# [FiiO BTR5/FiiO BTR5 2021] Flagship Portable High-Fidelity Bluetooth Amplifier, Bluetooth chip CSR8675, support up to 384kHz&DSD256 native



## FiiO

1. High Performance DAC ES9218P*2

2. Flagship Bluetooth chip CSR8675

3. FPGA clock management，dual independent crystal oscillators

4. Bluetooth 5.0 with full format support

5. Independent control chip XMOS XUF208

6. USB DAC supporting up to 384kHz/DSD256 native

7. Double-sided 2.5D glass with OLED display

8. 3.5mm+2.5mm headphone outputs

9. Intelligent control with FiiO Music app

10. One-touch NFC pairing


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## hellfire8888

crap i just bought the btr3


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## alexwise

Is this MFi?


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## Mlaihk

Available now?  Taobao?


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## ClieOS

alexwise said:


> Is this MFi?



No MFi on the USB DAC, and you don't need MFi for Bluetooth since it is a common standard.



Mlaihk said:


> Available now?  Taobao?



First batch already sold out in China, I believe the second batch comes later this month.






This is an excellent pairing - BTR5 with Smabat M1 Pro in balanced.


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## digititus

ClieOS said:


> This is an excellent pairing - BTR5 with Smabat M1 Pro in balanced.


Also enjoying the M1 Pro, but finding them a little limited in volume output and ability to render deep bass sounds (dub). Besides that, lovely sounding buds.


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## Lopsy1 (Nov 3, 2019)

Love it with my Noble K10 balanced.


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## FiiO




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## Mlaihk

FiiO said:


>


Is it available now?  I mean the 2nd batch.


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## FiiO

alexwise said:


> Is this MFi?


Dear friend,

No. The BTR5 does not have MFI. But theoretically, if you would like to use the BTR5 as the USB DAC, you could connect the ios device with the BTR5 via the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK) ，with BTR5 charge option in off status. 

Best regards


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## FiiO

Mlaihk said:


> Is it available now?  I mean the 2nd batch.


Not yet!

Best regards


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## p50kombi

@FiiO is it possible for you to post here when there's a firmware update or support app update?
I am very keen to get the on board equaliser working on LDAC and USB and hoping you will release a firmware update soon which fixes these issues.
I am currently on firmware version v1.0.1 and support app version 1.0


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## digititus

p50kombi said:


> @FiiO
> I am very keen to get the on board equaliser working on LDAC and USB and hoping you will release a firmware update soon which fixes these issues.


There is nothing to fix. The device probably doesn't have the processing power to EQ high bit rate data streams like LDAC


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## p50kombi

digititus said:


> There is nothing to fix. The device probably doesn't have the processing power to EQ high bit rate data streams like LDAC



hmm, if that's true I might return it.
They should make that clear on their product page, as at the moment they advertise it as having an equaliser, they should make it clear it doesn't work on LDAC or when using as an USB DAC.
The radsone es100 has no problem with this on LDAC, I would think the BTR5 has equal or higher processing power.
Would love an official statement from @FiiO on this though.


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## digititus

p50kombi said:


> hmm, if that's true I might return it.
> They should make that clear on their product page, as at the moment they advertise it as having an equaliser, they should make it clear it doesn't work on LDAC or when using as an USB DAC.
> The radsone es100 has no problem with this on LDAC, I would think the BTR5 has equal or higher processing power.
> Would love an official statement from @FiiO on this though.


The Equalizer only works when streaming in the SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX-HD and HWA(48kHz or lower) codec. It does not work for the LDAC codec. And for HWA 96kHz, it's suggested to turn off EQ, otherwise there might be noise.

BTR3 firmware info


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## p50kombi

yeah, btr3, the btr5 is their new product and is marketed as the next step up, so one would assume the information of a different device does not apply


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## digititus

p50kombi said:


> yeah, btr3, the btr5 is their new product and is marketed as the next step up, so one would assume the information of a different device does not apply


Just pointing out that Fiio has never said LDAC eq would work on any of their products, whilst you are saying that this is a bug. It isn't, it is a feature


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## p50kombi

digititus said:


> Just pointing out that Fiio has never said LDAC eq would work on any of their products, whilst you are saying that this is a bug. It isn't, it is a feature



I understand what you're saying, but I don't own a btr3, nor did I look up what the btr3 can or can't do.
The btr5 product page clearly states it does have a 10 band equaliser, no asterisks stating it doesn't work in ldac or usb mode 
So from my point of view, I never knew it wouldn't be able to work on LDAC or USB, don't get why it would be a feature in your eyes.


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## FiiO (Nov 5, 2019)

p50kombi said:


> @FiiO is it possible for you to post here when there's a firmware update or support app update?
> I am very keen to get the on board equaliser working on LDAC and USB and hoping you will release a firmware update soon which fixes these issues.
> I am currently on firmware version v1.0.1 and support app version 1.0


Dear friend,

It is not a issue to be fixed. Since the audio processing process of LDAC is more special than other Bluetooth formats, we are still doing related debugging, and strive to achieve the same effect as other Bluetooth formats, but it will take a certain amount of time. And we did not mention the EQ will support in USB DAC mode in other devices as well.

Best regards


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## FiiO




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## p50kombi (Nov 5, 2019)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> It is not a issue to be fixed. Since the audio processing process of LDAC is more special than other Bluetooth formats, we are still doing related debugging, and strive to achieve the same effect as other Bluetooth formats, but it will take a certain amount of time. And we did not mention the EQ will support in USB DAC mode.
> 
> Best regards



please see the post above yours, it clearly states you have a 10 band equaliser, nowhere does it mention it won't work on ldac or usb.
You should make this clear for potential buyers.
I still can't get an answer whether you will support the eq over ldac in future, so I think I'll be returning my btr5.
It's a simple question which I feel keeps being avoided by telling me your debugging.
Don't really get what that is supposed to tell me.


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## ClieOS (Nov 5, 2019)

Regarding EQ over USB DAC - since a person must be using either a PC or smartphone as source, I would think using EQ on the source would be just as easy (and probably more advanced than what is on the BTR5) and shouldn't be much of an issue for most. For example EQ on apps like Neutron or UAPP is well beyond the capability of FiiO's own app.

My guess is the built-in EQ function is likely implemented using the DSP function inside the BT chip, which is not used when it is in USB DAC mode (which only required the XMOS and ES9218P to work) and thus it is probably unavailable on the hardware level.


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## p50kombi

ClieOS said:


> Regarding EQ over USB DAC - since a person must be using either a PC or smartphone as source, I would think using EQ on the source would be just as easy (and probably more advanced than what is on the BTR5) and shouldn't be much of an issue for most. For example EQ on apps like Neutron or UAPP is well beyond the capability of FiiO's own app.
> 
> My guess is the built-in EQ function is likely implemented using the DSP function inside the BT chip, which is not used when it is in USB DAC mode (which only required the XMOS and ES9218P to work) and thus it is probably unavailable on the hardware level.




yeah, the btr5 has potential but for now I think I might stick with the es100 till the qudelix lands.
The app on the radsone just edges the scales in favour for me and I made a promise to myself not to keep both 
Going to miss it, but will return it. 

Thanks for all your helpful posts guys, much appreciated, see you on the forum elsewhere :-D


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## digititus

p50kombi said:


> yeah, the btr5 has potential but for now I think I might stick with the es100 till the qudelix lands.
> The app on the radsone just edges the scales in favour for me and I made a promise to myself not to keep both
> Going to miss it, but will return it.
> 
> Thanks for all your helpful posts guys, much appreciated, see you on the forum elsewhere :-D


How do you have a BTR5? In China?


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## p50kombi

digititus said:


> How do you have a BTR5? In China?



I pre-ordered it months ago as I thought the specs sounded great.
It got delivered to me in the UK about a week ago.
So they shipped me a first batch one, it's gone now though just posted it


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## digititus

p50kombi said:


> I pre-ordered it months ago as I thought the specs sounded great.
> It got delivered to me in the UK about a week ago.
> So they shipped me a first batch one, it's gone now though just posted it


Oh. Very nice of Fiio! Did you pre-order direct with Fiio on AliExpress?


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## p50kombi

digititus said:


> Oh. Very nice of Fiio! Did you pre-order direct with Fiio on AliExpress?


no I didn't, it was hifigo


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## digititus

p50kombi said:


> no I didn't, it was hifigo


Ok. Thanks. Good for future reference.


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## ClieOS

p50kombi said:


> yeah, the btr5 has potential but for now I think I might stick with the es100 till the qudelix lands.
> The app on the radsone just edges the scales in favour for me and I made a promise to myself not to keep both
> Going to miss it, but will return it.
> 
> Thanks for all your helpful posts guys, much appreciated, see you on the forum elsewhere :-D



Besides the fact the EQ isn't working on LDAC, I actually like the app on FiiO better than that of Radsone I don't use EQ in general so whether it works on LDAC or not is not a big concern for me, but all the extra filters / clock / distortion setting is a big plus as they offer much finer control over texture / tonal balance that what ES100 can offer.

Also I like the balanced output on the BTR5 just a little over than of ES100, especially when pairing with a pair of neutral headphone.


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## Hanesu

p50kombi said:


> yeah, the btr5 has potential but for now I think I might stick with the es100 till the qudelix lands.
> The app on the radsone just edges the scales in favour for me and I made a promise to myself not to keep both
> Going to miss it, but will return it.
> 
> Thanks for all your helpful posts guys, much appreciated, see you on the forum elsewhere :-D



Besides functionality, could you detect bigger sound differences between the two?


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## davedm

@FiiO No support for LDHC/HWA? Anything planned via firmware update in future?


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## ClieOS

davedm said:


> @FiiO No support for LDHC/HWA? Anything planned via firmware update in future?



This is on FiiO's BTR5 FAQ (Chinese side):



> *23.BTR5支不支持HWA（LHDC）？*
> 不支持。 HWA自从推出以来，音质得到了很多国内用户的认可，飞傲的BTR3作为市面上最早较完美支持HWA的接收的产品，一经推出得到了受到了消费者的喜爱和欢迎，但是也遇到了一些我们自身暂时解决不了的问题。包括：
> 1，HWA作为最新的技术，暂时在连接可靠性上不如LDAC, aptX编码；
> 
> ...



Rough translation:
23. Is BTR5 not supporting HWA(LHDC)?
Yes, it is not support. Since HWA's launch, FiiO BTR3 was one of the first BT receiver to provide relative full support of the codec and has received positive feedback from the customer. However, there are also a few issues that can't be solved by FiiO alone, such as:

1. As a fairly new tech, HWA doesn't currently provide as reliable a connection as other codec such as LDAC and aptX

2. The availability and usage of HWA supporting gears are limited, especially outside of China.

3. CSR8675 has limited internal ROM, especially after upgrading to BT5.0 where BLE function (app control) requires more memory. If we put in HWA codec, it will further limit the space in ROM and restrict other functions (this is the main reason for BTR5).

4. Huawei as main developer of HWA, has announced that they are planning to update HWA in the near future. Once updated, the new HWA codec will not be compatible with the old HWA codec. Thus even Huawei has stop supporting HWA on their newer smartphone.


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## FiiO




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## FiiO




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## ClieOS (Nov 7, 2019)

Those who already owns the BTR5, note that the firmware has been updated to v1.02.

You can download BTR5's firmware here: https://bbs.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201910281104318430028&tid=16

If you read Chinese, the firmware upgrade process is explained here: https://bbs.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201910182344172854175

For those of you who don't read Chinese, here is a rough guide:
1) Download and unzip the filmware file
2) Set the BTR5 into DFU mode: First, turn BTR5 on. Then press and hold the play/pause button for 5 seconds till it goes into 'pairing'mode. Now press and hold both Volume+ and play/pause buttons until the screen went off - your BTR5 should be in DFU mode now, so plug it into the PC now.
3) Inside the unzipped folder, run the *FiiOBluetoothDfu.exe*, click to start upgrading.
4) If the program shows that it didn't detect any device, you need to unplug your BTR% and repeat step 2.
5) If the program detects your BTR5, follows the instruction to upgrade the firmware.
6) Done. Upplug your BTR5, turn it on and check the setting to see the current version.


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## digititus

ClieOS said:


> Those who already owns the BTR5, note that the firmware has been updated to v1.02.
> 
> You can download BTR5's firmware here: https://bbs.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201910281104318430028&tid=16
> 
> ...


Fiio should think about incorporating firmware updates into the Fiio App. Not everyone has access to a Windows box.


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## ClieOS

digititus said:


> Fiio should think about incorporating firmware updates into the Fiio App. Not everyone has access to a Windows box.



I won't hold my breath for it.


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## digititus

ClieOS said:


> I won't hold my breath for it.


Yes, I know. Shanling has the same update process.


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## FiiO




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## FiiO

digititus said:


> Fiio should think about incorporating firmware updates into the Fiio App. Not everyone has access to a Windows box.


Dear friend,

Thanks for your kind feedback and we will also report to the engineer about that. The OTA update via app may take a long time. So we do not consider about that currently. 

Best regards


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## Hanesu

Hi Fiio! How many sources can the BTR5 remember? I am still wishing for an easy switch between sources like the Apple Airpods can do....


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## revand

p50kombi said:


> no I didn't, it was hifigo



The price of BTR5 is an enigma for me.
HIFIGO sold the BTR5 for USD 140 (stating that this is a discounted price), however I can see this official Fiio page:
https://www.fiio.com/btr5
At the end of the detailed comparison table it is clearly stated that Fiio sells the BTR5 for USD 110 !!!
May I ask Fiio to clearly inform us (living in Europe) how much does the BTR5 cost if it will be available for European distributors?

Many thanks!


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## ClieOS

revand said:


> The price of BTR5 is an enigma for me.
> HIFIGO sold the BTR5 for USD 140 (stating that this is a discounted price), however I can see this official Fiio page:
> https://www.fiio.com/btr5
> At the end of the detailed comparison table it is clearly stated that Fiio sells the BTR5 for USD 110 !!!
> ...



The official Taobao price is about US$99. Given you guys in EU have to pay VAT, so somewhere in the ballpark of $120?

Is HiFiGo even an official distributor? If not, they don't have to follow FiiO price guidelines.


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## revand

nappoler said:


> I think the official price of BTR5 will be $109 or €109， maybe $119 or €119, so I think the price of $139 (about €126) is OK, HiFiGo is free shipping to the world.



Many thanks
I do not have a problem with asking more than the official price, however I could see on Amazon.com a silly price for an Ibasso DC-01 audio adapter: USD 480!!!
I bought mine from Penon Audio paying USD 53. What a difference! Delivered from Asia to Hungary within 9 days!!!!
For EUR 109 BTR5 is a must have device. 
I have both BTR3 and the even better Hiby W5, but it seems to me that BTR5 will be the best Bluetooth music player.
Why? Because it has balanced out option. I am now trying the Ibasso DC01 which is an excellent audio adapter for the money and with it's balanced out it gives more naturalness to the music.


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## FiiO




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## nishan99

Wow great but how can I buy it? other than hifigo? like amazon or aliexpress.


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## FiiO

Hanesu said:


> Hi Fiio! How many sources can the BTR5 remember? I am still wishing for an easy switch between sources like the Apple Airpods can do....


Dear friend,

8 devices.

Best regards


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## Hanesu

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> 8 devices.
> 
> Best regards



Nice! Does it auto connect with all available sources at the same time or the device that was used last time?


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## TooPoorForHiFi

Damn that Battery life seems pretty awful, I thought that 9 Hours was for 2.5


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## Chris Kaoss

Are the build in microphones isolated from the housing?

That was the most annoying part on the ES100 for me while using the ambient mode on them.
The use of ambient mode while listening to music is a great benefit at work.
But the scratching noise of the housing is odd.

Does the btr5 has similar function with mics?

Thank you for an answer.


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## heps15

Received my BTR5 the other day, ordered through official store on AliExpress ($139.99 + import tax).

Overall really happy with it. Much richer sound than BTR3, although not quite as portable - I had my BTR3 clipped to my belt but the BTR5 with its provided case and clip is far too chunky.

Are there any cases (e.g. silicon or leather like on BTR3) available yet?

Also, re. inline microphone passthrough, is this enabled automatically if I connect a headset with mic? Would be nice to have an option in the menu.

Another request would be passthrough of play / pause button on the BTR5 when connected to a phone or laptop in USB DAC mode.

Good work guys!


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## heps15

ClieOS said:


> Those who already owns the BTR5, note that the firmware has been updated to v1.02.
> 
> You can download BTR5's firmware here: https://bbs.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201910281104318430028&tid=16
> 
> ...




Thanks for this. Are there any changelogs available?


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## ClieOS

heps15 said:


> Thanks for this. Are there any changelogs available?



v1.01 is just mainly bug-fix and stability improvement

v1.02
1. Mic volume adjustment added in app
2. Headset mic+remote functions added
3. Fixed BT still has sound when USB DAC is in use.
4. Fixed battery display sync issue
5. Fixed random no-output after using WeChat during music playback
6. Optimized volume during communication
7. Other minor optimization.


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## Lopsy1

heps15 said:


> Received my BTR5 the other day, ordered through official store on AliExpress ($139.99 + import tax).
> 
> Overall really happy with it. Much richer sound than BTR3, although not quite as portable - I had my BTR3 clipped to my belt but the BTR5 with its provided case and clip is far too chunky.
> 
> ...


Original leather case from Fiio is available, I use it with my one. Inline mic is enable automatically, I can't see option in menu. 
Beautiful and great sounding device. I agree, it is bigger than my Btr3, but it doesn't bother me any more.


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## heps15

Lopsy1 said:


> Original leather case from Fiio is available, I use it with my one. Inline mic is enable automatically, I can't see option in menu.
> Beautiful and great sounding device. I agree, it is bigger than my Btr3, but it doesn't bother me any more.



Nice one, do you know where I can purchase the case? Can't seem to find it...


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## Lopsy1

heps15 said:


> Nice one, do you know where I can purchase the case? Can't seem to find it...


I bought it from Hifigo, great online store and excellent service.


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## heps15

Lopsy1 said:


> I bought it from Hifigo, great online store and excellent service.



Thanks, much appreciated. I'll keep an eye on the stock. Looks like it's not currently available...BTR5 works just the same either way


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## Lopsy1

heps15 said:


> Thanks, much appreciated. I'll keep an eye on the stock. Looks like it's not currently available...BTR5 works just the same either way


Yes, it seems like they are out of stock. It's really nice and good quality case and it's not expensive. Worth every penny.


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## heps15

Another item I'm looking for is a right-angle OTG, like the Fiio CL06, although USB C to USB C.

Are there any technical restrictions to this (i.e. host function)?

I found a straight option generic on Amazon... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01LONPUM4/


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## FiiO

Hanesu said:


> Nice! Does it auto connect with all available sources at the same time or the device that was used last time?


Dear friend,

It could connect to 2 devices at the same time. But it could remember 8 sources it was connected to.

Best regards


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## Marco Angel

Ok guys, I'm here just to see how btr5 evolved and compares to my es100
I use the ldac codec and adjust a little he bass via its eq. Also loves how the eq settings is stored in the device and of course, how clear and unprocessed sounds, at least to my shure se846.

Hopefully this btr5 surpasses the es100 not only in power but in quality, usefull features, and maybe in battery life (ldac + 2.5 balanced)
Happy listening


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## FiiO

revand said:


> May I ask Fiio to clearly inform us (living in Europe) how much does the BTR5 cost if it will be available for European distributors?



Dear friend,

The MAP in Europe is 119.99EUR.

Best regards


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## FiiO

Chris Kaoss said:


> Are the build in microphones isolated from the housing?
> 
> That was the most annoying part on the ES100 for me while using the ambient mode on them.
> The use of ambient mode while listening to music is a great benefit at work.
> ...


Dear friend,

The BTR5 doesn't have environment mode.

Best regards


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## FiiO




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## TooPoorForHiFi

... waiting... for... US... Release...


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## FiiO




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## Sisyphus

When can we actually buy this?


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## Jayden16

Eagerly awaiting the release in Australia


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## archy121 (Nov 13, 2019)

FiiO said:


> 1. High Performance DAC ES9218P*2
> 
> 2. Flagship Bluetooth chip CSR8675
> 
> ...




@FiiO 

Any chance of seeing MQA Audio support added in the future ? 

This would be the killer feature that would lift it completely above competition. 

Still waiting on a proper BTR5 review. 
Hopefully some owners on her can put a post together with possible comparisons against likes of ES100, BTR3, iPhone and Android (LG DAC)

I presently use LG V30 as my source and curious how BTR5 will compare when connected to it using USB C. This phone also uses an ES DAC but has no balance out.


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## FiiO

archy121 said:


> @FiiO
> 
> Any chance of seeing MQA Audio support added in the future ?
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

We will report your feedback to the engineer. But we are not sure whether the MQA Audio support could added in the future or not.

Best regards


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## FiiO




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## Marco Angel

@FiiO when the EQ in ldac codec? Any date?


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## FiiO

Dear friend,
Since the audio processing process of LDAC is more special than other Bluetooth formats, we are still doing related debugging, and strive to achieve the same effect as other Bluetooth formats, but it will take a certain amount of time.

Best regards


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## ClieOS (Nov 14, 2019)

archy121 said:


> Any chance of seeing MQA Audio support added in the future ?



If you want MQA support on USB DAC mode, actually using UAPP will give you that. However, MQA over Bluetooth is kinda unpractical.

MQA is not a BT codec, so whenever you listen to to MQA music, the music will first being decoded by the app / program on the smartphone / PC to PCM, then it will be re-encoded to one of the BT codec (SBC / AAC / aptX / aptX HD / LDAC, depends on what your smartphone / PC is supported) and send to BTR5, then it will be re-decoded back to PCM and send to the DAC chip to turn into analog sound. The issue is that the communication between your smartphone / PC to the BTR5 has to be one of the BT codec, and none of them support MQA and none of them are true lossless (*LDAC will resample on default). So even though. you can play MQA on the smartphone / PC, eventually the extra detail from the MQA is likely going to be lost when it is sent over BT via BT codec. Until some Qualcomm included MQA into future apyX version or Sony update LDAC to be compatible with MQA, there is really noting much I think FiiO can do about it.


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## PochoLaPantera

When it will be  in the AliExpress official store? I wanna buy it!


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## PochoLaPantera

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> Since the audio processing process of LDAC is more special than other Bluetooth formats, we are still doing related debugging, and strive to achieve the same effect as other Bluetooth formats, but it will take a certain amount of time.
> 
> Best regards


I have a question? If I use a fiio M11 Pro like a Bluetooth transmitter to an in-ear(aptx hd) and a fiio m5 like a Bluetooth transmitter to a an In-ear(aptx hd) I want to know if the sound in the tws it will be the same? The best dac in the fiio m11 pro compared to the fiio m6 dac and with the codec aptx hd I will be available to hear any difference between the best dac of the m11 pro and the m6? Thanks.


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## petry

PochoLaPantera said:


> I have a question? If I use a fiio M11 Pro like a Bluetooth transmitter to an in-ear(aptx hd) and a fiio m5 like a Bluetooth transmitter to a an In-ear(aptx hd) I want to know if the sound in the tws it will be the same? The best dac in the fiio m11 pro compared to the fiio m6 dac and with the codec aptx hd I will be available to hear any difference between the best dac of the m11 pro and the m6? Thanks.



The DAC in your source is not used while streaming to BT IEMs/headphones. Digital to analog conversion is handled by the DAC in your IEMs/headphones. As long as you’re using the same BT codec, audio quality depends only on your IEMs/headphones and source audio file.
So, considering the above, your tws will sound the same with M5 as with M11 Pro.


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## PochoLaPantera

petry said:


> The DAC in your source is not used while streaming to BT IEMs/headphones. Digital to analog conversion is handled by the DAC in your IEMs/headphones. As long as you’re using the same BT codec, audio quality depends only on your IEMs/headphones and source audio file.
> So, considering the above, your tws will sound the same with M5 as with M11 Pro.


Thanks!


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## archy121 (Nov 15, 2019)

ClieOS said:


> If you want MQA support on USB DAC mode, actually using UAPP will give you that. However, MQA over Bluetooth is kinda unpractical...



I was referring to using BTR5 in DAC mode connected via cable and doing Hardware unfolding of MQA and not dependent on the software media player.

For me the key tangible benefits of going from BTR3 to BTR5 are the battery, 2.5mm jack and lastly but very importantly DAC mode over cable that supports DSD256 & 384Khz.
With so much going for the BTR5, it seems a shame  that MQA unfolding is not available to make it a  complete formidable offering.
MQA offering is becoming a standard feature for new portable DACs.

The well known Dragonfly Red/Black DACs had hardware unfolding added at a later date through firmware. The BTR5 could steal their market if FIIO can also offer the same through firmware upgrade. 
It would win in both wireless and wired offering.


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## digititus

archy121 said:


> I was referring to using BTR5 in DAC mode connected via cable and doing Hardware unfolding of MQA and not dependent on the software media player.
> 
> For me the key tangible benefits of going from BTR3 to BTR5 are the battery, 2.5mm jack and lastly but very importantly DAC mode over cable that supports DSD256 & 384Khz.
> With so much going for the BTR5, it seems a shame  that MQA unfolding is not available to make it a  complete formidable offering.
> ...


Licensing costs for questionable tech. No thanks. I'm happy for Fiio not to include MQA and keep the pricing down.


----------



## ClieOS

archy121 said:


> I was referring to using BTR5 in DAC mode connected via cable and doing Hardware unfolding of MQA and not dependent on the software media player.
> 
> For me the key tangible benefits of going from BTR3 to BTR5 are the battery, 2.5mm jack and lastly but very importantly DAC mode over cable that supports DSD256 & 384Khz.
> With so much going for the BTR5, it seems a shame  that MQA unfolding is not available to make it a  complete formidable offering.
> ...





digititus said:


> Licensing costs for questionable tech. No thanks. I'm happy for Fiio not to include MQA and keep the pricing down.



First, I won't personally mind FiiO adding MQA support to BTR5, but it should only be the case if it doesn't compromise other functions.  FiiO already stated that the memory is so limited in BTR5 that they have to drop the support of HWA in order to keep other function available. So whether there is enough memory left for processing MQA or have other hidden cost is still a big unknown. Secondly, I think BTR5 still have great many places in the firmware needed bugfixing / improvement, adding a new feature should not take priority. Lastly, I agree with @digititus that MQA is a fairly questionable tech on its own. I have certainly never saw any white paper with measurement that conclusively proven the MQA really gives better SQ


----------



## archy121 (Nov 16, 2019)

digititus said:


> Licensing costs for questionable tech. No thanks. I'm happy for Fiio not to include MQA and keep the pricing down.



As mentioned the Dragonfly DACs had a free firmware upgrade later on their life to add MQA so maybe it’s not that expensive to implement at hardware level. Even the budget end DACs like new  Ztella will be offering MQA at around $70. It was a ridiculous $55 on startup. Maybe the MQA costs are put on the streaming service provider or subscribers  instead.

As for dubious tech - my ears tell me otherwise and I don’t need a white paper to convince me.
To be able able to stream Master MQA tracks on the go is quite incredible and there is no going back to none MQA once experienced.   We can also put the increasing streaming Tidal subscription is down to people experiencing the benefits of MQA Audio.
China’s Alibaba streaming service Xiami will also be using MQA.


----------



## G_T_J

When is this going to be released worldwide? I'm torn between es100 MK2 and this.


----------



## moisespr123

G_T_J said:


> When is this going to be released worldwide? I'm torn between es100 MK2 and this.



I ask the same. I already own the ES100, and ordered the BTR1K and BTR3 during the 11.11 sale. Those will be my first fiio receivers, and I'm looking forward to the BTR5. Any news of when it will be available either on AliExpress or Amazon?


----------



## G_T_J

nappoler said:


> I think you get BTR5 from hifigo, hifigo will be shipping to the world from the end of this month
> https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-btr5-dual-es9218p-dac-native-dsd-decoding-bluetooth-amplifier



$140? For a device that has a RRP 99?


----------



## ClieOS

G_T_J said:


> $140? For a device that has a RRP 99?



We should see global shipping by the end of the month, most likely. That's FiiO original plan anyway. HiFiGo isn't an authorized reseller, so they are probably capitalizing the strong demand.


----------



## G_T_J

ClieOS said:


> We should see global shipping by the end of the month, most likely. That's FiiO original plan anyway. HiFiGo isn't an authorized reseller, so they are probably capitalizing the strong demand.


I hope it is released soon. I'm still on the fence whether I'll get this one or the es100 MK2. 
Thanks Tai.


----------



## FiiO

PochoLaPantera said:


> When it will be  in the AliExpress official store? I wanna buy it!


Dear friend,

At about early next month.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO




----------



## English Gent

Hi, anyone knows the difference between this and the Shanling UP2 Bluetooth DAC? seems to have the same DAC and feature set.

interested to know if this would be an upgrade I have there mini M0 player that works as Bluetooth connector at the moment, but can be fiddly 

thanks


----------



## episiarch

English Gent said:


> Hi, anyone knows the difference between this and the Shanling UP2 Bluetooth DAC?



When I heard a prototype BTR5 and a production UP2 this summer at CanJam London, the BTR5 drove my ER4S much more nicely than the UP2 did. (Single-ended in both cases.) I put this down to output power, as Etys benefit from proper amplification more than one might suppose. But whatever the reason, I thought BTR5 was excellent and UP2 was not quite there.

Again, that was just a prototype BTR5. I haven't heard a production one.


----------



## English Gent

episiarch said:


> When I heard a prototype BTR5 and a production UP2 this summer at CanJam London, the BTR5 drove my ER4S much more nicely than the UP2 did. (Single-ended in both cases.) I put this down to output power, as Etys benefit from proper amplification more than one might suppose. But whatever the reason, I thought BTR5 was excellent and UP2 was not quite there.
> 
> Again, that was just a prototype BTR5. I haven't heard a production one.



Thanks for info, my Shanling M0 drives my Shure SE846's very easily and has a great sound, but it is hard to handle, any touching of it in pocket changes something or skips tracks etc when being used as a Bluetooth receiver, so after more simpler device with quality sound, I gave up on tacking Chord Mojo around..lol


----------



## crax1905

Guys hello, hope you all well. I made an order ES100 MK1 on drop.com about 1 month, It didn't arrive to me yet. When It is in transit, I checked the website of Earstudio to get the latest firmwares and I saw and shocked because of seeing ES100 2nd version. I was looking for differences between 1st and 2nd version of ES100 on the forum sites, saw BTR5 and Qudelix 5K. I am about to get crazy to which one is better. For now, I am planning to sell ES100 that I ordered and purchase FiiO BTR5. What are your suggestions guys? Thank you.


----------



## ClieOS

Firmware: v1.04: https://bbs.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=201910281104318430028&tid=16

Fixes:
1) Possible volume anomaly after swapping between 3.5mm and 2.5mm output
2) Other minor optimization


----------



## Hisma

@FiiO how come the BTR5 is unavailable on taobao?   I am an expat living in China and I cannot order on aliexpress.  On the fiio official store, the BTR5 shows as "unavailable".  When will it be available for purchase in the local chinese market?


----------



## ClieOS

Hisma said:


> @FiiO how come the BTR5 is unavailable on taobao?   I am an expat living in China and I cannot order on aliexpress.  On the fiio official store, the BTR5 shows as "unavailable".  When will it be available for purchase in the local chinese market?



The 1st pre-order has already been sent out a month ago, the 2nd pre-order will be sent out before the month's end, then the general release will follow. You're just being caught in between and you will have to wait for the general release to place an order.


----------



## Marco Angel

crax1905 said:


> Guys hello, hope you all well. I made an order ES100 MK1 on drop.com about 1 month, It didn't arrive to me yet. When It is in transit, I checked the website of Earstudio to get the latest firmwares and I saw and shocked because of seeing ES100 2nd version. I was looking for differences between 1st and 2nd version of ES100 on the forum sites, saw BTR5 and Qudelix 5K. I am about to get crazy to which one is better. For now, I am planning to sell ES100 that I ordered and purchase FiiO BTR5. What are your suggestions guys? Thank you.


I have the Es100 and since the upgrade to the MK2 is only esthetic, i will keep it
Also, in paper, the BTR5 looks better but if you will use LDAC and EQ within the app, the eq will not work. and since the ES100 have an almost flawless EQ, im keeping it until new firmware for the BTR5 and comparisons between the ES100.
A good contender will be the Qudelix since will be more like the real upgrade of the ES100.


----------



## archy121

Marco Angel said:


> I have the Es100 and since the upgrade to the MK2 is only esthetic, i will keep it



Good thing than it’s only aesthetic.


----------



## crax1905

Marco Angel said:


> I have the Es100 and since the upgrade to the MK2 is only esthetic, i will keep it
> Also, in paper, the BTR5 looks better but if you will use LDAC and EQ within the app, the eq will not work. and since the ES100 have an almost flawless EQ, im keeping it until new firmware for the BTR5 and comparisons between the ES100.
> A good contender will be the Qudelix since will be more like the real upgrade of the ES100.


EQ makes the sound artificial, I won't use EQ so It isn't a problem for me. I would like to buy BTR5 but I am really confused. And why is Qudelix real contender of ES100? Please tell me your thoughts with supporting ideas.


----------



## kukkurovaca

crax1905 said:


> EQ makes the sound artificial, I won't use EQ so It isn't a problem for me. I would like to buy BTR5 but I am really confused. And why is Qudelix real contender of ES100? Please tell me your thoughts with supporting ideas.



If EQ sounds artificial, you're either using a badly implemented EQ, or using bad settings. ES100's EQ is quite good. That being said, if you don't need/want EQ, the ES100 certainly has less of an edge over competing products for you. 

The reason why people are looking to the Qudelix as the successor to the ES100 is that the main designer of the ES100 is now on the Qudelix team, so people expect that product may be what people want from a next generation of the ES100. Strictly speculative at this point, since the crowdfunding campaign for Qudelix hasn't even started yet.


----------



## crax1905

kukkurovaca said:


> If EQ sounds artificial, you're either using a badly implemented EQ, or using bad settings. ES100's EQ is quite good. That being said, if you don't need/want EQ, the ES100 certainly has less of an edge over competing products for you.
> 
> The reason why people are looking to the Qudelix as the successor to the ES100 is that the main designer of the ES100 is now on the Qudelix team, so people expect that product may be what people want from a next generation of the ES100. Strictly speculative at this point, since the crowdfunding campaign for Qudelix hasn't even started yet.


No, EQ affects the sound's naturalness. An extraordinary attempt to adjust the sound. For instance, When you test an audio product, do you open EQ? You should don't open EQ. It doesn't reflect original sound characteristics when it's working, sorry. 

Yes, I got informed about Qudelix before, we will see the product when it is sold in Feb. or March 2020. They will be funded at KickStarter.


----------



## kukkurovaca

crax1905 said:


> No, EQ affects the sound's naturalness. An extraordinary attempt to adjust the sound. For instance, When you test an audio product, do you open EQ? You should don't open EQ. It doesn't reflect original sound characteristics when it's working, sorry.



Does changing earphone tips or pads also "affect the sound's naturalness"? How about using a tube amp? How about modding, or buying a modded headphone? Or using an Audeze IEM with their cypher cable or Reveal plugin?

All these things change the frequency response (some have other impacts on the sound as well), and none of them are "natural," nor is there anything particularly natural about playing about digital or analog audio to begin with. They all have their place IMO, but EQ has two great advantages: it can be targeted and controlled quite specifically, and it's quick and easy to toggle between EQ settings (or no EQ). Of course, nobody's forcing you to use it; if everything you own already sounds exactly as you want it, you're set. : ) 

But FWIW, when I test something new, I listen both with and without EQ. If something is already spot-on for my preferences, or quite close, that's great. But if it has good technical performance and I can adjust its tuning to be right for me...that's also great. Doubly so if it means I can get better performance for less money. 

Anyway, this is all quite off topic, so apologies to everybody else.


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## crax1905 (Nov 22, 2019)

kukkurovaca said:


> Does changing earphone tips or pads also "affect the sound's naturalness"? How about using a tube amp? How about modding, or buying a modded headphone? Or using an Audeze IEM with their cypher cable or Reveal plugin?
> 
> All these things change the frequency response (some have other impacts on the sound as well), and none of them are "natural," nor is there anything particularly natural about playing about digital or analog audio to begin with. They all have their place IMO, but EQ has two great advantages: it can be targeted and controlled quite specifically, and it's quick and easy to toggle between EQ settings (or no EQ). Of course, nobody's forcing you to use it; if everything you own already sounds exactly as you want it, you're set. : )
> 
> ...


Tips, pads, cables affect in a physical way. Amp also affects the naturalness of sound but it is an hardware solution. But EQ in ES100 or BTR5 or Qudelix 5K is a software thing. Then Why are we buying DACs/DAPs to play songs, why don't we use EQ or new ROM on our smartphones instead of buying DACs or DAPs? We should listen to songs natural by using hardware solutions, not software and artificials.

And also note that You have to preset a EQ adjustment per song, you can't get good performance if it is always same preset. Do you alter your EQ preset per song/music you listen to? I wanted to warn you because you said above that "you might adjusted your EQ preset bad, that's why you don't use EQ."


----------



## kukkurovaca

crax1905 said:


> Tips, pads, cables affect in a physical way. Amp also affects the naturalness of sound but it is an hardware solution. But EQ in ES100 or BTR5 or Qudelix 5K is a software thing. Then Why are we buying DACs/DAPs to play songs, why don't we use EQ or new ROM on our smartphones instead of buying DACs or DAPs? We should listen to songs natural by using hardware solutions, not software and artificials.



By that logic, you should only ever listen to vinyl or cassette tapes. Good luck getting a FLAC (or whatever your file type of choice) to play without using firmware and software ; ) 

As to why use EQ on the ES100 rather than on the phone -- that is back on topic, potentially. The nice thing about having EQ stored on the DAC is that it's more stable, portable, and flexible. I don't have to worry about apps that crash or how to set up EQ when using Tidal or whatever. And I can plug the ES100 into my work or home computer and have the same EQ preset without having to keep something like EqualizerAPO synced up between the two machines.


----------



## crax1905 (Nov 22, 2019)

kukkurovaca said:


> By that logic, you should only ever listen to vinyl or cassette tapes. Good luck getting a FLAC (or whatever your file type of choice) to play without using firmware and software ; )
> 
> As to why use EQ on the ES100 rather than on the phone -- that is back on topic, potentially. The nice thing about having EQ stored on the DAC is that it's more stable, portable, and flexible. I don't have to worry about apps that crash or how to set up EQ when using Tidal or whatever. And I can plug the ES100 into my work or home computer and have the same EQ preset without having to keep something like EqualizerAPO synced up between the two machines.


We should stay away software solutions as far as possible. If we can use vinyl or cassette or cd, we should use them.

And don't forget to adjust EQ preset per song/music; trouble, big trouble.


----------



## ClieOS

I think we can universally agree software EQ degrades SQ on a technical standpoint as far as mobile devices are concerned. So the best we can do is to start with great hardware that doesn't need much, if any software EQ to begin with, and only resolve to EQ as the necessary evil to better suit individual taste. Never a bad thing for having more options, as long as it doesn't affect the fundamental.


----------



## Marco Angel

Im not supporting anybody, just giving away my thoughts...

I also think that most of the EQ affects in a bad way the "naturalness" of what is reproducing (songs, games, just videos, etc) i had and sold EQs from Yamaha for beeing bad at its job, the sound just doesn’t sound coherent and right.
Thats why i like to simply EQ my music with the subwoofer only, just increasing its volume and freq response, leaving the AMP-PRE-SPEAKERS work as they are.

BUT..... on the go, just having a pair of headphones and your source, you have to go with another alternatives, like modding the vents, trying different kind of tips, (anybody say cables?). also trying different sources or amps. So if your headphone didn’t sound just as you want, the EQ is your friend here. But if your goal is to have the best sound possible, you might avoid using the EQ from most sources.

That said, I found that the EQ in the ES100 doesent introduce artifacts to your sound, just leaving the goodness. At least my latest FH5 (soon to be sold) and my SE846 benefits from it just bumping the lower bass (31.5hz +5dB, 63hz +2dB) for extra subwoofer rumble just when the song ask for and not mudding the songs

Thats why im choosy whith the BTR5 and Qudelix 5K. so im waiting my hard earned money for the reviews and comparisons against the ES100

My 2 cents here


----------



## crax1905

Do you guys think which one should be bought; BTR5, ES100 or Shanling UP4? Tell us reasons, please.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

crax1905 said:


> Do you guys think which one should be bought; BTR5, ES100 or Shanling UP4? Tell us reasons, please.



at this point whichever comes out first gets my Money, thou I'm leaning toward the UP4 for the better Battery Life.


----------



## crax1905

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> at this point whichever comes out first gets my Money, thou I'm leaning toward the UP4 for the better Battery Life.


Actually I like BTR5 but nobody knows SQ of it. That is why I can't make a move to purchase. I need someone who has listened to BTR5 and ES100 and compared them together.


----------



## Marco Angel

crax1905 said:


> Actually I like BTR5 but nobody knows SQ of it. That is why I can't make a move to purchase. I need someone who has listened to BTR5 and ES100 and compared them together.


Second here


----------



## geffo

crax1905 said:


> Actually I like BTR5 but nobody knows SQ of it. That is why I can't make a move to purchase. I need someone who has listened to BTR5 and ES100 and compared them together.



I have the BTR5 and the BTR3 and used to own the ES100. The BTR5 easily outperforms the BTR3 and from my memory, sounds better than the ES100 in both balanced and unbalanced. I sold my ES100 when I ordered the BTR5 but it took a while to arrive from China so I didn't have them both side by side. The USB C was much needed for my use case and I'm really happy with it!


----------



## crax1905

geffo said:


> I have the BTR5 and the BTR3 and used to own the ES100. The BTR5 easily outperforms the BTR3 and from my memory, sounds better than the ES100 in both balanced and unbalanced. I sold my ES100 when I ordered the BTR5 but it took a while to arrive from China so I didn't have them both side by side. The USB C was much needed for my use case and I'm really happy with it!


Thanks for your valuable comment. I hope you can use it flawlessly. I am now trying to sell ES100 to buy BTR5. Let's wait and see.


----------



## Marco Angel

geffo said:


> I have the BTR5 and the BTR3 and used to own the ES100. The BTR5 easily outperforms the BTR3 and from my memory, sounds better than the ES100 in both balanced and unbalanced. I sold my ES100 when I ordered the BTR5 but it took a while to arrive from China so I didn't have them both side by side. The USB C was much needed for my use case and I'm really happy with it!


And how do you could compare the app from Fiio vs the ES100? one of the things from the ES100 is its super informative and customizable


----------



## geffo

I never really used much of the Radstone app personally, same with the Fiio app. Radstone seemed a tad more well thought out but there isn't anything that the Fiio app is missing that I've come across. I had always wished that the BTR3 has balanced output or the ES100 had USB C so this is the first device with all of the above.


----------



## FiiO

Hisma said:


> @FiiO how come the BTR5 is unavailable on taobao?   I am an expat living in China and I cannot order on aliexpress.  On the fiio official store, the BTR5 shows as "unavailable".  When will it be available for purchase in the local chinese market?


Dear friend,

The 2nd pre-order in Chinese market have been sold out now.  

Best regards


----------



## FiiO




----------



## Hanesu (Nov 25, 2019)

crax1905 said:


> And also note that You have to preset a EQ adjustment per song, you can't get good performance if it is always same preset. Do you alter your EQ preset per song/music you listen to? I wanted to warn you because you said above that "you might adjusted your EQ preset bad, that's why you don't use EQ."



Sorry, but this argument is simply not well thought through, especially from a logical point of view. There are different DAPs on the market that basically have a different sound. Right? Think about : What IS their actual difference? They pronounce different frequency regions differently (no matter whether it has analog or digital “reasons”). Just like an EQ does! Do you change DAPs with every song? Nope! Why should you do that with an EQ? 
You should better see it the other way round: You could if you wanted - so it’s actually aN extra feature compared to a DAP without EQ. I never got why people are against EQs. In the end the only thing that counts is what you hear. You can be agains special effects in movies your whole life. But the day you don’t realize anymore it’s a special effect (because it’s made perfectly) you can just enjoy the movie- because what you see is what you see. So what about appreciating companies trying to improve EQs instead of refusing it for no reason? Nobody needs to use it, it’s just a bonus.


----------



## crax1905

Hanesu said:


> Sorry, but this argument is simply not well thought through, especially from a logical point of view. There are different DAPs on the market that basically have a different sound. Right? Think about : What IS their actual difference? They pronounce different frequency regions differently (no matter whether it has analog or digital “reasons”). Just like an EQ does! Do you change DAPs with every song? Nope! Why should you do that with an EQ?
> You should better see it the other way round: You could if you wanted - so it’s actually aN extra feature compared to a DAP without EQ. I never got why people are against EQs. In the end the only thing that counts is what you hear. You can be agains special effects in movies your whole life. But the day you don’t realize anymore it’s a special effect (because it’s made perfectly) you can just enjoy the movie- because what you see is what you see. So what about appreciating companies trying to improve EQs instead of refusing it for no reason? Nobody needs to use it, it’s just a bonus.


I just appreciate Earstudio for adding EQ in LDAC mode to its ES100. Is it okay?


----------



## fsi22

To those interested,   The BTR5 is now available on AliExpress through the Official Fiio store.


----------



## digititus

fsi22 said:


> To those interested,   The BTR5 is now available on AliExpress through the Official Fiio store.


$139 - pass.


----------



## G_T_J

139? I was expecting it at 99. A no from me too...


----------



## Marco Angel

It looks very nice and have a lot of power in balanced but for $3,058.3 Mexican pesos for being a beta tester on the flac eq...... It's a pass until further reviews. It really needs to outshine the es100 completely.


----------



## crax1905

Dear Fiio, It is too pricy at this time. If It continues being 140 bucks, no one cares it. As you promise on your website, please sell it 109.99 dollars or lower. We customers are getting impatient to try it for now.


----------



## tmb821

I really want to try one of these. I have a hearing impairment, about 35% overall loss with greater loss at specific frequencies. Most of them fall in the midrange and human speech frequencies. I’m hoping that this device can help to bump this specific frequencies up so I don’t have to have the volume at such a high level to hear it. Money is hard to come by so I don’t want to have to spend a bunch of it won’t make any difference in what I hear. For reference I am using a iPhone XR Bluetooth to a mpow soundbot feeding a topping nx3s playing through akg k240s. 
I guess I’m asking, would this be a worthwhile investment? Or will I not notice much of a difference from what I currently use. 
Thanks!


----------



## moisespr123

I also agree with the price. Was expecting it to be cheaper. At this point, I may choose to save my money and go with another dual dac DAP rather than just a Bluetooth receiver.


----------



## Ninosan

fsi22 said:


> To those interested,   The BTR5 is now available on AliExpress through the Official Fiio store.


I do not see it ...


----------



## psikey

Ninosan said:


> I do not see it ...



Same ??


----------



## tyota

Anyone listened to this yet? How does it compare to the BTR3 or ES100?


----------



## moisespr123

It says it is now not available, but the link was this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html


----------



## crax1905

Guys, Fiio applies different price policy than USA buyers to the world buyers. Fiio shows 109.99 dollars on its website for BTR5 but sells 139.99 dollars on Aliexpress. Is this ethical or sensible? I don't approve this behavior.


----------



## crax1905

nappoler said:


> I think the main reason is btr5 is limited now and fiio official does not announce the international price until now


I don't know the main reason but US buyers can buy it 30 dollars cheaper than world buyers. Actually 30 dollars isn't huge money but behavior of firm is awkward.


----------



## tyota

crax1905 said:


> Guys, Fiio applies different price policy than USA buyers to the world buyers. Fiio shows 109.99 dollars on its website for BTR5 but sells 139.99 dollars on Aliexpress. Is this ethical or sensible? I don't approve this behavior.



Something I have always thought. This has been the case with alot of FiiOs drops.


----------



## G_T_J

With the Quidelix just around the corner for a RRP at  $99 why would anyone buy this one for 40 more? It makes absolutely no sense. I may as well wait for a couple more months and get that one instead.


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 26, 2019)

NVM


----------



## nishan99

I just realised how the bad the new design of the BTR5.

Why the hell you double glass it's body then force us to use that ugly case (which will turn yellow within weeks) to protect it? 

Switching from metal to glass just to have better looks then you force the users to use that big and ugly case?! what's the point? 

There is no clip with the BTR5, if you want one you have to use that case (again thanks to the double glass design)

Big, chunky, yellow and ugly, all can can be avoided if you sticked with the back metal build.


----------



## djselbeck

nishan99 said:


> I just realised how the bad the new design of the BTR5.
> 
> Why the hell you double glass it's body then force us to use that ugly case (which will turn yellow within weeks) to protect it?
> 
> ...



Removing the clip from the device is a good thing. I was annoyed by the clip on the btr3 and it also broke off at one side. So I like this new way of the m5 and btr5.

However, I do not like the price


----------



## Q Mass

@Hawaiibadboy has unboxed the BTR5.



Looking forward to hearing what you think of the SQ (especially via LDAC).
And how single ended compares to balanced, (is it just a power difference, or does it actually *sound* different?).
.


----------



## nishan99

djselbeck said:


> Removing the clip from the device is a good thing. I was annoyed by the clip on the btr3 and it also broke off at one side. So I like this new way of the m5 and btr5.
> 
> However, I do not like the price



How do you use a Bluetooth DAC? 

I clip it to my upper body clothes and I need it to be elegant and minimalistic (because it's literally hanging in there as a part of my appearance).

The BTR5 is already bigger than the BTR3 so adding an ugly yellow case is a deal breaker to me, I can't walk around with that yellow ugly thing attached on my chest.


----------



## ClieOS

nishan99 said:


> I just realised how the bad the new design of the BTR5.
> 
> Why the hell you double glass it's body then force us to use that ugly case (which will turn yellow within weeks) to protect it?
> 
> ...



I assumed when you say 'switching from metal to glass', you might be referring to BTR3? Actually, while the clip itself is metal, the back plate of BTR3 is plastic. The reason of using plastic and not metal in that case probably has to do with the fact that metal will interfere with BT wireless signal - the more metal you have in the housing, the less wireless signal you will get. So even if FiiO doesn't use a glass back plate, it will still have to be plastic of some kind as this has less to do with aesthetic and more to do with wireless range. This is the same reason why many smartphone these days too have front and back glass panel instead of a full metal body.

I don't personally mind a plastic back plate with the shirt clip built into the body, but I think FiiO might be concerned about the complaints that they received from some BTR3 user where they break the shirt clip (which won't likely get cover by warranty). A removable shirt clip, while bulky, offer the ability of easy replacement. One thing I do want to applaud of BTR5's shirt clip design is that it is an symmetrical design - you can put the BTR5 into the shirt clip upside-down or front-to-back (assuming you don't need to look at the OLED) and it will still work. Can't say the same for Shanling UP4, which can only be put in its shirt clip one way.


----------



## djselbeck (Nov 26, 2019)

nishan99 said:


> How do you use a Bluetooth DAC?



I just jam it in the pocket of my jeans. I use it very rough as it is an every day item. I cannot treat it likes it is made out of sugar.

Also the clip is transparent and not yellow.


----------



## nishan99

djselbeck said:


> I just jam it in the pocket of my jeans. I use it very rough as it is an every day item. I cannot treat it likes it is made out of sugar.
> 
> Also the clip is transparent and not yellow.



It will turn yellow within 2-3 weeks.


----------



## G_T_J

nishan99 said:


> It will turn yellow within 2-3 weeks.


Apart from discouloring, this case (which is needed to clip on clothes and for me would probably had to be on permanently) adds to the bulk and weight of the adaptor which is already substantially heavier than BTR3.


----------



## Lopsy1

nishan99 said:


> It will turn yellow within 2-3 weeks.


I have my one for a month now and it is still crystal clear. You don't know what type of plastic it is made of. It's not one of those cheap rubber/silicon phone cases that turns yellow after couple of weeks. I have both Btr3 and Btr5, and design of Btr5 is excellent. The good thing about removable clip is that if you brake it, you can just get replacement without sending the whole unit for repair.


----------



## Lopsy1

G_T_J said:


> Apart from discouloring, this case (which is needed to clip on clothes and for me would probably had to be on permanently) adds to the bulk and weight of the adaptor which is already substantially heavier than BTR3.


It's actually slim and very light.


----------



## G_T_J

Lopsy1 said:


> It's actually slim and very light.


Compared to what. Compared to ES100 and BTR3 is in another league in terms of bulk and weight.


----------



## Cuebbing

ClieOS said:


> I think we can universally agree software EQ degrades SQ on a technical standpoint as far as mobile devices are concerned. So the best we can do is to start with great hardware that doesn't need much, if any software EQ to begin with, and only resolve to EQ as the necessary evil to better suit individual taste. Never a bad thing for having more options, as long as it doesn't affect the fundamental.


I agree that having more options is a good thing.
Not all phones or other sources have an EQ.
I was under the impression EQ would/could negatively impact sound quality but on my three ES100s I use the EQ and can not detect a negative impact.


----------



## kukkurovaca

Cuebbing said:


> I was under the impression EQ would/could negatively impact sound quality but on my three ES100s I use the EQ and can not detect a negative impact.



If the EQ is implemented well and you use it tastefully (for whatever your value of "tastefully" is : ) then there should be no problem. 

I think a lot of issues arise from people not knowing how to use the EQ -- which is understandable, because most EQs are not that user-friendly. The ES100 has a really good one, and I also appreciate that it has good settings for avoiding clipping when boosting frequencies. This makes it a lote more intuitive to get the result you want, without having to translate everything into negative adjustments.

Another key piece is that you have to know just frequency ranges you want to target to get the effect you want, *or *be willing to spend the time to tinker until you find something that works for you. A lot of DSP-type stuff really comes down to, "do you want to spend the time it takes to get the software settings right, or would you rather spend money (and also still some time) chasing perfect hardware synergy." That line will be drawn differently for everyone. For example, if I want a tube amp, I'd rather just use a tube amp than try to emulate a tube sound through DSP. I believe the sound science folks who say it's possible, but none of the tube emulation VSTs I've tried were very pleasant for listening to music with.


----------



## Lopsy1

G_T_J said:


> Compared to what. Compared to ES100 and BTR3 is in another league in terms of bulk and weight.


From your comment I assumed you were talking about the size of the clip itself, not comparing it to anything. Btr5 is bigger than es100 or Btr3 that is true. But clip itself is light and slim (I'm talking about Btr5 size now not comparing it to anything). I own both, Btr3 and Btr5. And my first impression was that Btr5 is to big, but now I don't even look back at Btr3. Sound, build quality and overall experience is amazing.


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 26, 2019)

nishan99 said:


> It will turn yellow within 2-3 weeks.



Nope. Already own my BTR5 for almost a month now and no discoloration is detected. I reckon you can get it to turn yellow if you put it under direct sunlight or UV lamp for an hours or two every days for a week or two, but that's not what normal people will do to their BT adapter. Besides, turning yellow doesn't impact SQ, so what's the big deal there?



G_T_J said:


> Apart from discouloring, this case (which is needed to clip on clothes and for me would probably had to be on permanently) adds to the bulk and weight of the adaptor which is already substantially heavier than BTR3.



The clip itself is about 9g, BTR5 with the clip is about 52~53g. I reckon if FiiO designed the clip into the body like they did on BTR3, they might be able to save 3~5g, which isn't going to make BTR5 that much lighter. The only way to really reduce weight is to use full plastic body.


----------



## nishan99

ClieOS said:


> Nope. Already own my BTR5 for almost a month now and no discoloration is detected. I reckon you can get it to turn yellow if you put it under direct sunlight or UV lamp for an hours or two every days for a week or two, but that's not what normal people will do to their BT adapter. Besides, turning yellow doesn't impact SQ, so what's the big deal there?



It will turn yellow eventually with normal use. 
The big deal is the looks, ugly yellow case attached to my chest? no please.


----------



## Lopsy1

nishan99 said:


> It will turn yellow eventually with normal use.
> The big deal is the looks, ugly yellow case attached to my chest? no please.


I assure you, it will not turn yellow. And even if it would I don't think anyone would care of what is attached to your chest and what colour it is. And if you use it with Btr5 in it than everyone will be looking at the device and not at the case.


----------



## Cuebbing

Is there any pics of one turned yellow?


----------



## Lopsy1

Cuebbing said:


> Is there any pics of one turned yellow?


As I commented earlier, I own one for a month now and is still the same crystal clear as it was when I received it. No discolouration.


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 26, 2019)

nishan99 said:


> It will turn yellow eventually with normal use.
> The big deal is the looks, ugly yellow case attached to my chest? no please.



Well, if look is so important to you, I guess there isn't much point for you to be here since I don't think FiiO is going to do a 180 and make any significant change to BTR5.


----------



## nishan99

Lopsy1 said:


> I assure you, it will not turn yellow. And even if it would I don't think anyone would care of what is attached to your chest and what colour it is. And if you use it with Btr5 in it than everyone will be looking at the device and not at the case.



Both the BTR3 and 5 are gorgeous looking and I don't mind attaching them to my forehand, but that mandatory case? no.


----------



## Q Mass

I too like that the clip is removable.
There's already a tiny unit on the market, so the BTR5 having more power at the expense of being a bit bigger broadens our options, which I also like.
Being able to properly push power hungry IEM's and even full size headphones is more in line with what I'd like in this type of product, so I'm definitely happy FIIO went this way.

As for it going yellow, I have had plenty of phone and DAP cases of this type in the past, and only one yellowed, and that was after YEARS, so why assume this one will not stay clear for a loooong time?
And IF it does eventually, just replace it, I bet they won't be expensive!


----------



## nishan99

ClieOS said:


> Well, if look is so important to you, I guess there isn't much point for you to be here since I don't think FiiO is going to do a 180 and make any significant change to BTR5.



I am just writing my feedback to them not you. 
Stop being protective about it Mr. Lawyer.


----------



## FiiO

Local country prices are related to customs duties, shipping charges, etc.
Prices in different countries are set by local agents based on their actual situation, not set by FiiO, and the law does not allow price control.
We will delete the US$109.99 lable on our website in order to avoid misunderstanding. Thanks for your feedback.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO




----------



## Lopsy1

Q Mass said:


> I too like that the clip is removable.
> There's already a tiny unit on the market, so the BTR5 having more power at the expense of being a bit bigger broadens our options, which I also like.
> Being able to properly push power hungry IEM's and even full size headphones is more in line with what I'd like in this type of product, so I'm definitely happy FIIO went this way.
> 
> ...


I bought a spare one, just in case if I brake my and it's not expensive at all. I like that it is removable it let's me to use my Btr5 with the leather case.


----------



## Lopsy1

nishan99 said:


> I am just writing my feedback to them not you.
> Stop being protective about it Mr. Lawyer.


Honestly, you should prove it first and then comment it. In this case you just assuming on something that may never happen. And even if it will happen (which I doubt) then Fiio will listen to their customers.


----------



## Marco Angel

I do like its aesthetics plus its size,  seems comfy to have in your pocket as I do with the es100 (btw, have never use its clip)
Also its price seems correct, due its internals @FiiO just needs to keep up with its claims and update ASAP the EQ in flac. 
My only worry is how the glass will handle the daily use in my poquet, maybe a super cheap vinyl wrap could help with the scratches
@FiiO remember the vinyls you sell to the X7? Please give us something like that.


----------



## Lopsy1

Marco Angel said:


> I do like its aesthetics plus its size,  seems comfy to have in your pocket as I do with the es100 (btw, have never use its clip)
> Also its price seems correct, due its internals @FiiO just needs to keep up with its claims and update ASAP the EQ in flac.
> My only worry is how the glass will handle the daily use in my poquet, maybe a super cheap vinyl wrap could help with the scratches
> @FiiO remember the vinyls you sell to the X7? Please give us something like that.


I bought a genuine Fiio leather case for my one. Looks great and is excellent quality.


----------



## ClieOS (Nov 26, 2019)

nishan99 said:


> I am just writing my feedback to them not you.
> Stop being protective about it Mr. Lawyer.



So you're the only one allows to express opinion? I didn't get that memo, sorry about it. I'll shut up for now, Your Honor.


----------



## Darkestred

How is this over the BTR3?  I saw one comment.  I have the BTR3 currently but im a little whore with these gadgets.  I'm waiting to see how the Qudalix (sp?) turns out.  But, this is on my short-list.


----------



## arn

So where and when can I get it Europe?


----------



## Cuebbing

Lopsy1 said:


> As I commented earlier, I own one for a month now and is still the same crystal clear as it was when I received it. No discolouration.


Yes sir your comment is what I was thinking about.  I doubt it will turn yellow so I would expect someone who is claiming that it turns yellow to be able to be able to provide a picture.


----------



## FiiO (Dec 3, 2019)

*FiiO Flagship Portable High-Fidelity Bluetooth Amplifier BTR5 is available now!*

Combining the accumulated expertise gathered from the development of FiiO's BTR series of Bluetooth Headphone Amplifiers. Evoking a new era of Bluetooth Headphone Amplifiers - the new Flagship Portable Hi-Fi Bluetooth Headphone Amplifier BTR5 has arrived! Following eight months of extensive research and development, the engineering team has overcoming multiple challenges, realizing many initiatives and breakthroughs towards creating a more complete experience for music enthusiasts!

*Key features of the BTR5 include:*

1. High Performance DAC ES9218P*2
2. Flagship Bluetooth chip CSR8675
3. FPGA clock management，dual independent crystal oscillators
4. Bluetooth 5.0 with full format support
5. Independent control chip XMOS XUF208
6. USB DAC supporting up to 384kHz/DSD256 native
7. Double-sided 2.5D glass with OLED display
8. 3.5mm+2.5mm headphone outputs
9. Intelligent control with FiiO Music app
10. One-touch NFC pairing

To find out more about the BTR5, please visit the product page on https://www.fiio.com/BTR5 , you are also invited to join in the discussion of the BTR5 on Head-Fi at https://bit.ly/2Oq89y and have an visual insight of the BTR5 via YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vaa5O5yf8dE

Shipments of BTR5 to respective distributors begins now and will provide updates via our web page at https://fiio.com/newsinfo/349890.html, you may locate your nearest authorized sales agent via our online listing: https://bit.ly/2OBzJpn. And check with the respective sales agent on the expected availability of the product.


*Best Regards
FiiO Electronics Technology Co., Ltd*


----------



## Jayden16

FiiO said:


> *FiiO Flagship Portable High-Fidelity Bluetooth Amplifier BTR5 is available now!*


Any idea when it'll be available for sale in Australia from Minidisc or Addicted to Audio? I can't wait to get my hands on one!


----------



## Hanesu (Nov 27, 2019)

Can some of the owners maybe compare the sound to a DAP?
How big is the difference?
Because from my own experience Bluetooth sound actually can be very close to wired recently (XDSD for example)...


----------



## archy121

ClieOS said:


> ... Already own my BTR5 for almost a month now ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ClieOS

Haven't wrote a full review yet, but probably will be soon. Look to my BT adapter thread for update.


----------



## FiiO

Jayden16 said:


> Any idea when it'll be available for sale in Australia from Minidisc or Addicted to Audio? I can't wait to get my hands on one!


Dear friend,

At about next week.

ovember 25th:
Singapore:Eng Siang International Pte Ltd 
Malaysia: E1 Personal Audio
Germany: NT Global Distribution GmbH
HongKong: Carve Link Company
Spain: Zococity
Sweden: UZTORE AB
Thailand: Holysai
Belarus:Magnit Invest
Australia: Addicted To Audio
Netherlands: HDPHNS
Switzerland: Portacomp AG

USA: Office direct sales inc

USA: TekFx

New Zealand: Sound Essentials

Best regards


----------



## FiiO




----------



## Hanesu

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> At about next week.
> 
> ...



Japan?


----------



## kordal

Out of stock on FiiO AliExpress Store  When will be in stock again?


----------



## Baten

kordal said:


> Out of stock on FiiO AliExpress Store  When will be in stock again?


Still in stock @ https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-btr5-dual-es9218p-dac-native-dsd-decoding-bluetooth-amplifier


----------



## psikey (Dec 1, 2019)

AMP 3 (UK) taking preorders and £76 with this discount code (not sure how long it lasts)

BFY152019 (15% off)

https://www.advancedmp3players.co.u...BTR5_Bluetooth_Headphone_Amplifier.15408.html

Got mine in.


----------



## G_T_J

psikey said:


> AMP 3 (UK) taking preorders and £76 with this discount code (not sure how lo g it lasts)
> 
> BFY152019
> 
> https://www.advancedmp3players.co.u...BTR5_Bluetooth_Headphone_Amplifier.15408.html



Great price! Thanks for the heads up.
Just placed a pre-order


----------



## Baten

psikey said:


> AMP 3 (UK) taking preorders and £76 with this discount code (not sure how long it lasts)
> 
> BFY152019 (15% off)
> 
> ...


Coupon just changed to

BF19SAVE


----------



## archy121

psikey said:


> AMP 3 (UK) taking preorders and £76 with this discount code (not sure how long it lasts)
> 
> BFY152019 (15% off)
> 
> ...





psikey said:


> AMP 3 (UK) taking preorders and £76 with this discount code (not sure how long it lasts)
> 
> BFY152019 (15% off)
> 
> ...



All gone out of stock and removed from the site now.


----------



## Baten

G_T_J said:


> Great price! Thanks for the heads up.
> Just placed a pre-order


Thanks a lot. I managed to order before it went OOS


----------



## moisespr123

It is now on Amazon too:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZK3M6XK/


----------



## G_T_J

Baten said:


> Thanks a lot. I managed to order before it went OOS


You should thank @psikey who brought it to our attention... 

I just hope the pre-order wait won't be long and we get our units before Christmas.


----------



## psikey

moisespr123 said:


> It is now on Amazon too:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZK3M6XK/


Not an Amazon UK yet.


----------



## FiiO

Hanesu said:


> Japan?


Dear friend,

The BTR5 will be available in Japan at about December 20th.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO




----------



## Marco Angel

FiiO said:


>


Looks fancy
Any news of there is any probable date of enabling the eq in ldac?  Please


----------



## DezHifi

If anyone's interested, here's a BTR5 review that compares the BTR3, ES100 and Q5s.
https://translate.google.com/transl...iio-btr5-recenzja/?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg


----------



## Hanesu

DezHifi said:


> If anyone's interested, here's a BTR5 review that compares the BTR3, ES100 and Q5s.
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://kropka.audio/test/wzmacniacze/fiio-btr5-recenzja/?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg




Cool, thank you!!! It’s crazy how well Google translates recently!! It’s from Polish, right? 

It’s great they seemed to have extended the treble - which is very often an issue with Bluetooth devices...

I’d also love to hear an opinion how it compares to a DAP (Bluetooth vs wired)..


----------



## Baten

Hanesu said:


> I’d also love to hear an opinion how it compares to a DAP (Bluetooth vs wired)..



In the review he compared it to A&K DAP and Fiio Q5s   the fiio was marginally better but costs a lot more too. The BTR 5 was the most extended/detailed sounding (as can be expected from a Sabre chip).


----------



## Hanesu (Dec 4, 2019)

Baten said:


> In the review he compared it to A&K DAP and Fiio Q5s   the fiio was marginally better but costs a lot more too. The BTR 5 was the most extended/detailed sounding (as can be expected from a Sabre chip).




Actually A&K XB10 is not a DAP! It’s a Bluetooth dongle, just like the BTR5! And Q5s was also compared in Bluetooth mode. So i’d be interested how it compares to a wired DAP. My question behind it: How good can Bluetooth get these days compared to wired sources?

Thanks for your reply anyway!


----------



## salla45 (Dec 4, 2019)

Ok... Just pulled the trigger on a BTR5.

I'm very curious to hear how it compares to my X7ii and M11 wired and to the BTR3 which has been my go-to bluetooth device for the last 6 months or so.

I bought the BTR5 to have another good USB DAC solution as well, as my Mojo is doing a lot of moving around the house at the moment  .. EDIT: If it can drive my Beyerdynamic T1s I'll be even happier.

Very keen to get this up and running. Will post some findings here.


----------



## NWLierly

Stoked to hear the Tin P1 mentioned specifically - my beloved ES100 refuses to drive the P1 and making it usable on the move gives my long ago ordered BTR5 a reason to exist


----------



## psikey

G_T_J said:


> You should thank @psikey who brought it to our attention...
> 
> I just hope the pre-order wait won't be long and we get our units before Christmas.



For AMP3 UK buyers (they replied to my email this morning)

Hi 

Our FiiO shipment is now on the way and we should hopefully have them tomorrow.  Depending on arrival time we will try to ship out the BTR5 orders same day if we can.


Kind Regards,

Linda 
(Advanced MP3 Players Sales Team)


----------



## Q Mass

psikey said:


> For AMP3 UK buyers (they replied to my email this morning)
> 
> Hi
> 
> ...


I was very sad that the pre-order on Amp3 was SO short lived 
I tried to get it, and the page opened and everything seemed to be going OK, but by the time I went to add the BTR5 to my basket they must have ended it.
70-odd quid too


----------



## G_T_J

psikey said:


> For AMP3 UK buyers (they replied to my email this morning)
> 
> Hi
> 
> ...


Great news!!


----------



## psikey (Dec 5, 2019)

Q Mass said:


> I was very sad that the pre-order on Amp3 was SO short lived
> I tried to get it, and the page opened and everything seemed to be going OK, but by the time I went to add the BTR5 to my basket they must have ended it.
> 70-odd quid too


£76 with the 15% off. Yes, they went really quick after I posted info and then gone from website !


----------



## Baten

psikey said:


> £76 with the 15% off. Yes, they went really quick after I posted info and then gone from website !


Thanks again for sharing  got in in the nick of time


----------



## archy121

For UK - Taking Preorders with expected limited delivery Next week. Go go .. 

https://www.advancedmp3players.co.u...BTR5_Bluetooth_Headphone_Amplifier.15408.html


----------



## Fishdo

Just ordered mine from eaemporium on eBay UK.. should have it tomorrow so I am looking forward to hearing it for myself...

it was by chance I even knew this updated version was out as I nearly ordered the BTR 3...

I had been in 2 minds about getting the Plus Sound BT custom cable using their Poetic cable but I thought I would stick to using my own EA or ALO cable so the BTR5 will give me that flexibility.. hopefully it will be worth the cost


----------



## salla45

Received my BTR5 just now. 

Initial thoughts.

Great design, similar to BTR3 but chunkier of course.

Pairing, very simple. Switched it on an pairing mode invoked automatically. 

Connect to my Note 8, LDAC, seamless. 

Sounds very good, very powerful. Drives my 600ohm T1s to sufficient volume at around 40-43/60 in single ended mode.

As USB dac, simple, plugged into USB C and connected to laptop, recognised as Fiio Q device in Roon.

Works perfectly bit-perfect, including DSF files. Tested up to DSF 64 and 192/24 files, no glitching.

Compared briefly to Mojo. No slouch at all.

Great start!

BTR3 now has been relegated to my backup box of gadgets.

All within 1 hour. Lol.


----------



## Baten

salla45 said:


> Works perfectly bit-perfect, including DSF files. Tested up to DSF 64 and 192/24 files, no glitching.
> 
> Compared briefly to Mojo. No slouch at all.



Great to hear about bit perfect / glitching, Good 

Can you elaborate on comparisons to mojo or others?

can't wait to receive mine


----------



## salla45

Baten said:


> Great to hear about bit perfect / glitching, Good
> 
> Can you elaborate on comparisons to mojo or others?
> 
> can't wait to receive mine


I will have to wait for a calmer moment to assess more subjectively ref sound quality between devices.

What I meant was, for now, with brief comparison, nothing stands out as lacking; basically I couldn't hear difference in a quick a/b comparison which is great. More musicality and timbre differences may pop up over time and with more critical listening. Will comment accordingly.

I have noticed that Roon is reluctant to play PCM after playing bitperfect DSD files through the btr5. Will investigate settings. Not a big deal for me. Glitching is far more serious and I get that with X7ii and M6 as DACs, but the btr5 hasn't shown any (yet). Will soak test more...


----------



## polarbipolar

salla45 said:


> I will have to wait for a calmer moment to assess more subjectively ref sound quality between devices.
> 
> What I meant was, for now, with brief comparison, nothing stands out as lacking; basically I couldn't hear difference in a quick a/b comparison which is great. More musicality and timbre differences may pop up over time and with more critical listening. Will comment accordingly.
> 
> I have noticed that Roon is reluctant to play PCM after playing bitperfect DSD files through the btr5. Will investigate settings. Not a big deal for me. Glitching is far more serious and I get that with X7ii and M6 as DACs, but the btr5 hasn't shown any (yet). Will soak test more...


Would be very interesting on your thoughts as to comparison with BTR3. Not sure whether to upgrade or not. Any substantial improvements in your opinion? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Fishdo

Mine just arrived as well... though it is still in the packaging until I have some more time later... 

Be interesting to see how it sounds with my EA and ALO cables... and compare with my mojo sound and using an iPhone and the SR15....


----------



## salla45 (Dec 7, 2019)

Just spent the last 2 hrs doing some tests both in USB mode and BT mode.

In USB mode comparing BTR5 with Mojo using Roon, ASIO modes for both.

In BT mode, comparing LDAC with wired mode on LG VG30

Headphones/IEMs used: Beyerdynamic T1 and Fiio FH7

Music wise, been using 24/96 files, Redbook, 24/192, Tidal MQA streams, DSF files, 24/48, etc.
Steve Earle, Jean Michel Jarre, Satriani, Robben Ford, Genesis, Eagles.

When I listen I really want to know if I can live with a product seamlessly; if it compromises the music experience too much to mean it gets uses only in an emergency or when it's other merits (eg size, or microphone) force use temporarily.

Now... briefly I can say after switching between Mojo and BTR5 in USB mode extensively, there is very little in it. Maybe the Mojo has a bit more resolving power, space and smoothness, but it's marginal. Indeed,after switching so many times, I couldn't be honest and say I'd recognise one over the other blind listening. As I write this, am switching still between the 2 and have to keep checking as I forget which I'm listening to. Certainly it's not something I find myself thinking, "darn I should be listening to this via Mojo now" (and that goes for Bluetooth mode also).

I've solved the problem of the BTR5 not wanting to play PCM after DSD with Roon, by selection ASIO mode and DSD over PCM (DoP) in the settings.  So far so good. It's been a champ with no glitching or failures.

As regards Bluetooth LDAC mode, the BTR5 is stable, clean, little difference between BT and USB, but perhaps a bit more air and comprehension of the musical structure with Roon/USB mode vs BT via LG V30.

The differences are small, perhaps so small as to be placebo. I would like to rig up some blind tests. Again, I'm writing this and am having to metaphorically pinch myself when I realise am streaming BT.

Comparing the BTR5 with BTR3, the BTR3 sounds less refined in the treble and not as open as the BTR5. There's not nearly as much power with the BTR3, which makes the BTR5 sound more dynamic. The BTR5 sounds much more of a mature, audiophile product than the BTR3.  BRT5 works MUCH better as a USB DAC with the ability to play native DSD, and HD files, rather than being limited to 16/48 as the BTR3 is. Definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

All this is Good News. I'm loving the fact that this little thing for so little money can do so much. The very fact that it can be compared +vely to a mature dedicated DAC like the Mojo is amazing in itself, but add the exemplary BT performance and this should definitely be another home run for Fiio.

PS... Driving capability is amazing... 600 ohm T1s volume around 40-43/60 for normal listening, FH7 around 19-20. Beware switching between modes as levels are retained, so if you are going from USB mode using high impedance over ears to BT using high sensitivity IEMs beware!!


Great product @FiiO


----------



## Cuebbing

DezHifi said:


> If anyone's interested, here's a BTR5 review that compares the BTR3, ES100 and Q5s.
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://kropka.audio/test/wzmacniacze/fiio-btr5-recenzja/?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg



Thank you, kudos to the reviewer


----------



## DezHifi

Another review for the BTR5,


I too pulled the trigger on the BTR5, will be comparing it against my dragonfly red.


----------



## cleg

DezHifi said:


> Another review for the BTR5,
> 
> 
> I too pulled the trigger on the BTR5, will be comparing it against my dragonfly red.




Thank you for posting it  I went here to do that but it looks like I'm too late. 
So, everyone, please enjoy my review of BTR5, I've tried to make it really detailed, without splitting to unboxing, initial impressions, etc. 
BTW Shanling UP4 is on its way to me, so I hope to make a comparison in near future


----------



## Fishdo (Dec 7, 2019)

Finally got around to opening the BTR5 package... had a quick read of the manual...

my first impression was how small and light it was.. I haven’t had anything similar to this module.

Pairing is straight forward... when starting the BTR will automatically pair with your device but if you have a couple of BT devices you may need to force pair the second device... that’s also very easy and quick.

I am using a CA Solaris with EA Lionheart 2.5mm...

With my iPhone XS Max ... paired upon connection... opened Qobuz and the sound wasn’t there...!! So I turned up the volume on the BTR and went to 100% (60 mark on BTR) and heard a very low sound... I thought “What have I done wrong?!” then I tried the iPhone volume and nearly blew my eardrums out..!! 

With my iPhone on 50% volume I had to turn the BTR down to less than 50% (25 mark on BTR) ... that was just right ...

SQ was very good for such a priced item and it’s size... details and clarity were about 60-70% of my wired listening... using same set up.

Then I tried my AK SR15 with same iems and cable...

Paired up with forced pair easily and the volume this time was not adjustable from both devices... I could only adjust volume on the BTR...

This time round I did have to turn the volume up to around 75% (45 mark) to match the same volume on my iPhone connection...

SQ was good not great but as good as my Audeze LCD i3 cipher BT cable and better than my RHA CL2 BT or RHA T20 BT...

The BT connection was very strong and not seemingly effected by other close by sources or obstacles... I would not use it in a desk top configuration or with a view to replacing my mojo or other source equipment but if you do you probably won’t notice any difference unless you have a good setup..

Overall I am very impressed with this little module.. suits my needs perfectly...

I had been considering getting the Plus Sound Custom BT cable (choose your own cable) but I decided to get this BTR because I could use my own custom cables and a 2.5mm balance output... this option has saved me considerably and is allowing me to quickly and easily switch from wired to BT option...

I would recommend this BTR to anyone looking for the same reasons I have... on the go it’s a great option and a good sound... easy to use as well...

I really like the way it looks and it’s size ... the clip is very nice quality and isn’t the type of plastic that will discolour...

I grabbed a necklace set up that came with a silicone case I had bought a while back... I never thought I would use it when I got it but it’s perfect for the BTR 5 and for using it... I can keep the BTR under my shirt with the cable also hidden away but coming out from my back and neck up to the ears... so it’s just as minimal as the typical BT necklace...

(I can now understand why FiiO decided to make the volume control only  move up in single increments... ! )


----------



## archy121

salla45 said:


> Just spent the last 2 hrs doing some tests both in USB mode and BT mode.
> 
> In USB mode comparing BTR5 with Mojo using Roon, ASIO modes for both.
> 
> ...




Nice job mate. Mine is on order and I can’t wait to get hands on it more so now. 

I also have the V30. Are you able to connect the BTR5 to it using the USB & use it as external DAC ? 

Really curious how it compares to the V30 DAC which I’m very familiar with. You may need a decent audio app such as Neutron or UAPP for it to work properly in bit perfect mode.


----------



## piercer (Dec 7, 2019)

So just my BTR5. It will not pair with my Cayin N8 (I use bluetooth when down the gym).

My ES100 immediately paired with the N8 and has worked wonderfully for months.

Unfortunately the BTR5 is not detecing the N8 and neither is the N8 detecting the BTR5

Very very disappointing 

Update - it pairs with my S10+ using APTX - but still wont pair with the N8 - hope its easy to return this.

Update 2 - They finally found each other, but the connection is only APTX - what should I do

Update 3 - Switched both devices off and on - they then briefly connected with SBC 

Update 4 - tried to reset BTR5 by holding in a button for 10 seconds - BTR5 is now permanently stuck in 'Reconnecting' and wont reset

Update 5 - finally got both Cayin and BTR5 to say that they were connected. BTR5 and CAYIN both showed LDAC (yay!). went to play a song and the Cayin said 'Play song failed' and then they both disconnected.

Much worse experience than ES100 which worked perfectly out of the box

After testing
So it seems that the BTR5 cannot cope with the 'LDAC Quality Priority' setting of the Cayin N8. I have lowered quality to 'Prefer LDAC Connection (auto)' and have a slightly more stable connection, even though it is still disconnecting periodically.

My ES100 has never had the slightest stutter in the quality mode with my N8.

I am so disappointed with the BTR5 - Looks like it will be returned pronto 

Sorry - have got to add this too...

Serviceable bluetooth range of lower quality LDAC from BTR5 to Cayin N8 is about 1m. Seriously, when I start to move away it just dies (and whilst typing this it just dies randomly  ). Even close up there is a lot of electronic flutter and interefernce in the reproduced noise.

Switched back to ES100. Switched to high quality LDAC. Can still hear clear music whilst doing washing up in kitchen and N8 is in living room. There is no flutter, interference or distortion. Really really bad.


----------



## Fishdo (Dec 7, 2019)

@piercer

I am not having a problem with LDAC connection so I am not sure why you’re having a problem...not with Cayin though...

Did you say you did a soft reboot or just turned it off...?

Might be worth factory reset on the BTR...(if you haven’t already that is) then first pair with the Cayin.. We all know that if you ask FiiO you’ll get the standard reply... “Do reset..”!! 

I have found that I prefer the SS and SQ generally of BTR is better (for me) than the M11... and I prefer the mojo sound signature (but I’ll never use it with usb only tried out of interest... after reading @salla45 great  review post earlier...


----------



## salla45 (Dec 8, 2019)

archy121 said:


> Nice job mate. Mine is on order and I can’t wait to get hands on it more so now.
> 
> I also have the V30. Are you able to connect the BTR5 to it using the USB & use it as external DAC ?
> 
> Really curious how it compares to the V30 DAC which I’m very familiar with. You may need a decent audio app such as Neutron or UAPP for it to work properly in bit perfect mode.



thanks.

Yes you can connect BTR5 as USB dac to phone, but for me, the native output from the V30 with UAPP is just fine  with the same DAC-chip in the V30 as the BTR5.
Oddly however, I had to fiddle about with some onboard menu setting to get sound out of the BTR5 in usb mode connected to the V30, I had to switch the gain to Low. Otherwise it was silent.V weird. Maybe it was just coincidence and the device just decided to connect at that time.Also I am getting a slowdown in playback speed listing to 48KHZ files in USB dac mode with the V30 using both the UAPP app AND the Fiio app (@FiiO - can you plse check these bugs?) - anyhow it's feasible with caveats!


----------



## Cuebbing

salla45 said:


> thanks.
> 
> Yes you can connect BTR5 as USB dac to phone, but for me, the native output from the V30 with UAPP is just fine  with the same DAC-chip in the V30 as the BTR5.
> Oddly however, I had to fiddle about with some onboard menu setting to get sound out of the BTR5 in usb mode connected to the V30, I had to switch the gain to Low. Otherwise it was silent.V weird. Maybe it was just coincidence and the device just decided to connect at that time.Also I am getting a slowdown in playback speed listing to 48KHZ files in USB dac mode with the V30 using both the UAPP app AND the Fiio app (@FiiO - can you plse check these bugs?) - anyhow it's feasible with caveats!


Thanks for the info.  Please update us if you learn anything on the USB mode challenges you mentioned with your V30.  I have a V40 and experienced similar flakyness (for lack of a better word) with USB connections.  I have the BTR3 and ES100 (BTR5 on its way) and both didn't want to connect and work with my V40 via USB.  I got them for bluetooth so didn't pursue figuring it out. They work great via bluetooth to the V40.  I also have an ifi xdsd that I got to use for Tidal/MQA and it didn't want to work over USB correctly until I put UAPP on the V40.  With UAPP the V40 and xdsd seem to work fine over USB.


----------



## archy121

salla45 said:


> thanks.
> 
> Yes you can connect BTR5 as USB dac to phone, but for me, the native output from the V30 with UAPP is just fine  with the same DAC-chip in the V30 as the BTR5.
> Oddly however, I had to fiddle about with some onboard menu setting to get sound out of the BTR5 in usb mode connected to the V30, I had to switch the gain to Low. Otherwise it was silent.V weird. Maybe it was just coincidence and the device just decided to connect at that time.Also I am getting a slowdown in playback speed listing to 48KHZ files in USB dac mode with the V30 using both the UAPP app AND the Fiio app (@FiiO - can you plse check these bugs?) - anyhow it's feasible with caveats!



Thanks. Did you use the balanced out when testing ? 
I’m curious to know if using the balanced output gave a noticeable improvement to the audio over v30’s standard jack.


----------



## archy121

Cuebbing said:


> Thanks for the info.  Please update us if you learn anything on the USB mode challenges you mentioned with your V30.  I have a V40 and experienced similar flakyness (for lack of a better word) with USB connections.  I have the BTR3 and ES100 (BTR5 on its way) and both didn't want to connect and work with my V40 via USB.  I got them for bluetooth so didn't pursue figuring it out. They work great via bluetooth to the V40.  I also have an ifi xdsd that I got to use for Tidal/MQA and it didn't want to work over USB correctly until I put UAPP on the V40.  With UAPP the V40 and xdsd seem to work fine over USB.



Did you try to get in touch with the UAPP author on these forums regards this ?


----------



## piercer (Dec 8, 2019)

Wow, I am so not impressed with this device, its instructions and its stability.

1) Holding in the A button for more than 10 seconds does NOT reset the device. It comes back exactly as if you had turned it off and on again
2) Holding in B and C for 5 seconds does not clear the current pairing. Instead it shows DFU on the display and when I turn it on again it tries to reconnect to the same device.
3) It LDAP implementation seems completely flakey and disconnects all them time.
4) The bluetooth range is awful (at most 1m)
5) The sound (when I get it) is full of electronic distortion and flutter.

Fiio - Have I got a duff unit? How do I clear a pairing? How do I reset it? Have you only tested it with mobile phones?


----------



## salla45

archy121 said:


> Thanks. Did you use the balanced out when testing ?
> I’m curious to know if using the balanced output gave a noticeable improvement to the audio over v30’s standard jack.


Sorry I don't have a working 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable to use. My next investment will probably to get a good replacement cable for my FH7's. Out of $$$ at the moment


----------



## salla45

Cuebbing said:


> Thanks for the info.  Please update us if you learn anything on the USB mode challenges you mentioned with your V30.  I have a V40 and experienced similar flakyness (for lack of a better word) with USB connections.  I have the BTR3 and ES100 (BTR5 on its way) and both didn't want to connect and work with my V40 via USB.  I got them for bluetooth so didn't pursue figuring it out. They work great via bluetooth to the V40.  I also have an ifi xdsd that I got to use for Tidal/MQA and it didn't want to work over USB correctly until I put UAPP on the V40.  With UAPP the V40 and xdsd seem to work fine over USB.



Am not too bothered either to try much further with linking it to the V30 as my goal was to get a gr8 BT device which works well as a desktop portable/2nd option and the BTR5 checks the boxes. I will try to hook it up to my Note 8 and see if it encounters the same issues as I had with the V30. And if I do debug further on the V30, will let you know


----------



## Fishdo

Would anyone know how you get the FiiO app to recognise my music files that are in my iPhone files app?

My Onkyo HF player has them and updates every time I open the HF app...

but the FiiO music app doesn’t pick them up when it scans though it does pick up my iTunes music... 

I tried to copy and paste without any joy... 

Would anyone know if it is possible for the FiiO app to pick up the music in my files app?

Thanks


----------



## vaxick

Amazon sent me an email today stating my estimated arrival time is now Wednesday.


----------



## ClieOS

*For those using Android, please don't forget to try the FiiO Control app: link*

It will allow you to change setting in BTR5 without going into FiiO Music app.


----------------------------------------------------------




Fishdo said:


> Would anyone know how you get the FiiO app to recognise my music files that are in my iPhone files app?
> 
> My Onkyo HF player has them and updates every time I open the HF app...
> 
> ...



Besides having the ability to change BTR5 setting, is there any reason why you will want to use FiiO Music app for music playback? There reason to ask is because there is nothing particularly special about the app in anyway will make BTR5 better sounding. The 2nd thing to note is that iPhone, as well as all iDevices, only works up to AAC codec in Bluetooth, even using FiiO app won't change that. Lastly, music from iTune has DRM built-in, so third party app won't be able to play them back.


----------



## archy121

Waiting on mine.

Anyone know if this will work with iPhone using Lightning to microUSB OTG cable ?

Maybe @FiiO can confirm this. 

Cable like this one as opposed to using Camera kit.

90 Degree Elbow DAC AMP HiFi OTG Cable For Lightning To Micro USB For iPhone iOS 10 To 12 With Decoders Pure Copper Core
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/AQ4VoERkX


----------



## Jayden16

archy121 said:


> Waiting on mine.
> 
> Anyone know if this will work with iPhone using Lightning to microUSB OTG cable ?
> 
> ...


The BTR5 uses USB-C, not Micro USB


----------



## archy121

Jayden16 said:


> The BTR5 uses USB-C, not Micro USB



Sorry - Silly mistake by me. 
There is a Lightning to USB-C OTG as well..
They do micro USB & need to select USB-C. 

@FiiO would this work with BTR5 ?

Meenova Lightning-to-MicroUSB USB DAC OTG Cable for iPhone/iPad/iPod Chord Mojo Hugo Pha3 Fiio USB DAC HiFi Oppo HA2 K5
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/piNh00KEX


----------



## Baten

Advancedmp3players just updated my order status to 'Picking' woop woop 

Can't wait! I plan to play with the app features and use it as a BT/USB DAC+amp with my laptop at work,
with my MB660 that has a mic so will look how good the mic input is, too.


----------



## psikey

Baten said:


> Advancedmp3players just updated my order status to 'Picking' woop woop
> 
> Can't wait! I plan to play with the app features and use it as a BT/USB DAC+amp with my laptop at work,
> with my MB660 that has a mic so will look how good the mic input is, too.


Mines despatched now.


----------



## archy121

psikey said:


> Mines despatched now.



Mine too !


----------



## UNOE

Does anyone know if this would work as a transport to feed another DAC like Mojo via Bluetooth?


----------



## tomwebster

archy121 said:


> Waiting on mine.
> 
> Anyone know if this will work with iPhone using Lightning to microUSB OTG cable ?
> 
> ...




No it doesn’t work with iPhone. Got mine a few days ago and really enjoying it so far.

Tried it with the Apple camera kit / USB adapter and it says that the device uses too much power and so doesn’t work.

Sounds good enough to me over Bluetooth however so no too disappointed.


----------



## archy121

tomwebster said:


> No it doesn’t work with iPhone. Got mine a few days ago and really enjoying it so far.
> 
> Tried it with the Apple camera kit / USB adapter and it says that the device uses too much power and so doesn’t work.
> 
> Sounds good enough to me over Bluetooth however so no too disappointed.



Thanks for that feedback. Would’ve
 been nice to get DSD256 quality straight to earphones. 

Am I right guessing your apple camera kit is the newer one with USB-C ?


----------



## tomwebster

archy121 said:


> Thanks for that feedback. Would’ve
> been nice to get DSD256 quality straight to earphones.
> 
> Am I right guessing your apple camera kit is the newer one with USB-C ?




I don’t think there is a usb-c one is there?

Tried the original (small) camera kit and the larger USB3 one with the same result. Both of these are lightning to USB A and then I used a normal USB A to USB C adapter/ cable to the BTR5.

Works great as a USB DAC from my PC and to be honest having got fed up with dongles using a dragonfly red previously even if it had worked from iPhone I would probably stick with Bluetooth.

Haven’t tried it with direct USB C from my iPad Pro but will give that a go tomorrow.


----------



## Fishdo (Dec 9, 2019)

For linking my mojo I used the apple usb c to usb a female that I use with my MacBook Pro...then a data usb a to micro usb...


----------



## ClieOS

tomwebster said:


> No it doesn’t work with iPhone. Got mine a few days ago and really enjoying it so far.
> 
> Tried it with the Apple camera kit / USB adapter and *it says that the device uses too much power and so doesn’t work*.
> 
> Sounds good enough to me over Bluetooth however so no too disappointed.



Have you disabled the charging on BTR5 first?


----------



## Cuebbing

archy121 said:


> Did you try to get in touch with the UAPP author on these forums regards this ?


Hi, no sir I didn't contact UAPP.  I didn't put much effort into troubleshooting my LG V40 USB connectivity with the BTR3 and ES100.  It does function correctly via USB with my ifi xdsd (only with UAPP installed).  I didn't mention but I also have the PowerDAC and 9038s and they don't work correctly either.  I did connect the 9038s to a Win10 notebook and it worked.  I assumed it was a LG issue (driver?) and figured I'd mess with it later.


----------



## Cuebbing

archy121 said:


> Thanks. Did you use the balanced out when testing ?
> I’m curious to know if using the balanced output gave a noticeable improvement to the audio over v30’s standard jack.


My BTR5 arrived today it was fully charged so I connected to my LG V40 (I think same dac as V30 but tuned differently) via bluetooth.  Been listening to music for about an hour or so and with balanced connection.  With the BTR5 BT connection initial thing that is noticeable (compared to using the LG standard jack) is that it is more dynamic/louder.


----------



## salla45

Has anyone noticed any


Cuebbing said:


> My BTR5 arrived today it was fully charged so I connected to my LG V40 (I think same dac as V30 but tuned differently) via bluetooth.  Been listening to music for about an hour or so and with balanced connection.  With the BTR5 BT connection initial thing that is noticeable (compared to using the LG standard jack) is that it is more dynamic/louder.


interesting. Yes same DAC(s) in the BTR5 as LG V30 and V40, and possibly other LG series. Different implementation, like you say. When you say "more dynamic/louder" do you mean it sounds more alive, more incisive, via the BTR5, even when volume levels are as matched as you can make them?


----------



## salla45

I'm really enjoying the BTR5. I've been listening to it only since getting it last Friday. For me, that's a very +ve indictment, as if it were subpar and leaving me with doubts about its integrity soundwise, then I'd be crawling back to my "full cream" devices already (X7ii/M11).

The point is that the BTR5 is a really fun device which raises the Bluetooth bar to "good enough" to be usable for regular use without being drawn to deficiencies. It's really rather cool to know that there are now such devices available which can raise the status of a decent phone with LDAC output (for example) to compete with basic DAPs, without resorting to using extra wires, dongles and such.


----------



## salla45

UNOE said:


> Does anyone know if this would work as a transport to feed another DAC like Mojo via Bluetooth?


I guess the USB is one way -> input only ->BTR5?

Better direct this to @FiiO - perhaps they could comment on the feasibility, viability and you could discuss rationale also with them? I can't quite see the need myself


----------



## Cuebbing (Dec 10, 2019)

My BTR5 arrived today and I fired it up, connected to my phone via bluetooth and have been listening to music for a little while now.  Using CA Atlas on the balance connection and Tidal hifi/YouTube Music videos.
Initial impression is that this BTR5 review that was recently shared nails what I'm experiencing.


DezHifi said:


> If anyone's interested, here's a BTR5 review that compares the BTR3, ES100 and Q5s.
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://kropka.audio/test/wzmacniacze/fiio-btr5-recenzja/?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg



One slight difference is that the reviewer didn't notice a difference between the DAC clock settings but I swear I notice a slight improvement when I raise the value to 1 (little smoother).

Compared to my BTR3/ES100 it is bigger/heavier enough that it keeps folding over when clipped on my shirt collar.  If I'm looking at it correctly when mounted in the plastic clip the BTR5 has the iem cable plug on top which encourages the folding over.  With the clip design it allows you to mount it upside down so I suspect I'll be doing that to lesson the stress/folding on the shirt collar.
All in all this thing is off to a good start, sounds good.  I like to EQ so I do wish the BTR5 & BTR3 would support EQ over LDAC (like me ES100) but I don't know if my ears can really notice a difference between LDAC and APTX HD, I guess it's the principle of it.


----------



## Cuebbing

salla45 said:


> Has anyone noticed any
> 
> interesting. Yes same DAC(s) in the BTR5 as LG V30 and V40, and possibly other LG series. Different implementation, like you say. When you say "more dynamic/louder" do you mean it sounds more alive, more incisive, via the BTR5, even when volume levels are as matched as you can make them?


Yes sir you described it very well.


----------



## salla45

Cuebbing said:


> Yes sir you described it very well.


Cool. Thanks. I'm getting a balanced cable set for my FH7s, next purchase!


----------



## ClieOS

UNOE said:


> Does anyone know if this would work as a transport to feed another DAC like Mojo via Bluetooth?





salla45 said:


> I guess the USB is one way -> input only ->BTR5?
> 
> Better direct this to @FiiO - perhaps they could comment on the feasibility, viability and you could discuss rationale also with them? I can't quite see the need myself



For a device to receive BT signal then output digitally to an USB DAC, it needs to have USB Host function built-in (which probably needs some kind of OS, decent processing speed and ROM). That is not impossible to do technically, especially since BTR5 has XMOS chipset, but it is well beyond what an BT adapter is intended to do. To have all the hardware and software needed to implement this kind of features, you might as well build an DAP out of it.


----------



## Cuebbing

salla45 said:


> Cool. Thanks. I'm getting a balanced cable set for my FH7s, next purchase!


Sweet, I love my FH7s.  I use the short FIIO mmcx balance cable connected to the ES100 and now BTR5.  When I want some bass I can add with EQ and reminds me of going out to night clubs.


----------



## Cuebbing

Cuebbing said:


> Sweet, I love my FH7s.  I use the short FIIO mmcx balance cable connected to the ES100 and now BTR5.  When I want some bass I can add with EQ and reminds me of going out to night clubs.


If you plan to clip the BTR5 on your shirt collar the short cable is the sh!#.  I move around alot and hate having a longer cable rolled up and just hanging there tugging on the collar waiting to snag on something.
https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/161830.html?templateId=1133604


----------



## piercer

I returned my BTR5 yesterday. I would like to hear from Fiio as to whether they think my unit was faulty or whether it is actually incompatible with the Cayin N8 and or other DAPs. Did they only test this with mobile phones at a range of less than 1m?

If they think it was faulty I will order another. If not I am very unimpressed.


----------



## tomwebster

ClieOS said:


> Have you disabled the charging on BTR5 first?



Genius, thanks I hadn’t thought of that.

Can confirm that with charging turned off it works perfectly with iPhone via the camera kit/ USB adapter.

Also works fine through just USB C on my iPad even with charging turned on.

Even more pleased with it now.


----------



## ClieOS

Cuebbing said:


> If you plan to clip the BTR5 on your shirt collar the short cable is the sh!#.  I move around alot and hate having a longer cable rolled up and just hanging there tugging on the collar waiting to snag on something.
> https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/161830.html?templateId=1133604



Make this balanced cable myself, about 45cm in length and is perfect for BTR5 clipping to my shirt collar.



 



piercer said:


> Did they only test this with mobile phones at a range of less than 1m?



Just tested my BTR5 (with Sony Xperia 5, LDAC) in an open space, I get over 10m without any signal dropping out.


----------



## tomwebster

tomwebster said:


> Genius, thanks I hadn’t thought of that.
> 
> Can confirm that with charging turned off it works perfectly with iPhone via the camera kit/ USB adapter.
> 
> ...



Works perfectly with 24/192 files on iPhone, don’t have anything above this to test with but this sounds great.


----------



## psikey

My comparison work for today


----------



## DezHifi

I got mine today.
Initial impressions with my Hyland Saturn One.
Drives them loud enough.
Comparing to my DFR (both usb mode and 3.5mm):
Slightly more congested (noticeably poorer imaging), bass is a little tighter, similarly wide and deep soundstage. However, I would prefer the BTR5 over the DFR because of the bluetooth convenience. I did notice any SQ difference in bluetooth and wired.

Anyone played with the filter and other settings in the control app yet?

Btw, if anyone is interested, you can download the latest firmware here :
https://translate.google.com/transl...oteContent.do?id=201910281104318430028&tid=16

For instructions on how to flash :
https://translate.googleusercontent...700283&usg=ALkJrhjxZp4p_WSSxsUl_zgm-XWCvzDpVA


----------



## psikey (Dec 10, 2019)

Out of the box impression. Player itself is a bit larger than I expected and not pleased they used a plastic tray for the packaging   and the clip holder looks like thin brittle plastic. Should have put a lanyard hole on the player itself.

Build of the BTR5 itself looks quality.

And to initial impressions on SQ over LDAC (Best quality) form my Sony A105   

We really are at a point where you can drop the wire. Sounds fantastic over SE or balanced with my SE846's.

Much better than the BTR3 and holds a signal over BT even when I'm two rooms away with walls between me and the DAP. I couldn't reliably use the BTR3 because even having my body in the way interrupted the signal.

Keeping this, but trouble now I have three great sounding devices with the DFC, A105, BTR5.

White is Balance, Black is SE




Can only have the volume on 19 on the BTR5 with my SE846's (A105 BT is max).


----------



## hardbop

I've been listening to the BTR5 for a couple days, doing some direct comparisons and settling in for normal listening.

My use case will be pairing with my 3.5mm jack-less Note 10+. My previous Samsung phones all had subpar sound quality from the headphones jack anyway. With LDAC the sound quality is a net positive. Since I've already upgraded to full size BT 'phones to circumvent the aforementioned headphone jack, I'll mostly be using this amp for my IEMs.



So far,  I've run it with the Tin T2 Pros, Tin P1 and my custom JHA Layla's. As a cruel benchmark, I also pit it against my AK380. 

The music I used for direct comparison was the beginning of Joanna Newsom "Occident";  the beginning and 1:40 mark of Holly Herndon "Frontier" and the 3 minute mark of Aldous Harding "The Barrel". 

In general, the BTR5 has strong bass, if a little lacking in detail. The mids to upper mids are excellent and the highs are a little lacking. I'm not yet sure if it's rolled off or if the peaks and valleys of the frequency response are working against it. Sometimes the highs sound thin and other moments I can hear the clarity I'm expecting. 

The T2 Pros, for example, can have its vaunted treble take a turn for the sibilant. As a trade off, there is a greatly increased bass presence. The mids and vocals still punch way above their weight class. 

Similarly,  the P1's have an excellently represented midrange and their strength is still with the vocals. The low end detail is present, but somehow not as authoritative as the little brother of the Tin lineup. Highs still sound rolled off, so maybe the amp doesn't quite have enough power. There's enough volume to listen comfortably at the 60% range and isn't ear splitting at 100%. I think it will still be adequate, but I'm not confident that there's enough to really get the planars going. 

The BTR5 pushes my custom IEMs much better than any of my previous phones could ever do. It was usually too much a compromise to listen straight from my phone and would opt for lesser in-ears when isolation was required. 

The general sound signature of the FiiO amp is confirmed with the overly critical Layla's. However,  the pairing sounds fun with no major downsides, so it should be a happy medium for daily portable listening sessions. 


The form factor and usability of the amp already works better and more conveniently alongside my cellphone than a entirely separate DAP or the USB DACs I've used. I'll have to experiment with the filters later and since I'm using LDAC, there's no EQ to fuss over. The rest of the UI has been flawless.

I can go into more detail, if anyone has specific questions. Otherwise, I can comfortably recommend the FiiO BTR5.


----------



## salla45

Wonder if it might be worth making a sub-thread for performance of the BTR5 with devices via bluetooth. I am getting better performance via my V30 than Note 8 it seems for example. Others are getting highly variable results certainly in terms of connectivity distance. Maybe SQ differences also.


----------



## salla45 (Dec 10, 2019)

hardbop said:


> I've been listening to the BTR5 for a couple days, doing some direct comparisons and settling in for normal listening.
> 
> My use case will be pairing with my 3.5mm jack-less Note 10+. My previous Samsung phones all had subpar sound quality from the headphones jack anyway. With LDAC the sound quality is a net positive. Since I've already upgraded to full size BT 'phones to circumvent the aforementioned headphone jack, I'll mostly be using this amp for my IEMs.
> 
> ...



Are your listening observations purely based on BT connection? If BT, what are you using as transport (phone model and or DAP details?) and software (UAPP? Fiio?) and mode (LDAC only?)

Nice to start to read more audio critiques.

Cheers!


----------



## salla45 (Dec 10, 2019)

"Sweet, I love my FH7s. I use the short FIIO mmcx balance cable connected to the ES100 and now BTR5. When I want some bass I can add with EQ and reminds me of going out to night clubs."


Nice. FH7 are the bomb. One of my best ever purchases for audio. Remarkable gear.


----------



## salla45

ClieOS said:


> For a device to receive BT signal then output digitally to an USB DAC, it needs to have USB Host function built-in (which probably needs some kind of OS, decent processing speed and ROM). That is not impossible to do technically, especially since BTR5 has XMOS chipset, but it is well beyond what an BT adapter is intended to do. To have all the hardware and software needed to implement this kind of features, you might as well build an DAP out of it.


I think my question would be just how much benefit would one derive from sending a lossy BT signal to the Mojo in the firstplace, especially when the native output from the BTR5 is just dandy anyway?  I use chromecast audio to output to my Mojo using optical out for wireless applications; at least it's lossless and offers it up to 24/96 playback.


----------



## Cuebbing

ClieOS said:


> Make this balanced cable myself, about 45cm in length and is perfect for BTR5 clipping to my shirt collar.


That's cool.  I have a lot of cables I would love to shorten.  I need to get better at soldering tiny wires.


----------



## piercer

ClieOS said:


> Make this balanced cable myself, about 45cm in length and is perfect for BTR5 clipping to my shirt collar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that - I imagine my unit was faulty then - shame  Have towait for the next batch


----------



## Crixus00

Mine rocked up in the post this morning. Initial impressions are very good (only listened to a few tracks so far)!

Upgrading from BTR3, paired to my Shure se846 and Note 10 +. This unit seems to pack significantly more power. Lots of bass and plenty of detail. This is via the 3.5 jack haven't tried balanced yet.

With the form factor and lcd display it might be the perfect companion for IEMs and travel at this price point. I paid £85.


----------



## psikey

piercer said:


> I returned my BTR5 yesterday. I would like to hear from Fiio as to whether they think my unit was faulty or whether it is actually incompatible with the Cayin N8 and or other DAPs. Did they only test this with mobile phones at a range of less than 1m?
> 
> If they think it was faulty I will order another. If not I am very unimpressed.



I've used mine today with Sony A105 and Samsung S10+ and been amazed at the range. Easily 10m with two partition offices between me and source on my desk. I couldn't get a stable signal with my BTR3 if my body blocked the path. Not dropped signal all day with the BTR5.


----------



## Devodonaldson

hardbop said:


> I've been listening to the BTR5 for a couple days, doing some direct comparisons and settling in for normal listening.
> 
> My use case will be pairing with my 3.5mm jack-less Note 10+. My previous Samsung phones all had subpar sound quality from the headphones jack anyway. With LDAC the sound quality is a net positive. Since I've already upgraded to full size BT 'phones to circumvent the aforementioned headphone jack, I'll mostly be using this amp for my IEMs.
> 
> ...


Have you tried it as a USB DAC with your Note to see if it is still lacking or simply just a result of Bluetooth transmission? Also, using LDAC, did you go into developers settings to change the LDAC setting, otherwise, the best effort is giving you worse overall quality than APTX HD.


----------



## archy121 (Dec 10, 2019)

First impressions Very happy - sounds is more full and has better 3D soundstage compared to BTR3.

Tested BTR5 with LG V30 across LDAC using BGVP DM6 on balanced custom copper litz cable.

Early listening hours yet but it’s possibly even better than listening wired from the LG as that has no balance out. Sounds is more intimate and holographic with BTR5 which I’m enjoying right now. Swapping to non balanced out sound on BTR5 is more closer to the LG sound and overall less musically involving. 

This is my first experience of using a balanced earphone cable and its turning out to be a very positive one thanks in part to the balance out on the BTR5. 

Not tried the USB mode as I don’t have correct cable yet. I’m looking forward to comparing the LG sound vs the BTR5 USB DAC. I will probably end up using it as a USB DAC with my daily phone - Iphone. 

Wondering which Mode uses up more battery - USB vs BT LDAC ?

Only negative so far is the slightly bigger size which is outweighed by the improvements the BTR5 brings. 
Hopefully a better clip design will come out or a case that negates it.


----------



## digititus

archy121 said:


> First impressions very happy - sounds more full and 3D than BTR3 which makes makes it more musical to my ears.
> 
> Maybe it’s even better than listening wired from the LG as that has no balance out. This is my first experience of using a balanced earphone cable.
> Not tried the USB mode as I don’t have cable yet.
> ...


The V30 and BTR5 use the same Sabre DAC. The BTR5 probably has more power.


----------



## archy121 (Dec 10, 2019)

digititus said:


> The V30 and BTR5 use the same Sabre DAC. The BTR5 probably has more power.



Sorry did an edit of my post after you quoted it.

Yes they do use same DAC Chips but there are other component factors as well that contribute to the overall sound.

The LG is my dedicated DAP. It is rooted and running in High Impedance Mode with plenty of power. Even so I’m finding myself enjoying the sound from BTR5 more across LDAC with Balanced output.

It could be that the Balanced output offered by the BTR5 is the only differentiator that is making the sound more musical for me. Sound is more holographic 3d, intimate and the bass sounds fuller.

Not sure how accurate it is sounding technically but it certainly has me listening to lot of music right now than I had intending to.


----------



## Devodonaldson

archy121 said:


> First impressions Very happy - sounds is more full and has better 3D soundstage compared to BTR3.
> 
> Tested BTR5 with LG V30 across LDAC using BGVP DM6 on balanced custom copper litz cable.
> 
> ...


Not sure you'll be able to use as USB DAC with iPhone. iPhone won't allow BTR3 as USB DAC, reports as requiring too much power, even though charging mode is off.


----------



## tomwebster

Devodonaldson said:


> Not sure you'll be able to use as USB DAC with iPhone. iPhone won't allow BTR3 as USB DAC, reports as requiring too much power, even though charging mode is off.



Works as USB DAC from iPhone as long as charging is turned off in the BTR5 menu.


----------



## archy121

tomwebster said:


> Works as USB DAC from iPhone as long as charging is turned off in the BTR5 menu.



Something you set through FIIO App ?


----------



## tomwebster

archy121 said:


> Something you set through FIIO App ?



No, through the menu on the device. Can probably do it in the app also but haven’t got round to trying that.


----------



## archy121

tomwebster said:


> No, through the menu on the device. Can probably do it in the app also but haven’t got round to trying that.



Cheers. Haven’t got around to reading the instructions yet.


----------



## psikey

tomwebster said:


> No, through the menu on the device. Can probably do it in the app also but haven’t got round to trying that.


Yes, you can do in Fiio App too or menu on player.


----------



## tmb821

This no longer available on amazon us?


----------



## NWLierly

Not yet available - those of us who have them were likely early pre-orders



tmb821 said:


> This no longer available on amazon us?


----------



## NWLierly

first day impressions are good  - only tested against the Tin P1 so far, which are the primary reason I bought the device, everything else I use on the go works just find with my ES100

I have a limited selection of reference amps to test against (the E1DA PD was my go to for these IEMs previously) and the bass performance that doesn't exist when paired with the ES100 is way better, still not thunderous and labored at sub-bass levels (which works "better" on the E1DA)

The size, build, and interface on the device itself are awesome - the FiiO Music app as the only way to control the device from my phone is unfriendly. Pausing music already playing when I am going to adjust audio settings is NOT desired behavior.

Edit: got mine from HiFiGo as a pre-order, in case the person asking about amazon wants somewhere that is actually selling them


----------



## hardbop

@Devodonaldson @salla45

My listening for initial impressions was all done over bluetooth using my Samsung Note 10+ as a transport streaming via the Tidal app playing HIFI and master quality songs. I have long since enabled developer options on my phone and regularly adjust the bluetooth audio settings when switching connections. I briefly tried the FiiO app and could hear no appreciable differences. 

I tested the USB connection from my phone and immediately noticed the veil. The mid range is recessed but it's not quite as bad as it was in previous cellphone models. I've used the USB output on my Note 10+ for other DACs previously, mainly the Grace m9xx, and was able to tune out the deficiency using a little EQ.

Next, I'll dig up my balanced mmcx cable from ALO and listen more.


----------



## bestbacon

Just picked up my Btr5, have heard reports that the es100 sounds better in balanced mode in a youtube video made in Chinese. I will disclose my report in 2 days time. I was lucky to get one of the 60 units that arrived into Canada. Supposedly 180 units were expected to come but a fewer than expected quantity was delivered.


----------



## salla45

hardbop said:


> @Devodonaldson @salla45
> 
> My listening for initial impressions was all done over bluetooth using my Samsung Note 10+ as a transport streaming via the Tidal app playing HIFI and master quality songs. I have long since enabled developer options on my phone and regularly adjust the bluetooth audio settings when switching connections. I briefly tried the FiiO app and could hear no appreciable differences.
> 
> ...



Thanks. 

Not really getting the veil you mention when using it either in LDAC or USB mode with my PC and Roon.

The BTR5 runs my Beyerdynamic T1s with aplomb and they're no slouches in the detail/resolution department.

In fact Im using it as my main device for the moment, relegated the Mojo to duties in the kitchen via chromecast to feed monitors in there.

I must have cloth ears!


----------



## UNOE

archy121 said:


> Sorry did an edit of my post after you quoted it.
> 
> Yes they do use same DAC Chips but there are other component factors as well that contribute to the overall sound.
> 
> ...


The Fiio has 2 of the same DAC chips that are in the v30. But only uses only uses one DAC in SO mode. That what the chip graphic illustrates on there site.
So there a huge difference. I wonder if we could use it with a balanced to single ended adapter to play in the car I rather use both chips I don’t know why only one chip is used in single ended mode.


----------



## salla45

UNOE said:


> The Fiio has 2 of the same DAC chips that are in the v30. But only uses only uses one DAC in SO mode. That what the chip graphic illustrates on there site.
> So there a huge difference. I wonder if we could use it with a balanced to single ended adapter to play in the car I rather use both chips I don’t know why only one chip is used in single ended mode.


I had read that you can go from balance to SO but not the other way. For whatever reason I have no idea.


----------



## hardbop

salla45 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Not really getting the veil you mention when using it either in LDAC or USB mode with my PC and Roon.
> 
> ...



The veil I refer to only occurs when using the headphone jack or USB on my Samsung phones. I think it's the way Samsung processes music, but I don't hear it any other times I use my phones as a transport. It's why I started using bluetooth headphones years ago with my Note 5 or S8. Hopefully now we're talking about the same thing. Always trust your ears.

I tried out the balanced output with an old ALO silver cable on the Tin P1's a few hours ago and I haven't moved on from this pairing yet. If I'm reading the specs (and hearing) right, there's quite a bit more power from the balanced out and it really does the planars good. I wasn't expecting to use the balanced out, but this will surely be my go to. Any minor sound issues don't stack up with how engaging it is to listen to.

Sometimes there is fade in or a soft pop in that interrupts the beginning of songs regardless of BT or USB input. Anyone else pick up on this?


----------



## salla45 (Dec 11, 2019)

hardbop said:


> The veil I refer to only occurs when using the headphone jack or USB on my Samsung phones. I think it's the way Samsung processes music, but I don't hear it any other times I use my phones as a transport. It's why I started using bluetooth headphones years ago with my Note 5 or S8. Hopefully now we're talking about the same thing. Always trust your ears.
> 
> I tried out the balanced output with an old ALO silver cable on the Tin P1's a few hours ago and I haven't moved on from this pairing yet. If I'm reading the specs (and hearing) right, there's quite a bit more power from the balanced out and it really does the planars good. I wasn't expecting to use the balanced out, but this will surely be my go to. Any minor sound issues don't stack up with how engaging it is to listen to.
> 
> Sometimes there is fade in or a soft pop in that interrupts the beginning of songs regardless of BT or USB input. Anyone else pick up on this?



Oh, sorry I thought you were referring to the output from the BTR5.

Yes i get you with the samsung line out signature sound. Ive always had samsung phones and never liked the sound from the 3.5mm jack. It's a lifeless sound to my ears. Just doesn't engage me.

It's why I got the V30 as my "fun" phone. I use the Note 8 for work as it really is a good workhorse, but for music... meh!

PS... I've really not used phones for music via usb at all as I had interference with my Mojo and stuck with DAP for the last few years, so I can't really comment on veiling via USB.

PPS... not noticed any anomalies with the lead-ins to track, like pops or fade-in. Will listen out for it.


----------



## J_3000 (Dec 11, 2019)

Is there some idea when the BTR5 would be available from European Amazon?


----------



## psikey (Dec 11, 2019)

Well had it 24 hrs now and for mobile use I'm now a BT LDAC convert. Stunning audio quality for the price an super convenient going wireless when out and about with controls easy to hand. Using balanced, but SE also great to my Shure SE846's. The DAC to PC also works perfectly but I'm unlikely to use it for this feature.

I will still be using my Sony DAP for use wired at home and my DFC with PC/Speakers.

So much better than the BTR3 other than getting close to being too large and less battery life. I get excellent BT connection at all times even at 10m away (had serious issues with BTR3 connection).

Working flawlessly with my Samsung S10+ phone or my Sony A105 DAP.


----------



## megabigeye

UNOE said:


> I wonder if we could use it with a balanced to single ended adapter to play in the car I rather use both chips I don’t know why only one chip is used in single ended mode.


NO!  It'll cause a short within the amp.



salla45 said:


> I had read that you can go from balance to SO but not the other way. For whatever reason I have no idea.


A balanced amp has separate channels for R+, R–, L+, and L–; thus a balanced cable has four separate conductors, one for each channel.
A single-ended amp has separate channels for R+ and L+, but R– and L– are combined in a common GND; thus a single-ended cable has three conductors.
Using a balanced–to–single-ended (balanced amp, single-ended headphone) adapter would cause a short between the R– and L– channels within the amp.
Using a single-ended–to–balanced (single-ended amp, balanced headphone) adapter is essentially the same as using a single-ended headphone and will not cause a short.


----------



## Baten

Indeed. Don't go balanced to unbalanced people. Perfect stupid way to break your gear.


----------



## ClieOS

UNOE said:


> I wonder if we could use it with a *balanced to single ended adapter *to play in the car I rather use both chips I don’t know why only one chip is used in single ended mode.



Like others have said, don't do that as it will short circuit the balanced output, and risk burning the circuit all together.

FiiO explains it long ago, that using only one chip on the 3.5mm is mainly to save battery life. This way 3.5mm user will get a bit more time out of BTR5 than 2.5mm user.  




salla45 said:


> I had read that you can go from balance to SO but not the other way. For whatever reason I have no idea.



Balanced headphone + Balanced-to-single-ended adapter + single-ended output = YES

Single-ended headphone + singled-ended-to-balanced adapter + balanced output = NEVER


----------



## 511634

How is the battery BTR3 vs BTR5 vs ES100?

Too bad Qudelix 5K dac/amp won't be out until April/May (and even that's just a guess). The thing will be an absolute beast compared to the BTR5.


----------



## FiiO

tomwebster said:


> Works as USB DAC from iPhone as long as charging is turned off in the BTR5 menu.


Yes: 





You would need the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK)  for help as well.

Best regards


----------



## Baten

Can someone help me, I just got my BTR5 from UK.

I am on iPhone / iOS, I cannot see the device from Fiio Music BT Control app. Is BTR5 supported yet on iOS?


----------



## Baten (Dec 14, 2019)

So the BT control APP does not see BTR5, I can't configure any settings

Secondly I do not have microphone input using simple TRSS 3.5mm  this works on ES100
this when testing on OSX, midi settings doesn't even show an "input" option for BTR5, just sound output in 16-bit and 32-bit

if there is no microphone connection possible I might have to send it back, I bought it with mic support in mind. this sucks.


----------



## ClieOS

Baten said:


> So the BT control APP does not see BTR5, I can't configure any settings
> 
> Secondly I do not have microphone input using simple TRSS 3.5mm  this works on ES100
> this when testing on OSX, midi settings doesn't even show an "input" option for BTR5, just sound output in 16-bit and 32-bit
> ...



You confuse me a little - do you mean you have (on-board) microphone input on ES100 while using it as a Mac? I actually never see a mic input when connecting my ES100 to Windows 10, but only output.

Regardless, do you have the latest firmware on BTR5?


----------



## SoundMuppet

When using the BTR5 I pause music on my phone, after a little while a small quiet sound happens. Sounds like the headphones loses power or something, in other words it sounds like electricity is turned on/off. This same sound happens when I start playing something on my phone before the actual music starts. Is this normal? I'm guessing this is normal and have something to do with power saving.  I just want to be sure nothing is wrong


----------



## jsmiller58

SoundMuppet said:


> When using the BTR5 I pause music on my phone, after a little while a small quiet sound happens. Sounds like the headphones loses power or something, in other words it sounds like electricity is turned on/off. This same sound happens when I start playing something on my phone before the actual music starts. Is this normal? I'm guessing this is normal and have something to do with power saving.  I just want to be sure nothing is wrong


Sounds like the amp is going into off or low power state.  Not uncommon - my R6 Pro does the same thing.  What you are hearing when the music ends and before the amp powers down is the noise floor of the combination of the amp and your earphones.


----------



## FiiO

Baten said:


> So the BT control APP does not see BTR5, I can't configure any settings
> 
> Secondly I do not have microphone input using simple TRSS 3.5mm  this works on ES100
> this when testing on OSX, midi settings doesn't even show an "input" option for BTR5, just sound output in 16-bit and 32-bit
> ...


Dear user,

1. How to use FiiO BT control? Enter the 'FiiO BT Control' menu, then briefly press the BT device's power button; Tap on the device name displayed to enter controlling

2. Could not understand your problem with the microphone. The BTR5 supports the CTIA standard for line control as well as line microphone. But the headsets with OMTP protocol only support normal listening.

Best regards


----------



## Baten

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> 1. How to use FiiO BT control? Enter the 'FiiO BT Control' menu, then briefly press the BT device's power button; Tap on the device name displayed to enter controlling
> 
> ...



Hi Fiio thanks for the answer

1. I followed instruction but still having problems. Will contact the seller

2. Thank you, the mic is my own problem and no problem of the BTR, my bad.


----------



## KittySneeze

Does the device need to be fully charged prior to using it for the first time? I know this was recommended for the Q5s, but wasn’t sure if it applied to all FiiO devices.

Likewise, are there any other initial startup procedures that should be followed before using the BTR5 for the first time?


----------



## ClieOS

KittySneeze said:


> Does the device need to be fully charged prior to using it for the first time? I know this was recommended for the Q5s, but wasn’t sure if it applied to all FiiO devices.
> 
> Likewise, are there any other initial startup procedures that should be followed before using the BTR5 for the first time?



As with almost all devices with rechargeable battery, it is a good idea to charge it up to 100% before your first use.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

ClieOS said:


> As with almost all devices with rechargeable battery, it is a good idea to charge it up to 100% before your first use.



This hasn't been true for ages, I'm 110% certain that the BTR5 uses a *lithium ion* battery and not some kind of alkine. 

In fact its charging lithium ion batteries to max reduces their life cycle more than if you keep it between 20-80%.


----------



## ClieOS (Dec 17, 2019)

C_Lindbergh said:


> This hasn't been true for ages, I'm 110% certain that the BTR5 uses a *lithium ion* battery and not some kind of alkine.
> 
> In fact its charging lithium ion batteries to max reduces their life cycle more than if you keep it between 20-80%.



Do you read my post that clearly stated ‘the first time’?

Most consumer will unlikely be able to know much battery is left when a rechargeable device is first received (including BTR5), and it is always a bad idea to fully drain the battery, especially Li-ion, to its lowest level and recharge it back, as that is a sure way to shorten battery life in the long run and even run the risk of damaging the battery in rare case of over-draining. My advise is so that a person, who might not know how to properly take care rechargeable device, will not run the risk of completely draining the battery when (s)he first receive his / her BTR5.

This is beside the fact that it is also a good time to check if the device will take a full charge or not.


----------



## KittySneeze

ClieOS said:


> As with almost all devices with rechargeable battery, it is a good idea to charge it up to 100% before your first use.


Thank you for the reply and suggestion. Delayed gratification was never my strong-suit!


----------



## psikey (Dec 17, 2019)

Can highly recommend the Fiio 2.5mm short balanced cable. Beautifully made and sounds as good as any other balanced cable I've had including 4.4mm Sony Kimber ( a £180 cable vs £30 cable).

Balanced sounds noticeable better than SE. I also have the Fiio short 3.5mm cable but this is better throughout.









With LDAC set to sound quality pref. 990kbps you really arn't missing anything with the BTR5 balanced.

My Sony A105 wired or Dragonfly Cobalt have different signatures but can't really say one is better than the other except DFC still best for MQA tracks (Tidal) and drives demanding headphones.

I've previously had Fiio X5III and M11 but I'm enjoying this more than wired out of those.

Significantly better than BTR3 and also has the edge on the EarStudio too.

Dead silent, no hiss with my SE846's via SE or balanced.

Not really tried it as a wired DAC as I have my DFC.

Volume balanced low gain with SE846's only 22/60 so this should drive most headphones.


----------



## twice2

psikey said:


> I've previously had Fiio X5III and M11 but I'm enjoying this more than wired out of those.
> 
> Significantly better than BTR3 and also has the edge on the EarStudio too.



How would you compare the EarStudio sound to the BTR5? Is the BTR5 warmer?
I am also interested how the Shanling UP4 performs but I can not get my hands on here in Europe.


----------



## moisespr123

twice2 said:


> How would you compare the EarStudio sound to the BTR5? Is the BTR5 warmer?
> I am also interested how the Shanling UP4 performs but I can not get my hands on here in Europe.



I would say the BTR5 sound is more sparkly and more open.

The EarStudio is more warm. 

This is using the Hidizs MS4 on balanced.


----------



## psikey

twice2 said:


> How would you compare the EarStudio sound to the BTR5? Is the BTR5 warmer?
> I am also interested how the Shanling UP4 performs but I can not get my hands on here in Europe.



I've not had the EarStudio for a long time. I would'nt describe the BTR5 warm at all. Its typical ESS DAC but even more pristine clear, defined, great across the range and decent width/sound stage. Zero noise floor with plenty of power.

Only time I've been fully happy with BT and build quality. The EarStudio is great sonically but cheap build & ergonomic issues for me.


----------



## psikey

psikey said:


> I've not had the EarStudio for a long time. I would'nt describe the BTR5 warm at all. Its typical ESS DAC but even more pristine clear, defined, great across the range and decent width/sound stage. Zero noise floor with plenty of power.
> 
> 
> Only time I've been fully happy with BT and build quality. The EarStudio is great sonically but cheap build & ergonomic issues for me.



Similar the DFC sig actually but thats sonically even better (but not massively so).


----------



## G_T_J

psikey said:


> Can highly recommend the Fiio 2.5mm short balanced cable. Beautifully made and sounds as good as any other balanced cable I've had including 4.4mm Sony Kimber ( a £180 cable vs £30 cable).
> 
> Balanced sounds noticeable better than SE. I also have the Fiio short 3.5mm cable but this is better throughout.
> 
> ...



Please do a comparison between BTR5 and DFC. I'm thoroughly impressed by the BTR5 but was also considering DFC at one point...


----------



## psikey (Dec 18, 2019)

G_T_J said:


> Please do a comparison between BTR5 and DFC. I'm thoroughly impressed by the BTR5 but was also considering DFC at one point...



You can keep chasing your own tail in this hobby. If your after wired 24/96 max with full Tidal MQA support and money no consideration then yes, the DFC is a bit better in every way but honestly, at £75+ for the BTR5 its a no brainer. Best LDAC BT IMO. Not tried it as a wired DAC to make a judgement but supports all formats and uses same DAC's  when wired so should be great. The DFC has the pro ESS DAC.

If I hadn't already got the DFC I likely wouldn't now buy in for just mobile use, but actually have that for use with my PC to feed my KEF LSX speakers MQA. I wouldn't have bought new at full rrp anyway (paid £150 for it).

I'm just sticking with the BTR5 balanced now when out & about using my A105 or S10+ as source, and straight out wired to my A105 when at home.

The DFC enables me to drive more demanding wired headphones out of A105 or S10+ as needed but 99% of my listening is now just the SE846's.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Dec 17, 2019)

So in general i'd say the best pairing for Btr5 is a warmer headphone, while for ES100 its a brighter one, isn't it?
Enjoyed the sound of ES100 until it gets broken.
Quality wasn't the greatest on ES100, but it was a great sounding little gem. 

Would like to hear such bt devices like Btr5 featuring an ak-dac.
One for my Era, one for the Oppo PM-3.


----------



## Q Mass

psikey said:


> ......
> ........ £70 for the BTR5 its a no brainer.....


No doubt, and thank you for all your reports on the BTR5, but I can't find it in the UK below £89.95 (which I'm sure it's worth BTW).
But If there's still someone selling it for £70 I want to know who!


----------



## psikey

Was a 15% discount code for AMP3. Making it £76.


----------



## DarKu (Dec 18, 2019)

Hey guys, I just reviewed it and compared it with BTR3 and M5.
Check it out *here.*


----------



## Q Mass (Dec 18, 2019)

psikey said:


> Was a 15% discount code for AMP3. Making it £76.


Don't suppose you know of a code which still works?

I attempted to buy a BTR5 as soon as it became available for pre-order at Amp3, but it ended before I could complete the order.
Luck of the draw, but that was frustrating for sure.

I'm still pleased for all those who did manage to get one though, ya lucky bums!

Sandu's @DarKu excellent review only adds fuel to the fire.
I was hoping that @Hawaiibadboy would offer some more in depth opinion on the BTR5, but if I'm honest with myself I don't really need any more encouragement to buy one, just better finances!

It'll be next year, but I think I've settled on the BTR5, and the Shuoer Tape.
Should be plenty of detail and punch from that pairing, I hope!


----------



## psikey

Was back in thread but may have been a black Friday weekend only code.


----------



## Q Mass

psikey said:


> Was back in thread but may have been a black Friday weekend only code.


Yeah, I tried both the codes from back there, but both were dead.
Thanks anyway.


----------



## psikey (Dec 18, 2019)

Q Mass said:


> Yeah, I tried both the codes from back there, but both were dead.
> Thanks anyway.


This 12% one still works  150AMP419 (<< think that's only for over £150 spend) normal 10% one then.


----------



## Qazi Shehryar

Hello i have Hiby w5 which also has es9218p dual dac which outputs 80mw+80mw @32ohm on 3.5mm ..... i was wondering if fiio btr5 also outputs same 80mw+80mw (double) or just 80mw (single) because in the btr5 official specs here https://www.fiio.com/btr5_parameters it says only 80mw ....


----------



## KittySneeze (Dec 19, 2019)

Qazi Shehryar said:


> Hello i have Hiby w5 which also has es9218p dual dac which outputs 80mw+80mw @32ohm on 3.5mm ..... i was wondering if fiio btr5 also outputs same 80mw+80mw (double) or just 80mw (single) because in the btr5 official specs here https://www.fiio.com/btr5_parameters it says only 80mw ....



The ratings for the W5 are referencing the power to each channel is 80mW, which is the same as the FiiO rating of 80mW. Some manufacturers state the output with the “+” symbol when referencing output.

I may be wrong on this, but this is my understanding.


----------



## ClieOS

Qazi Shehryar said:


> Hello i have Hiby w5 which also has es9218p dual dac which outputs 80mw+80mw @32ohm on 3.5mm ..... i was wondering if fiio btr5 also outputs same 80mw+80mw (double) or just 80mw (single) because in the btr5 official specs here https://www.fiio.com/btr5_parameters it says only 80mw ....



Like @KittySneeze said, they both refer to the same thing.


----------



## garretwp

Does the btr5 provide line out capabilities? I would like to use it as a wireless DAC to another amplifier when i am home.


----------



## ClieOS

garretwp said:


> Does the btr5 provide line out capabilities? I would like to use it as a wireless DAC to another amplifier when i am home.



No.


----------



## baloo87

How would i i connect this to a pc and use the low latency mode?

And does anyone have pictures if the inside of this device? I would like to mod it to fit onto my fidelio x1


----------



## Chris Kaoss

You'll get the "ll-mode" through usb connection instantly, because there isn't such a mode on usb.

If you're looking for bluetooth, the btr5 isn't a bluetooth transceiver.


----------



## archy121

baloo87 said:


> How would i i connect this to a pc and use the low latency mode?
> 
> And does anyone have pictures if the inside of this device? I would like to mod it to fit onto my fidelio x1



Install drivers for FIIO BTR5 and ASIO is made available. Than use media app of your choice that supports ASIO.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Dec 21, 2019)

Aaah.
Misread the question and fooled myself.
Damn it.
Sorry for that. 

Thank you @archy121 .


----------



## jmwant

Fiio BTR5 review from Z review


----------



## erak606

Anybody know what the filters do?

I'm seeing APOD 1, APOD 2, HYBR F, BRICK, FAST, SLOW, MINI, and MINI S.

The quick-start guide only talks about slow, fast, and minimum phase roll-off. Can't make out what the others do.


----------



## ClieOS

erak606 said:


> Anybody know what the filters do?
> 
> I'm seeing APOD 1, APOD 2, HYBR F, BRICK, FAST, SLOW, MINI, and MINI S.
> 
> The quick-start guide only talks about slow, fast, and minimum phase roll-off. Can't make out what the others do.




As with any digital filters in any DAC, they all do the same thing (unless it is a NOS DAC, which has no filter). When converting digital signal back to analog wave form, DAC needs to re(*over)sample the signal. In the process, unwanted noise is created as a byproduct, but at a higher frequency beyond human hearing range (>22KHz). The higher the resampling rate, the higher the noise will be in frequency. Since we don't want to hear noise, DAC designer puts in digital filter in DAC to filter out these noise. However, various type of filters each has its pros and cons, and writing about each of them in detail will be more of less worthy of a technical paper on its own - thus we are not going to discuss it here as these have been discussed in detail over the Internet (Google is your friend). The important issue is which to use - and actually no one has the "correct" answer as different people will tend to prefer one filter oer another (as said, each of them has its pros and cons). This is why DAC maker these days put in all the different filters option in their DAC and let the user / manufacturer pick the one they want to use. So the real answer is to listen to them all by yourself, then decide which one you like better.


----------



## soufiaj

Is there anybody that may compare FiiO BTR5 vs. Dragonfly Cobalt sound quality? I understand there’s a few differences in their form-factor but SQ-wise would be more interesting. (Apparently to ditch my DFC as i’m leaning more on BTR5 despite it’s battery-life)


----------



## Manwue

Ηι,

Does anyone know if there is an OEM case for btr5???

Many thanks.


----------



## DarKu

Manwue said:


> Ηι,
> 
> Does anyone know if there is an OEM case for btr5???
> 
> Many thanks.


DD HiFi has a leather one.
Here it is: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...WRFAWKPHzWNIFdVyROq5as43hY7UhGFPEGLpUvqPHeQVM
I have their case for M11 DAP and it feels fantastic


----------



## Manwue

Many thanks!!!


----------



## revand

soufiaj said:


> Is there anybody that may compare FiiO BTR5 vs. Dragonfly Cobalt sound quality? I understand there’s a few differences in their form-factor but SQ-wise would be more interesting. (Apparently to ditch my DFC as i’m leaning more on BTR5 despite it’s battery-life)



Not directly, but I compared the two and I say the Cobalt is exceptional and a bit better sounding then the BTR5, but considering that the BTR5 is a wireless music player I can say it is a sensational device!
You can find here my Fiio BTR5 review in Hungarian (Use Google Translate).
I compared the BTR5 with my home headphones system (Bluesound Node2 + Feliks Echo tube amp), also with Hiby W5 and Ibasso DC01 symmetrical audio adapter and should say considering the price/performance ratio the BTR5 is the best mobile music player of 2019!


----------



## baloo87

archy121 said:


> Install drivers for FIIO BTR5 and ASIO is made available. Than use media app of your choice that supports ASIO.



So any usb-bluetooth dongle can send low latency? But the sound has got to be in ASIO?
Do games support that sound format?


Is there also a transmitter that can send an analog signal via bluetooth in LL-mode to the BTR5? And how do i check if its actually LL?


----------



## noobandroid

baloo87 said:


> So any usb-bluetooth dongle can send low latency? But the sound has got to be in ASIO?
> Do games support that sound format?
> 
> 
> Is there also a transmitter that can send an analog signal via bluetooth in LL-mode to the BTR5? And how do i check if its actually LL?


instead of using BT on the pc, why not just use it as a uab dac amp? that would eliminate delay issues


----------



## KittySneeze

Manwue said:


> Ηι,
> 
> Does anyone know if there is an OEM case for btr5???
> 
> Many thanks.



Here is a link to the OEM case.
https://hifigo.com/products/leather-case-for-fiio-btr5-bluetooth-adapter-cover-black


----------



## soufiaj

revand said:


> Not directly, but I compared the two and I say the Cobalt is exceptional and a bit better sounding then the BTR5, but considering that the BTR5 is a wireless music player I can say it is a sensational device!
> You can find here my Fiio BTR5 review in Hungarian (Use Google Translate).
> I compared the BTR5 with my home headphones system (Bluesound Node2 + Feliks Echo tube amp), also with Hiby W5 and Ibasso DC01 symmetrical audio adapter and should say considering the price/performance ratio the BTR5 is the best mobile music player of 2019!


Thanks! For the brief reply. Yeah, anyway, I will only 100% mainly using them for IEM. DFC probably for the uses of more than IEM I guess. Maybe BTR5 is efficiently perfect for IEM. 

Now am just curious if the sounds are significantly better when in USB-dac mode (on iPhone) vs. Bluetooth (LDAC in Android). 
Anyway, now i’m waiting for the shipping and will decide if they’re worth switching from DFC, entirely. Excited for this more than Christmas this year


----------



## FinBenton (Dec 22, 2019)

baloo87 said:


> Is there also a transmitter that can send an analog signal via bluetooth in LL-mode to the BTR5? And how do i check if its actually LL?


Yes, check out Avantree Oasis plus. Has digital and analog inputs and you can switch codecs and see whats being used.

Also Sennheiser BT T100 should be able to do this.


----------



## archy121 (Dec 22, 2019)

My micro usb to usbc cable adapter finally arrived and I have managed to test out connecting the BTR5 via USB to the LGV30. I was curious to see if I could experience improvements over LGV30 SO audio using the BTR5’s balance out.

After some messing around with the UAPP settings and changing the Charge mode to Off on the BTR5 I got it working.
All 16/24bit lossless tracks played fine upto 96khz. Going above that was a hit and a miss depending on the tracks. For instance Michael Jackson’s Thriller DSD64 played mostly fine but Beat It track in particular struggled with glitches. Marvin Gayes 24/192 Lets get it it on also showed signs of lesser glitching. I tried increasing the buffer size and and playing with other UAPP USB Tweak settings without much luck.

Seems the issue is related to bandwidth when playing high sample tracks. Not sure if it can be resolved by @FiiO FW update or by UAPP author.

Or Is it possible that the cable I’m using is creating this issue ?
 I’m using a standard USBC to micro USB cable with a micro usb to USBC adapter attached to it.
I didn’t want to buy another expensive cable until I had tested it working. 

If the issue with playing very high bandwidth tracks can be resolved than i would be happy to use the BTR5 over LG DAC. Their is definitely an improvement in the audio using the BTR5 Balance out - bigger soundstage, increases clarity and greater sense of 3D like stereo.


----------



## C_Lindbergh

How long does it last when using 3,5 mm output with a pair of IEMs?


----------



## revand

soufiaj said:


> Thanks! For the brief reply. Yeah, anyway, I will only 100% mainly using them for IEM. DFC probably for the uses of more than IEM I guess. Maybe BTR5 is efficiently perfect for IEM.
> 
> Now am just curious if the sounds are significantly better when in USB-dac mode (on iPhone) vs. Bluetooth (LDAC in Android).
> Anyway, now i’m waiting for the shipping and will decide if they’re worth switching from DFC, entirely. Excited for this more than Christmas this year



Interesting, but the sound is just a bit better in USB mode vs. in Bluetooth mode, so no significant difference.


----------



## psikey

soufiaj said:


> Is there anybody that may compare FiiO BTR5 vs. Dragonfly Cobalt sound quality? I understand there’s a few differences in their form-factor but SQ-wise would be more interesting. (Apparently to ditch my DFC as i’m leaning more on BTR5 despite it’s battery-life)



I have both. 

Use my BTR5 while out and abount mobile but indoors use the DFC. On pure sound quality the DFC still has the edge but not massively so.


----------



## baloo87

noobandroid said:


> instead of using BT on the pc, why not just use it as a uab dac amp? that would eliminate delay issues



I already have a decent usb dac/amp for my cans, but i was wondering if i i could upgrade my fidelio x1 and use them wirelessly while gaming, (but only if the LL function works.)


----------



## ClieOS

archy121 said:


> My micro usb to usbc cable adapter finally arrived and I have managed to test out connecting the BTR5 via USB to the LGV30. I was curious to see if I could experience improvements over LGV30 SO audio using the BTR5’s balance out.



Have you changed the BTR5 setting from UAC1.0 to UAC2.0?


----------



## noobandroid

baloo87 said:


> I already have a decent usb dac/amp for my cans, but i was wondering if i i could upgrade my fidelio x1 and use them wirelessly while gaming, (but only if the LL function works.)


actually (for me) the LDAC has no significant delay whether streaming or gaming, everything on point or with insignificant delay, so delay maybe from the Tx?


----------



## archy121

ClieOS said:


> Have you changed the BTR5 setting from UAC1.0 to UAC2.0?



Yes I did. And also UAPP settings to match it and leave on auto.


----------



## nigel801

Anyone knows if moving from xdsd to BTR5 will be downgrade or improvement


----------



## garretwp

A couple of questions:

1. When charging the unit, does the battery icon that animates through the levels of the battery stay on throughout the charging process even when charged, or is it supposed to show a full charge icon of some sort? When plugging the unit it to charge, it only shows the battery level animating from empty to full.

2. For USB mode, I am having a hard time getting it to use USB mode when plugged in and charge mode off. It always wants to pair with the last device. The only way to get this to work is turn of the bluetooth of the devices it was paired to. Anyone else notice this issue?

- Garrett


----------



## EmareX

Hey guys, I have two questions if you can help me with, 

01. How long the battery will last with LDAC Balanced Low Gain and lets say about 75% of volume? 
02. Is there a way to replace the battery in future if needed?

Thank You.


----------



## Hanesu (Dec 24, 2019)

Just got the Btr5 and am wondering about some things concerning the app support:

1. The only way to get app support for the Btr5 is to download the Fiio Music App and connect the Btr5 through „Bluetooth devices“ , right? There is no separate app?

2. I realized a significant sound quality drop when using the EQ! Just switching it on without even changing any frequency causes somewhat reduced treble response and soundstage? Anybody else realized that? If this is really normal than am quite disappointed by the EQ!

3. When I watched the official Fiio tutorials the interface of the app was black! On my iphone it is white! Is there something like a dark mode?


----------



## Hanesu (Dec 31, 2019)

nigel801 said:


> Anyone knows if moving from xdsd to BTR5 will be downgrade or improvement



I was wondering the same question  and actually for this reason bought the Btr5! After spending some hours with the device it is still difficult to answer.....so I might end up in keeping both...haha.

1.Coming from the XDSD, the much smaller form factor of the Btr5 is really nice to have, while also having great built quality and not feeling as cheap as the ES100, for example.
2. Btr5 definitely has less background hiss than XDSD!
3. Btr5 has a better Bluetooth connection with  less quirks when connecting it to more than one device. After connecting it to different devices I need to repair my XDSD on a regular base...while Btr5 seems super stable and very uncomplicated for switching between devices.
4. Btr5 generally is the more modern device with more codecs etc.
5. Btr5 has playback buttons and a little screen- which makes it more convenient to use than XDSD.
6. Sound quality via BT is maybe on a similar level, though I must say XDSD is slightly more of my taste. It sounds a bit fuller, smoother and more musical while the Btr5 sounds a bit brighter and more tuned towards treble and instrument separation...both is nice and I guess it really depends on your personal preference.
5. Bass and stage enhancement is implemented so well on the XDSD while EQ on the Btr5 did not leave a very good impression on me (see my post above). Might change through improved software hopefully.


----------



## Lopsy1

Hanesu said:


> Just got the Btr5 and am wondering about some things concerning the app support:
> 
> 1. The only way to get app support for the Btr5 is to download the Fiio Music App and connect the Btr5 through „Bluetooth devices“ , right? There is no separate App?
> 
> ...


There is a separate app, here is the link


Hanesu said:


> I was wondering the same and actually for this reason bought the Btr5! After spending some hours with the device it is still difficult to answer this question.....I might up ending up in keeping both...haha.
> 
> 1.Coming from the XDSD, the much smaller form factor is so nice, while having great built quality and not feeling as cheap as the ES100, for example.
> 2. Btr5 has less background hiss than XDSD!
> ...


There is a separate app, here's a link : http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO_Music/app-fiio-control-1022.apk


----------



## Hanesu (Dec 24, 2019)

Lopsy1 said:


> There is a separate app, here is the link
> 
> There is a separate app, here's a link : http://fiio-file.fiio.net/FiiO_Music/app-fiio-control-1022.apk



Cool - but that does not work for iOS, right?


----------



## B_Rich

Hey guys, I just wanted to share a video I made quickly comparing the new BTR5 and the ES100. It's not an in depth review of each or anything, just sharing my thoughts on each.


----------



## M0USER

Manwue said:


> Ηι,
> 
> Does anyone know if there is an OEM case for btr5???
> 
> Many thanks.



Yes! I just got it.

US $19.99 | DD C-B5, Leather Case for FiiO BTR5 Bluetooth AMP, Bluetooth Adapter Cover, Black
https://a.aliexpress.com/KFpLbaxm

I missed the loop on my btr3 for hanging around my neck.


----------



## nigel801

Hanesu said:


> I was wondering the same question  and actually for this reason bought the Btr5! After spending some hours with the device it is still difficult to answer.....so I might end up in keeping both...haha.
> 
> 1.Coming from the XDSD, the much smaller form factor of the Btr5 is really nice to have, while also having great built quality and not feeling as cheap as the ES100, for example.
> 2. Btr5 definitely has less background hiss than XDSD!
> ...



Many thanks for your detailed comparison, the only reason I am interested in BTR5 is indeed the smaller form factor XDSD is still bulky to carry in jeans pocket.


----------



## Hanesu

nigel801 said:


> Many thanks for your detailed comparison, the only reason I am interested in BTR5 is indeed the smaller form factor XDSD is still bulky to carry in jeans pocket.



Yep, I know 100% what you mean. And if this is the most important factor for you, it might be worth considering the switch. Again, SQ wise it’s just little nuances depending on your preference.


----------



## FiiO

FiiO releases the new firmware FW1.0.6 for BTR5: https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/360002.html


----------



## ClieOS

FiiO said:


> FiiO releases the new firmware FW1.0.6 for BTR5: https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/360002.html



Excellent. Also please make the FiiO Control app an official standalone app / out of beta..


----------



## FiiO

Hanesu said:


> Just got the Btr5 and am wondering about some things concerning the app support:
> 
> 1. The only way to get app support for the Btr5 is to download the Fiio Music App and connect the Btr5 through „Bluetooth devices“ , right? There is no separate app?
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

No separate app for Apple mobile phone currently.
The volume will drop after turning on the EQ function in order to avoid the distortion.
You could turn on the nighttime theme in the settings of FiiO Music app for help.

Best regards


----------



## Lopsy1 (Dec 26, 2019)

This is my BTR5 case mod.


----------



## noobandroid

nigel801 said:


> Many thanks for your detailed comparison, the only reason I am interested in BTR5 is indeed the smaller form factor XDSD is still bulky to carry in jeans pocket.


smaller u can consider btr3, its adequately nice


----------



## Amber Rain

Sorry if this has been asked already, but does or have  asynchronous volume control when used with an iPhone? The BTR1K does and it is invaluable for volume control purposes.

I now have  a Sony DAP so want the option of using the LDAC codec  

Thanks


----------



## psikey

Cant I update via the Fiio Music App?


----------



## psikey

noobandroid said:


> smaller u can consider btr3, its adequately nice



Audio quality not a patch on BTR5 nore is strenght and stability of the bluetooth.


----------



## FiiO

psikey said:


> Cant I update via the Fiio Music App?


Dear friend,

Do you mean the firmware? You would need a Windows computer for help.

Best regards


----------



## psikey

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Do you mean the firmware? You would need a Windows computer for help.
> 
> Best regards


I thought with the BTR3 it would update via the music app.


----------



## ccrys

Hi,

I'm planing to upgrade my Xonar U7 1st gen with Topping NX4 or Fiio BTR5. 

I will use it with Meze Classics 99 headphones. Will be a true improvement in sound quality? 

How about ocasionally gaming and movie. Those two will suitable?


----------



## psikey (Dec 31, 2019)

Biggest design mistake on the BTR5 was not including a lanyard loop on the BTR5 itself. I have to keep mine in the plastic clip holder to use the Lanyard around neck. Added weight & bulk.

Hope someone bring as slim case with a lanyard loop.

Going top try one of these if sticker part not too wide

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303322275026


----------



## Hanesu

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> No separate app for Apple mobile phone currently.
> The volume will drop after turning on the EQ function in order to avoid the distortion.
> ...




Hi Fiio!

Thanks a lot for your kind reply!

1. Ok, thanks for the information concerning the App on iOs!

2. My personal impression is, using the EQ does not only reduce volume but also reduce the overall clearness of the sound! Because even if I higher the volume after switching on the EQ immediately, sound is more dull than without EQ. I need to raise highs to get a similar sound as without EQ. I know that with lower volume there is a lot psychoacoustics going on, but I am pretty sure about this one on iOS. There is a clear difference in sound! Can you maybe check with your software engineers?

3. Ok, thanks! Found the night time theme!


----------



## al2813

I think this was already answered somewhere in the thread but I understand I cannot connect them to my iPhone in USB mode and use them to establish LDAC to my headphones? Is there a portable DAC that delivers this functionality?


----------



## noobandroid

al2813 said:


> I think this was already answered somewhere in the thread but I understand I cannot connect them to my iPhone in USB mode and use them to establish LDAC to my headphones? Is there a portable DAC that delivers this functionality?


if you are on USB, there is no LDAC, LDAC is a bluetooth codec for wireless, but apple only has SBC and AAC, so.. yeah, there's that


----------



## Mouseman

al2813 said:


> I think this was already answered somewhere in the thread but I understand I cannot connect them to my iPhone in USB mode and use them to establish LDAC to my headphones? Is there a portable DAC that delivers this functionality?


You are asking about a Bluetooth transmitter, I'm not sure any Bluetooth dongles do that. They are usually receive only. I don't think I've seen any transmitters that are small form factors.


----------



## cleg

*FiiO BTR5 — detailed text review by Porta.Fi*​
English: https://porta.fi/fiio-btr5-review-more-than-a-mere-bluetooth-receiver/
Russian: https://porta.fi/ru/obzor-fiio-btr5-bolshe-chem-bluetooth-resiver/


----------



## Mouseman

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Do you mean the firmware? You would need a Windows computer for help.
> 
> Best regards


Are there any plans to offer an iOs app or a way to upgrade firmware from a Mac? Or from the app?


----------



## cleg

Shanling UP4 vs FiiO BTR5


----------



## sinquito

ccrys said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm planing to upgrade my Xonar U7 1st gen with Topping NX4 or Fiio BTR5.
> 
> ...


To be honest I think that those are very different kind of audio devices, the Topping is wired only and the Fiio has bluetooth. I haven't heard the Fiio, but I do own the Q5s and the Topping has a more powerful amplifier. I bought an AM5 amp module, but that was 127 USD on top of the 349 for the Q5s itself. The Topping was 149 USD or less, can't remember. If you need bluetooth get the Fiio, if not, the Topping.


----------



## FinBenton

Anybody know what kinda pinout/wiring does the 2.5mm balanced port use on this unit? Im making my own cable for this but there seems to be a bunch of different styles to wire it..


----------



## ClieOS

FinBenton said:


> Anybody know what kinda pinout/wiring does the 2.5mm balanced port use on this unit? Im making my own cable for this but there seems to be a bunch of different styles to wire it..



Not really, there is only one standard for balanced 2.5mm wiring that everyone follows, including all FiiO's DAP / amps, which basically is the same one established by A&K quite a few years ago.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/some-common-headphones-plug-wiring-for-balanced-audio.875730/


----------



## Devodonaldson

nigel801 said:


> Anyone knows if moving from xdsd to BTR5 will be downgrade or improvement


I have both. Xdsd wins for overall musicality, period. BTR5 portability and slightly brighter treble is different, and the eq ability allows you to play a little more. BTR5 is my on the go pocket movie m music DAC. Xdsd forpre detailed listening, IMO.


----------



## FiiO

FiiO releases BTR5 Protective Leather Case SK-BTR5: https://fiio.com/newsinfo/361874.html


----------



## psikey (Dec 31, 2019)

psikey said:


> Biggest design mistake on the BTR5 was not including a lanyard loop on the BTR5 itself. I have to keep mine in the plastic clip holder to use the Lanyard around neck. Added weight & bulk.
> 
> Hope someone bring as slim case with a lanyard loop.
> 
> ...



Update to my lanyard idea.

I got one for ~£5 and fitted. Can now leave off the plastic clip case and looks same styling with the BTR5 (hoop is metal, not plastic and hoop rotates).
Total weight with the loop now 63g which is still fine around neck. Doesn't interfere with BT strength and can even use it as a little stand if you like.


----------



## digititus

psikey said:


> Update to my lanyard idea.
> 
> I got one for ~£5 and fitted. Can now leave off the plastic clip case and looks same styling with the BTR5 (hoop is metal, not plastic and hoop rotates).
> Total weight with the loop now 63g which is still fine around neck. Doesn't interfere with BT strength and can even use it as a little stand if you like.


A Blue Peter badge is on it's way to you!


----------



## al2813 (Dec 31, 2019)

Got one this morning with the main use case being the one that probably was not the intended one. Have been looking for a more portable usb DACs to replace my Topping NX4 on the go. was a bit worried to get one of the dongles, and unlike them was able to test it in the store before buying. In usb DAC mode with my iPhone it works and shines very nicely. It currently hangs from two cables - small camera kit and the delivered usb to USB-C cable.  Will be looking for a single cable to replace them. BT is obviously a great bonus and need to see how I exploit it. In BT mode my IEM does not sound that different compared to my AirPod Pros but will need to compare a bit more.

happy to hear more use cases from people who play the music from iPhones. In any case for 119 it’s an awesome piece of kit!


----------



## B_Rich

psikey said:


> Update to my lanyard idea.
> 
> I got one for ~£5 and fitted. Can now leave off the plastic clip case and looks same styling with the BTR5 (hoop is metal, not plastic and hoop rotates).
> Total weight with the loop now 63g which is still fine around neck. Doesn't interfere with BT strength and can even use it as a little stand if you like.



This has given me some ideas. I'm gonna try and get a clip that sticks on the back instead of having the plastic case. Going to explore some options.


----------



## psikey (Dec 31, 2019)

B_Rich said:


> This has given me some ideas. I'm gonna try and get a clip that sticks on the back instead of having the plastic case. Going to explore some options.



I originally tried to stick on a Sony clip I had but not safe/secure. This is rock solid so if you get some of the 3M pads and a longer clip it should be OK.

Post your solution if you find one.


----------



## B_Rich

psikey said:


> I originally tried to stick on a Sony clip I had but not safe/secure. This is rock solid so if you get some of the 3M pads and a longer clip it should be OK.
> 
> Post your solution if you find one.



I will.


----------



## soufiaj

Happy New Year, Everybody! 

I’m waiting for my unit but I have tested the BTR5 pretty frequently in store, & I have planned to be using it with my iPhone. 
Same idea with @al2813 ...

Then for the cases’ case, if it’s gonna hooked with direct short USB-C to Lightning cable, the BTR leather case could be the sticker on the back of the iPhone. Some may use the cool Velcro tape and It may attached with the iPhone cases pretty snuggly. OR Maybe FiiO or other brand make an iPhone case that can be (ok that’s too much )

Anyway I find the USB DAC function is fantastic (despite some slow/fast playback sometimes happening) I guess FiiO solved it in the latest FW update.

For BT uses, I may like to put them in the pocket just like a small DAP I used to use years ago (iPod nano).


----------



## EmareX

Can someone please share your experience on BTR5 battery life? I am seriously concerned about that before I place my order. How 7h is working out for you? Is it actually 7h or less? I hate the idea of charging it everyday .. but if it can survive a full day, thats not too bad I guess.


----------



## ClieOS

EmareX said:


> Can someone please share your experience on BTR5 battery life? I am seriously concerned about that before I place my order. How 7h is working out for you? Is it actually 7h or less? I hate the idea of charging it everyday .. but if it can survive a full day, thats not too bad I guess.



It depends on the BT codec used, headphone as well as volume, but you should get around 7~8 hours on most headphones with LDAC.


----------



## jsmiller58

EmareX said:


> Can someone please share your experience on BTR5 battery life? I am seriously concerned about that before I place my order. How 7h is working out for you? Is it actually 7h or less? I hate the idea of charging it everyday .. but if it can survive a full day, thats not too bad I guess.



I use my BTR5 exclusively as Bluetooth receiver.  The codec is LDAC.  IEMs always connected to 2.5mm balanced.  I cannot comment on how long it will go on one charge because I tend to recharge my BTR5 after about 4 hours of use (a convenience thing - I am at my desk at work, so why not?).  The indicator tells me I have around 50% battery life left, so I have no reason to believe I wouldn’t get 7-8 hours per charge.


----------



## Marco Angel

Have anyone knows if fiio will add the EQ support for ldac?. I'm still looking forward for it


----------



## morndewey

Greetings. I have es100mk2. Works well, sounds great. However exterior build quality is quite poor. Looking at BTr5 as improvement to this. BTr5 appears to have a larger battery than es100. I’m getting probably 7 hrs Ldac from es100, maybe less. Also, can I use this via usb? From reading, seems yes. My car has only usb jack, no 3.5. Also, does the es100 work with usb connection (output audio signal to receiver?) as it does with 2.5/3.5? Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

Marco Angel said:


> Have anyone knows if fiio will add the EQ support for ldac?. I'm still looking forward for it



They said they are working on it, but no indication on when it will be available.


----------



## ClieOS

morndewey said:


> Greetings. I have es100mk2. Works well, sounds great. However exterior build quality is quite poor. Looking at BTr5 as improvement to this. BTr5 appears to have a larger battery than es100. I’m getting probably 7 hrs Ldac from es100, maybe less. Also, can I use this via usb? From reading, seems yes. My car has only usb jack, no 3.5. Also, does the es100 work with usb connection (output audio signal to receiver?) as it does with 2.5/3.5? Thanks



Outputing digital audio signal to USB is not possible for BTR5 and ES100 (*no BT adapter that I know of is capable of that). Also there is an extremely high chance that the USB port on your car probably can't take USB audio input as well. Most of them are only design to read USB thumb drive.


----------



## Marco Angel

ClieOS said:


> They said they are working on it, but no indication on when it will be available.


Enough for me
@FiiO please update as soon as you have any news on this please


----------



## JM22681

Does anyone know if the app allows you to shut off the hands free calling profile and just run A2DP while in car mode?


----------



## ClieOS

JM22681 said:


> Does anyone know if the app allows you to shut off the hands free calling profile and just run A2DP while in car mode?



No it doesn't.


----------



## JM22681

ClieOS said:


> No it doesn't.



@ClieOS - thanks again!  Did I read correctly that you can reduce the mic volume, and perhaps mute it?  If so I’m good.

Also, do you know if the battery having a charge is required, or if it has an isolated power supply via USB-C and will function irrespective of charge?

FYI for USA - Back in stock on Amazon, 109 price.  ~2-3 week shipping


----------



## ClieOS

JM22681 said:


> @ClieOS - thanks again!  Did I read correctly that you can reduce the mic volume, and perhaps mute it?  If so I’m good.
> 
> Also, do you know if the battery having a charge is required, or if it has an isolated power supply via USB-C and will function irrespective of charge?
> 
> FYI for USA - Back in stock on Amazon, 109 price.  ~2-3 week shipping



I don't know anyway that can reduce or mute the mic volume on BTR5. The only volume you can change is the headphone volume as well as the notification volume.

Not fully understand of your 2nd question - Battery charging is select-able in setting. If you turn off charging and connect it as USB DAC, then it will use the battery power. For car mode, BTR5 will auto-power on/off depends on the power from your car USB port (which usually only powers up when you turn on your car).


----------



## JM22681

Ah ok thanks, I thought I read that there was mic volume control in the FiiO app.  So there is no way to control the mic volume if using TRRS?

Trying to understand if the Li-ion battery dies, is the unit still operable with a wired power source (USB-C).


----------



## elNan

Apparently there's a "Realm of the Sky" edition in the works (confirmed by Fiio today in their FB page). Does anyone know what are the differences between this "RotS" edition and the regular one? Just the color?

https://www.facebook.com/PortaFi/po...ith-the-standard-edition-of/3035777183117560/


----------



## B_Rich

elNan said:


> Apparently there's a "Realm of the Sky" edition in the works (confirmed by Fiio today in their FB page). Does anyone know what are the differences between this "RotS" edition and the regular one? Just the color?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/PortaFi/po...ith-the-standard-edition-of/3035777183117560/



Oh wow, I want that.


----------



## NoshiSenpai

Got my BTR5 first thing this week. I ordered it off AliExpress from FiiO's store, they're doing "free" DHL shipping for anyone who's interested it's included in the cost I'm pretty sure. Just note they charge taxes on AliExpress now, which is new to me, but some of you may already know. I ended up with a coupon I had getting charged $140ish. I needed a replacement bluetooth dac/amp for the Fiio BTR1K asap because the 3.5mm jack killed itself. I was happy because DHL delivered it within two days of me ordering it.

Impressions for the last three days of full use is that it's pretty amazing. Using it mostly for my IEMs, I have the BLON BL-03 and KZ ZS6. It has a great stock sound signature, I'm not using any EQ for now, for me it's noticeably better than the BTR1K (given that was a budget option). The only thing at the moment I have to compare it to is the Topping MX3, I haven't really put the two side by side or anything, most likely will this weekend as well as use some overears. Gotta say I am loving the app, FiiO has put a lot of effort to make the settings at least come close to what I saw on the EarStudio app. I had the BTR3 briefly and it seems like they've made this model more customizable from what I remember being on the BTR3's customization. Also haven't used this as a USB-C dac/amp either. Battery life seems pretty decent from what I've experienced. I took it to work for the first time today and haven't had to charge it yet, I didn't charge it the day before either.

So far only negative thing I can say is it's a glass sandwich and fingerprint magnet... but hey so is my phone.


----------



## jsmiller58

B_Rich said:


> Oh wow, I want that.


Looks neat, but apparently purely cosmetic changes vs the BTR5 from what I see in the post.  Rather save my money and buy something with new capabilities.


----------



## ClieOS

jsmiller58 said:


> Looks neat, but apparently purely cosmetic changes vs the BTR5 from what I see in the post.  Rather save my money and buy something with new capabilities.



As far as BT adapter goes, I don't think there is any that is more capable than BTR5 at the moment.


----------



## FiiO

Mouseman said:


> Are there any plans to offer an iOs app or a way to upgrade firmware from a Mac? Or from the app?


Dear user,

Currently not. It may take quite a long time to update the firmware via mobile phone.

Best regards


----------



## zolom

It would appreciate having an in-depth comparison between the BTR5 and the ES100, especially on audio and BT connectivity. 
Currently  I own the ES100.
Options: purchase the BTR5 or wait for the Qudelix 5K (expected,  end of Q1?).


----------



## Hanesu (Jan 4, 2020)

zolom said:


> It would appreciate having an in-depth comparison between the BTR5 and the ES100, especially on audio and BT connectivity.
> Currently  I own the ES100.
> Options: purchase the BTR5 or wait for the Qudelix 5K (expected,  end of Q1?).



I have both. Honestly, the differences in sound are not huge....they have only a slightly different tonal balance. To my ears, BTR5 sounds a little fuller in the mids and a bit more natural with voices....while ES100 seems to be very slightly recessed in the mids but for that reason also sounds a little "splashier" and airier/wider. Depends on what you like and maybe what kind of music you listen to. They both sound really good imo for what they are (little BT dongles) and I am not sure if Qudelix will sound "better" or just be another variation.

BTR5 obviously has the way better built quality and haptics (that`s why I bought it), but it is also bigger and heavier than ES100 and surprisingly buttons can be quite annoying (buttons are too thin and you have to click for each step to increase volume etc).

Fiio EQ/App also has definitely not convinced me so far; using EQ reduces sound quality slightly to my ears (treble looses a bit of extension) and also sometimes the app is buggy, freezes or does not let me access my BT device). Not to forget that music stops playing when you activate the app. Hope all of this will be improved soon. ES100 app and EQ are brilliant and literally work flawlessly.

Connectivity: I did not have any problems at all with both.

Well, and last but not least, if you need a lot of output power for bigger and demanding headphones - take the Fiio. If not and you mainly use IEMs - output on both is absolutely fine and more than enough!


----------



## zolom

Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Marco Angel

Hanesu said:


> I have both. Honestly, the differences in sound are not huge....they have only a slightly different tonal balance. To my ears, BTR5 sounds a little fuller in the mids and a bit more natural with voices....while ES100 seems to be very slightly recessed in the mids but for that reason also sounds a little "splashier" and airier/wider. Depends on what you like and maybe what kind of music you listen to. They both sound really good imo for what they are (little BT dongles) and I am not sure if Qudelix will sound "better" or just be another variation.
> 
> BTR5 obviously has the way better built quality and haptics (that`s why I bought it), but it is also bigger and heavier than ES100 and surprisingly buttons can be quite annoying (buttons are too thin and you have to click for each step to increase volume etc).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the brief and usefull comparison, the BTR5 is briliant, and in paper is totaly better than its competition, for that i was pulling the trigger since its launch but fails in a crucial department for me, the EQ, I just set the ES100 up in the app and every adjustment will be stored in the unit, being free to listen to my SE846 as i want, in every pc/mac (USB DAC), android tab or phone (LDAC), exactly as I set. right now, even if my current es100 fails, i would bought it again ultil another good contender is released.
Best hopes for the @FiiO development team, and somaday in the close future, their BTR surpases the quality of the ES100 app and EQ.


----------



## Miki966 (Jan 6, 2020)

Ciao a tutti gli amici del forum, ho acquistato FiiO btr5 dopo aver posseduto ear studio es100 per molto tempo. Arrivo immediato alla conclusione senza indugiare, per qualità costruttiva il btr5 e anni luce avanti, audio entrambi i migliori, il FioO ha più potenza, ma ciò che studio 100 supera il BTR 5 e la sua applicazione completa, un equalizzatore professionale, con la possibilità di cambiare i parametri per ogni singola cuffia e quindi tenerli in memoria. Mi chiedo cosa manca a FiiO con la sua decennale esperienza nella creazione di un'app simile? mi scusi per il mio inglese ☺


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Jan 6, 2020)

Miki966 said:


> Ciao a tutti gli amici del forum, ho acquistato FiiO btr5 dopo aver posseduto ear studio es100 per molto tempo. Arrivo immediato alla conclusione senza indugiare, per qualità costruttiva il btr5 e anni luce avanti, audio entrambi i migliori, il FioO ha più potenza, ma ciò che studio 100 supera il BTR 5 e la sua applicazione completa, un equalizzatore professionale, con la possibilità di cambiare i parametri per ogni singola cuffia e quindi tenerli in memoria. Mi chiedo cosa manca a FiiO con la sua decennale esperienza nella creazione di un'app simile? mi scusi per il mio inglese ☺



Fiio is on its way to roll out a firmware with nearly similar features like Radsone.
Maybe not the same, but with very similar settings, i hope. 

Edit.
Welcome to head-fi, my the force, and your wallet, be with you. ^^


----------



## Miki966

Grazie per la tua risposta, sarei molto felice se FiiO riuscisse a creare un'app simile ☺


----------



## Miki966

[QUOTE = "Chris Kaoss, post: 15400731, membro: 518305"] Fiio è in procinto di lanciare un firmware con caratteristiche quasi simili come Radsone.
Forse non è lo stesso, ma con impostazioni molto simili, spero. cchiolino:

Modificare.
Benvenuto in head-fi, mia forza e nel tuo portafoglio, sii con te. ^^ [/ QUOTE]

Grazie per la tua risposta, sarei molto felice se FiiO riuscisse a creare un'app simile ☺


----------



## chalkwe

Hi I'm a newbie here
Will Btr5 can use with Thieaudio Phantom?


----------



## B_Rich

Just curious, what Lowpass filter is everyone using? I can't say I hear a big difference between them.... haha


----------



## psikey (Jan 7, 2020)

Miki966 said:


> [QUOTE = "Chris Kaoss, post: 15400731, membro: 518305"] Fiio è in procinto di lanciare un firmware con caratteristiche quasi simili come Radsone.
> Forse non è lo stesso, ma con impostazioni molto simili, spero. cchiolino:
> 
> Modificare.
> ...



Welcome, but its an English language forum really and can't go translating what you post.


----------



## psikey

B_Rich said:


> Just curious, what Lowpass filter is everyone using? I can't say I hear a big difference between them.... haha


Default everything. Happy with sound without changing anything and never use EQ.


----------



## Miki966

psikey said:


> Welcome, buts its an English language forum really and can't go translating what you post.



ok sorry, the next comment I will use the translator


----------



## psikey (Jan 6, 2020)

I'm currently swapping listening with my SE846's between the BTR5 balanced via 990kbps LDAC BT or wired direct to my Sony A105 or Dragonfly Cobalt and the BTR5 is the most clean with dead silent background.

The DFC still seems to sound the best with Tidal and MQA's fed from an iPhone or PC but its really minor differences.

At this rate I will be just using the BTR5 via LDAC to my S10+ phone or A105.

I've gone as high at M11 with Fiio and R5 with Hiby and I sware the BTR5 sounds nicer throughout

The Sony's have their own sound sig so Sony A105 still worth keeping and my DCF still best for use with my PC to speakers (simple use and MQA support).

If I'm listening to Tidal MQA at home will still use the DFC wired.

You wouldn't have believed you could ever get this quality via BT only a year or 2 ago (previously had BTR3 and ES100).

If you want best "bang for buck" for SQ and convenience, and already using an Android phone with LDAC support the BTR5 is untouchable IMO.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Looking forward to the arrival in Germany or Europe.
Need a good dac/amp along with my Surface Pro.

And for work with bluetooth.


----------



## psikey

Chris Kaoss said:


> Looking forward to the arrival in Germany or Europe.
> Need a good dac/amp along with my Surface Pro.
> 
> And for work with bluetooth.



Got mine from AMP3 in UK for £76 ( black Friday discount code). They should ship to EU.


----------



## Hanesu

Chris Kaoss said:


> Looking forward to the arrival in Germany or Europe.
> Need a good dac/amp along with my Surface Pro.
> 
> And for work with bluetooth.



You can can actually already buy it in Germany! Got mine at the German Fiio Online store already 3 weeks ago!


----------



## K1030 (Jan 6, 2020)

Been seeing a lot of questions about low pass filters that only your ears can answer; but here's an old chart that could help.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Jan 7, 2020)

Thanks @psikey @Hanesu
Will give it a shot.
Hope there isn't such a problem with battery like my former ES100 had.

I've ordered one instantly while out of stock atm.


----------



## dedero

Chris Kaoss said:


> Thanks @psikey @Hanesu
> Will give it a shot.
> Hope there isn't such a problem with battery like my former ES100 had.
> 
> I've ordered one instantly while out of stock atm.



No stock in europe fiio/hifi-passion stores and amp3 since some weeks now.. still waiting..


----------



## NoshiSenpai

B_Rich said:


> Just curious, what Lowpass filter is everyone using? I can't say I hear a big difference between them.... haha


I've played with all of them after updating to FiiO's latest fw. I mainly use BLON BL-03 with them, but I have used the Monoprice Retro and CALs on them. I use to be a car audio guy so I was curious if the low-pass filters would change things like it would in subs.... but I personally can't tell you the difference on any of them. I picture this may just be a way of future proofing the device but I'm not entirely sure, I'm sure there's some headphones you maybe able to audibly tell the difference. Stock sound is good enough I don't really care. lol


----------



## Ynot1 (Jan 7, 2020)

I noticed that BTR5 and other recently released devices offer many and various different filters. So my question is if we know a particular headphone or earphone can be modeled via a theoretical impulse response (freq graphs) and the impulse response can be captured in the filter parameters or coefficients, then we can obtain a flat or balanced frequency response for each and every headphones or earphones as long as we develop a relevant filter, will Fiio add filters to support this? I think this will help simplify the need to equalize when we switch headphones.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

In that case, i'd recommend Uapp with tone booster.
There you can save a lot of headphone presets made by yourself to fulfill your needs. 

But you're right, something like detection of impedance to enable presets would be perfect.


----------



## ClieOS

Ynot1 said:


> I noticed that BTR5 and other recently released devices offer many and various different filters. So my question is if we know a particular headphone or earphone can be modeled via a theoretical impulse response (freq graphs) and the impulse response can be captured in the filter parameters or coefficients, then we can obtain a flat or balanced frequency response for each and every headphones or earphones as long as we develop a relevant filter, will Fiio add filters to support this? I think this will help simplify the need to equalize when we switch headphones.



These filters are built-in hardware features by the DAC chip maker, not something put in by FiiO. While adding new filter is not completely out of question for BTR5 due to the use of XMOS controller, this is usually a very complicated work that I don't think FiiO is currently capable of nor wanting to invest time into. It usually will take a master DAC designer/engineer to implement a new filter.

Besides that, these filters generally measure quite flat (with difference in how fast roll-off kicks in) regardless of what headphones you are going to use. Whether one person prefer one filter over another has a lot to do with personal taste as well. Trying to force one particular filter on one particular model of headphone won't likely to work.


----------



## soufiaj

I just got this last 2 days. For me they sounds incredible and almost surpassing my DFC Cobalt when using them in USB DAC mode + balanced output. Also, they sounds very mature and big!. Now am thinking of switching to Android from iOS - just for the LDAC (not sure if it worth the sacrifice)

[QUESTION]
Does anyone knows *why* the USB DAC is not working when using direct cable (for my case, it’s USB C to Lightning)?

It will only works when there’s a USB A involved (using Apple CCK with stock USB C cable).


----------



## Tom1206

soufiaj said:


> [QUESTION]
> Does anyone knows *why* the USB DAC is not working when using direct cable (for my case, it’s USB C to Lightning)?
> 
> It will only works when there’s a USB A involved (using Apple CCK with stock USB C cable).



This is probably because the USC C to Lightning cable is not MFI certified, contrary to the Apple CCK dongle.
Maybe try to find a MFI USB C cable, I don't know if those exists.


----------



## soufiaj

Tom1206 said:


> This is probably because the USC C to Lightning cable is not MFI certified, contrary to the Apple CCK dongle.
> Maybe try to find a MFI USB C cable, I don't know if those exists.


Thanks, for the reply & suggestion. It’s the cable from the original iPhone box (with fast charging adapter) so I doubt that it is due to MFi certificate thingy. I suspect (hope not) it’s an energy related issue or something... 
@FiiO are you guys maybe able to advise? Thanks


----------



## Hanesu (Jan 8, 2020)

soufiaj said:


> Thanks, for the reply & suggestion. It’s the cable from the original iPhone box (with fast charging adapter) so I doubt that it is due to MFi certificate thingy. I suspect (hope not) it’s an energy related issue or something...
> @FiiO are you guys maybe able to advise? Thanks



As far as I know the Lightning2USB-C cable does not support data transfer to other than PC or Mac. https://support.apple.com/en-me/HT205807

Think Fiio themselves wrote somewhere on Headfi that in fact you need Apple CCK to use BTR5 as a USB-DAC for iPhone!


----------



## davehutch

@FiiO I wonder if you just clarify please as I'm considering buying the BTR5 as an upgrade to my ES100 due to the extra power requirements of my IEMs...If I'm using an iPhone for my music and a Mac as my computer, is there a full iOS app and a method of updating firmware?
If not, are there plans to add these at some point?
Thanks


----------



## grandros

Hello everybody!! I recently purchased the BTR5 and now I am looking for headphones. I dont have any experiece in Hi-Fi audio systems apart from reading forums and watching reviews on youtube. So its time for me to start listening!!! As a beginer my demands are limited. As far as I have read, the BTR5 is an excellent DAC to start with. I am planning to feed  it with Spotify (LDAC connection from mobile) and FLACS from laptop (USB connection).  I want to  listen to music (mainly rock and jazz) and occasionally  to watch  movies "silently".  I am almost settled to buy the Sennheiser HD660S but I have some questions:
1. Is the BTR5 capable to drive the 660s?  Has anybody test this setup? 
2. I am thinking to connect them in 2.5mm balanced output. Is there any meaning on this or the sound is the same with 3.5mm outpout?


----------



## Devodonaldson

grandros said:


> Hello everybody!! I recently purchased the BTR5 and now I am looking for headphones. I dont have any experiece in Hi-Fi audio systems apart from reading forums and watching reviews on youtube. So its time for me to start listening!!! As a beginer my demands are limited. As far as I have read, the BTR5 is an excellent DAC to start with. I am planning to feed  it with Spotify (LDAC connection from mobile) and FLACS from laptop (USB connection).  I want to  listen to music (mainly rock and jazz) and occasionally  to watch  movies "silently".  I am almost settled to buy the Sennheiser HD660S but I have some questions:
> 1. Is the BTR5 capable to drive the 660s?  Has anybody test this setup?
> 2. I am thinking to connect them in 2.5mm balanced output. Is there any meaning on this or the sound is the same with 3.5mm outpout?


660 requires too much power, IMO. Find a less power hungry headphone, and you'll be good. 660 let's le know you are looking for open back, yet you said watch moves silently. So maybe you want a closed back portable? Plenty good headphones under 100ohm resistance. Much better match for btr5


----------



## grandros

Thank you for your reply. By  "silently" I mean compered to the home cinema while kids are sleeping. I know about the sound leak of open-backs but is not my concern. What you said about power requirements troubles me more and thats why I asked your opinion and if someone has already combined btr5 with 660s. On the other hand, I would prefer to do fewer and better purchases...


----------



## psikey

grandros said:


> Hello everybody!! I recently purchased the BTR5 and now I am looking for headphones. I dont have any experiece in Hi-Fi audio systems apart from reading forums and watching reviews on youtube. So its time for me to start listening!!! As a beginer my demands are limited. As far as I have read, the BTR5 is an excellent DAC to start with. I am planning to feed  it with Spotify (LDAC connection from mobile) and FLACS from laptop (USB connection).  I want to  listen to music (mainly rock and jazz) and occasionally  to watch  movies "silently".  I am almost settled to buy the Sennheiser HD660S but I have some questions:
> 1. Is the BTR5 capable to drive the 660s?  Has anybody test this setup?
> 2. I am thinking to connect them in 2.5mm balanced output. Is there any meaning on this or the sound is the same with 3.5mm outpout?



I had some HD660S and they were fine, but if you also want to use for movies then have a look at the BT/wired Audeze Mobious. They are marketted as gaming headphones but sound superb for both music and movies and just as good over LDAC bluetooth. Also do 3D 7.1 sound.


----------



## fsi22

grandros said:


> Thank you for your reply. By  "silently" I mean compered to the home cinema while kids are sleeping. I know about the sound leak of open-backs but is not my concern. What you said about power requirements troubles me more and thats why I asked your opinion and if someone has already combined btr5 with 660s. On the other hand, I would prefer to do fewer and better purchases...


 
I use an HD650 with a Btr3. works fine, depends how loud you prefer your volume. An HD660s on a Btr5 will be louder


----------



## Ynot1 (Jan 8, 2020)

Why not stay with Fiio EH3? I think you can still use it wired. And no one has yet compared the EH3 to BTR5 balanced. Unless Fiio says otherwise, EH3 is unbalanced.


----------



## grandros

Sorry but I was not clear for what I want and I dont. I do not want wireless ANC, studio or gaming headphones.  I already own the BTR5 and I want to combine it with a decent pair of headphones with detachable cables so I can use ballanced connections. For example, I rejected Beyerdynamic DT880 or DT990 because of non-detachable cable. I am asking the opinion of someone who has combined the exact equipment (BTR5 + HD660S) and has listened its potentials. fsi22 for example has HD650 with BTR3, but HD650 are 300 Ohms vs HD660S at 150 Ohms. Also BTR3 outputs 25mW at 3.5mm whereas BTR5 80mW through 3.5mm and 240mW at 2.5mm BAL.


----------



## psikey (Jan 8, 2020)

BTR5 has plenty power balanced for HD660S IMO.

Nice headphones but nothing fantastic.

Mobius are not ANC and can be used with wire plus microphone is detacheable. Anyway give the HD660S a try if thats your preference.


----------



## JM22681

Just got my BTR5!  Does anyone know if you turn off the “charge” in the app, stay plugged in to USB-C, battery drains naturally, will it still work without charge but with USB-C?  Mine is staying in the car so I’m just trying to eliminate the battery’s eventual demise from the equation (and extend its potential life).

Also there is a feature in the app called DAC Clock Divider level of 0.25, 0.5, and 1.0.  Does it make sense to bump that to 1.0 when it is plugged in irrespective of source (Bluetooth or USB).

I also notice the volume drop when EQ is applied in unbalanced mode.  Hopefully that can be addressed in firmware.

Overall I love the app and hope they continue enhancing it!!


----------



## Devodonaldson

JM22681 said:


> Just got my BTR5!  Does anyone know if you turn off the “charge” in the app, stay plugged in to USB-C, battery drains naturally, will it still work without charge but with USB-C?  Mine is staying in the car so I’m just trying to eliminate the battery’s eventual demise from the equation (and extend its potential life).
> 
> Also there is a feature in the app called DAC Clock Divider level of 0.25, 0.5, and 1.0.  Does it make sense to bump that to 1.0 when it is plugged in irrespective of source (Bluetooth or USB).
> 
> ...


Volume drop when we applied is normal. It's there to prevent clipping as you raise other frequencies.


