (as I have need of switching between 3 HDMI sources anyway w/o a high-end PrePro at my desk).  My only concern/worry there is I don't know if the S/PDIF is not just broken-out/converted from the HDMI signal, but rather the signal is produced via a re-sampling of the HDMI signal to produce the S/PDIF out.  And that to me is a questionable approach, as I worry it can have sync problems and introduce errors degrading the quality that I'm going for.  Anyone know definitively how exactly S/PDIF can be produced from HDMI?


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> I think if any of the 3.5mm ports have red light coming out of them they support optical. The adapter FiiO provided will serve to go from toslink (optical cable standard plug) to mini-toslink. If your computer also uses a stereo mini plug with optical support, then you will need another adapter. Unless your cable is already toslink to mini-toslink.


 
   
  Thank you Kalbee


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





nirvana das said:


> n an accident i have lost my 85% hearing  in my one ear...and other ear normal..
> i am a gamer n play counter strike 1.6...
> at full window sound i can listen very thin sound from my damaged ear..
> i need a very very loud amplification for my damaged ear..so i can enjoy my gaming..
> ...


 
  Blowing out your last ear is not a good idea. Why not play with your good ear with an earbud in?
   
  IT depends on how "easy" your headphone is to drive. 
  Quote: 





m8o said:


> Lol, you had me wondering who CiiO was, and I figured immediately it was a typo.  I then discovered the etymology of that higher-up in this thread...  -hahaha  ...Whoops!
> 
> I see that my laptop's sound card's hardware can support it, as other HP models that use the "IDT 92HD75B" have S/PDIF Toslink out of the headphone port.  But I'm thinking mine 8740w does not implement it.
> 
> I'm now going down the path of taking the DisplayPort output from my 8740w and breaking out S/PDIF using a converter/switch/matrix box that breaks it out (as I have need of switching between 3 HDMI sources anyway w/o a high-end PrePro at my desk).  My only concern/worry there is I don't know if the S/PDIF is not just broken-out/converted from the HDMI signal, but rather the signal is produced via a re-sampling of the HDMI signal to produce the S/PDIF out.  And that to me is a questionable approach, as I worry it can have sync problems and introduce errors degrading the quality that I'm going for.  Anyone know definitively how exactly S/PDIF can be produced from HDMI?


 
  HDMI allows for digital audio but S/PDIF exactly? I do not.


----------



## kalbee

nirvana das said:


> n an accident i have lost my 85% hearing  in my one ear...and other ear normal..
> i am a gamer n play counter strike 1.6...
> at full window sound i can listen very thin sound from my damaged ear..
> i need a very very loud amplification for my damaged ear..so i can enjoy my gaming..
> ...



Assuming you want to be using a headset or headphones:
I'm guessing you would benefit from a balance function, which the E6 does not have.
Or you can probably do it from the Windows side.
I don't know how loud the E6 goes to though, sorry.


----------



## jasonb

Anyone else's battery life seem better than the advertised 15 hours? I use mine with my computer hooked to USB powering a Q701 at 6db gain at about 25-30 volume. I charge it once a week and I use it for 3-5 hours a day with USB charge turned off. When using it 3-5 hours a day it should only last 3-5 days, but I charge it once a week and when I charge it, it usually still shows 2-3 bars on the battery meter. I think the last time I charged it was Saturday, and here it is on Wednesday still showing 4 out of 5 bars on the battery meter. Just saying that it seems better than advertised.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Anyone else's battery life seem better than the advertised 15 hours? I use mine with my computer hooked to USB powering a Q701 at 6db gain at about 25-30 volume. I charge it once a week and I use it for 3-5 hours a day with USB charge turned off. When using it 3-5 hours a day it should only last 3-5 days, but I charge it once a week and when I charge it, it usually still shows 2-3 bars on the battery meter. I think the last time I charged it was Saturday, and here it is on Wednesday still showing 4 out of 5 bars on the battery meter. Just saying that it seems better than advertised.


 
  Plugging in through USB even with USB Chg off seems to give a much longer battery life. This could be that the computer is providing power over USB and thus you are really only powering amplifier and screen. This is just my guess


----------



## kalbee

When plugged in to USB, the E17 draws power from the computer, be the USB charging on or off.
  So basically with USB charge off, the only payload on the battery is the extra amount the USB cable is not providing.
   
  Perhaps something along the lines of:
  Power_Draw_USB_Charging_ON >= Power_Draw_USB_Charging_OFF
  Battery_Consumption = Total_Consumption - Power_Draw_USB_Charging_OFF
   
  You can pretty much go months on end without charging it, as long as it remains plugged to the computer.
  The advertised battery life is when it is used without any USB connection made.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> When plugged in to USB, the E17 draws power from the computer, be the USB charging on or off.
> So basically with USB charge off, the only payload on the battery is the extra amount the USB cable is not providing.
> 
> Perhaps something along the lines of:
> ...


 
  I see.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Is E10+E11 better than E17?


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

also do these Fiio amps come with cables to connect to android phones with?


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> also do these Fiio amps come with cables to connect to android phones with?


 

 Just the short headphone-out to line in cable.  Look for any pics on this board (in this thread?) or on the 'net of what you get in the package to see it.  Actually, you see it in the 1st pic in the 1st post.
   
  I gave-up trying to determine if I even _can_ stream USB-Audio from the Droid3 (in my case) and settled on I can't; so I gave-up looking for a USB cable with the two different mine/micro/whatever plugs that the two use.


----------



## bowei006

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is E10+E11 better than E17?



Headfonia has a review of the E17 that has his own opinion on this matter.




asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> also do these Fiio amps come with cables to connect to android phones with?



For headphone out of android device to aux in on E17 then yes. No for usb otg from android to e17. It only has type A usb to the mini or micro B connector used on E17


----------



## Surgut2006

Please help.
  My E17 worked for less than a day.
  After buying a fully charged via USB.
  When listening to music the battery is empty and all .... device is no longer included
  The menu set before use - Charge USB - OFF
  Indicator when connected to USB directly or through L7 is red.
  RESET to not respond.
  On opening the back cover measured the battery voltage - 0.8 volts.
  Charge of external charging - the same result.
  Disconnect the battery from the E17 - connect USB - red light - does not work.
  In this forum and others (Russia) reported elevation across the device after the E17 does not turn off, then the problem is not unique. Someone turned on after RESET and someone not.
  Would love to hear your recommendations how to proceed in this case.
  Again - the device worked only a few hours!!
    Device purchased in mp4 nation.
   
  Use E7 E9 L7


----------



## kalbee

surgut2006 said:


> Please help.
> My E17 worked for less than a day.
> After buying a fully charged via USB.
> When listening to music the battery is empty and all .... device is no longer included
> ...



If I am understanding properly, you used your E17 until the battery ran out, correct?
Even if USB Charge is set to OFF, once the battery level is low to the point you can no longer turn on the device, it will automatically switch back to ON. It does perform oddly in the event of dried battery but leave it to charge long enough and it will come back.
Red light means it is charging.
I don't think it was a good idea to have opened them up (and removing the soldered batteries) before posting though.

The E17 will not function without a battery inside. Not exactly sure how it should be described as but the amp, battery, and USB are connected in series I guess. So with the batteries removed the red light will not turn on.

Unless you are saying that the battery does not charge. In which case, when the device is out of battery you should leave it charging for at least 10 minutes before attempting to turn it back on. If you did, however, wait that long and it still does not charge or turn on, then I don't know it could be a hardware problem with warranty now voided since your dismantled it.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Headfonia has a review of the E17 that has his own opinion on this matter.
> For headphone out of android device to aux in on E17 then yes. No for usb otg from android to e17. It only has type A usb to the mini or micro B connector used on E17


 
   
  I'm sorry but what do you mean by aux in? So i can use it with the cable it comes with without getting an OTG cable is that what you mean?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> I'm sorry but what do you mean by aux in? So i can use it with the cable it comes with without getting an OTG cable is that what you mean?


 
  There are two ways to use E17 with your Android device. 
  AUX in
  USB in
   
  USB in is only possible if you are supplying power to the E17 (usually through a powered USB hub or port) and then with an Android device that NOT ONLY has USB OTG support but also a OS that can utilize it well. This will basically not be used so you don't need to care about it. The current possible way to get it to work more or less involves so many wires that you will get a headache. This will bypass the amp and headphone out circuitry of your Android device and will soley use the DAC and amps of the E17
   
  AUX in. Most Android devices do not have a line out. Yours probably doesn't. That means you will be plugging the 3.5mm transfer cable into your android devices headphone out and then into the E17's AUX in. This will utilize the amps of both the E17 and your device. The DAC used will be your android devices. E17 DAC will not be active here.


----------



## Clue?!

Just bought the E17 a couple days ago...would I regret this decision since the E07K is coming out soon? Or is there not much difference between the 2? Using IEM's btw...


----------



## jasonb

E17 is still a bit better.
  Quote: 





clue?! said:


> Just bought the E17 a couple days ago...would I regret this decision since the E07K is coming out soon? Or is there not much difference between the 2? Using IEM's btw...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





clue?! said:


> Just bought the E17 a couple days ago...would I regret this decision since the E07K is coming out soon? Or is there not much difference between the 2? Using IEM's btw...


 
  E07K is not a unit that should be better than E17. I no longer have the E17 but the E07K doesn't have the current for some harder to drive headphones at my preferred listening volumes.
   
  It depends on what you want. 
   
  For me, I noticed that the E07K exhibits noise on my non sensitive nor low impendence IEM's which may be a problem for IEM users


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> I'm sorry but what do you mean by aux in? So i can use it with the cable it comes with without getting an OTG cable is that what you mean?


 

 Did you look @ the photo in the OP I told you to a bunch of posts up?  See that short cable w/the two right-angle connectors?  Android headphone out to the E17 AUX in.


----------



## bowei006

m8o said:


> Did you look @ the photo in the OP I told you to a bunch of posts up?  See that short cable w/the two right-angle connectors?  Android headphone out to the E17 AUX in.


I love to help but some very basic questions that are the basis of a product do get old after a while. So yes.


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I love to help but some very basic questions that are the basis of a product do get old after a while. So yes.


 
   
  But I quoted *McNuggetsPie* and was replying to _him_ ... I know _you_ know it.    And yes, I understand the sentiment of the 1st sentence.


----------



## kalbee

clue?! said:


> Just bought the E17 a couple days ago...would I regret this decision since the E07K is coming out soon? Or is there not much difference between the 2? Using IEM's btw...



The E07k's functions and versatility caught up a bit to the E17 but still the internals are not all the same. E17 is still more versatile (in terms of variety of supported inputs) AFAIK.
The amp section is not the same either.



m8o said:


> But I quoted *McNuggetsPie* and was replying to _him_ ... I know _you_ know it.    And yes, I understand the sentiment of the 1st sentence.



The panda will do this very often  He scans too fast and presses reply without re-reading.


----------



## bowei006

m8o said:


> But I quoted *McNuggetsPie* and was replying to _him_ ... I know _you_ know it.    And yes, I understand the sentiment of the 1st sentence.





kalbee said:


> The E07k's functions and versatility caught up a bit to the E17 but still the internals are not all the same. E17 is still more versatile (in terms of variety of supported inputs) AFAIK.
> The amp section is not the same either.
> The panda will do this very often  He scans too fast and presses reply without re-reading.




In reply to both of you it was on purpose. I was agreeing to your post and thus quoted it to add to it. 

As Head-Fis Official Panda, that is my final say on this matter ....
Lol


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> I love to help but some very basic questions that are the basis of a product do get old after a while. So yes.




Time to go read another thread? :rolleyes:


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Time to go read another thread?


 
  Nah, I enjoy this thread


----------



## jerg

Using the E17's to drive Hifiman HE500s lol. They do a surprisingly good job at +12 gain, and 30 vol.


----------



## m8o

I'm not totally impressed w/the E17 and my high impedance or inefficient phones -- DT880 & K501 respectively -- not quite enough gain even on +12db in every situation (and with a 1volt source) and I feel like making myself a little more deaf ... but boy does it shake my head when I drive my Focal Spirit One with it!  And the sound-stage and prat I get from my Marshal Majors with it was a surprise and eye opener.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> E07K is not a unit that should be better than E17. I no longer have the E17 but the *E07K doesn't have the current for some harder to drive headphones* at my preferred listening volumes.
> 
> It depends on what you want.
> 
> For me, I noticed that the E07K exhibits noise on my non sensitive nor low impendence IEM's which may be a problem for IEM users


 
   
  how?
   
  [size=small]E17: Output power: 250mW @ 16 Ohm / 215mW @ 32Ohm / 29mW @ 300 ohm[/size]
  [size=small]E07: Output power: [/size][size=small]250mw(16Ω); 36mw(300Ω)[/size]
   
  [size=small]supposed to be the same/better in theory, btw what headphones are you talking about?[/size]


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





m8o said:


> I'm not totally impressed w/the E17 and my high impedance or inefficient phones -- DT880 & K501 respectively -- not quite enough gain even on +12db in every situation (and with a 1volt source) and I feel like making myself a little more deaf ... but boy does it shake my head when I drive my Focal Spirit One with it!  And the sound-stage and prat I get from my Marshal Majors with it was a surprise and eye opener.


 
   
  you need our Mont Blanc(E12) which can push out almost 1.4W into a 32 ohms loader . a Monster Portable headphone amp consider the size of it.


----------



## yomomma1

I'm really impressed by this little machine. Baring in mind the cost and quality of the unit/accessories, I think it's up there with "bang for the buck" big hitters. I wouldn't say it's night and day from the E7 but it's very noticeable a pleasant improvement and it is defo a keeper. I've sold most of my cans now so am just running PSB's through it, it's not a particularly hard can to drive so can't comment on that. I will test with my friends 650's when he's back from the big apple. What I can comment on is pretty much what has already been said. Soundstage, presentation, separation, depth, all extended and improved and considerably so. It's obviously going to lack the "Ummph" that my LD SE has but I can harldy put that in my pocket now can I. A resounding YES from me for this ;little box of delights


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> how?
> 
> [size=small]E17: Output power: 250mW @ 16 Ohm / 215mW @ 32Ohm / 29mW @ 300 ohm[/size]
> [size=small]E07: Output power: [/size][size=small]250mw(16Ω); 36mw(300Ω)[/size]
> ...


 
  Those numbers are incorrect. The E17 numbers are correct but the E07K numbers written in the manual show it as having 20-30% more ouput wattage than the E17. FiiO told me that that was incorrect. They will have an update out soon for it.
   
  And kep in mind that I said current. Not power. They are different things. In all actuality, very high impedence 600+Ohm headphones actually require less power BUT more current.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Those numbers are incorrect. The E17 numbers are correct but the E07K numbers written in the manual show it as having 20-30% more ouput wattage than the E17. FiiO told me that that was incorrect. They will have an update out soon for it.
> 
> And kep in mind that I said current. Not power. They are different things. In all actuality, very high impedence 600+Ohm headphones actually require less power BUT more current.


 
  they are the same thing:
   
  P=I^2*Rload
   
  you want more current to drive your load(headphones) so it basically means more power


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> they are the same thing:
> 
> P=I^2*Rload
> 
> you want more current to drive your load(headphones) so it basically means more power


 
  Power (Watts) = Voltage(Volts) x Current (amperes)
   
  So while it is not a fully direct thing they of course do hold a very similar meaning. I think I should have said Voltage instead of Current but all is well.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance
   
   
   


> *Pros and cons of high impedance headphones:*
> 
> Headphone impedance is usually increased by thinner wire and most importantly more turns of wire in the voice coil. More turns or loops creates a larger field (area of magnetic influence). In layman's terms more magnetic force for the coil to move the diaphragm.  Thinner wire usually works out to a lighter, more responsive diaphragm. Depending on the headphone design, this may lead to more accurate response.
> The displacement (amount of movement) of the diaphragm (the part that vibrates to produce sound) can be better controlled via a more accurate flux (magnetic field to pull and push the diaphragm).
> ...


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> And kep in mind that I said current. Not power. They are different things. In all actuality, very high impedence 600+Ohm headphones actually require less power BUT more current.


 
   
  Do you know Ohm's law?  Because it dictates the opposite of what you just stated.  V (voltage) = I (current) * R (resistance)....and... P (power) = V (voltage) * I (current) = I * (I * R) using variable replacement replacing V with (I * R).
   
  Then further the law of electon flow is voltage (potential) is _provided_, and current is _drawn_ from the source based on however much is required & permitted given the resistance/impedance; with the exception that if the source is not capable of providing the current at the given voltage (i.e. source does not have the power capability), the voltage will be drawn down to the level where voltage * current = the maximum power that the source can provide.  So with V held constant, the higher the impedance for the same voltage, the _less _current is drawn. 
   
  What high impedance headphones _require_ categorically is higher _voltage_ to drive them, and less current will be drawn, for the same milliwatt power required input to them to produce the same decibel level out.  And _if_ a high impedance headphone requires high current, that implies [is a derivative way of saying] it requires _high power_.
   
  Now, apply that linear equation to headphone's audio output level, which is a function of power, not just voltage or current alone.  As stated just before, for a 32 ohm version of a headphone to produce the same Db level as the 600ohm version of the same headphone, they require the _same power input_ to them.  Let's imagine this headphone needs 100mw to produce a certain decibel level whatever that may be (I have no idea of what the real power required to produce that sound level, but using that as an example).  We know our Rs, and we know our P.  Our equivalent equation in terms of current and resistance cited on the 1st line of this post becomes:
   
  So where I1* V1 = 100mw (variable #1 representing the 600ohm headphone) and I2 * V2 = 100mw (variable #2 representing the 32 ohm headphone), using the variable replacement we have I1 * I1 * 600 = I2 * I2 * 32.  And that should clearly be self evident that to make both sides equal, i1, the current necessary to drive the 600 ohm load, is _far less_ than I2, the current necessary to drive the 32 ohm load.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





m8o said:


> Do you know Ohm's law?  Because it dictates the opposite of what you just stated.  V (voltage) = I (current) * R (resistance)....and... P (power) = V (voltage) * I (current) = I * (I * R) using variable replacement replacing V with (I * R).
> 
> Then further the law of electon flow is voltage (potential) is _provided_, and current is _drawn_ from the source based on however much is required & permitted given the resistance/impedance; with the exception that if the source is not capable of providing the current at the given voltage (i.e. source does not have the power capability), the voltage will be drawn down to the level where voltage * current = the maximum power that the source can provide.  So with V held constant, the higher the impedance for the same voltage, the _less _current is drawn.
> 
> ...


 
  I will guess that the 10 seconds it took me to write my responses before resulted in a confusion.
   
  My point above was basically what your last sentence stated but without all the math.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





m8o said:


> Do you know Ohm's law?  Because it dictates the opposite of what you just stated.  V (voltage) = I (current) * R (resistance)....and... P (power) = V (voltage) * I (current) = I * (I * R) using variable replacement replacing V with (I * R).
> 
> Then further the law of electon flow is voltage (potential) is _provided_, and current is _drawn_ from the source based on however much is required & permitted given the resistance/impedance; with the exception that if the source is not capable of providing the current at the given voltage (i.e. source does not have the power capability), the voltage will be drawn down to the level where voltage * current = the maximum power that the source can provide.  So with V held constant, the higher the impedance for the same voltage, the _less _current is drawn.
> 
> ...


 
   
  exactly what I thought when Bowie was complaining about the current, that post should be stuck on to the headphone impedance thread


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> exactly what I thought when Bowie was complaining about the current, that post should be stuck on to the headphone impedance thread


 
  Sorry about that. Going back and re reading my lesson on impedance's and what not it seems I confused a few terms.
   
  Here is my friend's explanation of it if anyone is curious:
   
   
  Quote:Borisu 





> Say you have 2 headphones, one with 32Ω impedance and the other with 300Ω impedance.
> Assume both require 1mW for listening levels (which is quite high) and constant impedance for all frequencies.
> The the 32Ω and 300Ω phones will need (0.18V, 5.6mA) and (0.55V, 0.18mA) respectively.
> So the question is if the amp performs better outputting more current or higher voltage swing.
> ...


----------



## quigley0

Are there any fake e17's? I got mine in and it seems that the security sticker was removed (the glue is still there). If there are fakes, does anyone have compare photos? It was ordered from Amazon, but the place isn't on the blacklist. Everything seems to work really well. I have noticed that others have said they are able to go into the system menu to check the "life", but i dont seem to have that option (see number of hours used).


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





quigley0 said:


> Are there any fake e17's? I got mine in and it seems that the security sticker was removed (the glue is still there). If there are fakes, does anyone have compare photos? It was ordered from Amazon, but the place isn't on the blacklist. Everything seems to work really well. *I have noticed that others have said they are able to go into the system menu to check the "life", but i dont seem to have that option (see number of hours used).*


 
   
  This feature has been removed on the latest firmware. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





quigley0 said:


> Are there any fake e17's? I got mine in and it seems that the security sticker was removed (the glue is still there). If there are fakes, does anyone have compare photos? It was ordered from Amazon, but the place isn't on the blacklist. Everything seems to work really well. I have noticed that others have said they are able to go into the system menu to check the "life", but i dont seem to have that option (see number of hours used).


 
  Last I heard, James said that there have been no sightings yet but you should still buy from Authorized dealer. Why? because they for the majority of the time cost less than the ebay ones.
   
  Why would sticker be gone? Who did you buy it from? Used?
   
  Like jason said, that feature on "life" has been removed from E17 due to some users thinking that their E17 has been used when they first get it. The run time that was there records every second that the device is on so some users might have just "used" it for like 2 hours and then come back to see a run time of 17 hours and be very confused. That is why FiiO reported that they took it out. But weirdly enough, it is back in the E07K.


----------



## JamesFiiO

About the playtime , we need to  burn-in each E07K/E17/E12 and other amp for a whole charging circulation, to check out any unit may have problem about battery, it means 
   
  that it will make our customer worry about it is not a fresh new unit from the playtime if we don't remove it. but for E07K, there are some units have not remove this features from
   
  the firmware.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> About the playtime , we need to  burn-in each E07K/E17/E12 and other amp for a whole charging circulation, to check out any unit may have problem about battery, it means
> 
> that it will make our customer worry about it is not a fresh new unit from the playtime if we don't remove it. but for E07K, there are some units have not remove this features from
> 
> the firmware.


 
  I am just a bit curious as to why you guys brought it back in E07K if it caused a few problem with customers worrying?


----------



## quigley0

bowei006 said:


> Last I heard, James said that there have been no sightings yet but you should still buy from Authorized dealer. Why? because they for the majority of the time cost less than the ebay ones.
> 
> Why would sticker be gone? Who did you buy it from? Used?
> 
> Like jason said, that feature on "life" has been removed from E17 due to some users thinking that their E17 has been used when they first get it. The run time that was there records every second that the device is on so some users might have just "used" it for like 2 hours and then come back to see a run time of 17 hours and be very confused. That is why FiiO reported that they took it out. But weirdly enough, it is back in the E07K.




I had this posted in another thread, and the FIIO rep in the thread had stated that some unauthorized sellers will remove the sticker to hide their supplier. (I think that was the Gist of it). It seems that it is legit.

Now, that said, I am absolutely loving the E17. I really hope that because i bought it from an unauthorized dealer( i had no idea there was such a pervasive problem) that it means that FIIO won't see the money, because it is worth every penny. My wife is getting me the E09K for Christmas (I told her to get it from http://www.miccastore.com/), but I really am not sure if I will need it. I have two sets of headphones, a KRK KNS-8400 and a Grado 325i set. I spent two days using the KRK's, and for me it seems that the 6db gain works really well. I get no hiss even when i put it on 12db gain, however i don't really see an advantage for using the 12db, so the 6db works well. I did find that it seemed to make the sound a bit "brighter" then my old DAC (which was a Lexicon iOnix U22). 

Windows 8 had no issues detecting the E17 (although it does show as SPIDF instead of USB, but it does say 'E17'.). Spotify worked great, and the few tracks that i have that are 24/96 played perfectly using VLC, and sounded great. Looking forward to plugging the Grado's in.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> Those numbers are incorrect. The E17 numbers are correct but the E07K numbers written in the manual show it as having 20-30% more ouput wattage than the E17. FiiO told me that that was incorrect. They will have an update out soon for it.
> 
> And kep in mind that I said current. Not power. They are different things. In all actuality, very high impedence 600+Ohm headphones actually require less power BUT more current.




All else being equal, 600 Ohm headphones will require just as much power as 60 Ohm headphones.

But the 600 Ohm headphones will require a bit more voltage and a bit less current.

The 60 Ohm headphones will require a bit more current and a bit less voltage

Edit: never mind, looks like this was clarified a few posts ago.....


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> All else being equal, 600 Ohm headphones will require just as much power as 60 Ohm headphones.
> But the 600 Ohm headphones will require a bit more voltage and a bit less current.
> The 60 Ohm headphones will require a bit more current and a bit less voltage
> Edit: never mind, looks like this was clarified a few posts ago.....


 
  Yeah, I got my voltage and current mixed up. I don't go into sound science too much anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have information on the max output voltage and max output current for the E17 and E07K but I am not sure if they want to release it yet. They are very similar with the E17 having a bit more output current and output voltage. 
   
  I was told the E07K has about half the power of the E17 but their output power and max output current and voltage don't seem to show that.


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> you need our Mont Blanc(E12) which can push out almost 1.4W into a 32 ohms loader . a Monster Portable headphone amp consider the size of it.


 
   
  I don't know how I missed this reply; sorry.  I wasn't aware of that model; ah, I see it's upcoming.  Don't get me wrong, I'm quite satisfied w/the E17.  It's a really great amp in so many ways.  In addition I really do enjoy it with my higher impedance headphones in normal situations; especially with TV and my DT880.  It's just that when I have the combination of a input that's only 1V max (cable box out), and I want it quite loud (some live musical performance on TV), it's then that it's not quite up to the task.  But great to know about that E12 coming out!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





m8o said:


> I don't know how I missed this reply; sorry.  I wasn't aware of that model; ah, I see it's upcoming.  Don't get me wrong, I'm quite satisfied w/the E17.  It's a really great amp in so many ways.  In addition I really do enjoy it with my higher impedance headphones in normal situations; especially with TV and my DT880.  It's just that when I have the combination of a input that's only 1V max (cable box out), and I want it quite loud (some live musical performance on TV), it's then that it's not quite up to the task.  But great to know about that E12 coming out!


 
  limited selling of it will start next month. Initial batches have been said to be small. They may allow pre orders if the idea is popular enough for those that want it.
  That's what FiiO said in the E12 thread in case you wanted some more info


----------



## al200

I did a quick search of this thread, but haven't found any answers to my problem (may have missed it). 
  I bought a E17 off ebay recently (didn't consider authorized resellers :S, should have searched staticice)
   
  Nevertheless, just yesterday it completely died. There is no red light when charging, and it will only turn on momentarily to flash the low battery message when plugged into an electricity source or shortly after disconnecting it (ie. after a few hours, the it won't turn on at all).
   
  Would I be correct in thinking this is a broken battery? If so, what are the avenues to get it fixed?
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> Yeah, I got my voltage and current mixed up. I don't go into sound science too much anymore h34r:
> 
> I have information on the max output voltage and max output current for the E17 and E07K but I am not sure if they want to release it yet. They are very similar with the E17 having a bit more output current and output voltage.
> 
> I was told the E07K has about half the power of the E17 but their output power and max output current and voltage don't seem to show that.




I try and avoid the Sound Science Forum!


----------



## bowei006

al200 said:


> I did a quick search of this thread, but haven't found any answers to my problem (may have missed it).
> I bought a E17 off ebay recently (didn't consider authorized resellers :S, should have searched staticice)
> 
> Nevertheless, just yesterday it completely died. There is no red light when charging, and it will only turn on momentarily to flash the low battery message when plugged into an electricity source or shortly after disconnecting it (ie. after a few hours, the it won't turn on at all).
> ...



It may be that your mode of charging it is incorrect? What country are you in? Do you use laptop or wall adapter to charge?
If you are inputting incorrect charge the power management(probably is one) will not allow it to be use to protect unit.

Otherwise it may just be defective battery. I have a how to use vid on youtube, see if the menu matches mine. Some small changes have been made like no run time indicator in new ones.

No fake of e17 detected yet.

Either return to seller you buy from if there is seller or site warranty. If all else fails, you may need to send to fiio.

Contact fiio support




chris j said:


> I try and avoid the Sound Science Forum!


I avoid it now as they are such lengthy reads based on each persons interpretation of a study


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yeah, I got my voltage and current mixed up. I don't go into sound science too much anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Man,  I would love to see those current and voltage numbers!
   
  I'm trying to see if the E17 will drive a pair of AKG K1000?
  Do you think I am asking too much?
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I avoid it now as they are such lengthy reads based on each persons interpretation of a study


 
   
  That actually makes sense!
  I would agree with that!
  Problem is, too many guys on the Science Fiction Forum seem to think their interpretation is *The One And Only Interpretation*.  I wonder if they are all religious talk show hosts in there spare time?


----------



## yomomma1

I've only just got the friggin E17, now I want to know all about this E12!!! Will this hobby ever give my wallet a break?????


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> Man,  I would love to see those current and voltage numbers!
> 
> I'm trying to see if the E17 will drive a pair of AKG K1000?
> Do you think I am asking too much?
> ...



It will be released soon on a site update.

Haha that is pretty funny but yes. Scientific journal updates need to be with objective stuff by interpreation is diff



yomomma1 said:


> I've only just got the friggin E17, now I want to know all about this E12!!! Will this hobby ever give my wallet a break?????


----------



## GSARider

yomomma1 said:


> I've only just got the friggin E17, now I want to know all about this E12!!! Will this hobby ever give my wallet a break?????




Not if you keep reading the forum... it's cost me around £1800 so far....


----------



## l veracity l

I just got my e17 and it is wicked! Opens my srh840's so much! One little problem I have is with the headphone output jack though. It seems like my headphones can't fit in all the way. It goes in to get the signal, but it doesn't click in place so when I move around it wiggles out a little bit and loses the connection. Is this normal?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





l veracity l said:


> I just got my e17 and it is wicked! Opens my srh840's so much! One little problem I have is with the headphone output jack though. It seems like my headphones can't fit in all the way. It goes in to get the signal, but it doesn't click in place so when I move around it wiggles out a little bit and loses the connection. Is this normal?


 
  I don't know about clicking into place though? It depends, the jack should go all the way to the bottom


----------



## l veracity l

yah it feels like its at the bottom of the Fiio, but the hole seems kind of shallow because when I plug the headphones into my iPod it goes in further and clicks in. idk maybe it's just these headphones...


----------



## wilflare

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Hey everyone i just wanted to share my new found experience with the E17 again.
> 
> Up until now (i've had the E17 since day 1) i've only used this little big boy as a DAC (docked on my E9) to go with my EF5. I'm totally happy with what i have right now but i was curious as to what a full sized DAC could do to bring out my EF-5 and DT990/K702 so i decided to post a listing. I didn't get any responses for the first few days and within those days i managed to pick up a decent optical cable from a buddy of mine. Then it hit me...while i was playing Uncharted 3 on my PS3 through my wireless sony headphones (they sound like crap but i never really cared how detailed the sound could be when i game) I had remembered that the PS3 has an optical input. So hey why the heck not...i plugged in the optical cable from the PS3 to the E17 docked on my E9. I started the game (uncharted 3) and i didn't notice anything too special (still on start screen) then when i was actually in the game...this is when EVERYTHING changed. At first he spoke and i could hear him loud and clear and when i started moving the assisting characters followed behind me and when they said something i honestly thought someone was right behind me speaking to me and it took me by surprise and i actually turned around to check but only realized it was the awesome sound stage. I was so blown away by how detailed it was...as the side characters spoke i turned my character around in circles and i kid you not...the voices were spiraling in a 360 degree motion around my head. Every step i took, every step the side characters took i knew exactly where they were whether they were to my left, my right, on top, below...it's just overwhelming how much your gaming experience can improve. I honestly felt like i was drake himself when i played uncharted 3. In the end i decided to keep my E17 =).
> 
> I've shown you guys my setup before but i've made some small minor changes. My only  gripe (this is just being REALLY REALLY picky and i have no problem with this) is that i can't use the USB and Optical function simultaneously so i can game and use my computer at the same time. But hey i'm still happy regardless.


 
   
  sorry to quote such a lengthy (and old) post.
  after connecting the PS3 and E17, which headphones did you use? Was it still the Sony Wireless Headset?


----------



## jasonb

I dont want to tell you to force it in there, but I dont think you have it inserted all the way in. The E17 jacks are quite tight. It is a very solid tight click when it's fully inserted. 
  Quote: 





l veracity l said:


> yah it feels like its at the bottom of the Fiio, but the hole seems kind of shallow because when I plug the headphones into my iPod it goes in further and clicks in. idk maybe it's just these headphones...


----------



## m8o

Too bad that can't be said for my Aux/Line-In connector.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





m8o said:


> Too bad that can't be said for my Aux/Line-In connector.


 
  Some E17 jacks are tight and others aren't. FiiO noticed that this was a problem which many had problems with so they set aside $10,000 USD( a lot for Chinese company) to fix the jack issue. And they did. The new E07K uses FiiO's new designed and manufacturered TRS 3.5mm stereo design. Very tight and nice. 
  I didn't have any problems with the E17 but the jacks on the E07K just feel really nice.


----------



## JamesFiiO

our new official website just launch , you can find lots of detail specification of our products, I can say that we may the only brand who release so many detail about the products, any advice please send to twitter@fiio.com.cn so we can keep improving the website in the future.
   
  BTW, all the specification is done by AP and there may have some different with other RMAA result because the test condition is different. so just for reference and we will try to do best. hope it can help you. and thank for the hard work of our colleagues. they just done a great
   
  jobs. and we will try to become a brand/company who not only provide the best products but also the best service, and I am very proud that we have more than 9,000 fans on facebook page www.facebook.com/FiiOAUDIO.  lol, if anything we can do and not beyond our ability,
   
  we will not hesitate to do to satisfy our customers.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> our new official website just launch , you can find lots of detail specification of our products, I can say that we may the only brand who release so many detail about the products, any advice please send to twitter@fiio.com.cn so we can keep improving the website in the future.
> 
> BTW, all the specification is done by AP and there may have some different with other RMAA result because the test condition is different. so just for reference and we will try to do best. hope it can help you. and thank for the hard work of our colleagues. they just done a great
> 
> ...


 
  Great! 
   
  I find the products drop down menu to be very cramped.
   
  Well, I guess you guys can now see the output voltages and currents for yourself
   
  James, you said that E07K has half the power of the E17 but I can not see that from the specs listed, can you explain? I guess it does matter to the E17 so it is on topic.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Some E17 jacks are tight and others aren't. FiiO noticed that this was a problem which many had problems with so they set aside $10,000 USD( a lot for Chinese company) to fix the jack issue. And they did. The new E07K uses FiiO's new designed and manufacturered TRS 3.5mm stereo design. Very tight and nice.
> I didn't have any problems with the E17 but the jacks on the E07K just feel really nice.


 
   
  There are very few FiiO's old products will have problem about the headphone jack, but it is not a very big quality issues so we have to recall all our products, it means about 1,000,000 units, so we will solve the problem by better warranty service. 
   
  just hope our customer don't worry about that, nothing to worry because it is happened in few unit or sometimes it is because customer have not bundle it correctly or use some very big and heavy headphone plug.
   
  Anyway, we will keep improving the quality control and changing our suppliers and parts constantly.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Great!
> 
> I find the products drop down menu to be very cramped.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, it is my mistake.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> There are very few FiiO's old products will have problem about the headphone jack, but it is not a very big quality issues so we have to recall all our products, it means about 1,000,000 units, so we will solve the problem by better warranty service.
> 
> just hope our customer don't worry about that, nothing to worry because it is happened in few unit or sometimes it is because customer have not bundle it correctly or use some very big and heavy headphone plug.
> 
> Anyway, we will keep improving the quality control and changing ur suppliers and parts constantly.


 
  I hope you mean that you DON'T have to recall 1 million units lol!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  We do hear of jack issues in the E17 thread. I'll put up a page on near complete how to get help or fix FiiO issues or what to do when I write up my E07K review. I hope it will reduce questions and also streamline everything.
   
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Sorry, it is my mistake.


 
  Thank you very much. From what I can see, E17 has just slightly more voltage and current than E07K. Very nice actually.


----------



## l veracity l

Yah it was my mistake. It felt solid down there and when I forced it a bit and it didn't go in, I didn't want to wreck anything but i just needed to push a bit harder


----------



## jasonb

Sometimes you just gotta force it when it doesn't want to simply slide in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





l veracity l said:


> Yah it was my mistake. It felt solid down there and when I forced it a bit and it didn't go in, I didn't want to wreck anything but i just needed to push a bit harder


----------



## Prakhar

Teehee... Thats what she said... xD


----------



## Prakhar

Double...


----------



## Prakhar

Triple...


----------



## PsychShaman

Hey guys, I've been using the E17 for a couple weeks now, and I've been experiencing a couple issues that I can't seem to get rid of.  For background purposes, I'm using these with ATH-M50s, so I keep the volume pretty low since these do not require an amp.
   
  1. If I leave my computer and the E17 on for a few days, it will display a line across the middle of the screen and it will not work properly.  I have to reset the E17 when this happens, it's not a huge deal, but the next one is.
  2.  The longer I have the E17 on, the more distorted it gets.  At work throughout the day, the E17 will start out fine, then I start to hear some minor distortion, then it's really noticeable and I have to turn it off and back on.  I've tried unplugging the E17 and plugging it back in, only turning it off and on gets rid of the distortion.  I've also plugged my headphones directly into the computer, heard no distortion, plugged headphones back into E17, and there's distortion.  The distortion is in the mid-high range if that helps.  Oh, and I'm also using the included USB cable.
   
  Do I have a defective unit?  Any ideas on how to fix these problems?


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





psychshaman said:


> Hey guys, I've been using the E17 for a couple weeks now, and I've been experiencing a couple issues that I can't seem to get rid of.  For background purposes, I'm using these with ATH-M50s, so I keep the volume pretty low since these do not require an amp.
> 
> 1. If I leave my computer and the E17 on for a few days, it will display a line across the middle of the screen and it will not work properly.  I have to reset the E17 when this happens, it's not a huge deal, but the next one is.
> 2.  The longer I have the E17 on, the more distorted it gets.  At work throughout the day, the E17 will start out fine, then I start to hear some minor distortion, then it's really noticeable and I have to turn it off and back on.  I've tried unplugging the E17 and plugging it back in, only turning it off and on gets rid of the distortion.  I've also plugged my headphones directly into the computer, heard no distortion, plugged headphones back into E17, and there's distortion.  The distortion is in the mid-high range if that helps.  Oh, and I'm also using the included USB cable.
> ...


 
   
  not sure what the issue is, but that definitely is not normal. I've used mine for probably about 3 or 4 hours straight before and never experienced this.


----------



## kalbee

psychshaman said:


> Hey guys, I've been using the E17 for a couple weeks now, and I've been experiencing a couple issues that I can't seem to get rid of.  For background purposes, I'm using these with ATH-M50s, so I keep the volume pretty low since these do not require an amp.
> 
> 1. If I leave my computer and the E17 on for a few days, it will display a line across the middle of the screen and it will not work properly.  I have to reset the E17 when this happens, it's not a huge deal, but the next one is.
> 2.  The longer I have the E17 on, the more distorted it gets.  At work throughout the day, the E17 will start out fine, then I start to hear some minor distortion, then it's really noticeable and I have to turn it off and back on.  I've tried unplugging the E17 and plugging it back in, only turning it off and on gets rid of the distortion.  I've also plugged my headphones directly into the computer, heard no distortion, plugged headphones back into E17, and there's distortion.  The distortion is in the mid-high range if that helps.  Oh, and I'm also using the included USB cable.
> ...



Never heard of the problems you are facing :O
Though frankly I skipped a few thousand posts before I came back.

#1 definitely not normal.

For #2... I had a short period with similar experience. It was after I just installed Win8. While everyone was reporting no driver conflicts, mine was distorting practically everything, in a very serious way. Lyrics become alien $p34k. It somehow fixed itself after a while of never-plugging-into-my-Win8-system-again.
So if there is such possibility, can you also try on another system/computer to determine if it would be some odd driver conflict? might help in identifying the problem.


----------



## al200

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It may be that your mode of charging it is incorrect? What country are you in? Do you use laptop or wall adapter to charge?
> If you are inputting incorrect charge the power management(probably is one) will not allow it to be use to protect unit.
> Otherwise it may just be defective battery. I have a how to use vid on youtube, see if the menu matches mine. Some small changes have been made like no run time indicator in new ones.
> No fake of e17 detected yet.
> ...


 
  Ah thanks for the reply bowei,
  I've checked out your video, and I'm fairly sure I have a new version of the E17 (without run time). I can't be sure since it won't turn on. 
  I'm currently in Australia, but I doubt the charge is the problem, since it had been functioning correctly and recharging for a month or two. 
  Could the lack of a red light while charging mean something other than the battery eg. the circuit board or usb port being fried?
  Also, sometimes while plugging in the usb cable, the red light flashes. I don't think it is a contact issue with the plug, since there I cannot make the light stay on by moving the plug.


----------



## catspaw

Quote: 





psychshaman said:


> Hey guys, I've been using the E17 for a couple weeks now, and I've been experiencing a couple issues that I can't seem to get rid of.  For background purposes, I'm using these with ATH-M50s, so I keep the volume pretty low since these do not require an amp.
> 
> 1. If I leave my computer and the E17 on for a few days, it will display a line across the middle of the screen and it will not work properly.  I have to reset the E17 when this happens, it's not a huge deal, but the next one is.
> 2.  The longer I have the E17 on, the more distorted it gets.  At work throughout the day, the E17 will start out fine, then I start to hear some minor distortion, then it's really noticeable and I have to turn it off and back on.  I've tried unplugging the E17 and plugging it back in, only turning it off and on gets rid of the distortion.  I've also plugged my headphones directly into the computer, heard no distortion, plugged headphones back into E17, and there's distortion.  The distortion is in the mid-high range if that helps.  Oh, and I'm also using the included USB cable.
> ...


 
   
   
  I Think there is a chance your PC has a driver issue. Did this start right after you got the Fiio or after a few days/weeks of usage?
   
  My Fiio has for example a diffrent issue (now i have to plug in before i turn on PC or some programs wont have sound runing), but i know its related to some driver since i had nothing like that when i first pluged the Fiio in.
  For example, when i just bought it, if i was watching a stream, if I changed from the laptop sound to the Fiio, i only had to refresh the stream for sound to load properly. Now i have to restart the PC >D.
   
  Also, before i could have 2 volums working at the same time (Fiio and laptop speakers both had a volume bar in windows), now i only get one.
   
  These things i belive have been disscuesd, and it seems removing the fiio driver from windows and pluging it again solves the problem.
   
  The secondary part would be to know if its not your soundcard that creates this problem. If problem persists, and you still have issues with the sound after some time, i would suggest to:
   
  First, disable sound card drivers (might be enought).
  Second, uninstall soundcard drivers, install clean soundcard drivers, then install fiio drivers ( by just plugin in the Fiio).
  If none of those work, id try with no scoud card drivers to rule out a driver conflict, and finally, see if there is a incompatibility with the GPU audio driver (if applicable).
   
  Its a lot of work but it might be enought to fix your problem.


----------



## catspaw

Ah, i forgot, did you try to use something like an MP3 player with the AUX-IN to confirm that the distorsiion is created by the Fiio? If so, i think you might have gotten unlucky with your unit.


----------



## yomomma1

It must be something OBVIOUS but alas I am missing it! I want to try my E17 on my macbook pro using spdif. How do I do this? I have been through the midi and sound settings but to no avail. I have switched to "OPT" on E17 etc tec... Has anyone else had same problem? It's a 2009/2010 macbook pro. I know I'll be embarased by the answer but I'm not spending hrs figuring out just to save face! Help me out peeps!


----------



## bowei006

yomomma1 said:


> It must be something OBVIOUS but alas I am missing it! I want to try my E17 on my macbook pro using spdif. How do I do this? I have been through the midi and sound settings but to no avail. I have switched to "OPT" on E17 etc tec... Has anyone else had same problem? It's a 2009/2010 macbook pro. I know I'll be embarased by the answer but I'm not spending hrs figuring out just to save face! Help me out peeps!


You plug a mini to 3.5mm plug into your MBP. And then into the E17


----------



## yomomma1

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You plug a mini to 3.5mm plug into your MBP. And then into the E17


 

 Genius! And here's me thinking they would just connect due to it nearly being baby Jebus' birthday!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





yomomma1 said:


> Genius! And here's me thinking they would just connect due to it nearly being baby Jebus' birthday!


 
  Duh. Thou shalt be POWER TO MY E17! By my commandement! Thou shalt work!!!!....
   
  *chirp chirp*


----------



## yomomma1

bowei006 said:


> Duh. Thou shalt be POWER TO MY E17! By my commandement! Thou shalt work!!!!....
> 
> *chirp chirp*




Ha ha....have you tried turning it off and on again?

 I was wanting a tad more of an in depth answer but may be I should've told you what I have tried first ;-D

I figured it in the end, needed to set up a new audio device. 

LET THERE BE SOUND!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





yomomma1 said:


> Ha ha....have you tried turning it off and on again?
> I was wanting a tad more of an in depth answer but may be I should've told you what I have tried first ;-D
> I figured it in the end, needed to set up a new audio device.
> LET THERE BE SOUND!


 
  Yes you may need to set as default playback device on OSX or something.
   
  You need the adapter the E17 comes with and an optical cable.


----------



## yomomma1

bowei006 said:


> Yes you may need to set as default playback device on OSX or something.
> 
> You need the adapter the E17 comes with and an optical cable.




Yeah I nicked the optical off my Audinst. I was impressed with the PSB's through the E17 on USB, I am now more impressed with the set up using optical. Can't wait for time off over Xmas for some serious listening sessions!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> our new official website just launch , you can find lots of detail specification of our products, I can say that we may the only brand who release so many detail about the products, any advice please send to twitter@fiio.com.cn so we can keep improving the website in the future.
> 
> BTW, all the specification is done by AP and there may have some different with other RMAA result because the test condition is different. so just for reference and we will try to do best. hope it can help you. and thank for the hard work of our colleagues. they just done a great
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wierd.
  Some numbers don't make sense, for example:
   
  E10 power rating is 150mW into 32 Ohms,  but this doesn't agree with the 40 mA maximum output current.
  40 mA = 50 mW @ 32 Ohms
   
  Going by some of the other numbers, the main reason to buy an E17 is for the features, power rating of E17 is very similar to E11 and E07K.    I'm just sayin'.
  BTW, looks like I can drive my DT880 600 Ohms with an E09K.  very cool!


----------



## kalbee

chris j said:


> Wierd.
> Some numbers don't make sense, for example:
> 
> E10 power rating is 150mW into 32 Ohms,  but this doesn't agree with the 40 mA maximum output current.
> ...



Power rating of amps doesn't determine everything AFAIK.
But if any case, that's what the E09K is for xP high impedance cans.


----------



## Chris J

kalbee said:


> Power rating of amps doesn't determine everything AFAIK.
> But if any case, that's what the E09K is for xP high impedance cans.




You could argue that the E09k was also designed for current hungry low impedance 'phones or low efficiency 'phones in general.


----------



## kalbee

chris j said:


> You could argue that the E09k was also designed for current hungry low impedance 'phones or low efficiency 'phones in general.



But I won't because you're also right.


----------



## Chris J

kalbee said:


> But I won't because you're also right.




Maybe yes, maybe no, but Currawong is watching!


----------



## bowei006

You say something about Currawong? He is watching you right now.


----------



## jasonb

What is the whole currawong thing?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> What is the whole currawong thing?


 
  We are TMAC. Themed Monthly Avatar Comittee. We formulate a group avatar each month. This month it is Currawong December. A currawong is a bird by the way. Next month is Jude January where we will shop Jude onto posters
  sample:
  http://www.head-fi.org/image/id/3619716/width/900/height/900/flags/LL
   
  Anyway, we are off topic.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Up to how many ohms headphones can it drive? It is enough for Q701?


----------



## yomomma1

Yeah get back on track! :-D

So E17 or E07K?

Discuss.......


----------



## Trae

Schiit Mangi+Modi.


----------



## bowei006

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Up to how many ohms headphones can it drive? It is enough for Q701?



It depends on each person. I needed near full power at 12dB gain and 30+ volume while others could do 6dB gain at 20 volume

If you listen loud, maybe not.




yomomma1 said:


> Yeah get back on track! :-D
> So E17 or E07K?
> Discuss.......




E07K uses Max amp, same DAC, and usb reveiver(i believe). It has about the same power(current and voltage and W) output as the E17. It also features dual simualtaneous headphone out sockets that E17 not have. It has new trs sockets


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It depends on each person. I needed near full power at 12dB gain and 30+ volume while others could do 6dB gain at 20 volume
> If you listen loud, maybe not.


 
  What is gain? and does it bring good sound quality out of Q701?


----------



## yomomma1

Does e07k have spdif out put then or just 2 HP out?


----------



## kalbee

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Up to how many ohms headphones can it drive? It is enough for Q701?





bowei006 said:


> It depends on each person. I needed near full power at 12dB gain and 30+ volume while others could do 6dB gain at 20 volume
> If you listen loud, maybe not.



Meanwhile I'm okay with it at 0 gain <<< 35 volume.



yomomma1 said:


> Does e07k have spdif out put then or just 2 HP out?



...
A quick peek at FiiO's website tells you it doesn't have spdif.


----------



## yomomma1

kalbee said:


> Meanwhile I'm okay with it at 0 gain <<< 35 volume.
> ...
> A quick peek at FiiO's website tells you it doesn't have spdif.




I daren't look at the Fiio site, I end up buying something! I am glad to know it doesn't have spdif and that the E17 does. I was thinking I'd made a huge mistake!


----------



## thehogester

Hey guys, I've found out I'm getting an e17 for Xmas. Knowing this I've ordered myself an L9 for use with my iPhone. Just wondering what connections are best for laptop. I have an older MacBook Pro, which can obviously take USB or spdif. I've not got much knowledge of digital audio connections, so I don't know which is best to use. I'm also planning on using the e17 with my Xbox and PS3, not sure whether I'd be better getting a shorter spdif cable and just setting the volume and sitting back on my sofa, or getting a longer run so I can have it by my side. Will a longer run of cable degrade the signal?

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## bowei006

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> What is gain? and does it bring good sound quality out of Q701?



More easily said, gain equals volume or power. My terms again may be weird for the power users but to beginners, think of it as hp.




yomomma1 said:


> Does e07k have spdif out put then or just 2 HP out?



No. No fiio device has spdif out at the moment i think. E17 has spdif in. E07K does not have spdif at all



kalbee said:


> Meanwhile I'm okay with it at 0 gain <<< 35 volume.
> ...
> A quick peek at FiiO's website tells you it doesn't have spdif.



Wow that is low



thehogester said:


> Hey guys, I've found out I'm getting an e17 for Xmas. Knowing this I've ordered myself an L9 for use with my iPhone. Just wondering what connections are best for laptop. I have an older MacBook Pro, which can obviously take USB or spdif. I've not got much knowledge of digital audio connections, so I don't know which is best to use. I'm also planning on using the e17 with my Xbox and PS3, not sure whether I'd be better getting a shorter spdif cable and just setting the volume and sitting back on my sofa, or getting a longer run so I can have it by my side. Will a longer run of cable degrade the signal?
> Thanks in advance for any help!



Who was thoughtful enough to know to buy an E17 as a gift?

It is up to you. All are fine. Spdif allows for 192 KHz and USB at 96KHz. If you dont have 192KHz files, just use USB as it is much much more convenient and you dont need to be careful with handling the cable.


----------



## thehogester

bowei006 said:


> Who was thoughtful enough to know to buy an E17 as a gift?
> It is up to you. All are fine. Spdif allows for 192 KHz and USB at 96KHz. If you dont have 192KHz files, just use USB as it is much much more convenient and you dont need to be careful with handling the cable.




My mom was clever enough to find my amazon wish list lol! She accidentally gave it away when I caught a glimpse of the delivery email. Surprise or not, I'm excited to get it. I can see it wrapped up right now actually haha!


----------



## yomomma1

How careful do you need to be when using spdif? Don't get me wrong, I don't use it to walk the dog but I don't treat it like it's made of egg shells either. Should I be?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





yomomma1 said:


> How careful do you need to be when using spdif? Don't get me wrong, I don't use it to walk the dog but I don't treat it like it's made of egg shells either. Should I be?


 
  The tips of the cables are sensitive to smudges. You can't see the smudges but finger oils, small fine dust particles and many things have an effect. Obviously because it is an optical format.
   
  The majority of optical toslink S/PDIF cables are very thin, this can be very easy to move around but can also bend. Bending is not a pro of toslink cables. They of course can be moved around and even slight angles work out. But don't do a heavy angle bend. There are thicker wires but with the light weight of the E17 attached to it, something like the Monoprice Fancy cable swings the E17 from side to side and can ultimatelyy swing your E17 off the table.


----------



## yomomma1

bowei006 said:


> The tips of the cables are sensitive to smudges. You can't see the smudges but finger oils, small fine dust particles and many things have an effect. Obviously because it is an optical format.
> 
> The majority of optical toslink S/PDIF cables are very thin, this can be very easy to move around but can also bend. Bending is not a pro of toslink cables. They of course can be moved around and even slight angles work out. But don't do a heavy angle bend. There are thicker wires but with the light weight of the E17 attached to it, something like the Monoprice Fancy cable swings the E17 from side to side and can ultimately swing your E17 off the table.




So would you recommend wiping the ends of cable with glass cleaner or vinegar or something of the like? It is a good cable, about twice the thickness of basic cable with good connectors and quite light. It was also only cheap.

Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





yomomma1 said:


> So would you recommend wiping the ends of cable with glass cleaner or vinegar or something of the like? It is a good cable, about twice the thickness of basic cable with good connectors and quite light. It was also only cheap.
> Thanks for the heads up.


 
  One does not simply clean a cable like that

   
   
   
   
  There are ways and they are availble online, but not touching them would be better than cleaning them in most cases. That is of course they don't fall in mud.
   
  Cleaning them leaves residue that the human eye can not see. The glass or clear part is very small and its clear making it harder for the already hard residue to be seen.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





yomomma1 said:


> How careful do you need to be when using spdif? Don't get me wrong, I don't use it to walk the dog but I don't treat it like it's made of egg shells either. Should I be?


 
  Don't touch the glass/plastic tip with your skin. If you must, do it with the back of your nail (after making sure it's decently clean). When not using the cables, make sure you put the cover back on. Well, for optical cables that is, they always come with caps/covers.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Up to how many ohms headphones can it drive? It is enough for Q701?


 
   
  Some say yes, and some say no. I say hell yes! I use my E17 with my Q701. I have the E17 set to medium gain, and I usually listen with the volume between 25-30 out of 60. Also, I use the +2 db bass boost most of the time as well, I will sometimes use the +4 bass boost when I use the Q701 for electronic music. So for me there is plenty of power on tap and then a whole bunch extra on top of that. Medium gain (with my source being my laptop via USB) with the volume around 25-30 gets me about 75-80 DB (c-weighted) on the Q701. 75-80 db is where I usually like to listen with headphones. It's loud enough not to be tiring, but still loud enough to not miss the low level detail in the music.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Not sure whether you guys can understand the content, but this is what I am working in . the sheet explain how to find an amp to drive a headphone depend on the impedance and the sensitivity .


----------



## jasonb

So it only takes .10MW to get to 96db on the Q701? One tenth of a MW to get to 96db? 
   
  What does peak voltage and max current mean in that chart?


----------



## JamesFiiO

as you can see from the content, the Q701 can output 120dB sound pressure when the input power is 32 mW . so E17 should drive it quite well, remember most mobile phone can only output 6 mw power.
   
  for some hard to drive headphone, we need to check the max output voltage and the current, you can see the specification from our website www.fiio.com.cn.
   
  The output power of E17 is 220mW at 32 ohms, so the power should be about 110mW at 64ohms, still bigger than 32mW. and the max peak output voltage of E17 is 7.3Vp-p , max output current is 80mA.
   
  So it should drive Q701 quite good. of course, it is just for reference, and this is just based on a person who have average hearing.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> as you can see from the content, the Q701 can output 120dB sound pressure when the input power is 32 mW . so E17 should drive it quite well, remember most mobile phone can only output 6 mw power.
> 
> for some hard to drive headphone, we need to check the max output voltage and the current, you can see the specification from our website www.fiio.com.cn.
> 
> ...


 
  What does the peak voltage and max current mean in that chart?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> So it only takes .10MW to get to 96db on the Q701? One tenth of a MW to get to 96db?
> 
> What does peak voltage and max current mean in that chart?


 
   
  Yes, it means 0.1mW can get to 96dB on Q701. but the impedance 62 ohms is tested in 1K hz, it will increase to about 100 ohms, see below. so the power demand C will be more reasonable.
   

   
   Since the power is calculated depend on impedance, so the best way is judged by the peak voltage ( for high impedance ) or max output current ( for low impedance ) .
   
  Do remember that high impedance headphones need high voltage, but low impedance headphone need more current.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, it means 0.1mW can get to 96dB on Q701. but the impedance 62 ohms is tested in 1K hz, it will increase to about 100 ohms, see below. so the power demand C will be more reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Still not understanding what the peak voltage column and the max current mean on that chart. Is it the voltage and current needed to get them to 120db?


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Still not understanding what the peak voltage column and the max current mean on that chart. Is it the voltage and current needed to get them to 120db?


 
   
  Bingo!
   
  BTW, I really need someone who has electronic background so he can help me explain it more detail to the reader. anybody help?


----------



## jasonb

I only listen at about 75-80db, so I'm really using very little power. Nice to know. How many MW does it take to get the Q701 to 80 DB?
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Bingo!
> 
> BTW, I really need someone who has electronic background so he can help me explain it more detail to the reader. anybody help?


----------



## JamesFiiO

jasonb said:


> I only listen at about 75-80db, so I'm really using very little power. Nice to know. How many MW does it take to get the Q701 to 80 DB?


how do you know you are listen at 75-80dB?


----------



## dsan

I got Fiio L7 line out adapter today from mp4nation.
   
  I connected L7 to E17 and it makes a very disturbing background hissing noise.
  I tried turning bypass on and off but no difference.
   
  It plays music fine but background hiss is very disturbing. Is there a solution?


----------



## dsan

Quote: 





dsan said:


> I got Fiio L7 line out adapter today from mp4nation.
> 
> I connected L7 to E17 and it makes a very disturbing background hissing noise.
> I tried turning bypass on and off but no difference.
> ...


 
   
   
   
  In addition, I can connect my headphone straight to line out port of L7 and it plays well.
  Is this normal? I thought line out was not suppose to output sound because it doesnt have a filter or amp (it does for e17 but I thought amp is bypassed when L7 is used)


----------



## bowei006

Even if it can get enough power isnt the end. I got a plateaud signal yesterday on very similarly powered E07K with Q701. It clipped and plateaud basically.


----------



## yomomma1

kalbee said:


> Don't touch the glass/plastic tip with your skin. If you must, do it with the back of your nail (after making sure it's decently clean). When not using the cables, make sure you put the cover back on. Well, for optical cables that is, they always come with caps/covers.


 
What about letting my cat lick it? Apparently they have very hygenic tongues! Or is it dogs?


----------



## Chris J

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Up to how many ohms headphones can it drive? It is enough for Q701?




You will have no trouble driving a pair of Q701 with an E17.
I normally leave the gain at 0 dB and turn the volume up and down, depending on the source and the music I am listening to.

I do not get good results driving my 600 Ohm Beyers wit the E17.


----------



## Chris J

​


jasonb said:


> What does the peak voltage and max current mean in that chart?




The voltage listed in those charts is Volts peak to peak.

Divide by 2 to get peak voltage.

Then divide by square root of 2 to get Volts rms, which is the number you are really looking for.

For E17: 7.3 Volts peak to peak works out to 2.58 Volts rms.

So what does this mean?
The Q701 requires 1 Volt rms for 105 dB SPL. Note: This is 16 mW.
2.58 V rms is 8.2 dB louder than 1 Volt.
Maximum SPL you can get from the Q701 driven from an E17 is 105 + 8.2 = 113 dB SPL per channel. 

So there is enough output Voltage available to drive a pair of Q701 to very loud volumes.

I am not sure if the maximum current on the charts is Amps peak or Amps rms.

Volts rms X Amps rms = Watts continuous. (some poeple erroneously refer to this as Watts rms).


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> One does not simply clean a cable like that
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Will The One Ring help us clean optical cables?

Or is this a skill even beyond the Power of the Elves?


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

.


----------



## Chris J

jasonb said:


> Still not understanding what the peak voltage column and the max current mean on that chart. Is it the voltage and current needed to get them to 120db?




Those numbers define the maximum voltage and current available from the various FiiO products.

If you need to kmow whether a particular FiiO product can drive your phones to a skull splitting 120 dB SPL, you also need either efficiency or sensitivity rating of your phones.


----------



## bowei006

ananalogspirit said:


> ALTHOUGH, the WM8740 just sonically performs better via SPDIF than USB, this has been noted by MANY users, so if you CAN, you MIGHT enjoy the SQ of your E17 a bit better via SPDIF. However, using it via USB and letting it sip voltage and constantly recharge is VERY convenient. Oh, yeah, SPDIF sounds better even with 44.1kHz Redbook files.



It depends if you can hear the difference. It is very hard too.



chris j said:


> Those numbers define the maximum voltage and current available from the various FiiO products.
> If you need to kmow whether a particular FiiO product can drive your phones to a skull splitting 120 dB SPL, you also need either efficiency or sensitivity rating of your phones.



It can be driven loud for me but it clipped a few times. For me


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Yes, it means 0.1mW can get to 96dB on Q701. but the impedance 62 ohms is tested in 1K hz, it will increase to about 100 ohms, see below. so the power demand C will be more reasonable.
> 
> 
> Since the power is calculated depend on impedance, so the best way is judged by the peak voltage ( for high impedance ) or max output current ( for low impedance ) .
> ...


 
   
  Those numbers don't look right to me.
   
  95 dB SPL from a Q701 works out to approx. 1.6 mW by my calculations.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





yomomma1 said:


> What about letting my cat lick it? Apparently they have very hygenic tongues! Or is it dogs?


 
  LOL hope you're not serious.
  Cats and dogs generally do not mix with cables to begin with.
   
  Unless you have a Blendtec blender. Let's not go there.
_Optical cat & dog smoke! don't breathe this!_


----------



## DanBa

The Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy S3 with USB Audio Recorder PRO can interwork with the FiiO E17 USB DAC/amp.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1020#post_8954935
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro
   
  music stored in Galaxy S3 > USB Audio Recorder PRO player > digital USB audio out >> "USB OTG" cable >> FiiO E17 >> headphones


----------



## redleo

Hi
 I'm newbie here and i bought from Amazon. Uk the FiiO E17 , but I have some doubts about the authenticity.
 In the back instead of saying E17, only says ALPEN, is there any difference?
 I do not see the serial number nowhere!
 From the pictures I have seen the SPDIF input is pink, has no color in mine.
 Will someone help me?
 Sorry for my poor english.
 Thank you in advance


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





redleo said:


> Hi
> I'm newbie here and i bought from Amazon. Uk the FiiO E17 , but I have some doubts about the authenticity.
> In the back instead of saying E17, only says ALPEN, is there any difference?
> I do not see the serial number nowhere!
> ...


 
  Somewhat. The first one or two batches say E17. The newer batches say Alpen. That's it.
   
  The serial number is on the box and the authentity number is on the box of NEWER units being sold. Demo unit has pink, regular have black.


----------



## redleo

Thanks!


----------



## jasonb

I have a sound level meter. I made a little cardboard baffle with a hole cut in it to stick the end of the meter through. The baffle seals the headphone pad so that I get an accurate reading. I have put on a song or two at the volume I normally listen at and then measured with the meter, and I get an average somewhere in between 75-80db c-weighted. 
  Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> how do you know you are listen at 75-80dB?


----------



## yomomma1

redleo said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> I'm newbie here and i bought from Amazon. Uk the FiiO E17 , but I have some doubts about the authenticity.
> ...




Mine is same dude, don't sweat it


----------



## ippudo

Hi, guys!
   
  I haven't posted on here before but have been reading this thread with interest, so much so that I just got the E17/E09K combo, which makes for a nice upgrade from my previous Behringer UCA222 soundcard, which I had connected to a solid state amp. My headphone is a Beyer DT880 (600 ohm), which went straight into the SS amp's headphone input.
   
  At the moment the E09 acts as a pre-amp for the SS amp, using an RCA connector cable from the PRE-AMP outs to the AUX ins of the SS amp and I still use the SS amp's headphone input. Not sure if this was answered elsewhere but I would like to use the E09's supposedly superior headphone input, without losing the SS amp's added amplification but, as a technophobe, I have no idea how to achieve this. My guess would be a second RCA connector cable via some adaptor style device, feeding the end signal  from the SS amp's AUX back to the E09. Is there a simple solution to this? Is it possible at all?
   
  Many thanks for your help!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





ippudo said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> I haven't posted on here before but have been reading this thread with interest, so much so that I just got the E17/E09K combo, which makes for a nice upgrade from my previous Behringer UCA222 soundcard, which I had connected to a solid state amp. My headphone is a Beyer DT880 (600 ohm), which went straight into the SS amp's headphone input.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, your post is confusing me!
  What kind of solid state amp are you using?
   
  Sounds like you DON'T what to use the headphone jack on the E09K? Or am I confused?
  Have you tried the headphone jack on the E09K?  It shouldn't have any trouble driving the 600 Ohm DT880s.
  That should be your simplest method.
   
  Anyway, you can either drive the DT880s from the headphone jack on your SS amp, or drive the phones from the headphone jack on the E09K.  You can't really do both at the same time. Or you wouldn't want to drive te headphone jack into another pre-amp. What would be the point?
   
  Signed,
  Confused.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ananalogspirit said:


> It I suppose depends on your SPDIF source. Mine is an Auzen X-Meridian 7.1 (1G) which is known to have great SPDIF out and DAC (nice AKM chips) / DSP (C-Media Oxygen), and rollable opamps (OPA627AU) in mine. (the opamps of course do not enter into the SPDIF equation, I was just elaborating on my source for the other readers).
> 
> In my experience with the WM8740 based solutions, iBasso D10 Cobra DAC/Amp, FiiO E17 DAC/Amp, etc... There is a definite sonic quality improvement when utilizing the SPDIF (optical) signal path over the USB signal path. This has been noted by more than one individual on more than one device. I'm not trying to "start" anything. I'm just pointing out an observation.
> 
> Thanks for reading.


 
   
  Quote: 





ippudo said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> I haven't posted on here before but have been reading this thread with interest, so much so that I just got the E17/E09K combo, which makes for a nice upgrade from my previous Behringer UCA222 soundcard, which I had connected to a solid state amp. My headphone is a Beyer DT880 (600 ohm), which went straight into the SS amp's headphone input.
> 
> ...


 
  What SS amp are you referring to. Please use exact models.
   
  Quote: 





ananalogspirit said:


> It I suppose depends on your SPDIF source. Mine is an Auzen X-Meridian 7.1 (1G) which is known to have great SPDIF out and DAC (nice AKM chips) / DSP (C-Media Oxygen), and rollable opamps (OPA627AU) in mine. (the opamps of course do not enter into the SPDIF equation, I was just elaborating on my source for the other readers).
> 
> In my experience with the WM8740 based solutions, iBasso D10 Cobra DAC/Amp, FiiO E17 DAC/Amp, etc... There is a definite sonic quality improvement when utilizing the SPDIF (optical) signal path over the USB signal path. This has been noted by more than one individual on more than one device. I'm not trying to "start" anything. I'm just pointing out an observation.
> 
> Thanks for reading.


 
  Of course you aren't using the AKM DAC when using SPDIF


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What SS amp are you referring to. Please use exact models.


 
   
  Looks like I ain't the only one who is confused!
  LOL!


----------



## kalbee

ippudo said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> I haven't posted on here before but have been reading this thread with interest, so much so that I just got the E17/E09K combo, which makes for a nice upgrade from my previous Behringer UCA222 soundcard, which I had connected to a solid state amp. My headphone is a Beyer DT880 (600 ohm), which went straight into the SS amp's headphone input.
> 
> ...



Basically switch your setup over. Instead of using the E09 as preamp, switch that SS amp to the preamp task, or dual amp it.

But then you lose functionality of the E17's DAC. In which case is you really want to chain the E17, the SS amp, and the E09 then you might need to get the L7 attachment for the E17. This will give a Line Out option for the E17.

So Computer-> E17 with L7 --> SS amp --> E09 by a 3.5mm cable or RCA to stereo mini --> headphone.


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> What SS amp are you referring to. Please use exact models.
> 
> Of course you aren't using the AKM DAC when using SPDIF


 
   
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> Looks like I ain't the only one who is confused!
> LOL!


 
   
  Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Basically switch your setup over. Instead of using the E09 as preamp, switch that SS amp to the preamp task, or dual amp it.
> But then you lose functionality of the E17's DAC. In which case is you really want to chain the E17, the SS amp, and the E09 then you might need to get the L7 attachment for the E17. This will give a Line Out option for the E17.
> So Computer-> E17 with L7 --> SS amp --> E09 by a 3.5mm cable or RCA to stereo mini --> headphone.


 
   
  Thanks for all your responses, it's much appreciated.

 Like I said in my first post I'm using the headphone socket of the SS amp at the moment but would like to use the headphone input of the E09, which may or may not be better. At least worth a try, I think.

 I have to say that soundwise I don't notice much of a difference when the E17 is connected to my fairly recent Lenovo laptop (probably to do with the built-in ATI Radeon card, unlike my old desktop PC, where the E17 makes a lot more sense). I expected much better amplification, not just from the E17 by itself but especially in combination with the E09; I mean the sound is definitely more detailed but it lacks the oomph and soundstage the added SS amp provides, especially at higher volumes, no matter which gain setting I use.
   
  The SS amp is a very average model from the late 90's (Sherwood AX-7030R, with AUX, 2x TAPE, PHONO, TUNER and connections for 2 pairs of speakers, kind of similar to newer models like the Marantz 6004, which will be my next purchase). Since this is a fairly average setup but way superior-sounding to the FIIO unit by itself, I'm kind of disappointed. Maybe I was expecting too much. That said, the E09/17 combo makes for a great DAC/pre-amp.

 Kalbee's suggestion makes sense (even to me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), so unless, considering the additional amp specs, anyone has a different idea, I think I might order the L7...


----------



## kalbee

ippudo said:


> Thanks for all your responses, it's much appreciated.
> 
> 
> Like I said in my first post I'm using the headphone socket of the SS amp at the moment but would like to use the headphone input of the E09, which may or may not be better. At least worth a try, I think.
> ...



Awesome, another audio receiver user 

Before taking the dive on the L7 you can always try simply using the Headphone Out port of the E17. That _would_ be triple amping it, but does not cost anything for the moment. You'd just have to make sure that your computer volume is maxed, and E17 also set pretty high. The Sherwood also, but not too high to prevent distortion. You can play with the volume balance at each stage to attain your preferred sound.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





ananalogspirit said:


> Nope, of course not. Those are bypassed and the bitstream is sent out to the E17's WM8740, as would be expected. I was merely giving the info about the board for folks to use as a reference point to compare it to, say, onboard REALTEK HD AC'97 audio with SPDIF out.
> 
> The X-Meridian as source, It has a dedicated 2-channel 24-bit/192kHz IEC958 SPDIF transmitter and 2-channel 24-bit/192kHz IEC958 SPDIF receiver built into the C-Media CMI-8788 Oxygen DSP. You can use optical or coaxial cables with this board (I've only used the POF (Plastic Optical Fiber) type TOSLINK cable with mine, haven't had any reason to try glass fiber, or occasion to try Coaxial.
> 
> ...


 
  Hold on their shotty! LOL. I was just claryfying as some newbies may take it as the AKM being used with the WM.


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Awesome, another audio receiver user
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry, I don't quite get the triple amping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  My understanding is that if I plug the headphones in the H/O of the E17 (while docked in the E09, which is AUXed to the Sherwood), all I get is the sound of the E17 as there is no lead going back from the Sherwood - unless there's a possibility of using the AUX port on the E09 somehow - wouldn't I need something like an AUX splitter (if that actually exists) on the Sherwood to be able to plug in 2 separate RCA leads, one going from the E09 to the AUX port of the Sherwood and one leading back into the E09?


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

.


----------



## kalbee

ippudo said:


> Sorry, I don't quite get the triple amping.    My understanding is that if I plug the headphones in the H/O of the E17 (while docked in the E09, which is AUXed to the Sherwood), all I get is the sound of the E17 as there is no lead going back from the Sherwood - unless there's a possibility of using the AUX port on the E09 somehow - wouldn't I need something like an AUX splitter (if that actually exists) on the Sherwood to be able to plug in 2 separate RCA leads, one going from the E09 to the AUX port of the Sherwood and one leading back into the E09?



By plugging anything through the H/O you are using it's amp.
Line Out will be full signal.

What I was suggesting was if you take for example:
Computer ---USB---> E17 ---H/O 3.5mm to RCA---> Sherwood ---H/O 1/4" to 3.5mm AUX IN---> E09.
In this case the E17 should not be docked to the E09.

Perhaps you can call that using the E17 as a DAC and also a preamp? I don't know.
If the E17 is plugged to the E09 (and the USB cable plugged to the E09) then you would not be able to use the AUX IN from the E09. There's no source selector (at least not in the E9) so you can only use either of the two.
With the E17 docked, the E17 H/O should be bypassing the E09 altogether I think.

Not really an ideal situation but given the inclusion of the Sherwood receiver things get a bit more complicated xP


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





clieos said:


> As said, the software volume control is now enable due to popular demand, even though it is better not to. You just have to stop yourself from trying to adjust the volume on the PC....


 
  Someone may have already asked this question. Sorry if I ask this question again.
   
  I am curious why the software volume control will affect the SQ. What is the mechanic behind the software volume control? I thought it was just an option which allow us to control the volume without pressing the buttons on E17. All signal came out from the computer should be digital, and the only amplifying part is E17's amp, so, why the software volume control can affect the SQ. Puzzled.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





duyu said:


> Someone may have already asked this question. Sorry if I ask this question again.
> 
> I am curious why the software volume control will affect the SQ. What is the mechanic behind the software volume control? I thought it was just an option which allow us to control the volume without pressing the buttons on E17. All signal came out from the computer should be digital, and the only amplifying part is E17's amp, so, why the software volume control can affect the SQ. Puzzled.


 
  Controlling software before it reaches DAC may and will usually depending on how much volume is lowered affect the bits being sent. This is ok if the signal is 24 bit and you don't extremely lower it but 16bits has just enough to accomadate the needed(audio theory subjective thought on what is needed and what isn't, there is debate on this but let's just say 96 for now) 96dB of dynamic range needed to full fill the entire audio spectrum. Decreasing before DAC stage on computer through software will reduce the bits being sent and thus this will have an effect. That is why 100% is recommended. Controls was disabled at first but due to popular demand(from people that aren't as knowledgeable or from people that don't care and want ease of use) FiiO brought it back. It sets to 100% when you plug it in USB auto anyway but you can still change it.
   
  Edit: It was answered in this thread many times but I won't discriminate. I wouldn't read this thread if I was interested in it either. I'll read the first 10 pages, and then the 10 pages after the product comes out(if it didn't when thread was created) and then the final 10 pages and if I still have some questions on its features, I will use the kinda useless search function and Google as well as manufactuers website. And then I ask. I am breaking it out so it looks long but this doesn't take me too long as I am a Panda Google Web Wizard.


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Controlling software before it reaches DAC may and will usually depending on how much volume is lowered affect the bits being sent. This is ok if the signal is 24 bit and you don't extremely lower it but 16bits has just enough to accomadate the needed(audio theory subjective thought on what is needed and what isn't, there is debate on this but let's just say 96 for now) 96dB of dynamic range needed to full fill the entire audio spectrum. Decreasing before DAC stage on computer through software will reduce the bits being sent and thus this will have an effect. That is why 100% is recommended. Controls was disabled at first but due to popular demand(from people that aren't as knowledgeable or from people that don't care and want ease of use) FiiO brought it back. It sets to 100% when you plug it in USB auto anyway but you can still change it.
> 
> Edit: It was answered in this thread many times but I won't discriminate. I wouldn't read this thread if I was interested in it either. I'll read the first 10 pages, and then the 10 pages after the product comes out(if it didn't when thread was created) and then the final 10 pages and if I still have some questions on its features, I will use the kinda useless search function and Google as well as manufactuers website. And then I ask. I am breaking it out so it looks long but this doesn't take me too long as I am a Panda Google Web Wizard.


 
  I can't understand why reducing bits being sent can affect the volume. Maybe, it is too theoretical.
  Bowei, thanks for your reply.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





duyu said:


> I can't understand why reducing bits being sent can affect the volume. Maybe, it is too theoretical.
> Bowei, thanks for your reply.


 

 In a more visual way (may not reflect 100% the reality; this is only for explanation purposes):
  Music are waveforms, and the amplitude will grow with volume. Basically a sound with really low volume will almost be a flat wave.
  An amplifier will take that sound wave and magnify the amplitude/magnitude. If the waveform is already very shapely, then the amplifier can very easily retrieve details. But if the waveform is of low amplitude, the amp WILL still increase the amplitude but with less details since the original sound wave less details to begin with. This is especially true since digital signals are not true waveforms.
   

  Excuse me for the terrible TERRIBLE drawings.
  But I guess this is the very crude but general idea?
   
  Another example you can think of is if you have two JPEG pictures.

  The two top pictures are IDENTICAL, and look fine. One is just smaller than the other.
  Say you want to enlarge the picture. If you take the one that is bigger, then when you enlarge it you will not lose as much quality or detail. If you take the small one, you get a lot of loss in detail.
  Top left --> bottom left
  Top right --> bottom right


----------



## duyu

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> In a more visual way (may not reflect 100% the reality; this is only for explanation purposes):
> Music are waveforms, and the amplitude will grow with volume. Basically a sound with really low volume will almost be a flat wave.
> An amplifier will take that sound wave and magnify the amplitude/magnitude. If the waveform is already very shapely, then the amplifier can very easily retrieve details. But if the waveform is of low amplitude, the amp WILL still increase the amplitude but with less details since the original sound wave less details to begin with. This is especially true since digital signals are not true waveforms.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks Kalbee, the graphs are helpful. They illustrated why the more the amplification we add the more distortion we get.
  If the the software volume control can indeed flatten the wave form, then since we need more amplification we in the end have more distortion. 
   
   
  I have done some testing.
  It seems true that having 100% output with lower volume in E17 gives me a better SQ. I didn't do a blind review for this.
  The reason that I did not use 100% before is that my modded T50rp has low impedance. If I set it to 100%, volume 15-20 at gain 0 is sufficient for me.
  Now, when I plugged the L7 and tried listen using the line out, I found that it is much louder than volume 20 at gain 0. It seems that the amp section also responsible for reducing volume, right?


----------



## Chris J

ippudo said:


> Thanks for all your responses, it's much appreciated.
> 
> 
> Like I said in my first post I'm using the headphone socket of the SS amp at the moment but would like to use the headphone input of the E09, which may or may not be better. At least worth a try, I think.
> ...





PLEASE try this for ONE WEEK!

computer >>> USB port on E09K >>> put E17 into E09K dock >>> plug headphones into E09K jack

or

computer >>> SPDIF port on E17 >>> put E17 into E09K dock >>> plug headphones into E09K headphone jack

it may take your ears a week to get used to this sound. You may just be used to the thick, heavy, muddy sound of the old SS amp. I used to use an old Yamaha CR-2020 receiver, compared to a good amp it sounded very thick and full and mellow. Sort of appealing in some ways, but not the world's most transparent amp. Thru a really good pair of speakers it sounded overly full and mellow. A good modern headphone amp will sound faster, cleaner, purer, the bass will be tighter and punchier and more accurate, clearer mids and highs.
Try it out, what do you have to loose?


Edit:
At the end of one week, then go back to the Sherwood and see what you think.
If you still like the Sherwood more, keep it simple:

computer >>> USB or SPDIF into E17/E09K combo >>> line out jacks on E09K into Aux jack on the Sherwood and use the Sherwood headphone jack. 
Don't do anything more complicated that that, things will only sound worse if you complicate it further.


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> By plugging anything through the H/O you are using it's amp.
> Line Out will be full signal.
> What I was suggesting was if you take for example:
> Computer ---USB---> E17 ---H/O 3.5mm to RCA---> Sherwood ---H/O 1/4" to 3.5mm AUX IN---> E09.
> ...


 
   
  I tried your suggestion (not in a million years would I have thought of using the H/O in of the SS amp as an out) and lo and behold, the SQ is even more impressive now (more headspace, more depth, more punch, more everything; vocals sound crystal clear). I bet it will sound out-of-this-world awesome with a better power amp. Shame though that it takes extra amplification to make the E17/E09 combo truly shine. I was close to asking for a refund, so thanks a bunch for sorting this problem and keeping me from spending more cash.


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





chris j said:


> PLEASE try this for ONE WEEK!
> computer >>> USB port on E09K >>> put E17 into E09K dock >>> plug headphones into E09K jack
> or
> computer >>> SPDIF port on E17 >>> put E17 into E09K dock >>> plug headphones into E09K headphone jack
> ...





>





> Sorry I had missed your message before my last post! Many thanks for your suggestions.





> I tried the first option for a day (yes, I probably should have given it a bit longer but to me it just sounded really disappointing - unpleasantly harsh, thin and mushy, especially at higher volumes (gain setting was 6 db on the E09 and 0db/06db on the E17, with a main volume of 55 on the E17). I tried all sorts of EQ, both on Foobar and the E17, which didn't really improve things. I agree the sound I achieved with the Behringer 222 soundcard and Sherwood combo may have been a little woolly and veiled but at least the dynamics felt right and my ears didn't start bleeding after a while. Initially I thought the problem was with my cans, but both the Beyers and the Grados 80i didn't sound their "usual" selves. By comparison, some more expensive headphone amps I tried in the shops a while ago sounded MUCH fuller to what I heard from the E17/E09, right away, though I'm not sure whether they used any extra amplification. Maybe, as you say, it just takes some getting used to but somehow I don't think the difference should be that huge.





>





> I'd like to try the SP/DIF route but unfortunately my integrated soundcard (Soundmax from 2005, prehistoric nonsense, I know!) doesn't have an optical out, so I guess I'll have to wait until I get a new PC, hopefully next year.





>





> Like I said I don't think adding the E17 made much difference at all when connected to my laptop, which has one of the better ATI Radeon cards - it still sounded unacceptable to me (louder for sure but again very thin and boxed). I'd imagine the difference is more noticeable when pairing the E17 with an iPod or Android phone. Given that the DAC of the E17 is obviously excellent, it's the amplification provided by both the E17 and the E09 which aren't nowhere near as good as they should be IMO.
> 
> After trying Kalbee's last suggestion, all I can say is that the sound has much opened up and it feels the woolly sound of the Sherwood (on relatively low volume) made way for the clearer (more "aggressive" sound) of the E09, despite the latter acting "only" as a pre-amp. I feel the instrument separation just wasn't there before.





>


----------



## kalbee

duyu said:


> Thanks Kalbee, the graphs are helpful. They illustrated why the more the amplification we add the more distortion we get.
> If the the software volume control can indeed flatten the wave form, then since we need more amplification we in the end have more distortion.
> 
> I have done some testing.
> ...



Yes, you can say that the amp is responsible for reducing the volume.
From my understanding (which may not be 100% correct might I add, essentially with the L7 the sound signal is processed through E17's DAC, and Line Out will give you the full power of the signal, untouched (or not significantly modified in terms of volume) by E17's amp. I believe you can reach even higher volumes through E17's amp.



ippudo said:


> I tried your suggestion (not in a million years would I have thought of using the H/O in of the SS amp as an out) and lo and behold, the SQ is even more impressive now (more headspace, more depth, more punch, more everything; vocals sound crystal clear). I bet it will sound out-of-this-world awesome with a better power amp. Shame though that it takes extra amplification to make the E17/E09 combo truly shine. I was close to asking for a refund, so thanks a bunch for sorting this problem and keeping me from spending more cash.



Glad it works out for you 
When you put many amps in series you are amping the sound various times... it's like taking different juices and mixing them together. The result may be good as it could also be bad. If you like the way they now sound, then you've gotten yourself a personal winner. Which is what matters


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Yes, you can say that the amp is responsible for reducing the volume.
> From my understanding (which may not be 100% correct might I add, essentially with the L7 the sound signal is processed through E17's DAC, and Line Out will give you the full power of the signal, untouched (or not significantly modified in terms of volume) by E17's amp. I believe you can reach even higher volumes through E17's amp.
> Glad it works out for you
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, a very pleasant surprise - I'm still amazed, 10 hours and counting... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As it's hardly breaking the bank, I think I'll also check out the L7. Once again many thanks to you and everyone else who took the time to answer my questions. Life's good again!


----------



## KBerube80

Quick question:  I am about to purchase a E17 for laptop/ipod use and am just wondering if the unit comes with any wires?  DO I need to buy the ipod connector (LOD) wire and USB wire separately?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kberube80 said:


> Quick question:  I am about to purchase a E17 for laptop/ipod use and am just wondering if the unit comes with any wires?  DO I need to buy the ipod connector (LOD) wire and USB wire separately?


 
  It does not come with a LOD for iPod
   
  It comes with 3.5mm exchange cable. For aux to aux.
   
  It comes with USB cable
   
  The items included are listed on FiiO's website. Please refer to there if you have any questions on what the specifications of the E17 are or what it comes with.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

On my E17 at the top it says 48K 16bit, what does this mean?


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Also, how do I use the E17 with my laptop, i plugged it in and its charging, but it plays through the computer speakers not through the E17/headphones.


----------



## KBerube80

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It does not come with a LOD for iPod
> 
> It comes with 3.5mm exchange cable. For aux to aux.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for the reply. 
   
  Apologies for the silly question.  I wasn't led to the Fiio website through web searches.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> On my E17 at the top it says 48K 16bit, what does this mean?


 
  The signal being inputted
  Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Also, how do I use the E17 with my laptop, i plugged it in and its charging, but it plays through the computer speakers not through the E17/headphones.


 
  You have to select E17 as default playback device in Windows. It will say E17 USB in alternative text. Right click and select as default.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Sorry for posting again, but what does gain do?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Sorry for posting again, but what does gain do?


 
  There is a lot of audio stuff that goes into what gain and amping is. But obviously you didn't come to ask and learn and read through a 4-5 paragraph long essay.
   
  So just take it that gain makes the audio louder. More power. 
   
  How it achieves this differs from design to design but just take it as power.
   
  Have sensitive IEMs? 0dB gain. Have headphones that require a bit of power? 12dB


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> The signal being inputted
> You have to select E17 as default playback device in Windows. It will say E17 USB in alternative text. Right click and select as default.


 
  Thanks, but where do i find these playback settings?


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Windows can't find the E17, I think its because its a school laptop.  Does the DAC still work if plug it in through AUX into the laptop?


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

When does the  48k 16 bit signal change?


----------



## bowei006

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Thanks, but where do i find these playback settings?



In the taskbar menu. It is the volume icon. You right click it




asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Windows can't find the E17, I think its because its a school laptop.  Does the DAC still work if plug it in through AUX into the laptop?



Yes. But noy recommended. You are amping a terrible source.

Yes, E17 uses class 1 self contained audio drivers. It should work unless there are heavy restrictions on the PC



asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> When does the  48k 16 bit signal change?



When you input a signal that isnt that. It is just an indicator. Most audio are in 44.1/16, E17 just rounds up to the nearest one.


----------



## bowei006

I have a how to use video on the E17 on youtube. Just type in E17 how to use and watch through it please. It has windows and mac instructions


----------



## Chris J

What can I say? Your headphone rig sounds really complicated, I wouldn't expect to get good results from this, but if it works for you, cool!

Looks like your computer sound card has a damn good DAC!

The FiiO E17 & E09K (or E09?) etc is really just a good DAC & amp for the money. It's not supposed to be the world's greatest DAC and Headphone Amp.

I guess you would have been happier with one of the expensive Headphone Amps you listened to in the shop?

But I guess they are too $$$ ?


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





> Yes. But noy recommended. You are amping a terrible source.
> 
> Yes, E17 uses class 1 self contained audio drivers. It should work unless there are heavy restrictions on the PC


 
   
  Yeah there are restrictions so i will have to use AUX. Will that still do a decent job and only the amp not the dac works then right?


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> What can I say? Your headphone rig sounds really complicated, I wouldn't expect to get good results from this, but if it works for you, cool!
> Looks like your computer sound card has a damn good DAC!
> The FiiO E17 & E09K (or E09?) etc is really just a good DAC & amp for the money. It's not supposed to be the world's greatest DAC and Headphone Amp.
> I guess you would have been happier with one of the expensive Headphone Amps you listened to in the shop?
> But I guess they are too $$$ ?



Computer onboards have high specs but suck. The majority support 192/24 but are terrible dac and amp. 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Yeah there are restrictions so i will have to use AUX. Will that still do a decent job and only the amp not the dac works then right?



It will just amp a bad signal

Aux in only uses amp of Andes and Alpen


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





chris j said:


> What can I say? Your headphone rig sounds really complicated, I wouldn't expect to get good results from this, but if it works for you, cool!
> Looks like your computer sound card has a damn good DAC!
> The FiiO E17 & E09K (or E09?) etc is really just a good DAC & amp for the money. It's not supposed to be the world's greatest DAC and Headphone Amp.
> I guess you would have been happier with one of the expensive Headphone Amps you listened to in the shop?
> But I guess they are too $$$ ?


 

 I wish it was less complex and I could get rid of the SS amp eventually. I also preferred the look of the E17 "married" to the E09K (yes, it's the updated version). Like yourself, it's not at all what I expected, what with the extra components and wires (which I think would have added all kinds of hiss, muffle etc.). Anyway, I guess I got lucky for once. Can't tell you how impressed I am with the sound now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of course, in an ideal world I'd go for the best headphone amp out there, but
 neither do I see the point of spending a fortune (diminishing returns) nor would I have the funds. Regarding laptop soundcards, there was someone on Amazon who also didn't think the E17 made much of a difference to his setup - apparently his Apple Mac came with a superior card. Mind you, it's a very different story with my old desktop PC.
   
  Apologies if what I said sounded too much like a bashing of the E09K/E17. It's just my opinion that, as a stand-alone unit, it should have better amplification, i.e. sound fuller and a bit less tinny than it does, given it has such a great DAC. (The "shortcomings" were less obvious to me with more stripped-down and rhythm-based music (I mostly listen to funk, soul and electronic music) but the busier rock and indie stuff got rather tiresome. I guess it's okay at lower volume levels but not satisfactory to me at higher levels (and no, I rarely listen past 12 o'clock). I also think that adding bass or treble on the E17 compromises the clarity to a degree. I prefer a clear signal and then add some EQ on Foobar if needed.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It will just amp a bad signal
> 
> Aux in only uses amp of Andes and Alpen


 
  So it only uses the amp, but what is bad about the signal?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> So it only uses the amp, but what is bad about the signal?


 
  Laptop or desktop onboard audio is generally horrible. Half the cards that ship today support 192KHz.


----------



## pabloaugustus

I'm just curious why anybody would need headphone amps for regular low Ohm headphones?  I was all over amazon (probably bad start) and everybody was buying the audio-technica pro770 (probaby another bad move) with one of these amplifiers. 
   
  I come from the studio world and having been using beats solo HD and my android to walk the dog.  I wanted bigger over ear headphones. 
   
  The ATs came and plugged right into the android they sound horrible, horrible, compared to the beats solo.  Why is this?  Why at similar resistance would
  the ATs sound so bad? 
   
  so why do 1)I need an amp for AT-PRO770s
   
  if the OHMs are fine for my phone to drive if the quality is bad isn't it that the cans sound bad and why would I fix that by buying more stuff instead of an AMP.
   
  I get the DAC use, but not really when you can buy a real audio interface like a transit or a DUO or something that will give you a great DAC.
   
  I get headphone AMPs for pushing high Ohm headphones. 
   
  But what is the E17 going to do for me to my ATPRO770s out of my android after I charge it for 12 hours.
   
  The AT770s plugged into my ipod or into my home studio have a huge gross disgusting muddy low end that I can't fix. 
   
  Is this what "bass heads" wants?  
   
  I just don't get the market for the E17 the headphone AMP or the DAC....if you need a DAC get an audio interface for not much more.  If you have 300 OHM headphones you probably already
  have pro stuff that can amplify the cans.
   
  I really don't get why AT770s, that I should be able to power just fine with a droid and poweramp, sound HORRIBLE, also out of my RME fireface.  
   
  I will try this amp once its charged but I think its all going back to be replaced with the Pioneer DJ2000s which should sound great and bassie without their box.
   
  Why polish a turd?????


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





pabloaugustus said:


> I'm just curious why anybody would need headphone amps for regular low Ohm headphones?  I was all over amazon (probably bad start) and everybody was buying the audio-technica pro770 (probaby another bad move) with one of these amplifiers.
> 
> I come from the studio world and having been using beats solo HD and my android to walk the dog.  I wanted bigger over ear headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  Some people really like their first headphones as it is their first step into this. They haven't gotten the upgrade bug yet so they love it. And thus they will spend money to perfect it.
   
  I'm not advocating for spending $150 on a DAC and amp for a $150 headphone unless you are about to upgrade.


----------



## pabloaugustus

I think I am understanding things.....
   
  There are cheaper headphone that can give you lots of bass but aren't made for studio monitoring.  I.e. the AT 770PRO, and btw, the new ear pad may have something to do with mudiness.
   
  By playing with power amp I've gotten the ATs to sound pretty good...kinda like the sub in my car.  Thats what I was going after.  Its a huge unweildly bass sound and I could see using an EQ to tame the power but why do I need an amp with such low impedance headphones.  They require less power than my beats solo HD. 
   
  I could see possibly using the F17 to sculpt the sound so the super lows on my mixes made for my truck don't blow my cans.  (i.e. mad mike's bass mix, and more popularly, and musical, the new little Boosie...bass heads check it out!!!  I hope this is what you mean by bass head because if you walk around listening to the the tuning CDs for subwoofers man there is something wrong with you).
   
  But still I don't get the amp feature or why I'd need it. 
   
  I have come around to these headphones.....they can cheaply give me the feel of rolling in my 1200watts of sub while walking the dog, thats all I want, but I want some clarity too.0
   
  The problems came in that the impedance is SOOOO low that you have to keep outputs down or it muddies stuff up.  Could be the new ear pads someone mentioned too.   But taming the volume, and using power amp along, and using my beats cable with mic for the phone I've gotten these cans to sound all right.
   
  I still don't see why I need an amp.
   
  And I still don't see why I shouldn't spend same money as AT plus AMP, buy the pioneer DJ200s which are COMFORTABLE, give you bass head response, and give you studio monitoring clarity.   If you aren't afraid of taking studio cans out on a walk or for a trip (or snowboarding!!!!) why not just get the pioneers forget all this amp crap.
   
  I still don't get why I need an amp for these headphone.  Is there an awesome EQ on the e17 that beats what the full poweramp can do? 
   
  Sorry for the posts I won't reply till my E17 has had its 12 hours and I can mass with it. 
   
  I do see the possible value of the AT770pros but compared to the pioneer DJ2000 the Reloop HI Ends (3Hz??????? wow) 
   
  If you really just want a Dac for your computer there is a great one that is just a USB stick with a line out.  Me?  I'd get a full on audio interface for a few bucks more.
   
  But buying an E17 just to pair with LOW IMPEDENCE headphone I don't get it! 
   
  I can blow these headphones with my android.  Is that the idea, I turn down the amp on the Fiio and bump volume on my droid? 
   
  RIght now I'm getting great great bassie sound out of bass heavy music.  Pretty bad sound for regular pop. 
   
  I come from hip hop....little Boosie's new album, thats bass head to me...do people really just listen to music with no mids and HIs and therefore I'm talking way out of my depth?
   
  I've never thought much about CANs...I think I'm happy I found this site....more stuff to learn about
   
  -Pablo Rotter
     - producer, musician, computer tech,


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





pabloaugustus said:


> I think I am understanding things.....
> 
> There are cheaper headphone that can give you lots of bass but aren't made for studio monitoring.  I.e. the AT 770PRO, and btw, the new ear pad may have something to do with mudiness.
> 
> ...


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
   
  To be honest, studio monitoring headphones are all in the $150-$250 range. M50's and DT770 Pro's and varouis Sony's are extremely popular. We here use headphones that would otherwise not be popularly used in studios. Why buy $1K headphones when you can buy studio monitors and be like all the other producers with their big studio monitors. But as we can tell, a lot of production still sucks in how it sounds.
   
  Besides Beats, you don't see headphones in videos a lot obviously. But one that really shows them is the "We are the World 25 for Haiti" video. It was produced by Quincy Jones who endorses the Q701's and many are using DT770 Pro's or Sony's or Fostex's and AKG's.
   
  If you tracks will have an ill effect on any speaker system that will blow ears without an EQ, then either get different speakers if those are the problems or produce it a bit differently. Like you said, you can polish a turd all you want. But we would love it if the actual finalized track worked without EQ because many times, EQ won't help it as much if everything is congested and what not.
   
  An amp for headphones at your range or easy driving ones isn't recommended unless you know what you are doing. Why put slotted and cross drilled disc brakes with ceramic pads on a toyota Camry? Because some want perfection or better audio. However this relates back to if you can hear it and if it is justifiable.


----------



## 329161

How does this compare to the iBasso D Zero?


----------



## Cardiel

Is the E17 a bright sounding signature/neutral/dark?  thanks


----------



## Cardiel

Has the E17 got better bass than Fiio e10? with its 5 levels of bass


----------



## catspaw

As far as i know E17 is slightly better at quality in general than the Fiio E10. it has bass levels -10 -8 -6 -4 -2 0 +2 +4 +6 +8 +10 so its more than 5 levels (im oing this from memory so correct me if im wrong.


----------



## Chris J

pabloaugustus said:


> I think I am understanding things.....
> 
> There are cheaper headphone that can give you lots of bass but aren't made for studio monitoring.  I.e. the AT 770PRO, and btw, the new ear pad may have something to do with mudiness.
> 
> ...


 

Sorry man, but I can't quite figure out if you are trolling?

Long story, short version, if you have low impedance cans they may need more current than the source you are currently using can provide.
I use an amp with my HP notebook because the headphone jack on the HP sounds terrible, terrible, terrible. Muddy, foggy, veiled, doesn't output a lot of power either.
Plugging my E17 into the USB port on the HP notebook sounds better in every possible way.
I can reasonably assume that the E17 has a better DAC and better sounding headphone amp than the HP notebook.
YMMV
And that's the short version.


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





cardiel said:


> Is the E17 a bright sounding signature/neutral/dark?  thanks


 

 I can't compare it to many other DACs, but next to my previous Behringer UCA-222 it's definitely on the bright side.


----------



## bowei006

dcfac73 said:


> How does this compare to the iBasso D Zero?


Headfonia has an E17 review with d zero


----------



## kalbee

I'd classify it a bit brighter sounding.
Though they do measure nice and flat.
So let me rephrase that: brighter than the DAC in a iPod (warmer).


----------



## Achmedisdead

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> I'd classify it a bit brighter sounding.
> Though they do measure nice and flat.
> So let me rephrase that: brighter than the DAC in a iPod (warmer).


 
   
  I thought warmer and brighter were the opposite?


----------



## kalbee

Let me rephrase that: it is said that the iPod's DAC (or amp?) is on the warmer side.


----------



## Achmedisdead

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Let me rephrase that: it is said that the iPod's DAC (or amp?) is on the warmer side.


 
  I would agree with that, for the Wolfson-equipped models.


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
> 
> To be honest, studio monitoring headphones are all in the $150-$250 range. M50's and DT770 Pro's and varouis Sony's are extremely popular. We here use headphones that would otherwise not be popularly used in studios. Why buy $1K headphones when you can buy studio monitors and be like all the other producers with their big studio monitors. But as we can tell, a lot of production still sucks in how it sounds.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well thats my point...I understanding buying 300 ohm $!000 cans and getting a portable amp.  I'm a studio producer composer musician not a bass head and you seem to agree with me
  that an amp isn't needed for low ohm headphones.
   
