# NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!!



## LFF

Well...the cat is out of the bag!!
  
 Quote from Purrin: 





> So what is the Vali? It is their new TOTL hybrid amp which was kept secret for past nine months of development? It may as well be. It is in fact a tiny little hybrid, running miniature triodes tube for the gain stage and a solid-state output stage (I presume similar to the Magni's). How does it sound?
> 
> Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Holy Schiit fantastic. This is tubes done right. We are talking about expansive soundstage, tube clarity, tube microdynamics, tube microdetail, tube dynamics and slam. (Yes, all the things which folks who haven't heard good tube amps don't think tubes sound like.) The first time I heard this, I almost pee'd in my pants. An amp this cheap shouldn't sound this good.


 
  
 The initial review is that it's "the best amp under $1650.00!!!" from another old member I really trust.  The best thing is...it's only $120.00!!!!
  
 It's definitely nice to see a company push the envelope in terms of performance AND price. Hat's off the people at Schiit. This is definitely going on my list of
 "New Things To Try"!
  
 Anyone else have any impressions or demo units?!


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## shipsupt

I was just reading the release about this thing!  Looks VERY promising!  Insert Schitt joke here!  
  
 The few guys I know who heard it say it's something special.


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## LFF

shipsupt said:


> I was just reading the release about this thing!  Looks VERY promising!  Insert Schitt joke here!
> 
> The few guys I know who heard it say it's something special.


 
  
 Same here. From everything I read, it looks to be extremely promising, especially because the people who are raving about it actually have good ears. Might have to drive on down to Purrin's place to listen to it soon.


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## LFF

Jude...any input on this amp?
  
 Does anyone know if Mike Mercer has one for review?


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## zerodeefex

lff said:


> Jude...any input on this amp?
> 
> Does anyone know if Mike Mercer has one for review?


 
  
 I'm guessing we'll be hearing from them and the other usual suspects! I'm really excited to hear impressions.


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## moriez

lff said:


> The initial review is that it's "the best amp under $1650.00!!!" from another old member I really trust.  The best thing is...it's only $120.00!!!!


 
  
 Ehm, how about that!?


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## shipsupt

I have not had a chance to watch the new full movie length RMAF video release from Jude, but I'm sure it must be mentioned in there?


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## LFF

shipsupt said:


> I have not had a chance to watch the new full movie length RMAF video release from Jude, I'm sure it was mentioned in there?


 

 I don't think it was....


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## zerodeefex

lff said:


> I don't think it was....


 
  
 I'm guessing it might have been since it was almost an hour long. Has anyone watched the whole thing?


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## Jmstrmbn

Watched the whole video, no mention of any new Schiit products.


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## blueangel2323

Can't wait 'til more impressions and reviews start rolling in!


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## TMRaven

I just expected this to be kept under wraps until RMAF, but LFF broke the news to the masses just now!


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## Radio_head

I've heard this new amp is hyper-realistic, to the point where it actually makes listening to music uncomfortable to many listeners.  This affect is being termed as "The Uncanny Vali" by some early beta testers.  Any word on this effect?


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## TMRaven

It's an exciting little Schiit!


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## burnspbesq

I'm not a tube guy, but this is very very interesting.

Any word on whether there will be one at the SD meet?


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## LFF

burnspbesq said:


> I'm not a tube guy, but this is very very interesting.
> 
> Any word on whether there will be one at the SD meet?


 

 I'll try to get a hold of one for sure.


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## shipsupt

This is tubes for the non-tube guys.  No rolling involved!
  
 Quote:


burnspbesq said:


> I'm not a tube guy, but this is very very interesting.
> 
> Any word on whether there will be one at the SD meet?


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## jude

I didn't have clearance at the time of shooting the video to go live with the info, which was a challenge to not talk about, since there's a prototype here.

I just arrived in Denver, and I'm slammed at the moment, but will say more later.


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## ultrabike

Quote:


lff said:


> burnspbesq said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not a tube guy, but this is very very interesting.
> ...


 






 
  
 Very interested in checking these out.


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## DairyProduce

can't wait for more info!


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## gelocks

shipsupt said:


> This is tubes for the non-tube guys.  No rolling involved!


 
  
 This I like... and the price I like even more!!
 Now the question is, should it replace my Magni at work?!?! 
 We'll see...


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## kvtaco17

Ermahgerd awesome! Destined to be the best lil tube amp evah!


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## DairyProduce

guessing it'll be at the RMAF anyways, so I don't think it matters that much.


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## lord_tris

jmstrmbn said:


> Watched the whole video, no mention of any new Schiit products.



I thought that Jude mentioned the Loki (dsd dac) for a brief second

Also very interested in this as small desktop solution as well. maybe after I get my Mjolnir


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## DigitalFreak

Subscribed and awaiting further findings. Nice job posting this on here LFF.


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## Argybargy




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## Insidious Meme

Reading up on this.. this should be a fun ride. Hype and all.


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## Questhate

insidious meme said:


> Reading up on this.. this should be a fun ride. Hype and all.


 
  
 The fact that Team Anti-Hype is hyping this means it must be something special.


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## CEE TEE

I want to give Schiit a little stack o' cash this Friday.  But, I hear that they should be available in about three weeks...definitely in!!!


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## purrin

insidious meme said:


> Reading up on this.. this should be a fun ride. Hype and all.


 
  
 Heh, you know me. You asked me about how I liked Fuju X100, and I bitched that all the people hyping it neglected to mention some of its serious drawbacks. And we laughed at that.
  
 The Vali is a no brainer at the price. I think someone else mentioned this is the best amp under $1600 or whatever. With the current headphones I have, I feel the same way, at least with what I know is available today at this very minute. Paired with with a good DAC, the Vali just sucks you in. I mean, I should be wrapping up on some company work right now, but I find myself so distracted listening to various headphones. And this is from someone who has pretty much sworn off headphones in favor of speakers.
  
 I'll let people decide for themselves when the Vali is available in a few weeks.


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## peter123

Subscribed, really looking forward to this one.


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## olor1n

questhate said:


> insidious meme said:
> 
> 
> > Reading up on this.. this should be a fun ride. Hype and all.
> ...


 
  
 Could also be a cynical parody. Hyping up a truly Schiit component for the masses to blindly lap up.
  
  


Spoiler


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## M-13

Just found this thread. Holy Schiit! Give me that tube goodness!


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## Darknet

Damn I was almost deadset on a dx50 for my Christmas spending, but now this.... I don't even need it as much as the dx50 but it still seems so awesome.


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## M-13

How is the Vali with the HD800? Do we finally have a cheap solution for this picky guy? How is it with the LCD-2/HE-500?
  
 Edit:
  
 Just to answer my question: (Found this impression from Purrin)
  
 "With Paradox, HE-400, HE-500, HD800, it's GREAT."
  
 Cool world exclusive by the way.


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## DADDYDC650

I was just about to purchase a headphone amp for the HE-500 until I saw this thread. Is the Vali fully compatible with the HE-500 out of the box? No modded cables and tube rolling? I just want something that works and works well.


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## proid

A 120$ amp that is "the best amp under $1650.00!!!"? A new hype of the year, lol
 Schiit must be deaf to price it at only 120$, if it's that good this amp will completely destroy all of schiit products. No one will ever care about Lyr, Asgard, Valhalla because they are more expansive and sound not as good as Vali. Schiit will be able to sell very very many of these Vali but no more Lyr, Asgard, Valhalla. If the Vali is that incredible good and Schiit guys are smart, they will give it a better enclosure, power and price it at more resonable price. A company should price their product by its performance and build quality, judge by the price 120$ i think the Vali will sound better than a Magni and can be as good as a Asgard.


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## wewewho77

Subscribed


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## AHorseNamedJeff

I may be getting a custom made tube amp similar to a WA6 for Christmas but this... this has indeed caught my fancy. Where's the preorder


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## tdockweiler

I'm going to buy this. I always liked the Magni so if this is a little warmer than that's a plus.
 $120 is portable amp territory and it's American made. That's a good enough reason for me.
  
 I must be the only person here who prefers their budget amps. Still looking for a good amp under $150 for the bedroom..maybe this will be it.


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## Jason Stoddard

Hey all, yep, Vali is coming. A real production version of Vali will be at RMAF, together with the Ragnarok prototype. I expect we'll ship about 3 weeks after that. The ordering page with complete information will go up when we're ready to ship.
  
 Jude, Purrin, and a handful of other early listeners had hand-built "production qualifiers" to help us confirm what we were hearing, and to make sure everything was ready for production. While we've also had a few early prototypes running 24/7 for the past 6 months to help confirm tube durability, we also wanted to do a beta test, so to speak.
  
 So are we deaf for pricing it at $119? Sure, maybe. You guys know us. We're not going to tell you "you'll see god without drugs" when you listen to our stuff, nor are we going to say "of course if you spend more, you get more." Because you don't. Not always. It depends on your cans, and what your own sonic preferences are. Fully half the email responses from Schiit are something like, "We never comment on competitive products," or "We do not speculate on perceived sonic differences." Maybe we should be waving the banner as hard as a used-car salesman. But we don't do the hard sell, nor do we price things at any more than we have to, regardless of what they sound like.
  
 As to how Vali happened...it was a lark, like a lot of our projects. I have a pile of dead product ideas on my shelves that will never see the light of day, because we're always trying something new and interesting. And it doesn't always work out. A lot of these projects get to fairly finished form. Some of them have to take a few twists and turns, but eventually make it. But if it doesn't sound good, or if it's an answer to a question nobody is asking, it gets shelved.
  
 When Vali started, it was one of those what-if projects. It could have gone nowhere. But we heard it and liked it, so we started production planning. For the tech-heads out there, Vali uses 6088 pencil tubes, triode-strapped, with a discrete Class AB follower afterwards. It won't win any awards for low distortion or noise, and the output impedance is a highish 8 ohms. But it is a serious tube amp. The 6088s are run on 60V rails, which is great for a tube with a maximum plate voltage rating of 67.5V. All supplies are regulated, including the HV supply, the output stage rail, and the heater. Yes, this thing has DC heaters. It uses the same wall-wart as Magni, with a voltage quadrupler to get the rail voltages we need. 
  
 So, downsides? Sure.
  
 I mentioned the higher distortion, noise, and output impedance. Vali isn't a great amp for IEMs.
  
 Also, microphonics. These little tubes may sound great, but if you rap on the chassis (or even plug in some headphones), the tubes will ring for a while before they settle down. The solution? Long listening sessions, not on a paint shaker table.
  
 And, finally, no rolling. The tubes are soldered in the board, with a 1-year warranty. Expected lifespan is in the 15-20K hour range, so they should last much, much longer than that. Even listening 4 hours of listening a day, every day, that's almost 10 years at 15,000 hours. 
  
 So there you go. Vali. Coming soon. I hope you like it!


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## blueangel2323

Too much geek speak for my poor artsy brain. What on earth is a DC heater? I'll just wait for the plain-English sound impressions


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## wewewho77

Sweeet Schiit indeed. Can't wait to order one!


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## nehcrow

240V version available when shipping starts?
 I'd like one but located in Aus though


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## purrin

m-13 said:


> How is the Vali with the HD800? Do we finally have a cheap solution for this picky guy? How is it with the LCD-2/HE-500?
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't like the HD800 in stock form from any amp. Too bright with a hard glare with popular and rock music. However, the Vali is excellent with Anax 2.0 mod HD800s. I was listening to it for several hours on the HE-400 with Jerg pads last night. Works great with HE-500 too, but see below for additional comments.
  


daddydc650 said:


> I was just about to purchase a headphone amp for the HE-500 until I saw this thread. Is the Vali fully compatible with the HE-500 out of the box? No modded cables and tube rolling? I just want something that works and works well.


 
  
 Yes. You can't roll tubes, but the tubes will probably last the life of the amp. With the HE-500, the Vali vs. Mjolnir is a toss-up. The Mjolnir has much more slam, low-end extension, and precise grip on the driver. (The Asgard 2 is kind of in between). The Vali is clearer, more able to reproduce those tiny instantaneous dynamic swings which bring an immediacy and realism to the recording. I probably most prefer the HE-500 driven from an old Crest CA-2 pro power amp I happen to have lying around.
  


proid said:


> A 120$ amp that is "the best amp under $1650.00!!!"? A new hype of the year, lol
> Schiit must be deaf to price it at only 120$, if it's that good this amp will completely destroy all of schiit products. No one will ever care about Lyr, Asgard, Valhalla because they are more expansive and sound not as good as Vali. Schiit will be able to sell very very many of these Vali but no more Lyr, Asgard, Valhalla. If the Vali is that incredible good and Schiit guys are smart, they will give it a better enclosure, power and price it at more resonable price. A company should price their product by its performance and build quality, judge by the price 120$ i think the Vali will sound better than a Magni and can be as good as a Asgard.


 
  
 You do realize there is now an Asgard 2, which sounds nothing like the original Asgard, and in certain sonic attributes, is superior to even the older Mjolnir. The Bifrost uber > original Bifrost. There's the Ragnarok amp now too. Given the nature of the hi-fi business, I doubt Schiit can afford to rest on their laurels and survive as a company by keeping all their schiit the same or rehashing the same schiit over again.
  
 There are certain things the Asgard 2 does better than the Vali and vice versa. I happen to know the person who made that statement and I know his sonic priorities. To him, that statement is certainly not hype or BS. If his Eddie Current Super 7 blew up, I have no doubt in my mind that he would resort to the Vali. The fact is, there is a lot of mediocre performing stuff from under $2K.
  
 That being said, the Vali does have limitations. It has a higher noise floor which may not go well with very sensitive cans (Grado, Audio Technica, etc.) or IEMs. The output impedance is a little high @ ~8 ohms, which could be a good thing (HD800s) or bad thing (UERM). The tubes in it are extremely microphonic. Every time you switch headphones, you will hear a little ringing which may take up to a minute to decay and fully stop.
  


tdockweiler said:


> I'm going to buy this. I always liked the Magni so if this is a little warmer than that's a plus.
> $120 is portable amp territory and it's American made. That's a good enough reason for me.
> 
> I must be the only person here who prefers their budget amps. Still looking for a good amp under $150 for the bedroom..maybe this will be it.


 
  
 I don't know which Magni version you heard, but the early Magni I heard was a bit splashy in the treble at higher SPL. The Vali has a more warmth and bloom in the upper bass, lower mids. The treble volume is about the same, but it's way smoother, better quality. No glare, no hardness, no splashy, no steely, no stridency, no roughness, etc., but at the same time incredible separation and layering. We are talking about tube treble here.


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## AHorseNamedJeff

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all, yep, Vali is coming. A real production version of Vali will be at RMAF, together with the Ragnarok prototype. I expect we'll ship about 3 weeks after that. The ordering page with complete information will go up when we're ready to ship.
> 
> Jude, Purrin, and a handful of other early listeners had hand-built "production qualifiers" to help us confirm what we were hearing, and to make sure everything was ready for production. While we've also had a few early prototypes running 24/7 for the past 6 months to help confirm tube durability, we also wanted to do a beta test, so to speak.
> 
> ...



Hnnnggggg. Oh yes pleaaaase. Now to look for ways to eliminate the microphonics issues. I WILL be purchasing one and a modi as soon as the order page is put up. Probably some PYST cables to complete the schiity package. 

If the tubes do die out outside of the warrantee time, is it possible to send the Vali in to get it serviced?


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## wewewho77

Does anybody have some pictures of this baby? Perhaps a teaser from the manufacturer?


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## purrin

jason stoddard said:


> So are we deaf for pricing it at $119? Sure, maybe. You guys know us. We're not going to tell you "you'll see god without drugs" when you listen to our stuff


 
  
 I did late last night and in the early morning - several times. Woke up with headphones on and with drool everywhere.


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## BournePerfect

Marv-how's it compare to, say the S7, with the HD800?
  
 -Daniel
  
 edit: Is there a way to get on a preorder list yet-or just wait til the official page is up??


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## purrin

No, it doesn't beat the S7. LOL. Ask the banned member who cannot be mentioned. You know who he is.
  
 And I was on a self prescribed cocktail of steroids, NSAIDs, and acetaminophen last night.


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## Jason Stoddard

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> If the tubes do die out outside of the warrantee time, is it possible to send the Vali in to get it serviced?


 
  
 Yep, of course, and very inexpensively.


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## blueangel2323

I wonder what the reasons were for choosing such a microphonic tube. Are there not equally good sounding tubes that don't have that problem, at the same cost?


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## Jason Stoddard

blueangel2323 said:


> I wonder what the reasons were for choosing such a microphonic tube. Are there not equally good sounding tubes that don't have that problem, at the same cost?


 
  
 If there were, we would have used them.


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## Jd007

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, of course, and very inexpensively.




But why not just use a tube socket and let people buy spare tubes? If you are worried that people will try to tube roll and break the amp just make the tubes not easily removed (eg have to open chassis) and put some fat warnings on the box or something. That way tubes are still user replaceable (without soldering gear/skill).

I say this because I know that for a budget amp like this, a lot of people will be using it on their computers, so your estimate of 4 hours a day is grossly underestimated. I myself use my headphones ~6-8 hours a day on my computer and I'm not even that crazy of a user. This way the tubes will die out very quickly and having spare tubes to replace on hand would be great. Plus for people out of the US the cost of shipping might be half of the amp to get new tubes out in.

Anyway just an idea. Looking forward to the amp!


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## Headzone

jd007 said:


> But why not just use a tube socket and let people buy spare tubes? If you are worried that people will try to tube roll and break the amp just make the tubes not easily removed (eg have to open chassis) and put some fat warnings on the box or something. That way tubes are still user replaceable (without soldering gear/skill).
> 
> I say this because I know that for a budget amp like this, a lot of people will be using it on their computers, so your estimate of 4 hours a day is grossly underestimated. I myself use my headphones ~6-8 hours a day on my computer and I'm not even that crazy of a user. This way the tubes will die out very quickly and having spare tubes to replace on hand would be great. Plus for people out of the US the cost of shipping might be half of the amp to get new tubes out in.
> 
> Anyway just an idea. Looking forward to the amp!


 
 When the tubes die, people have to buy another Vali. That's business.


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## BournePerfect

purrin said:


> No, it doesn't beat the S7. LOL. Ask the banned member who cannot be mentioned. You know who he is.
> 
> And I was on a self prescribed cocktail of steroids, NSAIDs, and acetaminophen last night.


 
  
 Just checking.  And yeah the 'best under $1650' was probably aimed right at the S7 lol. So really-how/when can we order?
  
 -Daniel


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## Insidious Meme

Schitt already have amps where you can tube roll. It makes zero sense for them to cannibalize that market.


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## Radio_head

headzone said:


> When the tubes die, people have to buy another Vali. That's business.


 
 Jason just said they could service the amp when the tubes die, outside of warranty.  Meaning they would not have to buy another.


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## blueangel2323

I don't know much (or anything, really) about tubes, but according to pictures of the 6088 I found on Google it comes in hardwired versions only.


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## Questhate

And really, even at 8 hours per day, that's about 5 years of usage for your $120 investment.


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## BournePerfect

At this price point-I'd personally consider it a disposable amp. Not a lot of room for nitpicking at this pricepoint-especially if it's sonics live up to the billing. Or 5-10x the billing I should say.
  
 -Daniel


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## gelocks

purrin said:


> No, it doesn't beat the S7. LOL. Ask the banned member who cannot be mentioned. You know who he is.
> 
> And I was on a self prescribed cocktail of steroids, NSAIDs, and acetaminophen last night.


 
  
 Then everything that you said about the Vali is a product of your drugged-out-of-this-world mind?!?! tsk tsk tsk...


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## ninjapirate9901

I wonder how these will stack up against the cheaper offerings from Garage1217 (well considering the price I may just have to find out myself).


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## soundeffect

For most, keeping a $120 amp for 5 years is a long time. By then, you will either sell and upgrade to something else or keep and store without use and upgrade to something else. This is headfi, we cycle through stuff like a buffet.


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## AHorseNamedJeff

jason stoddard said:


> ahorsenamedjeff said:
> 
> 
> > If the tubes do die out outside of the warrantee time, is it possible to send the Vali in to get it serviced?
> ...




Just how inexpensive we talkin' Jason?h34r:


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## FraGGleR

purrin said:


> Heh, you know me. You asked me about how I liked Fuju X100, and I bitched that all the people hyping it neglected to mention some of its serious drawbacks. And we laughed at that.
> 
> The Vali is a no brainer at the price. I think someone else mentioned this is the best amp under $1600 or whatever. With the current headphones I have, I feel the same way, at least with what I know is available today at this very minute. Paired with with a good DAC, the Vali just sucks you in. I mean, I should be wrapping up on some company work right now, but I find myself so distracted listening to various headphones. And this is from someone who has pretty much sworn off headphones in favor of speakers.
> 
> I'll let people decide for themselves when the Vali is available in a few weeks.


 
 Thanks for all of the impressions, Purrin.  When you say good DAC, what are we talking about here?  Would something on the line of the matching Modi work well?  Bifrost?  Concero?  If I need a PWD Mk II for it to sound its best, I might have to pass


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## Taowolf51

Anyone happen to try these with a D7000? It's a more sensitive headphone, which probably wouldn't be the best match, but I'm still curious.
  
 If it isn't a good match, I may still try one out as a preamp and see if I like it.


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## jjsoviet

purrin said:


> I don't like the HD800 in stock form from any amp. Too bright with a hard glare with popular and rock music. However, the Vali is excellent with Anax 2.0 mod HD800s. I was listening to it for several hours on the HE-400 with Jerg pads last night. Works great with HE-500 too, but see below for additional comments.
> 
> 
> Yes. You can't roll tubes, but the tubes will probably last the life of the amp. With the HE-500, the Vali vs. Mjolnir is a toss-up. The Mjolnir has much more slam, low-end extension, and precise grip on the driver. (The Asgard 2 is kind of in between). The Vali is clearer, more able to reproduce those tiny instantaneous dynamic swings which bring an immediacy and realism to the recording. I probably most prefer the HE-500 driven from an old Crest CA-2 pro power amp I happen to have lying around.
> ...


 
  
 I'm interested in the differences between the Asgard 2 and the Vali, since the latter looks to be a solid amp. In what ways one is better than the other?


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## kenshinhimura

would these power efficient 8 ohm speakers?


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## NZheadcase

For $119, it is a definite must try. Just to see if it does live up to the hype.


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## Headzone

Are there any technical specs out yet? Other than 8ohm output impedance, and subjective opinion that it has only a "decent" SNR.
  
 Also anyone know how much shipping would be to EU?


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## purrin

fraggler said:


> Thanks for all of the impressions, Purrin.  When you say good DAC, what are we talking about here?  Would something on the line of the matching Modi work well?  Bifrost?  Concero?  If I need a PWD Mk II for it to sound its best, I might have to pass


 
  
 Go for Modi because the stack looks nice. Go for Bifrost Uber because it's a great price point where after that diminishing returns on money spent rapidly sets in. A PWD2, AGD M7, or even an MSB Diamond wouldn't hurt.
  


jjsoviet said:


> I'm interested in the differences between the Asgard 2 and the Vali, since the latter looks to be a solid amp. In what ways one is better than the other?


 
  
 My time was limited with the Asgard 2 and no direct comparison... But, was impressed with the Asgard 2 - sounded like a mini-Mjolnir - slightly better clarity and tone, but less microdynamics, power, and slam compared to Mjolnir. (I own a Mjolnir and love it.) Asgard 2 is dead quiet, doesn't ring for 60 seconds when I insert the headphones, will play with IEMs and super-sensitive headphones, has more slam and better low-end extension to Vali. Vali (assuming you use a compatible headphone) just sucks me in and won't let me put the headphones down. Can't really use words to describe that effect. Maybe more like this: Vali = flame and me = moth? Or perhaps this: hard to turn away from a glimpse of the divine.


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## Llloyd

+1 to "basically a disposable amp" best amp under $1k+ sounds absurd, but even if it was best amp under 200$ , that's a job well done.  If the anti hype is saying nice things well then I'm just confused.  All aboard I guess


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## jjsoviet

purrin said:


> Go for Modi because the stack looks nice. Go for Bifrost Uber because it's a great price point where after that diminishing returns on money spent rapidly sets in. A PWD2, AGD M7, or even an MSB Diamond wouldn't hurt.
> 
> 
> My time was limited with the Asgard 2 and no direct comparison... But, was impressed with the Asgard 2 - sounded like a mini-Mjolnir - slightly better clarity and tone, but less microdynamics, power, and slam compared to Mjolnir. (I own a Mjolnir and love it.) Asgard 2 is dead quiet, doesn't ring for 60 seconds when I insert the headphones, will play with IEMs and super-sensitive headphones, has more slam and better low-end extension to Vali. Vali (assuming you use a compatible headphone) just sucks me in and won't let me put the headphones down. Can't really use words to describe that effect. Maybe more like this: Vali = flame and me = moth? Or perhaps this: hard to turn away from a glimpse of the divine.


 
  
 Interesting. I always did find my Asgard 2 to be neutral with great detail but I was curious how the Vali stacks up with its tubes. Glad that both amps impressed you in different ways!


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## lord_tris

Jason we need a 220 to 250 dollar dac That only has optical with pass thru optical, or two outputs so i can run two amps at the same time with no usb option (Epic schiit) to go between the modi and bifrost  is that next


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## Kamakahah

Looking forward to seeing/hearing this one. Curious to compare it to the Magni and at $120 I can't think of a reason to not try it.


----------



## Tman5293

If I had not just bought a Lyr I would be extremely interested in picking up a Vali. However, nothing beats tube rolling so I will have to pass on this one.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I know i'm gonna have to run and hide after I ask this because I'm guessing you hate the headphone but I'll ask anyways...
 Marv, in your opinion do you think the Vali could possibly pair well with my Q701? Right now I'm kind of on the fence due to finding out that although it pairs very well with the Paradox it's not a good mate with the UERM.
  
 (ducks, runs and hides)


----------



## purrin

I actually think the Q701 is pretty good. Now I did own a K701 for a few weeks and even tried burning it in for 400 hours - well that didn't do schiit. Ultimately, the K701 sound was way too much on the dry and thin side for my tastes. But the Q701 has a fuller sound than the K701. Also the K701 was driven by an old HR amp, which looking back now, probably did not help matters.
  
 The Vali should be a good match. I've heard the Q701 from a few TOTL tube head-amps with output Z in the single digits (Vali is ~8ohms) and liked it. The Vali should perform similarly.


----------



## DigitalFreak

purrin said:


> I actually think the Q701 is pretty good. Now I did own a K701 for a few weeks and even tried burning it in for 400 hours - well that didn't do schiit. Ultimately, the K701 sound was way too much on the dry and thin side for my tastes. But the Q701 has a fuller sound than the K701. Also the K701 was driven by an old HR amp, which looking back now, probably did not help matters.
> 
> The Vali should be a good match. I've heard the Q701 from a few TOTL tube head-amps with output Z in the single digits (Vali is ~8ohms) and liked it. The Vali should perform similarly.


 

 Thanks Marv, I'm gonna put the Vali on my buy list. At 120 bones I'm starting to think I can't go wrong at such a low price point.


----------



## purrin

I'll pay your restocking fee or buy the unit from you for what you paid for it if you don't like it. You cover shipping of course.


----------



## sling5s

Does it have enough power for the LCD-2?   
 Sounds like the Vali is on the bright side for a hybrid tube amp, so I'm assuming it will be a good match if it has the power to drive the LCD-2.


----------



## donunus

I wonder if these will do fine with the sony ma900. The Sony's are 12 ohms hmmm


----------



## TMRaven

I doubt it will.  The MA900 are also very sensitive on top of the very low ohm number.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are we to assume this mates better with higher impedance amps that require less current? Though judging by the planar talk, it seems that it will power planars fine...

I'm not a tube guy because I like low maintenance, and simple to use SS amps (or even better dac/amps), but the lifespan of the Vali's tubes intrigues me.

Definitely don't think it'd pair well with the MA900, which basically eliminates the Vali for me (for now), but the fact that it's stock tube only, meaning no feeling like I got cheated with cheap tubes, I like the idea of just owning the Vali...

5 years at 8 hours a day for $120... man, that's the best tube talk I've heard here in regards to lifespan. I want this out of principle. Schiit always makes me wanna trade in pieces of my body for their gear. DAMN YOU.


----------



## TMRaven

Having default tubes that are selected to sound best with the amp and can't be swapped is a plus in my book-- no having to fiddle around with finding the best tubes.  Head-Fiers have some weird fascination with tube rolling and I have no earthly idea why.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> Having default tubes that are selected to sound best with the amp and can't be swapped is a plus in my book-- no having to fiddle around with finding the best tubes.  Head-Fiers have some weird fascination with tube rolling and I have no earthly idea why.




Agreed x10000

I just like things to work at basically their best from the factory. Meaning, I'm not into modding (other than for comfort), and I prefer leaving my gear stock. If it ain't broke, I have no desire to fix it.


----------



## Tman5293

tmraven said:


> Having default tubes that are selected to sound best with the amp and can't be swapped is a plus in my book-- no having to fiddle around with finding the best tubes.  Head-Fiers have some weird fascination with tube rolling and I have no earthly idea why.


 
  
 It's because it's not about whether one set of tubes sounds better or worse than another. Being able to roll tubes means you get to fine tune how your amp sounds. Each set of tubes has its own unique sound. That way everyone has their own unique sounding amp even if they're all the same model.


----------



## TMRaven

tman5293 said:


> That way everyone has their own unique sounding amp even if they're all the same model.


 
  
 What's so important about having a unique sounding amp?  I much rather have an amp that sounds as best as it could be rather than have it sound unique-- let the amp manufacturer do all the tube rolling and R&D on their side before it comes to me so I don't have to be bothered with it.  I much rather pay x amount of money on said amp that sounds as best as it could be instead of paying x amount of money on amp and then an additional amount of money and time trying to find tubes that make it sound better to me.
  
 Sorry, tube rolling strikes me as some niche thing that's primarily birthed from a hobbiest mentality.


----------



## Tman5293

tmraven said:


> What's so important about having a unique sounding amp?  *I much rather have an amp that sounds as best as it could be rather than have it sound unique*-- let the amp manufacturer do all the tube rolling and R&D on their side before it comes to me so I don't have to be bothered with it.  I much rather pay x amount of money on said amp that sounds as best as it could be instead of paying x amount of money on amp and then an additional amount of money and time trying to find tubes that make it sound better to me.
> 
> Sorry, tube rolling strikes me as some niche thing that's primarily birthed from a hobbiest mentality.


 
  
 What sounds best to you may not sound the best to me. Everyone has their own personal sound preferences. Maybe the tubes that Schiit thinks sound the best in the Vali are not the best tubes for you. A different set of tubes can change the sound to match your personal preferences. That's the point of tube rolling. Say you spend several hundred dollars on an amp but don't quite like how it sounds once you get it. Well that's a simple fix. Just pop a new set of tubes in it and you're all set.


----------



## TMRaven

I know what I previously said was somewhat of a blanket statement, but the ironic thing I've seen is that throughout multiple tube amp threads there always seems to be some consensus on the best 2-3 sets of tubes to put in that amp, and everybody strides for them.
  
 I've tried tube rolling before with 3 sets of different tubes, and the results weren't different enough for me to consider it a worthwhile investment.  Not only did I not find it worthwhile, but I ended up spending as much money in the tubes as I did the amp.
 If I want a big change, I get a new pair of headphones or amp.  If I want a fine-tuned sound, I EQ my headphones.  If I want the 'best' sound an amp can provide, I allow the manufacturer to build the amp around the particular set of tubes they've chosen and produce amazing results.  That seems to be the case with the 120 dollar Vali and its tubes.


----------



## Lorspeaker

tman5293 said:


> What sounds best to you may not sound the best to me. Everyone has their own personal sound preferences. Maybe the tubes that Schiit thinks sound the best in the Vali are not the best tubes for you. A different set of tubes can change the sound to match your personal preferences. That's the point of tube rolling. Say you spend several hundred dollars on an amp but don't quite like how it sounds once you get it. Well that's a simple fix. Just pop a new set of tubes in it and you're all set.


 
 x10


----------



## Sweden

Wow blowing up.
 Interesting. Interesting indeed.


----------



## HiFive

Are the tubes used in the Vali current production tubes or did you buy a pile of NOS tubes? (I have no opinion on what's best, just curious.)


----------



## jbarrentine

I don't know enough about the technical side of headphones, I simply know what I like. What will the high noise floor result in for certain headphones that were mentioned like AKG (I'm assuming 7xx)? Audible hiss or what?
  
 Right now I have a simple HD598, but am looking at moving up to a T90 or even a K812.


----------



## purrin

Best to think of the Vali as a cheap amp and forget that it even uses tubes. We ain't gonna tube roll for something this small. These 6088 sub-miniature tubes don't have bases with pins to stick into sockets. They are high-reliability long-life components probably meant for Eddie Haskell's military communications equipment during the Korean War. I don't think anyone but Raytheon made them.
  
 Think of this it way: you don't roll transistors.
  
 There are other inexpensive amps you can tube roll such as the Lyr, Vahalla, WA3, Little Dot MK2, CTH, etc. You can even roll rare tubes which exceed the cost of those amps.


----------



## blueangel2323

purrin said:


> Best to think of the Vali as a cheap amp and forget that it even uses tubes. We ain't gonna tube roll for something this small. These 6088 sub-miniature tubes don't have bases with pins to stick into sockets. They are high-reliability long-life components probably meant for Eddie Haskell's military communications equipment during the Korean War. I don't think anyone but Raytheon made them.
> 
> Think of this it way: you don't roll transistors.
> 
> There are other inexpensive amps you can tube roll such as the Lyr, Vahalla, WA3, Little Dot MK2, CTH, etc. You can even roll rare tubes which exceed the cost of those amps.


 
 Yeah that's what I was saying, even though I didn't really know what I was talking about. Those tiny tubes have the long pins that are meant to be soldered, but there's no version that you can just plug into a socket.
  
 You can roll transistors... some amps let you roll op amps and such 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I prefer not being able to roll tubes, actually, if for no other reason than the fact that I don't know schiit about tubes. I'd prefer to have just one tube that I know sounds good. Too complicated to have multiple, and besides you don't know what a tube sounds like until you've heard it, and that means spending money.


----------



## Sweden

Would be interesting to see a comparison between the DNA Sonett 2, CSP2+/CSP3 and the lowly Vali with the HD800. Interesting indeed.


----------



## Sweden

With the all evolving technological progression I don't see any reason why a DAC can't have the performance of todays TOTL stuff but costing nickels and dimes in the not too distant future.
 It's an interesting time right now following the headphone and audio industry


----------



## FraGGleR

sweden said:


> With the all evolving technological progression I don't see any reason why a DAC can't have the performance of todays TOTL stuff but costing nickels and dimes in the not too distant future.
> It's an interesting time right now following the headphone and audio industry


 
  
 Many are saying that we are already in an eden where you can pay less than $100 and get DAC performance far better than what would cost $1000 just 10 years ago.  Looking strictly at the budget end, there are more and better DACs available than there were just a few years ago when I first started.  Headfi and computer based audio have exploded in the last couple years.


----------



## jbarrentine

fraggler said:


> Many are saying that we are already in an eden where you can pay less than $100 and get DAC performance far better than what would cost $1000 just 10 years ago.  Looking strictly at the budget end, there are more and better DACs available than there were just a few years ago when I first started.  Headfi and computer based audio have exploded in the last couple years.


 
  
 We're already bumping that top end to human perception where nuance is 'flavoring' the experience. There's not much tech that will come to market that's going to improve what people who already have TOTL are hearing. Products can only gain better price/performance ratios now, and Schiit seems to understand this phenomenon. Look at HD video. 4K might be nice, but it's going to be a much smaller advance than SD to HD was. We're hitting the limit there too. We're already well past the point where processor speed in a computer matters to what the average person is doing at home. It's a good time to be alive


----------



## Taowolf51

So to those who have used the Vali, how are the highs? Are they bright at all, or is there a nice rolloff?


----------



## purrin

Treble is even with the mids and extended. It definitely does not exhibit that "classic" tube amp rolloff characteristic. And I mean "classic" in a pejorative sense: rolled highs, syrupy, slow, excessively lush, bloated, etc. a.k.a. Leben. The Vali what most solid-state amps wish they can be in terms of clarity, resolution, microdynamics, but with a twist of having a touch of inner warmth and non-edgy, but very present treble. Think EC, DNA Stratus, Woo WA5, etc.


----------



## Taowolf51

Wow, that sounds excellent, I'll definitely give it a try. When do preorders start, by the way?
  
 Oh and Purrin, have you had the chance to try it as a psuedo preamp for a pair of speakers? If so, how well does it work in that regard?


----------



## jbarrentine

I had been trying to decide if I should go with the Asgard 2 or Magni, but it looks like neither is the answer.


----------



## M-13

As exciting as the Vali is, I can't wait for Schiit to take the "lessons learned" from developement and give us a Lyr 2. That would be crazy awesome.


----------



## jjsoviet

m-13 said:


> As exciting as the Vali is, I can't wait for Schiit to take the "lessons learned" from developement and give us a Lyr 2. That would be crazy awesome.


 
  
 The thought of Schiit making revamps of its existing line is very exciting. That iterative strategy would not only benefit us, but also for the company for not risking product dilution.


----------



## Lorspeaker

this would be a good gift to the younger members of my clan...tube without the fuzz. 
 ( or a bravo amp...?? )


----------



## wes008

In case anyone hasn't seen, from Part-time Audiophile:
 http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/10/11/rmaf-2013-hot-schiit/


----------



## M-13

wes008 said:


> In case anyone hasn't seen, from Part-time Audiophile:
> http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/10/11/rmaf-2013-hot-schiit/
> 
> No exposed tubes :'( but hopefully it'll be as easily disassembled as other Schiit gear, and we can roll some tubes


 
 The Vali is not tube rollable. Besides what other pencil tubes that you know are better than the one Schiit is using?


----------



## wes008

m-13 said:


> The Vali is not tube rollable. Besides what other pencil tubes that you know are better than the one Schiit is using?


 
 Ah, I didn't know they were using pencil tubes  color me stupid.


----------



## purrin

Here you go. Maybe this batch of Raytheons: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-ea-Raytheon-6088-Battery-Tubes-Excellent-Tubes-/271295626944?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f2a7abec0 Less than one hour left on the auction!
  
 I think all of the 6088s were made by Raytheon, but different batches or vintages of tubes could sound different, _we never know!_. All we would need is to match the electrical characteristics of a pair of 6088s and a soldering iron.


----------



## M-13

purrin said:


>


 
 Okay so I was wrong again...


----------



## jexby

m-13 said:


> As exciting as the Vali is, I can't wait for Schiit to take the "lessons learned" from developement and give us a Lyr 2. That would be crazy awesome.


 
  
 not that this is worth much or could be "set in stone", but I emailed Jason in late Aug before I pulled the trigger on a Lyr.
 my basic question was:  "are they any plans for a Lyr2 as I don't want to buy a tube amp now only to have new schiit render mine last generation."
 jason answer:
  "Not at the Moment".
 pulled the trigger on the Lyr, got some great tubes and I've been set since with my HE-500.
  
 Had fun talking with Jason today about the Vali at RMAF.  the Vali is one sweet, small, sublime amp at a nutso price.


----------



## blueangel2323

Is that a balanced cable coming out of it? It's huge


----------



## jexby

blueangel2323 said:


> Is that a balanced cable coming out of it? It's huge


 
  
 Nope.  single ended 1/4" jack.  adapter end may have looked large, that was a pair of LCD-2 plugged into the Vali today.


----------



## nehcrow

240 V or not?


----------



## jexby

nehcrow said:


> 240 V or not?


 
  
 Sorry, I didn't discuss voltage input options.  
 it did look like it used the same wall wart with AC transformer as the Magni ?


----------



## M-13

Step down transformers are widely available in any country and fairly cheap.


----------



## ravager

jexby said:


> Sorry, I didn't discuss voltage input options.
> it did look like it used the same wall wart with AC transformer as the Magni ?


 
 Jason said it was the same transformer as the Magni. A step down to (I think) 16 VAC


----------



## elwappo99

purrin said:


> The Vali is a no brainer at the price. I think someone else mentioned this is the best amp under $1600 or whatever. With the current headphones I have, I feel the same way, at least with what I know is available today at this very minute. Paired with with a good DAC, the Vali just sucks you in. I mean, I should be wrapping up on some company work right now, but I find myself so distracted listening to various headphones. And this is from someone who has pretty much sworn off headphones in favor of speakers.
> 
> I'll let people decide for themselves when the Vali is available in a few weeks.


 
  
 Pretty strong words here..... any chance you could comment more on Mjolnir vs Vali? I wouldn't think they would really give much of a comparison, but it sure seems like you think so. 
  
 Also those measurements...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering the differences in amps aren't as staggering as headfi as a whole makes it seem, I would trust purrin. As long as an amp isn't crap, it should hold it's own. I have no doubt the Vali is probably gonna trade blows with amps worth much more.


----------



## M-13

At $119 the risk seems minimal. I'm buying one as soon as there is a buy button to click. I'll have to practice sitting absolutely still like a stone so that I don't cause the tubes to vibrate for 60 seconds.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only thing need to be aware of is that it's not going to pair up well with sensitive Dynamics with low impedance.

That mismatch will most likely happen here, and we'll see people complaining because they didn't do their homework beforehand.


----------



## DigitalFreak

mad lust envy said:


> The only thing need to be aware of is that it's not going to pair up well with sensitive Dynamics with low impedance.
> 
> That mismatch will most likely happen here, and we'll see people complaining because they didn't do their homework beforehand.


 
 I foresee a future Vali impressions thread half full of peoples complaints involving impedance mismatch because they didn't do their homework.


----------



## FlySweep

mad lust envy said:


> The only thing need to be aware of is that it's not going to pair up well with sensitive Dynamics with low impedance.
> 
> *That mismatch will most likely happen here, and we'll see people complaining because they didn't do their homework beforehand.*


 
  
 " My Momentum sounds like crap with the Vali ..
  




  
 .. THIS AMP SUCKS !!! "


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

digitalfreak said:


> I foresee a future Vali impressions thread half full of peoples complaints involving impedance mismatch because they didn't do their homework.
> :rolleyes:




Why the sarcasm?

You wouldn't believe how many private messages I get with people asking me things that a simple forum search could answer. Like if a 600ohm Beyerdynamic would be fine for laptop use without an amp, etc.

I didn't say the thread would be half full. I mean it's bound to happen. There will be people that will buy the Vali, and try to pair it up with easy to drive portables, etc.

Or do you honestly think there won't be?


----------



## DigitalFreak

mad lust envy said:


> Why the sarcasm?
> 
> You wouldnt believe how many private messages I get with people asking me things thatba simple forum search could answer. Like if a 600ohm Beyerdynamic would be fine for laptop use without an amp, etc.
> 
> I didn't say the thread would be half full. I mean it's bound to happen. People will buy the Vali, and try to pair it up with easy to drive portables, etc.


 

 No sarcasm at all intended whatsoever. We've both been on head-fi long enough to see the slew of posts on various threads involving people complaining when the answer is they didn't do their research. It's become part of the coarse on head-fi so your statement involving messages you have gotten doesn't surprise me at all because I've also gotten them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah ok. Wasn't sure. 

Schiit has been pretty upfront and honest about their stuff, and mentioned about the higher distortion and output impedance, so people should definitely understand that they're not gonna get the best performance if they're hooking up the wrong kind of headphone to it.


----------



## Lorspeaker

flysweep said:


> " My Momentum sounds like crap with the Vali ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 hehehehe....cute.
  
 hey did u realise when the table was flipped, the amp wasnt on it.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​


----------



## veyrongatti

What about international Availability?


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

So this is a no for Grados? Because my Grados pair quite well with a Magni...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> So this is a no for Grados? Because my Grados pair quite well with a Magni...



As if on cue...

The Vali doesn't pair up well with highly sensitive, low impedance headphones like Grados.

The Vali =/= Magni, so if you need something for your Grados, stick to the Magni?

The Vali has a higher distortion and output impedance... not suited for those cans.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

Haha thanks 
I just wanted to make EXTRA sure before I went and purchased it. Better now than later.


----------



## doublea71

mad lust envy said:


> As if on cue...
> 
> The Vali doesn't pair up well with highly sensitive, low impedance headphones like Grados.
> 
> ...


 

 How about a Mad Dog? 50 Ohms, planar, etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Planars don't behave like dynamics in terms of dealing with output impedance and such. It's already been mentioned it does well with the HE400 and HE500, so I'm sure the T50RP mods are the same...


----------



## doublea71

mad lust envy said:


> Planars don't behave like dynamics in terms of dealing with output impedance and such. It's already been mentioned a few times on this very thread that it does quite well with planars...


 

 Sounds good to me - I did see that comment earlier, but I wanted to be a bit more certain. Thanks for the speedy reply.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm going off the same thing you're reading. Just bringing up what's already been mentioned. I didn't know about the Vali until earlier.


----------



## wes008

mad lust envy said:


> The only thing need to be aware of is that it's not going to pair up well with sensitive Dynamics with low impedance.


 
 Yeah, that's the only thing keeping me from scooping one up :/ Perhaps when I get those Alpha Dogs...


----------



## FraGGleR

wes008 said:


> Yeah, that's the only thing keeping me from scooping one up :/ Perhaps when I get those Alpha Dogs...


 
  
 For everyone worried, the whole baby Schiit stack could be had for right at $300 and cover all of your headphones, and by most reports, do a very good job with them.  Not TOTL performance, but apparently good enough that many won't need to bother with even mid-fi level equipment.  Added bonus that it would look very nice and neat all stacked together.


----------



## Taowolf51

mad lust envy said:


> Why the sarcasm?
> 
> You wouldn't believe how many private messages I get with people asking me things that a simple forum search could answer. Like if a 600ohm Beyerdynamic would be fine for laptop use without an amp, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's why I kinda feel like an idiot thinking about using these with my D7000's. The thing is, the Denons don't seem to act like most low impedance cans. The class favorite amp has a 5 ohm output impedance (M-Stage), the second favorite is the headphone output of vintage integrateds (probably higher output impedance and distortion levels than the Vali), and the new thing that looks like it may catch on soon is hooking them straight to speaker taps like an ortho! It's madness!


----------



## wes008

fraggler said:


> For everyone worried, the whole baby Schiit stack could be had for right at $300 and cover all of your headphones, and by most reports, do a very good job with them.  Not TOTL performance, but apparently good enough that many won't need to bother with even mid-fi level equipment.  Added bonus that it would look very nice and neat all stacked together.


 
 Counting the Magni or the Loki? I used to have the Magni/Modi, and while on their own they are fantastic, combined they'll destroy sensitive, low-impedance dynamic headphones  it's cause of the Magni's gain, and the Modi's output is so loud. I'll wait for the spec sheet on the Vali, but I'd imagine it has the same 5x gain that the Magni.


----------



## FraGGleR

taowolf51 said:


> That's why I kinda feel like an idiot thinking about using these with my D7000's. The thing is, the Denons don't seem to act like most low impedance cans. The class favorite amp has a 5 ohm output impedance (M-Stage), the second favorite is the headphone output of vintage integrateds (probably higher output impedance and distortion levels than the Vali), and the new thing that looks like it may catch on soon is hooking them straight to speaker taps like an ortho! It's madness!


 
  
 An impedance mismatch doesn't have to sound bad, in fact many may like it.  What might be more of an issue is the hiss you could get with sensitive cans.  I know I can't stand hiss during quiet spots or in between songs, even if I can't hear it during the music.
  
 It is a pretty cheap bet, especially for the early praise from people who have heard it.  The interest is high enough already that the secondary market for these should be strong.
  
 Oh and if you did your research and still want to experiment, you aren't an idiot unless you come back and say that these suck despite that early research.


----------



## FraGGleR

wes008 said:


> Counting the Magni or the Loki? I used to have the Magni/Modi, and while on their own they are fantastic, combined they'll destroy sensitive, low-impedance dynamic headphones  it's cause of the Magni's gain, and the Modi's output is so loud. I'll wait for the spec sheet on the Vali, but I'd imagine it has the same 5x gain that the Magni.


 
 I was thinking Modi/Magni/Vali.  Heck throw in the Loki for another $150.  But I didn't know about the gain on the combo.  I had the Modi for a little and it wasnt' bad at all feeding an O2 at the time.  Now that I think about it, Schiit definitely seems to appeal to the MOAR POWAR crowd.  
  
 At any rate, a Modi/Vali stack looks to be a heck of a budget HD800 stack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I meant to mention the higher noise floor, but my mind went to output impedance first. Go figure. I liked my D7000 off the E9 over both the Lyr and NFB5, which the E9 was an impedance mismatch to the D7000 at 10ohm.

These sensitive headphones paired with the Vali's higher noise floor, will probably end up with a hissy combo.



> At any rate, a Modi/Vali stack looks to be a heck of a budget HD800 stack.





HOW DARE YOU. DON'T YOU KNOW THE HD800 IS ONLY WORTH IT IF YOU PAIR IT UP TO AMPS IN A HIGH PRICE RANGE? SHAME ON YOU. 

Don't you know people with their $1000 amps will make fun in secret for not properly driving the HD800?


----------



## wes008

fraggler said:


> At any rate, a Modi/Vali stack looks to be a heck of a budget HD800 stack.


 
 Aw yeah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And the Vali might work for me, given a quiet enough source. Perhaps this is just what I need in a vinyl rig? Believe me, I want this to be great sooo badly (I had the Magni for quite a while and loved it). But it just might not work well for Grados and V-Modas. Yeah, I need to step up my cans


----------



## RestoredSparda

Color me excited.


----------



## Tman5293

wes008 said:


> Yeah, that's the only thing keeping me from scooping one up :/ Perhaps when I get those Alpha Dogs...


 
  
 Have you heard the Alpha Dogs? They are absolutely amazing. Definitely the best set of closed back headphones I've heard to date. I got to listen to them out of Mr. Speakers' own setup and they are just fantastic. Especially for the price. If you do decide to get them you certainly won't be disappointed.


----------



## jexby

tman5293 said:


> Have you heard the Alpha Dogs? They are absolutely amazing. Definitely the best set of closed back headphones I've heard to date. I got to listen to them out of Mr. Speakers' own setup and they are just fantastic. Especially for the price. If you do decide to get them you certainly won't be disappointed.


 
  
 at the small risk of taking off Vali topic-
 I couldn't agree more about the Alpha Dogs!  was skeptical before I tried them in person at RMAF, but wow to my ears Alpha Dogs were superb in all regards.
 by comparison the Audeze XC sounded too bottom heavy and murky down there.
 but I think that was also due to XC connected to a "not great" portable amp/dac (labelled: prototype) and the Alphas were on a large Burson.
  
 Dan is ahead of his time with the 3D printing of the cups.
  
 that being said, I wished I could have tried the Alphas + Vali for sure!


----------



## kenman345

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I meant to mention the higher noise floor, but my mind went to output impedance first. Go figure. I liked my D7000 off the E9 over both the Lyr and NFB5, which the E9 was an impedance mismatch to the D7000 at 10ohm.
> 
> These sensitive headphones paired with the Vali's higher noise floor, will probably end up with a hissy combo.
> HOW DARE YOU. DON'T YOU KNOW THE HD800 IS ONLY WORTH IT IF YOU PAIR IT UP TO AMPS IN A HIGH PRICE RANGE? SHAME ON YOU.
> ...


 
 Schiit is always going down with these guys. I love my HD800's with my Lyr I just got, especially with my Tesla ECC88 tubes. The Vali seems likely to be on the list of many budget head-fiers that are getting into the more harder to drive headphones. If this thing is halfway decent with HD800's then $120 on an amp that can scale pretty well is nothing to an emerging enthusiast. I can see this at least becoming a stepping stone for those that only can afford the headphones they really want first, then replaced/upgraded to something when they have more cash to spare. 
  
 Not to speak down on an amp from Schiit Audio. I love their Schiit. I like mine quite a lot but this amp seems like an insane value that will at least garner the respect of growing collectors of headphones. I foresee it also becoming a part of many reviewers stacks as it is relatively inexpensive that many people may pick it up just to get a sense of what reviewers are hearing and better make decisions for future headphones. It is for this reason that I think the hardwired tubes is a fantastic thing. It levels the playing field for people with this amp. Everyone gets the same experience and it won't feel like a money pit where you have to have such and such VINTAGE tubes to get the right sound....and yea, the tubes cost more than this amp costs. That's no good for a budget item.


----------



## Sweden

I'm wondering if makers of tube head amps are ****ting them self now, pardon my French.


----------



## purrin

doublea71 said:


> How about a Mad Dog? 50 Ohms, planar, etc.


 
  
 Should be no problem. I was listening to the Paradox (another T50RP mod) mostly from the Vali.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I kind of wish now my MA900 wasn't so easy to drive... I'm looking for a reason to own the Vali, as a one main headphone guy with no desktop amp...

Already owned the Magni and Lyr, and was eyeing the Asgard 2 for the longest time, but then this comes along and tickles my fancy.


----------



## kupleh

subbed


----------



## TMRaven

I know planar magnetics aren't affected by output impedance so much, but I wonder how the 8ohm impedance of the Vali plays with the 22 of the new X and XC.


----------



## purrin

tmraven said:


> I know planar magnetics aren't affected by output impedance so much, but I wonder how the 8ohm impedance of the Vali plays with the 22 of the new X and XC.


 
  
 That's a good question. How will the Vali fair with headphones which teeter on the line in terms of compatibility (in terms of looking at specs.)?
  
 I had no issues with the HE-400, which has a flat impedance of 35, but 22 may be a different matter. The good thing at least for orthos is their flat impedance curvse, which means we won't get any strange frequency response changes. The most likely change, if audible, would be slower, syrupy, less controlled bass. (This was most evident on the HE-500 for me, but the HE-500 tends to have this characteristic in the first place.)
  
 I think someone mentioned the Momentums, which have a nominal impedance of 22 ohms. The good news for the Momentums is that the impedance curve is fairly uniform, the sensitivity is appropriate (I believe they are slightly less sensitive than HD600s), and 22 > 8.
  
 Anyways, I would like to reiterate the issues of noise floor (not good with Grados, at least the HF2 and SR80), the microphonic tube ringing (gotta wait up to 60 seconds for it to die down when you switch headphones), and the moderate output impedance at 8 ohms.


----------



## RMiller

mad lust envy said:


> Definitely don't think it'd pair well with the MA900, which basically eliminates the Vali for me (for now), but the fact that it's stock tube only, meaning no feeling like I got cheated with cheap tubes, I like the idea of just owning the Vali...


 
  
 To me at least MA900 don't seem to be that sensitive despite the low number, I use them with Asgard2 on high gain; will be getting Vali most likely even if it doesn't seem a good match, for 120$ what the heck


----------



## purrin

The MA900 may work. The concerns would be MA900's nominal impedance being too low, and that bump in its impedance curve at 75Hz. Which means a bass bump there.


----------



## ULTRA-HARMONICS

Tagged...


----------



## SourceGuy

Heard the modi/vali combo with LCD-2 today at RMAF and was very impressed.


----------



## AxelCloris

I love the idea behind this, but the incompatibility with the headphones I use at work is a deal breaker. Still, props to Schiit for this one.


----------



## elwappo99

purrin said:


> The MA900 may work. The concerns would be MA900's nominal impedance being too low, and that bump in its impedance curve at 75Hz. Which means a bass bump there.


 
  
 The MA900's stupid little resistor may actually be useful to have with the Vali


----------



## doublea71

purrin said:


> Should be no problem. I was listening to the Paradox (another T50RP mod) mostly from the Vali.


 
 Then it's a no-brainer. This is convenient considering my lack of brains.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

6088 is a obvious choice for a little valve headphone amp. These sub minature are battery tubes so keep PSU costs down, they are also some of the few NOS tubes available easily, cheaply in 1000s. Others include 6111. There are other wired types that are larger like some of the CVs like 4034, 4035, 4069. Raytheon were a big maker of the subminature wired tubes like 6088 however but some of the others larger wired types were made by others (UK) and US (Sylvania / PhilpsECG), Raytheon really led the sub minatured wired tubes. Great choice for headphone amps. They can be microphonic but easily damped with gromit which is why DIYs buy them, like the 5 Raytheon Purrin linked to  (I bid before his link, was worried for an hr... )


----------



## Headzone

What if you put up a resistor in series to lower headphones sensitivity? Would that make lower impedance headphones work?


----------



## LFF

I should have a Vali at the San Diego meet!


----------



## kenshinhimura

interesting amp. will it be on sale next month?


----------



## MattTCG

I don't quite understand this amp. Why and how does Schiit produce amp that seems to do so well with tough to drive hp's at a fraction of the price of amps in their own lineup.
  
 Please educate me...
  
 Is it replacing the magni? Looks just like it.


----------



## purrin

headzone said:


> What if you put up a resistor in series to lower headphones sensitivity? Would that make lower impedance headphones work?


 
  
 A resistor in series will lower damping factor (headphone impedance / amp output impedance). Since the amp output impedance is already moderately high at 8 ohms, that could make lower impedance headphones sound worse. Headphone sensitivity and headphone impedance are two different things.


----------



## TMRaven

I understand the Magni could be theoretically used for the low impedance/high sensitivity headphones that the Vali won't work well with, but the fixed gain on the Magni makes it hard to use said headphones with it, you literally get no volume pot play.


----------



## purrin

matttcg said:


> I don't quite understand this amp. Why and how does Schiit produce amp that seems to do so well with tough to drive hp's at a fraction of the price of amps in their own lineup.
> 
> Please educate me...
> 
> Is it replacing the magni? Looks just like it.


 
  
 The Vali's output impedance of 8 ohms, although somewhat high, isn't something that's horrible. Folks have opined that a damping factor (headphone impedance / amp output impedance) of at least five is preferable, but this comes down to specific headphones and personal tastes. For headphones with a flat straight impedance curve, we could probably get away with less damping factor before we are able to hear frequency response changes. Even then, the resultant changes could be pleasurable (many headphones have an impedance bump in the bass, which would cause a corresponding rise in that area if the damping factor were too low.) The UERM with the Vali was a disaster in terms of a match because the UERM's nominal impedance is 16 ohms, but its impedance curve is crazy with huge peaks in the midrange and massive roll-off in the treble.
  
 The limitation of the Vali's use of these specific tubes is the noise-floor. Noise can be heard with highly sensitive headphones such as Grados, Audio-Technicas, IEMs, etc. The Vali seems to provide a good amount of gain. With an output stage similar to the Magni (I believe the Vali has about 50% of the power of the Magni?), the Vali can put out a decent amount of volume / power. To put things in perspective, I once blew up (literally smoke and flames) the output chips of a Objective2 amp at the same level where the Magni was just showing some minor strain on the distortion analyzer. Another thing to put into perspective: The Magni can output almost the same power as the Eddie Current Balancing Act into 32 ohms.
  
 The fact is, we don't really need that much power to drive many of these headphones. That is many of these headphones are not that hard to drive. This is why I find it disturbing when I see people write "How does it do with hard to drive headphones like the LCD2?"
  
 This is not to say the extra power and higher damping factor of the bigger Schiit amps (Asgard 2, Mjolnir) don't have any effect. The bass is notably tighter and with more slam on the HE-400, HE-500, and Paradox from the Mjolnir (I tried those last night) than from the Vali.


----------



## MattTCG

Thank you kindly for the information. I just finished reading the thread but I appreciate the concise explanation none the less. So now the question for me is this, "how would the Vali do with something like the he-4? And how would that pairing look against A2 and lyr?


----------



## TMRaven

Wouldn't you say the better bass control and authority on the bigger Schiit amps is more a result of their beefier components than more total power?


----------



## purrin

Hard to say. While testing a few prototype power supplies for an EC amp in development, I noted stiffer (ones which have less voltage drop) diodes / tubes resulted in tighter and more slamming bass. On the other hand, I really like the bass performance and transient response of the HE-500 when driven by the Mjolnir, and even more from my 100 watt pro power amp.


----------



## TMRaven

My theory behind the speaker amps is they use really robust stuff in their chassis which are meant to swing huge amounts of power at a moment's notice, possibly playing really well with the bass of planar magnetics.  Have you tried the much talked about Emotiva Mini-X yet Purrin? Would be interested to get your take on that.


----------



## M-13

Yeah your Crest amp is a beast Purrin, makes the Emotiva look weak.


----------



## MattTCG

The Pioneer sx-1280 completely changed my perception of what it takes to drive planar magnetic headphones. I will never forget plugging the he-4 into the Pioneer and hearing the loud thud which turned out to be my jaw hitting the top of my desk. I reached over and knocked down the treble a notch and was in disbelief that the he-4 was able to reproduce music in such fashion. 
  
 I pretty sure that the Vali will fit in the glove box of the Pioneer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Seriously, I have some interest in the Vali. Just trying to figure out where Jason and the boys are marketing this and where it's best suited. One thing for sure, it should be a nice piece of...well, you know.


----------



## elwappo99

matttcg said:


> The Pioneer sx-1280 completely changed my perception of what it takes to drive planar magnetic headphones. I will never forget plugging the he-4 into the Pioneer and hearing the loud thud which turned out to be my jaw hitting the top of my desk. I reached over and knocked down the treble a notch and was in disbelief that the he-4 was able to reproduce music in such fashion.
> 
> I pretty sure that the Vali will fit in the glove box of the Pioneer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You always make me want to go pull out my SX-990 and hook it up again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Matt, I doubt the Vali would pair well with the HE4. The Vali seems to be doing fine with the planars that sound good off standard amps. The HE4 isn't one of those newer planars that can be driven by standard amps (remotely well). As Purrin said, the Vali has about half the power of the Magni, and the Magni isn't exactly a Lyr. You know the HE4 likes a lot of power/current. Hifiman states 2watts at it's 40 something impedance. I fed it 10 watts (SA-31) and it still was pushing that amp, as well as the Lyr. Hell, Hifiman solds the HE4 with a cable to use for speaker taps...or whatever that was.

The Vali seems more suited for higher impedance headphones.


----------



## MattTCG

Point taken. Thank you.


----------



## eke2k6

Would any of the member in possession of the Vali be willing to do quick comparisons to other good amps? I'm considering whether I should get the Vali, or just go for the A2.


----------



## CEE TEE




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the look of the mini Schiits. I actually wish they had a larger footprint, since the cables stick out so far from my desk.


----------



## donunus

Has anyone tried these with the Mad Dogs at RMAF? Also, I wonder if these add an extra special sauce to the sound of the HD600s.


----------



## papahommer

cee tee said:


>


 
 Nice!!! I just received my Magni in the mail a few days ago, now this??? 
  
 I just can't wait for somebody to do a review of this!!!


----------



## donunus

^ There are already a bunch of impressions from trustworthy individuals. What more is a review going to give you? Buy one! LOL


----------



## papahommer

donunus said:


> ^ There are already a bunch of impressions from trustworthy individuals. What more is a review going to give you? Buy one! LOL


 
 TeeHeeHee... You just read my mind... But I live in China and I can only order it online, but I notice that it is not on their website yet...


----------



## elwappo99

donunus said:


> ^ There are already a bunch of impressions from trustworthy individuals. What more is a review going to give you? Buy one! LOL


 
  
Headi-Fi: Buy now, ask questions later


----------



## Sweden

purrin said:


> Treble is even with the mids and extended. It definitely does not exhibit that "classic" tube amp rolloff characteristic. *And I mean "classic" in the best way: smooth highs, dynamic, muscular, beautifully lush tonality, great bass impact, etc. a.k.a. Leben*. The Vali what most solid-state amps wish they can be in terms of clarity, resolution, microdynamics, but with a twist of having a touch of inner warmth and non-edgy, but very present treble. Think EC, DNA Stratus, Woo WA5, etc.


 
  
 Changed that so people know what you really are saying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People need to understand something about the MA900. Removing the resistor/impedance compensator will REDUCE their resistance to their real 8ohm rating, making it even worse for the Vali. I believe it's labeled as 12ohm at default.

Lots of hate for the resistor chain, but it's there for a reason. Keeps them from wildly fluctuating with higher output impedance amps, (FWIR)

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/07/sony-mdr-ma900-in-depth-analysis.html


So, IF the MA900 doesn't sound hissy with the Vali, it can potentially be a good combo, due to that very same resistor. Without it, the frequency spikes would be made WORSE without the resistor.


----------



## UmustBKidn

jason stoddard said:


> ... When Vali started, it was one of those what-if projects. It could have gone nowhere. But we heard it and liked it, so we started production planning. For the tech-heads out there, Vali uses 6088 pencil tubes, triode-strapped, with a discrete Class AB follower afterwards. It won't win any awards for low distortion or noise, and the output impedance is a highish 8 ohms. But it is a serious tube amp. The 6088s are run on 60V rails, which is great for a tube with a maximum plate voltage rating of 67.5V. All supplies are regulated, including the HV supply, the output stage rail, and the heater. Yes, this thing has DC heaters. It uses the same wall-wart as Magni, with a voltage quadrupler to get the rail voltages we need.
> ...


 
   
I can certainly understand why you'd want an entry of this particular configuration, what with the Bravos and Indeeds so far dominating the low budget hybrid segment. What I find rather curious though, is the choice of a non-replaceable tube (especially one with demonstrated microphonics). This configuration reminds me of a kit sold on DIY audio, for about half the cost. Not that I'm necessarily making a comparison, mind you.

  
 So while I'm really glad that there are more little Schiit's on the market, I'm rather disappointed that I can't throw away my Bravo amp and replace it with a Vali. And while some may laugh at me for tube rolling a Bravo, if I find a tube with microphonics, I can throw it out and roll in another tube. So I am kind of baffled at that particular choice.
  
 Now, quite frankly, if I ever see something like the Schiit version of a Bravo V2 or Indeed G3 coming out of Newhall, I would probably be the first guy to drive over and stand in line for one. Or two of them. I would like to go tube rolling with this vast collection of 12AU7's I've amassed, LOL. But even as good as I know your products to be, good sir, I am left to wonder if there really is any point to buying one of these amplifiers. I think I might sooner save my money for a Valhalla.


----------



## M-13

With the Vali on the horizon, I'm thinking about picking up a HD650 again, or maybe a HD600 this time. Should be a nice liquid combo for those days I want to really hear tubes.


----------



## MattTCG

I have  to be honest and say that I have not been a fan of the mini Schiits. I have a good friend that lives near me and I recommended the m/m combo and MD when he first got started based on his tight budget. I wish that I hadn't. The build quality of the products are not up usual Schiit standard. He's had issues keeping the volume knob attached on several occasions. Sure I realize that you're talking about a budget product but the quality still has to be there. 
  
 I think that there is some potential build quality issues that could be part of the Vali heritage if it uses the same chasis and parts. If hope that this amp is a huge success as I'm a believer in Schiit products and gear...using the A2 and lyr right now.


----------



## TMRaven

I think you're the first person I've read to have come across build quality issues with the Magni-- literally the first.


----------



## MattTCG

Nope. Others have had issues. Go back and read the magni thread. Potentiometer issues are not that uncommon with the magni.


----------



## preproman

Alpha Dogs / Vali anyone?


----------



## MattTCG

I'd say heck yeah. Just based on impressions and specs, should be no problem. The AD was pretty darn decent off my x3 player, so I'd say yes on the Vali.


----------



## paradoxper

matttcg said:


> Nope. Others have had issues. Go back and read the magni thread. Potentiometer issues are not that uncommon with the magni.


 
 I'd only take issue with it was only a few. Who knows how many Schiit has sold but it's not a rampant QC issue.
 I thought the mini Schiit had excellent build quality for what it was.


----------



## TMRaven

I've been in that thread a couple of times. It wasn't big enough of an issue for me to notice.  I think the Magni/Modi build quality is pretty great myself.  Asides from the slightly skewed volume nob that's virtually on every Magni unit, I really love the build of these.


----------



## MattTCG

Granted in fairness, the issue doesn't seem "rampant" but....understand that when it happens to YOU, the a QC issue can leave a bad taste in your mouth regardless of whether it's not a rampant issue. Add to that it was a situation where I actually referred a product to a friend making it even worse.


----------



## Taowolf51

fraggler said:


> An impedance mismatch doesn't have to sound bad, in fact many may like it.  What might be more of an issue is the hiss you could get with sensitive cans.  I know I can't stand hiss during quiet spots or in between songs, even if I can't hear it during the music.
> 
> It is a pretty cheap bet, especially for the early praise from people who have heard it.  The interest is high enough already that the secondary market for these should be strong.
> 
> Oh and if you did your research and still want to experiment, you aren't an idiot unless you come back and say that these suck despite that early research.


 
  
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I meant to mention the higher noise floor, but my mind went to output impedance first. Go figure. I liked my D7000 off the E9 over both the Lyr and NFB5, which the E9 was an impedance mismatch to the D7000 at 10ohm.
> 
> These sensitive headphones paired with the Vali's higher noise floor, will probably end up with a hissy combo.


 
  
 That's more of a worry then. While I'm not horribly offended by a higher noise floor (my vintage amp has a pretty high noise floor), it is nice having a headphone amp with as low distortion and noise levels as the M-Stage. It may even be a worry as a psuedo preamp/tube buffer for speakers considering I'm using a 240wpc 4 ohm power amp to drive a pair of 90db/wm speakers (Thiels are known to like lots of power, and they're *very* good at letting you know if you have a noisy amp).
  
 Hopefully there will be a Vali at the Philly meet I can try out. If not, they're inexpensive enough and will have enough of a demand in the second hand market that I'm not too worried about losing much cash if it doesn't mesh well with my gear.


----------



## jwusoccer

I literally had an asgard 2 in my cart today and checked head-fi on an impulse and saw this. I'm planning on getting customs, so unfortunately the lyr has to go. I guess I'll wait and see if the vali is any good with iems.


----------



## oopeteroo

subscribed :3


----------



## TMRaven

jwusoccer said:


> I literally had an asgard 2 in my cart today and checked head-fi on an impulse and saw this. I'm planning on getting customs, so unfortunately the lyr has to go. I guess I'll wait and see if the vali is any good with iems.


 
  
 You don't want to use it with IEMs.


----------



## Gnomeplay

Yep, they already verified that it won't be a good choice for them.


----------



## tomb

umustbkidn said:


> I can certainly understand why you'd want an entry of this particular configuration, what with the Bravos and Indeeds so far dominating the low budget hybrid segment. What I find rather curious though, is the choice of a non-replaceable tube (especially one with demonstrated microphonics). This configuration reminds me of a kit sold on DIY audio, for about half the cost. Not that I'm necessarily making a comparison, mind you.
> 
> So while I'm really glad that there are more little Schiit's on the market, I'm rather disappointed that I can't throw away my Bravo amp and replace it with a Vali. And while some may laugh at me for tube rolling a Bravo, if I find a tube with microphonics, I can throw it out and roll in another tube. So I am kind of baffled at that particular choice.
> 
> Now, quite frankly, if I ever see something like the Schiit version of a Bravo V2 or Indeed G3 coming out of Newhall, I would probably be the first guy to drive over and stand in line for one. Or two of them. I would like to go tube rolling with this vast collection of 12AU7's I've amassed, LOL. But even as good as I know your products to be, good sir, I am left to wonder if there really is any point to buying one of these amplifiers. I think I might sooner save my money for a Valhalla.


 
 FOTM?
  
 I am a little bit surprised at the admission of microphonics.  Seems to me that the same thing was designed, built, and marketed by Pete Millett (currently Apex amps) a few years ago - the Millett Hybrid Portable.  When I asked Pete why he didn't make it anymore or offer its design to the DIY community, he replied that it was the tubes - he literally rejected more than he used and it got to be a diminishing returns issue with continuing the production of the amp. _ All of that was because he attempted to find sub-miniature tubes in every case that were *not* microphonic before he made an amp from them_.  From what it sounded like to me, there is nothing more microphonic than sub-miniature tubes.
  
 Now, as usual - Schiit's implementation at the price point of $119 is nothing short of unbelievable for such an amp.  However - JMHO - but the absolute gushing response from those such as purrin (supposedly a measurement freak) are a little bit beyond the typical FOTM - to say the least.  I haven't heard one and probably won't for quite some time - but anything based on admittedly microphonic tubes seems suspect in my experience with tubes.
  
 Tubes - and I love them - have inherently more distortion and noise.  Sub-miniature tubes, while attractive because of their small size, are probably questionable as the basis of a desktop amp design with their microphonics.  Microphonics go way beyond an admonishment that says, "don't bang on your desktop" or "don't tap the tubes."  The noise in a micro environment continues for many minutes beyond the first disturbance - so much so, it affects the entire frequency spectrum.  Heck, the best tube amps even use teflon tube sockets to cut down on the potential for undetected microphonics.  It might be tolerable under the right conditions (low cost, entry-level designs).  However, to imply some of the things I've read about - the best amp below $1000, pairing it with the Abyss headphones ($5000?) - are frankly, ludicrous.
  
 Again, JMHO - but the hype seems way out of proportion.
  
 Just to be clear - _the price is not out of proportion for the product as described, however_, and I commend Schiit for another extremely competitive product in the marketplace.  It should be viewed in that context, however - not beyond that.


----------



## purrin

tomb said:


> The noise in a micro environment continues for many minutes beyond the first disturbance - so much so, it affects the entire frequency spectrum.


 
  
 Um, no.
  
 Vali (two tone 500Hz and 1800Hz @ ~70db) into Paradox (T50RP mod) about 90-120 seconds after plugging in the jack.

  
 Objective 2 solid-state amp (two tone 500Hz and 1800Hz @ ~70db) into Paradox (T50RP mod)

  
 The major extraneous products at 1k, 1.3k, 2.2k, 3.6k, 6k are harmonic and intermodulation distortion, not tube microphonics. While the Vali does have a little bit higher distortion than the Objective 2 amp, there's nothing in the spectrum which would indicate the microphonic tubes affecting the entire spectrum. In fact, there's no evidence of the ringing of the microphonic tubes (which has its own specific set of frequencies.)
  
 Now that's not to say that the microphonic 6088 tubes may in some odd way provide pleasurable harmonic complexity or coloration to the sound with non-steady state signals. For example, the $750/pair KR PX4 tube is one which is also very microphonic. And that tube has a reputation of sounding harmonically rich on the $4000 ECBA's so equipped.
  
 If anything, I would say noise is more of a concern than tube microphonics, unless one liked to switch headphones or turn the amp on/off every two minutes.
  


> Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> However, to imply some of the things I've read about - the best amp below $1000, pairing it with the Abyss headphones ($5000?) - are frankly, ludicrous.


 
  
 Let's put it this way:
  

With the HE-400 and Paradox (but not necessarily the HE-500), I prefer the Vali over the $750 Mjolnir. I find the Vali more capable of transmitting the nuances (more resolving) of either of my DACs (PWD2 and M7) than the Mjolnir. Assuming the headphone in question is compatible with the Vali, I would prefer the Vali over most commercial non-DIY amps under $1k. I'd be happy to name a bunch, but I won't, unless people really want to know.
If I had $5500 to spend on an amp and an headphone, I would get the Vali and Abyss. Why? because I feel this combination would sound better than an GSXmk2 + LCD3 ($5000) or EC 2A3 w/ tubes + HD800 ($5000) or Apex Peak / Volcano + LCD3 ($4100) or Woo WA5 w/ tubes + HD800 ($5500) or Liquid Glass w/ tubes + HE6 ($5500). In such a situation, the Vali could get me by until I saved up enough money to get a better headamp. This was always my approach with speakers before I started building my own. Get the best speakers I could afford which suited my tastes, find a high value amp which could get me by, save up for a better amp. So no, I do not share your opinion that this combination is ludicrous. In fact, I find it rather sensible.


----------



## M-13

For the price of the Abyss, the Vali should be included as an accessory. Your Abyss will include: Leather Bag + Stand + Vali


----------



## shipsupt

tomb said:


> FOTM?
> 
> However - JMHO - but the absolute gushing response from those such as purrin *(supposedly a measurement freak)* are a little bit beyond the typical FOTM - to say the least.


 
  
 Total measurement freak and mega-shill!


----------



## UmustBKidn

purrin said:


> Um, no.
> ...
> Now that's not to say that the microphonic 6088 tubes may in some odd way provide pleasurable harmonic complexity or coloration to the sound with non-steady state signals. For example, the $750/pair KR PX4 tube is one which is also very microphonic. And that tube has a reputation of sounding harmonically rich on the $4000 ECBA's so equipped.
> If anything, I would say noise is more of a concern than tube microphonics, unless one liked to switch headphones or turn the amp on/off every two minutes.
> ...


 
  
 Well now, this is a curious thing ... I can't quite wrap my brain around the comparisons between a $120 amp and a $750 amp, especially when the $120 amp wins. Either that Vali is one helluva little hybrid amp, or the Mjolnir is horribly disappointing for a balanced top of the line amp. Nevermind what sort of light this puts the yet-to-be-released R&Y statement offerings in.
  
 Or maybe that pairing just Works Really Well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Honestly folks, I'm just not quite buying it. It's an inexpensive hybrid amp, LOL.
  
 Or maybe it really just validates what those of us living in Budget-Fi land already know: cheap hybrid tube amps sound pretty good, as long as you're not listening too closely.
  
 I think I like that last theory the best.


----------



## Headzone

Hmm anyone tested Vali with Sennheiser HD600? 
  
 That would make a pretty sick sub 500$? sweet sounding package.


----------



## julzd

headzone said:


> Hmm anyone tested Vali with Sennheiser HD600?
> 
> That would make a pretty sick sub 500$? sweet sounding package.


 
 im waiting for impressions of vali with the hd600 too.. seems like it will be an amazing budget match so I can't wait to try it


----------



## Erviv

Has anyone tried with the Shure 1840?


----------



## wes008

umustbkidn said:


> Well now, this is a curious thing ... I can't quite wrap my brain around the comparisons between a $120 amp and a $750 amp, especially when the $120 amp wins. Either that Vali is one helluva little hybrid amp, or the Mjolnir is horribly disappointing for a balanced top of the line amp. Nevermind what sort of light this puts the yet-to-be-released R&Y statement offerings in.
> 
> Or maybe that pairing just Works Really Well?
> 
> ...


 
 Most budget (sub $150) tube amps don't work out too well. They've got noise and crosstalk issues. This could be a breakthrough though. I trust Schiit more than anyone to come up with a solid budget tube amp. And Purrin's not saying that the Vali flat-out destroys the Mjolnir. The Mjolnir sure as heck can deliver more power than the Vali. But Purrin would rather go ahead and get his amazing headphones and save up for an adequate amp, since the Vali can probably deliver enough power into the Abyss to preserve the better half of it's sound, and the Vali is so resolving of the source.


----------



## MattTCG

How would anyone be testing this product with different hp's? I understood that it was unreleased and just made it's first appearance at the show this weekend.


----------



## MuppetFace

^ It was publicly unveiled at RMAF, but some folks have had the prototype to listen to before that point. Pretty common practice.


----------



## TMRaven

Common sense would say that Purrin has had the Vali for longer than an RMAF impression.  Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get precise measurement comparisons of it vs the Obj.2
  
 It's been making appearances long before RMAF.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, point made.


----------



## tomb

purrin said:


> Um, no.
> 
> Vali (two tone 500Hz and 1800Hz @ ~70db) into Paradox (T50RP mod) about 90-120 seconds after plugging in the jack.
> 
> ...


 
  
 With respect, how many samples is that?  Microphonics vary with the tube.  Some can pick up vibrations and reflect them tamely, others can thump a speaker cone to full excursion.  One tube might only react when you thump it with your finger directly, others start ringing when you exhale.  A few of us tube-lovers in DIY have asked questions about subminiature tubes for years, but the inherent microphonics always ended the pursuit.  Tube microphonics were always something to _avoid _- or at least begrudgingly tolerate only in certain scenarios (like they're $750/pair?).  Yet, you're going so far as to suggest that they may add to the harmony!?
  


> Quote:
> Let's put it this way:
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 See the above.  Perhaps it was wrong for me to use that "L" word.  Maybe price is also not valid as a criteria.  Yet, it was/is the strength of the recommendation that's thrown me off.  It just doesn't seem prudent.  If I had $5000 to spend on a headphone, I'd be extremely careful where I plugged it in.


----------



## tuna47

Any comparison to lyr since it beats all amps under 1,000 it should kill lyr


----------



## sling5s

Curious how was the Vali received at Canjam?  And when will it ready for pre-order?


----------



## TMRaven

Schiit doesn't do pre-orders.  They put the products up on their site when they're ready to ship, and supposedly that's in a couple of weeks.


----------



## azteca x

I will jump on the bandwagon and say for that price, how could I not find out?  Schiit's generous return policy should set everyone's mind at ease.  I will also have a Light Harmonic GEEK DAC early next year (which has a line out in addition to a HP amp).  $99 GEEK + $120 Vali = awesome budget desk setup?
 As far as microphonics, I dunno - put the Vali (or whatever the Vali is sitting on) on top of a thick piece of sorbothane?  Obviously if you touch the thing it will probably ring but how often does that need to happen?
  
 EDIT: and for anyone curious about the GEEK:
 http://mustgeekout.blogspot.com/2013/08/measuring-geek.html
 http://mustgeekout.blogspot.com/2013/09/geek-vs-others-v2.html


----------



## papahommer

Teeheehee... It would be nice if somebody can post here and let us know once Schiit is ready ship!!!

Anyway, I will be looking out for them!!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tuna47 said:


> Any comparison to lyr since it beats all amps under 1,000 it should kill lyr




What is this, I don't even...


----------



## wes008

mad lust envy said:


> tuna47 said:
> 
> 
> > Any comparison to lyr since it beats all amps under 1,000 it should kill lyr
> ...


 
 Yeah, I don't think the Lyr will be put out to pasture due to this.  Even if the Vali is that great, people are still gonna want the power and tube rolling of the Lyr. As much as it excites me to hear Purrin talk about it, he's rilled up the young'ns


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I meant such a crazy statement as the Lyr being better than all other amps under $1000.

I lol'd. I greatly preferred my SA-31 over the Lyr.


----------



## TMRaven

mad lust envy said:


> I meant such a crazy statement as the Lyr being better than all other amps under $1000.
> 
> I lol'd. I greatly preferred my SA-31 over the Lyr.


 
  
 I think you misread that statement.


----------



## 62ohm

Schiit I've just got my Schiit stack and it turns out that they are releasing a small tube amp... should have researched better before making my purchase
  
 still, I do long for a tube amp, so a small, budget Schiit tube amp seems like the way to go


----------



## leesure

Just back from CanJam and i can vouch for the impressive nature of Vali.  My initial notes with the LCD-2 is that it brings out the liquid nature of the Audeze midrange in droves.  It's warm and smooth and a real joy to listen to.  Is it the most 'accurate' amp ever?  No.  Nor is it the most 'euphonic' amp.  It strikes a nice balance that belies it's diminutive size and price.  
  
 The bass lacked the vice-like grip that the Audeze needs to really shine, but a little bit of looseness at the bottom end is forgivable, IMO.  
  
 It is rated to output 650mW at 32ohms, which might be a little light for the LCD's...and may explain the lack of the nth degree of bass control.  That's not to say the LCD-s are a bad match for Vali.  The 650mW will give you as much as 120dB...more than you ever want to pump into your ears...but I'm talking about having the headroom that the current-hungry Audeze cans might demand for the ultimate in dynamics and bass control.  
  
 I enjoyed the collective 30 minutes I spent with Vali and I look forward to listening lots more in the future.  
  
 This is an EASY purchase decision.


----------



## purrin

tomb said:


> With respect, how many samples is that?  Microphonics vary with the tube.  Some can pick up vibrations and reflect them tamely, others can thump a speaker cone to full excursion.  One tube might only react when you thump it with your finger directly, others start ringing when you exhale.  A few of us tube-lovers in DIY have asked questions about subminiature tubes for years, but the inherent microphonics always ended the pursuit.  Tube microphonics were always something to _avoid _- or at least begrudgingly tolerate only in certain scenarios (like they're $750/pair?).  Yet, you're going so far as to suggest that they may add to the harmony!?


 
  
 You seem to be shifting the argument. Your argument was that these tubes would keeping vibrating for minutes on end. I responded with evidence contrary to that.
  
