# KG CFA3 headphone amp



## RudeWolf

If you frequent the DIY forum here, then there's a good chance you know about Kevin Gilmore and his contributions to the DIY design library. From Dynalo to Dynahi, to top of the line electrostatic amps like the KGSS and it's fancier cousins. Less known are his current feedback designs for dynamic headphones. There's even one for e-stats! Having built Dynalo I wasn't interested in it's bigger brother, the Dynahi, so I went for the CFA3.






What is the CFA3? It's a discrete omnivorous input stage with two CFA2 amps tacked on. This means that it can take and output BAL and SE signals without any kind of extra conversion. So, if you have a DAC that can really spread its wings with BAL outputs, but you have a SE headphone (like me), then you're in luck. This amp has one of the earlier versions of the input stage which can be built separately, but here one can use it with zero negative feedback. It can also work in super-symmetry mode, but for that I'd rather get one of the later versions of KG's input stages and build the two CFA2 for it separately. This way one can even use a tube input stage for interesting results. Maybe someday...





As you can see, I tried to do the build dual mono with separate toroids and Golden Reference clone PSU's powering their respective channels. The small PCB on the front panel is a headphone protector which does three things:

Connects the headphones a good 5 seconds after powering on, so they don't experience no DC transients when the amp turns on
Disconnects the headphones immediately after powering off, so they don't see any of the DC transients due to asymmetrical power rail discharge
Measures DC between each channels positive and negative phases and between them and ground. The CFA3 is DC coupled, so it will cheerfully amplify any DC found in faulty DAC output stages, thus cooking your headphones
Initially I was using a THAT340 monolithic bipolar transistor for the input stage, but after a while I decided to swap them out for Toshiba 2sk389/2sj109 low noise jfets. It's hard to describe the sound difference, but even with THAT's the amp was terrific. Toshibas made biasing much easier and DC drift was way less. And it seemed to sound more right.

The switch on the back is used to short each negative input to GND when SE inputs are used.





In conclusion I'm very happy with the build. The unique circuit topology makes it a curious standout, but it also sound absolutely fabulous. Previously I was using a maxed out ECP Torpedo 3 and the CFA3 seems to build upon its qualities. For one bass seems more extended and controlled and soundstage appears to be wider and less fuzzy. In comparison the T3 seems a bit mid heavy as well and maybe too gentle. If pushed the CFA3 will tear your head off with metal music, something the T3 was more reluctant to do. It doesn't seem to prefer any genre of music and is completely free of any glare often present in transistor amps.

I hope you liked the writeup and may it inspire you to build something! Feel free to ask, if you have any questions.


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## paradoxper (Jul 25, 2020)

This amp is way too good for this dolt platform.  

As you know, I admire your build which inspired mine.

All things possible through Kevin Gilmore.


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## adydula

Please post build link, I love DIY and this looks like a great project!

Alex


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## chillysalsa

Fantastic build, nice work!

It looks like you have some seriously good thermal management there. 

I wonder how it compares to the Dynahi. Have you compared to other amps?

I've compared my Dynahi to a clone of the Krell KSA-5 which is supposedly loosely based on, and I definitely feel the Dynahi is super in terms of detail and refinement.


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## RudeWolf (Aug 2, 2020)

chillysalsa said:


> Fantastic build, nice work!
> 
> It looks like you have some seriously good thermal management there.
> 
> ...



Thanks! This was basically the smallest case I could fit everything in. Quiescent current is 200mA per output stage which keeps the temps a good 10C above ambient. For the GRLV psu I could've got away with just bolting the pass transistors to the bottom plate, but hey, I got some heatsink length left, so I used that.

And yeah, the Dynahi seems to be the closest thing to this. There are some folks on the other forum who might have both the Dynahi and CFA2 built. At least one of them preferred the CFA2. For some time I pondered whether to go for the SuSy Dynahi build, but having had the Dynalo, I thought it would be more interesting to be the first to tackle the CFA3.

A really interesting option to me seems building a tube input board Kevin published a few years ago and tack two CFA2 outputs to it. You'd have to forego dual mono powering, as you'd need two GRLV's and one +100VDC PSU per channel, but the result might be even more interesting. Especially with tube rolling.


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## paradoxper

RudeWolf said:


> Thanks! This was basically the smallest case I could fit everything in. Quiescent current is 200mA per output stage which keeps the temps a good 10C above ambient. For the GRLV psu I could've got away with just bolting the pass transistors to the bottom plate, but hey, I got some heatsink length left, so I used that.
> 
> And yeah, the Dynahi seems to be the closest thing to this. There are some folks on the other forum who might have both the Dynahi and CFA2 built. At least one of them preferred the CFA2. For some time I pondered whether to go for the SuSy Dynahi build, but having had the Dynalo, I thought it would be more interesting to be the first to tackle the CFA3.
> 
> A really interesting option to me seems building a tube input board Kevin published a few years ago and tack two CFA2 outputs to it. You'd have to forego dual mono powering, as you'd need two GRLV's and one +100VDC PSU per channel, but the result might be even more interesting. Especially with tube rolling.


Stop giving more ideas!

I'm interested to hear how the SS topology sounds directly compared to SuSy Dynahi. Although I do plan on running only from CF. But, you know, who knows!


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## paradoxper (Aug 23, 2020)

The Gilmore Cult Long Lives!









Thank you, @Dukei, my man! Thanks, @kevin gilmore, the man


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## RudeWolf

Oh yeah! How is it treating you? Bias stays stable with ss/zf switching?


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## paradoxper

RudeWolf said:


> Oh yeah! How is it treating you? Bias stays stable with ss/zf switching?


I'll provide some impressions after I bring in a few more phones. The SS/ZF gave us some trouble. Haha.


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## Dukei

It ain't diy if there are no problems along the way. Luckily it got resolved, detailed explanation of the fix is posted over at headcase.
Regarding the amp, I still can't make up my mind which mode I like the most. I guess it depends on the headphones in use...


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## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> I'll provide some impressions after I bring in a few more phones. The SS/ZF gave us some trouble. Haha.



Very interested in hearing what you think of it! Especially how you think it compares to some of the others amps you've tried as of late.


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## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Very interested in hearing what you think of it! Especially how you think it compares to some of the others amps you've tried as of late.


I'll start comparisons today. Was planned with Verite and TC in-mind, however, it seems my recently purchased Verite may have been lost by UPS. We'll see.

The CFA is very, very good. Builds upon the Dynahi strengths with more, hm, finesse and less warmth perhaps.


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## RudeWolf

paradoxper said:


> I'll start comparisons today.


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## paradoxper

RudeWolf said:


>


I know. I just keep bringing in one new gear too many.

I'll get there. Eventually.


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## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> I know. I just keep bringing in one new gear too many.
> 
> I'll get there. Eventually.



Haha, lots of gear cycling, ever plan on settling down?


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## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Haha, lots of gear cycling, ever plan on settling down?


When will the boredom of Covid pass.


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## paradoxper (Sep 22, 2020)

Mastering the Planar:

The CFA curiosity was borne out of cursory drive. First starting with the little Transconductance which has served the Code-X well. Inspired by the rather mediocre Bakoon HPA**

Little documented under the CFA3, however, suffice to say, a true reference, and Kevin Gilmore's best dynamic amplifier to date.

I will focus on comparisons of the CFA v the 13R as I feel the other amplifiers I brought in underwhelmed. Those being the Riviera AFC-10, BHA-1 and Formula S amplifiers.

The Dynahi serves a bit redundant and there are enough words of commentary around its sound performance and comparisons there-in.

To start, the Bakoon AMP-13R is very diminutive and is quite impressive in its stature. Quick aside: the bottom heatsinks that serve as footers feel a bit clever — although its efficiency may remain in question. The design of the 13R is also very impressive with the single volume knob controlling set gain, volume, input control, power. Yet doesn't match the Acoustic Dimensions 41-step attenuator used in the CFA.

The 13R’s price tag of $6k does not lend itself to as much flattery.
However, it’s my money and it’s my bias.

On to the sound:
*I have had an difficulty discerning the SS/ZF in the CFA, as such, ZF only was employed*
The CFA provides very deep, powerful bass with absolute master control. Bass lines are clear in delineation, punch and extension. It really elevates the visceral quality of the Abyss to at least a step above. Mid-bass is presented in balance and again control as there is no bleed into the mids.

Mids feel rather neutral, clear, lacking some richness — not so mid centric and really a little dry.

Aside: this characteristic perhaps attributed to the Linear System v Toshiba. I may, if motivated-inclined investigate swapping the Linear for Toshiba*

The Abyss also does not serve as the sweetest sounding driver, to be clear.

Treble has beautifully detailed and extended range. I might say a little crystalline sparkle — although I might also prefer to avoid a floral language. Here, too, perhaps dry/harsh. I like this lack of warmth in trade of what I will personally regard as natural realism.

The 13R is, in contrast — struggling. Bass presence feels forced and in context I mean delineation is more blurred — softer (not bloomed.) The control is missing as it doesn’t present enough powerful control. The visceral body is simply missing by about 1 1/2 steps below.

Mids are presented with a softer touch, less voluminous, less bodied. A little centric and a little warm and relaxed. I can’t say I love this. I do not.

The treble is smooth, very smooth but again, lacks the control I seek. Extension up top is cut off and detail is a bit congested. This amplifier does not feel swift-footed as I'd say marketed. There is a very passive nature to the sound of this amplifier which I feel simply blunts what the Abyss can offer that no other can match.
If I may, the 13R feels a bit in character to the ECP 3F — to give a fair picture. A soft house-sound.

The CFA feels like the Dynahi to N. Less warmth and impresses upon more delivery. Better control of space and bass. A more lively and dynamic house-sound.

Long Live the Cult of Gilmore. Leave your politics at the door.

Up next Eddie Current 6L6 ultra-linear. And perhaps a cooked Copenhagen if I can bribe Doug of ECP Audio.


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## Ethereal Sound

Thank you for the impressions. Better bass than a Dynahi?! I'm a bit surprised you didn't like the AFC10, which I thought was a wonderful amp. The CFA-3 seems like a very impressive amplifier though based off your description, probably not the one for me. Time to set aside some pennies for an ECP amp I guess!


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## paradoxper

Better bass than the SuSy Dynahi. More bass definition, more punch. Dynahi carries a little warmth which many find pleasing though.

The AFC-10 is ok. Softer sounding even than the 13R. As a matter of preference, it simply didn't meet my criteria for good sound. Talking that nth degree.


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## Ethereal Sound

Crazy that it even has more punch. I do agree on the AFC-10 being softer sounding. For what it is, I think it is too expensive but it really has a really musical, dreamy quality to the sound.


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## paradoxper

Its sound quality is dog crap for the money. Welcome to commercial gear. 

For that directive, I have a lot of faith in Doug's designs. He can play with gain options, to give you drive for any load.


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## RudeWolf

I almost bought the BHA-1 instead of building this. Phew, I guess!

Wondering how the CFA3 will go against a top shelf tube amp.


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## paradoxper

I've yet to hear a hybrid that I felt was a great middle-ground of the two. It's one reason I've decided to pursue an EC 6L6 ultra-linear, however, discussion of the CFA/hybrid peaked some interest as well.


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## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> Its sound quality is dog crap for the money. Welcome to commercial gear.
> 
> For that directive, I have a lot of faith in Doug's designs. He can play with gain options, to give you drive for any load.



Essentially why I almost exclusively go for DIY amps. It's crazy the kind of quality you can get for far less.


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## wishbon3

Getting one of these CFAs built! Can't wait. Thanks @Dukei and @paradoxper!


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## paradoxper

Yea. Don't forget your Abyss at the door!

Your welcome though.


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## wishbon3

Just lend me some $$ and I'll have an Abyss by tomorrow.


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## Homrsimson

wishbon3 said:


> Just lend me some $$ and I'll have an Abyss by tomorrow.



I likewise have one coming with wishbon and already have the TC . Very excited, curious how I find this given I have tended to favor tube amps (granted, nothing if this caliber).


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## Dukei

The fun should commence soon


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## Homrsimson

Dukei said:


> The fun should commence soon



Exciting stuff!


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## paradoxper

I feel all left out.


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## Elysian

I am super excited about this CFA3 build  It's been a long time since anything in audio has gotten my attention.

Big thank you to @Dukei for being an amazing source of information. He's helping me through a lot of the questions I've had while reading up on amplifier design.

I am a bit curious about the difference between the Toshiba and Linear inputs re @paradoxper's comment on mids, but probably a moot point given the lack of easy access to matched Toshiba JFETs.


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## Bhk1004

This looks fantastic! Subbing in hopes that someone makes a manual... or step by step guide on how to build one of these... and a BOM...


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## paradoxper

Go look on HC for an overview. You could also send a PM for the BOM -- unsure of a step-by-step "guide" per se. @kevin gilmore, however, is more than gracious with his time and energy should you seek help.


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## Bhk1004

paradoxper said:


> Go look on HC for an overview. You could also send a PM for the BOM -- unsure of a step-by-step "guide" per se. @kevin gilmore, however, is more than gracious with his time and energy should you seek help.


Thanks! Making my way through the thread atm. Once I am done I will reach out to him and see if hes willing to help out. Thread is a bit difficult for someone like me who really has no electrical background and is used to having a manual. Shall see how it pans out!


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## K3cT

I'm late. Perhaps the CFA-3 would offer a good contrast over the Beta22 and Dynahi?


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## paradoxper

Over the Beta22, yes. Over a Dynahi. Depends on the version. I also think you should consider what design parameters of CFA vs Dynahi. For planar drive, the CFA is pretty special. 
If you're only using, say, an HD800, sure, still build the CFA with SuSy switch.


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## MASantos

I can say I have the CFA2 (single ended only) and the dynalo mini (pretty much a DIY GS-X ) and prefered the CFA2 for HD650. I haven't tried other headphones but based on reports many people prefer it over the Dyna series of amplifiers.


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## Dukei

Progress is going slowly mainly because of the slow shipping/handling in EU. GRLV and amp boards are done. Next up is to case it.


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## RudeWolf

Cool! Any of the builds using Toshiba JFETs?


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## Dukei

Will be using the Linear systems JFETs LSJ74 and LSK170.


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## paradoxper (Oct 28, 2020)

PASS vs Gilmore?

I drank both koolaid.

This will be a bit more succinct as their strengths/weakness are balanced.

To start, the Pass is a behemoth and is severe absurdity for headphone drive.
There is an apparent warmth that is inoffensive and welcomes long listens.
Bass feels effortlessly extended, lacking full punch-feel?
Nothing across the spectrum really sticks out.
The mids feel a bit more liquid without really drawing much attention in a commission of way.
The treble is the best I've heard; well extended and extremely smooth.
Vocals sound especially, uh, intoxicating. This reminds me of the DIY T2 TBH.

The CFA conversely flat out sounds more dynamic in punch and excitement.
Bass has more energy behind it making the Pass almost feel underpowered (WHAT.) Yup.
The CFA is clearly the more clean/pristine sounding amplifier with more focus on active engagement.
At times, I feel the Pass better retrieves low-level detail and other times I feel the Pass sounds smeary
compared to the CFA.

I'm perplexed by the Pass nature as it sounds both, let's say, congested (but not actually)
and effortlessly open.

I would love if Kevin could run some numbers on what the CFA can output. With gain, however,
the conversation becomes downright confusing as there are no real standards.
The CFA feels like it throws around its muscle much more readily.

I don't believe either amp will be going anywhere.

The Pass Gilmore Cult Long Lives!


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## Ethereal Sound

That pass amp is a monster. How heavy is that thing?


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## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> That pass amp is a monster. How heavy is that thing?


I believe I read around 70lbs. It unnecessarily feels so.


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## RudeWolf

Ha, the CFA3 walks over the Pass amp in portability.


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## kevin gilmore (Oct 29, 2020)

measured with the keithely 2015 high voltage thd meter and the james m king hpib software...

In Zero Feedback Mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.006% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.01db   10 hz to 3.7Mhz +0,-3db
In SuperSymmetry mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.003% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.02db  10hz to 300khz +0,-3db  with 10db of feedback


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## Ethereal Sound

kevin gilmore said:


> measured with the keithely 2015 high voltage thd meter and the james m king hpib software...
> 
> In Zero Feedback Mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.006% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.01db   10 hz to 3.7Mhz +0,-3db
> In SuperSymmetry mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.003% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.02db  10hz to 300khz +0,-3db  with 10db of feedback



Wow, that's a lot more than I expected. I have never seen it posted anywhere but is there similar data for the SuSy Dynahi?


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## kevin gilmore (Oct 29, 2020)

So the zero feedback amp gets much closer to the rail voltages than does the various dynahi designs. If you boost the power supplies to +/-30v then the output power is very similar.​​zero feedback amp generates less heat for same output power.​


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## paradoxper

Thanks, Kevin. 

That gels right along with how I hear things. Quite the powerful amplifier.


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## RudeWolf

kevin gilmore said:


> measured with the keithely 2015 high voltage thd meter and the james m king hpib software...
> 
> In Zero Feedback Mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.006% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.01db   10 hz to 3.7Mhz +0,-3db
> In SuperSymmetry mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.003% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.02db  10hz to 300khz +0,-3db  with 10db of feedback



16W in 50 Ohms is 28.28V. Where do the extra volts come if the supply is +/-24VDC?


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## kevin gilmore

balanced output.

single ended output is 40 volts peak to peak.  balanced output is twice that, 80 volts peak to peak.


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## RudeWolf

Ah, got it!


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## K3cT

paradoxper said:


> Over the Beta22, yes. Over a Dynahi. Depends on the version. I also think you should consider what design parameters of CFA vs Dynahi. For planar drive, the CFA is pretty special.
> If you're only using, say, an HD800, sure, still build the CFA with SuSy switch.



That's a good point regarding the design. An NFB, current feedback amp will certainly be something different than what I have. 

For the record, I have a slight preference for the Beta 22 over the Dynahi.


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## paradoxper

You could also look at loading the CFA into a hybrid. @Dukei and I discussed this a bit but he's busy doing a CFA run and quite frankly, I'm really rather satisfied with the CFA and Pass to feel that lit urge.

You might even consider the B24.


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## rayofsi

Out of curiosity, whats a commissioned build cost? can someone PM me? Running a SuSy Dynahi currently. CFA3 seems interesting


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## Dukei

Bumping this thread because I have some downtime while I wait for some parts to be cleared by the customs.
Have 2 custom CFA projects on my table at the moment. The larger one is a 3U case while the smaller one is 2U. Roughly the same spec as my previous builds but both are going to have some uniqueness to them, which I will reveal when they are finished.


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## RudeWolf

There better be a good reason for that 3U case!

Good job!


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## Dukei

RudeWolf said:


> There better be a good reason for that 3U case!
> 
> Good job!



It's so spacious to work with compared to a 2U, does that count?


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## paradoxper

Way to take holiday @Dukei

Let's go!


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## Dukei

paradoxper said:


> Way to take holiday @Dukei
> 
> Let's go!



Yeah it's been too long since a CFA was birthed but fun stuff coming this weekend...


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## Dukei

Here we go, this unit was done a couple of hours ago. Listening with my HD800 @210mA bias. Sounds awesome as it always does in zero feedback.


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## paradoxper (Feb 21, 2021)

Dukei said:


> Here we go, this unit was done a couple of hours ago. Listening with my HD800 @210mA bias. Sounds awesome as it always does in zero feedback.


Congrats to the new owner.

Now I see SE (yuck!) does this one have RCA's, you bad boy.


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## Dukei

I have 30-ish left of those BAL-SE switch boards I have to get rid of. See it as limited edition feature


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## paradoxper

Dukei said:


> I have 30-ish left of those BAL-SE switch boards I have to get rid of. See it as limited edition feature


I'll buy them. I'll burn them.


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## Bhk1004

What thats a big boi...


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## Ethereal Sound

@paradoxper Have you ever tried running the CFA-3 or SuSy Dynahi with a tube preamp? I think it would be pretty interesting. Tube preamp + SS amp seems to be a pretty popular set up for a lot of speakers but I don't really see it much in the headphone world (makes sense, with budget and space constraints).


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## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> @paradoxper Have you ever tried running the CFA-3 or SuSy Dynahi with a tube preamp? I think it would be pretty interesting. Tube preamp + SS amp seems to be a pretty popular set up for a lot of speakers but I don't really see it much in the headphone world (makes sense, with budget and space constraints).


I hadn't. I'd run the Pass Xs preamp but that's more of a transparency thing. I'm generally not trying to mate tubes to pivot sound signatures.

That to say, I generally favor SS over tubes, or in the case of the DIY T2, it's the first hybrid I felt didn't make concessions.

I can admit I've not heard many tube or solid-state pres in front of headamps though.


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## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> I hadn't. I'd run the Pass Xs preamp but that's more of a transparency thing. I'm generally not trying to mate tubes to pivot sound signatures.
> 
> That to say, I generally favor SS over tubes, or in the case of the DIY T2, it's the first hybrid I felt didn't make concessions.
> 
> I can admit I've not heard many tube or solid-state pres in front of headamps though.




I see. I guess I'll have to try it out and report in then!


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## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> I see. I guess I'll have to try it out and report in then!


Yes. First things first, I look forward to your CFA3.


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## dstubked

I'm contemplating having someone build either a supersymmetry Dynahi or a CFA3 to drive the Susvara. I know this is a CFA3 thread and I read the Susvara likes alot of current. I am just wondering if the CFA3 will do a better job than the SS Dynahi? It seems the Dynahi puts out more power than the CFA3 based on what I read. Then again the CFA3 is supposed to be more refined than the Dynahi. 

Any feedback welcomed!


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## paradoxper (Feb 23, 2021)

dstubked said:


> I'm contemplating having someone build either a supersymmetry Dynahi or a CFA3 to drive the Susvara. I know this is a CFA3 thread and I read the Susvara likes alot of current. I am just wondering if the CFA3 will do a better job than the SS Dynahi? It seems the Dynahi puts out more power than the CFA3 based on what I read. Then again the CFA3 is supposed to be more refined than the Dynahi.
> 
> Any feedback welcomed!


Without defining some reference of sound preferences, it's a little hard to outright advise you. I can see how the SuSy Dynahi is a good fit for some headphones more than others due to the warmth it brings (I always akin it to the GS-X but better everywhere.) Conversely I don't see a place where the Dynahi out performs the CFA3, and this is especially more apparent if we discuss specific drive for planars.

Then again, if you've never heard either, you should have both built...cus.


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## Ethereal Sound

dstubked said:


> I'm contemplating having someone build either a supersymmetry Dynahi or a CFA3 to drive the Susvara. I know this is a CFA3 thread and I read the Susvara likes alot of current. I am just wondering if the CFA3 will do a better job than the SS Dynahi? It seems the Dynahi puts out more power than the CFA3 based on what I read. Then again the CFA3 is supposed to be more refined than the Dynahi.
> 
> Any feedback welcomed!



Not shilling as I have nothing to gain from this but I will say that I've heard a fair amount of high end amps and I am of the opinion that the Dynahi (I have yet to hear the CFA3 but I trust paradoxper's ears) is probably as good as you're going to get from a headphone amp. That is, it is pretty much in the top echelon of SS amps for the Susvara and almost nothing I've heard is better. The only amplifier I can think of off the top of my head that I think is "better" is probably the trafomatic primavera (look up that price though).


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## Bhk1004

my cfa3 shipping... quite excited. that is all. ty


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## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> my cfa3 shipping... quite excited. that is all. ty


Congrats, Ben. Let us know your thoughts.


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## Bhk1004

paradoxper said:


> Congrats, Ben. Let us know your thoughts.


thanks! cant wait to test it out. Only issue is if this is as amazing as everyone says... I am going to want to get ears on with the TC and Sus... rip wallet...


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## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> thanks! cant wait to test it out. Only issue is if this is as amazing as everyone says... I am going to want to get ears on with the TC and Sus... rip wallet...


I am the TC shill. Please get ears on them.


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## alcarvalho

Ok, now that I got the TC on order, I feel like this is the logical next step? How does one commission a build of this? Or how does one get started with building it?


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## paradoxper

alcarvalho said:


> Ok, now that I got the TC on order, I feel like this is the logical next step? How does one commission a build of this? Or how does one get started with building it?


You ain't playin'.

@Dukei help this soul.


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## alcarvalho

paradoxper said:


> You ain't playin'.
> 
> @Dukei help this soul.


What can I say, you're a good preacher.


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## buzzlulu

Is this amp considered a better all round performer that the GSX MK2 - or is it solely meant to provide more power for hard to drive headphones?
I found my new GSX MK2 to be an all around improvement over my GSX Mini.  If the CFA3 provides even more performance (resolution, detail etc.) than I will definitely be interested.  If it is solely meant to provide better capability for harder to drive headphones than it would be of less interest to me.


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## paradoxper

buzzlulu said:


> Is this amp considered a better all round performer that the GSX MK2 - or is it solely meant to provide more power for hard to drive headphones?
> I found my new GSX MK2 to be an all around improvement over my GSX Mini.  If the CFA3 provides even more performance (resolution, detail etc.) than I will definitely be interested.  If it is solely meant to provide better capability for harder to drive headphones than it would be of less interest to me.


You might want to specifically cite what better all round performer means to you. GS-X always provided flexible drive i.e. IEM's. 

I'd consider the CFA3 a more nuanced, refined powerhouse compared to the Mk2.


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## Bhk1004

Um gais... halp...


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## Bhk1004

so.. listened for a little bit. its pretty amazing. i dont really have much to add to the reviews already posted. but yah mic drop im done searching for perfect SS. i have it.


----------



## alcarvalho

Bhk1004 said:


> so.. listened for a little bit. its pretty amazing. i dont really have much to add to the reviews already posted. but yah mic drop im done searching for perfect SS. i have it.


Oh man... congrats! can't wait for mine!


----------



## Dukei

@Bhk1004 You need a bigger table


----------



## paradoxper

@Dukei you are just jealous of all his desk space.


----------



## Dukei (Mar 6, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> @Dukei you are just jealous of all his desk space.


haha you are probably right. I haven't got that kind of space so I stack those puppies.


----------



## paradoxper

Dukei said:


> haha you are probably right. I haven't got that kind of space so I stack those puppies.


Haha. Time to minify these puppy monsters, then.


----------



## Bhk1004 (Mar 6, 2021)

So just a quick follow up. listened for a bit last night and figured I should share some more of my non professional broken ear thoughts.

First I had basically given up on SS amps due to 2 main reasons. Treble harshness, and lack of body/thickness to the sound vs what I was hearing using tube amps with good tubes. This always made me think, hey, you love a nice thick warm amp and tubes were my answer to what I wanted. Well then I was bored, and and wanted an SS amp for random use, and I saw the CFA3 come up. Ended up buying a Dynalo MK2 Mini, and thought oh this sounds very nice. Warm, a bit thick, but still had a bit of that treble harshness but I appreciated the sound. so I went and commissioned the CFA3. This came after I chatted with @paradoxper and @RudeWolf. Those 2 just basically planted a seed in my head that I couldnt get out and spent all my money.

The process was fantastic and after the end result I can 100% recommend to anyone that is interested.

First, the idea of a more neutral amp vs the dynalo scared me a bit, but went with it anyways. The treble, to me this is the biggest thing about this amp. It extends and is airy and sounds lovely. But there is no harshness, like my friends and I joke about headphones and amps that "stab" you on those bright bright songs. We use dua lipa as a stab measuring stick. Yes the amp will show you all that brightness, but the harshness isnt there. I dont even know how to explain it, who the hell knew treble on headphones can be loud and extended but without feeling like someone is stabbing you through the ears? For me treble is perfect, i cant really explain it. its airy controlled, extended, detailed, and not harsh. this is actually probably the most amazing part of this amp to me.

Next is the mids. I listen to the mids and im like oh thats pretty good not bad. Why is this surprising? I am coming from a 300b tube amp, which to me is arguably the "mid" king. 300b tubes have that lush romantic mid that all the fans crave and have pushed NOS tube prices into the stratosphere. for me not to feel like I was really wanting more and lacking anything is actually an amazing achievement.

Bass, i was kind of expecting, but there is a heft to the low end that is fantastic. It has great control all the way to the bottom if your headphones can handle it, and loads you with as much details as your headphones can provide. The textured bass out of the cfa3 is great, and probably the best ive heard.

I do need to do some more A B testing with my tube amp and maybe toss in the dynalo mini as well just for a reference point. But atm, the songs have weight and thickness to them, and the signature/SQ is perfect for me. Also has a bit of liquidity that I am sensing that makes it feel a little bit like a tube amp. Overall its just a really incredible amp. But hey who knows, maybe its the honeymoon phase and I will hate it by next week haha.

Oh and I also have speaker taps on my CFA3, and they are driving my Passive Aggressive Speakers (i call them wife speakers) for my computer fantastically. its a 82db sensitivity speaker with recommended 40w rms+ amp to drive them. CFA3 when cranked will make these tiny little things vibrate my desk and sound extremely full. I listen to them on my desk at around 9-10oclock on the cfa3 on low gain.

Oh and just to add, the headphones ive tried is a 4 screw HE6 and zmf verite closed.


----------



## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> So just a quick follow up. listened for a bit last night and figured I should share some more of my non professional broken ear thoughts.
> 
> First I had basically given up on SS amps due to 2 main reasons. Treble harshness, and lack of body/thickness to the sound vs what I was hearing using tube amps with good tubes. This always made me think, hey, you love a nice thick warm amp and tubes were my answer to what I wanted. Well then I was bored, and and wanted an SS amp for random use, and I saw the CFA3 come up. Ended up buying a Dynalo MK2 Mini, and thought oh this sounds very nice. Warm, a bit thick, but still had a bit of that treble harshness but I appreciated the sound. so I went and commissioned the CFA3. This came after I chatted with @paradoxper and @RudeWolf. Those 2 just basically planted a seed in my head that I couldnt get out and spent all my money.
> 
> ...


Great impressions. I been tellin' 'em. This amp is that good.

Cough cough Abyss please.


----------



## RudeWolf

Bhk1004 said:


> so I went and commissioned the CFA3. This came after I chatted with @paradoxper and @RudeWolf. Those 2 just basically planted a seed in my head that I couldnt get out and spent all my money.


Nice to see that the seed has flourished into something that you enjoy! I'm still super happy with mine. Recently finished a Susy Dynalo MK2 for a member here and while that amp is terrific, the CFA3 has an effortless sound I haven't heard with other solid state stuff. The biggest difference I guess was in the highs.


----------



## paradoxper

RudeWolf said:


> Nice to see that the seed has flourished into something that you enjoy! I'm still super happy with mine. Recently finished a Susy Dynalo MK2 for a member here and while that amp is terrific, the CFA3 has an effortless sound I haven't heard with other solid state stuff. The biggest difference I guess was in the highs.


Need that CFA3-hybrid. I would love if Kevin introduced something like the Dynamic Megatron or some other Dynamic T2. With Eddie Current closing doors, the semi interesting options are passing on. I have a Primavera on order and am feeling itchy to pursue tubes.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> Need that CFA3-hybrid. I would love if Kevin introduced something like the Dynamic Megatron or some other Dynamic T2. With Eddie Current closing doors, the semi interesting options are passing on. I have a Primavera on order and am feeling itchy to pursue tubes.



Oof very nice. Unfortunately primavera is out of my price range but it's certainly incredible. On a side note, please tell me you got black


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Oof very nice. Unfortunately primavera is out of my price range but it's certainly incredible. On a side note, please tell me you got black


We'll see if it ultimately stays. I was a bit enamored with the Pass but the CFA3 outshone. If I don't work out something more custom this might be my last amp.
I reluctantly chose black as I didn't like how cheap/plastic the other colors look.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> We'll see if it ultimately stays. I was a bit enamored with the Pass but the CFA3 outshone. If I don't work out something more custom this might be my last amp.
> I reluctantly chose black as I didn't like how cheap/plastic the other colors look.



CFA3 outshines the Pass? Crazy. Well, all things permitting, I should able to commission one soon...maybe a DAC upgrade should come first ahha. Black is the best color for the primavera unfortunately. I've seen the white and it does look very plasticy. I wish they would improve the finishing on their casing in general.


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> CFA3 outshines the Pass? Crazy. Well, all things permitting, I should able to commission one soon...maybe a DAC upgrade should come first ahha. Black is the best color for the primavera unfortunately. I've seen the white and it does look very plasticy. I wish they would improve the finishing on their casing in general.


For my tastes, yes. The reason I chose the Primavera was for that non-tube sound that display spatial information as priority with a general linear focus.
I have my opinions for what makes good sound per transformer choice, winding, power supply design, etc. I'm certainly not interested in WOO warmpoo, engineered mediocrity.

What DAC were you wanting to pair with CFA3?

You also need TC. Couldn't resist.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> For my tastes, yes. The reason I chose the Primavera was for that non-tube sound that display spatial information as priority with a general linear focus.
> I have my opinions for what makes good sound per transformer choice, winding, power supply design, etc. I'm certainly not interested in WOO warmpoo, engineered mediocrity.
> 
> What DAC were you wanting to pair with CFA3?
> ...



I do agree with you on the quality of a tube amps ability to present spacial information. I was considering going with good clean tube preamp in front of a cfa3 or susy to achieve that (was thinking the primaluna evo 4000). As for dacs, I was considering the holo may or wavelight. If I hit the lottery I'll grab myself a msb haha.

I actually enjoy warmpoo amps every now and then but certainly not enough to warrant paying some of those enormous prices.  I'll have to see about the TC. I couldn't get past the comfort but who knows, if I demo it again maybe it will win me over.


----------



## RudeWolf

paradoxper said:


> Need that CFA3-hybrid.


If you don't require balanced, then there's this -





Don't think anyone has built them. And I'm not too crazy about the PSU requirements. Two GRLV's and the +100V. At that point might as well go full monty with 4xCFA2 and two tube frontends.


----------



## kevin gilmore

a few of those were built. there is a newer version of the board somewhere.  Same problem as the T8000, lots of power supplies needed.


----------



## paradoxper

kevin gilmore said:


> a few of those were built. there is a newer version of the board somewhere.  Same problem as the T8000, lots of power supplies needed.


Have you or anyone built the balanced version of the tube hybrid? Wondering what the barriers to entry would be and if there would be a more ideal circuit to serve such as the possibility instead of a full tube design?


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> I do agree with you on the quality of a tube amps ability to present spacial information. I was considering going with good clean tube preamp in front of a cfa3 or susy to achieve that (was thinking the primaluna evo 4000). As for dacs, I was considering the holo may or wavelight. If I hit the lottery I'll grab myself a msb haha.
> 
> I actually enjoy warmpoo amps every now and then but certainly not enough to warrant paying some of those enormous prices.  I'll have to see about the TC. I couldn't get past the comfort but who knows, if I demo it again maybe it will win me over.


I still think sticking a tube pre in front of the CFA3 would be very interesting. I just wonder if you'd be capturing enough of its characteristics.


----------



## kevin gilmore

there is a balanced tube input thing with dual current mirrors driving the buffers in a zero feedback configuration. Not sure if it was ever published or not.
Will have to look later.  Working on the electrostatic portable now. 
1200vpp on batteries. More information elsewhere.


----------



## RudeWolf

kevin gilmore said:


> there is a balanced tube input thing with dual current mirrors driving the buffers in a zero feedback configuration. Not sure if it was ever published or not.
> Will have to look later.  Working on the electrostatic portable now.
> 1200vpp on batteries. More information elsewhere.


Pretty sure a balanced tube input was published. Together with the GRHV100.


----------



## Tarttett

paradoxper said:


> Haha. Time to minify these puppy monsters, then.


Hi.

Would you possibly know of how small a CFA3, and of how small a Dynahi, possibly could be made?


----------



## paradoxper

Tarttett said:


> Hi.
> 
> Would you possibly know of how small a CFA3, and of how small a Dynahi, possibly could be made?


My only reference is of the mini SuSy Dynalo. I don't believe either Dynahi or CFA have been minified.

Better to ask @kevin gilmore.


----------



## RudeWolf (Mar 18, 2021)

Tarttett said:


> Hi.
> 
> Would you possibly know of how small a CFA3, and of how small a Dynahi, possibly could be made?


Going to SMD components would let you shave at least 30-50% of area mostly by shrinking resistors. TO-92 board footprint isn't much smaller than SMD transistors and board width will be determined by heatsinked output transistors. I dunno, maybe some layouting wizard could make it flat mountable on a 2U heatsink. The problem is that many DIY'ers are afraid of SMD parts.


----------



## Tarttett

RudeWolf said:


> Going to SMD components would let you shave at least 30-50% of area mostly by shrinking resistors. TO-92 board footprint isn't much smaller than SMD transistors and board width will be determined by heatsinked output transistors. I dunno, maybe some layouting wizard could make it flat mountable on a 2U heatsink. The problem is that many DIY'ers are afraid of SMD parts.


Thank you for your suggestion for what might be possible for making those amplifiers smaller.

Why are many DIY builders afraid of SMD components?


----------



## Tarttett

@kevin gilmore

Hi.

Would you possibly already have considered what the smallest build sizes for your Dynahi, your CFA2, and your CFA3, possibly would be?


----------



## Pars

Tarttett said:


> Thank you for your suggestion for what might be possible for making those amplifiers smaller.
> 
> Why are many DIY builders afraid of SMD components?


Not necessarily afraid of them. I've built around 5 of the SS Mini Dynalos, which are pretty much all SMD. The problems with SMD include the difficulty in troubleshooting them, parts removal/changeout (depends on device footprint), problems with matching devices (resistors/transistors), etc. An amp done with all SMD will also tend to run hot. Looking at you mini dynalo   Just because the amp board is done SMD doesn't mean the heatsinking and thermal requirements will decrease.
Packages such as the QFN-20 are in my opinion dumb. Try soldering one of these to a 2 or 3oz copper board, with half the pins connected to ground. Good times.


----------



## Tarttett

Pars said:


> Not necessarily afraid of them. I've built around 5 of the SS Mini Dynalos, which are pretty much all SMD. The problems with SMD include the difficulty in troubleshooting them, parts removal/changeout (depends on device footprint), problems with matching devices (resistors/transistors), etc. An amp done with all SMD will also tend to run hot. Looking at you mini dynalo   Just because the amp board is done SMD doesn't mean the heatsinking and thermal requirements will decrease.
> Packages such as the QFN-20 are in my opinion dumb. Try soldering one of these to a 2 or 3oz copper board, with half the pins connected to ground. Good times.


Thank you for explaining those difficulties, that utilising SMDs provide.

Are there advantages to utilising SMDs, besides the smaller size of the piece of equipment that would be possible to be made from utilising them?


----------



## Benny-x

wishbon3 said:


> Getting one of these CFAs built! Can't wait. Thanks @Dukei and @paradoxper!


It's a few months back, but why did you sell your custom CFA3?

I saw from your sig that you've got the TCs now, that pairing is supposed to be one of the best. Did your move to tubes to get nicer mids or something?


----------



## Benny-x

Dukei said:


> Bumping this thread because I have some downtime while I wait for some parts to be cleared by the customs.
> Have 2 custom CFA projects on my table at the moment. The larger one is a 3U case while the smaller one is 2U. Roughly the same spec as my previous builds but both are going to have some uniqueness to them, which I will reveal when they are finished.


What were the "uniqueness to them" from both of these builds? I never saw that across the remainder of the thread.


----------



## Bhk1004

Benny-x said:


> What were the "uniqueness to them" from both of these builds? I never saw that across the remainder of the thread.


The 3u build had speaker taps, and switch to go between speaker/headphone.


----------



## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> The 3u build had speaker taps, and switch to go between speaker/headphone.


Did you or @Dukei expand if you increased the bias or anything else perhaps different?


----------



## Bhk1004

paradoxper said:


> Did you or @Dukei expand if you increased the bias or anything else perhaps different?


I don't think he did? I personally have no idea. I just said make me pretty things that make nice sounds and send to me. So details are lost. Forgot to say small, and now it's pretty and big. Hopefully he can fill in the details.


----------



## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> I don't think he did? I personally have no idea. I just said make me pretty things that make nice sounds and send to me. So details are lost. Forgot to say small, and now it's pretty and big. Hopefully he can fill in the details.


Haha. I love how you forgot to say make it small and now you have the largest build.

I'll wait to hear @Dukei respond.

The beauty of DIY is any ****ing way you want it.


----------



## RudeWolf

paradoxper said:


> The beauty of DIY is any ****ing way you want it.


Sometimes it also ends up being whatever it wants to be.


----------



## Dukei

Bias should be somewhere around 230-220mA. Other than the speaker function no difference between previous builds. Oh yeah, different attenuator but that's a very small difference. I agree it's big but it still fits on your desk @Bhk1004. 😄


----------



## johnwillmclean

Some CFA2 love...



IMG_5859 (1)



IMG_5858



IMG_5856



IMG_5867


----------



## 13candles

johnwillmclean said:


> Some CFA2 love...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow !!! What a clean build !!! 
Both internally and externally this is just really spectacular John !!! Kudos ! 

This is the perfect example of less being more ! 

How does it sound with your HD800s? Please leave impressions!


----------



## buzzlulu

Gorgeous!!
Anyone doing commissioned builds on these - in the States?


----------



## paradoxper

johnwillmclean said:


> Some CFA2 love...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great build @johnwillmclean. Your builds have always aesthetically influenced mine from the HV to the T2. Thanks.


----------



## johnwillmclean

Thanks guys!

For some context before the one liner sound impression below, the GRLVs are set up for +/-30v, when I bench tested everything I settled for 180mA current which got quite hot, now with everything cased up months later it’s only just warm and the current has dropped to around ~140mA, so I’m dialling it all up to 200mA, the ambient temp now is a lot colder so that must be what's happening.

So impressions at ~140mA sounded the best I’ve exprienceced with HD800s... I don’t know what 200mA will get me....


----------



## Dukei

johnwillmclean said:


> Some CFA2 love...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's one way to do your first post. Superclean! How big are those transformers, 120VA each?


----------



## johnwillmclean

thanks!

They’re 100VA each, meant to include these shots, base and rear sides:



IMG_587d6



IMG_5877


----------



## paradoxper

johnwillmclean said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> For some context before the one liner sound impression below, the GRLVs are set up for +/-30v, when I bench tested everything I settled for 180mA current which got quite hot, now with everything cased up months later it’s only just warm and the current has dropped to around ~140mA, so I’m dialling it all up to 200mA, the ambient temp now is a lot colder so that must be what's happening.
> 
> So impressions at ~140mA sounded the best I’ve exprienceced with HD800s... I don’t know what 200mA will get me....


Throw a planar into the mix and let us know what you think.


----------



## Benny-x

What's the difference between that balanced, dual mono CFA2 vs. the CFA3?


----------



## RudeWolf

The quad CFA2 ensemble will only take and output BAL signal. The CFA3 has a completely different input stage and it can be built to use no negative feedback.


----------



## Benny-x

Ok, I reread your opening post. So the CFA3 is a special input stage (ZNF or SuSy) + CFA2 amplification (gain?) stage + GRLV PSU ?

Whereas the CFA2 above is CFA2 amplification stage + GRLV PSU?

Meaning the big (only?) difference is the input stage? And specifically how it can do built in conversion from SE<->BAL with the inputs and the outputs?

I'm not too familiar with the sonic differences of the feedback style, but earlier in this thread other owners reported not much difference.

I'm just trying to get a handle on what's going on.


----------



## RudeWolf

Benny-x said:


> So the CFA3 is a special input stage (ZNF or SuSy) + CFA2 amplification (gain?) stage + GRLV PSU ?


Yes, more or less. CFA3 has a bit stripped down CFA modules, compared to the CFA2.



Benny-x said:


> Meaning the big (only?) difference is the input stage? And specifically how it can do built in conversion from SE<->BAL with the inputs and the outputs?


Pretty much. If you only want SE, I'd prolly go with 2xCFA2. Want only BAL? 4xCFA2 is a legit choice. Want SE/BAL natively and don't need ZF? Get one of the input stages and hook 2xCFA2 per channel.


----------



## Benny-x

RudeWolf said:


> Yes, more or less. CFA3 has a bit stripped down CFA modules, compared to the CFA2.


Do you know anywhere that the "bit stripped down" is explained? I'd be aiming for the best sonics via balanced inputs -> balanced outputs. My DAC is best balanced and I've converted most of my headphones to balanced. 

The ZNF vs. SuSy input option is interesting, but it's not anything I know about.


----------



## Pars

The output stage of the CFA3 doesn't really look stripped down from the CFA2 to me, but I haven't compared them closely.

On the CFA3 that I worked on, I couldn't tell much if any difference between the SS vs. ZF modes either.


----------



## tunes

Bhk1004 said:


> So just a quick follow up. listened for a bit last night and figured I should share some more of my non professional broken ear thoughts.
> 
> First I had basically given up on SS amps due to 2 main reasons. Treble harshness, and lack of body/thickness to the sound vs what I was hearing using tube amps with good tubes. This always made me think, hey, you love a nice thick warm amp and tubes were my answer to what I wanted. Well then I was bored, and and wanted an SS amp for random use, and I saw the CFA3 come up. Ended up buying a Dynalo MK2 Mini, and thought oh this sounds very nice. Warm, a bit thick, but still had a bit of that treble harshness but I appreciated the sound. so I went and commissioned the CFA3. This came after I chatted with @paradoxper and @RudeWolf. Those 2 just basically planted a seed in my head that I couldnt get out and spent all my money.
> 
> ...


How do you like the ZMF Verite closed and have you compared it with the likes of Abyss TC, Susvara and SR1a?


----------



## paradoxper

Seems the third wave of CFA interest is crashing in. Sorry Miroslav. Thanks Kevin.


----------



## Dukei

paradoxper said:


> Seems the third wave of CFA interest is crashing in. Sorry Miroslav. Thanks Kevin.


Haha, swamped this month with the tube input exploration and an Uberamp-RAAL build. Might start a separate thread for that one.


----------



## tunes

Dukei said:


> Haha, swamped this month with the tube input exploration and an Uberamp-RAAL build. Might start a separate thread for that one.


Wonder how this amp compares to the SparkoS Labs Aries


----------



## Dukei

Have no idea as I haven't listened to that one but I would imagine that there would be a gap in sound quality between them.


----------



## Drakkard

Read the thread, soo... Who’s offering cfa3 build?


----------



## paradoxper

tunes said:


> Wonder how this amp compares to the SparkoS Labs Aries


Maybe I'll buy one. I know the CFA will embarrass the Aries.


----------



## Tarttett

Drakkard said:


> Read the thread, soo... Who’s offering cfa3 build?


Hi.

A sale listing, for a CFA3 unit, previously had been posted within this forum.

Here is a link for that listing: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cfa-3-current-feedback-headphone-amp.6634.


----------



## Drakkard

Tarttett said:


> Hi.
> 
> A sale listing, for a CFA3 unit, previously had been posted within this forum.
> 
> Here is a link for that listing: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cfa-3-current-feedback-headphone-amp.6634.


Oh, thanks! Somehow missed it. I through i searched all classifieds here.


----------



## Tarttett

Drakkard said:


> Oh, thanks! Somehow missed it. I through i searched all classifieds here.


You are welcome.

Had you decided that you would purchase that unit?


----------



## Drakkard

Highly inclined to, but checking my finances. It is slightly over what I hoped for


----------



## grayw

Hi All,

Wow - some impressive builds on here

A few questions for you all...

(1) I'm new to DIY audio - is the CFA3 an unrealistic build for me?  
(2) Is there any point in building a Dynalo if I eventually end up building the CFA3? (will it sit idle and not get any love next to the CFA?)
(3) As I'm keen to learn / build myself... would any of you be open to helping me build by correspondence (for a fee of course!  )

Cheers!


----------



## grayw

RudeWolf said:


> Going to SMD components would let you shave at least 30-50% of area mostly by shrinking resistors. TO-92 board footprint isn't much smaller than SMD transistors and board width will be determined by heatsinked output transistors. I dunno, maybe some layouting wizard could make it flat mountable on a 2U heatsink. The problem is that many DIY'ers are afraid of SMD parts.





Tarttett said:


> Thank you for your suggestion for what might be possible for making those amplifiers smaller.
> 
> Why are many DIY builders afraid of SMD components?



Re an SMD version of the CFA3 - pretty sure I saw @Kerry on Head-case post pics of an SMD prototype on there..


----------



## paradoxper

grayw said:


> Re an SMD version of the CFA3 - pretty sure I saw @Kerry on Head-case post pics of an SMD prototype on there..


Did he post it in the Dynalo thread as I don't recall this post in the ANFSCD thread.


----------



## rayofsi

paradoxper said:


> Did he post it in the Dynalo thread as I don't recall this post in the ANFSCD thread.


It's in that thread. He posted the smd boards. Can't wait to get my Kerry CFA3. One of a handful that have asked him to build them hah


----------



## grayw

paradoxper said:


> Did he post it in the Dynalo thread as I don't recall this post in the ANFSCD thread.


Indeed it's on the ANFSCD thread - second last page I think... A pic of a long blue PCB


----------



## paradoxper

grayw said:


> Indeed it's on the ANFSCD thread - second last page I think... A pic of a long blue PCB


Aha! Very cool. I wonder if the specs will remain the same.


----------



## drc73rp (Jul 6, 2021)

Hope Dukei doesn't mind me sharing it here but we're currently doing an SMD build of the CFA3 that lets us use a shorter and narrower case (the 400mm depth was just too big!). It's a 3U high case but the best part is it allows us to flat lay the amp boards on the side heatsinks for a real amp-like look inside. With this there's so much space left inside it gives you a lot of upgrade options like going dual torroid, relay type attenuator, possibly even a dac board if you fancy that. The overall compactness of the amp is a big deal given they'll most likely end up on a desktop for most users and is one of the reasons I'm moving away from using speaker amps for my TC without losing the power.


----------



## Tarttett

grayw said:


> Re an SMD version of the CFA3 - pretty sure I saw @Kerry on Head-case post pics of an SMD prototype on there..





AnaKinDV8 said:


> Hope Dukei doesn't mind me sharing it here but we're currently doing an SMD build of the CFA3 that lets us use a shorter and narrower case (the 400mm depth was just too big!). It's a 3U high case but the best part is it allows us to flat lay the amp boards on the side heatsinks for a real amp-like look inside. With this there's so much space left inside it gives you a lot of upgrade options like going dual torroid, relay type attenuator, possibly even a dac board if you fancy that. The overall compactness of the amp is a big deal given they'll most likely end up on a desktop for most users and is one of the reasons I'm moving away from using speaker amps for my TC without losing the power.


Thank you, for sharing that information.

I previously had been waiting, to know of an update for that SMD version for that CFA3, since I previously had discovered that post, within that forum.

I am happy to know that there had been more progress for that SMD version for that CFA3.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 20, 2021)

So...it has finally come down to this. I need a daily driver amp... My WA33 EE JPS gets so hot it cooks my office and I also don't want to put so many useless "non-listening" hours on the tubes running them 8+ hrs a day. I'm looking for maximum versatility that can drive at least two demanding speakers, the Abyss TCs, and the Raal SR1as (not at the same time).

I just sent @Dukei a PM to see if he could notionally build what I am looking for and to get a rough cost estimate. However, given my use case, do you gents think the CFA3/custom route would be the best way to go over something like a Moon 600i V2. Can the CFA3 or 600i V2 actually compete with the WA33 EE's level of sound quality?


----------



## Ethereal Sound

I've tried the SuSy Dynahi (to which the CFA3 is supposedly on par, if not better) and I've tried the WA33 JPS edition (I haven't tried the EE). I think they are comparable but they do present sound differently.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 20, 2021)

Ethereal Sound said:


> I've tried the SuSy Dynahi (to which the CFA3 is supposedly on par, if not better) and I've tried the WA33 JPS edition (I haven't tried the EE). I think they are comparable but they do present sound differently.


Thanks for the feedback! Would you so kind as to expand on how they present differently and what the main characteristics are? I'm quite interested in learning what I'm getting myself into before actually getting myself into it


----------



## Ethereal Sound

littlej0e said:


> Thanks for the feedback! Would you so kind as to expand on how they present differently and what the main characteristics are? I'm quite interested in learning what I'm getting myself into before actually getting myself into it



So keep in mind I listened to the WA33 on the stock tubes. Here are some of the notable differences that I remember.

WA33:

Better Z-axis imaging, a bit more depth (what you'd expect from a tube amp vs SS)
Slight grain to sound compared to none on the Dynahi
More laid back and relaxed sounding
On the warmer side though not to the point where you lose out on any details

Dynahi:

Faster sounding
Wider soundstage
Tighter and Harder bass with more slam
More intense and "in your face"
Blacker background


----------



## Roasty

hey guys.. @littlej0e pointed me to this thread (thanks!)

will the cfa3 be overkill for the Utopia?


----------



## Bhk1004

Roasty said:


> hey guys.. @littlej0e pointed me to this thread (thanks!)
> 
> will the cfa3 be overkill for the Utopia?


Probably too noisy


----------



## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> Probably too noisy


Not ideal pairing signature wise.


----------



## driftingbunnies

paradoxper said:


> Maybe I'll buy one. I know the CFA will embarrass the Aries.



This would really interest me


----------



## buzzlulu

People are  speculating about the Utopias performance with this amp. Has anyone actually heard the pairing?  Curious to know why several think it will not be a good pairing.

I am happy with all things KG (I have a Carbon, GSX Mini, GSX MK2 and am waiting for my commissioned T2 to be finished). I am now starting to think about a final end game (or semi end game) amp for my Utopias.  The GSX MK2 does well however I am curious as to the next step.


----------



## paradoxper

buzzlulu said:


> People are  speculating about the Utopias performance with this amp. Has anyone actually heard the pairing?  Curious to know why several think it will not be a good pairing.
> 
> I am happy with all things KG (I have a Carbon, GSX Mini, GSX MK2 and am waiting for my commissioned T2 to be finished). I am now starting to think about a final end game (or semi end game) amp for my Utopias.  The GSX MK2 does well however I am curious as to the next step.


The impedance makes it a tricky pairing. I've enjoyed the Utopia for what it is out of the DSHA-3F the most. I've still yet to hear its strength truly exploited that includes out of a WA33 which is mushy and does Utopia favors.

Why I feel the CFA3 is not a Utopian match? The CFA3 is too forward and transparent. I feel the Utopia has a very big timbre issue which is only exacerbated by a very real lack of warmth. This, too, gleamed from my past pairing of SuSy Dynahi with Utopia.

If you aren't starting with the CFA3 and a TC, you are doing it wrong. 

But, I, too, thought the CFA3 would not be a good match to drive the SR1a, and some crazy friends are proving me wrong. Ha.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> But, I, too, thought the CFA3 would not be a good match to drive the SR1a, and some crazy friends are proving me wrong. Ha


Now this sounds very encouraging indeed 😁


----------



## Homrsimson

paradoxper said:


> The impedance makes it a tricky pairing. I've enjoyed the Utopia for what it is out of the DSHA-3F the most. I've still yet to hear its strength truly exploited that includes out of a WA33 which is mushy and does Utopia favors.
> 
> Why I feel the CFA3 is not a Utopian match? The CFA3 is too forward and transparent. I feel the Utopia has a very big timbre issue which is only exacerbated by a very real lack of warmth. This, too, gleamed from my past pairing of SuSy Dynahi with Utopia.
> 
> ...



I have a dukei build and it’s sublime with the TC. I could not get the utopia to work without a background buzz so not an option if that’s your HP. It’s fantastic for sennheiser offerings too.


----------



## K3cT

paradoxper said:


> The impedance makes it a tricky pairing. I've enjoyed the Utopia for what it is out of the DSHA-3F the most. I've still yet to hear its strength truly exploited that includes out of a WA33 which is mushy and does Utopia favors.
> 
> Why I feel the CFA3 is not a Utopian match? The CFA3 is too forward and transparent. I feel the Utopia has a very big timbre issue which is only exacerbated by a very real lack of warmth. This, too, gleamed from my past pairing of SuSy Dynahi with Utopia.
> 
> ...



Interesting mention of the 3F, have you compared it with the GS-X MK2 before?


----------



## Drakkard

paradoxper said:


> But, I, too, thought the CFA3 would not be a good match to drive the SR1a, and some crazy friends are proving me wrong. Ha.


CFA is capable to drive SR1a? Wow


----------



## mammal

Drakkard said:


> CFA is capable to drive SR1a? Wow


A builder I have been talking to, told me that CFA3 outputs around 35W into 4R


----------



## paradoxper

K3cT said:


> Interesting mention of the 3F, have you compared it with the GS-X MK2 before?


I've heard the GS-X incarnations throughout the years. And I've always felt the Dynahi held the upper-hand.

I also feel the 3F is only a dynamic amplifier. It does not drive planars well. The planned 4F should be a better, more encompassing representation.


Drakkard said:


> CFA is capable to drive SR1a? Wow


I say doubtfully well. Convenience has a price or concession. Use the uberamp or raalstar or other direct-drive.

However, I'll put it to test for reference. My LCD-R also arrives today which I will try with CFA3.


----------



## Bhk1004

Will you make a box or custom cable? Wonder how "happy" the cfa3 will be if u connect it direct with a 2ohm load. The sr1a box simulates a 6 ohm load correct?


----------



## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> Will you make a box or custom cable? Wonder how "happy" the cfa3 will be if u connect it direct with a 2ohm load. The sr1a box simulates a 6 ohm load correct?


No extras. Just use a adapter for the cable. I did ask Kevin about designing a different interface -- under what context that may change, I'm unsure. 

The initial numbers surmised with the 8-4ohm load with respected RAAL Interface(s) versions were a little off. I also asked Kevin about these and understanding the parts values i.e. power supply rails and output limits, with no protection oversight, these lower ohm loads would only make for poor performance. Safely.


----------



## drc73rp (Jul 27, 2021)

I've given up on the pursuit of the one amp to drive all given the different hp sound characteristics and sensitivity and impedance etc., I'm more inclined now to have one set of headphones which is generally good for most music types (TC) and then have the one proper amp to drive it best (hopefully the CFA3). If out of boredom or for convenience I use my dynamic driver hps, I still have my 2 channel Beta 22 and possibly a tube amp later on.


----------



## ken6217

deleted


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> deleted


Boooo!


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Boooo!


LOL. I was replying to your PM, and it was on here. I then realized and deleted.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> LOL. I was replying to your PM, and it was on here. I then realized and deleted.


We are everywhere. Ha.


----------



## drc73rp

Thought I'd wake this board up. Something's cookin' in chef Dukei's kitchen...








This is a 2U case with only 300mm depth and it fits everything (I hope ) that makes up a balanced CFA3 amp. Wait till you get a load of what's inside.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 1, 2021)

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Thought I'd wake this board up. Something's cookin' in chef Dukei's kitchen...
> 
> 
> 
> This is a 2U case with only 300mm depth and it fits everything (I hope ) that makes up a balanced CFA3 amp. Wait till you get a load of what's inside.


Looks great, Edric. Glad to see Miroslav is keeping busy.


----------



## Bhk1004

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Thought I'd wake this board up. Something's cookin' in chef Dukei's kitchen...
> 
> 
> 
> This is a 2U case with only 300mm depth and it fits everything (I hope ) that makes up a balanced CFA3 amp. Wait till you get a load of what's inside.


That looks great! cant wait to hear your impressions and see it all together.


----------



## decur

paradoxper said:


> Looks great, Edric. Glad to see Miroslav is keeping busy.


I just ordered an all black cfa3 from miroslav today
i went with a tkd motorized remote volume control,and upgraded parts.
went with some toshiba output resistors to warm it up a little….


----------



## vkenz

so where do you order this?


----------



## decur

dukei is building mine


----------



## vkenz

can you share the photo?


----------



## decur

Just ordered today,no photos yet,try pm’ing dukei


----------



## paradoxper

decur said:


> I just ordered an all black cfa3 from miroslav today
> i went with a tkd motorized remote volume control,and upgraded parts.
> went with some toshiba output resistors to warm it up a little….


Good man.

More and more.


----------



## Failed Engineer (Sep 16, 2021)

Is anyone making a miniaturized version of this?  I'm vain, or you could say my wife is.  I'm allowed to buy whatever I want as long as it doesn't offend her decor sensibilities and Doug's amps are usually the only ones she approves (mostly one box, small-ish, tube-less, understated, and elegantly dressed in wood).  But I want an planar amp for Rognir and Snorry NM-1...I'm hoping to avoid having to buy the GS-X mini, which would pass the purchasing department.


----------



## paradoxper

Failed Engineer said:


> Is anyone making a miniaturized version of this?  I'm vain, or you could say my wife is.  I'm allowed to buy whatever I want as long as it doesn't offend her decor sensibilities and Doug's amps are usually the only ones she approves (mostly one box, small-ish, tube-less, understated, and elegantly dressed in wood).  But I want an planar amp for Rognir and Snorry NM-1...I'm hoping to avoid having to buy the GS-X mini, which would pass the purchasing department.


I don't think SMD versions have surfaced yet.

You could pursue the CFA2. A little more manageable sizing and perhaps dress it up more WAF appropriate. 

Rognir isn't difficult to drive and was fantastic with CFA3, I'd surmise a very nice match with CFA2.


----------



## Failed Engineer

Rognir is sublime from the 3F as like you say it isn't particularly hard to drive.  I suppose maybe it can sound better but I wouldn't be too inclined to find a new amp just for it.  The NM-1 OTOH I feel I may be leaving some meat on the bone via the 3F even though it still does sound excellent.  I'm thinking maybe a Copenhagen-S but my wallet doesn't want to go there yet.


----------



## paradoxper

Failed Engineer said:


> Rognir is sublime from the 3F as like you say it isn't particularly hard to drive.  I suppose maybe it can sound better but I wouldn't be too inclined to find a new amp just for it.  The NM-1 OTOH I feel I may be leaving some meat on the bone via the 3F even though it still does sound excellent.  I'm thinking maybe a Copenhagen-S but my wallet doesn't want to go there yet.


Well, Doug recommended the DSHA4F for the Abyss, but I would agree general character (presumed 3F >4F) unchanged, with just power opened a little more would be too soft, though I haven't heard the NM-1. The Copenhagen is proposed to be more heavily 3rd harmonic so may provide a more dynamic character.

Not sure how miniature you'll get any of these.


----------



## normie610

Posted this on Susvara thread, but it definitely belongs here. Still on its way to me, can’t wait to get it. Thanks @Dukei !! I believe this is identical with @littlej0e ’s CFA3.


----------



## Bhk1004

Why is everyone stealing my speaker taps! Haha. Congrats she looks fantastic! Definitely let us know what you think when you get it!


----------



## normie610

Bhk1004 said:


> Why is everyone stealing my speaker taps! Haha. Congrats she looks fantastic! Definitely let us know what you think when you get it!


Hahaha definitely inspired by yours 😁 Thanks, yes will report back once I get it


----------



## Bhk1004

normie610 said:


> Hahaha definitely inspired by yours 😁 Thanks, yes will report back once I get it


I'm really happy more people are getting it. It's fantastic for near field or running efficient speakers. Really makes it much more flexible for all around usage.


----------



## genefruit

Bhk1004 said:


> Why is everyone stealing my speaker taps! Haha. Congrats she looks fantastic! Definitely let us know what you think when you get it!