  So what do I need to know bout what I'm doing to pair an E17 with AT-PRO770s? Obviously I can blow these cans to heck so I think I'd want to focus on turning things down and if the E17s amp has a "sweet" coloration that along with software (powerAmp) EQ I can use to make a better sound then just an Android and low Ohm Headphones.  Plus I can access that bass range with a lot of control.   I can do that. 
   
  Is that what you mean by "know what you are doing"?
   
  Thanks for the introduction, I've only been exposed to headphones used for miced performers (I.e. HD 280s) and high end open back reference style headphones. 
   
  But I've got subs in my truck and when I walk the dog I want that thump.  I don't want to get ripped on but beats best product IMHO is the HD Pro...its a great lightweight
  headphone lots of bass.
   
  But clearly more bass equals bigger drivers so I've got these AT-PRO770s and will see if I get it when I plug the E17 in. 
   
  Are these theories similar to and in line with that of car stereo design where you want more amplification than needed so levels don't need to get pushed?  
   
   
  What would be one of the nicest pair of cans I could match with this E17 for purely listening?  LIke pumping 808s, etc.   I see you guys rate phones and is that purely on a listening level
  or on an accurate reproduction.
   
  Basically I want cans that act like my truck.....give me a real world view on how enthusiasts treat the music I make. 
   
  I also need accurate cans for breaks in the studio. 
   
  Now what would be cool is an amp paired with a headphone that could give you basshead style listening when plugged in and same cans be plugged into the DAW output and sound accurate.
   
  Lots of thoughts blah blah
   
  Thanks for helping me....I'm so busy redesigning the studio and I'm learning all this headphone stuff....and I know I'm gonna wanna buy the best shizzle thats what bugs me!!!
   
  Thanks agaain so much, I'm grateful of your time,
   
  -Pablo


----------



## pabloaugustus

I tried it.  The E17 died after about 30 minutes.  It allowed me to have loud controlled bass from my AT770s.
   
  The portable amp concept was hard...I put phone in back amp in front....but what if I got a call?  Can anything be put in place of the 3.5mm cable that connect the Fiio to your
  devices' output.
   
  I set gain to 0, treble -2, bass +6 got volume around 30 it was banging hard and then it just died.


----------



## jasonb

It just died? Is the battery charged?
  Quote: 





pabloaugustus said:


> I tried it.  The E17 died after about 30 minutes.  It allowed me to have loud controlled bass from my AT770s.
> 
> The portable amp concept was hard...I put phone in back amp in front....but what if I got a call?  Can anything be put in place of the 3.5mm cable that connect the Fiio to your
> devices' output.
> ...


----------



## pabloaugustus

My E17 just broke...I think I posted it somewhere else on here sorry.  I put gain at zero bass at 8 treble -2 linked droid razor/M went for a walk.  My AT770s sounded really good. 
   
  I'm not sure what kind of output droid gives you but I expected louder based on ohms of that ATs.   I had a great time was subbb wooofing out to lil boosie then when I got home
   
  it died.  Screen response good it just won't pass the aux signal through.  Gonna go to page and troubleshoot.
   
   
  I also wanted to respond to the comment that most studio cans cost between x-y$.   Well there are two kinds of studio cans.  Super closed back that you give to all the musicians (SH HD280).
   
  But engineers often want an open or semi open back super high quality headphone for detailed listening, not bass bumping, just accuracy.  There are many approaching and exceeding $1000 in price range. 
   
  The price of an expensive set of headphones must either be due to:
   
  a) exceptional engineering resulting in "accurate" response
  b) exception engineering resulting in an awesome sonic experience.  
  c) seeing how much chumps will pay!  This is the criminal part, their needs to be regulation in this marketplace.
   
  Theres overlap but studio cans, especially for monitoring overlap with the highest end stuff.
   
  And another huge irony!  Behrydynamic (I can never spell) makes cans for the studio that don't sound very good or have a high failure rate, and are cheap.  But their consumer headphones are more accurate for monitoring and you can get more bump.  In fact I think the DT770s are horrible as monitoring headphones, while their consumer model is great.  Weird?  
   
  (I did research a bit of this, especially the Behrydynamic part....I think they've lost their bearings)


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





pabloaugustus said:


> My E17 just broke...I think I posted it somewhere else on here sorry.  I put gain at zero bass at 8 treble -2 linked droid razor/M went for a walk.  My AT770s sounded really good.
> 
> I'm not sure what kind of output droid gives you but I expected louder based on ohms of that ATs.   I had a great time was subbb wooofing out to lil boosie then when I got home
> 
> ...


 
  Their studio cans in my opinion sound better than their consumer ones.
   
  Monitoring? They aren't that good for sound producers but artists?They do well.
   
  The only $1000 headphones are  the HD 700/HD800 and Audeze and Fostex's and a few others.I have never seen one in an engineers lab.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Is it better to use 0 Gain and a high volume or 6db Gain and less volume?


----------



## bowei006

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is it better to use 0 Gain and a high volume or 6db Gain and less volume?


Up to you. 0 gain allows for more steps to control volume


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> you don't disable the DAC you just connect to it through an analog connection (vise digital) - this obviously bypasses the DAC.


 
   
  I know I'm new here I too am searching for an "obvious" answer not included in the manual. This device and entire class of devices is very mysterious to some of us
  who may be quite expert in audio or computers but these little amps with built in DACs are slightly confusing as to who and what they are for and what the signal chain is for.\
   
  It would not be unreasonable to think that the DAC may be included in the signal chain to the output through the amp, let me plug in a SPDIF source (you don't have spdif output on your nextgen android straight from japan?) and process the signal with the DAC before being amplified.
   
  Your answer makes it seem like a stupid question, but I don't think it is.


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Their studio cans in my opinion sound better than their consumer ones.
> 
> Monitoring? They aren't that good for sound producers but artists?They do well.
> 
> The only $1000 headphones are  the HD 700/HD800 and Audeze and Fostex's and a few others.I have never seen one in an engineers lab.


 
   
  I Admit I'm a pariah not liking the DT770s, I've had several pair break on me and durability is a must for me.  Have you listened to the T50P lightweight appx $250, blows away the DT770 IMHO, and I love the T1.  I just base my statements on what I have heard in my ears.  Seems likes most good studio cans these days are reaching for the magic $1000 as they realize consumers are paying that so why not engineers.  Anyway, this is getting silly, I'm just comparing three cans that I have heard and telling you I like Bery's consumers better.  But that wasn't what my reply was about and you've set up a straw man argument.  No the T1S i think are still a hidden gem for engineering, for whom headphones aren't the biggest priority. Berys most used in the studio cans are the 770s, you win that argument that I wasn't arguing, yes more engineers use the 770s.   
   
  What I wanted to point  out was that you were generalizing greatly about studio cans.  You said any headphone priced between (150-300$???) is a studio can and I want to point out its more nuanced.  There are the cans for musicians, and engineering cans.  Engineering cans have been widely available at over $500 for many years and are creeping up. 
   
  Can't we all get along man?  I work with a dude who sells hundreds of headphones on his amazon store and I help him process the DT770 RMAs once a week he gets so many.  And he let me listen to the T1 and T50p and I'm blown away by berydynamics consumer line and wanted people to know.  
   
  Thats what I wanted to do, not get in a pissing match.  Can we call it good man?  Try something different and check out some of the mid to high range berydynamic consumers if you get the chance.  
   
  Sorry for my mass mis spellings.


----------



## Chris J

pabloaugustus said:


> I know I'm new here I too am searching for an "obvious" answer not included in the manual. This device and entire class of devices is very mysterious to some of us
> who may be quite expert in audio or computers but these little amps with built in DACs are slightly confusing as to who and what they are for and what the signal chain is for.\
> 
> It would not be unreasonable to think that the DAC may be included in the signal chain to the output through the amp, let me plug in a SPDIF source (you don't have spdif output on your nextgen android straight from japan?) and process the signal with the DAC before being amplified.
> ...




Stupid question on my part:
If you are a record producer, then why would you want to listen to music wwith a massive bass boost?
Wouldn't you want something flat, accurate so you can hear what is on the recording?

This line of questioning honestly baffles me.


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Sorry man, but I can't quite figure out if you are trolling?
> Long story, short version, if you have low impedance cans they may need more current than the source you are currently using can provide.
> I use an amp with my HP notebook because the headphone jack on the HP sounds terrible, terrible, terrible. Muddy, foggy, veiled, doesn't output a lot of power either.
> Plugging my E17 into the USB port on the HP notebook sounds better in every possible way.
> ...


 
   
  Nah I'm not trolling and it appears you didn't even understand my question.  I understand the whole DAC thing, which just seems silly because you get a  nice sound card or a USB audio interface and there you go.  But some people just listen, hence the dedicated DAC.
   
  My question is why amplify something that doesn't require amplification.  i.e. is it like car stereo where its best to overload with amps and keep the dial down, in otherwords have more power than you need. 
   
  Using my AT770pros and the E17 I'm having mixed results...Reference tracks could be any bass music, I'm digging Lil Boosie, REturn of super bad azz, track 2.  I get a buziness in a certain spectrum of the bass end.
   
  Using PowerAmp on my android razor M I can get better sound quality dialed in.  Still working on it....I understand these cans need time to break in.  
   
  But right now I get better sound going from the Razor to the AT770s. 
   
  I'll keep searching for setting that work and see if I can fall in love with this Fiio.  Since I'm making yet anothing post annnoying people apparently, seeing as I'm using this setup portable can the short 3.5mmcable connecting device to FiiO be replaced. It seems to have difference resistance than average headphone cable.   I just wanna be able to answer my phone without throwing all this stuff on the ground.
   
  me a troll?  You gotta understand you bassheads are crazy...regular people don't get this stuff...even tech people, you people have the collective knowledge of a PHD Electrical Engineer (none of that english or ethics though...lol)
   
  .I just ran into it and am trying to see how I as a lifelong musician and compotser these issues can be of aid to me.  I try to play my music on all platforms...I subbed out my truck and now I want to test mixes with a basshead rig.  
   
  I'm just trying to learn man.  I haven't started new threads, trying to feel the vibe, which seems a little elitest (you guys know a LOT about a speciazlied field, props for that, so many of you are elite) and I was hoping would be more welcoming.  
   
  The best way to end this is just to say
   
  I love Music.
   
  And I was hoping to connect with people of the same mind.


----------



## bowei006

There is nothing wrong with your comments. Just personal opinion. It is a bit redundant to post it here though. It is kinda like you are saying that you like Toyota because they are reliable and Fords as they have power.
Just general statements. A lot of people like the cans you mentioned. This is mainly an appreciation and or question thread.


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> There is nothing wrong with your comments. Just personal opinion. It is a bit redundant to post it here though. It is kinda like you are saying that you like Toyota because they are reliable and Fords as they have power.
> Just general statements. A lot of people like the cans you mentioned. This is mainly an appreciation and or question thread.


 
   
  Thanks for backing me up and clarifying. I'm not dissing DT770s.

 I was asking questions about the purpose of amplifying signals that have low Ohm rating. 
  It is perfectly applicable to the subject. 
   
  I'm still not clear....because I can so far still get better sound w/out amp with AT-770s so I thought maybe someone would have some suggestions for settings but I have learned about break in period applied to headphones too as well as monitors and truck speakers.
   
  What I was trying to say to you is that studio engineers are looking to audiophile cans as they push the technical envelope and we have the same studio cans we have had for a while.  So the line is bluring....like many people commented on the "audiophile" headphone by saying it makes a bad mix stand out.  
   
  THAT is why engineers are open to these higher end headphones.  No you don't see them in a lot of studios.  But I want I rack in mine. 
  A rack of closed back and a rack of open for myself. 
   
  I still have my question....How come POwerAmp and a razor/M give me better sound than the E17 pair.  Its break in for sure but if someone has setting that work well for them let me know.
   
  So I'm asking, I'm appreciating. 
   
  Can I ask another question?
   
  How does an amp like the E17 compare to a desktop unit like the Prosonus HP-4 4 channel mic amp about $130.  If thats off topic forget it I'm sorry.
   
  I've come into this thread with facts and opinions based on facts, but mostly questions, I don't get the negative response. 
   
  I search hard before I post anything. 
   
  Thanks for your help,


----------



## kalbee

chris j said:


> Stupid question on my part:
> If you are a record producer, then why would you want to listen to music wwith a massive bass boost?
> Wouldn't you want something flat, accurate so you can hear what is on the recording?
> This line of questioning honestly baffles me.



Why not? Producers can have their off time too. And not to mention nowadays we can almost assume the general population uses more bass heavy stuff anyway, so having recordings that sound good on bass boosted headphones sounds like a decent idea? You gotta see if from the average consumer standpoint sometimes.

@pablo:
Sorry if I mistaken the terms, since I read them a few days ago so they're not fresh in my mind. A portable amp like the E17 is, generally speaking, directed to consumers with portable needs and may not have mixers at home. If you have a mixer, depending on the model an all you can achieve much better EQing also (with prior knowledge on how they work) but most of us don't have one of those xP
As far as the amping section goes, I don't know much of the technical jargon here either but there are different sound hues and cues in each amp model. In a sense this can be the reason anyone can use any amp on very low impedance headphones.
Not sure if this answers a bit of your questions, though in the end the amp in question will still depend on your present gears, pairing to some degrees, and your preference in sound


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





pabloaugustus said:


> Nah I'm not trolling and it appears you didn't even understand my question.  I understand the whole DAC thing, which just seems silly because you get a  nice sound card or a USB audio interface and there you go.  But some people just listen, hence the dedicated DAC.
> 
> My question is why amplify something that doesn't require amplification.  i.e. is it like car stereo where its best to overload with amps and keep the dial down, in otherwords have more power than you need.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Fair enough.
  If you say you're not trolling then OK.
  Sorry if we (or I ) come across as Elitist.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Personally I am not a basshead so the whole basshead/bass boost thing sounds very strange and foreign to me and my way of thinking. If anything I am probably a treblehead (I like Grados and Q701s)!
   
  Personally, I have a little FiiO DAC because the DAC in my HP Notebook sounds like $%@!
  And when I use the HP notebook at home to listen to music I use a good headphone.
  I also use the FiiO E17 with my computer in my office at work.
  Otter than lugging it back and worth between home and work, it may as well be a desktop DAC/amp.
  But if the computers I use gave me good sound out of their headphone jacks, I wouldn't bother with an external DAC and amp.
   
  Just my opinion, but when I use my iPod or iPad I use cheaper headphones and using an additional amp is a waste of time, the headphone jack is good enough, I've tried using an additional portable amp. But I can't really hear the difference when I add an additional amp to an Ipod or iPad. So I'm not really surprised that you get good results with the Razor and the AT770s. So why make it complicated? Like I said, just my opinion.
   
  Keep plugging at it, I'm sure a lot of these guys are of the same mind.
  If you want to start up a new thread, feel free too! 
  That's what Head Fi is for!
   
  And as for Head Fi having the collective knowledge of a PhD Electrical Engineer...............not even close. Unfortunately there is tons of mis-information on Head Fi. But there is also tons of useful information.  Just like the rest of the Internet.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Why not? Producers can have their off time too. And not to mention nowadays we can almost assume the general population uses more bass heavy stuff anyway, so having recordings that sound good on bass boosted headphones sounds like a decent idea? You gotta see if from the average consumer standpoint sometimes.


 
   
  Apologies, but I am not a basshead..........the basshead sound just isn't my thing.
  What can I say?
  I just don't roll that way.............


----------



## kalbee

chris j said:


> Apologies, but I am not a basshead..........the basshead sound just isn't my thing.
> What can I say?
> I just don't roll that way.............:confused_face:



Haha me neither, though I'm not a treble head either.
One makes me dizzy and the other gives me headaches :S


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Haha me neither, though I'm not a treble head either.
> One makes me dizzy and the other gives me headaches :S


 
  Any midrangeheads out there? And what would too much midrange give you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Calling all midrangeheads................
   
  Come to think of it, if you heard my speakers you might say "Are you a closet midrangehead?"
  I would say, "no, I'm a flathead!"


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is it better to use 0 Gain and a high volume or 6db Gain and less volume?


 

 Good question! I was going back and forth between 0 and 6db on both the E17 and E09K and prefer everything on 0db as it keeps the dynamic range of a recording intact, even if the bass often lacks punch. That said, I found too much DR can be a problem too. I guess it also depends on how loud a recording was mastered in the first place.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Any midrangeheads out there? And what would too much midrange give you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Too much midrange? What's that?!
  Okay okay, too much mids is easier to accept but some good balance is still required.
   
  If you're a flathead then you must be a midrangehead, since we're most sensitive to midrange!
  Unless you're the driver variant, then I don't know what you might be sensitive to. Will have to look at your specs sheet!


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Up to you. 0 gain allows for more steps to control volume


 
  Is volume the only difference?


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

How much do the Bass/Treble adjustments actually affect the sound? eg for the M50 how much would I have to lower/change the bass and treble to get it as neutral as possible?


----------



## bowei006

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is volume the only difference?



I believe Clieos noted that 12dB gain had a slight bit more bass responce. Its in his review on the first page.



asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> How much do the Bass/Treble adjustments actually affect the sound? eg for the M50 how much would I have to lower/change the bass and treble to get it as neutral as possible?



It affects sound like an eq would. You need to personally use it to personally make an opinion.


----------



## uglyjoe0124

Judt thought I would let you know that I purchased an e17 of amazon and I checked on the web site and it shows up as fake.just great I thought


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Too much midrange? What's that?!
> Okay okay, too much mids is easier to accept but some good balance is still required.
> 
> If you're a flathead then you must be a midrangehead, since we're most sensitive to midrange!
> Unless you're the driver variant, then I don't know what you might be sensitive to. Will have to look at your specs sheet!


 
   
  My specs:
  20 Hz - 20 kHz, +/- 0.1 dB
  20 Hz - 20 kHz, +/- 15 degrees phase shift
  S/N:    >96 dB
  THD:  < 0.001 % @ 1 kHz
  IM:     < 0.001 % @ 1 kHz
  SID:    < 0.001 % @ 1 kHz
  TIM:    <  0.001 % @ 1 kHz, broadband curves available upon request.
  I must be nuts......what's wrong with me.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hmmm, maybe we should start a thread for fun and fun only, no judgement:
  Thread will allow people to vote on:
  are you a basshead
  are you a treblehead
  are you a midrange head
  are you a flathead.....which is really a midrange head?
  please discuss your choice


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





uglyjoe0124 said:


> Judt thought I would let you know that I purchased an e17 of amazon and I checked on the web site and it shows up as fake.just great I thought


 
  The website will tell you its fake if the code has been inputted more than twice. That is what it said for me. 
   
  I don't think there are any fake E17's? What did the message say?


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> How much do the Bass/Treble adjustments actually affect the sound? eg for the M50 how much would I have to lower/change the bass and treble to get it as neutral as possible?


 

 I have been trying to use them with my 770s (they are on burn in right now....I'm trying to get in some serious burn in time before I try to dial them in again) and the sound is quite neutral.
   
  The changes greatly affect the sound and one thing I thought weird the scale is -10 to +10 but pushing plus move you up by two so fine tuning doesn't seem to be a good goal, just look for the sound you want.   You can effect a wide degree of change between the 3 EQ setting and the gain. Changing the gain will change how the EQ is working as well.
   
  Mostly I just replied to this to say Thanks Guys!  For lightening up on me.  The E17 is perfect if you have a laptop I just didn't get the amp part and I'll keep playing with it with different cans.
  My goal would be to get a nicely colored signal and control over those big bass drivers in the 770. 
   
  Amyway you guys are cool, real people, to call me out as a troll and then get real about it is a super cool thing to do that you don't see very often in online communities.  That shows me this one must be pretty solid.
   
  Thanks
   
  -Pablo


----------



## pabloaugustus

Quote: 





ippudo said:


> Good question! I was going back and forth between 0 and 6db on both the E17 and E09K and prefer everything on 0db as it keeps the dynamic range of a recording intact, even if the bass often lacks punch. That said, I found too much DR can be a problem too. I guess it also depends on how loud a recording was mastered in the first place.


 

 Thats true.  If you weren't concerned about dynamic range and just needed it louder I think you'd have more punch by going with 6DB.  A lot of this reminds me how car stereos are best setup,
  That is if you have a stereo its best to put in an AMP and listen at volume 10 on your deck than just crank your deck to 20.
   
  But I should probably just shut up while I'm ahead.... 
   
  -peace


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





chris j said:


> My specs:
> 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +/- 0.1 dB
> 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +/- 15 degrees phase shift
> S/N:    >96 dB
> ...


 
  You lost me there lol.
  Oh, I see what you did. Rather, seems I lost you in the previous one. Of course by a flathead driver I meant those used to fasten screws 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  So no you're not nuts, you're drivers. Need a wrench for nuts.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Chris J* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hmmm, maybe we should start a thread for fun and fun only, no judgement:
> Thread will allow people to vote on:
> ...


 
  If you do make that thread, PM me the link LOL.
   
  I guess we should stop rolling this thread into the hay.
   
   
  Speaking of which, dropped my E17 the other day :< -slightly- dented the back face. Unlucky that I dropped it on some steel bolt in the bus. Just a scratch, works perfectly, still looks perfect without a proper inspection, move on!


----------



## uglyjoe0124

The web site came up with a box with a smiley face but it was a sad smiley face and it said it was fake.that was the first time I input the code.
I was going to email Fiio and get them to check the code out for me and if its fake let them know who it was of Amazon.
I have emailed the shop on amazon but they have not come back to me.
They have three days in which to get back to me.
I'm using it with my ipad and a new set of beyers.
Thing is I went on to iTunes and reloaded all my music in 320k so I don't know if its the fiio that's improved the sound of the fiio.
I have an E7 so will try that and compare the 2


----------



## Chris J

kalbee said:


> You lost me there lol.
> Oh, I see what you did. Rather, seems I lost you in the previous one. Of course by a flathead driver I meant those used to fasten screws
> So no you're not nuts, you're drivers. Need a wrench for nuts.
> 
> ...




Sounds like I'm just weirdly eccentric!, 

I'll try and start that thread tonight!

Glad to hear that your E17 still works, sorry about the scratch though. At least you didn't drop it on the front face...........that would be...:mad:


----------



## awtryau89

OK guys, sorry if this has been addressed. I searched but did not find any definitive answers.
   
  I want to purchase an E17 and use as my primary portable. I would feed it with an iPhone 5 exclusively. 
   
  Question 1: Will the E17 decode a USB signal from the iPhone5?
   
  Question 2: Is there a full size USB adapter from Fiio? I saw some sort of adapter in the pics in the thread.
   
  I understand that there are lightning to USB adapters from Apple but those have the DAC built in and I want to send a straight digital signal to the E17. 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## kalbee

awtryau89 said:


> OK guys, sorry if this has been addressed. I searched but did not find any definitive answers.
> 
> I want to purchase an E17 and use as my primary portable. I would feed it with an iPhone 5 exclusively.
> 
> ...



I don't think the lightning connector has any line out leads to it so there is probably no USB means for it yet. But even for 30pin connection iDevices using LOD's, I believe only those $500+ amp models can get straight digital signal out. The price point is likely in large due to the cost Apple charged them to activate that function.

As usual, if my answer is inaccurate or incorrect, feel free to correct and enlighten me!


----------



## awtryau89

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> I don't think the lightning connector has any line out leads to it so there is probably no USB means for it yet. But even for 30pin connection iDevices using LOD's, I believe only those $500+ amp models can get straight digital signal out. The price point is likely in large due to the cost Apple charged them to activate that function.
> As usual, if my answer is inaccurate or incorrect, feel free to correct and enlighten me!


 
  I can use my phone in my 2012 model car lightning directly to USB. No adapter required so I am guessing there is a digital signal there to decode. The Go-DAP X also decodes directly from USB on a standard lightning cable. I was hoping someone had tried this with the E17. I was also hoping there was an adapter similar to http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/lightbox/post/8513984/id/640046/user/177424


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





awtryau89 said:


> OK guys, sorry if this has been addressed. I searched but did not find any definitive answers.
> 
> I want to purchase an E17 and use as my primary portable. I would feed it with an iPhone 5 exclusively.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Unfortunately the E17 is not Apple compatible, i.e. it will not read a digital audio bitstream off an iPhone or iPod.
  I have a cable that goes between my iPod and the E17, but it takes an analog signal from the multi pin connector on the iPod.
   
  I have an iBasso D12 DAC, it is not Apple compatible either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Apparently you can buy a *camera connector kit from Apple* which you plug into an iPad. It, in turn, has a USB port on it, but you need to add some type of special USB port adaptor thingy to go to a DAC with a USB input, apparently you cannot draw much current from the iPad's multi pin connector, and most USB connections draw too much current.  Apparently these adaptors are not expensive.
   
  Several years ago I bought a Wadia 170i dock.  Back then it was the only game in town, other than using the analog (headphone) output on the iPod. 
  You put your iPhone or iPod into the dock, the dock has an RCA SPDIF digital output, which you can plug into any DAC with an RCA SPDIF digital input.
  Bad news, the Wadia 170i is $tupid expen$ive. Maybe you can find a used one on the market?   This sounds way better than using the iPod's headphone jack. 
   
  Somewhere on Head Fi there is a thread with a title something like "What DACs are Apple compatible?".  This thread has information which can explain this better than I can............I'm not a digital hardware expert!


----------



## awtryau89

Thanks. Maybe Fiio will make the E18 iDevice compatible. I am going to have to go to the Go-DAP X route I guess. Its the least expensive alternative right now yet still about 4 times the E17. Should have stuck with my iPhone 4S.


----------



## bowei006

awtryau89 said:


> Thanks. Maybe Fiio will make the E18 iDevice compatible. I am going to have to go to the Go-DAP X route I guess. Its the least expensive alternative right now yet still about 4 times the E17. Should have stuck with my iPhone 4S.



As of right now it cant. You nee to apply for a lisence with them. They have applied every year I believe but Apple doesnt trust Chinese companies


awtryau89 said:


> OK guys, sorry if this has been addressed. I searched but did not find any definitive answers.
> 
> I want to purchase an E17 and use as my primary portable. I would feed it with an iPhone 5 exclusively.
> 
> ...



No. 

That is the L7 i think you saw. It bypasses E17/E7/E07K amplifiers so you can use your own amp.


----------



## ippudo

Quote: 





pabloaugustus said:


> Thats true.  If you weren't concerned about dynamic range and just needed it louder I think you'd have more punch by going with 6DB.  A lot of this reminds me how car stereos are best setup,
> That is if you have a stereo its best to put in an AMP and listen at volume 10 on your deck than just crank your deck to 20.
> 
> But I should probably just shut up while I'm ahead....
> ...


 

 On a side note: I'm doing the occasional voiceover and a bit of music with my ancient analogue recorder and a while ago a top-notch engineer set the input gain of my microphone extremely low and instead increased the volume quite considerably via the volume control. This made the background hiss very noticeable. He then suggested to kill the noise in SoundForge with the noise reduction plugin.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





ippudo said:


> On a side note: I'm doing the occasional voiceover and a bit of music with my ancient analogue recorder and a while ago a top-notch engineer set the input gain of my microphone extremely low and instead increased the volume quite considerably via the volume control. This made the background hiss very noticeable. He then suggested to kill the noise in SoundForge with the noise reduction plugin.


 
   
  Yikes!
  He doesn't sound top notch to me!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Sorry, I don't mean to throw the guy under the bus, but really!
  Gain should be set so the mic pre-amp does not clip.
  There is always a compromise between lowest noise and least amount of clipping/overload.
  I haven't worked in a recording studio for over 25 years......but that guideline never changes.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





awtryau89 said:


> OK guys, sorry if this has been addressed. I searched but did not find any definitive answers.
> 
> I want to purchase an E17 and use as my primary portable. I would feed it with an iPhone 5 exclusively.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Try this out, the fount of all DAC and iPad compatiblity knowledge, it has some iPod and iPhone stuff buried in there.............somewhere:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/507559/list-of-dacs-that-work-with-ipad/345#post_8151477
   
  Beware............this thread goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on............you get the idea. But it's an excellent source of knowledge.


----------



## Chris J

Hey,
  Just thought I would start an opinion poll for fun:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/642455/are-you-a-basshead-or-a-treblehead-or-a-midrange-head-a-flathead-or#post_8983027
   
  I hope you vote and post your opinion and thoughts, no judgement, it's just for some fun.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers,
  Chris J


----------



## jasonb

Showing some E17 love!


----------



## Allucid

Quote: 





clieos said:


> -snip-


 
  Thanks for this, I got my E17 today because your review helped me choose it.
  Merry Christmas, as your present for helping me choose mine, here you go!:


----------



## Prakhar

allucid said:


> Thanks for this, I got my E17 today because your review helped me choose it.
> Merry Christmas, as your present for helping me choose mine, here you go!:




are those crossfade LPs or M100s?


----------



## Chris J

Got my E17 an E09K for Christmas (OK, the E09K was really for me)!

So far it's a great compliment for my 600 Ohm Beyer DT880 and AKG Q701 headphones.
No real compliants, very good headphone amp for the $$$.

Happy Holidays, folks!


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





allucid said:


> Thanks for this, I got my E17 today because your review helped me choose it.
> Merry Christmas, as your present for helping me choose mine, here you go!:


 
   
  M80 sound very good with E17. and also HD598.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Showing some E17 love!


 
   
   
  very good combo and the photos.


----------



## thehogester

Got my E17 today and love it! Want some new headphones now! Lol!


----------



## Allucid

prakhar said:


> are those crossfade LPs or M100s?




The LP2s with custom shields. LP2s are better for my amp, If I used the m100s with my e17's settings it would either sound the same as the LP2s, or blow my head off. If I had the m100s, which I don't, and I'm not going to buy them for is the fact it's flat bouncy audiophile sound, not professional DJ sound the LP2s have. 

If you're going to get the LP2s, I recommend getting something like the e17 to improve the highs and lows. Since the lp2 is a bassy headphone, more bass by +2 can't do any harm. 

The bass sounds amazing with my itouch + lp2 + eq'd e17, generally it's much better than without an amp.


----------



## Allucid

What is the best settings for the e17?; such as gain, bass etc. I listen to a lot of electronic music and rap/hip-hop. I want my vmoda lp2s to sound better overall.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





allucid said:


> What is the best settings for the e17?; such as gain, bass etc. I listen to a lot of electronic music and rap/hip-hop. I want my vmoda lp2s to sound better overall.


 
  It varies by taste, headphones and music.
   
  There is not best setting.
   
  Someone could listen ot Deadmou5 and use completely different settings. A sensitive IEM user would use 0 Gain probably while another may do different.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





allucid said:


> What is the best settings for the e17?; such as gain, bass etc. I listen to a lot of electronic music and rap/hip-hop. I want my vmoda lp2s to sound better overall.


 
  Basically what Bowei said.
  You can try fiddling with the settings to find what *you find best sounding* with your LP2s. Each headphone and each user will have different overall preference, so as long as you can match your own preferred settings then you're good to go


----------



## Allucid

Thing I've found, the highs are defiantly better on 0 everything, but my 4 bass 6 treble and 6 or 12 gain have worked so far.

I tried listening to a whole song, then using my iPod without the amp, and I think the e17s in-built soundboard override may be limiting my lp2s. Is this even possible?


----------



## Allucid

jamesfiio said:


> M80 sound very good with E17. and also HD598.


 a thing I've found; the highs are defiantly better on 0 everything, but my 4 bass 6 treble and 6 or 12 gain have worked so far.
I tried listening to a whole song, then using my iPod without the amp, and I think the e17s in-built soundboard override may be limiting my lp2s. Is this even possible?


Also, any word on your iPod audio adapters {the one that's like an ipod sync cable but with an aux input on the other side} going Lightning cable? I own a 5g iPod touch and find it annoying that I can't get a better sound because apple changed the connector made it nearly impossible to clone it. I Asked one of the techs in the apple store, he said it has the exact same voltage as the old 30pin adapter.


----------



## m8o

For what it's worth...
   
  I'm never going back to [Source -> analog headphone or line-out -> E17 line-in], since getting my Cowon D3 and its proprietary A/V cable that I bought to drive the E17.  It enables me to stream digital from most any type of files [preferably FLAC] to the E17 via a S/PDIF coax.  And better still I was so very happy to discover the digital EQ and BBE+ effects performed in the Wolfrom DAC are all in effect over the coax out [i.e. the pre 'AC' part of the monolithic Wolfrom DAC] ; based on the block diagram of the DAC chip I thought the S/PDIF out was before the effects section but that proved not the case. So I  can use the semi-parametric EQ of the D3 to do fine tuning that may be needed for the phones I'm using @ the tine, but leave the overall treble/bass tonality 'finishing' of the sound to the E17.  
   
  I use the D3/E17 combo w/my Focal Spirit One headphones the most, which I think is a very overlooked headphone but IMO is the most engaging & do-all / capable headphone that is brought alive with small tweeks of the D3's digital semi-parametric EQ, some JetAudio enhancements, and the E17's power.  Simply amazing "crisp -to- head shaking" sound from the whole package and quality music tracks like FLACS of the whole re-mastered Steely Dan collection, or of say a 2-channel PCM rip of the Cream @ the Royal Albert Hall DVD, or board recordings of concerts mastered and sold by the artists.  I don't think I've ever had the "I'm @ the concert' experience from headphones like i have now; especially given at least one set of FLACs I have is from when i was @ the concert and I can compare what I hear now to what I heard there when live.  And the E17 plays a vital role in achieving that. Anyone in the NYC area is welcome to hear what has me so over the moon @ the upcoming meet in Bablyon.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





m8o said:


> For what it's worth...
> 
> I'm never going back to [Source -> analog headphone or line-out -> E17 line-in], since getting my Cowon D3 and its proprietary A/V cable that I bought to drive the E17.  It enables me to stream digital from most any type of files [preferably FLAC] to the E17 via a S/PDIF coax.  And better still I was so very happy to discover the digital EQ and BBE+ effects performed in the Wolfrom DAC are all in effect over the coax out [i.e. the pre 'AC' part of the monolithic Wolfrom DAC] ; based on the block diagram of the DAC chip I thought the S/PDIF out was before the effects section but that proved not the case. So I  can use the semi-parametric EQ of the D3 to do fine tuning that may be needed for the phones I'm using @ the tine, but leave the overall treble/bass tonality 'finishing' of the sound to the E17.
> 
> I use the D3/E17 combo w/my Focal Spirit One headphones the most, which I think is a very overlooked headphone but IMO is the most engaging & do-all / capable headphone that is brought alive with small tweeks of the D3's digital semi-parametric EQ, some JetAudio enhancements, and the E17's power.  Simply amazing "crisp -to- head shaking" sound from the whole package and quality music tracks like FLACS of the whole re-mastered Steely Dan collection, or of say a 2-channel PCM rip of the Cream @ the Royal Albert Hall DVD, or board recordings of concerts mastered and sold by the artists.  I don't think I've ever had the "I'm @ the concert' experience from headphones like i have now; especially given at least one set of FLACs I have is from when i was @ the concert and I can compare what I hear now to what I heard there when live.  And the E17 plays a vital role in achieving that. Anyone in the NYC area is welcome to hear what has me so over the moon @ the upcoming meet in *Bablyon.*


 

   
  I'll meet you there. (Pic from Babylon A.D)


----------



## AgentXXL

Hi all! I'm back on the forums after almost 8 months away due to illness. Glad to see that this thread is still live. I've been using my E17 all along and just loving it with my 250 ohm DT770s from Beyerdynamic. But the real surprise was when I tried the E17 with my new Sennheiser HD800s!

This little DAC/AMP just keeps on surprising me. I've heard the HD800s on a Schiitt Lyr and fell in love with them. And that kept me from buying them because I thought I'd need to buy a new amp too. Much to my delight, that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm away visiting family as I write this but I suspect I'll be even happier when I get home and dock my E17 in my E9.

I know at some point I'll upgrade to a higher end desktop amp, but based on how it sounds right now, the E17 will be my portable amp/dac of choice when/if I take my HD800s with me.

Thanks Fiio for an amazing portable amp/dac!

Dale (aka AgentXXL)


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Hi all! I'm back on the forums after almost 8 months away due to illness. Glad to see that this thread is still live. I've been using my E17 all along and just loving it with my 250 ohm DT770s from Beyerdynamic. But the real surprise was when I tried the E17 with my new Sennheiser HD800s!
> This little DAC/AMP just keeps on surprising me. I've heard the HD800s on a Schiitt Lyr and fell in love with them. And that kept me from buying them because I thought I'd need to buy a new amp too. Much to my delight, that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm away visiting family as I write this but I suspect I'll be even happier when I get home and dock my E17 in my E9.
> I know at some point I'll upgrade to a higher end desktop amp, but based on how it sounds right now, the E17 will be my portable amp/dac of choice when/if I take my HD800s with me.
> Thanks Fiio for an amazing portable amp/dac!
> Dale (aka AgentXXL)


 
   
  Thanks, be careful to yourself .


----------



## GSARider

Hey Dale, that's great to hear! My HD800's arrive after the 15th of January and I've been hearing various sources saying that the E17 + E09K won't drive the HD800's. I love the sound from both on my my Amperiors & IE80's, so looking forward to hearing them.
   
  Have you had a chance to try them with anything else?
   
  Good to also hear you're recovering...!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Hey Dale, that's great to hear! My HD800's arrive after the 15th of January and I've been hearing various sources saying that the E17 + E09K won't drive the HD800's. I love the sound from both on my my Amperiors & IE80's, so looking forward to hearing them.
> 
> Have you had a chance to try them with anything else?
> 
> Good to also hear you're recovering...!


 
   
  Technically, the E17 and E09K will have no trouble driving a pair of HD880s to insane volumes quite cleanly.
  If someone wants to say they don't like the sound of that system driving a pair of HD800, fair enough, that's their opinion.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Hey Dale, that's great to hear! My HD800's arrive after the 15th of January and I've been hearing various sources saying that the E17 + E09K won't drive the HD800's. I love the sound from both on my my Amperiors & IE80's, so looking forward to hearing them.
> 
> Have you had a chance to try them with anything else?


 
   
  I've heard them on a DarkVoice - I think it was an older 336 model a 337SE, but I'll admit to not being a huge tube amp fan. The Schiitt Lyr is the only tube amp I've heard that I'm somewhat fond of. That said I haven't heard many tube amps. I'm really not into the whole 'experimentation' routine of rolling tubes so a solid state amp is more up my alley. When I picked up my HD800s I took a brief look at the Schiit Mjolnir and it looks pretty impressive and appears to be a real good match for the HD800 based on forum reviews. Not necessarily the best though - I'd love to try out the Headamp GS-X. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've also heard the HD800 with the Ray Samuels Audio SR-71B Blackbird - the balanced version of that portable amp. Certainly the SR-71B has some amazing power and it's possible that I might end up purchasing one at some point in the future.
   
  That said, I'm still extremely impressed with the E17. I'll admit that I didn't think it could touch the HD800 but it's having very little difficulty. I've used it with a LOD out of my iPhone (painful thanks to Apple changing to the Lightning connector) and via USB from my MacBook Pro. Unfortunately all of my hi-res audio is at home on an external hard drive that I didn't want to bring with me. I'll have to wait until I get home to be even further amazed. Or maybe I'll just breakdown and buy a few new albums from HDTracks while I'm on vacation! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hope you enjoy yours as much as I am mine.
   
  Dale (aka AgentXXL)


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Technically, the E17 and E09K will have no trouble driving a pair of HD880s to insane volumes quite cleanly.
> If someone wants to say they don't like the sound of that system driving a pair of HD800, fair enough, that's their opinion.


 
   
  I'm glad you clarified it with 'technically' - as we all know, amps, DACs, and potentially cables all can color both the signature and soundstage of any headphone. While I'm sure that the E17 + E9 (or newer E09K) will have no problem powering the HD800, I'm almost 100% certain that I won't get the soundstage that I would with something like the Schiitt Mjolnir or especially the Headamp GS-X. The GS-X is really out of my price range for the time being but the Mjolnir is achievable if I put myself to the task. They too will technically drive the HD800 but with a more open soundstage and potentially less coloring of the sound signature.
   
  That said, I'm looking forward to getting home and seeing what the extra power of the E9 can do. If the E17 alone is this amazing, it and the E9 together should be quite the treat for the time being.
   
  Dale (aka AgentXXL)


----------



## GSARider

Thanks Dale, hope to hear how your 800's sound with the combo of Fiio's.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Thanks Dale, hope to hear how your 800's sound with the combo of Fiio's.


 
   
  Alas that won't be until late next week - have to get my E9 back from a friend who borrowed it right away! When I asked at HeadphoneBar the other day, they claim that the E9 and E09K have the same power and soundstage, so my E17/E9 should tell you how your E17/E09K combo should sound. Of course your ears may (and likely do) differ in what they hear... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Dale (aka AgentXXL)


----------



## GSARider

I'm slowly saving up for the HDVD 800 and will get it in May or June time. Having spent a small fortune on gadgetry in the past three months, SWMBO has said no more toys...


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I'm glad you clarified it with 'technically' - as we all know, amps, DACs, and potentially cables all can color both the signature and soundstage of any headphone. While I'm sure that the E17 + E9 (or newer E09K) will have no problem powering the HD800, I'm almost 100% certain that I won't get the soundstage that I would with something like the Schiitt Mjolnir or especially the Headamp GS-X. The GS-X is really out of my price range for the time being but the Mjolnir is achievable if I put myself to the task. They too will technically drive the HD800 but with a more open soundstage and potentially less coloring of the sound signature.
> 
> That said, I'm looking forward to getting home and seeing what the extra power of the E9 can do. If the E17 alone is this amazing, it and the E9 together should be quite the treat for the time being.
> 
> Dale (aka AgentXXL)


 
   
  Secret Agent XXL,
  Sure, all I will really say about the E17 and E09K combo is that it is a *great* setup for $270 Cdn.
  But based on my *short* listening session with a pair of HD800 I think they deserve a better amp and DAC, but you know the drill, open your wallet real wide to get something better.
  OTOH, when I first heard a pair the owner was happily listening to them thru an iPhone. He seemed to have survived the experience with no ill effects, LOL!  I'm 99% sure I used my La Figaro 336C to listen to the HD800. I would guess a better amp would do them justice.
  C J


----------



## Mani ATH 87

I've been using the Fiio E17 with my Audio Technica A900X's and it sounds great on my desktop. I feel like the A900X's benefit greatly from the slight bass increase from the E17 (I wouldn't say they lack bass, but the slight boost from the E17 puts it right where I like it). I also really like the slight gain increase VS strict volume increase. I don't listen to music at super loud levels so take that for what it is. I've tried the E17 at volume levels 35-40 vs 25-30 with 6dB gain and I much prefer the lower volume with a bit of gain. The music definitely has more impact with the slight gain boost, the clarity and punchy-ness of the bass sounds better to me then the flat volume increase. I know that some people prefer no gain, I just think this set up sounds better for me personally. Any more then 6dB gain and the phones are simply to loud for my tastes.

 Headphones: Audio Technica ATH A900X 
 Fiio E17 settings: Bass + 4, Treble +2, Gain +6dB (sometimes drop the treble back to zero depending on the music, but usually +2) Volume 25-30.
 Source: Foobar2k WASAPI (event) output - volume 0.00dB Windows volume also at max. 

 Music: Hip Hop, Electronic, R&B, Blues, Reggae, pretty wide variety.


----------



## jasonb

I've never actually compared the gain settings, but I also use my E17 on 6db gain in the 25-30 range with a Q701 with a +2 bass boost. 
   
  I love this little amp.
  Quote: 





mani ath 87 said:


> I've been using the Fiio E17 with my Audio Technica A900X's and it sounds great on my desktop. I feel like the A900X's benefit greatly from the slight bass increase from the E17 (I wouldn't say they lack bass, but the slight boost from the E17 puts it right where I like it). I also really like the slight gain increase VS strict volume increase. I don't listen to music at super loud levels so take that for what it is. I've tried the E17 at volume levels 35-40 vs 25-30 with 6dB gain and I much prefer the lower volume with a bit of gain. The music definitely has more impact with the slight gain boost, the clarity and punchy-ness of the bass sounds better to me then the flat volume increase. I know that some people prefer no gain, I just think this set up sounds better for me personally. Any more then 6dB gain and the phones are simply to loud for my tastes.
> 
> Headphones: Audio Technica ATH A900X
> Fiio E17 settings: Bass + 4, Treble +2, Gain +6dB (sometimes drop the treble back to zero depending on the music, but usually +2) Volume 25-30.
> ...


----------



## AgentXXL

chris j said:


> Secret Agent XXL,
> Sure, all I will really say about the E17 and E09K combo is that it is a *great* setup for $270 Cdn.
> But based on my *short* listening session with a pair of HD800 I think they deserve a better amp and DAC, but you know the drill, open your wallet real wide to get something better.
> OTOH, when I first heard a pair the owner was happily listening to them thru an iPhone. He seemed to have survived the experience with no ill effects, LOL!  I'm 99% sure I used my La Figaro 336C to listen to the HD800. I would guess a better amp would do them justice.
> C J




I definitely agree that the E17/E9 combo is amazing value for the money - 1000%! That said. I suspect even Fiio themselves would agree that a higher power amplifier like the Lyr or Mjolnir will really make demanding headphones shine. For now though, at least based on using the E17 by itself, the combo of it and the E9 will no doubt meet my short to medium term needs.

Funny you mention the first time hearing the HD800 was from an owner using an iPhone. I'm sure the guys at the Headphone Bar thought I was nuts wanting to briefly re-audition the HD800 in-store with my iPhone. There was method to my madness though - I had my E17 attached via LOD (and 30 pin to Lightning converter no thanks to Apple) and was able to listen to music I was familiar with, including some of my favorite lossless tracks. That's when I realized just how special the little E17 was... it floored me that the HD800s could sound this good being driven by the iPhone/E17 combo. Personally I can't imagine usine the iPhone without the E17, but to each their own devices. 

I've never heard of a La Figaro 336C - is it worth me looking into?

Dale (aka AgentXXL)


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

It's better for the battery if I keep charging to full and running it out instead of leaving it on USB charge all the time right?


----------



## AgentXXL

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> It's better for the battery if I keep charging to full and running it out instead of leaving it on USB charge all the time right?




Yes - batteries have a limited number of charge cycles during their lifetime. The only thing to try and remember with the E17 is the battery should never be completely drained, an inherent 'gotcha' of modern battery technology. Just use your E17 on battery until it turns off and then it's time to recharge it, assuming most of your use is portable. If running as a DAC when at my desk, I do admit to leaving USB charging on so it's fully topped up next time I take the E17 portable. Alas I'll lose a few charge cycles this way but that's a choice I can live with.

Dale (aka AgentXXL)


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Yes - batteries have a limited number of charge cycles during their lifetime. The only thing to try and remember with the E17 is the battery should never be completely drained, an inherent 'gotcha' of modern battery technology. Just use your E17 on battery until it turns off and then it's time to recharge it, assuming most of your use is portable. If running as a DAC when at my desk, I do admit to leaving USB charging on so it's fully topped up next time I take the E17 portable. Alas I'll lose a few charge cycles this way but that's a choice I can live with.
> Dale (aka AgentXXL)


 
  I mainly use it as desktop DAC so it is better to use almost all the battery instead of leaving it charging? What is a charge cycle?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I definitely agree that the E17/E9 combo is amazing value for the money - 1000%! That said. I suspect even Fiio themselves would agree that a higher power amplifier like the Lyr or Mjolnir will really make demanding headphones shine. For now though, at least based on using the E17 by itself, the combo of it and the E9 will no doubt meet my short to medium term needs.
> Funny you mention the first time hearing the HD800 was from an owner using an iPhone. I'm sure the guys at the Headphone Bar thought I was nuts wanting to briefly re-audition the HD800 in-store with my iPhone. There was method to my madness though - I had my E17 attached via LOD (and 30 pin to Lightning converter no thanks to Apple) and was able to listen to music I was familiar with, including some of my favorite lossless tracks. That's when I realized just how special the little E17 was... it floored me that the HD800s could sound this good being driven by the iPhone/E17 combo. Personally I can't imagine usine the iPhone without the E17, but to each their own devices.
> I've never heard of a La Figaro 336C - is it worth me looking into?
> Dale (aka AgentXXL)


 
   
  Secret Agent Dale,
   
  I've been to the Planet Of Sound in T.O. a few times (I had to beam down from my Planet of Cold Hard Reality) and have auditioned numerous 'phones at numerous price points using my iPod. Thankfully I did not get any funny looks, but they were also happy to let me listen to better 'phones via an Audiolab CD player.
   
  The La Figaro is a very decent OTL tube amp for $300.00. Really works bets with higher impedance 'phones: 250 Ohms and up.  You would do well to do some tube rolling though with some NOS tubes. It only take 2 tubes and you can get them for approx $20-30 each.
  OTOH, the La Figaro 336C is not as good as some of the stuff Woo Audio does, but Woo Audio can get $$$.
   
  C


----------



## AgentXXL

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> I mainly use it as desktop DAC so it is better to use almost all the battery instead of leaving it charging? What is a charge cycle?




A charge cycle occurs each time the battery is charged to full capacity, whether the the battery was fully depleted or not. The exception is trickle charging which occurs with some battery types, but not the E17's battery.

Since you use your E17 mainly at your desktop it's best in my mind to try and always have it fully charged. I would turn USB charging on (assuming you are connected via USB) and then each time you turn the E17 on it will initiate a charge cycle to keep the battery fully charged. Regardless, you can usually expect the battery to need replacement between the 3 - 5 year mark.

I use my E17 docked to my E9 at my desktop so mine does the same thing - it initiates a charge cycle every time I turn the E17 on. This makes sure the battery is always fully charged for when I want to take it portable. When on the road like I am now, I only recharge the E17 after a minimum of 20 hours of listening time. The longest my E17 has lasted on one charge is almost 24 hours of listening - pretty impressive!

Hope that helps you.

Dale


----------



## AgentXXL

chris j said:


> Secret Agent Dale,
> 
> I've been to the Planet Of Sound in T.O. a few times (I had to beam down from my Planet of Cold Hard Reality) and have auditioned numerous 'phones at numerous price points using my iPod. Thankfully I did not get any funny looks, but they were also happy to let me listen to better 'phones via an Audiolab CD player.
> 
> ...




Next time I'm in TO I'll definitely try to stop by Planet of Sound. I was there a couple of years ago but didn't really have the time to try and audition any equipment. On my next trip I'll make sure I have the time to do so. Thanks for the info on the La Figaro. Alas as I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm not into experimenting with tube rolling and seem to be happy with the solid state amps I've listened to.

Dale


----------



## gibosi

Sonic Electronix is selling the E17 for $105.00


----------



## jasonb

Nice! Great price for a great device.
  Quote: 





gibosi said:


> Sonic Electronix is selling the E17 for $105.00


----------



## Mani ATH 87

What settings are people using on the Fiio E17, and with which headphones? (bass, treble, gain, vol, etc. - I'm assuming most people don't change the balance, lol)

 I can never decide on perfect settings myself.


----------



## jasonb

There are no best settings, but for me, with my Q701 I use the medium gain setting, +2 or +4 bass depending on what I am listening to. I usually listen with the volume around 25-30 with the gain on the medium setting.
  Quote: 





mani ath 87 said:


> What settings are people using on the Fiio E17, *and with which headphones*? (bass, treble, gain, vol, etc. - I'm assuming most people don't change the balance, lol)
> 
> I can never decide on perfect settings myself.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> There are no best settings, but for me, with my Q701 I use the medium gain setting, +2 or +4 bass depending on what I am listening to. I usually listen with the volume around 25-30 with the gain on the medium setting.


 

 I know that there are no best settings universally across all headphones. Everyone prefers different a different sound profile, and with different types of music and cans, there is a ton of variation. Just interested to know what people are doing with their own headphones and tastes.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

I'm not sure if I should use 0 gain, 6 and 12 gain add even more distortion though.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> I'm not sure if I should use 0 gain, 6 and 12 gain add even more distortion though.


 
   
  If 6 and 12 gain add distortion, you obviously shouldn't use them. 

 I have the gain set on 6 with my cans, I feel like it adds clarity and nice punch to the bass as opposed to a straight volume increase. I wouldn't worry to much about using no gain though, many people prefer to have no added gain.

 If you have low impedance headphones (which it sounds like you do if gain causes distortion) you probably don't need any addition gain.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Is E09K+E17 really better than E17 by itself?


----------



## AgentXXL

mani ath 87 said:


> What settings are people using on the Fiio E17, and with which headphones? (bass, treble, gain, vol, etc. - I'm assuming most people don't change the balance, lol)
> 
> I can never decide on perfect settings myself.




As mentioned by others, there's no such thing as 'the best settings'. It's entirely personal - some like EQ, some hate it. Some like the extra oomph of additional gain, others can't stand the extra distortion it might add to their setup. And let's not forget about our ears - pretty much a given that no two people will hear the exact same nuances from a given setup. That said, these are the settings I use:

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250 ohm - gain 6, bass +4, treble +2
Sennheiser HD800 300 ohm - gain 12, bass +8, treble -2
Shure SE530 IEMs - gain 0, bass +2, treble 0

Volume is almost always between 25 - 35 for the E17 alone and 1/3 to 2/3 on the volume pot when docked on my E9.

Dale


----------



## AgentXXL

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is E09K+E17 really better than E17 by itself?




The E17 + E09K combo has the advantage of being able to better power the more demanding headphones. Certainly the E09K and it's predecessor the E9 are not the highest power amps, but from my past experience the extra oomph they provide was well worth the extra $100 or so to accompany the E17. If you don't think you need the extra power but still want a clean line out from the E17, then get an L7 dongle which allows you to keep your E17 powered via USB while providing a 3.5mm line out jack.

Dale


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> The E17 + E09K combo has the advantage of being able to better power the more demanding headphones. Certainly the E09K and it's predecessor the E9 are not the highest power amps, but from my past experience the extra oomph they provide was well worth the extra $100 or so to accompany the E17. If you don't think you need the extra power but still want a clean line out from the E17, then get an L7 dongle which allows you to keep your E17 powered via USB while providing a 3.5mm line out jack.
> Dale


 
  My Q701 is getting delivered, and i have the E17. Do you suggest me get the E09K as well?


----------



## Chris J

mani ath 87 said:


> What settings are people using on the Fiio E17, and with which headphones? (bass, treble, gain, vol, etc. - I'm assuming most people don't change the balance, lol)
> 
> 
> I can never decide on perfect settings myself.




I normally leave the gain at 0dB for anything and everything, and usually just adjust the volume as required.
I normally set bass and treble at 0, but occassionally set bass at +2 when using my Q701.
Always set to flat when using my DT880, but I need the E09K to drive the DT880.

Occassionally I use the iTunes variable EQ for some songs. iTunes EQ is not really the last word in EQs though! LOL!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> As mentioned by others, there's no such thing as 'the best settings'. It's entirely personal - some like EQ, some hate it. Some like the extra oomph of additional gain, others can't stand the extra distortion it might add to their setup. And let's not forget about our ears - pretty much a given that no two people will hear the exact same nuances from a given setup. That said, these are the settings I use:
> Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250 ohm - gain 6, bass +4, treble +2
> Sennheiser HD800 300 ohm - gain 12, bass +8, treble -2
> Shure SE530 IEMs - gain 0, bass +2, treble 0
> ...


 
   
  Hey Dale,
  Isn't this information highly classified?  LOL!
  Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> My Q701 is getting delivered, and i have the E17. Do you suggest me get the E09K as well?


 
   
  Try the E17 with the Q701 for a while.
  I think you will be pleased with it.
  I really got the E09K partly to drive my 600 Ohm DT880s and  partly for the convenience factor: it makes my desk a bit cleaner, easier to adjust the volume with the rotary volume control.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Try the E17 with the Q701 for a while.
> I think you will be pleased with it.
> I really got the E09K partly to drive my 600 Ohm DT880s and  partly for the convenience factor: it makes my desk a bit cleaner, easier to adjust the volume with the rotary volume control.


 
  Thanks, I just bought the E09k to go with my E17, how much will it really improve the Q701(or other headphones)?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Thanks, I just bought the E09k to go with my E17, how much will it really improve the Q701(or other headphones)?


 
   
  Just my opinion, but I'm not happy with the way the E17 drives my 600 Ohm DT880s. Too much clipping.......
  OTOH, the E09K has enough output voltage to drive my 600 Ohm DT880s.
   
  I haven't really performed any A/B testing between the E17 and the E09K with my Q701s, so I don't have an opinion.  My gut feel is that they sound the same.
  Someone more experienced out there?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Thanks, I just bought the E09k to go with my E17, how much will it really improve the Q701(or other headphones)?


 
   
  Oh you bugger!
   
  I've been doing some E09K and E17 A/B comparisons for the last 1/2 an hour, I'm starting to get a preference for the E09K with the Q701.
  To my ears, the E17 can tend to brittle and thin with some recordings.
   
  The E09K just sounds a bit warmer and fuller. Nice. I like it.


----------



## jasonb

Not always. If your getting great results with just the E17, then it is most likely not going to be a worthwhile difference. The E17 has lower output impedance than the E9 or E09k as well which means it will work better for low impedance headphones. Anything under 100ohms with a decent sensitivity should do just fine with the E17 alone.
  Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is E09K+E17 really better than E17 by itself?


----------



## jasonb

Depending on how loud you listen, you may be very surprised how well the E17 works with them.
  Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> My Q701 is getting delivered, and i have the E17. Do you suggest me get the E09K as well?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Depending on how loud you listen, you may be very surprised how well the E17 works with them.


 
   
  Much as I am starting to prefer the E09K over the E17 with the Q701, I was _quite_ pleased with the E17 + Q701 until I compared it to the E09K.
   
  OTOH, I've also started comparing the E17 with the E09K using the ATH-ESW10 Japan, my preference varies depending on what song I am listening to.....so far, no real consensus.


----------



## jasonb

I read that you say the sound is just a tad warmer with the E09k, you could accomplish pretty much the same thing by adding a +2 bass boost when using the E17 alone. Do that and try comparing.
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> Much as I am starting to prefer the E09K over the E17, I was _quite_ pleased with the E17 until I compared it to the E09K.


 
   
  I am also quite pleased with just the E17, I dont listen all that loudly though. I listen anywhere between 70-85db or so depending on my mood and the music I am listening to, but usually I listen at around 75-80db. At these levels the E17 is barely breaking a sweat and does very well.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I read that you say the sound is just a tad warmer with the E09k, you could accomplish pretty much the same thing by adding a +2 bass boost when using the E17 alone. Do that and try comparing.
> 
> I am also quite pleased with just the E17, I dont listen all that loudly though. I listen anywhere between 70-85db or so depending on my mood and the music I am listening to, but usually I listen at around 75-80db. At these levels the E17 is barely breaking a sweat and does very well.


 

 I agree, I'm also pleased with the E17 alone and my ath a900x headphones. I don't feel the need for anything extra with low impedance headphones, it feels like overkill to me, then again everyone has different tastes!


----------



## kalbee

I leave my EQ at 0 almost at all times, and gain at +0.
  Volume plays between ~10 and 37 depending on headphone and environment.
  I don't usually use EQ since I pick which headphone to wear based on the sound I'm looking for at the moment, but it's good to have sometimes as some tracks just sound better with a bit of boost here and there 
   
  Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is E09K+E17 really better than E17 by itself?


 
  It's like choosing coffee vs. hot chocolate if you ask me.
  They sound a bit different, but the E17 can certainly handle the Q701.
  Q701 with E17 goes at +0 gain 27~34 volume for me, though some others have reportedly needed gain boost and still higher volume. For those cases the E09K would help.
   
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> Oh you bugger!
> 
> I've been doing some E09K and E17 A/B comparisons for the last 1/2 an hour, I'm starting to get a preference for the E09K with the Q701.
> To my ears, the E17 can tend to brittle and thin with some recordings.
> ...


 
  I don't have a E09K but my brother has a E9 I can use, and have tested the difference between E17 only, E9 only, and the combo.
  Wait, seems I did not do the E9 only. In any case, E9 is probably sonically identical or very similar to the E09K.
  This is what I wrote at the time (quite a while ago):
   


Spoiler: my%20noob%20impressions



 
*Laptop --> Q701*
  Let's use this as benchmark. The volume can be driven to audible volume without any problem. The sound as-is, to say the least, is very boring and lifeless. While compared to cheap earphones these might still sound marginally good, you will wonder how these can cost over $200. Sound is boring and dry. Feels almost like a bass and treble roll-off.
   
*iPhone4S --> Q701*
  Similar case to the laptop, though not as bad. The sound has a bit more body and is a little warmer.
   
*Laptop --> E17 via USB (AMP+DAC) --> Q701*
  Quite the difference! The sound feels crisper and cleaner, and the sound as heard from the first setup is now changed to bass AND treble extension. The sound opens up, everything feels more dynamic and alive. Bass response is improved, yet still polite.
   
*Laptop --> E9 (AMP) w/ E17 docked on low-pass (DAC) --> Q701*
  It feels as if the soundstage was reduced a little, but the bass has more impact. Much more. Feels like it sounds a little warmer than E17 alone, with more body.
   
  Many reviews mention that the E17 sometimes sound better as-is, without docking to the E9. For the Q701, I find the docked setup to be more fitting my taste; reading around you might see that I'm not particularly a huge fan of the much-bigger-than-I-am-used-to soundstage of the AKGs. The bass increase is very VERY nice. The E9's knob was at about 1/4 of the max output, 0 gain. The E17 alone runs at the same audible volume with its setting at ~30 (out of 60), 0 gain. The E17 alone is quite the performer; I suspect the amp is better than the E9's just not as powerful. The decrease in pure quality when docked to the E9 brings a different flavor to the sound, and are well within bounds of being acceptable as 'good' sound. Yes, I was playing it pretty loud.


  Take that with a spoonful of salt.
  But basically the gist is that I also found the E9 to be warmer, and I like that a lot. Also prefer having a knob for volume control.
  And, mind you, while I did write "sound quality" I don't remember what I meant by it. Probably the amount of detail from the higher end of the spectrum.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Many reviews mention that the E17 sometimes sound better as-is, without docking to the E9. For the Q701


 
  Well crap, I just bought the E09k.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Well crap, I just bought the E09k.


 
  That was actually _very quick_ impressions for another member back in April haha, take it with a mound full of salt (or a spoonful like earlier stated).
  In the end it all trickles down to your personal preferences. I liked the E17+E9 combo best since warm sound + more controlled sound stage on a Q701 is really more to my liking. I'm not a fan of the Q701 mainly because of the soundstage.
   
  I'll verify my past claims tomorrow if you'd like.
   
  But yes, I recall reading a few people mention the E17 without the E9 (E09K did not exist then) sounded better. That said, that's their preference and YMMV.
  Funny because other sources will say that the E9 is a decent combo for the Q701 (hence the bundle of E9 + Q701 being sold in some stores).


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

So what sounds the best for Q701, E17 or E09K+E17?
  I doubt I will be able to tell the difference to be honest.


----------



## kalbee

Since you already ordered the E09K you might as well try it out haha. I find the difference more than subtle. As usual, the best combination will be what sounds best to you. We all look for slightly different sounds in our gear, after all.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> So what sounds the best for Q701, E17 or E09K+E17?
> I doubt I will be able to tell the difference to be honest.


 

 Why did you buy a E09K if you didn't think you would be able to tell the difference?


----------



## AgentXXL

kalbee said:


> Since you already ordered the E09K you might as well try it out haha. I find the difference more than subtle. As usual, the best combination will be what sounds best to you. We all look for slightly different sounds in our gear, after all.




I wholeheartedly agree with this. Until you've tried the E09K, don't discount the difference it can make. I can't wait to get home from vacation to see what my E9 does with my new HD800s. 

Dale


----------



## Zi00

So guys, is the E17 currently regarded as the "best" portable DAC/AMP for its price ($140sh), or there are some good similar alternatives?


----------



## jasonb

I haven't seen any other product in it's price range that really compares.
  Quote: 





zi00 said:


> So guys, is the E17 currently regarded as the *"best" portable DAC/AMP for its price ($140sh)*, or there are some good similar alternatives?


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with this. Until you've tried the E09K, don't discount the difference it can make. I can't wait to get home from vacation to see what my E9 does with my new HD800s.
> Dale


 
   
  If I could afford HD800's I'd probably go with something other then the E9, lol


----------



## AgentXXL

zi00 said:


> So guys, is the E17 currently regarded as *the "best" portable DAC/AMP for its price ($140sh)*, or there are some good similar alternatives?




Agreed, for the price the E17 is pretty impressive. There are other DAC/AMP combos out there that are under $200, but I have no experience with them. Doing a search in this forum for the terms 'under $200' should get you some threads with discussions about similarly priced products. That said, I'm extremely happy with my E17. It compares very closely with the much pricier Headamp Pico DAC/AMP that I also own ($499).

Dale


----------



## AgentXXL

mani ath 87 said:


> If I could afford HD800's I'd probably go with something other then the E9, lol




It's in the works - just need to save up the money! I'm currently looking at the Schiit Mjolnir solid state amp and possibly the companion Gungnir DAC for my desktop/home setup and something like the Ray Samuels Audio SR71B Blackbird or the Intruder for my portable AMP.

Dale


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> It's in the works - just need to save up the money! I'm currently looking at the Schiit Mjolnir solid state amp and possibly the companion Gungnir DAC for my desktop/home setup and something like the Ray Samuels Audio SR71B Blackbird or the Intruder for my portable AMP.
> Dale


 

 Sounds like it's going to be an awesome set up once everything is together! I got to listen to the HD800's with the Mjolnir recently at a local shop and they sound amazing together.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Well crap, I just bought the E09k.


 
   
  Listen to the E09K and the E17 combo with an open mind.
   
  Listen to it and make up your own mind.   You may find that you prefer the E17 alone for some recorddings and the E09K + E17 for other recordings.
   
  I have an E09K which I use with my Q701, it makes me happy, and that's what really matters!
   
  cheers, C J


----------



## AgentXXL

chris j said:


> Listen to the E09K and the E17 combo with an open mind.
> 
> Listen to it and make up your own mind.   You may find that you prefer the E17 alone for some recorddings and the E09K + E17 for other recordings.




Couldn't agree more Chris! The E9 opens up my old DT770 Pro 250 ohm Beyers, so it'll be interesting to hear what it does with my HD800s.

McNuggetsPie - don't fret yet! If the E09K doesn't work out for you, you should be able to resell it at a minimal loss, if any.

Dale


----------



## m8o

Re: E17 vs. E09K+E17
   
  It may come as a surprise to a few of the readers -- it was to me when FiiO launched their new website and I saw the full E17 specs for the 1st time -- but the E17 output impedance load is rated only at 16 - 100 ohms ; not the 32 - 600 that is usually typical.  From their site:  "*Drive ability* 16-100 Ω".  Even the webpage of the E07K, which is a largely very similar amp section, states "Headphone Impedance (Recommended): 16-150ohm".
   
  In the past I was a bit critical in this thread of the E17 amp being insufficient to drive my DT880 to levels I was happy with from a 1V source.  It's not however like I was expecting a miracle as the amp is rated only at about 35mW @ 300ohm load . But after seeing the recommended output drive ability I then understood, the amp was never intended to be a driver for high impedance cans.
   
  The matching E09K dock has a much higher output power and most importantly for high impedance cans, a much higher voltage swing of 15.5V peak to peak vs. 7.3V peak to peak for the E17 (tho also has kinda high output impedance) and is the FiiO's intended solution for driving higher impedance cans.  If however you don't want to be tethered and sitting down but want to walk around in the streets with your 250ohm to 600ohm cans playing music loud with authority, the E17 is simply not the right portable solution for that.


----------



## AgentXXL

m8o said:


> If however you don't want to be tethered and sitting down but want to walk around in the streets with your 250ohm to 600ohm cans playing music loud with authority, the E17 is simply not the right portable solution for that.




I couldn't disagree more! While the E17 may not be rated to drive 250 - 600 ohm cans, it certainly surprised me when I tried it with my new HD800s. I don't really have a choice right now as I'm on vacation and only brought the E17 with me. It was that or use my iPhone or MacBook Pro outputs on their own. Each persons ears play a big part in what we hear so what's acceptable to me may not be to you.

Dale


----------



## jasonb

Exactly. Many also think the E17 is not worthy of being paired with the Q701 either, but I think it does an excellent job, especially if you aren't a loud listener. 
  Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I couldn't disagree more! While the E17 may not be rated to drive 250 - 600 ohm cans, it certainly surprised me when I tried it with my new HD800s. I don't really have a choice right now as I'm on vacation and only brought the E17 with me. It was that or use my iPhone or MacBook Pro outputs on their own. Each persons ears play a big part in what we hear so *what's acceptable to me may not be to you*.
> Dale


----------



## kalbee

By the way, if you want a portable high-impedance-headphone amp, FiiO's E12 seems to pack quite the punch...
   
   
   
  Quote: feiao 





> The input impedance should higher than 10K, and the output impedance is less than 0.5 ohms. the final output power is >850mW at 32ohms.


 
   
E17: > 220 mW@32Ω​ E09K: ​> 900 mW@32Ω​


----------



## m8o

Well, I did clearly say "*playing music loud with authority*".   I either have a dramatically different threshold for 'loud' than either of you, or that part was skipped before responding.  (p.s. I should have probably said something like "loud, as in irresponsible levels of clear and loud" to make my semantics clear.)
   
  Yes, I think the E17 sounds quite nice w/my DT880 even using a 1V source (iPod or Cable-box output) but only to [ahem] 'responsible' output levels.  When on 12db gain and output turned up to say 55 - 60, the distortion is very prevalent but output is nowhere near what I can get with either of my desktop amps; and I'd imagine the E09K dock would however be able to match my two Little Dots.  ...that's all I'm saying.


----------



## kalbee

I was only adding the information that the E12 is coming out soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Sorry if it seemed like I was saying anything against you. Let me edit it to make it sound more like a random statement about higher output power choices.


----------



## m8o

Hahaha... no no, I meant "the two of you" in response to the two prior post to you. ... I knew I should have used Multi-Quote.  
   
  I appreciate the FYI/reminder you gave me/us.


----------



## AgentXXL

m8o said:


> Well, I did clearly say "*playing music loud with authority*".   I either have a dramatically different threshold for 'loud' than either of you, or that part was skipped before responding.  (p.s. I should have probably said something like "loud, as in irresponsible levels of clear and loud" to make my semantics clear.)




I'm sure we do have different definitions of "loud with authority'. I never expected the E17 to drive the HD800 to anywhere near what I consider a reasonable level, but for me they do.



> Yes, I think the E17 sounds quite nice w/my DT880 even using a 1V source (iPod or Cable-box output) but only to [ahem] 'responsible' output levels.  When on 12db gain and output turned up to say 55 - 60, the distortion is very prevalent but output is nowhere near what I can get with either of my desktop amps; and I'd imagine the E09K dock would however be able to match my two Little Dots.  ...that's all I'm saying.




I'm using the E17 with the HD800s with settings of gain 12, bass +8, treble -2 and listen at volumes between 25 and 35. I'll agree that distortion sets in at volumes above 45 but thankfully I haven't had need to go higher.

I wasn't trying to entirely dismiss your comments, especially since we all have different ears. I just disagreed with the thought that the E17 shouldn't be used with 250 - 600 ohm cans.

Dale


----------



## jasonb

Wow, bass +8 and treble -2? To me, it sounds like the HD800 may not be the best option for you anyway. I don't have a problem with a small amount of EQ, but I don't consider an 8db boost to me a small amount. With my Q701 I usually use +2 bass, but sometimes +4 bass with electronic music.
   
  On the other hand, if it sounds good *TO YOU,* then keep on rockin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
    
  Quote:


agentxxl said:


> I'm sure we do have different definitions of "loud with authority'. I never expected the E17 to drive the HD800 to anywhere near what I consider a reasonable level, but for me they do.
> I'm using the E17 with the HD800s with settings of gain 12, bass +8, treble -2 and listen at volumes between 25 and 35. I'll agree that distortion sets in at volumes above 45 but thankfully I haven't had need to go higher.
> I wasn't trying to entirely dismiss your comments, especially since we all have different ears. I just disagreed with the thought that the E17 shouldn't be used with 250 - 600 ohm cans.
> Dale


----------



## josh7777777

+4 BASS YEWW! I LOVE BASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BASS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!


----------



## Chris J

agentxxl said:


> Couldn't agree more Chris! The E9 opens up my old DT770 Pro 250 ohm Beyers, so it'll be interesting to hear what it does with my HD800s.
> McNuggetsPie - don't fret yet! If the E09K doesn't work out for you, you should be able to resell it at a minimal loss, if any.
> Dale




If you don't like the E09K with Q701, keep it.
It may work with headphones you get in the future.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





chris j said:


> If you don't like the E09K with Q701, keep it.
> It may work with headphones you get in the future.


 
  Is E17 better for low impedance headphones? Is it more suited to those?


----------



## Chris J

​


asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Is E17 better for low impedance headphones? Is it more suited to those?




Short answer:

The E09K outputs more power into low impedance loads than the E17.

The E17 works best with mid to high efficiency low impedance 'phones.

OTOH, the E17 has a lower output impedance.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Short answer:
> The E09K outputs more power into low impedance loads than the E17.
> The E17 works best with mid to high efficiency low impedance 'phones.
> OTOH, the E17 has a lower output impedance.


 
  So for low impedance E17 is better by itself?
  And how do i find out the efficiency of headphones? It doesn't seem to be mentioned in specs.


----------



## GSARider

Tell us which headphones you're using.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> So for low impedance E17 is better by itself?
> And how do i find out the efficiency of headphones? It doesn't seem to be mentioned in specs.


 
  If I am correct, Chris is saying that since the E17 doesn't sport as much power as E09K (designed to work for 600ohms impedance headphones), the E17 is meant for headphones with low to medium amount of impedance (let's say "medium" is around 300 ohms) with mid to high sensitivity. Sensitivity & impedance = rough idea of efficiency.
  And by efficiency it's sound level per unit of power.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> So for low impedance E17 is better by itself?
> And how do i find out the efficiency of headphones? It doesn't seem to be mentioned in specs.


 

 You determine the efficiency of headphones by listening to them and coming to your own conclusions, or reading trusted reviews and making informed decisions. Your asking a lot of questions that really don't have definitive answers.Everyone hears things a little differently then someone else, you can't just ask if they E17 is going to sound better in general, because different people have different preferences. You simply need to listen for yourself and make your own choice.


----------



## kuko61

Is E17 compatible with USB audio output on Synology NAS? Anyone tried it?
  Thanks


----------



## gohanssjn

Yay, the E17 never played nice with my Dell latitude XT, but it works great with my new Lenovo X230.
   
  So glad to have good sound with my portable writing station now


----------



## jasonb

What was the problem with it and the Dell?
  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> Yay, the E17 never played nice with my Dell latitude XT, but it works great with my new Lenovo X230.
> 
> So glad to have good sound with my portable writing station now


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> What was the problem with it and the Dell?


 
   
  That model always had grounding issues, so who knows what the root problem was, but any attempt to play music over USB was met with a layer of static over the intended sound.  Tested it in Windows 7, 8, and Ubuntu, no change.


----------



## jasonb

Gotcha. Glad the new laptop works better.
  Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> That model always had grounding issues, so who knows what the root problem was, but any attempt to play music over USB was met with a layer of static over the intended sound.  Tested it in Windows 7, 8, and Ubuntu, no change.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> If I am correct, Chris is saying that since the E17 doesn't sport as much power as E09K (designed to work for 600ohms impedance headphones), the E17 is meant for headphones with low to medium amount of impedance (let's say "medium" is around 300 ohms) with mid to high sensitivity. Sensitivity & impedance = rough idea of efficiency.
> And by efficiency it's sound level per unit of power.


 
   
  You got all that basically correct.      Someone should buy you a drink!
  I'll try to expand.............with a short, oversimplified answer:
   
  The E17 outputs less voltage so is less suitable for high impedance headphones
  and outputs less current and less power so would be more suitable for high efficiency 'phones.
  E17 should be able to drive any Grado, for example.
   
  Obviously the E09K outputs more voltage so better for high impedance 'phones
  and outputs more current and power so would be more suitable for lower efficiency 'phones.
  So if you had a low impedance, low efficiency 'phone, you may need the E09K.
  The Audeze LCD-2 guys would want the E09K.          In actual practice, anyone with enough $$$ for the LCD-2 would buy a much more $$$ headphone amp anyway.
   
  Yes, efficiency is the sound level per unit of power:  for example: 96 dB SPL @ 1 milliWatt
   
  Sensitivity is sound output per unit of Voltage,   for example:      105 dB SPL @ 1 Volt
   
  Having said all that, I use the E09K + E17 for my Q701s because _I like the sound of that system_ even though the E17 + Q701 alone is loud enough for me.
   
  Here's your drink by the way:


----------



## Zen21

has anyone had a problem with their fiio e17 only playing music out of one side of their earphone/headphone? I have to manually adjust it for a few mins to be able to hear both channels

 tried my headphones in other things such as my phone and pc and it works fine.


----------



## GSARider

Only if the 3.5mm jack isn't inserted fully - it needs to click into place.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Only if the 3.5mm jack isn't inserted fully - it needs to click into place.


 
  ^ Seems like the problem.


----------



## KBerube80

So, what headphones _won't_ the E17 drive to a satisfying degree?  I'm guessing Orthos but any others?
   
  edit:  just saw above, high impedance phones.


----------



## GSARider

Not necessarily, one chap has been driving a set of HD800's (300 ohms) with great results apparently. I hope to test mine out in a week or so's time...


----------



## kalbee

zen21 said:


> has anyone had a problem with their fiio e17 only playing music out of one side of their earphone/headphone? I have to manually adjust it for a few mins to be able to hear both channels
> 
> 
> tried my headphones in other things such as my phone and pc and it works fine.



Does your E17 say "E17" on its back or "Alpen"?


----------



## AgentXXL

gsarider said:


> Not necessarily, one chap has been driving a set of HD800's (300 ohms) with great results apparently. I hope to test mine out in a week or so's time...




That chap would be me, although now that I'm home from vacation, the E9 is being used pretty much exclusively. The E17 does a fair job with my new HD800s but the E9 and numerous other even better amps are the prefered solution. I'm amazed that the E17 did an admirable job, albeit using some equalization to suit my tastes. Now with the E17 docked to my E9 and using the USB input with no equalization, the HD800s have opened up even more.

I'm looking forward to the day I have enough money to get a decent balanced cable and likely a Schiit Mjolnir/Gungnir amp/dac combo! BTW - here's a pic of my temporary setup in the living room - too much craps on my desk for my E9/E17 and my cheap-***** headphone stand. 



Dale


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> That chap would be me, although now that I'm home from vacation, the E9 is being used pretty much exclusively. The E17 does a fair job with my new HD800s but the E9 and numerous other even better amps are the prefered solution. I'm amazed that the E17 did an admirable job, albeit using some equalization to suit my tastes. Now with the E17 docked to my E9 and using the USB input with no equalization, the HD800s have opened up even more.
> I'm looking forward to the day I have enough money to get a decent balanced cable and likely a Schiit Mjolnir/Gungnir amp/dac combo! BTW - here's a pic of my temporary setup in the living room - too much craps on my desk for my E9/E17 and my cheap-***** headphone stand.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just makes me lust for HD800s even more!


----------



## davidcotton

So would a e17 (or e7 for that matter) help if I have a dodgy headphone jack on the ipod itself?  I assume the setup would be Ipod>amp>headphones?
   
  Cheers


----------



## AgentXXL

davidcotton said:


> So would a e17 (or e7 for that matter) help if I have a dodgy headphone jack on the ipod itself?  I assume the setup would be Ipod>amp>headphones?




Short answer is yes. If you were to purchase a L9 line out dongle (LOD) with your E17, you can plug it into the 30 pin connector on the bottom of the iPod and the other end to AUX in on the E17. Your headphones would plug into the headphone jack on the E17 - the iPod headphone jack isn't even used. This setup is the most common way E17 users attach to iPods/iPhones. A very small percentage will use the included L8 dongle to connect the headphone jack from the iPod to the AUX in on the E17, but this results in double-amping. and poorer sound quality. A really small number of users will spend big money to buy something like the Fostex HP-P1 so they can use the iPod/iPhone digital output and bypass both the internal amp and DAC.

L8 dongle: 

L9 LOD: 

Dale


----------



## KBerube80

Quote: 





davidcotton said:


> So would a e17 (or e7 for that matter) help if I have a dodgy headphone jack on the ipod itself?  I assume the setup would be Ipod>amp>headphones?
> 
> Cheers


 

 yep.  get an LOD wire.


----------



## SnufsHeadphone

I currently solely use an iPod nano 3g as source / dac / amp.


  
 But seeing as I recently bought a Denon D5000,
 I think I've got 2 options:
  
 to only take the amping part away from the iPod (If so, I like the looks of the FiiO E12)
 or to lift both the task of DAC & amp to another portable device (for example fiio e17)
  
  haven't really looked further & thought I might make some use of the expertise of you guys 
  Budget would be about 150 - 200$

 Any suggestions guys, thanks in advance D


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





snufsheadphone said:


> But seeing as I recently bought a Denon D5000,
> I think I've got 2 options:
> 
> to only take the amping part away from the iPod (If so, I like the looks of the FiiO E12)
> ...


 
  No. FiiOs do not bypass DAC of iPod and E17 is not an example. HP P1 and CLAS and that new sony and the VAMP is.
   
  I'm guessing you want these for portable purposes right? Some take their Denon's D series out but they do look big.
   
  I believe Denon's aren't hard to drive but hey, who knows. Everyone is different. If you want a portable amp for those. There are Headroom's, iBasso's, the E17/E07K/and soon to be E12 and a few others.


----------



## Thommohawk

Might create my own thread for this but I figured I'd post here first. Which would you say is better DAC for DAC the Fiio E17 vs ASUS Xonar Essence? 
   
  I can't decide which to go for I used to have the Essence a long time ago so that's at least familiar, however I really like the Fiio E7/E9 combination.


----------



## SnufsHeadphone

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> No. FiiOs do not bypass DAC of iPod and E17 is not an example. HP P1 and CLAS and that new sony and the VAMP is.
> 
> I'm guessing you want these for portable purposes right? Some take their Denon's D series out but they do look big.
> 
> I believe Denon's aren't hard to drive but hey, who knows. Everyone is different. If you want a portable amp for those. There are Headroom's, iBasso's, the E17/E07K/and soon to be E12 and a few others.


 
  Ah sorry for not stating clearly that I do use my D5000's both at school and at home, so I need a device to complete my portable rig

 I'm going to trade my beats studio for an iPod Touch 4G 32GB,

 and I think / assume an iPod Touch 4G has got a better dac compared to iPod Nano 3G.

 So FiiO devices don't bypass internal iPod dac when u use an LOD-cable? I misunderstood then, and then I'd be looking for a portable amp to power the D5000 when combined with the iPod Touch I'm soon getting.

 I really like the look of the FiiO E12, any thoughts?

 Much obliged & appreciated bro D


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





snufsheadphone said:


> So FiiO devices don't bypass internal iPod dac when u use an LOD-cable? I misunderstood then, and then I'd be looking for a portable amp to power the D5000 when combined with the iPod Touch I'm soon getting.
> 
> I really like the look of the FiiO E12, any thoughts?


 
   
  Correct, a LOD is a line out dongle, i.e. it provides an analog line out from the iPod/iPhone 30 pin connector (or from the Lightning connector with a 30 pin adapter). The DAC in the iPod/iPhone is still used. You could use the E17 as just an amplifier by using the AUX input, but I suspect the E12 is going to become the preference for iPod/iPhone users that just want better, cleaner amplification than the amp built in to the iPod/iPhone.
   
  The alternative of buying a HP-P1, CLAS, or any of the others that bypass the iPod/iPhone DAC is just too cost prohibitive for most folks, me included. 
   
  Dale


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





snufsheadphone said:


> Ah sorry for not stating clearly that I do use my D5000's both at school and at home, so I need a device to complete my portable rig
> 
> I'm going to trade my beats studio for an iPod Touch 4G 32GB,
> 
> ...


 
  No idea. It is kinda hard to get accurate chip models off Apple devices. Org/Companies like Chipworks do it sometimes but mainly for the phones. It wouldn't help anyway. The models that are on the chips are special and don't relate to any product Cirrus Logic or Wolfson had. Post 2008, most DAC's they use on their portable products use custom models and are custom designed.
   
  No, they do no. They are only able to bypass iPod amp and headphone jack.
   
  There are devices that can do what you want. But they are very expensive. The licensing  from Apple is a huge cost addition.
   
  Thoughts are all on the page for it. It is not available yet. Only specs are out. It is quite powerful for the price and portability thoughl
   
  Keep in mind that Lightning based iPod/iPhone devices can not directly use LOD's. The work arounds and what not are still a little problematic. It seems you can use an LOD if you use the Apple lightning to 30 pin adapter but from the looks of it, you will be using the cheap low class wolfson inside of it instead of the proper good DAC.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





snufsheadphone said:


> Ah sorry for not stating clearly that I do use my D5000's both at school and at home, so I need a device to complete my portable rig
> 
> I'm going to trade my beats studio for an iPod Touch 4G 32GB,
> 
> ...


 
   
  No more Beats?
   
  Very nice. Congrats.


----------



## Achmedisdead

Quote: 





snufsheadphone said:


> I'm going to trade my beats studio for an iPod Touch 4G 32GB,


 
  That's a killer deal, congrats!


----------



## marko93101

I listen to majority of my music on my iPod, with college and all, I'm just not at the laptop that much. Would I be better off with this E17 or the E11?
At the moment I've nothing hectic that needs incredible power, Suoerlux HD668B,Denon AH-D1100 and some Alessandros. I do plan to upgrade when finances allow. 
So guys, what yous think?


----------



## jasonb

I would still go with the E17, it's just as good as the E11 as a portable amp, but has the option to be an amp AND a DAC when you are near your laptop. The EQ in the E17 is also fantastic, and is nice to have. 
  Quote: 





marko93101 said:


> I listen to majority of my music on my iPod, with college and all, I'm just not at the laptop that much. Would I be better off with this E17 or the E11?
> At the moment I've nothing hectic that needs incredible power, Suoerlux HD668B,Denon AH-D1100 and some Alessandros. I do plan to upgrade when finances allow.
> So guys, what yous think?


----------



## marko93101

Thanks! I'll look into the best price in Europe!


----------



## bowei006

The E17 however is generally 2-3X the price of a E11. 55 Euro compared to 130 Euro. If there is no need for a DAC. The money can be better spent into a dedicated portable amp.
   
  Having a DAC is very nice though for when one wants to use laptop later on. Really up to usage of user.


----------



## kalbee

Yep. While I do value functionality and versatility very much, at the current price difference it may be hard to recommend the E17 over the E11. But consider these 4 points:
  1) Extra battery life on the amp
  2) More flexibility and control on EQ
  3) Cost constraints (regardless of "value", simply and purely total cost)
  4) Occasional DAC use or probably purely amp
   
  Assuming you've answered NO for the points not mentioned below, and you are looking purely at FiiO products (which are great at value IMO):
  If you answered YES for 1 & 3, then E11 might be better.
  If you answered YES for 2 & 4, then E17 might be better.
  If you answered YES for 1 and/or 3 in addition to 2 & 4, then maybe you can consider the E07K also.


----------



## mechchimp

Quick quetion:

 I've just received my new E17, I plugged the USB cable in the device and then on my PC. The Power Led tuned Red.
 I removed the hold switch and tried to switch on the device... Nothing happened.
 I tried again in a minute and the Led turned sort of pinkish (blu+red). The displayed showed the Fiio logo and then low-battery and bye bye and off it went again.

 Is my E17 faulty?
 I can't find any info on "letting it charge before the first use" on the "user manual"
   
  On a side note: I am also missing the rubber feet. Did Fiio add them in the package after a while? They surely are mentioned in the leaflet.
 And no authenticity sticker of sort...


----------



## Necrontyr

The Good-bye after turning on happens when the battery is practically dead , give your fiio 10 mins of good charging then turn it on , it will stay that purplish color when on / charging at the same time. 
   
  As to the feet, they are on a strip of rubber with like 6 bumps sticking off of it, and they peel off, if you didnt get any i wouldn't worry , they dont stick amazingly well, ( at least mine didnt ) and after 2-3 months of heavy use they started falling off, and even super-glue was no match for the rough and tumble interior of my bag. 
   
  Mine is about a year and a half old now, and it has no auth sticker, so if yours is old stock then it could be the same as mine.


----------



## mechchimp

Many thanks for the prompt reply: I panicked a little...

 I couldn't find any mention of the pink led on the manual. And all the pictures I saw posted online show the led bright blue.
 I'll let the device charge and I'll report back.

 On the authenticity side of the things. I checked with Amazon.it (where I bought the E17 from) and I found out that they are actually resellers for the Fiio Italian authorized importer. So far so good then.
  
   
  UPDATE:
 2/3 hours later and the device is functioning, I assume, correctly.
 The led is still pinkish, but at least I can use it now.

 Being this the first device of its kind I own I can positively say that the difference I'm hearing (vs my onboard chip) is remarkable!


----------



## kalbee

mechchimp said:


> Many thanks for the prompt reply: I panicked a little...
> 
> 
> I couldn't find any mention of the pink led on the manual. And all the pictures I saw posted online show the led bright blue.
> ...



I assume by pink you mean purple-ish?
Blue light is ON
Red light is CHARGE
So when it is on AND charging it is blue + red making purple-ish.
If you turn off the USB charging it will go to just blue while on.


----------



## Necrontyr

Just a note on using the fiio for our new brother ;P 
   
  I often have it in my man-bag as i bring it to an from work a lot, if you do this be sure to put the device powered off and on hold into your bag.
   
  More often than i'd like i'll be out on the road, either shopping in town or on a trip and my trusty fiio , still in my bag from my work week will be dead as a dodo because i didn't put it on hold , it turns itself on very easily when just chucked in a bag. 
   
  Just something to make a mental note of


----------



## mechchimp

Hmm... More problems I'm afraid.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I used the E17 most of the afternoon, the led was still purple and everything was fine.
 Then I switched it off... And now I can't turn it back on, no matter what.
   
  How long does it usually take, while using it, to charge the device?


----------



## rockposer

Well got my new E17 today and I too was initially stumped by the fact it wouldn't switch on even thought it had the usb cable plugged in. Once I'd figured out how to change all the output settings on my laptop, now got it at 24bit 96k WASAPI plugin via Winamp, I'm really impressed. I gather that it'll 'loosen' up after a while, so here's to the future.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





mechchimp said:


> Hmm... More problems I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I give it a good 5 mins charging before turning it on (when the batteries are drained).
  And that usually works, operating on USB Charging ON.
   
  I guess it probably isn't worth asking since you did say "no matter what" but the HOLD button was off, right?
  Either way, whether the HOLD button is on or off, does the power button even light up red with it's plugged in?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mechchimp said:


> Hmm... More problems I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/638910/fiio-e07k-andes-review-and-help-thread#post_8914241
   
  It's basically the same for the E17.
   
   


> Press and hold the rest button at top with a pen tip. The E17 and E07K units are complicated firmware devices. Whilst other audio devices use physical knobs and switches or a simple screen, these units need to pull more wait. Glitches and freezing or not turning on has and does happen every now and then or not at all. The usual solutions are plugging them into a computer with USB and then trying the power button. Or waiting a bit and then pressing and holding the power button for a bit. Combinations of these are recommended. The biggest culprit of this problem is that the HOLD switch is engaged. Check that no orange is showing as that means that HOLD is on.


----------



## mechchimp

The HOLD switch is off (top position, not showing any red).

 While connected to an USB port I can see a slight faint red light on the Power button. Not the proper bright led I saw the first time I plugged the E17 in.
  
   
  UPDATE:
 I did try some different USB ports on my main PC and nothing worked.
 Just to be sure I connected it to my Macbook Air and... _et __voilat_: red led back again!

 Off to scratching my head...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mechchimp said:


> The HOLD switch is off (top position, not showing any red).
> 
> While connected to an USB port I can see a slight faint red light on the Power button. Not the proper bright led I saw the first time I plugged the E17 in.


 
  Try these, each number is a seperate test

 With USB plugged in, flip hold switch up and down until hold is disabled. Then press and hold power button.
 Unplug USB and flip hold up and down and then try for power switch
 Press and hold reset button and then try a combo of the previous steps.


----------



## mechchimp

Quick recap:
  I connected the E17 to my PC. I let it charge for 2 hours and then I used it for 3 more hours, while keeping it connected. Everything looked (and sounded) fine, the led was still purple. I then decided to switch the device off (thinking it would speed up the remaining charging process). No red led.
 At this point I couldn't turn the thing on, no matter what (plugged, unplugged, different USB ports).
 Then I tried and connect it to a Macbook Air. Red light back. So I tried to switch it on and everything seems fine.
 Back to my main PC. The red led is not showing (not charging), but I can, luckily, still turn it on and off.

 So, to those tests.
 At this moment I can perform the 3 of them without reporting any strange malfunction.

 What else can I say? Finger crossed.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mechchimp said:


> Quick recap:
> I connected the E17 to my PC. I let it charge for 2 hours and then I used it for 3 more hours, while keeping it connected. Everything looked (and sounded) fine, the led was still purple. I then decided to switch the device off (thinking it would speed up the remaining charging process). No red led.
> At this point I couldn't turn the thing on, no matter what (plugged, unplugged, different USB ports).
> Then I tried and connect it to a Macbook Air. Red light back. So I tried to switch it on and everything seems fine.
> ...


 
  Due to a higher complexity of the FiiO's UI from others, I have also had those issues where the GUI/OS had some computational farts as well. It isn't generally of much concern unless it happens a lot or happened right out on the onset with no solution.
   
  Perhaps your PC doesn't have the juice? Rarely now a days but some PC's don't output too much juice. Don't think this is the problem though.
   
  Keep watch over it. Hiccups do happen, every now and then isn't a problem. But if it keeps happening, it is.


----------



## jasonb

Press the reset button. Mine locked up once when i first got it, and then it has never happened since. 
  Quote: 





mechchimp said:


> Hmm... More problems I'm afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## UnityIsPower

bowei006 said:


> They do offer one. Heck it comes for free!




LOL



hyogen said:


> i use dual lock on E17 and a lot of other stuff.  both normal and low profile dual lock...  it comes off easily enough and doesn't; take off the paint or anything with it.







bleether said:


> I had the same reservations before putting the velcro on my E17, but the adhesive does come off easily with out hurting the E17 if you choose to do so. IDK if u seen the mod i did, but there are photos in my profile if u want to check it out.
> 
> In the end, having the velcro on the E17, for me, is not a big deal at all. Its either in its case, sitting on its butt, or attached to my iphone. I never realized how important the fuggin E17 was going to be. I use it every single day. I take it everywhere i go!




Thanks guys.. I ended up just using dual lock directly on the E 17.


----------



## maxkolonko123

Is it safe to charge e17 from wall socket? to speed up charging time or its better to charge from pc usb ?? cheers


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> LOL
> 
> Thanks guys.. I ended up just using dual lock directly on the E 17.


 
  That is an old post of mine
  Quote: 





maxkolonko123 said:


> Is it safe to charge e17 from wall socket? to speed up charging time or its better to charge from pc usb ?? cheers


 
   
   
   


> *Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
> When the device is in use, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17/E07K is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually *bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries. *HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE* every month or two as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally as the E17/E07K's firmware will reset!
> 
> Li-ION batteris on general will last effectively 1000 complete charges before battery drops below about ~70% of the original storage. This is still acceptable by most consumers standards.
> ...


----------



## jasonb

Where do you get this "low Profile" dual lock? I would possibly like to use some between my iPhone and E17. 
  Quote: 





unityispower said:


> LOL
> 
> Thanks guys.. I ended up just using dual lock directly on the E 17.


----------



## jelloj

Is it normal for the 3.5mm output jack on these to be less tight and clicky than the AUX input? I got mine from Pavillion Electronics, an Amazon.com seller (fulfilled by Amazon), on Monday and it works perfectly but the output jack feels a lot different than any 3.5mm jack I've ever encountered. It's the exact width that my headphones' plug is and the plug will slide in but there's very little resistance and I don't get that familiar "click" at the end that keeps the plug from coming out without a small tug. It's really not a huge deal because the plug won't come out _too _easily but it's just different than anything I've ever encountered (I've never used an amp before) so I was wondering if it was normal on this unit or if I have a faulty plug, especially since the AUX input on the other side has more of the feel that I'm used to.


----------



## jasonb

I am willing to bet you actually dont have the headphones plugged in all the way. There should be a very tight click when fully inserted.


----------



## Stoney

Some very good advice in the last few pages I just read.  
   
  To add my experience, some confirming, some perhaps new: 
   
  - Mine did not function until I let it charge.  It would turn off if I turned it on.  
   
  - I have to make sure to re-set the output device on my Mac should I have turned the amp off for example. That is my most common reason for no sound. 
   
  - I am now using an inexpensive (under $10) optical cable.  When I turn on the E17, it doesn't recognize the OPT input.  What I do is to cycle through the inputs until I come back to OPT - if I have any sound playing into it, then it briefly says "LOCK".  This is often needed and, of course, the Mac must be set to the correct output. 
   
  - The correct output is "Built-in Output" because, when the optical cable is inserted, it disables and replaces the 3.5mm output.  
   
  - The OPT input sound slightly better (esp. cleaner treble) than when using USB input, at least if I remove the USB input (serving purely as charger at that point).  I assume this is related to 2 factors. The jitter would be different between the two inputs.  Also, I expect lots of RFI from the PC being piped in, including the charging circuit itself.  So I charge between uses.  (This is all independent of the battery care tips last page). 
   
  - I find the E17 much better and less bright than the E7, but I still need to turn down treble by one tick to make it match my Arrow amp and my sense of accuracy (with iPad 3 and HD650 with mods that make it much clearer). I sure wish the first couple of ticks were 1dB in size -- when applied over a broad frequency range, 1dB is quite audible. I also find it to damage some audiophile-type sense of reality, that 3D "in perspective" that makes instruments eerily realistic rather than merely well-defined. This is in comparison to the Arrow.  I will order the L7 line out dock and try the Arrow with only the E17 DAC to isolate where the problem is... I bet it is the amp stage.  PS: the FiiO "marketing team" (no name given) answered that, yes, the L7 is fine with the E17 (website not updated to indicate this yet).  
   
  - PS: replacing my HD650 cable with Cardas Clear Light was a huge improvement.  Break-in was quite obvious and made the difference between unacceptly bright and hard, without "flesh," to virtually ideal.  I previously had a longer and older Cardas cable, which seemed to disperse the treble and remove definition and accuracy.  
   
  Anyone else have experiences as above with optical input?


----------



## Stoney

Highly recommended (instead of an L7, for example) is this L11 adapter.  
  I combine it with the cable that arrived with the amp (one straight, one right angle).
  It allows one to continue listening or at least not to remove the dock cable when
  syncing or charging the iDevice.  Fewer make/break cycles is better.
  Also the fac that the cable can rotate is useful to avoid strain.  
  OTOH, it adds one connector to the signal path: 
   

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L11-Connector-Charge-iPhone/dp/B008EKON56
   
  I use an iPad, and what I consider to be a big improvement over most cases: 
  A strap that makes holding the iPad comfortable at all angles of rotation and of gravity. 
   

   
   
http://www.amazon.com/The-Pad-Strap-iPad-Classic/dp/B004TVGTLK
   
  I strap my amp to the strap using an elastic band, slide it to the dock connector, 
  then use the FiiO adapter and cable to connect it.  Extremely convenient. 
   
  PS: the black bands below on the amp are for use when combined with the iPhone.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> Highly recommended (instead of an L7, for example) is this L11 adapter.
> I combine it with the cable that arrived with the amp (one straight, one right angle).
> It allows one to continue listening or at least not to remove the dock cable when
> syncing or charging the iDevice.  Fewer make/break cycles is better.
> ...


 
  That little thing isn't for everyone.
   
  For iPhone/iPod users with FiiO units, the L9 is still recommended in my opinion. It features an easy L shaped jack using HPC-22W wire from Oyaide Japan. Very minimal and what not. The L11 allows you to use whatever interconnect cable you want and charge it which is nice but it may not have as much minimal low key design as the more specialized ones.


----------



## Stoney

Each setup is different.  Just putting it out there. 
   
  But I have not heard any degradation by using the L11 30-pin iDevice with 2 connections compared with the L7 adapter.  If anything, it seemed a bit better.  
   