 In regards to your "number of samples" counterargument: In my experience, the microphonics of a tube, while they may vary with each individual tube, are the pretty much the same among each model (with the same plate structure.) For example, the KR PX4 I mentioned before is a highly microphonic tube. You tap on the glass, you are going to hear that! The EML 45 mesh is amazingly resilient and non-microphonic. I haven't heard KR PX4s which were less microphonic than others, nor EML 45 meshes which were microphonic, unless they were defective. To my knowledge, Raytheon hasn't made versions of the CV6088 with differing plate structures.
  
 The ringing (sort of like a the ringing of bell which then decays over time) usually happens upon two scenarios: when flipping the on/off switch; and when plugging in headphones. Both of these actions physically shock the tubes more than any other action - it's the shock of the switch _snapping _from one position to another, and the phono jack _snapping _into the contacts. After this, it's extremely difficult to get the tubes to ring or even present deleterious effects for any extended (a few seconds) period of time. I could tap on the chassis, jump up and down on the floor (the kids do that for me in the house), smack on my desk, etc. Is it more sensitive than most other tube amps I've dealt with? Yes? Is it something I can live with? Absolutely for $119. Should the Vali be used as DJ's headamp at a nightclub? Probably not.
  
 While I have been enamored with the sound quality of the Vali, I've also been extremely forthright of its negatives: tube microphonics, 8 ohm output impedance (soft bass, not the best control), and noise floor (not good with IEMs, Grados, AT, etc.).
  
 Finally, I don't really know exactly what you are getting at concerning your own aborted or failed forays into sub-miniature tube DIY amps. As an MOT, you should at least have the grace to give Schiit, another MOT, the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing, considering that you don't even have the amp in your hands.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> I think you misread that statement.




Ah, you're right. But the same can be said about the Vali. That's too strong a statement...


----------



## TMRaven

Well I havn't heard the Vali or many 1000 dollar amps yet so I won't be passing judgement on whether the statement is too strong or not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If there is one thing I have learned about amps, it's that there is no such thing as the 'best' amp for every headphone. You're looking at synergy, power requirements, etc. I stand by that statement being a bit strong and hyperbolic.


----------



## JohnBal

All I know is, I want one. Do I need one? No. But I really want one.


----------



## leesure

Of course the initial comment was hyperbolic.  That said, I too found that the Vali fought well above its weight class.


----------



## sling5s

I tried the O2 Objective because of all the hype and was totally disappointed.  I mean it was technically good for the price.  But it was so dry and unmusical to me. 
 So I'm cautious at this point.  But it's hard not to get sucked in.  I respect Purrin and his ears but I also know his taste differ than mine.  So have to take that into consideration too.


----------



## FraGGleR

I love this thread.  Everything wonderful and awful about Headfi all in one.  Marvelous entertainment.  I think the amp is simply too cheap not to try it out and see for myself.


----------



## wes008

sling5s said:


> I tried the O2 Objective because of all the hype and was totally disappointed.  I mean it was technically good for the price.  But it was so dry and unmusical to me.
> So I'm cautious at this point.  But it's hard not to get sucked in.  I respect Purrin and his ears but I also know his taste differ than mine.  So have to take that into consideration too.


 
 If the O2 was too cold and dry, the Vali just might be for you. It won't be as "tubey" as other tube amps, but definitely more warm and musical the O2. (Keep in mind, this is all going off of the amp design and other's recommendation, I haven't heard the Vali yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## wes008

double post, sry


----------



## purrin

sling5s said:


> I tried the O2 Objective because of all the hype and was totally disappointed.  I mean it was technically good for the price.  But it was so dry and unmusical to me.
> So I'm cautious at this point.  But it's hard not to get sucked in.  I respect Purrin and his ears but I also know his taste differ than mine.  So have to take that into consideration too.


 
  
 Also take into consideration that I too was highly unimpressed with the O2. And I don't think the O2 is good for the price either. Maybe $49. The O2 is currently used as a measurement amplifier, which is what it should be used for, not for listening.


----------



## Fearless1

mad lust envy said:


> I meant such a crazy statement as the Lyr being better than all other amps under $1000.


 
 That is not what he said.....
  


tuna47 said:


> Any comparison to lyr since *it* beats all amps under 1,000 it should kill lyr


 
 It refers to the Vali


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know, I corrected myself soon after.


----------



## purrin

tuna47 said:


> Any comparison to lyr since it beats all amps under 1,000 it should kill lyr


 
  
 The Lyr is a great deal, there's nothing much other there at that price point, I much prefer the Lyr to many amps twice its price, and you get the advantage of being able to roll tubes. The Lyr will power some really hard to drive orthos and give them some oomph. But in absolute terms, I've never been a big fan of the Lyr. That's all I'll say and you can figure out the rest.


----------



## sling5s

purrin said:


> Also take into consideration that I too was highly unimpressed with the O2. And I don't think the O2 is good for the price either. Maybe $49. The O2 is currently used as a measurement amplifier, which is what it should be used for, not for listening.


 
 LOL.  Now you really got me interested!


----------



## gelocks

Not sure if I'll bite on it, I mean, for the price it should be an easy buy, but seeing that I usually rotate my headphones a lot when I go to work, I can't see the Vali as a viable option. Checking my usual gear:
  
 Ultrasone Signature DJ --> Impedance: 32 Ohm
 Perfect Sound Dido 901 --> Impedance: 16 ohms
 Mad Dogs --> 50-something Ohms?!?
 Alpha Dogs --> same as above!?
 Yamaha HPH-MT220 --> Impedance: 37 Ohm
 Sennheiser Momentum (on-ear) --> 18 Ohm
 AIAIAI TMA-1 Young Guru Edition --> 32 Ohm (if I'm not mistaken)
  
 So, the Mad Dogs (which I'll probably sell soon) and Alpha Dogs will probably do better with the Vali, but seeing that it pumps out 650mW at 32Ohm which is like half of what the Magni pumps out (while having an output impedance of less than 0.1...) well... not sure.
  
 So will wait for more impressions and more headphones being tested (with similar impedances) or Purrin (or anyone with a proto, or maybe even Jason if he's reading this), if you can test with similar 'spec'ed' headphones, it will be extremely appreciated.
  
  
 Thanks,.


----------



## Ranza

Will the Vali be able to drive hd800 ?


----------



## sling5s

I have a LCD-2, JH13 and Grado Magnum.  I know the LCD-2 is fine but it seems the JH13 and Grado Magnum is a no go with the Vali.
 But honestly, I don't mind a little hiss or even a little Impedance mismatch.  Honestly, if the impedance mismatch is going to roll off the treble on the JH13 and Grado Magnum, that could be a good thing.


----------



## purrin

ranza said:


> Will the Vali be able to drive hd800 ?


 
  
 Friend listened to it for a night with HD800. Others also tried HD558. HD558/598/600/650/800 should be alright.


----------



## shirazir

My goodness, the Schiit hype train is picking up steam. 

Folks are going to be mighty unhappy when they realize the best amp under $1000 isn't actually the one that's $119.


----------



## DigitalFreak

shirazir said:


> My goodness, the Schiit hype train is picking up steam.
> 
> Folks are going to be mighty unhappy when they realize the best amp under $1000 isn't actually the one that's $119.


 

 An in your opinion the best one is what, lmao?


----------



## ultrabike

Quote:


purrin said:


> Friend listened to it for a night with HD800. *Others also tried HD558*. HD558/598/600/650/800 should be alright.


 
  
 Yup. Pretty good sound from that little amp when using both HD558s and KSC-75s.
  


shirazir said:


> My goodness, the Schiit hype train is picking up steam.
> 
> Folks are going to be mighty unhappy when they realize the best amp under $1000 isn't actually the one that's $119.


 
  
 Which cans did you tried with the Vali?


----------



## leesure

shirazir said:


> My goodness, the Schiit hype train is picking up steam.
> 
> Folks are going to be mighty unhappy when they realize the best amp under $1000 isn't actually the one that's $119.


 

 So you've heard the Vali already?  No?  Maybe you should reserve judgement until you hear one. 
  
 I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but until you've heard one, you're doing nothing but assuming.  And you know what you do when you Ass U Me, right?


----------



## Fearless1

leesure said:


> No?  Maybe you should reserve judgement until you hear one.


 






  I wish more people would do that .


----------



## ethan7000

So: Vali, Magni, or other similar priced amp for the HE-500? Best synergy/pairing, recommendations please if anyone has heard these combos.


----------



## leesure

ethan7000 said:


> So: Vali, Magni, or other similar priced amp for the HE-500? Best synergy/pairing, recommendations please if anyone has heard these combos.


 

 While I think the Vali would do wonders for the rather flat (IMO) sound of the HE-500's, I don't think it will drive them to their potential.  They are considerably less efficient than the LCD's.  The Magni/HE-500 combo, while I have not heard them together, doesn't strike me as the most likely to sound fantastic either.  I found the HE-500's to be very accurate, but a bit dry.  The slight edginess of the Magni, I'm thinking, won't do much to improve that.  Tho if I had to choose between the two, The Magni would be the way to go.  If you don't need the mini size and can spare the extra change, the Asguard2 would be a better option from the Schiit line.


----------



## CEE TEE

headzone said:


> Hmm anyone tested Vali with Sennheiser HD600?
> 
> That would make a pretty sick sub 500$? sweet sounding package.


 
 HD600/Vali.   That's my plan until I build my Crack/Speedball.  
  
 But the Vali can fit as a bedside rig and my TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid can stay at work.
  
 Not sure where I will have room for the Crack, actually...


----------



## purrin

leesure said:


> While I think the Vali would do wonders for the rather flat (IMO) sound of the HE-500's, I don't think it will drive them to their potential.  They are considerably less efficient than the LCD's.  The Magni/HE-500 combo, while I have not heard them together, doesn't strike me as the most likely to sound fantastic either.  I found the HE-500's to be very accurate, but a bit dry.  The slight edginess of the Magni, I'm thinking, won't do much to improve that.  Tho if I had to choose between the two, The Magni would be the way to go.  If you don't need the mini size and can spare the extra change, the Asguard2 would be a better option from the Schiit line.


 
  
 ^ pretty much my thoughts and couldn't have said it any better - and I actually have tried the HE-500 with Vali, Magni, A2, Mjolnir, etc. Magni, if you can spare the change, A2. It ultimately depends upon your sonic preferences, your source, recordings, etc.


----------



## shirazir

digitalfreak said:


> An in your opinion the best one is what, lmao?


 
  
 The sub-$1k offerings from Burson or Woo Audio would be a good start....


----------



## MrEleventy

fraggler said:


> I love this thread.  Everything wonderful and awful about Headfi all in one.  Marvelous entertainment.  I think the amp is simply too cheap not to try it out and see for myself.




+1, and if you don't like it... resell it. To me.


----------



## purrin

shirazir said:


> The sub-$1k offerings from Burson or Woo Audio would be a good start....


 
  
 Maybe Soloist, but different sound. HA160, nope. WA3, nope. WA6 (non-SE), nope. WA7, certainly not.


----------



## jexby

purrin said:


> ^ pretty much my thoughts and couldn't have said it any better - and I actually have tried the HE-500 with Vali, Magni, A2, Mjolnir, etc. Magni, if you can spare the change, A2. It ultimately depends upon your sonic preferences, your source, recordings, etc.


 
  
 and I've got the HE-500 with the Asgard2 and Lyr (with some good tubes in them!), both fed by Bifrost Uber.
  
 I prefer the Lyr with quality (not stock!) tubes.
 Asgard2 sure isn't a bad choice.
  
 Purrin,
 besides the old design of Lyr (lacking some clarity, micro details) did you use anything other than stock tubes in it?
  
 only heard the Vali with the LCD2 at RMAF.  was impressed for sure.
 maybe a dream combo would be Vali + Audeze LCD-X ?  curious.
  
 still wish there was a Uber Modi for 1/2 price of a Uber USB2 BiFrost to pair with the Vali...


----------



## eke2k6

purrin said:


> ^ pretty much my thoughts and couldn't have said it any better - and I actually have tried the HE-500 with Vali, Magni, A2, Mjolnir, etc. Magni, if you can spare the change, A2. It ultimately depends upon your sonic preferences, your source, recordings, etc.


 
  
 This next sentence is not me being cynical or sarcastic, I promise.
  
 I'm really considering the Vali, but this talk of the Magni being equivalent puts slight doubt in my mind about just how good the Vali is supposed to be. I thought it was supposed to be the equal of amps around $1k.
  
 Say I had a HE-500, a Mad Dog, and HD-600, would I notice an improvement in pure SQ of the Vali over the Magni, sound signatures ignored? I ask because the first few pages insinuated that the Vali could really exert control over the drivers of the HE-400, an ability I know is independent of raw power output.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I think I will pull the trigger on one of these, sound a facinating project and I have been teethering on the edge of the Schiit world for for too long. Time to try at home.


----------



## purrin

eke2k6 said:


> This next sentence is not me being cynical or sarcastic, I promise.
> 
> I'm really considering the Vali, but this talk of the Magni being equivalent puts slight doubt in my mind about just how good the Vali is supposed to be. I thought it was supposed to be the equal of amps around $1k.
> 
> Say I had a HE-500, a Mad Dog, and HD-600, would I notice an improvement in pure SQ of the Vali over the Magni, sound signatures ignored? I ask because the first few pages insinuated that the Vali could really exert control over the drivers of the HE-400, an ability I know is independent of raw power output.


 
  
 OK, here's the deal with the HE-500. It tends to be soft in the bass (a little one-notish, blurry, etc.) and it requires power to come alive, sound not so compressed, have better articulation in the bass, etc. From the Vali, the HE-500 sounds soft, even though the Vali is more capable of transmitting the essence of my two not so inexpensive DACs. The question for me becomes this: Can I live with something no so good (softness, macro-dynamic compression) to get something really good (resolution, immediacy, microdynamics)? With the HE-500 I am more tempted to go with the "driver control / dynamics" option. Hence Magni (more power, lower output Z), A2, or even Mojo for HE-500. Although I have to admit the HE-500 from Vali is very tempting.
  
 The HE-400 on the other hand is way more efficient than the HE-500. The HE-400 also happens to have better quality, more articulate bass than the HE-500, possibly the best quality bass of the entire HFM lineup. So in the case of the HE-400, it's hands down Vali because Vali does not appreciably lower the quality of the HE-400 bass compared to A2, Mojo, etc.
  
 It's never a black and white thing where A > B for me.
  
 Finally, do not fail to consider the quality of your DAC and recordings. I found the Vali extremely resolving - it will resolve $2k-$3k DACs.
  
  


jexby said:


> Purrin,
> besides the old design of Lyr (lacking some clarity, micro details) did you use anything other than stock tubes in it?
> 
> only heard the Vali with the LCD2 at RMAF.  was impressed for sure.
> maybe a dream combo would be Vali + Audeze LCD-X ?  curious.


 
  
 Mostly with stock tubes. I have heard one Lyr with some $$$ tubes and admittedly there was an improvement, but it's still limited by the platform.
  
 I've heard good things about the LCD-X from people I trust (not just Jude, Mike Mercer, and Warren LOL!). Someone else I trust got to listen to the LCD2 with Vali @ RMAF and thought this: "Maybe it's the relative size/cost/simplicity of the thing relative to the headphones it was driving that helps it be such a stunner, but Vali has serious chops. Clear, dynamic, linear, slam, very slightly euphonic (minimal, not OTL euphonic). "


----------



## eke2k6

purrin said:


> OK, here's the deal with the HE-500. It tends to be soft in the bass (a little one-notish, blurry, etc.) and it requires power to come alive, sound not so compressed, have better articulation in the bass, etc. From the Vali, the HE-500 sounds soft, even though the Vali is more capable of transmitting the essence of my two not so inexpensive DACs. The question for me becomes this: Can I live with something no so good (softness, macro-dynamic compression) to get something really good (resolution, immediacy, microdynamics)? With the HE-500 I am more tempted to go with the "driver control / dynamics" option. Hence Magni (more power, lower output Z), A2, or even Mojo for HE-500. Although I have to admit HE-500 from Vali is very tempting.
> 
> The HE-400 on the other hand is way more efficient than the HE-500. The HE-400 also happens to have better quality, more articulate bass than the HE-500, possibly the best quality bass of the entire HFM lineup. So in the case of the HE-400, it's hands down Vali because Vali does not appreciably lower the quality of the HE-400 bass compared to A2, Mojo, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for that.
  
 As a follow up, what about the Vali makes it better than the Magni with the HE-400/Paradox? Just trying to nail down some specifics, as I have a chance to get the Magni for a really good price.


----------



## elwappo99

purrin said:


> OK, here's the deal with the HE-500. It tends to be soft in the bass (a little one-notish, blurry, etc.) and it requires power to come alive, sound not so compressed, have better articulation in the bass, etc. From the Vali, the HE-500 sounds soft, even though the Vali is more capable of transmitting the essence of my two not so inexpensive DACs. The question for me becomes this: Can I live with something no so good (softness, macro-dynamic compression) to get something really good (resolution, immediacy, microdynamics)? With the HE-500 I am more tempted to go with the "driver control / dynamics" option. Hence Magni (more power, lower output Z), A2, or even Mojo for HE-500. Although I have to admit the HE-500 from Vali is very tempting.


 
  
 Any chance you could comment Vali vs A2 vs Mojo for HE-500s in a little more detail?


----------



## purrin

eke2k6 said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> As a follow up, what about the Vali makes it better than the Magni with the HE-400/Paradox? Just trying to nail down some specifics, as I have a chance to get the Magni for a really good price.


 
  
 Goosebumps. I literally screwed myself up when I get the Vali back from Anaxilus (I let him borrow it first for a reason). Stayed up way too late (while I was sick and I still am sick) just listening to recordings, even music I really didn't even care for. The Vali was one of those amps that just sucked me in. I didn't want to put the headphones down. There's a liveliness or immediacy to how it renders recordings. I was doing crazy stuff in the middle of the night like listening to the PWD2 upstairs in my home office, then running downstairs to hear the AGD M7 (attached to the speaker rig), and back. The Magni never quite had that affect on me. It could have been the Tylenol, Aspirin, and Prednisone rotation combo though.
   


elwappo99 said:


> Any chance you could comment Vali vs A2 vs Mojo for HE-500s in a little more detail?


 


  
 You'd have to wait if you wanted more specifics as I don't have an A2 on hand, and I just lent out the Vali to ultrabike since he has a HD558 and we were curious how that combo would fair.


----------



## eke2k6

purrin said:


> The Vali was one of those amps that just sucked me in. I didn't want to put the headphones down. There's a liveliness or immediacy to how it renders recordings. I was doing crazy stuff in the middle of the night like listening to the PWD2 upstairs in my home office, then running downstairs to hear the AGD M7 (attached to the speaker rig), and back. The Magni never quite had that affect on me. It could have been the Tylenol, Aspirin, and Prednisone rotation combo though.


 
  
 Thanks. So is it possible that the differences are attributable to sound signature?


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> Also take into consideration that I too was highly unimpressed with the O2. And I don't think the O2 is good for the price either. Maybe $49. The O2 is currently used as a measurement amplifier, which is what it should be used for, not for listening.


 
  
 Well, what else is out there under $200 that's transparent and can drive my K400 and Q701 without it sounding like tinny/metallic/thin crap? Not much that i've seen. I don't have much experience with imported amps though, just the E9.
 I don't want a true portable amp. Most of these "O2 killers" that are supposedly more transparent are over $300. I've found an amp that sounds more transparent than the O2 to my ears, but it's $250 or so.
  
 Saying the O2 should not be used for listening is nonsense IMO. Maybe you like warmer sounding amps and you're just talking about your preferences? It had a hint of brightness with the Q701, but not too bad (less so than Magni).
 I actually felt it was fine with brighter headphones (haven't tried a DT-990 or SR-325i). O2 felt worth $120 to me, but I sold it and am looking for something even better with smoother treble.
  
 Have you tried the E9? I thought it was pretty good for the Q701/K701 and has some warmth. Overall it's smooth sounding but nothing like the O2 obviously. The Q701 doesn't seem to care about a 8-10ohm output impedance. I had a receiver with a 330 ohm output impedance and heard zero change at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have my doubts if the Vali will be good for the HD-650 to my ears, but maybe i'll try it. It could be the first Schiit amp I actually love. Magni was alright, but I felt the O2 was better.
 If I do love it It'll probably be with the K400. Personally I hate amps that are only good with specific headphones. With a $120 amp that's used as a backup I wouldn't mind so much.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

The Modi would be a good DAC choice for the Vali right? I'm planning on getting a Modi-PYST-Vali setup as soon as orders for the Vali start.


----------



## tdockweiler

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> The Modi would be a good DAC choice for the Vali right? I'm planning on getting a Modi-PYST-Vali setup as soon as orders for the Vali start.


 
  
 The Modi or ODAC would be a good choice for almost any budget amp, unless you want a very colored sound.
 I would gladly use a Modi with a $500 amp too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ODAC is my fave dac so far. More than my NFB5's wolfson dac, the Compass 2's Sabre ES9018, the Modi, Marantz, etc.

It sounded more dimensional and realistic to me. Though I must say, to me, all DACs I have used all sounded basically the same, except the E7 which was definitely on the warm, less detailed side.


----------



## tdockweiler

mad lust envy said:


> ODAC is my fave dac so far. More than my NFB5's wolfson dac, the Compass 2's Sabre ES9018, the Modi, Marantz, etc.
> 
> It sounded more dimensional and realistic to me. Though I must say, to me, all DACs I have used all sounded basically the same, except the E7 which was definitely on the warm, less detailed side.


 
  
 LOL I've owned the ODAC, Modi and Headroom Micro DAC and there's probably like less than a 2% difference in sound between them to my ears. The CS4398 DAC chipset in my Micro DAC seems a little fuller sounding than both but barely worth mentioning. I've never had any luck with budget DACs under $75. Not sure why. Even the E17 DAC is really not good enough to me.
  
 You can't really compare DACs to Amps, but the ODAC and Modi sound more transparent to me than the amps they go with


----------



## MattTCG

It seems that at the price point and a large dash of hype, most people are willing to give this amp a shot. Hmmm...


----------



## shirazir

matttcg said:


> It seems that at the price point and a large dash of hype, most people are willing to give this amp a shot. Hmmm...




+1

If nothing else, the price point makes it with a try. This said, I'll wait until I read some reviews from actual buyers.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

that and many of us are busy trying minature triode amps already....


----------



## tomb

purrin said:


> You seem to be shifting the argument. Your argument was that these tubes would keeping vibrating for minutes on end. I responded with evidence contrary to that.
> 
> In regards to your "number of samples" counterargument: In my experience, the microphonics of a tube, while they may vary with each individual tube, are the pretty much the same among each model (with the same plate structure.) For example, the KR PX4 I mentioned before is a highly microphonic tube. You tap on the glass, you are going to hear that! The EML 45 mesh is amazingly resilient and non-microphonic. I haven't heard KR PX4s which were less microphonic than others, nor EML 45 meshes which were microphonic, unless they were defective. To my knowledge, Raytheon hasn't made versions of the CV6088 with differing plate structures.
> 
> ...


 
 No, I'm not shifting the argument.  Your assessment of tube microphonics is completely off-base.  Perhaps I haven't any experience with tubes as expensive as you keep referencing, but I have handled and tested literally thousands.  The idea that you can predict microphonics down to the brand, model and plate type *is* ludicrous.  Maybe you can when they're $795 a pair.  When they're less than $10 and were manufactured in the numbers these were - good luck with trying to predict some consistency.  I've had tubes of the same type, same plate structure that ran the gamut of gently echoing when tapped to being impossible to even tolerate in a stable environment.  Even so, the great majority of such tubes were dead silent - microphonics, after all, _is a defect_ in an audio tube.
  
 My aborted forays have nothing to do with this.  Instead, it's about a business decision and the different choices one can take.  Pete Millett did a similar design long ago.  Jude mentioned it a ways back - the TTVJ Millett Hybrid Portable.  Pete chose to try to weed out the microphonic tubes, but it became untenable from a business perspective and he quit making them.  I talked to him personally about it.  I suppose he could've chosen to continue it, dropped the price, and simply stated that the tubes were microphonic, but he didn't.  It's interesting that Schiit apparently chose a different path.  Maybe it'll work, but accepting microphonic tubes upfront just struck me as odd in the face of the tremendous recommendations read herein.
  
 You say you're upfront with the negatives - but then you recommend tube microphonics and all the rest for $5000 headphones.  I have nothing against the amp _in the proper context_ and have often been amazed at Schiit's offerings and stated so in some of their threads.  It's your incautious context that has me concerned -


----------



## Aerocraft67

I'm curious to see how Schiit parses out the rationale for buying Valhalla with Vali in the lineup. In the Schiit guide, "Valhalla is a great entry-level tube amp that works very well with high-impedance headphones, but don't expect it to be able handle hard-to-drive headphones, or to be ideal with IEMs." Doesn't sound much different than what we're hearing about Vali. Valhalla sports swappable tubes, an OTL design, high-quality parts, and a form factor that matches Bifrost. Is that enough to justify the 3x price premium for what's otherwise an entry level tube amp? I see Lyr in this discussion, but wouldn't Vali squeeze the viable segment for Valhalla most?
  
 It's not entirely a rhetorical question since my HD 650s are a target application for Valhalla. I opted for an A2, but for $119, I might try Vali just for fun. Can't say that about Valhalla.


----------



## purrin

tomb said:


> No, I'm not shifting the argument.  Your assessment of tube microphonics is completely off-base.  Perhaps I haven't any experience with tubes as expensive as you keep referencing, but I have handled and tested literally thousands.  The idea that you can predict microphonics down to the brand, model and plate type *is* ludicrous.  Maybe you can when they're $795 a pair.  When they're less than $10 and were manufactured in the numbers these were - good luck with trying to predict some consistency.  I've had tubes of the same type, same plate structure that ran the gamut of gently echoing when tapped to being impossible to even tolerate in a stable environment.  Even so, the great majority of such tubes were dead silent - microphonics, after all, _is a defect_ in an audio tube.
> 
> My aborted forays have nothing to do with this.  Instead, it's about a business decision and the different choices one can take.  Pete Millett did a similar design long ago.  Jude mentioned it a ways back - the TTVJ Millett Hybrid Portable.  Pete chose to try to weed out the microphonic tubes, but it became untenable from a business perspective and he quit making them.  I talked to him personally about it.  I suppose he could've chosen to continue it, dropped the price, and simply stated that the tubes were microphonic, but he didn't.  It's interesting that Schiit apparently chose a different path.  Maybe it'll work, but accepting microphonic tubes upfront just struck me as odd in the face of the tremendous recommendations read herein.


 
  
 OK. I see what your saying now. That with these cheapy tubes, there's no guarantee what they are going to do. That the tubes in the prototype I have may probably not be a representative sample in terms of tube microphonics, or at least the manageability of such? Well, all I can say is that it's Schiit's ass on the the line and that I personally would give them the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, Schiit may do some sorting of the tubes themselves. Maybe Schiit is working on methods to damp microphonics before the production amps are being made? I don't know. I'm not privy to Schiit's engineering and production decisions.
  
 What I don't understand is why you continue to sow seeds of fear and doubt when you haven't heard the amp, haven't handled the amp, etc. What is it? Are you are afraid this amp is going to hurt your business as an MOT or something?
  


tomb said:


> You say you're upfront with the negatives - but then you recommend tube microphonics and all the rest for $5000 headphones.  I have nothing against the amp _in the proper context_ and have often been amazed at Schiit's offerings and stated so in some of their threads.  It's your incautious context that has me concerned.


 

  
 I also don't understand why you continued to be so obsessed with this issue. As I've said already, the ringing / microphonics is not an issue after about a minute. Less so for insensitive cans. What are you trying to do is to create an argument against an issue which either does not exist or has already been acknowledged. (I think people can decide for themselves if they feel comfortable with the behavior of the tubes in the Vali; and I'm sure Schiit being Schiit will fully disclose the microphonics issue in a FAQ on their website.)
  
 And you keep hammering on $5000 headphones $5000 headphones $5000 headphones. So what? First you say it's ludicrous, then you say you shouldn't have said ludicrous, and now you say it's incautious? Why is this incautious? Are you saying $5000 headphones must be used with $5000 amps? (I've lived with $5000 / $10000 amps, been there, done that.) What kind of nonsense is that? Or are you saying that Schiit should do a billet aluminum version with viscoelastic tube dampers and price the Vali at $2000? Would that make you feel better? Would that make it more acceptable for the praise I've put upon it?
  
 BTW, I plan on using the Vali with my Abyss AB-1266 until I have something more suitable. (Unless Jason tells me it's dangerous.) The Mjolnir is currently tied up running speakers until I get my semi-custom EC amp in, which will be probably middle of next year, and Vahalla's output Z is too high. Yeah - you're probably gonna say I'm incautious too for running speakers from the Mjolnir.


----------



## zerodeefex

I don't see what the big deal with a $120 amp being amazing is?!
  
 Given the impressions of both the Geek and the Vali from RMAF, they are must buys for me. Heck, $120 for the Vali, $200 for the Geek @ current price (http://mustgeekout.com/), $5000-5500 for the Abyss, and you have one hell of a rig. 
  
 I'll be pairing both with my HD800s and Paradox while I evaluate whether or not to get the Abyss.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

zerodeefex said:


> I don't see what the big deal with a $120 amp being amazing is?!
> 
> Given the impressions of both the Geek and the Vali from RMAF, they are must buys for me. Heck, $120 for the Vali, $200 for the Geek @ current price (http://mustgeekout.com/), $5000-5500 for the Abyss, and you have one hell of a rig.
> 
> I'll be pairing both with my HD800s and Paradox while I evaluate whether or not to get the Abyss.



I always LOVE when companies put absolutely no REAL specifications on a product. 'Awesomifier' doesn't cut it bob. We need specs. At least the sample rate for the DAC...


----------



## ultrabike

I've been reading a little about the TTVJ Millett Hybrid. Seems it was a battery operated portable. I can understand that microphonics would be a problem for a pocket portable amp. The Vali is a wallwart slave and is not moving anywhere. I see it as a small form factor desktop amp, which stacks nicely with the Magni and Modi.
  
 One of the things I find remarkable about the Vali is the sense of detail one gets from it while not being fatiguing with my HD558. It's a pretty fun little amp.


----------



## purrin

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> I always LOVE when companies put absolutely no REAL specifications on a product. 'Awesomifier' doesn't cut it bob. We need specs. At least the sample rate for the DAC...


 
  
 Specs on this page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gavn8r/geek-a-new-usb-awesomifier-for-headphones . See specs after PRODUCT UPDATE section.


----------



## zerodeefex

> I always LOVE when companies put absolutely no REAL specifications on a product. 'Awesomifier' doesn't cut it bob. We need specs. At least the sample rate for the DAC...


 
  
 Some folks who are overly harsh on products (not the usual shills we get here) came back from RMAF pleasantly surprised. I'll still reserve judgement until I have it in hand. They also posted a bunch of specs to their kickstarter:
  
Three Geek types: 1 - Geek, 2 - Super Geek, 3 - Super-Duper Geek
Two outputs on all types (2 x 3.5 mm jack): line and headphones, both are variable in digital domain (64bit precision)
Volume control: two buttons and software (Operation System main volume slider sends volume data to Geek which implements the volume change in its internal volume control)
Line-out output impedance: 47 Ohm (on all types)
Headphone output impedance: 0.47 Ohm (on all types)
Max output voltage (line-out and headphone): 2.65 Vrms (Geek), 3,4 Vrms (Super Geek), 4 Vrms (Super-Duper Geek)
Max output power (headphone, 16 Ohm): 450 mW (Geek), 720 mW (Super Geek), 1000 mW (Super-Duper Geek)
Native decoded  music format in PCM: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176,4, 192, 352.8, 384 kHz / 16, 24, 32 bits.
Native decoded digital format in DSD: 2.822, 3.072, 5.644, 6.144 mHz / 1 bit
"Class A" analogue output stage, THD+N better than 0.005 %, SNR is 103dB (none-weighted), 109dB (A-weighted)
Sample rate indicator LEDs, machined aluminum enclosure in three different colors, with 6" USB cable, driver for PC (plug and play on MAC and Linux)
  
 Back to the Vali, I'll be buying one day one, but won't comment on the sound until I can make observations myself.


----------



## tdockweiler

> It's a pretty fun little amp.


 
  
 Amps should never be fun. If it is it's not worth using.
 Count me out! I'll pass on all the fun stuff.
  
 I like my amps as boring as possible. Heck, I think the reason I hate most Schiit amps is that they're too shiny.
 Every time I looked at the Magni it would annoy me and ruin my whole music experience and make me mad. The light on the front hurts my eyes too.


----------



## ultrabike

tdockweiler said:


> Amps should never be fun. If it is it's not worth using.
> Count me out! I'll pass on all the fun stuff.
> 
> I like my amps as boring as possible. Heck, I think the reason I hate most Schiit amps is that they're too shiny.
> Every time I looked at the Magni it would annoy me and ruin my whole music experience and make me mad. The light on the front hurts my eyes too.


 
  
 Turn the amp around and turn off the lights.


----------



## TMRaven

The Asgard2 was too fun for you and thus you returned it in favor of the O2 huh Tdockweiler.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

The light on the front of the magni hurts my eyes too... I hope Schiit fixes that.


----------



## tdockweiler

tmraven said:


> The Asgard2 was too fun for you and thus you returned it in favor of the O2 huh Tdockweiler.


 
  
 Yes, you are right!
  
 I sent it back and wrote on the amp with a sharpie: Too much Fun. This is obviously colored and not usable.
  
 I actually went from Magni > O2 > Asgard 2
  
 I actually haven't had fun listening to headphones since 1972 or so. Every recording is very flawed and of poor quality.
  
 O2 would have been perfect but it had a hint of fun/sillyness in it's treble. It's really unacceptable and should have been picked up in measurements.


----------



## ultrabike

BTW Tdock, other than needing to spray paint the amp in deepest black, the Vali should pair well with your HD598 and the price is not out of this world.
  
 By fun I do not mean U-shaped. It should not load your HD598s at all and throw away the tonal balance. It should enhance your music experience in my opinion.


----------



## tdockweiler

ultrabike said:


> BTW Tdock, other than needing to spray paint the amp in deepest black, the Vali should pair well with your HD598 and the price is not out of this world.
> 
> By fun I do not mean U-shaped. It should not load your HD598s at all and throw away the tonal balance. It should enhance your music experience in my opinion.


 
  
 No, I actually like the design of the Schiit Amps. Asgard 2 looks really simple/plain and I like that. People say my Micro Amp is ugly as hell but I like that too.
 Actually there are very few amps I HATE. Most of them I disliked were just weak portable amps.
  
 Despite all my nitpicks I liked the O2 and Magni. The only Schiit amp i've liked was the Magni, but OK Asgard 1 was pretty great with the HD-600 and D2000. I'm more of a Headroom fanboy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As my main amp though i'd never buy one that didn't play well with ALL my headphones (don't care about IEMS). I'll use the Vali in my bedroom. If I don't like it i'll just resell it. No big deal.
  
 You know an amp is good when you own it for 3 years and doesn't magically transform your headphones into something they're not. Synergy is so stupid IMO.
  
 The headphone I want to try first is the Koss Pro DJ100 with M50 pads. It's only 38ohm but is fine with even a 10ohm output impedance. That thing can sound like poop on warm/dark amps. It was very good on the Magni.


----------



## FraGGleR

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> I always LOVE when companies put absolutely no REAL specifications on a product. 'Awesomifier' doesn't cut it bob. We need specs. At least the sample rate for the DAC...


 
 Check their blog: http://mustgeekout.blogspot.com/  Tons of specs and measurements.


----------



## dBel84

I wasn't sure what to expect but I was pretty much floored by how much detail and control this little amp has - I said to Jason that there is no way that Schiit should sound that good. If anything, I think the Modi was holding it back. This is just one of "those" products - it is going to generate huge waves. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## ejwiles

eke2k6 said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> As a follow up, what about the Vali makes it better than the Magni with the HE-400/Paradox? Just trying to nail down some specifics, as I have a chance to get the Magni for a really good price.


 
 Really good price?  How about $119?  (Not being sarcastic, just jealous...)


----------



## azteca x

fraggler said:


> Check their blog: http://mustgeekout.blogspot.com/  Tons of specs and measurements.


 
 Yepppp people hated on their "awesomeifier" term but it was clearly just marketing - they not only offered specs and measurements but ran a comparison to similarly priced offerings from other companies.


----------



## ssrock64

I read as far as page eleven before getting bored, so I've seen some of the initial single-paragraph discussions of its pairings with the Mad Dog and Alpha Dog. Has anything thorough been written on the topic?


----------



## tdockweiler

dbel84 said:


> I wasn't sure what to expect but I was pretty much floored by how much detail and control this little amp has - I said to Jason that there is no way that Schiit should sound that good. If anything, I think the Modi was holding it back. This is just one of "those" products - it is going to generate huge waves.
> 
> ..dB


 
  
 All thanks to Nomax! Err wait, I mean Purrin.gggg


----------



## Lorspeaker

loved the asgard, it kept my coffee n cookies warm throughout my listening pleasure. 





​


----------



## imackler

Cannot wait to hear how this sounds with the HD600! Eagerly waiting impressions


----------



## Makiah S

cee tee said:


> I want to give Schiit a little stack o' cash this Friday.  But, I hear that they should be available in about three weeks...definitely in!!!




wow... damn this is awedome news! Ive been wanting a tube for my w1000 as my ss is too cold... this sounds perfect  an as a previous owner or two used tubes that cost MORE than the vali... im stocked to do a review with it! This might b the amp that forces me to keep my w1000 se for another year

best of all... I can afford it . im totally stocked for my first schiit amp n hopefully my last hybrid tube.

How does it pair with low impedance cans :3

so im going to totally ride the hype train on this one. Not to mention Schiit has made n excellent name for them selvs n im again very excited to get some American made audio gear in my house.


----------



## purrin

mshenay said:


> wow... damn this is awedome news! Ive been wanting a tube for my w1000 as my ss is too


 
  
 May not be a good match with W1000s. The amp has a high noise floor which does not gel well sensitive cans like that Audio Technica. Lyr recommended if your current ss amp sounds too cold.


----------



## Makiah S

purrin said:


> May not be a good match with W1000s. The amp has a high noise floor which does not gel well sensitive cans like that Audio Technica. Lyr recommended if your current ss amp sounds too cold.




ugh so the gain is not adjustable... that stinks  

now im sad... great welp back to the drawing board


----------



## elwappo99

nvm, nvm


----------



## UmustBKidn

eke2k6 said:


> This next sentence is not me being cynical or sarcastic, I promise.
> 
> I'm really considering the Vali, but this talk of the Magni being equivalent puts slight doubt in my mind about just how good the Vali is supposed to be. I thought it was supposed to be the equal of amps around $1k.
> 
> Say I had a HE-500, a Mad Dog, and HD-600, would I notice an improvement in pure SQ of the Vali over the Magni, sound signatures ignored? I ask because the first few pages insinuated that the Vali could really exert control over the drivers of the HE-400, an ability I know is independent of raw power output.


 
  
 Yeah, ditto, don't shoot me for typing this either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Modi -> Magni -> Beyer DT770 / 250 ohm = Nice
  
 Modi -> Bravo V2 w/Mullard tube -> Beyer DT770 / 250 ohm = Better than Magni, depending on music. Definitely tubey, and no microphonics.
  
 So my question is:
  
 Modi -> Vali -> Beyer DT770 / 250 ohm = ???
  
 I am willing to believe it could also be quite nice. I like cheap hybrid amps


----------



## UmustBKidn

> Originally Posted by *purrin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...
> The Magni never quite had that affect on me. It could have been the Tylenol, Aspirin, and Prednisone rotation combo though.
> ...


 
  
 +1 for Better Living through Chemistry.
  
 Seriously, Prednisone is some serious stuff d00d. Are you going to be ok?


----------



## UmustBKidn

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> The Modi would be a good DAC choice for the Vali right? I'm planning on getting a Modi-PYST-Vali setup as soon as orders for the Vali start.


 
  
 I love my Modi. It is beautiful and clear, like a sunny morning with Claritin-D.


----------



## UmustBKidn

matttcg said:


> It seems that at the price point and a large dash of hype, most people are willing to give this amp a shot. Hmmm...


 
  
 Well, no. Not me. I'm going to wait until I hear someone review it with a Beyer DT770-250 ohm, preferably driven with a Modi.


----------



## UmustBKidn

aerocraft67 said:


> I'm curious to see how Schiit parses out the rationale for buying Valhalla with Vali in the lineup. In the Schiit guide, "Valhalla is a great entry-level tube amp that works very well with high-impedance headphones, but don't expect it to be able handle hard-to-drive headphones, or to be ideal with IEMs." Doesn't sound much different than what we're hearing about Vali. Valhalla sports swappable tubes, an OTL design, high-quality parts, and a form factor that matches Bifrost. Is that enough to justify the 3x price premium for what's otherwise an entry level tube amp? I see Lyr in this discussion, but wouldn't Vali squeeze the viable segment for Valhalla most?
> 
> It's not entirely a rhetorical question since my HD 650s are a target application for Valhalla. I opted for an A2, but for $119, I might try Vali just for fun. Can't say that about Valhalla.


 
  
 Yeah. I've been thinking the same sort of thing. If you believe the hype, then this little amp really shoots much of the rest of the Schiit amp lineup in the foot.
  
 Fortunately, I don't believe the hype.
  
 On the other hand, if this turns out to be true, then my decision of whether to buy a Valhalla or a Bottlehead Crack is pretty much made up, in favor of the Crack.


----------



## purrin

umustbkidn said:


> +1 for Better Living through Chemistry.
> 
> Seriously, Prednisone is some serious stuff d00d. Are you going to be ok?


 
  
 I'm surprised I'm not dead. Swollen throat and lymph glands for five days straight and no solid food until just a few days ago.
  
  
 Anyways, on the Vahalla amp: it's output impedance is 30 ohms. That's rather high and makes it unsuitable for anything other than the HD558, HD600, HD650, HD800, 250/600 ohm Beyers, etc. An exception could be made for Grados, where the Vahalla even provides agreeable coloration for them. Orthos are highly NOT recommended. I've tried HE-400, HE-500, etc. with the Vahalla. Results were not good. The Vahalla is a tubey sounding amp (lush, syrupy, soft, etc.) and I got it for this reason.
  
 With Vali, one can get by with HE-400, Paradox, MadDog, LCD2, etc. It's very different sounding from the Vahalla. Much clearer sounding, more resolving, faster, etc.
  
 The Bottlehead Crack has an even higher output impedance than the Vahalla at 120ohms. Again limited to the usual high impedance headphones. With the speedball upgrade, the Crack is really a great amp. More accurate sounding than tubey. I actually feel the Crack is a better sounding amp than the Vahalla. The downside of course if that you have to put it together.
  
 Maybe I should make a "Guide to Schiit Amps".


----------



## papahommer

purrin said:


> I'm surprised I'm not dead. Swollen throat and lymph glands for five days straight and no solid food until just a few days ago.
> 
> 
> Anyways, on the Vahalla amp: it's output impedance is 30 ohms. That's rather high and makes it unsuitable for anything other than the HD558, HD600, HD650, HD800, 250/600 ohm Beyers, etc. An exception could be made for Grados, where the Vahalla even provides agreeable coloration for them. Orthos are highly NOT recommended. I've tried HE-400, HE-500, etc. with the Vahalla. Results were not good. The Vahalla is a tubey sounding amp (lush, syrupy, soft, etc.) and I got it for this reason.
> ...


 
 OUCH!!! That gotta hurt...
  
 But your idea on the "Guide to Schiit Amps" would be a good idea!!! I was thinking of getting a HD-800, but knowing that my the MM is not going to drive it, I am think of getting the Valhalla or the Lyr. Any recommendations?


----------



## Makiah S

A shame to hear I would need the Lyr for low impedance sensitive headphones :/, for the price of the Lyr I would rather just save up for an LD MK VI+ honestly :[


----------



## FraGGleR

tdockweiler said:


> All thanks to Nomax! Err wait, I mean Purrin.gggg


 
 ROFL!


----------



## tuna47

I love the lyr with good tubes using bifrost uber and he500 warm but detail sound love the head room, never go over 11 o'clock 
A great combo being a hybrid I feel you get the best of both worlds
I might buy the Vali for a more easy to move amp


----------



## ethan7000

purrin said:


> I'm surprised I'm not dead. Swollen throat and lymph glands for five days straight and no solid food until just a few days ago.
> 
> [rule]
> Anyways, on the Vahalla amp: it's output impedance is 30 ohms. That's rather high and makes it unsuitable for anything other than the HD558, HD600, HD650, HD800, 250/600 ohm Beyers, etc. An exception could be made for Grados, where the Vahalla even provides agreeable coloration for them. Orthos are highly NOT recommended. I've tried HE-400, HE-500, etc. with the Vahalla. Results were not good. The Vahalla is a tubey sounding amp (lush, syrupy, soft, etc.) and I got it for this reason.
> ...



I would love to have your guide to Schiit and all other amps you've used.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

so this amp is meant as a cheap tube amp with great performance if you wanna drive planars and high impedance but not good for low sensitivity headphones?
  
 i bet it'd sound great with AKG K701s


----------



## imackler

dubstep girl said:


> so this amp is meant as a cheap tube amp with great performance if you wanna drive planars and high impedance but not good for low sensitivity headphones?
> 
> i bet it'd sound great with AKG K701s


 
  
 I'm kind of confused. Seems like the target headphone is the Sennheiser HD6** etc.? The 300-600 ohm headphones... Not sure though


----------



## ultrabike

Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> so this amp is meant as a cheap tube amp with great performance if you wanna drive planars and high impedance* but not good for low sensitivity headphones*?
> 
> i bet it'd sound great with AKG K701s


 
  
 It's not so good for *high* sensitivity headphones due to the noise floor.
  


imackler said:


> I'm kind of confused. Seems like the target headphone is the Sennheiser HD6** etc.? The 300-600 ohm headphones... Not sure though


 
  
 The target seems more like 32 ohms and above, from mid to low sensitivity.
  
 The Vali's impedance may be around 5 ohms or lower (may measure it sometime later). An HD600 is a high impedance headphone and while it requires a bit of voltage swing, the FR would be uncolored by the amp. However, the HD600 is kind of a mid to high sensitivity headphone if I recall correctly, therefore might still hear the noise floor. It was not a big problem for me with my also mid to high sensitivity HD558 (and ~50 ohms).
  
 Planar magnetic headphones have around 30 to 60 ohms impedance range and are usually low sensitivity, so those might actually be a better match. Like DG said, perhaps the AKG K701 is also a good match too.


----------



## elwappo99

dubstep girl said:


> so this amp is meant as a cheap tube amp with great performance if you wanna drive planars and high impedance but not good for low sensitivity headphones?
> 
> i bet it'd sound great with AKG K701s


 
  
 Definitely what I was thinking. 
  


ultrabike said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> dubstep girl said:
> ...


 
  
 The AKG K701 series isn't really what I would call a high sensitivity headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm almost positive she meant low sensitivity. Hence why she mentioned planars and the AKGs.


----------



## ultrabike

mad lust envy said:


> I'm almost positive she meant low sensitivity. Hence why she mentioned planars and the AKGs.


 
  
 Yup.


----------



## MattTCG

mad lust envy said:


> I'm almost positive she meant low sensitivity. Hence why she mentioned planars and the AKGs.


 
  
 You assume dsg is in fact a girl. Ironically like some here assumed that you were also.


----------



## blueangel2323

matttcg said:


> You assume dsg is in fact a girl. Ironically like some here assumed that you were also.


 
 If her username ends with "Girl" I think it's reasonable to assume that she is indeed a girl, unless "he" is intentionally trying to deceive us (which has happened before, not to mention any names). But 6000+ posts later we have not seen any evidence of that


----------



## MattTCG

Oh come on. I'm just messing around. I like DSG regardless of gender.


----------



## hojomojo96

Not sure what to do now. I was originally gonna go for the Project Ember, but hmm... I think I still might, just because of tube rolling, looks, and also variable gain.


----------



## kstuart

For those on the fence, I will be ordering this when available, and I am one day shipping distance from Schiit, and I will be comparing it to:
  
 * Another tube hybrid amp (see sig)
 * 300watt per channel vintage solid state amp
  
 with:
  
 * Alpha Dog
 * Mad Dog 3.2
 * HE-400
 * Sony MDR-MA900
  
 through:
  
 * HRT Music Streamer Two Plus (revised version)
  
 So, if you are wondering how it will work with any of the above, stay tuned for another impression  (note that Alpha Dog and Sony are also not yet received, but should arrive before the Vali).


----------



## younglee200

I've heard the Lyr & the Vali, with the Bifrost & Modi as the DAC with the HD800s
  
 Although there were ambient noises (at Canjam), I thought that the Crack amp w/ speedball from an audio-gd DAC sounded quite a bit better.


----------



## Change is Good

kstuart said:


> For those on the fence, I will be ordering this when available, and I am one day shipping distance from Schiit, and I will be comparing it to:
> 
> * Another tube hybrid amp (see sig)
> * 300watt per channel vintage solid state amp
> ...


 
  
 Definitely staying tuned as I have the MD 3.2 and original HRT MS II... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ... but with an iFi iCan and Matrix M-Stage as my current amps. I am looking at either this or the AG2 as I've been told I can get much more out of my MDs with a stronger amp.


----------



## FraGGleR

younglee200 said:


> I've heard the Lyr & the Vali, with the Bifrost & Modi as the DAC with the HD800s
> 
> Although there were ambient noises (at Canjam), I thought that the Crack amp w/ speedball from an audio-gd DAC sounded quite a bit better.


 
 Do you remember which Audio-gd DAC it was?


----------



## icomrade

Jeez, I just bought a magni I might have to buy this sooner or later to compare!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Are there any pictures floating around of the internals of the Vali?


----------



## UmustBKidn

purrin said:


> I'm surprised I'm not dead. Swollen throat and lymph glands for five days straight and no solid food until just a few days ago.
> 
> 
> Anyways, on the Vahalla amp: it's output impedance is 30 ohms. That's rather high and makes it unsuitable for anything other than the HD558, HD600, HD650, HD800, 250/600 ohm Beyers, etc. An exception could be made for Grados, where the Vahalla even provides agreeable coloration for them. Orthos are highly NOT recommended. I've tried HE-400, HE-500, etc. with the Vahalla. Results were not good. The Vahalla is a tubey sounding amp (lush, syrupy, soft, etc.) and I got it for this reason.
> ...


 
  
 I had to take Predisone once in my life, for about a week. To this day I don't know what happened, but my entire body had turned pink, I was itchy and had a temperature. That stuff knocked whatever it was out of me. I suspect I got some bad food from a burger place, which I never again visited. Yeesh. My best wishes for a speedy recovery.
  
 I think you should write a guide. Why not? Especially if you're sitting around home recovering. Would pass the time nicely.
  
 My best cans are Beyer DT770/250's, which is why I was shooting for either the Valhalla or Crack. I've got enough cheap amps as it is, no point in getting another one (I need another DAC before I get another amp anyway). Putting together a kit doesn't bother me at all, that's a non-issue for me. I'm just curious which sounds "better" with my favorite cans. So your guide would be useful information for me.


----------



## nehcrow

Can't wait!
 Currently just powering my HD650's off MacBook Pro  
 Need dat Vali and Modi, want to see how much a leap in performance it will be


----------



## UmustBKidn

nehcrow said:


> Can't wait!
> Currently just powering my HD650's off MacBook Pro
> Need dat Vali and Modi, want to see how much a leap in performance it will be


 
  
 You spent $500 bucks for headphones to drive them with a laptop?
 Anything at all will be a dramatic improvement. Seriously.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

umustbkidn said:


> You spent $500 bucks for headphones to drive them with a laptop?
> Anything at all will be a dramatic improvement. Seriously.




+1!

Doing those headphones wrong wrong wrong! Even a FIIO E7 or the Pyle rebrand (phe7ab) for $56 at Amazon will improve SQ!


----------



## nehcrow

Lol i know what I'm doing is blasphemous around here but no other options atm
 Just going to hold out until Vali... or might just pick up a Magni/Modi combo while I'm waiting, not sure

 EDIT: I spent $290 AUD for them btw  Not $500...


----------



## mcullinan

Will this amp work with Senn HD598s? Sorry there was so much impedance this, yada, Im not sure.. 

 Thanks!


----------



## Tuco1965

umustbkidn said:


> You spent $500 bucks for headphones to drive them with a laptop?
> Anything at all will be a dramatic improvement. Seriously.


 
 What's wrong with buying the cans first?  Got to start somewhere.  Next stop amp and dac.


----------



## younglee200

fraggler said:


> Do you remember which Audio-gd DAC it was?


 
  
 The DAC is the audio-gd 3.2 and the amp is the stock Crack w/ Speedball and I own them both.  I do not own an HD800, (I own an HD650 instead) but I have auditioned one for a few weeks to try it out and the combo was nothing but fantastic.
  
 I have auditioned both Vali combo & the Lyr combo at RMAF and it did not impress me as I thought it would.


----------



## wewewho77

tuco1965 said:


> What's wrong with buying the cans first?  Got to start somewhere.  Next stop amp and dac.



Agreed. You start with headphone which sound signature you like. Next find an amp and DAC that has synergy with your cans.


----------



## TMRaven

Definitely.  And as Purrin hypothetically said, if I had around 5000 dollars I'd put all my money into an Abyss and the rest into a Vali.  Get the best headphone you can get for the money and think about dac/amp later.


----------



## Sony Slave

I was just about to purchase a magni, looks like i'm going to give this a try whenever it comes out.


----------



## conheo

the hyper train is so promising...I would try it as soon as it comes down to A2A...hope it drives well my "bedside can" V6.


----------



## purrin

umustbkidn said:


> My best cans are Beyer DT770/250's, which is why I was shooting for either the Valhalla or Crack. I've got enough cheap amps as it is, no point in getting another one (I need another DAC before I get another amp anyway). Putting together a kit doesn't bother me at all, that's a non-issue for me. I'm just curious which sounds "better" with my favorite cans. So your guide would be useful information for me.


 
  
 I'd go Crack + speedball (or even without) unless you plan on getting orthos which the Crack will not do well with. There's nothing quite like having built something yourself. Plus, you'll have a few options to roll tubes. I love the Crack with the HD600/650 and high-Z Beyers.


----------



## Makiah S

*sigh* I wish this would work with my W1000x q.q
  
 Still I might end up buying this anyways... just to hear it for mah self!


----------



## kstuart

wewewho77 said:


> tuco1965 said:
> 
> 
> > What's wrong with buying the cans first?  Got to start somewhere.  Next stop amp and dac.
> ...


 
 DACs should not have synergy with anything.  A DAC should be neutral, the better the DAC, the more neutral and transparent.
  
 So "You start with headphones whose sound signature you like" is correct !  Then find an amp that has synergy with your cans - you can ask in the head-fi thread about those headphones which amps work best.
  
 A DAC should be the best DAC you can afford, and of course, that has the outputs, inputs and size that you need.  Once in a while, there may be an electrical need for a particular product (such as "so-and-so amp requires a DAC with high voltage output") but that is rare.
  
_A reviewer can truthfully say that an otherwise good DAC sounds "warm" or "bright" or "lacks dynamics", etc. etc. But those are flaws, and should be very slight, they should not be used to match with other electronics_.
  
 In the case of the Vali, if you do not have a DAC, then the best choice is a Schiit DAC, because the two products will match visually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As in this picture:


----------



## blueangel2323

Sound signature and synergy aren't always the same thing though. Sound signature is inherent in the device and doesn't change regardless of what amp you pair it with. Synergy is about the interaction between two devices so that it might sound better paired with one amp than with another amp. I agree that DACs should be neutral and have no sound signature. Unfortunately some DACs have better synergy with certain amps and headphones.


----------



## tdockweiler

kstuart said:


> DACs should not have synergy with anything.  A DAC should be neutral, the better the DAC, the more neutral and transparent.
> 
> So "You start with headphones whose sound signature you like" is correct !  Then find an amp that has synergy with your cans - you can ask in the head-fi thread about those headphones which amps work best.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wait, why would you suggest that a DAC should not have synergy with anything, but then suggest that an amp needs to have synergy with your cans? IMO there's plenty of transparent amps out there where there is no need to worry about this synergy nonsense. Unfortunately these are pretty much amps that don't get much attention. If an amp was really transparent than you'd think it'd be equally good with very warm or bright/thin/trebly headphones. If you don't like it with that amp than you're trying to alter it's sound with some nice colorations I guess. I can understand what you're talking about if you mean power requirements.
  
 All the hyped up gear on Head-Fi usually has some coloration. I learned my lesson when I bought my first desktop amp and DAC and it was all a complete fail in the end. Sounded nice with one headphone, but not my others.
  
 IMO synergy sounds like an excuse for having bought gear that's not very neutral sounding (like me). I'm glad to not have to worry about stupid synergy.
  
 I don't expect the Vali to be some ultra transparent O2 killer and I have a good idea what to expect. I'm ok with some minor coloration. Like fuller mids, smoother treble etc.
  
 The Modi to my ears deserves a better amp than the Magni (no not that it's bad..I liked it). It's just that good. Maybe the Vali will be it? I imagine it will be...hope so.
  
 I'm really looking forward to a Schiit amp that I like as much as the Modi DAC!


----------



## tdockweiler

mshenay said:


> *sigh* I wish this would work with my W1000x q.q
> 
> Still I might end up buying this anyways... just to hear it for mah self!


 
  
 Why wouldn't it work? I've found that some headphones that are 38-42ohm etc don't seem to care about a higher output impedance (if that's what you're talking about).
 I can't hear any changes with my DJ100, K400, Q701 with a 10 or 330ohm output impedance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I tried a 330 ohm output receiver with my KRK KNS-8400 and it became very cave like. Pretty funny.
  
 I've always found it amusing when people say the E9's 10 ohm output magically makes it incompatible with the Q701. Nonsense!
  
 Guess it all depends on the headphone. Obviously IEMs are another story..


----------



## ultrabike

mshenay said:


> *sigh* I wish this would work with my W1000x q.q
> 
> Still I might end up buying this anyways... just to hear it for mah self!


 
  
 If you are worried about the output impedance, I measured the Vali's output impedance to about < 6.4 ohms. So while not exactly complying with the 1/8 rule, it might still work with your W1000x. But dunno. Have not even heard the W1000x.


----------



## Sony Slave

I would be excited for the Vali, but it's a hybrid tube amp. For instance, my 840's are completely incompatible with the Little Dot 1+. The amp does not make a difference to my cans. So I plan on getting a Magni Instead.


----------



## tdockweiler

LOL I'm only excited because it's American made and an actual desktop amp that's CHEAP!
 I have nothing against Chinese or foreign built products though, but I try to buy US built headphone amps.
  
 I hope Schiit delays it as long as possible if needed until it's 1000% perfect and they have a huge stock of them.
  
 My Modi will be used as a backup DAC soon so it'll be cool to have a 2nd full setup in my bedroom. Not sure why I need all that in an apartment


----------



## Sony Slave

tdockweiler said:


> LOL I'm only excited because it's American made and an actual desktop amp that's CHEAP!
> I have nothing against Chinese or foreign built products though, but I try to buy US built headphone amps.
> 
> I hope Schiit delays it as long as possible if needed until it's 1000% perfect and they have a huge stock of them.
> ...


 
 Do you know what headphones that have a similar sound signature to the 840s, that are actually compatible with hybrid tube amps?


----------



## tdockweiler

sony slave said:


> Do you know what headphones that have a similar sound signature to the 840s, that are actually compatible with hybrid tube amps?


 
  
 Some say the HD-600 has some similarities to the SRH-840. I had the SRH-840 once and always loved it but switched to the M50 and then the DJ100. I wonder if i'd still like it as much as I did back then...
  
 What's wrong with the SRH-840 on a hybrid tube amp?
  
 IMO an amp sounds best when it doesn't change how the headphone is supposed to sound. Just improve what's already there.
  
 Maybe the 840 is like the HD-598 and doesn't improve/change much between different amps. I'd probably never buy a $250+ amp for my HD-598. Sounds good with almost everything.


----------



## Sony Slave

tdockweiler said:


> Some say the HD-600 has some similarities to the SRH-840. I had the SRH-840 once and always loved it but switched to the M50 and then the DJ100. I wonder if i'd still like it as much as I did back then...
> 
> What's wrong with the SRH-840 on a hybrid tube amp?
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe you're right. I think that the 840s may not actually change between different amps. I'll see, when I go and buy the Magni and pair it up with the bi-frost in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Schroeder77

How does anyone feel about the Duet 2 with Senn 650s from a mac? I have it, it's the best I've ever had since I'm new to all this, I'm curious if I'm doing the cans justice. I was told that Apogee's DAC quality is excellent; would I hear a significant difference out of the 650s with certain other combos?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

What are the dimension of the Modi/Magni/Vali?


----------



## Sopp

soundsgoodtome said:


> What are the dimension of the Modi/Magni/Vali?


 
  
 Modi/Magni Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

sopp said:


> Modi/Magni Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”


 
   Wow, all the pics on the threads sure make em look twice the dimensions!  Thanks


----------



## UmustBKidn

nehcrow said:


> Lol i know what I'm doing is blasphemous around here but no other options atm
> Just going to hold out until Vali... or might just pick up a Magni/Modi combo while I'm waiting, not sure
> 
> EDIT: I spent $290 AUD for them btw  Not $500...


 
  
 Oh. Well. Only $290 clams. That's more like it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To be fair, there are those who'd tell you to get the best cans you can afford first, before investing in other gear. So don't feel too bad.
  
 Quite frankly, the Magni+Modi stack is what I'd consider the bare minimum "Good" setup. For whatever that's worth. I have a pair and I love them. I also have a couple Bravo V2 hybrid amps, which I also enjoy. I use one with my Modi, and swap it back and forth with my Magni, depending on what I'm listening to.
  
 In my case, being well over 50 and knowing my hearing just isn't that great, I can get away with owning lower cost gear. I know for a fact that my kids can hear stuff with my own headphones that I simply cannot any more. Even if I had a pair of HD 600's or 650's, I'm not sure I could really hear the difference any more.
  
 It's a pity, really. By the time a person is old enough to really afford good gear, it might be the case that they can't appreciate it any more. And when you're young, you can't afford it (I know I couldn't). Nature seems to do twisted stuff like that now and then.


----------



## UmustBKidn

> What's wrong with buying the cans first?  Got to start somewhere.  Next stop amp and dac.


 
  
 You are right, of course. I just couldn't resist the commentary


----------



## UmustBKidn

purrin said:


> I'd go Crack + speedball (or even without) unless you plan on getting orthos which the Crack will not do well with. There's nothing quite like having built something yourself. Plus, you'll have a few options to roll tubes. I love the Crack with the HD600/650 and high-Z Beyers.


 
  
 Thank you sir. I have an excess of 12AU7's anyhow LOL. I've even started buying a few 6080 tubes from eBay in anticipation of a tube rolling frenzy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The only other quandry is the next DAC... I am unsure if I could really hear the improvement of a Bifrost Uber, over a Modi. That's not a negative commentary on the gear, it's simply the practical consequences of being an Old Guy with Old Ears. I am fairly sure I could hear the improvement in the amp. So the Crack isn't in question. But on the DAC, I'm just not sure I want to spend the money, if I can't hear the difference.
  
 I am so puzzled about this that I am considering waiting for the next local meet, just to see if I can make a comparison somehow. I'd spend the money on the Bifrost, if I knew I could hear the difference. But I know my hearing cuts out after 14 kHz (based on sine wave test tones generated by Passmark SoundCheck, played on my best setup). So if my hearing is that limited, why spend the money? Buying a second Modi may be the best bet.
  
 Curiously, I can still hear low frequencies quite well (20 Hz and slightly below).


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

Gosh I never want to lose my hearing  having damaged senses of any kind just terrifies me. I'm sorry about your lossUmustBkiddin


----------



## mcullinan

Thats what happens when you get older. A test... Im 45 and I can only hear up to 12khz http://youtu.be/AXhRmv1mrs4


----------



## Dubstep Girl

elwappo99 said:


> Definitely what I was thinking.
> 
> 
> The AKG K701 series isn't really what I would call a high sensitivity headphone.


 
  
 yeah i said it backwards. meant to say that this amp would be good for low sensitivity (AKG K701, planars, etc) and bad for high sensitivity (grado, denon, etc)


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

Dat 20Hz rumble on X10's... Hey It cut out at 10KHz for me, is it just my IEM?
http://youtu.be/MMu6nPeIDOY
Or the video? Or my E7? Or my IPhone?


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

http://youtu.be/fwrbFj9r10Y
Sound all te way down the spectrum. Woo fr X10's.


----------



## blueangel2323

ultrabike said:


> If you are worried about the output impedance, I measured the Vali's output impedance to about < 6.4 ohms. So while not exactly complying with the 1/8 rule, it might still work with your W1000x. But dunno. Have not even heard the W1000x.


 
  
 How did you manage to measure one already? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


tdockweiler said:


> IMO an amp sounds best when it doesn't change how the headphone is supposed to sound. Just improve what's already there.


 
  
 In that case there would be no point in even considering tubes. Solid state always outperforms vacuum tubes at the same price point when it comes to strict technical accuracy. The appeal of tubes is that it "improves" the sound through euphonic distortions.
  


schroeder77 said:


> How does anyone feel about the Duet 2 with Senn 650s from a mac? I have it, it's the best I've ever had since I'm new to all this, I'm curious if I'm doing the cans justice. I was told that Apogee's DAC quality is excellent; would I hear a significant difference out of the 650s with certain other combos?


 
 The Apogee is very good, the main complaint being that it's a bit on the harsh and bright side, but that makes it well suited to the HD650s which have laid back treble. It's very expensive just to use as a DAC+amp though, if you don't use it as an interface for recording music.


----------



## TMRaven

He brought his measuring rig to canjam obviously.


----------



## ravager

sony slave said:


> Maybe you're right. I think that the 840s may not actually change between different amps. I'll see, when I go and buy the Magni and pair it up with the bi-frost in a couple of weeks.


 
 I get a little bit of a ground loop hum with my 840 Magni pairing, up to around 10 o'clock on the pot, and that hum is not evident on the 325s or even the 280s. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this.


----------



## jexby

FWIW,  this Isolation device
 http://www.jkaudio.com/pureformer.htm
  
 removed both ground loop hum and slight usb fuzz when placed in between my BiFrost Uber + Lyr!
  
 another reviewer on amazon said it did the same for his Modi+Lyr combo.
 YMMV


----------



## ultrabike

blueangel2323 said:


> How did you manage to measure one already?


 
   
 I have it on loan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


blueangel2323 said:


> In that case there would be no point in even considering tubes. *Solid state always outperforms vacuum tubes at the same price point* when it comes to strict technical accuracy. The appeal of tubes is that it "improves" the sound through euphonic distortions.


 
  
 Probably depends on the metric and test conditions. Also note that one may build a class A tube and a class A SS. Then you have to consider hybrids, such as the Vali.


----------



## campj

mcullinan said:


> Thats what happens when you get older. A test... Im 45 and I can only hear up to 12khz http://youtu.be/AXhRmv1mrs4


 
 I'm 30 and can only hear to 12khz also... too many concerts, loud car system, loud headphones, and guns for quite a few years. One time I had to take a one hour UH60 helo ride with no hearing protection... I'm pretty sure that took it's toll as much as all of the long term stuff has.


----------



## mcullinan

Ive been to my share of loud shows, have a loud car system, sub, amps, loud home system...  no guns tho.... but many shows with my ear smack up against a stack of 12 foot speakers. Id say my hearing is still good though... I listen more at moderate levels now... or at least i try too.


----------



## elwappo99

dubstep girl said:


> yeah i said it backwards. meant to say that this amp would be good for low sensitivity (AKG K701, planars, etc) and bad for high sensitivity (grado, denon, etc)


 
  
  
 Figured as much.


----------



## tdockweiler

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just clicked that link too and couldn't even hear that mosquito.
 I tried this one and my hearing rolls off at 15666hz:
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l4Rt4Ol7M
  
 Never thought that would be considered "excellent"
  
 Dang, I was sure I had hearing as good as a bat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I used my Q701 and should try another one.
  
 Oh yeah, i'm 33. No concerts for me and I don't listen too loud.


----------



## Argybargy

Cool test 15.2 for a 42 yo.

On topic I wonder if tube rolling will simply involve desoldering. Many alternative tube choices? I'm not familiar with these mini ones.


----------



## Tuco1965

This isn't meant for rolling.


----------



## ethan7000

tdockweiler said:


> Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just clicked that link too and couldn't even hear that mosquito.
> I tried this one and my hearing rolls off at 15666hz:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l4Rt4Ol7M
> ...


 
 Seems volume dependent. I was around there at a softer volume, but then could hear starting at 18.5 at a higher volume.


----------



## tuna47

66 yrs old you loose the highs but bass and midrange is still good to go still a headphone nut


----------



## Tman5293

tdockweiler said:


> Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just clicked that link too and couldn't even hear that mosquito.
> I tried this one and my hearing rolls off at 15666hz:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l4Rt4Ol7M
> ...


 
  
 I just tried that test. My hearing doesn't roll off until 18K. I'd say that's pretty good. I am only 19 though so that may have something to do with it.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I just tried it on my cell phone and iem. Should I be using quality equipment to properly do the test?


----------



## ssrock64

soundsgoodtome said:


> I just tried it on my cell phone and iem. Should I be using quality equipment to properly do the test?


 
 It's a YouTube video; high quality audio is automatically out the window. If you're using IEMs that only sing up to 17K you might have issues, but that's not very likely.


----------



## Kamakahah

I like to use http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php when I'm playing around and do the blind test to help verify.
  
 Obviously calibration is going to be a big factor. Since you are setting the volume yourself, your results may or may not be so accurate.
  
 These types of tests aside, even if you could hear up to 20khz in a test with no other frequencies present, would you actually be able to notice in the average song? I think I would have a hard time. Maybe others wouldn't.
  
  
 I'm considering picking this up to go along side the Magni. Hopefully it offers a different perspective on my music and isn't simply a redundant piece. From the current impressions, I think it'll be a nice add on piece for the price. Like one of the other members had mentioned, I was also considering a project ember to bring the tube factor into my music experience. Not having to deal with tube rolling looks like it could be beneficial but possibly restricting. The price and ease of use is winning the fight.


----------



## mcullinan

Maybe equipment matters too.. Ill have to try them at home...


----------



## kenshinhimura

tdockweiler said:


> Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just clicked that link too and couldn't even hear that mosquito.
> I tried this one and my hearing rolls off at 15666hz:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l4Rt4Ol7M
> ...


 

 pretty cool test. i came in a about 18000hz. not bad for being 32


----------



## elwappo99

kenshinhimura said:


> tdockweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just clicked that link too and couldn't even hear that mosquito.
> ...


 
  
 Yea, I think there's something wrong with that test. I heard sound at 18kHz, but I know that's not what it sounds like. Also, I'm pretty sure I can't hear too far above 17K.


----------



## hojomojo96

How do you think the vali will work as a cheap amp for the LCD-2?


----------



## mcullinan

Cool. 14500 Not bad for an old dude


----------



## gHeadphone

16k for me


----------



## Schroeder77

blueangel2323 said:


> How did you manage to measure one already?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Using it for recording was the first reason why I got it for my laptop whenever I was away from home. I've been using it with the 650s just as often for enjoying music though, and was curious if using just the dac portion from usb to the audio out into a dedicated headphone amp would make any significant difference in sound. If not with the 650s, then maybe with the next headphone I get, whichever one that may be. I'm going to a meet for the first time next weekend, so I'll know what headphone my preferences will lean me towards after that, maybe. Thanks for your advice!


----------



## 4nradio

tdockweiler said:


> Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just clicked that link too and couldn't even hear that mosquito.
> I tried this one and my hearing rolls off at 15666hz:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l4Rt4Ol7M
> ...


 
  
  
 I'm nearly 58, and my roll-off happens at 15.9 kHz.  Dang! I should have enjoyed more loud concerts when I was younger.


----------



## hojomojo96

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> http://youtu.be/fwrbFj9r10Y
> Sound all te way down the spectrum. Woo fr X10's.


 
 Heh, my crappy harmon/kardon computer speakers go all the way down, too.


----------



## nehcrow

Way too many raves = not so good hearing for me lol
I dont mind too much though


----------



## SMG52

Word from Schiit is November release date for Vali amp.  Interested in how it will compare with my TBI Millenia amp on my Paradox headphones. Purrin has wet my interest.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

Gosh so hyped for this amp. I'm probably going to get a iPhone 5s either the end of this month or some time next month, in addition to the Schiit stack. Oh wallet why must you suffer so...

Also, I'm sure it must've been gear error because I'm only 16 and have perfect hearing at doctors offices...


----------



## drm870

24 years old, I top out at around 18.7 kHz with that test.


----------



## veyrongatti

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> Gosh so hyped for this amp. I'm probably going to get a iPhone 5s either the end of this month or some time next month, in addition to the Schiit stack. Oh wallet why must you suffer so...
> 
> Also, I'm sure it must've been gear error because I'm only 16 and have perfect hearing at doctors offices...


I guess you should get an HD800 than  with the vali the hd800 can now be powered cheaply..........


----------



## Tman5293

I just redid that hearing test with the HD 650 and I can hear everything below 18.8K. That's pretty darn good considering that 20K is supposed to be the very top end for humans.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mcullinan said:


> Ive been to my share of loud shows, have a loud car system, sub, amps, loud home system...  no guns tho.... but many shows with my ear smack up against a stack of 12 foot speakers. Id say my hearing is still good though... I listen more at moderate levels now... or at least i try too.


 


campj said:


> I'm 30 and can only hear to 12khz also... too many concerts, loud car system, loud headphones, and guns for quite a few years. One time I had to take a one hour UH60 helo ride with no hearing protection... I'm pretty sure that took it's toll as much as all of the long term stuff has.


 


mcullinan said:


> Thats what happens when you get older. A test... Im 45 and I can only hear up to 12khz http://youtu.be/AXhRmv1mrs4


 
  
 Indeed. And thank you, to the person who expressed condolences.
  
 Science has determined that the most long term damage to hearing is done by sound that is heard over a long period of time (and not so much by short bursts of loud sound). So you're more likely to experience a loss of hearing if you spend many hours per night listening to headphones at too-loud levels, over a period of years. But sitting behind a jet airplane taking off, while louder, probably won't do long term damage.
  
 In my case, I worked at Huge Aircrash Company for about 14 years, in noisy test labs, with many many cooling fans running all around me. Once, I complained about the noise, and they brought in a sound pressure meter to measure the level. It happened to be just below the legal limit. How convenient for them. So I mistakenly believed that it was okay to listen to all that noise, and didn't wear any hearing protection (all they offered me were those annoying plastic ear inserts anyway).
  
 After I left the company, I had my hearing tested (for a medical reason), and I discovered then that I had a fairly noticeable hearing loss around 4 kHz. I also can't hear particular spoken tones, and frequently have to ask people to repeat themselves. Lessons learned:
  
 - Never trust the "legal" definition of acceptable noise levels. They are too loud. Fan noise, even at "legal" levels, over 14 years, damaged my hearing.
  
 - Even if the mofo's won't buy you decent hearing protection, buy your own. I now own a nice pair of noise blocking headphones that I use whenever I have to sit in a noisy lab with fans running all around me.
  
 And yes, as we get older, our hearing diminishes. My 90+ year old Dad has to wear hearing aids, or I have to nearly yell for him to hear me.
  
 So whenever I buy audio gear, I have to temper my expectations based upon my increasingly limited hearing. For me, what some folks consider "Summit-Fi" is quite frankly unneccessary - I couldn't hear it anyhow. So as I proceed in my Head-Fi journey, I decided to start from the bottom and go up, cautiously. I have a sneaking hunch that I don't need to move too much farther up the chain before I just won't hear the improvements any more.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mcullinan said:


> Thats what happens when you get older. A test... Im 45 and I can only hear up to 12khz http://youtu.be/AXhRmv1mrs4


 
  
 Hah! I heard the 8 kHz just fine. LOL.
  
 I had to listen twice to hear the 12 kHz tone.
  
 15 kHz? Fuggetaboutit.
  
 Here's the free tool I use to generate test tones: Passmark Sound Check.


----------



## UmustBKidn

tdockweiler said:


> Sorry for the off-topic post, but I just clicked that link too and couldn't even hear that mosquito.
> I tried this one and my hearing rolls off at 15666hz:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l4Rt4Ol7M
> ...


 
  
 12 kHz was my best on that one.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mcullinan said:


> Maybe equipment matters too.. Ill have to try them at home...


 
  
 Yes. Equipment matters, lol. That is after all, what we discuss so frequently here.
  
 Saying I can't hear above 12 kHz on a Youtube video doesn't bother me. That's why I use a tool that's sitting on my computer, with my best gear hooked up. On that I can hear up to 14 kHz.
  
 So yeah, it matters.


----------



## UmustBKidn

tman5293 said:


> I just tried that test. My hearing doesn't roll off until 18K. I'd say that's pretty good. I am only 19 though so that may have something to do with it.


 
  
 Enjoy it while it lasts bro


----------



## claybum

I came to this thread tonight because its been an entertaining thread, but I have no intention on buying any schiit products.It's nice to see a discussion on hearing issues even though it is way off topic. I haven't listened to my headphones since aug. 29. That night I went to a Gary Numan concert with hearing protection, even with the protection,  my ears have been ringing ever since.
  
 The onset of tinnitus is scary and filled me full of dread. Very much a change to my life. I told my partner and all he said was "well, what did you expect to happen"  I can't blame the concert. It's been cumulative. I started playing the drums when I was 8. I played my first night club gig when I was 15 and continued to play in bands until I was 28. I also followed the Grateful Dead around the country from 1979 to 1988 usually seeing about 40 shows a year. Tons of other concerts too. I never wore hearing protection until about 5 years ago. So I figured hearing loss and tinnitus were a possibility. Just never thought it would happen at age 51.
  
 My point I'd like to make is......I believe my headphone usage contributed to my situation. I never listed loud, but I listened often. I believe having the source of the music so close to your ears can be damaging. The speakers I am currently listening to seem much more benign. So if you abused your ears like I have throughout your life, take heed. I still have most of my headphones hoping I can listen to them safely some day in the future. Not sure that day will come. In my research about tinnitus, I discovered Gary Numan has some pretty bad tinnitus himself. 
  
 Hope this post wasn't too big of a bummer. I did purchase some super nice B & W matrix 805 bookshelf speakers that sound right up there with my totl headphonesl


----------



## MattTCG

I never mind a bit of OT about tinnitus. It's a serious and life changing effect of hp's if you don't take precautions. I had my own personal scare and have recovered to about 90%. Needs to be mentioned more often around here. Take care of your hearing people.


----------



## tuna47

On good equipment you do not have to blast it too sound great I am 66 and play at healthy level, but never blast it


----------



## FraGGleR

This thread has got me looking at spl meters on Amazon.  I want to know how loud I am listening.  And to be on topic, yay Vali!  
  
 Schiit, there is a small meet in Chicago on Nov 2nd.  I'd be happy to pay right this moment to have one available for the meet.


----------



## mcullinan

Yeah, i guess you have to be careful. When i freelanced in nyc Id have my senns pegged at louD since there was so much noise around me. And its dangerous to walk around with noise cancelling headphones, you have to hear a little of whats going on around you. Ill try lower levels for now on.


----------



## cidiano

V Moda Faders or similar plugs (Etymotic makes them as well) do a great job at preserving your hearing. They simply reduce all incoming sound by about 12 dB, so it doesn't sound muffled but still protects your ears.


----------



## azteca x

fraggler said:


> This thread has got me looking at spl meters on Amazon.  I want to know how loud I am listening.  And to be on topic, yay Vali!
> 
> Schiit, there is a small meet in Chicago on Nov 2nd.  I'd be happy to pay right this moment to have one available for the meet.


 
 Getting a solid SPL meter is a good idea for room measurements and everything but if you want a ball-park estimate and have an iOS device, check out UE SPL - it's free and should get you within a few dB for sure.


----------



## sling5s

Please let's get back to topic.


----------



## wes008

nehcrow said:


> Way too many raves = not so good hearing for me lol
> I dont mind too much though


 
 Aw I know. I'm only 17 and I topped out at 15khz, and that was straining  Bass goes all the way down to 20 though


----------



## gelocks

sling5s said:


> Please let's get back to topic.


 
  
 +1
  
 So... did anyone ever mention a release date for the Vali?!?


----------



## tdockweiler

Schiit should have a package deal (not discounted) of the Vali + Modi. Anything to get more people to try my favorite Modi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe throw in a free cable... or not. I know that Schiit doesn't like sales and they're already cheap enough.
 Or even a tiny discount on shipping. I wish more people had $25-30 next day delivery. Of course Fedex/UPS rarely gives discounted rates to smaller companies I guess.
  
 As much as I liked the Magni, the Modi deserves even better!


----------



## ethan7000

I'm feeling rebellious and thinking of trying the Vali with the TH600 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 (I understand the impedance, noise floor issues)


----------



## FraGGleR

gelocks said:


> +1
> 
> So... did anyone ever mention a release date for the Vali?!?


 
 Sign card at RMAF said November.  Jason has said in various posts 2-3 weeks after RMAF.  I check their site daily


----------



## Dubstep Girl

fraggler said:


> This thread has got me looking at spl meters on Amazon.  I want to know how loud I am listening.  And to be on topic, yay Vali!
> 
> Schiit, there is a small meet in Chicago on Nov 2nd.  I'd be happy to pay right this moment to have one available for the meet.


 
  
 +1


----------



## gelocks

fraggler said:


> Sign card at RMAF said November.  Jason has said in various posts 2-3 weeks after RMAF.  I check their site daily


 
  
 Thanks.
 I guess I'll probably try it, put it up against the Magni while using the Alpha's...


----------



## funkthumb

I just emailed and asked the guys at schiit and received a reply of - "Complete info will be available on the site when we start shipping in a couple of weeks."  So, nothing from them until they ship - but the good news is it is going to be in the next couple of weeks!


----------



## tomb

purrin said:


> OK. I see what your saying now. That with these cheapy tubes, there's no guarantee what they are going to do. That the tubes in the prototype I have may probably not be a representative sample in terms of tube microphonics, or at least the manageability of such? Well, all I can say is that it's Schiit's ass on the the line and that I personally would give them the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, Schiit may do some sorting of the tubes themselves. Maybe Schiit is working on methods to damp microphonics before the production amps are being made? I don't know. I'm not privy to Schiit's engineering and production decisions.
> 
> What I don't understand is why you continue to sow seeds of fear and doubt when you haven't heard the amp, haven't handled the amp, etc. What is it? Are you are afraid this amp is going to hurt your business as an MOT or something?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The whole point of this is you're trying to *excuse* tube microphonics.  Heck, you even suggest the microphonic ringing can add to the listening experience.  Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?  Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?  Then show your testing plots, give your cautionary statements about the ringing and high output impedance (actually a false focus, IMHO) and leave it at that.  But no, among other things, you have to claim that microphonics can somehow add to the listening experience (sympathetic microphonics?).  Yeah, that's entirely possible ... but it's also _entirely random_.
  
 I don't care whether the amp is good - it very well may be.  I've stated before that Schiit is one of the best things to happen to Head-Fi and the headphone culture: affordable, quality amps and DACs.  I don't doubt that the Vali is any different in its proper context.  Instead, it's your gushing for a $119 microphonic amp and recommendation to pair it with $5000 headphones that has me troubled.
  
 Just because I'm a MOT, it doesn't mean you can take cheap shots, either - even though you seem to fall back on that in every post.  From my perspective (a formerly _trusting_ one) you seem to enjoy a reputation of testing and measurement.  Well, a _responsibility_ goes along with that.  For instance, why are you going to wait until "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"  Does not the database of measurements that you produce tell you enough?  Are you now stating that all of this thread is suspect unless "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"
  
  
 EDIT: Sorry.  That's more negative than just about anything I've ever said on Head-Fi.  Mods, please delete if you think appropriate.  I'm just a little crazy at the idea of tube microphonics becoming the norm for $5000 headphones.


