# Ecosse Cables - UK Made? Seems more like China Made...



## entrope

Heya all,
 I'm new to this forum and have wanted to make this post for quite some time, however due to my busy schedule I had only been able to get off my bum a moment ago and finally pen out this thread regarding Ecosse Cables.

 Allow me to begin with an E-Mail I had received from Ecosse. Back in December I had asked Ecosse where their cables were designed and manufactured and this was their response; "*Ecosse cables are designed and manufactured in our factory in uk. The materials are sourced from all over the world*" _(unedited quote)_.

 It is perfectly understandable to me that raw materials these days come from pretty much everywhere... so I have positive understanding towards any company which obtains raw materials from another country (China, for example) but does design, processing, assembly, etc, back in their factory wherever it may be (in the case of Ecosse, they claim it to be in the United Kingdom).

 However, I am beginning to have doubts with respect to the claims which have been made by Ecosse.

 Late last year I had purchased one of their newer speaker cables - the Ecosse MS4.7 Bi-Wire Speaker Cable (you may gather more details about this cable here and for your own reference you can access the main website for Ecosse here).

 Not long after my purchase of this over-1,000 US$ cable I had decided to do my own personal modifications to the cable as I found that their (Ecosse's) build quality of this particular cable was far from brilliant (this is the first time I ever had build quality issues with cables I had purchased from Ecosse). Part of what I wanted to do with the cable involved the removal of the main sheath which was covering the two cables within the bi-wire set, and this is when things started to get somewhat "interesting".






_(After I first cut the sheath open near the beginning of the cable)_

_Note that I do not have any photos of the cable prior to my cutting-up job as I was originally not expecting to take any. The surprises which I uncovered were what originally prompted me to take my camera out and start going happy on the shutter-release button  ..._

 The first thing I noticed was this; the blue bit at the right on the cable stopper which reads "NeoTech" was originally covered up with an Ecosse sticker, the NeoTech logo was only visible after the sticker was removed. NeoTech if memory serves me right is also a audio cable manufacturing company (based in Taiwan though) which also does "single crystal copper" cable, a cable processing technique also used by Ecosse (though Ecosse calls it "monocrystal").

 My first thoughts were, "Okay, it's just on the cable stopper... so maybe Ecosse had simply gotten their cable stoppers from NeoTech. Time to move on and see what else I can uncover..." - So this was when I decided to fully strip the outer sheath away from the full run of cable, and uncovered this:





_(Note the text "SGSCC-1" on the black cable)_

 I had then noticed that the black cable contained zero Ecosse branding. All it had was the text "SGSCC-1 SINGLE CRYSTAL COPPER - 99.999%"... Kinda odd I thought, since I've never bumped into a cable manufacturer who fails to include branding on their cables. So out of my curiosity I had fired up Google and started searching on the mystery "SGSCC-1" text which I found on the cable. Lo-and-Behold, a good number of China-based results were the first to show up on Google... and eventually, I stumbled into this link.

 -> *Description:* mono crystal Copper Wire
 -> *Model No.:* SGSCC-1 
 -> *Brand Name:* Everyoung 
 -> *Country of Origin:* China

 This has prompted me to believe that Ecosse pretty much doesn't even design nor manufacture their cables (or at least "some" of their cables) in-house back in the UK at all but rather just purchase their cables in bulk from Everyoung and slap some cheap sheath over the cable with "Ecosse" written on it. And as stated previously, the fact that the cable stoppers are branded as NeoTech doesn't exactly instill a lot more confidence either.

 By this time, I was a little ticked off that Ecosse may have possibly lied to me, so off I went to inspect the cable with a little more detail to reveal where the other olive coloured cable came from...





_(Yeah, at least this cable appears to be from Ecosse... though the wrong one)_

 If you had read the Ecosse literature about my MS4.7 speaker cable here you'd have noticed that Ecosse advertises the cable of comprising of both a stranded (Ecosse MS2.4) and solid core (MS2.15) cable. No-where was an Ecosse MS2.3 cable mentioned, but here I am looking at one on my table-top. I could only assume that the thick black Everyoung SGSCC-1 cable was meant to be Ecosse's so-called "MS2.4" cable, and therefore the olive cable _should_ have been a MS2.15 solid-core cable, but it wasn't... rather it was a MS2.3 stranded conductor cable.