  Both are from FiiO and both are good value.  I've seen an item like the L11 that was about $25 instead of $10 from FiiO (Amazon prices).  
   
  Of course, the L7 gives you _both_ the 30-pin and the 3.5mm cable for $10.  The L11 + a cable is nearly twice.


----------



## jelloj

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I am willing to bet you actually dont have the headphones plugged in all the way. There should be a very tight click when fully inserted.


 
  That was it, thanks. It still has a different feel but at least it clicks in place.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





stoney said:


> Each setup is different.  Just putting it out there.
> 
> But I have not heard any degradation by using the L11 30-pin iDevice with 2 connections compared with the L7 adapter.  If anything, it seemed a bit better.
> 
> ...


 
  I personally use the L11 since my L9 died on me within a week or two.
  While a great little accessory, one must know that it
  1) takes more space (sticks out more) than cabled LODs
  2) has a larger cross-section area than cabled LODs so those using cases need even larger openings to fit the L11.
   
  I just enlarge my case's 30-pin port by drilling it.
  The USB-mini port on the L11 on the other hand is a bit on the looser side, so syncing with computer might not be as successful for long transfers and such.
   
  Also, L11 + the patch cable included with the E17 means you don't need to spend extra on cable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Also, L11 + the patch cable included with the E17 means you don't need to spend extra on cable.


 
  But then how ever was I supposed to convince myself to buy the $300 Monster cable. It's their new Awesome-o series claiming 100Gb/s up and down stream with 300 Audifo fibers per square milimeter in it. It sounds great.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> But then how ever was I supposed to convince myself to buy the $300 Monster cable. It's their new Awesome-o series claiming 100Gb/s up and down stream with 300 Audifo fibers per square milimeter in it. It sounds great.


 
  I only said you don't _need_ to spend extra on cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  And you can't use those anyway with a L9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  If you use interconnects then you're still limiting Awesome-o cables with the HPC-22W.


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> L11 ...
> While a great little accessory, one must know that it
> 1) takes more space (sticks out more) than cabled LODs
> 2) has a larger cross-section area than cabled LODs so those using cases need even larger openings to fit the L11.
> ...


 
   
  I hadn't noticed the larger size, but that's important on an iPhone.  I'm using an iPad so I missed that.  But, smaller means less torque on the iPad connector when it gets bumped, so smaller is safer. 
   
  In my case, I have not noticed a loose fit on the USB mini cable.  Perhaps cables vary, or L11s vary.  
   
  I'll do more study tomorrow.  And try a pricey cable.


----------



## Godot

Can anyone tell me how would E17 compare to ELE DAC + CMoy combo? I'm new when it comes to headphone amps and external DACs and I was considering buying something like ATH-M50 or DT 990 Pro + cheap DAC like ELE and cheap amp like CMoy; but I was wondering if E17, which among other things has a much nicer form factor, might be a better solution. I guess my question is: is E17 worth more than twice the price of ELE+Cmoy?
   
  Thank you.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





godot said:


> Can anyone tell me how would E17 compare to ELE DAC + CMoy combo? I'm new when it comes to headphone amps and external DACs and I was considering buying something like ATH-M50 or DT 990 Pro + cheap DAC like ELE and cheap amp like CMoy; but I was wondering if E17, which among other things has a much nicer form factor, might be a better solution. I guess my question is: is E17 worth more than twice the price of ELE+Cmoy?
> 
> Thank you.


 
  Cmoy's come in different kinds and vairants and that DAC you picked is not very well known or used. A direct comparison is nearly impossible to come up on what you are thinking about and an E17 with a user having all of them.
   
  Is North Face worth twice the price of Columbia jackets? It depends on how you use it and where you go right? Same rationale apply's here.
   
  Is two-in one shampoo and conditioner worth more than seperate ones? You wouldn't know unless you or someone that you trust tells you right? The only problem here for both of these examples is that many of tried them and many have opinions. Over here, it is hard to test units or compare them as there are so many. 
   
  Sadly there is no definite answer for these Unite X vs popular unit Y's as most don't have the Chinese made Unit X from Ebay.


----------



## GreenMan99

I am having no luck getting my E17 to work with my PS3...I got a Optical to Mini Optical cord via Monoprice and have it plugged into the E17 to the PS3.  I have the PS3 set to optical out with the default Linear PCM 2 channel settings.  I have my E17 set to Optical.  I am getting no sound, even in the menus.
   
  Anyone that has had success, can you please tell me how you hooked it up and if it differs from what I have done?  Pretty frustrated and would like to figure out if it's something I'm doing wrong or maybe the cord is busted?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





greenman99 said:


> I am having no luck getting my E17 to work with my PS3...I got a Optical to Mini Optical cord via Monoprice and have it plugged into the E17 to the PS3.  I have the PS3 set to optical out with the default Linear PCM 2 channel settings.  I have my E17 set to Optical.
> Anyone that has had success, can you please tell me how you hooked it up and if it differs from what I have done?  Pretty frustrated and would like to figure out if it's something I'm doing wrong or maybe the cord is busted?


 
  The cord shouldn't be busted.
   
  Your settings look correct.
   
  What other settings are availble in PS3?


----------



## GreenMan99

I'm a numbskull - had the optical plugged into the Aux, not SPDIF input...should have read the manual first!  Sorry about that - and thanks


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





greenman99 said:


> I am having no luck getting my E17 to work with my PS3...I got a Optical to Mini Optical cord via Monoprice and have it plugged into the E17 to the PS3.  I have the PS3 set to optical out with the default Linear PCM 2 channel settings.  I have my E17 set to Optical.  I am getting no sound, even in the menus.
> 
> Anyone that has had success, can you please tell me how you hooked it up and if it differs from what I have done?  Pretty frustrated and would like to figure out if it's something I'm doing wrong or maybe the cord is busted?


 
   
  The first step I might try is to see if the E17 indicates "LOCKED" briefly when you switch input to OPT.  Make sure some music is playing so that there is something to lock to (this is needed on my setup at least).  If no indication, then I'd be looking upstream of the E17.  Doesn't narrow it down much but that's the limits of my expertise.  
   
  I do wonder if the USB output has the same neet to specify settings (linear PCM etc).  If the USB works, I would think that the settings are right, and suspect perhaps the cable, or seating the cable, etc.  Just guessing.  
   
  One hitch I encountered is selecting the correct output.  I don't know what I expected, but when I saw "Built-In Output" in my Mac's output list, I thought "3.5mm headphone out" and forgot that the optical is an alternative to this and so would use the same setting/label.  
   
  Once I did the above, I didn't need to do anything more.  I think the PCM setting etc are determined by the file that iTunes is playing... it can handle various bit rates, but I don't know of any alternative to linear PCM 2 channel come to think of it.


----------



## Stoney

Heh... I wouldn't have thought of such an "obvious" mistake.  That either says something is wrong with my thinking or the use of the term "obvious."  
   
  My most common error is plugging inputs into outputs and vice versa.  Small labeling, low light, old eyes.  Old brain.  But I figured that was "just me." Surely nobody else does that.


----------



## bowei006

The 3.5mm mini toslink plug fits into regular Auxiliary plugs too so it is a regular mistake. Glad you got it working though.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





stoney said:


> Heh... I wouldn't have thought of such an "obvious" mistake.  That either says something is wrong with my thinking or the use of the term "obvious."
> 
> My most common error is plugging inputs into outputs and vice versa.  Small labeling, low light, old eyes.  Old brain.  But I figured that was "just me." Surely nobody else does that.


 
   
  I had a hell of a time trying to get the Optical digital output on my computer to work with the E17.
   
  Finally my wife told me to break the USB connection between the computer and the E17...............success!
  I didn't think that if the USB port was outputing digital audio it would disable the optical output...........


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I had a hell of a time trying to get the Optical digital output on my computer to work with the E17.
> 
> Finally my wife told me to break the USB connection between the computer and the E17...............success!
> I didn't think that if the USB port was outputing digital audio it would disable the optical output...........


 
   
  Depending on your operating system, you probably have to change the Default Device of your audio playback settings to the optical output of your computer, because when you plug it in via USB, the Default Device may be automatically designated to the USB DAC input. Either that, or just disable the USB DAC playback device.


----------



## Godot

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Cmoy's come in different kinds and vairants and that DAC you picked is not very well known or used. A direct comparison is nearly impossible to come up on what you are thinking about and an E17 with a user having all of them.
> 
> Is North Face worth twice the price of Columbia jackets? It depends on how you use it and where you go right? Same rationale apply's here.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, I wasn't looking for a definite answer, and since this is the forum were I heard about the cheap Chinese amp from Ebay in the first place I figured if there's a place on the web where I should ask it's probably here. I'm aware that there are different variations of CMoys and I was looking only for a rough idea how they might compare with E17. I'm sorry If you found my question bothersome, annoying and ultimately stupid and unnecessary, but I don't really have the funds required to experiment with various equipment so I thought I could try and ask here maybe someone could help me, I really had no intention of bothering you or anyone else and I think that there was no need for the condescending tone of your post. Once again I'm sorry if you found my post unnecessary and annoying.
   
  I could, perhaps, rephrase my question, but I guess if I asked whether E17 is, in it's price range, a right fit for DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm and DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm you'd just refer me to your first answer in this Q&A or offer yet another analogy which doesn't help me at all; so I guess I shouldn't even bother?
   
  Anyhow, thanks for your time and sorry you had to suffer through my posts.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





godot said:


> Well, I wasn't looking for a definite answer, and since this is the forum were I heard about the cheap Chinese amp from Ebay in the first place I figured if there's a place on the web where I should ask it's probably here. I'm aware that there are different variations of CMoys and I was looking only for a rough idea how they might compare with E17. I'm sorry If you found my question bothersome, annoying and ultimately stupid and unnecessary, but I don't really have the funds required to experiment with various equipment so I thought I could try and ask here maybe someone could help me, I really had no intention of bothering you or anyone else and I think that there was no need for the condescending tone of your post. Once again I'm sorry if you found my post unnecessary and annoying.
> 
> I could, perhaps, rephrase my question, but I guess if I asked whether E17 is, in it's price range, a right fit for DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm and DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm you'd just refer me to your first answer in this Q&A or offer yet another analogy which doesn't help me at all; so I guess I shouldn't even bother?
> 
> Anyhow, thanks for your time and sorry you had to suffer through my posts.


 
   
   


> othersome, annoying and ultimately stupid and unnecessary,


 
  Sorry, was my dilapidated tone really that bad?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll use emoticons. Text doesn't convey feeling. I just answer questions so it may feel a bit stale.
   
  Oh and sorry about the second point. I don't read name or remember who I reply to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Analogy's are what I try to first put up.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some long standing members have moved away from Head-Fi as too many general questions about those X and Y things. And so I have took it upon myself to be the guy that tries to educate new people when they first arrive on the trends of what happens and why X and Y comparisons can't be done. And if they are done without someone owning or have owned that device, then they are useless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I liked the E17 with the DT770 80 ohm. It became a bit too bassy and warm for my personal prolonged enjoyment but none the less it did quite admirably and well powering it and using it.


----------



## TrollDragon

Hey Godot!
  I really don't think Bowie was condescending at all...
   
  Anyhow... I have the E17 driving my DT880 Pro's and it works like a charm. I don't know anything about that $20 ELE Dac and you'd be wise to get a CMoy from JDS Labs to be sure you would have one with enough power to drive the 250 ohm'ers, but why would you choose a USB only DAC and a battery powered amp to go with it?
   
  If you feel the E17 is too much money then I'd get an E07K, which is the same price as that China DAC and a JDS Labs CMoy.
   
  The E07K has a bass / treble control, variable gain control, does 24/96 resolution, has a rechargeable battery, nice size and a solid build.
  It has basically the same output power as the E17, just no optical / coax input and does not do 24/192 resolution .
   
  Also works a a portable unit and a desktop unit for use with your computer, obviously the best choice.


----------



## Godot

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Analogy's are what I try to first put up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I understand that endless similar questions might be annoying to some and while I really wouldn't like to be a nuisance, since I can't afford myself to go experimenting with various equipment I thought I might try and ask. While I'm perfectly aware that comparisons can't be done without using the equipment in questions I also have no means of knowing what somebody has or doesn't have and what someone tried or didn't try.
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I liked the E17 with the DT770 80 ohm. It became a bit too bassy and warm for my personal prolonged enjoyment but none the less it did quite admirably and well powering it and using it.


 
   
  Thanks.
   
  Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Hey Godot!
> I really don't think Bowie was condescending at all...


 
   
  Well, yeah you might be right; maybe I only interpreted it that way due to my dislike of analogies being used to explain something I could have understood perfectly fine without them. Anyway, it's really not that important.
   
  Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Anyhow... I have the E17 driving my DT880 Pro's and it works like a charm. I don't know anything about that $20 ELE Dac and you'd be wise to get a CMoy from JDS Labs to be sure you would have one with enough power to drive the 250 ohm'ers,


 
   
  Thanks. Yeah I had the JDS Labs' CMoy in mind when I asked.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *TrollDragon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> but why would you choose a USB only DAC and a battery powered amp to go with it?


 
   
  That's a fair point... yeah...
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *TrollDragon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If you feel the E17 is too much money then I'd get an E07K, which is the same price as that China DAC and a JDS Labs CMoy.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, that's actually the answer I needed; I probably should get E07K instead. It indeed seems to be the best, the simplest, most convenient and very reasonably priced solution. Thank you!
   
  Once again; I apologize for coming with X vs Y type of question, but I'm a newb so you've got to cut me some slack, right? Now with that said, bowei, I do hope you won't have any resentment towards me on the account of all this.
   
  Anyway, guys; once again thanks for your helps and my sincere apologies for any nuisance I might have caused you.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





godot said:


> I understand that endless similar questions might be annoying to some and while I really wouldn't like to be a nuisance, since I can't afford myself to go experimenting with various equipment I thought I might try and ask. While I'm perfectly aware that comparisons can't be done without using the equipment in questions I also have no means of knowing what somebody has or doesn't have and what someone tried or didn't try.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> ...


 
  I resent you with all my heart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just kidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The E07K is very similar to E17 as well. It has a slight roll off in the highs and a bit of a boom-tastic base but from my expereince with the DT770 80 ohm, that may be for the better. People that use that Beyer generally like a good bass and I personally found some brightness on the dT770's.


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





> The E07K is very similar to E17 as well. It has a slight roll off in the highs and a bit of a boom-tastic base


 
   
  I have the opposite view.  
  The E17 is a tad bright; I even need to turn the treble down one click.  
  And the E7 and E07K are said to be similar -- my E7 is even more bright than the E17.  
  Both have flat, solid bass.  
   
  I'm using various equipment so that I get a good perspective, but not perfect, on what "is neutral" versus what "seems neutral".  
   
  Of the E7 and E17, I would only get the E7 if you want those features and don't care that it blanches out the body of the music noticeably.  Sounds detailed and thus engaging, but grates subliminally after a time, particularly with my PFE 232 Phonak IEMS which have a bit of grain anyway.  Yet, the E7 is a bargain.  The E17 has more features, and sounds definitely better.  But still, when I switch to the iPad 3 (DAC and line out) plus Arrow amp ($300, all analog), I discover (sometimes startlingly) how vivid and 3D sound can be from headphoness.  It comes to life compared to the FiiO amps that seem somehow thin and crisp by comparison.
   
  Other thant the 232s, I use modified HD650 with Cardas Clear Light 1 meter exclusively.  Other sources are varied: Perreaux, headphone outs of SACD players (currently the SCD-XA5400ES), WA-6 tube amp (too soft on detail and rather midrangy, but lovely if boring).


----------



## Chris J

godot said:


> Well, I wasn't looking for a definite answer, and since this is the forum were I heard about the cheap Chinese amp from Ebay in the first place I figured if there's a place on the web where I should ask it's probably here. I'm aware that there are different variations of CMoys and I was looking only for a rough idea how they might compare with E17. I'm sorry If you found my question bothersome, annoying and ultimately stupid and unnecessary, but I don't really have the funds required to experiment with various equipment so I thought I could try and ask here maybe someone could help me, I really had no intention of bothering you or anyone else and I think that there was no need for the condescending tone of your post. Once again I'm sorry if you found my post unnecessary and annoying.
> 
> I could, perhaps, rephrase my question, but I guess if I asked whether E17 is, in it's price range, a right fit for DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm and DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm you'd just refer me to your first answer in this Q&A or offer yet another analogy which doesn't help me at all; so I guess I shouldn't even bother?
> 
> Anyhow, thanks for your time and sorry you had to suffer through my posts.




Welcome to Head Fi (no sarcasm intended!)
Yes, text can seem a bit cold.
I know I've P.O. legions on Head Fi.......

Anyway, food for thought: the E17 will have more long term versatility.
You may be able to buy a used one for $120-100, or even less.
That's how I got my E17.

Cheers, 
C J


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





stoney said:


> Of the E7 and E17, I would only get the E7 if you want those features and don't care that it blanches out the body of the music noticeably.  Sounds detailed and thus engaging, but grates subliminally after a time, particularly with my PFE 232 Phonak IEMS which have a bit of grain anyway.  Yet, the E7 is a bargain.  The E17 has more features, and sounds definitely better.  But still, when I switch to the iPad 3 (DAC and line out) plus Arrow amp ($300, all analog), I discover (sometimes startlingly) how vivid and 3D sound can be from headphoness.  It comes to life compared to the FiiO amps that seem somehow thin and crisp by comparison.


 
   
  This is one of the things that really bothers me about Head-Fi sometimes...
   
  Buddy comes here asking about justifying the cost difference between an E17 versus a  $20 White Box DAC & $60 Mint Tin amp to drive a pair of 250 ohm beyerdynamic's... Then there always seems to be someone with $600 IEMS, $400+ Source and a $300 or better amp that needs to point out the blatant obvious of how much better they sound over the cheap ***** FiiO gear, and in an E17 thread even...
   
  No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> I have the opposite view.
> The E17 is a tad bright; I even need to turn the treble down one click.
> And the E7 and E07K are said to be similar -- my E7 is even more bright than the E17.
> Both have flat, solid bass.
> ...


 
   
  Well we each have our own. I played many songs with key highs and got to my conclusion.
  Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> This is one of the things that really bothers me about Head-Fi sometimes...
> 
> Buddy comes here asking about justifying the cost difference between an E17 versus a  $20 White Box DAC & $60 Mint Tin amp to drive a pair of 250 ohm beyerdynamic's... Then there always seems to be someone with $600 IEMS, $400+ Source and a $300 or better amp that needs to point out the* blatant obvious of how much better they sound over the cheap ***** FiiO gear, and in an E17 thread even...*
> 
> No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.


 
  +1


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> This is one of the things that really bothers me about Head-Fi sometimes...
> 
> Buddy comes here asking about justifying the cost difference between an E17 versus a  $20 White Box DAC & $60 Mint Tin amp to drive a pair of 250 ohm beyerdynamic's... Then there always seems to be someone with $600 IEMS, $400+ Source and a $300 or better amp that needs to point out the blatant obvious of how much better they sound over the cheap ***** FiiO gear, and in an E17 thread even...
> 
> No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.


 
   
  People own the gear that they own.
  It's only natural from them to compare different pieces of equipment they own.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> People own the gear that they own.
> It's only natural from them to compare different pieces of equipment they own.


 
  Yeah but its counter intuitive when one make an obvious claim
   
  Going into a Mitsubishi Eclipse thread and saying that while it is good, your Bugatti does it quite much better etc etc
   
  is a bit stale.


----------



## jacobi

Hi guys,
   
  I've recently bought HD 558, i'm planning to use it for home theater. Using E17 as dac, and plugging my tv via optical seemed like a good idea.
   
  Is it practical or should i consider another amp ? Thanks.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jacobi said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've recently bought HD 558, i'm planning to use it for home theater. Using E17 as dac, and plugging my tv via optical seemed like a good idea.
> 
> Is it practical or should i consider another amp ? Thanks.


 
  If you just needed a device for home theatre and not a portable device, units from ARCAM and HRT are more recommended.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> If you just needed a device for home theatre and not a portable device, units from ARCAM and HRT are more recommended.




Do you realize what you just did? LOL! 

I assume you are referring to the cheaper Arcam and HRT DACs!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Do you realize what you just did? LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  HRT Music Streamer II ($150 model) and Arcam rPAC ($170) are quite popular for it. I never got my hands on an HRT MSII but I did receive the rPAC for review. Using it as a DAC for home theatre units is quite decent. If you need a small device that doens't need an AC adapter that is.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





jacobi said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've recently bought HD 558, i'm planning to use it for home theater. Using E17 as dac, and plugging my tv via optical seemed like a good idea.
> 
> Is it practical or should i consider another amp ? Thanks.


 

 If TV and computer aren't very far apart and you can connect both at once without the need of moving the DAC/AMP, then a desktop model (or w/o internal batteries) would be better suited for you IMO.
  But of course, if you enjoy the fact that these can be used as part of a portable rig, then yes, it would certainly be practical.
  Mine is connected to computer & PS3 (share the same monitor) and I take it out as portable amp once in a while. Much less now in winter though, cold aluminum is... well, cold. And I don't bring out the harder to drive headphones in winter.


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





> No offense Stoney but I am seeing this more and more around Head-Fi.


 
   
  Oooh, suddenly there is this class warfare.    
   
  It is hard for me to notice whether I am thread hijacking (hard given 353 pages) or derailing the subject of the day... I'm not able to follow very well for several reasons (time, illness, etc).  
   
  So, as I write post, I'm not necessarily making a response, but an outflow of what I'm discovering as I tinker.  It isn't intended as a reply, or a debate, so much as to toss out another set of observations.  I get value from various directions... maybe I'll be one of those for someone else. 
   
  That I have different equipment, can be another useful set of glasses through which to take a look.  Even though, yes, I use some pricier equipment with the E17, I find it helps isolate sound quality of the lower cost item.  Sure, system synergy is key, particularly at modest prices and for portable rigs.  But, philosophically, I just tend to think of units in isolation.  Then, assemble a system of near-ideal components rather than combine something bassy with something trebly, for example.  
   
  Also, I come from a background of acoustics and reviewing such that I can't help but look at things in my certain way.  Doesn't mean it is right for a particular member here or their equipment... just another bit of info.


----------



## UnityIsPower

Just a bit of info... My HFi580s sounded better out of my asus monitors headphone out then the Xbox to E17 using optical lol.


----------



## catspaw

I wanted to comment on something i read a few posts back.
  On the battery side, In general battery is affected by a large number of factors that will either increas or decrease its performance/lifetime.
  As an example, i used an MP3 from LG (JM-53 i think it was) for over 6 years and the battery was still holding a strong 15 hours time, from an original 36 H.
  That beeing said, my Cowon i9, has a battery of bearly 7 hours after 1 year use (thou the device is far smaller than my LG).
   
  Humidity, Temperature, Charge Powers, ammount of on/off turns.... All of this affects the battery and it can even flat out kill it.
  In theory, having a battery fullycharged all time is bad, but if i remmber correctly, todays batteries should not be fully charged only if the device is not beeing used for an extended period of time (like 3+ months).
   
  I normally to ensure battery lifespan drain it till the devices turns off once a month moreless. (In fact this happens naturally as i simply forget to charge it from time to time, or leave it on unaware).
   
  Also, one thing i discovered:
   
  When you first turn the Fiio E17 into a laptop, it will by default go to 16 bit quality/44khz.
  I did not even know that you have to change it to 24 bit/96k manually in the windows settings.
  It improved my sound quite drasticly i have to say.


----------



## bowei006

unityispower said:


> Just a bit of info... My HFi580s sounded better out of my asus monitors headphone out then the Xbox to E17 using optical lol.


Better is subjective. I personally find that you have a tendency for coloration over the year. I have an Asus monitor.


----------



## UnityIsPower

bowei006 said:


> Better is subjective. I personally find that you have a tendency for coloration over the year. I have an Asus monitor.


 

hmmm... I find that I like less coloration over the years. Lol. The thing about headphones that color sound is... they don't represent the music as it was intended. (Given u remember our conv's)As I have listened to more music and tried out more headphones, a bass emphases has been less and less important to me. One might get a kick every now and then from bass prominent phones with bassy music but I now flavor true to recording reproduction. What I experienced with the asus monitor was a cleaner sound output then the Fiio E17. Background noises had more texture to them and separation was easier to detect. Even after upping the volume on the FiiO, this difference stayed consistent. I tried different gain setting as well as adding some EQ. I also had to deal with less clutter just plugging my phones into the monitor. This also stayed the same whether I was playing a game or music. The monitor was a VS247H-P and I ended up selling my FiiO E17. Note I have also sold my DJ 1's. Aside from cleaning up the noise a bit off my PC and adding more bass on my iPhone 4, the E17 ended up being used less and less. The DJ1 where still used but I have moved to a more warm-analytical sound. Updating my profile now.


----------



## Chris J

catspaw said:


> Also, one thing i discovered:
> 
> When you first turn the Fiio E17 into a laptop, it will by default go to 16 bit quality/44khz.
> I did not even know that you have to change it to 24 bit/96k manually in the windows settings.
> It improved my sound quite drasticly i have to say.




Oh.............ummmmm, how do you do this?


----------



## billiek

Hello! Excuse my long post!
   
I have a few questions regarding the functionality of the E17 + L7 coupled with a speakers + amp + computer.
  
 I have a set of Dali Zensor 7 speakers with a NAD C316BEE amplifier connected to the 3.5mm on the back of my computer (which has ASUS P7P55D-E PRO as motherboard).
  
 I do not have any decent headphones yet, but have been lurking Head-Fi and other forums, and will be buying a (mid-fi?) can; to give you an idea which range I've been looking at I've tried/am interested in (in no particular order): Sennheiser Momentum, Sony MDR-1R, V-MODA M-100 (haven't been able to try these) and looking into more. Portable, circumaural and closed-back ~€200-300.
  
 I'm interested in buying the Fiio E17 with the L7 adapter for two reasons:
  

 To use as a portable headphone amp & DAC coupled with my HTC One X as I believe it might be rubbish when it comes to audio. HTC One X phone (Spotify 320 kbps) --> Fiio E17 --> Headphones.
 To use as a DAC for my Dali speakers as I believe (please do correct me if I'm wrong!) it would be an improvement over the motherboard. If I understand it correctly it would connect like: Computer (Spotify 320 kbps) --> Fiio E17 (via L7 adapter) --> NAD speaker amp --> Dali speakers.
   
  
 My questions:

 Have I understood how this works/connects correctly?
 Will the E17 work well as a DAC for my stationary setup if I use the L7? I understand a stationary DAC might be better - but with the (cost-)efficiency of having one device that can be docked for stationary or pulled out for mobile use this might be a better solution?
 Will it improve the sound although it's still a 3.5mm going out from the L7 to the amp?
 My computer (/motherboard) has S/PDIF (slots? sockets? ...line outs?), but not the amplifier - can the E17 help me utilize the S/PDIF for my speakers? (This feels like a no-brainer, but.. in case there's something I've missed..)
 Is there another alternative I should look at instead?
   
 The E17's performance has been praised by many people from different sources whilst not being very expensive. Also, with my stationary setup and the L7 adapter it could prove to be a very flexible and cost-effective way for me to improve the sound of both my stationary and (near-future) mobile setup.
  
 If you've read this far - whether or not you have any advice - thank you for your time!
  
 /billiek, fledgling.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





billiek said:


> My computer (/motherboard) has S/PDIF (slots? sockets? ...line outs?), but not the amplifier - can the E17 help me utilize the S/PDIF for my speakers? (This feels like a no-brainer, but.. in case there's something I've missed..)


 
   
  Hi, I'll answer that one: Yes, the E17 has Optical IN, so you can put it between the computer and the amplifier.


----------



## PhrozenLife

Could anybody help me?
   
  My e17 just stopped responding and when plugged into a source of power, does not emit the light under the power button.
  There is a sound notification when I plug it into my computer however there is no indication of the e17 turned on as the screen and power button light is off. I tried using different usb ports, different usb cables..
   
  I noticed there was a very faint red coming from the power button, I'm suspecting that the power of the e17 is the problem. I got this e17 last summer, but I don't think any problems should arise from such a short period of time.. 
   
  EDIT: ahahah, nevermind, I thought I had tried resetting the unit before however I wasn't making any contact with the reset button with my flimsy pair of toothpicks. Just retried it a few times with my lead pencil. Worked like a charm. ^^;;


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





phrozenlife said:


> Could anybody help me?
> 
> My e17 just stopped responding and when plugged into a source of power, does not emit the light under the power button.
> There is a sound notification when I plug it into my computer however there is no indication of the e17 turned on as the screen and power button light is off. I tried using different usb ports, different usb cables..
> ...


 
  Problem solving steps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 These are what I like to see. People going through the steps step by step to get the answer. The majority of these problems are simple fixes.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Oh.............ummmmm, how do you do this?


 
   
  I assume some sarcasm here about the mis-phrasing of 'turning your E17 into a laptop' and not how you configure the E17 to lock at 96KHz 24 bit for playback? But just in case you weren't being sarcastic and really wanted to know how to lock the E17 at 96KHz for playback, here's how you do it:
   
  On a Mac you go into Applications - Utilities - Audio Midi Setup, choose the Fiio E17 from the list of playback devices and then set the output format as 96.000KHz and 2 ch - 24 bit integer.
   
   

   
  On a Windows 7 box, open Control Panel, Hardware and Sound, Sound, choose the Playback tab, highlight the Fiio E17 USB DAC device and choose Properties at the bottom of the window. When the Properties dialog open, deselect everything except 96KHz and click Apply and OK. Then when you playback with the Fiio E17 as the selected output device, the E17 should display 96KHz and 24 bit as the sample rate/bit depth on its screen. 
   
   
 
   
  Dale


----------



## iwannasomepho

I have the E17 for quite some time. I'm not sure what the next step is.


----------



## Chris J

agentxxl said:


> I assume some sarcasm here about the mis-phrasing of 'turning your E17 into a laptop' and not how you configure the E17 to lock at 96KHz 24 bit for playback? But just in case you weren't being sarcastic and really wanted to know how to lock the E17 at 96KHz for playback, here's how you do it:
> 
> On a Mac you go into Applications - Utilities - Audio Midi Setup, choose the Fiio E17 from the list of playback devices and then set the output format as 96.000KHz and 2 ch - 24 bit integer.
> 
> ...




No sarcasm intended! 
I really don't know how to set up my computer for 96 k!
Thanks for the help, I'll have to try this out tonight!


----------



## catspaw

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Oh.............ummmmm, how do you do this?


 
   
  Oh nvm, XXL guy already answered this much better .


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> I assume some sarcasm here about the mis-phrasing of 'turning your E17 into a laptop' and not how you configure the E17 to lock at 96KHz 24 bit for playback? But just in case you weren't being sarcastic and really wanted to know how to lock the E17 at 96KHz for playback, here's how you do it:
> 
> On a Mac you go into Applications - Utilities - Audio Midi Setup, choose the Fiio E17 from the list of playback devices and then set the output format as 96.000KHz and 2 ch - 24 bit integer.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





catspaw said:


> Oh nvm, XXL guy already answered this much better .


 
   
  Arrgghh!
   
  I still have Windows XP! Yes, it's true!
  Looks like I can't change to 96 kHz with Windows XP?
   
  Signed,
  Mr. "not very good with computers"


----------



## jacobi

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> If TV and computer aren't very far apart and you can connect both at once without the need of moving the DAC/AMP, then a desktop model (or w/o internal batteries) would be better suited for you IMO.
> But of course, if you enjoy the fact that these can be used as part of a portable rig, then yes, it would certainly be practical.
> Mine is connected to computer & PS3 (share the same monitor) and I take it out as portable amp once in a while. Much less now in winter though, cold aluminum is... well, cold. And I don't bring out the harder to drive headphones in winter.


 
  Hmm. I've read about dts encoding issues that's why i wanted to ask, my main goal is using  optical/coax for the sound, fiio seems perfect for this matter.
   
  If i plug my headphone through E17 and toslink to my tv ( which has an internal media player for movies) will i have dts encoding issues, or will i have toslink quality sound ( whether dts or pcm actually, since i'm using a headphone and it's not surround, i don't think there'll be a difference. )
   
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## marcookie

Since this is a E17 thread, why would you suggest this over the E07K?
  I'm using AKG K601, from a laptop or from a galaxy s3. And I think to complete the E09K in the near future...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





marcookie said:


> Since this is a E17 thread, why would you suggest this over the E17?
> I'm using AKG K601, from a laptop or from a galaxy s3. And I think to complete the E09K in the near future...


 
  I don't know why I would suggest an E17 over an E17.


----------



## marcookie

This was actually fun for me... sorry for the distraction.


----------



## Teddy Tc

I just got my e17 , looking forward to the commute tomorrow


----------



## KBerube80

Question:  Am I able to connect my E17 to my Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CDP via SPDIF, bypass the E17's DAC, and just utilize the amp section?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kberube80 said:


> Question:  Am I able to connect my E17 to my Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CDP via SPDIF, bypass the E17's DAC, and just utilize the amp section?


 
  No.
   
  S/PDIF is digital. Meaning you would be bypassing the DAC of the Cambridge (if there was one) and using another DAC unit.
   
  If you just want to use E17's amp section. You use AUX in.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





jacobi said:


> Hmm. I've read about dts encoding issues that's why i wanted to ask, my main goal is using  optical/coax for the sound, fiio seems perfect for this matter.
> 
> If i plug my headphone through E17 and toslink to my tv ( which has an internal media player for movies) will i have dts encoding issues, or will i have toslink quality sound ( whether dts or pcm actually, since i'm using a headphone and it's not surround, i don't think there'll be a difference. )
> 
> Thanks for the help.


 
  Hm... considering my home setup, whether for TV or computer, is rather modest, I don't have first hand experience to share with you in regards to that. I was simply commenting on a usability/versatility/convenience point of view. Also never looking into that much technical details regarding different codecs and such.
   
  My only optical source is a PS3. I just turn the audio system to Stereo (not that I had ANY 2.1 or more complex systems to begin with, so it was simple). If you meant whether Alpen does a good job at decoding SPDIF signal, I have no prior base for comparison but it hasn't proved me any trouble or artifacts thus far. So... if I am understanding right, I guess my answer would be no DTS encoding issues as far as PS3 is concerned, used in Stereo audio output.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Arrgghh!
> 
> I still have Windows XP! Yes, it's true!
> Looks like I can't change to 96 kHz with Windows XP?
> ...


 
   
  Windows XP handles audio differently in that it by default will send audio bit for bit, i.e. no sample rate conversion. This actually provides the best sounding audio as your 96/24 audio files will play at that rate/bit depth and your 44.1/16 audio will play at its rate/bit depth. Some programs (like Foobar2000) allow you to lock the output to a higher sample rate/bit depth (i.e. upsampling), but this can cause all sorts of issues. On a system with well written drivers, upsampling won't hurt the audio, but leaving XP configured to automatically adjust playback rate/bit depth is preferred. XP natively only handles up to 96/24 so anything above that will either be downsampled or not play at all, depending on the player software you use. See this article on the Benchmark wiki about XP's handling of sample rate and bit depth:
   
  http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_XP_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide
   
  If you have some audio at various bit rates, try playing them back in a player like VLC and you'll see the sample rate/bit depth automatically change on your E17 to match the format of the audio file you are playing. If you don't have any 96/24 audio, go to HDTracks.com and sign up to download a hires music sampler. Here's the link:
   
  https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=landing
   
  Hope that helps! And my hopefully my comment about sarcasm wasn't taken too seriously... it's often difficult to understand what people write and what they actually mean.  Enjoy!!
   
  Dale


----------



## Chris J

agentxxl said:


> Windows XP handles audio differently in that it by default will send audio bit for bit, i.e. no sample rate conversion. This actually provides the best sounding audio as your 96/24 audio files will play at that rate/bit depth and your 44.1/16 audio will play at its rate/bit depth. Some programs (like Foobar2000) allow you to lock the output to a higher sample rate/bit depth (i.e. upsampling), but this can cause all sorts of issues. On a system with well written drivers, upsampling won't hurt the audio, but leaving XP configured to automatically adjust playback rate/bit depth is preferred. XP natively only handles up to 96/24 so anything above that will either be downsampled or not play at all, depending on the player software you use. See this article on the Benchmark wiki about XP's handling of sample rate and bit depth:
> 
> http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_XP_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide
> 
> ...




Thanks for the help, and the links, Dale.
In hindsight, my question was very ambiguous.
I was actually trying sound embarrassed.
I guess it didn't read that way! LOL

Chris


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Hm... considering my home setup, whether for TV or computer, is rather modest, I don't have first hand experience to share with you in regards to that. I was simply commenting on a usability/versatility/convenience point of view. Also never looking into that much technical details regarding different codecs and such.
> 
> My only optical source is a PS3. I just turn the audio system to Stereo (not that I had ANY 2.1 or more complex systems to begin with, so it was simple). If you meant whether Alpen does a good job at decoding SPDIF signal, I have no prior base for comparison but it hasn't proved me any trouble or artifacts thus far. So... if I am understanding right, I guess my answer would be no DTS encoding issues as far as PS3 is concerned, used in Stereo audio output.


 
   
  Jacobi/Kalbee,
   
  The info provided so far is correct but I'll just try and add a little. The SPDIF input on the E17 handles only up to 2 channel digital audio. The E17 has no codec support for Dolby Digital or DTS. If you are trying to simulate a surround field in your headphones, the E17 isn't necessarily the best option out there. If your source offers Dolby Headphone or similar processing, the E17 should be able to accept that audio stream digitally and do a pretty good job of surround field recreation. That said, I've never been happy with Dolby Headphone or similar processing algorithms.
   
  If you really want to listen to surround DTS or Dolby Digital audio, you'll need to look for something like the Astro Gaming Mixamp or Mixamp Pro (Dolby Digital only) or if you really want something unique, the new DTS Headphone X solution looks to be a winner at CES 2013. Apparently DTS Headphone X will simulate up to 11.1 channels on devices that support the DTS Headphone X technology. Alas we'll have to wait until 2nd quarter 2013 for devices to start appearing with DTS Headphone X technology - it's not likely going to be backwards compatible via a software codec, but we'll have to wait and see. And the nice thing is that it uses whatever headphones you want to use, anything from earbuds/IEMs to flagship headphones like the Sennheiser HD800.
   
  Dale


----------



## DemonFox

With the new improvements to the e07k is the e17 still the better option??


----------



## MrTissues

I own Audeo PFE Golds (bought before they were labeled gold, I guess they are the same), and Grado SR80s  
   
  There is a really good price on this DAC/Amp from this site: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44985_FiiO-E17-Alpen-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier-DAC.html
   
  Would I see much benefit in sound quality when using it from a Macbook Pro?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





demonfox said:


> With the new improvements to the e07k is the e17 still the better option??


 
   
  Really the biggest difference between the two is that the E17 has two extra digital input modes in SPDIF coaxial and Toslink.
   
  Personally, I like the extra versatility of the E17 digital inputs.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





demonfox said:


> With the new improvements to the e07k is the e17 still the better option??


 
  The E07K has almost the same amount of power as the E17. Has same battery life, same features (EQ and Line out) and same size. However the quality of the E17's amp and it's various extra input methods do warrant the extra $40-$50 for many.


----------



## Chris J

Is there an echo in here?


----------



## kalbee

------ an echo in here?


----------



## bowei006

Is there an echo in hereeeee?


----------



## jacobi

Thanks a lot @kalbee, @agentxxl. Let's just simplify this issue a bit. What happens when you plug your E17 to your computer SPDIF, and try to watch a dts/dolby encoded film ? Is the movie performance satisfactory ?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jacobi said:


> Thanks a lot @kalbee, @agentxxl. Let's just simplify this issue a bit. What happens when you plug your E17 to your computer SPDIF, and try to watch a dts/dolby encoded film ? Is the movie performance satisfactory ?


 
  Depends on what you mean. There is Dolby/DTS laced PCM that is multi channel. Those won't work. E17 only supports Stereo PCM
   
  But ones who uses a software to add the special effect into the stereo stream (be it stereo or multi channel) will work.Those aren't too high quality though and have very fake sounding spaceyess


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





jacobi said:


> Thanks a lot @kalbee, @agentxxl. Let's just simplify this issue a bit. What happens when you plug your E17 to your computer SPDIF, and try to watch a dts/dolby encoded film ? Is the movie performance satisfactory ?


 
   
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Depends on what you mean. There is Dolby/DTS laced PCM that is multi channel. Those won't work. E17 only supports Stereo PCM
> 
> But ones who uses a software to add the special effect into the stereo stream (be it stereo or multi channel) will work.Those aren't too high quality though and have very fake sounding spaceyess


 
   
  As bowei mentioned (and I mentioned earlier), the E17 doesn't support multichannel audio. The digital inputs can only handle stereo PCM input. When I watch a movie or tv show that's been encoded in multichannel, I just make sure the software I use is set to downsample to two channel PCM stereo. Admittedly the soundstage isn't anywhere near the same as watching on a full 7.1 or better surround setup using speakers, but the performance is still quite amazing actually. Downsampled multichannel audio is pretty impressive when done well.
   
  As we also mentioned, I wouldn't bother trying to use effects processors to overlay a pseudo-surround stage onto the downsampled two channel audio. Software DSP like Dolby Headphone or DTS Neo don't do a good enough job in re-creating the surround stage. Another option that I've occasionally used is the JVC SU-DH1 headphone processor and that does decode Dolby Digital and DTS via hardware DSP into a decent 2 channel headphone mix.
   

   
  Using this unit I connect it as follows:
   
SPDIF digital out (TOSLink Mini cable) ----> JVC SU-DH1 ---> E17 Aux In or E9 Line In as Amplifier ---> Headphones
   
This allows me to decode Dolby Digital 5.1/DTS 5.1/Dolby PL II/MPEG-2 AAC into one of three separate Dolby Headphone modes, and also allows me to further customize the soundstage by selecting auto, movie or music mode. The gotcha is the mess of wiring needed to make it work. I've got a picture somewhere of it fully connected to my MacBook Pro and it's somewhat overwhelming with the ac adapter modification I made so that I don't have to power my SU-DH1 by batteries. If I find the pic, I'll post it. One other things about the SU-DH1 - it's very hard to find and purchase but only sells for $100 to $150. I bought mine for $120 if I remember correctly. If you really want a decent surround soundstage, this is a decent option. That said, it's as much as buying the E17 by itself, so for most it probably isn't worth it. I'll admit that I rarely use the SU-DH1 but occasionally it's fun to hookup and watch a show or two. Most of the time I'm content watching my movies and tv shows with downsampled 2 channel audio through the E17/E9 combo. Now that I've thoroughly confused you, fire away if you have more questions. 
   
  Dale


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





jacobi said:


> Thanks a lot @kalbee, @agentxxl. Let's just simplify this issue a bit. What happens when you plug your E17 to your computer SPDIF, and try to watch a dts/dolby encoded film ? Is the movie performance satisfactory ?


 
   
  Depends.
  If you are watching any of The Terminator movies AND you are wearing headphones, your head will explode.
  But if you are watching Prometheus, your guts will explode.
  I know this guy it happened to.


----------



## bowei006

If you are watching Pokemon, your heart will explode
   
  If you are watching Just Beiber's new movie. The family jews will be gone.


----------



## Chris J

And if you are watching Justin Beiber's girlfriend?


----------



## gohanssjn

I have an E17 from before the Alpen printing on the back.  Any issues I should be watching out for as it ages?  Was the headphone jack some were reporting an issue for a lot of folks?
   
  I don;t use it every day or anything so I am sure it will still last, but I like to take preventative measures vs. repairs.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I have an E17 from before the Alpen printing on the back.  Any issues I should be watching out for as it ages?  Was the headphone jack some were reporting an issue for a lot of folks?
> 
> I don;t use it every day or anything so I am sure it will still last, but I like to take preventative measures vs. repairs.


 
   
  Umm,
  don't drop it in water! or let it get wet!
  don't keep it somewhere hot, let it breathe, heat is the enemy of all things electronic!


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





gohanssjn said:


> I have an E17 from before the Alpen printing on the back.  Any issues I should be watching out for as it ages?  Was the headphone jack some were reporting an issue for a lot of folks?
> 
> I don;t use it every day or anything so I am sure it will still last, but I like to take preventative measures vs. repairs.


 

 With mine, the headphone jack, yes.
  I kind of miss the "E17" print.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Does anyone know if you are still getting some gain out of the E17 even with the gain setting at 0db? Would having the unit set at 0db considered "low gain" 6db being a mid level and 12 being high gain?

 I think something had been mentioned previously about this in the thread but I can't find it


----------



## gohanssjn

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Umm,
> don't drop it in water! or let it get wet!
> don't keep it somewhere hot, let it breathe, heat is the enemy of all things electronic!


 
  Lol.


----------



## markm1

[size=10pt]I've been lurking and getting a lot of great info from Head-fi. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I've just purchased my first headphones-Grado 225 and I'm looking for some good options for a first amp. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]The 17 looks like a good starting point to me. I'm trying to decide if it makes sense to pair it with the the E 9 or just use it alone. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Let me see if I understand this right: The advantage of the 17/9 combo is that you get a portable amp and DAC plus a designated desk amp in one pretty affordable package. Does that sound about right? [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]My other thought would be to get the e17 and then wait to get a full size amp later.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I'd love some advice relative to the merits of combining the E17 w/ the E9 one way or the other.[/size]


----------



## markm1

[size=10pt]I've been lurking and getting a lot of great info from Head-fi. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I've just purchased my first headphones-Grado 225 and I'm looking for some good options for a first amp. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]The 17 looks like a good starting point to me. I'm trying to decide if it makes sense to pair it with the the E 9 or just use it alone. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Let me see if I understand this right: The advantage of the 17/9 combo is that you get a portable amp and DAC plus a designated desk amp in one pretty affordable package. Does that sound about right? [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]My other thought would be to get the e17 and then wait to get a full size amp later.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I'd love some advice relative to the merits of combining the E17 w/ the E9 one way or the other.[/size]


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> [size=10pt]I've been lurking and getting a lot of great info from Head-fi. [/size]
> 
> [size=x-small]...[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]I'd love some advice relative to the merits of combining the E17 w/ the E9 one way or the other.[/size]


 
   
  Welcome to the forum as a poster! And of course the usual salutary greeting 'Sorry about your wallet!!' 
   
  As far as the E17/E9 combo, I can't say I've been more pleased. For the money, the combo has to be one of the best deals going for a portable DAC/amp that some call 'mediocre' but is really quite impressive and well-featured. I've compared it to much higher priced models using the same Wolfson DAC and to my ears, the DAC does as good of a job as most of the pricier models. The feature set supporting coaxial and optical SPDIF, USB DAC and AUX in is pretty hard to come by at this price point. And add the desktop E9 (now E09K) to the bundle, and the combo shines even more! Docking the E17 in the E09K gives you the extra power to drive headphones that are typically harder to drive, i.e. 250 ohm and above. And you still get to use all the features of the E17. The only aspect that isn't used when docked is the AUX in, but the E09K has it's own line in so it's not missed.
   
  If it's your first headphone amp/DAC, you might be happier with just the E17, especially since your Grado 225s have a low impedance of 32 ohms. That said, a lot of the comments I've read about the 225 (and others by Grado) is that they really benefit from an amp. Certainly adding the E09K to the bundle won't disappoint, and in the absolutely worst case scenario that you don't feel you like or need it, the E09K can be easily resold by itself or as part of a bundle with the E17 should you decide to move up to a higher end amp/DAC. Personally I don't see myself selling the E17/E9 until something better comes along at a similar price point. I do have plans to buy a better desktop amp and possibly DAC (looking at the Schiit Mjolnir and Gungnir combo) but the E17/E9 will remain part of my arsenal for quite a while.
   
  Dale


----------



## Teddy Tc

Any way to get my lovely little E17 to remember its volume setting?


----------



## Teddy Tc

Oh wait. That'll be the obvious 
Volume mem setting then.
Doh


----------



## visanj

Could anyone please help me out in this?
   
  If I connect my E17 to Macbook air via USB, I could see the charging bars active but it is not getting detected in macbook air sound option. Sound is also not playing via E17
   
  Thanks


----------



## GSARider

I'm assuming that you've checked in system preferences and selected it like below? Btw, mine is set to Optical link to my macbook.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> I'm assuming that you've checked in system preferences and selected it like below? Btw, mine is set to Optical link to my macbook.


 
   
   
  In system preferences I could see only 'Internal Speakers' as option. no other option available. I think it is not detecting E17 but I don't why it suddenly not working. Yesterday it was working fine


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





mani ath 87 said:


> Does anyone know if you are still getting some gain out of the E17 even with the gain setting at 0db? Would having the unit set at 0db considered "low gain" 6db being a mid level and 12 being high gain?
> 
> I think something had been mentioned previously about this in the thread but I can't find it


 
   
  I'd like to answer this.
  But I'm not too sure what you are asking.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Does it matter?
  One way to answer this is to say that the output of a typical CD player or DAC has more than enough voltage to drive just about any headphone. (Typical CD Player or DAC may not output enough current to drive a headphone, though.)
  Normally you have to _reduce_ the voltage to listen at a reasonable volume.
   
  BTW,  0 dB is low gain, 6 dB being a mid level and 12 dB being high gain. As you know, many headphone amps have a gain of 20 dB.
   
  Normally, I set gain to 0 dB and adjust the volume control.


----------



## markm1

Thanks so much Dale!
   
  Sounds like a winner. I'm sort of debating this como or getting the E 17 and/or one of the little dot amps that seem popular w/ a lot of Grado owners.
   
  If I get the Little Dot 1+ as a desk amp, I think I'd want something protable as well, since I do about 80% of my listening w/ an IPOD moving around the house-the portability of the E17 combo is pretty appealing. And, then the e9 would give me a desk amp as well-all in one shot.
   
  Yeah, and then as you say, maybe waiting a bit and investing in a higher end desk amp in the future. Decisions, decisions!
   
  Cheers,
  Mark
   
  Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Welcome to the forum as a poster! And of course the usual salutary greeting 'Sorry about your wallet!!'
> 
> As far as the E17/E9 combo, I can't say I've been more pleased. For the money, the combo has to be one of the best deals going for a portable DAC/amp that some call 'mediocre' but is really quite impressive and well-featured. I've compared it to much higher priced models using the same Wolfson DAC and to my ears, the DAC does as good of a job as most of the pricier models. The feature set supporting coaxial and optical SPDIF, USB DAC and AUX in is pretty hard to come by at this price point. And add the desktop E9 (now E09K) to the bundle, and the combo shines even more! Docking the E17 in the E09K gives you the extra power to drive headphones that are typically harder to drive, i.e. 250 ohm and above. And you still get to use all the features of the E17. The only aspect that isn't used when docked is the AUX in, but the E09K has it's own line in so it's not missed.
> 
> ...


----------



## Stoney

Forgive the digression: I just compared the amp in the E17 with my Arrow.  
  I used my new L7 line out dock.  Optical connection came from my MacBook Pro.
   
  The E17 amp seems a bit more literal and detailed.  Bass is better defined and treble is a tad more extended.  It is flat or a bit v-shaped, with no added euphony in the midrange.  For those who value solid-state clarity (as opposed to tubes or low-feedback SS like Nelson Pass amps), the E17 amp would probably be preferred.  
   
  The Arrow 4G advantage is in the midrange, which is a bit more forward.  By midrange I mean male voice fundamental and lower harmonics, or cello.  There is not a v-shaped frequency response.  Everything is a bit smoother, but in a very realistic way.  The slide dobro, for example, in Dire Straits' "You and Your Friend" has less emphasis on the wiry buzz and transients in a way that seems more realistic and at the least more pleasant.  The E17 tries to reproduce it more accurately so to speak, possibly due to difference in the op-amp or greater feedback.  But in the process it seems to make additive errors not present on high-end systems.  
   
  The amp qualities matter most perhaps in conjunction with a specific DAC.  I compared the E17 DAC to the DAC in my iPad 3.  The comparison parallels that of the amps above -- the E17 is very detailed and extended, particularly in the bass definition, but also in treble.  I find the treble slightly annoying as if the filter used optimized flatness as opposed to minimizing ringing on square waves, for example.  
   
  I should say that the Arrow amp sound depends on gain setting.  I use the middle gain setting because HD650s occasionally need it to reach robust volume.  Also, the middle gain setting seems a bit more dynamic.  The lowest gain setting (highest negative feedback) has a similar treble annoyance to my ears and sound less present and realistic.  Treble and midrange don't integrate in a graceful and realistic way -- I become more aware that I am listening to electronics rather than to the music. 
   
  In combination, I prefer slightly the iPad plus Arrow, but the E17 DAC plus Arrow is a good best of both worlds compromise, even though the roll-off in the bass is evident often.  There is no clear winner; I think it depends on preference and on headphones used.  Mine were a slightly modified HD650.  
   
  So, for convenience, my transportable rig will continue to be the iPad DAC to the Arrow to the HD650.  At home, I prefer chaining the Mac to the E17 to the Arrow, as opposed to the E17 amp, but that is a judgment call based on preference -- a bit more detail but with acceptable realism with grace.  Headphone selection matters more.  The E17 DAC + amp is not bad at all, and quite a bit better to my ears than the E7.  
   
  PS: I am told there is a way to access digital out on an iPad (but not on an iPhone without a licensed dock or such).  I might explore that sometime.  That would allow the E17 DAC to be used in portable situations.  
   
  Does anyone know the types of DACs used in the E17 and the iPad 3?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





stoney said:


> Forgive the digression: I just compared the amp in the E17 with my Arrow.
> I used my new L7 line out dock.  Optical connection came from my MacBook Pro.
> 
> The E17 amp seems a bit more literal and detailed.  Bass is better defined and treble is a tad more extended.  It is flat or a bit v-shaped, with no added euphony in the midrange.  For those who value solid-state clarity (as opposed to tubes or low-feedback SS like Nelson Pass amps), the E17 amp would probably be preferred.
> ...


 
  E17=Wolfson WM8740
  iPad 3: Custom Cirrus Logic.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





visanj said:


> In system preferences I could see only 'Internal Speakers' as option. no other option available. I think it is not detecting E17 but I don't why it suddenly not working. Yesterday it was working fine


 
   
  Before beating your head against the wall trying to figure out why, try doing a hardware reset of the E17 by pushing the reset switch with a small paperclip or something like a SIM card ejection tool from an iPhone. The hardware reset of the E17 may solve your issue quickly. If not, have you tried the E17 on another computer via USB? What about via SPDIF (coaxial or TOSlink)? I'm hopeful that the hardware reset will correct the issue, but otherwise you may be contacting your dealer about a repair. Let's hope not!
   
  Dale


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





stoney said:


> PS: I am told there is a way to access digital out on an iPad (but not on an iPhone without a licensed dock or such).  I might explore that sometime.  That would allow the E17 DAC to be used in portable situations.


 
   
  Check out this post I made almost a year ago, showing how to connect the iPad via the Camera Connection Kit USB adapter, a powered USB hub and the E17:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/990#post_8108286
   
  To my knowledge, the same thing should be possible on the new iPad with Lightning connector by using the new Lightning to USB camera connector cable..
   
  Dale


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Quote: 





chris j said:


> BTW,  0 dB is low gain, 6 dB being a mid level and 12 dB being high gain. As you know, many headphone amps have a gain of 20 dB.
> 
> Normally, I set gain to 0 dB and adjust the volume control.


 

 Thanks for the response Chris, this is primarily what I was looking for.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Windows XP handles audio differently in that it by default will send audio bit for bit, i.e. no sample rate conversion. This actually provides the best sounding audio as your 96/24 audio files will play at that rate/bit depth and your 44.1/16 audio will play at its rate/bit depth. Some programs (like Foobar2000) allow you to lock the output to a higher sample rate/bit depth (i.e. upsampling), but this can cause all sorts of issues. On a system with well written drivers, upsampling won't hurt the audio, but leaving XP configured to automatically adjust playback rate/bit depth is preferred. XP natively only handles up to 96/24 so anything above that will either be downsampled or not play at all, depending on the player software you use. See this article on the Benchmark wiki about XP's handling of sample rate and bit depth:
> 
> http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_XP_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide


 
   
  Thanks for the help, Dale.
  I listened to my "John Hiatt: Dirty Jeans and Mudslide Hymns" album, encoded in 96 kHz.24 bits.  Surprise, surprise!
  My HP notebook outputs it in 96/24!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  E17 display shows 96/24!
   
  For some stupid reason known only to Sony, my Blu Ray player outputs it in 48/16 because it is "copy protected". Thanks Sony!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Time for a new Blu Ray Playa!  
  Quote: 





mani ath 87 said:


> Thanks for the response Chris, this is primarily what I was looking for.


 
   
  Does this mean that I'm not as stupid as my wife says I am?


----------



## Teddy Tc

Y





chris j said:


> Thanks for the help, Dale.
> I listened to my "John Hiatt: Dirty Jeans and Mudslide Hymns" album, encoded in 96 kHz.24 bits.  Surprise, surprise!
> My HP notebook outputs it in 96/24!  :wink_face:
> E17 display shows 96/24!
> ...


unfortubately you are ALWAYS exactly as stupid as your wife says you are..


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





teddy tc said:


> unfortubately you are ALWAYS exactly as stupid as your wife says you are..


 
   
  Yeah,
  That's what I figured!


----------



## Zack117

Is the battery always charging when the E17 is docked on the E09k? You see, I received this combo today and I don't want to mess up the battery, as I intend to use the devices for desktop only, meaning that the E17 will always be docked.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Is the battery always charging when the E17 is docked on the E09k? You see, I received this combo today and I don't want to mess up the battery, as I intend to use the devices for desktop only, meaning that the E17 will always be docked.


 
   
  Depends on whether the "USB Charge" setting is set to "OFF" or "ON".
  You will see this indicated on the E17 display, i.e. lightning bolt disappears when charge is off.
   
  Even if USB Charge is set to ON, you will not charge the E17 when the E09K is off.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Is the battery always charging when the E17 is docked on the E09k? You see, I received this combo today and I don't want to mess up the battery, as I intend to use the devices for desktop only, meaning that the E17 will always be docked.


 
  Is the light on the E17 blue, red or purple blend?


----------



## Zack117

Thanks for fast response!
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> Depends on whether the "USB Charge" setting is set to "OFF" or "ON".
> You will see this indicated on the E17 display, i.e. lightning bolt disappears when charge is off.
> 
> Even if USB Charge is set to ON, you will not charge the E17 when the E09K is off.


 
  I won't use the FiiO's with USB, but with S/PDIF only... for the moment anyway. Power supply for the E17 will come only from the E09k's DC source. I'm still waiting for my beyers to arrive...
  So the E17 ONLY charges if the USB Charge is set to ON, in both cases, docked and undocked to the E09k. When I turn the E09k off, the docked E17 does also. Please correct me if I am wrong.
   
  Now, how is it if USB Charge is off and the battery goes empty while it's docked. Does the E17 turn off, or does it get power from the E09k?
  What I actually want to ask: How can I use the E17 with the E09k WITHOUT making use of its battery? Maybe I should remove it? I want to conserve the battery life and just make it 1-2 times per month empty. Like said. I'll use it only at home with tie E09k.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Is the light on the E17 blue, red or purple blend?


 
  It was purple, but after I changed the USB Charge setting, I noticed that it can turned to blue.


----------



## bowei006

With USB Chg off on the E17. IT will not accept power. However because it is docked, it's power usage and battery life has been seen to be slightly longer. This is seen as because some power is being provided to handle some functions that the E17 may have otherwise needed to provide power for.
   
  When the E17 finally runs out of batteries. The settings will all reset turning USB Chg back to on and thus it will charge again.


----------



## Zack117

I see...so the "healtiest" solution for the battery would be, to let the USB Charge ON?
   
  Couldn't I just remove the battery from the E17, so it gets its power supply only from the E09k?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> I see...so the "healtiest" solution for the battery would be, to let the USB Charge ON?
> 
> Couldn't I just remove the battery from the E17, so it gets its power supply only from the E09k?


 
   
  Healthiest way:
   
   
  Quote: Me 





> *Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
> When the device is in use, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17/E07K is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually *bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries. *HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE* every month or two as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally as the E17/E07K's firmware will reset!
> 
> Li-ION batteris on general will last effectively 1000 complete charges before battery drops below about ~70% of the original storage. This is still acceptable by most consumers standards.
> ...


 
   
   
  Or....you could just let it drain out and turn it back on and let it charge that way. According to experts that isn't as good as full depletions are not as good
   
  But hey. Do you buy a car and keep it in a garage for the rest of its life? 
   
  No. You use that thing. Whatever suits your life style. If you do remember or would like to make your E07K or other device as happy as possible. Follow the general directions I made(only for li ion). I use them as it's not that hard to do but some just don't remember. And that's fine.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Before beating your head against the wall trying to figure out why, try doing a hardware reset of the E17 by pushing the reset switch with a small paperclip or something like a SIM card ejection tool from an iPhone. The hardware reset of the E17 may solve your issue quickly. If not, have you tried the E17 on another computer via USB? What about via SPDIF (coaxial or TOSlink)? I'm hopeful that the hardware reset will correct the issue, but otherwise you may be contacting your dealer about a repair. Let's hope not!
> 
> Dale


 
   
   
  I tried resetting E17 but its not working. When I open 'System Information' and look at USB settings I could see FIIO E17 detected but when I open sound preferences I could not see E17 listed
   
   
   
   
   
     
   
   
   
     
   
  I'm not sure if my E17 is faulty or my mac is faulty. I could not try with any other PC as I have only Macbook with me. I can try only tomorrow when I go to office


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I tried resetting E17 but its not working. When I open 'System Information' and look at USB settings I could see FIIO E17 detected but when I open sound preferences I could not see E17 listed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Check in Audio Midi Setup if the option is there then.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I tried resetting E17 but its not working. When I open 'System Information' and look at USB settings I could see FIIO E17 detected but when I open sound preferences I could not see E17 listed
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if my E17 is faulty or my mac is faulty. I could not try with any other PC as I have only Macbook with me. I can try only tomorrow when I go to office


 
   
  Very unusual... Macs are one of the easiest systems to get working with USB DACs like the E17. Out of curiosity, what happens when you hold down the Option/Alt key while clicking on the sound icon (speaker with sound waves coming out) in the upper right hand of the desktop (assuming standard OS layout)? Here's a pic of mine...
   
   

   
  BTW - you need to change your pics to JPG for the forum to be able to display them natively without people needing them to download the images (PNG in your case).
   
  Dale


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Check in Audio Midi Setup if the option is there then.


 
   
  Even in Audio midi setup, I could not see E17 listed. I could see only Microphone and built-in speakers as option


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Very unusual... Macs are one of the easiest systems to get working with USB DACs like the E17. Out of curiosity, what happens when you hold down the Option/Alt key while clicking on the sound icon (speaker with sound waves coming out) in the upper right hand of the desktop (assuming standard OS layout)? Here's a pic of mine...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm getting only 'Internal Speakers' as option. Even I'm wondering what happened. 2 days back it was working fine. I didn't do anything apart from the fact that I changed in Audio Midi setup fro 44 KHz to 96 KHZ for E17 device. It was working fine after that. But from yesterday its not working


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I'm getting only 'Internal Speakers' as option. Even I'm wondering what happened. 2 days back it was working fine. I didn't do anything apart from the fact that I changed in Audio Midi setup fro 44 KHz to 96 KHZ for E17 device. It was working fine after that. But from yesterday its not working


 
   
  Do you have a mini-TOSLink optical cable so you can try SPDIF connection to your E17? If you can connect via optical SPDIF to your MacBook, that will tell you if the DAC in the E17 is functional. Alas even if it does work via optical SPDIF, your  E17 may indeed have had a hardware failure that affects only the input via USB. Have you tried the AUX input on the E17? That won't tell you anything about the DAC, but it will at least verify if the amp function of the E17 is still working.
   
  Regardless, it does unfortunately sound like your E17 might have encountered a hardware failure, but until you test it on another PC or Mac, you won't know for certain. Another thing to try, although it's sort of a last ditch effort, is to disconnect your E17 from all devices and turn it on, letting the battery completely drain. Once it turns off, plug it back into your MacBook with the E17 powered off so that it does a recharge. Once it's been charging for a few hours you can turn the E17 on and see if draining the battery has corrected anything. It likely won't make a difference, but I've seen strange things with small electronics. Good luck!
   
  Dale


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Healthiest way:
> 
> Or....you could just let it drain out and turn it back on and let it charge that way. According to experts that isn't as good as full depletions are not as good
> 
> ...


 
   
  What if you are not a Panda?


----------



## dcuellar

Few questions before I pick one of these up. I would appreciate any answers to help me understand what it is I'm buying here.
   

 I'll be using an iPhone 5 and Macbook Pro. Will I be able to use the DAC and amp on both? I read somewhere that the DAC will not work with the iPhone 5 because the lightning plug is digital. Will adding a 30 pin adapter, which is said to convert back to analog, work?
 Do I even need a DAC with either of these devices? Should I just get a portable amp instead? All of my music files are ALAC, and I don't think I have anything above 16/44. Do these devices have a good enough DAC?
 I'll be using it to power a PRO700MKII and HD558 for now, but am looking at getting an HE500 and D7000 (and if I can find one) in the future. I'd like to be able to power all of these, but realistically I would probably just use the PRO700MKII as a portable can and the rest as at home or on vacation headphones. In other words, I can get the E09K for the at home or vacation headphones.


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> What if you are not a Panda?



My instructions are cross genomic. 



dcuellar said:


> Few questions before I pick one of these up. I would appreciate any answers to help me understand what it is I'm buying here.
> 
> 
> I'll be using an iPhone 5 and Macbook Pro. Will I be able to use the DAC and amp on both? I read somewhere that the DAC will not work with the iPhone 5 because the lightning plug is digital. Will adding a 30 pin adapter, which is said to convert back to analog, work?
> ...



You cant natively use the E17 as a DAC with ipods or iphones anyway. Only the iPad BUT WITH an external power source. This is not very portable so just think no. Iphone 5 can not use e17 dac. Only macbook can.

It is up to you. The dac in the macbook pro is quite good. But of course with more expensive units, some want to get "better" sound.

Look for people that have said that E17 can drive those headphones you want


----------



## GSARider

Well I tried the E17 on its own with my new HD800's (via iPod Touch) and it works great...put the gain setting to 12 and volume to around 30, with about 35 as high as my ears can take it. So a great solution for when I'm away on trips as well as bedroom listening.


----------



## dcuellar

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You cant natively use the E17 as a DAC with ipods or iphones anyway. Only the iPad BUT WITH an external power source. This is not very portable so just think no. Iphone 5 can not use e17 dac. Only macbook can.
> 
> It is up to you. The dac in the macbook pro is quite good. But of course with more expensive units, some want to get "better" sound.
> 
> Look for people that have said that E17 can drive those headphones you want


 

 Well, that's a bummer. What do you think about the iPhone's DAC? Should I look at getting a portable amp/dac that will support this or is the DAC good enough in the iPhone 5?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dcuellar said:


> Well, that's a bummer. What do you think about the iPhone's DAC? Should I look at getting a portable amp/dac that will support this or is the DAC good enough in the iPhone 5?


 
  Depends on how much of an audiophile you are. The DAC's of Apple devices are quite nice. But some want to take it a step further.


----------



## dcuellar

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Depends on how much of an audiophile you are. The DAC's of Apple devices are quite nice. But some want to take it a step further.


 

 If I can I'd like to have the best sound possible. I realize I don't have the best headphones yet, but if I can get an all-purpose amp/dac I'll be future-proofed.
   
  Maybe the upcoming E19 will work with idevices. Is there any info on this yet?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dcuellar said:


> If I can I'd like to have the best sound possible. I realize I don't have the best headphones yet, but if I can get an all-purpose amp/dac I'll be future-proofed.
> 
> Maybe the upcoming E19 will work with idevices. Is there any info on this yet?


 
  No. 
   
  The only devices that seem likely to come out by April is the X3 and E18. Key word likely.


----------



## dcuellar

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> No.
> 
> The only devices that seem likely to come out by April is the X3 and E18. Key word likely.


 

 Ok. Thanks.


----------



## J Bones

Quote: 





dcuellar said:


> If I can I'd like to have the best sound possible. I realize I don't have the best headphones yet, but if I can get an all-purpose amp/dac I'll be future-proofed.
> 
> Maybe the upcoming E19 will work with idevices. Is there any info on this yet?


 
   
  Hmmm...maybe the use of idevices could be the source of the problem


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





j bones said:


> Hmmm...maybe the use of idevices could be the source of the problem


 
  Or the problem could be that everybody is to caught up on trying to bypass the DAC in the idevices. As far as I know, most, if not all of the apple iDevices have good DAC's already in them and will work well with just a simple headphone amp and an LOD. The iPhone 4/4s and the iPads all have good DAC's in them for sure, I've never really looked to much into the nano's, touches or classics, but i'm assuming they are just as good as well. 
   
  I can safely say that using my iPhone 4 with an LOD to my E17 sounds just as good as my laptop using usb out to the E17.


----------



## dcuellar

Quote: 





j bones said:


> Hmmm...maybe the use of idevices could be the source of the problem


 





 What was that? jk
   
  I love my iPhone.
   
   
  Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Or the problem could be that everybody is to caught up on trying to bypass the DAC in the idevices. As far as I know, most, if not all of the apple iDevices have good DAC's already in them and will work well with just a simple headphone amp and an LOD. The iPhone 4/4s and the iPads all have good DAC's in them for sure, I've never really looked to much into the nano's, touches or classics, but i'm assuming they are just as good as well.
> 
> I can safely say that using my iPhone 4 with an LOD to my E17 sounds just as good as my laptop using usb out to the E17.


 
   
  That's what I was thinking. I think I'm just gonna go ahead and get the darn E17 already and just try it for myself. Best place to buy it?


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





dcuellar said:


> What was that? jk
> 
> I love my iPhone.
> 
> ...


 
  I love my iPhone as well. I have the old 32gb Verizon iPhone 4.
   
  Do it!! The E17 is a great little amp and DAC. I got mine a few months ago from a seller on ebay for $140 shipped, not sure where the best place is to get it now.


----------



## bowei006

Authorized dealer is best place to buy. FiiO's website has the complete list.
   
  authorized dealer makes sure that you get a legit item, and if the item has any problems, that company has to help you within it's certain number of days (as opposed to ebay). And FiiO's official warranty ToS states that they will only support stuff from authorized dealers. 
   
  Buy from an authorized dealer that is in your country or near your country(for example, if in EU, any country nearest to you in it is fine) as this makes sure that if you get a faulty product, returning/exchanging and support will be quick. If all options fail. MP4nation is still availble and have free international shipping. Only problem is that the back and forth time with them may take about a month and so FiiO said they don't recommend taking that route first.
   
  FiiO's ToS stated that they will not support stuff from un authorized dealers. But their CEO, James which is Feiao here on Head-Fi. Has said that it is just business talk. FiiO gives support to anyone with a FiiO so rest assured if you have a device that wasn't purchased from one. I got a FiiO from dealextreme back when I first got my FiiO and they supported me quite well.
   
  All this info above is data that FiiO have stated as of this date today of writing. Any of it is subject to change. I am just playing back info that James and rep's from FiiO have stated in the past on company procedure and what they prefer. It is subject to change with official ToS rules that FiiO has on support and sales.


----------



## Th3 James

I am pretty damn happy with my E17, I have been using it when I go to walk my dog. It paired with my HD650s sound pretty nice for a portable audio experience. I just wish I had a lighting cable to line out, I am currently using a 30-pin to lightning adaptor coupled with the fiio 30-pin - line out.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





th3 james said:


> I am pretty damn happy with my E17, I have been using it when I go to walk my dog. It paired with my HD650s sound pretty nice for a portable audio experience. I just wish I had a lighting cable to line out, I am currently using a 30-pin to lightning adaptor coupled with the fiio 30-pin - line out.


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Do you have a mini-TOSLink optical cable so you can try SPDIF connection to your E17? If you can connect via optical SPDIF to your MacBook, that will tell you if the DAC in the E17 is functional. Alas even if it does work via optical SPDIF, your  E17 may indeed have had a hardware failure that affects only the input via USB. Have you tried the AUX input on the E17? That won't tell you anything about the DAC, but it will at least verify if the amp function of the E17 is still working.
> 
> Regardless, it does unfortunately sound like your E17 might have encountered a hardware failure, but until you test it on another PC or Mac, you won't know for certain. Another thing to try, although it's sort of a last ditch effort, is to disconnect your E17 from all devices and turn it on, letting the battery completely drain. Once it turns off, plug it back into your MacBook with the E17 powered off so that it does a recharge. Once it's been charging for a few hours you can turn the E17 on and see if draining the battery has corrected anything. It likely won't make a difference, but I've seen strange things with small electronics. Good luck!
> 
> Dale


 
   
  I tried with another Windows PC (Windows 7) but it says 'installing device driver software failed'....so its clear that the issue is with device driver software, May be PC could not load driver from E17
   
  Could anyone help me out in downloading driver software? I searched in FIIO website but couldn't find any driver
   
  Thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I tried with another Windows PC (Windows 7) but it says 'installing device driver software failed'....so its clear that the issue is with device driver software, May be PC could not load driver from E17
> 
> Could anyone help me out in downloading driver software? I searched in FIIO website but couldn't find any driver
> 
> Thanks


 
  There is no downloadable one. 
   
  The driver is USB class 1. Meaning it is self contained. Can you try on another PC? If the same problem happens, then the USB has problems most likely


----------



## UnityIsPower

dcuellar said:


> If I can I'd like to have the best sound possible. I realize I don't have the best headphones yet, but if I can get an all-purpose amp/dac I'll be future-proofed.
> 
> Maybe the upcoming E19 will work with idevices. Is there any info on this yet?







jasonb said:


> Or the problem could be that everybody is to caught up on trying to bypass the DAC in the idevices. As far as I know, most, if not all of the apple iDevices have good DAC's already in them and will work well with just a simple headphone amp and an LOD. The iPhone 4/4s and the iPads all have good DAC's in them for sure, I've never really looked to much into the nano's, touches or classics, but i'm assuming they are just as good as well.
> 
> I can safely say that using my iPhone 4 with an LOD to my E17 sounds just as good as my laptop using usb out to the E17.




From my experience/gear, I ended up only using the E17 to amp my iPhone 4 with LOD. Sound from my oldest PC got cleaned up but I'll also vouch for the experience of saying "DAC/AMP w/PC=AMP with iPhone 4". Am now looking to just buy the E12. The E17 has more EQ settings/adjustments however that might make it a better option for some. What other just amps with E17 level of EQ or better are available for around the same price? 

Edit: Nvm, found answer.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

I can't say enough positive about the battery on the E17. I just can't get the thing to run out lol, I haven't charged mine in 5+ days now, and out of those last 5 days I've spent at least 4-5 hours with it 3 of those days (the other 2 days has also had use, but less). That should have been enough to drain the battery, but it's STILL sitting at 50%. I'm beginning to wonder if the battery is ever going to run out


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mani ath 87 said:


> I can't say enough positive about the battery on the E17. I just can't get the thing to run out lol, I haven't charged mine in 5+ days now, and out of those last 5 days I've spent at least 4-5 hours with it. That should have been enough to drain the battery, but it's STILL sitting at 50%. I'm beginning to wonder if the battery is ever going to run out


 
  Is that so? I'm beginning to feel that that battery may have a problem.
   
  As part of my near patented Panda procedures on battery operation. I recommend playing this song until end to test that battery. Listening is recommended but not required, singing along is.




   
  This should get the battery down.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

I don't think having it run 4 hours per day for a week without needing a charge would be classified as a "problem". I'd probably use something more like "miracle" lol.


----------



## UnityIsPower

mani ath 87 said:


> I can't say enough positive about the battery on the E17. I just can't get the thing to run out lol, I haven't charged mine in 5+ days now, and out of those last 5 days I've spent at least 4-5 hours with it 3 of those days (the other 2 days has also had use, but less). That should have been enough to drain the battery, but it's STILL sitting at 50%. I'm beginning to wonder if the battery is ever going to run out




It runs on enjoyment. As long as u keep enjoying it, the batt will keep moving electrons. LOL.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mani ath 87 said:


> I don't think having it run 4 hours per day for a week without needing a charge would be classified as a "problem". I'd probably use something more like "miracle" lol.


 
  No, it's a serious problem. Please follow instructions right away or I can not guarantee the battery life of your unit. As we have now wasted precious time, you need to replay that video twice to heal your battery.


----------



## Achmedisdead

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Or the problem could be that everybody is to caught up on trying to bypass the DAC in the idevices. As far as I know, most, if not all of the apple iDevices have good DAC's already in them and will work well with just a simple headphone amp and an LOD.


----------



## UnityIsPower

bowei006 said:


> No, it's a serious problem. Please follow instructions right away or I can not guarantee the battery life of your unit. As we have now wasted precious time, you need to replay that video twice to heal your battery.




This is an emergence! 
( /O_O)/ T^^^T = _|__|_
Stat, run and get the defebulators!
....(~*_*)~ € €
We shall put a stop to this batteries treachery!
 [+_-] €~(^_^€~) 
*I will cast out this witchery and endow u with physics my little electron mover.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> There is no downloadable one.
> 
> The driver is USB class 1. Meaning it is self contained. Can you try on another PC? If the same problem happens, then the USB has problems most likely


 
   
  I tried with another Windows 7 PC as well but facing the same problem. But Aux is working fine. Looks like USB in E17 is gone 
   
  Its really a nightmare for me to send E17 to mp4nation for replacement. I'm from India. It would be great if the issue gets resolved by doing some workaround
   
  Any other ideas please?
   
  I was very eager for FIIO X3 but now slowly my mind is changing
   
  @feaio, could you please help me to resolve this issue?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I tried with another Windows 7 PC as well but facing the same problem. But Aux is working fine. Looks like USB in E17 is gone
> 
> Its really a nightmare for me to send E17 to mp4nation for replacement. I'm from India. It would be great if the issue gets resolved by doing some workaround
> 
> ...


 
  It does seem like USB has a problem.
   
  It was recommended to buy from your nation's local authorized dealer or one near it.
   
  For you.
  http://www.pristinenote.com/
  http://fiio.net/where/index.aspx
   
  Is an authorized dealer and carried the E17 at the right price.
   
  It should have been bought there so that a problem like this could have been resolved easily
   
  As it's a device issue, you need to contact either FiiO or MP4nation. Is your E17 new? If it is within MP4Nation's return/exchange date then I suggest that. If it is not, you may need to contact FiiO on if they wish for you to deal with FiiO or MP4nation. FiiO has sometimes used the local dealer to help out with problems, but as this is a device issue, I'm not sure what could be done.
   
  You need to contact FiiO's support email. 
  http://fiio.net/support/contact.aspx


----------



## Th3 James

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"


 
  My wallet has bled for audio in the past. The sound totally justifies the cash for me. With the amount of time I spend listening to music it would be a crime to go through life listening to 128kbps mp3s on Monster Dre Beats.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





th3 james said:


> My wallet has bled for audio in the past. The sound totally justifies the cash for me. With the amount of time I spend listening to music it would be a crime to go through life listening to 128kbps mp3s on Monster Dre Beats.


 
  Monster split with the Beats by Dr. Dre brand about a year ago.
   
  They will keep working together for a year since the announcement in terms of Monster using their facilities to make the stuff. That time is almost up. Beats by Dr. Dre is owned 51% by HTC. HTC has connections and thus not having Monster's connections wouldn't  mean anything. Dre and Bovine (the starters) cashed in their stock of Beats after the acquisition by HTC but later re bought most of it back. And was reported to have made a sizable profit from it.
   
  Despite the rep Bovine and Dre have received. Monster and Beats standard is audiophile. Analog cables that cost a fortune due to "awesome" stuff inside it and headphones that cost a lot without care for who buys it as it was the creators own vision. They may not be popular around here but Monster's cables and Beats headphones are a mainstream realization of the audiophile realm. Where a headphone or cable with stuff in it will be sold at high prices as that's what the idea of the creator was. And whether it was sold or not doesn't matter.
   
  I'm procrastinating on studying. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to procrastinate even a little bit more.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I tried with another Windows 7 PC as well but facing the same problem. But Aux is working fine. Looks like USB in E17 is gone
> 
> Its really a nightmare for me to send E17 to mp4nation for replacement. I'm from India. It would be great if the issue gets resolved by doing some workaround
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry for the late reply , now it is impossible to me to track all the thread because I already spent so many time in head-fi and other forum. 
   
  All the possibility includes
   
  1, E17 itself. you got a defective E17. means you have to contact mp4nation to get warranty service. I heard they will open shops in India in the coming soon, you can contact them.
   
  2, The cable. you can try another USB to mini USB cable.
   
  3, The OS of the PC, I will suggest you try another PC/Laptop , and don't forget to change the input to USB.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It does seem like USB has a problem.
> 
> It was recommended to buy from your nation's local authorized dealer or one near it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is it possible to upgrade the firmware in E17? I am thinking if upgrading firmware may resolve this issue


----------



## Th3 James

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Monster split with the Beats by Dr. Dre brand about a year ago.
> 
> They will keep working together for a year since the announcement in terms of Monster using their facilities to make the stuff. That time is almost up. Beats by Dr. Dre is owned 51% by HTC. HTC has connections and thus not having Monster's connections wouldn't  mean anything. Dre and Bovine (the starters) cashed in their stock of Beats after the acquisition by HTC but later re bought most of it back. And was reported to have made a sizable profit from it.
> 
> ...


 
  I'm at work using my HD650s with my Fiio E17. Working nights gives me quite a bit of time to browse and listen to music as I do my work. I didn't think I would like the open design of the HD650s but it allows me to listen to music at a decent volume and still hear my phone ring at work. 
   
  I didn't know about HTC buying the Dre beats headphone brand. I still think Beats sound like **** and muddy the sound of the original song.


----------



## bowei006

visanj said:


> Is it possible to upgrade the firmware in E17? I am thinking if upgrading firmware may resolve this issue


There is an ASIO firmware update out. I dont think it will fix this issue

When did you get the E17


----------



## visanj

bowei006 said:


> There is an ASIO firmware update out. I dont think it will fix this issue
> 
> 
> i got it last year in may
> ...


----------



## yomomma1

Got battery issues myself. Just does not last long at all. Seems to lose charge quickly when not in use?

I'll look further into it when I find my enthusiasm!


----------



## bowei006

You forgot to write something? 


yomomma1 said:


> Got battery issues myself. Just does not last long at all. Seems to lose charge quickly when not in use?
> 
> I'll look further into it when I find my enthusiasm!



Did you leave it in storage or leave it charging 24/7 or something?


----------



## yomomma1

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You forgot to write something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Leave it storage?
   
  No I use it every other day, I only charge via macbook so would never leave that out let alone on 24 (let alone 7 
   
  I honestly think (and I'm sure some will agree) that there is an issue with battery. I have not had it long (Xmas gift) though the Mrs has lost receipt blah blah blah so there's no chance of a return! It will last a fair few hrs but nothing compared to the E7 I had a few years back. Thanks for the help


----------



## TrollDragon

Ok!
   
  Now that I have the E09K sitting on the desk (Very Nice)... I need to know a few things, changing the volume on the E17 will change the output of the E09K. What is the recommended volume setting for the E17 when docked?
   
  Also what is the recommended Gain setting as well?
   
  All using USB input.
   
  Or what settings do people use for driving higher impedance cans (DT880 Pro for example)
   
  Thanks!


----------



## GSARider

I have the bypass switch on the E17 slid over, so the E09K controls volume - this bypasses the E17's volume. To drive my HD800's I have the gain on - on the E09K. And I use an Optical cable to my MacBook Pro.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> I have the bypass switch on the E17 slid over, so the E09K controls volume - this bypasses the E17's volume. To drive my HD800's I have the gain on - on the E09K. *And I use an Optical cable to my MacBook Pro.*


 
   
  With that setup (E17 docked in the E09) does the optical still go into the top of the E17, or does the base have an input?
   
  Thanks much.


----------



## GSARider

Into the E17.


----------



## TrollDragon

gsarider said:


> I have the bypass switch on the E17 slid over, so the E09K controls volume - this bypasses the E17's volume. To drive my HD800's I have the gain on - on the E09K. And I use an Optical cable to my MacBook Pro.



Thanks GSARider, I forgot all about the bypass on the side... 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Into the E17.


 
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## yakapo

I just received my fiio e17 last night.  Compared to the fiio e10 the soundstage seems smaller.  Or is it just me?
   
  Regardless, it's really nice for what it costs.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Ok!
> 
> Now that I have the E09K sitting on the desk (Very Nice)... I need to know a few things, changing the volume on the E17 will change the output of the E09K. What is the recommended volume setting for the E17 when docked?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I always leave the gain on low.
  The volume control has enough range for any headphone I own.
  I even leave gain on low for my 600 Ohm DT880s.  I don't think I have ever had volume past 12 o'clock.


----------



## AstralStorm

I thought to chime in. If you have too low loudness, check the Bypass switch. It didn't seem to disable gain altogether, but reduced it considerably. I had one such gotcha myself. 
Battery life of E17 was never great, even if taking care to put the screen to sleep. About 8 hours. It does not shut down the amplifier when nothing is connected.


----------



## TrollDragon

Yes indeed the E09k has some power to it, with the LO Bypass on and the gain switch on low it was driving the 880's very nicely. Ran my Tragically Hip compilation through it last night. Some fine listening for sure. The only thing is with the LO set you can't adjust Bass or Treble... But I guess that's what the EQ is for in foobar. 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Yes indeed the E09k has some power to it, with the LO Bypass on and the gain switch on low it was driving the 880's very nicely. Ran my Tragically Hip compilation through it last night. Some fine listening for sure. The only thing is with the LO set you can't adjust Bass or Treble... But I guess that's what the EQ is for in foobar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey!
  I live in Canada too!
  But I don't like the Tragically Hip.
  Does this mean I will be deported?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Maybe I should mention I do like Tim Horton's?


----------



## Th3 James

I have found the battery life to be amazing on the E17. I have it driving my HD650s at 50 volume on the E17 with default gain and adjusted treble and bass to suit my liking. It has been cold recently in my area (-15C) and I have been taking my dog for walks with the E17 in my pocket with my iPhone and my HD650s. Cold usually kills battery life and I expected the E17 to be depleted after a 2 hour walk in -15C weather driving my headphones at high volume. Battery is at 70% from the looks of the bars after a 2 hour walk in cold weather. For me that is better than anything I could have expected. Hell I was even surprised that they were able to power my HD650s. 
   
  I finally have the portable audio experience I always dreamed of.


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Hey!
> I live in Canada too!
> But I don't like the Tragically Hip.
> Does this mean I will be deported?
> ...


 
  I Lived in T Dot for 27 years!
   
  There is only a handful of Hip that is fit to listen to... 2nd & 3rd albums mostly, all the rest is Pure Dreck IMHO.
   
  Now if you were not a Rush fan we would need to evaluate your qualifications as a citizen, and suffer unto you many, many hours of Celine Dion till you confessed and repented! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Timmies is a bonus saving throw!


----------



## Th3 James

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> I Lived in T Dot for 27 years!
> 
> There is only a handful of Hip that is fit to listen to... 2nd & 3rd albums mostly, all the rest is Pure Dreck IMHO.
> 
> ...


 
  I too live in Canada. I don't like The Tragically Hip or Tim Hortons. Tim Hortons coffee tastes like complete **** and all their food is bad, I only have it because it is usually the only thing around when I am at work. I drink my coffee black so I really taste how low quality their coffee is compared to other places.
   
  I live and work very close to Toronto. I do like Rush. Celine is awful.


----------



## yomomma1

Quote: 





th3 james said:


> I have found the battery life to be amazing on the E17. I have it driving my HD650s at 50 volume on the E17 with default gain and adjusted treble and bass to suit my liking. It has been cold recently in my area (-15C) and I have been taking my dog for walks with the E17 in my pocket with my iPhone and my HD650s. Cold usually kills battery life and I expected the E17 to be depleted after a 2 hour walk in -15C weather driving my headphones at high volume. Battery is at 70% from the looks of the bars after a 2 hour walk in cold weather. For me that is better than anything I could have expected. Hell I was even surprised that they were able to power my HD650s.
> 
> I finally have the portable audio experience I always dreamed of.


 

 Great! I may have to contact Fiio direct and ask what the score is with having no receipt other than bank card statement! (good luck with that I hear you say!)


----------



## Chris J

th3 james said:


> I too live in Canada. I don't like The Tragically Hip or Tim Hortons. Tim Hortons coffee tastes like complete **** and all their food is bad, I only have it because it is usually the only thing around when I am at work. I drink my coffee black so I really taste how low quality their coffee is compared to other places.
> 
> I live and work very close to Toronto. I do like Rush. Celine is awful.




I get bonus points because my avatar is Canadian rock legends A Foot In Coldwater.

there seems to be two types of Tragically Hip fans, those who like the early stuff, and those who seem to be able to get something out of most of their releases.
Frankly, I think the music sounds good, but I can't take Gord's voice. I've seen a couple of his solo project shows.........his voice just sounds ........
Yes, I do like Rush.

I do like Timmies donuts!



trolldragon said:


> I Lived in T Dot for 27 years!
> 
> There is only a handful of Hip that is fit to listen to... 2nd & 3rd albums mostly, all the rest is Pure Dreck IMHO.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris J

th3 james said:


> I have found the battery life to be amazing on the E17. I have it driving my HD650s at 50 volume on the E17 with default gain and adjusted treble and bass to suit my liking. It has been cold recently in my area (-15C) and I have been taking my dog for walks with the E17 in my pocket with my iPhone and my HD650s. Cold usually kills battery life and I expected the E17 to be depleted after a 2 hour walk in -15C weather driving my headphones at high volume. Battery is at 70% from the looks of the bars after a 2 hour walk in cold weather. For me that is better than anything I could have expected. Hell I was even surprised that they were able to power my HD650s.
> 
> I finally have the portable audio experience I always dreamed of.




Not too surprising, the E17 even drives my 600 Ohm Beyers!

Lithium technology batteries do not lose as much capacity in cold weather as traditional technology batteries (car batteries, alkaline batteries, etc.)


----------



## J Bones

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Or the problem could be that everybody is to caught up on trying to bypass the DAC in the idevices. As far as I know, most, if not all of the apple iDevices have good DAC's already in them and will work well with just a simple headphone amp and an LOD. The iPhone 4/4s and the iPads all have good DAC's in them for sure, I've never really looked to much into the nano's, touches or classics, but i'm assuming they are just as good as well.
> 
> I can safely say that using my iPhone 4 with an LOD to my E17 sounds just as good as my laptop using usb out to the E17.


 
   
  Being the owner of an iPod touch 5th gen I'm obviously being sarcastic, but I would hope this holds true. I will be able to testify to it's validity here soon as I most likely am buying a portable amp soon instead of a portable amp/DAC combo.


----------



## jasonb

The issue with the 5th gen is the lightning connector, which has no analog line out. You probably should have went with the 4th gen instead. 
  Quote: 





j bones said:


> Being the owner of an iPod touch 5th gen I'm obviously being sarcastic, but I would hope this holds true. I will be able to testify to it's validity here soon as I most likely am buying a portable amp soon instead of a portable amp/DAC combo.


----------



## l veracity l

Hey I'm using the fiio e17 to drive the he-400's and most of the time it does a good job as far as I can tell. They say it drives them to about 85% on the he400 thread. However when I am gaming I use the headphone jack on my tv to connect to the e17s auxillary and then to the he400's. It starts clipping as soon as I get it to any descent volume level. It's still manageable, but I would really like to have it at loud volumes for fps games and as soon as it gets to anything over medium volumes it clips like no tomorrow. I tried using 12db gain and lower volume, as well as 6db with higher volume. The effect was the same, but it just happened at different number values. I tried it on my other tv and it worked fine at high volumes and it has never clipped while playing music. Is there some way to stop the clipping? My tv's volume is on max so the e17 is getting a strong signal. Would using it through a different input help?


----------



## bowei006

The input to the E17 is most likely more than it can handle. Lower TV volume and then use E17 

This will theoretically reduce some "bits" of dynamic range from 16 or 24 to a lower one as your tv isnt an old analog one. However it shouldnt be too noticeable.

If it is possible, you can check to see if your tv has coax digi out or optical out.

Keep in mind that the x360 and ps3 have opt out capabilities. 

Use the x360 hd component series so you can use optical or use your ps3. There is no diff between hdmi and hd component(5 cabled one with hd switch on) with xboxs


----------



## enderbender

My Fiio E17 can drive my HD650's and Mad Dogs very well. Just using them as pure amp though.


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> Sorry for the late reply , now it is impossible to me to track all the thread because I already spent so many time in head-fi and other forum.
> 
> All the possibility includes
> 
> ...


 
   
  I tried with many PCs but getting the same issue. I think the issue is with E17 itself. But I'm still wondering because it was working fine till last week and suddenly one day it is not getting detected. What happened in between? What was causing this issue? I don't understand
   
  The last time when it was working fine, I was fiddling with 96 KHz/24 bit in Audio MIDI setup in my MAC os for HD tracks but thats the only thing which I did. But from next day it was not working. Even I tried to change back 96 khz to 44...


----------



## UnityIsPower

visanj said:


> I tried with many PCs but getting the same issue. I think the issue is with E17 itself. But I'm still wondering because it was working fine till last week and suddenly one day it is not getting detected. What happened in between? What was causing this issue? I don't understand
> 
> The last time when it was working fine, I was fiddling with 96 KHz/24 bit in Audio MIDI setup in my MAC os for HD tracks but thats the only thing which I did. But from next day it was not working. Even I tried to change back 96 khz to 44...




"U'r holding it wrong, try one of our complimentary bumper cases."


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





unityispower said:


> "U'r holding it wrong, try one of our complimentary bumper cases."


 
   
  Sorry, I didn't understand


----------



## UnityIsPower

visanj said:


> Sorry, I didn't understand




It was meant as a joke referring to the iPhone 4 antenna problem.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-25/tech/iphone.problems.response_1_iphone-antenna-performance-reception?_s=PM:TECH


----------



## bowei006

Try 16/44.1 instead


----------



## AstralStorm

Quote: 





visanj said:


> I tried with many PCs but getting the same issue. I think the issue is with E17 itself. But I'm still wondering because it was working fine till last week and suddenly one day it is not getting detected. What happened in between? What was causing this issue? I don't understand
> 
> The last time when it was working fine, I was fiddling with 96 KHz/24 bit in Audio MIDI setup in my MAC os for HD tracks but thats the only thing which I did. But from next day it was not working. Even I tried to change back 96 khz to 44...


 
   
  Fried Tenor chip most likely, by static electricity perhaps or maybe bad soldering. These amps are modular enough to be able to take a lot of punishment, so it might mostly still work. Sounds like RMA to me.
   
  I hope FiiO switched their mail express company though, had some bad experience with it.


----------



## Shrew

Do the gain settings affect sound quality if all are at similar listening volumes?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





shrew said:


> Do the gain settings affect sound quality if all are at similar listening volumes?


 
  No. 
   
  12 gain from CLIEOS's findings had more bass response.


----------



## Shrew

bowei006 said:


> No.
> 
> 12 gain from CLIEOS's findings had more bass response.




That's interesting, but good to hear. I've been using +12dB and get pleasant sound at 20 volume.


----------



## bowei006

O





shrew said:


> That's interesting, but good to hear. I've been using +12dB and get pleasant sound at 20 volume.



Of course using a higher gain on easier to drive hp is not recommended.


----------



## Shrew

bowei006 said:


> O
> Of course using a higher gain on easier to drive hp is not recommended.




I'm using the HE-400s which are easier to drive than most planars, but harder to drive than any other headphones I've ever owned.


----------



## yawny

Anyone know Fiio's warranty off the top of their head? I bought my E17 at launch and it just started displaying the loose jack problem (left audio channel cutting out until the plug is jiggled into the right place). I use it daily for quiet quality audio on my desktop and laptop and I really can't afford to buy a new E17/headphone amp right now.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





yawny said:


> Anyone know Fiio's warranty off the top of their head? I bought my E17 at launch and it just started displaying the loose jack problem (left audio channel cutting out until the plug is jiggled into the right place). I use it daily for quiet quality audio on my desktop and laptop and I really can't afford to buy a new E17/headphone amp right now.


 
  1 year limited I believe.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





yawny said:


> Anyone know Fiio's warranty off the top of their head? I bought my E17 at launch and it just started displaying the loose jack problem (left audio channel cutting out until the plug is jiggled into the right place). I use it daily for quiet quality audio on my desktop and laptop and I really can't afford to buy a new E17/headphone amp right now.


 
   
  If you bought it at Amazon, report the problem (because Fiio's warranty support page says to do so - contact the seller). Even though _their_ deal is just 30 days, they may honor the Fiio 1 year warranty, by exchanging the unit for a new one (they did for me).
   
  Good luck. 
   
  (otherwise, contact Fiio about the 1 year warranty)


----------



## solserenade

... and read this page:
   
  http://fiio.com.cn/support/detail.aspx?ID=100000003535257


----------



## yawny

Unfortunately I bought it at MP4Nation. Technically the order was placed over a year ago, but as everyone can remember, these didn't ship until feb sometime. I'll try my luck.


----------



## bowei006

FiiO support. Go ask them.
   
  Their official policy is only 1 year but they have helped MANY many people who are out of warranty.


----------



## dsan

Question:
   
  I am using E17 with L7 line out to use as a DAC. 
   
  E17 is connected with Toslink optical, USB (Charge only), and 3.5 line out.
   
  I set E17 with OPT setting to recieve input from optical in. 
   
  But everytime I turn off and on the device it resets to USB and I have to manually reselect OPT.
   
  is there a way it holds its input setting?


----------



## bowei006

I think that 

Only volume memory is saved.

Ill check when i get home


----------



## TrollDragon

It switches to USB for convenience when docking with E9 or L7...
   
  Page 5 of the manual states that when the E17 is docked it will automatically switch to USB.
Alpen-E17 Manual


----------



## visanj

In this thread, I could see posts related to upgrading firmware for E17, (message like "in new firmware they will add some feature")
   
  But can anyone let me know how to upgrade firmware?


----------



## TrollDragon

There is no firmware, its a driver for Windows they are talking about.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## catspaw

From my expirience (4 months) E17 is definitly not enought for the HE-400, but was More than enought for my Sennheiser HD 380 Pro.
   
  I tried a ICON HDP and next to a E17 there is enought diference to justify the investment (probably even more on something like the asgard or Lyr).
   
  To Exactly explain what i felt is very dificult but lets just say that on gain 12, past the 35 volume mark, the sound starts to clearly lose in quality (its hard to notice this when you start using your gear, but you WILL figure this out later on).
   
  Its "loud" enought, just looses quality at some point.
   
  I personally will want to add a more neutral HP (senn HD600/HE-500/Beyer T1/Senn HD700, something like that), and im clear on getting a better AMP (thou this is a longer term project, first my velour pads and a new cable for the HE-400).
   
   
  The E17 is a great product for the price, but its not a praoduct anyone should be using with a 250+ $ HP in my opinion.


----------



## bigdl

Just picked up my E17 and it works great on all computers and inputs except for my stupid ASUS Netbook.
   
  The netbook is running Win 7 Pro 32 bit and i just updated to SP1.
   
  For some strange reason it shows up in the sound devices however windows gives out the error message "no audio device installed".  Anyone else have this issue?  I tried a search but no luck so far in my hunt though google.  I have a feeling it has something to do with the netbook but I am not sure what would cause the issue.
   
  I was hoping to use my netbook to play music while I am flying to Asia in 2 weeks since it fits nicely into my camera bag and its cheap so if I lose it I am not worried.


----------



## Allucid

jasonb said:


> I've never actually compared the gain settings, but I also use my E17 on 6db gain in the 25-30 range with a Q701 with a +2 bass boost.
> 
> I love this little amp.



I use 12db gain with +4 bass and +6 treble. It all comes down to audio quality. I use FLAC to ALAC converted files with dbpoweramp. It makes a huge difference.

@Fiio: I've found the adhesive buttons that go on the back of the E17 fall off easily after a month or so. What do you suggest instead of them? I've lost most of the buttons I put on.


----------



## Allucid

bigdl said:


> Just picked up my E17 and it works great on all computers and inputs except for my stupid ASUS Netbook.
> 
> The netbook is running Win 7 Pro 32 bit and i just updated to SP1.
> 
> ...



Probably a driver problem. Does it show that the Fiio audio controller is installed or working?
With me, sometimes I have to close all applications running, then plug the E17 in, then change the default sound from speakers to the E17. Then it works.