Guilty here as well for stealing the speaker taps.  Seems like a flexible option to allow for an energizer or a Raal interface or, I guess, loudspeakers.


----------



## normie610

Bhk1004 said:


> I'm really happy more people are getting it. It's fantastic for near field or running efficient speakers. Really makes it much more flexible for all around usage.





genefruit said:


> Guilty here as well for stealing the speaker taps.  Seems like a flexible option to allow for an energizer or a Raal interface or, I guess, loudspeakers.



Yes, I’m actually planning to have CFA3 drive SR1a as well, that’s why I opted for the speaker taps.


----------



## Dukei

normie610 said:


> I believe this is identical with @littlej0e ’s CFA3.


littlej0e wanted to be different than the rest of y'all . Pics may surface soon.


----------



## normie610

Dukei said:


> littlej0e wanted to be different than the rest of y'all . Pics may surface soon.


Ah he wanted a bit of a twist 😁


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 18, 2021)

More and more!

Y'all deserve it. CFA3 deserves it.


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> Ah he wanted a bit of a twist 😁


Let's just say I was looking for best performance humanly possible with a dash of custom aesthetics. I'll leave it there until Dukei decides to do the big reveal


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> Posted this on Susvara thread, but it definitely belongs here. Still on its way to me, can’t wait to get it. Thanks @Dukei !! I believe this is identical with @littlej0e ’s CFA3.


Congrats! This is absolutely _*gorgeous! *_Let me (and everyone else) know how it sounds! I'm quite excited to hear your impressions...


----------



## decur

normie610 said:


> Posted this on Susvara thread, but it definitely belongs here. Still on its way to me, can’t wait to get it. Thanks @Dukei !! I believe this is identical with @littlej0e ’s CFA3.


Mine should look the same,minus the speaker taps
parts are on order
im glad dukei was able to find a motorized remote volume control small eneough to fit inside the case.


----------



## decur

Im curious which dac’s you guys are using with your cfa3’s out there,synergy?


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> Let's just say I was looking for best performance humanly possible with a dash of custom aesthetics. I'll leave it there until Dukei decides to do the big reveal


Dang, I’m really curious now on how it will look


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> Congrats! This is absolutely _*gorgeous! *_Let me (and everyone else) know how it sounds! I'm quite excited to hear your impressions...


Too bad the TC is still a few weeks away. I was really looking forward to hear it with CFA3, but for now Susvara & SR1a will do.


----------



## Bhk1004

decur said:


> Im curious which dac’s you guys are using with your cfa3’s out there,synergy?


I've been using ygg a2 for awhile and recently swapped to the audiobyte stack. Both very good but very different.


----------



## decur

Bhk1004 said:


> I've been using ygg a2 for awhile and recently swapped to the audiobyte stack. Both very good but very different.


I have 2 dacs i use, XI audio sagra dac and totaldac d1 direct
i wonder if anyone has tried holo may with cfa3


----------



## Benny-x

Bhk1004 said:


> I've been using ygg a2 for awhile and recently swapped to the audiobyte stack. Both very good but very different.


Can you share how you're feeling about the Hydra stack? And which parts of the Hydra stack you have, because there were supposed to be a couple different configurations. I have always been very interested in it since I'm a Rockna fan.



decur said:


> I have 2 dacs i use, XI audio sagra dac and totaldac d1 direct
> i wonder if anyone has tried holo may with cfa3


I haven't heard many people with the Sagra that also have a good system and a great other DAC, can you share any comments on the Sagra and D1 Direct, and on what the CFA3 brings to the game that you weren't getting some other way?


----------



## decur

Benny-x said:


> Can you share how you're feeling about the Hydra stack? And which parts of the Hydra stack you have, because there were supposed to be a couple different configurations. I have always been very interested in it since I'm a Rockna fan.
> 
> 
> I haven't heard many people with the Sagra that also have a good system and a great other DAC, can you share any comments on the Sagra and D1 Direct, and on what the CFA3 brings to the game that you weren't getting some other way?


So,lets start with the cfa3, it was a toss up between flux audio volot and cfa3.
in my mind,it came down to the reputation of kevin gilmore as a designer and dukei as the builder. 
years ago,i had a cavalli amp burn up,on me,and a major issue with a singlepower amp.
there was an issue with a fellow headfier on a flux volot that he had recieved,and i do not know enough about flux labs to feel comfortable with their product.
all this being said, i currently have a pathos inpol ear hybrid amp that i use with my susvara’s & abyss 1266tc.
i really like this amp ALOT,wonderfull mids,very fast amp,hybrid tube/ solid state-all around great amp.
  Well,as we all know,no amp is perfect. What im missing from my pathos,especially on my abyss tc,is a vise like grip on its driver,
that only a high current solid state amp can deliver. Im looking to rock out with my 1266tc,and i want to feel the tight grip bass slam,that i beleave
the cfa3 will deliver.
the inpol ear has nice bass,and solid effort at bridging the gap between solid state and tubes,but in the end,does fall a little short.
     Ok,my dacs,as you can see,i am a r2r ladder dac fan.i like my music to be organic,lively,and sound like a great turntable.
the problem i have with most delta sigma dacs,is that they generally sound homogenized,and filtered out,and tend to sound artificial to my ears.
like there is a glass sheen to the sound.
the XI sagra is a great value dac,to my ears,very neutral,musical,analog sounding,very well balanced,dead black back ground,large soundstage,but not huge in this department. Where the totaldac d1 direct pulls ahead,is in its midrange.it has all of the sagra,but,
the d1 direct will bring tears to your eyes,it brings emotion to the music,unlike any dac that i have heard.
its soundstage is also larger….
hope this helps..


----------



## ken6217

decur said:


> So,lets start with the cfa3, it was a toss up between flux audio volot and cfa3.
> in my mind,it came down to the reputation of kevin gilmore as a designer and dukei as the builder.
> years ago,i had a cavalli amp burn up,on me,and a major issue with a singlepower amp.
> there was an issue with a fellow headfier on a flux volot that he had recieved,and i do not know enough about flux labs to feel comfortable with their product.
> ...


Which level d1 do you have?


----------



## Bhk1004

Benny-x said:


> Can you share how you're feeling about the Hydra stack? And which parts of the Hydra stack you have, because there were supposed to be a couple different configurations. I have always been very interested in it since I'm a Rockna fan.
> 
> 
> I haven't heard many people with the Sagra that also have a good system and a great other DAC, can you share any comments on the Sagra and D1 Direct, and on what the CFA3 brings to the game that you weren't getting some other way?


Currently I have the Hydra Zap + Vox. The hub hasnt been released to customer hands yet, I believe dealers are still awaiting shipment from Audiobyte. 

Sonic wise based on my listening for the past few weeks. 
The ygg a2 has a "thicker" sound with the hydra coming in sounding leaner. hydra also has a bit "blacker" of a background. 
The hydra stack out resolves the ygg a2. 
The ygg a2 is a bit more romantic sounding? also very easy to listen to, the hydra has a little bit more of an analytical sound but it is not harsh. 
The stage is probably the biggest difference between these 2 dacs for me. The hydra is slightly wider with a significantly deeper stage. So this allows more depth perception of the stage while listening to music, and at times almost feels like the placement is completely different. So things that sounded sometimes almost next to each other in the ygg a2 now sounds like its coming from a different place because its pushed further back or a little bit closer. This creates a better separation of instruments and sounds. This is all a bit more noticeable on speakers vs headphones. Also with the deeper stage of the Hydra, the vocals are a tiny step more forward, and the instruments that are behind are a step further behind, or it could be just a the perception due to the slightly forward vocals. 
Also just a note, the App remote on the Hydra is basically useless so far for me. I hope that it will eventually become more useable. Also the 3 different sound signature firmwares havent been released yet, currently there is only 1. 

Still love my ygg a2, and would recommend it to anyone. The differences I guess are to be expected with Rockna's reputations, and the almost 2x price difference.


----------



## decur

ken6217 said:


> Which level d1 do you have?


As far as i know,there is only 1 level totaldac d1 direct.
i purchased mine from vincent early 2020, there are add ons like streamer option and power supply.
I ordered the “live” upgraded power supply


----------



## ken6217

I’ll have to check but I’m pretty sure when I looked at the website a while ago there was more than one level. Is yours tubed base?


----------



## decur

ken6217 said:


> I’ll have to check but I’m pretty sure when I looked at the website a while ago there was more than one level. Is yours tubed base?


No, the tube version is d1-tube- mk2
I have heard this version,many times at different audio shows. It is not my cup of tea…
It is too rich sounding,like heavy maple syrup for me.
I like my dacs to be balanced and neutral sounding


----------



## ken6217

decur said:


> No, the tube version is d1-tube- mk2
> I have heard this version,many times at different audio shows. It is not my cup of tea…
> It is too rich sounding,like heavy maple syrup for me.
> I like my dacs to be balanced and neutral sounding



OK. Now I understand.


----------



## normie610

It’s here! Still tired from re-arranging everything, but paired with Manley 300B preamp, it’s love at first listen! I’ve never heard an SS amp this good. Initial impression reminds me of hi-end vinyl sound, everything flows so smooth but full of dynamics and impact. How can that be?? I have to say I like this a lot better than 13R. There’s a lot more weight to the sound and the crazy thing is the soundstage is huugeee, compared to 13R it expanded in every possible direction. Is this the holy grail of SS amp? Yes I do believe so. I have to concur with @paradoxper 😊 Thank you again @Dukei for building this truly amazing amp! I’ll report back after more extensive listening and when those gorgeous Elna Silmic II caps are fully burned-in. Oh and it drives SR1a beautifully and sorry for the crappy pic, took it with my phone.


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> It’s here! Still tired from re-arranging everything, but paired with Manley 300B preamp, it’s love at first listen! I’ve never heard an SS amp this good. Initial impression reminds me of hi-end vinyl sound, everything flows so smooth but full of dynamics and impact. How can that be?? I have to say I like this a lot better than 13R. There’s a lot more weight to the sound and the crazy thing is the soundstage is huugeee, compared to 13R it expanded in every possible direction. Is this the holy grail of SS amp? Yes I do believe so. I have to concur with @paradoxper 😊 Thank you again @Dukei for building this truly amazing amp! I’ll report back after more extensive listening and when those gorgeous Elna Silmic II caps are fully burned-in. Oh and it drives SR1a beautifully and sorry for the crappy pic, took it with my phone.


Congrats, Normie!!! It looks truly sublime in your setup and thanks for your initial impressions! I'm so excited to hear one!


----------



## genefruit

normie610 said:


> It’s here! Still tired from re-arranging everything, but paired with Manley 300B preamp, it’s love at first listen! I’ve never heard an SS amp this good. Initial impression reminds me of hi-end vinyl sound, everything flows so smooth but full of dynamics and impact. How can that be?? I have to say I like this a lot better than 13R. There’s a lot more weight to the sound and the crazy thing is the soundstage is huugeee, compared to 13R it expanded in every possible direction. Is this the holy grail of SS amp? Yes I do believe so. I have to concur with @paradoxper 😊 Thank you again @Dukei for building this truly amazing amp! I’ll report back after more extensive listening and when those gorgeous Elna Silmic II caps are fully burned-in. Oh and it drives SR1a beautifully and sorry for the crappy pic, took it with my phone.


Looks great!  I'm curious if you plan on, at some point, feeding it directly rather than through the Manley to evaluate the sound without the tubes in place.


----------



## Bhk1004

normie610 said:


> It’s here! Still tired from re-arranging everything, but paired with Manley 300B preamp, it’s love at first listen! I’ve never heard an SS amp this good. Initial impression reminds me of hi-end vinyl sound, everything flows so smooth but full of dynamics and impact. How can that be?? I have to say I like this a lot better than 13R. There’s a lot more weight to the sound and the crazy thing is the soundstage is huugeee, compared to 13R it expanded in every possible direction. Is this the holy grail of SS amp? Yes I do believe so. I have to concur with @paradoxper 😊 Thank you again @Dukei for building this truly amazing amp! I’ll report back after more extensive listening and when those gorgeous Elna Silmic II caps are fully burned-in. Oh and it drives SR1a beautifully and sorry for the crappy pic, took it with my phone.


looks fantastic! love the yellow power button. Class all the way.


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> Congrats, Normie!!! It looks truly sublime in your setup and thanks for your initial impressions! I'm so excited to hear one!


Oh yeah I forgot to say thanks to you as well!! 😊


----------



## normie610

genefruit said:


> Looks great!  I'm curious if you plan on, at some point, feeding it directly rather than through the Manley to evaluate the sound without the tubes in place.


I was planning to but re-arranging everything is a lot of work! 😂 The space is a bit tight, so perhaps if I have the time I’ll try to do it. But so far I’m liking what I hear so no real motivation to try DAC direct to CFA3 😁


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> Oh yeah I forgot to say thanks to you as well!! 😊


No need to thank me...Dukei is the man with the magic. I can't wait to get mine... He may post some pics of the build eventually. Otherwise, I'll throw some up when it arrives.


----------



## normie610

Bhk1004 said:


> looks fantastic! love the yellow power button. Class all the way.


Well it’s actually amber, but somehow it shows as yellow in the picture 😅


----------



## Bhk1004

normie610 said:


> Well it’s actually amber, but somehow it shows as yellow in the picture 😅


yah I have the same one... not sure why I said yellow. photographs and colors all come across weird. anyways it looks great! enjoy and let us know what you think of it after you spend more time with it!


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> No need to thank me...Dukei is the man with the magic. I can't wait to get mine... He may post some pics of the build eventually. Otherwise, I'll throw some up when it arrives.


Ditto for me.


----------



## Dukei

@normie610
I see that we are not wasting time here. You jumped straight to the most complex load you could find


----------



## normie610

Dukei said:


> @normie610
> I see that we are not wasting time here. You jumped straight to the most complex load you could find


Well no time to waste indeed! 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> It’s here! Still tired from re-arranging everything, but paired with Manley 300B preamp, it’s love at first listen! I’ve never heard an SS amp this good. Initial impression reminds me of hi-end vinyl sound, everything flows so smooth but full of dynamics and impact. How can that be?? I have to say I like this a lot better than 13R. There’s a lot more weight to the sound and the crazy thing is the soundstage is huugeee, compared to 13R it expanded in every possible direction. Is this the holy grail of SS amp? Yes I do believe so. I have to concur with @paradoxper 😊 Thank you again @Dukei for building this truly amazing amp! I’ll report back after more extensive listening and when those gorgeous Elna Silmic II caps are fully burned-in. Oh and it drives SR1a beautifully and sorry for the crappy pic, took it with my phone.


Lovely! I been tellin' them.


----------



## eskamobob1

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Hope Dukei doesn't mind me sharing it here but we're currently doing an SMD build of the CFA3 that lets us use a shorter and narrower case (the 400mm depth was just too big!). It's a 3U high case but the best part is it allows us to flat lay the amp boards on the side heatsinks for a real amp-like look inside. With this there's so much space left inside it gives you a lot of upgrade options like going dual torroid, relay type attenuator, possibly even a dac board if you fancy that. The overall compactness of the amp is a big deal given they'll most likely end up on a desktop for most users and is one of the reasons I'm moving away from using speaker amps for my TC without losing the power.



Mind if I ask for expected case dimensions? Tbh the size of the cfa3 is a major downside to me personaly


----------



## Bhk1004

eskamobob1 said:


> Mind if I ask for expected case dimensions? Tbh the size of the cfa3 is a major downside to me personaly


34x30x10cm


----------



## eskamobob1

Bhk1004 said:


> 34x30x10cm



Thats for the new version? Thats tiny. 100% doable


----------



## Bhk1004

eskamobob1 said:


> Thats for the new version? Thats tiny. 100% doable


Yup. Don't ask how or why I know when I already have a cfa3... My wallet hurts.


----------



## eskamobob1

Bhk1004 said:


> Yup. Don't ask how or why I know when I already have a cfa3... My wallet hurts.



Hahahaha. Man after my own heart. I'm exited for when pictures finally drop.

Follow uo question, are yall running rall directly or through the box? Also, i can't find any descriptions of the sound of the cfa3 in this thread..... anyone know how it stacks up against the uberamp2 in terms of voicing?


----------



## drc73rp

This board has been busy! I didn't realize the CFA3 could run the SR1a's and without the interface? If that's the case I wonder if the speaker taps are a must for this or the hp out from the front will have the same output power anyway. I would love to have the SR1a option in the future.


----------



## normie610

AnaKinDV8 said:


> This board has been busy! I didn't realize the CFA3 could run the SR1a's and without the interface? If that's the case I wonder if the speaker taps are a must for this or the hp out from the front will have the same output power anyway. I would love to have the SR1a option in the future.


Well I’m using the interface box, but I don’t know about others though.


----------



## paradoxper

You should definitely use the interface unless you're able to measurabley raise the impedance a bit with cabling. The CFA drove the LCD-R quite well. Although at concession.


----------



## drc73rp (Sep 24, 2021)

Is there anything else added at the speaker taps? Otherwise I can still have the interface box but with an XLR input instead of speaker cable connectors so I can connect from the front of the CFA3.


----------



## littlej0e (Sep 24, 2021)

Without further ado... Here is a first look at my CFA3! @normie610 was correct - mine is very similar to his, but with some notable differences. Namely, the addition of "pimp" lights and an external power supply! Full list is below.

Primary Chassis:
Front

Dual balanced 3 pin
Single balanced 4 pin
Single unbalanced 1/4 inch | 6.35mm
Speaker/Headphone selector switch
Volume knob
Triple LEDs (orange/amber)
Rear

Dual 3 pin balanced XLR
Dual single ended unbalanced RCA
Quad speaker taps
Single-ended/balanced selector switch
High gain/low gain selector switch
DC power in Receptacle
Power Supply:
Front

Power switch (orange/amber)
Rear

Single DC power receptacle
Single AC power receptacle
Notes:

Goals
Achieve the best sound quality humanly possible
Obtain the maximum number of options and utility for single-ended, balanced, and speaker connections

Internals
TBD. I sprung for upgrades everywhere I possible could including knobs, caps, etc. but I don't have an exact list. Consequently, this will have to wait until I post my follow up. 

Lighting
The pimp lights actually serve a purpose other than aesthetics. The lights are my primary visual indicator that the amp is operational. The primary chassis will be installed on the top of my rack, while the PSU will be installed at the bottom with the DC umbilical running between them (I did the exact same thing with my streaming server and always try to keep power sources as far away from sound processing components as humanly possible). The end result is, I won't have to peek my head around my desk to look at the bottom of my rack to see if the CFA3 is running. First-world convenience problems amirite?!? Plus, the pimp lights look pimp...so there's that.

Sound
Initial feedback on the two chassis design is stellar. The builder couldn't hear any noise, even on high gain, while testing with HD800s. A stupidly low noise floor is extremely impressive given the ridiculous amount of power this thing puts out.

Recommendations
If you are interested in getting a CFA3, send a PM to Dukei.* DO IT RIGHT NOW!!!* Not only is he an extremely skilled CFA3 amp builder, but he's also a fantastic aesthetic designer. The little touches and attention to detail are everywhere - lettering fonts, sizes, and positions...quality connectors, capacitors, and other components...volume knob resistance and quality....etc....etc... This guy is legit phenomenal and an absolute dream to work with. I honestly can't recommend him enough. Dukei = Quali-tie (sorry...had to make it rhyme)
If you have the extra space, go with a two chassis design with the external PSU. Either that, or talk with your builder about adding some additional shielding for the toroidal transformer (if possible). The resulting bump in SQ seems to be more than worth it. In my humble opinion, the two chassis solution should be the de facto standard for those looking to get the ultimate sound quality out of the CFA3 design.

Comparisons
I am going to pit this CFA3 build directly against my ToTL Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS wiring and fully upgraded Tak, KR, and Gold Pin tubes. Should be fun!!!

Questions
I'll be running this amp paired with my Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs, but I can't help but wonder how the two chassis design would sound with slightly more sensitive headphones like the Susvaras.


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Without further ado... Here is a first look at my CFA3! @normie610 was correct - mine is very similar to his, but with some notable difference. Namely, the addition of "pimp" lights and an external power supply! Full list is below.
> 
> Primary Chassis:
> Front
> ...


Looks great. Dukei is shielding the power supply inside with mine.


----------



## ken6217

I’m curious to hear your impressions of the CFA3 and the WA33 Elite


----------



## littlej0e

ken6217 said:


> I’m curious to hear your impressions of the CFA3 and the WA33 Elite


So am I, believe me... However, I must stay that I'm scared $hitless the CFA3 will out perform it Let's just say...if you see me posting a classified ad selling the WA33 suspiciously before I post the results of my comparison, that should tell you everything you need to know - haha


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> So am I, believe me... However, I must stay that I'm scared $hitless the CFA3 will out perform it Let's just say...if you see me posting a classified ad selling the WA33 suspiciously before I post the results of my comparison, that should tell you everything you need to know - haha


Then let’s see how many people that say they lust over the WA33 put their hands in their pocket and take out their money.


----------



## eskamobob1

ken6217 said:


> Then let’s see how many people that say they lust over the WA33 put their hands in their pocket and take out their money.



I mean, I lust over a ton of stuff I simply won't buy. I pretty desperately want a b20 aurelia for example. But buying one when I litteraly can't find anyone willing to work on the car in my state means I probabaly won't pull that trigger


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> Without further ado... Here is a first look at my CFA3! @normie610 was correct - mine is very similar to his, but with some notable differences. Namely, the addition of "pimp" lights and an external power supply! Full list is below.
> 
> Primary Chassis:
> Front
> ...


Nice touch with the lighting! Yeah I wish I had more room for a separate PSU, but alas my space is just a bit too tight. Well mine is already super clean sounding, can’t imagine what yours would be like 😁 in any case congrats and enjoy!


----------



## DJJEZ

how much do these cost roughly to build?


----------



## genefruit

DJJEZ said:


> how much do these cost roughly to build?


<3k USD. Variability is based on upgraded components and options chosen.


----------



## DJJEZ

ken6217 said:


> I’m curious to hear your impressions of the CFA3 and the WA33 Elite


im very interested to hear this as well


----------



## drc73rp (Sep 25, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> how much do these cost roughly to build?


Roughly less than a Volot, HPA4, a second hand Formula S and just about most TOTL amps for planars. Yet you get more out of your money - fully balanced output, current driven amp with single ended and balanced inputs, dual mono power supply and tons of custom options at your disposal - TKD, DACT, Khozmo attenuators, Italian all aluminum casing, quality parts and several proven builders at your disposal. Oh and let's not forget the circuit design was by Kevin Gilmore.


----------



## vkenz

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Roughly less than a Volot, HPA4, a second hand Formula S and just about most TOTL amps for planars. Yet you get more out of your money - fully balanced output, current driven amp with single ended and balanced inputs, dual mono power supply and tons of custom options at your disposal - TKD, DACT, Khozmo attenuators, Italian all aluminum casing, quality parts and several proven builders at your disposal. Oh and let's not forget the circuit design was by Kevin Gilmore.


🤔🤔🤔 mine was more than the volot. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Without further ado... Here is a first look at my CFA3! @normie610 was correct - mine is very similar to his, but with some notable differences. Namely, the addition of "pimp" lights and an external power supply! Full list is below.
> 
> Primary Chassis:
> Front
> ...


The pimped lights are oh so ridiculous. LOL 

You should have done an led style volume indicator ring. 

Very nice despite the outlandish nature which is all fun.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> The pimped lights are oh so ridiculous. LOL
> 
> You should have done an led style volume indicator ring.
> 
> Very nice despite the outlandish nature which is all fun.


I’m going full pimped out on mine. I’m having Woo laser etched on the front panel.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I’m going full pimped out on mine. I’m having Woo laser etched on the front panel.


Understand it most certainly is not Woo on the inside. LMAO


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Understand it most certainly is not Woo on the inside. LMAO


Not even just a little bit? I was hoping for the Elite wiring.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Not even just a little bit? I was hoping for the Elite wiring.


Kevin Gilmore would have a ****ing stroke.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Kevin Gilmore would have a ****ing stroke.


Not to mention any Cavalli intervals either


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Not to mention any Cavalli intervals either


Now we're just dredging into incompetence.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Now we're just dredging into incompetence.


Check out some of the threads on Head Case about that. Spritzer has some choice words as well.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Check out some of the threads on Head Case about that. Spritzer has some choice words as well.


It's well established. Sadly, new inquiring minds, full of fun spirit, are, well, clueless. Woo, Cavalli, Ray Samuels tip the iceberg of mediocrity.

Shrugs. Nothing you can do.


----------



## Pashmeister

I found someone locally who builds the CFA3 and I'm looking into it. My goodness my wallet is aching. I just preordered a Burson GT and now I'm looking into the CFA 3 while the new iPhone also just came out. lol.


----------



## paradoxper

Pashmeister said:


> I found someone locally who builds the CFA3 and I'm looking into it. My goodness my wallet is aching. I just preordered a Burson GT and now I'm looking into the CFA 3 while the new iPhone also just came out. lol.


Do share. We're hoping it is not Thuan. Sigh.


----------



## Pashmeister

paradoxper said:


> Do share. We're hoping it is not Thuan. Sigh.


Sorry man, who/what is a Thuan? 

If it's the name of the person building the CFA3, nope not a Thuan.


----------



## normie610

Pashmeister said:


> I found someone locally who builds the CFA3 and I'm looking into it. My goodness my wallet is aching. I just preordered a Burson GT and now I'm looking into the CFA 3 while the new iPhone also just came out. lol.


Yeah need to be careful with who the builder is. It’s best if you could see the internals of his past builds and consult with someone who has extensive experience with KG amps.


paradoxper said:


> Do share. We're hoping it is not Thuan. Sigh.


I saw his supposedly ”Megatron” amp on HC, and boy that‘s one ugly work.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Yeah need to be careful with who the builder is. It’s best if you could see the internals of his past builds and consult with someone who has extensive experience with KG amps.
> 
> I saw his supposedly ”Megatron” amp on HC, and boy that‘s one ugly work.


Fortunately / unfortunately he, too, built a few CFA3's. And Dynahi. 

Luckily he didn't seem to completely **** those builds. 

But totally suspect.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 25, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> Sorry man, who/what is a Thuan?
> 
> If it's the name of the person building the CFA3, nope not a Thuan.


Thuan/Tran is a singular name of a multitude brand. Felitsa. FLS. Lil Knight. The list goes on.

Past, present, future builds are all criminal.

He is based in Singapore.


----------



## littlej0e

paradoxper said:


> The pimped lights are oh so ridiculous. LOL
> 
> You should have done an led style volume indicator ring.
> 
> Very nice despite the outlandish nature which is all fun.


Genius... Wish I would have thought of the volume indicator  

I'm mostly excited about the external PSU though. The lower noise floor will be hugely beneficial. I'm also really looking forward to pitting it against the WA33 EE JPS. I can't imagine any SS amp, even the CFA3, competing with the gorgeous harmonics and sheer open staging this thing provides. I guess we'll see...


----------



## dstubked

paradoxper said:


> Thuan/Tran is a singular name of a multitude brand. Felitsa. FLS. Lil Knight. The list goes on.
> 
> Past, present, future builds are all criminal.
> 
> He is based in Singapore.


I'm from Singapore and recently had a SuperSymmetry Dynahi built here by a loca DIYer (not Felitsa) and I am 101% sure Felitsa is based out of Vietnam and not Singapore.

I posted some pics of my build on the Head-fi FB group yesterday and someone commented being worried about my build in case it was being built by Felitsa. 

I am interested to know what was so bad about Felitsa's build so I can better educate myself 😬

In any case I am really happy with the results of my build and never heard the Susvara better before.


----------



## vkenz

dstubked said:


> I'm from Singapore and recently had a SuperSymmetry Dynahi built here by a loca DIYer (not Felitsa) and I am 101% sure Felitsa is based out of Vietnam and not Singapore.
> 
> I posted some pics of my build on the Head-fi FB group yesterday and someone commented being worried about my build in case it was being built by Felitsa.
> 
> ...


Better not use your susvara with that amp if builder has a shady reputation.  Else it will be disaster waiting to happen.  Just use it with a K7xx so that your damage will be acceptable.


----------



## dstubked

vkenz said:


> Better not use your susvara with that amp if builder has a shady reputation.  Else it will be disaster waiting to happen.  Just use it with a K7xx so that your damage will be acceptable.


100% agree. I'm thankful the guy who built my amp loaned me a unit to test and used it for quite awhile before I was satisfied and commissioned him to build it for me.


----------



## vkenz

was the parts all original?  Can you post a photo?


----------



## paradoxper

dstubked said:


> I'm from Singapore and recently had a SuperSymmetry Dynahi built here by a loca DIYer (not Felitsa) and I am 101% sure Felitsa is based out of Vietnam and not Singapore.
> 
> I posted some pics of my build on the Head-fi FB group yesterday and someone commented being worried about my build in case it was being built by Felitsa.
> 
> ...


Felitsa is not just 1. For example, he started out as Lil Knight having base in Australia. Don't forget, Lil Knight stole $20k from friends, from KGSSHV and T2 commissions.
Thuan/Tran are his latest incarnations. Vietnam / Singapore, who knows where else. 

Still doing criminal crap.


----------



## tunes

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Hope Dukei doesn't mind me sharing it here but we're currently doing an SMD build of the CFA3 that lets us use a shorter and narrower case (the 400mm depth was just too big!). It's a 3U high case but the best part is it allows us to flat lay the amp boards on the side heatsinks for a real amp-like look inside. With this there's so much space left inside it gives you a lot of upgrade options like going dual torroid, relay type attenuator, possibly even a dac board if you fancy that. The overall compactness of the amp is a big deal given they'll most likely end up on a desktop for most users and is one of the reasons I'm moving away from using speaker amps for my TC without losing the power.


----------



## dstubked

paradoxper said:


> Felitsa is not just 1. For example, he started out as Lil Knight having base in Australia. Don't forget, Lil Knight stole $20k from friends, from KGSSHV and T2 commissions.
> Thuan/Tran are his latest incarnations. Vietnam / Singapore, who knows where else.
> 
> Still doing criminal crap.


Anyways, Felitsa / lil knight / Thuan / Tran whoever he is has his pic on FB before and I met my builder. Looks totally different.


----------



## dstubked

vkenz said:


> was the parts all original?  Can you post a photo?


----------



## paradoxper

dstubked said:


> Anyways, Felitsa / lil knight / Thuan / Tran whoever he is has his pic on FB before and I met my builder. Looks totally different.


As long as you feel comfortable.

Personally, if you're using Kevin Gilmore's designs, you should be vetted through Head-Case and display your competence.

Wouldn't get my business otherwise. But do you.


----------



## carlcs

This thread and the post of @littlej0e has inspired me to save up and have a fully speced out CFA3 built by @Dukei 😂 my hobbies are stretching my wallet thin haha


----------



## tunes

littlej0e said:


> Genius... Wish I would have thought of the volume indicator
> 
> I'm mostly excited about the external PSU though. The lower noise floor will be hugely beneficial. I'm also really looking forward to pitting it against the WA33 EE JPS. I can't imagine any SS amp, even the CFA3, competing with the gorgeous harmonics and sheer open staging this thing provides. I guess we'll see...


I agree that there needs to be a comparative review with several high end commercial amps with Susvara/Abyss TC before pulling the trigger on a DIY amp purchase.  When these are built does the DIY builder have all of the sophisticated bench testing equipment to measure the amp performance and trouble shoot circuit problems like a tiny solder bridge etc??


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Genius... Wish I would have thought of the volume indicator
> 
> I'm mostly excited about the external PSU though. The lower noise floor will be hugely beneficial. I'm also really looking forward to pitting it against the WA33 EE JPS. I can't imagine any SS amp, even the CFA3, competing with the gorgeous harmonics and sheer open staging this thing provides. I guess we'll see...


I wouldn’t go for any external LEDs. Maybe it’s just me, but any amp or preamp that I’ve ever owned, when I turned off the front display it sounded better. I’ve read reviews for some components where the reviewer said similar. Again, as the saying goes YMMV.


----------



## Pashmeister

tunes said:


> I agree that there needs to be a comparative review with several high end commercial amps with Susvara/Abyss TC before pulling the trigger on a DIY amp purchase.  When these are built does the DIY builder have all of the sophisticated bench testing equipment to measure the amp performance and trouble shoot circuit problems like a tiny solder bridge etc??


Also even with having comparative reviews available, one will have to remember that unit variation is expected (but hopefully not too big of a difference) given differences in builder skill sets and components used. It's really a unique challenge to potential owners who do have to rely on other people's experiences and reviews.


----------



## tunes

Agree.  QC is an issue and it’s a several thousand dollar gamble with questionable warrantee backup.


----------



## nepherte

littlej0e said:


> I'll be running this amp paired with my Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs, but I can't help but wonder how the two chassis design would sound with slightly more sensitive headphones like the Susvaras.


I have that exact same question, but scrap the slightly more sensitive and replace with highly sensitive headphones. I was hoping to use this amp to drive the entire spectrum of headphones, from Empyrean to Susvara and Abyss.


----------



## paradoxper

I'm not speaking to Singapore's relation, their groups aren't active within Head-Case.

Kevin Gilmore is always helpful with troubleshooting issues.

My build incorporated the SuSy/Zero Feedback which gave us some initial oscillation problems. Kevin found the fix promptly.

The proven DIY community is nothing close to questionable.

But you get what you pay for, as they say.


----------



## tunes

If the Kevin Gilmore designed HP amp is really so much better than say a $6K Bakoon, then why isn’t there a commercial offering for the KG CFA3??


----------



## vkenz

dstubked said:


>


Yup, it looks great.  It's a beautiful build.


----------



## paradoxper

tunes said:


> If the Kevin Gilmore designed HP amp is really so much better than say a $6K Bakoon, then why isn’t there a commercial offering for the KG CFA3??


Do more reading, ask less stupid questions please.


----------



## ken6217

tunes said:


> If the Kevin Gilmore designed HP amp is really so much better than say a $6K Bakoon, then why isn’t there a commercial offering for the KG CFA3??


The more important question is why is the Bakoon $6000???


----------



## vkenz

ken6217 said:


> The more important question is why is the Bakoon $6000???


This is a trick question?  The question was valid you know.... maybe Mr Kevin Gilmore can please stand up and answer?


----------



## ken6217

vkenz said:


> This is a trick question?  The question was valid you know.... maybe Mr Kevin Gilmore can please stand up and answer?


Why would it be a trick question? It’s ridiculous that that amp is $6000. I’m not addressing how it sounds. Can you give me the justification?


----------



## tunes

paradoxper said:


> Do more reading, ask less stupid questions please.


Ok
Sorry if my questions are stupid to you.  Perhaps you shouldn’t waste your precious time even responding to my posts.   We are all here for fun and enlightenment after all.


----------



## vkenz (Sep 26, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Why would it be a trick question? It’s ridiculous that that amp is $6000. I’m not addressing how it sounds. Can you give me the justification?



🤔🤔🤔 i thought, it a general thingy is audiophile world to have a high price because of all the expenses in r&d, marketing, rma, etc etc.  it does not have the scale of apple or software tech companies. also no funding from VC… etc.  i also wonder why a bartok is priced so high. but yeah it is the way of the audiophile?


----------



## Narayan23

paradoxper said:


> Do more reading, ask less stupid questions please.


No such thing as a stupid question, you have vast knowledge and experience in the headphone realm but that doesn´t give you the right to be patronizing and rude like you often are.


----------



## paradoxper

tunes said:


> Ok
> Sorry if my questions are stupid to you.  Perhaps you shouldn’t waste your precious time even responding to my posts.   We are all here for fun and enlightenment after all.


Please. Your questions are convoluted. Kevin Gilmore publishes his designs to the public for free. The CFA3 was completed in June 2020 during covid peaks. You are being pedantic. I'm not even sure if Mjolnir Audio would qualify as commercial to you. 

In any event, we've already spoken in PM previously, DIY means, well, something, doesn't it. LOL


----------



## paradoxper

Narayan23 said:


> No such thing as a stupid question, you have vast knowledge and experience in the headphone realm but that doesn´t give you the right to be patronizing and rude like you often are.


You can find it patronizing, I'm far too transparent for your liking, I get it.


----------



## ken6217

vkenz said:


> 🤔🤔🤔 i thought, it a general thingy is audiophile world to have a high price because of all the expenses in r&d, marketing, rma, etc etc.  it does not have the scale of apple or software tech companies. also no funding from VC… etc.  i also wonder why a bartok is priced so high. but yeah it is the way of the audiophile?


Even if that’s so. that doesn’t counter my statement. Relative to other hifi audio amplifiers, and I’m even speaking of speaker amps, their price is outrageous. And no, the Bakoon would not be considered hifi. I mean that’s almost the same price as a pass labs X 30.8. Take a look at that amp and see what you think.


----------



## ken6217 (Sep 26, 2021)

https://www.passlabs.com/products/xa30-8/


----------



## Narayan23

paradoxper said:


> You can find it patronizing, I'm far too transparent for your liking, I get it.


Transparent is not what you are, rude and self righteous absolutely, you take the time to write piss poor condescending answers, but can´t find it in yourself to help and point others eager for knowledge in the right direction.


----------



## paradoxper

Narayan23 said:


> Transparent is not what you are, rude and self righteous absolutely, you take the time to write piss poor condescending answers, but can´t find it in yourself to help and point others eager for knowledge in the right direction.


We'll agree to disagree.


----------



## vkenz (Sep 26, 2021)

Narayan23 said:


> Transparent is not what you are, rude and self righteous absolutely, you take the time to write piss poor condescending answers, but can´t find it in yourself to help and point others eager for knowledge in the right direction.


I think we need to stop this guys.  It is @paradoxper that got me interested in the CFA3 as well and I ordered one from Dukei.  I think he is just very passionate of CFA3 you know.


----------



## puppypatrol

paradoxper said:


> We'll agree to disagree.


I've corresponded with paradoxper privately and he has been informative, generous with his time and seems like he'd be a great guy to hang out with - I personally love his contributions here.


----------



## paradoxper

vkenz said:


> I think we need to stop this guys.  It is @paradoxper that got me interested in the CFA3 as well and I ordered one from Dukei.


My skin is far from thin and Kevin's design has been proven over and over and over. No defense required.


----------



## vkenz

paradoxper said:


> My skin is far from thin and Kevin's design has been proven over and over and over. No defense required.


It is not a defense for you.  I know you are just passionate about KG, but that straight shooter attitude and the "RTFM" response, does not do Kevin Gilmore any good you know.


----------



## Narayan23

puppypatrol said:


> I've corresponded with paradoxper privately and he has been informative, generous with his time and seems like he'd be a great guy to hang out with - I personally love his contributions here.


I´m in this thread purely because of Paradoxper´s high praise of this amp, I value his opinion, I just don´t always like the way he delivers it, and yes I´ll stop here, back to the Cfa3.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 26, 2021)

vkenz said:


> It is not a defense for you.  I know you are just passionate about KG, but that straight shooter attitude and the "RTFM" response, does not do Kevin Gilmore any good you know.


Ok. Good luck with that warm Head-Case reception you anticipate.

Back to CFA3 - shenanigans please.


----------



## tunes

paradoxper said:


> Please. Your questions are convoluted. Kevin Gilmore publishes his designs to the public for free. The CFA3 was completed in June 2020 during covid peaks. You are being pedantic. I'm not even sure if Mjolnir Audio would qualify as commercial to you.
> 
> In any event, we've already spoken in PM previously, DIY means, well, something, doesn't it. LOL


I appreciate your willingness to share your experience with the amp and Kevin Gilmore’s proven design.  I am sure you are passionate about the amp and DIY process and I respect that.   However, I am a surgeon and a professor and share my knowledge with students in a compassionate and open hearted way that fosters learning and questioning every aspect of how we heal human beings.   I would never say to a student that any question or idea was stupid.  I have very thick skin but intolerant of nasty, counter-productive remarks.  Enough said.


----------



## ken6217

vkenz said:


> I think we need to stop this guys.  It is @paradoxper that got me interested in the CFA3 as well and I ordered one from Dukei.  I think he is just very passionate of CFA3 you know.


+1

I’m close to $15k poorer since I’ve met him.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Ok. Good luck with that warm Head-Case reception you anticipate.



Make sure you lube up with a lot of Vaseline. It’s gonna hurt.


----------



## paradoxper

tunes said:


> I appreciate your willingness to share your experience with the amp and Kevin Gilmore’s proven design.  I am sure you are passionate about the amp and DIY process and I respect that.   However, I am a surgeon and a professor and share my knowledge with students in a compassionate and open hearted way that fosters learning and questioning every aspect of how we heal human beings.   I would never say to a student that any question or idea was stupid.  I have very thick skin but intolerant of nasty, counter-productive remarks.  Enough said.


Last punch. No right or wrong, just soft and strong.

From your question I inferred a general snark. 

If the Kevin Gilmore designed HP amp is really so much better than say a $6K Bakoon, then why isn’t there a commercial offering for the KG CFA3??

I'll remove some of my dry directness in the future for our feelings.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> +1
> 
> I’m close to $15k poorer since I’ve met him.


We ain't done yet! LOL


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> We ain't done yet! LOL


I thought about that as I typed it.


----------



## Pashmeister

How hot does CFA3 get? Like a super space heater that probably could fry an egg, or pretty normal and doesn’t stand out from usual class A / AB?


----------



## ken6217

Pashmeister said:


> How hot does CFA3 get? Like a super space heater that probably could fry an egg, or pretty normal and doesn’t stand out from usual class A / AB?


I borrowed one for a couple of weeks before I ordered mine, it’s not hot at all. I don’t mean that just subjectively either.


----------



## paradoxper

Pashmeister said:


> How hot does CFA3 get? Like a super space heater that probably could fry an egg, or pretty normal and doesn’t stand out from usual class A / AB?


It's A/B warm. Efficient sinking keeps it managed and the CFA circuit is more efficient so produces less heat for equal output to, say, Dynahi.


----------



## littlej0e

tunes said:


> I agree that there needs to be a comparative review with several high end commercial amps with Susvara/Abyss TC before pulling the trigger on a DIY amp purchase.  When these are built does the DIY builder have all of the sophisticated bench testing equipment to measure the amp performance and trouble shoot circuit problems like a tiny solder bridge etc??


I couldn't agree more. We really need in-depth, unbiased, and reputable head-to-head comparisons (and preferably measurements) against well known commercial amps. I presume the lack of available info on the CFA3 is a byproduct of the relative obscurity of the amp itself combined with highly variable levels of build quality and performance. Hopefully, time, exposure, more users, etc. will help solve this. I also respect and value people's opinion's, especially many in this thread, but I think we need to set reasonable expectations for those considering buying one of these. Buying a DIY amp is obviously great for some, but could be potentially dangerous and a total PITA for others if not done carefully. The rules are a bit different than buying a commercial amp.  



dstubked said:


>


I can't speak to the actual quality or sonics of the build, but must say....holy crap, this is absolutely GORGEOUS. Wow!!!


----------



## kevin gilmore

-.0001 point for visible wakefield smudge.


----------



## buzzlulu

kevin gilmore said:


> -.0001 point for visible wakefield smudge.


Eagle eye
Not sure I would have spotted it with my advancing age🤣


----------



## ken6217

kevin gilmore said:


> -.0001 point for visible wakefield smudge.


I think that was John Belushi grade point average in Animal House.


----------



## tunes

paradoxper said:


> Last punch. No right or wrong, just soft and strong.
> 
> From your question I inferred a general snark.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the last punch. LOL.


----------



## ken6217

tunes said:


> Thanks for the last punch. LOL.


Tag. You’re it.


----------



## drc73rp

paradoxper said:


> Felitsa is not just 1. For example, he started out as Lil Knight having base in Australia. Don't forget, Lil Knight stole $20k from friends, from KGSSHV and T2 commissions.
> Thuan/Tran are his latest incarnations. Vietnam / Singapore, who knows where else.
> 
> Still doing criminal crap.


Wow, dodged a bullet with this one. I had inquired with him about a possible CFA3 build when I was still canvassing builds and builders. How is he still not banned here?


----------



## paradoxper

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Wow, dodged a bullet with this one. I had inquired with him about a possible CFA3 build when I was still canvassing builds and builders. How is he still not banned here?


Glad to hear. He was advertising hard. /kytuphicanh has been shadow-banned, fortunately.


----------



## eskamobob1

ken6217 said:


> I borrowed one for a couple of weeks before I ordered mine, it’s not hot at all. I don’t mean that just subjectively either.



Is this a thing? Is there someone that offers demos for a fee? Tbh I'm majorly cutrious about cfa3 but obviously its a big gamble given the non-existant resale market


----------



## ken6217

eskamobob1 said:


> Is this a thing? Is there someone that offers demos for a fee? Tbh I'm majorly cutrious about cfa3 but obviously its a big gamble given the non-existant resale market


Just a generous Head-fi member that lives not that far from me.


----------



## littlej0e (Sep 28, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Is this a thing? Is there someone that offers demos for a fee? Tbh I'm majorly cutrious about cfa3 but obviously its a big gamble given the non-existant resale market


I wouldn’t be so sure about the resale market. To my knowledge, the last time one of these went up for sale on head-fi, it sold within a couple hours for asking. Given the relatively low cost, especially compared to commercial amps, I think most of the risk is in choosing a builder and ensuring you get a quality build.


----------



## eskamobob1

littlej0e said:


> I wouldn’t be so sure about the resale market. To my knowledge, the last time one of these went up for sale on head-fi, it’s sold within a couple hours for asking. Given the relatively low cost, especially compared to commercial amps, I think most of the risk is in choosing a builder and ensuring you get a quality build.



Sorry. I didn't mean to say there was no resale market but instead that it was just unproven.



ken6217 said:


> Just a generous Head-fi member that lives not that far from me.



Oh, nice! Very jealous


----------



## littlej0e

eskamobob1 said:


> Sorry. I didn't mean to say there was no resale market but instead that it was just unproven.



Absolutely. I don’t think anyone can argue with you there. DIY/custom is still DIY/custom, regardless of how good it is supposed to be.


----------



## normie610

eskamobob1 said:


> Is this a thing? Is there someone that offers demos for a fee? Tbh I'm majorly cutrious about cfa3 but obviously its a big gamble given the non-existant resale market


Go for it, it’s not a gamble 😁


----------



## ken6217

You know something sounds good, when you listen to somwthjng and you like it but you don’t expect it to sound good.

i’ve been using a Simaudio 600 I V2 speaker amp for the last year and a half and sounds phenomenal. I borrowed the CFA3 with the expectation that I wouldn’t like it. I listened to it for one night, and sold the 600i, and commisioned a CFA3.


----------



## jlbrach

high praise indeed


----------



## paradoxper

eskamobob1 said:


> Sorry. I didn't mean to say there was no resale market but instead that it was just unproven.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, nice! Very jealous


I'll buy yours. I need a second CFA3, anyways. LOL


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> I'll buy yours. I need a second CFA3, anyways. LOL


And trash the Primavera? 😜


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> And trash the Primavera? 😜


Not even happening. I do need a CFA3 in a secondary system especially with the SR2a coming.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Not even happening. I do need a CFA3 in a secondary system especially with the SR2a coming.


Ah I see. Can’t you use the Uberamp2 for SR2a?


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Ah I see. Can’t you use the Uberamp2 for SR2a?


With baffle compensation turned off, yes. I'm moving toward a second system for another home. The SR2a fits the bill with the transformer interface making it the most compelling complement.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> With baffle compensation turned off, yes. I'm moving toward a second system for another home. The SR2a fits the bill with the transformer interface making it the most compelling complement.


Got it


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Got it


Let's see if Aleksandar optimizes the transformer first. I'll be so bummed if not. LOL


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Let's see if Aleksandar optimizes the transformer first. I'll be so bummed if not. LOL


Well he said done deal in the other thread, so no worries on that front 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Well he said done deal in the other thread, so no worries on that front 😁


He thinks the CFA3 is a sure thing but nothing is quite in practice yet. The other amps won't be suitable, they won't have the proper output requirement nor adequate sinking. Maybe the middle-goer's like Ragnarok. I don't see how they avoid "speaker" amps.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> The other amps won't be suitable, they won't have the proper output requirement nor adequate sinking.


You’re right, I forgot about this


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 29, 2021)

normie610 said:


> You’re right, I forgot about this


CFA3 is dogging these clowns. I wonder if any headamps might meet the requirement. I quickly looked at the Formula S, fail.
AMP-13R might burn up. It's just there with zero headroom.
Timekeeper passes.
Volot might pending its protection scheme.
Pro iCan barely passes output with very minimal headroom and questionable thermal stability.
Master 9 passes.
Singer SA-1 barely passes unsure a single on-board sink is stable.
Niimbus fails just also supports protection scheme.
A90 fails miserably.
BHA-1 fails miserably.
Kinki THR-1 not even close. Head scratching. Nice fancy weighted case.

What did I miss?


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> CFA3 is dogging these clowns. I wonder if any headamps might meet the requirement. I quickly looked at the Formula S, fail.
> AMP-13R might burn up. It's just there with zero headroom.


Volot perhaps?


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Volot perhaps?


It might trigger its protection.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> CFA3 is dogging these clowns. I wonder if any headamps might meet the requirement. I quickly looked at the Formula S, fail.
> AMP-13R might burn up. It's just there with zero headroom.
> Timekeeper passes.
> Volot might pending its protection scheme.
> ...



Wells Head Trip.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Wells Head Trip.


That French for garbage.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> That French for garbage.


Pepé Le Pew


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Pepé Le Pew


Certainly triggering.  🤣


----------



## tunes

ken6217 said:


> Wells Head Trip.





paradoxper said:


> CFA3 is dogging these clowns. I wonder if any headamps might meet the requirement. I quickly looked at the Formula S, fail.
> AMP-13R might burn up. It's just there with zero headroom.
> Timekeeper passes.
> Volot might pending its protection scheme.
> ...


Is this called amp rolling?

Ever hear about this one??
https://www.thesoundadvocate.com/2021/09/boenicke-p1-power-amplifier-full-review/


----------



## paradoxper

tunes said:


> Is this called amp rolling?
> 
> Ever hear about this one??
> https://www.thesoundadvocate.com/2021/09/boenicke-p1-power-amplifier-full-review/


This was just discussion in context of driving the RAAL SR2a. Which will be limited in scope.

I've never heard a Class D amp that didn't sound like ass, to be honest.


----------



## Pashmeister (Sep 29, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> This was just discussion in context of driving the RAAL SR2a. Which will be limited in scope.
> 
> I've never heard a Class D amp that didn't sound like ass, to be honest.


Unfortunately same. Got Ncore monoblocks because they were supposed to be at the top of Class D amp ranking but it was an instant nope for me  class D keeps evolving though, I hope to hear one in the near future that I will love.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 4, 2021)

Removed comparison for the sake of responsibly conveying accurate information. A voltage limitation was discovered with the DAC I was using for the comparison, which may have skewed my results between the WA33 EE JPS with the CFA3. I will do another comparison and retest when my new DAC arrives.


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> I've been directly comparing my WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring and fully upgraded tubes (hereafter referred to simply as the "WA33") vs a fully upgraded CFA3 with an external power supply (hereafter referred to as a "CFA3") and thought I would pass along some initial feedback. Below is a head-to-head comparison between the two.
> 
> *TL;DR: *I think they are both fantastic amplifiers. They are different amps for different people for potentially different use cases and budgets. Is the CFA3 a "WA33 killer"? No, well, at least not in my opinion. They are just different. The gun-to-my-head recommendation would be that if you value accuracy and listen to mostly rock, metal, hiphop, edm, or any other harder-hitting genre, you owe it to yourself to try a CFA3. It is flat out amazing. If you value musical enjoyment, aren't worried about accuracy, and listen to mostly acoustic, classical, jazz, or otherwise softer genres where overall presentation tends to be coveted over raw performance, give the WA33 a listen. If you have money to burn and are looking for the ultimate experience, I would personally lean towards the WA33. If you are looking for one of the highest performing amps with best "bang-for-your buck" on planet earth, I think it would be incredibly difficult to beat a CFA3. That said, both amps will work exceptionally well for either use case.
> 
> ...


Nice F ucking job! I'm not as eloquent as you.


----------



## buzzlulu

Great review
Anyone care to compare a CFA3 vs. GSX MK2?


----------



## Pashmeister

littlej0e said:


> I've been directly comparing my Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring and fully upgraded tubes (hereafter referred to simply as the "WA33") vs a fully upgraded CFA3 with an external power supply (hereafter referred to as the "CFA3") and thought I would pass along some initial feedback. Below is a head-to-head comparison between them.
> 
> *TL;DR: *I think they are both fantastic amplifiers. They are different amps for different people for potentially different use cases and budgets. Is the CFA3 a "WA33 killer"? No. Well, at least not in my opinion. They are just different. The gun-to-my-head recommendation would be that if you value accuracy and listen to mostly rock, metal, hip hop, edm, or any other harder-hitting genres, you owe it to yourself to try a CFA3. It is flat out amazing. If you value raw musical enjoyment, aren't worried about accuracy, and listen to mostly acoustic, classical, jazz, or otherwise softer genres where overall presentation tends to be coveted over raw performance, give the WA33 a listen. If you have money to burn and are looking for the ultimate experience, I would personally lean towards the WA33. If you are looking for one of the highest performing amps with best "bang-for-your buck" on planet earth, I think it would be incredibly difficult to beat a CFA3. That said, both amps will work exceptionally well for either use case.
> 
> ...


Great review. My favorite set up is tube preamp into a powerful SS amp. I like to pair my power amp with some good NOS preamp tubes (not the modern ones that sound solid state) and it gives me just the right mix of ss power with addictive non-fatiguing tube flavor. Looks like the CFA3 can definitely benefit from a tube preamplifier.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 2, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> Great review. My favorite set up is tube preamp into a powerful SS amp. I like to pair my power amp with some good NOS preamp tubes (not the modern ones that sound solid state) and it gives me just the right mix of ss power with addictive non-fatiguing tube flavor. Looks like the CFA3 can definitely benefit from a tube preamplifier.


Thanks!

I love this approach. Pairing an SS with a tube preamp is a fine solution and one I may try in the very near future...like tonight or tomorrow - haha. I'm going to connect the CFA3 to the WA33 in preamp mode and see how it sounds. I also wholeheartedly agree the CFA3 could benefit from a tube preamp to take the edge off, but it obviously depends on your tastes.



ken6217 said:


> Nice F ucking job! I'm not as eloquent as you.


Thanks, Ken! I would argue you are more eloquent though. Getting to the point is so hard for me without cussing like a sailor and pointedly saying, "ahhh f-uck it...this sounds like $hit because it does..."


----------



## normie610

Pashmeister said:


> Great review. My favorite set up is tube preamp into a powerful SS amp. I like to pair my power amp with some good NOS preamp tubes (not the modern ones that sound solid state) and it gives me just the right mix of ss power with addictive non-fatiguing tube flavor. Looks like the CFA3 can definitely benefit from a tube preamplifier.





littlej0e said:


> I love this approach. Pairing an SS with a tube preamp is a fine solution and one I may try in the very near future...like tonight or tomorrow - haha. I'm going to connect the CFA3 to the WA33 in preamp mode and see how it sounds. I also wholeheartedly agree the CFA3 could benefit from a tube preamp to take the edge off, but it obviously depends on your tastes.


This is what I have in my setup and the combo sounds heavenly! Those 300B tubes with incredibly seductive mids, combined with the speed and impact of CFA3….they give me goosebumps


----------



## genefruit

littlej0e said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I love this approach. Pairing an SS with a tube preamp is a fine solution and one I may try in the very near future...like tonight or tomorrow - haha. I'm going to connect the CFA3 to the WA33 in preamp mode and see how it sounds. I also wholeheartedly agree the CFA3 could benefit from a tube preamp to take the edge off, but it obviously depends on your tastes.


Great review!  Thank you.  I kept reading and waiting for the moment when you decided to have the WA33 feed the CFA3.  I look forward to reading your results, as I have something similar in the works.


----------



## tunes

I want a CFA3 but nervous about QC and warrantee issues despite known excellent builders. I suppose a 3K gamble is not too much for some of us in the hobby.  If I can listen to one at one of the headphone shows or if there was someone willing to share a listen in the New York metro area I would jump at the chance.  If it ever became a commercial product even at twice the price, I bet there would be many more interested in purchasing.


----------



## Bhk1004

tunes said:


> I want a CFA3 but nervous about QC and warrantee issues despite known excellent builders. I suppose a 3K gamble is not too much for some of us in the hobby.  If I can listen to one at one of the headphone shows or if there was someone willing to share a listen in the New York metro area I would jump at the chance.  If it ever became a commercial product even at twice the price, I bet there would be many more interested in purchasing.


I'm in NJ if you want to try it out once my second one comes in. 07960 zip code.


----------



## littlej0e

genefruit said:


> Great review!  Thank you.  I kept reading and waiting for the moment when you decided to have the WA33 feed the CFA3.  I look forward to reading your results, as I have something similar in the works.


I just finished listening to a couple of tracks using the WA33 in preamp mode for the CFA3. I am still sitting here in slack-jawed amazement.

I need to pretend like I didn't just hear what I just heard if I'm ever going to bring myself to sell the WA33. I need to fiddle with the configuration a bit though. I'm losing significant resolution and clarity. Everything else is absolutely PHENOMENAL. 

Mr. Genefruit...YOU, SIR, ARE THE DEVIL!!!!


----------



## jlbrach

littlej0e said:


> I just finished listening to a couple of tracks using the WA33 in preamp mode for the CFA3. I am still sitting here in slack-jawed amazement.
> 
> I need to pretend like I didn't just hear what I just heard if I'm ever going to bring myself to sell the WA33. I need to fiddle with the configuration a bit though. I'm losing significant resolution and clarity. Everything else is absolutely PHENOMENAL.
> 
> Mr. Genefruit...YOU, SIR, ARE THE DEVIL!!!!


resolution and clarity seems like a pretty big thing lol


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> I just finished listening to a couple of tracks using the WA33 in preamp mode for the CFA3. I am still sitting here in slack-jawed amazement.
> 
> I need to pretend like I didn't just hear what I just heard if I'm ever going to bring myself to sell the WA33. I need to fiddle with the configuration a bit though. I'm losing significant resolution and clarity. Everything else is absolutely PHENOMENAL.
> 
> Mr. Genefruit...YOU, SIR, ARE THE DEVIL!!!!


That’s one very expensive preamp 😁


----------



## littlej0e

jlbrach said:


> resolution and clarity seems like a pretty big thing lol


Oh, for sure! That's why I need to figure out what's what and dial this in. I've been running both amps at low gain and max vol. I'm going to switch one to high gain and see what's what. I really wish you could hear this. It adds about 75% of the "Woo sauce", dumps on a bucket full of dynamics, adds liberal dash of accuracy....then throws the mule-kicking bass of the CFA3 on top. This is truly *phenomenal*...


----------



## ken6217

Pashmeister said:


> Great review. My favorite set up is tube preamp into a powerful SS amp. I like to pair my power amp with some good NOS preamp tubes (not the modern ones that sound solid state) and it gives me just the right mix of ss power with addictive non-fatiguing tube flavor. Looks like the CFA3 can definitely benefit from a tube preamplifier.


Well ther


Bhk1004 said:


> I'm in NJ if you want to try it out once my second one comes in. 07960 zip code.


Ben, the hybrid?


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> Oh, for sure! That's why I need to figure out what's what and dial this in. I've been running both amps at low gain and max vol. I'm going to switch one to high gain and see what's what. I really wish you could hear this. It adds about 75% of the "Woo sauce", dumps on a bucket full of dynamics, adds liberal dash of accuracy....then throws the mule-kicking bass of the CFA3 on top. This is truly *phenomenal*...


Perhaps set low gain on WA33 and high gain on CFA3


----------



## littlej0e

Yep, this woo amp isn't going anywhere...


----------



## Roasty

@littlej0e great review man!
always listen to your heart...


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> Perhaps set low gain on WA33 and high gain on CFA3


I actually just did the exact opposite. I went high on the woo and kept the CFA3 at low. The sound just got even better. I am friggin speechless...


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> I actually just did the exact opposite. I went high on the woo and kept the CFA3 at low. The sound just got even better. I am friggin speechless...


It’s official then. Tube preamp and CFA3 combo beats everything else! 👌🏼


----------



## genefruit

littlej0e said:


> I just finished listening to a couple of tracks using the WA33 in preamp mode for the CFA3. I am still sitting here in slack-jawed amazement.
> 
> I need to pretend like I didn't just hear what I just heard if I'm ever going to bring myself to sell the WA33. I need to fiddle with the configuration a bit though. I'm losing significant resolution and clarity. Everything else is absolutely PHENOMENAL.
> 
> Mr. Genefruit...YOU, SIR, ARE THE DEVIL!!!!


I come in many forms but yet I don't exist.

I expect adjusting output levels of the WA33 will find the right balance to not overload the input on the CFA3.  Then the decision will be can you get there with a less expensive tube preamp and sell the WA33 or...

My plan is taking the front XLR outs of the DNA Stellaris into the CFA3 either directly or via the HPA4.  Via the HPA4 seems like the best route, as it's quite transparent and can accept up to 20Vrms while the Stellaris outputs 9Vrms so the inputs shouldn't overload.


----------



## normie610

Heavenly combo with some glow 😁


----------



## Bhk1004

ken6217 said:


> Well ther
> 
> Ben, the hybrid?


Yessum.


----------



## ken6217

300B tubes in the Manley? I like them better than 2A3.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 2, 2021)

normie610 said:


> It’s official then. Tube preamp and CFA3 combo beats everything else! 👌🏼


_Without question_. This is easily the best sound I have ever heard from the Abyss TCs. Period. Not by a particularly close margin either. Just...WOW! This sound straight up $hits on the WA33 EE JPS and/or CFA3 amps individually. It's not even close. Together they form a sound like the friggin' voice of god. The bass hits like an absolute truck (CFA3 trait), The stage actually gets even bigger with significantly more depth (W-T-F?!? HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?!?!), the harmonics get even better and trigger my synesthesia almost instantly (both, but mostly the WA33), the dynamics get significantly better (again, both...but mostly the CFA3), the instruments sound much more like instruments (the CFA3), then everything is dipped in an effortless, heavenly elegance (likely the WA33). I am just blown away.

At this point I have two gripes:

The left and right perimeter sounds are significantly louder and seem to drown out the center a bit more than I like. I'm not sure if this is mix dependant or not. We'll see
Messing with the gain seemed to fix most of the res and clarity issues, but it still sounds ever-so-slightly loose and dirty. This might be unavoidable as I noticed this was one of the drawbacks going from the WA33 to the CFA3 in general.
I'm going to keep fiddling with everything and see what I can do.

I hereby dub this combo "The Devil's Whisper" in honor of Mr. Genefruit...lol


----------



## ken6217

Bhk1004 said:


> Yessum.


My amp is just about finished. I’ll have to bring it by for you to listen. It has the secret sauce.


----------



## normie610

ken6217 said:


> 300B tubes in the Manley? I like them better than 2A3.


Yes 300B….the mids are just out of this world


----------



## normie610

ken6217 said:


> It has the secret sauce.


Tube input stage?