 To confirm my doubts, I had actually cut open the two (both the black and olive) cables, and yes, both cables were stranded conductors, no solid-core cable as per Ecosse's cable literature was to be found (according to Ecosse; at least one of the two cables in the Ecosse MS4.7 Bi-Wire Speaker Cable set are supposed to have been a solid core conductor).

 So, lets come up with a short Ecosse Cable FAQ checklist now...

 -> *Ecosse cables designed in the UK?* Maybe, but unlikely.
 -> *Ecosse cables made in the UK?* Unlikely.
 -> *Ecosse cables made as per product literature?* Definitely not.

 The fact that the black cable (as visible in the second photo above) has "SGSCC-1" written on it (an Everyoung product) and absolutely no Ecosse branding on it simply makes the cable shout out "Made in China"... and this has caused my confidence in Ecosse Cables to crash down to the ocean floor.

 Does anyone share the same opinion as my self with regards to what I had uncovered? Feel free to share your opinions, I'd be more than interested to have a look at the point of view of others in this forum.


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## entrope

Here is an E-Mail conversation which was going on between my self and Ecosse. As you will notice after reading through the E-Mails going through, Ecosse seems to be completely ignorant with regards to my findings and on several occasions I had to repeat information highlighted in previous E-Mails.

 Eventually, they had stopped replying to me completely, leaving all my questions unanswered.

 So much for customer care...

_(The E-Mails are in chronological order._



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*(Me) to Ecosse 
 Dec 27*
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 Hello & good day!
 I'd just like to query on where the origin of manufacture for all Ecosse Cables are.

 Are Ecosse Cables all made in the UK? Or are some cables actually made away from the UK (e.g. Russia, Taiwan or China, etc).

 This is plainly to assist me in my next batch of purchase for Ecosse Cables.

 Thanks!


 Regards,
 (Me)
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*Ecosse to me 
 Dec 27*
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 Ecosse cables are designed and manufactured in our factory in uk. The materials are sourced from all over the world 


 Ecosse 

 Sent from Els iPhone
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*(Me) to Ecosse 
 Dec 27*
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 Hello & good day!
 Thank you for your response.

 The reason I'm asking is due to some doubts and confusion which have recently surfaced on my front with regards to Ecosse cables.

 Allow me to begin by mentioning that I have been a customer of Ecosse cables for some time and even own some Ecosse statement series cables (my primary setup uses the Soundman Pro, Myth Pro, SMS2.4 and Big Reds, and I also own and use the Symphony, Maestro, MS2.3, MS4.7 and Big Reds on other setups).

 Due to a change of requirements in one of my setups I have recently cut away the nylon sheath which covers my MS4.7 Bi-Wire cable in order to allow me to execute minor modifications to the cable.

 Upon investigation of the internals of the MS4.7 cable (after the removal of the nylon sheath) I was rather upset to find out that the MS4.7 cable was not exactly as described as per the description of the cable on the official webpage of Ecosse.

 Firstly, on the Ecosse webpage, the MS4.7 cable is described as being a "hybrid" Bi-Wire cable with both stranded (MS2.4) and solid core (MS2.15) conductors... this was not the case. My MS4.7 cable consisted of one MS2.3 (stranded) cable as well as one thick black cable containing no Ecosse branding on it (I can only assume this black cable is meant to be the MS2.4, which too is stranded).

 Secondly, as mentioned above, there is no Ecosse branding at all on the black cable inside my MS4.7 Bi-Wire cable set. Instead, I found text on it mentioning that the cable is of a model number "SGSCC-1".

 Thirdly, I had decided to search the mysterious model number of "SGSCC-1" on Google, and several sources revealed from my search indicated that it was a cable of Chinese origin from a manufacturer named "Everyoung".

 Fourthly, upon further investigation, I actually found out that Everyoung does actually manufacture "Monocrystal" cables (albeit named "Single Crystal Copper" rather than "Monocrystal").

 Based upon the results of my investigation, I can only assume that Ecosse had purchased from Everyoung the cables and had them rebranded. There are too many matching verdicts to declare this a coincidence in my opinion.

 I was rather displeased with my findings as I was always under the impression that all Ecosse cables were designed and made in the UK. I perfectly understand that raw materials do come from across the globe, however, as per my findings above I am only able to conclude that certainly some (or maybe even all?) Ecosse cables aren't even designed and made in the UK at all.