----------



## bowei006

Put them more center than near device outside.

Get replacement buttons. That works


----------



## chimmycham

So I've ordered a new pair of Sennheiser *HD598s.*
  I want an Amp/DAC primarily for the DAC part.
  Would this* Fiio E17* pair well with these phones?
  I am comparing the *Fiio E17* and the
 *Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 *.   
  Had anyone had experience with these particular phones and either of these Amp/DACs?
   
  I will be using my 2011 Macbook Pro mainly (for music), but would also like to use them for occasional PS3 gaming, and blu-ray watching.


----------



## m8o

This may be a dumb question and maybe I should have did a search before posting, but .... is it valid to charge the E17 via its USB cable plugged in to a standard Motorola Droid USB wall-wart charger -- or for that matter a standard USB iPod wall-wart charger -- w/o any risk of damage to the E17's electronics or battery?
  
  Thanx!
   
*EDIT:*  Ok, never mind.  Found many posts in this thread after searching.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





m8o said:


> This may be a dumb question and maybe I should have did a search before posting, but .... is it valid to charge the E17 via its USB cable plugged in to a standard Motorola Droid USB wall-wart charger -- or for that matter a standard USB iPod wall-wart charger -- w/o any risk of damage to the E17's electronics or battery?
> 
> Thanx!


 
  There is always a risk of anything happening.
   
  But no, it is safe. FiiO recommends an authentic Apple wall wart charger or any other authentic companies. 
   
   
  Or for more info
   
   
*Battery usage and procedure*


Spoiler: Correct%20Panda%20Battery%20Procedure%3A



 
*Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
  When the device is in use, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17/E07K is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually *bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries. *HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE* every month or two as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally as the E17/E07K's firmware will reset!
   
  Li-ION batteris on general will last effectively 1000 complete charges before battery drops below about ~70% of the original storage. This is still acceptable by most consumers standards.
   
  20 hours full battery life * 1000 effective uses =20,000 hours / 24 hours a day = 833 days theoretically before the E07K under theoretical conditions will decrease to 70% of its original storage life and this is with a full depletion and then charge cycle. And that is 24 hour usage as well.
   
  FiiO currently reports that they will send replacement parts for a very low price. The battery is not that hard to user replace(but not under warranty). 
   
  Partial charges for Li-ION's are better but of course constantly doing partial ones has also been reported to have an effect on the device as well which is why I recommend to charge before all power is gone and to charge till full.
   
  The last point to make is that you can't use a device if you keep on babying it. Using a device and enjoying it is part of that batteries intent and life cycle. Honeslty, ANYTHING you do to it will have an effect on battery life. The majority of the time, it is a minute effect to something like an audio device. (This advice does not hold for Power Wheels, those buggers need proper battery handling). Enjoy the device, theoretically it will hold up well for many years.
   
   
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_performance_as_a_function_of_cycling
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
   
  Disclaimer: I am not an expert on batteries. I am self taught. Please correct me if something is wrong. But use sources and not just something your papa or person told you to always do.


----------



## m8o

Thank you Pandaman.


----------



## bigdl

allucid said:


> Probably a driver problem. Does it show that the Fiio audio controller is installed or working?
> With me, sometimes I have to close all applications running, then plug the E17 in, then change the default sound from speakers to the E17. Then it works.




It shows up under sound devices in the device manager. It shows up in the playback devices. I can set it as a default devices, but there is only two tabs in the properties window. The main window and the levels tab which is empty. I also uninstalled the driver and let windows reinstall it and shows the same driver version as my other win 7 computers.


----------



## DenonBeaver

I've owned the Fiio E17 for aprox. 5 months. Running 100% of the time through USB.
  On my Denon 5000's i've found it delivers very well. Myself and others have compared it against MUCH more expensive amp/dac combos and the FIIO can hold it's own. It's not as bright as say a Yulong or Schiit but to me provides a more balanced sound. The built in EQ is great, I know this is sometimes looked down upon in the audiophile arena but a few small tweaks can really allow you to customize the sound to your specific liking, without degrading the overall sound quality.
  In terms of a portable amp/dac this thing kicks ass, compared against the headroom bithead and it blew it away.
  Obviously harder to drive headphones are where the FIIO E17 starts to struggle, but my denon's love this little guy!


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Does E17 sound better than E09K+E17 for Q701? What about for lower impedance headphones?


----------



## Chris J

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Does E17 sound better than E09K+E17 for Q701? What about for lower impedance headphones?





My personal preference is for E17 + E09K + Q701.

But the E17 do a good job of driving my ATH-ESW10 Jpn and the Q701.


----------



## solserenade

denonbeaver said:


> I've owned the Fiio E17 for aprox. 5 months. Running 100% of the time through USB.
> On my Denon 5000's i've found it delivers very well. Myself and others have compared it against MUCH more expensive amp/dac combos and the FIIO can hold it's own. It's not as bright as say a Yulong or Schiit but to me provides a more balanced sound. The built in EQ is great, I know this is sometimes looked down upon in the audiophile arena but a few small tweaks can really allow you to customize the sound to your specific liking, without degrading the overall sound quality.
> In terms of a portable amp/dac this thing kicks ass, compared against the headroom bithead and it blew it away.
> Obviously harder to drive headphones are where the FIIO E17 starts to struggle, but my denon's love this little guy!




Nice review. I agree - great lil' amp.


----------



## billiek

Excuse me if this has been answered earlier - I've tried looking for answers but seem to be finding different ones.
   
  Which cable should be used to connect a HTC One X (or Samsung S3 or other android phone with micro usb..) to the e17? Is there a short male micro - male mini USB OTG that works?
   
  Appreciate any help.
   
  Cheers,
   
  billiek


----------



## Ashade

Quote: 





billiek said:


> Excuse me if this has been answered earlier - I've tried looking for answers but seem to be finding different ones.
> 
> Which cable should be used to connect a HTC One X (or Samsung S3 or other android phone with micro usb..) to the e17? Is there a short male micro - male mini USB OTG that works?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I bought this one, still waiting for it though. 
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270803395745?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## billiek

Quote: 





ashade said:


> I bought this one, still waiting for it though.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/270803395745?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


 
  All right, please get back when you've tried it. Eagerly awaiting your response.


----------



## catspaw

Anyone knows how to use the Fiio E17 as a Dac only?
  I have the Schiit asgard as an amp and the HE-400.


----------



## billiek

Quote: 





catspaw said:


> Anyone knows how to use the Fiio E17 as a Dac only?
> I have the Schiit asgard as an amp and the HE-400.


 
   
  Yes, if I've understood it correctly you use the L7 dock for this.
   
  http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000035228125&MenuID=105026009


----------



## bowei006

Yes l7 is what you want

L7 jack is a 3.5mm.

I dont know what input asgard is but if its input is rca. You need a male 3.5mm to rca cable.


----------



## billiek

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes l7 is what you want
> 
> L7 jack is a 3.5mm.
> 
> I dont know what input asgard is but if its input is rca. You need a male 3.5mm to rca cable.


 
   
  Bowei - do you know if a male micro to male mini will work between an USB audio compatible Android and the E17?


----------



## chimmycham

For Sennheiser *HD598s*
   
  Fiio *E17*
  or
  iBasso *D7*?
   
  So far the consensus is *E17*


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





billiek said:


> Bowei - do you know if a male micro to male mini will work between an USB audio compatible Android and the E17?


 
  Sorry, I am not an expert at Android audio.


----------



## chimmycham

The iBasso D7 boasts its ability to decode 'bit for bit'.
   
  Does the E17 do this?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chimmycham said:


> The iBasso D7 boasts its ability to decode 'bit for bit'.
> 
> Does the E17 do this?


 
  Asynch-USB?
   
  No.
  E17 does not support USB.
   
  It is mainly convenient to match up timings and so that when you start or stop a song it would 'match' up more. Is what I generally see with that feature.
   
  I don't see it as a buy or not feature.
   
  It's like using WASAPI or ASIO and FLAC. It is a guaranter of quality. Except that for A synch USB. It's more of an audio start and end type of guarantor from what I see.
   
  Asynch USB makes it so that the computer AND and the device both have to receive confirmations before the device or computer sends the next one. 
   
  To me, it is kinda like 1000MHz polling rate in computer mechanical keyboards.


----------



## Stoney

Odds and ends: 
   
  The L7 dock works fine with my E17 even though it is not labeled on the website as for the E17.  My question prompted him to make the edit at some point. 
   
  The L7 doesn't fit completely part-against-part into my E17.  The connector bottoms out before the two enclosures can touch.  Anyone else have that? So, I used two clear stick-on feet the right thickness to stabilize it from wiggling. 
   
  This 6" cable on Amazon is male micro USB to male mini USB.  Perhaps of use to the questioner?  
   
  http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-6-Inch-Micro-Adapter-UUSBMUSBMF6/dp/B008635BA2/ref=wl_mb_hu_m_5_dp
   
  And this 3.5' cables has the PC USB connector at one end, and both mini and micro males at the other.  Each carries data, but only one each can be used with the PC at once.  I've charged on both but the data function is lost when connected as such. 
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Dual-Micro-Mini-Splitter-Cable/dp/B003Y569K8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1CW9F6KKCBHTR&coliid=I3SPKCNVX7YOA8


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





billiek said:


> Which cable should be used to connect a HTC One X (or Samsung S3 or other android phone with micro usb..) to the e17? Is there a short male micro - male mini USB OTG that works?


 
   
  smartphone >> USB OTG cable adapter + USB cable provided by FiiO >> FiiO E17
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1155#post_8979038


----------



## kcazbarach

I'm a noob at the headphone impedance.items, would this be able to drive the new ath ad900x?
   
  I'm looking into buying them with my tax refund (if it's enough)


----------



## Shrew

My E17's headphone jack just died, and I've only had it for 1.5 months. What can I do? Got from Amazon, so I guess return although it's past 30 days?


----------



## HiFan

Quote: 





shrew said:


> My E17's headphone jack just died, and I've only had it for 1.5 months. What can I do? Got from Amazon, so I guess return although it's past 30 days?


 
   You may try contacting FiiO directly. I believe their custom services are good.
   
  It will be great if they continue to improve their products. E07K is a good step up from E07.


----------



## Ashade

Quote: 





stoney said:


> ...
> 
> This 6" cable on Amazon is male micro USB to male mini USB.  Perhaps of use to the questioner?
> 
> ...


 
   
     This cable is male to female as it states in the title:
   
   
[size=1.7em] StarTech.com 6-Inch Micro USB to Mini USB Adapter Cable *M/F* (UUSBMUSBMF6).[/size]   
    It wouldn´t work. I was about to buy it, but that is why I bought that one in ebay. I couldn´t find anyone in amazon...


----------



## Allucid

Fiio, I love your product. I was typing for an assignment, and my E17 dropped twice. Sadly to say, it dented...




...My floor.

 No marks on my E17. It does leave silver scratches on the side, but bah, it's a solid product. So solid, that If you use DAC and something is wrong, it's probably your computer. I just plugged it into my main USB port, and the sound is amazing. It never ceases to amaze me.

Very solid product, I would recommend getting it to anyone that asked.

Thank you, Fiio.


----------



## Allucid

hifan said:


> shrew said:
> 
> 
> > My E17's headphone jack just died, and I've only had it for 1.5 months. What can I do? Got from Amazon, so I guess return although it's past 30 days?
> ...



My music player to amp jack died within a week. I had another one on hand though. :3


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





shrew said:


> My E17's headphone jack just died, and I've only had it for 1.5 months. What can I do? Got from Amazon, so I guess return although it's past 30 days?


 
   
  Please contact the dealer who sold you the E17 , or contact us ( market@fiio.com.cn ) if the dealer refuse to help you.
   
  Sorry for the trouble and we will keep improve the quality control and use the best component as we can. but so far the defective rate is quite low and we will try to control it down to <0.5% in 2013.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





allucid said:


> My music player to amp jack died within a week. I had another one on hand though. :3


 
   
  headphone jack, bottom, switcher, potentiometer ( volume control component ) , and other parts which include mechanical structure is hard to control to zero defective rate. but we will try to use the best 
   
  parts from some very high quality supplier like ALPS in Japan. and for headphone jack, we already changed to an new one , maybe I should write something to introduce how we try to improve the quality
   
  in design, manufacture and test.


----------



## Shrew

jamesfiio said:


> Please contact the dealer who sold you the E17 , or contact us ( market@fiio.com.cn ) if the dealer refuse to help you.
> 
> Sorry for the trouble and we will keep improve the quality control and use the best component as we can. but so far the defective rate is quite low and we will try to control it down to <0.5% in 2013.




Thank you for the reply. I love your product and was devastated when the left channel no longer worked. Now I'm gonna have to deal with ****ty onboard audio until I can get the E17 replaced.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kcazbarach said:


> I'm a noob at the headphone impedance.items, would this be able to drive the new ath ad900x?
> 
> I'm looking into buying them with my tax refund (if it's enough)


 
  it is best to get personal opinions
   
  The sensitivity and impedance of the headphone is very low though. 
  Quote: 





shrew said:


> My E17's headphone jack just died, and I've only had it for 1.5 months. What can I do? Got from Amazon, so I guess return although it's past 30 days?


 
  Try to contact your dealer and if all fails, go through FiiO support
   
  it is recommend you deal locally first. As shiping from Asia is pain
  Quote: 





allucid said:


> Fiio, I love your product. I was typing for an assignment, and my E17 dropped twice. Sadly to say, it dented...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is the first image of the entire thread. And it was one I made a long time ago. Relevant


----------



## J Bones

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Does E17 sound better than E09K+E17 for Q701? What about for lower impedance headphones?


 
   
  Many claim the combo of the two of them together using the E17 as DAC solely will sound better than the E17 alone, but this would most likely be true with higher impedance headphones. I have tried the E17 for a little on my Q's and it sounded just the way I would want it to, driven just fine. But as always, I would just buy the E09K from somewhere with a great return policy and buy it for yourself to see.


----------



## Allucid

bowei006 said:


> kcazbarach said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a noob at the headphone impedance.items, would this be able to drive the new ath ad900x?
> ...




My old combo. These LP2s broke after a chair rocked, pushed me over and I fell on them.


----------



## Allucid

jamesfiio said:


> allucid said:
> 
> 
> > My music player to amp jack died within a week. I had another one on hand though. :3
> ...



I meant the AUX cable, not the actual jack, sorry.
The AUX cable supplied in the box died within a week when I put it in my pocket.


----------



## catspaw

Well, for the Price, Fiio E17 is a great product. Ive had it for about 3 months now and i use it as a DAC only for my HE-400 with the asgard shiit as amplifier. 
  Mostly, the Fiio APM is quite Neutral, while the asgard suits the HE-400 better from my perspective.
  On a side note, the Fiio E17 has some of the best features ive seen.
  Bass and treble equalizer is great, battery time is very decent, and the DAC has an above averege quality.
  This costed me about 200$ (In poland prices tend to go up on everything), and i would get it again probably if i had to choose just as a portable amp that i can carry in my pocket.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





allucid said:


> I meant the AUX cable, not the actual jack, sorry.
> The AUX cable supplied in the box died within a week when I put it in my pocket.


 
   
  Sorry for that, maybe you can ask the dealer send a new one to you . it is too expensive to us to ship you a new one.


----------



## bowei006

A medium length interconnect cable is cheap on ebay

One inch short ones arent


----------



## jake120

Does USB charge impact sound quality on the E17 (I have one btw) or is that just placebo?


----------



## TrollDragon

jake120 said:


> Does USB charge impact sound quality on the E17 (I have one btw) or is that just placebo?




Depends if you have a $250 USB cable or not... There is a whole thread here for people who can hear differences in USB cables. 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Noone025

I bought an E6 whilst buying a set of cans from MP4nation, not bad for loose change.
   
  Bought a E10 to power my HM3's. Nice toy.
   
  Bought a E17 as I wanted a good DAC / amp for home and work. Great bit of kit (for the price, but as if thats ever not relevant).
   
  recommended, liked, enjoyed.


----------



## talisman42

I have an issue with my Fiio e17... Since I do have it on often during the day (and night) it appears that the characters on the lcd screen has burned it? So if I scroll, the burned in text overlaps the other menu options as I scroll through them. Is this is known issue? Can fiio send me a fixed one? Thanks


----------



## jake120

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Depends if you have a $250 USB cable or not... There is a whole thread here for people who can hear differences in USB cables.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 sigh no i dont have that,
   
  i would investigate but i have finger cramp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




\
   
   
  Quote: 





talisman42 said:


> I have an issue with my Fiio e17... Since I do have it on often during the day (and night) it appears that the characters on the lcd screen has burned it? So if I scroll, the burned in text overlaps the other menu options as I scroll through them. Is this is known issue? Can fiio send me a fixed one? Thanks


 
   
  While LCD burn ins usally are not a device problem per se,
  burn-in of screen is usually a technical issue with how LCD works itself but i recommend you contact FiiO anyway and see how it goes.
   
   
  edit: added talismans's quote since i was passing through.


----------



## Allucid

I left my LCD on. It didn't burn. I was still pretty unhappy I left it on though. 

firstworldproblems.png


----------



## bowei006

talisman42 said:


> I have an issue with my Fiio e17... Since I do have it on often during the day (and night) it appears that the characters on the lcd screen has burned it? So if I scroll, the burned in text overlaps the other menu options as I scroll through them. Is this is known issue? Can fiio send me a fixed one? Thanks




There is a screen time out option in seconds you have access to as well as an lock switch.

The only way it could have burned in from what i see is
1:device is broken or easily suceptiple to screen burn in do to rare chance
2: fiddling with the volume (with screen time out options enabled) so that it rarely turned off screen
3:you disabled screen time out.

The E17 comes with features to combat this as it was a problem with e7


The E17/E7/E07K use OLED matrixes. Not lcd


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> There is a screen time out option in seconds you have access to.


 
   
  Where is that feature?  Thanks.


----------



## bowei006

solserenade said:


> Where is that feature?  Thanks.



 
 http://youtu.be/axAewk-qFGw?t=8m47s


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> http://youtu.be/axAewk-qFGw?t=8m47s


 
   
  Are you referring to the Sleep feature?  If not ... you lost me.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Are you referring to the Sleep feature?  If not ... you lost me.


 
  Sorry, I was mistaken, only the E07K andes has the Display timer, E17 does not.


----------



## solserenade

Ah, I see. Got it.


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





> This cable is male to female as it states in the title:
> 
> [size=1.7em] StarTech.com 6-Inch Micro USB to Mini USB Adapter Cable *M/F* (UUSBMUSBMF6).[/size]


 
   
  I was going from the picture, which I suspect is correct.  But you are right to raise the issue given the description is contradictory.


----------



## Prowler

I bought an E17 about a week ago and I immediately noticed a strong fuel/petroleum like smell when I opened the box. I saw some posts in the E12 thread mentioning this but so far nothing about E17s with an odor. In order of worst to least affected:
  silica gel pack (of course I tossed it out immediately)
  the cloth/velvet bag (doubt I'll use this anyway)
  silicone bands
  rubber feet
   
  I'm glad that these things are slowly airing out, but it is taking time. The 3.5mm cable and the two adapters had a negligible amount of smell if any at all.
   
  The E17 itself is working great (no odor, but of course it has a real nice metal body, so I wouldn't expect it to absorb anything).
   
  One thing I have noticed is often the red LED does not turn off even after the unit has been charging for hours (and the battery still had 50-75% of its life remaining when I start to charge it, so I don't think it should take hours to charge). I thought the red LED should turn off once the unit has charged completely.


----------



## adani

Does E17's line out (with L7 dock) differ in SQ from line out of E10? Them seem to be using the same dac chips...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





adani said:


> Does E17's line out (with L7 dock) differ in SQ from line out of E10? Them seem to be using the same dac chips...


 
  It may be a minor difference based on chips in the signal path, and implementations and that different receiver chips ( Tenor S/PDIF on E17) are used. I wouldn't expect it to be night and day.


----------



## bareyb

Can anyone tell me if the Tone Controls on the E17 are available when it's docked into the E9k Desktop Amp? In other words can the E17 be used as the "Preamp" in that scenario? I'd like a little more power, but I don't want to give up the Bass and Treble controls on the E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> Can anyone tell me if the Tone Controls on the E17 are available when it's docked into the E9k Desktop Amp? In other words can the E17 be used as the "Preamp" in that scenario? I'd like a little more power, but I don't want to give up the Bass and Treble controls on the E17.


 
  Yes, there are two options. You can keep EQ and Volume control or not keep it. This is done with the LO bypass switch on the side.


----------



## bareyb

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes, there are two options. You can keep EQ and Volume control or not keep it. This is done with the LO bypass switch on the side.


 
  Finally!!! I've asked that question all over this place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Any thoughts on what the E9k adds to the sonic signature as compared to the E17 alone? I have HE400 headphones that sound pretty darn good with the E17 alone, but I'm considering the E9k to add a little more headroom. I tend to listen LOUD most of the time. 
   
  Also. Assume you dock the E17 and then plug the source (iPod) into the back of the E9k? Is that correct?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> Finally!!! I've asked that question all over this place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Headfonia or Headfonics has reviews with the E09K.
   
  I did not review E09K. And I no longer have E17. Sorry.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





bareyb said:


> Finally!!! I've asked that question all over this place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, there are stereo RCA inputs on the back of the EO9K. There is also USB input, same place.
   
  When you use optical > E17/E09K the optical plugs into the top of the (docked) E17.
   
  Regarding the sound quality of E17 vs. E17>EO9K ..... (I began a reply to your PM but did not finish yet)  I have had the E09K for about a week - so I don't have a lot to say, other than this:   The short trial I did give it, plugged LCD2 into the front of the E09K<E17, the sound was good .. a lot of power (even on low gain setting), has a nice big smooth knob.
   
  I heard nothing objectionable.* Which is to say, maybe, that it sounded like a higher powered E17. Remember it's been only a short session, but so far I'm really pleased with it. I find the E09K only enhances the E17 - I don't sense any added character to the sound.  
   
  *that's kinda my way of saying simply "it sounds great", i.e. 'transparent', 'accurate', 'I hear the Music!'.
   
  My plan for the E09K is not so much to have another 1/4" jack (amp) to listen through, but more for the features it offers as an "inline" processor ... to EQ a recording, use the DAC for music on the computer, run the pre-out to powered monitors, run the other Out to another tube amp, etc., etc.
   
  I may even get another one for the other room!
   
  Another handy feature I'll mention, applies to both E17 and the E17/09K combo: I use them as a sort of "tethered remote" ... for instance, the "bedside amp" while close enough for the 'phones cable, is too far to reach without crawling out of bed. 
   
  With the Fiio combo on a nightstand (where it fits nicely), the line-outs running to the tube amp, I can adjust volume, tone, sleep timer, etc. right at the bedside. I did the same thing when I had the E17 alone.
   
  Similarly, in the other listening room, my chair is not within arms-length of the component rack -- but I can place the Fiio combo near me, for easy adjustments.


----------



## solserenade

double post


----------



## bareyb

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Yes, there are stereo RCA inputs on the back of the EO9K. There is also USB input, same place.
> 
> When you use optical > E17/E09K the optical plugs into the top of the (docked) E17.
> 
> ...


 
  I like the tethered remote idea. The EO9K sounds like it would be ideal for my purposes. I very much like the sound my E17 puts out, so if the EO9K sounds as good I'd be very satisfied with that. As far as I know the E17 is the only Amp with true Bass and Treble controls built-in. That's a necessity for me. I'm quite impressed with the quality and the layout of the inputs and outputs. It's also the only one where I don't have to turn my iPod upside down in order to connect it. I wish more Amps had the inputs and outputs on opposite ends.


----------



## TrollDragon

A few problem I have with the E17 and E09K...
   
  I have my E17 docked to the E09K most of the time, the E09K will turn the E17 on and off when it powers up and down.
  The only problem is the screen on the E17 stays on the whole time risking possible screen burn-in. If you switch the hold button while the E17 is docked it's screen will go blank like it should, then if you power off the E09K the E17 stays powered on because it's in hold mode. I feel that the E17 when docked needs to follow the power of the E09K no matter what. 
   
  A really nice feature would be to get rid of the "Sleep Timer" (who uses the Sleep Timer) and put in a "Display Timeout" function for when it's docked or not. That way the screen would blank, there would be no risk of screen burn-in and the hold button would not be required to blank the screen.
   
  All in all a great little combo, adding a Display Timeout, a Power synchronize and possibly a back support for the E17 when it's docked. I just don't feel that the dock connector on either device is very solid compared to other devices I have that will dock.
   
  These features would make the E17/E09K combo even better IMHO!


----------



## 1-MiC

heya e17 owners, i have a odd question.
   
  My situation is that i have a M-audio sound card with 1 digital spdif output and 2 analog outputs. Now currently i have the analog 1/4" jacks going to my schiit magni vs 1/4" to RCA cables. What i'm looking to do is add some studio monitors, however this will take up my 2 analog outputs, so i'd have to use the spdif coaxial to a DAC then to the magni for my headphones. I was wondering if anyone knows weather or not i could do Spdif IN on the E17, and still do lineout via the L7 LOD? I was wondering if maybe the bypass switch would accomplish this? 

 Basically this would be my chain. 

  M-Audio "Audiophile" 192 > Studio Monitors
                                 + Spdif  > Fiio E17 > (hopefully using line-out) > Schiit Magni > headphones

 I understand that worst case scenario i would just have to skip the LOD idea, and use the headphone amp to feed the magni, but i wanted to avoid that. I am looking at the E17 thinking hopefully i could get it to work on my desktop setup, and as a portable option.


----------



## Teddy Tc

FIIO I have only one complaint.
Please make the very good quality velvet bag that you ship with it slightly larger. 
With the rubber straps on I cannot put the amp and iPhone in the bag together. 
Sooooooo annoying.

Other than that i have only praise for the little piece of kit that is the E17 amp, I love it


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





1-mic said:


> heya e17 owners, i have a odd question.
> 
> My situation is that i have a M-audio sound card with 1 digital spdif output and 2 analog outputs. Now currently i have the analog 1/4" jacks going to my schiit magni vs 1/4" to RCA cables. What i'm looking to do is add some studio monitors, however this will take up my 2 analog outputs, so i'd have to use the spdif coaxial to a DAC then to the magni for my headphones. I was wondering if anyone knows weather or not i could do Spdif IN on the E17, and still do lineout via the L7 LOD? I was wondering if maybe the bypass switch would accomplish this?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  All you need is buy a L7 can connect to the dock of E17 , you will get the line out signal from the 3.5mm jack in L7.


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





teddy tc said:


> FIIO I have only one complaint.
> Please make the very good quality velvet bag that you ship with it slightly larger.
> With the rubber straps on I cannot put the amp and iPhone in the bag together.
> Sooooooo annoying.
> ...


 
   
  the velvet bas is justo to store the E17, but we will consider to release some kinds of bag which can put a amp and a DAP( iPhone or others ) together inside the bag.


----------



## Robius

Finally bought an e17 and it will arrive tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Never listened any DAC before except onboard pc cards. I'll share my first thoughts as soon as it arrives.


----------



## 1-MiC

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> All you need is buy a L7 can connect to the dock of E17 , you will get the line out signal from the 3.5mm jack in L7.


 
  Awesome, thanks!


----------



## jasonb

Congrats, enjoy. Make sure to come back and leave some comments once you get it.
  Quote: 





robius said:


> Finally bought an e17 and it will arrive tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## steffanan

yeah mine came DOA also. dang


----------



## rick88

Hello all, this is my first post on this forum. I received my new E17 Alpen today, and I am currently charging the battery. I am anxious to see how my AKG K240 MKII's sound with this little amp. More later...


----------



## bowei006

rick88 said:


> Hello all, this is my first post on this forum. I received my new E17 Alpen today, and I am currently charging the battery. I am anxious to see how my AKG K240 MKII's sound with this little amp. More later...


"Welcome to Head Fi! Sorry about your Wallet"


----------



## Madelynn

I just got a e17 in the mail yesterday. Let it charge all night on a usb wall charger and it got nothing. I thought maybe it could be the charger so I plugged it into my laptop but still nothing. Do I have a dud or is there something I am missing. USB Charge is on. (Very annoyed)


----------



## Chris J

madelynn said:


> I just got a e17 in the mail yesterday. Let it charge all night on a usb wall charger and it got nothing. I thought maybe it could be the charger so I plugged it into my laptop but still nothing. Do I have a dud or is there something I am missing. USB Charge is on. (Very annoyed)




It absolutely, positively will not turn on?
Sounds like a dud.
At least it should be under warranty!


----------



## AgentXXL

madelynn said:


> I just got a e17 in the mail yesterday. Let it charge all night on a usb wall charger and it got nothing. I thought maybe it could be the charger so I plugged it into my laptop but still nothing. Do I have a dud or is there something I am missing. USB Charge is on. (Very annoyed)




Make sure the hold switch is fully released - no orange visible. That's been a common cause of apparent duds.

Dale


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





madelynn said:


> I just got a e17 in the mail yesterday. Let it charge all night on a usb wall charger and it got nothing. I thought maybe it could be the charger so I plugged it into my laptop but still nothing. Do I have a dud or is there something I am missing. USB Charge is on. (Very annoyed)


 
   
  When it charged, was there a Red light on?  If not it wasn't charging ; could be a dud, or the cable could be bad and not passing the power.
   
  If the red light was on and went off thru the night.....  Try pressing the reset button.  Here's why:
   
  Once, and only once, when I charged it the first time from empty to full and left it plugged in for a few hours after it was fully charged (red light went off), it would not turn on when I unplugged it from the power and went to turn it on.  I pressed the tiny reset button w/a pin ; it started-up. And further this issue had never re-occurred again even after fully charging it an leaving it plugged in long after.


----------



## v10gta

I really want one after reading this !


----------



## jasonb

It really is a kickass little amp and DAC. I love mine along with my AKG Q701. I've never been happier, and I've had "better" gear in the past.
  Quote: 





v10gta said:


> I really want one after reading this !


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





agentxxl said:


> Make sure the hold switch is fully released - no orange visible. That's been a common cause of apparent duds.


 
   
  Now that's funny...
   
  Many years ago we had one of our store manager's send in his whole stock of a certain Boom Box for repair because they made no sound... I sent them all back to him with an *"Adjusted Tape Monitor Switch"* on each work order. (I just pushed it to disengage it.)


----------



## adani

When I use e17 as a dac-only with L7 line-out dock and lo-bypass is set to on, everything works as expected and I have no volume control, equalizer etc. But say I actually want to have some EQ and still to be able to connect e17 to an external amp - disabling lo-bypas does just that. So there is a question - is this mode really a line out or should this be avoided, as it leads to double amping?


----------



## Madelynn

Ordered two e17's this week from amazon and both gave me a charging error (flashing red light) this is lame. I just want a working amp.


----------



## rick88

Quote: 





madelynn said:


> Ordered two e17's this week from amazon and both gave me a charging error (flashing red light) this is lame. I just want a working amp.


 
  Sorry to hear that. While I have not had any troubles with mine in the two days I've owned it, I did experience some frustration in just getting it. 
   
  I ordered mine from Micca Distributors (through Amazon) so that I'd get the free toslink cable (which is VERY nice quality). I ordered it on January 31st, and it was supposed to be delivered by February 11th. After it did not arrive by the 12th and there were no tracking updates since Feb 1st, I began to panic, so I contacted the seller that evening. In less than 2 hours I got a reply. The woman from customer service said it must have gotten lost by the Postal Service. She asked me if I wanted a refund or for them to ship another package out to me. I told her that I wanted to try the amp really bad, so asked her to please ship me another one. The next day she sent me the tracking info for the 2nd package, and I have to say I was very impressed with the great and speedy customer service!! 
   
  Anyhow, the amp arrived on Wednesday, and I immediately opened it up and charged it. I have tried it with several different sources, from the optical out of my desktop PC, the USB from my laptop, the optical out of my Yamaha DVD-S2500 Universal Disc player, and the coaxial out of my Sony BDP-S580 Blu-Ray/SACD player, and it sounds great with all 4 sources. I would have to say that it is everything all the owners have said it is. Everything about it screams quality to me, from the packaging, to the build quality, to the great features, and most importantly the sound. In the 2 days I've used it around 10 hours, and the battery meter still shows it has a little more than half of its charge remaining. After getting it going and making any EQ and volume adjustments, I put it in hold mode, assuming that if the OLED screen was always on, it would significantly reduce battery life. Anyhow, my AKG K240 MKII's love this little gem of an amp as much as I do, and I couldn't be more happy with this purchase!!
   
  Now, getting off topic a bit, can anyone please tell me why I can't upload pictures and change my avatar? Is there a minimum post count before one can do so? I tried to find info on the forum, with no luck. But I have seen others with between 10-20 posts that have changed their avatar. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Madelynn

Quote: 





rick88 said:


> Sorry to hear that. While I have not had any troubles with mine in the two days I've owned it, I did experience some frustration in just getting it.
> 
> I ordered mine from Micca Distributors (through Amazon) so that I'd get the free toslink cable (which is VERY nice quality). I ordered it on January 31st, and it was supposed to be delivered by February 11th. After it did not arrive by the 12th and there were no tracking updates since Feb 1st, I began to panic, so I contacted the seller that evening. In less than 2 hours I got a reply. The woman from customer service said it must have gotten lost by the Postal Service. She asked me if I wanted a refund or for them to ship another package out to me. I told her that I wanted to try the amp really bad, so asked her to please ship me another one. The next day she sent me the tracking info for the 2nd package, and I have to say I was very impressed with the great and speedy customer service!!
> 
> ...


 
  My family orders tons of stuff from Amazon so we have a prime membership. It's how I was able to get two to my house within the week ($3.99 overnight shipping). I want to try and find the distributor you used, but my wife is going to give me an ear full if I do before the money for the two I already ordered clears. (Pavilion Electronics & SMICORP are the distributors I order from by the way.)


----------



## rick88

Quote: 





madelynn said:


> My family orders tons of stuff from Amazon so we have a prime membership. It's how I was able to get two to my house within the week ($3.99 overnight shipping). I want to try and find the distributor you used, but my wife is going to give me an ear full if I do before the money for the two I already ordered clears. (Pavilion Electronics & SMICORP are the distributors I order from by the way.)


 
  I used to be a Prime member myself, but did not renew for the year last November. Still, I would have ordered it directly from Amazon themselves, but they do not have the Alpen in stock. I see those distributors you mentioned, but they are selling the "old" version of the E17, not the Alpen. Perhaps they do sell the Alpen as well, but the only seller listed on Amazon selling the Alpen currently is Micca.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Advanced-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B008D2OPG2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361584313&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+e17+alpen


----------



## Madelynn

I didn't know there was a old and new model. The one I have now has "Alpen" on the back and I believe the one before that did too.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





madelynn said:


> I didn't know there was a old and new model. The one I have now has "Alpen" on the back and I believe the one before that did too.


 
  The first one or two batches had E17 on the back. Every other batch after had ALPEN on its back.


----------



## john65537

hello!
  Yesterday I used E17's SPDIF input for some music, quite good.
  But I noticed E17's menu showing it is using 48/16 bit mode.
  Can I set it into higher mode?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





john65537 said:


> hello!
> Yesterday I used E17's SPDIF input for some music, quite good.
> But I noticed E17's menu showing it is using 48/16 bit mode.
> Can I set it into higher mode?


 
  Windows or Mac?
  http://youtu.be/axAewk-qFGw?t=4m30s
   
  Video has instructions for both Windows and Mac.
   
  Are you using foobar or just a program like iTunes?


----------



## I hate bottles

I must say fiio e 17 is just incredible. The synergy with akg q701 is just incredible over usb from my laptop. I dont even need to raise my gain setting higher than 1.
  I have a theory. I think that if you made a blind test with akg q701 and tried different amps from different price ranges over e17 you would probably not be able to tell wich is better. When i read about people saying that akg q 701 need an amp costing 2000 dollar i think it is mostly placebo. I also think that if you like the sound from the more expensive amp it is because the sound gets an pleasent distortion. Like the expensive tube amps all modern science have proven delivering a less clean and accurate sound than solid state amp, beacause the sound is more "real" or "warm". 
  I think Fiio e 17 is realy god bang for the bucks in a industry filled with snake oil products 
   
   
  You must pardon if my english is bad, but my native language is norwegian


----------



## john65537

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Windows or Mac?
> http://youtu.be/axAewk-qFGw?t=4m30s
> 
> Video has instructions for both Windows and Mac.
> ...


 
   
  With Windows NB or PC, I always use USB connection for E17, which can be set into 96/24 bit mode.
   
  The SPDIF connection I mentioned here, is provided by a RMVB player,
  which has only SPDIF RAW and SPDIF LPCM setting options.
   
  I suspect the SPDIF 48/16 mode I got is due to the FLAC file's resolution.


----------



## adani

From what I gather, E17 shows only 48/16 when both 44/16 and 48/16 are actually fed to it from the computer. When you go 96/24 or 192/24, these values are displayed corretly. Maybe E17 just cannot display "44/16" on its screen, or it upsamples anything below 48/16 (which would be a shame).


----------



## VerBla

Does any of you guys also own a Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1? I'm highly doubting between these two for use as a desktop amp/dac


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





adani said:


> From what I gather, E17 shows only 48/16 when both 44/16 and 48/16 are actually fed to it from the computer. When you go 96/24 or 192/24, these values are displayed corretly. Maybe E17 just cannot display "44/16" on its screen, or it upsamples anything below 48/16 (which would be a shame).


 
   
  Quote: From The Manual


> (2) *44.1k and 48k will both display 48k*; 88.2k and 96k both display 96k
> (3) Default value is 24bit when sampling rate is 96k and 192k, others are 16bit.


 
   
  There is no up or down sampling it's just a display thing in my opinion.


----------



## jasonb

The E17 drives the Fostex T50RP very nicely.


----------



## seag33k

What are people's thoughts of adding the E9k with the E17 Alpen?


----------



## TrollDragon

seag33k said:


> What are people's thoughts of adding the E9k with the E17 Alpen?




Excellent combo! My E09K drives the DT880 250 ohm with all the power they need. I returned a Audioengine D1 as it didn't have enough power, for the price point the E09K is a good addition to the E17 IMHO.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





seag33k said:


> What are people's thoughts of adding the E9k with the E17 Alpen?


 
   
  I like my E17 + E09K!
  The volume control is a lot easier to operate and I like what it does for my Q701s.
  I bought it partly for the convenience factor, I can use the SPDIF input without worrying about running the battery down on the E17.


----------



## bareyb

Just wanted to say that my little E17 out powers my iDo Desktop Amp by a considerable margin. It's got more punch too. What a great little Amp! Best bang for the buck I've seen in a portable.


----------



## Jakkal

I'm wondering what will be better - E17 or Hifimydiy Sabre + cmoyBB?


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





jakkal said:


> I'm wondering what will be better - E17 or Hifimydiy Sabre + cmoyBB?


 

 The E17 of course.


----------



## john65537

Just found E17 shows 96/24 bit mode while playing 88/24 bit FLACs.


----------



## Allucid

jamesfiio said:


> -snip-





Hello Fiio.
My AUX jack on my e17 is completely destroyed.
What has happened is some idiot thought it'd be funny to smash my shorts on the concrete ground with my e17 in them, still connected to my AUX jack. He will not accept responsibility, or pay up. The jack has been rammed into the AUX connector, basically like ramming a screwdriver into the AUX port.

Is there anywhere I can get a repair? I'm a Fiio fan, but $130 for something I already have is costly. 

The amp only works now through DAC.


----------



## bowei006

allucid said:


> Hello Fiio.
> My AUX jack on my e17 is completely destroyed.
> What has happened is some idiot thought it'd be funny to smash my shorts on the concrete ground with my e17 in them, still connected to my AUX jack. He will not accept responsibility, or pay up. The jack has been rammed into the AUX connector, basically like ramming a screwdriver into the AUX port.
> 
> ...


Umm law enforcement? He damaged property worth a solid amount. Small claims ?
Im not an expert so i am just guessing this.

This isnt an emergency so you cant dial an emergency number. But calling or visiting the local pd through their local number may be able to get you help.

OR 
Do you know how to solder. You can buy or Fiio can provide 3.5mm jacks if you know how to solder

If that isnt an option. Contact fiio support.
See what options they have. They may give you some,
Maybe not.


----------



## Allucid

clieos said:


> *[First Impression]*
> This is only my first impression of the E17 'ALPEN'. Unfortunately, the engineering sample I received was damaged internally during the shipping. The AUX-in, which is what turns E17 into a pure amp, is not functioning properly. FiiO had checked the sample before sending it out to me but the prolonged / delayed (and possibly some knocking around) shipping due to the holidays somehow caused some malfunction on the AUX-in and I can only use it as an DAC amp. So FiiO is sending me a new sample, (which will be the final production version) and I'll have to send the defected unit back to them for diagnosis. So basically, until I receive the replacement I won't be able to finish up the review. But luckily I was able to do a quick listening and A/Bing to E10 (as other functions beside AUX-in are all intact) before packing it up so this will only be a very brief impression.
> 
> *Sonic Impression*
> ...



It's very solid. 
Except when you get idiots that steal it from you, slam the e17 down with the AUX cable plugged in.

Result: It's like a screwdriver in the AUX. It's totally ruined.


----------



## TrollDragon

john65537 said:


> Just found E17 shows 96/24 bit mode while playing 88/24 bit FLACs.




 Quote: From The Manual

 (2) 44.1k and 48k will both display 48k; 88.2k and 96k both display 96k
 (3) Default value is 24bit when sampling rate is 96k and 192k, others are 16bit. 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Allucid

bowei006 said:


> allucid said:
> 
> 
> > Hello Fiio.
> ...



Thanks. 
School, as where it was at, will not force the idiot to pay for it.
He walks around now, so smug, thinking he's untouchable because he doesn't have to cough up. 
I do know how to solder, thing is, I'd need an iron. And if I stuff it up... Well.. Broken Broken AUX jack indeed.


----------



## TrollDragon

Why would you quote the *Whole review?*


----------



## bowei006

allucid said:


> Thanks.
> School, as where it was at, will not force the idiot to pay for it.
> He walks around now, so smug, thinking he's untouchable because he doesn't have to cough up.
> I do know how to solder, thing is, I'd need an iron. And if I stuff it up... Well.. Broken Broken AUX jack indeed.




Schools generally will. Ask again

I would ask the school youth officer on this. He damaged private property on school property. 


trolldragon said:


> Why would you quote the *Whole review?*


Yeah


----------



## AstralStorm

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> OR
> Do you know how to solder. You can buy or Fiio can provide 3.5mm jacks if you know how to solder
> 
> If that isnt an option. Contact fiio support.
> ...


 
  Those are SMD jacks, if the pads are destroyed, which is very likely, there's no real way to fix it short of replacement of the whole PCB.


----------



## TrollDragon

One would have to see the damage first, epoxy and wire wrap wire have fixed many a damaged board.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Allucid

bowei006 said:


> allucid said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks.
> ...



I've took it through school. They will not force him to pay for it.

Why eat dinner?


----------



## phantomasko

Hey everyone, fresh owner of E17 here.

 So I've been playing around with it. Started with AUX from my MP3 player (creative zen x-fi style) to check on double amping, and it provided what I hoped for - boosting volume and bass for Soundmagic PL50 without hiss or anything.
 After that I tried optical connection with PS3 and HD555s. Been playing music for about an hour with Linear PCM 44.1 - 176.4 kHz enabled in sound settings and I was impressed. THEN I found a column in music settings called "output frequency" and it was set to 48kHz. So I changed it to 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz. Then I played a 44.1kHz 320kbps song on HD555s and that moment I heard really unpleasant uneven crackling sound so I unplugged them immediately. E17 was displaying 192K 24bit.
   
  Have I managed to screw something up?


----------



## davidcotton

Anyone still using one of these with a ye olde iriver 120?
   
  Cheers


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





phantomasko said:


> Hey everyone, fresh owner of E17 here.
> 
> So I've been playing around with it. Started with AUX from my MP3 player (creative zen x-fi style) to check on double amping, and it provided what I hoped for - boosting volume and bass for Soundmagic PL50 without hiss or anything.
> After that I tried optical connection with PS3 and HD555s. Been playing music for about an hour with Linear PCM 44.1 - 176.4 kHz enabled in sound settings and I was impressed. THEN I found a column in music settings called "output frequency" and it was set to 48kHz. So I changed it to 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz. Then I played a 44.1kHz 320kbps song on HD555s and that moment I heard really unpleasant uneven crackling sound so I unplugged them immediately. E17 was displaying 192K 24bit.
> ...


 
  Probably not.
   
  Play some music and use it for a day. 
   
  I doubt changing the sampling will actually fry anything if it can at all. Probably an incompatability between something sent.
   
  Play some music for a day and try it out. But yeah, doubt anything happened.
   
  "Welcome to Head-Fi!Sorry about your wallet"


----------



## Chris J

allucid said:


> Thanks.
> School, as where it was at, will not force the idiot to pay for it.
> He walks around now, so smug, thinking he's untouchable because he doesn't have to cough up.
> I do know how to solder, thing is, I'd need an iron. And if I stuff it up... Well.. Broken Broken AUX jack indeed.




With any luck he will have a bright promising future in a prison farm, say 5-10 years.
People like that disgust me.:mad:


----------



## Frankie007

Ok guys so I e been reading this thread for like 4 hours straight trying to see if anyone has had the same issue I have. I got my e17 in last week and used it primarily with my desktop using USB and tried a coax today. I don't really noticed a difference going from 44khz to 96khz. Today I decided to hook it up to my MacBook and that's when it all started. Sound is greatly affected by switching from 32khz to 44 to 48 and to 96. Going from 32 to 44 and then to 48 seems to widen the sound stage and there's more of a sparkle now this is where things get interesting, when I switch to 96khz the sound is muffled there's no sparkle, it sounds like if you put your hand In front of a speaker. I tried everything I could think of I even switch to the optical out from my MB thinking maybe it had something to do with the USB port, same result. Everything is up to date on the Mac. It is an older Mac one of the white ones from 2007. Any ideas what could be causing this. Thanks guys I'm a bit confused by this.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





frankie007 said:


> Ok guys so I e been reading this thread for like 4 hours straight trying to see if anyone has had the same issue I have. I got my e17 in last week and used it primarily with my desktop using USB and tried a coax today. I don't really noticed a difference going from 44khz to 96khz. Today I decided to hook it up to my MacBook and that's when it all started. Sound is greatly affected by switching from 32khz to 44 to 48 and to 96. Going from 32 to 44 and then to 48 seems to widen the sound stage and there's more of a sparkle no this is where things get interesting when switch to 96khz the sound is muffled there's no sparkle sounds like if you put your hand In front of a speaker. I tried everything g I could even switch to the optical out from my MB thinking maybe it had something to do with the USB port. Everything is up to date on the Mac. It is an older Mac one of the white ones from 2007. Any ideas what could be causing this. Thanks guys I'm a bit confused by this.


 
  Don't do 32. 44.1 and above. 
   
  The difference usually isn't as large as what you are saying if not even harder to tell
   
  have a friend/family run a blind A/B as they change it and ask you what you think it is. Getting 50% right is not good btw. 
   
  Anyway, some do have a gold coin for doing that stuff so see if you do.


----------



## Frankie007

bowei006 said:


> Don't do 32. 44.1 and above.
> 
> The difference usually isn't as large as what you are saying if not even harder to tell
> 
> ...



I know and that's what I'm trying to say on my pc the changes aren't very noticeable but on my MacBook they are very noticeable and jumping to 96khz from 48khz makes the sound worse


----------



## Frankie007

Ok guys so I've been up since like 7am( it's almost 1 now) listening to the e17 with various sources and comparing. I've compared my PC to my MacBook and what I was hearing last night is till true jumping from 38khz to 44khz to 48khz changes the sound dramatically on my MacBook and then going to 96khz just makes things really bad the sound is muffled. Now compare this to my PC and the sound is so different between the two with similar options. I ran the e17 from both my Mac and my pc through USB and optical and the results are all the same. From the MacBook at 48khz the soundstage is so wide and there's such a sparkle in the highs. The pc has great clarity but with a smaller soundstage. I did this comparison using the same track playing in sync from Mac and PC once going from USB from Mac and optical from PC and vise versa using the same 48khz setting on both switching between USB and optical on the e17. I went as far as to do a clean install of OS X on my Mac thinking that maybe an application was altering the sound and nope same results. Any ideas???
Oh I also compared my iPods on the e17 iPod touch 2nd gen, iPod video 5.5 gen and 7th gen classic and of the three I prefer the touch did this very briefly while OS was installing on my Mac.


----------



## Madelynn

Quote: 





allucid said:


> Hello Fiio.
> My AUX jack on my e17 is completely destroyed.
> What has happened is some idiot thought it'd be funny to smash my shorts on the concrete ground with my e17 in them, still connected to my AUX jack. He will not accept responsibility, or pay up. The jack has been rammed into the AUX connector, basically like ramming a screwdriver into the AUX port.
> 
> ...


 
  Go to the police or beat the crap out of him...


----------



## catspaw

Quote: 





frankie007 said:


> Ok guys so I've been up since like 7am( it's almost 1 now) listening to the e17 with various sources and comparing. I've compared my PC to my MacBook and what I was hearing last night is till true jumping from 38khz to 44khz to 48khz changes the sound dramatically on my MacBook and then going to 96khz just makes things really bad the sound is muffled. Now compare this to my PC and the sound is so different between the two with similar options. I ran the e17 from both my Mac and my pc through USB and optical and the results are all the same. From the MacBook at 48khz the soundstage is so wide and there's such a sparkle in the highs. The pc has great clarity but with a smaller soundstage. I did this comparison using the same track playing in sync from Mac and PC once going from USB from Mac and optical from PC and vise versa using the same 48khz setting on both switching between USB and optical on the e17. I went as far as to do a clean install of OS X on my Mac thinking that maybe an application was altering the sound and nope same results. Any ideas???
> Oh I also compared my iPods on the e17 iPod touch 2nd gen, iPod video 5.5 gen and 7th gen classic and of the three I prefer the touch did this very briefly while OS was installing on my Mac.


 
  Have you checked whenever your pcs/mac can actually handle those qualities?
  If you are using on board audio, its probably the 96khz on the mac simply aint supported or its not good quality?
   
  Not really sure here, but it does seem like your mac is the one with the trouble here.


----------



## Frankie007

catspaw said:


> Have you checked whenever your pcs/mac can actually handle those qualities?
> If you are using on board audio, its probably the 96khz on the mac simply aint supported or its not good quality?
> 
> Not really sure here, but it does seem like your mac is the one with the trouble here.


 Thanks that's what I'm thinking too something to do with my MacBook its 7 years old and it's been through hell the battery only last for like 2 hours the middle row on the keyboard doesn't work she's a trooper.


----------



## rihsc102

Hi
   
  I have a question about using the iPad 3 with the E17. I was reading through this thread and saw some earlier posts saying that they used the iPad 3 like this:
   
  iPad --> Matrix USB to Digital Coaxial Converter --> Fiio E17 --> Headphones
   
  I don't understand why the converter is necessary. Aren't you just converting one type of digital signal to another? Couldn't I just get an iPad to mini-USB adaptor and connect it that way. Does the USB-DCC have advantages?
   
  Any help is appreciated.


----------



## CollectoR13

I think the problem is that the Fiio draws too much Power over USB, so the CCK refuses it.
But I also heard that you could use a battery powered USB hub or in General a usb hub, to prevent this.
So the USB to toslink Adapter would not draw too much Power and delivers a digital signal to the Fiio.
Hope you know what I mean!

gesendet von meinem Sony Xperia S mit P.A.C. Rom 19.3.2 + Nova Kernel OC07


----------



## rihsc102

Quote: 





collector13 said:


> I think the problem is that the Fiio draws too much Power over USB, so the CCK refuses it.
> But I also heard that you could use a battery powered USB hub or in General a usb hub, to prevent this.
> So the USB to toslink Adapter would not draw too much Power and delivers a digital signal to the Fiio.
> Hope you know what I mean!
> ...


 
   
  Ah ok thanks for the reply. Seems strange though because the Fiio has it's own power source. Would there be any difference in sound quality between the USB Hub method and the USC to DCC method?


----------



## TrollDragon

Seems to only need a little cable magic...
   
  Quote:


rihsc102 said:


> Ah ok thanks for the reply. Seems strange though because the Fiio has it's own power source. Would there be any difference in sound quality between the USB Hub method and the USC to DCC method?


 
   
  From earlier in this thread...
   
   


agentxxl said:


> Just one clarification (that I mentioned earlier): a lot of the current cables that have dual type A USB connectors still won't work. This is because BOTH type A connectors have power connections. To use the E17 as a USB DAC with an iPad requires that only the USB data lines go from the iPad + CCK to the E17. The power connections should not go to the iPad + CCK (actually you could connect the GND wire in all connectors), but for it to work, no power from the iPad + CCK should flow to the E17 - it needs to be a completely isolated power feed. I've already tried a number of those old dual Type A cables and they do not work for this application.


 
   
  So it appears to only need data and a ground...


----------



## rihsc102

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> So it appears to only need data and a ground...


 
   
  So do you think I could modify a USB cable by removing pin 1 (power) from one end? Or would that not work?


----------



## Frankie007

Just got done setting this up
 all pretty much sustained on its on like this 
just have to get a longer USB extension cable and there's room in there to add an iPod touch in the near future.


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





rihsc102 said:


> So do you think I could modify a USB cable by removing pin 1 (power) from one end? Or would that not work?


 
  I don't have an iPad or CCK so I can't say for sure but in theory it should. I would just give it a try as USB cables are cheap and plentiful.
  If it doesn't then just ask Frankie007 how he set his up.
   
  Good Luck!


----------



## rihsc102

Quote: 





frankie007 said:


> Just got done setting this up
> all pretty much sustained on its on like this
> just have to get a longer USB extension cable and there's room in there to add an iPod touch in the near future.


 
   
  Thanks for the pics Frankie! Would you mind explaining exactly how you have set it up?


----------



## rihsc102

Also does anyone know if the iPad 3 DAC is any good? Am I going to get much better sound quality using the E17 as a DAC and an amp than I would if I was using the iPad DAC and E17 amp?


----------



## Frankie007

http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3495#post_8399026
  I followed this post that was on here earlier. The only things i had to get was the gearhead usb hub and the startech cable I got them both from Amazon for about 10 bucks everything else I already had o and i added an usb extension to have more mobility. Also depending on your headphones you may not need a separate amp unless you have harder to drive headphones.
   
  Edit: and the external battery is different too it's one I've had for a while it's a new trent model 12000mwh i think but any decent one would do


----------



## Chris J

rihsc102 said:


> Also does anyone know if the iPad 3 DAC is any good? Am I going to get much better sound quality using the E17 as a DAC and an amp than I would if I was using the iPad DAC and E17 amp?





What 'phones are you using?
I like the sound I get out of my iPad 1 and ATH ESW-10 Jpn.


----------



## rihsc102

Quote: 





chris j said:


> What 'phones are you using?
> I like the sound I get out of my iPad 1 and ATH ESW-10 Jpn.


 
  After doing lots of research, I've finally decided to go with some Beyer DT990 Pros


----------



## Chris J

rihsc102 said:


> After doing lots of research, I've finally decided to go with some Beyer DT990 Pros




They are excellent phones.
I would go with 250 Ohms or less.


----------



## rihsc102

Quote: 





chris j said:


> They are excellent phones.
> I would go with 250 Ohms or less.


 
   
  I think the PRO model only comes in 250ohm but I probably would have gone for that one anyway. They will be my first audiophile headphones, can't wait


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rihsc102 said:


> I think the PRO model only comes in 250ohm but I probably would have gone for that one anyway. They will be my first audiophile headphones, can't wait


 
   
  I find it impossible to keep up with the differences between the various models of DT770/880/990!


----------



## neo verity

Quote: 





frankie007 said:


> Thanks that's what I'm thinking too something to do with my MacBook its 7 years old and it's been through hell the battery only last for like 2 hours the middle row on the keyboard doesn't work she's a trooper.


 
  Hello Frankie,
   
  While everything is plugged in, have you tried doing a spotlight search on your mac for "Audio Midi Setup," opening that utility and then choosing and adjusting your source and format appropriately?
   
  Adam


----------



## Frankie007

neo verity said:


> Hello Frankie,
> 
> While everything is plugged in, have you tried doing a spotlight search on your mac for "Audio Midi Setup," opening that utility and then choosing and adjusting your source and format appropriately?
> 
> Adam


Thanks for the reply, I actually went ahead and reformatted my hard drive and did a fresh install of OS X from scratch and that fixed the problem. Last time I only did an upgrade so something was messing with the sound settings. Now I'm getting the exact sound signature as from my PC.


----------



## neo verity

Excellent! I'm glad you were able to solve that terrible issue.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





frankie007 said:


> Thanks for the reply, I actually went ahead and reformatted my hard drive and did a fresh install of OS X from scratch and that fixed the problem. Last time I only did an upgrade so something was messing with the sound settings. Now I'm getting the exact sound signature as from my PC.


 
   
   
  Always good to hear about 'older' Macs doing the job! (and good tip re: reformatting)  I too had that same Macbook ... and _still_ use as a digital source in my 2-channel setup, an iBook G4 (2003) - works great! (is _just_ new enough to Share Libraries/files wirelessly with my MBP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Though it just did occur to me, since the discussion was the Audio/Midi Setup, I'm not sure I've tried "Hi-Res" (HD Tracks 24/96 files, etc.) music on the iBook 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... cannot remember. (that is a very small part of my collection)


----------



## Frankie007

solserenade said:


> Always good to hear about 'older' Macs doing the job! (and good tip re: reformatting)  I too had that same Macbook ... and _still_ use as a digital source in my 2-channel setup, an iBook G4 (2003) - works great! (is _just_ new enough to Share Libraries/files wirelessly with my MBP :bigsmile_face: )
> 
> Though it just did occur to me, since the discussion was the Audio/Midi Setup, I'm not sure I've tried "Hi-Res" (HD Tracks 24/96 files, etc.) music on the iBook :confused_face_2:  ... cannot remember. (that is a very small part of my collection)



Yeah she's a trooper I've had it since October 2006 and she's been through hell. Just last year I switched from my original hdd to an ssd and upgraded my ram and she runs great (for what I use her which is just browsing and listening to music on occasion watching sd videos) for everything else I have my hexacore desktop


----------



## TrollDragon

We'll have to hijack this thread into the "*Old Mac's still doing the Job!*" thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here is the C2D Optical Out > E17 > DT880 Pro's (The Colorfly C3 is just strapped in on the bottom for the ride.)
   

   





 To Old Mac's still doing the Job!


----------



## Frankie007

trolldragon said:


> We'll have to hijack this thread into the "*Old Mac's still doing the Job!*" thread.


 Funny I was just thinking the same thing. Back on subject, does anyone know the specifics of whether or not the e17 bypasses the battery when used as a DAC via USB and you turn USB charging off. I believe it doesn't but won't be able to test and pay attention unit,the morning.


----------



## solserenade

frankie007 said:


> Yeah she's a trooper I've had it since October 2006 and she's been through hell. Just last year I switched from my original hdd to an ssd and upgraded my ram and she runs great (for what I use her which is just browsing and listening to music on occasion watching sd videos) for everything else I have my hexacore desktop




Very cool. I did not know a SSD was a possible upgrade for that Mac - I'd love to try one some day. 

Oh also … I'm off on the date of my iBook - may be more like late '04 (?). FWIW


----------



## solserenade

trolldragon said:


> We'll have to hijack this thread into the "*Old Mac's still doing the Job!*" thread.
> 
> Here is the C2D Optical Out > E17 > DT880 Pro's (The Colorfly C3 is just strapped in on the bottom for the ride.)
> 
> ...




Cheers. Looks great. 

I use Fidelia as well … but mine rests down at the bottom of the screen! lol (I wonder if wood blocks, or brass, would improve SQ!?)


----------



## deFiniLoGy

I think it looks pretty cool, but Fiio doesn't give me a nice experience at the past for driving DT880 (i know this is crazy lol..)...


----------



## m8o

FYI, just found an incredible matching headphone for the E17.  My poor Focal Spirit Ones that used to be glued to my E17 just got some heated competition in the form of a set of Yamaha Pro 500 cans I just picked-up.  Output level starts at 106db/mw and as they are only 23 ohms, they reach unparallelled levels of loud powered by the Alpen which can output close to max power into that impedance; yet all remains articulate and clear.  And bass is even more controlled than my Focals if not quite as flat and head shaking to the lowest octaves (it's in the presence range where these Yamahas really diverge from the Focals).  Great cans and great match to the Alpen.


----------



## Katsukare

Been quite a long time, still no firmware update for the E17?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kinky said:


> Been quite a long time, still no firmware update for the E17?


 
  There was never one. There was an ASIO update
   
  The E17 imo doesn't really need a firmware update. It is what it is. Some may not like pressing a button twice and other things, but thats the design.


----------



## avens

The screen should be automatically turned off. Not only it drains the battery for the sake of it but also is kind of distracting when fitted on top of a e9/e09k.
   
  (yep, created an account just for this)
   
  edit: now that I'm on this, it'd be nice having an updated version of the a1, lets say a a10k, that outputs more power.


----------



## bareyb

Quote: 





avens said:


> The screen should be automatically turned off. Not only it drains the battery for the sake of it but also is kind of distracting when fitted on top of a e9/e09k.
> 
> (yep, created an account just for this)
> 
> edit: now that I'm on this, it'd be nice having an updated version of the a1, lets say a a10k, that outputs more power.


 
  Welcome avens!


----------



## linuxid10t

Headphone out jack on mine just went bad.  Just sent the warranty form to Fiio, I'll see how this goes...


----------



## Frankie007

linuxid10t said:


> Headphone out jack on mine just went bad.  Just sent the warranty form to Fiio, I'll see how this goes...


Out of curiosity how long have you had it for and how much usage does it get?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





definilogy said:


> I think it looks pretty cool, but Fiio doesn't give me a nice experience at the past for driving DT880 (i know this is crazy lol..)...


 
   
  E17 does a decent job of driving the DT880/600 Ohm cans I own.
  But don't expect to listen at high SPLs with high dynamic range recordings and NOT get clipping.
  The E17 does not output enough voltage.
  For insurance I normally use my DT880/600 with the E17 + E09K.   I know, not too portable!


----------



## linuxid10t

Quote: 





frankie007 said:


> Out of curiosity how long have you had it for and how much usage does it get?


 
  I have had it since Christmas, and it gets used every day.  I baby it though.  It doesn't really get out much.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





linuxid10t said:


> I have had it since Christmas, and it gets used every day.  I baby it though.  It doesn't really get out much.


 
  I've got a dude I know that first won't let anyone touch his HE500's, bought aftermarket cables(for looks), and then one of those Omega headphone stands. No finger prints or anything on those headphones too, I think he cleans it daily or after every use? Well and then he took some glass/acrylic(forgot) and built a fricking caged dome around his entire headphone stand and setup with holes on the bottom so that the cables can be connected to source.
   
  I was like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  He has changed my definition of audio babying since I saw pics of it.
  Pics:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/586040/official-asian-anime-manga-and-music-lounge/64665#post_9255901


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I've got a dude I know that first won't let anyone touch his HE500's, bought aftermarket cables(for looks), and then one of those Omega headphone stands. No finger prints or anything on those headphones too, I think he cleans it daily or after every use? Well and then he took some glass/acrylic(forgot) and built a fricking caged dome around his entire headphone stand and setup with holes on the bottom so that the cables can be connected to source.
> 
> I was like
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sounds like he needs to get a grip!
  Like, chill out, dude!   
  LOL!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Sounds like he needs to get a grip!
> Like, chill out, dude!
> LOL!


 
  It's now being beautified and sanded and everything too.
   
  I kinda wish I was like him. Then, the awesome new toy syndrome would be forever.


----------



## linuxid10t

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I've got a dude I know that first won't let anyone touch his HE500's, bought aftermarket cables(for looks), and then one of those Omega headphone stands. No finger prints or anything on those headphones too, I think he cleans it daily or after every use? Well and then he took some glass/acrylic(forgot) and built a fricking caged dome around his entire headphone stand and setup with holes on the bottom so that the cables can be connected to source.
> 
> I was like
> 
> ...


 
  Wow, that is a bit much...  By a lot...  The pictures are just...  I just don't even...


----------



## TrollDragon

Well I really didn't care for the sloppy fit when the E17 is docked with the E09K, it has some sideways rocking play that didn't just feel right.
  I am used to Apple docks and how they fit smoothly together, even the 3rd party docks fit nice. I know this is not an Apple grade product but the loose fit can be remedied for future FiiO products by better design. I would like see a dock connector that has a metal shroud as well for more support.
   
  So what I did to remove the rocking play in the unit is to put two little strips of rubber on the floor of the E09K's dock bay. This strip came from the leftover rubber on a sheet of sticky feet.
   
  I cut the strip into pieces that would fit across the floor of the dock, these strips are 1.6mm thick and seem to be the perfect size,  since all sideways rocking motion has now ceased and the E17 still makes a great connection.
   

   





   
  While I was at it, I added bigger rubber feet to the E09K as well (1" Hemisphere Feet) that I had left over from a rack mount UPS installation, they had to be added just for Schiit's and Giggles.


----------



## ChevyVan

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> So what I did to remove the rocking play in the unit is to put two little strips of rubber on the floor of the E09K's dock bay. This strip came from the leftover rubber on a sheet of sticky feet.


 
   
  Thanks for the post. I have been considering the same thing--though I was thinking about rubber on the left and right, not the bottom - so thanks for that tip!


----------



## TrollDragon

Your most welcome!
On the bottom is the way to go.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Windsor

Hi there - just wrote a review on the E17 : http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e17/reviews/8634


----------



## Jakkal

Nice review. Thank you


----------



## TheManJP

The E17 is the first piece of real audio equipment I bought (before that it was far too many pairs of terrible, disposable earbuds). Gotta say, I've been happy with the purchase! I've found it to help give great sound at a great price. Doubly useful as my main headphones are a touch lacking in bass, and the E17 easily bumps it up to a normal level. I can see using it for a long time.


----------



## kcazbarach

What bit rate settings would I use on the e17 if I'm using it as a DAC via usb cable and through the headphone port?
   
  I never really bothered adjusting any of those settings when I set it up.
  and noticed alot of my music says 44.1k hz in foobar.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kcazbarach said:


> What bit rate settings would I use on the e17 if I'm using it as a DAC via usb cable and through the headphone port?
> 
> I never really bothered adjusting any of those settings when I set it up.
> and noticed alot of my music says 44.1k hz in foobar.


 
  44.1/24 is fine
   
  Supports up to 96/24 with USB. Some people had problems getting it that high, but if you don't, go ahead and change it. Remember to change the settings in both foobar(if you are using WASAPI/ASIO) and Windows Sound


----------



## kcazbarach

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 44.1/24 is fine
> 
> Supports up to 96/24 with USB. Some people had problems getting it that high, but if you don't, go ahead and change it. Remember to change the settings in both foobar(if you are using WASAPI/ASIO) and Windows Sound


 
   

 Ok thanks,
   
  when I choose 44.1/24-should it show 24 bit, 44.1k on the top of the E17? because it still shows 16 bit 48k, however when i choose 24 bit, 96k hz-it will show up correctly on the display (on the e17).


----------



## bowei006

kcazbarach said:


> Ok thanks,
> 
> when I choose 44.1/24-should it show 24 bit, 44.1k on the top of the E17? because it still shows 16 bit 48k, however when i choose 24 bit, 96k hz-it will show up correctly on the display (on the e17).


Depends if foobar is set right.

Also it also depends on the song being played.


----------



## kcazbarach

Hm yea, I was looking at foobar to set up the output for 24 bit, but it just says output is selected automatically.

 I just got this like a month ago, so I'm not completely sure.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kcazbarach said:


> Hm yea, I was looking at foobar to set up the output for 24 bit, but it just says output is selected automatically.
> 
> I just got this like a month ago, so I'm not completely sure.


 
  you can change foobar output settings and advanced settings where you can make it 96KHz


----------



## avens

I've been thinking about buying a senn 650. Is the e17+e09k combo powerful enough to drive it?
   
  I already have the latter, so hopefully the answer won't be a "no. You have to sell that and spend twice as much".


----------



## acti0n

Does this bypass the Macbook Air's keyboard volume controls (meaning all voluming control, including muting, would have to be done through the E17)?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





acti0n said:


> Does this bypass the Macbook Air's keyboard volume controls (meaning all voluming control, including muting, would have to be done through the E17)?


 
  No
   
  Volume control is still availble for you to play with
   
  it is HIGHLY recommended that Macbook volume adn ANY computer volume be always set to 100% if you are using E17 as DAC.


----------



## acti0n

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> No
> 
> Volume control is still availble for you to play with
> 
> it is HIGHLY recommended that Macbook volume adn ANY computer volume be always set to 100% if you are using E17 as DAC.


 
  Should software volume be maxed as well (e.g. iTunes)?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





acti0n said:


> Should software volume be maxed as well (e.g. iTunes)?


 
  Yes
   
  E7 did not allow you to change volume on your computer if you used it as DAC. But too many complained about why they couldn't (without realizing why) (or didn't care) and so FiiO announced that they will allow that from now on. 
   
  Anything should be at 100% (not over). 
   
  E17 can be at anything you want, but computer settings should be at 100%.


----------



## acti0n

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes
> 
> E7 did not allow you to change volume on your computer if you used it as DAC. But too many complained about why they couldn't (without realizing why) (or didn't care) and so FiiO announced that they will allow that from now on.
> 
> ...


 
  One of my concerns with this is the volume being too loud -- maybe only the first 10% of the amp's volume knob will actually be a listenable volume. How do you deal with this?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





acti0n said:


> One of my concerns with this is the volume being too loud -- maybe only the first 10% of the amp's volume knob will actually be a listenable volume. How do you deal with this?


 
  gain
   
   
  0 Gain and 60 steps gives you a lot to work with. Obviously, noise and inbalancae may be an issue if you have balanced armatures.


----------



## Ashade

As Bowie says, you absolute control over it. 0, 6 or 12db of amplification with 60 steps of volume on each of them. This is a great product, no regrets about it.
   
  In my case, I keep it because of the DAC, that is awesome. Probably you would not need the amp part for very low impedance HP.


----------



## acti0n

Quote: 





ashade said:


> As Bowie says, you absolute control over it. 0, 6 or 12db of amplification with 60 steps of volume on each of them. This is a great product, no regrets about it.
> 
> In my case, I keep it because of the DAC, that is awesome. Probably you would not need the amp part for very low impedance HP.


 
  I would be using this with a DT770 Pro 32ohm (anniversary edition) that should be arriving Monday. While my laptop can drive it to a sufficient volume, the consensus is an amp is needed to get the best sound (even more so than the higher ohm versions, surprisingly).
   
  Also, considering that I'll have this plugged into a laptop at all times and not using it portably, should I be looking elsewhere to get more for my money?
   
  And lastly, how durable is the headphone jack? I've read issues of jack loosening up on other Fiio amps such as the E10. I would be bringing this to and from work and potentially plugging/unplugging headphones multiple times a day.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





acti0n said:


> I would be using this with a DT770 Pro 32ohm (anniversary edition) that should be arriving Monday. While my laptop can drive it to a sufficient volume, the consensus is an amp is needed to get the best sound (even more so than the higher ohm versions, surprisingly).
> 
> Also, considering that I'll have this plugged into a laptop at all times and not using it portably, should I be looking elsewhere to get more for my money?
> 
> And lastly, how durable is the headphone jack? I've read issues of jack loosening up on other Fiio amps such as the E10. I would be bringing this to and from work and potentially plugging/unplugging headphones multiple times a day.


 
  yeah. The E17 is cost effective for multi use.
   
  The E10 or other units from iBasso, headamp, Nuforce, JDS, HRT, Audinist, Maverick Audio, Audio-gd
   
  may be better.
   
  FiiO has recently in the past year rolled out updates to the E10 and other units and just introduced a new type of headphone plug beginning with the E07K .
   
  The only way to ensure that the model you buy has the new headphone plugs if you are buying E10 or older units is only if you buy from authorized dealer.


----------



## DumbCK

Bought the E17 recently for my senn.598. I'm pretty darn happy with it, but I'm not really sure what the 'VOL MEM' and 'SYSTEM' settings in the menu are for. Also, does gain affect sound quality in any way or just the volume?


----------



## m8o

VOL MEM is so that it start back up after turning it off at the same volume level you had it on when you turned it off.  Else it starts at some low volume level.
   
  SYSTEM shows you things like how long it has been on, and other 'hardware' specifics.
  
  My feeling is 12db gain provides the most impact/attack of the music dynamics.  I feel when on 6db if I turn the volume up to be the same loudness as the music was on 12db gain, the music's 'attack' during dynamics is just a tiny bit less.  I use 6db with certain combinations of music and headphones, 12db gain for most tho.  I only use 0db gain if I'm using it as a DAC to feed an external amp right next to it, and I don't have a long [50 ft] line to drive.  Meaning, I use an optical out from my cable box to the E17, then use the headphone out w/an adapter to a pair of stereo RCA cables that run 50 feet in the wall to my office desk; in that case I leave it on 6 or 12db gain.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> gain
> 
> 
> 0 Gain and 60 steps gives you a lot to work with. Obviously, noise and inbalancae may be an issue if you have balanced armatures.




I agree!
That's what I do!

PS
006...... you need to listen to Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scherezade"............ u asked us to recommend you some Classical stuff...... try the Reiner version.


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> I agree!
> That's what I do!
> 
> PS
> 006...... you need to listen to Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scherezade"............ u asked us to recommend you some Classical stuff...... try the Reiner version.


Its hard for me to find most of this stuff and Yotube isnt exactly an altenative


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





m8o said:


> VOL MEM is so that it start back up after turning it off at the same volume level you had it on when you turned it off.  Else it starts at some low volume level.
> 
> SYSTEM shows you things like how long it has been on, and other 'hardware' specifics.
> 
> My feeling is 12db gain provides the most impact/attack of the music dynamics.  I feel when on 6db if I turn the volume up to be the same loudness as the music was on 12db gain, the music's 'attack' during dynamics is just a tiny bit less.  I use 6db with certain combinations of music and headphones, 12db gain for most tho.  I only use 0db gain if I'm using it as a DAC to feed an external amp right next to it, and I don't have a long [50 ft] line to drive.  Meaning, I use an optical out from my cable box to the E17, then use the headphone out w/an adapter to a pair of stereo RCA cables that run 50 feet in the wall to my office desk; in that case I leave it on 6 or 12db gain.


 
   
  SMH... I didn't even realize the E17 had the volume memory, gain settings etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I was searching on how to have the E17 remember the volume level when turning it off (I have it docked and use it as a DAC with my E9K) and came upon this thread.
   
  Since I got the thing I never even knew there were more options under the Menu screen! I'm such an idiot lol... I only thought there was the Treble, Bass, and Balance options as those are the first ones that show on the screen. Never even tried going down further!
   
  Since I have the E17 docked on the E9K practically 24/7 I should just set the gain to 0 right?


----------



## gjmallory

Quote: 





razzer001 said:


> Those that bought from us, MP4 Nation and were on preorder 1 and did not get a ship notification then unfortunately your order was not fulfilled. Our support has contacted all preorder 1 buyers whose orders did not ship, if you have not got our support email then check your spam box, we will have sent to your email address on your order. If you still can't find our email then open a new ticket at http://www.mp4nation.net/support and we will help you out.
> 
> I am very sorry we could not get every ones order out.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I am definitely having this problem...  Works great in Aux, but I bought it for the DAC!  So, I followed these steps and still NO sound...One thing that may mean something...Laptop calls the E17 a SPDIF device.  Any suggestions?


----------



## CollectoR13

gjmallory said:


> I am definitely having this problem...  Works great in Aux, but I bought it for the DAC!  So, I followed these steps and still NO sound...One thing that may mean something...Laptop calls the E17 a SPDIF device.  Any suggestions?



Have you Set the Fiio as a Standard Output?
To do this you open your playback devices, right-click on the fiio and Set as Standard.
Close your player, reopen it and try again.
I hope it works!


----------



## gjmallory

This is definitely getting frustrating. Making the E17 the Default didn't change the NO sound problem. Any other ideas? I appreciate your help!


----------



## gjmallory

This is definitely getting frustrating. Making the E17 the Default didn't change the NO sound problem. Any other ideas? I appreciate your help!


----------



## Frankie007

After you make it the default try unplugging the USB from the fiio wait 2 seconds then plug it back in. If not after making it the default try restarting your computer. 





gjmallory said:


> This is definitely getting frustrating. Making the E17 the Default didn't change the NO sound problem. Any other ideas? I appreciate your help!


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *pervysage* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...
> Since I got the thing I never even knew there were more options under the Menu screen! I'm such an idiot lol... I only thought there was the Treble, Bass, and Balance options as those are the first ones that show on the screen. Never even tried going down further!
> Since I have the E17 docked on the E9K practically 24/7 I should just set the gain to 0 right?


 
   
  Hahaha.. Glad I could be of accidental assistance.
   
  0db gain is what I plan to do when I get the dock.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> Its hard for me to find most of this stuff and Yotube isnt exactly an altenative




You should be able to find Scheherazade on ITunes???

$3.99 for the Reiner version!


----------



## JSchwage

Just ordered the E17 as my first portable amp and DAC. Can't wait to try it out!


----------



## Got the Shakes

I have a MacBook Pro that can output digital audio via an optical connection.  Would there be a noticeable sound difference hooking up an E17 that way instead of the USB connection?


----------



## TrollDragon

Not that I have found with the E17 optically from my C2D.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Got the Shakes

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Not that I have found with the E17 optically from my C2D.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


 
  Thanks.  I currently have an E07K and now that I have a laptop capable of doing digital optical, I was considering upgrading to an E17.  If there isn't a big difference between using the optical connection vs. the USB connection than there doesn't seem to be a reason for me to buy an E17 to replace my E07K.


----------



## TrollDragon

The E17 will do 24/192 on the optical port if you require a high resolution, it also supports a coax input as well.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Got the Shakes

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> The E17 will do 24/192 on the optical port if you require a high resolution, it also supports a coax input as well.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


 
  Would it be a noticeable sound upgrade if I were using the E17 hooked up via optical to my MacBook to listen to 320 kbps mp3s and playing games?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





got the shakes said:


> I have a MacBook Pro that can output digital audio via an optical connection.  Would there be a noticeable sound difference hooking up an E17 that way instead of the USB connection?


 
  For most people. No. 
  Quote: 





got the shakes said:


> Would it be a noticeable sound upgrade if I were using the E17 hooked up via optical to my MacBook to listen to 320 kbps mp3s and playing games?


 
  I doubt so.
   
  It would be a bigger pain.
   
  You have to worry about optical cables and not getting the lens dirty etc etc.
   
  USB is fine


----------



## Got the Shakes

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> For most people. No.
> I doubt so.
> 
> It would be a bigger pain.
> ...


 
  Thank you very much.  One other quick question.  Can you use a DAC connected to a USB 3.0 hub instead of straight to the USB port?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





got the shakes said:


> Thank you very much.  One other quick question.  Can you use a DAC connected to a USB 3.0 hub instead of straight to the USB port?


 
  Yes
   
  It may not work sometimes. But rarely.
   
  A hub can be passive or active. If the DAC draws too much power(maybe battery charge feature is on). It may not work with a passive hub(one that doesn't use external power) if it draws too much and other active devices are connected to that hub.
   
  But yes. USB 3.0 is backwards compatable with USB 2.0.


----------



## Got the Shakes

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Yes
> 
> It may not work sometimes. But rarely.
> 
> ...


 
  Every 3.0 hub I've looked at has an external power supply, so it sounds like I'd be good.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





got the shakes said:


> Every 3.0 hub I've looked at has an external power supply, so it sounds like I'd be good.


 
  Even the ones without will work for the most part. I was just giving a more in depth answer.


----------



## Stoney

I have the initial impression that the E17 is a bit more dynamic (as someone else said) and smoother in the treble when its gain is set to maximum.  I'm surprised if this is borne out, because I had assumed the volume control was purely digital.  
   
  On my Arrow 4G, this is definitely true, presumably because the all-analog design reduces loop feedback when at higher gains.  I am using it at mid-gain, and finding it takes a bit of edge from the treble, but also some detail is lost....  
   
  (HD650 + iPad 3 with Arrow; MacBook Pro with optical to E17 and no USB cable.)


----------



## Chris J

stoney said:


> I have the initial impression that the E17 is a bit more dynamic (as someone else said) and smoother in the treble when its gain is set to maximum.  I'm surprised if this is borne out, because I had assumed the volume control was purely digital.
> 
> On my Arrow 4G, this is definitely true, presumably because the all-analog design reduces loop feedback when at higher gains.  I am using it at mid-gain, and finding it takes a bit of edge from the treble, but also some detail is lost....
> 
> (HD650 + iPad 3 with Arrow; MacBook Pro with optical to E17 and no USB cable.)




Just my opinion, but the E17 sounds the same at all gains to me.


----------



## TrollDragon

For those with Windows 7 and an E17 / E09K combo...
  I got tired of looking at the generic "Car Radio" SPDIF Interface icon in the sound mixer so I changed it.
   

   
  Right Click the volume control in the notification area and select Playback Devices.
  Click on the SPDIF Interface (FiiO USB DAC-E17) and select Properties.
  On the properties dialog screen click the Change Icon Button.
  Select the previously saved Icon file below and hit OK.
   
  Save this Icon file in your Docs or Pics...
  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/29361323/E17-E09K.ico
  (Right Click the link in FireFox and select "Save Link As")
   
  Much nicer IMHO.


----------



## vazmuten

I just received my FiiO E17 and I have a question concerning it's battery life.
   
  I will use it 100% of the time connected to my home PC. 
  If I set it to "USB Charge ON" will it last 20 years from power supply point of view OR after a few years when the battery dies it will stop ?


----------



## bowei006

Even if the battery dies. It should still work. That is only if only the battery dies


----------



## JSchwage

Quote: 





vazmuten said:


> I just received my FiiO E17 and I have a question concerning it's battery life.
> 
> I will use it 100% of the time connected to my home PC.
> If I set it to "USB Charge ON" will it last 20 years from power supply point of view OR after a few years when the battery dies it will stop ?


 

 If you'll be using your E17 plugged in all the time I would recommend running it off the battery for a few hours maybe once or twice a month just to keep the battery conditioned. Don't drain it completely though as this is actually worse for lithium ion batteries.


----------



## bowei006

*Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
 When the device is in use, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17/E07K is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually *bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries. *HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE* every month or two as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally as the E17/E07K's firmware will reset!
  
 Li-ION batteris on general will last effectively 1000 complete charges before battery drops below about ~70% of the original storage. This is still acceptable by most consumers standards.
  
 20 hours full battery life * 1000 effective uses =20,000 hours / 24 hours a day = 833 days theoretically before the E07K under theoretical conditions will decrease to 70% of its original storage life and this is with a full depletion and then charge cycle. And that is 24 hour usage as well.
  
 FiiO currently reports that they will send replacement parts for a very low price. The battery is not that hard to user replace(but not under warranty). 
  
 Partial charges for Li-ION's are better but of course constantly doing partial ones has also been reported to have an effect on the device as well which is why I recommend to charge before all power is gone and to charge till full.
  
 The last point to make is that you can't use a device if you keep on babying it. Using a device and enjoying it is part of that batteries intent and life cycle. Honeslty, ANYTHING you do to it will have an effect on battery life. The majority of the time, it is a minute effect to something like an audio device. (This advice does not hold for Power Wheels, those buggers need proper battery handling). Enjoy the device, theoretically it will hold up well for many years.
  
  
 http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_performance_as_a_function_of_cycling
 http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
  
 Disclaimer: I am not an expert on batteries. I am self taught. Please correct me if something is wrong. But use sources and not just something your papa or person told you to always do.


----------



## vazmuten

This sounds terrific BUT the FiiO E17 is placed behind my PC. It's not possible to check it. My question was - if I set it not to charge will it die. The answer was clear - yes.
  So I will put it On charge and it should last forever.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> *Correct Panda Battery Procedure:*
> When the device is in use, do not use USB charge. Turn it off. When the E17/E07K is on it's final bar of battery, turn USB charge(or the USB cable) on and charge it to full. And then unplug or turn off USB charge and use until you are on your last bar of battery left. When you see the bars reduce to one, it would be best to start charging(sometimes you are out, and you can't, that's understandable, a few times won't hurt). Li-ion batteries like the one's found the in the FiiO E17 Alpen's don't react well to a full cycle of charge and FULLY de charge until the battery is dead. This has been proven to be actually *bad* to the life of li-ioin batteries. *HOWEVER.*, you should do a full cycle where you fully charge up the device and use it all the way until the device automatically turns off *ONCE* every month or two as that has been shown to actually be good for the battery *WHETHER you use it constantly or not. *Do not fear my friend, even if USB charge is turned off when the device "dies" it will still charge after it runs out of power naturally as the E17/E07K's firmware will reset!
> 
> Li-ION batteris on general will last effectively 1000 complete charges before battery drops below about ~70% of the original storage. This is still acceptable by most consumers standards.
> ...


 
   
  I like the other Avatar better!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I like the other Avatar better!


 
  It's Steve Guttenbug month 
   
  Audiophile April is our theme for April and this month, we celebrate Steve. Steve has been a friend to Tyll and to our community for many years. As a CNET writer on audio, he is able to share our views to the rest of the world.
   
  Let's give it up for Steve
   
  If you look closely, you will see something on his chest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The symbol of manliness


----------



## Adam2211

How does this compare to the E07K?


----------



## JSchwage

Quote: 





adam2211 said:


> How does this compare to the E07K?


 

 The E17 has a more powerful amp. From what I recall the E07K can only drive headphones up to the 150-ish ohm range whereas the E17 can drive 300 ohm headphones. This is one reason the E07K lasts much longer on the battery. The E07K and E17 contain the same DAC if I recall correctly. Another difference would be the placement of buttons which I find much more convenient on the E17 since they're on the face of the device. I'm sure there's some other differences I'm missing but I was trying to decide between the E07K and E17 myself for a while and finally decided to get the E17 since I've been looking at some 250-ohm Beyerdynamics.
   
  Hope that helps!


----------



## bowei006

E07K and E17 are just as powerful as each other (output wise) and all use the same DAC. The op amp used is different, implementation of its circuitry, usb reveiver and spdif receivers(andes has none) are also different


----------



## Adam2211

Thanks for the reply.
  Yeah that really helps. Will definitely look to get one now!


----------



## scottie4442

Just in case someone came here looking for an answer to this question, yes the e17 does work with ubuntu/linux mint.  It does not show up as a usb device on the desktop, you have to go into sound setting and change the sound card, it will show up there.


----------



## scottie4442

sorry, the last post should have been about Ubuntu and the e17.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





adam2211 said:


> How does this compare to the E07K?


 
   
  Correct me if I'm wrong, y'all (since I don't own a E07K), but another thing the E17 has is the "EQ section" - bass and treble controls, and a few more features in the menu. My impression has been the 07 has on/off, bass on/off perhaps, but that's about it. 
   
  I love the E17 - it's really great, versatile, and an excellent value.


----------



## bowei006

solserenade said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, y'all (since I don't own a E07K), but another thing the E17 has is the "EQ section" - bass and treble controls, and a few more features in the menu. My impression has been the 07 has on/off, bass on/off perhaps, but that's about it.
> 
> I love the E17 - it's really great, versatile, and an excellent value.


The ANDES also features the EQ options.

What the E17 can do the E07K can also do. All except S/PDIF input in terms of features.

However they are not the same.


----------



## solserenade

I stand corrected .. thanks - I confused it with the most basic (very small) one ... cannot remember the numbers.


----------



## bowei006

solserenade said:


> I stand corrected .. thanks - I confused it with the most basic (very small) one ... cannot remember the numbers.


E7 

I mistyped them sometimes as well.


----------



## musicinmymind

Where to download dirver for E17..I am not able to find one in Fiio site.


----------



## bowei006

musicinmymind said:


> Where to download dirver for E17..I am not able to find one in Fiio site.


It's not a driver. It's an ASIO update or something


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks bowei, I was able to install and run successfully


----------



## bowei006

musicinmymind said:


> Thanks Panda, I was able to install and run successfully





Sure thing. I was on mobile so I wasn't able to really link you to the page. Sorry, but glad you found it.


----------



## boredandlazy

Just received my E17 today, and even plugged into my relatively low range Audio-Technica ATH-T400 heaphones playing lossy mp3's the upgrade over my laptop audio was awesome. 
  Also as I'd hoped the E17 doesn't have issues chopping off the front of sounds like the ASUS XONAR U3 does.


----------



## JSchwage

Just got mine today as well. Love this thing! Had an issue with the clicking sound at first but I've worked around that and I knew about it before I bought it. All in all a great little DAC/amp, although my little pouch also smelled like gasoline as others have mentioned. Yuck.


----------



## boredandlazy

I just smelled my pouch... 
  Don't smell gasoline on mine.


----------



## JSchwage

Quote: 





boredandlazy said:


> I just smelled my pouch...
> Don't smell gasoline on mine.


 
  Perhaps it was certain shipments of the E17 that were affected. I bought mine from SonicElectronix.


----------



## boredandlazy

Quote: 





jschwage said:


> Perhaps it was certain shipments of the E17 that were affected. I bought mine from SonicElectronix.


 
  I'm from Australia so that may be a possibility. Also, what is this clicking sound you mentioned? I haven't noticed anything like that thus far...


----------



## JSchwage

Quote: 





boredandlazy said:


> I'm from Australia so that may be a possibility. Also, what is this clicking sound you mentioned? I haven't noticed anything like that thus far...


 

 It's listed under the known issues on this page: http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e17
   
  Only had it happen once and haven't heard it since.


----------



## Mandala

Does anyone have any idea why when I use my E17's DAC from my Macbook via USB the bass rolls off tremendously? It sounds great with through the LOD of my iphone which I believe bypasses the E17's DAC. The bass/treble controls of the E17 work surprisingly well, so I'm able to dial in a nice sweet tone through my HD558 (not the best headphone, I'm aware), but I'd really prefer to leave the tone controls flat. Would SPDIF provide much better results?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mandala said:


> Does anyone have any idea why when I use my E17's DAC from my Macbook via USB the bass rolls off tremendously? It sounds great with through the LOD of my iphone which I believe bypasses the E17's DAC. The bass/treble controls of the E17 work surprisingly well, so I'm able to dial in a nice sweet tone through my HD558 (not the best headphone, I'm aware), but I'd really prefer to leave the tone controls flat. Would SPDIF provide much better results?


 
  tremendously?
   
  MBP are a bit bassier. That may be why, but not tremendously.
   
  LOD bypasses your iphone's amp. It then sends that signal from the iphones DAC directly to E17's amplifier.
   
  Probably not unless USB is what is causing some problems. You can try it out. 
   
  MBP's support optical output through the 3.5mm jack


----------



## m8o

No reply to any statement or question.  Just thought I'd mention.  I thought the E17 was such a bargain quality product, I bought another to sit on the Doc I bought for it too, to serve desktop duty.
  
  And yes, I too prefer the output from the E17 directly than the E09K.  But I got the dock for the convenience factor to take a digital signal from both a PC and CD transport at the same time, and can output to a headphone, or be a fixed preamp, or variable preamp, all for a bit over $200.  And be a convenient charging station.


----------



## Mandala

"Tremendously" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but I can tell you that through the LOD my tone controls on the E17 are set to flat and the sound is adequate, however through my MBP I would have to put the E17's bass on 8-10 to produce near the equivalent amount of bass (it's still short) , not that that's my goal, but it does demonstrate a significant roll-off.
   
  I was aware that the LOD only bypasses the iphone's amp; I just picked an awkward way of saying that by saying that the E17's DAC is bypassed.


----------



## bowei006

mandala said:


> "Tremendously" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but I can tell you that through the LOD my tone controls on the E17 are set to flat and the sound is adequate, however through my MBP I would have to put the E17's bass on 8-10 to produce near the equivalent amount of bass (it's still short) , not that that's my goal, but it does demonstrate a significant roll-off.
> 
> I was aware that the LOD only bypasses the iphone's amp; I just picked an awkward way of saying that by saying that the E17's DAC is bypassed.


That sounds weird.

Check itunes eq preferences. You may have an eq active you may not know about or accidentally set up. Its in preferences or right click on a song to find eq options in there


----------



## Mandala

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That sounds weird.
> 
> Check itunes eq preferences. You may have an eq active you may not know about or accidentally set up. Its in preferences or right click on a song to find eq options in there


 
  Nope. Itunes EQ is always off, but I checked my preferences anyway.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mandala said:


> Nope. Itunes EQ is always off, but I checked my preferences anyway.


 
  +8dB is a huge difference.
   
  Try different headphones or a different computer. Which one is the 'legit' sound of the track?
   
  Does this roll off also happen when you play and watch a youtube video song?


----------



## Stoney

Quote: 





mandala said:


> "Tremendously" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but I can tell you that through the LOD my tone controls on the E17 are set to flat and the sound is adequate, however through my MBP I would have to put the E17's bass on 8-10 to produce near the equivalent amount of bass (it's still short) , not that that's my goal, but it does demonstrate a significant roll-off.
> 
> I was aware that the LOD only bypasses the iphone's amp; I just picked an awkward way of saying that by saying that the E17's DAC is bypassed.


 
   The data from your MacBook Pro should be the same data from any computer.  I use my MBP to E17 DAC and it sound great... unless I've left the iTunes EQ on or some other SW setting somewhere.  
   
  Check the Audio MIDI Setup app.  For the USB output, set the bit rate and depth to that of your best data files in iTunes.  I have some 96k/24bit files, so that is what I use... it helped sound quality in other files as well.  
   
  I am using an optical cable from the "built-in output" but notice minimal difference from using the USB.  The MIDI setting made more difference.  
   
  The test you did with the iPhone and LOD tells us that the analog amp section is functioning OK.  
   
  QUESTION FOR ALL: Do the EQ settings in the E17 affect the analog section?  I figure they only affect the DAC section, but don't recall having tested that.


----------



## kimvictor

What do you guys think about E17 with UE IERM? Also, do you need a separate dock for E17 if I want to use it just as a DAC?


----------



## JSchwage

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> What do you guys think about E17 with UE IERM? Also, do you need a separate dock for E17 if I want to use it just as a DAC?


 
  Depends on what you're coming from? Are you using any type of DAC or amp right now? If you'd like to use the E17 just for the DAC feature you'll need to get the FiiO L7 which plugs into the dock port and has a micro-USB port and line out on the other side.


----------



## Mandala

Quote: 





stoney said:


> The data from your MacBook Pro should be the same data from any computer.  I use my MBP to E17 DAC and it sound great... unless I've left the iTunes EQ on or some other SW setting somewhere.


 
  So, right before work yesterday I did a quick sweep through my computer's software arsenal and uninstalled some audio processing software, mainly a plug in called Sound Flower which which works in conjunction with SRS Labs' Audio Essentials (formerly known as iWow), a program I didn't know at the time because I didn't have time to check out the results, but when I got home from work and listened through the E17 with the bass/treble controls flat the difference was astounding. Front to back soundstage had opened up, instrument separation was considerably better, and bass was ample in addition to being more accurate. I still haven't figured out how to uninstall the Audio Essentials software itself,  but I think I'm going to let it be since the improvement is already so noticeable.


----------



## TrollDragon

On OSX it's easy to uninstall, just drag the App to the trash...

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Mandala

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> On OSX it's easy to uninstall, just drag the App to the trash...
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


 

 Yeah, I'm fairly familiar with the process, I've been an Mac OS user since OS9, but after dragging it into the trash and emptying the trash it's still on my HD.


----------



## JSchwage

Quote: 





mandala said:


> Yeah, I'm fairly familiar with the process, I've been an Mac OS user since OS9, but after dragging it into the trash and emptying the trash it's still on my HD.


 
  Yeah uninstalling programs from OS X isn't nearly as streamlined as Windows still. Perhaps try AppZapper or a similar uninstaller program and see if it'll remove the extra leftover files for you. There's a bunch of free ones out there if you'd rather not pay for AppZapper.


----------



## Phono Groove

I just got the e17 not long ago.  Im listening with hd600 headphones on a marantz cd5001 cd player with the fiio e17 connected via a optical cable.  I've been listening for a few hours and I don't really hear the difference between the fiio and the marantz cd player.   I've been constantly switching back and forth from the marantz's headphone and the fiio to test out the sonic differences but I can't hardly make out any...


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





jschwage said:


> Depends on what you're coming from? Are you using any type of DAC or amp right now? If you'd like to use the E17 just for the DAC feature you'll need to get the FiiO L7 which plugs into the dock port and has a micro-USB port and line out on the other side.


 
  I'm just getting UE IERM, and its coming on the 25th. And I have schiit modi/magni. And an E7 for portable.


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





mandala said:


> Yeah, I'm fairly familiar with the process, I've been an Mac OS user since OS9, but after dragging it into the trash and emptying the trash it's still on my HD.


 
  Sorry didn't mean to offend, just hard to gauge ones skill level from a forum post.
   
  There is a kext involved, manually delete 'Soundflower.kext' from /System/Library/Extensions by following these instructions here,
  or just install it again and run the Uninstall script provided.


----------



## Chris J

kimvictor said:


> What do you guys think about E17 with UE IERM? Also, do you need a separate dock for E17 if I want to use it just as a DAC?




I have an E17 and an iBasso D12.

The iBasso D12 is quieter with my Shure SE-210 IEMs.
The E17 has a faint bzzzzzzzz.


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I have an E17 and an iBasso D12.
> 
> The iBasso D12 is quieter with my Shure SE-210 IEMs.
> The E17 has a faint bzzzzzzzz.


 
  Well, D12 cost twice as much! Is the faint bzzz or hissing bad?


----------



## Stoney

I have an E17 but no buzz.  Maybe something wrong?  
   
  On a tangential note, I noticed that the E7 was immune to iPhone RF noise but the E17 does pick some up.  Arrow too.


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





stoney said:


> I have an E17 but no buzz.  Maybe something wrong?
> 
> On a tangential note, I noticed that the E7 was immune to iPhone RF noise but the E17 does pick some up.  Arrow too.


 
  Yeah, i've read reviews saying that E17 is excellent at blocking EMI and have very low hissing. But just wanted to check.


----------



## jasonb

I've never heard any hissing or EMI (from my CDMA iPhone 4) on my E17.
  Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> Yeah, i've read reviews saying that E17 is excellent at blocking EMI and have very low hissing. But just wanted to check.


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I've never heard any hissing or EMI (from my CDMA iPhone 4) on my E17.


 
  that's good to know. maybe i'll pull the trigger on it soon. E7 doesn't cut it for me.


----------



## bowei006

I had minute but noticeable EMI from the E17 when receiving calls while my GSM (att)iPhone 4S was attached


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> Well, D12 cost twice as much! Is the faint bzzz or hissing bad?


 
   
  Yeah, the D12 is approx. $285, so I would expect better out of the D12!
   
  I can only hear _*a very faint bzzzzz*_ when I use the Shure SE210, other than that, I never hear it with any other 'phones.
  I can hear the bzzzzz without a source plugged in.


----------



## JSchwage

Never had any issues with hissing with my E17 using my Sennheiser CX 500 IEMs or my HD 555's and HD 280 Pros.


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





jschwage said:


> Never had any issues with hissing with my E17 using my Sennheiser CX 500 IEMs or my HD 555's and HD 280 Pros.


 
  how does it power HD 555? Is E17 powerful?


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't know if I'd call it powerful but it has more than enough to power to move them at great volumes. You do get a lot more sound and volume when using as a DAC vs just an amp with the aux input. SPDIF input can really make the e17 sing!
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Hello everyone, first post on Head-Fi. Heaps of read on here and definitely having a great time looking at different equipment and opinions. I didn't see an intro section so I thought I'd dive right in. I currently have a DT880 Pro 250 with an E17 plugged to my laptop, I also get a use of the optical on the PS3 for games and Blu-Rays. I like listening to music and have decent gear but I'm not going to knit-pick at the sound. I'm satisfied with the sound I get with the Beyers and E17.
   