----------



## ken6217 (Oct 2, 2021)

normie610 said:


> Tube input stage?


No. Toshiba input and output transistors. Steel potted transformer. Dukei said it's dead quiet, steel potted transformer or external PSU seems to do the trick to avoid noise floor being picked up with efficient headphones.


----------



## littlej0e

genefruit said:


> I come in many forms but yet I don't exist.
> 
> I expect adjusting output levels of the WA33 will find the right balance to not overload the input on the CFA3.  Then the decision will be can you get there with a less expensive tube preamp and sell the WA33 or...
> 
> My plan is taking the front XLR outs of the DNA Stellaris into the CFA3 either directly or via the HPA4.  Via the HPA4 seems like the best route, as it's quite transparent and can accept up to 20Vrms while the Stellaris outputs 9Vrms so the inputs shouldn't overload.


You called it. It works with either setting, but I get the best performance with low gain on the WA33 and high gain on the CFA3. It adds this fantastic low end dynamics to everything that when combined with the WA33 sauce becomes even more addictive. I can't unhear it and instantly know when it's missing now. It totally ruined me...    

I think you have the right idea with the Stellaris. HPA4 definitely seems like the way to go. Seems like that would be the thing to try first anyway...


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> I get the best performance with low gain on the WA33 and high gain on the CFA3


Just as I suspected 👌🏼


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> Perhaps set low gain on WA33 and high gain on CFA3


Yes, sir...you were 100% right. That does indeed seem to be the magic setting. This is a complete list of my settings at the moment:

WA33 Low gain at max volume
CFA3 high gain at approx. 75% volume
Roon DSP at 0db to -15db depending on track vol level (I've also been playing around with fixed volume, but I can't tell much difference)
The last thing I'm struggling with is volume and levels. I really have to crank up the volume to get the maximum magic. I lose so much impact, dynamics, bass response, and presence at lower volumes. I noticed this was true with most tracks on the CFA3 in general, so it might be unavoidable in this configuration. I'm going to keep playing with it tomorrow.

Thanks again for the excellent advice.


----------



## genefruit

Couple of things to try.

Check your notes from June when you tried something similar with the Raal HSA-1b amp (came up in a search).  Might get some ideas from there. 

 I’d leave Roon at max volume as king as you’re not clipping the input on the WA33. Then low gain and turn the volume up on the WA33 to at least 12 o’clock. From there, adjust the CFA3 volume to your liking. 

You could try taking the dual XLR output from the front of the WA33 and feed the CFA3 input. You’ll want to start with Roon at fixed volume, the gain levels low and the volume dials low  experiment. This should raise the output of the WA33 considerably, as I’m not sure it’s preamp stage even uses the 2A3s. From there, adjust the WA33 until it’s outputting a level that lets you adjust the CFA3 with an acceptable range.


----------



## drc73rp

ken6217 said:


> No. Toshiba input and output transistors. Steel potted transformer. Dukei said it's dead quiet, steel potted transformer or external PSU seems to do the trick to avoid noise floor being picked up with efficient headphones.


Me like the steel potted transformer...


----------



## Pashmeister

littlej0e said:


> Yes, sir...you were 100% right. That does indeed seem to be the magic setting. This is a complete list of my settings at the moment:
> 
> WA33 Low gain at max volume
> CFA3 high gain at approx. 75% volume
> ...


Glad to hear it’s working out excellently for you.

i do not have the wa33 but I have some good experience with:

- Cayin SC-6LS Mk2 (or a Primaluna, they’re pretty comparative)
- Musical Paradise MP-701 mk2

Now I just need to be patient because this CFA3 is gonna take a few weeks.


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Yes, sir...you were 100% right. That does indeed seem to be the magic setting. This is a complete list of my settings at the moment:
> 
> WA33 Low gain at max volume
> CFA3 high gain at approx. 75% volume
> ...


Isn’t that the first thing anyone learns? Turn the volume higher and it sounds better. that’s why it’s always important to level match two components if you’re comparing them.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 3, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Isn’t that the first thing anyone learns? Turn the volume higher and it sounds better. that’s why it’s always important to level match two components if you’re comparing them.


Yes, but I found this to be particularly true with CFA3 and thought it might be worth mentioning. It wasn’t subtle-to-good like it was on the WA33 or other amps I’ve tried. It was more like “holy $hit, this is at a whole new world”.

The levels were obviously matched when I was comparing them individually, but can’t be in the preamp/amp configuration they are in now.



genefruit said:


> Couple of things to try.
> 
> Check your notes from June when you tried something similar with the Raal HSA-1b amp (came up in a search).  Might get some ideas from there.


Yeah, thanks...I forgot about that. I'm going to revisit this comparison with another DAC. The CFA3 obviously lacks much of the isolation circuitry the WA33 has and is considerably less resolving and dirtier when I feed it directly from the Schitt DAC. But when I feed it from the WA33 in preamp, the those problems disappear almost completely and it sounds like Jesus. Consequently, I'm starting to think the CFA3 is overly sensitive to whatever you put behind it. This is obviously true with most audio gear, but seems to be especially true with the CFA3. I have a Soulution 560 coming in a couple of weeks, so I'll revisit then.



genefruit said:


> I’d leave Roon at max volume as king as you’re not clipping the input on the WA33. Then low gain and turn the volume up on the WA33 to at least 12 o’clock. From there, adjust the CFA3 volume to your liking.


I'll give it a try. As a general rule, I always try to avoid using DSP whenever possible...but my laziness got the better of me after I finished the head-to-head testing. I'll dial in this configuration in with Roon set to fixed and go from there.


genefruit said:


> You could try taking the dual XLR output from the front of the WA33 and feed the CFA3 input. You’ll want to start with Roon at fixed volume, the gain levels low and the volume dials low  experiment. This should raise the output of the WA33 considerably, as I’m not sure it’s preamp stage even uses the 2A3s. From there, adjust the WA33 until it’s outputting a level that lets you adjust the CFA3 with an acceptable range.


Very interesting recommendation. I never thought of doing this. Looks like I'll need to pick up some male-to-male XLR adapters though. I didn't know preamp mode bypasses the 2A3s...


----------



## genefruit (Oct 3, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> Very interesting recommendation. I never thought of doing this. Looks like I'll need to pick up some male-to-male XLR adapters though. I didn't preamp mode bypasses the 2A3s...


yes, you will need adapters but they're inexpensive and can arrive pretty quick via Amazon.  Here are some that appear to arrive pretty quick - https://smile.amazon.com/Cable-Matt...r/dp/B07X374FG2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=39OB0CQIRGD4Q

If you like the end results, you can decide how much you want to spend on a boutique solution.  In anticipation of my testing, I had Bluejeans cable make me a XLR male to male cable with a 90 degree end on one side for a cleaner connection from the dual XLR outputs.

I cannot confirm whether the preamp mode bypasses the 2A3s.   I wasn't able to find a schematic or any internal pics of the WA33 to evaluate but much hunch is it bypasses the 2A3s. If it doesn't, the preamp outs would either be pretty high and I doubt you'd need to turn up the CFA3 as much as you are to get adequate output or there are resisters in place between the output of the 2A3s and the XLR outputs on the back.  I'm sure someone can provide a better or fuller answer but for the price of the XLR adapters, you could test which you like better.

addendum - from Audio Advisor's site


Preamp maximum output: 10V + 10V balanced
Preamp output impedance: 50 ohms
This is less than the 17.88V the headphone output (based on specs) provides, so some padding down is taking place somewhere.


----------



## ken6217

Isn’t the general recommendation not to use two volume controls as there is a sound penalty? I would think the best course of action is to max out the CFA3 and use the preamp of the WA33.


----------



## littlej0e

genefruit said:


> yes, you will need adapters but they're inexpensive and can arrive pretty quick via Amazon.  Here are some that appear to arrive pretty quick - https://smile.amazon.com/Cable-Matt...r/dp/B07X374FG2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=39OB0CQIRGD4Q
> 
> If you like the end results, you can decide how much you want to spend on a boutique solution.  In anticipation of my testing, I had Bluejeans cable make me a XLR male to male cable with a 90 degree end on one side for a cleaner connection from the dual XLR outputs.
> 
> ...


Great minds think a like. I already placed the order for the exact model you linked because it was able to be delivered tomorrow


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 3, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Isn’t the general recommendation not to use two volume controls as there is a sound penalty? I would think the best course of action is to max out the CFA3 and use the preamp of the WA33.


This is my understanding as well, especially if one of them is digital. When my new DAC arrives, I will technically have four in the mix, but only three being used (CFA3, WA33, Soulution 560 (digital - LEEDH), and Roon DSP). I plan to fiddle around with everything and see what works and what doesn’t. Regardless, it really seems like the CFA3 is quite sensitive to whatever you put behind it, so be prepared.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 3, 2021)

genefruit said:


> If you like the end results, you can decide how much you want to spend on a boutique solution.  In anticipation of my testing, I had Bluejeans cable make me a XLR male to male cable with a 90 degree end on one side for a cleaner connection from the dual XLR outputs.


Smart man. I may try something like this as well. Or I might sacrifice two pairs of spare XLRs I got off of amazon a couple years back and mod them myself just to start.



genefruit said:


> I cannot confirm whether the preamp mode bypasses the 2A3s.   I wasn't able to find a schematic or any internal pics of the WA33 to evaluate but much hunch is it bypasses the 2A3s. If it doesn't, the preamp outs would either be pretty high and I doubt you'd need to turn up the CFA3 as much as you are to get adequate output or there are resisters in place between the output of the 2A3s and the XLR outputs on the back.  I'm sure someone can provide a better or fuller answer but for the price of the XLR adapters, you could test which you like better.
> 
> addendum - from Audio Advisor's site
> 
> ...



Yep, you are absolutely right. I'm quite interested in what this will do. Thus far, I've gotten the best results with the following configuration:

WA33: low gain, volume approx. 70%
CFA3: high gain, vol approx. 65% - 85% depending on track.
Roon/Foobar2000: Fixed 100% / 0db
This seems to result in the best performance at the lowest volume. The sound is a very textured, but still a bit airy and liquidy smooth with a fantastic low end that will tightly and cleanly (but still powerfully) rattle your teeth. The bass and mid bass in particular are so much fuller and more expansive than with either amp individually. Really, really addictive sound.

All of that said, I still can't wait to try your recommendation. I suspect it's going to take this rig to a whole new level...


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> less resolving and dirtier


You’re also using Elna Silmic II caps in your CFA3 right? In my experience they need a long time to burn in, at least above 100 hours to sound good.


----------



## normie610

genefruit said:


> but much hunch is it bypasses the 2A3s


This is also my hunch, perhaps it only uses the driver tubes in preamp mode.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 3, 2021)

normie610 said:


> You’re also using Elna Silmic II caps in your CFA3 right? In my experience they need a long time to burn in, at least above 100 hours to sound good.


Yes indeed and that is certainly a consideration. But those caps sound like Jesus when I use the WA33 as a preamp, so what gives? There is no reason it should sound so much dirtier by itself. I highly suspect the DAC is to blame here. I’m using a cheap Schitt DAC until my Soulution 560 gets here. I’m going to redo the WA33 vs CFA3 comparison when it arrives. I'm thinking the WA33 has considerably more noise isolation circuitry and that's why the CFA3 sounds so much dirtier and distortion-filled (especially at higher volumes) whenever I connect directly to the DAC. My theory is the WA33 is acting as a passive in-line noise isolation filter which is resulting in significantly better electrical performance and noise reduction. So the key takeaway is the CFA3 seems to be quite sensitive to whatever you put behind it.


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> Soulution 560


That’s really quite a big jump going from Schiit 😁 when you have it setup with WA33 and CFA3, you should use LEEDH as the main volume controller and make sure that in Roon, the volume control is set up to “Device Volume”.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 3, 2021)

normie610 said:


> That’s really quite a big jump going from Schiit 😁 when you have it setup with WA33 and CFA3, you should use LEEDH as the main volume controller and make sure that in Roon, the volume control is set up to “Device Volume”.


Haha, it is indeed. I recently sold my Holo May KTE + Holo Serene Preamp combo and upgraded to the Soulution 560. I got this POS schitt DAC (see what I did there?!?) to tide me over until the 560 arrives. You nailed my future setup exactly. I'm going to leave the WA33, CFA3, and Roon exactly where I have them (see previous post with my current settings) and use the LEEDH to adjust the track volume. Should work beautifully as long as the LEEDH is everything they say it is...


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> as long as the LEEDH is everything they say it is


It is! I can never go back to non-LEEDH volume on my Lumin, the sound is much cleaner and musical with LEEDH.


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> It is! I can never go back to non-LEEDH volume on my Lumin, the sound is much cleaner and musical with LEEDH.


OUTSTANDING!!! Guess it's time to ride my dealer friend like a jockey and pester him until the 560 arrives


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 3, 2021)

Heads up...it was the DAC that was causing the problem. On the advice of a very smart Head-fi member, I switched it out with an iFi iDSD Black Label and it's a night-and-day difference. No more grunge and dirt. The clarity and rez is still a touch behind the WA33, but not by much...

I'm going to revisit this whole comparison when my 560 gets here.


----------



## ken6217

What DAC were you using?


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 4, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> What DAC were you using?



Was using an old Schitt Modi 2, but swapped it for the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label for testing. Turns out the RCA voltage on the M2 was too low and caused all sorts of grunge, dirt, stage collapse, etc. The BL proved this to be the case as everything cleared up when I switched. But the BL leans so bright I had to switch back to the M2 before I scratched my ears off. I'm just going to run the CFA3 in front of the WA33 and M2 until the 560 arrives then revisit the comparison.

In summary, the CFA3 nor it's perceived "sensitivity" were the issue. The low voltage from the M2 combined with user error of not knowing any better were the problem.


Edit: I removed the comparison as the voltage issue with the DAC may have skewed my results. I will re do the comparison when my new DAC arrives.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I have a audio-gd HE-9 headphone amplifier.  It drives my Susvara and TC to incredible heights.   Can I assume this is a worthy upgrade or are we talking subtle- once you get to this level?


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> I have a audio-gd HE-9 headphone amplifier.  It drives my Susvara and TC to incredible heights.   Can I assume this is a worthy upgrade or are we talking subtle- once you get to this level?


The HE-9 is one of the few very good commercial solid state headamps. It would be better to clarify what you may be looking for in an upgrade.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> The HE-9 is one of the few very good commercial solid state headamps. It would be better to clarify what you may be looking for in an upgrade.


Better sound.  Specifically fuller bodied sound, more bass weight, more slam..   Not that I don't already have all that- but could I get more? or not much more?

I use TC  and Susvara and soon LCD-5...  Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Perhaps Mr. Gilmore could chime in on this as he is both the designer of this amplifier and a big supporter of audio-gd...


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> Better sound.  Specifically fuller bodied sound, more bass weight, more slam..   Not that I don't already have all that- but could I get more? or not much more?
> 
> I use TC  and Susvara and soon LCD-5...  Any advice is appreciated.


At what expense. I would rate the CFA3 as slightly better defined in the bass -- both are tight and controlled. CFA3 has a smoother treble response -- both are rather resolute. You may trade a considered full-body especially more fleshed mids and more full bloomed bass with a tube amplifier.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Thanks.  No tubes for me.  I just don't want to get into it no matter how good it sounds...

Sounds like I have a world class amp. already.   I think I'll stay with what I have.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> Thanks.  No tubes for me.  I just don't want to get into it no matter how good it sounds...
> 
> Sounds like I have a world class amp. already.   I think I'll stay with what I have.


Everything has a tradeoff IMO to give context. I love the CFA3, however, I understand reasonable expectations and wouldn't want to upsell you in a disingenuous manner.


----------



## Womaz (Oct 5, 2021)

I take it that its nigh on impossible to get someone to build a CFA3 in the UK?
I am not sure I should even be thinking about it anyway as I am a novice , but I am enjoying this thread.


----------



## ken6217

Womaz said:


> I take it that its nigh on impossible to get someone to build a CFA3 in the UK?
> I am not sure I should even be thinking about it anyway as I am a novice , but I am enjoying this thread.


There is an excellent amp builder in Sweden. All it takes is an email and Paypal, and you don't even have to leave your chair.


----------



## littlej0e

Womaz said:


> I take it that its nigh on impossible to get someone to build a CFA3 in the UK?
> I am not sure I should even be thinking about it anyway as I am a novice , but I am enjoying this thread.


Being a novice (I'm not too far off myself) is actually a great reason to get a CFA3. This thing will give you fantastic sound for a small fraction of what a similarly performing commercial amp would cost. You are actually incredibly lucky in that you've stumbled upon this "summit-fi" (I hate that phrase) solution without having to waste gobs of money like most of us have. You many not "appreciate" the CFA3 quite as much as a seasoned vet might, but it will set the bar impossibly high to the point where you'll likely never have to chase anything better. Different perhaps, but probably not better. 

PM @Dukei to get started. I bought mine from him and couldn't be happier. He is the CFA3 builder @ken6217 was referencing and a fantastic one at that.


----------



## Womaz

littlej0e said:


> Being a novice (I'm not too far off myself) is actually a great reason to get a CFA3. This thing will give you fantastic sound for a small fraction of what a similarly performing commercial amp would cost. You are actually incredibly lucky in that you've stumbled upon this "summit-fi" (I hate that phrase) solution without having to waste gobs of money like most of us have. You many not "appreciate" the CFA3 quite as much as a seasoned vet might, but it will set the bar impossibly high to the point where you'll likely never have to chase anything better. Different perhaps, but probably not better.
> 
> PM @Dukei to get started. I bought mine from him and couldn't be happier. He is the CFA3 builder @ken6217 was referencing and a fantastic one at that.


OK this is bloody tempting now   
I take it that its a bit of a gamble with no warranty etc......I also have no idea of the costs. I will have a very good think about this.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 5, 2021)

Womaz said:


> OK this is bloody tempting now
> I take it that its a bit of a gamble with no warranty etc......I also have no idea of the costs. I will have a very good think about this.


It is unquestionably a gamble with no warranty. However, what you do have is arguably comparable, and in some cases better than, a "warranty." You have a gaggle of audio nerds on this forum that will likely help you in the event you need it along with a builder that would almost certainly do the same. If you ever have to ship it back to sweden for repairs, it is what it is. The cost would be unavoidable. Theoretically, if you just so happened to have the worst luck in the universe and the CFA3 broke 5 times and you had to pay to ship it back to Sweden for repairs each of those 5 times, you probably still wouldn't approach the initial cost of a similarly performing commercial amp. Yep.

Remember, a warranty is a wonderful thing to have, but buying a quality product is almost always better. To quote Tommy Boy, "Because they know all they sold you was a guaranteed piece of $hit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I've got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me."

Just some food for thought.


----------



## Womaz

littlej0e said:


> It is unquestionably a gamble with no warranty. However, what you do have is arguably comparable, and in some cases better than, a "warranty." You have a gaggle of audio nerds on this forum that will likely help you in the event you need it along with a builder that would almost certainly do the same. If you ever have to ship it back to sweden for repairs, it is what it is. The cost would be unavoidable. Theoretically, if you just so happened to have the worst luck in the universe and the CFA3 broke 5 times and you had to pay to ship it back to Sweden for repairs each of those 5 times, you probably still wouldn't approach the initial cost of a similarly performing commercial amp. Yep.
> 
> Remember, a warranty is a wonderful thing to have, but buying a quality product is almost always better. To quote Tommy Boy, "Because they know all they sold you was a guaranteed piece of $hit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me."
> 
> Just some food for thought.


Laughed out loud......brilliant. 
Its a huge leap of faith for me , but I will definitely give it serious consideration. I have only had the TCs 2 weeks and they sound great with the amp I have......so I am trying not to rush into things


----------



## littlej0e

Womaz said:


> so I am trying not to rush into things


Literally the the smartest thing you could ever do in this hobby... 

Good luck on your journey and remember to enjoy the ride as much as the destination!


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 5, 2021)

**OFF TOPIC ALERT**

This actually raises an important question I've been asking myself for a while: what is the proper term for a group of nerds? A gaggle? A murder? A pride? A school? A herd? A "herd of nerds" does seem to have a particular ring to it.


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Literally the the smartest thing you could ever do in this hobby...


If everyone follow that path Head-fi would be 95% smaller. LOL


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> If everyone follow that path Head-fi would be 95% smaller. LOL


Going slow is so boring!


----------



## littlej0e

ken6217 said:


> If everyone follow that path Head-fi would be 95% smaller. LOL


So true... And most audio companies would be out on their a$$es.


----------



## Mofomamy

I think the classified link from earlier in the thread is broken. I am intrigued. @Dukei Ballpark how much? What options are there? I apologize if there's a post somewhere detailing this.


----------



## Womaz

Mofomamy said:


> I think the classified link from earlier in the thread is broken. I am intrigued. @Dukei Ballpark how much? What options are there? I apologize if there's a post somewhere detailing this.


PM him maybe, I dont think he will want prices broadcast all over this thread.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 5, 2021)

rsbrsvp said:


> Better sound.  Specifically fuller bodied sound, more bass weight, more slam..   Not that I don't already have all that- but could I get more? or not much more?
> 
> I use TC  and Susvara and soon LCD-5...  Any advice is appreciated.


I had the HE-9 and was disappointed. It had exceptional microdynamics, but lacked behind in macrodynamics compared to the Gustard H20 with SparkoS opamps. Now what I mean by that is that when the volume was pretty steady, it reproduced all these fine nuances and subtle details very well, sounding intricate and delicate. But when strong bass hit out of nowhere, it was a pretty lackluster experience. So overall I found it underwhelming, unengaging, not exciting enough, even though it showed an area of improvability for the H20. That was with the Ether C Flow, probably still the 1.0 at the time.

I stuck with the H20 for a long time and only recently tried the SparkoS Aries and Pass Labs HPA-1, this time with the DCA Stealth. The HPA-1 is a keeper for me, the Aries isn't.

Both probably aren't as powerful as what you're looking for, so this isn't meant to be a recommendation for some concrete amp, but against the HE-9. I think better can be had, especially given what you say you're looking for.



littlej0e said:


> This actually raises an important question I've been asking myself for a while: what is the proper term for a group of nerds? A gaggle? A murder? A pride? A school? A herd? A "herd of nerds" does seem to have a particular ring to it.


Nasty little nerdses.


----------



## littlej0e

Alcophone said:


> Nasty little nerdses.



I _love_ it! Double plural nerds it is!!


----------



## ken6217

Alcophone said:


> Nasty little nerdses.


It's 2021. Let's not leave anyone out. Nerdettes for the ladies!


----------



## decur

littlej0e said:


> Haha, it is indeed. I recently sold my Holo May KTE + Holo Serene Preamp combo and upgraded to the Soulution 560. I got this POS schitt DAC (see what I did there?!?) to tide me over until the 560 arrives. You nailed my future setup exactly. I'm going to leave the WA33, CFA3, and Roon exactly where I have them (see previous post with my current settings) and use the LEEDH to adjust the track volume. Should work beautifully as long as the LEEDH is everything they say it is...


How did you like your cfa3 with holo may kte? Ive been thinking of getting a may kte to pair with my cfa3 being built by dukei…


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 7, 2021)

I thought it was an excellent pairing, but I didn’t get enough time with them together to be 100% sure (I had to ship the May shortly after I got the CFA3). The May KTE added a some ladder DAC-y goodness and warmth and very good holographics. It seemed like a pretty good counterbalance pairing with a revealing SS amp like the CFA3. Won’t be everyone’s cup of tea obviously and I wouldn’t call it neutral, overly accurate, or analytical. Just a good pairing for musical and enjoyable sound. Definitely whiskey sipping sound.

Theoretically, if you are on a 10k budget and looking for a fairly good and balanced pairing, I think both would be worth considering.


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> I thought it was an excellent pairing, but I didn’t get enough time with them together to be 100% sure (I had to ship the May shortly after I got the CFA3). The May KTE added a some ladder DAC-y goodness and warmth and very good holographics. It seemed like a pretty good counterbalance pairing with a revealing SS amp like the CFA3. Won’t be everyone’s cup of tea obviously and I wouldn’t call it neutral, overly accurate, or analytical. Just a good pairing for musical and enjoyable sound. Definitely whiskey sipping sound.
> 
> Theoretically, if you are on a 10k budget and looking for a fairly good and balanced pairing, I think both would be worth considering.


Have you received your Solution 560?


----------



## littlej0e

normie610 said:


> Have you received your Solution 560?


Nope, just shy of two weeks out. I can’t wait…


----------



## decur

littlej0e said:


> I thought it was an excellent pairing, but I didn’t get enough time with them together to be 100% sure (I had to ship the May shortly after I got the CFA3). The May KTE added a some ladder DAC-y goodness and warmth and very good holographics. It seemed like a pretty good counterbalance pairing with a revealing SS amp like the CFA3. Won’t be everyone’s cup of tea obviously and I wouldn’t call it neutral, overly accurate, or analytical. Just a good pairing for musical and enjoyable sound. Definitely whiskey sipping sound.
> 
> Theoretically, if you are on a 10k budget and looking for a fairly good and balanced pairing, I think both would be worth considering.


great thanks littlejoe,
i like the r2r ladder sound warmth and holographics too...
how would you rate the bass slam coming from kte may into the cfa3?
for r2r ladder dacs,its my understanding that the may does a good job with this. most r2r dacs really excell in the mids,but by nature,most are soft in the bass..


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 8, 2021)

decur said:


> great thanks littlejoe,
> i like the r2r ladder sound warmth and holographics too...


Man after my own heart! I'm personally not a fan of most delta sigma DACs, though I understand why many people like them - especially paired with a good tube amp. Different sides of the same coin and just another way to balance the sound I suppose. If you are an R2R guy, I think the May KTE is _extremely_ underrated, though I can't speak to the non-KTE version. I haven't heard anything I liked more until I got to the Rockna Wavedream Signature, DCS Bartok, DCS Rossini, and the Soulution 560. But those are all significantly more expensive with various different architectures (I believe the DCS's are some sort of proprietary "Ring" architecture). Something else to consider might be the Mola Mola Tambaqui. It sounded quite warm, revealing, and analog (I really hate that descriptor) and the raw performance was slightly better than the May KTE, but it sounded oddly artificial to my ear. However, I demoed it with the WA33 and it could have been a case of too much of a good thing, so it is likely still worth trying on your rig.



decur said:


> how would you rate the bass slam coming from kte may into the cfa3?
> for r2r ladder dacs,its my understanding that the may does a good job with this. most r2r dacs really excell in the mids,but by nature,most are soft in the bass..


I have a bit of a skewed opinion when it comes to bass on this setup because I was using the Holo Serene Preamp, which definitely added a little more kick. Collectively, the bass out of those three, CFA3 > Serene > May KTE, was quite good. Not the absolute strongest I've ever heard, but still very good...say 7 out of 10. Consequently, I assume the May will do a very good job on it's own. I think it will come down to the headphones/speakers you are using. If you are using Abyss TCs, buy a May KTE with confidence. I mean, the TCs could kick a hole in the wall hooked up to a powerful toaster...


----------



## ken6217

Anyone ever compare the Sonnet Morpheus to the KTE?


----------



## geoffalter11

Hey all CFA3 threaders...

So, my CFA3 is under way.  Getting pretty excited.  I currently use a Denafrips Pontus II & Cembalo Labs Spring 1, and can't wait for my CFA3.  What should I expect, and will it offer great synergy with my Auteur, Radiante 1706 and Code X?  The Code X I am 99.9% sure will be a perfect compliment, but unsure of my others.  I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments.  A thank you to @Dukei for his professionalism and talent.  And a thank you to @paradoxper for the recommend. 

I have been looking at other amps for awhile trying to determine my next amp.  The Pure BiPolar, Sparkos Labs Aries, Ferrum Oor, among others... With very little convincing, I am going to be a very proud owner of a CFA3 before too long.

Thanks in advance...


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Hey all CFA3 threaders...
> 
> So, my CFA3 is under way.  Getting pretty excited.  I currently use a Denafrips Pontus II & Cembalo Labs Spring 1, and can't wait for my CFA3.  What should I expect, and will it offer great synergy with my Auteur, Radiante 1706 and Code X?  The Code X I am 99.9% sure will be a perfect compliment, but unsure of my others.  I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments.  A thank you to @Dukei for his professionalism and talent.  And a thank you to @paradoxper for the recommend.
> 
> ...


Here comes another.

We are unstoppable.


----------



## Gizmo1k

After some reliability concerns with the Ferrum Oor. I’ve cancelled my order and commissioned @Dukei to build a cfa3 for me. It will be getting sent to @GoldenOne first for him to review and measure, sounded like possibly won’t be complete until the end of November but I am super excited nonetheless.


----------



## genefruit (Oct 10, 2021)

Another one heading toward the USA tomorrow thanks to @Dukei and @paradoxper 

Items of note:
Khozmo 48 step attenuator
Elna caps
LSK170 & LSJ74 input transistors
Upgraded output resistors

I'll report back when I've experienced the sonic impact of this anticipated wonder.


----------



## paradoxper

genefruit said:


> Another one heading toward the USA tomorrow thanks to @Dukei
> 
> Items of note:
> Khozmo 48 step attenuator
> ...


Enjoy with the TC.


----------



## littlej0e

genefruit said:


> Another one heading toward the USA tomorrow thanks to @Dukei and @paradoxper
> 
> Items of note:
> Khozmo 48 step attenuator
> ...


Congrats, man! I’m quite sure you’ll enjoy it! Let us know how it sounds!


----------



## littlej0e

paradoxper said:


> Enjoy with the TC.


Have you, or anyone else, tried the CFA3 with the Susvara? Always wondered how they would pair.


----------



## Gizmo1k

littlej0e said:


> Have you, or anyone else, tried the CFA3 with the Susvara? Always wondered how they would pair.


I think @normie610 has.  I will also as soon as my cfa3 is delivered in a month plus.


----------



## ken6217

I’m sure Paradoxper has.


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> Have you, or anyone else, tried the CFA3 with the Susvara? Always wondered how they would pair.





Gizmo1k said:


> I think @normie610 has.  I will also as soon as my cfa3 is delivered in a month plus.


My impressions which I posted earlier was with Susvara and SR1a.


----------



## geoffalter11

I am also getting quite excited for my CFA3.  Looking forward to leaving impressions.  Not only of how it sounds with my headphones, but how it compares to my current SS workhorse, which is an insanely good amp.  Gonna be a great 1-2 combo...


----------



## Gizmo1k

normie610 said:


> My impressions which I posted earlier was with Susvara and SR1a.


Do you have a link handy?  I’m having trouble finding it. Also noticed you put speaker taps on your CFA3. I might have to look into that.


----------



## normie610

Gizmo1k said:


> Do you have a link handy?  I’m having trouble finding it. Also noticed you put speaker taps on your CFA3. I might have to look into that.


It’s on page 15 of this thread


----------



## rangerid

I too, have a CFA3 coming in November


----------



## rsbrsvp

A question for the technically minded.

If an amp. is rated at 8W RMS     - what does that mean?  I thought watts was always relative to ohms, like 8 wats @ 32 ohms?

Also- how many watts at how many ohms is the output of the CFA-3?

thanks- to the technically able...


----------



## genefruit

rsbrsvp said:


> A question for the technically minded.
> 
> If an amp. is rated at 8W RMS     - what does that mean?  I thought watts was always relative to ohms, like 8 wats @ 32 ohms?
> 
> ...


16W at 50ohms

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/page-4#post-15946333


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> 16W at 50ohms
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/page-4#post-15946333


Uh oh. Abyss will put this on their next video of how to blow up your headphone and your cranium


----------



## paradoxper (Oct 11, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> Have you, or anyone else, tried the CFA3 with the Susvara? Always wondered how they would pair.


Yes, the combination works and works very well. It helps take away some of Susvara's more limp-leading attack pushing it more towards an LCD-4 characterisitc, but as a whole, I am not a fan of how the Susvara sounds no matter the amp.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> A question for the technically minded.
> 
> If an amp. is rated at 8W RMS     - what does that mean?  I thought watts was always relative to ohms, like 8 wats @ 32 ohms?
> 
> ...


You should ignore RMS terminology instead think of it as 8w* nominal.

 You'll want to pay attention to what the output spec is listed at and take into consideration from the design topology and 'beef' if that's A/AB and peak or MAX.

These really are only considerations for TC/Susvara. The numbers are a little arbitrary though. 2w is good at 60 ohms. Pay more attention to things like the power supply design.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 12, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Yes, the combination works and works very well. It helps take away some of Susvara's more limp-leading attack pushing it more towards an LCD-4 characterisitc, but as a whole, I am not a fan of how the Susvara sounds no matter the amp.


Now this is interesting... Would you be so kind as to expand on why you don't like the Susvaras? I personally thought they sounded like a less resolving, mid-focused-only version of the SR1a. Warm and silky mids and they are great at what they are good at, but still somewhat situational. They give you 70-80% of the complete presentation as opposed to 85%-95%'ish with the Abyss. I haven't tried anything that have been able to match the TCs in this area. I mean, the LCD-5 is quite intriguing and variety is the spice of life, but I'm almost certain they will fall a distant second to my beloved 1266s - especially with the CFA3.

The longer I stay in this hobby the more I chase accuracy, neutrality, clarity, detail, and dynamics. I'm not sure why. Just sounds better to my ear.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Now this is interesting... Would you be so kind as to expand on why you don't like the Susvaras? I personally thought they sounded like a less resolving, mid-focused-only version of the SR1a. Warm and silky mids and they are great at what they are good at, but still somewhat situational. They give you 70-80% of the complete presentation as opposed to 85%-95%'ish with the Abyss. I mean, the LCD-5 is quite intriguing and variety is the spice of life, but I'm almost certain they will fall a distant second to my beloved 1266s - especially with the CFA3.
> 
> The longer I stay in this hobby the more I chase accuracy, neutrality, clarity, detail, and dynamics. I'm not sure why. Just sounds better to my ear.


It's well established I don't care for the Susvara limp dynamic nature. You equate them to an lite version SR1a, I equate them to a poor 009.
I've always and forever recommended my friends go big or go home. Skip the Susvara, go directly to 009 and DIY T2.

If you like that softer, encompassing presentation, I get it. It's not for me. I did the STAX thing, I'm a TC shill until the next FOTM.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I owned two Susvaras, and sold both.  Something thin/brittle sounding, and soft sounding.  Agree also with the word "limp".  I need more heft and more dynamics.


----------



## ken6217

rsbrsvp said:


> I owned two Susvaras, and sold both.  Something thin/brittle sounding, and soft sounding.  Agree also with the word "limp".  I need more heft and more dynamics.


Take 1 gallon of water, dissolve that little blue pill in it and let the Susvara sit for 2 hours, let them dry out, no more limp sound!


----------



## littlej0e

rsbrsvp said:


> I owned two Susvaras, and sold both.  Something thin/brittle sounding, and soft sounding.  Agree also with the word "limp".  I need more heft and more dynamics.





paradoxper said:


> It's well established I don't care for the Susvara limp dynamic nature. You equate them to an lite version SR1a, I equate them to a poor 009.
> I've always and forever recommended my friends go big or go home. Skip the Susvara, go directly to 009 and DIY T2.
> 
> If you like that softer, encompassing presentation, I get it. It's not for me. I did the STAX thing, I'm a TC shill until the next FOTM.



Interesting. I didn't get to try the Susvars for long, but I distinctly remember the mid-focus approach to sound. I don't remember the dynamics at all, so that is probably telling. Guess they are a hard pass for me as I couldn't live without dynamics at this point. I really hope 1266s aren't a gateway drug into a 2 channel speaker system...lol


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Take 1 gallon of water, dissolve that little blue pill in it and let the Susvara sit for 2 hours, let them dry out, no more limp sound!


Settle down, Morpheus.


----------



## Gizmo1k

littlej0e said:


> Interesting. I didn't get to try the Susvars for long, but I distinctly remember the mid-focus approach to sound. I don't remember the dynamics at all, so that is probably telling. Guess they are a hard pass for me as I couldn't live without dynamics at this point. I really hope 1266s aren't a gateway drug into a 2 channel speaker system...lol


Susvara are super amp picky, I'm hoping CFA3 unlocks the same or better than what AHB2 is able to.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Interesting. I didn't get to try the Susvars for long, but I distinctly remember the mid-focus approach to sound. I don't remember the dynamics at all, so that is probably telling. Guess they are a hard pass for me as I couldn't live without dynamics at this point. I really hope 1266s aren't a gateway drug into a 2 channel speaker system...lol


IMO the 1266 is the antidote of such a 2 channel system feign. Nothing gratifies the concession like the 1266 does. But yes, take the drugs, you know you want to.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Settle down, Morpheus.


I’m a little giddy. I’m on an adrenaline high thinking about my 800 mile round trip on my bike Friday.


----------



## rsbrsvp

For those using a preamp before the CFA-3- would the following preamp be a reasonable match (for some minimal tube effects) or not?

Tortuga Audio LDR3000x.V3 High Performance Preamp- avtive tube version​


----------



## ken6217

I still think to volume controls is not a good idea even if you max out the amp out. On the other hand maybe you’ll get what you’re looking for with a tube preamp even if it is not the ideal situation.


----------



## rsbrsvp

How about a tube buffer?  Tortuga offers one as well.


----------



## genefruit

rsbrsvp said:


> How about a tube buffer?  Tortuga offers one as well.


Should work with all the associated caveats related to source levels, number of outputs from your source(s), etc.  I have no experience with the brand.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I’m a little giddy. I’m on an adrenaline high thinking about my 800 mile round trip on my bike Friday.


HA. I started reading that as you were on an adrenaline high thinking about your 800 mile trip to Fred. About fell over. 🤣


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> HA. I started reading that as you were on an adrenaline high thinking about your 800 mile trip to Fred. About fell over. 🤣


That’s a different kind of giddiness. 

That giddiness will come in stages. It will start off as disbelief, then go into are you serious? Then on to I still don’t believe you, and then I’ll believe it when I see it, and then finally, let me look inside the box and and see if anything is really in there.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> That’s a different kind of giddiness.
> 
> That giddiness will come in stages. It will start off as disbelief, then go into are you serious? Then on to I still don’t believe you, and then I’ll believe it when I see it, and then finally, let me look inside the box and and see if anything is really in there.


The five stages of grief to being an audiophile.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> The five stages of grief to being an audiophile.


There’s waaaaay more than 5. 😂


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> There’s waaaaay more than 5. 😂


I am ever the optimist and you only listed five.


----------



## carlcs

kevin gilmore said:


> measured with the keithely 2015 high voltage thd meter and the james m king hpib software...
> 
> In Zero Feedback Mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.006% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.01db   10 hz to 3.7Mhz +0,-3db
> In SuperSymmetry mode with +/-24v power supplies, 16 watts rms balanced into 50 ohms with a Thd+N of <.003% 20hz to 20khz +0, -.02db  10hz to 300khz +0,-3db  with 10db of feedback



How do you get the power rating for other ohm ratings like 300 or 600 ohms?


----------



## genefruit

carlcs said:


> How do you get the power rating for other ohm ratings like 300 or 600 ohms?


This should give you some idea - https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.html


----------



## slumberman

Hello!
Anyone here using their CFA3 with Chord DACs and 1266? I am looking at this as an alternative to the XIAudio Formula S, which is a little over my budget...

Thanks!


----------



## carlcs

genefruit said:


> This should give you some idea - https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.html


So i can take the same voltage at 28.28


----------



## genefruit (Oct 16, 2021)

slumberman said:


> Hello!
> Anyone here using their CFA3 with Chord DACs and 1266? I am looking at this as an alternative to the XIAudio Formula S, which is a little over my budget...
> 
> Thanks!


I am but I've only had my CFA3 for less than 24 hours at this point.  I cannot compare it with the Formula S, as I've never listened to the Formula S.  My initial take on the CFA3 is very positive.  I had a seven hour session last night, slept four and am back at it again so far for another six hours today.  However, long sessions with the 1266 have never been a problem for me, fortunately.

Spec wise, the CFA3 leaves the Formula in the dust but whether you want/need this much power is dependent upon your use case.  Regardless, my OPINION is I'd be surprised if one purchased the CFA3 and was disappointed with the return on the spend.  If ultimately disappointed, you likely will find a seller's market for it.

Post script - my Benchmark HPA4 is now on the marketplace after a day with the CFA3.  The HPA4 is redundant solution at this point, considering efficient headphones can be driven directly by the DAVE, CFA3 for those that need moar power, and my coming soon DNA Stellaris to cover my tubey desires.


----------



## slumberman

genefruit said:


> I am but I've only had my CFA3 for less than 24 hours at this point.  I cannot compare it with the Formula S, as I've never listened to the Formula S.  My initial take on the CFA3 is very positive.  I had a seven hour session last night, slept four and am back at it again so far for another six hours today.  However, long sessions with the 1266 have never been a problem for me, fortunately.
> 
> Spec wise, the CFA3 leaves the Formula in the dust but whether you want/need this much power is dependent upon your use case.  Regardless, my OPINION is I'd be surprised if one purchased the CFA3 and was disappointed with the return on the spend.  If ultimately disappointed, you likely will find a seller's market for it.
> 
> Post script - my Benchmark HPA4 is now on the marketplace after a day with the CFA3.  The HPA4 is redundant solution at this point, considering efficient headphones can be driven directly by the DAVE, CFA3 for those that need moar power, and my coming soon DNA Stellaris to cover my tubey desires.


Thank you. This is really helpful!


----------



## rsbrsvp

I am very curious about the comparison of the CFA3 to the formula S, because if it can't beat the formula S (driving the TC) or if it surpasses it by only a marginal amount, than to my opinion there is no way it is worth it to me over the audio-gd HE-9 which I am confident is superior to the Formula S.


----------



## genefruit

rsbrsvp said:


> I am very curious about the comparison of the CFA3 to the formula S, because if it can't beat the formula S (driving the TC) or if it surpasses it by only a marginal amount, than to my opinion there is no way it is worth it to me over the audio-gd HE-9 which I am confident is superior to the Formula S.


https://www.head-fi.org/search/6759172/?q=formula&t=post&c[thread]=938064&o=date

@paradoxper may offer further details if you want to learn more.


----------



## ken6217

rsbrsvp said:


> I am very curious about the comparison of the CFA3 to the formula S, because if it can't beat the formula S (driving the TC) or if it surpasses it by only a marginal amount, than to my opinion there is no way it is worth it to me over the audio-gd HE-9 which I am confident is superior to the Formula S.


I’ve heard the Formula and PowerMan with the plan to purchase it, and I decided against it upon hearing it. I’m not saying it was bad, I’m saying it wasn’t as good as my Simaudio 600i V2 speaker amp. I recently borrowed a CFA3 from a local head-fi and was so impressed, that I listed the Simaudio for sale and had a CFA3 made for me.


----------



## jlbrach

genefruit said:


> I am but I've only had my CFA3 for less than 24 hours at this point.  I cannot compare it with the Formula S, as I've never listened to the Formula S.  My initial take on the CFA3 is very positive.  I had a seven hour session last night, slept four and am back at it again so far for another six hours today.  However, long sessions with the 1266 have never been a problem for me, fortunately.
> 
> Spec wise, the CFA3 leaves the Formula in the dust but whether you want/need this much power is dependent upon your use case.  Regardless, my OPINION is I'd be surprised if one purchased the CFA3 and was disappointed with the return on the spend.  If ultimately disappointed, you likely will find a seller's market for it.
> 
> Post script - my Benchmark HPA4 is now on the marketplace after a day with the CFA3.  The HPA4 is redundant solution at this point, considering efficient headphones can be driven directly by the DAVE, CFA3 for those that need moar power, and my coming soon DNA Stellaris to cover my tubey desires.


I agree with your assessment of the dave for easier to drive HP's...it actually is quite good...In terms of the formula s/powerman it was built for the abyss TC so obviously you dont NEED the power of the CFA3 but there are raves here


----------



## DJJEZ

ive been following this thread for a while and i think a CFA3 is in my future lol


----------



## littlej0e

genefruit said:


> I am but I've only had my CFA3 for less than 24 hours at this point.  I cannot compare it with the Formula S, as I've never listened to the Formula S.  My initial take on the CFA3 is very positive.  I had a seven hour session last night, slept four and am back at it again so far for another six hours today.  However, long sessions with the 1266 have never been a problem for me, fortunately.
> 
> Spec wise, the CFA3 leaves the Formula in the dust but whether you want/need this much power is dependent upon your use case.  Regardless, my OPINION is I'd be surprised if one purchased the CFA3 and was disappointed with the return on the spend.  If ultimately disappointed, you likely will find a seller's market for it.
> 
> Post script - my Benchmark HPA4 is now on the marketplace after a day with the CFA3.  The HPA4 is redundant solution at this point, considering efficient headphones can be driven directly by the DAVE, CFA3 for those that need moar power, and my coming soon DNA Stellaris to cover my tubey desires.


Congrats on getting the CFA3! Looking forward to your impressions, especially when you pair it with your tube preamp!


----------



## littlej0e

DJJEZ said:


> ive been following this thread for a while and i think a CFA3 is in my future lol


I’d be surprised if you ended up preferring the formula S + powerman over the CFA3. Should be a good shoot out though! I humbly suggest an external power supply with the CFA3.


----------



## Slim1970

DJJEZ said:


> ive been following this thread for a while and i think a CFA3 is in my future lol


Yep . If for no other reason than to hear one for myself, in my setup, with my own gear, in my own establishment. So many people can’t be wrong.


----------



## gikigill

Anyone compare the Beta 22 with the CFA? I have a broken B22 and considering fixing it or maybe getting the CFA.


----------



## DJJEZ

Slim1970 said:


> Yep . If for no other reason than to hear one for myself, in my setup, with my own gear, in my own establishment. So many people can’t be wrong.


Exactly and the price is great


----------



## paradoxper

genefruit said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/search/6759172/?q=formula&t=post&c[thread]=938064&o=date
> 
> @paradoxper may offer further details if you want to learn more.


I don't care for how the Formula S sounds. I would never buy one based on how it's designed, either.

Your money, your bias.


----------



## Currawong

Gizmo1k said:


> Susvara are super amp picky, I'm hoping CFA3 unlocks the same or better than what AHB2 is able to.


They need a power amp to really show what they are capable of. Though I'm finding them good out of the GS-X Mini. That being said, I'm wondering if I'll have the patience and persistence to build a CFA3, as I'd really like an amp that is a much scaled up version, more or less, of what the Mini is.


----------



## ken6217

Currawong said:


> They need a power amp to really show what they are capable of. Though I'm finding them good out of the GS-X Mini. That being said, I'm wondering if I'll have the patience and persistence to build a CFA3, as I'd really like an amp that is a much scaled up version, more or less, of what the Mini is.


That’s the beauty of the CFA3. It may be DIY but you don’t have to build it yourself. There are some excellent amp builders in this thread. I can attest to Dukei, as others can as well.


----------



## Failed Engineer

Is there a reputable US based builder?  Will Kerry commission builds?


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 18, 2021)

Failed Engineer said:


> Is there a reputable US based builder?  Will Kerry commission builds?


No need to worry about finding a US based builder. Finding a quality builder is far more important than geography. As @ken6217 said, I can also vouch for @Dukei. He built my CFA3 in Sweden and shipped to Colorado without issue.


----------



## ken6217 (Oct 18, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> No need to worry about finding a US based builder. Finding a quality builder is far more important than geography. As @ken6217 said, I can also vouch for @Dukei. He built my CFA3 in Sweden and shipped mine to Colorado without issue.


There are others on here that can chime in on the reputation of both build quality and as a person @Dukei

This quote from him yesterday will give you an idea of his character.

“Ken, I hate that this will come to an end in about a weeks time. Seems like this build/collaboration went by real fast.”


----------



## Gizmo1k

Currawong said:


> They need a power amp to really show what they are capable of. Though I'm finding them good out of the GS-X Mini. That being said, I'm wondering if I'll have the patience and persistence to build a CFA3, as I'd really like an amp that is a much scaled up version, more or less, of what the Mini is.


I enjoy your videos a ton. I agree with you gsx mini is capable of running them especially if you listen at lower db. I have a TOTL CFA3 on order my hope is that I prefer it over AHB2 as right now it’s kind of a one trick pony as Susvara is the only thing I prefer on AHB2. I’m really hoping I’ll be happy with with VC on CFA3 and a few other cans.


----------



## genefruit

Failed Engineer said:


> Is there a reputable US based builder?  Will Kerry commission builds?


I guess I'll pile on since @Dukei was great to work with and I'd be remiss not to note it publicly.  I've custom commissioned a few pieces in other hobbies over the years and I have to say his attention to detail, willingness to share his insight, responsiveness to communications, and end product receive high marks from me.  I wouldn't hesitate to work with him again.


----------



## paradoxper

Failed Engineer said:


> Is there a reputable US based builder?  Will Kerry commission builds?


You can message Kerry and ask. A couple have commissioned the CFA3 from him.

I've had KGSSHV, Carbon, DIY T2 built from Headinclouds, Birgir and Kerry and Dukei is as meticulous and a joy to deal with as the best.

US support is always available for servicing through the community if that is, in part, of consideration to your purchase decision.

Alternatively we're both fans of Doug of ECP just as well.


----------



## drc73rp

I am told my amp is in the final stages of testing and should be with me soon. It has been an unusually long process as my version is I believe the first of what will probably be many to follow from Dukei. I will share more when I get it, for now a sneak peak.


----------



## Gizmo1k

drc73rp said:


> I am told my amp is in the final stages of testing and should be with me soon. It has been an unusually long process as my version is I believe the first of what will probably be many to follow from Dukei. I will share more when I get it, for now a sneak peak.


Is it single chassis smt?


----------



## drc73rp

Gizmo1k said:


> Is it single chassis smt?


Yes,  single compact chassis using SMT. Those are amp boards direct mounted on the side panels.


----------



## Gizmo1k

drc73rp said:


> Yes,  single compact chassis using SMT. Those are amp boards direct mounted on the side panels.


Awesome I went the other direction. Dual chassis and every bell and whistle


----------



## drc73rp

Yup, it's great to be afforded different options and configurations when doing this build with Dukei. Whichever suits your needs or situation and still get essentially the same great amp.


----------



## ken6217

drc73rp said:


> I am told my amp is in the final stages of testing and should be with me soon. It has been an unusually long process as my version is I believe the first of what will probably be many to follow from Dukei. I will share more when I get it, for now a sneak peak.


Why didn’t you opt for an external power supply or internal with steel pot?


----------



## drc73rp (Oct 23, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Why didn’t you opt for an external power supply or internal with steel pot?


I was tempted to have an external GRLV but in the end it would stray from the objective of a compact build.  The tranny will have shielding in the final build (and the wiring will be tidied up).


----------



## ken6217

drc73rp said:


> I was tempted to have an external GRLV but in the end it would stray from the objective of a compact build.  The tranny will have shielding in the final build.


You certainly would’ve gone with all the balls and whistle‘s. No tranny in my build.


----------



## paradoxper

drc73rp said:


>


A few CFA3's are preparing to ship to very happy owners. Congrats!


----------



## ken6217 (Oct 27, 2021)

I had a nice surprise this afternoon. A box from Sweden. Shipped on Monday and got it today, Wednesday. Four day economy service and got it in two.

Unfortunately I won't have time to listen tonight, but here are a few pics and the excellent packing.

It was a pleasure to collaborate with Miroslav!


----------



## Gizmo1k

ken6217 said:


> I had a nice surprise this afternoon. A box from Sweden. Shipped on Monday and got it today, Wednesday. Four day economy service and got it in two.
> 
> Unfortunately I won't have time to listen tonight, but here are a few pics and the excellent packing.
> 
> It was a pleasure to collaborate with Miroslav!


Congratulations. It’s making me even more impatient for mine


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I had a nice surprise this afternoon. A box from Sweden. Shipped on Monday and got it today, Wednesday. Four day economy service and got it in two.
> 
> Unfortunately I won't have time to listen tonight, but here are a few pics and the excellent packing.
> 
> It was a pleasure to collaborate with Miroslav!


One down! Get some listening in soon.


----------



## vkenz

Finally got my CFA3 from Dukei.  Unpack it and hook it up to my Bartok and yup it sounds great.


----------



## ken6217

vkenz said:


> Finally got my CFA3 from Dukei.  Unpack it and hook it up to my Bartok and yup it sounds great.


Glad you like there amp. Dukei is great to work with as well.


----------



## paradoxper

vkenz said:


> Finally got my CFA3 from Dukei.  Unpack it and hook it up to my Bartok and yup it sounds great.


Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## Gizmo1k

vkenz said:


> Finally got my CFA3 from Dukei.  Unpack it and hook it up to my Bartok and yup it sounds great.


Pictures please. Congratulations.


----------



## vkenz

Gizmo1k said:


> Pictures please. Congratulations.


nothing much to see. it has a 4.4mm output.  😃.


----------



## littlej0e (Nov 24, 2021)

OK, boys and girls...here is the thunderdome redux between the WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS wires + fully upgraded tubes (hereafter referred to as the WA33) versus the custom CFA3 with an external power supply. I had a problem with mismatched voltage with my old DAC that skewed my results (see user generated increase in chromosomes leading to inaccurate results). Updated impressions are with my new "swingin' DACs like Jesus” Soulution 560. Full chain info is at the bottom.

*TL;DR: *generally speaking, the WA33 tended to outperform the CFA3 in the areas I think most people care about and given the difference in price...it damn well better. But this is not as simple as “X” is better than “Y”. Tube amps normally sound different than solid state and these two amps are no different. If you want amazingly open, warm, colored, effortless sound, and are willing to deal with tubes - the WA33 might be for you. If you like a more neutral, accurate, balanced, raw, uncolored, and impactful presentation and don't want to deal with tubes - the CFA3 might be for you. Both are excellent and will likely fit most use cases you can throw at them.

*WA33*
Gives more of a mid-forward presentation with the Abyss TCs. I suspect that's why so many people say it synergizes (*_shudder_*) so well with the TCs as they can sound a bit dry/hollow in the mids depending on what you put around them. Reminds me of sitting front row, center, in an enormous concert hall with instruments arranged in a horizontal line in front of you, resulting in slightly different levels relative to your position. The sound is very warm, sweet, elegant, open, effortless, smooth, and heavenly. It melts you into your chair like wax from a slow burning candle. The sound is so elegant and additive. Compared directly against the CFA3, the WA33 has:

Immensely bigger soundstage
Significantly more recessed presentation, especially vocals.
Significantly more space between instruments
Significantly more refined
Significantly better holographics/3D
Noticeably better resolution and detail
Noticeably better dynamics
Noticeably better musicality
Noticeably better separation
Slightly better sustain and decay
Slightly tighter overall sound, especially bass
*Favorite sonic feature: *_Woo sauce_. It adds this incredible sense of elegance and refinement that results in an exceptionally smooth presentation with fantastic musicality. Yes, it's artificial coloring, but it's easily some of the best I've heard.

*CFA3*
Provides an accurate, balanced, and full presentation. As if unplugged instruments were carefully placed in a semi-circle around you inside of a large garage, resulting in noticeably more balanced levels that seem to compliment the TCs _perfectly_.  The sound is neutral, uncolored, powerful, unapologetic, dangerous, and exciting. Like an accountant with a fanny pack full of meth - it's exciting _because_ it's unexpected and dangerous. Gun to my head, I'd say the CFA3 leans ever-so-slightly low, but it presents so evenly that it's incredibly hard to notice and only microscopically apparent on specific (likely poorly mixed) tracks. Compared directly against the WA33, the CFA3 has:

Significantly more forward presentation, especially vocals.
Significantly more accuracy
Significantly more neutrality
Significantly more balance
Noticeably greater impact, especially bass
Noticeably more bass quantity
Slightly better texture.
Slightly better clarity
Slightly lower noise floor
Ever-so-slightly better attack
More power - the Abyss TCs are easier to drive on low gain with mid-to-high volume
*Favorite sonic feature: *_balance_. The CFA3 provides a gloriously balanced presentation across the highs, mids, and lows without adding, removing, or coloring much of anything. It also sounds more true-to-life, especially paired with the _ridiculously_ accurate 560 DAC.

*Value:*
One amp costs 20k+ and the other around 3k. The value argument here is obvious and this probably isn't a fair comparison. I also doubt anyone considering buying a WA33 is all that concerned with value. That said, supreme kudos to Kevin Gilmore for designing this and Dukei for building it (pm @Dukei for custom builds - I can’t recommend him enough). The fact the CFA3 can compete with, and in some cases beat, an amp that costs 7 times as much is an unquestionable triumph of design, engineering, and construction. The price-to-performance of the CFA3 is legitimately _off the charts_, especially compared with many significantly more expensive commercial offerings.

*Better Together: Alternate Configurations (High Gain = HG, Low Gain = LG, Low Impedance = LI, High Impedance = HI, Volume = V): *
I tried the CFA3 together with the WA33 in numerous configurations. My two favorite and highest performing configurations are below along with the settings I used for each. The WA33 generally seemed to impart far more of its flavor as a preamp than the CFA3 did, so that's what I focused on. Please note that volume control and level matching were vitally important in every configuration. Going above 60'ish percent on one amp, especially on the CFA3, typically resulted in audible buzzing and/or unwanted feedback that seemed to increase linearly with volume.

*C*_*FA3 (HG, V@75%) + WA33 Preamp - dedicated preamp XLR inputs (LG, LI, V@60%):*_
Best of both amps with a more balanced overall presentation. It's a CFA3 with approx. 40% Woo sauce added (or a WA33 with less mid focus and more balance). Fairly balanced and supremely addictive sound.
Doesn't slam quite as hard as other configurations.
Slight hit to resolution, & detail.
My system pulls upwards of 600 watts with both amps (and everything else) running. Cooks my office like the 7th circle of hell in 30 - 45 minutes.

_*CFA3 (LG, V@40%) + WA33 Inline Preamp - front 3 pin ports on WA33 w/male-to-male adapter to rear XLR on the CFA3 (LG, HI, V@40%):*_
This configuration is truly something to behold. Leaves me in slack-jawed amazement every time.
Significantly more bass slam than any other configuration.
Bass hits so hard it can distort and drown out other frequencies, causing slight sonic imbalances
The stage is slightly more narrow with significantly more depth
The dynamics are catapulted through the roof. Just amazing...
The clarity, resolution, and detail are all phenomenal and razor sharp. It's the clearest, cleanest, and most resolving sound I've ever heard come out of the Abyss TCs. It reminds me of the SR1as with god tier low end. The SR1as still have a little better resolution, mids, and highs, but this configuration definitely makes me miss the SR1as far less (see not at all).
The overall presentation is a bit looser, especially in the low end.
Strangely V-shaped sound. The mids in general are significantly thinner, regardless of the impedance set on the WA33. Seemed to be slightly track dependent, but still a very clear and annoying trend.
My system pulls upwards of 600 watts with both amps (and everything else) running. Cooks my office like the 7th circle of hell in 30 - 45 minutes.

*Testing:*
I A/B tested between the CFA3 and WA33 for approx 35 hours during multiple morning, afternoon, and late night listening sessions. I also brought in my wife, mother-in-law, brother-in-law, and friend for blind A/B testing to compare my results an get a notional baseline with "average" listeners. During semi-random 30 minute listening sessions, _every_ user preferred the WA33 in _every_ instance. This was quite different from my first round of testing with the Schitt Modi 2 DAC where users initially preferred the "excitement" of the CFA3 before eventually preferring the WA33 the longer the sessions went on.

The CFA3 was most often described as "real sounding", but also "kind of black and white" and "dry" by comparison
Emotional responses were significantly more frequent with the WA33
Users seemed to particularly enjoy the staging of the WA33, "it sounds so open, like you are in a great big room."
Amp preference was clearly dependent on the other components in my system and it is obvious the 560 DAC played a very significant role in what amp users preferred. As a result, I suspect the CFA3 + 560 combo may be too dry, clinical, accurate, and neutral sounding for most, while the WA33 + 560 combo will likely be much more agreeable for the average audiophile.
For $hits and giggles, I let my friend and brother-in-law listen to the CFA3 + WA33 inline preamp combo. The immediate feedback was, "whoa...what the hell did you just do?!? This is _amazing!!!_" along with my personal favorite, "pretty sure I can hear this guy's nose hair". There you have it.
*Notes: *

I ended up selling my WA33 + tubes to a couple of fellow head-fi'ers, despite it being the subjectively (and possibly objectively) better overall amplifier. I did this for four reasons:
Synesthesia. The CFA3 amp together with the 560 DAC and Abyss TCs gives me more frequent triggers. I'm not sure why exactly, but I think it has to do with frequency balance. This setup also turned me into a full-blown string wh0re. Albums like Jenny Oaks Baker's "Classic: The Rock Album" and Low Strung's "Low Strung" do things to me I lack the vocabulary to explain.
Balance. I vastly underestimated how much balance would affect both my synesthesia and overall listening enjoyment. Everything else sounds "wrong," "off," or "unbalanced" now. I would love to see a frequency response and/or harmon target graph of the TCs together with the CFA3. I don't think I've ever heard a more wonderfully balanced pairing.
Use Case. See number 1 above. I built my system to serve as a "synesthesia-triggering sex box" - not for pure sonic performance or general listening pleasure. Therefore, my preferences will almost certainly contradict yours. I also have precious little time to enjoy my system and can't justify keeping multiple sets of headphones, amps, etc. around that will realistically never get used.
Money. See number 3 above. I couldn't bring myself to let 20k sit there collecting dust with almost zero use.

Based on my memory of auditioning the XI Audio Formula S (with powerman), I think the CFA3 would beat it handily. But I haven't directly compared the two.
Please be careful buying or using the CFA3 for or with headphones other than the Abyss TCs as this may not result the same supremely balanced presentation. I suspect the CFA3 just so happens to pair exceptionally (see stupidly) well with the TCs in particular. I have absolutely no experience or evidence to back up this wildly erroneous hypothesis.
*Conclusion: *
Neither the CFA3 or the WA33 are for everyone, but I do think most would prefer the sound and performance of the WA33. I should also point out that the WA33 seemed to scale a bit better with the higher end DACs. I can't say this definitively as I wasn't able to try the CFA3 with every high end DAC I tried, but that did seem to be the general trend. However, If you are one of the few mentally stable people in this hobby and have no desire to wander into the TOTL of TOTL territory, I think you’ll be hard pressed to beat the CFA3 without laying down somewhere between 3 and 10 times the money. The CFA3 really is a hidden gem and is probably _the_ amp that most cost conscious TC owners should be buying. That said, my personal favorite sound was using both amps together with WA33 as an inline preamp. Despite the thinner mids, the sonic performance was flat out astounding. If you could somehow tweak out the thinner mids, I think this configuration would legitimately drop jaws - even those of seasoned audiophiles. Consequently, I suspect with the right tube preamp the CFA3 (or a similarly high performing SS amp) could get remarkably close to, if not beat, the WA33 in many ways. But keep in mind you'll still have to shell out some money for a good tube preamp and tubes.

To come to a point, if you love tubes and lack the time, knowledge, and/or patience to build your own "mad scientist" rig AND you have tons of disposable income - you're probably better off getting a WA33. If you love solid state and want a more budget friendly, highly capable, tweakable, and versatile setup - you may want to consider getting a CFA3. Pairing the CFA3 with a good tube preamp would likely get you 90% of the way to a WA33...or past it depending on your tweaks and component selections. As always, YMMV.