----------



## Hanesu (Jan 8, 2020)

JM22681 said:


> I also notice the volume drop when EQ is applied in unbalanced mode.  Hopefully that can be addressed in firmware.
> 
> Overall I love the app and hope they continue enhancing it!!



I`d be very interested to hear whether you (and other BTR5 owners) also hear a slight sound quality loss (not only a volume drop) when switching on the EQ. To my ears switching on the EQ to "flat" clearly leads to less treble than without EQ (at least on iOS), even when I quickly adjust the volume to the same level as before.

Me, personally, I must say I don`t think the (iOS) app is very good yet, but I agree I hope they continue enhancing it! Besides fixing the EQ issue above,I am wishing for
- other bug fixes (for example, sometimes the app cannot detect my device anymore and I need to restart it a thousand times before it works again)
- being able to safe several EQ settings!
- not stopping the music anymore when switching on the app
- generally smoother interface (switching the EQ and other functions need loading time, for example!)
- no more language mistakes and mixed up languages within the interface
- firmware updates through the App (or at least being able to use a Mac)

etc.

Well, generally I am wishing for a similar app experience as the ES100 - which works so well!

Fiio really got the hardware right this time  , just the software.......ungh.... 

And oh, Fiio, can you pleeeeease change the sound when switching the device on? It sounds like an 80s computer jingle out of 5 dollar speakers - it is totally distorted! Does no fit to a "flagship" AUDIO device at all! Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS

Hanesu said:


> - not stopping the music anymore when switching on the app



I posted the 'FiiO Control' app awhile ago in this thread. Use that instead of the 'FiiO Music' app for controlling BTR5 and the music won't stop when the app is used.


----------



## Hanesu

ClieOS said:


> I posted the 'FiiO Control' app awhile ago in this thread. Use that instead of the 'FiiO Music' app for controlling BTR5 and the music won't stop when the app is used.



Yep, but unfortunately that does not exist for iOS, only for Android....


----------



## JM22681

ClieOS said:


> I posted the 'FiiO Control' app awhile ago in this thread. Use that instead of the 'FiiO Music' app for controlling BTR5 and the music won't stop when the app is used.



Android only?


----------



## jsmiller58

ClieOS said:


> I posted the 'FiiO Control' app awhile ago in this thread. Use that instead of the 'FiiO Music' app for controlling BTR5 and the music won't stop when the app is used.


Where do you find the Android version?  I can't find it on Play Store...


----------



## ClieOS

JM22681 said:


> Android only?





jsmiller58 said:


> Where do you find the Android version?  I can't find it on Play Store...



Link is in the thread, in one of my older post. It is not on Play Store, but a beta released by FiiO.


----------



## grandros

Installed in my Samsung S7, connected BTR5 1.0.6 but does not work.


----------



## Extrasensory

This might already be discussed before, so I am so sorry to ask this again.

Does using BTR5 in windows 10 usb dac mode have any delay/output lag in audio? Also, I saw somewhere that it has 2 usb dac modes. What are the differences between those 2 modes?

I used to have BTR3 and it didn't show any sign of delay in usb dac mode, at least for non-FPS gaming.


----------



## ClieOS (Jan 9, 2020)

Extrasensory said:


> This might already be discussed before, so I am so sorry to ask this again.
> 
> Does using BTR5 in windows 10 usb dac mode have any delay/output lag in audio? Also, I saw somewhere that it has 2 usb dac modes. What are the differences between those 2 modes?
> 
> I used to have BTR3 and it didn't show any sign of delay in usb dac mode, at least for non-FPS gaming.



USB DAC generally has no lag. If it does, it is almost certainly broken.

USB Audio Class 1 supports on up to 24bit 96kHz and doesn't need software driver. With Windows, you want USB audio Class 2 for higher bitrate support, though you also need to install the FiiO driver.


----------



## posedown

Where or when can i buy the BTR5 in Germany?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Here it is.

https://fiio-shop.de/dac-mit-kopfhoererverstaerker/927/fiio-btr5


----------



## posedown

Yes, i know but not available. I´m looking for weeks now.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Just ordered a few days ago.
Time will tell how long the delivery needs. 
I can wait for that to come.


----------



## Miki966

[QUOTE = "posedown, post: 15406461, membro: 466473"] Dove o quando posso acquistare il BTR5 in Germania? [/ QUOTE]

https://www.amazon.it/FiiO-BTR5-Amp...o+btr5&qid=1578599877&sprefix=FiiO+btr&sr=8-1

I believe they also ship to Germany


----------



## sinquito

One question to the people who own this little bluetooth fella. I have the Q5s and as far as I know, the equalizer settings don't work outside the Fiio Music app, since I only use and plan to use Spotify, render useless any equalizer setting for the Q5s. What about the BTR5? Would the settings will also work only within the Fiio Music App?


----------



## Devodonaldson

sinquito said:


> One question to the people who own this little bluetooth fella. I have the Q5s and as far as I know, the equalizer settings don't work outside the Fiio Music app, since I only use and plan to use Spotify, render useless any equalizer setting for the Q5s. What about the BTR5? Would the settings will also work only within the Fiio Music App?


I use eq on my Nintendo switch, Tidal, and whatever else I connect it to. Just doesn't work with LDAC, but APTX-HD and lower, EQ will be applied.


----------



## Lopsy1

sinquito said:


> One question to the people who own this little bluetooth fella. I have the Q5s and as far as I know, the equalizer settings don't work outside the Fiio Music app, since I only use and plan to use Spotify, render useless any equalizer setting for the Q5s. What about the BTR5? Would the settings will also work only within the Fiio Music App?


If you set EQ, it will be stored in the Btr5.


----------



## FiiO

soufiaj said:


> Thanks, for the reply & suggestion. It’s the cable from the original iPhone box (with fast charging adapter) so I doubt that it is due to MFi certificate thingy. I suspect (hope not) it’s an energy related issue or something...
> @FiiO are you guys maybe able to advise? Thanks





FiiO said:


> Yes:
> 
> 
> You would need the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK)  for help as well.
> ...


And did you turn off the charge option in the BTR5?

Best regards


----------



## mrnikt

archy121 said:


> Ztella will be offering MQA at around $70. It was a ridiculous $55 on startup. Maybe the MQA costs are put on the streaming service provider or subscribers  instead.


Hi 
Where did you found ZTELLA with 70$. Looking at their web site the price is 99$ .


----------



## sinquito

Devodonaldson said:


> I use eq on my Nintendo switch, Tidal, and whatever else I connect it to. Just doesn't work with LDAC, but APTX-HD and lower, EQ will be applied.


Maybe this is also the case with the Q5s and since I only use it wiht LDAC, that's why I can't hear a difference with EQ. I will try latter using Aptx with EQ.

Thanks.


----------



## zeko39

posedown said:


> Yes, i know but not available. I´m looking for weeks now.


I contacted them, they replied today stating it‘s expected to be back in stock within 1-2 weeks


----------



## AndoniTG

Hello!
So, I've been reading the whole post, i bought a sabaj da3 not so long ago by amazon (used 60$ usd), and after reading this, I'm thinking to switch to the btr5. 
Do you guys think is worth it?


----------



## Ab10 (Jan 12, 2020)

Please send some units to Fiio India....Don't want to buy from Ali X.


----------



## iburdeinick

grandros said:


> Hello everybody!! I recently purchased the BTR5 and now I am looking for headphones. I dont have any experiece in Hi-Fi audio systems apart from reading forums and watching reviews on youtube. So its time for me to start listening!!! As a beginer my demands are limited. As far as I have read, the BTR5 is an excellent DAC to start with. I am planning to feed  it with Spotify (LDAC connection from mobile) and FLACS from laptop (USB connection).  I want to  listen to music (mainly rock and jazz) and occasionally  to watch  movies "silently".  I am almost settled to buy the Sennheiser HD660S but I have some questions:
> 1. Is the BTR5 capable to drive the 660s?  Has anybody test this setup?
> 2. I am thinking to connect them in 2.5mm balanced output. Is there any meaning on this or the sound is the same with 3.5mm outpout?



Hello Grandos,

I have used the BTR5 with the 6XX/650 both 3.5 and 2.5 on High Gain. they work Better on the 2.5 on H Gain, as there is more power output. I also use it with KZ either 3.5 or 2.5 and works awesome and at much lower volume.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...BDBiyT&spm=a2g0o.store_home.slider_70171766.3

Hope this helps


----------



## grandros

iburdeinick said:


> Hello Grandos,
> 
> I have used the BTR5 with the 6XX/650 both 3.5 and 2.5 on High Gain. they work Better on the 2.5 on H Gain, as there is more power output. I also use it with KZ either 3.5 or 2.5 and works awesome and at much lower volume.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your reply but I finally bought Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon. I was afraid of Sennheiser's impedance for the BTR5 and I think that HD series are for more advanced ears yet. On the other hand Nighthawks are more exotic and rare anymore whereas HD600 series are one of the oldest model in market.


----------



## Devodonaldson

grandros said:


> Thank you very much for your reply but I finally bought Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon. I was afraid of Sennheiser's impedance for the BTR5 and I think that HD series are for more advanced ears yet. On the other hand Nighthawks are more exotic and rare anymore whereas HD600 series are one of the oldest model in market.


Good combination. Regardless of what skeptics say, Nighthawk one of my favorite headphones. I don't like boosted treble, so I purchased hybrid pads before they were out of stock. For me the microsuede pads are a more than decent alternative, but don't have quite nearly the same punch as the hybrid pads. Enjoy.


----------



## LordZero

Can someone try the Btr5 with the iBasso it01s? I am afraid that would make them sound very thin


----------



## eeans

@FiiO When connected via USB-C to a computer, and using it as a USB-C DAC, I'm having an issue where it eventually cuts out as the battery is discharging quicker than it can charge. Is this normal? I'd have thought when connected via USB-C it would be powered by USB-C (whilst also charging the battery)?


----------



## zeko39

eeans said:


> @FiiO When connected via USB-C to a computer, and using it as a USB-C DAC, I'm having an issue where it eventually cuts out as the battery is discharging quicker than it can charge. Is this normal? I'd have thought when connected via USB-C it would be powered by USB-C (whilst also charging the battery)?


Is your charge setting set to ‘ON’?


----------



## eeans

Yes it's set to 'ON'. Though does it not need to be on in order to charge?


----------



## ccrys

How is the line output for ampliffer? The oldest models like btr3 suffers for lack of dynamic and power.


----------



## psikey (Jan 14, 2020)

The more I listen to my SE846 balanced with BTR5 fed from my S10+ over LDAC BT I keep thinking a sub £80 BT device should'nt be possible to sound this good!

I've listed my Sony A105 for sale and hardly even using my Dragonfly Cobalt at the moment as I'm enjoying the sound quality/sig so much out of the BTR5, plus its convenience.

Not even tried it as a wired DAC yet, just for BT.


----------



## ClieOS

eeans said:


> Yes it's set to 'ON'. Though does it not need to be on in order to charge?



Of course it needs to set to "ON" for charging, otherwise the setting will be useless.

Also, might want to be sure your PC type-C port can output more than 500mA. Some older USB port that are not up to spec might only do 250mA.



ccrys said:


> How is the line output for ampliffer? The oldest models like btr3 suffers for lack of dynamic and power.



There is no lineout on BTR5 (nor is BTR3).


----------



## LordZero

Anyone tried the it01s with this? How it sounds? I am afraid it sound to thin...
What would be a nice iem to this? in the 200/250 price range.


----------



## Jayden16

LordZero said:


> Anyone tried the it01s with this? How it sounds? I am afraid it sound to thin...
> What would be a nice iem to this? in the 200/250 price range.


Why exactly are you worried they'll sound thin out of the BTR5?


----------



## LordZero

Jayden16 said:


> Why exactly are you worried they'll sound thin out of the BTR5?




I am afraid that the it01s would lack bass.


----------



## psikey

LordZero said:


> I am afraid that the it01s would lack bass.



Well my SE846's have decent bass thump anyway and certainly not dimminished with BTR5 compared to my DFC or Sony A105. If anything there is slightly more kick in the bass.
 In a good way.


----------



## cholnhaym (Jan 14, 2020)

Hey everyone. Hope you are all well. I have been reading this thread and have watched a few videos about the BTR5 and I am wondering what the cheapest device is that I could get that would take advantage of the apxhd or ldac capabilities when I am already totally submerged in the Apple/iOS pool. All the searches I have done are suggesting android phones but I don’t need another phone etc. Hope that makes sense and thanks for your time and advice.


----------



## tmb821

cholnhaym said:


> Hey everyone. Hope you are all well. I have been reading this thread and have watched a few videos about the BTR5 and I am wondering what the cheapest device is that I could get that would take advantage of the apxhd or ldac capabilities when I am already totally submerged in the Apple/iOS pool. All the searches I have done are suggesting android phones but I don’t need another phone etc. Hope that makes sense and thanks for your time and advice.



I have a samsung tablet that I used to try out the ldac world. Now this was with a btr3, but I wasn’t impressed. Not only could I not tell a difference in quality between ldac, aptx, and aac, you can’t use the eq in ldac. I’m deep into the iOS world as well.


----------



## cholnhaym

tmb821 said:


> I have a samsung tablet that I used to try out the ldac world. Now this was with a btr3, but I wasn’t impressed. Not only could I not tell a difference in quality between ldac, aptx, and aac, you can’t use the eq in ldac. I’m deep into the iOS world as well.


Haha! Thanks for the reply. Maybe I’ll just give it whirl with my phone then. Have a great evening.


----------



## cenix (Jan 14, 2020)

Any idea if they are planning on selling it on Amazon Germany or UK? Thinking about giving this a try, but don't know a proper store to buy from in the EU.

*EDIT:* Turns out, it was already sold on Amazon UK.

Does anyone know how well it drives the Tin AUDIO P1 in balanced output?


----------



## HipHopScribe

cholnhaym said:


> Hey everyone. Hope you are all well. I have been reading this thread and have watched a few videos about the BTR5 and I am wondering what the cheapest device is that I could get that would take advantage of the apxhd or ldac capabilities when I am already totally submerged in the Apple/iOS pool. All the searches I have done are suggesting android phones but I don’t need another phone etc. Hope that makes sense and thanks for your time and advice.



Neither LDAC or aptx-HD offer any real world advantages over AAC output from an iOS device for music listening quality in my opinion, so I personally wouldn't bother with a different device


----------



## grandros

cholnhaym said:


> Hey everyone. Hope you are all well. I have been reading this thread and have watched a few videos about the BTR5 and I am wondering what the cheapest device is that I could get that would take advantage of the apxhd or ldac capabilities when I am already totally submerged in the Apple/iOS pool. All the searches I have done are suggesting android phones but I don’t need another phone etc. Hope that makes sense and thanks for your time and advice.


As far as I know, it is more important to specify what is the quality of your source files. If for example you are sourcing from spotify, even SBC(the default link speed) is enough. But if you are using higher quality formats souch ALAC, then it starts higher rates (aptxhd, ldac) to have meaning. Also it depends on your headphones and your ears training to find the diferences. I cant yet!!!Finaly, iphone and ipod and ipad can connect up to aac, wheareas macbook and imac support higher bitrate connections. BTR5 supports almost all current audio formats except the fairly new aptx adaptive.


----------



## DezHifi

psikey said:


> Well my SE846's have decent bass thump anyway and certainly not dimminished with BTR5 compared to my DFC or Sony A105. If anything there is slightly more kick in the bass.
> In a good way.


I agree. Compared to my DFR, it has a slightly warm signature with a little more bass but retain all the details from DFR. I sold my DFR for the BTR5 and I found myself using LDAC most of the time. The difference between wired and bluetooth is so small that it is hardly noticeable. I'm very satisfied with this purchase.


----------



## cholnhaym

HipHopScribe said:


> Neither LDAC or aptx-HD offer any real world advantages over AAC output from an iOS device for music listening quality in my opinion, so I personally wouldn't bother with a different device


Thanks for the advice.


----------



## cholnhaym

grandros said:


> As far as I know, it is more important to specify what is the quality of your source files. If for example you are sourcing from spotify, even SBC(the default link speed) is enough. But if you are using higher quality formats souch ALAC, then it starts higher rates (aptxhd, ldac) to have meaning. Also it depends on your headphones and your ears training to find the diferences. I cant yet!!!Finaly, iphone and ipod and ipad can connect up to aac, wheareas macbook and imac support higher bitrate connections. BTR5 supports almost all current audio formats except the fairly new aptx adaptive.


Thanks for the explanation, I may just give it a whirl with the old iPhone then see how I get on.


----------



## Devodonaldson

cholnhaym said:


> Thanks for the advice.


Not necessarily true. This is coming from a person who has an iPhone 7 used solely as a digital transport for audio, because of the bitperfect output. I also use Android phones. With my Audioquest Nighthawk, Campfire Audio Solaris, or Meze 99 Classic, I definitely hear a difference between AAC on iOS, and LDAC, APTX-HD, and in some instances treble presentation with APTX vs AAC. It's the higher frequencies that are the most affected by the different codecs. The treble extension is less in AAC than say LDAC or APTX-HD. AAC doesn't sound bad at all, but I certainly notice the greater Dynamics in presentation on an Android with LDAC. For the record, it's easy to buy a "budget" Android phone, with the ability to expand storage via Micro SD on eBay. For instance, a Samsung j3, which does APTX and LDAC, no APTX-HD, can be purchased used for $60-$70 and a 400gb micro SD card for less than $60.


----------



## Miki966

a good day to the friends of the forum, I wanted a tip on the charger to use that will not ruin the battery of the FiiO btr5, thanks.


----------



## psikey (Jan 15, 2020)

cholnhaym said:


> Thanks for the advice.



Test with your own ears. AAC out of an iPhone doing standard AAC BT sounds dead/flat/bland/lifeless compared to LDAC at 600-990kbps. It very much depends on the LDAC adapter/headphones too. Both my BTR5 with SE846's or my Audeze Mobius headphones sound best over LDAC (aptx-hd close).

As for files, don't agree. Spotify Extreme Ogg files can sound just as good as Tidal FLAC. Take the standard vs Hi-Def tests online too (with decent kit, in my case DFC/SE486's). You will be surprised how little difference you will notice (if any).

Even after listening to the same 10s section 10 times when seriously concentrating on what your hearing you marginally tell the difference, it doesn't actually mean that non-HD tracks aren't just as enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## cholnhaym

psikey said:


> Test with your own ears. AAC out of an iPhone doing standard AAC BT sounds dead/flat/bland/lifeless compared to LDAC at 600-990kbps. It very much depends on the LDAC adapter/headphones too. Both my BTR5 with SE846's or my Audeze Mobius headphones sound best over LDAC (aptx-hd close).
> 
> As for files, don't agree. Spotify Extreme Ogg files can sound just as good as Tidal FLAC. Take the standard vs Hi-Def tests online too (with decent kit, in my case DFC/SE486's). You will be surprised how little difference you will notice (if any).
> 
> Even after listening to the same 10s section 10 times when seriously concentrating on what your hearing you marginally tell the difference, it doesn't actually mean that non-HD tracks aren't just as enjoyable to listen to.


Thank you so much for the advice. Time to open the wallet and test some stuff I reckon. Have a great day.


----------



## psikey

cholnhaym said:


> Thank you so much for the advice. Time to open the wallet and test some stuff I reckon. Have a great day.


Amazon is your friend!


----------



## cholnhaym

psikey said:


> Amazon is your friend!


Definitely. Haha!


----------



## majo123

Ordered yesterday should be here by Monday...looking forward to it.


----------



## alexwise

Is degradation in volume as well as sound quality significant when applying EQ? Planning to use my DT770s with the device


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Mine is on the way, too.
Should arrive tomorrow, i hope so.


----------



## 435279

majo123 said:


> Ordered yesterday should be here by Monday...looking forward to it.



You as well,  me too  , will be with me today.


----------



## posedown (Jan 16, 2020)

Chris Kaoss said:


> Mine is on the way, too.
> Should arrive tomorrow, i hope so.



So it was worth it to order, even though it wasn't available. I didn´t know that. The FiiO Site still says: not available.
In the meantime I have chosen the Hiby R3. It can also receive LDAC streams from my Smartphone.
But I mainly use it as a normal player with remote control via hiby link.

Well, FiiO that would have been your money. Not available for so many weeks ....
It is the year 2020!


----------



## abm0

ClieOS said:


> Single-ended headphone + singled-ended-to-balanced adapter + balanced output = NEVER


Might be true for most of them, including FiiO, but it's not "NEVER", as iFi's "S-balanced" design exists which does support shorting out the negative terminals and connecting single-ended headphones. IIRC.


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 7, 2020)

abm0 said:


> Might be true for most of them, including FiiO, but it's not "NEVER", as iFi's "S-balanced" design exists which does support shorting out the negative terminals and connecting single-ended headphones. IIRC.



Technically S-balanced is really not a balanced circuit in the sense of a BTL circuit that we typically associate with balanced audio used for headphone or loudspeaker. A true balanced circuit has an non-inverted (normal) amp stage as well as a invented amp stage (thus they kind of 'balance' each other out), where an S-balanced used a buffer stage to sink the ground channel and doesn't have a inverted signal. The idea is that the buffer stage will give similar sinking effect as an invented signal, but technically there is no inverted signal and thus the invented (=ground) left and right channel of a balanced headphone can be shorted together as neither channels have any active signal of its own. The idea is of an actively sinking ground channel on its own is not a completely new idea as Meier Audio does something similar in concept with their active balanced ground circuit (though not by a sinking ground buffer but by an inverted active ground sum).

I think for simplicity reason in discussion, balanced output = non-inverted amp stage + inverted amp stage, which is not what S-balanced is


----------



## majo123

SteveOliver said:


> You as well,  me too  , will be with me today.



Good stuff ...eager for you to let us know what you think of it


----------



## Chris Kaoss

posedown said:


> So it was worth it to order, even though it wasn't available. I didn´t know that. The FiiO Site still says: not available.
> In the meantime I have chosen the Hiby R3. It can also receive LDAC streams from my Smartphone.
> But I mainly use it as a normal player with remote control via hiby link.
> 
> ...


Ordered and paid on Jan, 7th at FiiO Germany website, aka. NT Global Distribution.
I've received an e-mail from Deutsche Post about the shipping.
I'm happy, and my PM-3 also.


----------



## 435279

majo123 said:


> Good stuff ...eager for you to let us know what you think of it



It arrived with 80% charge. The first thing I plugged into it is my FH7, obvious pairing I thought. I won't go into too much detail but I do get breakups when listening from my V30 with LDAC, Aptx HD though seems fine.

My ZX300->BTR5 using LDAC is also perfect when using best quality mode, so I know it can work fine without breaking up.

Looking forward to trying various combinations of gear now with the BTR5, some of which make logical sense some not so much. I'm also looking forward to trying it with my current favourite full size headphone the Aeon Flow closed back.

I used to own the EarStudio ES100 which I sold and was missing having a device like it for those travelling light kind of situations.


----------



## majo123

SteveOliver said:


> It arrived with 80% charge. The first thing I plugged into it is my FH7, obvious pairing I thought. I won't go into too much detail but I do get breakups when listening from my V30 with LDAC, Aptx HD though seems fine.
> 
> My ZX300->BTR5 using LDAC is also perfect when using best quality mode, so I know it can work fine without breaking up.
> 
> ...



Sounds good, be interesting to try it wired too ...il be mostly using mine at work with my galaxy s10 either bluetooth or wired as my main reason for purchase is to use my Amazon hd at work and also not having to carry a dap on the go.... looking forward to experimenting various combos as well though and I can see it getting a lot of use.


----------



## 435279

majo123 said:


> Sounds good, be interesting to try it wired too ...il be mostly using mine at work with my galaxy s10 either bluetooth or wired as my main reason for purchase is to use my Amazon hd at work and also not having to carry a dap on the go.... looking forward to experimenting various combos as well though and I can see it getting a lot of use.



Amazon HD on V30 -> Aptx HD -> BTR5 -> Fiio FH7 sounds good, and seems to work with no drops-outs in the short time I've been testing it so I think you should be OK with your requirement there. I'm looking forward to my lunch time walks with just my phone, BTR5 and IEM it should be a very portable hi-quality option.


----------



## majo123

SteveOliver said:


> Amazon HD on V30 -> Aptx HD -> BTR5 -> Fiio FH7 sounds good, and seems to work with no drops-outs in the short time I've been testing it so I think you should be OK with your requirement there. I'm looking forward to my lunch time walks with just my phone, BTR5 and IEM it should be a very portable hi-quality option.



More or less the same usage then, good stuff ....how you finding the audio quality?


----------



## 435279

majo123 said:


> More or less the same usage then, good stuff ....how you finding the audio quality?



It sounds good to me, good for a Bluetooth device, I doubt my ears could tell the difference between this over Bluetooth and say the Hiby R3 for example.

I've rebooted my phone and the BTR5 and the audio glitches I was getting when using LDAC are gone now too.


----------



## majo123

SteveOliver said:


> It sounds good to me, good for a Bluetooth device, I doubt my ears could tell the difference between this over Bluetooth and say the Hiby R3 for example.
> 
> I've rebooted my phone and the BTR5 and the audio glitches I was getting when using LDAC are gone now too.


Excellent, sounds very good so far ...bought this to replace my mo that I accidentally washed so if its pushing r3 level than that's more than good enough...good to hear its all running nice and smooth for you too.
 il chime in a bit on Monday or Tues after I receive mine , cheers Steve good to catch up with you too.


----------



## 435279

majo123 said:


> good to catch up with you too



Likewise Majo. Looking forward to your impressions too when you get yours.


----------



## 435279

Picture of random chocolate bar.


----------



## pholcus1975

Good evening, I'm interested in Btr5 for on the go use, since Btr3 is in my car and works perfectly, a really good product!

Just a question, when used in SE, will both DAC be used, ore only one?


----------



## pandemicSK

pholcus1975 said:


> Good evening, I'm interested in Btr5 for on the go use, since Btr3 is in my car and works perfectly, a really good product!
> 
> Just a question, when used in SE, will both DAC be used, ore only one?



Only one of two DAC are used for SE, regardless it's noticeably louder than the BTR3.


----------



## pholcus1975 (Jan 16, 2020)

Edited. Understood!


----------



## MadMike

SteveOliver said:


> You as well,  me too  , will be with me today.


Mine is waiting for me at home- replacing an ES100 that crapped out on me. It was constantly losing the connection when used as a BT receiver in a car application- mainly related with the USB power cord interface. Finally it just died- just after 1 year, though it had connections problems for a few months. Good sound but cheap build. Hoping BTR5 remedies the ES100 issues.


----------



## 435279

MadMike said:


> Mine is waiting for me at home- replacing an ES100 that crapped out on me. It was constantly losing the connection when used as a BT receiver in a car application- mainly related with the USB power cord interface. Finally it just died- just after 1 year, though it had connections problems for a few months. Good sound but cheap build. Hoping BTR5 remedies the ES100 issues.



Time will tell, the BTR5 certainly seems to be a better overall built unit.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

SteveOliver said:


> Picture of random chocolate bar.


Have a chocolate bar in order to put it behind my R28 with the Quads also.


----------



## alexwise (Jan 16, 2020)

Could someone please test the below?

Is degradation in volume as well as sound quality significant when applying EQ? Planning to use my DT770s with the device


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jan 16, 2020)

SteveOliver said:


> It arrived with 80% charge. The first thing I plugged into it is my FH7, obvious pairing I thought. I won't go into too much detail but I do get breakups when listening from my V30 with LDAC, Aptx HD though seems fine.
> 
> My ZX300->BTR5 using LDAC is also perfect when using best quality mode, so I know it can work fine without breaking up.
> 
> ...



I also use my BTR5 with my v30.  If I keep them both on the same side of my body I can use LDAC (600 and 900) without dropouts.  If my body is between them I will have issues - more if I force 900 than if I force 600, though.  Can't remember if the ES100 was as bad - will have to take it out of mothballs to test out.

I do have a weird problem where the BTR5 will power itself off when it has been playing for about 40 minutes.  I can power it back up without an issue.  Will update the FW and maybe that will go away.


----------



## jsmiller58

Chris Kaoss said:


> Have a chocolate bar in order to put it behind my R28 with the Quads also.



OK. I'll take one of those!


----------



## McShackle

Hi all. Newbie here. Just got my btr5 yesterday.
Just want to ask, for using the btr5 in Bluetooth mode with an android phone, how do you guys set up the volume on both devices?
For e.g. 
phone volume 100% X btr5 volume 25%
Phone volume 50% X btr5 volume 50%
I'm wondering how to set it up for best sound quality.

Also, have anyone tried to change the android LDAC audio output quality to 990kbps in developer option? For me, the music breaks up at this bit rate and I can only set to 660 for proper usage.


----------



## Devodonaldson

McShackle said:


> Hi all. Newbie here. Just got my btr5 yesterday.
> Just want to ask, for using the btr5 in Bluetooth mode with an android phone, how do you guys set up the volume on both devices?
> For e.g.
> phone volume 100% X btr5 volume 25%
> ...


Source volume should always be maxed out


----------



## salla45

I have been using the BTR5 now for a couple of months, and it's dawning on me just how much it's changed my portable usage. 

Previous flagships for my musing listening are now playing 2nd fiddle: 

X7ii is now currently quite redundant.

My M11has been relegated to desktop DAC use with the ageing MOJO now being used in another room fed off a Chromecast optical out to run some good active monitors.

Conversely I've revived my M6 which had been languishing in my gadget drawer, and am LDACing that with the BTR5, for easy portable use, and for streaming using my cellphones with BTR5, either Note 8 or V30. 

Basically, because of its astonishingly good sound quality, this little widget has redefined my portable and wireless expectations.


----------



## ccrys

Can be mixed both ground signals from balanced to have more power lineout ? Like single ended from ifi.


----------



## majo123

SteveOliver said:


> Likewise Majo. Looking forward to your impressions too when you get yours.



Hey does it come with usbc to usbc cable ? Was just wondering about wired to my galaxy......cheers.


----------



## 435279

ccrys said:


> Can be mixed both ground signals from balanced to have more power lineout ? Like single ended from ifi.



You could do this but only with the appropriate loads in place, certainly not recommenced if you don't know what you are doing.


----------



## 435279 (Jan 17, 2020)

majo123 said:


> Hey does it come with usbc to usbc cable ? Was just wondering about wired to my galaxy......cheers.



I don't know to be honest I didn't open the accessory pack as I already have an USB A to C cable I used for charging. I will check tonight if nobody else as replied by then.

I also have a C to C cable here already that came with my 1TB Samsung SSD drive so I will try wired to my V30 soon

Edit: I just tried V30 wired to BTR5. UAPP is outputting streamed Tidal no problem, BTR5 is showing the correct 96Khz bit rate too. This is a great little device.


----------



## psikey

psikey said:


> The more I listen to my SE846 balanced with BTR5 fed from my S10+ over LDAC BT I keep thinking a sub £80 BT device should'nt be possible to sound this good!
> 
> I've listed my Sony A105 for sale and hardly even using my Dragonfly Cobalt at the moment as I'm enjoying the sound quality/sig so much out of the BTR5, plus its convenience.
> 
> Not even tried it as a wired DAC yet, just for BT.



Now tried as wired DAC to PC & S10+/UAPP and you know what, the DFC is also now going to be sold. The BTR5 is an "all-in-one" wonder. I might now have finally found the one device that meets all my needs when used with my balanced SE846's, then just coupled to any decent daily use phone that does LDAC when out & about. Currently use an S10+ 512GB + 512GB mSD so plenty of storage. 

Native DSD playback with UAPP  is up their with the Mojo for me.


----------



## psikey

jsmiller58 said:


> I also use my BTR5 with my v30.  If I keep them both on the same side of my body I can use LDAC (600 and 900) without dropouts.  If my body is between them I will have issues - more if I force 900 than if I force 600, though.  Can't remember if the ES100 was as bad - will have to take it out of mothballs to test out.
> 
> I do have a weird problem where the BTR5 will power itself off when it has been playing for about 40 minutes.  I can power it back up without an issue.  Will update the FW and maybe that will go away.



No problem with my S10+ with BTR5 at 600 but S10 has issue with 900 unless screen is off! Otherwise OK at 900 to.  Never dropped once anywhere around me at 600.


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 7, 2020)

]





ccrys said:


> Can be mixed both ground signals from balanced to have more power lineout ? Like single ended from ifi.



Technically there is no 'ground signal. in the balanced path. For each channel, you'll have an non-inverted (normal) signal on one conductor wire and an inverted signal on the other conductor wire. So the right channel are made up of R+ (*non-inverted) and R- (*inverted channel), where the left channel are L+ and L-. The non-inverted and inverted signal acts like a pulling-pushing force, doubling the transient speed of the transducer. An 'S-balanced like' ground channel uses an buffer to only pull / sink the signal (R+ or L+) in, giving a similar effect as balanced but via a different mechanism - Since there is no active signal in the S-balanced ground channels, shorting them out isn't a problem. But for a true balanced circuit, you are effectively shorting the active L- and R- signal together - the best case is that it will affect the SQ and performance of the amp section, while the worst case is that you will burn-out the L- and R- amp section all together and destroy your BTR5 (or any balanced source).

Again, never plug any single-ended headphone into a balanced socket, with or without adapter. It will never work that way.



majo123 said:


> Hey does it come with usbc to usbc cable ? Was just wondering about wired to my galaxy......cheers.



Nope, you'll have to buy your own C-to-C cable.


----------



## majo123

ClieOS said:


> Nope, you'll have to buy your own C-to-C cable


 yeah thought that was probably the case being mainly designed for bluetooth...cheers.


----------



## majo123

SteveOliver said:


> I don't know to be honest I didn't open the accessory pack as I already have an USB A to C cable I used for charging. I will check tonight if nobody else as replied by then.
> 
> I also have a C to C cable here already that came with my 1TB Samsung SSD drive so I will try wired to my V30 soon
> 
> Edit: I just tried V30 wired to BTR5. UAPP is outputting streamed Tidal no problem, BTR5 is showing the correct 96Khz bit rate too. This is a great little device.



Good stuff,  I do have a usbc to usbc cable that came with my galaxy s10 but i will purchase a shorter one.


----------



## zolom

LDAC 900 on my S10, stutters. 
Solution:  turn off Location,  reduces chopping.


----------



## soufiaj

Anyone, help! 

@FiiO sorry I haven’t reply your comments but now my USB function is doing good only until...

...today my FiiO BTR5’s LED screen goes off permanently! Is anybody experiencing the same? Luckily it didn’t happen while it turned off (otherwise I thought it doesn’t turn on). 

I still can hear music but screen is not turned on and so unable to navigate. Was just randomly clicking the power button with phone bluetooth in order to turn it on for now.

Oh no...What am I gonna do? Or What should I do? Been after 1.5 week before this happens. Kindly advise.  Thanks...


----------



## McShackle

Devodonaldson said:


> Source volume should always be maxed out



I've just tried setting phone (S10+) output to max, and btr5 volume at 25, and music started to crackle randomly.
I've tried playing the same song using fiio music app and neutron music player, the music crackles at different points. 
Reducing phone volume to 83% and upping btr5 volume to 32 seems to stop any crackling. 

Anyone having similar issues with maxing phone output?

Using LDAC output at best effort(adaptive bit rate)
Music is FLAC format.
Btr5 firmware updates to 1.0.6.


----------



## zolom

Pulled the trigger on a BTR5 + case (aliexpress). Now I am trying to answer myself,  whether that was required,  having a superb es100 for mobility and mojo at home.


----------



## majo123

Well mines just arrived early,  wasn't expecting until next Mon/Tues ...looks like I'm going to have some fun this afternoon.


----------



## psikey

zolom said:


> Pulled the trigger on a BTR5 + case (aliexpress). Now I am trying to answer myself,  whether that was required,  having a superb es100 for mobility and mojo at home.



Depends what your driving. Don't expect BTR5 to be a major step up from ES100 balanced over LDAC sonically. ES100 still great SQ.


----------



## FinBenton

Got mine, Im running Hifiman Sundaras from this on H-gain single ended aptx-HD, sounds pretty good and gets way louder than I ever need to but I'm getting the balanced cable anyway.


----------



## 435279

FinBenton said:


> Got mine, Im running Hifiman Sundaras from this on H-gain single ended aptx-HD, sounds pretty good and gets way louder than I ever need to but I'm getting the balanced cable anyway.



I'm running Mr Speakers AFC from the balanced output. Plenty loud enough at vol 35 and high gain.

Not too sure how long the battery will last though.


----------



## psikey

McShackle said:


> I've just tried setting phone (S10+) output to max, and btr5 volume at 25, and music started to crackle randomly.
> I've tried playing the same song using fiio music app and neutron music player, the music crackles at different points.
> Reducing phone volume to 83% and upping btr5 volume to 32 seems to stop any crackling.
> 
> ...



Always have my S10+ BT volume set to max then adjust with the BTR5. No noise of any kind other than beautiful music.


----------



## majo123

Ok so initial impressions........turned on and paired, stuck some er4xr balanced on , were talking 2 mins set up and 1 test track Amazon hd..... its excellent , I'm totally a wired guy normally but this sounds very good and probably for my use which is at work I probably wont bother wiring it ...excellent sound for its price range and well above.


----------



## majo123

Just trying wired now with the andro,  working smooth and not a glitch so far
   ..its a little better wired , maybe a tad more resolution showing through and more depth but don't want to take anything away from the bluetooth which is very good indeed.


----------



## 435279

@majo123 I agree with your findings, lets see in a few weeks, after new gear syndrome has worn off,  but I don't think the BTR5 can be beaten for portability and features, especially when the cost is added to the equation.


----------



## majo123

SteveOliver said:


> @majo123 I agree with your findings, lets see in a few weeks, after new gear syndrome has worn off,  but I don't think the BTR5 can be beaten for portability and features, especially when the cost is added to the equation.



Agreed give it some time.... but i also too feel you cant beat this for the money,  I thought the mo was an excellent bang for buck but this tops it by far.


----------



## sinquito

Bought mine from Hifigo a few days ago, it will be probably here in the next week. Looking forward to it. Maybe I end up buying some balanced cables for the HD600 if the power of the single ended output is not enough.
Will report back, once I have it. I trust Fiio as the bluetooth implementation of the Q5s has been very solid.


----------



## psikey

sinquito said:


> Bought mine from Hifigo a few days ago, it will be probably here in the next week. Looking forward to it. Maybe I end up buying some balanced cables for the HD600 if the power of the single ended output is not enough.
> Will report back, once I have it. I trust Fiio as the bluetooth implementation of the Q5s has been very solid.


I found BT on my BTR3 poor but excellent on my BTR5.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Mine has arrived today.
Bluetooth on LDAC Best effort works like a charm.
Paired it with my PM-3 balanced it sounds nice.
Have to take some serious listening time tomorrow.
From the short time, there isn't much difference between Btr5 and V30 in high gain.
Maybe a slightly advantage to the V30 in sound quality.
The BTR5 is going brighter much faster on higher volumes, i think.
Will chime in after my listening session again.


----------



## cpaulik (Jan 17, 2020)

I really like the BTR5 for it's convenience. It is perfect for watching TV without disturbing my girlfriend. Sound quality wise it is good but it can't compete with my Dragonfly Cobalt.

The Cobalt sounds much more transparent and three dimensional. Have been mainly listening on Andromeda SS using LDAC with the BTR5


----------



## theGatMan (Jan 17, 2020)

After an initial delivery date of late February, mine arrived today.

Package had been opened, the unit had a few fingerprints.  It was charged to 80%.  it seems the unit had been powered up before, perhaps it was returned for some reason.  At any rate it otherwise appears brand new, the accessories and paperwork under the tray were untouched.  It arrived with FW 1.0.4, so after listening for about an hour, I charged it up to 100% and upgraded to 1.0.6 with zero drama.  The updater preserved the previous FW, so if any issues show up, I can roll back.  No issues after a few more hours use.

Paired with iPhone 11 Pro and Shure SE846 fitted with the white filters and medium olives tips, it's almost too bright- the treble extension is noteworthy.  It would be far too harsh with silicone tips.

I might revert the Shure to the default nozzle filters. 

Quibbles are mild and are as follows:

The system EQ is pretty much the same trash as one can find built into iOS. 
The FiiO app is pretty basic, but the menu system on the device is straightforward enough. 
The display absolutely sucks in outdoor light.

For the size and intended use it seems to be exactly as billed.  The headroom compared to, say, the Shure BT2 cable is well advanced and there is obvious extra detail, even with AAC tracks.

I'm particularly pleased that it still runs even while being charged from a power bank, that will be quite useful for my monthly transpacific flights.


----------



## ClieOS (Jan 17, 2020)

While nice on build qualify, I have found the lack of a back clip on FiiO official BTR5 leather case making it less than useful. To remedy the problem without any major modding, I order an add-on back clip from Taobao that is meant for walkie talkie to see if it will work or not. The result is pretty good.














I would have wished for it to be 20% smaller,  though otherwise it works quite well. The doubLe sided tape on the clip is super strong so it should be quite secure. The clip itself can be removed when not in use.


----------



## theGatMan (Jan 17, 2020)

I think a pager clip or holster might do the trick...


----------



## theGatMan (Jan 17, 2020)

Sorry for the double post... one like this.

https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Leath...17?keywords=pager+clip&qid=1579319845&sr=8-17


----------



## sinquito

theGatMan said:


> Sorry for the double post... one like this.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Leath...17?keywords=pager+clip&qid=1579319845&sr=8-17



I didn't remember what a pager was, it actually remembered me of a swiss army knife holder or a leatherman/multitool knife holder. 

I suppose that could also work.


----------



## theGatMan

Well, one does have to be of a certain age to remember pagers, after all...


----------



## zolom

ClieOS said:


> While nice on build qualify, I have found the lack of a back clip on FiiO official BTR5 leather case making it less than useful. To remedy the problem without any major modding, I order an add-on back clip from Taobao that is meant for walkie talkie to see if it will work or not. The result is pretty good.


Can you provide a link for that clip. 

Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

zolom said:


> Can you provide a link for that clip.
> 
> Thanks


https://m.tb.cn/h.VYlEXWd?sm=8aa8f6


----------



## 435279

The Fiio Music app has an option to use the HWA (LHDC) codec. My phone, the LG V30, doesn't support HWA directly but the app implies if I select the HWA option then it should.

Has anybody got this to work on a V30 or other device?


----------



## pholcus1975

Btr5 doesn't support HWA. Btr3 does.


----------



## ClieOS

SteveOliver said:


> The Fiio Music app has an option to use the HWA (LHDC) codec. My phone, the LG V30, doesn't support HWA directly but the app implies if I select the HWA option then it should.
> 
> Has anybody got this to work on a V30 or other device?



Like @pholcus1975 said, no HWA for BTR5. Even with BTR3, HWA connection is poor at best so I won't worry (or use) it.


----------



## 435279

ClieOS said:


> Like @pholcus1975 said, no HWA for BTR5. Even with BTR3, HWA connection is poor at best so I won't worry (or use) it.



Thanks for the reply, good to know I'm not missing out on anything important.


----------



## archy121

SteveOliver said:


> Edit: I just tried V30 wired to BTR5. UAPP is outputting streamed Tidal no problem, BTR5 is showing the correct 96Khz bit rate too. This is a great little device.



Would you be kind enough to do a more detailed comparison of V30 over USBC to BTR5. 

Although both devices use the same ESS DAC I’m wondering if using the BTR5 with its Balanced output can offer a noticeable improvement over V30 output. Is it enough improvement to justify using V30 as source connected to BTR5 Balanced out ? 

Also have you experienced any glitches listening to hires above 24/96 when using USBC with V30 ?


----------



## hongky (Jan 18, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Like @pholcus1975 said, no HWA for BTR5. Even with BTR3, HWA connection is poor at best so I won't worry (or use) it.



I got great HWA connection between my Q5S with P30pro


----------



## 435279

archy121 said:


> Would you be kind enough to do a more detailed comparison of V30 over USBC to BTR5.
> 
> Although both devices use the same ESS DAC I’m wondering if using the BTR5 with its Balanced output can offer a noticeable improvement over V30 output. Is it enough improvement to justify using V30 as source connected to BTR5 Balanced out ?
> 
> Also have you experienced any glitches listening to hires above 24/96 when using USBC with V30 ?



No glitches at all after the initial issues I had which were fixed with a phone restart.

I've been doing some comparisons:

For me V30 -> BTR5 (wired) -> Ultimate Ears UE 18+ Pro beats the headphone output of the V30 but only by a tiny bit. The balanced output of the BTR5 has slightly more depth/sound-stage and obviously a fair bit more power but I couldn't find a headphone in my collection that actually needed more power than the V30 outputs to get to dangerous listening levels.

There really isn't a lot in it. If you don't need the slight extra convenience Bluetooth offers when on the go then I would say perhaps just stick with the V30's headphone socket.


----------



## ClieOS

hongky said:


> I got great HWA connection between my Q5S with P30pro



Only because Huawei makes HWA support in its own smartphone a priority, but fail to optimize the codec enough for it to work on any other brand (*HWA is originally developed by Savitech, but Huawei acquired the exclusive right to license it). It is almost like Sony with LDAC at first, making it an exclusive codec for its own gears which led to nowhere. Only when Sony opens up the codec and adds it into the Android source code that it gets the wide adaptation today. Huawei has already abandoned further HWA optimization but instead plan to redevelop a new HWA codec (*2.0) that will be incompatible with the current HWA codec, hence why FiiO decided not to include it in the BTR5.


----------



## PaganDL

Just my 2 cents, @ClieOS,

Open Source or semi Open Source is always helpful...
Be interested to see how this develops, didn't realise HWA 2.0 codec was going to come out so soon or near future.

Hope you have a great day !


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 18, 2020)

Joined the club as well for 76£. For that price it seems a no brainer to me.  First of all, it is a very beautiful device.  The most beautiful device ever to me. 

Nice form factor, not as small as the es100 but I do not care at all, it just feels perfect to me.

Great idea also that the clip is on the plastic case so you do not damage this beauty by using it.

I bought it mostly for the usb mode in a small form factor with a powerful balanced mode for my 4Xx and 58X.

I have also the es100, xdsd and xCan with the xCan to be by far the best option for me. So I will test it in the following weeks to see if the btr5 is a giant killer and whether it can compete with xCan for driving my 58x as well. Regardless the outcome for 1/4 of the price I currently have no regrets.

Does anyone know if it can work also with iPhone in usb mode with a direct usb c to lighting cable without an apple usb adaptor? And can recommend any specific model/ brand that is working reliable?


----------



## psikey

SteveOliver said:


> No glitches at all after the initial issues I had which were fixed with a phone restart.
> 
> I've been doing some comparisons:
> 
> ...



And yet I recently sold my V30+ and find the BTR5 more pleasing.


----------



## Devodonaldson

rafaelo said:


> Joined the club as well for 76£. For that price it seems a no brainer to me.  First of all, it is a very beautiful device.  The most beautiful device ever to me.
> 
> Nice form factor, not as small as the es100 but I do not care at all, it just feels perfect to me.
> 
> ...


Your thoughts on xdsd vs btr5. I have both ND like both. Feel xdsd is a little more warm, perhaps musical, but also love the btr5.


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 18, 2020)

Devodonaldson said:


> Your thoughts on xdsd vs btr5. I have both ND like both. Feel xdsd is a little more warm, perhaps musical, but also love the btr5.


Thank you for your interest, I will do that but I need some time first since not much time with two small babies and all that.

I am fan of the ifi devices and of usb audio but never heard the LDAC.

However, and paradoxically enough I like more my xCan than the xdsd even when the former has only Bluetooth audio. You can read my reviews for both these devices here in headfi in the relevant threads.

My conclusion so far is that the amp section is so important for demanding cans like the sennheisers that I am really fan that obscures smaller differences between DACs or Bluetooth Vs usb. And on that spirit devices like xdsd and xCan have an op-amp that is difficult to be directly competed with small devices that have also smaller  batteries like es100 and btr5.

So far (2 hours listening) it sound different to me even in comparison to the es100 but there are so many dac filters and settings that I cannot make a meaningful comparison yet.

But for this price and using usb audio for an additional small factor device and for iPhone usage, it was only between a dragonfly black (I have the v1.2) and btr5 for me and on that basis there is no comparison between the two thinking the additional functionalities and technology of btr5. Bluetooth, Usb xmos, FPGA controlled clocks , balanced output and a very sexy black device for roughly the same low price seems a surreal deal to me...


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 18, 2020)

Does anyone please know if the following could work?

pengo USB-C to Lightning Cable [0.2m Apple MFI Certified], Double-Braided Nylon Resistant, PD Fast Charging Cable Compatible with Lightning iPhone Series (Use with Type-C Charger) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07Y6ZJT1D/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_f82iEb599Z7ET


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 18, 2020)

Devodonaldson said:


> Your thoughts on xdsd vs btr5. I have both ND like both. Feel xdsd is a little more warm, perhaps musical, but also love the btr5.


In addition, the obvious thing is that one has LDAC the other does not, one has MQA the other (yet) does not.

Also, I need to add that xCan can be used together with BTR5 so one does not necessarily exclude the other, I need to try at some point this particular combination.

But you are right the xDSD is smoother than all the sabre dac chips even the one in the xCan sibling. The ess100 seems also smoother than the btr5 but is also early days and there so many dac filter settings to check in case that make a difference.


----------



## Marco Angel

salla45 said:


> I have been using the BTR5 now for a couple of months, and it's dawning on me just how much it's changed my portable usage.
> 
> Previous flagships for my musing listening are now playing 2nd fiddle:
> 
> ...


The ES100 did that to me, shurelly there will be better DAPs with more detali and power, but since non of them will have the same filling as having a flagship celphone, beeing snappier and having bigger and better screens, this become my way to listen on the go and sometimes in my home. Now my X5 3gen, and X7 are catching dust.
im just waiting for the EQ in LDAC to pull the trigger for the BTR5, mainwhile i will keep in the forum up to the next updates


----------



## theveterans

BTR5 + CA Vega = awesomesauce!


----------



## alexwise

So got my device today. As I've been having some questions and no one replied, I'm going to go ahead and answer them myself. The questions were regarding the EQ and its implementation in terms of quality as some mentioned that it cause audio quality loss.  

First of all, it does lower the volume a bit, but as confirmed by Fiio it this thread it is done to avoid clipping. Secondly, enabling EQ does not lower sound quality from what I can hear. Drives my DT770 80 Ohm with EQ  enabled no problem at acceptable volume (7 steps away from maxed out).

Overall, coming from Q1 Mark II, this is absolutely next level. No being tethered with a cord to a phone is amazing. Love the device.


----------



## Hanesu

alexwise said:


> So got my device today. As I've been having some questions and no one replied, I'm going to go ahead and answer them myself. The questions were regarding the EQ and its implementation in terms of quality as some mentioned that it cause audio quality loss.
> 
> First of all, it does lower the volume a bit, but as confirmed by Fiio it this thread it is done to avoid clipping. Secondly, enabling EQ does not lower sound quality from what I can hear. Drives my DT770 80 Ohm with EQ  enabled no problem at acceptable volume (7 steps away from maxed out).
> 
> Overall, coming from Q1 Mark II, this is absolutely next level. No being tethered with a cord to a phone is amazing. Love the device.



Thanks for your comment and interesting you don’t hear the audio quality loss - because I belong to those who definitely hear it (of course besides lower volume). May I ask weather you use Android or iOS? Are you on the newest firmware?


----------



## alexwise

Hanesu said:


> Thanks for your comment and interesting you don’t hear the audio quality loss - because I belong to those who definitely hear it (of course besides lower volume). May I ask weather you use Android or iOS? Are you on the newest firmware?


Because of previous mentions of inferior SQ with EQ, I really tried to nit-pick but couldn't hear any difference. Even if there is, I'm very fortunate to not hear it, ahah.

I'm on iOS (iPhone 6s) and my device arrived with 1.06 pre-installed.


----------



## pholcus1975

Just pulled the trigger. It should arrive tomorrow. I have a Btr3 in my car and it's amazing. Btr5 will be.on the go. Plenue PM2 for home use.


----------



## Hanesu

alexwise said:


> Because of previous mentions of inferior SQ with EQ, I really tried to nit-pick but couldn't hear any difference. Even if there is, I'm very fortunate to not hear it, ahah.
> 
> I'm on iOS (iPhone 6s) and my device arrived with 1.06 pre-installed.



Interesting. I am almost 100% certain I hear a reduced treble switching on EQ (and keeping it flat). With my Oriolus Mk2. 1.06 is the newest firmware, right? Think I have an older one because I use a Mac and could not upgrade so far. Wondering whether upgrading would change something.


----------



## caprimulgus

Finally got shipping notice on my preorder (Minidisc.com.au here in Australia). Can’t wait!


----------



## megabigeye (Jan 20, 2020)

I don't yet have the TR5, but I do have a bunch of questions (and a suggestion)!

Does anybody have a recommendation for a relatively inexpensive ($65 or less), neutral/transparent 2.5mm MMCX cable to use with the BTR5?  I'm most concerned with durability and flexibility.  Please and thank you!*

Also, for Android, aren't there two apps?  Why can I only find the FiiO Music App, but not the controller app?  Have they been consolidated?  If so, is BTR5 fully compatible with other playback apps, like UAPP?

Can you apply EQ with other apps (especially UAPP)?  If so, why aren't people EQing LDAC via another app?
For people claiming that the EQ reduces volume/fidelity, try boosting all bands to maximum.  Does that normalize the volume between EQ on and off?  You should be better able to tell if it's reducing fidelity if volumes are matched.  You should always EQ by cutting bands, not boosting.  So if you want to apply +6dB bass boost, you would raise _all_ frequencies to maximum, and then adjust everything you don't want boosted back down -6dB.  So you might have, say, 31.5Hz and 62Hz at +12dB, and then the rest of the range would be at +6dB.

(Also, wow.  Just downloaded the FiiO Music App and _man_ is the EQ annoying to use.  So, you want +6dB boost?  Too bad!  You can have 6.1!  Or you can have 5.0!  Those values are right next to each other, Mr. Fatfingers!  It'd be _much_ easier if you could just enter numeric values.)



*Yes, yes.  I have already looked at hakuzen's thread and the cheap cables thread and can't make heads nor tails of either one.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

rafaelo said:


> Joined the club as well for 76£. For that price it seems a no brainer to me.  First of all, it is a very beautiful device.  The most beautiful device ever to me.
> 
> Nice form factor, not as small as the es100 but I do not care at all, it just feels perfect to me.
> 
> ...



Hey rafaelo, Where did you choose to purchase the btr5 from?


----------



## salla45

megabigeye said:


> I don't yet have the TR5, but I do have a bunch of questions (and a suggestion)!
> 
> Does anybody have a recommendation for a relatively inexpensive ($65 or less), neutral/transparent 2.5mm MMCX cable to use with the BTR5?  I'm most concerned with durability and flexibility.  Please and thank you!*
> 
> ...




https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B07FZWNRWK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

got this over xmas for my FH7's perfect and great price.


----------



## rafaelo

VirtuaVillain said:


> Hey rafaelo, Where did you choose to purchase the btr5 from?



Amp3 UK. 


I have pre-ordered ages ago. It had a 15% discount code at the time.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

rafaelo said:


> Amp3 UK.
> 
> 
> I have pre-ordered ages ago. It had a 15% discount code at the time.


Thanks for the info!


----------



## Q Mass (Jan 20, 2020)

I have reluctantly been forced to request a return of my BTR5 to Amp3 (great retailer BTW, no quibbles and they got the BTR5 to me well ahead of promised date, so no complaints there) due to a very unreliable LDAC connection.
When walking (or sitting for that matter) with the BTR5 in one front pocket, and my phone (Sony XZ1 compact)  in the other front trouser pocket the connection kept dropping in an extremely annoying manner.
At first I thought I must just suffer a very 'dirty' RF environment in my home, but this was even more of a problem while walking around outdoors.
Weirdly, it did quite well in the car on a seven hour trip at the weekend, even while being stuck in traffic, which I would guess exposed us to all the other BT devices often found in cars).

600 was a bit better than 900, but still far from flawless, and I didn't try aptx-hd as the choice of the BTR5 was specifically to use LDAC, which I thought would work well with my Sony phone.

I even had occasional problems while the phone and device were stationary within a few inches of one-another, which was a big surprise.

I know it's early days for the BTR5, and not many actually have it yet, but I've seen no other complaints of this nature yet, only praise.
All the reviews I've seen report BT stability somewhere between normal and good.
Can't understand it 

EDIT:
I forgot that the BTR5 also shut down without warning on me too (it was still at nearly full charge, and sitting stationary on my desk near the phone).
This only occured once though, so not much of an issue really, not confidence inspiring though.


----------



## MaxD

Q Mass said:


> I know it's early days for the BTR5, and not many actually have it yet, but I've seen no other complaints of this nature yet, only praise.
> All the reviews I've seen report BT stability somewhere between normal and good.



Hey man,  well I have about 20 hours listening on it now.    All Over LDAC (varying bit rates) not a single unexpected issue so far.   I say unexpected because I walk through Victoria station regularly.    The middle of that concourse is a radio storm and always takes out BT for me.   But it reconnected as soon as I passed and apart from that it just works.    I also just tested it at my desk at home which has 8 BT devices and 4 wifi devices.  Also 4 PC's so it is a bit noisy.    Took my player about 20ft away and could still connect with the BTR% using ldac no problem.    So I would assume yours is faulty.   Dont worry though AMP3 are good guys when it comes to returns.


----------



## Q Mass

MaxD said:


> Hey man,  well I have about 20 hours listening on it now.    All Over LDAC (varying bit rates) not a single unexpected issue so far.   I say unexpected because I walk through Victoria station regularly.    The middle of that concourse is a radio storm and always takes out BT for me.   But it reconnected as soon as I passed and apart from that it just works.    I also just tested it at my desk at home which has 8 BT devices and 4 wifi devices.  Also 4 PC's so it is a bit noisy.    Took my player about 20ft away and could still connect with the BTR% using ldac no problem.    So I would assume yours is faulty.   Dont worry though AMP3 are good guys when it comes to returns.


Yeah, I guess it is faulty.
Or I suppose it could be my phone, but I haven't had any BT troubles with it otherwise.
AMP3 are great indeed.

I was amazed by the size of the BTR5, and by the power output, this thing will power most anything that isn't stupidly power hungry.
Low gain @ 42 (out of 60)is enough to drive my Denon D2000's to a genuinely serious volume.
And bass resolution and drive are frankly astonishing for something the size of a stick of gum!
I did find that symbals have a touch too much 'sizzle' for my liking, and sibilants are the same, just slightly exaggerated and uncomfortable for me.
I'm talking minor issues here though.
If the LDAC stability were better I'm certain that I could have overcome my slight dislike of the splashy stuff and kept the amp.
Overall I found the treble to be slightly distant sounding, and a little less impressive than the lower end of the spectrum.
Not bad by any means at all, just not as attention getting as the great bass and percussion reproduction.
The sibilants did get my attention quite a bit though, despite the otherwise very slightly timid highs.

Battery life is OK, but the impact of LDAC on my phone battery was definitely noticable.

This all sounds a bit negative and that's not my intention.
Although I've decided that BT devices aren't where I need them to be just yet, I am very impressed.
I'm going to stick to wires for a while,  and keep my eye on BT devices.


----------



## Hanesu

megabigeye said:


> I don't yet have the TR5, but I do have a bunch of questions (and a suggestion)!
> 
> Does anybody have a recommendation for a relatively inexpensive ($65 or less), neutral/transparent 2.5mm MMCX cable to use with the BTR5?  I'm most concerned with durability and flexibility.  Please and thank you!*
> 
> ...



Hi!

The „second“ app only seems to be available as beta via aptk and cannot be found in the play store (nor is it available for iOS) yet.

Concerning the EQ: Volume increase is not the issue here (since it is normal to avoid clipping) but a loss in treble details if the EQ is on *FLAT. *
So lowering the levers does not solve the problem here because the problem occurs when no levers are moved at all.

Thanks for your suggestion anyway!


----------



## pholcus1975

I wonder how it compares to my Plenue PM2.
On paper, it's slightly inferior, xpecially about crosstalk. I hope background is black, even with my re600s.


----------



## megabigeye

Hanesu said:


> Hi!
> 
> The „second“ app only seems to be available as beta via aptk and cannot be found in the play store (nor is it available for iOS) yet.
> 
> ...


My bad.  I guess I must've misunderstood somewhere along the way.  I thought people were saying that the volume level goes down when EQ is engaged.


----------



## qu8it

To those who used both the ES100 and BTR5, how does battery life actually compare?


----------



## Hanesu

qu8it said:


> To those who used both the ES100 and BTR5, how does battery life actually compare?



ES100 for sure lasts longer!


----------



## rafaelo

Hanesu said:


> ES100 for sure lasts longer



+1

It seems to me that too.


----------



## pholcus1975

Arrived today. As always Prime is top notch service. Ordered yesterday. Now charging, tonight I will give it a go.


----------



## dinosrk

rafaelo said:


> Joined the club as well for 76£. For that price it seems a no brainer to me.  First of all, it is a very beautiful device.  The most beautiful device ever to me.
> 
> Nice form factor, not as small as the es100 but I do not care at all, it just feels perfect to me.
> 
> ...



Hi, do you need the additional lighting dongle or it is possible to use just a lightning to usb-c cable?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## zeko39

I have a Google Pixel 2XL and wondered, is there a way to force it to stay in LDAC 990kbps? Whenever I want to change it in developer settings it switches back to adaptive bit rate.


----------



## joshnor713

zeko39 said:


> I have a Google Pixel 2XL and wondered, is there a way to force it to stay in LDAC 990kbps? Whenever I want to change it in developer settings it switches back to adaptive bit rate.



On my BTR3, in the Bluetooth settings, next to the connected device is a settings cog. In there I'm able to force LDAC (there's a switch for it).


----------



## zeko39

joshnor713 said:


> On my BTR3, in the Bluetooth settings, next to the connected device is a settings cog. In there I'm able to force LDAC (there's a switch for it).


LDAC itself is no problem. But there are various LDAC bit rates from 330kbps for best connection quality to 660kbps, 990kbps for best audio quality and adaptive bit rate which chooses whatever bit rate it sees fit. And of course I’d love to force it into 990kbps for best quality but it always reverts back to adaptive by itself.


----------



## pholcus1975

Ok, just played about 1 hr, but I must have received a faulty unit.
3.5 socket makes my iems crackle and sound shifts from left to right and viceversa when I touch and turn the plug. Tried with 2 iems. With no other device I have this issue, Btr3 included.
Morever bt ldac connection is not good at all, even at 50 cm distance I have drops! With Btr3 I can go at about 7-8 meters with ldac 990 setting.
Soundwise from 1st impression Btr5 is very good, really shines on highs, no hiss at all even with re600s at max volume, high gain.
But I must return it and ask for a new unit, this one is unusable.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

@zeko39 
When you pick 660, is it reverting to adaptive again?


----------



## zeko39

Chris Kaoss said:


> When you pick 660, is it reverting to adaptive again?


Yes, unfortunately. I’ve read somewhere that the V30 is one of the few devices to stay at 990 out of the box.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Yes, i got no complaints with it. Still with 6 - 7 meter distance and a wall between it's just fine on 990.


----------



## zolom (Jan 22, 2020)

zeko39 said:


> Yes, unfortunately. I’ve read somewhere that the V30 is one of the few devices to stay at 990 out of the box.


LDAC 990 was operating quite good on my ES100 while connected to the V30+. With my new Samsung phone (S10 Exynos) it stutters a lot. Turning off *Location* (on the phone) somewhat improves, but still with some stuttering.
As far as I remember,  with the V30+ , every time, I  had to re-set the LDAC quality from "best effort" (the default) to "optimized"  (990).


----------



## rafaelo

dinosrk said:


> Hi, do you need the additional lighting dongle or it is possible to use just a lightning to usb-c cable?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Actually I do not know, I have exactly the same question but nobody answered to me yet. Maybe @FiiO  can confirm please?

In any case until we try we do not know because there is always the possibility to be usable but with different sound quality.


----------



## digititus

zeko39 said:


> I have a Google Pixel 2XL and wondered, is there a way to force it to stay in LDAC 990kbps? Whenever I want to change it in developer settings it switches back to adaptive bit rate.


That's normal. You need to change it everytime. Thanks Google


----------



## HipHopScribe

rafaelo said:


> In any case until we try we do not know because there is always the possibility to be usable but with different sound quality.



It's a digital signal, either it works or it doesn't work, the sound quality would not change


----------



## psikey

digititus said:


> That's normal. You need to change it everytime. Thanks Google



If you have a Sony A105 or ZX507 DAP it stays at 990. Separate section in BT settings, not in developer menu of Android. So manufactures could code it but obviously most phone users will leave at stable default.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Jan 22, 2020)

psikey said:


> If you have a Sony A105 or ZX507 DAP it stays at 990. Separate section in BT settings, not in developer menu of Android. So manufactures could code it but obviously most phone users will leave at stable default.



Sony's smartphones (at least the XZ2 Compact on Android Pie, but I'm assuming other recent models) also let you lock into 990 without the developer menu, and the setting is persistent. Makes sense that Sony is handling this correctly since LDAC is their codec. I highly recommend Sony's smartphones in general, only area I'd take a Pixel over them is camera quality and faster OS updates (though Sony is much quicker than LG, Motorola or Samsung). Pixels always have annoying quirks like this in my experience


----------



## zeko39 (Jan 22, 2020)

Finally got my Pixel to work with LDAC 990. There seems to be a weird bug that resets it always to adaptive bit rate. By changing the Sample Rate from default (96 kHz) to 88.2 kHz allowed me to change to LDAC 990 permanently. Funnily the 88.2 kHz were reset to 96 again, lol. But a different issue I have now is, the BTR5 seems like it can’t handle 2 connections at the same time when set to LDAC 990. It starts stuttering and ‘ghosting’ until I disconnect the second device (iPad/AAC). Then it runs perfectly fine. Can anybody confirm this?


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 22, 2020)

HipHopScribe said:


> It's a digital signal, either it works or it doesn't work, the sound quality would not change


I personally disagree with that statement for various reasons but an extensive discussion will take us off topic I am afraid. In similar spirit, must work for sure then, because is a digital signal.

Many people including myself I experience a small  difference between apple usb 2 and apple usb 3 adaptors. I have both and tested with my xdsd but many will not probably notice.

But for me the main  issue is that  I do not know if these third party usb-c to lighting cables are all good. I have one third party charging cable and my iPad pro stops charging at 85%. Is any usb c to lighting official cable made from apple?

In any case, I do not care for small differences because convenience is the key for me I need to use with my iPhone.  But I am afraid crappy third party cables as I have personally bad experience in the past.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Jan 22, 2020)

rafaelo said:


> I personally disagree with that statement for various reasons but an extensive discussion will take us off topic I am afraid. In similar spirit, must work for sure then, because is a digital signal.
> 
> Many people including myself I experience a small  difference between apple usb 2 and apple usb 3 adaptors. I have both and tested with my xdsd but many will not probably notice.
> 
> ...



The quality of cables and whether they conform to Apple's Lightning specs and/or USB-C specs is definitely a legitimate issue, so I make no claims as to whether a particular lightning to usb-c cables is good quality or whether Apple's device (or the BTR5) will treat it the same as the adapter and actually allow a connection to be made. It very well might not work at all, can't say without trying it or FiiO chiming in. All I'm saying is that your 1s and 0s are either getting to the BTR5 or they're not, a certain cable isn't gonna make those 1s and 0s sound better. The only issue I could possibly imagine would be poor design introducing electrical noise, but I imagine the BTR5 has decent shielding and is itself designed to prevent that


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 22, 2020)

HipHopScribe said:


> The quality of cables and whether they conform to Apple's Lightning specs and/or USB-C specs is definitely a legitimate issue, so I make no claims as to whether a particular lightning to usb-c cables is good quality or whether Apple's device (or the BTR5) will treat it the same as the adapter and actually allow a connection to be made. It very well might not work at all, can't say without trying it or FiiO chiming in. All I'm saying is that your 1s and 0s are either getting to the BTR5 or they're not, a certain cable isn't gonna make those 1s and 0s sound better. The only issue I could possibly imagine would be poor design introducing electrical noise, but I imagine the BTR5 has decent shielding and is itself designed to prevent that


I did not mean the quality of the cable itself but how the adapter connection work Vs the cable connection.

This is a big controversy as I said whether digits are digits in audio in general, I am privileged to have the lengthiest and most boring review in headfi ever regarding the ipurifier 3 which is tangential to this issue.

Nobody should pass the torture of reading that review but if I can not convince anyone there I definitely can't convince him/her here and I actually I do not intent to ... 

I just need someone to suggest me a cable that works at least decently.


----------



## jsmiller58

zeko39 said:


> Yes, unfortunately. I’ve read somewhere that the V30 is one of the few devices to stay at 990 out of the box.



Confirmed.  I have a v30 and have to reset to 990 every time in developer settings.


----------



## ClieOS

zeko39 said:


> Finally got my Pixel to work with LDAC 990. There seems to be a weird bug that resets it always to adaptive bit rate. By changing the Sample Rate from default (96 kHz) to 88.2 kHz allowed me to change to LDAC 990 permanently. Funnily the 88.2 kHz were reset to 96 again, lol. But a different issue I have now is, the BTR5 seems like it can’t handle 2 connections at the same time when set to LDAC 990. It starts stuttering and ‘ghosting’ until I disconnect the second device (iPad/AAC). Then it runs perfectly fine. Can anybody confirm this?



It depends on the 2 devices used. LDAC 990 is closed to use up most of the Bluetooth bandwidth (BT audio is the same for BT4.2 and BT5.0, so it is limited under 1000Kbps). Depends on how good the BT implementation on the devices are, you can get decent connection but I won't bet of them to be perfectly stable if there is some environmental interference.


----------



## grandros

Can anyone explain me the High and Low Gain setting? What is better to use?


----------



## rafaelo

grandros said:


> Can anyone explain me the High and Low Gain setting? What is better to use?


Difficult to drive headphones like 6XX and 58X I use high gain.  Easy to drive headphones like Meze 99 I use low.  This how I understand and use this setting.


----------



## psikey (Jan 23, 2020)

grandros said:


> Can anyone explain me the High and Low Gain setting? What is better to use?



Don't use high if your IEM's/Headphones don't need the volume as high gain will likely use more battery power.

I'm only on volume 17* out of 64 on low gain balanced with my SE846's so on high gain I'd have less volume steps to play with without blowing my ears off !


* With phone BT volume set at max


----------



## Ab10

Anybody can let me know what is the default filter selected out-of-the box ?


----------



## psikey (Jan 23, 2020)

Ab10 said:


> Anybody can let me know what is the default filter selected out-of-the box ?



Mine shows APOD1. I've not altered filters. In Fiio music app it shows as "Apodizing fast roll-off filter type 1"


----------



## lubik96

Does EQ work with other apps then Fiio Music?
Mine does not work neither with Tidal (android or PC, bluetooth or wired, does not matter) nor any other non-streaming app.
Basically, it looks like it did not work at all. I tried to change the eq setting either via app or on the device itself, but no change in sound at all.

It also does not charge from PC when the device is on. I have to turn it off, reconnect and only then it starts to charge. When I have it running, even with Charge option on, it does not charge.
I am running latest 1.0.6 firmware.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

On AAC the EQ works with Amazon Music and UAPP on V30.

Still works wired out of my Surface with Foobar, Groove and Amazon Music.

Have change the EQ via app in device settings.
Hope that helps.


----------



## lubik96

What about charging?
Does it normally charge all the time when connected? Even with playing music simultaneously?
Mine shows the charging animation only when I set the Charge option to OFF and back to ON, but it keeps animating only while the display is on.
On next display wake up, its not charging again. This is very frustrating, I need to turn off the device completely to let it charge.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Chris Kaoss said:


> On AAC the EQ works with Amazon Music and UAPP on V30.
> 
> Still works wired out of my Surface with Foobar, Groove and Amazon Music.
> 
> ...



Kicked the FiiO out for bt connection from my surface, now with wire only, EQ doesn't work anymore. ^^
Really weird.
Will keep testing this behavior.

Charging is working while music is playing, even it stops when i switch to off (always).


----------



## Devodonaldson

lubik96 said:


> Does EQ work with other apps then Fiio Music?
> Mine does not work neither with Tidal (android or PC, bluetooth or wired, does not matter) nor any other non-streaming app.
> Basically, it looks like it did not work at all. I tried to change the eq setting either via app or on the device itself, but no change in sound at all.
> 
> ...


Used as a Bluetooth DAC, EQ works on any codec other than LDAC.


----------



## lubik96

I need to try it with different codec, however I need eq only for wired mode with PC. While streaming from mobile I use different, android based system wide DSP called JamesDSP. Now I need to use btr also as desktop solution because I sold Mojo and waiting for new Dac to arrive. Does anyone tried eq with PC, Tidal app?


----------



## joewongchunting

rafaelo said:


> Actually I do not know, I have exactly the same question but nobody answered to me yet. Maybe @FiiO  can confirm please?
> 
> In any case until we try we do not know because there is always the possibility to be usable but with different sound quality.





dinosrk said:


> Hi, do you need the additional lighting dongle or it is possible to use just a lightning to usb-c cable?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Do need the lightning dongle. Lighting to USB-C cable alone won’t work.


----------



## Arghavan

majo123 said:


> Just trying wired now with the andro,  working smooth and not a glitch so far   ..its a little better wired , maybe a tad more resolution showing through and more depth but don't want to take anything away from the bluetooth which is very good indeed.


How is the hissing with Andromeda? Is it noticeable?


----------



## majo123

Arghavan said:


> How is the hissing with Andromeda? Is it noticeable?


 no it's dead silent, the more and more i use it the more and more I'm impressed with it! The only niggle is battery life which balanced ldac is around 5 hours I think (thanks to @SteveOliver for the battery info) apart from that it's truly brilliant and my go to on the go.


----------



## joewongchunting (Jan 24, 2020)

majo123 said:


> no it's dead silent, the more and more i use it the more and more I'm impressed with it! The only niggle is battery life which balanced ldac is around 5 hours I think (thanks to @SteveOliver for the battery info) apart from that it's truly brilliant and my go to on the go.



My experience was the same as yours. I’m using it with the andromeda too. I have it at volume 12-16 depending on environmental noise, and I don’t hear any hiss at this level.

I had tried bringing the volume up to 35 while playing a silent FLAC and that’s where hiss becomes audible. But at that kind of volume, it’s way too loud to be listening to music.

My experience with bluetooth vs wire also mirrors yours, with wired being just a tiny bit more high res and more “depth”. But overall, I really have to listen hard to notice, and that’s really more of examining the gears instead of enjoying the music.


----------



## majo123

joewongchunting said:


> My experience was the same as yours. I’m using it with the andromeda too. I have it at volume 12-16 depending on environmental noise, and I don’t hear any hiss at this level.
> 
> I had tried bringing the volume up to 35 while playing a silent FLAC and that’s where hiss becomes audible. But at that kind of volume, it’s way too loud to be listening to music.
> 
> My experience with bluetooth vs wire also mirrors yours, with wired being just a tiny bit more high res and more “depth”. But overall, I really have to listen hard to notice, and that’s really more of examining the gears instead of enjoying the music.



I totally agree, the difference is there but not so much that I would probably go wired , well not for my use anyway which is at work  ..honestly it's the best on the go I have used. Bluetooth range is excellent and connects in seconds, feel the audio has settled a little too over the week or so of use , possibly a bit of brain burn in too? ...I'm mainly using this with er4xr at the minute and it sounds pretty great with Amazon hd from my galaxy s10 5g with no issues whst so ever....if anybody wants a great sounding bluetooth dac then honestly it's a no brainer


----------



## Hanesu

lubik96 said:


> Does EQ work with other apps then Fiio Music?
> Mine does not work neither with Tidal (android or PC, bluetooth or wired, does not matter) nor any other non-streaming app.
> Basically, it looks like it did not work at all. I tried to change the eq setting either via app or on the device itself, but no change in sound at all.
> 
> ...



Maybe you used the EQ directly in the music app? That does not work with other apps. You must first tap on Bluetooth device control in the sidebar, connect your device there and then use the EQ within these controls! Should work with Tidal!


----------



## goody

Guys how does the filters and eq work?...does it work over Bluetooth or only in dac mode .
 Could hear any difference over Bluetooth


----------



## pholcus1975

I finally returned Btr5 , as I wrote before, audio drops even ar 50 cm sistance, and crackling 3.5 out.
Now I'm on Btr3 and can confirm with Ldac 990 kbps I can go around the house and even at 12 meters I have no dropouts.
If you guys tell me Btr5 has a wider range, no doubt I got a faulty unit. Maybe I will wait 2nd batch.


----------



## lubik96

Hanesu said:


> Maybe you used the EQ directly in the music app? That does not work with other apps. You must first tap on Bluetooth device control in the sidebar, connect your device there and then use the EQ within these controls! Should work with Tidal!



No, I tried the correct eq in the btr5 menu. I also have the beta app for pure bluetooth device settings without player.
It does not work, or I am deaf.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Jan 24, 2020)

lubik96 said:


> I need to try it with different codec, however I need eq only for wired mode with PC. While streaming from mobile I use different, android based system wide DSP called JamesDSP. Now I need to use btr also as desktop solution because I sold Mojo and waiting for new Dac to arrive. Does anyone tried eq with PC, Tidal app?


Have you tried to set the bit depth to 16/44.1? does it work with?

On every sample rate i've selected in the 16bit range on my Surface, the eq's working with select it right on the btr5.
On 32 bit there's no change for me.

I'll keep on testing. 

Edit: Connection is wired without any bluetooth device connected.
Reedit: Listening via Potplayer on Win10.


----------



## Hanesu

lubik96 said:


> No, I tried the correct eq in the btr5 menu. I also have the beta app for pure bluetooth device settings without player.
> It does not work, or I am deaf.



I see! Well.....as I wrote before, I also think that the BTR5 software is still very buggy. As much as I like the concept of Fiio being the cheaper alternative while still offering nice gear....ALL Fiio devices I used so far had software glitches from the beginning on....


----------



## ClieOS

EQ will work on BTR5 in Bluetooth only as it utilizes CSR8675 (*the BT chip) internal EQ system. It won't work on LDAC mostly because CSR8675's EQ system isn't working with LDAC natively since LDAC is a relatively newer codec (*newer than CSR8675 anyway). It can be done via customized firmware which FiiO is currently developing. EQ doesn't work on USB DAC mode because BTR5 doesn't utilize CSR8675 in USB DAC mode, as the XMOS chip is doing the USB DAC job. But if you are using BTR5 as USB DAC, then the simple thing to do is use the source (PC or smartphone's music playback app) EQ system, which most of the time will be far better implementation than the one in CSR8675 anyway. As EQ is applied digitally onto the music file before it is decoded in BTR5's DAC, there is no advantage of using CSR8675's EQ system when the source app can do a better job.


----------



## lubik96

Thanks, now it all make sense


----------



## Arghavan

majo123 said:


> no it's dead silent, the more and more i use it the more and more I'm impressed with it! The only niggle is battery life which balanced ldac is around 5 hours I think (thanks to @SteveOliver for the battery info) apart from that it's truly brilliant and my go to on the go.


That's good to hear since I plan to use it with Solaris.
Since you mentioned balanced output which has the higher 2 ohms output impedance, do you notice any change in sound compared to single ended? In theory SE should have more bass with Andromeda because of lower output impedance.


----------



## majo123

Arghavan said:


> That's good to hear since I plan to use it with Solaris.
> Since you mentioned balanced output which has the higher 2 ohms output impedance, do you notice any change in sound compared to single ended? In theory SE should have more bass with Andromeda because of lower output impedance.



To be honest I haven't even tried the 3.5mm, all of my gear is set up for balanced either 4.4 or 2.5 and dont really use the 3.5mm on anything...its part of the reason I chose the btr5 in the first place and also was intrigued after reading and watching some of the reviews and opinions across the internet. I have never ever thought bluetooth anything came close to wired and admittedly avoided it for quite a while, but the btr5 using ldac balanced Is as good as the hype and we all know where that train stops some times.


----------



## zikarus

Maybe a stupid question, but anyways:

Is the BTR5 also capable to send BT data? In other words could it be used when connected to my smartphone via cable and a BT headphone device connected to the BTR5 wirelessly?


----------



## FinBenton

I made a balanced cable from the original Sundara cable, man soldering those balanced 2.5mm is no fun at all lol. Sounds very very good with btr5 and aptx hd, theres now ton of power to drive these.


----------



## tmb821

zikarus said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but anyways:
> 
> Is the BTR5 also capable to send BT data? In other words could it be used when connected to my smartphone via cable and a BT headphone device connected to the BTR5 wirelessly?



No, the btr5 can not transmit bt.


----------



## majo123

FinBenton said:


> I made a balanced cable from the original Sundara cable, man soldering those balanced 2.5mm is no fun at all lol. Sounds very very good with btr5 and aptx hd, theres now ton of power to drive these.



I make cables now and again and indeed the 2.5mm are a bit fiddly especially when you want to put 8 cores of reasonable size wire in....some times I think that that's the reason that most went to 4.4 lol


----------



## LordZero

Can anyone compare this to the e10k or Fiio k3?


----------



## alexwise

LordZero said:


> Can anyone compare this to the e10k or Fiio k3?


Just like e10k and k3, it’s transparent


----------



## zolom

BTR5 should arrive today. 
Plan to compare it with my ES100, Mojo and Dragonfly Red - source: Samsung 10; iems: FH7 balance, SE846 se. 
Will try share my (non-professional) impression.


----------



## zolom (Jan 26, 2020)

Initial impression BTR5 vs. ES100.
 Balance FH7 IEMs, source UAPP Tidal HiFi.  LDAC 660 from Samsung S10.
Hard to pin-point SQ and stage differnces.  BTR5 slightly clearer more emphsised on treble especialy   with wonen's vocals.  No harsh sibilace.  Both BTR5  and ES100 sound great.

USB audio sounds *much better*. Streaming via  S10, UAPP Tidal hifi set to bit-perfect and the FH7 balance.
SQ here,  not as clear and defined as with the Chord MOJO,  but still not so far. 
These are very initial observations.


----------



## rafaelo (Jan 26, 2020)

Devodonaldson said:


> Your thoughts on xdsd vs btr5. I have both ND like both. Feel xdsd is a little more warm, perhaps musical, but also love the btr5.


After a week of using it and based on your question I decided to do my first and last direct comparison with xDSD and I actually I forgot how much I like my xDSD.

My comparison is based only on the usb input from my iPhone and a balanced connection to my 58X (s-balanced from my xDSD.)

To answer my question this is not a giant killer as far as difficult to drive headphones that scale considerably is conserned. Contrary to the mainstream belief I find that 58x like the rest of the 6 series scale considerably and that the ifi devices are scaling quite uniquely the senns. For example, I find them quite muddy with my es100 which makes me some times not to like them at all.

In solo instruments music passages like acoustic guitar music there is not a lot of difference, the treble and the highs are quite good in the btr5.
It is the low registers and the more convoluted loaded music passages where the xDSD is clearly superior to me. Especially, the dynamics are better and the bass more controlled with better separation of instruments. Is one category above as its size and the more than 4x price suggest.

However, what difference exist in critical listening is only attributed to the physical limitations of this device as clearly there must be some limitations given this small size and not in the actual quality of the dac implementation and only for special and difficult to drive headphones.  Not sure if it is worth to spend more with easy to drive headphones that do not scale much as my Meze 99.

I consider the btr5 in the same size category with the es100 and dragonfly and as such some limitations are inevitable, nothing to criticize.

Acctually, for this price the btr5 is almost perfect and has the best value for money proposition to me currently in the market.

If I had to buy one device and considering the cost btr5 is what I would buy. I find it more user friendly even than es100. It reconnects immediately with my iPhone, has small qute screen that can make the phone app redundant at times and the sound quality is great given the price and the size of this device.

From now on, for the vast majority of my time and for convenience reasons,  I will listen in Bluetooth mode (which sounds great even in AAC mode) with this device and with the vast majority of my headphones and budget iems, even with movies before I sleep. And if it breaks I can buy another one without sweat. 

5 stars from me, no hesitation. I hope it will prove durable and stand the use of time. My only request for the new model after two years is if fiio can manage to make it more energy efficient from the usb input like the dragonfly so to be able to use it without its internal battery. 

Congratulations,  well done fiio!!!


----------



## MarkF786

Has anyone else had problems with the volume buttons on the BTR5?  I got mine in early December and only used it a couple times, and found the volume difficult to adjust.  Last night I went to use it again and found the down volume button barely works; I have it press it repeatedly until it randomly responds.

Luckily I was still in the window of time to return it to Amazon, but I’m hesitant to buy another if this issue is common.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

MarkF786 said:


> Has anyone else had problems with the volume buttons on the BTR5?  I got mine in early December and only used it a couple times, and found the volume difficult to adjust.  Last night I went to use it again and found the down volume button barely works; I have it press it repeatedly until it randomly responds.
> 
> Luckily I was still in the window of time to return it to Amazon, but I’m hesitant to buy another if this issue is common.


All is fine on my btr5 and works flawless.
Never heard of such a problem before.


----------



## psikey (Jan 26, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> While nice on build qualify, I have found the lack of a back clip on FiiO official BTR5 leather case making it less than useful. To remedy the problem without any major modding, I order an add-on back clip from Taobao that is meant for walkie talkie to see if it will work or not. The result is pretty good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I went off my loop/lanyard mod and now use a Sony cable clip I had with some M3 tape. Not a fan of the included clip/case.










No volume key issues ref. question above.


----------



## Devodonaldson

rafaelo said:


> After a week of using it and based on your question I decided to do my first and last direct comparison with xDSD and I actually I forgot how much I like my xDSD.
> 
> My comparison is based only on the usb input from my iPhone and a balanced connection to my 58X (s-balanced from my xDSD.)
> 
> ...


If you want to take your Bluetooth listening up a notch with little weight to consider, the reiyin APTX hd USB C transmitter. Uses a small USB c to USB a adapter, and that can be connected to Apple OTG kit, the white dongle you use for USB audio on iOS. It's only like $40, and it definitely sounds better than AAC, and not a huge drain on the battery.


----------



## sinquito

Ok, so I got my BTR5 this week, today I opened it. First impressions are good, I was expecting a lack of power in the single ended output based on my previous experience with the Q5s.
This little fella has some oomph, it can drive my HD600 to decent levels with volume set at 35/60 on high gain, excellent! The HE400i didn't fare so well, there is a sense of lack of bass. The X2HR sound pretty good, the best out of those 3 headphones. 
The built quality seems pretty good, it feels like a pebble, I like the glass and metal construction, but it's a fingerprint magnet and I fear that the glass could scratch easily. The plastic clip is ok, but I think that the (p)leather case could be a good idea, kinda regret not buying it.
The display is very small, but useful, need to use it outside in the sun to see how is readability. The buttons are ok, the way the navigation works can be confusing, the "menu" and play buttons are used to cycle through the menu and you change the settings using the volume rocker, I think that cycle the menu with the volume rocker makes more sense and change the settings with the play button and the menu to exit or enter.
I didn't try to use the NFC feature as I never like it on any device.
The 3.5 mm jack fits very snugly with the headphone's plug, I like it, hopefully it won't get loose over time.
USB DAC works effortless, it even displays which sample rate playing. No drivers needed on Win 10 with USB 1.0 as expected.
The plastic clip is ok, works and keeps the BTR5 "protected" but I would like a better more elegant solution. 
I haven't tried with IEMs, but once I do, I will report back, specially regarding hiss.
LDAC 990 with the S10 (exynos) keeps cutting, so I use best effort (adaptive), sounds ok, I am not very sensitive to bluetooth codecs, I think that even it sounds the same on USB or Bluetooth.




 


Any way, I am pretty satisfied with the BTR5, definitely has more power than expected and it can be used as USB DAC, which is very handy. For $119 USD you cannot go wrong. It kinda makes the Q5s redundant now.


----------



## zolom (Jan 27, 2020)

Watch a high level review of  BTR5 vs. ES100 by Brian R


----------



## rafaelo

Devodonaldson said:


> If you want to take your Bluetooth listening up a notch with little weight to consider, the reiyin APTX hd USB C transmitter. Uses a small USB c to USB a adapter, and that can be connected to Apple OTG kit, the white dongle you use for USB audio on iOS. It's only like $40, and it definitely sounds better than AAC, and not a huge drain on the battery.


Thank you very much for this information, I really appreciate it.

I have a second android phone but unfortunately is a previous Moto X generation that Lenovo did not update as promised. The most convenient solution for me is to use LDAC when I will upgrade my android phone with something newer since I carry always both phones with me.


----------



## CTR640

So with this I can have my wired headphones to be wireless? Is there any information on the impedance of the headphones?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

CTR640 said:


> So with this I can have my wired headphones to be wireless? Is there any information on the impedance of the headphones?


It plays with all available impedances.
If it's what you mean.
Have paired it with the T1, which goes way over 1kOhm on some frequencies.

It's not as loud as with a proper amp, but it plays well on moderate volume.
Balanced is a must have on these headphones with the btr5.


----------



## CTR640

Chris Kaoss said:


> It plays with all available impedances.
> If it's what you mean.
> Have paired it with the T1, which goes way over 1kOhm on some frequencies.
> 
> ...


Excellent. How's the battery life? There is ES100 too.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

I've tested the Btr5 with a regular Usb-C to Usb-C cable purchased at amazon.
It do work with V30 and UAPP.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

CTR640 said:


> Excellent. How's the battery life? There is ES100 too.


Battery life is quite good, but along with the weaker amp ES100 stays longer.
Keep in mind that the Btr5 is twice the power of ES100.


----------



## zolom

The more I listen to the BTR5 (LDAC 660, UAPP, Tidal HiFi) I appreciate its SQ more and more. Now I think that it slightly surpasses the ES100's SQ especially for clearer highs and better stage(?).

As far as the battery goes I managed to get more than 6 hours of play (iem: FH7, volume set to 21, low gain) before my battery reached 21% (from 100%). I will keep monitoring the battery utilization.​


----------



## Hanesu (Jan 28, 2020)

zolom said:


> Watch a high level review of  BTR5 vs. ES100 by Brian R



It’s a nice review, without question, just not so detailed in the sound comparison part (as he also says by himself). By the way, I hear things slightly different than him (might just be me though): To my ears BTR5 does not sound clearer, just has a different tonality. BTR5 pronounces mids/voices more, while ES100 sounds more v-shaped and colder in direct comparison. I’ve compared these two for quite a while now, side by side . For those who know: BTR5 actually sounds closer to XB10 by A&K (than ES100), just with slightly less bass emphasis and a bit more treble details...but still similar warm tonality with close voices....while ES100 pushes voices a bit more to the background (but also sounds wider/spacier through this).

Anyway I think these slight sound differences are not so important because whatever of these devices you listen to - you get used to its tonality soon. They all have their strengths and weaknesses in other areas though.


----------



## Benno1988

How does this little guy go with full sized headphones?

Sony MDR Z1R through the balanced output should do well?


----------



## Hanesu

Benno1988 said:


> How does this little guy go with full sized headphones?
> 
> Sony MDR Z1R through the balanced output should do well?



Should be totally fine! I know someone who powered his HD800s with ES100 from time to time! And BTR5 has way more power..


----------



## CTR640

Chris Kaoss said:


> Battery life is quite good, but along with the weaker amp ES100 stays longer.
> Keep in mind that the Btr5 is twice the power of ES100.


Yeah, the ES100 up to 14 hours? And can you tell in what terms the BTR5 is twice the power of ES100?


----------



## FinBenton

CTR640 said:


> Yeah, the ES100 up to 14 hours? And can you tell in what terms the BTR5 is twice the power of ES100?


ES100 has around 80mW of power at 32 ohms according to https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...arstudio-es100-bluetooth-dac-amp-review.9551/ .
BTR-5 is specced at 220mW at 32 ohms.

Both in balanced mode.


----------



## zolom (Jan 28, 2020)

14 hours on ES100 is probabely for lower codec,  lower volume & gain and SE iems. Never achieved even closer to that with LDAC and balance iems (two different ES100s).


----------



## psikey (Jan 28, 2020)

With BTR5 it really makes you wonder why bother messing around with expensive DAP's its that good. Just tried & returning a ZX507 mostly due to EU volume cap as it does sound great, but does make you question if worth spending nearly 8x as much if sound quality is main requirement rather than a BTR5+Android smartphone combo.

If your a novice head-fi'er with a limited budget you have to check-out a BTR5 over LDAC BT or as a wired DAC/AMP.


----------



## majo123

psikey said:


> With BTR5 it really makes you wonder why bother messing around with expensive DAP's its that good. Just tried & returning a ZX507 mostly due to EU volume cap as it does sound great, but does make you question if worth spending nearly 8x as much if sound quality is main requirement rather than a BTR5+Android smartphone combo.
> 
> If your a novice head-fi'er with a limited budget you have to check-out a BTR5 over LDAC BT or as a wired DAC/AMP.



I agree,  its made me think exactly the same at times....amazing for the money.


----------



## Hanesu (Jan 29, 2020)

psikey said:


> With BTR5 it really makes you wonder why bother messing around with expensive DAP's its that good. Just tried & returning a ZX507 mostly due to EU volume cap as it does sound great, but does make you question if worth spending nearly 8x as much if sound quality is main requirement rather than a BTR5+Android smartphone combo.
> 
> If your a novice head-fi'er with a limited budget you have to check-out a BTR5 over LDAC BT or as a wired DAC/AMP.



Not to forget that almost every smartphone operates so much smoother than any DAP on the market, especially if you use streaming services.

I came to your conclusion, too, already some years ago, after trying out XB10 after using many different DAPs. Sound quality of recent (and not only recent) BT-DACs is a lot better than their reputation amongst audiophiles and the SQ differences of DAPs are way overrated in my opinion. In the end, source is much less important in the audio chain than earphones/headphones.


----------



## archy121

Chris Kaoss said:


> I've tested the Btr5 with a regular Usb-C to Usb-C cable purchased at amazon.
> It do work with V30 and UAPP.



Can you please share your experience of V30 with BTR5 over USB C Balanced output Versus V30 headphone out.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

archy121 said:


> Can you please share your experience of V30 with BTR5 over USB C Balanced output Versus V30 headphone out.


Sure.
But it needs a bit of listening time.
Its hard till impossible to match volumes by hearing. 
Don't know how it'll effect audio from se to bal with nearly 100mW more on the Btr5.


----------



## jsmiller58

psikey said:


> With BTR5 it really makes you wonder why bother messing around with expensive DAP's its that good. Just tried & returning a ZX507 mostly due to EU volume cap as it does sound great, but does make you question if worth spending nearly 8x as much if sound quality is main requirement rather than a BTR5+Android smartphone combo.
> 
> If your a novice head-fi'er with a limited budget you have to check-out a BTR5 over LDAC BT or as a wired DAC/AMP.



I'll +1 that as well!  I do have a very nice DAP (R6 Pro) but the BTR5 with LDAC is so good, and my v30 is just so much smoother (and has to always be with me anyway) that I am almost exclusively using the BTR5...  Considering I have been a never-ever anti-Bluetooth snob, that's a big change for me.


----------



## majo123

jsmiller58 said:


> I'll +1 that as well!  I do have a very nice DAP (R6 Pro) but the BTR5 with LDAC is so good, and my v30 is just so much smoother (and has to always be with me anyway) that I am almost exclusively using the BTR5...  Considering I have been a never-ever anti-Bluetooth snob, that's a big change for me.



I too was one of the bluetooth naysayers....never did I think I would compare to wired....the btr5 is everything us type of guys are hyping , I've been trying to sell it's worth to other naysayers too.... @KEV G is a true skeptic lol....come  on my friend you know your gonna.


----------



## psikey

Just started using the BTR5 also with my PC and realised it wasn't changing to correct Sample Rate as tracks changed so went looking for a Fiio USB driver and found the *Fiio Control Panel *install which now shows BTR5 in Control Panel as FiiO Q series and in Applet does show as Fiio BTR5 and now changes to correct Sample Rate (single unfold with Tidal Masters to 96000 or 88200)

Couple of interesting points:


Does BTR5 not support ASIO as shows as "not active" ?
The BTR5 only seems to support 16 or 32 bit (not 24bit) so if a Tidal track is 24/96 is there some kind of scaling going off to 32 bit?


----------



## salla45

psikey said:


> Just started using the BTR5 also with my PC and realised it wasn't changing to correct Sample Rate as tracks changed so went looking for a Fiio USB driver and found the *Fiio Control Panel *install which now shows BTR5 in Control Panel as FiiO Q series and in Applet does show as Fiio BTR5 and now changes to correct Sample Rate (single unfold with Tidal Masters to 96000 or 88200)
> 
> Couple of interesting points:
> 
> ...


I have dabbled with the BTR5 using Roon and PC, and am getting "bit perfect" signal which is a good start. Moreover, I have BTR5 ASIO and BTR5 Wasapi modes







Looking at the signal path for a 24bit Flac, all is good...





The Fiio panel still says 32bits.

I had the same issue with the Fiio M11 and asked fiio about it, and they told me it's just showing the default max bitrate. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## psikey (Jan 29, 2020)

salla45 said:


> I have dabbled with the BTR5 using Roon and PC, and am getting "bit perfect" signal which is a good start. Moreover, I have BTR5 ASIO and BTR5 Wasapi modes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you install the Fiio USB driver  on PC or something else. I don't think all apps support ASIO (don't currently use Roon).
Sound fantastic anyway.


----------



## salla45

psikey said:


> Did you install the Fiio USB driver  on PC or something else. I don't think all apps support ASIO (don't currently use Roon).
> Sound fantastic anyway.


yeah i did install the fiio driver. You can get a Roon trial for a couple of weeks. It's a great system.


----------



## psikey

jsmiller58 said:


> I'll +1 that as well!  I do have a very nice DAP (R6 Pro) but the BTR5 with LDAC is so good, and my v30 is just so much smoother (and has to always be with me anyway) that I am almost exclusively using the BTR5...  Considering I have been a never-ever anti-Bluetooth snob, that's a big change for me.



Even as a wired DAC to PC (or USB with UAPP on Android) its up there with much more expensive DAC's including the Mojo IMO. Even Spotify sounds great though I mostly use Tidal and own HD FLAC files (few DSD's).

In office I'm using it wired to PC (keeps it charged too) then while out & about BT via LDAC. Since I fitted my little cable clip instead of case it just all-in-one awesomeness!.


----------



## psikey

salla45 said:


> yeah i did install the fiio driver. You can get a Roon trial for a couple of weeks. It's a great system.



I did trial it and agree its great, but as a tight Yorkshireman the cost is more than the benefit/need for me    (unless costs have come down).


----------



## salla45

psikey said:


> I did trial it and agree its great, but as a tight Yorkshireman the cost is more than the benefit/need for me    (unless costs have come down).


I hear that. It is a(nother) wedge to find every year


----------



## Benno1988

Thanks a lot guys. Ordered one.

Will let you know how it goes. Tidal/Spotify on phone > LDAC > BRT5 > Sony Z1R / HD6xx


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Connecting the Btr5 via bluetooth (aptX HD) to my Surface Pro looks like a bad decision, especially with the use of a Logitech bluetooth mouse and the Surface pen.
You'll get a lot if cracks and interrupts while , even when the Btr is close to the Surface.
Without moving the mouse or pen the cracks persist irregularly without any interrupts.
The bluetooth connection with the Surface isn't as stable as with a smartphone.


----------



## Triakel (Jan 29, 2020)

I'm a couple of days in with my BTR5. Nice! I don't have high-end gear, so I'll leave those comparisons to others. I can say that is sounds *really good* (technical term), particularly when playing high-quality audio files.

When connected to a computer via USB, it sounds like it could be a "real" desktop amp. Overall, the output seems drier/crisper than what comes though my O2+SDAC or Xonar STX, but is not noticeably inferior. It might actually be better for critical listening in some situations (classical). "Clear and capable" are the adjectives that spring to mind. I am sometimes amazed by how good small, wireless devices can sound these days.

I tried the balanced mode with my HD6xx and have no complaints.They sound great. (This is my first try with balanced gear, though, so I have no reference to compare.) I perceive across-the-board improvements vs. single-output mode (using same headphones). Really impressed with the BTR5/6xx combo in balanced mode. I also tried my HD560 Ovations-IIs in single-ended mode and felt there was enough power.

I spent a couple hours in single-output mode with my ie80s found myself enjoying the music but wanting better IEMs. I attribute this to the BTR5 being able to adequately drive my over-ear headphones in a way my previous mobile gear could not. The difference I rationalized as "mobile" vs. "stationary" is erased. So now the deficiencies of the ie80 are obvious.

I think the BTR5 Bluetooth detail lacks just a bit, but only occasionally. Tidal Hi-FI tracks over LDAC are lovely. I streamed FLACs via DLNA from my network using the FiiO Android app and liked that even better.

Sound quality is a *noticeable* step up up from my BTR1, which I liked when new, but always perceived as a bit muddy in the lows and artificial in the highs. The BTR5 doesn't share these weaknesses. Also, I find the signal range of the BTR5 to be much better. I can walk two rooms, often more, from my source and not lose signal. With the BTR1, I have to stay in the same room.

Usability is also good. The clip is strong and the unit is very pocketable. The buttons and features are easy to use and navigate. I haven't tried the microphones, yet.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my purchase so far. I keep reminding myself this was (only) a $120 purchase. I was considering buying a DAP, but this device is so versatile and enjoyable that I might not need one. I can now listen to any of my headphones/earphones wirelessly, while cooking supper or walking around the house, and have perhaps 90-percent of the experience of sitting in a chair with a wired setup. This is exactly what I wanted.


----------



## majo123 (Jan 29, 2020)

Triakel said:


> I'm a couple of days in with my BTR5. Nice! I don't have high-end gear, so I'll leave those comparisons to others. I can say that is sounds *really good* (technical term), particularly when playing high-quality audio files.
> 
> When connected to a computer via USB, it sounds like it could be a "real" desktop amp. Overall, the output seems drier/crisper than what comes though my O2+SCAD or Xonar STX, but is not noticeably inferior. It might actually be better for critical listening in some situations (classical). "Clear and capable" are the adjectives that spring to mind. I am sometimes amazed by how good small, wireless devices can sound these days.
> 
> ...



And there sits the beauty of the btr5,  90 percent in a ultra portable stick/clip, turns your favourite iems/headphones more portable  ............  *sounds really good* is easily the most universal technical term and definitely describes the btr5 to a T


----------



## pilgrimbilly

Some very persuasive people here, consider me persuaded - just ordered.

Next to zero BT experience from before, and didn't like any BT headsets I auditioned lately, so have got high hopes for the BTR5. Will be going LGV30-UAPP-Tidal-BTR5/LDAC-Nightowls.


----------



## jsmiller58

pilgrimbilly said:


> Some very persuasive people here, consider me persuaded - just ordered.
> 
> Next to zero BT experience from before, and didn't like any BT headsets I auditioned lately, so have got high hopes for the BTR5. Will be going LGV30-UAPP-Tidal-BTR5/LDAC-Nightowls.


If you haven't already done so, enable developer options in settings.  This will allow you to force highest transfer rate for LDAC (as opposed to best effort).  Note (a) you will need to do that every time you connect the BTR5 (v30 thing) and that while this gives you highest quality it will dramatically cut the range so have nothing in between the phone and BTR5, and keep them pretty close.


----------



## RAFA

I also bought one 

This will replace my crappy work headset. When I read, that it has NC for calls and 2 mics, I was sold.

What I have read in the past few weeks, is that when connected with USB it appears somewhat laggy.
Is this still the case?


----------



## joewongchunting

RAFA said:


> I also bought one
> 
> This will replace my crappy work headset. When I read, that it has NC for calls and 2 mics, I was sold.
> 
> ...



It doesn’t have 2 mics built-in. There’s only one. But if you plug in a pair of earphones that has mic, then it will make use of both mics for NC, but I think it only works on the 3.5SE and not the 2.5BAL. 

I have used it in USB Mode on both my iPhone and laptop, no lag for YouTube and Netflix.


----------



## RAFA

joewongchunting said:


> It doesn’t have 2 mics built-in. There’s only one. But if you plug in a pair of earphones that has mic, then it will make use of both mics for NC, but I think it only works on the 3.5SE and not the 2.5BAL.
> 
> I have used it in USB Mode on both my iPhone and laptop, no lag for YouTube and Netflix.



Thank you for clarifying.

I really looking forward to this device


----------



## joewongchunting

Is there anyone here with a pair of DUNU Dk3001Pro?

I have noticed that if I set the EQ on the BTR5 to 63hz +12dB, the Dk3001Pro starts having clicking. Is there anyone having similar issue?


----------



## salla45

pilgrimbilly said:


> Some very persuasive people here, consider me persuaded - just ordered.
> 
> Next to zero BT experience from before, and didn't like any BT headsets I auditioned lately, so have got high hopes for the BTR5. Will be going LGV30-UAPP-Tidal-BTR5/LDAC-Nightowls.





jsmiller58 said:


> If you haven't already done so, enable developer options in settings.  This will allow you to force highest transfer rate for LDAC (as opposed to best effort).  Note (a) you will need to do that every time you connect the BTR5 (v30 thing) and that while this gives you highest quality it will dramatically cut the range so have nothing in between the phone and BTR5, and keep them pretty close.



I run my BTR5 with V30, it works really well. I leave it in best effort mode and I can't for the life of me hear any SQ diff between that and forced 990  - YMMV but certainly, my advice is not to get too bogged down with the numbers and just enjoy the music.

In 990 mode it's just too choppy for me to use it consistently, and also seems to stutter (even) more when using higher bitrate files like 24/96. IMHO the dev option is a bit of red herring. It seems a bit of a non-sequitur to have to keep the units almost stuck together physically just to maintain a signal, lol. Sort of defeats the object of having a bluetooth dongle


----------



## joewongchunting (Jan 30, 2020)

salla45 said:


> I run my BTR5 with V30, it works really well. I leave it in best effort mode and I can't for the life of me hear any SQ diff between that and forced 990  - YMMV but certainly, my advice is not to get too bogged down with the numbers and just enjoy the music.
> 
> In 990 mode it's just too choppy for me to use it consistently, and also seems to stutter (even) more when using higher bitrate files like 24/96. IMHO the dev option is a bit of red herring. It seems a bit of a non-sequitur to have to keep the units almost stuck together physically just to maintain a signal, lol. Sort of defeats the object of having a bluetooth dongle



The connection also gets choppy for me on Note8 LDAC set to 990. I tested with a pair of Sony WH-1000xm3, and it too was choppy with 990. So I think the problem is with the phone and not the BTR5 or 1000xm3. Anyway 660 has been very stable and I don’t really hear a difference between 990 vs 660. My tracks are mainly 16bit 44.1khz.

I do hear a difference from 24bit 96/88.2khz, but that’s only when I listen to the same song in two sampling rate back to back, then the difference becomes barely apparent for me. So I just settle for 16bit 44.1khz, as it’s too much hassle to get Hi-Res files.


----------



## jsmiller58

salla45 said:


> I run my BTR5 with V30, it works really well. I leave it in best effort mode and I can't for the life of me hear any SQ diff between that and forced 990  - YMMV but certainly, my advice is not to get too bogged down with the numbers and just enjoy the music.
> 
> In 990 mode it's just too choppy for me to use it consistently, and also seems to stutter (even) more when using higher bitrate files like 24/96. IMHO the dev option is a bit of red herring. It seems a bit of a non-sequitur to have to keep the units almost stuck together physically just to maintain a signal, lol. Sort of defeats the object of having a bluetooth dongle



Good points.  Nonetheless the option is there and should at least be known by all.  For my use case, which is commuting, having the phone and BTR5 close together is not an issue at all.  If you were in an office or home environment and wanted to have the two separate for whatever reason (leaving your phone on your desk while walking around within 30 feet or so of it) or just had too many things in pockets to keep the phone and BTR5 close to each other then the Best Effort mode is great.


----------



## psikey

I use 990kbps if at home and don't want to go wired and its fine with my Samsung S10+ and the ZX507 I had. When out & about I leave at default.


----------



## cantara256

FiiO said:


> FiiO releases the new firmware FW1.0.6 for BTR5: https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/360002.html



What about a Mac version? No one I know uses a PC here in the United States.


----------



## psikey (Jan 30, 2020)

cantara256 said:


> What about a Mac version? No one I know uses a PC here in the United States.



Maybe US will see sence one day and stop buying overpriced tech  .

Only people I ever come across in UK using Macs are directors with little tech ability.

Bit behind as was released beforw new year.


----------



## cantara256

psikey said:


> Maybe US will see sence one day and stop buying overpriced tech  .
> 
> Only people I ever come across in UK using Macs are directors with little tech ability.



LOL 

Not to start an off-thread religious war, but if by "over priced" you mean "high quality, secure, and well-built", then yes I agree. I mean, it's not like Windows isn't possibly the biggest piece of buggy and virus infested crap ever invented.

Ok I'll stop now, please don't take me seriously here, or I'll start arguing vi vs emacs.


----------



## NWLierly (Jan 30, 2020)

> Ok I'll stop now, please don't take me seriously here, or I'll start arguing vi vs emacs.



vi is a sports car, with a gated shift, and a blood thirsty clutch

emacs is a motorhome with padded walls

...but seriously, your IT guy here - I am happier managing a group of Macs - despite the fact they're fiddlier, and have less tools to manage them.


----------



## cantara256

NWLierly said:


> vi is a sports car, with a gated shift, and a blood thirsty clutch
> 
> emacs is a motorhome with padded walls
> 
> ...but seriously, your IT guy here - I am happier managing a group of Macs - despite the fact they're fiddlier, and have less tools to manage them.



LOL love that analogy

Here's the final word on this topic: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html


----------



## jsmiller58

cantara256 said:


> LOL
> 
> Not to start an off-thread religious war, but if by "over priced" you mean "high quality, secure, and well-built", then yes I agree. I mean, it's not like Windows isn't possibly the biggest piece of buggy and virus infested crap ever invented.
> 
> Ok I'll stop now, please don't take me seriously here, or I'll start arguing vi vs emacs.


VI all the way.  Emacs is so...  So New Age...


----------



## ballog

I am currently using my Hidizs AP80 as bluetooth adapter over LDAC. Does anyone here have a first hand experience of the BTR5 sound quality (in single ended) vs the AP80? Perhaps someone who has both could post a brief impression.


----------



## Tamirci (Jan 31, 2020)

X


----------



## 435279

Tamirci said:


> Would using this for headphone reviewing instead of btr5 worths the cost?



I'm not too sure what you mean could you please rephrase the question.


----------



## Tamirci (Jan 31, 2020)

X


----------



## rebbi

How, exactly, would I get my BTR5 to connect to my iPhone 7 as a USB DAC? I went into an Apple authorized reseller and tried connecting them with a (very long) USB-C to Lightning connector, but the BTR5 was connecting to the phone via Bluetooth and not USB. Am I missing something??


----------



## littlenezt

hi there, if we use single ended (3.5mm) on the btr5 will it use only single dac or is it still using both of the 9218p?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

rebbi said:


> How, exactly, would I get my BTR5 to connect to my iPhone 7 as a USB DAC? I went into an Apple authorized reseller and tried connecting them with a (very long) USB-C to Lightning connector, but the BTR5 was connecting to the phone via Bluetooth and not USB. Am I missing something??



The Iphone is not able to connect directly. You've to use the CCK, camera connection kit, to bring it to life, i guess


----------



## Chris Kaoss

littlenezt said:


> hi there, if we use single ended (3.5mm) on the btr5 will it use only single dac or is it still using both of the 9218p?


It use one of the paths.
2 paths are used for balanced connection.


----------



## littlenezt (Jan 31, 2020)

Chris Kaoss said:


> It use one of the paths.
> 2 paths are used for balanced connection.


so it means the btr5 only use one of the 9218p on the 3.5mm jacks then?

i dont mean to comparing products but is there any dual dac mode like the shanling up4 on the btr5?

was considering the btr5 for my ultra portable setup when im feeling too lazy to carry the m11


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Jan 31, 2020)

littlenezt said:


> so it means the btr5 only use one of the 9218p on the 3.5mm jacks then?
> 
> i dont mean to comparing products but is there any dual dac mode like the shanling up4 on the btr5?
> 
> was considering the btr5 for my ultra portable setup when im feeling to lazy to carry the m11


Yes, on 3.5mm se only one dac path.

On post #34 on the 2nd page of this threat you'll see the diagram of the internal connections. 

But one path/amp for ultra portable setup should fit the bill, i think.


----------



## Devodonaldson

rebbi said:


> How, exactly, would I get my BTR5 to connect to my iPhone 7 as a USB DAC? I went into an Apple authorized reseller and tried connecting them with a (very long) USB-C to Lightning connector, but the BTR5 was connecting to the phone via Bluetooth and not USB. Am I missing something??


Apple camera connection kit, USB c to asb a cable that came with btr5


----------



## Cinn314

Can anyone recommend a short usb c to usb c cable to connect this as a dac or will any do? 
(No knowledge of transfer of audio over usb c).


----------



## joewongchunting

Cinn314 said:


> Can anyone recommend a short usb c to usb c cable to connect this as a dac or will any do?
> (No knowledge of transfer of audio over usb c).



Any cable that does USB2.0 or more should be fine


----------



## cpaulik

Cinn314 said:


> Can anyone recommend a short usb c to usb c cable to connect this as a dac or will any do?
> (No knowledge of transfer of audio over usb c).


I'm using the Amazon basics USB c to USB c cable which comes in a 15cm (6in) version https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...azon+basics+usb+c+to+&sr=8-1-fkmr2&th=1&psc=1


----------



## majo123

cpaulik said:


> I'm using the Amazon basics USB c to USB c cable which comes in a 15cm (6in) version https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-Type-C-Charger-Cable/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr2_1?keywords=amazon+basics+usbctousbc&qid=1580564598&sprefix=amazon+basics+usb+c+to+&sr=8-1-fkmr2&th=1&psc=1



I also use the same cable and it works perfectly fine.


----------



## Cinn314

Many thanks for your replies guys


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 2, 2020)

Man I've been playing with this thing the last 2 days and I'm super impressed. Easy to use and sounds fantastic, especially used as a usb dac/amp. It kind of reminds me of the xdsd but smaller.

Also I'm able to go about 40 feet away and still have a good signal which is very good compared to most of my other bt receivers. The sound is nice and energetic and open with lots of detail. Sounds way above it's price point in quality- I'm using balanced out.

Psikey you were right again mate  glad I tried it, this is a keeper.

Size reference with paw 6000


----------



## Tamirci

My btr5 is stuck in SBC format. I am using LG G7 thinQ so LDAC format must be used. But no even though I had switched on LDAC format fron its settings, its always SBC.

Anybody lived and solved this before?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Tamirci said:


> My btr5 is stuck in SBC format. I am using LG G7 thinQ so LDAC format must be used. But no even though I had switched on LDAC format fron its settings, its always SBC.
> 
> Anybody lived and solved this before?


Do you have enabled "best quality" in bluetooth settings of the G7?
This has to be done before you get aptx hd and Ldac.


----------



## abitdeef

Tamirci said:


> My btr5 is stuck in SBC format. I am using LG G7 thinQ so LDAC format must be used. But no even though I had switched on LDAC format fron its settings, its always SBC.
> 
> Anybody lived and solved this before?



Do you have the tab by the device set to LDAC? Just hold bluetooth and the devices screen comes up- hit the widget and then hit the LDAC switch.


----------



## Devodonaldson (Feb 2, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Man I've been playing with this thing the last 2 days and I'm super impressed. Easy to use and sounds fantastic, especially used as a usb dac/amp. It kind of reminds me of the xdsd but smaller.
> 
> Also I'm able to go about 40 feet away and still have a good signal which is very good compared to most of my other bt receivers. The sound is nice and energetic and open with lots of detail. Sounds way above it's price point in quality- I'm using balanced out.
> 
> ...


I have xdsd and btr5. Wired, xdsd wins pretty handily, IMO. At the same time. In Bluetooth mode, the detail given by LDAC vs APTX is noticeable with how good BTR5 is, so I absot put BTR5 over xdsd for Bluetooth mode. I like XDSD warmth, but lack of overall resolution in BT mode makes it a negative in comparison.


----------



## pilgrimbilly

Tamirci said:


> My btr5 is stuck in SBC format. I am using LG G7 thinQ so LDAC format must be used. But no even though I had switched on LDAC format fron its settings, its always SBC.
> 
> Anybody lived and solved this before?



Have you enabled LDAC in Developer Options?


----------



## SBranson

I’m really enjoying my BTR5 but after being on pause for a while  i find the fade in a little annoying as it often cuts out the first few notes and I have to start the song over again.  Is there a way to defeat this?


----------



## abitdeef

Devodonaldson said:


> I have xdsd and btr5. Wired, xdsd wins pretty handily, IMO. At the same time. In Bluetooth mode, the detail given by LDAC vs APTX is noticeable with how good BTR5 is, so I absot put BTR5 over xdsd for Bluetooth mode. I like XDSD warmth, but lack of overall resolution in BT mode makes it a negative in comparison.



I had xdsd It sounded good but a bit too warm for me, I like the signature of the fiio better. I also think the dac mode of the fiio is better- bigger stage imo. This is using the balanced out. Fiio did good with this little thing. I've got a 1200 dap sitting here that I probably won't use because of the btr5.


----------



## Cinn314

Just a heads up for UK residents considering buying one of these, my order was cancelled today as due to the coronavirus in China they are having trouble getting stock.  Nowhere else seems to have in stock either.
While I'm here I shall also ask that as it may be a while for these to be available can anyone recommend a good phone dac as a replacement?
Many thanks.


----------



## musicinmymind

I am looking for Bluetooth receiver, without out dac or amp, just an receiver with ldac and does an USB out to dac. Any available in market

Maybe wrong thread for my question, sorry to derail


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Feb 3, 2020)

Cinn314 said:


> Just a heads up for UK residents considering buying one of these, my order was cancelled today as due to the coronavirus in China they are having trouble getting stock.  Nowhere else seems to have in stock either.
> While I'm here I shall also ask that as it may be a while for these to be available can anyone recommend a good phone dac as a replacement?
> Many thanks.


Don't know if i misread your question.
Do you want a ultra mobile dac (bluetooth/usb) for your headphones, or a phone with a good dac?

In first case, take a look at the ES100 from Radsone.
2nd, you can buy a used LG V30+( more than a replacement) for about 130 € right here in the sales subforum.


----------



## Cinn314

The first case was correct, a portable dac for my phone, I'm not needing it to have Bluetooth.  I'm also still planning on getting a btr5 when it's available so basically something to use in the meantime with streaming services.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Cinn314 said:


> The first case was correct, a portable dac for my phone, I'm not needing it to have Bluetooth.  I'm also still planning on getting a btr5 when it's available so basically something to use in the meantime with streaming services.


Something like the IBasso DC01/02 is what you're heading for, i think.
There is a dedicated thread for such devices like usb dongles.


----------



## whoking

When using the BTR5 with my M11 in my car the audio skips once or twice a minute when in LDAC Quality mode.  Works just fine in normal LDAC mode.  Anyone else experiencing similar performance?


----------



## PTDennis (Feb 3, 2020)

I bought my BTR5 from an official Spanish seller and received it in 2 days (Portugal). They still have stock and send to European Countries. https://zococity.es/fiio-btr5


----------



## ClieOS

whoking said:


> When using the BTR5 with my M11 in my car the audio skips once or twice a minute when in LDAC Quality mode.  Works just fine in normal LDAC mode.  Anyone else experiencing similar performance?



That depends on many factors: the antenna power of the M11, whether there are other BT source around (car's head-unit, smartphone), WiFi and well as how well LDAC is implemented on M11.

I got very stable LDAC 990kbps (SQ Preferred) connection, but I think it has something to do with the fact that I am using a Sony Xperia smartphone.


----------



## Currawong

My review is up.


----------



## toughnut

Anyone compared this with Q5/Q5S? How does it fare with stock amp module? Thinking of getting BTR5 to replace my Q5+THX combo.


----------



## Currawong

It's going to be a step down, though that will depend what you use it with how much of one.


----------



## toughnut

Currawong said:


> It's going to be a step down, though that will depend what you use it with how much of one.



Thanks, was watching your review and that itch pop up. Mostly with FW10000 and on desk. Guess will just stick with Q5 for now.


----------



## Currawong

Yeah, I reckon if you're carrying it out-and-about, then the BTR5 is much nicer to carry. At a desk, just stick with what you have I reckon.


----------



## ccrys

What about cheaper cable?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_53or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_53


----------



## Hanesu (Feb 4, 2020)

Devodonaldson said:


> I have xdsd and btr5. Wired, xdsd wins pretty handily, IMO. At the same time. In Bluetooth mode, the detail given by LDAC vs APTX is noticeable with how good BTR5 is, so I absot put BTR5 over xdsd for Bluetooth mode. I like XDSD warmth, but lack of overall resolution in BT mode makes it a negative in comparison.



Interesting. I also have both and think in AAC mode XDSD has slightly better resolution while sounding a bit softer and warmer. Overall to me it wins in SQ, though it is a close match and depending on ones preferences maybe. LDAC might change things though....haven`t used it yet because I only have Apple devices....


----------



## kingtubby100

Hi All, (first post) I have purchased the BTR5 and really like it. BT when on the move and wired when at home. 

My home setup is TIDAL/Spotify  > iphone 11 > CCK > BTR5 (3.5mm)> HD599 . The sound to my ears is very detailed, but as always I want to see if I can get better, from wired as it always shows 44.1 on the BTR5. Can this be increased? I noticed a comment on the youtube review which mentions installing the Onkyo app to get some hi-res love, are there any other options to try? Any tips appreciated.


----------



## Forsaked

My BTR5 just arrived, now it's time to listen to it.


----------



## manukmanohar (Feb 4, 2020)

Just got the Fiio BTR5 a few days back. On balanced mode, it trumps the ES100 not just in terms of tonality, based on initial impressions. There was a step up in resolution as well. As of now, I found BTR5 > Hiby W5 > ES100 for SQ alone. (Hiby W5 from memory as i no longer have them). 

Those who are using it with clip mode, any idea what would be the ideal length for the cable. I was planning to get a short balanced cable. Would 65 cm do?


----------



## sinquito

toughnut said:


> Anyone compared this with Q5/Q5S? How does it fare with stock amp module? Thinking of getting BTR5 to replace my Q5+THX combo.



I have the Q5s, recently I've been using the BTR5. SQ sound pretty much the same to me, but I haven't done a proper comparison. If I have to choose one, probably would be the BTR5 as is more convenient, smaller, doesn't heat up like the Q5s, has a pretty useful screen, it's USB C instead of micro USB and it 1/3 of the price of the Q5s. The only two things that the Q5s seems to be better is the optical/coax input and line in/line out and that you can swap the amp modules. Maybe if you have a lot of 4.4 mm balanced cables (stock AM3E amp). I never quite liked the Q5s and end up buying a AM5 module because the stock module on the 3.5 mm is very feeble. The cost of the AM5 was the same as the BTR5 itself...


----------



## psikey (Feb 4, 2020)

Currawong said:


> My review is up.




Don't agree at all with your comments on balanced. Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts with mid to high end IEM's/headphones and in many cases have balanced cables. I had 2.5mm and 4.4mm for my SE846's already.

I also found the Balanced noticeably better than SE for sound stage, separation and generally more 3D and just nicer. I also find SE very good on this too so balanced isn't a must if you don't have the cables to still enjoy it. Slightly more battery life SE too.

I wouldn't have bought this without balanced.


----------



## psikey (Feb 4, 2020)

manukmanohar said:


> Just got the Fiio BTR5 a few days back. On balanced mode, it trumps the ES100 not just in terms of tonality, based on initial impressions. There was a step up in resolution as well. As of now, I found BTR5 > Hiby W5 > ES100 for SQ alone. (Hiby W5 from memory as i no longer have them).
> 
> Those who are using it with clip mode, any idea what would be the ideal length for the cable. I was planning to get a short balanced cable. Would 65 cm do?



Well I use SE846 with MMCX connectors and Fiio's own Short balanced is perfect length & quality. I had a longer 2.5mm balanced cable but wanted the neatness of the shorter one.
https://penonaudio.com/fiio-lc-2.5bs-3.5bs.html?search=FiiO LC-2.5BS

They show length at Length: 45cm






Mine


----------



## sinquito

Regarding balanced cables, I didn't have a pair of balanced cables until last week that I got my AKG N5005, out of curiosity, first I listen to them on the BTR5 with the included 2.5 mm, they sounded ok, then I switched to the remote 3.5 mm cable and to my surprise the difference in loudness was not all that much, this is not a formal comparison, but to me balanced only makes sense when more power is needed and most IEMs are very efficient  anyway. What I did find very useful is that the remote cable works with the BTR5, so you can play, pause, skip, go back and change volume using the remote, without taking out the Fiio out your pocket/pouch. I read about this feature on the Fiio webpage, but I forgot about it, but using it in real life is almost game changer, super convenient to say the least.


----------



## pilgrimbilly

psikey said:


> Don't agree at all with your comments on balanced. Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts with mid to high end IEM's/headphones and in many cases have balanced cables. I had 2.5mm and 4.4mm for my SE846's already.
> 
> I also found the Balanced noticeably better than SE for sound stage, separation and generally more 3D and just nicer. I also find SE very good on this too so balanced isn't a must if you don't have the cables to still enjoy it. Slightly more battery life SE too.
> 
> I wouldn't have bought this without balanced.



My thoughts exactly. Why the reviewer thinks balanced is a "minus" baffles me.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Hanesu said:


> Interesting. I also have both and think in AAC mode XDSD has slightly better resolution while sounding a bit softer and warmer. Overall to me it wins in SQ, though it is a close match and depending on ones preferences maybe. LDAC might change things though....haven`t used it yet because I only have Apple devices....


Update to my findings. The treble that I was missing was easily found by turning on 3d mode. The sparkle that APTX misses when compared to LDAC is put back by the 3d mode, and I can certainly say that the XDSD even in APTX definitely beats the BTR5, as good as it is for being super portable. I'm glad, seeing as I paid nearly 4x as much for the XDSD. So 3d mode has 2 purposes. 1) boost treble, 2) add stereo-like imaging to mono recordings.


----------



## Devodonaldson

kingtubby100 said:


> Hi All, (first post) I have purchased the BTR5 and really like it. BT when on the move and wired when at home.
> 
> My home setup is TIDAL/Spotify  > iphone 11 > CCK > BTR5 (3.5mm)> HD599 . The sound to my ears is very detailed, but as always I want to see if I can get better, from wired as it always shows 44.1 on the BTR5. Can this be increased? I noticed a comment on the youtube review which mentions installing the Onkyo app to get some hi-res love, are there any other options to try? Any tips appreciated.


If you want to see some different numbers you're going to have to listen to some higher quality audio files. Spotify maxes out at 320kbps 16/44.1 files. Tidal Music hi-res tier, Qobuz, or your own purchased hi-res music files are what you will need


----------



## joshnor713

psikey said:


> Don't agree at all with your comments on balanced. Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts with mid to high end IEM's/headphones and in many cases have balanced cables. I had 2.5mm and 4.4mm for my SE846's already.
> 
> I also found the Balanced noticeably better than SE for sound stage, separation and generally more 3D and just nicer. I also find SE very good on this too so balanced isn't a must if you don't have the cables to still enjoy it. Slightly more battery life SE too.
> 
> I wouldn't have bought this without balanced.



Balanced isn't needed generally for IEMs, which doesn't require much to drive. You can attain the same thing from a properly made unbalanced port. Typically when manufacturers put both, it's tuned to the balanced port and the unbalanced port is an afterthought. Not all the time but many of the times. Speaking of just about all IEMs, balanced is just a fad.


----------



## elNan (Feb 4, 2020)

sinquito said:


> ...but to me balanced only makes sense when more power is needed and most IEMs are very efficient anyway



That's correct my friend @sinpito, balanced cables only make sense when you need more output power and your amplifier isn't powerful enough over SE.


----------



## HipHopScribe

Personally I think the whole balanced phenomenon in 99% audiophile nonsense (balanced for highly efficient IEMs is just silly), but FiiO is trying to sell a product and buyers want balanced, so it's really a no-brainer for FiiO to use it as a selling point


----------



## manukmanohar (Feb 4, 2020)

HipHopScribe said:


> Personally I think the whole balanced phenomenon in 99% audiophile nonsense (balanced for highly efficient IEMs is just silly), but FiiO is trying to sell a product and buyers want balanced, so it's really a no-brainer for FiiO to use it as a selling point



And the sad thing is that Fiio and other companies in future, would continue to do much more than just increasing the power possible in balanced mode vs SE mode. (see dual DAC in balanced mode vs single DAC use in SE mode for BTR5). This makes people wrongly conclude that the reason why BTR5 sounds good in balanced mode, is because no matter the power requirement (i.e how little would be required for most IEMs), balanced will always be better. 

If for the same space, Fiio had opted to improve the SE circuitry alone, I'm sure they would be able to squeeze much much higher SQ out of the SE mode, without people having to buy extra balanced cables etc, especially for a device, which compared to other portable DACs is relatively on the lower side in both price and overall size. And that I think was the reviewer's point (not that balanced mode doesn't sound better currently than single ended mode).

Having said all that, I understand if people are using this for hard to drive headphones etc. for budget or convenience reasons, (in which case, probably having a balanced mode, might help get more power for the space required for the circuitry) , although in my opinion, it is probably not the best choice


----------



## joshnor713

I'm sure their competition (the popular ES100) is also a big factor in what drove them to design to a balanced port. Anyways, they (like many other companies) are doing it for all the reasons than what's practical.


----------



## psikey (Feb 4, 2020)

If balance makes no difference, how am I hearing things improved? Just down to using 2 DACs? Vs 1 DAC in SE ?

A Sony ZX507 also sounds noticeably improved with 4.4mm balanced vs SE.


----------



## sinquito

psikey said:


> If balance makes no difference, how am I hearing things improved? Just down to using 2 DACs? Vs 1 DAC in SE ?
> 
> A Sony ZX507 also sounds noticeably improved with 4.4mm balanced vs SE.



It's just your perception, you need two DACs in balanced because the ES9218P is a stereo DAC (meaning it has only two output channels), for balanced stereo you need four channels (two for right and two for left). That's why you need an additional DAC. Take a look at this short post by Benchmark:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

I don't want to derail the thread, but I think that you heard that the balanced output sounds "better" because it's louder and our brains tell us that music sounds better if it's louder. If you can, try to listen balanced vs single ended volume matched. Anyway, I won't try to convince, just sharing my opinion.


----------



## Currawong

psikey said:


> Don't agree at all with your comments on balanced. Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts with mid to high end IEM's/headphones and in many cases have balanced cables. I had 2.5mm and 4.4mm for my SE846's already.





pilgrimbilly said:


> My thoughts exactly. Why the reviewer thinks balanced is a "minus" baffles me.



I think I explained it pretty well in the video. I'm not sure that _"Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts"_. If anything, I reckon that the opposite is more likely to be true at this price point. What I found when doing reviews is that a lot of people were watching them ended up confused, because they weren't audio enthusiasts and didn't understand even simple things about a product -- knowledge we take for granted with our experience. It's easy to forget that we're part of a very tiny corner of the internet.



sinquito said:


> It's just your perception, you need two DACs in balanced because the ES9218P is a stereo DAC (meaning it has only two output channels), for balanced stereo you need four channels (two for right and two for left). That's why you need an additional DAC. Take a look at this short post by Benchmark:
> 
> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better
> 
> I don't want to derail the thread, but I think that you heard that the balanced output sounds "better" because it's louder and our brains tell us that music sounds better if it's louder. If you can, try to listen balanced vs single ended volume matched. Anyway, I won't try to convince, just sharing my opinion.



The balanced output has more power, so at least with full-sized headphones, the stronger amplification might make a noticeable difference. However the possibility of simply it being louder, resulting in a better perception of the music is very likely true as well. 

For those that haven't watched it, I said in my video was that I wish that FiiO had made instead a single-ended output that was as powerful as the balanced output is. It is quite possible to make a high-quality SE output. I believe the misunderstanding amongst enthusiasts is that balanced is better _in general_ rather than better _in an individual product_. For example, is the balanced output of the BTR5 going to best the SE output of the M11 Pro, just because it is a balanced connection? Obviously not.  That way, a consumer who just wants to buy the BTR5 to use with whatever regular headphones or IEMs they have, doesn't get the shock upon buying the product that they have to spend more money to get the most out of it.


----------



## SBranson

I’ve had my BTR5 for about a month and a half and occasionally it just shuts off.  Never while playing music but if I pause it and then go to unpause, nothing happens and the power is off and there is no response when trying to turn it on.  This lasts for a couple minutes the when I try to turn it back on it works but I get an unusual “turning on sound” rather than the usual sound.
Its only happened a couple times but it’s kind of disheartening and worrisome.


----------



## Forsaked (Feb 5, 2020)

*Setups:*

Huawei P30 Pro -> UAPP (Bit-perfect) -> Fiio BTR5 (LDAC) -> Shuoer Tape
PC -> Roon (WASAPI) -> Fiio BTR5 (USB-Cable) -> every IEM/Headphone i have

*My first impressions:

Good:*
- Sound Signature & Quality
- Build Quality
- native DSD decoding (ES100 & PowerDAC V2 could not)
- dead silent, no static when used with PC (ES100 & PowerDAC V2 could not)

*Bad:*
- App (Fiio Control) compared to the Radsone one, also missing features which are in the menu of the BTR5 itself (Gain, USB-Mode, etc.)
- Controls (one time pressing for each Volume Step, long press to change Track)
- Range (i would describe it as half of the ES100)
- no functional EQ on LDAC

I still have to figure out the right lowpass Filter for me.

*Question:*
Which lowpass Filter did you guys use?
If u use the BTR5 with a PC, did you install the Fiio USB-Driver?


----------



## SBranson

Forsaked said:


> *Setups:*
> 
> Huawei P30 Pro -> UAPP (Bit-perfect) -> Fiio BTR5 (LDAC) -> Shuoer Tape
> PC -> Roon (WASAPI) -> Fiio BTR5 (USB-Cable) -> every IEM/Headphone i have
> ...




Definitely agree with the great sound quality and the build..  Also..yes!, the controls!  I still screw up trying to turn up the volume and hold it down forgetting that that changes the track and my stupid mind can never remember if the up advances the track or rewinds...   I much prefer the double click to change tracks..
I have no issues with the range vs the ES100. (with iphone 8)..  I sure wish the iPhone could do LDAC though...
Can't remember which filter I use..  I'll have to check tomorrow but I think I just went back to the default setting after playing with them. Same with the EQ.. Played with it a bit but then just turned it off.


----------



## Forsaked

Yeah LDAC drops out faster since i pinned it to 990 kbps, if i would let it choose its own bitrate, it would have higher range.
But i compared it to the ES100 which i also pinnend to 990 kbps, which then has double the range of the BTR5.

EQ doesn't even work with LDAC on the BTR5, on the ES100 it work's, but i played with it and decided to not use it.
Even if i could get the mids more out on the Tape with an EQ, i let it be like it is.


----------



## zolom (Feb 5, 2020)

psikey said:


> Well I use SE846 with MMCX connectors and Fiio's own Short balanced is perfect length & quality. I had a longer 2.5mm balanced cable but wanted the neatness of the shorter one.
> https://penonaudio.com/fiio-lc-2.5bs-3.5bs.html?search=FiiO LC-2.5BS
> 
> They show length at Length: 45cm


Mine is* 60cm* which is ideal for either clipping to my shirt collar or stashed in my shirt pocket. 45cm would be too short for wearing the IEMs cable behind & over  my ears. 
Great with my FH7 and SE846.

Balance cable. Made by *ted allen <tedallen0220@gmail.com>*


----------



## psikey

sinquito said:


> It's just your perception, you need two DACs in balanced because the ES9218P is a stereo DAC (meaning it has only two output channels), for balanced stereo you need four channels (two for right and two for left). That's why you need an additional DAC. Take a look at this short post by Benchmark:
> 
> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better
> 
> I don't want to derail the thread, but I think that you heard that the balanced output sounds "better" because it's louder and our brains tell us that music sounds better if it's louder. If you can, try to listen balanced vs single ended volume matched. Anyway, I won't try to convince, just sharing my opinion.



I'm not so sure its just about Volume. I've been listening to audio long enough to know about volume differences.  Reduced crosstalk must also play a part then there are the electronics to syc. between outputs from each DAC/amp ? Also, the ZX300/ZX507 are improved on the balamced IMO.

Obviously cables are different and with low impedance IEM's such a my 8 Ohm SE846's I can tell the difference between cables (likely due to the differences in their impedance on an already low one, especially premium silver vs a standard copper cable).


----------



## psikey

Currawong said:


> I think I explained it pretty well in the video. I'm not sure that _"Most people who would buy this device are audio enthusiasts"_. If anything, I reckon that the opposite is more likely to be true at this price point. What I found when doing reviews is that a lot of people were watching them ended up confused, because they weren't audio enthusiasts and didn't understand even simple things about a product -- knowledge we take for granted with our experience. It's easy to forget that we're part of a very tiny corner of the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A BTR5 is a premium price for a BT dongle and price has never been an essential link with sound quality IMO. I've had £300 DAP's that sound just as good as £700 DAP's.

If people aren't audio enthusiasts they would buy a BTR3 or other cheap one, not the likes of BTR5/ES100.


----------



## psikey (Feb 5, 2020)

zolom said:


> Mine is* 60cm* which is ideal for either clipping to my shirt collar or stashed in my shirt pocket. 45cm would be too short for wearing the IEMs cable behind & over  my ears.
> Great with my FH7 and SE846.
> 
> Balance cable. Made by *ted allen <tedallen0220@gmail.com>*



Not too short, SE846 are worn behind & over the ears.

As you can see, still plenty of slack without being too much. 60cm would be at belly length


----------



## psikey

SBranson said:


> I’ve had my BTR5 for about a month and a half and occasionally it just shuts off.  Never while playing music but if I pause it and then go to unpause, nothing happens and the power is off and there is no response when trying to turn it on.  This lasts for a couple minutes the when I try to turn it back on it works but I get an unusual “turning on sound” rather than the usual sound.
> Its only happened a couple times but it’s kind of disheartening and worrisome.



I'm assuming you know there's an adjustable time out where it switches itself off if nothing is played for a while ?


----------



## psikey (Feb 5, 2020)

Forsaked said:


> *Setups:
> 
> 
> Bad:*
> ...



Your Bad points

- never used most of options on ES100 but if its your thing then the ES has more adjustable options
- Controls - This is a bonus for me. Just the one button to "blind" locate and rarely alter volume by more that 2 stops either way once my volume level set, but I do only use one set of IEM's with it.
- For me the BTR5 has the best range of any BT device I've had. Maybe a QC issue between BTR5's or source dependant (use mine with S10+ mostly)
- Never use EQ with any device I have but appreciate some may like to and they haven't ruled out getting it working with LDAC yet


Ref: If u use the BTR5 with a PC, did you install the Fiio USB-Driver?  That's a YES


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## Forsaked (Feb 5, 2020)

psikey said:


> Ref: If u use the BTR5 with a PC, did you install the Fiio USB-Driver?  That's a YES



Before installing the USB-Driver i could chose 16, 24 and 32 bit with sample rates up to 384Khz, after installing the USB-Driver the option for 24 bit is gone.
That's why i asked!


----------



## psikey

Forsaked said:


> Before installing the USB-Driver i could chose 16, 24 and 32 bit with sample rates up to 384Khz, after installing the USB-Driver the option for 24 bit is gone.
> That's why i asked!



Was covered further back I think. Once driver is installed the likes of Tidal/Spotify/AmazonHD play at tracks standard rate (And BTR5 screen shows it too).


----------



## Forsaked

Since i mostly use WASAPI (with Roon, TIDAL, etc.), it doesn't matter for Music playback, but the System Sound (also Games) are now resampelt to the respective value.


----------



## zolom (Feb 5, 2020)

listening to Tidal on my s laptop (FiiO driver installed) via USB audio & windows drivers (set as high quality as possible) and FH7 balance. 
Sounds *FANTASTIC*


----------



## goody

psikey said:


> Was covered further back I think. Once driver is installed the likes of Tidal/Spotify/AmazonHD play at tracks standard rate (And BTR5 screen shows it too).


psikey any idea where i can get a SE846 for a good price ?...


----------



## psikey (Feb 5, 2020)

goody said:


> psikey any idea where i can get a SE846 for a good price ?...


Suppose it depends what you consider a good price. Your in UK? PM me.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Feb 5, 2020)

psikey said:


> I'm not so sure its just about Volume. I've been listening to audio long enough to know about volume differences.  Reduced crosstalk must also play a part then there are the electronics to syc. between outputs from each DAC/amp ? Also, the ZX300/ZX507 are improved on the balamced IMO.
> 
> Obviously cables are different and with low impedance IEM's such a my 8 Ohm SE846's I can tell the difference between cables (likely due to the differences in their impedance on an already low one, especially premium silver vs a standard copper cable).



The output impedance of the balanced out is likely higher than the single-ended output as well, which could affect the frequency reponse of a low impedance IEM. This is usually considered a negative, and a good reason not to use balanced with IEMs as output impedance is often higher, but maybe you're getting reduced bass performance because of the impedance mismatch and you're perceiving that as wider soundstage


----------



## SBranson

psikey said:


> I'm assuming you know there's an adjustable time out where it switches itself off if nothing is played for a while ?



Yes I do.  It’s not the shut down so much as that it doesn’t seem to want to turn on again.  Anyway, I’m not alarmed yet just wondering if others have had something like this.   I’m sure this all works better with Android phones.  Th IOS app isn’t as friendly as when I had an LG phone and Apple kinda sucks with non Apple tech.


----------



## psikey (Feb 5, 2020)

zolom said:


> listening to Tidal on my s laptop (FiiO driver installed) via USB audio & windows drivers (set as high quality as possible) and FH7 balance.
> Sounds *FANTASTIC*



Sounds even better with the Fiio Driver.

If you just set as high as possible your over sampling the track which can sound worse. Ideally you want to be bit-perfect so install the Fiio software   FiiO_USB_DAC_Driver-V4.47.0

https://fiio.com/Driver_Download


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 5, 2020)

USB 2 coming out of the little AP80 and controlled via phone with hiby link. Sounds so good when used as a usb dac/amp especially with good files.

I have my laptop right there I just wanted to see if it would feed DSD from the little AP80.

Sounds good with BT also but this is on another level. Can't believe this tiny setup is giving me chills. Sounds really 'big'


----------



## SBranson

Do most people use the FiiO app for music?  The app sounds a fair bit better on an iPhone than the native iTunes based app.  Not quite as convenient for me as the album icons are in list form only and kind of small for my old eyes but a small price to pay for better audio quality


----------



## abitdeef

SBranson said:


> Do most people use the FiiO app for music?  The app sounds a fair bit better on an iPhone than the native iTunes based app.  Not quite as convenient for me as the album icons are in list form only and kind of small for my old eyes but a small price to pay for better audio quality



I use the stand alone control app and either neutron or hiby app. Fiio is good too, I think I'm just used to the other ones more. I don't have it atm, but uapp is really good too, especially if you want bit perfect from your phone. Although output seems to be bit perfect for all the other apps, and I like the peq of neutron.


----------



## psikey

abitdeef said:


> I use the stand alone control app and either neutron or hiby app. Fiio is good too, I think I'm just used to the other ones more. I don't have it atm, but uapp is really good too, especially if you want bit perfect from your phone. Although output seems to be bit perfect for all the other apps, and I like the peq of neutron.



So question is, would you have bought a Sony A105 if you'd known how good BTR5 was? 

Its just amazing for the price IMO. Have some Noble K10U coming Friday to try with it. First time I'm trying anything other than my SE846's.


----------



## caprimulgus

Re: This talk of balanced vs SE on IEMs - has anyone tried BLON BL-03 with the BTR5 (balanced and SE)? Would they benefit from balanced?

I've read that the Blons benefit from more power, so I assumed it would be worth putting a balanced cable on my Blons. (The hard part has been finding a balanced cable for the Blons, because they have a unique 2-pin connector, that is not exactly the same as anything else!)


----------



## SBranson (Feb 5, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> I use the stand alone control app and either neutron or hiby app. Fiio is good too, I think I'm just used to the other ones more. I don't have it atm, but uapp is really good too, especially if you want bit perfect from your phone. Although output seems to be bit perfect for all the other apps, and I like the peq of neutron.



Thanks...  I used to have an Android with app and a mojo but was going to reply that being on an iPhone I can’t get these apps..  (as this was the case) Well I looked and sure enough you can get the hiby app which has the nice big album art and seems to sound about as good as the FiiO app.

btw...  I think the BTR5 sounds fantastic.  At first I wasn’t sure so pared to the ES100 as the “thinner” sound of the ES100 seemed more accurate but after trying LDAC with my WM1A the BTR5 is clearly better to my ears.  Even now on an iPhone the depth and spacious sound of the BTR5 is a real treat at work.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 5, 2020)

psikey said:


> So question is, would you have bought a Sony A105 if you'd known how good BTR5 was?
> 
> Its just amazing for the price IMO. Have some Noble K10U coming Friday to try with it. First time I'm trying anything other than my SE846's.



No I wouldn't have, I've got android with my phone so I'm covered there. I've got a nice powerful output with the balanced out and I've got wireless that sounds brilliant ( the best I've heard) and I can use it as a dac/amp with my pc if I want to get really high end sound.

As much as I like Sony and their sound signature, this little thing fits the bill. I personally think it sounds better than the m11 on balanced. I'm happy with the sound this thing puts out, I had the ES100 which was really nice and has a great dsp eq suite, but the flat sound wasn't as good as this especially out of balanced. I was always using eq with the ES100. But I don't need it here with the fiio, it's just got a higher level 'base' sound it reminds me of much more expensive gear soundwise.

Lol short answer after rambling, no.


----------



## SBranson

That was the first thing I noticed coming from the ES100, that the BTR5 is a much more dynamic sound with more bass.  Overall more introducing a V shape but well rounded.


----------



## ballog (Feb 5, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> USB 2 coming out of the little AP80 and controlled via phone with hiby link. Sounds so good when used as a usb dac/amp especially with good files.
> 
> I have my laptop right there I just wanted to see if it would feed DSD from the little AP80.
> 
> Sounds good with BT also but this is on another level. Can't believe this tiny setup is giving me chills. Sounds really 'big'



@abitdeef would a USB-C to USB-C cable also work in this setup? I would look simpler and more elegant.


----------



## MariusAB

Hello, Btr5 users, received my btr 5 and very happy with the sound, but has anyone here used Btr5 from their android phone as a usb dac?. I can't make it work, don't know why. Oneplus 6 set to otg mode, connected to the usb c cable with the other end for USB connection and this end connected to oneplus usb to usb c cable.  Is it special usb otg cable needed? From my computer usb it works as a dac without problems. But with oneplus output it isnt't working.
This goes from Oneplus 6 

 And then connected to this to btr 5



Has anyone have suggestions what should i try?


----------



## 435279

MariusAB said:


> Has anyone have suggestions what should i try?



Try USB Audio Player Pro or Neutron Music Player or PowerAmp Music Player or Hiby Music Player. One of those should work, if none of them do then you have a cabling issue.


----------



## majo123

MariusAB said:


> Hello, Btr5 users, received my btr 5 and very happy with the sound, but has anyone here used Btr5 from their android phone as a usb dac?. I can't make it work, don't know why. Oneplus 6 set to otg mode, connected to the usb c cable with the other end for USB connection and this end connected to oneplus usb to usb c cable.  Is it special usb otg cable needed? From my computer usb it works as a dac without problems. But with oneplus output it isnt't working.
> This goes from Oneplus 6  And then connected to this to btr 5
> 
> Has anyone have suggestions what should i try?


 works fine with my galaxy s10 maybe it's your cable compatibility with your phone,  I use one of these and seem to be widely on Amazon of not in the uk..   https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasi...=1580983680&sprefix=usbc+to+usbc+short&sr=8-3


----------



## MariusAB

majo123 said:


> works fine with my galaxy s10 maybe it's your cable compatibility with your phone,  I use one of these and seem to be widely on Amazon of not in the uk..   https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasi...=1580983680&sprefix=usbc+to+usbc+short&sr=8-3



Thanks, i don't know, but possibly it's a cable problem. Not BTR or telephone, as these seems to operate well. If it's only the cable then will look for solution.
So you only plug this cable, set otg  mode in your phone and it becomes visible to your mobile as a btr dac right?


----------



## grandros

MariusAB said:


> Thanks, i don't know, but possibly it's a cable problem. Not BTR or telephone, as these seems to operate well. If it's only the cable then will look for solution.
> So you only plug this cable, set otg  mode in your phone and it becomes visible to your mobile as a btr dac right?


And set CHARGE to OFF from the BTR5 menu....


----------



## psikey (Feb 6, 2020)

MariusAB said:


> Thanks, i don't know, but possibly it's a cable problem. Not BTR or telephone, as these seems to operate well. If it's only the cable then will look for solution.
> So you only plug this cable, set otg  mode in your phone and it becomes visible to your mobile as a btr dac right?



I used a USB C to micro USB cable with an adapter to get usb c on both sides and that worked fine with my S10+


----------



## MariusAB

psikey said:


> Needs to be a OTG cable doesn't it?



yeah i understand it should be, but i believed my cables are otg, well one for sure that with usb socket on the end for connecting some usb drives or dacs, but the second perhaps  only for chargin, not otg.


----------



## abitdeef

ballog said:


> @abitdeef would a USB-C to USB-C cable also work in this setup? I would look simpler and more elegant.



Yep if it was an OTG data cable. Didn't find too many C to C OTG cables. Well like I didn't find any, so hence the adapter. I'm thinking fiio will put one out soon, since everything is going C.

I wish they would have put a 4.4 Pentagon jack in the btr5, but I'm sure there's just not enough room


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 6, 2020)

MariusAB said:


> yeah i understand it should be, but i believed my cables are otg, well one for sure that with usb socket on the end for connecting some usb drives or dacs, but the second perhaps  only for chargin, not otg.



Maybe try turning charging off on the btr5? But mine works fine from my phone and daps with both version 1 and version 2.

I used a OTG C to micro with an otg adapter. I actually just used the fiio one included as I could find any of my old USB C to micro cables.


----------



## abitdeef

Btw that cable is also available on Amazon US, so if you've got prime you can save on shipping. Just ordered it.


----------



## psikey (Feb 6, 2020)

I just used one of the Samsung adaptors for now with a cable I already had


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> I just used one of the Samsung adaptors for now with an cable I already had



Yep I should have had a couple of those cables lying around. Digs coukd had chewed them up idk.


----------



## progdvd

theveterans said:


> BTR5 + CA Vega = awesomesauce!




LOL Hi-res audio sticker on iPhone. 
Anyone saw Oluv's BGVP DMG review? Hahaha


----------



## cpaulik

abitdeef said:


> Yep if it was an OTG data cable. Didn't find too many C to C OTG cables. Well like I didn't find any, so hence the adapter. I'm thinking fiio will put one out soon, since everything is going C.
> 
> I wish they would have put a 4.4 Pentagon jack in the btr5, but I'm sure there's just not enough room


As far as I know there is no such thing as an OTG cable with USB C. They should all work if they are built to spec.


----------



## abitdeef

cpaulik said:


> As far as I know there is no such thing as an OTG cable with USB C. They should all work if they are built to spec.



Well regardless, that Amazon one (which I missed) when I was looking before is the only C to C cable I found.
 What I'd really like is Fiio to build something that sounds like btr5 that's small like m6. That would be amazing, because this thing sounds better than any fiio I've listened to with the exception of the Q5s with thx module. Imo.

I like smaller daps and an all rounder like that would be awesome. The Sony a105 is close but the power on this would be better, and have 4.4 and better battery life. Ha ha


----------



## progdvd

HipHopScribe said:


> Personally I think the whole balanced phenomenon in 99% audiophile nonsense (balanced for highly efficient IEMs is just silly), but FiiO is trying to sell a product and buyers want balanced, so it's really a no-brainer for FiiO to use it as a selling point



+1
Guilty. I bought expensive balanced cable for my S8F thinking it will give me some audible upgrade. SE is just fine at least to my aged ears. But I still have a nice cable. Again I wanted to buy BTR5 as a upgrade to ES100. As I am really satisfied with ES100 performance I actually don't see a reason to do so after reading some comments here. I might get 5K we'll see...


----------



## psikey

progdvd said:


> +1
> Guilty. I bought expensive balanced cable for my S8F thinking it will give me some audible upgrade. SE is just fine at least to my aged ears. But I still have a nice cable. Again I wanted to buy BTR5 as a upgrade to ES100. As I am really satisfied with ES100 performance I actually don't see a reason to do so after reading some comments here. I might get 5K we'll see...



Based on some stating balanced not needed or no better with IEM's I set one of my SE846's on balanced and other on SE with comparable quality cables and did some A-B'ing at work today. No mater what the logic/theory my ears are finding the balanced more pleasing/enjoyable.

Not saying SE is bad but something is better. Sounds/feels more 3D/alive/clear. I even swapped around and over with my eyes closed so I didn't know which I was using then checked when I thought is was the balanced and picked it out every time, so I'll go on my ears on this.


----------



## progdvd (Feb 6, 2020)

psikey said:


> Based on some stating balanced not needed or no better with IEM's I set one of my SE846's on balanced and other on SE with comparable quality cables and did some A-B'ing at work today. No mater what the logic/theory my ears are finding the balanced more pleasing/enjoyable.
> 
> Not saying SE is bad but something is better. Sounds/feels more 3D/alive/clear. I even swapped around and over with my eyes closed so I didn't know which I was using then checked when I thought is was the balanced and picked it out every time, so I'll go on my ears on this.



Maybe SE846 scales up better IDK.
S8F are meant to be driven of a low powered sources as they are very efficient and sensitive. Never AB directly and honestly I don't think I'd pass the blind test.... Now I'm curious, I'm gonna test it...

EDIT
OK just a quick 5 min test. 
Test song: Seventh Wonder - Tiara's Song acoustic version
Codec: FLAC, via 990k ldac
Gear: Mate 9, ES100, Fearless S8F, with electro acousti 99% silver + 7n OCC Copper Litz in balanced and same SE adapter. 

It was a quick 5 min test but honestly i got nothing, both SE and bal. sound the same to me.


----------



## psikey (Feb 6, 2020)

progdvd said:


> Maybe SE846 scales up better IDK.
> S8F are meant to be driven of a low powered sources as they are very efficient and sensitive. Never AB directly and honestly I don't think I'd pass the blind test.... Now I'm curious, I'm gonna test it...



Balanced cable was 8 Core silver coat copper and SE silver coat cable but balanced was a the short 45cm while the SE was a normal long cable but can't see that having much if any effect.


----------



## abitdeef

Well whatever you think of balanced, fiio made the balanced out of this better than the 3.5 out. The difference is readily apparent especially with revealing iems. Besides more power it's got better seperation between notes and the dynamics are better.

This was also the case with the Sony zx300, they just put more work onto the balanced out. Now most I don't notice much difference from 3.5 to balanced except more power.

And also to my ears this sounds quite a bit better than ES100, I'm talking about no EQ-ing and balanced outs. But yes they could just as easily make a 3.5 jack with more power, although 2 grounds does make the circuit more efficient.


----------



## psikey (Feb 6, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Well whatever you think of balanced, fiio made the balanced out of this better than the 3.5 out. The difference is readily apparent especially with revealing iems. Besides more power it's got better seperation between notes and the dynamics are better.
> 
> This was also the case with the Sony zx300, they just put more work onto the balanced out. Now most I don't notice much difference from 3.5 to balanced except more power.
> 
> And also to my ears this sounds quite a bit better than ES100, I'm talking about no EQ-ing and balanced outs. But yes they could just as easily make a 3.5 jack with more power, although 2 grounds does make the circuit more efficient.



With the SE846's it could just be the impedance thing with them being only 8 Ohm. I have some Noble K10U (think 32 ohm) arriving tomorrow so will try them but need to get a balanced cable for them before I can.

Agree, I also noticed with ZX300 and ZX507 but not with previous Fiio X5III or M11 or R5. The ES100 did sound better balanced for me too.

Who knows, we all hear things differently but 2 vs one DAC and variation in cross-talk should have some impact IMO. Command of amp power may also play a part as is the case with headphones.


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> With the SE846's it could just be the impedance thing with them being only 8 Ohm. I have some Noble K10U (think 32 ohm) arriving tomorrow so will try them but need to get a balanced cable for them before I can.
> 
> Agree, I also noticed with ZX300 and ZX507 but not with previous Fiio X5III or M11 or R5. The ES100 did sound better balanced for me too.
> 
> Who knows, we all hear things differently but 2 vs one DAC and variation in cross-talk should have some impact IMO. Command of amp power may also play a part as is the case with headphones.



Maybe mine are 16ohm, but I think fiio might have stuck some extra tantalum or ceramic caps or high quality film resisters in the balanced output path. My guess.


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 6, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Maybe mine are 16ohm, but I think fiio might have stuck some extra tantalum or ceramic caps or high quality film resisters in the balanced output path. My guess.



Any caps (especially a small, SMD caps) on the output path will cause a very noticeable roll-off in the bass region. BTR5's SE and balanced output FR curve are both flat enough to indicate that there is no output caps.


----------



## abitdeef

ClieOS said:


> Any caps (especially a small, SMD caps) on the output path will cause a very noticeable roll-off in the bass region. BTR5's SE and balanced output FR curve are both flat enough to indicate that there is no output caps.



That's good to hear, maybe it's just the extra headroom that's making it sound a bit more livelier and spacious on balanced to me. The se out just doesn't sound as good to me.


----------



## Hanesu

SBranson said:


> That was the first thing I noticed coming from the ES100, that the BTR5 is a much more dynamic sound with more bass.  Overall more introducing a V shape but well rounded.



I 100% agree that BTR5 is more dynamic, but after comparing them for weeks side by side, I am pretty sure it‘s the mids that makes them sound different. ES100 has more recessed mids and because of that sounds thinner. I think actually ES100 is more v-shaped while BTR5 slightly w-shaped! Mids are more pushed to the front with the Fiio.


----------



## SBranson

Hanesu said:


> I 100% agree that BTR5 is more dynamic, but after comparing them for weeks side by side, I am pretty sure it‘s the mids that makes them sound different. ES100 has more recessed mids and because of that sounds thinner. I think actually ES100 is more v-shaped while BTR5 slightly w-shaped! Mids are more pushed to the front with the Fiio.



That very well could be..  I haven't compared in a long time except when the battery ran out on my BTR5 so I swapped in the ES100 and couldn't believe how much thinner and less engaging the overall sound was.  I didn't really analyze it much beyond the fact that when I first got the BTR5 I thought of selling it as at the time I found it a bit too dynamic.  Since I discovered that the stock iPhone music app kinda sucks in comparison with the Hiby or Fiio app for sound quality, I really have grown to like this.

One weird hiccup I'm encountering..  if I pause it for too long, say 10 mins..  the unpause on the BTR5 unit won't work.  I have to press play on my iphone.  I haven't really explored it much but it's kind of strange.  Admittedly I don't read manuals or anything so maybe it's a normal sleep mode or something..  It's not the power off thing as that's set for 30 mins and the connection still shows as active on my phone.. and sound comes out when I press play on the phone.


----------



## Forsaked

SBranson said:


> That very well could be..  I haven't compared in a long time except when the battery ran out on my BTR5 so I swapped in the ES100 and couldn't believe how much thinner and less engaging the overall sound was.  I didn't really analyze it much beyond the fact that when I first got the BTR5 I thought of selling it as at the time I found it a bit too dynamic.  Since I discovered that the stock iPhone music app kinda sucks in comparison with the Hiby or Fiio app for sound quality, I really have grown to like this.



Same for me, first it was different and "overloaded" compared to the ES100 and now i really like it.
The Shuoer Tape really shine with the BTR5 compared to the ES100, without even using the EQ (which don't work on LDAC)!


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 7, 2020)

Forsaked said:


> Same for me, first it was different and "overloaded" compared to the ES100 and now i really like it.
> The Shuoer Tape really shine with the BTR5 compared to the ES100, without even using the EQ (which don't work on LDAC)!



The fiio eq kind of sucks anyways. Hiby eq works on ldac as does mseb. Neutron peq works on ldac too and is much better than fiio eq. Both don't cut the sound, they're like Sony and Cowon's eq.

So if you want to eq ldac I'd use one of those 2 apps. You can still use fiio control app with either. Hiby is more user friendly and neutron is more involved.


----------



## Forsaked

abitdeef said:


> The fiio eq kind of sucks anyways. Hiby eq works on ldac as does mseb. Neutron peq works on ldac too and is much better than fiio eq. Both don't cut the sound, they're like Sony and Cowon's eq.
> 
> So if you want to eq ldac I'd use one of those 2 apps. You can still use fiio control app with either. Hiby is more user friendly and neutron is more involved.



I use UAPP which also has a PEQ if i disable bitperfect mode.
But since i like the sound signature of my Tapes with teh BTR5, i don't need to EQ anyting.


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 7, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> The fiio eq kind of sucks anyways. Hiby eq works on ldac as does mseb. Neutron peq works on ldac too and is much better than fiio eq. Both don't cut the sound, they're like Sony and Cowon's eq.
> 
> So if you want to eq ldac I'd use one of those 2 apps. You can still use fiio control app with either. Hiby is more user friendly and neutron is more involved.




Ok, this is a little over simplified and worth a bit of explanation:

When you are referring to Hiby EQ, I assume you means the EQ in HibiMusic app? That EQ system is software based and so it applied to the music before it was sent to BTR5 via LDAC. Same is true for Neutron. In fact FiiO Music app also works the same way and will work just fine when used with BTR5. The EQ system built into the BTR5 is however very different as it is hardware based, relying on the BT chip's internal DSP system to do the job. It is different in the way that music is sent over Bluetooth (SBC, AAC, atpX, etc) unchanged, then BTR5's internal DSP will apply the EQ. In contrast, HibiMusic / FiiO Music / Neutron apply the EQ onto the music before it was sent over via BT, so BTR5's DSP doesn't actually need to do anything extra. Now I explained it before in this thread, the reason for BTR5 EQ not working on LDAC has to do with Qualcomm firmware limitation on the DSP system. As far as I know, only ES100 is capable of applying EQ on LDAC because they use a highly customized firmware. FiiO is working on a customized firmware as well, though we have not idea if it will truly come or not. Technically HibyMusic and Neutron doesn't EQ on the LDAC itself, since EQ is applied before the music is sent over BT. I have tested EQ on Hiby W3 and W5, and neither has working EQ over LDAC, likely because of the same firmware limitation faced by FiiO.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 7, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Ok, this is a little over simplified and worth a bit of explanation:
> 
> When you are referring to Hiby EQ, I assume you means the EQ in HibiMusic app? That EQ system is software based and so it applied to the music before it was sent to BTR5 via LDAC. Same is true for Neutron. In fact FiiO Music app also works the same way and will work just fine when used with BTR5. The EQ system built into the BTR5 is however very different as it is hardware based, relying on the BT chip's internal DSP system to do the job. It is different in the way that music is sent over Bluetooth (SBC, AAC, atpX, etc) unchanged, then BTR5's internal DSP will apply the EQ. In contrast, HibiMusic / FiiO Music / Neutron apply the EQ onto the music before it was sent over via BT, so BTR5's DSP doesn't actually need to do anything extra. Now I explained it before in this thread, the reason for BTR5 EQ not working on LDAC has to do with Qualcomm firmware limitation on the DSP system. As far as I know, only ES100 is capable of applying EQ on LDAC because they use a highly customized firmware. FiiO is working on a customized firmware as well, though we have not idea if it will truly come or not. Technically HibyMusic and Neutron doesn't EQ on the LDAC itself, since EQ is applied before the music is sent over BT. I have tested EQ on Hiby W3 and W5, and neither has working EQ over LDAC, likely because of the same firmware limitation faced by FiiO.



Yes understood that. But it's still applies eq to your ldac stuff in the end- or sends an eq"d signal over, and most eq is software based anyways. I only posted it because people acted like there was no way to apply eq to ldac, which isn't true.
And I don't personally like the fact that the fiio eq neuters the volume- I know it's for clipping I just prefer more of the Sony, Cowon implementation.

I haven't even been using eq, I'm happy just like the previous poster with the base sound. I felt like I needed eq on the es100 but not on the btr5. Yes the software suite was better on the ES100 for sure but with the overall sound quality of the fiio it evens out imo.


----------



## ClieOS

abitdeef said:


> ...And I don't personally like the fact that the fiio eq neuters the volume- I know it's for clipping I just prefer more of the Sony, Cowon implementation.



I don't own any Cowon but I'll venture a guess that it is similar to that of Sony - that is, the DAP is internally limited to be lower in volume (and thus lowerin dynamic range) at first all the time, then they allow the EQ to set freely to max. While it might make EQ looks like it doesn't clip, the actual fact is that you can't get the max output even when you are not using EQ. FiiO does the opposite, only limits the dynamic range / volume when EQ is engaged but allows the user to get the full volume when no EQ is used. To me, it is just the two faces of the same coin, neither is a better solution than the other.


----------



## psikey (Feb 7, 2020)

Just tried BTR5 with my new Noble K10U with SE cable. Bloody hell    Talk about resolving and wide sound stage!

Need to get a balanced cable but already sound awesome via SE.






Be hard decision to choose between these and my SE846's each day !


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> Just tried BTR5 with my new Noble K10U with SE cable. Bloody hell    Talk about resolving and wide sound stage!
> 
> Need to get a balanced cable but already sound awesome via SE.
> 
> ...



How's the comfort compared to the Shures. They look a bit bulky. I'm sure that they will sound amazing balanced.


----------



## psikey

abitdeef said:


> How's the comfort compared to the Shures. They look a bit bulky. I'm sure that they will sound amazing balanced.


Shures are better fit but these also fine for me. Shures more discreet while out & about.


----------



## SBranson

psikey said:


> Just tried BTR5 with my new Noble K10U with SE cable. Bloody hell    Talk about resolving and wide sound stage!
> 
> Need to get a balanced cable but already sound awesome via SE.
> 
> ...



Very nice!  I had that very set up and kinda regret selling the K10s.


----------



## psikey

SBranson said:


> Very nice!  I had that very set up and kinda regret selling the K10s.



Managed to pick them up for £500.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 9, 2020)

The btr5 is sold out on Amazon again. And the sellers that have it on ebay are inflating the price  Kind of reminds me (to a lesser extent) of when Nintedo rolls out a new system.

B&H photo has it but it's 150.00. I paid 100 dollars after coupon. I think the price was 119.00. I guess Fiio doesn't set prices, it's all by supply and demand.


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> Managed to pick them up for £500.



That's a good deal.


----------



## SBranson

abitdeef said:


> The btr5 is sold out on Amazon again. And the sellers that have it on ebay are inflating the price  Kind of reminds me (to a lesser extent) of when Nintedo rolls out a new system.
> 
> B&H photo has it but it's 150.00. I paid 100 dollars after coupon. I think the price was 119.00. I guess Fiio doesn't set prices, it's all by supply and demand.



They seem to be in stock at HeadphoneBar up here in Canada if anyone is looking.  I’ve bought from them several times and they are great.
https://headphonebar.com/products/fiio-btr5


----------



## Hamlap

Thinking of getting this one, to use on my S9 with BL-03 or/and Blon B8's. But: I can get the BTR3 second hand for about €35. Is the BTR5 worth the extra money? Will be using Tidal MQA for the most of it...


----------



## abitdeef

Hamlap said:


> Thinking of getting this one, to use on my S9 with BL-03 or/and Blon B8's. But: I can get the BTR3 second hand for about €35. Is the BTR5 worth the extra money? Will be using Tidal MQA for the most of it...



Yes, BT reception is better and the sound is seriously good. Plus if you want to run bigger cans you can with balanced. I have blon 3 and it's an awesome pairing. It sounds like a top end dap out of balanced. 3.5 is good too, but balanced sounds really nice. 

Bigger stage, tons of detail and pin point layring/positioning like a better dap. It scales good with better equipment too and very low noise.


----------



## Hamlap

abitdeef said:


> Yes, BT reception is better and the sound is seriously good. Plus if you want to run bigger cans you can with balanced. I have blon 3 and it's an awesome pairing. It sounds like a top end dap out of balanced. 3.5 is good too, but balanced sounds really nice.
> 
> Bigger stage, tons of detail and pin point layring/positioning like a better dap. It scales good with better equipment too and very low noise.


Alright! Thanks! Also: which balanced cable do you use for the Blons?


----------



## psikey

Hamlap said:


> Thinking of getting this one, to use on my S9 with BL-03 or/and Blon B8's. But: I can get the BTR3 second hand for about €35. Is the BTR5 worth the extra money? Will be using Tidal MQA for the most of it...


BTR3 nothing special and I had BT issues.
BTR5 on par with a great DAC/AMP and best BT.


----------



## abitdeef

Hamlap said:


> Alright! Thanks! Also: which balanced cable do you use for the Blons?



I had the tripowin balanced before I got the blons. Pretty decent cable for the $ imo.


----------



## psikey

abitdeef said:


> I had the tripowin balanced before I got the blons. Pretty decent cable for the $ imo.


Have a cheapo £15 balanced coming tomorrow for the K10U.


----------



## Hamlap

abitdeef said:


> I had the tripowin balanced before I got the blons. Pretty decent cable for the $ imo.





psikey said:


> Have a cheapo £15 balanced coming tomorrow for the K10U.


Got any links for those guys ?


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> Have a cheapo £15 balanced coming tomorrow for the K10U.



I think most cables are decent in conductivity and that's what's important. Even the cheapest I've tried had 0 resistance on a multimeter. So I think what you get from better cables is mostly better build quality and flexibility from better coverings and such. 

They should sound fine


----------



## psikey (Feb 9, 2020)

Hamlap said:


> Got any links for those guys ?


Might be crap (Amazon UK)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/0-78mm-Silver-Upgrade-Earphone-Replacement-2pin-jack/dp/B07KG1L4GD

I nearly went £105 for the Fiio solid silver (LS-2.5D) but decided I've spent enough this month.


----------



## abitdeef

Link from linsoul 

https://www.linsoul.com/collections/accesories/products/tripowin-c8?variant=28356104716388


----------



## Dentex

Silly question... Can I use the BTR5 as a USB dongle with a Xiaomi mi MIX2s? if so, what USB C/ USB C cable do you recommend?


----------



## SBranson (Feb 9, 2020)

psikey said:


> BTR3 nothing special and I had BT issues.
> BTR5 on par with a great DAC/AMP and best BT.



I was going to reply that unless you want balanced then the BTR3 would be fine but then you reminded me that I switched to the ES100 because I had endless issues with losing the BT signal and sometimes with the phone in my pocket even.  Granted it turned out that it was partly the reputably bad BT in my LGv30 but I switched to a BTR1 for a short time before the ES100 (to get balanced) and even the BTR1 had a better BT connection than the BTR3.  The BTR5 has had no issues with connection and I think it’s even better than the ES100.


----------



## Knightsfan11

Has anyone used this in there car, by plugging into the AUX cable of there sound system? Currently have a parrot system, which unfortunately doesn't have any of the top BT codecs, such as AAC.


----------



## caprimulgus

abitdeef said:


> I have blon 3 and it's an awesome pairing. It sounds like a top end dap out of balanced. 3.5 is good too, but balanced sounds really nice.



So you'd say it's definitely worth the upgrade to go balanced for the Blon?


----------



## Forsaked

psikey said:


> Was covered further back I think. Once driver is installed the likes of Tidal/Spotify/AmazonHD play at tracks standard rate (And BTR5 screen shows it too).



I found out what my problem was.
The BTR5 was connected while installing the driver, which lead to not installing the driver correctly.
Now it is recognized as Q-Series and offers me 24 bit again and also an AISO driver.


----------



## Hamlap

Thanks both, for the cable suggestions for the BL-03. I'll check them both!


----------



## abitdeef

caprimulgus said:


> So you'd say it's definitely worth the upgrade to go balanced for the Blon?



For the small price of the cable I'd say yes, the balanced has a bigger stage and everything is tighter. Of course the blon doesn't need the extra power, but even at the same relative volume you get more headroom. It's not night and day, but it's noticable.


----------



## Hamlap

abitdeef said:


> For the small price of the cable I'd say yes, the balanced has a bigger stage and everything is tighter. Of course the blon doesn't need the extra power, but even at the same relative volume you get more headroom. It's not night and day, but it's noticable.


Alright! It appears that I already have a balanced cable, haha! Just a 3.5mm one... Any good adapters?


----------



## 435279

Hamlap said:


> Alright! It appears that I already have a balanced cable, haha! Just a 3.5mm one... Any good adapters?



I have this one, well the opposite version of it anyway. It works well for my usage:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PDR4XSX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## Hamlap

SteveOliver said:


> I have this one, well the opposite version of it anyway. It works well for my usage:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PDR4XSX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1


Thanks! Could also just order an extra cable with 2.5mm for that price !


----------



## 435279

Hamlap said:


> Thanks! Could also just order an extra cable with 2.5mm for that price !



True, but then you have to keep swapping the delicate MMCX connectors, assuming that is what you have at the listening end.


----------



## Hamlap

SteveOliver said:


> True, but then you have to keep swapping the delicate MMCX connectors, assuming that is what you have at the listening end.


2 pin. But I agree...


----------



## abitdeef

Or you could use 2.5 to 3.5 and just leave the balanced cable on. And if you need 4.4 there's 2.5 to 4.4


----------



## Hamlap

Yeah, using 2.5mm Balanced would be the way to go on the BTR5 I guess. Do these adapters influence the sound quality?


----------



## psikey (Feb 10, 2020)

psikey said:


> Might be crap (Amazon UK)
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/0-78mm-Silver-Upgrade-Earphone-Replacement-2pin-jack/dp/B07KG1L4GD
> 
> I nearly went £105 for the Fiio solid silver (LS-2.5D) but decided I've spent enough this month.



Replying to my own post, 0.78mm 2pin 2.5mm balanced cheapo cable arrived today and as with my SE846's the K10U sound better balanced vs SE.

The cable is amazing for £15 but I had to use a hairdryer to warm up the soft memory sleeve to bend to a tighter angle as per the included Noble SE cable. Doesn't have an adjuster sleeve to tighten up to chin but can easily fit one over the ends if I need it.

This cable is also good for the K10U as it has the small rectangular pieces around the pins so fits into same recess as the original cable. Many of the 2pin's have a round connector.





I also already have the Fiio 2.5mm to 3.5mm adaptor so can leave the balanced on if I need to go SE.





With both the SE846 & K10U the music sounds more alive/3D/holographic/pristine/distinct via balanced out of the BTR5. Just more organic/musical.  Those words come to mind anyway for me.

Said it before, the BTR5 is bloody amazing over balanced either as a wired DAC or via LDAC BT.

Also the BTR5/K10U combo does sound more high-end than the BTR5/SE846 (as it should really).

The sound signature between the K10U & SE846 are different and I will be keeping both. The SE846 is still best for fit and looks better in ear when out & about and are a warmer sound compared to the brighter K10U.

Never thought I'd like anything more than my SE846's but these K10U might just be my new favourite for SQ.


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> Replying to my own post, 0.78mm 2pin 2.5mm balanced cheapo cable arrived today and as with my SE846's the K10U sound better balanced vs SE.
> 
> The cable is amazing for £15 but I had to use a hairdryer to warm up the soft memory sleeve to bend to a tighter angle as per the included Noble SE cable. Doesn't have an adjuster sleeve to tighten up to chin but can easily fit one over the ends if I need it.
> 
> ...



Ha ha my 2.5 to 3.5 adapter is a Fiio also.


----------



## abitdeef

Hamlap said:


> Yeah, using 2.5mm Balanced would be the way to go on the BTR5 I guess. Do these adapters influence the sound quality?



Honestly I notice no sonic  difference with the adapters.


----------



## psikey

abitdeef said:


> Honestly I notice no sonic  difference with the adapters.



I have a 2.5mm to 4.4mm Balanced which I've used with ZX300/ZX507 and no differnce in balanced SQ. Obviously if going 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm SE you will notice the difference with the BTR5 anyway.


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> I have a 2.5mm to 4.4mm Balanced which I've used with ZX300/ZX507 and no differnce in balanced SQ. Obviously if going 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm SE you will notice the difference with the BTR5 anyway.



Yep I got the 3.5 adapter to use with my non balanced daps so I didn't have to change cables. I think the Fiio was one of the cheaper ones, but despite having thin wires it's held up really good. 

Also good for comparing different gears. Like I always compare my s10e just because it does have decent audio. No match for btr5 lol but it's still decent.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 10, 2020)

Like when you listen to some good resolving gear to a song you hadn't heard in ages but they played the **** out of it.

Sometimes you're like man this pop band was good! Like I'm listening to Rio by Duran Duran and besides all the crazy sequenced synths the bass and guitar parts are killer- especially the bass! The btr5 gives everything plenty of space to marvel at the different parts.


----------



## AudioNoob

If anybody has a btr5 that they bought and decided they don't need, I'd be interested in purchasing a copy.


----------



## progdvd

With ES100 it's recommended to pause the music before unplugging the cable. What about BTR5, same or safe to unplug?


----------



## Plej

Hi, is LDAC EQ still disabled?


----------



## MadMike

Knightsfan11 said:


> Has anyone used this in there car, by plugging into the AUX cable of there sound system? Currently have a parrot system, which unfortunately doesn't have any of the top BT codecs, such as AAC.


This is precisely why I purchased the BTR5- it is replacing an ES100 used in the same application. The ES100 kept cutting out/resetting every few seconds/minutes due to the crap mini-USB connection to the ES100 from the USB-A to mini-USB cable that supplied the power. It finally stopped playing altogether.

How is the BTR5 doing in the same setup? Can't tell you that yet because its for my daughter's car and she is away at college- I will be able to test it out in a couple of weeks. I am optimistic due to the much more secure USB-C connection on the BTR5 though. Might give it a try in my wife's car to see how stable the power connection is. Stay tuned...


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 10, 2020)

progdvd said:


> With ES100 it's recommended to pause the music before unplugging the cable. What about BTR5, same or safe to unplug?



It is safe to unplug during music playback on BTR5, which will automatically pause the music when you do so mainly as a way to protect your hearing (in the case of you plugging in something much more sensitive). ES100 on the other hand is because the lack of short-circuit protection, which can fry the output stage.



Plej said:


> Hi, is LDAC EQ still disabled?



Yes, but you can EQ it on the smartphone (assuming that's your source).


----------



## Lolito

Probably a stupid question, I apologise in advance, but I am confused since I have seen people doing this:

Can this thing drive an HD6XX? I guess not, but, I was wondering if anyone tried it, thanks!!!


----------



## Forsaked

Lolito said:


> Probably a stupid question, I apologise in advance, but I am confused since I have seen people doing this:
> 
> Can this thing drive an HD6XX? I guess not, but, I was wondering if anyone tried it, thanks!!!



I am sure i have read that it can drive Sennheiser HD600 (300 Ohm) and Beyerdynamic T1 (600 Ohm) without a problem.


----------



## Hamlap

psikey said:


> Replying to my own post, 0.78mm 2pin 2.5mm balanced cheapo cable arrived today and as with my SE846's the K10U sound better balanced vs SE.
> 
> The cable is amazing for £15 but I had to use a hairdryer to warm up the soft memory sleeve to bend to a tighter angle as per the included Noble SE cable. Doesn't have an adjuster sleeve to tighten up to chin but can easily fit one over the ends if I need it.
> 
> ...



Good to hear! But I think I would just want an adapter to 2.5mm. Leave that in the BTR5 and use 3.5mm on other sources if I can't use the BTR5. Now just get a nice and not TO expensive adapter.


----------



## ClieOS

Hamlap said:


> Good to hear! But I think I would just want an adapter to 2.5mm. Leave that in the BTR5 and use 3.5mm on other sources if I can't use the BTR5. Now just get a nice and not TO expensive adapter.



3.5mm male single-ended to 2.5mm female balanced adapter : OK to use.

2.5mm male balanced to 3.5mm female single-ended adapter : NOT OK to use.


----------



## Hamlap (Feb 11, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> 3.5mm male single-ended to 2.5mm female balanced adapter : OK to use.
> 
> 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5mm female single-ended adapter : NOT OK to use.


So using this balanced cable (which I already own) and then using an adapter to use it on 2.5mm should be fine?!

Edit: Oh wait, guess this would not work. I'd be better off getting a new 2.5mm balanced cable then I guess?!


----------



## jsmiller58

Hamlap said:


> So using this balanced cable (which I already own) and then using an adapter to use it on 2.5mm should be fine?!


Wait...you have a 3.5mm connector on your cable and want to use an adapter to plug into 2.5mm jack?  That would be a NO.  If on the other hand you have a 2.5mm cable connector why would you need an adapter?


----------



## Hamlap (Feb 11, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> Wait...you have a 3.5mm connector on your cable and want to use an adapter to plug into 2.5mm jack?  That would be a NO.  If on the other hand you have a 2.5mm cable connector why would you need an adapter?


Yeah, just updated my message. What I want, probably won't work. I have a 3.5mm Balanced cable, that I would like to use on the 2.5mm of the BTR5. But as you state: that won't work. I'll probably get this one, with 2.5mm: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07ZQD54XR/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A166SV9QJZG8W0&psc=1


----------



## HipHopScribe (Feb 11, 2020)

Lolito said:


> Probably a stupid question, I apologise in advance, but I am confused since I have seen people doing this:
> 
> Can this thing drive an HD6XX? I guess not, but, I was wondering if anyone tried it, thanks!!!



Yes, especially balanced but even SE will get you enough volume. Of course it's not gonna sound 100% as good as a high quality desktop amp, but it works fine


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Hamlap said:


> Yeah, just updated my message. What I want, probably won't work. I have a 3.5mm Balanced cable, that I would like to use on the 2.5mm of the BTR5. But as you state: that won't work. I'll probably get this one, with 2.5mm: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07ZQD54XR/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A166SV9QJZG8W0&psc=1


This cable will work. 

What u have is a 3.5 single ended ( unbalanced ) cable. Just to clarify your thoughts.


----------



## abitdeef

I thought he had a 3.5 balanced cable.