  I get my music from Spotify Premium (320KB/s) which is an awesome service I just got into. I'm a budget minded person when it comes to gear but look ahead for future purchases, part of the fun is researching equipment and reading opinions. So my question is, which route to take for the next upgrade? Would the E17 as a DAC using an LOD to a tube amp give me a nice upgrade on SQ? Or would going completely to a new DAC/AMP be the next step (thinking Matrix Cube or similar)? The latter would of course have me saving for a tube amp down the line and using the built in SS amp. I'm eyeing the La Figaro 336C for a tube amp, undecided if I want to do that next or the better DAC. Budget would be $300 but the closer to 200 the better. The DAC/AMP would need to have optical, usb, and line in. Digital format would be 176 or 192 at 24-bit, DTS/5.1 decoding would be nice but not a requirement. Output would be line out and headphone out.

 Any other suggestions for a nice upgrade to my current setup? I mostly listen to classical, alternative, indie, rock and electronic. Sometimes hip-hop and R&B. I like having clarity but not surgical, a nice tone that's pleasant to listen to. The Beyers with E17 provide a nice clarity and separation (at least compared to my old earbuds straight to the PC) but sometimes I listen to the classical music and think, this sounds good like a bistro/gourmet prepared dish but sometimes I wish it had a more home-cooked feel. Hence a tube amp.


----------



## bowei006

"Welcome to head fi! Sorry about your wallet!"

Using E17 to a desktop amp is only a good descision if you wish to also take the e17 on the go. Otherwise, a dedicated unit works better.

Dts decoding is more or less not featured on these units. Stereo is what dominates them. The units that so have that feaure are some gaming chipsets or recievers or other dedicted source components.

For the most part, its not needed. Why?

Home theatre features work with another unit that you can buy. This is for stereo audio.

FiiO devices are good buys if you use all their features.

However if you are a desktop person(as you mentioned tubes) then 

Maverick
Matrix
Nuforce
Arcam
Audio gd
Schiit
Audinist
Audioengine

Are some popular companies that have models that fit your needs.

I havent heard AkM dac yet but Cirrus Logic flagship line and AKM are usually what are liked for those genres. 

If you only need a DAC. Then you get many choices. As you want a tube amp. You dont need a dac and amp combined system. This allows you to just shop for a dac with those features you want.

The Maverick D2 and Audioengine Dac only systems use popular dacs for what you want.

The CS4398(cirrus logic) sounds more "natural" than the WM874x chips for your genres.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Hello 006, thanks for the reply and tips! Right now I'm looking to upgrade just one piece of my line-up. I plan on keeping the E17 for the portability but the would like a desktop rig to liven things up a bit. If I had the funds, I'd get it all at one time but I don't.

 So I'm wondering which would be a good direction for me. A) Getting a better DAC with built in AMP strictly for desktop use or B) Sticking with the E17 for now as a DAC and using an LOD to a tube amp. I'm really looking for what's going to give me the best bang for the buck SQ-wise. If I go with B, I'd look into getting a desktop DAC in the future.
   
  *edit: I will keep the Cirrus Logic chipset if/when I shop for a DAC


----------



## bowei006

As of right now as you have alpen already. Getting the amp is fine.

The wm8740 in the alpen is fine.

First time ive been called double 0 6 
Check my signature


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Check my signature


 
  OMG you have our idiot Prime Minister in your sig....


----------



## bowei006

trolldragon said:


> OMG you have our idiot Prime Minister in your sig.... :eek:


Wait what? What link


----------



## TrollDragon

Panda Link. Dude on the left is our DB PM Steven Harper

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bowei006

trolldragon said:


> Panda Link. Dude on the left is our DB PM Steven Harper
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


Haha. Oh i see. 
Nice to meet you Steven Harper! Im panda


----------



## kimvictor

I just noticed that AK100, costing $700 uses the same dac as alpen.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> I just noticed that AK100, costing $700 uses the same dac as alpen.


 
  Implementation of it, pairing and etc etc is a bit more important.
   
  Sabre and Cirrus Logic DAC's use too much power or have too high of an output. These make them hard to implement with long battery life etc etc into PMP's.


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Implementation of it, pairing and etc etc is a bit more important.
> 
> Sabre and Cirrus Logic DAC's use too much power or have too high of an output. These make them hard to implement with long battery life etc etc into PMP's.


 
  So is the ak100 going to sound better than e17 with usb input?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> So is the ak100 going to sound better than e17 with usb input?


 
  I have never heard it.
   
  implementation, circuits, amp section and how they implemented that etc etc.
   
  I would *expect *a $1000 device to sound better than the E17 but hey, who knows. There are stuff that are $50k+ in the audio world.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> As of right now as you have alpen already. Getting the amp is fine.
> 
> The wm8740 in the alpen is fine.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey man, I call you 006 all the time!
   
  BTW, I keep hearing bad things about the Maverick line......


----------



## jasonb

So with my Q701 the +6db gain seems to work better, but for my T50rp, the +12db gain sounds better. Even after adjusting the volume to compensate. Interesting I must say...
   
  The Q701 also sounds better with a +2db bass boost, and the T50rp sounds better with the bass at 0 with a +2db treble boost. 
   
  I love how versatile this little amp is.


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> Hey man, I call you 006 all the time!
> 
> BTW, I keep hearing bad things about the Maverick line......:confused_face_2:


My friend has the tube magic D1 and says that his and others have trouble with spdif and getting 192.


----------



## Chris J

jasonb said:


> So with my Q701 the +6db gain seems to work better, but for my T50rp, the +12db gain sounds better. Even after adjusting the volume to compensate. Interesting I must say...
> 
> The Q701 also sounds better with a +2db bass boost, and the T50rp sounds better with the bass at 0 with a +2db treble boost.
> 
> I love how versatile this little amp is.




Interesting.
If I adjust volume to compensate for gain, I really can't hear the difference between various gains on the E17.
But it IS a nice amp.


----------



## rodpp

I bought one E17 and one E09K last Sunday and I can't manage to charge the E17.
   
  Either using USB charger or E09K dock, the red light around the power button only stay flashing.
   
  When connected with the USB charger or the E09K dock it works great, but if I disconnect it from the power source it turns off.
   
  I tried the reset button and the menu "Default Set" and the problem continues.
   
  Is there a procedure os test to try before exchange the amplifier?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rodpp said:


> I bought one E17 and one E09K last Sunday and I can't manage to charge the E17.
> 
> Either using USB charger or E09K dock, the red light around the power button only stay flashing.
> 
> ...


 
  Do you have a wall USB charger? Like an iPhone or iPad one?
   
  Go to an outlet that is secure and has nothing besides plugged in. Plug in the wall charger and plug the E17 into it with the USB cable.
   
  Try that.


----------



## rodpp

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Do you have a wall USB charger? Like an iPhone or iPad one?
> 
> Go to an outlet that is secure and has nothing besides plugged in. Plug in the wall charger and plug the E17 into it with the USB cable.
> 
> Try that.


 

 Thank you for the answer.
   
  I already tried with a iPhone charger, a Galaxy S3 charger, a charger bougth together with the E17 in the BH Photo Video store. And tried in diferent outlets. Unfortunatelly it does not work.


----------



## bowei006

And the red light keeps flashing?

Are you able to easily return it? If so. Please do. As in you just bought it


----------



## rodpp

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> And the red light keeps flashing?
> 
> Are you able to easily return it? If so. Please do. As in you just bought it


 
  Yes, the red light keeps flashing.
   
  It will not be easy to return it. I am in Brazil and the BH Photo Video (where I bought it) only cover shipping costs inside USA. I arrived from New York yesterday.
   
The problem is not only the shipping costs, but the customs fees and the time without the amplifier... really bad!


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





rodpp said:


> Yes, the red light keeps flashing.
> 
> It will not be easy to return it. I am in Brazil and the BH Photo Video (where I bought it) only cover shipping costs inside USA. I arrived from New York yesterday.
> 
> The problem is not only the shipping costs, but the customs fees and the time without the amplifier... really bad!


 
   
  Welcome to the wonderful world of RMA's... I fired an Audioengine D1 back to B&H for credit, I had to pay for the shipping back and it took 3 weeks, but that was just after Christmas though.
   
  Have you tried the RESET hole on the top of the unit? Push it with a pin, Try it powered up, powered off & just on a charger etc... Just a thought that it might reset the charging unit as well.
   
  The hold button is not switched down is it?
   
  My power light is solid red when charging and off...
   
  Contact FiiO support for any suggestions they might have as well.
  Good luck!


----------



## rodpp

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of RMA's... I fired an Audioengine D1 back to B&H for credit, I had to pay for the shipping back and it took 3 weeks, but that was just after Christmas though.
> 
> Have you tried the RESET hole on the top of the unit? Push it with a pin, Try it powered up, powered off & just on a charger etc... Just a thought that it might reset the charging unit as well.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, unfortunately I am in the RMA world now.
   
  I tried every kind of Reset and it do not work.
   
  I contacted the FiiO support and the answer was to procced with the exchange. And they ask me to inform the BH Photo Video to cover the freight, according with the FiiO's after-sale policy.
   
  Until now, both BH and FiiO are very kind and it seems that I will not have any problem with the exchange, except the time without the amplifier.
   
  Thank you all!


----------



## conroy

Hey guys, recently got myself an e17, whenever i try to set the audio format to 96KHz/24bit i get a BSOD. Has anyone else had this issue? and how should i go about fixing it?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





rodpp said:


> Yes, unfortunately I am in the RMA world now.
> 
> I tried every kind of Reset and it do not work.
> 
> ...


 
  Hopefully BH do cover the freight
   
  Wish you best of luck
   
   
  Quote: 





conroy said:


> Hey guys, recently got myself an e17, whenever i try to set the audio format to 96KHz/24bit i get a BSOD. Has anyone else had this issue? and how should i go about fixing it?


 
  1: Does the device work as 'usual' on 44.1 etc?
  2. What music player are you using? Foobar/MediaMonkey/iTunes?
   
  A BSOD is caused most likely from your computers Chipset Southbridge or Audio Chipset. If it's USB, it may be the southbride, if it's S/PDIF, it could be the audio one. 
   
  If you know how, you can update drivers.


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> Hopefully BH do cover the freight
> 
> Wish you best of luck
> 
> ...




Man, you are just a bag of FiiO knowledge!
If you don't know it, it probably isn't worth knowing!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Man, you are just a bag of FiiO knowledge!
> If you don't know it, it probably isn't worth knowing!


 
  It just accumulated?
   
  I answer questions in the regular forums sometimes(used to be alot) and unsurprisingly, the majoity of questions were on FiiO.
   
  I don't actually know all that much about FiiO deep tech everything. I don't remember what all the light symbol flashings mean, where stuff is located etc etc.
   
  Most questions are really just general so its not too bad?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> It just accumulated?
> 
> I answer questions in the regular forums sometimes(used to be alot) and unsurprisingly, the majoity of questions were on FiiO.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You don't know where stuff is located?
  I have an E17, can you tell me where the volume control is?


----------



## TrollDragon

Panda-sama is secret FiiO agent man. Fighting the good fight! 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Panda-sama is secret FiiO agent man. Fighting the good fight!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Obviously!
  This is why he is 006!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





chris j said:


> You don't know where stuff is located?
> I have an E17, can you tell me where the volume control is?


 
  They change their site and file availbility a lot
   
  I know they had manuals for every product on their site, but not sure where to tell users to go now.
   
  I used to be able to provide near step by step steps from memory.
   
  Obviously.
   
  Hold the E17 in your hand so that the E17 or Alpen silkscreen is facing your palm. The OLED screen will be in the top facing you. Now feel around the screen and move thy thumb to the right side. Bingo.
  Quote: 





chris j said:


> Obviously!
> This is why he is 006!


 

   
  But seriously no, I just like to help people out.


----------



## DRE DAY

Hey I bought both the e17 & e09k the other day. Suddenly today the e17 stopped working & turned off now the screen is always on when plugged in via USB it dock of e09k but i can't use any of the buttons any can not play music with it. Also I haven't been able to charge the e17 since purchase either, any advice?
Thanks.


----------



## bowei006

dre day said:


> Hey I bought both the e17 & e09k the other day. Suddenly today the e17 stopped working & turned off now the screen is always on when plugged in via USB it dock of e09k but i can't use any of the buttons any can not play music with it. Also I haven't been able to charge the e17 since purchase either, any advice?
> Thanks.



 
 There is a 'reset' switch on the E17 Please press it Please use a USB wall charger and attempt to charge it that way


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





rodpp said:


> Yes, unfortunately I am in the RMA world now.
> 
> I tried every kind of Reset and it do not work.
> 
> ...


 
   
  good to hear that, and hope our user can buy from a local dealer if there have. and don't worry about the warranty we will try our best to make our customer happy.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> They change their site and file availbility a lot
> 
> I know they had manuals for every product on their site, but not sure where to tell users to go now.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not too sure if you can help me find the closest beer store?


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Not too sure if you can help me find the closest beer store?


 
http://us.justdial.com/WA/Spokane/Para_dice_Espresso/near_Best_Rd,boone_Ave/C2D0158137-U3Bva2FuZSxXQSBQYXJhZGljZSBFc3ByZXNzbw==/map


----------



## bowei006

chris j said:


> Not too sure if you can help me find the closest beer store?



 
 http://bit.ly/YVmvn2 Got it


----------



## Chris J

bowei006 said:


> http://bit.ly/YVmvn2Got it




Thanks!

I found it!
It's Miller time!

BTW, I don't live in Spokane and I wasn't looking for no stinking espresso bar! :mad:


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Meh... it was the first suggestion Google came up with for "Para-Dice" & "Beer" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Just Schiit's and Giggles...


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Meh... it was the first suggestion Google came up with for "Para-Dice" & "Beer"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Real men drink beer!
  And they buy it at "The Beer Store" or the "LCBO".


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Real men drink beer!
> And they buy it at "The Beer Store" or the "LCBO".


 
  LOL that's right,,, I'ts been YEARS since I've been in The Beer Store or the LCBO (My Favorite) for that matter... It's now just the NSLC that I occasionallly peruse for the Appletons or Patrón. There are so few of us Canuck's here.


----------



## DRE DAY

bowei006 said:


> There is a 'reset' switch on the E17Please press itPlease use a USB wall charger and attempt to charge it that way



Thanks saved me having to send it back!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





dre day said:


> Thanks saved me having to send it back!


 
  I'll take it that it worked?
   
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Didn't see you were a new member before as I was on mobile(which explains why my sentences are grouped up and badly puncuated).
   
  Hope you like it here.


----------



## Chris J

trolldragon said:


> LOL that's right,,, I'ts been YEARS since I've been in The Beer Store or the LCBO (My Favorite) for that matter... It's now just the NSLC that I occasionallly peruse for the Appletons or Patrón. There are so few of us Canuck's here.




The Beer Store!

Ya gotta love that name!

And to get us back on topic:
One thing I like about the E17 is that it is nice and portable, I can bring my iPod out on my deck with an E17, and pair of headphones and a beer.......all in one trip!


----------



## zachary80

Received a new E17 Monday and so far, I am pretty impressed with it. Sound quality is good (can't say any more without listening longer), and I love the flexibility -- I'm using it mostly to replace my Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro which was adequate enough for usb->optical, and also for use with my secondary devices that only have digital out. I just wish it had a line-out that was built into the device like the line-in is. So far I've used it with Sony mdr7509's and Sennheiser hd580's. To my surprise, the hd580's had plenty of volume, even at the lowest gain setting (+0db) !!! As far as my basic understanding goes, it is best to use the minimum gain that gives adequate volume on a given amplifier, but headphones like the hd580's may benefit from devices that are inherently more powerful, such as the E09k which I was considering adding for my desktop computer. Can anyone clarify this?


----------



## Ashade

Nevermind. (EDIT)


----------



## bowei006

As long as enough amps and volts are being delivered to the headphone in the first place. You are fine with that amp and dont "require" a more powerful one.

What you probably mean is a better one.

Power does not equal sound quality.

Also, for headphones of the range you are using. Its not too wise to spend on a dac and amp more than half the cost of the headphone right now.

That changes once you get to $300 and above though.
But in reality, it only changes once you hit that point because it shows that you are serious about auio an want those performance squeezed out of it.


----------



## Allucid

chris j said:


> allucid said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks.
> ...







madelynn said:


> allucid said:
> 
> 
> > Hello Fiio.
> ...



Sent it back to them, cost me 17 bucks postage, repair is free. 

Support staff were more than kind, better than any support staff I've experienced, ever. 

In regards to the person who broke it, I can't do jack all about it. I hope my E17 gets to china and avoids the earthquakes.


----------



## Bigyoman

Something to stray away from the issues 
   
  I've gotten my E17 back in May 2012 and the 1 Year birthday for my amp (first power on May 28th 2012 at 5:00PM PST). I couldn't be more satisfied with this piece of gear from Fiio. For the build quality reaching it's 1 year birthday, everything is intact EXCEPT my golden AUX IN port at the bottom (but it still works!). Only signs of paint scratch are present on the sides of the amp itself, but nothing to major. I'd upload pictures directly to here but my internet + HeadFi's Servers are not nice to each other. And I'm not sure about the linking policy on the forums :3
   
  I would have sent her in for repairs, but living in a country where the postal service steals everything that looks good, there is no chance whatsoever of getting the help, but support staff has been very helpful, making sure I got what I could, without sending her in. 
   
  I use the amp as my primary device considering my sound card isn't the best nor can it power 3 of my headphones efficiently 
   
  My ears a no longer used to hearing "sound" in general without the amp. It actually makes me cringe to know that my (Koss PortaPros, Monoprice Headphones, HD 280s, HD 380s, Beyerdynamic T1, HifiMan HE-500's) + (E17) all sound better than the best movie theater in the city and pretty much 95% better than the rest of the country.
   
  Overall, brilliant amp  
   
   
  Misc Info
  Firmware Version: 00LC11EN
  Runtime: 99 Days 23 Hours 43 minutes
   
  P.S. Not really a new member. Never really bothered to make a account since either my problems were answered already or were asked/answered within 1-2 days of my problem. Oh yeah and Former Resident of Southern California, Currently a Student in Northern Philippines


----------



## bowei006

Nice impressions.
   
  You may not be new new, but this is still your first post so.
   
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"


----------



## Bigyoman

Quote: 





bigyoman said:


> Everything is intact EXCEPT my golden AUX IN port at the bottom (but it still works!). Only signs of paint scratch are present on the sides of the amp itself, but nothing too major.


 
   
  One more thing, that I just discovered, if you leave a current setting for too long it will burn x) its not obvious at all, only obvious when you use the menu and have the highlight on the center middle item, mine says USB/OPT 88 underneath the highlighted item (overlay both USB and OPT together) I guess I should use the hold more often.
   
  That's all.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> Does anyone know what is System Set (default set) means?


 
  This resets the device to factory settings.
   
  This is one of two ways to 'reset' the E17.
   
  Nothing big really as the E17 doesn't really hold much data that can't be reprogrammed in a minute or two.


----------



## jj69

Just got my E17, so forgive the noob question.  I'm using the USB connection to a Windows 7 laptop.  I have the E17 "SPDIF" setting as the "Default Device" in Windows. 
   
  While I'm getting great audio through the E17 when playing files in WinAmp, when I try to play a file in Adobe Audition 3.0, the audio will only come out of the computer speakers.  The default device is still set for SPDIF. 
   
  I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.  Did I miss a simple setting?


----------



## TrollDragon

Possibly with Adobe like in Foobar2K you have an option to select the output device within the program as well.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bowei006

jj69 said:


> Just got my E17, so forgive the noob question.  I'm using the USB connection to a Windows 7 laptop.  I have the E17 "SPDIF" setting as the "Default Device" in Windows.
> 
> While I'm getting great audio through the E17 when playing files in WinAmp, when I try to play a file in Adobe Audition 3.0, the audio will only come out of the computer speakers.  The default device is still set for SPDIF.
> 
> I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.  Did I miss a simple setting?


Dont mind it saying spdif even if its usb. It will use that name often.

In adobe, look under settings for audio and see what your default playback device is set to and change it to the one you want. It may use something like wasapi or asio that lets you choose default output yourself without windows interfeeeing

So basically my guess is that it also has an audio default selector.


----------



## KT66

Just got my E17, birthday present from work! thanks boss
   
  just plugged it into my win7 laptop, via Foobar, Wasapi Push drivers,
  shows on Laptop as SPDIF Interface USB audio device
   
  Using USB (optical cable on the way) and despite setting Foobar and playback devices to 24/96
  when I play 24/96 Flacs, they show as 16/48 on the E17?
   
  any clues?
   
  ps I hope it gets better with burn in , first impressions are a bit closed in


----------



## DemonFox

kt66 said:


> Just got my E17, birthday present from work! thanks boss
> 
> just plugged it into my win7 laptop, via Foobar, Wasapi Push drivers,
> shows on Laptop as SPDIF Interface USB audio device
> ...




Yes. Easy answer. You have to change the settings Sotheby's E17 will play at that level. Go back to the sound settings where you see it show the USB SPDIF input. Go into its setting click on advanced and select the setting of 24bit 96khz and that'll enable it to play those higher quality files. 

See if that works


Thanks,


----------



## KT66

thanks - "Sothebys"?
   
  do you mean on my laptop?
  I have changed the "advanced" to 2 channel 24bit 96000 hz (studio quality) -the "Test does" work
  and plays as 24/96 - then I launch Foobar and anything I throw at it shows as 48k 16bit on the E17 screen
   
  Have now tried 320AAC. 16/44, 24/48 (beatles) and 24/96
  everything shows on Fiio as 16/48
   
  Edit -
  If in Foobar I change the output,device to DS :SPDIF Interface (Fiio USB DAC E-17)
  and *not* WASAPI then I get 24/96 appearing on the Fiio,
  Changing back to WASAPI gives me 16/48 back again
   
  So why doesn't WASAPI like the E17 then ? had no previous problems with E07k or Audiengine D1
   
  Edit I do have the latest WASAPI 3.2.3
   
  this is driving me nuts
   
  Another edit, tried it with Vista 32 bit desktop, works beautifully, no issues.
   
  Really no such thing as plug and play with this hobby is there!


----------



## TrollDragon

Hey KT66
   
  Let's check some settings here and see...
   
  Playback Devices:
  I made the custom icon for the E17/E09K,
  you's will probably look like the default Car Radio Icon.

  I also checked the Advanced Tab as well, mine was set to 24/96, but even when I set that to 16/44.1 (CD Quality).
  The E17 still switched over to 96K 24bit when playing a 24/96 track
   
  Foobar 2000 WASAPI:

   
  And Your Songs:

   
  The AC/DC track is 16/44.1 and my E17 shows 48K 16bit (it shows 48K instead of 44.1K as explained in the manual)
  The Metallica track is 24/96 and the E17 shows 96K 24bit
   
  That is pretty much all you have to set and check.
   
  Hope it helps!


----------



## KT66

thanks - I have tried all that - so far
   
  Acer Laptop Win 7 64 bit, only 16/48 if using WASAPI
  Dell Desktop Vista 32 bit - working perfectly
  Just tried my new work laptop Vaio Win 8 - only 16/44
  and when I tick Apply after telling the device in Advanced that it is 24/96 I now get
  "error unsupported format"    - interesting that is says it is being used by another device when it clearly is not


----------



## KT66

I unplug it , try a different USB 3.0 input and now its ok - even Wasapi shows at 24/96
   
  so just one Win 7 laptop it has problems with - I can live with that


----------



## TrollDragon

Very strange, you mention USB 3 ports, can you try is in a USB 2 port? The 3's are supposed to ne backward compatible but who knows... Also could you try it through a USB Hub if you have one, it would be good to know for the thread here as well.

Thanks!

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## KT66

USB 2.0 now works
   
  So only the Win 7 64 bit to get working
   
   I never have liked laptops, this is another reason why, just not consistant
   
  tim


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Hey KT66
> 
> Let's check some settings here and see...
> 
> ...


 
  Just got my E9 today and trying it out with my E17. Is there any way I can get that icon from you? It looks so sweet!


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





spidernhan said:


> Just got my E9 today and trying it out with my E17. Is there any way I can get that icon from you? It looks so sweet!


 

 You sure can, here is the post with the instructions.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/5655#post_9315009
   
  Here is the icon file
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29361323/E17-E09K.ico
  (right click and save target or save link as etc...)


----------



## SpiderNhan

Thanks!


----------



## KT66

What I don't get is that Fiio pack lots of lovely accessories in the box, but the one
  thing you really need to hear the E17 at it's best, an optical cable. is not included.
   
  Audioengine also annoyingly do this.
   
  I find the range and choices of Opitcal/Toslink/SDIF the most confusing thing about this hobby
  so to include a simple starter cable would be really welcome. Everyone would already
  have a USB cable.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kt66 said:


> What I don't get is that Fiio pack lots of lovely accessories in the box, but the one
> thing you really need to hear the E17 at it's best, an optical cable. is not included.
> 
> Audioengine also annoyingly do this.
> ...


 
  They have a specifically designed S/PDIF Optical Toslink(mini toslink) cable for short interconnect purposes for sale on their store
http://fiio.net/products/index.aspx?ID=100000018364884&MenuID=105026009
   
  Many stores at first also bundled for free an optical cable.
   
  A cable would increase size of the package. Even a short one would not fit.
   
  And no, it wouldn't be easy
   
  Optical Toslink is very specific to what you want to do.
   
  Some appliaces are Toslink whilst others are mini toslink. And thus should FiiO include a 5 feet long something toslink cable into their package? It would increase the size of the box a lot already. Is an accessorie that isn't needed to be bundled but rather side purchased as needed and is up to the users own needs.


----------



## SpiderNhan

I've noticed my E17/E9 combo is very picky about which USB port I use it with. I have 6 USB 2.0 ports and 2 USB 3.0 and I've found that USB 3.0 doesn't work at all and depending on which devices I have plugged into which ports it will cut out, periodically get static and revert to normal, or not work entirely.

 For a while there I could only get it to work with my front-facing, left USB port and it required rebooting every time the sound would cut out. I have it plugged into my a rear USB port now and it seems to be functioning fine, but I won't know until it acts up again. I'm updating USB drivers as I type this and I hope it helps. Has anyone else experienced similar problems with USB slot finickiness?
   
  And I've never used the E7, but I've noticed that I can still use the treble/bass EQ, gain, and volume controls on my E17 while it is docked and the headphone out still works. Is this normal?


----------



## TrollDragon

Normal, unless you the line out bypass switch on the side down.

With it down, the E17's controls don't affect the E09K.

Yes the headphone jack works when docked as well.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





kt66 said:


> What I don't get is that Fiio pack lots of lovely accessories in the box, but the one
> thing you really need to hear the E17 at it's best, an optical cable. is not included.
> 
> Audioengine also annoyingly do this.
> ...


 
  Those FiiO L12 & L12S cables are very nice looking, I just might have to pick up a pair!
   
  But these are the ones I use at the moment, the short Hosa (2') is very thin and could be included in the E17 Package.
Hosa Technology Toslink 2'
Hosa Technology Premium ADAT Toslink 15'
   

   
Monoprice Audio Cables - Optical Toslink
  They have them all, just pick your poison.


----------



## KT66

Maybe it's my age but I find the whole digital cables thing too complicated.

Two adapters come in the e17 box , I have no idea what they are or how they are used.!


----------



## KT66

trolldragon said:


> Those FiiO L12 & L12S cables are very nice looking, I just might have to pick up a pair!
> 
> But these are the ones I use at the moment, the short Hosa (2') is very thin and could be included in the E17 Package.
> Hosa Technology Toslink 2'
> ...


That's exactly it the choice of terminations is vast. the chance of buying the wrong cable is too easy
Fiio can drop the USB and analogue cables provided , but.a short starter optical would be welcome

All I want is to connect it to a laptop or optical out of my desktop

I have had an Audioengine D1 for year, I have still only used USB as I just can't work out what digital cable to get, and I have rung Audioengine. and many big hifi dealers in the UK , no one can give me a simple answer


----------



## ssg1

I got my FiiO e17 today. Is it normal that headphone jack does not go all the way inside? All my headphones leave little space. 
   
  Picture included. HD 598 with that enormous adapter currently in e17.


----------



## ClieOS

Push it a little harder.


----------



## ssg1

Thanks, I pushed it really hard at some point, but it didn't go in. I was afraid to push it even harder, I have broke like 10 headphone jacks in the past... Well now it is in. Thanks!


----------



## rodpp

Quote: 





rodpp said:


> Yes, unfortunately I am in the RMA world now.
> 
> I tried every kind of Reset and it do not work.
> 
> ...


 
   



jamesfiio said:


> good to hear that, and hope our user can buy from a local dealer if there have. and don't worry about the warranty we will try our best to make our customer happy.


 
   
  After I sent the defective item to B&H and they received it ok, today I received a mail from B&H saying that it will be necessary to charge an additional US$288.00 in my credit card to send a new FiiO to my address in Brazil, related with shipping and tax costs...
   
  I am in contact with FiiO support to see what can I do.
   
  Very very bad!!!


----------



## TrollDragon

That is insane, please keep us posted as to how you make out.

And even though FiiO is an Excellent company and will get your problem sorted out. I can see how this would make someone not want to go through this kind of hassle with a Chinese product in terms of warranty.

Warranties are only as good as how easy it is to get a repair or replacement at minimal cost to both parties.

I won a Corsair SP2500 2.1 speaker system, they had a problem with the control pod screens going blank. Corsair wanted some of the first owners with the problem to ship back the whole system at the owners cost. This is a 30kg speaker system... Then they just wanted the control pod's only after quite a few systems were taken back to the retailer for full refund...

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## JamesFiiO

Quote: 





rodpp said:


> After I sent the defective item to B&H and they received it ok, today I received a mail from B&H saying that it will be necessary to charge an additional US$288.00 in my credit card to send a new FiiO to my address in Brazil, related with shipping and tax costs...
> I am in contact with FiiO support to see what can I do. Very very bad!!!


 
   
  1, We will have more dealer around the world includes Brazil soon . and hope everyone buy FiiO from local dealer.
   
  2, We will send a new E17 to you directly from China and all for free, but it is not a common solution for everyone , please understand we can provide such service to everyone.
   
  3, As we known , the Brazil Gov will charge a very high tax that is why B&H has to charge you a lots of money.
   
  For more information, please check where to buy on our website www.fiio.net. and we have more sales agents in the pass months. please have a look at .http://fiio.com.cn/news/index.aspx?ID=100000058152514 [size=22pt]Updating of FiiO New Authorized Agents[/size]


----------



## JamesFiiO

to Dropp,
   
  we will use hong kong post office service to send you the new E17 , without package, cable, so we can put it into an envelop, it may take 15 - 20 working days,


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


>


 
  If I connect a Fiio E17 to an ipod/ipod touch/iphone can I see what bit rates it is outputting via LOD?
   
  Or iphone>Fostex hp_p1>line out>mini to mini>fiio E17>(headphones).....just to check bitrate output.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> If I connect a Fiio E17 to an ipod/ipod touch/iphone can I see what bit rates it is outputting via LOD?
> 
> Or iphone>Fostex hp_p1>line out>mini to mini>fiio E17>(headphones).....just to check bitrate output.


 
   
  Analog signal doesn't have bitrate / bitdepth to talk about.


----------



## blackstone

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> 1, We will have more dealer around the world includes Brazil soon . and hope everyone buy FiiO from local dealer.
> 
> 2, We will send a new E17 to you directly from China and all for free, but it is not a common solution for everyone , please understand we can provide such service to everyone.
> 
> ...


 
  brasil will charge tax of 40% of the amount they think the item costs in taxes.  makes it impossible to buy anything internationally.  partly due to greed and partly to protect locla companies which is insane when there is no brasilian alternative in many cases


----------



## rodpp

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> to Dropp,
> 
> we will use hong kong post office service to send you the new E17 , without package, cable, so we can put it into an envelop, it may take 15 - 20 working days,


 
   
   
  Hi JamesFiiO,
   
  As I answered to FiiO Marketing Team today, I sent all cables and accessories to B&H as requested for the exchange.
   
  So I will need the amplifier with all accessories.
   
   
*And to be clear to everyone, until now the FiiO support was excellent. Every contact was prompt answered and always favorable to me.*
   
*Congratulations to the FiiO after-sale support.*
   
  Best Regards,
  Rodrigo.


----------



## avens

Now that there's a fiio representative on this thread, are there any plans on releasing a firmware update for the e17?
   
  A good improvement that can be done that way is adding an option to turn off the screen and power led, while the device remains on. That would be quite an improvement, considering it saves battery life (short and long term) and the screen itself is annoying while on top of the e09k.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





avens said:


> Now that there's a fiio representative on this thread, are there any plans on releasing a firmware update for the e17?
> 
> A good improvement that can be done that way is adding an option to turn off the screen and power led, while the device remains on.


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
   
  James(the CEO and representative you are talking about) is often on HF checking these threads for problems. Which is quite awesome of him.
   
  There has never been an actual firmware update for the E17. The only one released would be an ASIO update and that wouldn't even be an update to the E17 itself.
   
  If there was an update, it would most likely have to be installed in factory as there isn't really an input method for changing the ROM on the E17. 
   
  This is what I think. It could be different. This is just plain conjecture on my part with my knowledge of how this stuff works.


----------



## TrollDragon

Mmmmmmm conjecture... 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## SpiderNhan

Using the E17/E9 combo I get strange bouts of staticky sound, distortion and sometimes just plain electronic noise when I have Winamp or a video playing from either a media player or YouTube for a long period of time. Closing Winamp/Media Player Classic/Chrome and reopening the application usually resolves this, but it's rather annoying. I never experienced this while using the E17 as a standalone unit. Is there a driver fix or update/optimization I do to stop this from happening?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I don't see how docking the E17 onto the E9 can disrupt Windows operation to introduce jitters. The E9 is just a straight amp and docking. Are you sure your USB aren't powering down from when you're watching videos? When your system goes into idle from lack of input (mouse or kb), the USB go into energy saving. Go to your power options and disable your USB power saving if you haven't done so already. As a matter of fact, turn your power options to performance and disable any power saving (hard drive powerdown, sleep, hibernate, usb power, etc).


----------



## SpiderNhan

soundsgoodtome said:


> I don't see how docking the E17 onto the E9 can disrupt Windows operation to introduce jitters. The E9 is just a straight amp and docking. Are you sure your USB aren't powering down from when you're watching videos? When your system goes into idle from lack of input (mouse or kb), the USB go into energy saving. Go to your power options and disable your USB power saving if you haven't done so already. As a matter of fact, turn your power options to performance and disable any power saving (hard drive powerdown, sleep, hibernate, usb power, etc).



Thanks! I'll give that a try when I get home. I have noticed that the E17 doesn't play well with certain USB ports and it took a lot of trial and error to find one that didn't cut out after a few minutes of use. Now I'm tackling this problem.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Good luck and check back in if that helps you out! My DAC would do the same thing (not an E17) because of the power-saving mode. Are you on a laptop or desktop?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Quote: 





spidernhan said:


> to find one that didn't cut out after a few minutes of use. Now I'm tackling this problem.


 

 Any DAC regardless of make will cut out if your USB powers down. Not the E17s fault, although some devices are more sensitive than other in the driver side. There are also a few more tweaks you can do if that doesn't work out for you.


----------



## SpiderNhan

soundsgoodtome said:


> Good luck and check back in if that helps you out! My DAC would do the same thing (not an E17) because of the power-saving mode. Are you on a laptop or desktop?



It's a desktop. 850 watt power supply, Gigabyte mobo, Core i7 2600K, running Windows 7 64-bit.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Analog signal doesn't have bitrate / bitdepth to talk about.


 
  thanks for the reply.
   
  what if i went
  fostex>optical>e17?


----------



## TrollDragon

That would show the bit rate, but remember that the E17 only show's 16/48, 24/96 or 24/192 on the screen.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kimvictor

Are there going to any updates to E17, like what fiio did with E7? It makes sense considering the X3 will be released soon and it will sound equal or better than E17.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> Are there going to any updates to E17, like what fiio did with E7? It makes sense considering the X3 will be released soon and it will sound equal or better than E17.


 
  It may sound similar and or maybe better. But each has their own purpose.
   
  The E17 is $139 USD whilst the X3 will be $200
   
  The E17 can be used as a computer DAC and amp and dock set. And also usage for other audio compoentns that have optical out.
   
  Whilst the X3 can't. It's just a DAP with coaxial and line out capabilities.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> That would show the bit rate, but remember that the E17 only show's 16/48, 24/96 or 24/192 on the screen.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


 
  no 24/48? that would seal the deal.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> Are there going to any updates to E17, like what fiio did with E7? It makes sense considering the X3 will be released soon and it will sound equal or better than E17.


 
  There won't be an E17 update this year. But there will be a higher end model that supersedes E17 in the line-up by the end of the year. It is called the E19.
   
  Quote: 





expatinjapan said:


> no 24/48? that would seal the deal.


 
  It will play, but won't show up on the screen.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





clieos said:


> There won't be an E17 update this year. But there will be a higher end model that supersedes E17 in the line-up by the end of the year. It is called the E19.
> 
> It will play, but won't show up on the screen.


 
  So there will be an E18 and an E19 this year? What will be better about both compared to the E17?
   
  I still love my little E17. I've had it since October, and I am still very happy with it. It works very well with both my Q701 and my modded Fostex T50rp.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> So there will be an E18 and an E19 this year? What will be better about both compared to the E17?


 
   
  E18 is designed as USB DAC for Android smartphone. E19 is said to be even better than E17, but there isn't much other detail so far.


----------



## jasonb

I guess I'll stay tuned. I really like my E17, but I'd take an upgrade eventually. Hopefully it's an E17 with E12 type power. 
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> E18 is designed as USB DAC for Android smartphone. E19 is said to be even better than E17, but there isn't much other detail so far.


----------



## SpiderNhan

I'm eagerly awaiting more info about the E18. I love my E17, but docking and undocking it from the E9 every time I leave is a minor hassle. I also don't find the connector between the two because it feels super flimsy.
   
   
  Quote: 





soundsgoodtome said:


> Any DAC regardless of make will cut out if your USB powers down. Not the E17s fault, although some devices are more sensitive than other in the driver side. There are also a few more tweaks you can do if that doesn't work out for you.


 
   
  I went into my power settings and did as you said. So far it seems okay, but I'll let you know if the problem persists or not. Thanks for the help!


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





spidernhan said:


> I'm eagerly awaiting more info about the E18. I love my E17, but docking and undocking it from the E9 every time I leave is a minor hassle. I also don't find the connector between the two because it feels super flimsy.


 
  Here is how to get rid of a that sloppy feel when docking the E17.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/5610#post_9268523


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Here is how to get rid of a that sloppy feel when docking the E17.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/5610#post_9268523


 
  Thanks for the mod, TrollDragon. I unfortunately threw away the strips that held the rubber feet.
   
  And thanks again for telling me about the USB power settings, Soundsgoodtome. I haven't had any problems since I changed it.


----------



## Rayzilla

Quote: 





avens said:


> ...
> A good improvement that can be done that way is adding an option to turn off the screen and power led, while the device remains on. That would be quite an improvement, considering it saves battery life (short and long term) and the screen itself is annoying while on top of the e09k.


 
  Not sure if this has been mentioned before but you can try switching the "Hold" button. It should have a similar result to what you are asking for.


----------



## Rayzilla

Oh, but not sure about my suggestion if it is being used with the E09K. Sorry.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Good to hear! Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





spidernhan said:


> And thanks again for telling me about the USB power settings, Soundsgoodtome. I haven't had any problems since I changed it.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Doh! YouTube just crapped out on me. Had to close down Chrome and reload. So the problem is still there, but it's less persistent than before. Is there anything else I should try?


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





rayzilla said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned before but you can try switching the "Hold" button. It should have a similar result to what you are asking for.


 

 The only problem with the Hold Button, which is a great idea BTW, is that if you shut off the E09K the E17 will not turn off with the Hold Button switched down.
   
  No biggie just flip the Hold Button up before you turn the unit off.


----------



## marcus49371

so is the e17 a considerable upgrade (simply comparing theSQ) when compared with the e10?


----------



## joker97

my E17, ever since I bought it, does not hold charge for longer than a few days (about close to a week). is this normal?
   
  if I charge it to a decent say full bars on the display and leave it for a week it will say bye bye when it turns on and I have to charge for a good 10-15 mins before it can even turn on.
   
  is this normal?


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





joker97 said:


> my E17, ever since I bought it, does not hold charge for longer than a few days (about close to a week). is this normal?
> 
> if I charge it to a decent say full bars on the display and leave it for a week it will say bye bye when it turns on and I have to charge for a good 10-15 mins before it can even turn on.
> 
> is this normal?


 
  Battery life for E17 is 10-15 hours. So it's normal if it doesn't last a week. Also, E7 also takes few mins of charge before you can turn on, so I don't think you have a defective one. It's normal.


----------



## bowei006

joker97 said:


> my E17, ever since I bought it, does not hold charge for longer than a few days (about close to a week). is this normal?
> 
> if I charge it to a decent say full bars on the display and leave it for a week it will say bye bye when it turns on and I have to charge for a good 10-15 mins before it can even turn on.
> 
> is this normal?


Its normal from what I can tell.

The same thing with not being able to open for a while after it said "bye" is common on many devices like iphones.

Yep. A few days depending on usage. As said above. Igot around 12-14 hours with it. Which basically was a few days per charge


----------



## avens

Quote: 





rayzilla said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned before but you can try switching the "Hold" button. It should have a similar result to what you are asking for.


 
   
  Tried that and it works, as it turns off the screen (though not the led). Gotta read that instruction manual first.
   
  It does introduce the small annoyance TrollDragon wrote about and I didn't try it with headphones, so no idea if the device is affected somehow.


----------



## visanj

@James-FIIO
   
  Please do something about Indian dealership, I want to buy one more E17 but they are not responding properly
   
  http://www.proaudiohome.com/
   
  This is the website address and they are not telling proper shipping method.  In the website you can see the telephone number
   
  I really want to buy E17 now and X3 in the future but I am really stuck


----------



## joker97

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> Battery life for E17 is 10-15 hours. So it's normal if it doesn't last a week. Also, E7 also takes few mins of charge before you can turn on, so I don't think you have a defective one. It's normal.


 
  No, after I charge it until it doesn't charge, *I DON'T use it for a week *and it's dead. is that normal?


----------



## WalkingMan56

Quote: 





joker97 said:


> No, after I charge it until it doesn't charge, *I DON'T use it for a week *and it's dead. is that normal?


 
   
  For mine, yes - I found it as strange as you do, but thhat's the way it seems to be.
   
  If I charge my iRiver H120 and the E17 both fully and don't use them for a week, then switch them on the iRiver is still fully-charged and the E17 is dead-flat - yes, it is inconvenient.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Andy


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





joker97 said:


> No, after I charge it until it doesn't charge, *I DON'T use it for a week *and it's dead. is that normal?


 
  I didn't 'not' use it for a week after charge. But once, I charged it and didn't use it for a day or two. I did lose a bar of battery.


----------



## TrollDragon

That's because Off is not truly Off, its in a standby mode waiting for the touch of the button or a power signal from the dock. The standby circuitry they use just draws a little too much power. I like a nice switch that disconnects the battery when off. That way months later when you turn it on there is still a majority of the charge left. Doesn't help with dock signals but you can't have it all... 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## WalkingMan56

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> That's because Off is not truly Off, its in a standby mode waiting for the touch of the button or a power signal from the dock. The standby circuitry they use just draws a little too much power. I like a nice switch that disconnects the battery when off. That way months later when you turn it on there is still a majority of the charge left. Doesn't help with dock signals but you can't have it all...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Many thanks for the explanation - makes complete sense, I'm with you on the "totally off" switch - that would be great.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Andy


----------



## audi0lurker

I mean Ill just post here to say I love mine.  
   
  This is my first DAC and greatly augments my listening exprence.
   
  Pretty powerful equelizer aswell.  Its fun to plug this into an auxilary cord in a car play the music then start cranking up the EQ to freak out your friends


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





audi0lurker said:


> I mean Ill just post here to say I love mine.
> 
> This is my first DAC and greatly augments my listening exprence.
> 
> Pretty powerful equelizer aswell.  Its fun to plug this into an auxilary cord in a car play the music then start cranking up the EQ to freak out your friends


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
   
  There are many EQ's availble now adays but I guess it is fun


----------



## psyscott

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> it take 3 or 4 seconds to reset E7/E17.
> 
> We will discuss with Tenor to see how we can do to help our user with the compatible problem about win xp, win 7, mac os!


 

 I am having the same problem(s) as Feckie reported. Macbook (running OS X 10.6.8) does not recognize new E17 via USB, so it cannot be used as an external USB DAC. Starting the Mac in Boot Camp Win7 does not work any better. I will try on other computers when I get to me office. However, I wanted to post this inquiry asap hoping that someone might notice my new message in a relatively old thread and perhaps direct me to some more useful replies to help resolve this problem. I'm beginning to think this unit is just defective; if so, I will want to return it quickly and get another. I'll feel more certain if I cannot get it to connect on any other computers.
   
  I've tried most suggestions I've found to resolve this, but no luck so far. I do not find a message indicating a resolution for Feckie's reported problems. I'd rather not return it, but really must be able to use it as an external DAC. I will get more for my university research lab if it can get it to work properly.
  Thanks.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





psyscott said:


> I am having the same problem(s) as Feckie reported. Macbook (running OS X 10.6.8) does not recognize new E17 via USB, so it cannot be used as an external USB DAC. Starting the Mac in Boot Camp Win7 does not work any better. I will try on other computers when I get to me office. However, I wanted to post this inquiry asap hoping that someone might notice my new message in a relatively old thread and perhaps direct me to some more useful replies to help resolve this problem. I'm beginning to think this unit is just defective; if so, I will want to return it quickly and get another. I'll feel more certain if I cannot get it to connect on any other computers.
> 
> I've tried most suggestions I've found to resolve this, but no luck so far. I do not find a message indicating a resolution for Feckie's reported problems. I'd rather not return it, but really must be able to use it as an external DAC. I will get more for my university research lab if it can get it to work properly.
> Thanks.


 
  Plug it into at least two more computers. If they also do not recognize it, its probably defective. This is of course if you do it right AND if its a 'normal' computer. Work computers if they aren't locked down may work as well but also be sure to try another 'regular' computer.


----------



## psyscott

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Plug it into at least two more computers. If they also do not recognize it, its probably defective. This is of course if you do it right AND if its a 'normal' computer. Work computers if they aren't locked down may work as well but also be sure to try another 'regular' computer.


 

 That was the obvious plan, but your diagnosis was wrong, _bowei006_. After a few hours of troubleshooting I have discovered what's defective, and it's not the _*E17*_.
   
  This afternoon I tried 4 other 'work' computers, none were _locked_, _abnormal_, or _normal_, whatever that means: 1 iMac (10.6.8), 2 WinXP (32 bit), and 1 Win7 (64-bit), each in several ports. The _*E17*_ wasn't recognized by any of them. However, I then discovered the problem; the _*E17*_ is NOT defective, but _*FiiO*_*'s* accessories are. I'd already tried another USB cable, one that came with my _*FiiO* *E11*_. With that cable, the _*E17*_ connected to charge, as with the original cable, but that's all. Now, however, I tried connecting the _*E17*_ to my iMac using another USB cable that I found in my office and suddenly the cause of this whole fiasco was clear -- those short USB cables from _*FiiO*_ are inadequate. Two other USB cables I found in my office, and two more at home, ALL enabled the _*E17*_ to connect and be recognized as an external audio device by both Mac and Windows machines. Every USB cable I tried EXCEPT for the two from _*Fiio*_ worked correctly and connected the _*E17*_ as an audio device. The cables supplied with the _*E17*_ and the _*E11*_ both allow charging but otherwise fail to connect the _*E17*_ to any computers. _*FiiO*_ might make good amps & DACs but you can't trust their accessories --- a decent USB cable would've saved me a lot of time and trouble.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





psyscott said:


> That was the obvious plan, but your diagnosis was wrong, _bowei006_. After a few hours of troubleshooting I have discovered what's defective, and it's not the *E17*.
> 
> This afternoon I tried 4 other 'work' computers, none were _locked_, _abnormal_, or _normal_, whatever that means: 1 iMac (10.6.8), 2 WinXP (32 bit), and 1 Win7 (64-bit), each in several ports. The _*E17*_ wasn't recognized by any of them. However, I then discovered the problem; the _*E17*_ is NOT defective, but *Fiio's* accessories are. I'd already tried another USB cable, one that came with my _*Fiio* *E11*_. With that cable, the _*E17*_ connected to charge, as with the original cable, but that's all. Now, however, I tried connecting the _*E17*_ to my iMac using another USB cable that I found in my office and suddenly the cause of this whole fiasco was clear -- those short USB cables from _*Fiio*_ are bad. Two other USB cables I found in my office, and two more at home, ALL enabled the _*E17*_ to connect and be recognized as an external audio device by both Mac and Windows machines. Every USB cable I tried EXCEPT for the two from _*Fiio*_ worked correctly and connected the _*E17*_ as an audio device. The cables supplied with the _*E17*_ and the _*E11*_ both allow charging but otherwise fail to connect the _*E17*_ to any computers. _*Fiio*_ might make good amps & DACs but you can't trust their accessories --- a decent USB cable would've saved me a lot of time and trouble.


 
  Cable failure is one of the rarer aspects of the problem. I should have thought of that. Usually diagnosing means you would need to also brainstorm solutions as well.
   
  Why can't you trust the accessories that FiiO bundles with their units? They don't make them as far as I know. They look to be generic ones that were picked out from an OEM to be used as the accessories for FiiO's products. But beyond that. There is no reason not to trust them. There have only been 3 cases I am familiar with on this thread with FiiOs cables failing. This thread has been viewed over a quarter million times. Many have bought a FiiO E17 if not many other FiiO devices thanks to threads on the devices. Cable failure is one of the rarest occurances I could see. Obviously I do not have numbers, only what people report online to Head-Fi. The most error's that happen with users is user-error or not using corect software/not knowing how to correctly setup and using that software with the E17. Second highest would usualy be a DOA or battery problems which happened due to the E17 being in storage for a while or just having a plain bad battery.
   
  The morale of the story is. One experience doesn't mean a definite pattern.


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





psyscott said:


> I'd already tried another USB cable, one that came with my _*FiiO* *E11*_. With that cable, the _*E17*_ connected to charge, as with the original cable, but that's all.


 
   
  The FiiO cable that comes with the E11 is a CHARGE only cable, it has no data lines connected as the E11 does not require any data. This should really be labeled in their manual and on the cable as it is confusing to some users.
   
  If the cable you got with the E17 was as thin as the E11's they they packaged the wrong cable with the unit.


----------



## psyscott

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> -------------------------
> 
> If the cable you got with the E17 was as thin as the E11's they they packaged the wrong cable with the unit.


 
  They do LOOK identical & that would explain this problem.
   
  What I don't understand is why they'd risk this mistake & confusion, considering the consequence for the customer. Is a charge-only cable much cheaper (for FiiO)? Will it hurt my E11 to use a data cable to charge it? I don't know if I have any other _charge-only_ USB cables -- never thought about that.  How can I recognize one? Even my 'normal' USB cables vary & are more or less thick or thin.


----------



## TrollDragon

I don't know the volume of units that FiiO does, but with most manufacturing if you can shave a couple or cents off, 2 wires not used and one machine operation less, then over a few 100K units it starts to add up... And for small companies it can make a difference.

James from FiiO is on these forums and he is a great guy. He could probably answer that much better than I can.

Just plug your cables into the E17 and whatever ones don't bring it up as a DAC are probably charge only, you shouldn't have many of them, I've only seen this with my E11. And if they are not charge only but defective USB then there is a serious pile of them out there. 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





psyscott said:


> _*E17*_ _*E11*_ _*E17*_ _*E17*_ *E17* _*E17 *_*E17 E*_*11*_  _*E17*_


----------



## TrollDragon

Ahhhh mien eyes... 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## psyscott

Thanks for the explanation. Apparently just a packaging mistake.
   
  I've accumulated a lot of USB cords, including some with mini (and a few micro) plugs. Don't think many, if any others, are 'charge only'. Guess FiiO has a reason, maybe something more than simply saving a few pennies (eg., faster charging?).
   
  Obviously something for users to watch out for if they have any problem getting a computer to recognize their E17. It's easy to check and an easy fix -- just change the cable.


----------



## smpie

I’m planning to get the E17 later on when my T5p’s get in.
  The low impedance of the T5p don’t really need an amp (32ohm) but I’m willing to jump in the amp boat. I have heard that the T5p’s don’t need an amp but would benefit from one.
  After googling “FiiO E7 objective review “ (because I couldn’t find the newer E17) and found a nice objective review with measurements showing the good performance of the E7 ..
  I consider the E17 to be a updated model that shares a lot of hardware with the E7. First I wanted to get the E12 and the E10 for desk but after reading a couple of NON objective reviews (I’m a shamed to say) that I opted not to go for the E12 and E10 and just go for the E17.
  It is very difficult to find nice objective reviews showing what is what.. As a newbie in the audio world it is difficult for me to judge a statement like “darker souding” or “warmer souding” .
  But being that the T5p is a High end headphone I hope that the FiiO E17 will compliment it. And using it as a DAC with Spdif out from my mac would be a nice upgrade from the default audio Jack out I think (hope)..
  Well only time can tell I guess. Alas I did not have the option to listen to the T5p’s before I got them . No store has them in Stock.. The E17 I could order and give them a listen for 10 days and judge them..
  If any of you have any tips or different recommendations please let me now..
  Greets


----------



## KT66

I would say the T5p is too good for the E17, it will just reveal the flaws
Aim higher to get the most out of the 5p


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





kt66 said:


> I would say the T5p is too good for the E17, it will just reveal the flaws
> Aim higher to get the most out of the 5p


 
  Yes cause we would not want to see a lowly E17 driving the beyerdynamic T5p's. That would be sacrilege...
   
  I would suggest the iQube V3, ALO The International or wait for the CEntrance HiFi-M8... But the last two are only USB though, only the iQube has optical in like the E17 does...


----------



## leogodoy

Why is that? Wouldn't it have enough power to drive it?


----------



## smpie

Quote: 





kt66 said:


> I would say the T5p is too good for the E17, it will just reveal the flaws
> Aim higher to get the most out of the 5p


 
   
 Ok and what would you recommend ?
 The O2 amp? with perhaps the O2 DAC?
  
 by the way i just went serving to the "qables" web site and all i can say is My god !!
 Do they now there is a global economic crises in the world ?
 hahah Well think again no crises in the world of "qables"  i'm not saying that i'm not spending top Dollar or in my case top Euros' hahaha getting the Beyerdynamic T5p.. But "qables" asks €107,50 for a iPod cable YEP that's $138,41 for a cable mind you !!
  
 And considering that there is no objective data proving that a cable really does improve sound this is a company that in my mind really caters to the Wealthy people among us..
 There is nothing wrong with that ..And in a better economy i would probably just get the tiny cable for $140 bucks .. But in this economy i would rather spend my hard earned $$ on something i REALY now will improve sound beyond a shadow of a doubt..
  
 Getting back to the iQube V3 , it's a shame that no one has ever done a objective review about it with numbers and so on..Like with the O2. Just Googling "o2 amp " will get you to a site filed with objective data… The iQube costs €585 thats $754 BIG ONES … would it not be better to spend that $$ on perhaps a second open back headphone? Like HE-500 or LCD-3 ?
  
 I just realised that iQube is a Dutch company ! Like me and the strange thing is if i get an amp from the USA that will cost me about the same..Getting an amp from China would save me a lot  hahah..
  
  
 Summarising the FiiO E17 vs the iQube V3 that's a €445 $572 difference  i would have to get both and do a blind comparison letting a friend and my girl listen while i do the switching Because there is no objective review showing me that i should spend $572 more without the option to compare them both my self..pfff it's a hard thing to consider..i'm getting a headache just thinking about it..back and forth!
  
 Do all you guys just go out and grab the most expensive gear out there of do you have a couple of reference amps that you have laying around to do your objective comparison with??
  
 greets s ..thanks for all your inputs / help really appreciate it..


----------



## TrollDragon

Hey smpie!
   
  I was the one who posted the iQube V3 suggestion as I was just being a little facetious in regards to the E17 not being worthy for the T5p... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  There are a actually quite a few Toslink supporting portables out there to choose from.
  The iBasso D12, Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII, to name a few, but since this is a FiiO E17 thread, I see no problem with the E17 running your T5p's quite well, and if you find that it's sound does not suit you, it would be very easy to sell in the For Sale forums.
   
  If you don't require optical or portable then there are a whole myriad of choices, that would be worthy of it's own thread.
   
  There are others who would have choices for you as well.


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





smpie said:


> Ok and what would you recommend ?
> The O2 amp? with perhaps the O2 DAC?
> 
> by the way i just went serving to the "qables" web site and all i can say is My god !!
> ...


 
  I really like my Leckerton UHA6S-MKII. But I don't have a T5p, so I can't comment on synergy. Leckertons are very solid overall. It matches high end gears like UERM well with very good detail and clarity.


----------



## KT66

After finally managing to get the optical to work using the S/PDIF (optical) output of my Dell XPS desktop, and 24/96 sounding great , I try 24/192 and just get white noise, sounding a bit like my old 56k modem, some music is getting through but it is a horrible sound.

Any ideas ? It only happens on 192 or 176

My PC also has S/PDIF RCA connector, can anyone recommend a cable to try with the E17 ?
I find digital connections the biggest mess in the history of audio. Grrrrr


----------



## Necrontyr

Since your component chain is simply Dell XPS -> Fiio E17 then it would suggest that your Dell doesn't support outputting optical at 24bit / 192khz 
   
  The reason you can hear anything at all is because the 192Khz is the rate at which it samples the input signal , if you set something to sample at 192khz and its only sending data at 96khz or 48khz then 1 in every 2 samples, or 1 in every 4 should be noise / artifacting of the signal. 
   
  Since Fiio say the E17 supports 24/192 over an optical cable then either your dell isnt properly sending data for each sample or your optical cable is damaged, although if it works fine at lower rates then the latter is unlikely. 
   
  Dan


----------



## KT66

leogodoy said:


> Why is that? Wouldn't it have enough power to drive it?


Not talking about volume , just quality.


----------



## Necrontyr

There are many debates about sound quality and the value of higher sample rates, in general i prefer just to use 24/48000 , but the merit to going higher than that for recreational listening is shaky at best, but thats an argument for another thread.
   
  My point being is that you should just be happy at 24/96 and only use higher if your mastering your own audio creations.


----------



## KT66

I think you are probably right, all my LP rips are now 24/48. I was concerned that my new E17 might be faulty , thanks to Foobar re-sampling I can live with the problem


----------



## Necrontyr

Just on that point, did you try test the connection with a genuine 192khz source file ?


----------



## KT66

Found my best desktop sound to date! 

PC to E17 coaxial , Fiio LOD into Graham Slee Voyager (via QED 3.5 to 3.5) into HD600

Incredibly smooth yet detailed, I guess the E17 is a better DAC than headphone amp.
It's a messy set up but worth the effort


----------



## JonRGM

I'm having good luck running my e17 with toslink from macbook pro as a DAC and feeding the line out level (using L7 accessory) to a little dot 1+ hybrid amp. Pretty versatile with my Grado 225i cans and my He-400, although I have yet to try it with CIEMs so I can't really tell if the thing is realtively quite when nothing is playing.


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





jonrgm said:


> I'm having good luck running my e17 with toslink from macbook pro as a DAC and feeding the line out level (using L7 accessory) to a little dot 1+ hybrid amp. Pretty versatile with my Grado 225i cans and my He-400, although I have yet to try it with CIEMs so I can't really tell if the thing is realtively quite when nothing is playing.


 
  I heard that E17 has dead silent background.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote: 





kimvictor said:


> I heard that E17 has dead silent background.


 
  I think it is silent but, since I also use it with my cell phone, it does pick up cellular and wifi interference. I've confirmed this with 3 different phones.


----------



## smpie

for a short time i have bin thinking "should i just go for the iCAN" 
  
 Here is what i like about the FiiO E17.
 i read a FiiO E7 objective review complete with in depth graphs giving me a good picture how the device performs.
 So that's a good one..
  
 The iCAN is WAY WAY more expensive..and one is bound to a wall outlet ..
 But i REALY like the nice features one has on the ICAN adding bass and a cross feed like switch..
 Very cool..
 Off course I'm letting the hype of it all take me for a ride hahaha.
 Sinds i have not seen a  objective impartial review.
  
  
 Just googling this will get you to the place where i made my conclusion:
 " objective review FiiO E7 USB DAC & Amp "
  
  
  Well i don't now..the problem is that one could like an amp or the other but without listening to more than one amp one could do no comparison.
  Furthermore a blind testing is needed so that one could just listen to the music without letting the hardware influence you..
  Lot's of people i talk to seem to be more about the hardware than the actual enjoying of the music.


----------



## TrollDragon

I have a Colorfly C3 which has a very low output, great for IEM's but if you want to listen with higher impedance headphones there is not enough power to drive them properly. This is where the E17 comes into play, a little bass and treble control with a higher output, means the C3 is now useable with anything. I also have an E11 for when I don't feel like undocking the E17 which is my PC's DAC. The E11 does a great job for it's price as well, I know there are many here who dislike it. Some of us cannot justify $300+ portable amplifiers, they would be nice to have but too many other things require a priority over toys... 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hammers7

Quote: 





audi0lurker said:


> I mean Ill just post here to say I love mine.
> 
> This is my first DAC and greatly augments my listening exprence.
> 
> Pretty powerful equelizer aswell.  Its fun to plug this into an auxilary cord in a car play the music then start cranking up the EQ to freak out your friends


 
  My first DAC as well! I actually joined here and bought it off the marketplace in the same day. I have to try the car AUX thing- thanks for the idea. This place seems awesome so far, but it's immediately apparent that I'm in wayyyyyy over my head here; It looks like I have a lot to upgrade/learn. Anyway, I have Audio-Technica ATH Pro 700 MKII headphones so I bought the E17 to boost the bass because I've been aiming for crazy bass this whole time, but it hasn't changed my listening too much just yet. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or I should've opted for something else. Oh well, looks like I have a lot of reading/searching to do!


----------



## jackielii

I heard hiss through E17 on my Sennheiser Momentum, turned out I had wireless mouse receiver on a USB port next to the E17 USB port.
   
  Unplugged the wireless mouse receiver and hiss was gone.
   
  Hope this help with those who had the same problem.


----------



## JonRGM

I can't hear a thing, but I'm not a "golden ear" I'm more like a "leaden ear" but still, it's nice and quiet!


----------



## jasonxff

Hi ClieOS,
   
  Does this amp suitable for the JH16 Pro which is sensitive and have low impedance? Did you ever tried it with CIEMS before? Or do you know anynoe who tried it before?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jasonxff said:


> Hi ClieOS,
> 
> Does this amp suitable for the JH16 Pro which is sensitive and have low impedance? Did you ever tried it with CIEMS before? Or do you know anynoe who tried it before?


 
   
   
  The few issues with amp pairing with CIEM are: (1) output impedance, (2) hiss, (3) volume imbalance and (4) gain.
   
  High output impedance might cause coloration, but E17 is less than 1 ohm and perfectly fine with CIEM.
  Too much a hiss can be heard by sensitive CIEM, but E17 is very low in hiss.
  Volume imbalance is a problem for normal volume pot. E17 has digital volume control so this isn't an issue.
  Too high a gain makes CIEM too loud too fast, but E17 has adjustable gain so it should be fine as well.
   
  Of course, I don't have a JH16 Pro to test it but I don't see how or why E17 can be used with CIEM. I do have very sensitive IEM (including CIEM) and they are all fine with E17.


----------



## jasonxff

clieos said:


> The few issues with amp pairing with CIEM are: (1) output impedance, (2) hiss, (3) volume imbalance and (4) gain.
> 
> High output impedance might cause coloration, but E17 is less than 1 ohm and perfectly fine with CIEM.
> Too much a hiss can be heard by sensitive CIEM, but E17 is very low in hiss.
> ...


----------



## jasonxff

What about sound quality,are they good? And Fiio X,what's your opinions?


----------



## visanj

My E17's USB port is dead and I would like to use cooaxial/spdif port. But my desktop's soundcard has optical output
   
  Could anyone in this thread please let me know how to connect optical to spdif (E17's 3.5mm port)?
   
  Is there any cable which has 3.5mm spdif on one side and optical tip on the other side?
   
  Appreciate your response


----------



## weitn

Agreed with ClieOS. I use my JH16 Pro with my original E17 (first few batches delivered when the E17 first came out) with no issue.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jasonxff said:


> What about sound quality,are they good? And Fiio X,what's your opinions?


 
   
   
  I think its SQ is excellent for the price, but not -be-all-end-all of course. If by 'X', you means X3 - the review is here.
   
   
  Quote: 





visanj said:


> My E17's USB port is dead and I would like to use cooaxial/spdif port. But my desktop's soundcard has optical output
> 
> Could anyone in this thread please let me know how to connect optical to spdif (E17's 3.5mm port)?
> 
> ...


 
   
  S/PDIF comes in two forms: coaxial and toslink (optical). E17 accepts both. Since your PC only output optical / toslink, I'll suggest you get a short toslink cable instead.


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





visanj said:


> My E17's USB port is dead and I would like to use cooaxial/spdif port. But my desktop's soundcard has optical output
> 
> Could anyone in this thread please let me know how to connect optical to spdif (E17's 3.5mm port)?
> 
> ...


 

 Any one of these here:
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902
   
  If you still have the Toslink Mini adapter your E17 came with the you could use any of these:
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904


----------



## visanj

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Any one of these here:
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902
> 
> If you still have the Toslink Mini adapter your E17 came with the you could use any of these:
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904


 
   
  But the site says 3.5mm connected with 5 mm outside diameter. Is 5 mm mandatory?
   
  Because I have chosen another product as only this is available in India
   
http://www.amazon.com/HOSA-TOSLINK-mini-Toslink-FIBER-OPTIC-CABLE/dp/B00006LVF3
   
  Can you please tell me if this will be compatible?
   
  Thanks


----------



## visanj

Also I'm still thinking if I could resolve USB driver issue with E17 myself before buying this cable
   
  I tried with different machines, different cables, different OS. Facing same problem in all the machines
   
  When I connect E17 to the machine, its not getting detected. In Device manager it shows 'USB Composite Device' with yellow exclamatory mark and in Device Status it says 'This device cannot start. (Code 10)'
   
  Can any techie help me in resolving this issue? Since this is a USB Class 1 driver I can't update the driver but there should be some way where we can fix driver issue rather sending E17 to manufacturer.


----------



## bowei006

You also may not be using the right cables keep that in mind. Perhaps the other cables you use are charge only and dont have data capabilities. This happened to another fellow. But if you tried a few cables then that probably doesnt apply to you

Right click on E17 in device manager and uninstal drivers

If that doesnt work. Soft reset and hard reset the E17 and try again

WARNING: only uninstal driver if it speciically says E17. Doing so for any other can wreck your computer


----------



## TrollDragon

visanj said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yes that Toslink cable will work fine.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jasonxff

weitn said:


> Agreed with ClieOS. I use my JH16 Pro with my original E17 (first few batches delivered when the E17 first came out) with no issue.
> 
> So u are saying the latest batches of the E17 got issues? How was the sound quality from the combo?


----------



## jasonxff

clieos said:


> From memory, I will say T5 sounds better than E17, but not night and day difference. I'll post a real comparison once I have the E17 replacement (which should be here by early next week).





how about compared to xm6? Did u tried it before?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jasonxff said:


> how about compared to xm6? Did u tried it before?


 
   
  Nope, never listened to XM6 before.


----------



## jasonxff

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Nope, never listened to XM6 before.


 
  Ok,do u familiar with Sony Walkman`s? I was thinking if i bought the E17 to combo my Walkman,should i use the Line Out or just the 3.5mm cable? The reason i`m asking this is that my walkman has in-built EQ,noise cancelling,bass boost and some other feature to enhance the output. So if i use the line-out cable instead,this would bypass the all the feature i said before right? Will this be a benefit or the other way around?


----------



## ClieOS

Sorry, don't know much about Sony Walkman either. However, most likely you won't bypass EQ since most EQ in DAP these days are implemented digitally and can't be bypassed. Noise cancelling however will not work, I assumed, since it probably has to work with the stock earphone out of the headphone-out.


----------



## nicks9

I have a question about the L7 LOD.
  Does the USB jack on the L7 allow you to still use USB audio input on the E17?
  I can't imagine why it wouldn't, but I just want to make sure.


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





nicks9 said:


> I have a question about the L7 LOD.
> Does the USB jack on the L7 allow you to still use USB audio input on the E17?
> I can't imagine why it wouldn't, but I just want to make sure.


 

 Yes everything works the same with it hooked to a computer etc... it just gives you access to the Line Out port on the bottom of the E17. So you could plug your powered speakers or other Line Level device into the 3.5mm jack on the L7


----------



## nicks9

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Yes everything works the same with it hooked to a computer etc... it just gives you access to the Line Out port on the bottom of the E17. So you could plug your powered speakers or other Line Level device into the 3.5mm jack on the L7


 
   
  Awesome, thanks.


----------



## jasonxff

Quote: 





jasonxff said:


>


 
  Anyone can comment on this please? Is the recent batches of E17 got issues? How was the sound quality when paired with JH16 Pros?
  And is the Fiio X3 basically is a player with "E17" built-in am i correct?


----------



## etartakoff

This question is a little out of the blue but wasn't sure where to ask it.
   
   
 I have both the Fiio E7 and E17 I use the both at different times as a DAC on my macbook pro 

 when I use the E7 the volume control on the laptop has no affect on the output volume level but 

 when I use the E17 it does. What is different 

 about these DAC’s and how they work.

 in system preferences the E7 is listed as USB Audio DAC and the E17 is listed as Fiio USB DAC- E17

 thanks


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





etartakoff said:


>


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
  Normal font is great to use. We can perfectly see it.
   
  That happens due to consumer responce.
   
  Generally, you do not want the computer to have anything less than 100% for 'volume' when you have a DAC attached and that volume control is directly interfacing with the DAC. This reduces the bit depth sent.
   
  The E7 was made with FiiO thinking that up there. That you shouldn't turn the thing down from 100%. This is to guarantee quality.
   
  Most people don't know this and are also of circumstance where they want to do it and dont' care. This created a problem as they thought it was a problem or didn't like the E7 not allowing them to change the volume when it was connected.
   
  FiiO thus with the E17 changed it so that you can change volume. Of course, keeping at 100% is still fully recommended, but now people can do whatever they want.


----------



## etartakoff

visanj said:


> Also I'm still thinking if I could resolve USB driver issue with E17 myself before buying this cable
> 
> I tried with different machines, different cables, different OS. Facing same problem in all the machines
> 
> ...



Thank you so much


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





etartakoff said:


> Thank you so much


 
  Not sure who you were referencing?
   
  You quoted a post that was also asking a question and looks to not have to deal with your problem?
   
  I'll take a guess and imply that something weird happened and that the 'thank you' was directed towards me?
   
  If it is:
   
  You're Welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If it's not:
  Oh well, then this is awkward.


----------



## etartakoff

I attempted to reply to a different post sorry for the confusion


----------



## etartakoff

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
> Normal font is great to use. We can perfectly see it.
> 
> That happens due to consumer responce.
> ...


 
  thank you


----------



## audioKyle

Just got the e17 today. It's my first headphone dac/amp and i'm impressed. I wasn't expecting it to improve the sound a whole lot but it made an immediate difference when using it via usb on my 2008 macbook. Even with low impedance headphones there was a noticeable difference.


----------



## TrollDragon

Excellent! Congrats on your E17 and welcome to the club!

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## solserenade

audiokyle said:


> Just got the e17 today. It's my first headphone dac/amp and i'm impressed. I wasn't expecting it to improve the sound a whole lot but it made an immediate difference when using it via usb on my 2008 macbook. Even with low impedance headphones there was a noticeable difference.


 Right on. Welcome!


----------



## jscivias

Hi, I am a complete newbie to all things hi-fi so bear with me please..
   
  so I am thinking of getting Fiio E17 for use with my laptop (lenovo t430s) and IEMs. 
   
  my question: can I also use Fiio E17 with my mp3 player, and connect it to my integrated amp (3.5mm - RCA cable), for use with  my floorstanding hifi speakers (totem hawk)? or is this ridiculous and not possible..
   
  thanks in advance


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jscivias said:


> Hi, I am a complete newbie to all things hi-fi so bear with me please..
> 
> so I am thinking of getting Fiio E17 for use with my laptop (lenovo t430s) and IEMs.
> 
> ...


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet!"
   
  Yes, you can use the E17 with your MP3 player. Depending on what kind of MP3 player it is. It will only provide additional driving power and EQ controls and tonality. If it's an iPod, you can get better quality with the E17 if you also get an LOD.
   
  You can use the E17 as a DAC and then use the L7 to line out to the floorstanding speakers own amplifier. Otherwise, the second one isn't a good idea for the E17 to driving full size speakers.


----------



## jscivias

Thanks a lot for the quick reply.
   
  yes my mp3 player is ipod/iphone.. so in addition to E17, I should buy the L9 LOD for the ipod and L7 for connecting to my integrated amp (for my floorstanding speakers)?
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jscivias said:


> Thanks a lot for the quick reply.
> 
> yes my mp3 player is ipod/iphone.. so in addition to E17, I should buy the L9 LOD for the ipod and L7 for connecting to my integrated amp (for my floorstanding speakers)?
> 
> Thanks again!


 
  For best performance, you should use the L9 or L11 or L3 LOD with your iPod.
   
  It may not be useful to use the E17 as a DAC. The L7 outputs 3.5mm so you need to find out how your florrstanding speakers operate and what they are already plugged into.
   
  It also matters what headphones you are using as some may not benefit from the adition of an E17


----------



## jscivias

re: L7 - I was thinking of using a standard 3.5mm to 2x RCA cable which would go to my integrated amp (where my floorstanding speakers are connected to). but then again I saw that the L7 has usb input, so does that mean I can only use my laptop (via usb) as the source? I don't quite understand how I would be able to connect my ipod to the integrated amp with the L7.. the intention is basically to be able to play music on my computer or mp3 player with my floorstanding speakers..


----------



## jscivias

p.s. I interchange between a low end shure (se215) and westone um2 IEMs .. no headphones (yet)


----------



## solserenade

jscivias said:


> re: L7 - I was thinking of using a standard 3.5mm to 2x RCA cable which would go to my integrated amp (where my floorstanding speakers are connected to).




That's all you need. iPod>E17 > 3.5mm to RCA cable to your amp > speakers. 

Cheers.

The connection between iPod and E17 can be either 3.5mm to 3.5mm or the Fiio LOD. 

Your choice.


----------



## KT66

Wouldn't that be an analogue line out of the Ipod ? And if so ,then why use the E17 ? 
It's like triple amping , as its going into an integrated or or per amp? 
Or has the iPod got digital out into the E17 ?

-----------------------------------

Does the USB input sound worse than the optical, if you only listen to maximum 24/96 files? , is there a benefit to using the optical input instead of the USB ?

The back of my Dell XPS 420 desktop has an RCA coaxial output , what is the best way of connecting this to the optical in of the E17? Could someone please recommend a cable available in the UK ?
Thanks


----------



## TrollDragon

For your coaxial, use the adapter that came with the E17 (RCA to 3.5mm TRS) and any RCA patch cable to the RCA on your computer. Don't forget to set the input of the E17 to COX.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## weitn

Quote: 





jasonxff said:


>





> So u are saying the latest batches of the E17 got issues? How was the sound quality from the combo?


 
   
  Sorry for the late reply. No. I am not saying the latest batches of E17 has issues. Although I have not heard of the new batch of E17, they should sound the same. Else someone in the forum would have mentioned it. I mentioned I using the original earlier batch of E17 is for your information. Comparing my E17 to the new E17 photos at Fiio website, I noticed that the 4 screws at the back is now allan (hex key) screws. My E17 is using philip screws.
   
  The sound quality is good. The sound quality is better than iPhone 4s but not significant. Below is the setups for the comparison with iPhone 4s.
  1) JH16 connecting to E17. E17 is connected to iPhone 4s using Fiio L3 cable.
  2) JH16 connecting directly to iPhone 4s output.
   
  The sound quality should be better if the E17 is connected to a laptop with optical cable. I can't test that cause my laptop don't have optical output.
   
  For now, this amp is good enough me. When I have extra cash in the future, I might try out other more expensive amps.


----------



## jasonb

The E17 works with the Samsung Galaxy S4 as a DAC with the help of an OTG cable!


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

My E17 won't turn on, what can i do?


----------



## DemonFox

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> My E17 won't turn on, what can i do?




Do you have the e9? When ever my e17 did that I plugged it in to the e9k and turned it on and they both lit up. Or I'd just plug the USB cable into it and get pushing the button until it turned on. Or leave it plugged in for a whole they try. 

Good luck


Thanks,


D


----------



## bowei006

asdfghjkzxcvbnm said:


> My E17 won't turn on, what can i do?


Plug i usb connected to a computer. 

If not.

Plug usb into a usb power adapter

If not.

Perform hard reset. Use a pin and hit the reset on the E17.


----------



## Bazirker

For those of you with an E9 as well, do you feel plugging the E17 into the E9 improves the sound as compared to just the E17 by itself?  
   
  (This is assuming you're using low impedance phones like CIEM's or portable headphones, not something like 600 ohm DT990's.)


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote: 





bazirker said:


> For those of you with an E9 as well, do you feel plugging the E17 into the E9 improves the sound as compared to just the E17 by itself?
> 
> (This is assuming you're using low impedance phones like CIEM's or portable headphones, not something like 600 ohm DT990's.)


 
  The only difference I can really pick up on is the midrange seems a little quieter when docked with the E9. I'll have to do some really careful listening to find anything else.


----------



## thehogester

So is android now a great option for use with the E17? Im considering what phone to get after my iPhone 4S.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thehogester said:


> So is android now a great option for use with the E17? Im considering what phone to get after my iPhone 4S.


 
  Last I checked, still not really due to the power draw of the E17 even with USB chg turned off meaning that an external power source between the E17 and Android device is needed. And then even after that we have problems of devices working and not working, if you know how to set it up for digital output as its not an official feature of the phone's. Cyanogen mods and what not as well as cables from ebay not working or lieing.


----------



## SpiderNhan

If Android compatibility is what you're looking for, then wait for the E18 coming out later this year. It is specifically designed for Android. I can confirm that the E17 does not work with my Galaxy SIII.


----------



## DanBa

A friend of mine has a FiiO E17 working with a stock Galaxy S3 using the USB Audio Recorder PRO app available on Google Play store, without any external power source.
  There is a free trial version of USB Audio Recorder PRO.
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro
   
  USB Audio Recorder PRO is my prefered music player. I has also Neutron and Poweramp.
  And I am not alone:
   
  "From what I understand, USB Audio Recorder Pro app allows higher quality recordings to be played in their true hi-res quality because it bypasses a 16-bit/48kHz limitation in Android kernel. (The DX100 also does that with the iBasso software.) All other apps downsample to 16/48 before passing the signal to the external DAC like the Apex Glacier.
   
  Besides that, I also find the app to output very natural sound. So I used the app quite a bit when I am in the mood for the best quality."
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2475#post_9511194


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





danba said:


> A friend of mine has a FiiO E17 working with a stock Galaxy S3 using the USB Audio Recorder PRO app available on Google Play store, without any external power source.
> There is a free trial version of USB Audio Recorder PRO.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro
> 
> ...


 
  Is he using the S3 to E17 with an USB OTG cable?


----------



## DanBa

Yes, he does.
   
   
  As legacy computers, legacy peripherals like Android smartphones having all the features of a computer need to interconnect with peripherals.
  This slave-to-slave communication functionality is not supported by the master-to-slave communication USB model.
  To address this need, the USB OTG concept is added to the USB standard. 
   
  USB OTG retains the legacy master-to-slave or USB host-to-USB peripheral communication model.
   
  A USB OTG device is a dual-role USB device, sometimes a USB host, sometimes a USB peripheral:
  . a USB OTG-capable Android device operating as a USB peripheral can interwork with a PC operating as a USB host
  . a USB OTG-capable Android device operating as a USB host can interwork with a USB DAC always operating as a USB peripheral.
   
  A USB OTG software program and USB OTG hardware components are added at the USB level.
  A USB OTG device is configured to USB host mode or USB peripheral mode by USB OTG software/hardware measuring the value of the ID resistance of the USB interface.
   

   
When the Micro-B plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is greater than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB peripheral mode.
   
   

   

  When the Micro-A plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is less than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB host mode.


----------



## jasonb

The E17 works perfectly with my Verizon GS4. I've only used it for about a half an hour total, but it does work and it's simply plug and play.
  Quote: 





thehogester said:


> So is android now a great option for use with the E17? Im considering what phone to get after my iPhone 4S.


----------



## jimmy2027

Has anyone get the E17 DAC to work with Note 2?


----------



## DanBa

jimmy2027 said:


> Has anyone get the E17 DAC to work with Note 2?


 

   
   
  The FiiO E17 should work with a Galaxy Note 2 using USB Audio Recorder PRO, because in regard to the USB protocol, the behaviour of the Galaxy Note 2 is reportedly identical to the behaviour of the Galaxy S3.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2460
   
  USB Audio Recorder PRO doesn't use the native USB audio driver of the Galaxy Note 2.


----------



## asdfghjkzxcvbnm

Quote: 





demonfox said:


> Do you have the e9? When ever my e17 did that I plugged it in to the e9k and turned it on and they both lit up. Or I'd just plug the USB cable into it and get pushing the button until it turned on. Or leave it plugged in for a whole they try.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, nothing worked except for hard resetting.


----------



## jimmy2027

danba said:


> The FiiO E17 should work with a Galaxy Note 2 using USB Audio Recorder PRO, because in regard to the USB protocol, the behaviour of the Galaxy Note 2 is reportedly identical to the behaviour of the Galaxy S3.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2460
> 
> USB Audio Recorder PRO doesn't use the native USB audio driver of the Galaxy Note 2.




Why then is e17 not listed for note 2 on the list?


----------



## DanBa

because the Galaxy Note 2 - FiiO E17 interworking is not so far reported.


----------



## jimmy2027

danba said:


> because the Galaxy Note 2 - FiiO E17 interworking is not so far reported.




What exactly is interworking, and how is it different from the behavior of note 2 from your previous post?


----------



## takwing1hk

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> The E17 works perfectly with my Verizon GS4. I've only used it for about a half an hour total, but it does work and it's simply plug and play.


 
   
  any idea if there is a chance that E17 will work as a DAC with my cowon z2?
   
  other than using "USB Audio Recorder PRO", any other free software that I can use to output the digital signal to my E17?


----------



## DanBa

Quote: 





jimmy2027 said:


> Why then is e17 not listed for note 2 on the list?


 
   
  Quote: 





jimmy2027 said:


> What exactly is interworking, and how is it different from the behavior of note 2 from your previous post?


 
   
  The mentioned list is "a list of standard USB DAC reportedly interworking with the Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy Note II:
   
  stock Galaxy Note II > digital USB audio out >> USB OTG cable (ID pin grounded) >> standard USB DAC >> amp >> headphones
   
  . Audinst HUD-mx2 (USB DAC/amp):
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/651660/audinst-hud-mx2-dac-amp [USB DAC info]
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1890#post_9264638  [report source]
   
  . Apex Glacier (USB DAC/amp):
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/632019/apex-glacier-amp-dac-review-and-appreciation-thread
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/632019/apex-glacier-amp-dac-review-and-appreciation-thread/165#post_8924724
   
  ...
   
   So far, like the quad-core Exynos powered Galaxy S3, the quad-core Exynos powered Samsung Galaxy Note II can work with the FiiO E7, the iBasso D12, Leckerton UHA-6S MKII, the ODAC, … ; had some issue with the HeadAmp Pico (bug fixed by HeadAmp); and doesn’t work with the FiiO E17 using the stock USB audio driver.
   
  So, in regard to the USB protocol, the behaviour of the Galaxy Note II is likely identical to the behaviour of the Galaxy S3..."


----------



## rodpp

Quote: 





jamesfiio said:


> 1, We will have more dealer around the world includes Brazil soon . and hope everyone buy FiiO from local dealer.
> 
> 2, We will send a new E17 to you directly from China and all for free, but it is not a common solution for everyone , please understand we can provide such service to everyone.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hello!
   
  This week my new FiiO arrived in my home with all accessories. I tested it alone and with my E09K desk amp and everything is working great now!
   
  Thank you FiiO for the excellent after-sale service, solving my uncommon case in the best way for me.
   
  I think that one only really know about a brand when something goes wrong and you need support.
   
  In the first moment I bought a new DAC/amplifier in USA, flew back to Brazil and found that it does not work, I was very disappointed with a probable paperweight. After the impressive after-sale support, very fast answers, personalized service, interest in solve my problem, I changed my mind and realize how good this brand is. 
   
  I hope to buy new products from FiiO, very good quality, honesty prices and excellence in the after-sale support.
   
  Best Regards,
  Rodrigo.


----------



## TrollDragon

Congratz Rodrigo!
Really glad to hear all went well and you have a perfectly good working unit, the E17/E09K is a great combo.

Props to James from FiiO for the excellent customer service, FiiO is truly a top notch company!

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bowei006

I dont think James provides the customer service at Fiio. Lol


----------



## TrollDragon

But... I do think he had a hand in getting the replacement delt with though... 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Jaddeth

Is is worth it to buy Fiio E17 and connect it with Shure SRH440? Will the sound quality improve?


----------



## bowei006

jaddeth said:


> Is is worth it to buy Fiio E17 and connect it with Shure SRH440? Will the sound quality improve?


Dont recommend it. Save the $140 for another headphone. I have the srh440 btw.


----------



## Jaddeth

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Dont recommend it. Save the $140 for another headphone. I have the srh440 btw.


 

 Thanks for answer
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## MrTissues

Problem fixed!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mrtissues said:


> I got my FiiO in last night and it worked fine on my Windows 7 desktop. Now I am trying to use it on OS X 10.8.4. I have it selected as my output device for audio, and have USB selected on the FiiO but no sound comes through. Am I missing something?


 
  Maybe try doing the settings in Audio Midi Setup?


----------



## audioKyle

NOOO! I just got some new headphones in so I was excited and plugged it in the optical port by mistake. Now whenever i change the volume on my computer/device it makes a horrible distorted sound. It sounds like the drivers in the headphones blew out. That distortion lasts about 5 seconds then it plays normally. Changing the volume on the e17 itself is fine.
   
  I don't really want to send it for repair since i would have to send it to China or wherever they are located.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





audiokyle said:


> NOOO! I just got some new headphones in so I was excited and plugged it in the optical port by mistake. Now whenever i change the volume on my computer/device it makes a horrible distorted sound. It sounds like the drivers in the headphones blew out. That distortion lasts about 5 seconds then it plays normally. Changing the volume on the e17 itself is fine.
> 
> I don't really want to send it for repair since i would have to send it to China or wherever they are located.


 
  You may have damaged a connector or the optical receptor inside it?


----------



## audioKyle

Yea probably damaged something. Whenever i change the volume from the source it makes that very distorted sound.


----------



## QldKev

I've started using an e17 as I wanted a mobile amp option. But youtube and lower quality mp3s always result in that click click sound, without reading the past 400 pages, is there a fix?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





qldkev said:


> I've started using an e17 as I wanted a mobile amp option. But youtube and lower quality mp3s always result in that click click sound, without reading the past 400 pages, is there a fix?


 
  Is it a constant clicking in the background?
   
  Or a pop/click as the audio begins and stops? If its the later, its normal. If it's the former, check to make sure electrical wires like lamp wires are not anywhere near the E17, its USB cable or any cable


----------



## audioKyle

Well i found the problem only exists when using the dac/plugging in via usb. Otherwise works fine. The problem is i can't use the dac now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Contacted fiio but they didn't respond yet.


----------



## QldKev

It's a constant clicking during the music. It's not always there, and I find sometimes if I unplug my headphones and put them back in it goes away for a while. The only cable close to the usb is a couple more usb cables plugged in next to it, and then the power for the computer.  I should add I did have noise back when I used to use my Fiio e5, but when I was using a Schiit modi and magni I had no noises.
   
  I have not noticed it when using my Sansa clip, so it must be a usb related issue. So maybe I could use the headphone jack on the motherboad for a signal.  Only problem it sounds so much better using the built in dac.


----------



## bowei006

The explanation I received for it was that it was a byproduct of the digital stepped attenu___(not gonna try) in the E17. Still annoying none the less.


----------



## joltman

I just joined the headphones club.  My wife bought me a pair of Sennheiser HD 650s as a wedding present.  I picked up the Fiio E17 and E09K.  I'm using them on my Windows 7 x64 (Professional) desktop at work.  I've got MediaMonkey 4.1.1644 running as well.  I'm using WASAPI output directly to E17 (not default device) in MMW and in Windows I have the default sound device set to the E17.  The issue I'm facing is when I pause the music to answer the phone/whatever, then unpause, I get an awful stuttering out of the song.  I have to stop the song, then restart it to get that cleared up.  It's probably a MMW issue, but I wanted to ask here in case anyone else has seen this issue.  Thanks!
   
  Joltman


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





joltman said:


> I just joined the headphones club.  My wife bought me a pair of Sennheiser HD 650s as a wedding present.  I picked up the Fiio E17 and E09K.  I'm using them on my Windows 7 x64 (Professional) desktop at work.  I've got MediaMonkey 4.1.1644 running as well.  I'm using WASAPI output directly to E17 (not default device) in MMW and in Windows I have the default sound device set to the E17.  The issue I'm facing is when I pause the music to answer the phone/whatever, then unpause, I get an awful stuttering out of the song.  I have to stop the song, then restart it to get that cleared up.  It's probably a MMW issue, but I wanted to ask here in case anyone else has seen this issue.  Thanks!
> 
> Joltman


 
  "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
   
  Can you try this on foobar2000? It may be a latency issue, most have it default set to 1000ms. See if yours is as well.


----------



## joltman

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> "Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
> 
> Can you try this on foobar2000? It may be a latency issue, most have it default set to 1000ms. See if yours is as well.


 
  Thanks for the reply!  I did a quick search (didn't do it before as I had to get home and prep the house for a showing) and I unchecked "Exclusive Mode" under OPTIONS, OUTPUT PLUGIN, and WASAPI.  It appears to have fixed the issue!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





joltman said:


> Thanks for the reply!  I did a quick search (didn't do it before as I had to get home and prep the house for a showing) and I unchecked "Exclusive Mode" under OPTIONS, OUTPUT PLUGIN, and WASAPI.  It appears to have fixed the issue!


 
  Nice! Glad it has! Enjoy dude and you have an awesome wife!


----------



## audioKyle

My distortion problem is gone. I put it away for a couple days thinking I'd have to send it for repair but I tried resetting it again and it works now. Don't know what happened but I'm just glad I can use it now!


----------



## MusicalChillies

Just purchased the E17 and will hopefully have it for the weekend. Purely as a DAC so Youtube should sound better than straight out my laptop headphone socket. (Realtek HD). Will be testing with my SD3`s.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicalchillies said:


> Just purchased the E17 and will hopefully have it for the weekend. Purely as a DAC so Youtube should sound better than straight out my laptop headphone socket. (Realtek HD). Will be testing with my SD3`s.


 
  I would recommend using it for songs you have and not listening to Youtube songs.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I would recommend using it for songs you have and not listening to Youtube songs.


 
  That doesn`t fill me with optimism, surely must be better than my onboard Realtek? 
   
  Edit: HD youtube


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicalchillies said:


> That doesn`t fill me with optimism, surely must be better than my onboard Realtek?
> 
> Edit: HD youtube


 
  Really depends, the quality of Youtube songs is pretty low. 1080p Youtube ones IF EVEN DONE RIGHT have the ability for 256kbps which is fine. But this is of course if their original source files were lossless. Because if it wasn't, they are dual compressing it


----------



## MusicalChillies

I do find some Youtube tracks through my Ipod touch sound not bad at all, just don`t have the same via the laptop. I am not after perfection, just better. 
   
  Away from Youtube, playing 320mp3`s and FLAC`s through Foobar is also a priority. 
  If neither is that great then I will sure let you know. I did have an Ibasso amp/dac (sold) and was ok but extremely warm sounding and no option to alter the sound. I will put the Fii0 through it`s paces and see whats what.
   
  Paying £100 for a Fii0 product, I hae some high hopes. I am certainly not an audio snob and I think Fii0 are a decent bang/buck company. Only amp I owned was the E5? little box thing but I do have their LOD still.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicalchillies said:


> I do find some Youtube tracks through my Ipod touch sound not bad at all, just don`t have the same via the laptop. I am not after perfection, just better.
> 
> Away from Youtube, playing 320mp3`s and FLAC`s through Foobar is also a priority.
> If neither is that great then I will sure let you know. I did have an Ibasso amp/dac (sold) and was ok but extremely warm sounding and no option to alter the sound. I will put the Fii0 through it`s paces and see whats what.
> ...


 
  Well try it out and let us know


----------



## MusicalChillies

I will mate. With the DAC part of it can you use the equalizer or is that just the amp part?
   
  Well Panda, if you were to sum the E17 up in a sentence, what would you say?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





musicalchillies said:


> I will mate. With the DAC part of it can you use the equalizer or is that just the amp part?
> 
> Well Panda, if you were to sum the E17 up in a sentence, what would you say?


 
  If you do not have an L7. the EQ applies to the entire device.
   
  "Good all around unit with all the features that a would want at a good price"


----------



## MusicalChillies

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> If you do not have an L7. the EQ applies to the entire device.
> 
> "Good all around unit with all the features that a would want at a good price"


 
   
  Thanks for you insight mate, appreciated.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Received today and I have to say really good synergy with my Ipod touch and Stage Diver 3`s, super smooth and vocals appear to me more refined and less edgy than with my C&C BH amp. Nice to hear the amp and dac is very very similar.
  Good old FiiO.


----------



## Rafaell

Is this amp good enough to use with the Sennheiser hd650 and ipod 5.5 gen? (Btw, if you know a better mp3/flac player, do tell)


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





rafaell said:


> Is this amp good enough to use with the Sennheiser hd650 and ipod 5.5 gen? (Btw, if you know a better mp3/flac player, do tell)


 
   
  Not a bad pairing at all. To me (Key word me) the e17 paired better with the HD650's than my O2 did. Just wasn't a fan of that pairing. Loved the O2 tho but it just didn't go together well. 
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## MusicalChillies

After 24hrs with this amp I can safely say "what a gem". After fearfully hearing some distortion and knocking the gain down to 0 from the stock +6 it has sounded great. Black background and spacious. Sounds great as a DAC via Foobar and as an amp. Balance control which I overlooked when purchasing has brought my right ear up to speed, fab.
  The most annoying part was joining it to my iPod touch. Velcro`d to the back I have to be careful not to damage either device.


----------



## luisn1117

The Fiio E17 is a great buy for me. Great sound for a reasonable price!


----------



## MusicalChillies

Quote: 





luisn1117 said:


> The Fiio E17 is a great buy for me. Great sound for a reasonable price!


 
  Not just for you, this is a decent bit of kit at FiiO prices.


----------



## TheBirdfeede

Maybe you guys can help. I was originally looking at getting the e12 headphone amp to be paired with my ipod but after realising my macbook (white, 13", 2008) sounds pretty pants compared with a better headphone amp (old, i know but a technics su-v460 on board headphone amp) I started looking at the e17, as an all in one amp/dac for the macbook and amp for the ipod.
   
  What I want to know is how does the sq of the e17 stack up against the e12? It would be powering my akg k701's so not sure how they will also sound with either. Any advise would be great!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thebirdfeede said:


> Maybe you guys can help. I was originally looking at getting the e12 headphone amp to be paired with my ipod but after realising my macbook (white, 13", 2008) sounds pretty pants compared with a better headphone amp (old, i know but a technics su-v460 on board headphone amp) I started looking at the e17, as an all in one amp/dac for the macbook and amp for the ipod.
> 
> What I want to know is how does the sq of the e17 stack up against the e12? It would be powering my akg k701's so not sure how they will also sound with either. Any advise would be great!


 
  I like to listen a bit louder than average. The E17 and X3 has just enough power to power my Q701's to loud levels, but on oldie songs, there wasn't enough power
   
  However it should be enough for most people
   
  The E12 imo is the better amp. The E17 was a bit warmer and bassier which could benefit the Q701, but ultimately for a reference headphone like the Q701 (I don't have K so I'm using Q as a close enough comparison) the E12 with its cleaner sound and power worked great.
   
  But of course, the E12 doesn't have a DAC and thus the E17 will probably actually be the 'cleaner' amp if used with the MBP


----------



## TheBirdfeede

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I like to listen a bit louder than average. The E17 and X3 has just enough power to power my Q701's to loud levels, but on oldie songs, there wasn't enough power
> 
> However it should be enough for most people
> 
> ...


 
  Quick reply! So it could be the e17 might be the one for me. Does the e17 have a line out feature? In a veiw to use the e17s DAC and the e12s amp? Or would it not really be worth it or a good enough improvement to warrant combining the two?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thebirdfeede said:


> Quick reply! So it could be the e17 might be the one for me. Does the e17 have a line out feature? In a veiw to use the e17s DAC and the e12s amp? Or would it not really be worth it or a good enough improvement to warrant combining the two?


 
  Yes it does. With an adapter, the FiiO L7 ($7) you can use the E17 as a DAC only and use whatever other amp you want*
   
  The output from the L7 is 3.5mm TS so you need an amp that supports an input that will somehow work with that.
   
  Most use RCA so you could just get a 3.5mm to RCA cable and you should be fine.
   
  It's not that it wouldn't be good as much as it wouldn't be as cost effective or worth your money.
   
  At that point of $250, you could start looking at ALO, Leckerton, iBasso etc for their portable combined units.


----------



## TheBirdfeede

I thought as much, I think for now I will prlly go for the e17 and see how I get on. Cheers for your help!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





thebirdfeede said:


> I thought as much, I think for now I will prlly go for the e17 and see how I get on. Cheers for your help!


 
  Thanks and again, it really depends on how loud you listen to. If not very, the E17 has more than enough power.
   
  I know many already say the E17 have enough power for them but of course its all about how loud you listen.
   
  The E17 is frequently on massdrop for $98 which makes it a really good deal.
   
  It's warm and bassier sound doesn't compliment the Q701's, but at this price range, its really all universal anyway and will help you until you want to delve deeper(if you even want to later on)


----------



## kimvictor

Quote: 





thebirdfeede said:


> Maybe you guys can help. I was originally looking at getting the e12 headphone amp to be paired with my ipod but after realising my macbook (white, 13", 2008) sounds pretty pants compared with a better headphone amp (old, i know but a technics su-v460 on board headphone amp) I started looking at the e17, as an all in one amp/dac for the macbook and amp for the ipod.
> 
> What I want to know is how does the sq of the e17 stack up against the e12? It would be powering my akg k701's so not sure how they will also sound with either. Any advise would be great!


 
  As an amp, e12 is better. It makes sense. E17 is a DAC/amp. E12 is just an amp. If you need an DAC for your computer though, E17 sounds like a better choice.


----------



## DDDamian

Thought I'd post a first impression of the E17. By way of introduction (first post here lol) I'm a member of Team XBMC who contributed to the new audio engine in place for v12 "Frodo" and an ardent audio junkie.
   
  A couple of test scenarios:
  1) as a portable amplifier essentially double-amping my faithful iRiver H10 (RockBox'd ofc), and
  2) as a USB DAC/amp connected to a PC
   
  Test gear can-wise was the ol' Koss Porta-Pro's, some middling Pioneer closed over-ears, and the Sennheiser HD558's. First off, I'll rule out any serious review of the first two cans. The Porta-Pro's are so easy to drive they benefited little over the stock 18mW output of the iRiver, let alone when powered by PC soundcard. And the Pioneer's are just to tainted to my ears to really convey much improvement, so I'll focus only on the Sennheiser HD558's, partly because they seemed lacking with the iRiver DAP and partly because they are such a hot seller of late. Lesson here is: if you have very easy-to-drive cans like the PP's or just lacklustre gear like the Pioneers, this unit won't help you much.
   