*Audio Chain:*

_Headphones_
Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC (pads at 3 and 9 o'clock, toed in approx. 15 degrees) > JPS labs Dual 3-pin XLR superconductor (10ft)

_Amplifier(s) _
Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS wiring (1 x TA-274B Takatsuki rectifier, 4 x KR Audio 2A3 HP power, and 4 x 6C45Pi Electro-Harmonix Gold-pin driver tubes) > Tara Labs "The One" Power Cable (5ft) > Tara Labs “The 0.8 XL” w/HFX Ground Station XLR
CFA3 w/external power supply > Tara Labs "The One" Power Cable (5ft) > Tara Labs “The 0.8 XL” w/HFX Ground Station XLR

_Digital-to-Analog Converter_
Soulution 560 DAC > Tara Labs "The Cobalt" Power Cable (3ft) > Nordost Tyr 2 USB 2.0 A-to-B

_Source(s)_
Mac Mini 2018 under Roon (locally stored music) w/custom power module and TeraDak Power Supply > Tara Labs "The One" Power Cable  (6ft)
Custom mini-ITX streamer with Window Server 2019 under foobar2000/Roon (locally stored music) w/HDPLex Power Supply > Tara Labs "The One" Power Cable (6ft)
Custom Pareto Audio streamer with AudioLinux under Roon (locally stored music) w/HDPLex Power Supply > Tara Labs "The One" Power Cable (6ft)

_Power_
PS Audio PowerPlant 20 Regenerator (used for all components) > Tara Labs "The Cobalt" Power Cable (2ft)

Hope this helps you build, discover, or otherwise enjoy your system.

- lj

P.S. I just wanted to take this opportunity to gratuitously use the word "balance" one more time. Bonus points to those brave enough to drink every time I used it...


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 23, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> OK, boys and girls...here is the thunderdome redux between the WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS wires + fully upgraded tubes (hereafter referred to as the WA33) versus the custom CFA3 with an external power supply. I had a problem with mismatched voltage with my old DAC that skewed my results (see user generated increase in chromosomes leading to inaccurate results). Updated impressions are with my new "swingin' DACs like Jesus” Soulution 560. Full chain info is at the bottom.
> 
> *TL;DR: *generally speaking, the WA33 tended to outperform the CFA3 in the areas I think most people care about and given the difference in price...it damn well better. But this is not as simple as “X” is better than “Y”. Tube amps normally sound different than solid state and these two amps are no different. If you want amazingly open, warm, colored, effortless sound, and are willing to deal with tubes - the WA33 might be for you. If you like a more neutral, accurate, balanced, raw, uncolored, and impactful presentation and don't want to deal with tubes - the CFA3 might be for you. Both are excellent and will likely fit most use cases you can throw at them.
> 
> ...


Great review.

Just to throw a wrench into this. The CFA3 sound can also be modified to some extent by the parts used. The CFA3 that I first heard, had all of the qualities that you detailed. However I didn’t care for some of its relentless qualities. After working with Dukei, he had suggested using Toshiba transistors as it would calm it down, and it did. My CFA3 gives me the perfect blend of sound.


----------



## Roasty

@littlej0e epic review as always. Very good flow with the relevant info and comparisons. Thanks for that! 

Now could you do a Volot vs CFA3 thanks haha *grin


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> OK, boys and girls...here is the thunderdome redux between the WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS wires + fully upgraded tubes (hereafter referred to as the WA33) versus the custom CFA3 with an external power supply. I had a problem with mismatched voltage with my old DAC that skewed my results (see user generated increase in chromosomes leading to inaccurate results). Updated impressions are with my new "swingin' DACs like Jesus” Soulution 560. Full chain info is at the bottom.
> 
> *TL;DR: *generally speaking, the WA33 tended to outperform the CFA3 in the areas I think most people care about and given the difference in price...it damn well better. But this is not as simple as “X” is better than “Y”. Tube amps normally sound different than solid state and these two amps are no different. If you want amazingly open, warm, colored, effortless sound, and are willing to deal with tubes - the WA33 might be for you. If you like a more neutral, accurate, balanced, raw, uncolored, and impactful presentation and don't want to deal with tubes - the CFA3 might be for you. Both are excellent and will likely fit most use cases you can throw at them.
> 
> ...


Impeccable review! And yes, tube preamp + CFA3 = heaven 😁


----------



## ken6217

normie610 said:


> Impeccable review! And yes, tube preamp + CFA3 = heaven 😁


Or the CFA3 Hybrid.


----------



## normie610

ken6217 said:


> Or the CFA3 Hybrid.


Is it out in the wild?


----------



## littlej0e (Nov 23, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Great review.
> 
> Just to throw a wrench into this. The CFA3 sound can also be modified to some extent by the parts used. The CFA3 that I first heard, had all of the qualities that you detailed. However I didn’t care for some of its relentless qualities. After working with Dukei, he had suggested using Toshiba transistors as it would calm it down, and it did. My CFA3 gives me the perfect blend of sound.


Absolutely spot on and good call on the Toshiba transistors! Sonics aside, this really is the true hidden strength of the CFA3 in my opinion - custom amps can do custom things. It can be almost anything you want it to be within the confines of the CFA3 design. Not sure how any commercial audio manufacturer could ever compete with that.

Maybe some sort of modular design like the MSB DACs with pre-approved 3rd party component manufacturers?!? Sort of like Audio as a Platform instead of a singular product.


----------



## ken6217

normie610 said:


> Is it out in the wild?


 Not yet.


----------



## decur

I,m excited,just got my fed-ex notice from dukei
another one to the usa😉


----------



## Gizmo1k

decur said:


> I,m excited,just got my fed-ex notice from dukei
> another one to the usa😉


Congratulations looks awesome. I hope you love it. So let us know what you think when you get it. Still waiting for mine.


----------



## decur

littlej0e said:


> Absolutely spot on and good call on the Toshiba transistors! Sonics aside, this really is the true hidden strength of the CFA3 in my opinion - custom amps can do custom things. It can be almost anything you want it to be within the confines of the CFA3 design. Not sure how any commercial audio manufacturer could ever compete with that.
> 
> Maybe some sort of modular design like the MSB DACs with pre-approved 3rd party component manufacturers?!? Sort of like Audio as a Platform instead of a singular product.


Yes,
i had dukei use some toshiba’s as well!


----------



## decur

Gizmo1k said:


> Congratulations looks awesome. I hope you love it. So let us know what you think when you get it. Still waiting for mine.


Yes,
will do!
i also have a riviera aic-10 inbound to me😜 i cant wait to compare


----------



## decur

Aic-10


----------



## rsbrsvp

Does anyone have a picture of the remote that comes with the CFA-3?

Also- for those who have a remote- does it work well?


----------



## genefruit

rsbrsvp said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the remote that comes with the CFA-3?
> 
> Also- for those who have a remote- does it work well?


No remote unless you pick a volume control that has a remote.


----------



## decur

rsbrsvp said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the remote that comes with the CFA-3?
> 
> Also- for those who have a remote- does it work well?


i had mine made with a motorized upgraded tkd pot
i will let you know when its up and running


----------



## decur

Here is the motorized pot


----------



## SeriousSid

rsbrsvp said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the remote that comes with the CFA-3?
> 
> Also- for those who have a remote- does it work well?


I have the remote and it works really well, although I’ve only used it from a couple of meters away. I don’t have a picture to hand but it is a very basic small 3 button affair. It does what it is intended to do.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Nov 26, 2021)

> SeriousSid said:
> 
> 
> > I have the remote and it works really well, although I’ve only used it from a couple of meters away. I don’t have a picture to hand but it is a very basic small 3 button affair. It does what it is intended to do.


Thanks....  Good info. to have as I am ordering mine soon and the remote functioning properly is VERY important to me.  I have passed up many highly rated amps because of no remote.  Sonics is the always the most important factor, but functionality is also very important to me.


----------



## SeriousSid

Indeed I’m far to lazy to get up or even reach out an arm


----------



## paradoxper (Nov 26, 2021)

rsbrsvp said:


> Thanks....  Good info. to have as I am ordering mine soon and the remote functioning properly is VERY important to me.  I have passed up many highly rated amps because of no remote.  Sonics is the always the most important factor, but functionality is also very important to me.


I'd recommend you avoid TKD as they just aren't very good. I'd go with Kevin and Kerry's digital attenuator. I used this in my DIY T2.


----------



## decur

paradoxper said:


> I'd recommend you avoid TKD as they just aren't very good. I'd go with Kevin and Kerry's digital attenuator. I used this in my DIY T2.


according to dukei,
he researched for 1 week to find a motorized controller that was small enough to fit inside the cfa3. there was many options that were just too big.
the tkd pot is an upgrade over the alps that comes standard...
not sure if you can fit a motorized digital remote volume set up...


----------



## buzzlulu

paradoxper said:


> I'd recommend you avoid TKD as they just aren't very good. I'd go with Kevin and Kerry's digital attenuator. I used this in my DIY T2.


Is this referring to TKD in general.....or just a motorized version?
Strange as Birgir is now using TKD in his Carbon CC due to unavailability of the Alps RK50
Kerry is using a RK50 in my T2......which I hopefully will have in about another month


----------



## paradoxper

buzzlulu said:


> Is this referring to TKD in general.....or just a motorized version?
> Strange as Birgir is now using TKD in his Carbon CC due to unavailability of the Alps RK50
> Kerry is using a RK50 in my T2......which I hopefully will have in about another month


This was pertaining to the motorized version. Otherwise I would recommend RK50, A-D and then TKD avoiding the lower Alps model.


----------



## geoffalter11

My CFA3 that is incoming has the TKD 10K Attenuator, recommended by Dukei.  I decided against the Khozmo.  Are you saying it isn't a good attenuator?


----------



## ken6217

geoffalter11 said:


> My CFA3 that is incoming has the TKD 10K Attenuator, recommended by Dukei.  I decided against the Khozmo.  Are you saying it isn't a good attenuator?


Dukei recommended that as well. 

I had looked at the RK50 but it wasn’t available anywhere at the time. it was also over $1k. I doubt it would have been worth it.


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> My CFA3 that is incoming has the TKD 10K Attenuator, recommended by Dukei.  I decided against the Khozmo.  Are you saying it isn't a good attenuator?


Yes,
the 10k tkd attenuator is what dukei recommended to me as well.
most stepped attenuator‘s ive heard,i find its too loud or too soft between steps and i must have a remote.
i have had tkd  pots in previous amps with no issues at all,and dukei tested my tkd pot for channel imbalance before shipping,and it is within spec.
All this being said,the alps rk50 is king…


----------



## geoffalter11

The RK50 is $1,000?


----------



## ken6217

geoffalter11 said:


> The RK50 is $1,000?


Google it. $1230.00 now.


----------



## geoffalter11

How much of a difference in the sound does it make?


----------



## driftingbunnies

if space wasn't an issue, i think having an AVC would be pretty cool in the CFA. 



geoffalter11 said:


> How much of a difference in the sound does it make?


volume control is one of the most destructive parts of the chain. it doesn't add anything but can definitely subtract from the sound.


----------



## geoffalter11

driftingbunnies said:


> if space wasn't an issue, i think having an AVC would be pretty cool in the CFA.
> 
> 
> volume control is one of the most destructive parts of the chain. it doesn't add anything but can definitely subtract from the sound.


Cool, so as long as it is working and properly with complete balance across both channels, good to go. Not at all worried, as Miroslav will make sure it is perfect.


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> My CFA3 that is incoming has the TKD 10K Attenuator, recommended by Dukei.  I decided against the Khozmo.  Are you saying it isn't a good attenuator?


I prefer Acoustic Dimension for stepped attenuators, however, yes, completely steer clear of Khozmo.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> I'd recommend you avoid TKD as they just aren't very good. I'd go with Kevin and Kerry's digital attenuator. I used this in my DIY T2.


Can Duki get a hold of this attenuator?


----------



## ken6217

rsbrsvp said:


> Can Duki get a hold of this attenuator?


Ask him.


----------



## rsbrsvp

ken6217 said:


> Ask him.


sounds good..


----------



## ken6217

Miroslav is a great guy to talk with. Very patient and very smart.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I am in touch with Duki.  I like him a lot.  I just figured that he probably watches this thread and may respond on behalf of all of us..


----------



## rsbrsvp (Nov 27, 2021)

Another option I am considering is to get the CFA3 with no volume control and to get a passive volume control with remote from Tortuga audio.  I would appreciate your comments if this is a good idea or not..


----------



## ken6217

rsbrsvp said:


> Another option I am considering is to get the CFA3 with no volume control and to get a passive volume control with remote from Tortuga audio.  I would appreciate your comments if this is a good idea or not..


Or a tube preamp


----------



## paradoxper (Nov 27, 2021)

rsbrsvp said:


> Can Duki get a hold of this attenuator?


You may contact Miroslav and correspond with Kerry.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Who is Kerry?


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> Who is Kerry?


Kerry is a community member whom is responsible for progressing Kevin Gilmore's digital attenuator.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Nov 29, 2021)

How can a digital attenuator be used on an amplifier when the signal is already at the analogue stage?


----------



## kevin gilmore

kerry's attenuator is an 8 bit quad relay switched attenuator in the same size package as a quad rk50.
same as my attenuator in a seriously shrunk all surface mount package.  not cheap


----------



## sahmen

kevin gilmore said:


> kerry's attenuator is an 8 bit quad relay switched attenuator in the same size package as a quad rk50.
> same as my attenuator in a seriously shrunk all surface mount package.  not cheap


So Kevin, which attenuator would you recommend for the CFA 3 as a "sweet spot" option that neither threatens to break bank nor to compromise anything important in the SQ department?


----------



## rsbrsvp

Can Kerry's attenuator be used with a remote?


----------



## Giru

rsbrsvp said:


> Another option I am considering is to get the CFA3 with no volume control and to get a passive volume control with remote from Tortuga audio.  I would appreciate your comments if this is a good idea or not..


Last time I spoke to Miroslav I made the same enquiry and he agreed that the CFA3 can be built as a power amp. I wanted to pair it with my tube pre. I think I'm gonna go for the same coz these days I'm really digging switching between my tube pre and digital volume control directly from my audio pc. 

Can't wait to get the funds arranged so that I can get my build going😅


----------



## rsbrsvp

I'm considering the audio-gd HE-1 tube version as the preamp.  Very affordable and they have superb quality and build.  I just wish it wasn't so big...


----------



## rsbrsvp

How do I reach "Kerry"?


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> How do I reach "Kerry"?


Offer a goat sacrifice.


----------



## rsbrsvp

No need for the sacrifice.  I found him.   No attenuators available for a while.  He is working on a prototype- but far away..

What's the next best- cost no object remote controllable volume control for the CFA3?


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 28, 2021)

rsbrsvp said:


> No need for the sacrifice.  I found him.   No attenuators available for a while.  He is working on a prototype- but far away..
> 
> What's the next best- cost no object remote controllable volume control for the CFA3?


Your right hand. I mean for the attenuator.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Your right hand. I mean for the attenuator.


Pretty sure he's looking into those automatic-strokers.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Pretty sure he's looking into those automatic-strokers.


Ah. The ones that never say no.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Nov 28, 2021)

rsbrsvp said:


> What's the next best- cost no object remote controllable volume control for the CFA3?


This is the current version of the 8 bit stereo balanced attenuator.  All surface mount.  3 x 2 x 1 inch. Fits just about anywhere.
Requires an arduino with programming, and 5 v power supply. 4 layer board. board file in the usual place.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Has anyone tried the LCD-5 with the CFA3?


----------



## genefruit

rsbrsvp said:


> Has anyone tried the LCD-5 with the CFA3?


@paradoxper has. I have as well, for two days, and they were returned.  Sound good but the comfort was so bad compared to my current (Abyss) and previous (Empyreans).  Carbon fiber doesn't give, so the only point of give is going to be pad compression.  Easy to drive out of my DAVE and sounded good through the HPA-4 and CFA-3.  I could see them being someone's "perfect" headphone if they can manage the comfort issue.  7 3/8 hat size.


----------



## paradoxper

genefruit said:


> @paradoxper has. I have as well, for two days, and they were returned.  Sound good but the comfort was so bad compared to my current (Abyss) and previous (Empyreans).  Carbon fiber doesn't give, so the only point of give is going to be pad compression.  Easy to drive out of my DAVE and sounded good through the HPA-4 and CFA-3.  I could see them being someone's "perfect" headphone if they can manage the comfort issue.  7 3/8 hat size.


Nods.

I, too, feel they are a surprising performer -- quite balanced but also uncomfortable. They lack any wow -- mid forward is a departure and competent resolution also a departure but they lack crisp extension.

I am a Abyss shill. Otherwise go STAX. Go stat.

Shrugs.


----------



## Kerry (Nov 29, 2021)

kevin gilmore said:


> kerry's attenuator is an 8 bit quad relay switched attenuator in the same size package as a quad rk50.
> same as my attenuator in a seriously shrunk all surface mount package.  not cheap


I've had this on the bench for a while now.





It does work, but I've got to do a little more fine tuning on the software.  The controller is built into the front plate and each of the two blue rings does two channels, so two rings gives a you quad for balanced stereo control.  So actually, half the size of a balance RK50.

It has a micro USB on top for programming and on the side is an I2C connector.  Power in is on the bottom.

It's on my list of things to finish


----------



## Kerry

paradoxper said:


> Offer a goat sacrifice.


Don't hurt the goats on my account


----------



## Dukei

That's a nice-looking attenuator Kerry


----------



## jlbrach

rsbrsvp said:


> Has anyone tried the LCD-5 with the CFA3?


given how well the dave drive the lcd-5 it seems to me as good as the CFA3 is it would be overkill


----------



## rsbrsvp

I'm not the type who owns 5 amps- each one tuned for a different headphone.  I'm ordering my CFA3 for all my headphones.  All right now is just the TC. My LCD-5 arrives in a few days.  If the CFA3 is overkill- then let it be.


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> I'm not the type who owns 5 amps- each one tuned for a different headphone.  I'm ordering my CFA3 for all my headphones.  All right now is just the TC. My LCD-5 arrives in a few days.  If the CFA3 is overkill- then let it be.


I have a similar but wonderful conundrum.  My Radiante 1706 and Auteur do not need the 16 watts my CFA3 will be providing.  My Code X will absolutely love it.  However, I have a feeling that Miroslav has built me something that will make everything I connect to it sound better.  And I am currently still in a love affair with my Cembalo Spring 1. So, I am going to have 2 badass amps of different design that will hopefully blow me away.  I have no reason to think otherwise.  Plus, the addition of the CFA3 could provide a welcome shake up of my headphone stable.  

Thinking D8K Pro or TC as my next addition to accommodate both.


----------



## Giru

rsbrsvp said:


> I'm not the type who owns 5 amps- each one tuned for a different headphone.  I'm ordering my CFA3 for all my headphones.  All right now is just the TC. My LCD-5 arrives in a few days.  If the CFA3 is overkill- then let it be.


That's actually a sensible thing to do. I'm of a similar perspective. I already own a Violectric V281 and I'm very satisfied with the sound. However lately it's been also performing preamplifier duties and I kinda like it there even more😅
I think the CFA3 with its neutral-relaxed sound will be a nice upgrade/replacement.


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> given how well the dave drive the lcd-5 it seems to me as good as the CFA3 is it would be overkill


It’s not overkill. I think you have a poor comprehension of the amp. The tonality is different.


----------



## normie610

rsbrsvp said:


> I'm not the type who owns 5 amps- each one tuned for a different headphone.  I'm ordering my CFA3 for all my headphones.  All right now is just the TC. My LCD-5 arrives in a few days.  If the CFA3 is overkill- then let it be.


Don’t worry, it won’t be an overkill. CFA3 on low gain drives my LCDi4 IEM to perfection.


----------



## ken6217

If anyone is interested in a CFA3, I'm selling my almost new CFA3. It has Toshiba transistors. PM me.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

ken6217 said:


> If anyone is interested in a CFA3, I'm selling my almost new CFA3. It has Toshiba transistors. PM me.


PM'd.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> If anyone is interested in a CFA3, I'm selling my almost new CFA3. It has Toshiba transistors. PM me.


Eh. Are you doing a full system overhaul?


----------



## rsbrsvp (Nov 30, 2021)

I love headfiers.  We all talk about how much we love our equipment- and how it is the best we ever heard- yet we are selling the very equipment we are praising.

I'm guilty to;- not blaming anyone- but we are a bit illogical...  This is a nutty hobby.


----------



## genefruit

rsbrsvp said:


> I love headfiers.  We all talk about how much we love our equipment- and how it is the best we ever heard- yet we are selling the very equipment we are praising.
> 
> I'm guilty to;- not blaming anyone- but we are a bit illogical...  This is a nutty hobby.


Not to speak for the seller but having followed their posts, I believe it's being replaced with another CFA-3 with a tube preamp section.


----------



## littlej0e

genefruit said:


> Not to speak for the seller but having followed their posts, I believe it's being replaced with another CFA-3 with a tube preamp section.


Wow... Pretty genius idea. Especially if you could separate the SS amp and tube preamp functions and use them individually on the same device.

P.S. hope you are enjoying your combo. Would love to hear about it sometime!


----------



## rsbrsvp

genefruit said:


> Not to speak for the seller but having followed their posts, I believe it's being replaced with another CFA-3 with a tube preamp section.


I'm waiting for the tube hybrid myself....



littlej0e said:


> Wow... Pretty genius idea. Especially if you could separate the SS amp and tube preamp functions and use them individually on the same device.
> 
> P.S. hope you are enjoying your combo. Would love to hear about it sometime!


I'm asking Duki to include a switch to allow use of tube section, or SS without tube section.  He is looking into the matter.


----------



## genefruit

littlej0e said:


> Wow... Pretty genius idea. Especially if you could separate the SS amp and tube preamp functions and use them individually on the same device.
> 
> P.S. hope you are enjoying your combo. Would love to hear about it sometime!


Pure speculation based on what's been written in the thread.

My combo is still in the works.  Stellaris is supposed to arrive in December.


----------



## littlej0e (Nov 30, 2021)

rsbrsvp said:


> I'm waiting for the tube hybrid myself....
> 
> 
> I'm asking Duki to include a switch to allow use of tube section, or SS without tube section.  He is looking into the matter.


That is friggin' _awesome_! What an amazing amp that would be... My old iFi Pro iCAN used to be able to switch between tube and ss modes, so I assume it's possible (I really loved and still miss that functionality). But I'm guessing it would take some fairly serious engineering and build work to make a CFA3 that actually did both well without gimping either section in some way. The ultimate would be to have all three: tubes, ss, _and_ tubes + ss using either as a preamp.

/supermegaaudionerdporn



genefruit said:


> Pure speculation based on what's been written in the thread.
> 
> My combo is still in the works.  Stellaris is supposed to arrive in December.


I can't wait until you get it! Given my experience with the WA33 + CFA3, I'm quite interested to hear what you think of your combo.


----------



## geoffalter11

I, too am getting awfully excited for my CFA3 to arrive.  I can't wait to hear how it pairs with my Pontus II, Code X, and Radiante 1706.  I will most likely let my Auteur LTD Bocote go for a D8K Pro or TC.


----------



## ken6217

rsbrsvp said:


> I love headfiers.  We all talk about how much we love our equipment- and how it is the best we ever heard- yet we are selling the very equipment we are praising.
> 
> I'm guilty to;- not blaming anyone- but we are a bit illogical...  This is a nutty hobby.


I just happen to have a lot of nutty hobbies.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Eh. Are you doing a full system overhaul?


Once I sold my speaker amp, I had nothing to use for my two channel system. I was using it for double duty for my headphones and speakers. I have another set of 3 Levinson monoblock amps for my left, right, center, for my home theater and it's too much equipment all around. I decided to simplify the headphone and 2 channel system.


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> Not to speak for the seller but having followed their posts, I believe it's being replaced with another CFA-3 with a tube preamp section.


I will look at that down the road. I dont think Miroslav has that amp completed yet.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> I will look at that down the road. I dont think Miroslav has that amp completed yet.


my apologies for speaking out of turn.


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> my apologies for speaking out of turn.


No apologies needed


----------



## rsbrsvp (Dec 1, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> I will look at that down the road. I dont think Miroslav has that amp completed yet.


From what I know, it is not completed.  Misrolav is still working on the prototype and he is not sure it will sound good- so it may not even get off the ground....  I hope I did not get anyone overexcited....


----------



## ken6217

rsbrsvp said:


> From what I know, it is not completed.  Misrolav is still working on the prototype and he is not sure it will sound good- so it may not even get off the ground....  I hope I did not get anyone overexcited....


I had gotten that feeling as well.


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> I, too am getting awfully excited for my CFA3 to arrive.  I can't wait to hear how it pairs with my Pontus II, Code X, and Radiante 1706.  I will most likely let my Auteur LTD Bocote go for a D8K Pro or TC.


my cfa3 was supposed to arrive today,BUT fed-ex is holding the box captive in Germany due to "operational delays" bummer


----------



## ken6217

decur said:


> my cfa3 was supposed to arrive today,BUT fed-ex is holding the box captive in Germany due to "operational delays" bummer


Damn Omicron! Make sure that box has a mask.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> I love headfiers.  We all talk about how much we love our equipment- and how it is the best we ever heard- yet we are selling the very equipment we are praising.
> 
> I'm guilty to;- not blaming anyone- but we are a bit illogical...  This is a nutty hobby.


Few audiophiles especially on Head-Fi ever stick with gear for any relative long-term.


----------



## Pashmeister

paradoxper said:


> Few audiophiles especially on Head-Fi ever stick with gear for any relative long-term.


That’s why I love Tube Preamplifiers partnered with a good powerful solid state. Tube rolling is enough to scratch my itch most of the time, and it prevents me from amp rolling.


----------



## paradoxper

Pashmeister said:


> That’s why I love Tube Preamplifiers partnered with a good powerful solid state. Tube rolling is enough to scratch my itch most of the time, and it prevents me from amp rolling.


That's just called cheating the game.


----------



## geoffalter11

I’ve had the same amp for 16 months, longest I’ve ever owned a piece of gear. I might actually never sell it. But, I tend to constantly change it up too. Too many options. I suspect the CFA3 will stick around for a long time.


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> my cfa3 was supposed to arrive today,BUT fed-ex is holding the box captive in Germany due to "operational delays" bummer


Hopefully captivity will be short lived.


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> Hopefully captivity will be short lived.


It just arrived last thursday,
just setting it up now,all i can say is wow 🤩 
1st impressions are:
dead black background(no noise)
musical
plenty of power for suvara and my ab1266-tc
i wonder what break in will be like,and how many hours it will take?
a big thank you to dukei😌


----------



## geoffalter11 (Dec 11, 2021)

My CFA3 is in route. Cheers to Miroslav. He is a gentleman, a supreme talent, and an even nicer person.. if you haven’t worked with him yet, you need to. I can’t wait to listen to my CFA3. Soon enough. First pics before it left Malmo.

Such a beautiful amp inside and out.


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> It just arrived last thursday,
> just setting it up now,all i can say is wow 🤩
> 1st impressions are:
> dead black background(no noise)
> ...


Sounds wonderful. Can’t wait! Pics? Curious how your build looks.


----------



## paradoxper

Congrats, dudes.


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> It just arrived last thursday,
> just setting it up now,all i can say is wow 🤩
> 1st impressions are:
> dead black background(no noise)
> ...


What was total time for shipping? Mine is currently in Cologne Germany


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> What was total time for shipping? Mine is currently in Cologne Germany


2 weeks,total
it was supposed to be 1week transit time.
 my unit sat in cologne germany for 1 week,before it moved to the next fed ex location
im enjoying it now,playing thru my totaldac d1-direct dac
this is the best solid state headphone amp i have heard to date…
it is sooooo powerful


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> 2 weeks,total
> it was supposed to be 1week transit time.
> my unit sat in cologne germany for 1 week,before it moved to the next fed ex location
> im enjoying it now,playing thru my totaldac d1-direct dac
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I have complete and total DAC envy!!!!


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> 2 weeks,total
> it was supposed to be 1week transit time.
> my unit sat in cologne germany for 1 week,before it moved to the next fed ex location
> im enjoying it now,playing thru my totaldac d1-direct dac
> ...


Looks like you didn't get a gain switch on yours.  I had Miroslav put one on mine as I have 2 headphones that are too efficient for the CFA3 on high gain.  I can't wait to plug it in and give it a listen.  I will need to decide if the Auteur is staying in my stable, or whether I sell or trade for another Planar.  The Radiante is also extremely efficient, but I love it.  Plus, my other SS amp (Cembalo Spring 1) will not be going anywhere as I will never be able to replace it.  I am in between 3 headphones for the CFA3.  Can anyone in this thread give me some thoughts on which one will be best suited for the CFA3?

1. D8K Pro
2. LCD-4z
3. Diana V2 or TC.

I know I need to seriously look at the 1266 TC, but I had issues getting a seal when I demoed it last.  I must have an odd shape head...


----------



## genefruit

geoffalter11 said:


> I know I need to seriously look at the 1266 TC, but I had issues getting a seal when I demoed it last.  I must have an odd shape head...


I don’t believe anyone intentionally tries to get a seal with these. That’s part of the fit is to have it vent.


----------



## ken6217

geoffalter11 said:


> Looks like you didn't get a gain switch on yours.  I had Miroslav put one on mine as I have 2 headphones that are too efficient for the CFA3 on high gain.  I can't wait to plug it in and give it a listen.  I will need to decide if the Auteur is staying in my stable, or whether I sell or trade for another Planar.  The Radiante is also extremely efficient, but I love it.  Plus, my other SS amp (Cembalo Spring 1) will not be going anywhere as I will never be able to replace it.  I am in between 3 headphones for the CFA3.  Can anyone in this thread give me some thoughts on which one will be best suited for the CFA3?
> 
> 1. D8K Pro
> 2. LCD-4z
> ...


The gain switch is probably internal like it was with mine. 3 settings. Jumpers.


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> I don’t believe anyone intentionally tries to get a seal with these. That’s part of the fit is to have it vent.


Seals are for Tupperware, not for TC’s.


----------



## geoffalter11

ken6217 said:


> Seals are for Tupperware, not for TC’s.


okie dokie


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> Looks like you didn't get a gain switch on yours.  I had Miroslav put one on mine as I have 2 headphones that are too efficient for the CFA3 on high gain.  I can't wait to plug it in and give it a listen.  I will need to decide if the Auteur is staying in my stable, or whether I sell or trade for another Planar.  The Radiante is also extremely efficient, but I love it.  Plus, my other SS amp (Cembalo Spring 1) will not be going anywhere as I will never be able to replace it.  I am in between 3 headphones for the CFA3.  Can anyone in this thread give me some thoughts on which one will be best suited for the CFA3?
> 
> 1. D8K Pro
> 2. LCD-4z
> ...


My unit has jumpers inside for gain,that being said,i bought this amp to pair with my hifiman susvara and abyss ab1266-tc
so high gain for me,especially because my d1-direct only outputs 1.6v
even on high gain,there is plenty of volume…
There is no need for me to change the gain…
while the susvara sounds very nice with the cfa3,the ab1266-tc is a match made in heaven with cfa3,i find it a perfect pairing.
i have verite closed that i use in my bedroom with my naim unite atom he…
and i have diana v2 that i use portably with my cayin c9 portable
some day i will get around to trying them on the cfa3
also,my motorized tkd pot sounds great with the cfa3,no channel imbalance what so ever,im a happy camper😁
i have a mola mola tambaqui on order being built,that is supposed to ship 12/18 from europe that i will be using with my home stereo speaker setup.
but im looking forward to trying it with the cfa3 when it arrives


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Seals are for Tupperware, not for TC’s.


No stinkin' seals allowed.


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> My unit has jumpers inside for gain,that being said,i bought this amp to pair with my hifiman susvara and abyss ab1266-tc
> so high gain for me,especially because my d1-direct only outputs 1.6v
> even on high gain,there is plenty of volume…
> There is no need for me to change the gain…
> ...


I don't think my CFA3 has jumpers.  Honestly, I don't know what that means.  That is so rare for a DAC to output less than 2volts these days.  They all seem to be going higher and higher.  My Spring 1 was built to only receive 2v, so I use my Pontus II SE into my Spring 1.  However, I will use it balanced into the CFA3.

Are you excited for the Mola Mola?  I am interested to hear how you like it versus your TotalDAC?  I am also interested in your impressions of the Naim.  I have always wanted a Naim product.  They have such an amazing following and are known for being the Kinds of PRAT.  You have a great set up.  Enjoy!!!!


----------



## ken6217

geoffalter11 said:


> I don't think my CFA3 has jumpers.  Honestly, I don't know what that means.  That is so rare for a DAC to output less than 2volts these days.  They all seem to be going higher and higher.  My Spring 1 was built to only receive 2v, so I use my Pontus II SE into my Spring 1.  However, I will use it balanced into the CFA3.
> 
> Are you excited for the Mola Mola?  I am interested to hear how you like it versus your TotalDAC?  I am also interested in your impressions of the Naim.  I have always wanted a Naim product.  They have such an amazing following and are known for being the Kinds of PRAT.  You have a great set up.  Enjoy!!!!


I’m assuming they should sound like as different as night day, after owning a d1-six.


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> I don't think my CFA3 has jumpers.  Honestly, I don't know what that means.  That is so rare for a DAC to output less than 2volts these days.  They all seem to be going higher and higher.  My Spring 1 was built to only receive 2v, so I use my Pontus II SE into my Spring 1.  However, I will use it balanced into the CFA3.
> 
> Are you excited for the Mola Mola?  I am interested to hear how you like it versus your TotalDAC?  I am also interested in your impressions of the Naim.  I have always wanted a Naim product.  They have such an amazing following and are known for being the Kinds of PRAT.  You have a great set up.  Enjoy!!!!


The jumpers,are small plastic plugs for both left and right chanels that you manually remove for high gain or change positions for medium/lowgain
also,by having this switching as jumpers,there is no switch in the sigNal path
    the totaldac d1-direct having a 1.6v output is due to having no output stage in the dac the output comes right from the ladder direct.
less in the signal chain = more music into your ears 
as far as mola mola vs totaldac  both great dac’s very similar that they are both very analog sounding,but 2 completely different approaches
bill parrish from gtt audio the usa distributer in new jersey sent me his loaner to try and i really enjoyed the synergy with my vinnie rossi preamp/mono blocks and my gamut rs5i speakers.
the total dac is more laid back,kick back and enjoy,while the mola mola tambaqui has me more on the edge of my seat and more exciting.
both really great,both very natural and organic,but 2 very different dacs for sure


----------



## decur

Here are the cfa3 jumpers pics


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> The jumpers,are small plastic plugs for both left and right chanels that you manually remove for high gain or change positions for medium/lowgain
> also,by having this switching as jumpers,there is no switch in the sigNal path
> the totaldac d1-direct having a 1.6v output is due to having no output stage in the dac the output comes right from the ladder direct.
> less in the signal chain = more music into your ears
> ...


Love it. Thanks for not assuming and taking the time to respond. I have read tons about both but have not heard either. 

Are you digital only or using a turn table with your two channel set up?


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> Here are the cfa3 jumpers pics


Cool…

Does mine have those jumpers? I know he put a gain switch on my front panel.


----------



## Dukei

Just to clarify regarding setting the gain directly on the boards versus using a switch on the front. I have recommended for those that don't rotate gear that often to have a "gain module" inside. As decur points out, it has 3 settings but could have a 4th setting as well if all three pins are shorted. This will give the lowest gain out of all combinations.

For the ones rotating through gear often it would be a hassle to open/close the cover every time a different headphone/source is used. Hence the high/low switch on the front.


----------



## geoffalter11

Dukei said:


> Just to clarify regarding setting the gain directly on the boards versus using a switch on the front. I have recommended for those that don't rotate gear that often to have a "gain module" inside. As decur points out, it has 3 settings but could have a 4th setting as well if all three pins are shorted. This will give the lowest gain out of all combinations.
> 
> For the ones rotating through gear often it would be a hassle to open/close the cover every time a different headphone/source is used. Hence the high/low switch on the front.


 beautiful


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> Love it. Thanks for not assuming and taking the time to respond. I have read tons about both but have not heard either.
> 
> Are you digital only or using a turn table with your two channel set up?


Digital & analog
here is my palmer turntable with dynavector xx2 cart


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> Digital & analog
> here is my palmer turntable with dynavector xx2 cart


I have system envy!  Your system sounds and looks amazing... So cool!

My CFA3 is hanging out in Cologne, Germany.  I hope they get a good listen before sending it on.  Maybe they can burn it a bit more while they are holding onto it.


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> I have system envy!  Your system sounds and looks amazing... So cool!
> 
> My CFA3 is hanging out in Cologne, Germany.  I hope they get a good listen before sending it on.  Maybe they can burn it a bit more while they are holding onto it.


Next fed ex stop is meer,netherlands for a few days,then next stop is dulles,va usa
a bit of a bumpy ride from 0-48 hours break in
my unit is starting to settle down now


----------



## Slim1970

decur said:


> Next fed ex stop is meer,netherlands for a few days,then next stop is dulles,va usa
> a bit of a bumpy ride from 0-48 hours break in
> my unit is starting to settle down now


Can you give more details about the ”bumpy ride” you are referring to?


----------



## decur

Slim1970 said:


> Can you give more details about the ”bumpy ride” you are referring to?





Slim1970 said:


> Can you give more details about the ”bumpy ride” you are referring to?


refering to the burn in process
going from a little congested,to some fatiguing highs and closed in,as the caps break in
at 50 hours things are settling in very nicely.
the treble has smoothed out,soundstage is opening up nicely,and congestion is gone…
   also,my susvara’s headphone is really sounding great now with break in,and are equal to my ab1266 tc in synergy.
this amp is so very transparent,you really can hear good or how bad your upstream equiptment is….


----------



## decur

Also,
during the 1st couple days,the bass impact came,went,then came back again


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> Also,
> during the 1st couple days,the bass impact came,went,then came back again


Thank you for the feedback.  I look forward to listening to it all the way through burn in.  I love to hear how it changes... Getting pretty excited~ Holidays = Shipping Nightmares.


----------



## geoffalter11 (Dec 15, 2021)

decur said:


> Next fed ex stop is meer,netherlands for a few days,then next stop is dulles,va usa
> a bit of a bumpy ride from 0-48 hours break in
> my unit is starting to settle down now


Still in Cologne. Miroslav thinks there are work stoppages and protesting at these facilities inhibiting their ability to get products across the pond. Initially expected to receive today, now hoping it comes before the 25th. If I am being honest, it will most likely be after first of the year. Sitting with operational delays now for a week. Fun stuff. My current reference amp will have to do in the meantime. The CFA3 is going to shake some stuff up. Can’t wait!


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> Still in Cologne. Miroslav thinks there are work stoppages and protesting at these facilities inhibiting their ability to get products across the pond. Initially expected to receive today, now hoping it comes before the 25th. If I am being honest, it will most likely be after first of the year. Sitting with operational delays now for a week. Fun stuff. My current reference amp will have to do in the meantime. The CFA3 is going to shake some stuff up. Can’t wait!


yes,
my cfa3 sat in the cologne fed ex facility for 7 days due to "operational delays" then transferred to meer,netherlands facility for 4 days 
trust me,
it will be worth the waits cannot see how anyone could not love this amp.
it really is an incredible bargain, compared to most commercial amps I've heard...
what source are you planning on using with it?


----------



## ken6217

Mine must’ve been a fluke. He shipped it on Monday and I got it on Wednesday in New Jersey.


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> yes,
> my cfa3 sat in the cologne fed ex facility for 7 days due to "operational delays" then transferred to meer,netherlands facility for 4 days
> trust me,
> it will be worth the waits cannot see how anyone could not love this amp.
> ...


Oh, I am not worried. It will come when it comes. I agree it will be fantastic.

My source will be Roon Labs, a USBe Perfect from Core Technologies into a Denafrips Pontus II. I love this DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

Let's hope delivery picks up. I just placed an order from Jonkoping, Sweden and it's moving to the states without delay.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> Let's hope delivery picks up. I just placed an order from Jonkoping, Sweden and it's moving to the states without delay.


I guess I don’t have your shipping karma!!!


----------



## paradoxper (Dec 15, 2021)

geoffalter11 said:


> I guess I don’t have your shipping karma!!!


We'll see. I always get my packages in 3 days. Jonkoping > Malmo > Cologne, Germany and then Louisville.


----------



## bfin3

I know this is going to sound crazy but a few months after I got mine the 1.8A fuse blew. Miroslav recommended I replace it with a 2A so I did, just a generic cheap fuse. It got me thinking about fuses and I went ahead and replaced it with the SR orange fuse. Now, I'm not condoning charging $160 for a fuse, but it actually does sound a little better.


----------



## geoffalter11 (Dec 15, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> We'll see. I always get my packages in 3 days. Jonkoping > Malmo > Cologne, Germany and then Louisville.


And your latest package didn't get held up in Cologne?  Lucky, lucky, lucky!


----------



## geoffalter11

ken6217 said:


> Mine must’ve been a fluke. He shipped it on Monday and I got it on Wednesday in New Jersey.


How long ago?  The shipping lanes have blown up the past 4 weeks.  2 days from Sweden to Jersey is pretty sweet.


----------



## ken6217

geoffalter11 said:


> How long ago?  The shipping lanes have blown up the past 4 weeks.  2 days from Sweden to Jersey is pretty sweet.


October


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> And your latest package didn't get held up in Cologne?  Lucky, lucky, lucky!


I make frequent purchases sourced from either Jonkoping or Molndal.

This package was diverted Cologne for Castle Donington, United Kingdom.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> I make frequent purchases sourced from either Jonkoping or Molndal.
> 
> This package was diverted Cologne for Castle Donington, United Kingdom.


Still sitting in Cologne. Operational Delay. I will be happy if it arrives before New Years. Setting up my impatient, neurotic brain for a January receive. FedEx is a mess right now.


----------



## geoffalter11

ken6217 said:


> October


That seems hard to believe.  2 days is pretty epic.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> I make frequent purchases sourced from either Jonkoping or Molndal.
> 
> This package was diverted Cologne for Castle Donington, United Kingdom.


My FedEx tracking has removed the operational delay post, and now just says in transit.  Still in Koeln, NW, but progress.  Hopeful it will arrive before Christmas, but would take before New Years.  Actually, I will take whatever day it arrives....  9 long days in "operational delay"


----------



## jlbrach

maybe the customs people brought their HP's and have been listening to the amp?


----------



## sahmen

I am interested in how well the CFA3 drives the Susvara (and/or the Abyss TC) as compared to the competition in amps.  Opinions are welcome, as well as links to previous comparative reviews, either on head-fi or "elsewhere."

Your kind assistance is appreciated.


----------



## geoffalter11

jlbrach said:


> maybe the customs people brought their HP's and have been listening to the amp?


Haha. They can burn it in a bit for me


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Haha. They can burn it in a bit for me


I'm just going to overnight you my CFA3. How dare they ruin your holiday! 🤣


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> I'm just going to overnight you my CFA3. How dare they ruin your holiday! 🤣


My address is…😀


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> I am interested in how well the CFA3 drives the Susvara (and/or the Abyss TC) as compared to the competition in amps.  Opinions are welcome, as well as links to previous comparative reviews, either on head-fi or "elsewhere."
> 
> Your kind assistance is appreciated.


There are a lot of folks who can provide those impressions. The vast majority who own a CFA3 have either a TC, Susvara or both.

I might be he only one without either. My Code X will have to do…


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> There are a lot of folks who can provide those impressions. The vast majority who own a CFA3 have either a TC, Susvara or both.
> 
> I might be he only one without either. My Code X will have to do…


Code-X is better than the Susvara anyways!


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> Code-X is better than the Susvara anyways!


I concur. But it ain’t the TC!!!


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> I concur. But it ain’t the TC!!!


It is a hidden gem regardless, but nothing really can match the TC.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> It is a hidden gem regardless, but nothing really can match the TC.


Yes and we are two of the lucky few who still own one. I will never sell it.


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Yes and we are two of the lucky few who still own one. I will never sell it.


I'll wait for the day I have to bribe Luis out of retirement.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> It is a hidden gem regardless, but nothing really can match the TC.


How about the Torino Valkyria? Don't you own one?
​
​


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> How about the Torino Valkyria? Don't you own one?
> ​
> ​


I love the Torino headphones. Especially the Radiante 1706. Such a fun headphone.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> How about the Torino Valkyria? Don't you own one?
> ​
> ​


Different categorization. TC presents space, dynamic attack and resolution in a real physical manner, Valkyria is about reference timbre and tonal density but supports quite poor resolution for a headphone that costs $14k.


----------



## sahmen

geoffalter11 said:


> I might be he only one without either. My Code X will have to do…


Code - X? That sounds oooh so "cloak and dagger."  I hope you ain't trying to scare me      He-5 would sound a lot more friendly and benign.


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> Code - X? That sounds oooh so "cloak and dagger."  I hope you ain't trying to scare me      He-5 would sound a lot more friendly and benign.


Boo!  Code X has something special I haven't heard in very many headphones.  Tonality/timbre is near perfect.


----------



## Bhk1004

Hmm haven't been here awhile but really hope that hybrid prototype is real.. 

Now back to regular fedex tracking updates.


----------



## geoffalter11

Bhk1004 said:


> Hmm haven't been here awhile but really hope that hybrid prototype is real..
> 
> Now back to regular fedex tracking updates.


No more FedEx updates coming from me. My CFA3 is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. It moved from Operational Delay to being delivered from Cologne in 2 days. So Excited!!!


----------



## Gizmo1k

my cfa3 is complete and has been shipped and in the hands of @GoldenOne. he's got it warming up and will be giving some impressions and measurements hopefully eventually.

2-chassis solution, 10mm thick front on both. Black chassis/knob
- TKD 10K quad attenuator
- Matched octet of low noise JFET transistors for input.
- Matched small-signal transistors throughout the build
- Matched Toshiba output transistors
- Golden Reference +/-30V power supply and Elna Silmic capacitors, throughout the build.
- Low noise transformer 150VA, 115VAC
- Headphone Protector/Delay board
- Double shielded OFC wire (for signal)
- 5W non-inductive output resistors
- XLR inputs, 4-pin XLR output jack.
- Power switch on the front of external PSU
- Mains selector switch 115V - 230V
- RCA input/6,35mm jack
- Speaker taps + switch HP/SP


----------



## geoffalter11

My CFA3 arrived an hour ago.  First impression: It is huge.  I need an audio rack, it is taking up my entire desk.  haha... First and foremost, the biggest thank you to Miroslav. He is an absolute pro.  His build is impeccable; casing, etching, finishing touches are all top notch.  But, even more than how beautiful this amp is, Miroslav's integrity is even greater.  I can't speak enough to what a pleasure this process was and how happy I am to have embarked on this journey. My first time ever commissioning the build of an audio component, and hopefully not my last.  If you haven't worked with Miroslav yet, you need to.  You will not meet a finer individual.  Also, a big thank you to Cory for the recommend.  Cory, you were right and I am honestly on cloud 9.

Enough of that... The CFA3 sounds fantastic right out of the box.  It needs to warm up and open up a bit, but I can tell immediately that I will not need another SS amp anytime soon.  I will send some pics and impressions soon, but right now I just want to listen.  It has changed a lot in just the 30 minutes I have had it on and warming up.  At first vocals sounded really distant and the sound was really compressed, but already it is opening up.  Gonna be a fantastic holidays!  I have 8-10 days of very little work which will enable me to spend some time getting to know this beast of an amp.

Radiante's are sounding sublime!!!

Cheers!


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> My CFA3 arrived an hour ago.  First impression: It is huge.  I need an audio rack, it is taking up my entire desk.  haha... First and foremost, the biggest thank you to Miroslav. He is an absolute pro.  His build is impeccable; casing, etching, finishing touches are all top notch.  But, even more than how beautiful this amp is, Miroslav's integrity is even greater.  I can't speak enough to what a pleasure this process was and how happy I am to have embarked on this journey. My first time ever commissioning the build of an audio component, and hopefully not my last.  If you haven't worked with Miroslav yet, you need to.  You will not meet a finer individual.  Also, a big thank you to Cory for the recommend.  Cory, you were right and I am honestly on cloud 9.
> 
> Enough of that... The CFA3 sounds fantastic right out of the box.  It needs to warm up and open up a bit, but I can tell immediately that I will not need another SS amp anytime soon.  I will send some pics and impressions soon, but right now I just want to listen.  It has changed a lot in just the 30 minutes I have had it on and warming up.  At first vocals sounded really distant and the sound was really compressed, but already it is opening up.  Gonna be a fantastic holidays!  I have 8-10 days of very little work which will enable me to spend some time getting to know this beast of an amp.
> 
> ...


It's goin' down, Geoff! Finally. Congrats!


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> It's goin' down, Geoff! Finally. Congrats!


Code X + CFA3 = Bliss!


----------



## geoffalter11

Does this amp benefit from always being turned on, or is it meant to be turned off?  I know some amps are meant to always be on.  Case in point the PL HPA-1.


----------



## normie610

geoffalter11 said:


> Does this amp benefit from always being turned on, or is it meant to be turned off?  I know some amps are meant to always be on.  Case in point the PL HPA-1.


I always turn it off. Sounds fine 👍🏼


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> I always turn it off. Sounds fine 👍🏼


Sacrilege.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> Sacrilege.


I never turned off my Spring 1. I’ll play around


----------



## decur (Dec 20, 2021)

geoffalter11 said:


> My CFA3 arrived an hour ago.  First impression: It is huge.  I need an audio rack, it is taking up my entire desk.  haha... First and foremost, the biggest thank you to Miroslav. He is an absolute pro.  His build is impeccable; casing, etching, finishing touches are all top notch.  But, even more than how beautiful this amp is, Miroslav's integrity is even greater.  I can't speak enough to what a pleasure this process was and how happy I am to have embarked on this journey. My first time ever commissioning the build of an audio component, and hopefully not my last.  If you haven't worked with Miroslav yet, you need to.  You will not meet a finer individual.  Also, a big thank you to Cory for the recommend.  Cory, you were right and I am honestly on cloud 9.
> 
> Enough of that... The CFA3 sounds fantastic right out of the box.  It needs to warm up and open up a bit, but I can tell immediately that I will not need another SS amp anytime soon.  I will send some pics and impressions soon, but right now I just want to listen.  It has changed a lot in just the 30 minutes I have had it on and warming up.  At first vocals sounded really distant and the sound was really compressed, but already it is opening up.  Gonna be a fantastic holidays!  I have 8-10 days of very little work which will enable me to spend some time getting to know this beast of an amp.
> 
> ...


Congrats geoffalter11,
glad you recieved before the holidays,
let it break in.
i cannot stop listening to this amp with my susvara’s
so very addicting indeed
hands down,the best solid state headphone amp i have ever heard


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> Congrats geoffalter11,
> glad you recieved before the holidays,
> let it break in.
> i cannot stop listening to this amp with my susvara’s
> ...


Thank you thank you! Timing ended up perfect. If only I liked waiting…


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> Congrats geoffalter11,
> glad you recieved before the holidays,
> let it break in.
> i cannot stop listening to this amp with my susvara’s
> ...


How long did you break it in?


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> How long did you break it in?


It took about 50 hours to start opening up,smoothing out
i have around 150 hours now,and it is still improving,becoming clearer and more musical
the biggest shocker for me,is finally hearing what the susvara’s are capable of.
i have not tried my zmf verite closed yet.
saving them for this weekend to try…


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> It took about 50 hours to start opening up,smoothing out
> i have around 150 hours now,and it is still improving,becoming clearer and more musical
> the biggest shocker for me,is finally hearing what the susvara’s are capable of.
> i have not tried my zmf verite closed yet.
> saving them for this weekend to try…


Good to know. I haven’t tried my Auteur yet either. Tomorrow! Or maybe I will stay up all night.


----------



## sahmen (Dec 24, 2021)

Still waiting for the CFA3/Volot comparo or face/off especially with regard to their individual ability to drive the Susvara, and I'll finally see some "light" at the tunnel... For me, this would be like a "winner" takes all match-up, and I would like to see the last amp standing (between these two contenders) after a good knock-down drag out brawl of a  shootout (Keep in mind that I am just speaking of an ordinary old school shootout, in spite of the slightly colorful language)... 

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like these two amps have ever been in one enthusiast's possession at the same time (correct me if I am wrong), to allow a comparative review and I wonder why.  Is the CFA3 less reviewed or less likely to be reviewed by the usual reviewers of HPs on the open market simply because the CFA3 is in the DIY camp?


----------



## Slim1970

sahmen said:


> Still waiting for the CFA3/Volot comparo or face/off especially with regard to their individual ability to drive the Susvara, and I'll finally see some "light" at the tunnel... For me, this would be like a "winner" takes all match-up, and I would like to see the last amp standing (between these two contenders) after good knock-down drag out brawl of  shootout (Keep in mind that I am just speaking of an ordinary old school shootout, in spite of the slightly colorful language)...
> 
> Unfortunately, it doesn't look like these two amps have ever been in one enthusiast's possession at the same time (correct me if I am wrong), to allow a comparative review and I wonder why.  Is the CFA3 less reviewed or less likely to be reviewed by the usual reviewers of HPs on the open market simply because the CFA3 is in the DIY camp?


This would a great battle. Same output but different topologies. It would be nice to hear about some of their differences from a sound standpoint.


----------



## vkenz

rooting for the cfa3… hehe.  lets get ready to rumble!!!!


----------



## paradoxper

I'm pretty done. The last piece is playing with a few tube preamps to mate/compare with CFA3 and try to coax better mating with Valkyria.
But I've simply heard too many amps and know 100% off the topology, the Volot will be a warmer less resolving presentation. Great value but not exceeding performance benchmarks.


----------



## geoffalter11 (Dec 24, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> I'm pretty done. The last piece is playing with a few tube preamps to mate/compare with CFA3 and try to coax better mating with Valkyria.
> But I've simply heard too many amps and know 100% off the topology, the Volot will be a warmer less resolving presentation. Great value but not exceeding performance benchmarks.


Done as in kaput?


----------



## geoffalter11

Slim1970 said:


> This would a great battle. Same output but different topologies. It would be nice to hear about some of their differences from a sound standpoint.


Output is slightly different.  Volot is 16 watts into 32 ohms, CFA3 is 16 watts into 50 ohms.  Potato Patato...


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Done as in kaput?


Also as in bored and satisfied. I also still primarily listen to speakers. However, the pre tube rolling is definitely keeping me busy.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> However, the pre tube rolling is definitely keeping me busy.


Let us know which one you’ll end up with


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> Still waiting for the CFA3/Volot comparo or face/off especially with regard to their individual ability to drive the Susvara, and I'll finally see some "light" at the tunnel... For me, this would be like a "winner" takes all match-up, and I would like to see the last amp standing (between these two contenders) after good knock-down drag out brawl of  shootout (Keep in mind that I am just speaking of an ordinary old school shootout, in spite of the slightly colorful language)...
> 
> Unfortunately, it doesn't look like these two amps have ever been in one enthusiast's possession at the same time (correct me if I am wrong), to allow a comparative review and I wonder why.  Is the CFA3 less reviewed or less likely to be reviewed by the usual reviewers of HPs on the open market simply because the CFA3 is in the DIY camp?


I don't own a Volot.  But, I do own a Cembalo Spring 1.  Kind of rare around these parts, but an insanely good amp.  Cembalo is no longer and I have looked far and wide and can't find anyone else with this amp.  I have done some comparisons against the CFA3.  The CFA3 is a more complete amp.  It is extremely balanced through the FR, especially in the lower registers and the way it transitions out of the midrange into the lower treble.  It is extremely articulate, clean and absent of any glare.  So is the Spring 1, which is powerful, clean and oh so musical.  The Spring 1 is the most dynamic amp I have heard up until the CFA3.  I absolutely love the Spring 1.  The biggest difference between them is the size of the soundstage.  The soundstage on the CFA3 has an enormous amount of depth both left to right and front to back to my ears. The Spring 1 is more closed in which gives the midrange an immediacy that I find quite fetching.  Not better or worse, just different.  However, the CFA3 is simply better.  I am glad that I own both, but I think I will find myself listening to the CFA3 more and more.  I have owned the Spring 1 for 18 months and it has been my main amp for the entire time.  I know it inside and out.  I am still learning the CFA3's charms.  The Spring 1 is not the Volot, but has enough of the goods to be part of the conversation.


----------



## sahmen

geoffalter11 said:


> I don't own a Volot.  But, I do own a Cembalo Spring 1.  Kind of rare around these parts, but an insanely good amp.  Cembalo is no longer and I have looked far and wide and can't find anyone else with this amp.  I have done some comparisons against the CFA3.  The CFA3 is a more complete amp.  It is extremely balanced through the FR, especially in the lower registers and the way it transitions out of the midrange into the lower treble.  It is extremely articulate, clean and absent of any glare.  So is the Spring 1, which is powerful, clean and oh so musical.  The Spring 1 is the most dynamic amp I have heard up until the CFA3.  I absolutely love the Spring 1.  The biggest difference between them is the size of the soundstage.  The soundstage on the CFA3 has an enormous amount of depth both left to right and front to back to my ears. The Spring 1 is more closed in which gives the midrange an immediacy that I find quite fetching.  Not better or worse, just different.  However, the CFA3 is simply better.  I am glad that I own both, but I think I will find myself listening to the CFA3 more and more.  I have owned the Spring 1 for 18 months and it has been my main amp for the entire time.  I know it inside and out.  I am still learning the CFA3's charms.  The Spring 1 is not the Volot, but has enough of the goods to be part of the conversation.


So how would you describe the bass on the CFA3? Does it have presence, texture, and slam without sounding bloated or boomy? Conversely, do you detect anything "thin" about it, however remotely?


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> So how would you describe the bass on the CFA3? Does it have presence, texture, and slam without sounding bloated or boomy? Conversely, do you detect anything "thin" about it, however remotely?


Bass is extremely fast, tactile and defined. I can hear the pluck of the pick or fingers against the bass strings. It is not boomy or bloated at all. It is not a romantic or overly euphonic bass sound. I personally can’t stand midbass bloat or bloom. I find it slow and out of place. The CFA3’s bass is the best I have heard from an amp. Incredibly clean and realistic. If the song slams, it slams. It has all the subtlety I like in music.

In terms of thin, I wouldn’t say that either. It has a big soundstage so the midrange feels more like you are standing in front of the SBD at the Fillmore in SF versus standing in the first 10 rows. The amp is not very colored. Pretty neutral, glare free and balanced.


----------



## sahmen (Dec 24, 2021)

geoffalter11 said:


> Bass is extremely fast, tactile and defined. I can hear the pluck of the pick or fingers against the bass strings. It is not boomy or bloated at all. It is not a romantic or overly euphonic bass sound. I personally can’t stand midbass bloat or bloom. I find it slow and out of place. The CFA3’s bass is the best I have heard from an amp. Incredibly clean and realistic. If the song slams, it slams. It has all the subtlety I like in music.
> 
> In terms of thin, I wouldn’t say that either. It has a big soundstage so the midrange feels more like you are standing in front of the SBD at the Fillmore in SF versus standing in the first 10 rows. The amp is not very colored. Pretty neutral, glare free and balanced.


Nice!  I felt like asking about the bass, because I just read someone's first impressions of the Volot, and the bass is the only aspect of the Volot that they're not completely thrilled with. He called the Volot in turns, "neutral in the bass,"  "not the best amp for bass impact," and saw this as the Volot's "one downside." 

I am ordinarily not one to jump to hard and fast conclusions after reading one person's impressions on head-fi about any component, but if I am being honest, reading that bit has cooled my interest somewhat in the Volot... I am no basshead, but I find bass/bass impact (or bass done right) to be almost religiously essential to any music listening experience...  It's one reason I have always stayed away from most e-stats, in spite of my genuine curiosity about them---It seems there are always some people who find bass in e-stat headphones to be "meh," no matter how great sounding they're reputed to be...


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> Nice!  I felt like asking about the bass, because I just read someone's first impressions of the Volot, and the bass is the only aspect of the Volot that they're not completely thrilled with. He called the Volot in turns, "neutral in the bass,"  "not the best amp for bass impact," and saw this as the Volot's "one downside."
> 
> I am ordinarily not one to jump to hard and fast conclusions after reading one person's impressions on head-fi about any component, but if I am being honest, reading that bit has cooled my interest somewhat in the Volot... I am no basshead, but I find bass/bass impact (or bass done right) to be almost religiously essential to any music listening experience...  It's one reason I have always stayed away from most e-stats, in spite of my genuine curiosity about them---It seems there are always some people who find bass in e-stat headphones to be "meh," not matter how great sounding they're reputed to be...


Understand what you are saying. I am not a basshead either, but love when the bass is perfectly rendered. I listen to mostly live music, so for me, I look for gear that recreates what a show or concert sounds like. The CFA3 does that impeccably well.


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> Nice!  I felt like asking about the bass, because I just read someone's first impressions of the Volot, and the bass is the only aspect of the Volot that they're not completely thrilled with. He called the Volot in turns, "neutral in the bass,"  "not the best amp for bass impact," and saw this as the Volot's "one downside."
> 
> I am ordinarily not one to jump to hard and fast conclusions after reading one person's impressions on head-fi about any component, but if I am being honest, reading that bit has cooled my interest somewhat in the Volot... I am no basshead, but I find bass/bass impact (or bass done right) to be almost religiously essential to any music listening experience...  It's one reason I have always stayed away from most e-stats, in spite of my genuine curiosity about them---It seems there are always some people who find bass in e-stat headphones to be "meh," not matter how great sounding they're reputed to be...


I would love to hear the Volot, but I suspect the CFA3 is the superior amp. My opinion is uninformed, though.


----------



## Drakkard

Does the protection board affect the sound? Anybody tested? My CFA does not have protection and seems I need it, it just burned a second time =( But I love the sound


----------



## geoffalter11

Drakkard said:


> Does the protection board affect the sound? Anybody tested? My CFA does not have protection and seems I need it, it just burned a second time =( But I love the sound


What do you mean burned?


----------



## Drakkard

geoffalter11 said:


> What do you mean burned?


I mean literal smoke comes out of it, heh.


----------



## Bhk1004

Did you build your own? I don't know of anyone without the protection board. Let us know how it goes if you end up testing it! Would be interesting to see if there is any difference.


----------



## Drakkard (Dec 25, 2021)

Bhk1004 said:


> Did you build your own? I don't know of anyone without the protection board. Let us know how it goes if you end up testing it! Would be interesting to see if there is any difference.


Mine is from Felitsa Audio. I doubt I will be able to remember the difference once it will be repaired and installed, but I'll try 
By the way, can someone sell me that board? Possibly it will be quicker than to order a custom one


----------



## paradoxper

Drakkard said:


> Mine is from Felitsa Audio. I doubt I will be able to remember the difference once it will be repaired and installed, but I'll try


That's a shame. Felitsa Audio has been flagged by the community for providing very, very bad builds. Your parts were likely swapped for something under spec which is why it's failed twice. You should look and sending it to an approved Gilmore community builder to evaluate what needs to be repaired with your amp.