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 11, 2020)

Hamlap said:


> So using this balanced cable (which I already own) and then using an adapter to use it on 2.5mm should be fine?!
> 
> Edit: Oh wait, guess this would not work. I'd be better off getting a new 2.5mm balanced cable then I guess?!



Any time a balanced (whatever plug) cable is used with a balanced-to-balanced adapter, it is fine. You are merely changing which plug it is, the setup as a whole reminds in balanced configuration. It is when  you are changing single-ended (cable) to balanced (plug) that you must pay attention - that's, if the cable is single-ended to begin with, you can't make it into balanced by using an adapter. To use balanced audio, the cable must be in balanced first. A balanced cable can be use with whatever adapter (balanced to balanced ot balanced to single-ended) you want, but a single-ended cable can NEVER be used with balanced adapter.

That cable in the link above doesn't have a 3.5mm balanced version (all the option for 3.5mm plug is for single-ended). So just to be absolutely sure, you should confirm whether it is indeed balanced or not.



Hamlap said:


> Yeah, just updated my message. What I want, probably won't work. I have a 3.5mm Balanced cable, that I would like to use on the 2.5mm of the BTR5. But as you state: that won't work. I'll probably get this one, with 2.5mm: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07ZQD54XR/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A166SV9QJZG8W0&psc=1



3.5mm balanced (Hifiman standard TRRS) is fine actually. As said above, you can use a 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5mm female balanced adapter with an 3.5mm_* balanced*_ cable, as it is balanced-to-balanced.


----------



## abitdeef

Hamlap said:


> Yeah, just updated my message. What I want, probably won't work. I have a 3.5mm Balanced cable, that I would like to use on the 2.5mm of the BTR5. But as you state: that won't work. I'll probably get this one, with 2.5mm: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07ZQD54XR/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A166SV9QJZG8W0&psc=1



Yep that's it. You get about 75 db of seperation with SE and 118 decibels with balanced, that's measured with a load also  so you've got less crosstalk in balanced and more seperation between channels. 

Your brain will interpret that as more ''space' in the sound field. That's one real benefit with a balanced circuit besides low noise and more power. Not that they could get those specs on the 3.5 out, they certainly could but 'balanced' seems here to stay.


----------



## abitdeef

ClieOS said:


> Any time a balanced (whatever plug) cable is used with a balanced-to-balanced adapter, it is fine. You are merely changing which plug it is, the setup as a whole reminds in balanced configuration. It is when  you are changing single-ended (cable) to balanced (plug) that you must pay attention - that's, if the cable is single-ended to begin with, you can't make it into balanced by using an adapter. To use balanced audio, the cable must be in balanced first. A balanced cable can be use with whatever adapter (balanced to balanced ot balanced to single-ended) you want, but a single-ended cable can NEVER be used with balanced adapter.
> 
> Right, otherwise you'll short the circuit out because it wont be grounded (dual) properly and that could damage your circuit. I never even knew 3.5 balanced existed until I got the ifi xdsd. With that honestly I didn't notice much if any difference.
> 
> 3.5mm balanced (Hifiman standard) is fine actually. As said above, you can use a 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5mm female balanced adapter with an 3.5mm_* balanced*_ cable, as it is balanced-to-balanced.



Sorry, posted in the quote :0


----------



## Hamlap

Chris Kaoss said:


> This cable will work.
> 
> What u have is a 3.5 single ended ( unbalanced ) cable. Just to clarify your thoughts.


Awesome, thanks!



abitdeef said:


> I thought he had a 3.5 balanced cable.



I thought so to. But now: I'm not sure anymore... How can I tell? By the black stripes on the plug?



ClieOS said:


> Any time a balanced (whatever plug) cable is used with a balanced-to-balanced adapter, it is fine. You are merely changing which plug it is, the setup as a whole reminds in balanced configuration. It is when  you are changing single-ended (cable) to balanced (plug) that you must pay attention - that's, if the cable is single-ended to begin with, you can't make it into balanced by using an adapter. To use balanced audio, the cable must be in balanced first. A balanced cable can be use with whatever adapter (balanced to balanced ot balanced to single-ended) you want, but a single-ended cable can NEVER be used with balanced adapter.
> 
> That cable in the link above doesn't have a 3.5mm balanced version (all the option for 3.5mm plug is for single-ended). So just to be absolutely sure, you should confirm whether it is indeed balanced or not.
> 
> 3.5mm balanced (Hifiman standard TRRS) is fine actually. As said above, you can use a 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5mm female balanced adapter with an 3.5mm_* balanced*_ cable, as it is balanced-to-balanced.



Alright! I guess since mine probably are not balanced, I should just get the 2.5mm one I linked.



abitdeef said:


> Yep that's it. You get about 75 db of seperation with SE and 118 decibels with balanced, that's measured with a load also  so you've got less crosstalk in balanced and more seperation between channels.
> 
> Your brain will interpret that as more ''space' in the sound field. That's one real benefit with a balanced circuit besides low noise and more power. Not that they could get those specs on the 3.5 out, they certainly could but 'balanced' seems here to stay.


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## abitdeef

Hamlap said:


> Awesome, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The balanced will have 3 black lines on it instead of 2 , 4 poles counting the end.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Feb 11, 2020)

Hamlap said:


> So using this balanced cable (which I already own) and then using an adapter to use it on 2.5mm should be fine?!
> 
> Edit: Oh wait, guess this would not work. I'd be better off getting a new 2.5mm balanced cable then I guess?!


I was writing about this cable with 3.5 plug.
That's not a balanced cable.
It's a balanced to se adapter, so you can use a 2.5 balanced cable to the socket ( 3 black strips) with a se plug ( 2 strips ) on the amp side.
The opposite way 3.5 to 2.5 could frye your balanced amp in case of a shortcut between r+ and r- connect to ground of the socket.

The only 3.5 balanced connection i do know is the headphone plug of the Oppo PM-3 i have. But on the amp side, there is a 2.5 balanced plug.


----------



## Plej

ClieOS said:


> Yes, but you can EQ it on the smartphone (assuming that's your source).


Thanks for the reply. Do you know a good EQ for Android that will work for both local files and streaming apps?


----------



## dan (Feb 11, 2020)

_Now that I'm home things should be much better._
I'm fully enjoying the BTR5 with 2.5 Tripowin cables for my TRMS 4 Pros. Super wide sound stage. Like I'm with the guys on stage. Zonie 16 Core.
_Waiting for the break of day._
Very good separation.
_Tired of lying in the sunshine._


----------



## ClieOS

Plej said:


> Thanks for the reply. Do you know a good EQ for Android that will work for both local files and streaming apps?



No idea, sorry. I have an Sony Xperia and it already has Sony own EQ system built into the smartphone.


----------



## whoking

Knightsfan11 said:


> Has anyone used this in there car, by plugging into the AUX cable of there sound system? Currently have a parrot system, which unfortunately doesn't have any of the top BT codecs, such as AAC.


Yes it works great in my car through the AUX input.  My car only allows 1 BT connection and I play music from my M11 to the BTR5 to eliminate a cable.


----------



## jsmiller58

I use my BTR5 with my LG v30 phone.  I set the LDAC rate to 990 in developer settings.  Is there anyway to actually confirm that this is the setting being used by the BTR5?


----------



## hifi80sman

Curious...is the 3.5mm slot a little "soft" for anyone else?  In other words, there is typically a satisfying "click" when inserting the cable into a 3.5mm jack, but in this case, there is no click and it's simply a firm, but soft, push.


----------



## Sound Eq

how would the Fiio BTR 5 compare to something like ibasso dc01 dongle to use with a galaxy note 10, in terms of sound quality performance only, to use with iems only


----------



## psikey

Lolito said:


> Probably a stupid question, I apologise in advance, but I am confused since I have seen people doing this:
> 
> Can this thing drive an HD6XX? I guess not, but, I was wondering if anyone tried it, thanks!!!



Easily, especially if using balanced cable.


----------



## Aevum

Im tempted to get one, but at the same time im thinking... 

This is only a couple of bottons, and a MicroSD card slot from a pumped up M5, wouldnt it be a better device ?


----------



## psikey (Feb 12, 2020)

Aevum said:


> Im tempted to get one, but at the same time im thinking...
> 
> This is only a couple of bottons, and a MicroSD card slot from a pumped up M5, wouldnt it be a better device ?



What microSD slot? This sounds better than a "_Pumped up M11_" or Hiby R5 or Dragonfly DAC/AMP IMO let alone an M5.

The main point is most of us have a decent phone with plenty of storage these days and UI/screen/speed better than any DAP.

With Android phones & LDAC BT 660/990kbps sound quality is approaching quality of wired so why have another bulky device. iPhones not so good with BT but latest do have aptxHD. Plus can also connect wired for full bit-perfect playback.

In my case I have an excellent 512GB Samsung S10+ with a 512GB mSD so vast amounts of storage for my own files and offline streaming music files.

PS. If you didn't twig from my first line the BTR5 or BTR3 or ES100 type devices have no internal or mSD storage at all. They are BT/wired DAC/AMPS with volume & playback controls.


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> What microSD slot? This sounds better than a "_Pumped up M11_" or Hiby R5 or Dragonfly DAC/AMP IMO let alone an M5.
> 
> The main point is most of us have a decent phone with plenty of storage these days and UI/screen/speed better than any DAP.
> 
> ...




This ^


----------



## hifi80sman

psikey said:


> Easily, especially if using balanced cable.


When using the 3.5mm jack, is there a "click" when you insert or is it kinda soft/mushy?  Mine works, but I want to make sure it's not defective.


----------



## psikey

hifi80sman said:


> When using the 3.5mm jack, is there a "click" when you insert or is it kinda soft/mushy?  Mine works, but I want to make sure it's not defective.



Like in any other 3.5mm jack, a click as end locks into place, not mushy, but not totally clear what your asking.


----------



## hifi80sman

psikey said:


> Like in any other 3.5mm jack, a click as end locks into place, not mushy, but not totally clear what your asking.


On my unit, there is no click when the ends are in place (tried numerous 3.5mm male ends), it's just kind of slides in and out with no click securing it.  It works and it's not loose, but it's also not clicked into place.  I was wondering if it's just my unit or a common manufacturing issue.


----------



## abitdeef

hifi80sman said:


> On my unit, there is no click when the ends are in place (tried numerous 3.5mm male ends), it's just kind of slides in and out with no click securing it.  It works and it's not loose, but it's also not clicked into place.  I was wondering if it's just my unit or a common manufacturing issue.




My 3.5 clicks in also and is pretty tight.


----------



## Knightsfan11

whoking said:


> Yes it works great in my car through the AUX input.  My car only allows 1 BT connection and I play music from my M11 to the BTR5 to eliminate a cable.


Interesting, I will have a think. My current sound system is fine, but always looking for improve T's & getting use of the AAC Bluetooth codec would be just that.

Seeing a I use an LG V30 with wired headphones, I really wouldn't have any other use for the BTR5 right?


----------



## abitdeef

Knightsfan11 said:


> Interesting, I will have a think. My current sound system is fine, but always looking for improve T's & getting use of the AAC Bluetooth codec would be just that.
> 
> Seeing a I use an LG V30 with wired headphones, I really wouldn't have any other use for the BTR5 right?



Besides sounding better no.


----------



## Knightsfan11

abitdeef said:


> Besides sounding better no.


BTR5 sounding better than the LG's DAC? Doubt it.


----------



## psikey

Knightsfan11 said:


> BTR5 sounding better than the LG's DAC? Doubt it.


It most certainly does. My V30 has now been sold and so has my A105, R5, Dragonfly Cobalt. Also returned a ZX507 but only due to EU volume cap killing it.

V30 is great as a music phone but not against great DAC/AMPs.


----------



## Knightsfan11

psikey said:


> It most certainly does. My V30 has now been sold and so has my A105, R5, Dragonfly Cobalt. Also returned a ZX507 but only due to EU volume cap killing it.
> 
> V30 is great as a music phone but not against great DAC/AMPs.


Interesting.

So, headphones (wired) plug into the AUX in the BTR5, BTR5 connects via BT to phone of choice.. That's it?


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 12, 2020)

Knightsfan11 said:


> BTR5 sounding better than the LG's DAC? Doubt it.



Lol ok believe what you want. It's more than just the dac. It's the implementation and the amp stage and LPF that really shape the sound. I've heard the LG and I've heard the btr5 so I've got ya there  Of course I use balanced, but it sounds as good or better than the myriad of daps I've tried over the last 2 months, and 3 of those were 1200.00 dollar daps. 

Now those could drive demanding headphones better on balanced. But on my stuff the btr5 sounded just as good to my ears. 

Lg v30 sounds good, but this just sounds better imo.


----------



## psikey (Feb 12, 2020)

Knightsfan11 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So, headphones (wired) plug into the AUX in the BTR5, BTR5 connects via BT to phone of choice.. That's it?


?

The BTR5 has a 3.5mm connector for standard cable and a 2.5mm connector for balanced cables.

You can then said audio to it over BT, ideally LDAC BT or connect with an appropriate USB cable to phone or PC to use as a wired DAC/AMP.

Not sure what your refering to with AUX.

I've use my BTR5 with Shure SE846, Noble K10U IEM's and also my Audeze Mobious wired and all sound great.

I use it wired while indoors and via LDAC BT when out & about.

As shown previously i  thread. (Here with K10U via 3.5mm cable)


----------



## abitdeef

This thing really shines via USB out with dsd files.


----------



## Knightsfan11

psikey said:


> ?
> 
> The BTR5 has a 3.5mm connector for standard cable and a 2.5mm connector for balanced cables.
> 
> ...


Sorry, meant to say wired into 3.5mm connection jack.


----------



## psikey (Feb 12, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> This thing really shines via USB out with dsd files.



I know. I'd never heard DSD's as good as out of the Mojo & Hugo 2 but they also sound amazing out of the BTR5 when wired too.

I still cant get my head around how this can sound so good for a sub £100 device, especially via balanced.

Only the ZX507 for me sounds as good but with Sony sound signature. Will likely still get another ZX507 import without volume cap at some point.

PS. I've not had a DAP above £750 before so can't comment on the real premium DAP's.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 12, 2020)

psikey said:


> I know. I'd never heard DSD's as good as out of the Mojo & Hugo 2 but they also sound amazing out of the BTR5 when wired too.
> 
> I still cant get my head around how this can sound so good for a sub £100 device, especially via balanced.
> 
> ...



It has all the hallmarks of a more expensive gear sonically. Big sound stage, good positioning in the imaginary stage with good space for individual instruments. Also great dynamics, low noise, good attack and decay speed, realistic timbre and good control and extension end to end. 

Pretty amazing for the price and size. I'm listening to Lep Zepp 'The Song remains the same' and the speed and dynamics are really, really good. The 'heavyness' of Bonzos drumming is really coming through. 

I'm getting the details of the sustain of the ride cymbals in the beginning and usually that doesn't come through in most gear. And I'm using it with ldac to boot!


----------



## nigel801

I have ifi XDSD is it worth getting BTR5 over xDSD I like the form factor and convenience of 2.5mm ballanced? has anyone compared it with DX160 or Sony A105. Thanks


----------



## psikey

nigel801 said:


> I have ifi XDSD is it worth getting BTR5 over xDSD I like the form factor and convenience of 2.5mm ballanced? has anyone compared it with DX160 or Sony A105. Thanks


A105 is great (non EU one) but BTR5 balanced sounds better and A105 can't drive what the BTR5 can. I sold on my A105 import after getting the BTR5.


----------



## nigel801

psikey said:


> A105 is great (non EU one) but BTR5 balanced sounds better and A105 can't drive what the BTR5 can. I sold on my A105 import after getting the BTR5.


Thanks now I have to find one in EU who can ship quickly


----------



## zikarus

Has anybody compared the BTR5 against a Dragonfly Cobalt yet?


----------



## psikey (Feb 12, 2020)

zikarus said:


> Has anybody compared the BTR5 against a Dragonfly Cobalt yet?


As mentioned above, I had Dragonfly Cobalt which I sold when I got the BTR5.

DFC is a nice DAC/AMP and to me does have the edge over the BTR5 SE wired but the BTR5 still better over ballanced and so much cheaper.

DFC also limited to 24/96 with no Native DSD and no BT for 3x the cost. Just not worth its price. DFC has more driving power.


----------



## zikarus

Oops must have overseen this - thought you were talking about the DFR... 

So it is only MQA that the BTR5 is missing. Maybe the Beam 2 is the way to go then when not in need for BT...


----------



## psikey

zikarus said:


> Oops must have overseen this - thought you were talking about the DFR...
> 
> So it is only MQA that the BTR5 is missing. Maybe the Beam 2 is the way to go then when not in need for BT...


Only 2nd unfold as Tidal App on PC & phones does MQA as does UAPP on Android.

I've never been able to tell difference with an MQA unfold to 24/96 vs 24/192.


----------



## dan (Feb 12, 2020)

_Has he lost his mind? Can he see or is he blind?_
The BTR5 makes BLON BL-03s fun when using balanced 2.5. They respond to the added output on _low_ and the widened soundstage. Keeping them.
_Golden slumbers fill your eyes._
Good bass emphasis.
_I look at you all, see the love that's there sleeping_
Another Tripowin Zonie 2.5 cable came today from Linsoul. $16. And foam tips are the only way to get a seal for me.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Feb 12, 2020)

nigel801 said:


> I have ifi XDSD is it worth getting BTR5 over xDSD I like the form factor and convenience of 2.5mm ballanced? has anyone compared it with DX160 or Sony A105. Thanks


Granted that I haven't used my xDSD in a LONG time, but for me I would definitely use the BTR5 over the xDSD.  The much smaller form factor makes the BTR5 significantly more portable. There is plenty of power to be had with the BTR5. Both give you the option of usb connection as well as BT. The BTR5 gives you LDAC while xDSD if I remember correctly is stuck at apt-x.  XDSD does support full MQA unfold, true... not to start a religious war, but who can reliably tell the difference?

My opinion...  BTR5.


----------



## Devodonaldson

nigel801 said:


> I have ifi XDSD is it worth getting BTR5 over xDSD I like the form factor and convenience of 2.5mm ballanced? has anyone compared it with DX160 or Sony A105. Thanks


I have btr5 and xdsd. Wired, I prefer xdsd. Bluetooth, the btr5 via LDAC has a greater treble presence vs xdsd in APTX, but then I remembered to turn on the 3dnon xdsd, which actually boosts the treble, and then there it is. To my ears, the XDSD wins on Bluetooth as well. Btr5 is super portable, has mic for talking, etc. But as just pure music playing device, I like the XDSD better. As a side note,nice come to find out that the XDSD also does APTX LL, which is awesome for Bluetooth gaming/watching videos. That was completely unexpected. Anyway. Btr5 is amazing for its form factor, and price, but at pure audio playback, the XDSD wins.


----------



## Hanesu (Feb 13, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> Granted that I haven't used my xDSD in a LONG time, but for me I would definitely use the BTR5 over the xDSD.  The much smaller form factor makes the BTR5 significantly more portable. There is plenty of power to be had with the BTR5. Both give you the option of usb connection as well as BT. The BTR5 gives you LDAC while xDSD if I remember correctly is stuck at apt-x.  XDSD does support full MQA unfold, true... not to start a religious war, but who can reliably tell the difference?
> 
> My opinion...  BTR5.



I agree that the BTR5 has advantages over xDSD in terms of usability, portability and technical features. But I must say I still slightly prefer xDSD`s sound. Sounds a bit rounder, fuller and musical than BTR5. That is why will I continue using both.


----------



## Lolito

psikey said:


> What microSD slot? This sounds better than a "_Pumped up M11_" or Hiby R5 or Dragonfly DAC/AMP IMO let alone an M5.
> 
> The main point is most of us have a decent phone with plenty of storage these days and UI/screen/speed better than any DAP.
> 
> ...



This is quite true, specially since all current new DAPS run on android, with poor battery life because of that, and then if sound is not that that great, this little BTR5 and the phone is a great thing.

Looking forward for Bluetooth to get over 1411kbs at a certain point. Until that they are going to be selling us new standards, UAT 1200kbs, then 1300, then 1400, then 1500. None of those will work well from the beginning, then they will release low latency for each format, then larger range... Apple AirPlay system works over wifi and already works at 1411kbs with no drops and huge distance, then again, it probably needs a ton of energy compared to bluetooth, I assume.


----------



## Arghavan

Devodonaldson said:


> I have btr5 and xdsd. Wired, I prefer xdsd. Bluetooth, the btr5 via LDAC has a greater treble presence vs xdsd in APTX, but then I remembered to turn on the 3dnon xdsd, which actually boosts the treble, and then there it is. To my ears, the XDSD wins on Bluetooth as well. Btr5 is super portable, has mic for talking, etc. But as just pure music playing device, I like the XDSD better. As a side note,nice come to find out that the XDSD also does APTX LL, which is awesome for Bluetooth gaming/watching videos. That was completely unexpected. Anyway. Btr5 is amazing for its form factor, and price, but at pure audio playback, the XDSD wins.


Thanks for the feedback. Does BTR5 have hiss with your Solaris? (SE or Balanced)


----------



## psikey

Arghavan said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Does BTR5 have hiss with your Solaris? (SE or Balanced)



Think Solaris is 10 Ohm while my SE846's are 8 Ohm. There's none with my SE846's.


----------



## 435279

psikey said:


> Think Solaris is 10 Ohm while my SE846's are 8 Ohm. There's none with my SE846's.



Don't forget to include the sensitivity number too. SE846 is 114 dB SPL/mW Solaris is 115 dB SPL/mW  so one extra dB per mW. Will that make any difference, no idea but it might if a listener is sensitive to hiss. I personally only notice hiss very rarely with some sources and the SE846 but I don't own Solaris.


----------



## majo123 (Feb 14, 2020)

psikey said:


> The main point is most of us have a decent phone with plenty of storage these days and UI/screen/speed better than any DAP.





psikey said:


> LDAC BT when out & about.





psikey said:


> I still cant get my head around how this can sound so good for a sub £100 device, especially via balanced.



I agree with all these statements,  the btr5 has replaced my usage of a dap out and about and even around the house doing jobs, it is that good!...does it beat my main sitting listening dap?... no but it so close ...but for the £80 paid, its portability,  stability and audio quality then for me it may be the best audio buy I have bought in a long time and definitely getting a lot of use.


----------



## SBranson (Feb 15, 2020)

So I had another one of those days where the BTR5 was being tempermental.  A couple times after pausing for about 10 mins, it would just shut off and not turn back on again.  I tried plugging it in and nothing..  then a few minutes later I get the "charging" battery graphic.  I turned it on, it connected, showed the battery at 100% and then half a minute later shut off... I held the power button for a long time presumably to reset it but nothing so I used my ES100 for about an hour and left the BTR5 plugged in to charge in case that was the issue.
I then tried it and it worked fine for most of the rest of the day..  It shut down once more but powered back up and worked fine for the rest of the day.

I wonder if the battery life indicator isn't working properly..  I checked and I have the unit set to shut off after 30 mins so it's not that..

Strange...  It's a bit worrisome when it first craps out but it seems to figure itself out after a little bit..

Anyone else experiencing weird behaviour.
It should be noted that I have it on all day.  Sometimes I don't listen and have it paused for a couple hours (it doesn't always automatically shut down either).
So, it's getting a lot of use..


----------



## jsmiller58

SBranson said:


> So I had another one of those days where the BTR5 was being tempermental.  A couple times after pausing for about 10 mins, it would just shut off and not turn back on again.  I tried plugging it in and nothing..  then a few minutes later I get the "charging" battery graphic.  I turned it on, it connected, showed the battery at 100% and then half a minute later shut off... I held the power button for a long time presumably to reset it but nothing so I used my ES100 for about an hour and left the BTR5 plugged in to charge in case that was the issue.
> I then tried it and it worked fine for most of the rest of the day..  It shut down once more but powered back up and worked fine for the rest of the day.
> 
> I wonder if the battery life indicator isn't working properly..  I checked and I have the unit set to shut off after 30 mins so it's not that..
> ...


Mine will auto shut down after using it for 30-40 minutes.  Very consistent.  No problems powering it back on.

i still have to update the firmware.  Maybe that will do something.


----------



## SBranson

jsmiller58 said:


> Mine will auto shut down after using it for 30-40 minutes.  Very consistent.  No problems powering it back on.
> 
> i still have to update the firmware.  Maybe that will do something.



Hmm... there was an update already?  I've had mine for 2 months..  I guess I'll check in the morning.


----------



## frazrok

Forsaked said:


> I am sure i have read that it can drive Sennheiser HD600 (300 Ohm) and Beyerdynamic T1 (600 Ohm) without a problem.



I have used mine with both of those headphones and it drives them a treat. to be honest, ive not met a headphone yet that it struggles with. great bit of kit


----------



## wasupdog

This is meant to be used with headphones or iems plugged into the BTR5, right?  It doesn't have bluetooth transmission to wireless headphones like a dap?


----------



## frazrok

wasupdog said:


> This is meant to be used with headphones or iems plugged into the BTR5, right?  It doesn't have bluetooth transmission to wireless headphones like a dap?


Correct. It can only receive Bluetooth connections. Not send them. So you'll need to plug your headset into it


----------



## The Torrent

Can someone explain to me the point of using one of these? And not just an audio player or amp that plugs into your phone?


----------



## frazrok

The Torrent said:


> Can someone explain to me the point of using one of these? And not just an audio player or amp that plugs into your phone?


It changes the whole sound of the music. Increased bitrate makes the music pop a bit more. 

Means you don't have to plug anything into your phone. Especially as more phones now are losing the headphone jack. 

Can drive more powerful headphones that require more driving than a standard phone can provide. 

Can also be used as a sax when plugged into a pc via USB of up to 32bit/384khz. Higher than most other dacs, let alone of this size making the music sound that much better


----------



## The Torrent

frazrok said:


> It changes the whole sound of the music. Increased bitrate makes the music pop a bit more.
> 
> Means you don't have to plug anything into your phone. Especially as more phones now are losing the headphone jack.
> 
> ...



’more phones now are losing the headphone jack’ that was the answer I was looking for thanks 

would this be good enough for audeze el-8’s or is it not powerful enough?


----------



## frazrok

The Torrent said:


> ’more phones now are losing the headphone jack’ that was the answer I was looking for thanks
> 
> would this be good enough for audeze el-8’s or is it not powerful enough?


It can definitely drive them with no issues. It's amazing the power it can push. I've yet to meet a hair of headphones that it can't drive to a easily loud enough level


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The Torrent said:


> ’more phones now are losing the headphone jack’ that was the answer I was looking for thanks
> 
> would this be good enough for audeze el-8’s or is it not powerful enough?


Should be perfect with the EL-8.


----------



## The Torrent

frazrok said:


> It can definitely drive them with no issues. It's amazing the power it can push. I've yet to meet a hair of headphones that it can't drive to a easily loud enough level





Chris Kaoss said:


> Should be perfect with the EL-8.



hmm people used to tell me that it’s hard to I find an amp that will drive planars because they use so much power or something, is there any chance one of you can explain to me which readings to be looking for when looking at amps?

people used to tell me stuff like Astell and Kern mk2 weren’t powerful enough for el-8’s, now this tiny thing is?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The Torrent said:


> hmm people used to tell me that it’s hard to I find an amp that will drive planars because they use so much power or something, is there any chance one of you can explain to me which readings to be looking for when looking at amps?
> 
> people used to tell me stuff like Astell and Kern mk2 weren’t powerful enough for el-8’s, now this tiny thing is?


There is a difference between "powerful enough to drive" and "drive it to it's full potential.

Planar are usually very power hungry.
But the btr5 can drive my Era-1 ( 20ohm, 94db/mW) to nice listening levels out of the 3.5 se. Didn't try the 2.5 bal with the Quad.
With my Monitor 5 ( 40ohm/ 99db ), i can't barely go beyond 40 out of 60 on balanced without the chance of loss hearing.
My Audio GD R28 on the other side, gives the power to play with autority to their full potential.
That doesn't mean the R28 is able to reach higher volume levels ( it does ^^), it's more the dynamics and control, which brings more satisfaction to myself. 

Your EL-8 will fit perfect balanced.


----------



## The Torrent

Chris Kaoss said:


> There is a difference between "powerful enough to drive" and "drive it to it's full potential.
> 
> Planar are usually very power hungry.
> But the btr5 can drive my Era-1 ( 20ohm, 94db/mW) to nice listening levels out of the 3.5 se. Didn't try the 2.5 bal with the Quad.
> ...


Balanced cables are gonna cost me £150, half the price of the headphones 

so not without balanced?


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Feb 16, 2020)

The Torrent said:


> Balanced cables are gonna cost me £150, half the price of the headphones
> 
> so not without balanced?


Even with SE it'll be a safe bet. --> see my writing about my Era-1.
Won't go beyond 50 on the long run with it.
The EL-8 is 30ohm and 102db/ mW.
Looks great so far for this combo.
Btr5 is capable to output 80mW on 32ohm in SE.


----------



## The Torrent

Chris Kaoss said:


> Even with SE it'll be a safe bet. --> see my writing about my Era-1.
> The EL-8 is 30ohm and 102db/ mW.
> Looks great so far for this combo.
> Btr5 is capable to output 80mW on 32ohm in SE.


I don’t understand how mW work, so 102db is loud for headphones, so I will basically never use it more than 1mw? So u get things like A&K kann cube with 4w When headphones don’t even use a mw?

so even this 80mw for a headphone which will use at max 1 mw is overkill?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The Torrent said:


> I don’t understand how mW work, so 102db is loud for headphones, so I will basically never use it more than 1mw? So u get things like A&K kann cube with 4w When headphones don’t even use a mw?
> 
> so even this 80mw for a headphone which will use at max 1 mw is overkill?


Here is a quick overview to increase your knowledge in a good manner. 


Spoiler: please read me to continue



https://www.shure.com/en-GB/support/find-an-answer/understanding-earphone-headphone-specifications



Power usage of headphones/speakers has an exponentiale curve.
Your headphone needs 1mW to reach 102db,( don't know the methode of the measurements of audeze ) .

Here is a nice place to calculate the power needs of your EL-8


Spoiler: power calculator



http://www.digizoid.com/power.php



Hope that helps a bit to understand power consumption.

Ask more if needed.

Have a great listening.


----------



## 435279

The Torrent said:


> so even this 80mw for a headphone which will use at max 1 mw is overkill?



Correct but I suppose you could say its about having a bit of spare headroom.

A typical family saloon with 160bhp will have a rated maximum speed of around 140mph+ but it will probably never be driven at that speed in reality.

But not many people would like to drive a car that only has a maximum rated speed of 70 mph on the motorway.


----------



## hifi80sman

The Torrent said:


> hmm people used to tell me that it’s hard to I find an amp that will drive planars because they use so much power or something, is there any chance one of you can explain to me which readings to be looking for when looking at amps?
> 
> people used to tell me stuff like Astell and Kern mk2 weren’t powerful enough for el-8’s, now this tiny thing is?


If this gives you any idea, they drive my DT 1770 Pro (250 ohms, 102 dB/1mW) perfectly fine, with the volume level for me at a comfortable 24.


----------



## The Torrent

Chris Kaoss said:


> Here is a quick overview to increase your knowledge in a good manner.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: please read me to continue
> ...


not even 0.8mw

who on earth would use headphones over 102db thats rly bad for ur ears.


why on earth does anyone need like 1watt amps lol


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The Torrent said:


> not even 0.8mw
> 
> who on earth would use headphones over 102db thats rly bad for ur ears.
> 
> ...


Don't forget that there are headphones like the Beyerdynamic T1 (600ohm, with 1400ohm peak at 120Hz)  or low sensitive ones like well known hifiman or audeze (below 90db/mW).

Not every amp is made to perform well with low resistance transducer, and the most cheaper amps aren't suited for high resistance transducer to drive them well.
At higher resistance more voltage becomes very important, while on very low resistance the current is needed.

Use the calculator to get a better view over this specific examples. 

Keep in mind that the power usage is exponentially.


----------



## Psychocybin (Feb 16, 2020)

Can the BTR5 output vis its usb to say a mojo? I can’t seem to find any smallish device that will receive my iPhone tidal streaming wirelessly and relay it to my mojo via usb out. I know the poly exists but the reviews on that are awful.

I’m just trying to keep my mojo+something small in my pocket and use my phone to control the stuff.


----------



## jsmiller58

Psychocybin said:


> Can the BTR5 output vis its usb to say a mojo? I can’t seem to find any smallish device that will receive my iPhone tidal streaming wirelessly and relay it to my mojo via usb out. I know the poly exists but the reviews on that are awful.
> 
> I’m just trying to keep my mojo+something small in my pocket and use my phone to control the stuff.


I BELIEVE not.  The USB will accept input and let the BTR5 act as a wired DAC/AMP, but you cannot receive wirelessly and output through the USBC.


----------



## abitdeef

Plus that would kind of be a waste of the btr5's excellent output tech. You've got dual dacs in true balanced mode, dual clock crystals, custom fpga, and xmos for usb in that tiny body.

I actually like the sound sig of the balanced out of the fiio over the mojo.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

I haven't been very active in this hobby lately so I was wondering did FiiO increased the Price of BTR5  from $100 to $150 USD?


----------



## ClieOS

Made this short balanced cable yesterday for pairing Rose Maria with BTR5.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

I also am in the need for a very short balanced 2.5 to 3.5 cable for my PM-3.
Any makers there? 

Looks good so far, @ClieOS .


----------



## 435279

Psychocybin said:


> Can the BTR5 output vis its usb to say a mojo? I can’t seem to find any smallish device that will receive my iPhone tidal streaming wirelessly and relay it to my mojo via usb out. I know the poly exists but the reviews on that are awful.
> 
> I’m just trying to keep my mojo+something small in my pocket and use my phone to control the stuff.



For that you want a small DAP like the Shanling M0. It can receive Bluetooth and send it out of its USB C port to a Mojo or other DAC.


----------



## Lolito

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> I haven't been very active in this hobby lately so I was wondering did FiiO increased the Price of BTR5  from $100 to $150 USD?



Apparently yes. 100$ is a decent price for this kind of device. Also Btr5 still give connection issues with 900kbs, so, unless you want to use it as a dac or you really need the display, I would go for something cheaper, like btr3 or the es100. Or wait untilsomething shows up eventually that offers over 1mbs, it's cehap and doesn't loose connection.


----------



## Psychocybin

SteveOliver said:


> For that you want a small DAP like the Shanling M0. It can receive Bluetooth and send it out of its USB C port to a Mojo or other DAC.


I saw that it’s competitor the m5 doesn’t allow that while receiving Bluetooth. The shanling m0 does?


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 17, 2020)

Lolito said:


> Apparently yes. 100$ is a decent price for this kind of device. Also Btr5 still give connection issues with 900kbs, so, unless you want to use it as a dac or you really need the display, I would go for something cheaper, like btr3 or the es100. Or wait untilsomething shows up eventually that offers over 1mbs, it's cehap and doesn't loose connection.



I've got no connection issues with 900kbs ldac at all. I can go about 30 feet before break up. Maybe you have a defective unit. I got mine for 100 bucks, it was 119 and I had a 20 dollar coupon. 

I think it's still in early days, I think it will revert back to 119.00 after it loses some novelty. However it does punch way beyond it's price making lots of devices redundant.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Lolito said:


> Apparently yes. 100$ is a decent price for this kind of device. Also Btr5 still give connection issues with 900kbs, so, unless you want to use it as a dac or you really need the display, I would go for something cheaper, like btr3 or the es100. Or wait untilsomething shows up eventually that offers over 1mbs, it's cehap and doesn't loose connection.


That isn't right at all.
I don't encounter such drops with my V30 within a distance of approx. 6 meter and a door between the devices.

It depends on the pairing, i think.
Or your device got faulty, don't know for sure.

Hope y'all have a great day.


----------



## dskelto

No


Chris Kaoss said:


> I also am in the need for a very short balanced 2.5 to 3.5 cable for my PM-3.
> Any makers there?
> 
> Looks good so far, @ClieOS .


Check out Ebay.  I just received a 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm balanced cable for my PM-3 and it works very well. Price was $21.99.  Great pairing with BTR5.


----------



## dskelto

Lolito said:


> Apparently yes. 100$ is a decent price for this kind of device. Also Btr5 still give connection issues with 900kbs, so, unless you want to use it as a dac or you really need the display, I would go for something cheaper, like btr3 or the es100. Or wait untilsomething shows up eventually that offers over 1mbs, it's cehap and doesn't loose connection.


No connection issues here with 900kbs from LG G8; connection distance is not as great as lesser bandwidth options, but that is to be expected.  IMHO BTR5 sounds much cleaner, less muddled than es100; however BTR5 does not have EQ with LDAC.  No problem for me as I don't use EQ, YMMV.


----------



## 435279

Psychocybin said:


> I saw that it’s competitor the m5 doesn’t allow that while receiving Bluetooth. The shanling m0 does?



I had to go back and check, you made me doubt it for a moment, but yes I have it working here now. LG V30->M0(LDAC)->IFi xDSD its working OK.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

dskelto said:


> No
> 
> Check out Ebay.  I just received a 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm balanced cable for my PM-3 and it works very well. Price was $21.99.  Great pairing with BTR5.


Thank you for the hint.
I'll have a look.


----------



## Psychocybin

SteveOliver said:


> I had to go back and check, you made me doubt it for a moment, but yes I have it working here now. LG V30->M0(LDAC)->IFi xDSD its working OK.



thank you for the info much appreciated


----------



## zeko39

I’ve 3D printed a first prototype of a case, there’s a big gap on the bottom but I’m still kinda pleased with it haha. Will print an improved version soon


----------



## zolom

Would like to have a thin case with a low profile shirt clip (similar to that of the Shanling UP4's)


----------



## psikey

Lolito said:


> Apparently yes. 100$ is a decent price for this kind of device. Also Btr5 still give connection issues with 900kbs, so, unless you want to use it as a dac or you really need the display, I would go for something cheaper, like btr3 or the es100. Or wait untilsomething shows up eventually that offers over 1mbs, it's cehap and doesn't loose connection.



BTR3 has poor signal retention IMO and with 990kbps with BTR5 its also down to the device feeding it and other BT/Wifi interference in your area same as other BT devices.


----------



## psikey (Feb 18, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Made this short balanced cable yesterday for pairing Rose Maria with BTR5.



And if you don't have the skills/equipment to make your own, and use mmcx connectors get the excellent Fiio version. Quality throughout and its cheap!





https://penonaudio.com/fiio-lc-2.5bs-3.5bs.html?sort=p.price&order=ASC&page=2


----------



## Chris Kaoss

I'm in the need of a very short, let's say 5 inch, cable with 2.5 to 3.5 balanced plugs.

Will used it for work in my car detailing company. 
I'll take a look around to find one at a reasonable price.
At FAW, i've to pay 89 € for. ^^


----------



## abitdeef

psikey said:


> And if you don't have the skills/equipment to make your own, and use mmcx connectors get the excellent Fiio version. Quality throughout and its cheap!
> 
> 
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/fiio-lc-2.5bs-3.5bs.html?sort=p.price&order=ASC&page=2



Both pretty cool, I've just been wrapping the excess cable round my neck and clipping btr5 to my collar. Of course these would be a better, more eloquent solution. It's really nice though because all 3 of my current iems sound better than my Sony wireless earphones.


----------



## Applehusky

Just got my btr5.
Anyone else getting a slight crackling/popping noise every now and again on aptxll?


----------



## manukmanohar

Applehusky said:


> Just got my btr5.
> Anyone else getting a slight crackling/popping noise every now and again on aptxll?



I get it mostly when the device is slightly far or sometimes when traveling and my phone is in trouser 's pocket. However this is on LDAC and APTX HD


----------



## Applehusky

manukmanohar said:


> I get it mostly when the device is slightly far or sometimes when traveling and my phone is in trouser 's pocket. However this is on LDAC and APTX HD



LDAC and aptxhd perform flawlessly for me, but even with the btr5 right next to the transmitter (mee audio), using aptx ll, there are very slight interruptions that sound like crackles and pops. It's not huge but it's just enough to be annoying.


----------



## archy121

Chris Kaoss said:


> Sure.
> But it needs a bit of listening time.
> Its hard till impossible to match volumes by hearing.
> Don't know how it'll effect audio from se to bal with nearly 100mW more on the Btr5.



Did you get around to comparing the two ?


FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We will report your feedback to the engineer. But we are not sure whether the MQA Audio support could added in the future or not.
> 
> Best regards



Any updates on this request ??

Full MQA unfolding using BTR5 in a future firmware.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

archy121 said:


> Did you get around to comparing the two ?
> 
> 
> Any updates on this request ??
> ...


Will chime in with tomorrow.


----------



## archy121 (Feb 18, 2020)

Just like to update others and let them know the glitches I was experiencing with BTR5 to V30 over USB C are resolved.

The problem as suspected was because of the cable I was using. A USB C to Micro USB with with a USB C adapter. I guess it was having some kind of bandwidth bottleneck when it came to playing back highest level 384 recordings.

A basic short £3 USB C to USB C cable arrived today and I’m a happy man. Everything is now playing perfectly through UAPP app.

Now I need more time to evaluate using V30 via 3.5mm vs  connected over USB C to BTR5 2.5mm for highest quality listening experience.
LDAC is working so well that it will have to be a fair improvement to bother going the USB C route  at all.


----------



## dan

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> I haven't been very active in this hobby lately so I was wondering did FiiO increased the Price of BTR5  from $100 to $150 USD?



I think not. This is more likely retailers responding to demand that has been repeatedly running through their stock. I was able to get my seller to match the 109. I paid for mine at the beginning of the year on a reorder for 2 more as gifts. 139 on Aliexpress.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

I use usb connection on the Btr5 just to connect to my Surface pro.
With V30, i'm going bluetooth or just the 3.5 socket. 

Nice to hear about the problem is solved.

Have a great listening.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 18, 2020)

archy121 said:


> Just like to update others and let them know the glitches I was experiencing with BTR5 to V30 over USB C are resolved.
> 
> The problem as suspected was because of the cable I was using. A USB C to Micro USB with with a USB C adapter. I guess it was having some kind of bandwidth bottleneck when it came to playing back highest level 384 recordings.
> 
> ...



Honestly bluetooth sounds amazing, but I feel if you're doing dsd or very high quality files you get a large boost using usb. It's still more even and balanced on usb out on regular files but man it's so close with ldac.

I mean it sounds fantastic with ldac. Oh and glad you got the problem sorted.


----------



## ClieOS

archy121 said:


> Full MQA unfolding using BTR5 in a future firmware.



Due to the outbreak, I doubt FiiO is having all their stuffs back to work at this moment. Also doubt they will be back on full swing before mid~later March

On the other hand, I don't see the important of MQA technically on what mainly designed as a BT devices (as BT can't do MQA). Most people who buy BTR5 is going to use it as a BT adapter, but MQA only works over USB. It will add to the cost (at least for FiiO to get the license, as MQA fee is paid on per device basis) yet won't be used on most owners.


----------



## abitdeef

Plus you can always stream Amazon HD which I find superior to mqa and get the full bandwidth via usb out if you want hd streaming. 

Free trials available  ha ha. I really can't notice much difference on ultra high bit rate stuff, I notice more if the recording master is well done. Now DSD I do notice the difference.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 19, 2020)

Cinn314 said:


> Can anyone recommend a short usb c to usb c cable to connect this as a dac or will any do?
> (No knowledge of transfer of audio over usb c).





cpaulik said:


> I'm using the Amazon basics USB c to USB c cable which comes in a 15cm (6in) version https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-Type-C-Charger-Cable/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr2_1?keywords=amazon+basics+usbctousbc&qid=1580564598&sprefix=amazon+basics+usb+c+to+&sr=8-1-fkmr2&th=1&psc=1


The 6" Amazon basics cable was a buck cheaper at the time, but I wanted a shorter cable and this one is 10cm (3.9"), $7.90 when I bought it, currently unavailable:

DD TC05 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6 10 cm
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJZBYVH/

Currently available here sold by DD, but it's $13.99:

DD TC05 TypeC to TypeC Audio Data Decoding Cable for Android phone to USB DAC&AMP device.
https://www.amazon.com/DD-TypeC-Audio-Decoding-Cable/dp/B07NZV515X

The DD TC05 looks to me like a shorter version of the FiiO LT-TC01 ($17.99) 50cm / 0.5m:

FiiO LT-TC1 TypeC to TypeC Audio Data Decoding Cable for K3/M9/M11/M5/BTR5
ttps://hifigo.com/collections/fiio/products/fiio-lt-tc1-typec-to-typec-audio-data-decoding-cable-for-fiio-k3-m9-m11-m5-btr5-btr3

It works great between the BTR5 and Note 10+.  It is directional, so if it "doesn't work", turn it around... the arrow directions need to point toward the BTR5.

For my use 10cm is nice to use right next to the phone.  I use a much longer USB A Male to USB A Female extension cable to the PC with the USB A Male to USB C Male tail to the BTR5 as provided by FiiO with the BTR5.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 18, 2020)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> I haven't been very active in this hobby lately so I was wondering did FiiO increased the Price of BTR5  from $100 to $150 USD?





dan said:


> I think not. This is more likely retailers responding to demand that has been repeatedly running through their stock. I was able to get my seller to match the 109. I paid for mine at the beginning of the year on a reorder for 2 more as gifts. 139 on Aliexpress.


When the BTR5 first came out I wondered the same thing as $99 was the rumored(?) price but it was pretty much $139-$150 everywhere, until it first hit Amazon and FiiO as a seller had the BTR5 at $109.99 - briefly, and that's the lowest I've seen it so far - right now it's unavailable on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZK3M6XK

So perhaps the BTR5 MSRP is $109.99?

Hifigo.com has it for $129.99 discounted from $139.99, but orders will queue up waiting for fulfillment (China):
https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-btr5-dual-es9218p-dac-native-dsd-decoding-bluetooth-amplifier

HiFiGo also has the BTR5 leather case by DD, you can get the DD logo (Red / Black) or the FiiO logo embossed (all Black), here's the DD Logo link - make sure to select the one you want before adding it to the cart.  Mine is waiting to ship.
https://hifigo.com/products/leather...th-adapter-cover-black?variant=31570124636209


----------



## ClieOS

hmscott said:


> So perhaps the BTR5 MSRP is $109.99?



There is no real MSRP for BTR5. FiiO doesn't set the final price and allows for the reseller to set their own price.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 19, 2020)

archy121 said:


> ...Now I need more time to evaluate using V30 via 3.5mm vs  connected over USB C to BTR5 2.5mm for highest quality listening experience.
> LDAC is working so well that it will have to be a fair improvement to bother going the USB C route  at all.


I agree, LDAC is great and APT-X isn't "bad", I don't mind switching back and forth between USB-C and BT when I am roaming.

I connect via USB-C to Note 10+ / PC when seated.  I have the BTR5 set to Prefer USB DAC so when I connect to USB C the BTR5 automatically switches back from BT to DAC. The BTR5 disconnects "seamlessly" switching to BT LDAC (phone) BT and APT-X (PC) when I roam.

I've A/B'd balanced and unbalanced KB Ear 16 core 2.5mm and 3.5mm - same cable spec - I prefer the balanced 2.5mm, and not only because of the higher volume.  I find the balanced 2.5mm has a wider sound image expanding outwards slightly more from my head side to side.

KB EAR 16 core silver cable with metal 2pin/MMCX/QDC Connector Use For TRN V90 BA5 KZ ZSX ZS10 PRO AS10 BLON BL-03 CCA C12 QDC
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33045414046.html

It depends on the source material too of course. For now I am listening with HD / Ultra HD on Amazon Music HD, Netflix, Youtube, Spotify, etc.  I've tried to switch back to 3.5mm, but I keep going back to 2.5mm balanced after a short time - balanced sounds better to me.

I have the Gain set to L most of the time, I prefer to have a little more play in the volume control.

Of note, I see 384k when I connect via USB-C to the phone but as soon as I play something the BTR5 shows 192k.

When connected via USB-C to the PC using the Sound Settings for the device entry for the BTR5 I can set the connection to 32 bit 384k and whatever I play it shows 384k on the BTR5.

At 16 bit 384k I can tell a distinct difference from 32 bit 384k - it sounds smoother at 32 bit or edgier / sharper in a not good way at 16 bit, similar differences at 192k 32/16 bit.  The BTR5 display tracks the changes showing 192k / 384k.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 19, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> There is no real MSRP for BTR5. FiiO doesn't set the final price and allows for the reseller to set their own price.


That's unusual, most companies set an MSRP and from that reference point let the market price be set by the re-seller's.

We customers and re-sellers need an MSRP to set a reference point as somewhere to start negotiating.

FiiO themselves as a retail seller on Amazon set the BTR5 price at $109.99, defining the Manufacturers Retail Price directly through actual sales. When FiiO are able to ship again I expect FiiO to re-open sales at the same $109.99, and the other sellers will need to adjust their prices to match - as long as FiiO has them in stock at that price.

It is the same for any company world-wide no just FiiO. There can be regional pricing to account for the variance in regional costs.

On Amazon US I expect to see US MSRP at most for all of the products I end up purchasing, I shop for lowest price from reliable sources, Amazon Prime primarily.  It's not unusual to see the newest products come out at elevated prices when they are in short supply, but I usually wait until I see them for at least MSRP before buying.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The MSRP at the official FiiO store in Germany is 119 €, if that helps.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 19, 2020)

Chris Kaoss said:


> The MSRP at the official FiiO store in Germany is 119 €, if that helps.


$128 USD - ~19% VAT(?) = $104 USD, a bit closer to $99.99 than $109.99 - was that price with VAT?  Does it come with anything else?:

On the USA side FiiO either sends me to their AliExpress FiiO shop and there is no BTR5 there at all.  Another USA FiiO link sends me to TaoBao, and the BTR5 shows "This item has been taken off the shelves", but the price there equates to $99.69-$122.62, at the higher price you get a Balanced 2.5mm or 3.5mm cable added - I guess they didn't notice only the 2.5mm on the BTR5 is balanced.

FiiO Store on Aliexpress, oddly it sends me to a German page => .DE., and there is no .EN., but I can click "Send me to Global Site (English)", and that's the 2nd link:
https://fiio.de.aliexpress.com/store/1473108
https://fiio.aliexpress.com/store/1473108?spm=a2g0o.store_home

FiiO store on TaoBao:
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=604099078511&scene=taobao_shop


----------



## pilgrimbilly (Feb 19, 2020)

Paid 1990 NOK ($200) for mine here in Norway, bought from the only stockist in the country I could find. Worth every krone.


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 19, 2020)

hmscott said:


> That's unusual, most companies set an MSRP and from that reference point let the market price be set by the re-seller's.  FiiO themselves as a retail seller on Amazon set the BTR5 price at $109.99, defining the Manufacturers Retail Selling Price directly.
> 
> We customers and re-sellers need an MSRP to set a reference point as somewhere to start negotiating.



If FiiO set a strict worldwide price, they need to consider that the price will need to be high enough so EU reseller is going to make enough money out of it after paying not just for BTR5 itself, but also import tax, international shipping fee as well all the hidden cost of running a business. But on the other hand, Ali express seller will not get affected as a higher price means they make much more money than EU seller (or they will lower the price to undercut EU seller). There is also the problem that Chinese buyers will actually pay a much higher price even though there isn't any tax or shipping fee.

While BTR5 itself is sold for the same price from FiiO to the all resellers, the cost of running a business for different resellers in different part of the world is not the same, so the only way to have an universal price is to set the price really high, which ends up hurting the consumers. FiiO on the other hand prefers to go the other way, allowing the reseller to set the final price that makes most sense to their targeted market group. For example, EU buyer might pay a higher price for EU reseller, but they get better / easier service in exchange. If EU buyer want to get a lower price and get it from China, then they knows they are not going to get as fast or easy a service as they will get from EU reseller. It will never be perfect regardless of whether FiiO allows or not allows the reseller to set their own price, just different in compromise.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

hmscott said:


> $128 USD - ~19% VAT(?) = $104 USD, a bit closer to $99.99 than $109.99 - was that price with VAT?  Does it come with anything else?:
> 
> On the USA side FiiO either sends me to their AliExpress FiiO shop and there is no BTR5 there at all.  Another USA FiiO link sends me to TaoBao, and the BTR5 shows "This item has been taken off the shelves", but the price there equates to $99.69-$122.62, at the higher price you get a Balanced 2.5mm or 3.5mm cable added - I guess they didn't notice only the 2.5mm on the BTR5 is balanced.
> 
> ...


Yes. It's the MSRP incl. 19%VAT and free shipping.
There's is just the usb a to c cable with it.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 19, 2020)

Here's the only one on Amazon atm. Not a good deal


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Typical amazon market place pricing while out of stock. ^^


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 19, 2020)

Chris Kaoss said:


> Typical amazon market place pricing while out of stock. ^^



Hoping a silly fish will bite 

At least they offer free shipping lol


----------



## HipHopScribe

ClieOS said:


> There is no real MSRP for BTR5. FiiO doesn't set the final price and allows for the reseller to set their own price.



I'm sure FiiO has an MSRP, which I assume varies by region, but an MSRP is only a suggestion (manufacturer’s suggested retail price), retailers are always free to price it lower or higher depending on demand (unless there's some additional contract in place to set the price)


----------



## psikey (Feb 19, 2020)

pilgrimbilly said:


> Paid 1990 NOK ($200) for mine here in Norway, bought from the only stockist in the country I could find. Worth every krone.



I paid £75 with a 15% discount off voucher from AMP3 UK so 887NOK ($95) so really worth it !


::Update::

Actually it was :

Sub-Total: £89.99 inc. vat & Supersaver 2 - 4 working days (Postage to United Kingdom)Discount Coupons: BFY152019:*-£13.50 *Total:*£76.49

Anybody got theirs cheaper ?*


----------



## sensenonno

Hello everyone, my PC does not have bluetooth. what is the best USB adaptor to buy in order to beam bluetooth to btr5?


----------



## abitdeef

I got mine for a dollar two ninety eight. 

Sorry guy don't know about BT adapters for PC, but you can go wired with usb very easy.


----------



## sensenonno

abitdeef said:


> I got mine for a dollar two ninety eight.
> 
> Sorry guy don't know about BT adapters for PC, but you can go wired with usb very easy.


yes sure. but sometimes I just want to walk around my flat to do things while having audio sent over bluetooth from pc.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 19, 2020)

sensenonno said:


> yes sure. but sometimes I just want to walk around my flat to do things while having audio sent over bluetooth from pc.



Got ya, should be easy to find a BT usb dongle I would think. Also you could load up a micro sd card with some favorite music and pop it in your phone and use that for BT.


----------



## sensenonno

abitdeef said:


> Got ya, should be easy to find a BT usb dongle I would think.



i found many of these small one and they are all bluetooth 4.0 and just don’t know if they will work without lagging ( for watching youtube mostly) . and their prices are all very low , not saying i want to buy an expensive fancy audiophile one but might want to spend a little more to make sure faster speed and may be with  better codecs.


----------



## archy121

hmscott said:


> I agree, LDAC is great and APT-X isn't "bad", I don't mind switching back and forth between USB-C and BT when I am roaming.
> 
> I connect via USB-C to Note 10+ / PC when seated.  I have the BTR5 set to Prefer USB DAC so when I connect to USB C the BTR5 automatically switches back from BT to DAC. The BTR5 disconnects "seamlessly" switching to BT LDAC (phone) BT and APT-X (PC) when I roam.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to make the extending reply. I concur the same differences using the BTR5 2.5 vs 3.5mm. Using the V30 3.5mm out is no longer a straight choice.

One thing - how did you set BTR5 to prefer USB-DAC ? 
I would also love to see Charge mode left to Off by default.

I’m still on firmware 1.04 and wondering if it’s to do with that.


----------



## abitdeef

sensenonno said:


> i found many of these small one and they are all bluetooth 4.0 and just don’t know if they will work without lagging ( for watching youtube mostly) . and their prices are all very low , not saying i want to buy an expensive fancy audiophile one but might want to spend a little more to make sure faster speed and may be with  better codecs.



I see what you mean, all the ones I saw were version 4.0, and some are just receivers. This one had good ratings and there is a 40 dollar creative one, but it has average ratings.

For close proximity I would say these should be fine.


----------



## abitdeef

sensenonno said:


> i found many of these small one and they are all bluetooth 4.0 and just don’t know if they will work without lagging ( for watching youtube mostly) . and their prices are all very low , not saying i want to buy an expensive fancy audiophile one but might want to spend a little more to make sure faster speed and may be with  better codecs.



Actually that one looks good and is even cheaper with decent reviews.


----------



## abitdeef

archy121 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to make the extending reply. I concur the same differences using the BTR5 2.5 vs 3.5mm. Using the V30 3.5mm out is no longer a straight choice.
> 
> One thing - how did you set BTR5 to prefer USB-DAC ?
> I would also love to see Charge mode left to Off by default.
> ...



You can set those features with the fiio companion app (fiio control) or fiio music.


----------



## lucasd

Does Charge off means it runs fully on battery, or it just does not charge but takes power to play?


----------



## 435279

lucasd said:


> Does Charge off means it runs fully on battery, or it just does not charge but takes power to play?



Good question, I bet its one of those options, probably.


----------



## abitdeef

It means it runs fully on battery and doesn't charge.


----------



## 435279

abitdeef said:


> It means it runs fully on battery and doesn't charge.


So the battery will run flat after a few hours?


----------



## abitdeef

SteveOliver said:


> So the battery will run flat after a few hours?



Yes after say 7 on balanced or 9 SE roughly. The default resets it after shutting it off and then turning it on it will charge again. So you can turn it off on the btr5 itself when you're using USB, but then the next time you use it - it will charge from USB. 

Handy if you don't want it to suck power from your phone. Or you can leave it charge and wirelessly charge you phone and have it charge the fiio also.

Of course using BT it just runs down, unless hooked to power such as a power bank and charging is allowed. The thing doesn't have the longest battery life but it's easy and quick to charge.


----------



## rafaelo

abitdeef said:


> It means it runs fully on battery and doesn't charge.


Which is essential in order to work with iPhone. Otherwise you get the infamous usb draws too much power message.


----------



## abitdeef

rafaelo said:


> Which is essential in order to work with iPhone. Otherwise you get the infamous usb draws too much power message.



Really? Never tried anything usb with my iPhone. I'm using galaxy 10 now and it charges it fine. 

Apples little quirks I guess.


----------



## rafaelo

abitdeef said:


> Really? Never tried anything usb with my iPhone. I'm using galaxy 10 now and it charges it fine.
> 
> Apples little quirks I guess.


This is why only 3rd generation dragonflies work with iPhone and not old generation. 

The thing is though that with my iPhone both the Bluetooth (not producing audio but is still connected) and the usb is working the same time so battery from btr5 depletes considerably faster in that mode.


----------



## abitdeef

rafaelo said:


> This is why only 3rd generation dragonflies work with iPhone and not old generation.
> 
> The thing is though that with my iPhone both the Bluetooth (not producing audio but is still connected) and the usb is working the same time so battery from btr5 depletes considerably faster in that mode.



That's weird, usb mode should cancel out bluetooth, it should be displaying the bit depth rate, otherwise it's not putting out usb audio, it's using bluetooth for audio even though it's plugged in. 

Like if I don't have the right usb driver working it will show ldac even though it's plugged into usb audio. The player (hiby, uapp) also shows usb connected.


----------



## Aevum (Feb 19, 2020)

got mine today,

Not sure if my unit is defective, with a pair of UE900S im getting listening volume at 45 (low gain) with the normal unbalanced cable, but i could not get sound out of the balanced 2.5, is there something special i have to do to get audio out of balanced ?


----------



## The Madhouse

This is my first post on this forum, so hello to all! 
After reading for years over here i think it is time to start talking. 
After reading about thé fiio btr5 i ordered one. In thé Meanwhile i started reading this thread from thé first Page, and yesterday i finisched thé last Page and today my btr5 arrived. I can't be more happy! 
Using it balanced with tin hifi t3's and it's amazing, i have a balanced cable coming in for my kz zs10pro's, and there is a pair of blon bl3's with ballanced cable on there way to( yes i know, i'm becomming a cheap chifi fan  ) 
After reading allmost all post here i have a few things i want to ad of ask: 
-I read that with android you have to select Ldac everytime you connect thé device, but i don't have to do that, it stays on Ldac even when disconnect or reboot (using Motorola G7 plus!) 
-it looks that the btr5 does not Remember thé DAC clock divider level , setting it with thé fiio control app, and it randomly switches, it stays on 1 if i select it sometimes, then it's back to 1/4, don't understand why it changes. Is this a known bug?( Trying to use 1 all thé time, battery life is not important because i have a big 20.000mah battery pack). 
-is there a website where i can check for thé latest fiio control app? I downloaded from thé link in a post in this thread, but is i search Google i don't find anything about it? 

Thanks for all thé advice and tips over here! Helped me a lot!!!!


----------



## rafaelo (Feb 19, 2020)

I mean that the usb is playing music but the Bluetooth is still connected to the phone for the fiio app so battery is used twice as much. I use also clock divider to one so battery life is mediocre that way. I think battery life is much better when I use only Bluetooth AAC with my iPhone.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The Madhouse said:


> -I read that with android you have to select Ldac everytime you connect thé device, but i don't have to do that, it stays on Ldac even when disconnect or reboot (using Motorola G7 plus!)
> -it looks that the btr5 does not Remember thé DAC clock divider level , setting it with thé fiio control app, and it randomly switches, it stays on 1 if i select it sometimes, then it's back to 1/4, don't understand why it changes. Is this a known bug?/QUOTE]
> 
> 1.
> ...


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 19, 2020)

rafaelo said:


> I mean that the usb is playing music but the Bluetooth is still connected to the phone for the fiio app so battery is used twice as much. I use also clock divider to one so battery life is mediocre that way. I think battery life is much better when I use only Bluetooth AAC with my iPhone.



Yes I use it on 1 clock setting and that connection to the app should be nominal, your not streaming music data. Mine is pretty much the same using USB so idk. 
But it definitely shouldn't be using twice as much for that app connection, I get about 7 or so hours out of the balanced out either way - BT or USB.

Of course if my phone is charging, then I turn charging on. Of course I'm using ldac which probably uses more juice than aac.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

archy121 said:


> Did you get around to comparing the two ?


I'm so sorry.
I wanted to make the comparison but stucked immetiatly with listening to music. ^^
. . . 4 hours later . . . 


Did a brief listening with my Monitor 5.

V30 with UAPP in bit perfect, high gain and "sharp" filter, btr5 connected via usb to the V30, on balanced with charging off and "fast" filter.
V30 on volume 45, btr 5 on 30.

First, i do need more time to evaluate.
It's a tough race.
Can't really say that the btr5 is superior to the V30.
There're sonic differences, i guess.

It's very hard to fit all parameters exactly.
A small slight of the headphone, wether front or back, will alter the perceived frequencies.
In such a close call, it's gonna make a hugh difference.

Will repeat my listening comparison with Btr 5 connected to my Surface Pro 7 on weekend.


----------



## hifi80sman

Anyone here also have the Shanling UP4?  I just received mine today, and I gotta say, first impressions are (on my DT 1770 PRO) clarity and imaging are better on the UP4.  There definitely sounds to be more roll off in the top end on the BTR5.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 19, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone here also have the Shanling UP4?  I just received mine today, and I gotta say, first impressions are (on my DT 1770 PRO) clarity and imaging are better on the UP4.  There definitely sounds to be more roll off in the top end on the BTR5.



Is that usb mode? From the couple of comparisons I've read between the 2 they said the up4 was warmer. Honestly the treble on my btr5 is very extended. Lol now I want to compare.

And is that balanced mode? It's funny how we all hear things differently- this is the only amazon review of up4- I do like the shanling control wheel though.


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 19, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Is that usb mode? From the couple of comparisons I've read between the 2 they said the up4 was warmer. Honestly the treble on my btr5 is very extended. Lol now I want to compare.
> 
> And is that balanced mode? It's funny how we all hear things differently- this is the only amazon review of up4- I do like the shanling control wheel though.


I'm still in my early stages of listening to the UP4 on "Boost" gain mode (there's Low, High, and Boost) via Bluetooth (LDAC) and right now, I'm just running 3.5mm unbalanced with my DT 1770 PRO (250 ohms).  I'll probably go balanced later with my ATH-MSR7b (with 8 core 4.4mm to 2.5mm balanced adapter).

Listening to some remastered Elton John stuff, the UP4 just sounds a bit more "lively".

I have not tried USB mode yet.


----------



## abitdeef

hifi80sman said:


> I'm still in my early stages of listening to the UP4 on "Boost" gain mode (there's Low, High, and Boost) via Bluetooth (LDAC) and right now, I'm just running 3.5mm unbalanced with my DT 1770 PRO (250 ohms).  I'll probably go balanced later with my ATH-MSR7b (with 8 core 4.4mm to 2.5mm balanced adapter).
> 
> Listening to some remastered Elton John stuff, the UP4 just sounds a bit more "lively".
> 
> I have not tried USB mode yet.



Ahh, I've heard that the boost mode on the 3.5 on the shanling is a dual dac mode while the fiio is using only one dac on 3.5. Maybe that's the difference, I like the balanced out quite a bit more than the SE out on btr5.


----------



## hifi80sman

abitdeef said:


> Ahh, I've heard that the boost mode on the 3.5 on the shanling is a dual dac mode while the fiio is using only one dac on 3.5. Maybe that's the difference, I like the balanced out quite a bit more than the SE out on btr5.


I think you're right on the 3.5mm mode.  I can definitely say 3.5mm unbalanced is superior on the UP4.

2.5mm balanced does sound a touch more sparkle on the UP4 using my ATH-MSR7b, but a little smoother on the BTR5.  Really, user preference here, especially depending on the type of headphones you're using.  For the ATH-MSR7b, the UP4 can get fatiguing after a while, compared with the BTR5, which is smoother.


----------



## The Madhouse (Feb 20, 2020)

need a litle help,
i broke something i guess 
playing around in the app and on the device itself.
the problem now is that the output on bluetooth is realy ''low''
in the beginning on low gain +- 25 was realy loud, now i can crank it up all the way(and on high gain!)
and its still loud, but nothing compared to what it was before.
if i connect it with cable to pc its still normal, so unit does not seem broken.
tried different phone, problem is the same.
tried reboot and restoring with the app, nothing helps.
quality of the audio is also lacking, connected true laptop it still gives me the WOW factor
with bluetooth its just....ok .



thanks for thinking with me  

edit: found some weird ''feature'' holding down multi button and volume down gives a system sound, and then audio goes realy loud (normal) again, holding both again gives lower sound volume. weird.... so for now ''fixed''


----------



## hmscott (Feb 21, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Anyone here also have the Shanling UP4?  I just received mine today, and I gotta say, first impressions are (on my DT 1770 PRO) clarity and imaging are better on the UP4.  There definitely sounds to be more roll off in the top end on the BTR5.


Is that on both L/H Gain on the BTR5?  On some headphones the Low Gain seems weak even though the volume is fine, and switching to High Gain makes the sound "fill out" the sound stage.  Hard to explain, it's something you have to play with on each set of headphones.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Is the included USB-C cable for charging only or data transfer also?

I can't get the BTR5 to connect to my S9+ phone. I have set the priority in the music app as USB DAC. 

I previously had a iFi hip-dac and that was able to connect to my phone without a problem.


----------



## abitdeef

KamijoIsMyHero said:


> Is the included USB-C cable for charging only or data transfer also?
> 
> I can't get the BTR5 to connect to my S9+ phone. I have set the priority in the music app as USB DAC.
> 
> I previously had a iFi hip-dac and that was able to connect to my phone without a problem.



Are you using usb 1 or 2  setting?  Both settings work with the fiio app and the hiby app. I used the included cable with an adapter and it worked fine. What music app are you using?


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

abitdeef said:


> Are you using usb 1 or 2  setting?  Both settings work with the fiio app and the hiby app. I used the included cable with an adapter and it worked fine. What music app are you using?



I set to USB 1.0

I used the adapter that came with my phone also  on the included cable.

The music app I am using is foobar and I also tried the FiiO music app.

I also tried with and without the 'Charge' enabled.

I pretty much followed their tutorial on youtube, the only thing I noticed different with my setup is the cable they used so I was suspecting that was the issue. But since you are able to use the cable, I guess it is something else. Thanks.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 20, 2020)

KamijoIsMyHero said:


> I set to USB 1.0
> 
> I used the adapter that came with my phone also  on the included cable.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear that, wish I could be more help. The usb out sounds great off my 10E. Did you try it from PC by any chance?


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

abitdeef said:


> Sorry to hear that, wish I could be more help. The usb out sounds great off my 10E. Did you try it from PC by any chance?




Actually, I figured it out and it was the cable after all. I took a friends cable that came with their Pixel and that one worked. Looks like I have to go get a cable that is more up to spec.

Yes, I tried with a PC and it worked. Thanks


----------



## abitdeef

KamijoIsMyHero said:


> Actually, I figured it out and it was the cable after all. I took a friends cable that came with their Pixel and that one worked. Looks like I have to go get a cable that is more up to spec.
> 
> Yes, I tried with a PC and it worked. Thanks



Good to hear you got it sorted, I was using and OTG adapter, don't know if that made a difference. Since then I got a C to C cable.


----------



## Hamlap

So, I'm tempted between a BTR5 and a DAP like the Fiio M6 or anything a bit better like the Onkyo DP-X1. How would one of those compare to using a BTR5 with my phone as a player? SQ is the most important for me.


----------



## abitdeef

Hamlap said:


> So, I'm tempted between a BTR5 and a DAP like the Fiio M6 or anything a bit better like the Onkyo DP-X1. How would one of those compare to using a BTR5 with my phone as a player? SQ is the most important for me.



I had the m6 and the m11 and I had the q5s with the thx amp. The m6 just doesn't come close to the clarity, dynamics and holographic big soundstage of the BTR5. The BTR5 sounds flagship quality, unless you're trying to drive like hd600 or some planers to their full potential. 

Then something with more power is going to make those types of cans sound better.  But if you're driving something that's not too demanding or iems then this thing is right up there with say Sony wm1a or say paw 6000 which I just had. 

The btr5 is very close to neutral which some might not like. They might prefer a warmer source. It's still got a little warmth, it's not as flat as paw 6000, but it has great control and dynamics. Really no weak points other than that stuff has more power. Well most of it. I prefer the sound of btr5 even to m11 myself. 

Now this is using balanced out and high gain and I mostly listen to usb out. Although ldac sounds spectacular. I think the balanced out sounds better than the SE out but to me that still sounds better than m6- which is a nice little dap. 

But lol I can hook up the btr5 to my pc or phone and crank it a bit and it sounds as good as any dap or amp I've used with my gear. I'm using meze classics, akt8ieii, and blon 3. 

Now I do have senn hd600 and they sound pretty damn good through the balanced out... but well the mojo or even the q5s or ifi xdsd makes them sound better/fuller- especially the mojo. Hence the difference of being 'loud' enough and driven properly.


----------



## hifi80sman

abitdeef said:


> I had the m6 and the m11 and I had the q5s with the thx amp. The m6 just doesn't come close to the clarity, dynamics and holographic big soundstage of the BTR5. The BTR5 sounds flagship quality, unless you're trying to drive like hd600 or some planers to their full potential.
> 
> Then something with more power is going to make those types of cans sound better.  But if you're driving something that's not too demanding or iems then this thing is right up there with say Sony wm1a or say paw 6000 which I just had.
> 
> ...


What's your feedback on the BTR5 vs the Q5s for headphones 100 ohms or less?  I was looking at the Q5s as an upgrade, but $350 is expensive for negligible gains.


----------



## Hamlap

abitdeef said:


> I had the m6 and the m11 and I had the q5s with the thx amp. The m6 just doesn't come close to the clarity, dynamics and holographic big soundstage of the BTR5. The BTR5 sounds flagship quality, unless you're trying to drive like hd600 or some planers to their full potential.
> 
> Then something with more power is going to make those types of cans sound better.  But if you're driving something that's not too demanding or iems then this thing is right up there with say Sony wm1a or say paw 6000 which I just had.
> 
> ...


Alright! So skip the M6 probably and wait for the BTR5. 

Whay about higher priced DAP's, like the older Onkyo DP-X1? (I can get that one for about €100, in good state)


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 21, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> What's your feedback on the BTR5 vs the Q5s for headphones 100 ohms or less?  I was looking at the Q5s as an upgrade, but $350 is expensive for negligible gains.



No upgrade unless you're going to get the thx module and that's maybe just touch wider and fuller. Not at 100 ohms or less. 

If I take out emotional bias of greater price equals better sound and don't listen to the craziness of made up audio terms that some reviews use now, and just 'listen' the btr5 doesn't lack anywhere. 

There wasn't anything on the 1200 dollar daps I used that sounded 'better' than btr5- they didn't reveal any more details or have a better soundstage or imaging or better dynamics or a more realistic tone. 

So I'm using the btr5, if I was blindfolded and volumes were matched perfectly I 
doubt I could tell a difference with my gear. Unless it was something like m6, m0, that had a much narrower soundstage or something coloured like say the mids of an AK then I probably could tell... maybe  

If I want a different sound sig I change cans or eq a bit. 

I guess I'm the wrong person to compare anymore. I just try to not let reviews, specs or marketing hoopla influence me emotionally. If I have to listen 'carefully' for differences and this and that, then my mind and bias is probably helping things along a bit. 

Also it does depend on the iems and cans too I do think some colorations and sonic signatures gel better with some cans and iems better. 

Always best to listen yourself with your own gear. 

Didn't mean to go off the rails lol.

I should probably sum up with after trying a ton of gear over the last year, I don't see any reason to spend more than the btr5- My phone has a better faster UI than any dap and I can stream anything with it. With the btr5 it's an awesome combo.


----------



## abitdeef

Hamlap said:


> Alright! So skip the M6 probably and wait for the BTR5.
> 
> Whay about higher priced DAP's, like the older Onkyo DP-X1? (I can get that one for about €100, in good state)



That's one dap I've never heard, I'm weird, and that's just too big of a dap for me. I've heard it sounds top notch though. But I also think the btr5 sounds top notch also  

That's probably a really good price for the Onkyo though.


----------



## hifi80sman

abitdeef said:


> No upgrade unless you're going to get the thx module and that's maybe just touch wider and fuller. Not at 100 ohms or less.
> 
> If I take out emotional bias of greater price equals better sound and don't listen to the craziness of made up audio terms that some reviews use now, and just 'listen' the btr5 doesn't lack anywhere.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the feedback.  The Q5s looks attractive, but your impressions kind of fall along the lines of my initial hesitation to pull the trigger for questionable gains.

I'm perfectly content with the BTR5 (2.5mm balanced) and UP4 (3.5mm dual DAC mode) paired with my Sony MDR-Z7M2 (56 ohms).


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 21, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> That's one dap I've never heard, I'm weird, and that's just too big of a dap for me. I've heard it sounds top notch though. But I also think the btr5 sounds top notch also
> 
> That's probably a really good price for the Onkyo though.





hifi80sman said:


> Appreciate the feedback.  The Q5s looks attractive, but your impressions kind of fall along the lines of my initial hesitation to pull the trigger for questionable gains.
> 
> I'm perfectly content with the BTR5 (2.5mm balanced) and UP4 (3.5mm dual DAC mode) paired with my Sony MDR-Z7M2 (56 ohms).



They're very close sonically especially with the stock amp module. I can't think of any practical upgrade other them some added mw- which you and I don't need.

Don't know how I quoted myself lol.


----------



## SBranson

I’m having a lot of issues with the BTR5 shutting down randomly when I pause.  There seems to be no pattern but sometimes when I pause it powers down.  Sometimes I can just start it but more often than not I have to plug it in to power and after several minutes it seems to reset and start charging.  Once that happens I can turn it back on again.  It’s never powered off while listening just pausing.  The auto power off isn’t working as I’ve had it set at 20mins and some days it never powers off regardless of being on pause for a couple hours.
I’m on firmware 1.0.4 and thought of upgrading to the 1.0.6 but saw on the FiiO site forum that someone has had stability issues with similar symptoms to mine after the upgrade.  I guess I have nothing to lose.
Anyone else have any ideas?
I’m really getting concerned that soon it’s just going to stop responding at all.  Pretty expensive and disappointing since it’s only 2 months old.


----------



## hifi80sman

SBranson said:


> I’m having a lot of issues with the BTR5 shutting down randomly when I pause.  There seems to be no pattern but sometimes when I pause it powers down.  Sometimes I can just start it but more often than not I have to plug it in to power and after several minutes it seems to reset and start charging.  Once that happens I can turn it back on again.  It’s never powered off while listening just pausing.  The auto power off isn’t working as I’ve had it set at 20mins and some days it never powers off regardless of being on pause for a couple hours.
> I’m on firmware 1.0.4 and thought of upgrading to the 1.0.6 but saw on the FiiO site forum that someone has had stability issues with similar symptoms to mine after the upgrade.  I guess I have nothing to lose.
> Anyone else have any ideas?
> I’m really getting concerned that soon it’s just going to stop responding at all.  Pretty expensive and disappointing since it’s only 2 months old.


I would update to the most recent firmware.  If you're still having the issue, you can try a replacement/return (if you can of course) and perhaps go with the Shanling UP4, which IMO is superior if you're running 3.5mm (it has dual DAC mode for 3.5mm connection).

I did have the BTR5 shut off a couple of times, but I lost track on how long it was idle, so I can't say for sure if it was the auto-off feature functioning correctly or not.


----------



## psikey

KamijoIsMyHero said:


> I set to USB 1.0
> 
> I used the adapter that came with my phone also  on the included cable.
> 
> ...


----------



## psikey

abitdeef said:


> No upgrade unless you're going to get the thx module and that's maybe just touch wider and fuller. Not at 100 ohms or less.
> 
> If I take out emotional bias of greater price equals better sound and don't listen to the craziness of made up audio terms that some reviews use now, and just 'listen' the btr5 doesn't lack anywhere.
> 
> ...


Agree fully with this. BTR5 is amazing and unbelievable value for money IMO. I've stopped looking at other DAPs/DACs now.


----------



## SBranson

hifi80sman said:


> I would update to the most recent firmware.  If you're still having the issue, you can try a replacement/return (if you can of course) and perhaps go with the Shanling UP4, which IMO is superior if you're running 3.5mm (it has dual DAC mode for 3.5mm connection).
> 
> I did have the BTR5 shut off a couple of times, but I lost track on how long it was idle, so I can't say for sure if it was the auto-off feature functioning correctly or not.


I have a Mac so I’ll have to get to a pc to update but I’ll post if it helps or not.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 22, 2020)

FYI - when I listen through the BTR5 on both PC USB DAC / BT and Note 10+ USB DAC / BT I use 100% drive from both digital sources - which means I set the PC / phone "volume" to 100% volume.

That results in the BTR5 listening volume for me at around 17 on High Gain, and 24 on Low Gain - more or less depending on the source.

I don't hear any distortion at 100% volume driven from these PC / Phone sources, and I also tried 80% / 90% / 95% to see if I could detect any noise or distortion being introduced on the way up to the 100% drive setting, and no I didn't hear any.

I've learned over time to find the maximum drive setting that doesn't distort or add noise to drive my amplifier or DAC or BT receiver as that improves the resulting sound to my headphones.  I've found through experience that you can't evaluate a device like the BTR5 without providing the best source level to drive it.

I keep the source device output steady at close to 100% (below it's distortion point) and use the BTR5 volume adjustment to control the output to the headphones, and when I give my listening opinion it's based on those settings.

A weak drive input from a source at say 50% or less will provide a weak signal for the BTR5 to work with and the resulting output of the BTR5 will also be weak.

You can try it for yourself.  Turn down the BTR volume to say 15 on L or H Gain, and set the source device volume as high as it will go without distortion - from a digital source that should be 100% on well designed devices.

Set a comfortable listening volume on the BTR5 with your headphones.  Now turn down the source volume to 50%.  You can barely hear it.

When evaluating devices like the BTR5, make sure your source device is fully driving the BTR5, otherwise you will get a weak output result from the BTR5 into your headphones.

I realize many (most?) of you already know this and have learned it over your many years of being an audiophile, but I recently saw a poorly done review of the BTR5 and similar devices where among other simple mistakes, he set his source devices to 50% drive output and then complained that all of reviewed devices had low output to his headphones.

Yes, the reviewer actually did and said that.  Of course I can't trust anything he said but he said it with such ignorant conviction that I'm sure it convinced some listeners to believe him about everything he said.

Sadly his obvious inexperience in using and configuring his hardware under review resulted in his condemnation of all the devices under review.  He was audibly frustrated during his presentation because things weren't working right, and finally admitted as much.

It was most unpleasant listening to his review, so heads up.


----------



## Hanesu (Feb 22, 2020)

Was this video already posted in this thread?



Though I am still really enjoying my Btr5, I must say that his criticism is 100% accurate!

I had exactly the same app problems with iOS as him and I agree that the differences in SQ between the different BT devices are minor and more based on preferences.
I can also add that after using it for almost 2 months now, I have experienced some Bluetooth problems. As many other BT devices, Btr5 has problems if you pair more than 3 devices with it.

So yes, it might be overhyped.
Still really like its built quality, design in combination with its balanced signature (less v-shaped than es100). But lots to do for Fiio concerning the app!


----------



## abitdeef

hmscott said:


> FYI - when I listen through the BTR5 on both PC USB DAC / BT and Note 10+ USB DAC / BT I use 100% drive from both digital sources - which means I set the PC / phone "volume" to 100% volume.
> 
> That results in the BTR5 listening volume for me at around 17 on High Gain, and 24 on Low Gain - more or less.
> 
> ...



What review? And I always turn my source up to 100%


----------



## hmscott (Feb 22, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> What review? And I always turn my source up to 100%


Yeah, exactly, who doesn't do that ?

If you don't already, please give it a try now.

This review:


Hanesu said:


> Was this video already posted in this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really didn't want to post the review - I'd suffered enough listening to it once and wanted to warn off anyone else from suffering through it too.

Then I thought I might post my experience with setting the source output to 100% to get the best sound, in case there was anyone out there ready to hear it and benefit from it.

Thanks to @Hanesu for posting the link to the review.


----------



## Hanesu (Feb 22, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Yeah, exactly, who doesn't do that ?
> 
> If you don't already, please give it a try now.
> 
> ...



Sorry, think you edited your post right when I wrote mine


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 22, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Yeah, exactly, who doesn't do that ?  If you don't already, give it a try now.
> 
> This review:
> 
> ...




Yes, he's way off on a number of things, first when I plug mine in to power it just starts charging- it doesn't turn on, second it's not the least bit muddy and the bass resolution is fantastic. 

He lost me at ES100 sounds analytical. I almost think this is just one of those 'counter' reviews to stir things up. Now the app idk because I rarely use it and the settings stay changed on the btr5. I'm sure there's improvements that can be made.

Now the ES100 eq is better, but I'm using the post eq of neutron or hiby music if I need it anyways. And I haven't needed it so lol. 

Hey to each their own but this just seems to scream - hey I'm a different edgy kind of reviewer. We already got that with hbb  and I trust hbb way more than this guy. 

Hard to take it serious, best thing always- try it yourself with your gear if possible.

It's all personal opinions, I hate it when people make blank statements like x is better than z or y sounds muddy lol without prefacing it with 'in my opinion' or 'to my ears' 

And then with no details like, what output were you using what material (music) were you using to test? What cans or iems were you using? 

I'd like the reviewer to furnish all that info and the particular part of the song that he thought the bass sounded muddy so I can hear it for my self. 

Instead of making blanket statements- it doesn't sound better than any other bluetooth unit and it sounds muddy.


----------



## Hanesu (Feb 24, 2020)

Hanesu said:


> Can’t follow you. Suffering from listening to the Btr5 or listening to the review?





abitdeef said:


> Yes, he's way off on a number of things, first when I plug mine in to power it just starts charging- it doesn't turn on, second it's not the least bit muddy and the bass resolution is fantastic.
> 
> He lost me at ES100 sounds analytical. I almost think this is just one of those 'counter' reviews to stir things up. Now the app idk because I rarely use it and the settings stay changed on the btr5. I'm sure there's improvements that can be made.
> 
> ...



The automatic “switch on” thing, I was wondering the same!
Actually my Btr5 unit SOMETIMES does it - but I have not found out when! It’s weird! But better than ES100 that always does it (even when switched off in the settings ) and I hate it!

Sound: It’s always difficult to know how people use “analytical” and “musical” etc. because it’s all so relative.Have you heard ES100 and Btr5 side by side? I actually agree that ES100 sounds a bit splashier in the treble. But due to more recessed mids.

I agree with most of his findings (ok, not the “muddy” one), though I feel his conclusion is too negative. I agree with that all those BT devices are actually very similar. They all have their goods and bads and none of them is perfect.
But one thing for sure: They are better than many people who listen to 2000$ DAPs think!


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Feb 22, 2020)

Hanesu said:


> Was this video already posted in this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The only thing i'd agree with the reviewer is the really bad software from FiiO.
Is there just a control suite like softwarefor Btr5? Like the app of the ES100?
I don't want the whole music app bc uapp handles this stuff better.

Such reviews delivers another view to the product i like from my perspective.
And i'm thankful to this to prevent me from getting lost at several product. ^^

Got the ES100 before but the build quality was the worst of all bluetooth amps i've tried. And the battery died 2 months after purchase.
That's the reason i hooked up to the Btr5 and i'm pleased with it. 

Edit.
I always drive all bluetooth device at 100% source volume.
No matter it's on the desk, in the car or elsewhere.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 22, 2020)

Hanesu said:


> The automatic “switch on” thing, I was wondering the same!
> Actually my Btr5 unit SOMETIMES does it - but I have not found out when!ES100 always does it (even when switched off in the settings ) and I hate it!
> 
> Sound: It’s always difficult to know how people use “analytical” and “musical” etc. because it’s all so relative.Have you heard ES100 and Btr5 side by side? I actually agree that Btr5 sounds a bit splashier in the treble. But due to more recessed mids.
> ...



See my edited post, yes I've listened to both , but as stated before I mostly USB out and balanced. Which does sound different to bt transmission. I personally don't consider the ES100 anywhere near analytical myself. 

Yes it's all subjective  

I forget sometimes myself, but I do try to include an adverb such as personally,  or too me or to my ears etc etc.

Anyways the statement about the sub bass being buried is idiotic. Most sub bass frequencies are more felt than heard by air pressure being moved by the diaphragm. 

The statement makes no sense really.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 22, 2020)

Hanesu said:


> Sorry, think you edited your post right when I wrote mine


Actually, I completed my post before I saw your post.  I originally described how I set the levels on source devices when listening to the BTR5 - in reaction to having watched the review a few moments before as I was browsing through youtube for BTR5 reviews - I didn't mention the review itself.

After I saw you posted the review I updated my previous post to relate my comments as inspired by that review.

I was trying to avoid setting off a discussion of the review itself.  I'm a little tired and I didn't want to "get into it" right now...

I'll stand watch quietly from over here, and listen to my BTR5...


----------



## ClieOS (Feb 22, 2020)

Hanesu said:


> Was this video already posted in this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




From the video, at around 2.45m the guy talks about the lack of battery life and how FiiO doesn't tell people how the battery life is tested - he is wrong. The test condition as well as the test file are in the 'parameters' section of FiiO's BTR5 page. He also said ES100 has the worst battery life - well, maybe his ES100 battery is dying. I tested both BTR5 and ES100 (besides other) under thae same condition for battery and ES100 actually has one of the best battery life over all the recent Hi-res BT adapters.

Around 4:00m, he said there isn't any distortion on any of the BT adapter he tested. I too owns all 4 that he has and I can tell you UP4 has very noticeable distortion on the original firmware (I can hear it clearly, without the need of measurement to tell that the sound is distorted). The latest firmware fixed most of the issue, but noise level is well above the other three. It is not as noticeable now, but you can still tell the sound is slightly off if you listen to it critically. In any case, I did measure all of them before (with RMAA on  Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 and Quant Asylum QA400 audio analyzer) , BTR5 consistently gives the best result and UP4 the worst among the 4.

At 7:35m, he talked about BTR5 turns on fully when plugged in and won't turn off after unplug - this is not that case of my BTR5 - when I plug mine in (while it is still off), it doesn't turn fully back on. Instead, only a charging battery icon is shown on the OLED screen (for about 10 seconds). Once unplug, it goes back to fully off.

At 9:38m he talks about the '0~60 steps' way of showing volume makes no sense and rather FiiO should tell us what dB it is charging - unfortunately dB doesn't work that way. First, if we assume by decibel, he means dB as actual volume (SPL) change. The dB change will be different with different headphone as they are all different in impedance and most importantly sensitivity - The volume switch on BTR5 mainly controls the voltage output. The same voltage change will result in different volume / dB change if the different headphones don't have the same spec.  Second, if we assume he means decibel as in output power ratio -  which still won't work as we need to have a common reference load (that means we need to use the same headphone). All and all showing 'dB' on the screen, while nice to read, is a pointless idea as it won't actually tell you the actual dB change, either in volume or in power ratio.

There is also the issue of keeping the iPhone volume on 50% for testing, potentially losing a few digital bits - that has been covered by others so I am not going to spend time on it. My question is however when he complained about low volume - did he even know about the gain setting on BTR5 (or even UP4)? Comparing output volume (NOT POWER, which is not how loud can something sound) with one high and one low gain setting will be a huge fail for any audio gears reviewer - and I suspect it could be the case here.

I do however give the reviewer some credit on complain the app - I said this in the past that FiiO really needs a separated app for its BT devices and should not try to integrate everything into one app. We Android user do already have a separated app (even if it only in beta) but unfortunately not for your Apple user.

Anyone can review, but it takes a knowledgeable person to be a good reviewer. Sometime it is about knowing how to talk about things that you understand, while other time it is about knowing what not to talk about, especially on things you don't understand enough of. I think many reviewer have it too easy these days,


----------



## SBranson

hifi80sman said:


> I would update to the most recent firmware.  If you're still having the issue, you can try a replacement/return (if you can of course) and perhaps go with the Shanling UP4, which IMO is superior if you're running 3.5mm (it has dual DAC mode for 3.5mm connection).
> 
> I did have the BTR5 shut off a couple of times, but I lost track on how long it was idle, so I can't say for sure if it was the auto-off feature functioning correctly or not.



I updated to the latest firmware last night and had no shut off problems today.  Fingers crossed that this issue is fixed.

I did encounter another though.  There were a couple times where the music just paused randomly between songs.  None of the controls on the BTR5 did anything but pausing and unpausing on my phone got the song to start up again but sometimes in the middle of the song.  Strange but much less of a concern than the previous issue.


----------



## hifi80sman

SBranson said:


> I updated to the latest firmware last night and had no shut off problems today.  Fingers crossed that this issue is fixed.
> 
> I did encounter another though.  There were a couple times where the music just paused randomly between songs.  None of the controls on the BTR5 did anything but pausing and unpausing on my phone got the song to start up again but sometimes in the middle of the song.  Strange but much less of a concern than the previous issue.


You may want to try un-pairing, restarting your phone, then re-paring.  I've had success doing that with some other BT devices I have.  It's also a good idea to restart your phone on a regular basis, especially if you're running on Android.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 23, 2020)

My BTR5 came with 1.04, I upgraded to 1.06 first thing - early days with devices usually require a few updates to get the bugs worked out.

I haven't had any operational weirdness in 100 hours+ usage on Note 10+ (BT 5.0) or Windows 10 (BT 4.2), mostly on USB but lots of BT as well.

The App use through the combined Music app is a pain.  It didn't take long for me to figure out what settings I want and eventually I got them saved and I don't go into the Control app any longer.  Changes through the interface on the BTR5 - like gain are enough once I got the in app settings to stick.

Here's my settings, and FYI the app connected on it's own without prompting from me and shows Codecs so it's a good connection, it must have heard me complaining about it 

Charge: Always
Car mode: Off
Idle Poweroff: 3 min
I don't mind powering on as I usually have constant music or audio except when I am done, after which it can turn off quickly.  If you don't like powering on after idle power off then I'd set it to Off (0) and turn the power off manually - but then there's the danger you will forget and drain all the battery power in between sessions.

Bluetooth codecs:  all selected
Selecting all of them hasn't caused a problem so far, the BTR5 always connects at the best available from the device and it does it quickly so I don't feel like I need to limit the choices available.  In the event I get a device that requires the codecs I don't normally use they will be available without needing the app to enable them.

Input Priority:  USB DAC first
This setting allows me to disconnect from USB and the BTR5 automatically connects with BT in a short couple of seconds to continue listening.

LCD Power off: 10 seconds
Enough time to scroll, think about the change, and then turn off.  LCD Dimmer is only settable on the device, and I have it set to 3 - indoors I set it to 1.

I don't use the other settings and default settings are working fine for me right now.

The BTR5 for me has been a smooth and satisfying experience.


----------



## SBranson

hifi80sman said:


> You may want to try un-pairing, restarting your phone, then re-paring.  I've had success doing that with some other BT devices I have.  It's also a good idea to restart your phone on a regular basis, especially if you're running on Android.



I think it re-paired after the update but good point..  I should start it fresh..    I'm on an iphone which I suspect Apple has taught to fight with anything they didn't make..




hmscott said:


> My BTR5 came with 1.04, I upgraded to 1.06 first thing - early days with devices usually require a few updates to get the bugs worked out.
> 
> I haven't had any operational weirdness in 100 hours+ usage on Note 10+ (BT 5.0) or Windows 10 (BT 4.2), mostly on USB but lots of BT as well.
> 
> ...



The app on iphone really it weird.  I am connected and when I go to the controls, it says it's disconnected.  Then tells me to push the power button but that does nothing so I press cancel and it's already connected.  I figure it's just a bug with IOS and FiiO's products.

Honestly, I didn't even realize that there was a firmware update until a few days ago..  I just hope this fixes the problem.

As far as idle power off..  I've usually set it quite high, at about 25 mins or so as at my work there are periods of interruption where I have to talk to others..  BUT.. stupidly (or perhaps because my glasses weren't on) I didn't even see that you could set it to OFF!!!..  I will try that.  As it is, the auto power off has never really worked.  I'm not sure if the iphone/BTR5 have a real sense of what "idle" means as I've left it in pause for hours and it's never shut off..  The only times it has shut off has been the "issues" I've already discussed.  The scary part was that it was essentially bricked until I plugged it back in..

Anyway, hope that's all history now.  I do really like this.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 23, 2020)

SBranson said:


> The app on iphone really it weird.  I am connected and when I go to the controls, it says it's disconnected.  Then tells me to push the power button but that does nothing so I press cancel and it's already connected.  I figure it's just a bug with IOS and FiiO's products.
> 
> Honestly, I didn't even realize that there was a firmware update until a few days ago..  I just hope this fixes the problem.
> 
> ...


My use case may allow the auto-power off to work for me.  I power down the PC or Hibernate my PC when the BTR5 is connected via BT or USB and in the PC BIOS I have all the power saving options enabled - nothing is powered when it's off - so the BTR 5 doesn't even get charged if connected, and I find the BTR5 off when I bring up the system next time.  I don't leave the USB connected to the phone, I disconnect it and take the phone away so the BTR5 in that scenario is also unpowered externally so auto-poweroff works there too.

Charging the BTR5 hasn't been needed since I use it on USB mostly, it's already charging set to Charge Always.  But when I first got it I charged it via power dongle only and I think the BTR5 was turned off when I took it off the charger.  I'd have to test that again to be sure.

When the BTR5 has a data connection via BT or USB it stays powered on.  I have put the BTR5 into a bag with the headphones connected, stuck it in my pocket and found it still connected to my phone when I took it out hours later.  It didn't power off when the BTR5 has a BT connection.  Now I turn off BT (I already turn off Wifi) when I go mobile before I put it away so the BTR5 is idled and can auto-poweroff.

It takes a while to get used to new devices.


----------



## zolom

Inserted a low profile metal clip in the FiiO case with the BTR5


----------



## hmscott (Feb 23, 2020)

zolom said:


> Inserted a low profile metal clip in the FiiO case with the BTR5


Nice.  Does it rub against the BTR5 inside the case?  Where can we find a similar clip?  Link?

I planned to use a Beats carabiner through the BTR5 leather case loop, when it arrives.






Spoiler: BT Headphones...



Yes, I have a "beater" pair of Beats Studio 3's...

After a long line of other BT over the ear headphones used to death over the years. My SONY MDR XB950BT headphones finally couldn't be glued back together anymore, so I now switch off / on charge with a set of Audio-Technica ATH-ANC900BT's and the Beats Studio 3's.  They both last more than one day's use - 22hr's Beats, 35 hr's 900BT's.

I used the Sony WH1000XM3's almost a month but after their predecessor's plastic failed so persistently for me I decided I couldn't take the chance long term.  Also there was a whistling under 100% noise canceling in the left ear - I had to decrease the ANC by 2 ticks in the app to make it go away - introducing some ambient sound.  Then there was the loose fit for me along with the tendency to slide around on my head.  Altogether that all found me not happy enough with them so I returned them.

I'm happy with both the Audio-Technica 900BT's and Beat's Studio 3's after a few months of rotation.


Now that I have the BTR5 I'm mostly listening to IEM's.


----------



## SBranson

hmscott said:


> My use case may allow the auto-power off to work for me.  I power down the PC or Hibernate my PC when the BTR5 is connected via BT or USB and in the PC BIOS I have all the power saving options enabled - nothing is powered when it's off - so the BTR 5 doesn't even get charged if connected, and I find the BTR5 off when I bring up the system next time.  I don't leave the USB connected to the phone, I disconnect it and take the phone away so the BTR5 in that scenario is also unpowered externally so auto-poweroff works there too.
> 
> Charging the BTR5 hasn't been needed since I use it on USB mostly, it's already charging set to Charge Always.  But when I first got it I charged it via power dongle only and I think the BTR5 was turned off when I took it off the charger.  I'd have to test that again to be sure.
> 
> ...



I wondered if I was mistaken in how the idle power off works.  That makes sense that it is not idling if it is just on pause and still connected.  Either way, I will leave it set to "off" and see what happens.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 23, 2020)

SBranson said:


> I wondered if I was mistaken in how the idle power off works.  That makes sense that it is not idling if it is just on pause and still connected.  Either way, I will leave it set to "off" and see what happens.


Well, that's my working theory so far via observation, I haven't done controlled testing as it's working as I expect.  If there is a connection via BT or PC audio host the device see's it as being in use and not idle.

I'd switch auto to Off, but I tend to get interrupted and can't come right back to turn things off, so auto-off is good for me.  It takes a moment to turn it back On when I do come back, so that works for me.

Maybe someone will do the methodical testing to see when the BTR5 feels like auto-offing.  If there are no apps with app open will the BTR detect Idle?  Does low volume or no playback constitute Idle? What is Idle to the BTR5?


----------



## XeNoNF50

Figured I wasn't doing my fiio FH7 any justice with my iBasso dc02 or Creative SXFi Amps I used for mobile so I bought this and so glad I did. Pairing this with it is lovely for me and makes a marked difference.

They're incredibly tough to get hold of here in the UK. Can't imagine that will improve much.


----------



## zolom (Feb 23, 2020)

Nice.  Does it rub against the BTR5 inside the case?  Where can we find a similar clip?  Link?

[/QUOTE]


Minimal effect (the FiiO leather case is flexible enough). If there is a concern about the BTR5 glass back, you can always glue the clip's back to the exterior of the leather case 


Got the clip from Aliexpress
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d6eqvM9
Use a small cutter to remove the leather pen attachment and nails


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 23, 2020)

zolom said:


> Inserted a low profile metal clip in the FiiO case with the BTR5



If I could, might I ask where you got the metal spring clip? Sorry didn't see that post about ali Express- thanks


----------



## hmscott (Feb 23, 2020)

@FiiO - Hi!, I was surprised that the BTR5 doesn't work with the Nintendo Switch, this article lists the BTR3, E10K, K1, Q1 work with the Nintendo Switch for audio out the USB C port.  Can you please ask the BTR5 guys to add support for the Nintendo Switch? - Thank you!

USB DAC Support - OS Ver 7.0 edition.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/b7r1dv/usb_dac_support_os_ver_70_edition/

There might well be other Fiio DAC's that work with the Nintendo Switch, that article is 10 months old for the Nintendo OS Version 7.0, and the Nintendo Switch is up to OS Version 9.1.0 as of today.

Here's an article from 9/2018 showing that the BTR3 and Nintendo Switch in USB mode:

Fiio BTR3 works with the Switch as a USB DAC!
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...fiio_btr3_works_with_the_switch_as_a_usb_dac/

When I hook up the BTR5 to the Nintendo Switch with 2 different USB C data cables that work great on the Note 10+ and PC the BTR5 shows it's connected - shows 44.1k, but audio still comes out of the Nintendo Switch speakers - and no USB Mode indicator shows on the Switch.

Here is the BTR3 image from that reddit post:


BTW, the Nintendo Switch included USB C - USB A controller cable is a nice long well shielded data cable for hooking up my Windows 10 PC to the BTR5


----------



## caprimulgus (Feb 23, 2020)

hmscott said:


> @FiiO - Hi!, I was surprised that the BTR5 doesn't work with the Nintendo Switch, this article lists the BTR3, E10K, K1, Q1 work with the Nintendo Switch for audio out the USB C port.  Can you please ask the BTR5 guys to add support for the Nintendo Switch? - Thank you!



From what I understand (not much!), this is because the Switch only supports USB Audio Class 1. BTR3 is USB Audio Class 1, while BTR5 is USB Audio Class 2 (which allows higher bitrates).

The only way FiiO could add support for the Switch would be to have the option to downgrade from Class 2 to Class 1 (I have no idea if this is even possible). Otherwise, it is up to Nintendo to add USB Audio Class 2 support to the Switch.

In the meantime, I would suggest grabbing a bluetooth transmitter like the Genki Bluetooth Adapter or Gulikit Route Air, and using the bluetooth functionality of the BTR5! If you can deal with the latency of AptX-LL, then using bluetooth is great, because you are no longer tethered to your Switch (my greatest fear is using my Switch with headphones on public transport and the headphone cable getting caught on something or someone walking passed, and yanking the headphones off my head or the Switch out of my hands! Bluetooth via BTR5 solves this problem!)


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 23, 2020)

caprimulgus said:


> From what I understand (not much!), this is because the Switch only supports USB Audio Class 1. BTR3 is USB Audio Class 1, while BTR5 is USB Audio Class 2 (which allows higher bitrates).
> 
> The only way FiiO could add support for the Switch would be to have the option to downgrade from Class 2 to Class 1 (I have no idea if this is even possible). Otherwise, it is up to Nintendo to add USB Audio Class 2 support to the Switch.
> 
> In the meantime, I would suggest grabbing a bluetooth transmitter like the Genki Bluetooth Adapter or Gulikit Route Air, and using the bluetooth functionality of the BTR5! If you can deal with the latency of AptX-LL, then using bluetooth is great, because you are no longer tethered to your Switch (my greatest fear is using my Switch with headphones on public transport and the headphone cable getting caught on something or someone walking passed, and yanking the headphones off my head or the Switch out of my hands! Bluetooth via BTR5 solves this problem!)



You can switch the btr5 to USB 1.0 right on the btr5 itself.


----------



## hmscott

caprimulgus said:


> From what I understand (not much!), this is because the Switch only supports USB Audio Class 1. BTR3 is USB Audio Class 1, while BTR5 is USB Audio Class 2 (which allows higher bitrates).
> 
> The only way FiiO could add support for the Switch would be to have the option to downgrade from Class 2 to Class 1 (I have no idea if this is even possible). Otherwise, it is up to Nintendo to add USB Audio Class 2 support to the Switch.
> 
> In the meantime, I would suggest grabbing a bluetooth transmitter like the Genki Bluetooth Adapter or Gulikit Route Air, and using the bluetooth functionality of the BTR5! If you can deal with the latency of AptX-LL, then using bluetooth is great, because you are no longer tethered to your Switch (my greatest fear is using my Switch with headphones on public transport and the headphone cable getting caught on something or someone walking passed, and yanking the headphones off my head or the Switch out of my hands! Bluetooth via BTR5 solves this problem!)


Yup, wireless is better, but in the dock I'd like to run the DAC - even portable with the DAC isn't bad, I've got the short cable for it.  I was "expecting" the BTR5 to work, so I was surprised that it doesn't.

I really I hope FiiO updates the BTR5 software to have an option to support the Switch and other devices that rely on compatibility that was available on the BTR3 - I would imagine there are a few BTR3 owners that are going to be unpleasantly surprised to find they lost that functionality.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 23, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> You can switch the btr5 to USB 1.0 right on the btr5 itself.


Yup, already tried USB 2.0 / USB 1.0.  Turned off charging. Powered off both devices and powered them up in different order to initialize the USB, 1 before the other.  Tried different cables.  Tried it outside the dock and on the dock.  Tried the switch in different apps, went through all the configuration options for the Switch and the BTR5.

All the descriptions I've read say that it "just works" you plug the BTR3 into the Nintendo Switch and it goes into USB Audio mode, Then there's that long list of devices like the BTR3 I posted that also do the same - work as a USB Audio device connected to the Nintendo Switch.

Hopefully @FiiO can alert the FiiO Developers that the BTR5 isn't supporting USB Audio with the Nintendo Switch even though the BTR3 and several other FiiO devices do.

Unless someone knows how to get the same request to the Nintendo Switch developers?...


----------



## ClieOS

hmscott said:


> Hopefully @FiiO can alert the FiiO Developers that the BTR5 isn't supporting USB Audio with the Nintendo Switch even though the BTR3 and several other FiiO devices do.
> 
> Unless someone knows how to get the same request to the Nintendo Switch developers?...



Don't think this is a FiiO problem, but more likely an Nintendo problem. Nintendo is known to implement half-baked driver on their devices in an effort to control what kind of accessories can be used, so this shouldn't be that different.


----------



## caprimulgus

abitdeef said:


> You can switch the btr5 to USB 1.0 right on the btr5 itself.





hmscott said:


> Yup, already tried USB 2.0 / USB 1.0.



In that case, it's probably just an incompatible chipset. Doubt there is much that FiiO can do to resolve it - it's probably a Nintendo thing, unfortunately!

Fingers crossed that Nintendo updates the Switch to support more devices - I wouldn't hold my breath for it, but I do believe they have added some USB audio support over time.


----------



## SBranson (Feb 24, 2020)

Well...  after all that hope, this morning the BTR5 will not power on.  No battery charge indicator, nothing..,

I’ll leave it plugged in and maybe it will come to life but I’m severely disappointed with this only lasting 2 months.  I’m sure I’m past the return date and really regret buying it where I did as I’m sure my usual place, headphone bar would have taken it back.

Back to my ES100 which has never hiccuped even once.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 24, 2020)

SBranson said:


> Well...  after all that hope, this morning the BTR5 will not power on.  No battery charge indicator, nothing..,
> 
> I’ll leave it plugged in and maybe it will come to life but I’m severely disappointed with this only lasting 2 months.  I’m sure I’m past the return date and really regret buying it where I did as I’m sure my usual place, headphone bar would have taken it back.
> 
> Back to my ES100 which has never hiccuped even once.



You can always contact fiio support, in my experience they're pretty good at sorting problems out.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

SBranson said:


> Well...  after all that hope, this morning the BTR5 will not power on.  No battery charge indicator, nothing..,
> 
> I’ll leave it plugged in and maybe it will come to life but I’m severely disappointed with this only lasting 2 months.  I’m sure I’m past the return date and really regret buying it where I did as I’m sure my usual place, headphone bar would have taken it back.
> 
> Back to my ES100 which has never hiccuped even once.


Same thing was happen to me with the ES100 last year. 

Maybe the same "cold soldering" issue on the battery. 
Hope you'll get a return.


----------



## hifi80sman (Feb 24, 2020)

SBranson said:


> Well...  after all that hope, this morning the BTR5 will not power on.  No battery charge indicator, nothing..,
> 
> I’ll leave it plugged in and maybe it will come to life but I’m severely disappointed with this only lasting 2 months.  I’m sure I’m past the return date and really regret buying it where I did as I’m sure my usual place, headphone bar would have taken it back.
> 
> Back to my ES100 which has never hiccuped even once.


Where did you buy it from?  Hopefully, FiiO support will honor the warranty.

If not, you could always try the Shanling UP4 or wait, since the prices for the BTR5 are getting jacked up due to supply/demand.  I picked mine up for $129 (I think I originally saw it for $99) and now it's up to $159.  Prices on the Shanling UP4 are at $99, but they are selling out here and there (Amazon), so I've been starting to see them go for $119 & $129.

If you're running balanced or USB, then I'd recommend the BTR5 hands down.  If you're going unbalanced 3.5mm (Bluetooth), the UP4 is a great option, since it has a little more juice and can run in dual DAC mode.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 24, 2020)

SBranson said:


> Well...  after all that hope, this morning the BTR5 will not power on.  No battery charge indicator, nothing..,
> 
> I’ll leave it plugged in and maybe it will come to life but I’m severely disappointed with this only lasting 2 months.  I’m sure I’m past the return date and really regret buying it where I did as I’m sure my usual place, headphone bar would have taken it back.
> 
> Back to my ES100 which has never hiccuped even once.


Sorry to hear that, have you tried to reset it?  Hold down the Power Button for 10 seconds?
https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/328486.html

BTR5 FAQ
https://www.fiio.com/btr5_faq

Electronics do fail, it sucks when it happens - contact FiiO support for an RMA under warranty
https://www.fiio.com/servicepsalesupport

Information during the current corona virus quarantine:
http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=45376&extra=page=1

It's a new product, probably even the first production runs, so problems are bound to happen until the production gets smoothed out.  That's why I recommend to wait a month or two before buying new electronics, let the bugs get worked out first and then buy it only after it looks like a good product that will get support long term.

I'm used to buying cutting edge hardware and I expect problems along the way, it's just part of the fun... mine is about 2 months old now too...


----------



## abitdeef

Yes it's not like fiio's a fly by night company- they will make it right. I've even got service from them after the warranty period was over, so I'd at least email support. From what I remember they even paid postage because it was a known issue.


----------



## FiiO

hmscott said:


> Yup, already tried USB 2.0 / USB 1.0.  Turned off charging. Powered off both devices and powered them up in different order to initialize the USB, 1 before the other.  Tried different cables.  Tried it outside the dock and on the dock.  Tried the switch in different apps, went through all the configuration options for the Switch and the BTR5.
> 
> All the descriptions I've read say that it "just works" you plug the BTR3 into the Nintendo Switch and it goes into USB Audio mode, Then there's that long list of devices like the BTR3 I posted that also do the same - work as a USB Audio device connected to the Nintendo Switch.
> 
> ...




Dear user,

You have tried to turn off the charge option in the BTR5 as well, right? Did you try another usb adapter? We will report to the engineer to see whether they have other idea about this problem.

Best regards


----------



## hmscott (Feb 25, 2020)

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> You have tried to turn off the charge option in the BTR5 as well, right? Did you try another usb adapter? We will report to the engineer to see whether they have other idea about this problem.
> 
> Best regards


Thank you for the quick attention to the problem, and yes I tried turning off Charging, 3 different cables and tried connecting directly to the Nintendo Switch bottom USB C connector as well as the USB A connector on the dock, all the same results, the BTR5 acknoledges the connection - shows 44.1 but the volume continues out of the Nintendo Switch - and I don't see that USB Audio icon on the Nintendo Switch appear when I plug in the USB C / A connector.

I also went through all the configuration options in the Nintendo Switch System and App's, and did a lot of searching on the internet - and for the BTR3 the users only mention connecting the BTR3 and it works immediately, with the Nintendo Switch "switching" to USB Audio.

Thank you again for your help


----------



## SBranson

hmscott said:


> Sorry to hear that, have you tried to reset it?  Hold down the Power Button for 10 seconds?
> https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/328486.html
> 
> BTR5 FAQ
> ...



I did try many times to reset it.  I held it down for 10 secs, 20secs, 30secs...  It just wouldn't respond.

Then after leaving it for about 3 hours plugged in and I finally gave up and went to put it away, I tried again and it powered on.  I turned it off and it powered on again..  Several hours later I took it out of my pocket and it powered on again...  I'll try again tomorrow and see if the pause thing shuts it down.

I wrote FiiO support and the place I purchased it from but haven't had any replies yet.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 25, 2020)

SBranson said:


> I did try many times to reset it.  I held it down for 10 secs, 20secs, 30secs...  It just wouldn't respond.
> 
> Then after leaving it for about 3 hours plugged in and I finally gave up and went to put it away, I tried again and it powered on.  I turned it off and it powered on again..  Several hours later I took it out of my pocket and it powered on again...  I'll try again tomorrow and see if the pause thing shuts it down.
> 
> I wrote FiiO support and the place I purchased it from but haven't had any replies yet.


Perhaps @FiiO has a suggestion for you to get the RMA expedited and support suggestions for your situation?

I actually had a similar thing happen today to my BTR5, but I then knew it was simply because it was out of power -  because at that point I realized I had forgotten to re-Enable Charge Always after testing the BTR5 with Charge Off on the Nintendo Switch. 

My BTR5 was out of juice, but not as far gone as yours as I was able to plug it in to USB on my PC and immediately I was able to push the On button and it revived - and it went right back to work being the USB DAC and Charging itself back up.

Maybe your BTR5 had discharged completely like mine, and it took a bit more of a charge to revive it enough to allow the On button to work?  I hope so, maybe you don't need to RMA it?


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 25, 2020)

SBranson said:


> I did try many times to reset it.  I held it down for 10 secs, 20secs, 30secs...  It just wouldn't respond.
> 
> Then after leaving it for about 3 hours plugged in and I finally gave up and went to put it away, I tried again and it powered on.  I turned it off and it powered on again..  Several hours later I took it out of my pocket and it powered on again...  I'll try again tomorrow and see if the pause thing shuts it down.
> 
> I wrote FiiO support and the place I purchased it from but haven't had any replies yet.



Fiio, help this guy out!!!


----------



## abitdeef

hmscott said:


> Thank you for the quick attention to the problem, and yes I tried turning off Charging, 3 different cables and tried connecting directly to the Nintendo Switch bottom USB C connector as well as the USB A connector on the dock, all the same results, the BTR5 acknoledges the connection - shows 44.1 but the volume continues out of the Nintendo Switch - and I don't see that USB Audio icon on the Nintendo Switch appear when I plug in the USB C / A connector.
> 
> I also went through all the configuration options in the Nintendo Switch System and App's, and did a lot of searching on the internet - and for the BTR3 the users only mention connecting the BTR3 and it works immediately, with the Nintendo Switch "switching" to USB Audio.
> 
> Thank you again for your help



I did all that too, no dice   would have been really cool if Nintendo included BT support.


----------



## SBranson (Feb 25, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Perhaps @FiiO has a suggestion for you to get the RMA expedited and support suggestions for your situation?
> 
> I actually had a similar thing happen today to my BTR5, but I then knew it was simply because it was out of power -  because at that point I realized I had forgotten to re-Enable Charge Always after testing the BTR5 with Charge Off on the Nintendo Switch.
> 
> ...



I heard back from my retailer who has told me to ship it back to them and they will send it to the distributor for a replacement under warranty.  Again, had I bought it at headphonebar they probably would send me one today and I could ship the other back tomorrow....  I was too impatient.

As far as it being out of power, I’m sure that’s not the issue as I plug it in to the car on the way home from work and charge it also on the way in so when I arrive it’s always at 100%. When it finally comes back to life I check and the battery is at 100%.

Anyway...  this all said, the damn thing is working normally today...  it’s so unpredictable.  I just hope a replacement isn’t contingent on them being able to recreate the problem.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 26, 2020)

SBranson said:


> I heard back from my retailer who has told me to ship it back to them and they will send it to the distributor for a replacement under warranty.  Again, had I bought it at headphonebar they probably would send me one today and I could ship the other back tomorrow....  I was too impatient.
> 
> As far as it being out of power, I’m sure that’s not the issue as I plug it in to the car on the way home from work and charge it also on the way in so when I arrive it’s always at 100%. When it finally comes back to life I check and the battery is at 100%.
> 
> Anyway...  this all said, the damn thing is working normally today...  it’s so unpredictable.  I just hope a replacement isn’t contingent on them being able to recreate the problem.


You might want to hang on to the BTR5 and see how it performs over the next few days, weeks? - IDK what your return period is - because as of the recent COVID-19 quarantines and work stoppages I haven't been able to get product out of China.

If you've had this a couple of months you are on warranty / RMA time, so no real rush to execute an RMA right now as it's still early in the 1 year warranty.  Shipping in / out of China is blocked up + FiiO (Guangzhou, China) might still be off of work - with a month+ of backlog to go through when they do come back to work.

You might not get a your BTR5 back for quite a while...


----------



## johnston21

Is the SE TRS or (non-mike) TRRS (like SONY ZX2, ZX300/500)?


----------



## ClieOS

johnston21 said:


> Is the SE TRS or (non-mike) TRRS (like SONY ZX2, ZX300/500)?



TRRS, but with inline volume control and mic support.


----------



## hmscott

abitdeef said:


> I did all that too, no dice   would have been really cool if Nintendo included BT support.


I put off ordering a BT dongle for the Nintendo Switch thinking the BTR5 would support the Nintendo Switch like the BTR3.

If the BTR5 can be made to work then there would be one less BT dongle I'd need to purchase.


----------



## SBranson (Feb 26, 2020)

hmscott said:


> You might want to hang on to the BTR5 and see how it performs over the next few days, weeks? - IDK what your return period is - because as of the recent COVID-19 quarantines and work stoppages I haven't been able to get product out of China.
> 
> If you've had this a couple of months you are on warranty / RMA time, so no real rush to execute an RMA right now as it's still early in the 1 year warranty.  Shipping in / out of China is blocked up + FiiO (Guangzhou, China) might still be off of work - with a month+ of backlog to go through when they do come back to work.
> 
> You might not get a your BTR5 back for quite a while...



I didn’t check if the retailer had to send it back to China. I assumed it would be sorted by the main distributor here in Canad but I will check, thanks.
I will be sending it in though as this morning the troubles are back.  Made it one day and back to shutting down with no reply from the buttons until I plug it in for a few minutes.
...  and just shut down again after pausing and no response from the buttons..  stupid thing...

Thinking I might sell the new one unopened.  I had troubles with the BTR3 and now the BTR5..  very disappointing


----------



## Yukicore

My Fiio BTR5 is always discoverable, anyone can connect and play their music on my BTR5. I cant find a way to disable it being discoverable?

This is bad.


----------



## hifi80sman

SBranson said:


> I didn’t check if the retailer had to send it back to China. I assumed it would be sorted by the main distributor here in Canad but I will check, thanks.
> I will be sending it in though as this morning the troubles are back.  Made it one day and back to shutting down with no reply from the buttons until I plug it in for a few minutes.
> ...  and just shut down again after pausing and no response from the buttons..  stupid thing...
> 
> Thinking I might sell the new one unopened.  I had troubles with the BTR3 and now the BTR5..  very disappointing


Not sure if it's too big for you, but I just received the FiiO Q5s and I love it.  It has far more power than the BTR5 and kills it balanced with my Sony MDR-Z7M2.  I ended up returning my BTR5 & Shanling UP4, the latter of which I was having trouble getting them to consistently and reliably connect to both my Android device and iPhone simultaneously.  Sometimes, it would refuse to connect to the 2nd device, so I would have to unpair/re-pair.


----------



## psikey (Feb 26, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Not sure if it's too big for you, but I just received the FiiO Q5s and I love it.  It has far more power than the BTR5 and kills it balanced with my Sony MDR-Z7M2.  I ended up returning my BTR5 & Shanling UP4, the latter of which I was having trouble getting them to consistently and reliably connect to both my Android device and iPhone simultaneously.  Sometimes, it would refuse to connect to the 2nd device, so I would have to unpair/re-pair.



At 124 x 64 x 16 mm and 200 grams its a completely different class of product. Wouldn't want that clipped to my shirt or on lanyard around neck !

I think the words "_Kills It_" is likely an over exaggeration. Even the Hugo 2 I had doesn't "_Kill It_" even though it is better especially with full hungry headphones.

For me I paid £75 for BTR5 and cheapest Q5S for me is  £329.

BTR5 72 x 32 x 11 mm and only 44g


----------



## SBranson

hifi80sman said:


> Not sure if it's too big for you, but I just received the FiiO Q5s and I love it.  It has far more power than the BTR5 and kills it balanced with my Sony MDR-Z7M2.  I ended up returning my BTR5 & Shanling UP4, the latter of which I was having trouble getting them to consistently and reliably connect to both my Android device and iPhone simultaneously.  Sometimes, it would refuse to connect to the 2nd device, so I would have to unpair/re-pair.



I work in cabinet shop and the BTR5 is the size I need.  I also need easy access to the controls to pause when discussing things with the other guys.  The Q5 wouldn’t work.

Heard back from the retailer that the unit would be replaced by the Canadian distributor but both they and my retailer are out of stock and “expecting” more in March. I put quotes around expecting as I assume they are coming from China...  so this could take a while.  Luckily I hung onto my ES100 so I’m using that now.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

*QUESTION*

Can I set the BTR5 to run off of USB power instead of the Internal Battery when I use it as USB DAC? If so How?


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 26, 2020)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> *QUESTION*
> 
> Can I set the BTR5 to run off of USB power instead of the Internal Battery when I use it as USB DAC? If so How?



Long press and then short presses, then charge 'on'.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 26, 2020)

psikey said:


> At 124 x 64 x 16 mm and 200 grams its a completely different class of product. Wouldn't want that clipped to my shirt or on lanyard around neck !
> 
> I think the words "_Kills It_" is likely an over exaggeration. Even the Hugo 2 I had doesn't "_Kill It_" even though it is better especially with full hungry headphones.
> 
> ...



No I had both and besides more power I actually like the sound sig of the btr5 over the stock Q5s, and the m11 for that matter. Would be better for driving 300ohm cans though, but I have plenty of power for my stuff. 

Besides power output the btr5 actually measures better in snr and crosstalk than the q5s. And the thd+n is the same out of balanced and that's using ldac for the btr5 which is pretty incredible. 

Specs/measurements aren't everything, but it's really the only subjective thing we have to look at. And at least fiio uses numbers that have a load applied.


----------



## hifi80sman

psikey said:


> At 124 x 64 x 16 mm and 200 grams its a completely different class of product. Wouldn't want that clipped to my shirt or on lanyard around neck !
> 
> I think the words "_Kills It_" is likely an over exaggeration. Even the Hugo 2 I had doesn't "_Kill It_" even though it is better especially with full hungry headphones.
> 
> ...


I like the BTR5, but my experience with the Q5s is a level higher, which it should be.  That being said, yes, it's not as portable, which is why I qualified my statement by noting it might be "too big".  Certainly, we're looking at diminishing returns as we go higher and higher, so it boils down to preference and budget.  Price/Performance, BTR5 is better, but sheer performance, Q5s is better.

High gain + 4.4mm balanced on the FiiO Q5s gives me a richer, fuller experience.  It's not night and day, but it's like cheese pizza vs. pepperoni.  If I need absolute mobility, the BTR5 is the way to go (especially balanced) and has a superior form factor/clip when compared with the Shanling UP4.  At a desk, if budget is not an issue, I prefer the Q5s.

That being said, you do loose the mic for calls.


----------



## abitdeef

Btr5 is definitely more towards the neutral side than q5s. And I throw that statement 'as it should be' better- completely out of my mind after comparing so much gear the last six months. I've found that higher price and bulk doesn't add up to better audio performance for me if I'm honest. 

Plus you have to voltage match stuff to really get a true picture as just a little volume variance can make x sound better than z.

It's like stuff has a bit different flavour or presentation but I can't call one superior over another unless it is anaemic sounding, or has a boxed in sound  stage or has a lot of background noise. Which most stuff doesn't anymore. 

Now of I was trying to drive my senns I'd need more power and would go with a desktop solution or the mojo. 

It's more of - oh I like that sound sig over brand x , but they both sound good. 

As long as someone is happy, that's really all that counts.


----------



## hifi80sman

abitdeef said:


> As long as someone is happy, that's really all that counts.


Totally agree.  People don't always see eye to eye and some may like this more than that or think x is better than y, but at the end of the day, it's what makes you happy.  I enjoy sharing my experiences with others, so if they can take something from it, great, if they don't agree with me or think my use of terms is extreme, so be it.

Sharing is caring.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 27, 2020)

It's pretty easy in theory to put the BTR5 up against larger and more expensive hardware, but is that what the BTR5 use case is supposed to be?

I bought the BTR5 to use my IEMs and let them take the place of larger BT headphones.  Who wants to lug those around with you all day?  Well that's what I've been doing for years - because there was nothing else around to use for high quality wireless sound.

My BT headphones with a few exceptions have been full sized over the ear headphones because I want high quality sound on the move.  I don't want to compromise on sound quality.  But, after all these years with the big BT headphones I wanted something pocket sized and unobtrusive.

The IEM's are great for mobile use, but they have wires to the phone, and those wires get in the way - which is my whole reason for using BT in the first place.

There may be good TWS earphones on the way, but they've either been too expensive or unreliable, or just poor sounding with short battery life.  KZ has put out a few models that had promise, and I am hoping the IEM manufacturers that know how to make good sounding IEM's will persevere and give us completely wireless earbuds based on the IEMs we love soon, but we aren't there yet.

And, I've already got IEM's, I don't need more - sure I'll buy more, who can stop    But, I don't want to duplicate TWS IEMS just to get BT - that's where the BTR5 comes in.

The BTR5 + IEMs in a small sack can come with me and be available at any time.  And, I can leave them in my ears all the time if I want.  Sometimes it's not appropriate and I can put the BTR5 / IEMs in my pocket quickly and easily.  Then I don't have a set of giant BT headphones in my hands or on the desk - ready for me to forget and lose quickly.

The BTR5 doesn't need to drive hard to drive headphones for me, my IEM's are easy to drive, and the BTR5 balanced output has plenty of power - I hardly go above 20 on H Gain and 24 on L Gain, there's plenty left in the tank.

It's an added benefit that with the BTR5 I can quickly change from USB DAC mode (while charging!) to BT mode - I can get better sound and charge when the situation allows - and use BT in between.  I can't do that with TWS's.

I think we need to remember that the BTR5 can't be a solution for all audiophile requirements.

For me right now though, the BTR5 is doing everything I need for mobile use just fine.  The BTR5 has met and exceeded all of my expectations, and I'm excited to use it every single day since the BTR5 arrived.


----------



## lucasd

Can someone explain what is the supposed difference between low and high gain?
I find it strange they describe lower power usage in L, as power output should be similar at given volume, except maybe the noise level (higher in H mode)...


----------



## ClieOS

lucasd said:


> Can someone explain what is the supposed difference between low and high gain?
> I find it strange they describe lower power usage in L, as power output should be similar at given volume, except maybe the noise level (higher in H mode)...



Where did they describe lower power usage in L mode?


----------



## hmscott (Feb 27, 2020)

lucasd said:


> Can someone explain what is the supposed difference between low and high gain?
> I find it strange they describe lower power usage in L, as power output should be similar at given volume, except maybe the noise level (higher in H mode)...


You might be confusing using balanced and unbalanced power usage with H/L Gain.  Although there is likely a power usage difference between High Gain and Low Gain - you are probably ending up the same on each by adjusting the volume output level.

The stated battery life difference is between 2.5mm balanced and 3.5mm unbalanced:




https://www.fiio.com/btr5


----------



## lucasd

So what's the difference / advantage and disadvantage of gain L/H?


----------



## HipHopScribe (Feb 27, 2020)

lucasd said:


> So what's the difference / advantage and disadvantage of gain L/H?



The advantage of high gain is higher volume output for less efficient headphones. The disadvantage of high gain is higher noise (on most amps, don't know about the measurements of the BTR5 specifically). So, only use high gain if you find that you have to turn the volume up really high to get a decent sound level on low gain. Stick with low gain otherwise.


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 27, 2020)

lucasd said:


> So what's the difference / advantage and disadvantage of gain L/H?



Just as you would think, if you're powering easy to drive iems and such you can use low gain and save a bit of juice.

If you need more power you can enable high gain. Now I always enable high gain myself  because even at percieved same volume levels you can experience a bit of dynamics boost- among other benefits.

Simple from having more headroom and the cans iems being driven a bit more efficiently at the same volume level.

Now, as I stated before volume matching without measuring output is very hard to do accurately and sometimes when trying to match volume in high gain mode to the relative volume you used in low gain mode- well a lot of times you are feeding you cans/iems a bit more current and low and behold they sound better 

When I'm serious and want to check outputs I use a multimeter to match outputs, to make sure they're the same. Many times I've thought- man this new blank sounds better, only to check the output and find I had it higher than dap b.

Clean efficent power really helps sound out, so I always use high gain and adjust down.

And yes Hip hop scribe is right, high gain usually brings more noise. Although a lot of stuff has such good snr and thd+n you can get away with using high gain.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Feb 27, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Just as you would think, if you're powering easy to drive iems and such you can use low gain and save a bit of juice.
> 
> If you need more power you can enable high gain. Now I always enable high gain myself  because even at percieved same volume levels you can experience a bit of dynamics boost- among other benefits.
> 
> ...



The problem with defaulting to high gain and adjusting down is that noise floor and distortion are generally gonna be higher, which is usually a negative. This probably won't matter with a lot of headphones as the difference shouldn't be huge in a good design, but with sensitive IEMs especially this can be audible


----------



## abitdeef

HipHopScribe said:


> The problem with defaulting to high gain and adjusting down is that noise floor and distortion are generally gonna be higher, which is usually a negative. This probably won't matter with a lot of headphones as the difference shouldn't be huge in a good design, but with IEMs especially this can be audible



And plus it uses a bit more juice. It's just a habit I've developed over time and have been lucky because most stuff is really efficient and I don't have something super sensitive like Solaris. 

Probably better to stick with low gain if you don't need the power.


----------



## psikey

I'm low gain with my SE846's (21) and K10U (22). Tried high gain but once volume reduced to match I hear no noticeable benefit. Don't have demanding headphones.


----------



## abitdeef

Here is some pics of the official fiio case.


----------



## caprimulgus

How does the thickness compare to using the back clip?


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 27, 2020)

caprimulgus said:


> How does the thickness compare to using the back clip?



Thickness of the case? Sorry I'm not sure I'm comprehendo on the query. I mean the case is pretty thin and of course there's no clip on it. Maybe a touch thicker the back is thicker I think.


----------



## Devodonaldson (Feb 27, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> I like the BTR5, but my experience with the Q5s is a level higher, which it should be.  That being said, yes, it's not as portable, which is why I qualified my statement by noting it might be "too big".  Certainly, we're looking at diminishing returns as we go higher and higher, so it boils down to preference and budget.  Price/Performance, BTR5 is better, but sheer performance, Q5s is better.
> 
> High gain + 4.4mm balanced on the FiiO Q5s gives me a richer, fuller experience.  It's not night and day, but it's like cheese pizza vs. pepperoni.  If I need absolute mobility, the BTR5 is the way to go (especially balanced) and has a superior form factor/clip when compared with the Shanling UP4.  At a desk, if budget is not an issue, I prefer the Q5s.
> 
> That being said, you do loose the mic for calls.


Just dual locked my btr5 to my Monoprice Monolith portable DAC/Amp with THX, and DIRAC. This is a wonderful combination. The btr5  Sabre DAC is more detailed than AK4493, and it just does it for me via LDAC. My XDSD is now fully redundant, and beat by this combo for about the same price. It's this and my Mojo as my two go two setups, for the time being.


----------



## caprimulgus (Feb 27, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Thickness of the case? Sorry I'm not sure I'm comprehendo on the query. I mean the case is pretty thin and of course there's no clip on it. Maybe a touch thicker the back is thicker I think.



Sorry, I mean the thickness of the whole package: ie. BTR5 with case on vs BTR5 with clip on - how bulky they make the BTR5 feel in comparison.

Looks like the clip would make the whole package thicker in measurement, but does the case feel substantially thinner and less bulky?


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 27, 2020)

caprimulgus said:


> Sorry, I mean the thickness of the whole package: ie. BTR5 with case on vs BTR5 with clip on - how bulky they make the BTR5 feel in comparison.
> 
> Looks like the clip would make the whole package thicker in measurement, but does the case feel substantially thinner and less bulky?



It does feel less bulky for sure, probably because of the thicker corners on the clip and the clip itself. The clip is actually very nice, but if you're just using it as a usb dac a lot it's nice to have the pu case. I took some more pics so you can gauge the thickness.

The case makes it look more pro, ha ha.


----------



## jeejack

On Bluetooth mode ( LDAC) Btr5 use Sabre DAC or Qualcom chip?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

It always use the Sabre one wether its bluetooth or usb.


----------



## jeejack

In conclusion there should be no big difference between bluetooth and cable (3.5 mm output) ?


----------



## abitdeef (Feb 28, 2020)

Devodonaldson said:


> Just dual locked my btr5 to my Monoprice Monolith portable DAC/Amp with THX, and DIRAC. This is a wonderful combination. The btr5  Sabre DAC is more detailed than AK4493, and it just does it for me via LDAC. My XDSD is now fully redundant, and beat by this combo for about the same price. It's this and my Mojo as my two go two setups, for the time being.



I'd like to get a monolith just for the dsp/eq system. I had a chance to get a like new one off monolith for 200 bucks, but I hesitated and it sold. So do you think the monolith sounds better than the xdsd ?

So you're feeding the btr5 BT and outputting the 3.5 to the monolith and just using the amp section?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

jeejack said:


> In conclusion there should be no big difference between bluetooth and cable (3.5 mm output) ?


Simple answer is, no.
But i've to mention that there can be other factors raise importance.
How good/bad is the usb connector on both sides?
How does the usb chip on the btr 5 alters the signal?
Is the input power of the usb-chip higher or lower than the bluetooth one?

This all can effect the perceived sound from the btr5. Even this effect is rather small, it could change your own perception.
Your eyes tells you that there's a different connection used, so your brain tells you the sound has to be different. 

In the end, it's not that simple couz our brain fools us with every step we take. ^^
The important thing is, that it sound good to you.


----------



## Devodonaldson

abitdeef said:


> I'd like to get a monolith just for the dsp/eq system. I had a chance to get a like new one off monolith for 200 bucks, but I hesitated and it sold. So do you think the monolith sounds better than the xdsd ?
> 
> So you're feeding the btr5 BT and outputting the 3.5 to the monolith and just using the amp section?


To answer your first question, it's difficult. I honestly bought the Monolith JUST to use with my LCDi4, due to the DSP. Beautiful combination, and smacks around any cipher cable. Haven't used it as a wired DAC with other phones and compared to xdsd wired. BTR5 serving as LDAC Bluetooth to the line in of the Monolith. This is a beautiful combination. Best Bluetooth I've heard.


----------



## abitdeef

Devodonaldson said:


> To answer your first question, it's difficult. I honestly bought the Monolith JUST to use with my LCDi4, due to the DSP. Beautiful combination, and smacks around any cipher cable. Haven't used it as a wired DAC with other phones and compared to xdsd wired. BTR5 serving as LDAC Bluetooth to the line in of the Monolith. This is a beautiful combination. Best Bluetooth I've heard.



Yes I even think the BT out of balanced on the btr5 sounds better than the xdsd bluetooth. I preferred the more neutral sig out of the btr5 USB too. I like the treble. Might have to check out the monolith soon.


----------



## Devodonaldson

abitdeef said:


> Yes I even think the BT out of balanced on the btr5 sounds better than the xdsd bluetooth. I preferred the more neutral sig out of the btr5 USB too. I like the treble. Might have to check out the monolith soon.


So, I use to feel the same, as I felt the XDSD via Bluetooth was missing to much up top due the APTX lacking in the upper registers. Turning on the 3d which is essentially a treble boost changed that pretty dramatically for me. I like the staging and overall character of xdsd more. With 3d off, btr5 for sure as you get more sense of the who music because of the ability of LDAC to show more of the freq spectrum. As I stated earlier, btr5/Monolith combination is relegating my XDSD to Nintendo Switch or car duty.


----------



## abitdeef

Devodonaldson said:


> So, I use to feel the same, as I felt the XDSD via Bluetooth was missing to much up top due the APTX lacking in the upper registers. Turning on the 3d which is essentially a treble boost changed that pretty dramatically for me. I like the staging and overall character of xdsd more. With 3d off, btr5 for sure as you get more sense of the who music because of the ability of LDAC to show more of the freq spectrum. As I stated earlier, btr5/Monolith combination is relegating my XDSD to Nintendo Switch or car duty.



I thought that boost sounded kind of off, so I never used it. Maybe I would like the dirac either.


----------



## carpler

Hello everyone!
Reading the thread I realized that the balanced output uses both Saber DACs and has more power than the 3.5 output.
At home I have K701 modified with balanced cable, but when I'm on the move I use more "portable" headphones (like the V-Monk or Koss KSC75).
I ask: is there an adapter from 2.5 balanced out to 3.5 SE out that allows you to take advantage of the balanced port even for SE headphones? Would you get an improvement in sound or not?
Or is it better to buy a pair of headphones with balanced cable?
Which model do you suggest that are NOT IEM and that they are "portable"?


----------



## ClieOS

carpler said:


> I ask: is there an adapter from 2.5 balanced out to 3.5 SE out that allows you to take advantage of the balanced port even for SE headphones? Would you get an improvement in sound or not?
> Or is it better to buy a pair of headphones with balanced cable?...



For these questions, read the link in my signature regarding SE vs. Balanced.


----------



## carpler

ClieOS said:


> For these questions, read the link in my signature regarding SE vs. Balanced.



Thank you. Read your post.
So there is any adapter or cable to connect a single-ended headphone to a balanced source...

So remains my other question.
Which headphones with balanced cable do you suggest that are NOT IEM and that they are "portable"?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

carpler said:


> Thank you. Read your post.
> So there is any adapter or cable to connect a single-ended headphone to a balanced source...
> 
> So remains my other question.
> Which headphones with balanced cable do you suggest that are NOT IEM and that they are "portable"?


Hi.
There're some questions about it.

1. What do you want when asking about portable? Small folding mechanism for transport or a small headphone size for mobile use? Full size over ear or small on ear?
2. What is your max budget for the "portable" headphone?


----------



## abitdeef

carpler said:


> Thank you. Read your post.
> So there is any adapter or cable to connect a single-ended headphone to a balanced source...
> 
> So remains my other question.
> Which headphones with balanced cable do you suggest that are NOT IEM and that they are



Audeze LCD-1, campfire audio cascade, - grados, and audio technica, akg have some smaller models that can run balanced.

Like Chris above said, depends on how much you want to spend, and do you want closed or open back- usually more portable cans are closed etc. I have meze classics 99 and I consider them pretty light and comfy.

There are a ton of choices for balanced cans.


----------



## carpler

Chris Kaoss said:


> Hi.
> There're some questions about it.
> 
> 1. What do you want when asking about portable? Small folding mechanism for transport or a small headphone size for mobile use? Full size over ear or small on ear?
> 2. What is your max budget for the "portable" headphone?





abitdeef said:


> Audeze LCD-1, campfire audio cascade, - grados, and audio technica, akg have some smaller models that can run balanced.
> 
> Like Chris above said, depends on how much you want to spend, and do you want closed or open back- usually more portable cans are closed etc. I have meze classics 99 and I consider them pretty light and comfy.
> 
> There are a ton of choices for balanced cans.



Thank you to both for your answer.
My favorite "portable" headphone are clips-on, as the KSC75.
A few years ago I bought the fantastic Yuin G2A, but they broke.
Unfortunately these days headphones of this type are no longer on the market, apart from the Koss.
Furthermore, it doesn't seem to me that there are balanced clips-on. 

Yes, I'm looking for small on ear, no full size, for mobile use.
I like the V-Monks (good earbuds for the bucks!), but it seems to me that the version with balanced cable is no longer on sale.
Budget? Not so high: around 50€.
I think maybe it's not worth shopping just to take advantage of the balanced output of the BTR5.
Maybe it's better at this point to choose Shanling UP4 ...


----------



## abitdeef

carpler said:


> Thank you to both for your answer.
> My favorite "portable" headphone are clips-on, as the KSC75.
> A few years ago I bought the fantastic Yuin G2A, but they broke.
> Unfortunately these days headphones of this type are no longer on the market, apart from the Koss.
> ...



That budget limits you quite a bit. But they're are a lot of decent cans in the 150 dollar range, but most of those aren't portable. And headphones and iems are going to give you the best improvement overall. 

There are a ton of iems in that price range and decent balanced cables can be had at a good price. I recommend inner fidelity and the 'headphone' list to check some stuff out.

https://theheadphonelist.com/headphone-review/


https://www.innerfidelity.com/


----------



## carpler

Thank you for the answer.
The iems have two problems for me.
The first is that they isolate too much from external noise: using headphones when cycling, they are not very suitable!
The second is that ... I can't tolerate them! After a while, my ears get annoyed.


----------



## carpler

Here in Italy the Btr5 is out of stock on official reseller website. No info about new availability.
What's the situation in China? Here in Italy various region got school closed...


----------



## hifi80sman

carpler said:


> Thank you to both for your answer.
> My favorite "portable" headphone are clips-on, as the KSC75.
> A few years ago I bought the fantastic Yuin G2A, but they broke.
> Unfortunately these days headphones of this type are no longer on the market, apart from the Koss.
> ...


The UP4 goes for $99 and has dual DAC mode for unbalanced 3.5mm connection.  Balanced, however, is notably better on the BTR5.  If you want the best SQ, then the BTR5 via balanced is the way to go.  If you're OK with unbalanced 3.5mm, the Shanling UP4 for $50 - $60 less is a good alternative.  It's also has a nice tactile volume wheel which also acts as a multi-function button, which I personally prefer.

My Take:

USB = BTR5
Balanced = BTR5
Unbalanced = UP4
Controls = UP4


----------



## ClieOS

If you are going to use 3.5mm single-ended output only, I am more inclined to suggest Hiby W3 or even UP2. UP4 is kinda problematic.


----------



## 435279

carpler said:


> Here in Italy the Btr5 is out of stock on official reseller website. No info about new availability.
> What's the situation in China? Here in Italy various region got school closed...


Who knows, I saw this today, there may be other factors that effect the data other than COVID-19 though. Facts can be dangerous in the wrong hands.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Mar 1, 2020)

What are some of the recommend Case for BTR5?


abitdeef said:


> Long press and then short presses, then charge 'on'.



Hello, could you elaborate a little? Does the BTR5 have to be completely off, then Plug into the PC? Doesn't setting it to Charge "On" means the it will use the internal battery when using it as USB DAC?


----------



## abitdeef

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> What are some of the recommend Case for BTR5?
> 
> 
> Hello, could you elaborate a little? Does the BTR5 have to be completely off, then Plug into the PC? Doesn't setting it to Charge "On" means the it will use the internal battery when using it as USB DAC?



Charge on, means it's going to charge from the source it's hooked up to. Charge off means it will only use the internal battery. Afaik there are only 2 cases to buy, one is made by dd and the other is branded fiio.


----------



## caprimulgus

abitdeef said:


> It does feel less bulky for sure, probably because of the thicker corners on the clip and the clip itself. The clip is actually very nice, but if you're just using it as a usb dac a lot it's nice to have the pu case. I took some more pics so you can gauge the thickness.
> 
> The case makes it look more pro, ha ha.



Cheers mate, thanks for the pics - I think I’ll have to grab one!


----------



## abitdeef

caprimulgus said:


> Cheers mate, thanks for the pics - I think I’ll have to grab one!



Glad I could help, it's a nice little case.


----------



## jsmiller58

SteveOliver said:


> Who knows, I saw this today, there may be other factors that effect the data other than COVID-19 though. Facts can be dangerous in the wrong hands.


Would appreciate very much the link.  Thanks!


----------



## hmscott

jsmiller58 said:


> Would appreciate very much the link.  Thanks!


*Airborne Nitrogen Dioxide Plummets Over China*
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/146362/airborne-nitrogen-dioxide-plummets-over-china
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Mar 1, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Charge on, _means it's going to charge from the source it's hooked up to_. Charge off means it will only use the internal battery. Afaik there are only 2 cases to buy, one is made by dd and the other is branded fiio.



so, either way, the battery gets used. @FiiO  Any idea if the BTR5 have overcharge protection ? I was hoping it can run off of USB Power when using as a USB DAC, thus leaving the Battery alone.

Do I need a specialty Cable to use the BTR5 as a USB DAC for my Computer?


----------



## abitdeef

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> so, either way, the battery gets used. @FiiO  Any idea if the BTR5 have overcharge protection ? I was hoping it can run off of USB Power when using as a USB DAC, thus leaving the Battery alone.
> 
> Do I need a specialty Cable to use the BTR5 as a USB DAC for my Computer?



No the cable that came with it will work.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 2, 2020)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> so, either way, the battery gets used. @FiiO  Any idea if the BTR5 have overcharge protection ? I was hoping it can run off of USB Power when using as a USB DAC, thus leaving the Battery alone.
> 
> Do I need a specialty Cable to use the BTR5 as a USB DAC for my Computer?


You can Disable USB Charge while connected via USB DAC - that is required for iPhone connections - and I have tried Disabling Charge for PC / Note 10+ DAC use to see if I could detect any noise or lack of noise, or audio quality differences - both Charging and Not Charging sound the same to me.  You can adjust that setting live on the BTR5 or in the App.

I used the included cable with the BTR5 along with a USB-A Female to USB-A Male extension cable to reach the back or top of the PC case, some USB ports are less noisy than others, and I found my favorite port - surprisingly on the front panel, it has the least noise or no noise I can detect.

I've also used the Note 10+ included cable for charging and DAC use between the Note 10+ and the BTR5, it's too short to reach the USB-C port on my PC, so I am ordering this USB-C to USB-C cable - I haven't tried it yet:

USB C to C Cable 100W (5FT), RIITOP USB 3.1 Type-C Gen 2 Fast Charging Cable (20Gbps) with E-Marker for PD and 4K Video (Thunderbolt 3 Compatible) Braided Nylon Cord - $13.95
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZVDDBK9

There are USB-C cables built for USB 2.0 speed - 480mbps, and those would be ok for the BTR5 audio, but I wanted something with a bit longer life, better noise rejection, and a nicer outer covering.  A 10gbps or 20gbps cable is probably overkill, but I wanted to get a cable that I could use for a couple of generations of devices.  That is unless they change the USB-C connector again.  These higher speed cables also have better shielding.

This is what I bought to have a short data cable between the Note 10+ and the BTR5, slightly longer than the included cable and USB-C to USB-C.  Note the Arrows on the Connectors, you have to orient the arrows in the correct data direction - they only work in one direction, I've tried.  Arrows go from the source device to the BTR5.  It's back in stock for $7.95:

DD TC05 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6 10 cm
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJZBYVH

I'm also ordering some high speed converters to adapt cables to sources, I haven't verified they work yet either:

Electop Updated USB 3.1 Male to Type-C Female Adapter,USB A to USB C 3.1 GEN 2 Converter,Support Double Sided 10Gbps Charging & Data
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q81GD5G/

USB C Female to USB 3.0 Male Adapter(2 Pack),Type C to USB A Connector Converter
https://www.amazon.com/Elebase-Keychain-Connector-Chargers-Interface/dp/B07DL9WL73

Still working out which converters to get, there are bunch of them.

If anyone has any other cables / converters they've tried or want to try to recommend please do, I could use some suggestions.  I'll update after I've tested out whatever I end up getting.


----------



## carpler

ClieOS said:


> If you are going to use 3.5mm single-ended output only, I am more inclined to suggest Hiby W3 or even UP2. UP4 is kinda problematic.



Can you explain? Why the UP4 is problematic for the 3.5 port?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Mar 2, 2020)

hmscott said:


> You can Disable USB Charge while connected via USB DAC - that is required for iPhone connections - and I have tried Disabling Charge for PC / Note 10+ DAC use to see if I could detect any noise or lack of noise, or audio quality differences - both Charging and Not Charging sound the same to me.  You can adjust that setting live on the BTR5 or in the App.
> 
> I used the included cable with the BTR5 along with a USB-A Female to USB-A Male extension cable to reach the back or top of the PC case, some USB ports are less noisy than others, and I found my favorite port - surprisingly on the front panel, it has the least noise or no noise I can detect.
> 
> ...



My main concern is the non-replaceable internal battery. I simply do not want the battery to be _charged / use_ when I'm using it as a wired USB DAC. Oh well, I should've done more research before ordering the BTR5.

Regardless thanks for the wright up


----------



## hmscott (Mar 2, 2020)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> My main concern is the non-replaceable internal battery. I simply do not want the battery to be _charged / use_ when I'm using it as a wired USB DAC. Oh well, I should've done more research before ordering the BTR5.
> 
> Regardless thanks for the wright up


NP, I wouldn't worry about it much, the BTR5 will likely work fine for years to come even using the battery in all modes - FiiO has been designing and building such devices for years now.  Most(?) devices run from battery as a normal operating mode for best audio vs AC/DC external power.

FiiO does help customers out of warranty as well, so you could send it in for a battery replacement upon that eventuality with the BTR5:


> Chamelleon replied at 2019-11-6 14:46
> 
> 
> My device is older than year so out of warranty.


"Dear friend,
If you do not mind sending the BTR3 back to us for repair, we could repair for you free of charge, but you would need to pay the 8USD shipping cost of sending back to you.
Best regards "
http://fiio.net:8000/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=44947&page=1#pid130746


----------



## abitdeef

hmscott said:


> NP, I wouldn't worry about it much, the BTR5 will likely work fine for years to come even using the battery in all modes - FiiO has been designing and building such devices for years now.  Most(?) devices run from battery as a normal operating mode for best audio vs AC/DC.
> 
> FiiO does help customers out of warranty as well, so you could send it in for a battery replacement upon that eventuality with the BTR5:
> 
> ...



Yes fiio has done that for me, I just changed the battery myself. Most of these manufacturers are good about keeping extra cells about.

But anyways by the time the battery dies, BTr20 ver 2.0 will be out lol.


----------



## ClieOS

carpler said:


> Can you explain? Why the UP4 is problematic for the 3.5 port?



Here.


----------



## carpler

A question. LDAC codec support on the smartphone is software or hardware (or both)?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

It's both.
While LDAC mostly is software related you need a bluetooth chip, which is capable to make use of the software.


----------



## carpler

Thank you for the answer.
Is there a way to know if it is supported by your smartphone (without owning the BTR5!)?


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 3, 2020)

An extra note: Sony already contribute LDAC coding into AOSP so it is basically free for all Android smartphone manufacturers to implement on their smartphone. The only reason why some of the newer Android models don't support it is mostly just a business decision.

Check the spec of the smartphone. It usually will be listed on the Bluetooth section.


----------



## carpler

A question about mic.
The BTR5 integrates a microphone. If you use a headset with an integrated microphone, the BTR5 uses this one instead of the integrated one (or both?).
This is for a 3.5SE input.
Did I get it right?
What about the balanced 2.5 input? Are there headphones with balanced cable that also have an integrated microphone?
Does the 2.5 input of BTR5 allow the connection of a microphone?


----------



## ClieOS

carpler said:


> A question about mic.
> The BTR5 integrates a microphone. If you use a headset with an integrated microphone, the BTR5 uses this one instead of the integrated one (or both?).
> This is for a 3.5SE input.
> Did I get it right?
> ...



For 3.5mm , it will use both. The mic on headset for voice, the mic on BTR5 for noise cancelling (*similar to the extra mic on top of smartphone that cancels noise).

For 2.5mm, only the mic on BTR5 will be used. It is impossible to support mic on a 2.5mm balanced connection, nor is there any balanced headphones with 2.5mm plug that has a mic.


----------



## ActuallySparky

carpler said:


> Thank you for the answer.
> Is there a way to know if it is supported by your smartphone (without owning the BTR5!)?


Your smartphone should list it as a feature. Go to the manufacturer website and look for a technical specs/details section and under wireless, most will list the Bluetooth codecs that are supported.


----------



## carpler

ActuallySparky said:


> Your smartphone should list it as a feature. Go to the manufacturer website and look for a technical specs/details section and under wireless, most will list the Bluetooth codecs that are supported.



On the manufacturer website and on many site with technical specs often about bluetooth there is only a generic "bluetooth 4.2".
I found the codecs supported on bluetoothcheck.com: I don't know if the information reported is reliable.
However, I just have to wait about a week to find out: I purchased the BTR5 from the official dealer in my country and it should be shipped shortly.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Mar 5, 2020)

I'd recommend to heading to a local tech dealer, take a sony bluetooth speaker like XB32 or similar and you can check it by yourself. 
It's the easiest way, imo.
Take note that there're 2 settings you have to check.
First is located in the bluetooth settings for the paired device.
The second can be found in developer settings where you mostly can set the bitrate of the ldac codec.


----------



## ActuallySparky

carpler said:


> ...I found the codecs supported on bluetoothcheck.com: I don't know if the information reported is reliable....


I don't think that site is super reliable. A lot of Apple devices don't list AAC that I know support it, and a few Android devices also are missing codecs I know I've used with them before.


----------



## HipHopScribe

carpler said:


> On the manufacturer website and on many site with technical specs often about bluetooth there is only a generic "bluetooth 4.2".
> I found the codecs supported on bluetoothcheck.com: I don't know if the information reported is reliable.
> However, I just have to wait about a week to find out: I purchased the BTR5 from the official dealer in my country and it should be shipped shortly.



What kind of phone do you have?


----------



## carpler

HipHopScribe said:


> What kind of phone do you have?



Honor 8 Pro


----------



## hmscott (Mar 6, 2020)

carpler said:


> Honor 8 Pro


"The Huawei Honor 8 Pro supports 5 Bluetooth A2DP audio codecs (aptX HD, LDAC, AAC, aptX, SBC)"
https://bluetoothcheck.com/d/huawei-honor-8-pro

*Details Update: see post 1177*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ptx-aptx-ll-aptx-hd-ldac.918298/post-15500558


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Question,

When I'm in wired USB DAC, does everything I play set to 44.1 ? I have a music file that is 24 Bit 192 when playing it I notice the BTR5 shows 44.1

I also notice I can only choose between 16 / 32. Am I missing something? Just Curious.


----------



## carpler

hmscott said:


> "The Huawei Honor 8 Pro supports 5 Bluetooth A2DP audio codecs (aptX HD, LDAC, AAC, aptX, SBC)"
> https://bluetoothcheck.com/d/huawei-honor-8-pro



yes, that's what I found too (I just mentioned the site name in my previous post).  I have no idea if the site is reliable.  I will find out next week when I receive the Btr5 ...


----------



## hifi80sman

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Question,
> 
> When I'm in wired USB DAC, does everything I play set to 44.1 ? I have a music file that is 24 Bit 192 when playing it I notice the BTR5 shows 44.1
> 
> I also notice I can only choose between 16 / 32. Am I missing something? Just Curious.


You should be able to go 384 kHz / 32-bit.  If you have the FiiO driver installed, try uninstalling it and rolling with the default windows driver (I had no issues running it at 384 kHz / 32-bit with the default Windows driver).


----------



## HipHopScribe

carpler said:


> Honor 8 Pro



I think Honor phones got LDAC with the Oreo update, not 100% sure


----------



## ClieOS

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Question,
> 
> When I'm in wired USB DAC, does everything I play set to 44.1 ? I have a music file that is 24 Bit 192 when playing it I notice the BTR5 shows 44.1
> 
> I also notice I can only choose between 16 / 32. Am I missing something? Just Curious.



Remember to set BTR5 to USB Audio Class 2.


----------



## Forsaked

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Question,
> 
> When I'm in wired USB DAC, does everything I play set to 44.1 ? I have a music file that is 24 Bit 192 when playing it I notice the BTR5 shows 44.1
> 
> I also notice I can only choose between 16 / 32. Am I missing something? Just Curious.



I had the same issue, installing the Fiio USB-Driver while the BTR5 is not connected, resolved it. 
After that i was able to choose from 16/44.1 up to 384/32. 

Don't set your system to 384/32, leave it at 16/44.1 or 24/48, else some games and apps won't have any sound. 
When you install the Fiio USB-Driver you also get the ASIO-Driver with it. 
Just use the ASIO or WASAPI-Driver as your Output-Device in your Music-Player to get the nativ resolution for Music playback.


----------



## ActuallySparky (Mar 6, 2020)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> When I'm in wired USB DAC, does everything I play set to 44.1 ? I have a music file that is 24 Bit 192 when playing it I notice the BTR5 shows 44.1



I had a similar problem. When I connect to my Mac by either a USB-C>USB-C cable or USB-A>USB-C cable the BTR5 always reports 44.1 even when I'm playing a higher resolution file. I also tried putting the BTR5 into USB1.0 mode just to see if that would help, but no matter what I do, the max it will report on the screen is that it's 44.1khz.

That being said, I suspect it is handling higher bitrate PCM streams from the computer. When I play higher res 16bit depth files, I do hear the expanded dynamic range that I expect from those files.

If anyone knows of a Mac or PC utility that can help me poke around on the OS side to see exactly what's being sent to an external USB DAC I'd be happy to experiment and report back on actual data re: bit depth.


----------



## ActuallySparky

Forsaked said:


> I had the same issue, installing the Fiio USB-Driver while the BTR5 is not connected, resolved it.



Oh interesting - I assumed it was plug and play. Is https://fiio.com/Driver_Download the only source for these drivers? The DAC driver only appears to be available on Windows - sad news if true for us primary Mac users...


----------



## hmscott (Mar 6, 2020)

carpler said:


> yes, that's what I found too (I just mentioned the site name in my previous post).  I have no idea if the site is reliable.  I will find out next week when I receive the Btr5 ...


Yup, I had read your comments, and I was in the middle of adding more details to that post but I got distracted, so I am back now adding more details. 


carpler said:


> Is there a way to know if it is supported by your smartphone (without owning the BTR5!)?


In Developer Options you can view "Bluetooth Audio Codec" supported options without a BT device connected, at least I am able to view it with BT off on my Note 10+ running

So, IDK if this is encouraging, but here's a participation Q&A for you, does that "Bluetooth Audio Codec dialog on your Honor 8 Pro look like this?:




That view is from an Honor 8 Pro in 08/2018, so perhaps an update added LDAC by now?

If not, try clicking "Enable Optional Codecs" - IDK if it will show additional Codec's, or take another action - like loading additional Codecs you've installed - I haven't dug into that, but it would help if you can Answer back as to what you see now before I start looking around for more details.

That image is from:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/honor-8-pro/help/ldac-honor-8-pro-t3833087


----------



## hmscott (Mar 6, 2020)

I've noticed something interesting, it turns out that if the BTR5 gets *really* hot I can hear distortion in the audio where there was none while at normal operating temperatures.

I was watching "Midway" (on DVD) while enjoying the sweet BTR5 sound and after about an hour and a half I heard distortion in the explosions and gunfire sound effects I hadn't earlier in the movie, I looked around for my BTR5 and my IEM cable was running between my pillows, I pulled out the BTR5 and it was red hot - like "ouch" hot to the touch.

BTW, the BTR5 was running in DAC mode with Charge On, and the BTR5 was in the plastic clip which I've noticed also makes the BT5 run a bit hotter.

So I pulled off the plastic clip, and used the PC air intake to draw cool air over the BTR5 until the outside felt at room temperature, and the audio sounded much better but the BTR5 must have still been toasty inside as I could hear a little distortion - I thought I might have cooked the BTR5.

Thank goodness the audio distortion went away after a few minutes of additional cooling.  I am now running the BTR5 with Charge Off and the clip removed.  The BTR5 is running at close to room temperature and the sound stage seems wider in addition to the audio being crisp and clear with no distortion.

When I was first checking out the BTR5 I'd noticed the BTR5 runs cooler outside the clip, but I have been using the BTR5 with the clip attached for all of my listening since then.  So there wasn't a chance or reason for me to A/B the audio quality with / without the clip.  The BTR5 really is much smaller without the clip.

I was looking forward to the DD leather case arriving - it finally shipped yesterday - but now I am a bit concerned that the BTR5 in a leather case might hold in a lot of heat.  I'll have to listen for distortion after the BTR5 heats up while in the leather case.

I had previously wondered if running the BTR5 in DAC mode on battery only all the time - with Charge Off - might be better for the BTR5's longevity as the BTR5 runs much cooler that way - even with the clip on.

I'm pretty sure the BTR5 will sound fine with / without clip / case and with / without Charge On as long as I don't bury the BTR5 between my pillows again.   I hadn't noticed any audio quality differences before this - even after running for hours with clip on and Charge On. But, for now I will continue to run Charge off / clipless while in DAC mode - until I have time for A/B thermal testing in different configurations.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 6, 2020)

ActuallySparky said:


> Oh interesting - I assumed it was plug and play. Is https://fiio.com/Driver_Download the only source for these drivers? The DAC driver only appears to be available on Windows - sad news if true for us primary Mac users...


I would like to add that I used the BTR5 in DAC mode on a Windows 10 3700x PC without the drivers when I first received the BTR5, and I still am using the BTR5 that way today.

At one point I did try installing the FiiO drivers / rebooting for them to take effect, and the BTR5 sound got much worse.  As I didn't have a lot of time to debug it at the time I uninstalled the Fiio drivers, rebooted and the BTR5 sound returned to normal.  I usually disconnect a device before installing drivers for it, but I might have already had the BTR5 connected.  I did see 44.1 in the BTR5 display, and it sounded terrible as compared to what I was used to with no drivers and 384 showing in the BTR5 display.

I may play around with the FiiO Windows drivers again some day, but at this point I am running 32/384 and the BTR5 sounds amazing already with no FiiO drivers in DAC mode on a Windows 10 PC and a Note 10+ Android 10, so I haven't really been motivated to go back and try reinstalling the Fiio Windows drivers again.


----------



## Yukicore

hmscott said:


> ...
> 
> So I pulled off the plastic clip, and used the PC air intake to draw cool air over the BTR5 until the outside felt at room temperature, and the audio sounded much better but the BTR5 must have still been toasty inside as I could hear a little distortion - I thought I might have cooked the BTR5.
> 
> ...



First of all, thanks for the heads up, second of all, what volume level and for how long, and if 2.5mm (with dual AMP) or 3.5mm (with single AMP) output was used, and finally, third of all, what have You've been smoking, "... BTR5 without the clip too - the sound stage seems wider in addition to the audio being crisp and clear with no distortion. ... ", am I misinterpreting something, but You made it sound like You believe removing the clip opens up sound stage and makes the device sound more crisp and clear, lmao. 

Not sure if the BTR5 cases are Leather or Leatherette, but most definitely it's going to be a thermal insulator, and would be from 4 to 7 times worse at conducting heat and getting it away from the device, so in Your case (no pun intended) it would have cooked up even faster. In normal conditions, I'm not sure if the heat would or wouldn't evaporate away if the conditions were normal, probably would. (source: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)

And, generally with lithium batteries, it's best to use them in ranges from 40-80%, so, yeah, it would be bad for longevity to leave it charging all the time, but it would be quite difficult and cumbersome to manage otherwise.


----------



## grandros

hmscott said:


> I've noticed something interesting, it turns out that if the BTR5 gets *really* hot I can hear distortion in the audio where there was none while at normal operating temperatures.
> 
> I was watching "Midway" (on DVD) and enjoying the sweet BTR5 sound and after about an hour and a half I heard distortion in the explosions and gunfire sound effects I hadn't earlier in the movie, I looked around for my BTR5 and my IEM cable was running between my pillows, I pulled out the BTR5 and it was red hot - like ouch hot.
> 
> ...



I had the exact same issue three  times with mine and I believe that the problem was a static electricity discharge due to poor grounding of the PC that was connected. Never happend during bluetooth connection or while connected in my laptop that has DC supply. I can not explain the this problem but maybe your pillows created static charge and because of the small size of PCB something shorts the circuit. At list, if you shut it down for 5 minutes until cools down, everything works perfectly again. I also have the leather case and the temperature is not an issue.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 6, 2020)

Yukicore said:


> First of all, thanks for the heads up, second of all, what volume level and for how long, and if 2.5mm (with dual AMP) or 3.5mm (with single AMP) output was used


2.5mm, on L Gain, volume about 22-26 into a pair of KZ ZSX IEM's, delivering a loud action movie volume.  Even when running in open air (clip attached) - not buried in between two pillows - the BTR runs hot at that volume level while also Charging the battery.


> "... BTR5 without the clip too - the sound stage seems wider in addition to the audio being crisp and clear with no distortion. ... ", am I misinterpreting something, but You made it sound like You believe removing the clip opens up sound stage and makes the device sound more crisp and clear, lmao.


I've updated the text for a more clear delivery:
"Thank goodness the audio distortion went away after a few minutes of additional cooling.  I am now running the BTR5 with Charge Off and the clip removed.  The BTR5 is running at close to room temperature and the sound stage seems wider in addition to the audio being crisp and clear with no distortion."


> Not sure if the BTR5 cases are Leather or Leatherette, but most definitely it's going to be a thermal insulator, and would be from 4 to 7 times worse at conducting heat and getting it away from the device, so in Your case (no pun intended) it would have cooked up even faster. In normal conditions, I'm not sure if the heat would or wouldn't evaporate away if the conditions were normal, probably would. And, generally with lithium batteries, it's best to use them in ranges from 40-80%, so, yeah, it would be bad for longevity to leave it charging all the time, but it would be quite difficult and cumbersome to manage otherwise.


That's what I meant about running the BTR5 with Charge Off to increase longevity - the battery longevity - reducing the operating temperature into the safe range for charging.

Questions and answers related to lithium-ion rechargeable battery care
"_The use of a lithium-ion battery is possible in a temperature range of 10°C to *+55°C*. However, the charging should take place only at a battery temperature of +5°C to +*45°C*. The ideal temperature range of the batteries is room temperature._"

The more I think about it, the more I like running with Charge Off...except there's a funny gotcha when you do that.  More about that in another post.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 6, 2020)

grandros said:


> I had the exact same issue three  times with mine and I believe that the problem was a static electricity discharge due to poor grounding of the PC that was connected. Never happend during bluetooth connection or while connected in my laptop that has DC supply. I can not explain the this problem but maybe your pillows created static charge and because of the small size of PCB something shorts the circuit. At list, if you shut it down for 5 minutes until cools down, everything works perfectly again. I also have the leather case and the temperature is not an issue.


You had audio distortion 3 times?  Due to running hot?, or you think maybe static electricity?  How so?

I'm pretty sure the distortion I heard was due to the BTR5 running *hot*, like really really **hot**, due to being trapped between the pillows. I didn't specifically mention that I was laying on the pillows with my weight crushing the pillows together with the BTR5 between them. So no heat could escape and no air was flowing over the BTR5 to cool it... for about 100 minutes.  That BTR5 was "steaming" hot.

I'm thinking that I will only run the BTR5 on battery - no charging while delivering sound - to keep the temperature as low as possible while using the BTR5 and also while charging the BTR5.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 7, 2020)

You are all gonna love this one - it explains the BTR5 "crashes" and "lock-ups" and "gibberish" on the screen of the BTR5 some have reported, and it is due to a design omission akin to painting yourself into a corner.  

The BTR5 firmware doesn't reserve a few percent of battery life to allow you to maintain control over the BTR5, it lets the battery discharge down to Zero and dies while running on battery with Charge set to Off.

When you try to turn the BTR5 back on the voltage isn't stable enough to successfully boot the BTR5, the display might show gibberish - mine did - and then the display goes dark, and the BTR5 appears to be "locked up"... just like so many have reported.

Of course the BTR5 does all of those things, because the battery is dead.

And then the realization occurs... OMG! how am I going to get out of this conundrum?  The BTR5 has Charge set to Off, it's out of power and it won't turn back on, so how can I reset the BTR5 Charge to On?

Simple, when powered off the BTR5 "OS" isn't running, the BTR5 will charge the battery while off.  In fact it only took about 30 seconds on the charger (25w Samsung charger) then I could power on the BTR5 and *quickly* change Charge to On.

Even if you have Charge set to On, if the BTR5 runs it's battery completely down to Zero charge while in BT mode the BTR5 might not be able to power on right away after you plug in a charging cable - it may take at least a few minutes until the BTR5 battery has enough charge to Power On and boot stably.

Mystery solved, maybe FiiO can fix this BTR5 behavior by programming in a low battery power off that overrides usage until you start charging it again.  Maybe even display "Time to Charge Me, Please"


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Dumb Question here. What happens if I connect / use the BTR5 as USB DAC when its connected to my Phone / BT?

If I'm using the BTR5 as USB DAC for my Computer, Does it Auto Disconnect / Shuts Off the BT? 
Does the BT connect still remains when using as a wired USB DAC?


----------



## ClieOS

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Dumb Question here. What happens if I connect / use the BTR5 as USB DAC when its connected to my Phone / BT?
> 
> If I'm using the BTR5 as USB DAC for my Computer, Does it Auto Disconnect / Shuts Off the BT?
> Does the BT connect still remains when using as a wired USB DAC?



Whether BT or USB takes priority can be set via app.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 7, 2020)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Dumb Question here. What happens if I connect / use the BTR5 as USB DAC when its connected to my Phone / BT?


If the BTR5 is set to USB DAC Priority (not the default out of the box) the BTR5 stays connected via BT to whatever device it has established a connection, but the BTR5 "silences" the BT device and only plays audio through the USB DAC connection - until you disconnect the USB cable and then the BTR5 switches to the audio coming from the BT device.

Out of the box the BTR5 is set to Bluetooth Priority, if you connect the BTR5 with USB cable to a device capable of establishing a USB DAC Audio connection the BTR5 will ignore that USB device if you already have a Bluetooth connection established.  In that case the BTR5 will charge with power from the USB cable, if you have Charge=On set in the BTR5, which is also the default out of the box setting.


> If I'm using the BTR5 as USB DAC for my Computer, Does it Auto Disconnect / Shuts Off the BT?


No, the BTR5 maintains the BT connection, but the BT connection is not usable until you disconnect the USB DAC audio connection.

Although I have not tried it, the BTR5 may switch to the BT connection if the USB DAC Audio signal disconnects from the source - even though the USB cable is still connected.  That example is something I have not tried yet, but be aware that may be possible.

Another related gotcha.  If you have your BTR5 set to auto-power-off after say 3 minutes (that's my setting), and the BTR5 has a BT connection to a device or a USB DAC Audio connection to a device then the BTR5 auto-power-off considers the BTR5 "active" and is never tripped

BTR5 auto-power-off is useful only if you "disconnect" your devices from the BTR5 as when you power off your PC connected via USB and the USB DAC Audio connection ends, and you turn off BT on your phone or other BT device, so that the BTR5 is then left powered on but without a device connected - then auto-power-off trips after the delay you set, and the BTR5 powers off.

Idle audio from connected devices is not considered a auto-power-off condition - if the BTR5 is still "actively" connected to a device it won't trip auto-power-off.


> Does the BT connect still remains when using as a wired USB DAC?


Yes, but you can't use the connected BT device while the BTR5 is in USB DAC Priority mode and connected to a USB Cable that provides a USB DAC Audio connection.  For example I can continue using my BT connected device even if I have a USB Power Adapter connected to the BTR5 for charging only.

The rest of my answer is long, but I wanted to cover all of the gotcha's I've experienced so far, as the BTR5 BT/DAC modes can be confusing or frustrating when trying to figure this out on your own the first time through.  I will put the long text between spoiler brackets so as to not block everyone's mobile reading of the thread - you need to click Spoiler in Blue to see what I wrote...


Spoiler



As answered by others the choosing of BT or DAC priority can only be set for the BTR5 in the apps, and the default priority is BT first - if there is a paired BT device the BTR5 will auto-reconnect to the BT device, if not the BTR5  stays in "Reconnect" until you connect a USB DAC device, then the BTR5 will connect to it.

I found the default of BT Priority useless for me as I wanted to be able to automatically switch between USB DAC audio and BT audio, and once connected to a BT device the BTR5 will ignore the USB DAC audio stream and only use the USB connection for charging (if you have the BTR5 Charge = On).  BT Priority mode was less useful to me if I had to go to all of my BT devices and disable BT before starting to use USB DAC audio.

If a BT device comes into "view" the BTR5 will auto-reconnect to that BT device even if you are in DAC Mode, which made the BT priority mode behavior less useful for my own personal use.  But, if you want to switch over to your phone's BT for a call you could enable BT on your phone when you want to make or take a call - which would then cause the BTR5 to automatically connect to the phone while listening on the USB DAC - leaving BT off on all your devices otherwise to allow the BTR5 to connect via USB DAC.

If the BTR5 is set to DAC Priority, when you are walking around listening to your Phone BT or PC BT - and you sit down and connect your BTR5 to a USB DAC cable on your PC or USB DAC on your phone, the BTR5 will switch to processing audio on USB and "silence" but not disconnect from your BT device - this can be confusing - as you won't actually be able to use the BT device while connected using USB DAC audio - but if you pull out the USB Cable from the BTR5 it will switch to the already connected BT device or "Reconnect" to another available BT device if the BTR5 was not already connected to a BT device.

Yes, it can get confusing.  You can get into a state in either Priority Mode where you don't immediately get your desired effect.  There are work arounds - or working steps - you can take to get the desired effect easily.

Here are some examples under DAC Priority, the mode I've decided to use, and I do describe BT Priority and why I don't use it as well:

1)  When using my PC I leave my PC BT on, that way I can connect to PC USB in DAC mode simply by connecting the PC USB cable - the BTR5 automatically switches to DAC from BT and I can enjoy either DAC or BT just by connecting or disconnecting the USB cable physically - I don't need to do anything else in software, with one exception...

2) I have to make sure that BT is off on any other device than the PC while I am enjoying listening on my PC.  Otherwise the BTR5 may use BT mode with another device instead of the PC when I disconnect the USB cable connected to the PC.  Which can be confusing, although helpful if you want to switch to your phone when not on PC USB.

3) You may have already figured out this next example, purposely disable BT on your PC so when you disconnect from PC USB DAC your BTR5 will be ready to go mobile connected to your Phone via BT- you will need to disable BT on your PC and only have your Phone BT enabled so that the BTR5 only see's one device available on BT - the reconnect is "random" if you have more than one BT device active.

4) It an get confusing, yes, and it would be "better" if the BTR5 could be connected to more than one BT device at a time along with DAC USB mode priority, such that you could get "calls" while on USB DAC mode without having to disconnect the USB cable from the PC, or if you were to be able to prioritize the BT devices you could default to PC BT while at home (after disconnecting the USB cable) and the BTR5 would switch from PC BT to Phone BT if the phone can interrupt with an incoming call - like I've used on Plantronics devices for years, but the BTR5 doesn't have this dual connected BT order priority feature.

5) What happens if the BTR5 is on USB DAC priority and you are using the Phone USB connection?  Same thing.  Disconnect the Phone USB cable from the BTR5 and the BTR5 will switch to it's BT connection - likely most usefully to your Phone's BT so you can disconnect the cable from the phone and be mobile with your phone on BT.

6) Why didn't I pick BT Priority?  It would require me to turn off BT on my devices (all of them) in order for the USB DAC audio connection to work.  And, I found I needed to disconnect the USB cable and reconnect the USB cable again if I forgot to turn off BT on *any* of my BT devices before connecting the USB DAC audio cable, as BT Priority means just that - the BTR5 will ignore the USB data connection if the BTR5 can connect to any BT device it has paired with - the BTR5 might even try to pair with an unknown BT device even if you are already connected on USB DAC if one comes in range... I don't know for sure about this last situation as I haven't tried it, but it just came to mind as a possibility.

The one critical advantage of BT Priority is if you charge your BTR5 via USB cable connected to a device that will support USB DAC and you wish the BTR5 to continue using BT while charging off of that USB DAC mode capable device.  As if the BTR5 automatically switched to USB DAC mode while charging only is desired you might miss BT phone calls.  This might be where BT Priority is useful, but it's not useful enough for me.

On USB DAC Priority if you want to use your BT Phone for calls on BT you need to physically disconnect the USB cable from your PC or Phone (yup) in order to take or make a call on BT.  The good thing is if you do disconnect the USB DAC cable from your PC or Phone to take a call on BT the BTR5 will automatically switch to BT once the USB DAC cable is disconnected.

One more related gotcha - you need to remember if you have Charge=On or Charge=Off when charging the BTR5... 

Charge = ON is required to Charge the BTR5 via a USB-C cable connected from a power adapter, I use a 25w Samsung adapter.  If you have Charge = Off no USB connection will power or recharge the BTR5.  I know that sounds obvious, but what if you are listening to a BT device via your BTR5 and you connect your BTR5 to a power adapter thinking "hey I might as well charge my BTR5 so I can use it longer later"... nope the BTR5 will just ignore that USB power.  So if you want to charge your BTR5 with Charge=Off, you must Turn Off your BTR5 before any USB power will work.  It's easy to forget what mode your BTR5 is in, so you have to consciously remember to Power Off your BTR5 in order to charge it when Charge=Off.

I know that was long, but I wanted to cover all the gotcha's I've experienced, as it can be confusing or frustrating trying to figure this out on your own the first time through.

If you can't understand something as I've said it please ask right away. Thank you.


On my BTR5 I use USB DAC Priority Mode, I'd love to hear if anyone uses BT Priority Mode and why you find that more useful.  I do use USB DAC audio often.  Perhaps most people only want their BTR5 for Bluetooth use, and that is why BT Priority Mode is the default.

For example, if a BTR5 owner unfamiliar with USB DAC audio connects their BTR5 to their PC or phone to charge the BTR5, in BT Priority the music will continue over BT while the BTR5 charges - instead of  the BTR5 confusingly switching to a USB DAC audio connection as well as charging.

We BTR5 USB DAC audio users can switch the BTR5 into USB DAC Priority to use the BTR5 as we need it to operate, allowing USB DAC Audio more readily.


----------



## Dentex

ASIO still not active on my desktop running Win10... I can see only 44.1K even with higher sample rate. Any help is appreciated. 

Ps: I have managed to change the rate on the sound properties (in Win10) manually but the ASIO still not active.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 7, 2020)

For the first time I tried my BTR5 as wired DAC/Amp via USBC.  Not sure how I got it into a strange state but after sounding great it then became hollow, tinny, and muted, whether via BT or wired.  It also showed a phone icon on its screen which I had never seen before.  I tried the factory reset but no joy.  I then updated the firmware and everything went back to normal.  I have a bunch of portable and/or  dongle DAC/amps (9038s, Hidizs S8, minidsp il-dsp, ES100, xDSD, PowerDAC v2, Hidizs DH1000) so I think I will just stick to using my BTR5 in BT mode!


----------



## ActuallySparky (Mar 11, 2020)

Now that I've had the BTR5 for a couple of weeks, I wanted to write up some thoughts on it vs the Radsone ES-100 and the Shanling UP4. New to head-fi, so let me know if this is the wrong place for this kind of post.

*The lineup*







Left to right: Radsone ES100, Shanling UP4, and the Fiio BTR5

*Sound quality over bluetooth*
Bluetooth is my primary use case for this kind of device - I'm on the go a lot, and need a way to get reasonably high-quality audio out of my phone. This review is strongly tilted to IEM use - I do almost no listening to full sized headphones, so can't offer thoughts on their performance.

The ES100 and BTR5 are roughly on par sound wise via their balanced output, although the ES100 has the better unbalanced output. The sound on both is clean and there's no noticeable coloration. The ES100 has the lowest noise floor of the group. It's honestly impressive how good these two sound - I'm amazed at how good Bluetooth has gotten since it was introduced over a decade ago. Sure I can hear a few audio artifacts, but only if I listen in a quiet environment with IEMs that cost significantly more than either unit.

I found the pairing was mostly environmentally-sensitive. When on the go, there's a lot of noise, so brasher IEMs with a good seal work better. The Campfire Audio Polaris was my favorite (although the poor isolation made it a no-go in louder locations), but I also enjoyed the TRN V90 and the TinHiFi T2/T4. At home, both DAC/AMPs do a better job than I was expecting of driving more neutral IEMs like the DK-2001s. Even over bluetooth it's faithful to a fair level of detail and a smooth listen.

The UP4 loses in the audio quality category - it suffers some noise and has a hiss on more sensitive IEMs. I found listening to music on it sharp and fatiguing, although using it to listen to conference calls wasn't bad. Since it's the same price as the ES100 and noticeably worse at its primary function, I can't recommend it.

I didn't do very much testing using these via USB. I have better headphone sources for desktop use, so it was mostly a perfunctory check. All three were plug and play for redbook audio. Hi-def audio was iffy if it worked depending on which computer and OS I plugged them into. HMScott has a bunch of great posts about USB mode, so look for those for more insight into getting it working and qualitative thoughts on this mode.

*Build quality and ergonomics*
The BTR5 is the clear winner in this category. The smooth aluminum and glass enclosure feels solid and well designed in the hand. It's a _satisfying object_. I like that the BTR5 gives me a choice of if I want a clip or not, and which orientation I want that clip to face.

The ES100 is well put together, but it's very utilitarian. I have no complaints about its build quality or how durable it feels, but it is plasticky.

Both the UP4 and BTR5 put the outputs on one of the small faces. I think this provides better ergonomics with most earphones and attachments. The side outputs on the ES100 are serviceable, but with some earphone connectors can have a cord protruding at a weird angle.

I like the UP4's little wheel; it's a satisfying way to change volume.


----------



## lucasd

Charging seems broken.
When I only listen on BT or charging from disabled state the unit is cold (around 20C).
However, when I charge when the unit in powered on state, even not listening to anything, the unit is getting hot (>40C).
It seems something is not working properly (firmware), as in such case the unit could be slightly warmer...


----------



## headsman

Is there a better way. to connect the BTR5 to a lanyard than sticking a big ring on the back? Lord i wish it had a little pass through in the casing somewhere.


----------



## hifi80sman

headsman said:


> Is there a better way. to connect the BTR5 to a lanyard than sticking a big ring on the back? Lord i wish it had a little pass through in the casing somewhere.


Fanny pack?


----------



## ClieOS

headsman said:


> Is there a better way. to connect the BTR5 to a lanyard than sticking a big ring on the back? Lord i wish it had a little pass through in the casing somewhere.



Didn't the transparent shirt clip already has a hole on the clip for lanyard? Alternatively, get the official leather case and punch a hole into it.