  Okay, onwards with the HD558's.......
  1) As much as I was thrilled with my initial audition of the 558's, their performance when driven by the iRiver was underwhelming. The DAP just couldn't drive them to their full potential. Soundstage was somewhat lacking (despite it being a forte of these open-ear cans) and bass was muddled. The only thing that shone when driven by the iRiver was the stellar mid-highs of female vocals and brass instruments. Enter the E17. Even though we're just utilizing the iRiver's dated DAC, the amplifier power of the E17 was just enough to really make the 558's shine. Bass was tighter and punchier (and the 558's lack bass), the air or seperation improved, soundstage widened to the full potential and the mids and highs kept faithful to the Sennheiser signature, albeit brighter with the 558's than some of the darker Senn's. Outside of the more pronounced and improved bass, the overall effect was very lively and bright. Accoustic guitar is always a great test of fidelity and timbe, and the E17 brought it out wonderfully. Electronica was clear to a fault, often revealing recording and intrument-quality issues not heard without the amp. Top marks here. The E17 made this combination sparkle, and made the pairing (tripling?) a portable powerhouse to be reckoned with. FLAC's at 24/96 were pristine, punchy and powerful indeed. No audible hiss until far over-driven and distortion point passed. Highly recommended for a portable kit.
   
  2) Powered from a PC with a bog-standard RealTek audio chipset, the Senn's sounded great, much better than with the iRiver DAP above. The E17 took it another step, although the improvement was less than with the underpowered iRiver above. Using the digital USB DAC things obviously are much different. Now the E17 is judge, jury and executioner, and it performed admirably for such an economically priced and versatile unit. Tempering my expectations to keep in line with pricing, I found the E17 to be a robust performer, and a stauch improvement over the obvious issues with motherboard audio. Combined with the 558's expect to hear every flaw of poor recordings and poor lossy rips. With quality sources expect fantastic sound, with every nuance clearly presented and minimal noise or other distortions. The unit is more than capable of powering the 558's (a forgiving 50ohms impedence) to unhealthy levels before significant distortion, to the point were it is as likely the distortion is more pronounced from the Senn's drivers than the amp. High-quality 24/96 material soars with this combo. Via the E17's DAC I found some of the brightness noted above smoothed out, and the presentation was quite neutral, and an excellent pairing with the 558's. The tightening of the bass is also a boon to these cans. Highly recommended when you consider the price.
   
  Overall:
  Pros: versitility, price, build-quality, packaging (nice felt bag, digital adaptors, rubber feet), compliments 558's well
  Cons: no support for 88.2khz - a major issue for those with SACD material, can't easily update firmware
   
  With the caveat of no 88.2khz sample rates, this is a real sweet-spot unit for price/performance ratio, and an extremely versatile unit. Highly recommended for those who are looking for a great all-rounder for both desktop and portable use. Makes me wish for more DAPs with digital outputs (USB/optical/coaxial). A hit out of the park for FIIO in brnging together so much for such a pleasing price.
   
  Recommend.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Hi mate and welcome to Head-Fi. A good read and agree with what you have written. The amp produces a clean black background and doesn`t suffer from interference, well not with my SD3 anyway.


----------



## m8o

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *DDDamian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...
> Cons: no support for 88.2khz - a major issue for those with SACD material, can't easily update firmware
> ....


 
   
  Good read.  Thanx for taking the time.  But I have to ask why is it you say this?  Because I'm looking at the User Manual I received with the item I assume you have too, reading:
   
  Menu Description
    -> (2) 44.1k and 48k will both display 48k; 88.2k and 96k both display 96k
   
  88.2K is definitely supported per the specs and the caveat regarding the UI display is referred to in the manual.  Seems their software/display doesn't do decimal points, or given the 2 extra digit spaces necessary to display it they didn't have they opted to display the shorter whole digit closest to the actual sampling rate.
   
  Now if what you implied with your statement instead is DSD isn't supported, yes that's a truism.  But 88.2K sampling of PCM is supported.


----------



## jasonb

A few weeks ago I reported that the GS4 works with the E17, just simply plug and play with no USB audio recorder pro app required. I had tested it on wifi, and 3G, and reported that 3G was dead silent, and that wifi made some light interference with the E17. Well tonight I was sitting at home bored and decided to drive a few miles down the road where there is a 4g signal, I can finally report that the E17 is dead silent with Verizon 4G LTE on the GS4. I was a bit worried that there would be some interference from the 4G signal, but I did not hear any noise at all.


----------



## DDDamian

m8o said:


> 88.2K is definitely supported per the specs
> Now if what you implied with your statement instead is DSD isn't supported, yes that's a truism.  But 88.2K sampling of PCM is supported.




The driver fails to report 88.2kHz as a supported mode thus WASAPI Exclusive Mode fails. Tested with Win7 x64. Using DirectSound or WASAPI Shared Mode results in resampling. Check under Supported Formats in the Audio Properties panel and that sample race is not listed. This is a driver issue hopefully as the DAC itself should support it.


----------



## bowei006

Last I checked it was. 88.2 and its sibling 44.1 aren't shown on the Alpen but rather 48 and 96 are the ones shown.


----------



## ssg1

Has anyone had problems starting e17? I tried to start my e17 and it didn't react no matter how or how many times I pressed power button it finally started when I unplugged it few times from USB and red ring appeared. It had almost full battery so it was not out of juice. I have it connected to computer 24/7 via USB, but I close e17 everytime I close my computer. I am not sure if my USB ports are powered even if computer is closed as they are front ports and I have not tested it. I tried to start it after computer had already booted to windows, but I don't see how that can be relevant.


----------



## stjj89

Anyone have experience driving the HE-400s with the E17? Also, what would be the next step up from the E17 for driving these cans?


----------



## TrollDragon

stjj89 said:


> Anyone have experience driving the HE-400s with the E17? Also, what would be the next step up from the E17 for driving these cans?


An E09K to dock the E17 into if your looking for a desktop solution.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Ear-Wax

The E17/E09 is an affordable "entry" setup into desktop DAC audio but I found that after just one week with this combo it left me wanting for more so I returned my FiiO gear to the store yesterday for a refund.


----------



## VikingForce

I do have a question.
   
  Normally in youtube videos I can see that in "System Set" menu entry you have an "Run Time" option available.
   
  In my E17 this "Run Time" option is missing.
   
  Does anybody know more about it ? Is because in new firmware versions the option is hidden ?
   
  Thanks !


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote: 





vikingforce said:


> I do have a question.
> 
> Normally in youtube videos I can see that in "System Set" menu entry you have an "Run Time" option available.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't have the Run Time option on mine, either. I bought mine in April of this year.


----------



## DDDamian

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Last I checked it was. 88.2 and its sibling 44.1 aren't shown on the Alpen but rather 48 and 96 are the ones shown.


 
   
  To be fair this is an issue with the standard USB audio driver in Windows, which many of these lower-cost DACs use as it's already provided by Microsoft. If you are using USB you can't use WASAPI exclusive mode and get 88.2khz. Using the other modes (e.g. DirectSound or WASAPI shared) you will get resampled audio per your settings for shared mode audio - 32khz, 44.1khz, 48khz or 96khz.
   
  The only way to get 88.2khz would have been if FIIO included a custom driver and not relied on the built-in Windows driver. Hard to fault them given the incredible value of these units, but a fair caveat to point out.


----------



## jasonb

The option is not in the newest firmware. so the newer E17's won't have the feature. I got mine last October and mine does not have the option either. So it's been a while since they had the option.
  Quote: 





vikingforce said:


> I do have a question.
> 
> Normally in youtube videos I can see that in "System Set" menu entry you have an "Run Time" option available.
> 
> ...


----------



## VikingForce

Indeed. it seems new firmware versions hide this option. Mine I bought it last week.


----------



## stjj89

Quote: 





ear-wax said:


> The E17/E09 is an affordable "entry" setup into desktop DAC audio but I found that after just one week with this combo it left me wanting for more so I returned my FiiO gear to the store yesterday for a refund.


 
   
  That's what I worried that I would do! What did you end up getting that was enough of a step up then?


----------



## Ear-Wax

Quote: 





stjj89 said:


> That's what I worried that I would do! What did you end up getting that was enough of a step up then?


 
  Well, I did more than just a step up so to speak. I picked up the Asus Essence One Muses edition second hand for a really good price. This DAC is simply amazing and can easily match Boutique DAC's in SQ that are twice the price.
   
  My HD650's are finally able to show their true abilities and I'm now a happy camper!
   
  Cheers!


----------



## VikingForce

What combination are you using most ?
   
  USB 24/96 or optical toslink 24/192 assuming that 24/192 is way better in quality(theoretically and if the source is right) and on the other hand is using the sound board driver, taking also into account that on 24/96 the soundboard processing is skipped. (think which does not happen in 24/192 case)


----------



## naddm

Just got me an e17 and it seems like a huge upgrade from just pc audio.  Thanks FIIO.


----------



## QldKev

I thought I would throw my 2c in. I'm running Denon AH-D600 headphones which don't need a lot of power to drive them. I was using the Schiit Magni/Modi stack from my computer but wanted a portable setup so purchased the e17. In a side by side comparison against the e17 I found most measurements of the Schiit were better.  Schiit bass went deeper and was smooth, treble held the highs very clean, it had a wider sound stage, and a lot better instrument separation.  But I found without any adjustment for gain on my easy to drive headphones the volume became hard to find that sweet spot for listening. A big issue to my ears on the Schiit vocals were often piercing; I could not listen to Pink's The truth about love album. The e17 has a warmer sound which is nice and leaves the Schiit almost clinical. Overall I prefer the e17 as it just puts all the music together better and is a more enjoyable experience.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





qldkev said:


> I thought I would throw my 2c in. I'm running Denon AH-D600 headphones which don't need a lot of power to drive them. I was using the Schiit Magni/Modi stack from my computer but wanted a portable setup so purchased the e17. In a side by side comparison against the e17 I found most measurements of the Schiit were better.  Schiit bass went deeper and was smooth, treble held the highs very clean, it had a wider sound stage, and a lot better instrument separation.  But I found without any adjustment for gain on my easy to drive headphones the volume became hard to find that sweet spot for listening. A big issue to my ears on the Schiit vocals were often piercing; I could not listen to Pink's The truth about love album. The e17 has a warmer sound which is nice and leaves the Schiit almost clinical. Overall I prefer the e17 as it just puts all the music together better and is a more enjoyable experience.


 
   
  Good review. I wish more amps would include a feature or two aside from a volume knob.
   
  For instance ... E17 has 3 gain settings, full bass and treble control, balance, sleep timer, DAC, Optical IN, it's portable (or not), etc. ....


----------



## bigjohn1

Quote: 





qldkev said:


> I thought I would throw my 2c in. I'm running Denon AH-D600 headphones which don't need a lot of power to drive them. I was using the Schiit Magni/Modi stack from my computer but wanted a portable setup so purchased the e17. In a side by side comparison against the e17 I found most measurements of the Schiit were better.  Schiit bass went deeper and was smooth, treble held the highs very clean, it had a wider sound stage, and a lot better instrument separation.  But I found without any adjustment for gain on my easy to drive headphones the volume became hard to find that sweet spot for listening. A big issue to my ears on the Schiit vocals were often piercing; I could not listen to Pink's The truth about love album. The e17 has a warmer sound which is nice and leaves the Schiit almost clinical. Overall I prefer the e17 as it just puts all the music together better and is a more enjoyable experience.


 
   
  True, with what I have been reading and experienced with the M&M stack, it has a very neutral sound to it.  This would agree with your assessment.
   
  Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Good review. I wish more amps would include a feature or two aside from a volume knob.
> 
> For instance ... E17 has 3 gain settings, full bass and treble control, balance, sleep timer, DAC, Optical IN, it's portable (or not), etc. ....


 
   
  I agree, and those settings are some of what sold me on getting the E17, and I have thoroughly enjoyed listening to it for my portable setup.
   
  In defense of the M&M stack, those additional settings/options are not there specifically to keep the cost/price down on those units - which is stated in the FAQ on the Schiit website, so it was not an oversight.  If you move up to some of their (or other manuifacturers) higher end units, you gain some or all of those things, but also experience gains in the cost.


----------



## clown1925

Is alpen really better than ibasso d zero? By the way i will use it for my shure 425 iem... I kinda like the portability of the d zero... But regarding their sound is it really better than d zero? Thanks for the help


----------



## Chris J

clown1925 said:


> Is alpen really better than ibasso d zero? By the way i will use it for my shure 425 iem... I kinda like the portability of the d zero... But regarding their sound is it really better than d zero? Thanks for the help




This doesn't really answer your question, but I do find that the iBasso D12 does have a clearer, purer, less gritty sound than the FiiO E17.


----------



## clown1925

chris j said:


> This doesn't really answer your question, but I do find that the iBasso D12 does have a clearer, purer, less gritty sound than the FiiO E17.



Is the d12 and dzero almost the same?


----------



## Chris J

The D12 uses two DACs and costs almost three times as much as the D-Zero, so I would think that the D12 is a more sophisticated design.
I really don't know much more than that. Sorry!


----------



## soundofpraise

400 pages and I don't think I have the time to read all pages 

I just wanted to ask, what is the best way to hook up an iPod nano 7G to the Fiio e17? Currently my setup is iPod nano 7G + lightning to 30pin adapter + Fiio L9 LOD + Fiio e17 + shure se535


----------



## bowei006

soundofpraise said:


> 400 pages and I don't think I have the time to read all pages
> 
> I just wanted to ask, what is the best way to hook up an iPod nano 7G to the Fiio e17? Currently my setup is iPod nano 7G + lightning to 30pin adapter + Fiio L9 LOD + Fiio e17 + shure se535



No, you have time. Do it.
  Just kidding.

For Lightning Apple devices, its actually recommended by some to use direct headphone out of it to your amplifier.

Why? The adapter itself has a built in DAC. It has to as Lightning is now a full digital format. Which is also why the adapter is bit more expensive than one would expect. but of course, the DAC in it is of pretty low quality it seems. Most feedback of it was pretty bad.


----------



## clown1925

soundofpraise said:


> 400 pages and I don't think I have the time to read all pages
> 
> I just wanted to ask, what is the best way to hook up an iPod nano 7G to the Fiio e17? Currently my setup is iPod nano 7G + lightning to 30pin adapter + Fiio L9 LOD + Fiio e17 + shure se535




Hi Sir, does the e17 sound good in your 535? Thanks!


----------



## Chris J

Personally, I hear a bit of "zzzzz" thru the E17 when I use my Shure SE-210 IEMs


----------



## Stonez

My GS2 and iPod Classic 5G both died in the last two weeks so I bought a Galaxy S4 as it was upgrade time.  I want to use S4->E17->Q701/HD25-1 II/ HiFiman HE400's depending on the situation.  What USB OTG cable should I be looking at to bring it all together?  My iPOd set up was piss easy!
   
  TIA


----------



## soundofpraise

clown1925 said:


> Hi Sir, does the e17 sound good in your 535? Thanks!




I hear a hiss through my shure se535. Even if gain is 0. Plugging the shures straight into the headphone jack on my iPod nano 7G eliminates the hiss. im not sure what's causing the hiss from the e17. Maybe double amping? Or the DAC chip? I dont know how this works but Im using the LOD so im guessing through the AUX you're using pure amp so..... double amping?

Besides the hiss, the sound seems good. I do not have anything to compare it with so my "good" may be biased. Adjusting the bass to 4 or 6 and the treble to 2 or 4 makes the SE535 sound balanced with a little low end kick. The shure se535 has become my own operational definition of mind-blowing detail from an analytical perspective. 

[edit] oh yeah and i never owned a DAC/Amp so i dont know what would be considered good for a DAC/Amp. [edit]


----------



## soundofpraise

bowei006 said:


> No, you have time. Do it.
> Just kidding.
> 
> For Lightning Apple devices, its actually recommended by some to use direct headphone out of it to your amplifier.
> ...




Hahaha thanks for the info that clears up a lot of impressions I had. so really if I wanted the best sound quality using the E17, I would need an iDevice that uses the 30pin not the lightning for the L9 LOD or 30pin to USB cable?


----------



## bowei006

soundofpraise said:


> Hahaha thanks for the info that clears up a lot of impressions I had. so really if I wanted the best sound quality using the E17, I would need an iDevice that uses the 30pin not the lightning for the L9 LOD or 30pin to USB cable?


30pin to USB last I checked will only work as you think it will work if you use it with something like a CLAS

So yeah, for best SQ of E17 +iPod, its best to have one with 30 pin.


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





soundofpraise said:


> Hahaha thanks for the info that clears up a lot of impressions I had. so really if I wanted the best sound quality using the E17, I would need an iDevice that uses the 30pin not the lightning for the L9 LOD or 30pin to USB cable?


 
  Or you can just do as ClieOS states in his review here, just use the headphone out. Raise the volume to max, drop it 3 steps and you have an approximate line out level.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/635800/impression-apple-nano-7g-lightning-to-30pin-adapter
   
  Mini to Mini cable is all you would need.


----------



## soundofpraise

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> 30pin to USB last I checked will only work as you think it will work if you use it with something like a CLAS
> 
> So yeah, for best SQ of E17 +iPod, its best to have one with 30 pin.


 
  oh man thats a big bummer. so really the best thing so get best sound quality without buying a new iDevice is to upgrade to a different DAC/Amp..... i should have kept my old iphone 4s


----------



## soundofpraise

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Or you can just do as ClieOS states in his review here, just use the headphone out. Raise the volume to max, drop it 3 steps and you have an approximate line out level.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/635800/impression-apple-nano-7g-lightning-to-30pin-adapter
> 
> Mini to Mini cable is all you would need.


 
  awesome! hey thx trolldragon!


----------



## sfwalcer

Ok, i so i had the E17s and thought that using a Fiio L9 LOD bypasses both the amp/ dac of my iPods but that wasn't the case it seems. The LOD only bypassed the internal amp of my iPod so there is no double amping going on.  Now i am wondering if there is anyway to bypass both the dac/amp of my iPods/ smartphone using cables like these.....???
   
  Will i be able to use the dac function of the E17 with a micro usb to mirco usb cable connected via your smartphone to the E17 like so:
... this in theory should bypass not jut the internal amp of the smartphone but the dac as well no??? Or wait, is this similar to the ipod LODs that just bypasses the ipods amp???
   
  Wait a minute here, what does this set up do when connected with the OTG micro usb cable from a smartphone to say a external dac/amp via USB?

... is this just bypassing only the amp of the smartphone as well??? Or is it bypassing both dac/amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also will something like this bypass the internal dac/amp of my iPod so i can use the dac/amp of the E17 via connecting it to it's mico USB port???
...  if this thing was a cable like those iPod LODs why of course.
   
  Thanks!!!


----------



## bowei006

No. The only way to bypass the DAC of Apple devices is with the $500+ CLAS, HPP1, Vmoda Verza, Sony blah blah etc etc
   
  Why? These companies paid apple a LOT of money to get the lisence to allow for them to get the 'code' to bypass the iPod's own DAC. You need a special device for this.


----------



## sfwalcer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> No. The only way to bypass the DAC of Apple devices is with the $500+ CLAS, HPP1, Vmoda Verza, Sony blah blah etc etc
> 
> Why? These companies paid apple a LOT of money to get the lisence to allow for them to get the 'code' to bypass the iPod's own DAC. You need a special device for this.


 

 Oh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Guess those $3 OTG cables won't cut it then. haha Thanks Panda we meet again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This time you won.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sfwalcer said:


> Oh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I thought you came here to troll at first...but then I realized you had a real question.
   
  The only specifics I know about this is from what James of FiiO has told us on this site. I'm not a product creator or anything so I wouldn't know but I have yet to hear anyone say otherwise.
   
  But Apple has this MiFi program
https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/
   
  You know those 'real' devices you see by Belkin, Bower and Wilkins that has the logo that tells you its legit and what not? Those are there for a purpose. For the most part, because the 40 pin dock is Apple's own proprietary setup, they can choose what to do with it. So these 'lisences' allow them to make the dock
   
  Most things are VERY simple so fakes come out easilly. Any fake dock is just a matter of copying it.
   
  However for our case, it won't be easy because one needs to bypass the DAC. From what I've heard, there is a special 'code' needed that you have to get from Apple which allows access to the actual internals of the iPod to allow you to bypass it.
   
  This is a big reason for why the only devices that can bypass Apple DAC are $500+ dollars. Because it cost them a lot of money and time and effort to get the program lisencing from Apple.
   
  How do I know this part is true? I don't. But think about it this way. Audiophilia is HUGE in China. If there is no other product from China that can bypass an Apple devices DAC at the cost of $20 or something(if it was really that simple right?) then we can be pretty sure that this 'code' and everything about how one can go to access an iPod/iPhone's DAC is hella hard. Because if China audiophiles haven't done it in a decade for cheap cheap cost. Then what I've heard is probably true
   
  One way people bypassed this constraint was through the 40 pin dock iPad variants and using the Camera Connection Kit. Because you see(lightbulb in brain lights up), if one can't get a device to bypass the DAC made by an external company. Why not use Apple's own CCK adapter to be the one that DOES the bypassing first!(ding ding ding)
   
  So yes, iPad(with 40 pin dock) users with CCK can use an external DAC of their choice as the CCK(only real Apple versions) does the heavy lifting for them. And boom. Most users have to use a DAC that has low power draw though as the CCK has a limitation. BUT another user in this thread was able to use another small hack to make it so that you can use any DAC you want regardless of power draw through some nifty engineering and understanding of how USB hosts and all that jumbo works. 
   
  Why type all this? I have a mechanical keyboard, and I love to hear the sound and feel of me typing long stuff. It feels absolutely boss, and it helps keep me sharp and what not. My gosh its so tactile and amazing. Every single time I type. Just say8ing


----------



## TrollDragon

sfwalcer said:


> Quote: Originally Posted by bowei006  No. The only way to bypass the DAC of Apple devices is with the $500+ CLAS, HPP1, Vmoda Verza, Sony blah blah etc etc   Why? These companies paid apple a LOT of money to get the lisence to allow for them to get the 'code' to bypass the iPod's own DAC. You need a special device for this. Oh.   Guess those $3 OTG cables won't cut it then. haha Thanks Panda we meet again. This time you won.


Owned by the Panda Sama meng... :eek:
Lovin it! All is good! 

He's hung my noob butt a few times as well!

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## sfwalcer

^ iTroll???
............. so that's how you see me, i see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now where can i get my dirty lil' hands on them magical "Camera Connection Kit" CCK adapters??? Seems to be DIY stuff and not sold anywhere??? But am very much interested in getting one though.
   
   
  Mechanical keyboard shhhhsmeboard more like this to be accurate.....
.... about them fruit products cuz i is a BIG PANDA FAN BOI!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But seriously though thanks for the insights, now i despise The Fruit Company even more. haha
   
   
... you're Vegeta why of course.
   
  WAIT i know it's hard to do for apple products but can this be done for smartphones cuz most have really crappy dacs, so is there a way to bypass the amp/dac of your smartphone and use the dac/amp of the E17 via the micro USB OTG connection???
   
  Edit: not quite TrollDragon, not quite.....


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sfwalcer said:


> ^ iTroll???
> ............. so that's how you see me, i see.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, your custom tag doesn't say otherwise.
   
  If you have an iPad with 40 pin dock, you can buy it from Apple.


----------



## jasonb

Apples ridiculously expensive licensing is just one more reason the newer Android phones are the way to go. The E17 is simply plug and play with the Samsung Galaxy S4. You can use the E17 with an OTG cable to get digital audio out of the S4. So for less than $150 you can do what Apple makes you pay over 3 times that to do.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Apples ridiculously expensive licensing is just one more reason the newer Android phones are the way to go. The E17 is simply plug and play with the Samsung Galaxy S4. You can use the E17 with an OTG cable to get digital audio out of the S4. So for less than $150 you can do what Apple makes you pay over 3 times that to do.


 
  Apple isn't forcing anyone to get digital audio out. It's a feature they never intended would be used in such a way we are using it. 
   
  And this will be my final post on this subject of Apple and Android.
   
  Why can't people stop circle jerking on Android fanboy and Apple fanboy or I hate this and I hate that and realize that nobody cares. You use and buy the phone that suits your needs best.
   
  I mean, do people  that like meat and want touchscreen capabilites on their fridge go out and buy a Kitchenaid fridge with those capabilities and then start posting everywhere online about how the Fridgeaire Fridge that handles vegetables better and doesn't use touchscreen as its control is absolutely crap? No. Because they bought the thing that fits their life better. 
   
  If people want X, they buy X. If they want Y, they buy Y. One doesn't need to buy Y, which fits their life the way they want, and then go and post about how X sucks to people without even knowing what they want.


----------



## jasonb

I know that nobody is being forced to, but people are here asking about digital out. I also think it's great that it's a feature that Android and the phone makers are willing to support without making people pay for licensing fees. That is what my point is. 
   
  I'm also not an Android fanboy. My last phone was an iPhone 4 and I kept it for 2 whole years and I never really had any serious issues with it. I'm not trying to start any fanboy arguements, I'm just stating the facts. I never said Apple sucks by the way. They do make great products, they are just a bit to closed off and restrictive for me.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> *Apple isn't forcing anyone to get digital audio out. It's a feature they never intended would be used in such a way we are using it. *
> 
> And this will be my final post on this subject of Apple and Android.
> 
> ...


----------



## sfwalcer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Well, your custom tag doesn't say otherwise.
> 
> If you have an iPad with 40 pin dock, you can buy it from Apple.


 
  iWear it tall and proud!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I literally got a license to troll. HE HE HE
   
  Hold up i am not well versed in all this apple talk, isn't that 40 pin dock/ connector standard on ALL iDevices like the older iPhones/ iPods; the wider/ fatter connector not the new lightening cable, no. 
   
  Not sure what you mean by "40 pin dock" tbh and only the iPad has it??? 
   
  Can you post some pics/ links???
   
   
  Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Apples ridiculously expensive licensing is just one more reason the newer Android phones are the way to go. The E17 is simply plug and play with the Samsung Galaxy S4. You can use the E17 with an OTG cable to get digital audio out of the S4. So for less than $150 you can do what Apple makes you pay over 3 times that to do.


 
  You seems to know more about smartphones than our Panda friend here, so when you use an OTG cable with your S4 connected to the E17 are you bypassing the S4s amp as well as the dac on your smart phone or just the amp??? The WHOLE reason i am asking is that i want to use the dac as well as the amp of the E17 using my iPods and my Nokia N9. I am just confused if the dac of the E17 is utilized in your OTG configuration that is all.
   
  Thanks everyone for your inputs so far!!!


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





sfwalcer said:


> iWear it tall and proud!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Only the iPad works with the CCK. New apple devices don't use the 40 pin dock.
   
  He is bypassing amp and DAC.


----------



## jasonb

Yes. USB-OTG to the E17 from the S4 is bypassing the phones amp and DAC. The S4 will be sending a digital signal to the E17 through the OTG cable. So the E17 becomes the DAC and the amp, just like when you would use the E17 with the USB port of a laptop. So the phone will just be a transport, just like when you use an Apple product with a Clas or Venturecraft or other Apple licensed DAC. The only difference here is that Android doesn't require amp/DAC manufacturers to pay crazy fees to allow their products to work with Android phones or tablets. This is a perfect example of open source vs strict proprietary products. 
  Quote: 





sfwalcer said:


> You seems to know more about smartphones than our Panda friend here, so when you use an OTG cable with your S4 connected to the E17 are you bypassing the S4s amp as well as the dac on your smart phone or just the amp??? The WHOLE reason i am asking is that i want to use the dac as well as the amp of the E17 using my iPods and my Nokia N9. I am just confused if the dac of the E17 is utilized in your OTG configuration that is all.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your inputs so far!!!


----------



## sfwalcer

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Only the iPad works with the CCK. New apple devices don't use the 40 pin dock.
> 
> He is bypassing amp and DAC.


 

 Oh.
   
  That's even more interesting cuz i assume that the ipad and ipods has the exact same connector/ cable so..... i guess like all apple stuff it works in mysterious ways. haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 j/k not trying to have any stupid android/ apple fan boi wars cuz i don't like them both so take it easy Panda man, don't lose your cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Nice glad OTG works that way, might need of them fancy $3 cables. LoL
   
  Thanks ya'll. Think all my questions has been answered. A happy troll here. 
   
  Edit: Thanks Jasonb!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 iGot it now.


----------



## jasonb

I will add though that not every DAC will work with every Android device, not even all newer Android devices. For example, the E17 works with the S4, but it has been reported that the E7 does not. It's also been reported that the E7 works with the older S3, but the E17 does not. Same with the newer HTC, Sony, and LG Android phones, not every current Android is compatible with every DAC. So it seems to be a bit hit and miss unfortunately.... See, I'm not a total Android fanboy, I'm just calling it as it is.


----------



## sfwalcer

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I will add though that not every DAC will work with every Android device, not even all newer Android devices. For example, the E17 works with the S4, but it has been reported that the E7 does not. It's also been reported that the E7 works with the older S3, but the E17 does not. Same with the newer HTC, Sony, and LG Android phones, not every current Android is compatible with every DAC. So it seems to be a bit hit and miss unfortunately.... See, I'm not a total Android fanboy, I'm just calling it as it is.


 
   
  Yeah i am kinda aware of what you just stated, i doubt my Nokia N9 works since it uses meego OS that NO ONE supports. haha I love the sound out of it anyways since its internal dac is muchhh better than my 6th gen classic, 4th gen nano, and my Sana Clip+, but it's just not loud/ powerful enough to drive some of my gears, so will be just use an amp with them. Just wanted to know how all these amp/dac stuff works that is all. I got it now.


----------



## Bazirker

Wow it just got a little crazy up in here.


----------



## Ashade

jasonb said:


> I will add though that not every DAC will work with every Android device, not even all newer Android devices. For example, the E17 works with the S4, but it has been reported that the E7 does not. It's also been reported that the E7 works with the older S3, but the E17 does not. Same with the newer HTC, Sony, and LG Android phones, not every current Android is compatible with every DAC. So it seems to be a bit hit and miss unfortunately.... See, I'm not a total Android fanboy, I'm just calling it as it is.




James Fiio said in the Fiio E18 thread that apparently E17 works on 4.2.x (therefore Galaxy S4), and E07K on 4.1.x (SIII, Note II, and others). Basically, don't update if you have the second one...

In my case with the E07K, it works in my Note, but not in my Nexus 10 (4.2.1), so it follows the rule pretty well. It might be DAC related.

I'm curious to see what happens with 4.3.


----------



## kalbee

bowei006 said:


> No. The only way to bypass the DAC of Apple devices is with the $500+ CLAS, HPP1, Vmoda Verza, Sony blah blah etc etc
> 
> Why? These companies paid apple a LOT of money to get the lisence to allow for them to get the 'code' to bypass the iPod's own DAC. You need a special device for this.



The prices on these things have dropped a lot; let's stop quoting them at $500 :b



ashade said:


> James Fiio said in the Fiio E18 thread that apparently E17 works on 4.2.x (therefore Galaxy S4), and E07K on 4.1.x (SIII, Note II, and others). Basically, don't update if you have the second one...
> 
> In my case with the E07K, it works in my Note, but not in my Nexus 10 (4.2.1), so it follows the rule pretty well. It might be DAC related.
> 
> I'm curious to see what happens with 4.3.



Dude... Thanks for the info! Great to know


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> The prices on these things have dropped a lot; let's stop quoting them at $500 :b
> Dude... Thanks for the info! Great to know


 
  I just googled all 3 devices I noted and they are still all $500+?
   
  The new CLAS is even more expensive


----------



## Ashade

kalbee said:


> TDude... Thanks for the info! Great to know




No problem man. You're very welcome.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I just googled all 3 devices I noted and they are still all $500+?
> 
> The new CLAS is even more expensive


 
  Cause you mentioned 4 and that fourth one is about $350 
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PHA-1-Headphone-Amp/dp/B00931SFZO


----------



## bowei006

I forgot the name ofthe last one. Anyway, the rest are still $500+ new.


Who wants one!!??  Not Me!!!


----------



## marmoro

I finally decided to buy Fiio E17 after hesitating for like 4 days every morning ><
   
  As soon as I hooked it up with my HD 598, I expected hissing but there were none. Of course I pumped the bass to 10 since that it what I'm interested with and WOW! I swear I expected to hear "muddy" bass but it was a pure bass increase.
   
  I didn't really notice any sound quality improvement over my PC onboard soundcard. Now I just need to get a digital cable to try it out on PS3. Might be possible with PS Vita with a USB Female to Mini USB 5pin adapter.


----------



## audioKyle

Is it bad if I put the e17 on high gain with easy to drive headphones such as my a900x? I find when on the 12db high gain setting, it tightens the bass up a bit.


----------



## TrollDragon

audiokyle said:


> Is it bad if I put the e17 on high gain with easy to drive headphones such as my a900x? I find when on the 12db high gain setting, it tightens the bass up a bit.


What ever works for you is all good! The gain is an input not an output, but it does affect the level of output.

You'll do no harm.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jasonb

Nope, it's not a bad idea at all. if it sound better with high gain and lower volume, than use it there.
  Quote: 





audiokyle said:


> Is it bad if I put the e17 on high gain with easy to drive headphones such as my a900x? I find when on the 12db high gain setting, it tightens the bass up a bit.


----------



## marmoro

Guys I tried connecting it to my PS3 via Optical cable but there is no sound. I configured my PS3 to use Optical Digital but there is still no sound.


----------



## kalbee

E17 was using OPT as source, right?
   
  In any case I know it (or at least mine) works with my PS3. I use it a lot.


----------



## jasonb

My E17 has been assigned to DAC only duty now. My E17, along with the L7 line out dock, is now being used to feed a vintage Pioneer SX-750 stereo receiver.


----------



## Jakkal

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> My E17 has been assigned to DAC only duty now. My E17, along with the L7 line out dock, is now being used to feed a vintage Pioneer SX-750 stereo receiver.


 
   
  Man, this thing is beautiful, probably sound as good.


----------



## jakenz

Hi guys, apologies if this has been asked and answered before in the 400 pages of this thread but a bit of skimming and keyword searching drew a blank...
   
  Just got a second hand Fiio E17 which I'm using connected to my galaxy S4 via USB OTG cable. Sound is much improved which is great. The issue is the S4 battery is draining at what is subjectively 1.5-2x the normal rate - and this is with USB charging turned off on the E17. Other settings: gain set to zero, vol at 18, tone settings all flat. 
   
  All I have as a benchmark comparative is my old Galaxy S3 with a Headroom total Bithead DAC via USB OTG, which from memory hardly affected battery drain - perhaps a 10% increase if that.
   
  So this typical of most portable USB DACs or if not then a known quirk/issue with the E17 and/or phone specific?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





jakenz said:


> Hi guys, apologies if this has been asked and answered before in the 400 pages of this thread but a bit of skimming and keyword searching drew a blank...
> 
> Just got a second hand Fiio E17 which I'm using connected to my galaxy S4 via USB OTG cable. Sound is much improved which is great. The issue is the S4 battery is draining at what is subjectively 1.5-2x the normal rate - and this is with USB charging turned off on the E17. Other settings: gain set to zero, vol at 18, tone settings all flat.
> 
> ...


 
  USB power draw differs from device to device. Is really just about all I can tell you


----------



## jakenz

Cheers I guess I was hoping/assuming the E17's ability to expressly switch off charging by USB would mean the E17's battery would fully power its DAC and USB sections with a negligible or nil load on the host phone's USB bus. Alas seems not the case, at least with the S4/E17 combo.


----------



## zachary80

Quote: 





marmoro said:


> Guys I tried connecting it to my PS3 via Optical cable but there is no sound. I configured my PS3 to use Optical Digital but there is still no sound.


 
  Did you get this worked out? I haven't ever had problems running it from my PS3 slim via optical. Are you sending video over hdmi? If you need me to I can hook it up again and look through all my settings.


----------



## bassboysam

i tried using my e17 with my HD cable TV box and i am getting no sound. i tried both optical and coax. any ideas?

also regarding bypassing apple DACs. i got the new Pro-ject digital S dock box and it worjs really well. got mine brand new for $250 which is the cheapest other than the Pure i20 as far as i know.


----------



## Advil

Just ordered this for my Macbook Pro + M50's. Quick questions. Should I use USB or Optical? and can I use this to listen to my TV with headphones?


----------



## kalbee

advil said:


> Just ordered this for my Macbook Pro + M50's. Quick questions. Should I use USB or Optical? and can I use this to listen to my TV with headphones?



Most people using MBP here prefer using it with optical.
If your TV has optical out or coax out then yes. Or analog out but not as 'ideal'.


----------



## Advil

What should I set my Macbook Pro's volume to when using this? I just got it and it's extremely crackly when changing volume through the computer and I can't listen to it. Trying to figure it all out.


----------



## bowei006

100%


----------



## Advil

Perfect thanks. I noticed the crackling was only when changing volume so I set it to 100% and left it alone and it's perfect. Using it as a DAC + pre-amp to a tube amp and it's glorious.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





advil said:


> Perfect thanks. I noticed the crackling was only when changing volume so I set it to 100% and left it alone and it's perfect. Using it as a DAC + pre-amp to a tube amp and it's glorious.


 
  100% is recommended for computer volumes as anything below it will cut 'bits' out of the signal. 24 bits with a bit cut out for most recordings is fine as its meant for some leg room but 16bits with some cuts may directly interfer with the music
   
  HOWEVER, Windows and Mac auto upconverts the bit depth to 32bit floating point etc etc to combat this problem. But how well it works on the fly and in terms of purity is something else to be asked.
   
  Just keep it at 100% volume on computer with all applications and use the amp in the E17 to change the volume. You don't need amps to be kept at 100%, just the 'DAC' of the thing you are using.


----------



## Rayzilla

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> Most people using MBP here prefer using it with optical.
> ...


 
  I would appreciate it if someone that is using optical post some close up pics of the cable and the connections?  Thank you in advance.


----------



## TrollDragon

rayzilla said:


> I would appreciate it if someone that is using optical post some close up pics of the cable and the connections?  Thank you in advance.



Here are the cables I use, the big one stays connected to my desktop all the time and the thin one I use with my MacBook C2D.
The cables comes default with the square optical end, you can get the adapters for the MacBook's headphone / optical jack since only one comes with the E17.
Or you can order cables with the TRS adapter molded into the end of it permanently.

The Large Cable.
The Small Cable.


The Mini Adapter.


Or you can just get one already with mini on both ends.


----------



## Rayzilla

Troll Dragon, thanks for posting the pics. can I ask another favour? would it be possible for you to show me where and how the cables plug into your MB and you E17? I saw some optic cables at a local store bit I was afraid to buy them because I didn't know how they connect and where. I do have one set of the adaptor from the E17 package. Thanks again.


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





rayzilla said:


> Troll Dragon, thanks for posting the pics. can I ask another favour? would it be possible for you to show me where and how the cables plug into your MB and you E17? I saw some optic cables at a local store bit I was afraid to buy them because I didn't know how they connect and where. I do have one set of the adaptor from the E17 package. Thanks again.


 

 I don't have a MPB so I can't help you there.
  But by memory of pictures Bowei and Co. posted here of MBPs, you first plug the optical cable (with optical-mini plug) into the 3.5mm headphone jack of the MBP. If you see red light coming out of it normally, it's because it can double as optical output.
   
  Likewise, you plug an optical mini into the SPDIF jack on the E17. Forgot if it's actually called the SPDIF plug but basically there's three 3.5mm ish sized jacks on the E17:
  1) Headphone out (upper right)
 2) AUX IN (lower right)
 3) SPDIF (upper left)


----------



## Rayzilla

Kalbee, thanks! Your description works for me. I know all about the SPDIF IN because every once in a while I mistakenly plug my headphone jack into it. lol
   
  The Optical wire that I saw at the local store had the squarish connectors at both ends, so based on that, I will need to get a second adaptor in addition to the one that came with the E17. Otherwise, I will need to find a cable the same as Troll Dragon's small cable. What would be the name of that kind of cable?


----------



## kalbee

Quote: 





rayzilla said:


> Kalbee, thanks! Your description works for me. I know all about the SPDIF IN because every once in a while I mistakenly plug my headphone jack into it. lol
> 
> The Optical wire that I saw at the local store had the squarish connectors at both ends, so based on that, I will need to get a second adaptor in addition to the one that came with the E17. Otherwise, I will need to find a cable the same as Troll Dragon's small cable. What would be the name of that kind of cable?


 

 Exactly.
  The name of that cable is still going to be an optical cable but with optical mini plugs. I think that's the name... it should otherwise work enough as a name.


----------



## Rayzilla

Thanks again Kalbee. I think this cable is what I am looking for. And this supplier is located in Hong Kong too.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/angle-toslink-mini-plug-mini-plug-digital-optical-cable-/390645060855
   
  BTW, did you know that your user name is very similar to a company that makes amazing snack/junk food that is available here in Hong Kong. It's called "Calbee".


----------



## kalbee

I know  they make awesome snacks.
  Didn't make this name based on that though hehe.


----------



## WheelchairMitch

Would this be a huge upgrade over the e11? Thanks


----------



## TrollDragon

wheelchairmitch said:


> Would this be a huge upgrade over the e11? Thanks


Define Upgrade...
If you are looking for a DAC to use with your computer via Optical or USB then yes.
If you want separate Bass and Treble controls with three gain settings and the ability to use it while charging then yes as well.

If you are just looking for more amplification then no, I would look at the FiiO E12, C&C BH or JDS Labs C5 if you just want more power.


----------



## imeem

i have the L7 connected to the E17. if i have the LO bypass switched to off, would the line out basically be a headphone out?


----------



## Advil

Anyone using this with q701s? How do they pair?


----------



## koiloco

Quote: 





advil said:


> Anyone using this with q701s? How do they pair?


 

 E17 + Q701 sounds great and warm.  Power could be debatable but enough IMO for decent portable sound.


----------



## Advil

Quote: 





koiloco said:


> E17 + Q701 sounds great and warm.  Power could be debatable but enough IMO for decent portable sound.


 
  I will likely never use those cans on the go honestly. I was wondering if it would work well just for an at-home rig. I also have a pa2v2 and a Little Dot II++, I'm assuming the latter would be the best idea. I can use the e17 as a dac + pre-amp to the tube amp. It's an older amp and I need some new power tubes but it should suffice I think.


----------



## koiloco

Quote: 





advil said:


> I will likely never use those cans on the go honestly. I was wondering if it would work well just for an at-home rig. I also have a pa2v2 and a Little Dot II++, I'm assuming the latter would be the best idea. I can use the e17 as a dac + pre-amp to the tube amp. It's an older amp and I need some new power tubes but it should suffice I think.


 

 Yes, even for at home, the E17 is fine.  I often use it as amp with my table as source driving the Q701.  E17 adds a nice touch of warm to the Q701.  +2 bass on the E17 would dial it in for me.  For the $, E17 is really amazing.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





imeem said:


> i have the L7 connected to the E17. if i have the LO bypass switched to off, would the line out basically be a headphone out?


 
   
  No, the L7 is used to provide a line out, not for an additional headphone out. The output from the L7 is meant to feed another outboard amplifier, i.e. using a 1/8" plug to dual RCA cables you could connect your E17 as a DAC to an amplifier with RCA line in. Disabling the LO bypass would just mean that the EQ functions of the E17 would not be passed to the L7 output.


----------



## jasonb

They sound good with the E17. They sound better with my vintage Pioneer though. 
  Quote: 





advil said:


> Anyone using this with q701s? How do they pair?


----------



## Mani ATH 87

The E17 works well with my new HE-400's, the power is _just_ enough. These headphones could probably use something a bit stronger but the E17 is sufficient and sounds good paired with the HE-400.


----------



## koiloco

Quote: 





mani ath 87 said:


> The E17 works well with my new HE-400's, the power is _just_ enough. These headphones could probably use something a bit stronger but the E17 is sufficient and sounds good paired with the HE-400.


 
  Amazing little dac/amp isn't it?


----------



## TrollDragon

koiloco said:


> Amazing little dac/amp isn't it?


+10 The E17 is very impressive!


----------



## Mangudai

Just got my E17 yesterday. Wow. I feel like all this time I haven't been listening to music correctly. The clarify and detail these give me compared to the very mediocre and down right bad sources ive used in the past is night and day. Yet, I know that im only scratching the surface.
   
  Will I notice a different with a "very high" quality interconnect cable compared to the one provided with the E17?
   
  Edit: Anyone ever have issues with it not turning on? Its been charging via usb for the last few hours and when I disconnected it, it turned off and just has a faint red ring around the power button. Had I just opened the package and it did this I wouldn't be concerned but it had a 4 out of 5 charge bar and had been charging for several hours earlier today. I'll give it 30 minutes and see if I can turn it on.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





mangudai said:


> Just got my E17 yesterday. Wow. I feel like all this time I haven't been listening to music correctly. The clarify and detail these give me compared to the very mediocre and down right bad sources ive used in the past is night and day. Yet, I know that im only scratching the surface.
> 
> Will I notice a different with a "very high" quality interconnect cable compared to the one provided with the E17?


 
  It depends on how you are connecting your E17 to your source. If you're connecting to the E17 via optical or coaxial SPDIF cable or via USB, my opinion is that you won't notice any difference by using a 'high end' interconnect. Digital is digital - it either works or it doesn't.
   
  Now if you're going analog, and I assume you are since the E17 only comes with digital adapters and analog cables, then the better quality interconnect MIGHT make a difference. Personally I can't tell the difference with my ears, but you might have better luck. That said, a good quality analog interconnect won't hurt at all, and likely will last longer than the one supplied by Fiio. I use an Apple iDevice as my source so I tend to use the Qables Silver Series performance LOD to connect to my E17. I've also used the Fiio L9 and L10 LODs, but both of them broke after a couple of months of use. My Qables LOD is still working well after 4 years and shows no sign of wear (I bought it for use with a different amp/DAC, but it now gets used exclusively with my E17).
   
  My suggestion - concentrate more on the source feeding your E17 than the cables connecting them. Finding a good source that is portable that supports playback of many formats and one that has a digital output is still my holy grail... there are some decent media players out there, but so far nothing that does everything I want. Your preferences are likely different so you might have more options. Good luck!


----------



## Mangudai

Thanks for breaking that down Agent, appreciate it.
   
   
   
  Just an update to my previous post, I'm still unable to turn the e17 on, regardless of whether or not its connected or disconnected via usb to my computer. Hold is off.


----------



## AgentXXL

Quote: 





mangudai said:


> Thanks for breaking that down Agent, appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Just an update to my previous post, I'm still unable to turn the e17 on, regardless of whether or not its connected or disconnected via usb to my computer. Hold is off.


 
  A few of us E17 owners have seen this problem - it's usually solved by doing a 'hard reset' by inserting a thin paperclip or something similar into the reset hole on the top of the unit (in the middle, between the headphone and SPDIF input jacks). Just push lightly and you'll activate the reset switch and that usually resolves the power on issue. And double check that your LOCK/HOLD switch is disabled (no orange visible). A few of us have accidentally been stung by that 'bug' too.


----------



## Mangudai

Thanks again, the hard reset fixed it. Hopefully that's something they fix.


----------



## takwing1hk

I would like to share my experience in upgrading the analog interconnect cable.
   
  Originally, I am using E17 with a Sony A866 player.
  Under this combination "player+amp" combintation, I cannot notice any difference in the sound by upgrading the interconnect cable (I am suing Shure 535).  And actually, I tried a few in the audio shop but still the same.
   
   
  Later, I had changed the player to Cowon Z2 (other remained unchanged)
  Then one day, while shopping around the audio shop, I tried the cables again (which is basically the same set of cables that I tried before). Surprisingly, I did notice a big improvement in the sound.   And difference cables gave different sound signatures too (as the material of the cables are different).
   
  So, my conclusion is that whether changing the interconnect cable will give you an improvement depends... and probably mostly depends on the player instead of the headphone.  (Buying the upgrade cable, I did tried it with my SHR940 and I did notice an improvement on the sound too)


----------



## autoexec

Hello H-F'ers, I asked this question two times already if I recall correctly but has always answered inaccurately (i.e. It should not behave like that/it's a bug). It is possible that it has answered correctly but I didn't watch this thread all the time so I must have missed it if so. So I'm gonna ask it again: My unit (I think it is one of the first batch because it has "E17" label on its back instead of "Alpen") is able to go +16db in USB mode. Okay, I know it may be a bug and should only allow to use +16db when set to AUX (idk if it is allowed for OPT/COX normally but I'm pretty sure it should be disabled for USB mode in normal units)? My question is is it safe to use it on USB mode? Or it's really a bug and might damage the internal components hence it is recommended to avoid using it when in USB mode? Thanks in advance!


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





autoexec said:


> Hello H-F'ers, I asked this question two times already if I recall correctly but has always answered inaccurately (i.e. It should not behave like that/it's a bug). It is possible that it has answered correctly but I didn't watch this thread all the time so I must have missed it if so. So I'm gonna ask it again: My unit (I think it is one of the first batch because it has "E17" label on its back instead of "Alpen") is able to go +16db in USB mode. Okay, I know it may be a bug and should only allow to use +16db when set to AUX (idk if it is allowed for OPT/COX normally but I'm pretty sure it should be disabled for USB mode in normal units)? My question is is it safe to use it on USB mode? Or it's really a bug and might damage the internal components hence it is recommended to avoid using it when in USB mode? Thanks in advance!


 
   
  Two parts answer:
   
  1) Yes, it is a firmware bug and you are not supposed to be able to use 12dB in USB-in (I assume your "16dB" is a typo). It should have automatically switch to 6dB gain with USB-in. However, because FiiO didn't implement the firmware tight enough, you are able to fool the system and select the 12dB gain.
   
  2) The reason FiiO doesn't want the user to use 12dB gain is because that is too high a gain for USB mode. It will just clip the amp section and result in distortion.


----------



## stopworking

Help, my E17 stopped working on my desktop.
It was working fine the day before but when I used it today no sound comes out other than some static pops when I have sound playing. The mixer shows that there is sound being played but I can't hear anything.

It still works on my laptop though. Any ideas?
Already tried a system restore, but it didn't help.
Have been using it for about a year now.


----------



## naddm

Quote: 





stopworking said:


> Help, my E17 stopped working on my desktop.
> It was working fine the day before but when I used it today no sound comes out other than some static pops when I have sound playing. The mixer shows that there is sound being played but I can't hear anything.
> 
> It still works on my laptop though. Any ideas?
> ...


 
   
  In control panel>Sound, is it set as default device?


----------



## stopworking

naddm said:


> In control panel>Sound, is it set as default device?




Yes, but no sound comes out from it other than some static popping sound.
I didn't change anything and have been using it for a long time now.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote: 





stopworking said:


> Yes, but no sound comes out from it other than some static popping sound.
> I didn't change anything and have been using it for a long time now.


 
  Not sure if this relates to your problem, but I was having issues using my E17+E09 combo with Winamp + WASAPI. My music would play fine for a while and then suddenly static would pop in and I'd have to restart Winamp to remove the static. I don't mean stop the song and hit play. I mean open task manager, exit out of the program, then restart. Sometimes, if I was watching YouTube or had another media player open, I'd have to close and restart all of them too.

 I figured the problem was with Winamp and the WASAPI protocol I was running, so I deleted Winamp and started using foobar2000 with WASAPI. The static problem vanished and now I was able to enjoy my playlist without restarting my music player until I wanted to skip a track. foobar would stop outputting sound completely and I wasn't able to start the next track or ANY song in my library without a total reboot of the program.

 I didn't know what else to do so I uninstalled foobar, WASAPI, and all of my E17 drivers and then re-installed them. Haven't had a problem since.


----------



## Rich887

good read


----------



## Advil

quick question: i got the L7 so I can get a line-level signal to my other amp and use my E17 as a DAC only. I switched the little "LO Bypass" to make it work and everything works fine but do I need to switch that back when I'm using this normally? I'm still getting a signal and it sounds fine so I think it's fine... I just don't get the point of putting it there if it still works?


----------



## TrollDragon

When my E17 is docked to my E09K I just want straight unmodified audio out of the E09K to my amp. I switch the LO on and that gives me this function. When I take the E17 with me the buttons still control the bass, treble and volume to the headphone jack. So I don't ever have to move the LO switch to off.

With the LO switch off and the E17 docked I have to increase the volume on the E17 to get a line out level on the E09K plus I personally don't want and EQ to my amp from the E17.

Make any sense?


----------



## Advil

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> When my E17 is docked to my E09K I just want straight unmodified audio out of the E09K to my amp. I switch the LO on and that gives me this function. When I take the E17 with me the buttons still control the bass, treble and volume to the headphone jack. So I don't ever have to move the LO switch to off.
> 
> With the LO switch off and the E17 docked I have to increase the volume on the E17 to get a line out level on the E09K plus I personally don't want and EQ to my amp from the E17.
> 
> Make any sense?


 
  Oh so the eq settings are disabled when it's switched on? I thought it meant I was getting unamped signal 100% (including disabling the eq) so it made no sense that the volume was still working.


----------



## TrollDragon

That's why they call it LO Bypass, when you switch it on, the volume and bass / treble controls have no effect out of your L7 and you are getting a line level output. But if you plug headphones in up top the controls still work.
   
  The LO Bypass is only for use with the E09K or L7 and it makes it convenient for us that use the E17 as both a portable and desktop so you don't have to fiddle with settings when you dock it.


----------



## Mitchb2020

--


----------



## TrollDragon

Quote: 





mitchb2020 said:


> anyone interested in a pair of these ?


 
  Dude it's against the rules to sell you stuff not in the F/S threads, also not to mention rude.
  If you don't have enough time here to get involved in the community so you can post in the F/S section, they put them on eBay.
   
  You will also have a better chance of selling your stuff if you actually filled in some profile information as well.


----------



## Mitchb2020

my bad hey


----------



## Mitchb2020

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Dude it's against the rules to sell you stuff not in the F/S threads, also not to mention rude.
> If you don't have enough time here to get involved in the community so you can post in the F/S section, they put them on eBay.
> 
> You will also have a better chance of selling your stuff if you actually filled in some profile information as well.


 
  Done )


----------



## TrollDragon

mitchb2020 said:


> Done )


All is cool!


----------



## shrkz

I've had the e17 for about 6 months now just recently, it started making crackly/staticy sounds. This usually happens when sound hasn't played in a while so for example when I pause a video and play it later. And since I don't have sound playing 24/7, this happens a lot and is starting to be very annoying. The sounds can be described as a distorted version of the original sound or silent with short pops. Anyone know how to fix this?


----------



## Advil

This is actually driving my new Q701's pretty well. I'm surprised. Volume is all the way up to 57 with no gain but it's loud.


----------



## TrollDragon

shrkz said:


> I've had the e17 for about 6 months now just recently, it started making crackly/staticy sounds. This usually happens when sound hasn't played in a while so for example when I pause a video and play it later. And since I don't have sound playing 24/7, this happens a lot and is starting to be very annoying. The sounds can be described as a distorted version of the original sound or silent with short pops. Anyone know how to fix this?


Have you tried a pin in the reset hole at the top of the unit. Give it a reset and see if that fixes your problem.


----------



## TrollDragon

advil said:


> This is actually driving my new Q701's pretty well. I'm surprised. Volume is all the way up to 57 with no gain but it's loud.


Bring your gain up, my C3 has a very low output and when I use the E17 with my DT880 Pro's I move the gain to 12dB and all is good.


----------



## shrkz

I've tried that multiple times with no luck. What I also tried was disabling usb charge and letting the power completely drain.


----------



## shrkz

Oh I forgot to mention I temporarily solve this every time by just unplugging the usb and plugging it back in.


----------



## TrollDragon

Different port and different USB cable as well? I think someone else here went and removed it from the device manager while it was connected and then rebooted so it would get reinstalled. 

Do you have another computer to try it on or a friend's computer. That way you will know if it is the E17 or your box.


----------



## kalbee

I had similar problems before although the sound became pretty much alien speech instead of the beautiful vocals I was prepared to hear. It was a windows-side driver error. Not entirely sure what good ways to perma fix it since i dont remember what I did to mine, though it works well now.


----------



## shrkz

Quote: 





kalbee said:


> I had similar problems before although the sound became pretty much alien speech instead of the beautiful vocals I was prepared to hear. It was a windows-side driver error. Not entirely sure what good ways to perma fix it since i dont remember what I did to mine, though it works well now.


 
   
  I listen to music without vocals so that's what I was describing above. People do sound like robots when this happens.
  It may be driver related, as I had usb issues in the past.


----------



## shrkz

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Different port and different USB cable as well? I think someone else here went and removed it from the device manager while it was connected and then rebooted so it would get reinstalled.
> 
> Do you have another computer to try it on or a friend's computer. That way you will know if it is the E17 or your box.


 
   


 Tried all ports and a different USB cable with no luck. I could try it on my laptop but I have a lot of important work to do on my main computer. Don't think I can.


----------



## TrollDragon

Good luck then, hope you figure out the problem, someone else will probably chime in with the fix before too long.


----------



## Mitchb2020

May do nothing but try a different cable
The one it ships with usually breaks from friends i know who have the e17
Worth a shot


----------



## shrkz

Quote: 





mitchb2020 said:


> May do nothing but try a different cable
> The one it ships with usually breaks from friends i know who have the e17
> Worth a shot


 
  Already tried another micro usb cable.


----------



## shrkz

Think this is further proof it may be driver/software related. It happened again so I unchecked and rechecked the sample rates in sound properties.


----------



## shrkz

Well this is a first. Just since yesterday, it started happening while sound was already playing.


----------



## SpiderNhan

I noticed that when I left USB charge ON while using the E17 I would get weird crackling sounds and glitches. Turning it OFF eliminated those problems.


----------



## shrkz

So I tried something and changed my sample rates to only 48.0 kHz and and made the default format 2 channel, 24 bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality). Before it was with 96 kHz on both. I haven't had the static problem all day.


----------



## shrkz

Spoke too soon. It started happening again.


----------



## TrollDragon

You really need to try the E17 on another computer to eliminate one or the other.


----------



## shrkz

Again, I have stuff to do on my main computer so I don't have time to play random videos and songs on my laptop until it happens which may take at least a day. I'm thinking of just buying a desktop dac/amp that won't get easily pulled around with my headphone cord and has a knob since buttons can be time consuming. I f it happens with that one, I'll know it's my computer.


----------



## masterofthumbs

I just recently had an issue where my E17 just suddenly stopped working in Windows 7. No matter which USB port I plugged it into, the device wouldn't show up in device manager nor would Windows make any mention of the device. I ended up just using the aux input on it which led to the battery dying one night. The next morning I plugged it in and Windows picked it up immediately. Before this however, I also re-installed the Fiio driver so I'm not sure if it was the E17 or Windows at fault. I even tried a different USB cable and other ports and that did nothing.
   
  Other than that little hiccup, my E17 has been working great since I got it. Normally the screen is too bright to leave on at night since my computer is in my bedroom so I flip the hold switch as much as possible, or even turn it off since the blue LED is sometimes too bright. This summer however, my computer wasn't in my room so I got lazy about flipping the switch/turning it off. Now I have a slight ghosting on the screen that is sometimes visible when you are on something other than USB and a volume of 28. So be sure to flip that switch whenever possible.


----------



## White Lotus

I still love my E17.


----------



## Advil

Anyone using this with a tv? I have a vizio and was thinking of using the optical out to this then using headphones and disabling the tv speaker... that would work right?


----------



## kalbee

advil said:


> Anyone using this with a tv? I have a vizio and was thinking of using the optical out to this then using headphones and disabling the tv speaker... that would work right?



Yup it works (or should).
The only TV I got at home is decently old so there's no such thing as optical out but I do optical out from my PS3 without problems. Someone else did has problems though...


----------



## mrjrmy

Hello everyone!  I purchased my FiiO E09k+E17 combo recently and I have it connected via USB 2.0 to my Win8 64-bit PC (w/ onboard sound card from my ASUS P87 Sabertooth MoBo).  I've been having some issues with it ever since I got it and haven't found a solution.  I usually plug my Sennheiser HD555s in, if that matters at all.
  
 At first, I had an issue where I all heard from the E17 was static.  I installed the E17 drivers from the FiiO website and all was good.  Then, about a day later, I would get no audio out into my headphones.  So, I just power off my E09k (which also turns off my E17) and turn it back on.  Voila, let there be sound.
  
 Now, I'm getting consistent 24-bit, 96k audio (which I set it to via the FiiO program) from it.  I also have checked off the various frequencies available through the Win8 Control Panel > Sound Devices "Properties" menu.  
  
 The newest issue I'm getting is a *BSOD* due to a USB issue (First BSODs on my gaming rig too :\).  I've rotated USB ports and I still get the BSOD every 5 to 7 hours whenever I use the E17 as my audio output device.  
  
 Any advice, tips, or guidance is much appreciated.  Thank you!


----------



## TrollDragon

USB 3 ports can sometimes cause trouble with the E17, try to make sure its in a USB 2 port.

What drivers did you install? There are no drivers needed as the E17 is USB Audio Class 1 compliant which is supported by default in the OS.


----------



## mrjrmy

trolldragon said:


> USB 3 ports can sometimes cause trouble with the E17, try to make sure its in a USB 2 port.
> 
> What drivers did you install? There are no drivers needed as the E17 is USB Audio Class 1 compliant which is supported by default in the OS.


 
  
 Yeah; I've been lurking on this forum (though not this particular thread) so I plugged my FiiO combo into a USB 2 port.  
  
 The driver I installed was the Official FiiO-E17 ASIO Driver released on February 23, 2013. I have it running on Compatibility Mode on a Win7 setting.  Do you recommend that I uninstall it? 
  
 Thanks for the tips though!


----------



## TrollDragon

Yes I would personally get rid of it, my E09K/E17 has no problems, I run Windows 7 64 not 8 though.

I use it for games and music is with foobar2000's WASAPI driver.

Try getting rid of that driver and see what happens.


----------



## shrkz

Are none of the encoded formats in the sound properties window supposed to work? They've all given off static sounds when I press Test since I got it.


----------



## mrjrmy

trolldragon said:


> Yes I would personally get rid of it, my E09K/E17 has no problems, I run Windows 7 64 not 8 though.
> 
> I use it for games and music is with foobar2000's WASAPI driver.
> 
> Try getting rid of that driver and see what happens.


 
 Thank you!  I'll post my progress tomorrow.
  
 I'll also look up what WASAPI is haha.


----------



## kalbee

I've used the E17 with Windows 8 prior to Win8 hit the shelves... gotta say it was EXTREMELY buggy at first but it sort of fixed itself. Both with the Windows updates (I mean, it was on the verge of worldwide release so various bug fixes) and deselecting some of the sample rate formats. But never ever had to manually install any other driver or software, nor ever had BSOD. Try reverting back to just letting Windows handle the drivers stuff.


----------



## TrollDragon

shrkz said:


> Are none of the encoded formats in the sound properties window supposed to work? They've all given off static sounds when I press Test since I got it.


The E17 does not support DTS, DSD or the MS one.


----------



## mrjrmy

kalbee said:


> I've used the E17 with Windows 8 prior to Win8 hit the shelves... gotta say it was EXTREMELY buggy at first but it sort of fixed itself. Both with the Windows updates (I mean, it was on the verge of worldwide release so various bug fixes) and deselecting some of the sample rate formats. But never ever had to manually install any other driver or software, nor ever had BSOD. Try reverting back to just letting Windows handle the drivers stuff.


 
 I will do that.  Thanks!  I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.


----------



## shrkz

Well just an update on my problem. It's getting worse and more frequent everyday so I decided to unplug it and use my first $50 usb sound card  It sounds way worse, but at least the sound works 24/7. Going to see if I can send it back to FiiO to check if there is anything wrong.


----------



## kalbee

Have you tried with any other computers yet?
 A random public computer may even work as test subject... just bring a bit of music on a USB drive.


----------



## shrkz

Are there any specific settings I should use? I was thinking maybe it has to do with that.
  
 Here are mine. http://imgur.com/a/EP5Go


----------



## bowei006

Try general 44100


----------



## TrollDragon

I have 44.1, 48, 96 as the only things checked. I also set my default audio to 2 Channel 96KHz as well.

If you are trying to play a DTS audio file, without a decoder it will sound like static.


----------



## Ashade

shrkz said:


> Are there any specific settings I should use? I was thinking maybe it has to do with that.
> 
> Here are mine. http://imgur.com/a/EP5Go




I can tell you I had tons of problems with 96/24 in either Mac or Windows. Try 48, worked better for me.


----------



## shrkz

ashade said:


> I can tell you I had tons of problems with 96/24 in either Mac or Windows. Try 48, worked better for me.


 
 If I set it to 48, wouldn't it not play at 96 at all?


----------



## Ashade

It wouldn't, but if the drivers are giving you troubles and the sound I is actually worse than 48... Take it as a temporal solution till you get time to figure out the actual problem. Better clean sound than clipping or something worse.


----------



## kalbee

The real question sometimes is "how many 96k album do you actually have", and some are often just up sampled anyway.

As I recall there might have even discussions in the past saying that E17's USB DAC only supports up till 48k and its the coax/optical that goes till 96k?


----------



## TrollDragon

USB 24/96
Optical 24/192

Are what the E17 supports and I have used both. My E17 and computer stay at 24/96 all the time in music and games without an issue.


----------



## Ashade

trolldragon said:


> USB 24/96
> Optical 24/192
> 
> Are what the E17 supports and I have used both. My E17 and computer stay at 24/96 all the time in music and games without an issue.




You are exactly right, what I had problems with was 24/192 through USB, 24/96 is fine through USB.


----------



## shrkz

ashade said:


> You are exactly right, what I had problems with was 24/192 through USB, 24/96 is fine through USB.


 
 How did you even get an option of 24/192?


----------



## Ashade

I remember getting it in Mac. Maybe I remember wrong . What it's for sure correct is that I got a lot of grainy sounds with the highest options, and never got it to work properly. Maybe it was actually 24/96. Not a problem with the rest of them.


----------



## shrkz

Still happens with 16/48. Trying 16/41 now.


----------



## Ashade

shrkz said:


> Still happens with 16/48. Trying 16/41 now.




:confused_face:


----------



## kalbee

shrkz said:


> Still happens with 16/48. Trying 16/41 now.



Still getting the alien speak? Or are we talking more just (background) noise and static?


----------



## shrkz

kalbee said:


> Still getting the alien speak? Or are we talking more just (background) noise and static?


 
 Yes. It still makes people sound like robots once in a while.


----------



## kalbee

You should contact FiiO; something obviously isn't working at this point.
  
 Though it would still be best if you're able to try it on another computer. It doesn't matter if you won't be using it on any other computer; what matters is to know which piece of equipment or software is at fault. No point in getting a replacement unit if only to find out that your computer drivers are the ones that are messed up, etc.


----------



## shrkz

I contacted FiiO more than a week ago and I've been getting very slow responses.
 I'm starting to hear quiet static when nothing is playing at random times now.


----------



## bowei006

shrkz said:


> I contacted FiiO more than a week ago and I've been getting very slow responses.
> I'm starting to hear quiet static when nothing is playing at random times now.


 
  
 Make sure no other cables are near the E17, your computer, or any part of your setup
  
 I had the same thing with the E17. One of the cables leading to the E17 was on top of and near my light cable and static creeped in


----------



## shrkz

Err how come the pitch gets higher as I turn up the volume? Things are so squeaky at 60 (using dt770).


----------



## autoexec

clieos said:


> Two parts answer:
> 
> 1) Yes, it is a firmware bug and you are not supposed to be able to use 12dB in USB-in (I assume your "16dB" is a typo). It should have automatically switch to 6dB gain with USB-in. However, because FiiO didn't implement the firmware tight enough, you are able to fool the system and select the 12dB gain.
> 
> 2) The reason FiiO doesn't want the user to use 12dB gain is because that is too high a gain for USB mode. It will just clip the amp section and result in distortion.




A very late Thank You for your detailed answer!  Though I don't hear the E17 clip when set to +12db (it wasn't typo earlier it's really me thinking wrong since I don't have my E17 with me when I asked the question) using USB mode. I guess I'll have to listen again very carefully for any possible clippings..


----------



## mrjrmy

mrjrmy said:


> I will do that.  Thanks!  I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.


 
  
 Ok... so I've tried using it without the Driver/ ASIO Program and it works relatively well.  I still get the occasional hiccup where the sound disappears while the audio levels change in my Sound/Speaker/Volume thing in my notification bar but it is much better than a BSOD.  
  
 Right now, my workaround is to turn off the amp and DAC and turn it back to get audio again.  If anyone has any tips about getting around this little hiccup, it'd be much appreciated.  If not, thanks for everyone's help!


----------



## steveb

Recently my e17 / e9 combo has been giving me trouble.  I have to prop the e17 forward in the dock to get USB lock and re-dock it a few times to get both channels working.  Has anyone heard of similar problems?  I searched but didn't come across anything.


----------



## TrollDragon

steveb said:


> Recently my e17 / e9 combo has been giving me trouble.  I have to prop the e17 forward in the dock to get USB lock and re-dock it a few times to get both channels working.  Has anyone heard of similar problems?  I searched but didn't come across anything.


 
  
 The FiiO dock connector is not up to Apple Dock quality in my opinion, one has to be really careful with it for sure. It really sounds to me like a connector problem, try my sloppy connector fit fix and see if it helps.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/5610#post_9268523
  
 Other than that contact James from FiiO here on Head-Fi and let him know about it.
 Good Luck!


----------



## marko93101

If I was getting the E09k/E17 combo but could only get it one piece at a time, so I'd have one for a month or 2 without the other, would I be best getting the E17 first?


----------



## SpiderNhan

marko93101 said:


> If I was getting the E09k/E17 combo but could only get it one piece at a time, so I'd have one for a month or 2 without the other, would I be best getting the E17 first?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## marko93101

spidernhan said:


> Yes.


 
  
 Short and sweet, thanks!


----------



## Ashade

Indeed!


----------



## SGT A-hole

I just ordered mine, I feel like a little kid waiting for santa to come


----------



## Ashade

That feeling sounds familiar! Great device for the price, really amazing.


----------



## Allucid

Bought the ALPEN a while ago, waiting for the Mont Blanc to come.


----------



## pervysage

Just noticed this.
  
 When you have the bypass switch on the E17 in the down position (so volume is controlled by the E9K) why is it louder than when you have the bypass switch in the up position? Volume is maxed out at 60 but the down position is still louder.
  
 Is it because the gain is turned up when you have it in the down position? When the switch is in the up position, I have the gain setting set to 0 on the E17. Does it automatically raise the gain when you put the switch in the down position? (I'm assuming it's raising the gain to 6 by itself, even though the screen says 0).


----------



## TrollDragon

It bypasses all the onboard volume & EQ controls so you get line out levels to the E09K.

Try setting your gain to 6 and see if the output is the same with the switch up and volume 60.


----------



## imeem

i notice today that when i use the E17 with headphones, i can hear a noise that is similar to 8/16 bit video game (something from like Asteroids from example). Happens a few times in a song; never notice this with speakers w/line out. I tried different headphones and it still occurs.
  
 Going to try different usb cable/port, different music player, and OS.
  
 BTW I also  get BSOD related to asio on windows 7 too. Guess asio doesn't like my computer.


----------



## TrollDragon

Remove the ASIO drivers you don't need them. Also is there a cell phone close by? If so move it to another room and see if the noise goes away.


----------



## imeem

trolldragon said:


> Remove the ASIO drivers you don't need them. Also is there a cell phone close by? If so move it to another room and see if the noise goes away.


 
  
 I think it may be a software-related issue because it does not happen on windows 8 with foosbar (direct sound). the problem occurred on windows 7 with jriver media center (asio and wasapi).


----------



## SGT A-hole

I have the 5.5gen ipod video and I was wondering if it would be worth getting the L9 cable for use with the e17 or if I should just stick to the stock 3.5mm cable the e17 comes with.


----------



## kcazbarach

I kind of forget, the eq settings for the e17 only function when it's being used as an amp correct? If i used it solely as a DAC it wouldn't? or am I completely off on both counts? thanks


----------



## kcazbarach

sgt a-hole said:


> I have the 5.5gen ipod video and I was wondering if it would be worth getting the L9 cable for use with the e17 or if I should just stick to the stock 3.5mm cable the e17 comes with.


 
 Yes get the l9, I got my e17 back 5-6 months ago. but I believe you're talking about the 3.5mm---3.5m cable right?
  
 You want to use the L9 cable because it'll bypass the amp inside your ipod video into the e17.
 If you use the stock 3.5mm cable, i believe you'd be dual amping (a big no no) through your ipod's internal amp and the e17.
  
  
 tl;dr-get the L9, it's a lineout dock. You can only usually bypass the internal amp of apple products (except i believe a mod you can do with the ipad 2 and a camera kit) but you'll have to use the DAC of the the apple products unless u pay heavy money (not worth it, just get another music device at that point imo)


----------



## kcazbarach

imeem said:


> i notice today that when i use the E17 with headphones, i can hear a noise that is similar to 8/16 bit video game (something from like Asteroids from example). Happens a few times in a song; never notice this with speakers w/line out. I tried different headphones and it still occurs.
> 
> Going to try different usb cable/port, different music player, and OS.
> 
> BTW I also  get BSOD related to asio on windows 7 too. Guess asio doesn't like my computer.


 
  
 definitely give wasapi (event) a try. for some reason it works really well for me now in foobar-possibly an update?
  
 I used asio for a long time because wasapi didn't work well on my computer (i got a hitches and clicks).


----------



## HAN2929

jakenz said:


> Hi guys, apologies if this has been asked and answered before in the 400 pages of this thread but a bit of skimming and keyword searching drew a blank...
> 
> Just got a second hand Fiio E17 which I'm using connected to my galaxy S4 via USB OTG cable. Sound is much improved which is great. The issue is the S4 battery is draining at what is subjectively 1.5-2x the normal rate - and this is with USB charging turned off on the E17. Other settings: gain set to zero, vol at 18, tone settings all flat.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Will the E17 work with Galaxy S3? I am considering buying the Fiio E17.


----------



## Ashade

Initially not. You should consider the E07K or wait to E18 to be released.


----------



## HAN2929

Will that work with S3? I also heard about the Fiio E18, I am also considering that but will wait for reviews first.


----------



## Ashade

The E07K "should" work with the S3. Some people has reported problems though. The international version works almost 99% sure and the US variants should be able to work, if not with the stock kernel, with some custom ROMs and kernels. 
  
 E17 is practically sure will not work.


----------



## doodlyd

Can someone explain me. I got Note 3  and Fiio17  connected via USB everything is working , but i dont understand this
 With note 3 Fiio17 shows 48k and 16bit  but when i plug it to PC  it shows 96 /24 (by the way i set in manualy with the driver)
  
 So do i need to know something or this is normal and i would get only 48/16 via usb and my phone ?
  
  
  
 Thx


----------



## Ashade

As far as I know, that's what you get.


----------



## DanBa

doodlyd said:


> Can someone explain me. I got Note 3  and Fiio17  connected via USB everything is working , but i dont understand this
> With note 3 Fiio17 shows 48k and 16bit  but when i plug it to PC  it shows 96 /24 (by the way i set in manualy with the driver)
> 
> So do i need to know something or this is normal and i would get only 48/16 via usb and my phone ?
> ...


 
  
 The USB Audio Recorder PRO app, available on Google Play store, can output 96/24 PCM via USB.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3075#post_9785711
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3045#post_9781111


----------



## DanBa

han2929 said:


> Will the E17 work with Galaxy S3? I am considering buying the Fiio E17.


 
  
 The stock Galaxy S3, using the USB Audio Recorder PRO app available on Google Play store, can work with the FiiO E17.
 The stock Galaxy S3, using other music player or streaming app, won't work with the FiiO E17.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3135


----------



## Darkspike

Quote:


danba said:


> The USB Audio Recorder PRO app, available on Google Play store, can output 96/24 PCM via USB.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3075#post_9785711
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3045#post_9781111


 
  
 Hi all, 
  
 Me too stuck at 48k/16bit using Galaxy Note 3 with Fiio E17.
 Tried USB Audio Recorder Pro Trial version, it also given the same output result with flac music file.
  
 Btw, does that means that Note 3 can use Fiio E17 as USB audio out in stock and bypassing the on board audio chip?
  
 Any advice?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## DanBa

darkspike said:


> Me too stuck at 48k/16bit using Galaxy Note 3 with Fiio E17.
> Tried USB Audio Recorder Pro Trial version, it also given the same output result with flac music file.


 
  
 "since the default music player is not able to play higher bitrates (the default player was able to play 16bit/48khz flac and wav) I had to download USB Audio Recorder Pro. It was able to play 24bit/96khz with the Fiio E17"
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2460#post_9506391
  

  

  
  
  


darkspike said:


> Btw, does that means that Note 3 can use Fiio E17 as USB audio out in stock and bypassing the on board audio chip?


 
  
 Yes, the stock Galaxy Note 3 can output a digital USB audio stream towards the FiiO E17 USB DAC/amp using its stock music player and bypassing its internal DAC/amp.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/3210


----------



## SGT A-hole

My E17 finally came in today. I can't wait to get off work and give this bad larry a try.


----------



## kalbee

sgt a-hole said:


> I have the 5.5gen ipod video and I was wondering if it would be worth getting the L9 cable for use with the e17 or if I should just stick to the stock 3.5mm cable the e17 comes with.



I'd actually recommend the L11 instead. It's bulkier overall but you can at least change the cables when they die. My L9 did not last a week and a half but I think it was an isolated case.


----------



## SGT A-hole

I actually went ahead and just got the L3 cable. Loving the E17 so far.


----------



## Allucid

sgt a-hole said:


> I actually went ahead and just got the L3 cable. Loving the E17 so far.



I bought the L11, but it seems its taking its time to get here.


----------



## SGT A-hole

I know the feeling. It took my E17 a month to get to me.


----------



## Devrim

Hello everyone,
  
 I received my E17 today and I had a question.
  
 I won't be using the device alot while I'm traveling so most times it will be on my desk.
 So can I leave my E17 always plugged in, in the USB?
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## Allucid

sgt a-hole said:


> I know the feeling. It took my E17 a month to get to me.



I bought my E17 when I was in the UK, so I got it for xmas. 
My E12 Mont Blanc (now returned) took a day to get to me. You just need to find the right websites. 


devrim said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I received my E17 today and I had a question.
> 
> ...



You probably could, but after full charge there's no need to have it charging more. This could create unnecessary heat, and as the amp is made out of metal, over a long period of time (talking weeks on end on usb charge) could destroy the amp. 

To play it safe, I'd use the amp when I'd need it, if I were you.


----------



## kalbee

Leaving it plugged in does not mean it would be charging all the time, especially if it was plugged into the computer.
 Assuming the computer is off when you're on your trips and also assuming you did not plug it into a USB port that is on regardless of your computer being shut off or not.
 In either case, the E17 still has function to control USB charging and it would probably be ideal to disengage that function when you go off for trips.
  
 Generally speaking, while using the E17 as DAC/AMP with USB as source input, the E17 will take most of the power draw directly from the computer so you can reach way more run time than when you rely solely on the battery (i.e. while using the E17 on the go, or using it without USB cables plugged with COAX/AUX/OPT as source input). Unless you are gone for months on end, for which case there isn't much you can do, this would be the best thing to do. Once you get back you can turn on the USB charging function for the day and turn it off again when the battery is recharged.


----------



## bowei006

E17 stops charging once it gets to full power and does have power management.


----------



## Devrim

Hello guys,
  
 Thanks for the replies.
 I will rarely use the device while I'm on the road so I think 99% of the time it will be connected to my pc by USB. I haven't been able to use my toslink cable but I'm gonna guess it gives no power to recharge the device. If it has proper power management I can probably leave the cable connected since the usb power shuts down when I shutdown my computer.
  
 Also does the device automaticly shutdown if it has no source after x minutes or do I have to shut it down manually?


----------



## AgentXXL

devrim said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Thanks for the replies.
> I will rarely use the device while I'm on the road so I think 99% of the time it will be connected to my pc by USB. I haven't been able to use my toslink cable but I'm gonna guess it gives no power to recharge the device. If it has proper power management I can probably leave the cable connected since the usb power shuts down when I shutdown my computer.
> ...


 
  
 The E17 doesn't have an idle timeout setting - you will have to shut it down manually.
  
 Dale


----------



## Allucid

devrim said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Thanks for the replies.
> I will rarely use the device while I'm on the road so I think 99% of the time it will be connected to my pc by USB. I haven't been able to use my toslink cable but I'm gonna guess it gives no power to recharge the device. If it has proper power management I can probably leave the cable connected since the usb power shuts down when I shutdown my computer.
> ...



The E17 has a sleep setting - it shuts off after x amount of minutes if you tell it to.


----------



## Devrim

allucid said:


> The E17 has a sleep setting - it shuts off after x amount of minutes if you tell it to.


 
  
 Yeah I noticed that but it seems you need to manually select the amount of minutes every time.
  


agentxxl said:


> The E17 doesn't have an idle timeout setting - you will have to shut it down manually.
> 
> Dale


 
  
 Ok thanks. Not a big hassle tho.
  
 After a day of use I'm fairly happy with the device.


----------



## thehogester

Apologies if this has been asked before, but can somebody explain to me what the gain setting is for? When would i adjust the gain, rather than just turning up the volume?


----------



## bowei006

thehogester said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before, but can somebody explain to me what the gain setting is for? When would i adjust the gain, rather than just turning up the volume?


 
 When you plug a harder to drive headphone in.


----------



## Allucid

thehogester said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before, but can somebody explain to me what the gain setting is for? When would i adjust the gain, rather than just turning up the volume?



Gain basically makes the amp louder, but I have my E17 on 12 gain, and the volume on normal. 
For me it works for my headphones this way:
12 gain makes my iPod volume redundant. 

It also makes the bass and treble settings noticeable. 

I use the V-Moda M-100. I've found out the hard way it's hard to amp, doesn't need an amp either.


----------



## TrollDragon

allucid said:


> I use the V-Moda M-100. I've found out the hard way it's hard to amp, doesn't need an amp either.


Can we get an English translation on that... 

Bass & Treble controls work in all gain settings except for when LO Bypass switch is enabled.

The LOD cable will bypass an iPod volume control a mini to mini cable wil not.
On my Colorfly C3 the output is very low so I have the gain setting of the E17 on 12. When I have my iPod connected with a LOD L9 cable I only need a gain of 6 to get the same range of volume as with 12 on the C3 since the output of the iPod is higher.
Your best option using an iPod with the E17 is to get a LOD cable, then you don't have to bother with the volume setting on the iPod at all, just use the E17's.


----------



## Allucid

trolldragon said:


> allucid said:
> 
> 
> > I use the V-Moda M-100. I've found out the hard way it's hard to amp, doesn't need an amp either.
> ...



I use the V-Moda M-100s. 
They're hard to amp. They need high gain on the E17, whereas on the E12 they don't need a gain, because if you try, your ears will blow up. 

The M-100s don't need an amp. They're hard to amp anyway, if you wanted to amp them (which is expensive, probably not worth it) You'd need something like the Vamp Verza or Headstage Arrow. 
As in, the M-100s don't need an amp necessarily, they sound good as is.


----------



## harkohark

SO annoyed with this amplifier. This is the THIRD one I have bought that has had the stupid headphone jack disintegrate. Its annoying because every seller that has them (ebay/amazon) that is not in china seems to have the old stock. As a result, I have to contact fiio and repair them myself.


----------



## Allucid

harkohark said:


> SO annoyed with this amplifier. This is the THIRD one I have bought that has had the stupid headphone jack disintegrate. Its annoying because every seller that has them (ebay/amazon) that is not in china seems to have the old stock. As a result, I have to contact fiio and repair them myself.



Good thing contacting FiiO is most times repair is free, and they'll put an new audio jack in.


----------



## harkohark

They wanted to send the jack to me and have me do it.


----------



## TrollDragon

harkohark said:


> They wanted to send the jack to me and have me do it.


 
 Yeah... cause it's so much better to spend $35 on a tracked package back to mainland China and wait 8 or 9 weeks turnaround, than 10 minutes with a soldering iron...


----------



## kalbee

harkohark said:


> They wanted to send the jack to me and have me do it.


 
 I've seen that option given to me before, although instead FiiO contacted my "local" authorized dealer from whom I got the E17 from, and had him replace it for me. That way he seller can just send it back to FiiO with whatever next package he has to send, and FiiO can just reimburse the seller by shipping an extra E17 in their next shipment to them.
  
 Don't forget FiiO is still relatively small compared to big consumer brands. By suggesting to send you the parts for a self repair saves _you _time, shipping fee & hassle, and the wait. But, well, maybe you can see if they can do for you what they provided for me. I thus lost the S/N 999 unit but at least this one is functional.


----------



## pteixeira

hi there!
  
 is it possible to use the E17 as a DAC only?
  
 I have an old stereo system hooked up to my laptop so I can use the larger speakers and I would like to use the DAC funcionality when I'm not using the headphones while I'm at my laptop...
  
 If I understood correctly, if I just plug it in the middle of the line (laptop >> E17 >>coaxial cable>> stereo system), I'm going to be double amping which might not be that good (stereo has an amp)..
  
 this should be possible if I use an LOD and the LO BYPASS function, right? or the LO BYPASS only works with the E09k?


----------



## TrollDragon

The COAX is an input not an output, what you need is a FiiO L7 line out dock to connect to your stereo.
 www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004QVNS0S

Then you move the LO Bypass switch to on and it will function without double amping. It says for the E7 but it works for the E17 as well.


----------



## pteixeira

awesome thank you very much


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Hey everyone,
 I have had my fiio e17 for while now and always used it with my pc.
 However recently I have been experiencing a problem. 
  
 When I plug my fiio e17 into the pc, I can never get the audio to come through the fiio, instead it just keeps playing out of the speakers.
  
 The fiio still works, as it works fine with my macbook pro and the pc also reads it straight away when I plug it in.
  
 I have tried uninstalling the fiio's drivers and even unplugged the speakers but it jut doesn't want to let audio through the fiio.
  
 Any ideas or help would be appreciated.
  
 thanks.


----------



## SGT A-hole

noodleboy91 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> 
> I have had my fiio e17 for while now and always used it with my pc.
> ...



 


Have you tried switching to the E17 as your audio device in your control panel. If not, go to control panel, then look under devices and it should have a selection for audio devices. Once you open up your audio devices the E17 SHOULD be listed there. Simply select it as your default and you should be good to go.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

> Have you tried switching to the E17 as your audio device in your control panel. If not, go to control panel, then look under devices and it should have a selection for audio devices. Once you open up your audio devices the E17 SHOULD be listed there. Simply select it as your default and you should be good to go.


 
  
 Hey thanks for the reply.
 Yeah I have tried that but it never seems to do anything the big green tick always stays on the speakers for the default device and when I disable the speakers drivers, then set the fiio as default device it still doesn't produce any audio.. Very strange.. I don't get it because it has worked fine all this time and just now it seems to stop working with the pc..


----------



## AgentXXL

noodleboy91 said:


> Hey everyone,
> I have had my fiio e17 for while now and always used it with my pc.
> However recently I have been experiencing a problem.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The fact that it continues to function properly with your MacBook Pro means that the E17 itself is likely OK. By chance do you have another Windows PC that you can try the E17 on? Perhaps a Windows virtual machine (VM) on you MBP (running under VMWare Fusion, Parallels or Virtualbox). If you're able to try the E17 and it works on another Windows PC (as well as your MBP), most guaranteed it's something to do with the USB drivers on your original Windows PC. Alas, troubleshooting USB driver issues can be a real nightmare.
  
 Have you installed any new hardware or software on your Windows PC recently, especially since the problems started? If so, can you try to uninstall the software and/or hardware and see if that resolves the issue? I'd also recommend using a registry cleaner like CCleaner from Piriform. I use CCleaner (Crap Cleaner) frequently on my Windows PCs and it definitely seems to help in keeping the Windows PCs running a lot more smoothly.
  
 If on the other hand, you try the E17 on another Windows PC and it too has the same problems, then there is the possibility that your E17 has developed some unique new failure. The fact that it works on your MBP means it's most likely the E17 is fine. Let us know how you make out after trying the E17 on another Windows PC.
  
 Dale


----------



## NoodleBoy91

agentxxl said:


> The fact that it continues to function properly with your MacBook Pro means that the E17 itself is likely OK. By chance do you have another Windows PC that you can try the E17 on? Perhaps a Windows virtual machine (VM) on you MBP (running under VMWare Fusion, Parallels or Virtualbox). If you're able to try the E17 and it works on another Windows PC (as well as your MBP), most guaranteed it's something to do with the USB drivers on your original Windows PC. Alas, troubleshooting USB driver issues can be a real nightmare.
> 
> Have you installed any new hardware or software on your Windows PC recently, especially since the problems started? If so, can you try to uninstall the software and/or hardware and see if that resolves the issue? I'd also recommend using a registry cleaner like CCleaner from Piriform. I use CCleaner (Crap Cleaner) frequently on my Windows PCs and it definitely seems to help in keeping the Windows PCs running a lot more smoothly.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Okay so ive just tested it with my windows 7 that is running on my MBP via bootcamp partition and it works fine, in fact it worked as soon as I plugged it in and it installed the drivers. 
  
 I've just run CCleaner and tried the FiiO again, but it still doesnt work.. 
  
 So I may have a USB driver issue?? I have no idea because it picks up the E17 and installs the drivers perfectly fine, it's just the audio that doesn't want to run through it.. I have disabled the realtek sound card and tried to use the E17 but i still get an error message saying that no audio devices are plugged in and have to enable the sound card again..


----------



## kalbee

It might be a Windows side bug. I have a hard time switching away the output from my desktop DAC/AMP it's really annoying... I've basically lost the ability to use my speakers as desktop audio output, even though the sound settings clearly show that I have selected and should be using Speaker output.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

No idea what the problem is, ill look at it again another time, or maybe just use it with the laptop from now on.


----------



## kalbee

Yeah... if I ever manage to find the issue I'll post although mine is involving not being able to output via speakers, which I guess is the exact opposite. The root of the problem should be the same thing.


----------



## pteixeira

I dug through my computer settings and found out I'm using Realtek audio with ALC663.
  
 Does anyone know if the DAC in the E17 is better than this?


----------



## SpiderNhan

Realtek DAC sucks. I have the same on on my PC and laptop. E17 destroys it!


----------



## NoodleBoy91

spidernhan said:


> Realtek DAC sucks. I have the same on on my PC and laptop. E17 destroys it!


 
 Yeah I find that the FiiO e17 running straight out of the pc improves the sounds heaps. 
 Do you know whether the e17 bypasses the Macbook pro DAC?
  
 Oh I should Also mention that I tried the optical output on the realtek into the E17 but the same thing happens so maybe it's not a USB issue..


----------



## TrollDragon

noodleboy91 said:


> Yeah I find that the FiiO e17 running straight out of the pc improves the sounds heaps.
> Do you know whether the e17 bypasses the Macbook pro DAC?
> 
> Oh I should Also mention that I tried the optical output on the realtek into the E17 but the same thing happens so maybe it's not a USB issue..


It will bypass the Mac's DAC as well you have to select it as your output device in the audio control panel.

I would try uninstalling your Realtek audio drivers from the Programs control panel and reinstalling them after a reboot. Reinstall them with your MB/Computer manufacturers drivers or new ones from the Realtek website.


----------



## zainprox

Hi guys, I have heard that using apps like Poweramp improves the sound of android devices. Will using apps like these still improve the sound even while using the fiio e17? Or are those apps redundant if i use the e17. I am currently using the stock player on my Galaxy Note II.


----------



## Rayzilla

zainprox said:


> Hi guys, I have heard that using apps like Poweramp improves the sound of android devices. Will using apps like these still improve the sound even while using the fiio e17? Or are those apps redundant if i use the e17. I am currently using the stock player on my Galaxy Note II.




You may want to look into the E18 instead if you have the Note 2. I have the Note 2 and the E17. I haven't been able to get the E17 to work as a DAC with the Note 2.

I am actually going to pick up an E18 right now. I tested briefly with my Note 2 last Sunday and it worked very well.


----------



## zainprox

rayzilla said:


> You may want to look into the E18 instead if you have the Note 2. I have the Note 2 and the E17. I haven't been able to get the E17 to work as a DAC with the Note 2.
> 
> I am actually going to pick up an E18 right now. I tested briefly with my Note 2 last Sunday and it worked very well.


 
 I plan on testing out that amp at a local store, comparing it with the e17 and other amps too. I also plan on using the same device for listening to music on my computer as well through my TF10x4. My main concern is that the stock player will greatly deteriorate the sound signal coming out of my note 2, which i plan on using to demo the amps, giving me a flawed comparison of the amps.


----------



## SkyNet

Has anyone managed to make the E17 work with a lighting port in the iPhone 5? I have a lightning to USB camera adapter but when I connect the FiiO I get an awkward message that it requires too much power...


----------



## AgentXXL

skynet said:


> Has anyone managed to make the E17 work with a lighting port in the iPhone 5? I have a lightning to USB camera adapter but when I connect the FiiO I get an awkward message that it requires too much power...




Yes, you just need to put a small passive (unpowered) USB hub inbetween the CCK (Lightning to USB camera adapter) and the E17:

iPhone 5 -> CCK -> passive USB hub -> E17

You also need to turn off USB charging in the E17 menu and the iPhone needs to be running 7.0.x iOS.

Dale


----------



## imeem

is anybody using optical cable instead of USB for their e17?


----------



## TrollDragon

imeem said:


> is anybody using optical cable instead of USB for their e17?


I use optical on my MacBook C2D.


----------



## gambit50

trolldragon said:


> I use optical on my MacBook C2D.


 
 Any improvement over USB?
 I think my optical cable is long lost.


----------



## TrollDragon

gambit50 said:


> Any improvement over USB?
> I think my optical cable is long lost.


Only that it will give you 24/192 resolution, I personally couldn't hear any difference between optical and USB but that's just me.

Monoprice has a nice short thin optical cable for a few bucks if you want to pick one up.


----------



## josin

I have a nexus 4 and Koss Pro Dj100, but Nexus 4 is not good enough to drive the dj100. How good is E17 when paired with Nexus 4? can I use it as a DAC with Nexus 4? Please help me guys.


----------



## pteixeira

not sure about the E17, but the E18 may be able to do that


----------



## Ashade

pteixeira said:


> not sure about the E17, but the E18 may be able to do that


 
  


josin said:


> I have a nexus 4 and Koss Pro Dj100, but Nexus 4 is not good enough to drive the dj100. How good is E17 when paired with Nexus 4? can I use it as a DAC with Nexus 4? Please help me guys.


 
  
 Careful here because apparently the Nexus 4 is a little bit picky. You might need a custom kernel even with the E18 (this is just especulation). Flav106 got the E17 working through USB Audio Recorder Pro (not the ideal solution though):
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634048/google-nexus-4/225#post_9823247
  
 You might wanna wait till there is more information available with the E18.
  
 EDIT: More info:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/2100#post_9340559
  
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2181820


----------



## josin

^^thanks... I am already running a custom kernel with USB otg function. But nexus needs an external power source to read USB...that's what I am worried about

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ashade

josin said:


> ^^thanks... I am already running a custom kernel with USB otg function. But nexus needs an external power source to read USB...that's what I am worried about
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


 
  
 Initially the E18 draws negligible power. You might want to keep an eye on it better than E17.


----------



## JyNadaril

So I have an E17/E9 setup right now. I have the LO bypass ticked up (so away from the words) and have been using the EQ settings on the E17 with the E9. I was wondering how I should tweak the volume overall cuz I have the overall macbook volume (which get's placed at max when the USB cable is in), the media player volume, the E17 volume, and the E9 volume. How should I setup all of this?


----------



## TrollDragon

I run my combo in bypass mode and apply EQ from the computer. I like having only one volume control to worry about.


----------



## JyNadaril

trolldragon said:


> I run my combo in bypass mode and apply EQ from the computer. I like having only one volume control to worry about.


 
 So it's better to use bypass mode?


----------



## TrollDragon

It's all a matter of personal choice, I usually like a flat EQ and just having to adjust the E09K's volume control. 

When using the E17 as a portable I like a bass +4 with my Ultrasone's for a little more thump. 

With the E17 in bypass mode I don't have to change anything when I dock it after portable use. it gives me line out level with no EQ which is what I like for the DT880's.

Check it out and see what you like the best.


----------



## PTom

I just received an E17 I ordered. Hooked it up to the usb of my macbook pro for listening to my Fidelio X1 and it's unlistenable, there's a lot of distortion. Is there some settings I need to change or is there a burn in period?


----------



## SpiderNhan

ptom said:


> I just received an E17 I ordered. Hooked it up to the usb of my macbook pro for listening to my Fidelio X1 and it's unlistenable, there's a lot of distortion. Is there some settings I need to change or is there a burn in period?


 
 There shouldn't be any distortion. I use a PC, so I can't help you with your problem specifically, but I did have issues with my E17 if I left "USB Charge" ON while listening to it. I would get distortion every 10 to 15 minutes and had to reset either my web browser, media or game and reboot my E17 to get the sound back for another 10-15 minutes. Once I turned "USB Charge" OFF, the distortion problem went away.

 Now I just charge overnight when the battery gets low.


----------



## PTom

It's working ok on my girlfriend's laptop but still no difference on the macbook pro.


----------



## Mandala

It sounds like it could be something to do with the audio settings on your MBP. I've had experience with having a lower bit rate setting causing distortion when listening through my E17.


----------



## PTom

I think you might be right, I've also got windows on the mac and it seems to be working ok on windows.


----------



## PTom

I think it's working as it's supposed to now but I'm not 100% sure. Using the E17 most music genres seem to sound noticeably better than my laptop integrated sound but some rock music with electric guitarists purposely using distortion are almost not listenable, i.e. the E17 seems to make the electric guitar distortions more noticeable than before to the point where it's not as enjoyable. This is my first amp/DAC so I don't have any point of reference. Is this normal or does it sound like there's a fault with my unit?


----------



## TrollDragon

I have none of what you hear... Can you try the E17 on another computer with the same music to see if it distorts there as well?


----------



## V00DEW

Hey guys, I own an E17 which I used with a pair of HD 598s. I'm currently away from my home for few months and have been using a laptop (instead of my normal desktop setup) with these. However, since I started using the setup with the laptop, I've noticed if I leave the amp plugged in via usb for any lengthy amount of time idle, there will be an incredible amount of static (sometimes to the point of being unbearable/total audio distortion) being outputted by the headphones regardless of what the audio type is. I'm using the same setup digitally as well (Foobar configuration/playback devices) I know it's not the headphones, as the static will go away if I unplug/replug the amp. I also know it's not the cord, as I've tested it with a spare. In addition, I've tested another USB port, and the problem still persists. 
  
 As a note, when audio is being played, the static never comes, it's just when it's idling. The Fiio will also tend to flash "lock" when it happens. I've only had the amp/headphones since February, but have used them heavily since then.


----------



## TrollDragon

Have you tries resetting the E17 with the pin hole on top? It might need a reset.


----------



## V00DEW

trolldragon said:


> Have you tries resetting the E17 with the pin hole on top? It might need a reset.


 
 Actually, I totally didn't even think of that. Doing this wont cause any major changes that I'll have to reconfigure though, correct?


----------



## Allucid

My Laptop went into mono audio.
Loving the DAC on the E17, never really used it [as much] before this.


----------



## TrollDragon

v00dew said:


> Actually, I totally didn't even think of that. Doing this wont cause any major changes that I'll have to reconfigure though, correct?


It will put it back to factory settings, there isn't really a whole lot to configure, should only take a minute or two.


----------



## phantomasko

My E17 suddenly stopped working through optical, on any sample rate! This happened after switching from home theater (also optic) back to E17. It was working before that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 When I connect it, the display doesn't flash like usually, and headphones just start producing crackling noise. No other sounds. This happened to me when I was trying higher sample rates on PS3, but never on PC. USB works fine. Connections should be snug too. Nothing changed after system restart too.
 Is it broken?


----------



## TrollDragon

Try another optical cable.


----------



## V00DEW

Alright, so resetting it didn't seem to take care of the problem. I'm really hoping that it's just this laptop though, because that'd be a shame to have it go bad after not even a year.


----------



## Stugotz

trolldragon said:


> Only that it will give you 24/192 resolution, I personally couldn't hear any difference between optical and USB but that's just me.
> 
> Monoprice has a nice short thin optical cable for a few bucks if you want to pick one up.