----------



## Bimbleton

You guys are fighting over a literal box of Schiit. AWESOME.  
  
 Side Q: Any tests done with the HD650? Getting the sense these are bright-ish amps (brighter than the Magni, at least, which was itself slightly treble-happy from what I've read), so would they ruin the smooth, laid-backness of these headphones?


----------



## tomb

simanick said:


> You guys are fighting over a literal box of Schiit.


 
 That much is true, for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I will quit fighting ... it's not good.


----------



## purrin

tomb said:


> The whole point of this is you're trying to *excuse* tube microphonics....But no, among other things, you have to claim that microphonics can somehow add to the listening experience (sympathetic microphonics?).  Yeah, that's entirely possible ... but it's also _entirely random_.
> 
> Instead, it's your gushing for a $119 microphonic amp and recommendation to pair it with $5000 headphones that has me troubled.


 

  
 Dude, give it a rest. Honestly I'd appreciate it if you stopped distorting the original context of my comments regarding microphonics and the use of Abyss with the Vali.
  

Nowhere did I ever indicate that tube microphonics is something desirable. In any case, the initial tube microphonics disappear after thirty to sixty seconds. It remains fairly stable and impervious against additional microphonics unless one slams on the desk or hits the chassis of the amp. You seem hell bent on making the Vali microphonics sound much worse than it really is. It's a temporary issue immediately after turn-on and switching headphones.
Nowhere did I ever explicitly recommend the Vali as the amp to pair with the Abyss. Now I did mention (on another website mind you), that "I'd hook up the Vali to the Abyss and call it day". I don't see what the problem is with this statement unless you are some sort of audio snob. Quite honestly, I see no problem with those wishing to run their Abyss from an Asus Xonar soundcard. I dunno. What you do suggest? Pairing the Abyss up with less resolving amps <$1k amps from Woo and Burson? I also have a Mjolnir, but I prefer the Vali over the Mjolnir in many instances, especially for those headphones which don't need the power and driver control of the Mjolnir. I don't understand what your problem with this is? Oh wait, it's a "microphonic" amp. In that case, please re-read #1 above.
  


> Originally Posted by *tomb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?  Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?


 
  
 Do you think the Vali is the first piece of gear that I've had the privilege to listen to before most others? I mean who exactly are you to tell me what to say? Who assigned you the role of the Righteous Gatekeeper of Allowable Hype on Head-Fi? 
  
 I typically note negatives of gear rather then write positive things about them. I get criticized for being a "hater" (K3003, HD700, Meridian Explorer, SRH1440, Leben, etc.). I heard the Vali, I loved it. I thought it punched well above its weight class, doing many and most things better than amps up to $1500. I rarely get excited by gear, but this piece I did get excited about. So I wanted to talk about it and let the general HF community know about it. It's a little bit of change of pace for me.
  
 Other people "hype" all the time here. Warren does it. Mike Mercer does it. Project86 does it. Skylab does it. LFF used to do it sparingly. Jude certainly does it. Some other people even hype stuff that is measurably (and subjectively sonically bad). I don't even get paid for this, nor do I get a free Vali, nor does Jason sponsor my website, nor does Jason approach me. In fact, I believe this is the first time I've brought attention to something I really liked. So s_eriously, what is your problem dude?_ 
  
 More than anything else, it sounds like you are sore because you weren't able to offer anything like this yourself. You may as well not even bother listening to it since you seem so dismissive and biased against Schiit - that they provide "_*affordable*_, quality amps and DACs." The fact is, with some on their new stuff like the Asgard 2, I am starting to feel that they are not only "value" leaders, but also provide great stuff in pure absolute terms.
  
  


tomb said:


> Just because I'm a MOT, it doesn't mean you can take cheap shots, either - even though you seem to fall back on that in every post.  From my perspective (a formerly _trusting_ one) you seem to enjoy a reputation of testing and measurement.  Well, a _responsibility_ goes along with that.  For instance, why are you going to wait until "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"  Does not the database of measurements that you produce tell you enough?  Are you now stating that all of this thread is suspect unless "Jason tells me it's dangerous?"


 
  
 Again, give it a rest dude. The Vali's microphonics are not going to blow up anything. I know from my testing that the amp is safe. (There are plenty of measurements on the Vali already if you know where to look.) If you took the Vali apart and examined its design/topology, you would probably also gain insights into why it sounds as good as it does.
  
 Again, you've purposely taken one of my statements (one made in irony) "Until Jason tells me it's dangerous" and perverted it into another one of your semantic arguments. Now - you do realize that I only made that statement because of your preposterous suppositions (indirect implications because direct implications would be too strong a claim on your part as an MOT) that Brownian motion in air particles or simply blowing on the Vali would cause microphonics resulting in the diaphragm of the Abyss to fly out of the headphone.
  


tomb said:


> EDIT: Sorry.  That's more negative than just about anything I've ever said on Head-Fi.  Mods, please delete if you think appropriate.  I'm just a little crazy at the idea of tube microphonics becoming the norm for $5000 headphones.


 
  
 People run microphonic tubes on $3500, $4000, $5000, $10,000 headamps. Why should Vali be scrutinized more? Because it costs less?
  


tomb said:


> That much is true, for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 I'm still ill and recovering so I've got nothing else to do. Please keep going. Maybe I'd respect more of what you had to say if you had actually handled or hear the Vali yourself.


----------



## tdockweiler

Man i'm really tempted to order pizza right now...do you think I should ?


----------



## tdockweiler

Incoming !!!
  
 I love Pete the Pizzamaker


----------



## rhodan818

I've watched them in the store doing an order. There is no actual tracking, it is an automated timer


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

C'mon everyone, lets get the post count to 1000 before schiitments are made!


----------



## tdockweiler

rhodan818 said:


> I've watched them in the store doing an order. There is no actual tracking, it is an automated timer


 
  
 I think you're right because when it says they left the store I heard my doorbell buzzer. Liars!


----------



## Bimbleton

Domino's has some of the best crusts in the business. That garlic salt mixture around the edges has deep flavor extension, with the bread providing a hint of airiness up top. By far my favorite has to be the smooth creamy midrange however, which is where all the toppings are. You can't beat it for the price; I think it beats the Schiit Vali in value.


----------



## ultrabike

simanick said:


> You guys are fighting over a literal box of Schiit. AWESOME.
> 
> Side Q: Any tests done with the HD650? Getting the sense these are bright-ish amps (brighter than the Magni, at least, which was itself slightly treble-happy from what I've read), so would they ruin the smooth, laid-backness of these headphones?


 
  
 I tested the Vali amp my HD558 (which given their lower impedance are probably more susceptible to amp coloration) and don't think they made my phones bright at all.
  
 I think you should still get the smoothness of these cans.
   

 @Tomb, I really admire both your kits (Torpedo, Starving Student, and the MiniMax) and your support for the DIY community. But what would you say if things went down more like this:
  


tomb said:


> simanick said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are fighting over a literal Beezar MiniMax pile box of FAIL. AWESOME.
> ...


 

  
 Some people are putting quite a bit of effort into delivering a great little amp at a great price, and not sure if you realize that you are taking a dump on that too.
  



tomb said:


> The whole point of this is you're trying to *excuse* tube microphonics.  Heck, you even suggest the microphonic ringing can add to the listening experience.  Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?  Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?  Then show your testing plots, give your cautionary statements about the ringing and high output impedance (actually a false focus, IMHO) and leave it at that.  But no, among other things, you have to claim that microphonics can somehow add to the listening experience (sympathetic microphonics?).  Yeah, that's entirely possible ... but it's also _entirely random_.
> 
> I don't care whether the amp is good - it very well may be.  I've stated before that Schiit is one of the best things to happen to Head-Fi and the headphone culture: affordable, quality amps and DACs.  I don't doubt that the Vali is any different in its proper context.  Instead, it's your gushing for a $119 microphonic amp and recommendation to pair it with $5000 headphones that has me troubled.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't think anybody is saying that microphonics are good. One either deals with this *transient *issue or not. If we can get over that, we can talk about the sound, and I can tell you it's pretty damn good.
  
 Regarding MOT "cheap shots", what do you think these leading questions are and imply:
  
 "Why don't you let the amp be announced on its own?"
 "Feel some obligation because you were given a privilege to listen to it before anyone else?"
  
 To address some of the concerns:
  
 1) "high output impedance (actually a false focus, IMHO)"
  
 The Vali is about < 6.4 ohms. I don't think that's all that high for a Tube amp. How much is your MiniMax, Torpedo and Starving Student?
  
 Lets take a look at the much more expensive and very well regarded Pinnacle (http://www.apexhifi.com/Pinnacle.htm). I may be reading wrong, but in IEM mode it seems to be 8 ohms. Does that make it bad and unworthy of $5000 phones? Most likely not.
  
 2) ... wait until "Jason tells me it's dangerous?" ...
  
 I don't think it's dangerous... do you? 
  
 3) I'm just a little crazy at the idea of tube microphonics becoming the norm for $5000 headphones.
  
 Microphonics are in this case a relatively brief transient problem. Once the mechanical vibration settles it is not a problem. I would be more concerned if the amp was heavily colored and muddy. Those problems are not brief and do not go away.


----------



## Anavel0

Dear lord! I can't wait till Schiit starts selling the Vali and all you children can start playing nice again.


----------



## seb7

Hmmm..might get this since it's so cheap.
  
 Maybe everyone should get it so we have a common point of reference


----------



## ethan7000

simanick said:


> Domino's has some of the best crusts in the business. That garlic salt mixture around the edges has deep flavor extension, with the bread providing a hint of airiness up top. By far my favorite has to be the smooth creamy midrange however, which is where all the toppings are. You can't beat it for the price; I think it beats the Schiit Vali in value.



lol very nice


----------



## jexby

anavel0 said:


> Dear lord! I can't wait till Schiit starts selling the Vali and all you children can start playing nice again.


 
  
 wait what!?  each of us needs to purchase and hear a Vali personally before reporting an opinion on it's sonic quality??
 all of head-fi just shut down with your new (but nice idea) "valid"dation criteria.
 cheers.




  
 ps.  I'll be buying a Vali because it is cheap and could light a fire on my HD600s.
 why not?  what is to lose?


----------



## ethan7000

jexby said:


> wait what!?  each of us needs to purchase and hear a Vali personally before reporting an opinion on it's sonic quality??
> all of head-fi just shut down with your new (but nice idea) "valid"dation criteria.
> cheers.



Definitely not what he was saying.


----------



## tdockweiler

If it's not amazing with every headphone I own I am going to demand a refund from Purrin!
 He did say it's the most transparent amp ever invented didn't he?


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> If it's not amazing with every headphone I own I am going to demand a refund from Purrin!
> He did say it's the most transparent amp ever invented didn't he?


 
  
 I'll pay the restocking fee for you. You still having to pay shipping back to Schiit. That's two people now I'm on the hook for restocking fees.


----------



## purrin

simanick said:


> Side Q: Any tests done with the HD650? Getting the sense these are bright-ish amps (brighter than the Magni, at least, which was itself slightly treble-happy from what I've read), so would they ruin the smooth, laid-backness of these headphones?


 
  
 Not brighter than Magni. I felt the Magni was a bit on the bright side. At least the one I heard a while back.


----------



## Anavel0

ethan7000 said:


> Definitely not what he was saying.



No but was very close to it.  So much arguing over a product that hasn't been released for sale yet. We have a few reviews from trusted sources that got a Vali early and the people that tried it at RMAF. 

At its price point of $119 it just has to make sound to be a decent value. Now if it makes good sound at $119 it will be a great value.


----------



## MickeyVee

x2.. Nicely said.
  
 I've been looking for a bedside amp that would work with the HD800 and LCD2.2.  For the $129 price of admission, the Vali seems like a no brainer for me. Will be pairing it up with a DragonFly and hopefully it will end up being a decent small system.    My main A/V rig doesn't have a headphone out so will also try the Vali there. Just for giggles, will also test with the WA7 DAC.
  
 If it doesn't work for me, I'll just move on. Tried the Magni and it didn't work for me, way too bright even with the HE500. Sold it locally after a couple of months for what I paid for it (less shipping).
  
 Quote:


anavel0 said:


> No but was very close to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> I'll pay the restocking fee for you. You still having to pay shipping back to Schiit. That's two people now I'm on the hook for restocking fees.


 
  
 No, it's ok. I was just kidding. If I don't like this i've already used up my yearly returns with Schiit (1). The Asgard 2 seems incompatible with my house/ears so I returned it.
 For $120 I don't care and can just resell it online. I liked the Magni but it was a little too bright for me with the Q701. I think I should stop being so picky.


----------



## MattTCG

Be as picky as you want. It's a free quality that comes with the audiophile admission card. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do think that the A2 is a fantastic amp and a great pairing with 650. We'll just have to disagree on that one.
  
 Back on topic...I think that I'll pick up the Vali, for the same reasons that all the rest of you have already stated. The price is enticing for the perceived performance. I tend to agree with most of the impressions made by Purrin, so that's enough for me to give it a shot.


----------



## Makiah S

tdockweiler said:


> Why wouldn't it work? I've found that some headphones that are 38-42ohm etc don't seem to care about a higher output impedance (if that's what you're talking about).
> I can't hear any changes with my DJ100, K400, Q701 with a 10 or 330ohm output impedance
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nothing to do with ohms, and power mis match but the amp is noisy, People are reporting that with very sensitive headphones you can hear a lot of noise, since the combination of low budget parts and a high gain= a HIGH Noise floor. So for something as senstive as the w1000x your going to be hearing a lot of noise. My last two hybrid tubes where noisy. 


ultrabike said:


> If you are worried about the output impedance, I measured the Vali's output impedance to about < 6.4 ohms. So while not exactly complying with the 1/8 rule, it might still work with your W1000x. But dunno. Have not even heard the W1000x.


 
 The noise more than anything 
  


tman5293 said:


> I just tried that test. My hearing doesn't roll off until 18K. I'd say that's pretty good. I am only 19 though so that may have something to do with it.


 
  
  


soundsgoodtome said:


> I just tried it on my cell phone and iem. Should I be using quality equipment to properly do the test?


 
  
  


tman5293 said:


> I just redid that hearing test with the HD 650 and I can hear everything below 18.8K. That's pretty darn good considering that 20K is supposed to be the very top end for humans.


 
  
  
 I did the test from http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php I could feel the drop from 22 to 21, 21 to 20 and then I started to hear it at 19khz ... I should have used my w1000x but let my dt 880 on anyways [they are both equally bright btw] 
  
 Anyways, any one think these are powerufl enough to maybe drive a HE 500 on a super tight budget?


----------



## sling5s

Pure speculation but guessing from Purrin's preference (fast, transparent on the aggressive side...this too is speculation), I think the Vali is a hyper detailed (transparent) amp that is not bright but slightly on the aggressive side of neutral.  I know Purrin hates the Meridian Explorer but I personally like it (the revised model) so I want to try the Vali because it's characteristics will work well with the LCD-2 (rev.1) or any slightly dark headphones but unless you're preference is like Purrin's I would not try it out with a HD800 or any headphone slightly north of neutral.


----------



## Makiah S

sling5s said:


> Pure speculation but guessing from Purrin's preference (fast, transparent on the aggressive side...this too is speculation), I think the Vali is a hyper detailed (transparent) amp that is not bright but slightly on the aggressive side of neutral.  I know Purrin hates the Meridian Explorer but I personally like it (the revised model) so I want to try the Vali because it's characteristics will work well with the LCD-2 (rev.1) or any slightly dark headphones but unless you're preference is like Purrin's I would not try it out with a HD800 or any headphone slightly north of neutral.


 
 how ever agreesive it might be it's still a hybrid tube, tubes=smooth. Hopefully will have a smooth yet detailed mid section


----------



## Barry S

I hear the Vali 2 will address the glare issue with the HD800 and have a 17% reduction in tube microphonics.


----------



## sling5s

barry s said:


> I hear the Vali 2 will address the glare issue with the HD800 and have a 17% reduction in tube microphonics.


 
 If they make it work with low impedance or sensitive IEM, even better.


----------



## Barry S

sling5s said:


> If they make it work with low impedance or sensitive IEM, even better.




You'll have to wait for the statement uberVali, I'm afraid.


----------



## sling5s

barry s said:


> You'll have to wait for the statement uberVali, I'm afraid.


 





 
 Maybe this will be the amp for me.  My 1500th post.  And it only took me 7 years.


----------



## purrin

sling5s said:


> Pure speculation but guessing from Purrin's preference _*(fast, transparent on the aggressive side...this too is speculation)*_, I think the Vali is a hyper detailed (transparent) amp that is not bright but slightly on the aggressive side of neutral.  I know Purrin hates the Meridian Explorer but I personally like it (the revised model) so I want to try the Vali because it's characteristics will work well with the LCD-2 (rev.1) or any slightly dark headphones but unless you're preference is like Purrin's I would not try it out with a HD800 or any headphone slightly north of neutral.


 
  
 That's probably fair to say.
  
 Even with the Meridian Explorer v1 as a DAC (bypassing the 45 ohm output Z which did have a detrimental effect on the HE-500 and UERM), I personally felt the ME DAC sounded too laid back, too slow, too much blunted attacks, and insufficiently detailed for my tastes. The Schiit house sound is generally opposite from that.
  
 On the aggressive side - meaning it's not going to hold anything back, as in cymbal crashes, dynamics, attack, silbilance on the recording, etc. Yet at the same time, the Vali manages to do this without sounding antiseptic or clinical. The treble has sharp attack, but it's not edgy, etched, glaring, nor splashy.


----------



## Makiah S

sling5s said:


> If they make it work with low impedance or sensitive IEM, even better.


 
  
  


barry s said:


> You'll have to wait for the statement uberVali, I'm afraid.


 
  
  


purrin said:


> That's probably fair to say.
> 
> Even with the Meridian Explorer v1 as a DAC (bypassing the 45 ohm output Z which did have a detrimental effect on the HE-500 and UERM), I personally felt the ME DAC was too laid back, too slow, had slightly blunted attacks, and was insufficiently detailed for my tastes. The Schiit house sound is generally opposite from that.
> 
> On the aggressive side - meaning it's not going to hold anything back, as in cymbal crashes, dynamics, attack, silbilance on the recording, etc. Yet at the same time, the Vali manages to do this without sounding antiseptic or clinical. The treble has sharp attack, but it's not edgy, etched, glaring, nor splashy.


 
  
 hmm an Uber Upgrade Vali... would kinda make it in the $200 price range would it not... either way if they do a low impedance senstive headphone vairiant BEFORE juanary I'll bite. Secomd week of junary and I'l getting my w1000x recable! And fully balanced


----------



## sling5s

purrin said:


> That's probably fair to say.
> 
> Even with the Meridian Explorer v1 as a DAC (bypassing the 45 ohm output Z which did have a detrimental effect on the HE-500 and UERM), I personally felt the ME DAC was too laid back, too slow, had slightly blunted attacks, and was insufficiently detailed for my tastes. The Schiit house sound is generally opposite from that.
> 
> On the aggressive side - meaning it's not going to hold anything back, as in cymbal crashes, dynamics, attack, silbilance on the recording, etc. Yet at the same time, the Vali manages to do this without sounding antiseptic or clinical. The treble has sharp attack, but it's not edgy, etched, glaring, nor splashy.


 
 I also do think the Meridian could use a little more punch and edge. But overall, I still prefer it (like over the HRT Microstreamer).  Yeah, I had the Schiit Asgard, Lyr and Bifrost and while it performed well for the price...I just never felt comfortable with their sound.


----------



## Barry S

I don't suppose anyone has listened to the Vali with an LCD-something?


----------



## jexby

barry s said:


> I don't suppose anyone has listened to the Vali with an LCD-something?




Yes, a few of us did at RMAF since it was demoed with LCD-2 there.
See previous postings and brief impressions.


----------



## purrin

mshenay said:


> hmm an Uber Upgrade Vali... would kinda make it in the $200 price range would it not... either way if they do a low impedance senstive headphone vairiant BEFORE juanary I'll bite. Secomd week of junary and I'l getting my w1000x recable! And fully balanced


 
  
 I'll let you know if I ever run into a good cheap amp to pair with the W1000X. I owned the W1000 and W3000, and had been trying to find a good _cheap _amp which synergized especially well with them. So far nada. I did try the Vahalla hoping it would work; but with its 30 ohm output impedance, it wasn't a good match with the Audio-Technicas.


----------



## Makiah S

purrin said:


> I'll let you know if I ever run into a good cheap amp to pair with the W1000X. I owned the W1000 and W3000, and had been trying to find a good _cheap _amp which synergized especially well with them. So far nada. I did try the Vahalla hoping it would work; but with its 30 ohm output impedance, it wasn't a good match with the Audio-Technicas.


 
 Yea I know you tried them both... actually my pb1 cost me about $60 and it sounds very nice, the modded w1000x hm801 and pb1 are a nice combo. I actually had the dynamx slighty over the very bottoms of the bass ports, which removed a hint of bass, but it also wiped out a lot of the resonnace... there's only a smidge left... that said it pairs nice with the darker sound of the hm801 and the upper mid boost of the pb1. THe result is a very nice set of headphones! Mucxh more delicate and dynamic than the w1000x ever was on the AGD NFB 10ES2 or the Matrix M Stage n oDac the NFB being to cold and the oDac MStage to warm


----------



## Taowolf51

barry s said:


> You'll have to wait for the statement uberVali, I'm afraid.


 
  
An upgraded Vali would actually be something interesting to see from Schiit, especially if it becomes a popular little amp. Though I do fear that the heart of the amp (those tubes) can't really be fixed.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> how ever agreesive it might be it's still a hybrid tube, tubes=smooth. Hopefully will have a smooth yet detailed mid section


 
  
 Well, this is where I start to wonder. I never knew how much changing out tubes would change the character of an amp until I tried it (e.g., a Telefunken vs a Mullard). So personally, having a tube amp that I can't change the tubes in, makes me wonder.
  
 I have learned from my Bravo exercise that I like to fidget with tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'd be sooooo tempted to pop the cover off and see ... I would probably break something. Or void a warranty.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> Well, this is where I start to wonder. I never knew how much changing out tubes would change the character of an amp until I tried it (e.g., a Telefunken vs a Mullard). So personally, having a tube amp that I can't change the tubes in, makes me wonder.
> 
> I have learned from my Bravo exercise that I like to fidget with tubes
> 
> ...


 
 Ofc take what I said with a grain of salt, by smooth I mean all tubes operate the same way right, so all of them add those extra 2nd harmonics, still there are ofc extreme's within the category of "smooth" some overly smooth and others very minminally smooth.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> Ofc take what I said with a grain of salt, by smooth I mean all tubes operate the same way right, so all of them add those extra 2nd harmonics, still there are ofc extreme's within the category of "smooth" some overly smooth and others very minminally smooth.


 
  
 I understand bro, and I agree. Not disagreeing with what you said. I'm just remarking on the feature of an un-changeable tube.
  
 Even with my old ears, my cheap gear, and my relatively limited experience, I think I'm forever spoiled by amps with changeable tubes


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> I understand bro, and I agree. Not disagreeing with what you said. I'm just remarking on the feature of an un-changeable tube.
> 
> Even with my old ears, my cheap gear, and my relatively limited experience, I think I'm forever spoiled by amps with changeable tubes


 
 Oh yea it is fun, I enjoyed swappin tubes in my INdeed G3 and I'm looking at getting a LD MK VI+ in the future... which will need a series of $50-$200 pairs of Driver tubes to roll in... so yea my wallet isn't speaking to me atm xD


----------



## Sony Slave

Does anyone know how this amp compares to the Little Dot 1+? To me it is not aggressive enough for my taste, I will go for the Vali if the Magni is too bright for me.


----------



## satwilson

sling5s said:


> If they make it work with low impedance or sensitive IEM, even better.


 

 Have you read anything on this post???? Low impedance, sensitive IEM, NO GO


----------



## sling5s

satwilson said:


> Have you read anything on this post???? Low impedance, sensitive IEM, NO GO


 
 I was referring to another post about or speculations to future revisions to Vali.  I think you missed it.


----------



## dBel84

Seems Broskie liked it too 
  


> *Best Bargain*
> The best audio bargain was truly inexpensive, at only $119. First let me say that I love everything about Schiit—their products, their prices, their sonics, everything but their name. "Aurous" would far more suitable. But Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat are far too ironic to ever adopt such a name. A pity really, as many will overlook Schiit's amazingly fine and amazingly sanely-priced products. Well, it's their loss. In the Can Jam room of the RMAF, where headphones and headphone amplifiers are found, Schiit displayed at their booth a new hybrid headphone amplifier that used a pencil tube as its input stage and a solid-state buffer output stage. Apparently, this little wonder is so new that it hasn't shown up on their web page yet. It looks much like their Magni headphone amplifier and it sounds fabulous, with a jaunty, buoyant, and lively sound. Even if you already own a $2,000 headphone amplifier, this little gem is worth buying. Place it on your computer desk or next to your bed and live a happier life.


----------



## Transformatron

Should I go with the Magni or Vali for Fidelio X1/HE-300? My budget is pretty firm at $150 or less.


----------



## purrin

transformatron said:


> Should I go with the Magni or Vali for Fidelio X1/HE-300? My budget is pretty firm at $150 or less.


 
  
 I think the HE-300 has similar sensitivity to the HE-400. Go for the Vali. The Fidelio X1 I know nothing about.
  


satwilson said:


> Have you read anything on this post???? Low impedance, sensitive IEM, NO GO


 
  

Low impedance > ~35 ohms is probably OK if the impedance curve is flat. I had excellent results with HE-400 (37 ohms) and Paradox (50 ohms). The HE-500s were good too, but a bit soft on the bass.
Super low impedance, e.g. UERM 16 ohms nominal with screwy impedance curve = definitely bad. The frequency response will get messed up.
Sensitive headphones / IEMs = bad. You will hear noise.
  


barry s said:


> I hear the Vali 2 will address the glare issue with the HD800 and have a 17% reduction in tube microphonics.


  


 Last I heard, Schiit is working on damper thingies for production. Don't call me on it though. You guys have to remember I still have a pre-production unit.


----------



## UmustBKidn

purrin said:


> ...
> Last I heard, Schiit is working on damper thingies for production. Don't call me on it though. You guys have to remember I still have a pre-production unit.


 
  
 A small micro-tube hybrid I once saw on DIY audio used rubber grommets to wrap the tubes. The author claimed that eliminated the microphonics.
  
 I never did pick one of those up, and I can't seem to find that thread any more. It was a place in Australia that packaged the kit.


----------



## x838nwy

umustbkidn said:


> A small micro-tube hybrid I once saw on DIY audio used rubber grommets to wrap the tubes. The author claimed that eliminated the microphonics.
> 
> I never did pick one of those up, and I can't seem to find that thread any more. It was a place in Australia that packaged the kit.




I think the rubber bands can dampen the vibration of the outer glass tube which only solves one part of the problem. The internal parts may still vibrate.


----------



## SMG52

purrin said:


> I think the HE-300 has similar sensitivity to the HE-400. Go for the Vali. The Fidelio X1 I know nothing about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Something like this maybe, but even smaller.....?
  
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/midfi.htm


----------



## atbglenn

This piece of Schiit is on my radar!  Can't wait to hear more impressions once released


----------



## tdockweiler

Wonder if it's a good match with the Q701. Should be OK.
 I actually want to try another Beyerdynamic headphone after trying the T90. Hopefully something with pads that are just as deep. T90 is kind of weird though.
 Maybe the Vali is enough to make me love a Beyerdynamic headphone?
 I think their DT-235 is a hidden gem though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 You know it's funny that I once had a DT-990 for 3 years back when I was clueless and never realized it was considered bassy. Must have been my weak amp I had back then.
 I used a K701 and DT-990 for years and nothing else. Bizzare combination.


----------



## Jobobee

I think I might've chosen my next amp....


----------



## Transformatron

I'm pretty excited to get the Modi/Vali and maybe some HE-400s as "my son's Christmas present" hopefully my wife buys that excuse.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Good plan. Got to stay a step ahead.


----------



## genclaymore

transformatron said:


> I'm pretty excited to get the Modi/Vali and maybe some HE-400s as "my son's Christmas present" hopefully my wife buys that excuse.


 

 Then actually make you give it to him, instead of you quietly give it to your self.


----------



## BournePerfect

My lemonade stand business really took off the past couple of hours-so I'm all in! 2 weeks, right?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## UmustBKidn

tdockweiler said:


> Wonder if it's a good match with the Q701. Should be OK.
> I actually want to try another Beyerdynamic headphone after trying the T90. Hopefully something with pads that are just as deep. T90 is kind of weird though.
> Maybe the Vali is enough to make me love a Beyerdynamic headphone?
> I think their DT-235 is a hidden gem though
> ...


 
  
 I love my DT770's. I know some consider them almost basshead cans, but frankly, I think they're awesome. I really like hearing good bass response. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My Magni drives them just fine, perhaps the Vali would too.


----------



## UmustBKidn

transformatron said:


> I'm pretty excited to get the Modi/Vali and maybe some HE-400s as "my son's Christmas present" hopefully my wife buys that excuse.


 
  
 In my experience, if you buy her something of equal or greater value, and get her to open her present first, she'll be too distracted to care. Much.


----------



## Makiah S

I think I might try to find a SE Impedance adapter, and try the Vali with my w1000x... any one know where I can find one? I considered the idea before as it doesn't seem impossible but until another head fi'r mentioned it I didn't consider pursueing it


----------



## evilhippie

I've bought a few 6.3 to 3.5mm impedence adapters from this ebay seller:
  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281188408675
  
 They ship out pretty quickly and the adapters are of good quality, the only thing is that I don't believe they make a 6.3 -> 6.3 adapter, so you might have to use yet another adapter.  Might as well ask them if they can do 6.3 -> 6.3... I'd be interested as well, since stacks of adapter can get a bit unwieldy. 
  
 These are also nice but cost almost double.  The seller offers more impedance choices and the quality is slightly better:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IMPEDANCE-RESISTANCE-ADAPTOR-3-5MM-6-35MM-PLUG-/300453295797


----------



## wes008

umustbkidn said:


> I love my DT770's. I know some consider them almost basshead cans, but frankly, I think they're awesome. I really like hearing good bass response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think you can definitely consider them basshead cans.  While the bass is only about 5dB above the midrange (On the higher impedances), they lend themselves to some great bass performance.  The sound, bass, midrange, and treble, is all-consuming within those spacious but closed cups.  I actually really miss them now :'( I'd love to hear them off of the Vali


----------



## satwilson

sling5s said:


> I was referring to another post about or speculations to future revisions to Vali.  I think you missed it.


 

 Sorry, my bad.


----------



## Makiah S

evilhippie said:


> I've bought a few 6.3 to 3.5mm impedence adapters from this ebay seller:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281188408675
> 
> ...


 
 seeing as the mk8 was degisned to drive things like the K1000 and ortho's... I think I will end up getting the Vali and a adapter, I have a small extenision I use with my 3.5mm to 6.5mm adapter.


----------



## MickeyVee

Whoa Purrin.. are you saying that the Vali from an amp perceptive is better than the WA7 amp?  I'm already sold on trying the Vali (from your comments and others) and will set it up with the WA7 DAC and compare the two.  Will also try it with the DragonFly which should be its end state for a second setup.  Should be interesting. Comments on Vali versus WA7 amp? Would like to hear your impressions.
  
 Quote:


purrin said:


> Maybe Soloist, but different sound. HA160, nope. WA3, nope. WA6 (non-SE), nope. WA7, certainly not.


----------



## Anavel0

Did we ever get a firm (or maybe not so firm) date from the Schiit guys? I've got some spare cash and it's burning a whole in my pocket.


----------



## mvrk10256

anavel0 said:


> Did we ever get a firm (or maybe not so firm) date from the Schiit guys? I've got some spare cash and it's burning a whole in my pocket.


 
 This.


----------



## MickeyVee

Me too.. just sold a cable, enough in my PayPal account to cover off the Vali.. I think Jason said 2-3 weeks. I'm ready whenever Schiit is... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


anavel0 said:


> Did we ever get a firm (or maybe not so firm) date from the Schiit guys? I've got some spare cash and it's burning a whole in my pocket.


----------



## HPiper

Do they have anything up on their website about this amp yet?


----------



## jexby

hpiper said:


> Do they have anything up on their website about this amp yet?




Seriously?
Because google can't get you to their site, or your ISP exclusively allows access only to head-fi?
Go. Look.

I re-load the Schiit site daily.


----------



## x838nwy

jexby said:


> Seriously?
> Because google can't get you to their site, or your ISP exclusively allows access only to head-fi?
> Go. Look.
> 
> I re-load the Schiit site daily.


 
  
 More like hourly for me 
  
 Anyway, didn't someone get a call from their credit card company for charging their card to *Schiit* Audio or something? Some corporate systems might go over-board and block it or something.


----------



## RJ58

Just bought a Magni/Modi stack last week (need to pick them up) for my (also recently purchased) Beyerdynamic DT880s (600ohm), and now this comes along...


----------



## tdockweiler

Vali was on my radar until I heard the K712. I might save up for that instead.
  
 I hope nobody says the K712 or Q701 is great with the Vali or i'm in trouble..


----------



## x838nwy

tdockweiler said:


> Vali was on my radar until I heard the K712. I might save up for that instead.
> 
> I hope nobody says the K712 or Q701 is great with the Vali or i'm in trouble..


 
  
I believe purrin did. Sorry.
 It seems no-one has. Weird.


----------



## manbear

Do we know any basic specs such as power output and gain level yet? Apologies if I missed it in this thread. I know the output impedance is known though.


----------



## wes008

manbear said:


> Do we know any basic specs such as power output and gain level yet? Apologies if I missed it in this thread. I know the output impedance is known though.


 
 We don't know those yet, although expect the output and gain to be high as eff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This was clearly meant to be a tiny amp to drive big headphones.


----------



## ethan7000

manbear said:


> Do we know any basic specs such as power output and gain level yet? Apologies if I missed it in this thread. I know the output impedance is known though.


 
 Earlier posts indicate 650mW @ 32ohms, or ~ half the power of the Magni


----------



## RJ58

Once these start shipping, it would be great to see a Magni/Modi vs. Vali/Modi comparison for the 600ohm dt880s (maybe see how it compares relative to Asgard 2/Valhalla/Lyr as well).


----------



## tdockweiler

ethan7000 said:


> Earlier posts indicate 650mW @ 32ohms, or ~ half the power of the Magni


 
  
 Unacceptable!
  
 More Jigawatts = better sound. That's my general rule. All amps should weigh at least 5 lbs for best sound quality too.
  
 LOL I could do an O2/Modi vs Vali/Modi review just to annoy everyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'd probably be repeating things over and over again in my notes...


----------



## Clemmaster

ethan7000 said:


> Earlier posts indicate 650mW @ 32ohms, or ~ half the power of the Magni


 
  
 Half the power but we're talking about "valve power" (with soft clipping) here, so plenty of headroom


----------



## captslow

tdockweiler said:


> Unacceptable!
> 
> More Jigawatts = better sound. That's my general rule. All amps should weigh at least 5 lbs for best sound quality too.
> 
> ...


 
 1.27 Jigawatts.... How could I have been so carless!


----------



## ethan7000

captslow said:


> 1.27 Jigawatts.... How could I have been so carless!



1.21!!


----------



## tdockweiler

ethan7000 said:


> 1.21!!


 
  
 That should be enough for the HE-500 but not the HE-6 based on my experience.
  
 NOTE: Source was a coby 128mb mp3 player


----------



## ethan7000

tdockweiler said:


> That should be enough for the HE-500 but not the HE-6 based on my experience.
> 
> NOTE: Source was a coby 128mb mp3 player



I think purrin said he liked it with the 500


----------



## Llloyd

for HP amps priced around 100 bucks, power is usually not a large factor with the he-500. I would take quality over quantity with cheaper amps. It's at this price point where design and implementation play a huge part. I think the vali seems to be a big success here in keeping price down while still (supposedly) having great sound with mediocre control over the he-500 which is a tough headphone to control especially at a lower price point. Seems as if the vali would be quite nice with the he-500 for the price. Real quality power kicks in at the higher price points from my experience. I never found raw, cheap power to have such a huge impact.  From what I've read thus far it sounds like the two would be a good match for most people.


----------



## imackler

Can someone help me out? Is there a target headphone type for this amp? Is it more a 300 ohm HD6**, a lower ohm AKG, or for the planar dynamics? I'm not asking what it will work with but if anyone knows what Schiit has in mind for this amp. I've followed this thread but am not quite sure of the answer!


----------



## MattTCG

This is not a technical answer but my own impression from reading much of this thread. 
  
 1. This amp will work best with moderate to hard to drive hp's. Starting with the hd6xx and up to something like the he500. I don't think that you'll drive the he-4 or he-6 though.
  
 2. This is not the amp for sensitive hp's. Most hp's that would sound fine from an ipod would probably exhibit noise with the vali. 
  
 Just my take...


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm tempted to start a *Vali Order Page UP!!! *thread-just for Schiit's sake. I'm bored.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## leesure

Lookee what just arrived in time for the Philly Meet.


----------



## ejwiles

Damn!  How'd you get that?  Is Schiit still sending out pre-production units, and if so, how do I sign up?


----------



## leesure

ejwiles said:


> Damn!  How'd you get that?  Is Schiit still sending out pre-production units, and if so, how do I sign up?




I do all of Schiit's photography AND I'm hosting a head-Fi meet at my studio tomorrow. Jason hooked me up.


----------



## jexby

leesure said:


> I do all of Schiit's photography AND I'm hosting a head-Fi meet at my studio tomorrow. Jason hooked me up.


 
  
 Having heard the Vali at RMAF, all I want to know if Jason or other Schiitsters are at your meet tomorrow:
 WHEN does the Vali order page go live on their web site?
  
 I'll worry about a ship date afterwards.


----------



## purrin

ethan7000 said:


> I think purrin said he liked it with the 500


 
  
 Initially I thought the HE-500 may have sounded a bit soft with the Vali, but I now take that back after comparing with the Mjolnir. The HE-500 is excellent from the Vali. It was initially hard for me to compare because the HE-500's cups snapped from the headband in a catastrophic failure; and I had to create a makeshift headband from packing tape (it didn't really work well). I've since been able to transplant the HE-500 cups onto my HE-400 headband and do a more proper evaluation of the HE-500 with the Vali.


----------



## jexby

purrin said:


> Initially I thought the HE-500 may have sounded a bit soft with the Vali, but I now take that back after comparing with the Mjolnir. The HE-500 is excellent from the Vali. It was initially hard for me to compare because the HE-500's cups snapped from the headband in a catastrophic failure; and I had to create a makeshift headband from packing tape (it didn't really work well). I've since been able to transplant the HE-500 cups onto my HE-400 headband and do a more proper evaluation of the HE-500 with the Vali.


 
  
 you are killing me with these raves!
 with my HE-500 (and soon jerg mod pads) and HD600, do you really expect me/us to buy 2 Vali each? (home and work)





 reloading the Schiit order page now just in case November comes early....
 or just send me your Vali.  Obviously you are almost finished evaluating it..... ha!


----------



## M-13

Vali + LCD-X = End Game?
  
 that thought just occured me... if both these hyped products live up to their standards...


----------



## Headzone

Is the Vali good match with AKG K240's? 55ohm ver


----------



## Taowolf51

leesure said:


> I do all of Schiit's photography AND I'm hosting a head-Fi meet at my studio tomorrow. Jason hooked me up.


 
  
 Wait, you do? That's a cool gig!
  
 Only an hour and a half to Schiiti goodness!


----------



## darinf

Purrin will have his Vali for demo at the San Diego meet next weekend, 11/2:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676945/2nd-annual-san-diego-head-fi-meet-saturday-november-2nd-2013
  
 I think LFF might be bringing a Vali too.
  
 At the meet you will be able to compare it with the Cavalli LAu too. Then you can hear for yourself how a $119 amp sounds next to a $6495 amp.


----------



## HPiper

Not to throw too big a wrench into the works, but I have to wonder how many Magni's they are going to sell once this becomes available. I am thinking not very darn many.


----------



## Sweden

hpiper said:


> Not to throw too big a wrench into the works, but I have to wonder how many Modi's they are going to sell once this becomes available. I am thinking not very darn many.


 
  
 With it's higher output impedance I'm thinking a lot of people will be cautious using it with sensitive headphones and in-ears so I can see a market for the Magni (if you are referring to the low priced amp). Some people also insist on pure solid state no matter what.
 I would be more concerned about selling the much pricier but not necessarily better options.


----------



## Aural1

I'm suprised no one mentioned this but any impressions with the LCD-3s??


----------



## ssrock64

sweden said:


> With it's higher output impedance I'm thinking a lot of people will be cautious using it with sensitive headphones and in-ears so I can see a market for the Magni (if you are referring to the low priced amp).


 
 What he said. The Magni fills the market for low-impedance, high-sensitivity cans while the Vali fills the market for mid-impedance, low-sensitivity cans. Schiit's higher offerings cover everything else as well as improving on the Magni and Vali.
  
 Of course, this is just informed speculation. I don't have a direct line to Schiit or anything like that.


----------



## genclaymore

I hope some one tries a pair of DT880 premium 600 on them at the meet and come back here and talk about it.


----------



## zackzack

What does this say about the future of Schiit hybrid amplifier?
 The one at Ragnarok price level? A bad-ass version of Lyr
 for driving difficult speakers? This is exciting news....


----------



## TMRaven

Hopefully it means a Lyr2 with the same 'lesson learned' mentality Schiit got when they made the Magni, Asgard2 and Bifrost Uber upgrade.


----------



## Anavel0

I'd love to see a Lyr 2 or something comparable to WA6SE.


----------



## jexby

tmraven said:


> Hopefully it means a Lyr2 with the same 'lesson learned' mentality Schiit got when they made the Magni, Asgard2 and Bifrost Uber upgrade.




I'll repeat what I posted a couple weeke ago:
not that this is worth much or could be "set in stone", but I emailed Jason in late Aug before I pulled the trigger on a Lyr.
my basic question was: "are they any plans for a Lyr2 as I don't want to buy a tube amp now only to have new schiit render mine last generation."
jason answer:
 "Not at the Moment".
pulled the trigger on the Lyr, got some great tubes and I've been set since with my HE-500.


----------



## TMRaven

Oh I know, it doesn't have to be at the moment, but sometime down the line-- even if it's like 1-2 years down the line.


----------



## jbarrentine

I've decided to get a Vali for Christmas...but need to match it with a new headphone. I'm considering DT880, Q701, and HD600. 
  
 Opinions? I listen to a little of everything, but tend toward pop and techno. I value detail level and sound stage.
  
 I was previously underwhelmed by the Q701 (without an amp, which was obviously the problem) but thought the detail and sound stage were amazing. I live in the deep south and can't try anything out before I buy.


----------



## rodge827

Any of the beta testers try this amp with the k701, 702, Q701 ?
  
 Drive them well?
  
 Chris


----------



## Taowolf51

I had a chance to try out the Vali at the Philly meet on Saturday. It's a nice punchy and articulate amp and I quite liked it. Is it the best amp priced under a certain amount of money? I don't have the experience to answer that, but I do know I liked it and was surprised at the quality for the price.
  
 I took the chance to try them out with a low impedance sensitive headphone, the Denon D7000 which has an impedance of a 25 ohms and a sensitivity of 108db/mW (though because of the Lawton mods it may be a bit less sensitive). The noise floor definitely wasn't as low as my M-Stage, but it wasn't loud by any means. It wasn't noticeable over normal music (I didn't try music with very quiet sections, though), and even as I turned down the volume, it never overpowered the music or caused much of a problem. It actually sounded pretty nice. I may still pick it up to get a longer trial period with it.


----------



## jexby

tmraven said:


> Oh I know, it (Lyr) doesn't have to be at the moment, but sometime down the line-- even if it's like 1-2 years down the line.


 
  
 oh yes, I would be in total agreement for that!  as long as the tube type doesn't change, I bet existing Lyr owners wouldn't mind an upgrade since the current price point certainly isn't super high.
 whereas some folks tube investments might be.  ha!


----------



## Sanlitun

anavel0 said:


> I'd love to see a Lyr 2 or something comparable to WA6SE.


 
  
 More than anything. A cleaner and more refined Lyr 2.


----------



## leesure

It was a very popular little amp at my meet on Saturday, so I didn't get to spend any time with it there...I knew I'd have some time afterwards. I will listen today and post impressions with Grado 125si, Audez'e LCD-X's and HifiMan HE-400’s. And will also compare and contrast with the Magni.


----------



## SMG52




----------



## MattTCG

I'm wondering how the Vali stacks up against the lyr?


----------



## leesure

matttcg said:


> I'm wondering how the Vali stacks up against the lyr?




In why sense?? The Vali puts out 650mW into 32 ohms. The Lyr is Ten times that. The Lyr is a tube roll-able hybrid amp designed to drive most anything. The Vali is a great little amp with a specific sound signature that outperforms its price point. 

If you're hoping for a $120 amp that beats the Lyr, keep hoping. 

That's based on about 30 minutes of listening to the Vali at RMAF & a couple of years with a Lyr at home. I'll give you more concrete impressions in a day or three.


----------



## TMRaven

Actually Purrin likes the Vali more than the Lyr.  He considers the Lyr weakest out of it, Asgard2 and Vali.


----------



## MattTCG

tmraven said:


> Actually Purrin likes the Vali more than the Lyr.  He considers the Lyr weakest out of it, Asgard2 and Vali.


 
  
 I'd be interested in reading those comments.


----------



## TMRaven

Yeah.
  
 I'm not trying to speak for the guy, but his personal impressions did help me when deciding on getting a new amp.
  
  
  


> The Lyr has a warmer tone and more low bass impact than the Vali. The Asgard 2 is not as warm as the Lyr, but it does have more solid bass and better low end extension than the Vali. I think the Lyr is the weakest of the bunch. It is one of their oldest designs, and Jason knows that I have never personally been too fond of the Lyr in absolute terms.
> 
> What headphones are you using? The choice really comes down to the Asgard 2 or Vali for me. BTW, the Asgard 2 actually sounds better in some regards to even the Mjolnir. It seems like Schiit is taking "lessons learned" from the prior generation and applying them to new generations of schiit.
> 
> But assuming you don't need the warmer tone and low-end impact, the Vali otherwise destroys the Lyr in terms of clarity, microdetail, and microdynamics, resolution, etc.. I kind of hate to say that. [UPDATE: read on concerning the warmth of the Vali...]


 
  


> Left the Vali on for an hour and just came back. Now running without any EQ at all with the Paradox. (The Paradox/Vali is sublime.) This tends to happen with tubes - the treble gets more laid back upon warm-up. I'd say the Vali is maybe touch warmer sounding than the Asgard 2 and most certainly the Magni. At $120, just buy it. You won't be sorry.


 
  
  
  
  
 I ended up getting an Asgard2 because I don't think I could stand the look of a Vali stacked on top of a Bifrost, and the hopes for a Lyr2 a long-ways down the line with the same 'lessons learned' from the Vali.


----------



## MattTCG

Hmm...well, I have the triple Schiit stack sitting on my desk right now (A2, lyr w/1968 OG tubes and uberfrost).
  
 These are my impressions ymmv.
  
 The lyr beats the A2 even on stock tubes, no contest particularly when driving orthos. The Asgard II is a fine amp for sure. I can definitely hear some linage from the mojo (where the mojo is clearly better than the A2). 
  
 I do not believe that I'm missing ANY micro details from lyr. In fact I find that it's an incredibly resolving amp and gives the best of both worlds. The real shortcoming of the lyr is that it simply outputs too much power for some hp's. The A2 is very flexible and I can drive my iem's and hd650's with aplomb, all at a great price. 
  
 At the end of the day, when I want to hear my hp's at their very best I plug into the lyr.


----------



## leesure

matttcg said:


> Hmm...well, I have the triple Schiit stack sitting on my desk right now (A2, lyr w/1968 OG tubes and uberfrost).
> 
> These are my impressions ymmv.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those impressions mirror my own on those amps.


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> Hmm...well, I have the triple Schiit stack sitting on my desk right now (A2, lyr w/1968 OG tubes and uberfrost).
> 
> These are my impressions ymmv.
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## tuna47

I agree I have had asgard 2 and like the lyr better with orthos


----------



## leesure

As promised...1st stage of the comparisons...Same sources, same headphones, Vali and Magni impressions.
  
 All auditioning done with iMac/iTunes as the source, running through USB to the Modi DAC and into the amps to Audez'e LCD-2.1's 

*The Lee Shore* (Crosby Still and Nash Box Set, ALAC, 16/44)…Vali:  great…nice imaging, miss and treble are smooth and liquid.  Very good micro detail extraction.  Magni: Good left to right imaging…less depth.  Highs are a little grainy, but not bad.  Mids a little less lush…maybe a bit recessed.    Preferred the Vali.

*IGY* (Donald Fagen The Nightfly, ALAC, 24/48)…Vali: Loads of air. Good snare attack, but not wow.  Very digital sounding recording rendered very listenable.  good space between instruments and Fagen's voice.  Lots of shimmer, but not bright.  Magni:  Definitely brighter.  Voice blends into the BG more.  Better bass impact and control. Preferred the Vali on this track.

*Lofty's Roach Soufflé *(Harry Connick Jr. Tro, Lofty's Roach Soufflé, ALAC, 16/44)…Vali: Good presence.  Piano feels a little thin.  Another sample of good imaging.  Magni:  Again better and more impactful bass.  The bottom register of the piano is a little more fleshed out. The cymbals a a little brighter.  preferred the Magni on this track. 

*Church* (Lyle Lovett, Joshua Judges Ruth, ALAC, 16/44)…Vali: A little more three blobby (left center right imaging, with little in between) than the RWA, but still nice and wide.  This notably sibilant recording was nicely controlled on top. The complicated passages near the end were rendered with good detail…tho not as good as some of the amps with more vice-like control and speed.  Magni:  Very 3 blobby.  The hand claps that should span the sound stage are only coming from the extremes.  Very sibilant…that's in the recording, but the Magni does nothing to help tame it.  Preferred the Vali

*Couldn't Stand the Weather* (Stevie ray Vaughn Greatest Hits ALAC, 24/96)…Vali: Great dynamics!  650mW, you say?  The opening snare attack in the intro is a kick in the head!  Super fast.  Achilles heel the bass perhaps.  The baseline is muddy.  Magni:  As good as the attack was with the Vali, it was better with the Magni.  The snare is intense!  The baseline is less prevalent, but better controlled…less bloat.  Preferred the Magni.

*Battle w/o Honor or Humility* (Tomoyasu Hotel, Electric Samurai, 256k iTunes MP3)…Vali: Struggles with the really loud and complicated sections at high volume.  The horns sound a little thin.  Bass is slow.  Magni: Definitely more control in complicated patterns. Tho it still feels like it's running a little short of current with the LCD-2's on very dynamic passages.  I get a feeling like it's clipping just a little…might be the lower bit rate recording.  Preferred the Magni…but neither one seemed to blow me away.

*Lotus Flower* (RadioHead, The King of Limbs, 320k MP3 from their site)…It's not the whole bass region…just the really deep bottom.  The upper base intro was rendered very well with nice control, but the really deep stuff feels a little bloated and slow.  Very tubey. Magni:  Bass is better, but the treble is way bright.  The cymbals are like knives.  I can live with the slow bass on this track to get the smoother highs.  Preferred the Vali

*Bloom* (Radiohead, TKOL Remixes, 320k MP3 from their site)…Vali: The super deep electronic bass is there, but slow.  Great job delving to the 20-30hz area…just don't have the control to keep it super tight.  Still impressive head vibrating experience.  Magni:  Definitely less bass, but much more controlled…probably just feels like less because of the lack of bloat…but on this track I like it…I want MOAR boom boom!  Preferred the Vali.

 In the end I found the Magni to be a more accurate amp with a little grain in the highs and good control over the bass…but perhaps a little lean there as well.  The Vali was more 'Euphonic' with smoother highs, a more warm and liquid midrange and deep but bloated and slow bass.  
  
 I wish these were so inexpensive that I could have both so I could listen to the one I preferred for different types of music.  
  
 WAIT!  They ARE!!


----------



## MrTechAgent

Can't wait anymore ......I am confused between getting another headphone or getting a tube ?
 Probably will get another headphone and then this , for gods sake its 100 bucks


----------



## leesure




----------



## DemonFox

I wonder how this will compare other smaller tube amps like the Aune T1, EF2A from Hifiman and others. And I may have missed this but are there any pictures of the unit yet? 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## manbear

demonfox said:


> And I may have missed this but are there any pictures of the unit yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 

 Look at the post right above you. It's in there.


----------



## DemonFox

Never mind, didn't get to the last post of this thread lol 
  
 So looks just like the Magni just a different flavor of sound. Cool 
  
 Good job Jason. You and your Schiit team are rocking it!
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Kamakahah

leesure said:


>




OMG it's a Schiit Big Mac. I must have.




demonfox said:


> I wonder how this will compare other smaller tube amps like the Aune T1, EF2A from Hifiman and others. And I may have missed this but are there any pictures of the unit yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Curious as well, though the Aune is actually a tube dac with a SS amp, but still interested.


----------



## ethan7000

demonfox said:


> Never mind, didn't get to the last post of this thread lol
> 
> So looks just like the Magni just a different flavor of sound. Cool
> 
> ...


 

 Vali isn't meant for high sensitivity cans like our TH600's (noise floor/output impedance)...so the T1 is still in play


----------



## 62ohm

Is it considered stupid if I get the Vali, having owned the Magni? I've been eyeing on the Lyr, but it seems that the Vali can deliver most of what the Lyr is capable of with a quarter of the price.


----------



## sling5s

leesure said:


> As promised...1st stage of the comparisons...Same sources, same headphones, Vali and Magni impressions.
> 
> All auditioning done with iMac/iTunes as the source, running through USB to the Modi DAC and into the amps to Audez'e LCD-2.1's
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you. That's puts the Vali in perspective, less hype.


----------



## eke2k6

Thanks for the comparison. It really helps put things into perspective.


----------



## DemonFox

ethan7000 said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > Never mind, didn't get to the last post of this thread lol
> ...


 
  
  
 Good point... I still may have to try this later on and for $119 why the hell not!! 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## ethan7000

demonfox said:


> Good point... I still may have to try this later on and for $119 why the hell not!!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 
 Me too, might pick one up with an Alpha Dog...


----------



## imackler

ethan7000 said:


> Me too, might pick one up with an Alpha Dog...


 
 Has anyone heard this combo yet at a show? Probably too early, right?


----------



## ethan7000

imackler said:


> Has anyone heard this combo yet at a show? Probably too early, right?


 
 Will have to search through this thread - I think Purrin reported that the Vali was a great pairing with another T50RP mod (Thunderpants maybe?). For me, I wanna own some schiit and this is a nice entry point.


----------



## genclaymore

If the Vali works with the DT880 premium 600, i might get it, but i was hoping tried it with them first.


----------



## Sony Slave

I wonder how the Valo would pair with the Shure SRH840's or 940's, anyone have any thoughts?
 Not to long ago, someone said the the Denons sounded fine on the Vali.


----------



## zackzack

Prediction of upcoming models/updates:
  
 Valhalla ver 2.0
 Lyr ver 2.0
  
 Mjolnir w/ single ended output
  
 Speaker amplifier with hybrid tube/SS config
 Will we see Schiit version of this :
  

 Tubes in SS system


----------



## Defiant00

zackzack said:


> Prediction of upcoming models/updates:
> 
> Valhalla ver 2.0
> Lyr ver 2.0
> ...


 
  
 I'd think the new rollable Valhalla would count as a v2.
 Lyr I'd expect at some point.
 SE Mjolnir...from everything I've seen mentioned this'll probably never happen. (Or looking at it another way, it already is and it's called the Ragnarok)
 Jason's already basically confirmed speaker amps. No specific configurations were mentioned, but I imagine there will be options.


----------



## zackzack

defiant00 said:


> I'd think the new rollable Valhalla would count as a v2.
> Lyr I'd expect at some point.
> SE Mjolnir...from everything I've seen mentioned this'll probably never happen. (Or looking at it another way, it already is and it's called the Ragnarok)


 
  
 Ragnarok is an over specified beast. I probably buy one but for the other room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 There is my desktop PC and my smaller listening  area with headphones and
 reasonably sized amplifiers. I love my Gungnir, I love the size of the Gungnir/Mjolnir
 combo stacked up on top of each other. I have four headphones and all are
 single ended. No plan to make them balanced..yet.


----------



## skyline315

leesure, you've been very generous with your time and comparisons.  Thank you.
  
 I doubt you have one handy, but just in case, do you have any idea how the Vali would stack up to the Asgard 1?


----------



## leesure

skyline315 said:


> leesure, you've been very generous with your time and comparisons.  Thank you.
> 
> I doubt you have one handy, but just in case, do you have any idea how the Vali would stack up to the Asgard 1?




I don't. I will try it vs the Lyr a bit later this week, tho.


----------



## jexby

leesure said:


> I don't. I will try it vs the Lyr a bit later this week, tho.


 
  
 uh oh.
 the fate of my Lyr and spare tubes on the shelf now rest in your hands...er... ears.


----------



## 62ohm

leesure said:


> I don't. I will try it vs the Lyr a bit later this week, tho.


 
  
 Waiting forward for your impression here


----------



## leesure

FWIW, it will either be tomorrow night or Friday night that I'll have time to listen.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

When does Schiit start taking orders?


----------



## Phishin Phool

I had been going around and around between O2, Magni and Asgard2 as each has it's own pluses and minuses for me and had finally decided on Asgard2 but after finding out about the vali and reading this thread I am now doing Magni/Val/Modi stack- No brainer for me I think. My main listening room has a Project Sunrise 2 (another fine, affordable amp from an American company) tube amp or my Onkyo Tx-NR 905 AVR so this would be for my den/computer area.
I don't see any problem powering the following cans I am/will be using Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250, Pioneer SE A-1000, Modded Fostex t50rp and eventually a HD600. I realize probably won't work well with AT M50's due to low impedancde and high sensitivity but those are my on-the-go cans for phone use. I hope supply meets demnad when shiping starts


----------



## 62ohm

phishin phool said:


> I had been going around and around between O2, Magni and Asgard2 as each has it's own pluses and minuses for me and had finally decided on Asgard2 but after finding out about the vali and reading this thread I am now doing Magni/Val/Modi stack- No brainer for me I think. My main listening room has a Project Sunrise 2 (another fine, affordable amp from an American company) tube amp or my Onkyo Tx-NR 905 AVR so this would be for my den/computer area.
> I don't see any problem powering the following cans I am/will be using Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250, Pioneer SE A-1000, Modded Fostex t50rp and eventually a HD600. I realize probably won't work well with AT M50's due to low impedancde and high sensitivity but those are my on-the-go cans for phone use. I hope supply meets demnad when shiping starts


 
  
 So you choose the Vali & Modi over Asgard 2....interesting
  
 I hope the pricing of the Vali wouldn't be outrageous when it hits NZ, triple schiit stack seems like a way to go


----------



## NZheadcase

There are ways around that. I regularly get stuff from the US via NZpost, instead of going the local retailer route. Even with international shipping, it still works out cheaper. send me a pm if you like.


----------



## satwilson

jbarrentine said:


> I've decided to get a Vali for Christmas...but need to match it with a new headphone. I'm considering DT880, Q701, and HD600.
> 
> Opinions? I listen to a little of everything, but tend toward pop and techno. I value detail level and sound stage.
> 
> I was previously underwhelmed by the Q701 (without an amp, which was obviously the problem) but thought the detail and sound stage were amazing. I live in the deep south and can't try anything out before I buy.


 

 This is not on your list but Purrin who has had a lot to say about this amp and many headphones thinks the modded T50RP's such as the Paradox with the Vali are "sublime". Many folks who own the "modded" T50RP's have put their HDXXX, DTXXX, etc on the back burner. My personal favorite given the price is the ZMF modded T50RP's, $200, some think almost as good as the LCD-2 for a fraction of the price. Just my 2 cents, like the Vali, an incredible value and SQ. There is a lot of info about the T50RP's here on HeadFi.


----------



## satwilson

leesure said:


> As promised...1st stage of the comparisons...Same sources, same headphones, Vali and Magni impressions.
> 
> All auditioning done with iMac/iTunes as the source, running through USB to the Modi DAC and into the amps to Audez'e LCD-2.1's
> 
> ...


 

 Really enjoyed your evaluation here. As someone who also has the AGD NFB-12( my main rig with modded T50RP'S), how would you compare the Magni/Modi stack to the NFB-12? Purrin thinks the Paradox/Vali pairing to be "sublime", so as my intro to tubes I am considering my modded T50RP's and the Vali. I could use either the DAC in the NFB-12 or my ES9023 U2 DAC. Thanks, satwilson


----------



## UmustBKidn

hpiper said:


> Not to throw too big a wrench into the works, but I have to wonder how many Magni's they are going to sell once this becomes available. I am thinking not very darn many.


 
  
 I'm assuming that you've never met the rather large bunch of us who own multiple Budget-Fi amps and DACs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Personally, I see the Vali as a perfect answer to the other hybrid amps in this approximate price range. I am wishing I knew about the Vali before I went out and bought another Bravo V2.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=530333970374870&set=a.530333553708245.1073741874.169274989814105&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn1%2F620921_530333970374870_2036947176_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn2%2F9768_530333970374870_2036947176_n.jpg&size=2048%2C1367


----------



## leesure

diaboliqu3 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=530333970374870&set=a.530333553708245.1073741874.169274989814105&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn1%2F620921_530333970374870_2036947176_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn2%2F9768_530333970374870_2036947176_n.jpg&size=2048%2C1367




Someone found my Facebook page! Woot! That was my shot from CanJam. Much better photos to follow soon!


----------



## zackzack

I will wait for Lyr ver 2.0 for hybrid goodness
  

  
 Sexy beast


----------



## diaBoliQu3

leesure said:


> Someone found my Facebook page! Woot! That was my shot from CanJam. Much better photos to follow soon!


 
 Glad to know that it's you. So, I guess you had try the sexy silver right? How's the sound compared to Magni?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Still nothing when they'll take orders?  Ahhhhh schiit...


----------



## Transformatron

diaboliqu3 said:


> Glad to know that it's you. So, I guess you had try the sexy silver right? How's the sound compared to Magni?


 
 Check his post #546


----------



## tdockweiler

hawaiiancerveza said:


> Still nothing when they'll take orders?  Ahhhhh schiit...


 
  
 November 2014. Man, such a long time from now. Why do they do that!


----------



## hojomojo96

tdockweiler said:


> November 2014. Man, such a long time from now. Why do they do that!


 
 Almost sure its November 2013.


----------



## imackler

So this should be a good amp for the Alpha Dog and Mad Dog?


----------



## munchzilla

ships November... if it's not tomorrow I will be sad... ish


----------



## tdockweiler

LOL if I order it and see it they will probably cancel it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They'll be like "Oh no, not THAT guy".
  
  
 The last item I thought I'd hate turned out to be a winner (K712 Pro). Maybe that will happen with this amp.
  
 Everything says I probably would not like it, but I'm going to try it anyway. If I hate it it'll be in the for sale forum. I'll give it a good month though.
  
 I think my DJ100 will love it though despite being 38 ohm.
  
 Haven't loved any Schiit amps yet but maybe this will be the one. Already a Modi fanboy though so maybe this will be the perfect Schiit Stack.


----------



## satwilson

imackler said:


> So this should be a good amp for the Alpha Dog and Mad Dog?


 

 Purrin said it was "sublime" with his Paradox, nuff said? Got my ZMF modded T50RP'S, looking for "SUBLIME". Obviously a "balanced" Alpha needs something else,(Moljinar)!!! satwilson


----------



## EuphonicArin

Don't mean to throw the thread off track but, what do you guys think of the t50 mods?


----------



## diaBoliQu3

transformatron said:


> Check his post #546


 
 Thanks... I missed that post.


----------



## MattTCG

tdockweiler said:


> LOL if I order it and see it they will probably cancel it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't think you'll keep it, but I'll buy it from you when you tire of it.


----------



## abhinit90

Come one Schiit, release it. Need to read a lot of reviews in order to satiate my thirst and hopefully buy my first amp in the Vali and dac in the Modi :|


----------



## ssrock64

euphonicarin said:


> Don't mean to throw the thread off track but, what do you guys think of the t50 mods?


 
 Check this thread for more information than you need, and if you don't want to navigate it you can just ask your question again over there.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/452404/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow


----------



## Makiah S

I'm looking at geting a custom built 100Ohm adapter here in teh next week. Come Juanuary [assuming I'm still working at my current job] I'm totally picking the Vali up to pair with my w1000x + the adapter for some needed resistance... we shall see how it goes


----------



## mrscotchguy

mshenay said:


> I'm looking at geting a custom built 100Ohm adapter here in teh next week. Come Juanuary [assuming I'm still working at my current job] I'm totally picking the Vali up to pair with my w1000x + the adapter for some needed resistance... we shall see how it goes




Is that an attachment that plugs in between your headphone termination and the amp? I've been scouring the web searching for such a devise!


----------



## Makiah S

mrscotchguy said:


> Is that an attachment that plugs in between your headphone termination and the amp? I've been scouring the web searching for such a devise!


 
 Yea it's a Plug of sorts. There are some on eBay but I've found a ReCable MoT who's got a spare. I'm not sure 100 ohms is going to tremendously help the w1000x but sadly... I've got her hooked up to my NFB10ES2 and well I'm totally loving it actually! After a week with JUST the w1000x... the dt 880 sounds more dinstinct from it. Meaning, the issues I had with the NFB10ES2 went away after some intimate time with my w1000x <3 she sounds wonderful on the NFB 10ES2 actually!
  
 STILL I want the Vali for the sake of hearing it! Hoping to get a 300 ohm custom resistor Cord/Adaptor thingy built by Zombie X [feel free to message him ur self]


----------



## mrscotchguy

Thanks for the info! I prefer to listen at low volumes, and have discovered that the sound quality can be killed by low attenuation. My GCHA fixes that issues, but I still have a few cans that are just a smidge too sibilant for my tastes. I am curious if the adaptor would help. 

I was going to purchase this (http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383402863&sr=8-1&keywords=12+db+attenuator) for my Asgard, but was afraid it would increase the noise floor the kicks in past "1 o'clock".

Can't wait to hear everyone's impressions of this new amp!


----------



## wes008

mrscotchguy said:


> I was going to purchase this (http://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator/dp/B0006N41B0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383402863&sr=8-1&keywords=12+db+attenuator) for my Asgard, but was afraid it would increase the noise floor the kicks in past "1 o'clock".


 
 I used those for my Magni! They worked well (still couldn't help the fact that the Modi was too dam loud). For the brief period of time that I used them, however, I never had a critical session, so I have no idea just how much it affects the sound signature, but for the few times I did use them, they didn't seem to alter the sound signatures!


----------



## peter123

wes008 said:


> I used those for my Magni! They worked well (still couldn't help the fact that the Modi was too dam loud). For the brief period of time that I used them, however, I never had a critical session, so I have no idea just how much it affects the sound signature, but for the few times I did use them, they didn't seem to alter the sound signatures!




+1 

I use them with my Magni as well. Been using them for about a year by never been able to hear any difference in sq with or without them the times I've done tests.


----------



## Sekka

Would the Vali work well with a 32 Ohm, 95 Db sensitivity headphone on paper?  The output impedance seems kind of high, but how noticeable is this in practice?  I feel like this would tame the slightly metallic sound of my SoundMAGIC HP100 driven from the Magni.


----------



## x838nwy

sekka said:


> Would the Vali work well with a 32 Ohm, 95 Db sensitivity headphone on paper?  The output impedance seems kind of high, but how noticeable is this in practice?  I feel like this would tame the slightly metallic sound of my SoundMAGIC HP100 driven from the Magni.




It will "work" as in there will be music coming out of the headphones. Whether or not it works "well" is anybody's guess. To all intents and purposes, i think you'll be alright as long as you don't start plugging iem's into the Vali. The headphone impedance rule of thumb (something like x5 to x8) is a more of a guideline. Which makes it a bit a the Pirate's code...


----------



## lextek

Just sitting here drinking my coffee listening to my Crack/HD600s. Wham! Sucked right on the hype train. Can't wait to try this little Schitt. I'm kind of surprised of the pairing with the Audezes.


----------



## jbarrentine




----------



## Makiah S

jbarrentine said:


>


 
  
 Me too!


----------



## imackler

lextek said:


> Just sitting here drinking my coffee listening to my Crack/HD600s. Wham! Sucked right on the hype train. Can't wait to try this little Schitt. I'm kind of surprised of the pairing with the Audezes.


 
 On the hype train of the Crack/HD600 or the Vali and ____ ?


----------



## lextek

imackler said:


> On the hype train of the Crack/HD600 or the Vali and ____ ?




I was listening to the Crack/HD when I posted. No hype there. Wondering about Vali and HD


----------



## purrin

Hard to beat the Crack/HD6x0. No need to blow $120 out of curiosity.


----------



## jbarrentine

I'm curious as to why this little amp is supposed to be so much better than something in the same price range like the Bravo Ocean.


----------



## Makiah S

jbarrentine said:


> I'm curious as to why this little amp is supposed to be so much better than something in the same price range like the Bravo Ocean.


 
 LAWL ok let me answer that with one simple reponse 
  
 AMERICA
  
 any questions?


----------



## manbear

purrin said:


> Hard to beat the Crack/HD6x0. No need to blow $120 out of curiosity.




Does this mean that the crack is also the best under $1600?


----------



## lextek

purrin said:


> Hard to beat the Crack/HD6x0. No need to blow $120 out of curiosity.


 
 Not trying to replace the Crack.  Thought it might be nice to have a smaller bedroom rig.  Money is never blown on Head-Fi………….


----------



## munchzilla

manbear said:


> Does this mean that the crack is also the best under $1600?


 
 more like - really cool with HD6x0 under $1600!
 I didn't like it at all with a lot of headphones I tried it with.


----------



## Katun

purrin said:


> Hard to beat the Crack/HD6x0. No need to blow $120 out of curiosity.


 
  
 Have you listened to the 336C/HD6x0? Heard it compares well to the Crack.


----------



## purrin

manbear said:


> Does this mean that the crack is also the best under $1600?


 
  
 ote: 





munchzilla said:


> more like - really cool with HD6x0 under $1600!
> I didn't like it at all with a lot of headphones I tried it with.


 
  
 Yes, for headphones > 600ohms nominal output Z (which usually means Senn 600/650/800 or special Beyer 600 ohm editions), a Crack with Speedball would at or near the top of the list. Keep in mind that the Crack won't work well on orthos or most of the newer dynamics because of its 120ohm output Z; and you've got to build it yourself.


----------



## hmorneau

How that amp would compare to the Auditor with T1 and W4S DAC2?
  
 I'm curious to try amp, I may order one and see.


----------



## isendono

Hmm , what if the tube inside the vali dies? Anyway to replace?


----------



## Radioking59

^^^


jason stoddard said:


> And, finally, no rolling. The tubes are soldered in the board, with a 1-year warranty. Expected lifespan is in the 15-20K hour range, so they should last much, much longer than that. Even listening 4 hours of listening a day, every day, that's almost 10 years at 15,000


----------



## x838nwy

jbarrentine said:


>


 
  
 I'm sorry, but that's WAAAAY too in focus to be anything real.


----------



## Makiah S

x838nwy said:


> I'm sorry, but that's WAAAAY too in focus to be anything real.


 
 SHUN the non beleiver! 
  
 Just kidding.


----------



## UmustBKidn

jbarrentine said:


> I'm curious as to why this little amp is supposed to be so much better than something in the same price range like the Bravo Ocean.


 
  
 Until I hear a Vali, I wouldn't know. So far I haven't heard any of the lucky folks who got a preview model, compare it to another budget-fi amp, like the Bravo's. I am very curious though, since I'm a fan of the V2's.
  
 That being said, I personally would not buy an Ocean. You're paying for a metal chassis. Save yourself $50 bucks and buy a V2 on Amazon. Or bid on one from eBay (I got one for under $55 bucks there including shipping). For that price, they're worth it. They sound really good with pretty much any old (old meaning pre-1970's) American 12AU7, 5963, or 5814 tube (the Euro tubes are also nice but horribly pricey - and skip the Chinese or Russian tubes). Personally, I really like the replaceable tube feature. I'm a bit skeptical about a tube amp, where I can't replace the tubes.
  
 Not going to open the can of worms re: modding a Bravo, or comparing it to other hybrids. The Bravo V2's are about the cheapest hybrid amps you can buy, already assembled. No, they're not the best sounding amps (though they have a significant fan base here, including some who mod them heavily). They're just cheap. It's hard to argue with cheap.


----------



## UmustBKidn

jbarrentine said:


>


 
  
 That was funny, thank you


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> Until I hear a Vali, I wouldn't know. So far I haven't heard any of the lucky folks who got a preview model, compare it to another budget-fi amp, like the Bravo's. I am very curious though, since I'm a fan of the V2's.
> 
> That being said, I personally would not buy an Ocean. You're paying for a metal chassis. Save yourself $50 bucks and buy a V2 on Amazon. Or bid on one from eBay (I got one for under $55 bucks there including shipping). For that price, they're worth it. They sound really good with pretty much any old (old meaning pre-1970's) American 12AU7, 5963, or 5814 tube (the Euro tubes are also nice but horribly pricey - and skip the Chinese or Russian tubes). Personally, I really like the replaceable tube feature. I'm a bit skeptical about a tube amp, where I can't replace the tubes.
> 
> Not going to open the can of worms re: modding a Bravo, or comparing it to other hybrids. The Bravo V2's are about the cheapest hybrid amps you can buy, already assembled. No, they're not the best sounding amps (though they have a significant fan base here, including some who mod them heavily). They're just cheap. It's hard to argue with cheap.


 
 I will say a fully modded Bravo V2 or Indeed G3 is a force to be recockend with


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> I will say a fully modded Bravo V2 or Indeed G3 is a force to be recockend with


 
  
 From what I have read, I agree. For the roughly $30-$40 bucks it takes to fully mod one, they're still well within budget land too. I have 2 of them now, and one of them is going to go under the knife soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Would you believe, I finally got a 1957 Mullard D-getter for it? I know. I'm sick that way. LOL.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> From what I have read, I agree. For the roughly $30-$40 bucks it takes to fully mod one, they're still well within budget land too. I have 2 of them now, and one of them is going to go under the knife soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yea but it takes a little skill to do the mods!  There are guys building these sick Clear vertical Hybrid amps :O like literally they stand like 8 inches tall :O they look mad crazy cool [in clear plexi glass or clear something]


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> yea but it takes a little skill to do the mods!  There are guys building these sick Clear vertical Hybrid amps :O like literally they stand like 8 inches tall :O they look mad crazy cool [in clear plexi glass or clear something]


 
  
 Awesome. Isn't it interesting, how the whole idea of modding seems to follow budget-fi amps in general? That's one thing I'd never expect to do, on a Schiit amp. Other than maybe wanting to experiment on tube rolling a Vali.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> Awesome. Isn't it interesting, how the whole idea of modding seems to follow budget-fi amps in general? That's one thing I'd never expect to do, on a Schiit amp. Other than maybe wanting to experiment on tube rolling a Vali.


 
 indeed it is! Some one ought to sell Fully Modded Bravos! Dan does it it with the T50RP so there is a chance for some great profit and some awsome quality!


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

isendono said:


> Hmm , what if the tube inside the vali dies? Anyway to replace?



Jason already confirmed that if the tube needs to be replaced outside of warranty, you can send your amp to Schiit to get the tube replaced, for a reasonable cost.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

6088s only have 5 pins and are easy to change if you need to but have a VERY long life so I can't see why you need to. It is likely that other components may fail first at that age. These things have a long life but when I have had to change wire ended valves in the past it is a simple operation.


----------



## nkrueger

Does anyone have an idea when the Vali will go on sale?  I believe I read November, anyone have more accurate details  ?


----------



## jbarrentine

Is a high noise floor (like the Vali supposedly has) a detriment to playback of videos? I use my computer a great deal for playing back MKVs and wondered if there's audible hiss during quiet scenes in movies and tv shows? This is tremendously important to me. 
  
 I just received my T90 today and need to pair that with something cheap to tame the very slight simbilance I hear and something that will work until I can afford a much better amp like a musical fidelity m1.


----------



## Makiah S

jbarrentine said:


> Is a high noise floor (like the Vali supposedly has) a detriment to playback of videos? I use my computer a great deal for playing back MKVs and wondered if there's audible hiss during quiet scenes in movies and tv shows? This is tremendously important to me.
> 
> I just received my T90 today and need to pair that with something cheap to tame the very slight simbilance I hear and something that will work until I can afford a much better amp like a musical fidelity m1.


 
 Hmm I would think the 250 ohm T90+ the typical Beyer Sensitivity shouldn't pick up on too much noise... although you know the T90 are going to BUTCHER anything that's not Lossess Audio... I've not heard the T90s but even my DT 880 makes any Lossy Audio Coded MKV sound kinda bleh [and it's pretty rare that I find anything with that bad an audio track] Non the less, the T90 crazy treble response might pick up noise... only my thoughts
  
 how ever that said I would totally love to hear a T90 +Vali anyways. I can live with a little hiss during quiet scense. As I have a fan that runs next to my 24/7 :/ so I'm used to drowning out white noise


----------



## ssrock64

Speaking of hiss...
  
 Does anyone who's spent significant time with the Vali have any comments about how dark the background is? I may have missed it earlier in the thread.


----------



## purrin

jbarrentine said:


> I just received my T90 today and need to pair that with something cheap to tame the very slight simbilance I hear and something that will work until I can afford a much better amp like a musical fidelity m1.


 
  
 The Vali is a pretty honest sounding amp and unlikely to take the edge away from the T90's treble.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
  
 A quick update on Vali: we should be seeing first articles from the board house this week. Assuming they're 100% (and there's no reason to think they won't be, I hand-built like a dozen prototypes of this one, since people kept asking for them), we should be seeing production next week. 
  
 At that point, there still may be a little lag until they're on the site; we need to make sure we have enough stock to fulfill the first orders. But I expect you'll be seeing the page go up late next week or shortly afterwards.
  
 An interesting note: we have to measure and match the tubes used in Vali, and doing so isn't as easy as you might think. Vali's tubes don't have pins. They have flying wires. Not exactly socket-friendly. So, after struggling through a few hundred tubes in-house, we ended up going to our board house and asking them what they could do. Turns out they have a new 3D printer, and they 3D-printed a funnel-style test fixture that allows them to go through 5000 tubes a day. So, 3D printing saves the day!
  
 Thanks for your patience--we want to assure a flawless launch.
  
 All the best,
 Jason


----------



## Anavel0

*screams like a school girl* 

Sounds great, Jason. And props to the design team with the 3D printer!


----------



## Phishin Phool

edit: never mind


----------



## 62ohm

jason stoddard said:


> _we should be seeing production next week. _


 
  
 News of the day! Great to hear, can't wait to try one directly.


----------



## Makiah S

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> A quick update on Vali: we should be seeing first articles from the board house this week. Assuming they're 100% (and there's no reason to think they won't be, I hand-built like a dozen prototypes of this one, since people kept asking for them), we should be seeing production next week.
> 
> ...


 
 wow that is awesome use of new technology!


----------



## captslow

Please forgive my ignorance but what is a board house? Is that the entity that manufactures the circuit boards?


----------



## Makiah S

captslow said:


> Please forgive my ignorance but what is a board house? Is that the entity that manufactures the circuit boards?


 
 Don't feel bad I was wondering the same thing
  
 Also do you guys think you could have sold the Vali at the price it was at without the 3D printer Solution, or rather could you have started production as early as you did without it? I'm just curious, been thinking about doing an ENglish Paper on 3D printings impact on the Audio Market


----------



## x838nwy

captslow said:


> Please forgive my ignorance but what is a board house? Is that the entity that manufactures the circuit boards?




One assumes so.


----------



## jbarrentine

I hope they're up on Amazon at launch. I have some credit there I need to run through.


----------



## Phishin Phool

mshenay said:


> Don't feel bad I was wondering the same thing
> 
> Also do you guys think you could have sold the Vali at the price it was at without the 3D printer Solution, or rather could you have started production as early as you did without it? I'm just curious, been thinking about doing an ENglish Paper on 3D printings impact on the Audio Market


 
 You may want to contact Mr. Speakers as they have the first 3d printed headphone the Alpha Dog (a Fostex t50rp based can)


----------



## satwilson

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> A quick update on Vali: we should be seeing first articles from the board house this week. Assuming they're 100% (and there's no reason to think they won't be, I hand-built like a dozen prototypes of this one, since people kept asking for them), we should be seeing production next week.
> 
> ...


 

 Ahhhh, just as I thought, a slight case of CONSTIPATION. I have overnighted a case of Metamucil to Jason and his team to hopefully speed this process along. Just doin my part. satwilson


----------



## Transformatron

satwilson said:


> Ahhhh, just as I thought, a slight case of CONSTIPATION. I have overnighted a case of Metamucil to Jason and his team to hopefully speed this process along. Just doin my part. satwilson



BREAKING HEADPHONE NEWS!
Schiit tube constipation!

My money is burning a hole in my hand. I have high hopes that the HE-300s are going to synergize well with the Vali.


----------



## BleaK

Hmmm, maybe I should give tubes a try after all.


----------



## UmustBKidn

captslow said:


> Please forgive my ignorance but what is a board house? Is that the entity that manufactures the circuit boards?


 
  
 Yes. I think pretty much every product on the Schiit webpage shows a pic of its circuit board. A circuit begins with a schematic, which represents the electrical design of a circuit. That circuit is then transformed into "circuit traces" on one or both sides of a circuit board. That board is the physical medium that holds the components of the device. It provides a way to hold the parts together, as well as connect them electrically. It also contains mounting points, which will hold the board within a case.
  
 Once the boards are produced, the electrical components (integrated circuits, capacitors, resistors, etc) are "stuffed" onto each board, after which the components are soldered onto the board (either on something called a "wave solder machine", or manually). The finished product is then mounted into a case, which isolates the components physically and electrically from the user, and provides whatever physical interfaces are needed (volume control, USB cable, power switch, etc).
  
 Specialization is the key to productivity in a Capitalist society.


----------



## samtheman

Hi everyone,
  
 I have a little dot dac_II paired with a little dot MKIII feeding my DH650. Has anyone had a chance to compare the Vali with the MKIII? I'm wondering if it would be a sidesways move?


----------



## UmustBKidn

satwilson said:


> Ahhhh, just as I thought, a slight case of CONSTIPATION. I have overnighted a case of Metamucil to Jason and his team to hopefully speed this process along. Just doin my part. satwilson


 
  
 I'd like to believe that was funny. But I can't. It came across as lame.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> Yes. I think pretty much every product on the Schiit webpage shows a pic of its circuit board. A circuit begins with a schematic, which represents the electrical design of a circuit. That circuit is then transformed into "circuit traces" on one or both sides of a circuit board. That board is the physical medium that holds the components of the device. It provides a way to hold the parts together, as well as connect them electrically. It also contains mounting points, which will hold the board within a case.
> 
> Once the boards are produced, the electrical components (integrated circuits, capacitors, resistors, etc) are "stuffed" onto each board, after which the components are soldered onto the board (either on something called a "wave solder machine", or manually). The finished product is then mounted into a case, which isolates the components physically and electrically from the user, and provides whatever physical interfaces are needed (volume control, USB cable, power switch, etc).
> 
> Specialization is the key to productivity in a Capitalist society.


 
 ... well said! U have a tour of their board house or something >.>


----------



## UmustBKidn

samtheman said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a little dot dac_II paired with a little dot MKIII feeding my DH650. Has anyone had a chance to compare the Vali with the MKIII? I'm wondering if it would be a sidesways move?


 
  
 Sir,
  
 You joined Head-fi almost 4 years ago, and this was your first post? Congratulations! It is rare to find someone with such ability at delayed gratification.
  