----------



## Drakkard (Dec 25, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> That's a shame. Felitsa Audio has been flagged by the community for providing very, very bad builds. Your parts were likely swapped for something under spec which is why it's failed twice. You should look and sending it to an approved Gilmore community builder to evaluate what needs to be repaired with your amp.


Oh, sad to hear. My friend is an experienced builder, and he indeed found and corrected some problems with it.
I don't want to send it overseas, it is extremely expensive. But if someone experienced in CFA can look at the part used via photo and offer some suggestions I will appreciate it. Not sure who to ask however


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> That's a shame. Felitsa Audio has been flagged by the community for providing very, very bad builds. Your parts were likely swapped for something under spec which is why it's failed twice. You should look and sending it to an approved Gilmore community builder to evaluate what needs to be repaired with your amp.



Ahahaha.... Yeah. It's honestly a shame though, his aesthetic designs are usually quite on point.


----------



## kevin gilmore

the protection board protects the headphones from dc in case the amp lets loose, or you hook up a dac with significant dc output. it adds the impedance of a pair of relay contacts to the output, so something like 10 milliohms if you use a gold crosspoint relay. The grounding modifications on power supply wiring for the felista amplifier make no sense. why they keep blowing up i do not know, likely fake output transistors. buy empty chassis and have boards made from jlcpcb with the official gerber files and build yourself. then it won't blow up.


----------



## Drakkard

kevin gilmore said:


> buy empty chassis and have boards made from jlcpcb with the official gerber files and build yourself. then it won't blow up.


Yeh, possibly the best option, but i can’t afford to order a second one. And housing is beautiful, i like it :/


----------



## decur

geoffalter11 said:


> Bass is extremely fast, tactile and defined. I can hear the pluck of the pick or fingers against the bass strings. It is not boomy or bloated at all. It is not a romantic or overly euphonic bass sound. I personally can’t stand midbass bloat or bloom. I find it slow and out of place. The CFA3’s bass is the best I have heard from an amp. Incredibly clean and realistic. If the song slams, it slams. It has all the subtlety I like in music.
> 
> In terms of thin, I wouldn’t say that either. It has a big soundstage so the midrange feels more like you are standing in front of the SBD at the Fillmore in SF versus standing in the first 10 rows. The amp is not very colored. Pretty neutral, glare free and balanced.


“Neutral,glare free,balanced and not very colored”
i would also add musical,in which i completely aggree..
i do not want to sound like a broken record,but what i like most about this amp,is that you can really hear your dac.
this amp completely gets out of the way,and its your dac singing to you.
for people with multiple dacs,and have experimented,you will see……


----------



## Ethereal Sound

Drakkard said:


> Yeh, possibly the best option, but i can’t afford to order a second one. And housing is beautiful, i like it :/



Mind sharing any pics? As stated before, not a huge fan of dealing with Felitsa but the case options are probably some of the best in the DiY space imo.


----------



## geoffalter11

decur said:


> “Neutral,glare free,balanced and not very colored”
> i would also add musical,in which i completely aggree..
> i do not want to sound like a broken record,but what i like most about this amp,is that you can really hear your dac.
> this amp completely gets out of the way,and its your dac singing to you.
> for people with multiple dacs,and have experimented,you will see……


I agree with you. I love my DAC and this amp makes me want to upgrade my DAC. First I will get the accompanying Iris and move to I2S, but you are absolutely right. This amp deserves the best DAC each person who owns it can afford.


----------



## kevin gilmore

drakkard sent me some pictures.

opamps and voltage references with early 1990's date codes, obviously pulls and soldered direct to the board with no socket.
golden reference power supplies missing the required tantalum capacitors, likely oscillating or other bad behavior
some resistors installed very tightly to ground possibly shorting.
some transistors installed backwards, or alternate parts used with different pinout
bad soldering job on some of the power transistors.
that340 also soldered directly to the board
really low quality electrolytics on the amp boards
and that is just what is see from the few pictures he sent.

i would stay far away from felista audio.


----------



## paradoxper

kevin gilmore said:


> drakkard sent me some pictures.
> 
> opamps and voltage references with early 1990's date codes, obviously pulls and soldered direct to the board with no socket.
> golden reference power supplies missing the required tantalum capacitors, likely oscillating or other bad behavior
> ...


This one gets close enough to the absolute mess of Felitsa's not-so-Megatron build, huh.


----------



## Pashmeister

CFA3 being sold near me. Looks okay?


----------



## kevin gilmore

vbe transistors not on the heatsink so thermal stability might be an issue. with the top on probably ok.

not even some of mikhail's early constructions can possibly compete with the felista megatron. that one is clearly in a class by itself.


----------



## Slim1970

kevin gilmore said:


> drakkard sent me some pictures.
> 
> opamps and voltage references with early 1990's date codes, obviously pulls and soldered direct to the board with no socket.
> golden reference power supplies missing the required tantalum capacitors, likely oscillating or other bad behavior
> ...


This is completely unacceptable


----------



## Jimmyblues1959

kevin gilmore said:


> vbe transistors not on the heatsink so thermal stability might be an issue. with the top on probably ok.
> 
> not even some of mikhail's early constructions can possibly compete with the felista megatron. that one is clearly in a class by itself.



A bit off topic here but since this is Kevin Gilmore's thread and I noticed that he has two Single Power headphone amplifiers, I was wondering if either Kevin or anyone else would have an opinion regarding a Single Power PPX3 Slam headphone amplifier.  There's one for sale on US Audiomart and I was considering purchasing it.   Thanks in advance for your time and Happy Holidays!


----------



## Drakkard

Ethereal Sound said:


> Mind sharing any pics? As stated before, not a huge fan of dealing with Felitsa but the case options are probably some of the best in the DiY space imo.


----------



## Beefy

It really is gorgeous. Such a shame it's a literal smoking pile of crap.


----------



## kevin gilmore

fortunately the boards can be either repaired or replaced. my guess is that it is quicker to build new boards with real parts than to try and fix the old boards.

going thru all that effort on the chassis only to save a few dollars on substitute parts seems really foolish.


----------



## paradoxper

That's what poverty labor and incompetent greed amounts to.

You get exactly what you pay for.

The expense of ignorance.


----------



## Drakkard

paradoxper said:


> That's what poverty labor and incompetent greed amounts to.
> 
> You get exactly what you pay for.
> 
> The expense of ignorance.


Well it was priced at $3000, does not look cheap


----------



## Bhk1004

I think thats the incompetent greed portion of paradoxper's statement.


----------



## paradoxper

Drakkard said:


> Well it was priced at $3000, does not look cheap


Ah, that's exactly why it's said "looks can be deceiving."


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> Ah, that's exactly why it's said "looks can be deceiving."


Admittedly, I have seen some Felitsa Dynahi and Dynalo's on audio mart that looked fantastic from the outside.  But, knowing what they look like inside I think I am a hard pass.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jan 5, 2022)

Paradoxper, I was wondering if you could share with us your choice as a reference system.  Meaning- dac, headphone amp. and headphones. Cost-no-object, in all your experience what is the best you have ever heard?  Also- what would be your reference budget system?  By budget, I do not mean inexpensive but rather I mean within the realm of a reference system- looking at price vs performance, what would be your dac, amp., and headphone choice.   Also- how close would the "budget system" get to the cost no object system?


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 5, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> Paradoxper, I was wondering if you could share with us your choice as a reference system.  Meaning- dac, headphone amp. and headphones. Cost-no-object, in all your experience what is the best you have ever heard?  Also- what would be your reference budget system?  By budget, I do not mean inexpensive but rather I mean within the realm of a reference system- looking at price vs performance, what would be your dac, amp., and headphone choice.   Also- how close would the "budget system" get to the cost no object system?


That's tough. Really.
With so many qualifiers aside from just cost, and sliding preference and musical selection:

Best system:
Kevin Gilmore DIY T2, Berkeley Audio Design Reference 2, SR-009, SR-Omega (mine)
Eddie Current Studio T, MSB Analog DAC, HD800SDR
Trafomatic Primavera, Berkeley Audio Design Reference 3, 1266 TC (mine)
Kevin Gilmore Megatron, Schiit Yggdrasil (OG), SR-009
DNA Stellaris, Schiit Yggdrasil (OG), HD800
HE1

With a budget reference, It'd have to be piecemeal in some order:
CFA3 / Auris Audio Nirvana > Yggdrasil (OG) / Holo Audio May / Rockna Wavedream > 1266 TC / HD800 / Susvara
KGSSHV / KGSSHV Carbon / KGST / Megatron / BHSE > 009's / 007's / Lambda's

As to how close the budget components reach the counterparts, very.

I'd add a third list of targeted budget, no size constraints adding more speaker amplifiers

I'd add a fourth list denoting a less reference preference and add Verite Closed, D8000 and Solitaire P

I'd add a final fifth of niche ultimate reference and budget with true noteworthy deficiency which is the SR1a. Pair it with any components.

I'd finally clarify, the subjective preference is most important. Some hate plastic STAX, some hate playnar. You know.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> That's tough. Really.
> With so many qualifiers aside from just cost, and sliding preference and musical selection:
> 
> Best system:
> ...


Thank you so much.  Very Helpful..   You have some much experience with so much equipment- and your analysis is very valuable.


----------



## paradoxper

PSA:
Unless build specifications alter please follow general practice.

Amp must be turned off when changing headphones and when switching from SE / XLR input.

Drive one headphone load at a time. Do not use SE and XLR output simultaneously.

Please turn your amp off for extended time of leave.


----------



## sahmen (Jan 5, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> That's tough. Really.
> With so many qualifiers aside from just cost, and sliding preference and musical selection:
> 
> Best system:
> ...


Very interesting, but here are a few related scattered observations of note from which I am drawing zero conclusions for now:

1. I find it striking that some items in your signature do not appear either in the "cost-no-object" or "budget" listings: notably, the Valkyria, the Diana TC, and the LCD-5 (These are just the absentees that I find striking. It is by no means an exhaustive list).

2. All the Yggdrasils on the listings are marked as the original. None of the tweaked versions seem to have made the cut, which is making me second guess the status of my YggyA2 (with my still uninstalled Unison USB module--its being still uninstalled must be one more evidence of *"da bizarro"* of life on head-fi)

3. The CFA3, which I have been eyeing with some keen interest for months now does not make the "Best system" cut.  I do not know what to make of this finding, even though it seems like an interesting data point, because I have it listed as the next, and probably "last" head amp I am going to get. I do not think its appearance on the "budget" list is necessarily a bad thing, but as you can see, I am already in second-guessing mode as far as it is concerned, and I do not know exactly why.

4. I have found my favorite expression for the day in your signature : the *"bizarre world of head-fi."* Thanks for it.

5.  I am tempted to think, that the real takeaway from these listings is that the ultimate endgame holy grail of rigs does not exist, and that all the joys of the hobby can only ever express and exhaust themselves in the proverbial chase, but I am staying my hand because of my promise to draw zero conclusions from this read. I also don't think that the idea that only the chase ultimately matters is going to surprise anyone at this point

Note:  this is all for real!  Absolutely no trolling intended.

Many thanks again, for this enlightening contribution.


----------



## geoffalter11 (Jan 5, 2022)

sahmen said:


> Very interesting, but a few observations of note from which I am drawing zero conclusions:
> 
> 1. I find it striking that some items in your signature do not appear either in the cost-no-object or budget listings: notably, the Valkyria, the Diana TC, and the LCD-5 (These are just the absentees that I find striking. It is by no means an exhaustive list).
> 
> ...


End Game doesn’t exist. It’s a myth. Very cute, though. Our senses are constantly improving and evolving. They are like muscles. The more you use the better they get. The more I listen the more I evolve and the more I seek different things to match my current sensibilities.

Paradoxper’s list is extensive and fantastic. I took as if any on the list are probably a system worth trying. Not for everyone, music, environment and budget depending. CFA is a deal in comparison to commercial amps. But, with SQ as good as you will find in a SS amp.


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 5, 2022)

sahmen said:


> Very interesting, but here are a few related scattered observations of note from which I am drawing zero conclusions for now:
> 
> 1. I find it striking that some items in your signature do not appear either in the "cost-no-object" or "budget" listings: notably, the Valkyria, the Diana TC, and the LCD-5 (These are just the absentees that I find striking. It is by no means an exhaustive list).
> 
> ...


You say striking, I say stark which is what my criteria is based upon.

I don't remark the Valkyria as a TOTL performer nor is it budget friendly. A niche performer, certainly.
The LCD-5, for example, does not qualify as a reference for me personally. Nor the Diana unless both under qualifiers.

2. That's just how it is. I enjoyed an ECP DSHA3 > Ygg2 > Utopia, VC...

3. Qualifiers exist in my world, it would make the cut for best solid-state amplification I've heard. A top-five list is succinct as am I.

4. Thank the wonderfully quip tongued Steve Eddy.

5. Expand your referential experiences and conclude your own truths.

Noted. And never anticipated. You have an ethereal aura to your thoughts which I enjoy reading.

Enough ball sucking, nut riding.


----------



## sahmen

paradoxper said:


> You say striking, I say stark which is what my criteria is based upon.
> 
> I don't remark the Valkyria as a TOTL performer nor is it budget friendly. A niche performer, certainly.
> The LCD-5, for example, does not qualify as a reference for me personally. Nor the Diana unless both under qualifiers.
> ...


----------



## GoldenOne (Jan 5, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> PSA:
> Unless build specifications alter please follow general practice.
> 
> Amp must be turned off when changing headphones and when switching from SE / XLR input.
> ...


Out of curiosity why is this the case?
Seemingly true as a friend of mine ordered a CFA3 and had it shipped to me first to try out. Was sounding lovely, but then the next day whilst changing headphones it went up in smoke.

Builder has offered to pay for return shipping and to fix it so no worries there, he's been super helpful, but would be good to know why this is the case from a design standpoint just so that users can prevent it happening.


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 5, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Out of curiosity why is this the case?
> Seemingly true as a friend of mine ordered a CFA3 and had it shipped to me first to try out. Was sounding lovely, but then the next day whilst changing headphones it went up in smoke.
> 
> Builder has offered to pay for return shipping and to fix it so no worries there, but would be good to know why this is the case from a design standpoint


The builder is @Dukei as such, he shall provide you this general practice explanation from the design parameter.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> That's tough. Really.
> With so many qualifiers aside from just cost, and sliding preference and musical selection:
> 
> Best system:
> ...


If the "budget components" are "very" close in performance to the "cost-no-object", than a relatively small improvement in the CFA3- like the new proposed tube hybrid- may make things even closer- or perhaps so close to equal that it may not matter or even be foolish to spend extram money on.  I realize these evaluations are very subjective, along with being system and ear dependent, but point being that if you hold the CFA3 as being very close to the best there is regardless of cost- I will be curious how much closer the hybrid CFA3 will be in your estimation (if it ever comes out, and if it indeed an improvement).


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> Very interesting, but here are a few related scattered observations of note from which I am drawing zero conclusions for now:
> 
> 1. I find it striking that some items in your signature do not appear either in the "cost-no-object" or "budget" listings: notably, the Valkyria, the Diana TC, and the LCD-5 (These are just the absentees that I find striking. It is by no means an exhaustive list).
> 
> ...


@sahmen what are you looking for right now on your journey?


----------



## sahmen

geoffalter11 said:


> @sahmen what are you looking for right now on your journey?


The CFA3 would be the shortest answer, but it is tied exclusively to my ownership of the Susvara, and the idea of getting the optimal best out of the Susvara.  The problem is that I already have at least 2 amps which drive the Susvara pretty well (Pathos InPol Ear, and the Niimbus US4). but some posts on head-fi, and this forum (in particular) are leading me to believe that I might get significantly better performance out of the CFA3, which remains to be seen.  On the other hand, I have other TOTL headphones that play just fine with the amps I already have.  These are cans (eg. LCD-5, the 1266 TC etc etc) that do not have me obsessing about getting optimal amps.  Naturally, these factors (having what seems to be capable amps, and less amp-picky TOTL cans) often make me question the wisdom of getting the CFA3 solely for the purpose of optimizing the performance of the Susvara, which is, after all, just one can among others in the stable, if that makes sense.  It would be different if I had relatively unlimited discretionary funds to experiment with options whenever I want to, simply to satisfy my curiosity, which is not the case.

Now since the question of "what I am looking for" rarely ever has one simple and/or single answer (an unfortunate hazard of this hobby), here is another candidate:  I have been wondering whether to get another DAC to upgrade the level of performance I am getting from my current ones (the Sonnet Morpheus and the YggyA2).  I confess that this particular curiosity is arising less from any current dissatisfaction with those I own than it does from reading about new releases in the DAC market that we never stop hearing about on head-fi, such as the Holo Mays, the Mola Mola Tambaquis, and the upcoming Pasithea from Sonnet Audio....  I also confess that this pattern is not new... Before I used to be haunted by DAC names from Chord Electronics (Dave,TT2, M-Scaler), dCS, or Bricasti among others, but this latter pattern seems to have subsided, although I never got to make any purchase in this field.... Funny how that happens.


----------



## K3cT

I think it's too easy to get caught up in audiophile nervosa before forgetting that ultimately your headphone should be the most important thing and you should design your system around them, not the other way round.


----------



## rsbrsvp

K3cT said:


> I think it's too easy to get caught up in audiophile nervosa before forgetting that ultimately your headphone should be the most important thing and you should design your system around them, not the other way round.


Wow- I've never done that.  I like the option for several headphones and don't want to design a system around one and be stuck with other headphones sounding poor with it but I guess if that one headphone is maxed- what else is needed.       They say the HD800- a borderline reference headphone is stunning with the DNA amp- as good as anything out there- so maybe you are right..


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> The CFA3 would be the shortest answer, but it is tied exclusively to my ownership of the Susvara, and the idea of getting the optimal best out of the Susvara.  The problem is that I already have at least 2 amps which drive the Susvara pretty well (Pathos InPol Ear, and the Niimbus US4). but some posts on head-fi, and this forum (in particular) are leading me to believe that I might get significantly better performance out of the CFA3, which remains to be seen.  On the other hand, I have other TOTL headphones that play just fine with the amps I already have.  These are cans (eg. LCD-5, the 1266 TC etc etc) that do not have me obsessing about getting optimal amps.  Naturally, these factors (having what seems to be capable amps, and less amp-picky TOTL cans) often make me question the wisdom of getting the CFA3 solely for the purpose of optimizing the performance of the Susvara, which is, after all, just one can among others in the stable, if that makes sense.  It would be different if I had relatively unlimited discretionary funds to experiment with options whenever I want to, simply to satisfy my curiosity, which is not the case.
> 
> Now since the question of "what I am looking for" rarely ever has one simple and/or single answer (an unfortunate hazard of this hobby), here is another candidate:  I have been wondering whether to get another DAC to upgrade the level of performance I am getting from my current ones (the Sonnet Morpheus and the YggyA2).  I confess that this particular curiosity is arising less from any current dissatisfaction with those I own than it does from reading about new releases in the DAC market that we never stop hearing about on head-fi, such as the Holo Mays, the Mola Mola Tambaquis, and the upcoming Pasithea from Sonnet Audio....  I also confess that this pattern is not new... Before I used to be haunted by DAC names from Chord Electronics (Dave,TT2, M-Scaler), dCS, or Bricasti among others, but this latter pattern seems to have subsided, although I never got to make any purchase in this field.... Funny how that happens.


Honestly, with an InPol Ear and Niimbus US4, I am not sure you need a CFA3.  I say that as a CFA3 owner who thinks it the best SS amp I have ever heard.  It is so incredibly balanced and the bottom end is like nothing I have heard.  This past summer @Slim1970 loaned me his Diana V2, LCD-4z and his Susvara for a few weeks each.  My current Planar daily driver is the Code X, which I love more than life itself...  I also own a Cembalo Spring 1, which is an extremely powerful and clean amplifier that can power anything with authority.  I found the Susvara to be the pickiest and hardest headphone to enjoy.  What you say about building a system around 1 headphone is absolutely an issue, in my opinion, and is the reason I would never own the Susvara.  It shouldn't be that hard.  I guess there is the other side which is that because it is that hard, when you get it right the reward is that much greater.  The Susvara is an amazing headphone, I just found it to be way too hard to work with as a daily driver.  However, with the sheer number of TOTL Planars on the market today finding a great pairing for more than one headphone is much easier than building around 1.  I have not heard my CFA with the Susvara, but I can say that the Code X with 87 db of sound pressure is almost as difficult a load and sounds sublime out of the CFA3.  As does everything else I currently have in my stable.  I always keep just 3 headphones at a time. Currently, Code X, Radiante 1706 and Auteur LTD Bocote.  All 3 sound better on the CFA3 than any other amp I have owned.  But, I have not owned a Niimbus or InPol, so I can't speak to how it compares.

I am also in the same boat as you when it comes to DACs.  My current DAC is the Pontus II, which I absolutely love.  But, I can't help but pine for other DACs.  I love to read about them and find with an amp like the CFA3 the DAC has become more important than ever to my system.  I can't shake that same feeling as you and continue look at The Lampizator Baltic DAC, the Merason DAC1, TotalDAC, Terminator II, Holo May KTE, among others.  I also wonder how much of an improvement adding a dedicated streamer to the mix will help my system.  I currently use Roon through my iMac and then a USBe Perfect into my DAC.  While I feel confident I am maximizing the USB signal out of my iMac, I know there is more to be had by getting all of my music off of my computer and onto a dedicated NAS or into a streamer with SSD.  

Whichever way the world turns, the CFA3 will anchor my system for yrs to come.  I would feel the same way with an InPol and US4.  I am thinking of adding an Icon HP8 to replace my Spring 1 now that I have the CFA3, and I am hoping to add an HD800S as well.  All good things in all good time...


----------



## rsbrsvp

Have any of you ever heard of this headphone amplifier?

https://ferrum.audio/oor/

For those of you who are technically minded- does it look decent- or like junk?


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> Have any of you ever heard of this headphone amplifier?
> 
> https://ferrum.audio/oor/
> 
> For those of you who are technically minded- does it look decent- or like junk?


Reviews are really good. Marcus at Headfonics gave it a 93. From what I have read, they are a Polish tech company with a bunch of audiophiles who designed an amp and a power supply for their own personal use and liked it so much they decided to sell them. Apparently the Oor is really good, made significantly better by the Hypsos. At $3k for both, I’d take a CFA3 or Pure BiPolar or GSX-MK2. But, that is just my opinion without having heard it. I like the way it looks, though.


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> The CFA3 would be the shortest answer, but it is tied exclusively to my ownership of the Susvara, and the idea of getting the optimal best out of the Susvara.  The problem is that I already have at least 2 amps which drive the Susvara pretty well (Pathos InPol Ear, and the Niimbus US4). but some posts on head-fi, and this forum (in particular) are leading me to believe that I might get significantly better performance out of the CFA3, which remains to be seen.  On the other hand, I have other TOTL headphones that play just fine with the amps I already have.  These are cans (eg. LCD-5, the 1266 TC etc etc) that do not have me obsessing about getting optimal amps.  Naturally, these factors (having what seems to be capable amps, and less amp-picky TOTL cans) often make me question the wisdom of getting the CFA3 solely for the purpose of optimizing the performance of the Susvara, which is, after all, just one can among others in the stable, if that makes sense.  It would be different if I had relatively unlimited discretionary funds to experiment with options whenever I want to, simply to satisfy my curiosity, which is not the case.
> 
> Now since the question of "what I am looking for" rarely ever has one simple and/or single answer (an unfortunate hazard of this hobby), here is another candidate:  I have been wondering whether to get another DAC to upgrade the level of performance I am getting from my current ones (the Sonnet Morpheus and the YggyA2).  I confess that this particular curiosity is arising less from any current dissatisfaction with those I own than it does from reading about new releases in the DAC market that we never stop hearing about on head-fi, such as the Holo Mays, the Mola Mola Tambaquis, and the upcoming Pasithea from Sonnet Audio....  I also confess that this pattern is not new... Before I used to be haunted by DAC names from Chord Electronics (Dave,TT2, M-Scaler), dCS, or Bricasti among others, but this latter pattern seems to have subsided, although I never got to make any purchase in this field.... Funny how that happens.


I forgot to ask... are the LCD-5 and TC relatively easy headphones to find synergy with?  I also am keen to hear DACs by Bricasti and DCS.  I would also love to hear Nagra DACs.


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> Wow- I've never done that.  I like the option for several headphones and don't want to design a system around one and be stuck with other headphones sounding poor with it but I guess if that one headphone is maxed- what else is needed.       They say the HD800- a borderline reference headphone is stunning with the DNA amp- as good as anything out there- so maybe you are right..


Lately I have been really want to own an HD800S.  Any thoughts on how it will pair with the CFA3?


----------



## geoffalter11

K3cT said:


> I think it's too easy to get caught up in audiophile nervosa before forgetting that ultimately your headphone should be the most important thing and you should design your system around them, not the other way round.


Do you change headphones often?  With the amount the folks around here change headphones, do you think it would be hard to build a system around a specific headphone?  For myself, I try to build around a certain type.  Higher impedance, planar, etc.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I'm curious about the CFA3 with the HD800 as well.....


----------



## K3cT

geoffalter11 said:


> Do you change headphones often?  With the amount the folks around here change headphones, do you think it would be hard to build a system around a specific headphone?  For myself, I try to build around a certain type.  Higher impedance, planar, etc.



Quite seldom. Before Focal Utopia, only the HD800 which stayed around for an extended period of time in my stable. 

If you ask me to upgrade my headphone again to be honest I think only top shelf electrostatic that personally interest me. Even then it's not a priority because these days my listening time is divided between speakers and headphones and I would rather focus more on 2-channel stuff.


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Lately I have been really want to own an HD800S.  Any thoughts on how it will pair with the CFA3?


It will only highlight HD800 strengths and do nothing to mask their weakness. HD800 has always been a love it and hate it relationship.


----------



## sahmen

geoffalter11 said:


> I forgot to ask... are the LCD-5 and TC relatively easy headphones to find synergy with?


Well they both seem to feel right at home on the rigs I have here... I have really found nothing to complain about as far as their performances go.  But then again, both Niimbus US4 and Pathos InPol Ear are great all-rounders, including all rounders for the Susvara as well.  In the Susvara's case, I feel confident in blaming my curiosity about other amps, solely on the great reviews I have read about candidates such as the CFA3, rather than any deficiency  I have personally found from listening to it on the rigs I have.  

It may sound sometimes as if I am complaining, but that is really not the case. It may simply reflect my eagerness to hear the CFA3 just to find out what the real difference is.  I actually suspect the difference will be between different types of "great" rather than one between "great" and "meh." I just wish I had the means to settle the matter now, just to cure me of my own impatience (some would say my "nervosa").

Here's one question I have :  Can the CFA3 be configured to handle *both* planars and estats?


----------



## Hiker816

sahmen said:


> Here's one question I have : Can the CFA3 be configured to handle *both* planars and estats?


I'd also love to know the answer to this!


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> Well they both seem to feel right at home on the rigs I have here... I have really found nothing to complain about as far as their performances go.  But then again, both Niimbus US4 and Pathos InPol Ear are great all-rounders, including all rounders for the Susvara as well.  In the Susvara's case, I feel confident in blaming my curiosity about other amps, solely on the great reviews I have read about candidates such as the CFA3, rather than any deficiency  I have personally found from listening to it on the rigs I have.
> 
> It may sound sometimes as if I am complaining, but that is really not the case. It may simply reflect my eagerness to hear the CFA3 just to find out what the real difference is.  I actually suspect the difference will be between different types of "great" rather than one between "great" and "meh." I just wish I had the means to settle the matter now, just to cure me of my own impatience (some would say my "nervosa").
> 
> Here's one question I have :  Can the CFA3 be configured to handle *both* planars and estats?


I don’t know the answer to this question. But @Dukei will.


----------



## genefruit

Hiker816 said:


> I'd also love to know the answer to this!


Not sure there would be room for an energizer but @Dukei might have some ideas.  I know I have speaker outputs that could be combined with an energizer to serve the purpose but I believe your thinking something like the LTA Z10e


----------



## Dukei

sahmen said:


> Can the CFA3 be configured to handle *both* planars and estats?


No, not possible.


----------



## geoffalter11

Dukei said:


> No, not possible.


Miroslav putting the B in Subtle…🤪


----------



## Bhk1004

geoffalter11 said:


> Miroslav putting the B in Subtle…🤪


Putting the hammer down before he gets 50 estat cfa3 orders haha.


----------



## paradoxper

That's why there is the cfaelectrostat.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> That's why there is the cfaelectrostat.


Is that the Megatron?


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Is that the Megatron?


Ha. No. Megatron is Megatron. cfaelectrostat is Kevin's current feedback electrostatic amplifier.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> Ha. No. Megatron is Megatron. cfaelectrostat is Kevin's current feedback electrostatic amplifier.


I am not up to speed on all the options and differing amps.


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> I am not up to speed on all the options and differing amps.


Few are, my friend.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Ha. No. Megatron is Megatron. cfaelectrostat is Kevin's current feedback electrostatic amplifier.



How is it compared to Carbon?


----------



## decur

yes,
maybe Kevin can chime in and tell us more


----------



## kevin gilmore

so many different amplifiers and variations. All tube, some tube and all solid state. including an amp with TWT's

and more coming once i get that felista megatron off my bench.

in other news dukei has the tube input stage running. no idea if he likes it or not


----------



## Bhk1004

kevin gilmore said:


> so many different amplifiers and variations. All tube, some tube and all solid state. including an amp with TWT's
> 
> and more coming once i get that felista megatron off my bench.
> 
> in other news dukei has the tube input stage running. no idea if he likes it or not


We should start a poll. I'm going with hates it.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> How is it compared to Carbon?


If you are referencing the cfaelectrostat, that is one of the very few I haven't heard. It was made to be, say, a budget or easy amp. It likely compares well with KGSSHV.


----------



## Dukei

kevin gilmore said:


> in other news dukei has the tube input stage running. no idea if he likes it or not


I like it!  I've had a couple of hours with it but my initial impression is that it brings life to headphones that struggle with unengaging/analytical midrange and treble (think HD800). Bass quality and transient speed are equal to CFA3, which is positive. 

Have to spend more time with it and different tubes, my amp queue is crowded atm...


----------



## paradoxper

This is very good news, and very bad news, and very inevitable.


----------



## tumpux

kevin gilmore said:


> and more coming once i get that felista megatron off my bench.



Any chance on taking a felitsa cfa after that Dr. G?
😄😄😄


----------



## Ethereal Sound

Someone could make a pretty penny opening up a shop to fix up all the felitsa amps at this rate..


----------



## kevin gilmore

tumpux said:


> Any chance on taking a felitsa cfa after that Dr. G?
> 😄😄😄



So the latest i have found on the cfa3 is that he is using known fake toshiba output transistors and as a result, the power supply voltages are turned down to 24v.
(real toshiba parts are rated at 180v, the fakes blow up at about 50v). and the power supply are not using tantalum caps in the places where they are needed, and the opamps are pulled parts with 20+ year old date codes. and the circuit boards are hacked up to get the transistors closer to the heatsinks because he refuses to use angle brackets on most units. And resistors pulled to the circuit boards way to tight and on and on and on. There is nothing left to salvage except for a poorly machined chassis.
Saving maybe $100 on parts for a $3000 amplifier is beyond insane.

No one with half a brain would try to repair one of these things. Although i know at least 3 different people who are desperately going to try.

No one with half a brain should buy one of these things. Buy from dukei instead.

i will finally have the rest of the power transformers in a couple of weeks to finish the megatron. It was not worth the time and money to fix it.


----------



## tumpux

At this rate, will the Felitsa amps one day reach the same legendary status as Single Power amps?


----------



## kevin gilmore

the felista megatron is already way past the singlepower esx.  way past. at least mikhail could put the holes in the right place.


----------



## geoffalter11

kevin gilmore said:


> the felista megatron is already way past the singlepower esx.  way past. at least mikhail could put the holes in the right place.


Does the person who builds the Felista stuff realize how much he is messing up the design? Is this person making conscious choices to hurt the amp and therefore good hard working people in this community? Is it all about making a buck?

I hope it isn’t this cynical, but feeling it may just be…


----------



## kevin gilmore

The megatron, there is just no explanation for this. Definitely not to save money. labor for handmade with a dremel circuit boards cannot possibly be cheaper than jlbpcb even with vietnamese labor rates.

changing the caps on the grlv supplies definitely saves money. For two power supply boards that is 8 x tantalum caps, cost about $60. replacement with ceramic caps saves about $40. There is a slight possibility that the ceramic caps in those positions perform equally well, but i tried that a long time ago and stuck with the tantalum.
using pulled surplus parts also saves some money. not using ic sockets saves some money. using fake output transistors definitely saves money.


----------



## K3cT

Has anyone compared the CFA-3 with the Ferrum OOR before?


----------



## buzzlulu

Or with the Bakoon/Enleum?


----------



## EstrangedBaron

buzzlulu said:


> Or with the Bakoon/Enleum?


I found one review of the Bakoon 13R VS CFA 3 here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-911#post-16752381


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Does the person who builds the Felista stuff realize how much he is messing up the design? Is this person making conscious choices to hurt the amp and therefore good hard working people in this community? Is it all about making a buck?
> 
> I hope it isn’t this cynical, but feeling it may just be…


Well, with some amps he builds them and doesn't even bother to test they work properly.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> Well, with some amps he builds them and doesn't even bother to test they work properly.


That is crazy!!! Only buy from @Dukei


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> This is very good news, and very bad news, and very inevitable.


What is the VERY bad news- and what is VERY inevitable?


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 13, 2022)

We must improve the literacy of these forum members.

It means, yes, another Gilmore amp, and then another Gilmore amp, and then...

you ****ing die.


----------



## rsbrsvp

got it.   You communicate a lot in very few words..  I like it...

short- direct- no baloney.....


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> got it.   You communicate a lot in very few words..  I like it...
> 
> short- direct- no baloney.....


Well, at least let me get a cheek in!


----------



## Bhk1004

Direct cheeky baloney?


----------



## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> Direct cheeky baloney?


That's the sound signature of Wells amps. Nods.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Will anyone involved involved in this thread be receiving the new CFA-3 hybrid with tube input for review?


----------



## Bhk1004

Dukei saying it's good not enough for you?


----------



## Bhk1004

I just realized how dickish that sounded lol. Sorry I was just teasing, and yes of course at least 1 person in here will hear it outside of Dukei. Most likely at least 2.


----------



## rsbrsvp

no problem. Thanks for the info..


----------



## FOUNDERZERO (Jan 14, 2022)

EstrangedBaron said:


> I found one review of the Bakoon 13R VS CFA 3 here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-911#post-16752381


Having read that and reviews of the AMP-23R, it seems like the 23R's sound signature features elements found in both the 13R and CFA3.

Lately I find myself split between the 23R and CFA3 as far as headphone amp upgrades go.


----------



## EstrangedBaron

FOUNDERZERO said:


> Having read that and reviews of the AMP-23R, it seems like the 23R's sound signature features elements found in both the 13R and CFA3.
> 
> Lately I find myself split between the 23R and CFA3 as far as headphone amp upgrades go.


I've actually found myself in the same situation as well. Though this new tube input version of the CFA3 does sound like it could potentially be better than the 23r overall. I guess we'll just have to wait and see!


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jan 16, 2022)

If the CFA-3 tube version is just going to lean it more towards the 23R, perhaps the 23R would be the better choice as one need not get into tube costs, rolling and experimentation. 

Perhaps I am oversimplifying.


----------



## Failed Engineer

Does anyone know where I can get a cable to go from the 4 pin xlr headphone out of the CFA3 to the speaker inputs of the Raal sr1a box? Want to try and see how it sounds.


----------



## Bhk1004

feel like most people make these on their own. The few I have seen were all self soldered.


----------



## purk

How much does it cost to commission a build for the CFA3?  Thanks.


----------



## decur

purk said:


> How much does it cost to commission a build for the CFA3?  Thanks.


It all depends on the parts chosen
contact ”dukei”
he can price it out for you.
miroslav was excellent to work with,and did a really nice job building mine.


----------



## MN8372

Hi all - I took delivery of a CFA3 yesterday from Dukei (thanks to the good words from the people on this thread).  Awesome service and great guy to deal with.  

The amp is a keeper - I knew that from the first 20 seconds.

Miroslav said I should give it a couple of days to let it settle down which I will do.

But it’s an absolute beast of a thing with so much more punch, detail and clarity than I’m used to.  Just need to make sure the kids don’t mess with it and blow it up by plugging and unplugging headphones whilst it is turned on… I might stick a nuclear warning sign on it.   Seems appropriate.


----------



## migo

MN8372 said:


> Hi all - I took delivery of a CFA3 yesterday from Dukei (thanks to the good words from the people on this thread).  Awesome service and great guy to deal with.
> 
> The amp is a keeper - I knew that from the first 20 seconds.
> 
> ...


I'm really curios why is plugging/unplugging headphones so dangerous for this AMP? (off course not playing music on 100% volume situation  Is it by design? I always plug ma HP last to my chain, when all is powered on and connected to protect them. I'm very interested in this amp but this is a bit strange. Thank you very much!


----------



## Bhk1004

Do people really turn off and on their amp swapping headphones? I do pause it, and turn the volume down before swapping. Volume down is mainly cause of different volume/power level depending on the headphone.


----------



## Beefy (Jan 27, 2022)

Bhk1004 said:


> Do people really turn off and on their amp swapping headphones? I do pause it, and turn the volume down before swapping. Volume down is mainly cause of different volume/power level depending on the headphone.



The problem with something like the CFA (and in the past, also the B22) is that these amps have vanishingly low output impedances, very high voltage rails, and no current limiting circuitry. Combine that with a shorting TRS jack, which can potentially allow literal amperes of current to run through the output stage. This is very bad.

So, yes volume down to zero when switching phones, this is pretty much essential. Turning off the amp completely when switching phones probably isn't necessary, but it also isn't silly. Use of a non-shorting jack makes sense as well - I've often considered switching to 4-pin XLR for everything - even for unbalanced phones and unbalanced amps (quite a lot of people already do this).


----------



## paradoxper

Beefy said:


> The problem with something like the CFA (and in the past, also the B22) is that these amps have vanishingly low output impedances, very high voltage rails, and no current limiting circuitry. Combine that with a shorting TRS jack, which can potentially allow literal amperes of current to run through the output stage. This is very bad.
> 
> So, yes volume down to zero when switching phones, this is pretty much essential. Turning off the amp completely when switching phones probably isn't necessary, but it also isn't silly. Use of a non-shorting jack makes sense as well - I've often considered switching to 4-pin XLR for everything - even for unbalanced phones and unbalanced amps (quite a lot of people already do this).


This will require further elaboration. Switching from XLR output to single ended output when the amp is on will burn the output transistors.

@Dukei please provide the full context.


----------



## Bhk1004

paradoxper said:


> This will require further elaboration. Switching from XLR output to single ended output when the amp is on will burn the output transistors.
> 
> @Dukei please provide the full context.


I mean... you say this but I did this without issue for over a year. Of course with song paused and volume reduced.


----------



## Beefy (Jan 27, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> This will require further elaboration. Switching from XLR output to single ended output when the amp is on will burn the output transistors.
> 
> @Dukei please provide the full context.



That's not even remotely what I meant. I meant in most circumstance, don't install a TRS connector in the amp at all. It's not a great connector for any situation that can pass a lot of current.



Bhk1004 said:


> I mean... you say this but I did this without issue for over a year. Of course with song paused and volume reduced.



Song paused and volume reduced should be fine. Just don't want to risk a potential short while there is music playing.


----------



## Dukei

Beefy said:


> The problem with something like the CFA (and in the past, also the B22) is that these amps have vanishingly low output impedances, very high voltage rails, and no current limiting circuitry. Combine that with a shorting TRS jack, which can potentially allow literal amperes of current to run through the output stage. This is very bad.
> 
> So, yes volume down to zero when switching phones, this is pretty much essential. Turning off the amp completely when switching phones probably isn't necessary, but it also isn't silly. Use of a non-shorting jack makes sense as well - I've often considered switching to 4-pin XLR for everything - even for unbalanced phones and unbalanced amps (quite a lot of people already do this).


This summarizes it very well. Although I would recommend powering off the amp when plugging/unplugging hp, doesn't take long to do it.
I have done some configurations with speaker terminals. In that case, it would be alright to turn the volume down and use the headphone/speaker switch while the unit is on.



migo said:


> I always plug ma HP last to my chain, when all is powered on and connected to protect them.


You are probably trying to save your headphones from a spike in DC at the outputs. Thump or pop upon power on/off. You should consider incorporating a timer delay of some sort.


----------



## paradoxper

Beefy said:


> That's not even remotely what I meant. I meant in most circumstance, don't install a TRS connector in the amp at all. It's not a great connector for any situation that can pass a lot of current.
> 
> 
> 
> Song paused and volume reduced should be fine. Just don't want to risk a potential short while there is music playing.


I'll only run balanced. I was under the impression there was an active operational reason why though.

And this is due to two amps failing back to back when playing with single ended headphones while the CFA3 was on.

So I'm rather unsatisfied with the reasoning provided. Check the box for bad luck and put the blame on Murphy.


----------



## migo

Dukei said:


> You are probably trying to save your headphones from a spike in DC at the outputs. Thump or pop upon power on/off. You should consider incorporating a timer delay of some sort.


It is my habit from pass times... most valuable component should be connected/powered last and disconnected first. Transient effect currents when powering on/off can have unwanted consequences. My current amp has delayed output connection, but I'm considering to get CFA3 instead, but it must be safe I've 5y old boy here.


----------



## paradoxper

purk said:


> How much does it cost to commission a build for the CFA3?  Thanks.


For you anything. It will depend on a number of factors but $2.2-3.2k is a good start.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Has anyone heard the tube hybrid yet?  I'm getting a bit restless wanting to hear some feedback.


----------



## Bhk1004

I don't think anyone has heard it except dukei


----------



## MN8372

Hi all - a very brief mini review on the CFA3 (built by Dukei).  I will keep this short because the more I say probably the more confusing I will sound.  In a nutshell - it’s a 10/10 for me.  Incredible.    

My background is softer/easier sounding amplifiers (Moon 430HAD/Studio 6).  But with good reason.  I’m sensitive to harsh treble and artificial sounding midrange in particular.  I love natural timbre and a lot of the music I listen to is vocal heavy.  But I was intrigued by the CFA3 after reading this thread.  For me, it manages to bring much needed detail, transparency, punch and a huge soundstage but without sounding harsh.  The micro details and spatial clues that are now revealed on familiar tracks is amazing.  With my Susvaras it’s almost “speaker like”.  And pulls the same trick with my LCD5 (surprising to me).   Speaker like is really the main takeaway for me.  A huge soundstage with a wonderful balance throughout the full range  (with a really strong bass foundation).  Still headphones of course with all the pros and cons that brings but definitely more speaker like than I’ve heard before.   

It’s a dead neutral amplifier - not bright and not harsh.  But can be a little unforgiving with poorly recorded material.  But still very listenable with poor recordings and flat out amazing with better quality recordings.  Maybe helped a bit by the combo with the Holo May - a Chord Dave or similar might be too much of a good thing?

I tried the LCD5 out of my valve amp last night and they just sounded congested with much less detail and transparency.  Previously I had been running a bass shelf on the LCD5 as well as boosting the treble and lowering the upper mids (with Roon EQ).  Not necessary any more.

And with the Susvara - this just scales so well.  Although the LCD5 benefits from the CFA3, the Susvara (to my ears) pulls ahead with the new amp..  I’ve upgraded my system quite a bit this past 6 months and the CFA3 is the best value upgrade I’ve made in that time.  

I’m intrigued about what a tube pre-amp will do.  But very happy with the amp as is.  Next step will probably be new headphones - SR1A or TC’s.  Not sure which…


----------



## fiiom11pro (Jan 30, 2022)

MN8372 said:


> Hi all - a very brief mini review on the CFA3 (built by Dukei).  I will keep this short because the more I say probably the more confusing I will sound.  In a nutshell - it’s a 10/10 for me.  Incredible.
> 
> My background is softer/easier sounding amplifiers (Moon 430HAD/Studio 6).  But with good reason.  I’m sensitive to harsh treble and artificial sounding midrange in particular.  I love natural timbre and a lot of the music I listen to is vocal heavy.  But I was intrigued by the CFA3 after reading this thread.  For me, it manages to bring much needed detail, transparency, punch and a huge soundstage but without sounding harsh.  The micro details and spatial clues that are now revealed on familiar tracks is amazing.  With my Susvaras it’s almost “speaker like”.  And pulls the same trick with my LCD5 (surprising to me).   Speaker like is really the main takeaway for me.  A huge soundstage with a wonderful balance throughout the full range  (with a really strong bass foundation).  Still headphones of course with all the pros and cons that brings but definitely more speaker like than I’ve heard before.
> 
> ...



where is volume pot stays at on listening level for the susvara? what kind of pot does it have? what level/steps is the too much volume level already (ear-piercing level) starts at?

thanks


----------



## MN8372

I have it at about 8.30pm (on high gain).  To put that in context - min volume is at about 7pm.   So very low.   Max volume goes all the way around to 5pm.  It’s a TKD 10k pot on my one.   Never tried it at ear-piercing level but suspect that is anything above 9/10pm (not even half way).  I get the sense it is capable of blowing the doors off the Susvara..


----------



## fiiom11pro

MN8372 said:


> I have it at about 8.30pm (on high gain).  To put that in context - min volume is at about 7pm.   So very low.   Max volume goes all the way around to 5pm.  It’s a TKD 10k pot on my one.   Never tried it at ear-piercing level but suspect that is anything above 9/10pm (not even half way).  I get the sense it is capable of blowing the doors off the Susvara..


nice to hear that. thanks


----------



## paradoxper

MN8372 said:


> Hi all - a very brief mini review on the CFA3 (built by Dukei).  I will keep this short because the more I say probably the more confusing I will sound.  In a nutshell - it’s a 10/10 for me.  Incredible.
> 
> My background is softer/easier sounding amplifiers (Moon 430HAD/Studio 6).  But with good reason.  I’m sensitive to harsh treble and artificial sounding midrange in particular.  I love natural timbre and a lot of the music I listen to is vocal heavy.  But I was intrigued by the CFA3 after reading this thread.  For me, it manages to bring much needed detail, transparency, punch and a huge soundstage but without sounding harsh.  The micro details and spatial clues that are now revealed on familiar tracks is amazing.  With my Susvaras it’s almost “speaker like”.  And pulls the same trick with my LCD5 (surprising to me).   Speaker like is really the main takeaway for me.  A huge soundstage with a wonderful balance throughout the full range  (with a really strong bass foundation).  Still headphones of course with all the pros and cons that brings but definitely more speaker like than I’ve heard before.
> 
> ...


Introduce a tube pre immediately. Don't think I've ever been happier than what I heard the last week with the MELZ 1578.
Quenched any desire for the hybrid, makes me consider selling my Primavera, it's on a line of revelatory and is just plain bringing me such immense listening enjoyment.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> Introduce a tube pre immediately. Don't think I've ever been happier than what I heard the last week with the MELZ 1578.
> Quenched any desire for the hybrid, makes me consider selling my Primavera, it's on a line of revelatory and is just plain bringing me such immense listening enjoyment.


Isn't the MELZ 1578 a tube rather than a pre-amp?


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> Isn't the MELZ 1578 a tube rather than a pre-amp?


Indeed. I am using a tube pre, but rather focused on the MELZ 1578 because I've heard numerous and it has me flying.


----------



## EstrangedBaron

paradoxper said:


> Indeed. I am using a tube pre, but rather focused on the MELZ 1578 because I've heard numerous and it has me flying.


Out of curiosity, what pre-amplifier are you using those MELZ 1578 tubes in?


----------



## paradoxper

EstrangedBaron said:


> Out of curiosity, what pre-amplifier are you using those MELZ 1578 tubes in?


That was using the Freya+.


----------



## Failed Engineer

I've been borrowing an SR1a from a friend and putting it through it's paces with an HSA-1b and through the CFA3.  To my surprise, I like it better through the CFA3 and SR1a interface, and it's pretty much a KO in favor of the CFA3.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> That was using the Freya+.


I thought you sold the Freya +???


----------



## normie610

Failed Engineer said:


> I've been borrowing an SR1a from a friend and putting it through it's paces with an HSA-1b and through the CFA3.  To my surprise, I like it better through the CFA3 and SR1a interface, and it's pretty much a KO in favor of the CFA3.


Yes CFA3 is amazing with SR1a. It really is The One Amp for me as it sounds incredible with TC and Susvara as well.


----------



## Jmm722

Is there a build guide/parts list for this?  I went through the first 15 pages or so,  but couldn’t find anything.  I may have missed it.


----------



## rsbrsvp

What feature(s) do I need to have built into my CFA-3 to use the SR1a and the interface box?  I assume just XLR outs?  Is this correct?


----------



## jlbrach

raal is coming out with an interface that will allow you to use a regular HP amp without the 100 watts of power with the sr1a.....apparently in february when they put out the new HP..we shall see but it is interesting


----------



## Failed Engineer (Feb 1, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> What feature(s) do I need to have built into my CFA-3 to use the SR1a and the interface box?  I assume just XLR outs?  Is this correct?


My CFA3 only had the 4 pin XLR headphone output so I had someone here build a 4 pin XLR male to speaker taps adapter.  If you have a build with speaker outs you can use the cables that come included with the interface between the amp and interface.


----------



## normie610

rsbrsvp said:


> What feature(s) do I need to have built into my CFA-3 to use the SR1a and the interface box?  I assume just XLR outs?  Is this correct?


Ask the builder to put speaker taps.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> I thought you sold the Freya +???


That was the plan. Blame MELZ.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> That was the plan. Blame MELZ.


Which version and where do you buy these MELZ tubes and which other tubes do you use in the Freya?


----------



## rsbrsvp

I am not very technically minded- but I thought the SR1a needs speaker amp. power.  True the CFA-3 is the most ridiculously powerful headphone amp around- but still not like a powerful speaker amp???


----------



## normie610

rsbrsvp said:


> I am not very technically minded- but I thought the SR1a needs speaker amp. power.  True the CFA-3 is the most ridiculously powerful headphone amp around- but still not like a powerful speaker amp???


I don’t know the technical aspect either but the SR1a really shines with CFA3 in my setup.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> Which version and where do you buy these MELZ tubes and which other tubes do you use in the Freya?


They are becoming increasingly difficult to find. They're the 1578 perforated plate. I also had great results with the Ken-Rad VT231 and RCA grey glass as the cathode follower pair. A second favorite are the Hytron.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> I don’t know the technical aspect either but the SR1a really shines with CFA3 in my setup.


It's not that shiny though. The HSA-1b isn't particularly good to begin. Try the SR1a with the uberamp.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 1, 2022)

Every time I hear about miraculous tube sonics I get excited and then I realize, I don't want to get into $500 NOS tubes and tube rolling.  It is a never ending hole of experimentation and will make me broke. Perhaps it sounds incredible, but I may just live with the best SS amp- and finished....

I'm still on the fence even with the new hybrid which I believe only has two tubes.  I just don't want to open the door to this mess, but two tubes is not alot.  Awaiting the reports.


----------



## Bhk1004

rsbrsvp said:


> Every time I hear about miraculous tube sonics I get excited and then I realize, I don't want to get into $500 NOS tubes and tube rolling.  It is a never ending hole of experimentation and will make me broke. Perhaps it sounds incredible, but I may just live with the best SS amp- and finished....
> 
> I'm still on the fence even with the new hybrid which I believe only has two tubes.  I just don't want to open the door to this mess, but two tubes is not alot.  Awaiting the reports.


Can't be scared of it...


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> It's not that shiny though. The HSA-1b isn't particularly good to begin. Try the SR1a with the uberamp.


I wanted to, but Miroslav told me the size is gonna be huge and I don’t have the space for it 😓


----------



## normie610

rsbrsvp said:


> Every time I hear about miraculous tube sonics I get excited and then I realize, I don't want to get into $500 NOS tubes and tube rolling.  It is a never ending hole of experimentation and will make me broke. Perhaps it sounds incredible, but I may just live with the best SS amp- and finished....
> 
> I'm still on the fence even with the new hybrid which I believe only has two tubes.  I just don't want to open the door to this mess, but two tubes is not alot.  Awaiting the reports.


But the result will be very rewarding 😁


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> Introduce a tube pre immediately. Don't think I've ever been happier than what I heard the last week with the MELZ 1578.
> Quenched any desire for the hybrid, makes me consider selling my Primavera, it's on a line of revelatory and is just plain bringing me such immense listening enjoyment.



Please stop... I've been holding out on purchasing a tube pre for a while and this might be my tipping comment, especially having heard the primavera...


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> Introduce a tube pre immediately. Don't think I've ever been happier than what I heard the last week with the MELZ 1578.
> Quenched any desire for the hybrid, makes me consider selling my Primavera, it's on a line of revelatory and is just plain bringing me such immense listening enjoyment.



When using a Pre, do you just set the CFA3's volume pot to max?


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> When using a Pre, do you just set the CFA3's volume pot to max?


Yes, I max out the CFA3.


----------



## jlbrach

I am a bit confused...why would those who do not like a softer sounding amp and who promote the CFA3 due to its NOT being a softer sounding amp want to use a tube pre amp in front of it?...would that not soften the sound?...I ask as one who is intrigued by the CFA3


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I am a bit confused...why would those who do not like a softer sounding amp and who promote the CFA3 due to its NOT being a softer sounding amp want to use a tube pre amp in front of it?...would that not soften the sound?...I ask as one who is intrigued by the CFA3


Your commission doesn't have to mean soften sound. You could increase bass, round transients, improve decay as long as you pair the tubes properly. 
For me, the TC has now a sweet lift in the mids, insane sound cues from stage space and reverb and a minor smoothing in the treble. This isn't at masking, blurring, blooming.


----------



## Pars

Dukei said:


> This summarizes it very well. Although I would recommend powering off the amp when plugging/unplugging hp, doesn't take long to do it.
> I have done some configurations with speaker terminals. In that case, it would be alright to turn the volume down and use the headphone/speaker switch while the unit is on.
> 
> 
> You are probably trying to save your headphones from a spike in DC at the outputs. Thump or pop upon power on/off. You should consider incorporating a timer delay of some sort.


A little late on this, but one reason why I modified a version of Kevin's protect board to incorporate a mute switch which completely disconnects the phones via the protect relay. Also did the same with Amb's board for SE only use (on my DynaFET). This of course won't help you regarding live switching the input from Bal<->SE, or at least I don't think it would. I would never use something as powerful as the CFA3 without the protect board in place.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

jlbrach said:


> I am a bit confused...why would those who do not like a softer sounding amp and who promote the CFA3 due to its NOT being a softer sounding amp want to use a tube pre amp in front of it?...would that not soften the sound?...I ask as one who is intrigued by the CFA3



In my experience, tubes tend to have better Z axis imaging compared to SS amps. Putting a clean pre in front can give you that without compromising much, if at all, on detail retrieval, excess bloom, etc.


paradoxper said:


> Your commission doesn't have to mean soften sound. You could increase bass, round transients, improve decay as long as you pair the tubes properly.
> For me, the TC has now a sweet lift in the mids, insane sound cues from stage space and reverb and a minor smoothing in the treble. This isn't at masking, blurring, blooming.


Do you think that the Freya+ is enough to not leave me wanting much more? Balanced tube pre's tend to get a looot more expensive after the freya+ lol.


----------



## jlbrach (Feb 2, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Your commission doesn't have to mean soften sound. You could increase bass, round transients, improve decay as long as you pair the tubes properly.
> For me, the TC has now a sweet lift in the mids, insane sound cues from stage space and reverb and a minor smoothing in the treble. This isn't at masking, blurring, blooming.


perhaps all true but placing a tube pre amp in front of a solid state amp has to change the overall sound presentation...I am not at all suggesting it not be something one likes better I just find it a bit inconsistent..again I say this as one who has been in touch with and talked of obtaining a CFA3...mostly on my buddy paradoxper's  recommendation..personally, I have a chord dave/blu2 and if I had my druthers for transparency sake I would use all my HP's straight out of the dave...sadly that doesnt work for my TC and susvara due to their inefficiency so I use an additional external amp...I try to use amps that color the sound as little as possible but if I placed an tube pre amp in front of the amp I will now have 2 more sources between the music and my HP's...this is a debate that has been going on forever here but to say we are not further altering the sound seems misleading...again please understand I get that the distortion can be pleasing or sound better but there is distortion however well implemented


----------



## kevin gilmore (Feb 2, 2022)

the tube input section is nothing like a tube preamp. it has no voltage gain. only current gain, and it has much lower thd than even the best of the tube preamps.
fully balanced, fully differential and dc coupled input thru output. 

the tube input has a very high input impedance. the solid state input has an input impedance of about 5k.


----------



## paradoxper (Feb 2, 2022)

Ethereal Sound said:


> In my experience, tubes tend to have better Z axis imaging compared to SS amps. Putting a clean pre in front can give you that without compromising much, if at all, on detail retrieval, excess bloom, etc.
> 
> Do you think that the Freya+ is enough to not leave me wanting much more? Balanced tube pre's tend to get a looot more expensive after the freya+ lol.


I rolled through a ton of tubes before finding the MELZ and it was not close to where I wanted things to sound before. That fine line of punch vs bloom, presence vs shout, etc. I found it now without much compromise, however, scaling the Susvara the other way, this would be a much more difficult tuning. I wasn't looking to lean into color that would detract the CFA3's strong characteristics but rather help illuminate spots.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> I rolled through a ton of tubes before finding the MELZ and it was not close to where I wanted things to sound before. That fine line of punch vs bloom, presence vs shout, etc. I found it now without much compromise, however, scaling the Susvara the other way, this would be a much more difficult tuning. I wasn't looking to lean into color that would detract the CFA3's strong characteristics but rather help illuminate spots.



Thanks for your input, as always. I may give it a shot anyways and see if I'm able to achieve what I'm looking for on the Susvara/SuSy Dynahi combo.


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Thanks for your input, as always. I may give it a shot anyways and see if I'm able to achieve what I'm looking for on the Susvara/SuSy Dynahi combo.


Let me know if you need help with 6SN7 tubes. I would start with the RFT and Ken-Rad VT231 with Susvara in mind.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 3, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> I am a bit confused...why would those who do not like a softer sounding amp and who promote the CFA3 due to its NOT being a softer sounding amp want to use a tube pre amp in front of it?...would that not soften the sound?...I ask as one who is intrigued by the CFA3


I have this exact same concern which is one of the reasons why I will not add a tube pre-amp.  However, from what I understand about the new hybrid- there is no softening or mushing relative to the SS and only a very very insignificant amount of noise added- which was a requirement for me to order the hybrid version.  Adding a pre-amp is playing games which I don't want to play; to costly, to time consuming; to much equipment, to many tube options, to many preamp options, to much opportunity for softening of sonics, noise, microphonics, etc....; just to much opportunity to mess up in to many ways and in addition become very poor along the way.  DC coupled Hybrid is the "purist" clean way to add tubes to the CFA-3.

ORDER NOW WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!


----------



## PierPP

While we're talking about hybrids... Mr @Dukei is starting to work of my SS CFA3...
Thanks to my Jedi, @paradoxper!  your little padawan is learning the ways of the force


----------



## paradoxper

PierPP said:


> While we're talking about hybrids... Mr @Dukei is starting to work of my SS CFA3...
> Thanks to my Jedi, @paradoxper!  your little padawan is learning the ways of the force


Importantly you have the TC prepared. 

This is the way.


----------



## PierPP

paradoxper said:


> Importantly you have the TC prepared.



You're rubbing salt into the wound, evil


----------



## fiiom11pro

PierPP said:


> While we're talking about hybrids... Mr @Dukei is starting to work of my SS CFA3...
> Thanks to my Jedi, @paradoxper!  your little padawan is learning the ways of the force


dukei is Master Yoda.
little padawan  is you.
Obi-Wan Kenobi is paradoxper! 
​


----------



## PierPP

fiiom11pro said:


> dukei is Master Yoda.
> little padawan  is you.
> Obi-Wan Kenobi is paradoxper!
> ​



Ops! 
I feel like a padawan for sure.. but I reversed Paradox and Dukei ! arrgh


----------



## paradoxper

PierPP said:


> Ops!
> I feel like a padawan for sure.. but I reversed Paradox and Dukei ! arrgh


Don't forget, our Dark Sith @kevin gilmore 🤣


----------



## slumberman

Hello all!

I am parting with my CFA3. I received it a little over a month ago but unfortunately I cannot keep it. I figured I’d post here first before the classifieds…
Located in Europe! PM me for more info/specs/etc. Thanks!


----------



## normie610

rsbrsvp said:


> I have this exact same concern which is one of the reasons why I will not add a tube pre-amp.  However, from what I understand about the new hybrid- there is no softening or mushing relative to the SS and only a very very insignificant amount of noise added- which was a requirement for me to order the hybrid version.  Adding a pre-amp is playing games which I don't want to play; to costly, to time consuming; to much equipment, to many tube options, to many preamp options, to much opportunity for softening of sonics, noise, microphonics, etc....; just to much opportunity to mess up in to many ways and in addition become very poor along the way.  DC coupled Hybrid is the "purist" clean way to add tubes to the CFA-3.
> 
> ORDER NOW WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!


I don’t feel that my tube preamp is softening or mushing anything. The 300B tubes bring an improvement in midrange without sacrificing speed, resolution or detail.


----------



## jlbrach

obviously a tube pre amp in front the CFA3 is altering the sound in some way and it is a tube pre amp after all....


----------



## MN8372

My take - people like what they like.  If they prefer the CFA3 with a tube pre-amp then all good.  Clearly a tube pre alters the sound - otherwise what’s the point of using one.  I haven’t tried it yet but like the idea.  More a case of seasoning to taste.  No audio product is perfect and there are often compromises to be had between transparency/detail/speed etc.. on the one hand and timbre, tonality, weight, richness on the other.  Getting the balance is key.   

I think the CFA3 does a spectacular job in getting that balance right (clearly its strenghts are power/transparency/speed etc.. but without ever sounding bright or strident to my ears).  It’s very neutral and uncoloured.  

I suspect a tube pre may make a small (but helpful) difference with the Susvara.  But completely unnecessary for the LCD5.  In fact it might be counterproductive - the LCD5 is already a little too dark in the treble for my liking and is plenty rich enough in the mid range.  With well recorded material the Sus on the CFA3 edges ahead of the LCD5 for me (it closes the gap in the bass and opens up the Susvara so it is almost speaker like - it’s quite astonishing at times) but the LCD5  is more forgiving of poorly recorded material.  A tube pre might just help the Sus with that aspect.  Hopefully without diminishing the CFA3’s strengths.   