 I hope you are able to clarify this issue with me and enlighten me with any facts which I may have missed out.

 After all, I have been a loyal Ecosse customer and do own a rather expensive set of cables from Ecosse which I have in use for all my audio setups.

 Thank you kindly in advance for all assistance and explanations.


 With regards,
 (Me)
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*Ecosse to me 
 Dec 28*
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 Sir

 You seem to have taken a lot of time and effort in regards our cables. We are honoured that you have.

 However something is obviously bothering you and Im not quite sure what it is. Are you unhappy with the quality of our cables-do they upset your hifi system

 May I ask where you purchased our cables? Is the sound to your liking?


 Regards

 Ecosse
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*(Me) to Ecosse 
 Dec 28*
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 Hello & good day!
 I have already highlighted my issues in my previous E-Mail, kindly read it in detail shall you have any doubts with regards to my issues and if more information is required I would be more than happy to provide such information to you.

 All my cables are purchased from Alpha Audio (Singapore). I believe they are the only authorized distributor for Ecosse in Singapore.

 Thus far, I have had no issues with any of my Ecosse cables. As mentioned in my previous E-Mail however, I have had doubts with regards to my MS4.7 cable (after I had cut away the sheath covering the cable I had realized that the cable did not come as per Ecosse specification and one of the cables in the Bi-Wire set appears to have originated from China. Again, kindly read my previous E-Mail in detail for further elaboration).

 I was simply seeking clarity with regards to the origin of Ecosse cables. I have always been under the impression that Ecosse cables were designed and manufactured in the UK, however my MS4.7 cable proves otherwise.

 I shall also provide you with some photos of my findings once I get hold of my camera again (Monday).


 Regards,
 (Me)
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*Ecosse to me 
 Dec 28*
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 Sir

 We are pleased YOU are pleased with Ecosse Cables.

 As you can imagine certain info may be advantageous to our competitors and so the R&D of Ecosse is privileged information and we are not at liberty to disclose such

 Regards

 ECOSSE
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*(Me) to Ecosse 
 Dec 29*
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 To whom it may concern;
 This has got nothing to do with R&D right now.

 This has got more to do with the fact that Ecosse had sold me a product not as per the specifications and claims of Ecosse.

 Since this matter hasn't gone any further than it has prior to my initial E-Mail to Ecosse I shall proceed with the public disclosure of my findings (inclusive of this E-Mail conversation).


 Regards,
 (Me)
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## apatN

Wait. You cut your 1000$ just like that?


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## SleepyOne

That is bad and they even admitted that they source material globally.....I too was under the impression that they made the cable themselve rather than just repackage cables like smaller company lol... Thanks for giving the warning.


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## iriverdude

Only bought £90 RCA cable one time, after tha I only spend no more than £30 on a pair..it's all a swindle. Just bought a few sets of Mark Grant £16-£18 for shorter runs can't complain.


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## entrope

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait. You cut your 1000$ just like that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I sure did 

 Didn't bother me though... I felt that it was worth it in order to surface some truth about Ecosse... not just about their products, but also as a company as a whole.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SleepyOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is bad and they even admitted that they source material globally.....I too was under the impression that they made the cable themselve rather than just repackage cables like smaller company lol... Thanks for giving the warning._

 

I was under exactly the same impression (that everything was made and assembled in the UK)... now it seems that it simply isn't the case... and now it seems like it's time for me to start auditioning other cables and see which other cable manufacturer I can trust.

 To be honest though, Ecosse has some pretty decent cables. I however am not very fond of companies who are full of marketing lies.


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## apatN

^ I guess you are right. So any hope that you will get a replacement of some kind?
 If I were you though I'd contact either a head-fi sponsor or a local DIYer.


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## iriverdude

Quote:


 I however am not very fond of companies who are full of marketing lies. 
 

You're into the wrong hobby.


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## SleepyOne

I think he means misrepresentation. i.e. the cable should be made in UK and not some brought in from Taiwan...


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## iriverdude

^What they're doing is the same as everybody else, ie you import something which is 95% complete, finish it off in the UK, repackage it and it's suddenly "Made in the UK"


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## SleepyOne

Not necessarily, on their site they show machine that make copper cable....so we assume they manufacture the cable themselve, and not just assemble.

 Some of the bigger players do make their own cable.