 

 Would you mind posting a link for it? (Monoprice has a nice short thin optical cable for a few bucks)


----------



## TrollDragon

stugotz said:


> Would you mind posting a link for it? (Monoprice has a nice short thin optical cable for a few bucks)


 

 Sorry, I thought mine came from Monoprice but it was actually B&H Photo Video.
 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/160869-REG/Hosa_Technology_OPT_102_Toslink_Male_to_Toslink.html
  
 or Full Compass
 http://www.fullcompass.com/product/288573.html
  
 or Sweetwater
 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OPT102/
  
 Nice thin little cable comes with standard ends if you need to plug it into a 3.5 mm TRS jack then pick up an adapter or two as well.
 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/516240-REG/Hosa_Technology_GOP_490_TOSlink_Optical_Female_to.html
  
 Full Compass
 http://www.fullcompass.com/product/360720.html
  
 Sweetwater
 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GOP490


----------



## imeem

i just notice that if i pick 16 bit and 44.1 khz, 16 bit and 48 khz, 24 bit and 44.1 khz, and 24 bit and 48 khz my fiio E17 would says 48 k and 16 bit.
  
 For 16 bit and 96 khz, it would say 96 khz and 24 bit.
  
 Is my e17 broken or is it just a display bug? 
  
 EDIT found this and this . Seems like the e17 is unable to display that on the display.


----------



## TrollDragon

That's the way it works... all explained in the manual.


----------



## Darkimmortal

imeem said:


> i just notice that if i pick 16 bit and 44.1 khz, 16 bit and 48 khz, 24 bit and 44.1 khz, and 24 bit and 48 khz my fiio E17 would says 48 k and 16 bit.
> 
> For 16 bit and 96 khz, it would say 96 khz and 24 bit.
> 
> Is my e17 broken or is it just a display bug?


 
  
 Known display bug, it's only able to display a handful of values and just picks the nearest. No resampling is occurring


----------



## chroniX

Can I use this E17 with my E9 amp or do I need the E09k?
  
 I kind of ordered this without researching because I got it for a good price, but I was hoping someone can give me a run down on how this would work with my E9 amp? Like how would I connect it and do I need to install any drivers or anything? And I will be mostly keeping it stationary on my desktop so would I need to disable charging to preserve the battery life?
  
 Would appreciate any help, thanks!


----------



## SpiderNhan

chronix said:


> Can I use this E17 with my E9 amp or do I need the E09k?
> 
> I kind of ordered this without researching because I got it for a good price, but I was hoping someone can give me a run down on how this would work with my E9 amp? Like how would I connect it and do I need to install any drivers or anything? And I will be mostly keeping it stationary on my desktop so would I need to disable charging to preserve the battery life?
> 
> Would appreciate any help, thanks!


 
 That's the exact set up I have. You just plug the E17 into the E9, connect the USB cable and turn on the proper settings on your PC. It's pretty easy and it works great.


----------



## chroniX

spidernhan said:


> That's the exact set up I have. You just plug the E17 into the E9, connect the USB cable and turn on the proper settings on your PC. It's pretty easy and it works great.


 
 That sounds awesome. So what about my current sound card? I have a X-Fi Titanium HD but if this E17 can replace it then I will just sell it.
  
 Right now I have RCA Cables going from my sound card to the E9. When I get the E17, I should just plug it into the E9, and then have the E17's USB cable going to my PC and that's it? Nothing connected to my onboard sound card right?


----------



## SpiderNhan

chronix said:


> That sounds awesome. So what about my current sound card? I have a X-Fi Titanium HD but if this E17 can replace it then I will just sell it.
> 
> Right now I have RCA Cables going from my sound card to the E9. When I get the E17, I should just plug it into the E9, and then have the E17's USB cable going to my PC and that's it? Nothing connected to my onboard sound card right?



Correct. The E17 bypasses your sound card and uses its own internal DAC. The USB cable actually connects to the back of your E9 and interfaces with your E17 through the E9's connector on top.

You can use the volume control, gain settings, channel balance and eq on the E17 while also using the E9 to control the master volume. I have my PC volume set to full.


----------



## chroniX

spidernhan said:


> Correct. The E17 bypasses your sound card and uses its own internal DAC. The USB cable actually connects to the back of your E9 and interfaces with your E17 through the E9's connector on top.
> 
> You can use the volume control, gain settings, channel balance and eq on the E17 while also using the E9 to control the master volume. I have my PC volume set to full.


 
 Thanks that's good to know. So just to clarify, I'm only connecting a USB cable to my computer -- nothing else? And what about drivers, is it plug and play or do I need to install some drivers before it starts working?


----------



## SpiderNhan

chronix said:


> Thanks that's good to know. So just to clarify, I'm only connecting a USB cable to my computer -- nothing else? And what about drivers, is it plug and play or do I need to install some drivers before it starts working?


 
 It should be plug and play. There is an E17 driver that comes with it for ASIO playback, and there's also WASAPI drivers you can install (both of these drivers are for outputting an uncompressed bitstream to your DAC) but I really don't notice any difference playing music without them, so it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe if I had higher resolution headphones and gear, but with the mid-fi stuff I have, an uncompressed bitstream doesn't make much of a difference.
  
 The set up is as follows:
 E17>E9>USB>PC
  
 That's it.


----------



## chroniX

spidernhan said:


> It should be plug and play. There is an E17 driver that comes with it for ASIO playback, and there's also WASAPI drivers you can install (both of these drivers are for outputting an uncompressed bitstream to your DAC) but I really don't notice any difference playing music without them, so it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe if I had higher resolution headphones and gear, but with the mid-fi stuff I have, an uncompressed bitstream doesn't make much of a difference.
> 
> The set up is as follows:
> E17>E9>USB>PC
> ...


 
 Thanks for answering all my questions and repped. Can't wait to try it!
  
 Does anyone know if this would be plug and play for Mac or Linux as well, or is there a driver provided for it? That's one of the main reasons for getting this, so I will have a high quality DAC that would work across multiple OSs.


----------



## TrollDragon

The E17 is a USB Audio 1 device which is supported with no drivers needed on any newer operating system.


----------



## s1ranger

Hello! Help me please. Interested work time Fiio E17 from battery. Charge time ~4hrs 15min, while working 10-13 hours. Something else excites me. After charging, the red LED does not switch off and it shines dim. Is this normal? Sorry for my English.


----------



## imeem

s1ranger said:


> Hello! Help me please. Interested work time Fiio E17 from battery. Charge time ~4hrs 15min, while working 10-13 hours. Something else excites me. After charging, the red LED does not switch off and it shines dim. Is this normal? Sorry for my English.


 
  
 yes. u need to turn off usb charging manually.


----------



## takwing1hk

chronix said:


> Thanks for answering all my questions and repped. Can't wait to try it!
> 
> Does anyone know if this would be plug and play for Mac or Linux as well, or is there a driver provided for it? That's one of the main reasons for getting this, so I will have a high quality DAC that would work across multiple OSs.


 
 to me, using the E17 driver from the vendor does give me better sound quality in 64-bit Win7.
 I am using Little Dot MK IV w/ Shure940


----------



## Darkimmortal

takwing1hk said:


> to me, using the E17 driver from the vendor does give me better sound quality in 64-bit Win7.
> I am using Little Dot MK IV w/ Shure940


 
 Surely it only allows for ASIO?
  
 It also introduces all manner of issues in Windows 8 by simply being installed, doesn't even need to be the active output


----------



## vipervick

Just got mine, taking forever to charge the damned thing!!!


----------



## Allucid

vipervick said:


> Just got mine, taking forever to charge the damned thing!!!



FiiO recommends that you charge the amp fully before using it.


----------



## TrollDragon

Just like any electronic rechargeable device.


----------



## cheungtsw

What is the latest FW for the E17?
  
 I only have a latest version of the IPOD Nano.  What is the best way to use it with the E17?  Set the volume of the Nano to middle and tune the volume on the E17?   Thanks.


----------



## TrollDragon

There is no FW for the E17 as it is not upgradable.

If there is no LOD cable for your nano and if what you are doing provides enough source level, then that is good as you can always turn the nano up to get more. If there is a LOD then you don't even have to use the nano's volume control at all since it's output will be at line out level through that cable.


----------



## imeem

i think my headphone jack/amplifier on the E17 is defective. After many months of experience, i notice that my fiio e17 is very susceptible to interference from smartphones, home phones, and monitors.
  
 When they are near them, they make a weird noise that is not a tick or a click. However, when i move the e17 away from them (like 10 inchs or more), the chance of it happening decreases alot. The funny thing is that it only happens when i'm using the headphone jack and not when using line out.
  
 any1 have insights on this issue? I might consider putting it in a anti-static bag to see if it will fixes this.


----------



## Neug

Hi guys,
 I've had the E17 for a couple weeks now. Pretty happy with it thou i hear it sounds a bit better using optical in, so im getting a USB to SPD/IF device.
  
 One thing that ive noticed is that generating a full digital range sine wave into it leads to some distortion. At first i though there was gain somewhere that was causing digital clipping. Ive tried WASAPI, ASIO and DS and its the same, there is distortion as soon as you get to within 0.2db of full digital range. Then I noticed this distortion was different in left or right channels. Am I correct in saying this distortion is coming from the dac output working near its maximum range? Is this normal?
  
 Thanks for your time,
                            Neug


----------



## vipervick

I haven't used the DAC feature yet. I got a Modi at home for that. But, it sounds great to me coming LOD (E9) from iPad > E17 > ATH-M50.


----------



## Mangudai

Nevermind, figured it out.


----------



## plasmoic

have a problem with mine...
 left the USB charge option on "off" ..battery drained and now when I try to turn it on the screen appears for a second and turns off...It wont charge via USB because the option is "off"...
 tried resetting but nothing...
  
 any idea?


----------



## imeem

usb charging is suppose to automatically turn on when it's dead.


----------



## plasmoic

imeem said:


> usb charging is suppose to automatically turn on when it's dead.


 
 so actually seeing the main screen for a millisecond means that its not fully dead?
 waiting is my only option I guess...
  
 Thank you.


----------



## TrollDragon

Or try holding the reset with a pin and then turning it on to see what happens.
 Other than that I'd let it sit for a few hours plugged in.


----------



## plasmoic

trolldragon said:


> Or try holding the reset with a pin and then turning it on to see what happens.
> Other than that I'd let it sit for a few hours plugged in.


 
 trying turning it on while holding the reset does nothing....
 leaving it plugged won't help because its on usb charge "off"...
 guess will wait for the battery to die completely.


----------



## plasmoic

Issue resolved....
 left a ticket and a prompt response suggested the same thing...when the battery dies completely the device will start charging, no matter if you leave the USB charge option "on" or "off"...
  
 button is red


----------



## TrollDragon

Excellentisimo!

Good to hear all is not lost.


----------



## plasmoic

trolldragon said:


> Excellentisimo!
> 
> Good to hear all is not lost.


 
 Yup, still alive, does its job perfectly...... 
 (although screen is going darker and darker, and now can be barely seen under daylight)


----------



## Kdavis71

I have a pair of ATH-M50WH headphones. I recently ordered the Fiio E17 off amazon and it should be here by Dec. 24th at the latest. I am using it with Foobar2000 + FLAC library. My source is my Sony Vaio laptop which I believe has a crappy sound card because it gets very staticy whenever I am browsing the web or scrolling on pages. How will the Fiio E17 affect my sound?
  
 Also I am curious as to how if at all it will affect the sound of movies. Everyone mainly talks about the Fiio E17 for music (which I will be listening to a lot of) but how should it compare to my onboard soundcard in terms of audio quality for movies.


----------



## AgentXXL

kdavis71 said:


> I have a pair of ATH-M50WH headphones. I recently ordered the Fiio E17 off amazon and it should be here by Dec. 24th at the latest. I am using it with Foobar2000 + FLAC library. My source is my Sony Vaio laptop which I believe has a crappy sound card because it gets very staticy whenever I am browsing the web or scrolling on pages. How will the Fiio E17 affect my sound?
> 
> Also I am curious as to how if at all it will affect the sound of movies. Everyone mainly talks about the Fiio E17 for music (which I will be listening to a lot of) but how should it compare to my onboard soundcard in terms of audio quality for movies.


 
  
 If you're Vaio headphone output is produces a lot of static-like noise no matter what it's connected to, you can expect the same from the E17.
  
 As for the movies question, I found the E17 to definitely improve my 2 channel listening, and that includes movies which have been downconverted to a 2 channel output on my MacBook Pro. The increase in power that the E17 provides will provide the same improvements for whatever 2 channel source you feed it. Just remember - it's only a 2 channel device whether used with the line-in or as a USB DAC. If you want multichannel type presentation from your movies, you'll need something like a Dolby Headphone encoder (i.e. something like the hard to find JVC SU-DH1) or perhaps a software solution like Out Of Your Head:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/689299/out-of-your-head-new-virtual-surround-simulator
  
 Dale


----------



## Kdavis71

Thanks AgentXXL, I'll be mainly using the USB Dac feature so I won't have to use the headphone output so seems I should be fine in that regard.
  
 Glad to hear movie audio will improve. I expected surround sound wouldn't work well, I have software for it (Razer Surround Sound) but there doesn't seem to be much you can do in terms of surround sound when you only have 2 channels to work with. I'll probably eventually get a 5.1 channel speaker set up.
  
 Speaking of the Razer Surround software, they are offering it for free up until 2014 when it will go back to $20 for anyone interested.


----------



## teohouse88

The following picture shows my configuration with iPhone 5 iOs 7.0.3 ( iPhone --------> lightning to camera -------> E17 -------> Headphone)  :

  
 When I play the music in my iPhone, the sounds come out from the speakers of the phone and not in the headphones.
  
  
  
 Where did I make a mistake in my configuration?


----------



## AgentXXL

teohouse88 said:


> The following picture shows my configuration with iPhone 5 iOs 7.0.3 ( iPhone --------> lightning to camera -------> E17 -------> Headphone)  :
> 
> 
> When I play the music in my iPhone, the sounds come out from the speakers of the phone and not in the headphones.
> ...


 
  
 As indicated in the other thread, a passive USB hub is mandatory inbetween the CCK and E17. Also make sure to turn USB charging off on the E17 and not drive the volume levels of the iPhone or the E17 over 3/4 each.
  
 Dale


----------



## kalbee

imeem said:


> i think my headphone jack/amplifier on the E17 is defective. After many months of experience, i notice that my fiio e17 is very susceptible to interference from smartphones, home phones, and monitors.
> 
> When they are near them, they make a weird noise that is not a tick or a click. However, when i move the e17 away from them (like 10 inchs or more), the chance of it happening decreases alot. The funny thing is that it only happens when i'm using the headphone jack and not when using line out.
> 
> any1 have insights on this issue? I might consider putting it in a anti-static bag to see if it will fixes this.


 
 It is susceptible. Far from the worse I've seen on portable amps though.
 I generally don't get too much of it unless from my phone, specially when the signals go from none to low (like when getting out of the metro/subway station).
  
 I've never tried with Line Out though...


----------



## TrollDragon

That is why I use a DAP (Colorfly C3) as smartphones are just too noisy with all the RF gear they have in them.

A static bag would not help, it's made to protect components from static charge not RF shielding.


----------



## SilverDragon88

So I apologize if this is a bit of a n00b question but this is my first USB DAC so I want to make sure I got this right...
  
 I ordered a new e17 and a set of ATH-M50s on the recommendation of a friend who has a e7 paired with the same headphones.  I have a Fiio E10 and wanted something portable that I couldn't pair with my macbook and phone.  The e17 arrived first and I couldn't wait to test them out so I hooked up my old MDR-5706s to them and hooked the USB into my Retina MacBook Pro.  No matter what I have it set to, the sound is very distorted unless I drop the volume on the MacBook to 30% and up the volume on the e17 to 60!   I tried adjusting the bitrate between 48/16 and 96/24 and its the same effect.  Is this normal for the e17 or is there something wrong with it?  Ive tried using it on both my MacBook Retina and my desktop with the same results using different USB cables.  Line in seems fine but thats not the point of a DAC.
  
 Any help or info greatly appreciated.  Again, I apologize if this is a n00b question.


----------



## ClieOS

A few things to check: (1) Disable all the EQ on your Mac and E17. (2) Set the gain on E17 to zero. (3) reset the E17 via the reset hole. (4) make sure the E17 is fully charged.


----------



## SpiderNhan

silverdragon88 said:


> So I apologize if this is a bit of a n00b question but this is my first USB DAC so I want to make sure I got this right...
> 
> I ordered a new e17 and a set of ATH-M50s on the recommendation of a friend who has a e7 paired with the same headphones.  I have a Fiio E10 and wanted something portable that I couldn't pair with my macbook and phone.  The e17 arrived first and I couldn't wait to test them out so I hooked up my old MDR-5706s to them and hooked the USB into my Retina MacBook Pro.  No matter what I have it set to, the sound is very distorted unless I drop the volume on the MacBook to 30% and up the volume on the e17 to 60!   I tried adjusting the bitrate between 48/16 and 96/24 and its the same effect.  Is this normal for the e17 or is there something wrong with it?  Ive tried using it on both my MacBook Retina and my desktop with the same results using different USB cables.  Line in seems fine but thats not the point of a DAC.
> 
> Any help or info greatly appreciated.  Again, I apologize if this is a n00b question.



On my PC I noticed that having USB Charge turned on would give me static. I only charge my E17 when in not listening to it.


----------



## SilverDragon88

spidernhan said:


> On my PC I noticed that having USB Charge turned on would give me static. I only charge my E17 when in not listening to it.


 
 Thank you SpiderNhan and ClieOS.  Disabling USB charge appears to have done the trick.  This DAC is a lot better than any Ive owned before.  Looking forward to when the ATH-M50s get here


----------



## JoeDoe

For not having a clue about head-fi, dad did pretty good this Xmas!


----------



## ashenkin

Anyone know if the E17 is up to driving 64 ohms?


----------



## Ashade

ashenkin said:


> Anyone know if the E17 is up to driving 64 ohms?




Without a single problem volume-wise. Different is if it will drive it properly. What headphones are we talking about?


----------



## ashenkin

ashade said:


> Without a single problem volume-wise. Different is if it will drive it properly. What headphones are we talking about?


 

 Thanks for the reply.  I'm not so worried about volume as I am having a good frequency response across the whole range.  My guess is that amps not designed for driving lower-impedance headphones will roll off on the bassy end.  The headphones in this case are Sennheiser HD580 Pro's, though I'm curious about how low a 'phones impedance can go and still be driven well by the E17 in general.


----------



## Ashade

ashenkin said:


> Thanks for the reply.  I'm not so worried about volume as I am having a good frequency response across the whole range.  My guess is that amps not designed for driving lower-impedance headphones will roll off on the bassy end.  The headphones in this case are Sennheiser HD580 Pro's, though I'm curious about how low a 'phones impedance can go and still be driven well by the E17 in general.




I don't think you would have any problem honestly. That's something that depends more on how difficult are the headphones to be driven. The E17 drives perfectly all the AKG K7xx and Q701 series and they are known to be pretty difficult to drive. Same range of impedances. You are good to go man.

EDIT: if you are specifically concerned about the bass, you might wanna check the E18 as well, that IMHO behaves better than the E17 in the lower frequency end.


----------



## ashenkin

thanks ashade...


----------



## Ashade

ashenkin said:


> thanks ashade...




You are very welcome. Don't forget to check the E18 as well. For little more you can even build an O2/ODAC combo too.


----------



## raytraceme

my e17's usb slot broke and I was wondering if i could use the l7 to i guess replace it so i can use it with my computer again?


----------



## Darkimmortal

raytraceme said:


> my e17's usb slot broke and I was wondering if i could use the l7 to i guess replace it so i can use it with my computer again?


 
  
 Yes, just a few caveats - the L7 puts the E17 into dock mode, which disables AUX input (obviously as it's covered) and sets the gain to 6 (it can be changed, but must be set each time the L7 is inserted)
  
 But basically yes


----------



## raytraceme

Thanks a lot for the help and thats fine my input i always optical or usb so im good to buy that and sell my e09k? Im really upset I spent money on it before asking!


----------



## Darkimmortal

raytraceme said:


> Thanks a lot for the help and thats fine my input i always optical or usb so im good to buy that and sell my e09k? Im really upset I spent money on it before asking!


 
  
 You have an E09K?
  
 Just use the usb port on that...


----------



## cadave

Just picked up an E17 from what appears to be an authorized Canadian retailer (Canada Computers) on sale for $99.99 and the case and RCA->3.5mm adapter seems to be different from all of the pictures I see online and from all the unboxing videos. The case is a neoprene material with a velcro closure instead of the velour with a clasp. I checked the authenticity number on the Fiio website and it says the product is genuine. I'm curious if anyone else seen this version of the case and the adapter? I'm worried about whether or not the product is genuine.


----------



## Ashade

cadave said:


> Just picked up an E17 from what appears to be an authorized Canadian retailer (Canada Computers) on sale for $99.99 and the case and RCA->3.5mm adapter seems to be different from all of the pictures I see online and from all the unboxing videos. The case is a neoprene material with a velcro closure instead of the velour with a clasp. I checked the authenticity number on the Fiio website and it says the product is genuine. I'm curious if anyone else seen this version of the case and the adapter? I'm worried about whether or not the product is genuine.




They look like what is being included with the E18. Maybe they have updated the packaging. Was the package sealed?


----------



## cadave

ashade said:


> They look like what is being included with the E18. Maybe they have updated the packaging. Was the package sealed?


 
  
 Yes, it was sealed. I'm kinda disappointed... the case looks a lot cheaper than what used to be included. Great portable amp though.


----------



## JoeDoe

cadave said:


> Just picked up an E17 from what appears to be an authorized Canadian retailer (Canada Computers) on sale for $99.99 and the case and RCA->3.5mm adapter seems to be different from all of the pictures I see online and from all the unboxing videos. The case is a neoprene material with a velcro closure instead of the velour with a clasp. I checked the authenticity number on the Fiio website and it says the product is genuine. I'm curious if anyone else seen this version of the case and the adapter? I'm worried about whether or not the product is genuine.


 
 I received mine for Xmas and those are what came with it. I didn't realize there was another version of the case.


----------



## Ashade

cadave said:


> Yes, it was sealed. I'm kinda disappointed... the case looks a lot cheaper than what used to be included. Great portable amp though.




The old case might look better, but it was kind of annoying in my opinion. I had the feeling the hard button was going to scratch the amp. I prefer the new one better and it stays cleaner much better.


----------



## kalbee

Quote:


cadave said:


> Yes, it was sealed. I'm kinda disappointed... the case looks a lot cheaper than what used to be included. Great portable amp though.


 
 Well my case is sitting there gathering dust; literally.
 If the new carry bag/case is more of a neoprene material then it should be less of a dust trap/magnet.
 Probably is a good thing.


----------



## raytraceme

darkimmortal said:


> You have an E09K?
> 
> Just use the usb port on that...


 
 waste of money as i am a bass head and always use the bass and treble functions which the e09k doesnt have plus it's too big for portable use.


----------



## Darkimmortal

raytraceme said:


> waste of money as i am a bass head and always use the bass and treble functions which the e09k doesnt have plus it's too big for portable use.


 
  
 99% certain the USB is a passthrough to the E17 when it's docked on the E09K
  
 Just keep the lo-bypass switch in the factory position and the volume <45 ish and you can still use the bass/treble controls


----------



## vipervick

Well,
  
 My E17 doesn't work with my laptops USB. I'll have to try a powered USB hub. For now I just run it through the speaker jack to aux in.


----------



## imeem

vipervick said:


> Well,
> 
> My E17 doesn't work with my laptops USB. I'll have to try a powered USB hub. For now I just run it through the speaker jack to aux in.


 
 isn't that pointless then? you're not actually using the DAc on the e17 and only using the amp on it.


----------



## Ashade

vipervick said:


> Well,
> 
> My E17 doesn't work with my laptops USB. I'll have to try a powered USB hub. For now I just run it through the speaker jack to aux in.


 
  
 Did you try installing new drivers? It's really weird that it doesn´t work. Are all of them 3.0 USB?


----------



## vipervick

Laptop is a 2009 from Pro-Star, built on the Clevo D900F. I'd be surprised if it had USB 2.0


----------



## Ashade

vipervick said:


> Laptop is a 2009 from Pro-Star, built on the Clevo D900F. I'd be surprised if it had USB 2.0




LOL. Do you have access to a powered HUB? You could try that.


----------



## TrollDragon

vipervick said:


> Laptop is a 2009 from Pro-Star, built on the Clevo D900F. I'd be surprised if it had USB 2.0


 
  
 Does the E17 work as a DAC on a different Laptop or Computer?
 Also have you tried a different USB Cable?


----------



## drgazza

Hi,


I recently purchased an E17 and I wish to avoid stressing the headphone jack; can anyone recommend a small extension can be left always connected to the E17 and on which link the various headphones? the connection will always be E17 <-> extension <-> headphone, I do not seek a multiplier. Thank's in advance



thank's in advance


----------



## TrollDragon

drgazza said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> I recently purchased an E17 and I wish to avoid stressing the headphone jack; can anyone recommend a small extension can be left always connected to the E17 and on which link the various headphones? the connection will always be E17 <-> extension <-> headphone, I do not seek a multiplier. Thank's in advance
> ...


Most people DIY with a few connectors and some wire lunashops.com has all your connectors and you can repurpose wire from another extension etc...

Or something like this might work, I have no experience with this cable as to the quality although it looks good.

 www.radtech.us/products/procable-shortz-audio-extender


----------



## drgazza

trolldragon said:


> Most people DIY with a few connectors and some wire lunashops.com has all your connectors and you can repurpose wire from another extension etc...
> 
> Or something like this might work, I have no experience with this cable as to the quality although it looks good.
> 
> www.radtech.us/products/procable-shortz-audio-extender


 
 many thank's mr TrollDragon!
  
 now find the best solution for me, based on your advice


----------



## drgazza

trolldragon said:


> Most people DIY with a few connectors and some wire lunashops.com has all your connectors and you can repurpose wire from another extension etc...
> 
> Or something like this might work, I have no experience with this cable as to the quality although it looks good.
> 
> www.radtech.us/products/procable-shortz-audio-extender


 
  
 many thank's  mr TrollDragon
  
 now find the best solution for me, based on your advice


----------



## FrankJay

Dear All,
  
 I'd like to share my idea concerning the Fiio E17 with you. It was inspired by this post some time ago ... and it took some time for me to understand the background of the matter, but this forum was very helpful ... thanks a lot to all of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I was a newby to such issues, but reading through this forum was (and is) educational, illuminative, interesting ... I think I'm able to find a lot more adjectives, but now let's cut to the chase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Especially at @IKE60, the initiator: my appreciations and acknowledgement for having such an idea! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm German, and I was astonished as I read the denomination "kludge". I have never seen this word so far, but my dictionary told me that this word means something like "Flickschusterei" in German .. we can translate this back into English as "something that was knocked together" ... I don't really think that it is a kludge ... this idea offers a lot of possibilties.
  
 IKE60 used an Ipad - I adapted this for a Samsung Galaxy S3 with Android 4.1 (this version of the Android operating system is necessary, because henceforth, Android outputs the digital sound via USB).
  
 Unfortunately, I'm not able to insert a picture of my gearshift assembly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm relatively new to this forum, this is my second post - so I really hope you'll be patient with me. So I have to describe my procedure with words, maybe I can add the picture later if you like. But there is only one component more, so I think you can guess what I mean.
  
 I used a 4-port USB hub too, but additionally, I connected a Terratec Aureon Dual USB soundcard to the hub. The advantage of this card: it has optical output! I bought an optical cable and connected it directly to the optical input of the Fiio E17 ...
  
 I ripped my favourite music to FLAC files (loseless!) and transferred them to the SG3 ... and since this moment, I really enjoy the impressive sound of the "kludge". All the components are lightweight - I put them all together, installed them in a laptop bag ... and are able to use the "kludge" outdoors ... This is great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or, as we can say in French, "vraiment inimitable" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I think if we root the SG3 and copy additional music files to an additional USB stick, add it to the hub and perform an Android media scan, those files should appear in the media library - by the way, my favourite app is powamp.
  
 We can think of a better sound card ... one which is able to manage 24 bit / 96 kHz ... because the Fiio E17 is able to handle this resolution via optical input ... I'm not sure if Android is capable of outputting 24 bit / 192 kHz ...
  
 Have a look at the Samsung Galaxy Smart Dock Multimedia Hub. Using this device, we should be able to direct the stream directly into our amplifier at home.
  
 If you have further ideas, improvements, own experiences or annotations to my post, please let me know.
  
 Kind regards, Frank


----------



## nychase

vipervick said:


> Well,
> 
> My E17 doesn't work with my laptops USB. I'll have to try a powered USB hub. For now I just run it through the speaker jack to aux in.


 
 I had this same problem until I realized I had used the USB cable from my old E11 (just because it was lying around anyways and the new cable was in a twist tie and seemed too long). I switched to the cable that came with the E17 and problem solved!


----------



## TrollDragon

The E11 cable was a charge only cable it had no data lines. The E12 cable is the same but FiiO has labeled it now as a charge only.


----------



## Sushisamurai

raytraceme said:


> waste of money as i am a bass head and always use the bass and treble functions which the e09k doesnt have plus it's too big for portable use.



I assumed with the E09K, u were suppose to activate the LO pass mechanism on the E17, so that the E17 becomes the DAC and the E09K becomes the amp... It should retain the E17 EQ settigs. I don't remember (I set and forget . ), but I have no noticeable difference in sound with standalone E17 vs E09K combo. 

Btw, cudo's to this thread. Love Fiio's products and the community here.


----------



## Sushisamurai

Older





vipervick said:


> Laptop is a 2009 from Pro-Star, built on the Clevo D900F. I'd be surprised if it had USB 2.0



Not all laptops are made the same. Especially older windows laptops (mac's are thankfully standardized). USB plug for your laptop should work with E17. Windows/laptops have a safety function built into USB ports, if said plugged in device draws too much power, the OS automatically disconnects it in the background. Eg: plug in something that manually draws more than 5V in a Mac, the OS (mavericks) will tell you it disconnected said device because it used too much power. Previous Mac OS's use to just disconnect but not tell users (frustrating for users), so they added that in for mavericks. windows only recently caught up with windows 8, so older versions will just disconnect. However, all windows laptops have at least 1 full powered USB. So try one of the ports if all else fails. If not, then set USB charging to off and it should work with ur USB. 

If it's not a power issue, then check sound output and software sound output (eg: OS has dedicated sound output controls, but VLC can override that and default output to something else, annoys me when I unplug my E17 and forget about VLC's settings)


----------



## Sushisamurai

Yeah it shou





vipervick said:


> Laptop is a 2009 from Pro-Star, built on the Clevo D900F. I'd be surprised if it had USB 2.0


 and yes, it should have USB 2.0, as that was a standard pushed out in 2005-ish?. By 2008 everything was USB 2.0 and 1.0 was discontinued


----------



## Sushisamurai

As for android SG users, wouldn't u just need a USB OTG cable (from Nokia) for the E17 to work? (Or Hubbed with external batt so it doesn't draw too much power) if u can attach hard drives to the SG3 I would hope it could port the audio out via USB (unless it's missing drivers)


----------



## raytraceme

sushisamurai said:


> I assumed with the E09K, u were suppose to activate the LO pass mechanism on the E17, so that the E17 becomes the DAC and the E09K becomes the amp... It should retain the E17 EQ settigs. I don't remember (I set and forget
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i realized that the eq function is via the amp of the e17. thats why i cant get the bass and treble functions to work


----------



## TrollDragon

The E17 can be used both ways with the E09K. If the LO bypass is set you have no control over volume / bass / treble when it is docked. If the LO bypass is not set then you can control volume / bass / treble going into the E09K.


----------



## Mace63

So I have received my E17 and am using it with E09k Amp. There is one thing I don't understand.
  
 I can't seem to change the "48k 16bit" displayed on E17 (which was there when I first turned it on), no matter what I do with the options on windows. Does anyone know why this is and what should I do?


----------



## TrollDragon

What happens when you play a 24/96 file, does it change then?


----------



## Mace63

The 24 bit files I have are 24/48. And no, the display still shows 48k 16bit, even if the files I usually play are 44.1k 16 bit, it still shows 48k. Even if I set everything either to 24 bit or 16 bit both in the player and in the E17 windows settings, it always shows 48k 16bit. I'm really confused.
  
 Also, I've noticed that the volume bar in foobar works, even if I'm using WASAPI. It didn't work before. I'm pretty sure it's selected and I checked everything. Sound won't play anywhere but in foobar when I'm using it. I'm just mentioning this in case if it's related.
  
 Thank you for replying.


----------



## TrollDragon

That's explained in the manual, 24 only shows up when playing 96 or 192. Files that are 44 & 48 show up as 16 on the screen, you are still playing the 24/48 file in 24 bit its just the display only shows 16...

Also the volume in windows should be at max for bit perfect output with WASAPI, you adjust the output volume from the E09K.


----------



## plasmoic

Previously I mentioned that my screen was going darker...well the problem escalated really quickly





And this is even with macro mode(olloclip  )


----------



## Mace63

^ I'm sorry about your screen. I wonder what it is about. :/
  
 Quote:


trolldragon said:


> That's explained in the manual, 24 only shows up when playing 96 or 192. Files that are 44 & 48 show up as 16 on the screen, you are still playing the 24/48 file in 24 bit its just the display only shows 16...
> 
> Also the volume in windows should be at max for bit perfect output with WASAPI, you adjust the output volume from the E09K.


 
 I've just seen your post now (I didn't get the e-mail notification), and I wanted to thank you. I don't know how it didn't occur to me to look in the manual; but it really is all explained there. And also thanks for the tip!
  
 EDIT: I compared the same audio files both in 16 bit and 24 bit, and there was big difference between the two (The 16 bit one actually sounds a lot louder and fuller, but I can't really make up my mind to which one is "better"). Is this normal or is it possible that there is something wrong with my settings?


----------



## Stanfoo

Would the E17 be a good dac/amp for the HD598?


----------



## JoeDoe

stanfoo said:


> Would the E17 be a good dac/amp for the HD598?


 
 I've only heard the combo briefly, but I enjoyed it. The E17 is a little warm in sound, as is the HD598 so they will work well, but a slightly more neutral amp would pair even better methinks. 
  
 When it comes to headphone/amp/source matching I like to think that opposites attract. Neutral or bright sources and amps make warm or dark headphones sing and vice versa.


----------



## Stanfoo

drgazza said:


> Hi,
> I recently purchased an E17 and I wish to avoid stressing the headphone jack; can anyone recommend a small extension can be left always connected to the E17 and on which link the various headphones? the connection will always be E17 <-> extension <-> headphone, I do not seek a multiplier. Thank's in advance
> 
> 
> thank's in advance


 
  
 Is there a problem with using the E17's headphone jack that I'm unaware about? Why would it be stressed?


----------



## TrollDragon

stanfoo said:


> Is there a problem with using the E17's headphone jack that I'm unaware about? Why would it be stressed?


No problem with the jack like the Clip+ had, that poster just likes to plug and unplug from a short extension cable instead of the E17. Saves wear and tear and is easy to change a $6 short extension cable.


----------



## Stanfoo

What is the difference between "gain" and "volume"? Both makes the audio louder. What situations would I want to use one over the other?


----------



## TrollDragon

stanfoo said:


> What is the difference between "gain" and "volume"? Both makes the audio louder. What situations would I want to use one over the other?


Gain is your input level, my Colorfly C3 has a low output so I have to use a gain of 12 with it. Volume is the output level for your headphones which is adjustable.


----------



## Siftah

sushisamurai said:


> Eg: plug in something that manually draws more than 5V in a Mac, the OS (mavericks) will tell you it disconnected said device because it used too much power. Previous Mac OS's use to just disconnect but not tell users (frustrating for users), so they added that in for mavericks.


 
  
 No, OSX has done this for a long time, not just with Mavericks. Here's a post from 2006 mentioning the message; http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=233661


----------



## Stanfoo

Wondering what is the best way to go about increase volume and avoiding noise? For example I could go +60db at 0gain, or a lesser +db increase at 6gain, or even 12gain. Would putting the volume at max (60dB) cause any noise? What about gain?


----------



## TrollDragon

stanfoo said:


> Wondering what is the best way to go about increase volume and avoiding noise? For example I could go +60db at 0gain, or a lesser +db increase at 6gain, or even 12gain. Would putting the volume at max (60dB) cause any noise? What about gain?


You will have to try the various settings to see what sounds best for you with your source and headphones.


----------



## JeremyLaurenson

My brother has a Nexus 5 - I am wondering if someone can definitively tell me if the FiiO E17 Alpen will work with the Nexus 5 using a USB On the Go cable (OTG)
  
 I am also wondering if there is an OTG cable that does the cleanest MiniUSB-MicroUSB?
  
 TIA
  
 J


----------



## Stanfoo

I know it depends on my setup, but in general, what are the chances of 12 gain presenting audio problems? (i.e. noise/distortion). 6 gain is fine but 12 gain is doubling it, so I'm worried the gain increase is too much. Am I being paranoid?


----------



## TrollDragon

stanfoo said:


> I know it depends on my setup, but in general, what are the chances of 12 gain presenting audio problems? (i.e. noise/distortion). 6 gain is fine but 12 gain is doubling it, so I'm worried the gain increase is too much. Am I being paranoid?


Have you tried these setting out? I like to have my volume controls around 50% for a good listening level. If 0 gain won't give me that then I switch to 6...

What source are you using and which headphones?


----------



## Stanfoo

trolldragon said:


> Have you tried these setting out? I like to have my volume controls around 50% for a good listening level. If 0 gain won't give me that then I switch to 6...
> 
> What source are you using and which headphones?


 
  
 I'm using the E17 with the HD598. My source is optical toslink from my TV (only to watch movies). 0 gain +60 volume wasn't loud enough so I did 6gain and +54 volume which is just loud enough. However one of my movies is lower volume so I know 6 gain +60 volume won't cut it, I would have to go 12 gain, that is why I'm asking this. (I have not tried 12 gain yet).


----------



## TrollDragon

I have to run my Colorfly C3 with a gain of 12 in the E17, does your TV provide an option to control the volume out of the toslink, maybe you need to turn that up some? When I hook the E17 through optical on my MacBook the volume on the MacBook is set to the recommended max level.


----------



## Stanfoo

trolldragon said:


> I have to run my Colorfly C3 with a gain of 12 in the E17, does your TV provide an option to control the volume out of the toslink, maybe you need to turn that up some? When I hook the E17 through optical on my MacBook the volume on the MacBook is set to the recommended max level.


 
  
 When I try to change the volume via the TV remote, it only changes the TV's speakers volume, not the headphones/optical toslink volume.
  
 I will just have to see myself how 12 gain works out for me.


----------



## Stanfoo

I have movie A and movie B. Movie B's audio volume is noticeably lower than movie A (I can hear the difference, this is without the E17). However with the E17, movie B's audio level is the same as movie A. This is a good thing, I'm glad I don't have to up the gain for movie B.
  
 I'm just wondering what is the technical reason for this?


----------



## TheGrumpyOldMan

One possible explanation if it's a movie: it may have several audio tracks/mixes. Your computer-based player may default to the 5.1 mix (which may be at a lower level) via the built-in audio (maybe converted to stereo). If you run it through the E17 which accepts only pure stereo, it may switch to the actual stereo track which may be at a higher gain.
  
 You can check this on most software players by looking in an "Audio" or similar menu which A) tells you if several mixes are available and B) lets you switch between them. Listen if the volume changes when switching between the tracks.


----------



## JoeDoe

Been pretty impressed with the E17 paired with my iPod 5.5 lately, by I've decided to sell both as I dot really want to carry a stack anymore. PM if you're interested.


----------



## CybDev

talisman42 said:


> I have an issue with my Fiio e17... Since I do have it on often during the day (and night) it appears that the characters on the lcd screen has burned it? So if I scroll, the burned in text overlaps the other menu options as I scroll through them. Is this is known issue? Can fiio send me a fixed one? Thanks




Mine has burned in "USB 11" across the display in the same way you describe as well...


----------



## TrollDragon

Not implementing a Display Timer was a really bad design choice from FiiO...


----------



## j255

Is there anyone who can tell if teaming up the E17 with Beyerdynamic's Custom One Headphones (16 Ohm) would work out well?
 I'm thinking about using it at a MacBook Pro, Dell PC and an HTC One.
 Thanks!


----------



## sfwalcer

Does anyone know if the Samsung Galaxy SII will work with the FiiO E17 via OTG???
  
 Would love to bypass the dac as well amp on the SII and just use everything the E17 has to offer. 
  
 Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## CybDev

sfwalcer said:


> Does anyone know if the Samsung Galaxy SII will work with the FiiO E17 via OTG???
> 
> Would love to bypass the dac as well amp on the SII and just use everything the E17 has to offer.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!




It will not work with the i9100 via OTG, tested against JB and KK.


----------



## mwillits

Looking forward to my FiiO E17 arriving this week. I enjoyed having one a year or so ago but sold it to help fund a Schiit Asgard2. At the time, I used the E17 with a pair of Etymotic HF3 IEMs. I now own a pair of Etymotic ER-4PT IEMs, which I paired with a Meridian DAC (before I sold it). At this point I'm curious if anyone might share their experience using the E17 with ER-4PT IEMs, particularly with or without the ER-4S inline adapter.


----------



## imeem

i notice that when using optical, it will drain battery a lot faster.


----------



## CybDev

imeem said:


> i notice that when using optical, it will drain battery a lot faster. Also when i use the L7 LOD, turning it on or off will revert back to USB instead of optical.




Did you disable USB charging when using USB instead of optical? I haven't noticed much change...


----------



## imeem

cybdev said:


> Did you disable USB charging when using USB instead of optical? I haven't noticed much change...


 
 i disable it when i was using it with usb. when using optical I enabled it because i figure it shouldn't affect the overall battery health (unlike when you enable usb charging and you are using the E17 via USB).
  
 Is it also because i set the sample rate to 192 khz?


----------



## CybDev

imeem said:


> i disable it when i was using it with usb. when using optical I enabled it because i figure it shouldn't affect the overall battery health (unlike when you enable usb charging and you are using the E17 via USB).
> 
> Is it also because i set the sample rate to 192 khz?




IIRC I never had mine work above 24/96, never x/192.


----------



## imeem

i have mines set to 24/192 because Jriver wikia told me to.


----------



## imeem

k my battery quickly went down from full charge to 1 battery in 1 day. This never happened when using usb with 24/96 khz and i charge it  every 1-2 weeks. I will try 24/96 again on optical  to see if it's the high sample rate's fault or optical.


----------



## thug behram

Canadians, where is the cheapest place the buy this? The price I've seen is 140+tax. I'm gonna upgrade from my e07k mainly for the optical in so I can get bit perfect sound from my ps3. Its not a downgrade somehow right?


----------



## TrollDragon

thug behram said:


> Canadians, where is the cheapest place the buy this? The price I've seen is 140+tax. I'm gonna upgrade from my e07k mainly for the optical in so I can get bit perfect sound from my ps3. Its not a downgrade somehow right?


The headphonebar.com in Vancouver, my E17, E12 and X3 all came from there. Great shop with free shipping!

The E17 will give you 24/192 on optical and a little more power, so its really up to you if you think it is worth the upgrade.


----------



## imeem

thug behram said:


> Canadians, where is the cheapest place the buy this? The price I've seen is 140+tax. I'm gonna upgrade from my e07k mainly for the optical in so I can get bit perfect sound from my ps3. Its not a downgrade somehow right?


 
 i got mines on sale at Canada Computer for 99.99 b4 tax last summer.


----------



## imeem

cybdev said:


> Did you disable USB charging when using USB instead of optical? I haven't noticed much change...


 
  
 hey i was doing some sound quality comparison between optical and USB @ the same bitrate and sample rate, I find that for me, optical improves the bass response, makes my music sound "fuller", and it's a lot louder than USB @ the same volume. For USB, there's less bass, quieter, but the highs/vocals seems to stand out more. You could say that it sounds like it has been EQ'd.
  
 Do you notice a similar difference between USB and optical? I was actually surprised that i could hear differences and i thought it was my new amp for my speaker.


----------



## Fush

clieos said:


> It isn't for desktop, but for their HM801's balanced amp module. XLR is too big for portable use, that's why iBasso and RSA all adopt their own version of balanced plug.


I've been searching for this, but couldn't find the definitive answer: Does the output jack of the E17 support 4-pin (TRRS) headphone cables (cables with a mic), or do you need a 3-pin (TRS) cable?


----------



## ClieOS

fush said:


> I've been searching for this, but couldn't find the definitive answer: Does the output jack of the E17 support 4-pin (TRRS) headphone cables (cables with a mic), or do you need a 3-pin (TRS) cable?


 
  
 My E17 is broken due to accident so I can't answer your question. But a typical (Apple compatible) TRRS plug should work in E17 (as the plug should work almost universally), just that the mic won't work since E17 doesn't have any hardware inside to support mic.


----------



## CybDev

imeem said:


> hey i was doing some sound quality comparison between optical and USB @ the same bitrate and sample rate, I find that for me, optical improves the bass response, makes my music sound "fuller", and it's a lot louder than USB @ the same volume. For USB, there's less bass, quieter, but the highs/vocals seems to stand out more. You could say that it sounds like it has been EQ'd.
> 
> Do you notice a similar difference between USB and optical? I was actually surprised that i could hear differences and i thought it was my new amp for my speaker.




Can't remember, I use mine at work these days, but have no optical source there...


----------



## thug behram

How would you guys describe the difference between the amp section and anything else between the e17 and e07k? I'm about to upgrade because of the optical in and I'm wondering if id be getting any thing else in return.


----------



## TrollDragon

I've never heard the E07K but aside from the optical in you can use a 24/192 resolution on the optical / coax port.

The screen on the E17 stays on all the time unless you use the hold button, so you will end up with burnin down the road.


----------



## imeem

i'm comparing the battery life between optical and USB. With optical, the E17 dies after ~7 hours and 47 minutes of continuous use. With USB, i'm still testing it and so far it has been 13 hours and there is still 4 bars left. 
  
 Testing it with L7 LOD and USB charging off of course.


----------



## TrollDragon

Nice to know the battery usage with optical on and off. It makes sense that the battery would drain faster with the optical turned on as the transceiver will draw power when it is in use.


----------



## imeem

trolldragon said:


> Nice to know the battery usage with optical on and off. It makes sense that the battery would drain faster with the optical turned on as the transceiver will draw power when it is in use.


 
 i emailed Fiio and they said that USB and optical is suppose to have identical battery life. Right now, USB in is approaching 18 hours. Still has 4 bars. 
  


> Thanks for your mail and support to FiiO!
> 
> If so, it is weird that the "spdif in" use more battery compare to the "usb in". OK, pls do more comparison between spdif and USB and check whether the E17 is OK. The battery life should about 10 hours or more.


----------



## CybDev

I think you will find the E17 draws quite a bit of power from the USB host even if you turn off the USB charge option... Seems a bit fishy to me, maybe there is a connection...


----------



## imeem

maybe you're right. For my next test, i'm going to use optical in, but have USB connected too (with usb charging off) to see if it does "charges" even when USB charging off.


----------



## imeem

cybdev said:


> I think you will find the E17 draws quite a bit of power from the USB host even if you turn off the USB charge option... Seems a bit fishy to me, maybe there is a connection...


 
  
 got another update from Fiio. Seems like some customer service agent are misinformed, but this one confirm that USB charging off still charges a little. 


> *Thanks for your mail and support to FiiO!
> 
> Kindly inform you that, this result is normal. Your E17 is OK.
> If you use E17 work as a DAC via USB port, the power for most of the chips still from USB port but not battery even though USB CHG be set as OFF. USB CHG be set as OFF can stop the battery be charged but can't stop the power supply from the computer.
> ...


----------



## CybDev

Maybe that's why we have trouble getting it to work with OTG on android phones...


----------



## thug behram

What gain is best for 32 ohm phones?


----------



## TrollDragon

Whichever gain sounds best to you, there is no rule...


----------



## imeem

one question, what device was the E17 originally designed for? I ask this because  judging from the accessories (short cables, the rubber band) it comes with, it's meant for mp3 players and ipods. But not all of them support LOD.


----------



## ClieOS

imeem said:


> one question, what device was the E17 originally designed for? I ask this because  judging from the accessories (short cables, the rubber band) it comes with, it's meant for mp3 players and ipods. But not all of them support LOD.


 
  
 There isn't any particular device E17 is designed for. Multipurpose is the key feature.


----------



## benbenkr

imeem said:


> got another update from Fiio. Seems like some customer service agent are misinformed, but this one confirm that USB charging off still charges a little.


 
  
 This is true.
 I've done this test previously, where I went from USB to Optical to just the aux input.
  
 Both the optical and aux input has the same time where the battery would run out after 8 hours (a far cry from the 15 hours rated by FiiO). On USB, my E17 ran out after 23 hours believe it or not and this was with continuos usage. If I was using the E17 normally with USB as in a few hours a day, it could last for weeks even.


----------



## ImmaLizard

Question about using the E17 with an iPod or iPhone.  If I used a 30 pin to mini USB cable similar to the one in the link below, would that allow me to use the E17 as a DAC/Amp?  I am under the impression that the only way to use the E17 DAC function is through the mini USB input.  Analog in would bypass the DAC and only use the E17 as an Amp.
  
 http://www.aloaudio.com/sxc-24-30-pin-to-usb-mini-a
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TrollDragon

Only certified iDevices will bypass the DAC in 30 pin apple products. Your best bet is a 30 pin LOD to go Line In on the E17.

Or purchase a Cypher labs DAC/Amp or similar product to bypass the iPods DAC.


----------



## ImmaLizard

trolldragon said:


> Your best bet is a 30 pin LOD to go Line In on the E17.


 
  
 Yup, that is what I currently do but that setup uses the iPod/iPhone DAC, right?  Just trying to see if there was any workaround.


----------



## TrollDragon

immalizard said:


> Yup, that is what I currently do but that setup uses the iPod/iPhone DAC, right?  Just trying to see if there was any workaround.


 

 Yes it does, the only workaround will cost you $500+...


----------



## FiioFiend

I have a question about the E17. I noticed that when I use the L7 to output to my speakers with the lineout, but I noticed that sound still comes out of the headphone jack of the E17 at the same time. Is this right to get the best signal from the lineout, does the lineout get affected at all by the gain and EQ settings on the E17?
  
 I had trouble with an L7 that refused to charge my E17, but I just had the L7 replaced and am now ready to start settling in with my E17. I also just discovered what the hold switch is for, had I used it sooner it wouldn't have burned into my screen :3


----------



## imeem

fiiofiend said:


> I have a question about the E17. I noticed that when I use the L7 to output to my speakers with the lineout, but I noticed that sound still comes out of the headphone jack of the E17 at the same time. Is this right to get the best signal from the lineout, does the lineout get affected at all by the gain and EQ settings on the E17?
> 
> I had trouble with an L7 that refused to charge my E17, but I just had the L7 replaced and am now ready to start settling in with my E17. I also just discovered what the hold switch is for, had I used it sooner it wouldn't have burned into my screen :3


 
 ya sound comes out of my headphone jack too when i use the L7. When using the L7, make sure to flip the switch on the LO bypass to on so you are no double amping.


----------



## ClieOS

fiiofiend said:


> I have a question about the E17. I noticed that when I use the L7 to output to my speakers with the lineout, but I noticed that sound still comes out of the headphone jack of the E17 at the same time. Is this right to get the best signal from the lineout, does the lineout get affected at all by the gain and EQ settings on the E17?
> 
> I had trouble with an L7 that refused to charge my E17, but I just had the L7 replaced and am now ready to start settling in with my E17. I also just discovered what the hold switch is for, had I used it sooner it wouldn't have burned into my screen :3


 
  
 It is normal that the line-out and headphone-out both have sound. Line-out is the cleaner signal of the two, but if you want EQ and gain, uses the LO bypass switch to switch between line-out or headphone-out to send to the L7.


----------



## FiioFiend

clieos said:


> It is normal that the line-out and headphone-out both have sound. Line-out is the cleaner signal of the two, but if you want EQ and gain, uses the LO bypass switch to switch between line-out or headphone-out to send to the L7.


 
 Ah, I see. So one thing I'm unsure of, I do want the best sound quality for the lineout to my speakers without double amping, should the LO switch be flicked up towards the LCD or away from it?


----------



## TrollDragon

fiiofiend said:


> Ah, I see. So one thing I'm unsure of, I do want the best sound quality for the lineout to my speakers without double amping, should the LO switch be flicked up towards the LCD or away from it?


 
 You can actually try both ways to see which way you like, you wont be double amping...
  
 All the info is available right here on how to control the LO switch and various hookups.
http://fiio.com.cn/UploadFiles/main/Images/2012/12/20121210151457.pdf


----------



## FiioFiend

trolldragon said:


> You can actually try both ways to see which way you like, you wont be double amping...
> 
> All the info is available right here on how to control the LO switch and various hookups.
> http://fiio.com.cn/UploadFiles/main/Images/2012/12/20121210151457.pdf


 
 Thanks for that document. Am I reading the diagram right, when the switch is up towards the LCD it means the lineout bypass is on (meaning pure signal) and when the switch is pointed down away from the LCD it means the lineout bypass is off (meaning poorer quality signal for my speakers)?


----------



## TrollDragon

I don't have an E17 in front of me but in Line Out mode the volume / bass / treble controls do not work. In Headphone mode they do.


----------



## AN94Master

I have the senn momentums and am buying the fiio x5.I mostly listen to flac music.Is e17 a good choice for this combination? Any other suggestions?


----------



## TrollDragon

You don't need an amp for the X5, I picked up an E12 for my X3 and it is not required as the X3 like the X5 has lots of power.


----------



## FiioFiend

I don't need an amp for my ATH-AD700s either, they are famously easy to drive and on paper an extra amp is too much for it. But sometimes the extra punch of the gain 6 or even gain 12 setting on the E17 is nice, certain songs or movies. I always try max volume on 0 gain first because the less gain the less distortion apparently, but with some sources sometimes (not often) the extra power the E17 offers is nice.
  
 AD700 is an excellent headphone btw. I spent almost four times as much on top rated powered speakers (Aktimate mini+) and the speakers don't sound anywhere near as good.


----------



## TrollDragon

Yes but getting an E17 for an X5 is pointless as the X5 has more output power than the E17 does.


----------



## thug behram

im having a problem that happens often. my e17 wont turn on randomly and the only way to get it to work is hit the reset with a pin. how do i fix this?


----------



## Stanfoo

Used this at 6gain 60volume for a month or so, now the volume sounds lower than it used to sound, had to up gain to 12 to actually sound decently loud again. Is it just me slowly going deaf or the device's fault?


----------



## TrollDragon

You run this wide open into headphones?

Where do you control the volume from, your source? And what headphones?


----------



## Stanfoo

trolldragon said:


> You run this wide open into headphones?
> 
> Where do you control the volume from, your source? And what headphones?


 

 Yes connected to headphones, HD598, source is TV. Volume controlled by the E17. I'm playing the same files and didn't change anything so its either the device or me.


----------



## benbenkr

stanfoo said:


> Yes connected to headphones, HD598, source is TV. Volume controlled by the E17. I'm playing the same files and didn't change anything so its either the device or me.


 
  
 Pretty sure it's you.
  
 Because max volume with medium gain on the HD598 is flippingly loud in the first place. I know, because I've got a HD558 and it's ridiculous enough to go above 48 on the volume on medium gain (6db).


----------



## imeem

idk if this is the right palce to post, but my optical cable is stuck inside the mini toslink adapter. Any1 have a clue to get it out?


----------



## TrollDragon

Pull? Pull Harder? The little square hole you see there is the recess for the bump on the cable that holds it in place. Try a pair of pliers to gently squeeze the mini adapter on both sides away from the holes and work / wiggle the cable out.


----------



## imeem

got it removed, i had to use those flat screw driver to push it out. Had to jab the part where the part where the black meets the gold. Hope i didn't damage anything because i heard a sound


----------



## stevetoney

On my last business trip a few weeks ago, I had an hour to kill so I stopped by an airport sound shop...what's in called Invision or something like that.  Anyway, chit chatted with the guy for a bit about my recent money pit hobby...that being headphones and he understood completely.  Naturally, he talked me into trying out some stuff...a pair of Beyer planar phones and a couple of IEMs.  I was proud of myself that I only walked out $150 lighter.  I couldda probably dropped a grand without a problem.  Anyway, the $150 went to an Alpen and so far I'm really loving this little thing.  OK, soundwise I probably get slightly better sound from a Ray Samuels SR-71A that I'm using, but the difference maker for me is the versatility.  I like to listen to music in bed and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the sleep control on this thing because it's not unusual that I fall asleep and wake up in the middle of the night with my phones still on.  If I'm using a portable amp like the Ray Samuels, the battery might be drained by morning.  With this sucker, I just set the sleep setting to 30 or 40 minutes and it shuts off on its own.  Love it!


----------



## Allucid

Selling an E17 if anyone is interested.


----------



## gannjunior

HI guys
  
 I have a galaxy note 3
 and a Fiio E17
  
 which is the right cable I have to buy to connect fiio to  note3, bypassing internal amp of note3 and  to be able to get the 24/192 ?
  
 thanks!
  
 ciao


----------



## TrollDragon

The E17 supports 24/192 on Optical or Coax only, not USB.


----------



## Darkimmortal

Wish the dock connector was designed a bit better - I've just managed to fry my E17 by accidentally connecting the L7 lineout adapter the wrong way round (on mine the force required to insert it is equal with either orientation) and leaving it with USB power attached overnight.
  
 Woke up to a very warm device with no signs of life other than the red charging light.


----------



## TrollDragon

Wow that is really bad, the dock connector is really cheap and poorly designed. 

Something to be said about the quality of Apple docks for sure, even the E09K dock fit is really sloppy.

I take it you have tried the reset and or letting the battery run out type stuff?


----------



## gannjunior

trolldragon said:


> The E17 supports 24/192 on Optical or Coax only, not USB.


 
 thank you mate
  
 so I understand that if I connect E17 to my pc, the only way is via usb and I get 24/96.
 and the best connection I can get with my note3 is again usb 24/96. correct?
 no way to use 24/192 optical on note3?
  
 thanks


----------



## TrollDragon

gannjunior said:


> thank you mate
> 
> so I understand that if I connect E17 to my pc, the only way is via usb and I get 24/96.
> and the best connection I can get with my note3 is again usb 24/96. correct?
> ...


 
  
 Yes the best you will get from your PC with USB on the E17 is 24/96
  
 The GN3 has no S/PDIF port so optical is out and with the E17 through USB the best you will get is 24/96
  
 You might want to look into a hiFace DAC which will give you 24/192 on USB from your PC and GN3...
 http://www.m2tech.biz/it/hiface_dac.html


----------



## SpiderNhan

gannjunior said:


> thank you mate
> 
> so I understand that if I connect E17 to my pc, the only way is via usb and I get 24/96.
> and the best connection I can get with my note3 is again usb 24/96. correct?
> ...


 
 I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you have a ton of 24/192 music. The only thing I have in my collection with that bitrate  and sample rate is Dr. Chesky's album which I almost never listen to.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

I plan to use this unit as DAC on my desktop PC via Optical input. Can i plug the USB for charging and operate at the same time while this is connected on my PC via TOSLINK?


----------



## TrollDragon

goldenboyxd said:


> I plan to use this unit as DAC on my desktop PC via Optical input. Can i plug the USB for charging and operate at the same time while this is connected on my PC via TOSLINK?


Yes, you just select OPT to switch inputs.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Nice to know. So that means i will not run out of battery while the USB is connected and the TOSLINK at the same time?


----------



## TrollDragon

As long as the USB is plugged in, it will charge. Unless you have USB charging turned off in the menu of course. 

Plug in your toslink & USB, switch the E17 to optical and your good to go.


----------



## benbenkr

Also, know that if you plug in the USB to the E17 and you don't have the USB Charge option enabled, the E17 will primarily run off the USB power instead of the battery. The amp circuit will be using the USB power and the battery will only be used for the screen and DAC.
  
 This is the reason why it takes literally more than a week to drain the battery on the E17 (on an average of 3-5 hours of usage time a day) if it is plugged into the USB.
  
 It's good practice to just disable USB Charge if the battery is over 50% (3 bars) and just use the E17 plugged in (not charging). Charging and using it at the same time aren't good for the Panda batteries on the E17. This goes the same for the E12/E18.


----------



## vipervick

I listen to the E17 for about 10 hours during night shift. I don't want to deal with the battery, so I always have the USB plugged into a charger.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Thanks for your inputs. I appreciate it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now to look for a good E17 deal.


----------



## imeem

does the E17 support 32 bit? I ask this because when i use jriver and i select automatic bit depth, it chooses 32 bit.


----------



## ClieOS

imeem said:


> does the E17 support 32 bit? I ask this because when i use jriver and i select automatic bit depth, it chooses 32 bit.


 
  
 No. You will get 24bit 96kHz max from USB connection.


----------



## StevenF19

Anyone know why I would be getting "USB device not recognized" when plugging in the E09K with the docked E17 into my computer? I've tried switching cables and USB ports as well as trying a different computer.


----------



## xezi

Hi, 
  
 I tried to do my homework and read the most of this thread posts,
 apologies if double asking...
  
 I'd like to buy an E17 for using with PC and galaxy SIII.
  
 I currently own only really low end equipment:
  
 · Philips citiscape earphone (12-23.5kHz / 32ohm / 30mW)
 · SoundMagic E10 earphone (ordered, didn't arrive yet)
 · Sony MDRV6 (ordering next month).
  
 I'd like to please ask
 · first if E17 is currently working with OTG/SIII,
 · if E17 would represent a noticeable improvement on onboard soundcard, PC wise, and Wolfson's SIII.
  
 I'm mainly looking for lower THD and some soundstage,
 don't know if I'm asking too much from E17.
  
 Anyway, 
 thanks in advance.
  
 Xezi.


----------



## imeem

clieos said:


> No. You will get 24bit 96kHz max from USB connection.


 
 i use optical and for sum reason, it outputs in 32 bit in Jriver media center.


----------



## Bullpride

Speaking of optical, does anyone have any experience with the FIIO L12 3.5 to 3.5 optical cable? Considering picking one up to use with my Macbook so I can take advantage of the optical signal instead of using the USB. 
  
http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000018364884&MenuID=105026009


----------



## benbenkr

bullpride said:


> Speaking of optical, does anyone have any experience with the FIIO L12 3.5 to 3.5 optical cable? Considering picking one up to use with my Macbook so I can take advantage of the optical signal instead of using the USB.
> 
> http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000018364884&MenuID=105026009


 
  
 There's no difference (at least I doubt anyone will be able to hear it, it's digital anyways) to an ordinary optical cable + the included converter.
  
 The only reason to get it is that you're sick of removing the converter from the optical cable and afraid of breakage. But yeah, it's a convenient cable I guess, but other than convenience there's no reason to get it.


----------



## Bullpride

benbenkr said:


> There's no difference (at least I doubt anyone will be able to hear it, it's digital anyways) to an ordinary optical cable + the included converter.
> 
> The only reason to get it is that you're sick of removing the converter from the optical cable and afraid of breakage. But yeah, it's a convenient cable I guess, but other than convenience there's no reason to get it.


 
  
 I am currently not using an optical cable.  Signal from my Macbook to my e17 is through the USB. My question:  is it worth getting an optical cable instead of using the USB.


----------



## TrollDragon

Only if you want 24/192 playback through the E17.


----------



## benbenkr

bullpride said:


> I am currently not using an optical cable.  Signal from my Macbook to my e17 is through the USB. My question:  is it worth getting an optical cable instead of using the USB.


 
  
 Nope.
 USB = digital.
 Optical = digital.
  
 There isn't going to be a difference. Perhaps if your power source is dirty (your Macbook), it could create unwanted pops, hiss and distortion when you move your mouse. That's unlikely however, since Macbooks are generally well designed and the E17 runs off its battery anyways.
  
 The only other use is that if you play games and you're using a DSP like Dolby Heapdhone and want to output that to the E17, otherwise nope no point to the optical cable.


----------



## ClieOS

TOSlink (optical) can have higher jitter than USB (and often it is in many case), but whether it will be significant enough to be audible or not is another matter. But as pointed out, using TOSlink avoid the problem of dirty USB.


----------



## howdy

As far as the amp goes which do you prefer and why the E11 or the E17? I don't care about the DAC of the E17 only the amp. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ClieOS

howdy said:


> As far as the amp goes which do you prefer and why the E11 or the E17? I don't care about the DAC of the E17 only the amp. Thanks in advance.


 
  
 Is this a question for me? I don't actually find one to be superior to the other. Besides E11 is a bit more warmish while the E17 is slightly more neutral (while still on the warm side), the difference in performance is small between the amp sections.


----------



## benbenkr

howdy said:


> As far as the amp goes which do you prefer and why the E11 or the E17? I don't care about the DAC of the E17 only the amp. Thanks in advance.


 
  
 Honestly, the E17. I found the E11 to be too dark.
 But the entire point of buying an E17 is versatility and that's pretty much the sole reason you have to decide on if you're planning to have either.
  
 But honestly if you don't care about the DAC on the E17, why not just head for the E12 instead?


----------



## howdy

clieos said:


> Is this a question for me? I don't actually find one to be superior to the other. Besides E11 is a bit more warmish while the E17 is slightly more neutral (while still on the warm side), the difference in performance is small between the amp sections.



Yes it was directed at you, but anyone who has both can answer. So is there a huge sonic difference? I had the E17 a while back and liked it but if I can save 80 bucks I will. I have tried the E12 and did not like it as much as theE17 and the E12 is to big and way more power than I need.


----------



## TrollDragon

I have the E11, E12 and E17 and I enjoy all three.
  

E11 is attached to the Colorfly C3 due to its low powered output for driving full size headphones.
E12 is attached to the X3 for when I want to listen with the DT880's, the E12 add the needed power that the X3 just cant quite deliver to those headphones.
E17 stays docked in my E09K as a desktop DAC and Line stage for my tube amplifier.
  
 So I use them for different purposes, I really don't worry about minor sonic differences between the amplifiers as different headphones are used with all three rigs.


----------



## howdy

Thanks Troll, so how do you like the E11 overall than? Do you find it dark or warm. How do you think it would pair with an iPod classic?


----------



## TrollDragon

I run the C3 with my JVC HAS500's and Ultrasone HFI780's with a lot of EDM, so a warm amplifier is a plus for me, Bass Boost setting 1 on the E11 and I'm good to go. Before the C3 I ran it with a 3rd Gen nano and the FiiO L9 LOD.

If you leave the Bass Boost off, I didn't find it that bad, it's no Zo2 by any means, if you need more power out of the Classic, the E11 should give you the boost you need depending on the headphones. Does not drive my beyer's at all but its's a $50 amplifier and there are not many at that price point that perform as well as the E11.

Pick it up from Amazon, if you don't like it send it back.


----------



## howdy

I'm going to buy the E17 , I can get one new for 110.00. Thanks for the help


----------



## Yawdib

Hi guys. I've been reading this forum quite a lot over the last few weeks, researching my first real foray into this seemingly endless money pit of a hobby... Now I have a question or two about this lovely little FiiO device 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well, maybe this isn't exactly my first attempt at getting quality audio, since I had some Sennheiser HD555s a few years back (and yes, I'm sure they don't even come close to the 598s and 650s of the world today), but this is certainly my first leap into the world of DACs and amps anyway...
  
 Basically I just bought myself one of these E17s and first impressions out of the box were fantastic. It really looks and feels like a quality piece of equipment; a far cry from the plastic clad Asus U7 Echelon USB sound card I decided to return a few weeks ago.
 I've been using the E17 for a few days now and unfortunately I honestly haven't heard much of an increase in SQ over my laptop's on-board Realtek chip (though I do gather it's apparently one of Realtek's better offerings: the ALC269), which is obviously disappointing, but I'm going to give it time to grow on me as I do like the build quality of it so much. It's likely I'll be keeping it if only for the optical input to connect it up to the Xbox and PS4 anyway, which is a very handy feature.
  
 For reference, I'm using the Sennheiser PC360 headset, which has the same drivers as my old HD555.
  
 So anyway, a question! Basically I'm already looking towards possible future purchases (all this audio research is getting to me!) and I have my eye on the Sennheiser HD650s which will apparently need more power than the E17 can probably provide. I am wondering how well the E17 will perform as purely a DAC alongside something like either the Objective2 or Schiit Magni amps?
  
 From my limited knowledge I gather that the E17's DAC component is of particularly high quality, so I figured combining that with one of the above amps would result in an excellent combination for the price. Is that correct, or would the Modi/Magni and ODAC/O2 DAC/amp combinations blow the E17's DAC out of the water?
  
 Perhaps I'm unfairly dismissing the E09K? I was under the impression that the O2 and Magni are much better options for pretty much the same price though.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## DarkAndroid

agentxxl said:


> I assume some sarcasm here about the mis-phrasing of 'turning your E17 into a laptop' and not how you configure the E17 to lock at 96KHz 24 bit for playback? But just in case you weren't being sarcastic and really wanted to know how to lock the E17 at 96KHz for playback, here's how you do it:
> 
> On a Mac you go into Applications - Utilities - Audio Midi Setup, choose the Fiio E17 from the list of playback devices and then set the output format as 96.000KHz and 2 ch - 24 bit integer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Apart from doing this, is there anything else one can do to optimize their Windows laptop in order to get the best sound quality from the E17? I play music in Foobar using WASAPI, so the sound quality while doing that is pretty good, but for other tasks such as playing games or watching blu-ray content, I want to know what I can do to get maximum sound quality. When the headphones are plugged into it but I'm not playing any sound from any source, I can hear very faint but still audible static pops and crackles every few minutes, this does happen during playback as well.


----------



## SpiderNhan

darkandroid said:


> Apart from doing this, is there anything else one can do to optimize their Windows laptop in order to get the best sound quality from the E17? I play music in Foobar using WASAPI, so the sound quality while doing that is pretty good, but for other tasks such as playing games or watching blu-ray content, I want to know what I can do to get maximum sound quality. When the headphones are plugged into it but I'm not playing any sound from any source, I can hear very faint but still audible static pops and crackles every few minutes, this does happen during playback as well.



I only notice static and pops when my E17 is placed next to or near my cell phone. Have you tried placing your unit away from other electronic devices?


----------



## imeem

spidernhan said:


> I only notice static and pops when my E17 is placed next to or near my cell phone. Have you tried placing your unit away from other electronic devices?


 
 this. IDK why the E17 pick up interference when using it as a amp/dac. But it doesn't when only using it as a dac, like my other amps don't do this. This IMO makes the E17 a poor choice when pairing it up with a smartphone. Would be ironic if the E18 does this too.


----------



## DarkAndroid

I dont generally keep my smartphone near the E17. There are several other devices around it though, including external hard drives, an external blu-ray drive, and a monitor. Even when these devices are turned off however I still hear the faint pops sometimes. I use the device mainly in optical, I tried using USB and in both connections I was hearing the pop noise, but I suspect that it could be that charging the device while using it might be source of the problem, so I will disconnect the USB charger and let it run on battery.
  
 External interference aside, I just want to make sure that I have the right settings and configurations on my Windows system in order to get best performance from this DAC.


----------



## Yawdib

darkandroid said:


> When the headphones are plugged into it but I'm not playing any sound from any source, I can hear very faint but still audible static pops and crackles every few minutes, this does happen during playback as well.


 
  
 I think I might know what your problem is...
  
 When connecting over optical from my laptop I get the same audible static noise as you do (though it's more like every few seconds than minutes). As far as I can tell it's because my laptop's toslink doesn't properly support 96khz or higher sample rates, but when selecting anything lower than that in Windows I'm static free.
  
 This problem also raises its head even if you select lower than 96khz in Windows and then ask foobar to play a 96khz or 192khz track in WASAPI mode, since that's exactly what foobar does, bypassing the Windows settings.
  
 Because of this I'm restricted to using USB for the little amount of high resolution music I own, but that's not so bad. It saves the optical port for the consoles anyway, even though I would prefer to use it for every connection.


----------



## SpiderNhan

darkandroid said:


> I dont generally keep my smartphone near the E17. There are several other devices around it though, including external hard drives, an external blu-ray drive, and a monitor. Even when these devices are turned off however I still hear the faint pops sometimes. I use the device mainly in optical, I tried using USB and in both connections I was hearing the pop noise, but I suspect that it could be that charging the device while using it might be source of the problem, so I will disconnect the USB charger and let it run on battery.
> 
> External interference aside, I just want to make sure that I have the right settings and configurations on my Windows system in order to get best performance from this DAC.


 
 I've also read that the E17 shouldn't be charging while it's in use. The Panda batteries that it uses will deteriorate faster if you do that.


----------



## PsiCore

Nevermind


----------



## kleefurd

Personal observation.

 If you are using the E17 docked (with E09K) with a MacBook Pro or any of the Macs with a combo (audio/optical) output, you should use the optical output and connect to the the E17 via "OPT" (S/PDIF) input. I find that by selecting this set up gives me a much smoother sound especially when listening to blues/jazz. The "brittleness" on the high frequencies somehow in this setting smooths out, especially with those brighter sounding headphones.

 MBP -> E17 (optical cable into S/PDIF port on top of E17) -> Docked into E09K -> Headphones
 Volume setting : MBD (max) - E17 (50) - E09K (about 10 o'clock position)

 This works best for me when using the E17/E09K combo with my MacBook Pro Retina Display and Sennehiser HD25-1 or Westone W40 (+2 treble setting on E17 when used with these IEMs).

 Looking to getting a new pair of higher quality cans next week, and will update again a couple of weeks later when I muck around with the set up. Going to get a Coaxial set up going as well, but I guess it will add too much color to the sound, but that is part of the fun anyway... the tinkering and tweaking.

 Hope this will work well with those who shares a similar set up.

 I primarily listen to music at home through my studio monitors, this is my mobile set up when I am traveling.


----------



## Hiltonk

kleefurd said:


> Personal observation.
> 
> If you are using the E17 docked (with E09K) with a MacBook Pro or any of the Macs with a combo (audio/optical) output, you should use the optical output and connect to the the E17 via "OPT" (S/PDIF) input. I find that by selecting this set up gives me a much smoother sound especially when listening to blues/jazz. The "brittleness" on the high frequencies somehow in this setting smooths out, especially with those brighter sounding headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 I completely agree. Just tried going optical from my Asus Rampage IV Black to the E17 docked and the top end is definitely cleaner than using the E09K USB E17 DAC.
 A good album for testing brittle top end is Mariah Carey Daydream, particularly One Sweet Day and I Am Free.  Much smoother with optical via E17 than E09K USB.
 The E17/E09K is the perfect combo for the HD600 using this combo as the E17 on its own doesn't have the power to drive them properly!   (E17 as Optical DAC @ 192/24 and E09K as Headphone Amp)


----------



## Oregoneon

I just got my e17 last week and so far i'm really enjoying it. A few questions though.
  
 I use it probably half on the road and half at home. When home i have my computer hooked up through usb to a L7 going through the e17 (with lod bypass turned on) and into my amp.
 My question is when i have this going i can still control the volume from my computer. I was under the impression that using usb output i would be bypassing the dac in my computer, and therefore the volume and and eq? Is this correct? I just want to make sure i have everything hooked up correctly. It's going through my laptop with no optical or coax outputs.
 Also assuming it is correct, should i have my computer's volume at max or backed off some? Thanks for your help.


----------



## TrollDragon

In Windows when the computer volume control is maxed, this gives you bit perfect audio.

LO Bypass will disable the volume and tone controls on the E17 and give you a straight line out signal into your Amp which you would control the volume from.


----------



## kleefurd

oregoneon said:


> I just got my e17 last week and so far i'm really enjoying it. A few questions though.
> 
> I use it probably half on the road and half at home. When home i have my computer hooked up through usb to a L7 going through the e17 (with lod bypass turned on) and into my amp.
> My question is when i have this going i can still control the volume from my computer. I was under the impression that using usb output i would be bypassing the dac in my computer, and therefore the volume and and eq? Is this correct? I just want to make sure i have everything hooked up correctly. It's going through my laptop with no optical or coax outputs.
> Also assuming it is correct, should i have my computer's volume at max or backed off some? Thanks for your help.


 
 I think this is how FiiO implemented their USB connection to the computer to overcome a problem in their design... lack of headroom. Since discovering this I started to be careful with the way that I send signals into the E17. I would set about -12db to as much as -20db from my computer to the E17 so to make sure that songs with high dynamic ranges or heavily compressed and aggressively mastered tracks would not break up at the high VU levels. (Volume unit).

 So far it worked well for me when using the E17 as a DAC for the computer. I am not too technical with computer audio, so far I have no knowledge on how to test whether the DAC on the computer is completely bypassed when using the E17 as a DAC to replace the computer's. Another method that I use to completely bypass my computer is not to use the USB and instead, use the Optical Out on my Mac. And for some reasons, the high frequencies sounded more controlled when using Optical output of the Mac into the E17. The headroom is still a problem and therefore I lower the master volume level on my iTunes. (Bring it down by a hair).

 See if that works for you. Cheers.


----------



## Oregoneon

Thanks for the quick responses! Seems like everything is working properly. It's certainly a big improvement over going straight from computer>amp like i was doing before.


----------



## kleefurd

Glad it working well for you. That's what's important. Enjoy the music.


----------



## Thankful1

The aux cable in my E17 snagged on the corner of a table the other day and now I'm only getting sound through one ear.  The metal ring on the inside of the aux input had already fallen off a long time ago - not sure if that has anything to do with it .  Has anyone had any issues with their E17 and had to send it in for repair?  I'm no longer under warranty and I have no idea how much it would cost to fix, not to mention I've heard it takes two months.  I'm willing to attempt a DIY method but I don't even know what the exact issue is.


----------



## howdy

thankful1 said:


> The aux cable in my E17 snagged on the corner of a table the other day and now I'm only getting sound through one ear.  The metal ring on the inside of the aux input had already fallen off a long time ago - not sure if that has anything to do with it .  Has anyone had any issues with their E17 and had to send it in for repair?  I'm no longer under warranty and I have no idea how much it would cost to fix, not to mention I've heard it takes two months.  I'm willing to attempt a DIY method but I don't even know what the exact issue is.



If you move the balance all the way to the one that the side that does not work is there any sound coming from it? Did you try another LO cable to see if that might be the culprit. Just a couple of guesses.


----------



## Thankful1

howdy said:


> If you move the balance all the way to the one that the side that does not work is there any sound coming from it? Did you try another LO cable to see if that might be the culprit. Just a couple of guesses.


 
 I tried it with two different aux cables and different sets of headphones to no avail, but after draining and then recharging the battery it's working normally again.  I actually forgot there's a reset button I could've tried because I've never had to reset it before - I still don't know for sure if draining/recharging is what fixed it or if it was something internal that just got shaken up and then resettled.  Thanks for the help anyway though.


----------



## howdy

thankful1 said:


> I tried it with two different aux cables and different sets of headphones to no avail, but after draining and then recharging the battery it's working normally again.  I actually forgot there's a reset button I could've tried because I've never had to reset it before - I still don't know for sure if draining/recharging is what fixed it or if it was something internal that just got shaken up and then resettled.  Thanks for the help anyway though.


 

 Yeah, even electronics have brain farts not just old people like me. Im glad its working for you again!


----------



## Gabriel12

I know this is off topic but I really need some answer from you guys, does the e07k support the ipad/ipad 2?


----------



## TrollDragon

You would probably get a better answer asking that in an E7 thread...


----------



## FiJAAS

Is there a silicone case or leather case I can buy for the E17.


----------



## howdy

fijaas said:


> Is there a silicone case or leather case I can buy for the E17.



I really don't think so, if you go to a store that sells camera cases they work really great for amp and daps.


----------



## FiJAAS

Will the Fiio E17 work with the Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0? If so what cables would I need?


----------



## Torai

is the Fiio E17 in the same league as the new DragonFly?


----------



## TrollDragon

torai said:


> is the Fiio E17 in the same league as the new DragonFly?


 

 Feature wise the E17 is vastly superior, but I haven't heard the Dragonfly so I can't comment about the sound.


----------



## FiJAAS

jasonb said:


> The E17 works with the Samsung Galaxy S4 as a DAC with the help of an OTG cable!


 
  
 Can I have link to OTG cable?


----------



## CybDev

Using what player?
My GT-9506 does not recognize the e17 without a powered hub and custom player...


----------



## DumbCK

what do you mean by recognize? As in it won't play with the e17 connected? I'm not sure about the microusb input, but aux should probably work on all devices. As for a custom player, which one do you use? 
  
 On a side note, I'm so glad this thing is built durable. Dropped it more times than I'd like to mention and it still works perfectly fine, though it's suffered a few minor scratches.


----------



## ijchan223

anybody else having a issue with the battery discharging by itself. mines tend to die sitting in storage for a day . ( less than a year old)


----------



## noobandroid

fijaas said:


> Can I have link to OTG cable?


 
 jds labs is selling it


----------



## boybandista

What set-up should I get so that I could use this with my iTouch 5th Gen?
  
 I've read about the Apple CCK, then there's 3rd party adapters such as 30pin-to-Lightning and microUSB-to-Lightning available.
  
 Will they do?
  
 I'm not ready yet to jump on to more expensive portable amp/dacs such as AK10, Centrance etc. etc.


----------



## TrollDragon

FiiO gear does not have the Apple ID chips to act as a replacement DAC for iDevices. Your best bet is headphone out to the E17 or purchase an approved DAC, but as you found out those are quite expensive.


----------



## Hiltonk

I have an iPhone 5S IOS 7.1.1 working fine with the E17 and the Apple CCK.  I need a passive hub between the CCK and the E17 but it works.
 Almost all iPhone apps will only output 48kHz / 16bit though.  If I use AmpliFlac or Jriver to stream  96kHz/24bit FLAC it plays fine but with a low-level clicking noise. 
  
 The headphone out does indeed work well and is a lot less mess than adding in CCK and passive hub with assorted cables.
  
 Hopefully Apple will make a 96kHz /24bit patch with IOS 7.1.2 or IOS 8 to fix the clicking. Because non-certified devices are not meant to work, they may have intentionally made it that way or may go even further to stop non-certified devices working at all.


----------



## TrollDragon

Good to hear its working with iDevices, it never used to in the past.


----------



## Hiltonk

trolldragon said:


> Good to hear its working with iDevices, it never used to in the past.


 
 Here's some pics of my current setup.
  
 This was the best I could come up with after experimenting with several USB hubs and cables.
 I have a 20cm curly cord USB to Mini-USB cable on the way to replace the 40cm one in the pics below.
  
 I found this setup is the most user friendly as I can put the FiiO E17 in my pocket and still handle the iPhone.
 Also good for when just lounging around the house as I don't have to fumble to pick up 2 devices and dont have to worry about all the cables, hubs etc dangling.
  
 4 Port USB Hub, USB to mini USB and CCK all glued to the back of a Cygnett iPhone 5S case.

  
 Plugged in...
  

  
  
 Faith Hill Cry - DVD-A Rip to 96/24 Flac ready to go in Ampliflac.
  

  
  
 Plugged in ready to go... Backside...
  

  
  
 Front side..
  

  
 Close up showing 96kHz / 24 Bit output on AmpliFlac and 96kHz/24bit input on the FiiO E17.
  

  
  
 Fleetwood Mac Rumours - Dreams DVD-A rip to 96/24 Flac output from JRiver MC19 streaming to JRemote.
  

  
 As I mentioned earlier this all works great except for the clicking with 96/24 material.
 Until Apple or FiiO release a patch/update to fix the clicking I just down-sample in AmpliFlac or with JRiver MC19 down to 48/16.


----------



## AUserName501

Fiio E17 Alpen works with Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 SM-T325 (LTE) Stock ROM. It will probably work for SM-T320 (Wifi Only) as well. It doesn't notify you that a USB DAC is connected but audio is automatically routed over USB OTG to it and works for all applications.


----------



## shorty920

jamesfiio said:


> Sure, you can connect to the optical output in your xbox 360


 
 Hi, sorry for bumping up this old ass post, but can I ask you a very simple (and dumb) question?
  
 I have the 360 slim model, and I just bought a TOSLINK cable. But now I don't know what to do with it because the inputs don't fit in the 360. My E17 has an adapter tip which I think can be used to plug the TOSLINK cable into the S/PDIF IN opening on the E17 (I think). Do I need to get an adapter for the Xbox 360 Output as well? 
  
 (http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Digital-Optical-Audio-Toslink/dp/B001TH7GSW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402346201&sr=8-1&keywords=amazon+basics+toslink)
  
 If anyone can help me answer this, I would appreciate it very much! !!


----------



## AgentXXL

shorty920 said:


> jamesfiio said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, you can connect to the optical output in your xbox 360
> ...


 
  
 The optical cable you linked appears to be correct for plugging into the XBox 360. The connector is keyed so it only plugs in when the bevels on the connector line up with the bevels in the socket on the XBox 360. As you indicated, you do need to use the Fiio supplied adapter to plug the optical cable into the E17. Give it a try again and just take special notice of the orientation of the connector when trying to attach it to the XBox. Good luck!
  
 Dale


----------



## shorty920

agentxxl said:


> The optical cable you linked appears to be correct for plugging into the XBox 360. The connector is keyed so it only plugs in when the bevels on the connector line up with the bevels in the socket on the XBox 360. As you indicated, you do need to use the Fiio supplied adapter to plug the optical cable into the E17. Give it a try again and just take special notice of the orientation of the connector when trying to attach it to the XBox. Good luck!
> 
> Dale


 
 Awesome, thanks! You are right, it needs to line up. I didn't realize that at all n naturally just thought I goofed . Thanks for letting me know! Can't wait to game with sexy video AND audio


----------



## boybandista

So I've read the specs of Fiio X3 and E17 and found these:
  
 Fiio X3:


> F, DAC, one WM8740, not so perfect, but still very good to an DAP which designed for audiophile, we notice that SONY, iRiver also used WM8740 in their new portable DAC/AMP and DAP.


 
  
 Fiio E17


> *Sonic Impression*
> To make it short and sweet, I'll say E17 shares a large portion of its sound with E10, both on headphone-out as well as line-out. It is largely neutral but slightly on the warm side. It shouldn't be too surprising as the USB receiver (Tenor TE7022) and DAC chip (WM8740) are the same between the two.


 
   

  
 Fiio X3:


> H, AMP section change from TPA6130A to AD8397 which used in our ALPEN ( E17 ), I think most of our fans already know how good it will be in sound quality.


 
  
 Now for the noobish question,
  
 With the two sharing the same important specs, does this mean that the X3 is an E17 that you can use on its own? Or does it have different sound?


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

Can anybody confirm, if the optical out can play a Sony discman with optical out?


----------



## TrollDragon

The E17 has an Optical IN, so it should take the Optical OUT signal from your diskman.


----------



## rovopio

i'd like to ask, if i buy a fiio e17.. can i use it as a DAC only for example if in the future i want to use another amp...?
  
 say if in the future i buy schiit magni, can i connect it to fiio e17 and use it as a dac only...?


----------



## TrollDragon

rovopio said:


> i'd like to ask, if i buy a fiio e17.. can i use it as a DAC only for example if in the future i want to use another amp...?
> 
> say if in the future i buy schiit magni, can i connect it to fiio e17 and use it as a dac only...?


 
 Yes you can, but you would need the L7 Line Out dock to connect it to another amplifier properly.
 http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Line-Out-Dock-Cable/dp/B004QVNS0S


----------



## ClintonL

Hey guys, just got this running from my laptop to my IEMs and m50's wondering what settings you guys are using on this. Also what gain should i use low med or high? Better to use low gain with high volume or higher gain wiht low volume?

 Cheers


----------



## SpiderNhan

clintonl said:


> Hey guys, just got this running from my laptop to my IEMs and m50's wondering what settings you guys are using on this. Also what gain should i use low med or high? Better to use low gain with high volume or higher gain wiht low volume?
> 
> Cheers


 
 You should start low on gain and see how it sounds. If you feel something is missing, then go up one step until you find your ideal sound. I use low impedance headphones with my E17 (V-MODA XS/M-100) and I find 0 Gain to be too quiet, 6 Gain to give me the most dynamic sound, and 12 gain to be, for lack of a better word, "noisy." Each level up in gain changes the volume noticeably, but the finer details in the sound are what you should be listening for.


----------



## nephilim32

I'm a proud owner of the e 17 and e 9 docking station. It's excellent and I pair the docking station to my Harman Kardon amp and its truly wonderful.


----------



## TrollDragon

nephilim32 said:


> I'm a proud owner of the e 17 and e 9 docking station. It's excellent and I pair the docking station to my Harman Kardon amp and its truly wonderful.


 

 Congrats it's a great combo!
  
 If you find the E17 is a little sloppy and loose docked to the E09K I have a fix for that here.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/5610#post_9268523


----------



## SpiderNhan

I've been using the line-out on my Aune T1 to feed the E9 and the combination is superb. I can roll tubes which affect the DAC of section of the T1 while getting a cleaner, more powerful signal through the amp of the E9. As such, my E17 has been relegated to laptop duty. Yesterday, I plugged my E17 back into the E9 to do some comparative listening and noticed that, when docked, my left channel no longer works. The sound from the connection is crystal clear and I hear no distortion or anything indicative of a bad signal. There's just absolutely no sound from the left channel. I plugged it through the line-out and everything sounded fine.
  
 Has anyone else encountered this problem with the E17/E9 docked? And if so were you able to fix it? How would I go about cleaning the connectors?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

trolldragon said:


> The E17 has an Optical IN, so it should take the Optical OUT signal from your diskman.


 
 I ordered one on Thursday, hopefully it will be here Mon./Tue. I had the E7 (was one of my first amps) couple of years ago, but it didnt go to well. Hopefully, this will be a step up.


----------



## TrollDragon

Congratz and Welcome to the Club!


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

Thanks Dude! It has arrived but I'm too tired to open it tonight


----------



## vipervick

I just use it as an amp. Line out from my iPad. Sounds great with my ATH-M50's.


----------



## nephilim32

I am having so much fun with this E 17. It is such a fantastic product. Incredible versatility with this unit. I of course use it for when I'm on the go paired with my I pod via AUX With a premium copper litz cable, and for my bed room I use it with my JVC stereo as a line out paired with my Portable CD player. It's awesome. Quite a reasonable sound set up for sleep time. I just love it and I can understand why this DAC/AMP is rated #1 on this site.


----------



## nephilim32

trolldragon said:


> Congrats it's a great combo!
> 
> If you find the E17 is a little sloppy and loose docked to the E09K I have a fix for that here.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/5610#post_9268523




Awesome. Thank you. I will probably never purchase the E9 cause I really don't need it, mainly because I have a wonderful AUX/line out setting with my JVC stereo system. It works really really well to listen to my CDs outwardly through nice fairly warm analog signal. The versatility of the E 17 is incredible. I rate it very highly.


----------



## nephilim32

trolldragon said:


> Congrats it's a great combo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I forgot to mention that I borrowed my brothers E 9 and tested against my other set up with the JVC and their is no greater quality by utilizing the FIIO's DAC For non Headphone listening. For headphone listening I've gone the Burson soloist SL with the ARCAM irDAC route. And that kills the FIIO e17/e9 pairing unfortunately.


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

I have to say this thing is pretty amazing for its price. Optical out works fantastic and I have no issues with the battery as it lasts much longer than my HP-P1 & Pha-1.


----------



## nephilim32

audiobreeder said:


> I have to say this thing is pretty amazing for its price. Optical out works fantastic and I have no issues with the battery as it lasts much longer than my HP-P1 & Pha-1.




Absolutely. I think it's an amazing product and incredibly worth the measly $130 price tag. The versatility of the E 17 is amazing. I couldn't be happier and I am glad you are as well. Happy listening. -


----------



## maximix

I'm progressively diving into the audiophile world, and I was wondering : should I buy the E07K or the E17K ?
 The price difference is not that big, but I wonder if there will be any difference in sound quality to my hears, since I don't have exceptional audio gear for now.


----------



## TrollDragon

maximix said:


> I'm progressively diving into the audiophile world, and I was wondering : should I buy the E07K or the E17K ?
> The price difference is not that big, but I wonder if there will be any difference in sound quality to my hears, since I don't have exceptional audio gear for now.


 
 No there is basically no difference except that the E17 has an Optical/Coax jack and will do 24Bit / 192 KHz on that port.


----------



## thug behram

maximix said:


> I'm progressively diving into the audiophile world, and I was wondering : should I buy the E07K or the E17K ?
> The price difference is not that big, but I wonder if there will be any difference in sound quality to my hears, since I don't have exceptional audio gear for now.




I had the e07k and I switched to e17. Its worth it. The e17 has optical in (which is more useful than you might think) and has a much better amp section with better sq. Its not as warm or veiled or rolled off in the treble as the e07k. Definitely more clear.


----------



## Head-Fried

How would these drive sennheiser hd6 mix's? They're 150 ohm's so that shouldn't be a problem but would they get loud enough?


----------



## florin5000

Hello,

I have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 250 ohms. I used them with the combo FIIO E07K(DAC)+FIIO E09K(AMP) and it was fabulous... when I introduced E09K the sound was at least with 2 classes better (bass, soundstage, highs, etc).
I sold my FiiO combo and I bought FiiO E18 as I saw from reviews that is a better DAC even than E17 witch is better than E07K. Also for amplification I bough a Little Dot MK V solid state...
So now I am using FiiO E18 as DAC and Little DOT MK V as AMP and I am not happy with the sound on DT 880 PRO... It was so much better with FIIO E07K(DAC)+FIIO E09K(AMP)...
I am sure I connected everything OK and I use good quality RCA cables.
The source is my PC with Foobar2000 + flacs.
I mean Little DOT MK V amps the sound but I dont think adds quality, just volume booster... I even believe the sound is better if I use only Fiio E18 as DAC+AMP... 
Should I go back to FiiO E09K ? And a second question: As FiiO E07K can connect directly into E09K it is better the combo E07K+E09K than FIIO E18+E09K ?

Can you please advise me on this ?

Thx

Edited by florin5000 - Today at 3:50 am View History


----------



## CMaas73

Does anybody know for certain if the E17 will work as a DAC with a Samsung S4 (US Cellular)?   And if so, does anybody know where I can get a short OTG cable to connect said phone? ...maybe a link too?   I am planning on getting the E17 even if it will not work as a DAC but would be nice if it would.  
      I'm also thinking I will go ahead and get the E9 at the same time.   I have been using the E6 for a long time now and if they (FIIO) can make a $30 amp sound like it does, I can only imagine how the E17 will do.


----------



## TrollDragon

I think the E17 draws too much power, but best to check in the Android USB DAC thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs


----------



## thug behram

where can i buy Fiio L7 Line Out in Canada? Can't find it anywhere... or is there another way of only using the DAC?


----------



## imeem

thug behram said:


> where can i buy Fiio L7 Line Out in Canada? Can't find it anywhere... or is there another way of only using the DAC?


 
 ebay. That's where i got mine and u can confirm if it's legit or not using the code.


----------



## TrollDragon

Yeah the HeaphoneBar in Vancouver used to sell them but not any more... It would be a good add on if you have an order at B&H, but too much on its own.


----------



## thug behram

imeem said:


> ebay. That's where i got mine and u can confirm if it's legit or not using the code.


 
 Can you show me listing? I could only find one and they wouldn't ship it.
  


trolldragon said:


> Yeah the HeaphoneBar in Vancouver used to sell them but not any more... It would be a good add on if you have an order at B&H, but too much on its own.


 
 I just bought an o2 to use with my e17, I may as well get it from there or sonic eletronix as there is no other choice.


----------



## TrollDragon

I'd give the HeadphoneBar a call to see if they had one kicking around they would sell you, a lot of their shipping is free.

I say call as they are not to prompt on answering emails.


----------



## imeem

thug behram said:


> Can you show me listing? I could only find one and they wouldn't ship it.
> 
> I just bought an o2 to use with my e17, I may as well get it from there or sonic eletronix as there is no other choice.


 
 i think i got it from them last year: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BRAND-NEW-FiiO-L7-Dock-Kit-for-E7-Interface-for-USB-DAC-Features-and-Charging-/301205206168?pt=US_Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item46213ab498&_uhb=1#shpCntId
  
 for me, total cost including shipping was less than $20


----------



## thug behram

imeem said:


> i think i got it from them last year: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BRAND-NEW-FiiO-L7-Dock-Kit-for-E7-Interface-for-USB-DAC-Features-and-Charging-/301205206168?pt=US_Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item46213ab498&_uhb=1#shpCntId
> 
> for me, total cost including shipping was less than $20




I asked em they said no! But on their site I can order it. Comes out to $30.


----------



## imeem

thug behram said:


> I asked em they said no! But on their site I can order it. Comes out to $30.


 
 wow. Loss profit for them then lol, but ya don't buy it, it's not worth $30. When they shipped it to me, they shipped it in a box that was at least 10x the size of the L7 and it was filled with balls of foam for protection.


----------



## thug behram

imeem said:


> wow. Loss profit for them then lol, but ya don't buy it, it's not worth $30. When they shipped it to me, they shipped it in a box that was at least 10x the size of the L7 and it was filled with balls of foam for protection.




I found a couple below $30 but they'll take longer.


Lol what do you mean its not worth it? Was it worth it for you?

For me its either buy the L7 or buy a new DAC to use with my O2.


----------



## TrollDragon

B&H will ship you one for around $25 Purolator right to your door with no hidden charges.


----------



## imeem

thug behram said:


> I found a couple below $30 but they'll take longer.
> 
> 
> Lol what do you mean its not worth it? Was it worth it for you?
> ...


 
  
 yes, but not $30 IMO.


----------



## thug behram

trolldragon said:


> B&H will ship you one for around $25 Purolator right to your door with no hidden charges.




Yeah I was gonna order it but they are out of stock and will get stock in 7-14 days. Getting it from sonic is just $6 more and they ship out asap.


----------



## thug behram

BTW what is the consensus of the DAC portion on this?


----------



## thug behram

bought the L7 from sound professionals - $16 shipped.


----------



## TrollDragon

thug behram said:


> bought the L7 from sound professionals - $16 shipped.


Nice!
It looks like Sound Professionals has decent shipping rates!


----------



## TrollDragon

thug behram said:


> BTW what is the consensus of the DAC portion on this?


I find it very good, I have not really compared it to any other DAC other than the Burson Conductor SL, which is not a fair comparision. I might try the E17 vs X3 DAC and see how they compare but the differences in DAC's I'd not as prominent as headphones or amps to my ears.


----------



## ZMan2k2

Is there a cable that allows me to connect the output from my iPod Classic 7th Gen and goes into the USB of the amp, so that I can use the internal DAC?  I've tried searching so many things on Google, but I haven't had much luck.


----------



## TrollDragon

No the E17 wil not work as a DAC for any iPod as it does not have the Apple authentication chip.

Your best to get a FiiO L9 LOD and use it that way.


----------



## ZMan2k2

Okay, thanks.  I guess that's why I couldn't find one.  I have the L9, so I'll just continue to rock it that way.


----------



## samta

Does the Fiio E17/E09k combo work fine with 250ohm DT880/DT990 for symphony?
 Can I use 250ohm DT880/DT990 on IPC with E17 only when I am outside?


----------



## CannonCollector

how to use this with an android phone like the samsung galaxy ones ? I know people have asked this before but I can't seem to find a definite answer, I know I need an OTG cable, which I already have btw but what do I need more?


----------



## TrollDragon

The Android USB DAC thread is probably the best place to get that answered. It's a big thread so probably the later posts cover the E17 or you can search in that thread specifically.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs


----------



## CannonCollector

trolldragon said:


> The Android USB DAC thread is probably the best place to get that answered. It's a big thread so probably the later posts cover the E17 or you can search in that thread specifically.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs


 
 Thanks I'll take a look at it


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

The discharge of the battery seems pretty bad as I charged it a week ago. And now after powering it on maybe 10% is left.


----------



## SpiderNhan

I randomly forget to engage the Hold switch when I'm carrying it around all day and the battery will drain if it's accidentally turned on. The power button would be better if they had used a similar sliding mechanism to the Hold switch.


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

With the unit turned off completely and after a week if I power it on, the battery indicator is really low to bare minimum. 
Maybe the unit I bought was old stock, since it was completely dead when I received it or the battery is not that great.


----------



## gohanssjn

After 2 years mine is just starting to get the lose headphone jack problem  is this an easy fix?


----------



## nephilim32

Ok. Just one complaint. It's a bit buggy (FIIO e 17) with the hold button. Sometimes when I'm in or using the AUX imput and push the 'hold feature' on it switches the input selection to USB. It's weird. At first I thought I was accidently hitting the input switch while hitting the hold button, but this is not the case. It's a bit buggy, but not a big deal. Still works very well after 9 months I've had it.


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

Anybody opened this and installed a better battery? I'm not happy with it, since it's completely dead from the last time I used it, which was a week ago.
 I love the UI, and the optical is abig plus but I cant complain for the price.
  