 Not many people have heard a Vali yet. Most people are going sideways just waiting for this thing to be released. I'm betting most comparisons are TBD. In the meantime, enjoy something that has been released:


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> ... well said! U have a tour of their board house or something >.>


 
  
 No my friend, I just know lots of arcane stuffz


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> Sir,
> 
> You joined Head-fi almost 4 years ago, and this was your first post? Congratulations! It is rare to find someone with such ability at delayed gratification.
> 
> Not many people have heard a Vali yet. Most people are going sideways just waiting for this thing to be released. I'm betting most comparisons are TBD. In the meantime, enjoy something that has been released:




  
 ... DMN I never knew the DT 880s would sound so good with EDM :O nice job Daft Punk Dt 880 Bass loves ur music! [Balanced 880 guys <3] and ofc no eq
  
 That said... who are those 5? Something yells Back Street Boy? [or Boyz] + some extras... either way weird video that girl has a strange skin tone to be in all blue >.> digged the dude with White Hair and clothes! 
  
 OK the video ended and they are PEntaPheonix I guess.. neato! Nice... mix of vocals they have going on there! The guy's voice really is that high... 
  
 anyways welcome back Sam btw!


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> ... DMN I never knew the DT 880s would sound so good with EDM :O nice job Daft Punk Dt 880 Bass loves ur music! [Balanced 880 guys <3] and ofc no eq
> 
> That said... who are those 5? Something yells Back Street Boy? [or Boyz] + some extras... either way weird video that girl has a strange skin tone to be in all blue >.> digged the dude with White Hair and clothes!
> 
> ...


 
  
 You've never heard of Pentatonix? Wow. Well, now you have. Mitch sings falsetto, which means he sings above the breaking point of his voice. These guys won season 3 of a show called Sing Off, which is kind of like America's Got Talent, except just for singing groups. They are flat out amazing. No instruments involved, just voices. I think they're amazing.


----------



## samtheman

mshenay said:


> ... DMN I never knew the DT 880s would sound so good with EDM :O nice job Daft Punk Dt 880 Bass loves ur music! [Balanced 880 guys <3] and ofc no eq
> 
> That said... who are those 5? Something yells Back Street Boy? [or Boyz] + some extras... either way weird video that girl has a strange skin tone to be in all blue >.> digged the dude with White Hair and clothes!
> 
> ...


 
  
  


umustbkidn said:


> Sir,
> 
> You joined Head-fi almost 4 years ago, and this was your first post? Congratulations! It is rare to find someone with such ability at delayed gratification.
> 
> Not many people have heard a Vali yet. Most people are going sideways just waiting for this thing to be released. I'm betting most comparisons are TBD. In the meantime, enjoy something that has been released:





 LOL - Thanks for the responses and the welcome back 
  
 I've deliberately kept my head low on this forum for fear of being seduced into more purchases - this latest Schiit has me tempted. Guess I'll wait and try to hold out for some reviews before any potential purchase.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Phishin Phool

Pentatonix was great in the sing off hadn't seen then for a while. Good to hear them again - so talented.


----------



## Makiah S

samtheman said:


> LOL - Thanks for the responses and the welcome back
> 
> I've deliberately kept my head low on this forum for fear of being seduced into more purchases - this latest Schiit has me tempted. Guess I'll wait and try to hold out for some reviews before any potential purchase.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
  


phishin phool said:


> Pentatonix was great in the sing off hadn't seen then for a while. Good to hear them again - so talented.


 
 neato, I do like Accapella


----------



## satwilson

umustbkidn said:


> I'd like to believe that was funny. But I can't. It came across as lame.


 

 No problem, each to their own, but in the end we are both amateur comedians.


----------



## manbear

samtheman said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a little dot dac_II paired with a little dot MKIII feeding my DH650. Has anyone had a chance to compare the Vali with the MKIII? I'm wondering if it would be a sidesways move?


 

 I have the same amp and am wondering the same thing. Vali will be more powerful, but that's all we really know for now. Though, I'm not opposed to a sideways move as I could sell my MKIII for a fair price and still have something left over if I end up preferring the Vali.


----------



## DemonFox

I probably missed this somewhere but when will the Vali be released? 
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Defiant00

Within the next week or so I believe.


----------



## Transformatron

demonfox said:


> I probably missed this somewhere but when will the Vali be released?
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 
 Jason posted some info on post #635


----------



## Phishin Phool

Just a warning to the community , there are two websites* revisco (bookvault,net) and Electrician warehouse (electricianwarehouse.com). *Both advertise Schiit products (as well as many others) at significant discounts. Both these sites are hosted in Russia and their sole purpose is to get your credit card number and sit on it then 6 months or a year later (or just before the card exp) they will sell them or use them . In other words they are black market sites for credit card numbers - if supply is low or backordered when this comes out or it looks like you can get a 'better deal' from one of these sites - beware !!!!!!
  
 (currently they are offering new magnis for $66 us)- scam


----------



## Makiah S

phishin phool said:


> Just a warning to the community , there are two websites* revisco (bookvault,net) and Electrician warehouse (electricianwarehouse.com). *Both advertise Schiit products (as well as many others) at significant discounts. Both these sites are hosted in Russia and their sole purpose is to get your credit card number and sit on it then 6 months or a year later (or just before the card exp) they will sell them or use them . In other words they are black market sites for credit card numbers - if supply is low or backordered when this comes out or it looks like you can get a 'better deal' from one of these sites - beware !!!!!!
> 
> (currently they are offering new magnis for $66 us)- scam


 
 Whoa thanks man! Good to know about that. Some one ough to post this on the First page of this for any new members who start there


----------



## Tuco1965

As always caveat emptor.


----------



## jbarrentine

mshenay said:


> Whoa thanks man! Good to know about that. Some one ough to post this on the First page of this for any new members who start there


 
  
 If they don't show up on reseller ratings with a decent score, don't bother.


----------



## Taowolf51

So to those who have used the Vali with an LCD-2, how would you say it performs? Would you consider it a reasonable combination for someone who's already spending a bundle on an LCD-2?


----------



## Makiah S

taowolf51 said:


> So to those who have used the Vali with an LCD-2, how would you say it performs? Would you consider it a reasonable combination for someone who's already spending a bundle on an LCD-2?


 
 Well I think Purrin heard it with his Modded T50RP. still ppl are reporting nice sound with thick orthos like the modded T50RP
  
 On the positive side I might be getting to hear the Stock T50RP!


----------



## Phishin Phool

mshenay said:


> Well I think Purrin heard it with his Modded T50RP. still ppl are reporting nice sound with thick orthos like the modded T50RP
> 
> On the positive side I might be getting to hear the Stock T50RP!


 
 I just got a modded t50rp this week but from what I am told a stock t50rp may not be on the positive side


----------



## Makiah S

phishin phool said:


> I just got a modded t50rp this week but from what I am told a stock t50rp may not be on the positive side


 
 Still want to hear it stock. It's $100 so I'm not expecting greatness. I'll find some positives in that stock T50RP some how


----------



## Phishin Phool

> Still want to hear it stock. It's $100 so I'm not expecting greatness. I'll find some positives in that stock T50RP some how


 
 OT: What surprised me on mine was how silky smooth the vocals/midrange is. Fantastic on both SS and a tube amp. Also the soundstage was very diffeent than any of my other cans. On my beyerdyanamics it is as f I am sitting in the third or fourth row and hearing a concert just in front of me - normal listening experience. Withthe t50rp it is as if I have moved up onto the stage and am in the middle of the musicians with some being left/right/ahead/and behind me - very different.Hope you enjoy yours.


----------



## iogashi

This is quite interesting, I look forward to its release. Looks good so far.


----------



## Makiah S

phishin phool said:


> OT: What surprised me on mine was how silky smooth the vocals/midrange is. Fantastic on both SS and a tube amp. Also the soundstage was very diffeent than any of my other cans. On my beyerdyanamics it is as f I am sitting in the third or fourth row and hearing a concert just in front of me - normal listening experience. Withthe t50rp it is as if I have moved up onto the stage and am in the middle of the musicians with some being left/right/ahead/and behind me - very different.Hope you enjoy yours.


 
 Well sadly No listening for me :3 I'm buying it as part of a Trade, my buyer want's it to stay sealed in Box NEW for the pourpose of the trade... *sad face*
  


iogashi said:


> This is quite interesting, I look forward to its release. Looks good so far.


 
 Oh that above post is about the Stock T50RP


----------



## satwilson

mshenay said:


> Well I think Purrin heard it with his Modded T50RP. still ppl are reporting nice sound with thick orthos like the modded T50RP
> 
> On the positive side I might be getting to hear the Stock T50RP!


 

 I was looking at your profile and saw you owned the Mad Dogs and sold them. I have 2 pair of modded T50's, one pair I modded from stock, the other ZMF's version. I can say from my perspective, and many others on the forum agree, the stock Fostex is pretty disappointing. Given that you sold your Mad Dogs, I doubt you would find much to like in the stock version unless you plan on modding them. That being said, very few modders achieve the results Dan has with the MD, but it is a lot of fun to do, good luck. BTW Purrin said the Paradox(modded T50) and Vali were "sublime"


----------



## leesure

taowolf51 said:


> So to those who have used the Vali with an LCD-2, how would you say it performs? Would you consider it a reasonable combination for someone who's already spending a bundle on an LCD-2?




I spent the morning listening to that combination. I was processing photos, so I wasn't really listening critically, but I never felt it was particularly lacking. That said, the LCD's will scale with a better amp as well.

Pick a time and come by the studio in the next week or so and you can listen for yourself.


----------



## Taowolf51

leesure said:


> I spent the morning listening to that combination. I was processing photos, so I wasn't really listening critically, but I never felt it was particularly lacking. That said, the LCD's will scale with a better amp as well.
> 
> Pick a time and come by the studio in the next week or so and you can listen for yourself.


 
 Sounds good, the Vali would mostly be a stepping stone for a more appropriate amp.
  
 Also, PM'd.


----------



## HONEYBOY

I know it's been stated that this amp won't be quite suitable for sensitive IEMs, but has anyone tried it with Etymotic ER-4S? If so, any feedback on the combination would be very welcomed. Thanks.


----------



## Makiah S

satwilson said:


> I was looking at your profile and saw you owned the Mad Dogs and sold them. I have 2 pair of modded T50's, one pair I modded from stock, the other ZMF's version. I can say from my perspective, and many others on the forum agree, the stock Fostex is pretty disappointing. Given that you sold your Mad Dogs, I doubt you would find much to like in the stock version unless you plan on modding them. That being said, very few modders achieve the results Dan has with the MD, but it is a lot of fun to do, good luck. BTW Purrin said the Paradox(modded T50) and Vali were "sublime"


 
 WEll I won't b hearing the STock T50RP. It's going to be here today. My Buyer wants them to stay Sealed in box. Pretty sure he's going to mod them him self
  


honeyboy said:


> I know it's been stated that this amp won't be quite suitable for sensitive IEMs, but has anyone tried it with Etymotic ER-4S? If so, any feedback on the combination would be very welcomed. Thanks.


 
 It's un released atm so you might have to wait a little for impressions


----------



## HONEYBOY

@Mshenay Thanks! haha...I assumed after 46 pages that they were already released and there were impressions...


----------



## zaphod-159

Still waiting for these. Its killing me  I have been looking to invest in tube amp for a long time now and I can't wait any longer! Any word on when it will be available in their UK supplier?


----------



## Murdocderdon

Are the specs finally released? I can´t find them.


----------



## leesure

murdocderdon said:


> Are the specs finally released? I can´t find them.




What specs are you looking for? Some have been announced.


----------



## Murdocderdon

The maximum Power in different Ohms would be great.


----------



## leesure

murdocderdon said:


> The maximum Power in different Ohms would be great.





murdocderdon said:


> The maximum Power in different Ohms would be great.




The power spec they released was 650mW into 32 Ohms.


----------



## Taowolf51

Has anyone had the chance to compare the Vali to the Woo Audio WA6 (perhaps with the Sofia Princess Rectifier)?


----------



## tomb

leesure said:


> The power spec they released was 650mW into 32 Ohms.


 
  
 A simple Ohm's Law calc - says 143ma current at that combination.  I'm not sure if that's all in Class A.  If it is, it's high, but not outside of the scope of many headphone amps.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

taowolf51 said:


> Has anyone had the chance to compare the Vali to the Woo Audio WA6 (perhaps with the Sofia Princess Rectifier)?



Pfft, bit of a class difference there.


----------



## Phishin Phool

Aaargh - I had car troubles over the weekend and had to sink a bunch of money into repairs (and new tires) so several purchases I had planned on this week or next (including the Vali ) are on hold for several weeks.


----------



## SMG52

taowolf51 said:


> Has anyone had the chance to compare the Vali to the Woo Audio WA6 (perhaps with the Sofia Princess Rectifier)?


 
 "The Vali is what most solid-state amps wish they can be in terms of clarity, resolution, microdynamics, but with a twist of having a touch of inner warmth and non-edgy, but very present treble. Think EC, DNA Stratus, Woo WA5, etc."
  
 Purrin....on page 7 of this thread.....for what it's worth (the WA5 is a $3500 amp).


----------



## manbear

smg52 said:


> "The Vali is what most solid-state amps wish they can be in terms of clarity, resolution, microdynamics, but with a twist of having a touch of inner warmth and non-edgy, but very present treble. Think EC, DNA Stratus, Woo WA5, etc."
> 
> Purrin....on page 7 of this thread.....for what it's worth (the WA5 is a $3500 amp).


 
 I can't wait until more people review this thing. Am I crazy for expecting a good for the price but still very much entry level amp here? Something is wrong with the market if the quoted statement is actually true...


----------



## munchzilla

I think he's talking more about its characteristics and not how well it performs. might be close enough for a lot of people, but probably not actually as good.


----------



## SMG52

munchzilla said:


> I think he's talking more about its characteristics and not how well it performs. might be close enough for a lot of people, but probably not actually as good.


 
 +1


----------



## manbear

munchzilla said:


> I think he's talking more about its characteristics and not how well it performs. might be close enough for a lot of people, but probably not actually as good.


 
 I can see that, but still, I think there's a lot of hyperbole here. I guess that's Head-Fi, but even then, this thread takes it to a new level... I mean, best under $1,600? Schiit's best amp is its second cheapest, really?  

 I guess we'll find out in a week or two.


----------



## munchzilla

I think it reads more like: best tube amp under $1600 (for some headphones)


----------



## NinjaHamster

If it is anything like the Lyr (which I own and love), it will be nothing like any of the (Woo WA5, Stratus DNA, EC) amps mentioned in terms of clarity and resolution. It will be nice, but lacking in detail, clarity and resolution. I would be surprised if what Purrin says even remotely resembles the actuality.  If what he says is even close to being true, Schiit will have to discontinue the Lyr.  Tube rolling is fine, but if the Lyr can't compete - even with the best (expensive) tubes - then no one will buy it ... maybe the HE-6 requires more power than the Vali can provide, but even then, the Lyr (despite its much higher power output) is not considered an ideal match for the HE-6.  Given that he says the Vali is what solid state amps wish they could be in terms of clarity, resolution and microdynamics BUT also with inner warmth and a lack of edge, they will also need to discontinue the Magni and the Asgard 2, if not the Mjolnir.  
  
 If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, maybe - just maybe - it is actually a duck ...


----------



## manbear

munchzilla said:


> I think it reads more like: best tube amp under $1600 (for some headphones)


 
 And for some preferences, some ears, some settings of the reality distortion field, IMO, YMMV, etc. 

 AKA some people like it. No Schiit, it would really suck if nobody liked it. 

 \end rant


----------



## SMG52

After reading this thread I assume that Schiit will have some qualifiers on their website about what sorts of headphones this amp will not necessarily play nice with. It appears the Vali will be somewhat more limited in that way then other Schiit amps.


----------



## Taowolf51

smg52 said:


> "The Vali is what most solid-state amps wish they can be in terms of clarity, resolution, microdynamics, but with a twist of having a touch of inner warmth and non-edgy, but very present treble. Think EC, DNA Stratus, Woo WA5, etc."
> 
> Purrin....on page 7 of this thread.....for what it's worth (the WA5 is a $3500 amp).


 
 Interesting. I'll definitely be in line for this amp.


----------



## Makiah S

smg52 said:


> After reading this thread I assume that Schiit will have some qualifiers on their website about what sorts of headphones this amp will not necessarily play nice with. It appears the Vali will be somewhat more limited in that way then other Schiit amps.


 
 Exactly, I've speculated at this as well. It's been stated that the Vali might not play to well with Sensitive Headphones and iems [but who listens to iems at home q.Q' ] jk there are lots of home iem users, moving on though
  
 I still want to try it, though I doubt it's going to beat my 10ES2... that said I've found that I actually really like my W1000x on my Ag NFB 10ES2. Where my first listen with the combo left me well un impressed, after spending a lot of time with my W1000x on the go, I revisted the combo and found it was much better than when I first tried it! May be from the amp getting some burn in, either way. The W1000x now has a spot at home, which eliminates my need for a tube... STILL THOUGH I want to hear this bad boi


----------



## Zojokkeli

I have HD 598's and I'm thinking about upgrading to HD 650 somewhere down the line. Should I pull the trigger on this one or Magni? I'm also thinking about getting a pair of Momentums, I know they don't need amping, but would they sound like carbage through Vali?
I live overseas so possible tube replacement would propably be very costly, if that is something to take into consideration.


----------



## Kamakahah

As with all products aboard the hype train, cut your expectations in half. Then cut them in half again. At that point you'll likely be pleasantly surprised rather than slightly disappointed. 

No doubt Schiit will put out a great sounding product, even putting the price point aside. Just don't expect your favorite songs to suddenly turn into wavelengths of sonic ecstasy.


----------



## UmustBKidn

kamakahah said:


> As with all products aboard the hype train, cut your expectations in half. Then cut them in half again. At that point you'll likely be pleasantly surprised rather than slightly disappointed.
> 
> No doubt Schiit will put out a great sounding product, even putting the price point aside. Just don't expect your favorite songs to suddenly turn into wavelengths of sonic ecstasy.


 

 Agreed. I think the hype over this amp is astounding. The pre-release models that people have had to listen to, were all hand built. I really like Schiit gear, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that prototype devices aren't production devices. I'd bet money that the production units probably will not sound the same (read: not quite so good).
  
 That being said, I still have a prototype Kenwood amp in my garage that is well over 30 years old, and it still works. The switches and pots are scratchy now. But the amp still functions.


----------



## wes008

umustbkidn said:


> Agreed. I think the hype over this amp is astounding. The pre-release models that people have had to listen to, were all hand built. I really like Schiit gear, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that prototype devices aren't production devices. I'd bet money that the production units probably will not sound the same (read: not quite so good).


 
 The tube in this thing has a bunch of filaments at the end that you need to lace into the amp.  Methinks machinery could build this one better.  I don't think Jason and Co. are putting fairy dust into these when they make them by hand.
  
 P.S. Look what Head-Fi wants to correct your username to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

 No offense intended, my friend.


----------



## mrscotchguy

umustbkidn said:


> Agreed. I think the hype over this amp is astounding. The pre-release models that people have had to listen to, were all hand built. I really like Schiit gear, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that prototype devices aren't production devices. I'd bet money that the production units probably will not sound the same (read: not quite so good).
> 
> That being said, I still have a prototype Kenwood amp in my garage that is well over 30 years old, and it still works. The switches and pots are scratchy now. But the amp still functions.




+1 Talk about snowball effect...

I have a feeling that this product will be terrific for newcomers to this hobby, but can we really expect a game changer for just over 100 bucks? Just look at the form factor alone. Not to mention the volume pot. I am sure Schiit has come a long way since the Asgard1 (the device that got me into is hobby). That said, I would like to share some perspective... My A1, that I hardly listen to anymore, has given me a satisfactory sound, but has one glaring flaw. The channel imbalance is truly horrid until you get to about 11 o'clock. My first introduction to headphones were all 32-60ohm options. For the longest time, I thought I had lost hearing in my right ear:basshead:... Needless to say, I didn't know better until further up my upgrade path. 

At the end of the day, Schiit can put all of their best design tweaks they've learned from all the previous gear and squeeze it into a tiny box... But ultimately, even if the sound quality is great, it will have limitations. This item is targeted towards early level enthusiasts, and those who have never taken the plunge into a headphone amp.

This will possibly be a perfect office setup for me since it is tiny. Does that make it worth the money, sure. Will I expect magic? If it has sound quality on par or better than the A1 with little to no channel imbalance, then the Vali will over deliver for me. 

With such high expectations that we've set, the Vali will almost never live up to them!


----------



## Makiah S

mrscotchguy said:


> With such high expectations that we've set, the Vali will almost never live up to them!


 
 Pff the only expetation I have of the Vali is to sound better than the last 2 crappy hybrids I had. The Indeed G3 and some Millet Hybrid built by gawd knows who? Both lacked dynamics and physically fell apart after about 6 months of stationary use! I'm pretty sure teh build of the Vali will meet all expectations, and sonically... again I'm confident it's goint to sound on par with at least my M Stage. The M Stage is a Great amp but... much warmer than I though when I had it :O in addition again the M Stage was GREAT but not that great in comparision to my NFB 10ES2. That said, I've set the bar pretty low honestly...


----------



## adamantium

This will probably be my first amp. I have been doing some research for a while and the Magni/Modi stack was going to be my purchase, but with the Vali coming out at only 20-30 more dollars, I think I will just do that. Super excited about this amp!


----------



## purrin

ninjahamster said:


> If it is anything like the Lyr (which I own and love), it will be nothing like any of the (Woo WA5, Stratus DNA, EC) amps mentioned in terms of clarity and resolution. It will be nice, but lacking in detail, clarity and resolution...


 
  
 The Vali is different from the Lyr. The Lyr has great slam, but ultimately lacked resolution and microdynamics, especially for the DACs I have owned. The Lyr is also warm sounding, although this could be a good thing if paired with certain headphones. I much prefer the presentation of the Vali to the Lyr. However, the Lyr can be use with any headphone, whereas the Vali cannot.
  
 Where the Vali lacks compared to the uber amps I mentioned above is bass dynamics and the ability to reproduce the softest sounds, the ability to extract low level information. But the Vali does get close, far closer than most other amps regardless of price. There is a reason I'm using the Vali as a temporary solution until my semi-custom tube amp gets built. There aren't many reasonably priced amps out there which can reproduce a good part of the resolution and microdynamics my DACs are capable of.


----------



## SMG52

Purrin....
  
 Semi-custom tube amp, sounds interesting. Not to derail this thread, but care to say anything more about it? 2A3 based, 300B.....source (company)....??


----------



## Sony Slave

purrin said:


> The Vali is different from the Lyr. The Lyr has great slam, but ultimately lacked resolution and microdynamics, especially for the DACs I have owned. The Lyr is also warm sounding, although this could be a good thing if paired with certain headphones. I much prefer the presentation of the Vali to the Lyr. However, the Lyr can be use with any headphone, whereas the Vali cannot.
> 
> Where the Vali lacks compared to the uber amps I mentioned above is bass dynamics and the ability to reproduce the softest sounds, the ability to extract low level information. But the Vali does get close, far closer than most other amps regardless of price. There is a reason I'm using the Vali as a temporary solution until my semi-custom tube amp gets built. There aren't many reasonably priced amps out there which can reproduce a good part of the resolution and microdynamics my DACs are capable of.


 
 Can you tube roll the Vali?


----------



## manbear

sony slave said:


> Can you tube roll the Vali?


 
 No. The tubes are soldered to the amp on the inside.


----------



## purrin

smg52 said:


> Purrin....
> 
> Semi-custom tube amp, sounds interesting. Not to derail this thread, but care to say anything more about it? 2A3 based, 300B.....source (company)....??


 
  
 Craig Uthus / Eddie Current is building it. Not too different from the 2A3mk4 just posted on his website, but running parallel 45s, interstage transformers instead of caps, OPTs will be a new design from Cinemag. Driver tubes likely to be 6C45pi. 3.3W in 8 ohms.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

quaity, class..


----------



## SMG52

purrin said:


> Craig Uthus / Eddie Current is building it. Not too different from the 2A3mk4 just posted on his website, but running parallel 45s, interstage transformers instead of caps, OPTs will be a new design from Cinemag. Driver tubes likely to be 6C45pi. 3.3W in 8 ohms.


 
 That sounds awesome. I've had 2A3 and 300B based SE amps for my stereo over the years. Never had efficient enough speakers for the 45 tube. You're killin' me!


----------



## Maxx134

Hello I see no pictures on first page so what is the form factor?
What does this look like?
Anyone, thank you


----------



## Taowolf51

maxx134 said:


> Hello I see no pictures on first page so what is the form factor?
> What does this look like?
> Anyone, thank you


 
 It looks exactly like the Magni.


----------



## darinf

maxx134 said:


> Hello I see no pictures on first page so what is the form factor?
> What does this look like?
> Anyone, thank you


 
 Here's a photo of @purrin 's prototype version at the San Diego meet:

 I think that may even be a Magni case with the "Magni" blacked out.


----------



## Phishin Phool

I sae a pic from RMAF I think of vali modi and magni all stacked on top of one another same form factor for all three


----------



## DemonFox

phishin phool said:


> I sae a pic from RMAF I think of vali modi and magni all stacked on top of one another same form factor for all three


 
  
 Magni and Vali are identical on the outside with different guts on the inside. One bright one warm. I can't wait to hear the Vali. I hope it works out with lower impedance cans. Even if there is a little bit of noise and I have to keep the volume low that wont bother me. I just want a $110 amp that sounds like a $500 amp is that to much to ask  
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## purrin

demonfox said:


> Magni and Vali are identical on the outside with different guts on the inside. One bright one warm. I can't wait to hear the Vali. I hope it works out with lower impedance cans. Even if there is a little bit of noise and I have to keep the volume low that wont bother me. I just want a $110 amp that sounds like a $500 amp is that to much to ask


 
  
 I believe the production Vali will have another set of vents on top, one set for each tube. The pre-production Vali I received was obviously put in a Magni chassis with the Magni crossed out with a marker.
  
 I wouldn't categorize one amp as warm and the other as bright. In terms of perceived treble volume, the Vali is about the same as the Magni. What the Vali does is present treble a bit differently. The Magni's treble can sound dry and at louder volumes splashy or steely. The Vali treble is smoother, but just as present. The Vali does seem to have a bit more perceived volume from the mid-bass to lower-midrange region than the Modi. Just a bit. The Vali does slam more, have better dynamics than the Magni.
  
 As far as the noise, the noise we are talking about is independent of the volume control. Your LCD2.2, HD650, and HE400 will surely work well with it.


----------



## UmustBKidn

wes008 said:


> The tube in this thing has a bunch of filaments at the end that you need to lace into the amp.  Methinks machinery could build this one better.  I don't think Jason and Co. are putting fairy dust into these when they make them by hand.
> 
> P.S. Look what Head-Fi wants to correct your username to
> 
> ...


 
  
 None taken. That is awesome, thank you for sharing that.
 I had a rough day at work today, so that was hilarious. Thank you for saving my sanity.
  
 Years ago, there was an equally hilarious "easter egg" in Word 1997, I think. If you entered "zzzz" into a blank Word 97 document and spell checked it, the suggested correction was "sex".


----------



## NinjaHamster

purrin said:


> The Vali is different from the Lyr. The Lyr has great slam, but ultimately lacked resolution and microdynamics, especially for the DACs I have owned. The Lyr is also warm sounding, although this could be a good thing if paired with certain headphones. I much prefer the presentation of the Vali to the Lyr. However, the Lyr can be use with any headphone, whereas the Vali cannot.
> 
> Where the Vali lacks compared to the uber amps I mentioned above is bass dynamics and the ability to reproduce the softest sounds, the ability to extract low level information. But the Vali does get close, far closer than most other amps regardless of price. There is a reason I'm using the Vali as a temporary solution until my semi-custom tube amp gets built. There aren't many reasonably priced amps out there which can reproduce a good part of the resolution and microdynamics my DACs are capable of.


 
 Interesting - thanks for the comparison.  I wouldn't mind a bit more resolution ... but I love the Lyr's big sound on the LCD2's, and I kind of like the warmth, despite it obscuring fine detail.  Oh well, I guess there's not long to wait before some LCD2 owners start trying the comparison ...


----------



## leesure

ninjahamster said:


> Oh well, I guess there's not long to wait before some LCD2 owners start trying the comparison ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/540#post_9930077


----------



## 62ohm

Well, in essence the Vali is a good warm & smooth complement to the bright & analytical Magni, and also a bad news for our wallets...
  
 It is a good business plan, have to give that to Schiit Audio. Now I MUST get the Vali as well, I have no choice.


----------



## Makiah S

62ohm said:


> Well, in essence the Vali is a good warm & smooth complement to the bright & analytical Magni, and also a bad news for our wallets...
> 
> It is a good business plan, have to give that to Schiit Audio. Now I MUST get the Vali as well, I have no choice.


 
 Hmm not sure the Vali is that much warmer, maybe smoother. I think we'd have to wait to hear it... from Purrins experince it makes me wonder why any one [outside of power requirements ect...] would need to own a Magni when the Vali in on the Market :/


----------



## 62ohm

mshenay said:


> Hmm not sure the Vali is that much warmer, maybe smoother. I think we'd have to wait to hear it... from Purrins experince it makes me wonder why any one [outside of power requirements ect...] would need to own a Magni when the Vali in on the Market :/


 
  
 Yeah if I am to buy an amp, I would definitely choose the Vali over the Magni with current available information. I think we have to concede to the fact that Schiit has reduce people's incentives to get the Magni, but it does not eliminate the fact that if I have the Vali, I would also crave for a Magni


----------



## NinjaHamster

leesure said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/540#post_9930077


 
 Thankyou.  I'd love to read a comparison with an amp just a little higher up the "chain", but that comparison does suggest that the Magni and the Vali are not entirely dissimilar in performance.  As usual I think we need to hear a plethora of views before we "hone in" on just how good the component is (a process which is still occurring with the LCD-X, for example). Usually the first responses tend to be - "This is amazing" or "This is no where near as good as the early hype" ... and then after a few months (years?), a general consensus (of sorts) is usually arrived at.


----------



## Makiah S

62ohm said:


> Yeah if I am to buy an amp, I would definitely choose the Vali over the Magni with current available information. I think we have to concede to the fact that Schiit has reduce people's incentives to get the Magni, but it does not eliminate the fact that if I have the Vali, I would also crave for a Magni


 
 Yea so we will have to wait to actually get some more feed back from owners!


----------



## leesure

ninjahamster said:


> Thankyou.  I'd love to read a comparison with an amp just a little higher up the "chain", but that comparison does suggest that the Magni and the Vali are not entirely dissimilar in performance.  *As usual I think we need to hear a plethora of views before we "hone in" on just how good the component is* (a process which is still occurring with the LCD-X, for example). Usually the first responses tend to be - "This is amazing" or "This is no where near as good as the early hype" ... and then after a few months (years?), a general consensus (of sorts) is usually arrived at.


 
  
  
 ...or we could listen and form our own opinion!
  
 Reading others' opinions is NEVER a substitute for forming your own.


----------



## Makiah S

leesure said:


> ...or we could listen and form our own opinion!
> 
> Reading others' opinions is NEVER a substitute for forming your own.


 
 Indeed and at $120... seriously guys I think it's cheap enough that I can totally afford to buy one.. and assuming you dont need it it would sell here on Head Fi for at least $100 and it would sell pretty quickly! And I totally plan on trying one! For my self


----------



## NinjaHamster

LOL - yes.  This is one of the few products where you could "take a chance" and listen for yourself without getting too burned (though International shipping is always a killer on low priced items).  It's really the more expensive items where I (with my limited funds) would prefer to get some consensus of opinions first ... unless there is a local distributer where I can actually hear it for myself.


----------



## Maxx134

Thank you guys for info.
Is there a release date set yet?


----------



## Phishin Phool

EDIT: (brain fart sorry guys) Jason stated (about a week or two ago) that it should probably go up on the website and taking orders sometime around this Fri .


----------



## Radio_head

Who is Jonathon?  Is that some kind of race?


----------



## Tuco1965

Outhouse racing.


----------



## Anavel0

tuco1965 said:


> Outhouse racing.




*facepalm*


----------



## purrin

mshenay said:


> Hmm not sure the Vali is that much warmer, maybe smoother. I think we'd have to wait to hear it... from Purrins experince it makes me wonder why any one [outside of power requirements ect...] would need to own a Magni when the Vali in on the Market :/


 
  
 I would say the Vali is just as analytical sounding if not more so than the Magni (assuming we are using a resolving DAC and a suitable recording - no, the Modi is not good enough for it), just that the presentation is different - not as dry or antiseptic. Hard to describe. One would get a Magni for low noise, lack of microphonics, tighter bass, and slightly more power.


----------



## Maxx134

In other words a SS vs Tubes difference ?


----------



## purrin

Depends. There are tube amps like Leben or Cary (at least the ones I heard with their specific tube compliments), which opt for an "interesting" tube sound. We shouldn't forget that the Vali is a hybrid: tubes with a discrete bipolar stage. Although generalizing, there's a certain sound to the follower stage too.


----------



## Makiah S

purrin said:


> One would get a Magni for low noise, lack of microphonics, tighter bass, and slightly more power.


 
 My thoughts exactly, low noise and more power.


----------



## tdockweiler

Modi not good enough for the Vali or did I read that wrong? Probably did. I know it's not ultra revealing and it's fairly forgiving of lower bit-rate files and poor recordings (slightly), but if you say the Modi isn't good enough you might as well say that about the ODAC as well. For those on a budget there's nothing wrong with the Modi or ODAC. Haha, maybe we can all go out and buy $800 DACs for our $120 amp. Sounds like something I'd do. I'm actually only interested in the Vali for a specific $50 headphone. I'm weird..
  
 I think the Modi is perfectly acceptable for something like the Q701, HD-598, HD-650 etc. Those aren't too revealing though to begin with. With those I could barely hear much difference between the ODAC and Modi. If I had something better (like a $500+ more revealing headphone) then I'd obviously use something other than the Modi. Actually I could probably be happy with the Modi on almost anything maybe.
  
 When I was testing the Magni and Modi I actually felt the Magni was holding back the Modi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yeah I did like the Magni too. Really. Felt the O2 was a better match for me though because of preferences.
  
 The Modi doesn't have many faults for me and I didn't really hear them until I tried it with the T90 and compared it to a more expensive DAC. Somehow I actually felt the Modi worked well with that and made it much more listenable and smoother sounding. This seems to go against what most people would think. The idea that the Modi is bright/thin is just nonsense to me.
  
 I upgraded from the Modi so it'll be nice comparing my DACs with the Vali. I think the Modi is the best $99 i've ever spent on a piece of audio gear.
  
 So hopefully the Modi and Vali would be the perfect budget setup.


----------



## UmustBKidn

62ohm said:


> Yeah if I am to buy an amp, I would definitely choose the Vali over the Magni with current available information. I think we have to concede to the fact that Schiit has reduce people's incentives to get the Magni, but it does not eliminate the fact that if I have the Vali, I would also crave for a Magni


 
  
 I have both a cheap hybrid tube/ss amp, and a Magni, and I tell you what, I love them both. I switch them out depending on what type of music I want to listen to. For what it's worth, you can read my impressions here.
  
 When in doubt, I hook up my Magni. I know that I am going to get the most accurate, reliable reproduction from it. I know that's not saying much, given my gear inventory, but I wouldn't trade my Magni for anything.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> I have both a cheap hybrid tube/ss amp, and a Magni, and I tell you what, I love them both. I switch them out depending on what type of music I want to listen to. For what it's worth, you can read my impressions here.
> 
> When in doubt, I hook up my Magni. I know that I am going to get the most accurate, reliable reproduction from it. I know that's not saying much, given my gear inventory, but I wouldn't trade my Magni for anything.


 
 I did the same for a while with my Matrix M Stage and my last Hybrid Tube! And as purrin mentioned it appears the Magni has a slighty tighter sound signiture, over the Vali, which is a Hybrid Tube. Still if you have an already TIGHT Headphone a tube is in most cases a good thing, where as if you have something more laid back and colored, a solid state would match better. I enjoyed my DT 880s out of a tube for a while... although I eventually liked the tighter sound on the already tight DT 880 even more, and now I've got a Balanced Dac/Amp xD
  
 Non the less, I'm still interested in hearing the Vali! FOr vocals there are very few songs that I miss having a tube for. So I definatly plan on getting one one of these days... but first I've got to gind a nice Balanced Tube.... as after this Spring I'm swtiching to fully balanced portable and at home! I just find the balanced is a real improvement with every headphone I've heard balanced, 
  
 That said how ever, I've got an 4pin XLR se Apadter so :3 my DT 880 might enjoy some Vali warmth for a few weeks ;3


----------



## Sony Slave

mshenay said:


> I did the same for a while with my Matrix M Stage and my last Hybrid Tube! And as purrin mentioned it appears the Magni has a slighty tighter sound signiture, over the Vali, which is a Hybrid Tube. Still if you have an already TIGHT Headphone a tube is in most cases a good thing, where as if you have something more laid back and colored, a solid state would match better. I enjoyed my DT 880s out of a tube for a while... although I eventually liked the tighter sound on the already tight DT 880 even more, and now I've got a Balanced Dac/Amp xD
> 
> Non the less, I'm still interested in hearing the Vali! FOr vocals there are very few songs that I miss having a tube for. So I definatly plan on getting one one of these days... but first I've got to gind a nice Balanced Tube.... as after this Spring I'm swtiching to fully balanced portable and at home! I just find the balanced is a real improvement with every headphone I've heard balanced,
> 
> That said how ever, I've got an 4pin XLR se Apadter so :3 my DT 880 might enjoy some Vali warmth for a few weeks ;3


 
 Is there actually a sonic difference with balanced headphones?


----------



## Makiah S

sony slave said:


> Is there actually a sonic difference with balanced headphones?


 
 Yea, better sound stage and instrument seperation. Along with better extension on both ends, and a more focused mids. 
  
 It's hard to say, with Audio GD Amps the Balanced out is superior the the SE, that's by design. The only objective differance in balanced and SE is power, you can drive more power with balanced. Outside of that, in theory balanced will sound better due to an increase in physical channel seperation, as in there is an individual wire running the + and - signal for both left and right, over SE which has only one channel for L + - and one for R + - 
  
 Plain and simple it sounds better, but you couldn't measure the improvement... I'm not sure "Sound stage and depth" are things to be objectively captured at this point in time. Nor is "Focus" focus as in there is not a sense of "veil" or a glossed over sound in the mids. 
  
 But in theory Balanced sounds better, and by design Audio GD balanced amps sound better than the SE variants. 
  
 So in my case, yes Balanced is better every time. The same applies to my PB1, the balanced out sounds better over the SE


----------



## Taowolf51

A question to those who have spent more time with the Vali than I have.
 I'm most likely going to be getting a new pair of LCD-2's. Unfortunately, my current amp (M-Stage) is meant more for higher impedance cans like the HD800's or sensitive cans like Denons and I need an affordable proper amp for my LCD-2's until I can afford something more substantial. The two amps I have my eye on are the Schiit Magni and Vali, which are both around $100 and once I get a better amp will fit nicely in the Audeze rugged case for needed transportability. While I have heard the LCD-2 (rev 1, not rev 2) with both, I couldn't figure out which one I preferred in the time I spent with them.
  
 Would anyone with experience with both of them on the LCD-2 mind posting a bit of their impressions on how they compare? It'll help me make my final decision.
  
 Also, I will be trying the speaker amp option with my Emotiva stack (XDA-2, XPA-200), but that's for a bit later.
  
 Lastly, I do have a nice vintage amp (Optonica SM-4000u), would that possibly perform better than the Magni or Vali? I believe the headphone amp is just a reduced version of the full speaker tap signal.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

A quick update on Vali: it's taken us a little longer than expected to perfect the 3D-printed test fixture for the tubes, but as of today, they're being matched and binned for production. That means we're probably only a few days away from getting boards in quantity. This means we're looking at a launch next week.
  
 In the meantime, here's one of the official Vali shots:
  

  
 Not much different than Magni--just different holes on top...


----------



## MickeyVee

Sweeeeeeet! Can't wait to order one!
 Quote:


jason stoddard said:


> A quick update on Vali: it's taken us a little longer than expected to perfect the 3D-printed test fixture for the tubes, but as of today, they're being matched and binned for production. That means we're probably only a few days away from getting boards in quantity. This means we're looking at a launch next week.


----------



## sfwalcer

jason stoddard said:


> A quick update on Vali: it's taken us a little longer than expected to perfect the 3D-printed test fixture for the tubes, but as of today, they're being matched and binned for production. That means we're probably only a few days away from getting boards in quantity. This means we're looking at a launch next week.
> 
> In the meantime, here's one of the official Vali shots:
> 
> ...


 

 Hmmm lovely front indeed, any shots of the back by any chance cuz they don't call me the.....
.... for nothin'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just wanted to know the back layout/ connectors that's all cuz not sure if my cheapo ELE dac or Fiio e17 can be hooked to the Vali via my computer. 
  
 Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## leesure

jason stoddard said:


> A quick update on Vali: it's taken us a little longer than expected to perfect the 3D-printed test fixture for the tubes, but as of today, they're being matched and binned for production. That means we're probably only a few days away from getting boards in quantity. This means we're looking at a launch next week.
> 
> In the meantime, here's one of the official Vali shots:
> 
> ...




Damn! That's one fine photograph!! 

Tho I might be biased.


----------



## jexby

leesure said:


> Damn! That's one fine photograph!!


 
  
 that photograph would be a lot "better" if it was already up on the website and I was able to click
  [Add To Cart]
 !
  
 guess I can stop my constant reloads of the schiit page until after Monday....


----------



## leesure

taowolf51 said:


> Would anyone with experience with both of them on the LCD-2 mind posting a bit of their impressions on how they compare? It'll help me make my final decision.




No no no!!!

Don't let others form YOUR opinion! You spent a lot of time with both yesterday...prolly as much as anyone else in the world, save 5-6 people.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Back is same as Magni...


----------



## sfwalcer

jason stoddard said:


>


 

 ^ Oh Ok, thanks guess no 3.5mm input then. Might need to get some new cables for this thing as well....


----------



## TMRaven

3.5mm to rca for like 1 dollar on amazon.


----------



## jexby

tmraven said:


> 3.5mm to rca for like 1 dollar on amazon.


 
  
 nah nah nah
 don't we need the more expensive Oyaide HPC-35R cable?


----------



## sfwalcer

tmraven said:


> 3.5mm to rca for like 1 dollar on amazon.


 

 But... but i need those $$$$$pecialty cable though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 j/k
  
 Thanks for the heads up, will do. Kinda a noob to all this dac/amp thing cuz initially thought the Vali also had a internal dac. LoL


----------



## jbarrentine




----------



## Taowolf51

leesure said:


> No no no!!!
> 
> Don't let others form YOUR opinion! You spent a lot of time with both yesterday...prolly as much as anyone else in the world, save 5-6 people.


 
  
 Oh no, I'm certainly not trying to get others to form my opinion. I like both for completely different reasons (cleaner and more dynamic for the magni and more euphonic for the Vali, the magni is more exciting and punchy but less "natural" than the vali, and I can certainly tell the LCD-2 wants the increased power the Magni has) and I'm trying to fish for a little nugget that'll help this decision. Getting to a/b both was a massive help, I wasn't even considering the Magni until I did and that very well may be the one I go for.
  
 Though you are right, the chances of someone being able to help is very close to zero.
  
 Honestly, the popularity of the Vali will probably make that decision for me (will be hard to get), and that's fine.
  


leesure said:


> Damn! That's one fine photograph!!
> 
> Tho I might be biased.


 
 Ahahaha, every damn thread Lee!


----------



## purrin

taowolf51 said:


> Oh no, I'm certainly not trying to get others to form my opinion. I like both for completely different reasons (cleaner and more dynamic for the magni and more euphonic for the Vali, the magni is more exciting and punchy but less "natural" than the vali, and I can certainly tell the LCD-2 wants the increased power the Magni has) and I'm trying to fish for a little nugget that'll help this decision. Getting to a/b both was a massive help, I wasn't even considering the Magni until I did and that very well may be the one I go for.


 
  
 Tough decision and certainly one I can relate to as I preferred the LCD-3 from solid-state (Mjolnir) than tubes (BA), and I much prefer tubes. I would go Vali if you were ever to decide on upgrading DACs.


----------



## Taowolf51

purrin said:


> Tough decision and certainly one I can relate to as I preferred the LCD-3 from solid-state (Mjolnir) than tubes (BA), and I much prefer tubes. I would go Vali if you were ever to decide on upgrading DACs.


 
  
 I do keep hearing about the Mjolnir with the Audezes, and it's one of the front runners for the amps I'm looking at (among numerous others). My only hesitation is that I'll have to either buy a balanced DAC or remove my XDA-2 from my speaker setup, but this conversation is for another thread at a later time.


----------



## DemonFox

sfwalcer said:


> tmraven said:
> 
> 
> > 3.5mm to rca for like 1 dollar on amazon.
> ...


 
  
 Oh no... Don't ask or ever expect them to make either a tube DAC or some sort of AMP/DAC unit
  
  
 Never gonna happen... I've asked 
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## UmustBKidn

jexby said:


> that photograph would be a lot "better" if it was already up on the website and I was able to click
> [Add To Cart]
> !
> 
> guess I can stop my constant reloads of the schiit page until after Monday....


 
  
 +1


----------



## UmustBKidn

jason stoddard said:


>


 
  
 I wonder how much you could sell serial number 1 on ebay for...


----------



## UmustBKidn

jbarrentine said:


>


 
  
 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That is so wrong, but so funny, on so many levels...


----------



## ab initio

Subscribing to find out when the Vali goes live on the Schiit site..... You know, so I can read the FAQ on what the heck 'Vali' is from Norse mythology (at least, it's more interesting than the wiki articles)
  
 Vali seems like it will be a great amp to compliment the Magni+Modi stack to give a SS/tube option. I think we can call the Vali+Magni+Modi combo the "Schiit Tower".
  
 Also, rumor has it that Vali pairs nicely with Paradox headphones, which is super convenient since LFF will be shipping my new Paradox headphones any day now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 *fingers crossed*
  
 A couple of questions come to mind:
  
 1) How hot will the Vali run? Where in the Schiit tower does it go? Otherwise, I will have to build a little Schiitstand or something
  
 2) Is it too late to put the Vali in a cylindrical chassis like the Mac Pro? It would greatly simplify tube-rolling.... *sarcasm*
  
  
 I look forward to expanding my Schiit pile!
 Cheers!


----------



## UmustBKidn

ab initio said:


> ...
> A couple of questions come to mind:
> 
> ...
> ...


 
  
 The official position is that there is no tube rolling on the Vali.
  
 Whether that stops anyone from trying, remains to be seen.


----------



## gideon228

Well you gotta think geometrically sometimes


----------



## Zojokkeli

This is a bit offtopic, but I'm thinking about visiting the states for a couple of weeks next summer/autumn, east coast to be more specific. Are there any places I could buy Schiit products with europlugs and voltage options in NYC or Boston? I would save a ton of money by skipping international shipping + VAT.


----------



## shipsupt

Doesn't it have a wall wart?  You could just buy the appropriate power supply when you return to Finland, earplug and all.  Not sure if that would blow the savings...


----------



## Sony Slave

jbarrentine said:


>


 
 Powerful.


----------



## ab initio

shipsupt said:


> Doesn't it have a wall wart?  You could just buy the appropriate power supply when you return to Finland, earplug and all.  Not sure if that would blow the savings...


 
 If it's like Magni, it would use an AC/AC wall wart, which are a bit harder to come by...
  
 Cheers


----------



## shipsupt

Thanks! Sorry for the mis-direct there!


----------



## Phishin Phool

umustbkidn said:


> The official position is that there is no tube rolling on the Vali.
> 
> Whether that stops anyone from trying, remains to be seen.


 
 Hence the quote "SARCASM" at the end


----------



## wes008

ab initio said:


> 2) Is it too late to put the Vali in a cylindrical chassis like the Mac Pro? It would greatly simplify tube-rolling.... *sarcasm*


 

  
  
 And I'm guessing it would have to go on the top of the stack...... the Magni already got the air around it toasty after a while running, I'd imagine this'll get MUCH hotter.


----------



## Defiant00

taowolf51 said:


> I do keep hearing about the Mjolnir with the Audezes, and it's one of the front runners for the amps I'm looking at (among numerous others). My only hesitation is that I'll have to either buy a balanced DAC or remove my XDA-2 from my speaker setup, but this conversation is for another thread at a later time.


 
  
 Mjolnir has both balanced and unbalanced inputs, it's just the outputs that are all balanced.


----------



## BTooze

If you had a "Schiit tower", what would be the best way of feeding the Modi o/p to both the Magni and the Vali?
 Would using RCA splitters have an effect on the DAC o/p?


----------



## Taowolf51

defiant00 said:


> Mjolnir has both balanced and unbalanced inputs, it's just the outputs that are all balanced.


 
  
 Well schiit, I guess I misinterpreted the description (the part about it *only* being a balanced amp).
  
 That makes things a lot easier, actually. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## leesure

wes008 said:


> And I'm guessing it would have to go on the top of the stack...... the Magni already got the air around it toasty after a while running, I'd imagine this'll get MUCH hotter.


 
  
  
 FWIW, I don't think the Vali got MUCH hotter.  Not NEARLY as hot as a Lyr.  I had my Trinity stacked Modi on the bottom, Magni in the middle and Vali on top and the whole stack ran reasonably cool.
  
  
 Sadly, my Modi and Magi are lonely…Vali went home.


----------



## mrscotchguy

btooze said:


> If you had a "Schiit tower", what would be the best way of feeding the Modi o/p to both the Magni and the Vali?
> Would using RCA splitters have an effect on the DAC o/p?




I am curious about everyone's thoughts on this subject too


----------



## NZheadcase

btooze said:


> If you had a "Schiit tower", what would be the best way of feeding the Modi o/p to both the Magni and the Vali?
> Would using RCA splitters have an effect on the DAC o/p?




I've had email conversations with Jason on this a while ago for the Bifrost>Asgard>Lyr stack. He recommended RCA splitters and said there shouldn't be audible differences, if any. Done a lot of testing at that time and indeed I observed no sound degradation (from my perspective at least). I imagine it should be the same for the Mini Trinity stack.

Admittedly, I never ran the Lyr and Asgard at the same time. I did test SQ with and without splitters, and the sound was fine with the splitter I used.


----------



## leesure

btooze said:


> If you had a "Schiit tower", what would be the best way of feeding the Modi o/p to both the Magni and the Vali?
> Would using RCA splitters have an effect on the DAC o/p?


 
  
 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WppB9dkFBfD/p_703M22FRHD/AudioQuest-Hard-RCA-Splitter.html


----------



## MickeyVee

Those are the ones I used with the Bifrost.. one line to the Lyr and the other to speakers.  They're quite nice. No degradation that I heard.
  
 Quote:


leesure said:


> http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WppB9dkFBfD/p_703M22FRHD/AudioQuest-Hard-RCA-Splitter.html


----------



## gideon228

ab initio said:


> I think we can call the Vali+Magni+Modi combo the "Schiit Tower".


 
  
 Hear ye! Hear ye! Thou shalt worship only The Holy Schiit Trinity.


----------



## shenhaizile

i also do it,just expected this to be kept under wraps until RMAF, but LFF broke the news to the masses just now!


----------



## Makiah S

sfwalcer said:


> Hmmm lovely front indeed, any shots of the back by any chance cuz they don't call me the.....
> .... for nothin'.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ... bonux points man... you've just scored some serious bonus points when I go to re sell my Vali... if you can wait you'd be my first pick <3 
  


jbarrentine said:


>


 
  
 Thank you for this 


leesure said:


> http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WppB9dkFBfD/p_703M22FRHD/AudioQuest-Hard-RCA-Splitter.html


 
 also FINALLY I've been looking for something like this for like FOR FREAKING EVER... I was almost going to spend $50 on something crappy and not nearly s simple or cheap as that but ALAS!... oh wait... NFB 10ES2... has 2 rca outs already... fancy that I dun need them no moe... Oh well!


----------



## sfwalcer

mshenay said:


> *... bonux points man... you've just scored some serious bonus points when I go to re sell my Vali... if you can wait you'd be my first pick <3 *
> 
> 
> Thank you for this
> also FINALLY I've been looking for something like this for like FOR FREAKING EVER... I was almost going to spend $50 on something crappy and not nearly s simple or cheap as that but ALAS!... oh wait... NFB 10ES2... has 2 rca outs already... fancy that I dun need them no moe... Oh well!


 
 ^ Welp if you say so, i am gonna need that deep DEEP troll discounts then. hoho 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 My troll hole be will open for that Vali dump of yours.
  
 Don't leave me hanging now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Another victim.


----------



## UmustBKidn

phishin phool said:


> Hence the quote "SARCASM" at the end


 
  
 LOL. I missed that entirely. Sorry, my eyesight isn't what it used to be either.


----------



## Makiah S

sfwalcer said:


> ^ Welp if you say so, i am gonna need that deep DEEP troll discounts then. hoho
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO the troll has gotten me q,q
  
 Yea I'll see what I can do. ALthough if wating until junary is ok with you that is!


----------



## ninjapirate9901

Had a quick listen to the Vali this afternoon. Not bad, definitely not as clean sounding as the EF-6 or Soloist that were also on hand. Microphonics were noticeable when plugging headphones in. I think I'll need to pick one up for an extended listen as the time spent with it was very brief.


----------



## jbarrentine

ninjapirate9901 said:


> Had a quick listen to the Vali this afternoon. Not bad, definitely not as clean sounding as the EF-6 or Soloist that were also on hand. Microphonics were noticeable when plugging headphones in. I think I'll need to pick one up for an extended listen as the time spent with it was very brief.


 
  
 Damn, they aren't as clean as the device costing 10x as much or more. What a rip off.


----------



## Makiah S

jbarrentine said:


> Damn, they aren't as clean as the device costing 10x as much or more. What a rip off.


 
 UGH so dissappointed! YOU HAT DECIEVED US PURRINNNNNN


----------



## z7nz

I'm torn between getting the Vali or the Magni. My Beyer DT 880/250 Pro just arrived yesterday. Out of the box, it's a bit bright, but still ok for my ears (I like treble). I've read that the Magni is brighter, while the Vali produces slower bass. I listen to a lot of symphonic metal (metal + orchestra), so I want the phone to be fast, with good bass & instrument separation. I lean a bit towards the Magni, but the DT 880 is already bright so I don't know if I can stand it with a bright amp. My total budget for both amp+dac is $200. I'm also considering the O2 and E17, but all you schiit-heads have made the Magni/Vali/Modi stack very appealing to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Can I have suggestions which one I should get? I appreciate all the help.


----------



## Makiah S

z7nz said:


> I'm torn between getting the Vali or the Magni. My Beyer DT 880/250 Pro just arrived yesterday. Out of the box, it's a bit bright, but still ok for my ears (I like treble). I've read that the Magni is brighter, while the Vali produces slower bass. I listen to a lot of symphonic metal (metal + orchestra), so I want the phone to be fast, with good bass & instrument separation. I lean a bit towards the Magni, but the DT 880 is already bright so I don't know if I can stand it with a bright amp. My total budget for both amp+dac is $200. I'm also considering the O2 and E17, but all you schiit-heads have made the Magni/Vali/Modi stack very appealing to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The benifits are in my opionin, a bright and fast paced headphone with a warm amp usually producesa  good balance. The DT 880 is already very bright detailed and has nice speed, the warm of the tube won't take that away, just tone down the treble and add some warmth to the bass. 
  
 On the oppisite side  a very warm and slower headphone benifits from the brightness and tight nature of a Solid state.


----------



## elwappo99

z7nz said:


> I'm torn between getting the Vali or the Magni. My Beyer DT 880/250 Pro just arrived yesterday. Out of the box, it's a bit bright, but still ok for my ears (I like treble). I've read that the Magni is brighter, while the Vali produces slower bass. I listen to a lot of symphonic metal (metal + orchestra), so I want the phone to be fast, with good bass & instrument separation. I lean a bit towards the Magni, but the DT 880 is already bright so I don't know if I can stand it with a bright amp. My total budget for both amp+dac is $200. I'm also considering the O2 and E17, but all you schiit-heads have made the Magni/Vali/Modi stack very appealing to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately the Vali isn't really "out in the field" so to speak for testing. If you aren't in a huge rush, I'd wait another 2 weeks or so. By that time a good number of people will have both, and maybe even a few will have the DT880 and a Vali. With that information you'll be in a better place to decide. 
  
 A little OT, but I don't think I've really heard anyone describe the DT880 as "bright". What are you plugging them into?


----------



## Makiah S

elwappo99 said:


> Unfortunately the Vali isn't really "out in the field" so to speak for testing. If you aren't in a huge rush, I'd wait another 2 weeks or so. By that time a good number of people will have both, and maybe even a few will have the DT880 and a Vali. With that information you'll be in a better place to decide.
> 
> A little OT, but I don't think I've really heard anyone describe the DT880 as "bright". What are you plugging them into?


 
 Oh yes the DT 880 are on the bright side. I've owned 2 Dt 880s and I still feel they are bright headphones. Granted very balanced but still a smidge bright,
  
 Non the less I agree, wait a few weeks on getting on. Till the hype dyes down and ppl can a get chance to flesh out the amp. But it boils down to preferance. I owned a Solid State and Tube at one time, both where quality wise on about the same level. I hapapend to like my Solid State over my tube, so I went that direction. What you like will depend on your preferance, and I would to get both the Vali and Mangi at the same time. Schiit may charge you a small restocking fee to return it, but you could also resell it here on head fi Or you can start with the Vali, and if you don't like it trade it for a Magni!


----------



## z7nz

Thanks guys, I'll wait for the Vali and see how it goes.
 I've seen many people in the dt880 thread say it's bright. I also have a pair of Shure SRH440, and its treble is nowhere near the dt880. I prefer the sound of the dt880 though. I'm just afraid the Magni may make it too bright. 
 I don't have any dac/amp so I just plug the dt880 straight to my laptop for now. The laptop can make it loud enough, my normal listening volume is 6-10% for ~50 Ohm hp and IEMs, and 18-28% for this headphone.


----------



## jbarrentine

z7nz said:


> I prefer the sound of the dt880 though. I'm just afraid the Magni may make it too bright.


 
  
 Just bought a T90 and this is exactly what I'm afraid of with the Magni.


----------



## alan73

elwappo99 said:


> Unfortunately the Vali isn't really "out in the field" so to speak for testing. If you aren't in a huge rush, I'd wait another 2 weeks or so. By that time a good number of people will have both, and maybe even a few will have the DT880 and a Vali. With that information you'll be in a better place to decide.
> 
> A little OT, but I don't think I've really heard anyone describe the DT880 as "bright". What are you plugging them into?


 

 A LOT of people have said DT880s are bright

 Look at the 6db peak at 8-9 khz there.


----------



## Makiah S

alan73 said:


> A LOT of people have said DT880s are bright
> 
> Look at the 6db peak at 8-9 khz there.


 
 U think that's bright go look at the DT 990 or T90 xD


----------



## elwappo99

alan73 said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately the Vali isn't really "out in the field" so to speak for testing. If you aren't in a huge rush, I'd wait another 2 weeks or so. By that time a good number of people will have both, and maybe even a few will have the DT880 and a Vali. With that information you'll be in a better place to decide.
> ...


 
  
 Huh, well I guess at the time I had them I was comparing to a pair of DT990s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, so my reference was probably in comparison to those. Most of the time I hear the DT880 being described as close to neutral, but that probably is also in reference to the DT990.


----------



## Makiah S

elwappo99 said:


> Huh, well I guess at the time I had them I was comparing to a pair of DT990s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 xD the DT 880 is very close to neutral and the DT 990 is pretty much the oppisite of that, although I owned and enjoyed them both at the SAME time


----------



## hmorneau

I think I will get the vali to try it with my T1. I much prefer the T1 now than the DT 880, but still for the price the DT880 are excellent.
  
 Do there is anything better then T1 available (more precise?)


----------



## Sweden

mshenay said:


> xD the DT 880 is very close to neutral and the DT 990 is pretty much the oppisite of that, although I owned and enjoyed them both at the SAME time


 

 DT880 may have been called neutral in the past but with more understanding of what's neutral in headphones it would better be caracterized as a slightly bright and and basslight headphone.


----------



## gunnerwholelife

z7nz said:


> I'm torn between getting the Vali or the Magni. My Beyer DT 880/250 Pro just arrived yesterday. Out of the box, it's a bit bright, but still ok for my ears (I like treble). I've read that the Magni is brighter, while the Vali produces slower bass. I listen to a lot of symphonic metal (metal + orchestra), so I want the phone to be fast, with good bass & instrument separation. I lean a bit towards the Magni, but the DT 880 is already bright so I don't know if I can stand it with a bright amp. My total budget for both amp+dac is $200. I'm also considering the O2 and E17, but all you schiit-heads have made the Magni/Vali/Modi stack very appealing to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have the dt880pro and o2+odac.Orchestra sounds kickass on the combo.I listen to fusion mostly like Lindsey Stirling and David Garrett and the sound is very good.What I feel is lacking is the instrument separation.Don't get me wrong.There is good amount of detail but I know dt880 can do better.I also have hd650 and I prefer dt880 as it sounds more natural and true to the recording.Hd650 sounds wow like no doubt but I prefer dt880.Both are great headphones and cover all the genres well.
      What I would suggest is wait for few more weeks and check out the general response on Vali as right now its slowly turning into an overhyped FOTM.


----------



## Makiah S

sweden said:


> DT880 may have been called neutral in the past but with more understanding of what's neutral in headphones it would better be caracterized as a slightly bright and and basslight headphone.


 
 Bass Light... Oh yea well if your not giving it enough power I can see how you would find the bass lacking... interestingly... going balanced with my DT 880 gave the bass a little more kick, in addition it gave the mids a touch more body as well... 
  
 But it is a touch bright... but as far as neutral goes you either have bright or dark, the "Mad Dog" is neutral but it's rather dark, and apprently the Alpha Dog is a touch bright.... 
  
 Still your insulting the DT 880 on an DT 880 Thread  beware... I bite ^^


----------



## hmorneau

mshenay said:


> Bass Light... Oh yea well if your not giving it enough power I can see how you would find the bass lacking... interestingly... going balanced with my DT 880 gave the bass a little more kick, in addition it gave the mids a touch more body as well...
> 
> But it is a touch bright... but as far as neutral goes you either have bright or dark, the "Mad Dog" is neutral but it's rather dark, and apprently the Alpha Dog is a touch bright....
> 
> Still your insulting the DT 880 on an DT 880 Thread  beware... I bite ^^


 
 I'm listening to my DT 880 03' at the moment and I agree with you, they have plenty of bass. I have the newest 600ohms and I think they are not as good, very little bass and with my setup I have plenty of power to spare.


----------



## Makiah S

hmorneau said:


> I'm listening to my DT 880 03' at the moment and I agree with you, they have plenty of bass. I have the newest 600ohms and I think they are not as good, very little bass and with my setup I have plenty of power to spare.


 
 Yea that's another issue... Beyer's slide scale of prodcut quality... It appears with age the sound signiture changes a little... non the less I have a 600 ohm and I very much enjoy the bass it has! The same could be said about my Pro Model which I purchased new last year...


----------



## Sweden

mshenay said:


> Bass Light... Oh yea well if your not giving it enough power I can see how you would find the bass lacking... interestingly... going balanced with my DT 880 gave the bass a little more kick, in addition it gave the mids a touch more body as well...
> 
> But it is a touch bright... but as far as neutral goes you either have bright or dark, the "Mad Dog" is neutral but it's rather dark, and apprently the Alpha Dog is a touch bright....
> 
> Still your insulting the DT 880 on an DT 880 Thread  beware... I bite ^^


 
  
 It only drops roughly 5-8 dB from 200-20Hz which is rather good for (semi)open dynamic headphone. That is however not what could be considered neutral. It should have gone up a few dB above flat instead from 200 Hz
 That is not the full story though. It would have been much easier if it where.
 You have to look at other factor beyond FR. Even if you EQ the D5000, LCD-2, DT880, a TWFK in-ear, Stax X flat from 20-1kHz their bass would be totally different in regards to perceived amount, fullness, slam and weight.
 The DT880 have a rather dry bass as well which makes them seem even a little more bass light. From my experince with Beyers they benefit from a warmer and lusher tube amp that roll of the treble somewhat and gives a small midbass boost or a Violectric SS amp.


----------



## Makiah S

sweden said:


> It only drops roughly 5-8 dB from 200-20Hz which is rather good for (semi)open dynamic headphone. That is however not what could be considered neutral. It should have gone up a few dB above flat instead from 200 Hz
> That is not the full story though. It would have been much easier if it where.
> You have to look at other factor beyond FR. Even if you EQ the D5000, LCD-2, DT880, a TWFK in-ear, Stax X flat from 20-1kHz their bass would be totally different in regards to perceived amount, fullness, slam and weight.
> The DT880 have a rather dry bass as well which makes them seem even a little more bass light. From my experince with Beyers they benefit from a warmer and lusher tube amp that roll of the treble somewhat and gives a small midbass boost or a Violectric SS amp.


 
 I suppose I like the drier bass, as I enjoyed my Solid State. The NFB 10ES2 does gives the mids a nice body and forwardness, in addition to a little more visceral bass. Non the less, the best thing about the DT 880 is so many of us like it for different reasons and enjoy it with so many different amps :3


----------



## Maxx134

I want my vali..
It is calling me from the warehouse.
I must buy...


----------



## DemonFox

Yah, I'm getting a little impatient. I'm ready for this thing to drop yesterday! Unless... There will be some Schitty Black Friday specials we are all waiting for?!?! huh huh??
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Makiah S

demonfox said:


> Yah, I'm getting a little impatient. I'm ready for this thing to drop yesterday! Unless... There will be some Schitty Black Friday specials we are all waiting for?!?! huh huh??
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 
 eww don't remind about that please


----------



## meishoudaole

same to me,From everything I read, it looks to be extremely promising, especially because the people who are raving about it actually have good ears. Might have to drive on down to Purrin's place to listen to it soon,thanks


----------



## campj

Picture of Vali (size comparison) on Asgard 2:

Found one if anyone else is interested:

http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/f6/900x900px-LL-f64f1e0a_DSC_5953.jpeg

Jon


----------



## campj

leesure said:


> http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WppB9dkFBfD/p_703M22FRHD/AudioQuest-Hard-RCA-Splitter.html



 


How exactly does this splitter work? In my mind, it'd need two male ends too. No comprende.


----------



## wes008

campj said:


> leesure said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WppB9dkFBfD/p_703M22FRHD/AudioQuest-Hard-RCA-Splitter.html
> ...


 
 Buy two


----------



## Phishin Phool

demonfox said:


> Yah, I'm getting a little impatient. I'm ready for this thing to drop yesterday! Unless... There will be some Schitty Black Friday specials we are all waiting for?!?! huh huh??
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 
   
 from the Schiit website
 Quote:


> We get asked all the time about deals, sales and other incentives, such as purchasing with 2 cards, *Black Friday specials*, EZ credit, trade-ins, monthly payments, and a whole raft of other “can I get a better price” questions.
> _So, here’s our position on sales, specials,_ financing, discounts, loyalty programs, EZ credit, buy-1-get-1-free, etc:
> *We don’t do them.*


----------



## NinjaHamster

wes008 said:


> Buy two


 
 LOL - it doesn't get much simpler (or more accurate) than that !!


----------



## DemonFox

phishin phool said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > Yah, I'm getting a little impatient. I'm ready for this thing to drop yesterday! Unless... There will be some Schitty Black Friday specials we are all waiting for?!?! huh huh??
> ...




Dude... I know. No harm in asking is there??



Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## campj

wes008 said:


> Buy two



 


Ha, I see. One goes in each female end of source, and then one male from each of the amps goes into one each of the splitter females. Rocket science! 

Thanks for the simple (but effective) answer.


----------



## darinf

I wonder what the schiit.com website traffic stats look like with everyone constantly loading their site hoping to see the Vali available.


----------



## Maxx134

I saved a ton of money on tube gear by getting a vali...
Oh wait, I didn't buy yet..


----------



## leesure

Jeebus...I guess no good deed gies unpunished. 

Schiit sends a few prototypes for review and shows a new product at a show, as a result they get grief for not shipping fast enough. 

They said November. It's still November.


----------



## NinjaHamster

How about now ... is it still November now ?  Are we there yet ??


----------



## mhamel

leesure said:


> Jeebus...I guess no good deed gies unpunished.
> 
> Schiit sends a few prototypes for review and shows a new product at a show, as a result they get grief for not shipping fast enough.
> 
> They said November. It's still November.


 
  
 THIS.
  
 Some act almost offended that it hasn't shipped yet.   Do you want it now, or do you want it done right?  One of the many reasons Schiit's products are held in such high regard is that they care enough about quality not to push things out before they're ready.


----------



## Maxx134

I will wait and still save a ton by getting a vali...(!)


----------



## imackler

mhamel said:


> One of the many reasons Schiit's products are held in such high regard is that they care enough about quality not to push things out before they're ready.


 
  
 And lets be honest...no one wants an Asgard 2 launch!


----------



## Taowolf51

Also considering the fact that they have to test and match each tube (even with the new 3d printed adapter) means it's going to take them some time. Patience will be worth it in the end.


----------



## genclaymore

unless you rather them rush it and you in up getting a unit which doesn't have a tube in it, or a tube that doesn't work.


----------



## Makiah S

taowolf51 said:


> Also considering the fact that they have to test and match each tube (even with the new 3d printed adapter) means it's going to take them some time. Patience will be worth it in the end.


 
 Agree'd we've all seen how... frustrating it is to get an unfinished product [Ie iBass DX 50, Fiio X3 and A&K 100] so many of the Audiophile DAPS are rushed to meet release dates resulting in a LOT of irrtating Firm Ware issues
  
 That said, I have no issue waiting for Schiit to test everything! Another reason, I'm confident for the price, the Vali is going to be a TOP competitor in the $100 Hybrid Tube Market... I doubt to many companies can atm match what Schiit is about to offer, in terms of build quality !


----------



## Sony Slave

maxx134 said:


> I will wait and still save a ton by getting a vali...(!)


 
 this about sums it up.


----------



## Transformatron

Please take my money by Friday! That's all I ask!


----------



## kstuart

darinf said:


> I wonder what the schiit.com website traffic stats look like with everyone constantly loading their site hoping to see the Vali available.


 

 I mentioned this aspect to Jason and he seemed unconcerned about it...


----------



## DemonFox

transformatron said:


> Please take my money by Friday! That's all I ask!




He mentioned that it should be up by this week so hopefully soon! Knowing them they don't drop half finished products so I'm cool with the short wait. 

Ask HIFI M8 people about what a real wait feels like  This is nothing compared to that mess!! 

That being said... Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie!!!



Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## NinjaHamster

kstuart said:


> I mentioned this aspect to Jason and he seemed unconcerned about it...


 
 Hopefully it will push them to the top of Google's searches when someone accidentally types "Yggdrasil" into their browser.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Alright, some silly Schiit to amuse ourselves while we wait ...
  
 Let's hear your favorite Schiit one-liner. You must use Schiit at least once in each sentence.


----------



## ab initio

umustbkidn said:


> Alright, some silly Schiit to amuse ourselves while we wait ...
> 
> Let's hear your favorite Schiit one-liner. You must use Schiit at least once in each sentence.


 
  
  
 My favorite tea's chi, it tastes yummy!


----------



## darinf

umustbkidn said:


> Alright, some silly Schiit to amuse ourselves while we wait ...
> 
> Let's hear your favorite Schiit one-liner. You must use Schiit at least once in each sentence.


 
 Why would I waste my time with that bull Schiit!
  
 I wish Jason would just get his Schiit together and release this Vali Schiit.
 I mean, does he even give a Schiit? I hear his amps sound like Schiit anyway.
 When I get my Vali, I will be happier than a pig in Schiit.
  
 No Schiit Sherlock!
  
 Too bad my Noble CIEM's won't work well with the Vali Schiit. That would be No-ble-Schiit.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> Alright, some silly Schiit to amuse ourselves while we wait ...
> 
> Let's hear your favorite Schiit one-liner. You must use Schiit at least once in each sentence.


 
 Fun idea, but seriously we shouldn't bull schiit around.
  
 Those limited edition black Valhalla's look dope as schiit.
  
 Also, sadly a 40mm driver cant drive sub bass worth a schiit, says I as I listen to my new UE 6000.


----------



## Tuco1965

This thread's getting schiitier each post.


----------



## Makiah S

tuco1965 said:


> This thread's getting schiitier each post.


 
 Who are you schiitin you know you love this thread!


----------



## konut

This is the only place I know where people look forward to the Schiit hitting the fans.


----------



## DemonFox

darinf said:


> umustbkidn said:
> 
> 
> > Alright, some silly Schiit to amuse ourselves while we wait ...
> ...


 
 That's some pretty funny Schiit right there 
  
  





  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Zojokkeli

umustbkidn said:


> Alright, some silly Schiit to amuse ourselves while we wait ...
> 
> Let's hear your favorite Schiit one-liner. You must use Schiit at least once in each sentence.


----------



## Tautologi

Anyone know the specs?
  
 Probably easy to find, but i did not succeed


----------



## leesure

The only spec that's been released is 650mW power output into 32ohms.


----------



## Sweden

zojokkeli said:


>




  
 That's how Schiit really is pronounced.


----------



## UmustBKidn

konut said:


> This is the only place I know where people look forward to the Schiit hitting the fans.


 
  
 +1


----------



## UmustBKidn

The wisdom of the ages...
  
 Taoism: Schiit happens.

 Confucianism: Confucius says, Schiit happens.
  
 Buddhism: If Schiit happens, it isn't really Schiit.
  
 Zen Buddhism: What is the sound of Schiit happening?
  
 Hinduism: This Schiit has happened before.
  
 Islam: If Schiit happens, it is the will of Allah.
  
 Catholicism: If Schiit happens, you deserved it.

 Protestantism: Let this Schiit happen to someone else.
  
 Episcopalian: It's not so bad if Schiit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
  
 Congregationalist: Schiit that happens to one person is just as good as Schiit that happens to another.
  
 Unitarian: Schiit that happens to one person is just as bad as Schiit that happens to another.
  
 Lutheran: If Schiit happens, don't talk about it.
  
 Judaism: Why does this Schiit always happen to us?
  
 Calvinism: Schiit happens because you don't work.
  
 Seventh Day Adventism: No Schiit shall happen on Saturday.
  
 Creationism: God made all Schiit.
  
 Secular Humanism: Schiit evolves.
  
 Christian Science: Any Schiit happening is all in your mind.
  
 Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this Schiit.
  
 Quakers: Let us not fight over this Schiit.
  
 Utopianism: This Schiit does not stink.
  
 Darwinism: This Schiit was once food.
  
 Capitalism: That's MY Schiit.
  
 Communism: No, it's everybody's Schiit.
  
 Feminism: Men are Schiit.

 Chauvinism: We may be Schiit, but you can't live without us...
  
 Commercialism: Let's package this Schiit.
  
 Impressionism: From a distance, Schiit looks like a garden.
  
 Idolism: Let's bronze this Schiit.
  
 Existentialism: Schiit doesn't happen; Schiit IS.
  
 Stoicism: This Schiit is good for me.
  
 Hedonism: There is nothing like a good Schiit happening!
  
 Mormonism: God sent us this Schiit.
  
 Jehovah's Witnesses: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our Schiit?
  
 Moonies: Only really happy Schiit happens.
  
 Hare Krishna: Schiit happens, rama rama.
  
 Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this Schiit!
  
 Pragmatism: Deal with Schiit one day at a time.
  
 Nihilism: No Schiit.
  
 Narcisism: I am the Schiit!
  
 Agnostic: What is this Schiit?
  
 Atheism: I can't believe this Schiit!
  
  
 (My apologies to anyone who might have taken offense to this Schiit).


----------



## gideon228

I damn Schiit meself laughin'!!!


----------



## 62ohm

Every time my subscribed thread list says there is a new post in 'NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!!' thread, I open it wishing someone posted "The Vali has finally got released!"
  
  
 is that too much to ask for?


----------



## DigitalFreak

Enough with all this Schiit and let's get back on topic. I say the new Vali will Schiit all over products in its price range. Purin, whose a good Schiit, is highly experienced in this hobby and knows his Schiit. I think the O2 people are going to Schiit their pants when they hear this new amp and feel like a bunch of dumb schiit's.


----------



## Makiah S

Oh man, this is some funny schiit
  
 also who else hate's when they find their room mates schiitin with the bath room door open....


----------



## zackzack

You people can't stop this schiit


----------



## Tuco1965

Hopefully it's released soon before someone schiits themselves.


----------



## Makiah S

tuco1965 said:


> Hopefully it's released soon before someone schiits themselves.


 
 oops sorry man I think I just did >.> all this excitement


----------



## Taowolf51

62ohm said:


> Every time my subscribed thread list says there is a new post in 'NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!!' thread, I open it wishing someone posted "The Vali has finally got released!"
> 
> 
> is that too much to ask for?


 
  
 You'll probably notice a *huge* number of new posts when it gets released. If I see a couple posts I don't get too excited, but when I see 30, I'll start to get excited.


----------



## wahsmoh

All these Schiit jokes are somehow ending up in threads that aren't meant for Schiit


----------



## eke2k6

. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~., 
 . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-., 
 . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:, 
 . . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\, 
 . . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,} 
 . . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.} 
 . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./ 
 . . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./ 
 . . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./ 
 . . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/ 
 . . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .} 
 . . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../ 
 . . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../ 
 . . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-” 
 . . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\ 
 . . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__ 
 ,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-, 
 . .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\ 
 . . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\ 
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__ 
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==`` 
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`


----------



## Maxx134

The wonderz of schiit..
It preceeds them before vali arrives.
Amazing schiit literacy here..
I am assuming many here have been treated like schiit before..
But we will be vindicated with our new schiit..


----------



## BournePerfect

eke2k6 said:


> . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
> . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
> . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
> . . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
> ...


 
  
 +1


----------



## kenshinhimura

eke2k6 said:


> . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
> . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
> . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
> . . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
> ...


 

 +100


----------



## isendono

This schiit is over 9000


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

eke2k6 said:


> . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
> . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
> . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
> . . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
> ...


 

 +10000


----------



## Transformatron

Schiit... butt.
  
 I'm not good at jokes.


----------



## cthalupa

I leave this thread for a few days, and come back in to find everything is in a world of schiit.


----------



## kstuart

eke2k6 said:


> . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
> . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
> . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
> . . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
> ...


----------



## TheGame

I was just about to buy an Asgard 2, but now I am waiting on this Schiit...
  
 I am pretty sure I have read all of the posts in this thread so if it is posted and I miss it I apologize for that Schiit.
  
 Does the Vali just have RCA ins or does it also have RCA Outs? ( I am assuming at that price point it only has RCA ins) just curious about this I haven't seen a pic of the back of the Vali.


----------



## UmustBKidn

thegame said:


> I was just about to buy an Asgard 2, but now I am waiting on this Schiit...
> 
> I am pretty sure I have read all of the posts in this thread so if it is posted and I miss it I apologize for that Schiit.
> 
> Does the Vali just have RCA ins or does it also have RCA Outs? ( I am assuming at that price point it only has RCA ins) just curious about this I haven't seen a pic of the back of the Vali.


 
  
 The rear of the Schiit Vali looks amazingly like the rear of the Schiit Magni.


----------



## UmustBKidn

The Lineage of the Schiit family...
  
 Jack Schiit is the only son of Awe Schiit who married O. Schiit, the owner of Knee Deep in Schiit Inc.
  
 Jack Schiit married Noe Schiit. The deeply religious couple had six children: Holly Schiit, Giva Schiit, Fulla Schiit, Buell Schiit, and the twins Deep Schiit and Dip Schiit.
  
 Deep Schiit married Dumb Schiit, a high school dropout.
  
 After 15 years, Jack and Noe Schiit got divorced. Noe married Ted Sherlock and became Noe Schiit Sherlock.
  
 Meanwhile, Dip Schiit married Loda Schiit and had a rather nervous deposition named Chicken Schiit.
  
 Fulla Schiit and Giva Schiit married the Happens brothers and had a double wedding. The newspaper invited everyone to the Schiit-Happens wedding.
  
 Bull Schiit traveled the world and returned home with an Italian bride, Pisa Schiit.
  
 Now you can no longer say, you don't know Jack Schiit.


----------



## TheGame

umustbkidn said:


> The rear of the Schiit Vali looks amazingly like the rear of the Schiit Magni.


 

 Aww Schiit! I wish it had RCA outs or an optional upgrade for an extra price to have them included. I also have a powered desktop speaker system and I was hoping I could connect them to the Vali via RCA outs. Not sure what alternative I could use to be able to have my Titanium HD connected to the Vali via RCA inputs and still be able to connect my powered speakers. My speakers do have an Aux in port on it that accepts a 3.5mm input. Would it be possible to use the headphone out port of the Vali to the Aux in of my powered speakers and just switch between headphones and speakers that way? Or is there another way I could make it work? Yes I could just disconnect the RCA's from the Vali and connect my Powered speakers to the sound card's RCA outs directly, the problem is I have high quality gold cables and they are extremely difficult to connect and disconnect (they have a very tight fit), also it is quite troublesome to have to reach back behind the PC and connect/disconnect cables all of the time.
  
 So would simply connecting the headphone out of the Vali to the aux in of my powered speakers do the trick or is there a better way?
  
 Thanks in advance for any help anyone can suggest, sorry about the newb question, I am still new at this Schiit.


----------



## UmustBKidn

thegame said:


> Aww Schiit! I wish it had RCA outs or an optional upgrade for an extra price to have them included. I also have a powered desktop speaker system and I was hoping I could connect them to the Vali via RCA outs. Not sure what alternative I could use to be able to have my Titanium HD connected to the Vali via RCA inputs and still be able to connect my powered speakers. My speakers do have an Aux in port on it that accepts a 3.5mm input. Would it be possible to use the headphone out port of the Vali to the Aux in of my powered speakers and just switch between headphones and speakers that way? Or is there another way I could make it work? Yes I could just disconnect the RCA's from the Vali and connect my Powered speakers to the sound card's RCA outs directly, the problem is I have high quality gold cables and they are extremely difficult to connect and disconnect (they have a very tight fit), also it is quite troublesome to have to reach back behind the PC and connect/disconnect cables all of the time.
> 
> So would simply connecting the headphone out of the Vali to the aux in of my powered speakers do the trick or is there a better way?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help anyone can suggest, sorry about the newb question, I am still new at this Schiit.


 
  
 Hmm. Why would you want to plumb a sound card, into an amp, then into powered speakers? You don't want to double-amp your sound. That will screw it up. I think you're going about this the wrong way. You really don't want to drive powered speakers with a Vali.
  
 What I think you really want is an A-B switch for the sound card output, so you could choose to drive either the powered speakers with it, or the Vali (and into a headphone). Here's a couple examples of an RCA A-B switch (there are a plethora of these things out there, I am not recommending either of these in particular):
  
Sescom RCA Stereo Audio A/B Switch
  
Rolls SS32 MiniRoute 3 Passive Stereo Signal Switcher 3 In/1 Out
  
 So this way, your computer audio is the source for either your speakers or your headphones. You simply switch the AB from supplying input to either the speakers or the Vali, and turn either your speaker amp on, or the headphone amp.
  
 I am not familiar with a Titanium HD sound card. I have no idea how it stacks up against the other DAC's out there. I can see from the ad on NewEgg that it's got two RCA line out jacks, which presumably are what you want to use to drive your system.


----------



## TheGame

Thanks for your advice, and for the links, I really appreciate that. And you are correct, I want to use the RCA Line-out Jacks.
  
 As far as the Titanium HD's DAC, it is probably one of the best DACS out there I could get unless I want start spending $400 or $500 for a DAC. It's capable of sample rates up to 96KHz, 24 bit, SNR 122dB, it uses the Burr-Brown DAC with replaceable Op-amps. I will eventually upgrade to a better one such as an uberfrost, but this is all I have to work with at the moment.
  