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## Dr. Strangelove

Hey guys, we should create a Headfi brand of audio cable... we will re-package some belden cable... put it in some techflex with heatshrink... put on custom labels... mark it up to 1000 USD... and boom! Stax Omega 2s for all after a year!

 We will advertise that it "improves low end texture" and creates "a fun sound" which "brings out the maple syrup in the midrange". Of course we will provide no proof because as we know, the human ear is the most error free non biased source of audio measurement and interpretation ever to grace this space rock. Our customers will write glowing reviews containing at least 10 abstract descriptor words, 4 analogies, and 2 orgasmic experiences (all done after the full 1000 hour burn in because as we all know... the electrons need to build up some steam before they can operate at their best haha). No self respecting audiophile would dare use a scientific method to prove the cable improves performance because that would be blasphemous to the all mighty ear! Which coincidentally helps keep us in the clear.

 A fool proof plan I tell ya!



 Oh wait...



 There is too much competition : (


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## iriverdude

Just charge £50,000 for a 50cm RCA lead, advertise it with a Bose Lifestyle and you'll be beating customers off with a stick.


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## SleepyOne

To follow the trend I would use the cheapest bell wire I can find and dressed it up so that it is mega thick, give it nice plugs and some nice deco and lol and behold we have one ultra sonic mega linear "transconductor" at a special discount for all member at only $1999.99.

 And in order to "help" the masses, we will also do a few "lower" range models ($999.99 & $499.99), which is basically the same wire but we remove a few things here and there (like decos). Of course we will make sure it sounds worst, whatever it takes.....


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## iriverdude

Quote:


 Of course we will make sure it sounds worst, whatever it takes.. 
 

Inline resistor on the plug end (glued course so you can't open it) :-D


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## SleepyOne

Of course...it would void all warranty...


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## Currawong

They can say they manufacture it in the UK with parts sourced elsewhere. "Manufacturing" can mean soldering the plugs to the wires and putting on the sheath. I think the OP is confusing the manufacture of the internal wire to manufacturing the cable. And yes, you could probably make the same cable yourself quite cheaply.


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## SleepyOne

I think this is what confuses us:

CABLE INFO

 See point 4.


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## entrope

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apatN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ I guess you are right. So any hope that you will get a replacement of some kind?
 If I were you though I'd contact either a head-fi sponsor or a local DIYer._

 

I doubt I'll get any kind of replacement from Ecosse. If anything they are likely not be very fond of me for writing this thread... and anyhow I didn't really do it for anything other than to reveal some truth about Ecosse  ... as for the cable it self, it's been in the dumpster long ago since I didn't really have much use for it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're into the wrong hobby._

 

Haha. There are some brands worth trusting though (; ... my Transport, DAC and Amp for instance are from Musical Fidelity, and they at least have the guts to admit that their products are made in Taiwan (albeit designed in the UK).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SleepyOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not necessarily, on their site they show machine that make copper cable....so we assume they manufacture the cable themselve, and not just assemble.

 Some of the bigger players do make their own cable._

 

Yeah, I guess that is the bit that causes most confusion. If you read the whole of the Ecosse website, even though they don't directly mention it, all their photos of equipment and manufacturing makes one assume that Ecosse are the ones manufacturing their own cables from the grounds up.


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## AudioCats

what make you think Musical Fidelity is actually designed in the UK?


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## dura

I can easily hear in my systems that cables can make a difference, but could never see the reason for the existence of very expensive cables, drawing the line with my Kimber Silver Streak/8TC combo.


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## SleepyOne

I personally would choose cables based on ones equiments. Better equiments will be able to pick up more details and be able to discern benefit/weakness/difference from cables better. And of course everything must be justified by listening.

 AudioCats - good point


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## entrope

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioCats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what make you think Musical Fidelity is actually designed in the UK?_

 

Fair statement 

 I did however call up Musical Fidelity in the past via their UK number and had a chat with two of their engineers in the past when I had a couple of questions with regards to their products... and for anyone who has ever tried to call MF up, you'll realize it can be a bit of a pain because they only accept calls two hours per day just after their UK lunch time (between 1PM and 3PM, GMT).

 So at least that gives me some reason to believe that at least some of their engineers who design their products are UK based if not all.

 With Ecosse on the other hand, everything I am able to find out about the company goes against them doing anything in the UK other than re-branding.