----------



## zolom

See 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ptx-aptx-ll-aptx-hd-ldac.918298/post-15481421


----------



## carpler

I am still waiting to receive my BTR5 (I think that all shipments to my country have slowed down), but while waiting I ask you something.
For the installation of the USB DAC drivers on a Windows PC, the official manual recommends turning on the device and installing the driver WHILE the device is connected to the PC. However several post in this thread reccomends to install the drivers WITHOUT the device connected.
Can anyone clarify what is the best way to proceed?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Installing the drivers before connecting the device is a safe bet.
I did it that way and all runs smooth and as intented.


----------



## ActuallySparky (Mar 10, 2020)

headsman said:


> Is there a better way. to connect the BTR5 to a lanyard than sticking a big ring on the back? Lord i wish it had a little pass through in the casing somewhere.


Alas not really. The Earstudio has a little hole in it for clipping to a lanyard, but the BTR5 is smooth and monolithic.

EDIT: As someone else pointed out, the clippy case thing for the BTR5 does have a hole that a lanyard would work with. I don't use the clip much so I don't know how securely it really holds the BTR5 if its going to be swinging around.


----------



## ccrys (Mar 10, 2020)

Has anyone tested differences between bluetooth (ldac) and wired ? I found a difference at Anette Askvik - Liberty 1:07 (Tidal), the bell sounds more clearly via wired connection.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

ActuallySparky said:


> Alas not really. The Earstudio has a little hole in it for clipping to a lanyard, but the BTR5 is smooth and monolithic.
> 
> EDIT: As someone else pointed out, the clippy case thing for the BTR5 does have a hole that a lanyard would work with. I don't use the clip much so I don't know how securely it really holds the BTR5 if its going to be swinging around.


The fit of the plaatic case is rock solid.
There's no fear about losing things.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 12, 2020)

lucasd said:


> Charging seems broken.
> When I only listen on BT or charging from disabled state the unit is cold (around 20C).
> However, when I charge when the unit in powered on state, even not listening to anything, the unit is getting hot (>40C).
> It seems something is not working properly (firmware), as in such case the unit could be slightly warmer...


I've noticed the same thing and I prefer to run the BTR5 battery cool during charging and drain, so I've started disabling charging (Charge=Off) while using the BTR5 and only charging with the BTR5 powered off.

@FiiO - I was wondering if the BTR5 temps when charging while in operation is something that the engineers can tune to reduce temperatures?  I don't need high current high voltage rapid charging while I am listening to the BTR5 - I'm sure a trickle charge would be enough to keep the BTR5 topped off when full (most of the time), and even if the BTR5 battery is low when running + charging the BTR5 could be a little less aggressive in restoring full charge.  Thanks for checking this out @FiiO


----------



## progdvd

Guess what? My BTR5 has just been stolen. I met with friend in a bar, and when he came I've put iems in a case and in my pocket, and totally forgot about BTR5, I left it on the sofa. After we left an hour later when I realised it's not in my pocket I went back there. Needles to say waiter doesn't know anything, no one reported  it and it's not there on the sofa.
I cannot describe how I'm feeling right now. Yes it's my fault but still I wanna get drunk and start a fight right now.
Take good care of your gear, it hurts a lot when something like this happens. I am always very careful, but this time I messed up


----------



## Sioban

Started to feel worried that I am going to ruin my 3,5 mm audio out on my new laptop by accidentally bumping my hand into the male connector from time to time.
So I just bought the BTR5 from https://www.fiio.eu/ 

Do any of you guys know if that site is legit? Are there any better deals to be had for a person living in the northern "communist" parts of Europe?


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Mar 10, 2020)

It should be. 
If you're struggling with it, go to Fiio-shop.de .
This is where i've bought mine.

But it shows out of stock atm.


----------



## acbarn

progdvd said:


> Guess what? My BTR5 has just been stolen. I met with friend in a bar, and when he came I've put iems in a case and in my pocket, and totally forgot about BTR5, I left it on the sofa. After we left an hour later when I realised it's not in my pocket I went back there. Needles to say waiter doesn't know anything, no one reported  it and it's not there on the sofa.
> I cannot describe how I'm feeling right now. Yes it's my fault but still I wanna get drunk and start a fight right now.
> Take good care of your gear, it hurts a lot when something like this happens. I am always very careful, but this time I messed up



Ah, bummer. I left an expensive camera on the seat of a cab in Cancun many moons ago. I feel your pain.


----------



## hifi80sman

progdvd said:


> Guess what? My BTR5 has just been stolen. I met with friend in a bar, and when he came I've put iems in a case and in my pocket, and totally forgot about BTR5, I left it on the sofa. After we left an hour later when I realised it's not in my pocket I went back there. Needles to say waiter doesn't know anything, no one reported  it and it's not there on the sofa.
> I cannot describe how I'm feeling right now. Yes it's my fault but still I wanna get drunk and start a fight right now.
> Take good care of your gear, it hurts a lot when something like this happens. I am always very careful, but this time I messed up


At least you didn't lose your wife's wedding ring...


----------



## jsmiller58

hifi80sman said:


> At least you didn't lose your wife's wedding ring...


Oh, now there’s a story that has to be told...!


----------



## progdvd

hifi80sman said:


> At least you didn't lose your wife's wedding ring...



You won't believe this but I lost the ring too. Lol.
I lost it doing some work around the house. She was surprisingly OK with it  but 2 years later I found it exactly where I thought it slipped. I was just too lazy to move literally a ton of stuff I put on top of it....  true story.

Either way f.. k it, new BTR5 is on the way.


----------



## tomwebster

Has anyone else had any problems with the 2.5mm jack on their BTR5?

Have had mine since December and have been really enjoying the unit. Great sound both over Bluetooth and also wired from iPhone.

In the last few weeks however the 2.5mm jack has been having problems. It seems to be slightly loose and so even the slightest movement results in the sound breaking up. This makes the 2.5mm jack pretty much unusable when out and about. If kept absoluitely still it is fine. Have reverted to using the 3.5 jack with an adapter for my balanced IEM cables.

Have raised it with Fiio support but they can't replace it without me first sending it back to China for inspection which will leave me without a unit for quite a while I would imagine. Interested to know if anyone else has had the same problem or not.

Great unit otherwise.


----------



## psikey

tomwebster said:


> Has anyone else had any problems with the 2.5mm jack on their BTR5?
> 
> Have had mine since December and have been really enjoying the unit. Great sound both over Bluetooth and also wired from iPhone.
> 
> ...



No issues with mine yet but not a heavy user.


----------



## G_T_J

Does anyone have a comparison with DX160?


----------



## G_T_J

psikey said:


> It most certainly does. My V30 has now been sold and so has my A105, R5, Dragonfly Cobalt. Also returned a ZX507 but only due to EU volume cap killing it.
> 
> V30 is great as a music phone but not against great DAC/AMPs.


Would you be able to compare it with ZX507 in terms of pure sound quality?


----------



## mfaverooo

Hi!

I saw that it was answered before that in SE only one dac from the BTR5 will be used, while both will be used in the balanced output. I have a 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5SE adaptor, which basically just cancels the output from R- and L- before it arrives in the SE 3.5mm connector. Is it worth using it for my earphones, besides the extra output power from balanced? In another words, will the dual-dac make a difference?

I ask that because I have a shanling m0, and although the btr5 have dual oscilators, is a hard sell to buy one of those things if I'm going to use the same dac in a very similar configuration. Of course, voice support is a plus but even though... I'd just like to know if I'll have any improvement on SQ.


----------



## hifi80sman

mfaverooo said:


> Hi!
> 
> I saw that it was answered before that in SE only one dac from the BTR5 will be used, while both will be used in the balanced output. I have a 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5SE adaptor, which basically just cancels the output from R- and L- before it arrives in the SE 3.5mm connector. Is it worth using it for my earphones, besides the extra output power from balanced? In another words, will the dual-dac make a difference?
> 
> I ask that because I have a shanling m0, and although the btr5 have dual oscilators, is a hard sell to buy one of those things if I'm going to use the same dac in a very similar configuration. Of course, voice support is a plus but even though... I'd just like to know if I'll have any improvement on SQ.


I don't use IEMs much and the ones I have a decidedly mid-fi (which are still quite enjoyable), so for me, I always go for more power to drive my full-sized headphones, assuming the implementation is good.  You _may _experience better dynamics, but that's a rabbit hole debate.  I would try both and see which setup you prefer.  In the end, your opinion is the only one that matters.


----------



## LOPO1985

Hi im quite new here but i had so many daps and iems and i bought this dac because my note 10+ doesn't have jack. Sound of this little fella is very good and i like how it sounds with my dn2000j but i don't understand what are those filter options used for.


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 12, 2020)

tomwebster said:


> Has anyone else had any problems with the 2.5mm jack on their BTR5?
> ...



I have one of the first unit here in the forum and  pretty much only used the 2.5mm output, so far it is perfectly fine.

My guess is the 2.5mm socket of your unit probably at some point getting too much mechanical stress and the soldering joint is on its way out. Better send it back for repair.



mfaverooo said:


> I have a 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5SE adaptor, which basically just cancels the output from R- and L- before it arrives in the SE 3.5mm connector. Is it worth using it for my earphones, besides the extra output power from balanced? In another words, will the dual-dac make a difference?
> ..



It *DOES NOT* cancel the R- and L-, but short-circuit them.That adapter will only serve to damage whatever 2.5mm output you are trying to connect to. *Please throw it away for your own good.*

For detail explanation, see the link in my signature.


----------



## hifi80sman (Mar 12, 2020)

Edit


----------



## psikey

G_T_J said:


> Would you be able to compare it with ZX507 in terms of pure sound quality?



The ZX507 I had was volume capped so don't know if it affected sound quality too but I'd say its no better SQ than the BTR5, just a different flavour with the Sony sound tuning. 

If I didn't want to use with my phone and not using demanding headphones/IEM's I'd choose the ZX507 (uncapped version) as my DAP because its also a lovely design/weight/size.
If you want high-end sound on a budget and best BT LDAC audio to-date then the BTR5 is the winner.


----------



## G_T_J

psikey said:


> The ZX507 I had was volume capped so don't know if it affected sound quality too but I'd say its no better SQ than the BTR5, just a different flavour with the Sony sound tuning.
> 
> If I didn't want to use with my phone and not using demanding headphones/IEM's I'd choose the ZX507 (uncapped version) as my DAP because its also a lovely design/weight/size.
> If you want high-end sound on a budget and best BT LDAC audio to-date then the BTR5 is the winner.


Great insight


----------



## ActuallySparky (Mar 13, 2020)

mfaverooo said:


> ... I have a 2.5mm male balanced to 3.5SE adaptor, which basically just cancels the output from R- and L- before it arrives in the SE 3.5mm connector. Is it worth using it for my earphones, besides the extra output power from balanced?...


I thought that using an adapter like this was dangerous and could lead to burning out the amplification device because you're basically shorting out the positive and negative through the shared ground? I'm hardly an expert though, so take this with a grain of salt.


----------



## ActuallySparky

LOPO1985 said:


> Hi im quite new here but i had so many daps and iems and i bought this dac because my note 10+ doesn't have jack. Sound of this little fella is very good and i like how it sounds with my dn2000j but i don't understand what are those filter options used for.


Don't worry too much about the filter options. They make a very, very subtle impact on sound. I've heard that the non-symmetrical ones can lead to less fatigue on long-term listening sessions, but many can't tell the difference even on longer sessions.


----------



## Yukicore (Mar 13, 2020)

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> You have tried to turn off the charge option in the BTR5 as well, right? Did you try another usb adapter? We will report to the engineer to see whether they have other idea about this problem.
> 
> Best regards



@FiiO Please advise on BTR5 discovery issue. I've asked Aliexpress official store (where I purchased it), they answered with "we will test first and contact you again", 2 weeks later no answer, and support e-mail, doesn't answer as well.

When FiiO BTR5 is on, connected to my main device, ANY other device can discover and connect to my BTR5, control it and play audio to it.
And it's not in pairing mode, tried resetting, clearing, but nothing fixed it, it was on 1.0.6. firmware from factory. This can't be normal, can it? Is my device or it's current firmware faulty?

Is there a way to make the BTR5 undiscoverable unless Pairing mode is activated?


----------



## hifi80sman

Yukicore said:


> @FiiO Please advise on BTR5 discovery issue. I've asked Aliexpress official store (where I purchased it), they answered with "we will test first and contact you again", 2 weeks later no answer, and support e-mail, doesn't answer as well.
> 
> When FiiO BTR5 is on, connected to my main device, ANY other device can discover and connect to my BTR5, control it and play audio to it.
> And it's not in pairing mode, tried resetting, clearing, but nothing fixed it, it was on 1.0.6. firmware from factory. This can't be normal, can it? Is my device or it's current firmware faulty?
> ...


Do you have another device you can pair it to?  A temp fix would be to allow it to simultaneously pair to a 2nd device.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

tomwebster said:


> No it doesn’t work with iPhone. Got mine a few days ago and really enjoying it so far.
> 
> Tried it with the Apple camera kit / USB adapter and it says that the device uses too much power and so doesn’t work.
> 
> Sounds good enough to me over Bluetooth however so no too disappointed.


I ran into this with my ES100. When I set it to “self powered mode” it ran off its own battery and the problem went away

I didn’t get the Fiiio... yet... but maybe there is a setting like this

hope that helps


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> At least you didn't lose your wife's wedding ring...


Never lost either one but felt great when I ended up losing the wife


----------



## hmscott (Mar 14, 2020)

Guys, I've received my first post-COVID19 China order - Feb 3rd order, March 4th shipment, March 13th delivery in Norcal USA - of the DD stamped red/black version of the BTR5 case.

This DD BTR5 case runs cool with a large open "front" - top to bottom open section - both to view the display on top of the gap and the rest of that open space to allow cool air flow over the BTR5.  This DD version material is very flexible, thin, and light.  The bottom cutout for the USB-C cable is a bit tight for my "Nintendo Controller" USB-C cable so I pushed the cable head through the opening and then pushed down the BTR5 to click it in.  The thin red material on the sides makes feeling for and using the buttons very easy - no problem finding the volume up / down, power and "next/start/stop" button.

As far as I can see the all black FiiO stamped version has a small cutout for the display only, but that version does have cut off corners to allow air flow - see both versions at the Hifigo site, aliexpress site is the official DD store:
https://hifigo.com/products/leather...th-adapter-cover-black?variant=31570124603441
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000496005023.html

For now I've got Charge=On back as I've recently switched to using the 3.5mm output - less power with less heat generation observed - to drive 3.5mm headphones and a Blon BL-03 with the stock 3.5mm cables.

BTW, does anyone know where to get 2.5mm TRRS balanced cables specifically for the square connector on the Blon BL-03 (and BL-05) earpieces?  So far I am only finding 3.5mm cable options. I'd really like to switch the Blon BL-03's over to balanced 2.5mm as I have the rest of my IEMs.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Mar 14, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Guys, I've received my first post-COVID19 China order - Feb 3rd order, March 4th shipment, March 13th delivery in Norcal USA - of the DD stamped red/black version of the BTR5 case.
> 
> This DD BTR5 case runs cool with a large open "front" - top to bottom open section - both to view the display on top of the gap and the rest of that open space to allow cool air flow over the BTR5.  This DD version material is very flexible, thin, and light.  The bottom cutout for the USB-C cable is a bit tight for my "Nintendo Controller" USB-C cable so I pushed the cable head through the opening and then pushed down the BTR5 to click it in.  The thin red material on the sides makes feeling for and using the buttons very easy - no problem finding the volume up / down, power and "next/start/stop" button.
> 
> ...


Maybe this one could fit in.

https://fiio-shop.de/kabel/665/fiio-rc-78b
or this one
https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/9514.html


----------



## hmscott (Mar 14, 2020)

Chris Kaoss said:


> Maybe this one could fit in.
> 
> https://fiio-shop.de/kabel/665/fiio-rc-78b
> or this one
> https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/9514.html


Thank you for the suggestions and links.  

Unfortunately the standard 2-pin and QDC connectors don't exactly fit / work on the Blon BL-03 (05), I'll try to summarize briefly the specific combination of requirements for the Blon earpiece connector, and what has been tried as work-arounds:


Spoiler



The Blon earpiece connector is square, so it won't fit into a round QDC connector.  Sanding round the connector corners on the Blon earpiece has worked to use a QDC cable, but you could take off too much material - or it could wear over time - and the cable might not be connected solidly.  The pins may or may not be the right length to fit well into the Blon socket - or connected in the correct phase, I haven't tried this work around.  Here's a Youtube video on how to modify the Blon earpiece connector: *Link*

A 2-pin cable will "fit", but the pins are without a connector - so the whole affair sticks out leaving the Blon connector uncovered. Worse yet the straight-out design of a 2-pin connector sticks the cable straight up instead of the Blon curved designed connector which drapes the cable over the ears.

A TFZ cable connector which is also squarish inside like the Blon connector looks like it would work, but the TFZ when connected doesn't go all the way in and sticks out as well.

This video shows both 2-pin and TFZ type "Blon replacement cable" solutions and how they don't quite fit "exactly" right: *Link*

There are 3 versions of Blon replacement cable I've found, all with 3.5mm, no option for a 2.5mm balanced version:
https://www.amazon.com/Earphone-Replacement-****-Earphones-Blon-03/dp/B081H1RHZ5
https://www.amazon.com/****-Earphones-Earbuds-Earphone-Replacement/dp/B081GZV9FM
https://hifigo.com/products/blon-bl-03-4-core-single-crystal-copper-upgraded-cable

Here's a review for one of the 3.5mm **** Blon replacement cables: *Link*

It would be nice if this **** 16-core cable - or maybe an 8-core cable - were offered with Blon earpiece connectors:
https://hifigo.com/products/****-16...-5-4-4mm-upgrade-cable?variant=31205718786097

A 16 core cable might be a bit heavy for the Blon-03 to hold in, but moving from a Medium to a Large foam tip has anchored in the Blon BL-03 for me nicely.


So far I actually like the stock black woven cable the Blon BL-03 comes with, but it's 3.5mm unbalanced, and I'd prefer a 2.5mm balanced cable for the BTR5.


----------



## Yukicore

hifi80sman said:


> Do you have another device you can pair it to?  A temp fix would be to allow it to simultaneously pair to a 2nd device.


Yes, I have, when 2 devices are actively paired, 3rd cannot be connected, but once one of them is disconnected any device is free to connect, sometimes I have to press any button on BTR5 before it allows getting connected to, but that's all the connectivity control it has.

Do You own a BTR5 as well? Is it acting the same way?


----------



## hifi80sman

Yukicore said:


> Yes, I have, when 2 devices are actively paired, 3rd cannot be connected, but once one of them is disconnected any device is free to connect, sometimes I have to press any button on BTR5 before it allows getting connected to, but that's all the connectivity control it has.
> 
> Do You own a BTR5 as well? Is it acting the same way?


I no longer have it, so unfortunately I cannot test.  I never noticed an issue, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.


----------



## FinBenton

Anybody else have "pop" issue with their btr-5? Mine was perfect for around a month until it started to have all kinda sudden crazy loud pop noises randomly, Im using aptx HD and LL modes with balanced output, pops are much louder on HD mode but LL does similar thing aswell, this problem has gotten worse over time and now I cant even use the adapter anymore, it does it all the time.

My older BTR-3s are still working perfectly, nothing such in them.


----------



## zaim

Managed to order one from Amazon UK, interested to see how this pairs with my XBA-Z5


----------



## hifi80sman

FinBenton said:


> Anybody else have "pop" issue with their btr-5? Mine was perfect for around a month until it started to have all kinda sudden crazy loud pop noises randomly, Im using aptx HD and LL modes with balanced output, pops are much louder on HD mode but LL does similar thing aswell, this problem has gotten worse over time and now I cant even use the adapter anymore, it does it all the time.
> 
> My older BTR-3s are still working perfectly, nothing such in them.


It only happens over balanced output AND only with aptX HD and LL?  

Balanced with SBC, AAC, or LDAC works OK?  

Is the 3.5mm still good?


----------



## FinBenton (Mar 15, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> It only happens over balanced output AND only with aptX HD and LL?
> 
> Balanced with SBC, AAC, or LDAC works OK?
> 
> Is the 3.5mm still good?


I just tested with both outputs, happens on both but havent tested other codecs as I only use those. I wonder if its somekinda overheat issue even though Im always running from battery only, it can work fine for like an hour in the morning before it starts acting out. Definitely broken unit. I dont have this issue with btr3 though, I can run that 8h straight.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 15, 2020)

FinBenton said:


> Anybody else have "pop" issue with their btr-5? Mine was perfect for around a month until it started to have all kinda sudden crazy loud pop noises randomly, Im using aptx HD and LL modes with balanced output, pops are much louder on HD mode but LL does similar thing aswell, this problem has gotten worse over time and now I cant even use the adapter anymore, it does it all the time.
> 
> My older BTR-3s are still working perfectly, nothing such in them.


Do you use any other BT devices - like keyboard / mouse / speakers?  Usually interference can sound like that - brief interruptions or "catchup's" in data come across as a sharp interruption.  See if turning off other BT devices near you helps.

Maybe try switching to SBC or LDAC?  On LDAC allow Adaptive Bit Rate... have you looked at the Android Developer Bluetooth options? Changed them from default?  You might try resetting to defaults and see if that helps.  Or, are you on PC only - or iOS/MacOS?

If you aren't charging the battery while on 2.5mm balanced the temps shouldn't be too bad.  On 2.5mm balanced it's going to run warmer, but as long as you don't cover the unit - allow good air-flow over it - it should be fine.

Perhaps try starting out on 3.5mm from "cold" and see if that's it.  Starting out on 2.5mm you might be heating it up enough for it to be too late to switch to 3.5mm - if heat is involved at all.

Distance interference can also cause the same issue.  If I get my body or other obstacle in the way - between the BTR5 and the BT transmitter I can also get sharp interference.  When you say "pop" I usually think of a sharp discharge like a bad capacitor, but there is a definite difference between that and simple BT signal corruption due to interference or interruption of signal.

Try switching to USB DAC if you can to eliminate BT as the source of the "pop", and see if the BTR5 runs better - try with Charge=Off and start with 3.5mm before moving to 2.5mm.  If the noise stops it's not the DAC / AMP, it's the radio / BT somehow loosing signal integrity.

Also, see if there are any other close by 2.4ghz devices that might be overloading the BTR5.  If you are sitting close to a 2.4ghz router or 2.4ghz extension phone, or other 2.4ghz device - again keyboards and mice.  Try to distance them from your use area for the BTR5 - or get the source closer to the BTR5 without anything blocking the signal path.

Even "holding" the BTR5 can block the BT signal if you wrap your fingers around it, or get it stuck in a pocket with other things, etc etc - anything active or passive that can get in the way of the source BT signal and your BTR BT receiver can cause signal interruptions.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 8, 2020)

Sorry, should have edited this before now.  I found out that upon trying to recreate using EQ on USB DAC mode with the BTR5 it turns out that it must have been 1 of 2 things, both of which involve a BT connection vs the USB DAC connection.

1) When switching from BT to USB DAC mode the BTR5 didn't actually do that completely - I must have still been on BT.

2) When firmly connected via USB DAC I must have pushed up the BTR5 in it's leather case and the cable slightly dislodged and the BTR5 switched to BT.

The odd thing is I used the BTR5 EQ back and forth for a long time and checked the display every time to see if I was still seeing the 384k instead of APTX, so I don't know how the BTR5 could have been in BT mode - it's very strange.

I'm adding this as I was looking for this post to add what I just experienced with the BTR3k I just got today.  It seems to be connected to both BT and USB DAC at the same time, as I even thought the USB cable was firmly in place it didn't sound like it switched out of BT and in to USB DAC mode - so I had to disable BT on the PC and then the audio changed right as I disabled BT.

I'm gonna need to see what's really going on at that transition point between switching from BT to USB DAC mode when connecting / disconnecting the USB cable from the BTR5 and BTR3K.

I'll post a reply when I get those results, eventually...

@FiiO -  I've noticed that the BTR5 EQ actually "works" over USB DAC. 

After switching over from IEM's on 2.5mm to over the ear headphones 3.5mm - driving them at H Gain and higher volume (100% on PC) set to mid 20's on the BTR5, I finally can hear real effects from the EQ settings.

On my IEM's the EQ doesn't kick in at all, maybe the Gain / Volume are not high enough?

The BTR5 doesn't act like a "loudness" EQ that affects low volume playback, so far as I've experienced the BTR5 EQ it needs serious drive to have a discernable effect.

I've found movie soundtracks using EQ "Classic" are more dynamic, with EQ Hip Hop a bit less so, and EQ Jazz (clear voicing) is good for clarity.  I haven't tried any custom / User settings yet.

I also played a bit with the Filters. I wouldn't swear it's so, but I think I enjoy Fast over Slow, and both those over the default APOD 1.


----------



## chickentender

FinBenton said:


> Anybody else have "pop" issue with their btr-5?



I did and it was part of the reason I parted ways with mine. My UP4 never did so. No clue why. It was only one reason for the switch so I didn't troubleshoot it very much at all, but there was absolutely no other BT activity in my home in either unit's use cases at the time. UP4 has other annoyances but that isn't one of them for me personally.




hmscott said:


> @FiiO -  I've noticed that the BTR5 EQ actually "works" over USB DAC.



Was there a firmware update recently that provided this change. EQing was obvious at any volume with any source when using BT connection mode during my time with the BTR5, but EQ had absolutely *no* effect whatsoever when using it via USB-DAC mode for me.


----------



## hifi80sman

chickentender said:


> I did and it was part of the reason I parted ways with mine. My UP4 never did so. No clue why. It was only one reason for the switch so I didn't troubleshoot it very much at all, but there was absolutely no other BT activity in my home in either unit's use cases at the time. UP4 has other annoyances but that isn't one of them for me personally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely sounds heat related.  I would maybe try and place it on top of some kind of cooling gel pad (with a fabric cover to avoid condensation) and see if it makes a difference.  If so, then it's likely heat related and you'll have to decide what to do from there.


----------



## chickentender

hifi80sman said:


> Definitely sounds heat related.  I would maybe try and place it on top of some kind of cooling gel pad (with a fabric cover to avoid condensation) and see if it makes a difference.  If so, then it's likely heat related and you'll have to decide what to do from there.



I already parted with it, as I mentioned. It wasn't for me. Prefer the simplicity of the UP4 (though I may not even hang onto that one).


----------



## hmscott (Mar 22, 2020)

chickentender said:


> Was there a firmware update recently that provided this change. EQing was obvious at any volume with any source when using BT connection mode during my time with the BTR5, but EQ had absolutely *no* effect whatsoever when using it via USB-DAC mode for me.


I was on USC C and the display showed 384khz connected on the BTR5 and that's why I made the post, Previously I hadn't noticed any EQ effect by enabling any preset, but now after switching from IEM's 2.5mm L Gain and low volume required to drive them - where I didn't hear any EQ on either BT or DAC - now on 3.5mm H Gain on PC DAC in Movies I am hearing a difference in EQ settings, not in some other content though... so I need to spend some time finding out what material is favoring the EQ working.

I'll post an update after some more listening later this week...

Update: Sorry I thought I'd have time by now to try to recreate what I heard, but I haven't heard it again - the only thing I can think of is the tight fit of the USB C cable might have popped out and switched to BT, but that doesn't make sense either as I know I double checked to make sure that wasn't what happened at the time - I know I saw 384K in the display not APTX.  I just tried it again going back and forth, but it might have been the source material I was listening to at the time.  I think it was Midway DVD... but I can't recreate that now with the material I have here today.  I'll keep looking for it and see if I can get Midway back to test it.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 16, 2020)

hifi80sman said:


> Definitely sounds heat related.  I would maybe try and place it on top of some kind of cooling gel pad (with a fabric cover to avoid condensation) and see if it makes a difference.  If so, then it's likely heat related and you'll have to decide what to do from there.


So far under normal operation there hasn't been a problem with heat.  The only time I had a heat problem was when I buried the BTR5 between 2 pillows, with Charge=On, 2.5mm running for over an hour and a half - then I heard distortion which disappeared when I cooled down the BTR5.  But, there were no "pops" related to heat.


chickentender said:


> I already parted with it, as I mentioned. It wasn't for me. Prefer the simplicity of the UP4 (though I may not even hang onto that one).


What else are you looking at as a replacement for the BTR5/UP4?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hmscott said:


> I was on USC C and the display showed 384khz connected on the BTR5 and that's why I made the post, Previously I hadn't noticed any EQ effect by enabling any preset, but now after switching from IEM's 2.5mm L Gain and low volume required to drive them - where I didn't hear any EQ on either BT or DAC - now on 3.5mm H Gain on PC DAC in Movies I am hearing a difference in EQ settings, not in some other content though... so I need to spend some time finding out what material is favoring the EQ working.
> 
> I'll post an update after some more listening later this week...


I can tell you when I charge my HiBy R6 Pro in the case by USB-C from a fast charge power bank it gets REALLY hot...


----------



## chickentender

hmscott said:


> What else are you looking at as a replacement for the BTR5/UP4?



I'm largely not. In all honesty I'll probably just hang onto the UP4, but it's sort of novelty and pure convenience. The thing is I rarely use BT. If I'm listening on the go I'm just plugged into my LG phone and I'm _more_ than happy with the wired quad-DAC in that case. I get the appeal of BT units generally but also don't need another thing to charge. 
That said.... the LDAC performance on the UP4 is *very* good. (I'm also not in this thread to knock the BTR5 - I just found it too big and fiddly and just not quite refined/simplistic for a mobile device, though I fully understand why some love it. I just didn't get on with it though I wanted to.)


----------



## hmscott (Mar 18, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> I can tell you when I charge my HiBy R6 Pro in the case by USB-C from a fast charge power bank it gets REALLY hot...


I've only used my 25w fast charger when I first got the BTR5 to top it off, but otherwise my PC or Note 10+ have been charging it while I listen on 3.5mm and on 2.5mm I've been trying to run on battery only after the BTR5 is topped off in charge. That lets me reduce the heat generation in the BTR5, but I'm probably being too aggressive - after running it overheated once I want to not do that again.

Even for my Note 10+ I don't use fast charging that often, as I don't wear down the battery enough to need a fast charge (below 60%), so I have it default to normal charging to keep the battery heat down in the Note 10+ as well.

Maybe you can find another charger that doesn't support fast charging to feed your Hiby R6 Pro to reduce the thermals when charging it too?


----------



## hmscott

chickentender said:


> I'm largely not. In all honesty I'll probably just hang onto the UP4, but it's sort of novelty and pure convenience. The thing is I rarely use BT. If I'm listening on the go I'm just plugged into my LG phone and I'm _more_ than happy with the wired quad-DAC in that case. I get the appeal of BT units generally but also don't need another thing to charge.
> That said.... the LDAC performance on the UP4 is *very* good. (I'm also not in this thread to knock the BTR5 - I just found it too big and fiddly and just not quite refined/simplistic for a mobile device, though I fully understand why some love it. I just didn't get on with it though I wanted to.)


If the BTR5 were any smaller my large hands might have trouble operating it.  

The BTR5 is great for me so far and gives me the ability to get up and walk around with only a short transfer interruption when changing from DAC to BT and back again.  BT headphones going outside have been cumbersome, and I'd rather take my IEM's with me much of the time, the BTR5 lets me use either easily.

I hope my BTR5 keeps running well for a long long time...but I guess there's always the UP4 if it doesn't...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hmscott said:


> I've only used my 25w fast charger when I first got the BTR5 to top it off, but otherwise my PC or Note 10+ have been charging it while I listen on 3.5mm and on 2.5mm I've been trying to run on battery only after the BTR5 is topped off in charge.  That lets me reduce the heat generation in the BTR5, but I'm probably being too aggressive - after running it overheated once I want to not do that again.
> 
> Even for my Note 10+ I don't use fast charging that often, as I don't wear down the battery enough to need a fast charge (below 60%), so I have it default to normal charging to keep the battery heat down in the Note 10+ as well.
> 
> Maybe you can find another charger that doesn't support fast charging to feed your Hiby R6 Pro to reduce the thermals when charging it too?


Ya it’s pretty interesting really.  If I go USB-C from my Powerbank directly to the USB-C on the R6, it charges more slowly than the QC 3.0 port to USB-C. If I take it out of the case it’s mmm doesn’t get too hot 

didn’t know that about the battery life.It’s going to be a pain in the a$$ to replace the battery on this thing


----------



## hmscott (Mar 17, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> Ya it’s pretty interesting really.  If I go USB-C from my Powerbank directly to the USB-C on the R6, it charges more slowly than the QC 3.0 port to USB-C. If I take it out of the case it’s mmm doesn’t get too hot didn’t know that about the battery life.It’s going to be a pain in the a$$ to replace the battery on this thing


Yes, long term wear on lithium-ion batteries is directly affected by charging and discharging temperatures, and keeping cool can become critical to maintain expected capacity as well.  Keep'em cool charging and discharging.

BTW, I ran into this notice from Hiby about the R6 Pro and permissions settings on Google services causing high battery usage and I thought I might share that with you.  I realize it's "old", but coincidentally the new Samsung S20 series also has a similar issue solved by allowing more permissions for google services - I'm researching such tidbits for when my S20 Ultra arrives in a few weeks (hopefully).  I know I am going to check the settings when I get mine, and after updates as well.  There are so many little details to watch out for when tuning for the best battery life on Android.

*HiBy Music, *June 10, 2019 - *To all users experiencing unusual battery drain on the R6 / R6pro on standby*
https://www.facebook.com/hibycom/po...e-r6-r6pro-on-standbyour-in/1487231671419050/
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dhFddCY7CFEzyp98GlYQAcavHnPEXr3r/view

*How to Fix Google Play Services Battery Drain* on Android
By Robert Zak – Posted on Mar 15, 2020 in Android
https://www.maketecheasier.com/fix-google-play-services-battery-drain-android/
https://www.androidpit.com/google-play-services-battery-drain-how-to-fix-it

And, it's not just permissions for google services, even unsupported characters in contact names causing Google Sync to fail and constantly retry will drain the battery.  Those articles cover a bunch of possible sources and causes for the high battery drain on Android.


----------



## ActuallySparky

chickentender said:


> That said.... the LDAC performance on the UP4 is *very* good. (I'm also not in this thread to knock the BTR5 - I just found it too big and fiddly and just not quite refined/simplistic for a mobile device, though I fully understand why some love it. I just didn't get on with it though I wanted to.)


Out of curiosity, what kind of headphone/IEM are you pairing with the UP4? I found the BTR5/ES100 to have way better sound than the UP4, but I'm wondering if I just picked a bad pairing?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hmscott said:


> Yes, long term wear on lithium-ion batteries is directly affected by charging and discharging temperatures, and keeping cool can become critical to maintain expected capacity as well.  Keep'em cool charging and discharging.
> 
> BTW, I ran into this notice from Hiby about the R6 Pro and permissions settings on Google services causing high battery usage and I thought I might share that with you.  I realize it's "old", but coincidentally the new Samsung S20 series also has a similar issue solved by allowing more permissions for google services - I'm researching such tidbits for when my S20 Ultra arrives in a few weeks (hopefully).  I know I am going to check the settings when I get mine, and after updates as well.  There are so many little details to watch out for when tuning for the best battery life on Android.
> 
> ...


wow thanks!  I just posted a question on the R6 thread to ask them if this is still an issue and if I need to do anything.  I did notice when I first got it that the battery would drop quickly


----------



## chickentender

ActuallySparky said:


> Out of curiosity, what kind of headphone/IEM are you pairing with the UP4? I found the BTR5/ES100 to have way better sound than the UP4, but I'm wondering if I just picked a bad pairing?



All the phones in my sig, but most often with the Blons and Sonys recently. BTR5 sounded fine - really very similar to my ear (was just operation that bugged me). I've never had an ES100.


----------



## chickentender

hmscott said:


> If the BTR5 were any smaller my large hands might have trouble operating it.



That was part of my 'fiddly' nitpicking. I can operate the UP4 without looking at it. The wheel is especially well done. Again, the FiiO is very good, I just got on with the other.


----------



## FinBenton

The "pop" issue on my btr-5 was not heat releated nor did it go away when I drove somewhere where there wasnt any other BT devices within 500m, also happens with all codecs and both output ports, also tried with 2 different transmitters. Unfortonately its from china ebay so prob no warranty.


----------



## hmscott

FinBenton said:


> The "pop" issue on my btr-5 was not heat releated nor did it go away when I drove somewhere where there wasnt any other BT devices within 500m, also happens with all codecs and both output ports, also tried with 2 different transmitters. Unfortonately its from china ebay so prob no warranty.


FiiO should still support you through warranty repair, it's certainly worth a shot.  If you don't think the company who sold it to you on ebay will support you, ask ebay for a resolution refund for non-working product.  Here in the US ebay is pretty good about making good on the sale and if the product is bad - give them a call.

That's too bad there isn't a user level solution, and you aren't the first I've heard with the problem, so FiiO needs to get such failed units back for debugging... @FiiO


----------



## lucasd

Do you know if BTR5 will fast charge? Or is it limited to 500mA? 
I hope for latter, as normally USB-C charger should give 500mA, unless device support fast charging...


----------



## hmscott

lucasd said:


> Do you know if BTR5 will fast charge? Or is it limited to 500mA?
> I hope for latter, as normally USB-C charger should give 500mA, unless device support fast charging...


I don't see any mention of fast charge on the BTR5 product page:
https://www.fiio.com/btr5

And the specifications (parameters) page lists this:

Charging Time≤1.5 h (DC 5V 500mA)Power InputRecommend DC 5V 500mA
https://www.fiio.com/btr5_parameters

And, I didn't notice any abnormal heat generation when I used my 25w PD charger on the BTR5.


----------



## rebbi

Hey, Folks,
Can someone please provide a walkthrough showing how to use the BTR5 as a *wired DAC* with an iPhone and the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter? I did get "44.1kHz" (rather than "AAC") to appear once in the BTR5 display but couldn't get any sound out of the balanced port using the Onkyo player app. Thanks!!!


----------



## ActuallySparky (Mar 19, 2020)

rebbi said:


> Hey, Folks,
> Can someone please provide a walkthrough showing how to use the BTR5 as a *wired DAC* with an iPhone and the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter? I did get "44.1kHz" (rather than "AAC") to appear once in the BTR5 display but couldn't get any sound out of the balanced port using the Onkyo player app. Thanks!!!


There should be an active USB connection if the display says 44.1kHz.

Did you verify the volume was turned up on both the iPhone and the BTR5?  Can you get sound out of the 3.5mm single ended port via USB? Does the 2.5mm balanced port work via bluetooth?


----------



## rebbi

Yes, the balanced output works fine via Bluetooth, so that's not the issue. And I will try seeing if I can get sound out of the single ended port over USB. It was weird, 44.1 kHz appeared briefly in the display, but then I couldn't get it back. I will give it another shot. I should add that USB works fine out of my MacBook Pro. Thanks again for responding.


----------



## ClieOS

rebbi said:


> Yes, the balanced output works fine via Bluetooth, so that's not the issue. And I will try seeing if I can get sound out of the single ended port over USB. It was weird, 44.1 kHz appeared briefly in the display, but then I couldn't get it back. I will give it another shot. I should add that USB works fine out of my MacBook Pro. Thanks again for responding.



Have you disable charging on the BTR5?


----------



## RAFA

Has somebody here managed to connect the btr5 with a ps4?

If yes, what magic have you done. I just cannot do it


----------



## FiiO

FinBenton said:


> The "pop" issue on my btr-5 was not heat releated nor did it go away when I drove somewhere where there wasnt any other BT devices within 500m, also happens with all codecs and both output ports, also tried with 2 different transmitters. Unfortonately its from china ebay so prob no warranty.


Hello,

Please send email to support@fiio.com with the receipt attached first if your seller fails to help.

Best regards


----------



## Timoteew (Mar 21, 2020)

Just got my FiiO BTR5 this morning. Will be writing up a review along with comparisons to the Q5S soon. First impressions are _very _positive though!


----------



## Romeo Dolorosa (Mar 23, 2020)

Hello,

that is my first post so please excuse if this is the wrong thread to ask for advice, though I familiarised myself with the rules I am unsure if this post is against the rules.

Thanks to all the positive reports about the BTR 5 I decided this the device that will hopefully take me to the next audiophile level and finally free me of those cable I hate so much (and that break all the time because I use them also in the gym...)
First, may I ask what cable length you guys would recommend for the BTR 5 when worn on my collar or somewhere in my chest area? I would assume 50-60cm should be enough but I would love some feedback from those that have already used such setups for a while in their home, gym, etc,

I own a pair of Shure 215 (planning on adding another MMCX IEM like the Tinhifi T4 later) and Sennheiser HD600 but I have a hard time finding 2.5mm balanced cables for them that are short and _that don't cost an arm and a leg._
For the HD600 cable, I found a seller on Aliexpress that offers 100cm but he has kinda bad reviews. For the S215, I believe remembering seeing a link in this very thread but I can't find it again.

That aside, I would be of course really happy if someone could guide me to a EU based vendor that has the BTR5 in stock, I wasn't able to locate one so far.

TIA!


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Mar 23, 2020)

Romeo Dolorosa said:


> Hello,
> 
> that is my first post so please excuse if this is the wrong thread to ask for advice, though I familiarised myself with the rules I am unsure if this post is against the rules.
> 
> ...


Hello and welcome to head-fi. 

For the length, 60 cm is still fine.

https://fiio-shop.de/kabel/852/fiio-lc-2.5bs for your Shure with a length of 45 cm.

For the HD600, you can order from FAW, which takes 129€ 



Spoiler: FAW Hybrid



https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=86


or


Spoiler: Custom Cans



https://customcans.co.uk/s/s/index.php/cables/hd600-balanced-cable.html



Maybe someone with better knowledge about cheap balanced cables will chime in.

You can have the perfect length by sending an e-mail to Matt from FAW or to CC.
But be aware that the price won't be reduced due the shorter length, it'll stay at the lowest available option. 


For the BTR5 the best way is to subsribe to the Fiio e-mail notification.
When i received the restock note, it tooks just 1 day and all BTR5s are gone. ^^

I've bought the Btr5 2 times from their german shop. 


All the best from "Oberbayern" and have a great day/night. ^^

Edit:
Found another one interesting cable maker.


Spoiler: Oidio UK



https://oidiosound.co.uk/mongrel-sennheiser-hd6xx.html


----------



## Timoteew

Hi all, for anyone interested I've written up a review of the FiiO BTR5 with a comparison to the Q5S. You can read it on my website here: https://www.modioaudio.co.uk/blog/fiio-btr5-its-spunky - please let me know what you think!


----------



## Romeo Dolorosa

Chris Kaoss said:


> Hello and welcome to head-fi.
> 
> For the length, 60 cm is still fine.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the welcome, Chris - living in Bavaria's capital, we're almost neighbours!

Thanks for the tip to get a restock notification, I have been browsing the Fiio Germany shop's site for weeks but it didn't occur to me to subscribe to the BTR 5 like you recommend.
I will look at the cables you linked to but I think I would like to have a more budget friendly option, I don't think I need silver plated MMCX cables for my S215 (gym) IEMs, that will likely break at some point anyway like all the others before did. However, once I got another pair of IEMs for home use like the TinHifi T4 or someting similar, I am willing to spend a bit more on a better cable.
Hopefully a member with knowledge about different asian cable vendors will chime in regarding cables for the HD600, 100+€ for a cable are simply out of my price range as I still have to get a new phone that supports high-res audio and LDAC and some microSD storage to store my lossless music library on.

Cheers!


----------



## hmscott (Mar 24, 2020)

Timoteew said:


> Hi all, for anyone interested I've written up a review of the FiiO BTR5 with a comparison to the Q5S. You can read it on my website here: https://www.modioaudio.co.uk/blog/fiio-btr5-its-spunky - please let me know what you think!


Nice review @Timoteew, glad you like the BTR5 like I do, and thanks for the heads up on the BTR3K! *Google* turned up this Blog post from yesterday:

FiiO BTR3K Announced: Latest Bluetooth DAC/AMP!!
https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/fiio-btr3k-announced-latest-bluetooth-dac-amp

Hifigo has the BTR3K available for pre-order @ $69.99
https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-btr3k-balanced-high-fidelity-bluetooth-headphone-amp

That dual DAC 3.5mm does sound promising for my headphones "locked" into a 3.5mm by design:  I've converted over several IEM's to 2.5mm just for the BTR5, but my over the ear headphones and Blon BL-03's are going without the power from the 2.5mm output of the BTR5.

It looks like @FiiO already opened up a new thread on the BTR3K 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...h-fidelity-bluetooth-amp.928317/post-15524404


----------



## Timoteew

hmscott said:


> Nice review @Timoteew, glad you like the BTR5 like I do, and thanks for the heads up on the BTR3K! *Google* turned up this Blog post from yesterday:
> 
> FiiO BTR3K Announced: Latest Bluetooth DAC/AMP!!
> https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/fiio-btr3k-announced-latest-bluetooth-dac-amp
> ...


Cheers for the reply @hmscott, it's a very impressive little device. No worries, looks like it could be a really nice upgrade to the BTR3 - I just hope it isn't too close to the BTR5 in performance! Though I believe it will be capped at 48k-16bit audio so that's one way the BTR5 will remain on top. 

I also have a pair of those Blons which are not benefitting from the balanced design.


----------



## shuto77

Just picked this up and looking for some advice. 

The Bluetooth connection is working fine via my laptop, but it stutters on my phone with Spotify and Amazon Music, even when the two devices are close together. Is there a way to remedy this without messing with the developer settings? I have an LG G7 Thinq running Android 8.0.0. Phone is ldac compatible. 

Thanks!


----------



## hifi80sman

shuto77 said:


> Just picked this up and looking for some advice.
> 
> The Bluetooth connection is working fine via my laptop, but it stutters on my phone with Spotify and Amazon Music, even when the two devices are close together. Is there a way to remedy this without messing with the developer settings? I have an LG G7 Thinq running Android 8.0.0. Phone is ldac compatible.
> 
> Thanks!


Are you running LDAC at 990 kbps?  You may need to go into developer settings and play with the LDAC bit rate/connection emphasis.


----------



## zolom (Mar 27, 2020)

LDAC at 990, suffers from stuttering on my Galaxy S10.
Disabaling Location,  reduces that.


----------



## krumplib430

Dear all. I wanted to clear the current pairing from BTR5. I followed the user guide which says hold down button B and C simultaneously for 5 sec. But instead of clearing the the current pairing, it entered DFU mode :O
So my questions
1. How can I exit DFU mode
2. What is the correct way of clearing the current pairing


----------



## Luke Skywalker

zolom said:


> LDAC at 990, suffers from stuttering on my Galaxy S10.
> Disabaling Location,  reduces that.


Not feeling bad for you guys... Stuck with AAC on my iPhone


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> Not feeling bad for you guys... Stuck with AAC on my iPhone


If you're going to go AAC, at least it's on an iPhone (AAC on Android is not as good).


----------



## FiiO

krumplib430 said:


> Dear all. I wanted to clear the current pairing from BTR5. I followed the user guide which says hold down button B and C simultaneously for 5 sec. But instead of clearing the the current pairing, it entered DFU mode :O
> So my questions
> 1. How can I exit DFU mode
> 2. What is the correct way of clearing the current pairing


Hello,

Sorry. Please try to hold the power button for 10s to force a restart first. 

Clear the pairing record: 
Hold the volume+&- at the same time for about 5s while BTR5 is turned on.

Best regards


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> If you're going to go AAC, at least it's on an iPhone (AAC on Android is not as good).


Wow cool I didn’t know that... 

Have you guys heard about 802.11ay?  That would let you stream even DSD uncompressed!!

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/02/24/2020-iphones-may-support-60ghz-wifi/


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> Wow cool I didn’t know that...
> 
> Have you guys heard about 802.11ay?  That would let you stream even DSD uncompressed!!
> 
> https://www.macrumors.com/2020/02/24/2020-iphones-may-support-60ghz-wifi/


Here's some good links:
https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/

https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Apple_AAC


----------



## FiiO




----------



## CL14715

I just received by BTR5 and noticed when paired with my EE Valks that it clips at relatively low volume on low gain.... This is while streaming apple music over BT. I noticed my Es100 does not do this so I am trying to diagnose the issue. Any ideas?


----------



## ClieOS

CL14715 said:


> I just received by BTR5 and noticed when paired with my EE Valks that it clips at relatively low volume on low gain.... This is while streaming apple music over BT. I noticed my Es100 does not do this so I am trying to diagnose the issue. Any ideas?



What's an 'EE Valks'?


----------



## CL14715

ClieOS said:


> What's an 'EE Valks'?


Empire Ears Valkyrie


----------



## ClieOS

CL14715 said:


> Empire Ears Valkyrie



Clipping is usually the term used to describe a particular analog output gain exceeding the hardware max voltage output, causing the signal to 'clip off' at the very top and bottom of the signal, thus know as 'clipping'.. Since we are talking about an IEM here with BTR5 on low volume / low gain, this is probably not clipping. Clipping happens on very high volume, but FiiO usually designs their gear so they won't clip  (*gain < max voltage)

Anyway, can you describe in more detail about what happens?


----------



## CL14715

ClieOS said:


> Clipping is usually the term used to describe a particular analog output gain exceeding the hardware max voltage output, causing the signal to 'clip off' at the very top and bottom of the signal, thus know as 'clipping'.. Since we are talking about an IEM here with BTR5 on low volume / low gain, this is probably not clipping. Clipping happens on very high volume, but FiiO usually designs their gear so they won't clip  (*gain < max voltage)
> 
> Anyway, can you describe in more detail about what happens?


Thanks for that. On low gain at about 35 volume the bass sounds like a blown speaker. It sputters and the sound quality goes to garbage. No other DAC/AMP or DAP does this.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

CL14715 said:


> I just received by BTR5 and noticed when paired with my EE Valks that it clips at relatively low volume on low gain.... This is while streaming apple music over BT. I noticed my Es100 does not do this so I am trying to diagnose the issue. Any ideas?


Maybe the Btr5 doesn't handle this extremly low impedance ciems ( 3 ohm ) very well. 
Too much current needed?
Sadly i'm not able to reproduce your behavoir bc i don't have such low imp earphones.

Is this happen with usb connection to the Btr5 too?
Is it on SE or balanced?


----------



## CL14715

Chris Kaoss said:


> Maybe the Btr5 doesn't handle this extremly low impedance ciems ( 3 ohm ) very well.
> Too much current needed?
> Sadly i'm not able to reproduce your behavoir bc i don't have such low imp earphones.
> 
> ...


It maybe due to the low impedance. I’ve just never experienced anything like it before. I’ve only been able to test on SE 3.5mm port of BTR5. I don’t have a balanced CIEM termination for the Valkyries.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 1, 2020)

CL14715 said:


> Thanks for that. On low gain at about 35 volume the bass sounds like a blown speaker. It sputters and the sound quality goes to garbage. No other DAC/AMP or DAP does this.





CL14715 said:


> It maybe due to the low impedance. I’ve just never experienced anything like it before. I’ve only been able to test on SE 3.5mm port of BTR5. I don’t have a balanced CIEM termination for the Valkyries.


You might have a bad BTR5.  I'm running in that volume range on 3.5mm for over the ear headphones, Blon BL-03, NICEHCK DB3, and none of them have any audio anomalies at high volume.  On 2.5mm the volume range is much lower as the output is much higher, but I run the KZ ZSX, ZSN at high volume without distortion.  I'd try other headphones and IEM's and see if the same problem occurs.

If you aren't happy I'd return the BTR5 for another one before your return period expires, or RMA if it's past the return date.


----------



## CL14715

hmscott said:


> You might have a bad BTR5.  I'm running in that volume range on 3.5mm for over the ear headphones, Blon BL-03, NICEHCK DB3, and none of them have any audio anomalies at high volume.  On 2.5mm the volume range is much lower as the output is much higher, but I run the KZ ZSX, ZSN at high volume without distortion.  I'd try other headphones and IEM's and see if the same problem occurs.
> 
> If you aren't happy I'd return the BTR5 for another one before your return period expires, or RMA if it's past the return date.


Even if it only happens on low gain? Is it possible the low gain is run through different circuitry that is faulty?


----------



## ClieOS

CL14715 said:


> Even if it only happens on low gain? Is it possible the low gain is run through different circuitry that is faulty?



Pretty sure the gain setting doesn't work that way. It is probably just software controlled within the DAC chip - which means if it affects low gain, it should show on high gain as well.


----------



## sling5s

Just got mine. Love clear everything sounds.
However, when my BTR5 is connected to my Mac bluetooth with Amarra Player, the music/songs speed is slightly faster. 
Through USB it's fine and iPhone bluetooth is fine too. Only with Mac with Amarra. Any ideas?


----------



## thebearded1

I've been searching online for the same question.  Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4?  I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5.  I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work.  The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out.  Thoughts?


----------



## thebearded1

RAFA said:


> Has somebody here managed to connect the btr5 with a ps4?
> 
> If yes, what magic have you done. I just cannot do it


I've been searching online for the same question.  Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4?  I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5.  I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work.  The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out.  Thoughts?


----------



## XERO1 (Apr 4, 2020)

CL14715 said:


> I just received by BTR5 and noticed when paired with my EE Valks that it clips at relatively low volume on low gain.... This is while streaming apple music over BT. I noticed my Es100 does not do this so I am trying to diagnose the issue. Any ideas?





Chris Kaoss said:


> Maybe the Btr5 doesn't handle this extremly low impedance ciems ( 3 ohm ) very well.



The EE Valkyrie has a 3 ohm impedance?!  That's _insanely_ low! 

I can just about guarantee that is why the BTR5 is having trouble driving them.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of portible DAC-amps will also have trouble driving that difficult of a load (regardless of their power rating) because that low of an impedance is getting close to being seen by the amp as a dead-short, and it's protection circuit will then kick in.


----------



## CL14715

XERO1 said:


> The EE Valkyrie has a 3 ohm impedance?!  That's _insanely_ low!
> 
> I can just about guarantee that is why the BTR5 is having trouble driving them.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of portible DAC-amps will also have trouble driving that difficult of a load (regardless of their power rating) because that low of an impedance is getting close to being seen by the amp as a dead-short, and it's protection circuit will then kick in.



Yea, I'm learning these things are insane lmao. Maybe i'll just buy the Legend X to avoid these pairing issues.


----------



## XERO1 (Apr 4, 2020)

CL14715 said:


> Yea, I'm learning these things are insane lmao. Maybe i'll just buy the Legend X to avoid these pairing issues.


The Legend X is 100% legit.  They have the deepest, cleanest bass response I've ever heard from an IEM, and the rest of their spectrum sounds pretty fantastic too.

Definitely on the pricey side, but they are an end-game-level IEM for sure.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

thebearded1 said:


> I've been searching online for the same question.  Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4?  I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5.  I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work.  The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out.  Thoughts?


I actually just got an Xbox one this weekend and I’d love to do something like what you’re talking about with the ES100. So how would that work?  Pair the ES100 with the Xbox and then plug my Lola’s into the ES100?  Would the ES100 act as a game mic?
Thanks!


----------



## thebearded1

Luke Skywalker said:


> I actually just got an Xbox one this weekend and I’d love to do something like what you’re talking about with the ES100. So how would that work?  Pair the ES100 with the Xbox and then plug my Lola’s into the ES100?  Would the ES100 act as a game mic?
> Thanks!


I don't own an Xbox, but here's what I did with my PS4: Plugged the ES100 into one of the front USB ports with the supplied USB cable, then plugged my iems into the ES100.  For some reason, I couldn't get the ES100 to work with any cable, other than the supplied cable.  I'm no techno-wiz, so I can't tell you why this is the case.  As for the mic on the ES100, I never tried getting it to function with the PS4.  Perhaps someone else can speak to this.


----------



## HaBo

Is it a good idea to buy BTR5 just to know decibels at listening ?


----------



## ClieOS

HaBo said:


> Is it a good idea to buy BTR5 just to know decibels at listening ?



It will not be a good idea since BTR5 will not tell you what decibel you are listening. In fact, no BT adapter will be able to tell you what decibel you are listening. Only a dedicated decibel meter on special setup will be able to tell you what decibel you are listening.


----------



## HaBo

ClieOS said:


> It will not be a good idea since BTR5 will not tell you what decibel you are listening. In fact, no BT adapter will be able to tell you what decibel you are listening. Only a dedicated decibel meter on special setup will be able to tell you what decibel you are listening.




It can at least calculate/estimate the decibel level of listening with the app. Am I wrong ?


----------



## Forsaked

HaBo said:


> It can at least calculate/estimate the decibel level of listening with the app. Am I wrong ?



Yeah it does, but between the calculation and the reality are 20-25 db difference, in my case.


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 6, 2020)

HaBo said:


> It can at least calculate/estimate the decibel level of listening with the app. Am I wrong ?



It only does if you are going to listen to pure 1kHz sine wave all the time.

As an industry wide practice, headphone sensitivity in spec is always measured with a pure 1kHz sine wave test tone, so if you rely on FiiO app to calculate the dB SPL using the listed spec, it only reflects / estimate dB under a 1kHz tone. On the other hand, music goes from 20Hz to 20kHz with the fact that it is not gong to be a flat frequency response (both on the music as well as on the headphone), so the actual dB SPL will likely be significantly higher than the dB SPL under 1kHz tone, which makes the "estimated dB" pretty much pointless. A closer, more accurate estimation will be based on sensitivity measured using white noise (*which is equal in intensity from 20Hz to 20kHz), except that you can't really find listed spec on those since almost no manufacturer publishes it.

If dB SPL is a concern for you, the best practice is not to rely on some kind of estimation but the practice of listening to your headphone at the lowest volume possible. If that still feel too loud, that means you either need better noise isolating headphone (i.e. IEM), noise cancelling headphone, or perhaps you shouldn't have listened to music in such a noisy environment (if that's the case).


----------



## RAFA

thebearded1 said:


> I've been searching online for the same question.  Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4?  I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5.  I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work.  The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out.  Thoughts?



I could not find anything in the internet. As if no one who has a BTR5 has a PS4.

I tried a few times to connect. Sometimes the BTR5 is visible for my PS4, sometimes not. Never managed to get a connection. I gave up on it.

Happy for you the ES100 works!


----------



## Shotgun.Preacher

Hi everyone  Finally got my BTR5, the sound is amazing... but! When volume on my phone (iPhone X) is less then 35% i can hear a very strong distortion, music just goes 8 bit  Anybody else had this problem? Did not find it in the thread. FW version is 1.0.6


----------



## Iplaydrunk99

this or ES100?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Iplaydrunk99 said:


> this or ES100?


Depends on the headphone you're going to use with.
With easier to drive ones, i'd pick the ES100.
The Btr5 has more power.
ES100 has better software/app.


----------



## ClieOS

Shotgun.Preacher said:


> Hi everyone  Finally got my BTR5, the sound is amazing... but! When volume on my phone (iPhone X) is less then 35% i can hear a very strong distortion, music just goes 8 bit  Anybody else had this problem? Did not find it in the thread. FW version is 1.0.6



Could very well be that the iPhone digital volume control is eating away too much bit-depth and thus degrading the SQ. The solution is to keep the volume on iPhone very high and just use BTR5 to control the final volume.


----------



## HaBo

ClieOS said:


> It only does if you are going to listen to pure 1kHz sine wave all the time.
> 
> As an industry wide practice, headphone sensitivity in spec is always measured with a pure 1kHz sine wave test tone, so if you rely on FiiO app to calculate the dB SPL using the listed spec, it only reflects / estimate dB under a 1kHz tone. On the other hand, music goes from 20Hz to 20kHz with the fact that it is not gong to be a flat frequency response (both on the music as well as on the headphone), so the actual dB SPL will likely be significantly higher than the dB SPL under 1kHz tone, which makes the "estimated dB" pretty much pointless. A closer, more accurate estimation will be based on sensitivity measured using white noise (*which is equal in intensity from 20Hz to 20kHz), except that you can't really find listed spec on those since almost no manufacturer publishes it.
> 
> If dB SPL is a concern for you, the best practice is not to rely on some kind of estimation but the practice of listening to your headphone at the lowest volume possible. If that still feel too loud, that means you either need better noise isolating headphone (i.e. IEM), noise cancelling headphone, or perhaps you shouldn't have listened to music in such a noisy environment (if that's the case).



Ok, thanks, I understand. But I know the frequency response of my iem so I can compensate for the 1khz.
Do you know other and cheaper dac or dap that estimate dB level like the BTR5 or is it the only one on the market ?

And, for your information, with my HD600 I have no problem with low level listening (think because it's an open back so I have son reference in ambient noises in the office), but with my IEM, I am too much isolated to know at wich level I am.


----------



## ClieOS

HaBo said:


> Ok, thanks, I understand. But I know the frequency response of my iem so I can compensate for the 1khz.
> Do you know other and cheaper dac or dap that estimate dB level like the BTR5 or is it the only one on the market ?
> 
> And, for your information, with my HD600 I have no problem with low level listening (think because it's an open back so I have son reference in ambient noises in the office), but with my IEM, I am too much isolated to know at wich level I am.



I have no idea how you can compensate but all you need to know is the output voltage of any source at a particular level (under a known load, i.e.your headphone), then you can easily calculate the dB SPL. Google 'calculate headphone loudness' and you should find website that offers the calculation tool. However, as said before, it only works if we are talking on condition under pure 1kHz sine wave test tone. In real world situation, the result will not be the actual dB SPL on the headphone.


----------



## SyntaxGuy (Apr 6, 2020)

thebearded1 said:


> I've been searching online for the same question.  Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4?  I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5.  I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work.  The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out.  Thoughts?


I'm in the same situation but with the Nintendo Switch. It can recognize the es100 and the Fiio btr3 without any problems. But with the Btr5, the Switch simply doesn't recognize the device and plays the audio though it's speakers. As for the Btr5, any USB connection would display as 44.1khz regardless of what device it's connected like a battery bank. My theory is that the Fiio Btr5 has a unique USB communication protocol that only some devices like smartphones and computers can understand and not others like the PS4 and Switch. I wonder if Fiio can emulate the btr3 software onto the Btr5 for better compatibly with more devices?


----------



## ClieOS

SyntaxGuy said:


> ..... My theory is that the Fiio Btr5 has a unique USB communication protocol that only some devices like smartphones and computers can understand and not others like the PS4 and Switch. I wonder if Fiio can emulate the btr3 software onto the Btr5 for better compatibly with more devices?



BTR5 doesn't have a unique USB protocol but an advanced USB protocol - XMOS chipset is widely considered the best for USB DAC, specially for anything > 24/96. However, devices such as Nintendo Switch has software limitation that works for USB Audio Class 1 device only - which is why it works for BTR3 / ES100 (which uses CSR8670 for USB controller, and it is USB Audio Class 1) but fail to recognize XMOS. Microsoft Windows, before 8.1 and not that long ago, also has that limitation as well as the build-in USB Audio Class driver Microsoft used is only for Class 1 and not Class 2 (where Mac has Class 2 driver built-in at least a decade earlier). Which is why older Windows need to install driver for anything using XMOS or any USB DAC that needs to play over 24/96. Switch is another example of software limitation because Nintendo doesn't want to implement Class 2 driver - and the OS underneath Switch is actually capable of handling Class 2 driver as it is Android / Linux based. It is less so that FiiO needs to fix the problem but Switch needs to include better driver.


----------



## Hooga (Apr 7, 2020)

BTR5's built-in *EQ does NOT work via the USB* connection. This is already very bad. *What's even worse, is Fiio's tech support answer and attitude.*
When faced with this issue on their support forums they candidly claim that it is _"not supported"_, that they_ "also have many other devices support USB DAC, but EQ does not work in this usage"_, and when faced with the blatantly misleading information written on their public web site, they simply say _"we did not mention the EQ will support in USB DAC mode"._
http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=44932&extra=page=1
So in short for them at Fiio it's the user's fault not to call them before purchasing anything they advertise and check the exact extent of each single feature they claim on their spec sheets. Simple as that.
This is not just a deplorable attitude, it's by and large irreceivable.
I just wanted to share the above with the community.
On similar technological conditions with their direct competitors, commercially speaking Fiio is not worth customer money - they certainly already received my last cent anyhow, and I will spend some positive time (I have a lot during this quarantine...) dismantling their reputation - as they deserve - whenever I'll have the opportunity.


----------



## ClieOS

@Hooga are you suggesting FiiO is lying about EQ or you just not happy with the customer service? I didn't see evidence of the former though we have covered the issue in this very thread early on and FiiO did confirmed that EQ won't work on USB DAC - though I also mentioned a few times that the EQ on most source will be far better than that built into BTR5, so I don't personally see the point of having it on USB DAC mode.


----------



## Hooga

@ClieOS I am stating they are knowingly, guiltily avoiding to clarify this lack on their official product information, thereby publishing misleading presales information.

The fact that such technical situation was already known, and even discussed on this very forum, much earlier than today is an evident aggravation to my point.

On their website *today* Fiio is explicitly disclaiming about internal EQ not working via LDAC codec. 
That would be the perfect position to also add "... and via USB too".
They don't do that even if - as you justly say - they have been knowing this longtime. How do you call such behaviour ?

The above is not counterbalanced by your (good!) technical advice which if I take it correctly sounds like "that internal EQ is not big loss I tell ya". 
It does not work but we wouldn't use it anyway as we can get much better. Fine, we're lucky - this time.  What about next time ? 
What about if we suddnely discover that a more central feature in another Fiio product is not as advertised? 
Will they still feel entitled to respond _"we did not mention_ _that_" ??   
Will they one day arrive at stating _"hey pal, dont tell us you're one of those suckers that eats all advertising crap... you did read 200 forum pages on head-fi before purchasing didnt you" ?
That's _what is totally irreceivable, and it's a general brand attitude, not a single-product-related issue.
_That _is what I felt like warning everyone about.


----------



## zolom (Apr 7, 2020)

After a long while of abandoning my es100, for the btr5, I did return to it. Boy,  I did miss that sound signature ,  especially with a small eq bend around the sub-bass area. My btr5, goes now for a long sleep in the drawer.

Streaming Tidal hifi,  via UAPP,  using LDAC 660 or 990.
IEMs:  se846, fh7.


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 7, 2020)

Hooga said:


> @ClieOS I am stating they are knowingly, guiltily avoiding to clarify this lack on their official product information, thereby publishing misleading presales information.
> ....



I can understand you hold a grudge for FiiO on BTR5 not working 100% the way you wants it to be, but otherwise it seems you were assuming it should have worked the way you wanted it without double checking in the first place. This is a little bit naive on this age of time where review and discussion can be found all over the internet. If it is not specifically advertised, you shouldn't assume it will be so -  or at least you should really do a more thorough research next time. Simply came to the forum and asked us about it (or read through older replies as questions about BTR5's EQ have been answered many times) could have easily told you what you need to know.


----------



## Hooga

@ClieOS 
What a manufacturer states on its official documents must be true and accurate. What Fiio states is not, and this is a fact. Full stop.
Third parties collecting information about a manufacturer's product, and making them publicly available, is not an "excuse" for the manufacturer to "misbehave" on his official documents. 
"I don't care about my manuals and spec sheets, who reads them anyway?"   <--- this is not allowed. Not legally, I mean.
On the contrary, third-party collected and published information might happpen to prove that the manufacturer in discussion might not simply "be wrong" in its official statements, but indeed "be in bad faith". Like in this case.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

My opinion on that is to look at other manufacturers as well.

I'm not fighting for any company that hides necessary information, don't get me wrong on that.

Take a look at some AVRs.
Most of the AVRs, in my example Denon,  do have 9 amps build in.
The power delivery has to be 210w per channel, they claimed on the data sheet and their website.
With this description most will think that this device has plenty of power to drive most of the speakers very well, while they don't look at the spec of max power consumption, which is 780 watts.
Do a little math and it would be clear that this AVR didn't have 210W at each channel (fully driven). 
On the Denon, it is capable to deliver 210w, but only with 1 channel driven. ^^


Same case with your statement about data sheets and the truth behind. 


It comes to 1 fact all the time. Double check what has been claimed and what's real.
There're a lot of sources around the web.

I fully agree with your thoughts, but marketing depts fool us anytime.


----------



## HipHopScribe

They never affirm that the EQ works over USB. They do state that it doesn't work with LDAC. There might be a sin of omission there, but they aren't presenting false information


----------



## digititus

HipHopScribe said:


> They never affirm that the EQ works over USB. They do state that it doesn't work with LDAC. There might be a sin of omission there, but they aren't presenting false information


Correct. Not mentioning that a specific feature is not implemented is not the same as saying it is implemented and it doesn't work.


----------



## Hooga

@Chris Kaoss 
I work in a totally different industry, but  - guess what -  in sales & marketing. I do know what you're talking about 
I do also agree that "users should be smart, to avoid being fooled by vendors". Of course.
What would be wrong, though, is to conclude that - therefore - vendors are allowed to be "somewhat" / "up to an extent" "approximative" in their statements. "Allowed to lie... just a bit"
They are not. 
In some regulated markets "not at all". 
In other markets, like this one, strict regulations are in place for some aspects (safety, mainly - lie on a battery's certification and we laugh loud...), and are missing or loose for others.
What can (and does) work in lieu of regulation is user feedback.  Let's all prefer more accurate manufacturers, and the inaccurate ones will quickly understand what they are doing wrong. Keep on "excusing" people like Fiio for "technically not lieing" in a case like this, and they will go on and do worse next time. Simple as that.

Anyhow, I just wanted to share that - to me - their attitude is totally wrong, and for this reason I will not buy from them anymore.
Maybe I'm the only stupid thinking like that. I'll live with it


----------



## ClieOS (Apr 7, 2020)

As far as I know on all the BT adapters, only Radsone EarStudio ES100 has ever claimed that their EQ will (and indeed does) work on USB DAC (*the other one is Qudelix 5K, which is by the same designer as ES100, though it is not actually out yet). Assuming EQ will just work in USB DAC mode on any other BT adapter without confirmation from either the manufacturer or the users is not a given, at least not in this point of time. In fact, this is one of the main reason why ES100 is so popular, especially among EQ user. It is the exception, not the norm - otherwise ES100 would have lost its biggest sale point.


----------



## Hooga

digititus said:


> Correct. Not mentioning that a specific feature is not implemented is not the same as saying it is implemented and it doesn't work.



No it's not. 
Affirming the device has an EQ feature gives the user the right to assume its span encompasses the entire device functionality.
Even more so if - like in this specific case - the manufacturer does explicitly publish _one_ feature limitation  (does not work on LDAC). 
My mentality, of course.


----------



## digititus

Hooga said:


> No it's not.
> My mentality, of course.


Right


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Hooga said:


> @Chris Kaoss
> I work in a totally different industry, but  - guess what -  in sales & marketing. I do know what you're talking about
> I do also agree that "users should be smart, to avoid being fooled by vendors". Of course.
> What would be wrong, though, is to conclude that - therefore - vendors are allowed to be "somewhat" / "up to an extent" "approximative" in their statements. "Allowed to lie... just a bit"
> ...


Sure.

My intention was not to force that vendors do lying all the time.
They just don't telling the whole truth. 
That's a little difference and the costumers have to be careful in any way.

Let's keep looking forward to the day FiiO will release a new firmware to enable eq on all circumstances.
(just dreaming, but sometimes, dreams becoming true)


----------



## Hooga

Chris Kaoss said:


> (just dreaming, but sometimes, dreams becoming true)



 

I'll divert my budget to other vendors for the future anyway. A droplet in an ocean, I know.


----------



## CL14715

Iplaydrunk99 said:


> this or ES100?


I have had better luck and sound out of my es100 paired with EE Valkyries which are hard to drive and low impedance. BTR5 starts sounding stressed at same volume level that es100 puts out crisp sound throughout frequency range.


----------



## ClieOS

CL14715 said:


> I have had better luck and sound out of my es100 paired with EE Valkyries which are hard to drive and low impedance. BTR5 starts sounding stressed at same volume level that es100 puts out crisp sound throughout frequency range.



ES100 might has the upper hand on pure output power over the 3.5mm single-ended output, though BTR5's balanced 2.5mm output has several times the output power over ES100. I recalled you are only using the 3.5mm on both, so it might worth a try to get a 2.5mm balanced cable for your EE Valkyries, especially since the 2.5mm output on BTR5 is noticeably better sounding than its 3.5mm output.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

thebearded1 said:


> I don't own an Xbox, but here's what I did with my PS4: Plugged the ES100 into one of the front USB ports with the supplied USB cable, then plugged my iems into the ES100.  For some reason, I couldn't get the ES100 to work with any cable, other than the supplied cable.  I'm no techno-wiz, so I can't tell you why this is the case.  As for the mic on the ES100, I never tried getting it to function with the PS4.  Perhaps someone else can speak to this.


Thanks!!  

I got some Sony WF-1000MX3's which I'm going to try pairing to the XBOX by Bluetooth to see what that gets me   The music quality was rather disappointing (good noise canceling though) but one thing I love is the ease of pairing them to my Fire Stick to watch the Expanse last night.  

I was plugging my HiBy R6 Pro in as a USB DAC to my projector and then transmitting the sound to my ES100 with Lola's connected to that.  It was a pain in the a$s to set up every time and I got some wicked latency.  Could never get the lips to match with the words no matter what I did


----------



## Romeo Dolorosa

Romeo Dolorosa said:


> I will look at the cables you linked to but I think I would like to have a more budget friendly option, I don't think I need silver plated MMCX cables for my S215 (gym) IEMs, that will likely break at some point anyway like all the others before did. However, once I got another pair of IEMs for home use like the TinHifi T4 or someting similar, I am willing to spend a bit more on a better cable.
> Hopefully a member with knowledge about different asian cable vendors will chime in regarding cables for the HD600, 100+€ for a cable are simply out of my price range as I still have to get a new phone that supports high-res audio and LDAC and some microSD storage to store my lossless music library on.


Please excuse bringing this up again but I am still struggling to find more affordable cables for the balanced output of the BTR 5 (that I don't own yet because of the current delivery situatiuon) and my two headphones, I would appreciate it very much if someone could help me out with some links as the only one I was able to find was this one (but whose reviews aren't too good..).
I would like to order them so I have them ready once the BTR 5 is in stock again.

TIA!


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Apr 8, 2020)

Romeo Dolorosa said:


> Please excuse bringing this up again but I am still struggling to find more affordable cables for the balanced output of the BTR 5 (that I don't own yet because of the current delivery situatiuon) and my two headphones, I would appreciate it very much if someone could help me out with some links as the only one I was able to find was this one (but whose reviews aren't too good..).
> I would like to order them so I have them ready once the BTR 5 is in stock again.
> 
> TIA!


Did you looked at 



Spoiler: this thread



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...se-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/page-276


?
You'll find your cable there, i think. 

For example
FAAEAL 4Core

Or this on

LN006162 Silber 8 core 2,5mm


----------



## Sioban (Apr 8, 2020)

Sioban said:


> Started to feel worried that I am going to ruin my 3,5 mm audio out on my new laptop by accidentally bumping my hand into the male connector from time to time.
> So I just bought the BTR5 from https://www.fiio.eu/
> 
> Do any of you guys know if that site is legit? Are there any better deals to be had for a person living in the northern "communist" parts of Europe?



Received my unit. My initial reaction is that the range is not great compared to cheap BT-earbuds from Anker or the Sony MDR-1000X. I live in a house with two floors. The BTR5 is paired to my Laptop which is placed on the second floor. The transmission of sound gets interrupted when I am in my kitchen on the first floor. I have not experienced this problem with the earbuds from Anker or the headphone from Sony.

Any pro tips to extend the range of the BTR5?


----------



## ClieOS

Sioban said:


> Any pro tips to extend the range of the BTR5?



You might want to look into what BT codec BTR5 is using when connected to your laptop. The better the BT codec, the less range it has.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

Romeo Dolorosa said:


> Please excuse bringing this up again but I am still struggling to find more affordable cables for the balanced output of the BTR 5 (that I don't own yet because of the current delivery situatiuon) and my two headphones, I would appreciate it very much if someone could help me out with some links as the only one I was able to find was this one (but whose reviews aren't too good..).
> I would like to order them so I have them ready once the BTR 5 is in stock again.
> 
> TIA!


I’d check out Zynsonix dude. Bryan from there made me a balanced cable to go from my Audeze LCD-2’s to my HiBy R6 Pro.  It’s beautiful and the sound is amazing.  They could prob make you what you want


----------



## hmscott

CL14715 said:


> Even if it only happens on low gain? Is it possible the low gain is run through different circuitry that is faulty?


Have you tried any other headphones yet?  Do you still have your BTR5?

I was also running the BTR5 at low gain on my IEM's (2.5mm and 3.5mm) and high gain on the over the ear headphones (3.5mm).

Sorry it took so long to respond, it's been weird here lately - did I say that already?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Sioban said:


> Received my unit. My initial reaction is that the range is not great compared to cheap BT-earbuds from Anker or the Sony MDR-1000X. I live in a house with two floors. The BTR5 is paired to my Laptop which is placed on the second floor. The transmission of sound gets interrupted when I am in my kitchen on the first floor. I have not experienced this problem with the earbuds from Anker or the headphone from Sony.
> 
> Any pro tips to extend the range of the BTR5?


Connected to my surface pro, the range of the BTR5 is even worst on aptx compared to connection with my V30 on Ldac.
When a second device is connected to my surface, my logitech MX Master for example, the music starts to interrupt from time to time.

Seems that the bluetooth device in my surface pro is the weak point here.
Never encountered such flaws with the BTR5 connected to my V30.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 9, 2020)

thebearded1 said:


> I've been searching online for the same question.  Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4?  I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5.  I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work.  The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out.  Thoughts?


Yup, the BTR5 won't work on the Nintendo Switch either... I haven't tried the PS4 or Xbox - after some initial research the consensus is it's up to Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and FiiO to work together to get it working.  FiiO needs to notify / push each of the others to work together to get it working - if that is even possible. @FiiO

The good news is that the new FiiO BTR3k is working with the Nintendo Switch, I just hooked it up and am listening right now. 

The BTR3k @ $69 isn't too expensive to dedicate for use on the Switch.  PS4 / Xbox - if those work with the BTR3k?


----------



## CL14715

hmscott said:


> Have you tried any other headphones yet?  Do you still have your BTR5?
> 
> I was also running the BTR5 at low gain on my IEM's (2.5mm and 3.5mm) and high gain on the over the ear headphones (3.5mm).
> 
> Sorry it took so long to respond, it's been weird here lately - did I say that already?


Yea I still have it... I ordered a custom 2.5 mm cable for my Valkyries and I just ordered the Legend X, which is less finicky than the Valkyrie. I'm hoping the balanced will perform better on the Valkyries.


----------



## ClieOS

For those who are using the beta version of FiiO Control app, please note that the official version has made it to the Play Store. 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fiio.control

Go to the link above, uninstall the beta and reinstall it from Play Store. It will works with the new BTR3K as well (which the beta version won't).


----------



## 0rangutan

I recall someone posting about a possibly faulty 2.5mm socket on their BTR5?
Anyway, I have mine going back for a replacement due to the socket failing.  It is usable but suffers from a poor connection, requiring careful positioning to work.
Hoping the replacement is more reliable.


----------



## tmb821

I’m interested in one of these. I currently have the es100, any real reason to switch? I’m happy with the es100.


----------



## 515164

Luke Skywalker said:


> Thanks!!
> 
> I got some Sony WF-1000MX3's which I'm going to try pairing to the XBOX by Bluetooth to see what that gets me   The music quality was rather disappointing (good noise canceling though) but one thing I love is the ease of pairing them to my Fire Stick to watch the Expanse last night.
> 
> I was plugging my HiBy R6 Pro in as a USB DAC to my projector and then transmitting the sound to my ES100 with Lola's connected to that.  It was a pain in the a$s to set up every time and I got some wicked latency.  Could never get the lips to match with the words no matter what I did



Try using the XM3's EQ, it's pretty nice and it stays saved in the buds.


----------



## Rick T.

Hi,

Is the current firmware more stable than the stock one? Should I update mine?.. I use it (BT) with Apple devices, PC Laptop, and an LG OLED TV.. Thanks.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 13, 2020)

@FiiO - my BTR5 has developed an oddity - the BTR5 connects via BT to my intended device - I get the "connect tone" and then almost immediately I get a 2nd "connect tone".  And when that 2nd "connect tone" sounds I get no audio from the intended device.  I can switch over to the "input" device and I hear the audio in low res single channel (mono), but the main connection audio is dead when I switch back to it (Windows 10 Sound Control Panel, selecting device).  On my phone / tablet I only have the one connected BT device to work with, and I hear no audio.

On my Tablet I was connecting with BT LDAC just fine for many hours, and then out of the blue this problem started.  The LDAC connection still showed up on the connected device, but the BTR5 after making that 2nd "connect tone" shows APTX as the connection.  Tuning off LDAC option for the connection on the Tablet / Phone and reconnecting doesn't help.  Unpairing and re-pairing without enabling LDAC doesn't work either.  Each time I connect I get the "connect tone" and then immediately get a 2nd "connect tone" and no audio from the connected device.  Plugging in the USB DAC works fine.

I have cleared the BTR5 pairings (on the BTR5) and re-paired on PC, Phone, Tablet - clearing the pairings (on each device) several times, and the same anomaly happens with each of them.  I have turned off BT on each of the other devices - eventually I powered down all of my other devices in the house just in case something was grabbing the connection, and even with every device off when I power up the BTR5 I get that "connect tone" and APTX shows in the display.

I can connect USB DAC and it works fine, and on my PC when I disconnect my BTR5 is connected via BT but no audio comes through.

I tried this enough times that occasionally I get audio through BT connection as expected only to have BT audio stop working should I pause a video or change media, then I can't get the BT audio back.

The BTR5 hasn't frozen so the 10 second power button reset doesn't come into play - how do I reset the device in another way?

This anomaly also means I can't connect to the BTR5 via BT reliably to use the FiiO Control/Music app to reset except on a rare couple of times, and I used the reset to defaults and shutdown options, but that didn't help either.

I thought of re-installing the current 1.0.6 firmware again to see if that would reset the BTR5, but I didn't want to risk bricking the BTR5, as USB DAC mode works fine.  Should I give that a try?  Do you have a "1.0.7" alpha/beta I can try?

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?


----------



## ClieOS

Rick T. said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is the current firmware more stable than the stock one? Should I update mine?.. I use it (BT) with Apple devices, PC Laptop, and an LG OLED TV.. Thanks.



Of course you should install the latest firmware as it will have the latest bug fix. 



hmscott said:


> @FiiO - my BTR5 has developed an oddity - the BTR5 connects via BT to my intended device...



BTR5 remember the last 2 devices connected and has multi-points connection. That seems to be what bothering you. I'll suggest you force connect two devices in a row one after the other, then shut one down to check if the problem still happens


----------



## Hanesu

tmb821 said:


> I’m interested in one of these. I currently have the es100, any real reason to switch? I’m happy with the es100.



Main reason would be better materials and haptics imo. 
Also, tonality is a bit different. Mids are more pronounced than ES100. But that is more a question of taste. 
On the other hand, app and EQ are way better with the ES100. 

So in the end - if you are happy with what you have I guess there is no reason to switch!


----------



## hmscott (Apr 13, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> BTR5 remember the last 2 devices connected and has multi-points connection. That seems to be what bothering you. I'll suggest you force connect two devices in a row one after the other, then shut one down to check if the problem still happens


Thank you for the suggestion, do you have any other ideas?

"I have cleared the BTR5 pairings and re-paired on PC, Phone, Tablet - several times..."

I cleared the BTR5 pairings by holding down up/down volume on the BTR5 while powered on - which clears all the device pairings on the BTR5, and powered off all other devices except the BTR5 and the device I was trying to pair - and I still get the 2nd "connect chime" right after the first "connect chime".

There is no 2nd device powered on for the BTR5 to connect to, and I cleared the previous pairings on the BTR5, so why does the BTR5 have a 2nd "connect chime" right after the 1st "connect chime", my BTR5 never did that before last night.

Also, after I cleared the pairings on everything including the BTR5, I re-paired with the PC, S20, S6 one after the other, so I've already been through cycling 2 pairings and after each pairing the same thing happens - connect chime then 2nd connect chime, APTX shows as the connection in the BTR5 display.

This all happened right after I paired my S6 Tablet for the first time with the BTR5, and switched LDAC mode on and off on the S6 options for the BTR5.  That's as near a root cause as I can come up with so far. @FiiO

I've bought a new BTR5 (hifigo.com with DHL shipping) and will continue to debug this one, at least it still works as a USB DAC...

I'm using the BTR3k for BT and USB DAC...


----------



## zolom

I always was a bass-head, so I left my SE846 for a long while, first for the FiiO FH5 and later for the FH7. Sound was good.
Yesterday by chance, I did try the SE846. Boy, I was blown away by the sudden clarity of those. Compare to the FH7 which (now) sounds too boomy and slightly muddy, the SE846 is another story. Initially the sub-bass was not so pronounced as with the FH7, but then I tried the FiiO bass tips (adapted to the narrower SE846 nozzles with a small stem), the sub-bass is there; Now to stay.

Please do not get me wrong. the FH7 are great.
I will use the FH7 while mobile (with the SE100 or BTR5) and the SE846 at home with the Chord Mojo.


----------



## SubSTI (Apr 13, 2020)

Since my cat managed to destroy my XDP-300R DAP I am looking into the BTR5 as a cheap but capable alternative, hooking it up to a Samsung A50, instead of buying a Fiio M11 or iBasso DX160.

Hopefully someone has the Samsung A50 / BTR5 combination in use and can answer my questions:
1. Will it play bit perfect using the USB-C out of the Samsung using Tidal HiFi and UAPP, so as DAC?
- Googled a lot but still can't find the definite answer, only that Android is upscaling everything to 192kHz.
2. If it does bit perfect, what to look for into a usb-c to usb-c cable specifications, or will any Amazon cable do?
3. In Samsung developer mode I found a list of available (= supported?) BT codecs included LDAC, does this actually mean it can use LDAC?


----------



## tomwebster

0rangutan said:


> I recall someone posting about a possibly faulty 2.5mm socket on their BTR5?
> Anyway, I have mine going back for a replacement due to the socket failing.  It is usable but suffers from a poor connection, requiring careful positioning to work.
> Hoping the replacement is more reliable.



That was me. Haven’t got round to sending mine back yet as wasn’t given any idea of how long I would be without it given the need to post it to China from the UK. Will be interested to know how long yours takes to be looked at.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

morgenstern09 said:


> Try using the XM3's EQ, it's pretty nice and it stays saved in the buds.


awesome thanks!  What EQ settings are you using?


----------



## 515164

Luke Skywalker said:


> awesome thanks!  What EQ settings are you using?








Using this one - also notice the -1 for the Clear Bass. My opinion is that they are a bit bassy, so that helped.


----------



## ClieOS

SubSTI said:


> Since my cat managed to destroy my XDP-300R DAP I am looking into the BTR5 as a cheap but capable alternative, hooking it up to a Samsung A50, instead of buying a Fiio M11 or iBasso DX160.
> 
> Hopefully someone has the Samsung A50 / BTR5 combination in use and can answer my questions:
> 1. Will it play bit perfect using the USB-C out of the Samsung using Tidal HiFi and UAPP, so as DAC?
> ...



1. This strongly depends n the USB driver used by the smartphone manufacturer, then it also depends on the particular app. Tidal will probably use the smartphone internal USB Audio driver - I don't know enough of Samsung to tell you much about it, UAPP uses it own driver so it will be bit perfect, as long as you have the right setting.

2. Theoretically any Type-C to Type-C cable will do. Take note to disable charging on BTR5 and maybe you will need to change between USB Class 1 / 2 as well.

3. Yes.


----------



## SubSTI

ClieOS said:


> 1. This strongly depends n the USB driver used by the smartphone manufacturer, then it also depends on the particular app. Tidal will probably use the smartphone internal USB Audio driver - I don't know enough of Samsung to tell you much about it, UAPP uses it own driver so it will be bit perfect, as long as you have the right setting.
> 
> 2. Theoretically any Type-C to Type-C cable will do. Take note to disable charging on BTR5 and maybe you will need to change between USB Class 1 / 2 as well.
> 
> 3. Yes.


Thanks, alternatively I can play Tidal via UAPP.
Good to know that I am not limited to the SBC codec when using BT towards the BTR5.


----------



## ReaperOne

Anyone know how to setting BTR5 to Native DSD Playback so there's no downsampling ?...


----------



## 515164 (Apr 14, 2020)

ReaperOne said:


> Anyone know how to setting BTR5 to Native DSD Playback so there's no downsampling ?...



The only way I was able to do it is by using foobar2000 with the *WASAPI output support* component (and *SACD Audio Decoder* component).

The *Components* tab in Settings/Preferences menu should show these two:





In Playback > Output you should select "*DSD: WASAPI*" (event or push, doesn't matter):





In the end, in *Tools > SACD*, you should choose "*DSD*".as Output Mode.





The only annoying thing is that you can only play DSD files like this, and you'll have to go back to *Playback > Output* and choose just "*WASAPI (event or push)*" (with no DSD) in order to play other normal files.





Something nice is that by using the WASAPI outputs, the sample rate on the BTR5 display will always match the one of the file being played.


Edit: When playing DSD via WASAPI, you won't be able to change the volume in the player. Volume change will only work on the device.


----------



## ReaperOne (Apr 14, 2020)

morgenstern09 said:


> The only way I was able to do it is by using foobar2000 with the *WASAPI output support* component (and *SACD Audio Decoder* component).
> 
> The *Components* tab in Settings/Preferences menu should show these two:
> 
> ...



But, when i try it, the status of FiiO Control Panel is downsampling of my DSD Song


----------



## 515164

ReaperOne said:


> But, when i try it, the status of FiiO Control Panel is downsampling of my DSD Song



I noticed that FiiO Control Panel shows that. But in a case like this, the BTR5's display was correctly showing DSD64.

So either FiiO Control Panel reports wrong data, which I think it's more likely, as DSD works only when choosing DSD WASAPI and other files don't work with this in our case, or either FiiO is lying and they actually just show DSD64 on the display, but deep down the data is downsampled.

By the way, it's not technically a downsample a 2822400 Hz and 1 bit DSD is kind of equivalent with a 176400 Hz and 16 bit PCM. So in this case we would say that maybe it's not native DSD, but the DSD is converted to a PCM signal.


----------



## ReaperOne

morgenstern09 said:


> I noticed that FiiO Control Panel shows that. But in a case like this, the BTR5's display was correctly showing DSD64.
> 
> So either FiiO Control Panel reports wrong data, which I think it's more likely, as DSD works only when choosing DSD WASAPI and other files don't work with this in our case, or either FiiO is lying and they actually just show DSD64 on the display, but deep down the data is downsampled.
> 
> By the way, it's not technically a downsample a 2822400 Hz and 1 bit DSD is kind of equivalent with a 176400 Hz and 16 bit PCM. So in this case we would say that maybe it's not native DSD, but the DSD is converted to a PCM signal.



So technically BTR5 not capable DSD to DSD natively or what ?.. I hope it FiiO @FiiO have updated BTR5 firmware..


----------



## 515164

ReaperOne said:


> So technically BTR5 not capable DSD to DSD natively or what ?.. I hope it FiiO @FiiO have updated BTR5 firmware..



I was saying that it can be one or another, I cannot say for sure. Let me rephrase it:

Option 1: FiiO Control Panel shows wrong info
Option 2: FiiO lied to us, and the BTR5 shows DSD on it's display, but it's actually converting the DSD to a PCM signal

Option 1 seems more plausible, as playing DSD files this way works only if you choose "DSD WASAPI". You would have to reach out to them and ask them why it shows 176400 Hz instead of DSD or something.


----------



## ReaperOne

morgenstern09 said:


> I was saying that it can be one or another, I cannot say for sure. Let me rephrase it:
> 
> Option 1: FiiO Control Panel shows wrong info
> Option 2: FiiO lied to us, and the BTR5 shows DSD on it's display, but it's actually converting the DSD to a PCM signal
> ...



I hope the option 1 is make sense for me, i thought BTR5 have full potential capable to play DSD file natively...Option 2 maybe is happened. Maybe this firmware !.0.6 need be fixed
@FiiO have you check it the info of BTR5 in FiiO Control Panel is showing the downsampling the DSD via PCM mode ?.


----------



## ClieOS

ReaperOne said:


> So technically BTR5 not capable DSD to DSD natively or what ?.. I hope it FiiO @FiiO have updated BTR5 firmware..



Probably just a wrong setting on your end.

DSD plays just fine with mine, with Jriver using FiiO ASIO.





FiiO Control Panel showing DSD mode with 2.8MHz sampling rate when I am playing normal DSD album.


----------



## 515164

ClieOS said:


> Probably just a wrong setting on your end.
> 
> DSD plays just fine with mine, with Jriver using FiiO ASIO.
> 
> ...



Nice! So maybe it's actually something related to foobar and the plugins, even if the BTR5 shows DSD64 on the display...


----------



## FiiO

You could try to follow this instruction and check again: http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=42714

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

The BTR5 is available in Aliexpress again now: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html

Best regards


----------



## emba4

SubSTI said:


> Since my cat managed to destroy my XDP-300R DAP I am looking into the BTR5 as a cheap but capable alternative, hooking it up to a Samsung A50, instead of buying a Fiio M11 or iBasso DX160.
> 
> Hopefully someone has the Samsung A50 / BTR5 combination in use and can answer my questions:
> 1. Will it play bit perfect using the USB-C out of the Samsung using Tidal HiFi and UAPP, so as DAC?
> ...



Sadly I can't answer any of your questions I'm just curious how the cat broke your DAP


----------



## Arghavan

FiiO said:


> The BTR5 is available in Aliexpress again now: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html
> 
> Best regards


I thought the MSRP was 110ish, wasn't it?


----------



## ReaperOne

ClieOS said:


> Probably just a wrong setting on your end.
> 
> DSD plays just fine with mine, with Jriver using FiiO ASIO.
> 
> ...


Can you show the seeting of ASIO, SACD and the Components are you used ?...Maybe my foobar component is differe
nt


----------



## ClieOS

ReaperOne said:


> Can you show the seeting of ASIO, SACD and the Components are you used ?...Maybe my foobar component is differe
> nt



There isn't much setting to show you. In Jriver, just go to Tools > Option > Audio > Audio Device > (select FiiO ASIO as output), then a few line down there, select Bitstreaming: Yes (DSD) - All done, the rest of the settings are left in default.


----------



## SubSTI

emba4 said:


> Sadly I can't answer any of your questions I'm just curious how the cat broke your DAP


I put it on the charger cable and they managed to drop it on the floor when I was away. They then apparently played around with it, I found it under the couch after a long search.
Tried to power it on but the no power sign came on, put it back on the charger cable but it wouldn't charge, sometimes for a sec when I fiddle the connector a bit, I assume the connector leads have come loose inside the XDP as a result of their joyful play...


----------



## FLN Luco (Apr 15, 2020)

Can the *Fiio BTR5* balanced output _(240mW - 2.8V - at 32 Ω loaded)_ drive a *Sennheiser HD-600* _(300 Ohms)_?
I have seen some people saying that it is possible (*zreviews* and *headphonesty.com*), but I also heard a lot of people here at *head-fi.org* saying that it's not possible.
_*I don't care too much about the maximum volume. I usually listen to classical music at a moderate volume. My only concern is about the _*sound quality*_._

Has anybody test this setup?


----------



## hmscott (Apr 16, 2020)

Arghavan said:


> I thought the MSRP was 110ish, wasn't it?


Yup, $109.95, and I actually saw FiiO as a seller on Amazon selling them out at that price, then the prices went up again as production stopped and BTR5's were scarce.  But, I didn't see FiiO raise the price from $109.99 until now.

It's disappointing that the price has stabilized around $139.99, especially from FiiO, but if FiiO can't keep up production to meet demand the price of the BTR5 will remain high - especially when their distributors are also selling at $139.99.  All of the sellers of the BTR5 on AliExpress are at $139.99 or higher now.

Amazon: $139.95 (Sold by All About Office and Fulfilled by Amazon)
HiFiGo: $129.99 (discounted from $149.99)
AliExpress Wholesale: lowest I see is $139.99, some higher
Walmart: $109.99... but it's Out of Stock

Perhaps Walmart will get more in, or FiiO will release a batch of BTR5's on Amazon at $109.99...


----------



## FiiO (Apr 17, 2020)

You could also get the leather case for BTR5 when order it at Aliexpress now. The price of BTR5 in our Aliexpress is now 129.99USD.

Best regards


----------



## HipHopScribe

FLN Luco said:


> Can the *Fiio BTR5* balanced output _(240mW - 2.8V - at 32 Ω loaded)_ drive a *Sennheiser HD-600* _(300 Ohms)_?
> I have seen some people saying that it is possible (*zreviews* and *headphonesty.com*), but I also heard a lot of people here at *head-fi.org* saying that it's not possible.
> _*I don't care too much about the maximum volume. I usually listen to classical music at a moderate volume. My only concern is about the _*sound quality*_._
> 
> Has anybody test this setup?



Yes, it will drive it. Will it get as much out of it as an OTL tube amp or a high quality desktop amp? No, which might be what people mean about it not being possible, but let's be realistic the BTR5 is for portability and convenience while still sounding good


----------



## lucasd

FLN Luco said:


> Can the *Fiio BTR5* balanced output _(240mW - 2.8V - at 32 Ω loaded)_ drive a *Sennheiser HD-600* _(300 Ohms)_?
> I have seen some people saying that it is possible (*zreviews* and *headphonesty.com*), but I also heard a lot of people here at *head-fi.org* saying that it's not possible.
> _*I don't care too much about the maximum volume. I usually listen to classical music at a moderate volume. My only concern is about the _*sound quality*_._
> 
> Has anybody test this setup?


I listen to HD650 using unbalanced output (the max volume won't be too high) so I see no problem with balanced one.


----------



## KowalskiFUT

Anyone tried BTR5 with Senn IE800?


----------



## 0rangutan

tomwebster said:


> That was me. Haven’t got round to sending mine back yet as wasn’t given any idea of how long I would be without it given the need to post it to China from the UK. Will be interested to know how long yours takes to be looked at.


Mine arrived with Advanced MP3 Players as an RMA return today.
I'll let you know how long a replacement takes!


----------



## ReaperOne

@FiiO Is BTR5 have overcharge protection ?


----------



## ClieOS

ReaperOne said:


> @FiiO Is BTR5 have overcharge protection ?



Yes it has.


----------



## NovaDev

Hi. I'm considering BTR5 as my "ultimate solution" for portable/mobile DAC because its support as an USB DAC. Have a few questions though (I tried searching through this thread but had no luck)

1. When connected to a phone in USB DAC mode. Will BTR5 use the phone power or its own battery? I think it charges off computer power when connected to a computer.

2. The only way to connect to an iPhone in USB DAC mode is via a Lightning -> USB Camera Adapter right?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

NovaDev said:


> Hi. I'm considering BTR5 as my "ultimate solution" for portable/mobile DAC because its support as an USB DAC. Have a few questions though (I tried searching through this thread but had no luck)
> 
> 1. When connected to a phone in USB DAC mode. Will BTR5 use the phone power or its own battery? I think it charges off computer power when connected to a computer.
> 
> 2. The only way to connect to an iPhone in USB DAC mode is via a Lightning -> USB Camera Adapter right?



1. you can decide, but it is better to turn charging off on the Btr5 settings.

2. Afaik, yes.


----------



## Devodonaldson

NovaDev said:


> Hi. I'm considering BTR5 as my "ultimate solution" for portable/mobile DAC because its support as an USB DAC. Have a few questions though (I tried searching through this thread but had no luck)
> 
> 1. When connected to a phone in USB DAC mode. Will BTR5 use the phone power or its own battery? I think it charges off computer power when connected to a computer.
> 
> 2. The only way to connect to an iPhone in USB DAC mode is via a Lightning -> USB Camera Adapter right?


In the fiio app, you can turn off charging. iPhone reads the BTR5 as requiring too much power for use as a USB DAC, even when you turn off charging first. That has been my experience, anyway


----------



## jeejack

Or directly from btr. For this operation you don't need the app.


----------



## NovaDev

Devodonaldson said:


> In the fiio app, you can turn off charging. iPhone reads the BTR5 as requiring too much power for use as a USB DAC, even when you turn off charging first. That has been my experience, anyway



Do you mean that it doesn't even work with iOS using Camera Kit + Charging off?


----------



## Devodonaldson

NovaDev said:


> Do you mean that it doesn't even work with iOS using Camera Kit + Charging off?


To this day, I haven't been able to get it to work, but perhaps someone else has.


----------



## Simple Man

Chris Kaoss said:


> 1. you can decide, but it is better to turn charging off on the Btr5 settings.
> 
> 2. Afaik, yes.



So as I understand well, you cannot connect an iphone using BT for the connection between the iphone and the btr5?
I want to keep the btr5 in my pocket as I use the iphone. No wires on my phone please.


----------



## NovaDev

Devodonaldson said:


> To this day, I haven't been able to get it to work, but perhaps someone else has.



Thanks for your help!



Simple Man said:


> So as I understand well, you cannot connect an iphone using BT for the connection between the iphone and the btr5?
> I want to keep the btr5 in my pocket as I use the iphone. No wires on my phone please.



You can still connect to BTR5 from an iPhone via Bluetooth normally. My post was about wired connection from iPhone - which maybe seems impossible (or at least not consistently work) at the moment.


----------



## Simple Man

Do you think the BT connection might be unstable? Maybe?
Lets hope not, I just ordered one.


----------



## caprimulgus

Simple Man said:


> Do you think the BT connection might be unstable? Maybe?



With my iPhone (an old iPhone 6!!), the connection can be spotty if the phone is in my pants pocket on the opposite side of the BTR5. But as long as my lard-arse isn’t in the way, eg. using the phone in my hand, the connection has been pretty good. YMMV,


----------



## Simple Man

Thanks. But euhhh, I‘m afraid my arse could be an issue here


----------



## Luke Skywalker

NovaDev said:


> Hi. I'm considering BTR5 as my "ultimate solution" for portable/mobile DAC because its support as an USB DAC. Have a few questions though (I tried searching through this thread but had no luck)
> 
> 1. When connected to a phone in USB DAC mode. Will BTR5 use the phone power or its own battery? I think it charges off computer power when connected to a computer.
> 
> 2. The only way to connect to an iPhone in USB DAC mode is via a Lightning -> USB Camera Adapter right?


Hey, 

I too have an iPhone (7) and I just didn't have a great way to listen to music using it, aside from bluetooth or my Dragonfly Red.

This weekend I picked up the iFi xDSD... I absolutely love this device.  I’m listening to Tidal Masters and DSD’s on my JH Lola IEM’s and the sound is unbelievable.  I’m using a 2.5mm balanced male -> 3.5 balanced female adapter, which made a pretty dramatic difference versus an unbalanced.

I had hesitated a little because the thing looks much bigger in pictures.  It’s actually quite tiny in my hand - the hand model must be a munchkin.  Beautiful construction and intuitive controls. Love when the purple light tells me I’m listening to an MQA.  It also plays DSD which is just awesome.

Plenty of power on the IEM’s.  Will test with my Audeze LCD-2’s as soon as my 4.4mm balanced female -> 3.5 balanced male adapter arrives

Haven’t tested the Bluetooth yet...


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey,
> 
> I too have an iPhone (7) and I just didn't have a great way to listen to music using it, aside from bluetooth or my Dragonfly Red.
> 
> ...


Which specific adapter did you end up using?


----------



## lucasd

Luke Skywalker said:


> This weekend I picked up the iFi xDSD... I absolutely love this device.  I’m listening to Tidal Masters and DSD’s on my JH Lola IEM’s and the sound is unbelievable.  I’m using a 2.5mm balanced male -> 3.5 balanced female adapter, which made a pretty dramatic difference versus an unbalanced.


2.5mm balanced male -> 3.5 balanced female adapter That is a way to BURN device
2.5mm balanced female -> 3.5 balanced male  adapter That is proper way to use balanced headphone on unbalanced devices


----------



## pilgrimbilly

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hey,
> 
> I too have an iPhone (7) and I just didn't have a great way to listen to music using it, aside from bluetooth or my Dragonfly Red.
> 
> ...



Good for you. So why are you posting on the BTR5 thread?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

lucasd said:


> 2.5mm balanced male -> 3.5 balanced female adapter That is a way to BURN device
> 2.5mm balanced female -> 3.5 balanced male  adapter That is proper way to use balanced headphone on unbalanced devices


Ahhh I'm a dingaling.  I typed it wrong.  I'm using the 2nd one you mentioned


----------



## Luke Skywalker

pilgrimbilly said:


> Good for you. So why are you posting on the BTR5 thread?


Somebody helped me with some info on this thread and I just wanted to report my impressions in case others were interested.  Apologies if it's unneeded here


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> Which specific adapter did you end up using?


This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0828KB38L/ 

I also ordered a lightning splitter because I have the iPhone 7 that doesn't have wireless charging.  Eventually my battery is dead and I have to stop listening so I can charge my phone.  I have no idea if it'll actually work though https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0855RRBVK


----------



## hifi80sman

Luke Skywalker said:


> This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0828KB38L/
> 
> I also ordered a lightning splitter because I have the iPhone 7 that doesn't have wireless charging.  Eventually my battery is dead and I have to stop listening so I can charge my phone.  I have no idea if it'll actually work though https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0855RRBVK


Nice 8 core adapter.  I hope it works like a charm!


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Apr 20, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> This one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0828KB38L/
> 
> I also ordered a lightning splitter because I have the iPhone 7 that doesn't have wireless charging.  Eventually my battery is dead and I have to stop listening so I can charge my phone.  I have no idea if it'll actually work though https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0855RRBVK


Curios about the device with 3.5 balanced out, or do i have mistaken something?
Is there any such a device? Never seen before.

My advice is not to use the mentioned adapter from the amazon link with any 3.5mm output, except the input of a PM-3.


----------



## hifi80sman

Chris Kaoss said:


> Curios about the device with 3.5 balanced out, or do i have mistaken something?
> Is there any such a device? Never seen before.
> 
> My advice is not to use the mentioned adapter from the amazon link with any 3.5mm output, except the input of a PM-3.


The iFi xDSD has a balanced 3.5mm out.  Most are 2.5mm and 4.4mm 5-pole.


----------



## Knightsfan11

Has anybody tried using this while cycling? Is the BTR5 light enough to clip onto your jersey, using a shorter IEM cable?


----------



## ClieOS

Chris Kaoss said:


> Curios about the device with 3.5 balanced out, or do i have mistaken something?
> Is there any such a device? Never seen before.
> ...





hifi80sman said:


> The iFi xDSD has a balanced 3.5mm out.  Most are 2.5mm and 4.4mm 5-pole.



Technically xDSD doesn't have a real balanced 3.5mm output. iFi S-balanced is not 'balanced' in the common understanding of the word used in balanced audio. It is really more closer to active ground in implementation.



Knightsfan11 said:


> Has anybody tried using this while cycling? Is the BTR5 light enough to clip onto your jersey, using a shorter IEM cable?



If you clip it on the jersey's collar, then it should be fine. Otherwise one of these might help:



Spoiler



For those of you who use BT headphone adapter, here is one accessory that I strongly recommend - it is called ReadeREST on Amazon but you can find similar products on Aliexpress if you search "magnetic glasses holder". Instead of clipping your BT adapter on an uncomfortable / awkward position on your shirt, this allows you to place your BT adapter with far less restriction.


----------



## Knightsfan11

ClieOS said:


> Technically xDSD doesn't have a real balanced 3.5mm output. iFi S-balanced is not 'balanced' in the common understanding of the word used in balanced audio. It is really more closer to active ground in implementation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, you would slip the BTR5 through that device, using the BTR5 clip?


----------



## ClieOS

Knightsfan11 said:


> So, you would slip the BTR5 through that device, using the BTR5 clip?







If it is purely for sport, I reckon BTR3K might be more suitable for you. It is smaller and still sound exceptionally good.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

ClieOS said:


> Technically xDSD doesn't have a real balanced 3.5mm output. iFi S-balanced is not 'balanced' in the common understanding of the word used in balanced audio. It is really more closer to active ground in implementation.


I know the s-balanced claim.
For my understanding, you can't use a balanced cable on this 3.5 output.
It's just the internal connection of the device, right?
Using a 3.5 balanced plug on this output may cause damage?


----------



## ClieOS

Chris Kaoss said:


> I know the s-balanced claim.
> For my understanding, you can't use a balanced cable on this 3.5 output.
> It's just the internal connection of the device, right?
> Using a 3.5 balanced plug on this output may cause damage?



Actually, plugging in a balanced 3.5mm cable / headphone into a single-ended 3.5mm output is fine. You won't damage anything (read more here). The worst case is the one side won't have sound (usually the right side) because the pin inside the 3.5mm socket isn't able to make full contact with the plug. There are rare cases that sometime some balanced 3.5mm headphone will work on single-ended 3.5mm socket without any adapter, though it isn't likely going to happen on BTR5. Your best bet is to use an adapter or change the cable.


----------



## jsmiller58

Chris Kaoss said:


> I know the s-balanced claim.
> For my understanding, you can't use a balanced cable on this 3.5 output.
> It's just the internal connection of the device, right?
> Using a 3.5 balanced plug on this output may cause damage?


Hmmm.  Not sure what you mean.  I have an xDSD and use 2.5mm balanced cables with a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm balanced adapter to connect to the xDSD.  Absolutely ludicrous design decision on the part of iFi, though.


----------



## Rudivanb

KowalskiFUT said:


> Anyone tried BTR5 with Senn IE800?


Just received my BTR5, good first impression with Sony MDR-EX650 and Fiio FH1. However less so with the IE800 which I find a bit dark sounding fed by the BTR5. But also on other amps the IE800 is not my first choice nowadays.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hifi80sman said:


> Nice 8 core adapter.  I hope it works like a charm!


Oh it's awesome - listening to it right now.  However, I came to the conclusion that I'd like one with a right angle even better.  Picture holding an iPhone 7 and the xDSD together in front of you - the adapter points straight up.  I think it would be super cool to have a right angle one for just ergonomics (for lack of a better word...)

I asked the seller and they said they do sell one however it's on back order.  I'm going to buy it as soon as it's in stock so I'll let you guys know: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0827VJYZK

My lightning splitter was less successful.  The one that I posted the link for seems to only handle power and not data.  I tried connecting my Apple OTG cable (lighting to female USB) to one of the ports and it "didn't do nuthin'"  

This puppy is on the way so hopefully it works: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XXZJ73P/ 

In any case, I'll probably grab the new 5g iPhone when it comes out so then I'd have a wireless charging option


----------



## tret

Does anyone know if there’s a way to disable the phone call handling feature and limit BTR5 to audio playback? I’ve had a number of phone calls switch to Bluetooth during a conversation and it’s really the only thing I dislike about this setup.


----------



## hifi80sman

tret said:


> Does anyone know if there’s a way to disable the phone call handling feature and limit BTR5 to audio playback? I’ve had a number of phone calls switch to Bluetooth during a conversation and it’s really the only thing I dislike about this setup.


If you're on Android, you should be able to specify call and/or music in the BT menu screen for the BTR5 device.


----------



## tret

hifi80sman said:


> If you're on Android, you should be able to specify call and/or music in the BT menu screen for the BTR5 device.



Have an iPhone, sadly.


----------



## HipHopScribe

tret said:


> Have an iPhone, sadly.



I don't have an iPhone but it seems like you can only set it either to default to Bluetooth or the phone speaker:

https://www.iphonelife.com/content/how-to-set-your-speaker-or-headphones-default-audio-iphone


----------



## tret

HipHopScribe said:


> I don't have an iPhone but it seems like you can only set it either to default to Bluetooth or the phone speaker:
> 
> https://www.iphonelife.com/content/how-to-set-your-speaker-or-headphones-default-audio-iphone



This would be great if there was a “handset” option, I don’t typically use my speakerphone when making or answering calls.


----------



## HipHopScribe

It does seem like a really big oversight on Apple's part


----------



## hmscott (Apr 22, 2020)

KowalskiFUT said:


> Anyone tried BTR5 with Senn IE800?





Rudivanb said:


> Just received my BTR5, good first impression with Sony MDR-EX650 and Fiio FH1. However less so with the IE800 which I find a bit dark sounding fed by the BTR5. But also on other amps the IE800 is not my first choice nowadays.


Are you listening connected to the BTR5 2.5mm or 3.5mm output?  The limiting factor for driving power hungry headphones is the power output of the BTR5 on 3.5mm vs the 2.5mm.  I found moving to the 2.5mm output on the BTR5 makes a bigger difference for power hungry devices.

If you get a balanced 2.5mm replacement cable to switch to the BTR5 2.5mm balanced output you might also see better results.

Today I've been testing a SendyAudio Aiva that comes stock with a balanced 4.4mm cable + a 3.5mm unbalanced adapter.  The Aiva's sound "good" with the BTR5 3.5mm output, but I'm looking for a 4.4mm balanced to 2.5mm balanced adapter to switch to the BTR5 2.5mm output, I'm hoping the higher power 2.5mm output of the BTR5 opens up the Aiva's.

BTW, I didn't order the Aiva's with a 4.4mm balanced cable specifically for the BTR5, I ordered the Aiva's in anticipation of receiving the M15 I ordered - hopefully the new post Covid-19 batch of M15's are shipping this week.

I'll report back when I've A/B'd the Aiva's between the BTR5 2.5mm and 3.5mm outputs.

*Update*: Normally I listen to my headphones with the BTR5 volume set around 22-24, but with the Aiva's I was listening at 32-34 when I reported the BTR5 made them sound "good".  Well, cranking the BTR5 volume up to 42-45 really made the Aiva's sing... cranking it up further at 52-56 the Aiva's are sucking the "soul" out of the BTR5 - and my ears.  The Sendy Aiva and BTR5 really sound great together.  I sure hope the M15 sounds as good...

I'm back down to 32-35 while listening to Amazon Music Standard / HD / Ultra HD, Tidal Master's are next.


----------



## jeejack

lucasd said:


> 2.5mm balanced male -> 3.5 balanced female adapter That is a way to BURN device
> 2.5mm balanced female -> 3.5 balanced male  adapter That is proper way to use balanced headphone on unbalanced devices





lucasd said:


> 2.5mm balanced male -> 3.5 balanced female adapter That is a way to BURN device
> 2.5mm balanced female -> 3.5 balanced male  adapter That is proper way to use balanced headphone on unbalanced devices



If i buy hidizs sonata ii hd and my iem's are 2.5 mm it's ok to use an 3.5mm to 2.5mm adaptor ?


----------



## hmscott (Apr 22, 2020)

@FiiO - I've "fixed" my original BTR5 "problem" and it's working great again on BT and USB.  Long story short, the "problem" was a Gulkit BT device that I didn't realize was getting power while the Nintendo Switch was powered off - the Switch Dock still has power! So silly. That darned Gulkit BT transmitter connects so fast - locking out any other BT device connections on my BTR5.

Oddly no amount of "resetting" the BTR5 "pairings" cleared that Gulkit device "pairing", as the BTR3k which was never paired with that Nintendo BT device ever had trouble with it.

Perhaps the BTR5 needs a firmware update to be able to *really* clear BT pairings?  I tried holding both Volume Up / Down at the same time and it did reset and power down the BTR5, but the BTR5 when powered up was still connecting to the "hidden" Nintendo BT device even after clearing the BTR5 pairings many times.

Maybe the BTR5 even when cleared of all pairings can still be forced to take a connection for an "unknown" device that was paired with the BTR5 before?  I didn't look into clearing the Gulkit pairings yet...

It was really frustrating thinking I'd cleared the BTR5 pairings only to have the BTR5 still locked into a BT connection with that "hidden" device


----------



## lucasd

jeejack said:


> If i buy hidizs sonata ii hd and my iem's are 2.5 mm it's ok to use an 3.5mm to 2.5mm adaptor ?


Yes it is OK to convert balanced headphones to unbalanced device .
It is not advised to convert balanced device to unbalanced headphones (it might work, but is risky and gives no gain vs unbalanced output)


----------



## hmscott (Apr 22, 2020)

jeejack said:


> If i buy hidizs sonata ii hd and my iem's are 2.5 mm it's ok to use an 3.5mm to 2.5mm adaptor ?





lucasd said:


> Yes it is OK to convert balanced headphones to unbalanced device .
> It is not advised to convert balanced device to unbalanced headphones (it might work, but is risky and gives no gain vs unbalanced output)


The benefit to converting IEM's that come with 3.5mm unbalanced cabling to 2.5mm balanced cables are audible, especially with the BTR5 that has higher power out of it's balanced 2.5mm output.

Converting the other way around, from balanced 2.5mm / 4.4mm to 3.5mm unbalanced is more a practical convenience when your device doesn't have a 2.5mm or 4.4mm output handy.  There's no expected audible benefit in the conversion.

Unfortunately there's no easy way to convert headphones wired for unbalanced output to balanced, you need headphones / IEM's that have independent wiring to each earpiece to connect a balanced cable.


----------



## Romeo Dolorosa (Apr 23, 2020)

Luke Skywalker said:


> I’d check out Zynsonix dude. Bryan from there made me a balanced cable to go from my Audeze LCD-2’s to my HiBy R6 Pro.  It’s beautiful and the sound is amazing.  They could prob make you what you want





Chris Kaoss said:


> Connected to my surface pro, the range of the BTR5 is even worst on aptx compared to connection with my V30 on Ldac.
> When a second device is connected to my surface, my logitech MX Master for example, the music starts to interrupt from time to time.
> 
> Seems that the bluetooth device in my surface pro is the weak point here.
> Never encountered such flaws with the BTR5 connected to my V30.


Thank you both very much for the recommendations and please excuse the late reply, I do really appreciate the help!
I will let you know what I settled with once I found something that fits my budget! 

Have a nice weekend!


----------



## megabigeye

Finally nabbed one of these while it's in stock at B&H!  I feel like I've been waiting months for this thing. (Yes, yes, I know I could've gotten it sooner and cheaper from another source, but it's a store I like.)

...This question has probably been asked 15,425 times in this thread already, but...  any recs for a decent 2.5mm MMCX cable, ~$75?  I'm not a big believer in cables changing sound, but if I were pressed I'd want neutral to slightly bright.  I'm more concerned with build quality and pliability.  FiiO cable?  But which?  Anyway, so I don't look like a complete jerk, I'll scan the thread for ideas.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video review about BTR5. All the sass I always include with my videos, comedy, and some interesting things that I wanted to mention about it!


----------



## szore

Lopsy1 said:


> I have my one for a month now and it is still crystal clear. You don't know what type of plastic it is made of. It's not one of those cheap rubber/silicon phone cases that turns yellow after couple of weeks. I have both Btr3 and Btr5, and design of Btr5 is excellent. The good thing about removable clip is that if you brake it, you can just get replacement without sending the whole unit for repair.


I am thinking of upgrading to the 5 from the 3; Can you talk a little about the sonic diffrences? Thanks.


----------



## szore

Timoteew said:


> Hi all, for anyone interested I've written up a review of the FiiO BTR5 with a comparison to the Q5S. You can read it on my website here: https://www.modioaudio.co.uk/blog/fiio-btr5-its-spunky - please let me know what you think!


A review should include less detail about your feelings and lifestyle, and more detail about sonic characteristics.


----------



## szore

Chris Kaoss said:


> Maybe the Btr5 doesn't handle this extremly low impedance ciems ( 3 ohm ) very well.
> Too much current needed?
> Sadly i'm not able to reproduce your behavoir bc i don't have such low imp earphones.
> 
> ...


I'm using my btr3 with my custom Valkyries and they sound fine, if it helps...


----------



## Hanesu

Dobrescu George said:


> I made a video review about BTR5. All the sass I always include with my videos, comedy, and some interesting things that I wanted to mention about it!




Your videos are great and I really like your review style! ☺️👍

Though I must say I disagree with the statement that „Bluetooth will always sound worse than wired“. This is too much generalized. It’s a very complex topic in my opinion that depends on so many factors. You need to add many „ifs“ and „whens“. Anyway - keep on doing great work!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Hanesu said:


> Your videos are great and I really like your review style! ☺👍
> 
> Though I must say I disagree with the statement that „Bluetooth will always sound worse than wired“. This is too much generalized. It’s a very complex topic in my opinion that depends on so many factors. You need to add many „ifs“ and „whens“. Anyway - keep on doing great work!



Thank you for your kind words! 

I usually mean that BT will always sound worse than wired, if using the same device. Of course, some companies can implement DSP when using BT and make up for the loss in raw detail, but BT implies some kind of loss of data by design.

I will try to not make such a generalized statement next time


----------



## Hanesu (Apr 23, 2020)

Dobrescu George said:


> I usually mean that BT will always sound worse than wired, if using the same device. Of course, some companies can implement DSP when using BT and make up for the loss in raw detail, but BT implies some kind of loss of data by design.



Yes, of course generally I know what you mean.  
But me, I even would not go as far as that! I think the only correct statement that one can make concerning BT audio is that "_currently there is no BT codec that works losslessly_".

Whether the "loss" is always truly audible, whether one can really talk about "better" or "worse" sound quality, especially if the music is already compressed on the device, whether other factors are more important than the codec itself....are just a few questions that one can ask concerning this topic.

Well, just some thoughts....

Hope you did not take it as an offence! Again: Keep on doing great stuff!


----------



## jsmiller58

When available I always chose wired in the past.  With the BTR5 and LDAC...  not so much anymore.  My ears are in their late 50’s (technically so is the part they are attached to, I suppose), so that might make a difference.  But to me, I really would have to try hard - and be lucky - to reliably detect the difference between my BTR5 with LDAC vs wired to my LG v30, or my R6 Pro, or any number of USB-C dongles I have connected to those sources.  And this is with balanced or SE cables, and $30 or $600 IEMs.


----------



## 515164

jsmiller58 said:


> When available I always chose wired in the past.  With the BTR5 and LDAC...  not so much anymore.  My ears are in their late 50’s (technically so is the part they are attached to, I suppose), so that might make a difference.  But to me, I really would have to try hard - and be lucky - to reliably detect the difference between my BTR5 with LDAC vs wired to my LG v30, or my R6 Pro, or any number of USB-C dongles I have connected to those sources.  And this is with balanced or SE cables, and $30 or $600 IEMs.



It may sound a little better when using it as a wired DAC vs LDAC, but maybe I'm just imagining it


----------



## dnsnlsn

This is back up on Amazon for 109.99... finally bit the bullet and bought one for myself! Very excited - I had a fiio e10 5 years ago and this will be my next dac/amp since then


----------



## IEManiac

Dobrescu George said:


> I made a video review about BTR5. All the sass I always include with my videos, comedy, and some interesting things that I wanted to mention about it!



In the video you say it is not neutral. Did you measure its frequency response? Or is this your subjective impression?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Hanesu said:


> Yes, of course generally I know what you mean.
> But me, I even would not go as far as that! I think the only correct statement that one can make concerning BT audio is that "_currently there is no BT codec that works losslessly_".
> 
> Whether the "loss" is always truly audible, whether one can really talk about "better" or "worse" sound quality, especially if the music is already compressed on the device, whether other factors are more important than the codec itself....are just a few questions that one can ask concerning this topic.
> ...



Don't worry! 

No offence taken 

I just did a quick check to verify it, and felt like reporting on it. 

Maxxed out the volume on BTR5 and source

Had it on BT, and a cable prepared. Played the same song, same loudness, same headphones, same everything. 

Quickly switched from BT to cable, it can do that in less than a second. 

Sounded better on wired, especially in soundstage and depth of music 

This is why I reported it like that

But I agree, no BT codec is truly lossless, and it is a really complex topic to discuss. 



IEManiac said:


> In the video you say it is not neutral. Did you measure its frequency response? Or is this your subjective impression?



Subjective impressions. It is slightly warm, not warm and thicc like BTR3K.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jsmiller58 said:


> When available I always chose wired in the past.  With the BTR5 and LDAC...  not so much anymore.  My ears are in their late 50’s (technically so is the part they are attached to, I suppose), so that might make a difference.  But to me, I really would have to try hard - and be lucky - to reliably detect the difference between my BTR5 with LDAC vs wired to my LG v30, or my R6 Pro, or any number of USB-C dongles I have connected to those sources.  And this is with balanced or SE cables, and $30 or $600 IEMs.



I won't argue that some people can't hear the differences. 

If I didn't do proper ABX, my input may not be as relkiable, but to check on such statements, I always ABX with volume matching. Reveals differences the best 

In the end, BT is about convenience, and I'll agree that it is really convenient to use it!


----------



## Hanesu

Dobrescu George said:


> Don't worry!





Dobrescu George said:


> Don't worry!
> 
> No offence taken
> 
> ...



Hi! Actually I also have the Btr5 and totally agree with your observation! It _does _sound better wired if the same file is used! 
Just I wanted to say that one cannot generally say „wired (will) always sound (s) better“ - that is all!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Hanesu said:


> Hi! Actually I also have the Btr5 and totally agree with your observation! It _does _sound better wired if the same file is used!
> Just I wanted to say that one cannot generally say „wired (will) always sound (s) better“ - that is all!



Reall fair, and thank you for pointing that out!  

I hope you're rocking and enjoying it a lot in there!


----------



## dnsnlsn

I recently purchased the BTR5 and am deciding on what case to buy for it as the plastic case looks ugly and I don't think ill be needing the clip. So far, there have only been 2 other options online - the FIIO branded plain black case or the DD case with the big cutout down the middle of the case. Am I crazy to think that the FIIO case without the cutout will affect the btr5 unit???? Why does the DD case have a cutout and FIIO does not? 

Any of you guys have any experience with these cases?

maybe @FiiO can chime in


----------



## Forsaked

dnsnlsn said:


> you guys have any experience with these cases?



I have the Fiio case and i really like it, i didn't notice any difference with or without case in Bluetooth reception.


----------



## dnsnlsn

Forsaked said:


> I have the Fiio case and i really like it, i didn't notice any difference with or without case in Bluetooth reception.


I appreciate the reply.. the fiio case certainly looks better


----------



## boodado

I have both and like the FIIO case better.  The DD case is nice as well but I like the BTR5 being fully covered.



dnsnlsn said:


> I appreciate the reply.. the fiio case certainly looks better


----------



## hmscott (Apr 27, 2020)

dnsnlsn said:


> I recently purchased the BTR5 and am deciding on what case to buy for it as the plastic case looks ugly and I don't think ill be needing the clip. So far, there have only been 2 other options online - the FIIO branded plain black case or the DD case with the big cutout down the middle of the case. Am I crazy to think that the FIIO case without the cutout will affect the btr5 unit???? Why does the DD case have a cutout and FIIO does not?
> 
> Any of you guys have any experience with these cases?
> 
> maybe @FiiO can chime in


I've been using the DD Red/Black BTR5 case for a while.  I ordered it instead of the FiiO closed Black case because there was more exposed area for cooling air flow over the BTR5.

Over time the DD case fit has loosened and the case will fall off of the BTR5 when I hold the assemblage by the headphones cable.

When the USB cable is attached to the BTR5 the case is held in place by the USB connection - but I can slide the BTR5 in and out of the case if I push the USB cable through...even so the case is held from falling by the USB cable.

I've just now ordered the FiiO imprinted version of the BTR5 case as I have a new "backup" BTR5 arriving on the 28th.

I will post some comments comparing the two cases when it arrives.


----------



## dnsnlsn

hmscott said:


> I've been using the DD Red/Black BTR5 case for a while.  I ordered it instead of the FiiO closed Black case because there was more exposed area for cooling air flow over the BTR5.
> 
> Over time the DD case fit has loosened and the case will fall off of the BTR5 when I hold the assemblage by the headphones cable.
> 
> ...


This is good to know.. I’ve also ordered the plain black fiio case after several days of mulling haha


----------



## big45-70

Looks like the BTR5 is finally in stock at a few Canadian retailers.  Hows is the sound quality over aac bluetooth with iphone (11 pro max)?


----------



## waynes world

big45-70 said:


> Looks like the BTR5 is finally in stock at a few Canadian retailers.  Hows is the sound quality over aac bluetooth with iphone (11 pro max)?



My ES100 broke, and have been using my Ubtr as a backup (cheap, but dependable!).

I just missed the $75 US sale for another ES100, and I don't know when the Qudelix 5K will become available, so I started snooping around at other options.

The BTR5 wasn't on my radar at all, but I saw what you wrote above so I checked out the price. Nope, a bit too pricey for me. But then I made the mistake of reading more about it, and half an hour later the spontaneous BTR5 purchase was made LOL

I wish the battery lasted a bit longer, but apart from that, I think the BTR5 is going to make me very happy


----------



## megabigeye

Got my BTR5 a day early and have been playing around with it and the app for the last hour or so. First impressions...

As has been mentioned, USB sounds better than Bluetooth, even LDAC

Other than volume, I actually don't notice much, if any, difference between balanced and single-ended; mildly annoyed that I spent money on a cable; whatever, I'll do a little more listening

The app is kind of awful; way too much going on and nothing is very intuitive, though the power/volume estimate is a neat feature; I'll spend more time with it before passing final judgment

I actually thought I was getting EQ to work over LDAC, but maybe something else was going on

Over USB I'm not missing my old DFR or first gen. X5+E12A; sounds pretty great!

Bluetooth sounds better than my Samsung S9, which is about what I was expecting and hoping for


----------



## SyntaxGuy

hmscott said:


> I've been using the DD Red/Black BTR5 case for a while.  I ordered it instead of the FiiO closed Black case because there was more exposed area for cooling air flow over the BTR5.
> 
> Over time the DD case fit has loosened and the case will fall off of the BTR5 when I hold the assemblage by the headphones cable.
> 
> ...


Mine was already loose but I solved that problem by putting a small strip of double sided tape on the inside of the DD case to keep the Btr5 in place.


----------



## strojo

Anyone have a source for the Fiio BTR5 case located in the USA (vs. being shipped from Asia)?


----------



## hmscott (Apr 28, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> Got my BTR5 a day early and have been playing around with it and the app for the last hour or so. First impressions...
> 
> Other than volume, I actually don't notice much, if any, difference between balanced and single-ended; mildly annoyed that I spent money on a cable; whatever, I'll do a little more listening


What IEM/headphone/cable are you using for listening?

It can depend on the resolution of the headphone / IEM.  It also can depend on the material.  The power difference can play a minor or major role depending on the headphones.

My new (to me) SendyAudio Aiva's open up on 2.5mm vs 3.5mm on the BTR5 due to the increased power, and 2.5mm on my BTR3k is quite usable while 3.5mm isn't.

For my IEM's I upgraded to 2.5mm cables and longer listening is much cleaner and enjoyable than on 3.5mm - I've tried swapping back to the 3.5mm cables but I always end up back on 2.5mm.

Cables can have an effect too.  For me going from stock to 16/8 core OFC / Silver on 3.5mm was an improvement, but moving from 3.5mm to 2.5mm end up retiring a bunch of those nice 3.5mm cables, the 2.5mm cables are the same as the 3.5mm cables except for the termination to 2.5mm

After listening on 2.5mm for a few days, try moving back to 3.5mm...it's subtle but for me it's a clear difference.

As another example of a subtle differences I've resolve recently.  I was running 384k/32bit on my PC for my BTR5 (BTR3k is either 44.1 or 48k), even though my material was 44.1k/24bit (Amazon Ultra HD).  To me the higher rate sounded like it was delivering more full sound, and 44.1k sounded sharp - not necessarily in a bad way, but the 394k/32bit sounded more full.

In the past few days, while listening on my SendyAudio Aiva's that "full sound" just sounded "bad", so I remembered to try switching my PC Sound Control Panel for my BTR devices down to the source material setting of 44.1k/24bit, and it was like night and day on the Aiva's- that "more full sound" as perceived on my IEM's / headphones previously was simply a veil of noise on the SendyAudio Aiva's!

Listening critically to audio is a long process of discovery...give it time.


----------



## megabigeye

hmscott said:


> What IEM/headphone/cable are you using for listening?
> 
> It can depend on the resolution of the headphone / IEM.  It also can depend on the material.  The power difference can play a minor or major role depending on the headphones.
> 
> ...


Oh yes, I know it can take a little while to start noticing the subtleties.  Like I said, those were just first impressions and I don't doubt that my opinion may change over time.
I was listening on Westone UM Pro 50 with a FiiO LC-2.5B cable and the FiiO balanced–single-ended adapter when needed.  The UM Pro 50 aren't hugely detailed, but they're certainly revealing enough to hear nuance and subtleties.
Anyway, I'm in no way upset that I didn't hear a difference between 2.5 and 3.5 outlets; more surprised since everybody was in agreement that 2.5 is better.  If anything, I'd be somewhat relieved, since so far I prefer the stock Westone cable to the FiiO ,since it's lighter and more pliable.  I really have no desire to go looking for esoteric cables that may or may not make a noticeable difference (and have even less desire to try and parse through those cable threads)...  (I realize I sound like a grumpy old man...  But I'd like you to know that I'm not that old yet.)

Interesting that you were able to hear a difference between 44.1 and an up-converted version of the same file.  Sounds to me like there must be some software something-or-other (sorry, words are failing me right now.  derp!) causing some sort of colorization.  They should otherwise sound exactly the same if they're from the same file (if they're not from the same file, then that could be the reason).  Impressive that the Aiva could pick it up!


----------



## hmscott (Apr 29, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> Oh yes, I know it can take a little while to start noticing the subtleties.  Like I said, those were just first impressions and I don't doubt that my opinion may change over time.
> I was listening on Westone UM Pro 50 with a FiiO LC-2.5B cable and the FiiO balanced–single-ended adapter when needed.  The UM Pro 50 aren't hugely detailed, but they're certainly revealing enough to hear nuance and subtleties.
> Anyway, I'm in no way upset that I didn't hear a difference between 2.5 and 3.5 outlets; more surprised since everybody was in agreement that 2.5 is better.  If anything, I'd be somewhat relieved, since so far I prefer the stock Westone cable to the FiiO ,since it's lighter and more pliable.  I really have no desire to go looking for esoteric cables that may or may not make a noticeable difference (and have even less desire to try and parse through those cable threads)...  (I realize I sound like a grumpy old man...  But I'd like you to know that I'm not that old yet.)
> 
> Interesting that you were able to hear a difference between 44.1 and an up-converted version of the same file.  Sounds to me like there must be some software something-or-other (sorry, words are failing me right now.  derp!) causing some sort of colorization.  They should otherwise sound exactly the same if they're from the same file (if they're not from the same file, then that could be the reason).  Impressive that the Aiva could pick it up!


The cables aren't expensive, I bought them from Amazon for about $20 for 8 core and $40 for 16 core, KB Ear sourced.  I've also got some **** cables, also not expensive.  They lay better, drape better, and sound better to me than the stock KZ / Blon / NICEHCK / etc cables.

It's also nice that those KBEAR cables come with various ends, so I can compare directly between 2.5mm vs 3.5mm (soon 4.4mm) using the same "wires" - different builds, but using the same wire.  Their Amazon listings change based on stock, right now they've only listed MMCX and C-Pin (no 2-pin) and only 3.5mm in this listing:

KBEAR 16 Core Silver Plated Wire Earphones Upgrade Cable Earphone Replacement Earbuds Exchange Cable AudioContact Replacement Cable for ZSN ZS10 Pro ZSX AS16 A10 CA4 C12 (CPin 2.5mm)
https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-Earphone-Replacement-Exchange-AudioContact/dp/B07TW4VPCC

If you look closely they've got some typos in their MMCX listing - 3.5mm vs 2.5mm, but there's "more" 2.5mm entries than 3.5mm, so I will assume they really intend it to be a 2.5mm cable... I've gotten the wrong cable 2x - 2-pin instead of C-pin delivered - eventually I did get the right C-pin cable.

There are often multiple listings for these KBEAR cables on Amazon:

KBEAR 8 Core Silver Plated Copper 2 Pin 4 Pole Balanced Replacement Earphone Cable, HiFi in Monitor Earbuds Upgraded TRRS Cable Extension Cord for AS10 ZST ZSR ZS10 ZS6 ZS7 (2 PIN 2.5mm Plug)
https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Earphone-Monitor-Replacement-Extension/dp/B07RZY5C8D

KBEAR MMCX Earphone Cable, 8 Core Silver Plated Copper Balanced HiFi Detachable Extension Cord TRRRS 4 Pole Replacement IEM Wire for BGVP DM7 DMG TIN T3 T2 (MMCX 4.4mm Plug)
https://www.amazon.com/Detachable-Upgrade-Earphone-Replacement-Standard/dp/B07S6T8GC4

The SendyAudio "standard" cables are very nice too, but a bit more expensive:

SendyAudio Headphone cable (6N-OCC) for AIVA (1.5m)
https://shop.musicteck.com/products/sendyaudio-headphone-cable-6n-occ-for-aiva-4-4mm-plug-1-5m

SendyAudio Asura Pigtail Adaptor (7N-OCC) 2.5mmBAL male to 4.4mmBAL female
https://shop.musicteck.com/products/sendyaudio-asura-pigtail-adaptor-7n-occ-2-5-male-to-4-4-female

It's been fun discovering new things with the BTR5 / BTR3k... tomorrow my M15 and Blon BL-05's are scheduled to arrive, and so it begins again 

_Interesting that you were able to hear a difference between 44.1 and an up-converted version of the same file. Sounds to me like there must be some software something-or-other (sorry, words are failing me right now. derp!) causing some sort of colorization. They should otherwise sound exactly the same if they're from the same file (if they're not from the same file, then that could be the reason). Impressive that the Aiva could pick it up!_ 

Yup, there's extraneous data being "created" somewhere that's acting as a veil over the sound that the Aiva's show much more distinctly as been "unwanted" as compared to running with native source settings.

Originally I thought that should be the case - native cleaner than upscaled, but my previous headphones - IEM's and over the ear headphones - didn't expose it as "bad", instead the "noise" seemed to fill in the sound and make it seem "more" than it was on native settings.  It was indeed "more", but it's not a good effect on the better resolving Aiva's.

Now I can go back and re-listen to the difference again with a new perspective.  I might still "like it" with the more full sound on the rest of my headphones / IEM's, but maybe this time I'll know better what I am listening to and discern it differently.


----------



## Arghavan

For using with Campfire Audio Solaris, do you recommend getting a balanced cable? Since the output impedance of balanced output is ~2ohms and Solaris is very sensitive. It might affect the sound signature and reduce the bass vs. unbalanced output with 1ohm output impedance.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 29, 2020)

Arghavan said:


> For using with Campfire Audio Solaris, do you recommend getting a balanced cable? Since the output impedance of balanced output is ~2ohms and Solaris is very sensitive. It might affect the sound signature and reduce the bass vs. unbalanced output with 1ohm output impedance.


The BTR5 / BTR3k are low noise for me, and I don't hear noise on either the 3.5mm nor 2.5mm output... but, that's my own personal experience, YMMV. 

I don't have anything low impedance to test, that might change, but it might be a while...

AFAIK all of these FiiO AMP's: M11 / M15 / BTR5 / BTR3k can exhibit noise during quiet / idle points when using low impedance headphones - with only the M11 Pro THX amp showing lower noise in "black spaces".

For me I've heard no noise in between passages nor without the source running, but then again I'm 62 and my high frequencies might be a bit down in sensitivity.  It's not been a problem I've noticed with the BTR5 / BTR3k... perhaps the M15 arriving tomorrow will be different...

As with all audio perceptions your own physical characteristics, listening experience (mines 50+ years), susceptibility to sensitivity at certain frequencies, might have an effect on your own reference results.  So it's best to give it a try yourself directly rather than rely on the observation of others.

The BTR5 / BTR3k are very low cost, as can be 2.5mm balanced cable upgrades, so you don't have a lot to loose, return the BTR5 / BTR3k / cables should you be disappointed with the results.

I'm also around fan bearing computers most / all of my day - until I turn everything off at night, so that also can make a big difference.  My "noise ambient floor" might be much higher than your own.


----------



## 515164

ReaperOne said:


> Anyone know how to setting BTR5 to Native DSD Playback so there's no downsampling ?...



Just found out that the *Music Center app* from Sony has ASIO and WASAPI support, which means direct access to the DAC, with no plugins that are needed to be installed.






It also has DSEE HX which "upscales the sound quality of audio files, reproducing the clear high-range sound that is often lost."

Also, in contrary to the equalizer function, DSEE HX is available when using ASIO/WASAPI exclusive modes. If you're playing a CD/DSD file/files above 16 bit 44.1kHz, the function will not be available.

https://musiccenter.sony.net/en/instruction/inst013.php


----------



## ClieOS

morgenstern09 said:


> It also has DSEE HX which "upscales the sound quality of audio files, *reproducing the clear high-range sound that is often lost*.



The problem is, whatever is lost has never made it to the digital data in the first place, and thus whatever is "re"produced is what Sony engineer wants you to believe is there but never really did. So whatever DSEE HX did is not improving the SQ, but merely improvising SQ.


----------



## 515164 (Apr 29, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> The problem is, whatever is lost has never made it to the digital data in the first place, and thus whatever is "re"produced is what Sony engineer wants you to believe is there but never really did. So whatever DSEE HX did is not improving the SQ, but merely improvising SQ.



Sure, but for whoever likes to use that, it's also there in the Music Center app, that was the point 

Edit: that was actually a secondary point, let's say. The main point is that Music Center can have direct access to the DAC, always playing the files at their sample rate.

DSEE HX can be turned off.


----------



## 515164

Just tested the BTR5 with the Music Center app and a DSD file, using the ASIO mode.


----------



## hmscott

morgenstern09 said:


> Just tested the BTR5 with the Music Center app and a DSD file, using the ASIO mode.


How does it sound?  Does the DSEE HX mode help or hurt the perceived enjoyment of listening to the processed audio?  What are you listening through?  IEM's, or?


----------



## 515164

hmscott said:


> How does it sound?  Does the DSEE HX mode help or hurt the perceived enjoyment of listening to the processed audio?  What are you listening through?  IEM's, or?



I didn't test it with the Music Center app, and I also didn't use on my Walkman WM1A, so I can't really say.

It should bring at least some little improvements to sound coming from lossy files.

I mostly just use the Walkman instead of playing audio from my PC. I use the BTR5 in DAC mode for general PC audio, like Youtube, games, etc.


----------



## premonit

Hi there,

I was pleased with the ES 100 usage for more than an year and half. Like many others, encountered with the problem of the clip. One connection of the clip was broken up, it is still capable to hold the device onto the belt, but it is a question of time when it will be out of order completely...

After some thoughts made up mind to buy the being discussed device...Comparison of the two mentioned ones is very strange for me...See no reason to describe in details sound comparison, but in short: if ES 100 has got the same features of BTR 5 (Hi-res/DSD playback, more powerful amp, etc. and more solid clip construction/ body construction on the whole) I would have with no doubt bought the ES 100 again.

Not going to sell BTR 5 so far, let this experience be, in connection with this I have got some questions.

Whether I am understanding in a correct way the below:

- it is impossible to turn up/down the volume via Fiio Control app while the device is in USB-DAC mode? On the device itself only?
- time operation in Bluetooth/USB modes is no more than 5-6 hours in reality?
- digital indication of charge doesn't correspond actual indexes of time and charge? If I am right, pls do let me know what 20, 40, 60, 80% stand for actually in reference with time meaning.

I comprehend that charge consumption depends upon many factors of usage, but all the same, a provision of average indexes of charge percentage/time ratio will be appreciated. 

Thanks in advance.

P.S. The device is getting warm considerably while being used and charging, is it normal?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

hmscott said:


> Are you listening connected to the BTR5 2.5mm or 3.5mm output?  The limiting factor for driving power hungry headphones is the power output of the BTR5 on 3.5mm vs the 2.5mm.  I found moving to the 2.5mm output on the BTR5 makes a bigger difference for power hungry devices.
> 
> If you get a balanced 2.5mm replacement cable to switch to the BTR5 2.5mm balanced output you might also see better results.
> 
> ...


Huge difference going from unbalanced to balanced with my JH Lola IEM's btw...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

premonit said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I was pleased with the ES 100 usage for more than an year and half. Like many others, encountered with the problem of the clip. One connection of the clip was broken up, it is still capable to hold the device onto the belt, but it is a question of time when it will be out of order completely...
> 
> ...


I had the same thing happen to my clip.  When I emailed the seller on Amazon about it they sent me a brand new one and didnt' even ask for the old one back.  It was awesome...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jsmiller58 said:


> When available I always chose wired in the past.  With the BTR5 and LDAC...  not so much anymore.  My ears are in their late 50’s (technically so is the part they are attached to, I suppose), so that might make a difference.  But to me, I really would have to try hard - and be lucky - to reliably detect the difference between my BTR5 with LDAC vs wired to my LG v30, or my R6 Pro, or any number of USB-C dongles I have connected to those sources.  And this is with balanced or SE cables, and $30 or $600 IEMs.


We have a lot of the same gear!  You might enjoy the iFi xDSD dude...  I never had a good setup for listening to Tidal and Qobuz straight from my iPhone (unlimited data) with my JH Lola's and Audeze LCD-2's


----------



## premonit

Luke Skywalker said:


> I had the same thing happen to my clip.  When I emailed the seller on Amazon about it they sent me a brand new one and didnt' even ask for the old one back.  It was awesome...



That would be great, but unfortunately it is not feasible by two reasons:
- the warranty has expired 
- I am from the country which is out of Amazon shipping zone at present...


----------



## megabigeye

THE FOLLOWING POST WAS MADE WHILE IRRITABLE!  PLEASE TAKE WHAT I SAY WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!

...Here are some further impressions:


single-ended still sounds very good to me…  I thought maybe I could hear a slight difference vs. balanced, but it’s one of those things that I’ll only hear if I’m really listening for it.  If I’m just enjoying the music, I’ll never notice.  Honestly, I’m not convinced there’s any difference at all.  I’ll give it more time still. (I had to stop listening in balanced since my UM Pro 50 are my only 'phones with a balanced cable and my ears were starting to get sore.)

Drives my UM Pro 50 and PM-3 nicely in single-ended; not enough power for my DT 1990.

The FiiO app still seems awful.  It’s bad enough that I don’t feel like getting to know it.  Maybe later, when I’m in a better mood.

I realize now that the loudness/power estimate feature is just a silly gimmick with nearly no meaning…  it doesn’t specify whether that SPL or power is for 2.5 or 3.5, high gain or low.  Without being able to account for those things, the numbers it spits out are completely meaningless.

Why on God’s green earth does it need to announce to me that the BTR5 is connected when I go into Bluetooth settings?!  I know!  That’s why I’m trying to adjust its settings!

Further, why does it sometimes announce that with a text chime that fades my music...  But sometimes it doesn't make that chime?!

Why are there always two icons at the top of my screen, one grey, one red?

Why when I first open the app is there a mini-player style window at the top, blocking access to the settings?  And why does closing that window close the entire #^%^%^ app?!?!

What do each of the “low pass filters” actually do?  I couldn’t really hear much difference between them and there’s no explanation, just cute squiggly lines.  The ES100’s different filters were easy to differentiate, these ones are not.  And why do we need these different filters at all?  Why can’t there be one filter: the one that sounds best?

Battery life is really bad.  I think I listened for two hours and it was claiming 50%.  Of course, that’s assuming that’s accurate…  which I somehow doubt.

…of course, then I listened for another hour after charging it and it still says 100%.

Having weird, extremely annoying interruptions when using USB on Android.  Don’t know if it’s the BTR5, UAPP, the FiiO app, SoundAlive (I didn’t even know that existed till it crashed), or some other Android problem.  It could also be something I was doing, since I was changing settings.  It would stop every couple of minutes till I closed UAPP and un-/re-plugged the BTR5, at which point things seemed to function normally.  I'll withhold judgment on this particular fault until it happens again.

So far, other than sound, I’m a little underwhelmed.  The battery stinks, the app stinks, the firmware kinda stinks.  Sounds good, though.  And it’s tiny and looks nice. I’ll probably end up keeping it, but for now I’m feeling a little annoyed by the experience.

I’m somewhat hopeful that FiiO could fix some of the problems with firmware/software updates (app, battery life, battery gauge, probably some other things, too)…  but knowing FiiO, I don’t entirely expect them to do that.  They’d rather come out with the BTR5K.

I also realize that I have my usual spring allergies, which causes my ears to be a little stuffy, which could affect my ability to hear differences between 2.5mm/3.5mm and filters.


----------



## Poganin

Is the battery life really this bad? I'm not entirely satisfied with the Hip-Dac so I've been looking at this little gizmo, but I've read reports of 9 hours from the BTR5.


----------



## 515164 (Apr 29, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> What do each of the “low pass filters” actually do?



I managed to find this, from LG V30 which uses an ESS SABRE dac:





Also, here are some descriptions provided for the AK dacs:





This is related to the FiiO X7 II:





Maybe all these will give you an idea.


----------



## szore

Just fired up my new BTR5, using it in 2.5 USB DAC and BT off my Android phone, sounds fantastic! Listening with my custom Valkyries and Eros II cable....


----------



## megabigeye

morgenstern09 said:


> I managed to find this, from LG V30 which uses an ESS SABRE dac:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Though those kind of present more questions than they answer. "Stronger" versus "punchier" bass; "clear" versus "natural;" "emphasized bass" versus "powerful sound." Yeesh. It's enough to make my head spin. I can't imagine if I hadn't been reading audiophile jargon for the last decade plus! I still stand by my contention that there should just be one option that makes it sound as it's supposed to sound.

Anyway, I'm complaining, but I do appreciate your post. Also, thanks for not just getting irritated by my irritated post.


----------



## ClieOS

megabigeye said:


> ...Here are some further impressions:
> 
> The FiiO app still seems awful.  It’s bad enough that I don’t feel like getting to know it.  Maybe later, when I’m in a better mood. *Which FiiO app? There are two: FiiO Music and FiiO Control.*
> 
> ...






Poganin said:


> Is the battery life really this bad? I'm not entirely satisfied with the Hip-Dac so I've been looking at this little gizmo, but I've read reports of 9 hours from the BTR5.



It depends A LOT on the BT codec you used, the loudness / volume setting as well as other minor setting in BTR5. You can probably get 9 hours if you are using either SBC or AAC with a very efficient headphone on low volume with all the extra stuff turned off. For most case, 7~8 hours are more likely is what you are going to get out of it.


----------



## megabigeye (Apr 29, 2020)

Thanks @ClieOS. I was using the FiiO Music app but just downloaded the Control app. We'll see if that's a little less wonky. It almost seems as though the Bluetooth control part of the Music app is actually a separate app running inside the first app. Weird.

Yeah, I know that UAPP uses its own drivers, plus I was fiddling around with settings, plus... SoundAlive?... Whatever that is was crashing, which is apparently a problem on the S9 running Android 10. UAPP has always been stable for me, so I'm disinclined to believe that's the problem, but I don't know. Like I said, I'll try to reserve judgment on this problem till I can replicate it and figure out what's going on.

That's a good question about the firmware. I'll check tomorrow and update it as need be.

And sorry, all, for the grousing and complaining. I was tired, the BTR5 was annoying me, and I couldn't hold it in.

Oh yeah, re: the filters: yeah, I know it's whichever sounds best to me (if I could hear a difference), but as a wise man once sang, "There are seven kinds of Coke, 500 kinds of cigarettes, this freedom of choice in the USA drives everybody crazy!"


----------



## HipHopScribe (Apr 30, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> Thanks for that. Though those kind of present more questions than they answer. "Stronger" versus "punchier" bass; "clear" versus "natural;" "emphasized bass" versus "powerful sound." Yeesh. It's enough to make my head spin. I can't imagine if I hadn't been reading audiophile jargon for the last decade plus! I still stand by my contention that there should just be one option that makes it sound as it's supposed to sound.
> 
> Anyway, I'm complaining, but I do appreciate your post. Also, thanks for not just getting irritated by my irritated post.



If people don't care to read audiophile jargon or can't hear the difference between the filters than they can just stick with the default filter or pick any filter really. It's not like any sound "bad" and there's not really one that sounds "best," it's subjective. Fiio adds the ability to change them because it's a feature a lot of audiophiles want to have. If you don't want to change the filter or figure out which you like best, just don't


----------



## szore

megabigeye said:


> THE FOLLOWING POST WAS MADE WHILE IRRITABLE!  PLEASE TAKE WHAT I SAY WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!
> 
> ...Here are some further impressions:
> 
> ...


I had it plugged into computer as dac, and had my Logitech control pod plugged into it while watching a movie, and once in a while the sound stopped. Do not use any of the apps for music, just MediaMonkey or Hiby player. Sounds fantastic and I love it. Don't know what all the drama is about, I guess people have different expectations.


----------



## carpler

hmscott said:


> Yup, I had read your comments, and I was in the middle of adding more details to that post but I got distracted, so I am back now adding more details.
> 
> In Developer Options you can view "Bluetooth Audio Codec" supported options without a BT device connected, at least I am able to view it with BT off on my Note 10+ running
> 
> ...



Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).


----------



## IEManiac

carpler said:


> Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
> Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
> When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
> Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
> I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).


Headphone jacks these days can be quite good. And BT codecs are still lossy.

Fiio should include a usb-c to usb-c cable in the box.


----------



## szore

carpler said:


> Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
> Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
> When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
> Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
> I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).


What ear/head phones are you using?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

carpler said:


> Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
> Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
> When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
> Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
> I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).


Maybe the Kirin Chipset of the 8 Pro doesn't support any higher codec, i guess.


----------



## megabigeye

HipHopScribe said:


> If people don't care to read audiophile jargon or can't hear the difference between the filters than they can just stick with the default filter or pick any filter really. It's not like any sound "bad" and there's not really one that sounds "best," it's subjective. Fiio adds the ability to change them because it's a feature a lot of audiophiles want to have. If you don't want to change the filter or figure out which you like best, just don't


Yes, I have just been leaving it on the default filter (well, I think it's the default, it doesn't specifically say whether it is or not).  It's like going to the store to pick up laundry detergent: you're standing there in the aisle, faced with a whole row of detergents, each of them looks similar, but makes separate claims, cost different amounts, are different sizes, different brands, smell different; maybe with all these choices you _still_ can't find exactly what you're looking for.  But why are there so many choices?  If there were fewer choices it's doubtful anybody would give a damn which detergent they picked so long as it gets their laundry clean and doesn't smell disgusting.  It's presenting a false sense of choice where that isn't really necessary.
Anyway, this is very much a first world problem, I realize.  I'm not actually upset about it.  Like you said, just leave it on default or pick any that I don't hate.



szore said:


> I had it plugged into computer as dac, and had my Logitech control pod plugged into it while watching a movie, and once in a while the sound stopped. Do not use any of the apps for music, just MediaMonkey or Hiby player. Sounds fantastic and I love it. Don't know what all the drama is about, I guess people have different expectations.


Yes, I think I'm going to just stick to UAPP for music, and it does sound fantastic.  Even over Bluetooth it sounds great.

I'd like to claim that there was no drama, but I was definitely being a little dramatic yesterday. /sheepish  Most of my complaints were about the FiiO Music app, but if I'm not using that, those problems go away.  So far the Control app seems more than adequate for its purpose.

Other than that and the battery, the rest of my complaints are mostly philosophical/ethical.  Why is there a 2.5mm balanced connection at all?
If balanced sounds better than single-ended, why is that the case?  It's not as if balanced inherently sounds better than single-ended.  If balanced and single-ended sound the same, then why include the balanced jack at all (especially if it's just going to confuse the customer)?  If balanced is only included for convenience, it'd be just as convenient to include a balanced adapter, plus that could potentially save customers money.
Maybe there some good reason that they included both jacks, but my guess is that it's to pander to audiophiles' misunderstandings and sell as many units as possible.  FiiO, of course, is under no obligation to make the best product possible, nor the product that I most desire...  But that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

Anyway.  These are all small potatoes, I know.  The BTR5 does sound great, I just wish the battery lasted longer and that I didn't feel obligated to buy a new cable in order to (potentially) get the most out of it.


----------



## szore

megabigeye said:


> Yes, I have just been leaving it on the default filter (well, I think it's the default, it doesn't specifically say whether it is or not).  It's like going to the store to pick up laundry detergent: you're standing there in the aisle, faced with a whole row of detergents, each of them looks similar, but makes separate claims, cost different amounts, are different sizes, different brands, smell different; maybe with all these choices you _still_ can't find exactly what you're looking for.  But why are there so many choices?  If there were fewer choices it's doubtful anybody would give a damn which detergent they picked so long as it gets their laundry clean and doesn't smell disgusting.  It's presenting a false sense of choice where that isn't really necessary.
> Anyway, this is very much a first world problem, I realize.  I'm not actually upset about it.  Like you said, just leave it on default or pick any that I don't hate.
> 
> 
> ...


Balance and unbalanced do not sound the same. Balanced output is cleaner and the stereo separation is more defined giving a better defined soundstage and image placement. Also many people (myself included) only have 2.5 cable terminations. Balanced output also tends to have more power output (not sure why this is the case). This is good for me when I am using my CL2 planar, which tend to love higher voltage. Sometimes 3.5 out may be preferred; it can give music a warmer, bigger, more generous sound over balanced, after all this is music not surgery!


----------



## megabigeye

szore said:


> Balance and unbalanced do not sound the same. Balanced output is cleaner and the stereo separation is more defined giving a better defined soundstage and image placement. Also many people (myself included) only have 2.5 cable terminations. Balanced output also tends to have more power output (not sure why this is the case). This is good for me when I am using my CL2 planar, which tend to love higher voltage. Sometimes 3.5 out may be preferred; it can give music a warmer, bigger, more generous sound over balanced, after all this is music not surgery!


But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no _inherent_, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended.  The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way.  They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better.  There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand.  I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different.  I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.


----------



## szore

megabigeye said:


> But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no _inherent_, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended.  The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way.  They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better.  There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."
> 
> Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand.  I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different.  I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.


Relax, we're just talking, no one is arguing, its what we do here in the forums, nitpick things to death! The technical difference between bal and unbal is balanced has an independent ground for left and right channels, unbalanced shares a common ground.


----------



## megabigeye

szore said:


> Relax, we're just talking, no one is arguing, its what we do here in the forums, nitpick things to death! The technical difference between bal and unbal is balanced has an independent ground for left and right channels, unbalanced shares a common ground.


Oh, good. I wasn't arguing and I'm pretty relaxed (currently lying on the couch, listening to some jazz via the BTR5!), but I wasn't sure if you were in the same boat.
Yes, I know that's one difference between balanced and unbalanced, but I don't think that alone would cause I difference in sound.

Here's a question for the thread at large: anybody have a case that fits both IEMs and the BTR5?


----------



## szore

megabigeye said:


> Oh, good. I wasn't arguing and I'm pretty relaxed (currently lying on the couch, listening to some jazz via the BTR5!), but I wasn't sure if you were in the same boat.
> Yes, I know that's one difference between balanced and unbalanced, but I don't think that alone would cause I difference in sound.
> 
> Here's a question for the thread at large: anybody have a case that fits both IEMs and the BTR5?


https://audio46.com/products/campfire-audio-black-textured-faux-leather-case


----------



## carpler

szore said:


> What ear/head phones are you using?



For this "test" I use my favorite "portable" Koss KSC75. Conntected directly to the phone they sounds good, but with the BTR5 connected via BT and aptX HD the sound is worse...



Chris Kaoss said:


> Maybe the Kirin Chipset of the 8 Pro doesn't support any higher codec, i guess.



Yes I think so...

I test the BTR5 also as a USB DAC connected to my pc and used my modified AKG K701 and the sound is great balanced, muche better than unbalanced.
But I can not use the K701 when I'm "out of the door".
So I'm looking for good headphones balanced.
Yes I know I already made this question, but I don't found a good answer, so I'm trying again.
What I'm looking for:
- balanced headphone
- easily portable (not so big!)
- NO IEM
- budget under 100€

Sound reference (I like in this segment): Koss KSC75, V-Monk Plus
I can consider also something sounding as Grado SR80 (but cheaper!) if they can be easily modified to make them balanced.
No idea?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

megabigeye said:


> But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no _inherent_, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended.  The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way.  They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better.  There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."
> 
> Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand.  I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different.  I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.


You're absolutly right. 
We all do enjoy the louder sound output out of the 2.5mm jack on the Btr5, or this belongs to the more power out of the balanced output, which suits well to some/most headphones.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Apr 30, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> Headphone jacks these days can be quite good. And BT codecs are still lossy.
> 
> Fiio should include a usb-c to usb-c cable in the box.



Yes, of course BT is lossy.  For casual listening (not critical listening), can you tell the difference between wired or LDAC?  I can’t but that may be just me.  I only use my BTR5 for casual listening, and I appreciate my phone not being tethered to my BTR5.  But that is just me.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

jsmiller58 said:


> Yes, of course BT is lossy?  For casual listening (not critical listening), can you tell the difference between wired or LDAC?  I can’t but that maybe just me.  I only use my BTR5 for casual listening, and I appreciate my phone not being tethered to my BTR5.  But that is just me.


+1
Just for music listening and enjoyment bluetooth is really good these days.
For serious listening there's other equipment.


----------



## HipHopScribe

megabigeye said:


> But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no _inherent_, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended.  The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way.  They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better.  There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."
> 
> Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand.  I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different.  I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.



My understanding is that the signal path for the single-ended output only utilizes one DAC on the BTR5 rather than using both DACs. This might account for any difference in sound quality between the two outputs. I agree that there is no inherent reason the balanced output should sound better, it seems like an intentional design decision might have made the difference here. Apparently the BTR3K uses both DACs for the single-ended output, so I'm curious whether or not it has the same subjective disparity in quality between single-ended and balanced that some have noticed with the BTR5.


----------



## carpler

Looking for a cable usb-c to usb-c to connect the btr5 to my phone, I found this one mentioned in this thread many posts ago:
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=twister_B06XT2FR5Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Someone can tell me if is a good choice?
There is something better (but in this price range, or only little more expensive)?


----------



## iburdeinick

carpler said:


> Looking for a cable usb-c to usb-c to connect the btr5 to my phone, I found this one mentioned in this thread many posts ago:
> https://www.amazon.it/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=twister_B06XT2FR5Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> Someone can tell me if is a good choice?
> There is something better (but in this price range, or only little more expensive)?



Hello,

I have the same cable and it is a good choice. Amazon cables are great quality in my opinion.

Best


----------



## IEManiac

Chris Kaoss said:


> Maybe the Kirin Chipset of the 8 Pro doesn't support any higher codec, i guess.


The Kirin 980 in my Huawei Mate 20 X supports LDAC, etc.


----------



## IEManiac (May 1, 2020)

szore said:


> Balance and unbalanced do not sound the same. Balanced output is cleaner and the stereo separation is more defined giving a better defined soundstage and image placement. Also many people (myself included) only have 2.5 cable terminations. Balanced output also tends to have more power output (not sure why this is the case). This is good for me when I am using my CL2 planar, which tend to love higher voltage. Sometimes 3.5 out may be preferred; it can give music a warmer, bigger, more generous sound over balanced, after all this is music not surgery!


Technically 'balanced' has a 6dB noise advantage over single-ended, but whether you can hear it is questionable since these devices, even in single ended mode, are very quiet already, certainly below the threshold of human perception. Balanced will also have double the output resistance (not good, lower is better). Again, Crosstalk (the technical term for stereo channel separation) is also very low in single ended mode, lower than the threshold of human perception. So, all the|your claims about the superiority of balanced need to be taken with a sack of salt.


----------



## szore

IEManiac said:


> Technically 'balanced' has a 6dB noise advantage over single-ended, but whether you can hear it is questionable since these devices, even in single ended mode, are very quiet already, certainly below the threshold of human perception. Balanced with also have double the output resistance (not good, lower is better). Again, Crosstalk (the technical term for stereo separation) is also very low in single ended mode, lower than the threshold of human perception. So, all the|your claims about the superiority of balanced need to be taken with a sack of salt.


No, you are right, Not superior, but different. That's what I meant when I said 3.5 has its own sound that is more musical


----------



## hmscott (Apr 30, 2020)

HipHopScribe said:


> My understanding is that the signal path for the single-ended output only utilizes one DAC on the BTR5 rather than using both DACs. This might account for any difference in sound quality between the two outputs. I agree that there is no inherent reason the balanced output should sound better, it seems like an intentional design decision might have made the difference here. *Apparently the BTR3K uses both DACs for the single-ended output*, so I'm curious whether or not it has the same subjective disparity in quality between single-ended and balanced that some have noticed with the BTR5.


AFAIK, it's actually the BTR5 unbalanced / SE 3.5mm output that's using 1 DAC / AMP and the BTR5 Balanced 2.5mm output that's using 2 DAC/AMP's, 1 independent DAC / AMP per side.

That's why the balanced output of the BTR5 is about 10 volume setting steps "hotter" than the SE output, at least I need to turn down the volume 10 steps to match the loudness when moving from BTR5 unbalanced 3.5mm to balanced output 2.5mm.

The BTR3k does it a bit differently and so the BTR3 unbalanced SE 3.5mm output is closer to the same output as the BTR3k Balanced 2.5mm output, but the BTR3k is still "hotter" out the balanced output.  At least my SendyAudio Aiva's can max out the volume setting on the BTR3k unbalanced SE 3.5mm output but I can't do that same trick when connected to the 2.5mm balanced output, the BTR3k gets too loud near max volume and I have to back off more than a few steps from maximum volume setting.

Yes, the BTR3k 2.5mm can also drive higher power demanding full over the head / over the ear headphones.  But, the BTR5 2.5mm sounds much better to me than the BTR3k when loaded down with the SendyAudio Aiva's power demands.


carpler said:


> Looking for a cable usb-c to usb-c to connect the btr5 to my phone, I found this one mentioned in this thread many posts ago:
> https://www.amazon.it/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=twister_B06XT2FR5Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> Someone can tell me if is a good choice?
> There is something better (but in this price range, or only little more expensive)?


I'm using 2 different data cables, one short one for Samsung S20 Ultra (was Note 10+) to BTR5 / BTR3k, and one long one for PC to BTR5/BTR3k:

*DD TC05 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6 10 cm*
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJZBYVH

*Anker 6' PowerLine+ USB-C to USB-A Cable - Red*
https://www.target.com/p/anker-6-39-powerline-usb-c-to-usb-a-cable-red/-/A-76625655
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Powerline-Durability-Samsung-MacBook/dp/B01LNAAEJ2

Note that the TC05 short cable is "directional", only passes data in one direction, so make sure you have the arrows pointing OUT the source and INTO the BTR5 / BTR3k.  I first hooked it up backwards and thought the cable was dead, then I noticed the arrows.


----------



## IEManiac

szore said:


> No, you are right, Not superior, but different. That's what I meant when I said 3.5 has its own sound that is more musical


We can safely conclude that we are at best in no-effective-difference or, at worst, hair-splitting territory.


----------



## lucasd

First of all, I find it slightly funny that somebody that have no idea about electronics or DSP complaints about settings.

So I give here very brief intro:
lowpass filter - filter designed to filter out digital conversion artefacts, in case of science and measurements Sharp roll-off is best. However, it may have the highest possible pre-ringing artefacts. Any other is some kind of compromise and is a matter of debate, the default on fiio was said to give most pleasing sound (fast apo 1).
In either case the difference is small and will be heard mostly on badly mastered tracks or some square waves.
In additions, somebody said that those filter are not measurable on BTR5, so whether there is some error in implementation or simply effect is negligible they are simply there. I would say use sharp filter or default one.

Balanced output- technically in powerful amp there would be very small difference, excluding crosstalk & noise/ THD (which are already here very good on unbalanced).
However, balanced output has much higher  power output 240mW vs 80mW. So higher volume is possible, but also higher temporary power output is possible, which would improve dynamics. Please consider that good desktop headphone dac will have power of over 1000mW (e.g. Magni has 2.4W). 
Easiest analogy is two cars both with the same max speed, but one accelerate like tesla other other diesel SUV


----------



## megabigeye

lucasd said:


> First of all, I find it slightly funny that somebody that have no idea about electronics or DSP complaints about settings.
> 
> So I give here very brief intro:
> lowpass filter - filter designed to filter out digital conversion artefacts, in case of science and measurements Sharp roll-off is best. However, it may have the highest possible pre-ringing artefacts. Any other is some kind of compromise and is a matter of debate, the default on fiio was said to give most pleasing sound (fast apo 1).
> ...


Is this comment directed at me? If so, I think you're missing the nature of my complaints, which were largely philosophical in nature.  I'm more interested in _why_ the balanced connection and DSP filters are included, rather than _how_ they work technically. Not that the technical part isn't interesting, but, as you point out, I don't have the technical proficiency to hold a meaningful conversation about it.


----------



## Tristy

Received the BTR5 today and quite honestly, a £90 DAC has no business sounding this good  listening via balanced and wired DAC mode mostly (wireless also sounds very good) but it’s really got me excited for where the industry is going if FiiO is making something that sounds this good for this price. Well done FIIO! I’m a believer.


----------



## d73b3e

This is my first "amp" and I did purchase a 2.5mm tripowin to pair with FH1s. Amazingly, I have heard more "artifacts" than before. Now that to me, the "original" intent of the musicians is actually more hiss, more noise, more pops/clicks/crackles lol (I did verify those with another "amp-less" setup and hear the same if I turn up the volume to a discomfort level).
My first impression: this dongle is more suitable to a pair of cans than IEMs


----------



## jsmiller58

d73b3e said:


> This is my first "amp" and I did purchase a 2.5mm tripowin to pair with FH1s. Amazingly, I have heard more "artifacts" than before. Now that to me, the "original" intent of the musicians is actually more hiss, more noise, more pops/clicks/crackles lol (I did verify those with another "amp-less" setup and hear the same if I turn up the volume to a discomfort level).
> My first impression: this dongle is more suitable to a pair of cans than IEMs


Possibly, but I have many IEMs, some very sensitive, and don‘t hear any hiss on the BTR5’s 2.5mm or 3.5mm outputs.  On the other hand I have an R6 Pro DAP and that hisses like a bag of snakes with very sensitive IEMs.


----------



## carpler

Sorry if I come back to a question I have already asked ...
Looking for good headphones "portable" and with balanced cable I found the V-Monk Lite, but with a balanced 2.5 plug only the 120 ohm version remained.
Does BTR5 manage them well? Do you consider it a valid option?
I own both the V-Monk Lite and the Plus (with 3.5SE plug), but I prefer the sound of the Plus.
Also for this reason I am doubtful whether to proceed with the purchase or not.
The fact is that I currently have no alternatives for balanced (not IEM) ...


----------



## d73b3e

jsmiller58 said:


> Possibly, but I have many IEMs, some very sensitive, and don‘t hear any hiss on the BTR5’s 2.5mm or 3.5mm outputs.  On the other hand I have an R6 Pro DAP and that hisses like a bag of snakes with very sensitive IEMs.


What volume settings are you using? My ZS10 Pro hisses badly at 40 via bluetooth/2.5mm.


----------



## jsmiller58

d73b3e said:


> What volume settings are you using? My ZS10 Pro hisses badly at 40 via bluetooth/2.5mm.


I will have to check in a bit, but volume set at 40?  Wow, I think the loudest I listen is around 24...  I will crank up the volume without playing music to hear where hiss kicks in...


----------



## 515164

hmscott said:


> DD TC05 Type C to Type C *Audio Data Decoding* Cable



What does "Audio Data Decoding" even mean?  It's just a type C to type C cable, probably with OTG support (OTG needs a certain pin shorted to ground in order to activate the function on a device, like an Android one).


----------



## d73b3e

jsmiller58 said:


> I will have to check in a bit, but volume set at 40?  Wow, I think the loudest I listen is around 24...  I will crank up the volume without playing music to hear where hiss kicks in...


Does that mean I'm way too loud? lol


----------



## d73b3e

morgenstern09 said:


> What does "Audio Data Decoding" even mean?  It's just a type C to type C cable, probably with OTG support (OTG needs a certain pin shorted to ground in order to activate the function on a device, like an Android one).


It's just a name of the cable lol, to differentiate with other products that may attract audio-ist buyers =))


----------



## ClieOS

d73b3e said:


> What volume settings are you using? My ZS10 Pro hisses badly at 40 via bluetooth/2.5mm.



KZ ZS10 Pro is 24ohm / 111dB, it shouldn't require 40 in volume. Even at low gain on BTR5, I'll expect volume to be on the 20~30 range for normal listening loudness. To set it on 40 is pretty much a quick way to go deaf. The only possible explanation is that you lower the volume on your smartphone very low to begin with and set the BTR5 volume high to compensate - which will explain the distortion as smartphone volume is pure digital. When set to too low, digital volume will eat into the bit depth of the music and basically cause distortion as part of the music is eroded away by the digital volume. The correct practice is to set the smartphone value to be very high / max, then adjust the volume on BTR5.


----------



## CL14715

jsmiller58 said:


> Possibly, but I have many IEMs, some very sensitive, and don‘t hear any hiss on the BTR5’s 2.5mm or 3.5mm outputs.  On the other hand I have an R6 Pro DAP and that hisses like a bag of snakes with very sensitive IEMs.


I hear hiss on sensitive IEM's on 3.5 but not 2.5 with mine. Could be unit variation.


----------



## CL14715

ClieOS said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro is 24ohm / 111dB, it shouldn't require 40 in volume. Even at low gain on BTR5, I'll expect volume to be on the 20~30 range for normal listening loudness. To set it on 40 is pretty much a quick way to go deaf. The only possible explanation is that you lower the volume on your smartphone very low to begin with and set the BTR5 volume high to compensate - which will explain the distortion as smartphone volume is pure digital. When set to too low, digital volume will eat into the bit depth of the music and basically cause distortion as part of the music is eroded away by the digital volume. The correct practice is to set the smartphone value to be very high / max, then adjust the volume on BTR5.


LMAO!! Holy hell, volume 40?!?! I can't even get that high on low gain with Valkyries and they are 3 ohm / 96 db sens! Please turn that down, for your health.


----------



## IEManiac (May 2, 2020)

d73b3e said:


> What volume settings are you using? My ZS10 Pro hisses badly at 40 via bluetooth/2.5mm.


What kind of ears are you using? On single ended, I would run the ZS10 Pro at 30 volume. You are running them at 40 balanced? I'd be concerned about hearing loss, not hiss.


----------



## hmscott (May 2, 2020)

morgenstern09 said:


> What does "Audio Data Decoding" even mean?  It's just a type C to type C cable, probably with OTG support (OTG needs a certain pin shorted to ground in order to activate the function on a device, like an Android one).


New to China tech English terminology? It's expressive and illuminating, and you can learn descriptive phrases and wording unknown till translations brought them to life. 

DD is a well known company in China and they make some of FiiO's accessories, but also sell them on their own.  Here's that DD TC05 cable in their store on Aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32961312907.html




Arrives? It's true, yet odd, if you can meld your mind to the wording, it starts making perfect sense.

There are lots of other cables and other accessories in the DD Official AliExpress store...

As a wise Gardner once posted, Do Not Disturb...Tiny Grass is Dreaming...


----------



## 515164

hmscott said:


> New to China tech English terminology? It's expressive and illuminating, and you can learn descriptive phrases and wording unknown till translations brought them to life.
> 
> DD is a well known company in china and they make some of FiiO's accessories, but also sell them on their own.  Here's that DD TC05 cable in their store on Aliexpress:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32961312907.html
> ...



They mention USB-C DACs that can make up the loss of the 3.5 mm jack, but this product is not that.  

Well, what can you do except complain? Not complain and let it go I guess, it's like fighting with the windmills


----------



## hmscott (May 6, 2020)

d73b3e said:


> What volume settings are you using? My ZS10 Pro hisses badly at 40 via bluetooth/2.5mm.


As mentioned, the most important setting to reduce hiss / noise - increase the signal to noise ratio - is to set the source volume to drive 100%, and use the FiiO BTR5 volume controls to set the desired audio level in your earphones.

For my KZ IEM's, KZ ZSX / ZSN Pro on L Gain on 3.5mm I am using them in the mid 20's, and on H gain (not needed really) somewhere between 16 to 22.

40 is going to be boosting signal background noise, and there's the danger of blowing out your ears when you set the source to 100% output - please make sure that you turn the BTR5 volume down to 20 or under before setting the source to 100% - and I'd also first set the Gain to L as well.

Please let us know how that works for getting rid of the "hiss"


----------



## hmscott

morgenstern09 said:


> They mention USB-C DACs that can make up the loss of the 3.5 mm jack, but this product is not that.
> 
> Well, what can you do except complain? Not complain and let it go I guess, it's like fighting with the windmills


It's actually fun for me to figure out what they are really trying to say - usually it's quite profound - as long as you can get past the words, phrases, grammar, and often spelling.

It must be frustrating for the writers to be held back from expressing what they really know and are trying to convey through the veil of English.


----------



## jsmiller58

ClieOS said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro is 24ohm / 111dB, it shouldn't require 40 in volume. Even at low gain on BTR5, I'll expect volume to be on the 20~30 range for normal listening loudness. To set it on 40 is pretty much a quick way to go deaf. The only possible explanation is that you lower the volume on your smartphone very low to begin with and set the BTR5 volume high to compensate - which will explain the distortion as smartphone volume is pure digital. When set to too low, digital volume will eat into the bit depth of the music and basically cause distortion as part of the music is eroded away by the digital volume. The correct practice is to set the smartphone value to be very high / max, then adjust the volume on BTR5.


Excellent advice.  I think many people are unaware of this.

40 is a crazy high volume setting for the BTR5 unless the source volume is set way down.


----------



## d73b3e

ClieOS said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro is 24ohm / 111dB, it shouldn't require 40 in volume. Even at low gain on BTR5, I'll expect volume to be on the 20~30 range for normal listening loudness. To set it on 40 is pretty much a quick way to go deaf. The only possible explanation is that you lower the volume on your smartphone very low to begin with and set the BTR5 volume high to compensate - which will explain the distortion as smartphone volume is pure digital. When set to too low, digital volume will eat into the bit depth of the music and basically cause distortion as part of the music is eroded away by the digital volume. The correct practice is to set the smartphone value to be very high / max, then adjust the volume on BTR5.


Thanks for pointing this out for me. I'm new to this and have no idea on how the entire setup controls the volume. I actually set my host device volume to a comfortable level. That is, I still can hear my surround. Now I change the settings so the unit is on 25 and crank up the mobile/laptop volume and definitely hear no excessive hiss (take Sunflower Sunset by Pim Miles, at the start of the track there is huge amount of hisses).


----------



## 515164

d73b3e said:


> Thanks for pointing this out for me. I'm new to this and have no idea on how the entire setup controls the volume. I actually set my host device volume to a comfortable level. That is, I still can hear my surround. Now I change the settings so the unit is on 25 and crank up the mobile/laptop volume and definitely hear no excessive hiss (take Sunflower Sunset by Pim Miles, at the start of the track there is huge amount of hisses).



Setting it to low gain should further reduce any hiss at higher volume levels.


----------



## d73b3e

CL14715 said:


> I hear hiss on sensitive IEM's on 3.5 but not 2.5 with mine. Could be unit variation.


I've changed my setup settings to be the same as hmscott's post below.



hmscott said:


> Please let us know how that works for getting rid of the "hiss"


Yes, it works perfectly  



CL14715 said:


> LMAO!! Holy hell, volume 40?!?! I can't even get that high on low gain with Valkyries and they are 3 ohm / 96 db sens! Please turn that down, for your health.



Thanks for voicing that out loud  Before getting an "amp" my only way of volume control is on the phone/laptop and so it's a habit. Now that's been changed.



IEManiac said:


> What kind of ears are you using? On single ended, I would run the ZS10 Pro at 30 volume. You are running them at 40 balanced? I'd be concerned about hearing loss, not hiss.





jsmiller58 said:


> Excellent advice.  I think many people are unaware of this.
> 
> 40 is a crazy high volume setting for the BTR5 unless the source volume is set way down.


I set low volume on the phone/laptop 
"Excellent advice," indeed. I learnt new things today 



hmscott said:


> New to China tech English terminology?


To me, it's a new market niche and they name their product for more sales.



morgenstern09 said:


> Well, what can you do except complain? Not complain and let it go I guess, it's like fighting with the windmills


My complain to Chi-fi manufacturers, and @FiiO please take my words, stop using "Parameters" for "Technical specifications," and stop using "Specifications" for "Product Dimensions."


----------



## d73b3e (May 2, 2020)

morgenstern09 said:


> They mention USB-C DACs that can make up the loss of the 3.5 mm jack, but this product is not that.
> 
> Well, what can you do except complain? Not complain and let it go I guess, it's like fighting with the windmills


One more thing I'd like to add, in my opinion the data from the smartphone to the dac/amp (BTR5 in this case) is digital data. The protocol (Audio USB1/2) must somehow validates the data for its consistency before the DAC/AMP do their jobs. So what you'll need is a decent cable in term of build quality and convenient not a cable specifically designed for audiophiles. It's like snake oil to me with that scheme


----------



## IEManiac

d73b3e said:


> One more thing I'd like to add, in my opinion the data from the smartphone to the dac/amp (BTR5 in this case) is digital data. The protocol (Audio USB1/2) must somehow validates the data for its consistency before the DAC/AMP do their jobs. So what you'll need is a decent cable in term of build quality and convenient.


Data sent to a DAC is digital? You don't say...


----------



## d73b3e (May 2, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> Data sent to a DAC is digital? You don't say...


I mean the device, not the chip  and yes a DAC takes digital data and makes it to our ears. My point is that a generic cable is enough.


----------



## Knightsfan11

Anyone managed to find a good short mmcx cable to use with this?


----------



## d73b3e

Knightsfan11 said:


> Anyone managed to find a good short mmcx cable to use with this?


I bought this https://store.hiby.com/products/3-5mm-short-cable, mine is 2pin so I don't know how is the mmcx connector on it. Shipping takes a month T__T


----------



## Knightsfan11

Sorry, I'm sure it's been discussed - Any sound quality difference between the BTR3 & BTR5? Looking at this primarily for a cycling setup.


----------



## Rudivanb

Knightsfan11 said:


> Sorry, I'm sure it's been discussed - Any sound quality difference between the BTR3 & BTR5? Looking at this primarily for a cycling setup.



Yes, to my ears the BTR-5 sound much better than the BTR-3, also outdoors with BT. I agree with his findings in: https://headfonics.com/2020/03/fiio-btr5-review/


----------



## quimbo

Knightsfan11 said:


> Anyone managed to find a good short mmcx cable to use with this?