 What about, say connecting a 3.5mm jack/cable from the headphone out of the Titanium HD to the Aux in of the powered desktop speakers would that work also? That way I can leave the RCA's connected to the Vali?
  
 In the meantime, I will check out those links you posted, which I very much appreciate you sharing, thank you!


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> The rear of the Schiit Vali looks amazingly like the rear of the Schiit Magni.


 
 Same ole schiit, different day it seem


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> The Lineage of the Schiit family...
> 
> Jack Schiit is the only son of Awe Schiit who married O. Schiit, the owner of Knee Deep in Schiit Inc.
> 
> ...


 
 xD LAWL


----------



## Makiah S

TRIPLE POSTIN THIS SCHIIT


----------



## leesure

thegame said:


> Aww Schiit! I wish it had RCA outs or an optional upgrade for an extra price to have them included. I also have a powered desktop speaker system and I was hoping I could connect them to the Vali via RCA outs. Not sure what alternative I could use to be able to have my Titanium HD connected to the Vali via RCA inputs and still be able to connect my powered speakers. My speakers do have an Aux in port on it that accepts a 3.5mm input. Would it be possible to use the headphone out port of the Vali to the Aux in of my powered speakers and just switch between headphones and speakers that way? Or is there another way I could make it work? Yes I could just disconnect the RCA's from the Vali and connect my Powered speakers to the sound card's RCA outs directly, the problem is I have high quality gold cables and they are extremely difficult to connect and disconnect (they have a very tight fit), also it is quite troublesome to have to reach back behind the PC and connect/disconnect cables all of the time.
> 
> So would simply connecting the headphone out of the Vali to the aux in of my powered speakers do the trick or is there a better way?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help anyone can suggest, sorry about the newb question, I am still new at this Schiit.


 

 Do you need the size of the Magni/Vali?  If not, consider either an Asgard2 or a Lyr.  Both have preamp outputs.  You said you were willing to pay more for the output option, so consider an Asgard.  $249, more and better power than Magni and pre-outs. If you want tubes, it's a larger jump to the Lyr in price, but it opens the world of tube rolling etc.


----------



## Makiah S

leesure said:


> Do you need the size of the Magni/Vali?  If not, consider either an Asgard2 or a Lyr.  Both have preamp outputs.  You said you were willing to pay more for the output option, so consider an Asgard.  $249, more and better power than Magni and pre-outs. If you want tubes, it's a larger jump to the Lyr in price, but it opens the world of tube rolling etc.


 
 Does the Valhalla not have preamp outs?


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Guys any news on when this Schiit is coming out ?


----------



## tdockweiler

gunnerwholelife said:


> Guys any news on when this Schiit is coming out ?


 
  
 Tonight at about 6pm EST.


----------



## moshin29

tdockweiler said:


> Tonight at about 6pm EST.


 
 Is this for real??? *feeling excited*


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Actually, here's the real word: we still don't have enough Valis on the shelf to put the ordering page up. I don't want you to waiting forever after you order for them to ship, so we want to have stock on hand.
  
 Even then, don't be surprised if we go up with a "shipping in 5-7 days" disclaimer, rather than our usual 1-3 days.
  
 That said, I expect the real "go live" day for ordering will be Monday, November 25.


----------



## thegunner100

Whoah, 6pm... I think I may have to buy a Vali to try with my hd800s. I feel like the amp section of the nfb-10es2 is probably its weakest part. Been reading too many good things about the vali on the other side of hi-fi.
  
 Edit: damn, November 25th now >.>


----------



## guerillaw

jason stoddard said:


> Actually, here's the real word: we still don't have enough Valis on the shelf to put the ordering page up. I don't want you to waiting forever after you order for them to ship, so we want to have stock on hand.
> 
> Even then, don't be surprised if we go up with a "shipping in 5-7 days" disclaimer, rather than our usual 1-3 days.
> 
> That said, I expect the real "go live" day for ordering will be Monday, November 25.




Excellent, take your time and thanks for keeping us in the loop!


----------



## isendono

This schiit is getting real


----------



## TheGame

mshenay said:


> Does the Valhalla not have preamp outs?


 
  


leesure said:


> Do you need the size of the Magni/Vali?  If not, consider either an Asgard2 or a Lyr.  Both have preamp outputs.  You said you were willing to pay more for the output option, so consider an Asgard.  $249, more and better power than Magni and pre-outs. If you want tubes, it's a larger jump to the Lyr in price, but it opens the world of tube rolling etc.


 

@Mshenay Unfortunately, the Valhalla does not have preamp outs =(
  
@leesure yes, I was looking at both the Asgard 2 and the Lyr, but after reading this thread I have been very interested in the Vali, and I have been interested in tubes. The Lyr was my main focus because I do want tubes, but if the Vali can drive the HD650's and sound good at the $119 - $129 price point then I am very interested in that.


----------



## K.T.

I'm very much looking forward to the Vali. Hopefully after the delay they won't come back with a higher price.
  
 I just purchased a Schiit Magni/Modi stack and an Asgard 2. They're on their way now. I didn't know about the existence of the Vali until after I made this purchase.
  
 I hate purchasing something and then finding out something better in the price range has just been released soon after. I wonder if that will be the case with the Magni vs the Vali.
  
 Even so, I'll probably still get the Vali if it's all it's cracked up to be. At the price, I would still probably want one.


----------



## leesure

thegame said:


> @Mshenay Unfortunately, the Valhalla does not have preamp outs =(
> 
> @leesure yes, I was looking at both the Asgard 2 and the Lyr, but after reading this thread I have been very interested in the Vali, and I have been interested in tubes. The Lyr was my main focus because I do want tubes, but if the Vali can drive the HD650's and sound good at the $119 - $129 price point then I am very interested in that.


 

 It should drive the HD650's very nicely.  You'll just need a Y-splitter between your computer or DAC and the amp so you can send signal to both the Vali and your powered speakers.
  
 A pair of these should do the trick...
  
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/AudioQuest-Hard-Y-Adapter-1-Male-to-2-Female-RCAs/productinfo/AQM22FHRD/#.Uo55OyRDDTw


----------



## leesure

k.t. said:


> I hate purchasing something and then finding out something better in the price range has just been released soon after. I wonder if that will be the case with the Magni vs the Vali.


 
  
 Better is a subjective thing.  Different for sure.  Better is for you to decide.  Fortunately, you can get both and return the one you don't prefer.


----------



## kstuart

thegame said:


> What about, say connecting a 3.5mm jack/cable from the headphone out of the Titanium HD to the Aux in of the powered desktop speakers would that work also? That way I can leave the RCA's connected to the Vali?


 
 That is definitely worth trying.  In fact, you can just compare connecting the RCA outs to the speakers to connecting the 3.5mm to the speakers and see if there is any sound difference.
  
 And yes, the DAC chip in the TItanium HD is high quality, and you would have to spend at least $350 to get better sound quality and that would be mostly due to being able to use Asynchronous USB connected DAC as opposed to sound card DAC.


----------



## leesure

kstuart said:


> That is definitely worth trying.  In fact, you can just compare connecting the RCA outs to the speakers to connecting the 3.5mm to the speakers and see if there is any sound difference.
> 
> And yes, the DAC chip in the TItanium HD is high quality, and you would have to spend at least $350 to get better sound quality and that would be mostly due to being able to use Asynchronous USB connected DAC as opposed to sound card DAC.




Really? $350? The $99 Modi gives you a high quality 24/96 asynchronous USB DAC.


----------



## kstuart

leesure said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > That is definitely worth trying.  In fact, you can just compare connecting the RCA outs to the speakers to connecting the 3.5mm to the speakers and see if there is any sound difference.
> ...


 
 I didn't say that Asynchronous USB DACs cost $350.   I said that it would cost $350 to get a better DAC than the Titanium HD, and that the Asynchronous USB DAC would be the biggest source of improvement.
  
 Don't read so fast...


----------



## leesure

kstuart said:


> I didn't say that Asynchronous USB DACs cost $350.   I said that it would cost $350 to get a better DAC than the Titanium HD, and that the Asynchronous USB DAC would be the biggest source of improvement.
> 
> Don't read so fast...




I read your post carefully. You wrote that the primary increase in sound quality would come from using an outboard asynchronous USB DAC. You also wrote that the improvement would require a $350 expenditure. I simply pointed out that you can get a high quality asynchronous USB DAC for $99. 

If you wanted to say "that it would cost $350 to get a better DAC than the Titanium HD" then you should write more clearly.


----------



## Transformatron

leesure said:


> I read your post carefully. You wrote that the primary increase in sound quality would come from using an outboard asynchronous USB DAC. You also wrote that the improvement would require a $350 expenditure. I simply pointed out that you can get a high quality asynchronous USB DAC for $99.
> 
> If you wanted to say "that it would cost $350 to get a better DAC than the Titanium HD" then you should write more clearly.


 
 Oh snap!


----------



## kenshinhimura

just kidding


----------



## FallenKnight71

Hello All
  
 First time posting so be gentle.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I just finished reading through this whole thread.  I just got my Schiit Modi today and am waiting hungerly like everyone else here to order the Vali. Apparently Monday Nov.25 is the most likely date I've read from Jason.  I'm keeping my Schiit refreshed every hour or so just for fun
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  For some reason the site won't let me change my avatar so sorry the the lame stock one.
  
 Have fun


----------



## BournePerfect

fallenknight71 said:


> I just finished reading through this whole thread.


 
  
 I feel for ya.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## FallenKnight71

Yes it feels like it has taken me the month and a half since the start of the thread to read all of it.  At least I got some good laughs at the Schiit jokes.
  
 Michael


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Can anyone compare this Schiit to Little Dot mk iii ?


----------



## K.T.

Wow. I've ever experience such anticipation for the launch of a headphone amp. Crazy! Schiit is doing something right!


----------



## wes008

gunnerwholelife said:


> Can anyone compare this Schiit to Little Dot mk iii ?


 
 I am also interested in this comparison, or to the LD 1+


----------



## leesure

gunnerwholelife said:


> Can anyone compare this Schiit to Little Dot mk iii ?




The LD MKIII is a terrific amp with all the warm tube magic. It is, however, an OTL design that cannot deliver enough current to drive low impedance orthos. So the answer depends on what headphones you intend to drive and how tubey you want your sound. 

If you're looking to get some tube magic for your Senn HD's or Beyers, the LD is great. If you have designs on a pair of LCD's or HE's, look elsewhere. The Vali is a fine amp for a broad range of headphones, and I quite enjoyed it with my LCD-2's, but it ain't gonna drive HE-6's either. 

If you're looking for a little of the tube sound (warm mids, round bass, smooth treble), then the Vali will deliver for you.


----------



## Drsparis

leesure said:


> It should drive the HD650's very nicely.  You'll just need a Y-splitter between your computer or DAC and the amp so you can send signal to both the Vali and your powered speakers.
> 
> A pair of these should do the trick...
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/AudioQuest-Hard-Y-Adapter-1-Male-to-2-Female-RCAs/productinfo/AQM22FHRD/#.Uo55OyRDDTw




Would this not degrade the sound quality seeing as the load would be bigger? I'm in a similar predicament. I have a bifrost/lyr combo with a audioengine a5+ in the preout of the lyr. Now I'd like to connect both the vali and the a5+... Not sure what to do. Any ideas folks?


----------



## UmustBKidn

jason stoddard said:


> Actually, here's the real word: we still don't have enough Valis on the shelf to put the ordering page up. I don't want you to waiting forever after you order for them to ship, so we want to have stock on hand.
> 
> Even then, don't be surprised if we go up with a "shipping in 5-7 days" disclaimer, rather than our usual 1-3 days.
> 
> That said, I expect the real "go live" day for ordering will be Monday, November 25.


 
  
 W00t!


----------



## TheGame

jason stoddard said:


> Actually, here's the real word: we still don't have enough Valis on the shelf to put the ordering page up. I don't want you to waiting forever after you order for them to ship, so we want to have stock on hand.
> 
> Even then, don't be surprised if we go up with a "shipping in 5-7 days" disclaimer, rather than our usual 1-3 days.
> 
> That said, I expect the real "go live" day for ordering will be Monday, November 25.


 

 Hi Jason,
  
 I just wanted to say thank you to you and to Schiit for making an affordable tube amp that is a genuine Schiit product. For those on a budget like me who've always wanted a quality Schiit product, the only options for a tube amp until now have been the Vallhala and the Lyr, and while I would love to own either one of those, they are simply out of my budget. So I wanted to thank you great folks at Schiit for making an affordable tube amp for everyone to enjoy, and best of all it is a Schiit! Thank you!


----------



## FallenKnight71

Congrats Purrin!  Your Vali Review is on the Schiit site:
  
 http://schiit.com/news/review/vali
  
 There isn't any other stuff about the Vali on the site that I can find yet so don't rush over


----------



## TMRaven

Oh no.  Schiit linked to the site that must never be mentioned on head-fi, but at the same time head-fi has an obligation to support its sponsors.  What to dooo.


----------



## manucc1

Hello. I have the fidelio x1 headphones. I'm thinking to buy magni and modi, but with the launch of vali, i'm not sure to buy magni.

I read that fidellios have a perfect match with lyr, but it is too expensive to me. Maybe vali is near to lyr than magni in therms of quality?

Do you think that vali will sound much better with fidelios than magni? Do you recommend me wait to vali launchment?

Thank you very much and sorry for my english.


----------



## rreifsn

Holy Schiit, talk about karma.  I've been lurking this thread and following the news on the upcoming Valli and I've been very tempted to order one to try with my HE 400.  But with the holidays coming up I was figuring buying anything for myself might be a little too selfish.  Besides my Asgard 1 and Bifrost Uber were doing a great job keeping me happy.  Then yesterday morning my Asgard died.  No light, no power and no sound.  Both Jason and Nick have told me they will take care of the repair but it looks like my amp will be out for an extended period especially with the rollout and holidays coming up.  I pulled an old pimeta out of the closet to replace my Asgard but it is pretty weak.  Guess I will have to order a Valli after all.  Bad luck allows me to justify doing what I wanted to all along.


----------



## Radio_head

tmraven said:


> Oh no.  Schiit linked to the site that must never be mentioned on head-fi, but at the same time head-fi has an obligation to support its sponsors.  What to dooo.


 

 I doubt HF would strongarm companies against mentioning things on their own site.  Plus, the same text was quoted in the first post of this thread. 
  
 Plus, there are many sites not to be mentioned on HF.  Every time I try to link to backyardnextdoor18yearoldmarriedasiansockpuppetpanachery.com my posts get mysteriously edited or deleted.  It's a totalitarian regime I tell 'ya.


----------



## aamefford

You gotta know I tried that link and looked UP "panachery" right?

For the record, both dictionary.com and urban dictionary return "panachery isn't defined."

Edit - added "UP"

I hate typing on an iPhone!


----------



## Tequilasunriser

radio_head said:


> I doubt HF would strongarm companies against mentioning things on their own site.  Plus, the same text was quoted in the first post of this thread.
> 
> Plus, there are many sites not to be mentioned on HF.  Every time I try to link to backyardnextdoor18yearoldmarriedasiansockpuppetpanachery.com my posts get mysteriously edited or deleted.  It's a totalitarian regime I tell 'ya.




Yeah, JDS labs is a sponsor right? They often mention the most unmentionable of names.


----------



## JoeKickass

fallenknight71 said:


> Congrats Purrin!  Your Vali Review is on the Schiit site:
> 
> http://schiit.com/news/review/vali
> 
> There isn't any other stuff about the Vali on the site that I can find yet so don't rush over


 
 Review is GONE!
  
 You found some secret Shiit!


----------



## purrin

Websites usually have material already completed and placed in a staging area. I assume that maybe some pages in the staging area were inadvertently pushed to production. Or maybe even purposefully pushed to production for an hour for it only to be yanked back, i.e. "intentional leak". There's no conspiracy, weird stuff, or anything of ill-intent going on. Otherwise I'm sure I would have been banned here by now.


----------



## Anavel0

It had a pretty big compliment in it. Buy a Vali and an Abyss and that's it. For $119 we all can try it.


----------



## FallenKnight71

purrin said:


> Websites usually have material already completed and placed in a staging area. I assume that maybe some pages in the staging area were inadvertently pushed to production. Or maybe even purposefully pushed to production for an hour for it only to be yanked back, i.e. "intentional leak". There's no conspiracy, weird stuff, or anything of ill-intent going on. Otherwise I'm sure I would have been banned here by now.


 

  I did see it in the wee hours of the morn.  So probably a test.
  
 Michael


----------



## kcazbarach

so when are these available for purchase? (sorry if already asked)


----------



## 62ohm

kcazbarach said:


> so when are these available for purchase? (sorry if already asked)


 
  
 Should be within this last week of November if things goes well.


----------



## Drsparis

62ohm said:


> Should be within this last week of November if things goes well.


 
 And by that he means tomorrow morning. Theoretically between the hours of 7 and 8 PST.


----------



## BournePerfect

Yep-Jason said roughly 7-8 PST. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## UmustBKidn

rreifsn said:


> Holy Schiit, talk about karma.  I've been lurking this thread and following the news on the upcoming Valli and I've been very tempted to order one to try with my HE 400.  But with the holidays coming up I was figuring buying anything for myself might be a little too selfish.  Besides my Asgard 1 and Bifrost Uber were doing a great job keeping me happy.  Then yesterday morning my Asgard died.  No light, no power and no sound.  Both Jason and Nick have told me they will take care of the repair but it looks like my amp will be out for an extended period especially with the rollout and holidays coming up.  I pulled an old pimeta out of the closet to replace my Asgard but it is pretty weak.  Guess I will have to order a Valli after all.  Bad luck allows me to justify doing what I wanted to all along.


 
  
 That's not Bad Luck my friend, that's Good Luck


----------



## UmustBKidn

purrin said:


> Websites usually have material already completed and placed in a staging area. I assume that maybe some pages in the staging area were inadvertently pushed to production. Or maybe even purposefully pushed to production for an hour for it only to be yanked back, i.e. "intentional leak". There's no conspiracy, weird stuff, or anything of ill-intent going on. Otherwise I'm sure I would have been banned here by now.


 
  
 More likely, just pages uploaded to the web server, without any link to them. Also pretty standard procedure. Except for someone who put one here lol. Jason probably read the post and pulled the page down.
  
 Can't blame them really. They want to be prepared for the inevitable rush.


----------



## jexby

Vali ordered.
 phew.


----------



## DaveUpton

Ordered


----------



## BournePerfect

Ordered.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Solido

Just ordered mine too   Looking forward to hear how this will pair with my HD600.


----------



## FraGGleR

Vali of Schiit, here I come!


----------



## imackler

Ordered! I had http://schiit.com/products/vali on my toolbar for days just in case it went live early.


----------



## jexby

solido said:


> Just ordered mine too   Looking forward to hear how this will pair with my HD600.


 
  
 yup, HD600 are the pair being plugged into my Vali as well.
 now we all get to hurry-up-n-wait for FedEx to arrive-  and see who gets the lowest serial number!


----------



## imackler

jexby said:


> now we all get to hurry-up-n-wait for FedEx to arrive-  and see who gets the lowest serial number!


 
 It might sound odd but I actually ordered priority. It was $2 more, but the USPS has  been really good lately on getting priority delivered in 2 days.


----------



## jbarrentine

Rawr. ordered.


----------



## FallenKnight71

Yeah! I just ordered a Vali. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Now the wait for it.
  
 Michael


----------



## FraGGleR

imackler said:


> It might sound odd but I actually ordered priority. It was $2 more, but the USPS has  been really good lately on getting priority delivered in 2 days.


 
 My USPS carrier hates to ring doorbells apparently.  The FedEx guy actually will ring the doorbell and wait for me to come down the stairs.  I'll deal with the extra day or so


----------



## aamefford

Wow - 8 or 10 of them, and it is just now 8 AM PST.  Looking forward to reports.  If anyone has a pair of MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs, I'd love to hear about that pairing.  If it is really good, it will save me some money (or let me recoup some) over the brand X amp I just ordered.  Now the wait - Enjoy ladies and gentlemen!
  
@FraGGleR, you need to sell that Class T amp to offset this!


----------



## AxelCloris

aamefford said:


> Wow - 8 or 10 of them, and it is just now 8 AM PST.  Looking forward to reports.  If anyone has a pair of MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs, I'd love to hear about that pairing.  If it is really good, it will save me some money (or let me recoup some) over the brand X amp I just ordered.  Now the wait - Enjoy ladies and gentlemen!
> 
> @FraGGleR, you need to sell that Class T amp to offset this!


 
  
 Dan Clark has said that he liked the pairing of the Alpha Dogs and the Vali. So that's a good sign there.


----------



## 45longcolt

Vali ordered.
  
 Though I was tempted to wait for the Rudy special edition.
  
 (You have to be old to get the reference.)
  
 Now where's that Ragnarok, Jason ol' pal?


----------



## aamefford

aamefford said:


> Wow - 8 or 10 of them, and it is just now 8 AM PST.  Looking forward to reports.  If anyone has a pair of MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs, I'd love to hear about that pairing.  If it is really good, it will save me some money (or let me recoup some) over the brand X amp I just ordered.  Now the wait - Enjoy ladies and gentlemen!
> 
> @FraGGleR, you need to sell that Class T amp to offset this!


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> Dan Clark has said that he liked the pairing of the Alpha Dogs and the Vali. So that's a good sign there.


 

 Yep.  Of course it was among others, @mrspeakers comments on the brand X (and a decent deal I ran across) that prompted that purchase...
  
 If anyone in the East (or north close to east) San Francisco Bay area or Sacramento/Yolo county areas buys one, shoot me a PM - we'll have ourselves a little shoot out!


----------



## MickeyVee

This thread is going to explode!!
 Vali ordered.. now the waiting game for USPS to get it to Canada.


----------



## FraGGleR

aamefford said:


> @FraGGleR, you need to sell that Class T amp to offset this!


 
  I know!  I'm still surprised no one has offered yet considering its capabilities and included XLR-banana adapter.


----------



## thegunner100

Ordered... I hope I made the cut!


----------



## CEE TEE

aamefford said:


> If anyone in the East (or north close to east) San Francisco Bay area or Sacramento/Yolo county areas buys one, shoot me a PM - we'll have ourselves a little shoot out!


 
 Ordered at 7:42 am, I can shoot you mine after giving it a shot...then you can bring it back to me at the Bay Area Meet!  (Will make it harder for you to skip out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​)


----------



## mhamel

thegunner100 said:


> Ordered... I hope I made the cut!


 
  
 Ordered... x2.


----------



## thegunner100

My order was at 11:03 actually. But when I ordered, it was still in stock... sooo...


----------



## aamefford

aamefford said:


> Yep.  Of course it was among others, @mrspeakers
> comments on the brand X (and a decent deal I ran across) that prompted that purchase...
> 
> If anyone in the East (or north close to east) San Francisco Bay area or Sacramento/Yolo county areas buys one, shoot me a PM - we'll have ourselves a little shoot out!







fraggler said:


> I know!  I'm still surprised no one has offered yet considering its capabilities and included XLR-banana adapter.




I was close, then bought the brand X instead. Not sure it was the best move. 



cee tee said:


> Ordered at 7:42 am, I can shoot you mine after giving it a shot...then you can bring it back to me at the Bay Area Meet!  (Will make it harder for you to skip out.  ​)




Deal! I'll cover any shipping of course.


----------



## kstuart

aamefford said:


> Wow - 8 or 10 of them, and it is just now 8 AM PST.  Looking forward to reports.  If anyone has a pair of MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs, I'd love to hear about that pairing.  If it is really good, it will save me some money (or let me recoup some) over the brand X amp I just ordered.  Now the wait - Enjoy ladies and gentlemen!
> 
> @FraGGleR, you need to sell that Class T amp to offset this!


 
 Vali ordered, and I live one shipping day away.   If they ship today, I will receive it tomorrow.
  
 I will evaluate with the items in my sig (incl Alpha Dog, Mad Dog 3.2, MA900) and HE-400 (and a pair of basic $30 Senn IEMs just to see how they do with IEMs).


----------



## imackler

kstuart said:


> I will evaluate with the items in my sig (incl Alpha Dog, Mad Dog 3.2, MA900) and HE-400.


 
  
 Can't wait to hear how it does with the 3.2 and Alpha!


----------



## MattTCG

I have no idea why, but I ordered one.


----------



## microphage

in 4 1


----------



## kstuart

matttcg said:


> I have no idea why, but I ordered one.


 

 You can compare to Asgard2, Lyr and Pioneer.   That's some interesting reference points.


----------



## tdockweiler

I ordered mine today and maybe i'll be lucky and have it ship faster than 3-7 days.
  
 I actually bought a new tablet last week and was going to skip the Vali. Guess I couldn't do it..
  
 I'm curious how this does with my Koss Pro DJ100 + M50 pads. I actually think it might improve a little.


----------



## Sweden

If they never come back in stock I will sell mine for $1000 b@tches.


----------



## Barry S

matttcg said:


> I have no idea why, but I ordered one.


 

 Me, too! Now I feel better.


----------



## peter123

Damn, I'm leaving LA for Norway on Friday so I don't think I'll have the nerves to order one before I leave  

Was really hoping to bring one back home....


----------



## eccom

Well I got one as well. I've been pondering tubes for some time, but living in Europe the Bottlehead crack is like 4-5 times more expensive than the Schiit Vali. In the best of worlds I'll have by the end of the week.


----------



## Sweden

peter123 said:


> Damn, I'm leaving LA for Norway on Friday so I don't think I'll have the nerves to order one before I leave
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Don't be such a sissy Scandinavian now. I thought the US would have learnt you how to be a go getter!


----------



## peter123

sweden said:


> Don't be such a sissy Scandinavian now. I thought the US would have learnt you how to be a go getter!




Not only am I a sissy Scandinavian bad actually a sissy Swede  

I know I'll end up with one anyway but it will take much longer and cost the double....


----------



## DemonFox

Ugh stupid Holiday shopping... I really want to try this bad boy but my Vintage gear is just to good to use anything else.. Plus the family... (insert excuse) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Crap... Maybe I'll sell my E12 to cover the cost so its not to much out of pocket... Decisions decisions
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Guys I am still unsure on what to buy - vali or ld mk iii.
Got hd650 and dt880/250 pro.
Those of you who have ordered vali and have prior experience with the mk iii please do post your thoughts.
I want to know which will provide better price/performance.
Thanks.


----------



## moshin29

Just ordered the Vali/Modi combo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Really excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MattTCG

Interested to know how long it takes Schiit to sell this out.


----------



## eccom

peter123 said:


> Not only am I a sissy Scandinavian bad actually a sissy Swede
> 
> I know I'll end up with one anyway but it will take much longer and cost the double....




For once I actually didn't really care about the duties and shipping. It's cheap enough for it to not bankrupt me. It'll soon be in Skåneland


----------



## darinf

kstuart said:


> Vali ordered, and I live one shipping day away.   If they ship today, I will receive it tomorrow.


 
 I wonder if the first orders will ship today? I ordered one this morning and I am one day away too via FedEx Home.
  
 The website says orders placed now will ship in 3-7 days even though they are "in-stock". 
  
 Maybe Jason can let us know if anything will actually ship today...


----------



## AxelCloris

matttcg said:


> Interested to know how long it takes Schiit to sell this out.


 
  
 What is the total number on the production run? I ordered mine around 10:45 EST, so I'll be getting mine. Just curious, really.


----------



## thegunner100

Gonna be using the vali to power the hd600 and hd800. Somehow I think the vali might just be better than the balanced headphone out on the NFB-10es2, based on some impressions that i've read on the other side of the internet xD


----------



## genclaymore

Will the vali be able to drive the DT880 premium 600's, that's the answer I wanna know, as it looks interesting.


----------



## MattTCG

^^115 mw in to 600 ohms should work pretty well.


----------



## Katun

Can't wait to read everyone's impressions! I'll probably pick one up next month.


----------



## elwappo99

katun said:


> Can't wait to read everyone's impressions! I'll probably pick one up next month.


 
  
 If there are any left! I heard the hype train is gonna take most of these units 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, seems as if I'm boarding as well. I ordered mine within the first 30 minutes, so hopefully mine arrives by this weekend for me to post some impressions. I have on hand Q701, K702 anniversary edition, HE500, SA5000, Mad Dogs and dare I say D7000. 
  
 I'll compare against the M-stage and emotiva A-100.


----------



## Achrilidies

Long time lurker(especially this thread), first time poster! Got my order in this morning at about 8:15am. Bring on ze tubes! Also, hi y'all!


----------



## jbarrentine

eccom said:


> Well I got one as well. I've been pondering tubes for some time, but living in Europe the Bottlehead crack is like 4-5 times more expensive than the Schiit Vali. In the best of worlds I'll have by the end of the week.


 
  
 I was thinking if I really like it, it will be my launching pad to something like Project Ember.


----------



## Phishin Phool

jbarrentine said:


> I was thinking if I really like it, it will be my launching pad to something like Project Ember.


 
 I have a project Sunrise II and love it -!! hope to get the embers sometime in the future and pass this one along to my younger brother


----------



## Zojokkeli

eccom said:


> For once I actually didn't really care about the duties and shipping. It's cheap enough for it to not bankrupt me. It'll soon be in Skåneland




While Finland isn't technically a part of Scandinavia, us Nordic folk need to stick together! I feel a terrible need to order the Vali + Modi, someone please convince me not to. My fiance will kill me


----------



## FlySweep

I've ordered the Vali, as well.  My gear is in my sig.  I'm looking forward to comparing the Vali to my Speedballed Crack (it also has an upgraded Alps volume pot, a PS bypass cap & output cap (film) upgrades).


----------



## 4nradio

I saw the hype train coming down the tracks fast, so I jumped on board and ordered. Even if the Vali's not to my liking (also considering the new iFi Nano iCAN amp), the modest 15% restocking fee is a simple way to test the waters.
  
 Having owned a Lyr with NOS Amperex tubes before and enjoyed the sound, the little Vali might be find a permanent home on the shelf however.
  
  
*ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN!*


----------



## BournePerfect

sweden said:


> If they never come back in stock I will sell mine for $1000 b@tches.


 
  
 Why sell it for a grand, when you can sell it for exactly $1649? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 -Daniel


----------



## burnspbesq

zojokkeli said:


> While Finland isn't technically a part of Scandinavia, us Nordic folk need to stick together! I feel a terrible need to order the Vali + Modi, someone please convince me not to. My fiance will kill me




Diamonds are an audiophile's best friend. Half a carat should be enough to keep you out of the doghouse.


----------



## deafanddumb

Is this amp being thought of as genuine compatibility for headphones such as Audeze?


----------



## connieflyer

hojomojo96 said:


> Not sure what to do now. I was originally gonna go for the Project Ember, but hmm... I think I still might, just because of tube rolling, looks, and also variable gain.


 
  
 I am thinking the same along these lines.  Have you decided yet?  I was just going to order the Project Ember when I found this thread.  Using HD650's


----------



## TheGame

I use the HD650's as well, the Vali looks like it will work nicely with it. You can go to Schiit's webpage to look at the specs on the Vali. If you are interested in tube rolling though, Vali may not be for you as you cannot tube roll with it. The Tubes are built-in.


----------



## kstuart

burnspbesq said:


> zojokkeli said:
> 
> 
> > While Finland isn't technically a part of Scandinavia, us Nordic folk need to stick together! I feel a terrible need to order the Vali + Modi, someone please convince me not to. My fiance will kill me
> ...


 

 This guy needed more than half a carat:


----------



## Folthanos

Could anybody tell me whether the Vali would work well with the Beyerdynamic T90? Thanks in advance


----------



## jbarrentine

folthanos said:


> Could anybody tell me whether the Vali would work well with the Beyerdynamic T90? Thanks in advance


 
  
 That's what I'm getting it for, but I won't be able to use it all till Christmas.


----------



## DarknightDK

Ordered!


----------



## Maxx134

Oh schiit! 
Still in stock!(!)
Once you go tubes...
there's no going back!


----------



## imackler

Yes!!! My Vali has shipped


----------



## FraGGleR

imackler said:


> Yes!!! My Vali has shipped


 
 Me too!


----------



## thegunner100

Hmm no shipping confirmation yet... darn! Maybe it'll come later. I'll be going home for the holidays anyways so it doesn't matter too much i guess.


----------



## AxelCloris

imackler said:


> Yes!!! My Vali has shipped


 
  
 Crossing my fingers that mine does the same.


----------



## BournePerfect

Mine shipped. I ordered around 7:40 PST. I paid for USPS Priority, so it should be here Wednesday. Sweet.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## mhamel

Ordered mine around the same time (7:43am PT) but it's showing in my order history as 3:43PM - which would be GMT.... no confirmation of shipping yet.


----------



## FraGGleR

bourneperfect said:


> Mine shipped. I ordered around 7:40 PST. I paid for USPS Priority, so it should be here Wednesday. Sweet.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I think I should have done USPS at this point.  I forgot about Thanksgiving so FedEx Ground might not arrive til next week.


----------



## Zojokkeli

burnspbesq said:


> Diamonds are an audiophile's best friend. Half a carat should be enough to keep you out of the doghouse.


 
 I'll probably have to get her something extra special for christmas. I was never supposed to get in this deep...


----------



## AxelCloris

Huzzah, shipping confirmation. I'll have my new Vali here before my new HD650s it seems.


----------



## darinf

I didn't order mine until 9:00am PST. No shipping confirmation yet. I was hoping to get it before I leave for a Thanksgiving trip...
  
 I wonder how many they have built?


----------



## BournePerfect

fraggler said:


> I think I should have done USPS at this point.  I forgot about Thanksgiving so FedEx Ground might not arrive til next week.


 
  
 I always request this-and I always ship this way as well. It's just seems like the ALWAYS hit their 2-Day mark, and tend to be the cheapest to boot. That said, I send heavy freight type stuff via FedEx as they gave good rates. Hopefully your'd will arrive sooner rather than later.
  
 On another note-someone reaaaally needs to start a new Vali thread once they start getting in people's hands.This thread will be 75+ pages by the time we get anymore hands-on impressions.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## kstuart

darinf said:


> I didn't order mine until 9:00am PST. No shipping confirmation yet. I was hoping to get it before I leave for a Thanksgiving trip...
> 
> I wonder how many they have built?


 

 Yes - ironically, they timed it to give a disadvantage to West Coast people - I was in the shower.


----------



## TheGame

Ah I want that Vali so badly! I wish I could buy it today before they become out-of-stock! Unfortunately I'm going to have to save up a bit before I can afford it


----------



## elwappo99

Also didn't get notification for shipment. Wonder if paying by PayPal slows the process :-\


----------



## Wallboy

What would be more suitable for K701's, Magni or Vali?


----------



## olor1n

I ordered within 30 minutes of the page going live. Still no shipping notification.


----------



## K.T.

I received my Magni a few days ago and just ordered a Vali. I put my order for the Magni before I even knew the Vali existed. Otherwise, I might have just gone with the Vali.

I hope they both have their strengths so that I don't regret buying the Magni. In truth, I've always loved tube sound, so we'll see.

I've only listened to the Magni for about an hour so far. Sounds good, but slightly dry and without that bloom and liquidity that tubes or really good solid state have. Can anyone tell me if the Magni will improve with further use?

For $99, it still seems like a good deal, so I'll probably keep it. I hope it can still play a role in my gear collection once the Vali gets here.

On spec alone, can anyone say whether the Magni is more suited to driving the HE-500 than the Vali? Of course we'll all know very shortly, but what do you think?


----------



## mangler

Looks like I missed the launch, but they're still available so I had to order one. Definitely don't need it but I just couldn't help myself


----------



## kstuart

k.t. said:


> I've only listened to the Magni for about an hour so far. Sounds good, but slightly dry and without that bloom and liquidity that tubes or really good solid state have. Can anyone tell me if the Magni will improve with further use?
> 
> For $99, it still seems like a good deal, so I'll probably keep it. I hope it can still play a role in my gear collection once the Vali gets here.
> 
> On spec alone, can anyone say whether the Magni is more suited to driving the HE-500 than the Vali? Of course we'll all know very shortly, but what do you think?


 
 Jason recommends a burn-in of 50-100 hours on both the Magni and the Vali.  It should improve somewhat, however your description is in-line with what I remember hearing from the Magni.   The Magni is about the best you can do with $99, but it's only $99 worth of amp.


----------



## hmorneau

I have ordered one, at that price it's a no brainer.
  
 I have never listened to a tube amp before, so I hope I will like the "tube" sound. And for the first time "burn-in" will have a real non-placebo effect


----------



## GBechz

thegame said:


> Ah I want that Vali so badly! I wish I could buy it today before they become out-of-stock! Unfortunately I'm going to have to save up a bit before I can afford it




I'm with you there. Hopefully they'll have some in stock when I'm ready to buy after I reassess my finances post-holiday shopping.


----------



## BournePerfect

elwappo99 said:


> Also didn't get notification for shipment. Wonder if paying by PayPal slows the process :-\


 
 I paid via PayPal at 7:40 AM PST-but the Schiit site for my invoice says 3:41PM, with my 'shipped' confirmation email arriving at 3:54 PM. Obviously there's a delay with orders posted in their system-but probably in order from how the que'd up when the order page went live. My best guesstimation. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## ravager

Can't wait to try with the Modi and HD650. Christmas is coming early!


----------



## 62ohm

This thread, is not helping me on preserving my wallet...
  
 Vali......To be, or not to be...
  
  
  
  
  
 To be it is


----------



## Solido

My order went through at 742 AM PST, and shipped at 356 PM. I'm just glad it shipped today given the flood of orders they are seeing. I ordered HD600s off Rakuten the day before that, and that order is still processing


----------



## Gorillaz

WoW what a bunch of weak minded people here praising and buying this Vali amp based on stupid hype, having said that I ordered mine 12 hours ago!


----------



## mhamel

solido said:


> My order went through at 742 AM PST, and shipped at 356 PM. I'm just glad it shipped today given the flood of orders they are seeing. I ordered HD600s off Rakuten the day before that, and that order is still processing


 
  
 7:43am here and no shipping.   So either it was just that close to making the cut or they aren't necessarily shipping Fiirst-In-First-Out.   I was hoping it would make it out today to get it for Friday as I'm probably having a mini-meet here this coming weekend to compare several amps / DACs / cans.


----------



## Barry S

I'm buying mine purely for the microphonics.


----------



## achristilaw

After a few choruses of "Wad' da' he-ll" "Wad' da'...... " I ordered one


----------



## TonyRS

Should I pull the trigger on the Vali?


----------



## AxelCloris

tonyrs said:


> Should I pull the trigger on the Vali?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## Darknet

tonyrs said:


> Should I pull the trigger on the Vali?


 
 lol why ask when you already know the answers .
  
 Anyways looking to the reviews and impressions that should be coming in the next few days. After all that pre-release hype hopefully it will be as good as people are expecting!


----------



## BournePerfect

Lol at the hype train and people riding the fence. IT"S $119. Experience it firsthand-and resale it for a very minimal loss if it doesn't satisfy you. Some of the comments around here make it sound like we're investing in a $1500 unproven amp here on a whim. Sheesh.
  
 That said: blame Marv. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## Kamakahah

Head-Fi has been great at testing my resolve, especially when I have money to burn. Now is one of those times and the Vali is calling.

Luckily I scored a sweet deal today. I can wait for the reviews. Looking forward to those with the Mad Dogs comments.


----------



## jbarrentine

Mine's shipping


----------



## oddsocks

Just pulled the trigger on these as well. Can't wait to compare with the Magni.


----------



## wnmnkh

Sigh, my wallet. Ordered.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

!!!* For the love of god, can someone do a pre-received shipment impression!!! *

Seriously I want to know how these sound.


----------



## swannie007

Just ordered mine! I also ordered the Magni/Modi combo a few days ago!
It's gonna be a great Xmas.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Time can't go fast enough


----------



## TheGame

zojokkeli said:


> Time can't go fast enough


 

 No Kidding, it is even worse for me as I have to save up for it! I wish I could be one of the lucky ones who could purchase it now! Congrats to all who were able to get it ordered already!


----------



## leesure

k.t. said:


> I received my Magni a few days ago and just ordered a Vali. I put my order for the Magni before I even knew the Vali existed. Otherwise, I might have just gone with the Vali.
> 
> I hope they both have their strengths so that I don't regret buying the Magni. In truth, I've always loved tube sound, so we'll see.
> 
> ...




http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/540#post_9930077

And yes, the Vali will struggle a little with the HE-500's as they are not quite as efficient at the LCD's.


----------



## x838nwy

I'm trying very hard not to buy one. Very. Hard.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

In case y'all didn't know, the Vali is out now.


----------



## wahsmoh

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> In case y'all didn't know, the Vali is out now.


 
 SHHHHH don't tell everyone I'm still deciding if my wallet is willing to give in. This is tough, I own an A2 already and I've only heard the Vali once at a meet...


----------



## gelocks

I'm definitely going to wait for feedback especially regarding the use of the Vali with headphones that range from 30Ohm to 100Ohms...
  
 So, please chime in with your set-ups once you start receiving them!


----------



## Abovetheair

This reminds me of the whole Fiio E7/E9 combo.


----------



## K.T.

leesure said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/540#post_9930077
> 
> And yes, the Vali will struggle a little with the HE-500's as they are not quite as efficient at the LCD's.


 
 OK, thank you. Didn't see your comparison the first time around
  
 Well, it falls into that classic tube vs solid state sound comparison. Tubes: warm, smooth sound with liquid mids and highs but looser, muddier bass. Solid state: good control of bass and more neutral sounding, but relatively drier and stiffer sounding.
  
Of course, both can sound awesome as you get into the better examples of each type. But sounds about right generally.
  
I'm a big tube fan myself, so I'm thinking the Vali will be right up my alley. But I'll probably hang onto the Magni to use with my warmer sounding cans.
  
I'm really curious to see if folks start trying various solutions to tame the microphonics in the tubes. Like apply some sort of damping material, etc. In my experience, doing that sort of thing can make a difference in the sound, for better or worse.
  
I'm correct that the Vali has a tubed input stage, but that the output stage is solid state?


----------



## Tuco1965

Sure looks like a lot of you are going to be walking through the Vali of Schiit real soon.  Looking forward to hearing about everyone's experience with it.


----------



## thegunner100

Vali shipped! Though I won't be getting it next monday due to the holidays.


----------



## aamefford

sweden said:


> Or there are people having an 80s themed party dancing to Tom Tom Club  with the smoke machine on full blast having the time of their life.


 

 Oh dang!   I want to do that!


----------



## JoeKickass

"Thank you for your order. We wanted to let you know that your order has been *shipped*. We hope our service has been great!"
  
 How sweet it is!


----------



## Abovetheair

Sorry for not being knowledgable about hybrid amps, but if the tube goes out after lets say a year and a half, would we have to send it off to Schiit and pay to have it fixed?


----------



## Sweden

I still haven't got a shipped notification and I ordered one 26 hours ago.


----------



## DaveUpton

I received my shipped notification last night, so I think you may be in the second batch then.


----------



## Anavel0

abovetheair said:


> Sorry for not being knowledgable about hybrid amps, but if the tube goes out after lets say a year and a half, would we have to send it off to Schiit and pay to have it fixed?




Correct, but they do come with a warranty. I just don't remember how long. Also, I believe Jason said the life of the tube is over 5 years, if you read back through this thread.


----------



## Sweden

daveupton said:


> I received my shipped notification last night, so I think you may be in the second batch then.


 
  
 Second batch.....? NOOOO!!!


----------



## kstuart

kamakahah said:


> Head-Fi has been great at testing my resolve, especially when I have money to burn. Now is one of those times and the Vali is calling.
> 
> Luckily I scored a sweet deal today. I can wait for the reviews. Looking forward to those with the Mad Dogs comments.


 
 I have the Mad Dog and Alpha Dog (and HE-400) and I just received a shipping notice for the Vali, so I should have it Wednesday, if previous patterns hold


----------



## kstuart

abovetheair said:


> Sorry for not being knowledgable about hybrid amps, but if the tube goes out after lets say a year and a half, would we have to send it off to Schiit and pay to have it fixed?


 

 Jason mentioned earlier in the thread that there will be servicing available.   In other words, if the tube goes out before 1 year, send it back and fixed for free (see warranty for exact details).  If after a year, send it back and fixed for a fee.


----------



## kstuart

The details:


----------



## burnspbesq

gelocks said:


> I'm definitely going to wait for feedback especially regarding the use of the Vali with headphones that range from 30Ohm to 100Ohms...
> 
> So, please chime in with your set-ups once you start receiving them!




I tried the prototype at the SD show. It was fully capable of driving HD 800 well into the Hearing Loss Zone.


----------



## BournePerfect

mhamel said:


> This. ^^  Because joking or not, it's way off-topic and just asking to get the thread closed.


 
  
 Closing this thread would actually be perfect timing. We need a real impressions thread instead of wading through 1,000+ posts of no impressions. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Ordered with Modi


----------



## tdockweiler

nic rhodes said:


> Ordered with Modi


 
  
 Good idea. More people should do this. I'm sure it will be a good combo. I have the Modi here already to try it with.
  
 FYI if anyone that cares, I ordered mine on Monday at around 10:30am PST (I think) and got a shipping notice at 3:20 today.
 I kind of wish I spent the money for next day delivery! Probably will get it on Friday.
  
 LOL I bet for Thanksgiving Jason will be like that guy at the end of the credits of "Planes, Trains and Automobiles". Go watch it if you haven't.


----------



## Abovetheair

Loki or Modi to pair with this?


----------



## kstuart

abovetheair said:


> Loki or Modi to pair with this?


 
  
 Loki is DSD files only, Modi is all other files.


----------



## kstuart

Schiit's Vali FAQ for those too lazy to go to the web site:
  


> *Wait, hold on a sec. You have Magni. Why did you suddenly do a bizarre little tube amp? Did you hit your head?*
> Why do people climb Everest? Why do they spend $25,000 customizing a $2500 car? Why do people take salsa dancing lessons? Does there have to be a reason for everything? Bottom line, we were playing around with these little tubes, put together something for fun, and thought it sounded good. When we figured we could do a little tube hybrid for a little more than Magni, we figured you might think it was pretty cool, too.
> *But…a $119 tube hybrid amp? Now we know you’re cutting corners!*
> No, not really. Even at $119, we have a custom chassis, a real high-voltage supply, and a solid Class AB discrete output stage. The tubes we use are NOS JAN (military spec) Raytheon 6088s.
> ...


----------



## tdockweiler

Is there anyone that actually makes a wall wart for this that's made in the USA? I bet it'd be $60+ though and basically a waste of money.
 I'm really only curious.


----------



## darinf

daveupton said:


> I received my shipped notification last night, so I think you may be in the second batch then.


 
 I ordered mine at 9:00am PST yesterday. I received a shipping notice today at 11:20am PST. But I guess they haven't been picked up by FedEx yet since FedEx has no record of the tracking number.
  
 Mine should arrive tomorrow, but I have to leave town before FedEx generally delivers. AARGH! I guess I will have to wait until after the weekend to get it.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

I'm waiting on the real life Grado pairing results... Slowly waiting. Also, great FAQ Jason, jolly good read.


----------



## AladdinSane

If this is a good solution for HD600 and Grado it would be a good option for my home headphone world. Waiting for impressions.


----------



## kstuart

darinf said:


> daveupton said:
> 
> 
> > I received my shipped notification last night, so I think you may be in the second batch then.
> ...


 

 Darin I also ordered at 9am and received shipping notice this morning and just now, the USPS tracking finally shows something "Acceptance" in Valencia at 4:49pm (it took over an hour to show up in the tracking).


----------



## M-13

Now that the Vali is in play. Where is my Lyr 2 Jason?


----------



## achristilaw

My Schitt is in the mail..... all hail the mail.


----------



## mrscotchguy

m-13 said:


> Now that the Vali is in play. Where is my Lyr 2 Jason?
> :evil:




+1


----------



## TheGame

Just found out I should be able to purchase a Vali on Tuesday, I just hope with all of my might that they are still in stock by then


----------



## RMiller

Quote:


x838nwy said:


> I'm trying very hard not to buy one. Very. Hard.


 
  
 I tried the same and I failed. Good luck


----------



## TheGame

HI everyone, sorry again for posting so soon after my last post but something just occurred to me. If I am lucky enough that the Vali is still in stock this coming Tuesday and I purchase it, I was wondering how I would go about getting the most out of it in terms of hearing it properly through my *Creative Titanium HD -> Vali -> Sennheiser HD650's*.
  
 What I mean by that is, I am using a Creative Titanium HD as my Soundcard/DAC, and it is already capable of driving 300ohm cans (according to the spec sheet on it, but I still found I needed an amp to get a decent volume level that I liked, therefore I purchased a FiiO E09K). I eventually want to get a Uberfrost, but that will have to wait for awhile as I am on a tight budget.
  
 I'm sorry if I am not explaining myself very well, but my question is, when I get the Vali, should I have the volume on the Titanium HD set really low and use the Vali's volume to control the volume to the HD650's to be able to really hear the amp well? If not, how should I set the Vali up with the Titanium HD as far as settings go? I will be connecting the Vali with some pretty high quality RCA cables from the RCA Outs of the Titanium HD to the RCA inputs on the Vali, then connecting the HD650's to the Vali.
  
 Any suggestions on how I can get the most sound out of the Vali when connected to the Titanium HD Soundcard?
  
 Thanks for any help/tips and/or advice anyone can offer. You guys rock!


----------



## BleaK

thegame said:


> Any suggestions on how I can get the most sound out of the Vali when connected to the Titanium HD Soundcard?


 

 Always max out the volume on your PC(soundcard) and software. I am guessing the Vali would be a nice upgrade and play well with the HD650.


----------



## JohnBal

I think you could get a pair of RCA interconnects and go from the L and R outputs on the soundcard to the RCA inputs on the amp. Should be fine.


----------



## MattTCG

Mine is showing delivery for Tuesday.


----------



## conheo

Can't wait for Vali comes down to Australia.
  
 More impression Vali > HD800 please


----------



## AxelCloris

matttcg said:


> Mine is showing delivery for Tuesday.


 
  
 Mine's saying Saturday. Bah, FedEx is slow but cheaper.


----------



## Zojokkeli

axelcloris said:


> Mine's saying Saturday. Bah, FedEx is slow but cheaper.




Mine hasn't even been shipped yet, and it's been around 40 hours since I ordered it.


----------



## ninjames

First time on Head-Fi in a few months I think .. been loving my Magni + Modi with my HE-400. Interested in the Vali, does it actually give tube sound? Is it warm? I'm sorry, I am going to go back and read through the thread now, I just have about $100 to burn and would love to add a Vali to my stack to switch up the sound. It can drive the HE-400, right? Any impressions specifically to those, or with a Modi, or in comparison to the Magni?
  
 I imagine I'll find all this out when I go back to read the thread but I'm at work. Ahhh! I've been back for FIVE MINUTES YOU GUYS. WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME


----------



## munchzilla

it's said on the first few pages - yes, it's a great pairing for HE-400. no it isn't super syrup tube sound. but has the best parts of good t00b sound.
 and yes, buy it


----------



## K.T.

bleak said:


> Always max out the volume on your PC(soundcard) and software. I am guessing the Vali would be a nice upgrade and play well with the HD650.


 
  
 Hmmm.... I didn't know it was best to max out the volume setting. I'll take a look at your tutorial for more information.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## kstuart

My Vali is plugged in and warming up (I'm driving distance from Schiit, and my postal carrier wanted to get done early due to Thanksgiving) - I'm going to give it another half hour or so, and then listen to it (as mentioned) with Alpha Dogs, Mad Dogs, HE-400, MA-900, and a quick try of Senn IEMs.   Then compare to vintage amp and another brand of hybrid tube amp.
  
 BTW, there was a loud high pitched squeal at first that would increase if you tapped the case - and then went away, so I am assuming that is the infamous "microphonics".


----------



## NguyenAdam

Has anyone tested these with the DT 990s yet? I'm debating whether or not to get the Magni or the Vali.


----------



## leesure

kstuart said:


> My Vali is plugged in and warming up (I'm driving distance from Schiit, and my postal carrier wanted to get done early due to Thanksgiving) - I'm going to give it another half hour or so, and then listen to it (as mentioned) with Alpha Dogs, Mad Dogs, HE-400, MA-900, and a quick try of Senn IEMs.   Then compare to vintage amp and another brand of hybrid tube amp.
> 
> BTW, there was a loud high pitched squeal at first that would increase if you tapped the case - and then went away, so I am assuming that is the infamous "microphonics".


 
 Looking forward to your impressions.
  
 I wouldn't describe the microphonic sound as a squeal.  It's more like a ring that slowly decays away over a minute.  It can be renewed by a tapping on the case/


----------



## imackler

kstuart said:


> My Vali is plugged in and warming up (I'm driving distance from Schiit, and my postal carrier wanted to get done early due to Thanksgiving) - I'm going to give it another half hour or so, and then listen to it (as mentioned) with Alpha Dogs, Mad Dogs, HE-400, MA-900, and a quick try of Senn IEMs.   Then compare to vintage amp and another brand of hybrid tube amp.
> 
> BTW, there was a loud high pitched squeal at first that would increase if you tapped the case - and then went away, so I am assuming that is the infamous "microphonics".


 
  
 Can't wait to hear your thoughts with the Mad Dogs and Alpha Dog!


----------



## kazsud

maxx134 said:


> I want my vali..
> 
> It is calling me from the warehouse.
> 
> I must buy...



 


Lmao


----------



## MattTCG

My dad and I are putting together a few isolation blocks to go with the Vali. I'm thinking that it might tame the noise a bit. If not, it will look nice as they are made from a piece of oak. I'll add some nice metal footers to match.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

mine is shipping


----------



## Gorillaz

matttcg said:


> My dad and I are putting together a few isolation blocks to go with the Vali. I'm thinking that it might tame the noise a bit. If not, it will look nice as they are made from a piece of oak. I'll add some nice metal footers to match.



can you post a picture of what you've done so far I was thinking of doing he same thing., please.


----------



## MattTCG

It's still pretty rough...but give me a few.


----------



## ninjames

So this noise that people are talking about are only when it's touched and on startup? And it's by design?


----------



## Gorillaz

ninjames said:


> So this noise that people are talking about are only when it's touched and on startup? And it's by design?



I was skeptical about buying it because its posible noise floor but for $119 and its 15 days return policy I pulled the trigger if I can't handle the noise floor I will just return it!


----------



## Warmuth327

Alright, please don't beat me to death or laugh at this question 
  
 New to the headphone game and just last month bought myself a starter system of Modi/Magni/HE-400's and am enjoying it very much.  Now I have never listened to a tube amp, but interested, especially the new Vali.
  
 My question is this...since I have built myself a nice little enclosure that precludes me from getting behind the stack easily to change cables around, what would you suggest as the best option - just  Y-split the RCAs from the DAC and run a set to each of the amps?  Or is there a more elegant/higher sound quality way of doing this?
  
 Thanks for your help.
 Darren


----------



## K.T.

kstuart said:


> My Vali is plugged in and warming up (I'm driving distance from Schiit, and my postal carrier wanted to get done early due to Thanksgiving) - I'm going to give it another half hour or so, and then listen to it (as mentioned) with Alpha Dogs, Mad Dogs, HE-400, MA-900, and a quick try of Senn IEMs.   Then compare to vintage amp and another brand of hybrid tube amp.
> 
> BTW, there was a loud high pitched squeal at first that would increase if you tapped the case - and then went away, so I am assuming that is the infamous "microphonics".


 
  
 Yes, and let us know about the HE-400s, too!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

kstuart said:


> - I'm going to give it another half hour or so, and then listen to it (as mentioned) with Alpha Dogs, Mad Dogs, HE-400, MA-900, and a quick try of Senn IEMs.   Then compare to vintage amp and another brand of hybrid tube amp.




+1 on he400 and vali pairing


----------



## GBechz

As someone who is new to head-fi, and has also read all 1085 posts in this thread, I agree with others on here that a new thread for Vali impressions would be excellent. It would certainly help others interested in the Vali in the future (this opinion is based off my interest and subsequent overwhelming by the orthodynamic thread).


----------



## kstuart

I warmed them up with the MA-900s (simply because they were the cheapest of the four, in case the brand new amp did something weird 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ), so since they are sensitive to jostling (required to change headphones), I tried the MA-900s first as long as they were already connected.
  
 I am little less familiar with the MA-900s than the others, so impressions of the amp's sound will come from other phones, BUT I can say that the Vali works very well with the MA-900s - no pairing issues.  Since the MA-900s are so sensitive, I could not get beyond 12 o'clock on the knob.  Plenty of bass quantity on the MA-900s with the Vali.  Vocals are particularly nice.  So far, no issues at all other than the microphonics thing (which I think is discussed much earlier in the thread).
  
 So, MattTCG will be glad to hear that the Vali works as well with the MA-900s as either works with other amps or headphones.   If the microphonics and overall tube sound are acceptable than the Vali is a nice pairing with the MA-900s.
  
 HE-400s next.


----------



## Katun

Curious about the HD700 + Vali pairing. Wonder if anyone plans on trying it.


----------



## kstuart

Okay, HE-400 with Vali.  Note that Jason recommends 50-100 hours of burn-in for the Vali before evaluating, so the following is "provisional".
  
 Both Julius (of Headfonia) and I found the *Magni* to be slightly low on bass quantity when used with the HE-400, and the sound with that pairing to be *slightly* bright.
  
 With the *Vali*, I am finding the opposite - plenty of bass quantity, and slightly low on "air".  It has plenty of bass with the MA-900, so maybe that is the Vali signature, but too early to say that.
  
 No issues with using the Vali with the HE-400s.  I am not yet comparing the Vali to other amps, so I can't yet say if the Vali is better or worse for the HE-400 than my other amps.
  
 On to the Alpha Dogs, and there I will have some recent memory of their sound on my other amps without having to plug/unplug...


----------



## dleblanc343

katun said:


> Curious about the HD700 + Vali pairing. Wonder if anyone plans on trying it.


 
 my co-worker got his Vali, we could try it out at work friday with the HD700.
  
 I'll also try out the Vali with the Alpha Dogs and HE500/HE6/HD800


----------



## MattTCG

kstuart said:


> I warmed them up with the MA-900s (simply because they were the cheapest of the four, in case the brand new amp did something weird
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the impressions with the ma900. That is VERY encouraging to hear that there is no issue with such a sensitive hp. Very impressive actually.


----------



## amigastar

Hello,
  
 since i'm interested in the Vali amp, i wanted to ask when it becomes available in Europe?
 Basically with all the hype surrounding it i've became interested, lol.
  
 Stupid Question: would it be some sort of upgrade to my Matrix M-Stage amp, or are the differences rather neglectable?
 thanks


----------



## kstuart

Okay now Alpha Dog and Mad Dog with Vali.  Note that Jason recommends 50-100 hours of burn-in for the Vali before evaluating, so the following is "provisional".
  
 So far, the Vali is kind of "meh" with the Alpha Dog.  This could be due to that not being a good pairing (the Alpha Dog seems to work best with more powerful and/or more expensive amps), or it could be due to the burn-in issue (Schiit are often derisive and satirical about some of the audiophile stuff on their web site, but Jason reiterated his 50-100 hour opinion for both Magni and Vali, so I am going to assume that he hears a difference, and since he works with them full time, it seems reasonable to take his word for it.)
  
 So far, I do hear the lack of air with the Alpha Dog, and a lack of micro detail.  If this is still present after the burn-in, then I would conclude that the Alpha Dog works best with equally flat and neutral amps (meaning that if the amp lacks air or any other treble presence, then the Alpha Dog will reproduce that, and if the amp is overly bright, then the Alpha Dog will reproduce that.
  
 The Vali works better with the Mad Dog. it seems closer to what I remember hearing with other amps, after playing my test tracks.  I don't know whether that is simply due to the fact that "air" is not a strong point of the Mad Dog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or other factors.   It could also be that the amp is warming up and burning in more.
  
 So far, my *preliminary* impression is that - in terms of sound quality - the Vali is at least as good as any other amp in the $119 range for the MA-900 and the Mad Dog.
  
 I will have to compare to other amps, and also wait the 50 hours, before I can come to a conclusion about the HE-400 and the Alpha Dog, and also as to whether the Vali is significantly better than the Magni.  So far, my guess is that it is priced accurately, and that significantly more expensive amps would give a little better detail and clarity.


----------



## RMiller

kstuart said:


> I am little less familiar with the MA-900s than the others, so impressions of the amp's sound will come from other phones, BUT I can say that the Vali works very well with the MA-900s - no pairing issues.  Since the MA-900s are so sensitive, I could not get beyond 12 o'clock on the knob.  Plenty of bass quantity on the MA-900s with the Vali.  Vocals are particularly nice.  So far, no issues at all other than the microphonics thing (which I think is discussed much earlier in the thread).


 
  
 Thanks for the MA-900 info, they are not that sensitive as the specs on paper might seem, but good to hear there was no issues


----------



## thegunner100

Perhaps the Vali is just not good for the t50rp drivers. More burn-in and impressions will tell I suppose.


----------



## BournePerfect

Speaking of burnin-generally it's a bad idea to leave tube amps on nonstop for a number of reasons. I'm wondering with this small pencil-tube Vali if it's ok to leave on longer-say 24 hours here and there?  Tube life concerns aside.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## TheGame

bleak said:


> Always max out the volume on your PC(soundcard) and software. I am guessing the Vali would be a nice upgrade and play well with the HD650.


 

 Thank you BleaK for your reply and advice, I really appreciate that! I did as you said and maxed out the volume on my soundcard (Titanium HD) and in JRiver MC (My media player software) where I am using WASAPI mode. When doing that I noticed that I barely had to turn up the volume on the FiiO E09K for it to be very loud. When doing that, the sound didn't seem as clean and tight as when I have a low volume on the soundcard, and the FiiO E09K turned up about half-way. Is this because the FiiO is a cheaper, solid-state amp and it will sound better using your method with a tube amp like the Vali? And being a new guy in the audiophile world, can you explain the benefit of having the Titanium HD's volume maxed before running it to an amp? Wouldn't that mean that I am getting more sound from the actual Titanium HD rather than the amp since I barely have to turn up the volume on the amp to get it to a good listening level? (Sorry if these are stupid questions, I am still a learner trying to learn from the masters).
  
 Thank you again for your reply and help!


----------



## thegunner100

thegame said:


> Thank you BleaK for your reply and advice, I really appreciate that! I did as you said and maxed out the volume on my soundcard (Titanium HD) and in JRiver MC (My media player software) where I am using WASAPI mode. When doing that I noticed that I barely had to turn up the volume on the FiiO E09K for it to be very loud. When doing that, the sound didn't seem as clean and tight as when I have a low volume on the soundcard, and the FiiO E09K turned up about half-way. Is this because the FiiO is a cheaper, solid-state amp and it will sound better using your method with a tube amp like the Vali? And being a new guy in the audiophile world, can you explain the benefit of having the Titanium HD's volume maxed before running it to an amp? Wouldn't that mean that I am getting more sound from the actual Titanium HD rather than the amp since I barely have to turn up the volume on the amp to get it to a good listening level? (Sorry if these are stupid questions, I am still a learner trying to learn from the masters).
> 
> Thank you again for your reply and help!


 

 Try using low gain.


----------



## TheGame

Alright I will try that as I do have the high gain switch engaged on the amp. Thank you for your reply


----------



## ninjames

So is there not a whole lot of play on the volume knob like the Magni? I've been using the Harrison Labs attenuator pair with no issues on my Magni since launch. I assume I'll need to use them with the Vali as well.


----------



## MattTCG

Homemade isolation platform. Rough cut. Sorry can't seem to upload pics.


----------



## jimmers

conheo said:


> Can't wait for Vali comes down to Australia.


 
 So you can pay twice the price?
http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/schiit-audio-vali-tube-hybrid-headphone-amplifier
  
 (but you do get free shipping)


----------



## TheGame

thegunner100 said:


> Try using low gain.


 

 Hi thegunner100,
  
 Thank you again for your suggestion. I did as you recommended and switch the FiiO E09K Amp to low-gain, then proceeded to turn my soundcard and JRiver MC 19's volume to the max and just adjusting the volume with the FiiO E09K. When I did that, even at low volume levels there is a lot of distortion and the music files sound awful. Am I doing something wrong? Others suggested the same thing in different threads with people using internal soundcards with amps to max out the volume of the soundcard and your media player software, but when I do that, even on low-gain as you have suggested, the music files are really distorted and sound really bad.
  
 If I am doing something wrong can you help me try to figure out what the problem could be? I am simply connecting a decent pair of RCA cables http://www.amazon.com/SonicWaveandtrade-Channel-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B009D4Y47O/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385607564&sr=1-2&keywords=6ft+SonicWaveandtrade%3B+Dual+Channel+RCA+Stereo+Audio+Cable (not the best, but that's all I could afford) to the RCA Line-Outs on The Titanium HD to the RCA AUX-IN on the FiiO Amp (The only RCA inputs they have). I am at a loss as why the sound files I play at Max volume are distorted using the method you and others have suggested. The only way that I have found that sounds good is to have the volume one the Titanium HD turned down, and to turn up the volume of the amp. I am at a loss.
  
 Any ideas what could be causing this anyone? Thank you in advance!
  
*P.S.* _I know this is the Vali thread, but the reason I am posting this here is because I intend on getting a Vali within the next few days and want to make sure I can hear the amp with my Sennheiser HD650's to the Vali's full potential_.


----------



## thegunner100

Hmm, make sure that the sound card is only being used as a dac for the RCA and that the amp on it is not being used. Also make sure all the DSP and other effects on the titanium HD are turned off. You could try setting the sound card's volume to 90-95% instead of 100. It could be clipping at 100%, im not sure.


----------



## TheGame

thegunner100 said:


> Hmm, make sure that the sound card is only being used as a dac for the RCA and that the amp on it is not being used. Also make sure all the DSP and other effects on the titanium HD are turned off. You could try setting the sound card's volume to 90-95% instead of 100. It could be clipping at 100%, im not sure.


 

 Thank you again for the reply. I have all enhancements and other effects disabled. The only setting I have it on is Headphones. And could you tell me how I can make the Titanium HD used only as a DAC with RCA without the Titanium HD's amp being used? Thank you once again for all of your help so far, I really appreciate it.


----------



## thegunner100

thegame said:


> Thank you again for the reply. I have all enhancements and other effects disabled. The only setting I have it on is Headphones. And could you tell me how I can make the Titanium HD used only as a DAC with RCA without the Titanium HD's amp being used? Thank you once again for all of your help so far, I really appreciate it.


 

 Perhaps someone else can help you with that, as I am not familiar with sound cards. Would be best to start a new thread for that.


----------



## mhamel

thegame said:


> Thank you again for the reply. I have all enhancements and other effects disabled. The only setting I have it on is Headphones. And could you tell me how I can make the Titanium HD used only as a DAC with RCA without the Titanium HD's amp being used? Thank you once again for all of your help so far, I really appreciate it.


 
  
 I believe the Titanium's headphone out is amplified, which would explain why it's clipping when you're trying to use it at full volume into another device's line in.   Use the "Line Out" on the sound card, not the "Headphone Out"
  
   -Mike


----------



## TheGame

Thank you very much for all of your input and suggestions, I really appreciate all of your help, thank you!


----------



## TheGame

mhamel said:


> I believe the Titanium's headphone out is amplified, which would explain why it's clipping when you're trying to use it at full volume into another device's line in.   Use the "Line Out" on the sound card, not the "Headphone Out"
> 
> -Mike


 

 Thank you for that advice, I never thought of that. I do use RCA Cables from the Line-outs of the Titanium HD Soundcard to the RCA-ins on the FiiO , but I do have the Titanium HD's software set to headphones. Should I change that setting in the software to 2 or 2.1 speakers instead of headphones when using the soundcard's Line-Outs? I will give that a try and get back with you probably by PM since this is really the thread for the Vali, I just wanted to be sure I had my soundcard setup correctly for when I do finally get the Vali to use as my amp to the Vali's true potential! Thank you all for your suggestions and help!


----------



## 62ohm

I believe the Head-Fi community is equally helpful on emptying your wallet as they are on solving problems


----------



## TonyRS

Post impressions with LCD2 once you guys receive the Vali please 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Super excited to get mine!


----------



## olor1n

jimmers said:


> conheo said:
> 
> 
> > Can't wait for Vali comes down to Australia.
> ...


----------



## conheo

jimmers said:


> So you can pay twice the price?
> http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/schiit-audio-vali-tube-hybrid-headphone-amplifier
> 
> (but you do get free shipping)


 
 I will ask if they have any discount... as I know they used to have. If not, I will order from schiit later...As least I have a free demo. 
  
 anyway, asking for 259 is really ridiculous...=))


----------



## abhinit90

Can anyone tell me the rough size estimate of the Vali box in inches? I'll have a friend flying over so I'll have to give him a rough estimate and ask him if he can bring it or not.
  
 Also any other opinions on the Vali + T50RP from others? (Though I've already decided to get a Vali in any case)


----------



## jexby

abhinit90 said:


> Can anyone tell me the rough size estimate of the Vali box in inches? I'll have a friend flying over so I'll have to give him a rough estimate and ask him if he can bring it or not.
> 
> Also any other opinions on the Vali + T50RP from others? (Though I've already decided to get a Vali in any case)


 
  
 why is reading the schist web site so difficult for people to comprehend???
  
Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”
Weight: 1 lb


----------



## abhinit90

jexby said:


> why is reading the schist web site so difficult for people to comprehend???
> 
> Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”
> Weight: 1 lb


 
 Ironic ain't it?
  
 If you would kindly read my post again, I wanted to know the rough dimensions of the Vali box and not the Vali.
  
 And a product size cannot act as a basis of the approximation of the box size, in my humble opinion. That is why I asked the question.


----------



## Darknet

abhinit90 said:


> Ironic ain't it?
> 
> If you would kindly read my post again, I wanted to know the rough dimensions of the Vali box and not the Vali.
> 
> And a product size cannot act as a basis of the approximation of the box size, in my humble opinion. That is why I asked the question.


 
  
 Assuming its the same box as the magni (given that the chassis are very similar), I it should be 8.25" x 5.25"x 5.25". Got this off an unboxing video of the magni since it says the box dimensions at the bottom haha.


----------



## TheGame

abhinit90 said:


> Can anyone tell me the rough size estimate of the Vali box in inches? I'll have a friend flying over so I'll have to give him a rough estimate and ask him if he can bring it or not.
> 
> Also any other opinions on the Vali + T50RP from others? (Though I've already decided to get a Vali in any case)


 
  
 Not sure if anyone who ordered one received it yet, some may get theirs tomorrow since today is a holiday in the U.S. I am sure someone would be able to help you then with the size of the shipping box. Another option is to use the dimensions posted on Schitt's website for the size of the unit, and find a box that would be slightly bigger than that for a rough estimate (don't forget to add a little extra room for packing peanuts or some protective material). But I am guessing the box your friend will need to use will be quite small. Like I said though if you need exact measurements of the box that Schiit ships the unit in, you can wait a few days for some of the members here who bought it to help you answer that, or maybe e-mail Schiit and ask them what size box they use for shipping the Vali. Schitt customer service is awesome and they reply to e-mails rather quickly.


----------



## abhinit90

thegame said:


> Not sure if anyone who ordered one received it yet, some may get theirs tomorrow since today is a holiday in the U.S. I am sure someone would be able to help you then with the size of the shipping box. Another option is to use the dimensions posted on Schitt's website for the size of the unit, and find a box that would be slightly bigger than that for a rough estimate (don't forget to add a little extra room for packing peanuts or some protective material). But I am guessing the box your friend will need to use will be quite small. Like I said though if you need exact measurements of the box that Schiit ships the unit in, you can wait a few days for some of the members here who bought it to help you answer that, or maybe e-mail Schiit and ask them what size box they use for shipping the Vali. Schitt customer service is awesome and they reply to e-mails rather quickly.


 
 Their customer service is very quick indeed. I'll contact them. Actually I was reading through the past pages where members were posting their impressions on the retail unit. So I thought I'll ask. Thanks for the informative reply, much appreciated.
  


darknet said:


> Assuming its the same box as the magni (given that the chassis are very similar), I it should be 8.25" x 5.25"x 5.25". Got this off an unboxing video of the magni since it says the box dimensions at the bottom haha.


 
 Thanks a lot Darknet


----------



## Darknet

thegame said:


> Not sure if anyone who ordered one received it yet, some may get theirs tomorrow since today is a holiday in the U.S. I am sure someone would be able to help you then with the size of the shipping box. Another option is to use the dimensions posted on Schitt's website for the size of the unit, and find a box that would be slightly bigger than that for a rough estimate (don't forget to add a little extra room for packing peanuts or some protective material). But I am guessing the box your friend will need to use will be quite small. Like I said though if you need exact measurements of the box that Schiit ships the unit in, you can wait a few days for some of the members here who bought it to help you answer that, or maybe e-mail Schiit and ask them what size box they use for shipping the Vali. Schitt customer service is awesome and they reply to e-mails rather quickly.


 
 I've owned the Magni before and what they do is they have an interesting cardboard insert that holds the amplifier in place so there aren't really any packing peanuts... its a bit hard to explain haha but if you've seen an unboxing you'll get it. 
  
 I also think its worth mentioning that the box they send it in is the actual box of the amplifier itself, so there's only one box- not the box holding the actual amplifier and a box protecting the inner box.


----------



## Advil

Thinking about this + the Modi to replace my e17 + old little dot amp for my Q701's. do you guys think that's a good match?


----------



## Zojokkeli

Looks like I'll get mine during next week. One stupid question though. I also ordered Modi, and today I started to wonder if it ships with an usb-cable, or do I have to buy a separate one? If so, is there a specific type of cable I should look for? Thanks in advance, and sorry for the dumb questions!


----------



## Barry S

zojokkeli said:


> Looks like I'll get mine during next week. One stupid question though. I also ordered Modi, and today I started to wonder if it ships with an usb-cable, or do I have to buy a separate one? If so, is there a specific type of cable I should look for? Thanks in advance, and sorry for the dumb questions!




You'll need to buy a USB cable and a set of RCA cables. Good quality basic cables are fine--Schiit sells them or you can go with something similar.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Hi guys, I was wondering when the Vali might be released ? ... I have a pair of Oppo headphones I wish to try it with ...


----------



## jrzamora6

It was released on Monday


----------



## Zojokkeli

barry s said:


> You'll need to buy a USB cable and a set of RCA cables. Good quality basic cables are fine--Schiit sells them or you can go with something similar.




Thanks! I'll go looking for some cables once I get my Schiit.


----------



## jbarrentine

abhinit90 said:


> Ironic ain't it?
> 
> If you would kindly read my post again, I wanted to know the rough dimensions of the Vali box and not the Vali.
> 
> And a product size cannot act as a basis of the approximation of the box size, in my humble opinion. That is why I asked the question.


 
  
 fedex says 8x6x5


----------



## abhinit90

Thank you jbarrentine, much appreciated.
  
 Schiit hasn't replied yet so hearing from you is much appreciated.


----------



## Skipshrike

The spec's list show that this has a 5x gain. I'm worried about this being unbearably loud since I have to run my computer's volume at about 10%. I would be using AKG K712 Pro's and Philips Fidelio X1's.
  
 In noticed that the Asgard 2 has 1.5x or 6x gain. So, if the 5x--or 6x from the Magni--is too much then I might have to go with the A2.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

They are in the UK already  probably will take ages to get to the Lake district!


----------



## kstuart

The actual dimensions of the shipping box are 8 3/4" x 5 3/4" x 5 1/2".
  
 A lot of things are very similar to Magni (other than the tube vs transistor aspect and the sound), shipping box, jacks, size, etc.
  
 It can be ordered now from the schiit.com web site, although it can take up to a week or more to get shipping at this point, due to holidays, and previous orders.
  
 By the way, the Vali gets quite warm (I reserve the word "hot" for components that could actually cause discomfort if you put your hand on it, and it is not quite that hot).
  
 I'm currently doing the burn-in that Jason suggested, my first impressions start at:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1080#post_10015599


----------



## ssrock64

No photos yet of shipped units? I'm waiting on the edge of my seat, even though it looks exactly like the Magni.


----------



## kstuart

ssrock64 said:


> No photos yet of shipped units? I'm waiting on the edge of my seat, even though it looks exactly like the Magni.


 

 Here's Schiit's picture:


----------



## ssrock64

I've seen the press pics; I'm just waiting for somebody's shipped unit to appear pictured in their setup. Thanks anyways!


----------



## lost&confused

Hello all.... Long time not posting 
  
 My Vali amp arrived this morning all the way to the UK..... it Didn't ship till Tuesday! great service guys
  
 Very happy with the sound  .... I'm only using a Creative ZxR soundcard and Sennheisers HD650s.....so much nicer better than the onboard sound card amp  unreal the difference...
  
 Well done Schiit great little amp


----------



## 2g2gan

lost&confused said:


> Hello all.... Long time not posting
> 
> My Vali amp arrived this morning all the way to the UK..... it Didn't ship till Tuesday! great service guys
> 
> ...


 
 First post confirming that Vali is a good match w/ HD650


----------



## swannie007

That's good news as I shall be using my HD650's with the Vali. Mine is in the mail to me in Oz. I recently got the Modi/Magni combo and am quite impressed so the Vali mated to my Rotel dac should sound lovely in my office. My m&m combo is my travel/work rig.
Cheers.


----------



## kstuart

2g2gan said:


> lost&confused said:
> 
> 
> > Hello all.... Long time not posting
> ...


 
 Being better than a soundcard amp is kind of a low bar... but it is good to hear that it works with HD650 without issues...


----------



## lost&confused

kstuart said:


> Being better than a soundcard amp is kind of a low bar... but it is good to hear that it works with HD650 without issues...


 
 yeah   Its so much fun for the money I've been listening to it all day lo
 its fun very musical engaging,  Its not as powerful as my audiolab amp for bass loudness that thing can make my sennheisers bang! ....but it sounds better!
 I use the ZrX to EQ the sound I love bass!!!  boost the bass MAN!
 I might buy the hifiman he400 tomorrow I see them at 299
 I'm loving this amp


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

$299 for the he400 and you're a bass fan. You're in for a great deal!



lost&confused said:


> I might buy the hifiman he400 tomorrow I see them at 299
> I'm loving this amp


----------



## TheGame

2g2gan said:


> First post confirming that Vali is a good match w/ HD650


 
 Awesome I was waiting to hear that! Looking forward to hearing them on my HD650's!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





lost&confused said:


> Hello all.... Long time not posting
> 
> My Vali amp arrived this morning all the way to the UK..... it Didn't ship till Tuesday! great service guys
> 
> ...


 

 That's awesome news! I'll be using the Vali with a Creative Titanium HD and Sennheiser HD650's so pretty much same situation. I am glad to hear it sounds well with your card, it should sound good with the Titanium HD as well!


----------



## Pepe Silvia

hey guys do you think This new baby is better than Little dot i+ with WE408a tubes for my grados 225i?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

that might be £299 not $299


----------



## abhinit90

^^Also how is it as compared with the O2?


----------



## palchiu

Arrived


----------



## JeremyR

kstuart said:


> I am little less familiar with the MA-900s than the others, so impressions of the amp's sound will come from other phones, BUT I can say that the Vali works very well with the MA-900s - no pairing issues.  Since the MA-900s are so sensitive, I could not get beyond 12 o'clock on the knob.  Plenty of bass quantity on the MA-900s with the Vali.  Vocals are particularly nice.  So far, no issues at all other than the microphonics thing (which I think is discussed much earlier in the thread).


 
  
 Interesting that the rule for optimum sound seems to be the amp should be 8x lower in output impedance then the headphones. The MA-900's are 12 ohms, and the Vali's output impedance is 6.5 ohms, however you find no pairing issues.
  
 I guess that goes to show that rules are made to be broken


----------



## TheGame

palchiu said:


> Arrived


 

 Thank you for showing a pic of it other than the ones on Schiit's website, looks great! Quick question, when the amp is on, I read at Schiit's website that the tubes do not actually glow, but Schiit uses LED's to simulate tube glow. Can you see the LED glow through the top of the chassis holes? And what color are the LED's? Are they Orange?


----------



## kstuart

thegame said:


> Thank you for showing a pic of it other than the ones on Schiit's website, looks great! Quick question, when the amp is on, I read at Schiit's website that the tubes do not actually glow, but Schiit uses LED's to simulate tube glow. Can you see the LED glow through the top of the chassis holes? And what color are the LED's? Are they Orange?


 
 Orange.   They actually use the LED as diodes in the circuit as well, they are not just for looks.
  
 There was a picture of the Vali on a table at a headphone meet, earlier in the thread, btw.


----------



## palchiu

thegame said:


> Thank you for showing a pic of it other than the ones on Schiit's website, looks great! Quick question, when the amp is on, I read at Schiit's website that the tubes do not actually glow, but Schiit uses LED's to simulate tube glow. Can you see the LED glow through the top of the chassis holes? And what color are the LED's? Are they Orange?


 

  
 It's orange. Light from LED, not tubes.


----------



## kstuart

jeremyr said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > I am little less familiar with the MA-900s than the others, so impressions of the amp's sound will come from other phones, BUT I can say that the Vali works very well with the MA-900s - no pairing issues.  Since the MA-900s are so sensitive, I could not get beyond 12 o'clock on the knob.  Plenty of bass quantity on the MA-900s with the Vali.  Vocals are particularly nice.  So far, no issues at all other than the microphonics thing (which I think is discussed much earlier in the thread).
> ...


 
 There are many instances of good headphone sound where the headphone impedance is lower than output impedance.  The usual source for that "rule" is generally a dubious one on many other points, IMHO, but that would be off-topic.
  
 Also note that the MA-900s have an "impedance matching network", so it is a moot point anyway.


----------



## TheGame

palchiu said:


> It's orange. Light from LED, not tubes.


 
 Thank you for showing the pic with it lit up, looks great!
   
 Quote:


kstuart said:


> Orange.   They actually use the LED as diodes in the circuit as well, they are not just for looks.
> 
> There was a picture of the Vali on a table at a headphone meet, earlier in the thread, btw.


 

 Thank you for the info, and I am not sure how, but I must have missed the pic you're speaking of so I apologize for that.


----------



## AxelCloris

palchiu said:


> It's orange. Light from LED, not tubes.


 
  
 Oh man, that's a thing of beauty. Really looking forward to when mine is in my hands.


----------



## 2g2gan

Hopefully this can drive HE-400 too.


----------



## Transformatron

Does anybody know how long it took to get the Magni/Modi on Amazon? I have credit on Amazon and would like to buy the Vali with it.


----------



## elwappo99

jeremyr said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > I am little less familiar with the MA-900s than the others, so impressions of the amp's sound will come from other phones, BUT I can say that the Vali works very well with the MA-900s - no pairing issues.  Since the MA-900s are so sensitive, I could not get beyond 12 o'clock on the knob.  Plenty of bass quantity on the MA-900s with the Vali.  Vocals are particularly nice.  So far, no issues at all other than the microphonics thing (which I think is discussed much earlier in the thread).
> ...





The MA900 have a resistor that was put in series before the the drivers which changes the resistance of the driver to match the output impedance of the amplifier


----------



## TheGame

transformatron said:


> Does anybody know how long it took to get the Magni/Modi on Amazon? I have credit on Amazon and would like to buy the Vali with it.


 

 I kept checking on Amazon as well, but so far it isn't available there. I am guessing there are a couple reasons for this. 1) Since it is a new product, Schiit may want to make sure they have plenty in stock to ship from Schiit.com themselves 2) I noticed a lot of the items on Amazon from Schiit are shipped and sold from Schiit with a few exceptions.
  
 I'm sure it will be on Amazon eventually but it could be a while.


----------



## stratocaster

Bedside rig ...


----------



## jaywillin

put in my order last night, now the waiting..............


----------



## eccom

stratocaster said:


> Bedside rig ...




What are those cans, they look gorgeous!


----------



## abhinit90

^^Modded HiFiMan?