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## gotchaforce

this is pretty much the story with all cable companies... sorry you had to learn about it the hard way OP.

 think about it, anyone on head-fi can go into making cables... there is no design needed or engineering needed WHAT SO EVER. you just assemble a cable, make it work, make it look pretty, and then you market it. i myself have done lots of DIY (and yes i buy big cables and shiny connectors and techflex even though it doesnt improve the sound quality, but i know im doing it for the sake of aesthetics and not some higher sound thats achieved by this), and i know what goes into making a cable, basically nothing. theres no need to actually have design or measurements, as thats not how cables "work", peoples ears (and minds) will do the "this sounds good" part for you.

 seriously just compare how out of reach designing a DAC, or an amp, or a cd player, or a pair of headphones, is for the average person, and then look at the simplicity of cables. thats why theres a new "boutique" cable company popping up every week and the cables are made on some guys desk.


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## QQQ

All cables are made on same group of facilities in Asia. Get real.


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## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *QQQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All cables are made on same group of facilities in Asia. Get real._

 

what are you replying to exactly, quoting a post would help. if youre talking about my "made on a guys desk" statement well im not sure why im the one that needs to get real. lots of cable that head-fi users buy are made in some dudes home... or something like a garage (in the case of virtual dynamics). for every company out there thats as big as audioquest, or cardas, or nordost, there is a VERY VERY small company that buys cable from the big manufacturers like canare, mogami, or possibly even silver cables from company like HGA, then dress them up real nice and slap a hand written label on it. These "small companies" are usually a couple of guys, or one guy, working in his home.


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## Hifidoc

Hello,
  sorry for my poor english.
  First of all, there are also OTHER manufacturers in the UK and around the world that uses for their expensive products cheap bulk cables from NeoTech (Taiwan).
  These manufacturers nowadays are fascinated by the OCC (or Monocrystal) Copper or Silver (like AudioQuest to) for their "original" (renamed
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 products. The original Neotech bulk cables are relatively unexpensive, and they can be find all around the world. It's MUUUCH cheaper tu buy some bulk cables, quality terminations (like WBT or Eichmann), some silver solder and heatshrink. With a 30 minute of hard labour (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) you can finish your own cable, and save more than 50% of your money.
  A few examples to save money:
   
   
  http://www.mw-audio.de/pi762398543.htm?categoryId=201
   
  http://www.vhaudio.com/wire.html
   
  http://kacsa-audio.hu/webshop/neotech.b.3/neotech.b.3/kabel.c.154/


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## endless402

you guys do know that there are only so many places that you can source copper, let alone copper with a certain level of purity.
  everyone buys from a limited number of producers


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## TheAttorney

Quote: 





gotchaforce said:


> this is pretty much the story with all cable companies... sorry you had to learn about it the hard way OP.


 
  Sadly, this is pretty much the same with everything we buy. Branding and globalisation applies to all walks of life.
  Say you're comparing a budget washing machine with a posh German "imported" brand and decide to spend more on quality. Well, irrespective of whether that extra money was worth it or not, the two machines probably came from the same factory.
   
  Say you're looking at a chicken & vegetable pie and it's got a union jack on the packaging, plus a picture of a happy free roaming chicken, plus a Made-In-England sticker.
  Chances are, the chicken came from a factory farm in Holland, the vegetables from half way round the world, and the only thing that happened in England was that the pie was put in a box, maybe pre-heated as well. If you're really lucky, the ingredients will may been mixed by an  English person.
   
  And don't get me started about branded designer clothing! But it's within the rules, even if we don't like it.
   
  Within that context, and from a brief look at their website, Ecosse haven't broken any laws. They haven't lied and they haven't behaved any worse than most other cable companies, or most other companies period. Their "factory tour" shows examples of people and equipment that assemble cables. There is no evidence that they actually draw their own wire. And as far as I can tell, nobody is complaining about their quality.
   
  What they _have _been guilty of, is of successfully convincing entrope that the whole aspect of cable production has been done in-house in a cosy British (Scottish?), no nonsense kind of way.
 That cosy image has at least partly contributed to entrope becoming a repeat buyer.
   
  But if you get angry about that, then prepare to get angry about everything else. It's how the world is in these globally competitive times. We want the romance, but we, in general, don't want to pay for it - and it's Marketing that fills the gap. There _are _companies that truly do manufacture in-house, but you have to study the wording very carefully to spot the difference.


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## endless402

if you like the sound of it, then it has achieved its goal


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