 Only if I could put a better battery inside


----------



## TrollDragon

Have you contacted the seller or FiiO about the battery issue? One or the other should replace it for you.


----------



## Stanfoo

Did I F up my hearing? I use this on +12 gain and 60 volume (highest on everything) and now I want it to be louder lol.


----------



## LeoTheAwesome

Hi guys!
  
 I know that the E07K can be used as a iPod DAC (even tho its not advertised). I was wondering if the E17 can also work as a iPod DAC but its just not common knowledge. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Stanfoo

How r u supposed to toggle the Lo Bypass "switch" on the side?
  
 There is no switch. U cant do anything...


----------



## ClieOS

stanfoo said:


> How r u supposed to toggle the Lo Bypass "switch" on the side?
> 
> There is no switch. U cant do anything...


 
  
 Use a pointy object?
  
 It is designed as such so you can't accidentally change it, or else the sudden jump of volume can deafen the listener.


----------



## LeoTheAwesome

stanfoo said:


> How r u supposed to toggle the Lo Bypass "switch" on the side?
> 
> There is no switch. U cant do anything...


 
 Use a pen, pencil, knife, tooth pick...
  
 Use your imagination man!!
  
 THE SKY IS THE LIMIT!!


----------



## nephilim32

clieos said:


> Use a pointy object?
> 
> It is designed as such so you can't accidentally change it, or else the sudden jump of volume can deafen the listener.




Just use a toothpick even. That'll work.


----------



## Shogster

Im about to order the E17 i just have some questions before i do that.
 I recently bought the ATH-M50x and been using it with my PC.Sound is great,but i need a little bit of power,and im sure the SQ will be better with the E17.
  
 Now,do i have to install the ASIO E17 driver?
 I use the AIMP3 player,and in the settings it says that it uses WASAPI.I also have ASIO4ALL installed but it is not set on that.Is it needed for the E17 to work properly with my PC?
 Also,i plan to get the E09k when i have the cash.I just want the whole package,but how much will i benefit from using the 09k aswell.I do not plan to use the E17 on the go,though i have a rockboxed Sansa Fuze,so i will try it,and if it works well i may just take it with me sometime.
 And lastly,since i will have the E17 connected all the time,is this going to be a problem for the battery.
 When using the E17 with the USB and set as my default audio device,do i use the DAC only or the amp works too?


----------



## SpiderNhan

shogster said:


> Im about to order the E17 i just have some questions before i do that.
> I recently bought the ATH-M50x and been using it with my PC.Sound is great,but i need a little bit of power,and im sure the SQ will be better with the E17.
> 
> Now,do i have to install the ASIO E17 driver?
> ...


 
 I use WASAPI with my E17 since ASIO doesn't always play nice with my software. I don't have any experience with AIMP3, but WASAPI works betters with both foobar2000 and JRiver Media Center.
  
 The battery of the E17 will continue to drain, even when docked onto an E09K. It takes a few days to drain with heavy usage, so you can just turn USB charging on when it's low, leave it overnight and it'll be full the next day. FiiO recommends that you DO NOT charge the E17 while its in use as that can shorten battery life.
  
 As for your last question, the E17, when connected via USB with headphones plugged directly into it, you'll be using the E17's DAC and amp.
 Docked on the E09K, you're using the E17's DAC, but the E09K's amp.
 Paired with the Sansa Fuze, you'll be using the Fuze's DAC and the E17's amp.


----------



## CooterK

shogster said:


> Im about to order the E17 i just have some questions before i do that.
> I recently bought the ATH-M50x and been using it with my PC.Sound is great,but i need a little bit of power,and im sure the SQ will be better with the E17.
> 
> Now,do i have to install the ASIO E17 driver?
> ...


 

 I spent all day playing with settings/volumes/usb drivers etc. trying to get rid of a pretty bad "crackle" sound while playing any source of music with my e17/e09k setup, and finally found the ASIO driver and it completely solved the entire issue.


----------



## drgazza

Hello everyone,
 some of you would know advise me how I can better connect to the lumia930 with the FiiO E17?
  
 Do you think that is possible?
 Those of you who did it?
  
 Thank's in advance


----------



## imeem

am i the only one that get interference with the E17 if i were to place a cellphone near it or the headphone wires? Enabling airplane mode helps decrease the chance, but it doesn't get rid of it completely


----------



## Andreeas1978

Strange! Most of the times I use it with my phone, keep them both in the small bag, even with the wires wrapped around when I don't need all the length. Never had interference, not even when receiving calls..


----------



## Hiltonk

The E17 works properly with the iPhone 6+ and a passive hub with camera connection kit! With my 5s I got clicking and static noise in the background and this noise no longer exists on the 6+ 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hiltonk

The portable FiiO E17 DAC/Amp setup with iPhone 6+ and JRemote (playing back from MC20 on HTPC)

  
  

  

 24bit 96K playback through JRemote

  
  
 The desktop setup I use at work and at my PC with the E09K/E17 DAC/Amp.
  
  

  
  
 5S vs 6+ (The 5S feels like a toy now after having the 6+ for a few days.)


----------



## vipervick

Not Metal music, argument invalid...


----------



## TrollDragon

vipervick said:


> Not Metal music, argument invalid...


??? Wrong thread...


----------



## vipervick

trolldragon said:


> ??? Wrong thread...


 
 Look at the artist on the screen... Sarcasm level: Master.


----------



## TrollDragon

vipervick said:


> Look at the artist on the screen... Sarcasm level: Master.


LOL... Was to early for me.


----------



## pennylane

Quick question... how easy is it to adjust left/right balance on the E17?  Is convenient enough that it's not a hassle if you feel like you have to adjust the balance fairly frequently?  ie, everytime you change albums, for example?


----------



## TrollDragon

Just select it from the menu and change it, 3 or 4 button clicks.

You do this why???


----------



## pennylane

trolldragon said:


> Just select it from the menu and change it, 3 or 4 button clicks.
> 
> You do this why???


 
  
 My hearing is ever so slightly worse with right ear, like 1-2 dB but it seems to vary with frequency somewhat.  Then I have allergies that screw up my sinuses and that messes up left/right hearing balance as well (iono if it's sinuses, like how hearing goes weird when ascending/descending in airplanes, but doesn't affect both ears equally).  Basically, everytime I sneeze/blow nose/swallow, my left/right hearing balance may get tweaked.  The 2 issues kinda feed into each other and exacerbate my obsession with getting vocals or whatever properly centered.


----------



## TrollDragon

Wow.
 Sorry to hear that, I feel for you not being able to just hit play and enjoy.
  
 The balance would be easy enough to adjust on an album basis, per song it would get a little annoying though.


----------



## Hiltonk

Just to clarify how the menu works. Once you've selected and changed balance in the menu it will go back to volume after 10secs, but it's only 2 menu clicks to go back into balance so it's pretty quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hiltonk

vipervick said:


> Not Metal music, argument invalid...




Don't worry I have plenty of metal too. There's just not much metal in hi-res audio to test 96/24 playback.  only have 3 or 4 hi-res metal albums. Joe satch, Uriah Heap, Stained and maybe one more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## akewl

Would you recommend this amp for AK120? 
  
 Is it safe to assume that i won't be messing the SQ as i'll be using the E17 for amp only? 
  
 Ak120 headphone out -> Fiio E17 AUX -> Fiio E17 headphone out -> beyer DT1350


----------



## Hiltonk

Search is your friend.  The E17 has a wonderful sound and is a good match for many fones.
 For it to be compared to AMPs more than 4 times more expensive should give you some indication just how good it is. 
 (The quality is not at all questionable, it just delivers simply amazing quality for a price that seems unbelievable)
  


samarth1 said:


> The Fiio E17 pairs fantastically well with the DT1350. I received mine last week and couldn't be happier. Having access to adjusting bass, mids, and treble right on the E17 is a godsend, and this fantastic portable gets even better when paired.


 
  


vladguardian said:


> OMG people, I can't believe my eyes... the LARGEST audiophile forum in the WORLD, and no single meaningful answer for 3 months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## llivzz

In Windows, I have the sound format set to 48kHz 24bit. On the E17, I see 48kHz 16bit displayed. Does the E17 convert the 24bit input to 16bit, or is the 16bit display incorrect? I understand that 44.1 and 48k share the same "48k" display on the E17, but was wondering if this is the same with the bit depth. 
  
 In the manual, it says "default value is 24bit when sampling rate is 96k and 192k, others are 16bit". I also found this chart, which doesn't even show 48kHz 24bit as an option: http://fiio.com.cn/UploadFiles/main/Images/2012/12/20121219103419.jpg


----------



## pennylane

hiltonk said:


> Just to clarify how the menu works. Once you've selected and changed balance in the menu it will go back to volume after 10secs, but it's only 2 menu clicks to go back into balance so it's pretty quick.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 


trolldragon said:


> Wow.
> Sorry to hear that, I feel for you not being able to just hit play and enjoy.
> 
> The balance would be easy enough to adjust on an album basis, per song it would get a little annoying though.


 
  
 Thanks again for the replies.  I ended up jumping in and am quite happy.  It sounds great and 2 clicks to adjust balance is actually super convenient, probably as convenient as I could reasonably expect.  One more question... it seems that the balance (as well as the treble and the bass) adjusts in increments of 2.  Is that how it's supposed to be?  Any way to change that to 1?  If not, seems like there's no point in the menu saying 2 when it can just as easily say 1 and have the total range be -5 to +5.


----------



## TrollDragon

pennylane said:


> Thanks again for the replies.  I ended up jumping in and am quite happy.  It sounds great and 2 clicks to adjust balance is actually super convenient, probably as convenient as I could reasonably expect.  One more question... it seems that the balance (as well as the treble and the bass) adjusts in increments of 2.  Is that how it's supposed to be?  Any way to change that to 1?  If not, seems like there's no point in the menu saying 2 when it can just as easily say 1 and have the total range be -5 to +5.


 
 Congrats and welcome to the club!
  
 Glad you find it easy to adjust the balance, unfortunately we are stuck with a 2 step jump on the E17, there is no way to change it to 1.
  
 It's just part of the magic that is FiiO, great sound but very obscure functionality and UI's on most all of their products.


----------



## bracklefish

Just out of curiosity why would someone rig their E17 to an E09K?
  
 A need for more power? A bigger volume knob? I already find the E17 pretty sweet for desktop use.


----------



## TrollDragon

bracklefish said:


> Just out of curiosity why would someone rig their E17 to an E09K?
> 
> A need for more power? A bigger volume knob? I already find the E17 pretty sweet for desktop use.


 

 Because it is a lot more convenient as I use the E17/E09K as a Line Out for my tubes. The E09K has the most In/Out options in it's price range, drives the DT880 Pro's better than the E17 can and with a lot more headroom.


----------



## bracklefish

Huh cool. The Fiio e17 is pretty sweet for a portable rig too. I've been running my ATH-900x's through my Fiio e17 from my CM Nexus 5 via usb.


----------



## seppy50

Hello guys, I bought the e17 almost over a year ago and I never found the time to look into it until now; my problem is with my akg 550 it produces some faint static noises and I don't know what it means. I'm on 0 db gain and I'm hoping that I'm not ruining my headphones. Anyone have this problem?


----------



## Allucid

seppy50 said:


> Hello guys, I bought the e17 almost over a year ago and I never found the time to look into it until now; my problem is with my akg 550 it produces some faint static noises and I don't know what it means. I'm on 0 db gain and I'm hoping that I'm not ruining my headphones. Anyone have this problem?



It means your AKG's are really sensitive. Not much you can do.


----------



## seppy50

allucid said:


> It means your AKG's are really sensitive. Not much you can do.




Am I ruining my headphones by using the e17?


----------



## Allucid

seppy50 said:


> allucid said:
> 
> 
> > It means your AKG's are really sensitive. Not much you can do.
> ...



Not at all, it just means that your AKG's don't need an amp, the more power coming from a source, the more noise or static.


----------



## pennylane

Has anyone experimented with the different gain settings?  Is there a recommended one?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Allucid

pennylane said:


> Has anyone experimented with the different gain settings?  Is there a recommended one?
> 
> Thanks



6 gain is recommended, but 12 gain is used for headphones that need more power due to not being loud enough.


----------



## pennylane

Thanks.  Are the different gain settings just a change in power drain mostly?


allucid said:


> 6 gain is recommended, but 12 gain is used for headphones that need more power due to not being loud enough.


----------



## TrollDragon

pennylane said:


> Thanks.  Are the different gain settings just a change in power drain mostly?


 
 They alter the input gain on the amplifier.
  
 Input Sensitivity for 0/6/12dB = 2.25V/1.125V/565mV


----------



## Allucid

pennylane said:


> Thanks.  Are the different gain settings just a change in power drain mostly?
> 
> 
> allucid said:
> ...



Depends. If you run a line out on the source to the amp, it'll take a bit off the battery since it's outputting more power, but not too much.


----------



## mindbomb

12 db seems like it would cause clipping if you're using the e17 as both a dac and an amp. I think it is meant for use with an ipod's line out. It's 1.25v rms for 0db, and 2.5v for 6db, and the device has a maximum output of 2.5v, so you can't really use the +12db usually.
  
 Also, let's talk about the display. I've read that the dac can only specify 3 sample rates - 44.1/48khz, 88/96khz, 176khz/192khz. However the display also reports bit depth, which it has no way of knowing...why?


----------



## Happytalk

So I've got one of these. And there is distortion both when used as an amp and as a DAC/amp. Is this a common problem? I may be doing something wrong but I don't think so.


----------



## CybDev

Depends on what kind and at what levels we are talking... you may have some noise issues from the usual suspects (poor ground etc..) that is not really the E17's fault.

But yeah, it's not exactly silent, there is an audible noise floor, and while it is better than what you find in cheap cellphones and a lot of laptops, I wouldn't say it's that great.


----------



## Happytalk

Figured it out. MacBook Pro iTunes sampling issue was the problem. Still would like to use iTunes but when just playing the file, optical and USB out don't have distortion. It was just a matter of finding the audio midi setup and adjusting the format. iTunes is still tricky though. But playing files directly (from the desktop) works fine.


----------



## Mangudai

Has anyone here been able to compare these to a Schiit Magni+Modi combo?


----------



## TrollDragon

mangudai said:


> Has anyone here been able to compare these to a Schiit Magni+Modi combo?


 

 Portable vs Desktop.


----------



## Mangudai

trolldragon said:


> Portable vs Desktop.


 
  
  
 True you're right, im still curious though. The E17 is my only frame of reference when it comes to a dac/amp.


----------



## YedPed

Does anyone have any idea whether this model will be preceded by another model in the near future?


----------



## Jakkal

yedped said:


> Does anyone have any idea whether this model will be preceded by another model in the near future?




Yes, they are working on E17K and E09S now, but still no info when they'll be out.


----------



## Ultrainferno

jakkal said:


> Yes, they are working on E17K and E09S now, but still no info when they'll be out.


 
  
 Soon? Picture below is from Headfonia, they have it already


----------



## Jakkal

Yay, nice find! Since they have it already, I guess it's coming soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Edit: I just saw that there is E09S design concept.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/740441/the-concept-design-drawing-of-fiio-new-docking-amp-e09s-how-do-you-like-it


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

That volume knob killed it for me. Not fond of portable players and amps that design it to the sides unless it's a recorder. Will be keeping my loyal E17.





ultrainferno said:


> Soon? Picture below is from Headfonia, they have it already


----------



## Mangudai

Any info on what's suppose to be improved?


----------



## Buckster

does the E17 support 48 24 ?
  
 just when connected to my PC - if I set 96 24 via USB I get 96 24 written on the Fiio
  
 but if I set 48 24 or 44 24 - the Fiio says 48 16 and 44 16
  
 any ideas please ?


----------



## Buckster

please ignore - just found answer in a search in this thread - apparently its as the display will never say 48/24 even though it actually is - weird


----------



## YamaVega

I once tried to attach my E17 to a Redmi 1S via USB OTG.  Sound was bad from the E17, like listening to an empty can.  It was too bad coz I thought via USB OTG, the sound would bypass the phone's DAC/AMP and using the E17 instead making the sound better.  Whats wrong here?  Are there other android phones that make the E17 sound better via USB OTG?


----------



## Muffin860

Has anyone used an E17 with an audio mixer? I use a small mixing board (Berhinger 602a) to create some sidetone from my microphone to my headphones while gaming. I bought the E17 to use as a desktop dac/poratable amp.
  
 My idea is to go PC>E17>602a>598/650
  
 Or do I need an E7 to create a line out for the board? So it might be PC>E17+E7>602a>598/650.

 I'm just worried about sending an amped signal to the board. I know I could put the E17 after the board in the signal chain, but then I lose the benefit of using it as a DAC which is half the reason I bought it.

 The E17 hasn't arrived yet, and I have been googling like crazy trying to figure this out but have been coming up empty.


----------



## audiot3k

Quick question: I am currently connected via SPDIF Optical to my desktop PC. Generally is there a difference between using this type of connection compared to the coaxial connector? And both of these are definitely better than the USB right?
  
 I have to admit, I am asking because when I first was using this with USB (2-3 days) then received my amazon SPDIF optical..I don't hear much of a difference.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Jakkal

audiot3k said:


> Quick question: I am currently connected via SPDIF Optical to my desktop PC. Generally is there a difference between using this type of connection compared to the coaxial connector? And both of these are definitely better than the USB right?
> 
> I have to admit, I am asking because when I first was using this with USB (2-3 days) then received my amazon SPDIF optical..I don't hear much of a difference.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 It all depends on the implementation. As far as I know if all implemented correctly, there should be no sound difference between them.


----------



## Andreeas1978

I have built myself strong gaming PC with lots of fans and power consumption. 
 I used to connect it to my E17 both ways and I could hear no difference. A few months ago I have bought the Sennheiser HD800 and to properly feed them I have also bought an M-Stage headphone amplifier. Since then I only use the optical connection which is dead silent at max volume (of M-Stage). With the coaxial I hear all the PC noises like fans, even mouse movement makes a faint static noise. Of corse, only on max volume which is way to strong (no sound playing of corse) and would instantly blow the headset and my ears (and brains out). 
 Chasing "perfection", I don't use the coax from my computer with E17 anymore. 
 On my Yamaha amplituner the coax from PC plays a little louder than the optical actually, with no interferences. But with more sensitive tools I think the metal connection also brings electrostatics from noisy sources like a power hungry PC. Might not be the case with other sources though, or if you don't test insane volume levels.
PC --- E17 as DAC only, no amp -- LINE OUT with the little adapter --- AMP(M-Stage) --- Headphones.
The noise is obvious at 70 to 100 % volume, and for comfortable listening I cannot go more than 40% volume.
 Before this setup I used to read a lot of which connection might be better, with no satisfying answer in the end, some say one way, some the other. I am not saying myself one is better than the other because I don't really know.
I thought coax might be better because I've read somewhere it is the most direct link, optical connection uses some kind of processing of the signal or smth, but in my setup the difference is clear and I have to use the optical.
 Maybe more experienced friends here might give us some explanation of those facts as I have absolutely no electronics background, though I love them like crazy and cannot live without them 
 I know the PC might be the worst source we can use for HiFi music, but it's so practical.
 With other setups I can hear absolutely no differences in SQ regarding coax vs optical, neither with IEM nore with big cans. 
Play with your setup and see what works best for you.


----------



## Andreeas1978

Yes, they are both better than USB, which also brings noise in my setup, but first of all, USB on E17 cannot play 96 or 192 kHz tracks as I remember from the manual. I think it down samples all to 48khz if I remember well, which is not bad at all, we cannot tell the difference, but why settle for less when you have more, up to 192 on both coax and optical. 
I get static noise (very faint but existing) from USB even if I only use it to charge the battery while playing from other input.
I repeat, all this noise I am talking about is only noticed with the M-Stage on max volume, way beyond normal use.
I have the E17 for maybe 3 years now, I tried everything that crossed my mind with it and I am very pleased. I wanted to buy the docking station for it, E09 I think it's called, but unfortunately the Sennheiser required even more power so I had to pass, though they would play and look so nice together.
You know what I love most with it?! That simple EQ that is amazing to me, it feels like it adds power to the frequency, unlike others that seems to take a little from the rest of the freq range to give a feeling that the one you want is emphasized.


----------



## howdy

andreeas1978 said:


> Yes, they are both better than USB, which also brings noise in my setup, but first of all, USB on E17 cannot play 96 or 192 kHz tracks as I remember from the manual. I think it down samples all to 48khz if I remember well, which is not bad at all, we cannot tell the difference, but why settle for less when you have more, up to 192 on both coax and optical.
> 
> I get static noise (very faint but existing) from USB even if I only use it to charge the battery while playing from other input.
> 
> ...



 


the new E17k can if FiiO ever starts a new thread promoting there new stuff. Come on someone start something for this new endeavor.


----------



## AUserName501

Link to the E17k thread.
  
 It would be a good idea to keep discusion of the E17k in the E17k thread so information is easier to find for others.


----------



## howdy

ausername501 said:


> Link to the E17k thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Good job on starting one!


----------



## St4rchild

E10K Olympus or E17? I deciding between this two dac/amp, I need some good quality dac/amp for my DT770 Pro 250 Ohm. Which would be better for that? Is the E17 worth the double price of E10K or it is would be enaugh for that?


----------



## YamaVega

st4rchild said:


> E10K Olympus or E17? I deciding between this two dac/amp, I need some good quality dac/amp for my DT770 Pro 250 Ohm. Which would be better for that? Is the E17 worth the double price of E10K or it is would be enaugh for that?


 
  
 I had the same dilemma, but since I also needed a portable AMP for my phone, then a used E17 for $100 is my way to go


----------



## cadamwil

audiot3k said:


> Quick question: I am currently connected via SPDIF Optical to my desktop PC. Generally is there a difference between using this type of connection compared to the coaxial connector? And both of these are definitely better than the USB right?
> 
> I have to admit, I am asking because when I first was using this with USB (2-3 days) then received my amazon SPDIF optical..I don't hear much of a difference.
> 
> Thanks!



I think USB is the best as the E17 becomes the sound card, where hooking up via optical or coax means something inside the pc is the sound card. In general, the e17 will do a higher sampling rate than most PC sound cards. But it is possible that the difference would be essentially non-existent.


----------



## HyroProto

The M50 sounds grand with the E17.Wow! Love the pairing. It's like the E17 brings out the best in the M50. Love it


----------



## pennylane

Is there a consensus on the quality of the bass/treble controls on the E17?
  
 Also, does anybody _intentionally_ double-amp?  I've posted in this thread before, but I've been using the E17 as a sort of DAC, but I'm using its amp because it has convenient adjustments for L/R balanc (basically, I get congested a lot and constantly have to fiddle with L/R balance or I go nuts).  When hooking up the E17 to another amp, does anyone have any recommendations on volume level and gain level?  Right now I'm using max volume and 0 dB gain.
  
 Thanks


----------



## leogodoy

cadamwil said:


> I think USB is the best as the E17 becomes the sound card, where hooking up via optical or coax means something inside the pc is the sound card. In general, the e17 will do a higher sampling rate than most PC sound cards. But it is possible that the difference would be essentially non-existent.




Is this correct? I think optical also makes your DAC the "sound card", bypassing the one on the computer.


----------



## ClieOS

Optical, coax, and USB are all digital connectioin that will bypass your PC internal sound card.


----------



## eric5469

I have a x1 paired with an e17 and some momentums. Would I be better off soundwise with an e12 or stick with the e17?  Should I go with the better dac in the e17 or better amp in the e12?


----------



## Stevierg

clieos said:


> Optical, coax, and USB are all digital connectioin that will bypass your PC internal sound card.


 
 That is not true. Using all three will make the E17 the dac. However, the optical port and coax can still be affected by the sound card.
 For example some sounds cards will still do processing on the audio before it sends it out via optical or coax.
  
 Ideally it would be best to use usb if you had a choice.


----------



## ClieOS

stevierg said:


> That is not true. Using all three will make the E17 the dac. However, the optical port and coax can still be affected by the sound card.
> For example some sounds cards will still do processing on the audio before it sends it out via optical or coax.
> 
> Ideally it would be best to use usb if you had a choice.


 
  
 Well, software enhancement of that sort is mostly handled by the CPU this days, since most soundcard actually doesn't have dedicated hardware DSP / audio processor (unless it is the good, expensive one, which makes using E17 a moot point but that's another story). Regardless, they can almost always be disable in setting.


----------



## SolidMusic

stevierg said:


> That is not true. Using all three will make the E17 the dac. However, the optical port and coax can still be affected by the sound card.
> For example some sounds cards will still do processing on the audio before it sends it out via optical or coax.
> 
> Ideally it would be best to use usb if you had a choice.




Yes, my Asus DX do that if i want.


----------



## Stevierg

clieos said:


> Well, software enhancement of that sort is mostly handled by the CPU this days, since most soundcard actually doesn't have dedicated hardware DSP / audio processor (unless it is the good, expensive one, which makes using E17 a moot point but that's another story). Regardless, they can almost always be disable in setting.


 
 Sure, but how many motherboards come with optical out or even coax? Most likely you are using something like an Asus card or a Soundblaster card that has hardware processing and effects. The point is, any of those adjustments affect the audio before it gets sent to the E17. Connecting the E17 direct with USB pretty much bypass all of those, plus it gives you the added benefit of charging while using.
  
 If anyone has better sound quality over coax or optical vs USB I would be amazed to find.


----------



## ClieOS

stevierg said:


> Sure, but how many motherboards come with optical out or even coax? Most likely you are using something like an Asus card or a Soundblaster card that has hardware processing and effects. The point is, any of those adjustments affect the audio before it gets sent to the E17. Connecting the E17 direct with USB pretty much bypass all of those, plus it gives you the added benefit of charging while using.
> 
> If anyone has better sound quality over coax or optical vs USB I would be amazed to find.


 
  
 I am not saying coax or optical offer better SQ over USB. I would have preferred USB myself. However, with the correct setting by a competent PC user, bypassing any 'extra' processing isn't that difficult and certainly is achievable. I mean, how difficult it is to fire up the sound driver control panel and untick all the settings, right?
  
 I must confess that I haven't built a PC for awhile, but I do think many motherboard these days do come with S/PDIF output built-in, or at least I will expect any motherboard that is mid range and above should have one. 
  
 Talking about ASUS and Creative's sound card - actually I do have both on my PC now, and yes, setting can be disabled as needed. A lot of these 'sound effect' are software based as well, and you can just as well use a playback software that supports such effect and it will have more or less similar effect on E17 over USB. It is less so an issue on which source the effect comes from, but more on how to setup correctly so you are not getting what you don't want, I think.


----------



## SolariS

Has there been a firmware update which adds auto screen timeout to the E17? It's been about a year and I try to utilize the Hold feature whenever possible but I still have burn-in in the middle when I scroll the settings. It makes it hard to read that whole middle line without adjusting your viewing angle and simply looks bad; I tried taking pictures of it but they don't come out clear. It just gets cumbersome when you regularly need to change the volume etc. when another step of toggling the Hold is involved. Nevertheless, I think that an easy firmware update that adds screen timeout would have greatly increased the convenience and value of using this device. The sleep timer already has a timer involved so its not like its not there already, combine that with the Hold outcome and voila?


----------



## itsDanny

Does any one know if the DAC in the ZxR is better than the one in the E17? I have both (ZxR for a present), but they both sound incredibly similar (an untrained ear I suppose) and do not know which to give away.


----------



## zachary80

I'm having problems with docking my E17 in my E09k. Lately there has been a significant channel imbalance, with the right barely because audible and coming through crackling when it does work. I've tried different USB ports, uninstalling/rebooting/reinstalling drivers, different headphones, and using the E17 on its own (works fine). I plan on trying the amp with the RCA inputs and also without the E17 but I haven't been able to test it like that yet.
  
 Has anyone seen this issue before?


----------



## SpiderNhan

zachary80
I had a similar problem my E17 and E9. No channel imbalance, but I did get crackling when using the combo via USB. I got an optical cable and that fixed the crackling but it was too much hassle and I eventually gave up on docking them and got rid of the E17. I still use the E9 fed through RCA cables from an Aune T1.


----------



## The red hope

Anyone else have the display on the E17 die completely? Still fully functional just without the display.


----------



## SolariS

the red hope said:


> Anyone else have the display on the E17 die completely? Still fully functional just without the display.


 
  
 This is exactly the reason why I bought a 3 year warranty on mine because my Fiio E5's headphone connection got loose in under a year making it useless. In regards to the E17, like I said a few posts above, why even have a firmware version display and default menu option if none was ever to be released? FiiO supposedly mentioned that the E17 firmware isn't user upgradable and that only the ASIO drivers are available for download. Your issue could have potentially been avoided by a simple screen timeout menu option. My screen burn-in would have absolutely been avoided and I know I'm not the only one to have this happen. As it stands, it seems like they release a product and completely abandon it in terms of support and upgrades to move onto the next newer one.
  
 Edit: Link added, no firmware update ever released: http://www.fiio.net/en/supports/26


----------



## SolidMusic

the red hope said:


> Anyone else have the display on the E17 die completely? Still fully functional just without the display.



Sorry, if you put on hold position the display is off!!! See if there are a problem with a switch.


----------



## RedJohn456

I picked up a second hand Fiio E17 from an authorized dealer and had a question. Online in pictures the back of the E17 says E17 while my one says Just Alpen in big letters and in smaller letters "headphone amp and dac." As well is the optical input jack supposed to be pink? My one is black. My unit has static and some channel imbalance. Any fix for those?


----------



## SolariS

solaris said:


> Has there been a firmware update which adds auto screen timeout to the E17? It's been about a year and I try to utilize the Hold feature whenever possible but I still have burn-in in the middle when I scroll the settings. It makes it hard to read that whole middle line without adjusting your viewing angle and simply looks bad; I tried taking pictures of it but they don't come out clear. It just gets cumbersome when you regularly need to change the volume etc. when another step of toggling the Hold is involved. Nevertheless, I think that an easy firmware update that adds screen timeout would have greatly increased the convenience and value of using this device. The sleep timer already has a timer involved so its not like its not there already, combine that with the Hold outcome and voila?


 
  


solaris said:


> This is exactly the reason why I bought a 3 year warranty on mine because my Fiio E5's headphone connection got loose in under a year making it useless. In regards to the E17, like I said a few posts above, why even have a firmware version display and default menu option if none was ever to be released? FiiO supposedly mentioned that the E17 firmware isn't user upgradable and that only the ASIO drivers are available for download. Your issue could have potentially been avoided by a simple screen timeout menu option. My screen burn-in would have absolutely been avoided and I know I'm not the only one to have this happen. As it stands, it seems like they release a product and completely abandon it in terms of support and upgrades to move onto the next newer one.
> 
> Edit: Link added, no firmware update ever released: http://www.fiio.net/en/supports/26


 
 Nobody huh? Nobody from FiiO, James or otherwise. So I hit the nail right on the head but was expecting at least one other member to back me up.


----------



## SolidMusic

redjohn456 said:


> I picked up a second hand Fiio E17 from an authorized dealer and had a question. Online in pictures the back of the E17 says E17 while my one says Just Alpen in big letters and in smaller letters "headphone amp and dac." As well is the optical input jack supposed to be pink? My one is black. My unit has static and some channel imbalance. Any fix for those?




Hi is like yours( i think)


And work fine, although occasionally hear static "crackling"


----------



## SpiderNhan

The crackling could be from wi-fi or cellular interference. The E17 isn't shielded well from electronic noise. Try keeping it away from your modem or phone and see if that helps.


----------



## RedJohn456

solidmusic said:


> Hi is like yours( i think)
> 
> 
> And work fine, although occasionally hear static "crackling"


 
  
 Thank you, glad to see it 
  


spidernhan said:


> The crackling could be from wi-fi or cellular interference. The E17 isn't shielded well from electronic noise. Try keeping it away from your modem or phone and see if that helps.


 
  
 That helped a bunch thank you! Do you know if the E17k is better shielded?


----------



## SpiderNhan

You're welcome! I have not used the E17K so I can't comment on it.


----------



## RedJohn456

spidernhan said:


> You're welcome! I have not used the E17K so I can't comment on it.


 

 Is it possible to use it with my phone and minimizing the interference? Any thing I can use to shield it? This is my first portable amp/dac and I am surprised how much it improves the sound of my blackberry! It makes me more interested in buying the E17k for full price down the road


----------



## SpiderNhan

You can put your phone into airplane mode when listening to music, although you won't be able to make or receive phone calls. The only other(very ugly) option would be to wrap your E17 either in EMI foil or EMI tape.


----------



## SolidMusic

spidernhan said:


> The crackling could be from wi-fi or cellular interference. The E17 isn't shielded well from electronic noise. Try keeping it away from your modem or phone and see if that helps.




Yes , I had read , I did some tests with an iPod Nano 1GB (few songs) .. and the static disappeared.
But my iphone has a lot of songs and then I still connect the E17 to iphone. I have not tested the E17K not know if has the same problem . the E11 dont have the problem because I tested it.


----------



## RedJohn456

I am in love with my Fiio E17. Best purchase by far. From my initial readings on this device I was reading that its not that good or that it has a medioce amp yadda yadda. It is making my Havi B3 Pro 1 and Brainwavz HM5 sing like they never have before! My hm5 has definitely come out to play with a more firm bottom end and better soundstage to my ears. Cant wait to use it with my ps3 and see how my favourite games sound 
  
 I also love how easy it is to use and how intuitive. Can only imagine how good the dedicated amps like e12 or e12a sound. 
  
 Is the E17k sound much better than the E17?


----------



## JGPenfield

khaine775 said:


> Guys! I've got a bit of a problem.
> 
> I just received my E17 a few days ago, and when I got my new soundcard yesterday (Creative Titanium HD) I was finally set for audio awesomeness - or so I thought.
> 
> ...


 
 Several issues to address. A soundcard and this E17 DAC are duplicates and there will be no benefit in using them together. Both convert the digital signal to an audio signal and the E9 amplifies the signal. The correct way to get the best sound is to connect the E9 to your computer using a USB cable. Flip the dock switch to dock on the E9 amp. This brings a digital signal from your computer to the E9 where it is directed to the E17 for DACing (digital to analog conversion) so you now have a very good analog signal. This analog signal is then sent back to the E9 where it is amplified and sent to your headphones and you start grooving out to superb sound.
 Your setup: You are taking a digital signal from your computer via the soundcard. That digital signal is identical to the one coming across the USB cable mentioned above. I don't know if that signal is converted to analog when the E17 is docked to the E9, but I do know it will not be sent to the E9, so plugging your headphones into E9 headphone jack will produce not sound. You might be able to hear sound in your setup by plugging your headphones into the E17, but you would not get amplification from the E9.
 So... the bad news for you. You have probably wasted money when you purchased the sound card. It does not add to the E17/E9 combo.
 There are options for you to decide which is better, the soundcard or the E17:  Setup like I recommeded above for E17/E9 sound and listen to your music.
 Now for your soundcard: Trash that optical cable. It is teasing you and not needed and is no better than the USB cable. The purpose of the soundcard is to be a DAC like the E17, not just a simple bypass for a digital signal. To test that soundcard, get a cable that splits the analog stereo plug signal into a left and right RCA analog signal and attach that to the E9 auxillary input. Flip the dock switch and now the sound you hear is coming from your soundcard and not the E17. You also have to change the sound output on your computer to either the Fiio E17 or your soundcard via the playback option on your sound program (if using Windows). Switch back and forth to decide which one sounds better, your soundcard or the E17.


----------



## saiko7

My local dealer is selling
  
  
 E17 for 103 USD
 E17K for 141 USD
 Also E07K for 88USD
  
 I think E17 at this price is great but it's pretty old model now and for me it has few issues like you have carry a not so common USB Mini cable to connect it to PC... on the other had E17K is new hardware (I like the design much more) but it might need some to iron out all the hardware issue and software bugs etc as it's launch just now.
  
 So I am confused...
  
 Which is better to buy?
 Is E17K substancially better in terms of sound quality?
  
 If I buy the older model E17 is there any implication in terms of future compatibility etc?
  
 I think at this point only for E17 I am getting a very good deal - perhaps because it's phasing out. 
 I would like to know if I should go *FiiO E17 for 103USD* or is it *worth paying 35-40 USD extra for the new E17K*?
  
 Could anyone help me to decide?


----------



## Allucid

saiko7 said:


> My local dealer is selling
> 
> 
> E17 for 103 USD
> ...



The E17 is pretty damn good. The K version I haven't tried yet.


----------



## Walderstorn

solaris said:


> Has there been a firmware update which adds auto screen timeout to the E17? It's been about a year and I try to utilize the Hold feature whenever possible but I still have burn-in in the middle when I scroll the settings. It makes it hard to read that whole middle line without adjusting your viewing angle and simply looks bad; I tried taking pictures of it but they don't come out clear. It just gets cumbersome when you regularly need to change the volume etc. when another step of toggling the Hold is involved. Nevertheless, I think that an easy firmware update that adds screen timeout would have greatly increased the convenience and value of using this device. The sleep timer already has a timer involved so its not like its not there already, combine that with the Hold outcome and voila?


 
  
 unforunately doesnt seem they care much about support, i dont have burn-in /yet, but i had to upgrade to w8 on my job computer and christ the problems im having with them both...


----------



## Autoholic

I've had my E17 for several months, and I finally purchased an E09K yesterday. My initial impression is that it makes my headphones sound more cohesive, full, and dynamic. The thing is, I found myself using the E17 more often with my smartphone (Sony Xperia Z3) than with my laptop because of the convenience, even with my high impedance HD650 and deceptively power hungry HE-400.

So I tried to set up the E17+E09K combo with my phone. I docked the E17 in lo-bypass mode to the E09K, and attempted to use it with my smartphone with the USB OTG cable. The phone acts like nothing is plugged in, and proceeds to use it's own speakers. In my ignorance and excitement, I assumed that it would work because the E09K runs off DC power, and the phone would be 'streaming' to the E17 DAC, which in turn would be amped by the E09K. 

So what now? 

The obvious answer would be to plug a 3.5mm to RCA cable from my smartphone's headphone jack to the AUX IN the E09K. Would I be using the E17's DAC this way? Or would I be double amping?

Another option before I bought the E09K was to track down a Fiio L7 Line Out Dock to utilize the DAC portion of my E17 and let an O2 or something similarly priced do the amping. I can still return the E09K. If I did this, could I then use my smartphone via USB OTG through the L7?

Or is there another way? Thanks in advance!


----------



## vipervick

Somewhere between this morning and this afternoon my E17 AUX stopped working. When I went to use it after work, the word "dock" pops on the screen and only 3 inputs are available; OPT, COX and USB. What happened?


----------



## saiko7

vipervick said:


> Somewhere between this morning and this afternoon my E17 AUX stopped working. When I went to use it after work, the work "dock" pops on the screen and only 3 inputs are available; OPT, COX and USB. What happened?


 

 Did you try resetting it. Most of the problems I had with my E17 goes away after resetting. Hope it's not a hardware related problem.


----------



## saiko7

You need to use the USB to get the digital signal to DAC. AUX wont utilize the DAC.
  
 I don't have E09K but my E17 works fine with android phones. I have tried several ones. You need some player that supports like Onkyo HF player or HiBy Music.
 You need to use a OTG cable and connect your E17 to it via usb cable.
  
 ***Remember to run the music app first and connect E17 in turned on condition. Or it does not work with most phone.
  
 Let us know if it helps.
  
 Quote:


autoholic said:


> So I tried to set up the E17+E09K combo with my phone. I docked the E17 in lo-bypass mode to the E09K, and attempted to use it with my smartphone with the USB OTG cable. The phone acts like nothing is plugged in, and proceeds to use it's own speakers. In my ignorance and excitement, I assumed that it would work because the E09K runs off DC power, and the phone would be 'streaming' to the E17 DAC, which in turn would be amped by the E09K.
> 
> So what now?
> 
> ...


----------



## Andreeas1978

Theoretically, everything that gets out of the phone's stereo jack is already amped. So yes, it would be double amped and you won't hear the pure FiiO sound..


----------



## imeem

autoholic said:


> Another option before I bought the E09K was to track down a Fiio L7 Line Out Dock to utilize the DAC portion of my E17 and let an O2 or something similarly priced do the amping. I can still return the E09K. If I did this, could I then use my smartphone via USB OTG through the L7?


 
 yea that should work. Your phone ----> L7 LOD+E17 -----> amp via aux/line in. 
  
 I would help you test it out but i don't have usb otg and my smartphone doesn't support it


----------



## vipervick

saiko7 said:


> Did you try resetting it. Most of the problems I had with my E17 goes away after resetting. Hope it's not a hardware related problem.


 
 Resetting did not help. AUX is no longer an input option.


----------



## Autoholic

saiko7 said:


> You need to use the USB to get the digital signal to DAC. AUX wont utilize the DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks. I actually have no trouble using my smartphone with the E17 via USB OTG, and my phone's stock music app works just fine. 

What I'm trying to do is use my smartphone via USB OTG with the E17 _and_ E09K (docked).

The E17 on it's own sounds great, but the E17+E09K combo sounds excellent. I was skeptical before buying the E09K, but not anymore. Even my 50ohm HD598 is significantly improved, never mind my HD650 and HE-400. I just don't want to be limited to this level of sound quality only when I'm on my laptop.






andreeas1978 said:


> Theoretically, everything that gets out of the phone's stereo jack is already amped. So yes, it would be double amped and you won't hear the pure FiiO sound..





Thanks. Yes, that makes sense. I would prefer to hear the 'pure Fiio sound', but it looks like it's impossible to do with an E17+E09K combo and a smartphone. I can only use that combo with a computer.




imeem said:


> yea that should work. Your phone ----> L7 LOD+E17 -----> amp via aux/line in.
> 
> I would help you test it out but i don't have usb otg and my smartphone doesn't support it





Thanks, if all else fails, I may go that route. The only problem is locating an L7 LOD. It's discontinued, and appears to be sold out everywhere but an audio shop in Australia who may or may not want to ship to Canada.

Can anyone here confirm that the above setup would work?


----------



## vipervick

I use the 30-pin LOD for my ipod classic. It used to work great until yesterday.


----------



## Autoholic

Good news guys...it's working now! 

Xperia Z3 --> USB OTG --> E09K with E17 docked in 'Lo-Bypass' mode.

This is what I did before, but it wasn't working. So what happened here? Why is it suddenly working now? Well, I turned on the E17/E09K before plugging it into my phone. That's literally the only thing I did different, and it's working. I can't believe it was something so simple...

Thanks again for the help guys!


----------



## nephilim32

autoholic said:


> Good news guys...it's working now!
> 
> Xperia Z3 --> USB OTG --> E09K with E17 docked in 'Lo-Bypass' mode.
> 
> ...




Glad to hear it!!! Nothing like getting your home/desktop listening situation sorted out beautifully. Enjoy man. I'm loving my E17 right now. I use it for travel. Simple pairing with my I pod nano with 24/192 files via aux paired also with the Sony MDR z7's.


----------



## ClintonL

Havn't used my E17 for a while but since using it in the last few days every once in maybe 3-4 hours the sound cuts and starts buzzing/screeching until i change the default sound device on my laptop to onboard/change it back to e17 in which it's fine. Not sure if this is a driver issue or hardware. I've reinstalled the drivers but still happening.
  
 Cheers


----------



## SoundsGood

Does anyone know if Fiio replaced the line out dock (L7) that was compatible with the E17? The L7 seems to be discontinued everywhere. I want to connect my PC -> E17 -> Stereo receiver and the L7 seemed like a cheap way to do it.
  
 Other suggestions to make this work?
  
 Is it a big deal if I connect the E17 to my receiver through the headphone out? I know I'm using the amp in the E17 to connect to another amp in that situation. Is that bad?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## parasitius

Haven't used my E17 in years, part because I use ODAC at home and I don't leave the house much anymore. The second reason is @#*#*%# Apple removed even the line-out (nevermind they never allowed DAC in the first place) after my 4S moving to 5S. 
  
 MAN WAS I HAPPY when I got my Android 5.0 Asus Zenfone 2 and realized I can plug the sucker into that! If I can just find the right cable to charge AND OTG at the same time, I'll be able to have prefect sound into my car sound system WITH only plugging in 1 single wire.


----------



## kucher12

Hi everyone!
  
 This is my first post, I recently joined the community. I just have a couple questions about E17 . I have FiiO E17 for a couple of years now and I used it mainly in this setup: MacBookPro Retina -- usb --e17 -- JVC HARX700 (my first over the ears on budget). Now I have upgraded to Blue Mo-Fi after researching the forum and speaking to a good friend who works in music production. The headphones are on their way. So I was wondering if I need to change the setup of my e17 to bring the most out of the new headphones?
  
 If I understand correctly this should work:
  
 Firstly, I would need to buy Toslink to Mini-Toslink cable, like this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-Install-Mini-Toslink-Optical-Cable/dp/B003NT6RDO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435176746&sr=8-1&keywords=toslink+to+mini+toslink
  
 I have Toslink to mini-Toslink adapter that came together with e17, so would the following setup work better in terms of sound quality?
  
 Macbook 3.5 jack --- Mini-Toslink --- Toslink +adapter to Mini-Toslink --- SPDIF IN (e17) --- Blue Mo-Fi headphones.
  
 Then playing music in FLAC or Apple lossless presumably would give the most sound quality?
  
 Just wondering if it is worth to change the setup or leave it as it is now - just via USB?
  
 Thank you in advance.


----------



## DDDamian

kucher12 said:


> Then playing music in FLAC or Apple lossless presumably would give the most sound quality?
> 
> Just wondering if it is worth to change the setup or leave it as it is now - just via USB?
> 
> Thank you in advance.


 
 Welcome! And sorry about your wallet lol.
  
 Unless you have a very noisy USB port I doubt you'll hear any difference going TosLink. Many swear an optical connection avoids noise on the line but I haven't had the misfortune of such a bad USB connection. Many others will say that TosLink can be worse than asynchronous USB due to jitter.
  
 If your USB sounds good now you're golden.


----------



## imeem

to me, optical sounds louder than usb.


----------



## kucher12

Hi,
  
 Quick update:
  
 Got the TosLink cable - and I agree with:


> *imeem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> to me, optical sounds louder than usb.


 
 Indeed, it sounds slightly louder than USB. But, essentially it is impossible to listen to the max volume on VOX player anyway, optimal sound is around 50% out of 200% with maxed out AMP and max gain on E17, which is +12 dB.
  
 I think I would prefer to use optical cable for the setup, but not because it's louder or can play higher bitrate, but just because I get to use one extra USB port, which is always handy as I have only 2 on the MacBook.
  
 P.S Mo-Fi's by Blue are just gorgeous in combo with E17.
  
 Cheers


----------



## DDDamian

imeem said:


> to me, optical sounds louder than usb.


 
 Strange, as with a digital signal that implies it's changing the digital bits or data as you would with digital volume control, scaling the values by the volume percentage. They should hit the DAC the same through either mechanism. Perhaps you do have a noisy USB and it's contributing to the noise floor. That would defy logic though that any noise in the digital signal appears only in the lower bits.


----------



## happy hopping

nephilim32 said:


> I am having so much fun with this E 17. It is such a fantastic product. Incredible versatility with this unit. I of course use it for when I'm on the go paired with my I pod via AUX With a premium copper litz cable, and for my bed room I use it with my JVC stereo as a line out paired with my Portable CD player. It's awesome. Quite a reasonable sound set up for sleep time. I just love it and I can understand why this DAC/AMP is rated #1 on this site.


 
  
 for those who are using a portable CD player connecting to this unit, how much difference is there vs. listening to your portable CD player to your headphone w/o this DAC?  Is it easily noticeable or just barely?
  
 because the best CD player that I've seen comes w/ 1 bit DAC, and the sales guy I spoke to today, said it will only make a 5 to 10% difference.  Because the 1 bit DAC is  poor, so no matter what headphone or what DAC you put in, it wouldn't make any difference


----------



## nephilim32

happy hopping said:


> for those who are using a portable CD player connecting to this unit, how much difference is there vs. listening to your portable CD player to your headphone w/o this DAC?  Is it easily noticeable or just barely?
> 
> because the best CD player that I've seen comes w/ 1 bit DAC, and the sales guy I spoke to today, said it will only make a 5 to 10% difference.  Because the 1 bit DAC is  poor, so no matter what headphone or what DAC you put in, it wouldn't make any difference




Hi there. It's great that you've done a bit of background research on this matter, and the 1-bit DAC extra so to speak is very minor, but that all depends on your music sources! You see, I hate streaming and direct digital downloads of music files. Something horribly gets lost in translation and even the highest quality audio gear can't clean up a really heavy compression rate on some of those digital downloads. Cd quality ensures the best. No compression. No mess; however ALAC, WAV and FLAC of course are A-Ok with me, I love cd quality the most. Goes best with what I have. It's all about assurance.


----------



## happy hopping

hey, you're my kind of guy.   Do you have any  link on the latest models of Panasonic or Sony slim portable CD player?  I can't find it in the search engine.  I only use CD portable.
  
 and did they improve anything beyond 1 bit DAC on portable Cd


----------



## ClieOS

happy hopping said:


> for those who are using a portable CD player connecting to this unit, how much difference is there vs. listening to your portable CD player to your headphone w/o this DAC?  Is it easily noticeable or just barely?
> 
> because the best CD player that I've seen comes w/ 1 bit DAC, and the sales guy I spoke to today, said it will only make a 5 to 10% difference.  Because the 1 bit DAC is  poor, so no matter what headphone or what DAC you put in, it wouldn't make any difference


 
  
 Yet another case of salesman doesn't know what he is talking about.
  
 1 bit DAC just means it is bitstream DAC, or Sigma-Delta DAC as we usually refer it to be. That is basically the most common type of DAC in the market these day, found from the cheapest mp3 player to multi-thousands dollars high end gear, as well as in E17.
  
 As far as portable CD player is concerned, you really won't find anything else but 1 bit DAC - and that doesn't mean it is automatically a bad thing.


----------



## happy hopping

very useful information, thanks for the tips.  See, I always thought after so many years, even an slightly used CD player, is better than mine.  But recently I post an unrelated post that there is no reason for me to buy a new CD (desktop) player as there is virtually no change


----------



## nephilim32

happy hopping said:


> hey, you're my kind of guy.   Do you have any  link on the latest models of Panasonic or Sony slim portable CD player?  I can't find it in the search engine.  I only use CD portable.
> 
> and did they improve anything beyond 1 bit DAC on portable Cd




Well your mind kind of sonic brother as well 
You know it's amazing how much data and resolution is held on a standard red book cd bit depth of 16. Also 44 or 48khz is really more than enough if you have high quality audio gear. The FIIO e 17 paired with my I pod containing 16/48k lossless is really wonderful for travel on the go listening. My portable CD player is a 12 year old Sony Walkman with anti skip protection. Lol. You can find any CD player that's portable for a minimal cost. Their have been no advancements on portable CD players. They are a dead media transport device. Anything from audiovox, jvc, penasonic and of course sony all offer the standard goods. 
Remember, there is a good reason why CDs still exist and that you can still buy them. 
Lots of data. Lots.


----------



## hamidr

Hello guyz,
I was thinking of buying a headphone amp/DAC to get a better and louder sound out of my sources like: PC, phone, portable cdp, etc....
My question is would the e17 still be a good buy while the newer e17k is available?
Im intrested in e17 because it has optical in and my old sony cdp has optical out...I also want to connect it to my tv optical out in case of hear it through my hifi amp and use the e17 as a dac only unit.
If e17k sound quality is much better I can live with the lack of optical input

My current hifi HP is senn hd558
Thanks


----------



## vipervick

AUX input still doesn't work. /cry
  
 USB worked, but that doesn't help my iPod Classic.


----------



## mindbomb

So, do you have to worry about  burn in with the oled screen? is it okay to leave the display on for long periods?


----------



## JamesBr

happy hopping said:


> very useful information, thanks for the tips.  See, I always thought after so many years, even an slightly used CD player, is better than mine.  But recently I post an unrelated post that there is no reason for me to buy a new CD (desktop) player as there is virtually no change


 
 +1


----------



## nephilim32

jamesbr said:


> +1




+2.


----------



## DDDamian

mindbomb said:


> So, do you have to worry about  burn in with the oled screen? is it okay to leave the display on for long periods?


 
 It can burn the image onto the screen yes. Better not to leave it on when not needed.


----------



## Bj0rnis

Hello,
  
 I own a Fiio E17 and im happy with the sound it produces with my Bose AE2 but since i upgraded to windows 10 it wont work through USB. When i connect it to any USB-port on the computer it does not recognize it in the sound output menu and when i instead connect it through AUX it only produce a buzzing/crackling sound to the headphones. 
  
 So does the E17 even work with windows 10? It probably would work with spdif but i rather go with USB. If not, could you guys recommend an internal soundcard which does about the same as the E17? 
  
 I must say, good sound and all, but the Fiio driver-support is really bad.


----------



## ehjie

Regarding Outputs using optical, its suppose to be squeaky clean and loud however not as dynamic.


----------



## ehjie

Regarding Outputs using optical, its suppose to be squeaky clean and loud however not as dynamic.


----------



## hamidr

Hello Guys;
 I recently have bought a E17 brand new mainly for its optical capabilities...I found it very good sounding and capable and have not had any issue with it except kind of problem with its display...I noticed there is a dim line right at the middle of each color rows both in home display and menu display. The interesting thing is when battery goes near empty(say one bar or less), those hallow lines going to hide and display looks normal...!
  
 Do you have the same issue? I mean is this normal with E17s or something I should be worried about?
 I always turn the hold key on preventing from screen burn in. Only one week operation and the issue was there from the day first
 Also the battery was dead when unboxed for the first time...
  
  Below are some pictures from the screen hope they're clear enough...
 Thanks in advance
  
  
 You can see the dim line at the middle of the yellow and blue boxes:


----------



## JamesBr

ehjie said:


> Regarding Outputs using optical, its suppose to be squeaky clean and loud however not as dynamic.


 
 +1


----------



## Joe Bloggs

bj0rnis said:


> Hello,
> 
> I own a Fiio E17 and im happy with the sound it produces with my Bose AE2 but since i upgraded to windows 10 it wont work through USB. When i connect it to any USB-port on the computer it does not recognize it in the sound output menu and when i instead connect it through AUX it only produce a buzzing/crackling sound to the headphones.
> 
> ...




Hello Bjorn,

Do you see any installation prompts or ballons coming up from the status bar when you connect the E17?

If you have an optical or coaxial output port on the computer, those should work with the E17 (via the appropriate connecting cables to the relevant port on the E17, and setting the E17 to the relevant mode) regardless of OS. 

The E17 was designed as a driverless device, but it dates from well before Windows 10 or even 8 

Best regards,
Joe for FiiO


----------



## Gisle Faugstad

Yo.
 It´s actually totally increadible that someone that can write so much about FiiO´ s products with a terminology as an enthusiast actually prefer the horrible e11 compared with ten times beter sounding e17. But I agree that the latest of´em is a bit to kind, shiny and bright. This is the solution: use´em both! That sounds absolutely amazing compared to just one of´em at once. Both have major weaknesses without the giant leap it takes with help of the other. They fulfill each other extraordinary well. I use´em with an iPhone 4s. Blows my last brain-cells to many interesting places.
  
 Rock on


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Best cable to connect an E17 to a samsung galaxy S6?
  
 Of course OTG.....
 http://headphones.com.au/psingle?productID=1117
  
 Buuuut...would a micro usb to micro usb work? .....or does it definitely need a 4 pin to 5 pin setup?
  
  
  
  
 Also does it definitely need the app: USB audio recorder pro app.
  
 Thanks in advance.
  
  
  
 (Pretty sure I just answered my own question...but still hopeful I don`t have to go shopping).


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

anyone tried replacing the battery?


----------



## Joe Bloggs

audiobreeder said:


> anyone tried replacing the battery?




Hello AUDIOBREEDER,

Please contact support@fiio.net, they can sell you the replacement battery along with instructions for making the replacement if you're handy with soldering.


----------



## Wiljen

> Originally Posted by *ExpatinJapan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 


> Best cable to connect an E17 to a samsung galaxy S6?
> 
> Of course OTG.....
> http://headphones.com.au/psingle?productID=1117
> ...


 
  
  
 I use the E17 with an HTC m9.  You will need a USB OTG micro to mini cable as the E17 has the mini connection rather than a micro.  I did need the USB Audio Player Pro drivers to get the DAC to work on mine as without it I could use it as a USB connected amp but it would use the phone's internal DAC.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Thank you. Ibasso otg cable ordered!


----------



## 86Quetzalcoatl

Hello everyone,
  
 I got Sennheiser HD 558 and now I'll get FiiO E17 Alpen (in transit)
  I'm using Windows 10 and I'm gonna use that at pc mostly,
  
 Is that bad choice because I'm seeing something wrong with windows 10
 I got an internal sound card Realtek ALC892 on Sabertooth Z77 mobo
 Today I'm ordered an optical cable for connection between them from S/PDIF output on mobo
  
 Any advise will be very appreciated, thanks...


----------



## imeem

86quetzalcoatl said:


> Is that bad choice because* I'm seeing something wrong with windows 10*


 
  
 what do u mean?


----------



## 86Quetzalcoatl

Hello imeem
 I saw at old posts Windows 10 don't recognize E17 if am I connect it to my pc via USB
 I want to use optical output and charge via USB 
 E17 just delivered at home, I'll check that when I back to home.


----------



## imeem

Could be just a isolated case. I have windows 10 and I had no issue with my computer not recognizing the E17 via USB.


----------



## 86Quetzalcoatl

Thank you for that info imeem 
Which connection type could I prefer?
Should I get optic cable for the best?
I'll listen up music from youtube do not have much high quality tracks. 
I'll play video games mostly 
I ordered an optical cable but I can still cancel it if Aux or USB inputs are enough 

Btw I m just get it several hours ago. E17 works well on Windows 10 via USB (FiiO ASIO Drivers)


----------



## imeem

86quetzalcoatl said:


> Thank you for that info @imeem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 if u use aux, you r not using the dac on the E17 and only the amp.
  
 For me, i use optical because i find it is louder than USB and better sound positioning for gaming than using USB.


----------



## 86Quetzalcoatl

Lets pick up an optical cable! 
 You're the best! Thank you so much for your effort.


----------



## DeLaw

audiobreeder said:


> anyone tried replacing the battery?


 
 I received this from Fiio about the Battery        (We are willing to send you a battery. However, as we stopped producing it long time ago, the supplier won't make its battery for us. There is not E17 battery in stock. It is beyond our ability to help you now. Sorry about this.
 Have a nice day! )       It would be nice if you buy something now days that you could get a battery for it  after two or thee years of owning it. If anyone knows were you can get a battery for this thing please let me know,Thanks


----------



## 422561

Can anyone tell me when the battery finally packs in will the device still power up via USB? If I was to get one it would be second hand and permanently plugged into my PC so I'm not bothered about the battery. However, I once had a laptop that would not power on via the mains when the battery had packed in so I just wanted to check.


----------



## DeLaw

I can't answer that but you can still find a smaller battery for it or you could get a larger one and mount it on the outside.


----------



## jnak00

reddfour said:


> Can anyone tell me when the battery finally packs in will the device still power up via USB? If I was to get one it would be second hand and permanently plugged into my PC so I'm not bothered about the battery. However, I once had a laptop that would not power on via the mains when the battery had packed in so I just wanted to check.


 

 I don't know 100% for sure, but I do know that on my E17, if the battery is completely dead, it will not stay turned on.  The power will come on for a couple seconds and then immediately shut off.  I have to charge it for 10 minutes or so before it will stay on, even if it's plugged in.


----------



## appsmarsterx

Any of you have any experience on changing the oled of the E17 ? I'm having some serious burn-in with my E17's oled atm   
  
  

  
  
 update: replaced the oled the and fixed the issue.


----------



## 86Quetzalcoatl

Hello, I'm always lock down by the key on device after turn on power, may I ask did you run it while screen is on too much or whats problem with it?


----------



## audiotechn0

> Could be just a isolated case. I have windows 10 and I had no issue with my computer not recognizing the E17 via USB.


 
  
 Happened to me too...


----------



## VonMillerFan

Can anybody comment on the e17 (and similar portable amps) ability to drive a high load like the Beyerdynamic 880 (250 ohm)?  Generally, I don't listen at high volumes.  How about something like the Q701 (~60 ohms). 
  
 Thanks,
 James


----------



## jnak00

vonmillerfan said:


> Can anybody comment on the e17 (and similar portable amps) ability to drive a high load like the Beyerdynamic 880 (250 ohm)?  Generally, I don't listen at high volumes.  How about something like the Q701 (~60 ohms).
> 
> Thanks,
> James


 
  
 I can't speak directly to that, but with my Hifiman HE-400S (22 ohms), I found 12-14 on the volume scale plenty loud.  The volume goes to 60 so I would imagine the Q701 would be no problem.  I don't listen too loudly either.


----------



## pbui44

audiobreeder said:


> anyone tried replacing the battery?




Yeah, but you will need some soldering experience:

http://chriswoods.co.uk/2015/02/replacing-a-fiio-e7-battery-with-photos/


----------



## vipervick

jnak00 said:


> I can't speak directly to that, but with my Hifiman HE-400S (22 ohms), I found 12-14 on the volume scale plenty loud.  The volume goes to 60 so I would imagine the Q701 would be no problem.  I don't listen too loudly either.


 
 Jesus, with the ER MK-5 I have the gain on +12 and the bass on +6, and still turn it up to 40/60 for my commute. I could never listen to anything that quiet.


----------



## serman005

I have a question for someone on this thread. I have an ipod classic (don't know what generation, as I bought it from someone who didn't know). If I were to get an e17, could I just plug the ipod directly into the e17 via 3.5 mm connectors, and then connect the e17 directly into my headphones? Would that be the way to do it? If not, what would work? Thank you very much for helping someone who is clueless about these connections.


----------



## vipervick

serman005 said:


> I have a question for someone on this thread. I have an ipod classic (don't know what generation, as I bought it from someone who didn't know). If I were to get an e17, could I just plug the ipod directly into the e17 via 3.5 mm connectors, and then connect the e17 directly into my headphones? Would that be the way to do it? If not, what would work? Thank you very much for helping someone who is clueless about these connections.


 
 Yes that would work, but I use the line-out-dock cord. 32 pin Apple connector to the AUX input of the E17.
  
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-L-Shaped-Line-Cable-iPhone/dp/B005N6ZAT2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461264172&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+lod+cable


----------



## Gilles Dac

bowei006 said:


> It uses a lithium ion battery. As of this moment there is no found DIY self replacement battery. Another user, sounddreamer I believe took apart his E17 for.....for science of course
> 
> Here is his pic!
> 
> ...


According to a tutorial the E17 is very easy to replace the 3.7Volts ~1000mAh LiPo battery on. But I think it's a little challenging experience to obtain a seller of this ultra special battery.


----------



## ClintonL

Hey using this via OTG with an android phone and wondering what volume should i set on the phone? Should i set the volume on the phone to low then control it using the e17 or set it to 100% on the phone?


----------



## MUSICCURE

My E17 is still going strong after 2 years of use. I recently bought a Mojo which sadly doesnt play Spotify on my Note 2. I had to use the E17 and it surprised me how good it sounded with a variety of headphones. Never once had any playback issues and it played all my apps.


----------



## FiiO

clintonl said:


> Hey using this via OTG with an android phone and wondering what volume should i set on the phone? Should i set the volume on the phone to low then control it using the e17 or set it to 100% on the phone?


 
  Generally it will not matter what volume is set on the phone, but you may try to set it to 100%, so to get better control on the E17K


----------



## skidxb

Hi mate i already have fiio e17 i like the review of CENTRANCE dacport massdrop edt do you think is it going to be a upgrade from e17 ? Thnx


----------



## ClintonL

Should i use high gain and low volume or low gain and high volume? Not sure what to set it at.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Gilles Dac

I definitely prefer the iPhone on max or one step below max in addition to a gain at 6dB (sometimes I gain the BASS on 2 or very seldom 4). Then it depends on the impedance of the headset how high I set my E17 (so called portable Dac - IF you purchase a damn camera-kit etc.).... A low volume at the FiiO with max gain (12dB) does not give nice SQ. If you're into photography it is equal to raise the ISO. Some of my phones prefer 60 at E17s Volume + max iPhone volume + 6dB gain + +2-4 bass eq! That's why I almost always use the E11 together with E17. I obtained $10.00 12cm long minijack to minijack-homemade cables by a man who does his things the right way. These cables are almost as thick as my little-fingers with silver plates OFC and a lot of necassery isolation. Everyone I've asked if they would like to guess the true price on the beautiful made cables guess about 60-80USD each. And that's what they look like! It depends on the phones but the E11 on low gain + EQ1 and medium volume source at max (mostly use TIDAL HIFI lossless files - iCrapunes should be set as low as possible - VOX are ok!) and the E17 about 43-47 (yeah - I'm a fan of more is even more in contrast to those bubble heads that likes intricate jazz-septetts as low as possible)! Now I've finally got the great HA-2 (OPPO) that's a portable Dac/amp and powerbank. I'll try mix it with my E17 or more likely E11 with it instead of putting on the bass-knob and/or high gain knob. My only phones with huge and strong + extraordinarily quality is my cheapest = AKG K550 (50mm) (but the 1977-Pioneer Monitor 10s with even larger diameter <57mm> just screams - pump up the volume = DANCE DANCE). It's horrible to end a listening session with the Monitor 10s who are being recabled (all/the/way + gets new lamb skin leather pads). Those who claim the 10s bass is bad, are unlucky owners of ruined items! The layered bass is eminent on my iMac-Cambridge Magic + - Argon HA-2 (semi-tube preamp/phones amp/poor Dac (bypasses the Dac Magic +). The phone-output on the Norwegian fake of a Chinease brand is far better than C.A.dm+ AND have pre-out to my four pairs Norwegian Argon active speakers (the latest model is the best value for money right now). People just need far better pre-amps compares to the horrible Dac/pre-amps! I used an old NADs preout and the small monitors sounded like a Rotterdam rave. I jumped to turn down the volume because I was sure everything went to hell, BUT the speakers continues to play load and Clear as Norwegian spring-water.. Another example that it's to small amps that ruin speakers - very very uncommon a reason of to much power! People far to often buy huge Cerwin Vega-crap and uses an integrated Harman/Kardon amp = Koko!  
Is anyone capable of telling how to make AKG K550 mkII/Pioneer Monitor 10 77'models balanced? Is it tricky to get the cable from the left to the right channel on them? Any tutorials.

I would very much enjoy a solution to the small Momentum mkI (got them for nothing). If you would like a tip. Use 30% on active speakers and 70+ on cables: interconnects - speaker - power - coax - subwoofer and optical (last ain't to important as long it fits the hole perfectly and are well-isolated "light is light"!

BTW: B&Ws P7s are yet another overrated product from a company whose most expensive solutions even are useless to play Nintendo on 50 000$ set-up. They've produced some fabulous sounding monitors. P3 should've been given leathal injections together with their floor standing tragedies!! If you are lucky enough to come across a Norwegian made mini-Dac (nf = 140dB = flat) w/analog/optical output = buy it! It costed 2400$ when it came, then the price dropped to the ½ of that (24bit/96kHz). It's name is HEGEL Super (one piece brushed aluminum, and I & I got it for free... I've seen it at 800$ on eBay several times. I'll try to obtain a couple in its home-country and sell them without any advance to show Americans that Norwegian brands (Tandberg, Electecompaniet and HEGEL) outperform McIntosh & **** you're making (xept Schiit)))


----------



## Gilles Dac

skidxb said:


> Hi mate i already have fiio e17 i like the review of CENTRANCE dacport massdrop edt do you think is it going to be a upgrade from e17 ? Thnx



What do you mean? The e17k's docking station are out in the shops! Don't downgrade to e17k!!! Buy something else! It's piercing my ears on most cans if not serial connected with the darker e11 (almost free and use similar battery as the most common Nokia-type. Easy to change as well. OPPO ha-2 is in another class than Chinease entry-level products for poor youth or wannabes! Sabre =


----------



## ArmyDicked

ABSOLUTELY, USE IT WITH YOUR SMART PHONE!!!  I have an ancient (Pre Pottery Neolithic A) iPhone 4S with 32GIGs almost exclusively with 80s Post Punk Video Content.  I am running the iPhone 4S as my dedicated MUSIC SERVER with the Fiio E17 serving both as a dedicated outboard DAC a-n-d as my Pre-Amp with TONE CONTROLS (although as an AudioPhile I despise TONE CONTROLS, most of my MTV Videos of THE SOUND, PINK TURNS BLUE, THE CHAMELEONS, ADULT NET, THE OPPOSITION, Sad Giants & Lovers (SLAG), etc. Etc) are low rez affairs requiring a bass & treble boost).
  
 What you DON'T WANT TO DO is use it as a HEADPHONE AMP for your Car Stereo as I did with my ALPINE X001.  I adored the boost & clearity for THREE MONTHS---until it toasted the head unit's MotherBoard---Waaaah!!!!
  
 The E-17 is a stunning unit for the PRICE. It's got a Wolfson DAC (I forgot the number) that can go up to 96Khz/24bits on SOME Computer material.  Don't freaque if it mostly shows 44K or 48k---its rare to get the 96/24 to sync.  The Wolfson DAC is a Killer DAC for 2012 but is a bit dated today [Another reason N-E-V-E-R by a Pre-Amp with a dedicated, on board DAC---they're obsolete the moment they are designed---No, you want a quality LINE STAGE PRE-AMP that you plug in your disposable DAC into.  My iPhone 4S/Fiio E17/Acurus RL11 Line Stage Pre-Amp powered by my matching Acurus A150 Amp sounds absolutely STELLAR.  A Giant Killer $1600 combo in 1995, they can be had USED for about $200 each. The Acurus RL 11 PreAmp can then be modernized for about $600.00 and sound like a MODERN, 'CLASS B' ($6,000.00) Pre-Amp.
  
 FYI, I picked up the Fiio E17 when I returned to school after 12 years on my VET Money. What a trip---the whole campus had kids walking around with HUGE HEADPHONES on their necks connected to their IPHONES or NoteBook Computers. I read the reviews on outboard headphone amps (to boost the Base & Midrange) and the FIIO got great reviews. So I picked up one and it looks awesome (Black Brushed Aluminum and Digital ReadOuts).  I was in my Accounting Class waiting for class to start when I popped out my Iphone 4S, took out my Fiio E17 and Jacked in my Bose AEO2s (which sound great considering how I hate BOSE Products).  One student saw my unit, asked to hear what it sounded like and before I knew it, I had twenty Twenty-Somethings enthralled by my TOY!!!  Its an old technology NOW but for the money, the FIIO was a BEST BUY back in 2012!!!
  
 Thanks for the update as to FIIO's refusal to provide MiddleWare/FirmWare updates. From a Marketing & Customer Support standpoint, THAT'S JUST PLAIN S-T-O-O-P-I-D!!!  Even my FITBIT ONE has a middleware update!!!  If its electronic and it has a computer in it, it needs FIRMWARE UPDATES just to deal with the security breeches!!!


----------



## ArmyDicked

WannaBes? I beg to differ. Although I enjoy a good Claret, I wouldn't necessarily want to swig a glass of 1929 Chateau LaFette Rothchild with my Hostess TWINKIE!!!  There is a TIME & PLACE for everything including 'Quick & Dirty'. My GO TO Headphones are my STAX Lambdas but, even if I could convert them from balanced outputs to unbalanced 3.5mm miniplugs, would I want to do that to rock out on my Compaq 6910p Business Computer as I sip my Yrgerchef Etheopean Espresso at Temple roasters?  Hell No. When I am in ROAD WARRIOR MODE, my Bose AEO2s jacked into my Fiio E17 are fine for the HOTEL ROOM. When I am at home, nothing but my Little Lambies will do.  ITs called O-V-E-R-K-I-L-L and 'nothing exceeds like excess' is so 'Greed is Good 80's!!!  Although I OWN an Audi TT, my everyday Commuter car (SAC to SF & back) is a 1999 Madza Miata (with ALL THE TOYS---Mish Radiator, Bremo Rotors, Tyres, Suspension upgrades, etc. 31miles a gallon() which will SMOKE a Porsche 911 on HIWY 101's S-Turns (1700lbs @ 165hp!!!)---I know, because I DID IT!!! Someone swaps paint with my Commuter Car and I won't cry; do that with an Audi R8 and you'll wake up the Chinese Premier!!! Remember:  Pretentious Advice is worse than NO ADVICE AT ALL!!!


----------



## Kiba No Ou

Someone have the E17 with Windows 10 Build 14936 and can play file with 88.2 or higher sample rate over USB?


----------



## ArmyDicked

My understanding is that FIIO has abandoned the E17 Alpen platform and are performing no authorized middleware (firmware) updates.  That means you are stuck at 96hz 24bit resolution & playback  Most applications will only do up to 48hrz 16bit which is REDBOOK quality only. Besides, I understand the Wolfson DAC can't handle 128hrz 24 bit resolution---you essentually are buying the FIIO E17 as a 3.5mm HEADPHONE mini amp for your computer/SmartPhone.


----------



## ArmyDicked

The FIIO E-17 was a stellar outboard DAC-Headphone amp when it was first introduced (2010?!!!). It looked drop dead georgeous and was a fantastic upgrade for the 1878 telephone (TRS) 3.5mm HeadPhone jack mated either to a COMPUTER else a smart phone. Me? If you can find one used else at a steep discount (mine in 2012 was only $129.00) then jump on it.  It is FOOLISH to drop any money on an EXPENSIVE out board DAC/HeadPhone amp when everything is migrating to INTEL LIGHTENING CONNECTIONS which promise 20 megabit data throughputs. Apple was right to dump the 3.5mm jack---I just am livid that they dropped the technology on us WITHOUT ANY WARNING!!!  Virtually NOBODY supports Lightening connectors on the market---they are almost all 2.0 USB and the occasional 3.0 USB such as my Western Digital portable HD (Passport).  BOTTOM LINE: Never upgrade Operating Systems.  I upgraded my COMPAQ 6910P 'luggable' notebook (2007 technology) from WIN 7 Pro to WIN10 Pro and it wouldn't work properly.  Then I found out WHY.  I had the T7500 CPU 2.2Ghz Duo Core that had a seperate video chip ATI RADEON (I forgot the number) that wasn't upgraded to support WIN10.  That is why everything crashed on it and why ITSB spanked my little hands with their digital rulers!!!
  
 BOTTOM LINE: If you have a FIIO E17 Alpen---run it STOCK for your NOTEBOOK with a pair of cheap (sub $200.00 cans such as the Grado SR80s, Klipsch & Bose AEO2s). You WILL HEAR A TREMENDOUS increase of quality over just jacking into your iPhone alone or your Notebook/Laptop---however, it is dated technology and not the best. Don't by 1878 telephone technology (TiP & Ring Sleeve) 3.5mm Unbalanced phones or audio equipment---hold out for Intel Lightening technology.
  
 FYI, if you are buying a FANCY 'MUSIC SERVER' always buy one with a DIGITAL LINE OUT and not with the DAC integrated into the MO'Board. DACs are like WOMEN'S FASHIONS---they have a FOUR MONTH shelf life until they are HOPELESSLY obsolete. Hey, I L-O-V-E OPPO and have a Universal OPPO DVD player.  I w-o-n-t drop $3K on OPPO's state of the Art BLUE RAY Player because BLU RAYS are an obsolete CONTENT delivery System that will disappear in the next 3-5 years.  Then you can migrate it to your own, personal TECH musium with your IPODS, your old IPHONES, Your LPS/45s/EPs, your Reel to Reel, Cassette Tapes, 8 Tracks & DAT Tape machines, Your OVER THE AIR Broadcast FM Tuners and your Edison Cylinder players!!!


----------



## DeLaw

kiba no ou said:


> Someone have the E17 with Windows 10 Build 14936 and can play file with 88.2 or higher sample rate over USB?


 

 Don't know about that Build, I have Win 10 Pro Build 14393.222 Anniversary Update and it plays anything using FooBar (DSD,24-192,mp3...).
 Do not know what the real output is as the E17 read only 48K 16bit no matter what I play through it.


----------



## Kiba No Ou

The E17 display 48K/16bit no matter the input is 44.1K or 48K, and 96K if the input is 88.2K or 96K.
With DS I can upsample with SoX with no problem at all but if I use WASAPI even 88.2 KHz doesn't play.


----------



## DeLaw

Changed some settings and lost DSD but plays everything else  and shows 96K 24bit.I'll have to dig up a 88.2k to try it if I have one.


----------



## Kiba No Ou

delaw said:


> Changed some settings and lost DSD but plays everything else  and shows 96K 24bit.I'll have to dig up a 88.2k to try it if I have one.


 
 Every time I try to upsample with SoX even at 2x I got this:
 "Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 88200 Hz / 24-bit / 2 channels".
 With WASAPI of course cause DS can play it fine.


----------



## Andreeas1978

armydicked said:


> My understanding is that FIIO has abandoned the E17 Alpen platform and are performing no authorized middleware (firmware) updates.  That means you are stuck at 96hz 24bit resolution & playback  Most applications will only do up to 48hrz 16bit which is REDBOOK quality only. Besides, I understand the Wolfson DAC can't handle 128hrz 24 bit resolution---you essentually are buying the FIIO E17 as a 3.5mm HEADPHONE mini amp for your computer/SmartPhone.


 What do you mean it can't handle 128hrz 24bit, doesn't it use the same chip when playing 192 24 on optical and coax? Thank you.


----------



## Subhakar

How better is E17K Alpen-2 over the original E17 Alpen in both DAC and Amp performances?


----------



## SonX

Hey I just purchased an E17, and I was wondering if anyone else is having issues with youtube videos? I watch a lot of videos where people are speaking into mics, and there is often a constant hissing sound in the background. Is the E17 just revealing the background noise from their mics or is it just a youtube problem?
  
 To be clear, I can play music just fine, and there is no hissing when I'm not playing anything. I'm connected using USB to my computer.


----------



## NewbieButEager

appsmarsterx said:


> Any of you have any experience on changing the oled of the E17 ? I'm having some serious burn-in with my E17's oled atm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Could you please elaborate on:
  
 How you replaced the oled screen?
 and, where you found a replacement?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Firelthos

That's pretty odd... I've never had that problem before. Care to give an example? Maybe I can check it with mine and see if it's a problem for me too.


----------



## imeem

yea my f17 has a very faint burn in line only noticeable when u go into the menu and in the middle. I put my device on hold whenever i can to turn off the screen.


----------



## vipervick

Piece of crap. Second time I've had this problem now. The AUX input just disappeared again. I run a LOD from my iPod classic 30-pin to AUX. Now it's useless...

Last time I had to ship it to China and it took like 2 months to get it fixed


----------



## vipervick

This is the problem...


----------



## hyogen

subhakar said:


> How better is E17K Alpen-2 over the original E17 Alpen in both DAC and Amp performances?


 
 I think the original one is better. I much prefer the Wolfson DAC


----------



## FiiO

vipervick said:


> This is the problem...




 Dear vipervick,
  
 It is a hardware issue. When did you buy the E17? Would you like to send it back to us for repair? Sorry for bringing inconvenience to you.
  
 Best regards


----------



## vipervick

fiio said:


> Dear vipervick,
> 
> It is a hardware issue. When did you buy the E17? Would you like to send it back to us for repair? Sorry for bringing inconvenience to you.
> 
> Best regards


 
 Thanks FiiO, but I bought it almost 4 years ago, November 2013.


----------



## FiiO

vipervick said:


> Thanks FiiO, but I bought it almost 4 years ago, November 2013.


 
 Dear vipervick,
  
 If you would prefer to buy the renew one E17 which is named E17S instead, you can send email to support@fiio.net about that.
  
 Best regards


----------



## DeLaw

vipervick, if you have a Fiio L7 Line out dock try pluging it in and out to see it will start working again. When Plugged in aux is disabled. Can't hurt to try.


----------



## zachary80

delaw said:


> vipervick, if you have a Fiio L7 Line out dock try pluging it in and out to see it will start working again. When Plugged in aux is disabled. Can't hurt to try.


 
 Are these still sold anywhere? The usual suspects were OOS (discontinued)


----------



## nealh

I don't know if this is the right thread...
I bought 2 weeks ago an E17k new and use it as an AMP/DAC with micro USB-lightning connector with my iPhone 7 at volumes of 12-15/60 0 gain/bass/treble and battery life is about half of advertised. 
I'm not getting near 15hrs. 

I did a full charge over night and after 4hrs of use I'm done to 2 bars

I'm still in the return period ..should I get an exchange?


----------



## pbui44

nealh said:


> I don't know if this is the right thread...
> I bought 2 weeks ago an E17k new and use it as an AMP/DAC with micro USB-lightning connector with my iPhone 7 at volumes of 12-15/60 0 gain/bass/treble and battery life is about half of advertised.
> I'm not getting near 15hrs.
> 
> ...




You can PM FiiO about it or wait for them to reply to this thread.


----------



## FiiO

nealh said:


> I don't know if this is the right thread...
> I bought 2 weeks ago an E17k new and use it as an AMP/DAC with micro USB-lightning connector with my iPhone 7 at volumes of 12-15/60 0 gain/bass/treble and battery life is about half of advertised.
> I'm not getting near 15hrs.
> 
> ...


 
 Dear nealh,
  
 Please try to test the battery life first: Measure the battery life from the time the E17K starts playing to the time when the E17K runs out of battery and shuts down automatically. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you. 
  
 Best regards


----------



## nealh

fiio said:


> Dear nealh,
> 
> Please try to test the battery life first: Measure the battery life from the time the E17K starts playing to the time when the E17K runs out of battery and shuts down automatically. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.
> 
> Best regards



Working on that. Thx for the follow-up


----------



## Subhakar

Anyone used E17 as a DAC with "OnePlus One"? Works without issues?


----------



## FiiO

subhakar said:


> Anyone used E17 as a DAC with "OnePlus One"? Works without issues?


 
 Dear Subhakar,
  
 The E17 is designed for the computer originally. But you may try to use the micro to USB+ mini USB cable to see whether it helps.
  
 Best regards


----------



## davidwyl (May 3, 2017)

My fiio e17 display screen is completely gone. The display is way too dark to see even under dark room. So I decided to open it up see I can replace the oled screen. It is 0.96inch oled display inside and and  is widely available and it is very cheap. I ordered the screen and will replace it see if it work.
The hardest part in this repair is to open the front case cos it is glued down extremely well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







Here is the link to the image of the oled.
https://goo.gl/photos/FrJotDkb5s4Tq4qq9
https://goo.gl/photos/KEUUTC1dLKNE9JiCA


----------



## PioBeer

Hi guys, I had a friend buy me the E17 Alpen (to arrive on Monday). I will be using it paired with my Android Moto X Pure. First off, will this even work? I noticed that the e17 was designed mainly for connecting to PC, but this really won't be how I will use it. If the phone outputs digital audio via USB micro (I assume this is pretty standard these days?) then the only thing I would need to do would be to buy a usb-micro (output on phone) to usb-mini (input on e17) cable? Theoretically is this all that needs to happen? Anything I am missing?
How can I be sure my phone outputs pure digital audio via USB?

Thanks guys


----------



## garetz

Looks like all the e17 and e17k are dying in droves. I had one of each and both have frozen displays.
I had the e17 from new, died at the 5 year mark, so i got a 2nd hand e17k which also died recently.


----------



## Erikesp

Are they doing anything about it? Probably not since it has been this long


----------



## garetz

Looks like they have an inherent flaw built in that leads to failure, probably why they stopped selling them.


----------



## nephilim32

garetz said:


> Looks like all the e17 and e17k are dying in droves. I had one of each and both have frozen displays.
> I had the e17 from new, died at the 5 year mark, so i got a 2nd hand e17k which also died recently.



that is why there only 120$. 
can’t expect much for a price like that I feel.


----------



## mdyoung216

nephilim32 said:


> that is why there only 120$.
> can’t expect much for a price like that I feel.


I'm using an E17 Alpen on my desktop computer as I guess for my sound card.  It's working fine, but I have had it for a while.  In the event it goes down what was the FiiO replacement/upgrade for the E17?   I e-mailed them and they said the K3 or Q5.  Would those replace the E17 for what I'm doing, or is there something better?   I  don't use headphones.  Have my computer speakers plugged into that connector FiiO sold on one side with a 3.5 mm plug, and USB cable coming out the other side going to the computer.  That's plugged into the E17 USB port.


----------



## pbui44

mdyoung216 said:


> I'm using an E17 Alpen on my desktop computer as I guess for my sound card.  It's working fine, but I have had it for a while.  In the event it goes down what was the FiiO replacement/upgrade for the E17?   I e-mailed them and they said the K3 or Q5.  Would those replace the E17 for what I'm doing, or is there something better?   I  don't use headphones.  Have my computer speakers plugged into that connector FiiO sold on one side with a 3.5 mm plug, and USB cable coming out the other side going to the computer.  That's plugged into the E17 USB port.



If you still need a portable and don’t want FiiO, here is a somewhat-clear (pricier) upgrade:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24460

Otherwise, get this and leave the e17 for travel:

https://www.amazon.com/TOPPING-E30-...9C9Y79Z5T4S&psc=1&refRID=XZYX0QS059C9Y79Z5T4S


----------



## mdyoung216

pbui44 said:


> If you still need a portable and don’t want FiiO, here is a somewhat-clear (pricier) upgrade:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24460
> 
> ...



I don't need portable.  The E17 stays connected to my desktop computer all the time.   I attached a screen shot that shows how the E17 is recognized by my computer.  Will both of these do the same?


----------



## pbui44

mdyoung216 said:


> I don't need portable.  The E17 stays connected to my desktop computer all the time.   I attached a screen shot that shows how the E17 is recognized by my computer.  Will both of these do the same?



In Windows, both of the DACs that I linked above should automatically recognize and be installed with default drivers, but will be limited up to 24-bit/96k sampling rate from the default drivers.  Therefore, specific drivers will be needed for those DACs to play at higher sampling rates.


----------



## pbui44

In Windows 10 with recent updates, the UAC2 default driver will allow both DACs to play sampling rates above 24-bit/96k, but possibly not at the highest sampling rate available to them.


----------



## Julius Decimus (Jan 13, 2021)

mdyoung216 said:


> I'm using an E17 Alpen on my desktop computer as I guess for my sound card. It's working fine, but I have had it for a while.


Good day.

You are using it connected that way for how long ? Like 2-3 years ?
The problem with these devices (e17/17k) is that after years their battery inside gets swollen and that damage the battery itself and can the mainboard inside as well.
That happens at somewhere between 3 and 4-rth year of use, depending on the battery and the use, but generally yes.

If you are happy with it can try to check what is the battery condition. In electronic services they can do it as well. If not, the guys mentioned some Dacs above. You can also check Fiio K5Pro, this is desktop Dac/Amp.

https://www.fiio.com/k5pro_faq

Topping is good as well.

Happy listening


----------



## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Good day.
> 
> You are using it connected that way for how long ? Like 2-3 years ?
> The problem with these devices (e17/17k) is that after years their battery inside gets swollen and that damage the battery itself and can the mainboard inside as well.
> ...



Been connected like that since the E17 came out.  Thanks for the info.  Still seems to be working fine.  Just wanted to have some options for when it dies.


----------



## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Good day.
> 
> You are using it connected that way for how long ? Like 2-3 years ?
> The problem with these devices (e17/17k) is that after years their battery inside gets swollen and that damage the battery itself and can the mainboard inside as well.
> ...


Well I thought the E17 was working fine.  Since I never mess with it, and leave it on all the time I just noticed the volume controls aren't working and the screen is dead.  So I ordered from Amazon the K5 Pro.


----------



## Julius Decimus

mdyoung216 said:


> Well I thought the E17 was working fine.  Since I never mess with it, and leave it on all the time I just noticed the volume controls aren't working and the screen is dead.  So I ordered from Amazon the K5 Pro.


Well, you could try to reset it. But other than that yeah, for a 8-9 years the battery is i would say 100% swollen and its not very safe to use it like that. If there is no convenient way for you to change it, better look for another device is probably the best choice yes.

Happy listening when the new one arives. 

You can write some quick impressions as well later, if you have time and desire to do so of course. Like does it sound different to you and such compared to e17.


----------



## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Well, you could try to reset it. But other than that yeah, for a 8-9 years the battery is i would say 100% swollen and its not very safe to use it like that. If there is no convenient way for you to change it, better look for another device is probably the best choice yes.
> 
> Happy listening when the new one arives.
> 
> You can write some quick impressions as well later, if you have time and desire to do so of course. Like does it sound different to you and such compared to e17.


The K5Pro came from Amazon today.  The E17 I reset it, but screen is still dead.  However, I hooked it up to my phone through the AUX and I was able to switch the input so that I could hear music through headphones and the volume controls worked.   Not sure what I'll do with it, but at least I know it's not trash.

Now the K5Pro is connected.  I installed the driver and it seems to be working.   Now as far as it sounding better than the E17 I probably need better computer speakers to really tell.  I'm using Altec Lansing VS4221 speakers.   If someone would suggest good computer speakers I would appreciate it.

I'm looking at the sample rate and bit depth and is is at 32bit 41000Hz.  Have no idea what that is, but is that what should be selected?    I listened to the MP3 files I have and only the blue light lights.  Is there a certain type of music file that will light the yellow or green light?   If there is where can I download one to see if the yellow or green light comes one.  I have it set on the 2nd Gain level.  Didn't seem loud enough on the 1st level.


----------



## Julius Decimus (Jan 16, 2021)

mdyoung216 said:


> I'm looking at the sample rate and bit depth and is is at 32bit 41000Hz. Have no idea what that is, but is that what should be selected? I listened to the MP3 files I have and only the blue light lights.


Blue is normal yes. Your mp3 files are below 48 000hz, in the manual says for a signals below 48 000 is blue light.

Now for the settings, go to "Sound" in Windows. Like you did in the picture you posted above. Then there where E17 was in the list, you should now see K5 something. Select it and go to "properties" down on the right.

New window should appear looking similar to this: https://helpdeskgeek.com/wp-content...device-properties-advanced-default-format.png

And here, go to "Advanced". There check what supported formats are and set whatever you like from the list there (and click on OK or Apply yes). Then try to play a song and it should have yellow light not blue one if you selected something with above 48 000hz.

32 bit and 96 000hz is OK to set. Or 24 bit 96 000hz. It should have a lot higher than this, up to 384 or 768 000 hz. But i dont know if you set to max if this will not affect the computer performance.

And then whatever music you are playing on the computer, even from Youtube, it should be yellow all the time.



mdyoung216 said:


> I have it set on the 2nd Gain level. Didn't seem loud enough on the 1st level.


OK. Well, it is 3-4 times more powerful than e17. Good that it works. Set it as you like.


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## mdyoung216 (Jan 16, 2021)

Julius Decimus said:


> Blue is normal yes. Your mp3 files are below 48 000hz, in the manual says for a signals below 48 000 is blue light.
> 
> Now for the settings, go to "Sound" in Windows. Like you did in the picture you posted above. Then there where E17 was in the list, you should now see K5 something. Select it and go to "properties" down on the right.
> 
> ...



It's listed as FiiO Q series and calls it Speakers.  There is no Supported Formats tab.   Could that be because I'm using the line out for my powered speakers?

There was no other 32bit setting so I selected 24bit 96000.   Where the blue light was a solid blue now light is a yellow green color.  Not a solid yellow or green.  The original 32bit selection is gone from the list.  So dumb it down for me.  What did I do by changing that?


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## Julius Decimus (Jan 16, 2021)

mdyoung216 said:


> There was no other 32bit setting so I selected 24bit 96000.   Where the blue light was a solid blue now light is a yellow green color.  Not a solid yellow or green.  The original 32bit selection is gone from the list.  So dumb it down for me.  What did I do by changing that?


Ahm...no worries. Nothing will happen to it. Don't worry to change settings. Electric shock might damage this device, like from a lightning during storm or something like that for example. Settings and buttons on it, is just fine.

Green is for a DSD signal i see in manual. If you tried to play such, then it might be green. But i think it may be the LED light (the lamp inside that glows) inside the device that is not well placed around the edges and this is why you see little from yellow and green.
If there is yellow i think its fine and don't worry at all.
24 bit 96 000hz is OK.
You can of course try different ones, its not needed to be what i am writing.
In general what you want to do with these settings is to set them higher or the same as the music you have. So if you listen "Hi-Res" music, labeled as 24bit 96 000hz from somewhere, streaming services, disk or so, you want this setting there to be at least set on 24 bit 96 000hz. Or above this. That way you will have all the frequency range from the file that you are listening and its "Hi-Res".

Now mp3 are 16 bit 44 100 hz or 16 bit 48 000hz, so if you want the best quality out of that, you need to set it to at least 16 bit 48 000hz or above that.

If you go in the Internet and buy a "Hi-Res" albums from somewhere, that are lets say labeled 24 bit 96 000hz or 24 bit 192 000hz and such, then you want this setting there to be at least set to these values so you hear the best quality of your music.

And because this i think 24 bit 96 000hz works fine in general and you can set to this and leave it and just forget about it and listen to your music and use your computer. But if you happen to listen files that are above 24 bit 96 000hz, then its best to go and change it to higher. Thats it.


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## Julius Decimus

mdyoung216 said:


> It's listed as FiiO Q series and calls it Speakers. There is no Supported Formats tab. Could that be because I'm using the line out for my powered speakers?


Could be.
I am not sure about this. You need to see it there (the K series of Fiio) in the Sound settings. If its not there, might be wrong driver installed.
You sure you installed for K5Pro ?

https://www.fiio.com/k5pro_faq
Here click on USB DAC, the big icon in the page.
If you installed that, then should be all fine.


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## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Ahm...no worries. Nothing will happen to it. Don't worry to change settings. Electric shock might damage this device, like from a lightning during storm or something like that for example. Settings and buttons on it, is just fine.
> 
> Green is for a DSD signal i see in manual. If you tried to play such, then it might be green. But i think it may be the LED light (the lamp inside that glows) inside the device that is not well placed around the edges and this is why you see little from yellow and green.
> If there is yellow i think its fine and don't worry at all.
> ...



It's listed as FiiO Q series and calls it Speakers.  There is no Supported Formats tab.   Could that be because I'm using the line out for my powered speakers?   Is that something to be concerned about?


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## Julius Decimus

mdyoung216 said:


> It's listed as FiiO Q series and calls it Speakers.  There is no Supported Formats tab.   Could that be because I'm using the line out for my powered speakers?   Is that something to be concerned about?


You are using the K5Pro as a DAC right ? The USB cable from your computer goes to the Fiio and then in the front panel of the Fiio you have the speakers connected. Its only one hole in the front of the Fiio. You need connect your speakers to there.
And from the computer you need only USB cable that goes to the back of the Fiio.


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## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Could be.
> I am not sure about this. You need to see it there (the K series of Fiio) in the Sound settings. If its not there, might be wrong driver installed.
> You sure you installed for K5Pro ?
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's Sounds, but as I was saying it is listed as


Julius Decimus said:


> Could be.
> I am not sure about this. You need to see it there (the K series of Fiio) in the Sound settings. If its not there, might be wrong driver installed.
> You sure you installed for K5Pro ?
> 
> ...



That's the file I downloaded and installed.     Just wondering why it's calling it Speakers.


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## Julius Decimus (Jan 16, 2021)

mdyoung216 said:


> That's the file I downloaded and installed.


Ok.
Well, i don't know why it says Q series. Might be because of the driver. Meybe they have same driver for K and Q series. Which is OK to use and should not be differences.

I dont know if it should say "speakers" as well. Meybe is normal. I dont have K5Pro with me to be a 100% sure.
But, if you installed the driver above (which you did) and what i wrote above:


"You are using the K5Pro as a DAC right ? The USB cable from your computer goes to the Fiio and then in the front panel of the Fiio you have the speakers connected. Its only one hole in the front of the Fiio. You need connect your speakers to there.
And from the computer you need only USB cable that goes to the back of the Fiio."

The hole in the front panel is not 3.5mm, keep in mind. There should be adapter in the Fiio box that you insert in it and it becomes 3.5mm on the end and you insert the 3.5mm to your speakers there.


If followed this, all should be fine and good to use.
However if somebody else joins and says if its OK will be better as well. To me looks fine, i just dont know why it says "speakers". Meybe because of this model device and its fine. I am not sure because if you check your old picture with E17, there says "SPDIF Interface". Not "speakers". And thats why i am not sure. Better if somebody else also give opinion.


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## Julius Decimus

Julius Decimus said:


> The hole in the front panel is not 3.5mm, keep in mind. There should be adapter in the Fiio box that you insert in it and it becomes 3.5mm on the end and you insert the 3.5mm to your speakers there.


https://headfonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/14_晤憮.jpg

The golden thing.


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## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Ok.
> Well, i don't know why it says Q series. Might be because of the driver. Meybe they have same driver for K and Q series. Which is OK to use and should not be differences.
> 
> I dont know if it should say "speakers" as well. Meybe is normal. I dont have K5Pro with me to be a 100% sure.
> ...



I have it connect by the USB cable that came with it.  I have the speakers connected to the line out in the back.  So you think using the head phone jack for the speakers is better than using the line out in the back?


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## Julius Decimus

mdyoung216 said:


> I have it connect by the USB cable that came with it.  I have the speakers connected to the line out in the back.  So you think using the head phone jack for the speakers is better than using the line out in the back?


Whichever way works best. Line out is better for speakers, you are right. Just was thinking will be more easy for you to connect it to the front.
But again, i think its best somebody else give opinion as well for the whole thing. 
If you have read the manual, and there is so written to do, then all is fine.


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## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Whichever way works best. Line out is better for speakers, you are right. Just was thinking will be more easy for you to connect it to the front.
> But again, i think its best somebody else give opinion as well for the whole thing.
> If you have read the manual, and there is so written to do, then all is fine.


Looked at the FAQs and answered a couple questions.

*7.Why do we see different colors when we look at the indicator light carefully?*

Because the K5 Pro uses two RGB lamps, and the yellow color is a mixture of red and green. Due to the difference in the material of the RGB lamps, it is normal for the individual colors to deviate.


*10.Do I need to install a driver to connect it with my computer?*

_Yes,  the device name is FiiO Q series._


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## Julius Decimus

mdyoung216 said:


> Looked at the FAQs and answered a couple questions.
> 
> *7.Why do we see different colors when we look at the indicator light carefully?*
> 
> ...



Ok, its good then.
Well, line out is better for speakers, but then you cannot use the volume control, as it only works for the front jack. If i am not mistaken. So you can try both, see how it is. And FAQ and manual helps, yes.

I am not expert, just generally not a lot of people look these old topics, and wanted to help in case nobody answers.
Read the manual, is important. The list with supported formats meybe will appear if you use the front jack. Again, not sure. But meybe thats why it says speakers in Windows, because they are connected to the line out.


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## mdyoung216

Julius Decimus said:


> Ok, its good then.
> Well, line out is better for speakers, but then you cannot use the volume control, as it only works for the front jack. If i am not mistaken. So you can try both, see how it is. And FAQ and manual helps, yes.
> 
> I am not expert, just generally not a lot of people look these old topics, and wanted to help in case nobody answers.
> Read the manual, is important. The list with supported formats meybe will appear if you use the front jack. Again, not sure. But meybe thats why it says speakers in Windows, because they are connected to the line out.


Thanks for trying to point me in the right direction.   I sent an e-mail to FiiO to ask if I have it set up right and why the computer lists it as speakers.  Main thing is the computer has sound.  I don't listen to music as much as I used to do, but since the E17 was getting a bit old I figured now was a good time to replace it before it died.


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## mdyoung216

Just to see how headphones sound and make sure the input works I hooked up my Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10 earbuds.  The input works and they sound pretty good.  Kind of hard to remember how they sounded with the E17 since as I said don't listen to music that often anymore. The Altec speakers have a remote so it was easy to turn them all the way down since when you turn up the volume for the earbuds the speakers go up too.   How do most people work the volume?  I have the computer and K5 both turned up half way.


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## Julius Decimus (Jan 17, 2021)

In general you want the volume to be controlled by the amplifier. So the computer at 100% (thats the volume in Windows control panel, not the one from your music playing program) and then the Fiio or the speakers at what you are comfortable with.

I wouldn't go above 75-80% of the Fiio. May get distortion. Same for speakers.

PC at 100, Fiio at 50-60% and then the speakers as loud as you want them. Seems fine to me.


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## mdyoung216

Thanks I'll give that a try and see how it sounds.


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