But I’m surprised how much of an all rounder the amp is.  I thought it would just be for power hungry cans like the Abyss or the Sus.  I think it’s more than that.   In low gain mode and running the LCD5 balanced its dead quiet.  No hissing at all.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

What people seem to be misunderstanding is the fundamental reason why its preferable to use tubes in the preamp stage and not the power amp stage. Cans like the susvara and TC need lots of power in a short amount of time in order to get the most dynamic sound out of them. You'll be very hard pressed to find an affordable tube amp that can provide this kind of output, but SS amps like the CFA3 can deliver it in spades. So the desire is to get the tube like distortion that creates creamy mids and smooth treble, without leaving the dynamics behind. This is where a good tube preamp comes in. You get the desired distortion, without the downside of loss of dynamics that most tube amps will have. BTW, distortion doesn't mean loss of detail, added mush, or any sort of dip in FR. It simply means the output has a second, third, fourth, we ct.. harmonic added. The location and amplitude of these harmonics are what determines if it sounds good or not.


----------



## jlbrach

exactly you get the distortion.....nothing wrong with that but it is distortion


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 4, 2022)

MN8372 said:


> My take - people like what they like.  If they prefer the CFA3 with a tube pre-amp then all good.  Clearly a tube pre alters the sound - otherwise what’s the point of using one.  I haven’t tried it yet but like the idea.  More a case of seasoning to taste.  No audio product is perfect and there are often compromises to be had between transparency/detail/speed etc.. on the one hand and timbre, tonality, weight, richness on the other.  Getting the balance is key.
> 
> I think the CFA3 does a spectacular job in getting that balance right (clearly its strenghts are power/transparency/speed etc.. but without ever sounding bright or strident to my ears).  It’s very neutral and uncoloured.
> 
> ...





jlbrach said:


> exactly you get the distortion.....nothing wrong with that but it is distortion


I agree with both of these posts.

1.  Of course it is all a matter of taste.  And there is not criminal action in using a pre-amp before the CFA-3.  If you like it do it.
2.  Nevertheless, it involves some technical compromises in that it adds noise, distortion, coloration, etc....

I have no agenda to get people not to use a tube preamp.  I just wanted to bring out that like Jibrach, I believe that it must be diminishing to some degree some of the attributes of the CFA-3 SS version that make it so special in exchange for some distortion/coloration.  That is OK.  Just talking it out.  Sound is not always what is technically the best but what our ears find pleasant.  Like a recent post mentioned, tube distortion done right can be very pleasant sounding and I believe this is an accepted perspective in the hi-fi world.  If it sounds good- enjoy it!!! 

I think the Hybrid version is supposed to add some of the pleasant tube characteristics you get with a preamp but without digging into the the ultra neutral attributes of the the CFA-3 SS.  A more subtle, less noisy, less colored, more neutral option to a pre-amp. I have been told by many Head-fi gurus over the years that directly coupled is the best way to do tube purist; but I am very non-technically minded.


----------



## fiiom11pro

paradoxper said:


> Don't forget, our Dark Sith @kevin gilmore 🤣


coudn't agree more. He's definitely on top


----------



## wein07

Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know if there are finished bulits out there for purchase?


----------



## PierPP

wein07 said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know if there are finished bulits out there for purchase?



@slumberman has one for sale in the classifieds


----------



## paradoxper

And be mindful whom you purchase your CFA from!


----------



## PierPP

paradoxper said:


> And be mindful whom you purchase your CFA from!



I have heard that the Swedish microclimate helps a lot the build process 😆


----------



## geoffalter11 (Feb 10, 2022)

Hey CFA3 lovers and owners... after much time and thought, I believe now is a good time to give some impressions of my CFA3. 

Chain:
Roon Labs from my iMac- USBe Perfect - Denafrips Iris - I2S into Denafrips Pontus - CFA3 or Icon Audio HP8 ( I also own a Cembalo Labs Spring 1).

First things first, this amp sounds incredible.  I am only using it on low gain.  I am controlling gain by either using XLR or RCAs from my DAC.  The 8 or so watts on low gain are more than enough for the headphones I own.  Even the Code X, which loves power.  Most of the CFA3 owners have a 1266 TC, Susvara, LCD-5 etc.  My headphones are not in that zipcode. I currently have a Code X, Radiante 1706 and an Auteur (mostly for my Icon HP8).  All 3 headphones sound blissful on the CFA3.  The CFA3 throws the largest soundstage I have ever heard from an amp.  Instrument placement is spot on; air between the instruments is the perfect amount, which leads to hearing all of the space between the notes.  It is a visceral experience, one I am thrilled to have the opportunity to enjoy.  Bass is perfect.  I can hear the strike of the pick or finger against the string, the entire length of the note with the perfect decay.  There is no lack of speed, or musical integrity.  PRAT is the single most important quality I look for in my equipment.  I want to hear my music at the right pace and time.  Timing is everything as they say, and the CFA3 allows for perfect timing.  Midrange is huge and articulate.  It opens up like a parachute and allows you to float above the melody with guitars, pianos, wind instruments and my favorite, the hammond organ.  Which sounds like falling water.  I can feel the water falling onto my head from all directions.  Yes, the stage is as holographic as anything I have heard.  I thought the Cembalo Spring 1 was the best amp I had heard.  It is still incredible, but the CFA3 is better.  I didn't think I would ever say that.  Treble is shimmering without any sense of etch or sibilance.  Cymbals sound lifelike and forceful.  But, the bass.  Oh, the bass.  So good!

I mostly listen to improvisational rock, jazz and funk.  Phish, Panic, Goose, Xavier Rudd, Railroad Earth, Miles, Beck (Sea Change and Morning Phase), Mark Knopfler, Grant Green, and anything else with a strong bass pocket, a drummer who plays like he/she has Octupus Arms, piano/keys/organ, and a soaring guitar player with a strong sense of tone, melody and phrasing.  If it is live, improvisational and delectable, I will listen to it.  The CFA3 has become the perfect complement.

Big thanks to Miroslav and @paradoxper for guiding me on my journey.  For those who have had Miroslav build you a CFA3, you already know what type of person he is.  If you haven't and are just reading along trying to determine whether or not you want a CFA3, know that he is the best of us.  One of the nicest, most talented guys I know.  He only surpasses these qualities with his level of integrity.  He is the real deal.  Same goes for @paradoxper ... so if you are wondering whether or not I like the CFA3, hopefully I am putting the B in Subtle enough to give you a firm YES!!! I am so happy to be part of the CFA3 family.  Last but not least, a big thanks to Kevin Gilmore for designing and providing us with your designs to enjoy and pass on to others.  We've never met, but thank you just the same.

My review is a bit choppy, but you get the gist.  The CFA3 is a beast with the sound taboot!


----------



## rsbrsvp

geoffalter11 said:


> Hey CFA3 lovers and owners... after much time and thought, I believe now is a good time to give some impressions of my CFA3.
> 
> Chain:
> Roon Labs from my iMac- USBe Perfect - Denafrips Iris - I2S into Denafrips Pontus - CFA3 or Icon Audio HP8 ( I also own a Cembalo Labs Spring 1).
> ...


Thank you.  Would you say it is "COLD" sounding?


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> Thank you.  Would you say it is "COLD" sounding?


No, not at all


----------



## rsbrsvp

geoffalter11 said:


> No, not at all


Thanks....


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Hey CFA3 lovers and owners... after much time and thought, I believe now is a good time to give some impressions of my CFA3.


Nods. Very, very happy for you.


----------



## geoffalter11

I know there is chatter about whether the CFA3 is cold, analytical or bright sounding.  That is not what I hear.  It is extremely transparent and extremely faithful to the source. This amp to my ears is NOT bright or cold.  It is so musical and fast and transparent.  The bottom end is pure magic and the midrange is so expansive it gives off the sense of being bright and cold, but that isn't what it is at all.  Once my ears adjusted to the size of the soundstage any sense of that feeling of brightness was gone.  Everything is laid bare with power and incredible dynamic swing.  The amp does not skip a beat.  This is just my two cents....


----------



## rsbrsvp

geoffalter11 said:


> I know there is chatter about whether the CFA3 is cold, analytical or bright sounding.  That is not what I hear.  It is extremely transparent and extremely faithful to the source. This amp to my ears is NOT bright or cold.  It is so musical and fast and transparent.  The bottom end is pure magic and the midrange is so expansive it gives off the sense of being bright and cold, but that isn't what it is at all.  Once my ears adjusted to the size of the soundstage any sense of that feeling of brightness was gone.  Everything is laid bare with power and incredible dynamic swing.  The amp does not skip a beat.  This is just my two cents....


That was a very meaningful post to me....


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> That was a very meaningful post to me....


Thank you


----------



## normie610

geoffalter11 said:


> I know there is chatter about whether the CFA3 is cold, analytical or bright sounding.  That is not what I hear.  It is extremely transparent and extremely faithful to the source. This amp to my ears is NOT bright or cold.  It is so musical and fast and transparent.  The bottom end is pure magic and the midrange is so expansive it gives off the sense of being bright and cold, but that isn't what it is at all.  Once my ears adjusted to the size of the soundstage any sense of that feeling of brightness was gone.  Everything is laid bare with power and incredible dynamic swing.  The amp does not skip a beat.  This is just my two cents....


+1 definitely not cold…I’m still amazed that it can be very smooth sounding while at the same time it has explosive dynamics and impact. Best of the best.


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> That was a very meaningful post to me....


I think the other reason the amp can be construed as bright is the amount of air between the notes and instrument separation.  To me it sounds like sitting right at the soundboard in a venue like the Fillmore West.  You hear everything as the soundboard engineer is hearing and mixing.  You get the whole experience.  The holographic nature of the soundstage is what I think can be construed as bright or cold.  I think an amp like this benefits from an extremely musical DAC.


----------



## geoffalter11

normie610 said:


> +1 definitely not cold…I’m still amazed that it can be very smooth sounding while at the same time it has explosive dynamics and impact. Best of the best.


Agreed.  Nailed it!


----------



## K3cT

Explosive dynamics and impact seem to be the common theme of KG's amp design. Both BHSE and the GS-X are also displaying those qualities.


----------



## rsbrsvp

K3cT said:


> Explosive dynamics and impact seem to be the common theme of KG's amp design. Both BHSE and the GS-X are also displaying those qualities.


Agreed.  I think these sonic attributes are at least partially a product of "POWER".  Power= impact, control, slam, dynamics etc......


----------



## EstrangedBaron (Feb 18, 2022)

kevin gilmore said:


> the tube input section is nothing like a tube preamp. it has no voltage gain. only current gain, and it has much lower thd than even the best of the tube preamps.
> fully balanced, fully differential and dc coupled input thru output.
> 
> the tube input has a very high input impedance. the solid state input has an input impedance of about 5k.


Out of curiosity, around what input impedance are we looking at for the tube input version of the CFA3 then? 50k? 60k?


----------



## paradoxper (Feb 21, 2022)

CFA Hybrid:

Very clean with a sweet insight. Doesn't seem as brute or, say, as dynamically explosive but nothing too rounded nor bloomed.
Vocal presence carries a more forward and bodied fullness ( not a density) while treble extension seems more softened lacking that crispness or my favored flowery crystalline peering. Bass delineation certainly feels slower with less control and stage cues don't seem as wide nor immediate in nature.


----------



## genefruit

paradoxper said:


> CFA Hybrid:
> 
> Very clean with a sweet insight. Doesn't seem as brute or, say, as dynamically explosive but nothing too rounded nor bloomed.
> Vocal presence carries a more forward and bodied fullness ( not a density) while treble extension seems more softened lacking that crispness or my favored flowery crystalline peering. Bass delineation certainly feels slower with less control and stage cues don't seem as wide nor immediate in nature.


Looks great!  Can the tube section be switched in/out of the circuit?  If so, would you say when it is switched out that it's comparable to your other CFA3?  No need to immediately respond if more time is needed to form your conclusion.  Thank you in advance.


----------



## paradoxper

I am sure as my CFA3 employs SS > ZF, you may opt for a switchable stage. This build does not implement such function.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> CFA Hybrid:
> 
> Very clean with a sweet insight. Doesn't seem as brute or, say, as dynamically explosive but nothing too rounded nor bloomed.
> Vocal presence carries a more forward and bodied fullness ( not a density) while treble extension seems more softened lacking that crispness or my favored flowery crystalline peering. Bass delineation certainly feels slower with less control and stage cues don't seem as wide nor immediate in nature.


Do you prefer the hybrid or CFA3 combo w/ Freya+?


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Do you prefer the hybrid or CFA3 combo w/ Freya+?


When I run MELZ 1578, nothing hits the same spot. I'm going to run quad MELZ for fun.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> When I run MELZ 1578, nothing hits the same spot. I'm going to run quad MELZ for fun.



Interesting, thanks for the impressions! Seems like the tube hybrid is not for me, haha


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Interesting, thanks for the impressions! Seems like the tube hybrid is not for me, haha


I think you are really looking for a warm sound.


----------



## Bhk1004

thanks paradoxper for the thoughts! How are the temps on the amp? Also any feedback on holography between the 2 amps?


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 21, 2022)

It sounds like the Hybrid does to the CFA-3 all the classic things one expects tubes to do.

1. It rounds the sound a bit.
2. Sounds fuller.
3.  Sound is less crisp.
4. Bass is somewhat compromised.  I believe SS is always better in that department.
5. Sweeter than non-hybrid.

Glad to know it is very clean and not to warm...

Paradoxper, if you could only have one headphone amp (no pre option in this theoretical Q), between the ss and hybrid- which would you take?


----------



## paradoxper

Bhk1004 said:


> thanks paradoxper for the thoughts! How are the temps on the amp? Also any feedback on holography between the 2 amps?


Nominal due to the efficient heatsinking. Things run warm on the amp and slightly cooler with the power supply. The Freya burns comparatively.
Holography is where the Hybrid lacks on context of expectations, decay envelopes are too quick to really give that sense of dimension to instruments, however, the soundscape is wider than the CFA3 and provides more depth so sound cues operate in that larger tube plain.

In comparison the MELZ 1578 aids in more air and more dimension of sound with a distinct sweetness that runs through the midrange without providing congestion,
this is present in bass extension as well which is fuller and only slightly less immediate than just the CFA3.

The bigger question would be CFA3 + pre strength/weakness vs Hybrid and I'm wading through. The Hybrid is better than most solid state I've ever heard with exceptions to CFA3/Dynahi and on a different operation the ECP amps which present more tube like funny enough.



rsbrsvp said:


> It sounds like the Hybrid does to the CFA-3 all the classic things one expects tubes to do.
> 
> 1. It rounds the sound a bit.
> 2. Sounds fuller.
> ...


4. Bass is still better defined than the 13R or, say, Formula S. Those amps present overt bloom. A much cleaner top to bottom than a AIC-10 also of hybrid topology.
5. Sweeter with better presence of texture and sense of realness or natural presentation.

6. Hybrid holography and air isn't as saturated as a traditional tube skewing toward solid-state technicality and superior control.

If forced, as much as I may enjoy the cohesion of a Primavera or reverb of the MELZ with the middle-ground aiming to the hybrid, I love the overt dynamic nature and incisive detail of the CFA3, so the CFA3 is my preference.

Or a high current DIY T2 as that remains a benchmark of perfection would suit me.


----------



## Bhk1004

Thank paradoxper. Can't wait to see how the amp changes with diff tubes, but that's something for another future discussion. 

Just for anyone curious the amp is currently using new production EH 6922 tubes.


----------



## PierPP

… meanwhile in Sweden 😍


----------



## Bhk1004

Wow you ordered 3 cfa3?


----------



## PierPP

Bhk1004 said:


> Wow you ordered 3 cfa3?



Yeah but I am not alone as you can see 😀 the family is growing


----------



## normie610

PierPP said:


> Yeah but I am not alone as you can see 😀 the family is growing


Wow, one CFA3 for each headphone in your collection?


----------



## Bhk1004

normie610 said:


> Wow, one CFA3 for each headphone in your collection?


Is there any other way to do it?


----------



## PierPP

Ahah sorry! I just figured out I replied in a funny bad way. 

Ofc I am not getting 3 CFA3  

Those are the new babies under construction and only one will be mine 

🤖👾🤖


----------



## rsbrsvp

Will there be any other CFA-3 Hybrid reviewers?


----------



## Bhk1004

rsbrsvp said:


> Will there be any other CFA-3 Hybrid reviewers?


the amp is actually mine. I dont have my CFA3 any longer due to the hybrid coming in, so I had it sent first to paradoxper so that he could do a comparison review across what he has for everyone. I can do a review after a few weeks of receiving it, but I wont be able to do a comparison vs a cfa3 as it will be based off memory which is never good. My review will probably just be a love letter and comparison of stock tubes vs upgraded tubes that I have waiting for it.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Bhk1004 said:


> the amp is actually mine. I dont have my CFA3 any longer due to the hybrid coming in, so I had it sent first to paradoxper so that he could do a comparison review across what he has for everyone. I can do a review after a few weeks of receiving it, but I wont be able to do a comparison vs a cfa3 as it will be based off memory which is never good. My review will probably just be a love letter and comparison of stock tubes vs upgraded tubes that I have waiting for it.


Thanks.  I am actually interested in the stock vs upgraded comparison as I understand that one of the intentions of this build is that upgraded tubes should not make to much of a difference and that inexpensive tubes should sound very good.


----------



## Bhk1004

rsbrsvp said:


> Thanks.  I am actually interested in the stock vs upgraded comparison as I understand that one of the intentions of this build is that upgraded tubes should not make to much of a difference and that inexpensive tubes should sound very good.


Curious what made you think tubes didn't make a difference?


----------



## rsbrsvp

This is what I understand from Misralov and Kevin Gilmore.- Not that it wont make any difference- but rather not a big difference.
Something to do with the fact that the tube section is not increasing gain by much.  Please contact them them for an explanation because I am an idiot when it comes to technical understanding.


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> This is what I understand from Misralov and Kevin Gilmore.- Not that it wont make any difference- but rather not a big difference.
> Something to do with the fact that the tube section is not increasing gain by much.  Please contact them them for an explanation because I am an idiot when it comes to technical understanding.


I own an Icon HP8 and reached out to the owner of Icon to ask the question of how the tubes impact the sound. Which of the two types makes the bigger difference and how much difference does rolling tubes make. His response was that the circuit and transformer were 90% of the amps sound and that rolling tubes will provide different flavor but not necessarily better or worse sound. The differences in flavor added up to the +-10%. It is not a hybrid, but a pure triode tube amp.

I still want to try different tubes with it. I wonder if the CFA3 hybrid will operate similarly. Different flavor more than better or worse SQ. 

Either way it sounds like the hybrid is a success.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Feb 25, 2022)

geoffalter11 said:


> I own an Icon HP8 and reached out to the owner of Icon to ask the question of how the tubes impact the sound. Which of the two types makes the bigger difference and how much difference does rolling tubes make. His response was that the circuit and transformer were 90% of the amps sound and that rolling tubes will provide different flavor but not necessarily better or worse sound. The differences in flavor added up to the +-10%. It is not a hybrid, but a pure triode tube amp.
> 
> I still want to try different tubes with it. I wonder if the CFA3 hybrid will operate similarly. Different flavor more than better or worse SQ.
> 
> Either way it sounds like the hybrid is a success.


I think we are far away from knowing how liked the Hybrid will be. We have one review of a brand new product and I'm not sure even if the review would be graded as incredible.  I sometimes have trouble interpreting Paradoxpers's language. I actually enjoy trying to understand it- I find it very short and to the point, but I need to be on the ball to really be sure I am getting him.

Following is Kevin Gilmores message to me about the SS vs the Hybrid and about tubes for the Hybrid:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
_the tube input unit has a higher input impedance. it also has slightly higher noise. and probably higher thd, but not by much (i have never measured)

and there is no such thing as best tube. equivalent voltage gain is only 3 to 5 db so tube really does not matter much._
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I got the impression from Dr. Gilmore in other correspondences as well that he is not gung-ho about NOS tubes in general.


----------



## kevin gilmore

actually the tube input stage and amplifier are at least 7 years old. i will look later. it takes people a while to notice what i have published.

the megatron rebuild has shown me that some very expensive and rare tubes sometimes do sound slightly better than current production garbage.
but $400 for a single 12ax7 clone from the late 1950's does seem a bit much. and $1500 for a pair of output tubes (you need 4 pairs) is beyond insane.


----------



## Bhk1004

Wau... KG just said my tubes are too cheap...


----------



## littlej0e (Feb 25, 2022)

Bhk1004 said:


> Wau... KG just said my tubes are too cheap...


LOL. Sucks to suck... I know from experience.


----------



## PierPP

... it is being born


----------



## PierPP

Looks like Mr @Dukei did it again: can't wait for the shipment


----------



## paradoxper

PierPP said:


> Looks like Mr @Dukei did it again: can't wait for the shipment


Can't wait to read your vs EL34 impressions.


----------



## Clsmooth391

Reading peoples impressions on here and with special thanks to Rangerid, I have taken the plunge for a maxed out (2 chassis) CFA3.


----------



## fiiom11pro

Clsmooth391 said:


> Reading peoples impressions on here and with special thanks to Rangerid, I have taken the plunge for a maxed out (2 chassis) CFA3.


may i see your setup and how much did it cost you? thanks


----------



## Clsmooth391 (Mar 23, 2022)

I paid 2,900 euros plus PayPal fees.

I have the following: PS Audio P12, high grade custom server, DCS Elga Plus, Esoteric G-0RB clock, Enleum 23R, Susvara, early serial HD800, Falcon LS3/5A Gold Badge.

The Enleum is amazing with the speakers but a little too warm for me for the headphones. I read Paradoxper's comments on the 23R and feel the CFA3 will be a good match.


----------



## fiiom11pro

Clsmooth391 said:


> I paid $2,900 euros plus PayPal fees.
> 
> I have the following: PS Audio P12, high grade custom made server, DCS Elga Plus, Esoteric G-0RB clock, Enleum 23R, Susvara, early serial HD800, Falcon LS3/5A Gold Badge.
> 
> The Enleum is amazing with the speakers but a little too warm for me for the headphones. I read Paradoxper's comments on the 23R and feel the CFA3 will be a good match.




do u have a photo of the two chassis cfa3? is it with the golden reference psu? u got the speaker and headphone version? thanks.


----------



## Clsmooth391

I don't have a photo but it is the golden reference psu. Didn't know there was a speaker version. Looking into it now. If it does speakers as well as the 23R (which beat my Classe CT-2300 hands down) then the 23R will be moving on and the Phi TC coming in.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO (Mar 24, 2022)

Are there any performance or power drawbacks with using the CFA3's single-ended headphone output vs. XLR? Reason why I ask is because I have 6.35mm terminated cables for the Susvara and HE6SEV2. [Answered: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/does-balanced-more-power.696919/]

EDIT: Also, is anyone able to provide dimensions for the Golden Reference PSU chassis?


----------



## Clsmooth391

FOUNDERZERO said:


> Are there any performance or power drawbacks with using the CFA3's single-ended headphone output vs. XLR? Reason why I ask is because I have 6.35mm terminated cables for the Susvara and HE6SEV2.
> 
> EDIT: Also, is anyone able to provide dimensions for the Golden Reference PSU chassis?



The PSU is 24cm wide, 29cm deep, and ~10cm high (with feet).

My headphone cables are terminated with 1/4 inch connectors so would be interested to know about this too.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO (Mar 24, 2022)

Clsmooth391 said:


> The PSU is 24cm wide, 29cm deep, and ~10cm high (with feet).
> 
> My headphone cables are terminated with 1/4 inch connectors so would be interested to know about this too.


Source: Audio Myth - Balanced Headphone Amplifiers are Better

My understanding is that single-ended vs. balanced really only matters at the line level between DAC and amp. Headphone outputs, aside from contact resistance differences between XLR (BAL) and 1/4" TRS (SE), only seem to serve as conveniences when amplifiers feature both types. That said, some amplifiers report higher power output when using the XLR headphone port, so I suppose it just depends on the amplifier's circuit design?

I currently use a Flux FA-10 PRO, which features both XLR and RCA DAC inputs. It's a single-ended amplifier though, so both of its headphone ports end up delivering the same amount of power. I'm hoping it's a similar case for the CFA3.

(I could totally be wrong about some things here, so it would be appreciated if anyone with more insight can correct me.)

EDIT: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/does-balanced-more-power.696919/ (This thread seems to clear up misunderstandings for me. Basically, there wouldn't be any qualitative differences between the 1/4" TRS and XLR headphone outputs.)


----------



## Dukei

FOUNDERZERO said:


> Are there any performance or power drawbacks with using the CFA3's single-ended headphone output vs. XLR? Reason why I ask is because I have 6.35mm terminated cables for the Susvara and HE6SEV2. [Answered: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/does-balanced-more-power.696919/]
> 
> EDIT: Also, is anyone able to provide dimensions for the Golden Reference PSU chassis?



You should really consider balanced cable for your susvaras at least. It's a shame to have a balanced amp and only use half of it for SE duties. Might as well aim for a CFA2. 

I can't hear any difference in sound quality between BAL and SE output even though some claim that BAL is superior. The bottom line is, practically, you can get away with using SE output with susvara/he6 on high gain. You would be somewhere around 12 o'clock on the volume knob with a moderate/high sound level.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

Dukei said:


> You should really consider balanced cable for your susvaras at least. It's a shame to have a balanced amp and only use half of it for SE duties. Might as well aim for a CFA2.
> 
> I can't hear any difference in sound quality between BAL and SE output even though some claim that BAL is superior. The bottom line is, practically, you can get away with using SE output with susvara/he6 on high gain. You would be somewhere around 12 o'clock on the volume knob with a moderate/high sound level.


I have a balanced cable in production just for this amp!


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 25, 2022)

It needs to be said (or profusely shouted from the mountain tops') that this amp is also amazing with the Susvaras - not just the TCs.

@normie610 - you were absolutely spot on!


----------



## normie610

littlej0e said:


> It needs to be said (or profusely shouted from the mountain tops') that this amp is also amazing with the Susvaras - not just the TCs.
> 
> @normie610 - you were absolutely spot on!


Glad you get to experience the combo 😊 enjoy the Susvara!


----------



## rmsanger

I heard a rumor about a month back about a potential release from Headamp of the CFA3 design as an upgrade/TOTL option over the GSX Mk2 and GSX Mini.  Is there any credibility to this rumor and if so when is the potential timing of said release?

I'm currently looking to upgrade my SS chain so looking at Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor+Hypsos, Holo Bliss (pending 2Q release) and a few more options.  I'd be interested in a CFA3 that is not DIY and comes from Headamp.   I personally am anti DIY (my preference) when it comes to everything (Pi hats, speakers, amps, etc..) so have a strong preference for products coming from an actual company and willing to pay the markup.


----------



## paradoxper

rmsanger said:


> I heard a rumor about a month back about a potential release from Headamp of the CFA3 design as an upgrade/TOTL option over the GSX Mk2 and GSX Mini.  Is there any credibility to this rumor and if so when is the potential timing of said release?
> 
> I'm currently looking to upgrade my SS chain so looking at Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor+Hypsos, Holo Bliss (pending 2Q release) and a few more options.  I'd be interested in a CFA3 that is not DIY and comes from Headamp.   I personally am anti DIY (my preference) when it comes to everything (Pi hats, speakers, amps, etc..) so have a strong preference for products coming from an actual company and willing to pay the markup.


Any release is likely slated for next year.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I'm also usually concerned about buying from DIY'ers; but Misralov (Duki) has such a good reputation, and he has been so so flexible, and professional, and straight with me, that   I am extremely comfortable with my dealings with him.  Justin is wonderful as well- but he won't personalize your amp and provide you the type of flexibility that Duki does.  In addition, Duki seems to kind of be a borderline DIY'er.  He really makes a lot of these and the operation is extremely professional. Where do I draw the line and call him a company?


----------



## Clsmooth391

I went with Misralov (Duki) based on the praise he has received on this thread. My experience so far has been amazing. Very courteous and professional with quick responses. He has been patient and gone out of his way to help.

In terms of communication, my experience with some companies has been very poor in comparison.


----------



## buzzlulu

Has Miroslav played around with reducing the chassis size?


----------



## rsbrsvp

I don't know- but the smaller the better....

I really don't see any disadvantage of dealing with a smaller manufacturer like Duki over Headamp.  Only advantages...  I guess if the DIY'er has a poor reputation- it can be an issue- but not Duki...


----------



## driftingbunnies

buzzlulu said:


> Has Miroslav played around with reducing the chassis size?



Yeah you can possibly do a 2 chassis one.


----------



## skewed

driftingbunnies said:


> Yeah you can possibly do a 2 chassis one.


That's a fine example there 👌


----------



## bfin3

I can also vouch for Miroslav, impeccable work. A headamp unit will certainly have more cosmetically pleasing casework, but given that the headamp unit doesn't exist and probably won't anytime soon I'd go custom. Headamp has also had a totl e-stat amp that they officially announced years back that still hasn't come to fruition so I wouldn't wait around, they make great stuff but are historically not quick to do so. Ask me how many years it took to fulfill my bhse order lol.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Agreed.  Headamp is good stuff.  Well made, pretty, etc.  But wait times are often long and little customability.  Misralov is about personal service; custom ultra high end service, and superb products.  I think his casing looks very respectable- but I agree that the headamp casing is a notch above; so if this issue is important to the buyer- go with Justin.


----------



## genefruit

rmsanger said:


> I heard a rumor about a month back about a potential release from Headamp of the CFA3 design as an upgrade/TOTL option over the GSX Mk2 and GSX Mini.  Is there any credibility to this rumor and if so when is the potential timing of said release?
> 
> I'm currently looking to upgrade my SS chain so looking at Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor+Hypsos, Holo Bliss (pending 2Q release) and a few more options.  I'd be interested in a CFA3 that is not DIY and comes from Headamp.   I personally am anti DIY (my preference) when it comes to everything (Pi hats, speakers, amps, etc..) so have a strong preference for products coming from an actual company and willing to pay the markup.


I haven't heard that one but Kerry/Eksonic has plans to release a CFA3 as well - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kerrys-got-a-new-co-eksonic.962153/page-5#post-16850418


----------



## paradoxper

buzzlulu said:


> Has Miroslav played around with reducing the chassis size?


He recently completed a build that is about KGSSHV size.


----------



## PierPP

Miroslav is an artist. KG is … KG  

This thing sounds with the best headstage and separation I heard till now. My el34 tube amp has pretty much the same approach. Both Miles away from my old gsx mini. 

What I love of cfa3 is its tonality balance especially on the mids and the highs . This is where the magic happens imho. Far superior even with my tube rolling sindrome with the el34 

This amp can boldly push the tc where no one has gone before


----------



## littlej0e

PierPP said:


> Miroslav is an artist. KG is … KG
> 
> This thing sounds with the best headstage and separation I heard till now. My el34 tube amp has pretty much the same approach. Both Miles away from my old gsx mini.
> 
> ...



Absolutely gorgeous! Congrats!!!


----------



## buzzlulu

paradoxper said:


> He recently completed a build that is about KGSSHV size.


As in a Birgir KGSSHV?  In other words a little smaller than my Birgir Carbon?
If so that may work.......better than an Enleum


----------



## paradoxper

buzzlulu said:


> As in a Birgir KGSSHV?  In other words a little smaller than my Birgir Carbon?
> If so that may work.......better than an Enleum


As in a 3u Dissipante.


----------



## paradoxper

PierPP said:


> Miroslav is an artist. KG is … KG
> 
> This thing sounds with the best headstage and separation I heard till now. My el34 tube amp has pretty much the same approach. Both Miles away from my old gsx mini.
> 
> ...


Super happy you're enjoying yourself.


----------



## geoffalter11

Dukei said:


> You should really consider balanced cable for your susvaras at least. It's a shame to have a balanced amp and only use half of it for SE duties. Might as well aim for a CFA2.
> 
> I can't hear any difference in sound quality between BAL and SE output even though some claim that BAL is superior. The bottom line is, practically, you can get away with using SE output with susvara/he6 on high gain. You would be somewhere around 12 o'clock on the volume knob with a moderate/high sound level.


I can attest to this statement.  The amp on high gain with SE outputs or BAL on Low Gain has more than enough power for every headphone on the planet.  8 or so watts at 50 ohms is plenty of power.  I found the CFA3 to work best on low gain with BAL headphones.  It was the best sound I got from the CFA3.


----------



## geoffalter11

rmsanger said:


> I heard a rumor about a month back about a potential release from Headamp of the CFA3 design as an upgrade/TOTL option over the GSX Mk2 and GSX Mini.  Is there any credibility to this rumor and if so when is the potential timing of said release?
> 
> I'm currently looking to upgrade my SS chain so looking at Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor+Hypsos, Holo Bliss (pending 2Q release) and a few more options.  I'd be interested in a CFA3 that is not DIY and comes from Headamp.   I personally am anti DIY (my preference) when it comes to everything (Pi hats, speakers, amps, etc..) so have a strong preference for products coming from an actual company and willing to pay the markup.


What is the Holo Bliss?  Haven't heard of this amp yet?


----------



## K3cT

rsbrsvp said:


> Agreed.  Headamp is good stuff.  Well made, pretty, etc.  But wait times are often long and little customability.  Misralov is about personal service; custom ultra high end service, and superb products.  I think his casing looks very respectable- but I agree that the headamp casing is a notch above; so if this issue is important to the buyer- go with Justin.



Justin's chassis work is pure sexy, almost worth to get it for the looks alone.


----------



## rsbrsvp

K3cT said:


> Justin's chassis work is pure sexy, almost worth to get it for the looks alone.


Indeed- very nice.   I have Audio-gd components and I think Duki's aesthetics is around equal to it- so I am used to it.


----------



## fiiom11pro

K3cT said:


> Justin's chassis work is pure sexy, almost worth to get it for the looks alone.




I believe they have the same materials as the Blue Hawaii Special Edition (BHSE) (or maybe BHSE has better build?). They are all Kevin Gilmore's design anyhow.

The Master Yoda of amps.


----------



## paradoxper

fiiom11pro said:


> I believe they have the same materials as the Blue Hawaii Special Edition (BHSE) (or maybe BHSE has better build?). They are all Kevin Gilmore's design anyhow.
> 
> The Master Yoda of amps.


They use the same anodizer which also etches and polishes. Funny Kerry and I used the same for my DIY T2. My understanding is Kerry is now using a different anodizer -- at the time, the company was being transitioned during a takeover and we had some bumps along the road in finishing.


----------



## rmsanger

geoffalter11 said:


> What is the Holo Bliss?  Haven't heard of this amp yet?


Their totl Hp amp to match May and spring 3.  They said 2q release so more to come shortly.


----------



## geoffalter11

rmsanger said:


> Their totl Hp amp to match May and spring 3.  They said 2q release so more to come shortly.


Where can I read about it?


----------



## jjshin23

Picked up an early built CFA3 by Dukei (maybe 1.5 years old) and started listening to it today. Took an hour or so to get nicely warmed up and it is damn good! Only tried it with the TC but can't put it down. Very impressed and initially I believe it is the best sounding amp so far with the TC.


----------



## paradoxper

geoffalter11 said:


> Where can I read about it?


There's not much out about it and it's already running quite late as initial release was for late '21.


----------



## geoffalter11

paradoxper said:


> There's not much out about it and it's already running quite late as initial release was for late '21.


I read somewhere slated for summer 21. So, yeah quite late.


----------



## Four Kneez

rmsanger said:


> I heard a rumor about a month back about a potential release from Headamp of the CFA3 design as an upgrade/TOTL option over the GSX Mk2 and GSX Mini.  Is there any credibility to this rumor and if so when is the potential timing of said release?
> 
> I'm currently looking to upgrade my SS chain so looking at Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor+Hypsos, Holo Bliss (pending 2Q release) and a few more options.  I'd be interested in a CFA3 that is not DIY and comes from Headamp.   I personally am anti DIY (my preference) when it comes to everything (Pi hats, speakers, amps, etc..) so have a strong preference for products coming from an actual company and willing to pay the markup.


Can confirm HeadAmp is working on one. At CAF, Justin said he wanted to start making them, then at CanJam NYC, Justin said they were still working on it. No idea what the timetable is, though.


----------



## IMHERETOSTAY

Hey guys. I just bought a Susvara on a whim and was pretty much set in getting a Benchmark DAC3 + ACH2 combo with a Zynsonix cable but after reading some of the Susvara thread and this one, I'm leaning toward the CFA3. What do I have to do to have one made for me? I currently have a Final D8000 and a Schiit Gungnir MB/Mjolnir 2 stack that I could use in the meantime. I'm pretty new to all of this so any help would really be appreciated, I'm in over my head at the moment.


----------



## rmsanger

Four Kneez said:


> Can confirm HeadAmp is working on one. At CAF, Justin said he wanted to start making them, then at CanJam NYC, Justin said they were still working on it. No idea what the timetable is, though.


im def interested.


----------



## omega1990

So I placed an order for a cfa3 from Dukei and was wondering about a dac recommendation/compliment to another dac I own that could go well with the cfa3.

My current dac is a berkley alpha series 2 dac and I really like the neutral, analog, reference, and a bit laid back sound that it has. I was looking for a dac that was quite the opposite of the berkley but with similar performance in detail and resolution. So a dac that is warm, forward, punchy, and dynamic.

Some dacs I had in mine were:
Yggdrasil og (saw this mentioned in this thread before, and that its performance punches a bit above its price)
Rockna wavelight (because I can't afford the wavedream and I think the wavelight is described as being warmer)
Mojo Audio X lite (heard good things about the brand and also some users mentioning a good match with electrostatics since whatever dac I choose will also be used with my electrostatic amp.

Any thoughts, or dacs I might be missing in this selection?

Can't wait to hear the cfa3 with what I currently have, and I also have a zmf atrium on the way.


----------



## bfin3

omega1990 said:


> So I placed an order for a cfa3 from Dukei and was wondering about a dac recommendation/compliment to another dac I own that could go well with the cfa3.
> 
> My current dac is a berkley alpha series 2 dac and I really like the neutral, analog, reference, and a bit laid back sound that it has. I was looking for a dac that was quite the opposite of the berkley but with similar performance in detail and resolution. So a dac that is warm, forward, punchy, and dynamic.
> 
> ...


I had a Yggy Analog 2 with all the upgrades and went to the wavelight. I think they have a roughly equal value prop with the wavelight being about twice as much $ and being a reasonable step up in sound quality. The yggy is great though. Can't speak to the mojo but the holo May is the other highly regarded DAC around the wavelight price point. I haven't heard it, but a lot of people compare the two with performance about equal and choice just coming down to preference so if you can hear them both go for it.


----------



## paradoxper

omega1990 said:


> So I placed an order for a cfa3 from Dukei and was wondering about a dac recommendation/compliment to another dac I own that could go well with the cfa3.
> 
> My current dac is a berkley alpha series 2 dac and I really like the neutral, analog, reference, and a bit laid back sound that it has. I was looking for a dac that was quite the opposite of the berkley but with similar performance in detail and resolution. So a dac that is warm, forward, punchy, and dynamic.
> 
> ...


I run a Berkeley Reference 3 and have scaled from their Alpha Series along the way demoing xyz -- is there a particular reason you want to make the shift to a notably warm DAC? I really enjoy the Holo May most of current R2R but Wavelight and Wavedream more-so offer that excellent richness and tonal density although I might suggest try-before-you-buy to best avoid regret.

I would caution if you specifically are looking for a more forward and dynamic sounding DAC, the Yggdrasil would be a leading candidate.

In any event, the CFA3 is very transparent and will reveal the tonal character and flaws of whatever you put before it.


----------



## geoffalter11

omega1990 said:


> So I placed an order for a cfa3 from Dukei and was wondering about a dac recommendation/compliment to another dac I own that could go well with the cfa3.
> 
> My current dac is a berkley alpha series 2 dac and I really like the neutral, analog, reference, and a bit laid back sound that it has. I was looking for a dac that was quite the opposite of the berkley but with similar performance in detail and resolution. So a dac that is warm, forward, punchy, and dynamic.
> 
> ...


Those are all great DACs. As are the ones below. My buddy owns a Wavelight and loves it. Resolving and detailed with R2R musicality. The other to consider is the Denafrips Venus II or Termi II. The Venus II is essentially a Terminator I in a Pontus chassis. A bit smaller and less heavy. I would also suggest a DDC so you can utilize the Denafrips’s I2S input which is by far the best way to use a Denafrips. The Iris is fantastic for the money. If you want to spend $5000 or so, Wavelight or May. Less I would get a Venus II/Iris.


----------



## omega1990

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. As for getting a warm dac, I just want to have something to play with beside a neutral dac so I can change the dac flavors every now and again. 

Also I did not know that the venus ii was a terminator I in a smaller chassis, neat! I think that since I wanted the most forward and dynamic one I'll probably go with the yggdrasil and save some money in the process.

A berkley reference 3 would be an awesome upgrade but I don't think they go under $10k on the second hand market from what I remember.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I am no DAC expert- but I own a Audio-gd R-7HE.  With a external 10mhz clock- I think it would be very hard to beat at any price..


----------



## geoffalter11

rsbrsvp said:


> I am no DAC expert- but I own a Audio-gd R-7HE.  With a external 10mhz clock- I think it would be very hard to beat at any price..


I haven’t tried this DAC but hear great things.


----------



## Drakkard

Finally after about 2 months fully rebuild CFA3 is here  Basically everything is new.


----------



## paradoxper

Drakkard said:


> Finally after about 2 months fully rebuild CFA3 is here  Basically everything is new.


Definitely need to replace that top panel. Glad Kevin was able to help you. 

Now you can finally enjoy the CFA3 in its truthful glory.


----------



## Slim1970

Drakkard said:


> Finally after about 2 months fully rebuild CFA3 is here  Basically everything is new.


Who rebuilt this for you? The chassis is beautiful.


----------



## Drakkard

paradoxper said:


> Definitely need to replace that top panel. Glad Kevin was able to help you.


Thanks to Kevin and Dukei for assistance 
About the panel, well, yeah. May be someday, when I forget that I already overpaid for it more than I'm comfortable with 


Slim1970 said:


> Who rebuilt this for you? The chassis is beautiful.


Local master, not on this forum. Might be first CFA built in Russia.


----------



## fiiom11pro

Drakkard said:


> Finally after about 2 months fully rebuild CFA3 is here  Basically everything is new.


is that the "infamous" felitza audio who scammed people and has very nice chassis but terrible build?


----------



## fiiom11pro

ah ic. it was rebuilt.


----------



## PierPP

I see you have already received the welcome from our president, Paradox
Anyway ... welcome to the wonderfoul world of CFAers Society, @Drakkard


----------



## tumpux

The chassis is not that great when you have it in front of you.


----------



## tumpux

Drakkard said:


> Finally after about 2 months fully rebuild CFA3 is here  Basically everything is new.


including the power transformer?


----------



## Drakkard

tumpux said:


> including the power transformer?


Yes





tumpux said:


> The chassis is not that great when you have it in front of you.


I like it


----------



## migo (Apr 17, 2022)

Drakkard said:


> Finally after about 2 months fully rebuild CFA3 is here  Basically everything is new.


And how is it sounding now?


----------



## Drakkard (Apr 22, 2022)

migo said:


> And how is it sounding now?


It's hard to tell, I'm out of good headphones right now. I'd say it sounded very well before, and definitely not worse now  I like it more than beta22, which was the best headphone amp I listened to date, but that is without direct comparison. I might do it later, I have several friends with balanced beta around


----------



## MN8372

Would the new T1-1a RAAL interface for headphone amps work well with the CFA3?  Any reason to go this route over the old speaker amp interface?


----------



## paradoxper

MN8372 said:


> Would the new T1-1a RAAL interface for headphone amps work well with the CFA3?  Any reason to go this route over the old speaker amp interface?


The CFA3 likely directly drives a RAAL much better. The T1-1a is a bit better suited to lower output amplification. So to vs speaker amplification, again, a bit applicable to more lowered powered alternatives rather than 100W beasties.


----------



## kevin gilmore

i can't find any back pictures of the t1 so make sure you hook cfa3 up balanced to the balanced connectors only.


----------



## sahmen

You guys are going to kill me.  I have been thinking of getting the CFA3 as a sort of "endgame" SS headamp, and calling it a day...  And yet I am seeing all manner of additional nicks and knacks that others are adding to it for even more optimization... i.e. pre-amp this, and tube-pre that, super-duper sexy NOS tube...etc. etc Aaaaarghhh!

Maybe the word "endgame" should be banned from head-fi as a hopelessly unsustainable delusion...

Now you've all gone and turned me into some frigging babbling philosopher

And I still haven't even ordered the CFA3 yet


----------



## paradoxper

S


sahmen said:


> You guys are going to kill me.  I have been thinking of getting the CFA3 as a sort of "endgame" SS headamp, and calling it a day...  And yet I am seeing all manner of additional nicks and knacks that others are adding to it for even more optimization... i.e. pre-amp this, and tube-pre that, super-duper sexy NOS tube...etc. etc Aaaaarghhh!
> 
> Maybe the word "endgame" should be banned from head-fi as a hopelessly unsustainable delusion...
> 
> ...


Stop mucking about.


----------



## sahmen

paradoxper said:


> S
> 
> Stop mucking about.


Why should you have all the fun?  This ain't fair!  Btw. I want my CFA3.  Gotta act on that soon!


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> Why should you have all the fun?  This ain't fair!  Btw. I want my CFA3.  Gotta act on that soon!


Honestly my fun is done now with a 300B pre. I can't improve which is boring. 

Carry on.


----------



## rsbrsvp

paradoxper said:


> Honestly my fun is done now with a 300B pre. I can't improve which is boring.
> 
> Carry on.


I thought the Freya with the Meltz pre before the CFA-3 was the end game??  Where did the 300B come from?

I'm loosing track...


----------



## normie610

rsbrsvp said:


> I thought the Freya with the Meltz pre before the CFA-3 was the end game??  Where did the 300B come from?
> 
> I'm loosing track...


@paradoxper is a little late to the 300B preamp party I guess 😁


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 23, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> I thought the Freya with the Meltz pre before the CFA-3 was the end game??  Where did the 300B come from?
> 
> I'm loosing track...


I'm late to the party, but yes, I brought my Melz to a 300B dance. Sublime.


----------



## sahmen

What is a 300B anyway? I know of a FELIKS AUDIO ARIOSO 300B, but it's an integrated Amp, whereas what's bring mentioned here sounds like a pre amp..


----------



## normie610

sahmen said:


> What is a 300B anyway? I know of a FELIKS AUDIO ARIOSO 300B, but it's an integrated Amp, whereas what's bring mentioned here sounds like a pre amp..


300B is a type of tube. It has this absolutely wonderful sound characteristics. 300Bs are typically used in amps, only a handful of preamp use 300B as the output tube.


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> What is a 300B anyway? I know of a FELIKS AUDIO ARIOSO 300B, but it's an integrated Amp, whereas what's bring mentioned here sounds like a pre amp..


It's a tube type. I decided on a tube pre to inject coloration into the CFA3.
And boy, it's, well, realized.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> It's a tube type. I decided on a tube pre to inject coloration into the CFA3.
> And boy, it's, well, realized.


Is that a Mullard GZ37 rectifier?


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Is that a Mullard GZ37 rectifier?


Good eye! Pretty good complement, right.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Good eye! Pretty good complement, right.


Yep it’s good. But now I prefer NOS Mullard CV1377 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Yep it’s good. But now I prefer NOS Mullard CV1377 😁


I had initial plans to pursue the 274B, however rectifiers are nominal in change and I can't honestly be bothered to tube roll.

I'm too satisfied to try.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> I had initial plans to pursue the 274B, however rectifiers are nominal in change and I can't honestly be bothered to tube roll.
> 
> I'm too satisfied to try.


Yeah if you’re satisfied then don’t bother. The rectifier on the Neo usually affect the bottom end so it’s a good way of fine tuning that area of sound.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Yeah if you’re satisfied then don’t bother. The rectifier on the Neo usually affect the bottom end so it’s a good way of fine tuning that area of sound.


Talk to me when I roll out of boredom (not going to actually happen).


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Talk to me when I roll out of boredom (not going to actually happen).


Hahahaha just enjoy your boredom 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Hahahaha just enjoy your boredom 😁


yes yes master.


----------



## tumpux

In my experience most of 300B fans will one day graduate to 2A3. 
One day..


----------



## paradoxper

tumpux said:


> In my experience most of 300B fans will one day graduate to 2A3.
> One day..


Bah. Luckily my pre is switchable to 2A3 and 45. But no, 300B is unmatched.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 24, 2022)

normie610 said:


> 300B is a type of tube. It has this absolutely wonderful sound characteristics. 300Bs are typically used in amps, only a handful of preamp use 300B as the output tube.


The Manley 300b pre amp I have seen does look imposingly impressive, but it is more expensive than either of my two current primary amps (Niimbus US4 and Pathos InPol Ear), not to mention more than twice the price of a fully equipped version of the CFA3.  Are there any less expensive ways for adding the 300B tube itself to a chain, by which I mean, less expensive pre amps that are compatible with the 300b?

PS : I just did a quick search and saw a few DiY models of 300b preamps that are not as expensive (e.g. a bottlehead Crack version), but still I'm unable to assess independently how good these alternatives are...  Oh well... I am not sweating too much on this 300b tube issue though, so it is all good.


----------



## normie610

sahmen said:


> The Manley 300b pre amp I have seen does look imposingly impressive, but it is more expensive than either of my two current primary amps (Niimbus US4 and Pathos InPol Ear), not to mention more than twice the price of a fully equipped version of the CFA3.  Are there any less expensive ways for adding the 300B tube itself to a chain, by which I mean, less expensive pre amps that are compatible with the 300b?
> 
> PS : I just did a quick search and saw a few DiY models of 300b preamps that are not as expensive (e.g. a bottlehead Crack version), but still I'm unable to assess independently how good these alternatives are...  Oh well... I am not sweating too much on this 300b tube issue though, so it is all good.


@paradoxper is using Supratek Cabernet DHT, which is reasonably priced compared to the Manley.


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> The Manley 300b pre amp I have seen does look imposingly impressive, but it is more expensive than either of my two current primary amps (Niimbus US4 and Pathos InPol Ear), not to mention more than twice the price of a fully equipped version of the CFA3.  Are there any less expensive ways for adding the 300B tube itself to a chain, by which I mean, less expensive pre amps that are compatible with the 300b?
> 
> PS : I just did a quick search and saw a few DiY models of 300b preamps that are not as expensive (e.g. a bottlehead Crack version), but still I'm unable to assess independently how good these alternatives are...  Oh well... I am not sweating too much on this 300b tube issue though, so it is all good.


I wouldn't cut corners. I am using a Cabernet DHT, however, this was built with sole use for headphone application. 

Your best bet is to play the used market, virtually any prospected gear falls in the $3-5k range. If you go custom, cut the options down to reduce pricing.

I'm of the opinion 300B amps will always run soft in bass response and soft in treble extension, it's just their nature. Cheating with a highly resolving brute such as CFA3 almost has zero concession. The omission is the bass bloom is still resonant although far, far less and in an appreciably enjoyable presentation.


----------



## jjshin23

Running CFA3 with DNA Stratus with 300B tubes and sounding very good. Softens the sound without drop in detail. Soundstages seems to have gotten wider as well.


----------



## genefruit

jjshin23 said:


> Running CFA3 with DNA Stratus with 300B tubes and sounding very good. Softens the sound without drop in detail. Soundstages seems to have gotten wider as well.


interesting - DNA are 2A3 based amps.  Or are you calling 300B 2.5V tubes 300B?


----------



## jjshin23

yes it is the 2.5v 300B from Sophia Elec. with the Mullard GZ37


----------



## paradoxper

jjshin23 said:


> Running CFA3 with DNA Stratus with 300B tubes and sounding very good. Softens the sound without drop in detail. Soundstages seems to have gotten wider as well.


You may be better off with the 45 especially Globe. A more pronounced stage and space than true 300B and a little more resolution sweeping with more sweetness.
I can imagine the 2.5v are a step in the right direction.


----------



## jjshin23

paradoxper said:


> You may be better off with the 45 especially Globe. A more pronounced stage and space than true 300B and a little more resolution sweeping with more sweetness.
> I can imagine the 2.5v are a step in the right direction.


Interesting and agree. Didn't think about that until you bring it up. Now to go hunting for tubes...


----------



## Hiker816

Hi Everyone,

I'm excited to join the CFA3 family!  I am the very lucky purchaser of @littlej0e 's tricked-out CFA3.  And it is awesome.  The first thing I noticed was instrument separation that blew everything else I've ever listened to out of the water.  My ZMF VCs out of the XLR out have never sounded better.  (In fact, my Pendant SE is now for sale, if you know anyone interested:   https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/zmf-pendant-se-headphone-amp-optional-tube-bundle.24900/).

I'd like to use the CFA3 to drive my RAAL-requisite SR1a as well.  (In fact, ideally, I was hoping the CFA3 would replace my HSA-1b).  The question is how to do that.  I tried connecting the speaker taps on the CFA3 to the RAAL-requisite interface box and that to my SR1a.  That works, but . . . the first interface box I got had a channel imbalance, and Danny and David from RAAL-requisite were incredibly helpful and sent me out a second box to help troubleshoot.  The second box doesn't have the channel imbalance.  However, I'm getting some distortion primarily in the mid-bass and losing some of the quieter detail out of the speaker taps on both of those interface boxes.  The combination of the facts that (1) this doesn't happen (a) out of the headphone outs on the CFA3 when using my ZMF VCs, or (b) when using my HSA-1b instead of the CFA3 to drive the SR1a, and that (2) the distortion and detail loss happens with both interface boxes and after I've moved speaker wires around, makes me think it's the speaker taps on the CFA3.  @Dukei has been extremely helpful over PM in helping me troubleshoot.  (Shout out to Danny and David from RAAL-requisite, and Dukei, who have really gone above and beyond!).  However, Dukei thinks it might simply be that the CFA3 doesn't have the power output through the speaker taps to be in its ideal range when driving the SR1a.

So, I was hoping the hive mind here might help.  Should I try the new RAAL-requisite TI-1a interface box connected to the XLR out on the CFA3?  Or is there a better way to drive the SR1a from the CFA3?

Thanks in advance!  (Also, I'm kind of a luddite when it comes to tech, so please forgive me if I described anything incorrectly, or if I have trouble following your suggestions initially).


----------



## normie610 (May 4, 2022)

Hiker816 said:


> So, I was hoping the hive mind here might help. Should I try the new RAAL-requisite TI-1a interface box connected to the XLR out on the CFA3? Or is there a better way to drive the SR1a from the CFA3?


This could be the ideal solution. However, I use CFA3 with SR1a through the interface box and to my ears it sounds excellent, I hear no distortion on the mid-bass at all. FYI, I use EQ out of Roon so maybe this helps.


----------



## Hiker816

normie610 said:


> This could be the ideal solution. However, I use CFA3 with SR1a through the interface box and to my ears it sounds excellent, I hear no distortion on the mid-bass at all. FYI, I use EQ out of Roon so maybe this helps.


Thanks!  I presume your CFA3 has speaker taps, too, and that's what you're connecting to the interface box?


----------



## normie610

Hiker816 said:


> Thanks!  I presume your CFA3 has speaker taps, too, and that's what you're connecting to the interface box?


That’s correct.


----------



## jlbrach

Hiker816 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm excited to join the CFA3 family!  I am the very lucky purchaser of @littlej0e 's tricked-out CFA3.  And it is awesome.  The first thing I noticed was instrument separation that blew everything else I've ever listened to out of the water.  My ZMF VCs out of the XLR out have never sounded better.  (In fact, my Pendant SE is now for sale, if you know anyone interested:   https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/zmf-pendant-se-headphone-amp-optional-tube-bundle.24900/).
> 
> ...


I just received the new Tl box and I am using it with my bakoon 13r and sria and I am very pleased...I bet it would be great with the CFA3


----------



## rsbrsvp

Has anyone tried a LCD-4 on the CFA-3?


----------



## rsbrsvp (May 8, 2022)

delete


----------



## Clsmooth391 (May 6, 2022)

If anyone is interested in a maxed out CFA3 with separate golden reference psu and speaker taps + RK27 motorized pot with remote control, please drop me a message.

It's one of the last Dukei builds for now. He may not build again.


----------



## chargedcapacitor

Clsmooth391 said:


> If anyone is interested in a maxed out CFA3 with separate golden reference psu and speaker taps + RK27 motorized pot with remote control, please drop me a message.
> 
> It's one of the last Dukei builds for now. He may not build again.


PM'd


----------



## Clsmooth391

Sorry, this has now sold.


----------



## linshu1992

Happy to say I've just asked Dukei to do a new build for me. I'm probably one of the last ones to jump on the train since he's no longer taking new commissions after this week. I have a WA33 which I will test against & as the preamp to the CFA3.


----------



## fiiom11pro

There will be a Kerry's version soon...

Both are great builders.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

Kerry's version is for Q3 of this year at the earliest


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Kerry's version is for Q3 of this year at the earliest


Suckers.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> Suckers.



Haha, I'm perfectly content to continue enjoying my Dynahi in the meanwhile.


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Haha, I'm perfectly content to continue enjoying my Dynahi in the meanwhile.


And too few actually know how great the Dynahi is also.


----------



## MDR30

paradoxper said:


> And too few actually know how great the Dynahi is also.


I don't know if we are few, but my impressions agree with yours. It performs stunningly.


----------



## makan

Clsmooth391 said:


> If anyone is interested in a maxed out CFA3 with separate golden reference psu and speaker taps + RK27 motorized pot with remote control, please drop me a message.
> 
> It's one of the last Dukei builds for now. He may not build again.


For those interested, I purchased this CFA3 but am making the difficult decision to move it along for anyone who is interested.  The footprint is a little too big for my listening station


----------



## Hiker816

Hiker816 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm excited to join the CFA3 family!  I am the very lucky purchaser of @littlej0e 's tricked-out CFA3.  And it is awesome.  The first thing I noticed was instrument separation that blew everything else I've ever listened to out of the water.  My ZMF VCs out of the XLR out have never sounded better.  (In fact, my Pendant SE is now for sale, if you know anyone interested:   https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/zmf-pendant-se-headphone-amp-optional-tube-bundle.24900/).
> 
> ...


I am replying to my own message because I've completely resolved the distortion/noise/loss of detail issue with my CFA3, and figured I would post the solution in case it helps anyone else.  The bias on one of the phases had drifted.  A simple turn of a small screw inside the amp, and now the sound is mind-blowingly phenomenal not only through the XLR out, but also out of the speaker taps through the RAAL-requisite interface box to my SR1a.   Seriously, phenomenal.  

I need to give a HUGE shout-out to @Dukei, the amp builder.  Through dozens of PMs, he helped me trouble shoot.  As we were narrowing down the problem, he provided detailed instructions with annotated photographs to walk me through testing various components with a multimeter to identify the problem, and then to fix it.  With his incredibly great instructions, the testing and fix ended up being surprisingly easy, even for a complete luddite like me.  What makes this even more amazing is that I am the second owner.  I haven't paid Dukei anything, yet he still spent a ton of time helping me out.  I'm frankly still stunned.  

You've probably seen some posts about Dukei stepping away from DIY builds.  I was worried about the huge loss for the audiophile community that would create.  Thankfully, this is because he is transitioning to building amps professionally.  He gave me the green light to share that he will be back in the fall with something very interesting for the headphone community.  I'm excited to see what he has in store.  Whatever it is, I recommend you buy it immediately.  Dukei is a great builder, provides great customer service, and is a great guy.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Dukei is NOT NORMAL- not by todays standards of normal.  He is a very very special person who is unusually honest, kind, helpful, talented, easy going, etc.........


----------



## chesebert

Nice...it looks like there will be commercially available CFAs offered by 3 different but equally awesome builders. I can't wait for Q1 2023.


----------



## normie610

Hiker816 said:


> through the RAAL-requisite interface box to my SR1a. Seriously, phenomenal.


Yep it is phenomenal. I’ve been saying this from day 1 and was told by a number of people that it’s impossible for SR1a to sound good since CFA3 doesn’t have the 100W power output recommended by RAAL. Well it’s good to know that someone else shares my opinion 😊 happy listening!


----------



## jlbrach

normie610 said:


> Yep it is phenomenal. I’ve been saying this from day 1 and was told by a number of people that it’s impossible for SR1a to sound good since CFA3 doesn’t have the 100W power output recommended by RAAL. Well it’s good to know that someone else shares my opinion 😊 happy listening!


actually I believe the cfa3 does have the required 100w into 4 ohms I think called for


----------



## Ethereal Sound

chesebert said:


> Nice...it looks like there will be commercially available CFAs offered by 3 different but equally awesome builders. I can't wait for Q1 2023.



Which three/


----------



## chesebert (May 30, 2022)

Ethereal Sound said:


> Which three/


Kerry, Dukei and one other I cannot name (no permission from the manufacturer).

Waiting patiently… 😣


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> Kerry, Dukei and one other I cannot name (no permission from the manufacturer).
> 
> Waiting patiently… 😣


It's Justin. DUH.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

paradoxper said:


> It's Justin. DUH.



Aha, not sure if you're joking but I did ask him personally at AXPONA and he said they aren't.


----------



## paradoxper

Ethereal Sound said:


> Aha, not sure if you're joking but I did ask him personally at AXPONA and he said they aren't.


Well, Jeff Wells sure as hell isn't competent enough to build Gilmore design.

I took my stab. Doug is too clever a man, I'm out of ideas.

It won't matter unless duke changes some significant things, he can't scale to Kerry's level.

A big price differentiator is his best hope.

Eksonic is a win for the people.


----------



## Hiker816

For whatever it's worth, Dukei didn't tell me what he's working on for the fall.  I don't know if it's a CFA build.


----------



## paradoxper

He'll probably move to SMD. We'll see about the topology. Supply chain logistics aside from the other very, very pertinent issues duke faced are challenges.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jun 2, 2022)

I received my CFA-3.

It indeed sounds excellent.   It is the most neutral, non-colored, "RAW" sounding headphone amplifier I ever heard.  In the last few weeks, I have had the opportunity to hear four headphone amplifiers.  Here is by very brief summary.

1.  Amp. 23-R: Fuzzy, Bloated, soft.  Just terrible IMHO.
2.  Oor/Hypsos: Delicately and tastefully treated with a analogue sweetness.  I don't think I would call it a coloration in the classic sense.  Rather a treatment; like fine wine. Totally non-glare, non-harsh, ever so slightly rounded in the most tasteful way. Delicate, yet powerful.  Excellent transparency and detail.  Superb depth.  Superb midrange.  Just beautiful sound.
3. CFA-3.  Raw, completely uncolored, smooth, hefty, muscular.  If I want coloration- it must come from elsewhere.
4.  audio-gd  HE-9.   Has some analogue warmth like the Oor, and much of the muscular heft like the CFA-3 (but not as much and not as raw).  Kind of a hybrid, but not exactly.  It is a bit more complex to explain. I never would have called this amplifier colored until I heard the CFA-3 to compare with.  This amplifier also presents the most micro-detail of all four IMHO.

2,3, and 4 are all excellent options depending on ones goals.  I am trying some tube coloration using a audio-gd HE-1 vacuum tube-preamp before the CFA-3 in an attempt to give it some of the Oor/Hypsos beauty treatment.   So far, I like it a lot.  In a way- it is not to far off from a muscular, heftier version of the oor/hypsos.  Like I took the oor/Hypsos and put it on steroids.  The audio-gd tube preamp and CFA-3 combination is a more accurate and preferable hybrid of the oor/hypsos traits and CFA-3 traits than the HE-9, as it involves very little compromise.  Meaning, it is a combination which is not extracting a middle ground presentation but rather bringing out 90% of the best of both.