I had a custom made one from plussound - http://www.plussoundaudio.com - arriving tomorrow.  You need to communicate via email that you want a shorter one, place your order, pay the full amount and then a refund is issued almost right away  It's not a large saving, i went from 48 inches to 30 and received 25.00 om a setup costing 149.99


----------



## IEManiac

I have to say that LDAC connectivity using adaptive bit rate is very good. I put my phone under the saddle of my scooter, closed and sat on the saddle and drove around without for about 20 minutes without a single glitch or dropout.


----------



## hmscott (May 7, 2020)

Knightsfan11 said:


> Sorry, I'm sure it's been discussed - Any sound quality difference between the BTR3 & BTR5? Looking at this primarily for a cycling setup.


When bouncing around on a road / track bicycle I don't think I'd be able to discern the audio quality differences between the BTR3k / BTR5...and I'd want to use the BTR3k if I couldn't allow myself the distraction of looking at the BTR5 OLED screen while I'm involved in some activity.

FiiO released the smaller and less expensive BTR3k with sound rivaling the BTR5 - IMHO - when stationary and in a quiet environment.  Bicycling I don't think I'd notice any difference in the audio quality.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-balanced-high-fidelity-bluetooth-amp.928317/

The BTR3k is $69 and the BTR5 is over $109.99 (MSRP) due to supply problems when it was released (Covid-19) - I've seen the BTR5 going for $129-139 recently.

For Cycling - or any other activity where I would want to adjust the volume without looking at the BTR3k / BTR5 - the BTR3k would be the one I would want to use.  The BTR5 has a nice OLED screen that shows volume and settings, which I would want to ignore while cycling.

If the BTR5 goes out of "volume control" mode and into "settings control" mode I'd need to glimpse at the BTR5 OLED screen long enough to make sure I held the On/Off/Control button in long enough to switch out of settings mode - and not hold in the On/Off/Control button so long that I turned off the BTR5.

I could change the BTR5's Control actuation method to 2 pushes of the On/Off switch, but I'd often be "1-off" in my clicking and still be in Settings mode - and then the Up/Down switches for volume would be messing with some random setting instead of changing the volume.

I find I need to look at the BTR5 more often than the BTR3k, even when sitting still.  All of the above have happened while using the BTR5 in a stationary position where I am free to look at the BTR5 OLED screen, but try to operate it without looking down at the screen.


----------



## funkdoobi

Anyone recommend a better clip/case or something for attaching to a shirt collar? The clip holster that came with it kinda sucks.


----------



## MrRegan

I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to audio but have been looking for a dac for my galaxy S8 plus. I was about to purchase the audioquest red/cobalt but have been reading up on this thread. At the minute I have a pair a fidelio X2 a pair of sennheiser hd25 and tin audio t2.. 

Anyone got any experience between the audioquest dragonfly's and the Brt5. I know the dragonfly doesn't have a battery or Bluetooth but is the dac quality of the brt5 on par with the dragonfly's. I could stretch to the chord mojo if its a worthy upgrade on them both. 

I'm just starting to dip my toes so any help would be appreciated.. 

Thanks Steve.


----------



## IEManiac

MrRegan said:


> I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to audio but have been looking for a dac for my galaxy S8 plus. I was about to purchase the audioquest red/cobalt but have been reading up on this thread. At the minute I have a pair a fidelio X2 a pair of sennheiser hd25 and tin audio t2..
> 
> Anyone got any experience between the audioquest dragonfly's and the Brt5. I know the dragonfly doesn't have a battery or Bluetooth but is the dac quality of the brt5 on par with the dragonfly's. I could stretch to the chord mojo if its a worthy upgrade on them both.
> 
> ...


Dragonfly is over-hyped and represents poor value. Search for tests of them based on bench tests. Dragonfly also does not offer volume control.


----------



## Ynot1

Speaking of quality digital cables as snake oil, what about quality oscillators for better ocillating accuracy to reduce jitters and what not. Here is an analogy from back in the day. Sony produced the cd player with optical pickup. Then people used cd players in the car and found bumps and bruises with skipping all over the place. And then the makers solved the problem with buffers and error correction. You'd think by now electronics world can learn something to fix things cost effectively using software.


----------



## big45-70

IEManiac said:


> Dragonfly is over-hyped and represents poor value. Search for tests of them based on bench tests. Dragonfly also does not offer volume control.



 I have both a dragonfly black and btr5.  The DFB works great as a dac/amp for a laptop on the go and offers enough power and good sound for the price.  Comparing the two the BTR5 can play dsd files and has slightly less power then the DFB.  

They are both a different use case IMO.  I used the BTR5 as a Bluetooth device and the DFB as a USB dac/amp.  They both sound great and if I had to pick one to use exclusively USB I’d go with the DFB only because it has more power.  If I have one device that is a “catch all” I’d go with the BTR5 as it is immensely more convenient to use with a phone.


----------



## Sam L

Showing out of stock in the US until June 2. I can get the es100 delivered in 2 days. Which to get?


----------



## HiFlight

I have a brand new leather case for the BTR5 that I have no use for.   If you are in the US, drop me a PM if you need one.


----------



## megabigeye

I have a few questions:
In the FiiO Control app (on my Samsung S9, if that matters), I have the "Idle poweroff" time set to 3 minutes, however the BTR5 never seems to power off unless I do it manually. Does this happen to anybody else? Is there any sort of work around or fix?
It hasn't been a problem yet, but I'm imagining the day I accidentally leave it on for a week and completely kill the battery.

Also, I'm currently using this as a "standalone" DAC feeding another amp, the volume is a little low, but otherwise it sounds pretty good!


----------



## Ynot1

It seems if you use LDAC you have to go with ES100. But if you want strong build and a case then there are no other choice better than the BTR5.


----------



## jeejack

Those with a low volume give a restart. Hold down the volume + and - at the same time until It restart. Before restarting i listen with the volume at 35 in high gain. Now I keep the volume at 25-30 in low gain


----------



## waynes world

Ynot1 said:


> It seems if you use LDAC you have to go with ES100. But if you want strong build and a case then there are no other choice better than the BTR5.


 
Why not the BTR5 for LDAC? (apart from not being able to EQ LDAC with the BTR5, which you might be able to do some day, or which people may not care about).


----------



## Chris Kaoss

megabigeye said:


> I have a few questions:
> In the FiiO Control app (on my Samsung S9, if that matters), I have the "Idle poweroff" time set to 3 minutes, however the BTR5 never seems to power off unless I do it manually. Does this happen to anybody else? Is there any sort of work around or fix?
> It hasn't been a problem yet, but I'm imagining the day I accidentally leave it on for a week and completely kill the battery.
> 
> Also, I'm currently using this as a "standalone" DAC feeding another amp, the volume is a little low, but otherwise it sounds pretty good!


As long as bluetooth is connected to the Btr5 it never turn off. It doesn't matter what you've set it to.
Weird problem with.
After turning of bluetooth on the smartphone and the Btr5 is losing the connection it'll turn off after the time you've set.


----------



## PTDennis

Just a suggestion about how to connect the BTR5 with an iPhone wired, without spending a lot of money. I bought this OTG USB to Lightning adapter. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000424033369.html Then, connected the BTR5 using a USB A to USB C cable. I am listening to Tidal with my iPhone wired and getting the musics in the best quality ("Master" quality instead of using the AAC protocol). Hope this helps!


----------



## FiiO

megabigeye said:


> I have a few questions:
> In the FiiO Control app (on my Samsung S9, if that matters), I have the "Idle poweroff" time set to 3 minutes, however the BTR5 never seems to power off unless I do it manually. Does this happen to anybody else? Is there any sort of work around or fix?
> It hasn't been a problem yet, but I'm imagining the day I accidentally leave it on for a week and completely kill the battery.
> 
> Also, I'm currently using this as a "standalone" DAC feeding another amp, the volume is a little low, but otherwise it sounds pretty good!


Hi,

Have you disconnect the BTR5 from the mobile phone at that time? What's the firmware version of your BTR5?

Best regards


----------



## megabigeye

FiiO said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have you disconnect the BTR5 from the mobile phone at that time? What's the firmware version of your BTR5?
> 
> Best regards


Thank you for the reply!

Do you mean, did I manually disconnect my phone's Bluetooth? No, I didn't do that.

Is firmware the same as "version" on the BTR5? I'm on version 1.0.6, which I think is the latest?


----------



## ClieOS (May 8, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> Thank you for the reply!
> 
> Do you mean, did I manually disconnect my phone's Bluetooth? No, I didn't do that.
> 
> Is firmware the same as "version" on the BTR5? I'm on version 1.0.6, which I think is the latest?



Yes, it is the latest. What you have experienced with the 'idle power off' setting is normal.

Don't forget BTR5 is a BT adapter as much as it is a DAC/amp, so people do use it to receive call as well as listening to music, so it is perfectly normal for it to 'stay up' even when there is no sound playing but as long as there is still an active BT connection between BTR5 and its BT host. That way, those who use BTR5 as mainly a BT headset will not miss a call. The idle power setting is for BTR5 to preserve battery life when it loses all connection with its host after a certain amount of time.

So in the case of you accidentally leave it at a place, as soon as your smartphone / BT  host is out of range, idle power off will kick in and shut it down after the time you set.


----------



## megabigeye

ClieOS said:


> Yes, it is the latest. What you have experienced with the 'idle power off' setting is normal.
> 
> Don't forget BTR5 is a BT adapter as much as it is a DAC/amp, so people do use it to receive call as well as listening to music, so it is perfectly normal for it to 'stay up' even when there is no sound playing but as long as there is still an active BT connection between BTR5 and its BT host. That way, those who use BTR5 as mainly a BT headset will not miss a call. The idle power setting is for BTR5 to preserve battery life when it loses all connection with its host after a certain amount of time.
> 
> So in the case of you accidentally leave it at a place, as soon as your smartphone / BT  host is out of range, idle power off will kick in and shut it down after the time you set.


Ah. That makes sense. Thank you!

It'd be nice if there were an option to change that setting, though.


----------



## big45-70

Has anyone tried using the BTR5 built in microphone on your pc as a gaming mic?  Is it even possible?


----------



## RH64

Hi All,

I just got the BTR5 and am having a problem with battery life.  The battery is only lasting 2-3 hours.  I have not connected to the Fiio Control App so am just using the default settings.  I am feeding my receiver so it is connecting via bluetooth to my computer.  I am then using the 2.5mm output at max volume (60).

Does this battery life seem right?  For reference, I also have an ES100 and that lasts at least 3 times as long on the same configuration.

I do really like the Fiio sound quality and build quality.  I'm sure I'll get this sorted out.

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## Devodonaldson

RH64 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just got the BTR5 and am having a problem with battery life.  The battery is only lasting 2-3 hours.  I have not connected to the Fiio Control App so am just using the default settings.  I am feeding my receiver so it is connecting via bluetooth to my computer.  I am then using the 2.5mm output at max volume (60).
> 
> ...


Balanced = highest power output, max volume = highest power output, so 3 hours actually doesn't surprise me in that case. You're fully taxing the BTR5 battery in that manner


----------



## HiFlight

HiFlight said:


> I have a brand new leather case for the BTR5 that I have no use for.   If you are in the US, drop me a PM if you need one.


The case has sold!


----------



## RH64

Got it.  Maybe my battery expectations were too high.

Does anyone know where I can get a very short (0.5m) 2.5mm mmcx cable to use with this?  I saw a 3.5mm listed a couple pages back, but would like to use the balanced output.  Ideally, I'd like to stay around $20.


----------



## ClieOS

RH64 said:


> I just got the BTR5 and am having a problem with battery life.  The battery is only lasting 2-3 hours.  I have not connected to the Fiio Control App so am just using the default settings.  I am feeding my receiver so it is connecting via bluetooth to my computer.  I am then using the 2.5mm output at max volume (60).



2~3 hours seems a little short to me. Which receiver are we talking here? Though at max volume, double amping should not draw a lot of current from BTR5 because the very high input impedance of the receiver, which in itself will preserve some battery life.


----------



## big45-70

Do we know what exactly the DAC Clock Divider does,  and how it changes sound?


----------



## RH64

It is a pioneer SC-55.


----------



## ClieOS (May 9, 2020)

big45-70 said:


> Do we know what exactly the DAC Clock Divider does,  and how it changes sound?



The are probably oversampling setting.



RH64 said:


> It is a pioneer SC-55.



A quick check reveals it doesn't have any real balanced input - if You are using a set of RCA cable (with balanced 2.5mm plug on the other end) to connect the BTR5 to your Pionner, it is very likely that you are short-circuiting the BTR5 left and right negative channel, causing a lot of current leakage, as it is common that RCA input, while looks separated as two inputs for left and right channels, are actually internally wired together on the ground. This will explain why you are not getting the battery life you should - also, this is inherently bad for BTR5's internal circuit even though it has protection circuit to prevent a burn-out.


----------



## RH64

ClieOS said:


> The are probably oversampling setting.
> 
> 
> 
> A quick check reveals it doesn't have any real balanced input - if You are using a set of RCA cable (with balanced 2.5mm plug on the other end) to connect the BTR5 to your Pionner, it is very likely that you are short-circuiting the BTR5 left and right negative channel, causing a lot of current leakage, as it is common that RCA input, while looks separated as two inputs for left and right channels, are actually internally wired together on the ground. This will explain why you are not getting the battery life you should - also, this is inherently bad for BTR5's internal circuit even though it has protection circuit to prevent a burn-out.



Wow...thanks!  So instead of using the 2.5mm cable, should I use a 3.5mm?  I just assumed using the 2.5 would be better!


----------



## archy121

PTDennis said:


> Just a suggestion about how to connect the BTR5 with an iPhone wired, without spending a lot of money. I bought this OTG USB to Lightning adapter. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000424033369.html Then, connected the BTR5 using a USB A to USB C cable. I am listening to Tidal with my iPhone wired and getting the musics in the best quality ("Master" quality instead of using the AAC protocol). Hope this helps!



This is really interesting.
Can you please confirm the highest bitrate MQA unfolding you can achieve ? 

Hoping it’s at least 192/24


----------



## ClieOS

RH64 said:


> Wow...thanks!  So instead of using the 2.5mm cable, should I use a 3.5mm?  I just assumed using the 2.5 would be better!



Better only if you used it correctly. Used incorrectly, it is at best worsening the SQ, at worst destroying the device all together.
Balanced output should only be able to either connect to balanced input or balanced headphone. You should keep it to BTR5's 3.5mm for the Pioneer from now on.


----------



## ClieOS

archy121 said:


> This is really interesting.
> Can you please confirm the highest bitrate MQA unfolding you can achieve ?
> 
> Hoping it’s at least 192/24



BTR5 isn't MQA certified. It is Tidal that does the 1st unfolding.


----------



## d73b3e

Sam L said:


> Showing out of stock in the US until June 2. I can get the es100 delivered in 2 days. Which to get?


Well that sucks. I remember placing a backorder for $140 then discovered amz official FiiO store for just $110 lol
There are some alternatives options, for me I would look at FiiO M5 and/or Shanling UP4


RH64 said:


> Got it.  Maybe my battery expectations were too high.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a very short (0.5m) 2.5mm mmcx cable to use with this?  I saw a 3.5mm listed a couple pages back, but would like to use the balanced output.  Ideally, I'd like to stay around $20.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32944462016.html (but it's well beyond $20). FiiO released a 45cm 2.5mm 0.78mm (not mmcx, sorry) but it stays in the budget https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001018438290.html. If I saw this earlier, I didn't have to spend another $20 on the Hiby cable lol


----------



## PTDennis (May 10, 2020)

archy121 said:


> This is really interesting.
> Can you please confirm the highest bitrate MQA unfolding you can achieve ?
> 
> Hoping it’s at least 192/24


So, when listening to MQA audio (using the iPhone adapter), BTR5 screen shows 96k. This is Tidal best resolution: 96kHz/24bits.


----------



## RH64

d73b3e,

Thanks for finding those cables!  The $20 was just a wish.  It looks like your first cable example is exactly what I was looking for.  I really appreciate you finding that for me.  I usually think I'm pretty good with the Google, but that escaped me!

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## RH64

Thanks ClieOS,

Just to give an update, I switched to a 3.5mm to RCA cable and have been playing music for 2 hours and the battery gauge is still showing close to full.  Also, the device was getting warm before and it is cool to the touch.  I have the volume at 60 still.

I will probably test the balanced output again buy connecting headphones with a balanced cable and playing with the volume at 60 (I won't wear them for this test!).

Just a question, the headphones originally came with a 3.5mm cable.  In this case, is it ok to just swap the cable to a 2.5mm headphone cable?  OR like the RCA inouts, do headphones themselves need to be made for a balanced connection?

Appreciate all of your education here!

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## HipHopScribe

RH64 said:


> Thanks ClieOS,
> 
> Just to give an update, I switched to a 3.5mm to RCA cable and have been playing music for 2 hours and the battery gauge is still showing close to full.  Also, the device was getting warm before and it is cool to the touch.  I have the volume at 60 still.
> 
> ...



What kind of headphones? Generally speaking, if your headphones have dual inputs (one for each cup), you're good to use them balanced. If your headphones only have a single input, generally you can't use them balanced without modification. I say generally, because there are rare exceptions to both scenarios.


----------



## Marco Angel

Hi everyone, I've been gone from this post like for 5 months, now I'm wondering if the lack of EQ via LDac is gone? Or is still a limitation? Thanks in advanced!


----------



## jsmiller58

Marco Angel said:


> Hi everyone, I've been gone from this post like for 5 months, now I'm wondering if the lack of EQ via LDac is gone? Or is still a limitation? Thanks in advanced!


Still no support for EQ on the BTR5 when using the LDAC codec.

The es100 supports it, if you must have EQ on LDAC.  Personally I don’t bother, but I might if the es100 had more than just a few customizable presets (I have many IEMs and its inconvenient to constantly tune it).  Nonetheless I don’t miss EQ and am happy with my BTR5.  But that is just me!


----------



## d73b3e

jsmiller58 said:


> ...But that is just me!


Me too. First thing I check to turn off is EQ on player, receiver. Still, I miss the days of 64kbps WMA and QMP + OzoneMP


----------



## RH64

For the headphones I would be using Sennheiser HD600 and Fiio F9.  I think the Fiio even came with a balanced cable option.


----------



## archy121

PTDennis said:


> So, when listening to MQA audio (using the iPhone adapter), BTR5 screen shows 96k. This is Tidal best resolution: 96kHz/24bits.



Than we are not getting full MQA unfolding 
 as I’m guessing the BTR5 does have license. 96/24 is achievable over BT. 
MQA can unfold to 384k


----------



## ClieOS (May 11, 2020)

archy121 said:


> Than we are not getting full MQA unfolding
> as I’m guessing the BTR5 does have license. *96/24 is achievable over BT.*
> MQA can unfold to 384k



Technically correct, but don't forget the signal is transmitted via BT codec (aptx HD, LDAC or LHDC, UAT, etc) and therefore it will go over transcoding - this means whatever the extra bit of MQA info inside the music will be lost before the music is sent over BT, well before it reaches the DAC inside the BT adapter. Unless someone develops a new MQA compatible BT codec, it is impossible to do real MQA over BT.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

szore said:


> Balance and unbalanced do not sound the same. Balanced output is cleaner and the stereo separation is more defined giving a better defined soundstage and image placement. Also many people (myself included) only have 2.5 cable terminations. Balanced output also tends to have more power output (not sure why this is the case). This is good for me when I am using my CL2 planar, which tend to love higher voltage. Sometimes 3.5 out may be preferred; it can give music a warmer, bigger, more generous sound over balanced, after all this is music not surgery!


Agree 100%!  Going from regular to balanced when connecting my Audeze LCD-2's to my HiBy R6 Pro was stunning...  I make a point to connect everything by balanced these days...  ES100 has a 2.5 so I'm good using my Lola's + JH balanced cable.  My iFi xDSD has the 3.5 balanced so i had to buy a converter for my Audeze balanced 4.4 cable and for my JH 2.5.  I also have a 2.5 -> 3.5 balanced converter to connect my JH to the HiBy R6

Kind of a pain getting the adapters and stuff but I'm convinced the sound is superior so it's well worth it


----------



## Luke Skywalker

archy121 said:


> Than we are not getting full MQA unfolding
> as I’m guessing the BTR5 does have license. 96/24 is achievable over BT.
> MQA can unfold to 384k


Hey here is a 24/192 MQA test track if anyone is interested.  I used it to test the full MQA support they just added to the HiBy R6 Pro.  I haven't found anything above 192 yet... https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/1cbce60c-2412-451e-a1e1-39faf87b617b


----------



## Luke Skywalker

jsmiller58 said:


> Possibly, but I have many IEMs, some very sensitive, and don‘t hear any hiss on the BTR5’s 2.5mm or 3.5mm outputs.  On the other hand I have an R6 Pro DAP and that hisses like a bag of snakes with very sensitive IEMs.


That's great to know, thanks.  I'm listening to classical at the moment using my Lola's connected to my R6 balanced and I don't hear any hiss... However I'm planning to buy some nice custom IEM's as soon as I can get impressions made and I wonder if I'll have that issue.  Thinking of Elysium...


----------



## Luke Skywalker

IEManiac said:


> Dragonfly is over-hyped and represents poor value. Search for tests of them based on bench tests. Dragonfly also does not offer volume control.


I have the Dragonfly Red to keep in my car and it's certainly better than no DAC Amp at all, however I dislike that it doesn't have a balanced output and maxes at 24/96.  Another factor is that it sucks the battery dry on my iPhone while I'm listening to music.  I prefer devices that have their own battery, such as the iFi Hip-Dac for that reason


----------



## HipHopScribe

RH64 said:


> For the headphones I would be using Sennheiser HD600 and Fiio F9.  I think the Fiio even came with a balanced cable option.



Both of these are fine to run balanced


----------



## PTDennis

archy121 said:


> Than we are not getting full MQA unfolding
> as I’m guessing the BTR5 does have license. 96/24 is achievable over BT.
> MQA can unfold to 384k


I think that Tidal MQA is only up to 96/24 https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000397069-TIDAL-MASTERS


----------



## mindhead1

Sam L said:


> Showing out of stock in the US until June 2. I can get the es100 delivered in 2 days. Which to get?


ES100 is great. Get it if you need a BT amp now.


----------



## d73b3e

mindhead1 said:


> ES100 is great. Get it if you need a BT amp now.


Speaking of ES100, it has very good audio performance. As pointed out in a comparison with BTR3 done by ES (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16RNUu48icvjbvjCnMzAv0GoU6dI9hotT/view), CSR based solutions may suffer from a design flaw (Tone noise around 18KHz and 20KHz). I don't have the measuring equipment as well as have zero knowledge on measuring these parameters. So I wonder if anyone knows if @FiiO has addressed such design flaw?


----------



## ClieOS

d73b3e said:


> Speaking of ES100, it has very good audio performance. As pointed out in a comparison with BTR3 done by ES (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16RNUu48icvjbvjCnMzAv0GoU6dI9hotT/view), CSR based solutions may suffer from a design flaw (Tone noise around 18KHz and 20KHz). I don't have the measuring equipment as well as have zero knowledge on measuring these parameters. So I wonder if anyone knows if @FiiO has addressed such design flaw?



The tone noise are almost 100dB below the test signal, you are not likely going to pick it up with normal human ears.


----------



## d73b3e

ClieOS said:


> The tone noise are almost 100dB below the test signal, you are not likely going to pick it up with normal human ears.


Thanks!
A follow up question just out of curiosity: Does this kind of noise pertain to the software/DSP logic or the hardware design?


----------



## FiiO




----------



## ClieOS

d73b3e said:


> Thanks!
> A follow up question just out of curiosity: Does this kind of noise pertain to the software/DSP logic or the hardware design?



Consider that Eadsone makes it clears the noise only affects 44.1KHz measurements (48KHz measurements look clean), I'll say it is probably an clocking related issue related to how the inner clock works in CSR chipset. In that case, this will be more of a hardware issue.


----------



## d73b3e

ClieOS said:


> Consider that Eadsone makes it clears the noise only affects 44.1KHz measurements (48KHz measurements look clean), I'll say it is probably an clocking related issue related to how the inner clock works in CSR chipset. In that case, this will be more of a hardware issue.


You enlightened me a lot. Thank you, sir!
Is that also the reason why FiiO stuffed dual crystal oscillators into BTR5?


----------



## mindhead1

FiiO said:


>


Impressive photo shoot. How about a discount code?


----------



## ClieOS

d73b3e said:


> You enlightened me a lot. Thank you, sir!
> Is that also the reason why FiiO stuffed dual crystal oscillators into BTR5?



Could very well be one of the reason, though definitely not the only reason.


----------



## archy121 (May 12, 2020)

PTDennis said:


> I think that Tidal MQA is only up to 96/24 https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000397069-TIDAL-MASTERS



than you haven’t heard anything of what MQA can fully do. I think 96/24 is limit for non MQA certified gear. 

My LG v30 unfolds MQA to 384k depending on original recording of course. I was hoping @FiiO would get inclusion of full MQA unfolding support for BTR5.


----------



## jsmiller58

archy121 said:


> than you haven’t heard anything of what MQA can fully do. I think 96/24 is limit for non MQA certified gear.
> 
> My LG v30 unfolds MQA to 384k depending on original recording of course. I was hoping @FiiO would get inclusion of full MQA unfolding support for BTR5.


I don’t think I recall seeing any promises of MQA support...  at this price probably not realistic?  Do you know of any small dongle DACs that support full MQA unfolding?  Helm Bolt is the only one I know of and that isn’t released yet...


----------



## Marco Angel

@FiiO  Is there any plan on a future btr6? Btr7? With better Bluetooth chip and processing power to deal with ease mqa, ldac eq, etc?


----------



## ClieOS

jsmiller58 said:


> I don’t think I recall seeing any promises of MQA support...  at this price probably not realistic?  Do you know of any small dongle DACs that support full MQA unfolding?  Helm Bolt is the only one I know of and that isn’t released yet...



Audirect HiliDAC atom Pro and Beam 2 both support full MQA unfolding.

I don't think FiiO is gonna try to implement MQA into BTR5, just given it is ultimately positioned as a BT adapter first (which MQA will no work) and therefore there isn't much incentive for FiiO to spend extra money for license (which they have to pay on per unit basic).



Marco Angel said:


> @FiiO  Is there any plan on a future btr6? Btr7? With better Bluetooth chip and processing power to deal with ease mqa, ldac eq, etc?


 
BTR5K is more likely. However, FiiO usually keeps to a 2 years product cycle and given BTR5 was released at later 2019, we probably won't see an updated version by later 2021.

MQA doesn't actually need a new, more powerful BT process, as BTR5 already has an XMOS SoC that is capable of handling MQA. I think the problem is, as I said above, not enough incentive. Also, I said before, MQA is inherently not compatible over Bluetooth transmission because of transcoding. LDAC EQ will more like benefit from a more powerful BT chip, but as far as I know, the ToTL Qualcomm BT chip (QCC5xxx series) doesn't even has a software kit for LDAC yet (*I believe Qudelix is partnering with Sony to bring this happens). Even so, it will like require a custom firmware for EQ to work over LDAC, which isn't going to be easy as software isn't really their strong point.


----------



## FiiO

mindhead1 said:


> Impressive photo shoot. How about a discount code?



The price in our Aliexpress store is now 128.79USD:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html

Best regards


----------



## Kentajalli (May 13, 2020)

*Possible Bug report:*
Perhaps someone could verify this on their equipment and report back.
On my setup (Huawei Mate 20 Pro - BTR5 - qJays IEM), sound volume is noticably higher on USB input, compared to BT specially with DSD material.
So much that, sometimes on USB I can hear distortions.
Using my ears and controls on my Neutron music player I need to reduce the USB output by 50% so that the volume would almost match BT.
anyone else noticed this?


----------



## ClieOS

Kentajalli said:


> *Possible Bug report:*
> Perhaps someone could verify this on their equipment and report back.
> On my setup (Huawei Mate 20 Pro - BTR5 - qJays IEM), sound volume is noticably higher on USB input, compared to BT specially with DSD material.
> So much that, sometimes on USB I can hear distortions.
> ...



Just to check, I assume you max out your smartphone's digital volume on both USB as well as BT and only control the volume using BTR5's volume buttons, or do you use smartphone's digital volume on BT as well?


----------



## Kentajalli

Yes, I disabled the volume control on my phone and Neutron media player (it is the same with any other player also).
Indeed my player goes into direct bit-perfect mode on DSD, if I activate "Native DSD" option (no processing, EQ or even levels).
USB is consistently about 6dB louder than BT.
So far the only remedy for me is to disable "Native DSD" to get controls back and limit USB level to match BT (can be done with my player). 
This also eliminate the occasional overload distortions too.


----------



## ClieOS (May 13, 2020)

Kentajalli said:


> Yes, I disabled the volume control on my phone and Neutron media player (it is the same with any other player also).
> Indeed my player goes into direct bit-perfect mode on DSD, if I activate "Native DSD" option (no processing, EQ or even levels).
> USB is consistently about 6dB louder than BT.
> So far the only remedy for me is to disable "Native DSD" to get controls back and limit USB level to match BT (can be done with my player).
> This also eliminate the occasional overload distortions too.



This might not be an FiiO issue but likely an ESS issue. DSD is technically -6dB in gain when compared to PCM, so normally for most any other DAC, when switching from PCM music to DSD music, you will notice a -6dB volume drop - ESS on the other hand implements an automatic +6dB gain inside many of its DAC chip to compensate for the difference. I am guess this is why you are getting the 6dB boost when you use native DSD output to BTR5, which the DAC chip will, as designed by ESS, automatically apply +6dB gain. BTR5 might get distortion due to that fact that the extra gain is too much for the hardware. In BT mode however, DSD music will always get resampled back to PCM in Neutron first (...and in fact any other app as well, since DSD can't be transmitted over BT), so volume stays consistent regardless of what music you play.


----------



## Kentajalli

Perhaps I was not clear.
everything, DSD , PCM is louder on USB. Regardless of material or player software.
perhaps me mentioning -6dB threw you off on a DSD tangent. understandable . but not the case here.
Fiio s own music player does the same thing, it is just that on Fiio s player one can not limit only usb output levels .


----------



## Kentajalli

The only reason I mentioned DSD was the fact that my level adjustment to USB output would otherwise not be effective , if "native DSD " is enabled. DSD material would go directly to USB at very high levels.
but this is not a DSD related phenomena . this is a USB thingy .
at first I hadn't noticed it, because I was mostly listening to classical music, they are recorded at a bit lower levels generally compared to say Rock music.


----------



## RH64

Thanks Hiphop.

Also, just to give an update, I'm getting great battery life using the 3.5mm.  ClieOS, I think your analysis was correct.  I was running the balanced output into an unblaanced RCA input just because I could get the cable to work.  Thanks for the correction.


----------



## FiiO (May 14, 2020)

Limited Edition Collectible BTR5 Mirror of the Sky Edition is coming and available!!!

Do you like it? Don't hesitate to order it now

Grab one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html


----------



## Kentajalli

*Update to Possible Bug Report:*
Since so far nobody has investigated this issue, I did the following.
I connected the device to my laptop's BT (only SBC - anyone knows how to do hi-res out of win 10?) - I checked the volume, and then connected it through USB and checked again.
There was no level discrepancy I could detect.
By process of elimination, I would say, it is a phone problem - either Android or Huawei or both.
Still would like someone to recheck this using an Android or even on an iPhone.


----------



## psikey

Kentajalli said:


> *Update to Possible Bug Report:*
> Since so far nobody has investigated this issue, I did the following.
> I connected the device to my laptop's BT (only SBC - anyone knows how to do hi-res out of win 10?) - I checked the volume, and then connected it through USB and checked again.
> There was no level discrepancy I could detect.
> ...



No advanced BT audio support in Windows as far as I'm aware with any BT adapter, limitation of Windows. I always use wired via a PC.


----------



## d73b3e

psikey said:


> No advanced BT audio support in Windows as far as I'm aware with any BT adapter, limitation of Windows. I always use wired via a PC.


Windows 10 does support aptx but its connection sucks as hell. Not sure if a dedicated adapter differs from an integrated Intel on my laptop but I heard there is a Jabra Link 370 can cure the crap. MS has the worst Bluetooth stack I've seen.


----------



## hmscott (May 15, 2020)

FiiO said:


> BTR5 is in stock in our Aliexpress store again!!!!
> 
> Grab one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html


@FiiO, I haven't ordered from FiiO on Aliexpress, maybe you have a better shipping arrangement than other vendors I've used?  How long does your free shipping on Aliexpress take to deliver to California for example?

In my experience it takes so long to get things from Aliexpress - unless we opt to pay a huge shipping cost which makes the transaction too costly - can you please stock the BTR5 on Amazon again, that's where I bought my BTR5:
https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR5-384K-Bluetooth5-0-Headphone-Unbalanced/dp/B07ZK3M6XK

Right now it says:
"Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."

While the BTR3k on Amazon says:
https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR3K-Bluetooth-Headphone-Unbalanced/dp/B085XT3V3X

"In stock on May 28, 2020.  Order it now." *<== now missing...*

Shipping with Prime is so much easier and delivery is so much faster than ordering from AliExpress, can you please allocate more units to Amazon?  I'd like to recommend the BTR5 and BTR3k to friends here in the US, but few if any of them will be willing to order from AliEexpress to the US.

Thank you!


----------



## d73b3e

hmscott said:


> @FiiO, I haven't ordered from FiiO on Aliexpress, maybe you have a better shipping arrangement than other vendors I've used?  How long does your free shipping on Aliexpress take to deliver to California for example?
> 
> In my experience it takes so long to get things from Aliexpress - unless we opt to pay a huge shipping cost which makes the transaction too costly - can you please stock the BTR5 on Amazon again, that's where I bought my BTR5:
> https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR5-384K-Bluetooth5-0-Headphone-Unbalanced/dp/B07ZK3M6XK
> ...


They stocked it few weeks ago but it gone too fast and it was only $110 at the time I got mine.


----------



## psikey

d73b3e said:


> Windows 10 does support aptx but its connection sucks as hell. Not sure if a dedicated adapter differs from an integrated Intel on my laptop but I heard there is a Jabra Link 370 can cure the ***. MS has the worst Bluetooth stack I've seen.


I meant aptxHD or LDAC which to my ears sound much better than the other formats, especially LDAC at 990kbps.


----------



## tracyca

Fiio coming out with a new color of btr5.


----------



## d73b3e

psikey said:


> I meant aptxHD or LDAC which to my ears sound much better than the other formats, especially LDAC at 990kbps.


Did you do a blind test on those formats?


----------



## Kentajalli

d73b3e said:


> Did you do a blind test on those formats?


I have, equipment and material dependent, the improvements are there, but it is not night and day.


----------



## FiiO

tracyca said:


> Fiio coming out with a new color of btr5.


Yes! Limited Edition Collectible BTR5 Mirror of the Sky Edition:






Best regards


----------



## FiiO

hmscott said:


> @FiiO, I haven't ordered from FiiO on Aliexpress, maybe you have a better shipping arrangement than other vendors I've used?  How long does your free shipping on Aliexpress take to deliver to California for example?
> 
> In my experience it takes so long to get things from Aliexpress - unless we opt to pay a huge shipping cost which makes the transaction too costly - can you please stock the BTR5 on Amazon again, that's where I bought my BTR5:
> https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR5-384K-Bluetooth5-0-Headphone-Unbalanced/dp/B07ZK3M6XK
> ...


Hi, 

We have sent small amont of BTR5 to Amazon last week. So if you would like to get one from Amazon, you may pay attention to the stocks.

Best regards


----------



## psikey (May 15, 2020)

d73b3e said:


> Did you do a blind test on those formats?


Sure did. Can easily hear the difference if using sensitive IEM's.

Its easy to force BT connection type on the BTR5 using with my S10+/V30/ZX507, but also listening straight out of an old iPhone I have and a PC with its limited BT.

LDAC 990 Vs LDAC 600 maybe not so much difference really.


----------



## psikey (May 15, 2020)

Kentajalli said:


> I have, equipment and material dependent, the improvements are there, but it is not night and day.


What you listening with? Its really noticeable when using my SE846's or K10U's, not if using some standard pack-in earphones or even my old Klipsch X10i (via the BTR5 or previous BTR3 I had).

Can even hear the improvement with my Audeze Mobius over LDAC with S10+ vs BT out of the iPhone or PC.


----------



## hmscott (May 15, 2020)

FiiO said:


> Yes! Limited Edition Collectible BTR5 Mirror of the Sky Edition:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





FiiO said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have sent small amount of BTR5 to Amazon last week. So if you would like to get one from Amazon, you may pay attention to the stocks.
> 
> Best regards


What about the BTR5 "Sky Edition"?  Will any be shipped to Amazon (or?) for US sales?  Where is the best place for us to find one?

*Update: *I found the BTR5 "Sky Edition" on FiiO's AliExpress Store listing for the BTR5 as another "color" option @ $128.79:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html


----------



## Kentajalli

psikey said:


> What you listening with? Its really noticeable when using my SE846's or K10U's, not if using some standard pack-in earphones or even my old Klipsch X10i (via the BTR5 or previous BTR3 I had).
> 
> Can even hear the improvement with my Audeze Mobius over LDAC with S10+ vs BT out of the iPhone or PC.


I have UE700, q-Jays , both very similar and BTR5 - I just ordered a Chord Mojo, awaiting delivery.
Generally BT has a rounded, easy to listen to signature to sound. Fine detail is glossed over and so on.
But on familiar good recordings, where I know certain detail is there, LDAC sound more open in general compared to say SBC.
But the range I get from LDAC 990 is so limited that I wonder about its practicality - maybe it is my phone!
On SBC I get about a good 8-10 meters , on LDAC 990 only a foot or two.


----------



## megabigeye (May 15, 2020)

hmscott said:


> You're notice that the BTR3k will be available May 28th is now missing... are more coming BTR3k's to Amazon soon?  When?
> https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR3K-Bluetooth-Headphone-Unbalanced/dp/B085XT3V3X
> 
> Without the protection of FiiO as a seller on Amazon we get scalpers selling into the void left by FiiO, right now there is one (山西童贸易有限公司 - Shanxi Children's Trading Co., Ltd.) - *selling the $69 BTR3k @ $107.99*:
> ...


I got my BTR5 at bhphotovideo.com, which is in NYC (if you've never been, the store is quite an experience). Looks like it's currently in stock. Unfortunately, it cost $150 there for some reason.
I was willing to pay a little more because I like B&H, but it'd be nice if FiiO regulated their prices a little more closely. I can't imagine that B&H would be pleased to know that other retailers have lower prices. All the other FiiO items they stock there seem to be the usual price.

EDIT: just realized you were talking about the BTR3K, which B&H don't appear to have in stock.


----------



## HipHopScribe

A retail price is only a suggestion. FiiO could decide not to use distributors who don't adhere to the suggested retail price, but they're playing in a pretty small market and they probably don't have a lot of leverage to enforce the suggested price, especially outside of their native market.


----------



## hmscott (May 15, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> I got my BTR5 at bhphotovideo.com, which is in NYC (if you've never been, the store is quite an experience). Looks like it's currently in stock. Unfortunately, it cost $150 there for some reason.
> I was willing to pay a little more because I like B&H, but it'd be nice if FiiO regulated their prices a little more closely. I can't imagine that B&H would be pleased to know that other retailers have lower prices. All the other FiiO items they stock there seem to be the usual price.
> 
> EDIT: just realized you were talking about the BTR3K, which B&H don't appear to have in stock.


Thanks for the heads up on B&H carrying the BTR5 and not the BTR3k.  Last I looked B&H were out of the FiiO M15 (I got my M15 as a bundle from China - Hifigo.com), and B&H were out of the BTR5 and B&H doesn't have a product page for the BTR3k.

B&H is a great store, and yes I have been there a few times long ago. I do buy from B&H whenever the product is closer to their specialties - photography and video.

For audio I prefer to support boutique audio shops - online and in person - like Hifigo.com, it's great when you can find a good group of people to support, like @FiiO.


----------



## d73b3e (May 15, 2020)

HipHopScribe said:


> A retail price is only a suggestion. FiiO could decide not to use distributors who don't adhere to the suggested retail price, but they're playing in a pretty small market and they probably don't have a lot of leverage to enforce the suggested price, especially outside of their native market.


Native, domestic price for BTR5 is $80 =)))
Edit: I was wrong, mistaken with FH1s


----------



## hmscott

d73b3e said:


> Native, domestic price for BTR5 is $80 =)))


Native where?  Links?

I've always seen $109.99 as the MSRP for the BTR5, even from FiiO:

"At only $109.99 it can be an excellent Christmas gift for your audiophile friends that don’t have a smartphone with a headphone jack."
https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/357741.html


----------



## HipHopScribe (May 15, 2020)

I assume they mean the price in China (converted to US dollars)


----------



## hmscott (May 15, 2020)

HipHopScribe said:


> I assume they mean the prince in China (converted to US dollars)


Not sure what you meant, that the BTR5 is $80USD equivalent on sale in China?  Not that I've ever seen, it's always been $109.99 or higher - mostly higher.  Link?

FiiO is currently selling the BTR5 for $129 on their AliExpress Store (with a case) along with the BTR5 "Sky Edition" for $128.79
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html

Hifigo has dropped their BTR5 (without a case) price to $119.99 - from $149.99 @megabigeye
https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-btr5-dual-es9218p-dac-native-dsd-decoding-bluetooth-amplifier


----------



## HipHopScribe

I doubt the price on the international website for Hifigo or Aliexpress reflects the domestic price for the Chinese market, but I don't know


----------



## d73b3e

hmscott said:


> Not sure what you meant, that the BTR5 is $80USD equivalent on sale in China?  Not that I've ever seen, it's always been $109.99 or higher - mostly higher.  Link?
> 
> FiiO is currently selling the BTR5 for $129 on their AliExpress Store (with a case) along with the BTR5 "Sky Edition" for $128.79
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html
> ...


The correct conversion is 698 CNY ~$98.xx. I misread the BTR5 with some thing else from FiiO. Here is the link: https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=604099078511&scene=taobao_shop&sku_properties=5919063:6536025


----------



## megabigeye

HipHopScribe said:


> A retail price is only a suggestion. FiiO could decide not to use distributors who don't adhere to the suggested retail price, but they're playing in a pretty small market and they probably don't have a lot of leverage to enforce the suggested price, especially outside of their native market.


I agree that MSRP is a suggestion, but it's in the best interest of a retailer to sell an item for as much as they can while also not being more expensive than other retailers. MSRP is often a convenient balance. Any discount hurts a retailer, but a lost sale hurts more, so it really wouldn't be in B&H's best interest to sell something that could be easily found elsewhere for less. Anytime I've bought anything from B&H they've always had competitive prices, which is why I wonder if FiiO is offering different prices to different outlets.
... On the other hand, it's not in a vendor/manufacturer's (e.g., FiiO) best interest to screw retailers in that way, for fear of losing that account. So I'm a little confused what exactly is going on.

Anyway, I don't want to sidetrack the thread too much... And this is all speculation on my part.

@hmscott, yes, I saw that price (maybe it was a bit more) when I bought from B&H, but decided to go for the more expensive option anyway. I figured I'd give my money to a company I know and like during these tough times... And I was a little unsure about the status of international shipping during the pandemic.


----------



## hmscott (May 15, 2020)

d73b3e said:


> The correct conversion is 698 CNY ~$98.xx. I misread the BTR5 with some thing else from FiiO. Here is the link: https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=604099078511&scene=taobao_shop&sku_properties=5919063:6536025


Hey, that's great, and there are other bundles, wow the "Sky Edition" ¥ 908.00 = 127.85 USD

The FiiO M15 in their FiiO Store on Taobao is $1266 USD equivalent, so pretty close to $1299 MSRP in US: 8998 CNY = 1266.95 USD


----------



## hmscott (May 15, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> @hmscott, yes, I saw that price (maybe it was a bit more) when I bought from B&H, but decided to go for the more expensive option anyway. I figured I'd give my money to a company I know and like during these tough times... And I was a little unsure about the status of international shipping during the pandemic.


I'd add that you might ask BH customer service (cs@bhphoto.com) for price consideration in that situation, show them the links to competitors prices.

Shipping from China to the US (west coast) has improved over the last month or so, my last order took 3 days via DHL from Hifigo.com.

Several orders on Aliexpress have been shipping for weeks, and still nothing... sigh.

I've canceled several other orders on AliExpress as I found the items here in the US cheaper and delivery in a few days - while the AliExpress orders hadn't even shipped yet.  The other AliExpress orders that have shipped are still in transit, and I don't have US local tracking for them yet.

It will depend on how savvy the vendor is dealing with the ever changing shipping situation in China.  Hifigo staff really have done a great job so far taking care to offer the fastest route - like when DHL was backed up even worse, packages backing up at the docks - and offered faster Fedex shipping  - and I was happy to pay the Fedex cost to get the items sooner.

I only wish AliExpress's higher cost shipping options made sense for the smaller $ purchases, even if you spend a few $XXX's on an item the costs are just too high for other than the AliExpress branded shipping options.

In FiiO's AliExpress store the higher priced items I've checked include DHL shipping in the price.  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html

For less expensive items FiiO asks the buyer to pay the shipping:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000953553499.html

I have learned that when buying on AliExpress to always double check the default shipping cost and cost options for faster deliver - and select the delivery I want before adding the item to my cart, or before clicking Buy if I want to skip the cart.


----------



## HipHopScribe (May 15, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> I agree that MSRP is a suggestion, but it's in the best interest of a retailer to sell an item for as much as they can while also not being more expensive than other retailers. MSRP is often a convenient balance. Any discount hurts a retailer, but a lost sale hurts more, so it really wouldn't be in B&H's best interest to sell something that could be easily found elsewhere for less. Anytime I've bought anything from B&H they've always had competitive prices, which is why I wonder if FiiO is offering different prices to different outlets.
> ... On the other hand, it's not in a vendor/manufacturer's (e.g., FiiO) best interest to screw retailers in that way, for fear of losing that account. So I'm a little confused what exactly is going on.
> 
> Anyway, I don't want to sidetrack the thread too much... And this is all speculation on my part.
> ...



I doubt B&H will drop their price until the BTR5 is available consistently on Amazon with quick shipping. I might be wrong, only did a quick search, but it appears that if you're in the US and want the BTR5 quickly from a US based retailer, B&H is currently the only option, which is likely why they've raised their price


----------



## Regans

I’ve just returned my brt5 back to Amazon. I’ve used it for the past 2 weeks both 3.5 and balanced on my Tin t2 and fidelio x2 using my galaxy s8 and 2020 iPad Pro on Spotify Apple Music and tidal. And also hooked it through my Little Dot mk2 amp and I really struggle to hear any difference using it through anything i have. Maybe it’s because I’m using cheap headphones/earphones.?


----------



## ClieOS

Regans said:


> I’ve just returned my brt5 back to Amazon. I’ve used it for the past 2 weeks both 3.5 and balanced on my Tin t2 and fidelio x2 using my galaxy s8 and 2020 iPad Pro on Spotify Apple Music and tidal. And also hooked it through my Little Dot mk2 amp and I really struggle to hear any difference using it through anything i have. Maybe it’s because I’m using cheap headphones/earphones.?



There can be a number of reasons why you can't hear a difference. But as a general rule of thumb, you should always invest you money on headphone first as this usually gives the biggest bang for buck on upgrade.


----------



## Luke Skywalker

PTDennis said:


> I think that Tidal MQA is only up to 96/24 https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000397069-TIDAL-MASTERS


Hey dude I’ve found up to 24/192 Tidal MQA. Been playing it on my HiBy R6 Pro now that they added full MQA support.

Here’s a playlist I found just googling 

https://tidal.com/playlist/1cbce60c-2412-451e-a1e1-39faf87b617b


----------



## Luke Skywalker

mindhead1 said:


> ES100 is great. Get it if you need a BT amp now.


Agreed. The 2.5mm balanced sounds awesome with JH Lola


----------



## d73b3e

Regans said:


> I’ve just returned my brt5 back to Amazon. I’ve used it for the past 2 weeks both 3.5 and balanced on my Tin t2 and fidelio x2 using my galaxy s8 and 2020 iPad Pro on Spotify Apple Music and tidal. And also hooked it through my Little Dot mk2 amp and I really struggle to hear any difference using it through anything i have. Maybe it’s because I’m using cheap headphones/earphones.?


Why returning it? At least you should see the difference on the same volume level between 3.5 and balanced 

I can't tell the difference in sound as well but I know for sure BTR5 does not produce hissing noises as cheap as other bluetooth products. Your headphones are not cheap but you can't hear unless you've been trained to spot the differences. Just enjoy music as you see fit and convenience with your gears. Save money to support your fave artists and producers 

Also, Spotify does ruin the music badly. I would recommend you stay away from it (the app, not the web player) if you can.


----------



## MrRegan

d73b3e said:


> Why returning it? At least you should see the difference on the same volume level between 3.5 and balanced
> 
> I can't tell the difference in sound as well but I know for sure BTR5 does not produce hissing noises as cheap as other bluetooth products. Your headphones are not cheap but you can't hear unless you've been trained to spot the differences. Just enjoy music as you see fit and convenience with your gears. Save money to support your fave artists and producers
> 
> Also, Spotify does ruin the music badly. I would recommend you stay away from it (the app, not the web player) if you can.




I tried balanced and 3.5 but couldn't really hear difference if I'm honest. I think I'll will buy some new earphones as suggested as that's the upgrade I'm probably seeking.

 I've been reading up on the fiio fh7 and they seem to be decent.


----------



## Kentajalli (May 18, 2020)

MrRegan said:


> I tried balanced and 3.5 but couldn't really hear difference if I'm honest. I think I'll will buy some new earphones as suggested as that's the upgrade I'm probably seeking.


The only difference in sound quality between balanced and unbalanced (save for more power in balanced) is the stereo image, to my ears at last.
The tonal balance and resolution does not change - HOWEVER!
that stereo image thingy already mentioned means, instruments are better spaced in your head, so psychologically they are easier to hear - this gives the impression of better resolution or maybe my definition of "Resolution" differs from others .
It might also (not sure) affect the output impedance, and that can have sonic effects on some headphones.
Over all for £90 I can not grumble that much - it is a good little gadget - not really serious boutique HiFi .

As for investing in better headphones, ofcourse, always.
But some of us who are a little older, and do remember the the days of Linn/Naim HiFi (late 70's)- it was well demonstrated then, that a top flight source with a top flight amplifier fed into an average pair of speakers, sounds much better than, a top flight pair of speakers, driven by average amplifier/source systems.
Topflight headphone/IEM's are more difficult to drive and show up flaws in the previous chain much better than average ones.
So partnering a £1000 IEM with a £90 amp, may not be wise!


----------



## Kentajalli

Kentajalli said:


> *Update to Possible Bug Report:*
> Since so far nobody has investigated this issue, I did the following.
> I connected the device to my laptop's BT (only SBC - anyone knows how to do hi-res out of win 10?) - I checked the volume, and then connected it through USB and checked again.
> There was no level discrepancy I could detect.
> ...


*Final Report There's no bug*
At last I got to the bottom of this. BTR5 remembers its volume settings for USB and BT independently!
Meaning, if you play some music using BT at say volume level 40, and then try to do an A/B comparison with USB mode, the device reinstates the last volume settings it was used for that mode - so if last time you used USB at volume 45 - it jumps to that!
That was what threw me off.


----------



## MrRegan

Kentajalli said:


> The only difference in sound quality between balanced and unbalanced (save for more power in balanced) is the stereo image, to my ears at last.
> The tonal balance and resolution does not change - HOWEVER!
> that stereo image thingy already mentioned means, instruments are better spaced in your head, so psychologically they are easier to hear - this gives the impression of better resolution or maybe my definition of "Resolution" differs from others .
> It might also (not sure) affect the output impedance, and that can have sonic effects on some headphones.
> ...




I agree about the Naim/Linn thing. I'm into projectors and reference TV's and they are only as good as the source material they are fed. At the other end my Oppo blu ray player makes the cheap LG TV in the bedroom look stunning for what it is. 

I've never took headphones and iems seriously until now, which is weird because I use iems for at least 6 hours per day..


----------



## hmscott

Kentajalli said:


> *Final Report There's no bug*
> At last I got to the bottom of this. BTR5 remembers its volume settings for USB and BT independently!
> Meaning, if you play some music using BT at say volume level 40, and then try to do an A/B comparison with USB mode, the device reinstates the last volume settings it was used for that mode - so if last time you used USB at volume 45 - it jumps to that!
> That was what threw me off.


Yup, I noticed this right away as I use the BTR5 / BTR3k hooked up simultaneously via USB DAC and BT to my PC, so that when I disconnect the USB cable a couple of seconds later the BTR5 reconnects with the PC via BT - and any volume differences are immediately noticeable.

You can set the BTR5 / BTR3k in the FiiO Control (or Music) App to prioritize BT first or USB first - for the above functionality I have it set to USB DAC as first priority.


----------



## Psikyo

d73b3e said:


> Also, Spotify does ruin the music badly. I would recommend you stay away from it (the app, not the web player) if you can.



What are you referring to exactly when you say Spotify ruins the music badly? In my experience at the same bit rate from Tidal there wasn't much difference.


----------



## boodado (May 19, 2020)

So I attended CamJam NYC this year and had an interesting conversation with a couple of other attendees.  It made me rethink consumer audio. General consensus was we should be supporting the artists and purchasing songs and albums (e.g. CD / LP) to ensure the legacy of the work.  When we only subscribe to streaming services we are at the mercy of the streaming vendor.  They will only procure the rights to songs that are profitable to them.  Instead of providing full albums they have the ability to only license popular songs.  That's why streaming services and MQA are not truly benefiting music as an art form but more as a service based on profit.  Just a thought.  Okay men in black will be tracking me now...


----------



## big45-70 (May 19, 2020)

So I picked up a cheap balanced cable of ebay for my T60RP Argon's and as soon as I plugged it in the music sounded very hollow.  I then did a small channel test and it appears when I'm using a balanced cable I loose stereo sound and what should be coming through only left or right is always center.  It appears as if I have lost all imaging whatsoever.  Any suggestions on what the problem is?


----------



## Kentajalli

> I loose stereo sound and what should be coming through only left or right is always center.  It appears as if I have lost all imaging whatsoever.  Any suggestions on what the problem is?


Well you said it, CHEAP cable, more probably faulty cable.
The effect you are describing happens when the "common" connection to an unbalabced cable is disconnected. (have you pushed the jack firmly in ?)
Or perhaps the cable is wrongly wired to the jack.
It is the cable wiring for sure.
Again, have you pushed .......


----------



## IEManiac

boodado said:


> So I attended CamJam NYC this year and had an interesting conversation with a couple of other attendees.  It made me rethink consumer audio. General consensus was we should be supporting the artists and purchasing songs and albums (e.g. CD / LP) to ensure the legacy of the work.  When we only subscribe to streaming services we are at the mercy of the streaming vendor.  They will only procure the rights to songs that are profitable to them.  Instead of providing full albums they have the ability to only license popular songs.  That's why streaming services and MQA are not truly benefiting music as an art form but more as a service based on profit.  Just a thought.  Okay men in black will be tracking me now...


I use Spotify as an audition service, to look for music to buy.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

IEManiac said:


> I use Spotify as an audition service, to look for music to buy.


That is me with Amazon Music.


----------



## IEManiac

I have bought more music _after_ signing up for Spotify Premium than before.


----------



## boodado

Excellent - great to hear. Made me go hmmm... Hate to lose the story of an "album" as opposed to a song.


----------



## d73b3e

Psikyo said:


> What are you referring to exactly when you say Spotify ruins the music badly? In my experience at the same bit rate from Tidal there wasn't much difference.


A specific song "Theme from Lazarus" performed by Federico Montoya gives rattling noises to my gears. And only mobile/desktop app from Spotify does this. If you play the song in a browser there is no such noises.


----------



## Kentajalli (May 20, 2020)

*I am sending my Fiio back*
My BTR5 is about two weeks old, I am still within my window to return it.
Don't get me wrong, it is terrific piece of gadgetry - it pretty much does everything! from CD to DSD - USB and BT - good battery, cute etc.
But ultimately the sound quality is not good enough for me - you see I *managed to get a Chord Mojo *- I know they are two different items and *Mojo is 4 times the price* with no BT!
But once you listen to Mojo, others just pale into background noise.
Anyways, this not a Mojo thread - but there is a lesson to learn here - an old one.
Jack of all trades is master of none!
Fiio has tried to jam too much into a low cost device perhaps it was wiser to focus on less but at better quality.


----------



## ClieOS

Kentajalli said:


> ...
> Anyways, this not a Mojo thread - but there is a lesson to learn here - an old one.
> Jack of all trades is master of none!
> Fiio has tried to jam too much into a low cost device perhaps it was wiser to focus on less but at better quality.



I think the real lessen to learn here is that you (and in fact all of us) just need to know how to prioritize what you want. FiiO does make really good DAC/amp  (*Q5 series) as well, just that BTR5 isn't it. It is ultimately a really good BT adapter, but not the best DAC/amp there is because there is a size limitation. The opposite can be said to Mojo - really excellent sounding, but otherwise not the best for convenience even if it has BT function. In the end it is just a case of picking your own poison - if you want the best SQ, you are not going to find it in a small BT adapter; If you just want something small to carry around, the a full-sized just won't make you happy.


----------



## Kentajalli

> FiiO does make really good DAC/amp


Couldn't agree more.
I am all praise for Fiio. I had an E17 KUNLUN that I was very happy with, but somehow it refused to connect to my new phone, hence my new purchases.
But think about it for a minute - as lovely as BTR5 is (no doubt) in reality it is a good BT adaptor first & formost.
I bet one can get a BT earphone/headphone for about same money, with very comparable sound quality.
Cheap BT dongles serve a purpose, superb BT dongles also serve a purpose.
Similarly cheap USB DAC's serve no purpose, neither do average ones.
BTR5 is not sufficient (on BT) for a Hi-res pair of IEM's.
In my opinion at this price range, omitting the USB input (and DSD) and spending more on the BT and the amp would have resulted in a device that I could go for.
I am still in market for a tiny BT dongle that sounds anything like Mojo.
Don't tell me, I am not spending £600 on a Poly - I am not that desperate!


----------



## HipHopScribe (May 20, 2020)

Kentajalli said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> I am all praise for Fiio. I had an E17 KUNLUN that I was very happy with, but somehow it refused to connect to my new phone, hence my new purchases.
> But think about it for a minute - as lovely as BTR5 is (no doubt) in reality it is a good BT adaptor first & formost.
> I bet one can get a BT earphone/headphone for about same money, with very comparable sound quality.
> ...



- Someone could buy a $120 pair of bluetooth headphones, but they're not gonna be very good and the whole point of buying a BT dac/amp is that you want to be able to use the wired headphones you already have with it, so clearly we've all decided a $120 pair of Bluetooth headphone is not a good alternative before buying a Bluetooth dac/amp

- Cheap USB DACs absolutely do serve a purpose, not everyone wants to spend a lot of money on different devices and sometimes having something small and portable that is also a bluetooth device is useful.

- Plenty of people are happy running high quality IEMs from the BTR5 because they recognize it for what it is, which is not a Chord Mojo+Poly

- The USB functionality is a feature of the components they're using that also process the Bluetooth signal, so omitting the USB input really doesn't save any component costs on FiiO's end and probably very minimal development cost, but it does take away a feature that some of us do use. There's no reason that omitting USB would make the BT sound better

- Your expectations are just unrealistic if you expect a $120 BT dac/amp to sound like a $500 DAC/Amp. That's fine, maybe it's not for you, but the BTR5 is competing against other Bluetooth dac/amp, not against the Chord Mojo


----------



## tracyca

I for one think the btr5 sounds great with my collection of IEM. Although my q5s sounds more resolving and dynamic the tiny package and build quality the btr5 has is amazing.


----------



## jsmiller58

As they say, different horses for different courses...  A good BT adapter at a good price should be counted on to be at most an OK USB DAC/Amp for portable on the go.  If you want a good USB DAC/Amp, you need to get something that is dedicated to that.  We all WANT a cheap all-in-one, and a few years from now $120 will buy something freakingly amazing... just not right now


----------



## Kentajalli (May 20, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> As they say, different horses for different courses...  A good BT adapter at a good price should be counted on to be at most an OK USB DAC/Amp for portable on the go.  If you want a good USB DAC/Amp, you need to get something that is dedicated to that.  We all WANT a cheap all-in-one, and a few years from now $120 will buy something freakingly amazing... just not right now


Well my last thoughts on the matter.
I actually reviewed the BTR5, and you can see that I liked it, indeed I preferred the USB to BT functionality .
so in no way was I bashing the Fiio.
it is just that in my opinion, my £90 ($120) was spread too thinly on many facilities that frankly Fiio managed to perform just adequately . I just wished (for my use) they would have picked BT and concentrated on that alone.
no USB hence no DSD or multi sample rates, no balanced output - but with far superior Sonic's, as far as BT LDAC could allow.
going back to your first line analogy:
you wouldn't put a working horse, to run the Derby! do you?
either a work horse, or a race horse , lets throw in show jumping and movie work on top!
I don't think so.
Poor thing is trying to pull too many tricks.
Is it a good product, absolutely .
does it look good, sure.
is it value for money , you bet.
is there anything out there that fits my requirements - please tell me. up to $200.


----------



## jsmiller58 (May 21, 2020)

Kentajalli said:


> Well my last thoughts on the matter.
> I actually reviewed the BTR5, and you can see that I liked it, indeed I preferred the USB to BT functionality .
> so in no way was I bashing the Fiio.
> it is just that in my opinion, my £90 ($120) was spread too thinly on many facilities that frankly Fiio managed to perform just adequately . I just wished (for my use) they would have picked BT and concentrated on that alone.
> ...



”is there anything out there that fits my requirements - please tell me. up to $200.”

I have no idea what out there would suit your needs because we may be using different rulers / have different expectations.

I am perfectly content with the BTR5 as a BT receiver - I have the ES100, the Hidizs W5, and the Hidizs W3 to compare it to and am happy with what I hear.  I use it primarily for BT, but it is nice to know it will do as a USB DAC/Amp in a pinch - for that I am happy to have paid a bit more.

If I am looking for just a portable USB DAC/Amp I have perfectly capable 9038s gen2, Hidizs S8, minidsp il-DSP, and soon to arrive 9038s gen 3 and Lotoo Paw S1, all of which I will happily use if I want the best wired sound on the go.  And my LG v30 is no slouch all by itself!

And if I am sitting at my desk I would forego all of the above and rely on my different desktop setups - DX7s & 789, M500 & Atom, or D50s & Geshelli Archel 2 Pro...

So, different horses for different courses...  I don’t expect one device to do everything well, for that I expect to use different products. But I like that the BTR5 is a great BT device, in MY opinion, and apparently shared by a few others, and that it can do a passable job as a USB DAC/Amp in a pinch, useful if I don‘t have access to my other sources.  I can’t carry my DX7s / 789 combo around as a portable unit, so the BTR5 has value right there 

But I am not trying to convince you of anything.  I know what I want and like, and the BTR5 suits me.  I know that you like the BTR5 from what you’ve said, but it still leaves you dissatisfied.  I really, and truly, hope you find something out there that meets what you are looking for.  When you do, please let us know about it!


----------



## Kentajalli

jsmiller58 said:


> When you do, please let us know about it!


I shall, even at risk of being called a twat again 😊.
thanx.


----------



## lucasd

Kentajalli said:


> Well my last thoughts on the matter.
> I actually reviewed the BTR5, and you can see that I liked it, indeed I preferred the USB to BT functionality .
> so in no way was I bashing the Fiio.
> it is just that in my opinion, my £90 ($120) was spread too thinly on many facilities that frankly Fiio managed to perform just adequately . I just wished (for my use) they would have picked BT and concentrated on that alone.
> ...


If you like it more on USB it simply means the rest is limitation of BT codec.
Every BT coded is not loosless. LDAC 990 seems quite nice, but I'm not sure which codec you use. For example on iphone you only get AAC.
So basically the only possible improvement on BT (by Fiio) would be to improve signal (SNR), whether it is achievable is different question...


----------



## jsmiller58

Kentajalli said:


> I shall, even at risk of being called a twat again 😊.
> thanx.


Don’t sweat it.  Everyone is stressed out.


----------



## RH64

So this is interesting.  I was using the es100 with my hd600 just to listen to youtube videos.  I switched to the btr5 to compare and I noticed a much different, and to my untrained ear, better sound.  I really didn't expect this as I thought the es100 was great.

As I have mounted my es100 to the HD600, now I need to decide if the added weight of the btr5 is worth it!


----------



## jsmiller58

RH64 said:


> So this is interesting.  I was using the es100 with my hd600 just to listen to youtube videos.  I switched to the btr5 to compare and I noticed a much different, and to my untrained ear, better sound.  I really didn't expect this as I thought the es100 was great.
> 
> As I have mounted my es100 to the HD600, now I need to decide if the added weight of the btr5 is worth it!


I am sure you are doing it, but just in case do your very best to volume match...  maybe even have someone double check for you if volume levels are matched...  as you know, louder usually equals better to our human ears/senses...  to a point anyway!


----------



## d73b3e

boodado said:


> That's why streaming services and MQA are not truly benefiting music as an art form but more as a service based on profit.  Just a thought.  Okay men in black will be tracking me now...


MQA da snakes oil 



RH64 said:


> So this is interesting.  I was using the es100 with my hd600 just to listen to youtube videos.  I switched to the btr5 to compare and I noticed a much different, and to my untrained ear, better sound.  I really didn't expect this as I thought the es100 was great.
> 
> As I have mounted my es100 to the HD600, now I need to decide if the added weight of the btr5 is worth it!


Unless some one does measurements, I don't trust your ears LOL
But if you decide to go with the BTR5, ping me on the price of your es100 + ship


----------



## Simple Man

After a few days of use I was pleasantly surprised about the sound quality with my iphone and spotify on the go. Using an old set of Sennheiser buds. €25,-.


----------



## RH64

Yeah, I probably shouldn't trust my ears either!  I'll try it some more and see if I can pinpoint the difference.


----------



## Simple Man

I was working while I listened to it. So nothing serious. Playing my The Cure playlist. I'm a big fan from 1980/81 or so and heard the songs very, very often.
The Sennheusers are about 10 yo and cheap.
But I've noticed more detail, better controlled bass but also, some songs, a harsh mid, voices.
It is deffenitly worth to give it a try again. 
I wish you wishdom.


----------



## big45-70

Simple Man said:


> After a few days of use I was pleasantly surprised about the sound quality with my iphone and spotify on the go. Using an old set of Sennheiser buds. €25,-.



Same, this is my first time using a Bluetooth device and I was very skeptical of AAC however it was completely unfounded and my iphone/spotify/aac out of a btr5 sounds great.


----------



## r31ya (May 26, 2020)

Just bought, BTR5, still haven't update it or install the high performance driver.

But so far on wired mode, with 3.5mm, to PC, its so clean, clear, and have great separation. My (slightly more expensive) Dragonfly Red sounds like muffled with compared to this.
That being said, DFR seems to have thicker vocal but giving less emphasis on other instrument to reduce congestion compared to BTR5.

It reminds me to Xduoo-XD-05 who also have great clean sound, separation and soundstage. But BTR5 comes in much smaller form. I think XD-05 still have upper hand on the size of soundstage and a bit more clarity but its been awhile since i listen to it.


----------



## d73b3e

Hi @FiiO,
Is there a way to use the BTR5 as USB DAC without turning it on? Or using the power from the computer instead of the battery? Thanks


----------



## Chris Kaoss

d73b3e said:


> Hi @FiiO,
> Is there a way to use the BTR5 as USB DAC without turning it on? Or using the power from the computer instead of the battery? Thanks


1. no
2. yes, you have to check "charging on", the computer will power the Btr5.
But be aware to get a bit higher temps of the device while listening to it.

Have a great day.
Chris


----------



## dnsnlsn

r31ya said:


> Just bought, BTR5, still haven't update it or install the high performance driver.
> 
> But so far on wired mode, with 3.5mm, to PC, its so clean, clear, and have great separation. My (slightly more expensive) Dragonfly Red sounds like muffled with compared to this.
> That being said, DFR seems to have thicker vocal but giving less emphasis on other instrument to reduce congestion compared to BTR5.
> ...


High performance driver?


----------



## Hinomotocho

I had a BTR3 a while back and had no issues with connecting to either my LG TV or my Nvidia Shield. I read a review where there were issues with bluetooth connectivity to his Nintendo Switch and another device using the BTR5, whereas his BTR3K was fine. I am considering getting a BTR5 for mostly connecting via bluetooth to my Nvidia Shield and LG TV for watching movies, TV series etc - can anyone please tell me if they have had any issues with connectivity with either of my devices?


----------



## ClieOS

Hinomotocho said:


> I had a BTR3 a while back and had no issues with connecting to either my LG TV or my Nvidia Shield. I read a review where there were issues with bluetooth connectivity to his Nintendo Switch and another device using the BTR5, whereas his BTR3K was fine. I am considering getting a BTR5 for mostly connecting via bluetooth to my Nvidia Shield and LG TV for watching movies, TV series etc - can anyone please tell me if they have had any issues with connectivity with either of my devices?



Last I checked, Switch BT is only for connecting between it's wireless controllers and not for audio. What you read is probably meant as USB DAC, not as BT adapter. Switch USB DAC driver is also very limited in function and can't be used with advanced chipset such as the XMOS chip in BTR5, but it can work fine with CSR8675's (what many other BT adapter s have) internal USB controller.

That being said, Switch is a unique case as Nintendo doesn't build a fully functional USB DAC driver in the OS, nor allow other BT audio devices to connect it, probably because they like to keep a tight control over accessories market.


----------



## Hinomotocho (May 27, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Last I checked, Switch BT is only for connecting between it's wireless controllers and not for audio. What you read is probably meant as USB DAC, not as BT adapter. Switch USB DAC driver is also very limited in function and can't be used with advanced chipset such as the XMOS chip in BTR5, but it can work fine with CSR8675's (what many other BT adapter s have) internal USB controller.
> 
> That being said, Switch is a unique case as Nintendo doesn't build a fully functional USB DAC driver in the OS, nor allow other BT audio devices to connect it, probably because they like to keep a tight control over accessories market.


Thanks for your reply.
I read this review and misread that he had Bluetooth connection issues - he was actually referring to the USB connection with the Switch. 
I'm just hoping the BTR5 bluetooth will be as reliable as my BTR3 was with my Nvidia Shield as I had frequent issues when I owned a xDSD. 

https://hifigo.com/blogs/review/fiio-btr3k-vs-btr5-comparison-bluetooth-dac-amp-user-review


----------



## Hinomotocho

I just bought a BTR5. 
I have the Fiio CL06 cable which doesn't draw power from the phone. It seems that Fiio don't do a USB C to USB C, are there any out there that don't draw power so you don't have to use the app to turn the charging off?


----------



## megabigeye

You can do it directly on the BTR5 through the menu system. I think that by design USB-C will always be able to provide power.


----------



## Hinomotocho

megabigeye said:


> You can do it directly on the BTR5 through the menu system. I think that by design USB-C will always be able to provide power.


Thank you. I rarely used it with my Q5s but from memory the CL06 is designed to not draw power.


----------



## Mohjong

I'm using this device now with 3.5 balanced headphone/headsets and does get stereo imaging.  Wonder if I'm killing the device or it's a feature not being mentioned?  BTW the only other device I can get stereo imaging is the QA361 3.5 balanced port.


----------



## ClieOS

Mohjong said:


> I'm using this device now with 3.5 balanced headphone/headsets and does get stereo imaging.  Wonder if I'm killing the device or it's a feature not being mentioned?  BTW the only other device I can get stereo imaging is the QA361 3.5 balanced port.



That has more to do with the actual 3.5mm socket part inside BTR5 and nothing to do with your headphone having balanced 3.5mm or not. In short - no, you won't damage BTR5 or your headphones.


----------



## Mohjong

ClieOS said:


> That has more to do with the actual 3.5mm socket part inside BTR5 and nothing to do with your headphone having balanced 3.5mm or not. In short - no, you won't damage BTR5 or your headphones.


Thanks for the reply.  I honest thought it has that feature because I connect the jack straight in to the bottom with a 3.5 TRRS with the LCD-XC then just some cheap 3.5 TRRS (mic cable?) with Fidelio X2.  The same test on ES100 just one ear no matter which way I plug in.  BTW, if I use a 3.5 balanced to 2.5 balanced adapter for the BTR5, I have to plug in the plug on the 3.5 part a certain length to get sound for both ears (like you've mentioned about the socket being shorted inside).


----------



## carpler

Talking about adapters...
Can you recommend a good 2.5 balanced to 3.5SE adapter?
Thanks so much!


----------



## Hooga

carpler said:


> Talking about adapters...
> Can you recommend a good 2.5 balanced to 3.5SE adapter?
> Thanks so much!



I always mess up with these descriptions. You mean: an adapter with a 3.5 SE MALE connector, and a 2.5 BE FEMALE one - right?

I've been using this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 1, 2020)

DDHiFI DJ35A or DJ35AG - you can find them in Aliexpres.


----------



## hmscott (Jun 1, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> DDHiFI DJ35A or DJ35AG - you can find them in Aliexpres.





carpler said:


> Talking about adapters...
> Can you recommend a good 2.5 balanced to 3.5SE adapter?
> Thanks so much!


DD sells on Amazon too:
https://www.amazon.com/DD-DJ35A-Headphone-Converter-Amplifier/dp/B082CSM4P4
https://www.amazon.com/s?srs=20653051011

I got my DD adapters from Hifigo to ride along with various equipment shipments, delivered via DHL / Fedex.

But, if I were looking for little things like this outside of hitching a ride on a DHL / Fedex shipment I wouldn't order from AliExpress, I'd source it from Amazon (Prime). 

I've got a half dozen not so small AliExpress orders that have been sitting for weeks without updating - like this one that took 2 weeks to make it from the warehouse to the Post Office - in China...


Spoiler: Shipping Status c/p from AliExpress




Shipment arrived at country of origin post office
2020-05-20 19:12:00

Shipment left country of origin warehouse
2020-05-06 09:40:18 [GMT+8]

Shipment at country of origin warehouse
2020-05-05 21:45:33 [GMT+8]

Shipment dispatched
2020-05-05 19:54:35 [GMT+8]




I did break down and order the *"**Realm of the Sky Edition**" BTR5* from the FiiO Store because it came with DHL shipping, and it's almost here - arrived at LA Gateway 2 days ago... - estimated delivery Wed June 3:


Spoiler: Shipping Status c/p from AliExpress




Departed Facility in LOS ANGELES GATEWAY,CA-USA
2020-05-31 21:38:58

Processed at LOS ANGELES GATEWAY,CA-USA
2020-05-31 21:38:14

Processed at LOS ANGELES GATEWAY,CA-USA
2020-05-31 02:26:26

Clearance processing complete at LOS ANGELES GATEWAY,CA-USA
2020-05-30 22:14:00

Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES GATEWAY,CA-USA
2020-05-30 22:09:51

Departed Facility in HONG KONG-HKG
2020-05-30 13:48:58

Processed at HONG KONG-HKG
2020-05-30 12:47:10

Customs status updated
2020-05-30 09:36:00

Arrived at Sort Facility HONG KONG-HKG
2020-05-30 06:24:37

Departed Facility in HONG KONG-HKG
2020-05-30 04:53:58

Processed at HONG KONG-HKG
2020-05-30 04:53:22

Shipment picked up
2020-05-29 23:52:49




Unless I can bundle the smaller items with larger ones that are coming over via DHL / Fedex I prefer to order from Amazon or another local company.

When AliExpress takes too long to even *ship* products, I've bought a number of things elsewhere before they have shipped from AliExpress - and I cancel those AliExpress orders if I still can.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

hmscott said:


> DD sells on Amazon too:
> https://www.amazon.com/DD-DJ35A-Headphone-Converter-Amplifier/dp/B082CSM4P4
> https://www.amazon.com/s?srs=20653051011
> 
> ...


Wow.
14 days between leaving the ware house and drop in the post office. ^^
Delivered by donkey?


----------



## hmscott (Jun 1, 2020)

Chris Kaoss said:


> Wow.
> 14 days between leaving the ware house and drop in the post office. ^^
> Delivered by donkey?


Yeah, it gets even weirder:   "Your order will be closed in: 62 days 22 hours 17 minutes"

I've already bought the same parts locally... but it will be nice to have "spares" when they finally arrive...


----------



## carpler

Thank you to all for answers!



Hooga said:


> I always mess up with these descriptions. You mean: an adapter with a 3.5 SE MALE connector, and a 2.5 BE FEMALE one - right?
> 
> I've been using this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_



Yes, exactly!



ClieOS said:


> DJ35AG



Beautiful this ones! The DJ35AG is the new model and it costs 5$ more than the DJ35A.
Is it worth spending more because it is a decided improvement over the previous model, or is there not a big difference?


----------



## hmscott

carpler said:


> Thank you to all for answers!
> 
> Beautiful this ones! The DJ35AG is the new model and it costs 5$ more than the DJ35A.
> Is it worth spending more because it is a decided improvement over the previous model, or is there not a big difference?


Nice catch, I blew past the "A" vs "AG" differentiation, I thought it was a "typo", but no, the "G" is "GOLD" as in plating:




You could buy both, test them out and see if you can tell any audible difference, but I'd assume "no difference".

My Stainless Steel versions will wear fine over the years, IDK if Gold plating will help or hurt - sometimes it flakes or peels off...

If you do get both, please let us know what you think about the Gold vs Stainless Steel finishes


----------



## Poganin

Could anyone tell me the average battery life for the BTR5 in USB-DAC mode and charging set to off? Has anyone tested it?


----------



## hmscott (Jun 1, 2020)

hmscott said:


> ...I did break down and order the *"**Realm of the Sky Edition**" BTR5* from the FiiO Store because it came with DHL shipping, and it's almost here - arrived at LA Gateway 2 days ago... - estimated delivery Wed June 3:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Shipping Status c/p from AliExpress
> ...


Amazingly my DHL shipment of the FiiO BTR5 "Realm of the Sky Edition" made it from LA to SF over night, and was delivered at 12 noon today.  


Spoiler: Delivery details c/p from AliExpress




Delivered - Signed for by
2020-06-01 12:00:14

With delivery courier
2020-06-01 09:55:19

Arrived at Delivery Facility in SAN FRANCISCO,CA-USA
2020-06-01 05:32:12




Ordering from FiiO on AliExpress (with DHL shipping) is a great - fast - buying experience.  



Poganin said:


> Could anyone tell me the average battery life for the BTR5 in USB-DAC mode and charging set to off? Has anyone tested it?


For me it was between 4-5 hours, it was a rough estimate based on clock watching not a timer or anything exact like that.  It was also early on in my ownership of the BTR5, and usually the battery run time improves after the first few charge cycles.

I've continued with "Charge=On" since then, so it's always fully charged.  Fortunately none of my devices care much if the BTR5 is drawing power.


----------



## Hooga (Jun 2, 2020)

Poganin said:


> Could anyone tell me the average battery life for the BTR5 in USB-DAC mode and charging set to off? Has anyone tested it?



I did, as I only use it as a USB DAC (I don't like BT sound quality).

It fluctuates a bit depending on
- input file resolution
- output port mainly   (balanced consumes more than single ended)
- volume

Playing a mixture of 16 and 24 bit flacs, 30/60 volume, single ended I could get 4h30. Playing the same mixture balanced ended I got 3h55.

Quite disappointing as - in general - I am with this product that should much more honestly be marketed as a BT-only box.

When used via USB
- battery life kinda sucks
- internal EQ does not work
- internal MIC does not work
- DAC must be reset every time source file resolution changes(*)
... I'll find another quirk today stay tuned 

(*) To avoid that
- if the host is a pc, using Foobar / MusicBee with ASIO drivers is mandatory
- if the host is an android phone, setting BTR5 to USB 1.0 mode is mandatory, but this way max supported input resolution is 24b/96K


----------



## Hinomotocho

I just picked up my BTR5 today, charged it up paired it with all my devices. I have only spent about 2 minutes listening to it and I'm already very happy with this little device.
I owned the BTR3 briefly last year but sold it when moving on to a Q5s. I loved the Q5s but I have reassessed my gear and decided to keep things simple so have sold it and now use a Sony WM1A for my music. My main reason to get the BTR5 was when using with my Nvidia Shield's bluetooth for movies etc, but I could also benefit from having an ultra small option to use with my phone if I didn't want to take my WM1A out. 
I just chose the BTR5 expecting it to be a BTR3 with balanced output giving myself the option of more power, but have realised how awesome this is - I had no idea it had a display with ability to make changes to settings, or the options available in the app. From my very brief listen while setting up it sounds impressive too - well done Fiio.


----------



## r31ya

> - if the host is an android phone, setting BTR5 to USB 1.0 mode is mandatory, but this way max supported input resolution is 24b/96K



This, I've been looking for on how to use USB-DAC in my android. So, i need to change it to USB 1.0.
---
So far BTR5 is pretty decent, two main complain being the BT signal sucks and its not as seamless as Dragonfly when being used as USB-DAC.
Sound wise, It's cleaner and have better seperation than my Dragonfly Red, but the vocal still nicer on Red.


----------



## Hooga

r31ya said:


> This, I've been looking for on how to use USB-DAC in my android. So, i need to change it to USB 1.0.



You can also use it as USB 2.0 but every time you switch from playing (e.g.) a 44.1K file to a 96K file on the source, the BTR5 won't switch for you and distort big time.
The workaround is disconnect and reconnect the USB cable. That will properly reset BTR5's internal DAC.



r31ya said:


> So far BTR5 is pretty decent, two main complain being the BT signal sucks and its not as seamless as Dragonfly when being used as USB-DAC.
> Sound wise, It's cleaner and have better seperation than my Dragonfly Red, but the vocal still nicer on Red.



BT signal is not great, and especially (although this is not BTR5's fault) even LDAC990 introduces sound degradation which I do hear on quite a few well masterd high resolution tracks. I never auditioned a DF Red but I concur on finding BTR5 clean and resolving, especially on BE out. Much less warm then Hiby R3. Slightly warmer than Meizu Hifi DAC Pro (CS43131) on the other hand.


----------



## Kentajalli

I managed to use my BTR5 with my Android phone using USB 2 with no difficulty.
USB 1 on Android limits the BTR5 to lower sampling rates - eg DSD wont work.
On my Huawei (they say they are problematic on USB audio) I had zero problem.
You do need to have the right software player though - Fiio's own works fine.
You see, the software player needs to connect through the Android system to the DAC. not all players can do this.


----------



## lucasd

Has anyone tested clock divider option on battery life and sound quality?
1/4 va 1?

From technical point I think it should influence mostly jitter...


----------



## Kentajalli

lucasd said:


> Has anyone tested clock divider option on battery life and sound quality?
> 1/4 va 1?


Not on the battery life - but on sound quality , I could not detect anything.


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> if the host is an android phone, setting BTR5 to USB 1.0 mode is mandatory


Not correct - it works fine with USB 2 - switches sampling frequency automatically, even native DSD works flawlessly.
Now if you manually choose USB 1 - then you will be encountering the problems you were explaining.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> Not correct - it works fine with USB 2 - switches sampling frequency automatically, even native DSD works flawlessly.



Which Android version have you tested this on?

On Android 7 (Samsung S6) it does *_not_ *switch sampling frequencies automatically when using USB 2.0 neither by using Fiio app, Hiby Music, or UAPP as a player.


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 2, 2020)

Hooga said:


> Which Android version have you tested this on?


Version 9 I believe.
if your phone is old, then that's an incompatibility particular to that version or phone.
Time to get a newer phone?
As I said, everything worked flawlessly with my Huawei and BTR5.
BT worked fine, although range is very temperimental on 990kb/s LDAC.
USB worked perfectly up to DSD - automatically.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> Version 9 I believe.
> if your phone is old, then that's an incompatibility particular to that version or phone.
> Time to get a newer phone?
> As I said, everything worked flawlessly with my Huawei and BTR5.
> ...



I'll check on another Android version, I should have at least 1 Android 8 at home.
That said, this does not forgive Fiio by 1 bit: if their product supports Android just from a certain version up fine, but they should state that on their published specs.

LDAC990 is picky, yes, and offers lower sq when compared to cabled connection anyway so I'm not considering it. But that's a personal choice.


----------



## ClieOS

Hooga said:


> Which Android version have you tested this on?
> 
> On Android 7 (Samsung S6) it does *_not_ *switch sampling frequencies automatically when using USB 2.0 neither by using Fiio app, Hiby Music, or UAPP as a player.



It depends a lot of the USB DAC and audio driver built into the smartphone. Older smartphone use default Android audio driver that is fairly limited. For example, many smartphones (*Samsung, Sony, HTC, etc) going back to 2015 used Qualcomm DAC chip that is capable of 24/192, but these smartphones generally only support UAC1.0 16/48 (and 16/44.1 will get resampled automatically to 16/48 internally) because they all use the same driver Android provided. Only till last few years that Samsung, Vivo, OPPO and Sony alike started to use their own custom driver in order to support UAC2.0, as Hi-res becomes somewhat of a standardized feature for Android smartphone.


----------



## Hooga

ClieOS said:


> It depends a lot of the USB DAC and audio driver built into the smartphone. Older smartphone use default Android audio driver that is fairly limited. For example, many smartphones (*Samsung, Sony, HTC, etc) going back to 2015 used Qualcomm DAC chip that is capable of 24/192, but these smartphones generally only support UAC1.0 16/48 (and 16/44.1 will get resampled automatically to 16/48 internally) because they all use the same driver Android provided. Only till last few years that Samsung, Vivo, OPPO and Sony alike started to use their own custom driver in order to support UAC2.0, as Hi-res becomes somewhat of a standardized feature for Android smartphone.



That "sounds" interesting. So it may be time for me to put a relatively updated ROM on my otherwise perfectly working and satisfactory S6? I'll dig into that.


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> put a relatively updated ROM on my otherwise perfectly working and satisfactory S6? I'll dig into that.


Just as a test, before you do that, install a demo version of Neutron media player on your phone.
connect your device, go to Neutron settings, find "Audio hardware" and make sure "generic Driver" is ticked.
also while in there make sure BTR5 is shown as device output.
Within Audio hardware section, you can change USB 1 and USB 2, make sure it is on 2.
see if it works right - and report.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> Just as a test, before you do that, install a demo version of Neutron media player on your phone.
> connect your device, go to Neutron settings, find "Audio hardware" and make sure "generic Driver" is ticked.
> also while in there make sure BTR5 is shown as device output.
> Within Audio hardware section, you can change USB 1 and USB 2, make sure it is on 2.
> see if it works right - and report.



Thank you for your support
- installed Neutron
- checkd generic driver, it was already ticked
- BTR5 is shown as output device
- could not find USB 1 / 2 switch on audio hw section

That said, it tested negative.
- First track: 16b/44.1K outputs right
- Second track: 24b/192K  BTR5 stuck on 16/44


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 2, 2020)

Hooga said:


> could not find USB 1 / 2 switch on audio hw section


Under "Audio Hardware" there is a "Direct USB Access" section , should be ticked - do a tap and hold on it to get to sub menu. make sure Digital is ticked and nothing else - BTW you can choose USB 1 in there.
do a tap and hold on generic driver, make sure "Hi-Res codec and Hi-res Bluetooth are ticked.
Also make sure "follow source frequency" is ticked.
If you need DSD, make sure it is ticked. Under DSD, native DSD should be ticked.
Neutron is very complicated, BUT what it does do, is peerless.
On mine everything worked, DSD and all the sampling frequencies.
interestingly, up to 4X oversampling improves the sound, but I am not sure your phone could manage, it is CPU intensive.


----------



## Poganin

Hooga said:


> When used via USB
> - battery life kinda sucks
> - internal EQ does not work
> - internal MIC does not work
> ...


Thank you, I will install the ASIO component in Foobar and use BTR5 in ASIO mode. Is it better than WASAPI?


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> Under "Audio Hardware" there is a "Direct USB Access" section , should be ticked - do a tap and hold on it to get to sub menu. make sure Digital is ticked and nothing else - BTW you can choose USB 1 in there.
> do a tap and hold on generic driver, make sure "Hi-Res codec and Hi-res Bluetooth are ticked.
> Also make sure "follow source frequency" is ticked.
> If you need DSD, make sure it is ticked. Under DSD, native DSD should be ticked.
> ...



Ok, all found and checked.
And yes, it does work a treat !   Thank you so much m8!!

So essentially all hw is ok, both BTR5 and S6 really.
Now the choice is to flash a more recent rom and keep using Hiby Music (they just released v. 3.3 with full dlna client controller feature builtin) which I find very handy and practical, or keep as is and adopt Neutron which seems having quite a learning curve tbh.
E.g.- I could easily link to my dlna server all ok but it looks like it _requires_ scanning the volumes to play anything. Apparently I can't just "browse dlna folders and play".


----------



## Kentajalli

yep, it needs to scan it once.
it can act as dlna server too, but I don't know how.
if your phone is working right, I say leave it.
a new ROM may fix something but break something else.
Neutron is cheap enough, and I doubt anything else out there can touch it for sheer facilities and purity of sound.
do enable 4x oversampling.
even on my Chord Mojo, you can hear an improvement.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> yep, it needs to scan it once.



I don't know if I have to fear more the time or the space it will take (!). I'll try and see what happens...



Kentajalli said:


> Neutron is cheap enough, and I doubt anything else out there can touch it for sheer facilities and purity of sound.
> do enable 4x oversampling.
> even on my Chord Mojo, you can hear an improvement.



I'll give it a try. 

Please tell me more about oversampling. Does that mean that we basically ask the App to bring all files resolutions (e.g. 44.1, 96) up to 192K before passing them to the dac ?


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 2, 2020)

Hooga said:


> I don't know if I have to fear more the time or the space it will take (!). I'll try and see what happens...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1- the scanning may take a little time, but won't take much space on phones storage, a Meg or two.
2- yes, if it is 44.1 it will become 192 . however, Neutron can simply output everything at any sampling frequency you set it out, lower or higher. but oversampling means, it actually calculates point within sampled data to genuinely make it a higher sampling rate, hence the improvements in sound.
try 2x first, see if you hear any changes.
btw, DSD out bypasses all sound processing.
hi-res BT means, it will output a genuine 24bit/96 to Ldac so that your phone don't have to.
I am all praise for Neutron.
it hasn't let me down in years.
I got my first copy on my Note 3, a few years ago.

Correction:
44.1 oversampled 4X becomes 176.4 and not 192 as I had mistakenly said before.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> hi-res BT means, it will output a genuine 24bit/96 to Ldac so that your phone don't have to.



Does that mean that it will send lossless flacs via bt, instead of using lossy bt codecs?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Hooga said:


> Does that mean that it will send lossless flacs via bt, instead of using lossy bt codecs?


No.
It means that it'll send flacs less lossy than the former bluetooth codecs.
Bluetooth transmission at this point is still lossy, but it depends on your "ability" to figure out the difference, at least between aptxHD and Ldac.


----------



## Hooga

Chris Kaoss said:


> Bluetooth transmission at this point is still lossy, but it depends on your "ability" to figure out the difference, at least between aptxHD and Ldac.



_Unfortunately,_ I do figure that out   Wish I didnt as it all would be much easier.
Ofc I'm talking about careful listening, in good isolation, of well mastered tracks, at high bit rates. 
MP3/320 listened to while commuting - with vs without BT I don't hear a difference.
However I do hear a difference on many 24/96 tracks vs their mp3 versions, and on 24/96 tracks USB vs LDAC on the BTR5.
Does that depend on BT lossy protocols "themselves" ?
Does that depend on BTR5 in particular, maybe having an imperfect BT implementation? Or what else?
I really don't know, it could be anything. 

I could make another test and I never did: I could hook BTR5 (or any other DAC) to my Tempotec V1 transport and BT-pair it with my pc. Then play the same files once from the PC via BT onto the V1, and another time from the V1 internal card. One of these days I'll try that.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

I do hear a difference on USB vs. Bluetooth too on my BTR5, with 16/44.1 flacs.

To by sure there's no other bias, did you convert your 24/96 to 320 mp3? Or did you made your comparison out of 2 different sources?

Would like to hear your findings with your test rig.


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> Does that mean that it will send lossless flacs via bt, instead of using lossy bt codecs?


as Chris had already said, the answer is NO.
how could it, the data rate for a flac of standard CD quality  is about 1400 killobits or so, LDAC has 990 at best.
imagine LDAC as a glorified MP3 ! it throws away bits of sound, it considers you wouldn't miss! this is how it tries to shove 24/96 into a tiny package of less than a 1000 kilobits.
this is called LOSSY - for this reason.


----------



## Hooga (Jun 3, 2020)

Sadly, Neutron helps circumvent BTR5"s annoying usb implementation on Android 7 but not on Hiby OS
When connecting it to my V1 the only way to change sampling rate is disconnecting /reconnecting the cable

EDIT: Turns out I have a been a sucker all this time.
The V1 has 3 options under "USB Mode":  Storage, Audio and Dock.
For whatever reason, the V1 player sw can address and "play onto" an external USB DAC  both when Audio and Dock are selected. 
But when connecting the BTR5 the "Dock" option provides wrong/incomplete usb handshaking and the sample rate lack of adaptation issue comes up. When using the "Audio" option it all goes OK.
A happy camper is here


----------



## michaelgordon

I have just received my BTR5, i like the sound and waiting for a balanced cable for my HD599 to try that out.  Are there any tips people can recommend to get the best out of the unit.  Ill be using bluetooth or USB OTG DAC from a oneplus 6T, it wont be used with anything else.


----------



## psikey (Jun 3, 2020)

michaelgordon said:


> I have just received my BTR5, i like the sound and waiting for a balanced cable for my HD599 to try that out.  Are there any tips people can recommend to get the best out of the unit.  Ill be using bluetooth or USB OTG DAC from a oneplus 6T, it wont be used with anything else.


Yes, dont use 3.5mm, just balanced. Big improvements to what I hear.

If using LDAC ensure set to 990kbps if your phone can feed a stable signal without dropouts and range still OK ( 660 better while mobile). I think android phones default to Adaptive.

If you don't want your phone to charge the BTR5 when using wired connection temporarily disable USB charging when connected via BTR5 panel.


----------



## michaelgordon

psikey said:


> Yes, dont use 3.5mm, just balanced. Big improvements to what I hear.
> 
> If using LDAC ensure set to 990kbps if your phone can feed a stable signal without dropouts and range still OK ( 660 better while mobile). I think android phones default to Adaptive.
> 
> If you don't want your phone to charge the BTR5 when using wired connection temporarily disable USB charging when connected via BTR5 panel.



Cheers, waiting for my balanced cable to arrive and i am using LDAC will have a play with those settings.


----------



## michaelgordon

another question, is it better in DAC mode wired?


----------



## Hooga (Jun 3, 2020)

michaelgordon said:


> another question, is it better in DAC mode wired?



short answer: yes

Please consider that while connected via USB cable
- internal EQ is not active  (that is not active when connected via BT/LDAC either, btw)
- internal MIC is not active


----------



## Hooga

Chris Kaoss said:


> Would like to hear your findings with your test rig.



So I made some quick tests

PC (MusicBee) -> BT -> V1 - USB - BTR5
vs
V1 (Hiby Music built-in) - USB - BTR5

Firstly, my PC only connects to V1 via Apt-X.  When playing whatever resolution FLAC file from my PC, the BTR5 receives/senses a 44.1K res only.
I tried to inquiry about if/how to change the BT codec, first findings is "this is a current Windows 10 limitation" (uhm... where did I read this already?)

Secondly, whatever file I play from the PC, sound pressure out from the BTR5 is 15-20% lower  vs when I play the exact same file locally on the V1.
For my audition tests I "levelled" the two sound pressures "by ear" so this is very inaccurate. I therefor tried to "overcompensate", that is, in doubt lowering the direct play volume even a tick more.

Thirdly, I purposefully chose single-ended output for this test, which notably is much less dynamic & detailed than balanced out on the BTR5.

All that said:

Playing a 24b/192K file locally vs sending it via Apt-X & downressing yields an _evidently _different output.

Comparing a 16b/44.1K original along the two paths is more subtle, but the difference is there, especially where it normally is when it's about compression: soundstage and trebles. So as always it's hardly annoying on the "messier tracks", while it comes up on good masters + acoustic music etc.


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 3, 2020)

Hooga said:


> So I made some quick tests
> 
> PC (MusicBee) -> BT -> V1 - USB - BTR5
> vs
> ...


remember BTR5 remembers volume settings for USB and BT independently , meaning direct USB , BT A/B test, may result in volume level differences.
secondly, CD quality, played through the right DAC is very capable indeed. 24/192 does improve sound only if original recording was made in super high quality.
the TEST :
take a fantastic sounding DSD, and rip it into flacs. one 16/44.1 and another 24/192.
Do an A/B test on the flacs. see if the difference is all that great.
use a good software, not just any crap.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> remember BTR5 remembers volume settings for USB and BT independently , meaning direct USB , BT A/B test, may result in volume level differences.
> secondly, CD quality, played through the right DAC is very capable indeed. 24/192 does improve sound only if original recording was made in super high quality.
> the TEST :
> take a fantastic sounding DSD, and rip it into flacs. one 16/44.1 and another 24/192.
> ...



In my test BTR5 was always and only fed by the V1 via USB. 
BT connection was in-between the PC and the V1 USB-hosting the BTR5, not directly onto the BTR5. 
So I reckon the reason why the play coming from a bt-received file was "less loud" can only have to do with the BT process itself. 

The difference between 16/44.1 and 24/192 _flacs, _both played locally, is not much
Here the difference was between 24/192 flac _converted into 16/44.1 by the BT transmission_,  and the same 24/192 flac played locally


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 3, 2020)

Hooga said:


> In my test BTR5 was always and only fed by the V1 via USB.
> BT connection was in-between the PC and the V1 USB-hosting the BTR5, not directly onto the BTR5.
> So I reckon the reason why the play coming from a bt-received file was "less loud" can only have to do with the BT process itself.
> 
> ...


BT is always lossy compressed, it may report it as 16/44.1 but it is not really, you see 1.4 Mb/s (CD quality flac) does not go through a hole at best 990Kb/s wide!
This is where LDAC, aptX (HD) comes in to further trim quality off the sound, in order to shove it through the tight available BT bandwidth.
Locally, no such thing happens.
You can not get FLAC untouched through BT - it is like saying I drive my car through a cycle lane, no matter if it is a Lexus 4X4 or citroen 2CV - cars do not fit in cycle lanes.
So I put it to you that 16/44.1 or otherwise BT is a misnomer - BT can mimick standard bitrate sample rate data, but never achieving it.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> BT is always lossy compressed, it may report it as 16/44.1 but it is not really, you see 1.4 Mb/s (CD quality flac) does not go through a hole at best 990Kb/s wide!
> This is where LDAC, aptX (HD) comes in to further trim quality off the sound, in order to shove it through the tight available BT bandwidth.
> Locally, no such thing happens.
> You can not get FLAC untouched through BT - it is like saying I drive my car through a cycle lane, no matter if it is a Lexus 4X4 or citroen 2CV - cars do not fit in cycle lanes.
> So I put it to you that 16/44.1 or otherwise BT is a misnomer - BT can mimick standard bitrate sample rate data, but never achieving it.



Sure! BTR5 reports 44.1 but (obviously) something must have unflated/reflated the file before to make it fit through the rabbit hole.

More in general, I surely agree on your point: numbers are numbers (I studied engineering, long ago  ).

That said, my question to myself is always "how much do those numbers make a difference on my ears and brain ?"
At the end of the day the purpose of my game is enjoying music not assessing technology 
What on specs paper is a difference of (just an example) 30% less in resolution... will that produce a 30% reduced _listening pleasure_? or a even 50% depletion? or just a 5% one ??
To answer that question there is no measuring tool other than the analog ones we've all been born with, including all our cultural biases for how un-scientific they are! 

Both numbers _and _direct assessment for now keep telling me that USB gives me a more pleasant result for a minimal extra effort vs BT.  Cable-free would be nice, that's true, but not worth the "lesser listening pleasure" cost, at least for _my _listening which 
- almost solely happens during quiet, relaxed time at home (no commuting, no gym, noisy places etc)
- mainly involves acoustic music namely bop, postbop, some avantgarde, and selected classical, all situations where soundstage and treble dynamics are key to perceived sound quality

Especially after solving its "sampling rate switch issue" with your help, I must say BTR5 yields a good "pleasure result".
Internal EQ apart, which is a detail, its main issue is too short autonomy (less than 4h) but in my case it does not impact that much - I can't remember last time I had 4 continued hours of allowed relax time tbh  

I'm still disappointed with Fiio for their dramatic lack of support, competence and earnestness when called for, and I doubt I will spend more money with them in the future but that's on another level. Luckily, they have great competitors.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Hooga said:


> Sure! BTR5 reports 44.1 but (obviously) something must have unflated/reflated the file before to make it fit through the rabbit hole.
> 
> More in general, I surely agree on your point: numbers are numbers (I studied engineering, long ago  ).
> 
> ...


I've recently joined this thread so I'm not sure what your disappointment with Fiio is in regards to, and I'm not saying it's not valid. From having owned several Fiio products in recent years and following those threads I have been impressed with the advice and support offered by one of their staff monitoring those threads. Have you tried messaging them directly?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The question to ask is, how good is the bluetooth hardware on your pc? 
Played some scenario with my BTR5 and my Surface Pro 7, horrible decision btw. ^^

The hardware on the Surface is really bad, compared to the bluetooth out of my V30, even if i force the V30 to use aptX ( for longevity ).
Don't know what they've done with the bluetooth stack. 

Thanks for your testing.


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 3, 2020)

Hooga said:


> Sure! BTR5 reports 44.1 but (obviously) something must have unflated/reflated the file before to make it fit through the rabbit hole.
> 
> More in general, I surely agree on your point: numbers are numbers (I studied engineering, long ago  ).
> 
> ...


Yes I am with you on the point that "do numbers matter that much?"
Bottom line is, the answer is yes and no! something like quantum physics and the Schrodinger’s cat - it matters only if you look.
I try to explain better, the humble vinyl LP has a best resolution of about 14 bits at about 48kHz (digital equivalents).
That is the best case scenario, assuming a pristine virgin LP played on a top player with best line-contact stylus. in reality it is much worse.
To most people a 'proper HiFi LP playback system' sounds better than Hi-res digital audio!!?? as demonstrated in many Hi-end shows that I have attended -
How could that be? if numbers are numbers - then it shouldn't.
My answer is, contrary to what is commonly assumed, digital music playback is far far more complex that meets the eye.
A word of warning to you, this thread is a bit of a "Fiio appreciation society" , you may get told off if you complain too much (I have been).
But in Fiio's defence, the poor little BTR5 is asked to do so much, so much , at any price level, let alone at under £100. This item is magic!
But is it the bees knees? well no! it understandably has its own glitches and flaws, but they are very limited.
You are talking to someone who has sent back his BTR5 for money back (No it wasn't broken) - but my reasons were very different. So although I didn't keep mine, I was never the less smitten by it.
I currently am happily listening to my Chord Mojo. it has no BT, no screen, no options on digital filtering, about four times the size and four times the weight. Gets hot while working and charging - it just does one thing, and it does it wonderfully - it plays music - the numbers (bit rate, sampling blah blah) are not your concern.
Did I mention it is four times the price also?
Ultimately, the humble 16/44.1 can sound wonderfully good - so when it doesn't, it is not the 24 bit or 192kHz or DSD that are not sufficient, it is the failure of the play back system and everything in the chain.
Once there is a shortcomming in that chain, you may be able to improve things by higher sampling rates, but you won't fix it!
It is not the numbers, but rather what can be done with those numbers.


----------



## Kentajalli

Chris Kaoss said:


> The question to ask is, how good is the bluetooth hardware on your pc?
> Played some scenario with my BTR5 and my Surface Pro 7, horrible decision btw. ^^
> 
> The hardware on the Surface is really bad, compared to the bluetooth out of my V30, even if i force the V30 to use aptX ( for longevity ).
> ...


If you have an LG V30, why would you need the BTR5?
That phone sounds really really good through it's own output.
I doubt if you can improve the sound in this manner.


----------



## d73b3e

Kentajalli said:


> If you have an LG V30, why would you need the BTR5?
> That phone sounds really really good through it's own output.
> I doubt if you can improve the sound in this manner.


In many cases, BTR5 gives better portability


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Kentajalli said:


> If you have an LG V30, why would you need the BTR5?
> That phone sounds really really good through it's own output.
> I doubt if you can improve the sound in this manner.


Sure.
I use the Fiio as a usb dac on my Surface and while doing car detailing, my hobby and second business. 
On bluetooth, i force the V30 in aptX mode to improve battery life. Ldac is to high to last the whole working day.


----------



## jsmiller58

Kentajalli said:


> If you have an LG V30, why would you need the BTR5?
> That phone sounds really really good through it's own output.
> I doubt if you can improve the sound in this manner.


I have same situation - v30 and BTR5.  Why use the BTR5?  I only use it in BT mode and only when I dont want to have the wires interfere with my phone.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> My answer is, contrary to what is commonly assumed, digital music playback is far far more complex that meets the eye.



Very possibly. And again I think psychological & cultural factors are part of the game too.
Legions of marketeers know since longtime that a certain color works better for a milk tetrapak box, and another color is best for a pasta package.
Same with sound: a certain "accent" offered by this or that gear might be "nicer" for you and "nastier" for me. Does this have anything to do with numbers in the specs? Little. This means that not necessarily something of "higher, cleaner sound quality" is received as "better" by you or me. Too bad for the engineer colleague having designed it, but that's how life is, and not only about audio 




Kentajalli said:


> A word of warning to you, this thread is a bit of a "Fiio appreciation society" , you may get told off if you complain too much (I have been).



Lol I think I noticed that, but thanks for the warning. What can I say? It's not my problem  I am not up to convincing anyone that Fiio is not a good vendor. I am convinced it is not and that's enough to me. I am also convinced that Fiat - sorry, FCA now - is not a good car maker and I don't buy cars from them, yet they make millions anyway. 



Kentajalli said:


> BTR5 is asked to do so much, so much , at any price level, let alone at under £100. This item is magic!



Very true. Which is the reason why, in spite of the disappointment about the company, I did not return it: what it has is worth its price and then some. Should it break I believe they would not support it, yet the good news is we are talking about something worth 100€ not 1000€, I can bin it just in case who cares.

Lastly I do know about other higher performance and cost DACs. It all goes down to usability (no the Mojo is too heavy for my tastes - before its price I mean), budget and time ofc. What I am currently eyeing as a nice formfactor / price / performance compromise is Hiby R3 Pro. One of these days.....


----------



## jsmiller58

Kentajalli said:


> Yes I am with you on the point that "do numbers matter that much?"
> Bottom line is, the answer is yes and no! something like quantum physics and the Schrodinger’s cat - it matters only if you look.
> I try to explain better, the humble vinyl LP has a best resolution of about 14 bits at about 48kHz (digital equivalents).
> That is the best case scenario, assuming a pristine virgin LP played on a top player with best line-contact stylus. in reality it is much worse.
> ...


I dont know about, and thus I won’t comment on the bulk of your post.  However...  LPs sounding better than good hi-res digital?  I don’t know who these “most people” are that you speak of.  But no, not to me.  And yes, I do come from a generation where LPs were the only way to get music.  And the radio.  CDs were quite an innovation by the time I was already an adult.  All to say I lived in that Audio world...  I will take this one, at least the hi-res version of it, anyway.  But, that is just my opinion, and I will respect that you have yours.


----------



## Kentajalli

Well I did say "as demonstrated during ..."
During London's Hi-end show in 2018. 
there was a demonstration done by appointment in a closed door hall, where they played a new LP version of few albums, compared with HDtracks digital version of the same.
the LP player, if I remember correctly was an SME turntable and some exotic MC cartridge. the DAC was a top of the line British made I can not recall, but it was around £5K.
the audience were normal visitors and a few known reviewers from the press.
about roughly 8 out of 10 of the crowd preferred the LP rendition , even though it was not as high a resolution as digital version. The LP was more music like! to me.
of course I am not knocking digital music at all, hi-res or otherwise.
My point was that playing digital right is a complex science that has not been perfected yet.
assuming we need higher and higher resolution samples to get the sound we desire, is false!
at the same show, if memory serves, in Audio Research room, they were playing standard CDs through a Dcs Rossini player with the clock mod. via AR own tube amps into a pair of Wilson speakers.
What I heard, was the best sound I have ever heard in my 40 odd years of HiFi pursuit .


----------



## hmscott

Hooga said:


> ...Which is the reason why, in spite of the disappointment about the company, I did not return it: what it has is worth its price and then some. Should it break I believe they would not support it, yet the good news is we are talking about something worth 100€ not 1000€, I can bin it just in case who cares


Just like a good pair of shoes, I always buy 2 or 3 for the time when the original finally wears out... 

I've bought 3 BTR5's, 2 original "black" editions and one "Realms of the Sky", perhaps they'll all last a long long time...

BTW, I thought my 1st BTR5 had died and I couldn't resurrect it, so I bought the 2nd BTR5 - while it was still coming from China my original BTR5 "woke up", so don't give up if similar happens to your BTR5...


----------



## Hooga (Jun 4, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Just like a good pair of shoes, I always buy 2 or 3 for the time when the original finally wears out...
> 
> I've bought 3 BTR5's, 2 original "black" editions and one "Realms of the Sky", perhaps they'll all last a long long time...
> 
> BTW, I thought my 1st BTR5 had died and I couldn't resurrect it, so I bought the 2nd BTR5 - while it was still coming from China my original BTR5 "woke up", so don't give up if similar happens to your BTR5...




I did this with my very first loved IEM, some years ago, being RE400  (beknown for their weak cable construction, I bought a second pair soon after the first).

On the DAC-AMP side, for how much I appreciate BTR5's sound in spite of the other shortcomings (bla bla I dont want to repeat here), my next step will be changing format: I'll leave the unbundled portable stack way and go back into the integral-DAP format. I dont have a budget for the purchase right now, if I did it would be an R3 Pro. Might be a different one upon budget availability time, who knows.

BTR5 (if still alive! ) would be "demoted" to "luxury BT box status" - read: "wife will steal that".


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> I did this with my very first loved IEM, some years ago, being RE400  (beknown for their weak cable construction, I bought a second pair soon after the first).
> 
> On the DAC-AMP side, for how much I appreciate BTR5's sound in spite of the other shortcomings (bla bla I dont want to repeat here), my next step will be changing format: I'll leave the unbundled portable stack way and go back into the integral-DAP format. I dont have a budget for the purchase right now, if I did it would be an R3 Pro. Might be a different one upon budget availability time, who knows.
> 
> BTR5 (if still alive! ) would be "demoted" to "luxury BT box status" - read: "wife will steal that".


just a suggestion.
since your phone may need replacing, this is a good time to kill two birds with one stone.
LG phones, from G6+ onwards (I think) do have headphone sockets and fantastic sounding quad DACs, that I would say beat any DAC up to £200 or maybe even higher. they also have generous storage and micro SD card slot.
I used to have one, and it sounded great.
Also I have heard Samsung Note 8 having excellent audio and native DSD .


----------



## hmscott

Hooga said:


> I did this with my very first loved IEM, some years ago, being RE400  (beknown for their weak cable construction, I bought a second pair soon after the first).
> 
> On the DAC-AMP side, for how much I appreciate BTR5's sound in spite of the other shortcomings (bla bla I dont want to repeat here), my next step will be changing format: I'll leave the unbundled portable stack way and go back into the integral-DAP format. I dont have a budget for the purchase right now, if I did it would be an R3 Pro. Might be a different one upon budget availability time, who knows.
> 
> BTR5 (if still alive! ) would be "demoted" to "luxury BT box status" - read: "wife will steal that".


For a very long time Sennheiser was the only source for BT dongles with Audiophile asperations, and I kept wearing them out - I went through 3 or 4, same with Plantronics BT headphones, and then Sony BT headphones - they all fall apart after a couple of years, and then they keep changing the models - I often preferred the older more solid construction models - the newer ones fall apart in a few months.  So I'm pre-programmed for BT device physical exhaustion.

I've got a FiiO M15 now, but I still have the BTR5 / BTR3k for more portable use - the M15 is a hunk of "iron" - it's a solid weight of density that plummets into the pocket.

It's nice to have the ultra light and portable BTR5 / BTR3k when I want to leave and quickly grab something to go... and now I'm "wearing out" IEM's and wired headphones - much less expensive and a lot more options to choose from.

Have fun


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Kentajalli said:


> Well I did say "as demonstrated during ..."
> During London's Hi-end show in 2018.
> there was a demonstration done by appointment in a closed door hall, where they played a new LP version of few albums, compared with HDtracks digital version of the same.
> the LP player, if I remember correctly was an SME turntable and some exotic MC cartridge. the DAC was a top of the line British made I can not recall, but it was around £5K.
> ...


Nice.
But for a real comparison, i want that test to be blind, without the visual bias of an estethic chain.


----------



## Kentajalli

Chris Kaoss said:


> Nice.
> But for a real comparison, i want that test to be blind, without the visual bias of an estethic chain.


nope, can't do!
surface noise would give the game away.
Indeed even knowing which one was which, people struggled to like digital better but somehow couldn't lie to themselves.
So, yeah - there was a bias, but mostly in digital favour.
still couldn't cut it.
If LP's weren't so cumbersome , CD's never would have taken off.
Originally the convenience of CD's won the day.
As I write this, I am listening to a new gadget I picked up at Costco, namely Marley get together Bluetooth speaker.
a simple SBC connection has no business sounding this good! hell with hi-res codecs.
the equipment and how it crunches those numbers, has a lot, lot more to do with sound quality than sampling rates or bit depth.


----------



## eclein

Hey folks just received BTR5 Titanium version from Amazon ($129). It was on my radar and the Titanium version sealed it.
I’m just streaming from an ipad pro to it via BT, and it sounds pretty dang good. I love the ESS SABRE sound and always go for equipment that uses it.
Heres a couple pics


----------



## ClieOS

Don't think it is actually titanium (*the metal) but aluminium anodized to titanium (= grey silver) color.


----------



## FiiO

eclein said:


> Hey folks just received BTR5 Titanium version from Amazon ($129). It was on my radar and the Titanium version sealed it.
> I’m just streaming from an ipad pro to it via BT, and it sounds pretty dang good. I love the ESS SABRE sound and always go for equipment that uses it.
> Heres a couple pics


----------



## michaelgordon

Since getting my new cans and this BTR5, ive gotten the bug again and looking at whats about upgrade wise, only a few days after getting these!

I have been looking at the Senn HD660s & Audeze LCD2 classics, im guessing the BTR5 wont get the best out of them so started looking at dac/amps but never really dabbled in them, i had a mojo and a HA2 at one point a few years ago but thats about it.  So started looking at DAPS and the M11 and R6 pro would these be significatly better than the phone/BTR5 combo in dac mode, im not bothering with bluetooth any more..

my question, would i really benefit going this way as i only really listen to CDs ripped into FLAC and occasionally spotify, im thinking about Tidal.  I'm enjoying the HD599 through the BTR5 but i know there is better out there but would i hear it?


----------



## Hooga

michaelgordon said:


> Since getting my new cans and this BTR5, ive gotten the bug again and looking at whats about upgrade wise, only a few days after getting these!



What's bug ?




michaelgordon said:


> So started looking at DAPS and the M11 and R6 pro would these be significatly better than the phone/BTR5 combo in dac mode



R6Pro is _3 leagues_ above BTR5 as a dac-amp (pricing included ofc).
Only talking about power, R6Pro outputs 750mW per channel @ 32Ohm impedance on BE, vs BTR5's 240mW
Quality wise it runs circles around most of its direct (dap) competitors. Having personally checked R3, R3Pro, R5 and R6 Pro I would frankly not look elsewhere, in general, for a DAP (choosing amongst the various models depending on budget and requirements).
R6Pro is quite expensive and - not secondarily - _heavy,_ though.

What impedance are your cans ?


----------



## michaelgordon

Hooga said:


> What's bug ?
> 
> What impedance are your cans ?



The headphone / audio gear buying bug.

the LCd2 are 70 Ohm, 660s 150Ohm and the HD5999 which i actually have are 50.  Im on 40/60 on low gain for casual listening + or - about 5 from this.


----------



## Hooga

I hadn't caught the joke 

On your point, my humble suggestions follow.

Firstly, given your info you do not seem to have any power upgrade need.
Going for a DAP vs phone+BTR5 is a pure apriori choice about the general device format.

In terms of which model to choose, again given your info regarding your cans, _powerwise_ you wuold be just about content with an R3 Pro, which has +-15% less amping power than BTR5 therefore more then enough for you. 

The reason why I recommend it is that in my personal view it's just a gem. 
Hardware wise it's on par or above other brand's models. Dual CS43131, good battery, and all the usual specs like DSD up to 256, PCM up to 32/384, bla bla.
Most importantly, on even or better hw conditions, is that software wise Hiby Music is to me hands down the absolute best music player sw in the league of the hard-bundled, non-replaceable ones. 
All this in 95 grams.

In terms of price/features the R5 is probably an even better value as, in addition to what R5Pro has, it gives you
- full android on board = the possibility to add "one or two" (not more!) third party apps if you wish (e.g. Neutron if you want to go the hypertech way)
- DLNA Client Controller capability (vs mere DLNA Client target on the R3Pro) 
- twice the amping power, just in case...
the downsides, price apart:
- BT4.2 vs 5.0 but who cares about that right? 
- 4.4 bal connector instead of the usual 2.5 
- 160grams vs 95

All of the above said, one important thing should be added and is attention to specific pairing. But this you will only discover by actually trying.
Just an example: some time ago I spent some time with a pair of FH7, an R3Pro and an R6Pro. Same song files on both.
Put them up on the R3Pro, press play. Fantastic delivery. I mean it. 
Put them up on the R6Pro, listen to the very same songs. No comparison. An unbelievable further quantity of detail.
Did the same trick with a pair of E4000. Almost zero difference while passing from R3Pro and R6Pro.

Good luck


----------



## michaelgordon

Really appreciate your in depth post @Hooga id looked at but not really considered the R3 pro as i didnt think it would be powerful enough to drive the 660s or the classics, if im reading right would the BTR5 be powerful enough to drive them if the R3 has less power i could save some cash not getting a player and fund the headphones but i do like the idea of keeping phone separate. 

 Looks like i cant get a R3 pro in the UK at the moment and the R5 is the same price as the Fiio M11 and id like to stick to that budget £400 ish.

Having said all of that ive been listening with the BTR5 and HD599s and listened to the blackening by machine head and its never sounded better even when i had Oppo PM3s, Audeze SINE and a mojo/phone or Cayin N6.


----------



## Hooga

michaelgordon said:


> Really appreciate your in depth post @Hooga id looked at but not really considered the R3 pro as i didnt think it would be powerful enough to drive the 660s or the classics, if im reading right would the BTR5 be powerful enough to drive them if the R3 has less power i could save some cash not getting a player and fund the headphones but i do like the idea of keeping phone separate.
> 
> Looks like i cant get a R3 pro in the UK at the moment and the R5 is the same price as the Fiio M11 and id like to stick to that budget £400 ish.
> 
> Having said all of that ive been listening with the BTR5 and HD599s and listened to the blackening by machine head and its never sounded better even when i had Oppo PM3s, Audeze SINE and a mojo/phone or Cayin N6.



BTR5 is indeed a hell of a powerful toy, especially for its size. 
In the area of "small dacs for phone", the sole upgrade I see around to BTR5 is E1DA 9038SG3. 

I myself like you am actually eyeing a DAP to directly-upgrade my antique X3-III after the "diversion" I took with a BTR5 recently  
I think I'll get an R3Pro, not sure yet. My "hungriest" beast to drive is Final E5000, and i tested it more than OK on it so I'm fine. Got no overears.

By the way 400 pounds for an R5 seems too much. 
It's $299 on Hiby's direct shop. Ok add shipping and duties, 400 quids still sound odd.


----------



## michaelgordon

id not looked direct, your right, even with fees only £288 or £190 for the Red R3, which i really like the look


----------



## Hooga

michaelgordon said:


> id not looked direct, your right, even with fees only £288 or £190 for the Red R3, which i really like the look



Watch out: R3 is different than R3Pro. The latter is the good one.  (R3 was good too, but "surpassed" now)


----------



## eclein

My new toy makes my Audeze SINE light up and sound great...finally! Lots of new power increases in my recent gear, the BTR5’s arrival yesterday was my biggest as far as SINE cans go. Plenty of power on high gain, easily makes me smile as my SINES have always been beasts to get going and open up....love this thing. Highly recommended to my friends this thing cruises and I haven’t even used the software options available to compliment it and think I’ll enjoy it just fine like this! I’m sending my FIIO M6 to my son so he can enjoy it like I did.


----------



## archy121

So I bought this USB C splitter from AE hoping I could connect BTR5 to LGV30* via usb and keep it charging - Didn’t work.


Anyone come across a working solution ?

* Yep USB BTR5 is better than LG V30 to my ears. In fact for me BT LDAC combined with Balanced OUT is better than LG V30 with single out.

Only time I now bother to use LG v30 directly with headphones is when listening to above 24/96 material like DSD Tidal MQA.


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 5, 2020)

archy121 said:


> So I bought this USB C splitter from AE hoping I could connect BTR5 to LGV30* via usb and keep it charging - Didn’t work.
> 
> 
> Anyone come across a working solution ?
> ...


https://www.ebay.co.uk/vod/FetchOrderDetails?itemId=254571942130&transactionId=2616420041015
this one does. it charges the phone only though.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1loAAOSw5uZekbFh/s-l400.jpg
Also, I believe V30 is capable of Upto 2X DSD  itself. it is not limited to 24/96.
furthermore, it has wireless charging, so with a wireless charger you wouldn't need a splitter .
perhaps you need a more capable player to get the best out of your V30, specially if it sounds worse than the dongle.


----------



## archy121

Kentajalli said:


> https://www.ebay.co.uk/vod/FetchOrderDetails?itemId=254571942130&transactionId=2616420041015
> this one does. it charges the phone only though.
> https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1loAAOSw5uZekbFh/s-l400.jpg
> Also, I believe V30 is capable of Upto 2X DSD  itself. it is not limited to 24/96.
> ...



Yes V30 can go higher than 24/96 but I prefer to use the BTR5 up to this limit of LDAC. I find the Balanced out combined with LDAC is equally good if not better than using the V30 DAC. Plus there is convenience of being wireless. I believe the BTR5‘s Balanced output is making a big difference to the sound.

Of course using the USB to BTR5 with balanced out is even better to my ears. Unfortunately both the phone and BTR5 battery drains too fast connected this way. This is why i am looking into a device to allow playback and charging of both simultaneously. I have a wireless charger but it would be more practical to use a wired solution and be able to move the phone around.V30 is actually my dedicated MP rather than a phone.

The V30 is rooted to run in high impedance mode all the time and I use the UAPP as the main player app. I think that’s good as it gets. 
I’m using it with DM6 on Balanced out & FidelioX2. V30 offers great sound quality and best of all it offers full MQA unfolding and a battery that lasts well. Even so, up to 24/96 quality I prefer the wireless convenience and sound from the BTR5. 

My two biggest wishes for BTR5 would be full MQA unfolding support and improved battery.  
(@FiiO  hint)


----------



## Hooga

archy121 said:


> Of course using the USB to BTR5 with balanced out is even better to my ears. Unfortunately both the phone and BTR5 battery drains too fast connected this way.
> (@FiiO  hint)



This sounds odd to me. Are you perhaps leaving Charge = ON  on the BTR5?

Per my direct experience, BTR5's battery lasts +- 4hours (a tad less actually, more 3h50) when 
- playing a mixsture of 16/44 and 24/96 flacs
- connected to source via USB
- Charge=OFF,
- balanced output is used, approx 30/60 vol level.

When Charge = OFF, the source is not taxed for power at all.

So unless you are using some hyper-consuming features on your phone's music player (e.g. Neutron's Oversampling) you should not experience any significant higher power drain from your phone vs playing without the BTR attached.


----------



## FiiO (Jun 15, 2020)

archy121 said:


> Yes V30 can go higher than 24/96 but I prefer to use the BTR5 up to this limit of LDAC. I find the Balanced out combined with LDAC is equally good if not better than using the V30 DAC. Plus there is convenience of being wireless. I believe the BTR5‘s Balanced output is making a big difference to the sound.
> 
> Of course using the USB to BTR5 with balanced out is even better to my ears. Unfortunately both the phone and BTR5 battery drains too fast connected this way. This is why i am looking into a device to allow playback and charging of both simultaneously. I have a wireless charger but it would be more practical to use a wired solution and be able to move the phone around.V30 is actually my dedicated MP rather than a phone.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback. But the MQA support may not be added for the BTR5. We will try to add the support in our later DAC product. Stay tuned.
Best regards


----------



## Hooga

FiiO said:


> But the MQA support may be added for the BTR5.



Before adding new features, you should fix bugs maybe? E.g. have the internal EQ work on USB and possibly LDAC connection ?


----------



## ClieOS

Hooga said:


> Before adding new features, you should fix bugs maybe? E.g. have the internal EQ work on USB and possibly LDAC connection ?



Dunno about LDAC but the current EQ is not going to work on USB DAC mode. This is due to hardware limitation (or more precisely how the hardware is implemented on BTR5) and not because of any bug.


----------



## michaelgordon

FiiO said:


> But the MQA support may be added for the BTR5.



Yes, please add MQA


----------



## Kentajalli

ClieOS said:


> Dunno about LDAC but the current EQ is not going to work on USB DAC mode. This is due to hardware limitation (or more precisely how the hardware is implemented on BTR5) and not because of any bug.


I very much recommend to use the player's EQ function, if you need some.
I believe Fiio only put it there to help with sources such as TV, or a phone call.
by that policy, usb input and hi-res codecs such as LDAC do not benefit from it. hence for purity of sound the internal EQ is disabled, as it should.
my understanding is, that this is by design , not a shortcoming.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

michaelgordon said:


> Yes, please add MQA


I doubt that there'll be mqa support on the Btr5.
As i didn't misread, it'll come with a new device. 
It's a license thing that'll prevent Mqa support on Btr5, i guess.


----------



## ClieOS

Chris Kaoss said:


> I doubt that there'll be mqa support on the Btr5.
> As i didn't misread, it'll come with a new device.
> It's a license thing that'll prevent Mqa support on Btr5, i guess.



iFi retrospectively added MQA support to their DAC/amp via firmware update, so licensing is not an issue as long as FiiO is willing to pay the relevant fee and has the minimum hardware to support it (*which BTR5 does have). But whether it is cost effective to do so is another matter - given MQA is only going to be supported in USB DAC mode (*as it is not compatible with bluetooth) so BT user will not benefit from it, besides the fact that not everyone subscribed to MQA supported streaming service.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

ClieOS said:


> iFi retrospectively added MQA support to their DAC/amp via firmware update, so licensing is not an issue as long as FiiO is willing to pay the relevant fee and has the minimum hardware to support it (*which BTR5 does have). But whether it is cost effective to do so is another matter - given MQA is only going to be supported in USB DAC mode (*as it is not compatible with bluetooth) so BT user will not benefit from it, besides the fact that not everyone subscribed to MQA supported streaming service.


Thanks for pointing to that fact.
Didn't know they've done this in the past. 

Have a great day.
Chris


----------



## Hinomotocho

I don't see any USB C to USB C cables made by Fiio, odd. I tried a C>B adapter on their CL06 but it must be for charging only. Has anyone got a link to a cable I can use to connect my BTR5 to my S10 please?


----------



## hmscott

Hinomotocho said:


> I don't see any USB C to USB C cables made by Fiio, odd. I tried a C>B adapter on their CL06 but it must be for charging only. Has anyone got a link to a cable I can use to connect my BTR5 to my S10 please?


I use 2 different cables, one FiiO, one DD.  Here's is where I find them now - they go in and out of stock:

DD TC05 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6 10 cm
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJZBYVH

FiiO LT-TC1 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable for K3/M9/M11/M5/BTR5
https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-lt...ecoding-cable-for-fiio-k3-m9-m11-m5-btr5-btr3

I've also successfully used the Nintendo Switch USB-C to USB-C controller cable's


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 10, 2020)

hmscott said:


> I use 2 different cables, one FiiO, one DD.  Here's is where I find them now - they go in and out of stock:
> 
> DD TC05 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6 10 cm
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJZBYVH
> ...


Thank you very much. 
They were trying to charge me almost 4x the amount for shipping to my country, I found it on AliExpress free shipping if anyone is in the same situation.


----------



## hmscott

Hinomotocho said:


> Thank you very much.
> They were trying to charge me almost 4x the amount for shipping to my country, I found it on AliExpress free shipping if anyone is in the same situation.


What links?  For those looking to purchase off of AliExpress?


----------



## michaelgordon

i now have my LCD-2 Classics and connected to the BTR5 it sounds nice via LDAC.  on 3.5mm high gain was up to about 55 volume but didnt want to run it that high.  Got my balanced cable plugged in and the first noticeable difference was the volume, that was LOUD luckily didnt have the on, not sure of any improvement in SQ as only really tested the 3.5 as im not going to use it.  Got to about 45 H volume yesterday which was just for a bit.  I'm currently on DAC from phone 38 H as i plan on listening to them for most of the day while working.  Im very impressed, they sound really good but i can tell there is more yet to come out.  Will be interesting when i get my Topping E30 & Schiit Heresy to see the difference but for now im happy.


----------



## Hooga

hmscott said:


> What links?  For those looking to purchase off of AliExpress?



https://ddhifi.it.aliexpress.com/store/4673052?spm=0.8937474.0.0.366d2e0eudeKd9


----------



## Hinomotocho

hmscott said:


> What links?  For those looking to purchase off of AliExpress?


Hooga has already shared it, but I just did a search for the same name and got it.


----------



## hmscott

Hooga said:


> https://ddhifi.it.aliexpress.com/store/4673052?spm=0.8937474.0.0.366d2e0eudeKd9





Hinomotocho said:


> Hooga has already shared it, but I just did a search for the same name and got it.


Thank you both, that's what I was looking for: the DD Official Store on Aliexpress 
https://ddhifi.aliexpress.com/store/4673052?spm=a2g0o.store_home.1000001.12.780169545i2a16

Here in the US it takes a very long time to get packages shipped via the AliExpress free shipping, and the DHL path is usually too expensive unless the AliExpress store pairs up with DHL and subsidizes the costs - like the BTR5 "Realm of the Sky" edition I bought from FiiO which only took a few days to arrive.

I received URUAV 1S Lipo's I ordered May 4th and arrived on June 6th... in a paper envelope... very dangerous way to ship Lipo batteries.  Fortunately they were wrapped in bubble wrap and made it through the trip ok, although one of the boxes was crushed on one side the Lipo's weren't damaged, but they easily could have been.  Also the package wasn't labeled as having Lipo's - no hazardous material warnings.

In that time I bought batteries from local US dealers and they were shipped triple boxed - with the appropriate hazmat warning labels, and they arrived in 2-7 days - also free shipping.

If I can get the same products for the same or even cheaper prices in the US, much quicker and shipped safer, it's tough to wait for the slow boat from China - AliExpress.

Here's that DD TCO5 cable from AliExpress @ $11.90:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961312907.html?spm=a2g0o.store_home.productList_12878253.pic_2

And, here's the same cable through Amazon @ $7.90:
https://www.amazon.com/TC05-Audio-Decoding-Cable-BTR1K/dp/B07PJZBYVH

If I were in Europe I'd imagine AliExpress would be more attractive.


----------



## Karkasi

Hi all,

Sorry if my question is too dumb. I am new to Dac/Amp topic. I am thinking of buying either BTR5 or Fiio E10K. Both are in same price range (almost). I love to have Bluetooth capability and not to have to deal with a lot of wires all the time but I am just afraid of losing quality because of it. Is BTR5 gonna give me same sound quality as E10K. One caveat is that, none of my devices (laptop/phone) are at the moment BT 5.0. Will that downgrade the performance of BTR5 even further. 

I thank a lot the experts in advance!


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 11, 2020)

Karkasi said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry if my question is too dumb. I am new to Dac/Amp topic. I am thinking of buying either BTR5 or Fiio E10K. Both are in same price range (almost). I love to have Bluetooth capability and not to have to deal with a lot of wires all the time but I am just afraid of losing quality because of it. Is BTR5 gonna give me same sound quality as E10K. One caveat is that, none of my devices (laptop/phone) are at the moment BT 5.0. Will that downgrade the performance of BTR5 even further.
> 
> I thank a lot the experts in advance!



It has nothing to do with whether your laptop has BT5.0 or not, as BT5.0 and BT4.2 have exactly the same spec on wireless audio transmission  The problem is, most built-in BT on PC only supports basic codec such as SBC and AAC, some (*rare) might have aptX. To get a really decent SQ, you will need aptX-HD. You can buy USB dongle that add aptX-HD to your PC, but that's gonna add on to the cost.This means you will likely take a hit on SQ when using PC built-in BT as source. Smartphone however is a different story, as most of them should have aptX-HD as well as LDAC supported, unless it is a particularly old model.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 12, 2020)

Karkasi said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry if my question is too dumb. I am new to Dac/Amp topic. I am thinking of buying either BTR5 or Fiio E10K. Both are in same price range (almost). I love to have Bluetooth capability and not to have to deal with a lot of wires all the time but I am just afraid of losing quality because of it. Is BTR5 gonna give me same sound quality as E10K. One caveat is that, none of my devices (laptop/phone) are at the moment BT 5.0. Will that downgrade the performance of BTR5 even further.
> 
> I thank a lot the experts in advance!


If you were to use your phone I think you would be happy with the sound quality. I prefer cables to get the best quality and eliminate any interruption but for convenience sometimes I use bluetooth and it surprises me how good it sounds. If using android USB Audio Player or Neutron is very good, for iPhone I don't know.
Perhaps people's experience with Bluetooth range varies but I don't think the BTR5 has the longest range, but if it's close to the source it will be fine.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

If you want to go with bluetooth, the BTR5 is the way to go.
The E10K is a USB/Coax Dac and doesn't has bluetooth.
You can use the BTR5 as an USB-Dac too.
This is what i do wired to my Surface Pro.

The benefit of the E10K is the "big" jog-wheel for volume adjustment and the bass boost option.
It also has 3 times the power of the BTR5 single ended.
While the BTR5 balanced is on par power wise.

Don't hesitate with bluetooth 5.0.
That's only necessary for power saving and maybe stability of the connection.
It doesn't affect the audio codecs that much.
While the bluetooth on the Btr5 is great, it depends a lot of the source device.
As i said earlier in this thread, bluetooth connection with my Surface is a mess, especially when my bluetooth mouse Logitech Master MX is used at the same time. Then i've had a lot of drop outs in music playback. 

Best way to pair the BTR5 with a pc/laptop is via USB connection, ime.


----------



## michaelgordon

So a question i plugged the BTR5 into my laptop to use as a USB DAC as ive not done that before and the volume increased quite substantially over the usb dac from the phone.  What would the reason be for this?  Is the laptop providing more power or better sound source?  Ive just purchased a seperate DAC & AMP and wondering if i will actually need them.  Will sound quality improve with the dedicated equipment?


----------



## hmscott (Jun 12, 2020)

michaelgordon said:


> So a question i plugged the BTR5 into my laptop to use as a USB DAC as ive not done that before and the volume increased quite substantially over the usb dac from the phone.  What would the reason be for this?  Is the laptop providing more power or better sound source?  Ive just purchased a seperate DAC & AMP and wondering if i will actually need them.  Will sound quality improve with the dedicated equipment?


The BTR5 maintains volume settings for BT / USB DAC mode independently - set them both to the same "number" then they should be close together - don't forget to set the Gain to the same setting too. 

On your PC / phone set the output volume to 100%, control the volume with the BTR5 - same for BT and USB DAC mode.  The best signal to noise result is from 100% output.

Especially if your phone / PC have different % source output settings will you hear a volumetric difference.

If you have Apt-x / LDAC the BT can sound as good as USB DAC mode, but I prefer wired (USB DAC mode) too.


----------



## Hooga

Quick question: is the Volume Pot on the BTR5 a logarithmic or linear control ?


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 13, 2020)

Hooga said:


> Quick question: is the Volume Pot on the BTR5 a logarithmic or linear control ?


it is a log.
volume controls are always log.
and it is digital I believe, analog ones are expensive.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> it is a log.
> volume controls are always log.
> and it is digital I believe, analog ones are expensive.



teach me: what's the difference between analog and digital ?


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> teach me: what's the difference between analog and digital ?


digital is when the data is processed before it goes to dac, to alter the volume. you get precise control and channel balance, and it is cheap and simple (similar to player's volume control), what you sacrifice is resolution . technically speaking you loose bits , meaning a 16bit track, can become 10 or even less bits.
Analog is when the signal is reduced after dac has finished with it.
it is done by a variable resistor (pot) or a switched resistance ladder, which can be controlled by logic circuit .
this way resolution technically remains intact, but it is not as precise, and maintaining channel balance difficult .
good switched ladders are very good indeed, but not cheap.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> digital is when the data is processed before it goes to dac, to alter the volume. you get precise control and channel balance, and it is cheap and simple (similar to player's volume control), what you sacrifice is resolution . technically speaking you loose bits , meaning a 16bit track, can become 10 or even less bits.
> Analog is when the signal is reduced after dac has finished with it.
> it is done by a variable resistor (pot) or a switched resistance ladder, which can be controlled by logic circuit .
> this way resolution technically remains intact, but it is not as precise, and maintaining channel balance difficult .
> good switched ladders are very good indeed, but not cheap.



thank you !


----------



## fytize

@FiiO when connecting the BTR5 to a macbook pro to use as a USB-DAC, does the BTR5 only support 44.1kHz/16bit?  On the BTR5 display, it always show 44.1kHz--no matter the source.  Also, you can't change the rate in the audio MIDI setup in the settings.  What is causing this limitation?


----------



## Karkasi

Chris Kaoss said:


> If you want to go with bluetooth, the BTR5 is the way to go.
> The E10K is a USB/Coax Dac and doesn't has bluetooth.
> You can use the BTR5 as an USB-Dac too.
> This is what i do wired to my Surface Pro.
> ...


Thank you and thank all for the valuable comments.


----------



## lucasd

Kentajalli said:


> it is a log.
> volume controls are always log.
> and it is digital I believe, analog ones are expensive.


I think every saber dac has variable gain amplifier.
So control volume is analog on BTR5 and you have two different gain setting (low and high). Whether it is log it depends on design. The same goes for pots in amplifiers, the designer can choose linear, log or some hybrid.

However if you lower volume on phone/ computer it will be digital and degrade sound. Hence not recommended!


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 14, 2020)

http://www.esstech.com/index.php/download_file/view/70/267/
this is ESS article on digital vs analog volume controls.
ESS  incorporate digital volume control, but since the DAC is a 32 bit then volume control is more precise.
indeed volume control on Neutron music player, is 64 bit software! so it is even better.
but purists always go for analog . there are switched array resistor volume controls on a chip (logic controlled) with true 24 bit performance, but are expensive.
BTW linear volume control does not work.
Volume control is Log , always.
that is how our hearing works.


----------



## Hooga (Jun 14, 2020)

lucasd said:


> I think every saber dac has variable gain amplifier.
> So control volume is analog on BTR5 and you have two different gain setting (low and high). Whether it is log it depends on design. The same goes for pots in amplifiers, the designer can choose linear, log or some hybrid.
> 
> However if you lower volume on phone/ computer it will be digital and degrade sound. Hence not recommended!



Thank you.
So (to see if I understood properly) the best practice with BTR5 is: keep source volume pot on its Max position, and only use BTR5's volume pot to adjust sound pressure.
This way we have no degradation at the input level, nor at the output as ES-builtin volume is digital analog. (???)
Correct?

@Kentajalli   by the way this is ESS9218P spec sheet, where they mention


64-bit accumulator & 32-bit processing⦁ Distortion free signal processing

so let me guess: volume (gain/attenuation) management inside the BTR5 is managed via ESS built-in features, which is indeed _digital_ but with 64bit space available to make sure rounding is taken into account up to 32bit input data (which is its max decodind capacity anyway) ?


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> Thank you.
> So (to see if I understood properly) the best practice with BTR5 is: keep source volume pot on its Max position, and only use BTR5's volume pot to adjust sound pressure.
> This way we have no degradation at the input level, nor at the output as ES-builtin volume is digital analog. (???)
> Correct?
> ...


this is all academic . 32bit processing is good enough for volume control.
and the rest of BTR5 circuit quality does not merit an analog volume control.
I don't believe the software volume control of a proper music player is any different to ESS volume control.
my answer was an academic one, in an ultra hifi setup, an analog volume control may be preferable - but not here.
even ESS in their own paper admit analog is better than digital - just scroll to the end of the paper.


----------



## lucasd (Jun 14, 2020)

Hooga said:


> Thank you.
> So (to see if I understood properly) the best practice with BTR5 is: keep source volume pot on its Max position, and only use BTR5's volume pot to adjust sound pressure.
> This way we have no degradation at the input level, nor at the output as ES-builtin volume is digital analog. (???)
> Correct?
> ...


_The ES9218P’s integrated SABRE Headphone Amp supports up to 2.0Vrms output *with analog gain control* to reduce output noise at real-life listening levels_

Volume control is analog on btr5 (unless they designed it wrongly) on phone digital.
Hence keep source at max.

Also hearing is log, but I know which pots I used when I build my own lamp headphone amplifier or speaker amplifier...

P.S> More of sabre spec, we have two of those in balanced so we can get 4Vrms

*2.0Vrms output with analog gain control*⦁ Supports High-impedance headphones
⦁ Professional line-level output
⦁ *Analog gain ensures low noise at all volume levels*
⦁ Eliminates external thin film resistors and reduces PCB size


----------



## Kentajalli

lucasd said:


> _The ES9218P’s integrated SABRE Headphone Amp supports up to 2.0Vrms output *with analog gain control* to reduce output noise at real-life listening levels_
> 
> Volume control is analog on btr5 (unless they designed it wrongly) on phone digital.
> Hence keep source at max.
> ...


OK, I think I got it.
looking at the block diagram of 9218p, I can see what they mean by "analog gain control" .
the method chosen by Sabre (if I am not mistaken) is to control the volume by controlling the feedback on the amp block. 
this is not an analog volume control, but as they correctly named it, analog gain control.
it is a workaround , how effective it is I wouldn't like to comment.
but they are right, this method does reduce overall noise, but at what price - it is debatable .
negative feed back is a controversial topic in hifi, and using it as a means of volume control is arguable.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> this is all academic . 32bit processing is good enough for volume control.



...why?
Even academically speaking, what you say seems logical to me insofar as we talk about streaming 16b or 24b files via a 32b channel.
But if we want to play 32b "originals" we should have a >32b "channel" to carry the compensation too. 
If not, then I did not understand (which is very possible!)


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> ...why?
> Even academically speaking, what you say seems logical to me insofar as we talk about streaming 16b or 24b files via a 32b channel.
> But if we want to play 32b "originals" we should have a >32b "channel" to carry the compensation too.
> If not, then I did not understand (which is very possible!)


the scope of the topic was digital volume control vs analog .32 bit digital volume control is very powerful.
bear in mind, even in a lab environment , with the highest quality recording gear, recording a true 32 bit audio is nigh impossible . even true 24 bit is very very difficult , never mind reproducing it.
So the question becomes an academic one, because it is impractical .


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> the scope of the topic was digital volume control vs analog .32 bit digital volume control is very powerful.
> bear in mind, even in a lab environment , with the highest quality recording gear, recording a true 32 bit audio is nigh impossible . even true 24 bit is very very difficult , never mind reproducing it.
> So the question becomes an academic one, because it is impractical .



Ok I think I'm on your page then. You are fundamentally saying that 24bit let alone 32bit recordings are useless exaggerations, therefore the sole interestingly arguable case is 16bit data - which have ample "digital error compensation" headroom available on a 32bit chip. That makes sense.

Let me ask you a further question for completeness though.
Let's move to a different scenario: 
Device A is a pure transport (a pc, a phone...) with a digital music player (musicbee, uapp, neutron...) -> USB -> DAC
The DAC is a "dumb" one, i.e. it does _not_ offer a user-accessible "volume pot".

Always if I understand properly, the way to "manage sound pressure" in this scenario is only actioning upon the Digital Player sw volume pot, which is by definition a digital intervention.
Question: is this possibly a good reason to "upsample" at the Digital Player sw level? 
Or is there another / no way to compensate for the digital attenuation error, and an external-dumb-dac scenario shall always by definition be affected by that ?


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 14, 2020)

Hooga said:


> Ok I think I'm on your page then. You are fundamentally saying that 24bit let alone 32bit recordings are useless exaggerations, therefore the sole interestingly arguable case is 16bit data - which have ample "digital error compensation" headroom available on a 32bit chip. That makes sense.
> 
> Let me ask you a further question for completeness though.
> Let's move to a different scenario:
> ...


I think you have misunderstood the issue.
A through read of the document I provided the link for, put together by ESS themselves, explains the situation mostly. It does not cover everything, and everything is a very big word!
digital att. error is so tiny here, it is almost not an issue!
To go to your question, YES, the only way is to use the player's volume control (the word POT is short for Potentiometer which is an analog device).
The DAC accepts data in 32bit chunks, and if the architecture and output is atleast 32bit, the volume control would have negligible errors.
Let me explain it this way:
Imagine you have a 300W amplifier, plugged into speakers that can go as loud as a jet taking off with the said 300W.
Now imagine you turn your volume down enough for the sound to be whisper loud! surely if you are close enough to speakers, you can hear some residual noise mixed with your music out of the speakers.
This is because the amp has a noise floor for its 300W output, say -100dB (which is very low). since the amp is meant to reproduce jet fighter noises at 130dB - at lower levels like 60dB, the noise floor becomes audible.
Now imagine if the amp had a noise floor of -130dB - at 60dB listening levels, you couldn't hear any noise.
32bit dacs have much lower noise levels, so even at -60dB listening levels noise is still beyond detectable by ears, but a 16bit DAC, you could pick it out.
Technically the only noise an analog volume control adds to system is electron noise which is very low.
A digital volume control is noise free! but since it operates by throwing away resolution bits, it makes noise floor more pronounced, but if it was 32bits, we can afford to throw away some bits with almost no penalty.
This is a deep argument.
But noise is only one issue, quantization error is another player here, but let's not open another pandora's box.
There is a company that argues, even a switched resistor ladder suffers from electron noise and resistor mismatch, so they sell a switched primary transformer to do the same job!
I think it is going too far.


----------



## FiiO

fytize said:


> @FiiO when connecting the BTR5 to a macbook pro to use as a USB-DAC, does the BTR5 only support 44.1kHz/16bit?  On the BTR5 display, it always show 44.1kHz--no matter the source.  Also, you can't change the rate in the audio MIDI setup in the settings.  What is causing this limitation?


Hi,

Please check whether you have switch the u-audio option in the BTR5 to USB2.0? And what's the sampling rate of your music files?

Best regards


----------



## fytize

FiiO said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please check whether you have switch the u-audio option in the BTR5 to USB2.0? And what's the sampling rate of your music files?
> 
> Best regards


The BTR5 was set to usb 2.0 and I was using Tidal Master


----------



## r31ya

Oh hey, barely a month. and now my Fiio BTR5 can't turn on.
Any suggestion on what to do?


----------



## thorhtpc

fytize said:


> @FiiO when connecting the BTR5 to a macbook pro to use as a USB-DAC, does the BTR5 only support 44.1kHz/16bit?  On the BTR5 display, it always show 44.1kHz--no matter the source.  Also, you can't change the rate in the audio MIDI setup in the settings.  What is causing this limitation?





FiiO said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please check whether you have switch the u-audio option in the BTR5 to USB2.0? And what's the sampling rate of your music files?
> 
> Best regards



I am also having this problem. My source files are 96kHz/24bit FLAC and ALAC files. I have downloaded the ALAC files to my iPhone, and they play at 96kHz when connected to the BTR5 with the USB camera adapter. So the iPhone plays the files at 96kHz, but the Mac only plays them at 44.1kHz. I have the BTR5 set to USB2.0.


----------



## lucasd

Kentajalli said:


> OK, I think I got it.
> looking at the block diagram of 9218p, I can see what they mean by "analog gain control" .
> the method chosen by Sabre (if I am not mistaken) is to control the volume by controlling the feedback on the amp block.
> this is not an analog volume control, but as they correctly named it, analog gain control.
> ...


All op-amp need negative feedback by design, otherwise their gain is very high (ideal is infinite).
Gain control is equivalent to analog volume control simply at other stage, but yeah changing gain also alter slightly other characteristics.

If you don't want feedback, you don't use op-amps and design other way, e.g. solid-state or tube lamps...


----------



## Kentajalli

All *AMPS *need negative feedback by design, otherwise their .........
............................................................. but yeah changing gain *THIS WAY* also *alter slightly other characteristics*.

If you don't want feedback *(WHEN DID i??)* , you don't use op-amps and design other way, e.g. solid-state *(E.G. CHIP BASED OP-AMPS)* or tube lamps  *(ALSO REQUIRES FEEDBACK)* ...


----------



## megabigeye

Hey @Kentajalli, @lucasd, and whomever else,
What you guys are discussing is interesting and I am enjoying reading it, but this thread should be for the discussion of the BTR5. You should move the discussion to it's own thread or a PM conversation.

Thanks.


----------



## Kentajalli

megabigeye said:


> Hey @Kentajalli, @lucasd, and whomever else,
> What you guys are discussing is interesting and I am enjoying reading it, but this thread should be for the discussion of the BTR5. You should move the discussion to it's own thread or a PM conversation.
> 
> Thanks.


AGREED


----------



## FiiO

thorhtpc said:


> I am also having this problem. My source files are 96kHz/24bit FLAC and ALAC files. I have downloaded the ALAC files to my iPhone, and they play at 96kHz when connected to the BTR5 with the USB camera adapter. So the iPhone plays the files at 96kHz, but the Mac only plays them at 44.1kHz. I have the BTR5 set to USB2.0.


Dear user,

Which software are you using? You could also try other software for playing the 96k file to check again.

Best regards


----------



## thorhtpc

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> Which software are you using? You could also try other software for playing the 96k file to check again.
> 
> Best regards


I am using iTunes. What playback software do you recommend.


----------



## FiiO

thorhtpc said:


> I am using iTunes. What playback software do you recommend.


Dear user,

You could try the Audirvana software to see if it helps?

Best regards


----------



## transmaster

I very much like my BTR5 using Shure SE-215, and the Etymōtic ER3SE both with balanced feed cables. I have a strange issue with the BTR5. With it paired to my iPhone XS-Max but idle. I sometimes hear a soft and quiet chuffing sound in the earphones. This sound ascends and descends in an 8 note sound scale. It doesn't happen that often and with a reboot of the BTR5 it goes away. It doesn't seem to happen when I have it's App open. The firmware on the device is 1.0.6. It does not happen often enough to be annoying and it is simple to stop. But this is something I should not be hearing what ever it is.


----------



## Traveler843 (Jun 21, 2020)

I have firmware 1.0.6 and just got my BTR5. I will mainly be using this as a USB DAC for my iPhone and Mac. I have a feature request:

When in USB DAC mode please have a rotating display of the Bluetooth CODEC and the incoming audio stream bit depth and frequency (e.g. 24/96). So the OLED display could rotate between APTX HD and 24/96, for example. That would be very helpful information to display!


----------



## Traveler843 (Jun 21, 2020)

I have an iPhone 11 Pro, and got the Apple camera adapter with a USB-A connector and the extra lightening port. I then used a USB-A to USB-C cable to connect the BTR5. However, it does not want to act as a USB DAC for the iPhone. I don't get any audio from the BTR5 in this configuration. The iPhone plays via the internal speakers in USB 2.0 mode. In USB 1.0 mode the display flashes between 44.1K and Bluetooth reconnect, with no audio except a faint clicking sound as the display flashes.

What's going on? It does work in USB 1.0 mode on my iPad Pro which has a native USB-C connector.


----------



## Traveler843

thorhtpc said:


> I am also having this problem. My source files are 96kHz/24bit FLAC and ALAC files. I have downloaded the ALAC files to my iPhone, and they play at 96kHz when connected to the BTR5 with the USB camera adapter. So the iPhone plays the files at 96kHz, but the Mac only plays them at 44.1kHz. I have the BTR5 set to USB2.0.



If you use Audirvana player then you can get 96 KHz playback on the Mac. However, so far that's the only player I've tried that does it. Plexamp does NOT. Also, I can't get the BTR5 to work with the camera adapter on my iPhone 11 Pro. Can you elaborate a bit more on your settings?


----------



## thorhtpc

Traveler843 said:


> If you use Audirvana player then you can get 96 KHz playback on the Mac. However, so far that's the only player I've tried that does it. Plexamp does NOT. Also, I can't get the BTR5 to work with the camera adapter on my iPhone 11 Pro. Can you elaborate a bit more on your settings?


I downloaded the Audirvana player and it does convert the 96KHz/24bit ALAC files to 96KHz/32bit when playing through the BTR5. Strange that iTunes plays the files correctly on the iPhone, but not the Mac.  To use the BTR5 with the iPhone, all I did was plug the camera adapter into the phone, and the USB cable that came with the BTR5 into that. Does the BTR5 show up in the auto output list? It's the 3 circles with the up arrow icon.


----------



## Traveler843 (Jun 22, 2020)

thorhtpc said:


> Does the BTR5 show up in the auto output list? It's the 3 circles with the up arrow icon.



Ok I found that screen, but the BTR5 is not listed in either USB 1.0 or 2.0 mode.


----------



## thorhtpc

Traveler843 said:


> I'm not sure where on the iPhone you are referring. Can you be more specific?


One place is in the control center. You can access that icon from the control center by swiping down from the top-right corner of your screen. In the upper right of the control center should be the output select icon.


----------



## Traveler843 (Jun 22, 2020)

thorhtpc said:


> One place is in the control center. You can access that icon from the control center by swiping down from the top-right corner of your screen. In the upper right of the control center should be the output select icon.



ya I found it, but no BTR5 on my Iphone 11 Pro with camera adapter. It IS listed on my iPad Pro (native USB-C) in USB 2.0 mode. Interestingly on the iPad Pro, if I play a 96 KHz FLAC file in Plexamp the BTR5 only shows 44.1 KHz. Is there a way to get hi-res music on the iPad?

On my iPhone with camera adapter if I put the BTR5 into USB 2.0 mode, it constantly cycles between OFF/FiiO/Reconnect endlessly. Same mode works on the iPad.


----------



## thorhtpc

Traveler843 said:


> ya I found it, but no BTR5 on my Iphone 11 Pro with camera adapter. It IS listed on my iPad Pro (native USB-C) in USB 2.0 mode. Interestingly on the iPad Pro, if I play a 96 KHz FLAC file in Plexamp the BTR5 only shows 44.1 KHz. Is there a way to get hi-res music on the iPad?
> 
> On my iPhone with camera adapter if I put the BTR5 into USB 2.0 mode, it constantly cycles between OFF/FiiO/Reconnect endlessly. Same mode works on the iPad.


I do not have an iPad, so I can not help with that. On the iPhone, I am using the built in music app. Are you streaming the music from a Plex server with the Plexamp, or is it local on the phone?

I do not have the same experience with the camera adapter and BTR5 on my iPhone 8. I just plug it in and it works. Not sure what is causing what you are seeing. Maybe the Fiio rep would have some clues for you.


----------



## Hooga

Traveler843 said:


> When in USB DAC mode please have a rotating display of the Bluetooth CODEC and the incoming audio stream bit depth and frequency (e.g. 24/96). So the OLED display could rotate between APTX HD and 24/96, for example. That would be very helpful information to display!



Just out of curiosity, why would you need that? 
Besides: which of the two configurable BT connections parameters would you want to have displayed ?


----------



## SnipeStyle

Could one of the realm of the sky edition owners post a few photos of their device? I want to order a btr5 soon and I can't decide between the black and the sky colorway. I could find countless user photos and videos of the black version but none of the sky edition, besides the promotional material. Thanks!


----------



## Traveler843

Hooga said:


> Just out of curiosity, why would you need that?
> Besides: which of the two configurable BT connections parameters would you want to have displayed ?



I *really* need the bit depth displayed so I can tell whether my device is sending the proper hi-res audio stream. Right now I have no idea if it's 16 bit, 24 bit or 32 bit. All I know is the sampling frequency, which is nice but doesn't tell the full picture. I'm not sure which BT parameters you are referring to. I just want the current CODEC (APTX HD, LDAC, etc.) displayed.


----------



## Traveler843

thorhtpc said:


> I do not have an iPad, so I can not help with that. On the iPhone, I am using the built in music app. Are you streaming the music from a Plex server with the Plexamp, or is it local on the phone?
> 
> I do not have the same experience with the camera adapter and BTR5 on my iPhone 8. I just plug it in and it works. Not sure what is causing what you are seeing. Maybe the Fiio rep would have some clues for you.



For Plexamp the music was both local on my iPad, and streamed. I have Plexamp configured for the maximum quality, so no transcoding is happening. I verified no transcoding is happening via the Varys app. It's all Direct Play FLAC.


----------



## bujinkan

hello to all of you a question from me also
So my gear is a fiio M11 fh7 iems and my phone (P30 PRO)
For the times i dont want wires fh7 to M11 i was thinking the btr5 plus the lc 3.5bs cable (short 45cm) 
first question,does the btr5 connect at the same time with my phone (for calls only) and the M11 for media? and when i am hearing music from the M11 and receive a call from my phone does it stop playing music and start ringing?
second is there a short cable like the one above but in 2.5 balanced?
for the current iems fh7 is maybe the btr3k also good? to save some money?
Thnaks in advance


----------



## Hooga (Jun 22, 2020)

Traveler843 said:


> I *really* need the bit depth displayed so I can tell whether my device is sending the proper hi-res audio stream. Right now I have no idea if it's 16 bit, 24 bit or 32 bit. All I know is the sampling frequency, which is nice but doesn't tell the full picture. I'm not sure which BT parameters you are referring to. I just want the current CODEC (APTX HD, LDAC, etc.) displayed.



Oh I think I see now. You are referring to BT connection only, not to the USB one.

When BTR5 receives data via USB, the display shows the sampling resolution. (This is a fact)

When BTR5 receives data via BT, the display only shows the codec (instead!).
I think you would not need the information about the original file resolution, as the BT codec is downsampling it anyway...

That said, yes, they might also add bit-resolution info alongside sampling...


----------



## Kentajalli (Jun 22, 2020)

Traveler843 said:


> I *really* need the bit depth displayed so I can tell whether my device is sending the proper hi-res audio stream. Right now I have no idea if it's 16 bit, 24 bit or 32 bit. All I know is the sampling frequency, which is nice but doesn't tell the full picture. I'm not sure which BT parameters you are referring to. I just want the current CODEC (APTX HD, LDAC, etc.) displayed.


Well if your device is working right, the bit depth to BTR5 would be 32bit all the time (on USB) as the device is 32bit. so the player (your phone etc.) should send the data in 32bit chunks.
Ofcourse BTR5 is also compatible with 16 and 24bit data, in case your player can only manage 16 or 24.
Only your player KNOWS what the material is encoded in, which incidentally does not mean it was actually recorded in!!
Meaning, a 16bit original can easily be re-encoded to 24bit or higher, and vice-versa. Only by measuring the data , its dynamic range and noise content can one truly know what a certain piece of music is, 16 , 24 or 32bit.
On a side note, since there are so many FALSE 24bit (etc.) tracks flooded on the internet, HDTracks actually measure its material and compares it to the CD version, only and only if the track has more info. that the 16bit CD original, they choose it to be included on their website.
Long story short - don't worry about it! you can never tell, but if you must, look it up on your player, that's the only place you might get any info. albeit not accurate most of the time.


----------



## vmiguel

bujinkan said:


> hello to all of you a question from me also
> So my gear is a fiio M11 fh7 iems and my phone (P30 PRO)
> For the times i dont want wires fh7 to M11 i was thinking the btr5 plus the lc 3.5bs cable (short 45cm)
> first question,does the btr5 connect at the same time with my phone (for calls only) and the M11 for media? and when i am hearing music from the M11 and receive a call from my phone does it stop playing music and start ringing?
> (...)


Regarding the bluetooth behaviour, that's exactly how mine works between my PC and iPhone, so it should also work in your setup.


----------



## twice2

SnipeStyle said:


> Could one of the realm of the sky edition owners post a few photos of their device? I want to order a btr5 soon and I can't decide between the black and the sky colorway. I could find countless user photos and videos of the black version but none of the sky edition, besides the promotional material. Thanks!




It's limited but I think the black looks more slim and hides the screen.


----------



## SnipeStyle

twice2 said:


> It's limited but I think the black looks more slim and hides the screen.


Thank you so much! After seeing this, I think I will go with the black version for exactly the reasons you mentioned.


----------



## PTDennis

So, when connecting the BTR5 with an iPhone, iPad or even an Apple Watch, the codec displayed is AAC. But when connected with an Apple TV 4K, the codec is only SBC. Do anyone else have also this issue? Why I am not getting the AAC codec with the Apple TV? @FiiO do you have any explanation/help for this?


----------



## ClieOS

PTDennis said:


> So, when connecting the BTR5 with an iPhone, iPad or even an Apple Watch, the codec displayed is AAC. But when connected with an Apple TV 4K, the codec is only SBC. Do anyone else have also this issue? Why I am not getting the AAC codec with the Apple TV? @FiiO do you have any explanation/help for this?



I had read that an ES100 user can't get AAC from his Apple TV 4K as well, but only SBC. So this could very well be an Apple issue.


----------



## domino584

Can the BTR5 function as a usb-c desktop mic too?


----------



## Hooga

domino584 said:


> Can the BTR5 function as a usb-c desktop mic too?


I couldn't make it work. Not with its standard driver anyway


----------



## ClieOS

domino584 said:


> Can the BTR5 function as a usb-c desktop mic too?



No. It is probably not possible on hardware level.


----------



## Hooga

ClieOS said:


> No. It is probably not possible on hardware level.



You mean BTR5 hw ?


----------



## ClieOS

Hooga said:


> You mean BTR5 hw ?


Yes.


----------



## Hooga

ClieOS said:


> Yes.



Yet another (missing) feature they elected "not requiring a disclaimer" on their spec sheets? The list starts to be long


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 23, 2020)

Hooga said:


> Yet another (missing) feature they elected "not requiring a disclaimer" on their spec sheets? The list starts to be long



Last I recalled, FiiO never promised a working mic on USB DAC, thus there isn't anything missing. Also, technically speaking an USB DAC on its own shouldn't need to support mic. That's what a soundcard (or audio interface) should have - which is basically an USB DAC + ADC. BTR5 isn't one of those and was never marketed as such.


----------



## Hooga

ClieOS said:


> Last I recalled, FiiO never promised a working mic on USB DAC, thus there isn't anything missing. Also, technically speaking an USB DAC on its own shouldn't need to support mic. That's what a soundcard (or audio interface) should have - which is basically an USB DAC + ADC. BTR5 isn't one of those and was never marketed as such.



Yes I know you like to defend them. No problem with that.


----------



## ClieOS

Hooga said:


> Yes I know you like to defend them. No problem with that.


 
Nothing wrong to defend the innocent.


----------



## Hooga

ClieOS said:


> Nothing wrong to defend the innocent.



Sure, sure...


----------



## Kentajalli

Kentajalli said:


> Well if your device is working right, the bit depth to BTR5 would be 32bit all the time (on USB) as the device is 32bit. so the player (your phone etc.) should send the data in 32bit chunks.
> Ofcourse BTR5 is also compatible with 16 and 24bit data, in case your player can only manage 16 or 24.
> Only your player KNOWS what the material is encoded in, which incidentally does not mean it was actually recorded in!!
> Meaning, a 16bit original can easily be re-encoded to 24bit or higher, and vice-versa. Only by measuring the data , its dynamic range and noise content can one truly know what a certain piece of music is, 16 , 24 or 32bit.
> ...


*Correction:*
BTR5 is also capable of 1bit data in native DSD format.
So in USB, the bit rate should be 32bit for PCM and 1bit for DSD.


----------



## Hooga

Kentajalli said:


> *Correction:*
> BTR5 is also capable of 1bit data in native DSD format.
> So in USB, the bit rate should be 32bit for PCM and 1bit for DSD.



True. At the top of my mind I dont remember what does BTR5 display while playing a DSD file tho


----------



## noaid

When playing DSD via USB then BTR5 displays DSD64, DSD128, DSD256. That is enough.
When playing DSD512 from my phone in UAPP it is probably internally converted somewhere (probably UAPP) tp PCM and displayed sample rate is 384kHz.
I would also like to see which sample rate/bit depth is going to DAC from LDAC after decoding.

But I found one problem with playing DSD from foobar in Windows 10 and Fiio driver v 4.47.0 (latest one). I have BTR5 (max DSD256) and Q5s (max DSD512).
Problem appears on 2 different windows systems and both Fiio devices.
And it is - *highest rate DSD files cannot be played on both devices (DSD256/DSD512) in Windows. The same files can be played in Android/UAPP. So I think it is some problem with Fiio USB driver.*
DSD64-128 for BTR5 and DSD64-256 for Q5s is playing well.

Is anybody else who has the same problem?
@FiiO  will you please help me with this problem?


----------



## CTR640

Hi, me again after a while. I'd like to get one but I need some information. Are are there any issue or limit when I use it with my PC?


----------



## Hooga

CTR640 said:


> Hi, me again after a while. I'd like to get one but I need some information. Are are there any issue or limit when I use it with my PC?



Quite a few
- no mic support when connected via USB (at least)
- internal EQ does not work when connected via USB or BT/LDAC
- no windows remote control app. If you want to manage internal settings you anyway need to have it bt-connected to a smartphone only for that


----------



## CTR640

Hooga said:


> Quite a few
> - no mic support when connected via USB (at least)
> - internal EQ does not work when connected via USB or BT/LDAC
> - no windows remote control app. If you want to manage internal settings you anyway need to have it bt-connected to a smartphone only for that


The 2nd is a bit bummer but no big deal. The others are perfectly fine.
What about the quality and all? I mean will it be limited to 16/44 or 16/48?


----------



## Hooga

CTR640 said:


> The 2nd is a bit bummer but no big deal. The others are perfectly fine.
> What about the quality and all? I mean will it be limited to 16/44 or 16/48?



No, it will pass all supported formats & rates (via USB)


----------



## CTR640 (Jun 26, 2020)

Hooga said:


> No, it will pass all supported formats & rates (via USB)


So not unlike the other like ES100 limited up to 16/48 when using USB mode on PC? 24/96? Not 24/192?


----------



## Hooga (Jun 26, 2020)

CTR640 said:


> So not unlike the other like ES100 limited up to 16/48 when using USB mode on PC? 24/96?
> Some webstores I'm planning to buy from seem to not be really accurate so sorry for the questions.



I am not using BTR5 anymore as I put it on sale recently but as far as I recall unlike other competitors it does output at least 24 / 192K for sure (much of my stuff is coded like that). Ah, and I tested DSD256 too iirc. Again, I should be pulling it from the box to double check "for sure", but I'm quite positive.


----------



## CTR640

Hooga said:


> I am not using BTR5 anymore as I put it on sale recently but as far as I recall unlike other competitors it does output at least 24 / 192K for sure (much of my stuff is coded like that)


Ah okay, thanks for the confirmation. Have you used it on PC? If yes, how's the sound quality? Currently having the Fiio E10K but after experienced a much better sound quality from the built-in DAC from Asus XG17AHPE monitor, trying to get better sound. I'm returning this monitor btw, IPS will never be without problem.


----------



## ClieOS

CTR640 said:


> Ah okay, thanks for the confirmation. Have you used it on PC? If yes, how's the sound quality? Currently having the Fiio E10K but after experienced a much better sound quality from the built-in DAC from Asus XG17AHPE monitor, trying to get better sound. I'm returning this monitor btw, IPS will never be without problem.



Like pretty much all BT adapter that can function as USB DAC, BTR5 is designed first and foremost as an BT adapter. If you need mostly a desktop USB DAC, you will likely find better sounding USB DAC for the same price, or even less.


----------



## Hooga (Jun 26, 2020)

CTR640 said:


> Ah okay, thanks for the confirmation. Have you used it on PC? If yes, how's the sound quality? Currently having the Fiio E10K but after experienced a much better sound quality from the built-in DAC from Asus XG17AHPE monitor, trying to get better sound. I'm returning this monitor btw, IPS will never be without problem.



Yes that's what we're talking about no? PC-connection.
I cant help you much with sq comparisons as I didnt compare it with many others. Used it via usb (and _only _via usb), and via balanced output (and _only _via balanced output), BTR5 has great, clean, dynamic output. Very nice on _that _respect.   BT sound quality is quite lacking - which is a general issue, not a particular BTR5 fault.  Finally, single ended port is dramatically less powered and dynamic than the balanced one.


----------



## CTR640

ClieOS said:


> Like pretty much all BT adapter that can function as USB DAC, BTR5 is designed first and foremost as an BT adapter. If you need mostly a desktop USB DAC, you will likely find better sounding USB DAC for the same price, or even less.


That's probably a good idea. But it's too hard to find one that meets my wishes. Well, not really difficult ones but I'd like to have a rich dynamic and losless. The built-in DAC in the monitor seem to be the  ESS 9118. This one sounds very good to me.




Hooga said:


> Yes that's what we're talking about no? PC-connection.
> I cant help you much with sq comparisons as I didnt compare it with many others. Used it via usb (and _only _via usb), and via balanced output (and _only _via balanced output), BTR5 has great, clean, dynamic output. Very nice on _that _respect.   BT sound quality is quite lacking - which is a general issue, not a particular BTR5 fault.  Finally, single ended port is dramatically less powered and dynamic than the balanced one.


BT is no concern for me. I'm not critical on the portable/BT aspect but for PC on the other hand... I don't like it try and return, that's why I'm very cautious.


----------



## ClieOS (Jun 26, 2020)

CTR640 said:


> That's probably a good idea. But it's too hard to find one that meets my wishes. Well, not really difficult ones but I'd like to have a rich dynamic and losless. The built-in DAC in the monitor seem to be the  ESS 9118. This one sounds very good to me.



You might want to check out E1DA (you can find its thread on the same portable amp forum here,  just a few link away from this thread). They have developed a good reputation of making good value and nice sounding USB DAC that also use ESS's chips, but only has 2.5mm balanced output.


----------



## CTR640 (Jun 26, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> You might want to check out E1DA (you can find its thread on the same portable amp forum here,  just a few link away from this thread). They have developed a good reputation of making good value and nice sounding USB DAC that also use ESS's chips.


Nice, thanks for suggesting another usb dac. I'm always open for more suggestions/advices.

-edit-

No adapters allowed or it will kill the DAC.
-E1DA thread

That's something new. None of my headphones and earphones are standard with 2.5mm.

What about the Xduoo Link?


----------



## ClieOS

CTR640 said:


> Nice, thanks for suggesting another usb dac. I'm always open for more suggestions/advices.
> 
> -edit-
> 
> ...



Never tried the Xduoo. But I can recommend HiliDac Beam 2. My impression can be found here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...myee-audirect-hilidac-atom-pro-beam-2.927067/


----------



## FiiO

noaid said:


> When playing DSD via USB then BTR5 displays DSD64, DSD128, DSD256. That is enough.
> When playing DSD512 from my phone in UAPP it is probably internally converted somewhere (probably UAPP) tp PCM and displayed sample rate is 384kHz.
> I would also like to see which sample rate/bit depth is going to DAC from LDAC after decoding.
> 
> ...


Dear user,

The BTR5 and Q5S support DSD up to DSD256.

And you may check whether your settings in foobar app is correct? Please refer to this thread for help: http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=42714





Best regards


----------



## noaid

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> The BTR5 and Q5S support DSD up to DSD256.
> 
> ...


Thanks for reply,I also find out what is the reason. And learned some more things as a result.
Foobar SACD plugin does not send Navive DSD anymore from version 0.9.7. This was a big surprise and disapointment for me. Rolling back to several years old version is not for me because author already did some big change in SACD tagging and I would have to retag all my isos.
Foobar outputs only DSD over PCM now and device max PCM sample rate is not high enough for DSD256/512. Max DoP rate depends logically on PCM max rate. That's clear.
Problem is in Foobar SACD plugin and some other player (don't remeber which one) only, other players may output Native DSD via ASIO.


----------



## Ocelitgol

Just wanna drop in and say this is the best thing I've ever heard via BT (and edge out some DAP as well). Amazing work. 
So is the LDAC EQ coming anytime soon?
I'm using Wavelet in the meantime


----------



## FiiO

Ocelitgol said:


> Just wanna drop in and say this is the best thing I've ever heard via BT (and edge out some DAP as well). Amazing work.
> So is the LDAC EQ coming anytime soon?
> I'm using Wavelet in the meantime


Dear user,

The engineer is still working on the EQ support for LDAC Bluetooth codec. If everything goes well, it will be supported at the end of this year.

Best regards


----------



## john61ct

ClieOS said:


> No idea, sorry. I have an Sony Xperia and it already has Sony own EQ system built into the smartphone.


Does that do as well as LG's V series as a transport/DAP ?


----------



## ClieOS

john61ct said:


> Does that do as well as LG's V series as a transport/DAP ?



You are asking how well my Xperia 5 as a transport / DAP? Well, like a lot of smartphones these days, it doesn't even have a 3.5mm output so it certainly can't be used as DAP. As for as a transport (feeding to BT adapter), I'll say it works just as well as any.


----------



## zibble

Thought I would post a short review of the FiiO SK-BTR5 case that I obtained through Penon Audio. 

Besides the expected wait to receive the case, it arrived intact and well packaged. The BTR5 fits well in the case by sliding it into the open top of the case while orienting the screen to appear in the cutout provided. There are appropriate openings for connecting cables and embossed designs on the side that mimic the buttons used to control the unit. However, the buttons themselves reside under the case material. As a result,  I find a lack of tactile feedback when trying to "find" the correct button to perform a function. Also, the BTR5 can slide up in the case during handling due to its open top and thereby obscure the screen and make locating buttons problematic. While the case seems well made, these issues made me less prone to use the case while trying to operate the BTR5. There is no way it would fit in the provided clip while in the case. It will be fine for protecting the unit during transport or storage. 

P.S., you may want to keep the little foam packing that is inside the case when shipped to be able to re-use it to help the case keep its shape when stuffed into storage by itself. It was the first thing I discarded. 

So in summary, love the BTR5, not so much the case for it. Hope this helps anyone considering a similar purchase.


----------



## Ocelitgol

zibble said:


> Thought I would post a short review of the FiiO SK-BTR5 case that I obtained through Penon Audio.
> 
> Besides the expected wait to receive the case, it arrived intact and well packaged. The BTR5 fits well in the case by sliding it into the open top of the case while orienting the screen to appear in the cutout provided. There are appropriate openings for connecting cables and embossed designs on the side that mimic the buttons used to control the unit. However, the buttons themselves reside under the case material. As a result,  I find a lack of tactile feedback when trying to "find" the correct button to perform a function. Also, the BTR5 can slide up in the case during handling due to its open top and thereby obscure the screen and make locating buttons problematic. While the case seems well made, these issues made me less prone to use the case while trying to operate the BTR5. There is no way it would fit in the provided clip while in the case. It will be fine for protecting the unit during transport or storage.
> 
> ...


Thanks for confirming this. I thought about the lack of tactile and I was hesitated


----------



## Ocelitgol

can anyone confirm if there's any significant battery difference high and low gain?


----------



## ClieOS

Ocelitgol said:


> can anyone confirm if there's any significant battery difference high and low gain?



It is mostly the volume output as well as the load impedance that determines the battery life, not the gain setting.


----------



## Ocelitgol

ClieOS said:


> It is mostly the volume output as well as the load impedance that determines the battery life, not the gain setting.


Thank you. I guess I'll just leave it at high


----------



## hmscott (Jul 9, 2020)

Ocelitgol said:


> can anyone confirm if there's any significant battery difference high and low gain?


tl;dr - BTR5 lasted 3 hours and 15 minutes @ High gain 100% Volume (60) driving Beyerdynamic DT880 250ohm playing action movies.

High Gain = Higher Volume -> larger battery drain.  More power to drive higher impedance and insensitive headphones will take Higher Gain, Higher Volume, and that will take more power.

I plugged in my new Beyerdynamic DT 880 250 ohm headphones into the BTR5 3.5mm port and I am using the BTR5 as a USB DAC (PC Windows 10).

I have the BTR5 Gain set to High and the BTR5 Volume set to 60, yes the 100% maximum volume.

The BTR5 @ 100% volume High Gain is driving the DT880's loud enough to enjoy watching an action film (Battleship, Youtube TV).

Even at the maximum volume of 60 on H Gain the BTR5 isn't distorting, it's been running this way for 2 hours+, but it's not on battery - USB DAC + Charge=On.

BTW, the BTR5 is in the FiiO all black case, and it's not even warm after 2+ hours at H Gain Maximum volume, while charging.

I've turned off USB charging and started another movie (12:40am, Independence Day: Resurgence 1:55)... I'll update here later. 


Spoiler: DT880.BTR5 H-Gain Vol 60 3hrs 15min





*Update 1:40am*: 1 hour in, 3 bars left... 50% battery remaining.
*Update 3:00am*: Movie over, 2 bars left... 33% battery remaining...10 minute break...
*Update 3:10am*: Starting "Scouts Guide to the Zombie Apocalypse" 2:01, starting with 2 bars left at 3:10am
*Update 3:50am*: Down to 1 bar, 15% battery power left...1hr 20 left of the movie, I don't think the BTR5 is going to make it.
*Update 3:56am*: Well, that didn't take long.  Audio dropped out, no bars, screen started blinking, showed the option to turn Charge=On so I did that and the screen stopped blinking - but no audio.  Screen shows 44.1khz instead of 384khz. Going to wait and see if it sync's back up on it's own.
*Update 4:02am*:  Battery shows 2 bars and charging, but the BTR5 didn't continue audio, so I power cycled it.  The BTR5 is showing 384k and playing fine @ High Gain 60 Volume, with 2 bars solid and a 3rd blinking.


----------



## Kentajalli

"Conservation of energy" states that in a closed system, no energy is lost or gained.
It means, that in our case, the only way the battery can get drained is either by *Heat dissipation* (Fiio getting hotter) or supplying *larger power to the headphones*.
Position of any switch is irrelevent, unless it causes one of the above.
Sure higher frequency oscillations, more processing causes the unit to heat up more, using the bluetooth section or not again has an effect, but lower or higher gain does not.
The higher gain setting is for either "Low efficiency" headphones - in which case you have no choice but to use the high gain settings, and YES it will drain your battery faster because it is the headphones that are using the energy.
OR the higher gain setting is for "high impedance" headphones (which may or may not be efficient), as they require higher voltage swing to produce the same loudness of sound.
again it is the efficiency of the headphones that dictates how much POWER it uses and not its impedance or voltage swing.
At any rate, it is advisable to use the right gain settings for your choice of headphones for many reasons. 
Play something at low gain, push your volume to max on both the player and the device, if it is loud enough to hurt your ears and/or headphones then low gain is for you, if not, use high gain.


----------



## ClassicGOD

Sorry if it was mentioned before but for those of us that want to wear BTR5 around their neck I think Baseus has a perfect solution. Didn't see similar solutions from other manufacturers but stumbled upon this by accident while looking for a lanyard for my BTR5.
Not sure if I can post links to AliExpress here so just search for 'Baseus Lanyard'.


----------



## Ocelitgol

ClassicGOD said:


> Sorry if it was mentioned before but for those of us that want to wear BTR5 around their neck I think Baseus has a perfect solution. Didn't see similar solutions from other manufacturers but stumbled upon this by accident while looking for a lanyard for my BTR5.
> Not sure if I can post links to AliExpress here so just search for 'Baseus Lanyard'.


I think you can also use like a phone holder ring thingy. 
BTW, mine gets a bit warm if plug in and play via BT


----------



## Hinomotocho

Fiio finally has a USB C to USB C for those who want to stick with the brand

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## Hooga

Hinomotocho said:


> Fiio finally has a USB C to USB C for those who want to stick with the brand
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_




All the others instead can buy this practically identical one for 30% less. I have that by the way, very high quality build.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Hooga said:


> All the others instead can buy this practically identical one for 30% less. I have that by the way, very high quality build.


I just noticed the likeness


----------



## HarveyKrisz

Hi im new on this thread. I have an Iphone is it worth getting the Btr5 or only good with android?(cos the codecs)


----------



## Devodonaldson

HarveyKrisz said:


> Hi im new on this thread. I have an Iphone is it worth getting the Btr5 or only good with android?(cos the codecs)


I've used it with an iPhone that I use as just a music player. I'm an Android phone guy. Seeing as any Bluetooth you use with iOS is AAC, compared to any other Bluetooth DAV you'd use, you aren't missing out. It's just when compared to LDAC on Android that your really behind. So, if you're looking for bluetooth, may as well get the best Bluetooth DAV you can get for your iOS device.


----------



## HipHopScribe

HarveyKrisz said:


> Hi im new on this thread. I have an Iphone is it worth getting the Btr5 or only good with android?(cos the codecs)



I would say yes, AAC is still a good codec. Maybe not quite as good as AptX HD or LDAC (at 660kbps or 990kbps, which some Android phone can't even achieve), but probably close enough to transparent for most circumstances.


----------



## 405292

Triakel said:


> I'm a couple of days in with my BTR5. Nice! I don't have high-end gear, so I'll leave those comparisons to others. I can say that is sounds *really good* (technical term), particularly when playing high-quality audio files.
> 
> When connected to a computer via USB, it sounds like it could be a "real" desktop amp. Overall, the output seems drier/crisper than what comes though my O2+SDAC or Xonar STX, but is not noticeably inferior. It might actually be better for critical listening in some situations (classical). "Clear and capable" are the adjectives that spring to mind. I am sometimes amazed by how good small, wireless devices can sound these days.
> 
> ...




What did you use to connect your 6XX to the BTR5? did you buy a 2.5mm cable for the 6XX or just a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter?