----------



## wes008

jeremyr said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > I am little less familiar with the MA-900s than the others, so impressions of the amp's sound will come from other phones, BUT I can say that the Vali works very well with the MA-900s - no pairing issues.  Since the MA-900s are so sensitive, I could not get beyond 12 o'clock on the knob.  Plenty of bass quantity on the MA-900s with the Vali.  Vocals are particularly nice.  So far, no issues at all other than the microphonics thing (which I think is discussed much earlier in the thread).
> ...


 
 The 8x rule is for maximum power, but evidently, the MA-900 gets just the right amount of power from that output power and impedance.  You can, technically, use headphones on an amp with an output impedance higher than that of the headphones, but you'll run into clipping and be loosing a lot of power.
  
  
 Quote:


stratocaster said:


> Bedside rig ...


 
 Beautiful.


----------



## K.T.

bourneperfect said:


> Speaking of burnin-generally it's a bad idea to leave tube amps on nonstop for a number of reasons. I'm wondering with this small pencil-tube Vali if it's ok to leave on longer-say 24 hours here and there?  Tube life concerns aside.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Is this due to heat? It is true that heat is an enemy of longevity.
  
 Don't these microtubes run pretty cool, though?


----------



## DarknightDK

Good news and bad news.
  
 Good news - I received my Vali today, right on target for an extended listening experience with the Vali over the long weekend.
  
 Bad news - Schiit heads sent me the wrong AC power adaptor. Rated at 115V when it should have been 220V. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Looks like I'll have to wait another week to be able to listen to the Vali.


----------



## snapple10

^^ too bad on the wait
Did you order directly from them? Did you get to pick the correct volt ? Option on volt on the order site , might just be default to 115
The anticipation will make it sound sweeter 

Sharing stuff , like this, can help others 
Thanks


----------



## stratocaster

abhinit90 said:


> ^^Modded HiFiMan?


 
 T50RP drivers in Karelian birch, Alpha pads.


----------



## abhinit90

stratocaster said:


> T50RP drivers in Karelian birch, Alpha pads.


 

 Woah! Nice, looks sweet.
  
 I could swear the frame is of a HiFiMan :|
  
 Impressions?


----------



## stratocaster

I used an HE-300 headband. 
 Too early for reliable impressions on the Vali. Just haven't had enough time to listen to it.


----------



## Makiah S

stratocaster said:


> I used an HE-300 headband.
> Too early for reliable impressions on the Vali. Just haven't had enough time to listen to it.


 
 LIES AN SCANDAL


----------



## ninjames

stratocaster said:


> I used an HE-300 headband.
> Too early for reliable impressions on the Vali. Just haven't had enough time to listen to it.


 
 The way this works is you pull it out of the box, plug it in, and immediately post 1,000-plus words of impressions after getting through two songs. Get with the program.


----------



## Makiah S

ninjames said:


> The way this works is you pull it out of the box, plug it in, and immediately post 1,000-plus words of impressions after getting through two songs. Get with the program.


 
 seriously man! Not to hard now is it :3


----------



## mrandery

darknightdk said:


> Good news and bad news.
> 
> Good news - I received my Vali today, right on target for an extended listening experience with the Vali over the long weekend.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Exactly the same situation for me in London
  
 I got mine yesterday. Wrong adapter.  I double checked, I had ordered the correct one.
  
 It's too bad as I was really looking forward to using it.
  
 With the Thanksgiving holidays in the US, I'll probably be waiting until mid-late next week.
  
 I also ordered the upgrades for the Bifrost, which will keep me busy until the Vali adapter arrives.


----------



## Argybargy

I ordered a Magni 220v and got the wrong 115v adapter as well.


----------



## snapple10

to wrong voltage and the wait for replacements
 hope they will cover shipping both ways!!


----------



## Argybargy

They covered shipping and did't ask to send the wrong one back.


----------



## mrandery

snapple10 said:


> to wrong voltage and the wait for replacements
> hope they will cover shipping both ways!!


 

 The cost of shipping back from Europe would probably be greater than the cost of the wall wart


----------



## stratocaster

Fantastic little piece of Schiit. Purrin was right ...


----------



## Fearless1

@kstuart, how is the Vali vs. the HA540(assuming you have rolled the tube, upgraded the power source).  Thanks in advance.


----------



## imackler

Has anyone heard both the HD600 and HD650 w/ the Vali? Which has better synergy?


----------



## Binge

I was able to briefly demo my 650 with the vali, and I have to say they shine.  I was considering selling the 650s to a colleague, but after this I'm not so sure.  More demoing required.
  
 Interesting design btw.  Class A tube pre with an undervolted plate for very low THD and long lifespan, class A/B solid state power stage.  Filtering is top notch.  This sounds amazing and the engineering is A+


----------



## leesure

thegame said:


> Thank you for showing the pic with it lit up, looks great!
> 
> 
> Thank you for the info, and I am not sure how, but I must have missed the pic you're speaking of so I apologize for that.






From like page 5ish


----------



## leesure

stratocaster said:


> Fantastic little piece of Schiit. Purrin was right ...




It's really the 'best amp for under $1600'??


----------



## kstuart

fearless1 said:


> @kstuart, how is the Vali vs. the HA540(assuming you have rolled the tube, upgraded the power source).  Thanks in advance.


 
 I'm hoping to do that comparison this weekend - I want to let the Vali reach the burn-in recommended by Schiit before I do a comparison, that's only fair.
  
 I did upgrade the power source slightly to the other wall adapter sold by Bellari, it makes a small difference.  The use of a single 12AX7 tube in the Bellari made for an easy and fun way to try tube rolling for the first time - the summary is that I found 1960s German (Telefunken,Siemens) and British (Mullard) to be the best for the music I prefer (where imaging and micro-detail are important).  The Bellari HA-540 thread has a longer tube comparison.


----------



## jbarrentine

I'm starting to have a fit now that other people are getting theirs. 

 Can anyone tell me how it is for MOVIES and TV shows? Is there audible hiss during quiet scenes? I watch a lot of media with my PC as well.


----------



## eccom

Got mine today, and it sounds fine with my HD650. Sadly the noise floor is to loud to use with anything else I own. In the end the right channel is crazy microphonic. Even just touching the volume control makes it ring quite loudly. Having it on the table top of my slightly shaky table and typing on the laptop makes is resonate as well...
 The left channel is pretty quiet unless a really tap the top of the amp, it seems the left channel resonates at about 4 times the frequency of the right channel.


----------



## Fearless1

kstuart said:


> I'm hoping to do that comparison this weekend - I want to let the Vali reach the burn-in recommended by Schiit before I do a comparison, that's only fair.
> 
> I did upgrade the power source slightly to the other wall adapter sold by Bellari, it makes a small difference.  The use of a single 12AX7 tube in the Bellari made for an easy and fun way to try tube rolling for the first time - the summary is that I found 1960s German (Telefunken,Siemens) and British (Mullard) to be the best for the music I prefer (where imaging and micro-detail are important).  The Bellari HA-540 thread has a longer tube comparison.


 
 Yeah,  I keep it around for a bedside rig, I also use a Telefunkin/RTC Mullard gold pin pending on the music. I was just looking for a smaller amp to throw in the drawer rather then leave it out.


----------



## FLguy

Quote:


lff said:


> ...The initial review is that it's "the best amp under $1650.00!!!" from another old member I really trust.  ...


 
  
 Wow, that's a pretty strong endorsement. Looking forward to hearing from folks who get to spend a bit of quality time with one, and getting some impressions and/or comparisons...
  
 Come on, don't keep us in suspense!


----------



## Makiah S

flguy said:


> Wow, that's a pretty strong endorsement. Looking forward to hearing from folks who get to spend a bit of quality time with one, and getting some impressions and/or comparisons...
> 
> Come on, don't keep us in suspense!


 
 Welp some one confirmed it was loud >.> with a lot of mirco phonics >.> hoping some one will try with an Audio TEchnica can and see how it fares!


----------



## Binge

eccom said:


> Got mine today, and it sounds fine with my HD650. Sadly the noise floor is to loud to use with anything else I own. In the end the right channel is crazy microphonic. Even just touching the volume control makes it ring quite loudly. Having it on the table top of my slightly shaky table and typing on the laptop makes is resonate as well...
> The left channel is pretty quiet unless a really tap the top of the amp, it seems the left channel resonates at about 4 times the frequency of the right channel.


 
  
 Maybe a defect? Gosh I hope it is and you can get that worked out. This is a far cry from the experience I've had with the vali + a variety of devices.


----------



## Makiah S

binge said:


> Maybe a defect? Gosh I hope it is and you can get that worked out. This is a far cry from the experience I've had in a variety of devices.


 
 Yea... that does sound a little to funny... I hope it is a defect! I don't doubt it's noisy but MAJOR NOISE in one side >.> better get yo schiit checked!


----------



## eccom

I've seen another report that typing on the same desk as the amp makes it ring, that too on a slightly unstable table. Unfortunately I think this something to expect. Schiit tells u to wait 60 seconds, some of us are bound to get noisy units that takes longer. 

Using my re-400 the ringing barely ever stops, but it's just too noisy for me anyways. I'm used to the O2 noise floor though.


----------



## kstuart

eccom said:


> Got mine today, and it sounds fine with my HD650. Sadly the noise floor is to loud to use with anything else I own. In the end the right channel is crazy microphonic. Even just touching the volume control makes it ring quite loudly. Having it on the table top of my slightly shaky table and typing on the laptop makes is resonate as well...
> The left channel is pretty quiet unless a really tap the top of the amp, it seems the left channel resonates at about 4 times the frequency of the right channel.


 

 This is similar to my experience - I didn't mention it because it was reported by the beta tester impressions in the thread, and Schiit acknowledges it in their posts and in the literature.
  
 This is why MattTCG mentioned he was building something to hold the amp.  You definitely cannot touch it while listening, although I can get away with turning the volume knob on mine.
  
 I'll see whether burn-in makes any difference.


----------



## tdockweiler

I got it in today one day earlier.
 Tried it first with my favorite Koss Pro DJ100 with M50 pads since it's my favorite headphone. It's 38ohm! This headphone doesn't care about a higher output impedance at all.
 Sounds mostly normal with maybe some slight low mid emphasis (or maybe not). The bass is very, very good. Don't know why, but apparently the DJ100 likes this amp. Sounds like it has better bass than the Magni.
 When paused there is some noise, but barely audible.
 Doesn't seem to be making the DJ100 any warmer. About the same it always is with a good amp.
 So far it sounds pretty clear too.
 Right now it doesn't sound entirely smooth, but very close. I think maybe it just needs a week of use. On my main amp (and the O2) this headphone sounded really smooth and fairly forgiving to harsh/bright tracks etc.
  
 The microphonics thing is annoying as ***** but i'll live. It takes forever to go away. About 5x worse than I thought.
  
 Did someone say this was a "fun little amp"? Seems like it so far without too much coloration.
 I imagine if you want to add warmth to your brighter headphones this probably won't do it. I'll try it with everything else first just to be safe.
  
 Oh yeah and of course with this amp my DJ100 (with M50 pads) only sounds almost like an open headphone at times. It's not hard to do that though and it's mostly from the DAC.
  
 OK now on to the modded Q701, HD-598 and HD-650.
  
 BTW if this amp was too warm or dark it'd make my DJ100 sound like poop and really congested. Luckily it's sounding pretty good. Definitely doesn't fix my harsh/super bright recordings thankfully. Doesn't sound bright to me (yet).


----------



## jbarrentine

eccom said:


> I've seen another report that typing on the same desk as the amp makes it ring, that to on a slightly unstable table. Unfortunately I think this something to expect. Schiit tells u to wait 60 seconds, some of us are bound to get noisy units that takes longer.
> 
> Using my re-400 the ringing barely ever stops, but it's just too noisy for me anyways. I'm used to the O2 noise floor though.


 
  
 Annnd I'll be sending it back if that's the case. I have to type on this desk :\


----------



## kstuart

fearless1 said:


> . I was just looking for a smaller amp to throw in the drawer rather then leave it out.


 
 I am not sure it is that much smaller - 3 1/2" x 5" x 1"  - it is a different shape than the HA-540 which is 5 1/2 " x 6" x about 3" (the latter only due to the tube being upright, of course.  I guess it depends on the size of the drawer.


----------



## kstuart

jbarrentine said:


> eccom said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen another report that typing on the same desk as the amp makes it ring, that to on a slightly unstable table. Unfortunately I think this something to expect. Schiit tells u to wait 60 seconds, some of us are bound to get noisy units that takes longer.
> ...


 

 They did not put that information on the product page, so I think you have a good case for the 15% restocking fee to be waived.  They put in the FAQ page:
  


> *So what's the catch?*
> 
> Compared to Magni? Several. One, Vali's ultimate power output is lower, so it's less suitable to orthodynamics and other hard-to-drive headphones. Two, many tubes, including the ones in Vali, are microphonic. When you plug in headphones on Vali, you'll hear a little "tiiinnnnggg...." noise that takes quite a while to go away. If you rap the chassis, it will do the same thing. If you work on, say, a paint shaker table, Vali's not going to be the best amp for you. Three, tubes also have a lifespan, though Vali's tubes are expected to last 10,000-20,000 hours--which is 7-14 years of listening 4 hours a day, every day.


----------



## FLguy

kstuart said:


> This is similar to my experience - I didn't mention it because it was reported by the beta tester impressions in the thread, and Schiit acknowledges it in their posts and in the literature.
> 
> This is why MattTCG mentioned he was building something to hold the amp.  You definitely cannot touch it while listening, although I can get away with turning the volume knob on mine.
> 
> I'll see whether burn-in makes any difference.


 
  
 Ah well darn... I guess at that price, there had to be some tradeoff(s)...
  
 I wonder if there might be a simple fix - or way to reduce the issue at least.... Maybe rubber (or thick felt) feet? and or a wooden tray/platter?  (I've seen some folks resort to this in the past)


----------



## 2g2gan

flguy said:


> Ah well darn... I guess at that price, there had to be some tradeoff(s)...
> 
> I wonder if there might be a simple fix - or way to reduce the issue at least.... Maybe rubber (or thick felt) feet? and or a wooden tray/platter?  (I've seen some folks resort to this in the past)


 
 Sounds like this Schiit is more sensitive than a baby's butt.  Could be a deal-breaker!


----------



## TonyRS

leesure said:


> thegame said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for showing the pic with it lit up, looks great!
> ...


 Good gravy, that Schiit is sexy


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I also got the wrong UK PSU also but I have the amp up and running, initial thoughts are very positive and no signs of microphonic tubes atm, though the Modi didn't like my USB3 socket! Very well made and VERY fast service for delivery. USA to UK in 3 days. Great sound.


----------



## thegunner100

What about putting some thick rubber bands around the Vali? That could help absorb some vibrations. I hope it wont be a problem with the hd600/650/800 though.


----------



## davisman

Mine sounds good with my k702 annies, and my 598s. The bass is nice. About to try with some grado sr80s and my denon d600s. Both are pretty low impedance. 
  
 You can definitely hear some ringing when you change phones, but it doesn't bother me. Also, song muted volume at 100 and no noise. 
  
 ETA: I only get a ringing through the right channel when I swap phones. Grados seems to work pretty good out of this amp. Actually my sr80s sound really good out of this amp. (pair with biifrost). 
  
 ETA2: Denon d600s are probably a no go, and are too sensitive for the Vali. The ringing when I plugged them in was pretty intense, and didn't really go away. Very little volume play until it is too loud(about 7 o'clock was approaching too loud for me). This is to be expected, as they are rated at 25 ohms.


----------



## TheGame

thank you! for posting that for me I appreciate that. Man after seeing all of these pics, I can't wait to get mine, and the good things I have heard about it with HD650's makes it even tougher to wait!


----------



## TheGame

leesure said:


> From like page 5ish


 
  


leesure said:


> From like page 5ish


 
 thank you! for posting that for me I appreciate that. Man after seeing all of these pics, I can't wait to get mine, and the good things I have heard about it with HD650's makes it even tougher to wait!
  
*Sorry for the double post, as you can see I messed up on the quote thing.*


----------



## achristilaw

To stay away from the microphonics? Plug your phone in before start up, don't swap during on time. This amp has wonderful tonal colors and is clean, clear and focused. Has more frequency reach than you should expect at this price point. A wonderful small offing and a fun piece of kit......


----------



## imackler

achristilaw said:


> Plug your phone in before start up, don't swap during on time.


 
 So no danger leaving your headphones plugged in all the time?


----------



## Binge

There is a relay in place to prevent loud pops during startup.  It's safe to leave headphones in.


----------



## imackler

binge said:


> There is a relay in place to prevent loud pops during startup.  It's safe to leave headphones in.


 
 Awesome! I didn't know if things were different with a tube than a solid state.


----------



## tdockweiler

Now if only Schiit could re-create the EXACT Vali sound signature/tone without the tubes..I'd buy it.
 I was actually expecting this to have a little more coloration, but i'm glad that's not the case.
  
 A lot of my music sounds exactly how it does on the Micro Amp + Astrodyne (and that was a $350 amp and $60 for the PS).
  
 I've also tried it with the modded Q701. So far so good..it's not thin at all unless it's the recording.
  
 I also found that with my other DAC it sounds a little better than with the Modi. I also plugged it into a Tripp-lite Isobar 4 and it seems to sound even better but could be placebo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So far i'm surprised that it sounds so neutral to my ears.
  
 The clearness of it's sound reminds me of the O2 sort of. I think it's a combination of the amp and my Micro DAC. It's very slightly less clear on the Modi but barely noticeable on 90% of music.


----------



## achristilaw

imackler said:


> So no danger leaving your headphones plugged in all the time?


 

 Oops.... didn't see the reply, it already got mentioned that the soft start relay takes the agony of the pop out of the equation.


----------



## lostinthesauce

Also interested in how the Vali pairs with Audio Technica's AD (specifically 900X) line.


----------



## imackler

tdockweiler said:


> A lot of my music sounds exactly how it does on the Micro Amp + Astrodyne (and that was a $350 amp and $60 for the PS).
> 
> ...
> 
> So far i'm surprised that it sounds so neutral to my ears.


 
  
 And how does it pair with the HD650? I'm loving the sound of your impressions. The Micro Amp and Astrodyne was one of my favorite amps.


----------



## mhamel

Maybe something like this to help with isolation?   http://www.amazon.com/Isolate-It-Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Durometer/dp/B0084EKSNI


----------



## tdockweiler

imackler said:


> And how does it pair with the HD650? I'm loving the sound of your impressions. The Micro Amp and Astrodyne was one of my favorite amps.


 
  
 I'll probably get to that tonight. When I put on my DJ100 with it I didn't want to switch to the modded Q701. Kind of addicting.
  
 The Micro Amp + Astro is pretty crystal clear for me (even more so with the Micro DAC) but perhaps the O2 is very very slightly clearer.
  
 I can even hear the extra clearness of the sound on my modded Q701 with the Vali. It also seems like there is more air heard in recordings, but probably not or my head playing tricks on me.
 I actually noticed that on some Tony Bennett recordings with my DJ100 (and that's closed!).
  
 BTW if you have a Vali I'd suggest plugging it into a high quality surge protector. The Vali doesn't seem to mind MOV based surge protectors.
  
 Clearer sound usually means less full mids for me and a much thinner sound, but not so here.
  
 EDIT: HD-650 sounds good and I knew this within a minute. With my AC powered DAC as input I only need about 5% volume on the Vali with the HD-650. Scary.
  
 So I would say the Vali has the tone I like. Sort of crystal clear, but not thin. Nice and full sounding and not dark or warm. So for me perhaps my favorite amp tonality is close to an O2 but with 2-3% smoother treble and very very slightly fuller sounding. I don't mean colored. The O2 was the closest i've come to my favorite sounding amp but the Vali is even closer (so far).
  
 EDIT2: HD-650 sounds great on the Vali. Well, it's not a major improvement and sounds basically the same as my other amp. Perhaps slightly fuller and with slightly better instrument separation/imaging. Feels like I want to look around and pick out all the different instruments and more so than before. It's easy to locate tracks that sound unclear or ones that are muffled and not due the amp/dac. For example "Liquid Dance" from the Slumdog Millionaire soundtrack sounds sort of like it has a haze over the sound during the bassy parts on the HD-650. Think it's the track. I don't think the Vali is coloring the sound but more that the HD-650 just loves the Vali or something.
  
 The Vali might be a little more fatiguing than my other amp with the HD-650 but maybe not. I haven't heard a laid-back HD-650 in years.
  
 It's really amazing how many muffled tracks I can hear on the Vali+Micro DAC. 99% sure it's the track and not amp/dac or headphone. The one i'm on now is "Tonight, Tonight" from Smashing Pumpkins.
  
 Careful not to blame the Vali for recording faults 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OK, it's probably a combo of your DAC and the Vali..not sure. Oh and this is on the HD-650. Brand new pads too.


----------



## Pepe Silvia

anyone tested SR 225i Grados with the Vali?


----------



## Zojokkeli

I'd love to hear some more impressions with Vali and HD 598's, as they are my "main" HP's at the moment.


----------



## tdockweiler

Make sure when you get the Vali to put on the rubber feet right away. It really helps a ton and I was too lazy to do this immediately.
 Maybe you could experiment with different feet or maybe double them up or something?


----------



## jbarrentine

tdockweiler said:


> Maybe you could experiment with different feet or maybe double them up or something?


 
  
 If we're lucky we'll get 200 page threads about which feet to buy to get the best sound quality.
  
 In all seriousness, if the microphonics are as bad as people indicate, I'll go get some big feet or matting or something to put the unit on.


----------



## BournePerfect

Got my Vali today. I always love opening Schiit packages-excellent packaging, and the build quality and aesthetics are a thing of beauty at this price point. Unfortunately my Vali has been sitting in the cold all day so I'm gonna let it warm to room temperature while I'm at the gym before I plug it in later. Will be posting meaningful (i.e. more than a half hour listening) impressions sometime this weekend or early next week after burn in. Will be running an HD800 from my DP1.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## thegunner100

bourneperfect said:


> Got my Vali today. I always love opening Schiit packages-excellent packaging, and the build quality and aesthetics are a thing of beauty at this price point. Unfortunately my Vali has been sitting in the vold all day so I'm gonna let it warm to room temperature while I'm at the gym before I plug it in later. Will be posting meaningful (i.e. more than a half hour listening) impressions sometime this weekend or early next week after burn in. Will be running an HD800 from my DP1.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 Looking forward to reading your impressions.


----------



## tdockweiler

Been listening now with random headphones since I got it. I would say it's good with everything but on my DJ100 it sounds less smooth than with the others.
  
 While I was listening to it I could have sworn I had my modded Q701 attached to my old amp. Sounded almost the same. Very good obviously.
  
 I kept switching between amps and every song sounded identical. All the weird peaks and annoying parts in my songs on my Micro Amp are also there on the Vali. The whole tonality sounds exactly the same to me. Same full mids. I was using the same DAC and same exact brand of wire (DHC DIY). Vali might be a tad clearer, but basically not audible 90% of the time. Maybe if I had a $1000 DAC and headphone.
  
 So I guess the Vali just isn't very colored at all or something. I'm pretty happy that I have something similar in tone to my favorite amp for bedroom use. It wasn't the Magni, E9 or O2, but O2 was close but not quite.
  
 Comparing O2 to Vali now doesn't sound so bizarre really. I think it's closer than the Magni to O2. My Magni was somewhat bright though, but nothing too bad.
  
 There's really a tube in there right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Man if people start saying this has a warm tube-like sound i'm going to feel pretty stupid. No way! I just can't imagine that. Yep and I know it's a hybrid tube-amp.
  
 So how the heck do you get this type of sound without tubes? That's what I want to know! Maybe Schiit can pull that off if they haven't already done it.
  
 For anyone that cares, to my ears it's clearly better sounding than the Asgard1/2 and Magni. I just want the same sound without the microphonics. I don't care if it costs an extra $75. Actually it's not that bad. Only occurs when I switch headphones or bump the amp. That's like what..once every hour?


----------



## Barry S

WTH? What...The...Hell. 

My Vali arrived today and it was intended for my work setup, Modi/Magni/HD650. Since I didn't even plan on ordering the Vali, all that stuff is at work. With ZERO expectations, I put the Vali in my home setup swapping out my Mjolnir for a Gungnir/Vali/LCD-X chain. I hated the Magni with both the LCD-2s and LCD-Xs, which made both cans sound sloppy and congested. Although I loved the Lyr with just about everything--it sounded too thick with both the LCD-2/LCD-X, and smeared detail. So, I expected the Vali to be a poor pairing with the LCD-X.

I'm A/B-ing the LCD-X with the Vali and the Mjolnir--both being fed by the Gungnir. The Vali is *rocking* the LCD-X, that's the only way to put it. The Vali has a beautiful analog signature with punchy deep bass and rich mids, but maintains very crisp treble. The Vali doesn't have quite the detail, instrument separation, and air of the Mjolnir, but damn if it doesn't sound beautifully musical. The soundstage is also a bit more closed in, but honestly--it sounds very very good. I could listen to the LCD-Xs out of the Vali all day--the synergy is great. More thoughts to come, but the Vali is way better than it should be for the price and is actually a reasonable option for the LCD-X. Very much in shock on this!


----------



## 4nradio

mhamel said:


> Maybe something like this to help with isolation?   http://www.amazon.com/Isolate-It-Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Durometer/dp/B0084EKSNI


 
  
 I see that Amazon is out of stock on these items, but Ebay seller "isolate_it-rxsorbo" has numerous Sorbothane feet for sensitive equipment in various sizes. They also have Sorbothane sheets (incl. self-adhesive), discs, blocks, and other shapes of Sorbothane.
  
 One of these products could be a very good aid in ultimately reducing the Vali's microphonics.
  
 BTW, I received my Vali today but haven't had a chance to do more than power it up. I need to build a cable for a neat connection between my DX100's 1/8" Line-Out to the Vali's twin RCA connectors. I'm fond of the sound of Kerrigan-Lewis Litz wire (likely the stuff Q-Audio uses)  and I have a Audeze LCD-2 cable made from this. It could use it to make the cable for the Vali too. Alternatively I have some Teflon, silver-plated copper wire to try. I'm not a true-blue cable believer, but I don't like to use any old cheap interconnects just in case it would be the weak link in the audio chain so to speak.
  
 I guess I'll first listen to a SACD with the Vali, as my Denon player has RCA outputs that I have good cables for.


----------



## BleaK

barry s said:


> WTH? What...The...Hell.
> 
> My Vali arrived today and it was intended for my work setup, Modi/Magni/HD650. Since I didn't even plan on ordering the Vali, all that stuff is at work. With ZERO expectations, I put the Vali in my home setup swapping out my Mjolnir for a Gungnir/Vali/LCD-X chain. I hated the Magni with both the LCD-2s and LCD-Xs, which made both cans sound sloppy and congested. Although I loved the Lyr with just about everything--it sounded too thick with both the LCD-2/LCD-X, and smeared detail. So, I expected the Vali to be a poor pairing with the LCD-X.
> 
> I'm A/B-ing the LCD-X with the Vali and the Mjolnir--both being fed by the Gungnir. The Vali is *rocking* the LCD-X, that's the only way to put it. The Vali has a beautiful analog signature with punchy deep bass and rich mids, but maintains very crisp treble. The Vali doesn't have quite the detail, instrument separation, and air of the Mjolnir, but damn if it doesn't sound beautifully musical. The soundstage is also a bit more closed in, but honestly--it sounds very very good. I could listen to the LCD-Xs out of the Vali all day--the synergy is great. More thoughts to come, but the Vali is way better than it should be for the price and is actually a reasonable option for the LCD-X. Very much in shock on this!


 

 Nice impression with some serious gear!


----------



## davisman

With the rubber feet, and on a solid surface the micro-phonics really are not that bad. Just when you first turn it on, or plug in a headphone, and its gone within a minute. I have noticed that the lower the impedance the worse it is. 
  
 It sounds great with all of my headphones (hd598s, akg 702 annies, Grado sr80i), except my denon d600s. For the money you really cant go wrong.


----------



## sfwalcer

^ Anyone tried the Vali with their Beyer DT-250s yet??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Very much interested to hear how they pair.


----------



## juantendo8

I can confirm that the Vali is very, very nice with HD800s. I am using the Odac with these. Compared to the O2 amp these are a big step up in smoothness and expansiveness, while avoiding any loss of clarity (i.e. stereotypical tube muddiness) or obvious emphasis in any region. Some tracks that gave me problems with the 800s seem to be a lot more listenable. I might just be lucky, but the microphonics seem very hard to trigger on my unit. I am running my HD800s stock right now, but I hear this amp sounds great with the Anax mod. I give it a very confident two thumbs up, at least with the HD800.


----------



## NinjaHamster

2g2gan said:


> Sounds like this Schiit is more sensitive than a baby's butt.  Could be a deal-breaker!


 
 LOL - I was actually joking about all the posts which had said the Vali was being shipped ...


----------



## K.T.

Sounds very promising, this Vali. Can't wait until mine arrives.

Regarding vibration damping feet, etc: boy, that's a black hole in and of itself. Take it from a guy who was in the DIY audio scene for years.

Some of you will spend a lot of time figuring this out. Please remember to have fun! 

And do let us know what you find out.


----------



## NinjaHamster

palchiu said:


> It's orange. Light from LED, not tubes.


 
  
 Tube Rollers CAN be happy, it seems.  This amp already comes with a set of "Orange Globes" !!


----------



## 4nradio

juantendo8 said:


> I can confirm that the Vali is very, very nice with HD800s. I am using the Odac with these. Compared to the O2 amp these are a big step up in smoothness and expansiveness, while avoiding any loss of clarity (i.e. stereotypical tube muddiness) or obvious emphasis in any region. Some tracks that gave me problems with the 800s seem to be a lot more listenable. I might just be lucky, but the microphonics seem very hard to trigger on my unit. I am running my HD800s stock right now, but I hear this amp sounds great with the Anax mod. I give it a very confident two thumbs up, at least with the HD800.


 
  
 "Ditto" on the excellent sound with the HD800s! I found a decent cable to go between my DX100's 1/8" Line-Out and the Vali and have been taking a listen. BTW my HD800s have the Anax mod.
  
 I'm playing some tracks from Stevie Ray Vaughan's _Texas Flood_ (Mobile Fidelity's remastered). The bass slam of Tommy Shannon's guitar is clean without blurring of the notes, and every other range is smooth right up through the treble. It might be expectation bias, but the sound stage seems a bit wider through the Vali than directly from the DX100's headphones output.
  
 Microphonics are minimal and fully disappear within 5-10 seconds, even with the Vali sitting right on a hard shelf surface (on rubber feet attached yet). I tried a lower impedance set of cans (modded JVC HA-S500) and microphonics, while much more pronounced, were gone in about 20 seconds. All in all, it's not really a problem. 
  
 If the Vali sounds this good right out of the box, I can't wait for burn-in to commence.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I don't even own one but if putting rubber around the unit eliminates microphonics, several layers of plastidip (rubber spray paint you buy at a hardware store) should be a good solution... ?


----------



## Binge

Demoing right now with Mad Dog 3.2.  PC>Modi>Vali... No special cables or mods.  I like a lot of Jazz, R&B, Rock, and Electronic.  Genres that may be a close relative are all fair game.  I am by no means a pro, I have done some recording in a studio environment, and I do play a few instruments.  When I do recordings and most listenings I use a reliable interface the Roland Tri-Capture.  The tri-cap is my go to interface for ultra low recording and listening latency with great fidelity.  It is well within the performance of similar solid state headphone amp solutions at three times its price.
  
  
 Playlist
  

Queens of the Stone Age - The Vampyre of Time and Memory
Imogen Heap - Aha!
Lotus - Nematode
Hot Chp - The Warning
Indego Children - Puscifier
The Budos Band - Unbroken, Unshaven
  
*The Vampyre of Time and Memory,* 2013 was a good year for QOTS.  When I first listened to this on my default setup during the first 15 days of owning my Mad Dogs I knew I had to keep the headphones.  There are a few synth effects, the standard dirty guitar, a piano, a bass line which carries the tune and multi-tracked lyrics which ride on top of the bass line with grace and melancholy.  With the Vali I remember the synth having less dimension.  There just seem to be more harmonics with that sound and I can't quite decide if I like it better with the tri-capture or the Vali.  It's more like the bitey hum has grown several sets of extra teeth and I could wince at the effect with a good volume.  This sound is pretty prominent in the song, so most of the other instruments either cut through it or play along with the sound.   What I love is that even with the tubes all of those key instruments in the song remain characteristic and cut the mix in their own right.  The audio remains spectacular and haunting.  My enjoyment is not halted with any of additional dynamic I experience in the synth effect.
  
*Aha!* 2nd to Nematode this tune has a ton of presence with airy sounds.  Vocals are punchy at times and then suddenly whispered evoking an increased sense of suspense. At 1:40 and going to 1:55 there is a vocal backtrack I have a hard time placing each time I listen to this track, but when I do I grin because the play is enchanting.  The vali misses none of the articulation at this part and more.  Clear separation of the samples used in her song remains true to the recording.  There is a bit of extra punch in the drivers when the bell sounds decay, and some of the synthesized percussive effects have a bit more impact than I remember.  There is also more presence to the cello without destroying any other part of the mix.
  
*Nematode, *Great piece, exceptionally smooth by nature, and captured live.  There is a huge scene painted with this tune.  The guitars sound as sublime as ever.  There was a noise which I picked out some new rhythmic hiss and crackle new tonight which was the effect of the compressor the guitarist was using throughout the song.  To hear it at all with the solid state amp I had to turn up things a bit louder to an uncomfortable level, but not with the Vali which seemed to keep it all and all of the rest of the instruments/effects admirably in the forefront of the stage. Almost 9 minutes into the song there are some bass frequencies which subtly roll into the song before things start to get more and more energetic.  They rolled in without any lack of subtlety as they should.  No over accentuated details so I am starting to think although the tri capture is admirable there is just a bit more low end definition that I could get out of a higher end SS amp.  I only assume this because the color is not disproportional... just the separation of the details between the two setups.
  
*The Warning**,* I've listened to this song a million times between the car, portable solutions, youtube, and every now and again.  It has a bunch of percussion and lyrics which ever so gently keep in time.  Nothing really complex here, nothing lost, clear and crisp representation of the recording.
  
*Indego Children**,* This song became growly without remorse and I believe that was intended.  My desk speakers get most of the power I'm now hearing from the Mad Dogs.  From the songs I've listened to earlier in the list I can say that there is much more low end definition between the Vali and my Tri-Capture.  With the presence of the low end separation I do not get a sense that there is extra coloring.  Nothing seems more recessed and remains just crystal clear and punchy.
  
*Unspoken, Unshaven, *Like Nematode this song is more relaxed and just sounds larger.  The horns are one reason I come back to The Budos Band aside from the grooooooovy tunes.  I feel the vali handles these sounds with care and the echo effect to the lead horn really creates notable depth.  In previous songs it looks like I mention without fault my feelings regarding clarity of the low end and the mix.  Bass is one of those things that not all genres inject via IV into their recordings.  In fact the lower midrange can often overpower or meld with a bass line.  The Budos Band's range is a bit darker with a clear balance resting in the crashes, shakers, and horns used.  A lot of times this muddies with darker or warmer gear.  I get none of that sense from the Vali..  If I can cite one more song *Nature's Wrath* also by The Budos Band I must stress that the power behind these songs is low end clarity and separation.  Bass presence is one thing and a warm/dark sound is another.  There is definitely the string quality to the bass guitars, and the tin of any slap is present and balanced.
  
 I've nothing but praise for the Vali as a $119 amp.  That being said... I don't think it should be run(demoed) without a DAC.  The tubes of the Vali will do wonderful things with a pure source and with anything less I fear might give the wrong impression of this neat device.  Earlier I had used it on my HD650 and immediately noticed the veil on that set of phones seemed lifted.  Thanks Schiit for making such a cool piece.


----------



## Bolardito

My Vali arrives tomorrow..can do a comparison with the Luxman P1-u, Super 7 and Mjolnir with the HD800 and my other cans


----------



## tdockweiler

Sounds good with the K400..not that anyone cares. This means it should also be fine for the K601/K501 I'd imagine.
 Doesn't really sound any different or better. Just like how it's always sounded.
  
 The K400 has always sounded a bit bass-light and thin for me..the Vali doesn't change anything here and I don't want that anyway.
  
 I couldn't pick my favorite match for the Vali. They're all equally good.
  
 There is definitely no lack of treble on this amp..
  
 BTW nothing I own has been past the 9:30 position on the volume dial. My HD-650 always is at the lowest volume level.
  
 Also..the ringing takes 20 seconds to go away for me. When I increase the volume you can hear it but it goes away in 2 seconds.


----------



## CJ_CoCa

Has anyone tried the Vali with the HE-400? I'm trying to decide whether to get the Magni or Vali for use with the 400s...thanks in advance!


----------



## jexby

this is officially a non-expert comparison.
  
 some early observations as the Vali arrived today, let it warm up and go through some music in my absence for about 5 hours.
 got to perform some quick A/B swaps with my setup.  tried to get output values very close, but no I didn't measure.
 I really never got the Vali or Lyr past 10 o'clock on the dial, don't need to blast loud at night- ha!
  
 iMac > Audirvana+ > Virtue Audio USB cable > Concero HD (no filters) > Vali | Lyr (with Ediswan tubes) > HE-500
  
 source material:  mix of 24/96 and 24/192 material and some 16/44.  rock and alternative, acoustic guitar and piano pieces.
 and wow, this little Vali gem is a real solid performer!
  
 I will state tho, Vali is no Lyr2 or Lyr killer IMHO.  (tube preference your call)
  
 the Vali is very musical, and nothing sounds "below average" at all.
 but to my ears:
  Vali soundstage is not quite as wide, nor tall
  Vali seemed to present music more "up close" or in your face (central)
  Vali seemed to emphasis some acoustic guitar parts as a bit more forward in the mix
  Vali a bit less able to focus/separate on base string "plucks" decay
  Vali had a tad hollower (less full) sound on a few isolated drum hits at times
  
 I've heard tale of Vali micro dynamics and clarity being better than the Lyr-
 and I can't really hear anything significantly different.  maybe on a few cymbal taps, guitar strums but really, barely noticeable to me.
 I have a sneaky suspicion this is one area where tube rolling (away from stock tubes) can deliver improved Lyr micro details.
  
  
 in reading the above, it may come across as a negative review of the Vali, but NOT at all!
 if I had the Vali first, I'd probably feel little/no need to get a Lyr and save the $.  alas, lucky me for having both?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 the Vali is destined for the office (with BiFrost Uber), where it will rock the HD600 for sure with zero complaints.
 it's a no brainer superb amp, and the fact it closely competes in my setup with a +$300 Lyr (plus tube upgrades!) is a significant accomplishment.
 amazing schiit to say the least!
  
 ps. a follow on comments about background:
  
 why do I love the dead silent background on the Vali!? ha!
 no music playing, knob cranked.  nothing. silence.
 no need for my JK Audio Pureformer in the RCA connection between Concero HD and Vali at all,
  
 whereas I do need/want the Pureformer in the RCA connection between Concero HD and Lyr to eliminate some usb crackle and reduce the low hum in the same "no music, crank the knob" scenario.
 real world listening impact?  zero I bet.


----------



## JoeKickass

Vali has arrived, incredible shipping speed! Noticed the micro-phonics immediately with my $20 monoprice headphones (which measure 40 ohms) and even worse with my $40 sony in ear set (which measure 16 ohms lol) but the ringing died out completely with both! The noise floor was higher on the sony's, and the volume was only usable up to 8 o'clock but they worked surprisingly well! I am using a hifidiy dac which made my cheapo headphones sound great, but the Vali really polishes everything so nicely, and even takes some harshness out of my low quality music too!
  
 I'm thinking about the hd 558's as my first real quality set, I know I'm so poor


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I find it surprising people are comparing the Vali to the Lyr since the power output is much higher on the latter... yet it sounds almost as good?

Vali:
32 ohms: 650mW RMS per channelMax
50 ohms: 550mW RMS per channelMax
300 ohms: 220mW RMS per channelMax
600 ohms: 115mW RMS per channelMax

LYR:
32 ohms: 6.0W RMS per channelMax
50 ohms: 4.0W RMS per channelMax
300 ohms: 660mW RMS per channelMax
600 ohms: 330mW RMS per channelMax


----------



## helljudgement

bolardito said:


> My Vali arrives tomorrow..can do a comparison with the Luxman P1-u, Super 7 and Mjolnir with the HD800 and my other cans


 

 Very interested to see how it compares to super 7 and p1-u. Subbed.


----------



## flowza

Has anyone tried it with the pro900? If so, do let me know.


----------



## davidsh

How is the general sound signature of this amp, can't really get a grasp of it?


----------



## Eric_C

sfwalcer said:


> ^ Anyone tried the Vali with their Beyer DT-250s yet???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a DT 880 (the 250-ohm version), and just got my Vali today. Is that a useful comparison? I'm not sure how the sound sig compares to the DT250.
  
 Basically: yeah, I'm happy with this Schiit. Can't wait for my Mad Dogs to come in.


----------



## gideon228

I've just put 200h of burn in through this little amp with my HD650s and put on Explorers by Muse. WOW! The details in the piano are so realistic and the ghostly harmonies are almost life like. This is some good Schiit!!


----------



## SMG52

barry s said:


> WTH? What...The...Hell.
> 
> My Vali arrived today and it was intended for my work setup, Modi/Magni/HD650. Since I didn't even plan on ordering the Vali, all that stuff is at work. With ZERO expectations, I put the Vali in my home setup swapping out my Mjolnir for a Gungnir/Vali/LCD-X chain. I hated the Magni with both the LCD-2s and LCD-Xs, which made both cans sound sloppy and congested. Although I loved the Lyr with just about everything--it sounded too thick with both the LCD-2/LCD-X, and smeared detail. So, I expected the Vali to be a poor pairing with the LCD-X.
> 
> I'm A/B-ing the LCD-X with the Vali and the Mjolnir--both being fed by the Gungnir. The Vali is *rocking* the LCD-X, that's the only way to put it. The Vali has a beautiful analog signature with punchy deep bass and rich mids, but maintains very crisp treble. The Vali doesn't have quite the detail, instrument separation, and air of the Mjolnir, but damn if it doesn't sound beautifully musical. The soundstage is also a bit more closed in, but honestly--it sounds very very good. I could listen to the LCD-Xs out of the Vali all day--the synergy is great. More thoughts to come, but the Vali is way better than it should be for the price and is actually a reasonable option for the LCD-X. Very much in shock on this!


 
 Thanks Barry!
  
 Just ordered a pair of LCD-Xs. Nice to know there is such an inexpensive alternative out there if my  amp choices for some reason don't synergise well with the Xs. Keep you experiences coming, as the Vali breaks in......and warms up. Read somewhere that it noticeably improves if left on for some time.


----------



## eccom

So some new thoughts on the Vali, sound and microphonics.
  
 Microphonics - they go away completely if left fully untouched for some time (4-5 minutes), once warmed up. The whine is non-stop for the first 10-15 minutes after turning on, and doesn't really depend on touching the unit or not. This is without any music playing. I test this with the HD650 and an IEM, using the H650 and playing music, I'd say 60 seconds is enough.
  
 Once the unit is really warmed up, I can even turn the volume control without ringing if being very careful. If it starts to ring slightly, 30 seconds and it's gone. Using the laptop on the table, moving things and generally working causes some ringing, but not very loud. My unit needs to be isolated on a different surface. Typing next to /touching the unit causes ringing, but once warm it's not that bad and fades quickly.
  
 Using the IEMs, it eventually goes completely silent in terms of the ringing, but the noise in the amp sounds like water running in the background. To me it's a no-go for iems or even my vmoda M80.
  
 Comparing to the O2 amp, using an ODAC as source, I find that it has thicker tone and the bass lingers longer. Detail is at the same level, cant really tell any big difference in soundstaging or imaging. I like the added impact/thickness that's added, when changing amps I find that I want to turn up the O2 to get the same bass response. Overall the midrange feels thicker.
  
 Please note that I've got no way of level matching the units, and even short term memory is a fickle thing... For the tone differences, as Harman Kardon's "How to listen" illustrates, characteristics are often not based in the frequency range you guess.


----------



## tdockweiler

davidsh said:


> How is the general sound signature of this amp, can't really get a grasp of it?


 
  
 Sounds very neutral to me. No emphasis to me. Originally I thought somewhat in the low mids but I think it just might not be a good match for my DJ100.
 It doesn't mess with how my headphones normally sound.
  
 I would definitely say the mids are very very very very slightly fuller than they are on the O2. About the same as my Micro Amp.
  
 It doesn't magically make the mids of my headphone super thick or anything.
  
 It doesn't smooth over trebly/super bright songs or anything but perhaps smoother than something like the O2. Definitely not by much at all.
  
 I really can't believe how natural/neutral this sounds to ME.
  
 EDIT: This was with the modded Q701 on day one.


----------



## K.T.

For those who haven't played with tubes before, they can be highly variable in their quirks and foibles.
  
 So while you may get essentially the same sound signature from a batch of tubes, the individual tubes may vary in gain, amount of microphonics, noise and hiss, etc from sample to sample.
  
 To get the most satisfying results, you'd want to match them into stereo pairs for gain (so one side isn't louder than the other), and weed out the ones that are unacceptably microphonic.
  
 That's what audio tube vendors normally do. You'll see them sold in matched pairs, and graded as to the quality (the more costly grades are selected for low noise and low microphonics).
  
 Of course, all that takes work. For the price that Schiit is asking for the Vali, I doubt that they can afford to go through a tube selection process like that. So that may explain why some of your Valis ring more than others, and why you may have more microphonics in one channel vs the other.
  
 Still, a very exciting product!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I though Schiit rapid prototyped a rig to do just that


----------



## FallenKnight71

nic rhodes said:


> I though Schiit rapid prototyped a rig to do just that


 

 From what I read in this loooonnnggg thread, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The prototyped rig(if I understand what your meaning)  was used to attach the tubes to the board.  Also I believe I read that the reason it took more time to produce enough for the roll-out was because it took them awhile to test and match the tubes. 
  
 Michael


----------



## Nic Rhodes

thanks


----------



## K.T.

fallenknight71 said:


> From what I read in this loooonnnggg thread,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, if they did it, then that's the case.
  
 I was just surmising that might be why some folks were getting more ringing in one channel more than the other. But if matching took place, that's great.


----------



## hmorneau

Anybody had the chance to test it with the T1?
  
 I should get my Vali next week, I will test it with the DT880 and T1.
  
 I'm curious to see how it will sound compared to my Auditor.


----------



## FallenKnight71

Yeah! Mine arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I am going to let it warm up a bit before I plug it in and turn it on.  I do have to say I should have spent the extra money for USPS Priority.  I hate waiting.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Will give impressions after burn in.  What would people suggest as a good safe way to burn the Vali in?
  
 Thanks
 Michael


----------



## jbarrentine

Damn this thing really spanks 598s. 
  
 Non-pro opinion without buzzwords: I love it. This however is my first 'proper' amp, as before I was using a Topping TP41 speaker amp that happened to have a headphone jack. The topping drives 598 ok, but this is clearly superior in every way but one: My Vali seems left channel 'heavy', or slightly louder or offset left more than right. Noticeably so. I offset the left channel to 95/100 balance in Windows and it seems fine now. Other people might not notice, and this might be standard for better amps than I've used so I can't call it a flaw. I did see the other post noting that these tubes probably weren't matched at this price, and that I can fully understand. With the -5 to one side they sound spectacular to me. 
  
 Being that I'm only comparing to a previous shoddy amp I can't do anything but whole heartedly recommend the Vali. It does everything better, in spades. It's also well built and much heavier than I thought it would be in hand. I finally understand the term 'round' in relation to audio playback.
  
 Microphonics are not really noticeable to me personally. There was very slight ringing on power on, that went away in roughly 15 seconds. 
  
 I haven't tested extensively but did momentarily load up an MKV of The Originals and couldn't hear any audible hissing or anything else during speech or quiet scenes.
  
 I hope to convince the Gods that Be to let me try my T90 which are sitting waiting for Christmas to arrive, but that might have to wait. 
  
 PC (320 and flac) > HRT MS II > Vali > Senns 598
  
 edit: on further listening the 'left offset' is most likely the proper voicing of an amp that I wasn't getting with my previous POS cheap amp. I'll listen more.


----------



## Skipshrike

Has anyone paired this with an AKG K7xx headphone? I have a K712 Pro and I'm curious if this might be a good fit. I had been considering the Magni until the Vali was released.


----------



## ejwiles

eric_c said:


> I have a DT 880 (the 250-ohm version), and just got my Vali today. Is that a useful comparison? I'm not sure how the sound sig compares to the DT250.
> 
> Basically: yeah, I'm happy with this Schiit. Can't wait for my Mad Dogs to come in.


 
 I'd love to hear what you thought about the Vali paired with DT 880/250-ohms.


----------



## HPiper

jbarrentine said:


> Damn this thing really spanks 598s.
> 
> Non-pro opinion without buzzwords: I love it. This however is my first 'proper' amp, as before I was using a Topping TP41 speaker amp that happened to have a headphone jack. The topping drives 598 ok, but this is clearly superior in every way but one: My Vali seems left channel 'heavy', or slightly louder or offset left more than right. Noticeably so. I offset the left channel to 95/100 balance in Windows and it seems fine now. Other people might not notice, and this might be standard for better amps than I've used so I can't call it a flaw. I did see the other post noting that these tubes probably weren't matched at this price, and that I can fully understand. With the -5 to one side they sound spectacular to me.
> 
> ...


 
  
   I don't know about the imbalance, you might want to shoot an email to them and ask about that. I have two tube amps and neither one of them has any channel imbalance at all.


----------



## elwappo99

skipshrike said:


> Has anyone paired this with an AKG K7xx headphone? I have a K712 Pro and I'm curious if this might be a good fit. I had been considering the Magni until the Vali was released.


 
  
  
 Got the Vali about 20 hours ago so I'm hesitant to post any solid thoughts on this unit. 
  
  
 I've got a K702 Anniversary and Q701 on hand. The Q701 has really great synergy with the Vali. The Vali's looser bass just hits a nice spot with the Q701, and the Vali really shows off how much more resolving, spacious and detailed the Q701 is over the K702 anniversary.


----------



## kstuart

gideon228 said:


> I've just put 200h of burn in through this little amp with my HD650s and put on Explorers by Muse. WOW! The details in the piano are so realistic and the ghostly harmonies are almost life like. This is some good Schiit!!


 
 It hasn't been anywhere near 200 hours since release, let along shipping time.  If yours was shipped the first day, and you received them overnight, then at the point you posted, at best you would have 92 hours.  I suspect a math error.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Anyone have an HE4 handy and can see how it pairs with their Vali?


----------



## Happy Camper

soundsgoodtome said:


> Anyone have an HE4 handy and can see how it pairs with their Vali?


----------



## kstuart

soundsgoodtome said:


> I find it surprising people are comparing the Vali to the Lyr since the power output is much higher on the latter... yet it sounds almost as good?
> 
> Vali:
> 32 ohms: 650mW RMS per channelMax
> ...


 

 Sound quality is not proportional to power.   A 700 horsepower car may not drive as well as a 200 horsepower car, depending on all the other factors.
  
 Presumably, the high power of the Lyr is mainly aimed at very power hungry headphones like the HE6.


----------



## Krem

Subscribed.


----------



## MickeyVee

Still waiting. I ordered mine on release day early in the day.  it shipped a couple of days later and I was hoping that I'd have it for the weekend.. especially since they have already been delivered to the UK.  Oh well, next week sometime.  
 My source will be the Woo WA7 DAC RCA out so I should easily be able to com are the two amp sections.  It will be fun.  Will eventually be using it with the Dragonfly.  In the mean time, Looking forward to reading all the initial impressions.


----------



## genclaymore

I hoping some one who has a vali that also have a DT880 premium 600 to show up, because i wanna know how the two sound together.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

kstuart said:


> Sound quality is not proportional to power.   A 700 horsepower car may not drive as well as a 200 horsepower car, depending on all the other factors.
> 
> Presumably, the high power of the Lyr is mainly aimed at very power hungry headphones like the HE6.




Aren't the majority of planar magnetics considered to be power hungry? If these do well with higher tier, power hungry headphones, is the idea that the user is missing out on greater sq by not going higher with the amp be void? Let's say he500 or he4. Not too familiar with the LCD lineup but its to my understanding those do well with power as well (reading up on the Lyr).

I'm seriously considering getting a better amp to add to my DAC/AMP for my he400 and possibly an he500 or he4 in the future. Something tells me a Lyr or something in that range is what I want.. but if a Vali is the little amp that could, well then.


----------



## MattTCG

kstuart said:


> Sound quality is not proportional to power.   A 700 horsepower car may not drive as well as a 200 horsepower car, depending on all the other factors.
> 
> Presumably, the high power of the Lyr is mainly aimed at very power hungry headphones like the HE6.


The Lyr is just enough for the he4&6. Some would say not really enough. I would be in that camp.


----------



## Eric_C

ejwiles said:


> I'd love to hear what you thought about the Vali paired with DT 880/250-ohms.


 
 It's pretty good. Sound is quite clear, detailed; maybe only slightly tilted towards warm-of-neutral; bass could be deeper, but if I never heard my headphones through better amps I wouldn't really notice I guess.
  
 Definitely quite loud, btw. Volume is barely at 10 o'clock--bearing in mind that I don't listen to my music loud--and I think that at 11 o'clock it's uncomfortably loud.


----------



## gideon228

kstuart said:


> It hasn't been anywhere near 200 hours since release, let along shipping time.  If yours was shipped the first day, and you received them overnight, then at the point you posted, at best you would have 92 hours.  I suspect a math error.


 

 Good pickup... It was 20h. Time flies when you're listening to music through the Vali


----------



## jbarrentine

Regarding my previous post about my Vali being 'left heavy', which I was unsure of, I've listened more, specifically to video sources and determined it's most definitely not. Voice in video files is very properly centered. I'm simply not used to the dynamics of music though a much nicer amp than I had before. 
  
 I love this thing. I have never been to meets or had experience with the array of product that many of you have so my opinion is more the average man's but at $120 I can't imagine it getting better than this.


----------



## JoeKickass

> Originally Posted by *FallenKnight71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Will give impressions after burn in.  What would people suggest as a good safe way to burn the Vali in?


 
 Mine seemed to enjoy pink noise last night, I did 20 minutes on and 2 minutes off for about 10 hours. Sounded great in the morning!


----------



## kstuart

soundsgoodtome said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > Sound quality is not proportional to power.   A 700 horsepower car may not drive as well as a 200 horsepower car, depending on all the other factors.
> ...


 
 Okay, you didn't mention planar specifically in the original post, and they indeed do better with more power, although I find that the power rating of the output is not the whole story., you still have to try the pairing.   Yes, some people use the Emotiva $200 mini speaker amp connected to planars like the HE500.
  
 But for dynamic headphones like the Senn 598 or the Sony MA900s, the power rating of the Vali should be plenty enough (in fact there was recently a positive impression on the Vali with the HD800s).


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *FallenKnight71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> What would people suggest as a good safe way to burn the Vali in?


 
 If it is convenient, the simplest way is to just take an iPod (or equivalent) plug it into the Vali inputs, plug headphones into the output, and put all of that in a closet (assuming that you can get a power cord in there).  I think that since the equipment is for playing music, then playing music through it is guaranteed to work as a break-in.
  
 In my case, I have a bedside Internet table radio with a headphone jack, so I connect that to the amp, and then put the headphones in a box with some clothes, so that it doesn't wake me up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I did a web search, and interestingly, the Schiit Bitfrost DAC is notorious for needing 100 hours minimum, and taking two months of use to really get to its best.  The culprit is thought to be "Teflon capacitors" (I'm not sure if Vali has any).


----------



## jimmers

soundsgoodtome said:


> Aren't the majority of planar magnetics considered to be power hungry?


 
 According to Innerfidelity's measurements HE400 only needs a fifth of the power required by the K701 for the same SPL (0.33mW for 90dB)
  
 HE-6 however ...


----------



## achristilaw

Have about 16 hrs. on the lil' Vali..... $119.00 buy's a helluva lotta' heart! The high voltage rails love the higher impedance Sennheiser 600, leaves enough left over current to push, fairly convincingly, the HE-500. The very sensitive psb M4U1 loves the articulation of the very linear Raytheon's that are used on the inlet. I can hear only a slight hiss (tube rush) using the psb.... it totally is masked from the first note. This amp is highly recommended!
  
 Microphonics are not a problem if you plug a phone before start-up and leave it plugged for the session. Another day, another phone..... I'm using some of the cork, rubber insulators (TTVJ) to lift it from the table and let air flow all around. It does get warm from a day of pounding
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 The amp has a natural, very organic capability. I was flabbergasted at it's ease of dissemination of some fairly dense and dynamic Classical material (Mahler!), then the spread of some massed choral vocals that simply glowed and bloomed during playback. Most convincing! From Rock to Rachmaninoff, it didn't care......


----------



## Happy Camper

soundsgoodtome said:


> Anyone have an HE4 handy and can see how it pairs with their Vali?


The 4 is a much harder can to drive than the 400. The 4, 5, 6 are power monsters where the 400, 500 don't need as much. I still feel the 500s do better though with a bit more than a .5 watt amp. It will starve the amp when you start turning up the power.


----------



## Sopp

I am using Vali with K701. Usually microphonics disappear within two mins. However, sometimes the left channel keeps ringing and never dies out while the right channel is silent. It happened without a touch. I have to shut down the Vali, wait for a few minutes and then turn on the power to solve the issue. Does any one have this problem?
  
 edited: The problem happened to the right too, and I am sure that nothing hit the amp.


----------



## rreifsn

Just got my Vali less than an hour ago and started testing it out with HE-400s.  So far so good.  However after the first track I played I ran into the issue Sopp has.  My right channel had a steady ring while the left was silent.  Turning it off cleared the ring.  I'm hoping this isn't a persistent problem.  I'll update this later after further testing.


----------



## achristilaw

happy camper said:


> The 4 is a much harder can to drive than the 400. The 4, 5, 6 are power monsters where the 400, 500 don't need as much. I still feel the 500s do better though with a bit more than a .5 watt amp. It will starve the amp when you start turning up the power.


 

 Yes, if you push... it will run out of steam. It wasn't purpose built for Ortho's, it's just the capabilities of a cheapie amp that makes a person grin and wonder.


----------



## achristilaw

rreifsn said:


> Just got my Vali less than an hour ago and started testing it out with HE-400s.  So far so good.  However after the first track I played I ran into the issue Sopp has.  My right channel had a steady ring while the left was silent.  Turning it off cleared the ring.  I'm hoping this isn't a persistent problem.  I'll update this later after further testing.


 

 Just keep your paws off when powered, that and don't swap phones while running you won't hear any microphony baloney. If you do swap.....YES, it will be a persistent "problem".


----------



## GBechz

achristilaw said:


> The amp has a natural, very organic capability. I was flabbergasted at it's ease of dissemination of some fairly dense and dynamic Classical material (Mahler!), then the spread of some massed choral vocals that simply glowed and bloomed during playback. Most convincing! From Rock to Rachmaninoff, it didn't care......




Great to see a Mahler review for Vali. Definitely helps me with my decision.
 Thanks!


----------



## jbarrentine

Pulled out the T90s. Currently Decimating Daft Punk's Random Access Memories. 
  
 I personally have no need to go higher end than this for quite some time. I'm done. 
  
 The Game of Love 'And it was yoouuuuu', I can hear his voice tremble slightly as he breathes. Just astounding. Finally glad I'm at a tier high enough to at least understand how incredibly pleased many of you have been on the high end for so long. Giorgio just started and I can hear people's silverware clicking on plates in the background during the intro speech. Something there were hints of before that now exists in great detail. Every nuance just shines. 
  
 I feel grateful. I know there's better, but I'm just flabbergasted for what I'm getting out of $120.
  
 PC (320 and flac) > HRT MS II > Vali > T90 and HD598


----------



## jexby

happy camper said:


> The 4 is a much harder can to drive than the 400. The 4, 5, 6 are power monsters where the 400, 500 don't need as much. I still feel the 500s do better though with a bit more than a .5 watt amp. It will starve the amp when you start turning up the power.


 
  
 I'd like some planar guru to explain this "starve the amp" in the case of an HE-500, with Vali.
 during normal listening I can't even handle turning the volume past 12oclock without it being insanely loud.
 hence, a ton of headroom left on the volume pot.
 (and hey, I went to my share of 1980s/90s punk rock shows, up front and am not afraid of volume. heh)
  
 Is starve the amp saying:
  
 1.  an underpowered amp can't *easily* deliver enough mW to drive headphones without losing quality?
 or
 2.  an underpowered amp can't take you into and beyond safe/loud listening levels (beyond 115dB?) without losing quality?
  
 I'm not saying "more power" is a bad thing, heck- I've got the Lyr with the HE-500 also, and can't listen with volume past 10-11 on the dial.
 (see earlier posting for my preference for the Lyr) 
  
 but from what HE-500 specs I could uncover:
 sensitivity = 89 SPL dB/mW
 ohms = 38
  
 thus, max power to get to 115dB (club concert level)  at 38 ohms = 398mW
 Vali should be able to deliver 547mW at 38 ohms.
 would an amp with +37% headroom beyond the 115dB driving level be "starved" unless I wanted to be deaf within the hour?
  
 I can't grasp whether the "underpowered amp theory" (which is pervasive in the HE-500 and Lyr threads also) is
 only "subjective = more power, sounds better even at lower listening volumes"
 or
 an actual "I need mohr power to crank it up to louder volumes to get the best quality" of the headphones.
  
 either way, with only 1 day of these amps side by side (burn in not complete, no blind A/B tests) my ears hear:
 - the Vali is not underpowered in terms of adequately driving the HE-500
 - the Lyr (with Ediswan) tubes still deliver a tad better quality in terms of sound stage, low bass details, instrument separation.
  
 if the Lyr "wins" *simply* due to having a ton more of wattage, please clue me in as to why.
 as I feel it's a pairing and "tube type" differences, if not any/all of the surrounding circuitry in either amp.
 and not simply more watts.


----------



## Modular

soundsgoodtome said:


> I'm seriously considering getting a better amp to add to my DAC/AMP for my he400 and possibly an he500 or he4 in the future. Something tells me a Lyr or something in that range is what I want.. but if a Vali is the little amp that could, well then.


 
  
 From all that I've read (no real world experience here) and from common sense - no. This will not drive the HE4 well at all. People are hooking up speaker amps to those phones. This might be a great bargain, but don't get carried away...


----------



## guerillaw

If you are following this thread with an interest in the amp: *Just buy it. *
  
  
 I am lucky enough to live near Schiit's offices and picked mine up wednesday before thanksgiving. My intention was to post a hopefully helpful write-up of how the Vali fared driving my AKG 712 Pro as compared to the Dacport. I love the Dacport but the little wonder just cannot drive larger and/or low sensitivity phones. 
  
 No back land forth needed here. 120? You cannot get a system improvement this significant and enjoyable for 120 any other way. The 712 pro is singing and I cannot complain. Would a 1k amp to one kind of another be better? I should hope so, but this thing pushes these cans to a level that justifies their price and makes my toes tap. I bought and sold a pair of HD700 that were just too bright with the humble amps I had. I now wonder what the Vali might have done with them but not for too long as the Vali 712 combo is keeping me smiling. 
  
 If you are at all interested, order one ASAP. Worst case scenario you lose 10 bucks reselling it as someone will be glad to buy it off you. I am pondering a second one myself.....


----------



## Taowolf51

Has anyone tried the Vali with an LCD-2.2? I tried it with a 2.1 and wasn't that enthusiastic about it.


----------



## TheGame

guerillaw said:


> If you are following this thread with an interest in the amp: *Just buy it. *
> 
> 
> I am lucky enough to live near Schiit's offices and picked mine up wednesday before thanksgiving. My intention was to post a hopefully helpful write-up of how the Vali fared driving my AKG 712 Pro as compared to the Dacport. I love the Dacport but the little wonder just cannot drive larger and/or low sensitivity phones.
> ...


 

 Can't wait to get mine to use with the HD650's!


----------



## kstuart

in my Vali..


----------



## bearFNF

Just ordered mine, was very impressed with this amp using my HD800's at CanJam.  Also order the Loki to complete my mini Schiit stack.  Although, the magni may be on the block...now.


----------



## K.T.

It seems that the ringing issue is quite wide spread. 

It seems like such a common and irritating issue that I wouldn't be surprised if Schiit will sooner or later engineer some sort of solution for later production runs. I wonder what that will be, ultimately.

There's been mention of an amp stand. Will that be enough? 

I'm sure the DIY crowd will have a field day playing with damping materials, etc.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I suspect like matching they have done all they can before the launch of the amp as it was widely talked about before the launch. Certainly not an issue here atm.
  
 Quote:


jason stoddard said:


> A quick update on Vali: it's taken us a little longer than expected to perfect the* 3D-printed test fixture* for the tubes, but as of today, they're being *matched *and binned for production. That means we're probably only a few days away from getting boards in quantity. This means we're looking at a launch next week.
> 
> In the meantime, here's one of the official Vali shots:
> 
> ...


----------



## MattTCG

jexby said:


> I'd like some planar guru to explain this "starve the amp" in the case of an HE-500, with Vali.
> during normal listening I can't even handle turning the volume past 12oclock without it being insanely loud.
> hence, a ton of headroom left on the volume pot.
> (and hey, I went to my share of 1980s/90s punk rock shows, up front and am not afraid of volume. heh)
> ...


 
  
 Here is my "non technical" answer. Getting the best sound is not about pushing decibels and the ability to make the hp "loud" with room left on the pot still. It's more about the amps ability to use power to to tap into the hp and give it what it needs to sound it's best. 
  
 There are a couple of good examples here. The lyr is one. It does power with refinement. But it never overpowers on hp's that it is rated for. The hd650 has good scale and the lyr taps into what it takes to sound really really nice. There are dynamics brought out by the lyr that I have not experienced with other amps, but it can also bring out delicate abilities that wow me also. 
  
 Second example was when I tried the he-4 on a vintage Pioneer receiver. I've owned the he-4 twice and have tried it on a half dozen amps including the lyr. I have never, I repeat never, heard what the he-4 really sounds like until the day that I plugged it into the Pioneer sx1280. It was shocking. The bass "came alive" with weight and texture and just amazed me. Many of these old receivers use the same output stage for the hp out as they do for speakers...no need for speakers taps to get a sense of what they can do.


----------



## jbarrentine

k.t. said:


> It seems that the ringing issue is quite wide spread.
> 
> It seems like such a common and irritating issue that I wouldn't be surprised if Schiit will sooner or later engineer some sort of solution for later production runs. I wonder what that will be, ultimately.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I worried about this, but don't have a problem with it at all. Right now it's sitting on a stack of paper on top of my other amp, so it might just be very isolated. I plan to get some very thick feet or a piece of rubber or something today. Whatever minor fiddling has to be done by the end user is still worth it. This little amp is wonderful.


----------



## Misterrogers

k.t. said:


> It seems that the ringing issue is quite wide spread.
> 
> It seems like such a common and irritating issue that I wouldn't be surprised if Schiit will sooner or later engineer some sort of solution for later production runs. I wonder what that will be, ultimately.
> 
> ...


 
 Tube noobs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is a very common occurrence with small signal tubes/designs. Just check out the market for tube dampeners. I remember when I tracked down my first pair of pinched-waist NOS tubes; if I looked at them too long they'd ring. Couldn't take them out though - sonically. It's my believe that just a smidge of microphonics contributes a bit to a sense of 'air'. This mechanical vibration/distortion can oscillate (not a good thing) or distract when it's too much, but Vali is walking the edge just fine. Not to mention that whole "void the warranty" thing if you open her up.
  
 If the ringing settles down, just enjoy the phenomenal sound of this little amp. If it doesn't, ask Jason to swap them out. Dampening the mechanical structure of the amp is fine, but I wouldn't try to dampen the tubes themselves. Just my preference, but I like what a tube on the edge brings.


----------



## Eric_C

I think the micro phonics are fine. Ringing fades within a minute, only occurs if I tap the chassis or if I hit the knob.
No ringing from typing on my keyboard on same table; table is a wooden, built-in.
Is anyone who's experiencing ringing, using the Vali on an unstable surface to begin with?


----------



## FallenKnight71

Microphonics are not an issue here as well.  I have used HD650s and ZMF Fostex Mod.  When turning on the Vali the ringing goes away in both before 30 seconds.  The same with leaving it on and switching between the headphones.  By the way the sound from this little amp on both is wonderful.


----------



## purrin

Keep in mind that tube microphonics will be more apparent with sensitive headphones.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Do you still stand by your claim that the Vali is comparable to an amp 10x it's price? I couldn't remember the quote exactly. Just curious.


----------



## purrin

Yes. I'm still waiting for my 4x45 SET amp to be built. In the meantime, the Vali is getting me by with the Abyss, HE-500, and Paradox. I can easily afford a $1k (buy used, sell used) in the interim, but I don't see anything I'd rather use at this point. I already have a Mjolnir, but that amp is on speaker duty. Maybe an Eddie Current Super 7 if I can find one for cheap.
  
 I've said it before, but the $500-$1200 range is pretty barren. A lot of craptastic stuff in that bracket.
  
 YMMV. BTW, I thought I should mention this. Get a Bifrost with the digital board upgrade. Anything less and you are using less than 50% of Vali's capability. Modi doesn't cut it. This is huge. I'm using ~$4K DAC+USB/i2s converters with mine.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ And you would rate the Vali better than the lyr with price inconsequential.


----------



## JoeKickass

k.t. said:


> It seems that the ringing issue is quite wide spread. It seems like such a common and irritating issue that I wouldn't be surprised if Schiit will sooner or later engineer some sort of solution for later production runs.


 
  
 It's a non-issue IMO, the rubber feet they give you are pretty good isolators, and it's easy enough to put it somewhere stable.
  
 My monoprice 8323's are a bit too sensitive though and I could hear the noise floor, so I added a -10 dB attenuator and the noise is gone! It also significantly reduced the micro-phonic ringing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My account can't post pictures yet, so here's a dramatic movie of the picture:


----------



## purrin

matttcg said:


> ^^ And you would rate the Vali better than the lyr with price inconsequential.


 
  
 Depends upon the headphone used. But with the headphones I listed above or with an HD800, a resounding yes. Lyr is notably warm sounding and has better macro-dynamics (bass impact and slam, although Vali is no slouch). Vali is more neutral and reproduces more micro-dynamics and micro-detail than Lyr. Vali is more lively sounding and detailed. Vali wins for me.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thanks for the clarification. I could not resist the hype on this one. I'll have it early next week and will get to see for myself if it lives up to the billing.


----------



## SMG52

Loads of isolation, dampening products here. Super guy to deal with as well. He may have some suggestions for people with microphonics/vibrational issues:
  
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> YMMV. BTW, I thought I should mention this. *Get a Bifrost with the digital board upgrade. Anything less and you are using less than 50% of Vali's capability. Modi doesn't cut it*. This is huge. I'm using ~$4K DAC+USB/i2s converters with mine.


 
  
 50% huh? You're a funny guy! Do you work for Schiit now? Maybe they should start sending you a paycheck!
  
 So how much does the ODAC hold back the Vali? About 55% based on your calculations?
  
 The Modi holds the Vali back a tiny bit and I don't use it so much, but i've heard it. With some music it was really not noticeable at all.
  
 Seriously with the average mid-fi headphone do you actually think people will notice?
  
 I'd have to be nuts to suggest a $400 DAC with a $120 amp and only an HD-600 or Q701.
  
 I really hope a $1600 amp doesn't sound like this. NOTE: I do like the Vali though, but some of these comments are bizarre.
  
 Maybe my sarcasm detection meter is running low.
  
 Right now it's very comparable to my current amp, which cost $250-$300 on sale. Maybe that thing sounds like a $1600 amp too. I actually think it's was better than the O2/Magni/Asgard1/2. Well, I'm just glad I found a Schiit amp that's pretty good.
  
 Someday i'll try this fancy-pants Bifrost with board upgrade. If it's even a 10% improvement over what I have then i'll be surprised.


----------



## TMRaven

In all fairness though, the Bifrost is amazing.


----------



## oopeteroo

vali+modi how does it compare to Audio-GD NFB-11.32 for hd650 and he500?


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> 50% huh? You're a funny guy! Do you work for Schiit now? Maybe they should start sending you a paycheck!
> 
> So how much does the ODAC hold back the Vali? About 55% based on your calculations?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The ODAC, when it's working properly (with good USB power, which is hit or miss depending upon your laptop or PC) is a very very good DAC. The reason I don't wholeheartedly recommend it is because of its varying performance according to the power quality of USB ports.
  
 I think people with mid-fi cans like the HD-600, HE-400, etc. will definitely notice. I stand by my recommendation of a $400 DAC with this $120 amp. But as you mentioned, recording quality is crucial. Not really worth it if most of what we listen to consists of Japanese anime music soundtracks or odd-ball Pink Floyd dance remixes.
  
 I used to own your current amp - the HR Microamp. It's probably one of the better ones in the HR lineup. The higher-end HR stuff sounds like nasty nasty solid-state. However, my opinion of the Microamp is contrary to that of yours. Its SQ is worth $49 to me. The HR Microamp sounds really closed in and kind of dead and boring. (Honestly, I'd take a CMOY / CHA44 with choice op-amps +/- 12 voltage rails over it. I actually built one years go and dumped the HR Microamp afterward.) I figure this is due to differences in source and recordings. YMMV, FWIW, my 2 cents, IMHO, etc.


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> The ODAC, when it's working properly (with good USB power, which is hit or miss depending upon your laptop or PC) is a very very good DAC. The reason I don't wholeheartedly recommend it is because of its varying performance according to the power quality of USB ports.
> 
> I think people with mid-fi cans like the HD-600, HE-400, etc. will definitely notice. But as you mentioned, recording quality is crucial. Not really worth it if most of what we listen to consists of Japanese anime music soundtracks or odd-ball Pink Floyd dance remixes.
> 
> I used to own your current amp - the HR Microamp. It's probably one of the better ones in the HR lineup. The higher end HR stuff sounds like nasty nasty solid-state. However, my opinion of the Microamp is contrary to that of yours. The HR microamp sounds really closed in and kind of dead and boring. (Honestly, I'd take a CMOY / CHA44 with choice op-amps +/- 12 voltage rail sover it. I actually built one years go and dumped the HR Microamp afterward.) I figure this is due to differences in source and recordings.


 
  
 Here's the weird thing for me.. the Vali and Headroom Micro Amp (+ Astrodyne) sound extremely similar to me. Basically the same. I did 10-12 A/Bs and same results. Same DAC and same cables. I've been looking for the closest match I could find to the Micro Amp sound and the O2 was the closest, but the Vali was even closer. Maybe when I described what I'd improve on the O2, the Vali and Micro Amp fixes all that. Slightly fuller mids and very slightly smoother treble. We're talking like a 2% difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 About the closed in sound of the Micro Amp... IMO the Micro Amp NEEDS the Astrodyne unit. I'm sure you used that or maybe not, but it's cheap. I also noticed that with the stock power supply it absolutely HATES MOV based surge protectors and i've never figured out why. I can actually hear it crapping up the sound with only my DJ100 and very warm or bassy headphones. Not audible on the Q701 and most open headphones unless you have golden ears.
  
 I actually had noticeable improvements on the Q701 with the Astrodyne PS, but basically inaudible with my HD-650. I'd say the Micro Amp needs the Astrodyne to be at it's best. It is more analytical and clearer with the Astrodyne. Don't ask me why or how. Comparing it to an O2 without the Astrodyne does feel a bit odd. I can't say it's more than a 10% improvement though.
  
 I know that for a whole year I complained that the Micro Amp had a slightly closed in soundstage (when I was new to all this) but it was actually my DACs fault! Not sure if you agree but the HRT MSII is very closed in, too warm and not really smooth sounding. Once I switched to the ODAC, Modi and Micro DAC it was fine.
  
 You may think i'm nuts but I find the Micro Amp + Astrodyne to be my idea of a transparent amp and more so than the O2. It's weirding me out that the Vali sounds the way it does. Perhaps the Vali has more body to the sound, but I don't think so. The Vali's bass with my DJ100 is kind of loose/sloppy but maybe it's just a bad match. It's not that bad.
  
 I really hate to say this but the Vali doesn't sound too colored at all and not dramatically far off from being what I think is transparent. Makes no sense to me!
  
 OK, now I just want a solid state Vali, but even better.
  
 Oh and I like "dead and boring" amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Seriously the Vali is about as "fun" as my current amp which is a good thing. Both sound great with the modded Q701 (which you should try BTW).
  
 The Vali and Micro Amp to me sound like a more fun version of the O2. I won't say more colored, but just more natural sounding in the mids/treble. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It'll be fun to compare them more because so far I like them both. I'm sure i'll find something I don't like on the Vali. Doesn't sound entirely smooth with my DJ100 but maybe just not a good match or it needs more use.


----------



## stratocaster

After 3 days of listening to the Vali I have come to the conclusion that this was the best audio purchase I have ever made.  And, I just ordered another one.


----------



## TMRaven

What are you trying to get at with that post, tdock?  I came away confused.


----------



## tdockweiler

Hmm, I wonder what amp that Schiit sells is the closest match to the Vali's sound?
 For me it wasn't the Magni or Asgard 2.
  
 I'm not a fan of warm amps at all, but this I don't even consider warm. Just right without any thin mids etc.
 It doesn't sound like what I expected a tube amp to sound like (I know it's a hybrid amp).
  
 I'm kicking myself for getting the Asgard 2 over the Bifrost. Hopefully the Bifrost is still considered transparent or pretty close. Getting tired of that word..
 I bought a DAC upgrade two months ago and I guess I don't need another one for awhile. Maybe i'll try it out next year.
  
 I do love the Modi, so it'll be fun to compare it to the Bifrost since they have the same brand of DAC chipset.


----------



## Gorillaz

stratocaster said:


> After 3 days of listening to the Vali I have come to the conclusion that this was the best audio purchase I have ever made.  And, I just ordered another one.


 
 are you afraid that they won't build them anymore once they are out of stock, lol,?
 I will get mine tomorrow and report back its pairing with the Bayern DT990/600 ohms!


----------



## tdockweiler

tmraven said:


> What are you trying to get at with that post, tdock?  I came away confused.


 
  
*TL;DR Edition* just for you:
  
 Vali and my current amp (Headroom Micro + Astrodyne) sound very similar so this i'm pretty happy about ...
  
 You know i've only been trying to find an amp similar in sound to my Micro Amp for about a year..nothing under $300 came really close.
  
 I went from E9 > Magni > O2 > Asgard 2 > E17 > Vali
  
 Yeah I do ramble on a bit..if it bothers people they can just ignore me.
  
 Also..someone got me talking about the Micro Amp. I'm a fanboy of that thing more than anything else I own. Sorry!
  
 EDIT:
  
 BTW the Vali sounds pretty neutral/natural to me, so what is it EXACTLY that people are raving about? Basically all my music/headphones sounds mostly the same. I will connect up many crappy sources and see what happens. Hmm, i'm pretty sure i'm listening to my music and not the amp here. Nice!! I wonder if it will add any nice colorations to my Clip+ as a source. Not likely. No, I normally don't use a crappy Clip+ as a source unless i'm bored.


----------



## JoeKickass

So while I was admiring the Vali I looked inside it with a flashlight, and noticed one of my tubes was sticking up in the air!
  
 I opened it (being careful because the screws just thread right into the sheet metal) and pressed the tubes down firmly. When I first listened I thought it didn't make a difference, but then I noticed the ring died out in half the time! 
  
 So just something to look for if you have a ringy Vali, there are two white sticky foam pads underneath the tubes, and they seem to be good dampers but only if the tubes are correctly stuck to them


----------



## mangler

stratocaster said:


> After 3 days of listening to the Vali I have come to the conclusion that this was the best audio purchase I have ever made.  And, I just ordered another one.




I'll second that! I've totally been blown away by this thing. I used my LCD2.2 to go back and forth between the Vali and Mjolnir last night (from the W4S DAC2), and the Vali really held its own (I should also mention that I was able to use the same cable because I have an XLR->TRS adapter, so only the amps changed and I was able to make the switch in just seconds). The areas where the Vali just couldn't compete were bass control (it sounded relatively bloated), instrument separation, and soundstaging (relatively closed in sounding, and little of that out of head experience). I want to emphasize that this is relative to the superbly clean and powerful Mjolnir, and that that if I didn't have the Mjolnir I may not be saying these things. The funny thing is that everything else sounds so wonderful on the Vali that I don't even care about these shortcomings. To my ears, the Vali sounds sweeter (~euphonic?) than the Mjolnir, something that I personally quite enjoy and gives the Vali a lot of points in my book. I feel like the Vali is an extremely satisfying, exciting, and clear amp, but think its probably not a great choice as a studio amp or if you want the ultimate in clarity. However, these are just initial impressions, so take it with a grain of salt and yada yada. Anyway, I truly feel the is the most satisfying audio purchase I've made because of the amazing sound quality and stupid low price. 

I also want to mention that I briefly tried the Vali with AKG K550. I personally feel it's a bad combo because the hiss from the tubes is very noticeable (that's mostly why experience was brief  ). This was definitely not the case with the LCD2.2, as the background was black even with the volume all the way up.


----------



## TMRaven

Hm, it seems you're having some pre-conceived notions about tube and hybrid tube amps Tdock.  At first you apologized for thinking the Vali didn't sound colored and was close to 'transparent.'  Then you said the Vali sounded pretty neutral to you and then questioned as to why people were raving about it.  
  
 Now it seems as though you shouldn't have bought the Vali in the first place, when you said 'now I just want a Solid State Vali..'
  
  
 Is there some kind of personal bias against using a tube or hybrid tube amp?
  
  
  
 Now I can understand what you're ultimately trying to get it by asking what people are raving about with the Vali, but it seems as though you're looking for it to add colorations to your music instead of listening for finer nuances. 
  
  
 I still do recommend the Bifrost though, no matter what amp you put it with.


----------



## purrin

mangler said:


> I used my LCD2.2 to go back and forth between the Vali and Mjolnir last night (from the W4S DAC2), and the Vali really held its own (I should also mention that I was able to use the same cable because I have an XLR->TRS adapter, so only the amps changed and I was able to make the switch in just seconds). The areas where the Vali just couldn't compete were bass control (it sounded relatively bloated), instrument separation, and soundstaging (relatively closed in sounding, and little of that out of head experience).





> To my ears, the Vali sounds sweeter (~euphonic?) than the Mjolnir, something that I personally quite enjoy and gives the Vali a lot of points in my book.


 
  
 Yup. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but I enjoy the Vali more than the Mjolnir, at least with the Abyss. The Vali's shortcomings in bass control and overall precision are noted, but the Vali's sweeter sound, better ability to extract the softest sounds, faster more authoritative ability to make tiny changes in volume more than make up for those shortcomings.


----------



## tdockweiler

tmraven said:


> Hm, it seems you're having some pre-conceived notions about tube and hybrid tube amps Tdock.  At first you apologized for thinking the Vali didn't sound colored and was close to 'transparent.'  Then you said the Vali sounded pretty neutral to you and then questioned as to why people were raving about it.
> 
> Now it seems as though you shouldn't have bought the Vali in the first place, when you said 'now I just want a Solid State Vali..'
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I did have this idea in my brain of what a normal tube amp would sound like and what sort of colorations it MIGHT add and this had NONE of that. This is a huge plus for me and totally not what I expected. I have not heard a tube amp and I know that some tube amps can sound dead neutral apparently. I wouldn't really know. Yep and I know it's a hybrid.
  
 So i'm HAPPY with the VALI's sound and lack of any major coloration! I actually wasn't wanting it to add any colorations to my music but just expected some minor (nice) colorations. You know..I would even feel a bit weird saying it has a touch of warmth. I guess most would say it does. When it comes to the fullness of the mids it's about the same as my other amp, which is PERFECT. The Vali doesn't magically add weight to thin recordings thankfully.
  
 No personal bias at all against tubes. It's just that with a solid state there is no ringing. Ok, so I touch the Vali more than I should 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't lie and say it's not annoying. It is. I'm a bit weird and would glady pay an extra $100 if there was no ringing. Bizarre? Probably..
  