All this is GENERAL impressions.....


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jun 2, 2022)

By the way, the gain stages on the CFA-3 are not just about gain (or volume).  They effect the sound signature.  More gain= more heft, more fullness, more front row, more energy.  Lower gain= more relaxed, further back, thinned (not in a bad way).


----------



## paradoxper (Jun 2, 2022)

Congrats!

The CFA3 and TC is just such a powerful combination. Have you compared w/pre/without to key in on some signature differences?
This is where I feel you scale to a special place that sounds as good as anything I've heard. I keep saying it's like a master cheat code.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I'm not sure I like the CFA-3 with audio-gd tube preamp over the CFA-3 alone.  My ears have not heard tubes in many years so I need time to get used to the sound.  As of now, CFA-3 with and without tube preamp is IMHO equal but different.  The preamp adds some soundstage, holography, mild but pleasant distortion, air, and some romantic expression- all which is very pleasant with minimal but nevertheless some damage to the purity of the CFA-3 alone; but the CFA-3 alone is so so neutral and raw, and uncolored- it is just incredible on it's own without any altering.

I really need more time to digest all of this.  I think the TC sounds great out of the CFA-3, but so does the ES-R10.  I think any headphone would sound it's best out of this amplifier.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> I'm not sure I like the CFA-3 with audio-gd tube preamp over the CFA-3 alone.  My ears have not heard tubes in many years so I need time to get used to the sound.  As of now, CFA-3 with and without tube preamp is IMHO equal but different.  The preamp adds some soundstage, holography, mild but pleasant distortion, air, and some romantic expression- all which is very pleasant with minimal but nevertheless some damage to the purity of the CFA-3 alone; but the CFA-3 alone is so so neutral and raw, and uncolored- it is just incredible on it's own without any altering.
> 
> I really need more time to digest all of this.  I think the TC sounds great out of the CFA-3, but so does the ES-R10.  I think any headphone would sound it's best out of this amplifier.


I just dialed in my tube suite that I will stock up on. I hope you can do some tube rolling.

Have a blast.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I am shocked at how sensitive this amp. is to any changes.  I changed one thing around an hour ago;- my coax connection cable from my DDC to my DAC and it added so much tonal color relative to the initial cable I had in there;- I could not believe I was listening to the same system.

I am really just getting to know this amplifier..    I need time to experiment....


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

rsbrsvp said:


> I am shocked at how sensitive this amp. is to any changes.  I changed one thing around an hour ago;- my coax connection cable from my DDC to my DAC and it added so much tonal color relative to the initial cable I had in there;- I could not believe I was listening to the same system.
> 
> I am really just getting to know this amplifier..    I need time to experiment....



Digging the impressions. I must say I'm pretty surprised to hear that the 23-R didn't live up your standards! Glad I ended up going with a CFA3 build from Dukei, which should be wrapping up fairly soon. 

Hearing about the CFA3's transparency has me very intrigued since I've been fine tuning my source chain in the past couple months and have it in a great spot. I don't think I'll need a pre-amplifier since the SFD-2 MKII (Dual UltraAnalog D20400A + passive tube output stage) features amazing tonality on top of speed, precision and fluidity. I think the CFA3's qualities will complement it perfectly. Should be a treat for the ears!


----------



## rsbrsvp

FOUNDERZERO said:


> Digging the impressions. I must say I'm pretty surprised to hear that the 23-R didn't live up your standards! Glad I ended up going with a CFA3 build from Dukei, which should be wrapping up fairly soon.
> 
> Hearing about the CFA3's transparency has me very intrigued since I've been fine tuning my source chain in the past couple months and have it in a great spot. I don't think I'll need a pre-amplifier since the SFD-2 MKII (Dual UltraAnalog D20400A + passive tube output stage) features amazing tonality on top of speed, precision and fluidity. I think the CFA3's qualities will complement it perfectly. Should be a treat for the ears!


To tell you the truth- I'm not sure at all if Ill be keeping the CFA-3.   It may be to honest for me....   It is an incredible amplifier- but if I can't color it properly, I may just get the oor/hypsos.  I'm not joking...  I need time to play with it....


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> To tell you the truth- I'm not sure at all if Ill be keeping the CFA-3.   It may be to honest for me....   It is an incredible amplifier- but if I can't color it properly, I may just get the oor/hypsos.  I'm not joking...  I need time to play with it....


It's a real pain, try out a 300B pre. It is that touch of "there" that completes a incredible ceiling.

both @normie610 and I will show you the way.


----------



## rsbrsvp

After careful consideration, I have decided to part ways with my CFA-3.  Fully maxed out.  Please contact me if interested.

I'm going with the oor/hypsos..


----------



## decur

The cfa3 is the most revealing of upstream components of any amp that i have owned in my lifetime!
what comes out of cfa3 in sound quality is a reflection of how great or mediocre or terrible your dac/musicserver/ transport is…


----------



## K3cT

rsbrsvp said:


> After careful consideration, I have decided to part ways with my CFA-3.  Fully maxed out.  Please contact me if interested.
> 
> I'm going with the oor/hypsos..



The OOR is that good huh? I listened to it last weekend with the Diana TC and it sounded quite polite with a smallish soundstage. The sweet colouration is pretty nice though.


----------



## chesebert (Jun 17, 2022)

K3cT said:


> The OOR is that good huh? I listened to it last weekend with the Diana TC and it sounded quite polite with a smallish soundstage. The sweet colouration is pretty nice though.


Not THAT good. Just a nice pleasing warm sound that go well with substandard digital sounding source or hyper analytical cans.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

Has anyone tried Aurorus Audio's Borealis or Australis with the CFA3? Pretty interested in either of these as a dynamic set.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jun 18, 2022)

K3cT said:


> The OOR is that good huh? I listened to it last weekend with the Diana TC and it sounded quite polite with a smallish soundstage. The sweet colouration is pretty nice though.





chesebert said:


> Not THAT good. Just a nice pleasing warm sound that go well with substandard digital sounding source or hyper analytical cans.


Both of these comments are somewhat correct IMHO.    It is more polite.  The sweet coloration of the oor is IMHO addictive.  The CFA-3 is much more revealing, has ZERO sweetness of tone because it is just raw uncolored music.   Yes- the CFA excels over the oor in most technical measures including extension, detail, transparency and soundstage to name just a few.  However, to be fair, the oor has the more correct midrange presence and fullness (by a good amount) as the CFA-3 midrange is IMHO heavily compromised probably as a result of the superior extension and soundstage. Midrange presence is VERY important to me and I consider this a serious flaw. By the way, although the oor is somewhat polite, it can still punch pretty hard- just has a gentleness behind the punch. I know that may sound like a contradiction, but IMHO it is a correct explanation.

TONE has always been the most important aspect of headphone listening to me.  The oor has it- and it is supremely beautiful while remaining very transparent. It sounds much more like real music with a beautiful analogue sweetness that IMHO is nearly perfect.  Live music is not IMHO as raw and sterile sounding as the CFA-3 presents it.  The CFA-3 is a very digital sounding piece of equipment which brings out technical prowess beyond anything I thought possible, but that does not mean it is more pleasant to listen to or more correct..

The CFA-3 can be tonally colored with a preamp as many have said- and perhaps one can get the best of both worlds...  I have not succeeded in coloring the CFA-3 correctly and at this point I prefer it with no preamp; raw, and uncolored. The preamps I have tried ruin the raw sharpness of the presentation which make it so unique.  These preamps round the sound- however slightly and diminish (however slightly) the stunning microdetail retrieval, and so far- I don't like the results.  The CFA-3 needs to be left alone accepting it's many strengths and few shortcomings IMHO as it is. True, the oor is already rounded- but they got it down in a way that just sounds right.  It was built and intended to be a rounded presentation- and it was done extraordinarily well.

I am very much leaning to keeping both amps...   The are TOTALLY different in their presentation each having a place in my heart.  The oor sounds way more like real live music IMHO and brings me pleasure through it's transparency and beautiful tone, but the CFA-3 is technically superior in almost every area and brings me pleasure through it's stunning accuracy and power .

I respect anyone who disagrees with my analysis.  We all have different ears, and different souls.  This is my take on the two amps and not necessarily anyone else's..  Head-fi is a place for sharing opinions and learning together.


----------



## paradoxper

Nods. Keep it.

I know the CFA3 and Elrog 300B has achieved that place I've been searching for. I hope you're there too.


----------



## sahmen

rsbrsvp said:


> Both of these comments are somewhat correct IMHO.    It is more polite.  The sweet coloration of the oor is IMHO addictive.  The CFA-3 is much more revealing, has ZERO sweetness of tone because it is just raw uncolored music.   Yes- the CFA excels over the oor in most technical measures including extension, detail, transparency and soundstage to name just a few.  However, to be fair, the oor has the more correct midrange presence and fullness (by a good amount) as the CFA-3 midrange is IMHO heavily compromised probably as a result of the superior extension and soundstage. Midrange presence is VERY important to me and I consider this a serious flaw. By the way, although the oor is somewhat polite, it can still punch pretty hard- just has a gentleness behind the punch. I know that may sound like a contradiction, but IMHO it is a correct explanation.
> 
> TONE has always been the most important aspect of headphone listening to me.  The oor has it- and it is supremely beautiful while remaining very transparent. It sounds much more like real music with a beautiful analogue sweetness that IMHO is nearly perfect.  Live music is not IMHO as raw and sterile sounding as the CFA-3 presents it.  The CFA-3 is a very digital sounding piece of equipment which brings out technical prowess beyond anything I thought possible, but that does not mean it is more pleasant to listen to or more correct..
> 
> ...


Not in a position to agree or disagree as I am not familiar with either amp.  Still, I actually find the comparative analysis to be very helpful except for the fact that you do not mention any DAC in assessing the sonic end product of either amp, and I am not sure how to interpret that omission. You seem to be more preoccupied with how a preamp might color the sound of the CFA3, but what about the impact of DACs?  I am not sure whether you're implying that DACs are of no consequence in shaping the sonic end-product at all in either case, or whether the  omission is simply a blind spot in the analysis.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jun 18, 2022)

I am using a Mytek Liberty 2 dac.  This dac is essentiality pretty neutral. I did not think to bring the dac into the equation because it does not fundamentally change the reality of the how each amp. sounds.  I used the same dac, same cables, source, headphones, etc. for both amps.  I only changed the headphone amplifiers.  So- all other factors were constant,

I think this is essentially reasonably fair.   My intention was not to praise or demote either headphone amplifier but to analyze their inborn traits.  Perhaps, a tube dac, or highly SS colored dac may match up better with the CFA-3 but that it not the point.  I admitted in my analysis that the CFA-3 may in fact be able to be colored properly, but that "I" have not found the proper way to color it yet.  Others have claimed they have and I am happy for them.  I doubt however that any coloration will not take away somewhat from the uniquely sharp and incisive nature which makes the CFA-3 so special.  The essential nature of the CFA-3- is IMHO a raw, naked, ultra transparent presentation with enormous power, control and finesse.  It is also IMHO by it's nature somewhat "sterile" sounding and lacking midrange presence. And the oor/hypsos by nature is is all about analogue sweetness done right.  It is also by it's nature, polite, or softer, and more limited in it's soundstage and extension to name just a few limitations.  It can be modified somewhat even separate of the dac by changing the Hypsos voltage, but it nevertheless remains essentially what it is based on it's DNA and no DAC will fundamentally change that.

Please don't take my analysis personally.  Cognitive dissonance plays a big role in headfi as people feel a need to defend their purchases at all costs.  The CFA-3 is an INCREDIBLE component; but pretending it is perfect and pleasing to everyone's ears is an injustice.  Same with the OOR or anything else.


----------



## UntilThen

rsbrsvp said:


> TONE has always been the most important aspect of headphone listening to me.



Amen to that.


----------



## jjshin23

rsbrsvp said:


> I am using a Mytek Liberty 2 dac.  This dac is essentiality pretty neutral. I did not think to bring the dac into the equation because it does not fundamentally change the reality of the how each amp. sounds.  I used the same dac, same cables, source, headphones, etc. for both amps.  I only changed the headphone amplifiers.  So- all other factors were constant,
> 
> I think this is essentially reasonably fair.   My intention was not to praise or demote either headphone amplifier but to analyze their inborn traits.  Perhaps, a tube dac, or highly SS colored dac may match up better with the CFA-3 but that it not the point.  I admitted in my analysis that the CFA-3 may in fact be able to be colored properly, but that "I" have not found the proper way to color it yet.  Others have claimed they have and I am happy for them.  I doubt however that any coloration will not take away somewhat from the uniquely sharp and incisive nature which makes the CFA-3 so special.  The essential nature of the CFA-3- is IMHO a raw, naked, ultra transparent presentation with enormous power, control and finesse.  It is also IMHO by it's nature somewhat "sterile" sounding and lacking midrange presence. And the oor/hypsos by nature is is all about analogue sweetness done right.  It is also by it's nature, polite, or softer, and more limited in it's soundstage and extension to name just a few limitations.  It can be modified somewhat even separate of the dac by changing the Hypsos voltage, but it nevertheless remains essentially what it is based on it's DNA and no DAC will fundamentally change that.
> 
> Please don't take my analysis personally.  Cognitive dissonance plays a big role in headfi as people feel a need to defend their purchases at all costs.  The CFA-3 is an INCREDIBLE component; but pretending it is perfect and pleasing to everyone's ears is an injustice.  Same with the OOR or anything else.


Appreciate your thoughts and opinions of what you like and not so much. Because of preferences like this, it has helped me develop my taste of what I like as well. For almost exactly the opposite reasons I like the sound I like and enjoy. Since I enjoy the midrange so much I have to push it back a little to enjoy the full canvas of the music. It almost balances the music for me. I completely respect the sound you enjoy because it works for you. Thanks again for your humble opinions of your likes and dislikes and explaining why. I’m sure it will help others understand how chains work for different people.


----------



## rsbrsvp

jjshin23 said:


> Appreciate your thoughts and opinions of what you like and not so much. Because of preferences like this, it has helped me develop my taste of what I like as well. For almost exactly the opposite reasons I like the sound I like and enjoy. Since I enjoy the midrange so much I have to push it back a little to enjoy the full canvas of the music. It almost balances the music for me. I completely respect the sound you enjoy because it works for you. Thanks again for your humble opinions of your likes and dislikes and explaining why. I’m sure it will help others understand how chains work for different people.


Your welcome..


----------



## sahmen (Jun 20, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> Please don't take my analysis personally.


I'm not. I'm just curious about how both amps might fare with A DAC, in my case, an NOS/R-2R DAC.

Thanks for your elaborate response.


----------



## MN8372

For what it is worth, I use a CFA3 with a Holo Audio May and it is  a fantastic paring.  No harshness at all.  Clean, clear and punchy - yes.  But also very refined in the sense that there is lots of control and no harshness.  I personally would not use words like sterile or raw to describe this amplifier - but that’s just my take.   Not knocking the Orr because I haven’t heard it (and historically I have tended to prefer a warmer more natural tonality - it’s just that I am getting great tonality out of my CFA3).

In my view the source does matter a lot with an amp of this calibre.  I’ve thought about pairing with a tube pre-amp (largely due to recommendations on this thread from paradoxper and normie) but I’m  in no rush.  If I do get a tube pre-amp I would want it to double up as a stand-alone amp (can’t wait for more reviews of the Feliks Envy..).  But again no rush and not sure if it will be worth it in my system with my headphones (I don’t currently have brighter headphones like the SR1A or TC - although one of those will be my next move I think).


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jul 10, 2022)

MN8372 said:


> For what it is worth, I use a CFA3 with a Holo Audio May and it is  a fantastic paring.  No harshness at all.  Clean, clear and punchy - yes.  But also very refined in the sense that there is lots of control and no harshness.  I personally would not use words like sterile or raw to describe this amplifier - but that’s just my take.   Not knocking the Orr because I haven’t heard it (and historically I have tended to prefer a warmer more natural tonality - it’s just that I am getting great tonality out of my CFA3).
> 
> In my view the source does matter a lot with an amp of this calibre.  I’ve thought about pairing with a tube pre-amp (largely due to recommendations on this thread from paradoxper and normie) but I’m  in no rush.  If I do get a tube pre-amp I would want it to double up as a stand-alone amp (can’t wait for more reviews of the Feliks Envy..).  But again no rush and not sure if it will be worth it in my system with my headphones (I don’t currently have brighter headphones like the SR1A or TC - although one of those will be my next move I think).


I do agree that the dac paring does make a difference- of course.  I just believe the general nature of the CFA-3 is extraordinarily raw and revealing and that nature cannot be changed.  DAC, preamp, or cables can deliver smoother, fuller, tubier, tonally colored, or any other kind of music-- but whatever is delivered to the CFA-3, will be revealed.  I do believe a more tonally colored source would be revealed as such in the CFA-3.  I just don't have one myself.  My system is very neutral and I believe this is my problem; perhaps no one else's problem..

Based on my minimal experience with the amp. I would advise people who want some color to get it in a dac or preamp, or cables.  If one has a very neutral system, it will not IMHO sound pleasant with the CFA-3.  To dry, to sterile..


----------



## rsbrsvp

Has anyone tried a tube dac or a more saturated sounding dac like a Terminator plus with the CFA-3?


----------



## K3cT

What headphone do you use again? @rsbrsvp


----------



## rsbrsvp

TC and ES-R10


----------



## normie610

MN8372 said:


> For what it is worth, I use a CFA3 with a Holo Audio May and it is  a fantastic paring.  No harshness at all.  Clean, clear and punchy - yes.  But also very refined in the sense that there is lots of control and no harshness.  I personally would not use words like sterile or raw to describe this amplifier - but that’s just my take.   Not knocking the Orr because I haven’t heard it (and historically I have tended to prefer a warmer more natural tonality - it’s just that I am getting great tonality out of my CFA3).
> 
> In my view the source does matter a lot with an amp of this calibre.  I’ve thought about pairing with a tube pre-amp (largely due to recommendations on this thread from paradoxper and normie) but I’m  in no rush.  If I do get a tube pre-amp I would want it to double up as a stand-alone amp (can’t wait for more reviews of the Feliks Envy..).  But again no rush and not sure if it will be worth it in my system with my headphones (I don’t currently have brighter headphones like the SR1A or TC - although one of those will be my next move I think).


Just to add a bit, I had the Bakoon 13R amp before CFA3, and CFA3 sounds a lot fuller with more body, more analog than 13R. The impact and dynamics are also better. Both are paired with the same DAC and tube pre-amp. Many considered 13R as a smooth sounding amp, but CFA3 does it better I guess. Still very full, smooth and clean sounding with added dynamics.


----------



## chesebert

I can’t wait for a commercial version - patiently waiting.


----------



## all2ofme

Fantastic thread. Thanks to all who’ve contributed (and kept me occupied all afternoon while I thinned out the headphone flock) ❤️


----------



## PierPP

MN8372 said:


> For what it is worth, I use a CFA3 with a Holo Audio May and it is a fantastic paring



+1 to that  I'm super happy too, for what is worth


----------



## IMHERETOSTAY

Anybody used their CFA3 with a Denafrips DAC (particularly the Terminator II)?


----------



## PierPP

IMHERETOSTAY said:


> Anybody used their CFA3 with a Denafrips DAC (particularly the Terminator II)?



Never heard a T2/T2+ but I've used my CFA3 with the Venus II.
I prefer way more my actual Holo May: I feel it less "thin" and it can give the CFA3 the magic it deserves. Imho there's no need to pump-it/color-it with a preamp in this config.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO (Jun 29, 2022)

My CFA3 arrived last week! Finally snapped some photos of it. Hard to capture the "3" on the amp and PSU. Got it in a nice rainbow gradient. 🌈

This amp sounds amazing! Fully maxed out build in a compact chassis, ELNA Silmic II caps and a TKD 4CP-2511 potentiometer, which feels GREAT. The knob is hefty and smooth.



rsbrsvp said:


> Has anyone tried a tube dac or a more saturated sounding dac like a Terminator plus with the CFA-3?


Yes! My DAC is a fully restored and upgraded Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 MKII, which is a UltraAnalog D20400A and tube hybrid. It pairs remarkably well with the CFA3. The SFD2's signature isn't necessarily saturated, but rather comes off as being fast, fluid, precise and well-rounded with great tonality. Features a massive stage size (width, depth and height) with superb layering, image separation and transients. The CFA3 pushes the SFD2's capabilities even further with amazing control and resolution.

Massive thanks to @Dukei for making this happen! This amp is everything I could have hoped for.


----------



## paradoxper

Very nice.

Have a blast.


----------



## normie610

FOUNDERZERO said:


> My CFA3 arrived last week! Finally snapped some photos of it. Hard to capture the "3" on the amp and PSU. Got it in a nice rainbow gradient. 🌈
> 
> This amp sounds amazing! Fully maxed out build in a compact chassis, ELNA Silmic II caps and a TKD 4CP-2511 potentiometer, which feels GREAT. The knob is hefty and smooth.
> 
> ...


Whoaa amazing look! Congrats and welcome to the club!


----------



## IMHERETOSTAY (Jul 4, 2022)

Anybody was able to compare the CFA3 to a Benchmark AHB2 (or 2 of them)?


----------



## linshu1992

IMHERETOSTAY said:


> Anybody was able to compare the CFA3 to a Benchmark ABH2 (or 2 of them)?


I have a cfa3 coming. I will be able to do a quick comparison


----------



## GoldenOne (Jul 4, 2022)

A friend of mine kindly loaned me his CFA3 for a while (which ended up being a longer while than anticipated, man it's hard to find a box to fit this thing!)
It's a very impressive amplifier and I can certainly see why it's so widely adored.

For those curious I've posted a full set of measurements here: https://goldensound.audio/2022/07/04/kevin-gilmore-cfa3-headphone-amp-measurements/

At actual listening levels it does rather splendidly in most areas. At 4V/Unity gain output harmonic distortion is a lot higher, but then no one is going to be listening at those levels and it’s a good example of why testing in realistic circumstances is important.

Absolutely lovely amp (though not particularly compact! Make sure you’ve got plenty of desk space!)


----------



## genefruit

GoldenOne said:


> A friend of mine kindly loaned me his CFA3 for a while (which ended up being a longer while than anticipated, man it's hard to find a box to fit this thing!)
> It's a very impressive amplifier and I can certainly see why it's so widely adored.
> 
> For those curious I've posted a full set of measurements here: https://goldensound.audio/2022/07/04/kevin-gilmore-cfa3-headphone-amp-measurements/
> ...


Interesting read and thanks for taking the time.  Did you experience any differences in measurement between "low" and "high" gain settings?


----------



## GoldenOne (Jul 4, 2022)

genefruit said:


> Interesting read and thanks for taking the time.  Did you experience any differences in measurement between "low" and "high" gain settings?


I didn't do a full set with it in high gain but it seemed from the few checks I did that you basically just get a bit higher noise but otherwise same harmonic structure.
Unfortunately it's boxed up and about to head off across the pond else I'd do one in high gain as well.
Though given as the 'low gain' isn't exactly 'low gain' anyway at 16dB, and high gain is 25dB, it's pretty unlikely you'd ever need to use the high gain tbh

(Also worth noting as it's a common misconception, gain and power are different, and amps do not have more power available in high gain. Gain is a measure of how much the incoming voltage is multiplied. The maximum current an amp can supply is not altered and is the same regardless of gain)


----------



## linshu1992

GoldenOne said:


> I didn't do a full set with it in high gain but it seemed from the few checks I did that you basically just get a bit higher noise but otherwise same harmonic structure.
> Unfortunately it's boxed up and about to head off across the pond else I'd do one in high gain as well.
> Though given as the 'low gain' isn't exactly 'low gain' anyway at 16dB, and high gain is 25dB, it's pretty unlikely you'd ever need to use the high gain tbh
> 
> (Also worth noting as it's a common misconception, gain and power are different, and amps do not have more power available in high gain. Gain is a measure of how much the incoming voltage is multiplied. The maximum current an amp can supply is not altered and is the same regardless of gain)



I’m curious about your opinion of CFA3 vs AHB2 for susvara!


----------



## GoldenOne

linshu1992 said:


> I’m curious about your opinion of CFA3 vs AHB2 for susvara!


For Susvara I definitely preferred AHB2.
For other headphones it was a matter of flavour/mood


----------



## omega1990 (Jul 5, 2022)

Finally obtained an abyss 1266 phi tc and just had my first listening session with them on my cfa3. I have read many posts on impressions and reviews of this one and kept an open mind about what to expect.

Honestly, I thought my first time would be a rough one, but after adjusting things to the default position that I saw on the instructional abyss YouTube video and finally giving it a listen, I'm pretty impressed. Yes there is a bit of honk and glare, but the midrange is no where near as bad as I've read. I'm having fun time with them so far. What I like is how the bass can be big and impactful but not truly intrusive on the mids or treble. While I have not really been a fan of planars as I am more of a dynamic and estat listener, the lcd 4 and now the abyss 1266 seem to be planars that work for me.

This is also the first time I felt the need to use the cfa3 on high gain and the 1266 responds very well to the watts this amp puts out. I was also expecting this headphone to be more unforgiving from what I've read about its detail and resolution, but even on poorly recorded tracks I'm still having a good time. It's still too early but I'm not finding much of anything to complain about its sound. The fit is snug and the weight doesn't bother me at all.


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## paradoxper

omega1990 said:


> Finally obtained an abyss 1266 phi tc and just had my first listening session with them on my cfa3. I have read many posts on impressions and reviews of this one and kept an open mind about what to expect.
> 
> Honestly, I thought my first time would be a rough one, but after adjusting things to the default position that I saw on the instructional abyss YouTube video and finally giving it a listen, I'm pretty impressed. Yes there is a bit of honk and glare, but the midrange is no where near as bad as I've read. I'm having fun time with them so far. What I like is how the bass can be big and impactful but not truly intrusive on the mids or treble. While I have not really been a fan of planars as I am more of a dynamic and estat listener, the lcd 4 and now the abyss 1266 seem to be planars that work for me.
> 
> This is also the first time I felt the need to use the cfa3 on high gain and the 1266 responds very well to the watts this amp puts out. I was also expecting this headphone to be more unforgiving from what I've read about its detail and resolution, but even on poorly recorded tracks I'm still having a good time. It's still too early but I'm not finding much of anything to complain about its sound. The fit is snug and the weight doesn't bother me at all.


Really great to hear.


----------



## mrjayviper

What's the power consumption of this one? Thanks


----------



## mrjayviper

Where can I buy an already
built version? Thanks


----------



## Four Kneez

mrjayviper said:


> Where can I buy an already
> built version? Thanks


I think at this point you either need to wait for Kerry’s (or another manufacturer’s) to be released or to get one off of classifieds.


----------



## mrjayviper

where can I find the gerber files for cfa3? Thanks


----------



## linshu1992

mrjayviper said:


> Where can I buy an already
> built version? Thanks


It's worth making a WTB (want to buy) post in classified. There has been quite a few on sale in last few months. It's quite possible someone is willing to sell at the right price.


----------



## paradoxper

mrjayviper said:


> where can I find the gerber files for cfa3? Thanks


At the other place and on the host server.


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## mrjayviper (Jul 13, 2022)

decided to ask here as the other site is eerily quiet...

----


What's the latest gerber file with both input and output? (filename should be sufficient


what's the minimum voltage I can use with the amp?


average power consumption? (or shouldn't even think about it considering it requires massive heatsink? 😁

)


What's the difference between cfa3production.pdf vs cfa3productionss.pdf


Kevin Gilmore posted a split board Gerber files. He only posted the files for the output section. I am not sure which one is the input section. I looked at the shared folder and I don't know which input section to use.


     Thank you.


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## paradoxper

Seems plenty active with on-going builds. Fun.


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## mrjayviper

paradoxper said:


> Seems plenty active with on-going builds. Fun.


where?


----------



## jlbrach

well i may finally be about to receive my cfa3...I dont want to jinx myself here lol...I have been waiting literally for about 9 months..I had arranged to have a smaller box version built by dukeii 9 months ago because I couldnt fit the big box on my shelf...well to make a very long story short for whatever reason it appeared it couldnt be done up to standards so it was shelved but then to my good luck I was told the problem had been solved and the amp was gonna work...on and off for a long time...longer than I have ever waited for any audio product...I persevered because of all the raves here..anyway just when it looked ready to finally come together fedex put a hold on my shipment and has put me through hoops for several days now but finally they say they released it from indianapolis so it should be soon..I must thank my friend paradoxper for not only being the inspiration but also for walking me through the process and then in the last few days calming my frustration...I will report when I get a chance to give it a workout...the box is a fraction of the normal large box so hopefully this will be a big addition to my TC,susvara and sr1a..we shall see


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> well i may finally be about to receive my cfa3...I dont want to jinx myself here lol...I have been waiting literally for about 9 months..I had arranged to have a smaller box version built by dukeii 9 months ago because I couldnt fit the big box on my shelf...well to make a very long story short for whatever reason it appeared it couldnt be done up to standards so it was shelved but then to my good luck I was told the problem had been solved and the amp was gonna work...on and off for a long time...longer than I have ever waited for any audio product...I persevered because of all the raves here..anyway just when it looked ready to finally come together fedex put a hold on my shipment and has put me through hoops for several days now but finally they say they released it from indianapolis so it should be soon..I must thank my friend paradoxper for not only being the inspiration but also for walking me through the process and then in the last few days calming my frustration...I will report when I get a chance to give it a workout...the box is a fraction of the normal large box so hopefully this will be a big addition to my TC,susvara and sr1a..we shall see


It's Time!


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## sahmen (Jul 19, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> well i may finally be about to receive my cfa3...I dont want to jinx myself here lol...I have been waiting literally for about 9 months..I had arranged to have a smaller box version built by dukeii 9 months ago because I couldnt fit the big box on my shelf...well to make a very long story short for whatever reason it appeared it couldnt be done up to standards so it was shelved but then to my good luck I was told the problem had been solved and the amp was gonna work...on and off for a long time...longer than I have ever waited for any audio product...I persevered because of all the raves here..anyway just when it looked ready to finally come together fedex put a hold on my shipment and has put me through hoops for several days now but finally they say they released it from indianapolis so it should be soon..I must thank my friend paradoxper for not only being the inspiration but also for walking me through the process and then in the last few days calming my frustration...I will report when I get a chance to give it a workout...the box is a fraction of the normal large box so hopefully this will be a big addition to my TC,susvara and sr1a..we shall see


Great news!  I'd be particularly keen on reading your comparative impressions of CFA-3 pairings as they stack up against other pairings of Amps and HPs. You do own, or have owned, some HPs as well as amps that have been of relative high interest on some of the forums I like to frequent :

HPs: 1266 TC, the Susvara, the LCD-4/5, the Raal Sr1a
Amps: The Bakoon 13r, the Formula S w/Powerman, hsa-1b. etc.

not to mention : the Dave, and other high performance DACs.

I hope you do understand why I can't wait to hear you weigh-in on discussions of the CFA-3 and how well it stacks up against other amps in pairings with the "usual suspect" array of high-end HPs.

p.s. And oh yeah! @paradoxper is _da man_!  I fully concur!


----------



## ZzZzZzZ

Where can I find information to how build a CFA3 along with gerber files ?


----------



## jlbrach

after my 9 month wait I finally received my small box version ...dukeii worked till he got it right...despite fed ex and import issues it got to me today....initial impressions are very positive...I have listened through my susvara for several hours tonight and initial impressions are very positive...despite my surprise at how high on the volume pot I have to go when in high gain the virtues are obvious and many...imagining is probably the standout to me...I can literally pick out individual instruments in their place in the recording..detail is great and the bass is tight and prominent...it was a long long wait but thus far I am pleased..


----------



## all2ofme

How small is it? I’m getting one done soon and wonder how many different box sizes he does them in.


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## jlbrach (Jul 20, 2022)

..not sure if this will show up properly


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

jlbrach said:


> ..not sure if this will show up properly



Nice. What are the measurements for your unit? I'm guessing the PSU is built in? Got any internal shots? Super curious to see how this was pulled off.


----------



## jlbrach




----------



## all2ofme

So cute! Love it 👍


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## sahmen (Jul 20, 2022)

jlbrach said:


>


Will the size affect performance in any way? I'm assuming the power supply is also inside this same box. If so, it's like a tour-de-force of repackaging. I can't wait to hear how well it sings.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO (Jul 20, 2022)

sahmen said:


> Will the size affect performance in any way? I'm assuming the power supply is also inside this same box. If so, it's like a tour-de-force of repackaging. I can't wait to hear how well it sings.


Assuming the PSU is located in the chassis in addition to amplifier components, I imagine bias would need to be dialed back quite a bit to avoid overheating in such a tight space. (This would have the effect of reduced total power output.) From the statement that high gain is used with the volume pot cranked, I'm guessing this is the case. Since my amplifier is also in a SFF chassis, bias is adjusted similarly, although perhaps not to the same degree as jlbrach's build since my PSU is discrete. (Total power output for my build is maybe 2-3 watts below a large chassis build, so not significant.) I'm able to use low gain with the pot in the 0900 position and the HE6se V2 hits like a speeding tank! Setting the pot beyond that would be too loud for me. I imagine I'll have a similar experience with the Susvara when I get my set in.


----------



## paradoxper

@Dukei what parameters were dialed back on the build for jlbrach?


----------



## Dukei

FOUNDERZERO said:


> Nice. What are the measurements for your unit? I'm guessing the PSU is built in? Got any internal shots? Super curious to see how this was pulled off.


Same size as yours but a little longer on the depth which is 31cm.






paradoxper said:


> @Dukei what parameters were dialed back on the build for jlbrach?


Bias dialed back somewhat to keep the heat reasonable.


----------



## jlbrach

sahmen said:


> Will the size affect performance in any way? I'm assuming the power supply is also inside this same box. If so, it's like a tour-de-force of repackaging. I can't wait to hear how well it sings.


I have no frame of reference as I havent heard the larger box version but thus far I am pleased


----------



## sahmen

jlbrach said:


> I have no frame of reference as I havent heard the larger box version but thus far I am pleased


Nice! Could you elaborate a bit on how it is faring so far with your TOTL cans, notably the Susvara and the TC, as compared with the other amps in your stable? Many thanks in advance.


----------



## mrjayviper (Jul 21, 2022)

For something that's in the DIY section, all I see are people discussing amp they -bought- 😁


----------



## ZzZzZzZ

Actually CFA3 now after loss of all greber files and detailed information on building one due to retirement of Kevin Gilmore and hence no more web hosting provided by University website, is more of commissioned builder's amp rather then a diy amp and soon it would be commercial build amp. 
It also seems like folks those who are starting commercial venture out of CFA3 don't want any other outsider to know the build and have the gerber files and other information for this amp due to obvious financial interests.


----------



## paradoxper

To drown out this clueless noise, more impressions @jlbrach


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## kevin gilmore (Jul 21, 2022)

ZzZzZzZ said:


> Actually CFA3 now after loss of all greber files and detailed information on building one due to retirement of Kevin Gilmore and hence no more web hosting provided by University website, is more of commissioned builder's amp rather then a diy amp and soon it would be commercial build amp.
> It also seems like folks those who are starting commercial venture out of CFA3 don't want any other outsider to know the build and have the gerber files and other information for this amp due to obvious financial interests.




yes i retired. the rest is pure nonsense.  all files still available to everyone. split files that fit in a smaller chassis were released in february of this year.

new 100 watt (into 8 ohms) pure class A zero feedback amp is being worked on now. will be posted in the usual place.
parts availability is a real problem.


----------



## ZzZzZzZ

kevin gilmore said:


> yes i retired. the rest is pure nonsense.  all files still available to everyone. split files that fit in a smaller chassis were released in february of this year.
> 
> new 100 watt (into 8 ohms) pure class A zero feedback amp is being worked on now. will be posted in the usual place.
> parts availability is a real problem.


Thanks for your reply sir. Where can we find those files. Kindly guide as I am very interested in building a CFA3 for myself.


----------



## jlbrach

sahmen said:


> Nice! Could you elaborate a bit on how it is faring so far with your TOTL cans, notably the Susvara and the TC, as compared with the other amps in your stable? Many thanks in advance.


I love my 2 other amps the 13r with the susvara and the formula s /powerman with the abyss tc...that said in my brief time with the cfa3 I notice the difference in power...the bass is tighter and deeper...the imaging which is one of my biggest concerns is incredible each instrument in its own place coming out of a black background...interestingly I think both HP's see improvement but thus far I see the biggest improvement with the susvara...again, nothing detracts from how much I enjoy the amps I had they are outstanding but the new amp is different in a good way and it is not at all cold as some have said,at least to me....I will be giving it more listening and I assume that it will burn in and possibly sound even better...will update if it does..thanks all


----------



## mrjayviper

ZzZzZzZ said:


> Thanks for your reply sir. Where can we find those files. Kindly guide as I am very interested in building a CFA3 for myself.


there's a stax thread (page 5) in the DIY section of head-case.org. Kevin replied with a link 2 Google drive share folders.


----------



## vonBaron

Did anyone have chance to compare CFA3 to Enleum 23r?


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

vonBaron said:


> Did anyone have chance to compare CFA3 to Enleum 23r?


@rsbrsvp has done so, albeit with brief impressions.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I want to ask advice from experienced members here.

My CFA-3 has a remote.  This feature is important to me.  However, there are two issues with it.  1.  the remote does not catch on to the volume knob unless I point at certain direct angles.  It is quite annoying.  I checked my batteries and they are strong.   Could also be I am at a distance of 4 meters away which may just be to far..  But bottom line- it is not working nearly as well as I would want.  Second problem is there is no display to read where the volume is holding.  This is something that for some psychological reason I need...


My idea is to get a Benchmark LA4 line amp which has a 256 step volume plus remote plus display to feed the CFA-3.  I figure I could put the CFA-3 volume on Max and just use the Benchmark as my remote volume control.  My question is- assuming I use very good IC's will the Benchmark sound as good as the volume control on the CFA-3 or will I either loose something or get coloration of some sort?  On the one hand- the Benchmark is crazy highly acclaimed.  On the other hand, it is another piece of equipment between  my dac and CFA-3 and from what I understand- the more components- usually the worse it is....

For those who feel qualified- please advise me....


----------



## rsbrsvp

By the way- I did try a passive preamp (with remote and display) between my dac and cfa-3 and did not like it.  Loss of bass.... relative to the volume control on the CFA-3...


----------



## ZzZzZzZ

Dds


rsbrsvp said:


> I want to ask advice from experienced members here.
> 
> My CFA-3 has a remote.  This feature is important to me.  However, there are two issues with it.  1.  the remote does not catch on to the volume knob unless I point at certain direct angles.  It is quite annoying.  I checked my batteries and they are strong.   Could also be I am at a distance of 4 meters away which may just be to far..  But bottom line- it is not working nearly as well as I would want.  Second problem is there is no display to read where the volume is holding.  This is something that for some psychological reason I need...
> 
> ...


Sonnet Morpheus DAC has excellent volume control with display and remote control. You could try using it with your CFA3.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jul 22, 2022)

I have tried several dacs with volume control.  My current position is I do not like digital volume control. I need analogue..  Every digital volume control I use makes things brighter and leaner....  IMHO...


----------



## vonBaron

Can someone send CFA3 to ASR for review? Lol


----------



## ZzZzZzZ

rsbrsvp said:


> I have tried several dacs with volume control.  My current position is I do not like digital volume control. I need analogue..  Every digital volume control I use makes things brighter an leaner....  IMHO...


Morpheus does the volume control in a very different approach. The "lossless volume control" on Sonnet Morpheus works "by changing the output voltage of the DAC by changing its reference voltage."


----------



## rsbrsvp

ZzZzZzZ said:


> Morpheus does the volume control in a very different approach. The "lossless volume control" on Sonnet Morpheus works "by changing the output voltage of the DAC by changing its reference voltage."




I hear.  But- I just bought a dac- and I really like it.  So I don't think that is an option.  I do appreciate the idea......


----------



## PierPP

vonBaron said:


> Can someone send CFA3 to ASR for review? Lol



Cameron already did some measurements:
https://goldensound.audio/2022/07/04/kevin-gilmore-cfa3-headphone-amp-measurements/


----------



## jlbrach

vonBaron said:


> Can someone send CFA3 to ASR for review? Lol


it will be reviewed as not as good as the topping a90 lol


----------



## Beefy

PierPP said:


> Cameron already did some measurements:
> https://goldensound.audio/2022/07/04/kevin-gilmore-cfa3-headphone-amp-measurements/


Does anyone know whether the amp measured here was zero-feedback or super-symmetry? Would be really neat to compare measurements of both modes.


----------



## Dukei

Beefy said:


> Does anyone know whether the amp measured here was zero-feedback or super-symmetry? Would be really neat to compare measurements of both modes.


Zero feedback on that one.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

jlbrach said:


> it will be reviewed as not as good as the topping a90 lol


The truth. 😂


----------



## vonBaron

CFA3 inside looks similar to Wells Headtrip.


----------



## genefruit

vonBaron said:


> CFA3 inside looks similar to Wells Headtrip.


gauntlet thrown


----------



## normie610

jlbrach said:


> I love my 2 other amps the 13r with the susvara and the formula s /powerman with the abyss tc...that said in my brief time with the cfa3 I notice the difference in power...the bass is tighter and deeper...the imaging which is one of my biggest concerns is incredible each instrument in its own place coming out of a black background...interestingly I think both HP's see improvement but thus far I see the biggest improvement with the susvara...again, nothing detracts from how much I enjoy the amps I had they are outstanding but the new amp is different in a good way and it is not at all cold as some have said,at least to me....I will be giving it more listening and I assume that it will burn in and possibly sound even better...will update if it does..thanks all


Welcome to the club. Glad that you’re happy with it 👍🏼


----------



## sahmen (Jul 25, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> I love my 2 other amps the 13r with the susvara and the formula s /powerman with the abyss tc...that said in my brief time with the cfa3 I notice the difference in power...the bass is tighter and deeper...the imaging which is one of my biggest concerns is incredible each instrument in its own place coming out of a black background...interestingly I think both HP's see improvement but thus far I see the biggest improvement with the susvara...again, nothing detracts from how much I enjoy the amps I had they are outstanding but the new amp is different in a good way and it is not at all cold as some have said,at least to me....I will be giving it more listening and I assume that it will burn in and possibly sound even better...will update if it does..thanks all





normie610 said:


> Welcome to the club. Glad that you’re happy with it 👍🏼


One of the questions which irks me about the CFA3, as much as I am sold on its solidity as an amp, is the preamp question. Simply put, why is it that at least 2 of the CFA3's fondest advocates in this forum, also seem to advocate or at lest favor using preamps with it--in this case, quite expensive 300b tube preamps that could easily exceed the price of the CFA3 itself.  There is obviously nothing wrong with using preamps perse with any amps. In this particular case, however, this frequent mention of required preamps inevitably leads me to the question of what perceived inadequacies (if one might rightly call them "inadequacies") of the CFA3's performance--flying solo-- are the preamps meant to "correct".

Does the CFA3 exhibit in flying solo, any particular inadequacies (such as too much brute power, or lack of some unspecified audio refinements, for example) that these preamps are meant to correct? I hope this question sounds reasonable enough to keep fans of the CFA3 from crying Blasphemy! I am a fan of the unit myself, and an aspiring owner of one, without having heard it for myself. I just feel compelled to ask because I do not habitually hear head-fiers speak of the (head-) amps I already own in a manner that suggests that an external preamp might be necessarily required for them to perform at their optimal best levels.  If there is something I am overlooking, I would be glad to be set straight.  Many thanks.


----------



## buzzlulu

Good questions


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> One of the questions which irks me about the CFA3, as much as I am sold on its solidity as an amp, is the preamp question. Simply put, why is it that at least 2 the CFA3's fondest advocates in this forum, also seem to advocate or at lest favor using preamps with it--in this case, quite expensive 300b tube preamps that could easily exceed the price of the CFA3 itself.  There is obviously nothing wrong with using preamps perse with any amps. In this particular case, however, this frequent mention of required preamps inevitably leads me to the question of what perceived inadequacies (if one might rightly call them "inadequacies") of the CFA3's performance--flying solo-- are the preamps meant to "correct".
> 
> Does the CFA3 exhibit in flying solo, any particular inadequacies (such too much brute power, or lack of some unspecified audio refinements, for example) that these preamps are meant to correct? I hope this question sounds reasonable enough to keep fans of the CFA3 from crying Blasphemy! I am a fan of the unit myself, and an aspiring owner of one, without having heard it for myself. I just feel compelled to ask because I do not habitually hear head-fiers speak of the (head-) amps I already own in a manner that suggests that an external preamp might be necessarily required for them to perform at their optimal best levels.  If there is something I am overlooking, I would be glad to be set straight.  Many thanks.


They're better performing to my ears. Bigger space, more detail and more meat.

Why the CFA3, it just happens to be the most exploitive.

Without the pre, the character is more incisive and more flat 

Tubes add the magic. The CFA3 hybrid did not have this magic, for what it's worth.


----------



## jlbrach

sahmen said:


> One of the questions which irks me about the CFA3, as much as I am sold on its solidity as an amp, is the preamp question. Simply put, why is it that at least 2 the CFA3's fondest advocates in this forum, also seem to advocate or at lest favor using preamps with it--in this case, quite expensive 300b tube preamps that could easily exceed the price of the CFA3 itself.  There is obviously nothing wrong with using preamps perse with any amps. In this particular case, however, this frequent mention of required preamps inevitably leads me to the question of what perceived inadequacies (if one might rightly call them "inadequacies") of the CFA3's performance--flying solo-- are the preamps meant to "correct".
> 
> Does the CFA3 exhibit in flying solo, any particular inadequacies (such too much brute power, or lack of some unspecified audio refinements, for example) that these preamps are meant to correct? I hope this question sounds reasonable enough to keep fans of the CFA3 from crying Blasphemy! I am a fan of the unit myself, and an aspiring owner of one, without having heard it for myself. I just feel compelled to ask because I do not habitually hear head-fiers speak of the (head-) amps I already own in a manner that suggests that an external preamp might be necessarily required for them to perform at their optimal best levels.  If there is something I am overlooking, I would be glad to be set straight.  Many thanks.


if you like a little more warmth a more tube like sound a pre amp might be enjoyed...I myself like it just fine as it is...when I had a ps audio DAC I used it without a  pre amp  and liked it but eventually bought a pre amp that was tube based and I liked it as well...personal preference.....in my case I like the cfa3 as is


----------



## normie610

sahmen said:


> One of the questions which irks me about the CFA3, as much as I am sold on its solidity as an amp, is the preamp question. Simply put, why is it that at least 2 the CFA3's fondest advocates in this forum, also seem to advocate or at lest favor using preamps with it--in this case, quite expensive 300b tube preamps that could easily exceed the price of the CFA3 itself.  There is obviously nothing wrong with using preamps perse with any amps. In this particular case, however, this frequent mention of required preamps inevitably leads me to the question of what perceived inadequacies (if one might rightly call them "inadequacies") of the CFA3's performance--flying solo-- are the preamps meant to "correct".
> 
> Does the CFA3 exhibit in flying solo, any particular inadequacies (such too much brute power, or lack of some unspecified audio refinements, for example) that these preamps are meant to correct? I hope this question sounds reasonable enough to keep fans of the CFA3 from crying Blasphemy! I am a fan of the unit myself, and an aspiring owner of one, without having heard it for myself. I just feel compelled to ask because I do not habitually hear head-fiers speak of the (head-) amps I already own in a manner that suggests that an external preamp might be necessarily required for them to perform at their optimal best levels.  If there is something I am overlooking, I would be glad to be set straight.  Many thanks.


In my case, I’ve already had the preamp way before I own CFA3. So there’s no reason why I shouldn’t use the preamp. It just happened that it has magical synergy with my CFA3.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> In my case, I’ve already had the preamp way before I own CFA3. So there’s no reason why I shouldn’t use the preamp. It just happened that it has magical synergy with my CFA3.


No, no. I 100% was skeptical a tube pre would impart enough character to be meaningful. I don't know why I thought it would be so different from speakers.

Oh, I was so wrong. 

I've never been happier. Ha.


----------



## sahmen

So how about the impact of Schiit Freya + with appropriately curated tubes? Does that also bring any noteworthy enhancement to the CFA3, or does the 300B tube pres make mincemeat of it?


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> So how about the impact of Schiit Freya + with appropriately curated tubes? Does that also bring any noteworthy enhancement to the CFA3, or does the 300B tube pres make mincemeat of it?


With appropriate tube complement for Freya, your introductory price is $2k which offers some tastings but with 300B or that variant 45,2A3, you will open space between the lines and saturate densities more fully. 

I highly rate the Elrog ER 300B which isn't cheap but can't be beat. The Audio Note 4300E is an excellent choice with more budgetary consideration.
I'd avoid the WE 300B which sounds like dog mush comparatively.

Go for 300B that sounds the opposite of 300B.


----------



## migo

Another newborn here... with some midnight glow during my first listening test. 






Front plate in the works, but can be used without the face too.


----------



## dstarr3

Supposing I wanted to build my own, about how much money would this cost me in parts?


----------



## migo

dstarr3 said:


> Supposing I wanted to build my own, about how much money would this cost me in parts?


I'm not the most competent one here, but it depends on your chosen setup and parts available.


----------



## elira

migo said:


> I'm not the most competent one here, but it depends on your chosen setup and parts available.


Are parts available and currently produced?


----------



## migo

elira said:


> Are parts available and currently produced?


All parts are produced, but availability for some is very limited, but it is doable. You need to decide what build are you aiming at, e.g. full dual mono, how will be PS build, what voltage it will use and so on... Maybe you should read right thread at other (HC) site to get knowledge.


----------



## dstarr3

I mean, I have zero concept of what all the parts cost. Are we talking $100 in parts or $1,000 in parts? I understand there's some customizability, but, like, a ballpark figure of what a basic build would cost in parts would be helpful. I know I've seen some already-built units sell for around $4,000, but I have no idea how much of that is labor and extra features/upgraded components/etc, versus just the average cost of building a basic one myself.


----------



## migo

dstarr3 said:


> I mean, I have zero concept of what all the parts cost. Are we talking $100 in parts or $1,000 in parts? I understand there's some customizability, but, like, a ballpark figure of what a basic build would cost in parts would be helpful. I know I've seen some already-built units sell for around $4,000, but I have no idea how much of that is labor and extra features/upgraded components/etc, versus just the average cost of building a basic one myself.


around $1000 is starting point with quality components/parts.


----------



## elira

Is it intentional that the information on how to build one of these is so hard to find?


----------



## migo

elira said:


> Is it intentional that the information on how to build one of these is so hard to find?


 I don't think, but it is not for every one, you need to have skills and knowledge to build such a amp. And man with such a knowledge knows where to look... No secrets here, Mr. Gilmore published all needed information and helped with troubleshooting.


----------



## mrjayviper

the info is definitely not in 1 place (like say beta22 from amb labs) but the information is in thread replies.


----------



## dstarr3

Welp, I'm going to be building a Bottlehead Crack in the coming months, and when I finish that up, I'm keen to start building one of these. So hopefully people don't mind an absolute deluge of questions once I get started, lol


----------



## K3cT

sahmen said:


> One of the questions which irks me about the CFA3, as much as I am sold on its solidity as an amp, is the preamp question. Simply put, why is it that at least 2 of the CFA3's fondest advocates in this forum, also seem to advocate or at lest favor using preamps with it--in this case, quite expensive 300b tube preamps that could easily exceed the price of the CFA3 itself.  There is obviously nothing wrong with using preamps perse with any amps. In this particular case, however, this frequent mention of required preamps inevitably leads me to the question of what perceived inadequacies (if one might rightly call them "inadequacies") of the CFA3's performance--flying solo-- are the preamps meant to "correct".
> 
> Does the CFA3 exhibit in flying solo, any particular inadequacies (such as too much brute power, or lack of some unspecified audio refinements, for example) that these preamps are meant to correct? I hope this question sounds reasonable enough to keep fans of the CFA3 from crying Blasphemy! I am a fan of the unit myself, and an aspiring owner of one, without having heard it for myself. I just feel compelled to ask because I do not habitually hear head-fiers speak of the (head-) amps I already own in a manner that suggests that an external preamp might be necessarily required for them to perform at their optimal best levels.  If there is something I am overlooking, I would be glad to be set straight.  Many thanks.



The way I see it most people use CFA-3 with the Susvara and AB1266. Both headphones especially the Abyss are not known for their gentle treble response... I don't think it's the amp's fault for being transparent. Actually this kinda reminds me of something that happened a couple years back... some people from a certain other forum complained non-stop about the GS-X MK2 being peaky with guess what, a freaking stock HD800 which don't need further explanation about their infamous 6kHz peak. I've been using the GS-X MK2 for a while: even in stock condition before @Dukei worked his magic and shoved a miniaturized dual mono Golden Reference power supply in the HeadAmp's chassis, the GS-X never felt peaky to me with the Focal Utopia. Aggressive and impactful yes but not peaky and glary.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

dstarr3 said:


> Welp, I'm going to be building a Bottlehead Crack in the coming months, and when I finish that up, I'm keen to start building one of these. So hopefully people don't mind an absolute deluge of questions once I get started, lol



Probably best to direct those questions towards headcase as you'll get the most help there.


----------



## jlbrach

K3cT said:


> The way I see it most people use CFA-3 with the Susvara and AB1266. Both headphones especially the Abyss are not known for their gentle treble response... I don't think it's the amp's fault for being transparent. Actually this kinda reminds me of something that happened a couple years back... some people from a certain other forum complained non-stop about the GS-X MK2 being peaky with guess what, a freaking stock HD800 which don't need further explanation about their infamous 6kHz peak. I've been using the GS-X MK2 for a while: even in stock condition before @Dukei worked his magic and shoved a miniaturized dual mono Golden Reference power supply in the HeadAmp's chassis, the GS-X never felt peaky to me with the Focal Utopia. Aggressive and impactful yes but not peaky and glary.


I am using mine with both the susvara and abyss TC and have found no need for a pre amp or tubes in front of it but I know many do


----------



## all2ofme

Dukei is building a CFA3 for me, and I'm *hoping* that I love the sound with my Susvara and Abyss TC sans preamp, but I'm ok with adding a lovely glowing pre if need be. I'll report back when it's arrived and is run in.

The two-box CFA3 will look nice next to my two-box T2. Well, it will one day — these things don't happen overnight 

Love this thread. So good at keeping my bank account lean and fast.


----------



## Beefy

dstarr3 said:


> Welp, I'm going to be building a Bottlehead Crack in the coming months, and when I finish that up, I'm keen to start building one of these. So hopefully people don't mind an absolute deluge of questions once I get started, lol



A CFA3 is going to be a BIG increase in difficulty coming up from the Crack. Selecting and sourcing parts, heatsinking, casework, doing the mains wiring and grounding yourself without instruction, and a far smaller community of builders for troubleshooting. Completely different league, with a very really chance of failure meaning your investment would be essentially unusable.

I'm not saying you can't/shouldn't do it. But ask yourself whether you are willing to spend all that time and money and potentially still not end up with a functional amp.


----------



## elira

Beefy said:


> A CFA3 is going to be a BIG increase in difficulty coming up from the Crack. Selecting and sourcing parts, heatsinking, casework, doing the mains wiring and grounding yourself without instruction, and a far smaller community of builders for troubleshooting. Completely different league, with a very really chance of failure meaning your investment would be essentially unusable.
> 
> I'm not saying you can't/shouldn't do it. But ask yourself whether you are willing to spend all that time and money and potentially still not end up with a functional amp.


Is there a more beginner friendly amp that you would recommend?


----------



## dstarr3

Beefy said:


> A CFA3 is going to be a BIG increase in difficulty coming up from the Crack. Selecting and sourcing parts, heatsinking, casework, doing the mains wiring and grounding yourself without instruction, and a far smaller community of builders for troubleshooting. Completely different league, with a very really chance of failure meaning your investment would be essentially unusable.
> 
> I'm not saying you can't/shouldn't do it. But ask yourself whether you are willing to spend all that time and money and potentially still not end up with a functional amp.


Well, I also have experience building mechanical keyboards, which involves ordering custom PCBs, choosing proper components and soldering them. Which, if I'm working with Gerber files that are already floating around out there, no problem. Heatsinking and casework, I'm a DIY'er/maker in general, I can handle that. Mains wiring/grounding would take some learning, and I'll need some guidance for sure, but I feel like it's something I can handle.


----------



## Beefy (Aug 3, 2022)

elira said:


> Is there a more beginner friendly amp that you would recommend?



Back in my day, you'd go through any number of Cmoy, Pimeta, Dynalo, CKKIII, M3, Millett Hybrids, etc. to work your way up to a Dynahi or B22. They were all great amps that were better and cheaper than the commercial equivalents. You could easily on-sell them as you made your way up the chain.

Any of those are going to be good experience to work up to the complexity of a CFA3. But, the value proposition of these older amps is really quite poor now. Entry-level DIY makes less and less monetary sense, meaning there is no obvious gateway drug. So I'm hesitant to suggest any specific model, but anything from AMB is still attractive given boards, parts and documentation are still available.



dstarr3 said:


> Well, I also have experience building mechanical keyboards, which involves ordering custom PCBs, choosing proper components and soldering them. Which, if I'm working with Gerber files that are already floating around out there, no problem. Heatsinking and casework, I'm a DIY'er/maker in general, I can handle that. Mains wiring/grounding would take some learning, and I'll need some guidance for sure, but I feel like it's something I can handle.



That's less concerning than just coming from a Crack, but I do still feel that a high voltage/current amp is a different skillset to small-signal applications like keyboards. Just also consider that someone like Dukei or Kerry probably put about $2000 worth of labor into their builds, and they are well-practiced, well-trained experts. It's a big job, guidance isn't always available, and the best sources of information aren't necessarily newbie friendly.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

dstarr3 said:


> Well, I also have experience building mechanical keyboards, which involves ordering custom PCBs, choosing proper components and soldering them. Which, if I'm working with Gerber files that are already floating around out there, no problem. Heatsinking and casework, I'm a DIY'er/maker in general, I can handle that. Mains wiring/grounding would take some learning, and I'll need some guidance for sure, but I feel like it's something I can handle.



I've built tons of keyboards and agree with Beefy in that there is a pretty huge difference in difficulty between building a keyboard and something like the CFA3. Not saying you couldn't pull of a CFA3 build though, I'm rooting for ya.


----------



## kevin gilmore

Well i do know someone that built a T2 as his first amp ever. And he was successful. And then he built another just to be sure.
and has built many amps since. He does however seem to have some extra help from a deity. If you have the ability to drill and tap a 
whole bunch of holes, then a cfa3 should be relatively easy. far less dangerous to build than a t2.


----------



## dstarr3

On the subject of parts, what volume knobs to people use? I'm going to make second version of my speaker-tap-to-4-pin-XLR adapter, and I'd like to include a volume knob so I can just put the adapter box on my desk and then hide the AVR itself underneath somewhere.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I wanted to update everyone on my CFA-3 journey.

I bought a dac from China called HIBIKI SDS signature DAC.   The research I did seemed to indicate stunning detail retrieval and fantastic saturation.  

I was looking for this kind of saturation to match the CFA-3.   After around three weeks with the dac, I am extraordinarily pleased.  IMHO it matches the CFA-3 perfectly and beautifies the sound in the most natural way while maintaining stunning speed, slam, and dynamics.....  Tube saturation without veil, loss of speed or rounding.....

I'm extraordinarily pleased.....


----------



## K3cT

Congrats @rsbrsvp. I was looking at DAC too but didn't dare to blind buy because there are so few impressions around.


----------



## bfin3

rsbrsvp said:


> I wanted to update everyone on my CFA-3 journey.
> 
> I bought a dac from China called HIBIKI SDS signature DAC.   The research I did seemed to indicate stunning detail retrieval and fantastic saturation.
> 
> ...


What did you have before?


----------



## CopperFox (Aug 12, 2022)

Would the CFA3 be appropriate for low impedance planars, for example 18 or 16 ohm impedance and 90dB to 100dB / 1mW sensitivity?


----------



## RudeWolf

CopperFox said:


> Would the CFA3 be appropriate for low impedance planars, for example 18 or 16 ohm impedance and 90dB to 100dB / 1mW sensitivity?


I don't see why not. The amp can be used for driving speakers, headphone sensitivity is much higher.


----------



## CopperFox

RudeWolf said:


> I don't see why not. The amp can be used for driving speakers, headphone sensitivity is much higher.



There was one comment earlier in the thread (search is broken ATM) saying it would "probably" be noisy with Focal Utopias. However it was more of a speculative comment and not first hand experience, also in the measurements it does not seem very noisy. 

Most people seem to have used the amp with hard to drive phones so I'm wondering if someone has experience from low impedance planars.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I use my ES-R10 for my CFA-3.   But I have a ultra-low gain option installed on my CFA-3.  I do think my oor sounds better with the ES-R10; just a better natural partner even with the low gain setting on the CFA-3.


----------



## all2ofme

Have my own wee beauty on the way thanks to @Dukei.

I’ll echo what others have said here: a fantastic person to work with, and he was accommodating of not just my requests, but my horrendous Swedish. So much fun. Now hurry up, FedEx, I want to plug this in!


----------



## Hiker816

all2ofme said:


> Have my own wee beauty on the way thanks to @Dukei.
> 
> I’ll echo what others have said here: a fantastic person to work with, and he was accommodating of not just my requests, but my horrendous Swedish. So much fun. Now hurry up, FedEx, I want to plug this in!


"Eleven".  That could not be more brilliant.  🤣


----------



## all2ofme

Just another little post to say that I'm so, so happy with my @Dukei CFA3.

It's an incredible amplifier, and works so well with the dCS as a front-end.

(I've just listed my Enleum, which — while very, very good — I no longer need. Thanks for the encouragement, all! And a special nod to @paradoxper for the final push.)


----------



## normie610

all2ofme said:


> Just another little post to say that I'm so, so happy with my @Dukei CFA3.
> 
> It's an incredible amplifier, and works so well with the dCS as a front-end.
> 
> (I've just listed my Enleum, which — while very, very good — I no longer need. Thanks for the encouragement, all! And a special nod to @paradoxper for the final push.)


Welcome to the club! It’s nice to see more and more people are able to enjoy & experience this incredible amp. I also hope that Eksonic‘s CFA3 will be in production soon.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Welcome to the club! It’s nice to see more and more people are able to enjoy & experience this incredible amp. I also hope that Eksonic‘s CFA3 will be in production soon.


Nods. Thanks to Kevin Gilmore.


----------



## dude120 (Sep 29, 2022)

Just received a CFA3, have a few questions.

Based on what I'm seeing in pictures here theres no issue with stacking the PSU on top of it, right?

Any reccomendation for Tube pre's for this?

(I have a freya, but I'm sure there are far better units).

And this is likely a dumb question, but is there any downside to using RCA vs XLR to connect my other components to this amp?