----------



## Hooga

DreaMworX said:


> What did you use to connect your 6XX to the BTR5? did you buy a 2.5mm cable for the 6XX or just a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter?



Never ever connect a single ended cable to a balanced ended amp output. That very possibly will damage the amp stage. 
Your sole "right" option for your purpose is to swap the cans cable.

The viceversa (connecting a balanced cable to a single ended amp - via an adapter ofc) is harmless and "ok", instead.


----------



## john61ct

DreaMworX said:


> did you buy a 2.5mm cable for the 6XX or just a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter?


https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm#Sennheiser_HD substitute 2.5mm TRRS for the XLR


----------



## omlettes

Is there any way to disable Bluetooth?

can you use the USB DAC and charge, of at least maintain charge, at the same time?


----------



## Kentajalli

By default, when you use it as USB DAC, the BT gets disconnected, so it is automatic. the device can not manage both USB and BT.
On options, keep charge to ON position, and it will trickle charge while USB is connected, draining your phones battery.


----------



## Hooga

omlettes said:


> Is there any way to disable Bluetooth?



Not that I know of, no




omlettes said:


> can you use the USB DAC and charge, of at least maintain charge, at the same time?



Yes, but it depends on your source.
Your PC will allow that
Tempotec V1 won't
A purist will also say (I honestly don't know if he would be right or wrong in this case) that charging while playing affects DAC activity therefore sound quality


----------



## littlenezt

hi there, i just bought this little device, anyone can elaborate or explains what really is the "Dac clock level" and "Distortion Compensation" settings do?


----------



## FiiO

littlenezt said:


> hi there, i just bought this little device, anyone can elaborate or explains what really is the "Dac clock level" and "Distortion Compensation" settings do?


Dear user,

You could click the '?' icon for more information in the app:
Dac clock level:





Distortion Compensation:




Best regards


----------



## littlenezt

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> You could click the '?' icon for more information in the app:
> Dac clock level:
> ...


yes i have read the description on the ? button and have tried to change the settings options but cant seem to hear any difference on the audio

thats why im asking whats exactly both options do


----------



## Hooga

littlenezt said:


> yes i have read the description on the ? button and have tried to change the settings options but cant seem to hear any difference on the audio
> 
> thats why im asking whats exactly both options do



Welcome to Fiio technical support...


----------



## hmscott (Jul 26, 2020)

@FiiO - what's up with this message when I try to buy something from your AliExpress Store?

" Can not deliver to United States"



Update: Worked with AliExpres, problem fixed.


----------



## d73b3e

Hooga said:


> Welcome to Fiio technical support...


Still better than Apple's technical support...


----------



## Hooga (Jul 22, 2020)

d73b3e said:


> Still better than Apple's technical support...



I presume so, in facts I left Apple decades ago...  Life is too short to pay someone and get bad service in return


----------



## omlettes

d73b3e said:


> Still better than Apple's technical support...



Howso?  The two times I had to use it were both excellent. The first time was in store. We scheduled a time and met. No wait. Face to face. The second time I called. I had the option for a callback so I didn’t have to wait on hold or eat the cost for the call. Again no wait and no charge to my cell phone. Pretty good experience.


----------



## d73b3e

omlettes said:


> Howso?  The two times I had to use it were both excellent. The first time was in store. We scheduled a time and met. No wait. Face to face. The second time I called. I had the option for a callback so I didn’t have to wait on hold or eat the cost for the call. Again no wait and no charge to my cell phone. Pretty good experience.


Yeah, it worked for me in basic operations with the phone or the Mac. However, when a little-bit-advanced things come to play they either drive it away or buy a new one or let's find out.
FiiO did provide free battery replacement (out of warranty), free foam tips, investigate bug reports and fix them.


----------



## Gordilocks

d73b3e said:


> Yeah, it worked for me in basic operations with the phone or the Mac. However, when a little-bit-advanced things come to play they either drive it away or buy a new one or let's find out.
> FiiO did provide free battery replacement (out of warranty), free foam tips, investigate bug reports and fix them.



Agreed, Apple service falls apart quickly when things go beyond a simple replacement. Even with my wife's AirPod Pros, she had a rattle in the left bud. They replaced the left bud then the left bud doesn't charge up, so they replace it again. The replacement has the same issue, their solution, replace the same bud. 😂 It took me a good amount of time to convince the rep to replace the charging case as well.


----------



## 405292

Has anyone tried pushing 6XXs with this amp? I've heard amazing reviews about this little device, and some poeple say it manages to push the 6XX decently using the 2.5mm output. But i'm worried since my SMSL M6 barely manages to do that and on paper it looks more powerful


----------



## FiiO

hmscott said:


> @FiiO - what's up with this message when I try to buy something from your AliExpress Store?
> 
> " Can not deliver to United States"


Does the same problem remain? I checked just now and it works fine.

Best regards


----------



## hmscott (Jul 26, 2020)

FiiO said:


> Does the same problem remain? I checked just now and it works fine.
> 
> Best regards


Sorry to say yes, it's still saying the same thing:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000589596283.html


----------



## Spidermanxd

hmscott said:


> Sorry to say yes, it's still saying the same thing:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.e85f2920i419SZ
> 
> It's happening in other stores / products I've looked at on AliExpress as well.  As soon as I select the options to add to cart - item "color", shipping location (if showing), the shipping options aren't shown and it says "Can not deliver to United States".
> ...


You can buy from Amazon, cheaper and faster, why the hassle buying from AliExpress


----------



## Ocelitgol

I've been wondering: can the DAC clock divider settings separated between USB mode and BT mode? As of right now, I think changing it applies to both mode.


----------



## hmscott (Jul 26, 2020)

Spidermanxd said:


> You can buy from Amazon, cheaper and faster, why the hassle buying from AliExpress


That's irrelevant to the question I am asking isn't it?  I'm not looking for advice on where to buy the BTR5 at the best price, but thanks for the suggestion.

And I thought @FiiO would like to know US customers can't order from their AliExpress store right now.

The BTR5 "Realm of the Sky Edition" was only available to purchase on FiiO's AliExpress store when I bought it, now it's saying "Can not deliver to United States" for even the regular BTR5 from FiiO's AliExpress store.

And, yes the regular BTR5 and Titanium version are finally $109.95 on Amazon at least for a while, after being $139 for so long (or higher) - probably a good idea to pick one up before they sell out and the prices go up again, I already have 2 BTR5 spares - a good idea if you like something like this that can get lost or fail over time:
https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-BTR5-384K-Bluetooth5-0-Headphone-Unbalanced/dp/B088YFDYBB

@FiiO - Why is FiiO's AliExpress store refusing to deliver to the US?  Why are other AliExpress stores doing the same?  I've checked back on stores about items I've ordered before that are now saying the same thing: "Can not deliver to United States".

If you don't know please ask your AliExpress store liaison to ask AliExpress what is going on?  I'm sure there are other US customers that would like to know what's up too.  I'm hoping someone with an AliExpress store has a better chance of getting an answer from AliExpress than a random US customer.  

Update:  I worked through this with AliExpress and something they changed in their webpage / cookies recently broke under my "Privacy Settings" while set to "Full Privacy".  When I backed down to "Reset to Defaults" in "Privacy Settings" in Microsoft Edge then the AliExpress product pages started working again, no more "Can not ship to United States" - "Privacy Settings".


----------



## TheoS53




----------



## bigjako

I have a question about using the BTR5 as a source connected to my DAC.  I'm trying to build a listening station with a minimum of wires, relatively fewer pieces (for the volume and the cost savings).  So far, I have a standard laptop-dac-amp combo and a bedroom setup that uses an xDuoo TA-01B dac/amp combo, which I have rigged up via dongles and a powered USB adapter to a lightning cable. I sit in my lounger and plug in a phone or an iPad and listen to my HD6XXs and it works pretty nicely (I must use the powered USB for it to sound nice) 

I'm trying to do another, similar setup, but I would like to do it so that the iPad or iPhone don't need to be physically plugged in to listen.  So I have arrived at the BTR5 as a possible solution here.  I would keep the BTR5 physically connected to the DAC, and bluetooth from my iPhone as the remote control.  In this case, the BTR5 would act as the digital source, fed over bluetooth from the phone.  Does anyone have a similar implementation or is there a better way of doing it.

Ultimately, I'm trying to stay away from laptops or DAPs as a digital source and I see the BTR5 as a possible solution.  Hoping someone can steer me the right way before I buy from Amazon, though I'm happy to return it if it doesn't work.


----------



## ClieOS

bigjako said:


> ... In this case, the BTR5 would act as the digital source, fed over bluetooth from the phone.  Does anyone have a similar implementation or is there a better way of doing it.



BTR5 can't output digital signal - no BT adapter can, as a matter of fact. 

What you want is probably a small DAP that can support USB DAC function as well as acting as BT receiver, which there are a few: FiiO M5, Shanling M0, Hidiz AP80, etc.


----------



## littlenezt (Jul 25, 2020)

Hooga said:


> Welcome to Fiio technical support...


lol


Ocelitgol said:


> I've been wondering: can the DAC clock divider settings separated between USB mode and BT mode? As of right now, I think changing it applies to both mode.


meanwhile im still here searching the difference between dac clock divider and distorsion compensation settings




TheoS53 said:


>



finally someones who explain the distorsion compensation feature.. so by your explanation : if i dial the second harmonic to level 5 and leave the third harmonic on 0 the sound should be more analog / musical and if i leave the second harmonic on 0 and set the third harmonic to level 5 it should give a bit more colder / analytical sound? also one more question, whats the difference between the clock divider level settings?


----------



## littlenezt (Jul 25, 2020)

sorry double post


----------



## ClieOS

To overly over-simplify things, a DAC needs a reference clock to generate sound. A clock divider is used to basically control how precise that clock is. The more precise the clock, the more precise the sound and the less noise.


----------



## littlenezt

ClieOS said:


> To overly over-simplify things, a DAC needs a reference clock to generate sound. A clock divider is used to basically control how precise that clock is. The more precise the clock, the more precise the sound and the less noise.


thanks for super simplifying it to me, it saves my brain from processing all the mumbo jumbo things


----------



## Hooga

ClieOS said:


> To overly over-simplify things, a DAC needs a reference clock to generate sound. A clock divider is used to basically control how precise that clock is. The more precise the clock, the more precise the sound and the less noise.



Thanks !  So why isnt the max dividing factor not always used ? You always want less noise don't you? I presume there are countersides to balance?
This might also explain why different divider factors are recommended for USB and BT? 

Thanks again


----------



## ClieOS

Hooga said:


> Thanks !  So why isnt the max dividing factor not always used ? You always want less noise don't you? I presume there are countersides to balance?
> This might also explain why different divider factors are recommended for USB and BT?
> 
> Thanks again



Most DAC maker would probably just set the clock divider setting to the highest and be done with it. I imagine FiiO is allowing the user to change the setting so individual can decide whether to squeeze out more battery life or best SQ.


----------



## boodado

bigjako said:


> I have a question about using the BTR5 as a source connected to my DAC.  I'm trying to build a listening station with a minimum of wires, relatively fewer pieces (for the volume and the cost savings).  So far, I have a standard laptop-dac-amp combo and a bedroom setup that uses an xDuoo TA-01B dac/amp combo, which I have rigged up via dongles and a powered USB adapter to a lightning cable. I sit in my lounger and plug in a phone or an iPad and listen to my HD6XXs and it works pretty nicely (I must use the powered USB for it to sound nice)
> 
> I'm trying to do another, similar setup, but I would like to do it so that the iPad or iPhone don't need to be physically plugged in to listen.  So I have arrived at the BTR5 as a possible solution here.  I would keep the BTR5 physically connected to the DAC, and bluetooth from my iPhone as the remote control.  In this case, the BTR5 would act as the digital source, fed over bluetooth from the phone.  Does anyone have a similar implementation or is there a better way of doing it.
> 
> Ultimately, I'm trying to stay away from laptops or DAPs as a digital source and I see the BTR5 as a possible solution.  Hoping someone can steer me the right way before I buy from Amazon, though I'm happy to return it if it doesn't work.



This is my simple budget solution - JDS Atom Amp / FX Audio Tube Buffer / ChromeCast Audio / BTR5 / BTR3 / ES100
JDS Atom has two inputs - 3.5mm and RCA.  CCA via 3.5 and FX Audio via RCA .  Bluetooth adapters connect to the FX Audio.

FX Audio tube rolled.


----------



## bigjako

boodado said:


> This is my simple budget solution - JDS Atom Amp / FX Audio Tube Buffer / ChromeCast Audio / BTR5 / BTR3 / ES100
> JDS Atom has two inputs - 3.5mm and RCA.  CCA via 3.5 and FX Audio via RCA .  Bluetooth adapters connect to the FX Audio.
> 
> FX Audio tube rolled.


Thanks for that. Looks a lot like what I’m trying to build, but why do you need a BTR3, BTR5, CCA and an ES100? There’s got to be a way to replace them all with one device that plugs into the DAC as source.  I’m not too concerned with Bluetooth or chromecast but they’re nice bonuses if so.  Maybe a raspberry pi solution but even then I could just get a DAP.


----------



## boodado (Jul 25, 2020)

...but why do you need a BTR3, BTR5, CCA and an ES100?

Bluetooth audio addict. Actually just the evolution of my journey in headphones.  Started with BTR3 => heard good things about ES100 (never liked the plastic build of it though) => BTR5 is where it is at.  Love the unit - works well with my 2.5 IEMs and balanced HD6XX and my 3.5 IEMs.  CCA because it connects via WIFI.

CCA via 3.5mm directly to Atom as Solid State amp sound. (Way the engineers want it to sound)

FX-Audio tube buffer for the slight harmonic distortion that just adds a little warmth and tube goodness.


----------



## boodado (Jul 25, 2020)

There’s got to be a way to replace them all with one device that plugs into the DAC as source. I’m not too concerned with Bluetooth or chromecast but they’re nice bonuses if so. Maybe a raspberry pi solution but even then I could just get a DAP.

The CCA and Bluetooth adapters are my DACs.  I will normally connect from my phone or Chromebook.  Was considering building a RaspPI DAP but after adding up the PI, case, screen and HAT - figured it would be more expensive and improvement negligible.  Just to clarify - I already have a PI unit and screen - the additional HAT would not be as sophisticated as the BTR5.  

The added value of the BTR5 is that I can bring it with me when I want to be mobile.  I use my BTR5 and the other BT devices as DACs both at home and work - just connect to my computers and have them function as DACs.


----------



## Kentajalli

Hooga said:


> Thanks !  So why isnt the max dividing factor not always used ? You always want less noise don't you? I presume there are countersides to balance?
> This might also explain why different divider factors are recommended for USB and BT?
> 
> Thanks again


Battery drain, heat generation.
In a battery operated device, battery drain is always of prime consideration - faster clocks use more battery.


----------



## hmscott (Jul 27, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Sorry to say yes, it's still saying the same thing:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000589596283.html


@FiiO - tl;dr - AlExpress changed their site somehow and privacy settings in Microsoft Edge / Chrome I had been using for months caused me to see that "Cannot Ship to United States" error message when I tried to select a product to purchase on your store.  Details below:

Privacy Settings - Alter browser's built-in privacy settings easily inside a toolbar popup
https://add0n.com/privacy-settings.html

I worked with AliExpress and the "Can not ship to United States" error happens when I have "Privacy Settings" extension set to "Full Privacy" in Microsoft Edge.  When I back down security to "Reset to Defaults" then AliExpress allows "Shipping to US".

IDK which specific privacy option in Microsoft Edge is the issue - the "Privacy Settings" extension allows for individually controlling each setting, but the value of it is 3 granular settings "Reset to Defaults" - "Enhanced Privacy" - and how I usually run with "Full Privacy" set

Something changed on AliExpress in the last weeks as I hadn't changed my Microsoft Edge / Privacy Settings options for months.

Here's the extension should anyone want to duplicate this and debug which privacy setting AliExpress all of a sudden got sensitive to:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/privacy-settings/ijadljdlbkfhdoblhaedfgepliodmomj?hl=en

I suggested AliExpress try installing it and setting "Full Privacy" and go to a product page on AliExpress and select an option / item to put in the cart and see if they can see the "Can not Ship to United States" error, then disable / reset each privacy setting to figure out which one is the problematic setting.

For now I'll just toggle back and forth between "Reset to Defaults" and "Full Privacy", or more likely stop using AliExpress.


----------



## MalinYamato

archy121 said:


> Just like to update others and let them know the glitches I was experiencing with BTR5 to V30 over USB C are resolved.
> 
> The problem as suspected was because of the cable I was using. A USB C to Micro USB with with a USB C adapter. I guess it was having some kind of bandwidth bottleneck when it came to playing back highest level 384 recordings.
> 
> ...


does an ordinary C to C cable work or does it have to be a special OTG cable?


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jul 28, 2020)

MalinYamato said:


> does an ordinary C to C cable work or does it have to be a special OTG cable?


On my v30 I use a standard/ordinary usbc to usbc cable.

However 99.9% of the time I just use the BTR5 in LDAC Bluetooth mode as it sounds great and is quite convenient.


----------



## Kentajalli

archy121 said:


> Just like to update others and let them know the glitches I was experiencing with BTR5 to V30 over USB C are resolved.
> 
> The problem as suspected was because of the cable I was using. A USB C to Micro USB with with a USB C adapter. I guess it was having some kind of bandwidth bottleneck when it came to playing back highest level 384 recordings.
> 
> ...


And does the Fiio sound better than V30 on usb mode?
somehow I am not expecting so, unless V30 does not like your headphones.


----------



## Kentajalli

MalinYamato said:


> does an ordinary C to C cable work or does it have to be a special OTG cable?


99 out of 100 it should be an otg .
otg wiring tells your phone you just connected a device to it, rather than a charger or a computer.


----------



## megabigeye

Kentajalli said:


> 99 out of 100 it should be an otg .
> otg wiring tells your phone you just connected a device to it, rather than a charger or a computer.


Doesn't USB-C make OTG unnecessary? The cables I've used have all been standard USB cables and they've worked fine.


----------



## HipHopScribe

I've used this short USB-C to USB-C cable to connect the BTR5 to my Sony smartphone:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071H86QB6

Mostly just wanted to test it out, I don't use it like that regularly. I didn't notice any obvious sound quality difference between USB-C and LDAC 990 (LDAC "best effort" does sound worse sometimes), though LDAC does seem quieter at the same volume step so it's hard to make a quick, volume matched comparison.


----------



## Kentajalli

HipHopScribe said:


> I've used this short USB-C to USB-C cable to connect the BTR5 to my Sony smartphone:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071H86QB6
> 
> Mostly just wanted to test it out, I don't use it like that regularly. I didn't notice any obvious sound quality difference between USB-C and LDAC 990 (LDAC "best effort" does sound worse sometimes), though LDAC does seem quieter at the same volume step so it's hard to make a quick, volume matched comparison.


BTR5 has separate volume memory for BT and USB.
you have to set volume for each format , and then try to do a A/B comparison .


----------



## HipHopScribe (Jul 28, 2020)

Kentajalli said:


> BTR5 has separate volume memory for BT and USB.
> you have to set volume for each format , and then try to do a A/B comparison .



I realize that, what I mean is that if I set the BTR5 at say 35 while on bluetooth and at 35 using USB-C, 35 on USB-C is perceptibly louder than 35 on bluetooth, so I would really have to measure the sound output to volume match. This might be particular to my phone or something to do with the settings on the app I'm using (Poweramp), I haven't done much playing around to try to figure that out


----------



## MalinYamato (Jul 29, 2020)

Kentajalli said:


> 99 out of 100 it should be an otg .
> otg wiring tells your phone you just connected a device to it, rather than a charger or a computer.





megabigeye said:


> Doesn't USB-C make OTG unnecessary? The cables I've used have all been standard USB cables and they've worked fine.


I heard that too, the host and child relationship is set dynamically by the new USB protocol (3.0? 3.1?) rather than by hard-wiring the lines the usual way to make it OTG. USB C is just an interface and the protocol may be one of 2.0, 3.0 or 3.1 so its hard to know weather a cable with C to C is capable of dynamically settings this or not. I am not 100 about this, so can anyone of you post a link to a cable that works.


----------



## john61ct

jsmiller58 said:


> On my v30 I use a standard/ordinary usbc to usbc cable.


Is this because USB type-C to type-C, the whole idea of "special OTG" has gone away?

Or something specific to the hardware involved here?


----------



## jsmiller58

john61ct said:


> Is this because USB type-C to type-C, the whole idea of "special OTG" has gone away?
> 
> Or something specific to the hardware involved here?


I am no expert, but I don’t recall any OTG requirement when using all usb-c.


----------



## Kentajalli

jsmiller58 said:


> I am no expert, but I don’t recall any OTG requirement when using all usb-c.


And yet on my Huawei Mate 20 pro, running Android 10, OTG is required.


----------



## jsmiller58

Kentajalli said:


> And yet on my Huawei Mate 20 pro, running Android 10, OTG is required.


Definitely a more complex situation for you than I have on my LG v30 and R6 Pro.


----------



## omlettes

How is sound compared to the Qudelix-5K?


----------



## Ocelitgol

Just something I found out today: If you use Samsung phone and prefer not to use apps like Neutron; enabling UHQ upscaler brings the default 48K to 192K on USB mode. I'm not even sure if this actually does anything, just thought I'd share.


----------



## john61ct

Kentajalli said:


> And yet on my Huawei Mate 20 pro, running Android 10, OTG is required.


Type-C, USB 3.1 GEN1 requires a non-standard USB cable, needs to be purchased separately

Standard USB cable only supports USB 2.0.


----------



## john61ct (Aug 2, 2020)

omlettes said:


> How is sound compared to the Qudelix-5K?


Consensus so far is the Q5K is a bit better, both USB DAC and LDAC modes.

Especially with HPs connected from the balanced outputs.


----------



## ClieOS

john61ct said:


> Consensus so far is the Q5K is a bit better, both USB DAC and LDAC modes.
> 
> Especially with HPs connected from the balanced outputs.



Didn't find 5K to be better as USB DAC, and LDAC on 5K is better not because LDAC itself is better but because 5K has a working EQ over LDAC, which may or may not be a concern depends on whether you use EQ or not.

As for balanced output - they are about the same to be.


----------



## Arghavan (Aug 3, 2020)

what is the best case for this device? I've heard DD hifi case becomes loose after some time.


----------



## Chiaroscur0

Do you guy think the btr5 could drive a zmf Eikon/Verite sufficiently? I'm loving it so far and I've mostly used it for iems but I plan to get one if not both of those and I'd prefer to stick to one device in the long run.


----------



## davidtriune (Aug 4, 2020)

I love this cheap balanced amp

pros:
-tiny
-low impedance
-balanced out
-bt5+LDAC
-noiseless
-low crosstalk

minor cons:
-digital volume controls are really slow to adjust compared to knobs. especially how somewhat hard to press they are
-different volume levels memorized for both USB DAC and bluetooth, which can take you surprise if you switch over to the other and it blasts you all of a sudden
-gloss makes it easy to slip out of your hand or wherever you put it. i'd buy (or 3d print) a case for this
-it advertises an equalizer, but it doesn't work for LDAC, which Fiio says they'll try to implement by Sept '20, and it doesn't work at all for PC. Not a big deal for me since I can use a 3rd party PC software to EQ it.
-whats the point of turning off charging, to save charge cycles? the battery is constantly draining when hooked to PC, when it hits 0% it wont work until it gets some charge, so you still have to leave it on . i want to be able to leave it connected to the pc forever without degrading the battery health. That's how my topping NX4 died. I hope an update fixes this.


----------



## ClieOS

davidtriune said:


> -whats the point of turning off charging, to save charge cycles? the battery is constantly draining when hooked to PC, when it hits 0% it wont work until it gets some charge, so you still have to leave it on . i want to be able to leave it connected to the pc forever without degrading the battery health. That's how my topping NX4 died. I hope an update fixes this.



So people who use it mainly as smartphone's USB DAC won't drain the smartphone's battery.

Also, charging setting can be changed via either menu or app.


----------



## Ocelitgol (Aug 4, 2020)

davidtriune said:


> I love this cheap balanced amp
> 
> pros:
> -tiny
> ...


I love the separate volume control actually. I watch movies on my laptop a lot, and listen to music on my phone, so It's nice to set a normalized volume for movies (sometimes too quiet) and music (if used the same with movies's volume, it's piercing). Just my experience so far 
p/s: I use BT for movies, usb for music (sometimes BT as well)


----------



## fonkepala

Ocelitgol said:


> I love the separate volume control actually. I watch movies on my laptop a lot, and listen to music on my phone, so It's nice to set a normalized volume for movies (sometimes too quiet) and music (if used the same with movies's volume, it's piercing). Just my experience so far
> p/s: I use BT for movies, usb for music (sometimes BT as well)



Is there a noticeable lag between what's on screen and what you're hearing when watching movies using the BTR5?


----------



## Xenderos

Did anyone had a problem with BTR5 and Tidal Hi-Fi/Master? I installed USB2 driver for Fiio BTR5 (Windows 10) and I allowed for exclusive control both in audio settings in Windows and in Tidal. Unfortunately Tidal frequently fails to switch sample rate for given song and songs after the first launch of Tidal, plays too fast. Disabling and re-enabling exclusive control in Tidal temporally solve this issue but this is really annoying.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 4, 2020)

fonkepala said:


> Is there a noticeable lag between what's on screen and what you're hearing when watching movies using the BTR5?


The BTR5 works fine - stays in sync - on both USB DAC and BT on a Windows 10 PC using the Built in BT support (Gigabyte B450), same for BT on the Samsung S20 Ultra / Note 10+, and BT on the Samsung Tab S6 / Samsung TabA.  I'm sensitive to this audio sync lag between screen movement and audio, I would have noticed.


Xenderos said:


> Did anyone had a problem with BTR5 and Tidal Hi-Fi/Master? I installed USB2 driver for Fiio BTR5 (Windows 10) and I allowed for exclusive control both in audio settings in Windows and in Tidal. Unfortunately Tidal frequently fails to switch sample rate for given song and songs after the first launch of Tidal, plays too fast. Disabling and re-enabling exclusive control in Tidal temporally solve this issue but this is really annoying.


The BTR5 is stable for me on MQA. My BTR5 is on firmware 1.0.6 and using the Tidal App on Windows 10 with the BTR5 hooked up in USB DAC mode I'm not seeing any problems.

The BTR5 is connected to the PC using a 1m USB 3.0 cable plugged in to the back panel of the motherboard.  My top panel USB's already have too much cable length internally and I do have USB dropouts with my FiiO M15 using that top panel USB, but the BTR5 has never dropped out plugged in with the same cable to that top panel USB.

You might try different USB ports, plug in with a different / shorter cable to the convenient port, or try plugging in to the back panel directly into the motherboard.

The driver is not not needed for BTR USB DAC mode - FiiO driver 4.47.0.0. I run without the FiiO control panel loaded (v0.2E) most of the time as it simply shows "ASIO not active". If you want to use DSD then you would want to install the driver / load the FiiO Control panel.

I have the Windows BTR5 device (FiiO Q Series) set for 384k and the FiiO control panel can be useful to see what the current sample rate is - 48k right now playing MQA, starting with playlist track 59 - raindrops (an angel cried) (live) :
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/17553b24-9a30-4516-b99c-914cc2370801




Updated to disable "Passthrough MQA"

I'm listening using a Sennheiser 598cs with a 4.4mm balanced cable + 4.4mm to 2.5mm balanced adapter connected to the BTR5 2.5mm balanced port - L Gain, Volume 30.

I got the balanced cable so I could use the higher power output of the BTR5 / M15 balanced output - compared to the 3.5mm SE output.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ng-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/post-15783077

Here's a playlist of 192khz MQA's I enjoy:
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/bd51ad45-df8a-4333-8615-d7526b80b70a

*BTW, the FiiO BTR3k plays the same MQA setup as above using the 2.5mm output to the Sennheiser 598cs's, and drives them much better on balanced 2.5mm than from the 3.5mm SE output.*


----------



## Xenderos

@hmscott 
Thanks for your answer. Without Fiio driver, MQA didn't work at all, there were only background noise and no music. After installation of the driver is working fine. In my case ASIO is disabled all the time, I don't how to enable ASIO.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 4, 2020)

Xenderos said:


> @hmscott
> Thanks for your answer. Without Fiio driver, MQA didn't work at all, there were only background noise and no music. After installation of the driver is working fine. In my case ASIO is disabled all the time, I don't how to enable ASIO.


Interesting.  When I first got the BTR5 I didn't install the FiiO driver and everything worked fine.  I finally installed the driver only to discover that the ASIO used for DSD is otherwise inactive, and that the BTR3k isn't recognized or supported by the FiiO driver.

I haven't uninstalled the FiiO driver since then and started using Tidal / MQA after that.  I guess I could try uninstalling the FiiO driver now and see if MQA stops working, brb. 

*Update* - When I first uninstalled the FiiO driver and rebooted it took changing the default device from the BTR3k to the Topping D90 and back to the BTR3k and now I can listen to all the same audio sources.  Youtube, Tidal (exclusive and non), etc.  Before I did that I didn't have audio in anything through the BTR3k.

I also have the Topping ASIO driver installed but it shows the connected device as the Topping D90 - in the Topping control panel, btw it's version 4.82 - a fair bit ahead of the FiiO 4.47 version.

I wouldn't uninstall the FiiO driver if things are working ok for you - I didn't have a problem with MQA exclusive mode in Tidal with the Fiio driver installed.  I'll reinstall the FiiO driver, I'll check for a new version first.

Update: FYI - the BTR3k doesn't show up in or use the FiiO driver / control panel and it is playing Tidal in Exclusive mode MQA.  So I don't think the BTR5 needs that FiiO driver for MQA either.

I did run into the usual funniness after uninstalling and reinstalling a driver.  I needed to unmute the device and switch back and forth between another device before it started playing.

So if your BTR5 is silent, play around with switching back and forth in the Sound Control Panel changing to another device and back to kick the BTR5 connection into working.  I just had that same problem after uninstalling the FiiO driver and then again re-installing the FiiO 4.47 driver.

Now it's all working again and everything is playing fine through the BTR5 and BTR3k, including Tidal MQA files playing in Exclusive mode set in the Tidal app Settings => Streaming device.




Updated to disable "Passthrough MQA"


----------



## Xenderos

Regarding Tidal MQA, if you have Passthrough MQA enabled with BTR5, basically you are skipping software MQA unfolding and it is not supported on BTR5 side, so you are ending with non-MQA track.

I removed the Fiio driver and I tested it for a few minutes and it looks like it works better that way, less buggy. I also think that 24 bit, 96 kHz is enough for me. MQA is also working fine, I am curious if exclusive control (sample rate switching) will work after some time. Are there any quality benefits from using BTR5 with Fiio driver, like better sound quality (other than more bits and kHz, because I probably can't hear the difference between 24 vs 32 bits).

I could try again to install the driver but at this point, I think that the driver may be a little buggy and have some problem in communication between Tidal exclusive control and BTR5 (sample rate switching).

Additionally, what about latency in USB1.0 mode? It is important for me because I play games from time to time and I prefer the lowest latency.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 4, 2020)

Xenderos said:


> Regarding Tidal MQA, if you have Passthrough MQA enabled with BTR5, basically you are skipping software MQA unfolding and it is not supported on BTR5 side, so you are ending with non-MQA track.
> 
> I removed the Fiio driver and I tested it for a few minutes and it looks like it works better that way, less buggy. I also think that 24 bit, 96 kHz is enough for me. MQA is also working fine, I am curious if exclusive control (sample rate switching) will work after some time. Are there any quality benefits from using BTR5 with Fiio driver, like better sound quality (other than more bits and kHz, because I probably can't hear the difference between 24 vs 32 bits).
> 
> ...


For the BTR5 I can Enable "Exclusive Mode", Enable "Force volume" output to 100%, and leave Passthrough Disabled:


I don't think the FiiO driver does anything unless you run DSD's from the PC.  I've run with it and without it, and decided to leave it installed for the day I get around to playing with DSD's.  I also have the Topping D90 driver installed for the same reason.

We can set the bit rate in the Sound control panel for the BTR5 / BTR3k / etc devices, here is the setting for the BTR5, I didn't check if the sample rate options are more or less with / without the FiiO driver:

Again, I don't think the driver is used at all with Tidal MQA exclusive mode.

Running without the driver is probably easiest 

As far as USB 1.0 mode, I've tried it - it limits throughput and sample rate options - sounds less good, but so far I haven't run into a reason to use it so I keep the setting on USB 2.0.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 4, 2020)

archy121 said:


> I was referring to using BTR5 in DAC mode connected via cable and doing Hardware unfolding of MQA and not dependent on the software media player.
> 
> For me the key tangible benefits of going from BTR3 to BTR5 are the battery, 2.5mm jack and lastly but very importantly DAC mode over cable that supports DSD256 & 384Khz.
> With so much going for the BTR5, it seems a shame  that MQA unfolding is not available to make it a  complete formidable offering.
> ...


Have you heard any more on FiiO support for MQA unfolding on the BTR5?


FiiO said:


> Thanks for your feedback. But the MQA support may not be added for the BTR5. We will try to add the support in our later DAC product. Stay tuned.
> Best regards


@FiiO - is MQA unfolding support on the BTR5 developers list for a future firmware update?  Is that possible?  To what later DAC product are you considering adding MQA support?


----------



## letlive

Is ist possible to turn Bluetooth off while using the BTR5 in USB mode?


----------



## fonkepala

hmscott said:


> The BTR5 works fine - stays in sync - on both USB DAC and BT on a Windows 10 PC using the Built in BT support (Gigabyte B450), same for BT on the Samsung S20 Ultra / Note 10+, and BT on the Samsung Tab S6 / Samsung TabA.  I'm sensitive to this audio sync lag between screen movement and audio, I would have noticed.



Thanks for your input. My Fiio M6 has very noticeable video-audio sync lag when connected to my computer over both BT & USB. It's my one major gripe with the device. Good to know the BTR5 doesn't have the same shortcoming.


----------



## RH64

Is anyone having bluetooth connectivity problems with the BTR5?  I'm connecting to an android and if I move around, put my hand on the device, anything it will stutter like it's out of range.

I love the device and am hoping to find a fix for this.

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## hmscott

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for your input. My Fiio M6 has very noticeable video-audio sync lag when connected to my computer over both BT & USB. It's my one major gripe with the device. Good to know the BTR5 doesn't have the same shortcoming.


I've have a similar experience displaying video on the m15, it's not quite "laggy", but it's got traces occasionally of "kung foo-ness" in Youtube playback, and that's all local.

The BTR5 / BTR3k don't have Android "slowing them down"


----------



## hmscott

RH64 said:


> Is anyone having bluetooth connectivity problems with the BTR5?  I'm connecting to an android and if I move around, put my hand on the device, anything it will stutter like it's out of range.
> 
> I love the device and am hoping to find a fix for this.
> 
> ...


The BTR5 can exhibit that behavior, but I've learned to live with it.  For the most part it's workable.  Keep your source in direct line of site - it depends on the source too.  I can get longer distance via newer devices with BT 5.0, but even good BT4.2 devices will give longer range.

The BTR3k has slightly better BT range in my home.  The same areas where the BTR5 fades the BTR3k is still going strong.

The BTR5 distance is variable.  On my Samsung S20 / S6 Tab I get longer distances than my BT 4.2 PC.

I keep them both external, I don't put the BTR5 / BTR3k in a pocket or obscure the path with my body, that helps too.


----------



## RH64

Thanks for the response.  Can this be right though?  My ES100 and Bose QC35 don't exhibit this at all.  IT seems like bluetooth connectivity is pretty important for this device.


----------



## jsmiller58

RH64 said:


> Thanks for the response.  Can this be right though?  My ES100 and Bose QC35 don't exhibit this at all.  IT seems like bluetooth connectivity is pretty important for this device.


Probably a function of the antenna design, or the circuit power employed.  Really, you should expect different devices to have different ranges.  As @hmscott says, you can figure out what works.  But if you are not satisfied then hopefully you are still within a return period.


----------



## fonkepala

RH64 said:


> Is anyone having bluetooth connectivity problems with the BTR5?  I'm connecting to an android and if I move around, put my hand on the device, anything it will stutter like it's out of range.
> 
> I love the device and am hoping to find a fix for this.
> 
> ...



Is this a common problem with the BTR5? I'd hate it if this happened to me. Very concerning...


----------



## ClieOS

fonkepala said:


> Is this a common problem with the BTR5? I'd hate it if this happened to me. Very concerning...



Not to me, I get quite good a range on BTR5 with my Xperia 5. Obviously it depends on different factors as others have pointed out.


----------



## fonkepala

RH64 said:


> Thanks for the response.  Can this be right though?  My ES100 and Bose QC35 don't exhibit this at all.  IT seems like bluetooth connectivity is pretty important for this device.



Can you elaborate more on the specific situation when this happened? E.g distances, walls blocking the signal, what device, etc.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 6, 2020)

RH64 said:


> Thanks for the response.  Can this be right though?  My ES100 and Bose QC35 don't exhibit this at all.  IT seems like bluetooth connectivity is pretty important for this device.


It is dependent on the transmitter compatibility with the BTR5 receiver as to what kind of distance between the devices is seen.  My PC doesn't have an external BT antenna and the area open to the BT signal is small and points away from where the BTR5 is used, so it will be sensitive to any objects in between - like my body or walls.  The BTR5 between the newish Samsung devices running newest BT radio with better antenna patterns have a greater range.

For me the BTR3k BT performs a little bit better than the BTR5 in some situations, but IDK if I'd pick the BTR3k over the BTR5 for BT.  The BTR3k has great sound too.  

Find a way to keep the BTR5 free of obstacles between it and the BT transmitter, wear the BTR5 outside - not in a pocket or backpack, for example - expose the BTR5 to a clear path in the direction of the source and see if you can elevate the source or make it's BT antenna more accessible to the BTR5.

It's not just the BTR5 that has these BT particulars, it's all BT devices - some are much worse.


----------



## Xenderos

Something is definitely broken with Fiio USB Driver. When I am using it, Tidal plays songs faster than it should and it sounds ridiculous. I need to switch off and on exclusive mode in Tidal to fix that each time I run Tidal ;P


----------



## RH64

Yeah, let me give more info on the BT problem.

First, I have used the ES100 in this exact same use case and had no problems whatsoever.

My music is coming from my laptop  on my desk and connecting via BT to the BTR5 that is on my AV stand connected to my receiver.  The distance between the two is 9.4 feet.  There is generally nothing in between the two.

If I swap out the ES100 in this situation, the connection is flawless.

A second use case.  Using the same computer, if I sit at the desk and connect the BTR5 to my headphones, the signal will also cut out or stutter if I move or even just randomly.  The distance in this case would be approximately 1.5 feet.

If I swap out the BTR5 for my QC35, again there is no problem.

Are others seeing this?  Is there some sort of update?  I understand that BT can be dependent on many things, but the fact that other, older devices are not showing these symptoms, and this seems like a very basic case (less than 10 feet max and no obstructions) makes this seem like a problem of the BTR5.

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## jsmiller58

RH64 said:


> Yeah, let me give more info on the BT problem.
> 
> First, I have used the ES100 in this exact same use case and had no problems whatsoever.
> 
> ...


“makes this seem like a problem of the BTR5”

Not all BT devices are identical in their performance.  You have likely found one (BTR5) that has less range or ability to handle obstructions than another (ES100).  I have a similar observation with my ES100 and BTR5.  I am certain if we looked hard enough we would find another device that performs better than the ES100, and another worse than the BTR5.

I don’t think it is a “problem” with the BTR5.  Just that in this particular case the ES100 performs better.  Kind of like cars, some have better gas mileage than others or better acceleration or braking... etc.


----------



## Romeo Dolorosa

For those who might remember me, I still haven't bought a BTR5 but expressed interested a few months ago - is there anyone that has tested the BTR5 with a *PS4 Pro*?
There were talks about the PS4 when the topic of the incompatibility with the Switch came up but I didn't find any follow-up posts regarding this subject.

I would appreciate if someone could tell me if it works before I buy because money is still tight on my side due to the recent events and I would probably wait for another comparable device that works with this console. 
Also, how has the battery life on those Fiio devices been in the past? Is is realistic to expect a few years of use out the BTR5?

Thanks in advance for looking into my questions!


----------



## hmscott

Romeo Dolorosa said:


> For those who might remember me, I still haven't bought a BTR5 but expressed interested a few months ago - is there anyone that has tested the BTR5 with a *PS4 Pro*?
> There were talks about the PS4 when the topic of the incompatibility with the Switch came up but I didn't find any follow-up posts regarding this subject.
> 
> I would appreciate if someone could tell me if it works before I buy because money is still tight on my side due to the recent events and I would probably wait for another comparable device that works with this console.
> ...


The BTR3 and new BTR3k in USB DAC mode work with the switch, but I got rid of my PS4 / Xbox a while back as I was playing more PC games.  I was actually looking for a console fix recently - but I couldn't find a console to purchase... all the sites I checked had only used/refurb units - even MS Store was out of everything, what happened?

Anyway, I've searched before for PS4/Xbox compatibility with BTR5 / BTR3k in USB DAC mode and found nothing, just like now... weird right?  You'd think someone would have tried it by now...

The BTR5 in USB DAC mode is incompatible with the Nintendo switch, but the BTR3k works, so if you want play around with testing USB DAC mode I'd invest in the BTR3k first and see if that works with the PS4 / Xbox as it's less expensive than the BTR5 and cheap enough to dedicate to the task long term if the BTR3k does work.

If you just want to use the BTR5 / BTR3k as a Bluetooth receiver with the PS4 that might work too, the PS4 advertises connecting  with BT headphones (receivers) so it might just be a matter of the usual connection dance.  That may be why we don't hear about the BTR5 / BTR3k and PS4 / Xbox as BT connectivity - maybe it just works?

I hope that helps a bit


----------



## fonkepala

hmscott said:


> If you just want to use the BTR5 / BTR3k as a Bluetooth receiver with the PS4 that might work too, the PS4 advertises connecting  with BT headphones (receivers) so it might just be a matter of the usual connection dance.  That may be why we don't hear about the BTR5 / BTR3k and PS4 / Xbox as BT connectivity - maybe it just works?
> 
> I hope that helps a bit



I can't recall why exactly, but I think the last time I tried to use my one pair of BT headphone (AKG Y50BT) with the PS4 it didn't work. Could've been something wrong that I did or simple incompatibility.


----------



## pstickne

Kentajalli said:


> "Conservation of energy" states that in a closed system, no energy is lost or gained .. can get drained is either by *Heat dissipation* (Fiio getting hotter) or..


Well, that explains the abysmal battery life vs capacity of the Q5s


----------



## Xenderos

I found that Tidal in exclusive mode with WASAPI really makes a mess with BTR5. For some time it works fine and then suddenly it doesn't set a valid sampling rate, after that songs play too fast or too slow. Even after closing Tidal app, BTR5 is stuck in the sampling rate wrongly set by Tidal, to fix that I need to launch Tidal again, then turn off and on exclusive mode and play any song. It is really interesting because there is definitely a problem with Tidal, wasapi, and BTR5 but I don't know which one is responsible.

On the other hand, Tidal through Audirvana with ASIO mode works fine, switches the sampling rate perfectly. I may end up buying the full version of Audirvana...


----------



## hmscott

thebearded1 said:


> I've been searching online for the same question.  Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4?  I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5.  I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work.  The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out.  Thoughts?


Hey, just got emailed about a new dongle from Creative built to dedicate to provide BT for PS4 / Nintendo Switch:

"Enjoy wireless audio on your PS4™ or Nintendo Switch™ with BT-W3! Creative BT-W3 is a portable _Bluetooth_ audio transmitter equipped with the latest _Bluetooth_ version 5.0 and advanced audio codecs like aptX™ LL and aptX™ HD. With a simple plug-and-play functionality, you can easily enjoy high-quality _Bluetooth_ audio with your PS4™, Nintendo Switch™, PC, or Mac. "
https://us.creative.com/p/speakers/creative-bt-w3

I haven't tried it yet, but early on I used the predecessor  the BT-W2, and this new revision looks like it's completely up to date and what I've been waiting for someone to provide - a cost effective all around update for BT on the Nintendo, PS4, and PC.

It's also available on Amazon, but make sure you click the right product option otherwise you'll get the years older W2... we want the W3 

Creative BT-W3 Bluetooth 5.0 USB-C Audio Transmitter, aptX LL and aptX HD, 3.5 mm Analog Mic for Voice Chat Support, Codec Indicator and Selection, Plug-and-Play for PS4, Nintendo Switch, PC, and Mac
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089PYFLBN

I've been looking for an updated BT for my PC too, it's still on BT 4.1, worth a try


----------



## littlenezt

hi there, noob questions regarding btr5 + usage with headphone amplifier *EG FiiO A5, can i just use the BTR5 on max volume and plug the 3.5mm to the FiiO A5 or is it gonna double amplified the signal?

thanks in advance


----------



## Devodonaldson

littlenezt said:


> hi there, noob questions regarding btr5 + usage with headphone amplifier *EG FiiO A5, can i just use the BTR5 on max volume and plug the 3.5mm to the FiiO A5 or is it gonna double amplified the signal?
> 
> thanks in advance


No line out feature for btr5. I've connected mine to a different portable amp without issue. Didn't run volume at max though. 60 to 80max is my idea for best audio. Max volume may cause some distortion through your amp, or at the very least give you little volume with which to work with on your amps potentiometer.


----------



## fonkepala

littlenezt said:


> hi there, noob questions regarding btr5 + usage with headphone amplifier *EG FiiO A5, can i just use the BTR5 on max volume and plug the 3.5mm to the FiiO A5 or is it gonna double amplified the signal?
> 
> thanks in advance


I think that would technically be double amping. Whether distortion or hiss would be apparent depends on your equipment & subjective hearing, I guess. YMMV


----------



## littlenezt

fonkepala said:


> I think that would technically be double amping. Whether distortion or hiss would be apparent depends on your equipment & subjective hearing, I guess. YMMV





Devodonaldson said:


> No line out feature for btr5. I've connected mine to a different portable amp without issue. Didn't run volume at max though. 60 to 80max is my idea for best audio. Max volume may cause some distortion through your amp, or at the very least give you little volume with which to work with on your amps potentiometer.



ooft, thats too bad then.. 
guess i cancel trying to use my dt990 250ohm with btr5 stacks
thanks for the info,

cheers


----------



## megabigeye

littlenezt said:


> hi there, noob questions regarding btr5 + usage with headphone amplifier *EG FiiO A5, can i just use the BTR5 on max volume and plug the 3.5mm to the FiiO A5 or is it gonna double amplified the signal?
> 
> thanks in advance


Do you already have both the BTR5 and the A5? If so, why not just try it? It shouldn't hurt anything. I'm currently using the BTR5 with my E12A and DT 1990. Sounds okay, but I can't really do any close listening since my air conditioner is going.


----------



## vmiguel

littlenezt said:


> hi there, noob questions regarding btr5 + usage with headphone amplifier *EG FiiO A5, can i just use the BTR5 on max volume and plug the 3.5mm to the FiiO A5 or is it gonna double amplified the signal?
> 
> thanks in advance


Using btr5 with Little Dot mk2 amp, beyerdynamic dt150 and hd6xx with great results and zero problems.


----------



## MrWalkman

hmscott said:


> The BTR3 and new BTR3k in USB DAC mode work with the switch, but I got rid of my PS4 / Xbox a while back as I was playing more PC games.  I was actually looking for a console fix recently - but I couldn't find a console to purchase... all the sites I checked had only used/refurb units - even MS Store was out of everything, what happened?
> 
> Anyway, I've searched before for PS4/Xbox compatibility with BTR5 / BTR3k in USB DAC mode and found nothing, just like now... weird right?  You'd think someone would have tried it by now...
> 
> ...



Did you try switching the BTR5 from USB 2.0 to USB 1.0?


----------



## littlenezt

vmiguel said:


> Using btr5 with Little Dot mk2 amp, beyerdynamic dt150 and hd6xx with great results and zero problems.


may i ask on what volume did you set the btr5 while using the little dot mk2 amp?



megabigeye said:


> Do you already have both the BTR5 and the A5? If so, why not just try it? It shouldn't hurt anything. I'm currently using the BTR5 with my E12A and DT 1990. Sounds okay, but I can't really do any close listening since my air conditioner is going.


earlier when i ask the question im still planning to buy the A5, since it seems a nice idea to have bluetooth setup + a bit more power from the A5, and i can also use it with my DF Cobalt, also not sure if DFC have line out or not *a bit out of topic tho since this is btr5 thread*

now i already bought the A5, and ive tried using it with the btr5 on hi gain max volume, seems decent with no obvious clipping or distortion. im a bit concerned on the battery consumption of the btr5 tho.

sorry, i hope my english not too confusing


----------



## megabigeye (Aug 11, 2020)

littlenezt said:


> may i ask on what volume did you set the btr5 while using the little dot mk2 amp?
> 
> 
> earlier when i ask the question im still planning to buy the A5, since it seems a nice idea to have bluetooth setup + a bit more power from the A5, and i can also use it with my DF Cobalt, also not sure if DFC have line out or not *a bit out of topic tho since this is btr5 thread*
> ...


I tried it on both max volume and a little bit under.  I couldn't detect a difference, but, like I said, the A/C was making a lot of noise.  Battery shouldn't be too big an issue, I don't think, since the high input impedance on the A5 means the BTR5 only has to provide very little current...  On the other hand, maxing the volume might eat into the battery.  I'm not too sure about that, though.
I didn't think to set the BTR5 to high gain...  I'll try that, too.

I believe the DFC should work with the A5.  Last I remember, you have to lower the DFC's volume slightly to avoid clipping.  I used to use my E12A with a DFR.  Worked great.

EDIT: trying now with BTR5 on high gain.  I also turned the air conditioner off, so can listen a little more closely.  Sounds fine, if a bit...  lifeless?  Veiled?  Muffled?  Muddy?  I don't like to use words like that because I don't think they're very descriptive, but I'm not sure what exactly I'm hearing.  In fact, I'm so unsure that it could be my mood or my energy level or simply misremembering how these headphones sound normally...
...  Oh.  Wait a minute.  I forgot I had the bass boost on the E12A turned on...  Sounds somewhat better now.  But maybe still not quite 100%.


----------



## vmiguel

littlenezt said:


> may i ask on what volume did you set the btr5 while using the little dot mk2 amp?
> 
> 
> earlier when i ask the question im still planning to buy the A5, since it seems a nice idea to have bluetooth setup + a bit more power from the A5, and i can also use it with my DF Cobalt, also not sure if DFC have line out or not *a bit out of topic tho since this is btr5 thread*
> ...


Too many variables! 😄
Normaly I have btr5 on max and LD amp on 9 or 10 o'clock with beyer and 11 or 12 with hd6xx. This with internal amp gain on 4.
Now I'm testing with 50 on btr5 and a little more on the amp.


----------



## littlenezt (Aug 11, 2020)

vmiguel said:


> Too many variables! 😄
> Normaly I have btr5 on max and LD amp on 9 or 10 o'clock with beyer and 11 or 12 with hd6xx. This with internal amp gain on 4.
> Now I'm testing with 50 on btr5 and a little more on the amp.


did the btr5 battery drain crazily on max volume?



megabigeye said:


> I tried it on both max volume and a little bit under.  I couldn't detect a difference, but, like I said, the A/C was making a lot of noise.  Battery shouldn't be too big an issue, I don't think, since the high input impedance on the A5 means the BTR5 only has to provide very little current...  On the other hand, maxing the volume might eat into the battery.  I'm not too sure about that, though.
> I didn't think to set the BTR5 to high gain...  I'll try that, too.
> 
> I believe the DFC should work with the A5.  Last I remember, you have to lower the DFC's volume slightly to avoid clipping.  I used to use my E12A with a DFR.  Worked great.
> ...


THIS !
with BTR5 volume on 60 hi gain, FiiO A5 also on hi gain somehow i feel the music is a bit lifeless, flat ? like the dynamic range isnt there, dont know what the correct terms to describe it tho.
gonna try with hi gain on lower volume

*trying with dt990 250ohm and senn hd600


----------



## megabigeye

littlenezt said:


> did the btr5 battery drain crazily on max volume?
> 
> 
> THIS !
> ...


My guess is that it's because the BTR5 doesn't quite provide a 2V "line level" output.


----------



## littlenezt (Aug 11, 2020)

megabigeye said:


> My guess is that it's because the BTR5 doesn't quite provide a 2V "line level" output.


i've tried using hi gain lower volume, low gain max vol, hi gain max vol + FiiO A5 hi gain, low gain.
the sounds somehow feels lifeless to the point it just better off plug the headphone directly to the btr5 without any external amp 
also with hi gain, max vol, the battery drains fast


----------



## vmiguel

littlenezt said:


> did the btr5 battery drain crazily on max volume?
> 
> 
> THIS !
> ...


I really don't keep track of play hours. I just charge it while listening, when I notice the battery bellow half.


----------



## Facta

BTR5 doesn't sport a dedicated amplifier chip as Lotoo S1 does?


----------



## Ocelitgol

I just noticed that the built in calculator does not reflect changes when switching Low Gain to High Gain. It does, however, reflect changes from 3.5mm to 2.5mm


----------



## Romeo Dolorosa

hmscott said:


> Hey, just got emailed about a new dongle from Creative built to dedicate to provide BT for PS4 / Nintendo Switch:
> "... a simple plug-and-play functionality, you can easily enjoy high-quality _Bluetooth_ audio with your PS4™, Nintendo Switch™, PC, or Mac. "


Thank you for both your replies, hmscott. 
Am I understanding this right, this is a dongle that I plug into my PS4 (Pro) that my portable amp or headphones connects to via BT and that offers the codecs you mentioned in your post because the PS4 won't handshake with a portable amp (due to different iterations of BT or something else)?  

Does the dongle get the an uncompressed signal over USB or how does that work? Does it act like a USB soundcard? Please excuse these questions but I am still new to this audio over BT stuff.


----------



## Radio81

Romeo Dolorosa said:


> Thank you for both your replies, hmscott.
> Am I understanding this right, this is a dongle that I plug into my PS4 (Pro) that my portable amp or headphones connects to via BT and that offers the codecs you mentioned in your post because the PS4 won't handshake with a portable amp (due to different iterations of BT or something else)?
> 
> Does the dongle get the an uncompressed signal over USB or how does that work? Does it act like a USB soundcard? Please excuse these questions but I am still new to this audio over BT stuff.



Yes, you plug the BT-W3 into your PS4, and it will send BT audio to your BT amp or headphones.  It will be stereo only on PS4.  The audio it sends varies upon the capability of the BT device you are using, SBC, AptX-HD, LL, etc.  Chat audio on PS4 still needs the included BT-W3 3.5mm chat adapter, or other means of external mic, such as modmic or similar.  I just received my BT-W3 today and will post impressions of it with PS4 once I've spent some time with it.

I'm waiting to see what the PS5 will be able to send via USB.  If it can send processed surround audio via BT, then I will either pick up a BT3K or BTR5, and connect to my wired headphones to pair with the BT-W3.


----------



## Demien75

I'm interested in buying a portable DAC. I saw the Mi5 Fiio at first but was not convinced because it could not be used with Spotify on the mobile. Now I'm between the Fiio BTR5 and the BTR3K

Which of these two is better?  My priority is sound quality with bluetooth headphones, I previously used the Meizu DAC Hi-Fi pro, but was not convinced and will sell it.


----------



## jsmiller58

Demien75 said:


> I'm interested in buying a portable DAC. I saw the Mi5 Fiio at first but was not convinced because it could not be used with Spotify on the mobile. Now I'm between the Fiio BTR5 and the BTR3K
> 
> Which of these two is better?  My priority is sound quality with bluetooth headphones, I previously used the Meizu DAC Hi-Fi pro, but was not convinced and will sell it.


You wrote “My priority is sound quality with *bluetooth headphones*”

Neither the BTR5 or BTR3K will drive Bluetooth headphone.  These are Bluetooth receivers that you connect wired headphones to.


----------



## Demien75

jsmiller58 said:


> You wrote “My priority is sound quality with *bluetooth headphones*”
> 
> Neither the BTR5 or BTR3K will drive Bluetooth headphone.  These are Bluetooth receivers that you connect wired headphones to.


I misspoke, yes, I meant by giving them a headphones for Jack.

Which one sounds better?


----------



## jsmiller58

Demien75 said:


> I misspoke, yes, I meant by giving them a headphones for Jack.
> 
> Which one sounds better?


No worries!  I do not have the BTR3K, so I cannot compare, but I am sure others on this thread will be able to.  Use the search function on this thread and look for BTR3K, as I know I have seen a few observations / opinions posted here.


----------



## ClieOS

Demien75 said:


> I'm interested in buying a portable DAC. I saw the Mi5 Fiio at first but was not convinced because it could not be used with Spotify on the mobile. Now I'm between the Fiio BTR5 and the BTR3K
> 
> Which of these two is better?  My priority is sound quality with bluetooth headphones, I previously used the Meizu DAC Hi-Fi pro, but was not convinced and will sell it.



Depends on your headphone. If it needs more power to shine, then BTR5. If not, BTR3K is just as good.


----------



## Rippersyte

ClieOS said:


> Depends on your headphone. If it needs more power to shine, then BTR5. If not, BTR3K is just as good.


What are the things that we should look in order for us to know that our headphones need more power to shine?


----------



## ClieOS

Rippersyte said:


> What are the things that we should look in order for us to know that our headphones need more power to shine?



There are two common sign - First is the simple kind that the headphone doesn't sound loud enough. This is usually headphones that has high impedance and low sensitivity. There is where more voltage from the amp section can help. Second is the more complicated kind with headphone doesn't sound 'tight' enough (a.k.a. 'soft' sounding) even with enough volume. This is usually headphones that has very low impedance but relatively high sensitivity (i.e. many multi-driver, single digit impedance IEM belong here). This is where more current (+ reserved current) from the amp section can help.


----------



## Kaleidpl

Does anyone have experience with connecting BTR5 to car audio via USB C - Jack 3.5 cable? I'm going to get the car which is equipped only with usb C slots (no more traditional usb). And I'm curious if I can manage us my Fiio and stream better quality musi to car audio system using cable from Amazon.


----------



## ClieOS (Aug 16, 2020)

Kaleidpl said:


> Does anyone have experience with connecting BTR5 to car audio via USB C - Jack 3.5 cable? I'm going to get the car which is equipped only with usb C slots (no more traditional usb). And I'm curious if I can manage us my Fiio and stream better quality musi to car audio system using cable from Amazon.



You want to connect BTR5's 3.5mm output to a car Type-C port? Don't bother as Type-C port doesn't work that way (in fact, no even with regular USB-A).

Surely your car has Bluetooth? Just connect your smartphone directly to your car's stereo via Bluetooth. If you really want to use BTR5 in your car, find a cable that connect BTR5's 3.5mm output to the car's stereo AUX input (*which usually is a pair of RCA sockets hidden on the back side of the stereo unit, but it can be different connector depends on the car stereo system). If you don't know how to find the AUX input of the stereo unit, ask the dealer or an car audio shop to help.


----------



## Kaleidpl

Of course the car has a Bluetooth etc. But wanted to connect it wired to get better quality. I think that in the newest models of Volkswagen group (VW, Skoda and Seat) they don't have aux but sure - I will ask the diler.


----------



## Traveler843

I'm trying to use my BTR5 as a USB DAC paired with my brand new Sony WH-1000XM4. However, I'm not able to pair the two. I can get the BTR5 into "pairing" mode and so are my Sony headphones, but they never pair. My BTR5 did pair with my iPhone just fine. Ideas?


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 20, 2020)

Traveler843 said:


> I'm trying to use my BTR5 as a USB DAC paired with my brand new Sony WH-1000XM4. However, I'm not able to pair the two. I can get the BTR5 into "pairing" mode and so are my Sony headphones, but they never pair. My BTR5 did pair with my iPhone just fine. Ideas?


The BTR5 is a receiver, not a transmitter...  It will pair wirelessly to your phone or a DAP (those would be transmitters while the BTR5 would be a receiver).  Headphones always have to be wired to the BTR5.


----------



## JerryHead

Hi all, I'm trying to decide between the BTR5 and the Hiby W3.  I plan to use the device with my two iOS devices (iPhone X and iPad Mini) and the Hiby R5.  The BTR5 has a much greater power output (220mw vs 35mw) but the W3 can transmit 24/192 through it's propeitary "UAT" BT.  I'm wondering what's going to ultimately sound better via their respective balanced 2.5mm outputs?  I'll be playing mostly Tidal Hi-Fi and Maters streaming from the iOS devices, but also some high-res tracks stored locally on my iPhone X.  Which is going to sound better between the BTR5 and the W5?  Or is that a stupid question considering I'm on the BTR5 thread?  Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## ClieOS

Unless you are in one of those wireless signal free 'clean room' that blocks out all signal from outside world, UAT is practically useless.


----------



## JerryHead

ClieOS said:


> Unless you are in one of those wireless signal free 'clean room' that blocks out all signal from outside world, UAT is practically useless.


Thanks.  Regarding bluetooth streaming from iOS device to the BTR5, what is the highest sample rate (via Tidal Hi-Fi or localy stored files) that can be transmitted?  48/24?


----------



## ClieOS

JerryHead said:


> Thanks.  Regarding bluetooth streaming from iOS device to the BTR5, what is the highest sample rate (via Tidal Hi-Fi or localy stored files) that can be transmitted?  48/24?



Pretty sure iOS limits it's BT transmission to 16/48 AAC.


----------



## JerryHead

ClieOS said:


> Pretty sure iOS limits it's BT transmission to 16/48 AAC.


And, so how does this sound through the balanced output of the BTR5?  What is the best method at getting the most optimal sound quality out of the BTR5?


----------



## Devodonaldson

JerryHead said:


> And, so how does this sound through the balanced output of the BTR5?  What is the best method at getting the most optimal sound quality out of the BTR5?


Your Hiby R5 will transmit LDAC if you set it so, and can select best sound quality so 900kbps


----------



## JerryHead

Devodonaldson said:


> Your Hiby R5 will transmit LDAC if you set it so, and can select best sound quality so 900kbps


Sorry, I meant out of an iOS device.


----------



## jsmiller58

JerryHead said:


> Hi all, I'm trying to decide between the BTR5 and the Hiby W3.  I plan to use the device with my two iOS devices (iPhone X and iPad Mini) and the Hiby R5.  The BTR5 has a much greater power output (220mw vs 35mw) but the W3 can transmit 24/192 through it's propeitary "UAT" BT.  I'm wondering what's going to ultimately sound better via their respective balanced 2.5mm outputs?  I'll be playing mostly Tidal Hi-Fi and Maters streaming from the iOS devices, but also some high-res tracks stored locally on my iPhone X.  Which is going to sound better between the BTR5 and the W5?  Or is that a stupid question considering I'm on the BTR5 thread?  Thanks for any feedback.


The challenge with UAT (my experience, anyway) is its terrible range - the receiver and transmitter need to be practically next to each other (my recollection is about 10 feet with no obstructions).  Also, both ends have to support UAT.  HiBy devices do, but I don’t know of anything else that does.


----------



## HipHopScribe

JerryHead said:


> And, so how does this sound through the balanced output of the BTR5?  What is the best method at getting the most optimal sound quality out of the BTR5?



With Apple devices you're limited to AAC. They don't support AptX HD or LDAC. You're not gonna get hi-res, but AAC is fine, it's a pretty good codec. Also, you're not gonna get real hi-res with LDAC either. Hi-res is mostly nonsense anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it


----------



## ClieOS

JerryHead said:


> And, so how does this sound through the balanced output of the BTR5?  What is the best method at getting the most optimal sound quality out of the BTR5?



If the source is an iDevice, then you will never get the best out of BT codec. But balanced output on the BTR5 will still get you the best possible SQ.


----------



## JerryHead (Aug 23, 2020)

Thanks everyone.  What about hard wiring an iOS device to the BTR5 (via the lightening port)?  Is that even possible?  And then, without relying on BT, you should be able to get a higher sample rate, and so better quality, correct?


----------



## ClieOS

JerryHead said:


> Thank everyone.  What about hard wiring an iOS device to the BTR5 (via the lightening port)?  Is that even possible?  And then, without relying on BT, you should be able to get a higher sample rate, and so better quality, correct?



You can connect BTR5 to iOS devices via Apple camera connection kit, but most native iOS app will not output more than 16/48 (because they all follow Apple 'standard' USB DAC driver that limits to 16/48). To get Hi-res output, you will also need to use an app that is capable of outputting Hi-res via its own driver, such as Onkyo HF Player.


----------



## JerryHead

ClieOS said:


> You can connect BTR5 to iOS devices via Apple camera connection kit, but most native iOS app will not output more than 16/48 (because they all follow Apple 'standard' USB DAC driver that limits to 16/48). To get Hi-res output, you will also need to use an app that is capable of outputting Hi-res via its own driver, such as Onkyo HF Player.


Ah!  Great, I have the Apple CCK, and I also happen to have the Onkyo HF Player.  And I have Tidal Hi-Fi subscription.  So, sounds like I'm good to go.  I just got to figure out the sample rate Tidal offers out of their iOS app for those with Hi-Fi subscription..


----------



## Devodonaldson

JerryHead said:


> Ah!  Great, I have the Apple CCK, and I also happen to have the Onkyo HF Player.  And I have Tidal Hi-Fi subscription.  So, sounds like I'm good to go.  I just got to figure out the sample rate Tidal offers out of their iOS app for those with Hi-Fi subscription..


Using ifi xdsd, chord Mojo and other USB DACs, iOS outputs bitperfect from Tidal app. 16/44, 24/96 or MQA using an MQA compatible DAC


----------



## rar133

How is the BT transmission between the BTR5 and the Q5s? I have the Q5s, on a usb cable to the pc, it's clean, but on BT, even next to phone, there are often gltches. 
I know there is a physical issue with the Q5s w.r.t to all the metal used, so just wondering if the range and cleanliness of the BTR5 is much better, or a case of Fiio have a crappy BT signal anyway.

thanks.


----------



## kael13

Random aside, I was just looking at my BTR5 today and noticed that it's constructed very well.. Tight tolerances, the buttons are very clicky and offer great feedback, the ports are all correctly lined up and don't move and when you insert a cable into the jack it has a satisfying click. Just feels like quality. 
Can't wait to use the balanced port with my FH3 when it arrives.


----------



## SenorChang8

rar133 said:


> How is the BT transmission between the BTR5 and the Q5s? I have the Q5s, on a usb cable to the pc, it's clean, but on BT, even next to phone, there are often gltches.
> I know there is a physical issue with the Q5s w.r.t to all the metal used, so just wondering if the range and cleanliness of the BTR5 is much better, or a case of Fiio have a crappy BT signal anyway.
> 
> thanks.



I got both and BTR5’s BT signal is a lot stronger than Q5s. Was still listening to my music in the bathroom with the phone in the other room.


----------



## rar133

SenorChang8 said:


> I got both and BTR5’s BT signal is a lot stronger than Q5s. Was still listening to my music in the bathroom with the phone in the other room.


Awesome. This should really eliminate most of the frustration i had with the q5s. What's your opinion of the 2?


----------



## SenorChang8

rar133 said:


> Awesome. This should really eliminate most of the frustration i had with the q5s. What's your opinion of the 2?



I’ve been impressed by the sound quality of the BTR5, it packs some power in its small size. I have yet to do a side by side test but from memory the Q5s did sound slightly better with more headroom and bass is more emphatic. But as we know the BT signal isn’t the best. However the past couple of weeks of just using the BTR5, I haven’t really missed the Q5s, it’s been more than satisfying. I’ve been limited to AAC codec but look forward to hearing it on better ones.


----------



## h2oh

still a nice bluetooth dac for audio on the go


----------



## WarrenR

ClieOS said:


> There are two common sign - First is the simple kind that the headphone doesn't sound loud enough. This is usually headphones that has high impedance and low sensitivity. There is where more voltage from the amp section can help. Second is the more complicated kind with headphone doesn't sound 'tight' enough (a.k.a. 'soft' sounding) even with enough volume. This is usually headphones that has very low impedance but relatively high sensitivity (i.e. many multi-driver, single digit impedance IEM belong here). This is where more current (+ reserved current) from the amp section can help.



Hi.

I'm unsure about whether to get the btr5 or the btr3k.  My headphones are 25 ohm and Sensitivity: 99dBSPL / mW.  Also, I will be using it as a USB DAC mainly.  The Xmos chip is swaying me towards the btr5 but I like the size and the price of the btr3k.  

What would you recommend?


----------



## ClieOS

WarrenR said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm unsure about whether to get the btr5 or the btr3k.  My headphones are 25 ohm and Sensitivity: 99dBSPL / mW.  Also, I will be using it as a USB DAC mainly.  The Xmos chip is swaying me towards the btr5 but I like the size and the price of the btr3k.
> 
> What would you recommend?



Both should be enough to drive your headphone, but BTR5 will be a much better USB DAC than BTR3K.


----------



## WarrenR (Sep 1, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> Both should be enough to drive your headphone, but BTR5 will be a much better USB DAC than BTR3K.



Cheers for the reply.

I've ordered the btr3k now.  I read that with the btr5 using either balanced or unbalanced results in the use of different DACs (single for unbalanced and dual for balanced) but the btr3k using the dual DACs for both outputs.

I know the btr3k is limited to only 48khz connected via usb to a PC but I very rarely listen to hd; only Redbook.


----------



## LoryWiv

boodado said:


> FX-Audio tube buffer for the slight harmonic distortion that just adds a little warmth and tube goodness.


Does raising the second order distortion level in BTR5 app setting have a similar effect?


----------



## LoryWiv

littlenezt said:


> finally someones who explain the distorsion compensation feature.. so by your explanation : if i dial the second harmonic to level 5 and leave the third harmonic on 0 the sound should be more analog / musical and if i leave the second harmonic on 0 and set the third harmonic to level 5 it should give a bit more colder / analytical sound? also one more question, whats the difference between the clock divider level settings?


@littlenezt thanks for sharing the video review. 2 questions:
1. Do the distortion compensation and other settings as adjusted in the phone app. only work when that phone is the music source, or can I adjust settings in the app. that will stay in effect when I stream from my PC to the BTR5?
2. Reviewer mentions a few negatives compared to BTR3, such as ringing and poor bluetooth connection stability. Has that been the experience of other users?

Thanks!


----------



## ClieOS (Sep 2, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> @littlenezt thanks for sharing the video review. 2 questions:
> 1. Do the distortion compensation and other settings as adjusted in the phone app. only work when that phone is the music source, or can I adjust settings in the app. that will stay in effect when I stream from my PC to the BTR5?
> 2. Reviewer mentions a few negatives compared to BTR3, such as ringing and poor bluetooth connection stability. Has that been the experience of other users?
> 
> Thanks!



1. Those setting are stored in the BTR5 itself and will affect all sound regardless of source.

2. Ringing comes from the particular DAC/amp chip used (*more specifically how the DAC manufacturer implements its PCM filter) and not something implemented by FiiO. This means the same ringing will be found on all of the same model of DAC/amp chip, even by other companies that used that exact same chip. Note that BTR3 uses AKM chip while BTR5 uses ESS chip - those two companies do not implement their PCM filter the exact same way, even if they might name them similarly. Those are considered part of these DAC chips' 'house sound' and not a defect. My BTR5's wireless range is fine - I tested in the past that I can get at least 15m in open range / direct line of sight with normal environment of household electronics. Obviously this could be different with different smartphone and environment / interference so it is hard to say it will be the same for everyone else.


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 2, 2020)

@ClieOS that's a very helpful response, appreciated. I have an ESS DAC which I enjoy so won't be concerned about ringing, and it's good to know the settings once made in app stay engaged irrespective of source. I have a BTR5 on it's way and am looking forward to it's arrival!

Sincere thanks!


----------



## speedingcheetah

I read reviews that say the BTR5 the built in device EQ you control via Fiio Control app, does not function when being used as a USB DAC.
Is this still true?
Is there an update firmware being worked on to add this function?

I have a BTR3 and its device level EQ functions while in USB mode.


----------



## darkmark

speedingcheetah said:


> I read reviews that say the BTR5 the built in device EQ you control via Fiio Control app, does not function when being used as a USB DAC.
> Is this still true?
> Is there an update firmware being worked on to add this function?
> 
> I have a BTR3 and its device level EQ functions while in USB mode.


yes it is still true.
No idea about a new firmware but the latest is 1.0.6 to my knowledge.
You may want to use a local eq software like "peace" if you are on a windows PC for example. That will provide you better control than fiio app EQ anyway.


----------



## LoryWiv

I'm enjoying the BTR5 quite a lot but in certain use cases the bluetooth connectivity seems subpar. If I move from the transmitter I experience not only "silent" dropouts but a loud static or thudding noise when they occur. Seems worse when I have the unit clipped to my shirt....I wonder if the clothing is interfering with the BT receiver but not sure where that is located on the unit. Any suggestions for achieving more stable connectivity would be welcomed as overall I love this unit!


----------



## jsmiller58

LoryWiv said:


> I'm enjoying the BTR5 quite a lot but in certain use cases the bluetooth connectivity seems subpar. If I move from the transmitter I experience not only "silent" dropouts but a loud static or thudding noise when they occur. Seems worse when I have the unit clipped to my shirt....I wonder if the clothing is interfering with the BT receiver but not sure where that is located on the unit. Any suggestions for achieving more stable connectivity would be welcomed as overall I love this unit!


I find that the human body is a very effective blocker of Bluetooth signals...  If you have your phone in your back pocket and the receiver on the front of your body there is a chance that will result in poor performance.


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 6, 2020)

I have been experimenting with the  harmonic settings as my desktop is an OTL tube amp. for which some of the characteristic "euphonic" sound id said to be from 2nd order harmonics. Setting 2nd order to "4" w/3rd order at "1" does indeed enhance musicality, and my mid-fi Shozy Form 1.1 have never sounded so good!


----------



## r31ya

I have unique problem, currently playing Horizon Zero Dawn and Fiio BTR5 apparently can't load the speech audio.
I hear the ambient audio but not the conversation.
Want went wrong here?


----------



## fonkepala

r31ya said:


> I have unique problem, currently playing Horizon Zero Dawn and Fiio BTR5 apparently can't load the speech audio.
> I hear the ambient audio but not the conversation.
> Want went wrong here?



That's strange. Is this happening for you on PC?


----------



## XeNoNF50

r31ya said:


> I have unique problem, currently playing Horizon Zero Dawn and Fiio BTR5 apparently can't load the speech audio.
> I hear the ambient audio but not the conversation.
> Want went wrong here?



Some games don't like sample rates above 192khz. Drop it down to 192khz in the windows advanced setting for the device and it may work properly.


----------



## Jaysound

I'm loving the BTR5. I'm using it with a Samsung Galaxy S9, using LDAC.

I've read that the EQ on the BTR5 is disabled when using LDAC. Assuming that's true, my question is whether the filters are also disabled when using LDAC.


----------



## HipHopScribe

Jaysound said:


> I'm loving the BTR5. I'm using it with a Samsung Galaxy S9, using LDAC.
> 
> I've read that the EQ on the BTR5 is disabled when using LDAC. Assuming that's true, my question is whether the filters are also disabled when using LDAC.



No, the filters aren't disabled


----------



## ClieOS

Jaysound said:


> ... my question is whether the filters are also disabled when using LDAC.



Filter can not be disable in any situation as it is part of how the DAC works (*except for non-oversampling / NOS DAC).


----------



## Jaysound

HipHopScribe said:


> No, the filters aren't disabled





ClieOS said:


> Filter can not be disable in any situation as it is part of how the DAC works (*except for non-oversampling / NOS DAC).



Can one see a graphic or text description anywhere of what each filter does? I realize it's a matter of just listening with one's individual combination of equipment, music, ears, and preferences, but it would be nice to have some idea of what they're doing.


----------



## ClieOS

Jaysound said:


> Can one see a graphic or text description anywhere of what each filter does? I realize it's a matter of just listening with one's individual combination of equipment, music, ears, and preferences, but it would be nice to have some idea of what they're doing.



A very simplified explanation: https://velvetsound.akm.com/global/en/technology/
(go to section: Sound color IRD filters: More colorful sound)


----------



## Jaysound

ClieOS said:


> A very simplified explanation: https://velvetsound.akm.com/global/en/technology/
> (go to section: Sound color IRD filters: More colorful sound)


Thanks. That's interesting. But there's no way to get a hint of how the different filters in the BTR5 are behaving? Or even what's most "natural"? Do you think it's reasonable to assume the one that comes default out of the box is the most natural? (If natural is even a valid term.)


----------



## ClieOS

Jaysound said:


> Thanks. That's interesting. But there's no way to get a hint of how the different filters in the BTR5 are behaving? Or even what's most "natural"? Do you think it's reasonable to assume the one that comes default out of the box is the most natural? (If natural is even a valid term.)



There is no universally agreed absolute best filter, and thus you have to be your own judge on which filter sounds best to your ears.


----------



## LoryWiv

ClieOS said:


> A very simplified explanation: https://velvetsound.akm.com/global/en/technology/
> (go to section: Sound color IRD filters: More colorful sound)


Thank you. Please take with a grain of salt as this is for AKM chips, and BTR5 uses ESS chip. Interesting and perhaps generally applicable nonetheless, thanks for sharing @ClieOS.


----------



## Jaysound (Sep 7, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> There is no universally agreed absolute best filter, and thus you have to be your own judge on which filter sounds best to your ears.


I didn't ask about the "best".   I know not to ask that, any more than I'd ask about the best EQ settings. (Or best artist, etc.)

I'm just asking most natural, if that's even a thing. The chart you directed me to mentions "reproduces natural sound", "reproduces original sound", "traditional tone", and "traditional sound", so I was hoping that "most natural" might be a reasonable thing to seek.

My ears aren't trained enough to clearly notice these subtleties and, well, I'm frankly trying to avoid the OCD rabbit hole of spending tons of time listening to try to notice what I prefer.  It would be nice to keep it simple and just know I'm not modifying the original sound all that much. I assume the DAC/amp is doing that to some extent anyway, and I'm fine with what I'm hearing in general. And here are two links that seem to essentially say the nuances are usually so subtle as to be essentially unnoticeable for most users (one user mentions "placebo" and another mentions "audiophile dog"): link1, link2.


----------



## ClieOS

Jaysound said:


> I didn't ask about the "best".   I know not to ask that, any more than I'd ask about the best EQ settings. (Or best artist, etc.)
> 
> I'm just asking most natural, if that's even a thing. The chart you directed me to mentions "reproduces natural sound", "reproduces original sound", "traditional tone", and "traditional sound", so I was hoping that "most natural" might be a reasonable thing to seek.
> 
> My ears aren't trained enough to clearly notice these subtleties and, well, I'm frankly trying to avoid the OCD rabbit hole of spending tons of time listening to try to notice what I prefer.  It would be nice to keep it simple and just know I'm not modifying the original sound all that much. I assume the DAC/amp is doing that to some extent anyway, and I'm fine with what I'm hearing in general. And here are two links that seem to essentially say the nuances are usually so subtle as to be essentially unnoticeable for most users (one user mentions "placebo" and another mentions "audiophile dog"): link1, link2.



Asking which filter is 'most natural', in this case, is not that much different from asking which one is the best - it is all a personal taste / determination. The reason why there isn't a best filter is because every filter has its pros / cons in pre- / post- ringing, phase delay, fast / slow roll-off speed - no one has been agreed upon to be perfect / best / most natural universally and therefore DAC manufacturers include most of them into the DAC itself for individual to pick the one that sound the best for them individually.(or sometime DAC maker pick one  that they think represent their 'house sound').


----------



## Jaysound

ClieOS said:


> Asking which filter is 'most natural', in this case, is not that much different from asking which one is the best - it is all a personal taste / determination. The reason why there isn't a best filter is because every filter has its pros / cons in pre- / post- ringing, phase delay, fast / slow roll-off speed - no one has been agreed upon to be perfect / best / most natural universally and therefore DAC manufacturers include most of them into the DAC itself for individual to pick the one that sound the best for them individually.(or sometime DAC maker pick one  that they think represent their 'house sound').


Understood. Yet one would think Fiio would be able to provide some information about what the filters are doing, similar to what was at the link you provided. I don't see anything on their website about it, so today I sent an email to Fiio support asking if they have any info on it.


----------



## ClieOS

Jaysound said:


> Understood. Yet one would think Fiio would be able to provide some information about what the filters are doing, similar to what was at the link you provided. I don't see anything on their website about it, so today I sent an email to Fiio support asking if they have any info on it.



Technical detail usually can be found on the DAC chip data sheet. However, ESS has a strong policy about keeping all its data sheet a secret. More "general" information can be found on various audiophiles forum and website though it usually takes an engineering degree to fully understand the difference and it is not meant for normal consumption. Otherwise a lot of these info released by manufacturers is more like marketing materials than hard science.


----------



## nau53

Hi
Just bought BTR5 for my Sony Z7. Sounds good, but sometimes I wish there were bit more volume. Will balance cable would help me?


----------



## Devodonaldson

nau53 said:


> Hi
> Just bought BTR5 for my Sony Z7. Sounds good, but sometimes I wish there were bit more volume. Will balance cable would help me?


Yes. Much more power from btr5 balanced as well as using both DACs vs single DAC with single ended cable.


----------



## apaar123

can i connect my fiio btr5 with my tv and pc using just bluetooth?


----------



## jsmiller58

nau53 said:


> Hi
> Just bought BTR5 for my Sony Z7. Sounds good, but sometimes I wish there were bit more volume. Will balance cable would help me?


Balanced cable will help.  Also change the setting to high gain - will give more volume even on SE cable.


----------



## Jaysound

On Amazon it says the black BTR5 was first available October 2019 and the titanium was first available May 2020. What's the chance the titanium version has any minor internal improvements compared to the black version since the titanium is newer? I bought both and the titanium color alone, which is only on the edge, doesn't seem worth releasing a new version just for the color.


----------



## ClieOS

Jaysound said:


> ...
> I bought both and the titanium color alone, which is only on the edge, doesn't seem worth releasing a new version just for the color.



It is just a new color.

For the first few months the original black version was super difficult to find due to the combined reason of original slow production as well as the later COVID 19 crisis. Titanium color is sort of the commemorate edition for FiiO to celebrate its production going back to full swing, nothing more.


----------



## LoryWiv

ClieOS said:


> It is just a new color.
> 
> For the first few months the original black version was super difficult to find due to the combined reason of original slow production as well as the later COVID 19 crisis. Titanium color is sort of the commemorate edition for FiiO to celebrate its production going back to full swing, nothing more.


I can't compare colors and appreciate @ClieOS's clarifications. I am a very happy new owner of the titanium, and it is both attractive and very competent. Running it balanced and with boost of the second order harmonics through the app, it really isn't that far off from my desktop rig with OTL tube amp. It's said that second order harmonics are part of what gives tube amps their characteristic sound, and I really appreciate FiiO providing that option. It may be expectation bias on my part but after setting it at 4 with third order at 1, the perceived warmth and euphony make for a very nice experience.


----------



## lucasd (Sep 9, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> There is no universally agreed absolute best filter, and thus you have to be your own judge on which filter sounds best to your ears.


It is sharp-roll-off/ brick-wall  filter and according to digital theory is best.
Any other filter comes with some kind-of distortion. Apodizing filter for example minimize ringing, but at the cost of phase distortion.

Regardless, as most filters are over-sampling the difference in filter will be negligible (if track is well mastered, but if it is not what we are talking about).
One exception is Nos-Dac that tends to measure very purely, but sounds good


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 10, 2020)

Question: The USB to USB-C cable that comes with BTR5 is rather short. I assume it is  USB 2 and needs to support both data transfer (USB DAC function) and charging, correct? Can anyone recommend a longer one that works well with BTR5?  For example, the one below. Thanks.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

LoryWiv said:


>


Should be fine for your use case.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

LoryWiv said:


> I can't compare colors and appreciate @ClieOS's clarifications. I am a very happy new owner of the titanium, and it is both attractive and very competent. Running it balanced and with boost of the second order harmonics through the app, it really isn't that far off from my desktop rig with OTL tube amp. It's said that second order harmonics are part of what gives tube amps their characteristic sound, and I really appreciate FiiO providing that option. It may be expectation bias on my part but after setting it at 4 with third order at 1, the perceived warmth and euphony make for a very nice experience.



I have a FIIO BTR5 and I love it.    How much of a difference does the balanced cable make?   I just bought a FIIO LC 3.5C cable for my se846 IEMs.    I was wondering how much of a difference the balanced cable makes.  Does it depend on the quality of your source files?  I think I experienced that second order harmonics that you mentioned.   That sound is glorious.

I find that the FIIO BTR5 still sounds better wired than Bluetooth, but for a long walk, it delivers great sound.    I do prefer both the Dragon Fly Red and Chord Mojo sound signature over the FIIO BTR5.   I use it mostly for its bluetooth feature.


----------



## jdorman12

I just got the btr5 today and the version I have is 2.0, so I guess they have a new firmware?! Also to be honest, I think I liked my earstudio es100 better but haven't really messed with it much yet


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Curious to hear about a 2.0 version.
Will check that.

Thanks.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I have a FIIO BTR5 and I love it.    How much of a difference does the balanced cable make?   I just bought a FIIO LC 3.5C cable for my se846 IEMs.    I was wondering how much of a difference the balanced cable makes.  Does it depend on the quality of your source files?  I think I experienced that second order harmonics that you mentioned.   That sound is glorious.
> 
> I find that the FIIO BTR5 still sounds better wired than Bluetooth, but for a long walk, it delivers great sound.    I do prefer both the Dragon Fly Red and Chord Mojo sound signature over the FIIO BTR5.   I use it mostly for its bluetooth feature.


It depends on your earphones.
The 3.5 se output is known to be inferior to the 2.5, which delivers a cleaner sound.
Also it delivers up to nearly 4 times the power of the se output.

Sounds great with my Monitor 5 and even the new aquired D7200.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

jdorman12 said:


> I just got the btr5 today and the version I have is 2.0, so I guess they have a new firmware?! Also to be honest, I think I liked my earstudio es100 better but haven't really messed with it much yet



I almost bought the es100s instead of the FIIO BTR5.   The feature I was really interested in was Ambient Mode.    If the es100 sounds great and has a good ambient mode, then I could just use it to make phone calls.   But, it all depends on how well it screens out ambient noise on a phone call.   Have you tested that feature?   The BTR5 is horrible for phone calls.   It does not screen out ambient noise making it talking outside a non-starter.


----------



## jdorman12

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I almost bought the es100s instead of the FIIO BTR5.   The feature I was really interested in was Ambient Mode.    If the es100 sounds great and has a good ambient mode, then I could just use it to make phone calls.   But, it all depends on how well it screens out ambient noise on a phone call.   Have you tested that feature?   The BTR5 is horrible for phone calls.   It does not screen out ambient noise making it talking outside a non-starter.


To be honest I didn't use it much, but from what I did it was good at using it as a mic and noise cancelation in general.


----------



## LoryWiv

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I have a FIIO BTR5 and I love it.    How much of a difference does the balanced cable make?   I just bought a FIIO LC 3.5C cable for my se846 IEMs.    I was wondering how much of a difference the balanced cable makes.  Does it depend on the quality of your source files?  I think I experienced that second order harmonics that you mentioned.   That sound is glorious.
> 
> I find that the FIIO BTR5 still sounds better wired than Bluetooth, but for a long walk, it delivers great sound.    I do prefer both the Dragon Fly Red and Chord Mojo sound signature over the FIIO BTR5.   I use it mostly for its bluetooth feature.


I do like the SE but better still balanced. The balanced output delivers 240 mW versus 80 mW single ended, and that alone may provide more head room and drive control depending upon what type of earphone / headphone you are listening to. And yes, it's so cool BTR5 / Fiio software offer 2nd order harmonic adjustment, unique AFIAK and IMHO a great feature for tuning the sound signature.


----------



## ClieOS

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I almost bought the es100s instead of the FIIO BTR5.   The feature I was really interested in was Ambient Mode.    If the es100 sounds great and has a good ambient mode, then I could just use it to make phone calls.   But, it all depends on how well it screens out ambient noise on a phone call.   Have you tested that feature?   The BTR5 is horrible for phone calls.   It does not screen out ambient noise making it talking outside a non-starter.



I could be ready this wrong but it seems you might have mistaken what ambient mode on ES100 does - it is a way for ES100 to pick up outside sound (including noise) and mix it into the music you are listening so you can stay alerted to the environment while still enjoy your music (i.e. useful in situation like biking when you also need to pay attention to what happens around you). It does not 'screen out' noise, but instead includes it.

BTR5 does have a special feature called dual mic CVC noise cancelling (*most smartphone already have this feature built-in, and why most smartphone has a separated mic on top that you can't use to make call) - when you are using a normal mic-equipped headset to make call, the mic on the BTR5 itself will turn into a noise cancelling mic to help to reduce outside environmental noise. Of course if you are using the mic on BTR5 itself to make call, then this feature won't activate.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Sep 10, 2020)

ClieOS said:


> I could be ready this wrong but it seems you might have mistaken what ambient mode on ES100 does - it is a way for ES100 to pick up outside sound (including noise) and mix it into the music you are listening so you can stay alerted to the environment while still enjoy your music (i.e. useful in situation like biking when you also need to pay attention to what happens around you). It does not 'screen out' noise, but instead includes it.
> 
> BTR5 does have a special feature called dual mic CVC noise cancelling (*most smartphone already have this feature built-in, and why most smartphone has a separated mic on top that you can't use to make call) - when you are using a normal mic-equipped headset to make call, the mic on the BTR5 itself will turn into a noise cancelling mic to help to reduce outside environmental noise. Of course if you are using the mic on BTR5 itself to make call, then this feature won't activate.


No, I understand what it is.   I am outside walking every day.  You don't want to be totally isolated from the environment so that you aren't surprised by a vehicle or person coming from behind you.   This applies both when listening to music or talking on the phone.   When you are talking on the phone, the most basic and important use of ambient sound is to hear your own voice when talking.   This prevents you from yelling into the phone.   In addition, when you want to talk to someone with your monitors in your ears, it's helpful to have a good ambient sound capability so that you can hear the person you are talking to.    The Airpod Pros are fantastic at delivering this feature.   It's called transparency mode in their platform.   Not only does it allow in ambient sound, but it also screens out excess noise and isolates the voice for a superior voice conversation.   Sony calls it ambient sound mode and is not well executed.   When I talk with the microphone on BTR5 using my IEMs or even my Sony WF-1000XM3 earphones, the talk experience is terrible.   The other party hears a lot of noise and I can't hear my own voice.  So, I am always bringing two earphones with me.   Airpod Pros for talk and Sony or Shure for music.   I'd like to only have to bring one headset with me and hoping that some mobile DAC/AMP provider adds an Airpod Pro transparency mode like feature into their device.


----------



## megabigeye

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> When you are talking on the phone, the most basic and important use of ambient sound is to hear your own voice when talking.   This prevents you from yelling into the phone.


What you're talking about is technically called sidetone.  Don't know if that helps in any way (ehh...  probably not).


----------



## littlenezt (Sep 11, 2020)

hi there, anyone have the FiiO BTR5 SK-BTR5 Leather Case?
mine just arrived and the BTR5 slips out really easily from the case.


Spoiler: Vid



https://imgur.com/a/2zWqG2f


----------



## jeejack

apaar123 said:


> can i connect my fiio btr5 with my tv and pc using just bluetooth?


Yes. I use it to watch movies (Netflix) from Tv


----------



## jeejack

littlenezt said:


> hi there, anyone have the FiiO BTR5 SK-BTR5 Leather Case?
> mine just arrived and the BTR5 slips out really easily from the case.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm ok, mine stay tight


----------



## Jaysound (Sep 12, 2020)

I'm having a very odd experience using my Shure SE425s with the BTR5 -- the plug and jack don't seem to like each other very much.

I've been using the 3.5 mm cable.

After about a month of infrequent use of the two together with no issues, one day the songs playing via Bluetooth LDAC from my phone started to pause frequently, until I hit a button to resume playing. I checked the cable connection and noticed that if I spun the plug in the port roughly about 180 degrees the song would stop. Then I realized that on occasion the whole prior month the song would on rare occasions pause playing until I resumed it.

I assumed perhaps the inside of the jack may have become bent once when the unit got unclipped from my belt and dropped to where the cable length stopped it, so I bought another one -- this time a titanium since the first one, exhibiting the issue, was black. But sure enough the identical issue existed. Ever time I'd spin the plug roughly about 180 degrees the song would stop playing.

As I tested this out more, sometimes I couldn't even resume play until spinning it further -- with both units.

To explore the cause, I picked up a 90-degree 4-pole male-to-female elbow adapter and a short 4-pole extension cable. Oddly enough, with both the 90-degree elbow and the extension cable I could spin the plug going into the BTR5 all day long with no interruption in play, and could spin the SE425s cable's plug going into the elbow or extension cable all day long with no interruption in play.

I'm not sure what to do to resolve this. I could keep the 90-degree elbow always plugged in, but that seems a bit awkward. Maybe buy another SE425 and hope the BTR5 likes it better? (And hope B&H will let me return the first SE425 that I bought months ago, or give it away?)


----------



## hmscott

Jaysound said:


> I'm having a very odd experience using my Shure SE425s with the BTR5 -- the plug and jack don't seem to like each other very much.
> 
> I've been using the 3.5 mm cable.
> 
> ...


You are in luck, the Shure SE425's use an MMCX connector on the buds, so there are a zillion 3rd party cables available - or complain to Shure and ask them to send a replacement cable to try to see if that fixes it.

I haven't had any 3.5mm compatibility issues with any connectors so far, but in the past I have had some incompatible connectors - the width of the bands is just a bit off - and the device acts like you are describing.

Looks like a nice headset, and Shure is having a sale right now on both the wireless and wired models - they are both $199 right now, and the wireless model comes with both wired and wireless harnesses with MMCX connectors, so you could try getting a set of the wireless to get the best of both options.  I usually get 2 or even 3 of the same unit if I really like it to rotate usage to help them last longer, and as they age out and sell out you can usually get great deals on them as they are discontinued.

If you don't need the microphone or controls - I usually get 3rd party cables without the microphone / control pod - there are a lot of "upgrades" for cables that are inexpensive these days, here's a thread about them here on head-fi:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/

I've settled into using the KB EAR 8 core and 16 core models, but there are lots of other brands and choices:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=8+core+mmcx+cable
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=16+core+mmcx+cable

And, as long as you are considering replacing the cable, I'd try a balanced cable - the BTR5 puts out more power on the 2.5mm balanced connector:
https://www.amazon.com/Detachable-Upgrade-Earphone-Replacement-Standard/dp/B07ZCR2FVR
https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Plated-Braided-Upgrade-Earphone/dp/B07V1TW79V/

Depending on the headphone and your own hearing sensitivities you might like cable upgrades with Copper only wire strands, Copper with silver plating, or a mix of the two.  Bright headphones can benefit from copper only, bass heavy dark sounding headphones can benefit from silver plating, and a combination of the two is good for balanced headphones that just need a cable upgrade.

Please come back and let us know what you end up trying and what you find works best for you and those Sure SE425's


----------



## hmscott

littlenezt said:


> hi there, anyone have the FiiO BTR5 SK-BTR5 Leather Case?
> mine just arrived and the BTR5 slips out really easily from the case.
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, that's a feature for pretty much all of the leather cases for the BTR5 / BTR3k, when there isn't a wrap around ( like the BTR3k case) the BTR's will slide very easily - sometimes out of the box the leather will be "tight" but over time they all loosen up and slip.  I got used to it and automatically slide them back in with the wire press and click into the BTR pushing out the other side, I just put my thumb / finger over that side while applying pressure - you get used to living with it.


----------



## Jaysound

hmscott said:


> You are in luck, the Shure SE425's use an MMCX connector on the buds, so there are a zillion 3rd party cables available - or complain to Shure and ask them to send a replacement cable to try to see if that fixes it.
> 
> I haven't had any 3.5mm compatibility issues with any connectors so far, but in the past I have had some incompatible connectors - the width of the bands is just a bit off - and the device acts like you are describing.
> 
> ...


I think I'll ask Shure to send me a replacement cable and see what happens.

Considering that I'm only using the BTR5 in Bluetooth/LDAC mode and only with Shure SE425 IEMs, I didn't think going to upgraded and/or 2.5mm balanced cables were likely to give me much of a noticeable improvement in SQ. I wonder if either or both could be worthwhile.

The KB Ear cables look interesting but those large cylinders at the MMCX connectors push the cable so far forward it seems certain that any pull on the cable will twist the IEM in the ear with unwanted pressure, and the over-the-ear cable approach can only help so much (I often practice tai chi while listening to music and the cable is down my back, with the BTR5 on the back of my belt).

I am hesitant to forego the control pod on the Shure cable but if it means a meaningful improvement in SQ I'll try it. I have the play/pause/vol controls on the BTR5, but while I don't use the mic on the Shure cable for phone calls -- I switch to a dedicated Bluetooth device I keep in my pocket -- I do frequently utilize the on-cable mic by telling Google Assistant to control the playing of my music when my hands are busy with tai chi ("open Spotify", "play Moody Blues", "play Hurricane", "next", "increase volume", etc).


----------



## Jaysound

lucasd said:


> It is sharp-roll-off/ brick-wall  filter and according to digital theory is best.
> Any other filter comes with some kind-of distortion. Apodizing filter for example minimize ringing, but at the cost of phase distortion.
> 
> Regardless, as most filters are over-sampling the difference in filter will be negligible (if track is well mastered, but if it is not what we are talking about).
> One exception is Nos-Dac that tends to measure very purely, but sounds good


The only thing I see close to "sharp-roll-off/ brick-wall" in the BTR5 filters list is "BRICK". So, I assume you're suggesting that's the one to use for the least distortion (or "enhancement"), correct?


----------



## Jaysound

What's the difference between L and H gain other than the obvious difference in volume/range? Is H inherently "better" or is it just the obvious difference in the range scale?


----------



## Jaysound (Sep 12, 2020)

hmscott said:


> You are in luck, the Shure SE425's use an MMCX connector
> <snip>
> Looks like a nice headset, and Shure is having a sale right now on both the wireless and wired models - they are both $199 right now, and the wireless model comes with both wired and wireless harnesses with MMCX connectors


B&H has the bundle with both the 3.5 mm and Bluetooth cables at $199 as the ongoing price: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...bt2_se425_sound_isolating_earphones_with.html


----------



## hmscott (Sep 14, 2020)

Jaysound said:


> I think I'll ask Shure to send me a replacement cable and see what happens.
> 
> Considering that I'm only using the BTR5 in Bluetooth/LDAC mode and only with Shure SE425 IEMs, I didn't think going to upgraded and/or 2.5mm balanced cables were likely to give me much of a noticeable improvement in SQ. I wonder if either or both could be worthwhile.
> 
> ...


For microphone info see FiiO provided info here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ptx-aptx-ll-aptx-hd-ldac.918298/post-15862128

The both the 16 core and 6 core work fine with small IEM's like the TinHifi P1, Blon BL-03, Dunu 2001 - note that the wires that go to the IEM are 1/2 the thickness of the main length of the cable starting at the splitter only 1/2 the cable goes to each IEM.  I've been using the 16 core cable MMCX with IEM's and I've not had any "fallout's" while sitting there listening to music.  If you fiddle with your ear or hair that can happen with pretty much any IEM.

On the BTR5 the 3.5mm Single-ended AMP doesn't sound as good to me as the 2.5mm even at the same output (level adjusted), the BTR3k 3.5mm sounds better to me than the BTR5.  The BTR5 2.5mm sounds better enough to me + higher power is available than the 3.5mm output so I changed most of my IEM's (that I could) to 2.5mm.  And, I'm not the only one that noticed the difference.

Perhaps you can try with one set of 2.5mm 16 core and 8 core cables to see whether 2.5mm sounds better to you and whether you like 8 core or 16 core cables to your IEM.  That's why I did to start, ordered the 8 core 2.5mm first, then followed up soon afterwards with a 16 core cable and I've kept using those 16 core cables, adding 4.4mm versions when I was about to receive my FiiO M15 and Topping A90 which have 4.4mm ports built-in.  The M15 has all 3, 4.4mm, 2.5mm, 3.5mm.  For the M15 the 4.4mm and 2.5mm sound the same - they are wired the same internally, but the 4.4mm is stronger and I prefer it for mobile use.

Lots of possibilities - perhaps you will find another IEM down the road you'll like and want to try on the BTR5


----------



## LoryWiv

I note in the BTR5 manual it states double click button B activates Siri. Is there an equivalent functionality for those on android (EG - Google assistant or Bixby)? I'd really just like to be able to initiate a phone call without grabbing my phone which sometimes is in another room when I'm listening to music.

I am away from my BTR5 now but if it's possible, I will give it a go tomorrow. I'd appreciate info. and tips for setting this up. Thanks!


----------



## Jaysound (Sep 13, 2020)

hmscott said:


> The BTR5 has a microphone on it and uses that and not the microphone in the "pod" on the headphone cable, so that helps


I can't say for sure but when the IEM cable is plugged in I believe the BTR5 is using the mic on the 3.5 mm cable that came with the SE425. The reason I believe this is partly because the BTR5 is pretty advanced in general, and partly because a number of times when the control pod was behind my head the voice commands to Google Assistant were not recognized until I moved the control pod close to my mouth and then it worked fine.


----------



## Jaysound

LoryWiv said:


> I note in the BTR5 manual it states double click button B activates Siri. Is there an equivalent functionality for those on android (EG - Google assistant or Bixby)? I'd really just like to be able to initiate a phone call without grabbing my phone which sometimes is in another room when I'm listening to music.
> 
> I am away from my BTR5 now but if it's possible, I will give it a go tomorrow. I'd appreciate info. and tips for setting this up. Thanks!


On Android it's called Google Assistant and it works like a charm for me with the BTR5 I have never initiated a phone call with it since I use a Plantronics Bluetooth headset for phone calls, but since the BTR5 works fine for everything else I'm sure initiating a call will also work fine. As you said, yes, I can double-click button B on the BTR5 or do the equivalent on the control pod on the IEM cable and yes that initiates Google Assistant. So does just saying "Hey Google" or "Okay Google" -- I use an IEM cable that has a mic and that seems to work fine.


----------



## XDT

Jaysound said:


> I can't say for sure but when the IEM cable is plugged in I believe the BTR5 is using the mic on the 3.5 mm cable that came with the SE425. The reason I believe this is partly because the BTR5 is pretty advanced in general, and partly because a number of times when the control pod was behind my head the voice commands to Google Assistant were not recognized until I moved the control pod close to my mouth and then it worked fine.



My understanding is that if your cable has a mic, the BTR5 will use that microphone and use its in-built mic for background noise cancelling. If your cable doesn't have a mic, then the BTR5 will use the in-built mic.


----------



## fonkepala

Jaysound said:


> I can't say for sure but when the IEM cable is plugged in I believe the BTR5 is using the mic on the 3.5 mm cable that came with the SE425. The reason I believe this is partly because the BTR5 is pretty advanced in general, and partly because a number of times when the control pod was behind my head the voice commands to Google Assistant were not recognized until I moved the control pod close to my mouth and then it worked fine.



On the Qudelix 5K you can choose (via its app) whether to use the 5K's mic or the inline mic that's on your IEM/headphones.


----------



## Jaysound

ClieOS said:


> It is just a new color.
> 
> For the first few months the original black version was super difficult to find due to the combined reason of original slow production as well as the later COVID 19 crisis. Titanium color is sort of the commemorate edition for FiiO to celebrate its production going back to full swing, nothing more.


I'm actually really liking the titanium color. Plus, I always use the provided clear plastic clip case and it looks much more pleasing on the titanium than on the solid black model. (By the way, knock on wood, so far the clear plastic clip case is darned durable. Dropped the unit on pavement and not even the slightest hint of any detectable scratches on it.)


----------



## Jaysound

For now I'm still just using my SE425 with the provided 3.5 mm cable (and Bluetooth/LDAC). Is there any real benefit to installing the app? I didn't notice any and ended up deleting it since all the controls I want are on the device (and on the cable that came with the SE425, and accessible via voice command).

I'm seeing on this forum that "second order harmonics" is a thing and is done through the app. Does that apply to using a 3.5 mm cable also, or only to a balanced 2.5 mm cable?


----------



## LoryWiv

Jaysound said:


> For now I'm still just using my SE425 with the provided 3.5 mm cable (and Bluetooth/LDAC). Is there any real benefit to installing the app? I didn't notice any and ended up deleting it since all the controls I want are on the device (and on the cable that came with the SE425, and accessible via voice command).
> 
> I'm seeing on this forum that "second order harmonics" is a thing and is done through the app. Does that apply to using a 3.5 mm cable also, or only to a balanced 2.5 mm cable?


From 1st principles I can't see why adjusting 2nd order harmonics wouldn't apply to both 2.5 and 3.5 mm outputs, just as EQ would, but perhaps others have a more definitive answer.


----------



## LoryWiv

Question: I can't seem to activate google assistance with a double click on middle button "B". In fact, double clicking has no effect, the music keeps playing w/o interruption. My phone is android based, does have a lock screen but works fine when I speak directly into phone saying "Hey Google". Any tips / ideas on how to get BTR5 to activate google assistant?


----------



## hmscott (Sep 14, 2020)

Jaysound said:


> I can't say for sure but when the IEM cable is plugged in I believe the BTR5 is using the mic on the 3.5 mm cable that came with the SE425. The reason I believe this is partly because the BTR5 is pretty advanced in general, and partly because a number of times when the control pod was behind my head the voice commands to Google Assistant were not recognized until I moved the control pod close to my mouth and then it worked fine.





XDT said:


> My understanding is that if your cable has a mic, the BTR5 will use that microphone and use its in-built mic for background noise cancelling. If your cable doesn't have a mic, then the BTR5 will use the in-built mic.


For my own use I buy 2.5mm balanced cables without a control pod and use the BTR5 built in microphone which is very sensitive and provides good audio to people I call.

The BTR5 can sit on my desk a good 3-4 feet away and still pick up my normal speaking voice for phone calls.

Here is what FiiO says about the micrphone built-in and how it handles the CTIA and OMTP external "control pod" microphones.
https://www.fiio.com/btr5




*From the BTR5 FAQ*
https://www.fiio.com/btr5_faq

*18.Does the BTR5 support a headset's remote control and the microphone？*
The BTR5 supports the CTIA standard for line control as well as line microphone. But the headsets with OMTP protocol only support normal listening.
https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/328481.html



XDT said:


> My understanding is that if your cable has a mic, the BTR5 will use that microphone and use its in-built mic for background noise cancelling. If your cable doesn't have a mic, then the BTR5 will use the in-built mic.


Per FiiO CTIA cables work that way, but OMTP cable microphones aren't guaranteed to work.

I rarely use the cables with built in microphones these days, I order my IEM's with a straight cable and if I like the IEM I swap the stock cable for a 16 core 2.5mm balanced cable, and in both cases rely on only the BTR5 microphone for phone calls.

There are CTIA / OMTP adapters, but I haven't tried them - it might be worth trying if the cable your IEM came with microphone won't work:
https://www.amazon.com/ctia-omtp-adapter/s?k=ctia+omtp+adapter

If it comes to that using the BTR5 microphone would work fine too.


Jaysound said:


> What's the difference between L and H gain other than the obvious difference in volume/range? Is H inherently "better" or is it just the obvious difference in the range scale?


Driving your headphones harder often makes them sound better - up to a point, but don't damage your hearing by turning it up loud.  In H many of my IEM's sound more full, but that usually has them running too loud for long listening sessions.

I tend to run in L for IEM's that can run in the Volume "number" 20-30 range, if I need to run the IEM higher I bump it up to H, which lets me drop the volume "number" down by about 10, say from 40 in L to 30 in H.

I recommend to try these subjective experience settings on your own, everyone's hearing sensitivities are different, so what works for me may not work well for you.  You may prefer it in H gain all the time even if it means Volume numbers down in the 10 range.   Try it for yourself. 

Some headphone amplifiers will label their gain as impedance changes, but FiiO hasn't said anything about impedance being changed.


Jaysound said:


> B&H has the bundle with both the 3.5 mm and Bluetooth cables at $199 as the ongoing price: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...bt2_se425_sound_isolating_earphones_with.html


Weird, I saw that that deal too and wrote it into my previous post from yesterday, but I came back today to find my post saved as unfinished - missing the answer above too, so yeah that's a good suggestion - you would get the replacement cable + a Bluetooth wireless harness for use without the BTR5 as well.

Also, for everyone with a BTR5, FiiO has a lot of information online to read that will save you from answering questions here and give you more background for your use of the BTR5 - things we didn't think to ask.

*Technical support for BTR5*
_In here you could find the introduction, resources download, system updates, troubleshooting or after-sales service of BTR5. _
https://www.fiio.com/btr5_faq

Then there is the actual product page for the BTR5 which has several "tabs" with additional information - Parameters (Specifications) here:
https://www.fiio.com/btr5_parameters

*BTR5 Product Page*
https://www.fiio.com/btr5

And, FiiO has public product user forums:

*General Discussion*
http://www.fiio.me/forum.php?mod=forumdisplay&fid=65

*Hot News*
http://www.fiio.me/forum.php?mod=forumdisplay&fid=73

*Firmware & Drivers Download*
http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=forumdisplay&fid=58

*Knowledge Base*
http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=forumdisplay&fid=71

The first section are stickies that show up in all the forums, but the 2nd section "Forum Thread" are all different.


----------



## hmscott (Sep 14, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Question: I can't seem to activate google assistance with a double click on middle button "B". In fact, double clicking has no effect, the music keeps playing w/o interruption. My phone is android based, does have a lock screen but works fine when I speak directly into phone saying "Hey Google". Any tips / ideas on how to get BTR5 to activate google assistant?


You have to be in the right mode to have the expected result from the multifunction button and volume controls.  If you are in the settings mode the volume control doesn't work as the volume control it works as up/down changes for the current setting - and the multi-function button jumps between the settings.

*FiiO BTR5 Manual Download*

The manual says 2 button Presses of the multifunction button brings up "Siri", and 2 presses brings up Bixby on my Samsung S20 Ultra - I don't use it often, but it works fine.  There are no settings in the menu options to enable / disable "voice assistant" and no settings in the *FiiO Control App* for "voice assistant".


----------



## LoryWiv

hmscott said:


> You have to be in the right mode to have the expected result from the multifunction button and volume controls.  If you are in the settings mode the volume control doesn't work as the volume control it works as up/down changes for the current setting - and the multi-function button jumps between the settings.
> 
> *FiiO BTR5 Manual Download*
> 
> The manual says 2 button Presses of the multifunction button brings up "Siri", and 2 presses brings up Bixby on my Samsung S20 Ultra - I don't use it often, but it works fine.  There are no settings in the menu options to enable / disable "voice assistant" and no settings in the *FiiO Control App* for "voice assistant".


Yes, I tried this from the main screen, not settings menu. I assume it works for you even with a lock screen on as most phones have one...Oh well, I'll play around some more and thank you for taking the time to respond.


----------



## hmscott (Sep 14, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Yes, I tried this from the main screen, not settings menu. I assume it works for you even with a lock screen on as most phones have one...Oh well, I'll play around some more and thank you for taking the time to respond.


I've got my lock screen "locked down" - nothing displays, and with my Samsung "View" case closed the Bixby alert popped up in the View Window - but if I flip open my case the lock screen is still there.  I was able to talk to Bixby with the case closed, and through the View display port on he side I can see my voice prompts and answers.

BTW, I used a NiceHCK DB3 3.5mm stock cable without a control pod / microphone, I used the microphone on the BTR5 while it was sitting on the couch next to me - at cable's length.


LoryWiv said:


> From 1st principles I can't see why adjusting 2nd order harmonics wouldn't apply to both 2.5 and 3.5 mm outputs, just as EQ would, but perhaps others have a more definitive answer.


In the app it doesn't say it's for SE or Balanced only, it should be for both.

I have it disabled and the settings all set to 0 before I disabled it.  I tried setting everything to maximum - to see if I could hear a difference, and I did, but I didn't want to futz with it at the time... someday.


----------



## pilgrimbilly

Del


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

megabigeye said:


> What you're talking about is technically called sidetone.  Don't know if that helps in any way (ehh...  probably not).


Thanks.    Now I have a technical term for it.   I am surprised that iem product companies don’t add that feature.   Hard to wear the earphones for 8 hours or more without having to talk to someone either on the phone or in person.


----------



## megabigeye

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Thanks.    Now I have a technical term for it.   I am surprised that iem product companies don’t add that feature.   Hard to wear the earphones for 8 hours or more without having to talk to someone either on the phone or in person.


Smart phones often have some setting for it under accessibility. I haven't used it in a while, but I think it might reside under hearing aid compatibility. Can't quite remember. I don't know if it applies to DACs/Bluetooth.


----------



## lucasd

Jaysound said:


> The only thing I see close to "sharp-roll-off/ brick-wall" in the BTR5 filters list is "BRICK". So, I assume you're suggesting that's the one to use for the least distortion (or "enhancement"), correct?


On BTR5 I think there are two filters of this type. I have selected Fast.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808 (Sep 15, 2020)

hmscott said:


> For my own use I buy 2.5mm balanced cables without a control pod and use the BTR5 built in microphone which is very sensitive and provides good audio to people I call.
> 
> The BTR5 can sit on my desk a good 3-4 feet away and still pick up my normal speaking voice for phone calls.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this post.   I must be doing something wrong because the call quality experience I have when walking outside is not very good.   I'll give it another go.   Maybe I need to use a CTIA cable for better call quality, but I am concerned it will impair audio experience.   When I am inside near my desk, call quality is good, but there is no noise.   When someone comes into my office, I need to remove an earphone to talk.   I guess I'll have to live with that limitation for a while.


----------



## LoryWiv

Loving the BTR5, only glitch is I can't get it to activate google assistant. Perhaps issue is that I am trying to do this while paired / connected to my phone but not actively using it for music. Does the double click of middle button to call assistant on android phone still work if the connection is idyll?

I ask because if i initiate a call directly from my phone it transfers seamlessly to BTR5 and I can end it by clicking the middle button. That suggested to me that the BT connection BTR5 <--> phone needs to be in use for those functions to work.

Am I missing something here?


----------



## hmscott (Sep 18, 2020)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> Thanks for this post.   I must be doing something wrong because the call quality experience I have when walking outside is not very good.   I'll give it another go.   Maybe I need to use a CTIA cable for better call quality, but I am concerned it will impair audio experience.   When I am inside near my desk, call quality is good, but there is no noise.   When someone comes into my office, I need to remove an earphone to talk.   I guess I'll have to live with that limitation for a while.


Another thing to try is to only use the microphone in the BTR5, and put the BTR5 in your shirt / light coat pocket... that way the BTR5 microphone can still pick up your voice - they are very sensitive - but the wind noise will be cut down like a wind sock on a microphone.  I also cup my hands and hold the BTR5 up to my mouth to cut the wind noise.  The plastic case may be clipped to the shirt / jacket - a small piece of cotton ball fluff pinched between the BTR5 microphone hole and the case might help too (I haven't tried that one myself yet).

I've even taken a call when the BTR5 is in my pants pocket... they didn't complain 

If the cable you have connected to the BTR5 has a microphone that might cause problems with picking up noise.  Try getting a cable without the microphone pod.  A good time to get a balanced cable with 2.5mm connection - the BTR5 puts out more power from the 2.5mm port...


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

hmscott said:


> Another thing to try is to only use the microphone in the BTR5, and put the BTRt in your shirt / light coat pocket... that way the BTR5 microphone can still pick up your voice - they are very sensitive - but the wind noise will be cut down like a wind sock on a microphone.  I also cup my hands and hold the BTR5 up to my mouth to cut the wind noise.  The plastic case may be clipped to the shirt / jacket - a small piece of cotton pinched between the BTR5 and the case might help too (I haven't tried that one myself yet).
> 
> I've even taken a call when the BTR5 is in my pants pocket... they didn't complain
> 
> If the cable you have connected to the BTR5 has a microphone that might cause problems with picking up noise.  Try getting a cable without the microphone pod.  A good time to get a balanced cable with 2.5mm connection - the BTR5 puts out more power from the 2.5mm port...



I use the stock cable plugged right into the BTR5 clipped onto my shirt.  Maybe I need to try it in the pocket.


----------



## Solarium

So I'm looking into getting this to hook up to my TV (Hisense H9G) to watch movies using USB. Does anyone know if this can be compatible with a TV USB? Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

Solarium said:


> So I'm looking into getting this to hook up to my TV (Hisense H9G) to watch movies using USB. Does anyone know if this can be compatible with a TV USB? Thanks



Are you sure your TV supports USB DAC?


----------



## Solarium

ClieOS said:


> Are you sure your TV supports USB DAC?


I have no idea lol, that's why I'm posting the question. It goes have an optical out, but the BTR5 doesn't accept that


----------



## Facta (Sep 19, 2020)

Almost all TVs offer digital/optical out but HDMI ARC appears to be the best interface for maximum rates and often used in pro world. But of course, only the latest and expensive TVs ($800+) seem to come with HDMI ARC output and rarely any external DAC/Amps with HDMI ARC input. Would love to know more about this route from HDMI ARC users.


----------



## BigZ12

I think it's a nightmare using the BTR5 with several sources paired with it.
I have paired my iPhone, my Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 and an Avantree DG60 USB transmitter (which just connects to the latest connected device, no manual connect/disconnect).
The BTR5 have no option to choose which source it should connect to, or an option to disconnect, and even if it says it has AAC from the iPhone there's sometimes no sound. (because it's also connected to either the DG60 or the Shield?)

It's also wrongly connected to the DG60 with AptX LL, not HD while connected to either the iPhone or Shield as well. Have to manually disconnect on those devices to get AptX HD.

Any tips or tricks here, please?


----------



## LoryWiv

BigZ12 said:


> I think it's a nightmare using the BTR5 with several sources paired with it.
> I have paired my iPhone, my Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 and an Avantree DG60 USB transmitter (which just connects to the latest connected device, no manual connect/disconnect).
> The BTR5 have no option to choose which source it should connect to, or an option to disconnect, and even if it says it has AAC from the iPhone there's sometimes no sound. (because it's also connected to either the DG60 or the Shield?)
> 
> ...


Hmmm, I also have BTR5 connected to  Avantree DG60 and my phone (android). it seems to work intuitively, such that if I'm streaming music from PC to BTR5 using DG60 and a call comes in, it switches to phone then back to DG60 when I hang up. DG60 indicator is solid white (AptX HD) and BTR5 displays AptX HD but changes to AptX when phone call is active. I wish I knew how I acheived that which seems like desired multi-point behavior. If I can sort out how to adjust settings I'll share, with caveat that I don't have an iPhone so YMMV.


----------



## BigZ12 (Sep 20, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Hmmm, I also have BTR5 connected to  Avantree DG60 and my phone (android). it seems to work intuitively, such that if I'm streaming music from PC to BTR5 using DG60 and a call comes in, it switches to phone then back to DG60 when I hang up. DG60 indicator is solid white (AptX HD) and BTR5 displays AptX HD but changes to AptX when phone call is active. I wish I knew how I acheived that which seems like desired multi-point behavior. If I can sort out how to adjust settings I'll share, with caveat that I don't have an iPhone so YMMV.


Thanks for answering.
Yes, I've also got a call when it was connected to the DG60. That worked.

But; what if I'm connected to the DG60, and want to switch to the iPhone for music (in your case Android phone)?
And worse, back to the DG60 again...
And to make it even worse, connect the Nvidia Shield and use that for a while.

I actually had to disconnect the DG60 from it's USB socket, to get sound from the phone. (Edit: Seems like the DG60 is "hogging" the connection?)
And then to use the DG60 again, after used the iPhone (or Shield) I need to manually disconnect the BTR5 from the BT settings on the phone/Shield.
Sooo cumbersome...
Wish there was an option in the app where you could switch the source from there. (like there's in the Sennheiser Smart Control app for my MTW2)

BTW: My DG60 is pre-2020 batch, so I have triple-flash for AptX HD  (had to google when you wrote solid white)


----------



## LoryWiv

BigZ12 said:


> Thanks for answering.
> Yes, I've also got a call when it was connected to the DG60. That worked.
> 
> But; what if I'm connected to the DG60, and want to switch to the iPhone for music (in your case Android phone)?
> ...


Yes, it can be cumbersome but I am happy with the sound quality of these devices in concert so I live with it.  I did initially note that despite AptX HD 24-bit capability when DG60 was being used as a USB DAC/sound card in my PC it was only capable of 16-bit, and Avantree customer support acknowledged that was the case with prior version and exchanged it for me t0 V.1 / HD compatible. I was impressed with this post-sale service, although it was a bit odd that an AptX HD capable BT device was only outputting 16 bit from PC. Perhaps that switch to newest version may be worthwhile for you as well.


----------



## BigZ12

LoryWiv said:


> Yes, it can be cumbersome but I am happy with the sound quality of these devices in concert so I live with it.  I did initially note that despite AptX HD 24-bit capability when DG60 was being used as a USB DAC/sound card in my PC it was only capable of 16-bit, and Avantree customer support acknowledged that was the case with prior version and exchanged it for me t0 V.1 / HD compatible. I was impressed with this post-sale service, although it was a bit odd that an AptX HD capable BT device was only outputting 16 bit from PC. Perhaps that switch to newest version may be worthwhile for you as well.


Funny you mention it. They have just sent me the same updated/modded version with 24bit (but still just 48khz). Will get it in 10-15 days time. (sent from China) 
Yes, that's very impressive post-sale service!


----------



## LoryWiv

BigZ12 said:


> Funny you mention it. They have just sent me the same updated/modded version with 24bit (but still just 48khz). Will get it in 10-15 days time. (sent from China)
> Yes, that's very impressive post-sale service!


YMMV but whether placebo / expectation bias or reality-based, I am really enjoying FLAC's output using HQPlayer 24/48 PCM --> DG60 --> BTR5 --> Shozy Form 1.1. Indeed, I think these mid-fi IEM's are the limiting factor in sound quality, not bit rate. Have some next-level IEM's also en route from China, TRI I3. For now this has quelled my interest in TWS IEM's or over-ear BT's like Shure Aonic50, as the BTR5 is so light I just plug in the IEM's, clip it to my shirt and I can forget it's there.


----------



## FiiO (Sep 24, 2020)

*New added Custom button function,BTR5 FW2.0 is now available!*

*The following changes and improvements have been made in FW2.0:*

1.Added a new function of renaming the Bluetooth device. (FiiO Control App->Setting menu->Custom device name)

2.Added new options to the APP: Custom button function, Long press/Double tap the volume button to switch songs. (You would need to install FiiO Music APP V3.0 or FiiO Control APP latest version) 

3.Fixed the issue where there was no prompt when turning the device off and when plugging in earphones after the device is turning on.

4.Fixed the issue where under Bluetooth multipoint pairing, if Device A is answering a phone call and Device B also had one later, after Device B hung up, the voice of Device A could not be heard.

5.Fixed the issue of text misses under USB in-vehicle mode.

6.Miscellaneous bug fixes.


*BTR5 FW2.0: Click here

How to update the BTR5: Click here

USB DAC Driver(v4.47.0):* Click here


----------



## Hinomotocho

FiiO said:


> *New added Custom button function,BTR5 FW2.0 is now available!*
> 
> *The following changes and improvements have been made in FW2.0:*
> 
> ...


The update has brought some nice customisations for the buttons - well done Fiio.
I also updated the Android app (english) but the setting for the volume buttons is in Chinese characters, I figured it out but you might want to let the app team know about it.


----------



## Pablovi

Can this be used as a Bluetooth receiver and connect it to an analog receiver/amp? Via the 3.5mm output? Or I just connect my a Sony WM1A via the 3.5mm output? Will it make any difference?

Can it be used as an external DAC for iPhone and iPad?

Thanks!


----------



## jsmiller58 (Sep 27, 2020)

Pablovi said:


> Can this be used as a Bluetooth receiver and connect it to an analog receiver/amp? Via the 3.5mm output? Or I just connect my a Sony WM1A via the 3.5mm output? Will it make any difference?
> 
> Can it be used as an external DAC for iPhone and iPad?
> 
> Thanks!


I am not certain but I believe the USB port on the BTR5 is input only. The only outputs are the headphone jacks.  I might be wrong though.

You should be able to use the BTR5 with iOS devices with the right cables.  I have had spotty success on my iPad - seems to try to simultaneously connect to my Android phone via Bluetooth while also connecting to my iPad over my lightning to USBC cable (Lotoo brand cable).  In the FIIO app settings I have the USB input prioritized, so that’s not my problem...

Edit:  Seems that if I first connect the BTR5 to my iPad and then turn on the BTR5 I get a more reliable connection with the iPad, that is I don't have problem of the BT and wired alternating for control of the audio stream.  So, yes, I suppose you could use it this way.  Other than possibly balanced mode and more power, why would you want to use this approach, out of curiosity?  Certainly could understand if you are driving moderate to power cans, otherwise the headphone jack on the iPad seems pretty good (though my iPad is a couple of years old, maybe new ones don’t have one?)


----------



## SaturnoV

I'm looking for a portable DAC/AMP able to drive headphones up to 250/300 Ohm or hard to drive like the Sundara, is the BTR5 up to the task?


----------



## Hinomotocho

Pablovi said:


> Can this be used as a Bluetooth receiver and connect it to an analog receiver/amp? Via the 3.5mm output? Or I just connect my a Sony WM1A via the 3.5mm output? Will it make any difference?
> 
> Can it be used as an external DAC for iPhone and iPad?
> 
> Thanks!


I own both and although I don't use for this set up I would deem the WM1A to be the better quality option. From information I have read it is recommended to use the 3.5mm output at 80 volume. Apparently there is about a second lag with the bluetooth audio for the WM1A so for movies or games you can either adjust in the player software if available or the BTR5 may be the better choice. I use android but it can be used as an external dac for both - the appropriate cable for Apple products may be included in the accessories(?).
For the amp/receiver the WM1A may be the best quality option but for portability the BTR5 is a great size, this was one of the reasons I chose it although I have yet to purchase a cable for android and try it out.


----------



## LoryWiv

SaturnoV said:


> I'm looking for a portable DAC/AMP able to drive headphones up to 250/300 Ohm or hard to drive like the Sundara, is the BTR5 up to the task?


Probably but not optimal. The balanced connection outputs 240 mW into 32 ohms. I tried it with my 300 ohm ZMF Auteur and it didn't quite do it justice.


----------



## SaturnoV

LoryWiv said:


> Probably but not optimal. The balanced connection outputs 240 mW into 32 ohms. I tried it with my 300 ohm ZMF Auteur and it didn't quite do it justice.


Do you know any alternative to the BTR5 powerful enough? 

Sorry for these questions but I'm a total newbie.


----------



## Pablovi (Sep 27, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> I am not certain but I believe the USB port on the BTR5 is input only. The only outputs are the headphone jacks.  I might be wrong though.
> 
> You should be able to use the BTR5 with iOS devices with the right cables.  I have had spotty success on my iPad - seems to try to simultaneously connect to my Android phone via Bluetooth while also connecting to my iPad over my lightning to USBC cable (Lotoo brand cable).  In the FIIO app settings I have the USB input prioritized, so that’s not my problem...
> 
> Edit:  Seems that if I first connect the BTR5 to my iPad and then turn on the BTR5 I get a more reliable connection with the iPad, that is I don't have problem of the BT and wired alternating for control of the audio stream.  So, yes, I suppose you could use it this way.  Other than possibly balanced mode and more power, why would you want to use this approach, out of curiosity?  Certainly could understand if you are driving moderate to power cans, otherwise the headphone jack on the iPad seems pretty good (though my iPad is a couple of years old, maybe new ones don’t have one?)


Thanks!

I want to use it so I can get a better DAC when using my phone or tablet. The USB C- 3.5mm dongle it’s capped at 48khz. And the Ligthing to 3.5mm is only16bit 44.1khz. And yes, neither my iPhone, nor the iPad have a headphone out. The Bluetooth on iOS devices is AAC only, not LDAC or AptX HD.


----------



## Pablovi

Hinomotocho said:


> I own both and although I don't use for this set up I would deem the WM1A to be the better quality option. From information I have read it is recommended to use the 3.5mm output at 80 volume. Apparently there is about a second lag with the bluetooth audio for the WM1A so for movies or games you can either adjust in the player software if available or the BTR5 may be the better choice. I use android but it can be used as an external dac for both - the appropriate cable for Apple products may be included in the accessories(?).
> For the amp/receiver the WM1A may be the best quality option but for portability the BTR5 is a great size, this was one of the reasons I chose it although I have yet to purchase a cable for android and try it out.



Thanks!

I use my WM1A with the 3.5mm headphone out to a RCA cable to my pre amp.   But most people says I shouldnt do that, that it could damage the DAP. So I want to use the BTR5 as a LDAC receiver. But don’t know how good will that be? I could buy a Bluetooth receiver like the ifi Zen Blue, or similar. But since I cañ use this as an external DAC and a BT receiver, I thought I just buy one device, instead of two.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Sep 27, 2020)

Pablovi said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I use my WM1A with the 3.5mm headphone out to a RCA cable to my pre amp.   But most people says I shouldnt do that, that it could damage the DAP. So I want to use the BTR5 as a LDAC receiver. But don’t know how good will that be? I could buy a Bluetooth receiver like the ifi Zen Blue, or similar. But since I cañ use this as an external DAC and a BT receiver, I thought I just buy one device, instead of two.


You're welcome.
I am looking into getting an amp to use with my WM1A 3.5mm output and from what I have read on the WM1A/1Z thread this is the common/only method and I think is even recommended by Sony - I am certain it won't cause any damage as it is purely output but you may want to double check as I don't have actual experience. The 4.4mm output is a no-no unless it the amp is specifically designed to accept the balanced output like the Oriolus BA300s.
If you want to save money you can just use your WM1A but otherwise the BTR5 may offer other uses. Depending on specs for your earphones or headphones the new Fiio Q3 might offer higher specs if you need them but the BTR5 wins for size, although it can be slightly awkward to tether to a phone.
If from using your WM1A you have 4.4mm cables for you earphones the new Q3 will have 2.5/3.5/4.4mm.


----------



## jsmiller58

Pablovi said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I want to use it so I can get a better DAC when using my phone or tablet. The USB C- 3.5mm dongle it’s capped at 48khz. And the Ligthing to 3.5mm is only16bit 44.1khz. And yes, neither my iPhone, nor the iPad have a headphone out. The Bluetooth on iOS devices is AAC only, not LDAC or AptX HD.


I just checked and playing Tidal out of my iPad into the BTR5 through usb shows up to 96khz.  I have a few sample wav and flac files that I can confirm run up to 192khz (as demonstrated on the BTR5 LED display).  The specs say up to 384khz so I can believe it, though I don’t have source material to prove it.


----------



## Pablovi

jsmiller58 said:


> I just checked and playing Tidal out of my iPad into the BTR5 through usb shows up to 96khz.  I have a few sample wav and flac files that I can confirm run up to 192khz (as demonstrated on the BTR5 LED display).  The specs say up to 384khz so I can believe it, though I don’t have source material to prove it.



Thanks, that might be a Tidal limit. Do you have Vox? I use Vox and have all my music in the cloud, about half of it high res. It supposedly outputs at the DAC highest resolution. Can you doenload Voxm upload some high res files and test it? It’s free with some limitations. 

I know it’s just a minute difference between 96khz and 192khz. Or in my case 48khz and 96khz. But I can use it for that, to be a bluetooth receiver for my main analog system, and for my car, my car stereo only accepts SBC Bluetooth, I’m guessing LDAC will be a huge improvement.  

Thanks again!


----------



## Pablovi

Hinomotocho said:


> You're welcome.
> I am looking into getting an amp to use with my WM1A 3.5mm output and from what I have read on the WM1A/1Z thread this is the common/only method and I think is even recommended by Sony - I am certain it won't cause any damage as it is purely output but you may want to double check as I don't have actual experience. The 4.4mm output is a no-no unless it the amp is specifically designed to accept the balanced output like the Oriolus BA300s.
> If you want to save money you can just use your WM1A but otherwise the BTR5 may offer other uses. Depending on specs for your earphones or headphones the new Fiio Q3 might offer higher specs if you need them but the BTR5 wins for size, although it can be slightly awkward to tether to a phone.
> If from using your WM1A you have 4.4mm cables for you earphones the new Q3 will have 2.5/3.5/4.4mm.



Thanks, yeah, I use my WM1A with 4.4mm cables and IEM’s, I don’t have anything fancy, just Chifi. And Sony XM with LDAC. I only want the BTR5 to bypass the DAP 3.5mm out connection. And use LDAC to the BTR5 and connect that to my preamp. And I would also use it for the same with my car, the stereo in my car only uses SBC, so I guess LDAC would be a huge difference. And I also want it to get better audio form my iPad and iPhone as an external DAC, and connect headphones directly to that.

I’m between buying a Sony MDR 1AM2 and this BTR5. Or buying a better Bluetooth headphone, like the Shure Aonic 50.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Pablovi said:


> Thanks, yeah, I use my WM1A with 4.4mm cables and IEM’s, I don’t have anything fancy, just Chifi. And Sony XM with LDAC. I only want the BTR5 to bypass the DAP 3.5mm out connection. And use LDAC to the BTR5 and connect that to my preamp. And I would also use it for the same with my car, the stereo in my car only uses SBC, so I guess LDAC would be a huge difference. And I also want it to get better audio form my iPad and iPhone as an external DAC, and connect headphones directly to that.
> 
> I’m between buying a Sony MDR 1AM2 and this BTR5. Or buying a better Bluetooth headphone, like the Shure Aonic 50.


The 1AM2 would also go nicely with your WM1A and using the 4.4mm output would give you more battery life. I prefer wired over bluetooth headphones for various reasons, I feel the BTR5 gives you the ability to have the advantages of having cabled headphones but also the ability to use them with a great sounding small bluetooth device that can also be used like a remote - 2 for 1


----------



## littlenezt

FiiO said:


> *New added Custom button function,BTR5 FW2.0 is now available!*
> 
> *The following changes and improvements have been made in FW2.0:*
> 
> ...


hey there, i have updated my BTR5 and install the FiiO Control App, which menu to custom the button function?


----------



## sensenonno

FiiO said:


> *New added Custom button function,BTR5 FW2.0 is now available!*
> 
> *The following changes and improvements have been made in FW2.0:*
> 
> ...



IOS app not updated yet? Dont see any new custom button function yet.


----------



## Hinomotocho

littlenezt said:


> hey there, i have updated my BTR5 and install the FiiO Control App, which menu to custom the button function?


Go to the settings icon in the top left corner then select the bluetooth device control option on the 3rd top right.


----------



## littlenezt

Hinomotocho said:


> Go to the settings icon in the top left corner then select the bluetooth device control option on the 3rd top right.


uhh.. im not using the "FiiO Music" app

im using the "FiiO Control" app.

or is the fiio control app hasnt been updated yet?


----------



## Hinomotocho

littlenezt said:


> uhh.. im not using the "FiiO Music" app
> 
> im using the "FiiO Control" app.
> 
> or is the fiio control app hasnt been updated yet?


I got mixed up there - it seems not only the music app allows you to change the volume button settings, although when I used it yesterday the options were in Chinese


----------



## sensenonno

both iphone 
apps are still few months old .


----------



## FiiO

Hinomotocho said:


> I got mixed up there - it seems not only the music app allows you to change the volume button settings, although when I used it yesterday the options were in Chinese


Dear user,

You could try the FiiO Music 3.0.1 Android device version for help instead now:  Click here 




Best regards


----------



## Hinomotocho

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> You could try the FiiO Music 3.0.1 Android device version for help instead now:  Click here
> 
> ...


Thank you for the update


----------



## Sunstealer

Just bought the BTR5 running 1.0.6 firmware. Works well with my Oneplus 6 running Neutron. I have a Mac - therefore cannot upgrade. This is an ongoing problem but @FiiO seem content to ignore it. Would it be possible in the future to use Fiio Control app to download the update and pass it to the BTR5 via usb-c?


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

My brother can’t enable ldac when using btr5 with his Samsung galaxy s20. Does any one know how to enable it. Until now can only use aptx ><


----------



## lucasd

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> You could try the FiiO Music 3.0.1 Android device version for help instead now:  Click here
> 
> ...


I don't have android, when will you update iphone version?


----------



## jeejack

Green Golden Retriver said:


> My brother can’t enable ldac when using btr5 with his Samsung galaxy s20. Does any one know how to enable it. Until now can only use aptx ><


You have to enable developer option menu and from there you change the codec. See tutorials in youtube. Is very easy


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

jeejack said:


> You have to enable developer option menu and from there you change the codec. See tutorials in youtube. Is very easy


Thank you very much.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Is it true I remember z reviews said btr5 are great with iem compared to more expensive m11 and m11 pro?


----------



## CoryGillmore

Can this device be used as a BT transmitter? Like say plug the device into a Windows laptop and then feed a lossless BT signal to a pair of true wireless IEMs?


----------



## Ichos

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Is it true I remember z reviews said btr5 are great with iem compared to more expensive m11 and m11 pro?



M11 and even more M11Pro are better sounding be it iems or headphones.


----------



## jeejack

CoryGillmore said:


> Can this device be used as a BT transmitter? Like say plug the device into a Windows laptop and then feed a lossless BT signal to a pair of true wireless IEMs?


Don't work in dac mod


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Oct 2, 2020)

CoryGillmore said:


> Can this device be used as a BT transmitter? Like say plug the device into a Windows laptop and then feed a lossless BT signal to a pair of true wireless IEMs?


No.
It's a receiver only. 
For your purpose take a look at the Creative Bluetooth dongle version 3.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Ichos said:


> M11 and even more M11Pro are better sounding be it iems or headphones.


Ok I thought so too. Why would same company sell inferior product for higher price . lol

I should come to head fi for more accurate review than YouTube ^^


----------



## CoryGillmore

Chris Kaoss said:


> No.
> It's a receiver only.
> For your purpose take a look at the Creative Bluetooth dongle version 3.


Thanks brother!


----------



## PTDennis (Oct 3, 2020)

@FiiO congratulations for releasing the new BTR5 2.0 firmware but, as asked before, when will you release a new version of the iOS Apps? I also do not have Android.
Another question is, when we will be able to update the firmware using Mac OS?


----------



## Sunstealer

I tried to update on Mac via Wine but wouldn't recognise the BTR5 when plugged in, in DFU mode.


----------



## Pablovi

PTDennis said:


> @FiiO congratulations for releasing the new BTR5 2.0 firmware but, as asked before, when will you release a new version of the iOS Apps? I also do not have Android.
> Another question is, when we will be able to update the firmware using Mac OS?



So, there’s no iOS app? And you cannot update with a MAC? The I definitely won’t buy this or the Q5S.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

How to update firmware?


----------



## PTDennis

Sunstealer said:


> I tried to update on Mac via Wine but wouldn't recognise the BTR5 when plugged in, in DFU mode.


I also tried using a virtual machine and it does not work. Only if you really use a Windows PC. @Pablovi, yes there are iOS apps. They are just not updated and therefore I was asking @FiiO when we will receive it, as well as receive the Mac firmware update process.


----------



## soufiaj

Same here, I don’t have Windows PC around me so I cannot upgrade to FW v2.0 yet. However will this upgrade brings any substantial different in any way? I noticed my BTR5 sometimes having the playback issue where the track plays faster/slower and elevated key. I’m using it as USB DAC on my iPhone via Tidal app & it happens especially with Master playback.

Apart from that, just curious if someone can explain what are the Second and Third Harmonic Distortion setting option in FiiO app? Just curious about it and can’t find them in google search.


----------



## LoryWiv (Oct 3, 2020)

soufiaj said:


> Same here, I don’t have Windows PC around me so I cannot upgrade to FW v2.0 yet. However will this upgrade brings any substantial different in any way? I noticed my BTR5 sometimes having the playback issue where the track plays faster/slower and elevated key. I’m using it as USB DAC on my iPhone via Tidal app & it happens especially with Master playback.
> 
> Apart from that, just curious if someone can explain what are the Second and Third Harmonic Distortion setting option in FiiO app? Just curious about it and can’t find them in google search.


Harmonics are integers of the fundamental frequency. Please see *here*. Harmonic distortion is the effect of these additional frequencies and said to alter the character of sound, with tube amps traditionally having more prominent second and other even-order harmonics and solid state more odd order harmonics. The former tend to be more musical and the latter more analytic as a BIG generalization, Of course the sonic impact also depends on other aspects of amp. design, so YMMV. Others may be able to explain the correlation on harmonics to sound characteristics better than my rudimentary generalization above. For me, setting 2nd order to "4: and 3rd order to "2" achieves a nice balance of "tube-like" musicality versus analytic "solid state" type sound,Hope that helps, but of course YMMV. 

Below is an excerpt from *here* that adds a bit more detail.
Triode-based tube amplifiers tend to have very little energy in the higher harmonics, so a tube amp with 1% THD exhibits mostly 2nd harmonic with very little of the other harmonics.  A 2nd harmonic tone 40 dB below the fundamental (equating to 1%) is quite difficult for the human ear to detect.  Early transistor amplifiers, on the other hand, were dominated by odd harmonics, primarily the 3rd and 5th, to which the human ear is significantly more sensitive. [So] engineers realized that in order to achieve comparable sound quality with an amplifier producing mostly 3rd and 5th harmonic distortion, the maximum allowable level of distortion had to be reduced by 10 – 20 dB, to .3% or even .1% THD+N.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Has anyone ever compared the sound quality differences between LDAC and ACC.

I have iPhone can only use ACC and always wonder how much I’m missing out


----------



## Pablovi

PTDennis said:


> I also tried using a virtual machine and it does not work. Only if you really use a Windows PC. @Pablovi, yes there are iOS apps. They are just not updated and therefore I was asking @FiiO when we will receive it, as well as receive the Mac firmware update process.



Thanks, but that’s the thing, if they won’t update it, it’s only a matter of time before it disappears, and if you can’t update the device itself, then it useless. I was planning to buy this or the Q5S. But now I don’t think I’ll do it, unless they get support for Mac users.

Thanks again!


----------



## soufiaj

LoryWiv said:


> Harmonics are integers of the fundamental frequency. Please see *here*. Harmonic distortion is the effect of these additional frequencies and said to alter the character of sound, with tube amps traditionally having more prominent second and other even-order harmonics and solid state more odd order harmonics. The former tend to be more musical and the latter more analytic as a BIG generalization, Of course the sonic impact also depends on other aspects of amp. design, so YMMV. Others may be able to explain the correlation on harmonics to sound characteristics better than my rudimentary generalization above. For me, setting 2nd order to "4: and 3rd order to "2" achieves a nice balance of "tube-like" musicality versus analytic "solid state" type sound,Hope that helps, but of course YMMV.
> 
> Below is an excerpt from *here* that adds a bit more detail.
> Triode-based tube amplifiers tend to have very little energy in the higher harmonics, so a tube amp with 1% THD exhibits mostly 2nd harmonic with very little of the other harmonics.  A 2nd harmonic tone 40 dB below the fundamental (equating to 1%) is quite difficult for the human ear to detect.  Early transistor amplifiers, on the other hand, were dominated by odd harmonics, primarily the 3rd and 5th, to which the human ear is significantly more sensitive. [So] engineers realized that in order to achieve comparable sound quality with an amplifier producing mostly 3rd and 5th harmonic distortion, the maximum allowable level of distortion had to be reduced by 10 – 20 dB, to .3% or even .1% THD+N.



Dear friend,

Appreciate much for the brief explanation with thanks. You made me feel contented for now to simply enjoy my listening session after reading those. Although some of the technicalities and terminology were fairly beyond my knowledge, _(or maybe just for me)_, for now I doubt that my current on-the-go setup has something to do with it just yet. Maybe in the future with my “end-game” gears - where my miles are vary from today. Cheerio!


----------



## sarkar1990

Hello, I had a query. Is there a way to use the dual dac setup for the 3.5mm SE port? Same way as the UP4 has a dual dac mode?


----------



## ClieOS

sarkar1990 said:


> Hello, I had a query. Is there a way to use the dual dac setup for the 3.5mm SE port? Same way as the UP4 has a dual dac mode?



It is a hardware implementation that can not be changed.


----------



## sebek

Hello, can you suggest me some cables from amazon to connect the btr5 to my xiaomi redmi note 8 in usb dac mode?


----------



## Sunstealer

I use ugreen from AE. Works well, good quality.


----------



## sebek

Sunstealer said:


> I use ugreen from AE. Works well, good quality.


Can you link the exact cable please? I've never used them. Thank you


----------



## Sunstealer

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32864276247.html


----------



## Devodonaldson

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Has anyone ever compared the sound quality differences between LDAC and ACC.
> 
> I have iPhone can only use ACC and always wonder how much I’m missing out


Definitely. I have several android phones, and have used an iPhone 7 as digital transport for the last year and a half due to the beautiful bit-perfect transport to all apps for audio. But when it comes to Bluetooth listening,  LDAC beats it hands down. It has to do with the amount of information and basically the cutoff freq of the different codes. AAC rolls off a little earlier than APTX definitely earlier than APTX HD, and you hear even more of the top end with LDAC. it's the upper frequencies where the lower codecs begin to fail and that plays a part in staging feel, transparency, and detail.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Devodonaldson said:


> Definitely. I have several android phones, and have used an iPhone 7 as digital transport for the last year and a half due to the beautiful bit-perfect transport to all apps for audio. But when it comes to Bluetooth listening,  LDAC beats it hands down. It has to do with the amount of information and basically the cutoff freq of the different codes. AAC rolls off a little earlier than APTX definitely earlier than APTX HD, and you hear even more of the top end with LDAC. it's the upper frequencies where the lower codecs begin to fail and that plays a part in staging feel, transparency, and detail.


I never have android phone >< 

iphone 4 then 6 plus then X.

when will iphone ever support Ldac ><
Anyway thanks for your detailed explanation


----------



## Devodonaldson

Green Golden Retriver said:


> I never have android phone ><
> 
> iphone 4 then 6 plus then X.
> 
> ...


Iphone will NEVER support LDAC. It's built its system on AAC. Honestly not focused on audio quality,  rather overall user experience,  etc. IOS audio is coded in AAC, so no additional. No conversion necessary.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Devodonaldson said:


> Iphone will NEVER support LDAC. It's built its system on AAC. Honestly not focused on audio quality,  rather overall user experience,  etc. IOS audio is coded in AAC, so no additional. No conversion necessary.


Ahhhh that sucks.

maybe someday I will switch to Android. lol


----------



## sebek

To use my current iems (KZ ZS10 Pro and Blon BL 03) with the BTR5 balanced output just take a simple 2.5mm NICEHCK 8 Core copper cable?

No problem? Need anything else? thanks a lot


----------



## SenorChang8

sebek said:


> To use my current iems (KZ ZS10 Pro and Blon BL 03) with the BTR5 balanced output just take a simple 2.5mm NICEHCK 8 Core copper cable?
> 
> No problem? Need anything else? thanks a lot



That’s it, I assume you’ll be using an audio source via Bluetooth and/or USB?


----------



## sebek

[QUOTE = "SenorChang8, post: 15902236, membro: 533341"]
È così, presumo che utilizzerai una sorgente audio tramite Bluetooth e / o USB?
[/CITAZIONE]
Sì, smartphone and laptop


----------



## ClieOS

Devodonaldson said:


> Iphone will NEVER support LDAC. It's built its system on AAC. Honestly not focused on audio quality,  rather overall user experience,  etc. IOS audio is coded in AAC, so no additional. No conversion necessary.



Actually whether it is iOS or Android, or whether the music is AAC or not doesn't matter much to the Bluetooth chip. When sound is sent over BT, it will always get decoded back to PCM first, then re-encoded using the BT codec (AAC or LDAC, or any codec both transmitter and receiver agreed to use). So even for iOS devices, AAC encoded music will get decoded back to PCM first, then recoded back to AAC for BT transmission. Hence the process is always lossy and you will take a hit on SQ technically.


----------



## lucasd

Devodonaldson said:


> Iphone will NEVER support LDAC. It's built its system on AAC. Honestly not focused on audio quality,  rather overall user experience,  etc. IOS audio is coded in AAC, so no additional. No conversion necessary.


You cannot compare AAC on android vs iphone.  AAC on iphone is much better optimized and is visible in tests.
However LDAC would have advantage but it is not going to happen.

To easy see possible difference compare BT vs on cable (LDAC will be worse than this, but closer than AAC).


----------



## Devodonaldson

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Ahhhh that sucks.
> 
> maybe someday I will switch to Android. lol


Or, just get a good used android phone with micro SD and use as a portable media player.


----------



## big45-70

I just think of Bluetooth for convince and wired for quality.  Just like anything else... wifi vs wired internet etc


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Is it possible to connect btr5 to your Dap? Just curious


----------



## jsmiller58

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Is it possible to connect btr5 to your Dap? Just curious


How?  By BT?  By USBC?  On my R6 Pro, yes to both


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

jsmiller58 said:


> How?  By BT?  By USBC?  On my R6 Pro, yes to both


By Bt so I can compare quality of ldac to aac of my iPhone lol


----------



## jsmiller58

Green Golden Retriver said:


> By Bt so I can compare quality of ldac to aac of my iPhone lol


Sorry, I am not entirely sure what you are asking...  is it possible to connect the BTR5 to a DAP was your original question, to which the answer is yes (both Bluetooth and USBC).  Can I tell a difference between LDAC and wired?  No, I personally cannot, but others with presumably better hearing than mine claim they can.  How will AAC sound compared to LDAC?  I do not know as I use my Android phone with my BTR5 and exclusively use aptX , aptX HD, and LDAC.  You will not have access to LDAC when pairing to your iPhone as that codec is not supported by Apple.


----------



## sebek

Tomorrow the btr5 should arrive, but to enjoy it in all its potential as far as I understand I will have to wait for the arrival of the usb c cable to listen to it wired and the 2.5mm cable to use the balanced output ...

With bluetooth and unbalanced output is it superior to a FiiO M3 Pro and Apple USB C?


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

jsmiller58 said:


> Sorry, I am not entirely sure what you are asking...  is it possible to connect the BTR5 to a DAP was your original question, to which the answer is yes (both Bluetooth and USBC).  Can I tell a difference between LDAC and wired?  No, I personally cannot, but others with presumably better hearing than mine claim they can.  How will AAC sound compared to LDAC?  I do not know as I use my Android phone with my BTR5 and exclusively use aptX , aptX HD, and LDAC.  You will not have access to LDAC when pairing to your iPhone as that codec is not supported by Apple.


I meant testing Ldac and aac with tidal just to see how much better ldac sounds.
i don’t have android phone so I never tried ldac before.
1) iPhone X + btr5 + tidal hifi = aac 
2) SR15 + btr5 + tidal hifi = ldac
play the same track on tidal hifi with same iem or hp to see if the difference in ACC vs LDAC.

would it be possible to connect SR15 to btr5 ?


----------



## ClieOS

Green Golden Retriver said:


> I meant testing Ldac and aac with tidal just to see how much better ldac sounds.
> i don’t have android phone so I never tried ldac before.
> 1) iPhone X + btr5 + tidal hifi = aac
> 2) SR15 + btr5 + tidal hifi = ldac
> ...



As long ass SR15  supports Bluetooth and LDAC.


----------



## sebek

*In the BTR5 where can you see which firmware version is installed?
*


----------



## sebek

Anyway it just arrived and I'm trying it a bit with Spotify and flac, already with bluetooth and unbalanced output the sound quality is amazing.


----------



## derzemel (Oct 8, 2020)

Fiio have released the BTR5 2.0 firmware.
*No equalizer options for LDAC (or USB) *have been added, as some BTR5 users were wishing/asking for.
In the list of changes for this firmware, at point 2, I see the following change: *Added new options to the APP: Custom button function, Long press/Double tap the volume button to switch songs. *This was the change I was hoping for, to hold the volume button for volume and double-tap to change tracks.
But when I go searching for this *Double Tap volume to change track *option, it is missing from the Fiio Control app and from the Fiio BTR5 menu after updating.
In the Fiio Control app, in the Guide section, for buttons C and D, I can see the instructions are *Vol. up/Pre. Track, Select options under a submenu ;* and *Vol. down/Next. Track, Select options under a submenu; *(image), but I am unable to find that "submenu" anywhere in The Fiio Control app, or on the BTR5 itself
As you can see from this image, i have the Btr5 updated to firmware Version 2.0:







In the Fiio Control app I see the option (image) to rename the bluetooth device (change no. 1 from the 2.0 firmware version), so, the update seems to have been applied.


----------



## Nick24JJ

Hi guys.

I received my BTR5 a couple of hours ago and testing it. I have upgraded to firmware 2.0. It is connected to my POCO F2 PRO, LDAC connection. Is this the best possible connection I can achieve? I am listening to Amazon Music Unlimited + my FLACs via TRI I3. 

I have a few questions:

1) What is the best? Volume at max on the phone and controlling it from the BTR5 or the opposite?
2) I had the FiiO Music app installed. Do I need to install the FiiO Control app, as well?
3) I have set the DAC clock divider level to 1. Does this give the best possible sound quality?
4) I have counted 8 different Lowpass filters. Which one is the best for the best sound quality? (default: apodizing fast roll-off filter type 1)

Thank you!


----------



## Nick24JJ

Nick24JJ said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I received my BTR5 a couple of hours ago and testing it. I have upgraded to firmware 2.0. It is connected to my POCO F2 PRO, LDAC connection. Is this the best possible connection I can achieve? I am listening to Amazon Music Unlimited + my FLACs via TRI I3.
> 
> ...



Hello @FiiO , any response to these questions, please?


----------



## FiiO

derzemel said:


> Fiio have released the BTR5 2.0 firmware.
> *No equalizer options for LDAC (or USB) *have been added, as some BTR5 users were wishing/asking for.
> In the list of changes for this firmware, at point 2, I see the following change: *Added new options to the APP: Custom button function, Long press/Double tap the volume button to switch songs. *This was the change I was hoping for, to hold the volume button for volume and double-tap to change tracks.
> But when I go searching for this *Double Tap volume to change track *option, it is missing from the Fiio Control app and from the Fiio BTR5 menu after updating.
> ...


Dear user,

1. You could use the FiiO Music 3.0.1 version instead to enable that function.
2. Some option doesn't have submenu. But like 'filter' option, you could switch the options like apoo1,apoo2 in the submenu using volume+&- buttons. 

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Nick24JJ said:


> Hello @FiiO , any response to these questions, please?
> 1) I already had the FiiO Music app installed. Do I need to install the FiiO Control app, as well?
> 2) I have set the DAC clock divider level to 1. Does this give the best possible sound quality?
> 3) I have counted 8 different Lowpass filters. Which one is the best for the best sound quality? (default: apodizing fast roll-off filter type 1)


Dear user,

1. You could use the FiiO Music app for help directly. No need to install the FiiO control app.
2. Do you mean the u-audio option? If you would like to play higher sampling rate file via the BTR5, you could switch to USB2.0 instead.
3. The audio sense varies from different people. It can be chosen based on your own preference. 

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

sebek said:


> *In the BTR5 where can you see which firmware version is installed?*


Dear user,

You could check the firmware version in the BTR5 directly: 




Best regards


----------



## FiiO

PTDennis said:


> @FiiO congratulations for releasing the new BTR5 2.0 firmware but, as asked before, when will you release a new version of the iOS Apps? I also do not have Android.
> Another question is, when we will be able to update the firmware using Mac OS?


Dear user,

The new APP for iOS devices will be available at about this month. 
The firmware could not be updated by mac.  Sorry.

Best regards


----------



## sebek

@FiiO

yesterday i was listening to my btr5 via ldac, i paused a bit and walked away. when I came back it had turned off and didn't turn back on in any way. then I thought to connect it to the PC for a moment and when I unplugged it and pressed play it came back on normally.

what happened ??


----------



## FiiO

sebek said:


> @FiiO
> 
> yesterday i was listening to my btr5 via ldac, i paused a bit and walked away. when I came back it had turned off and didn't turn back on in any way. then I thought to connect it to the PC for a moment and when I unplugged it and pressed play it came back on normally.
> 
> what happened ??


Dear user,

There may be a system bug with the BTR5. And you reset it by connecting to the PC.

Best regards


----------



## Nick24JJ (Oct 9, 2020)

FiiO said:


> 2. Do you mean the u-audio option? If you would like to play higher sampling rate file via the BTR5, you could switch to USB2.0 instead.
> 
> 
> Best regards



Thank you for your reply, @FiiO

Re: question 2, no I mean, when you open FiiO Music app, for example, go to Settings, Bluetooth device control then connect the BTR5, then Audio, scroll down you see: DAC clock divider level. 

Is 1 the best possible sound quality when I use the BTR5 with my smartphone?


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I'm really loving my Fiio BTR5.   There are only 2 things that annoy me about it.  

1) You can't take it out of menu mode without just waiting until it times out.   Wish there was a way to toggle it off with a button.
2) The Fiio connects to anything it has been paired with.    This is a problem with Apple ios because it will connect to any apple device when you don't want it to.   So, I just turn it off when I am not using it.


----------



## lucavmw

hi, could someone tell me if btr5 is mqa compatible? If not, do you know if exist an mqa bt ???


----------



## ClieOS

lucavmw said:


> hi, could someone tell me if btr5 is mqa compatible? If not, do you know if exist an mqa bt ???



Not such a thing as MQA compatible BT.


----------



## lucavmw

ClieOS said:


> Not such a thing as MQA compatible BT


 therefore how can you use ldac if there is no possible source?!?!?


----------



## hmscott

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I'm really loving my Fiio BTR5.   There are only 2 things that annoy me about it.
> 
> 1) You can't take it out of menu mode without just waiting until it times out.   Wish there was a way to toggle it off with a button.
> 2) The Fiio connects to anything it has been paired with.    This is a problem with Apple ios because it will connect to any apple device when you don't want it to.   So, I just turn it off when I am not using it.


Same button that put you in menu mode takes you out.

When not in menu mode a single press of the "power button" brings up the connection details - wakes up the screen.

Hold the power button longer and up pops the menu.

Short press the power button to jump from menu option to next.

Then when you are done with the Menu press and hold the power button until the connection details swaps in from menu, there you go.


----------



## ClieOS

lucavmw said:


> therefore how can you use ldac if there is no possible source?!?!?



Is this a separated question?

My Android smartphone supports LDAC just fine as a source, so are many other Android smartphones and DAP.


----------



## hmscott (Oct 10, 2020)

lucavmw said:


> hi, could someone tell me if btr5 is mqa compatible? If not, do you know if exist an mqa bt ???


You can decode MQA from a file and decode MQA from USB DAC mode, and decode MQA from a network stream, but not from a BT stream as BT encoding ruins the MQA bits such that there is no MQA "end to end" assurance possible.

It would be possible for a device to decode an MQA file / or as USB DAC / or as a MQA network stream and re-encode that resulting audio output into a BT digital stream, but it wouldn't be MQA per se as it would be a BT altered "copy".

I've heard the MQA people are working on a wireless delivery "standard" for MQA, and I heard it was scheduled for release in 2020, but it's not been seen yet.

Then there's this:

The first MQA headphones are (nearly) here
By What Hi-Fi? September 01, 2020
The Asus ROG Delta S are aimed at gamers and are the first headphones with MQA Renderer technology
https://www.whathifi.com/us/news/the-first-mqa-headphones-are-nearly-here

That suggests MQA encoding in game audio is coming - delivered from a file through an MQA decoder / renderer- not sure if the MQA hardware is in the headphone and requires a USB connection, or if the device is outboard and the headphones use a regular analogue connection.

MQA is growing in delivery methods because it's a sonically pleasing way to deliver high bit rate recordings in a "compressed" size without a reduction in fidelity. 

https://www.mqa.co.uk/
https://www.mqa.co.uk/newsroom
https://www.mqa.co.uk/newsroom/news/asus-headphones
https://www.mqa.co.uk/newsroom/qa/what-is-mqa


----------



## lucavmw

so.. if I use tidal or spotify for btr5 makes no differences?


----------



## hmscott (Oct 13, 2020)

lucavmw said:


> so.. if I use tidal or spotify for btr5 makes no differences?


Listen to both and decide for yourself.  

For me I prefer Tidal streaming Premium / HIFI better than Amazon Music HD / Ultra HD which I like better than Spotify - which sounds like Apple Music to me -  and Tidal Masters MQA is the icing on the Cake that is Tidal HIFI for me.

Going with Tidal now so when you upgrade to a DAC that supports MQA all of your playlists and Tidal GUI familiarity will be there as continuity to MQA enjoyment. And, you don't need the expensive Premium Tidal then, start with the less expensive subscription.

Even gaming headphones are getting MQA rendering:

The first MQA headphones are (nearly) here By What Hi-Fi? September 01, 2020
The Asus ROG Delta S are aimed at gamers and are the first headphones with MQA Renderer technology
https://www.whathifi.com/us/news/the-first-mqa-headphones-are-nearly-here
https://www.mqa.co.uk/newsroom/news/asus-headphones

And when you are ready for an Annual Tidal subscription with Premium or HIFI with MQA Masters, BestBuy offers an inexpensive way to get Tidal Premium for only $119 a year instead of $239.88:

TIDAL - HiFi Music, 12-Month Subscription (new subscribers only) Auto-renews at $119.99 per year [Digital] $119.99

TIDAL - Premium Music, 12-Month Subscription (new subscribers only) Auto-renews at $79.99 per year [Digital] - $79.99

There are shorter Tidal subscriptions for both on BestBuy too...


----------



## LoryWiv

Question for other users: Is there an easy way to switch between Bluetooth and DAC modes when the BTR5 is connected via USB? I can only do this by turning off the bluetooth source and / or disconnecting then reconnecting the USB plug. I suspect there is an easier way.

In addition, last time I did this it read the FiiO DAC information (EG - bitrate displayed on BTR5 screen) but there was no sound output, very strange indeed.

I love the BTR5 overall and would appreciate tips from experienced users to eliminate these small annoyances.

Thanks.


----------



## Nick24JJ

Can you please suggest me a good cable to connect my phone with my BTR5? Like the  FiiO LT-TC1.

Thank you


----------



## sebek (Oct 10, 2020)

I got the fiio lt-tc1 "pure copper for pure sound"

on the previous page they recommended an urgreen cable


----------



## Nick24JJ (Oct 11, 2020)

@sebek , thank you for your reply 

The FiiO LT-TC1 is currently unavailable and they do not even know when it will be back in stock

I am confused. 
I do not know which cable is appropriate.

All I want to do is connect my smartphone with the BTR5. My phone has USB Type-C 2.0, USB On-The-Go port.


Can anyone, please, suggest me a good On-The-Go cable for this matter? Please, give a link, preferably from Amazon UK because I do not want to wait for 20-30-40 days to receive this item!

@FiiO , since your product, FiiO LT-TC1, is not currently available, which other cable would you suggest?


----------



## Sunstealer (Oct 11, 2020)

Nick24JJ said:


> @sebek , thank you for your reply
> 
> The FiiO LT-TC1 is currently unavailable and they do not even know when it will be back in stock
> 
> ...



Your phone looks like it has a standard USB C port. Any USB c cable should be fine - I did buy the Fiio cable from Aliexpress but it is overpriced for what it is. I would suggest this cable - I have a bought a few of these and they work fine with my OnePlus 6.


----------



## PTDennis

hmscott said:


> Listen to both and decide for yourself.
> 
> For me I prefer Tidal streaming Premium / HIFI better than Amazon Music / HD which I like better than Spotify - which sounds like Apple Music to me -  and Tidal Masters MQA is the icing on the Cake that is Tidal HIFI for me.
> 
> ...


Another option is to use a VPN, and subscribe through Turkey. It is much cheaper. 29,99 Turkish Liras per month for the Tidal Master Family plan +/- 3,25€ or 3,80$


----------



## Nick24JJ (Oct 11, 2020)

Sunstealer said:


> Your phone looks like it has a standard USB C port. Any USB c cable should be fine - I did buy the Fiio cable from Aliexpress but it is overpriced for what it is. I would suggest this cable - I have a bought a few of these and they work fine with my OnePlus 6.



Thank you, at last a link!

You are right and I apologize, already edited my initial post: my phone has a standard USB C port and even BTR5's cable fits in! So, thank you for the suggestion, just one thing... Is there any shorter cable of similar quality, please? I will use it on-the-go, some times. That UGREEN is half a meter long...

By the way, the only reason I am getting this cable is to discover the absolute best sound quality my combination, smartphone + BTR5 + Tri I3, can achieve! Because Bluetooth is lossy. So, for example, if I will play a FLAC file of 1100 kbps from my smartphone via BTR5 (LDAC) I will be listening to max 990 kbps, or something like that. Correct? Have I got this right?


----------



## Devodonaldson

Nick24JJ said:


> @sebek , thank you for your reply
> 
> The FiiO LT-TC1 is currently unavailable and they do not even know when it will be back in stock
> 
> ...


I use these to connect to my Samsung phone without issue. Check this out: AmazonBasics USB Type-C to USB Type-C 2.0 Cable - 15.2 cm ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awdb_btf_t1_1lTGFb25FPMX2


----------



## Sunstealer

Nick24JJ said:


> Thank you, at last a link!
> 
> You are right and I apologize, already edited my initial post: my phone has a standard USB C port and even BTR5's cable fits in! So, thank you for the suggestion, just one thing... Is there any shorter cable of similar quality, please? I will use it on-the-go, some times. That UGREEN is half a meter long...
> 
> By the way, the only reason I am getting this cable is to discover the absolute best sound quality my combination, smartphone + BTR5 + Tri I3, can achieve! Because Bluetooth is lossless. So, for example, if I will play a FLAC file of 1100 kbps from my smartphone via BTR5 (LDAC) I will be listening to max 990 kbps, or something like that. Correct? Have I got this right?


I think so but in practice I have found that even when you try and set it at 990 in developer options it might not work (I haven't tried because I don't use the BTR5 in BT mode at all) and default to 660. Give it a try.


----------



## sebek

But is the difference between bluetooth and wired only in those few bitrates? I read here on the forum that the sound is much better using it wired. Can't wait to try it, I got the cable from aliexpress and I don't think it will arrive for 10 days.


----------



## Nick24JJ

Guys, thank you!

Please, tell me is this cable good?
Again, I want to connect my smartphone with the BTR5


----------



## Nick24JJ (Oct 11, 2020)

Okay, so I have just ordered the above cable from NIMASO and it will arrive tomorrow. We will see...



Sunstealer said:


> I think so but in practice I have found that even when you try and set it at 990 in developer options it might not work (I haven't tried because I don't use the BTR5 in BT mode at all) and default to 660. Give it a try.



Okay, so first of all, sorry about the typo, I meant Bluetooth is lossy - already corrected in my initial post.

- How can I see the bit-rate when I am playing a song in my smartphone? I have Music (app), FiiO Music and Foobar2000. I cannot see the file's bit-rate

- How can I know the actual bit-rate BTR5 is playing, when on LDAC?

I have already set all available Audio settings to max, in the Developer settings of my phone


----------



## sebek

On FiiO Music app when I play the song in LDAC it also indicates the bitrate. I have never reached the 990, obviously my smartphone is not able. I arrive at the latest at 870-880.


----------



## Nick24JJ

sebek said:


> On FiiO Music app when I play the song in LDAC it also indicates the bitrate. I have never reached the 990, obviously my smartphone is not able. I arrive at the latest at 870-880.



Thanks, I see it now, as well! I play a FLAC file and it says 44.1 kHz, 16 bit, 1049 kbps. 
From where do you see those 870 - 880 you mention?

By the way... I have tried to listen to Amazon HD a bit with all the Bluetooth settings maxed out in the Developer settings on my phone... The result is that the connection is lost and the music is cut off even when I am in the same room. This is never happening when I leave these settings on 'best effort" or something. I never lose connection while in the same room and I can even go to the next room, some times, and Bluetooth still works.


----------



## sebek

The bitrate should be that 1049 kbps you see.. even my connection sometimes gets lost a bit for a few seconds when I set everything to maximum.


----------



## andys76

This cable 100% works well:
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32961312907.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.274233edBhYGKj


----------



## hmscott (Oct 13, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> Question for other users: Is there an easy way to switch between Bluetooth and DAC modes when the BTR5 is connected via USB? I can only do this by turning off the bluetooth source and / or disconnecting then reconnecting the USB plug. I suspect there is an easier way.
> 
> In addition, last time I did this it read the FiiO DAC information (EG - bitrate displayed on BTR5 screen) but there was no sound output, very strange indeed.
> 
> ...


By setting the USB DAC mode as default in either of the FiiO App(s) you can get close - depending on how deft the BT implementation is on the source device.

Not plugged in to USB the BTR5 will immediately pair with the quickest source you last paired with.  If the BTR5 wakes up plugged in to USB it makes a connection with your connected source and doesn't connect on BT.

If the source won't connect you don't have to cycle BT on and off, on a phone just tap the saved profile for the BTR5 and it should connect.  If there is another source with BT on it might capture the BTR5 first, so if you want to be sure to connect - be quick.  Usually tapping the BTR profile and then turning on the BTR5 will work - maybe a small delay after hitting the BTR5 power button might be better with some sources if they time out quickly when trying to connect.

With my PC the BTR5 can be plugged in to USB and then need to jump up - all I need to do is disconnect the BTR5 from USB and in a few seconds the PC BT connects.  YMMV.  


Nick24JJ said:


> @sebek , thank you for your reply
> 
> The FiiO LT-TC1 is currently unavailable and they do not even know when it will be back in stock
> 
> ...





andys76 said:


> This cable 100% works well:
> https://aliexpress.ru/item/32961312907.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.274233edBhYGKj


Cable TC05 USB cable Type C to Type C for FiiO K3, M7, M6, M9
And, it's in stock on amazon uk:  "Only 1 left in stock."
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-TC05-cable-Type-FiiO/dp/B07NZV515X


----------



## Hisma

hey so I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I do own this device and I'm quite happy with it overall.  For its size and price it does an excellent job.  However I am not very happy with the battery life.  I get maybe 3-4 hours max.  Is that normal?  Any ways to improve battery life on this thing?


----------



## Nick24JJ

hmscott said:


> Cable TC05 USB cable Type C to Type C for FiiO K3, M7, M6, M9
> And, it's in stock on amazon uk:  "Only 1 left in stock."
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-TC05-cable-Type-FiiO/dp/B07NZV515X



Hello, thanks for your suggestion! 

I went on and bought this one, though. I already got it and used it one time. It seems fine to me, I did not have time to use it more


----------



## hmscott

Nick24JJ said:


> Hello, thanks for your suggestion!
> 
> I went on and bought this one, though. I already got it and used it one time. It seems fine to me, I did not have time to use it more


That looks like a nice short one, it's sometimes hard finding sub-1ft cables for our use.


----------



## FiiO

Nick24JJ said:


> Thank you for your reply, @FiiO
> 
> Re: question 2, no I mean, when you open FiiO Music app, for example, go to Settings, Bluetooth device control then connect the BTR5, then Audio, scroll down you see: DAC clock divider level.
> 
> Is 1 the best possible sound quality when I use the BTR5 with my smartphone?


Dear user,

It is recommended to select 1/4 level for Bluetooth input and 1 for USB DAC.

Best regards


----------



## hmscott (Oct 14, 2020)

Hisma said:


> hey so I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I do own this device and I'm quite happy with it overall.  For its size and price it does an excellent job.  However I am not very happy with the battery life.  I get maybe 3-4 hours max.  Is that normal?  Any ways to improve battery life on this thing?


Well, basically tune everything to reduce the power usage of the BTR5.  Shorten the screen on time, turn your sources output to 100% to drive the BTR5 so you can keep the volume lower (less power used by the BTR5 amplifying a stronger input signal), in the app there is a ratio to set 4:1 is lowest CPU power draw - 1:1 is highest CPU power draw but highest fidelity, if you are on USB DAC mode be sure and enable charging and disable BT on your sometimes used sources so only one BT device is attempting to communicate with the BTR5,  try running in L Gain first and increase volume on as much as needed - try to find really well sealing earphone tips to keep the IEM connected so you don't need to turn up the volume to hear it.

Make sure you keep the BTR5 charging when you aren't using it so you have it ready with a full charge when you need it.  That's why I have 3 BTR5's charging, 4 TWS's, and that way I can swap between them while the exhausted unit is charging.  Gets pricy, but nothing like having a fully charged replacement to swap in when the first one runs out of power.  I only have *1* FiiO M15 though, too pricy to have a 2nd backup.  

You could also consider getting a powerbank that is an easy carry to quickly top off the BTR5... it's not a fast charging device - I've tried a couple of fast charging chargers and the BTR5 plods along at 500mA.

If you have a powerful android smartphone with a big battery you could use it to charge the BTR5 while playing or in between sessions.

Please come back and let us know what worked for you, if anything, to get the play time extended.


----------



## FiiO

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I'm really loving my Fiio BTR5.   There are only 2 things that annoy me about it.
> 
> 1) You can't take it out of menu mode without just waiting until it times out.   Wish there was a way to toggle it off with a button.
> 2) The Fiio connects to anything it has been paired with.    This is a problem with Apple ios because it will connect to any apple device when you don't want it to.   So, I just turn it off when I am not using it.


Dear user,

Can't you exit the menu by holding the power button for about 2s?

Best regards


----------



## Sunstealer

@FiiO instead of this low hanging fruit regarding menu mode and settings etc. Would you mind awfully explaining the long standing lack of firmware updates via Mac? Please stop avoiding this question.


----------



## fsi22

How do I easily swap between paired devices? between phone and tv for example.


----------



## hmscott

fsi22 said:


> How do I easily swap between paired devices? between phone and tv for example.


Pretty much the same as other devices.  On the connected source (phone for example), disable BT - if you have a smartwatch or other BT devices like keyboards or pointing device and you need to leave BT on then "touch" the BTR5 profile entry so it disconnects - and be ready on the new source device to start the BT connection.

It's the BT device switching dance, we all do it 

Long ago when Plantronics was on top of the BT heap, they had really handy switching between devices, I miss that - it worked reliably such that I could switch between my office desk phone and my computer, or phone, or other BT source.  IDK why Qualcomm didn't license that from Plantronics early on as it's a necessity for anyone that wants to really be productive with BT headphones.

As I posted earlier, if you set the BTR5 to default to USB DAC mode you can auto switch between USB DAC and BT mode, but other than that it's the BT switching dance.


----------



## fsi22 (Oct 14, 2020)

hmscott said:


> Pretty much the same as other devices.  On the connected source (phone for example), disable BT - if you have a smartwatch or other BT devices like keyboards or pointing device and you need to leave BT on then "touch" the BTR5 profile entry so it disconnects - and be ready on the new source device to start the BT connection.
> 
> It's the BT device switching dance, we all do it
> 
> ...



An ability within the menu or app to switch device would be useful.

I use a bluetooth transmitter with tv, which I keep in the cable bay, behind the tv.


----------



## onoff

I would advocate MQA support if possible.


----------



## Arghavan

I got my Fiio LT-TC1 cable from penon audio and it works great:
https://penonaudio.com/fiio-lt-tc1.html


----------



## sebek

Arghavan said:


> I got my Fiio LT-TC1 cable from penon audio and it works great:
> https://penonaudio.com/fiio-lt-tc1.html


I'm waiting for him from Ali, he should arrive this week. What difference do you notice between wired and bluetooth?


----------



## FiiO

Sunstealer said:


> @FiiO instead of this low hanging fruit regarding menu mode and settings etc. Would you mind awfully explaining the long standing lack of firmware updates via Mac? Please stop avoiding this question.


Dear user,

The chip supplier only provide the tool for updating the firmware in Windows computer to us. But here is some experience of updating the firmware in MAC from other user. You could check whether it could help: http://www.fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=44483&extra=page=1

Or borrow a Windows computer for help. 

Best regards


----------



## Arghavan

sebek said:


> I'm waiting for him from Ali, he should arrive this week. What difference do you notice between wired and bluetooth?


between LDAC and wired the difference is not huge. I can't A/B test and it might be in my head but on my Campfire Solaris I think the highs are bit more defined in wired mode when I'm playing MQA files.


----------



## onoff

Fiio, try to answer us if it would be possible, with some later fw, support for MQA.


----------



## sebek

I haven't got the USB-C cable and balanced cable yet so I'm using my BTR5 in the simplest way possible, Bluetooth - LDAC 990 - and unbalanced output.

The battery life is already very low, around 5-6 hours. Far away from the 9 hours I was reading.

Is this normal or is there something wrong? Could I try recalibrating the battery by letting it fully discharge and then charging it for 7-8 hours?


----------



## Ichos

Unfortunately it is way lower than advertised.


----------



## sarkar1990

sebek said:


> I haven't got the USB-C cable and balanced cable yet so I'm using my BTR5 in the simplest way possible, Bluetooth - LDAC 990 - and unbalanced output.
> 
> The battery life is already very low, around 5-6 hours. Far away from the 9 hours I was reading.
> 
> Is this normal or is there something wrong? Could I try recalibrating the battery by letting it fully discharge and then charging it for 7-8 hours?


Battery life with LDAC is about 6 hours for me too.

Their advertised 9 hours battery life is using AAC codec and 3.5mm output.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> Can't you exit the menu by holding the power button for about 2s?
> 
> Best regards


Another poster described how to do it.  I didn't realize you could do that without shutting the device off.   I have since learned it.   Great product.

Here is some input for your next product.   Let's call it the BTR7.   Support Tidal Connect and MQA.  Add a higher end DAC.   You don't need to turn it into a DAP.   Leave all of the storage options out of the product.   Turn it into a very high quality streamer with a small footprint and keep it below $400.  That product would dominate the market.


----------



## FiiO

onoff said:


> Fiio, try to answer us if it would be possible, with some later fw, support for MQA.


Dear user,

The BTR5 could not add the support for MQA via firmware update.

Best regards


----------



## sebek

@FiiO how long could the battery life of the BTR5 last by recharging it even more than once a day due to the low autonomy?

When the battery dies will it be replaceable?


----------



## FiiO

sebek said:


> @FiiO how long could the battery life of the BTR5 last by recharging it even more than once a day due to the low autonomy?
> 
> When the battery dies will it be replaceable?


Dear user,

Its battery life is about 300 hours in idle time.







Best regards


----------



## somy1982

@FiiO, can this be used as external DAC for iPhone/iPad via lightening to usb-c cable? Thanks


----------



## FiiO

somy1982 said:


> @FiiO, can this be used as external DAC for iPhone/iPad via lightening to usb-c cable? Thanks


Dear user,

I failed to find the lightning to usb c cable in Apple website. If you mean a third party cable, we could not confirm the compatibility.

But we tested via the CCK adapter+type c cable for BTR5 and iPhone X. It could work fine.

Best regards


----------



## fsi22

My btr5 just died. not switching on. How do I hard reset the device?


----------



## FiiO

fsi22 said:


> My btr5 just died. not switching on. How do I hard reset the device?


Dear user,

Sorry to hear about that.

Please try to charge the player using the computer for about 30mins, then hold the power button for 30s to force a restart. 

If the issue still remains, 
please discharged the product (1 night to be sure) and to check several times it is fully empty.
Re-load again the battery,
And after (at least one hour to be sure), switch on again the product.


Best regards


----------



## fsi22

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> Sorry to hear about that.
> 
> ...



Thank you, it didn't restart. I've taken it back to shop for warranty claim.


----------



## FiiO

fsi22 said:


> Thank you, it didn't restart. I've taken it back to shop for warranty claim.


Ok, thanks for the feedback. Sorry for bringing inconvenience to you.

Best regards


----------



## talponne

talponne said:


>





Lokiiami said:


> Amazing !



@FiiO 
Can this be done on your BT devices?
Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

talponne said:


> @FiiO
> Can this be done on your BT devices?
> Thanks!


Dear user,

Because of hardware limitation, this feature could not be added for BTR5. But we will assess this feature in our later product.

Best regards


----------



## talponne

FiiO said:


> Dear user,
> 
> Because of hardware limitation, this feature could not be added for BTR5. But we will assess this feature in our later product.
> 
> Best regards



Curious thing is than when I connect the BTR1k trough USB to the PS4 it recognize it as an USB mic.
Same thing when I'm on my Mac Mini or iMac.
But I can't seem to be able to use it...
Is this the hardware limitation?


----------



## sebek

yesterday i got the fiio lt-tc1 cable and i could listen to the btr5 in wired mode.

useless, there is a noticeable difference with bluetooth in careful listening, the sound improves exponentially. from good / nice to wow.

much more precise bass, greater clarity, emerging details, soundstage. a decisive improvement from all points of view.

I am expecting the balanced cable to arrive to finally be able to test it to its full potential, and I expect further growth in terms of sound quality.


----------



## sebek

@FiiO are there any contraindications in listening to the wired BTR5 always with the charge ON?


----------



## LoryWiv

sebek said:


> @FiiO are there any contraindications in listening to the wired BTR5 always with the charge ON?


I have not encountered any issues using my BTR5 in this way.


----------



## vmiguel

sebek said:


> @FiiO are there any contraindications in listening to the wired BTR5 always with the charge ON?


Mine get's quite hot when playing DSD via USB while charging. Other than that, no issues also.


----------



## IEMmasterRace

Hooga said:


> You can also use it as USB 2.0 but every time you switch from playing (e.g.) a 44.1K file to a 96K file on the source, the BTR5 won't switch for you and distort big time.
> The workaround is disconnect and reconnect the USB cable. That will properly reset BTR5's internal DAC.
> 
> 
> ...



If i have hiby r3 is it worth to upgrade to btr5 or just keep the hiby r3? sound quality wise


----------



## jsmiller58

IEMmasterRace said:


> If i have hiby r3 is it worth to upgrade to btr5 or just keep the hiby r3? sound quality wise


I have the R6 Pro and I personally think that the sound out of both are great.  Get the BTR5 for its Bluetooth, not to use as a dongle DAC/Amp.  The BTR5 is quite convenient if you want to minimize the bother with wires while still using wired IEMs.


----------



## Jayden16

IEMmasterRace said:


> If i have hiby r3 is it worth to upgrade to btr5 or just keep the hiby r3? sound quality wise


It really comes down to the size between the two. I used to own the Hiby R3 and loved that little thing, and it already has Bluetooth receiver mode. If you need something smaller, it might be worth it but otherwise I’d stick to the R3 if I were you.