 When I asked about why people were raving about the Vali it was a serious question. I REALLY want to know what EXACTLY makes this so much better than the rest of the budget amps.
 For me it's just very clear and sounds natural. So does the O2 (for me), but this is even more so.
  
 I'm glad that this works equally well with most of my headphones. The HD-650 seems to benefit from it the most but I can't explain why yet.
  
 BTW my K400 is rather thin and bass-light and i'm glad to report the Vali doesn't fix this and make it sound any better to my ears. If the Vali was adding anything I probably would have heard it. That's actually a really good thing to me.


----------



## burnspbesq

Someday I will do a detailed comparo between the Vali and the amp section of my Hilo.
  
 Today will not be that day.  I'm just going to enjoy the Vali with a selection of familiar reference recordings (right now I'm listening to the Baltimore Symphony/Alsop recording of the Dvorak "New World" symphony).


----------



## FLguy

mangler said:


> ...I briefly tried the Vali with AKG K550. I personally feel it's a bad combo because the hiss from the tubes is very noticeable...


 
  
 Interesting, thanks for mentioning that. Is anyone else hearing - or not hearing - hiss with low impedance headphones?
  
 I'm in the market for an amp for use with low impedance phones now, higher impedance, later. So I'm interested to know...
  
 (Yeah, I realize that at the price of the Vali, I could replace and repurpose it later if needed when changing phones. I'd like to understand what to expect, and whether that's likely to be necessary.)


----------



## vipervick

Sigh,
  
 I just bought the Modi/Magni combo. Maybe I can get a Vali next Christmas...


----------



## jexby

purrin said:


> Vali is more neutral and reproduces more micro-dynamics and micro-detail than Lyr. Vali is more lively sounding and detailed. Vali wins for me.


 
  
 Purrin,
  
 what tubes are in your Lyr?
  
 I don't find the Vali more detailed for ALL instruments (seems it does like to put some emphasis on guitar strings), and this might be dependent on music genres.
 I get plenty more overall detail (bass and drums) in most songs from the Lyr, including a wider soundstage.
 Vali seems to center the music more "in your face".  (not bad, just different.)


----------



## kstuart

tdockweiler said:


> tmraven said:
> 
> 
> > What are you trying to get at with that post, tdock?  I came away confused.
> ...


 
 I am in a process of dealing with that myself.  Head-fi has one of the broadest memberships, many different cultures, both national and demographic.
  
 I find that I write the sentences that explain exactly what I am thinking about the subject under discussion, but when I look at the result, it is very often a TL;DNR post for 99% of people.  So that is not communicating.   Conversely, I may not have the time to condense it to a perfect three sentence post.  Yes, it's a dilemma...


----------



## kstuart

purrin said:


> I stand by my recommendation of a $400 DAC with this $120 amp.


 
 When I stated exactly that, a few monts ago, various people ridiculed it (incl TMRaven 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).
  
 I am using a $350 DAC, the HRT MSTwoPlus, and I know exactly how it compares to the $150 HRT MSTwo.   My peception is that I would rather have the $200 spent in the DAC than after the DAC in the chain.
  
 Why? Because once your DAC is missing information, even a $1600 amp and HD-800s cannot put back the missing information.  In fact, the quality amp and super-analytical headphones will clearly show you that your DAC is not reproducing what is on the recording.
  
 Let's see - $350 DAC, $120 Vali and $180 MA900s - I would rather have that than $100 DAC and $550 worth of amp & headphones.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Glad to see the ma900 getting some love. It's a lot of hp for the money.


----------



## kstuart

jexby said:


> happy camper said:
> 
> 
> > The 4 is a much harder can to drive than the 400. The 4, 5, 6 are power monsters where the 400, 500 don't need as much. I still feel the 500s do better though with a bit more than a .5 watt amp. It will starve the amp when you start turning up the power.
> ...


 
 What I hear is "congestion".  When I try the Vali with the Alpha Dog, if you have one vocalist with a guitar, it sounds great.   But if you have a lot of stuff going on at once, you will hear some congestion.   Conversely, when I use the Vali with the (dynamic driver) MA900s, no congestion.


----------



## SMG52

kstuart said:


> When I stated exactly that, a few monts ago, various people ridiculed it (incl TMRaven
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Reminds me of 'back in the day' of high end audio, when Linn Sondek of Britain campaigned about the importance of the turntable/arm/cartridge in the chain......feeling it to be THE most important link. If you don't get it off the record, you can't recover it down the line. Others eventually caught on and many high end turntables began to hit the market (and are still being produced today, including the venerable Linn Sondek). Sorry for the ramble.....


----------



## kstuart

Short 90 hour burn-in report:
  
 BIggest difference is that out of the box, my Vali was slightly shy on top end, low on "air".   Burn-in removed this entirely, now there is plenty of "air".
  
 At this point, I think this is a good value for $120, but that may vary depending on headphone.  I would definitely prefer this to Magni, with the same possible exceptions.
  
 More on Monday at this time...


----------



## SMG52

From the horses' mouth (at Linn) about the importance of source in the hi-fi chain:
  
http://www.linn.co.uk/all-products/turntables/sondek-lp12


----------



## MattTCG

It would be nice if they OP/someone would compile a list of hp's that are a good/bad match for the Vali. If this already exist then my apologies.


----------



## TMRaven

I don't remember ridiculing anybody recommending a 400 dollar dac with the 120 dollar Vali, it might've been some other amplifier. You're gonna have to pull that one up for me.


----------



## jexby

eric_c said:


> I think the micro phonics are fine. Ringing fades within a minute, only occurs if I tap the chassis or if I hit the knob.


 
  
 I concur with this, not a big deal with my Vali either.
  
 funny enough, I sort of like to hear the ringing fade away as my headphones are on.... reminds me of leaving a 1988 Flaming Lips concert and not being able to hear for days.
 ha!


----------



## M-13

Not sure why people hate spending money on DACs. It's like people don't mind pairing $400 headphones to budget $100 dacs but pairing $400 dollar DACs to mid-fi cans is seen as ridiculous? After hearing what good sounding DACs can do for your musical enjoyment it's hard to go back. I have no problem with someone saying Bifrost Uber is the minimum required for me to properly enjoy the Vali.
  
 People are so ready to stretch their budget and spend big money on cans and sometimes amps but dacs get no love. If your source isn't all that great, what's the point of amplifying that source and sending the signal along to a transducer stuck to your ears? You buy amps and headphones to better hear your source basically.


----------



## ninjames

Yeah ... finding it hard to take this rec from Purrin seriously after saying anything less than the upgraded Bifrost would be keeping the Vali 50 percent under its potential. It's hyperbole like that which this hobby of our's doesn't need! I'm going to get the Vali, but those impressions are basically worthless after that!


----------



## zerodeefex

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. I'm going to have to second Purrin's recommendation that a better DAC is justified with the Vali. I moved from the ODAC to the X-Sabre with Vali > HD800s/Paradox this weekend and the improvement was noticeable. Bass was a little more detailed, but midrange clarity increased noticeably and the soundstage has opened up a ton. In fact, I think this is a great pairing as the slightly sterile X-Sabre benefits from the liquid quality of the Vali. 
  
 I literally am contemplating a much nicer DAC purchase for my main rig so I can take the X-Sabre home to pair it with the Vali in my beside rig. This little amp is really a winner.


----------



## M-13

zerodeefex said:


> Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. I'm going to have to second Purrin's recommendation that a better DAC is justified with the Vali. I moved from the ODAC to the X-Sabre with Vali > HD800s/Paradox this weekend and the improvement was noticeable. Bass was a little more detailed, but midrange clarity increased noticeably and the soundstage has opened up a ton. In fact, I think this is a great pairing as the slightly sterile X-Sabre benefits from the liquid quality of the Vali.
> 
> I literally am contemplating a much nicer DAC purchase for my main rig so I can take the X-Sabre home to pair it with the Vali in my beside rig. This little amp is really a winner.


 

 Congrats on the X-Sabre! Did you get that holiday discount?
  
 My Concero is said to share a similar signature. Your sabre shouldn't be sterile if it sounds anything like the Concero. It's actually sort of on the "musical" side for a neutral dac. But it is neutral so I guess it depends on perspectives...


----------



## thegunner100

m-13 said:


> Not sure why people hate spending money on DACs. It's like people don't mind pairing $400 headphones to budget $100 dacs but pairing $400 dollar DACs to mid-fi cans is seen as ridiculous? After hearing what good sounding DACs can do for your musical enjoyment it's hard to go back. I have no problem with someone saying Bifrost Uber is the minimum required for me to properly enjoy the Vali.
> 
> People are so ready to stretch their budget and spend big money on cans and sometimes amps but dacs get no love. If your source isn't all that great, what's the point of amplifying that source and sending the signal along to a transducer stuck to your ears? You buy amps and headphones to better hear your source basically.


 

 Good point. I will be testing the Vali w/ the hd800s (anax 2.0) using multiple sources: nfb-10es2 (line-out/pre-out), uha-6s mk ii (dac), hifimediy dac, and dx50 to hear the differences between the dacs and the scalability of the Vali.


----------



## kstuart

ninjames said:


> Yeah ... finding it hard to take this rec from Purrin seriously after saying anything less than the upgraded Bifrost would be keeping the Vali 50 percent under its potential. It's hyperbole like that which this hobby of our's doesn't need! I'm going to get the Vali, but those impressions are basically worthless after that!


 
 If this were a video/TV quality discussion, then we could put two different images in the Forum and circle the difference - it is much harder to do with sound, but I will try:
  
 If you can imagine a recording that has:
  
_Guitar strum and then decay of that sound with room reflections_
  
 With that less expensive DAC, it only has:
  
_Guitar strum and short blurry version of the decay_
  
 and then you are only hearing what Purrin is calling "50%".
  
 Here is the tricky part:
  
 If you hear the same song - and its a great song - on a cheap car radio - you still hear the guitar (and no decay at all) and you still love listening to the song.   And this is where most people are - using iPods with $5 earbuds.
  
 So, music and audio are two different things.


----------



## ninjames

kstuart said:


> This is one of those things where you can put two different images in a Forum and circle the difference, but it is much harder to do with sound.
> 
> If you can imagine recording has:
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not sure if you're trying to honestly explain to me how audio works, but I'm not new to this. My only issue is with "50%" What you have described is not half of the sound, and the difference can not be 50%, unless this is the very first amp to directly influence its DAC to this extent in the history of our hobby. Like I said -- it's hyperbole we don't need, that "50%" It's misleading and that's why the barrier for entry into our hobby can be confusing for many.


----------



## Barry S

purrin said:


> Yup. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but I enjoy the Vali more than the Mjolnir, at least with the Abyss. The Vali's shortcomings in bass control and overall precision are noted, but the Vali's sweeter sound, better ability to extract the softest sounds, faster more authoritative ability to make tiny changes in volume more than make up for those shortcomings.




I enjoy the Vali for its sweet signature with the LCD-X, but miss the detail, air, and soundstage of the Mjolnir. If Schiit could combine the best character of each, I'd jump on that. A tube Mjolnir? Probably not. I agree with you that the Lyr is due for an update, but maybe we have to wait for the tube statement amp. Until then, I'm happy enough switching between the Vali and the Mjolnir. Recording a little murky and congested?--Mjolnir cleans it up nicely. Clean recording with less layering and complexity--the extra harmonics of the Vali fatten up the sound. Does anyone else think the Vali adds a touch of reverb?


----------



## sfwalcer

^ WAIT WAIT WAIT!!! So my cheapo $15 ELE DAC ain't gonna fly so well with this Vali??? LMAO
  
 Buys budget-fi king Vali to save money on $$$$ amps, but spends another $400 on some Biofrostie DAC to milk the other 50% of that vali goodness. Sounds like sound logic to me.


----------



## FraGGleR

ninjames said:


> I'm not sure if you're trying to honestly explain to me how audio works, but I'm not new to this. My only issue is with "50%" What you have described is not half of the sound, and the difference can not be 50%, unless this is the very first amp to directly influence its DAC to this extent in the history of our hobby. Like I said -- it's hyperbole we don't need, that "50%" It's misleading and that's why the barrier for entry into our hobby can be confusing for many.


 
 It's a subjective value statement made by a guy who has several $K in DACs and has extensively tested many many more.  You can't really say it is hyperbole if he honestly believes, based on his experience if you are only hearing 50% of what the Vali can do unless you hit a certain level of quality in a DAC.  But that also doesn't mean that if all you can do is have a Modi with your Vali that your setup won't sound good.  This hobby is confusing because it is so personal.  Purrin's recommendations are no more confusing or misleading than people who claim there are no differences in DACs, amps, etc. and that ODAC/O2 is all you will ever need.


----------



## ninjames

fraggler said:


> It's a subjective value statement made by a guy who has several $K in DACs and has extensively tested many many more.  You can't really say it is hyperbole if he honestly believes, based on his experience if you are only hearing 50% of what the Vali can do unless you hit a certain level of quality in a DAC.  But that also doesn't mean that if all you can do is have a Modi with your Vali that your setup won't sound good.  This hobby is confusing because it is so personal.  Purrin's recommendations are no more confusing or misleading than people who claim there are no differences in DACs, amps, etc. and that ODAC/O2 is all you will ever need.


 
 50%. Seriously.
  
 That's all I'm gonna say now. This argument obviously won't go anywhere at this point so to spare this thread and all of you excited for your Vali, we'll just kill it.
  
 I'm really conflicted with the Vali. I'm getting it for sure ... but I have to buy a gaming PC. And I have a perfectly acceptable setup without the Vali so the PC is more needed ... but it's so pretty and I sol my favorite tube amp last year :[


----------



## FraGGleR

Oh, and I have put about 8 hours of burn in on the Vali.  So far, the bass is much stronger than on my HifiM8 (with no EQ).  Not precise, but not boomy.  I enjoy it very much with my HD800s.  Can't really hear any background hiss with my D2000s.  Microphonic ringing dies out within 30sec of turning on and only crops up with sharp bumps to the unit (I have the rubber feet installed) but dies down within a couple seconds.  It has a very enjoyable sound and plenty of power for the HD800s.  Easily worth the $120 compared to the amps I have and have had.  As it continues to burn in and I get more of a chance to really dig into the sound, I will update.


----------



## painted klown

Has anyone compared the Vali to a Little Dot MKIII?
  
 Sorry if this has already been asked, but this thread moves rather quickly, and it's difficult to try to weed out a single post that may not be there.


----------



## MattTCG

I will say that Purrin's claims here are suspect IMO with no disrespect intended at all. Vali better than the lyr, mojo...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Competes with amps at 10x the cost...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Maybe that the answer is simple. The claims are true for him. He enjoys the dac just as much as he says, which is certainly true. But, does it mean that the vali is better than the lyr, mojo and competes with $1k amps for a majority of others? My guess is not likely. 
  
 I'll certainly report my findings this week.


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow! Really looking forward to my Vali arriving and pairing with the HD800.  I'm not sure what to expect but praises have been anywhere from going to super. It will be interesting to compare side by side with the WA7.  On another note, been contemplating getting an Uber Bifrost again.  There black seems uber sexy but everything I have is silver.
  
 Quote:


purrin said:


> Depends upon the headphone used. But with the headphones I listed above or with an HD800, a resounding yes. Lyr is notably warm sounding and has better macro-dynamics (bass impact and slam, although Vali is no slouch). Vali is more neutral and reproduces more micro-dynamics and micro-detail than Lyr. Vali is more lively sounding and detailed. Vali wins for me.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I don't have a LD 3 but have a IVse and intial impressions (50hrs+) I think I prefer the Vali. [IVse has a very wide range of premium tubes I can use].


----------



## FraGGleR

matttcg said:


> I will say that Purrin's claims here are suspect IMO with no disrespect intended at all. Vali better than the lyr, mojo...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 He hasn't said the Vali is outright better.  He says he prefers it to those amps, and gives examples of what it does better and what the other amps do better.  Not sure why people are so up at arms about him stating his preferences.  Some other posters have corroborated what he posted and some have posted opposing views.  
  
 The crazy thing is that the people who haven't heard the Vali yet are the ones calling him a fraud.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

+1


----------



## painted klown

nic rhodes said:


> I don't have a LD 3 but have a IVse and intial impressions (50hrs+) I think I prefer the Vali. [IVse has a very wide range of premium tubes I can use].


 
 Thank you for the input.
  
 Can you please elaborate on the differences between these two amps?
  
 I own neither one (I currently have no HP amp) but was seriously looking at one of the Little Dot offerings to get a tube amp on the cheap.
  
 Since tube rolling can be costly (therefore making it something I would end up doing very little anyway), I figured I would see how this little amp compares.
  
 Save $$$ and get a taste of tube flavor. I have never really had the opportunity to listen to any tube playback gear, so I am always wanting to try some. With the low cost of entry for the Vali, it's almost worth taking a chance on one "just to do it". However, if I would be better off skipping it and moving to a Little Dot, then I would rather save the time/money of buying multiple amps. Hope that reasoning makes sense.


----------



## MattTCG

fraggler said:


> He hasn't said the Vali is outright better.  He says he prefers it to those amps, and gives examples of what it does better and what the other amps do better.  Not sure why people are so up at arms about him stating his preferences.  Some other posters have corroborated what he posted and some have posted opposing views.
> 
> The crazy thing is that the people who haven't heard the Vali yet are the ones calling him a fraud.


 
  
 What's even more amazing is the you'd add the word fraud to my post which is ironically fraudulent on your part. I have nothing but respect for Purrin which I stated in my post. Uncool...very. 
  
 I do in fact find it suspect that this amp can compete and quality tried and true amps costing 4-10x times as much. If in fact it does compete with those amps that have been mentioned, I would think that schiit would charge 4-10x the price for it. Do I question the claims being made...absolutely. Lot's of gear around here gets overhyped. Call it flavor of the month syndrome or what have you. 
  
 I'll have mine in a few days and will formulate and share my own opinions. If Purrin's claims are on the money, I'll be happy to say so.


----------



## kstuart

> Since tube rolling can be costly (therefore making it something I would end up doing very little anyway), I figured I would see how this little amp compares.


 
 I have spent more on tubes for my Bellari hybrid than on the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I did that because I have never done the tube rolling thing, and the Bellari has one tube instead of two, so it was easy to get single tubes for cheap (which usually means $30-$40).  I enjoyed the whole journey back to 1961 - sort of like watching MadMen.
  
 But, most tube amps use more than one tube, so the whole experience can be quite costly.
  
 Since the Vali tube is hard-wired, that automatically makes it the cheapest tube amp.


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *MattTCG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I do in fact find it suspect that this amp can compete and quality tried and true amps costing 4-10x times as much. If in fact it does compete with those amps that have been mentioned, I would think that schiit would charge 4-10x the price for it. Do I question the claims being made...absolutely. Lot's of gear around here gets overhyped. Call it flavor of the month syndrome or what have you.


 
 I think these things end up being different for head-fi fanatics who have 5 DACs, 8 amps and 12 headphones, as compared to the guy who wants to find just one DAC, one amp and one headphones.
  
 The Vali has some things it does very well and some things it can't do as well as more expensive amps (such as my Kenwood or your Pioneer).
  
 As you surmise, the latter is why it is $119, rather than $419.


----------



## eke2k6

kstuart said:


> As you surmise, the latter is why it is $119, rather than $419.


 
  
 Or maybe Schiit is just charging the cost of materials, plus a set profit margin?


----------



## FraGGleR

matttcg said:


> What's even more amazing is the you'd add the word fraud to my post which is ironically fraudulent on your part. I have nothing but respect for Purrin which I stated in my post. Uncool...very.
> 
> I do in fact find it suspect that this amp can compete and quality tried and true amps costing 4-10x times as much. If in fact it does compete with those amps that have been mentioned, I would think that schiit would charge 4-10x the price for it. Do I question the claims being made...absolutely. Lot's of gear around here gets overhyped. Call it flavor of the month syndrome or what have you.
> 
> I'll have mine in a few days and will formulate and share my own opinions. If Purrin's claims are on the money, I'll be happy to say so.


 
 You aren't the only one questioning him or his motives, just the last one to post and the one I quoted.  Suspect is a negative word that implies some sort of falsehood, which is similar to fraud.  Fraud may be stronger, but it was used intentionally to point out the ridiculousness of how strong the negative reactions are to what Purrin and others have stated in favor of the amp.  If I have learned anything in this hobby, it is that the price or topology of a device doesn't always equate to its absolute performance or its relative value.  I am less defending Purrin and more defending the notion that some things truly can punch several times above its weight (as this definitely does) without people who say so being called full of BS (my words not anyone else's) until proven otherwise.


----------



## cebuboy

Can anybody compare the Modi/Vali to the Alo Audio Pan Am with the stock tubes of course? I know its not the same class, just want to know peoples impressions.


----------



## jbarrentine

Why are people fighting over 'motives' and other weird crap on an audio forum? 
  
 The question is does this little amp make people happy for $120 and the consensus so far is yes. Leave it at that.


----------



## elwappo99

fraggler said:


> He hasn't said the Vali is outright better.  He says he prefers it to those amps, and gives examples of what it does better and what the other amps do better.  Not sure why people are so up at arms about him stating his preferences.  Some other posters have corroborated what he posted and some have posted opposing views.
> 
> The crazy thing is that the people who haven't heard the Vali yet are the ones calling him a fraud.


 
  
 Unfortunately I think people got stuck when Purrin said he prefers it to the Mjolnir or when he referenced someone preferring it to amplifiers under $1k. They immediately took it to mean "completely superior". If you're buying this amplifier expecting the latter you may be disappointed. I read the reviews carefully and had a good idea of the pros and cons and was pleasantly happy with this amp so far. I wish the noise floor was just a tad lower because it's really a good mix with my Sony SA5000 on a quick listen.
  
 With that said, I think I may end up leaving the volume control on this thing alone and just having a SS preamp running to it. Would be nice to have one with a similar form factor.


----------



## Eric_C

Purrin's comments about the Bifrost make me sad. So, my iPod and PC sound card are holding back the Vali by a wide margin? =(


----------



## elwappo99

eric_c said:


> Purrin's comments about the Bifrost make me sad. So, my iPod and PC sound card are holding back the Vali by a wide margin? =(


 
  
 I think you should look at those comments the other way around. If you later on want to get a better sound you can always upgrade your DAC/source and you wouldn't find the Vali is limiting the sound you'll get.


----------



## Eric_C

elwappo99 said:


> I think you should look at those comments the other way around. If you later on want to get a better sound you can always upgrade your DAC/source and you wouldn't find the Vali is limiting the sound you'll get.




Haha, thanks, that's a great way to look at it.


----------



## tdockweiler

Do you guys think this really has any warmth at all? Really when I listen to it it reminds me more of the O2 than anything else in it's price range. Isn't that absolutely nuts? The mids sound natural and not thick/thin or whatever to me.
 Now, I love the sound so far! It's clear and natural sounding. It's like it changes it's sound depending on the track. I like how music that's bright/harsh is not touched (for me).
 Sort of chameleon like, same as my other amp. Huh? I'm trying hard to pick out any emphasis coming from the amp, but having trouble. The bass seems well controlled on my open headphones, but less so on my 38ohm DJ100.
  
 I have no clue how one could dislike the O2 and like the Vali. The Vali sounds dead accurate to me. I'm using it with a CS4398 DAC, which is definitely not warm.
  
 Everytime I play my tracks my reaction is like "Yep, that's exactly how it's supposed to sound". Right now i'm using it with the modded Q701 and loving it.
  
 I'm going to start calling it the O2 KILLER just to annoy people!! Ok, I already had one but this is another!
  
 Well, sorry I know Vali and O2 probably shouldn't be used in the same sentence, but I had to do it.
  
 BTW even the E9 sounded warmer to me, but more colored. For me the Vali is sort of like an O2 that's slightly more natural sounding and just as clear. WEIRD. Not possible.
  
 Also..if you're describing the sound of your new Vali make sure you're not accidentally describing your DAC's sound signature or recordings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's actually easier than you think.
  
 There is really a tube in there right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it went on vacation.
  
 So IMO this is the best Schiit amp i've heard so far. Oh and on day two it's sound didn't change! Still sounds good. Mine sounded fine out of the box. No point in me trying to burn it it.
  
 Maybe i'll be off the general consensus, but if you want to add something to your headphone's natural sound signature I don't think this will work for you (I like that).
  
 I'd be interesting in knowing what other amps this sounds similar to. To my ears it's very close in sound to the O2, Micro Amp. My Magni had some similarities, but that's brighter/thinner.
  
 FYI the Asgard 1/2 was definitely warmer to me. I bet i'd like that with a Beyerdynamic headphone.


----------



## BournePerfect

The amount of failed reading comprehension in this thread, coupled with misdirected malice at somebody's honest opinion-is astounding. Even for a Schiit thread. Even the Fiio and O2 crowds are enjoying the popcorn I bet.
  
 That said, I'm withholding most of my opinions on the Vali until it reaches the recommended..._calm down kids_...burn in time. I am enjoying it thus far with my DP-1/HD800-and it's offering a nice alternative sound to the DP-1's built in headamp, which I love, and feel gets unwarranted flak. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## ethan7000

m-13 said:


> Not sure why people hate spending money on DACs. It's like people don't mind pairing $400 headphones to budget $100 dacs but pairing $400 dollar DACs to mid-fi cans is seen as ridiculous? After hearing what good sounding DACs can do for your musical enjoyment it's hard to go back. I have no problem with someone saying Bifrost Uber is the minimum required for me to properly enjoy the Vali.
> 
> People are so ready to stretch their budget and spend big money on cans and sometimes amps but dacs get no love. If your source isn't all that great, what's the point of amplifying that source and sending the signal along to a transducer stuck to your ears? You buy amps and headphones to better hear your source basically.



Well for me I'm skeptical because I listened to a $13,000 DAC in a store (through more expensive speakers) and just wasn't very impressed. Also skeptical because DACs in the $100 range already have specs beyond human hearing (like the actual DAC chip being used). So I think it's things going on in the electronics besides just the digital to analog conversion. I've owned and heard the difference between a Xonar DGX and a Xonar DX and it was significant. But I've never had a Bifrost to A/B with. I'd like to try it someday.


----------



## CEE TEE

It is better to plug everything into the Vali before turning it on and I try to let it settle a bit beforehand. If you have any persistent ringing during operation, simply turn it off for a little bit and turn it back on. Even if the amp does not completely cool down, this really helps. Was also surprised by the amount of microphonics at first, but will manage it *because $120 is killer for this little amp.*
  
 Right now I have the PWD (FW 243) feeding the Vali and it sounds superb- with a very nice tonal balance and presentation. The Vali handles the top end beautifully with HD800 (modded). The bit of air lets you know it is there but is not overly grainy or too strident. Nice and smooth all the way up to that "bit of air" in the treble. My sibilance test tracks are right on the edge but fine. (Hard to pull off this kind of balance even if I am sitting there rolling tubes in much more expensive amps.)  Speed/tight instrument separation would probably be the easiest thing to try and criticize about this amp if you like a very fast/dry/analytical presentation. The amp has some slight sweetness on decay...but hits the detail mark nicely for me too.
  
 Though less bass/bass kick than the Zana, the Zana is a bit "splashier" up top as well...Vali is slightly smoother in the treble. So the Vali is a touch more forgiving than the Zana (little "aggressive" in the treble at times) and BA (because of the resolution) but without seeming like it is lacking too much in resolution.  Although not quite as rich/expansive as the Zana or as resolving/fast as the BA, the Vali is wonderfully "wet/rich", expansive, and extended. With electronic music there is definitely plenty of impact and resolution without any digititus. Will have to compare "headstage" presentation against the Magni later, the Vali was going up against two EC amps known for their expansive headstages and it held up incredibly well. I really enjoy this little amp and recommend it. _Amazing stuff._


----------



## purrin

Perhaps 50% may have been an exaggeration. Maybe 63%. You guys have to remember that at this point in the hobby, where I've pretty much owned, heard, and measured everything in terms of amps and headphones, I'm much more into DACs now. I've had a chance to own or borrow for extended periods up to two dozen DACs and related gizmos (there's probably a lot more I've forgotten about and or just didn't want to say anything because it sucked so badly) ranging in price from $99 to $10,000.

 In actuality, the differences between DACs is small. Extremely small to the uninitiated. But DACs are a make or break thing for me. I'm in-between "uber" amps right now having sold my ECBA and returned the DIY T2 (originally on 99 year lease). While I truly did almost pee in my pants and exclaimed "Holy Schiit, it's better than the Lyr" (referring to the Lyr with boring sounding stock tubes) upon my first listen, I came to appreciate the Vali even more because it was _the _amp currently in the house which let me discern the individual qualities of the DACs I had on hand including: 2x $2k+ DACs, an DIY NOS DAC, a bluetooth DAC, a cheapy combo DAC, Gungnir, and in their specific configurations: coax, USB, USB/i2s converters, custom power supplies, etc. The fact that the Vali was semi-portable was plus since most of these DACs along with their setups are scattered about the house.
  
 Is the Vali the last word and what I would prefer to use for my DAC evaluations (which are always ongoing)? No. But it serves a purpose while I am waiting for my uber amp. And even after the uber amp is delivered, I know I'll have something cheap that kicks well above its weight class as a bedside rig.
  
 And by the way, very little gear I've heard "kicks well above its weight class". That term is way overused and should be applied to or only occur no more than once a year on average. I certainly haven't found a DAC which I would give that moniker, although the Bifrost uber may be a candidate (I have not evaluated it enough to feel comfortable saying that.) In terms of headphones, practically everything is a rip-off, although I applaud the efforts of Mr. Speakers and HiFiMan. In terms of other amps, maybe the ECS7 gets the nod for "kicks well above its weight class."


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> *I came to appreciate the Vali even more because it was the amp currently in the house which let me discern the individual qualities of the DACs I had on hand including: 2x $2k+ DACs, an DIY NOS DAC, a bluetooth DAC, a cheapy combo DAC, Gungnir, and in their specific configurations: *coax, USB, USB/i2s converters, custom power supplies, etc. The fact that the Vali was semi-portable was plus since most of these DACs along with their setups are scattered about the house.
> 
> Is the Vali the last word and what I would prefer to use for my DAC evaluations (which are always ongoing)? No. But it serves a purpose while I am waiting for my uber amp. And even after the uber amp is delivered, I know I'll have something cheap that kicks well above its weight class as a bedside rig.
> 
> And by the way, very little gear I've heard "kicks well above its weight class". That term is way overused and should be applied to or only occur no more than once a year on average. I certainly haven't found a DAC which I would give that moniker, although the Bifrost uber may be a candidate (I have not evaluated it enough to feel comfortable saying that.) In terms of headphones, practically everything is a rip-off, although I applaud the efforts of Mr. Speakers and HiFiMan. In terms of amps, maybe the ECS7 gets the nod for "kicks well above its weight class."


 
  
 So are you saying the Vali is 99.9% transparent to your ears? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That's what it sounds like. I wanted to be the first but couldn't do it. People already think i'm nutty enough sometimes. I love it when I can connect lots of random junk to my amps and hear all the differences easily. When I had the E9 I couldn't even tell the difference between the HRT MSII and ODAC. Not even kidding! On my other amp it's stupid easy and I don't have golden ears.
  
 I think people forgot here that Purrin is using a $12,000 headphone and not a Q701. That's pretty important.
  
 On my Q701 and HD-650 the difference between my DACs is so slight. When I tried the T90 it magically became an even bigger difference but still not that large.


----------



## NinjaHamster

tdockweiler said:


> I think people forgot here that Purrin is using a $12,000 headphone and not a Q701. That's pretty important.


 
 Oh God.  Those "Kalamazoo" customs and exchange rates will get you every time ... in all fairness, it is usually the cost of shipping to a fantasy destination which does it ...


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> When I had the E9 I couldn't even tell the difference between the HRT MSII and ODAC.


 
  
 Neither would I with the E9. Even with my most resolvlng DAC fed though an E9, I wouldn't be able to hear a difference. The E9 a piece of junk using the most horrid chip amp ever made for headphones: the TPA6120. I have aptly described it as the "*sucks all life and soul from music*" chip (Can someone who speaks German make one of those fancy compound German phrases for me?) All devices with the TPA6120 inside should be labelled on the outside with a sticker: "WARNING: EXTREME FAIL"
  


tdockweiler said:


> On my Q701 and HD-650 the difference between my DACs is so slight. When I tried the T90 it magically became an even bigger difference but still not that large.


 
  
 You just gotta stop t-docking around side-grading among the POS / crappy DACs and amps. The HD-650 is very resolving (much more than most people realize), albeit a bit slow sounding in the bass.
  


tdockweiler said:


> So are you saying the Vali is 99.9% transparent to your ears?


 
  
 "Is the Vali the last word and what I would prefer to use for my DAC evaluations (which are always ongoing)? No. But it serves a purpose while I am waiting for my uber amp."  _<--- copied from the very post you quoted me from._


----------



## painted klown

To avoid arguing about weather or not the Vali needs Summit-FI DACs in front of it, would it be easier to simply say that it "scales up" well when better electronics are placed in front of it?
  
 Not trying to be a wise guy, just seeing if that is the general consensus with this amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To Purrin: Have you had the opportunity to audition either the Emotiva XDA-2 or the Emotiva DC-1? I am about to pull the trigger on the DC-1 (on sale for $499 right now) as a low cost way to have a DAC and a HP amp in one. After that, I plan to get a pair of Senn HD-650, and begin to look seriously at different HP amplifiers.
  
 EDIT: Currently have 3 pairs of easy to drive 'phones (Skullcandy Aviators, Grado SR80i, and Senn HD-598) and no DAC. Using laptop built in sound card, and Rockboxed 30 gb 5th gen ipod video ATM.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

thegunner100 said:


> Good point. I will be testing the Vali w/ the hd800s (anax 2.0) using multiple sources: nfb-10es2 (line-out/pre-out), uha-6s mk ii (dac), hifimediy dac, and dx50 to hear the differences between the dacs and the scalability of the Vali.




If the Vali sounds great with the hifimediy sabre (async version?), that's a $180 rig rockin.


----------



## thegunner100

soundsgoodtome said:


> If the Vali sounds great with the hifimediy sabre (async version?), that's a $180 rig rockin.


 

 It's the older non-async version. I don't expect the hifimediy to really do the Vali any justice, but it's worth a try. To me, the line-out on my dx50 sounds better than the hifimediy.


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> Neither would I with the E9. That's a piece of junk using the most horrid amp chip ever made for headphones: the TPA6120. I have aptly described it as "*sucks all life and soul from music*" (Can someone who speaks German make one of those fancy compound German phrases for me?)
> 
> 
> You just gotta stop t-docking around with POS / crappy DACs and amps. *The HD-650 is very resolving*, albeit a bit slow sounding in the bass.


 
  
 Yes, I know this and have heard changes in it with every single amp and DAC. I actually think it's more resolving than the Q701, but that's not hard.
 I started with the Asgard 1 back in 2009 I think and felt it was holding it back and upgraded to the Headroom Micro which was way better and even more transparent.
 Unlike most other amps that one sounds equally good with everything. No need for such synergy nonsense.
  
 If my amp is a POS you might as well say that about the Vali too because they sound basically the same (ie Transparent).
 I don't even have a clue how you can be raving about the Vali and not like the O2. It's really bizarre.
  
 BTW for future reference I don't listen to music for 5 hours a day or work in a recording studio. Maybe then I would buy a $500 DAC that's probably 1% better than what I currently have.
 Maybe i'll try the Bifrost and eat my words. My setup is actually overkill for how little I listen to music. Nothing new there.


----------



## purrin

painted klown said:


> To avoid arguing about weather or not the Vali needs Summit-FI DACs in front of it, would it be easier to simply say that it "scales up" well when better electronics are placed in front of it?


 
  
 You have to remember that I simply recommended the modestly priced Bifrost-Uber to start! I don't know how it got to Summit-Fi DACs.
  


painted klown said:


> To Purrin: Have you had the opportunity to audition either the Emotiva XDA-2 or the Emotiva DC-1? I am about to pull the trigger on the DC-1 (on sale for $499 right now) as a low cost way to have a DAC and a HP amp in one. After that, I plan to get a pair of Senn HD-650, and begin to look seriously at different HP amplifiers.


 
  
 Curious about the Emotiva stuff myself but haven't been able to get my hands on one. For the DC-1 as a headamp, one thing scares me away: the BUF634 buffer chips.


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> I don't even have a clue how you can be raving about the Vali and not like the O2. It's really bizarre.


 
  
 The O2 is pretty good from my main PC's mobo USB. It sucks ass (closed in, weak and mushy bass) from my Sony VAIO laptop (where I would more likely be using it from). Not a big fan of USB powered DACs in general. They are severely handicapped. I'm just happy if USB DACs can make sound.
  
 Not bizarre regarding your noted lack of differences between HR Microamp and Vali. It's like letting your grandma drive through the Streets of Willow racetrack down the street. It ain't gonna matter much if she's in an FR-S or Honda Accord.


----------



## MickeyVee

Don't want to go too OT but if the Vali can discern the difference between DACs, I'm good with that. With my HD800, I certainly can discern the difference between DACs even when I was using the Lyr.  I'm a big fan of the Bifrost and have regretted selling it for a simpler solution, the WA7.  The huge soundstage became much smaller and while the WA7 DAC is good, the Bifrost is worth the price of admission.  Given that, I'm ordering a new one.
 I'm looking for a good second system and the Vali seems to fit the bill from what I've read so far.  The final judgement will be made after some extensive listening.  I don't buy into hype and carefully consider what I read and who authored it.  It's just good sharing of information and I appreciate the opinions of those that have actually experienced different gear.  This thread was enough to peak my interest in the Vali (also following a few other amp threads) and that's all I expect from Head-Fi.  
 Can't wait to get mine in.. probably in the next day or two.
 Happy listening!
  
 Quote:


tdockweiler said:


> On my Q701 and HD-650 the difference between my DACs is so slight. When I tried the T90 it magically became an even bigger difference but still not that large.


----------



## jbarrentine

purrin said:


> You just gotta stop t-docking around side-grading among the POS / crappy DACs and amps.


 
  
 So, in your estimation, what's the go to dac $350 and under to couple with the Vali? Many of us just don't have 4 or 5 grand or whatever to put into a dac. If the non-crap is above that level, I'm washed out.


----------



## jexby

matttcg said:


> It's more about the amps ability to use power to to tap into the hp and give it what it needs to sound it's best.
> 
> There are a couple of good examples here. The lyr is one. It does power with refinement. But it never overpowers on hp's that it is rated for. The hd650 has good scale and the lyr taps into what it takes to sound really really nice. There are dynamics brought out by the lyr that I have not experienced with other amps, but it can also bring out delicate abilities that wow me also.
> 
> I have never, I repeat never, heard what the he-4 really sounds like until the day that I plugged it into the Pioneer sx1280. It was shocking. The bass "came alive" with weight and texture and just amazed me. Many of these old receivers use the same output stage for the hp out as they do for speakers...no need for speakers taps to get a sense of what they can do.


 
  
 First, thanks for your attempt to quantify your findings.
  
  
 Second, am still mystified by terms like "tap into" ??
 like the headphones mysteryiously asks for nano-seconds of increased voltages?   
 the amp somehow knows to deliver "more mW power" despite the volume knob?
  
 there must be some other (electrical?) element I am missing here....


----------



## purrin

jbarrentine said:


> So, in your estimation, what's the go to dac $350 and under to couple with the Vali? Many of us just don't have 4 or 5 grand or whatever to put into a dac. If the non-crap is above that level, I'm washed out.


 
  
 Can you swing $419? Beef-roast with the Uber Analog upgrade (which is huge).


----------



## MattTCG

please explain why anyone would choose USB over the optical connection. It's more expensive and schiit has always recommended Optical over usb for best sound quality. also much less expensive. A


----------



## M-13

matttcg said:


> please explain why anyone would choose USB over the optical connection. It's more expensive and schiit has always recommended Optical over usb for best sound quality. also much less expensive. A


 

 Aren't the new gen 2 usb boards better now?


----------



## TMRaven

If you have an imac the usb is less of a hassle to switch via sound options than having to reach behind your computer every time you want to change to computer speakers and back.
  
 I've A/B'd the optical and usb of the bifrost (very very little) but I couldn't find a difference in sq.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Go to dac around $400 ... probably the Rega P1 ... sorry, couldn't resist ...


----------



## paradoxper

tmraven said:


> I've A/B'd the optical and usb of the bifrost (very very little) but I couldn't find a difference in sq.


 
 Yup. Bifrost/Gungnir. Though USB will always help with resale value.


----------



## M-13

ethan7000 said:


> Well for me I'm skeptical because I listened to a $13,000 DAC in a store (through more expensive speakers) and just wasn't very impressed. Also skeptical because DACs in the $100 range already have specs beyond human hearing (like the actual DAC chip being used). So I think it's things going on in the electronics besides just the digital to analog conversion. I've owned and heard the difference between a Xonar DGX and a Xonar DX and it was significant. But I've never had a Bifrost to A/B with. I'd like to try it someday.


 

 Honestly? I'm right there with you man. When I was fairly new to this whole dac thing. I was loudly telling people on this forum that my Fiio E17 dac section sounds exactly the same as a DACport LX after A/B'ing them back and forth a few times on various songs. I did my evaluation over 2 evenings and sent the DacPort LX back to Mike at Centrance. Happy and smug about my scientific/rational understanding of dac design princples.
  
 Now, I consider what I was doing and saying at the time total nonsense foolishness. I didn't have the experience to evaluate dacs. I didn't know what I was looking for. Once I started living with the Bifrost for a few weeks I was able to finally hear what a dac was supposed to do. Then I was hooked, I could hear a huge difference between Fiio products and the Bifrost on every song. Once I got the Concero it was another leap over the Bifrost and I haven't looked back. Once you have the experience to evaluate after living with some good dacs it gets easier and more readily apparent. I know it sounds strange but there it is.
  
 My suggestion would be for you to live with a nice dac for a few weeks (from a place with a no hassle return policy). If after 2 or 3 weeks you think it makes no difference send it back and consider yourself very lucky becasue you will not have to spend money. But I'm willing to bet you do hear something and then you'll have a realization moment, like a light bulb turning on in your head. LOL.


----------



## ethan7000

m-13 said:


> Honestly? I'm right there with you man. When I was fairly new to this whole dac thing. I was loudly telling people on this forum that my Fiio E17 dac section sounds exactly the same as a DACport LX after A/B'ing them back and forth a few times on various songs. I did my evaluation over 2 evenings and sent the DacPort LX back to Mike at Centrance. Happy and smug about my scientific/rational understanding of dac design princples.
> 
> Now, I consider what I was doing and saying at the time total nonsense foolishness. I didn't have the experience to evaluate dacs. I didn't know what I was looking for. Once I started living with the Bifrost for a few weeks I was able to finally hear what a dac was supposed to do. Then I was hooked, I could hear a huge difference between Fiio products and the Bifrost on every song. Once I got the Concero it was another leap over the Bifrost and I haven't looked back. Once you have the experience to evaluate after living with some good dacs it gets easier and more readily apparent. I know it sounds strange but there it is.
> 
> My suggestion would be for you to live with a nice dac for a few weeks (from a place with a no hassle return policy). If after 2 or 3 weeks you think it makes no difference send it back and consider yourself very lucky becasue you will not have to spend money. But I'm willing to bet you do hear something and then you'll have a realization moment, like a light bulb turning on in your head. LOL.



Very well could be. I think I partially don't even want to try it for fear of then needing another piece of equipment :/


----------



## NinjaHamster

I do agree with this, but you have raised a pertinent point ... the differences between GOOD DACS (of any price) are often not huge ... you won't generally find them in a 30 minute audition.  Which does beg a further question ... is it worth it ?  I think the differences between lower-priced amps are more pertinent and obvious.  Personally, I'd be going for an Amp change or a headphone change at most levels ... once you have them sorted (and have a fair bit more money) the DAC'S start to make a huge influence.  But for me, and I suspect most people, despite agreeing largely with the logic of the Linn (source first) philosophy, in the real world, and at most people's budget, I'd still be saying spend 50% on the transducer, and divide the rest between the amp and the DAC ... even then, there can be no "set" prescription ... for instance, the $1000 Audeze LCD-2's with a Lyr (with $80 worth of tube upgrades) is a great "back-end", or you could get the Mjolnir ... I'd do that and get a good budget DAC whilst saving up, rather than the other way around ... then again, I wouldn't laugh at someone driving LCD-3's with a Vali.  Such a complex subject and so many roads to great sound !


----------



## M-13

ethan7000 said:


> Very well could be. I think I partially don't even want to try it for fear of then needing another piece of equipment :/


 

 You're a very wise man... LOL. It's so true... I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I had not demo'ed the SE530's back in 2006. That experience led me to this forum, and then the lurking began as I gathered info and started buying gear...
  
 I've tried to quit Head-Fi a few times in the past but can't seem to overcome the addiction.


----------



## cggkevin1976

USB has several advantages. For PC's USB is always possible. Optical is not. On Mac's I believe the optical out is limited to 96/24. I went with Schiits recommendation and
got my Bifrost without USB and got an M2 USB/spdif but now I'm thinking if getting the gen2 USB upgrade.


----------



## JeremyR

matttcg said:


> I do in fact find it suspect that this amp can compete and quality tried and true amps costing 4-10x times as much.


 
  
 If a consumer who knows exactly what those higher end amps sound like prefers this one, then by definition it competes. The only other option is he is just lying, and unless he is being paid to do so, I have no idea why anyone would suggest he is.


----------



## painted klown

m-13 said:


> Honestly? I'm right there with you man. When I was fairly new to this whole dac thing. I was loudly telling people on this forum that my Fiio E17 dac section sounds exactly the same as a DACport LX after A/B'ing them back and forth a few times on various songs. I did my evaluation over 2 evenings and sent the DacPort LX back to Mike at Centrance. Happy and smug about my scientific/rational understanding of dac design princples.
> 
> Now, I consider what I was doing and saying at the time total nonsense foolishness. I didn't have the experience to evaluate dacs. I didn't know what I was looking for. Once I started living with the Bifrost for a few weeks I was able to finally hear what a dac was supposed to do. Then I was hooked, I could hear a huge difference between Fiio products and the Bifrost on every song. Once I got the Concero it was another leap over the Bifrost and I haven't looked back. Once you have the experience to evaluate after living with some good dacs it gets easier and more readily apparent. I know it sounds strange but there it is.
> 
> My suggestion would be for you to live with a nice dac for a few weeks (from a place with a no hassle return policy). If after 2 or 3 weeks you think it makes no difference send it back and consider yourself very lucky becasue you will not have to spend money. But I'm willing to bet you do hear something and then you'll have a realization moment, like a light bulb turning on in your head. LOL.


 

 I agree with the fact that it can sometimes take extended listening to fully flesh out the differences in equipment that (theoretically) should sound the same (any measurable differences between the two should not be audible).
  
 IMO, the nuances, subtle sonic characteristics, and overall performance level of a given piece can be difficult to detect upon first (or second, or third) listen. I have found that continued listening with a wide variety of music (both reference quality recordings and terribly mastered modern discs) works best for me when evaluating new gear.
  
 I am speaking strictly about well designed electronic components, and not necessarily about speakers or headphones. Usually, they are sonically far enough apart that the differences are easily discernible.
  
 All of this is IMO and YMMV.


----------



## NinjaHamster

painted klown said:


> I am speaking strictly about well designed electronic components, and not necessarily about speakers or headphones. Usually, they are sonically far enough apart that the differences are easily discernible.


 
 I agree with you - but I would take out the "usually" in that equation ... There may be differences which are obviously discernible - definitely - but one should base their opinions (where possible) on extended listening - not a quick "back and forth" - often those "easily discernible" differences can dispose you to like something which longer-term listening proves to be a "flash and bang".  You are absolutely right in suggesting that speakers and headphones reveal more differences immediately ... it's just that these impressions may change over time ... actually, now that I look at it, I'm not really disagreeing with you at all ... I'm agreeing with you, and then adding an additional component which is worth considering.  I would not take "usually" out of the equation at all ... I would just add this addendum ...


----------



## paradoxper

purrin said:


> Sorry got confused between O2 and ODAC.


 
 How dare you.


----------



## NinjaHamster

purrin said:


> Sorry got confused between O2 and ODAC.


 
 Ah, well you know that this ... on this site anyway ... mitigates against anything you have previously said ...


----------



## elwappo99

tmraven said:


> I dunno just felt good.  I always hate people who post +1s with no text after so I figure I'd join in.


 
  
 Well in that respect I did get a chuckle, but I just meant for some people there's no point in discussing.


----------



## sfwalcer

purrin said:


> Perhaps 50% may have been an exaggeration. Maybe 63%. You guys have to remember that at this point in the hobby, where I've pretty much owned, heard, and measured everything in terms of amps and headphones, I'm much more into DACs now. I've had a chance to own or borrow for extended periods up to two dozen DACs and related gizmos (there's probably a lot more I've forgotten about and or just didn't want to say anything because it sucked so badly) ranging in price from $99 to $10,000.
> 
> In actuality, the differences between DACs is small. Extremely small to the uninitiated. But DACs are a make or break thing for me. I'm in-between "uber" amps right now having sold my ECBA and returned the DIY T2 (originally on 99 year lease). While I truly did almost pee in my pants and exclaimed "Holy Schiit, it's better than the Lyr" (referring to the Lyr with boring sounding stock tubes) upon my first listen, I came to appreciate the Vali even more because it was _the _amp currently in the house which let me discern the individual qualities of the DACs I had on hand including: 2x $2k+ DACs, an DIY NOS DAC, a bluetooth DAC, a cheapy combo DAC, Gungnir, and in their specific configurations: coax, USB, USB/i2s converters, custom power supplies, etc. The fact that the Vali was semi-portable was plus since most of these DACs along with their setups are scattered about the house.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +


tdockweiler said:


> So are you saying the Vali is 99.9% transparent to your ears?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ^ Says most headphones are a rip off then goes and buy an Abyss.


----------



## NinjaHamster

sfwalcer said:


> +
> ^ Says most headphones are a rip off then goes and buy an Abyss.


 
 Which cost $12,000 in Kamaloo ... wait, they ARE stereo ... maybe it's $6,000 per "ear-speaker" ...


----------



## JeremyR

m-13 said:


> You're a very wise man... LOL. It's so true... I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I had not demo'ed the SE530's back in 2006. That experience led me to this forum, and then the lurking began as I gathered info and started buying gear...
> 
> I've tried to quit Head-Fi a few times in the past but can't seem to overcome the addiction.


 
  
 I equate this to video. Remember when DVD's first came out? When you first saw a DVD, you could tell it was better then VHS, but it was not THAT much better. Then after watching DVD's for months, if you looked at a video on VHS, it looked like absolute crap. The difference was huge.
  
 Same thing happened when HD Video came out. When you first saw it, it was not a massive advantage over DVD. Once you got used to it, it became worlds better. Same thing is happening right now with 4K TV. Sure it looked a little better, but no big deal. I bet in a few years if you look at a 1080p TV, you're going to think it looks like crap.
  
  
 Right now I am in the VHS stage of the audio world. Maybe I should just stop here. Sometimes ignorance truly is bliss. I don't find myself enjoying movies any more today, then I did when all I had was a VCR. I might want to preserve that ignorance.


----------



## M-13

Just to be clear guys. Evaluating dacs comes more easily after you get used to a few nice quality dacs. Once you know what to look for and where it really doesn't take that long to hear a difference. Like 10 seconds of a passage of song that is super complex with lots of things happening will literally reveal almost everything about that dac. A lesser dac will smear the details and the attacks will sound blunted and messy at the end or the tonality will be off, bloated or recessed somewhere. There is also resolution, the ability to extract micro-details. etc. I mean seriously once you hear the difference it's startling and hard to go back to $100 dacs. The reason it takes so long to figure out the difference initally is just a lack of experience. Once you have the experience the differences are very in your face hard to miss even after just a few second of listening. It doesn't take weeks or months everytime you get a new dac. I'm just saying your very first one might take that long.
  
 And no need to jump into $10k territory. Just try the $600 Concero, or if you can swing a get a X-Sabre, DA8, Anedio D2. Or buy any of these used if you want them cheaper. They're all near $1000 or under. You can probably resell them at the exact price you bought them for. People spend $1000 on headphones all the time, LCD-2/T1/HD800, hell even the HD700 went for a $1000. Try a dac in that range if you already have a phone of this caliber and get ready to smile big and eat crow.


----------



## TMRaven

Man I dunno I tell you what's a drastic difference is going from Composite to S-video or component 480p.  That color bleed and dot crawl is so bad.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Or like those people who thought early 14 bit CD was better than Vinyl as it didn't crack or pop and the specs (channel separation, DR) were great and then ... Oh, wait ...


----------



## jbarrentine

painted klown said:


> IMO, the nuances, subtle sonic characteristics, and overall performance level of a given piece can be difficult to detect upon first (or second, or third) listen.


 
  
 If you have to sacrifice a chicken, go into a trance and communicate with the Old Ones to hear a difference, that's the same as there being no difference, because even IF some nuance exists, you won't hear it 99.9% of the time. 
  
 People spending that extra thousand dollars or whatever for that .1% really need to step back and take a self inventory imo.


----------



## M-13

jeremyr said:


> I equate this to video. Remember when DVD's first came out? When you first saw a DVD, you could tell it was better then VHS, but it was not THAT much better. Then after watching DVD's for months, if you looked at a video on VHS, it looked like absolute crap. The difference was huge.
> 
> Same thing happened when HD Video came out. When you first saw it, it was not a massive advantage over DVD. Once you got used to it, it became worlds better. Same thing is happening right now with 4K TV. Sure it looked a little better, but no big deal. I bet in a few years if you look at a 1080p TV, you're going to think it looks like crap.
> 
> ...


 

 This is a great analogy. I'm waiting for 8K TVs that are 3D without glasses and are curved like a movie theater screen so that the edges are equidistant from the center. Oh, and of course it must be 100 inches +. LOL.


----------



## JeremyR

m-13 said:


> This is a great analogy. I'm waiting for 8K TVs that are 3D without glasses and are curved like a movie theater screen so that the edges are equidistant from the center. Oh, and of course it must be 100 inches +. LOL.


 
  
 version 3 of this should do the trick 
  
 http://www.oculusvr.com/


----------



## paradoxper

jbarrentine said:


> If you have to sacrifice a chicken, go into a trance and communicate with the Old Ones to hear a difference, that's the same as there being no difference, because even IF some nuance exists, you won't hear it 99.9% of the time.
> 
> People spending that extra thousand dollars or whatever for that .1% really need to step back and take a self inventory imo.


 
 People should really stop judging other's. Whether or not a $1k+ DAC or uber amp is worth it, is up to the individual.
 What matters is what kind of enjoyment you get out of whatever it is you're into.
  
 The same should be said for telling people they need x to realize x potential. Ignorance is bliss, so let it be.
 Most of us do get curious enough to explore on our own as is. 
  
 As has been said before pricing is no indicator of performance, etc. And as long as you're enjoying yourself
 that's all that matters, be it with $100 gear, car radio, $1kgear or Beats.


----------



## M-13

Just an observation from spending some time on Head-Fi...
  
 It seems like this "dacs don't make much of a difference" *theme *always repeats itself in threads that are budget item oriented.
  
 For example, this line of argument flies well in the HE-400 thread and is generally well received by many there; but try saying the same thing in the HE-6 or HD800 thread and people will smack you around and call you a fool. I think the difference is that people on these budget threads don't have a lot of money and spend a majority of their money on cans and perhaps even a semi-decent amp like the O2 or Asgard/Magni. This leaves them with just a soundcard or a budget dac and they have to convince themselves expensive dacs don't makea difference. Their ears are open to any and all arguments that dacs are unimportant.
  
 I've never seen a post where some guy says, "Hey guys so I've been living with this $1000 dac for a few weeks now and I hear no difference from my ODAC, so I'm gong to send it back. Looks like you guys were wrong so F U."
  
 It's always more like: "I tried some $10,000,000 dac briefly at a audio shop or a meet and I heard no difference." or "Science tells me there is no difference humans can hear."
  
 This pattern seems to rehash itself on a lot of threads on Head-Fi. LOL.
  
 When you guys on college budgets start splashing around with more expensive dacs you will all come to the darkside...


----------



## painted klown

ninjahamster said:


> I agree with you - but I would take out the "usually" in that equation ... There may be differences which are obviously discernible - definitely - but one should base their opinions (where possible) on extended listening - not a quick "back and forth" - often those "easily discernible" differences can dispose you to like something which longer-term listening proves to be a "flash and bang".  You are absolutely right in suggesting that speakers and headphones reveal more differences immediately ... it's just that these impressions may change over time ... actually, now that I look at it, I'm not really disagreeing with you at all ... I'm agreeing with you, and then adding an additional component which is worth considering.  I would not take "usually" out of the equation at all ... I would just add this addendum ...


 

 I agree 100%.
  
 I bought my main speakers (Bowers & Wilkins 684) based on inexperience and cost. After living with them for several years now, I lament the fact I made such a hasty decision. Replacing speakers isn't cheap to do (IMO). After owning them for a while, I find the aluminum tweeters to be extremely sibilant and fatiguing at high volumes for long listening sessions. 
  
 To the uninitiated/inexperienced listener (me, when I bought them) they sounded good at low  to medium volume levels. They sound "impressive" to the new audiophile (having never really heard hi-fi speakers before) as they sounded "full and engaging" with good bass and decent detail in the top end. I now feel that their "detailed top end" is nothing more than exaggerated highs. I think they are fine for movies, no complaints there. However, for 2 channel critical music listening, I crave something more.
  
 If I were to buy new speakers today, I would (most likely) get something that sounds considerably different than what I currently own. Definitely something that leans toward a "darker" sound, and no more metal tweeters (I am thinking ribbon, or silk dome tweeters may fit the bill).
  
  
 All of this is IMO, and I mean no offense to owners of B&W speakers (heck, I own them myself). If you love yours, that is great, I just wish I loved mine. Then again, I do have their lowest cost towers. LOL!
  
 But I am way off topic now...
  
 On Topic: I understand that some tube lovers are generally attracted to tubes because of the color the tubes add to the signal. This is sometimes described as "Tube-iness" (that's the technical term 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Some people like a lot of this "tube sound" while others seem to like just enough for a little smoothing of the highs and a bit of mid-range thickening.
  
 For those with tube experience, how would you rate the "Tube-iness" of the Vali? Does it add a lot of that tube sound, or a little bit of "tube flavor" to the signal?


----------



## purrin

m-13 said:


> Just to be clear guys. Evaluating dacs comes more easily after you get used to a few nice quality dacs. Once you know what to look for and where it really doesn't take that long to hear a difference. Like 10 seconds of a passage of song that is super complex with lots of things happening will literally reveal almost everything about that dac. A lesser dac will smear the details and the attacks will sound blunted and messy at the end or the tonality will be off, bloated or recessed somewhere. There is also resolution, the ability to extract micro-details. etc. I mean seriously once you hear the difference it's startling and hard to go back to $100 dacs. The reason it takes so long to figure out the difference initally is just a lack of experience. Once you have the experience the differences are very in your face hard to miss even after just a few second of listening. It doesn't take weeks or months everytime you get a new dac. I'm just saying your very first one might take that long.
> 
> And no need to jump into $10k territory. Just try the $600 Concero, or if you can swing a get a X-Sabre, DA8, Anedio D2. Or buy any of these used if you want them cheaper. They're all near $1000 or under. You can probably resell them at the exact price you bought them for. People spend $1000 on headphones all the time, LCD-2/T1/HD800, hell even the HD700 went for a $1000. Try a dac in that range if you already have a phone of this caliber and get ready to smile big and eat crow.


 
  
 +1
  
 Ahhh, that felt good.


----------



## tdockweiler

Well, I hope a lot more people get the Vali in on Monday and can post impressions. This way I can be sure i'm not hearing things.
 I swear that i'm sitting here and the Vali is not really there. Sounds crazy, but yeah I can't complain about this.
 I haven't used my Modi with it since day 1 but I guess I'll try that again now.
  
 Normal people on a budget should still consider the Modi to pair up with it. Nothing wrong with it or an ODAC.
 I don't consider a $400 DAC a budget item!
  
 I think for the Q701 a Vali + Modi/ODAC would be perfect.
  
 Modded Q701 on the Vali has gotten the most use so far.
 Now to figure out why my DJ100 sounds a bit weird on it..


----------



## purrin

painted klown said:


> For those with tube experience, how would you rate the "Tube-iness" of the Vali? Does it add a lot of that tube sound, or a little bit of "tube flavor" to the signal?


 
  
 Let me photoshop an illustration for you with other amps for reference. Give me a about 30 minutes. I'm trying to make the most of double XP weekend in SWTOR right now by killing some Imperial scum.


----------



## jbarrentine

m-13 said:


> and they have to convince themselves expensive dacs don't makea difference. Their ears are open to any and all arguments that dacs are unimportant.


 
  
 On the flip side of this are the people on headfi who swear that unless you're spending hundreds of dollars on a cable you just aren't getting the right experience. There's truth in there somewhere between the two extremes, but many of us are trying to sort through the crap to make intelligent decisions that don't break the bank uselessly.


----------



## Currawong

A fact is only true in the context which it is presented.


----------



## NinjaHamster

painted klown said:


> I agree 100%.
> 
> I bought my main speakers (Bowers & Wilkins 684) based on inexperience and cost. After living with them for several years now, I lament the fact I made such a hasty decision. Replacing speakers isn't cheap to do (IMO). After owning them for a while, I find the aluminum tweeters to be extremely sibilant and fatiguing at high volumes for long listening sessions.
> 
> ...


 
 Your tale of woe is not uncommon - It is a "rite of passage".  We learn to trust our ears too late it would seem - at least in most cases - amongst the various reviews and ("they must know better than me") opinions ... ultimately only we know what we want, and we all all different ... Purrin might love the Vali and I might go "why"? (this was not a real example - I haven't heard it).  Ultimately, the people who make the most progress are those who consider other opinions but also know themselves and their own preferences ... this is hard in a lot of cases (how do you try a lot of gear to DETERMINE your own preferences in the first place?).  In the USA, this might be easy, otherwise you have to spend a lot of money and "thinking time" to work out who you are and what you believe.  Once you do, WOW.  You can often ignore the high prices, and go with something cheap, but which "does it" for you with a little research.  It really is a tale of growing up and becoming independent, but we each have to do it for ourselves - I can't tell you what you might like and visa versa.  The main ingredients are inclination and  time - unfortunate as we have so little time ... but still, I choose to view this as a message of hope rather than doom (but ask me tomorrow, it might be different) ...


----------



## M-13

jbarrentine said:


> On the flip side of this are the people on headfi who swear that unless you're spending hundreds of dollars on a cable you just aren't getting the right experience. There's truth in there somewhere between the two extremes, but many of us are trying to sort through the crap to make intelligent decisions that don't break the bank uselessly.


 

 We all are man. Nobody likes wasting money. There are lots of smart people on here. It takes brains and an education to make money to spend on audio gear. You don't make money by making bad deicsions and being dumb. I think it's important to not dismiss the experience of others unless you've given them a fair evaluation. And yeah cables can make a difference, a small or big difference depending on how you view it.
  
 These days with so many places offering no hassle returns and trial periods for dacs, it's very easy to go hear for youself without taking a hit to the wallet. Or like I mentioned going used is also great because you can sell it back to the community for almost no loss or no loss at all in most cases.
  
 Snake oil is everywhere, not just in audio. But you have to understand most people on this forum don't have any secret agendas or motivations. We're all here to enjoy music and share our experiences. Yeah there are some bad eggs, but they kind of reveal themselves in an obvious manner in due time.


----------



## sfwalcer

jbarrentine said:


> On the flip side of this are the people on headfi who swear that unless you're spending hundreds of dollars on a cable you just aren't getting the right experience. There's truth in there somewhere between the two extremes, but many of us are trying to sort through the crap to make intelligent decisions that don't break the bank uselessly.


 
 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


currawong said:


> A fact is only true in the context which it is presented.


 
 ^
 a talkin' birdie.......


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## JeremyR

m-13 said:


> Just an observation from spending some time on Head-Fi...
> 
> It seems like this "dacs don't make much of a difference" *theme *always repeats itself in threads that are budget item oriented.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am going to start this with I know nothing, so forgive me. I am new to the high end audio game.
  
 Is there any equipment that can measure the analog signal coming out of a DAC, so it can be objectively compared? I would think the delta in DAC's could be easily quantified if such a tool existed.


----------



## M-13

jeremyr said:


> I am going to start this with I know nothing, so forgive me. I sam new to the high end audio game.
> 
> Is there any equipment that can measure the analog signal coming out of a DAC, so it can be objectively compared? I would think the delta in DAC's could be easily quantified if such a tool existed.


 

 Honestly I wish some genius would come up with an objective way to quantify headphones, amps, and dacs, so that we can stop arguing. I can just say, hey look the ODAC achieved a 87 out a 100 and the Perfect Wave Dac II achieved 91, so it's objectively 4 points better.
  
 I somehow doubt this is going to happen though... and thus the human race continues to argue and rage about nothing. Even if we had measurements people who disagree about the methology used and thus we have scientists and petty squabling in peer-reviewed journals. LOL.


----------



## waynes world

m-13 said:


> Just an observation from spending some time on Head-Fi...
> 
> It seems like this "dacs don't make much of a difference" *theme *always repeats itself in threads that are budget item oriented.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you trying to tell me that my $50 HifimeDIY Sabre dac is *NOT* the _*BEST*_ dac ever???


----------



## Deni5

jeremyr said:


> I am going to start this with I know nothing, so forgive me. I am new to the high end audio game.
> 
> Is there any equipment that can measure the analog signal coming out of a DAC, so it can be objectively compared? I would think the delta in DAC's could be easily quantified if such a tool existed.


 
  
 'Preference' always plays a role as well so even if it would be measurable it wouldn't say that much. Finding a like-minded would give some clues though.


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> Sorry got confused between O2 and ODAC.
> 
> 
> That's awesome. I don't doubt what you hear. I'm sorry that you wasted your money on the Vali since it doesn't do anything more for you. If you ever want to return your Vali, I will pay your 15% restocking fee on the account of my bad recommendation.
> ...


 
  
 Nope, i'm really loving the Vali. When I bought it my returns were all used up with Schiit (1 per year) so I would keep it or sell it. Definitely a keeper. I actually bought it as a bedroom amp for my CD player and Xbox 360. It's actually close enough to my favorite sound in an amp and that's why I like it.
  
 So far I'd say the Vali is tied with the O2 as the 2nd best amp i've heard. In total i've only heard less than 10 desktop amps though. O2 isn't perfect, but I loved it when I had it.
  
 Right now i'm testing the Modi with the Vali and HD-650. It seems like it sounds a bit more blurry/muffled than it normally does. Like almost a slightly double whammy in warmth, but why?! I don't even find the Modi warm. Confusing. Still not too bad.
  
 The Modi ALWAYS sounds crystal clear with the Micro and O2 with the HD-650 so this is a bit weird.
  
 Vali + HD-650 sounds amazing with the Micro DAC which has the CS4398 chipset. Same with the modded Q701.
  
 Maybe next year i'll try the Bifrost but it's a bit out of my price range though.


----------



## NinjaHamster

deni5 said:


> 'Preference' always plays a role as well so even if it would be measurable it wouldn't say that much. Finding a like-minded would give some clues though.


 
 Yep ... like most of the female porn stars ... they like men, and I like the porn stars, and I'm a man ... almost  ... that gave me a clue that I should be dating a porn star ... It hasn't worked very well so far, but I'm still hoping ...


----------



## Anavel0

Maybe Tyll Hertsens can come up with something like his headphone measurements but for DACs.


----------



## leesure

> Normal people on a budget should still consider the Modi to pair up with it. Nothing wrong with it or an ODAC.
> I don't consider a $400 DAC a budget item!


 
  
 I long ago ceased trying to impose my vision of 'budget' or 'value' onto others.  $400 may not be  budget item to you, but to many others who expect to spend $1200+ on a DAC, $400 IS a budget price.  
  
 Just work on what sounds good TO YOU and fits into YOUR budget and stop expecting others to see things through your eyes.


----------



## M-13

waynes world said:


> Are you trying to tell me that my $50 HifimeDIY Sabre dac is *NOT* the _*BEST*_ dac ever???


 
  
 No man it PROBABLY IS the best ever! Best dac ever (like that song).  What can be better than something you hand built? The value is just off the charts.


----------



## purrin

> painted klown said:
> 
> 
> > For those with tube experience, how would you rate the "Tube-iness" of the Vali? Does it add a lot of that tube sound, or a little bit of "tube flavor" to the signal?
> ...


 
  
 Take this with a pinch of salt. It's really not so clear cut and more complex than this.
 Use it as a rough indicator of where things stand.


----------



## kstuart

matttcg said:


> please explain why anyone would choose USB over the optical connection. It's more expensive and schiit has always recommended Optical over usb for best sound quality. also much less expensive. A


 

 This seems to have changed with the new USB Gen 2 board.   This comment by Jason indicating that they feel that USB is a little better than SPDIF with the new board.   (http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/1215#post_9772462)
  
 Note that prior to this, many other DAC engineers have insisted that USB is superior (Halverson, Rankin come to mind).  Now that Schiit have had enough time to come out with a competitive USB board, they seem to have changed their mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS  Darko confirms that the new USB Gen 2 board is as good as Jason claims...
  
*Note that we are really getting into TINY subtleties with different digital connection methods!  I would not spend money just to find out it makes little difference in your setup.*


----------



## NinjaHamster

anavel0 said:


> Maybe Tyll Hertsens can come up with something like his headphone measurements but for DACs.


 
 You mean he could come up with "Stereophile" ?  OK, let's all hope in the DeLorien and enjoy the ride !!


----------



## Barry S

tdockweiler said:


> ...Right now i'm testing the Modi with the Vali and HD-650. It seems like it sounds a bit more blurry/muffled than it normally does. Like almost a slightly double whammy in warmth, but why?! I don't even find the Modi warm. Confusing. Still not too bad.
> The Modi ALWAYS sounds crystal clear with the Micro and O2 with the HD-650 so this is a bit weird...


 
  
 The Modi is neutral, but it does have some congestion and thickness compared to to the Gungnir. The Vali soundstage is smaller than the Mjolnir and the overall sound is more closed in, but it sounds just articulate enough to enjoy with the Gungnir feeding it. Modi/Vali is probably going to be a little thick or veiled.  I'll test it tomorrow with my Modi and HD650 against the Magni. The Gungnir>Vali sounds better than the Modi>Mjolnir, so score one for the DACists.


----------



## purrin

m-13 said:


> We all are man. Nobody likes wasting money. There are lots of smart people on here. It takes brains and an education to make money to spend on audio gear. You don't make money by making bad deicsions and being dumb. I think it's important to not dismiss the experience of others unless you've given them a fair evaluation. And yeah cables can make a difference, a small or big difference depending on how you view it.
> 
> These days with so many places offering no hassle returns and trial periods for dacs, it's very easy to go hear for youself without taking a hit to the wallet. Or like I mentioned going used is also great because you can sell it back to the community for almost no loss or no loss at all in most cases.
> 
> Snake oil is everywhere, not just in audio. But you have to understand most people on this forum don't have any secret agendas or motivations. We're all here to enjoy music and share our experiences. Yeah there are some bad eggs, but they kind of reveal themselves in an obvious manner in due time.


 
  
 The way I see audio (and cars): it's the equivalent of women's cosmetics / skin-care products / plastic surgery. No doubt there's a luxury / cachet element to it. I got no problem with a successful busy banker, doctor, lawyer, businessman dropping five to six figures on expensive audio gear. They work hard for their money and have little time to waste evaluating gear on a constant basis. They just hear something they like, think it's awesome, and just go for it. Then they can brag to their friends about the cool audio stuff they can easily afford. Not anything different from the OC housewives who compare boob jobs (yes that actually happens around here.)
  
 Let me get back to one crucial fact: the Vali costs $119.


----------



## purrin

kstuart said:


> This seems to have changed with the new USB Gen 2 board.   This comment by Jason indicating that they feel that USB is a little better than SPDIF with the new board.   (http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/1215#post_9772462)
> 
> Note that prior to this, many other DAC engineers have insisted that USB is superior (Halverson, Rankin come to mind).  Now that Schiit have had enough time to come out with a competitive USB board, they seem to have changed their mind.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have an old USB board and a new Gen 2 USB board on hand. I have not had a chance to AB them thoroughly yet, but comparisons between the coax from my PC (what I use in favor of the built-in USB on the PWD2 DAC - actually a very good implementation already) and the USB Gen 2 seem to indicate no difference. This is a score for the USB Gen 2 board because usually USB sucks - like really sucks - compared to coax from a decent source. It is very subtle though. The Uber Analog board is a no-brainer must have upgrade. The USB Gen 2 - that depends on your setup.


----------



## olor1n

> Originally Posted by *purrin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...]
> 
> Let me get back to one crucial fact: the Vali costs $119.


----------



## purrin

olor1n said:


>


 
  
 Let's embark on a path of constant side-grades: acquire four amps at about $99 each on average, three DACs at about $149 each, and five headphones at about $300; and then bitch about about the $419 Beef-Roast is too extravagant and high-end for their tastes.
  
 Moar <> bettar. Unless of course you want to list an extensive headphone CV in your profile to proclaim your awesomeness.


----------



## painted klown

Purrin, Thanks a lot for that chart. Although I have not really heard many of those amps (have only heard a couple different headroom amps at a local shop), it does put things into an easy to understand chart, and is a great point of reference.
  
 That fact that it leans toward the "syrupy" side, is good news to my ears, as I feel that it would be a very good indicator of weather or not I will enjoy tubes as a whole.  IMO, it seems to be a low cost way to test the water.
  
 Thanks again, I haven't really posted/read much on this forum, but you come across as an experienced head-fi'er who is more than willing to help out us noobs. I see that your comments can sometimes be polarizing, but anyone who garners a lot of respect will evoke strong responses to their opinion...as it matters to a lot of people, and clearly holds some sway.


----------



## hans030390

You all are going to love this. This is my current setup I'm toying around with:
  
 1. USB to JKSPDIF MK3 to DAC
 2. Metrum Quad DAC (Got this with the JKSPDIF for $750 used for everything...couldn't resist trying a NOS DAC - Currently using with XXHighEnd software)
 3. Schiit Vali ($120)
 4. Tascam TH-02 ($30, about $55-60 after mods)
  
 Mmm, that upside sound cost pyramid sounds good. 
  
 The ringing scared the crap out of me when I plugged the headphones in. Saw that Schiit directly addressed it on the product page and went about my business.
  
 It's a great amp, and the price doesn't hurt. It's also got a bit of a noise floor with sensitive headphones, but, eh.
  
   
 Quote:


jeremyr said:


> Is there any equipment that can measure the analog signal coming out of a DAC, so it can be objectively compared? I would think the delta in DAC's could be easily quantified if such a tool existed.


 

  
 Yes...you can find DAC measurements all over the internet...frequency response, distortion (of all types), noise, impulse response, sine wave response, etc. You name it. I'm just starting to learn some of the complexities behind it. For example, the measured frequency response of a DAC might tip you off to the type of upsampling or digital filtering is being used, though there's more to be said about how upsampling or digital filters affect the sound outside of just the frequency response (ex: they can also affect pre and post-ringing in the sound...check impulse responses). I'm trying out a NOS DAC (non-oversampling) to see if my ears find the DAC less fatiguing. NOS DACs have their own measurable advantages, but they also have downsides, generally in harmonic and intermodulation distortion. But, a true NOS DAC should have a clean impulse response without ringing. Measurements can show these things but can't always necessarily answer which balance of benefits and compromises your ears will prefer.


----------



## purrin

painted klown said:


> Purrin, Thanks a lot for that chart....


 
  
 You are welcome. Don't take me too seriously. I've been laughing my ass off this entire time and still have a smile glued to my face.  I'm just having fun rest day now that I've managed to send my parents back home this morning.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

painted klown said:


> Thank you for the input.
> 
> Can you please elaborate on the differences between these two amps?
> 
> ...


 

 what phones do you intend to use with it?


----------



## tdockweiler

painted klown said:


> That fact that it* leans toward the "syrupy" side*, is good news to my ears, as I feel that it would be a very good indicator of weather or not I will enjoy tubes as a whole.  IMO, it seems to be a low cost way to test the water.


 
  
 IMO it's not even remotely like that, but we'll see what others say in the next week. I know Purrin didn't say this.
  
 Don't forget that it's a hybrid tube amp.


----------



## NinjaHamster

I'm pretty sure - given Schiit's track record - that this amplifier punches well above its weight ... even if it isn't the "absolute best" so many people, amazingly, wished for ...


----------



## jexby

purrin said:


> You are welcome. Don't take me too seriously. I've been laughing my ass off this entire time and still have a smile glued to my face.  I'm just having fun rest day now that I've managed to send my parents back home this morning.


 
  
 have you ever answered what tubes are in your Lyr ? ?
 Inquiring minds want to know.  including my ears on Straffe Hendrik quad.


----------



## NinjaHamster

jexby said:


> have you ever answered what tubes are in your Lyr ? ?
> Inquiring minds want to know.  including my ears on Straffe Hendrik quad.


 
 I think he experimented with several quite expensive tubes - not that that necessarily means much.


----------



## olor1n

ninjahamster said:


> I'm pretty sure - given Schiit's track record - that this amplifier punches well above its weight ... even if it isn't the "absolute best" so many people, amazingly, wished for ...


 
  
 Lol. Nice edit.


----------



## purrin

jexby said:


> have you ever answered what tubes are in your Lyr ? ?
> Inquiring minds want to know.  including my ears on Straffe Hendrik quad.


 
  
  I did (the stock JJs) but it got buried in the posts.


----------



## NinjaHamster

olor1n said:


> Lol. Nice edit.


 
 LOL - I knew you would understand ... just "shiit stirring".  I'm bored


----------



## painted klown

tdockweiler said:


> IMO it's not even remotely like that, but we'll see what others say in the next week. I know Purrin didn't say this.
> 
> Don't forget that it's a hybrid tube amp.


 
 I have not heard any tube or tube hybrid amps, neither full size, or headphone related.
  
 From my very limited understanding, the biggest difference between a "full" tube design and a hybrid design has to do with the output stage(s)? Not 100% sure about that, nor really sure how much that can influence the way an amp ultimately sounds.
  


purrin said:


> You are welcome. Don't take me too seriously. I've been laughing my ass off this entire time and still have a smile glued to my face.  I'm just having fun rest day now that I've managed to send my parents back home this morning.


 
  
 Good deal. I know everyone has their own opinions, that are all influenced by their past experiences and personal tastes. I like to read a lot of reviews/opinions on gear before making a purchase, as I feel "conventional wisdom" on a certain piece will let me know if a particular bit of kit will suit my tastes and needs. I suppose I do have a tendency to "put more stock" into reviews that come from experienced users though.


nic rhodes said:


> what phones do you intend to use with it?


 

 Right now I only have three sets of 'phones. Skullcandy Aviators, Grado SR80i, and Senn HD-598. Ultimately, however I plan to get a set of Senn HD-650s. From my understanding, the Vali would not be a good amp for my current phones, as they are all easy to drive. For them, I plan to use the built in amplifier on the Emotiva DC-1 DAC (which I plan to order Monday 12/02/13).
  
 My plan is to get the HD-650s before I buy a dedicated HP amp to use with the Emo as purely a DAC.
  
 I had been thinking a Little Dot before I stumbled across this amp. Not sure what would be the best way to go.


----------



## jexby

purrin said:


> I did (the stock JJs) but it got buried in the posts.


 
  
 wow.  
 I'm no expert, but I'd hoped you'd tube rolled a bit to get the best out of out the the Lyr?
 before exclaiming that the Vali had the leg up on micro dynamics and details.
  
 my selection =
 Lyr + Ediswan (or RTC) for me at home with Concero HD
 and
 Vali and BiFrost Uber at work.


----------



## purrin

Na... I've grown to hate tube rolling. One starts to develop OCD and listen to tubes instead of music. Some of those tubes start to get expensive (like costing almost as much as the amp), which kind of defeats the Lyr's low price. All of a sudden, the Lyr is no longer a $350 amp. $1865 dollars later in NOS tubes, and I've finally found something that I really like... oh wait, there's more tubes I need to try...


----------



## painted klown

jexby said:


> wow.
> I'm no expert, but I'd hoped you'd tube rolled a bit to get the best out of out the the Lyr?
> before exclaiming that the Vali had the leg up on micro dynamics and details.
> 
> ...


 

 The good thing about doing the comparisons with the stock tubes is that it gives the readers of the review a solid point of reference. As tubes can drastically alter the way an amp sounds, and not everyone has access to the same combos, I feel it was a good idea.
  
 Does that mean the Vali is "better" than the Lyr when you roll in different/better tubes? I don't know, but with non-stock tubes for a comparison, only a few people would know the reviewers reference point.
  
 I hope that makes sense, and doesn't come across as confrontational. Just tossing out my 2 cents.


----------



## eke2k6

My 2c re: this whole DAC and too expensive discussion:
  
  
 Every hobby will have this discussion because of the simple nature of diminishing returns. You pay exponentially increasing prices for similarly decreasing performance increments. Even then, there will be arguments  about whether these changes are improvements after all. One man's "clearer and more defined" will be another man's "etched and unnatural".

 BUT the biggest effect that going deeper into a hobby has on the psyche is how much we're willing to shell out for improvements. I remember when I was hesitant to drop $80 on a Shure SE215, and even the $150 to upgrade to the GR07...and those were no small differences. Now $400 extra is acceptable for small refinements here and there. I've seen people drop $1,000 on speaker amps for headphones because they think they power them better, when the amp's sound signature was just a little bassier than their current amp and/or they didn't volume match when listening.
  
 My advice is to take a step back and also get into another hobby. Having a fresh set of eyes for something else really help reset the way you look at your current obsessions. My new one is photography. 
  
 It's like when you spend so much time obsessing over one girl/guy, thinking they're perfect...then someone else comes along and gives you the time of day. That person you were obsessing over before becomes a bit less perfect*, *if that makes any sense.


----------



## jexby

painted klown said:


> The good thing about doing the comparisons with the stock tubes is that it gives the readers of the review a solid point of reference. As tubes can drastically alter the way an amp sounds, and not everyone has access to the same combos, I feel it was a good idea.
> 
> Does that mean the Vali is "better" than the Lyr when you roll in different/better tubes? I don't know, but with non-stock tubes for a comparison, only a few people would know the reviewers reference point.
> 
> I hope that makes sense, and doesn't come across as confrontational. Just tossing out my 2 cents.


 
  
 agreed. a stable reference point is key for an apples vs apples (stock vs. stock) compare.
 it's good that Purrin revealed it as such.
  
 that being said, (to my ears) it (stock vs. stock) is not the end game comparison at all however.
 and if a few people realize that also- well all the better IMHO.


----------



## NinjaHamster

purrin said:


> Na... I've grown to hate tube rolling. One starts to develop OCD and listen to tubes instead of music. Some of those tubes start to get expensive (like costing almost as much as the amp), which kind of defeats the Lyr's low price. All of a sudden, the Lyr is no longer a $350 amp. $1865 dollars later in NOS tubes, and I've finally found something that I really like... oh wait, there's more tubes I need to try...


 
 This is true.  Some people get lucky, however - Example: I only spent twice the Lyr's cost on tubes. I AM now happy ... whether one is using their OCD to listen to tubes or transistors, HDAM's or "the mellifluous magnificence of the perfect which may be imagined"; one is never truly satisfied.  
  
 There is ALWAYS something else to try, whether tube or solid-state ... this is no unidimensional argument as might have been suggested ... one is always listening to "gear" and comparing to other "gear" ... real or imagined ... the whole POINT about the Holy Grail is that it does not exist and CAN not exist ... let's not now stoop to the level that we are reducing that to some brainless "tubes vs. solid-state" debate.  
  
 The search would go on regardless, as we are not saying "either/"or" to the right things, and we cannot ... EVER...- the concept of "infinity" exists for a reason, and that is that we know we can never comprehend all there is to comprehend, and if we did, we'd probably all commit suicide anyway as there would be nothing left to do or ponder  ...  I leave you on that cheery thought ...