----------



## Hiker816

I can't speak to how it sounds yet as it is still being made, but I have this pre on order:  http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com/2020/02/dht-or-6sn7-cabernet-preampor-both.html

@paradoxper  has a similar Supratek pre with his CFA3 and seems to like it.


----------



## lsantista

has anyone powered akg's k1000 with the CFA3, how's the pairing?


----------



## MN8372

Hiker816 said:


> I can't speak to how it sounds yet as it is still being made, but I have this pre on order:  http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com/2020/02/dht-or-6sn7-cabernet-preampor-both.html
> 
> @paradoxper  has a similar Supratek pre with his CFA3 and seems to like it.


Very interesting - so you can opt between 6SN7 or 300B/2A3/45.  Didn’t know that was a thing.  I’ve been toying between the Envy and the the Supratek DHT but this is really interesting.   I’ve got a Pope 6SN7 in my Studio Six and it’s fantastic.  Imagine how much money you could spend tube rolling!


----------



## paradoxper

Hiker816 said:


> I can't speak to how it sounds yet as it is still being made, but I have this pre on order:  http://supratekaudio.blogspot.com/2020/02/dht-or-6sn7-cabernet-preampor-both.html
> 
> @paradoxper  has a similar Supratek pre with his CFA3 and seems to like it.


The only two I recommend are Cabernet or Neo Classic. You could consider a tube DAC although with much more limited selection.

With Freya, pair the MELZ 1578 with a VT-231 or RCA grey glass for something pretty stellar.

And if you opt up, Elrogs are a must for the 300B. The EML Globe 45 mesh Anniversary is also very special.


----------



## Hiker816

MN8372 said:


> Very interesting - so you can opt between 6SN7 or 300B/2A3/45.  Didn’t know that was a thing.  I’ve been toying between the Envy and the the Supratek DHT but this is really interesting.   I’ve got a Pope 6SN7 in my Studio Six and it’s fantastic.  Imagine how much money you could spend tube rolling!


Yep, I'm really excited about it.  Except for being bled dry tube rolling. Also, both circuits are powered simultaneously and you need to keep tubes in both at all times, including the one you're not listening to, so some burner tubes may be in order.  A cool thing, though, is that Mick, the builder, is installing a headphone out on the DHT circuit for me, so I can use it as an integrated 300B amp to direct drive 300ohm headphones.


----------



## MN8372

Hiker816 said:


> Yep, I'm really excited about it.  Except for being bled dry tube rolling. Also, both circuits are powered simultaneously and you need to keep tubes in both at all times, including the one you're not listening to, so some burner tubes may be in order.  A cool thing, though, is that Mick, the builder, is installing a headphone out on the DHT circuit for me, so I can use it as an integrated 300B amp to direct drive 300ohm headphones.


Now that’s even more interesting…. Very interested in how this turns out for you.


----------



## normie610

Hiker816 said:


> Yep, I'm really excited about it.  Except for being bled dry tube rolling. Also, both circuits are powered simultaneously and you need to keep tubes in both at all times, including the one you're not listening to, so some burner tubes may be in order.  A cool thing, though, is that Mick, the builder, is installing a headphone out on the DHT circuit for me, so I can use it as an integrated 300B amp to direct drive 300ohm headphones.


Aha! Just like the Manley. Do let us know how it goes.


----------



## all2ofme

dude120 said:


> Just received a CFA3, have a few questions.
> 
> Based on what I'm seeing in pictures here theres no issue with stacking the PSU on top of it, right?
> 
> ...



If you’re going to stack (I am for now, but will separate them eventually) I would put the amp on the top, not the PSU. My PSU runs cool, but the amp puts out a lovely glow — give it some space on top.


----------



## joseph69

all2ofme said:


> If you’re going to stack I would put the amp on the top.


Definitely


----------



## dude120 (Oct 1, 2022)

joseph69 said:


> Definitely


That will unfortunately prove to be difficult...power supply aint the same size as the amp




In any case, this amp is fantastic, and drives both the susvara and 1266 pretty effortlessly.
Heddphone is worth mentioning too, best I've heard it sound thus far


----------



## Drakkard

lsantista said:


> has anyone powered akg's k1000 with the CFA3, how's the pairing?


I did, I think it works out great. I used stereo amp speaker outputs before CFA3


----------



## lsantista

Thank you. I will try it in a couple weeks


----------



## joseph69

dude120 said:


> That will unfortunately prove to be difficult...power supply aint the same size as the amp
> 
> 
> In any case, this amp is fantastic, and drives both the susvara and 1266 pretty effortlessly.
> Heddphone is worth mentioning too, best I've heard it sound thus far


It's not difficult. There's plenty of room on the sides of the amp to place 4 nice cylindrical supports under the amp and slide the PS right underneath. Here & here are just a couple of examples.


----------



## Hiker816

joseph69 said:


> It's not difficult. There's plenty of room on the sides of the amp to place 4 nice cylindrical supports under the amp and slide the PS right underneath. Here & here are just a couple of examples.


Yep.  Or you can get a monitor riser and use it as a small shelf between the PSU and amp.


----------



## joseph69

Hiker816 said:


> Yep.  Or you can get a monitor riser and use it as a small shelf between the PSU and amp.


This is an even easier and more simple solution.
Here is a nice example for a very, very reasonable price provided the feet under the amp are less than the the width and depth of the stand base and will rest fully on the base. I'd assume the PS isn't any higher than the max max height of 5.5".


----------



## Homrsimson

Calling all CFA owners: anyone tried theirs with raal’s new interface? I’m debating whether to dip back into the sr1a and would love to use my CFA made by dukei 

https://raalrequisite.com/product/ti-1b/


----------



## paradoxper

Homrsimson said:


> Calling all CFA owners: anyone tried theirs with raal’s new interface? I’m debating whether to dip back into the sr1a and would love to use my CFA made by dukei
> 
> https://raalrequisite.com/product/ti-1b/


@jlbrach might be using the new interface.


----------



## lsantista

having the same thought for a month now, but waiting till price on used market drops. Basically SR1a + speaker interface sells used for $2100-2600 but the few times the new interface listed already were for 2900-3000. I understand price for new units is the same or roughly, so on the used market they should drop as well next year. Please correct me if I say some nonsense


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> @jlbrach might be using the new interface.


I am indeed, I use both the HSA-1b and the CFA3 with the interface...very different presentations..the CFA3 extends a wider soundstage and if a bit softer sounding...that has to be from the interface box because the CFA3 sure isnt soft sounding....the HSA-1B is leaner sounding and a bit more detailed to my ears....the problem with the interface box is it really requires tons of volume to get to listening levels but otherwise it is a great option..the CA-1A is easier to drive than the SR-1A and doesnt have quite the same volume issue..hope that helps


----------



## Homrsimson

jlbrach said:


> I am indeed, I use both the HSA-1b and the CFA3 with the interface...very different presentations..the CFA3 extends a wider soundstage and if a bit softer sounding...that has to be from the interface box because the CFA3 sure isnt soft sounding....the HSA-1B is leaner sounding and a bit more detailed to my ears....the problem with the interface box is it really requires tons of volume to get to listening levels but otherwise it is a great option..the CA-1A is easier to drive than the SR-1A and doesnt have quite the same volume issue..hope that helps


Very helpful, thanks as always. Not sure if you’ve tried the jot R but do you think the CFA3 with the Ti-1b is a big upgrade, or a toss up? I’m not surprised the hsa-1b is probably the best, but given my system is built around the TC I’m trying to keep the cost down. The package I’m getting includes the jot R


----------



## jlbrach

Homrsimson said:


> Very helpful, thanks as always. Not sure if you’ve tried the jot R but do you think the CFA3 with the Ti-1b is a big upgrade, or a toss up? I’m not surprised the hsa-1b is probably the best, but given my system is built around the TC I’m trying to keep the cost down. The package I’m getting includes the jot R


I did not like the Jotr...still have it but never use it...perfectly good but a bit harsh sounding to my ears..the other options are far better


----------



## Homrsimson

jlbrach said:


> I did not like the Jotr...still have it but never use it...perfectly good but a bit harsh sounding to my ears..the other options are far better


Thanks, very helpful


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I did not like the Jotr...still have it but never use it...perfectly good but a bit harsh sounding to my ears..the other options are far better


@genefruit you have any thoughts?


----------



## genefruit

paradoxper said:


> @genefruit you have any thoughts?


I had the CA-1A with the TI-1a interface that I used with my CFA3.  If memory serves, the CA-1A needed approximately the same amount of gain (within 1db or so) as the Susvara for the same db.  Plenty of headroom in my use case and didn't leave me wondering if I was getting the best out of the CA-1A.  Ultimately they went to the market, as I wasn't reaching for them very often and hoarding headphones isn't my end game.


----------



## normie610

Homrsimson said:


> Calling all CFA owners: anyone tried theirs with raal’s new interface? I’m debating whether to dip back into the sr1a and would love to use my CFA made by dukei
> 
> https://raalrequisite.com/product/ti-1b/


Yes I have both TI-1b and the old interface box with my CFA3. Please note that if you use SR1a with TI-1b you will need to apply the open baffle compensation, either through using the barrels from Raal or software EQ. Having said that, I still prefer the sound using the old interface box (I have speaker taps on my CFA3). I think it’s because of the headphone cable. I”m using DHC C15 S-Mod with SR1a on the old interface box, whereas I can only use the standard cable that comes along with CA1a on the TI-1b (the DHC cable doesn’t sound good on TI-1b due to the parameter mismatch).

The difference is not that much though, but with the old interface box + DHC cable, I feel the sound is more controlled, and instrument separation is better. I have the Star-8 cable on order, and will try that with SR1a + TI-1b combo. I hope the Star-8 will bring the necessary improvement to SR1a + TI-1b combo so I can just tuck away the old interface box.


----------



## Hiker816

I have been using my CFA3 with a TI-1a interface box.  I also have an old resistor interface box and a HSA-1b.  I've been meaning to do a thorough comparison, but haven't yet gotten a chance.  I can say that the CFA3 + TI-1a sounds great.  However, a few times I have been convinced it sounds better than that HSA-1b, but then I switched over the HSA-1b and find myself surprised it sounds so good.  Also (and please forgive me if my terminology is off), the CFA3 seems to have more dynamic range, but in a way that isn't necessarily good.  I have one particular track I use to test dynamic range, and the quietest passages are detectable on the CFA3, but I have to crank up the volume past my normal comfortable listening level to make them out clearly.  The HSA-1b, on the other hand, seems to compress the loudest and quietest passages into a narrower range, the result being that I can hear the quietest passages more easily with the HSA-1b without cranking the volume.  

Slightly off topic, but, as @jlbrach and I discussed over a few posts, our CFA3s behave a bit differently, as I never get past 9 o'clock on mine when using the TI-1a interface (and that's on low gain).  I also prefer to keep the volume lower than most people, though.


----------



## jlbrach

genefruit said:


> I had the CA-1A with the TI-1a interface that I used with my CFA3.  If memory serves, the CA-1A needed approximately the same amount of gain (within 1db or so) as the Susvara for the same db.  Plenty of headroom in my use case and didn't leave me wondering if I was getting the best out of the CA-1A.  Ultimately they went to the market, as I wasn't reaching for them very often and hoarding headphones isn't my end game.


about right with the ca-1a but not the sr1a which requires far more gain


----------



## lsantista

What is the star-8 cable? Not so simple to find it using simple google search, I remember also
Looking for a star-87 cable once with no luck


----------



## Homrsimson

jlbrach said:


> about right with the ca-1a but not the sr1a which requires far more gain


Thanks all for the helpful insights. My biggest reservation is the gain issue, since I have the sr1a and don’t like the idea of having to drive my CFA so hard. Also the Ti-1b box is quite a expensive right now.


----------



## normie610

lsantista said:


> What is the star-8 cable? Not so simple to find it using simple google search, I remember also
> Looking for a star-87 cable once with no luck


Raal's new upgrade silver headphone cable for both CA1a and SR1a to be used in conjunction with TI-1b or Raal's direct drive amps.


----------



## Hiker816

Homrsimson said:


> Thanks all for the helpful insights. My biggest reservation is the gain issue, since I have the sr1a and don’t like the idea of having to drive my CFA so hard. Also the Ti-1b box is quite a expensive right now.


I think it depends on your CFA3.  I can drive my SR1a with the CFA3 via the Ti-1a box with about 10 times more headroom than I would ever need.  (Listening to it right now, at 8 o'clock).


----------



## Homrsimson

Hiker816 said:


> I think it depends on your CFA3.  I can drive my SR1a with the CFA3 via the Ti-1a box with about 10 times more headroom than I would ever need.  (Listening to it right now, at 8 o'clock).


I have a solid CFA unit but no speaker taps, purely an xlr based amp. So I believe I would need the ti-1b. Running the abyss TC on my unit I tend to run at 10 or 11


----------



## Hiker816

Homrsimson said:


> I have a solid CFA unit but no speaker taps, purely an xlr based amp. So I believe I would need the ti-1b. Running the abyss TC on my unit I tend to run at 10 or 11


By TI-1a I meant the first version of the TI-1b box, but in the metal enclosure instead of the new polycarbonate enclosure used with the TI-1b.  My TI-1a connects to the XLR out, not speaker taps like the resistor box.  As far as I know, the TI-1a and TI-1b are identical internally--the only difference is the enclosure.  (In fact, if you look at RAAL-requisite's website listing for the TI-1b, it refers to the TI-1a throughout, presumably because they just haven't updated it yet:  https://raalrequisite.com/product/ti-1b/).


----------



## Homrsimson

Hiker816 said:


> By TI-1a I meant the first version of the TI-1b box, but in the metal enclosure instead of the new polycarbonate enclosure used with the TI-1b.  My TI-1a connects to the XLR out, not speaker taps like the resistor box.  As far as I know, the TI-1a and TI-1b are identical internally--the only difference is the enclosure.  (In fact, if you look at RAAL-requisite's website listing for the TI-1b, it refers to the TI-1a throughout, presumably because they just haven't updated it yet:  https://raalrequisite.com/product/ti-1b/).


thanks for the info, that’s really helpful. Also nice to know I can hunt for the 1a as well


----------



## jlbrach

Hiker816 said:


> I think it depends on your CFA3.  I can drive my SR1a with the CFA3 via the Ti-1a box with about 10 times more headroom than I would ever need.  (Listening to it right now, at 8 o'clock).


has to be an attenuation issue because with mine out of my chord dave and sr1a I am around 3 o clock


----------



## paradoxper

genefruit said:


> I had the CA-1A with the TI-1a interface that I used with my CFA3.  If memory serves, the CA-1A needed approximately the same amount of gain (within 1db or so) as the Susvara for the same db.  Plenty of headroom in my use case and didn't leave me wondering if I was getting the best out of the CA-1A.  Ultimately they went to the market, as I wasn't reaching for them very often and hoarding headphones isn't my end game.


I missed that you parted with. Honeymoon couldn't last. It's why I didn't bother. Well, in part, mostly because I'm too happy with things as they are.


----------



## genefruit

paradoxper said:


> I missed that you parted with. Honeymoon couldn't last. It's why I didn't bother. Well, in part, mostly because I'm too happy with things as they are.


I never dabbled with the SR1a so I figured this was a way to kill my curiosity for the essence of it and the CA1a in one take.


----------



## paradoxper

genefruit said:


> I never dabbled with the SR1a so I figured this was a way to kill my curiosity for the essence of it and the CA1a in one take.


I believe you got the gist as they both follow the same traits and are specialty presentations. I hardly ever listen to the SR1a for enjoyment.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Oct 11, 2022)

The CFA-3 NEEDS  "saturation" for full and proper enjoyment as others have said....   I have not heard much tube equipment- but my Hibiki SDS dac saturates the sound with ultra thick sonic density which I have never heard from any solid state dac or amplifier in my life and is a superb match for the CFA-3 in this regard.  The thing I cant get over is that with this level of stunning saturation and smoothness, I would have thought detail and speed would be lost, but the detail is also the best I have ever heard-only that it's presentation is smooth rather than crisp- which IMHO is so so much more natural.  Regarding speed; this thing is seriously dynamically explosive.  The bass has a kind of deep grunt, like the engine of the best sports car. 

No 300B for me for the time being....


----------



## lsantista

This bird has flown.. from Northern Europe to its new home in South America for the past few weeks, and today it rises again! What a beautiful, open, detailed, addictive sound 

Thanks to Kevin Gilmore, @RudeWolf for building it and @Sandro Sena and @ericohgb for pointing me the way


----------



## lsantista

also playing so beautifully the K1000. Yes it will demand near or max volume for loud levels on most classical recordings... That said, it is a night and day difference to a 100w Denon receiver I was using priorly to power the AKG, and I didnt listen to anything unpleasant with the volume control at max. The CFA3 tops it everywhere with good marging other than loudness, as expected. Even dynamics didnt suffer IMHO. Of course an AV receiver is not what most here would use to power the K1000. 
With the HD800/800S it is transformative compared to the Meier Symphony I mostly used before, more open in all directions, highs are sweet, bass is improved but not overwhelming, it doesn't sound coloured. Same with my 500 series sennheisers, the CFA3 bettered them by far margin. Even the 800, the most hard to drive of my "normal" headphones, gets deafning loud (but not shouty) before 12 o clock to me.
My non elaborate audiophile lingo is probably limiting my description, but well, count me as one more very happy CFA3 user with the most demanding headphone I know. Plus Rudi's build  it is the most beatiful audio gear Ive owned and by far my favorite looking SS amp.
Using it with the Spring 3 with preamp and I dont feel need for a tube pre. Actually, Maybe I should mention a non direct comparisson: I had a kgsshv carbon and I would rate it a spot on neutral and SS sounding; the CFA by comparisson sounds more tubey for me already.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Oct 15, 2022)

I'm curious to ask those who use a tube preamp with their CFA-3- if you use the preamp as the volume control, or if you set the preamp to a certain volume and then user the CFA-3 volume control.  I believe the second option would really redefine the preamp as a "tube buffer" instead of a "preamp" as the preamp is technically made to be a volume control.

I have little experience with tube amps in the last 15 years but using my audio-gd vacuum tube HE-1 with my CFA-3 and having tested both options- I vastly prefer the "tube buffer" option as I find the bass much tighter and focused and overall detail retrieval noticeably better.   Using the audio-gd as the preamp IMHO and in my system is just to bloated, to round, and involves to much sacrifice of technicalities.  This could be due to my dac already being extremely saturated in its presentation and therefore in combination with the tube pre, it is to much of a good thing.  Using the audio-gd as a "tube buffer" instead of a preamp increases detail, and soundstage while imparting a very linear tube sound with no loss to bass focus and tightness.  Meaning- there is ZERO tradeoffs using the audio-gd as a tube buffer and only gains IMHO.

I would appreciate others to share their insights with me on this issue...


----------



## RudeWolf

lsantista said:


> also playing so beautifully the K1000. Yes it will demand near or max volume for loud levels on most classical recordings... That said, it is a night and day difference to a 100w Denon receiver I was using priorly to power the AKG, and I didnt listen to anything unpleasant with the volume control at max. The CFA3 tops it everywhere with good marging other than loudness, as expected. Even dynamics didnt suffer IMHO. Of course an AV receiver is not what most here would use to power the K1000.
> With the HD800/800S it is transformative compared to the Meier Symphony I mostly used before, more open in all directions, highs are sweet, bass is improved but not overwhelming, it doesn't sound coloured. Same with my 500 series sennheisers, the CFA3 bettered them by far margin. Even the 800, the most hard to drive of my "normal" headphones, gets deafning loud (but not shouty) before 12 o clock to me.
> My non elaborate audiophile lingo is probably limiting my description, but well, count me as one more very happy CFA3 user with the most demanding headphone I know. Plus Rudi's build  it is the most beatiful audio gear Ive owned and by far my favorite looking SS amp.
> Using it with the Spring 3 with preamp and I dont feel need for a tube pre. Actually, Maybe I should mention a non direct comparisson: I had a kgsshv carbon and I would rate it a spot on neutral and SS sounding; the CFA by comparisson sounds more tubey for me already.


I’m super happy that you like it! I really built the amp with most upgrades I could think of, so it should display the best of the CFA3 design. Too bad I didn’t use it enough to justify keeping it.

Might build the tube pre one next.


----------



## migo

RudeWolf said:


> I’m super happy that you like it! I really built the amp with most upgrades I could think of, so it should display the best of the CFA3 design. Too bad I didn’t use it enough to justify keeping it.
> 
> Might build the tube pre one next.


What was exact specs of this CFA3 build and its upgrades? Thanks.


----------



## lsantista (Oct 16, 2022)

I believe you’ll find your answers in the first post of this very thread, below for your convenience:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/

If you need more specifics, RudeW or I can try to help. Edit: I ask him to add speaker taps in the end , havent tested it yet but they look beautiful with their copper finish. I also dig the oversized , dead silent volume knob and its bronze finish
I listened a lot of (non classical) genres yesterday with the k1000 and it was a bliss, plenty of volume and energy/emotion at 12 o’clock and deafening to me some 3-4 hours past that before.


----------



## migo

lsantista said:


> I believe you’ll find your answers in the first post of this very thread, below for your convenience:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/
> 
> ...


Thank you, this @RudeWolf  build inspired mine build too!


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> I'm curious to ask those who use a tube preamp with their CFA-3- if you use the preamp as the volume control, or if you set the preamp to a certain volume and then user the CFA-3 volume control.  I believe the second option would really redefine the preamp as a "tube buffer" instead of a "preamp" as the preamp is technically made to be a volume control.
> 
> I have little experience with tube amps in the last 15 years but using my audio-gd vacuum tube HE-1 with my CFA-3 and having tested both options- I vastly prefer the "tube buffer" option as I find the bass much tighter and focused and overall detail retrieval noticeably better.   Using the audio-gd as the preamp IMHO and in my system is just to bloated, to round, and involves to much sacrifice of technicalities.  This could be due to my dac already being extremely saturated in its presentation and therefore in combination with the tube pre, it is to much of a good thing.  Using the audio-gd as a "tube buffer" instead of a preamp increases detail, and soundstage while imparting a very linear tube sound with no loss to bass focus and tightness.  Meaning- there is ZERO tradeoffs using the audio-gd as a tube buffer and only gains IMHO.
> 
> I would appreciate others to share their insights with me on this issue...


May have something to do with the attenuation of HE-1. Or, as you've alluded, perhaps your DAC of which I'm unfamiliar with.


----------



## normie610

CFA3 truly is the GOAT! Using it now with my newly acquired CRBN, paired with Mjolnir’s SRD-7 (and of course my trusty Elrog equipped 300B preamp 😁) and the CRBN sounds sublime! After 10 hours of burning in, the bass is really incredible for an estat. For me CFA3 is the one amp to rule them all 👌🏼


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> CFA3 truly is the GOAT! Using it now with my newly acquired CRBN, paired with Mjolnir’s SRD-7 (and of course my trusty Elrog equipped 300B preamp 😁) and the CRBN sounds sublime! After 10 hours of burning in, the bass is really incredible for an estat. For me CFA3 is the one amp to rule them all 👌🏼


Makes me wonder how Uberamp would scale and how a better transformer would play. Great versatility you're utilizing with CFA3.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Makes me wonder how Uberamp would scale and how a better transformer would play. Great versatility you're utilizing with CFA3.


It is indeed very versatile and capable. I know it’s not specifically designed to drive ribbons or estats, but with high quality components such as Raal’s interface and/or transformer box + Mjolnir SRD-7, it can drive them beautifully. Glad I asked Miroslav from the beginning to have those speaker posts installed as I did want the maximum versatility out of CFA3.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> It is indeed very versatile and capable. I know it’s not specifically designed to drive ribbons or estats, but with high quality components such as Raal’s interface and/or transformer box + Mjolnir SRD-7, it can drive them beautifully. Glad I asked Miroslav from the beginning to have those speaker posts installed as I did want the maximum versatility out of CFA3.


I think you only need to try MySphere with CFA3 now. I'm thinking full Elrog transformer box. Ha.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> I'm thinking full Elrog transformer box. Ha.


With double-quad Elrogs 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> With double-quad Elrogs 😁


We have a serious issue.


----------



## RudeWolf (Oct 28, 2022)

As I've sold my CFA3 due to not using it fully (my headphones can't have a BAL connection), my mind has dwelt on the KG Tube Hybrid circuit. It's a 6DJ8 front end powering a half of the CFA3 darlington output for SE duties. Needs only one 6DJ8, so tube shortage shouldn't be much of a problem. At least for now.

The good:
1. Still no overall negative feedback
2. Toobs (no need to hunt for exotic JFETs)
3. That tasty darlington output we know and love
4. On-board turn-on delay/DC protector
5. DC-coupled

The bad:
1. The circuit needs FIVE different voltages to run (+/-15VDC, +/-30VDC, -5VDC, +100VDC, 6.3V/0.3A heater of infinite variety)
2. The stock PCB needs outboard cooling and I still haven't found a good enclosure for it
3. SE-only

The ugly:
1. Going all fancy with powering will make the resulting device not much smaller than the CFA3
2. 100VDC will happily kill you, if you let it
3. Part availability currently is all over the place (currently KSA1156/KSC5026 seem extinct from the regular sources, KSA1381/KSC3503 seem like alternatives)

Currently my plan is to redraw the existing PCB for a commonly available (dissipante/rando-china) enclosure. Maybe I'll replace some parts with SMT analogs and add some filtering/decoupling to make the circuit more resistant to RFI. I don't see much possibility for shrinking the PCB down, so don't hold your breath.


----------



## kevin gilmore

a fully balanced version of this is easy to do. also no feedback.

IF you can get the parts.  

The +/-15 supplies can be eliminated if you use high voltage servo opamps.
One of a number of projects i am working on, waiting for the parts situation to at least stabilize.
a much higher power CFA3 is also in the works.


----------



## RudeWolf

If we substitute KSA1156/KSC5026 for KSA1381/KSC3503, then it should be buildable now. The THPS should have all of the parts readily available as well. With say OPA445 and everything running from +/-30VDC, a single GRHV100 and GRLV should power it all. Of course, there's still the -5VDC, so a local regulator for the protector might be needed.

So far with large heatsink brackets this case seems like the most likely candidate. Or we stretch the PCB to fit better. I personally have some huge brackets which would reach the board fine.


----------



## kevin gilmore

that particular design is a dual opamp, so you have to make an adapter for that, otherwise correct.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Do our CFA-3's have a fuse in the PS and if so has anyone tried an audiophile fuse to see if it made any change?


----------



## Dukei (Nov 7, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> Do our CFA-3's have a fuse in the PS and if so has anyone tried an audiophile fuse to see if it made any change?


All my amps use fuse. 5x20mm size. The fuse tray is accessed externally, it is on the IEC inlet. There is a small tab that can be pried open with a flathead screwdriver and the tray should pop out. 2,5A rating for 230V and 3,15A for 115V. Slow blow.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Dukei said:


> All my amps use fuse. 5x20mm size. The fuse tray is accessed externally, it is on the IEC inlet. There is a small tab that can be pried open with a flathead screwdriver and the tray should pop out. 3,15A rating for 230V and 2,5A for 115V. Slow blow.


Thanks for the info.....   Has anyone tried one of these SR Purple fuses in the CFA-3?


----------



## kevin gilmore

a new year teaser
sanken output transistors.
with a big enough power supply, capable of 25 amps.
yes the power supply will be switchers designed for class D amplifiers


----------



## brianfromspace

Hi @Dukei, do you still build the CFA3 for people interested? I am for my current hungry DCA Expanse. 😄


----------



## Sound Eq (Dec 27, 2022)

is cfa capable to drives susvara properly

how is cfa3 compared to enleum with susvara


----------



## paradoxper

kevin gilmore said:


> a new year teaser
> sanken output transistors.
> with a big enough power supply, capable of 25 amps.
> yes the power supply will be switchers designed for class D amplifiers


Seems like this could have been like an uberamp3.


----------



## kevin gilmore

uberamp2 is good for 500 watts into 8 ohms. and is a true cfa amplifier. not zero feedback.


----------



## paradoxper

kevin gilmore said:


> uberamp2 is good for 500 watts into 8 ohms. and is a true cfa amplifier. not zero feedback.


Always the nth degree.

What's the output proposed for the new teaser amp?


----------



## kevin gilmore (Nov 23, 2022)

it will work with power supplies from +/-24v to +/-45v.
with +/-40v power its 100 watts rms per channel into 8 ohms.

subject to suitable sized heatsinks and power supply


----------



## lsantista

Sound Eq said:


> is cfa capable to drives susvara properly
> 
> how is cfa3 compared to eneeum with susvara


I do love the CFA3 driving my 74dB/mW  K1000, this combo is getting more and more headtime and it gets _very_ loud at about 12-13 o'clock, and it's foot tapping all the time. Maybe on my previous coment I suggested I wasnt getting enough volume with classical, I should further clarify I may have put too much emphasis on those 3-4 _test_ albums where the recording is exceptionally low volume. Other then those, even the average classical recording gets plenty low at around 12
I heard the Susvara and HD800s on the Volot (rated 16W at 32ohm), then the 800s on the CFA3 and prefered the CFA sound signature (this is admitdly on different systems and short listens on the Volot, so dont quote me on this). All that said, sorry but havnt listened the Sus on the CFA.


----------



## paradoxper

kevin gilmore said:


> it will work with power supplies from +/-24v to +/-45v.
> with +/-40v power its 100 watts rms per channel into 8 ohms.
> 
> subject to suitable sized heatsinks and power supply


And so do I need another amp.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> And so do I need another amp.


count me in


----------



## jlbrach

Sound Eq said:


> is cfa capable to drives susvara properly
> 
> how is cfa3 compared to eneeum with susvara


there is no HP that the CFA3 cannot drive


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> count me in


You were supposed to say no.


----------



## Hiker816

paradoxper said:


> You were supposed to say no.


For anyone who dares ask the question, the proper answer to "And so do I need another amp?", has always been, is now, and forever will be, "Why, yes.  Yes, of course I do."


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> You were supposed to say no.


Alright no. But count me in.


----------



## paradoxper

Hiker816 said:


> For anyone who dares ask the question, the proper answer to "And so do I need another amp?", has always been, is now, and forever will be, "Why, yes.  Yes, of course I do."





normie610 said:


> Alright no. But count me in.


Ah, but of course not. *Clicks Buy It Now*


----------



## UntilThen

paradoxper said:


> And so do I need another amp.



No.


----------



## migo

Sound Eq said:


> is cfa capable to drives susvara properly


IMO it can, and it is a joy to listen!


Sound Eq said:


> how is cfa3 compared to eneeum with susvara


----------



## paradoxper

UntilThen said:


> No.


You are correct.

Only as I see this between a CFA3 and uberamp. 

I don't have an application that fits without some redundancy.


----------



## UntilThen

paradoxper said:


> You are correct.
> 
> Only as I see this between a CFA3 and uberamp.
> 
> I don't have an application that fits without some redundancy.



Just messing with you. You and I can have as many amps as we like.


----------



## paradoxper

UntilThen said:


> Just messing with you. You and I can have as many amps as we like.


Could. I am also more strategic so I actually use the amps.


----------



## UntilThen

paradoxper said:


> Could. I am also more strategic so I actually use the amps.



So do I !


----------



## xirxes

Keenly interested in auditioning one of these rare amps. It is my understanding that it may very well take to spot for SS amp on the market to my slightly warm of neutral tastes.

Anyone in SoCal have this for a meetup? 

Looking for a shootout between this amp and Enleum 23R v1.


----------



## MN8372

xirxes said:


> Keenly interested in auditioning one of these rare amps. It is my understanding that it may very well take to spot for SS amp on the market to my slightly warm of neutral tastes.
> 
> Anyone in SoCal have this for a meetup?
> 
> Looking for a shootout between this amp and Enleum 23R v1.


I wouldn’t describe it as slightly warm of neutral.  It’s just neutral.  I’m sensitive to splashy treble and have had no issues at all with this amp.  I always used to go for warmer components as extra transparency often came at the price of an unrefined treble.  That’s not the case with this amp.  Add to that the power and punch and it’s just a great all rounder.

I know I need to try a tube pre amp (just because..) but am in no rush as it’s amazing as it is.   

Price is good too so for me was worth the risk buying without audition


----------



## dude120

MN8372 said:


> I wouldn’t describe it as slightly warm of neutral.  It’s just neutral.  I’m sensitive to splashy treble and have had no issues at all with this amp.  I always used to go for warmer components as extra transparency often came at the price of an unrefined treble.  That’s not the case with this amp.  Add to that the power and punch and it’s just a great all rounder.
> 
> I know I need to try a tube pre amp (just because..) but am in no rush as it’s amazing as it is.
> 
> Price is good too so for me was worth the risk buying without audition


How do you like the may kte with the cfa3? Have you tried any other dacs with the cfa3?

And yeah the cfa3 has been amazing with Everything I've tried on it so far including the dca stealth, 1266, and susvara.


----------



## MN8372

dude120 said:


> How do you like the may kte with the cfa3? Have you tried any other dacs with the cfa3?
> 
> And yeah the cfa3 has been amazing with Everything I've tried on it so far including the dca stealth, 1266, and susvara.



I like it very much thanks but I haven’t tried any other dacs with this amp.   

I use it with a silent PC running Euphony and HQ Player embedded.  The ASDM7EC modulator in Hqplayer has that 3D holographic effect - very tube like.  I spent 2 x the amount on my PC and linear power supplies as I did on the amplifier which is bonkers reallly.  The amp was much better value for money.

The amp is also a good match with my LCD5 with EQ (running a convolution filter in HQPlayer works so well).  I’m someone who likes the LCD 5 without EQ but it does get better with EQ.   So much punchier and meatier than the Susvara.  I like both phones equally - they have different strengths. 

I think next step is the 1266 (but suspect I will need the SC cable to flesh out the mids for my taste) and then a 300B tube pre.


----------



## paradoxper

Another year complete, CFA3 remains blistering. Thanks KG!


----------



## eskamobob1

paradoxper said:


> Another year complete, CFA3 remains blistering. Thanks KG!



Oh damn, you were the one that grabbed this dac? Curious for impressions


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> Another year complete, CFA3 remains blistering. Thanks KG!


you have your TC hanging exactly as I do...got those hanging gizmo's on amazon and they do an outstanding job


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Another year complete, CFA3 remains blistering. Thanks KG!


Argh that Acuhorn is really tempting. Do you know what the output is from its RCA? There’s an inconsistency in the manual, 2.8Vrms vs. 1.4Vrms. If it’s 1.4, it could be too weak on my system. My Lumin T2 has 3Vrms output from its RCA.


----------



## paradoxper

eskamobob1 said:


> Oh damn, you were the one that grabbed this dac? Curious for impressions


It's a neutral tit with exceptional midrange clarity, real weighted presence and the largest soundstage of any DAC I've heard.
45's soften the sound and lean into the vivid technicolor while 300B adds more warmth, bloom and bombastic heft.
101D follow the 2A3 with more tightness (kind of sterile) and are more forward but pretty thin.

The Elrogs are really where it shines fleshing things out with more balance and leading transients.


jlbrach said:


> you have your TC hanging exactly as I do...got those hanging gizmo's on amazon and they do an outstanding job


They do the job better than any of the ridiculous headphone stands.




normie610 said:


> Argh that Acuhorn is really tempting. Do you know what the output is from its RCA? There’s an inconsistency in the manual, 2.8Vrms vs. 1.4Vrms. If it’s 1.4, it could be too weak on my system. My Lumin T2 has 3Vrms output from its RCA.


I would have actually guessed more but I've asked Wojciech so there's no misinformation.​


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> I would have actually guessed more but I've asked
> Wojciech so there's no misinformation.​


Great!


----------



## geoffalter11

My two chassis CFA3. Lovin’ it! Happy Holidays!


----------



## sahmen

Has anyone had the chance to compare the CFA3 with the Holo Bliss in terms of their sonic performances. It seems the Bilss is primed to be a close competitor to the CFA3 in term of price and performance, but I would really enjoy hearing some comparative impressions from folks who have heard them both.


----------



## eskamobob1

sahmen said:


> Has anyone had the chance to compare the CFA3 with the Holo Bliss in terms of their sonic performances. It seems the Bilss is primed to be a close competitor to the CFA3 in term of price and performance, but I would really enjoy hearing some comparative impressions from folks who have heard them both.



I am yet to hear of anyone who has had them side by side. @GoldenOne has heard both and prefers bliss. Just personally though, as someone who has one in house currently but doesn't own it, I personally rank cfa a bit higher up than he does


----------



## K3cT

Isn’t Bliss around the same ballpark as Ferrum OOR? If so any well implemented KG design should be better, punchier and has more heft to its sound, not as sterile or boring.


----------



## geoffalter11

K3cT said:


> Isn’t Bliss around the same ballpark as Ferrum OOR? If so any well implemented KG design should be better, punchier and has more heft to its sound, not as sterile or boring.


What do you mean by same ballpark?  Price or design?


----------



## GoldenOne

K3cT said:


> Isn’t Bliss around the same ballpark as Ferrum OOR? If so any well implemented KG design should be better, punchier and has more heft to its sound, not as sterile or boring.


In price yes.
In sound no not really


----------



## eskamobob1

K3cT said:


> Isn’t Bliss around the same ballpark as Ferrum OOR? If so any well implemented KG design should be better, punchier and has more heft to its sound, not as sterile or boring.



Don't judge off the price. Tbh even as someone who isn't a fan of most holo stuff, it generaly does represent very solid value at new pricing.


----------



## K3cT

geoffalter11 said:


> What do you mean by same ballpark?  Price or design?



Price I mean. It pops up so frequently in the classifieds nowadays.


----------



## goldwerger

sahmen said:


> Has anyone had the chance to compare the CFA3 with the Holo Bliss in terms of their sonic performances. It seems the Bilss is primed to be a close competitor to the CFA3 in term of price and performance, but I would really enjoy hearing some comparative impressions from folks who have heard them both.



@genefruit has had both the CFA3 and Bliss, perhaps he could share his comparative impressions..


----------



## genefruit

goldwerger said:


> @genefruit has had both the CFA3 and Bliss, perhaps he could share his comparative impressions..


I've shared my thoughts with @sahmen and my thoughts haven't deviated.  I'll share them here, as they were more of a stream of consciousness over several messages.  I don't every plan to write a review between the two, especially since I've sold my CFA3.

I'll preface my response with a few caveats. Both amps are great and I'm not sure one is clearly "better" than the other. I also cycle through equipment as part of my enjoyment of this hobby. I don't believe there is an "end game" setup but rather one that I will eventually end with when I get bored with the hobby.

My CFA-3 had speaker outs which I used when I had a Raal and an energizer, so the design features were valuable. Now that I have a dedicated electrostatic amp and have sold the Raal, I don't have the need. The Bliss has the preamp out feature, which I use to feed by Stellaris and Aeras amplifiers, which I like. I like the reduced size of the Bliss, the remote control, and the aesthetics.

Both amps have plenty of power for my use but the CFA-3 certainly has more which could be useful for those who are looking to drive speakers as well.

I haven't experienced any overheating events or noise with either amp. My CFA-3 was a one case model so the power supply was internal to it versus some of the two case builds.

CFA-3 (my build, as you have to keep in mind that each one is a bit different) is a bit more laid back in the mids than the Bliss. Once can see that as a benefit or a detriment, depending upon the rest of their chain and presentation preferences. In my use case, I prefer the Bliss, based on the feature set first and the difference in sound second. I could have possibly ended up with a Holo Serene preamp and kept the CFA-3 and been just as happy.

Goldensound's measurements indicate the Bliss has better performance over the CFA-3. That matters if measurements matter to you.

CFA-3 support is limited to your builder, the DIY community, and your ability with such things. Holo is a "company" (maybe sorta) with a smaller dealer network. Not sure whether one is better than the other.  So much of this comes down to you. What's your comfort level purchasing a DIY amplifier that is supported by the community/builder versus a commercial product. How much customization do you want? With a used CFA-3 build, you're living with what the previous person decided was what was best for their use case. Might not align. Might be a bit more difficult to sell the CFA-3 if it's not the right amp for you, maybe not. The hoops it takes to commission one and the wait keep some from pursuing, so a quick purchase is enticing.

Holo Bliss is a very good commercial product that is supported by a dealer network and is on a upward market demand curve. You'll likely get most of your money back in the resale market if it's not for you. That said, I'd be surprised if you're unhappy with it as a choice. I think it's the safer choice today between the two but not by much.

Personally, I made the right choice by purchasing the Bliss and selling the CFA-3. I don't consider it a step backwards, sonically, and the preamp feature provides me what I was looking for to support my Stellaris and Aeras. As far as how one sounds compared to the other, the Bliss is a bit more forward, incisive than the CFA-3 which I consider a bit more laid back but will vary depending upon what parts were chosen by the consignee and builder.

This week's latest and greatest is the Zahl. I'm sure it's great as well but the features don't align with my needs and the price is more than I'm interesting in spending on solid state performance.

Considering soundstage and bass response, I find them very similar. Both are at the far end of the performance scale and their similarities are greater than their differences, especially when it comes to sound. I expect others might write volumes about a chasm between two amplifiers in a number of factors/metrics but in this case I cannot. I'm often skeptical when others write about these significant differences. My experience for my ears is amplification differences, especially when comparing the same topology (class A in this case) comes down to nuances that require an extensive amount of listening between both and easily can be flawed due to level matching, etc.

All of that said, I think the Bliss is slightly "better" with the caveats of my ears, my CFA-3 build (single chassis and parts selection), and my chain (in signature).


----------



## goldwerger (Dec 31, 2022)

genefruit said:


> I've shared my thoughts with @sahmen and my thoughts haven't deviated.  I'll share them here, as they were more of a stream of consciousness over several messages.  I don't every plan to write a review between the two, especially since I've sold my CFA3.
> 
> I'll preface my response with a few caveats. Both amps are great and I'm not sure one is clearly "better" than the other. I also cycle through equipment as part of my enjoyment of this hobby. I don't believe there is an "end game" setup but rather one that I will eventually end with when I get bored with the hobby.
> 
> ...



Thanks!

To that I’ll add @sahmen that my own reference amp is the Auris Nirvana, and my (very) initial impressions of the CFA-3 compared to the Nirvana is that it has a slightly better resolution in the treble region, which results in a slightly more airy presentation and a bigger soundstage, whereas the Nirvana has more bass texture and a more holographically presented soundstage. These are super nuances (all off the same source and dac). But with some hair splitting, I’d say the CFA-3 is a touch more counter-clockwise tuned. This means (as always) synergies (warmer source or, in many case, warm headphones) can help guide its ultimate fit.

For absolute, rather than comparative, input - I’ll iterate what I’m sure has been said many times prior here - it is a very powerful amp with oodles of headroom, highly resolving, and dead quiet. A classic quality SS amp!


----------



## vonBaron

So CFA-3 isn't that good huh?


----------



## goldwerger

vonBaron said:


> So CFA-3 isn't that good huh?


IMHO, it’s fantastic


----------



## FOUNDERZERO

vonBaron said:


> So CFA-3 isn't that good huh?


One of the best solid state amplifiers out there. No good! Time to pack it up and get on the HM1 train, folks! 😏


----------



## geoffalter11

vonBaron said:


> So CFA-3 isn't that good huh?





vonBaron said:


> So CFA-3 isn't that good huh?


It is sensational. I’d put it in the Top 5 of SS amps. Bliss, CFA3, Niimbus, Zahl, Cen. Grand Silver Fox. The Silver Fox is new but the 6 moons review was incredibly flattering.

I don’t think I could rate these 1 to 5. If you have one of them you have top tier SS amplification.


----------



## geoffalter11

FOUNDERZERO said:


> One of the best solid state amplifiers out there. No good! Time to pack it up and get on the HM1 train, folks! 😏


Zahl might be great, but for 3x times the cost I wouldn’t buy one personally. Diminishing returns is too great for me. Plus, I couldn’t be happier with my CFA3. I also have one of the true unicorn amps in the hobby, Cembalo Labs Spring 1 which is also very close and gives me two SS amps that are extremely good. 

I love trying new gear, but for once I am satisfied with my chain and will put my energy to headphones. I have spent most of my time on my chain over the past couple yrs.


----------



## geoffalter11

goldwerger said:


> IMHO, it’s fantastic





goldwerger said:


> IMHO, it’s fantastic


@goldwerger speaks the truth.


----------



## FOUNDERZERO (Dec 31, 2022)

geoffalter11 said:


> Zahl might be great, but for 3x times the cost I wouldn’t buy one personally. Diminishing returns is too great for me. Plus, I couldn’t be happier with my CFA3. I also have one of the true unicorn amps in the hobby, Cembalo Labs Spring 1 which is also very close and gives me two SS amps that are extremely good.
> 
> I love trying new gear, but for once I am satisfied with my chain and will put my energy to headphones. I have spent most of my time on my chain over the past couple yrs.


I was being completely sarcastic. 😉

I'm extremely happy with my CFA3... especially when paired with a tube DAC like the SFD-2. I could only see myself getting an Eksonic Aeras from here for that e-stat goodness. 😄


----------



## geoffalter11

FOUNDERZERO said:


> I was being completely sarcastic. 😉
> 
> I'm extremely happy with my CFA3... especially when paired with a tube DAC like the SFD-2. I could only see myself getting an Eksonic Aeras from here for that e-stat goodness. 😄


haha... I missed your sarcasm.  Whoops!  Sheepish...  May the Schwartz be with you!  I bet that SFD-2 sounds amazing with the CFA3.  I'd like to try tubes in front of my CFA3 at some point.  Probably not anytime soon, but it is definitely on my list of things to try in this hobby.  Unfortunately, my list is too large.


----------



## normie610

geoffalter11 said:


> I'd like to try tubes in front of my CFA3 at some point.  Probably not anytime soon, but it is definitely on my list of things to try in this hobby.


Go on! Get that 300B pre asap!! 😁


----------



## geoffalter11 (Jan 1, 2023)

normie610 said:


> Go on! Get that 300B pre asap!! 😁


Little (a lot) outside the budget. But, I know it would be transformative. Maybe one day.


----------



## normie610

Just want to reiterate how fantastic and versatile CFA3 is, especially if the owner chooses to have speaker output installed. I’m using CFA3 to drive planar (1266 TC and Susvara), ribbons (Raal siblings) and estats (CRBN w/ Mjolnir‘s energizer). It has such incredible dynamics and control, and when paired with a 300B preamp, it’s really hard to find something that can match its performance. You get the best of both worlds, that sweet 300B sound plus the power and impact of CFA3. I don’t think I would ever live without a 300B pre and SS amp combo (except maybe one day I could get my hands on Vinnie Rossi’s Brama integrated speaker amp 😁).

Having said that, I’d still love to one day hear the Envy, Red October or even Grand Cayman. But I suspect their level of dynamics and impact won’t be at the level of CFA3 and 300B pre combo.


----------



## sahmen

geoffalter11 said:


> It is sensational. I’d put it in the Top 5 of SS amps. Bliss, CFA3, Niimbus, Zahl, Cen. Grand Silver Fox. The Silver Fox is new but the 6 moons review was incredibly flattering.
> 
> I don’t think I could rate these 1 to 5. If you have one of them you have top tier SS amplification.


This is interesting. I have a Niimbus which drives my Sus and 1266 TC quite satisfactorily, so am I wrong in allowing the CFA3 and the Holo Bliss to inflame my nervosa? I have been dreaming of "upgrading" my amp (Niimbus) to one of those (if that might appropriately be called "an upgrade"), but I would be disappointed if the expected delta of improved performance between the Niimbus and either the CFA3 or the Bliss does not turn out to be big enough to warrant the hassle. I know this is a piece of wishful thinking, but I do wish I could audition the CFA3 and/or the Bliss in order to compare them to the Niimbus before pulling any trigger.

So if anyone here has auditioned the Niimbus as well as the either the CFA3 or the Bliss or both, and can comment on deltas of performance, please chime in. Thanks in advance,


----------



## geoffalter11

sahmen said:


> This is interesting. I have a Niimbus which drives my Sus and 1266 TC quite satisfactorily, so am I wrong in allowing the CFA3 and the Holo Bliss to inflame my nervosa? I have been dreaming of "upgrading" my amp (Niimbus) to one of those (if that might appropriately be called "an upgrade"), but I would be disappointed if the expected delta of improved performance between the Niimbus and either the CFA3 or the Bliss does not turn out to be big enough to warrant the hassle. I know this is a piece of wishful thinking, but I do wish I could audition the CFA3 and/or the Bliss in order to compare them to the Niimbus before pulling any trigger.
> 
> So if anyone here has auditioned the Niimbus as well as the either the CFA3 or the Bliss or both, and can comment on deltas of performance, please chime in. Thanks in advance,


I can’t imagine the CFA3 or Bliss being better than your Niimbus. On par, but not necessarily better. I haven’t heard the Niimbus so this is all conjecture. But, at half the price I can see the value proposition coming into play.  I love the CFA3, but have a feeling my opinion would be the same if I had a Niimbus. I would imagine I would be equally as happy.

Then there is the bug of wonder and curiosity that plagues us all. We are the ultimate consumers for these designers. Always willing to try the next thing. So hard to not want to hear it all…


----------



## vonBaron

sahmen said:


> This is interesting. I have a Niimbus which drives my Sus and 1266 TC quite satisfactorily, so am I wrong in allowing the CFA3 and the Holo Bliss to inflame my nervosa? I have been dreaming of "upgrading" my amp (Niimbus) to one of those (if that might appropriately be called "an upgrade"), but I would be disappointed if the expected delta of improved performance between the Niimbus and either the CFA3 or the Bliss does not turn out to be big enough to warrant the hassle. I know this is a piece of wishful thinking, but I do wish I could audition the CFA3 and/or the Bliss in order to compare them to the Niimbus before pulling any trigger.
> 
> So if anyone here has auditioned the Niimbus as well as the either the CFA3 or the Bliss or both, and can comment on deltas of performance, please chime in. Thanks in advance,


Don't bother... If you really want somethning better than Niimbus go for Woo WA23/33.


----------



## slumberman

Hey all,

Aside from the Manley Labs 300B which currently is out of my budget, which tube preamps would you suggest to pair with the CFA3?

Thank you!


----------



## normie610

slumberman said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Aside from the Manley Labs 300B which currently is out of my budget, which tube preamps would you suggest to pair with the CFA3?
> 
> Thank you!


Supratek Cabernet DHT


----------



## genefruit

normie610 said:


> Supratek Cabernet DHT


URL for reference - http://www.supratek.com.au/. I have the Cabernet Dual 6SN7/DHT on order


----------



## Hiker816

genefruit said:


> URL for reference - http://www.supratek.com.au/. I have the Cabernet Dual 6SN7/DHT on order


I just got word mine is ready for shipment!


----------



## normie610

Hiker816 said:


> I just got word mine is ready for shipment!


How long is the lead time for your order?


----------



## Hiker816

normie610 said:


> How long is the lead time for your order?


I placed my order in mid-August, and it shipped today.  I think Mick was waiting for parts--particularly transformers--which delayed things.  I got the impression it doesn't normally take quite that long.


----------



## Hiker816

Hiker816 said:


> I placed my order in mid-August, and it shipped today.  I think Mick was waiting for parts--particularly transformers--which delayed things.  I got the impression it doesn't normally take quite that long.


Oh, I also got a few customizations, such as a SE headphone out on the 300B circuit, which also might have extended the timeline a bit.


----------



## normie610

Hiker816 said:


> I placed my order in mid-August, and it shipped today.  I think Mick was waiting for parts--particularly transformers--which delayed things.  I got the impression it doesn't normally take quite that long.


Well congrats! You're in for a treat 👍🏼 

300B + CFA3, the summit of all summits


----------



## goldwerger

I’ve put my comparison of the *Auris Nirvana *and *CFA-3 *on 'The (Un)Official Amp Thread For ZMF Headphones' thread.

Here is a direct link to the original post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-un-official-amp-thread-for-zmf-headphones.965309/post-17336294

And here is a copy/paste of the post itself:

I've been listening to the Nirvana and CFA-3 side by side, comparing them over the last few weeks - mostly with the Caldera, Atrium, and HD800s - and have found that they offer a consistent distinction across the board.

I must first say that I love them both. Having a taste of both a great tube and ss amplification on hand is a privilege. They are both very well balanced, with clean and linear amplification and no coloring. So they offer less of a contrast as they do a nuances, but the differences are notable. I would be happy listening only to either, and without a direct comparison I would likely never be the wiser.

*Auris Nirvana* (gain tube: Siemens 5814A 1974 / power tubes: Sophia Electric EL34-ST) -- bass is more textured, and sound profile is a hint more liquid and rich.

*CFA-3 *('dukei' built, single chassis) -- treble is a touch more sparkly and open, with a slightly expanded soundstage (likely interrelated psychoacoustics).

I would probably gravitate most toward the synergy of the Caldera with the Nirvana, and the Atrium with the CFA-3 (the 800s I Iliked most with an OTL amp that's off topic here) -- there is something the Caldera on gobs of textured tube power, and similarly I find the lush decay of the Atrium to synergize beautifully with a clean ss amp.

Happy listening


----------



## slumberman (Sunday at 9:31 AM)

What’s everyone’s opinion on the Shiit Freya+ paired with the CFA3? I am trying to obtain a smoother high end on the 1266 through the CFA3 (fed by a Chord Dave/MScaler combo).

I love the transients and soundstage the CFA3 carries over, but I find it all a bit on the aggressive end of things for my taste.

As a reference, my portable setup, which I truly love, is Chord Hugo2, Woo Audio WA8 Eclipse and Abyss Diana Phi.

Also , I appreciate everyone’s recommendation on the Supratek, but it’s currently out of my budget , factoring in the import expenses. 

Thank you!


----------



## normie610

slumberman said:


> What’s everyone’s opinion on the Shiit Freya+ paired with the CFA3? I am trying to obtain a smoother high end on the 1266 through the CFA3 (fed by a Chord Dave/MScaler combo).
> 
> I love the transients and soundstage the CFA3 carries over, but I find it all a bit on the aggressive end of things for my taste.
> 
> ...


@paradoxper to the rescue (again)


----------



## goldwerger (Yesterday at 2:10 AM)

slumberman said:


> What’s everyone’s opinion on the Shiit Freya+ paired with the CFA3? I am trying to obtain a smoother high end on the 1266 through the CFA3 (fed by a Chord Dave/MScaler combo).
> 
> I love the transients and soundstage the CFA3 carries over, but I find it all a bit on the aggressive end of things for my taste.
> 
> ...



I didn’t mention this in my comparison above, but I also tried the transformer coupled Nirvana,  as well as another totl OTL amp I’ve been testing for a vendor, as preamps to the CFA-3.

The reason I didn’t mention it was because I found the results to be very similar to the CFA-3 without a tube pre. I, too, was inspired by @paradoxper to test this, but either my chain or complements in specific aren’t the right one for this or perhaps my heating isn’t tuned well enough, but I got the same (good) clean SS sound either way.

That said, I’m super content just switching to my tube amp when I crave that sound 

_UPDATE: I'm now finding that chaining these two amps may actually work well (more below in post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/post-17343382)_


----------



## slumberman

It would also be ideal (but obviously not necessary) to find a pre that could take advantage of some of these tubes since I don’t know what to do with them


----------



## goldwerger

(I use 12AU7 in my Nirvana, and it is generally not an uncommon gain tube)


----------



## paradoxper

slumberman said:


> What’s everyone’s opinion on the Shiit Freya+ paired with the CFA3? I am trying to obtain a smoother high end on the 1266 through the CFA3 (fed by a Chord Dave/MScaler combo).
> 
> I love the transients and soundstage the CFA3 carries over, but I find it all a bit on the aggressive end of things for my taste.
> 
> ...


With RCA grey glass paired with MELZ 1578, if not running MELZ 1578 quad, it does a fine job of rounding things off and without distinctly losing attack and transient sharpness. It isn't a cheap barrier to entry so not exactly my first choice but will suffice.


----------



## slumberman

paradoxper said:


> With RCA grey glass paired with MELZ 1578, if not running MELZ 1578 quad, it does a fine job of rounding things off and without distinctly losing attack and transient sharpness. It isn't a cheap barrier to entry so not exactly my first choice but will suffice.


Thank you for this. 

Would you recommend something else in that price range, or should I wait til I can step up to something in the realm of the Cabernet?


----------



## paradoxper

slumberman said:


> Thank you for this.
> 
> Would you recommend something else in that price range, or should I wait til I can step up to something in the realm of the Cabernet?


I would honestly recommend waiting and upgrading later avoiding the stopgap concession.


----------



## goldwerger

_A cross-post from the Caldera thread which may be relevant here regarding chaining the amps. I used a pre-ordered custom cable, connecting the Nirvana Headphone XLR out to  the RCA-3 dual RCA inetrconnect inputs. The Nirvana is a very clean preamp and great preamp in this setup. Also, its Nirvana remote which drives its volume too quickly in direct use, works perfect in this chained setup.
_











Late night listening on the caldera. After a shoulder surgery, for practical reasons I had to choose one headphone in advance, and the Caldera was my choice; and I put the Auris Nirvana as a pre to the CFA-3, which lets me control the volume easily with the Auris remote. This setup gets a wonderful and tactile bass, combinig a hint of tube voicing with the super clear SS being most prominent. Definition on this track is wonderful. Fun burning the midnight oil with this wonderful creation. Revisiting favorite oldies with it is a bliss of rediscoveries.. ❤️


----------



## paradoxper

Speedy recovery buddy! Sulk in style.


----------



## goldwerger

paradoxper said:


> Speedy recovery buddy! Sulk in style.


thanks!... working hard on both.. 😉


----------



## normie610

goldwerger said:


> _A cross-post from the Caldera thread which may be relevant here regarding chaining the amps. I used a pre-ordered custom cable, connecting the Nirvana Headphone XLR out to  the RCA-3 dual RCA inetrconnect inputs. The Nirvana is a very clean preamp and great preamp in this setup. Also, its Nirvana remote which drives its volume too quickly in direct use, works perfect in this chained setup.
> _
> 
> 
> ...


You’re using the XLR headphone output so that you’re able to use the Nirvana remote, correct?


----------



## goldwerger (Yesterday at 3:49 AM)

normie610 said:


> You’re using the XLR headphone output so that you’re able to use the Nirvana remote, correct?


Exactly. I’m using the headphone out to deliver preemptive  application,, using both the Auris  remote, which works great in the set up, as well as any tube rolling choices that I may have, which could impact some small level of  the sound quality. The CFA-3 imports the biggest impact on the essential song quality, offering its powerful solid-state, bright and clear amplification. The synergy between the two of them seem to complement each other and work well. The Auris sonic value added is small, but it is notable, and offeras real finctiolanioity in
Volume control and tube tuning..


----------



## normie610

goldwerger said:


> Exactly. I’m using the headphone out to deliver preemptive  application,, using both the Auris  remote, which works great in the set up, as well as any tube rolling choices that I may have, which could impact some small level of  the sound quality. The CFA-3 imports the biggest impact on the essential song quality, offering its powerful solid-state, bright and clear amplification. The synergy between the two of them seem to complement each other and work well. The Auris sonic value added is small, but it is notable, and offeras real finctiolanioity in
> Volume control and tube tuning..


Got it. And get well soon!


----------



## goldwerger

normie610 said:


> Got it. And get well soon!


With the healing power of music 🙏😊


----------



## rsbrsvp

I was wondering if fellow head-fiers could solve this issue for me. On my DAC, the left and right output channels are on the left and right sides if facing the dac from the front. On the CFA-3 the L and R markings are on the left and right when I face the unit from the back.

So- when connecting the interconnects from the dac to the amplifier- do I connect the L to L and R to R even though they are in opposite locations (inverted) in the two pieces of equipment? I have tried both ways- and to my surprise it sounds different. I guess this is because the phase is switched.

I asked this to Dukei as well and awaiting his response, but  I would appreciate any input from the thread as well.


----------



## migo

rsbrsvp said:


> I was wondering if fellow head-fiers could solve this issue for me. On my DAC, the left and right output channels are on the left and right sides if facing the dac from the front. On the CFA-3 the L and R markings are on the left and right when I face the unit from the back.
> 
> So- when connecting the interconnects from the dac to the amplifier- do I connect the L to L and R to R even though they are in opposite locations (inverted) in the two pieces of equipment? I have tried both ways- and to my surprise it sounds different. I guess this is because the phase is switched.
> 
> I asked this to Dukei as well and awaiting his response, but  I would appreciate any input from the thread as well.


 Internal connection of XLR connector is the same, so you are only swapping Left channel for Right when not connected properly.


----------



## goldwerger

rsbrsvp said:


> do I connect the L to L and R to R even though they are in opposite locations



Yes!

Both conventions are, some with unconventionality, in existence. Always rely on what is marked behind as being correct because it could be arranged in one of those two ways. Just following the letters. It won’t feel physically symmetrical, but it will be sonically accurate.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Thanks to everyone.  It does sound different when L is connected to Ro and R to L.   I think this is called phase inversion.   Not sure-- but I wanted to get it right...

Thanks you...


----------



## migo

rsbrsvp said:


> Thanks to everyone.  It does sound different when L is connected to Ro and R to L.   I think this is called phase inversion.   Not sure-- but I wanted to get it right...
> 
> Thanks you...


Not really... phase inversion is when you connect opposite way + and - on one side of one of those cables, or speakers/headphones. 

But this could be called channel inversion in your case.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Whatever it is called-   it really sounds different.  Can explain why.


----------



## migo

rsbrsvp said:


> Whatever it is called-   it really sounds different.  Can explain why.


 yes, but when you change left connection on your headphones for right it should sound the same again. ) If it possible to swap each other cable connections on your HP.


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## rsbrsvp

migo said:


> yes, but when you change left connection on your headphones for right it should sound the same again. ) If it possible to swap each other cable connections on your HP.


got it..


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## rsbrsvp

Here is a copy/paste of Dukeis reply.  Is he saying the same thing as we are?  I'm not sure.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Steven,

I build and connect according to the labels/markings on the unit. If it says Left input then that channel would correspond to left on the XLR output as well. You can verify this by not connecting Left and letting the amp play. Only the right headphone driver would produce sound.

I don't know how other manufacturers do it without any markings or labels. I would guess that the left channel is the left connector when facing it (looking at it). That makes natural sense to me but I could be wrong. Check the manual of the manufacturer to be sure or you could also play a left/right stereo test track to find out.

You can swap the left and right channels without having phase inversion. Pin 2 is V+ and pin 3 is V- on the XLR connector. You can not get phase inversion unless those two pins are swapped, which they are not.

Hope that helps.
Miroslav


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## migo

rsbrsvp said:


> Here is a copy/paste of Dukeis reply.  Is he saying the same thing as we are?  I'm not sure.
> __________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Hi Steven,
> ...


Yes, the same with addition how you can test if it is connected the right way. Connect only left side to L on CFA3 and sound should come only form left side of HP...  when not, connect it opposite way.


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## normie610

rsbrsvp said:


> Is he saying the same thing as we are?


The same


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## goldwerger

rsbrsvp said:


> Here is a copy/paste of Dukeis reply.  Is he saying the same thing as we are?  I'm not sure.
> __________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Hi Steven,
> ...


yes, same

it's super simple really, just follow the L and R letters on every device consistently (wherever they may be located in the back of any device)


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