----------



## sebek (Oct 31, 2020)

@FiiO what exactly is the Dac Clock Divider? Why is 1/4 in BT mode and 1 in USB Dac mode recommended?

EDIT: It doesn't matter, I found the answer.


----------



## imeem (Nov 3, 2020)

i have the Fiio E17, how does the sound quality compare to the BTR5 and the BTR3K?

in a bluetooth dac/amp, i'm looking for something that sounds clearer and have better soundstage than my E17. My E17 also picks up phone interference if its too close.


----------



## onyxus (Nov 4, 2020)

I’ve tried to read through all 150 pages, but after flipping for what seemed hours, I couldn’t find a definitive answer to my question, so I’ll try to ask here. Thank you for those helping me out.

I just got my BTR5 and recently upgraded my iPhone 7 to the new iPhone 12. It’s day and night, as far as performance goes for me, since my i7 was going out (battery/sluggish). I have an NX4, which I love, but the cable that I was using (Meenova Lightning-to-microUSB) wasn't detecting the NX4 all the time. It’s odd, it would work at times and other times it wouldn’t. So I caved and got the Apple CCK. It works now, but it’s just so cumbersome.

Now that I have my BTR5, I tried to see if it would work as a DAC using the Lighting-to-USB C that came with the i12. Sadly it didn’t. It works with the CCK, but my question is this, does anybody know if there is any other cable that is Lightning-to-USB C that works on i12 and BTR5? I want to try the Meenova one, but will have to wait a few weeks to order it. Thanks for your help!

Edit: One more question. Is the Fiio app necessary to use the BTR5? I saw that there are a few redundant settings between the app and the BTR5.


----------



## Ichos

I can answer the second part.
No the app is not necessarily but it will make the experience better as it offers a lot of tweaking.
But after you make your changes through the app they are permanently stored into the BTR 5 rom so you don't need to use it again.


----------



## onyxus

Ichos said:


> I can answer the second part.
> No the app is not necessarily but it will make the experience better as it offers a lot of tweaking.
> But after you make your changes through the app they are permanently stored into the BTR 5 rom so you don't need to use it again.


Thank you so much the reply. I’ll have to look at what those more in depth features do because, even though I know a little about impedance and sensitivity, I don’t know enough about how everything works on that app to mess with it. I’ll have to do more research. Thanks! Though (with my untrained ears) it still sounds amazing wired with the stock settings!


----------



## sebek

If you don't care about the player because you already use another one, you can only download the FiiO Control app.


----------



## onyxus (Nov 4, 2020)

sebek said:


> If you don't care about the player because you already use another one, you can only download the FiiO Control app.


Oh, I’m not talking about the music app. Sorry for the confusion. I do have the Control App, but I was just wondering if it was required. I’ll use it and try to learn what I can do with it. I use the KaiserTone app as my main music app for my iPhone. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## sebek

onyxus said:


> Oh, I’m not talking about the music app. Sorry for the confusion. I do have the Control App, but I was just wondering if it was required. I’ll use it and try to learn what I can do with it. I use the KaiserTone app and my main music app for my iPhone. Thanks for the suggestion!


Ah sorry


----------



## carapau

onyxus said:


> Now that I have my BTR5, I tried to see if it would work as a DAC using the Lighting-to-USB C that came with the i12. Sadly it didn’t. It works with the CCK, but my question is this, does anybody know if there is any other cable that is Lightning-to-USB C that works on i12 and BTR5? I want to try the Meenova one, but will have to wait a few weeks to order it. Thanks for your help!



I tried two different cables . No success .


----------



## onyxus

carapau said:


> I tried two different cables . No success .


Which ones did you try? Just to make sure I don’t buy those.


----------



## carapau

Baseus PD 20W USB Type C Cable For iPhone  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001489506494.html

AmazonBasics Nylon Braided USB-C to Lightning Cable, MFi Certified Apple Charger for iPhone
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=B07XS4XN8S


----------



## onyxus

carapau said:


> Baseus PD 20W USB Type C Cable For iPhone
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001489506494.html
> 
> AmazonBasics Nylon Braided USB-C to Lightning Cable, MFi Certified Apple Charger for iPhone
> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=B07XS4XN8S


Yes, it’s unfortunate, but I think the only option could be the Apple CCK. Like I mentioned before, not even the Lightning-to-USB C that came with the new i12 worked. I was thinking of trying to cable: 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33009...tedetail&spm=2114.12057483.0.0.127f5ceeS4Vm6D


----------



## doug01n

imeem said:


> i have the Fiio E17, how does the sound quality compare to the BTR5 and the BTR3K?
> 
> in a bluetooth dac/amp, i'm looking for something that sounds clearer and have better soundstage than my E17. My E17 also picks up phone interference if its too close.



I also have the E17, and interested on how does it compares.


----------



## lucasd

Control app on iphone can change the volume/ skip function.
It is very useful in general, but in app we have chinese characters for that option 
If I did not await for it, I would not have guessed...


----------



## FiiO

lucasd said:


> Control app on iphone can change the volume/ skip function.
> It is very useful in general, but in app we have chinese characters for that option
> If I did not await for it, I would not have guessed...


Dear user,

Thanks for reporting the problem. We have reported to the engineer for fixing about that in later update. 

Sorry for bringing inconvenience.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

The Android version FiiO Control app has been updated to V2.2.

If your FiiO Control app could not recognize the Bluetooth Amplifier, please try to update it.

Android version 2.2 download link: Click to download

You could also search “FiiO Control” in any application market to download it.


----------



## MalinYamato

I am hoping for an upgraded version of BTR5.... any rumors so far?


----------



## ballog

MalinYamato said:


> I am hoping for an upgraded version of BTR5.... any rumors so far?


Doesn't seem likely. Fiio probably only update slow moving (Q5s??) or bug-ridden models. The BTR5 is very much still the cash cow.


----------



## FiiO

MalinYamato said:


> I am hoping for an upgraded version of BTR5.... any rumors so far?


Dear friend,

If you would like a product which could support up to DSD256, 384kHz decoding, as well as Bluetooth amplifer support, the BTR5 could be the best choice in our products currently.   

Best regards


----------



## fsi22 (Nov 16, 2020)

What is wire function?


----------



## mattw30

Any idea when these will be back in stock can't find one here in the UK


----------



## FiiO

fsi22 said:


> What is wire function?


Dear friend,

*Wire function*: it is for settings of headphone with in-line remote function and it can be set to whether to be working or not. 

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

mattw30 said:


> Any idea when these will be back in stock can't find one here in the UK


Dear friend,

Thanks for the interest.

We could not tell when the next batch will be in stock again. You could ask the local seller to update you when the product is available again.

Best regards


----------



## sebek

@FiiO why don't you also make a usb c dongle like Lotoo Paw S1? Battery-free, with balanced and unbalanced output, an equalizer with many presets and good driving power. And you put it at a similar price to the BTR5.

BTR5 however is fantastic, if Bluetooth already offers very good quality, connected directly to the smartphone and using the balanced output becomes quite incredible in relation to the price.


----------



## NikolasDi (Nov 20, 2020)

Hello, I have been using the btr5 for almost a year now and have encountered a serious problem on playback through USB both with a linux pc and an android phone. 
At times the next song in a list plays back significantly faster or slower. 
This only happens when I use the btr5 connected through usb. 
I found posts by few others claiming the same and it appears to be a problem when one song has one sample rate and then the next one another. 
It does not seem to appear on all players. 
On android it happens on UAPP but not on Newtron.
On Linux pc it happens with deadbeef player. 
Does anyone know anything about this? 
@FiiO?


----------



## mattw30

Is there a problem with manufacture as no one has these for sale in the uk and have no idea if/ when these will be back in stock


----------



## Tano (Nov 22, 2020)

Hi, Im having some issues with my BTR5, always used it wireless but now I tried it via usb C with my Xiaomi lite but it only plays at 48 khz even when Im playin 24bit/96kh albums. Is there any fix to this? Im using Fiio player.

PD Its working now but with Pi player. Its weird than the official Fiio player can't do this.


----------



## sarkar1990

Tano said:


> Hi, Im having some issues with my BTR5, always used it wireless but now I tried it via usb C with my Xiaomi lite but it only plays at 48 khz even when Im playin 24bit/96kh albums. Is there any fix to this? Im using Fiio player.
> 
> PD Its working now but with Pi player. Its weird than the official Fiio player can't do this.


Have you updated the btr5??

Updating fixed this issue for me.


----------



## Tano

sarkar1990 said:


> Have you updated the btr5??
> 
> Updating fixed this issue for me.


I did, a few months ago. Will do it tonight again to see if it fixes the issue. Thank you!


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Tano said:


> Hi, Im having some issues with my BTR5, always used it wireless but now I tried it via usb C with my Xiaomi lite but it only plays at 48 khz even when Im playin 24bit/96kh albums. Is there any fix to this? Im using Fiio player.
> 
> PD Its working now but with Pi player. Its weird than the official Fiio player can't do this.


You have to use USB Audio Player Pro or similar audio player to fully enjoy your music out of the usb.
Most other player apps are routing through the android music layer, which samples all down (or up) to 48kHz. 

Never tried the Fiio player, though.


----------



## Tano

Chris Kaoss said:


> You have to use USB Audio Player Pro or similar audio player to fully enjoy your music out of the usb.
> Most other player apps are routing through the android music layer, which samples all down (or up) to 48kHz.
> 
> Never tried the Fiio player, though.


Yeah, it seems the problem was the player. It's fine now with an app called Pi Music player. Thanks for your reply!


----------



## FiiO

Tano said:


> Hi, Im having some issues with my BTR5, always used it wireless but now I tried it via usb C with my Xiaomi lite but it only plays at 48 khz even when Im playin 24bit/96kh albums. Is there any fix to this? Im using Fiio player.
> 
> PD Its working now but with Pi player. Its weird than the official Fiio player can't do this.


Dear friend,

Please check whether the usb output option from setting of FiiO Music app is turned off? Please try to turn it on to check again.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

NikolasDi said:


> Hello, I have been using the btr5 for almost a year now and have encountered a serious problem on playback through USB both with a linux pc and an android phone.
> At times the next song in a list plays back significantly faster or slower.
> This only happens when I use the btr5 connected through usb.
> I found posts by few others claiming the same and it appears to be a problem when one song has one sample rate and then the next one another.
> ...


Dear friend,

Do you mean that the problem happen in the certain app? You could try to reset the BTR5 by holding the power button for 15s and check again?

Best regards


----------



## hanf

Hello guys, 

I have been using BTR5 as my main audio setup for about 1 months and very happy with its performance. However, does anyone have connection problem after updating firmware to 2.0? My stable connection range has been reduced (only about 3 meters) and i experience cutout if i put the BTR5 in one of pants pocket and my smartphone in another one.


----------



## FiiO

hanf said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have been using BTR5 as my main audio setup for about 1 months and very happy with its performance. However, does anyone have connection problem after updating firmware to 2.0? My stable connection range has been reduced (only about 3 meters) and i experience cutout if i put the BTR5 in one of pants pocket and my smartphone in another one.


Dear friend,

Please try to clear the pairing record by holding the volume+ & - button at the same time for about 5s. Then reconnect again for check?

Best regards


----------



## Tano

Hi, already posted this on the Fiio BTA30 thread but I'm going to post it here aswell because I think it's a Fiio Btr5 issue too. 
I was using the BTA30 paired with my BTR5 with no problem, but tonight it just stopped working. It's connected and the white light on the BTA30 is on and the BTR5 shows it's connected and shows LDAC, but there is no sound. I don't think it's the BTA30 problem because it's working fine with other bluetooth headphones I have. Also the BTR5 it's working fine with my mobile so I guess they ran into a compabitity problem of some sort...too bad because I was using the BTA30 only with the BTR5. I hope theres a fix for this.


----------



## Tano

Im am thinking to make a Factory reset of both devices and try to pair them again, i know how to it on the BTA30 but not on the Btr5, can anyone help me please?


----------



## qboogie

I have been considering picking the BTR5 for use with my Audioengine A5 powered speakers, via 3.5mm. I know they're for headphones and IEMs, but has anyone used them with speakers?

I was browsing bluetooth speakers to replace the Bose soundlink. and thought, why not just get a good bluetooth receiver and use the speakers I already have. This device is less expensive than the Audioengine B1 receiver and has more utility as a portable.


----------



## johnston21 (Nov 28, 2020)

qboogie said:


> ... use with my Audioengine A5 powered speakers, via 3.5mm.


I plan to use the new Fiio BTA30 via RCA (no 3.5mm out) with my A2s and Fostex PMO 4s (replacing Chromecast Audio as an input source).

I’m looking at the BTR5 for it’s aptx-LL abilities, currently using the Shure BT2


----------



## Tano

Tano said:


> Hi, already posted this on the Fiio BTA30 thread but I'm going to post it here aswell because I think it's a Fiio Btr5 issue too.
> I was using the BTA30 paired with my BTR5 with no problem, but tonight it just stopped working. It's connected and the white light on the BTA30 is on and the BTR5 shows it's connected and shows LDAC, but there is no sound. I don't think it's the BTA30 problem because it's working fine with other bluetooth headphones I have. Also the BTR5 it's working fine with my mobile so I guess they ran into a compabitity problem of some sort...too bad because I was using the BTA30 only with the BTR5. I hope theres a fix for this.


Just fixed this. I deleted the Fiio control app in my mobile and cleared the pairing in the Btr5 and it's working now.


----------



## hanf

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Please try to clear the pairing record by holding the volume+ & - button at the same time for about 5s. Then reconnect again for check?
> 
> Best regards


I have been applying your solution for 2 days and will observe further for few next days. So far it has been much better.


----------



## FiiO (Nov 29, 2020)

Tano said:


> Just fixed this. I deleted the Fiio control app in my mobile and cleared the pairing in the Btr5 and it's working now.


Dear friend,

Ok, thanks for the kind feedback.

Best regards


----------



## jared basshead

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Ok, thanks for the kind feedback.
> 
> Best regards



@FiiO

I have been waiting to buy this from Fiio India site but i don't understand why it's been out of stock since July?? What happened to production and restocking? 

Every US site has it, i can try shipping overseas but lately the custom duty has been huge. I literally paid 100USD for 185USD product and then so on during this pandemic. 
Please provide ETA. 

Thanks


----------



## FiiO

jared basshead said:


> @FiiO
> 
> I have been waiting to buy this from Fiio India site but i don't understand why it's been out of stock since July?? What happened to production and restocking?
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Thanks for your interest. The BTR5 will be available again in India at this month. 

Best regards


----------



## jared basshead

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Thanks for your interest. The BTR5 will be available again in India at this month.
> 
> Best regards


Omg. This is great news. Thanks much. 
Hopefully it doesn't go out of stock by the time i get notified of restock. 
Bless you.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Howdy everyone! I made an in-depth written review about BTR5, and if you're still on the fence about ordering one or not, I hope my written review will be as much of help to you as my video review has been!  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/12/best-thus-far-fiio-btr5-bluetooth-receiver-review.html


----------



## Octavius

I'm very surprised by this device. I've bought BTR5 as a temporary solution till my player will be repaired. 
Right now the player is working, but still the first audition option is BTR5. 
If to compare with ibasso dx160, then ibasso sound more refined and more layered, but sometimes the sound it's boring. BTR5 sounds more funny, maybe the sound is not so clear as in ibasso, but the emphasize on lows and highs are more pleasant for me. 
I listen BTR5 with Moondrop Blessing 2 and i could say that it'a good pairing.


----------



## Arghavan

Octavius said:


> I'm very surprised by this device. I've bought BTR5 as a temporary solution till my player will be repaired.
> Right now the player is working, but still the first audition option is BTR5.
> If to compare with ibasso dx160, then ibasso sound more refined and more layered, but sometimes the sound it's boring. BTR5 sounds more funny, maybe the sound is not so clear as in ibasso, but the emphasize on lows and highs are more pleasant for me.
> I listen BTR5 with Moondrop Blessing 2 and i could say that it'a good pairing.


Yeah I completely replaced my iBasso DX157 with BTR5 and I can confirm it sounds at least just as good with my Campfire Solaris through balanced output.
I rarely find myself plugging it to JDS EL II Stack. I just wish the battery life was better and the buttons had better defined clicks.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

@FiiO - trying to buy one of these in the UK and just none available anywhere. Is there likely to be more stock coming to the UK soon please?


----------



## PTDennis

@FiiO any chance we will be able to update the BTR5 on a Mac anytime soon? This is very important to many users. I do not have access to a Windows computer.


----------



## digititus

PTDennis said:


> @FiiO any chance we will be able to update the BTR5 on a Mac anytime soon? This is very important to many users. I do not have access to a Windows computer.


You can still do it on a Mac using dfu-util.


----------



## PTDennis

digititus said:


> You can still do it on a Mac using dfu-util.


Is there a tutorial? I have seen one but it was not very clear about how to update specifically the BTR5. Thanks in advance


----------



## digititus (Dec 13, 2020)

PTDennis said:


> Is there a tutorial? I have seen one but it was not very clear about how to update specifically the BTR5. Thanks in advance


You can follow the Fiio upgrade tutorial which explains how to set the BTR5 into DFU mode. Then you can search headfi which has a number of tutorials of how to use dfu-util on OS X or linux boxes. Once your device is is DFU mode, the process is the same for all devices.

You can try this guide


----------



## FiiO

WhiteHartMart said:


> @FiiO - trying to buy one of these in the UK and just none available anywhere. Is there likely to be more stock coming to the UK soon please?


Dear friend,

You could try to contact the seller in UK(https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy) about that. We have sent a small batch of BTR5 to the seller in UK. So we are not sure whether the BTR5 has been sold out in UK now.

Best regards


----------



## WhiteHartMart

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> You could try to contact the seller in UK(https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy) about that. We have sent a small batch of BTR5 to the seller in UK. So we are not sure whether the BTR5 has been sold out in UK now.
> 
> Best regards



Thanks - yea - one of those shows as out of stock and the other 2 don't even have the product listed on their site. I'm guessing there is just no chance to buy one now in the UK. Thanks anyway.


----------



## BenKatz (Dec 16, 2020)

Not in line with what the conversation is on about at the moment, but I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about the device:

It's an excellent bt dac/amp, best on the market, there's no surprise there. Besides excellent sound quality for its category, the fact that it also accepts cables with in-line mics is fantastic especially since if the in line remote has volume control, it will also work for volume/track skipping.

Now about the bad parts, which aren't really bad parts, but features which make little sense and/or are not that great:

a) balanced output. Now, unless you are using a very power hungry IEM/headphone, there's no point in using it. And I'm saying it after thuroughly using both outputs. Yeah, the power increase is massive, 240mw vs 80mw i believe, but it comes with some disadvantages: battery life goes down from 8-9 hours to about 6:30 ; balanced outputs for headphones by nature introduce a higher noise floor, and also a bit more distortion (before jumping on this claim as untrue, please read this blog article by one of the best and most legendary dac/amp manufacturer on the market: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better ) ; there no 2.5mm cable with in-line mic for convenience ; extra cost to buy balanced cable ; if you're left with 0 battery on the btr5, you can't plug the 2.5mm jack in your smartphone.

b) google assistant : the "tap multifunction button twice to activate assistant" is very iffy. Yes, if yoy connect a headphone with in line mic you can use its button also, but most of the times its no gonna activate since you have to press at the right speed - fiio needs to adds an option to map the assistant to a long press.

As for the equipment I'm using: Xperia 1 ii (LDAC), Campfire Audio Polaris v2 IEMs - and I've got 3 cables at this point: the stock one, 3.5mm silver plated copper, and 2 other campfire audio cables i bought: pure copper with in line mic and volume control, pure silver balanced 2.5mm. And I have to say, overall the pure copper with in line is the best - on par with straight 3.5mm silver plated copper one. Pure silver one was a disappointment and I'm selling it (i also tested fiios silver 2.5mm one, same result), but the problem is not with the cable itself, rather the choice to use the balanced output, for the aforementioned reasons : more power but for nothing since the max I can take before hurting my brain is vol 35 on the 3.5mm, on 2.5 i can't go beyond 25-26, drastically decreased battery life, and audible noisier noise floor - basically AVOID BALANCED OUTPUTS , they only make sense if u have very very hard to drive headphones, but actually come at the cost of sound quality and battery.

And as a last thing, I actually do believe cables make a difference and have tested them in my system. I used to have some budget Supra cables for my speakers, now I upgraded to some higher end Van den Hul ones and the difference is quite noticeable in clarity and bass tightness - same for the interconnects from the dac streamer and amp.

Its just that in my comparison, the aforementioned cables on the BTR5, used with my polaris v2 but also the sony xba-n1, campfire atlas and fiio fh7, i could not for the life of me tell ANY difference in sound signature. So by far the best option, thanks for BTR5's ability to accept it, is a cable with in line remote and mic, since its much much more convenient.


----------



## megabigeye

BenKatz said:


> Not in line with what the conversation is on about at the moment, but I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about the device:
> 
> It's an excellent bt dac/amp, best on the market, there's no surprise there. Besides excellent sound quality for its category, the fact that it also accepts cables with in-line mics is fantastic especially since if the in line remote has volume control, it will also work for volume/track skipping.
> 
> ...


Using balanced, can you actually hear the noise floor with your IEMs?  To me, the balanced output sounds marginally better than single-ended, though I haven't done side-by-side in a while (in fact, I hardly use the BTR5 at all currently).  I'll have to revisit that.

The fact that the balanced output sounds better to me is actually my biggest gripe with the BTR5.  There's no inherent technical reason that it should, which means that the 3.5 was hampered in order to make balanced sound better.  In order to get the most sound-wise out of the BTR5 I need to have a cables I don't want/like on, and take a sizable hit on the battery life, which is already not great.  Not to mention that not all of my headphones are compatible with balanced (DT 1990, original qJAYS).

You've hit on some of my bigger complaints with this device.

I'll do some more comparisons between 2.5 and 3.5, though I don't know how successful I'll be since my furnace makes so much freaking noise can hear it through my IEMs.


----------



## BenKatz

megabigeye said:


> Using balanced, can you actually hear the noise floor with your IEMs?  To me, the balanced output sounds marginally better than single-ended, though I haven't done side-by-side in a while (in fact, I hardly use the BTR5 at all currently).  I'll have to revisit that.
> 
> The fact that the balanced output sounds better to me is actually my biggest gripe with the BTR5.  There's no inherent technical reason that it should, which means that the 3.5 was hampered in order to make balanced sound better.  In order to get the most sound-wise out of the BTR5 I need to have a cables I don't want/like on, and take a sizable hit on the battery life, which is already not great.  Not to mention that not all of my headphones are compatible with balanced (DT 1990, original qJAYS).
> 
> ...



Just to clarify - I'm saying the balanced output sounds WORSE than the single ended. And frankly, I had the same impression years ago when I had the over-ear Z1R Sonys and their ZH1ES (and tested balanced) for a month as a loaner. I found the Benchmark blog article a few months black and I was surprised that their technical explanation as to why balanced sounds worse is pretty much in-line with what I noticed - notably higher distortion at higher volumes. I actually had the pleasure of testing out the Benchmark dac/amp with a set of Sennheiser (forgot the model, open-back) at the local hi-fi shop and it sounded amazing -but then again, I didn't test it with headphones i'm familiar with nor did I do an A/B, but reviews online seem to place Benchmark as the top dog in the DAC department at least. And they DO NOT offer balanced output after careful analysis and concluding that it, indeed, sounds worse (again, we're talking sound quality here, not "quantity" - volume output).

Also, I forgot to mention, another cool reason to use a cable with in-line mic with the BTR5 (since the whole point of this product is portability) is that the built-in mic in the BTR5 SUCKS BIG TIME. It sounds horribly muffled against the mic on my Campfire Audio Polaris V2 (Copper Super Litz cable with in-line mic bought separately), Sony XBA-N1AP and the Sony MDR-1A.


----------



## megabigeye

BenKatz said:


> Just to clarify - I'm saying the balanced output sounds WORSE than the single ended. And frankly, I had the same impression years ago when I had the over-ear Z1R Sonys and their ZH1ES (and tested balanced) for a month as a loaner. I found the Benchmark blog article a few months black and I was surprised that their technical explanation as to why balanced sounds worse is pretty much in-line with what I noticed - notably higher distortion at higher volumes. I actually had the pleasure of testing out the Benchmark dac/amp with a set of Sennheiser (forgot the model, open-back) at the local hi-fi shop and it sounded amazing -but then again, I didn't test it with headphones i'm familiar with nor did I do an A/B, but reviews online seem to place Benchmark as the top dog in the DAC department at least. And they DO NOT offer balanced output after careful analysis and concluding that it, indeed, sounds worse (again, we're talking sound quality here, not "quantity" - volume output).
> 
> Also, I forgot to mention, another cool reason to use a cable with in-line mic with the BTR5 (since the whole point of this product is portability) is that the built-in mic in the BTR5 SUCKS BIG TIME. It sounds horribly muffled against the mic on my Campfire Audio Polaris V2 (Copper Super Litz cable with in-line mic bought separately), Sony XBA-N1AP and the Sony MDR-1A.


Interesting. Yeah, I got from your original post that you meant balanced sounds worse.  My experience with the BTR5 has been the opposite.  Though, to be honest, it took me a long time to come to that conclusion and I didn't do much swapping between the two after that.  Do you listen very loud?
My only 'phones with a balanced cable are my Westones, but I've got the SE cable on right now and I'm too lazy/impatient to try to switch right now.  Last thing I want to do is break the MMCX connector for the sake of some silly comparison!

Nobody ever complained to me about the BTR5's mic, but for me the sound faded out almost completely while on a call.  It sounded like the person I was talking to had me on speaker and was walking away from their phone.  Needless to say, that was the last time I used the BTR5 for phone calls.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't love the BTR5!  It sounds good, but my experience with this thing has mostly just left me mildly irritated.

I've seen that Benchmark article before.  I don't doubt that their DACs (and headphone amps, I think) are some of the best out there, but I take articles like that to be mostly marketing material.  Maybe technically true, but grain of salt, and all that.  My (limited, I grant) understanding is that balanced and single-ended might measure inherently differently, but those differences should be below audibility so long as neither is somehow compromised.


----------



## LoryWiv

BenKatz said:


> Not in line with what the conversation is on about at the moment, but I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about the device:
> 
> It's an excellent bt dac/amp, best on the market, there's no surprise there. Besides excellent sound quality for its category, the fact that it also accepts cables with in-line mics is fantastic especially since if the in line remote has volume control, it will also work for volume/track skipping.
> 
> ...


Thank you @BenKatz for these detailed and helpful comments. I enjoy my BTR5 quite a lot and agree with most of what you've said (for the life of me have not been able to get google assistant to activate) but would differ with the lack of benefit to balanced output. With my TRI I3 IEM's, which includes a planar driver, the additional power of balanced definitely improves sound quality and the IEM remains hiss-free. I suspect it depends each each user's IEM pairings and hiss sensitivity, or perhaps it's my old dude touch of tinnitus which obscures the hiss. 

I'm not a big believer in balanced overall (went form a balanced SS to unbalanced OTL amp in my desktop rig, happily) but wouldn't be so quick to write off BTR5 balanced output for select use cases.


----------



## BenKatz

megabigeye said:


> Interesting. Yeah, I got from your original post that you meant balanced sounds worse.  My experience with the BTR5 has been the opposite.  Though, to be honest, it took me a long time to come to that conclusion and I didn't do much swapping between the two after that.  Do you listen very loud?
> My only 'phones with a balanced cable are my Westones, but I've got the SE cable on right now and I'm too lazy/impatient to try to switch right now.  Last thing I want to do is break the MMCX connector for the sake of some silly comparison!
> 
> Nobody ever complained to me about the BTR5's mic, but for me the sound faded out almost completely while on a call.  It sounded like the person I was talking to had me on speaker and was walking away from their phone.  Needless to say, that was the last time I used the BTR5 for phone calls.
> ...




Well tbh i actually do love the btr5, its an excellent device with a lot of functionality, some of it might be not so well thought out.

But as far as sq, we're talking legit Dragonfly Red (i have one) but with added bonus of LDAC  bt connectivity and call handling.

As for the benchmark article, i doubt its marketing. Think about it, any producer already has single ended outputs and can easily implement balanced. They are just explaining why balanced is pointless.


----------



## BenKatz

LoryWiv said:


> Thank you @BenKatz for these detailed and helpful comments. I enjoy my BTR5 quite a lot and agree with most of what you've said (for the life of me have not been able to get google assistant to activate) but would differ with the lack of benefit to balanced output. With my TRI I3 IEM's, which includes a planar driver, the additional power of balanced definitely improves sound quality and the IEM remains hiss-free. I suspect it depends each each user's IEM pairings and hiss sensitivity, or perhaps it's my old dude touch of tinnitus which obscures the hiss.
> 
> I'm not a big believer in balanced overall (went form a balanced SS to unbalanced OTL amp in my desktop rig, happily) but wouldn't be so quick to write off BTR5 balanced output for select use cases.



Indeed, but that makes sense. You see, planar drivers always need much more power in order to sound properly as compared to dynamic or balanced armature drivers. So in your case, it really is a case of headphones that require more power and thys the 240mw of the balanced is much more adequate than the 80mw of the single endes.

As for goolge assiatant, tbh if you set up the "ok google" voice match/recognition in the google assistant settings, it works flawlessly. Indeed, you don't always want to speak out loud "ok google" to activate it, but if you want, at least how im using it (cable with in line mic) it activates every time.


----------



## FiiO

BenKatz said:


> Not in line with what the conversation is on about at the moment, but I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about the device:
> 
> It's an excellent bt dac/amp, best on the market, there's no surprise there. Besides excellent sound quality for its category, the fact that it also accepts cables with in-line mics is fantastic especially since if the in line remote has volume control, it will also work for volume/track skipping.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Thanks for sharing your experience. We will also report your feedback to our engineer and product manager.

Best regards


----------



## Deceneu808

Haven't used mine a few months since the cold got colder outside. Are there any updates available for the BTR5 ? My main problem with this unit is that I can't use EQ while in LDAC mode, only aptX


----------



## BenKatz

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience. We will also report your feedback to our engineer and product manager.
> 
> Best regards



Seeing you reply is a very good sign, I'm impressed that you are open to suggestion and are checking on user feedback. I've been using Fiio portable dacs for a very long time and you are still the top-dog in mobile bt dacs in my opinnion. you just need to refine your apps a bit better.

Just to mention my 2 main gripes with the BTR5:

no option to switch to "long press multifunction button" to activate goolge assistant
Occasional drops - compared to, for example the Sony WH1000XM4 (using LDAC best effort) there are MUCH more dropouts in the BTR5 - and I'm using it with an Xperia 1 mark 2 (LDAC).

As far as LDAC eq - I see many people complaining about it but they have to understand that LDAC uses a lot of resources, so I wouldn't bother working on that, but rather refine the main functionalities already present.

One last thing to mention is something that although I'm not using (since i'm using a MMCX cable with in-line mic), some will have an issue with - I recently bought the leather case for the BTR5, and I noticed that there is NO CUTOUT for the mic - so when you use the leather case, the mic is covered, which can be a problem for some.

And talking about mics - the quality is very inconsistent - i tested it a lot (before getting an in-line mic MMCX cable) and 7/10 times, the mic quality is VERY BAD and I need to close and recall until the other person can hear me fine. I don't know why this is. Check it out and test it a bit more, please.


----------



## BenKatz

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience. We will also report your feedback to our engineer and product manager.
> 
> Best regards


 

Oh and one last thing, this is a question, a curiosity of mine, and I would be VERY interested to hear your audio engineers opinon on this. 

I've noticed 0 differences in sound quality when using identical cables - one with in-line mic/remote, one without.

So I'm wondering, based on your research, is there any kind of sound differences, even if it's just in measurements and cannot be heard?

And if the differences are almost 0, why is it that you and basically all other manufactureres don't make high-end headphone cables (thicker wire, silver, etc) WITH in-line mics, and all of the high end cables are without?

thank you!


----------



## RyuzakiL26

Been contemplating to purchase this or the K3. Does the BTR5 have usb passthrough so that if the battery is already full it will no longer charge it and instead will rely on the USB-C as its power? 

I don't care too much with the Bluetooth thing though it will be a nice to have in case of emergency setup.

Also do FiiO products have a reliable audio jack as my now ancient E11 had a faulty one the first time I bought it - and I always had to push slightly the cable attached to the input jack for it to work.


----------



## hmscott (Dec 20, 2020)

You can disable the charging function from the onboard menu 

If you forget to re-enable charging and drain the battery to the bottom, you'll want to plug in the BTR5 for a couple of minutes before trying to boot it back up - it can appear "dead", but it's just got an empty battery and not enough "umph" in it to power on -- then change that option to charge the battery.

The option to disable charging only applies when the BTR5 is running.  When the BTR5 power runs out the OS exits - stops running - and the USB cable if still connected will charge it back up.  Don't forget to re-enable charging when you power it back on.

We've seen people panicking because their precious new BTR5 was "bricked", it's not, it's out of power.

You can also set the BTR5 to prefer USB or BT, so that when you unplug the USB the BTR5 will immediately connect to BT for a "seemless" transition from plugged in via USB to unplugged and paired with a BT headphone / TWS.  That's how I set up my BTR5's, very handy.

I've got a few BTR5's and a BTR3k, so I'm distributing my unplugging across all of them, so it will take "3x longer" to wear them out.  One BTR5 - the "Blue Sky" special edition still NIB, I should really unwrap that one and make sure it works.  So far no port failures.  I also use a variety of headphones / IEM's with 3.5mm/2.5mm so I'm further splitting up the unpluggings across those 2 ports.

The BTR3k is also a nice choice.  I use it when I don't want to mess with the BTR5 screen - when I can't look away to use the buttons and screen  to make changes.  The BTR5 is fine - I can find the volume up and down easily, until I accidentally push the mode button and the volume controls are now working as menu scrolling pointers,

I like the simplicity of operation of the BTR3k - and although it doesn't put out as much power I have used the BTR3k to drive 600 ohm headphones out it's 3.5mm port, the BTR5 sounds better for that though.

I also use a Hidizs S9, that has no controls on it and I control the volume via the phone / Windows, it also has good drive and is a good alternative when the FiiO BTR5 / BTR3k are out of stock, when making recommendations to others on what to try.  Hifigo always seems to have them available (they are in Chia) and expedited shipping usually gets here in 3-7 days.  S9 Review

On Amazon when they are in stock I try to purchase from  FiiO as a direct seller through Amazon - if listed - so I can get direct warranty, from Hifigo they handle the warranty.

So far no warranty claims for any FiiO hardware.


----------



## RyuzakiL26

hmscott said:


> You can disable the charging function from the onboard menu
> 
> If you forget to re-enable charging and drain the battery to the bottom, you'll want to plug in the BTR5 for a couple of minutes before trying to boot it back up - it can appear "dead", but it's just got an empty battery and not enough "umph" in it to power on -- then change that option to charge the battery
> 
> ...



Thanks for this, then to clarify the moment I've attached the BTR5 to my PC via USB-C port, I can disable charging and it will not rely on the USB-C as its power or it will use the battery all through-out? If it's the latter, I think I will purchase the FiiO K3 instead as it can be attached to the phone (K30 Pro Zoom) and PC as well - minus the headache of micro-managing the battery unlike the BTR5. What worries me is the audio ports, as it seems FiiO has a history of forgetting to put some quality on those XD. I already have the Deoxit ready though I think no amount of cleaning will fix a broken jack from the get go 😅


----------



## hmscott (Dec 20, 2020)

RyuzakiL26 said:


> Thanks for this, then to clarify the moment I've attached the BTR5 to my PC via USB-C port, I can disable charging and it will not rely on the USB-C as its power or it will use the battery all through-out? If it's the latter, I think I will purchase the FiiO K3 instead as it can be attached to the phone (K30 Pro Zoom) and PC as well - minus the headache of micro-managing the battery unlike the BTR5. What worries me is the audio ports, as it seems FiiO has a history of forgetting to put some quality on those XD. I already have the Deoxit ready though I think no amount of cleaning will fix a broken jack from the get go 😅


Have you seen anyone report a BTR5 headphone jack as faulty?  I haven't had a problem myself, and I don't recall anyone posting that as a problem.  I think it would take some heavy abuse to damage one of those internal ports.  More likely abusive force would break the headphone connector first.

I have heard of people complaining about sitting on their devices (not FiiO) and breaking 2.5mm headphone plugs and insisting that everyone move to 4.4mm plugs - or the new 3.5mm balanced plugs.  I've never had any headphone plug break.  But, then I don't abuse my equipment either by putting it in my pocket and sitting on it.

Well, it's not that burdensome to disable the battery charging and leave it that way, then turn off the BTR5 and plug in the charging cable - same difference.

The battery will wear out if kept fully charged too, it's not just discharging and recharging that wears out a battery, simply holding a charge, especially at 100% for long periods is also detrimental to the life of the battery.

The new Apple M1 Macbook Pro has an aggressive battery conditioning as I've never seen before, it actually cuts out charging and coasts on battery the whole time down to what I am guessing must be 10%-15% as I chickened out at 17% and disabled "Optimized Charging" and the Macbook Pro M1 immediately started charging.  I don't want the battery that low and then need to take it out.

That FiiO K3 looks cool too. 

I've got a FiiO M15, heavy and although I love the sound I will take the BTR5 out more often than the M15, especially for walks and short car trips.  For long trip's I'd carry both.

Maybe try both?  The BTR5 / BTR3k are pretty inexpensive and I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy them for some uses.


----------



## hmscott (Dec 20, 2020)

@RyuzakiL26 - btw, does your new phone allow charging a connected device - like the BTR5?  Or is it like Apple that warns of high current draw detected kind of thing and then not work if your DAC needs too much power?  The phone operational characteristics usually are what limits options.

For example with the iPhone you'll want to disable the charging of any device you connect to it over it's power draw "trigger" limit.

Good luck, and please let us know how whatever you choose works out for you


----------



## RyuzakiL26

hmscott said:


> Have you seen anyone report a BTR5 headphone jack as faulty?  I haven't had a problem myself, and I don't recall anyone posting that as a problem.  I think it would take some heavy abuse to damage one of those internal ports.  More likely abusive force would break the headphone connector first.
> 
> I have heard of people complaining about sitting on their devices (not FiiO) and breaking 2.5mm headphone plugs and insisting that everyone move to 4.4mm plugs - or the new 3.5mm balanced plugs.  I've never had any headphone plug break.  But, then I don't abuse my equipment either by putting it in my pocket and sitting on it.
> 
> ...



From this thread no, I've yet to come across some users complaining about the jack, but from reddit threads - lots of complaints about those. Maybe some improvement have been made since the E11. Maybe I'll ask the local retailers here about the warranty in case such things happen as my definition of "cheap" is around 50$ 😅 and I hate to have a jack that fails on a $133 equipment 😅

Since the battery charging can be disabled and will still continue to work as long as it's connected to USB-C, then I think this is safe to be used as permanent desktop dac/amp and for emergency mobile use👍


----------



## RyuzakiL26

hmscott said:


> @RyuzakiL26 - btw, does your new phone allow charging a connected device - like the BTR5?  Or is it like Apple that warns of high current draw detected kind of thing and then not work if your DAC needs too much power?  The phone operational characteristics usually are what limits options.
> 
> For example with the iPhone you'll want to disable the charging of any device you connect to it over it's power draw "trigger" limit.
> 
> Good luck, and please let us know how whatever you choose works out for you



I've yet to find that out once I have the BTR5 XD (just ordered it), it's not my main use of it as it will be connected to PC 24/7. Will test just in case, as the Bluetooth feature might come in handy on some situation. 🍻


----------



## hmscott (Dec 20, 2020)

RyuzakiL26 said:


> I've yet to find that out once I have the BTR5 XD (just ordered it), it's not my main use of it as it will be connected to PC 24/7. Will test just in case, as the Bluetooth feature might come in handy on some situation. 🍻


Congratulations on getting the BTR5!!

I hope you enjoy it as much as I do, and as much as so many do here on this thread.

Bluetooth is great.  When using an IEM plugged into the BTR5 connected on USB I can simply disconnect from USB and the audio keeps playing with BT paired to the source.


----------



## LoryWiv

hmscott said:


> *The battery will wear out if kept fully charged too*, it's not just discharging and recharging that wears out a battery, simply holding a charge, especially at 100% for long periods is also detrimental to the life of the battery.


I'm sure you are right but I just leave mine plugged in when not in use as I suspect battery lifespan will still be several years and unclear to me how much longevity gain results from less convenient approaches. Is my assumption about battery lifespan incorrect?


----------



## hmscott (Dec 21, 2020)

LoryWiv said:


> I'm sure you are right but I just leave mine plugged in when not in use as I suspect battery lifespan will still be several years and unclear to me how much longevity gain results from less convenient approaches. Is my assumption about battery lifespan incorrect?


Lifespan is going to be long enough even if a modern device is plugged in all the time, the charging circuits are smart enough now to reduce the charge - discharge - and recharge over time.  Usually it's a small amount just enough to keep the battery healthy.

Apple's M1 Macbook Pro is the first I've seen in a long time that lets the battery discharge so low - it's not convenient to the user who needs to take the laptop and go without worrying about having a low charge.  I've gotta do some research as to what's up with that.

Within MacOS Battery control panel there is only one option enable/disable so I can't tune it's behavior which is also a poor design.  Usually there is an option to charge to 80% instead of 100%, or a range of discharge you can set, or even nicer would be a schedule where you need 100% charge - like before work or school - and the rest of the time the battery optimizer can have free reign.  it's my first Macbook in a long long time, so maybe this is normal behavior?

For example LiPo batteries are more sensitive to being left 100% charged and stored - they degrade if you keep doing that, so they have a storage charge that is recommended to be discharged to before storing long term.  4.35v HV charge for use, 3.5v-3.8v for long term use.

If all users of audio devices or laptops had to pay attention to the battery voltage that would be a pain, so the charger takes care of that for your BTR5, laptop, etc.


----------



## FiiO

BenKatz said:


> Oh and one last thing, this is a question, a curiosity of mine, and I would be VERY interested to hear your audio engineers opinon on this.
> 
> I've noticed 0 differences in sound quality when using identical cables - one with in-line mic/remote, one without.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

I checked with the product manager and the cabe with microphone could reduce the sound quality. But due to individual preferences, some people may not feel the difference. 

Best regards


----------



## lucasd (Dec 22, 2020)

BenKatz said:


> Not in line with what the conversation is on about at the moment, but I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about the device:
> 
> It's an excellent bt dac/amp, best on the market, there's no surprise there. Besides excellent sound quality for its category, the fact that it also accepts cables with in-line mics is fantastic especially since if the in line remote has volume control, it will also work for volume/track skipping.
> 
> ...


It is very strange to me that you hear any noise level. Also given 80mv vs 240mw you would more likely hear distortion on SE on high volume.

I agree that balanced is potentially worse, but it allows more power. So it is a design solution.
Hence if you design powerful enough SE going balanced gives you nothing only degradation. But in case of BTR5 it is different story, as power is limited.
From article: "In fairness to balanced designs, I should point out that a balanced output can deliver 4 times the power for a given power supply voltage. However, this would only be necessary if the product was battery operated. The balanced output would offer no real advantage in an AC powered amplifier."

And finally if you go for science route I can tell you no proof whatsoever that cables makes difference (like silver or copper)

P.S> Balanced feed is solution to limit noise in cable. Of course given short length of those cable sit does not matter, but it is another design choice...


----------



## anli

Can anybody share information how many hours BTR5 is able to feed Tin HiFi P1?


----------



## sebek

anli said:


> Can anybody share information how many hours BTR5 is able to feed Tin HiFi P1?


Just connect BTR5 to your smartphone in USB DAC mode and CHARGE ON and the battery problem is no longer a problem. And you gain a lot in sound quality compared to the BT.


----------



## anli

sebek said:


> Just connect BTR5 to your smartphone in USB DAC mode and CHARGE ON and the battery problem is no longer a problem. And you gain a lot in sound quality compared to the BT.


Sorry, I'm interested in BT use case.


----------



## anli (Dec 22, 2020)

Del


----------



## BenKatz

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> I checked with the product manager and the cabe with microphone could reduce the sound quality. But due to individual preferences, some people may not feel the difference.
> 
> Best regards



I was also wondering why the default setting for gain on the BTR5 is "high" ?

As far as I knew, high gain affects sound quality, as it introduces more noise floor correct?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

RyuzakiL26 said:


> Thanks for this, then to clarify the moment I've attached the BTR5 to my PC via USB-C port, I can disable charging and it will not rely on the USB-C as its power or it will use the battery all through-out? If it's the latter, I think I will purchase the FiiO K3 instead as it can be attached to the phone (K30 Pro Zoom) and PC as well - minus the headache of micro-managing the battery unlike the BTR5. What worries me is the audio ports, as it seems FiiO has a history of forgetting to put some quality on those XD. I already have the Deoxit ready though I think no amount of cleaning will fix a broken jack from the get go 😅


Don't be scared about that.
I use my BTR5 with bluetooth for work and via usb to my Surface while at home/ at the office.
Charging is always on on mine.
Never had an issue with.


----------



## goodyfresh

So here's a question I'm sure has come up before, but I'm having trouble finding answers: What actually sounds better, the BTR5 or the BTR3K? I know the BTR5 has more power, but I'm wondering which of the two units has better sound-quality when compared using proper volume-matching.

I'm also wondering if the BTR3K could adequately power something like the Sennheiser HD560s (120ohm impedance, 108db/1V and 99db/mW sensitivity) to get the most out of their sound *from its single-ended 3.5mm output*, or whether I'd be better served by the BTR5 for that.


----------



## Octavius

Even BTR 5 through the balance couldn't drive Sennheiser 560, there is no enough power for it ( less than 20mW through the 3.5mm). I've tried 660s, no chances. Also in specs for BTR5, for 3.5mm are recommended headphones from 16 to 100 ohms.


----------



## goodyfresh

Octavius said:


> Even BTR 5 through the balance couldn't drive Sennheiser 560, there is no enough power for it ( less than 20mW through the 3.5mm). I've tried 660s, no chances. Also in specs for BTR5, for 3.5mm are recommended headphones from 16 to 100 ohms.



Huh, strange... The 660s are a lot harder to drive than the 560s... the former is 150 ohms with 96db/MW sensitivity, the latter is 120 ohms with 99db/MW. People in the dedicated 560s thread say the BTR5 is plenty to drive them unless I want them to reach like, DANGEROUS volume levels, lol.


----------



## BenKatz

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> I checked with the product manager and the cabe with microphone could reduce the sound quality. But due to individual preferences, some people may not feel the difference.
> 
> Best regards



Hello Again - I was wondering, what type or reduction of sound quality? Interference/crossfeed, lowered frequency response, or is it simply that the mic/buttons module acts as a "resistor" and adds resistance (higher ohms) to the wire itself?

Thank you!


----------



## goodyfresh

Has anyone here been able to compare the sound of the BTR5 as a USB DAC to that of the Fiio K3 and could give impressions on that?


----------



## FiiO

goodyfresh said:


> Has anyone here been able to compare the sound of the BTR5 as a USB DAC to that of the Fiio K3 and could give impressions on that?


Dear friend, 

You could have a try in the local stores if there is local store in your city: https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy

The BTR5 has Bluetooth function as well and the K3 supports coaxial/optical output. So you could choose the one which could meet your need most.

Best regards


----------



## goodyfresh

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> You could have a try in the local stores if there is local store in your city: https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy
> 
> ...



No stores dealing in Fiio products are OPEN anywhere near me, and even if they were, I'm not willing to go to them during current conditions since I am in a heavily populated area of the United States.

That's why I'm asking if anyone here has had the chance to compare the Fiio K3 to the BTR5 when the latter is used purely as a USB DAC.

If you had to answer, which one would you say probably would/should sound better? Would it be the K3 since it is meant purely as a USB DAC and doesn't have the additional electronics for Bluetooth, and also because it has the better volume-control? Or would it be the BTR5 since it's a newer product with newer technology?


----------



## sebek

In your experience, the balanced output of the BTR5 only makes sense with headphones and iems that are less easy to drive or does it always sound better than the unbalanced one?


----------



## Ichos

It always sounds better because it takes full advantage of the internal balanced circuit.
Greater clarity , definition and detail plus enhanced soundstage and dynamics.


----------



## Ichos

@goodyfresh 

Well guess what , I have both!!!

I will not talk sound signature as this is very subjective and I don't have the time to dive into more detail.

Regarding power and drive authority the K3 is better especially from the single ended out that you are interested.

The circuit is far better with dedicated low pass filter and driver op amps vs the ESS dac chip that has everything embedded into it.

So you get better authority and slam thanks to higher voltage swing and current flow.

If desktop use was my case then I have surely preferred the K3.

Too lazy to take photos.

Happy new year.


----------



## goodyfresh

@Ichos Thank you for the information! Happy new year to you as well.


----------



## goodyfresh

Sorry for the double-post but I have a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, you guys:

*Is there any way to force the BTR5 to use APTX-LL instead of standard APTX on Windows 10?* It's driving me nuts; I love this thing as a USB DAC but it's pretty much useless to me for Bluetooth when it comes to watching videos due to the standard Bluetooth lag/latency that's enough to be extremely noticeable in video-content. I paired the BTR5 with my phone and used the Fiio Control app; I *tried* to deselect all the audio codecs besides APTX-LL so that the BTR5 will be forced to only ever use low-latency, but *instead of applying that setting, it automatically selects both APTX-LL AND normal APTX. I have found no way to force the BTR5 to only operate in low-latency mode.*

Unfortunately, as we all know Windows 10 is really stupid with Bluetooth audio, and won't send low-latency signal to the BTR5 unless I can find some way to force the BTR5 to only run in APTX-LL. Unless I'm wrong about that; is there some way to force Windows to use APTX-LL? My laptop has an Intel Bluetooth chipset that I'm pretty sure supports ALL codecs including APTX-LL, but that's useless to me if I can't get it to actually transmit using the codec I want.

*If I can't resolve this issue then I will return the BTR5 and just get the Fiio K3* instead, since the BTR5's Bluetooth feature (which is supposed to be its main selling-point) is *completely useless to me if I can't stream videos on Windows 10 with low enough latency* to make them watchable.


----------



## LoryWiv

goodyfresh said:


> Sorry for the double-post but I have a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, you guys:
> 
> *Is there any way to force the BTR5 to use APTX-LL instead of standard APTX on Windows 10?* It's driving me nuts; I love this thing as a USB DAC but it's pretty much useless to me for Bluetooth when it comes to watching videos due to the standard Bluetooth lag/latency that's enough to be extremely noticeable in video-content. I paired the BTR5 with my phone and used the Fiio Control app; I *tried* to deselect all the audio codecs besides APTX-LL so that the BTR5 will be forced to only ever use low-latency, but *instead of applying that setting, it automatically selects both APTX-LL AND normal APTX. I have found no way to force the BTR5 to only operate in low-latency mode.*
> 
> ...


As you point out, Windows BT implementation is next to useless. An easy solution for me was 1Mii B03Pro BT trransmitter. Connects to  PC out and then to my BTR5 with AptX-HD or AptX-LL codecs as selected. I also use it to BTR5 for 24 bit music listening and to a pair of powered speakers. Right up there with the most useful $55 dollar purchases I've made, and I know there are other similar devices that may work as well for even less.


----------



## Ichos

@goodyfresh 

I don't think that Windows 10 support aptX LL and that is why you can't connect with BTR 5.
You have to buy a separate usb transmitter dongle.
Windows bluetooth is totally useless.


----------



## goodyfresh

So guys, I now have both the BTR5 and K3, and I have to say that while the K3 does sound better with full-sized headphones than the BTR5 when volume-matched and with both used as USB DAC's, the BTR5 as a USB DAC manages to come shockingly close to the K3's level! I'm very impressed with it. I'll be keeping both, as my budget now allows it; I will be using the BTR5 when I need IEM's for isolation and when I travel, and the K3 as my main desktop unit for my full-sized cans (not that the BTR5 can't power them just fine). I also figure _it's good to have both just in case one of them dies/craps-out on me_, since while we love their products we here all know that Fiio is pretty infamous for hit-or-miss quality-control and for generally not honoring their so-called "warranty" coverage, lol.

I also plan to get a 2.5mm balanced cable for my headphones so I can make use of the full potential of both the K3 and BTR5 from their balanced outputs 

But overall I have to say that the BTR5 impresses the hell out of me with both my Fiio FH3's (for which it's better than the K3 since the latter is a bit overpowered for the FH3's and has a TINY bit of background hiss) and with my Fidelio X2HR's which it drives with NEARLY as much headroom as the K3 does and with sound-quality NEARLY as good as they get from the K3. I also find its bluetooth and microphone feature useful to me for listening to music from my laptop while doing stuff around my apartment and for staying in Discord chat with my buddies when away from the laptop


----------



## moorashj (Jan 5, 2021)

Hello all,
Looked around but couldn’t find an answer. I have a hiby r5 and was wondering if the Fiio btr5 would add anything to the r5 in terms of sound. I can pick up one for 50 bucks. Thanks


----------



## sebek

I played around with the BTR5 filters for a while and can't remember which was the default, APOD 1 or APOD 2?

And which one do you use?


----------



## goodyfresh

sebek said:


> I played around with the BTR5 filters for a while and can't remember which was the default, APOD 1 or APOD 2?
> 
> And which one do you use?



I'm not sure if I can even hear a difference between the filters, but the default is APOD 1.

*This raises a big question I have though:* **What is the difference between the filters, anyway? Especially in USB DAC mode?** I have not been able to find ANY info online as to frequency-response graphs for the different filters, how they handle aliasing, if any other measurements like THD change at all between them, etc. *Does anyone here know that information? What is objectively the "best"/"most hi-fi" of the filters?*


----------



## moorashj

goodyfresh said:


> I'm not sure if I can even hear a difference between the filters, but the default is APOD 1.
> 
> *This raises a big question I have though:* **What is the difference between the filters, anyway? Especially in USB DAC mode?** I have not been able to find ANY info online as to frequency-response graphs for the different filters, how they handle aliasing, if any other measurements like THD change at all between them, etc. *Does anyone here know that information? What is objectively the "best"/"most hi-fi" of the filters?*


Do you use this with a DAP?


----------



## goodyfresh

moorashj said:


> Do you use this with a DAP?



As a USB DAC for my phone and sometimes my laptop. It sounds better than my Hiby R3 DAP does. Why, does that have something to do with how the different filters perform?


----------



## moorashj

goodyfresh said:


> As a USB DAC for my phone and sometimes my laptop. It sounds better than my Hiby R3 DAP does. Why, does that have something to do with how the different filters perform?


No lol. Was just trying to see if anyone uses it with a dap. Just wondered if it would benefit my hiby r5.


----------



## NallyFace

Has anyone compared the BTR5 with the M-DAC Nano?


----------



## ThePeave

I have a BTR5 I use on the go with my iPhone. I recently got an iPhone 12 and have been running into an issue I wasn't having with my old iPhone and wanted to see if anyone else is having a similar problem (sorry if this has been brought up before, I searched but didn't see anything).

I listen from the Tidal app and have the iPhone volume set to max and adjust volume with the BTR5. After around 45-60min, I get a notification saying that I have exceeded my 7 day audio exposure limit and the phone turns the volume down to 50%. There is no setting I can find to disable these notifications. It seems that the iPhone thinks the BTR5 is a bluetooth headphone and that I'm constantly listening at 100% volume. Has anyone else had this issue and found a work around? Only to options I have are to keep turning up the volume (the notifications become more frequent when I do this) or keep the iPhone volume at 50% and turn up the volume on the BTR5, which seems suboptimal.


----------



## SenorChang8

ThePeave said:


> I have a BTR5 I use on the go with my iPhone. I recently got an iPhone 12 and have been running into an issue I wasn't having with my old iPhone and wanted to see if anyone else is having a similar problem (sorry if this has been brought up before, I searched but didn't see anything).
> 
> I listen from the Tidal app and have the iPhone volume set to max and adjust volume with the BTR5. After around 45-60min, I get a notification saying that I have exceeded my 7 day audio exposure limit and the phone turns the volume down to 50%. There is no setting I can find to disable these notifications. It seems that the iPhone thinks the BTR5 is a bluetooth headphone and that I'm constantly listening at 100% volume. Has anyone else had this issue and found a work around? Only to options I have are to keep turning up the volume (the notifications become more frequent when I do this) or keep the iPhone volume at 50% and turn up the volume on the BTR5, which seems suboptimal.



This has basically killed my use of BTR5 with iPhone and pushes me another step towards android. The iPhone is obviously smart enough to detect what kind of Bluetooth device it’s paired with and stop restricting volume.

This issue affects streaming to speakers as well. I do think they’re deliberately overlooking it in an effort to push more users to AirPods and Apple ecosystem. 

I have found this workaround on Reddit but yet to implement it. Let me know how it goes if it works for you.


----------



## vmiguel

SenorChang8 said:


> This has basically killed my use of BTR5 with iPhone and pushes me another step towards android. The iPhone is obviously smart enough to detect what kind of Bluetooth device it’s paired with and stop restricting volume.
> 
> This issue affects streaming to speakers as well. I do think they’re deliberately overlooking it in an effort to push more users to AirPods and Apple ecosystem.
> 
> I have found this workaround on Reddit but yet to implement it. Let me know how it goes if it works for you.


Me too...


----------



## ThePeave

SenorChang8 said:


> I have found this workaround on Reddit but yet to implement it. Let me know how it goes if it works for you.



Thanks for the Reddit link, I wasn't having any luck finding any kind of solution for this. I haven't used shortcuts on the iPhone before, but I will play around with it and give it a shot and follow up here with how it works.


----------



## ThePeave

SenorChang8 said:


> I have found this workaround on Reddit but yet to implement it. Let me know how it goes if it works for you.



So update on this, this solution worked for me and has made my iPhone —> BTR5 usable again. I created a slightly different shortcut that works a little better for me and then set it to run automatically when my phone connects to the BTR5 over Bluetooth. If anyone is interested in using the shortcut I made, here is a link.

https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/0a474bba3151430ea9ac974cae94f17f


----------



## SenorChang8 (Jan 12, 2021)

ThePeave said:


> So update on this, this solution worked for me and has made my iPhone —> BTR5 usable again. I created a slightly different shortcut that works a little better for me and then set it to run automatically when my phone connects to the BTR5 over Bluetooth. If anyone is interested in using the shortcut I made, here is a link.
> 
> https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/0a474bba3151430ea9ac974cae94f17f



Great news! Thanks for the shortcut loaded it up now. This was stopping me from getting the UTWS3, it’s tempting now...


----------



## NallyFace (Jan 12, 2021)

Starting to think that it could be worth me not getting a BTR or similar if Apple are doing this sort of thing. Maybe a separate device for music is the way to go. How does work in terms of streaming, can they piggy back of a phones hotspot for 4G?

No no, don’t tell me, they will Bluetooth too, likely to suffer the same problem?


----------



## SenorChang8

NallyFace said:


> Starting to think that it could be worth me not getting a BTR or similar if Apple are doing this sort of thing. Maybe a separate device for music is the way to go. How does work in terms of streaming, can they piggy back of a phones hotspot for 4G?
> 
> No no, don’t tell me, they will Bluetooth too, likely to suffer the same problem?



Digital Audio Players are worth looking in to, Fiio has a wide range for each budget. Most connect via WiFi and mobile hotspots, music can also be stored in the SD card.


----------



## NallyFace

SenorChang8 said:


> Digital Audio Players are worth looking in to, Fiio has a wide range for each budget. Most connect via WiFi and mobile hotspots, music can also be stored in the SD card.



Very tempted to up my budget to £250 now for a player that I absolutely did not want 20mins ago.


----------



## SenorChang8

NallyFace said:


> Very tempted to up my budget to £250 now for a player that I absolutely did not want 20mins ago.



I know the feeling. Welcome to the rabbit hole of audio!


----------



## MikonJuice

Can someone help me with the BTR5 configuration?

I'm trying to set it to be my sound card for my computer, but some characteristcs of this dap are driving me crazy: i plug it using a usb to usb-c cable to my computer, but the battery just doesn't recharge and every 2~3 minutes it goes silent, even though the computer shows that everything is plugged normally. I can even see the name "btr5" when I click in the sound icon.

So, everything goes mute, and then I have to unplug and plug it again to the computer. 

I really don't know if this is some kind of configuration, or the dap is just with some deffect. It was working properly, aside the non-recharging battery, but not nothing is working. Can it be some kind of bluetooth interference?

Help! XD I'm about to through it in the trash bin!


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Go to the settings menu of the btr5 and turn on charging.

-Turn on the Btr5
-Press the power button for 3 sec
-Switch through the settings by pushing the play button
-On "Charge" menu press the volume up button one time

Plug the Btr5 to your computer.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Dash

The Apple headphone notifications for exceeding a certain volume can be turned off.  Go to settings >sound and haptic >headphone safety 

turn it off there


----------



## ThePeave

Dash said:


> The Apple headphone notifications for exceeding a certain volume can be turned off.  Go to settings >sound and haptic >headphone safety
> 
> turn it off there



The option to turn off the headphone notifications is not available on all devices (including mine). Sounds like it may depend on certain local regulations or something.


----------



## FiiO

MikonJuice said:


> Can someone help me with the BTR5 configuration?
> 
> I'm trying to set it to be my sound card for my computer, but some characteristcs of this dap are driving me crazy: i plug it using a usb to usb-c cable to my computer, but the battery just doesn't recharge and every 2~3 minutes it goes silent, even though the computer shows that everything is plugged normally. I can even see the name "btr5" when I click in the sound icon.
> 
> ...


Can your BTR5 be charged by the charger instead?

It has charging protection detection, when the output power from the usb port is lower than 4.6V, the charging in BTR5 will stop.

Best regards


----------



## NallyFace

I’m about to get a BTR5 - but I do also want to wire this to my iPhon at times. What will I need? I have IEM’s, will wrap that cable up to make shorter but the other end, BTR to phone, USB-C to lightning?


----------



## rlw6534 (Jan 16, 2021)

NallyFace said:


> I’m about to get a BTR5 - but I do also want to wire this to my iPhon at times. What will I need? I have IEM’s, will wrap that cable up to make shorter but the other end, BTR to phone, USB-C to lightning?



A USB-C to lightning MFI cable should work.  Here is a short one - there are lots of choices:

https://www.amazon.com/EasyAcc-Lightning-Certified-Delivery-Charging/dp/B082V8Q8V6


----------



## NallyFace

I’ve read that I would actually need a camera adapter? as otherwise it won’t be recognised. Seams a bit of bloody pain. I keep changing my mind on if this is worth it. Tough game this!


----------



## rlw6534

NallyFace said:


> I’ve read that I would actually need a camera adapter? as otherwise it won’t be recognised. Seams a bit of bloody pain. I keep changing my mind on if this is worth it. Tough game this!



I stand corrected.  I believe you are right on this.  This one claims to work without CCK:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33009721024.html


----------



## NallyFace

Good find sir! The BTR5 could be back on the list. I’m torn between the BTR5 or getting a stand alone player, that can host Spotify and some hires files for fave albums. I’ve never found a purchase to be so difficult to decide.


----------



## Polky74

Anyone knows if the Btr5 can drive at their full potential the Tin P1?
Thanks.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

There's not really a reason to wire it to your phone. It's not gonna sound much different (if at all) since it's going through the same DAC/amp regardless.

Also really pleased with how effortlessly these push the KBEar Believe.


----------



## NallyFace

The only thing I could say is I used to use a Fiio i1, add that added a big improvement to my IEM’s over the std Apple dongle. Hope for similar with something like the BTR5 but with the bonus of BT for when I want it and the USB for my laptop.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Off the phone, just use it BT. It's absolutely aces. Plug 'er in on your laptop, sure, but there's no bonus to using it wired off the phone (and is just annoying).


----------



## ThePeave

SenorChang8 said:


> This has basically killed my use of BTR5 with iPhone and pushes me another step towards android. The iPhone is obviously smart enough to detect what kind of Bluetooth device it’s paired with and stop restricting volume.
> 
> This issue affects streaming to speakers as well. I do think they’re deliberately overlooking it in an effort to push more users to AirPods and Apple ecosystem.
> 
> I have found this workaround on Reddit but yet to implement it. Let me know how it goes if it works for you.



Just wanted to give an update on the headphone notifications issue that some iPhone users were having. The shortcut workaround I had posted earlier had been working well for me, but it was still a workaround. Today I updated to iOS 14.4 which has definitively fixed the issue. There is now an option in the bluetooth settings to specify what type of device is connected over bluetooth. If you select the bluetooth device, then change the device type to something other than headphones (like speakers), the iPhone wont track that devices playback level towards the weekly limit.


----------



## PeterMac (Jan 31, 2021)

I have a few question about using EQ in FiiO Music app with BTR5.
Which EQ is betteer to use built in device in Device Control, or Equalizer in FiiO Music ?
I noticed that EQ in app when increase for example bass lower volume, built in EQ in BTR3/BTR5 do not do this.
What is better option use one EQ in device control on maximum +12dB value for 31,62Hz or use both with lover vaules +6dB on each one ?


----------



## Polky74

How much output power has the BTR5 in balanced mode for an iem of 20 ohms?
For 32 ohms it has 240 for canal but in 20 ohms?
Thanks for the reply


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Feb 2, 2021)

Hypothetically around 384mW.

But it belongs to the capabilities and characteristics of the built-in amp. 

Calculation based on

*This calculator*


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The spec sheet of the BTR5 says for balanced output:

240mW at 32 *and* 16Ohm. 

*FiiO BTR5 spec sheet*

Guess the BTR5 lowers the current output on lower resistant loads.


----------



## ilianto (Feb 3, 2021)

Hey all, I wonder if anyone could help me with an issue I have with my brand new BTR5 which I enjoy immensely so far...
When I connect it to my phones through USB with the usb-c to usb-c cable that came with my Pixel 3a it works just fine. But the plugs are a little loose and with the slightest move it disconnects from the phone (especially on my older Xiaomi MiA1 which is a bit worn-out). So, I tried another usb-c to usb-c cable from Baseus, a Type-C CATKLF-G91, 3A 60W, PD2.0 which I have used for some time now to charge anything usb-c and is tighter... But, it doesn't work. BTR5 doesn't recognize it and phones play from their speakers instead... 
Could there be something wrong with the cable or are specific usb-c cables needed to work and Google's is one of them?


----------



## Polky74

ilianto said:


> Hey all, I wonder if anyone could help me with an issue I have with my brand new BTR5 which I enjoy immensely so far...
> When I connect it to my phones through USB with the usb-c to usb-c cable that came with my Pixel 3a it works just fine. But the plugs are a little loose and with the slightest move it disconnects from the phone (especially on my older Xiaomi MiA1 which is a bit worn-out). So, I tried another usb-c to usb-c cable from Baseus, a Type-C CATKLF-G91, 3A 60W, PD2.0 which I have used for some time now to charge anything usb-c and is tighter... But, it doesn't work. BTR5 doesn't recognize it and phones play from their speakers instead...
> Could there be something wrong with the cable or are specific usb-c cables needed to work and Google's is one of them?



Probably the second usb cable did you use isn't an otg cable... you need otg cable to connect the btr5.


----------



## ilianto (Feb 3, 2021)

Polky74 said:


> Probably the second usb cable did you use isn't an otg cable... you need otg cable to connect the btr5.


Thanks for your time but none of the cables I can find online say they are OTG, how would anyone know?
And they all say they support high speed data transfer... Mine says up to 480Mbps.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

For my BTR 5 i still use a AmazonBasic Usb-C to Usb-C cable and it works flawlessly.

*AmazonBasic USB-C cable*

Also the Fiio Usb-C to Usb-A Otg cable do the job well with the Usb cable of my phone.


----------



## ilianto

Chris Kaoss said:


> For my BTR 5 i still use a AmazonBasic Usb-C to Usb-C cable and it works flawlessly.
> 
> *AmazonBasic USB-C cable*
> 
> Also the Fiio Usb-C to Usb-A Otg cable do the job well with the Usb cable of my phone.


It must be a faulty cable, it only charges, no data going through... And they don't even accept responsibility from the shop cause a few months passed since it was bought.... Bummer.


----------



## Polky74

ilianto said:


> It must be a faulty cable, it only charges, no data going through... And they don't even accept responsibility from the shop cause a few months passed since it was bought.... Bummer.



If you suspect that this cable is faulty i suggest you to not use it with your brand new btr5


----------



## Polky74

With the Tin P1 the Btr5 sounds magical...
Thanks to this forum and to all of you for this kind of emotions...


----------



## ilianto

Got another question for you people. Is it normal for the volume of calls to be quite lower through the BTR5 than straight from the phone's jack? Like half the volume...?


----------



## Ichos

It is adjusted separately so you need to check out the level.


----------



## ilianto

Ichos said:


> It is adjusted separately so you need to check out the level.


Oh, yeah, that's right, silly me. Thank you @Ichos. 😊

May I also add that my Xiaomi Hybrid HD Pros sound even more amazing now that they are properly amplified by the BTR5? 😁 Also waiting for an MMCX modded MH1 to check out. And it brought new life connected to my "ancient" iPod HiFi speaker and also made it a bit more wireless of course. 🤘


----------



## megabigeye

ilianto said:


> Hey all, I wonder if anyone could help me with an issue I have with my brand new BTR5 which I enjoy immensely so far...
> When I connect it to my phones through USB with the usb-c to usb-c cable that came with my Pixel 3a it works just fine. But the plugs are a little loose and with the slightest move it disconnects from the phone (especially on my older Xiaomi MiA1 which is a bit worn-out). So, I tried another usb-c to usb-c cable from Baseus, a Type-C CATKLF-G91, 3A 60W, PD2.0 which I have used for some time now to charge anything usb-c and is tighter... But, it doesn't work. BTR5 doesn't recognize it and phones play from their speakers instead...
> Could there be something wrong with the cable or are specific usb-c cables needed to work and Google's is one of them?


Sounds like maybe that's a charging only cable. As far as I understand, USB-C doesn't require OTG like older versions of USB. Any proper USB-C cable should work.


----------



## ilianto

megabigeye said:


> Sounds like maybe that's a charging only cable. As far as I understand, USB-C doesn't require OTG like older versions of USB. Any proper USB-C cable should work.


Well, Baseus says it's also doing data, so... 😕


----------



## Aevum

i have 2 Baseus 65 Gan chargers, the one i have at home works great, 
the one i have in the office, 2 months in the PD 3.0 port is dead, not very nice for a 40 buck charger.


----------



## ilianto

Aevum said:


> i have 2 Baseus 65 Gan chargers, the one i have at home works great,
> the one i have in the office, 2 months in the PD 3.0 port is dead, not very nice for a 40 buck charger.


Maybe an Anker or a Samsung cable proves more durable... I am planning to get a Samsung when I go shopping in town. I have a 25W PD charger for a few months now and seems pretty good quality.


----------



## Polky74

Where i can get the windows 10 drivers for Btr5? 
Can you share a links, i don't find the drivers on the fiio website...
Thanks


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Polky74 said:


> Where i can get the windows 10 drivers for Btr5?
> Can you share a links, i don't find the drivers on the fiio website...
> Thanks


*FiiO Usb dac driver*


----------



## Polky74

Thanks... i discover that the fiio cable of the btr5 is faulty and doesn't allow to connect with laptop.


----------



## Apex Eight

Do we know if Fiio will be releasing a successor to the BTR5? BTR5K? I've got a Qudelix 5K that I like, but it's sharp edges are kinda bothering me (small gripe, I know). I'm also a bit of a Fiio fanboy and love my FH3.


----------



## Ichos

You don't need to be a FiiO fanboy to love the FH3!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Apex Eight said:


> Do we know if Fiio will be releasing a successor to the BTR5? BTR5K? I've got a Qudelix 5K that I like, but it's sharp edges are kinda bothering me (small gripe, I know). I'm also a bit of a Fiio fanboy and love my FH3.



What's missing in the BTR5? Honest question, I'm not sure what else I would want from it.


----------



## PeterMac (Feb 4, 2021)

^ There are few things to improve BTR5, most important are:

- EQ support for LDAC !!!
- lighter construction
- better BT range like Qudelix 5K
- aptX Adaptive support.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Apex Eight said:


> Do we know if Fiio will be releasing a successor to the BTR5? BTR5K? I've got a Qudelix 5K that I like, but it's sharp edges are kinda bothering me (small gripe, I know). I'm also a bit of a Fiio fanboy and love my FH3.


The only thing for me is

Battery endurance, especially on Ldac


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The EQ and range thing I definitely am on board with, but y'all should hit the gym more often if you think this things heavy lol. If anything, one reason I like it a ton more than my ES100 is that it doesn't feel small and cheap.


----------



## megabigeye

Things I would want changed on a new version:
- LDAC EQ
- lighter weight. It's not heavy like I have a hard time lifting it, it's heavy like I can't clip it to my shirt, which makes the microphone basically useless.
- glass is a "fancy" material, but it's really not appropriate here (or in other mobile applications other than screens). I want durability and light weight before I want a cheap impression of luxury.
- a clip that can actually hold the BTR5
- better Bluetooth range. I basically have to have my phone in the same pocket as the BTR5 in order to not get dropouts. Okay, that's a slight exaggeration, but not as much of one as it should be.
- better battery life
- easily Mac update-able firmware (honestly, this is the dumbest freaking thing in 2021)
- I hate balanced with the same blind rage that I hate Eric Clapton. Why not just make the single-ended output sound good and have decent power? I. Don't. Want. Extra. Cables.
- roll-off filters should actually make a difference. I could hear a clear difference on the ES100, but not on the BTR5. Either there's no difference between them or mine doesn't work properly. Either way, not good.
- the app is full of gimmicks that don't actually do anything (okay, I haven't actually looked at the app for a several months because it was so dopey)
- button layout that makes some sort of logical sense. I've had this thing for almost a year and I _still_ hit the wrong volume button. I had a similar problem with the original X5-- I was hoping FiiO would have figured this out by now. Also, holding the "-" button to skip forward and "+" to skip back? THAT MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE!

Things I would keep:
- sounds good
- looks good
- decent price


----------



## jsmiller58

megabigeye said:


> Things I would want changed on a new version:
> - LDAC EQ
> - lighter weight. It's not heavy like I have a hard time lifting it, it's heavy like I can't clip it to my shirt, which makes the microphone basically useless.
> - glass is a "fancy" material, but it's really not appropriate here (or in other mobile applications other than screens). I want durability and light weight before I want a cheap impression of luxury.
> ...


Interesting list.  Not much comment other than to say a few of your points might be targeted at a narrow audience...  I for one have balanced cables on all of my IEMs.  I like the premium feel of the glass.  On the other hand, smaller size and lower weight, filters that make an audible difference, and real PEQ that works on LDAC would entice me to upgrade.  Buttons...  all I can say is, if you want hard to understand and remember, check out the Qudelix 5K...


----------



## megabigeye

jsmiller58 said:


> Interesting list.  Not much comment other than to say a few of your points might be targeted at a narrow audience...  I for one have balanced cables on all of my IEMs.  I like the premium feel of the glass.  On the other hand, smaller size and lower weight, filters that make an audible difference, and real PEQ that works on LDAC would entice me to upgrade.  Buttons...  all I can say is, if you want hard to understand and remember, check out the Qudelix 5K...


Which of my points would be for a narrow audience?

Oh yeah, and I'll add one more:
- USB EQ

I honestly don't think I would even consider a next gen BTR5. These are all features that should and could have been included in this version. I feel miffed by FiiO.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Feb 4, 2021)

megabigeye said:


> Which of my points would be for a narrow audience?
> 
> Oh yeah, and I'll add one more:
> - USB EQ
> ...


Sorry, maybe my post was not clear...  specifically, at least where I am concerned, the no balanced comment...  all of my IEMs all have balanced cables.  I also appreciate the luxury feel of the glass.

On the other hand I was agreeing with your comments about smaller size and lower weight, the PEQ for LDAC, and filters that actually make a detectable difference.

I should add that the BTR5 buttons aren’t bad compared to the buttons on the Qudelix 5K...


----------



## LoryWiv

megabigeye said:


> Things I would want changed on a new version:
> - LDAC EQ
> - lighter weight. It's not heavy like I have a hard time lifting it, it's heavy like I can't clip it to my shirt, which makes the microphone basically useless.
> - glass is a "fancy" material, but it's really not appropriate here (or in other mobile applications other than screens). I want durability and light weight before I want a cheap impression of luxury.
> ...


Trying to get over your hating on Mr. Clapton  but your point about BT range is well-taken. Otherwise, I love this device overall, like the fit, finish, look and feel and do use it balanced for more power. I find the buttons I use routinely are reasonably intuitive. A key thing I really like is the ability change 2nd order harmonics in the app...I'm not an EQ fan but do think 2nd order harmonics are not 'gimmicky" but bring noticeably more musicality like tubes versus SS can. I recommend experimenting with it if you've not yet done so. Anyway, all respect to @megabigeye for laying this list out so well for others to respond to. A useful and interesting post, much appreciated.


----------



## megabigeye

jsmiller58 said:


> Sorry, maybe my post was not clear...  specifically, at least where I am concerned, the no balanced comment...  all of my IEMs all have balanced cables.  I also appreciate the luxury feel of the glass.
> 
> On the other hand I was agreeing with your comments about smaller size and lower weight, the PEQ for LDAC, and filters that actually make a detectable difference.
> 
> I should add that the BTR5 buttons aren’t bad compared to the buttons on the Qudelix 5K...


I had a feeling the glass and balanced were the things you were talking about.

I also like the feel of the glass, but it only gives the _impression_ of being luxury, it doesn't actually make it a luxury device.  For it to be real luxury it has to be a good product first, luxury second.  I just don't think the BTR5 is a particularly good device, therefore it really _can't_ be a luxury device.  And if it can't be one, why is it pretending?  There are plenty of materials out there that would be more appropriate, but nobody is creative enough to use them.

There's really no reason that balanced should sound better than single-ended.  None.  Single-ended can sound completely audibly transparent, which is _technically_ the best a device can sound.  That's the "wire with gain" people used to tout.  Once transparency is achieved, there's no reason it can't be tuned any which way the designer wants.
I realize I'm probably in the minority on Head-Fi in not wanting to use balanced cables, but in the greater world I'm in the very vast majority.  I can assure you that most of the Joe Sixpack non-audiophiles aren't dying to upgrade their earphones from 3.5mm single-ended to some standard that doesn't work with their other devices.  FiiO seems content with only appealing (and pandering) to audiophiles, rather than making products that are more widely appealing.

And this reminds me, I'd also want to change:
- that mushy 3.5mm jack that just screams "afterthought"

Also, just because the 5K's buttons are worse than the BTR5's doesn't mean the BTR5's are suddenly good.



LoryWiv said:


> Trying to get over your hating on Mr. Clapton  but your point about BT range is well-taken. Otherwise, I love this device overall, like the fit, finish, look and feel and do use it balanced for more power. I find the buttons I use routinely are reasonably intuitive. A key thing I really like is the ability change 2nd order harmonics in the app...I'm not an EQ fan but do think 2nd order harmonics are not 'gimmicky" but bring noticeably more musicality like tubes versus SS can. I recommend experimenting with it if you've not yet done so. Anyway, all respect to @megabigeye for laying this list out so well for others to respond to. A useful and interesting post, much appreciated.


I knew I'd irritate somebody with my comment about Clapton.  Sorry!  But, my God, I stand firm in my opinion!

Oh yeah, those harmonic distortion things.  I forgot about those, but I have tried them more than once.  They didn't make any appreciable difference no matter how I set them.  I must've lumped them somewhere between "dopey app" and "gimmicky roll-off filters" in my mind.
Not to say that nobody hears a difference with them.  But if that's the case, why can't I hear a difference?  Is my BTR5 not functioning properly?  Either way, it's something that should have been fixed.  Why would a feature be included if it doesn't do anything, or how can a product be considered market ready if certain features work on only some devices?


I'm happy to have started an interesting conversation on here.  On the one hand, I'm sorry if I've upset people's enjoyment of the BTR5, but on the other hand, I think people should be more demanding of the devices they buy and live with.
Also, I'm blaming all of this on FiiO, but the truth is that a _lot_ (Most?  All?) of audio companies are guilty of the same or different complaints.  For one hot minute I was thinking about getting a Mojo...  About the only thing I saw in the thread was people complaining; I don't remember seeing one positive comment on the few pages I looked at.  My immediate thought was, "For _that_ price?!  No f%^&ing way."
But, like the volume buttons, just because other companies are as bad or worse doesn't automatically make FiiO good.


----------



## jsmiller58

megabigeye said:


> I had a feeling the glass and balanced were the things you were talking about.
> 
> I also like the feel of the glass, but it only gives the _impression_ of being luxury, it doesn't actually make it a luxury device.  For it to be real luxury it has to be a good product first, luxury second.  I just don't think the BTR5 is a particularly good device, therefore it really _can't_ be a luxury device.  And if it can't be one, why is it pretending?  There are plenty of materials out there that would be more appropriate, but nobody is creative enough to use them.
> 
> ...


No problem!  I personally am enjoying the BTR5 (as well as Qudelix 5K), but I hope you find something that you prefer!


----------



## Aevum (Feb 5, 2021)

I wanted more power, so i just changed from unbalanced to balanced and now its even better.

the only way they could improve it is basically make a jacket you can slip on it with a 2nd battery and a SD card slot so you can us it as a dap.

After having owned the original BTR, the M3K, M3Pro and X3 II, as well as the LC-BT2 and the UTWS3 i like the BTR5 the best, followed by the M3Pro. 

both very well designed and very nice and premium feeling to hold, the BTR and the LC-BT2 were major disappointments, the M3K and the X3 II are ok. im still out on the UTWS3, it didn't synergize well with my Blessing 2. 

I also find it very weird that they release products that either feel and look like you bought them in the dollar store or should be in a special velvet box and only handled with microfibre cloth.


----------



## Ichos

Such  Audio filters always affect the sound in a very subtle way that depending on material , headphone and hearing may not make an audible difference.
And the filters are embedded to the dac chip by ESS and not FiiO.


----------



## r31ya

SomeGuyDude said:


> The EQ and range thing I definitely am on board with, but y'all should hit the gym more often if you think this things heavy lol. If anything, one reason I like it a ton more than my ES100 is that it doesn't feel small and cheap.


Doubling on that range.

The connection sometimes stutter when i use it jogging as in it only separated by my body in between the phone and the btr.


----------



## sarkar1990

PeterMac said:


> ^ There are few things to improve BTR5, most important are:
> 
> - EQ support for LDAC !!!
> - lighter construction
> ...


Use wavelet and you have EQ over LDAC!


----------



## PeterMac

^this is not perfect solution, I prefer built in EQ in device memory, because I pair it with few devices also with PC. FiiO is a joke with this EQ for LDAC.


----------



## ilianto (Feb 9, 2021)

I tried the EQ in aptx mode and when you activate it, it's like a thick blanket falling over the sound and all presets suck... The sound is much cleaner without it. I don't know if it's a bad implementation of EQ but on every machine that I have tried with a built-in EQ it was crap.


----------



## PeterMac (Feb 9, 2021)

I'm using now EQ in LDAC with Qudelix 5K and it's perfect fine for boost a bass on earbuds for example I use it with VE Monks+, and nothing change in clarity of sound after EQ them on bass, 31, 63Hz.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

PeterMac said:


> ^this is not perfect solution, I prefer built in EQ in device memory, because I pair it with few devices also with PC. FiiO is a joke with this EQ for LDAC.



They're not alone, which is weird. Sony's headphones don't EQ over LDAC either, and that's Sony's codec. I'm wondering if there's something within LDAC itself.


----------



## megabigeye

ilianto said:


> I tried the EQ in aptx mode and when you activate it, it's like a thick blanket falling over the sound and all presets suck... The sound is much cleaner without it. I don't know if it's a bad implementation of EQ but on every machine that I have tried with a built-in EQ it was crap.


I think what you're hearing is "preamp" being applied.  When you switch the EQ on, the volume is lowered so that you don't get digital clipping.  Louder always sounds clearer, so when EQ is on and preamp is applied it sounds kinda muffled by comparison.  The original X5 did the same thing and it drove me nuts.

That being said, it does sound muffled to me, not just quieter...  But then again, the X5's always sounded muffled, too, until one day I was listening and thinking things sounded great, only to realize later that the EQ was still on.


----------



## carpler

I have been quite satisfied with my BTR5 for some time.
I like the sound I get with this little DAC / AMP, but I have very big problems with bluetooth.
I use the BTR5 with two devices: my main smartphone (an old Honor 8 Pro) and a smartphone that I use only as a music player (an old Samsung Galaxy A5 with a custom rom). Especially with the Honor (which only supports aptX HD) during audio playback there are frequent interruptions, even if smartphone and DAC are in the same jacket pocket!
With the Galaxy (which supports LDAC) the interruptions are much less, but still they are present every now and then.
Surely the Honor has never shone for the goodness of wireless connections, but I wonder if the BTR5 also has a point to improve in the bluetooth connection.


----------



## boodado (Feb 9, 2021)

I use my BTR5 with my OnePlus 6T and do not have issues with Bluetooth connectivity.  I can leave my phone on my dining room table and walk into my garage to get to the fridge and stay connected w/ LDAC.  Approx 15' (as crow flies) with 1.5 walls and kitchen fridge in between.  I think Bluetooth connectivity issues have a lot to do with phone and their transmitting capabilities and of course "wireless" congestion.

I have many of the various BT devices (BTR3 / ES100 / Shanling UP4 / BTR5 / Q5) and while EQ with LDAC would be great on the BTR5 - I find more often then not - I don't use it.  Kind of a purist in a sense.  I understand tailoring the music for your IEM / Headphones but is that not an artifact of the sound signature from the IEM / Headphones and not necessarily a "problem" because of the BTR5?  Yes I know - personal taste - I did not buy the BTR5 for the EQ.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

boodado said:


> I use my BTR5 with my OnePlus 6T and do not have issues with Bluetooth connectivity.  I can leave my phone on my dining room table and walk into my garage to get to the fridge and stay connected w/ LDAC.  Approx 15' (as crow flies) with 1.5 walls and kitchen fridge in between.  I think Bluetooth connectivity issues have a lot to do with phone and their transmitting capabilities and of course "wireless" congestion.
> 
> I have many of the various BT devices (BTR3 / ES100 / Shanling UP4 / BTR5 / Q5) and while EQ with LDAC would be great on the BTR5 - I find more often then not - I don't use it.  Kind of a purist in a sense.  I understand tailoring the music for your IEM / Headphones but is that not an artifact of the sound signature from the IEM / Headphones and not necessarily a "problem" because of the BTR5?  Yes I know - personal taste - I did not buy the BTR5 for the EQ.



As far as BT signal goes, mine's given me fits with a Pixel 4, which should theoretically be pretty burly with the ol' BT transmission. I just picked up an S21 Ultra so we'll see what changes.


----------



## megabigeye

boodado said:


> I use my BTR5 with my OnePlus 6T and do not have issues with Bluetooth connectivity.  I can leave my phone on my dining room table and walk into my garage to get to the fridge and stay connected w/ LDAC.  Approx 15' (as crow flies) with 1.5 walls and kitchen fridge in between.  I think Bluetooth connectivity issues have a lot to do with phone and their transmitting capabilities and of course "wireless" congestion.
> 
> I have many of the various BT devices (BTR3 / ES100 / Shanling UP4 / BTR5 / Q5) and while EQ with LDAC would be great on the BTR5 - I find more often then not - I don't use it.  Kind of a purist in a sense.  I understand tailoring the music for your IEM / Headphones but is that not an artifact of the sound signature from the IEM / Headphones and not necessarily a "problem" because of the BTR5?  Yes I know - personal taste - I did not buy the BTR5 for the EQ.


I have a Samsung S9 and if I leave my phone on the kitchen table and walk into the next room— about 10' as the crow flies, with only one wall— I'll get dropouts to the point that it's unlistenable.  Granted, I live in a fairly densely populated area (not anything like New York, though), so maybe that has something to do with it.
Heck, if I'm not standing still, I'll get dropouts if the BTR5 is in my front pocket and my phone is in the back pocket.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Suburban living here, no big crowds, not in an apartment building. I have about the same range with the S21. One wall, no closed doors, about 10' and it's done for. My other BT headsets (Jaybird Vista, Sony 1000XM3) let me go practically out to the back alley before they start cutting out.


----------



## boodado

Now if my body is in between the unit and my phone while in the other room it gets choppy.  My wall aren't all that thick - 1960's ranch and I live in unpopulated neighborhood...


----------



## DagsJT

Just received my BTR5 and thought I’d check the firmware. The device shows v2.1 but it appears the latest firmware to download is v2.0. Is that correct? Am I looking in the wrong place?


----------



## ilianto

DagsJT said:


> Just received my BTR5 and thought I’d check the firmware. The device shows v2.1 but it appears the latest firmware to download is v2.0. Is that correct? Am I looking in the wrong place?


I received mine a few days ago and I'm in 2.1 as well.


----------



## fsi22

carpler said:


> I have been quite satisfied with my BTR5 for some time.
> I like the sound I get with this little DAC / AMP, but I have very big problems with bluetooth.
> I use the BTR5 with two devices: my main smartphone (an old Honor 8 Pro) and a smartphone that I use only as a music player (an old Samsung Galaxy A5 with a custom rom). Especially with the Honor (which only supports aptX HD) during audio playback there are frequent interruptions, even if smartphone and DAC are in the same jacket pocket!
> With the Galaxy (which supports LDAC) the interruptions are much less, but still they are present every now and then.
> Surely the Honor has never shone for the goodness of wireless connections, but I wonder if the BTR5 also has a point to improve in the bluetooth connection.



I had an issue if I was paired to more than a single device. Would get interruptions. When I only had 1 device paired to it.  no issues. its almost like its trying to constantly switch between devices. Very annoying that there isn't a way to pick a device, I also have an ifi xcan and it has no issues if paired to multiple devices at once.


----------



## Polky74

Anyone knows why Amazon Music HD under win 10 see BTR5 only capable of 24/44.1 and not 24/192?


----------



## tudedude

I want to use this as a Bluetooth dac receiver for a Schiit amp. How should I go about adjusting the volume on the btr-5? Set it to max and low gain?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Polky74 said:


> Anyone knows why Amazon Music HD under win 10 see BTR5 only capable of 24/44.1 and not 24/192?


Because there's no exclusive mode setting for the BTR5, i guess.
What's your settings on the Win 10 mixer?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Polky74 said:


> Anyone knows why Amazon Music HD under win 10 see BTR5 only capable of 24/44.1 and not 24/192?



Just change it to 24/192 in the Windows settings. I'm using Amazon right now and going over USB to Win10:


----------



## Polky74

In the options there isn't 24/192 and if i set 16/192 the speed of the music slow down...


----------



## Lowtech Trevor

BenKatz said:


> Not in line with what the conversation is on about at the moment, but I'd like to throw in my 2 cents about the device:
> 
> It's an excellent bt dac/amp, best on the market, there's no surprise there. Besides excellent sound quality for its category, the fact that it also accepts cables with in-line mics is fantastic especially since if the in line remote has volume control, it will also work for volume/track skipping.
> 
> ...


Which cooper cable with inline MIc did you purchase?  Thanks


----------



## Lowtech Trevor

SomeGuyDude said:


> Just change it to 24/192 in the Windows settings. I'm using Amazon right now and going over USB to Win10:


I’ve been using it on my iPhone streaming Tidal HD.  So far I haven’t had anything higher than 96K.  DO you get a higher rate through your computer?


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Feb 16, 2021)

Lowtech Trevor said:


> I’ve been using it on my iPhone streaming Tidal HD.  So far I haven’t had anything higher than 96K.  DO you get a higher rate through your computer?



Tidal caps at 96K and that's only for the Masters files.


----------



## Knightsfan11

Can this be used in car sound systems? Guessing the sound systems aux cable plugs into the BTR5??


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Yes.
The BTR5 has a "car mode" for that purpose.
That means it'll start up automatically when the attached usb charging cable is getting power input from the car.


----------



## Saaq

has anyone used these with the Kbear belive? is it enough to drive those or will i need to get something with more power.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Saaq said:


> has anyone used these with the Kbear belive? is it enough to drive those or will i need to get something with more power.



Absolutely enough, however the KBear balanced cable is kinda necessary. The BTR5's single-ended output doesn't push as much juice. The Believe will sound AMAZING through it, though.


----------



## Saaq

SomeGuyDude said:


> Absolutely enough, however the KBear balanced cable is kinda necessary. The BTR5's single-ended output doesn't push as much juice. The Believe will sound AMAZING through it, though.


so i would need to get a 2.5m balanced cable with the btr5? Is it only 2.5mm that is balanced? sorry kind of new to all this


----------



## SenorChang8

Saaq said:


> so i would need to get a 2.5m balanced cable with the btr5? Is it only 2.5mm that is balanced? sorry kind of new to all this


The BTR5 only has 2.5mm balanced. There’s also 4.4mm balanced too available in other equipment.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Saaq said:


> so i would need to get a 2.5m balanced cable with the btr5? Is it only 2.5mm that is balanced? sorry kind of new to all this



That's correct. KBear has a 2.5mm balanced cable that's pretty cheap ($20 I think?) that works perfectly.


----------



## Polky74

SenorChang8 said:


> The BTR5 only has 2.5mm balanced. There’s also 4.4mm balanced too available in other equipment.


The BTR5 has two output a 3,5mm single ended and a 2,5mm balanced that double the power output at 240 mw for each canal enaugh to drive Kbear Believe and also the Tin P1 (great iem both)


----------



## Chris Kaoss

tudedude said:


> I want to use this as a Bluetooth dac receiver for a Schiit amp. How should I go about adjusting the volume on the btr-5? Set it to max and low gain?


I'd set it to level 50/60 on high gain.
Ime, the BTR5 tends to "clip" when maxed out.
But maybe it's just on me.

If you need more "pre-gain" step up from there.


----------



## tudedude

Chris Kaoss said:


> I'd set it to level 50/60 on high gain.
> Ime, the BTR5 tends to "clip" when maxed out.
> But maybe it's just on me.
> 
> If you need more "pre-gain" step up from there.


ok I'll try that thanks.


----------



## skreddy

So I can get 96k to work on my PC but through my phone the same track shows up as 48k. Any idea why this could be ? Could it be the USB cable ?


----------



## Ichos

Some kind of down sampling is performed by the phone / playback software.


----------



## skreddy (Feb 26, 2021)

Just tried USB Audio player and same thing. It says the source is 96khz but the dac is 48khz.

Edit: NVM that was Tidal without purchasing MQA decoding. Works with FLAC files on phone.


----------



## FiiO

skreddy said:


> Just tried USB Audio player and same thing. It says the source is 96khz but the dac is 48khz.
> 
> Edit: NVM that was Tidal without purchasing MQA decoding. Works with FLAC files on phone.


Ok, thanks for the kind feedback.

Best regards


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a fun yet I hope informative video about the case ddHifi makes for BTR5!  

Their cases are usually made from leather and altough they are not part of FiiO, they surely fit their products to make your experience with FiiO products even better


----------



## PTDennis

@FiiO any news on a possible firmware update using Mac or an iPhone? I am stuck with an old Firmware. I already tried the alternative tutorial you suggest from the support forum but to be honest, it is quite complicated and it did not worked for me. It does not even work using a virtualization software like Parallels! To be honest, this makes no sense! Specially now, during the pandemic, where we cannot use other persons computer....


----------



## ClieOS (Mar 8, 2021)

PTDennis said:


> @FiiO any news on a possible firmware update using Mac or an iPhone? I am stuck with an old Firmware. I already tried the alternative tutorial you suggest from the support forum but to be honest, it is quite complicated and it did not worked for me. It does not even work using a virtualization software like Parallels! To be honest, this makes no sense! Specially now, during the pandemic, where we cannot use other persons computer....



I won't hold my breadth on it ever happens.

Qualcomm is not in particularly good terms with Apple historically and therefore they almost never release any SDK kit that supports firmware update from an Apple device. To enable such update, company that used Qualcomm chips need to develop the required software from the ground up by themselves - so unless a company already have some pretty awesome Mac / iOS software engineer in house, chance are you will never see any of such update tool being released as hiring an Mac / iOS developer is neither cheap nor cost effective unless your customer base is largely in the Apple camp. For most small companies that use Qualcomm chip, they have to rely on the SDK tool Qualcomm provided for bugfix and thus limited to almost Windows / Android only.


----------



## LoryWiv

Question about DAC to DSD256 capability: When I connect my BTR5 to PC via USB with the installed driver, the only options shown in my HQPlayer menus to select iiO driver is Wasapi at either 2.8 (DSD64) or 5.6 (DSD128). What am I missing, i.e. - how does one get it to work with ASIO (or Wasapi) at 11.2 (DSD256)?

Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

PTDennis said:


> @FiiO any news on a possible firmware update using Mac or an iPhone? I am stuck with an old Firmware. I already tried the alternative tutorial you suggest from the support forum but to be honest, it is quite complicated and it did not worked for me. It does not even work using a virtualization software like Parallels! To be honest, this makes no sense! Specially now, during the pandemic, where we cannot use other persons computer....


Sorry that the chip supplier doesn't provide the tool for updating the firmware in MAC for us currently. So it is out of our ability to provide the firmware update for MAC now. 

You have read this experience shared by other user or not? Can this help: http://www.fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=44483&extra=page=1 

Or if you buy the BTR5 from the local seller, cam the seller help about this? 

Best regards


----------



## Kmannth

So...

  I recently  acquired  a new btr5.  I like it when it works. 

   I mostly use it for bluetooth and the trouble starts when I plug into my pc to charge it.

   After being in usb mode it won't go back to bt mode unless I leave it overnight.   After disconnecting from the pc and powering it  will come on and quickly say "off" and shutdown.  

Holding the power button for 10 seconds does not help and the multifunction  button often does nothing. 

If I leave it sit overnight bt will start working again the next day but the battery will be low again.  Not a great situation for me.   

Also the unit report the version  is 2.1.


Any suggestions?


----------



## ilianto

Kmannth said:


> So...
> 
> I recently  acquired  a new btr5.  I like it when it works.
> 
> ...


I had trouble with v2.1 as well. Maybe that's why it's not officially out for updates. Only new units come with it. I'd go ahead and download the firmware updater and v2.0 and I would downgrade.


----------



## Kmannth

ilianto said:


> I had trouble with v2.1 as well. Maybe that's why it's not officially out for updates. Only new units come with it. I'd go ahead and download the firmware updater and v2.0 and I would downgrade.


I move to v 2.0 this afternoon.  So far it seems to work as expected now.    Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## FiiO

Kmannth said:


> So...
> 
> I recently  acquired  a new btr5.  I like it when it works.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Thanks for your feedback. We will report to the tech team for checking about that as well. You were charging the BTR5 in power on or off status when the issue happens?

Best regards


----------



## Kmannth

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Thanks for your feedback. We will report to the tech team for checking about that as well. You were charging the BTR5 in power on or off status when the issue happens?
> 
> Best regards


 As far as I know it was set for power on.   I have never switched it off. 

The 2.0 fw seems to still be working well for me.


----------



## BenKatz

Hello 
Just got a BTR5 and i'm wondering if everyone has an issue with bad bt stability.

I get constant cutouts unless the devices are rather close to each other (phone and btr5) and not in motion. Whenever I try to go outside, and keep my btr5 in the right pocket and the phone in the left pocket (and viceversa, lol), I get CONSTANT cutouts, unlistenable. Same thing happens if I move past 3 meters from the device, especially in another room.

I'm using it with my Xperia 1 mark2 via LDAC with priority on signal stability, but even if I force it on APTX HD/APTX, it's mostly the same. I have to mention that I've used my phone with a ton of bluetooth headphones/adapters and speakers and I never experience cutouts. the BTR5 is also updated to the latest version.

Is this normal -does the BTR5 have horrible signal strength? Or is my device a "lemon" ?


----------



## ilianto

Smells like lemon...


----------



## tudedude

BenKatz said:


> Hello
> Just got a BTR5 and i'm wondering if everyone has an issue with bad bt stability.
> 
> I get constant cutouts unless the devices are rather close to each other (phone and btr5) and not in motion. Whenever I try to go outside, and keep my btr5 in the right pocket and the phone in the left pocket (and viceversa, lol), I get CONSTANT cutouts, unlistenable. Same thing happens if I move past 3 meters from the device, especially in another room.
> ...


are other bluetooth devices around you that are paired to your phone or BTR on? If so try turning their bluetooth off. I get way better reception than you are, but I do sometimes notice breakup or static when another paired device is on.


----------



## BenKatz

tudedude said:


> are other bluetooth devices around you that are paired to your phone or BTR on? If so try turning their bluetooth off. I get way better reception than you are, but I do sometimes notice breakup or static when another paired device is on.



Nope, no other BT devices. The only BT device I ever use in the house is one pair of BT headphones/adapter, paired to either my phone or laptop. As stated before, I've used a multitude of BT devices with my phone, no issues. Right now I'm actually using fiio's UTWS3 bt adapter, no issues. I've had sony's LDAC bt headphones - no cutouts. So I can safely say I eliminated interference, codec issues, or my phone. The biggest issue is on the go, I find it incredible that if i keep the btr5 and phone in separate pockets, the cutouts are MASSIVE. I basically need to keep them both next to each other in the same pocket to get a cutout-free experience.

Anyone else has issues, especially when using on the go (not in the car, but rather when walking around/running/doing sports) ?


----------



## LoryWiv

BenKatz said:


> Nope, no other BT devices. The only BT device I ever use in the house is one pair of BT headphones/adapter, paired to either my phone or laptop. As stated before, I've used a multitude of BT devices with my phone, no issues. Right now I'm actually using fiio's UTWS3 bt adapter, no issues. I've had sony's LDAC bt headphones - no cutouts. So I can safely say I eliminated interference, codec issues, or my phone. The biggest issue is on the go, I find it incredible that if i keep the btr5 and phone in separate pockets, the cutouts are MASSIVE. I basically need to keep them both next to each other in the same pocket to get a cutout-free experience.
> 
> Anyone else has issues, especially when using on the go (not in the car, but rather when walking around/running/doing sports) ?


Hi @BenKatz. One thing that I have found is that one's body can diminish signal / BT range quite a lot. If I clip the BTR5 on my shirt and walk upstairs with the source downstairs, it cuts out while walking, stabilizes when I stop. However, if I hold the BTR5 in my hand while walking up stairs, not flush against my body, NO cutouts. I suspect there is less blocking the receiving antenna when in hand versus clipped against chest or in a pocket.

Bottom line: I love this device, sound is superb, and with a little trial and error mine is now usable in most situations without many cutouts, I don't exercise with it, but if I did I'd either keep in same pocket as source or try an arm sleeve that holds the BTR5 away from your body a bit. If all else fails, perhaps return for a replacement unit on possibility it is a lemon after all..

Good luck!


----------



## vLEGIONv

Is this still the best bang for your buck feature/price/performance portable amp/dac/BT reciever?


----------



## BenKatz

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @BenKatz. One thing that I have found is that one's body can diminish signal / BT range quite a lot. If I clip the BTR5 on my shirt and walk upstairs with the source downstairs, it cuts out while walking, stabilizes when I stop. However, if I hold the BTR5 in my hand while walking up stairs, not flush against my body, NO cutouts. I suspect there is less blocking the receiving antenna when in hand versus clipped against chest or in a pocket.
> 
> Bottom line: I love this device, sound is superb, and with a little trial and error mine is now usable in most situations without many cutouts, I don't exercise with it, but if I did I'd either keep in same pocket as source or try an arm sleeve that holds the BTR5 away from your body a bit. If all else fails, perhaps return for a replacement unit on possibility it is a lemon after all..
> 
> Good luck!



Yeah, that sounds about right.


----------



## footplate

LoryWiv said:


> Hi @BenKatz. One thing that I have found is that one's body can diminish signal / BT range quite a lot. If I clip the BTR5 on my shirt and walk upstairs with the source downstairs, it cuts out while walking, stabilizes when I stop. However, if I hold the BTR5 in my hand while walking up stairs, not flush against my body, NO cutouts. I suspect there is less blocking the receiving antenna when in hand versus clipped against chest or in a pocket.
> 
> Bottom line: I love this device, sound is superb, and with a little trial and error mine is now usable in most situations without many cutouts, I don't exercise with it, but if I did I'd either keep in same pocket as source or try an arm sleeve that holds the BTR5 away from your body a bit. If all else fails, perhaps return for a replacement unit on possibility it is a lemon after all..
> 
> Good luck!


I have uBTR, BTR3K, and BTR5.  It seems counter-intuitive to me, but the top-of-the range BTR5 has the worst BT reception of the three (although it is ahead in other areas).


----------



## rlw6534

vLEGIONv said:


> Is this still the best bang for your buck feature/price/performance portable amp/dac/BT reciever?



I think you would have to include the Qudelix 5K in that discussion.


----------



## vLEGIONv

rlw6534 said:


> I think you would have to include the Qudelix 5K in that discussion.


do you have personal experience? been contemplating picking up the BTR5. The 5k is now on my radar.


----------



## LoryWiv (Mar 24, 2021)

BTR5 supports DSD256. DSD128 is my preferred "go to" mode. Qudelix 5K USB DAC doesn't support DSD. at all.


----------



## rlw6534

vLEGIONv said:


> do you have personal experience? been contemplating picking up the BTR5. The 5k is now on my radar.



Yes, I have and use both.  I wasn't trying to influence you either way.  I just thought you should know that the 5K exists and is well regarded.   There are threads for both in the forum to research, of course.  Your specific needs should help you decide which is best for you.  They are both excellent for the price and features.


----------



## Sukotto85

I've recently bought the BTR5. In USB mode I am only getting just over 3 and a half hours of battery life, this is at low gain and around 11-13 on the volume. Surely this is not nornmal?


----------



## Julius Decimus

Sukotto85 said:


> I've recently bought the BTR5. In USB mode I am only getting just over 3 and a half hours of battery life, this is at low gain and around 11-13 on the volume. Surely this is not nornmal?


No, it is not.

Normal is 6-8 hours. 

Though are you using the balanced (where it says bal. on the top of the unit) headphone output ? If so it will have less battery life compared to single ended (the other one). 

Other than replacing the battery there is not much you can do i think..... Using bluetooth with codec that transfers less data (aptX uses less, LDAC most) might improve the battery life, though i am sure the device sounds better wired, so.....use the single ended headphone output or change the battery i think.

The others might give you better advice, this is just my opinion.


----------



## Sukotto85

I am indeed using it in balanced. I have noticed that the battery life is much better via bluetooth, which I didn't expect. I think I would've preferred for the unit to bit a little bit bigger, but with a better battry life.


----------



## ilianto

Sukotto85 said:


> I am indeed using it in balanced. I have noticed that the battery life is much better via bluetooth, which I didn't expect. I think I would've preferred for the unit to bit a little bit bigger, but with a better battry life.


In balanced it uses both DACs so it should use more power as well... Can you understand differences between balanced and unbalanced?


----------



## carlosivanem

Hi Guys,

Currently I am looking for a way to watch TV and casually play videogames while my girlfriend works, and I am trying to decide if I should use my current headphones (Shure SRH-1540) with a BTR5 or go with the THX Pandas. 

I know that for the use that I would mostly give them basically some cheap bluetooth adaptor would do, but I don't want to rule out listening to music with the solution that I come up with ie., the BTR5 or the Pandas.


----------



## Ichos

carlosivanem said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Currently I am looking for a way to watch TV and casually play videogames while my girlfriend works, and I am trying to decide if I should use my current headphones (Shure SRH-1540) with a BTR5 or go with the THX Pandas.
> 
> I know that for the use that I would mostly give them basically some cheap bluetooth adaptor would do, but I don't want to rule out listening to music with the solution that I come up with ie., the BTR5 or the Pandas.


How are you going to connect the TV with the BTR5?


----------



## rlw6534

carlosivanem said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Currently I am looking for a way to watch TV and casually play videogames while my girlfriend works, and I am trying to decide if I should use my current headphones (Shure SRH-1540) with a BTR5 or go with the THX Pandas.
> 
> I know that for the use that I would mostly give them basically some cheap bluetooth adaptor would do, but I don't want to rule out listening to music with the solution that I come up with ie., the BTR5 or the Pandas.



You'll want something with AptX ll or AptX Adaptive to minimize latency with video if possible.   I use my BTR5 specifically with video (AptX ll) for that reason.   Obviously for audio, you'll want LDAC.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Apr 7, 2021)

Ichos said:


> How are you going to connect the TV with the BTR5?


Like i do, with this

https://www.amazon.com/TaoTronics-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Receiver-Wireless/dp/B083TF9NK8

Works flawlessly and is great with the SEM5 or D9200 to not disturb anyone. 

Or the TV is equipped with bluetooth and lipsync tech.


----------



## Ichos

Chris Kaoss said:


> Like i do, with this
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/TaoTronics-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Receiver-Wireless/dp/B083TF9NK8
> 
> ...


So I guess that he can use the BTR5.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Ichos said:


> So I guess that he can use the BTR5.


For watching tv it's great, but for video gaming the delay is to much, even with aptx-LL.
It was very noticable in comparison to the headphones on the R28 simultaneously.


----------



## carlosivanem (Apr 8, 2021)

rlw6534 said:


> You'll want something with AptX ll or AptX Adaptive to minimize latency with video if possible.   I use my BTR5 specifically with video (AptX ll) for that reason.   Obviously for audio, you'll want LDAC.



Duly noted, in case that I go for a BT device, the BTR5 is on the top of my list  



Ichos said:


> How are you going to connect the TV with the BTR5?



I've got a Samsung 55" TU7000, which as per the specs supports Bluetooth 4.2, so I assumed that it would be just a matter of synching it with any device, BTR5/Headphones...



			
				Chriss Kaoss said:
			
		

> For watching tv it's great, but for video gaming the delay is to much, even with aptx-LL.
> It was very noticable in comparison to the headphones on the R28 simultaneously.



You make a very good poing about the delay, I had not really considered it because I thought that it would only make a real difference in competitive gaming which I won't even pretend to be half capable of trying. 

For what I am seeingI was oversimplifying the solution, however I have not found a site or thread where I can read about it, do you have any suggestions? 

Thanks


----------



## Chris Kaoss

carlosivanem said:


> Duly noted, in case that I go for a BT device, the BTR5 is on the top of my list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is a "short" lesson about bluetooth. ^^

It's from 2019.

https://habr.com/en/post/456182/


----------



## Deceneu808

Any news on a possible BTR7 ?


----------



## Devodonaldson

carlosivanem said:


> Duly noted, in case that I go for a BT device, the BTR5 is on the top of my list
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have a proper aptx LL transmitter there should be no Noticeable latency. I use the btr5 will the a homespot USB c transmitter with my Nintendo switch, PlayStation 4, and cell phone. There is absolutely no Noticeable lag and this is while playing fps and other action games. Aptx LL is only active if you are also using an aptx LL transmitter, otherwise you are using regular aptx which as you know is no good for gaming


----------



## fsi22 (Apr 10, 2021)

Devodonaldson said:


> If you have a proper aptx LL transmitter there should be no Noticeable latency. I use the btr5 will the a homespot USB c transmitter with my Nintendo switch, PlayStation 4, and cell phone. There is absolutely no Noticeable lag and this is while playing fps and other action games. Aptx LL is only active if you are also using an aptx LL transmitter, otherwise you are using regular aptx which as you know is no good for gaming



Yup, same here. I've tested it by turning volume up on and tv and headphone and there was no sync issues. Makes no difference whether gaming or movie watching. av sync is about 40 ms which is exceptional.

And yes you need an aptx ll transmitter. There are many cheap and small options available. Avantree Oasis is probably the most popular.


----------



## rlw6534

fsi22 said:


> Yup, same here. I've tested it by turning volume up on and tv and headphone and there was no sync issues. Makes no difference whether gaming or movie watching. av sync is about 40 ms which is exceptional.
> 
> And yes you need an aptx ll transmitter. There are many cheap and small options available. Avantree Oasis is probably the most popular.



I use the Sennheiser BT T100 with my AV setup (using aptX-LL) with no issues.  Unfortunately none of these transmitters support LDAC for pure audio use (although I would not be using my AV setup for that anyway...).


----------



## LoryWiv

fsi22 said:


> Yup, same here. I've tested it by turning volume up on and tv and headphone and there was no sync issues. Makes no difference whether gaming or movie watching. av sync is about 40 ms which is exceptional.
> 
> And yes you need an aptx ll transmitter. There are many cheap and small options available. Avantree Oasis is probably the most popular.


I use 1Mii B03Pro, very satisfied.


----------



## n00b

I’m pretty interested in trying one of these, but I don’t think I have the right use case for it. I have an iPhone SE 2016 (so, lightning and 3.5mm output), Sony ZX507 (already has balanced output), Activo CT10 (another android-based DAP), an iBasso DC03 for my iPad and MacBook, and a lightning-3.5mm dongle. I listen on Blessing2usks (I have 4.4mm bal and 3.5mm se cables), as well as Sony MDR-1AM2s (4.4mm and 3.5 also).

Given the BTR5 doesn’t play elegantly with iPhones, and it uses a 2.5mm bal output instead of 4.4mm, there’s no real reason to try picking this up for my setup right? I see it so often recommended but I can’t really find a good use case for my situation, would love to hear some opinions/enabling from anyone with a similar setup. Thanks!


----------



## rlw6534

n00b said:


> I’m pretty interested in trying one of these, but I don’t think I have the right use case for it. I have an iPhone SE 2016 (so, lightning and 3.5mm output), Sony ZX507 (already has balanced output), Activo CT10 (another android-based DAP), an iBasso DC03 for my iPad and MacBook, and a lightning-3.5mm dongle. I listen on Blessing2usks (I have 4.4mm bal and 3.5mm se cables), as well as Sony MDR-1AM2s (4.4mm and 3.5 also).
> 
> Given the BTR5 doesn’t play elegantly with iPhones, and it uses a 2.5mm bal output instead of 4.4mm, there’s no real reason to try picking this up for my setup right? I see it so often recommended but I can’t really find a good use case for my situation, would love to hear some opinions/enabling from anyone with a similar setup. Thanks!



If you have no need for BT wireless, it certainly looks like you have the bases covered.  My primary use for the BTR5 is late night TV watching using aptX LL.   Everything else is nice to have.  I actually use AirPods Pro with my iPhone and MacBook fairly often.


----------



## Sukotto85 (Apr 18, 2021)

ilianto said:


> In balanced it uses both DACs so it should use more power as well... Can you understand differences between balanced and unbalanced?


I will fully charge the device and I will see how long it lasts unbalanced.

After a few more weeks with the BTR5, the battery life just seems to be getting worse and worse. When I connect it via bluethoth, the battery life jumps up by 20%. Around every 30-45 minutes I am losing 20% battery life. Given that this is a portable device, I would say this is not enough for daily use.


----------



## Sukotto85

Currently testing the differences between balanced and unbalanced - I will report back with the results.


----------



## LoryWiv

Sukotto85 said:


> I will fully charge the device and I will see how long it lasts unbalanced.
> 
> After a few more weeks with the BTR5, the battery life just seems to be getting worse and worse. When I connect it via bluethoth, the battery life jumps up by 20%. Around every 30-45 minutes I am losing 20% battery life. Given that this is a portable device, I would say this is not enough for daily use.


I am getting around 6-7 hours in  mixed usage connected to PC as a DAC (it doesn't seem to charge in this scenario) and BT. all with 2.5mm out.


----------



## quimbo

LoryWiv said:


> I am getting around 6-7 hours in  mixed usage connected to PC as a DAC (it doesn't seem to charge in this scenario) and BT. all with 2.5mm out.


I get between 6 and 7 hours when using outside doing yard work, LDAC from phone, 2.5 mm out.   Happy with that as it is the only time I use this set up and I have a btr3 backup for the long spring and fall days.


----------



## candysound

Hi guys , was looking into getting something portable for convenience and saw the btr5 but then I came across this video showing how buggy the app is.


Was this rectified by fiio or is still the same ?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've never had any issues with the app TBH. I also think the BTR5 sounds more lively.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

What i can say is:
Once you configured the app, forget about it and just hit the play button.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Also true, I honestly can't remember the last time I actually opened the app lol


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Same here. ^^

"Set and forget."


----------



## jsmiller58

SomeGuyDude said:


> Also true, I honestly can't remember the last time I actually opened the app lol


I agree, I also never really have a reason to open the BTR5 app!  But, that is also due, in part, to how relatively useless the BTR5 app is after you have configured the BTR5.  The app for the Qudelix 5K on the other hand is infinitely more useful and I do find reasons to open it and play with settings.  This is not an X BT receiver is better than Y BT receiver comment, but is a 5K app has more useful functionality than the BTR5 app has comment...


----------



## LoryWiv

SomeGuyDude said:


> Also true, I honestly can't remember the last time I actually opened the app lol


I did add some 2nd order harmonics through the app to add a bit more musicality, if you believe in such things. I've stayed with it since without further changes and enjoy the BTR5 immensely with my IEM's.


----------



## Arghavan

Hey guys. Can I use BTR5 as a DAC and output to a desktop Amp with a 3.5mm to RCA cable like this?


Should I max the volume then on high gain or?


----------



## Ichos

At high gain it should output 2V so you should max it.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (May 14, 2021)

Arghavan said:


> Hey guys. Can I use BTR5 as a DAC and output to a desktop Amp with a 3.5mm to RCA cable like this?
> 
> Should I max the volume then on high gain or?


Hard to tell.

PO on 32ohm is 1.6V and 1.8V (no load).





I'd set it to 55 and have a look how it goes on further increase.

It's not the best way to use the BTR5, i think.
Even my V30 on HIM outputs 2V, which should be a better match for your use case.
Never thought about using the BTR5 as a pre myself.


----------



## boodado

Hey FIIO has a strictly Bluetooth control app - you do not need the bloated cr-app as in the video.  Look up FIIO control in the Google app store.  I have had no issues with it - with the understanding it is not trying to be a Radsone ES100 app.  It does the basics.


----------



## soumyajit92 (May 17, 2021)

Hi guys, why does audio over LDAC sounds so bad compared to USB connection on my btr5? Is it android messing with signal processing? Isn't btr5 supposed to process the signal? The reason i have my doubt is that whatever processing i am making through my phone (hiby mseb or eq using wavelet, just to check. they are left at default otherwise) is being reflected over bluetooth. So wondering if android's audio processing,which it is notorious for, is really messing with the quality before sending it over to the dac? A few people in a fb group told me that ldac and sound over usb should sound almost the same but there's a huge gap between the two using my phone. So is it my phone or my device is faulty?

PS: I know usb ll always sound better than wireless but the gap shouldnt be this big on btr5 which is famous for it's BT quality or so i had heard. What am i missing?


----------



## ilianto

That's weird... I can hear differences between Tidal and Deezer in HiFi, 320 mp3s, flac and CD, Tidal and CD but can't hear any difference between LDAC and USB with BTR5...


----------



## soumyajit92

ilianto said:


> That's weird... I can hear differences between Tidal and Deezer in HiFi, 320 mp3s, flac and CD, Tidal and CD but can't hear any difference between LDAC and USB with BTR5...


which phone are u using? and app?


----------



## Muddy Walter

check your LDAC setting in developer options - depending on your phone & android version, you may be able to fix the rate at 990 (best) or at least 660


----------



## ilianto

soumyajit92 said:


> which phone are u using? and app?


Pixel 3a and Deezer


----------



## Deceneu808

ilianto said:


> Pixel 3a and Deezer


Go to settings > System > Developer options and under networking you will find (when connected to BTR5) Bluetooth Audio Codec, Bluetooth Audio Sample Rate & Bluetooth Audio Bits Per Sample.


----------



## r31ya

candysound said:


> Hi guys , was looking into getting something portable for convenience and saw the btr5 but then I came across this video showing how buggy the app is.
> 
> 
> Was this rectified by fiio or is still the same ?



I barely use the app.
It connected through Android interface, i can see the basic data from the tiny screen, and do basic control from the side button.


----------



## soumyajit92

Deceneu808 said:


> Go to settings > System > Developer options and under networking you will find (when connected to BTR5) Bluetooth Audio Codec, Bluetooth Audio Sample Rate & Bluetooth Audio Bits Per Sample.


all done, still sounds just as good as my phone which is very inferior when compared to ipad/mac output. But when using usb it beats both mac and ipad handily. Theres much more dynamics, slam, tighter bass, nuances etc etc ... not getting those over ldac. Thought sound over BT ll be better than my ipad/mac output, guess i was wrong. No complaints with usb though.


----------



## shootertwist (May 19, 2021)

With apple set to have lossless I’m thinking of getting this one or the dragonfly red for my iphone 12 pro max… but i’m leaning towards the fiio since it has a bluetooth and wired option. I’m not really a technical person so i figured I’d ask here, using a cck and a usb c cable to connect the btr5, it will function the same as dragonfly red? Which is technically better in terms of decoding lossless files? Thanks in advance 
I used to have a Dragonfly red a couple of years ago that’s why i prefer the btr5 so i can try out something new if they function essentially the same via wired using the necessary cables… thanks in advance for any advice 

just to add this is the one i read regarding apple’s upcoming lossless music:
“Apple Music’s lossless audio starts at CD quality, which is 16 bit at 44.1 kHz, and goes up to 24 bit at 48 kHz natively on Apple devices. It tops out at 24 bit at 192 kHz.”

so its 24bit and 192khz, can the btr5 or the dragonfly red decode that? Thanks


----------



## rlw6534 (May 19, 2021)

shootertwist said:


> With apple set to have lossless I’m thinking of getting this one or the dragonfly red for my iphone 12 pro max… but i’m leaning towards the fiio since it has a bluetooth and wired option. I’m not really a technical person so i figured I’d ask here, using a cck and a usb c cable to connect the btr5, it will function the same as dragonfly red? Which is technically better in terms of decoding lossless files? Thanks in advance
> I used to have a Dragonfly red a couple of years ago that’s why i prefer the btr5 so i can try out something new if they function essentially the same via wired using the necessary cables… thanks in advance for any advice
> 
> just to add this is the one i read regarding apple’s upcoming lossless music:
> ...



The Dragonfly tops out at 24/96.   The BTR5 can go all the way to 32/384 and supports native DSD256.  The BTR5 works fine with the CCK and USB-C cable.  Fiio also recently released a short cable (LT-LT1) that doesn't require the CCK.


----------



## Sebasistan

So I got this thing as a strictly IEM USB DAC/AMP since my desktop setups are not suited for use with IEMs. And what can I say, as such it works pretty well. It's way smaller than I expected. I'm still taking it through the motions. Sounds pretty great with the Moondrop Starfield. I'm waiting for a 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable to use with my beloved TRI I3. I don't foresee using this on the go though, simply because I have too many DAPs to have any real use for this. 

Stupid question: 
So this thing can be connected to several BT devices. But I guess that means BT in, not out, correct? I was wondering if I can connect this to a PC with USB and use it as a BT transmitter to connect to a BT speaker. I guess that's not how this thing works (and doesn't really matter if it doesn't...)


----------



## LoryWiv

Sebasistan said:


> So I got this thing as a strictly IEM USB DAC/AMP since my desktop setups are not suited for use with IEMs. And what can I say, as such it works pretty well. It's way smaller than I expected. I'm still taking it through the motions. Sounds pretty great with the Moondrop Starfield. I'm waiting for a 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable to use with my beloved TRI I3. I don't foresee using this on the go though, simply because I have too many DAPs to have any real use for this.
> 
> Stupid question:
> So this thing can be connected to several BT devices. But I guess that means BT in, not out, correct? I was wondering if I can connect this to a PC with USB and use it as a BT transmitter to connect to a BT speaker. I guess that's not how this thing works (and doesn't really matter if it doesn't...)


It's a BT receiver, not transmitter. To send music bluetooth from my PC to BT speakers (or to the BTR5, for that matter) i use 1Mii B03Pro.


----------



## FiiO

Sebasistan said:


> So I got this thing as a strictly IEM USB DAC/AMP since my desktop setups are not suited for use with IEMs. And what can I say, as such it works pretty well. It's way smaller than I expected. I'm still taking it through the motions. Sounds pretty great with the Moondrop Starfield. I'm waiting for a 2.5mm balanced MMCX cable to use with my beloved TRI I3. I don't foresee using this on the go though, simply because I have too many DAPs to have any real use for this.
> 
> Stupid question:
> So this thing can be connected to several BT devices. But I guess that means BT in, not out, correct? I was wondering if I can connect this to a PC with USB and use it as a BT transmitter to connect to a BT speaker. I guess that's not how this thing works (and doesn't really matter if it doesn't...)


Dear friend,

It is a Bluetooth receiver so it could not be used as BT transmitter. If you would like to find a product which support BT output when connecting to the PC via USB, you could check whether our BTA30 meet your need?

Best regards


----------



## Lolito

where can i find what each EQ profile does, or the curve, other than ear? thanks!!


----------



## FiiO

Lolito said:


> where can i find what each EQ profile does, or the curve, other than ear? thanks!!


Dear friend,

The filter is owned by the chip. And the chip supplier hasn't provided official instruction of the filter. 

Here is some thinking shared by other user, for your reference:

APOD1 Apodizing fast roll-off filter type 1: Version of Linear phase fast roll-off filter optimized to improve pre-ringing.

APOD2 Apodizing fast roll-off filter type 2:Version of Minimum phase fast roll-off filter optimized to improve pre-ringing

HYBR F Hybrid fast roll-off filter: Combination of Linear-phase and Minimum-phase. Fast transient attack, strong punchy bass, crisphighs.

BRICK Brick wall filter: On of the earliest designs, intended for highest suppression possible,with high delay and pre-ringing.Linear phase, crisp clean highs

FAST Fast roll-off filter: Most Common filter with clean suppression and high rejection, best for music with high transients. Provides crisp clean highs

SLOW Slow roll-off filter: Low group-delay and symmetrical inputs response. Less ringing then Linear-phase fast roll-off. Punchier bass than LPFR, with clean highs 

MINI Minimum phase fast roll-off filter: Minimal Pre- Ringing, preferred for Imaging and soundstage. No aliasing in frequency domain. Stronger bass than Linear Phase,clean highs

MINI S Minimum phase slow roll-off filter: Non-Symetrical filter designed to minimize pre-ringing. Strong punchy bass with good transient attacks

Best regards


----------



## Hamlap

Chiaroscur0 said:


> Do you guy think the btr5 could drive a zmf Eikon/Verite sufficiently? I'm loving it so far and I've mostly used it for iems but I plan to get one if not both of those and I'd prefer to stick to one device in the long run.


Not sure if someone answered this already, but I'm trying this atm.

Even unbalanced, it works fine. Perfect hearing levels, even a bit to much.

Can try balanced tomorrow, when my 4.4-2.5 adapter arrives.


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Jun 10, 2021)

Hi guys.

After a request on another thread

Have had a listen to both, the Mojo and the BTR5 as pre's.

Chain was Tidal exclusive mode on Surface Pro 7 > USB to Mojo/BTR5 > 3.5 to RCA cable > Audio GD R28 > XLR out to the Quad Era-1.

Mojo on Line out (3V)
BTR5 on H-gain at Volume level 60/60

First of all, what a pleasure to listen to both.  

Volume on the R28 is set to my preferred listening levels in both cases.
Level matched by ear.

Mojo -> R28: Volume level at 65 out of 99, which is about 7.5% power output of the R28.

BTR5 -> R28:  Volume level 75 out of 99, which is about 16.5% power output of the R28.

My guess is that the BTR5 puts out around 1.4V to 1.5V to the RCA-input of the R28.

Verdict is, that it works pretty well in both configuration.

Make sure that your amplifier has enough headroom when feed with the BTR5. 
The thing is that the amp has to amplify ^^ the missing output power of the BTR5 in comparison to the Mojo, which throw 3V to the amp. (Industrial standard is 2V)
When the Mojo is set to 2V manually, the difference wouldn't be that much, i think.

I've to say that from level 55 to 60 (coupled with the R28) on the BTR5 it's a hugh jump in volume, but w/o any deterioration in sound quality.

Have a great day and keep listening to good music.

Chris

P.s.
As a pre-amp, the BTR5 stays quite cool instead of heating up when a headphone is connected.


----------



## MatusSVK

Wondering if @FiiO  will soon release a BTR5 successor, as Shanling just released their UP5


----------



## FiiO

MatusSVK said:


> Wondering if @FiiO  will soon release a BTR5 successor, as Shanling just released their UP5


Generally the life cycle of our products is about 18 to 24 months, and we will release new upgrade model based on the market competition and development progress.

Best regards


----------



## Opus131 (Jun 22, 2021)

I just got the BTR5 today, works fine on my phone, cheapo Samsung A10, with a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 out of the 3.5mm output, no less (wasn't hoping much for those headphones but it's a lot punchier than i thought. I gotta wonder what it would sound like if i got a balanced cable on the 2.5mm output).

However, my PC is another story. The device connects, but nothing works right. Volume control on the BTR5 is locked, and i can only hear anything if i set it to 100% on the desktop, but the sound is really faint and distorted.

For the record, i have a Realtek ALC1200 and Intel AC9260. Perhaps it's a driver issue all though the device seems to be recognized fine by windows. What am i doing wrong?


----------



## ilianto

Opus131 said:


> I just got the BTR5 today, works fine on my phone, cheapo Samsung A10, with a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 out of the 3.5mm output, no less (wasn't hoping much for those headphones but it's a lot punchier than i thought. I gotta wonder what it would sound like if i got a balanced cable on the 2.5mm output).
> 
> However, my PC is another story. The device connects, but nothing works right. Volume control on the BTR5 is locked, and i can only hear anything if i set it to 100% on the desktop, but the sound is really faint and distorted.
> 
> For the record, i have a Realtek ALC1200 and Intel AC9260. Perhaps it's a driver issue all though the device seems to be recognized fine by windows. What am i doing wrong?


BT or USB connection?


----------



## Opus131

ilianto said:


> BT or USB connection?



Both.

I think. Maybe it was still working in bluetooth even though i thought i was using it in USB i have to check.


----------



## ilianto

Opus131 said:


> Both.
> 
> I think. Maybe it was still working in bluetooth even though i thought i was using it in USB i have to check.


Volume controls and track skipping does not work in USB afaik... That's why I asked.


----------



## hmscott (Jun 22, 2021)

Chris Kaoss said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> After a request on another thread
> 
> ...


Thank you for testing and posting the BTR5 single-ended 3.5mm output to the R28. 

The R28 has an XLR Balanced input available.  You could use the BTR5 2.5mm Balanced output to the R28 XLR input.

For my use I find the higher output of the BTR5 2.5mm balanced output into my IEM's and headphones is a big improvement.  It was a nice improvement replacing 3.5mm single-ended cables with 2.5mm balanced cables for my IEM's and headphones that would support Balanced cable upgrades. I rarely use the 3.5mm port on the BTR5.

I looked up the BTR5 single-ended (3.5mm) output parameters posted by FiiO:

Amplitude
PO：1.6V（32Ω /THD+N＜1%）
PO:  1.8V (no loaded)
BAL≤2.2uV（ A-weighted）
BAL: 2.8V（32Ω /THD+N＜1%）
BAL: 3.6V(no loaded)

Output Power
PO about 80mW（32Ω loaded）
PO about 90mW（16Ω loaded）
BAL about 240mW（32Ω loaded）
BAL about 240mW（16Ω loaded）

THD+N
PO＜0.003%(LDAC 1kHz A-weighted)
BAL＜0.002%(LDAC 1kHz A-weighted)

Output Impedance
PO≤1.0Ω（32Ω loaded）
BAL≤2.0Ω（32Ω loaded）

Noise Floor
PO≤2uV（ A-weighted）
BAL≤2.2uV（ A-weighted）

SNR
PO≥118dB (32Ω  A-weighted)
BAL≥122dB(32Ω  A-weighted)

Crosstalk
PO≥ 79dB（1kHz 32Ω loaded）
PO≥ 95dB（1kHz no loaded）
BAL≥ 118dB（1kHz 32Ω loaded）
BAL≥119dB（1kHz no loaded）

More BTR5 Specifications posted by FiiO: *FiiO BTR5 Parameters*

Please post a review of the BTR5 Balanced output to R28, and please post the links to the cable(s) used.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

hmscott said:


> Thank you for testing and posting the BTR5 single-ended 3.5mm output to the R28.
> 
> The R28 has an XLR Balanced input available.  You could use the BTR5 2.5mm Balanced output to the R28 XLR input.
> 
> ...


I know this spec sheet very well. 

Could be an interesting task to do.
I'll have a look for an adequate adapter to perform this test.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Opus131 said:


> I just got the BTR5 today, works fine on my phone, cheapo Samsung A10, with a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 out of the 3.5mm output, no less (wasn't hoping much for those headphones but it's a lot punchier than i thought. I gotta wonder what it would sound like if i got a balanced cable on the 2.5mm output).
> 
> However, my PC is another story. The device connects, but nothing works right. Volume control on the BTR5 is locked, and i can only hear anything if i set it to 100% on the desktop, but the sound is really faint and distorted.
> 
> For the record, i have a Realtek ALC1200 and Intel AC9260. Perhaps it's a driver issue all though the device seems to be recognized fine by windows. What am i doing wrong?


Just try the FiiO USB Dac driver instead.
It works sometimes, sometimes it's useless. ^^


----------



## hmscott (Jun 22, 2021)

Chris Kaoss said:


> ...I'll have a look for an adequate adapter to perform this test.


Audio-GD has a number of interesting cables, but not the 2.5mm TRRS to Dual XLR, perhaps they might take a custom order?
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/CablesEN.htm

Here are a few Amazon candidates:
2.5mm Trrs to Dual XLR Male Cable Balanced Audio Headphone Adapter Cable 1 FT 0.3M
NewFantasia 2.5mm TRRS Balanced Male to 2 XLR Male Dual XLR Male
P2.5-M2 HiFi Hi End 2.5mm TRRS Balanced Male to 2 XLR Male Cable

I've used a number of NewFantasia cables and they are well made and so far reliable...


----------



## Opus131

Nevermind it works now. Must have been Windows 10 acting up. Bloody hell.


----------



## Opus131

BTW this thing beats my LG V10, at least at first impression. Since i no longer have the V10 i can only go by memory but the sound just seems better, and that despite using my HD 600 out of the 3.5mm.

One question about that. Does the 2.5mm output changes the sound quality or is it just about power? I could get balanced cables for the HD 600 and my IEM but honestly if it's just about power i may not need to re-cable since i'm don't really listen to loud music. Plus i think the 3.5mm output doesn't drain the battery as much, right?


----------



## fsi22 (Jun 22, 2021)

hmscott said:


> Thank you for testing and posting the BTR5 single-ended 3.5mm output to the R28.
> 
> The R28 has an XLR Balanced input available.  You could use the BTR5 2.5mm Balanced output to the R28 XLR input.
> 
> ...





I've tested the BTR5 balanced out , 2.8V no clipping maxed out on 40hz and 1khz sine wave into 56 Ohm load.

I use mine through 2.5mm into an Xcan. Balanced Ouput is 5.5V (Max BTR5 and + 10 in red zone on Xcan)

Which I find stunning as it then is Diablo, Normal output level. To put into context. The Susvara I have which measures 60 Ohm @ 80dB mW ( 92dB V) sensitivity, will reach 107dB SPL with that combo.

Testing a track like Billie Ellish - Bury a Friend ( My go to torture test) @ 56 seconds , reaches 0dbFS and 70hz. The BTR5 on it's own, will output a clean 101dB SPL with my headphones.


----------



## fsi22 (Jun 22, 2021)

Opus131 said:


> BTW this thing beats my LG V10, at least at first impression. Since i no longer have the V10 i can only go by memory but the sound just seems better, and that despite using my HD 600 out of the 3.5mm.
> 
> One question about that. Does the 2.5mm output changes the sound quality or is it just about power? I could get balanced cables for the HD 600 and my IEM but honestly if it's just about power i may not need to re-cable since i'm don't really listen to loud music. Plus i think the 3.5mm output doesn't drain the battery as much, right?




Doesn't change sound quality, increases the Voltage. I have 2 units which ab tested at max voltage of the SE. No difference.

For the HD600, I'd use balanced as it gets a little louder. I haven't tested a 300 Ohm to measure exactly how much but it would be at least 4dB.


----------



## Opus131

I see, so i'll just recable the HD 600 and leave the IEM as they are. 

Is it safe to buy them from China? Some of them go for little: 

https://www.ebay.it/itm/324559827514?hash=item4b9145f23a:g:mxcAAOSwOktglNwJ

Not sure where to get parts like this here in Italy.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

hmscott said:


> Audio-GD has a number of interesting cables, but not the 2.5mm TRRS to Dual XLR, perhaps they might take a custom order?
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/CablesEN.htm
> 
> Here are a few Amazon candidates:
> ...


Thx for pointing out.
Have ordered 2 cables immediately. ^^

One 2.5 to 2x xlr and one 2.5 to 4pin xlr.

Let's see/hear how the difference really is. 

Should be here on friday.


----------



## fsi22

Opus131 said:


> I see, so i'll just recable the HD 600 and leave the IEM as they are.
> 
> Is it safe to buy them from China? Some of them go for little:
> 
> ...



yeah, china is good I got my cables off ebay a few years back. 

I buy pieces and cables for my oscilloscope and headphones off AliExpress often. very fast delivery times to Australia.

Yeah use iem off 3.5mm. What iem do you have? the btr5 app is awesome. has a guide which is spot on. type in impedance and sensitivity of iem and gives you a dB SPL.


----------



## Opus131

Shure SE215.


----------



## fsi22

Opus131 said:


> Shure SE215.




3.5mm would be the way to go with those. 17 Ohm , 107dB mW sensitivity. You'd get 126dB SPL and not run into any issues.


----------



## LoryWiv

Chris Kaoss said:


> Just try the FiiO USB Dac driver instead.
> It works sometimes, sometimes it's useless. ^^


FiiO ASIO driver works great for me.


----------



## Opus131

Any danger to the longevity of the battery if one uses this on USB on a PC?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Not on mine till now.
But i use it with bluetooth more often since the Mojo has arrived.


----------



## hmscott

fsi22 said:


> I've tested the BTR5 balanced out , 2.8V no clipping maxed out on 40hz and 1khz sine wave into 56 Ohm load.
> 
> I use mine through 2.5mm into an Xcan. Balanced Ouput is 5.5V (Max BTR5 and + 10 in red zone on Xcan)
> 
> ...


That is awesome!  Thanks for sharing.  Can you share which cable you used?

And, I've recently learned that the ifi Diablo measured only 1.7w continuous - not 5w. I was considering a Diablo for boosting the M15 output - while waiting for the M17 with more power, but it looks like I'll wait


----------



## fsi22 (Jun 23, 2021)

hmscott said:


> That is awesome!  Thanks for sharing.  Can you share which cable you used?
> 
> And, I've recently learned that the ifi Diablo measured only 1.7w continuous - not 5w. I was considering a Diablo for boosting the M15 output - while waiting for the M17 with more power, but it looks like I'll wait



I tested all the units with all cables I have. Skyaudio cables, Original Hifiman, Sennheiser and a cheap AliExpress cables. All gave me the same result in terms of maximum output at clipping. 

Yeah, the Diablo is awesome but low impedance and low sensitivity is a torture test for amplifiers. The 50-65 Ohm range is the middle ground and as such, is extremely difficult. The Diablo comes alive at higher impedance loads. 300 Ohm and it will output 16.5V or 900mW ( That's continuous so will probably peak at 1W !!!!!!! ) 

Sorry for dragging along but the last bit of info. The M17 if it does have double the power is only 3dB more BUT assuming we are working with a 4.3V max output voltage on the M15. That is already at 24.59 dB above the sensitivity of your headphone (79.3dB is the lowest I've seen it measured , let's go with that) , That will net you peaks of 103dB SPL.

There's so much to consider especially with these impedance load ranges when they're low sensitivity.


----------



## FiiO

Opus131 said:


> Any danger to the longevity of the battery if one uses this on USB on a PC?


Dear friend,

The BTR5 has charging protection detection, so the battery will not be damaged even when keep connecting the BTR5 to the PC. And if you don't want to charge the BTR5 when connecting it to the computer, you could set the charge option in the BTR5 to off first.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

A vote about longer version FiiO LT-LT1(https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/609228.html)
Which length would you choose: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-vote-about-longer-version-fiio-lt-lt1.958360/​


----------



## miltonjsvidal

How do I have foobar2000 and other program sound at the same time in DAC MODE ?


----------



## LoryWiv

miltonjsvidal said:


> How do I have foobar2000 and other program sound at the same time in DAC MODE ?


Not sure if this is your specific issue but as a good first step, make sure the "exclusive control" setting is unchecked in windows:


----------



## miltonjsvidal

Thank You very much. 


LoryWiv said:


> Not sure if this is your specific issue but as a good first step, make sure the "exclusive control" setting is unchecked in windows:


Thank you very much.


----------



## psp123

Three weeks ago I purchased a BTR5 and it’s been working fine until today when it became unresponsive.
It will no longer turn on. I tried to reset it by pressing the power button for 30 seconds. When I connect it to the charger it shows that it’s fully charged.
Is there anything else I could try before contacting the store?


----------



## Ichos

Unfortunately there are quite a few reports of BTR5 responding like this.
I had one in my hands and couldn't do anything to make it work


----------



## Nealz

Hi guys I just got the Fiio BTR 5 a few days ago, and I'm getting 5.5 to 6 hours battery life using single ended port not balanced. My volume is set to 55 during this test period and I'm using LDAC codec, 990 kbps. Is this normal? I was under the impression that using the single ended port I would get 7 hours worth of battery life easily.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Guess the battery has to settle down a bit.
But the claimed battery life belongs to aac and volume level 30 with a 27ohm load.
So LDAC has a hugh impact on battery life and your level 55 doesn't make it any better. 

I'll make a run today for the battery life of my Btr5 with the FiiO FD1 (32ohm), Ldac and Vlevel 30.
Usually, my listening level out of the se with said Fiio is <30.
Very curios how it ends.


----------



## psp123

Ichos said:


> Unfortunately there are quite a few reports of BTR5 responding like this.
> I had one in my hands and couldn't do anything to make it work


That’s too bad. I really liked it when it was working.


----------



## Ichos

psp123 said:


> That’s too bad. I really liked it when it was working.


Is it still under warranty?
Then return it for a replacement because I agree with you , it is really good sounding.


----------



## Nealz

Chris Kaoss said:


> Guess the battery has to settle down a bit.
> But the claimed battery life belongs to aac and volume level 30 with a 27ohm load.
> So LDAC has a hugh impact on battery life and your level 55 doesn't make it any better.
> 
> ...


Hey Chris thanks for your response I really appreciate it. Oh I didn't know the claimed battery life of 9 hours was for aac and volume level 30 with 27 ohm load. I like to listen to my music loud, and my btr5 is under 16 ohm load as I'm using final e3000 headphones. Would be really curious to see how long your battery lasts with ldac and 30 volume 🙂


----------



## psp123

Ichos said:


> Is it still under warranty?
> Then return it for a replacement because I agree with you , it is really good sounding.


It’s only a couple of weeks old. Hopefully I can get a replacement quickly.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Nealz said:


> Hey Chris thanks for your response I really appreciate it. Oh I didn't know the claimed battery life of 9 hours was for aac and volume level 30 with 27 ohm load. I like to listen to my music loud, and my btr5 is under 16 ohm load as I'm using final e3000 headphones. Would be really curious to see how long your battery lasts with ldac and 30 volume 🙂


Back after proceeding.

BTR5, LDAC, H-gain, Vlevel 30, FiiO FD1 (32ohm), distance to the V30 20cm mostly ( short times more than 3m w/ wall )

After playing these albums

Amarathe - Manifest, Maximalism, The Nexus
Ancient Bards - Soulless Child, A new dawn ending, Origine
Unleash the Archers - Time stands still, Apex, Abyss

from local storage, the BTR5 has died finally. 

*Play time was 8 hours 5 min.*

The first battery alert came up after 7 hours 43 min


Maybe the battery on your BTR5 has to settle down after a few charges to come close.


----------



## Nealz

Chris Kaoss said:


> Back after proceeding.
> 
> BTR5, LDAC, H-gain, Vlevel 30, FiiO FD1 (32ohm), distance to the V30 20cm mostly ( short times more than 3m w/ wall )
> 
> ...


Wow that's incredible battery life but then again you're listening at 30 while I'm listening at 55 volume. So maybe that's why I'm getting less battery life? Anyway as I just recently got it I'll follow your advice and test it out for a couple of weeks, and update you here. Cheers again for going through the hassle and sharing your results here mate 😊


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Nealz said:


> Wow that's incredible battery life but then again you're listening at 30 while I'm listening at 55 volume. So maybe that's why I'm getting less battery life? Anyway as I just recently got it I'll follow your advice and test it out for a couple of weeks, and update you here. Cheers again for going through the hassle and sharing your results here mate 😊


My pleasure.
As always while listening to music. ^^

Yeah, lower resistance, like your 16ohm, means more current, which drains the battery even faster.
The higher volume does the rest, i guess. 

Is the Final E3k that demanding, eg. low sensitive, that this high volume level is necessary???
Can't stand that volume for more than a few sec on the FD1. 

Please be aware of your hearing, you only get it once.


----------



## Nealz

Chris Kaoss said:


> My pleasure.
> As always while listening to music. ^^
> 
> Yeah, lower resistance, like your 16ohm, means more current, which drains the battery even faster.
> ...


Hey thanks for the warning man, yes the Final E3K is that demanding, after setting the volume to 55 I still have to use 70 to 80% volume on my Oneplus 8 Pro using UAPP player. Whereas using my Moondrop SSR I can't go above 30 to 40% volume! E3K scales even further when using a dedicated desktop DAC & AMP. Even BTR5 isn't enough to bring out its full potential!


----------



## FiiO

psp123 said:


> Three weeks ago I purchased a BTR5 and it’s been working fine until today when it became unresponsive.
> It will no longer turn on. I tried to reset it by pressing the power button for 30 seconds. When I connect it to the charger it shows that it’s fully charged.
> Is there anything else I could try before contacting the store?


Dear friend,

Sorry about that.

Please try this FAQ to see whether the issue remains first: 
https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202105211820457543051&tid=99

Best regards


----------



## gavinfabl

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Sorry about that.
> 
> ...


Is the BTR5 still for sale. It’s not available on Amazon UK or your Aliexpress shop?


----------



## Oluvs Buddy

There is a fault with my BTR5 which causes it to disconnect too easily when touched in DAC mode.

It makes adjusting the volume so frustrating. The problem was present when it was new but because I didn't use it in DAC mode at the start I thought it was just the Bluetooth being flakey. Now I'm sure it is a default on the device.

It also happens in bluetooth even when the DAC is on oneside of my body. I put the BTR5 in my left shirt pocket and my phone on the right and the same thing happens.

Is this a known fault with the BTR5.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Oluvs Buddy said:


> There is a fault with my BTR5 which causes it to disconnect too easily when touched in DAC mode.
> 
> It makes adjusting the volume so frustrating. The problem was present when it was new but because I didn't use it in DAC mode at the start I thought it was just the Bluetooth being flakey. Now I'm sure it is a default on the device.
> 
> ...


I have one for a year and I haven't faced this issue even once. I think your earphone jack has some issue. You should get it checked at your local Fiio service centre. If still under warranty, you might get a replacement piece as well.


----------



## Oluvs Buddy

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I have one for a year and I haven't faced this issue even once. I think your earphone jack has some issue. You should get it checked at your local Fiio service centre. If still under warranty, you might get a replacement piece as well.



It is not the earphone jack. It also gets disconnected in pavucontrol.  That shouldn't happen unless the disconnection has been continued for a number of seconds.

The same fault also occurs on the balanced connection.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Oluvs Buddy said:


> It is not the earphone jack. It also gets disconnected in pavucontrol.  That shouldn't happen unless the disconnection has been continued for a number of seconds.
> 
> The same fault also occurs on the balanced connection.


Ahh. Then I suggest you visit your local Fiio store/centre and get it checked by them


----------



## FiiO

Oluvs Buddy said:


> There is a fault with my BTR5 which causes it to disconnect too easily when touched in DAC mode.
> 
> It makes adjusting the volume so frustrating. The problem was present when it was new but because I didn't use it in DAC mode at the start I thought it was just the Bluetooth being flakey. Now I'm sure it is a default on the device.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

1. Do you have another usb cable to test? Does the issue remain?

2. Some explanations about Bluetooth Connection https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202106261757569369812&tid=113 You could check whether this  explanation help?

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

gavinfabl said:


> Is the BTR5 still for sale. It’s not available on Amazon UK or your Aliexpress shop?


The BTR5 is out of stock currently. If the seller does not have it as well, maybe it is sold out. You could wait for the next batch if you don't mind.

Best regards


----------



## Opus131

Can i plug this thing on my desktop speakers? 

Silly question probably but i'm a novice when it comes to audio electronics and i'm always afraid to damage them in unexpected ways.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Opus131 said:


> Can i plug this thing on my desktop speakers?
> 
> Silly question probably but i'm a novice when it comes to audio electronics and i'm always afraid to damage them in unexpected ways.


Yes.
In case your speakers have a 3.5mm plug. 
But you've to figure out the best matching volume level yourself.


----------



## Lolito

I own this nad i love it, I just would like to have a btr5 transmitter for my mac, to send audio via usb to the btr5 in the highest possible bluetooth codec. currently macbook supports aptx standaart max.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Lolito said:


> I own this nad i love it, I just would like to have a btr5 transmitter for my mac, to send audio via usb to the btr5 in the highest possible bluetooth codec. currently macbook supports aptx standaart max.


The BTA30 comes to mind, but it doesn't support LDAC when the source is connected via usb, sadly.


----------



## Lolito

Chris Kaoss said:


> The BTA30 comes to mind, but it doesn't support LDAC when the source is connected via usb, sadly.


yes, but that product is half baked only, waiting for next version, maybe.


----------



## Romeo Dolorosa (Jul 12, 2021)

Radio81 said:


> Yes, you plug the BT-W3 into your PS4, and it will send BT audio to your BT amp or headphones.  It will be stereo only on PS4.  The audio it sends varies upon the capability of the BT device you are using, SBC, AptX-HD, LL, etc.  Chat audio on PS4 still needs the included BT-W3 3.5mm chat adapter, or other means of external mic, such as modmic or similar.  I just received my BT-W3 today and will post impressions of it with PS4 once I've spent some time with it.
> 
> I'm waiting to see what the PS5 will be able to send via USB.  If it can send processed surround audio via BT, then I will either pick up a BT3K or BTR5, and connect to my wired headphones to pair with the BT-W3.


Since I finally managed to pick up a BTR5, is this dongle still the best affordable way to connect a PS4 to the BTR5, or did better options emerge in the meantime?
As far as I was able to find out both PS4 and PS5 still only support UAC1 and there is no trick or converter cable to connect them to a UAC2 DAC, right?!

Are there devices that can convert TOSLINK to USB (UAC2)?
I am only finding devices that convert from USB to TOSLINK.

Thank you (or anyone else) in advance for looking into my question.


----------



## BobSmith8901

Just got my BTR5 and really enjoying it. Last night I had a chance to use in BT mode with X5III and Samsung A11 and both sounds great, even though APTX is the highest BT codec either will go to.

Today I ran the BTR5 in USB DAC mode with my A11 and it was fantastic! I was able to drive my Drop HE-X4's with good headroom through its 2.5mm balanced. It was nice and moderately loud, without straining, at below 30 volume level on the BTR5 and those cans EAT current!

*Question:*

When one is running a phone or DAP in USB DAC mode with an outboard DAC, can one assume that the _primary_ nature of the sound, whatever it is, warm, analytical, etc., is due to the DAC? I realize that _something_ of the nature of the "head unit", cables and obviously, the headphones, also influence the sound but between a smartphone or DAP and a connected DAC, are you basically listening to the sound of the DAC?


----------



## mico1964

BobSmith8901 said:


> *Question:*
> 
> When one is running a phone or DAP in USB DAC mode with an outboard DAC, can one assume that the _primary_ nature of the sound, whatever it is, warm, analytical, etc., is due to the DAC? I realize that _something_ of the nature of the "head unit", cables and obviously, the headphones, also influence the sound but between a smartphone or DAP and a connected DAC, are you basically listening to the sound of the DAC?


Yes, you are using your phone/DAP as a “transport” to feed the external DAC.

There is someone who can perceive some difference between different “transports”. I've never been able to.


----------



## Devodonaldson

BobSmith8901 said:


> Just got my BTR5 and really enjoying it. Last night I had a chance to use in BT mode with X5III and Samsung A11 and both sounds great, even though APTX is the highest BT codec either will go to.
> 
> Today I ran the BTR5 in USB DAC mode with my A11 and it was fantastic! I was able to drive my Drop HE-X4's with good headroom through its 2.5mm balanced. It was nice and moderately loud, without straining, at below 30 volume level on the BTR5 and those cans EAT current!
> 
> ...


In most cases yes, but you are using an Android phone, that isn't bitperfect, so the tuning of the base eq does play a part in the sound ypu here as well. Do you have the atmos audio activated or not. Definitely sounds better on, but wanted you to know it Definitely plays a role as eq changes in the Samsung sound settings will change the sound heard


----------



## BobSmith8901 (Jul 19, 2021)

Devodonaldson said:


> In most cases yes, but you are using an Android phone, that isn't bitperfect, so the tuning of the base eq does play a part in the sound ypu here as well. Do you have the atmos audio activated or not. Definitely sounds better on, but wanted you to know it Definitely plays a role as eq changes in the Samsung sound settings will change the sound heard


I do use Atmos when I'm just using the phone headphone jack. I prefer it most of the time.


----------



## Radio81

Romeo Dolorosa said:


> Since I finally managed to pick up a BTR5, is this dongle still the best affordable way to connect a PS4 to the BTR5, or did better options emerge in the meantime?
> As far as I was able to find out both PS4 and PS5 still only support UAC1 and there is no trick or converter cable to connect them to a UAC2 DAC, right?!
> 
> Are there devices that can convert TOSLINK to USB (UAC2)?
> ...



Just now seeing this.

Correct.  I believe UAC1 is supported, UAC2 is not.  I am not sure of PS4, but on PS5 the output from the Creative BT-W3 paired with my Fiio BTR3K is really lo, probably 50% of normal.  It's odd, because when connected to PC, the pairing between the BT-W3 and BTR3K has more than enough volume.  I was never able to determine why the volume is so low on PS5.  PS5 volume output is set to full.

I also have the Creative BT-W2, which is the previous version of the BT-W3.  Same BT codec support as the BT-W3.  For whatever reason, there is plenty of volume when connected to PS5 and paired with the BTR3K.  It's strange, because the BT-W3 also has plenty of volume from PS5 when paired with a Soundblaster E5.  

Everything is on the latest firmware.  I'd choose the BT-W2 over the BT-W3 on PlayStation if using Fiio bluetooth devices.

I am not aware of a UAC1 to UAC2 converter or workaround.


----------



## Qupie

There are 2 problems with PS4 / PS5 DAC compatibility. 

The first is the UAC1 problem. But in addition to that, there is the sound volume bug as described above. Almost all DACs have this problem. The best source to read more on it is on the JDS labs blog: https://blog.jdslabs.com/2020/11/connecting-a-usb-dac-to-ps4-or-ps5/

In short, there is a couple of ways to "fix" the problem. None of them really work with BTR5 though. 

- Get a seperate dac for PS5 (Soundblasterx G6, atom dac, some random cheap UAC1 dac) Some (most?) of them will have the sound bug, so you will need a more powerful amp than you would normally need for you headphones. 
- Get a seperate USB bridge (Soundblaster G6 or the DAC above work for this too) and connect it to your "normal" dac. This is probably the route I am going to take. 
- Use an HDMI extractor. I don't like this solution personally, since you are putting a cheap component in both your audio and graphic chain. I prefer to pit it only in the sound chain. 

All of this results in either an SPdif or analogue output. Although the G6 is really decent for its price to just run your headphones.


----------



## Qupie

As for the BTR5. Is it worth getting it if you are only going to use the single ended output? Or are there cheaper options that are better then?


----------



## vsg28 (Jul 23, 2021)

Qupie said:


> As for the BTR5. Is it worth getting it if you are only going to use the single ended output? Or are there cheaper options that are better then?


Having just tested the BTR5, the main reason to get it is if you are willing to use the app and customize everything to your desire if only using 3.5 mm out. On the flip side, keep in mind that the ESS9218P DACs are quickly running out of available stock worldwide, so if FiiO goes with the ESS9219P for future production runs then the costs will increase. So either get this (or whatever else uses the same DAC) asap or maybe wait and see what new options come up in a couple of months as companies come to terms of the chip shortage issues.

Edit: The FiiO ASIO generic drivers in USB mode are also nice, but in only wired mode you might as well just get something like the E1DA 3098D


----------



## Qupie

True, I am not really in a hurry though. I have a setup at home but looking to get a cheaper setup at the office too to upgrade from my Fiio E18. 

Not looking to customize anything honestly, so a 2nd hand E10k or something might make more sense. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Sebasistan (Jul 25, 2021)

Oluvs Buddy said:


> It is not the earphone jack. It also gets disconnected in pavucontrol.  That shouldn't happen unless the disconnection has been continued for a number of seconds.
> 
> The same fault also occurs on the balanced connection.


I have a similar issue. Connected via USB-C to my PC.
Currently it drops the connection after a few minutes, the screen begins to flicker erratically every second or so and even reconnecting it doesn't do anything. I think the battery might just be dead.

Speaking of which, I use this basically solely as a USB dongle. But setting "charge" to "off" is something the device doesn't remember. I basically have to set it to "off" every time I reboot my computer. Now it looks like the battery is just drained because I didn't use it for a bit, and it doesn't have enough charge to stay alive even when connected. Maybe. It's kinda erratic.

EDIT

So, I think I have figured out the issue. The BTR5 doesn't like being run off of a USB hub. Maybe that didn't give it enough power, I don't know. But connecting the device DIRECTLY to my PC, not to one of the hubs I use (because... reasons... I don't know either how I got SO many USB devices) means it works without hiccups. I tried it with my lapto, and that worked, even using the same cable. So... No using USB hubs! Lesson learned.


----------



## quimbo

Sebasistan said:


> I have a similar issue. Connected via USB-C to my PC.
> Currently it drops the connection after a few minutes, the screen begins to flicker erratically every second or so and even reconnecting it doesn't do anything. I think the battery might just be dead.
> 
> Speaking of which, I use this basically solely as a USB dongle. But setting "charge" to "off" is something the device doesn't remember. I basically have to set it to "off" every time I reboot my computer. Now it looks like the battery is just drained because I didn't use it for a bit, and it doesn't have enough charge to stay alive even when connected. Maybe. It's kinda erratic.
> ...


Was it a powered hub?


----------



## ClieOS (Jul 25, 2021)

Sebasistan said:


> EDIT
> 
> So, I think I have figured out the issue. The BTR5 doesn't like being run off of a USB hub. Maybe that didn't give it enough power, I don't know. But connecting the device DIRECTLY to my PC, not to one of the hubs I use (because... reasons... I don't know either how I got SO many USB devices) means it works without hiccups. I tried it with my lapto, and that worked, even using the same cable. So... No using USB hubs! Lesson learned.


 
Could be relevant: Some PC has a USB power save function built into the BIOS (and sometime the OS as well), and will automatically disconnected certain USB connection after awhile if it didn't sense any change of activity.


----------



## LoryWiv

Functionality question: Can one program / map any of the BTR5 buttons to simulate pressing "#" during an active phone call? I use a number of 2-factor authentication websites where one can receive a phone call rather than text to get the access code. This would be very handy when phone is buried in a pocket or in the other room charging, except for the fact that the phone bot requires you to "press pound" before providing the code. Any workarounds would be welcomed.


----------



## Raguvian

Sorry if this has been asked but I am considering getting the BTR5, but have seen the terrible ratings the app gets, especially on iOS. Can I still use the BTR5 without using the app? I was hoping to be able to set EQ through the screen but none of the reviews I've watched mention anything about being able to do it other than there being a menu option for EQ on the screen.

My hope is to use it as a headphone jack for my iPhone via Bluetooth and also use it with my work and personal laptops through USB mode. I would be powering Sennheiser HD58X and Westone 3 (the 58x I'll likely run balanced).

Thanks!


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Raguvian said:


> Sorry if this has been asked but I am considering getting the BTR5, but have seen the terrible ratings the app gets, especially on iOS. Can I still use the BTR5 without using the app? I was hoping to be able to set EQ through the screen but none of the reviews I've watched mention anything about being able to do it other than there being a menu option for EQ on the screen.
> 
> My hope is to use it as a headphone jack for my iPhone via Bluetooth and also use it with my work and personal laptops through USB mode. I would be powering Sennheiser HD58X and Westone 3 (the 58x I'll likely run balanced).
> 
> Thanks!


You can set the EQ profiles 

Hiphop, Classic, R&B, Dance, Rock, Pop, Jazz, User and Off on the BTR5 itself.
For set up the user profile, you have to install the app, nontheless.
But once you've configured the BTR5 over the app you can forget about.

Didn't touched the app for over a year.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Raguvian said:


> Sorry if this has been asked but I am considering getting the BTR5, but have seen the terrible ratings the app gets, especially on iOS. Can I still use the BTR5 without using the app? I was hoping to be able to set EQ through the screen but none of the reviews I've watched mention anything about being able to do it other than there being a menu option for EQ on the screen.
> 
> My hope is to use it as a headphone jack for my iPhone via Bluetooth and also use it with my work and personal laptops through USB mode. I would be powering Sennheiser HD58X and Westone 3 (the 58x I'll likely run balanced).
> 
> Thanks!


App is not at all mandatory. I haven't used the app in almost 7-8 months


----------



## Raguvian

Chris Kaoss said:


> You can set the EQ profiles
> 
> Hiphop, Classic, R&B, Dance, Rock, Pop, Jazz, User and Off on the BTR5 itself.
> For set up the user profile, you have to install the app, nontheless.
> ...





Barusu Lamperouge said:


> App is not at all mandatory. I haven't used the app in almost 7-8 months



Thank you both very much! Just ordered one. I will try the one time setup with the app and then forget about it.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Raguvian said:


> Thank you both very much! Just ordered one. I will try the one time setup with the app and then forget about it.


Actually you don't even need to download the app except maybe to lower the notification volume and maybe harmonics if you care about it.


----------



## LoryWiv

I quite enjoy a touch of even order harmonics to create a "tube amp" type sound. The app is worth it to me just for that. But agree, haven't used it in months once set initially.


----------



## Raguvian

I got the BTR5 a few days ago and have been having a few issues:

- I tried to use USB 1.0 because according to the manual USB 2.0 needs a driver to work with Windows. However, my Mac doesn't recognize the BTR5 using USB 1.0.

- After waking the computer from sleep mode it seems like it can be hit or miss if the audio still goes through the BTR5. Sometimes it works without issue, sometimes the sound is extremely choppy and I have to reboot the BTR5 and sometimes I have to unplug it and plug it back in to work. Even with it doesn't work it shows that it's plugged in through the USB on the BTR5's screen.

- My USB dock that I'm using doesn't seem to charge it, or charges it much slower than the BTR5 uses power. I will have to charge it straight off the computer in the future.


----------



## FiiO

Raguvian said:


> I got the BTR5 a few days ago and have been having a few issues:
> 
> - I tried to use USB 1.0 because according to the manual USB 2.0 needs a driver to work with Windows. However, my Mac doesn't recognize the BTR5 using USB 1.0.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

You could try to clear the pairing by holding the volume +&- buttons at the same time for about 5s then reconnect again to see whether it helps? The driver is not needed in MAC, so you could switch to USB 2.0 mode in order to get higher sampling rate support. 
The recommended charger for BTR5 is 5V 2A one. So the current output from the computer may not be enough.

Best regards


----------



## goody

can i hook this up in dac mode to my iphone 11 max?


----------



## rlw6534

goody said:


> can i hook this up in dac mode to my iphone 11 max?



Yes.  Just turn charging off on the BTR5 so it doesn't try to draw too much current from the iPhone.  Or you can use the USB 3 CCK (with charging cable).


----------



## qsk78

Not bad at all as "on the go" solution. 
Nice pairing with Ety ER3SE (2.5 mm output).

I was choosing between a DAP and this one. I did not really need a DAP. The last one I sold 1.5 years ago (Cayin n6 II, A01/T01). 
I needed something for on the go only. So ideally it should be something small and wireless with "acceptable" sound quality.
I owned xDSD in the past which sounded also very good but it is not that small and not that affordable as the BTR5.
Good job Fiio!


----------



## BobSmith8901

qsk78 said:


> Not bad at all as "on the go" solution.
> Nice pairing with Ety ER3SE (2.5 mm output).
> 
> I was choosing between a DAP and this one. I did not really need a DAP. The last one I sold 1.5 years ago (Cayin n6 II, A01/T01).
> ...


Nice! Curious as to what phone you've got it paired to?


----------



## qsk78 (Aug 7, 2021)

BobSmith8901 said:


> Nice! Curious as to what phone you've got it paired to?


Samsung A41. Actually I don't use it as a phone but just like a digital transport for BTR5 on the go and for iDSD Diablo in the office.
As a phone I have a company iPhone.


----------



## BobSmith8901

qsk78 said:


> Samsung A41. Actually I don't use it as a phone but just like a digital transport for BTR5 on the go and for iDSD Diablo in the office.
> As a phone I have a company iPhone.


Sounds good. I was looking for something that did LDAC and I see that yours definitely does. Does it also do aptX HD?


----------



## qsk78

BobSmith8901 said:


> Sounds good. I was looking for something that did LDAC and I see that yours definitely does. Does it also do aptX HD?


It did just aptX before I switched to LDAC in BT and in phone Developer's Settings. I don't see aptX HD codec in settings.


----------



## BobSmith8901

qsk78 said:


> It did just aptX before I switched to LDAC in BT and in phone Developer's Settings. I don't see aptX HD codec in settings.


Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

qsk78 said:


> Not bad at all as "on the go" solution.
> Nice pairing with Ety ER3SE (2.5 mm output).
> 
> I was choosing between a DAP and this one. I did not really need a DAP. The last one I sold 1.5 years ago (Cayin n6 II, A01/T01).
> ...



Glad to hear about that!

Best regards


----------



## Devodonaldson

BobSmith8901 said:


> Sounds good. I was looking for something that did LDAC and I see that yours definitely does. Does it also do aptX HD?


Samsung phones don't do APTX HD. For higher quality they look to push their own scalable codec for their iems, but LDWC functions on Samsung devices. The Samsung A12 also does aptx and LDAC, for a cheaper solution as digital transport for Bluetooth.


----------



## FiiO (Aug 18, 2021)

The second surprise is the upgraded 2021 version of the Flagship Portable HiFi Bluetooth DAC and Amplifier BTR5.
The new BTR5 2021 takes an all-new ES9219C DAC, which has better performance and stronger decoding ability. While ensuring low power and higher SNR, it is capable of handling MQA renderer. The wireless experience starts here right now!


----------



## ClieOS

Still CSR8675? Hmmm...


----------



## r31ya

FiiO said:


> The second surprise is the upgraded 2021 version of the Flagship Portable HiFi Bluetooth DAC and Amplifier BTR5.
> The new BTR5 2021 takes an all-new ES9219C DAC, which has better performance and stronger decoding ability. While ensuring low power and higher SNR, it is capable of handling MQA decoding. The wireless experience starts here right now!


Do the 3.5mm have more power now?


----------



## 397324

I'll probably end up getting one, as we all know the hardware is more important than the music, but will we hear a difference walking down the street or in the Gym or whatever portable use we use our existing BTR5's?


----------



## rlw6534 (Aug 16, 2021)

Darren Cotter said:


> I'll probably end up getting one, as we all know the hardware is more important than the music, but will we hear a difference walking down the street or in the Gym or whatever portable use we use our existing BTR5's?



Probably not...  

But I do think the new ES9219C DAC is a good move with all the integrated features and efficiency.  Same as the Shanling M3X, BTW.


----------



## r31ya

Darren Cotter said:


> I'll probably end up getting one, as we all know the hardware is more important than the music, but will we hear a difference walking down the street or in the Gym or whatever portable use we use our existing BTR5's?


oh my god, did they fix the antenna?
on LDAC mode putting the BTR5 in difference pocket with my phone can cause connection issue during jogging.
I heard BTR3K have better Antenna, this upgraded BTR5 hopefully does too.


----------



## carpler

My current BTR5 also suffers too much in bluetooth connection and I'm about to sell it and look for a more efficient replacement in this aspect.
A pity because the sound is really satisfying.


----------



## 397324

carpler said:


> My current BTR5 also suffers too much in bluetooth connection and I'm about to sell it and look for a more efficient replacement in this aspect.
> A pity because the sound is really satisfying.



Do you have a shortlist?


----------



## rlw6534

Darren Cotter said:


> Do you have a shortlist?


not carpler, but I would say the Shanling UP5 is what has prompted the BTR5 update.   There always the Qudelix 5K as well.


----------



## 397324

Thanks. The  Qudelix 5K isn't exactly a looker.


----------



## ilianto

Yeah, I'd love a comment as well from Fiio about the antennas. I'd love an upgrade and gift the old one to a friend or relative.


----------



## 397324

I had the BTR5 in that little pocket in my jeans and my Samsung phone in the inside pocket of my coat, and it was dropping out. I put the BTR5 in the normal jean pocket, and it worked fine. lol.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

r31ya said:


> Do the 3.5mm have more power now?


Propably.
It should be on par with the V-Series in high gain mode with.
But this also applies to the former Dac used.
Hopefully FiiO has worked on it.


----------



## Radio81

r31ya said:


> oh my god, did they fix the antenna?
> on LDAC mode putting the BTR5 in difference pocket with my phone can cause connection issue during jogging.
> I heard BTR3K have better Antenna, this upgraded BTR5 hopefully does too.



I hope so.  I can usually get about 30ft of range from the BT source before my BTR3K starts to cut out.  Would love more power from the BTR5, but need the range more.


----------



## brayanbix (Aug 16, 2021)

i have the fiio btr5 and i dont know but the btr5 model 2021 looks like a mid-model upgrade, only dual dac change and give it a mqa capabilities but they don't even specify mqa x4 or x8 decoding, is fpga chip continue there or it changed?, xmos 208 chip have any performance improvement? i don't think so, and the battery, more milliamps? i don't think so either, the CSR bluetooth chip is the same as the previous model, if it could include a qualcomm QCC5120 or QCC5124 bluetooth chip (like qudelix) and include a 4.4mm balanced output or replace the 2.5mm balanced output (i hear it is less used). This is just the same btr5 as always, perhaps this model is due to the lack of stock of the es9218p chip, but the price will do a lot here, if fiio wanted to launch a new version of the btr5 due to the lack of stock of any chip fiio should have taken the opportunity to really improve it (more than a year has passed sience the original btr5 launch), now i see btr5 2021 model looks less versus the competition, unless fiio has a hypothetical btr5k or btr7 like a real update coming soon. I will honestly prefer the shangling up5 because this is a real evolution taking all that is fiio btr5 2021 model and adding almost something like qudelix chip (the qualcomm QCC5120 which is a better bluetooth chip than CSR8675).


----------



## Pavel124

FiiO said:


> Второй сюрприз - это обновленная версия 2021 года Flagship Portable HiFi Bluetooth DAC и Amplifier BTR5.
> В новом BTR5 2021 используется совершенно новый ЦАП ES9219C, который имеет лучшую производительность и более мощные возможности декодирования. Обеспечивая низкую мощность и более высокий SNR, он способен обрабатывать декодирование MQA. Беспроводная связь начинается здесь прямо сейчас!


When will it be on sale?


----------



## ClieOS

8219C is almost spec by spec the same as 9218P, beside adding MQA support (*which really only required a change in the chip digital filter setting). The name themselves say as much. That's not much of any upgrade if you ask me.


----------



## 397324

Can't find any UK dealers for the Shanling up5.


----------



## carpler

Darren Cotter said:


> Do you have a shortlist?



Not at the moment.
I am monitoring what is being written by users about the Shanling UP5, but it is still too early to put it on my 'wish list'.


----------



## FiiO

r31ya said:


> oh my god, did they fix the antenna?
> on LDAC mode putting the BTR5 in difference pocket with my phone can cause connection issue during jogging.
> I heard BTR3K have better Antenna, this upgraded BTR5 hopefully does too.


Dear friend,

Since the BTR5 supports high-rate and high-quality signal transmission, when transmitting high-quality audio signals, the transmission distance will be reduced, which is normal.
Some explanations about Bluetooth Connection from James: https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202106261757569369812&tid=113

Best regards


----------



## SenorChang8

@FiiO For future BTR models please can you decrease balanced output impedance to under <1 Ohms to ensure compatibility with low impedance IEMs?


----------



## FiiO

brayanbix said:


> i have the fiio btr5 and i dont know but the btr5 model 2021 looks like a mid-model upgrade, only dual dac change and give it a mqa capabilities but they don't even specify mqa x4 or x8 decoding, is fpga chip continue there or it changed?, xmos 208 chip have any performance improvement? i don't think so, and the battery, more milliamps? i don't think so either, the CSR bluetooth chip is the same as the previous model, if it could include a qualcomm QCC5120 or QCC5124 bluetooth chip (like qudelix) and include a 4.4mm balanced output or replace the 2.5mm balanced output (i hear it is less used). This is just the same btr5 as always, perhaps this model is due to the lack of stock of the es9218p chip, but the price will do a lot here, if fiio wanted to launch a new version of the btr5 due to the lack of stock of any chip fiio should have taken the opportunity to really improve it (more than a year has passed sience the original btr5 launch), now i see btr5 2021 model looks less versus the competition, unless fiio has a hypothetical btr5k or btr7 like a real update coming soon. I will honestly prefer the shangling up5 because this is a real evolution taking all that is fiio btr5 2021 model and adding almost something like qudelix chip (the qualcomm QCC5120 which is a better bluetooth chip than CSR8675).


Dear friend,

Thanks for the feedback. As the 4.4 socket is larger, so it will take a long time to modify if changing the design. So we did not add the 4.4mm support in the new BTR5.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

SenorChang8 said:


> @FiiO For future BTR models please can you decrease balanced output impedance to under <1 Ohms to ensure compatibility with low impedance IEMs?


Dear friend,

Thanks for the feedback. We will report your feedback to the product manager for assessing about that.

Best regards


----------



## Strifeff7

@FiiO Release date?
I want to buy it,


----------



## x X x (Aug 17, 2021)

Hello, user of BTR5 1gen here. I am using it with Samsung S10 (newest software) and UAPP app, connected via USB-C cable and using bit perfect mode. It is quite new device, bought last year. I have a lot of 16/44,1 and 48 flac files, also some 24/96 and richer. Headphones are Final E5000 on balanced connection, low gain, mini filter, usb audio 2.0, eq off and dimmer set to 1, comfy volume +/- 25, volume control on Samsung is disabled. I have also Philips SHP9500 connected to 3,5 output with high gain, comfy volume +/- 35, volume control on Samsung is disabled.

I have found that battery life using these settings is very low, maybe 3 hours or less. I have not checked it in practice.

What do you think about it? Is this correct? I need to check it via LDAC connection, will check it tomorrow.


----------



## Stevko

is this good with beyer 250ohm?


----------



## Chris Kaoss

x X x said:


> Hello, user of BTR5 1gen here. I am using it with Samsung S10 (newest software) and UAPP app, connected via USB-C cable and using bit perfect mode. It is quite new device, bought last year. I have a lot of 16/44,1 and 48 flac files, also some 24/96 and richer. Headphones are Final E5000 on balanced connection, low gain, mini filter, usb audio 2.0, eq off and dimmer set to 1, comfy volume +/- 25, volume control on Samsung is disabled. I have also Philips SHP9500 connected to 3,5 output with high gain, comfy volume +/- 35, volume control on Samsung is disabled.
> 
> I have found that battery life using these settings is very low, maybe 3 hours or less. I have not checked it in practice.
> 
> What do you think about it? Is this correct? I need to check it via LDAC connection, will check it tomorrow.


It's way too low.
Have checked my BTR5 for run time early in this thread.



Chris Kaoss said:


> Back after proceeding.
> 
> BTR5, LDAC, H-gain, Vlevel 30, FiiO FD1 (32ohm), distance to the V30 20cm mostly ( short times more than 3m w/ wall )
> 
> ...


Have to test it with usb cable, thou.


----------



## Strifeff7

x X x said:


> Hello, user of BTR5 1gen here. I am using it with Samsung S10 (newest software) and UAPP app, connected via USB-C cable and using bit perfect mode. It is quite new device, bought last year. I have a lot of 16/44,1 and 48 flac files, also some 24/96 and richer. Headphones are Final E5000 on balanced connection, low gain, mini filter, usb audio 2.0, eq off and dimmer set to 1, comfy volume +/- 25, volume control on Samsung is disabled. I have also Philips SHP9500 connected to 3,5 output with high gain, comfy volume +/- 35, volume control on Samsung is disabled.
> 
> I have found that battery life using these settings is very low, maybe 3 hours or less. I have not checked it in practice.
> 
> What do you think about it? Is this correct? I need to check it via LDAC connection, will check it tomorrow.


it's correct,
my unit at high gain, volume 35, LDAC,
about 3 hours or so,

I can use it 6+ hours, aac/aptx, low gain, volume 5, phone max volume,


----------



## Stevko

hi!
what cans are you using with btr5?


----------



## x X x (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris Kaoss said:


> It's way too low.
> Have checked my BTR5 for run time early in this thread.
> 
> 
> Have to test it with usb cable, thou.





Strifeff7 said:


> it's correct,
> my unit at high gain, volume 35, LDAC,
> about 3 hours or so,
> 
> I can use it 6+ hours, aac/aptx, low gain, volume 5, phone max volume,



So I have bought this device to use it mainly as a USB DAC...

Right now I am testing LDAC playing time (I have set LDAC quality to highest in Android), I will inform you about the result. And after that I will check USB DAC playing time.

Edit1:
So BTR5 battery is gone after +/- 5 hours of playing using LDAC coddec with best quality setting; settings of BTR5 are: filter: mini; eq: off; dimmer: 1; u-audio: usb2.0; car mode: off; charge: off; gain: high; version 2.0, volume: 30. Final E5000 connected via balanced output.

Now I will check play time using USB-DAC function.

Edit2:
Only about 3 hours of playing music via USB-DAC. Settings was the same as for LDAC connection. 

There are some other options available in Fiio Connect app but I does not think that these settings should change something.

Maybe I have got a faulty unit? What do you think guys?


----------



## Strifeff7

To be fair the official time at full blast is just 1.5 hours,







Anyone could translate this?


----------



## rlw6534

Strifeff7 said:


> To be fair the official time at full blast is just 1.5 hours,
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Online translator.


----------



## Stevko

One std version and one apple version?


----------



## Arghavan

I wish you added LDAC EQ or Parametric EQ to catch up with Qudelix. No use for MQA scam here.


----------



## ClieOS

Arghavan said:


> I wish you added LDAC EQ or Parametric EQ to catch up with Qudelix. No use for MQA scam here.



Don't hold your breath over it. 

With the continue use of the aging CSR8675, chance of LDAC EQ or Parametric EQ happening is nil as the chip simply doesn't have that kind of processing power.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Strifeff7 said:


> To be fair the official time at full blast is just 1.5 hours,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 1.5 hours is the charging time from zero to 100%, i think. 

As i see this, nothing evolves on the new one, let alone the mqa support.

So nothing to worry about while owning the former iteration and to me, there's no progress at all.


----------



## r31ya

Strifeff7 said:


> To be fair the official time at full blast is just 1.5 hours,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 3.5mm is still at 80 mW, i was hoping if it been raised to 120mW so it'll power more headphones.


----------



## Stevko

sold my Schiit hel 2 today. considering btr5 for my philips x3 and my grado cans


----------



## Strifeff7 (Aug 19, 2021)

Chris Kaoss said:


> The 1.5 hours is the charging time from zero to 100%, i think.
> 
> As i see this, nothing evolves on the new one, let alone the mqa support.
> 
> So nothing to worry about while owning the former iteration and to me, there's no progress at all.


Agreed,
I don't think it's worth the upgrade if already own the old one,
waiting for a btr5 pro or something, 😅


----------



## r31ya

Stevko said:


> sold my Schiit hel 2 today. considering btr5 for my philips x3 and my grado cans


i've used BTR5 with Grado for very short period of time (on shop trials). its pretty good.
And Phillips openback is usually pretty easy to drive compared to like HifiMan planars which require the balanced cable to run.


----------



## Stevko

Now I want something easy to use. Too much mess with chromecast and a stationary dac/amp


----------



## r31ya (Aug 19, 2021)

Stevko said:


> Now I want something easy to use. Too much mess with chromecast and a stationary dac/amp


I guess either BTR5 or Shanling UP5 is in your list if you want something easy to use.
But if size doesn't bother you much, i recommend Xduoo XD05 series. Still have the stationary DAC sound, but it can be portable if needed.

Its been awhile since i tried Xduoo XD05, but as far as i remember it still sound better than BTR5 in Soundstage, layering, and clarity.


----------



## Stevko

I took a ifi xcan instead. A dealer gave me 35% off


----------



## FiiO

Strifeff7 said:


> Agreed,
> I don't think it's worth the upgrade if already own the old one,
> waiting for a btr5 pro or something, 😅


Dear friend,

Yes, actually the BTR5 is still worth buying now even though the BTR5 2021 will come soon. The users could consider updating or not according to their own need. 
In fact, half a year ago, we asked the supplier to place an order for 9218 for the next year. However, in the middle of the process, the chip manufacturer suddenly said that it would no longer produce 9218, so we were forced to choose 9219. Frankly speaking, we had no plans to update BTR5, but since the old BTR5 has been out of stock, we must make the new version as soon as possible in order to meet the purchasing needs of market. 

Best regards


----------



## Strifeff7

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Yes, actually the BTR5 is still worth buying now even though the BTR5 2021 will come soon. The users could consider updating or not according to their own need.
> In fact, half a year ago, we asked the supplier to place an order for 9218 for the next year. However, in the middle of the process, the chip manufacturer suddenly said that it would no longer produce 9218, so we were forced to choose 9219. Frankly speaking, we had no plans to update BTR5, but since the old BTR5 has been out of stock, we must make the new version as soon as possible in order to meet the purchasing needs of market.
> ...


I understand, 👍
the chip shortage have a huge impact on the industry right now,


----------



## DenunnScherd

Hello everyone, I'm a new member here.
I'm hard to choose between Fiio's New BTR5 and Hidizs S9 PRO since I just get my "old version" BTR5 a few months.
Seems not a big different between old and new BTR5, do this mean if I have the old one, I don't need to buy the new one?
Thanks.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

DenunnScherd said:


> Hello everyone, I'm a new member here.
> I'm hard to choose between Fiio's New BTR5 and Hidizs S9 PRO since I just get my "old version" BTR5 a few months.
> Seems not a big different between old and new BTR5, do this mean if I have the old one, I don't need to buy the new one?
> Thanks.


There's no reason to buy new BTR5 if you own old one. They just launched new version because ESS ran out of chips and Fiio were forced to revise the model


----------



## Pavel124 (Aug 20, 2021)

Do you think there is a problem with the CSR8675 chip? In the end, LDAC EQ worked on UP4 sort of.


----------



## 397324

The Hidizs S9 PRO is pretty ugly compared to the FiiO, especially with that bump at the top.


----------



## DenunnScherd (Aug 21, 2021)

Darren Cotter said:


> The Hidizs S9 PRO is pretty ugly compared to the FiiO, especially with that bump at the top.


I am attracted by S9 PRO's sound but not its outlooking.


----------



## ClieOS

Pavel124 said:


> Do you think there is a problem with the CSR8675 chip? In the end, LDAC EQ worked on UP4 sort of.



First, UP4 does NOT support EQ over LDAC. Secondly, it is not a problem per se on CSR8675, but simply because it is an outdated chip that is too slow to process EQ and LDAC at the same time.


----------



## r31ya (Aug 21, 2021)

DenunnScherd said:


> Hello everyone, I'm a new member here.
> I'm hard to choose between Fiio's New BTR5 and Hidizs S9 PRO since I just get my "old version" BTR5 a few months.
> Seems not a big different between old and new BTR5, do this mean if I have the old one, I don't need to buy the new one?
> Thanks.


Don't need to buy the new one, its an alternate due to production issues (chip shortage).
If you wanna buy a new one, its better to save up a bit more and buy an upgrade.

The dude above ended buying Ifi XCan which in some aspects are one step above BTR5 and have more powah to run Headphones.


----------



## Stevko

Btr5 in dac mode + xcan=  
1000mW instead of 225mW
I still need a dac for my xcan.
Maybe btr3 is a good thing, don’t need the power anymore


----------



## qsk78 (Aug 21, 2021)

r31ya said:


> The dude above ended buying Ifi XCan


Aptx only, same for the xDSD - if this is important. But yes, both sound good wirelessly.
The form factor is different. The price is different too)


----------



## Stevko

Plan too use it with a good tiny DAC
It needs 2v in


----------



## DenunnScherd

r31ya said:


> Don't need to buy the new one, its an alternate due to production issues (chip shortage).
> If you wanna buy a new one, its better to save up a bit more and buy an upgrade.
> 
> The dude above ended buying Ifi XCan which in some aspects are one step above BTR5 and have more powah to run Headphones.


But iFI XCan is an Amp only, not a DAC...


----------



## qsk78

DenunnScherd said:


> But iFI XCan is an Amp only, not a DAC...


This is a Bluetooth DAC/amp too on the ESS Sabre chip.


----------



## Stevko

No dac is good. Never goes obsolete
Dac does.


----------



## FiiO

Introduction to FiiO's Product Line and Update Plan in 2021--From James

*Chapter 4 BTR5 2021, the GOAT!*

Since the BTR1 was launched three years ago, FiiO has started its plan of conquering the bluetooth amp market. From BTR1, BTR3 to μBTR and BTR5, each of them has become a hot cake in the market. This production line can be praised as a success with hot sales and good reputation at home and abroad. What’s more surprising is that the BTR5, with higher price than BTR3, has managed to increase sales volume significantly.
The chip shortage has become more and more serious since 2021, the production of BTR5 hasn’t become an exception even if it doesn’t use chips from AKM . The supply of the chip that BTR5 used was promised by ESS Technology before, so we even placed an order for over hundred thousand Yuan. However, due to the limited capacity of production, ESS Technology can only prioritize the production of the chip with higher price, the ESS9219C, instead of the ESS9218 for BTR5.
In light of this, we had to start the BTR5 revision plan three months ago. Since the BTR5 is our main force in great market demand, we can only make as few changes as possible in order to resume supply as soon as possible. Other plans, for example extending battery life and adding 4.4mm port, are thus failed to proceed but to be delayed until 2022.
Compared with the old BTR5, the BTR5 2021 is mainly upgraded by a better DAC and support for MQA, which contribute to greater performance. In addition, conforming to the rising tide of Apple's high-definition lossless, we have specially introduced the BTR5 2021 L-C. It comes with a Lightning to Type C data cable in order to facilitate the users of Apple mobile phone.
At the same time, a convenient charging shutdown function has also been added for mobile phone users to avoid charging the device’s battery when the mobile phone is connected.
Appropriate usage scenarios
There are many occasions that we can make use of the BTR5. For one thing, it can serve as a bluetooth amp when connected with a mobile phone and play music via bluetooth. For another, it can connect to the mobile phone through a wired way as a dongle to provide higher-quality music. Besides, it can also be used as a mini portable amp, and to connect to PC/notebook and other digital devices.
The BTR5 2021 is suitable for users who have higher requirements for sound quality and portability. It is usually used with mobile phones.
For detailed information, see https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/545273.html


----------



## rootmax

Hello everyone! I recently bought a BTR5 but I noticed that connected with a USB-C cable to my Smartphone with the FiiO APP when I hear the music in DSD 64, 128 and 256 there are strong BUMPs when you change tracks, pause, resume play , etcetc ... any of you have this problem? Thanks


----------



## FiiO

rootmax said:


> Hello everyone! I recently bought a BTR5 but I noticed that connected with a USB-C cable to my Smartphone with the FiiO APP when I hear the music in DSD 64, 128 and 256 there are strong BUMPs when you change tracks, pause, resume play , etcetc ... any of you have this problem? Thanks


Dear friend,

Does the issue happen when playing PCM music files? Which app are you using? You may try to switch the usb output option to DOP to see whether it helps?

Best regards


----------



## rootmax

thank you for your kind reply ... 
with Flac and DXD songs it doesn't happen, only with DSDs set to "Native" with the FiiO APP player
If I put as USB output on "DoP" the noise is lowered a lot, an audible "click" remains but much lower
However with the "DoP" setting it does not read the DSD 256 says that the "format is not supported"
However, I got the BTR5 because it natively reads DSDs up to 256, so I really hope to solve it otherwise I'll have to return it


----------



## rootmax

I have now tested with Neutron Music Player and the problem has disappeared !! Used in native USB (direct USB, without conversions) it reads DSDs up to 256 (also indicated on the BTR5 display) quietly without noise !! But I would like to use the FiiO APP


----------



## Chris Kaoss

I'd recommend to stay with Neutron or heading to UAPP.


----------



## rootmax

Mmmmhhhh I believe I will do so...


----------



## rootmax

I'm trying UAPP (thanks for the advice, I didn't know this APP, I like it!) and here too no problem, it reads the native bit-perfect DSDs up to 256 without noise ... goodbye FiiO APP!


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Glad you've found the best solution for you.
Enjoy your music.


----------



## cleg

My video about the 2021 version


----------



## Joseph Lin

cleg said:


> My video about the 2021 version



So...minor improvement, not worthy of upgrading? Got it.


----------



## vmiguel

Joseph Lin said:


> So...minor improvement, not worthy of upgrading? Got it.


Yep. Even Fiio is saying that. It's only because of chip shortage.


----------



## Strifeff7

Yeah, the upgrade is early next year, BTR 7,
I hope it wont be too big,
same size with more power and better battery life would be ideal,


----------



## cleg

Joseph Lin said:


> So...minor improvement, not worthy of upgrading? Got it.


If you own BTR5 already, then upgrading won't give many benefits. But for those who are buying a new device, it has a few pleasant additions.



Strifeff7 said:


> same size with more power and better battery life would be ideal



Unfortunately, Tony Stark didn't invent Arc Reactor yet…


----------



## gordec

What's the best place to buy the 2021 BTR5? I'm in California. No one seems to have it.


----------



## FiiO

rootmax said:


> thank you for your kind reply ...
> with Flac and DXD songs it doesn't happen, only with DSDs set to "Native" with the FiiO APP player
> If I put as USB output on "DoP" the noise is lowered a lot, an audible "click" remains but much lower
> However with the "DoP" setting it does not read the DSD 256 says that the "format is not supported"
> However, I got the BTR5 because it natively reads DSDs up to 256, so I really hope to solve it otherwise I'll have to return it


Or you could also check with other app? Could it be a compatibility problem with the FiiO Music app and your mobile phone? And the DSD256 is supported in Native mode but not the DOP mode.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

gordec said:


> What's the best place to buy the 2021 BTR5? I'm in California. No one seems to have it.


Sorry that the BTR5 2021 is not available in oversea market yet.

Best regards


----------



## r31ya

Strifeff7 said:


> Yeah, the upgrade is early next year, BTR 7,
> I hope it wont be too big,
> same size with more power and better battery life would be ideal,


If Its comes out in the size of Shanling UP5 (a bit bigger than BTR5) but with bigger battery, more power and better antena, it would be awesome


----------



## SenorChang8 (Sep 25, 2021)

r31ya said:


> If Its comes out in the size of Shanling UP5 (a bit bigger than BTR5) but with bigger battery, more power and better antena, it would be awesome


Add in AptX Lossless, 4.4mm and 1> Ohm for my ideal spec.


----------



## carlmart

I need to buy a small, BT, headphone player to use with my bedroom TV. 

The one I bought from Aliexpress, which would be the way to buy Fiio, was a Neoteck NTK106. But I'm experiencing mute glitches during playback, and it's not the BT source that is causing them. 

I'm using another BT receiver device to feed the external loudspeakers, and its smoothly, no glitches. The Neoteck seems to be causing them. Distance is not the issue either, as it continues to happen close to the TV. 

So I'm looking for a BT receiver, and the Fiio BTR5 seems to fill the demands, although the price is not exactly cheap. Of course, that is a relative question, because there are more expensive units around. 

Besides the BTR3, that some might recommend, are there any other players I should take a look at?

Thanks!

Carlos


----------



## rlw6534 (Sep 26, 2021)

carlmart said:


> I need to buy a small, BT, headphone player to use with my bedroom TV.
> 
> The one I bought from Aliexpress, which would be the way to buy Fiio, was a Neoteck NTK106. But I'm experiencing mute glitches during playback, and it's not the BT source that is causing them.
> 
> ...



I believe the standard recommendations would be the Qudelix 5K and perhaps the Shanling UP4 or UP5.  The Radsone ES100 is a bit older but also capable.  They all have threads here on the forum for research.


----------



## carlmart

rlw6534 said:


> I believe the standard recommendations would be the Qudelix 5K and perhaps the Shanling UP3 or UP5.  The Radsone ES100 is a bit older but also capable.  They all have threads here on the forum for research.


Thanks. Shanling 5 is available from AE, but more expensive than Fiio's.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 25, 2021)

carlmart said:


> I need to buy a small, BT, headphone player to use with my bedroom TV.
> 
> The one I bought from Aliexpress, which would be the way to buy Fiio, was a Neoteck NTK106. But I'm experiencing mute glitches during playback, and it's not the BT source that is causing them.
> 
> ...


If you want budget option, BTR3K is decent option.
BTR5 have better sound but the connection is weaker.
Shanling UP4 is not bad either and it is cheaper than Fiio BTR5.

So somewhere, UP5=Qudelix=BTR5>UP4>BTR3K>UP2

There is upcoming Hiby W3 Saber and one other i forgot, the boxy one


----------



## LoryWiv (Sep 26, 2021)

r31ya said:


> If you want budget option, BTR3K is decent option.
> BTR5 have better sound but the connection is weaker.
> Shanling UP4 is not bad either and it is cheaper than Fiio BTR5.
> 
> ...


It will be interesting to see how this is one is priced. Looks to have substantially more output power. I currently love my BTR5 though, sound quality is really good with IEM's.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kb-ear-audio-impressions-thread.912673/post-16581793


----------



## r31ya (Sep 28, 2021)

LoryWiv said:


> It will be interesting to see how this is one is priced. Looks to have substantially more output power. I currently love my BTR5 though, sound quality is really good with IEM's.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kb-ear-audio-impressions-thread.912673/post-16581793





> *Specifications:*
> The highest supported format: hard decode 384K 32bit/DSD256(Native)
> Decoding: *Dual 9038Q2M*
> Output amplification type: Class A and B (Class AB)
> ...


From the battery capacity (KBear 5000mAh vs BTR5 550mAh), it seems to be a chungus of a units,
Its closer to Xduoo XD-05 or maybe Fiio Q3.
Good chance its $200+ territory.


----------



## carlmart

The Fiio BTR5 2021 is already selling at AE for $159. It has has two 9219 and certainly other things that justify the + $45 in the new version price.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...zxwsKV7Il1gN_vcRcSBgiHySBwdFgOdbsjAWJIb4FYjvw

I was thinking that perhaps I should wait till Black Friday, which is getting closer, and see if AE lowers the price a bit.


----------



## hmscott (Oct 2, 2021)

gordec said:


> What's the best place to buy the 2021 BTR5? I'm in California. No one seems to have it.


Hifigo is usually the first to Pre-Order new equipment, the first to list Pre-Order, and the first to deliver, at least for what I have purchased from them over the last couple of years.

I bought one of my original BTR5 pre-order's from them, the other from FiiO Selling on Amazon (not there yet), and then I bought Pre-Order FiiO M15 bundle, Pre-Order Topping D90 MQA + A90 bundle, BTR3K, along with IEM's and other accessories.

Hifigo has the new 2021 BTR5 listed for Pre-order for $129.99 right now:

Pre-Order Fiio BTR5 2021 MQA Portable Bluetooth Headphone Amplifier
https://hifigo.com/products/fiio-btr5-2021?variant=40970097918126

Via email I discussed the BTR5 2021 with them yesterday/today:
"We already pre-order it for long time, but brand will start to ship by order sequence after Oct, 15th."

Hifigo is usually right on the cutting edge of new releases, I watch their News Blog and watch their New Arrivals areas, and browse by Brand sorting by date:
https://hifigo.com/blogs/news
https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival

But sometimes you need to ask directly, if you "know" something is coming out but don't see it listed yet, you can ask support@Hifigo.com about it and ask for their help to get it for you.

When you do get your BTR5 please post images and initial reactions so we can share in your joy - while we wait for our own BTR5 2021 to arrive


----------



## soufiaj

Hey Guys,

This might be out of topic. 
While I am just recently switched back from Lotoo PAW S1, I was using my old 1st gen BTR5 on iPhone (wired) with OEAudio lightning to usb-c cable.

Then I recently  noticed that it can be bypassed to use as DAC on iOS 15.1 (beta). I no longer needed to turn off “charge” and it worked! Wondering if this is this an iOS bug or feature (to no longer limit power output from it’s lightning port) hmm can anyone confirm this?


----------



## cpaulik

Did anybody have success using the BTR5 as a bluetooth audio receiver for the Nintendo Switch?

I tried the new Switch feature yesterday. The Switch finds the BTR5. When selecting it the BTR5 shows ”RECONNECTING” and then the Switch reports an error.


----------



## SenorChang8

cpaulik said:


> Did anybody have success using the BTR5 as a bluetooth audio receiver for the Nintendo Switch?
> 
> I tried the new Switch feature yesterday. The Switch finds the BTR5. When selecting it the BTR5 shows ”RECONNECTING” and then the Switch reports an error.


Don’t think it’s possible, Fiio would be advertising such a feature if it could. The gaming market would be very successful for @FiiO could make compatible products for Nintendo, PlayStation etc.


----------



## HipHopScribe

SenorChang8 said:


> Don’t think it’s possible, Fiio would be advertising such a feature if it could. The gaming market would be very successful for @FiiO could make compatible products for Nintendo, PlayStation etc.



Nintendo added support for Bluetooth audio to the Switch recently. The Btr5 should work, not sure why it wouldn't


----------



## LoryWiv

I note Earmen is coming out with a larger portable DAC/amp, called Colibri. Awaiting specs, and also *wondering if Fiio has a new version planned, eg - BTR7?* I love my BTR5 but more power for full-sized headphones while preserving ablity to drive IEM's w/o hiss, other enhancements would be of interest and welcomed.


----------



## FiiO

cpaulik said:


> Did anybody have success using the BTR5 as a bluetooth audio receiver for the Nintendo Switch?
> 
> I tried the new Switch feature yesterday. The Switch finds the BTR5. When selecting it the BTR5 shows ”RECONNECTING” and then the Switch reports an error.


Dear friend,

Please try to set the BTR5 in pairing mode first. You could hold the multifunctional button for about 5s. Then the BTR5 will show pairing instead of reconnecting. And you could search and connect the BTR5 with the Switch at that time.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

LoryWiv said:


> I note Earmen is coming out with a larger portable DAC/amp, called Colibri. Awaiting specs, and also *wondering if Fiio has a new version planned, eg - BTR7?* I love my BTR5 but more power for full-sized headphones while preserving ablity to drive IEM's w/o hiss, other enhancements would be of interest and welcomed.


Dear friend,

Introduction to FiiO's Product Line and Update Plan in 2021--From James
https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202108211449366666112

Up till now, all the introduction to FiiO's players/decoders/Bluetooth products and update plan in 2021 have been posted. Now, it’s time to draw a summary.

Products that continue to be produced and sold after changing the design of the old model:

D03K, E10K, K3, K5 Pro, BTR5,

New products that already launched in 2021:

M11Plus LTD, K9 Pro (AKM version)

New products that waiting to be launched in 2021:

M11Plus (ESS version), M17, K9 Pro ESS, FW5, UTWS5, BTA30 Pro.

Discontinued models:

μBTR, M3K, M3 Pro, Q5S, BTR1K.

Suspended models:

Q1 MKⅡ, Q3.

Models that we can barely maintain normal production and sales:

BTR3K, UTWS3.

For customers who are planning to purchase, please pay close attention to FiiO and our official accounts.

So as you could read, we do not have the plan of other new BTR series product this year. Generally the life cycle of our products is about 18 to 24 months, and we will release new upgrade model based on the market competition and development progress.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Move your Music in Summer! Flagship Portable HiFi Bluetooth DAC and Amplifier BTR5 2021 Is Coming!​






In this autumn carnival, we should let ourselves out. FiiO’s new release, the BTR5 2021, the flagship portable HiFi Bluetooth DAC and amplifier will be there to really make your music come to life.



Fresh and quiet autumn days will not be short of pure sounds. The BTR5 2021 comes with two all-new ES9219C DACs, ensuring low power consumption yet with high SNR for wireless new sounds. Better performance, stronger decoding capacity.








With a new DAC scheme, the BTR5 2021 supports MQA Renderer, so that it can unfold MQA tracks on your mobile phone, allowing for rich, master-quality sound reproduction with high sampling rates in manageable file sizes.








In daily usage environments, the BTR5 2021 can work as a USB DAC/Amp. It supports a switch to the USB DAC/Amp mode by just a single tap. If a USB connection is detected, a selection menu will automatically pop up on the screen. At this time, press any button to disable the charging function and enter the USB DAC/Amp mode.








*Keep features of the BTR5 2021 include:*

--Dual high performance ES9219C DACs
--Qualcomm CSR8675
--XMOS XUF 208
--Supports MQA Renderer
--3.5mm+2.5mm headphone outputs
--FiiO Music App smart control

No more hesitation. Just refresh your music library and discover more surprises with the FiiO BTR5 2021.



To find out more about the BTR5 2021, please visit the product page on https://www.fiio.com/btr52021.



Best regards,

Guangzhou FiiO Electronics Technology Co., LTD.


----------



## FiiO

The BTR5 2021 is now available on our AliExpress Official Store. Click the link below to take it home right away:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html?spm=5261.ProductManageOnline.0.0.15744edfxfUxvM


----------



## Radio81

Does the 2021 version have better BT range than the original?  I'm wanting to upgraded from the BTR3K, but need the range to be similar.


----------



## FiiO

Radio81 said:


> Does the 2021 version have better BT range than the original?  I'm wanting to upgraded from the BTR3K, but need the range to be similar.


Same as the BTR5.

Best regards


----------



## shyamelge

Radio81 said:


> Does the 2021 version have better BT range than the original?  I'm wanting to upgraded from the BTR3K, but need the range to be similar.


Because of the same BT chip used in the 2021 model, the BT range would be the same. The newer Qualcomm chips (such as QCC5120, 21, 25...) have a far greater range than CSR8675. The newer chips are also more power-efficient. Look out for newer chips if the limited BT range of CSR8675 is a concern.


----------



## kgs51

shyamelge said:


> Because of the same BT chip used in the 2021 model, the BT range would be the same. The newer Qualcomm chips (such as QCC5120, 21, 25...) have a far greater range than CSR8675. The newer chips are also more power-efficient. Look out for newer chips if the limited BT range of CSR8675 is a concern.


Are you aware of models today that have those chips. My understanding is the range now for this is only 15 feet.


----------



## shyamelge

many products released in the past couple of months have newer chips. For instance, Shanling UP5. In this category, Qudelix 5K was perhaps the first one to use the newer chip.


----------



## kgs51

How would you compare the BTR5 to the Shanling UP5


----------



## Strifeff7

FiiO said:


> The BTR5 2021 is now available on our AliExpress Official Store. Click the link below to take it home right away:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000316761086.html?spm=5261.ProductManageOnline.0.0.15744edfxfUxvM


Does it support MQA in bluetooth mode?


----------



## SenorChang8

Strifeff7 said:


> Does it support MQA in bluetooth mode?



MQA only works via USB.


----------



## sg2k

With the 2021 Version is Dual-DAC Mode working with Single-Ended or only with Balanced Output like V1?


----------



## Aevum

is the fiio website down ? tried to download the latest firmware and it tells me site expired.


----------



## stuck limo

kgs51 said:


> How would you compare the BTR5 to the Shanling UP5



I'd like to know this too. I bought the BTR5 but am wondering if I should have gone with the UP5 instead.


----------



## jsmiller58

stuck limo said:


> I'd like to know this too. I bought the BTR5 but am wondering if I should have gone with the UP5 instead.


There is a Shanling UP5 thread here on Head-fi, and last time I was on it (some time ago) there were comparisons to the BTR5 and the Qudelix 5K.  You might want to check there as well.


----------



## FiiO

sg2k said:


> With the 2021 Version is Dual-DAC Mode working with Single-Ended or only with Balanced Output like V1?






Same as BTR5.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Aevum said:


> is the fiio website down ? tried to download the latest firmware and it tells me site expired.


Sorry about that. It is working fine again now.

Best regards


----------



## stuck limo

Has anyone received a shipping notice from HiFiGo yet on the 2021 version? I have not.


----------



## ccrys

Can I use btr5 as DAC using rca-jack cable + headphones amplifier like Topping E30/A50 with Sundara/LCD 2C/GL2000 ?

Will I have bad sound quality and insufficient power ? I mean some limitations instead using dedicated dac+amplifier.

So far I have this info:

BTR5 can apparently provide a max of 1.6 volts rms, possibly slightly more into the Atom's 3.5mm or RCA input sockets. [From its 2.5mm balanced output, it can provide a max of 2.77Vrms.


----------



## kgs51 (Oct 20, 2021)

Can you connect the BTR5 2021 to an iPhone 12 for a wired connection. Also is this unit a renderer or decoder of MQA.


----------



## Dobrescu George

If you love MQA, but also love Bluetooth and want a freeing solution to listen to your favorite IEMs, FiiO designed something new, or rather made their BTR5 Receiver even better this time! 

They made a 2021 variant of their popular BTR5, added MQA support, and upgraded the DAC chip, and now, after some serious testing, I can say for sure that if you listen to LDAC and enforce it to play in the proper resolution, you shouldn't hear any differences between LDAC and RedBook FLAC files or CDs  

At least, this is how it looks like when comparing the DAC mode vs the LDAC mode of the new BTR5. I made many more remarks and personal notes in today's full written review about the sequel to the most popular Bluetooth Receiver, the new FiiO BTR5 2021!! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/10/fiio-btr5-2021-mqa-freedom-at-the-end.html


----------



## jsmiller58

Dobrescu George said:


> If you love MQA, but also love Bluetooth and want a freeing solution to listen to your favorite IEMs, FiiO designed something new, or rather made their BTR5 Receiver even better this time!
> 
> They made a 2021 variant of their popular BTR5, added MQA support, and upgraded the DAC chip, and now, after some serious testing, I can say for sure that if you listen to LDAC and enforce it to play in the proper resolution, you shouldn't hear any differences between LDAC and RedBook FLAC files or CDs
> 
> ...


Really nice review!  I really like the BTR5 form factor (I have the original), but I will wait to upgrade until FiiO has support for EQ over LDAC, and they have improved the sub-par Bluetooth range.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jsmiller58 said:


> Really nice review!  I really like the BTR5 form factor (I have the original), but I will wait to upgrade until FiiO has support for EQ over LDAC, and they have improved the sub-par Bluetooth range.



Thank you for your kind words! 

Oh, I woudl wish for EQ on LDAC too, that would be really useful! I had to revert to aptX because there was no way to test the EQ over LDAC, can feel you there.

Bluetooth range seems decent on the 2021 BTR5, not sure if it changed much from the original, but I have been ok. Do you have a metallic case for your phone? That tends to be problematic usually, also some glass screen protectors did dampen BT range for me in the past


----------



## jsmiller58

Dobrescu George said:


> Thank you for your kind words!
> 
> Oh, I woudl wish for EQ on LDAC too, that would be really useful! I had to revert to aptX because there was no way to test the EQ over LDAC, can feel you there.
> 
> Bluetooth range seems decent on the 2021 BTR5, not sure if it changed much from the original, but I have been ok. Do you have a metallic case for your phone? That tends to be problematic usually, also some glass screen protectors did dampen BT range for me in the past


Thank you for taking the time to reply!     I only have a silicone case for my phone, so I don’t think that it is contributing to poor range.  I find (from memory) that the Qudelix 5K has much better range, but I will have to goback to these two and test it!


----------



## FiiO

kgs51 said:


> Can you connect the BTR5 2021 to an iPhone 12 for a wired connection. Also is this unit a renderer or decoder of MQA.


Dear friend,
1. Yes. 
Users of BTR5 2021 Standard Edition: please buy an extra Lightning to Type-C cable.
Users of BTR5 2021 Apple Edition: there is a Lightning to Type-C cable included in the accessory.
2. MQA render support.

Best regards


----------



## stuck limo

stuck limo said:


> Has anyone received a shipping notice from HiFiGo yet on the 2021 version? I have not.


----------



## BJames (Oct 22, 2021)

I received mine recently. Initial impressions: unit is well built. Can't comment on sound quality as I'm not an audiophile as I bought it to use with my recently bought Shure Aoinic 5s in Bluetooth mode with my iPhone and it ticks the box. Sound quality seems to be on par with 'wired without BTR5' setup.

Issues so far:
Suppled USB C to USB C cable's two ends seem to be thicker than standard USB C cables as I found it very stiff while plugging into Macbook and I'm pretty sure that cable will damage USB C ports on my devices so I won't use it again. I'm sure the other supplied USB cable will also be the same. Standard USB C cables work fine and thats more than sufficient for my needs. Likewise 3.5mm jack on the device also feels stuff which is a bit wierd. Ordered its leather case which I'll never use as it's supplied clip is very good for the need and it doesn't look too bad. Another annoying thing is using volume button setting to skip tracks is a very bad implementation which I dont think poduct team bothered to think through. If a firmware update with app update can fix it, it wil be good. Plus there is a noticeable lag (lipsync issue) while watching Youtube videos.


----------



## civciv (Oct 22, 2021)

@FiiO any chance to get "USB Audio Adapter" mode for the original BTR5?


----------



## sidpost

Is this updated FiiO BTR5 2021 a good match for the *Beyerdynamic DT 177X GO* from DROP/MASSDROP?  Or, am I better off with some other option?
FWIW, I use Windows laptops and, Android-based tablets and phone.  I don't see an iPhone in my future but I occasionly use an Apple iPad.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sidpost said:


> Is this updated FiiO BTR5 2021 a good match for the *Beyerdynamic DT 177X GO* from DROP/MASSDROP?  Or, am I better off with some other option?
> FWIW, I use Windows laptops and, Android-based tablets and phone.  I don't see an iPhone in my future but I occasionly use an Apple iPad.



Should be fairly good.


----------



## LoryWiv

BJames said:


> I received mine recently. Initial impressions: unit is well built. Can't comment on sound quality as I'm not an audiophile as I bought it to use with my recently bought Shure Aoinic 5s in Bluetooth mode with my iPhone and it ticks the box. Sound quality seems to be on par with 'wired without BTR5' setup.
> 
> Issues so far:
> Suppled USB C to USB C cable's two ends seem to be thicker than standard USB C cables as I found it very stiff while plugging into Macbook and I'm pretty sure that cable will damage USB C ports on my devices so I won't use it again. I'm sure the other supplied USB cable will also be the same. Standard USB C cables work fine and thats more than sufficient for my needs. Likewise 3.5mm jack on the device also feels stuff which is a bit wierd. Ordered its leather case which I'll never use as it's supplied clip is very good for the need and it doesn't look too bad. Another annoying thing is using volume button setting to skip tracks is a very bad implementation which I dont think poduct team bothered to think through. If a firmware update with app update can fix it, it wil be good. Plus there is a *noticeable lag (lipsync issue) while watching Youtube* videos.


I believe it supports low latency mode which may help.


----------



## FiiO

civciv said:


> @FiiO any chance to get "USB Audio Adapter" mode for the original BTR5?


Thanks for the kind feedback. 

We will report to the product manger for assessing about that. 


Best regards


----------



## FiiO

*   FiiO BTR5 2021 Bluetooth Receiver will be in stock soon on *amazon.com*, you could order it now!*

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09G9XDCWB?ref=myi_title_dp&th=1


----------



## FiiO (Nov 11, 2021)

*BTR5 2021/BTR5 2021 L-C are on the way to our worldwide sales agents!*








Dear respected customers,

Thank you for your kind patience and constant attention for our BTR5 2021. Delivery of the BTR5 2021 has started from 25th, October. Please kindly check this post for a daily updated list of countries / regions and agents we have sent goods to.



Thailand: Holysai

USA: USA distributor

HongKong: Carve Link Company

Germany: NT Global Distribution GmbH

TaiWan: Taiwan distributor

Australia: Addicted To Audio

France: Son Video

Switzerland: Portacomp AG

Netherlands: Fiio.nl

UK: EA Audio

Canada: Canadian distributor

Mexico: Audiofilia Mexico

Bulgaria: Bestline l.t.d

Romanian distributor: AVstore

Turkey distributor

Poland: Audio Magic

India: Headphone Zone

Ukraine: Avero

Lithuania: UAB Audio guru

Japan: Emilai

Estonia: Mamear AS

Poland: MIP 

Finland: Hifitalo.fi

UKraine: TOV “ELTO” , Avero

Turkey: Hes Audio

Norway: Siv. Ing. Njål Hansson AS

Belarus: Magnit Invest

(* The shipping to other regions will also follow soon, and we will keep updating this post)

In order to get prompt pre-sales and after-sales service, we strongly suggest you to buy FiiO products from our authorized sales agents (Where to buy).

By our estimate, it would take 8 to 12 working days for the parcels to reach our agents abroad, which means all of you can try contacting the local sales agents on about 3rd November.

If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to contact us or directly contact our local agents.

Happy listening!

Best regards,
FiiO Electronics Technology Co., Ltd.


----------



## kgs51 (Oct 26, 2021)

Can you stream music such as Tidal when using as a dac. I want to be able to connect to my iPhone 12 and listen to music using the mqa through Tidal. What cable can I use to connect the iphone to the Btr 5 2021?


----------



## rlw6534

kgs51 said:


> Can you stream music such as Tidal when using as a dac. I want to be able to connect to my iPhone 12 and listen to music using the mqa through Tidal. What cable can I use to connect the iphone to the Btr 5 2021?



Yes, it should work with Tidal and MQA.  You need the BTR5 2021 L-C version which comes with a lightning cable or you can buy Fiio LT-LT1 cable separately.  There are also other brands of lightning to USB-C cables out there.


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## kgs51

Thanks for the information


----------



## BJames

kgs51 said:


> Can you stream music such as Tidal when using as a dac. I want to be able to connect to my iPhone 12 and listen to music using the mqa through Tidal. What cable can I use to connect the iphone to the Btr 5 2021?


Yes. MQA works if connected via the cable to iPhone. Make sure you have Fiio's lightning to USB C cable as Apple's cable that comes with iPhone doesn't detect the DAC.


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## kgs51

Thank you for the information about the cable.


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## FiiO (Oct 28, 2021)

Now we have two new OTG cable in stock! ​
FiiO LT-LT3 Type-C to Lightning OTG Cable for iOS Connect BTR5 BTR3K Q3 Q5S-TC K9Pro(20CM): ​https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003461497342.html




FiiO LT-TC3 Type-C to Type C OTG Cable for Android Xiaomi/HuaWei Connect BTR5 BTR3K Q3 Q5S-TC K9Pro(20CM):​https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003461483817.html


----------



## kgs51 (Oct 28, 2021)

Are there any good wired headphones that will accept 2.55 mm Output jack for balanced cable


----------



## sidpost

kgs51 said:


> Are there any good wired headphones that will accept 2.55 mm Output jack for balanced cable


With a custom cable, you could connect almost anything.  There are probably adaptors on eBay or Amazon among many options that would do this as well.  Focal, Sennheiser, and Beyerdynamics have various models with adaptors included to consider.


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## kgs51

Thank you. I will check this out.


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## kgs51

I found headphones Meze 99 neo that you can purchase a 2.5 mm balance cable for. I plan to connect the headphones to the BTR5 2021 throught the 2.5 mm jack. If this is connected to my iphone 12 then the sound should be balanced. Is this correct.


----------



## megabigeye

kgs51 said:


> I found headphones Meze 99 neo that you can purchase a 2.5 mm balance cable for. I plan to connect the headphones to the BTR5 2021 throught the 2.5 mm jack. If this is connected to my iphone 12 then the sound should be balanced. Is this correct.


Yes, that would be balanced. 
I don't see the point in this, though... The balanced output is for high impedance / low sensitivity 'phones. The only difference between the balanced and single-ended is that balanced is 6dB louder. It shouldn't be necessary for those headphones.


----------



## r31ya (Oct 30, 2021)

I get a second hand Aria and hears static noise on some song, i thought it was my second hand aria or its old balanced cable that making the noise
After changing cable, tips, filters, and sources, it seems its the source that cause the noise.

apparently my BTR5 develop static noises and it getting somewhat more audible in many songs.
is there any fix for this?


----------



## scarfacegt

Can i use the btr5 as an dac with my samsung note 10 plus and ifixcan? btr as dac an xcan as amp?


----------



## r31ya (Oct 30, 2021)

scarfacegt said:


> Can i use the btr5 as an dac with my samsung note 10 plus and ifixcan? btr as dac an xcan as amp?


I think saw Zeos use BTR5 as DAC and then connect it to Oppo Amp or he use different bluetooth dongle to that oppo amp


----------



## kgs51

Has anyone heard the Ifi audio hip dac 2. Is this better or same as btr5 2021 relative to sound quality


----------



## r31ya

kgs51 said:


> Has anyone heard the Ifi audio hip dac 2. Is this better or same as btr5 2021 relative to sound quality


Haven't heard it, but some store owner points out IFI to me for upgrade from my Dragonfly black or BTR5.

In an outline, its depend on your need, IFI Hip DAC 2 is by far larger than BTR5.
With its size, it came with bigger battery and much more power. Enough power to run more thirsty Headphones.
It also pricier which helps it to have better hardware (better Xmos for PC-DAC)

But its no small bluetooth dongle (XDSD is the bluetooth one). so slightly different usability.


----------



## kgs51

Ok. Thanks for your reply


----------



## FiiO

r31ya said:


> I get a second hand Aria and hears static noise on some song, i thought it was my second hand aria or its old balanced cable that making the noise
> After changing cable, tips, filters, and sources, it seems its the source that cause the noise.
> 
> apparently my BTR5 develop static noises and it getting somewhat more audible in many songs.
> is there any fix for this?


Dear friend,

Which output are you using? And does the same issue remain when using another headphone?

Best regards


----------



## r31ya (Nov 2, 2021)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Which output are you using? And does the same issue remain when using another headphone?
> 
> Best regards


I tried it with both 3.5mm and 2.5mm and both have occasional crackling noise. 
It begun crackling with the 2.5mm jack on certain songs like beginning part of Hayley Sorry.
Later it begun to pops out in 3.5mm as well, spread to multiple songs from lewis capaldi to normal youtube vids.
It seems the crackling static noise louder in 2.5mm jack.

Before i know its BTR5 that causes the sound, 
i have tried to change the cable of the iem from 2.5mm to 3.5mm.
i have tried to change from iem to headphone.
i have tried to change from phone bluetooth to laptop wired.
The crackling noise still there, so i concluded it caused by BTR5.

In recommendation by fellow BTR5 user in Reddit, he ask to alter the setting through fiio app.
I rarely change use the app or change the setting until this moment.
I change from Apo2 to Apo1, and raise the load from somewhat default 8 to 32
The crackling noise volume seems to be reduced after the change. 
It seems to be barely there with 3.5mm through spotify bluetooth by still there in youtube vids.
And it still definitely there but either lower in volume or i get used to it on wired laptop usage.

Weirdly now, while using youtube, normal video barely cause the crackling static but music video does.
Not sure whether its triggered by sound in certain freq or something else.

oh, to note my Fiio BTR5 is nearly 1.5 year old and is my daily driver.  always in the plastic clip for protection and easier carry.
used for blueooth dongle for smartphone during work or travel and used as USB DAC for my laptop at home.
---
edited for easier read,
---
Anyhow thank you for the response


----------



## Nas Volokin

Hello guys.
I was just wondering how is BTR5 paired with Fiio's FD5?
I was just considering it as my on-the-go solution...


----------



## rlw6534

Nas Volokin said:


> Hello guys.
> I was just wondering how is BTR5 paired with Fiio's FD5?
> I was just considering it as my on-the-go solution...



I have used my FD5 with the BTR5 with no issues at all.  I am using 2.5 mm balanced; easy to do with the FD5 swappable plugs...


----------



## SenorChang8

Nas Volokin said:


> Hello guys.
> I was just wondering how is BTR5 paired with Fiio's FD5?
> I was just considering it as my on-the-go solution...



It pairs really well with the 2.5m balanced output, more than enough power for on-the-go. FD5 responds well to EQ too.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Thanks guys thats what I wanted to hear!


----------



## Ichos

BTR5 (old version) is very linear and neutral so it is a pretty good match with everything so I wouldn't worry.
Power from the balanced output is more than enough.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Yeah I was actually thinking of getting KA3, but I can tell BTR5 is so versatile!


----------



## Ichos

If you need the battery and the Bluetooth then it a safe choice.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Ichos said:


> BTR5 (old version) is very linear and neutral so it is a pretty good match with everything so I wouldn't worry.
> Power from the balanced output is more than enough.


How about the new version, I don't think there's a big difference, only MQA added and newer ESS chip


----------



## rlw6534

Nas Volokin said:


> How about the new version, I don't think there's a big difference, only MQA added and newer ESS chip



They couldn't get the original ESS9218 BTR5 chip from ESS anymore and went with the more expensive ESS9219C that has built-in MQA.  The specs are otherwise similar.

"The chip shortage has become more and more serious since 2021, the production of BTR5 hasn’t become an exception even if it doesn’t use chips from AKM . The supply of the chip that BTR5 used was promised by ESS Technology before, so we even placed an order for over hundred thousand Yuan. However, due to the limited capacity of production, ESS Technology can only prioritize the production of the chip with higher price, the ESS9219C, instead of the ESS9218 for BTR5."


----------



## Ichos

Nas Volokin said:


> How about the new version, I don't think there's a big difference, only MQA added and newer ESS chip


In theory they should have some minor sound differences due to the difference chip.
I don't own it so I can't comment any further.


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## Nas Volokin (Nov 10, 2021)

I don't need MQA anyway because I don't use Tidal for now So I guess it's fine to go with either one, but I'm leaning towards the new one 'cause you never know
Hope it's a small sound difference, not that it's gonna be a night and day for me anyway


----------



## FiiO

FiiO said:


> *BTR5 2021/BTR5 2021 L-C are on the way to our worldwide sales agents!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lists have been updated!


----------



## kgs51

I want to use this unit for my iphone and dap and my bluetooth headphones only. What are the benefits of having this if I don't use with wired headphones. My understanding is that wireless headphones have their own internal dac and amplifier. I am new to this and just need a better explanation. Thanks.


----------



## Ichos

kgs51 said:


> I want to use this unit for my iphone and dap and my bluetooth headphones only. What are the benefits of having this if I don't use with wired headphones. My understanding is that wireless headphones have their own internal dac and amplifier. I am new to this and just need a better explanation. Thanks.


You can't use it like that, it is a Bluetooth receiver only that outputs analogue signal for wired headphones.
So it will not connect to your Bluetooth headphones and then as you said the Bluetooth headphones have their own internal DAC.
So the BTR5 is only for wired headphones.


----------



## Eiffel (Nov 12, 2021)

I just got my BTR5 2021 today.
Sound is ok - in fact the new chispet is the old one with added MQA capabilities - so just an update not upgrade. Same specs. The filters however are downgraded from 6 to only 2 - Fast and Hybrid Fast.
Menu it's a bit weird at first sight - need some time to accomodate.
Works well with my Huawei P30 on both Bluetooth and USB - with UAPP - actually this is the first DAC working ok. Some like Sabaj Da2 had some heavy noise over the music.
The leather cover sold separately for BTR5 works fine also on this - same dimensions.

Downsides...
1 - the cables just suck - especially the USB-A to USB-C one. Does not fit well in the BTR5 - it took me an hour trying to use it as USB DAC on my PC - not seen by the PC.
In the end I've remembered that I have an other cable from my M5 - a lot longer - not so short like tjhe one in the TR5 box - With this it was instantly recognized. The one provided seems to work only to charge it 
2 - Possible firmware issues ? From time to time it disconnects, even on cable. Two time I founf it shut down by itself - had to start again. Three times I had to disconect the cable and connect again.

Still in testing for this weekend.


----------



## Ichos

It is also compatible with the FiiO Control app where you can perform more adjustments.
You need to be in Bluetooth to access it.


----------



## Eiffel

Yes. I have it on my phone.
Did some settings with it.


----------



## BringingthePhunk

I'm not sure if this is possible with just a phone and a BT unit (specifically I have the BT3 but it should be the same for the BT5, right?), but could it be set up to have a bluetooth connection from a phone to a BT unit, and then AUX into a car, and have the controls be handled from the vehicle steering wheel?

I can control the volume , but that's just adjusting the volume in the car probably, and not the volume from the BT unit itself. It would be nice to be able to seek, skip, and pause and so on from the steering wheel controls but I don't know how to set that up. Is there a feature like that in the Fiio app maybe, or does anyone have a suggestion on how to set this up? Basically to control phone media while connected to the BT with vehicle controls.


----------



## FiiO

Eiffel said:


> I just got my BTR5 2021 today.
> Sound is ok - in fact the new chispet is the old one with added MQA capabilities - so just an update not upgrade. Same specs. The filters however are downgraded from 6 to only 2 - Fast and Hybrid Fast.
> Menu it's a bit weird at first sight - need some time to accomodate.
> Works well with my Huawei P30 on both Bluetooth and USB - with UAPP - actually this is the first DAC working ok. Some like Sabaj Da2 had some heavy noise over the music.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. Is it in low power when it turn off?  Or you may check whether other cable work?

We apologize for any inconvenience in the meantime!

Best regards


----------



## Eiffel

Hi. Checked on PC with the M5 cable, as the provided USB-A to USB-C works only to charge - no data transfer.
It turns off or lose connection during music playback. So no low power.
Happened after 10 minutes or after an hour. Even in the middle of the song.
Might be the Beta driver ? As I've tested with his cable an saw it doesn't get recognized with 4.47 I've updated the driver. It didn't work however so I've changed the cable but didn't change the driver again.
Using JRiver for playback on PC.
Used it yesterday for Bluetooth playback from my phone and didn't made any problems this time.

And something else - the old M5 had some protective foil in the package from what I understand from other users - this one has none.
Not a big problem as I bought also the leather case, but I'm curious.


----------



## r31ya

Eiffel said:


> I just got my BTR5 2021 today.
> Sound is ok - in fact the new chispet is the old one with added MQA capabilities - so just an update not upgrade. Same specs. The filters however are downgraded from 6 to only 2 - Fast and Hybrid Fast.
> Menu it's a bit weird at first sight - need some time to accomodate.
> Works well with my Huawei P30 on both Bluetooth and USB - with UAPP - actually this is the first DAC working ok. Some like Sabaj Da2 had some heavy noise over the music.
> ...


I think you have faulty cable, you should try the cable with your phone or something. if it didn't connect, yeah its a dead cable.
You could try to install BTR5/Q5 app from Fiio website, maybe it'll help with your possible firmware issues


----------



## FiiO

Eiffel said:


> Hi. Checked on PC with the M5 cable, as the provided USB-A to USB-C works only to charge - no data transfer.
> It turns off or lose connection during music playback. So no low power.
> Happened after 10 minutes or after an hour. Even in the middle of the song.
> Might be the Beta driver ? As I've tested with his cable an saw it doesn't get recognized with 4.47 I've updated the driver. It didn't work however so I've changed the cable but didn't change the driver again.
> ...


Dear friend,

You may try to check via another usb port as well. Can the cable work fine with other device instead?

Best regards


----------



## Eiffel

Clearly the USB-A to USB-C cable provided has no data transfer. Also need some force to push it in the player connector.
Tried in several ports, and on another PC. Also tried with M5.
The USB-C to USB-C cable provided has no issues.

It remains to check in time and on different PC's also different driver to see if the connection/shut down issue persists.


----------



## ilianto

Hey all. Anyone knows why charging of the BTR5 stops at random when I plug it to my Pixel 3a with USB?


----------



## FiiO

ilianto said:


> Hey all. Anyone knows why charging of the BTR5 stops at random when I plug it to my Pixel 3a with USB?


The  BTR5 has charging protection detection. When the output voltage from power supply is below 4.6V the charging will stop.

Best regards


----------



## ilianto (Nov 18, 2021)

FiiO said:


> The  BTR5 has charging protection detection. When the output voltage from power supply is below 4.6V the charging will stop.
> 
> Best regards


Thank you for the quick reply. Does that mean that phones in general drop voltage while they charge the BTR5 or just the Pixel?? It doesn't happen all the time... Or does it depend on how much power the phone uses at that time? I mean, if I do something on the phone that draws power, it might drop the voltage of the USB port?
Also, is it a problem in the long run if I charge with a fast 25W PD charger? It gets a little hotter but charges much faster.


----------



## Eiffel

A small update about my BTR5 2021 - beside the defective cable it seems that the disconnection issue was driver related - I removed the beta driver and installed the 4.47 and no more issues - already a week since.


----------



## ashish7adlakha

Got my Fiio BTR-5 2021 model and it froze and isn't turning on now. I had to force shut it down now it won't turn on. When i try to enter DFU mode , "DFU" appears on the screen for 1 sec and then disappears, but my PC isn't able to recognise the device. I was able to get firmware for 2021 model from fiio support. Can someone help me with what i am doing wrong or what i should do to get my PC recognise it so that i can reflash the firmware?


----------



## rlw6534

ashish7adlakha said:


> Got my Fiio BTR-5 2021 model and it froze and isn't turning on now. I had to force shut it down now it won't turn on. When i try to enter DFU mode , "DFU" appears on the screen for 1 sec and then disappears, but my PC isn't able to recognise the device. I was able to get firmware for 2021 model from fiio support. Can someone help me with what i am doing wrong or what i should do to get my PC recognise it so that i can reflash the firmware?



Didi you install the driver for DFU mode?  For the original BTR5 "DPInstall.bat" contained in the firmware package installs the correct driver.


----------



## ashish7adlakha

rlw6534 said:


> Didi you install the driver for DFU mode?  For the original BTR5 "DPInstall.bat" contained in the firmware package installs the correct driver.


Yes, i did that but nothing happened after runnning DPInstall.bat on my Windows 10 pc, just a window opened and then it closed and then nothing happend. I also double checked that the wire I used and the usb port and they are working properly so I returned the device back to the seller, maybe he can get it fixed or provide me a replacement but frankly i am afraid to get a replacement because a few people on reddit have also been getting the same issue with 2021 model and their device is also not being detected in DFU mode as well.


----------



## rlw6534

ashish7adlakha said:


> Yes, i did that but nothing happened after runnning DPInstall.bat on my Windows 10 pc, just a window opened and then it closed and then nothing happend. I also double checked that the wire I used and the usb port and they are working properly so I returned the device back to the seller, maybe he can get it fixed or provide me a replacement but frankly i am afraid to get a replacement because a few people on reddit have also been getting the same issue with 2021 model and their device is also not being detected in DFU mode as well.



Sorry it was no help.  Just an idea...


----------



## Nas Volokin

Hello guys, I have this weird question: I'm using Tidal HiFi on both my phone and pc! The thing is I played tracks on UAPP using Tidal and connecting through BTR5 and it shows only 44.1 kHz on HD tracks, the same appears on the pc! When I'm not using UAPP and the Tidal app itself it shows 48 kHz but the volume is significantly reduced. Is this normal, am I doing something wrong? Do I need to set something in UAPP/Fiio Control Panel?


----------



## FiiO

Nas Volokin said:


> Hello guys, I have this weird question: I'm using Tidal HiFi on both my phone and pc! The thing is I played tracks on UAPP using Tidal and connecting through BTR5 and it shows only 44.1 kHz on HD tracks, the same appears on the pc! When I'm not using UAPP and the Tidal app itself it shows 48 kHz but the volume is significantly reduced. Is this normal, am I doing something wrong? Do I need to set something in UAPP/Fiio Control Panel?


Dear friend,

Do you mean the MQA file or which audio quality are you selecting in the Tidal app?
Did you disable the 'Loudness normalization' in th Tidal app? As for in the computer, you would need to switch passthrough MQA function to off as well.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

ashish7adlakha said:


> Yes, i did that but nothing happened after runnning DPInstall.bat on my Windows 10 pc, just a window opened and then it closed and then nothing happend. I also double checked that the wire I used and the usb port and they are working properly so I returned the device back to the seller, maybe he can get it fixed or provide me a replacement but frankly i am afraid to get a replacement because a few people on reddit have also been getting the same issue with 2021 model and their device is also not being detected in DFU mode as well.


So sorry about that. We have reported to the engineer to check about that. Currently, this issue could not be solved by yourself.  You may need to contact the seller for replacement. 
And if you are convenient, could you please inform us are there any certain operation before this issue happen? Thanks in advanced! 

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

ilianto said:


> Thank you for the quick reply. Does that mean that phones in general drop voltage while they charge the BTR5 or just the Pixel?? It doesn't happen all the time... Or does it depend on how much power the phone uses at that time? I mean, if I do something on the phone that draws power, it might drop the voltage of the USB port?
> Also, is it a problem in the long run if I charge with a fast 25W PD charger? It gets a little hotter but charges much faster.


Yes, the output voltage from the usb port of the mobile phone may drop when it could not charge the BTR5.
The BTR5 does not suppor fast charging. If your PD charger could support 5V 2A output, it could work with the BTR5 as well.

Best regards


----------



## ashish7adlakha

FiiO said:


> So sorry about that. We have reported to the engineer to check about that. Currently, this issue could not be solved by yourself.  You may need to contact the seller for replacement.
> And if you are convenient, could you please inform us are there any certain operation before this issue happen? Thanks in advanced!
> 
> Best regards


This issue arised while I was listening to audio on LG CX tv via Bluetooth and wanted to change the EQ settings so I connected to iPhone 11 bluetooth as well but the audio started getting choppy so i turned off iPhone 11 bluetooth and after disconnecting the audio started playing properly from LG CX. Then I saw that the device wasn't responding to button presses (but audio was still playing) so I had to forcibly shut down the device by holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. After that I could never get it to turn on, I see charging bars (when the device is off) and enter DFU mode but can not turn it on, If the device is off and charging and I press the power button for 2 seconds to turn it on, the charging bars get stuck on the display and nothing happens. After that i have to forcibly shut it down by holding the power button for more than 10 seconds.


----------



## Nas Volokin

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Do you mean the MQA file or which audio quality are you selecting in the Tidal app?
> Did you disable the 'Loudness normalization' in th Tidal app? As for in the computer, you would need to switch passthrough MQA function to off as well.
> ...


Yes I think I figured it out 😊 There was an option for MQA within UAPP itself, it's a paid option but its worth it, now I get it to work through btr5 with no issues.As for the PC yes I did disable passthrough MQA and loudness


----------



## FiiO

ashish7adlakha said:


> This issue arised while I was listening to audio on LG CX tv via Bluetooth and wanted to change the EQ settings so I connected to iPhone 11 bluetooth as well but the audio started getting choppy so i turned off iPhone 11 bluetooth and after disconnecting the audio started playing properly from LG CX. Then I saw that the device wasn't responding to button presses (but audio was still playing) so I had to forcibly shut down the device by holding the power button for more than 10 seconds. After that I could never get it to turn on, I see charging bars (when the device is off) and enter DFU mode but can not turn it on, If the device is off and charging and I press the power button for 2 seconds to turn it on, the charging bars get stuck on the display and nothing happens. After that i have to forcibly shut it down by holding the power button for more than 10 seconds.


Thank  you! Our engineer are trying their best to solve this issue soon. We apologize for any inconvenience in the meantime!

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Nas Volokin said:


> Yes I think I figured it out 😊 There was an option for MQA within UAPP itself, it's a paid option but its worth it, now I get it to work through btr5 with no issues.As for the PC yes I did disable passthrough MQA and loudness


So can  you get MQA display in BTR5 2021 when playing in PC now? 





Best regards


----------



## Nas Volokin

FiiO said:


> So can  you get MQA display in BTR5 2021 when playing in PC now?
> 
> 
> Best regards


Nope I cannot.I guess it's because I haven't upgraded to Master HiFi lol. The thing that brothers me it's I have downloaded Amazon HD music for free 3 months on my phone I can't get it to play more than 48 khz. I have read several forums about this issue but couldn't figure it out yet. I'm using Android 11 on Xiaomi mi 10 and tried developer options but nothing works. I guess it's due to using UAPP while in DAC mode and somehow it prevents other apps of using btr5 s potential. While playing through UAPP both tidal and stored FLAC on my phone are displayed correctly,even MQA! I guess there's nothing I can do much about it lols


----------



## 397324

Hi. Is it worth upgrading from the original to the 2021 version? AdvancedMP3players are offering a 15% discount code for today, so now would be the time.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Darren Cotter said:


> Hi. Is it worth upgrading from the original to the 2021 version? AdvancedMP3players are offering a 15% discount code for today, so now would be the time.


If you don't really care about MQA support it's fine to stick with the older model. I am using it on UAPP but really I don't have those trained ears to hear any difference between MQA and HiFi audio. There are also less filters on the 2021 if you care for them - now they have Hybrid fast roll-off and Fast roll-off (they do make a difference to my ears lol). Other than that it's basically the same but with newer ESS chip and MQA support


----------



## 397324

Thanks for the reply. You've just saved me some money!


----------



## Nas Volokin

Darren Cotter said:


> Thanks for the reply. You've just saved me some money!


Yeah well, they're both priced almost the same if I'm not mistaken and you get the MQA as a bonus, I still further testing it but apart from Tidal I don't know where this can be used


----------



## Eiffel

Well 2021 version is a bit more expensive - probably the MQA licence for the chip. I got it at same price but as Black Friday discount.
But older version is hard to find now.

Did a test now to connect to a Fiio M5 running as USB Host. Didn't know why it;s not working until I get the volume louder...
Must set one of the two with the volume at maximum in order to work, preferably the M5. 

Pitty FiiO doesn't have a player using the dual DAC section of BTR5.


----------



## rlw6534

Eiffel said:


> Pitty FiiO doesn't have a player using the dual DAC section of BTR5.



It's called the Shanling M3x...


----------



## Nas Volokin

Listening to this on my FD5 on BTR5 is such a great experience, amazing 😱😀


----------



## Eiffel

rlw6534 said:


> It's called the Shanling M3x...


Or Hidizs AP80 Pro, or HiBy R3 Pro Saber, or...
Just not FiiO.
They have the M3Pro using one DAC, but not the same...
Maybe a future M7 Pro ? To have also FM Radio ?


----------



## 397324

Nas Volokin said:


> Yeah well, they're both priced almost the same if I'm not mistaken and you get the MQA as a bonus, I still further testing it but apart from Tidal I don't know where this can be used


Hi. I already have the original version.


----------



## rlw6534

Eiffel said:


> Or Hidizs AP80 Pro, or HiBy R3 Pro Saber, or...
> Just not FiiO.
> They have the M3Pro using one DAC, but not the same...
> Maybe a future M7 Pro ? To have also FM Radio ?



Well, the M3X uses the exact same DAC (ES9219C) in dual configuration as BTR5 2021, which was my point.  The others are the same as old BTR5, correct?


----------



## max111

Hi, is it possible to use BTR5 2021 with iPhone by just using a lightning cable? Thought it is not possible to do so but Fiio website said otherwise plus there is a package that comes with a lightning cable.


----------



## rlw6534

max111 said:


> Hi, is it possible to use BTR5 2021 with iPhone by just using a lightning cable? Thought it is not possible to do so but Fiio website said otherwise plus there is a package that comes with a lightning cable.



Yes, I'm able to use my original BTR5 with my iPad and iPad.  You do need a lightning to usb-c cable, like the LT-LT1:  https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/609228.html

I do believe that FiiO sells it as a package if you you can find it.


----------



## max111

rlw6534 said:


> Yes, I'm able to use my original BTR5 with my iPad and iPad.  You do need a lightning to usb-c cable, like the LT-LT1:  https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/609228.html
> 
> I do believe that FiiO sells it as a package if you you can find it.


Thanks, I do have that cable and some other lightning cables. May I know if there is a need to adjust any settings (phone or fiio app) or just simply plug and play?


----------



## rlw6534

max111 said:


> Thanks, I do have that cable and some other lightning cables. May I know if there is a need to adjust any settings (phone or fiio app) or just simply plug and play?



It should detect the BTR5/DAC and just work.   You should turn charging off on the BTR5 to prevent power drain issues or warnings/errors.


----------



## max111

rlw6534 said:


> It should detect the BTR5/DAC and just work.   You should turn charging off on the BTR5 to prevent power drain issues or warnings/errors.


Thanks. Manage to get it work with a type c to type c cable and a type c to lightning otg adaptor. Will try the other lightning cable and see if any work.


----------



## zxc7777 (Dec 6, 2021)

1


----------



## hmscott (Dec 26, 2021)

The BTR5 2021 MAP price is going up $10 Monday, for all retailers... It's only $10, but hey it's money to save by buying this weekend. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post.692119/post-16719649
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post.692119/post-16730303


----------



## TomAndries

psikey said:


> Think Solaris is 10 Ohm while my SE846's are 8 Ohm. There's none with my SE846's.


I have SE846, and considering to add Solaris 2020. I'm curious : when do you use SE846, and when has Solaris preference? Thanks for your opinion.


----------



## psikey (Dec 19, 2021)

TomAndries said:


> I have SE846, and considering to add Solaris 2020. I'm curious : when do you use SE846, and when has Solaris preference? Thanks for your opinion.


I got some K10U, still have my SE846 and just stick with what I have now. I use my SE846 on short balance cable with a a BTR5. Use my K10U's wired


----------



## XmarX

So, is this the 'best' for low latency gaming and movie watching?
My sources are my PC (intel Bluetooth 5), android phone and iPad.

I have a Jade Audio IEM but I'm planning to get either 7hz timeless or the etymotic E2XR for listening.
Would love good battery life like 10 hrs (is it too much?).

Thank you and have a great holiday and new year!


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Dec 25, 2021)

Don't know if it's "the best", but it's great for watching movies.
Games are a different tier, imo, which ofc depends on the games you want to play with. 
Bluetooth isn't that great for something like FPS, i think.

My BTR5 lasts for approx. 8.5 hours straight with my FiiO iems playing music the whole duration.


----------



## XmarX

Chris Kaoss said:


> Don't know if it's "the best", but it's great for watching movies.
> Games are a different tier, imo, which ofc depends on the games you want to play with.
> Bluetooth isn't that great for something like FPS, i think.
> 
> My BTR5 lasts for approx. 8.5 hours straight with my FiiO iems playing music the whole duration.


Cool! 
Thanks for the reply!

There is aptX LL support - thats why I mentioned games.
8.5 hrs is really good btw.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

XmarX said:


> Cool!
> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> There is aptX LL support - thats why I mentioned games.
> 8.5 hrs is really good btw.


Yes, i know.
I've made a test with my R28 and the BTR5 to check for the delay.

TV via optical into the R28/ bluetooth transmitter->BTR5 aptx LL.

While watching movies the delay isn't an issue when listening to the BTR5 alone.
But listening to them both simultaneously, it became obvious.

That's the reason i've mentioned the gaming thing. 
Maybe with gaming, it's just the same for you like the movie thing is for me.

For me, especially on FPS, the slightly delay could make the difference of rise or fall.


----------



## lowrider007

I got a BTR5 for Christmas, and back it goes for a refund, BT range is too poor on anything above SBC imo, you have your phone in your left pocket and the BTR5 in the right packet and it cuts out from time to time, you hold it your hand in your coat pocket, cuts out, this device really needs to be clipped onto the same pocket your phone is in, and at that point I might as well just plug my IEM's into my phone!

What I don't get is with all my BT headphones, AKG Y50's, 3 models of Bowers and Wilkens, 2 sets of True wireless buds, I can walk around my whole apartment no issues with my phone left on the table, BTR5 you can barely move 10 feet in line of sight and it's cuts out.


----------



## r31ya

lowrider007 said:


> I got a BTR5 for Christmas, and back it goes for a refund, BT range is too poor on anything above SBC imo, you have your phone in your left pocket and the BTR5 in the right packet and it cuts out from time to time, you hold it your hand in your coat pocket, cuts out, this device really needs to be clipped onto the same pocket your phone is in, and at that point I might as well just plug my IEM's into my phone!
> 
> What I don't get is with all my BT headphones, AKG Y50's, 3 models of Bowers and Wilkens, 2 sets of True wireless buds, I can walk around my whole apartment no issues with my phone left on the table, BTR5 you can barely move 10 feet in line of sight and it's cuts out.


From what i read, the cheaper BTR3K have better range.
And yes, my BTR5 loves to stutters, as i jog with BTR5 on my right pants pocket and my phone on my left jacket pockets.


----------



## FiiO

FiiO products being the winner of Headfonia 2021 awards--BTR5 2021 is the winner of the 2021 Best Portable Wireless Adapter award, and BTA30 Pro the Best Desktop Wireless Adapter. Both of them are sincere upgrades respectively based on our previous BTR5 and BTA30. Again, thank you so much for your support. We will keep working hard. 

https://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-2021-awards-part-2/2/


----------



## XmarX

lowrider007 said:


> I got a BTR5 for Christmas, and back it goes for a refund, BT range is too poor on anything above SBC imo, you have your phone in your left pocket and the BTR5 in the right packet and it cuts out from time to time, you hold it your hand in your coat pocket, cuts out, this device really needs to be clipped onto the same pocket your phone is in, and at that point I might as well just plug my IEM's into my phone!
> 
> What I don't get is with all my BT headphones, AKG Y50's, 3 models of Bowers and Wilkens, 2 sets of True wireless buds, I can walk around my whole apartment no issues with my phone left on the table, BTR5 you can barely move 10 feet in line of sight and it's cuts out.


Could it be that you received a lemon?
QC issues are common on some models!
Would you consider a replacement first?

I'm asking because I'm in the market for one and was looking at this model!


----------



## Dtagonkiva

Hello all, i need information about  BTR52021, 
I mainly using my Laptop as a source for  streaming music on Apple Music.


Want to know how it will works?? And what codec will it used when pairing with my laptop?

Thanks


----------



## rlw6534

Dtagonkiva said:


> Hello all, i need information about  BTR52021,
> I mainly using my Laptop as a source for  streaming music on Apple Music.
> 
> 
> ...



Well for a MacBook over BT it will be AAC 256.   You didn't give many details on what you actually have.


----------



## Dtagonkiva

rlw6534 said:


> Well for a MacBook over BT it will be AAC 256.   You didn't give many details on what you actually have.


Im sorry my Laptop is running Windows 11
Is AAC also better codec like LDAC??


----------



## rlw6534

Dtagonkiva said:


> Im sorry my Laptop is running Windows 11
> Is AAC also better codec like LDAC??



I'm not a Windows user, but I believe that Windows 11 does support the AAC codec (based on a Google search).  LDAC is a better BT codec but I don't believe it is supported in Windows, at least natively.  It may depend on your specific hardware as Windows laptops vary considerably (unlike MacBooks).   

Perhaps some Windows users can add more information.


----------



## FiiO

Dtagonkiva said:


> Im sorry my Laptop is running Windows 11
> Is AAC also better codec like LDAC??


Dear friend,

You may check what Bluetooth code your computer supports first. And the BTR5 support USB DAC function as well. You could connect it to your computer via USB for getting native sampling rate output.

Best regards


----------



## patkwok

Hi all,

I am now using Samsung S9 plus mobile and Tidal app.  I just bought the BTR5 2021 and tried to connect with the S9 plus and play MQA streaming through Tidal app. However, the Fiio cannot display MQA on its OLED display when playing MQA songs.

Any one can give me some advice on how to fully decode the MQA songs in my case?

Thank you.

Patrick


----------



## chris the man

lowrider007 said:


> I got a BTR5 for Christmas, and back it goes for a refund, BT range is too poor on anything above SBC imo, you have your phone in your left pocket and the BTR5 in the right packet and it cuts out from time to time, you hold it your hand in your coat pocket, cuts out, this device really needs to be clipped onto the same pocket your phone is in, and at that point I might as well just plug my IEM's into my phone!
> 
> What I don't get is with all my BT headphones, AKG Y50's, 3 models of Bowers and Wilkens, 2 sets of True wireless buds, I can walk around my whole apartment no issues with my phone left on the table, BTR5 you can barely move 10 feet in line of sight and it's cuts out.


I was on the fence. But absolutely need the range when I can get it. Thanks for this info.


----------



## FiiO

patkwok said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am now using Samsung S9 plus mobile and Tidal app.  I just bought the BTR5 2021 and tried to connect with the S9 plus and play MQA streaming through Tidal app. However, the Fiio cannot display MQA on its OLED display when playing MQA songs.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

After checking the Tidal app, we found that there is certain requirement in the Android version Tidal app for MQA support. The iOS version, Windows, MAC version Tidal app could work fine with BTR5 2021 when playing MQA file. 
Anyway, we will try to meet the requirement for Tidal app via XMOS firmware update soon.

You could try to use UAPP for playing the MQA file in Tidal instead currently: 
I managed to solve the problem by using 3rd party App, "USB Audio Player PRO" to enable the Tidal's MQA feature and make possible for btr5 subsequent rendering of MQA (2nd unfold). The App is not free though. Pls see my attached photo as explained. Pls share this info to other customers in case they facing the similar problem

Best regards


----------



## patkwok

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> After checking the Tidal app, we found that there is certain requirement in the Android version Tidal app for MQA support. The iOS version, Windows, MAC version Tidal app could work fine with BTR5 2021 when playing MQA file.
> Anyway, we will try to meet the requirement for Tidal app via XMOS firmware update soon.
> ...


Dear Fiio,

Please have the firmware update soon as I always use my Android mobile phone paired with the BTR5 to listen to Tidal.

For UAPP, I am also using it and enabled the MQA feature through the in-app purchase.  However, there is no luck to have MQA fully unfold.  I just can see the 1st unfold by UAPP (the BTR either show 88.2kHz or 96kHz only) and there is no 2nd unfold by BTR5.

Thank you.

Patrick


----------



## FiiO

patkwok said:


> Dear Fiio,
> 
> Please have the firmware update soon as I always use my Android mobile phone paired with the BTR5 to listen to Tidal.
> 
> ...


You may check whether the setting in UAPP is not correct? The other users try the UAPP and it works(Remember to insert the headphone to the BTR5 first):





Best regards


----------



## patkwok (Jan 10, 2022)

FiiO said:


> You may check whether the setting in UAPP is not correct? The other users try the UAPP and it works(Remember to insert the headphone to the BTR5 first):
> 
> 
> Best regards


What a trick to insert the headphone to the BTR5 first!  I can get it now.

Please please please provide an update firmware asap.  UAPP is good but it will use up mobile network data and it does not support download to mobile for offline listening while Tidal app itself supports this.

Thank you.


----------



## Nas Volokin

patkwok said:


> What a trick to insert the headphone to the BTR5 first!  I can get it now.
> 
> Please please please provide an update firmware asap.  UAPP is good but it will use up mobile network data and it does not support download to mobile for offline listening while Tidal app itself support this.
> 
> Thank you.


Yeah that could be great. I am using UAPP with  MQA in app purchase but as you mentioned there's no option to save tracks for offline. Also I can't find my liked songs using Tidal in UAPP and the whole interface is just wrong lol. I hope they can fix it with a firmware update. Thank you Fiio


----------



## patkwok

Nas Volokin said:


> Yeah that could be great. I am using UAPP with  MQA in app purchase but as you mentioned there's no option to save tracks for offline. Also I can't find my liked songs using Tidal in UAPP and the whole interface is just wrong lol. I hope they can fix it with a firmware update. Thank you Fiio


Yes, now it limited the usage if I want to listen to MQA songs and need to find a place with wifi connect.


----------



## mad001

I'm having this problem where my BTR5 2021 audio cuts off randomly when being used as USB DAC on a Windows PC while connected to my phone over bluetooth.

Is this the intended behavior ? Am I supposed to manually disconnect bluetooth before connecting it to a PC ? Or is it automatic ?

The connection preference is set to USB. I've even tried a factory reset and that didn't help


----------



## Chris Kaoss

Did you installed the FiiO drivers?
This has solved the issues I had.


----------



## FiiO

mad001 said:


> I'm having this problem where my BTR5 2021 audio cuts off randomly when being used as USB DAC on a Windows PC while connected to my phone over bluetooth.
> 
> Is this the intended behavior ? Am I supposed to manually disconnect bluetooth before connecting it to a PC ? Or is it automatic ?
> 
> The connection preference is set to USB. I've even tried a factory reset and that didn't help


Dear friend,

And you could try to check via another usb cables or ports? Does the issue happen when the message comes from the mobile phone? 

Best regards


----------



## LoryWiv

mad001 said:


> I'm having this problem where my BTR5 2021 audio cuts off randomly when being *used as USB DAC on a Windows PC while connected to my phone over bluetooth.*
> 
> Is this the intended behavior ? Am I supposed to manually disconnect bluetooth before connecting it to a PC ? Or is it automatic ?
> 
> The connection preference is set to USB. I've even tried a factory reset and that didn't help


I routinely use BTR5 in just this way and don't experience cutouts.


----------



## mad001 (Jan 12, 2022)

@FiiO 
I tried different cables and PCs. Yes, the stuttering happens whenever any sound plays on my phone. I don't think its an intended behavior though


----------



## LoryWiv

mad001 said:


> @FiiO
> I tried different cables and PCs. Yes, the stuttering happens whenever any sound plays on my phone. I don't think its an intended behavior though


Well, when I receive a text I DO note a brief pause in music...not really a stouter, just the BT connection briefly activating I suspect. I don't really mind as that way I know I have a new text!


----------



## patkwok

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> After checking the Tidal app, we found that there is certain requirement in the Android version Tidal app for MQA support. The iOS version, Windows, MAC version Tidal app could work fine with BTR5 2021 when playing MQA file.
> Anyway, we will try to meet the requirement for Tidal app via XMOS firmware update soon.
> ...


The FAQ for BTR5 2021 stated the following:
https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/552768.html
No. The firmware of the BTR5 2021 is based on that of the old BTR5, which has been well recognized by our users to be very stable. So it is unnecessary to upgrade it anymore.


Is it really possible to have a firmware update for the BTR5 2021 for the MQA decoding problem with Android version Tidal app??


----------



## Sabotender

Hello,
I have a problem with Fiio BTR5 2021.
After playing the MQA format in Tidal and switching to other applications, the sound becomes distorted (recording is slower).
The problem occurs only after playing music in MQA format.
I tried both under Windows 10 and under Windows 11, the driver was installed on both systems. Maybe someone knows how to solve this problem.
(my language is not English, there may be mistakes, please excuse me)


----------



## hmscott (Jan 19, 2022)

Sabotender said:


> Hello,
> I have a problem with Fiio BTR5 2021.
> After playing the MQA format in Tidal and switching to other applications, the sound becomes distorted (recording is slower).
> The problem occurs only after playing music in MQA format.
> ...


The Tidal app, and other music play apps, often "lock on" to a device through "Exclusive access", which can - depending on the level of locking - disturb or completely interrupt use of audio from other apps.

For example, I need to completely quit my Cyberlink PowerDVD player or I cannot hear audio in Youtube browser usage.  While Amazon Music player and Youtube are fine, but if I add Tidal at the same time it can lock out Amazon but allow Youtube.

So, what I am saying is, try refereshing the other music app - refreshing the youtube page after moving from Tidal to youtube can allow Youtube to play audio, or quit the Tidal, Amazon, Apple, Cyberlink music app you were using before moving on to another Music app.

You could also go into streaming options in Tidal and uncheck "Use Exclusive Mode" but then MQA would stop working.  But, that might be ok for you when moving to another audio playing app - while you use that one - and then switch Tidals Streaming option "Exclusive Mode" back on when leaving the other audio apps for Tidal...

Mix and match, you'll find app combo's that work best for your installed apps on your PC.


----------



## Sabotender

hmscott said:


> The Tidal app, and other music play apps, often "lock on" to a device through "Exclusive access", which can - depending on the level of locking - disturb or completely interrupt use of audio from other apps.


This effect occurs after closing the Tidal application. The sound is distorted both when playing Youtube clips and in games.
On Fiio BTR5 2021, MQA is displayed.


----------



## FiiO

patkwok said:


> The FAQ for BTR5 2021 stated the following:
> https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/552768.html
> No. The firmware of the BTR5 2021 is based on that of the old BTR5, which has been well recognized by our users to be very stable. So it is unnecessary to upgrade it anymore.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

The Bluetooth system firmware could not be updated. But the XMOS firmware could be updated. Our engineers are still working for this firmware.

Best regards


----------



## patkwok

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The Bluetooth system firmware could not be updated. But the XMOS firmware could be updated. Our engineers are still working for this firmware.
> 
> Best regards


Fiio,  Thank you!


----------



## hmscott

Sabotender said:


> This effect occurs after closing the Tidal application. The sound is distorted both when playing Youtube clips and in games.
> On Fiio BTR5 2021, MQA is displayed.


@FiiO - can you please duplicate this behavior and fix it?


----------



## Omifi (Jan 20, 2022)

@FiiO

This needs to be addressed : https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/s8l7d4/psa_warning_fiio_btr5_2021_mqa/

I received my device 3 days ago and it is bricked, and no chance to recover it (was possible with the 2020 version).

i have now to send it back where i bought it (HiFiGo) and wait a minimum of 4 weeks... (2 weeks to send it and 2 to get it back from EU/China). This hurts, not sure i want it back since it could happen again. I may choose a refund instead and go for something else.


----------



## jsmiller58

Omifi said:


> @FiiO
> 
> This needs to be addressed : https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/s8l7d4/psa_warning_fiio_btr5_2021_mqa/
> 
> ...


Anything can break.  And when it happens to us it is natural to draw the conclusion it is a common problem and can happen again to us.  In reality, most of the time that person was just incredibly unlucky - if something is going to break, even if only one in all of existence is going to break, that one person is going to be impacted and maybe draw a larger conclusion.

Research this.  If it truly is a widespread problem - MANY failures - then hard pass on the replacement.  Otherwise, if you really liked the product, take the replacement.  My opinion, only.


----------



## FiiO

hmscott said:


> @FiiO - can you please duplicate this behavior and fix it?


Are you using the Tidal app Android version?

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Omifi said:


> @FiiO
> 
> This needs to be addressed : https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/s8l7d4/psa_warning_fiio_btr5_2021_mqa/
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

So sorry about that. We must admit we got a few this feedback for BTR5 2021 as well. But comparing with the numbers of BTR5 2021 being sold, the issue of this problem is small percentage. The seller you mentioned is not our authorized seller. If you would like to get more convenient after-sale service, please get our product from the local sellers next time: https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy We apologize for any inconvenience in the meantime!

Best regards


----------



## Sabotender

FiiO said:


> Are you using the Tidal app Android version?
> 
> Best regards


Hello!
All applications for Windows 10, 11.
This happens if you close the Tidal application during or after playing tracks in MQA format.
Then Fiio BTR5 2021 remains in MQA mode.


----------



## Omifi (Jan 21, 2022)

jsmiller58 said:


> Anything can break.  And when it happens to us it is natural to draw the conclusion it is a common problem and can happen again to us.  In reality, most of the time that person was just incredibly unlucky - if something is going to break, even if only one in all of existence is going to break, that one person is going to be impacted and maybe draw a larger conclusion.
> 
> Research this.  If it truly is a widespread problem - MANY failures - then hard pass on the replacement.  Otherwise, if you really liked the product, take the replacement.  My opinion, only.



Hi,

I'm a 45 years old system engineer, i know a thing or two when it comes to bugs. This is not a randomly broken device or a DOA case, this is a serious flaw and it'll happen to every owner who will use the EQ often.


FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> So sorry about that. We must admit we got a few this feedback for BTR5 2021 as well. But comparing with the numbers of BTR5 2021 being sold, the issue of this problem is small percentage. The seller you mentioned is not our authorized seller. If you would like to get more convenient after-sale service, please get our product from the local sellers next time: https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy We apologize for any inconvenience in the meantime!
> 
> Best regards



Hi,

Of course, you have to admit it. It's a hard flaw on the device, not one, nor two, every single device of that revision have the issue, the moment the user will trigger it will vary depending on the way they use it, i'll give you that, but it'll happen.

Are you seriously dismissing a case because it was not bought from one of your “Authorized Seller”, are you kidding me ?, it was bought brand new from one of the few online shop that's sells it. I'm speechless.

I think you just helped me to ask for a refund and never come back to one of your product, but you probably don't care at this point.

So i wish you a good luck with the time bomb you have on your hands i guess.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Omifi said:


> Are you seriously dismissing a case because it was not bought from one of your “Authorized Seller”, are you kidding me ?, it was bought brand new from one of the few online shop that's sells it. I'm speechless.


Hello 
It may not be in any help to your current issue, but...recently I did order a dac/amp from HiFiGo and it was a complete brick! Had to return it and ask for a refund 'cause I didn't want to receive another defective product from them! 
When I ordered from an "authorized seller" I didn't have any problems for both BTR5/FD5 and now KA3. So my point is probably this doesn't matter much but what are the odds?! 3 products from authorized seller which working perfectly fine and 1 that was delivered defective


----------



## Omifi (Jan 21, 2022)

Nas Volokin said:


> Hello
> It may not be in any help to your current issue, but...recently I did order a dac/amp from HiFiGo and it was a complete brick! Had to return it and ask for a refund 'cause I didn't want to receive another defective product from them!
> When I ordered from an "authorized seller" I didn't have any problems for both BTR5/FD5 and now KA3. So my point is probably this doesn't matter much but what are the odds?! 3 products from authorized seller which working perfectly fine and 1 that was delivered defective


Hi,

HifiGo is not the culprit here, the device was in perfect working order when i received it, sealed box and genuine product . It stopped working after using the EQ same known problem than the OG BTR5 have but here you can't restore the firmware. It's a device issue. I'll also send it back for a refund, but i'll stay clear from FiiO for a while, sad because on paper it's an excellent device and worked quite well minus the battery life nowhere near to what was announced.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Omifi said:


> Hi,
> 
> HifiGo is not the culprit here, the device was in perfect working order when i received it, sealed box and genuine product . It stopped working after using the EQ same known problem than the OG BTR5 have but here you can't restore the firmware. It's a device issue. I'll also send it back for a refund, but i'll stay clear from FiiO for a while, sad because on paper it's an excellent device and worked quite well minus the battery life nowhere near to what was announced.


Okay sorry to hear about your problem, I never really had that issue cause I use another program for eq (Poweramp eq for Android and boom3d for windows btw, they surve me pretty well). Usually this integrated EQ's are trash, so I never really used it myself. But I have read about this current issue in some forums and it's really annoying, hope they can take a note and fix it soon


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jan 21, 2022)

Omifi said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a 45 years old system engineer, i know a thing or two when it comes to bugs. This is not a randomly broken device or a DOA case, this is a serious flaw and it'll happen to every owner who will use the EQ often.


Well, I am a 60 year old silicon and systems engineer 😃 and can assure you I too have seen many product bugs in my life and can relate that some are random/unique with a very low AFR/dppm, others create higher AFR, and still others are systemic and result in atrociously high failure rates.  The only way to know for sure is if you have the failure statistics available to you to draw a generalized conclusion, or you have conducted the root cause debug of the specific failure and can thus conclude a design failure that will occur under normal usage conditions.

I am not saying you are wrong.  In fact you might have one or the other of the above two, and I simply misunderstood what you wrote.  I rarely follow this thread, and who knows, maybe there are many similar sightings.  What I am pointing out is that humans have a tendency to extrapolate from their singular experience.  That may still give the right answer, but arriving at the right answer in the wrong way is usually not reliable.  But if you have reports of widespread issues, or have concluded the root cause debug, then I yield to your insights!

Peace out.


----------



## Omifi (Jan 21, 2022)

jsmiller58 said:


> Well, I am a 60 year old silicon and systems engineer 😃 and can assure you I too have seen many product bugs in my life and can relate that some are random/unique with a very low AFR/dppm, others create higher AFR, and still others are systemic and result in atrociously high failure rates.  The only way to know for sure is if you have the failure statistics available to you to draw a generalized conclusion, or you have conducted the root cause debug of the specific failure and can thus conclude a design failure that will occur under normal usage conditions.
> 
> I am not saying you are wrong.  In fact you might have one or the other of the above two, and I simply misunderstood what you wrote.  I rarely follow this thread, and who knows, maybe there are many similar sightings.  What I am pointing out is that humans have a tendency to extrapolate from their singular experience.  That may still give the right answer, but arriving at the right answer in the wrong way is usually not reliable.  But if you have reports of widespread issues, or have concluded the root cause debug, then I yield to your insights!
> 
> Peace out.


jsmiller58​I didn't drop my age and function just for the fun of it as you can imagine, being in the same field you know now that i assessed the issue with a rational methodology to remove any bias, i of course did not opened the device  nor did i poked or reverse engineered the device (i have to return it). The device have no pulse in DFU mode, that i checked, good luck to flash a new firmware without specific tools. With the Old BTR5 you could recover from the EQ issue with a flash. Again It's a well documented bug by FiiO, the only difference is now with the 2021 revision you'll not be able to recover.

You want to test it yourself ? (do not do it with the 2021 ! or you'll have a nice paper weight). Connect your BTR5, first version only,  as a DAC on your PC, play some media, and use "FiiO control 2.6" on your phone and play with your EQ for some time (the time seems to be different in each cases - i have about 30 cases collected in a few days for the 2021 revision). Be ready to re-flash your device.


----------



## Omifi

Double post*


----------



## Gioacchino

Hi everyone, I need some big advice. I am quite happy with the smartophone (honor 10 has a good dac) and Sony XBA-N3 combination. My question is this, does it make sense to buy btr5 if I use spotify and iem ?. I am looking for a substantial improvement.Thank you very much


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jan 21, 2022)

Omifi said:


> jsmiller58​I didn't drop my age and function just for the fun of it as you can imagine, being in the same field you know now that i assessed the issue with a rational methodology to remove any bias, i of course did not opened the device  nor did i poked or reverse engineered the device (i have to return it). The device have no pulse in DFU mode, that i checked, good luck to flash a new firmware without specific tools. With the Old BTR5 you could recover from the EQ issue with a flash. Again It's a well documented bug by FiiO, the only difference is now with the 2021 revision you'll not be able to recover.
> 
> You want to test it yourself ? (do not do it with the 2021 ! or you'll have a nice paper weight). Connect your BTR5, first version only,  as a DAC on your PC, play some media, and use "FiiO control 2.6" on your phone and play with your EQ for some time (the time seems to be different in each cases - i have about 30 cases collected in a few days for the 2021 revision). Be ready to re-flash your device.


I read your Reddit post, though I may still be missing something.

(Edit: wrote up a longer post, but it is not really going to add to the discussion, so I will retain only the last paragraph)…

You have serious doubts about this device, so maybe it is time to move on.  In the end, you might want to look at the Qudelix 5K.  Other than lacking MQA support (let’s not open up that can of worms) I think that the 5K is a superior device to the BTR5 variants (incredible app, superior BT range) - I say this based on owning the 5K and original BTR5.  If you are primarily looking for a dongle device and BT is not essential, I would suggest the L&P W2.  The latter does not have an app, and thus does not have the built in equalizer (it does have some provided presets, but, once you’ve used EQ then presets are too primitive), but if you are using Android you can always use the free Wavelet app.  I have other dongles I can also help you consider if you wish to discuss them.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Gioacchino said:


> Hi everyone, I need some big advice. I am quite happy with the smartophone (honor 10 has a good dac) and Sony XBA-N3 combination. My question is this, does it make sense to buy btr5 if I use spotify and iem ?. I am looking for a substantial improvement.Thank you very much


Well, substantial hardly, but if you're looking for something on the go because of the BT function then yes it does make a difference. Also is good for iems, they are the ones that makes a difference, not that much the btr5. You can take a look at KA3 if you don't need the BT function. It's portable dongle and it's better sounding than this. The only downside is that it doesn't have a battery so it will use your devices battery, it doesn't support MQA either but I find it overall better


----------



## hmscott (Jan 22, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Are you using the Tidal app Android version?
> 
> Best regards


Yes, but the old FiiO BTR5, I don't have the new 2021 yet.  Thank you! - Scott


----------



## Omifi (Jan 22, 2022)

jsmiller58 said:


> I read your Reddit post, though I may still be missing something.
> 
> (Edit: wrote up a longer post, but it is not really going to add to the discussion, so I will retain only the last paragraph)…
> 
> You have serious doubts about this device,...



I don't have serious doubt about the device, there is a critical flaw period. The PSA was made to warn owners not to use a specific function, that's about it. Passed that i'm not advocating anything else.

After the answer i got from the FiiO rep here, i will for sure go for something else, but that's just me. Indeed the Qudelix was on my radar, i got the FiiO because first it wasn't in store @ HifiGo and second for the specs. Anyway, the device is packed and back to China.

Have a nice day.


----------



## jsmiller58

.


Omifi said:


> I don't have serious doubt about the device, there is a critical flaw period. The PSA was made to warn owners not to use a specific function, that's about it. Passed that i'm not advocating anything else.
> 
> After the answer i got from the FiiO rep here, i will for sure go for something else, but that's just me. Indeed the Qudelix was on my radar, i got the FiiO because first it wasn't in store @ HifiGo and second for the specs. Anyway, the device is packed and back to China.
> 
> Have a nice day.


Best of luck to you!


----------



## BobSmith8901

Omifi said:


> I don't have serious doubt about the device, there is a critical flaw period. The PSA was made to warn owners not to use a specific function, that's about it. Passed that i'm not advocating anything else.
> 
> After the answer i got from the FiiO rep here, i will for sure go for something else, but that's just me. Indeed the Qudelix was on my radar, i got the FiiO because first it wasn't in store @ HifiGo and second for the specs. Anyway, the device is packed and back to China.
> 
> Have a nice day.


Thanks indeed for the heads-up and sorry you had to find out about it the hard way. I've got the original BTR5 which has performed well in BT and DAC mode and I only briefly tried the FiiO Control App's EQ, but I'll certainly avoid it entirely now in either mode.


----------



## C4PPY

Will there be a "BTR6" as kind of replacement for the Q5 but more in line with the BTR story?


----------



## mad001

jsmiller58 said:


> Anything can break.  And when it happens to us it is natural to draw the conclusion it is a common problem and can happen again to us.  In reality, most of the time that person was just incredibly unlucky - if something is going to break, even if only one in all of existence is going to break, that one person is going to be impacted and maybe draw a larger conclusion.
> 
> Research this.  If it truly is a widespread problem - MANY failures - then hard pass on the replacement.  Otherwise, if you really liked the product, take the replacement.  My opinion, only.


Crappy LPT : Use this trick to get a new BTR5 near the end of your warranty to new unit with a fresh battery. If you live in a region with official support.

To be honest though, I'm too scared to use the EQ function on this DAC. There's an example even on this thread.


----------



## LoryWiv

BobSmith8901 said:


> Thanks indeed for the heads-up and sorry you had to find out about it the hard way. I've got the original BTR5 which has performed well in BT and DAC mode and I only briefly tried the FiiO Control App's EQ, but I'll certainly avoid it entirely now in either mode.


Same here. Thankfully I don't EQ but do use and enjoy the FiiO app to add some 2nd order harmonics. Certainly could be placebo / expectation bias but IMO it adds a bit of vacuum tune coloration (in a good way) to the output.


----------



## jsmiller58

Well, all this talk about this issue makes me very curious.  I have the original BTR5 and may as well try to reproduce this sighting.  Since I rely primarily on the 5K I don’t really use the BTR5 anymore, so if it breaks it is not a significant loss to me.  Will happily report if I reproduce the issue.


----------



## hmscott

jsmiller58 said:


> Well, all this talk about this issue makes me very curious.  I have the original BTR5 and may as well try to reproduce this sighting.  Since I rely primarily on the 5K I don’t really use the BTR5 anymore, so if it breaks it is not a significant loss to me.  Will happily report if I reproduce the issue.


I was going to pass on the 2021 BTR5 as I have 3 of the previous version, along with a BTR3K, but now I am curious if there is a bug, someone should help FiiO replicate it and get it fixed, rather than be afraid that it's "gonna brick!", ya know, these things are bugs that need to get fixed, not create a scare about a product.

FiiO has been very attentive in these forums getting user feedback and helping owners to get their product problems fixed - I don't see the value in throwing a tantrum and storming out over a bug.


----------



## jsmiller58

hmscott said:


> I was going to pass on the 2021 BTR5 as I have 3 of the previous version, along with a BTR3K, but now I am curious if there is a bug, someone should help FiiO replicate it and get it fixed, rather than be afraid that it's "gonna brick!", ya know, these things are bugs that need to get fixed, not create a scare about a product.
> 
> FiiO has been very attentive in these forums getting user feedback and helping owners to get their product problems fixed - I don't see the value in throwing a tantrum and storming out over a bug.


Yup…!  I will see if I can replicate it, but as I only have the original version it might not be conclusive.  Also it may be this is a very infrequent issue or requiring specific sequence of events.  But I will try what I can.


----------



## Rizzoli

ActuallySparky said:


> Oh interesting - I assumed it was plug and play. Is https://fiio.com/Driver_Download the only source for these drivers? The DAC driver only appears to be available on Windows - sad news if true for us primary Mac users...


Hello, did you find anyway to play higher bit-rate, or did you get stuck at 44.1K. I'm also a Mac User and recently acquired the BTR5 and whilst connected via USB A >USB C I only get 44.1K and as you said, in the FiiO website there's only Windows drivers. You posted almost 2 years ago. 

Did you find any solution? 

Thanks, 
Rizzoli


----------



## Rizzoli

Rizzoli said:


> Hello, did you find anyway to play higher bit-rate, or did you get stuck at 44.1K. I'm also a Mac User and recently acquired the BTR5 and whilst connected via USB A >USB C I only get 44.1K and as you said, in the FiiO website there's only Windows drivers. You posted almost 2 years ago.
> 
> Did you find any solution?
> 
> ...


@ActuallySparky  Solved it - Went to Audio Midi Setup and from there you can change bit rate.

Cheers,
Rizzoli


----------



## hmscott (Jan 24, 2022)

jsmiller58 said:


> Yup…!  I will see if I can replicate it, but as I only have the original version it might not be conclusive.  Also it may be this is a very infrequent issue or requiring specific sequence of events.  But I will try what I can.


Remember when many were freaking out over their BTR5 "bricking" when it first came out?  People were disabling "Charging" while connected to the phone/DAC and completely draining their BTR5 battery, and then following up by not giving the BTR5 enough time to "charge" while connected to power - it took about 10 minutes charging after the BTR5 battery was completely depleted before the BTR5 "woke up", and showed the battery icon.

Those "bricked" BTR5s stopped showing up in the forums pretty quickly after the sequence of events as root cause was explained.

Patience is toughest in the heat of moment when you think you've killed a device - bricked it - when 99% of the time there is an easy simple way - with patience - to solve the problem.

Sometimes there isn't - that 1%, and I live to find and fix those bugs, 50 years of it in fact, electronics, software, systems / network engineering, sometimes the problem is as simple as finding the right cable, or powering it on and off again, or waiting for the firmware to complete updating before punching the reboot button over and over again, if not then I get called in to get things working again.

"PEBKAC" complications explain many problems, and FiiO is one of the nicesest when it comes to solving those situations with their customers, if you give them the chance.

If you are able to recreate it with your BTR5 I'll see if I can recreate it too, thanks.


----------



## Omifi (Jan 24, 2022)

hmscott​I understand the skepticism, interestingly enough i took a video just a few seconds after it happened (after that the device was unresponsive, you have the rest of the story on the PSA) : i of course sent it to FiiO directly by mail just after with the entire story (no words since btw). If this look like a charging issue to you, i would just say that you're entitled to your opinion and in the end we have to agree to disagree.

And as specified the BTR5 2021 MQA, CAN NOT be flashed after it's bricked, where the BTR5 v1/2020 can.

https://gofile.io/d/NduJUh , sorry for the fan sound behind, a Neural network was in training.


----------



## hmscott

Omifi said:


> hmscott​I understand the skepticism, interestingly enough it took a video just a few seconds after it happened (after that the device was unresponsive, you have the rest of the story on the PSA) : i of course sent it to FiiO directly by mail just after with the entire story (no words since btw). If this look like a charging issue to you, i would just say that you're entitled to your opinion and in the end we have to agree to disagree.
> 
> And as specified the BTR5 2021 MQA, CAN NOT be flashed after it's bricked, where the BTR5 v1/2020 can.
> 
> https://gofile.io/d/NduJUh , sorry for the fan sound behind, a Neural network was in training.


Thank you @Omifi, no I wasn't suggesting this was a battery issue, just that at times there are simple solutions to recover from a problem that seem at the time to be unrecoverable.

I hope you and @FiiO can work together to find a solution that will benefit you and everyone else with BTR5 2021's.  I wish I could help but not having a BTR5 2021 this time around there isn't alot I can do except suggest there might be a solution not seen yet that when found will allow everyone to move on easily past this particular sticking point in time.

Thank you for hanging in there and helping to get the problem identified, characterized, and reported to @FiiO


----------



## srbungle

Hello.
At this point is no possible to use MQA through Tidal, am I correct?
Some reply suggest use UAPP, but the problem is I have with that is I have a Pixel 6 so no UAPP for me.

is any way to make this works?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## patkwok (Jan 25, 2022)

srbungle said:


> Hello.
> At this point is no possible to use MQA through Tidal, am I correct?
> Some reply suggest use UAPP, but the problem is I have with that is I have a Pixel 6 so no UAPP for me.
> 
> ...


Hi srbungle,

Very sorry to hear that you are using Google Pixel 6 that did not support external USB DAC.

Fiio said that there is an issue in the XMOS firmware for the BTR5 20201 that prevent the Tidal app to recognize it as a MQA compatible device.  This issue may be solved until Fiio releases an update XMOS firmware.

Fiio explanation about the MQA issue of the BTR5 2021

Therefore, Fiio suggested the current solution to have bit perfect in the Android world is to use UAPP with the relevant MQA in-app plug-in.


----------



## FiiO

Omifi said:


> hmscott​I understand the skepticism, interestingly enough i took a video just a few seconds after it happened (after that the device was unresponsive, you have the rest of the story on the PSA) : i of course sent it to FiiO directly by mail just after with the entire story (no words since btw). If this look like a charging issue to you, i would just say that you're entitled to your opinion and in the end we have to agree to disagree.
> 
> And as specified the BTR5 2021 MQA, CAN NOT be flashed after it's bricked, where the BTR5 v1/2020 can.
> 
> https://gofile.io/d/NduJUh , sorry for the fan sound behind, a Neural network was in training.


Dear friend,

Since the issue could not be solved by yourself, you could consider contacting your seller for help first.
But if he could not help, you could contact support@fiio.com about that and send it back to us in China for replacement.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO (Jan 25, 2022)

Sabotender said:


> Hello!
> All applications for Windows 10, 11.
> This happens if you close the Tidal application during or after playing tracks in MQA format.
> Then Fiio BTR5 2021 remains in MQA mode.


Dear friend,

Please try to switch the music files to see whther the BTR5 2021 shows MQA still when not playing MQA files? Does the issue happen everytimes? My colleague tried via the Tidal app and the foobar app in the Win11 computer but did not get the same problem. And he is choosing ASIO output mode in the foobar app.

Best regards


----------



## Sabotender (Jan 26, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Please try to switch the music files to see whther the BTR5 2021 shows MQA still when not playing MQA files? Does the issue happen everytimes? My colleague tried via the Tidal app and the foobar app in the Win11 computer but did not get the same problem. And he is choosing ASIO output mode in the foobar app.
> 
> Best regards


Hello.
Tidal (Use Exclusive mode +Force volume) > Play MQA > Tidal off (during track playback) > BTR5 remains in the mode MQA (the sound is distorted in other applications after that).
Tidal (Use Exclusive mode +Force volume) > Play MQA > Switch track no  MQA > Tidal off > BTR5 in normal mode

ps^ I'll try to record a video when I have time
pss^ now I tried to repeat it at work, it didn't happen again... perhaps it's the Tidal application itself (it has been updated on the laptop), I'll check at home in the evening.


----------



## Omifi (Jan 26, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Since the issue could not be solved by yourself, you could consider contacting your seller for help first.
> But if he could not help, you could contact support@fiio.com about that and send it back to us in China for replacement.
> ...


Hi,

Way too late. It was packed and sent back for refund. You still have a major issue on your hand though that need to be fixed for your other customers. At least do an official statement to avoid using the "FiiO Control EQ" till you find an adequate solution. As for me, i'll avoid FiiO for quite some time.

Regards.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I just posted a video, but it is time for another one!! Today I review FiiO BTR5 2021 in viddy, a Bluetooth DAC/AMP/Receiver with an improved sound from the original and with support for the controversial MQA format~


----------



## Andrew_WOT

ClieOS said:


> The single-ended 3.5mm is however a little bland sounding - not bad per se and definitely better than BTR3, there is however nothing truly remarkable to speak of. For those who only intended to use the 3.5mm output for music listening, BTR5 might not be the best choice value wise.


Does anybody know if this issue was addressed in 2021 revision?


----------



## patkwok

Andrew_WOT said:


> Does anybody know if this issue was addressed in 2021 revision?



I am using BTR5 2021 with Westone W4R, Sony WH-1000XM4, Grado Alessandro M1, Acoustune RS One.  All are using 3.5mm unbalanced.   Actually,  I think the BTR5 2021 can truely reflect the sound without adding special characteristic to the music.


----------



## superpowter77

Just new to the forum. After a short and expensive crusade with TWS earbuds, decided to move up to next level, then I bought all at once BTA30 Pro, BTR5 2021 and FH3, had to buy BTR5 2021 twice since they sent by mistake lightning version instead of standard. BTR5 2021 works great with FH3, however it was unable to drive my 10 years old ATH-M40fs and HD280 Pro. BTR5 2021 currently has an issue working as USB DAC on my MACs where a crackling sound is present when I move the cursor or use safari or any other software on mac. Tried all ports without success. Will look into it by using a powered USB hub to see if this still happens, Also will test further on my Linux and windows 10 machines.
Working with my Samsung galaxy S21 G5 and G52 G5 has been flawless after a factory reset due some constant hiss present with regular samsung earbuds.
I will still try UP5 and Qudelix 5K soon. Also a Penon Fan audio IEM's, which were not available from amazon.
In general I'm satisfied with my FIIO products, FIIO support thru FIIO forums could be better, I made few posts there and nobody has answered yet.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

superpowter77 said:


> Just new to the forum. After a short and expensive crusade with TWS earbuds, decided to move up to next level, then I bought all at once BTA30 Pro, BTR5 2021 and FH3, had to buy BTR5 2021 twice since they sent by mistake lightning version instead of standard. BTR5 2021 works great with FH3, however it was unable to drive my 10 years old ATH-M40fs and HD280 Pro. BTR5 2021 currently has an issue working as USB DAC on my MACs where a crackling sound is present when I move the cursor or use safari or any other software on mac. Tried all ports without success. Will look into it by using a powered USB hub to see if this still happens, Also will test further on my Linux and windows 10 machines.
> Working with my Samsung galaxy S21 G5 and G52 G5 has been flawless after a factory reset due some constant hiss present with regular samsung earbuds.
> I will still try UP5 and Qudelix 5K soon. Also a Penon Fan audio IEM's, which were not available from amazon.
> In general I'm satisfied with my FIIO products, FIIO support thru FIIO forums could be better, I made few posts there and nobody has answered yet.


That sounds like ground loop which is weird as you don't have BTR5 or phones connected to power grid. Does it go away if you run MAC off battery.
If it does, something like Ebtech Hum-X can solve the issue.


----------



## superpowter77

Andrew_WOT said:


> That sounds like ground loop which is weird as you don't have BTR5 or phones connected to power grid. Does it go away if you run MAC off battery.
> If it does, something like Ebtech Hum-X can solve the issue.


BTR5 2001 was actually running off battery on my MBP(MAC), didn't try with a MAC PSU yet. BTA30 Pro on the other hand worked flawlessly as USB DAC on same MAC running off battery.


----------



## superpowter77

FiiO said:


> You may check whether the setting in UAPP is not correct? The other users try the UAPP and it works(Remember to insert the headphone to the BTR5 first):
> 
> 
> Best regards


How did you get to pass 48khz mode in BTR5 2021 when using USB DAC mode as shown on pic?. I'm using Tidal Master and HIFI modes on latest android OS on my Samsung galaxy G52 G5 phone and still can't get pass 48khz in USB DAC mode as shown on BTR5 2021 screen, it's locked to that bitrate, already tried entering menus to see if there was an option to switch to 96khz or MQA mode. I already purchased USB Audio player pro app(UAPP) and set it to use Hires Direct driver instead of original android driver. Trying to use MQA mode in Tidal with a HIFI plus subscription. What I'm missing here?


----------



## Chris Kaoss (Feb 1, 2022)

It's UAPP. 

Tested with my 2020 BTR5, the display shows 88.2kHz when playing "Celine Dion - Ashes" (MQA-track) over UAPP. (Out of my Xperia 1 iii with Android 12).


----------



## superpowter77

Chris Kaoss said:


> It's UAPP.
> 
> Tested with my 2020 BTR5, the display shows 88.2kHz when playing "Celine Dion - Ashes" (MQA-track) over UAPP. (Out of my Xperia 1 iii with Android 12).


Thanks for the heads up, so it's basically useless having Tidal HIFI plus service with a BTR5 2021 until
FIIO releases a XMOS firmware update.
Have to go to HDtracks and spend some $$$ on buying some albums to test MQA and HiRes.
My IEM's first experience is getting a bit expensive.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

superpowter77 said:


> Thanks for the heads up, so it's basically useless having Tidal HIFI plus service with a BTR5 2021 until
> FIIO releases a XMOS firmware update.
> Have to go to HDtracks and spend some $$$ on buying some albums to test MQA and HiRes.
> My IEM's first experience is getting a bit expensive.


I don't own the 2021 BTR5, so i can't test it on my Surface with exclusive mode.


----------



## Eiffel

@FiiO - Why your apps updates are so slow on Google Play ?
It happens to have a Huawei P30 phones and in Huawei App Gallery there are newer versions of them, but nothing new in Google Play even if they are released few weeks ago in App Gallery.


----------



## zenaldo

patkwok said:


> Fiio,  Thank you!





FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The Bluetooth system firmware could not be updated. But the XMOS firmware could be updated. Our engineers are still working for this firmware.
> 
> Best regards


@FiiO, could you give us an update about this fix? It should be a severity one bug fix, as the product you sold is not working as it should.
 You officially recognized this issue almost one month ago!


----------



## patkwok

zenaldo said:


> @FiiO, could you give us an update about this fix? It should be a severity one bug fix, as the product you sold is not working as it should.
> You officially recognized this issue almost one month ago!


They are still in holiday as now is the Chinese New Year.


----------



## FiiO

zenaldo said:


> @FiiO, could you give us an update about this fix? It should be a severity one bug fix, as the product you sold is not working as it should.
> You officially recognized this issue almost one month ago!


Dear friend,

We have reported this problem to MQA and located the issue. If everything goes well, the new XMOS firmware for BTR5 2021 will be released this month. And you could still use the UAPP app in Android mobile phone for help or play MQA in PC/iOS version Tidal app.

Best regards


----------



## ricthaman

I can’t seem to get MQA working on the iOS version of Tidal (both on iPad and iPhone). The BTR5 just keeps displaying the sample rate but not MQA. also, the Tidal app will freeze when connecting the BTR5. I am using Fiio LT-LT1, which should work?
anyone else having these issues on iOS? I only read about it on the Android app.


----------



## rlw6534

ricthaman said:


> I can’t seem to get MQA working on the iOS version of Tidal (both on iPad and iPhone). The BTR5 just keeps displaying the sample rate but not MQA. also, the Tidal app will freeze when connecting the BTR5. I am using Fiio LT-LT1, which should work?
> anyone else having these issues on iOS? I only read about it on the Android app.



I believe you have to increase the volume to the max on iPhone and then control from the BTR5 for MQA to work.


----------



## patkwok

ricthaman said:


> I can’t seem to get MQA working on the iOS version of Tidal (both on iPad and iPhone). The BTR5 just keeps displaying the sample rate but not MQA. also, the Tidal app will freeze when connecting the BTR5. I am using Fiio LT-LT1, which should work?
> anyone else having these issues on iOS? I only read about it on the Android app.


I have tried to use the BT52021 with a USB type-c to type-c cable to connect to my iPad Pro 2021 (which is using USB-C connector) and there is no problem to decode MQA when using Tidal app.  It can show MQA in the display of the BTR.


----------



## ricthaman

Well, it just doesn't seem to work. I can't get the BTR5 2021 to decode MQA. I tried my iPhone, iPad and my Mac all running tidal. On mac I set the BTR5 as output device, exclusive mode and passtrough MQA but it just keeps displaying sample rates (48khz or 88.2kz).

Is there anybody who has another idea (tried the above suggestions)?


----------



## patkwok

ricthaman said:


> Well, it just doesn't seem to work. I can't get the BTR5 2021 to decode MQA. I tried my iPhone, iPad and my Mac all running tidal. On mac I set the BTR5 as output device, exclusive mode and passtrough MQA but it just keeps displaying sample rates (48khz or 88.2kz).
> 
> Is there anybody who has another idea (tried the above suggestions)?


Did you plug in a headphone or earphone?


----------



## ricthaman

patkwok said:


> Did you plug in a headphone or earphone?


omg. This fixed it. I get MQA from both iPhone and Mac now. In Mac Tidal app I had to uncheck 'disable software decoding of MQA' for the BTR5 to display MQA though.

Thank you @patkwok


----------



## jsmiller58

ricthaman said:


> omg. This fixed it. I get MQA from both iPhone and Mac now. In Mac Tidal app I had to uncheck 'disable software decoding of MQA' for the BTR5 to display MQA though.
> 
> Thank you @patkwok


Too funny!


----------



## kadinh (Feb 17, 2022)

@FiiO  is firmware v2.1 the most recent firmware? i am using v2.0 on my original BTR5 and wondering if i should upgrade.


----------



## FiiO

kadinh said:


> @FiiO  is firmware v2.1 the most recent firmware? i am using v2.0 on my original BTR5 and wondering if i should upgrade.


Dear friend, 

The only difference for users in firmware 2.1 and 2.0 is the version number. So if the firmware version of your BTR5 is 2.0, you don't need to upgrade actually.

Best regards


----------



## jsmiller58 (Feb 17, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> The only difference for users in firmware 2.1 and 2.0 is the version number. So if the firmware version of your BTR5 is 2.0, you don't need to upgrade actually.
> 
> Best regards


Really, FiiO released a new version of FW that only changed… the FW version number?


----------



## rlw6534

jsmiller58 said:


> Really, FiiO released a new version of FW that only changed… the FW version number?



Yes, but it sounds so much better on the new version...


----------



## jsmiller58

rlw6534 said:


> Yes, but it sounds so much better on the new version...


😂😂


----------



## Guy Fawkes (Feb 20, 2022)

This morning i woke up early and immediately a thought came to my mind: i t would be nice if the BTR5 allowed to receive via bluetooth and trasmit via USB.

This would allow it to be connected to a normal desktop DAC/AMP without a bluetooth input module using a USB-C to USB-B cable. I immediately tried but unfortunately it doesn't work

So the connection would be this: BTR5 as bluetooth receiver > USB-C to USB-B cable > DAC/AMP > Headphone/Earphone/Speaker.

What do you say @FiiO , @FiiO Willson it can be done? perhaps with a firmware update that allows you to rout the signal from bluetooth to USB adding a USB Output Mode in control menu.


----------



## FiiO

Guy Fawkes said:


> This morning i woke up early and immediately a thought came to my mind: i t would be nice if the BTR5 allowed to receive via bluetooth and trasmit via USB.
> 
> This would allow it to be connected to a normal desktop DAC/AMP without a bluetooth input module using a USB-C to USB-B cable. I immediately tried but unfortunately it doesn't work
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Thanks for the feedback. But the BTR5 could not support this feature. Maybe we could try to make the product with this function one day in the feature if there are need in the market. 

Best regards


----------



## anicai

Has anyone tried using this with TV over Bluetooth? I was thinking of using it this way when playing on PS5. Is there any latency?


----------



## patkwok

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> We have reported this problem to MQA and located the issue. If everything goes well, the new XMOS firmware for BTR5 2021 will be released this month. And you could still use the UAPP app in Android mobile phone for help or play MQA in PC/iOS version Tidal app.
> 
> Best regards


@FiiO Any update about the progress of new firmware for BTR5 2021?


----------



## jmwant

Gizaudio reviewed the BTR5 2021.


----------



## FiiO

patkwok said:


> @FiiO Any update about the progress of new firmware for BTR5 2021?


Dear friend,

Our quality engineers are arranging the test for the new XMOS firmware now. If there are no any other problem in the firmware, we will release it.

Best regards


----------



## Lifter59

anicai said:


> Has anyone tried using this with TV over Bluetooth? I was thinking of using it this way when playing on PS5. Is there any latency?


I use it with my Samsung TV's all the time and it works great! I have not experienced any lag but then again you are sitting reasonably close to the TV that distance shouldn't be a factor.


----------



## anicai

Lifter59 said:


> I use it with my Samsung TV's all the time and it works great! I have not experienced any lag but then again you are sitting reasonably close to the TV that distance shouldn't be a factor.


That's great, thanks for the info.


----------



## Cricket4life247

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Our quality engineers are arranging the test for the new XMOS firmware now. If there are no any other problem in the firmware, we will release it.
> 
> Best regards


Any news @FiiO


----------



## FiiO

Cricket4life247 said:


> Any news @FiiO


The firmware is still having some other problem so it still take some time for the engineer to provide a newer and more stable version.

Best regards


----------



## LoryWiv

Will the new firmware be for the original version of BTR5 or only the newest one?


----------



## superpowter77

Despite being able to use LDAC with my Sony TWS earbuds on my Samsung Galaxy S21+ and Galaxy A52 G5 phones, BTR5 2021 only connects to my phones either with SBC or Aptx(default), never using LDAC. Is this suppose to be normal for a BTR5 2021 device?


----------



## FiiO

LoryWiv said:


> Will the new firmware be for the original version of BTR5 or only the newest one?


Only for BTR5 2021. The BTR5 does not support MQA.
Best regards


----------



## FiiO

superpowter77 said:


> Despite being able to use LDAC with my Sony TWS earbuds on my Samsung Galaxy S21+ and Galaxy A52 G5 phones, BTR5 2021 only connects to my phones either with SBC or Aptx(default), never using LDAC. Is this suppose to be normal for a BTR5 2021 device?


Do you have another mobile phone which support LDAC to try? And please check via the FiiO Control app. Did you turn off the LDAC Bluetooth codec for the BTR5 2021 in the APP?

Best regards


----------



## superpowter77 (Mar 10, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Do you have another mobile phone which support LDAC to try? And please check via the FiiO Control app. Did you turn off the LDAC Bluetooth codec for the BTR5 2021 in the APP?
> 
> Best regards


I did try with my old LG G5 and G7 phones which I keep only as dedicated Aptx-HD music players and they both didn't work with LDAC either. I was missing an extra step.
The changes have to be made not only in the developer options but in the Bluetooth menu for each phone too:
In the Bluetooth menu I clicked the options of the connected headphone then clicked connectivity and then best sound quality. Now I can use LDAC on all my tested devices: S21+, A52 G5, LG G7 and LG G5.
Note: LG G5 and G7 require rebooting phones right after selecting LDAC under developer options, otherwise Fiio Control App will select SBC by default and not LDAC. After rebooting, LDAC is automatically selected by Fiio Control App.
Thanks.


----------



## FiiO

superpowter77 said:


> I did try with my old LG G5 and G7 phones which I keep only as dedicated Aptx-HD music players and they both didn't work with LDAC either. I was missing an extra step.
> The changes have to be made not only in the developer options but in the Bluetooth menu for each phone too:
> In the Bluetooth menu I clicked the options of the connected headphone then clicked connectivity and then best sound quality. Now I can use LDAC on all my tested devices: S21+, A52 G5, LG G7 and LG G5.
> Thanks.


Glad to hear about that. 
Thanks for the kind feedback. We will share your experience to other user when they meet same problem with LG mobile phone.

Best regards


----------



## Cricket4life247

The Fiio BTR5 2021 with my Fiio FH3 is so so good👌🏻🔥


----------



## superpowter77 (Mar 10, 2022)

Cricket4life247 said:


> The Fiio BTR5 2021 with my Fiio FH3 is so so good👌🏻🔥


Indeed. I do have also FH3 besides FH7. Do you use LDAC or Aptx on your FH3 to be able to use EQ settings?
I wish Fiio Control App could allow user to load custom presets from crinacle's IEM FR measurement database

Not the most elegant solution but seems like Wavelet app is handling AutoEQ custom presets for my FiiO IEM's FH3 and FH7
Not sure if BTR5 2021 is still using LDAC while Wavelet is running or switched to SBC or Aptx???


----------



## Cricket4life247

FiiO said:


> The firmware is still having some other problem so it still take some time for the engineer to provide a newer and more stable version.
> 
> Best regards


Hi, is the update done yet or not?


----------



## senorx12562

superpowter77 said:


> Despite being able to use LDAC with my Sony TWS earbuds on my Samsung Galaxy S21+ and Galaxy A52 G5 phones, BTR5 2021 only connects to my phones either with SBC or Aptx(default), never using LDAC. Is this suppose to be normal for a BTR5 2021 device?


I have a p.o.s. cheap ass Motorola Android phone w/ Android 8 that will not output ldac even when ldac is chosen in dev. options. Ldac doesn't ever appear as an option in the BT menu, even if it is selected in dev. Options. Can't afford a new phone, so....


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 20, 2022)

senorx12562 said:


> I have a p.o.s. cheap ass Motorola Android phone w/ Android 8 that will not output ldac even when ldac is chosen in dev. options. Ldac doesn't ever appear as an option in the BT menu, even if it is selected in dev. Options. Can't afford a new phone, so....


Yeah, unfortunately not all Android devices, especially older ones, support LDAC, either because the circuitry cannot or because the manufacturer chose not to.

Not sure if you have tried this, but just in case:

1.  In the normal Android Bluetooth settings menu (not Developer settings) select the small “wheel” next to the device you are transmitting to (BTR5 or other wireless dongle if you are transmitting to that, or TWS IEMs if that) and set priority to highest quality.  If your phone supports LDAC that should then automatically choose LDAC.

2.  In the Developer mode you can select LDAC if it does not automatically get set by the prior step, but usually that is set when you do step 1.

Steps 1 & 2 should only have to be done one time after you have paired to that device, and it is sticky even after you disconnect devices.  If you ever have your phone “forget” that device you will have to repeat Step 1 & 2.

3.  You can then choose in Developer settings the bandwidth, from Optimized for Connection Quality (330/303kbps) up to Optimized for Audio Quality (909/990).  Note the default is often Adaptive mode, meaning it will dynamically set the performance to the bandwidth that results in fewest transmission losses, but typically this is less than the highest performance).

Steps 1 & 3 seem redundant - in step 1 aren’t you already setting highest quality in the main Bluetooth settings menu?  Think of it this way - step 1 tells the phone to communicate with the Bluetooth device using LDAC, step 3 tells it which performance mode of LDAC to use.

4.  Note that depending on the version of Android you have, you may need to repeat Step 3 and go back to Developer settings *each* *time* you connect to the Bluetooth device if you want to force Highest Audio Quality since Best Effort (330/303kbps) or Adaptive are sometimes the default.

sorry for repeating what you might already know!


----------



## senorx12562

jsmiller58 said:


> Yeah, unfortunately not all Android devices, especially older ones, support LDAC, either because the circuitry cannot or because the manufacturer chose not to.
> 
> Not sure if you have tried this, but just in case:
> 
> ...


Thank you. Even doing all of the above, it defaults back to aptx. I was led to believe that any phone with Android 8 or higher (mine is 8.0.0) would be ldac capable, but that is clearly not true of mine. And so it goes.


----------



## jsmiller58

senorx12562 said:


> Thank you. Even doing all of the above, it defaults back to aptx. I was led to believe that any phone with Android 8 or higher (mine is 8.0.0) would be ldac capable, but that is clearly not true of mine. And so it goes.


Sorry that did not work for you!  I am not sure that just Android 8 unlocks LDAC, though.  I think that it also requires that the phone manufacturer signs Sony’s licensing agreement, and there might be some hardware requirements as well.  But I might be mistaken.


----------



## senorx12562

jsmiller58 said:


> Sorry that did not work for you!  I am not sure that just Android 8 unlocks LDAC, though.  I think that it also requires that the phone manufacturer signs Sony’s licensing agreement, and there might be some hardware requirements as well.  But I might be mistaken.


I don't know either, but I do find it weird that it even appears as a choice for the BT codec used in developer options if the phone is incapable of ldac transmission. The only thing I like about the phone is the price (free w/ 75.00 act. fee). I still can use it wired, but it is micro usb lol.


----------



## imeem

I have a fiio E17 and I want to buy the BTR5 2021. One sound issue I don't about the E17 is that using IEMs, the soundstage is a bit too intimate/close and the bass can be too much.

Can someone describe and compare the sound on the BTR5 2021 if it is like that? also will I notice a difference vs the E17? I'll primarily be using the BTR5 on a smartphone ( Galaxy s10+)

Also, when I do buy it, how do I tell if i actually got the 2021 version and not the original version?


----------



## superpowter77 (Mar 21, 2022)

imeem said:


> I have a fiio E17 and I want to buy the BTR5 2021. One sound issue I don't about the E17 is that using IEMs, the soundstage is a bit too intimate/close and the bass can be too much.
> 
> Can someone describe and compare the sound on the BTR5 2021 if it is like that? also will I notice a difference vs the E17? I'll primarily be using the BTR5 on a smartphone ( Galaxy s10+)
> 
> Also, when I do buy it, how do I tell if i actually got the 2021 version and not the original version?


You're right, BTR5 2021 box will not show it's a 2021 version on front but it does look different from regular BTR5 Box. However, there is a small white label in the back located on top of the bar code that shows BTR5 2021. Also, in the back of the box on top BTR5 2021 will show a MQA Logo which older BTR5 doesn't have.


----------



## imeem (Mar 21, 2022)

superpowter77 said:


> You're right, BTR5 2021 box will not show it's a 2021 version on front but it does look different from regular BTR5 Box. However, there is a small white label in the back located on top of the bar code that shows BTR5 2021. Also, in the back of the box on top BTR5 2021 will show a MQA Logo which older BTR5 doesn't have.



just to confirm, the one in the picture u posted, is that the 2021 or original one?

EDIT: I assume it is the 2021 one.


----------



## senorx12562

And this is the box for the og:


----------



## imeem

senorx12562 said:


> And this is the box for the og:


thanks. good to know for in case I get scammed/the store doesn't know the difference.


----------



## FiiO

imeem said:


> thanks. good to know for in case I get scammed/the store doesn't know the difference.


And you will see a MQA icon in the back panel in the BTR5 2021:







Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Dear friends,

If you would like to try the BTR5 2021 XMOS firmware for improving the compatibility with MQA playback in Android version Tidal app, please PM me.

Best regards


----------



## inkvizition

PM sent. Hope it won't brick the unit 🙃


----------



## Cricket4life247

inkvizition said:


> PM sent. Hope it won't brick the unit 🙃


Lets hope not


----------



## senorx12562

Cricket4life247 said:


> Lets hope not


Oh ye of little faith. Lol.


----------



## FiiO

inkvizition said:


> PM sent. Hope it won't brick the unit 🙃


Will not if you follow the update instruction and update for correct product. The update progress is not difficult. Looking forward to your feedback after updating.

Best regards


----------



## Cricket4life247

I tried it, but it failed, luckily not bricked tho


----------



## Cricket4life247

It is working now thanks👍🏻


----------



## Cricket4life247

Exclusive mode is working


----------



## inkvizition (Mar 24, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Will not if you follow the update instruction and update for correct product. The update progress is not difficult. Looking forward to your feedback after updating.
> 
> Best regards


Thank you for fw test opportunity. The manual should contain that after driver install, restart of PC is required, without it update always results in fault.

Tidal exclusivity mode works, only bug I figured out so far is 0.5sec lag after almost every app switch (browser, messages etc....). It is annoying, but could be also problem on side of my Samsung S20FE, don't know.


----------



## Cricket4life247

inkvizition said:


> Thank you for fw test opportunity. The manual should contain that after driver install, restart of PC is required, without it update always results in fault.
> 
> Tidal exclusivity mode works, only bug I figured out so far is 0.5sec lag after almost every app switch (browser, messages etc....). It is anointing, but could be also problem on side of my Samsung S20FE, don't know.


Same here, I also have the lag


----------



## FiiO

Dear friend,

We failed to reproduce this issue. Do you mean the sound does not output from BTR5 2021 after switching to other app? Using USB mode?

Best regards


----------



## imeem (Mar 25, 2022)

I bought the BTR5 2021. im not able to get it working on my phone via USB cable. I tried it on 2 phones with confirm USB OTG/USB audio, still doesn't work.

I followed https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/552760.html but it doesn't help.

EDIT: got it to work, I had to manually turn off Charging when prompt, I assumed it did it automatically. 1 thing i noticed is that in the Fiio app, despite telling it to prioritize USB audio over bluetooth, it still picks bluetooth first. I would need to turn off bluetooth to make it USB audio, but I can't use the app.


----------



## JosephCW

Just got my unit in from amazon a few days ago.. I periodically have issues when it is connected to my phone where it just pauses my music until I go back into my phone and start playing again. It seems random since it sometimes will play for 5 hours without issues and other times will pause itself 5-6 times in a 10 minute span. Has anyone else run into this issue?


----------



## patkwok (Mar 27, 2022)

deleted


----------



## patkwok

FiiO said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> If you would like to try the BTR5 2021 XMOS firmware for improving the compatibility with MQA playback in Android version Tidal app, please PM me.
> 
> Best regards



I have just successfully updated the BTR5 2021 XMOS firmware and tested the MQA playback in the Android version Tidal.  BTR5 2021 can be correctly recognized by the Tidal app.

I am using Samsung S22 Ultra (Android 12) and Tidal app version 2.57.1  The BTR5 2021 can properly decode MQA in both online streaming or downloaded playback in the Tidal app.

Thanks for @FiiO support to provide updated firmware.


----------



## botmann

JosephCW said:


> Just got my unit in from amazon a few days ago.. I periodically have issues when it is connected to my phone where it just pauses my music until I go back into my phone and start playing again. It seems random since it sometimes will play for 5 hours without issues and other times will pause itself 5-6 times in a 10 minute span. Has anyone else run into this issue?


I have this issue, but it is specific to Tidal.   I uninstalled Tidal since Spotify worked without issue and sound differences were very minuscule.   Not enough to make it worth trouble shooting.


----------



## FiiO

botmann said:


> I have this issue, but it is specific to Tidal.   I uninstalled Tidal since Spotify worked without issue and sound differences were very minuscule.   Not enough to make it worth trouble shooting.


If the issue only happen in certain APP, maybe some settings in the APP lead to the problem.

Best regards


----------



## botmann

FiiO said:


> If the issue only happen in certain APP, maybe some settings in the APP lead to the problem.
> 
> Best regards


I agree.   I fiddle with the settings in the Tidal app, phone settings, and FiiO app.   It did not go away.   It possible driver issue.   I don't use Tidal very much and Spotify's sound was only so close to Tidal's, it wasn't worth it, to me, to spend hours figuring out.


----------



## imeem

How accurate is the battery % on the BTR 2021? I would charge it to 80-90%, turn it off and turn it on few hours later; the battery % will be 60.

Also, i noticed on my S10+ phone, different combinations of sample rate, bitdeph and LDAC codec quality affects the signal quality greatly. 
for example, if I do 96 khz/32 bits @ 990/909 kbps the audio/connection signal always chops/drops. But if I change it to Adaptive Bit Rate @ the same khz/bit depth, its fine.

44.1 khz/32bits @ 990/909 kbps is also fine as well. Is this 2 issue normal?


----------



## Lifter59

imeem said:


> How accurate is the battery % on the BTR 2021? I would charge it to 80-90%, turn it off and turn it on few hours later; the battery % will be 60.
> 
> Also, i noticed on my S10+ phone, different combinations of sample rate, bitdeph and LDAC codec quality affects the signal quality greatly.
> for example, if I do 96 khz/32 bits @ 990/909 kbps the audio/connection signal always chops/drops. But if I change it to Adaptive Bit Rate @ the same khz/bit depth, its fine.
> ...


I just plugged mine in to charge after 2 weeks in a drawer shut off. Shows 4/5 bars at the start of charging.


----------



## imeem (Mar 31, 2022)

Lifter59 said:


> I just plugged mine in to charge after 2 weeks in a drawer shut off. Shows 4/5 bars at the start of charging.


is it more accurate to use the app to tell battery life or the device? on the app, it would say 100% charge and on the device itself would flash 4/5 bars. After i unplug it from charge, app will show 80% and device will show 4/5 bars.


----------



## FiiO

imeem said:


> is it more accurate to use the app to tell battery life or the picture? on the app, it would say 100% charge and on the device itself would flash 4/5 bars. After i unplug it from charge, app will show 80% and device will show 4/5 bars.


The battery bar in the APP may not updated on time. You could enter the APP again before checking the battery.

Best regards


----------



## KiLeAk

Testing the BTR5 2021 XMOS firmware on my Samsung Galaxy Fold 3, seems to work well - 96k, 88.2k, 44.1k all displaying (and I assume playing!) correctly.


----------



## Finger Fish

Has anyone used something like the BTR5 on speakers (R1280T) using the AUX cable? I'm thinking of buying one to turn my pair wireless for when I need it. And wanna know if it works well and sounds fine.


----------



## imeem

Finger Fish said:


> Has anyone used something like the BTR5 on speakers (R1280T) using the AUX cable? I'm thinking of buying one to turn my pair wireless for when I need it. And wanna know if it works well and sounds fine.


i used them in car's aux port before. it works fine. If you are using it primarily for speakers, i feel like the BTA30 Pro would be better because you are not double amping; the BTA 30/ pro has a line out.


FiiO said:


> The battery bar in the APP may not updated on time. You could enter the APP again before checking the battery.
> 
> Best regards


will try that. on another note, I don't understand why holding volume up is for Previous Track, and holding volume down is Next track. It should be the other way around to keep it consistency. too bad the app you can't change this.


----------



## imeem

regarding the offical leather case, the SK-BTR5; can i use it the same time as the clip? is the leather case big enough to hold the clip?


----------



## razvitm (Apr 4, 2022)

FIIO, if you're watching this, can you please add the possibillity of creating multiple custom EQs each with a different name, so we can easily switch from one headphone to another? Some of us are compensating headphone frequency responce with EQ, and this would be very helpful, to have an eq preset for each headphone we use with BTR5... Or just make 5 or 10 custom presets, not just one. Because if it's only one, we have to manually modify it every time we change headphones.


----------



## senorx12562

imeem said:


> regarding the offical leather case, the SK-BTR5; can i use it the same time as the clip? is the leather case big enough to hold the clip?


No, if you look at them, it is not possible to use both at once.


----------



## FiiO

razvitm said:


> FIIO, if you're watching this, can you please add the possibillity of creating multiple custom EQs each with a different name, so we can easily switch from one headphone to another? Some of us are compensating headphone frequency responce with EQ, and this would be very helpful, to have an eq preset for each headphone we use with BTR5... Or just make 5 or 10 custom presets, not just one. Because if it's only one, we have to manually modify it every time we change headphones.


We have reported to the engineer about that before. And more custom EQ may not be added since it may bring some other problems for the BTR5. 

Best regards


----------



## ramdi

I would like to buy a BTR5 2021, but which other problems does it has?


----------



## Luke Skywalker

I’m wondering how the sound will compare between the BTR5 2021 and 1) the HiBy FC5 and 2) the iFi xXSD i‘m currently using for my JH Lola IEMs and Audeze LCD-2 headphones


----------



## FiiO

ramdi said:


> I would like to buy a BTR5 2021, but which other problems does it has?


Dear friend,

Thanks for your interest in our product. You could try it in the local store first：https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy
Or read some reviews by other users.

Best regards


----------



## ramdi

Yes.  but which other problems you said does it has?


----------



## mad001

ramdi said:


> I would like to buy a BTR5 2021, but which other problems does it has?


It would randomly brick itself if you use the EQ function and the audio cuts off sometimes


----------



## zed1975

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Thanks for your interest in our product. You could try it in the local store first：https://www.fiio.com/wheretobuy
> Or read some reviews by other users.
> ...


Hello I have a question whether fiio btr5 2021 mqa will spread wings in developing mqa above 96 khz This is the maximum development I can see In the advertising brochure, expansion x16
Regards


----------



## FiiO

zed1975 said:


> Hello I have a question whether fiio btr5 2021 mqa will spread wings in developing mqa above 96 khz This is the maximum development I can see In the advertising brochure, expansion x16
> Regards


Dear friend,

BTR5 2021 supports up to MQA 16x decoding with applicable music apps. Do you mean playing MQA file in 96kHz? 
You could also read the MQA website for more information: https://www.mqa.co.uk/how-it-works

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

Distinguished FiiO users,

In order to better know the usage scenarios and further improve our products, we are making a questionnaire about Portable DAC/Amps and would like to invite you to participate in it. Thank you so much for your time and support.

Link: https://forms.gle/MszZKV8fKDLdeQ2C9


----------



## Ab10

Any new BTR with 4.4mm anytime soon / far ?


----------



## Ichos

Ab10 said:


> Any new BTR with 4.4mm anytime soon / far ?


https://hxosplus.gr/gadgetech/fiio-btr7-bluetooth/


----------



## Nas Volokin

Ichos said:


> https://hxosplus.gr/gadgetech/fiio-btr7-bluetooth/


Well that looks interesting 🤔 Is it confirmed?


----------



## Ichos

Nas Volokin said:


> Well that looks interesting 🤔 Is it confirmed?


Not officially but where is smoke there is fire 🔥


----------



## henhoy

FiiO said:


> Distinguished FiiO users,
> 
> In order to better know the usage scenarios and further improve our products, we are making a questionnaire about Portable DAC/Amps and would like to invite you to participate in it. Thank you so much for your time and support.
> 
> Link: https://forms.gle/MszZKV8fKDLdeQ2C9


Filled out.

If I where to suggest an improvement for BTR5 2021 then it would be the possibility to connect to computer through USB, while at the same time have being connected through Bluetooth to phone.

This would make it possible to hear music from computer, while being able to receive phone calls at the same time.


----------



## LoryWiv

henhoy said:


> Filled out.
> 
> If I where to suggest an improvement for BTR5 2021 then it would be the possibility to connect to computer through USB, while at the same time have being connected through Bluetooth to phone.
> 
> This would make it possible to hear music from computer, while being able to receive phone calls at the same time.


I have the OG BTR5 and it does function exactly as you describe.


----------



## henhoy

LoryWiv said:


> I have the OG BTR5 and it does function exactly as you describe.


So you can listen to music using USB from computer, and then receive a phone call on the mobile through bluetooth on the headphones connected to the BTR5?


----------



## LoryWiv

Yes, exactly correct. The call interrupts the music playback when I answer by pressing the middle BTR5 button.


----------



## henhoy

LoryWiv said:


> Yes, exactly correct. The call interrupts the music playback when I answer by pressing the middle BTR5 button.


Many thanks.

I do not know if this applies for both models.

What driver do you use in Windows, Microsoft or Fiio?

Does it prompt you to be in charge mode or not, and if so what do you select there?

@Can someone else confirm if this somehow also should work for FiiO BTR5 2021?


----------



## LoryWiv

I use USB Audio driver from FiiO, I believe charging is on, bluetooth of course on as well.


----------



## henhoy

LoryWiv said:


> I use USB Audio driver from FiiO, I believe charging is on, bluetooth of course on as well.


Super, thanks I will give it another try


----------



## FiiO

henhoy said:


> Many thanks.
> 
> I do not know if this applies for both models.
> 
> ...


Dear friend,

Yes, the BTR5 2021 can connect to two devices(one via Bluetooth and the other via USB) at the same time. And you could switch the input priority via the FiiO Control app: https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202109101657246451149

Best regards


----------



## henhoy

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Yes, the BTR5 2021 can connect to two devices(one via Bluetooth and the other via USB) at the same time. And you could switch the input priority via the FiiO Control app: https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202109101657246451149
> 
> Best regards



It is working  

I have one question, I have Office 365 on both computer and phone, and if I am in a MS Teams call on computer, and receive for example an e-mail this gives an notification on my phone, and due to the phone being Bluetooth connected to the Fiio, the sound in the MS Teams call is muted for several seconds, is there any way to shorten the mute period?


----------



## Surf Monkey (May 5, 2022)

I just got one of these. The iFi Go Blu was also on my potentials list but at nearly twice the price and no specific feature upgrade the BTR5 2021 won out over it. iOS app support was also a factor in Fiio’s favor.

This is a great little box. So far I’m running it single ended into a set of Hifiman Deva Pros and it’s working perfectly. Setup on the device was very simple and the fine tuning in the app is a nice addition. I like being able to customize resistance and sensitivity for specific phones. It sounds very good so far too. I don’t hear any hiss and it’s signature must be very flat because the tonality of the Deva Pro is the same wired as it is over the BTR5 2021.


----------



## Chezpi

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Yes, the BTR5 2021 can connect to two devices(one via Bluetooth and the other via USB) at the same time. And you could switch the input priority via the FiiO Control app: https://forum.fiio.com/note/showNoteContent.do?id=202109101657246451149
> 
> Best regards


Hello,
I was interested in knowing when the new version of this bluetooth dac/amp will come out, maybe btr6 or btr5k (I don't know), with a better microphone maybe and with more power and battery, do you already have it in the plans?, thanks.
If you guys don't even plan on it... I guess I'd rush to buy this 2021 version.


----------



## rlw6534

Chezpi said:


> Hello,
> I was interested in knowing when the new version of this bluetooth dac/amp will come out, maybe btr6 or btr5k (I don't know), with a better microphone maybe and with more power and battery, do you already have it in the plans?, thanks.
> If you guys don't even plan on it... I guess I'd rush to buy this 2021 version.



https://www.reddit.com/r/inearfidelity/comments/uf9h67/fiio_btr7_dual_es9219_dac_thx_aaa_amp_44mm/


----------



## Chezpi

rlw6534 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/inearfidelity/comments/uf9h67/fiio_btr7_dual_es9219_dac_thx_aaa_amp_44mm/


thank you, I didn't know about that news


----------



## Guy Fawkes

Chezpi said:


> Hello,
> I was interested in knowing when the new version of this bluetooth dac/amp will come out, maybe btr6 or btr5k (I don't know), with a better microphone maybe and with more power and battery, do you already have it in the plans?, thanks.
> If you guys don't even plan on it... I guess I'd rush to buy this 2021 version.



BTR6 is impossible, FiiO never uses even numbers for its models


----------



## Ichos

BTR7 it is under construction...


----------



## ballog

Ichos said:


> BTR7 it is under construction...


Is that it or just fakes?


----------



## Guy Fawkes (May 7, 2022)

To be honest i don't like this design very much, it takes the form of the M17, suitable for an object of that size but not for such a small one. I think the design of the BTR5 is far more beautiful


----------



## Ichos (May 7, 2022)

ballog said:


> Is that it or just fakes?


No it is not fake, this is it although I don't know if it is the final product.
Double ES9219.


----------



## ilianto

Surf Monkey said:


> I like being able to customize resistance and sensitivity for specific phones.


Resistance and sensitivity are there for you to fill and get an idea for the power output, it's not for customizing the sound of the phones... Have fun.


----------



## Surf Monkey

ilianto said:


> Resistance and sensitivity are there for you to fill and get an idea for the power output, it's not for customizing the sound of the phones... Have fun.



Yeah. I realized that right after making the post. I was waiting for someone to come along and set the record straight.


----------



## r31ya (May 8, 2022)

Seems to be legit. Items shown in Spring Headphones Festival 2022 mini
https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1406705.html
---
Fiio BTR7 (approx, 30.000 yen/$230)






- 3.5mm + 4.4mm
- Dual DAC ES9219
- bluetooth QCC5124 (Fiio Q5s + Qudelix Bluetooth chip,)
- unspecified XMOS USB
- THX AAA amplifier circuit
- 1.3-inch, 240 x 240 dot IPS
Hopefully have bigger/longer battery and much better bluetooth antenna

----
Fiio KA1 (approx 8000 yen/ $60)




- 3.5mm
- DAC ES9281AC PRO
- USB-C/Lighting connector

Tempotec/Sonata contender?


----------



## Blueshound24

ilianto said:


> Resistance and sensitivity are there for you to fill and get an idea for the power output, it's not for customizing the sound of the phones... Have fun.



To be clear, do those settings affect how the BTR5 interacts electronically with headphones in any way, or do they affect the power delivery at all? If not I don't see their purpose.


----------



## Surf Monkey

Blueshound24 said:


> To be clear, do those settings affect how the BTR5 interacts electronically with headphones in any way, or do they affect the power delivery at all? If not I don't see their purpose.



No. It just estimates power consumption.


----------



## megabigeye (May 8, 2022)

Blueshound24 said:


> To be clear, do those settings affect how the BTR5 interacts electronically with headphones in any way, or do they affect the power delivery at all? If not I don't see their purpose.


It does not affect how tht BTR5 performs in any way. 

To be more precise, it only estimates power output assuming a 0dBFS (I'm assuming 1kHz sine wave) signal. Considering you don't listen to 0dBFS 1kHz sine waves (I'm assuming again), it's pretty much a completely useless gimmick.


----------



## FiiO

henhoy said:


> It is working
> 
> I have one question, I have Office 365 on both computer and phone, and if I am in a MS Teams call on computer, and receive for example an e-mail this gives an notification on my phone, and due to the phone being Bluetooth connected to the Fiio, the sound in the MS Teams call is muted for several seconds, is there any way to shorten the mute period?


Dear friend,

Sorry no. 

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

FiiO 2022 new product schedule    

...

*(2) New Bluetooth DAC/Amps preview and existing product information*

Our definition for Bluetooth DAC and amplifier is a compact body, Bluetooth receiving emphasis, USB decoding support, while can also be used as a USB dongle and support phone calls through the built-in mic.
This year, FiiO will continue to expand its Bluetooth DAC/Amp product line and release a high-end model, the BTR7. In fact, the BTR7 has already shown up at the just-concluded Japan Headphone Spring Festival.
The biggest feature of the BTR7 is that it supports 4.4 balanced headphone output. Compared with the DAC integrated amp circuit commonly used in Bluetooth DAC/Amps, the independent THX amp applied has a greater improvement in sound quality, and the larger high-resolution color display also improves user experience. More detailed information will be announced at the new product launch event expected in June.
We have no update plans for the currently hot-selling BTR5 and BTR3K this year. In the future, FiiO's product line of Bluetooth DAC/Amp will be composed of the BTR3K, BTR5, and BTR7. It provides consumers with rich choices of different price ranges, sound quality, portability and functions.









...


----------



## r31ya

FiiO said:


> FiiO 2022 new product schedule
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Right on time i'm planning to buy Xduoo Link2Bal to replace my DFRed...

Hows the power output on 3.5mm and 4.4mm?
the old 3.5mm barely able to make sound for HE400SE (which is a bit heavy)


----------



## FiiO

r31ya said:


> Right on time i'm planning to buy Xduoo Link2Bal to replace my DFRed...
> 
> Hows the power output on 3.5mm and 4.4mm?
> the old 3.5mm barely able to make sound for HE400SE (which is a bit heavy)


Dear friend,

We could not provide the exact parameter currently. But the output power of 3.5mm port for BTR7 will be higher than the BTR5. If you don't mind to wait, you could compare when the BTR7 is available.

Best regards


----------



## C_Lindbergh (May 21, 2022)

Looks like a nice upgrade, first of this type of product with wireless charging too I believe.

But the price will be increased substantially, and battery life will remain the same despite the much larger battery (guess the new amp requires a lot of power).

4.4mm balanced headphone out

·THX fully balanced amp circuit

·Colored ips large screen

·Wireless charging

·QCC5124 Bluetooth chip (aptx Adaptive) + Dual ES9219

https://fiio-shop.de/en/portable-audio/bluetooth-dac-amp/1323/fiio-btr7

I really hope the USB-dac mode will work the same as the 5k...were it bypasses the internal battery completely and thus saving battery health.


----------



## globobock

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> No. The BTR5 does not have MFI. But theoretically, if you would like to use the BTR5 as the USB DAC, you could connect the ios device with the BTR5 via the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK) ，with BTR5 charge option in off status.
> 
> Best regards


Hi,
so normal USB.C to lightning adaptor/cable will not work, even the original ones from Apple? Why does it work with the Fiio LT LT 1 cable, what is the difference?
Can it work with any lightning to USB OTG?

I'm curious about the technical reasons.


----------



## Surf Monkey (Jun 10, 2022)

globobock said:


> Hi,
> so normal USB.C to lightning adaptor/cable will not work, even the original ones from Apple? Why does it work with the Fiio LT LT 1 cable, what is the difference?
> Can it work with any lightning to USB OTG?
> 
> I'm curious about the technical reasons.



I hope someone actually knows the technical reasons. I know that many of us have done the DAC cable dance with Apple hardware. I have a whole bunch of useless USB C to Lightning cables to prove it. Several of them even claimed to be OTG.

EDIT: and no, you don’t need the camera connection kit to use the BTR5 wired.


----------



## globobock

Surf Monkey said:


> I hope someone actually knows the technical reasons. I know that many of us have done the DAC cable dance with Apple hardware. I have a whole bunch of useless USB C to Lightning cables to prove it. Several of them even claimed to be OTG.
> 
> EDIT: and no, you don’t need the camera connection kit to use the BTR5 wired.


So, which cables worked? I‘ve returned a couple cables myself.


----------



## Ab10

Great info shared about BTR 7

150mW @ 32ohm SE
300mW @ 32ohm BAL

Hope this remains true.


----------



## globobock

BTW, found really good offers on FIIO accessories, inc. cables, on wifimedia.eu 

Store is located in Arnhem, NL.


----------



## Surf Monkey

globobock said:


> So, which cables worked? I‘ve returned a couple cables myself.



This one:

https://a.co/d/4ZnYS8H

The longer version also works:

https://a.co/d/epjq7bw

I also have one of these and it works well too. It’s handy because it’s short. 

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLJddKe


----------



## LoryWiv

Ab10 said:


> Great info shared about BTR 7
> 
> 150mW @ 32ohm SE
> 300mW @ 32ohm BAL
> ...


Hmmm, balanced output isn't really that much higher then BTR5's 240 mW.


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> Hi,
> so normal USB.C to lightning adaptor/cable will not work, even the original ones from Apple? Why does it work with the Fiio LT LT 1 cable, what is the difference?
> Can it work with any lightning to USB OTG?
> 
> I'm curious about the technical reasons.


Dear globobock,

The USB C to lightning cable from Apple may not have OTG function. Some users told us that this cable could not work with the BTR5 and other DAC.

Best regards


----------



## imeem (Jun 11, 2022)

whats the purpose of the included USB C to USB cable? I tried it on 2 Android phones, it does not support USB OTG for USB DAC. I thought it was my phones, but i tried another USB C to USB C cable, it works.

Is my included USB C Cable defective?

EDIT: i noticed the cable has arrow on it, it only works if the arrow is pointing towards the BTR5. Why did Fiio design the cable this way?


----------



## zeko39 (Jun 11, 2022)

So, the battery of my 2 year old BTR5 has swollen, and since the warranty has expired I took it apart to see what kind of battery I need as a replacement, but couldn't find the exact model.
I've found a similarly sized battery with a higher capacity though and will be trying it out, 1150mah to be precise, but who knows if said capacity truly holds up.
I'm no expert when it comes batteries or electronics in general but from the looks of it the original battery is a Lithium Polymer type if I'm not mistaken.
Do you guys think any other LiPo battery with 3.7V will work?


----------



## globobock

My iPhone works with a third party lightning to female USB A OTG, combined wirh the FIIO USB C to USB A. But sometimes you have to unplug and plug to be recognized.

Now I can wait for the FIIO LT-LT3 in relax.


----------



## globobock

FiiO said:


> Dear globobock,
> 
> The USB C to lightning cable from Apple may not have OTG function. Some users told us that this cable could not work with the BTR5 and other DAC.
> 
> Best regards


Yes I can verify that. Will return my apple lightning to USB C cable.


----------



## globobock (Jun 13, 2022)

Tried it with my DT880 600ohm… no problems at all! Enough Volume at 30ish.

Only problem I have - how can I play DSDs out from an Iphone over the BTR5?

BTW, I just ordered a Kindle Fire HD 8 2020 (refurbished from Amazon, 60€), want to use it as a dedicated Musik Player in combo withe the BTR5.

Edit: Managed to play DSD using the VOX App.
Using Etymotics ER4pt, for the life of me, I can't hear any or only small difference to 16/44.1 redbook.

Am I the only one?


----------



## FiiO

zeko39 said:


> So, the battery of my 2 year old BTR5 has swollen, and since the warranty has expired I took it apart to see what kind of battery I need as a replacement, but couldn't find the exact model.
> I've found a similarly sized battery with a higher capacity though and will be trying it out, 1150mah to be precise, but who knows if said capacity truly holds up.
> I'm no expert when it comes batteries or electronics in general but from the looks of it the original battery is a Lithium Polymer type if I'm not mistaken.
> Do you guys think any other LiPo battery with 3.7V will work?


Dear zeko39,

Sorry about that. Yes, the 3.7V battery could theoretically work with the BTR5 as well.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> Tried it with my DT880 600ohm… no problems at all! Enough Volume at 30ish.
> 
> Only problem I have - how can I play DSDs out from an Iphone over the BTR5?
> 
> ...


Dear globobock,

You could try the FiiO Music app for playing DSD files.

Best regards


----------



## prakalejas

1. Is it normal, that turning EQ with default Custom (all values 0) changes sound output? I mean - shouldn't the output be the same with or without EQ if EQ is set as baseline?
2. Max sound level on Android device seems to be way lower than on PC (both BT connected).
3. Only 2 lowpass filters are available on Android Fiio Control app (linear and hybrid) - reviews online showed more than that - is it limited by app or connected headphones?


----------



## globobock

FiiO said:


> Dear globobock,
> 
> You could try the FiiO Music app for playing DSD files.
> 
> Best regards


So far I haven't succeed to access my downloaded .dsf files with Fiio Music.


----------



## FiiO

prakalejas said:


> 1. Is it normal, that turning EQ with default Custom (all values 0) changes sound output? I mean - shouldn't the output be the same with or without EQ if EQ is set as baseline?
> 2. Max sound level on Android device seems to be way lower than on PC (both BT connected).
> 3. Only 2 lowpass filters are available on Android Fiio Control app (linear and hybrid) - reviews online showed more than that - is it limited by app or connected headphones?


Dear prakalejas,
1. When EQ is on, the volume decreases:  https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/63367.html
2. The Bluetooth output level of your Android device may be different from your PC.
3. If you are using BTR5 2021 instead of BTR5, the filters are two.

Best regards


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> So far I haven't succeed to access my downloaded .dsf files with Fiio Music.


Dear globobock,

You would need to transfer the DSD file to FiiO Music app first in your iPhone. 
Help: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201301 

Best regards


----------



## globobock (Jun 15, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Dear globobock,
> 
> You would need to transfer the DSD file to FiiO Music app first in your iPhone.
> Help: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201301
> ...


That is unfortunate since I hardly use a PC these days and would rather just work on the phone.

BTW, I manage to do it using VOX, you can simply share the downloaded file to the VOX app using the phone.

It shouldn't be too difficult to enable the FiiO App access local files within the phone, without requiring a PC in between, no?


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> That is unfortunate since I hardly use a PC these days and would rather just work on the phone.
> 
> BTW, I manage to do it using VOX, you can simply share the downloaded file to the VOX app using the phone.
> 
> It shouldn't be too difficult to enable the FiiO App access local files within the phone, without requiring a PC in between, no?


Dear globobock,

Sorry I am not using a iPhone so I am not quite familiar about that. But in my iPad, the APP could not access the local files unless I upload the files for the certain APP. 

You could also try whether the Wifi transfer function in the FiiO Music app could help?

Best regards


----------



## globobock

FiiO said:


> Dear globobock,
> 
> Sorry I am not using a iPhone so I am not quite familiar about that. But in my iPad, the APP could not access the local files unless I upload the files for the certain APP.
> 
> ...


The thing is, I don‘t want to use a PC just so that a phone app might use a file that is already on my phone! VOX has hadled it fine, Fiio should be able too.


----------



## globobock

globobock said:


> The thing is, I don‘t want to use a PC just so that a phone app might use a file that is already on my phone! VOX has hadled it fine, Fiio should be able too.


It also works with Onkyo HF and Hiby Music App - no PC needed for files downloaded directly to the Phone.

BTW, on Hiby, dff files were displayed as DSD on the BTR5 while dsf files were downsampled to 88khz pcm. It is an app problem, I suppose?


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> It also works with Onkyo HF and Hiby Music App - no PC needed for files downloaded directly to the Phone.
> 
> BTW, on Hiby, dff files were displayed as DSD on the BTR5 while dsf files were downsampled to 88khz pcm. It is an app problem, I suppose?


Dear globobock,

1. You could try the Wifi transfer function in the FiiO Music app as well.
2. You could check whether there are any setting int the app may lead to the issue? And also check via other dsf file.

Best regards


----------



## EdgeDC

Guy Fawkes said:


> BTR6 is impossible, FiiO never uses even numbers for its models


Well... except for the FiiO M6.


----------



## globobock

FiiO said:


> Dear globobock,
> 
> 1. You could try the Wifi transfer function in the FiiO Music app as well.
> 2. You could check whether there are any setting int the app may lead to the issue? And also check via other dsf file.
> ...


Forget it, it works with my fire hd 8 
BUT … it plays up to DSD128 with Fiio Music, but it won‘t play DSD256 files.

Is there some settings, either on the Fiio App or the BTR5 that I got wrong?


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> Forget it, it works with my fire hd 8
> BUT … it plays up to DSD128 with Fiio Music, but it won‘t play DSD256 files.
> 
> Is there some settings, either on the Fiio App or the BTR5 that I got wrong?


Dear globobock,

Yes, the FiiO Music app ios version could only support up to DSD 128. You could check whether there are other app supporting DSD256 native output in iOS device for help? 

Best regards


----------



## globobock (Jun 22, 2022)

FiiO said:


> Dear globobock,
> 
> Yes, the FiiO Music app ios version could only support up to DSD 128. You could check whether there are other app supporting DSD256 native output in iOS device for help?
> 
> Best regards


Hi no it is not the iOS version, this time I am using the Fiio Music App for Android (from Google Playstore) on the Fire HD 8.

It is also a limitation by the app then, good to know.

Not that I plan to listen to DSD in the future, I just wanted to test the capabilities of the BTR5.


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> Hi no it is not the iOS version, this time I am using the Fiio Music App for Android (from Google Playstore) on the Fire HD 8.
> 
> It is also a limitation by the app then, good to know.
> 
> Not that I plan to listen to DSD in the future, I just wanted to test the capabilities of the BTR5.


Dear globobock,

Please try to switch the DSD output mode to 'native' in the USB output menu of the FiiO Music app, then try to connect the Android mobile phone to the BTR5 again:





Best regards


----------



## globobock

FiiO said:


> Dear globobock,
> 
> Please try to switch the DSD output mode to 'native' in the USB output menu of the FiiO Music app, then try to connect the Android mobile phone to the BTR5 again:
> 
> ...


Thx I'll try it.
BTW., the USB-C cable is just too short, I'm looking for longer cables. Can we use just any USB-C male to male cable?


----------



## globobock

…where do I find the USB output menu? Can‘t find it on settings.


----------



## FiiO

globobock said:


> …where do I find the USB output menu? Can‘t find it on settings.










Best regards


----------



## inkvizition

Hi, anyone experiencing bug with "beta" BTR5 firmware here? In Android Tidal Exclusive mode I am not often able to play any song (same behavior like very slow loading, but even for offline downloaded albums so definitely not connection issue). It works immediately when BTR5 unplugged - no fault message appears so nothing to mention here. Happens very often. Source Samsung S20FE 5G. 
It also makes pauses when switching apps on my phone so it seems that returning to UAPP will be better idea than trying to use Tidal app . 
Is it possible to revert XMOS firmware back so Tidal would not fight with UAPP for exclusive mode anymore? :-D


----------



## Strifeff7

inkvizition said:


> Hi, anyone experiencing bug with "beta" BTR5 firmware here? In Android Tidal Exclusive mode I am not often able to play any song (same behavior like very slow loading, but even for offline downloaded albums so definitely not connection issue). It works immediately when BTR5 unplugged - no fault message appears so nothing to mention here. Happens very often. Source Samsung S20FE 5G.
> It also makes pauses when switching apps on my phone so it seems that returning to UAPP will be better idea than trying to use Tidal app .
> Is it possible to revert XMOS firmware back so Tidal would not fight with UAPP for exclusive mode anymore? :-D


Will try to test it later,
How about bluetooth? Any issue?


----------



## inkvizition (Jul 11, 2022)

> @Strifeff7: How about bluetooth? Any issue?


Bluetooth works fine with any app. Only wire issues.


----------



## The1uan

Apologies if this has already been asked countless times and answered:
Is the EQ=Bricked issue already been addressed?
Thanks!!


----------



## FiiO

inkvizition said:


> Hi, anyone experiencing bug with "beta" BTR5 firmware here? In Android Tidal Exclusive mode I am not often able to play any song (same behavior like very slow loading, but even for offline downloaded albums so definitely not connection issue). It works immediately when BTR5 unplugged - no fault message appears so nothing to mention here. Happens very often. Source Samsung S20FE 5G.
> It also makes pauses when switching apps on my phone so it seems that returning to UAPP will be better idea than trying to use Tidal app .
> Is it possible to revert XMOS firmware back so Tidal would not fight with UAPP for exclusive mode anymore? :-D


Dear inkvizition,

You mean BTR5 or BTR5 2021? For BTR5, it does not support MQA. So you may need to switch the straming quality to HiFi in Tidal app.

Best regards


----------



## ipaddy (Aug 5, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## Hinomotocho

I was watching some comparison reviews on YouTube contemplating the BTR7 as an upgrade and thought this made a nice shot.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

The mirrored picture is way sharper on the BTR5.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Chris Kaoss said:


> The mirrored picture is way sharper on the BTR5.


It is a 4K TV but looks like first generation 720p, I think the extreme close up focus made it looked washed out. 

Possibly my BTR5 is my most used audio item (TV/movies every night) and has performed outstandingly but I woke up this morning thinking I might just treat myself to the BTR7. Anyone else upgraded or own both, or sticking with your trusty BTR5? I am just about to start reading the BTR7 thread.


----------



## Stevko

Hinomotocho said:


> It is a 4K TV but looks like first generation 720p, I think the extreme close up focus made it looked washed out.
> 
> Possibly my BTR5 is my most used audio item (TV/movies every night) and has performed outstandingly but I woke up this morning thinking I might just treat myself to the BTR7. Anyone else upgraded or own both, or sticking with your trusty BTR5? I am just about to start reading the BTR7 thread.


Buy it if you need the power 👍😊
Both sounds good 😊


----------



## LoryWiv (Aug 31, 2022)

Hinomotocho said:


> It is a 4K TV but looks like first generation 720p, I think the extreme close up focus made it looked washed out.
> 
> Possibly my BTR5 is my most used audio item (TV/movies every night) and has performed outstandingly but I woke up this morning thinking I might just treat myself to the BTR7. Anyone else upgraded or own both, or sticking with your trusty BTR5? I am just about to start reading the BTR7 thread.


BTR5 is one of those rare products I am so content with I have no desire to upgrade. It does what I want it to for bluetooth use including phone calls, DAC listening from  PC, consistently and well. Multipoint works great so when using for music or as PC DAC and a call comes in I can take it. Sound quality rivals some of my more expensive gear. Doesn't take up much space on my desk. I could go on, but conclusion is: BTR5 is a  keeper.


----------



## Nas Volokin

LoryWiv said:


> BTR5 is one of those rare products I am so content with I have no desire to upgrade. It does what I want it to for bluetooth use including phone calls, DAC listening from  PC, consistently and well. Multipoint works great so when using for music or as PC DAC and a call comes in I can take it. Sound quality rivals some of my more expensive gear. Doesn't take up much space on my desk. I could go on, but conclusion is: BTR5 is a  keeper.


Been a happy user almost a year now, and I think it's great little device! 
Was thinking of upgrading to BTR7, but it's not going to be much of an upgrade. I love it the way it is. It's even musically better than my KA3!
The only con is probably that it doesn't have 4.4 balanced output but other than that it is indeed superior


----------



## Surf Monkey

Nas Volokin said:


> Been a happy user almost a year now, and I think it's great little device!
> Was thinking of upgrading to BTR7, but it's not going to be much of an upgrade. I love it the way it is. It's even musically better than my KA3!
> The only con is probably that it doesn't have 4.4 balanced output but other than that it is indeed superior



My thinking too… until I noticed that the BTR7 has wireless charging. That jets it back up to the top of my list. BTR5 is great but I’d love to be able to charge it and listen to it wired at the same time.


----------



## Nas Volokin

Surf Monkey said:


> My thinking too… until I noticed that the BTR7 has wireless charging. That jets it back up to the top of my list. BTR5 is great but I’d love to be able to charge it and listen to it wired at the same time.


Yeah you're probably right! I use it mostly wired to my laptop so it doesn't need charging and if I use it more than 3 hours on my phone I just plug it in my pc to recharge while listening   It would've been great if it supports wireless charging though!


----------



## Sioban

I have been using the BTR5 for about 2 years and its been great from the start. However a few days ago I noticed that the volume of sound differs depending on what device it is connected to. So for instance, if I connect the BTR5 to my Samsung tablet and play music at a given volume, it will be louder than if I connect it to my android phone and playing the same song at the same level. I am using the same codec (APTX). I have changed codecs without any different results.

Do any of you have a clue what might be wrong here? I do not think I have had this problem before.


----------



## SenorChang8

Sioban said:


> I have been using the BTR5 for about 2 years and its been great from the start. However a few days ago I noticed that the volume of sound differs depending on what device it is connected to. So for instance, if I connect the BTR5 to my Samsung tablet and play music at a given volume, it will be louder than if I connect it to my android phone and playing the same song at the same level. I am using the same codec (APTX). I have changed codecs without any different results.
> 
> Do any of you have a clue what might be wrong here? I do not think I have had this problem before.



Is the volume maxed out on both your tablet and phone? Volume should be 100% and use BTR5 to control listening volume.


----------



## Sioban

SenorChang8 said:


> Is the volume maxed out on both your tablet and phone? Volume should be 100% and use BTR5 to control listening volume.



Yes, the volume is 100% on both units.


----------



## Stevko

Delete pairing. And pair again…


----------



## FiiO

Sioban said:


> I have been using the BTR5 for about 2 years and its been great from the start. However a few days ago I noticed that the volume of sound differs depending on what device it is connected to. So for instance, if I connect the BTR5 to my Samsung tablet and play music at a given volume, it will be louder than if I connect it to my android phone and playing the same song at the same level. I am using the same codec (APTX). I have changed codecs without any different results.
> 
> Do any of you have a clue what might be wrong here? I do not think I have had this problem before.


Dear friend,

Maybe the Bluetooth output volume of your phone and tablet are different.

Best regards


----------



## ccrys

There is a option to use Btr5 microphone instead headphones built in microphone? I'm using Btr5 + Sony Mdr 1A for calls and I want to try Fiio microphone.


----------



## Chris Kaoss

There are two ways to use the built in micro of the BTR5, afaik.
One as the primary micro, and 2nd as a noise cancelation mic (with cable microphone active).


----------



## FiiO

ccrys said:


> There is a option to use Btr5 microphone instead headphones built in microphone? I'm using Btr5 + Sony Mdr 1A for calls and I want to try Fiio microphone.


Dear friend,

You could try to turn off the wire function option via the FiiO Control app for help:





Best regards


----------



## Sioban

Stevko said:


> Delete pairing. And pair again…



Thanks. This solved the issue.


----------



## andjayik

Can i connect this via bluetooth to car stereo and to my phone and play ldac through system?


----------



## Alex May

andjayik said:


> Can i connect this via bluetooth to car stereo and to my phone and play ldac through system?


If your car stereo accepts bluetooth then why would you need a mediator between your phone and the stereo? No, the BTR5 is not a transmitter, so it can't re-transmit the signal received. There is no point in doing so anyway. Even if the BTR5 was a transmitter, and if the car stereo does not accept LDAC, then there is absolutely no advantage in having LDAC in the BTR5 since it wouldn't transmit to the stereo anyway. You can only connect the BTR5 via cable to your car stereo if there is an AUX input. Or simply connect your phone to the car stereo via bluetooth without looking for a mediator in between. I'm still thinking whether I've actually understood your question.


----------



## andjayik (Oct 20, 2022)

May old stock stereo sounded way better with my phone 📱 via dac connected to aux port. Now my new Sony car 🚗 stereo with Android auto 🚘 has no aux port,  only usb. Music does not sound 🔉 good as it once did with ⌚️ the dac.  Im trying anything to make it sound 🔉 better. I think as is only paying in aac codec which sounds horrible as I'm used to hi-res


----------



## silentraindrop

andjayik said:


> May old stock stereo sounded way better with my phone 📱 via dac connected to aux port. Now my new Sony car 🚗 stereo with Android auto 🚘 has no aux port,  only usb. Music does not sound 🔉 good as it once did with ⌚️ the dac.  Im trying anything to make it sound 🔉 better. I think as is only paying in aac codec which sounds horrible as I'm used to hi-res


If your new Sony does not have 3.5mm aux input, I would check if it has RCA input in the back of the device.  Phone LDAC-> BTR5 -> BRT5 3.5mm out -> RCA.

If wired AA or playing directly from USB thumb drive does not sound sufficient, I would question the sound system as whole.


----------



## botmann

andjayik said:


> Can i connect this via bluetooth to car stereo and to my phone and play ldac through system?


No.   The device you connect via bluetooth is a source material.   Connecting our car stereo would mean it's the source material and you're wanting to use headphones, which is most places, having both ears covered while driving is illegal.

If you wanted to connect to your stereo via USB, 3.5mm, or 2.5mm and connect your phone to the BTR to be able to play through your stereo, sure.   There are more elegant solutions, but it would work that way.  This situaton is very dependent on what kind of inputs your car stereo has.


----------



## dinkostinko (Oct 21, 2022)

Using this cable (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KLXYQDH?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1) with my iPhone 12 and the BTR5, I'm able to get music to play for a few seconds then it stops.


----------



## Surf Monkey

dinkostinko said:


> Using this cable (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KLXYQDH?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1) with my iPhone 12 and the BTR5, I'm able to get music to play for a few seconds then it stops.



I have several of that same cable. Haven’t had one go bad, but it sounds like yours may have a short?


----------



## dinkostinko

Surf Monkey said:


> I have several of that same cable. Haven’t had one go bad, but it sounds like yours may have a short?


It seems the USB-C port on my BTR5 is very wobbly and any movement causes it to disconnect. I don't think it's the cables fault!


----------



## silentraindrop

dinkostinko said:


> It seems the USB-C port on my BTR5 is very wobbly and any movement causes it to disconnect. I don't think it's the cables fault!


I guess bluetooth is not an option for you?  Is it still under warranty?  If you are very handy, I suppose you can pry it open and replace the usb c port.  Offer it on classifieds for trade with usb dongle?


----------



## dinkostinko

silentraindrop said:


> I guess bluetooth is not an option for you?  Is it still under warranty?  If you are very handy, I suppose you can pry it open and replace the usb c port.  Offer it on classifieds for trade with usb dongle?


I'll figure something out.  Thanks!


----------



## FiiO

dinkostinko said:


> It seems the USB-C port on my BTR5 is very wobbly and any movement causes it to disconnect. I don't think it's the cables fault!


Dear friend,

You could check via other usb cable and connect to other device. If the issue remains, you could try to contact support@fiio.com or the seller for help. Thank you.

Best regards


----------



## Chezpi

someone compared the microphone vs qudelix 5k


----------



## patkwok

I have owned the BTR5 2021 for almost a year.  Thanks for the last update of the firmware so that it can be recognized by Tidal app in android device.  Recently, I have change my android phone to Samsung S22 Ultra and tried to connect the BTR5 2021 through the USB-C cable.  The Tidal app cannot recognize the BTR5 2021 and cannot do the MQA decode.  However, if I using the USB Audio Player Pro app in the phone, it can successfully connect with the BTR and do the MQA decode.

The Tidal app version using: 2.72.0
Android version:  Android 12

Grateful if you could have advice on my case.

Thank you. 

@FiiO Support


----------



## Ab10 (Dec 9, 2022)

patkwok said:


> I have owned the BTR5 2021 for almost a year.  Thanks for the last update of the firmware so that it can be recognized by Tidal app in android device.  Recently, I have change my android phone to Samsung S22 Ultra and tried to connect the BTR5 2021 through the USB-C cable.  The Tidal app cannot recognize the BTR5 2021 and cannot do the MQA decode.  However, if I using the USB Audio Player Pro app in the phone, it can successfully connect with the BTR and do the MQA decode.
> 
> The Tidal app version using: 2.72.0
> Android version:  Android 12
> ...



Upgrade to 2.73 version, Tidal 2.72 can’t detect any external DAC - Tested with BTR7 as well iFi Go Bar in several Android Device. Last version that support problem free external USB DAC was 2.71.1.

https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/tidal/


----------



## patkwok

Ab10 said:


> Upgrade to 2.73 version, Tidal 2.72 can’t detect any external DAC - Tested with BTR7 as well iFi Go Bar in several Android Device. Last version that support problem free external USB DAC was 2.71.1.
> 
> https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/tidal/


Thank you.  However, there is no update to 2.7.3 from the Google Play Store in my place.  I will wait for it.


----------



## FiiO

patkwok said:


> I have owned the BTR5 2021 for almost a year.  Thanks for the last update of the firmware so that it can be recognized by Tidal app in android device.  Recently, I have change my android phone to Samsung S22 Ultra and tried to connect the BTR5 2021 through the USB-C cable.  The Tidal app cannot recognize the BTR5 2021 and cannot do the MQA decode.  However, if I using the USB Audio Player Pro app in the phone, it can successfully connect with the BTR and do the MQA decode.
> 
> The Tidal app version using: 2.72.0
> Android version:  Android 12
> ...


Dear friend,
Please check the Tidal app in earlier version to see whether the issue remains? Some users told us that the latest version Tidal app would not output MQA to all his DAC now. But the issue disappeared when using older version Tidal app.

Best regards


----------



## r31ya

whybtr5 fiio bluetooth mode with my phone is outputting more volume than wired connection to my laptop?


----------



## EdgeDC

r31ya said:


> whybtr5 fiio bluetooth mode with my phone is outputting more volume than wired connection to my laptop?


Probably because the cheap amplifier inside your laptop sucks _(like with most laptops - sound quality is an afterthought)_, and the ones inside the BTR5 don't.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 10, 2022)

EdgeDC said:


> Probably because the cheap amplifier inside your laptop sucks _(like with most laptops - sound quality is an afterthought)_, and the ones inside the BTR5 don't.


No, both are using btr5 
one via bluetooth, one via wired (usb) 
So laptop amp is not used


----------



## EdgeDC (Dec 11, 2022)

r31ya said:


> No, both are using btr5
> one via bluetooth, one via wired (usb)
> So laptop amp is not used


Ah OK, my mistake then, sorry. I read _"wired connection to my laptop"_ as _"plugging my headphones/IEMs into my laptop's audio jack"_. Whoops! 😇

The one _correctly _related thing I can say is that the Bluetooth chip in the BTR5 has a direct impact on the sound (separate from just "wireless vs. wired"). For example, the ability to set EQ is only available via Bluetooth, not USB - because it is the Bluetooth chip that offers that functionality.


----------



## rlw6534 (Dec 11, 2022)

r31ya said:


> whybtr5 fiio bluetooth mode with my phone is outputting more volume than wired connection to my laptop?



You may have separate volume controls for the laptop and also the BTR5 when using BT.  Normally you would turn the laptop BT volume to 100% and control actual volume on the BTR5.  It does depend on your specific laptop and OS configuration.


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## gargani

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> Please check the Tidal app in earlier version to see whether the issue remains? Some users told us that the latest version Tidal app would not output MQA to all his DAC now. But the issue disappeared when using older version Tidal app.
> 
> Best regards


Can anyone answer this question: does using a better Bluetooth codec drain the battery faster than a lower Bluetooth codec?


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## Nas Volokin

gargani said:


> Can anyone answer this question: does using a better Bluetooth codec drain the battery faster than a lower Bluetooth codec?


I think so yes. From memory I believe ldac drained the battery faster than let's say AptX


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## gargani

Nas Volokin said:


> I think so yes. From memory I believe ldac drained the battery faster than let's say AptX


Yea, That's what I thought but wasn't sure. Thanks for the reply.


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## FiiO

gargani said:


> Can anyone answer this question: does using a better Bluetooth codec drain the battery faster than a lower Bluetooth codec?


Dear friend,

According to our test, the battery life of BTR5 is longer (same volume and headphone) when using SBC Bluetooth codec comparing with using LDAC Bluetooth codec.

Best regards


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## garlicky

rlw6534 said:


> You may have separate volume controls for the laptop and also the BTR5 when using BT.  Normally you would turn the laptop BT volume to 100% and control actual volume on the BTR5.  It does depend on your specific laptop and OS configuration.





FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> According to our test, the battery life of BTR5 is longer (same volume and headphone) when using SBC Bluetooth codec comparing with using LDAC Bluetooth codec.
> 
> Best regards





FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> According to our test, the battery life of BTR5 is longer (same volume and headphone) when using SBC Bluetooth codec comparing with using LDAC Bluetooth codec.
> 
> Best regards


Thanks, I have another question. Does the btr5 have a battery level indication on the btr5 itself or just in the app?
Any indication on the btr5 that the battery is close to running out?


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## digititus

garlicky said:


> Thanks, I have another question. Does the btr5 have a battery level indication on the btr5 itself or just in the app?
> Any indication on the btr5 that the battery is close to running out?


It displays battery level on the front of the BTR5. Press the power button once to see it


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## gargani

digititus said:


> It displays battery level on the front of the BTR5. Press the power button once to see it


Oh thanks. Good to know. I have a btr5 on the way. Should be here in a couple of days.
On a completely unrelated topic. How do I post a comment on this thread without quoting or replying to anyone?


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## EdgeDC

gargani said:


> Oh thanks. Good to know. I have a btr5 on the way. Should be here in a couple of days.
> On a completely unrelated topic. How do I post a comment on this thread without quoting or replying to anyone?


The very bottom of the screen should have a compose box without you having to hit Reply on any other comments.


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## garlicky

rlw6534 said:


> You may have separate volume controls for the laptop and also the BTR5 when using BT.  Normally you would turn the laptop BT volume to 100% and control actual volume on the BTR5.  It does depend on your specific laptop and OS configuration.


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## gargani

No compose box on the bottom of the screen. Just quote and reply


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## gargani (Dec 29, 2022)

Edit


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## gargani (Dec 29, 2022)

gargani said:


> Edit.


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## gargani (Dec 29, 2022)

I think I may have found it. It doesn't say compose. It just says post reply and it is at the bottom of the screen


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## garlicky

EdgeDC said:


> The very bottom of the screen should have a compose box without you having to hit Reply on any other comments.


Yea, I'm pretty sure that's it. At the bottom of the screen there's a box to write reply and under that box it says post reply.
Thanks for your help


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## EdgeDC

gargani said:


> I think I may have found it. It doesn't say compose. It just says post reply and it is at the bottom of the screen


Note I said "compose" (lower case C) not "Compose". You were looking for a title named "Compose", but I was using the word as a descriptor. It's a box that you write a reply in. The thing is, it's the _exact same box_ that you use if you hit Reply to someone else's post, only it doesn't populate with a quoted reply. It all makes perfect sense when you get used to it.


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## gargani

EdgeDC said:


> Note I said "compose" (lower case C) not "Compose". You were looking for a title named "Compose", but I was using the word as a descriptor. It's a box that you write a reply in. The thing is, it's the _exact same box_ that you use if you hit Reply to someone else's post, only it doesn't populate with a quoted reply. It all makes perfect sense when you get used to it.


Yes, I misunderstood, I get it now. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.


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## FiiO

garlicky said:


> Thanks, I have another question. Does the btr5 have a battery level indication on the btr5 itself or just in the app?
> Any indication on the btr5 that the battery is close to running out?


Dear friend,






And there will also be indication tone when battery is low.

Best regards


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## gargani

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I recieved my btr5 a few days ago and I see the battery indicator as shown in the picture. Also Bluetooth settings on my tablet give a battery percentage read out.

I bought the btr5 to use for Bluetooth with my wired headphones. The btr5 even drives my Senn.hd 6xx easily on low gain in BT mode.I also tried the btr5 with the supplied usb c to usb c cable. Nice touch adding that cable along with the usb a to usb c cable.
So far I'm quite happy with the btr5.


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## Dust by Monday

Hi everyone. I just got the BTR5 (coming from a BTR3K) and something that’s really bugging me is that on the BTR3K, I could double click the action button to skip to next track, but the BTR5 can only do hold volume DOWN button or double click the volume down button. I don’t wanna use the volume buttons for skip track. The action button pauses the music with a single click and it should skip with a double click. 

Please FiiO, update the firmware to give me the option to do that. 

Also why is NEXT track volume down but previous track is volume up? That makes no sense.


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## Dust by Monday

gargani said:


> Yes I recieved my btr5 a few days ago and I see the battery indicator as shown in the picture. Also Bluetooth settings on my tablet give a battery percentage read out.
> 
> I bought the btr5 to use for Bluetooth with my wired headphones. The btr5 even drives my Senn.hd 6xx easily on low gain in BT mode.I also tried the btr5 with the supplied usb c to usb c cable. Nice touch adding that cable along with the usb a to usb c cable.
> So far I'm quite happy with the btr5.


What’s your volume at for 6XX on low gain? I’ve got my 660s at 28 or 30 out of 60 at high gain.


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## FiiO

Dust by Monday said:


> Hi everyone. I just got the BTR5 (coming from a BTR3K) and something that’s really bugging me is that on the BTR3K, I could double click the action button to skip to next track, but the BTR5 can only do hold volume DOWN button or double click the volume down button. I don’t wanna use the volume buttons for skip track. The action button pauses the music with a single click and it should skip with a double click.
> 
> Please FiiO, update the firmware to give me the option to do that.
> 
> Also why is NEXT track volume down but previous track is volume up? That makes no sense.


Dear friend,

Sorry double click the multifunctional button will enable the assist in the mobile phone instead.
The volume down button is more close to the buttom, so we design it to work for next track. 

Best regards


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## gargani

Dust by Monday said:


> What’s your volume at for 6XX on low gain? I’ve got my 660s at 28 or 30 out of 60 at high gain.


Vol at 42. As loud as I go, on occasion, is 46.
The volume on my tablet is at 90%.


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## Dust by Monday

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Sorry double click the multifunctional button will enable the assist in the mobile phone instead.


I'm surprised the BTR3K can skip track with the multifunction button, but the BTR5 forces you to hold or double click the volume buttons which is too bad since sometimes I wanna tap the volume fast and that results in a skip.


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## samuelawachie

So is there a sale anywhere on this? Over the last few days, I’ve read all 208 pages! It’s currently retailing for $105, but was wondering if it can be got for cheaper anywhere else? I loved my LG V10 but that died in a bootloop and was buried 7 years ago. When I saw that this used a similar DAC from the same company, it’s been in my wishlist. 
Anyone willing to part with theirs for a reduced amount is also welcome to DM me. 
I really need this somehow.


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## Dust by Monday

samuelawachie said:


> So is there a sale anywhere on this? Over the last few days, I’ve read all 208 pages! It’s currently retailing for $105, but was wondering if it can be got for cheaper anywhere else? I loved my LG V10 but that died in a bootloop and was buried 7 years ago. When I saw that this used a similar DAC from the same company, it’s been in my wishlist.
> Anyone willing to part with theirs for a reduced amount is also welcome to DM me.
> I really need this somehow.


To be honest, I can’t hear a difference between the BTR5 and the Apple lightning dongle. So there’s that. I tried switching back and forth trying as hard as I could to hear a difference in clarity or soundstage or separation and I just couldn’t make out any difference. 

It’s still a good device though and it frees my phone up for charging or just not having to be tethered to it.


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## Dust by Monday

I have a question: is the SPL calculator based on the balanced output because there’s no way I’m listening at 90+db


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## FiiO

Dust by Monday said:


> I have a question: is the SPL calculator based on the balanced output because there’s no way I’m listening at 90+db


Dear friend,

It is a calculated value according to the load and sensitivity you entered. 

Generally, the headphone could be driven if the SPL is higher than 86dB. 

Best regards


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## Dust by Monday

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> It is a calculated value according to the load and sensitivity you entered.
> 
> ...


So I guess the BTR3K can drive the HD 600 balanced at 75% volume?


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## FiiO

Dust by Monday said:


> So I guess the BTR3K can drive the HD 600 balanced at 75% volume?


Dear friend,

Due to individual preferences, you could read the professional reviews and comparisons, as well as try out by yourself. The HD600 is a high impedance headphone, so I am afraid that the BTR3K could not drive it well.

Best regards


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## Dust by Monday

FiiO said:


> Dear friend,
> 
> Due to individual preferences, you could read the professional reviews and comparisons, as well as try out by yourself. The HD600 is a high impedance headphone, so I am afraid that the BTR3K could not drive it well.
> 
> Best regards


I put in the specs of the hd 600 and the app says it will reach 85db at 75% volume. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## LoryWiv

Dust by Monday said:


> I put in the specs of the hd 600 and the app says it will reach 85db at 75% volume. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


There is a difference between loudness in dB and adequate driving power, which requires good driver control, headroom etc. I have tried mt 300 ohm ZMF Auteur from BTR5 and while it get's loud enough, it sounds nowhere near is good as when driven by my desktop amp. BTR5, however, is a champ with my IEM's!


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## Dust by Monday

LoryWiv said:


> There is a difference between loudness in dB and adequate driving power, which requires good driver control, headroom etc. I have tried mt 300 ohm ZMF Auteur from BTR5 and while it get's loud enough, it sounds nowhere near is good as when driven by my desktop amp. BTR5, however, is a champ with my IEM's!


If the iPhone 6 can run the HD 600, then why can’t a BTR3K?


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## Chris Kaoss

It obviously could drive nearly any headphone.
But you wouldn't ever explore the full potential of most higher impedance headphones with it.
The BTR5, in my example, could drive a T1.2 or my VO to listenable volume, but they doesn't sound as "weighty" as with a proper portable or desktop amp.

Without knowing how they sound the right way, it could be satisfying, thou.


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## LoryWiv

Dust by Monday said:


> If the iPhone 6 can run the HD 600, then why can’t a BTR3K?


To reiterate, it can run it in the sense there will be reasonably loud music outputting, but that is different from producing the best sound the headphone is capable of. For that you will likely need a ore powerful amp.


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## Dust by Monday

LoryWiv said:


> To reiterate, it can run it in the sense there will be reasonably loud music outputting, but that is different from producing the best sound the headphone is capable of. For that you will likely need a ore powerful amp.


I still don’t understand how an amp running at the same loudness level as an iPhone will make the headphones sound any different. I listen at a reasonably low volume anyway. My HD 660s have about the same sensitivity and volume out of my iPhone as the Apple dirty buds (EarPods).


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