----------



## hans030390

This is why computer hardware (for gaming rigs) is my go-to hobby. While the law of diminishing returns applies, at least I know exactly what I'll be getting with my money. Trying to apply the same type of objectivity to audio just isn't that simple.
  
 Now, bring up the topic of whether it's better to have good colors, contrast ratio, etc. (overall picture quality) on a monitor or better motion in the form of a higher refresh rate, lower pixel response time, lower input lag, etc. (essentially IPS vs TN), and you'll get a bunch of nerds to have debates not unlike what you'll see with audio.
  
 On the downside, I know almost any investment in my computer will literally be obsolete within 2-5 years. You don't see to many folks gaming on vintage computers.


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *painted klown* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Right now I only have three sets of 'phones. Skullcandy Aviators, Grado SR80i, and Senn HD-598. Ultimately, however I plan to get a set of Senn HD-650s. From my understanding, the Vali would not be a good amp for my current phones, as they are all easy to drive. For them, I plan to use the built in amplifier on the Emotiva DC-1 DAC (which I plan to order Monday 12/02/13).


 
 Actually, my experience so far with the Vali is just the opposite.
  
 Meaning that it is a very good amp for headphones that are easy to drive - such as the Grado SR80i and Senn HD-598 (although I do not have either of those on hand, sorry).
  
 Also, I don't have the HD650s either, but my understanding is that they are not "hard to drive", but rather "require some sort of amp to sound its best", and that would probably also apply to the HD-598.
  
 (Again, I don't have any of those three on hand and so have not tried them on the Vali.)


----------



## abhinit90

Just ordered the Vali yesterday. Do you get a confirmation email when they ship the item?
  
 This is my first order with Schiit so I'm unaware of their routines.
  
 I'm asking this because I couldn't find a way to track the "Status" of the order on the Schiit website. I can't even access the order number of my order on the site, though I got it in the email :/


----------



## RMiller

abhinit90 said:


> Just ordered the Vali yesterday. Do you get a confirmation email when they ship the item?
> 
> This is my first order with Schiit so I'm unaware of their routines.
> 
> I'm asking this because I couldn't find a way to track the "Status" of the order on the Schiit website. I can't even access the order number of my order on the site, though I got it in the email :/


 
  
 Yes, you will get confirmation ("Your order at Schiit Audio has shipped"), until then you can only wait, mine took ~4 days to ship I think


----------



## abhinit90

rmiller said:


> Yes, you will get confirmation ("Your order at Schiit Audio has shipped"), until then you can only wait, mine took ~4 days to ship I think


 
 Thank you RMiller


----------



## Zojokkeli

Just finished up paying customs etc, and the final price for Modi+Vali ended up being 280€, which would translate roughly to something around 350$. Expecting the package arrival at tomorrow. Here's hoping it's worth it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I probably have to upgrade my HD 598's to HD  600 or 650 to get most out of the experience, but that will have to wait for the time being.


----------



## oopeteroo

hi
 right now i have the he500 + Audio-GD NFB-11.32.
 But since the vali got released i kinda want to buy the modi+vali cuz it looks so sleek  and i heard its good.
 so im wondering which one will be better for he500 ? modi+vali or 11.32 ?
  
 and i will maybe sell my he500 and buy back a hd650.
 will the hd650 be better with 11.32 or modi+vali ?


----------



## leesure

purrin said:


> Na... I've grown to hate tube rolling. One starts to develop OCD and listen to tubes instead of music. Some of those tubes start to get expensive (like costing almost as much as the amp), which kind of defeats the Lyr's low price. All of a sudden, the Lyr is no longer a $350 amp. $1865 dollars later in NOS tubes, and I've finally found something that I really like... oh wait, there's more tubes I need to try...




I certainly agree that tube rolling is a rabbit hole down which you can fall and risk never getting out. 

That said, the JJ ECC88 that shipped with the Lyr is notoriously gawdawful. It's real dreck. It's grainy, blurred and harsh. To the point that I don't think Schiit even uses it any more. Audio companies were using them because they were cheap and still in production...the latter factor being very important to ensure consistency. The problem is, they also suck...HARD. Fortunately, there are inexpensive alternatives. Even the compatible 6BZ7 from Schiit's site is a big improvement over the JJ. The Amperex Orange Globes are plentiful enough and inexpensive, even relative to the price of the amp. They are not so plentiful that a manufacturer that does the volume that Schiit does could rely on a never ending supply, but plentiful enough that someone who cares about music and sound (enough to...say...use $5000 headphones) should make the effort to use them. If your judgements re: the Vali v The Lyr are based upon the configuration with the JJ's, I can understand your conclusion. 

I understand the position that states 'I'm comparing the amps the way the manufacturer configured them.' But one of the features and advantages of the Lyr is the ability to shape the sound to your taste with the tubes. To not do that is to ignore one of the key differences and advantages. 

This is not to say the Lyr is better than the Vali, tho it sounds that way to my ear. It's it simply to say that judging the Lyr with the JJ tubes is like judging the handling of a Ferrari with basic all-weather tires.

EDIT: as I thought...Schiit no longer offers the POS JJ tubes any more:


----------



## thegunner100

oopeteroo said:


> hi
> right now i have the he500 + Audio-GD NFB-11.32.
> But since the vali got released i kinda want to buy the modi+vali cuz it looks so sleek  and i heard its good.
> so im wondering which one will be better for he500 ? modi+vali or 11.32 ?
> ...


 

 You COULD use the 11.32 as a dac-only and feed it to the Vali... That's what I plan to do with my nfb-10es2.


----------



## leesure

Looks like the going rate for a pair of Amperex OG's is $79

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Amperex+orange+globe&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XAmperex+orange+globe+6dj8&_nkw=Amperex+orange+globe+6dj8&_sacat=0


----------



## NinjaHamster

leesure said:


> Looks like the going rate for a pair of Amperex OG's is $79
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Amperex+orange+globe&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XAmperex+orange+globe+6dj8&_nkw=Amperex+orange+globe+6dj8&_sacat=0


 
 And worth every penny of that !!


----------



## MattTCG

rmiller said:


> Yes, you will get confirmation ("Your order at Schiit Audio has shipped"), until then you can only wait, mine took ~4 days to ship I think


 
  
 I never got a notification or email from Schiit. I went to their website and checked my order status to find out that it had shipped and got the tracking. Actually it's on the truck for delivery now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





leesure said:


> I certainly agree that tube rolling is a rabbit hole down which you can fall and risk never getting out.
> 
> That said, the JJ ECC88 that shipped with the Lyr is notoriously gawdawful. It's real dreck. It's grainy, blurred and harsh. To the point that I don't think Schiit even uses it any more. Audio companies were using them because they were cheap and still in production...the latter factor being very important to ensure consistency. The problem is, they also suck...HARD. Fortunately, there are inexpensive alternatives. Even the compatible 6BZ7 from Schiit's site is a big improvement over the JJ. The Amperex Orange Globes are plentiful enough and inexpensive, even relative to the price of the amp. They are not so plentiful that a manufacturer that does the volume that Schiit does could rely on a never ending supply, but plentiful enough that someone who cares about music and sound (enough to...say...use $5000 headphones) should make the effort to use them. If your judgements re: the Vali v The Lyr are based upon the configuration with the JJ's, I can understand your conclusion.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree. The jj's are some of the worst tubes for the lyr and I wouldn't use them under any circumstances. They are harsh and hard to listen to. I can't imagine why Schiit ever included them on such a nice amp in the first place...well, maybe I can imagine it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





ninjahamster said:


> And worth every penny of that !!


 
  
 The Orange Globes are a very safe bet and easily let the lyr shine. I would suspect that Purrin might have felt differently about the lyr if he'd heard it with a set of Orange Globes instead of the jj's.


----------



## NinjaHamster

matttcg said:


> I never got a notification or email from Schiit. I went to their website and checked my order status to find out that it had shipped and got the tracking. Actually it's on the truck for delivery now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep - the Lyr is remarkably transparent to the tube being used given its low price.  If you just used the stock tubes, you'd be doing it a grave disservice (having said that, the GE's aren't TOO bad).


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

matttcg said:


> please explain why anyone would choose USB over the optical connection. It's more expensive and schiit has always recommended Optical over usb for best sound quality. also much less expensive. A



*Universal Serial Bus* 
Everyone uses it that's why. It's the standard for digital connections.


----------



## RMiller

matttcg said:


> I never got a notification or email from Schiit. I went to their website and checked my order status to find out that it had shipped and got the tracking. Actually it's on the truck for delivery now.


 
  
 Mine is shipped internationally, maybe there's some difference in the process then, who knows though 
  
 Btw, I've read the whole topic, but still I'm a bit puzzled, is there any DAC that should go well with Vali other than Bifrost Uber and more expensive options? Something like $250-300?


----------



## skyline315

Purrin (or anyone else that has heard both)
  
 How would you compare the Vali to the Lyr?


----------



## Barry S

skyline315 said:


> Purrin (or anyone else that has heard both)
> 
> How would you compare the Vali to the Lyr?


 

 The Lyr sounds warmer and thicker to me compared to the Vali. The Lyr has more of a tube character with a softer signature. The Vali sounds a bit cleaner to me with more treble sparkle.


----------



## oopeteroo

thegunner100 said:


> You COULD use the 11.32 as a dac-only and feed it to the Vali... That's what I plan to do with my nfb-10es2.


 

 na if i buy the vali i think i will buy the modi and sell the Audio-GD NFB-11.32
 just to keep it clean 
  
 if i would buy a hd650 will it be better to keep the 11.32 or buy the modi+vali for it ?
  
 and how about if it is he500 ?


----------



## Barry S

I've been A/B-ing the Vali and the Magni out of the Modi with my HD650s this morning. There's less of a difference between these two amps than I expected, but the Modi may be obscuring the differences. The Magni has an edgier (somewhat) brighter sound, which helps on some recordings, but sounds glare-y on others. The Vali has a nice sparkle to the treble, where the Magni can sound a bit harsh on the upper mids/lower treble.
  
 Out of the Modi--the quality of the two seems comparable, but with different signatures.  Different, but not wildly different. The Vali is softer and thicker in the mids, which makes for an easier listen, but it gets thick and murky at times. The Magni bass hits a little harder.
  
 Bass: Magni
 Mids: Magni
 Treble: Vali
  
 I think I prefer the Magni over the Vali out of the Modi with the HD650s.  Just one opinion, and I wouldn't apply it to other cans or dacs. I think either amp is a good match for the HD650 if you're looking for a reasonably-priced setup.


----------



## painted klown

A lot of good reviews/impressions flowing in now. 

Thanks to everyone for their early input.


----------



## eccom

eric_c said:


> Purrin's comments about the Bifrost make me sad. So, my iPod and PC sound card are holding back the Vali by a wide margin? =(




Comparing my iPhone 4S and my ODAC as source I estimate the difference in soundstage size to be ~30%. On top of that comes clarity, tighter bass and other sound improvements. The difference between the ODAC and dacmagic is much harder to spot. 

If ODAC or bitfrost is the right level, that depends on how much cash you got.


----------



## purrin

barry s said:


> I think I prefer the Magni over the Vali out of the Modi with the HD650s.  Just one opinion, and I wouldn't apply it to other cans or dacs. I think either amp is a good match for the HD650 if you're looking for a reasonably-priced setup.


 
  
 I don't have a Magni in front of me right now, but I'd probably feel the same way with the HD650s. The HD650s can sound a bit murky, and the clarity and treble quality of the Magni helps to overcome this. The Magni is in some ways better than the Mjolnir. But let's not go there.


----------



## TMRaven

purrin said:


> The Magni is in some ways better than the Mjolnir. But let's not go there.


 
  
  
 Oooh no you diiiiduuuuuuuuuunt.


----------



## FraGGleR

Have spent the last hour or so comparing my CEntrance HifiM8 to the Vali attached to a Nuforce HDP with Musiland Monitor 01 USB/Spdif converter.  Roughly equivalent $$ values and the two competing rigs at my desk right now.  I am using a pair of Denon D2000s at the moment.  They are very close in most things, with the Vali combo having a touch more bass and warmth and a subtly more realistic soundstage with microdetail retrieval.  It isn't that the CEntrance is missing any info, it just sounds more natural out of the Vali combo.  Now the M8 is an all in one unit without a normal lineout or analog input, so I can't isolate the DAC from the amp to do a better comparison.  With the Denons, the CEntrance has a noticeably quieter background, which is a nice benefit during quieter passages, making the details ever so slightly clearer than the Vali combo.  Thus far, I'd say overall, they are roughly equivalent in quality, but I enjoy the Vali setup just a bit more.  
  
 After I get some work done, I will switch over to the HD800s which should help bring the differences into sharper contrast as well as equalize the background noise level from the amps.


----------



## BournePerfect

tmraven said:


> Oooh no you diiiiduuuuuuuuuunt.


 
  
 Or in other words-the Mjonir is in most ways, better than the Magni. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## kstuart

zojokkeli said:


> Just finished up paying customs etc, and the final price for Modi+Vali ended up being 280€, which would translate roughly to something around 350$. Expecting the package arrival at tomorrow. Here's hoping it's worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The HD598 are a more modern driver than the HD600 or HD650.  I predict they will work very well with the Modi/Vali (although I have not auditioned that combination).
  
 You will get a better "soundstage" from the HD598 (than the 660/650), amongst other things.
  
 Those three headphones each have a different character, and preference in music may have more to do with which one likes.


----------



## ninjames

Wonder if anyone can test this with the E17 as a DAC ... just curious :]


----------



## kstuart

rmiller said:


> Btw, I've read the whole topic, but still I'm a bit puzzled, is there any DAC that should go well with Vali other than Bifrost Uber and more expensive options? Something like $250-300?


 
 * No DAC goes better with any amp or headphones than any other DAC.  It is true that amps and headphones can work well or poorly together, because the amp is powering the headphones (a 60 hp engine is not going to work for a big rig).
  
 * What Purrin said was "the Vali is clear enough that you can hear the differences between DACs" and E9 was given as an example of an amp that does not do so.
  
 * A better DAC will present more of what is on the recording.  A lesser amp - like the e9 - will then prevent you from hearing that - just like a dirty window.
  
 * I have not heard very many of the current DACs available, but the HRT MusicStreamer TwoPlus is now $279 at Amazon.  Its several years old technology, though and I have not A/B-ed with the Modi.
  
 * The Modi should go well with the Vali.  If you get a better DAC, the Vali will let you hear the difference.
  
 * People who do not listen to small details in music may miss the difference.  Its easy to find Amazon reviews of more expensive DACs where the buyer could not find any difference from something like a Modi.


----------



## MattTCG

Vali warming up now. Just caught the postman before he left the neighborhood. Whew!!


----------



## Zuckfun

matttcg said:


> Vali warming up now. Just caught the postman before he left the neighborhood. Whew!!


----------



## elwappo99

matttcg said:


> Vali warming up now. Just caught  tackled the postman before he left the neighborhood. Whew!!


----------



## tdockweiler

barry s said:


> *Out of the Modi*--the quality of the two seems comparable, but with different signatures.  Different, but not wildly different.* The Vali is softer and thicker in the mids, which makes for an easier listen, but it gets thick and murky at times*. The Magni bass hits a little harder.
> 
> Bass: Magni
> Mids: Magni
> ...


 
  
 I agree with this too (ONLY with the HD-650 and Modi!) and heard it myself with the HD-650. For some reason the Modi doesn't seem like it's old self with the Vali and HD-650. People say the Modi is holding back the Vali, but I think maybe it could be the other way around! I actually felt this way when I had the Magni with the Modi. The Modi with the Vali sounds more warm/blurry/congested than it does from an O2/Micro or Magni. Wonder why? Maybe the Vali and Modi have both a slight touch of warm and together they're not a 100% perfect match for the HD-650. It still sounds pretty good though. I'd really like to see what the ODAC sounds like in comparison to the Modi with the Vali. Maybe the ODAC will sound much worse than it normally does?
  
 To me the Modi is generally very clear sounding. I don't even find it warm. So far the Modi has sounded best out of my main amp and the O2. With those two it's crystal clear with the HD-650 and not murky or muffled even remotely. When I listen to it it really is hard to believe it only costs $99. The only time when I felt it was holding back something a tiny bit was when I tried the T90 out. First time ever I heard this. Even then it sounded great. Like the ODAC it's not super revealing and ALMOST a little forgiving. Modi sounds neutral and smooth sounding to me.
  
 Right now I would say the Vali sounds about as good as the O2 and what I already have, so that's perfect. Why the Modi sounds a bit off with it is a mystery.
  
 It'd be interesting for someone to compare the O2, Magni and Vali with a bunch of different DACs/sources (under $500) and see which one is the most revealing/accurate to what's attached to it. My money is on the O2 for sure. I really wish I had an ODAC right now. The Modi on the Vali sounds more like a crappier version of the Modi, but still good. I should mention that this is only with the HD-650. Maybe it's that the bass on the Vali is a bit sloppy/loose with some headphones. Or maybe it's just that the HD-650 isn't that great on the Vali. The HD-650 is the headphone for me that did seem slightly different with the Vali than how it normally sounds. Subtle differences.
  
 So far the modded Q701 sounds the best and not sure why. On my DJ100 the sound with the Vali isn't entirely smooth (adding a little something perhaps) and the bass is a bit more sloppy, but still good.


----------



## MattTCG

Quick initials impressions after 30 minutes.
  
 1. The Vali sounds better than the magni (bear in mind that I didn't care much for the magni...I thought it was somewhat bright/harsh without much punch...also I used magni with modi and now I have uberfrost)
  
 2. I experienced the same ringing for the first couple of minutes that others have commented on. After that I have not had any microphonics at all even when tapping the top of the case, plugging or unplugging hp's or changing out the RCA's. (note that I'm using blutack on the corners to mount to my heavy desk...I have not finished the isolation block yet but should be done with it in the next day or so). So far the only time I get any extra noise is when I turn the amp off and then back on. 
  
 3. The Vali seems to have the ability to reach a "loud" listening level very quickly. The lyr and A2 both have more play on the pot. They both allow me more play on the volume pot without seeming "loud" as the sound seem to just fill in and not blare. Hope that makes sense. 
  
 4. The hd650 sounds better so far than the he500 on the Vali. The he500 seems a little treble happy now. This may change with burn in.  I can hear sibilants that I've not heard with the he500  before. Haven't tried any other hp's yet. 
  
 5. Build quality seems decent for the price. The amp has a good weight to it. 
  
 6. Just tried the ma900 with the Vali. NOT a good match IMO because of the noise that can be quite audible even during playback. I'm disappointed that the Vali does not pair well with this hp. Might be a deal breaker for me. 
  
 Okay, back to listening and burn in.


----------



## Zojokkeli

kstuart said:


> The HD598 are a more modern driver than the HD600 or HD650.  I predict they will work very well with the Modi/Vali (although I have not auditioned that combination).
> 
> You will get a better "soundstage" from the HD598 (than the 660/650), amongst other things.
> 
> Those three headphones each have a different character, and preference in music may have more to do with which one likes.




Thanks for the input. I did some digging around and found out that 600 and 650 have been described as sounding a bit boring compared to 598. I also read that Hifiman HE-400 would sound more engaging. Would the HE-400 be a nice upgrade from the 598's? Sorry for the offtopic.


----------



## kstuart

zojokkeli said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > The HD598 are a more modern driver than the HD600 or HD650.  I predict they will work very well with the Modi/Vali (although I have not auditioned that combination).
> ...


 

 Try the HD598 with the modi/vali first before thinking of any upgrades.


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *MattTCG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 6. Just tried the ma900 with the Vali. NOT a good match IMO because of the noise that can be quite audible even during playback. I'm disappointed that the Vali does not pair well with this hp. Might be a deal breaker for me.


 
 I am not experiencing that.
  
 Do you mean hearing noise and hum of the amp during quiet passages when using the MA900 ?


----------



## TMRaven

matttcg said:


> 3. The Vali seems to have the ability to reach a "loud" listening level very quickly. The lyr and A2 both have more play on the pot. They both allow me more play on the volume pot without seeming "loud" as the sound seem to just fill in and not blare. Hope that makes sense.


 
  
  
 Yeah it's probably the fixed 11db gain.  Also that particular volume pot has less play to it than the bigger ones as seen on A2.


----------



## Eugguy

How will the Vali do with the LCD2? Can it power it with ease? Get sufficient levels of bass volume, quality, quantity?


----------



## thegunner100

+1 for Vali + hd800. Doing some initial listening before going to class. I hear a little bit of noise when nothing is playing but it is not audible when music is playing. Also, I don't seem to be experiencing any ringing from my tubes even when i tap on the chassis.


----------



## Barry S

eugguy said:


> How will the Vali do with the LCD2? Can it power it with ease? Get sufficient levels of bass volume, quality, quantity?


 

 The Vali has no problem powering (and sounding relatively good) with the LCD-X. The LCD-X drivers are more efficient than the LCD-2 drivers, but I think it would be worth trying the Vali with the LCD-2.


----------



## jexby

eugguy said:


> How will the Vali do with the LCD2? Can it power it with ease? Get sufficient levels of bass volume, quality, quantity?


 
  
 I listened to the Vali + LCD2.2 (I believe the .2 is accurate) at RMAF, and the amp had zero problem with delivering volume.
 didn't specifically listen to tonal quality of bass or have much to A/B against, but I don't recall the pairing being sloppy or "poor" in any regard.


----------



## Zojokkeli

kstuart said:


> Try the HD598 with the modi/vali first before thinking of any upgrades.




Definitely not buying any new headphones at least before summer, I'm not made of money after all. It's just nice to do some research just in case...


----------



## MattTCG

kstuart said:


> I am not experiencing that.
> 
> Do you mean hearing noise and hum of the amp during quiet passages when using the MA900 ?


 
  
 I'm hearing both noise and hum on the ma900. The music does have to even be that quiet to hear the noise. 


tmraven said:


> Yeah it's probably the fixed 11db gain.  Also that particular volume pot has less play to it than the bigger ones as seen on A2.


 
 There is no adjust for the gain internally? jumpers?


----------



## K.T.

Has anyone tried it with the HD600?
  
 The HD650 is said to have ramped up bass characteristic compared to the HD600. Maybe this is not as good a match for the Vali (compared to Magni) due to lower power and maybe lesser control of the bass? So how does it do with the HD600?
  
 If there's one thing I've learned in audio, it's that system synergy can be king. When you hit a certain synergistic pairing, the result can be way more musical that you had imagined possible with the components on hand.
  
 It sounds like this may be the case with the Vali and HD800, from what folks are saying.


----------



## kstuart

Okay, I now have well over 100 hours of burn-in, here are the first reactions:
  
 * The burn-in clears up and elevates the treble and upper mids.  At unboxing, the Vali seemed dull on the high end, and now it is bright (but not overly so).
  
 * I like the Vali the most with the.... Mad Dogs.  The Mad Dogs seem to have just enough sensitivity and the Vali just enough power for the combination to work well.  Or it could be due to some other electrical aspect.   The Vali has a shallow soundstage, and this is not a problem with the Mad Dog because it also has a shallow soundstage.
  
 * I don't like the Vali with the HE-400.  It sounds congested - there is a hint of distortion on quick transients.  I also did not like the HE-400 with the Magni and it may be that the output stage of both is in common and is not a good match for the HE-400.  I find that the HE-400 is like the other HiFiMen, in that it sounds much better on a vintage power amp (or the Emotiva which I have not heard).
  
 * The Alpha Dog does not work as well with the Vali as the Mad Dog.  The better soundstage on the Alpha Dog needs something with a better soundstage, and the Alpha Dog seems more congested on the Vali than the Mad Dog.  The more revealing capability of the Alpha Dog also more clearly reveals the weak points of the Vali.
  
 * Strong points of the Vali:
  
 - Very quick response which results in very good instrumental detail (I think what Purrin is calling "micro detail").  This is what makes it revealing of source differences.  This is the signature strong point which I think is leading some to call it as good as more expensive amps... but read on.
  
 - Smooth treble (a characteristic of tubes) - bright without being harsh
  
 - Good bass response for this price range (better than Magni with my headphones and my music)
  
 * Weak points of the Vali:
  
 - Microphonics (apparently seems to be better or worse depending on luck of the draw)
  
 - Shallow and somewhat narrow soundstage.  Imaging seems good but seems somewhat hindered by the small soundstage.
  
 - Mediocre instrumental color - the quality that makes instruments sound very different.  I think this is what some call "one note" quality.  It is unique to have instrumental detail be this good while instrumental timbre is not.   It makes it seem like an outstanding black-and-white picture as compared to a color picture.
  
 So I find the Bellari hybrid with a 1960s German or British tube to have better sound quality than the Vali, due to the better timbre (and roughly equal detail).  Neither works well with HiFiMen or Alpha Dogs, IMHO.
  
 I find that the Vali works pretty well with the Mad Dog, because neither has much of a soundstage, so a weakness is nullified.  I find that the Vali works pretty well with the MA900, because both have a lack of instrumental color, and again a weakness is nullified.  In both cases, one is not losing so much by using the Vali, because the headphones are already lacking that quality (and those qualities cannot be restored by an amp).
  
 Unfortunately, the above is a little complicated, but it took me awhile to figure out why the Vali had some excellent qualities, and yet was often not as good as the more expensive amps.
  
 Of course, this is what I hear with my system, my choice of music, and my ears and so could vary widely from someone else's equally valid impression.


----------



## thegunner100

k.t. said:


> Has anyone tried it with the HD600?
> 
> The HD650 is said to have ramped up bass characteristic compared to the HD600. Maybe this is not as good a match for the Vali (compared to Magni) due to lower power and maybe lesser control of the bass? So how does it do with the HD600?
> 
> ...


 

 I will try with my hd600s later tonight and get back to you.


----------



## kstuart

Here is what the tube looks like (ebay photo):


----------



## purrin

zojokkeli said:


> Thanks for the input. I did some digging around and found out that 600 and 650 have been described as sounding a bit boring compared to 598. I also read that Hifiman HE-400 would sound more engaging. Would the HE-400 be a nice upgrade from the 598's? Sorry for the offtopic.


 
  
 The HE-400 is complementary to the HD598. The HD598 is fairly neutral with a slight upper-mid emphasis to give it some pizzazz. The HE-400 is bassy and sparkly/airy with a recession in the upper mids. You may find trumpets, snares, etc. lacking a bit of bite and edge with the HE-400. There are cheap mods such as the Jerg pad mod which improve on the HE-400. I have tried both with the Vali. What really sets apart the HE-400 is its bass quality. A very tight and fast bass - possibly the best quality in the entire HFM lineup without having to resort to a power amp - and even then, it's still debatable that HE-5 or HE-6 bass quality is better. Both HE-400 and HD-598 work great with Vali. I have tried them both.


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> It'd be interesting for someone to compare the O2, Magni and Vali with a bunch of different DACs/sources (under $500) and see which one is the most revealing/accurate to what's attached to it. My money is on the O2 for sure. I really wish I had an ODAC right now.


 
  
 You mean a comparison like this? (And as you can see, a modest HE-500 headphone is being used instead of some uber TOTL one.)


----------



## TheGame

Well I have been following this thread since it was started and I am hearing different thoughts on the pairing of the HD650 with the Vali, especially within the last 2 or 3 pages of the thread and I am somewhat confused. I think some said they prefer the Magni over the Vali for the HD650's, while others prefer Vali for HD650's. Or were they speaking about that it terms of the whole Modi->Magni combo or Modi/Vali combo?
  
 I know most of the members here use good dacs that are not soundcards, so I guess my question is, since I am using the Creative Titanium HD soundcard, should I go for the Vali to pair with the Titanium HD or the Magni? I was planning on ordering the Vali tomorrow morning (provided that they are still in stock), but now after reading the last few pages of this thread I am confused on how well it will go with HD650's.
  
 So what do you guys think of the Titanium HD -> Vali -> HD650 or should it be the Titanium HD -> Magni->HD650?
  
 Any thoughts/help advice? I only have enough money for one of them so I can't get both to compare the two (unfortunately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 Thanks everyone.


----------



## purrin

thegame said:


> Well I have been following this thread since it was started and I am hearing different thoughts on the pairing of the HD650 with the Vali, especially within the last 2 or 3 pages of the thread and I am somewhat confused. I think some said they prefer the Magni over the Vali for the HD650's, while others prefer Vali for HD650's. Or were they speaking about that it terms of the whole Modi->Magni combo or Modi/Vali combo?
> 
> I know most of the members here use good dacs that are not soundcards, so I guess my question is, since I am using the Creative Titanium HD soundcard, should I go for the Vali to pair with the Titanium HD or the Magni? I was planning on ordering the Vali tomorrow morning (provided that they are still in stock), but now after reading the last few pages of this thread I am confused on how well it will go with HD650's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 With your setup, I would be hesitant to say whether there is going to be a clear winner between Magni and Vali. Vali does some things better than Magni and vice versa. The only reason to get Vali would be because you are curious how something _slightly_, but not overly tubey sounds like. And even then some of the differences folks have pointed out are not huge.
  
 The Vali, as with anything with a tube in the path, will have less bass precision and control. It has a little bit of upper bass lower midrange warmth which may not be ideal with characteristics of the HD650. The pluses for the Vali are its dynamic lively immediate sound, fast attacks in the treble, more liquid smoother treble, and ability to resolve low level information. (I have no idea how good the Titanium HD as a DAC is. It could be very good for all I know.) As some others have commented, the Magni can be splashy in the treble and can seem lighter on the bass. But it's control is superior and its cleaner and less congested.
  
 From a tonal balance / matching point of view with the HD650, things would favor the HD650. But again, the differences are not huge, and you may feel the positive things which the Vali brings to the table outweigh the negatives. It's never a black and white thing. Personally, I don't mind losing an small amount of bass control and articulation or gaining some "thickness" in favor of dynamic / lively / immediate and resolving.


----------



## TheGame

purrin said:


> With your setup, I would be hesitant to say whether there is going to be a clear winner between Magni and Vali. Vali does some things better than Magni and vice versa. The only reason to get Vali would be because you are curious how something _slightly_, but not overly tubey sounds like. And even then some of the differences folks have pointed out are not huge.
> 
> The Vali, as with anything with a tube in the path, will have less bass precision and control. It has a little bit of upper bass lower midrange warmth which may not be ideal with characteristics of the HD650. The pluses for the Vali are its dynamic lively immediate sound, fast attacks in the treble, more liquid smoother treble, and ability to resolve low level information. (I have no idea how good the Titanium HD as a DAC is. It could be very good for all I know.) As some others have commented, the Magni can be splashy in the treble and can seem lighter on the bass. But it's control is superior and its cleaner and less congested.
> 
> From a tonal balance / matching point of view with the HD650, things would favor the HD650. But again, the differences are not huge, and you may feel the positive things which the Vali brings to the table outweigh the negatives. It's never a black and white thing. Personally, I don't mind losing an small amount of bass control and articulation or gaining some "thickness" in favor of dynamic / lively / immediate and resolving.


 

 Thank you so much for the quick reply purrin. I really appreciate your thoughts and input. To answer some of your questions, yes I have always been curious about a tube amp. The only amp I have ever owned for headphones is a FiiO E09K which is solid-state. As far as the Titanium HD's DAC goes, it is pretty much one of the best you're going to get in terms of an internal PC soundcard DAC. I have had members say I would probably have to spend anywhere from $300+ to get anything better. (But of course that is all opinion, and I do not want to get into the whole DAC debate). Let's just say for a soundcard, the Titanium HD is pretty good with 24 bit / 192k processing with Burr-Brown chip and unfortunately the bottom-line for me is that's the only DAC I have to work with.
  
 From what I have read from your post (thank you again) it seems the Vali may be the choice I should go with.


----------



## kstuart

Titanium HD has a very good DAC chip that is the equivalent of most of the DAC chips used in DACs cheaper than Bitfrost.  However, as a soundcard, there is no jitter reclocking of any sort.   So, I am maybe roughly equivalent to Modi or close.


----------



## Goride

thegame said:


> .....


 
  
  
  
 By the way, I am basically in the exact same boat as you.
  
 I use a Creative Titanium HD soundcard as my DAC.  Currently my setup is:
  
 TitaniumHD rca out --> Emotiva Mini-X --> Arx A1b speakers
 TitaniumHD rca out--> Emotiva Mini-X rca out  --> Astro Mixamp --> HD595
  
 (The Astro Mixamp is just a little DAC/amp meant to connect nicer headphones to video game consoles.  It only outputs 70mW 32ohm per channel.  The main draw for it is that it can process a dolby live signal into dolby headphone, which can give you directional cues for video games.)
  
  
I decided to upgrade to the HD650 when I came across a good deal last week.  It just arrived today.
  
  
I knew the Mixamp was not going to cut it for these, and I would need to get a real headphone amp as well (the mixamp's days were numbered anyway, now that I have a creative titanium HD, I use it to do the video game directional processing, the mixamp is largely unneeded now).  
  
Anyway, I ended up ordering the Schiit Vali.  I was planning on getting the Magni, but then I saw the Vali on their webpage.  I realized they just released it, and I thought "what the heck? why not?", and ordered it.  I got a shipment notification over the weekend, it is on the way.
  
  
I was mainly deciding between the Magni and the Vali, and was curious about tubes, so I went with the Vali.  
  
  
But to be honest, I am considering either sending it back or selling it and ordering a Bottlehead Crack DIY kit.  Based on what everyone is saying the Bottlehead Crack is basically God's gift to HD650 users.


----------



## jaywillin

my vali has shipped !!


----------



## FraGGleR

kstuart said:


> Okay, I now have well over 100 hours of burn-in, here are the first reactions:
> 
> * The burn-in clears up and elevates the treble and upper mids.  At unboxing, the Vali seemed dull on the high end, and now it is bright (but not overly so).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing your input.  I do find it interesting how different people are hearing this amp, and based on the variance in microphonics reports, I am wondering if some of them sound different as well.  I don't find the soundstage to shallow or narrow in comparison to the two amps I currently have on hand or what I remember for other amps I have owned.  Could be a difference in DACs as well.


----------



## RMiller

kstuart said:


> * No DAC goes better with any amp or headphones than any other DAC.  It is true that amps and headphones can work well or poorly together, because the amp is powering the headphones (a 60 hp engine is not going to work for a big rig).
> 
> * What Purrin said was "the Vali is clear enough that you can hear the differences between DACs" and E9 was given as an example of an amp that does not do so.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks  Yea, I know there's no silver bullet here, but since I can't loan or otherwise demo many dacs, I'm trying to at least in some way narrow the selection. I already have Modi for my home rig, and now for my second/office one I'd like something different; though Modi is fine I'd like to mix it up a bit instead of having just two Modis  Again, thanks for the help.


----------



## kstuart

fraggler said:


> Thanks for sharing your input.  I do find it interesting how different people are hearing this amp, and based on the variance in microphonics reports, I am wondering if some of them sound different as well.  I don't find the soundstage to shallow or narrow in comparison to the two amps I currently have on hand or what I remember for other amps I have owned.  Could be a difference in DACs as well.


 
 There is an earlier post (around page 10 ??) of a tube hobbyist describing how another small amp manufacturer tried to use similar tubes in a headphone amp and eventually gave up because of the microphonics issue.  Schiit gave the task of tube matching and checking to a third party, and it is not impossible that they did not do a perfect job.  I do think that the $119 price is chosen to reflect that it's a fun product rather than a serious "statement" amp, and may not be perfect.
  
 The reports do seem to suggest that the dozen hand-built prototypes may have better performance than the production models.


----------



## kstuart

goride said:


> By the way, I am basically in the exact same boat as you.
> 
> I use a Creative Titanium HD soundcard as my DAC.  Currently my setup is:
> 
> ...


 
 The Emotiva Mini-X is one of the most highly recommended amps for headphones on this Forum. You should not need another amp.  See:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project


----------



## ethan7000

hans030390 said:


> This is why computer hardware (for gaming rigs) is my go-to hobby. While the law of diminishing returns applies, at least I know exactly what I'll be getting with my money. Trying to apply the same type of objectivity to audio just isn't that simple.
> 
> Now, bring up the topic of whether it's better to have good colors, contrast ratio, etc. (overall picture quality) on a monitor or better motion in the form of a higher refresh rate, lower pixel response time, lower input lag, etc. (essentially IPS vs TN), and you'll get a bunch of nerds to have debates not unlike what you'll see with audio.
> 
> On the downside, I know almost any investment in my computer will literally be obsolete within 2-5 years. You don't see to many folks gaming on vintage computers.



My other hobby as well


----------



## Wallboy

I'm about to order either the Magni/Modi combo or Vali/Modi to use with my K701's. What would be the better amp out of those two for those HPs?


----------



## ninjames

Excited to see someone who didn't like the Magni with the HE-400 not liking the Vali with the HE-400 for the same reasons. Because I love the Magni with the HE-400 :]


----------



## Goride

kstuart said:


> The Emotiva Mini-X is one of the most highly recommended amps for headphones on this Forum. You should not need another amp.  See:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project


 
  
  
  
 I have seen that thread.
  
 But most people tend to say that it is too much for headphones like the HD650 (and HD595).
  
 Most claim it only really works well for power hungry headphones like the HE-500, HE-6, or even the LCDs.  They even mention that the HE-400 is too sensitive.
  
  
 Since I already have it, I suppose I should get an adapter and give it a shot to see what I think.


----------



## purrin

kstuart said:


> There is an earlier post (around page 10 ??) of a tube hobbyist describing how another small amp manufacturer tried to use similar tubes in a headphone amp and eventually gave up because of the microphonics issue.  Schiit gave the task of tube matching and checking to a third party, and it is not impossible that they did not do a perfect job.  I do think that the $119 price is chosen to reflect that it's a fun product rather than a serious "statement" amp, and may not be perfect.
> 
> The reports do seem to suggest that the dozen hand-built prototypes may have better performance than the production models.


 
  
 I doubt it. I know three five others (who have similar sensibilities) with production Vali's. They like their production units just as much as I do.
  
 The tube matching process is one of matching tubes with similar electrical properties. Same thing is done with transistors on various DIY amp builds. It's not like one listens to the tubes to match them.


----------



## tdockweiler

wallboy said:


> I'm about to order either the Magni/Modi combo or Vali/Modi to use with my K701's. What would be the better amp out of those two for those HPs?


 
  
 Vali over the Magni IMO (had the Magni for 4 months) for the K701. Of course if I had only one amp that worked well with everything and was under $200 I'd pick the O2+Modi. Even with just the K701.


----------



## purrin

wallboy said:


> I'm about to order either the Magni/Modi combo or Vali/Modi to use with my K701's. What would be the better amp out of those two for those HPs?


 
  
 Vali by far. The relative inefficiency of the K701 will tame any microphonics issues. Also, I got a few reports in from people whose ears I trust concerning the the K701 / Vali. It's supposedly spectacular. Makes sense if you think about it. The K701s can sound on the try side. The slighy tubiness or "wetness" of the Vali helps with that.


----------



## mhamel

Jason has been pretty clear multiple times about the microphonics of these tubes, and it is reflected right on main product page for the Valli.
  
_"When you plug in headphones, you'll hear a little "tiiinnnnggg...." noise that *takes quite a while to go away.* If you rap the chassis, it will do the same thing. "_
  
 Again on the FAQ page:
  
_"Two, many tubes, including the ones in Vali, are microphonic. When you plug in headphones on Vali, you'll hear a little "tiiinnnnggg...." noise that takes quite a while to go away. If you rap the chassis, it will do the same thing. If you work on, say, a paint shaker table, Vali's not going to be the best amp for you. "_
  
 And again, in the manual:
  
_"Tap on Vali when it’s running and you will probably hear a ringing sound. This is because tubes are microphonic. The solution? Don’t tap on it. Tubes are also usually noiser than solid state amps. For some people, these oddities are part of the charm. If you want certainty, stick to solid state—return the Vali and go for Magni instead."_
  
 It doesn't mean the tubes aren't being matched the best that they can be - whether or not they are matched on specs has nothing to do with them being microphonic or one more microphonic than the other.
  
 (Some interesting reading here about microphonics, for anyone who'd like to learn more:  http://www.thevalvepage.com/valvetek/microph/microph.htm  )
  
 Based on everything Schiit and Jason have said, it should be expected that they will be microphonic - so it really makes no sense that anyone would be surprised by it, complain about it, think the amps don't perform as well as the samples, etc.  Schiit has been as completely up-front as they can be about the tubes used and what they are/aren't.  What they've done is produced a very nice little tube amp at an even nicer price.
  
 To me, the reports in this thread don't in any way point to the Vali not living up to the samples, but *do* point to everyone hearing things in their own way (like they do with *every* product that gets dissected here on Head-Fi). Some people love it, some people merely like it, others not so much.   Purrin may hear it as an amp that bests everything up to (a rather specific) $1600, someone else may hear it and think it's just ok, or even the worst thing they've ever heard.   They're all absolutely correct - for their own ears, their own gear, their own tastes in sound.


----------



## zerodeefex

purrin said:


>


 
 The PHA-1 and Audinst don't belong with the rest of the equipment in that picture.


----------



## Wallboy

I've heard the K701's need a lot to power them properly, so I was concerned the Vali with the lower power output than the Magni wouldn't drive them well, but I guess it will . Will probably go with the Vali/Modi then. Thanks guys.


----------



## purrin

zerodeefex said:


> The PHA-1 and Audinst don't belong with the rest of the equipment in that picture.


 
  
 Yes. With those POS there's not a huge difference between O2 / LM4562 (better bass texture / slightly flat / slight treble glare - worse with stock op-amp) and Vali (murkier bass / more lively). Once I threw in the Gungnir, and then the A-GD M7... and then the Abyss. Well let's just say the Vali scales very well and the O2 does not.


----------



## purrin

wallboy said:


> I've heard the K701's need a lot to power them properly, so I was concerned the Vali with the lower power output than the Magni wouldn't drive them well, but I guess it will . Will probably go with the Vali/Modi then. Thanks guys.


 
  
 Naaa. It's just that the headamp power wars have finally hit full steam. Even with the inefficient Abyss headphones, I have the volume knob at 10:30 on the Vali. These amps have more than enough juice to make you deaf ten times over. The power wars thing mainly came from the HFM headphones HE-5, HE-6 which for some inexplicable reason sound really good from speaker power amps.


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> Vali by far. The relative inefficiency of the K701 will tame any microphonics issues. Also, I got a few reports in from people whose ears I trust concerning the the K701 / Vali. It's supposedly spectacular. Makes sense if you think about it. The K701s can sound on the try side. The slighy tubiness or "wetness" of the Vali helps with that.


 
  
 The Q701 on the Vali hasn't tamed the microphonics at all for me. It's about the same with all headphones and is gone within about 40-60 seconds. I'll be lucky if I can adjust the volume without it going off. I put some stuff under it and it seems a little better. I can accidentally bump my desk and hear it.
  
 Your Vali must be totally different than mine. With many different sources (even docked Ipod Touch 2G) I never got mine to have any slight tubiness etc. Heck, I can hook the K400 up to it with any source and no change in it at all. I'm not complaining though.
  
 Maybe some changes or improvements were made at the last minute.
  
 Mine with any source is just very slightly fuller sounding than an O2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'd fail a blind A/B test for sure.
 Have you heard the old Wolfson DAC Ipods? Even those are warmer than this Vali I have. Easily...
  
 Maybe someone else will get one that sounds like this..I like it though.


----------



## fenderf4i

purrin said:


> Yes. With those POS there's not a huge difference between O2 / LM4562 (better bass texture / slightly flat / slight treble glare - worse with stock op-amp) and Vali (murkier bass / more lively). Once I threw in the Gungnir, and then the A-GD M7... and then the Abyss. Well let's just say the Vali scales very well and the O2 does not.


 
  
 WHAT?!? The O2 isn't the greatest amp ever made??? This is an outrage!
  
 I can't wait to give the Vali a try.


----------



## thegunner100

The ringing from plugging in my hd800s via 4pin XLR -> 1/4 adapter goes away within 15-20 seconds.


----------



## purrin

With inefficient headphones like the Abyss, I can slam on my desk with a fist (like really hard) and I don't get anything. The only thing which sets if off is the power switch and plugging in headphones.


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> With inefficient headphones like the Abyss, I can slam on my desk with a fist (like really hard) and I don't get anything. The only thing which sets if off is the power switch and plugging in headphones.


 
  
 You must have gotten the best tubes or something. I can tap on the top of the unit and it sounds like i'm tapping on a small bell or something. I can count the number of ringing sounds when tapping it lightly.
  
 You should try listening to a production unit if you haven't already to see if it's any different sounding. Probably not.
  
 Maybe with my luck it will suddenly sound awful after a week of use (burn-in).


----------



## purrin

Oddly enough, tapping on the chassis sets it off more than banging on the shelf it's sitting on.


----------



## painted klown

Interesting experiment Purrin. Yours seems to be pretty solid if it takes that much "beating" to get any serious ringing. If I had to guess, the microphonics (most likely) vary from unit to unit. That could explain why some people find it more distracting than others.
  
 As has been mentioned, the guys at Schiit are 100% open and honest regarding the microphonics, so they should come as no surprise, nor should they be considered a "serious issue" by those that have read up on them.
  
 As long as the amplifier performs "as advertised" (and I think most everyone agrees that it does) then that is all we can ask for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Following this thread has really "lit a fire" under me, that makes me want to order one as soon as funds allow. Unfortunately, it will be a while before I can (or need) to order one up. I finally decided to pull the trigger on the Emotiva DC-1 DAC today, so that will reset my savings, and it takes a long while for me to build up again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In the meantime, I will live vicariously through everyone in this thread. HA!


----------



## tdockweiler

I'm listening to the modded Q701 with Vali and Modi right now and it's really impressive. I only did that for 1 hour on the first day.
 Now why that same setup is not so great with the HD-650 and DJ100 makes no sense..
  
 I'm going to go try my thrift store cd player (Denon 1920 with Wolfson 8740 DAC) and a docked Ipod Touch. Maybe for fun i'll try a Clip+ and see what happens there..
 I find the Ipod Touch 2G kind of lean/thin and almost bright. I like it though.
  
 Trying the PS1 will be fun too. That's probably the warmest sounding source I have easily.
  
 It'd be hilarious if my Vali sounds way warmer in a week. Pretty much impossible you'd think.


----------



## manbear

goride said:


> But most people tend to say that it is too much for headphones like the HD650 (and HD595).
> 
> Most claim it only really works well for power hungry headphones like the HE-500, HE-6, or even the LCDs.  They even mention that the HE-400 is too sensitive.
> 
> Since I already have it, I suppose I should get an adapter and give it a shot to see what I think.


 

 I use the Emotiva with the HE-400 (and resistors), and I've run the Q701 from it as well. I don't have the right kind of resistor network for dynamic cans like the Q701, but it still sounded good. No noise at all, and a similar overall level of SQ as my Little Dot MKIII. I'd definitely suggest getting an adapter with some resistors and giving it a shot. Check out the speaker amps thread for details on the resistors.


----------



## jbarrentine

purrin said:


> With inefficient headphones like the Abyss, I can slam on my desk with a fist (like really hard) and I don't get anything. The only thing which sets if off is the power switch and plugging in headphones.


 
  
 I have mine currently sitting on a stack of paper, and I can tap the top very hard and not get any ringing out of it (Just did this once, first time ever, heh). I only get ringing at power on for roughly 15 seconds, and it's light. I don't plug/unplug while it's running.


----------



## darinf

I am using a stock pair of HD800's with my Vali.
  
 When I plug in the headphones, I get VERY loud ringing. Loud enough that I can hear it even if I don't have the headphones on.
  
 It takes on average about 45 seconds for the ringing to reduce down to a level where it's barely audible.
  
 Tapping on the case will cause ringing too, but not nearly as loud as when plugging in headphones. I will get fairly noticeable ringing if the headphone cord brushes the case at all. This can take 15 to 20 seconds to go away.
  
 I also noticed that my cell phone causes static on the Vali if the phone is on the desk near the Vali.
  
 I guess it is the luck of the draw on how much ringing/microphonics your Vali will have.


----------



## TheGame

goride said:


> By the way, I am basically in the exact same boat as you.
> 
> I use a Creative Titanium HD soundcard as my DAC.  Currently my setup is:
> 
> ...


 

 I just spoke with a Schiit Tech about the Magni or Vali to go with my Titanium HD and the Sennheiser HD 650's His reply was:
  
*"Vali, without a doubt."*
  
_(Tech's Name Omitted)_
  
 But if I had the money, I would get a Bottlehead Crack, hopefully in the future - that or a Lyr


----------



## purrin

darinf said:


> I am using a stock pair of HD800's with my Vali.
> 
> When I plug in the headphones, I get VERY loud ringing. Loud enough that I can hear it even if I don't have the headphones on.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, tubes can be a magnet for RF. I had the same issue with the Apex Peak.
  
 There are some ways to ameliorate the ringing sound: 
  

Firm hold the chassis to dampen it. Slowly insert the headphone plug with a firm grip, taking care to avoid sudden shocks or snaps.
Place it on a plastic or metal plate covered with Creatology foam on the bottom.
Purchase numerous Vali/Bifrost and keep all headphones plugged into to them.
  
 BTW, I now recommend the USB Gen 2 upgrade after A/B with the old / new USB boards, but that's another whole can of worms.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have a Crack / speedball here (brilliant amp) but I wouldn't be in any rush to ditch my Vali for one. The Vali can driving more headphones and at least as well.


----------



## julzd

nic rhodes said:


> I have a Crack / speedball here (brilliant amp) but I wouldn't be in any rush to ditch my Vali for one. The Vali can driving more headphones and at least as well.


 
 What would you say vali's strengths and weaknesses are when compared to the crack/speedball using the HD600? And on sound quality alone which amp is better?


----------



## TheGame

julzd said:


> What would you say vali's strengths and weaknesses are when compared to the crack/speedball using the HD600? And on sound quality alone which amp is better?


 

 Good question, I would like to know too!


----------



## darinf

FYI, I just tried the Vali with some IEM's...
  
 Forget about it with low impedance/high sensitivity CIEM's or IEM's. The noise is just too loud for me. 
  
 However, the Vali pairs quite well with my Etymotic ER-4S's at 100 ohm impedance and my Heir Tzar 350's at 350 ohm, which makes sense, of course. The Vali actually slightly "tames" the brightness of the Tzar 350's.


----------



## eke2k6

I was wondering if I could get some help.
  
 From my perspective, the only headphone I see that will be an endgame for me is the SR-009/BHSE combo. I won't be able to afford it for another couple of years, so I was thinking of reacquiring a HD600 and a Bottlehead Crack. I heard the Crack is possibly _the _endgame amp for the HD600. However, it's a DIY project, and has a long waitlist.
  
 Enter the Vali. 
  
 It's half the price of the unbuilt Crack, and is described as having a similar tube clarity and detail as the Crack. 
  
 Is there a HD600 owner who owns/will own both the Crack and Vali? Your input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## TheGame

Just completed my order for the Vali - Finallly!
  
*P.S.* _*Why doesn't the Vali have the Schiit Logo on the top of the unit like some of their other products? Anyone know? Like this one on the Asgard 2:*_


----------



## Ending

thegame said:


> Just completed my order for the Vali - Finallly!
> 
> *P.S.* _*Why doesn't the Vali have the Schiit Logo on the top of the unit like some of their other products? Anyone know? Like this one on the Asgard 2:*_


 
 None of the smaller Schiit products have that logo.


----------



## TheGame

ending said:


> None of the smaller Schiit products have that logo.


 
  
 Thanks, after looking at all of their products closer I see what you mean, thank you for the reply!


----------



## Eric_C

Mad Dogs just arrived. Sounds good on Vali.


----------



## vaibhavp

a noob question:
  
 do Vali tubes need replacement like normal full tube amp? How many hours of life are they rated at?


----------



## Eric_C

vaibhavp said:


> a noob question:
> 
> do Vali tubes need replacement like normal full tube amp? How many hours of life are they rated at?


 
  
http://schiit.com/products/vali
 Click "FAQ".
  


> ...tubes also have a lifespan, though Vali's tubes are expected to last 10,000-20,000 hours--which is 7-14 years of listening 4 hours a day, every day.


 


> * What happens when the tubes croak? *
> You'd send it back to us and we'll replace them for $20. If they ever do go bad, that is. We're betting they won't


----------



## MattTCG

eke2k6 said:


> I was wondering if I could get some help.
> 
> From my perspective, the only headphone I see that will be an endgame for me is the SR-009/BHSE combo. I won't be able to afford it for another couple of years, so I was thinking of reacquiring a HD600 and a Bottlehead Crack. I heard the Crack is possibly _the _endgame amp for the HD600. However, it's a DIY project, and has a long waitlist.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've heard the crack many times. It's certainly better than the Vali IMO. But still, the Vali sounds good with hd600/650. In fact the hd650 is the best match for me. The Vali does not pair well with the he500 and ma900 for me. 
  
 kstuart states that he perceives a shift towards more sparkle and clarity after burn in. I'm hearing a bit too much sparkle in the treble pre-burn in. With more sparkle after burn in this would be a real issue for me. The he500 are just too bright and sibilant with the Vali. The ma900 is much too noisy. 
  
 I'd be interested in Purrin's impression of the Vali with the he500...sorry if it's already been given. 
  
 The hd600/650 is the best match. They are somewhat darker hp's and the sparkle of the Vali seems to be a good balance without become harsh and sibilant.


----------



## hans030390

I'm thinking for now, I'll stick with the Vali as my general amp, the Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II for more sensitive headphones and portable usage, and the vintage Sansui receiver for orthos (have yet to try the HE-500 with the Vali, but it sounds like the receiver would do a better job controlling the bass response based on what purrin and others have said).


----------



## ethan7000

darinf said:


> I am using a stock pair of HD800's with my Vali.
> 
> When I plug in the headphones, I get VERY loud ringing. Loud enough that I can hear it even if I don't have the headphones on.
> 
> ...



With any tube amp picking up cell interference - if you have wifi available, turn off cellular data. Noise should go away.


----------



## NinjaHamster

matttcg said:


> I've heard the crack many times.


 
  
 I've heard that the "crack" stinks.


----------



## moshin29

Just received my Vali/Modi. Great combo when paired with the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro & Audio Technica ATH-M50!!


----------



## Makiah S

moshin29 said:


> Just received my Vali/Modi. Great combo when paired with the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro & Audio Technica ATH-M50!!


 
 wooot happy to hear it sounds good with the DT 990... 
  
 I wish I still had m DT 990 so I could do a real review of the pair q.q
  
 I only have my Dt 880 which should suffice xD 
  
 Also at @purrin 
 Pretty sure my Balanced NFB10ES2 Dac will be more than enough for the Vali ;3


----------



## rockpile6

I have only about 5 hours burn-in time and first shot listen to the Vali via Gungnir/HD600 tells me that this amp is worth more than the money spent. It must be luck of the draw when it comes to tubes but so far I have not experienced any ringing as described by many.  I plugged the headphones in before turning the unit on and have not tried switching headphones while on. Volume adjustment also does not cause any ringing. I think this one is definitely a keeper.


----------



## JoeKickass

matttcg said:


> The he500 are just too bright and sibilant with the Vali. The ma900 is much too noisy.



For noise I highly recommend using an attenuator, it basically increases the impedance. The minus 10 dB one is good enough for my 40 ohm headphones to have zero noise, I would probably go minus 20 dB for iem's though:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/198828/the-hissbuster-for-sensitive-headphones


----------



## Bajsklittan

Doesn't ATH-M50 get a lot of background noise with the vali?


----------



## Barry S

rockpile6 said:


> I have only about 5 hours burn-in time and first shot listen to the Vali via Gungnir/HD600 tells me that this amp is worth more than the money spent. It must be luck of the draw when it comes to tubes but so far I have not experienced any ringing as described by many.  I plugged the headphones in before turning the unit on and have not tried switching headphones while on. Volume adjustment also does not cause any ringing. I think this one is definitely a keeper.


 
  
 I'm glad some people are trying the Vali with higher end DACs. My own experience is that the Vali is perfectly serviceable with the Modi, but doesn't offer a significant improvement over something like the Magni. Sure, you might prefer the signature of Vali, but it performs at roughly the same level. However, fed by the Gungnir, the Vali starts to significantly pull away from the Magni. If you have a Modi/Vali, when the time comes to upgrade, I'd go for a better DAC first.


----------



## rockpile6

I couldn't agree more.


----------



## tdockweiler

I spent another 6 hours last night listening to the Vali while playing games and it seems to sound worse the more I listen to it.
 Now to my ears it sounds great with the modded Q701 and doesn't change a thing. It adds NOTHING and same with the two K400s I have.
 To me it's not good really with the HD-650 and holds it back majorly compared to the Magni, Micro and O2. The HD-650 and DJ100 are the two headphones where the Vali adds in it's own colorations, which make them sound worse.
  
 First tried docked Ipod Touch 2G to Vali and HD-650.
 Sounded muffled/congested and closed in. Lack of detail and sound clarity.
  
 I got the same results with my DJ100. Closed in congested sound and not clear at all. Not smooth and sloppy bass.
  
 It's as if I can't even hear my Ipod Touch 2G. It's normally crystal clear sounding, but the Vali is crapping up it's good sound. 100% not the Ipod Touch's fault so don't even say it.
  
 I switched to the Q701 and K400. PERFECT! Nothing added at all. What the...??
  
 I then try my Denon 2190 CD player which has two Wolfson WM8740 DAC chips. Much better! Soundstage is a little bigger and I think this is the trick.
 The problem is that the mids are so thick that it obscures detail and makes everything abnormally smooth. Sometimes it's nice, but mostly not. I would say with this setup I heard this "tubey" sound.
 The DAC has some warmth too. Listened to this setup for 1 1/2 hours and liked it but sounded quite colored.
  
 Vali and Modi is probably comparable to the Denon 2190 but less warmth in total.
  
 Vali and Headroom Micro DAC sound the best easily. It uses the CS4398 chipset and seems pretty uncolored without any warmth at all. Vali adds in it's own flavor and I can't hear how good this DAC is.
  
 Basically right now with everything I attach to the Vali it sounds like a Vali. I can't hear much difference, which is similar to the E9. It's the last amp i'd use to hear changes in my sources.
  
 Loving it with the Q701 but with that it doesn't add anything and sounds dead neutral/transparent with that. It'd be interesting to try it with a DT-880 and see what happens there.
  
 Right now it's not an amp i'd suggest for someone starting out or that wants a good all-rounder. IMO is more like a cheap toy to play with. I love it with the modded Q701 so that's good enough for me.
  
 I'm listening to "Light Years" from Pearl Jam and it's really muffled and the bass is sort of farty sounding on the HD-650. Q701 is crystal clear on the Vali but the HD-650 sounds really veiled.
  
 I think one of the problems is that the soundstage of the Vali (not from my sources) is kind of very compressed. This doesn't help the HD-650.
  
 I imagine it will be a great match for anything that doesn't have a closed in soundstage that is too bassy or warm.
  
 Now the question is why it seems so uncolored with the modded Q701 but much worse with the HD-650? With the Q701 it's about as good as my main setup and I feel as if I can HEAR my sources unlike with the HD-650/DJ100 and Vali.
  
 EDIT: BTW just because I don't like the HD-650 with the Vali doesn't mean I hate the amp. I'll use it in my bedroom for just the Q701. I actually would like to see how the DT-880 does with the Vali. My bet is that it doesn't add anything to that (no extra warmth) just like with the Q701. I want to try a SR-60 on it too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know it might be noisy.
  
 EDIT2: I was just listening to a really trebly song and it actually sounded crystal clear with the Vali and 650. On songs where there is bass, the sound with the HD-650 can get more "hazy" and the sound (and clarity) takes a nose dive. I think the bass is just not very well controlled and a bit sloppy. Nothing too terrible. Maybe this is why I don't like it with the HD-650. Recordings with any kind of warmth feel as if they have a double whammy of warmth on the Vali.
  
 You can hear the same things the Vali is doing to the HD-650 on the DJ100 w/M50 pads, but even more magnified. Just basically loose farty bass and a very closed in soundstage and lacking in sound clarity. The Vali actually isn't too noisy with the 38ohm DJ100. Sounds like a low mid emphasis coming form the Vali. HD-650 and DJ100 don't need this really. Strangely enough the 38ohm DJ100 sounds better from the Vali than the HD-650.


----------



## eke2k6

matttcg said:


> *I've heard the crack many times. It's certainly better than the Vali IMO*. But still, the Vali sounds good with hd600/650. In fact the hd650 is the best match for me. The Vali does not pair well with the he500 and ma900 for me.
> 
> kstuart states that he perceives a shift towards more sparkle and clarity after burn in. I'm hearing a bit too much sparkle in the treble pre-burn in. With more sparkle after burn in this would be a real issue for me. The he500 are just too bright and sibilant with the Vali. The ma900 is much too noisy.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks a lot! Crack it is then.


----------



## Transformatron

eke2k6 said:


> Thanks a lot! Crack it is then.


 
 NOOOOOOO!!!!! Drugs are bad!


----------



## eke2k6

transformatron said:


> NOOOOOOO!!!!! Drugs are bad!


 
  
 It's ok. I already did my mandatory drug test for the semester.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

eke2k6 said:


> transformatron said:
> 
> 
> > NOOOOOOO!!!!! Drugs are bad!
> ...


 

 And that gentlemen is how you do it.


----------



## purrin

Let the tubes warm up and the HE-500 isn't so bright with the Vali. Still, I wouldn't consider the Vali a dark, laid-back, or overly warm sounding amp. And I actually prefer the HE-500 to be on the brighter side than dark. The HE-500 does measure with a mid-treble peak. I've tended to use slight EQ -3db at 10k. I'm not afraid to use EQ, so "tonal matching" between gear isn't a big deal for me. I do have an alternative setup for the HE-500 - mainly out of the Mjolnir - and then from the Mjolnir into a speaker power amp. But that's aiming for a different set of priorities: speed, control, precision, etc. The HE-500 from the Vali is the give me goose-bumps setup.


----------



## FlySweep

eke2k6 said:


> I was wondering if I could get some help.
> 
> From my perspective, the only headphone I see that will be an endgame for me is the SR-009/BHSE combo. I won't be able to afford it for another couple of years, so I was thinking of reacquiring a HD600 and a Bottlehead Crack. I heard the Crack is possibly _the _endgame amp for the HD600. However, it's a DIY project, and has a long waitlist.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I do, Eke.. I've had the Vali for a number of days now.. and been quietly comparing the HE-500/HD600 off the Project Ember//BH Crack (respectively) vs both phones off the Vali.  My Vali doesn't have a whole lot of hours on it, which is why I've held off from commenting much.. but I will soon.
  
 So far, I'd say the HD600/Vali combo is very comparable to the HD600/Crack combo in terms of sound.. especially when it comes detail retrieval & tonal balance.  I'm in the camp that finds a BH Crack to be an end game type of amp for the HD600.  Right now, outside of the Crack, I think the Vali is a no brainer for the HD600... _no_ _brainer_.  It possesses the same 'addicting' qualities that the Crack offers when used with high impedance phones, among other things.
  
 *any references to the Crack in this post imply a _speedballed_ Crack, btw.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

+1


----------



## DaveUpton

flysweep said:


> I do, Eke.. I've had the Vali for a number of days now.. and been quietly comparing the HE-500/HD600 off the Project Ember//BH Crack (respectively) vs both phones off the Vali.  My Vali doesn't have a whole lot of hours on it, which is why I've held off from commenting much.. but I will soon.
> 
> So far, I'd say the HD600/Vali combo is very comparable to the HD600/Crack combo in terms of sound.. especially when it comes detail retrieval & tonal balance.  I'm in the camp that finds a BH Crack to be an end game type of amp for the HD600.  Right now, outside of the Crack, I think the Vali is a no brainer for the HD600... _no_ _brainer_.  It possesses the same 'addicting' qualities that the Crack offers when used with high impedance phones, among other things.
> 
> *any references to the Crack in this post imply a _speedballed_ Crack, btw.


 
 How about Vali vs Ember (granted Ember can sound like anything really)  - how does it stack up?


----------



## K.T.

flysweep said:


> So far, I'd say the HD600/Vali combo is very comparable to the HD600/Crack combo in terms of sound... I think the Vali is a no brainer for the HD600... _no_ _brainer_.


 
  


purrin said:


> The HE-500 from the Vali is the give me goose-bumps setup.


 
  
  
 This is fantastic news. As an owner of both phones, I am truly happy to hear this. Can't wait for my Vali to arrive!


----------



## eke2k6

flysweep said:


> I do, Eke.. I've had the Vali for a number of days now.. and been quietly comparing the HE-500/HD600 off the Project Ember//BH Crack (respectively) vs both phones off the Vali.  My Vali doesn't have a whole lot of hours on it, which is why I've held off from commenting much.. but I will soon.
> 
> So far, I'd say the HD600/Vali combo is very comparable to the HD600/Crack combo in terms of sound.. especially when it comes detail retrieval & tonal balance.  I'm in the camp that finds a BH Crack to be an end game type of amp for the HD600.  Right now, outside of the Crack, I think the Vali is a no brainer for the HD600... _no_ _brainer_.  It possesses the same 'addicting' qualities that the Crack offers when used with high impedance phones, among other things.
> 
> *any references to the Crack in this post imply a _speedballed_ Crack, btw.


 
  
 Once again I want to hug you. You've saved me at least $160.
  
 If only the Vali looked as sexy as the Crack.


----------



## K.T.

It may have been asked before, but I take it the Vali is a better performing amp than the HiFiMan EF2a?
  
 I know nothing of the the EF2a, but see that it's a tube amp in the under $200 range.


----------



## wje

tdockweiler said:


> I spent another 6 hours last night listening to the Vali while playing games and it seems to sound worse the more I listen to it.
> Now to my ears it sounds great with the modded Q701 and doesn't change a thing. It adds NOTHING and same with the two K400s I have.
> To me it's not good really with the HD-650 and holds it back majorly compared to the Magni, Micro and O2. The HD-650 and DJ100 are the two headphones where the Vali adds in it's own colorations, which make them sound worse.
> 
> ...


 
  
Seems like a bit of an "eye opener" from your live testing conditions.  For now, I'll put my wallet carefully back into my pocket.
  
 I currently have the Schiit Vali in my position and am working through some testing.  Pretty nice sounding so far, and I own the Asgard I too.


----------



## purrin

flysweep said:


> So far, I'd say the HD600/Vali combo is very comparable to the HD600/Crack combo in terms of sound.. especially when it comes detail retrieval & tonal balance.  I'm in the camp that finds a BH Crack to be an end game type of amp for the HD600.  Right now, outside of the Crack, I think the Vali is a no brainer for the HD600... _no_ _brainer_.  It possesses the same 'addicting' qualities that the Crack offers when used with high impedance phones, among other things.


 
  
 That's interesting. I like the Crack a lot with the HD650/600s (I too consider that combo a suitable end-game setup). Honestly, I wasn't sure if the Vali would hold it's own again the Crack (HD600/650) without doing a direct comparison myself.


----------



## kstuart

purrin said:


> flysweep said:
> 
> 
> > So far, I'd say the HD600/Vali combo is very comparable to the HD600/Crack combo in terms of sound.. especially when it comes detail retrieval & tonal balance.  I'm in the camp that finds a BH Crack to be an end game type of amp for the HD600.  Right now, outside of the Crack, I think the Vali is a no brainer for the HD600... _no_ _brainer_.  It possesses the same 'addicting' qualities that the Crack offers when used with high impedance phones, among other things.
> ...


 

 I have not heard the Crack (since I don't have HD600 or 650), but I know some guys who like it a lot and they are exactly the sort of listeners who would notice the relatively poor timbre of the Vali.  I'm gathering that the majority of readers of a thread about $119 amps don't listen to music with much variety of instruments, so they would not notice.
  
 There is also a tendency for the mind to notice the excellent level of detail, and then subconsciously assume that everything else must be equally great, since detail is usually an indication of quality.


----------



## AladdinSane

Is it too early to ask for the Vali in black?


----------



## Maxvla

It's not too early, you simply won't ever get one.


----------



## FlySweep

purrin said:


> That's interesting. I like the Crack a lot with the HD650/600s (I too consider that combo a suitable end-game setup). Honestly, I wasn't sure if the Vali would hold it's own again the Crack (HD600/650) without doing a direct comparison myself.


 
  
 IME so far, the Vali certainly holds its own with the Crack.. but I still feel a -speedballed- Crack is the more technically capable amp (_when paired with the HD600_).  I think it's important to consider the differences in topology between the two amps, as well.. i.e. hybrid vs OTL.  The hybrid is, naturally, going to be a little brighter.. since the OTL's higher OI does impact the HD600's bass and treble response.  I'm trying my best to take that into account.
  
 The larger soundstage is the most notable difference between the Vali & my BH Crack.  The Crack simply offers more space in every direction.  It layers and separates better, too.  The Vali is no slouch as it makes use if its (comparatively smaller) soundstage impressively well.  I'm enamored with the Vali's tonal qualities.. again, it's very reminiscent of the speedballed Crack (which, IMO, tends to take the BH amp in a stereotypically 'solid-state'-ish direction).. and what makes both amps so very fun (and addictive) to use with the HD600.. a phone which I find to have a slightly dry character.  The Vali's solid state output seems _really_ well done.  No etch or hardness to speak of.  The amp is smooth.. but resolves _mightily_... especially for $120.  If I had to level some criticism, where the Vali comes up short is control.. it could afford to be a little tighter in the mid- to lower-mid bass.  I've clocked approx. 30 hours on the Vali, so we'll see if this changes.
  
 BTW, I'm using the CDAC+ for my DAC (it's an ODAC that runs off a 5v wall wart/power supply and has a galvanically isolated USB input).  Going to toss the Vio V800 into the mix to see how the Vali scales.. and I anticipate getting an uber Bifrost (again) some time (still kicking myself for selling it the first time I had it.. that's one of the dumber moves I've made in this hobby).
  
 If the Vali is a good approximation of the house sound that EC amps possess.  I can see the intrigue.. lord help my wallet, I want an S7... _now_.


----------



## Radio_head

The Uncanny Vali​  
 Schiit Audio is a company.  They are well known in the audiophile world.  They make many products from headphone amps to DACs.  The newest of these products is the Vali.  It is a hybrid tube amp for only $120.  This is a new low for Schiit.  Their previous offerings with tubes were not this cheap.  This should make the headphone world tremble.  Already in the first few days it is clear that Schiit has another hit on their hands.  Designed by Jason Stoddard of Sumiko fame, the Vali is an all-out-assault on what a tube amp sounds like and costs.  Like all Schiit products, the Vali is made in America.  The Vali was introduced secretly earlier this year.  Only recently with the reviews of respected beta testers like Jude Mansilla and Warren Pchi has word leaked out of just how good this little amp is.
  
Intelligint Design​  
 The Vali has tubes.  It has two RCA inputs and a 1/4" jack so it can also be used as a headphone amp.  On the front is a volume knob, this is to make the noises louder or softer with the push of a button.  On the back is a switch to turn the amp on _or_ off, putting the power in the hands of the user.  The tubes in the vali are not just decorations.  If they were they would be on the outside.  They are part of the circuit and provide voltage gain.  This is engineer-talk for providing voltage gain.  The amp is Class AB.  Here are some numbers to consider:
  
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 5Hz-100KHz, -3dB
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 650mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 550mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 220mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 115mW RMS per channel
THD: <0.4%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS
IMD: <0.45%, CCIR
SNR: >93db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Crosstalk: >-70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz
Output Impedance: 6.5 ohms
Gain: 4 (12db)
  
 As you can see, the Vali is not messing around, as evidenced by some numbers that are very real.  And meaningful also.
  
Hooked on Microphonics​  
 Is there a downside to all these good things?  The numbers seem too good to be true!  There must be a catch.  Well, there are microphonics to consider.  Microphonics are like the high pitched noises you regularly hear in your head that prevent you from thinking straight and make you do bad things, only they come from a source you can identify.  How big a deal are microphonics?  To find out, I asked the average "man on the street" if they were worried about microphonics or if they thought it was a non-issue.  Most people ignored me, but one man dressed as Jesus in a diaper stated in no uncertain terms that "aliens kidnapped his baby and that's where applesauce comes from."  Strong words indeed, and something that should make Schiit think twice before downplaying microphonics in the future.
  
Competition​  
 The Vali has a lot of competition.  It is part of the $119-6500 price range which has many great products. Here are some comparisons:
  
Vs the Woo WA5:
  
 I know what you are thinking - it is ridiculous to compare the two when the Vali is Schiit's newest offering while the WA5 has been eclipsed by the 234.  So you should keep that in mind.  The Vali has a very neutral sound while also being very lively.  In contrast, the Woo WA5 is accurate but fun, this may be due to the WE 300B's.  The Vali has great punch whereas the Woo has more slam.  I'd recommend the Woo if you like the sound of live music but the Vali if you want to recreate sound _as if _you were _in _the concert hall.
  
Vs The Cavalli LG:
  
 The LG has also been usurped by the LAu so this may also not be fair.  Both amps are hybrids, so you would expect them to sound the same.  But they do not. The Vali has weight while the LG has heft.  With the Vali you feel like you are right there while the LG has presence and immediacy. The LG is the winner for those who like Classical or folk music while the Vali shines with analog instruments.
  
Vs the Mythical Moth 6B4G:
  
 There is only one of this amp in existence and I own it.  The 6B4G is somewhere in between a PX4 and a 2A3.  This amp is an OTL and sounds incredible.  You'd think the Vali couldn't compete!  But it holds its own.  The 6B4G is sweet and spacious but the Vali is saccharine and has great soundstage.  The 6B4G excels with soft passages where the Vali has nuance to pick up microdetails (or "krill.")  The Moth is clearly for dubstep connesewers while the Vali is for those who want to experience music post-lobotomy. 
  
Vs ECP DSHA-1:
  
 The DSHA one is also a very rare amp.  Very few were ever made and they will be highly sought after.  It is solid state but has a character all its own.  Once again, the Vali is no slouch.  The DSHA sounds like butter while the Vali sounds like I can't believe its not butter.  The DSHA has a wonderful purity of tone while the Vali has me saying "shiver me timbre."  The DSHA sounds like the best of solid state and tube amps brought together while the Vali has all the hallmarks of a great hybrid design.  The ECP is for music lovers while the Vali is for those who appreciate it.
  
Are you a Vali Girl?​  
 So who is the Vali for?  Well, here's who it isn't for:
  

Terrorists 
The Deaf
  
 So it is important to make sure the Vali is for you and your system.
  
 Conclusions
  
 The Vali is a very good amp.  Not just at its price, but at other prices too.  The price could easily be different, and it would still be released.  It is clear from comparisons that the Vali has the goods.  Jason, Mike, and Sankar should all be proud of this product.  It is clear they worked hard and put thought into the amp.  My prediction is it will sell well and see many acclaims from numerous and such as.  I may not be Notre Dames, but I don't need to be a seer to see that this amp will be popular.  I'd like to thank Jason for providing the review sample and all future review samples he will provide me for long evaluation periods.


----------



## ethan7000

flysweep said:


> IME so far, the Vali certainly holds its own with the Crack.. but I still feel a -speedballed- Crack is the more technically capable amp (_when paired with the HD600_).  I think it's important to consider the differences in topology between the two amps, as well.. i.e. hybrid vs OTL.  The hybrid is, naturally, going to be a little brighter.. since the OTL's higher OI does impact the HD600's bass and treble response.  I'm trying my best to take that into account.
> 
> The larger soundstage is the most notable difference between the Vali & my BH Crack.  The Crack simply offers more space in every direction.  It layers and separates better, too.  The Vali is no slouch as it makes use if its (comparatively smaller) soundstage impressively well.  I'm enamored with the Vali's tonal qualities.. again, it's very reminiscent of the speedballed Crack (which, IMO, tends to take the BH amp in a stereotypically 'solid-state'-ish direction).. and what makes both amps so very fun (and addictive) to use with the HD600.. a phone which I find to have a slightly dry character.  The Vali's solid state output seems _really_ well done.  No etch or hardness to speak of.  The amp is smooth.. but resolves _mightily_... especially for $120.  If I had to level some criticism, where the Vali comes up short is control.. it could afford to be a little tighter in the mid- to lower-mid bass.  I've clocked approx. 30 hours on the Vali, so we'll see if this changes.
> 
> ...


 
 How does the Ember compare to the other amps?


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *tdockweiler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Basically right now with everything I attach to the Vali it sounds like a Vali.


 
 This is the same quality I am talking about.
  
 I'll speculate that this might be the sort of quality that is often mentioned about tubes - that there is a "tube sound" because tubes emphasize certain harmonics.  It could be that the 6088 does this even more than the tubes usually used in audio, like 12AX7, and that is why all the timbres sound alike.
  
_(Note that this is relative to other amps, obviously Vali does reproduce some instrumental timbre._)


----------



## nilov

Anybody try Vali with He-6?
 Or no chance for drive this headphones with Vali?


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

radio_head said:


> The Uncanny Vali​
> Schiit Audio is a company.  They are well known in the audiophile world.  They make many products from headphone amps to DACs.  The newest of these products is the Vali.  It is a hybrid tube amp for only $120.  This is a new low for Schiit.  Their previous offerings with tubes were not this cheap.  This should make the headphone world tremble.  Already in the first few days it is clear that Schiit has another hit on their hands.  Designed by Jason Stoddard of Sumiko fame, the Vali is an all-out-assault on what a tube amp sounds like and costs.  Like all Schiit products, the Vali is made in America.  The Vali was introduced secretly earlier this year.  Only recently with the reviews of respected beta testers like Jude Mansilla and Warren Pchi has word leaked out of just how good this little amp is.
> 
> Intelligint Design​
> ...



I think, you sir, have just won Head-Fi. 
1,000,000/10 rolling-on-the-floor laughing
Here, take my money you're the next John Cleese


----------



## BournePerfect

aladdinsane said:


> Is it too early to ask for the Vali in black?


 
  
 Eat a few Oreos, and wait a few hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 -Daniel


----------



## ravager

Out of the box, and while waiting for delivery of my HD650s, with trepidation I plugged in my SR325is and waited to be underwhelmed. I'm still waiting. There is no question that the Grados sound better with Vali than Magni--and markedly so. The first song I played was My Bloody Valentine's 'she found now', the opener from the terrific MBV album released this year, from Mac Mini at 24/96 to Modi and I can't believe the difference. I was afraid that the noise floor would be overwhelming with the low impedance 325s, but that is simply not the case. And there is more punch in the bass, better midrange, and tamed highs. I would have to say I am thrilled with this purchase.
  
 Thanks, purrin, for mounting my excitement a couple of months ago, and for giving what seemed like unreasonable expectations, when in reality they were justified. This guy hits well above its weight class.


----------



## purrin

kstuart said:


> This is the same quality I am talking about.
> 
> I'll speculate that this might be the sort of quality that is often mentioned about tubes - that there is a "tube sound" because tubes emphasize certain harmonics.  It could be that the 6088 does this even more than the tubes usually used in audio, like 12AX7, and that is why all the timbres sound alike.


 
  
 That is essentially what I've been saying. That the Vali is slightly tubey sounding. Tubes are always going to commit sins of commission. The Vali's pencil tubes definitely have a certain euphonic sound to them. Just as the 300B, 2A3, 45, 6SN7, EL34, 6922, 12AX7, 5842, etc. all have a certain characteristic sound. Some tubes types leave a stronger imprint than others. I would say the 6088 is one of them.


----------



## purrin

nilov said:


> Anybody try Vali with He-6?
> Or no chance for drive this headphones with Vali?


 
  
 I can borrow an HE-5 (very similar and I believe probably even less efficient than the HE-6), try it out, and report back? Might take me a few days to get my hands on one. Do you wish me to proceed?
  


ravager said:


> Out of the box, and while waiting for delivery of my HD650s, with trepidation I plugged in my SR325is and waited to be underwhelmed. I'm still waiting. There is no question that the Grados sound better with Vali than Magni--and markedly so. The first song I played was My Bloody Valentine's 'she found now', the opener from the terrific MBV album released this year, from Mac Mini at 24/96 to Modi and I can't believe the difference. I was afraid that the noise floor would be overwhelming with the low impedance 325s, but that is simply not the case. And there is more punch in the bass, better midrange, and tamed highs. I would have to say I am thrilled with this purchase.
> 
> Thanks, purrin, for mounting my excitement a couple of months ago, and for giving what seemed like unreasonable expectations, when in reality they were justified. This guy hits well above its weight class.


 
  
 y/w. No noise issues for you? I had some noise issues with my HF-2, so I didn't recommend Grados.


----------



## darinf

Just for kicks I had a Nano Patch+, passive attenuator, around and thought I might try that with some IEM/CIEM's and the Vali.
  
 The low impedance/high sensitivity IEM/CIEM's were totally unusable with the Vali due to the high levels of noise.
  
 Once I put the Nano Patch+ in between the output of the Vali and my IEM's, the IEM's were certainly useable. No more noise, less ringing, etc. I have to listen more to see how much the Nano Patch affects the sound though. I think maybe a fixed attenuation cable might sound better than going through a pot. With the Noble 6 IEM prototypes I have, I had to set the attenuation to around -5dB, but I have no idea how accurate the pot and markings on the Nano Patch are.
  
 Anyway, a passive attenuator or an attenuation cable might be an option for those of you who want to use low impedance IEMs or headphones with the Vali.


----------



## Makiah S

darinf said:


> Just for kicks I had a Nano Patch+, passive attenuator, around and thought I might try that with some IEM/CIEM's and the Vali.
> 
> The low impedance/high sensitivity IEM/CIEM's were totally unusable with the Vali due to the high levels of noise.
> 
> ...


 
 attenuation cable... WHO the heck sells these things? I've ONLY found one person on eBay and another member here in the states who's got a 75ohm one... but outside these second hand sources... where do these originate!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

mshenay said:


> attenuation cable... WHO the heck sells these things? I've ONLY found one person on eBay and another member here in the states who's got a 75ohm one... but outside these second hand sources... where do these originate!


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/400601021200?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
 ^ Supposedly these are Etymotic OEMs, you can see them being sold for $25-$29 by another USA seller on Ebay. I've got one coming in tomorrow.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/271193304830?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
 ^ I purchased one of these and they came very quickly from China (via HK EMS).

 Both add 75ohm load on top of your headphones. There's another seller that sells multiple loads, from 50 to 300ohms. I believe if I go the EMOTIVA A-100 route, that's what's in line between the phones and amp. Or build a ladder-style attenuator box.


----------



## darinf

mshenay said:


> attenuation cable... WHO the heck sells these things? I've ONLY found one person on eBay and another member here in the states who's got a 75ohm one... but outside these second hand sources... where do these originate!


 
http://microphonemadness.com/categories/attentuator_cables.html
http://www.core-sound.com/attenuator-cables/6.php
Harrison Labs 6 dB RCA Line Level Attenuator Pair
Sescom iPhone / iPod / iPad TRRS to 25dB 3.5mm Line Level and 3.5mm Monitor Jack-by-Sescom - These types of cables to attenuate from line level to mic level are all -25dB which is probably way too much attenuation though.
  
 Based on my unscientific test with my Nano Patch, I am guessing -5dB to -10dB attenuation is about right for 30 ohm IEM's.


----------



## Makiah S

soundsgoodtome said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400601021200?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ^ Supposedly these are Etymotic OEMs, you can see them being sold for $25-$29 by another USA seller on Ebay. I've got one coming in tomorrow.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271193304830?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ...


 
  
  


darinf said:


> http://microphonemadness.com/categories/attentuator_cables.html
> http://www.core-sound.com/attenuator-cables/6.php
> Harrison Labs 6 dB RCA Line Level Attenuator Pair
> Sescom iPhone / iPod / iPad TRRS to 25dB 3.5mm Line Level and 3.5mm Monitor Jack-by-Sescom - These types of cables to attenuate from line level to mic level are all -25dB which is probably way too much attenuation though.
> ...


 
 Me Gusta Guys!  I might try the Vali and one of those Attenuators before I balance my W1000x. Sadly the NFb10es2 is sounding to cold for the W1000x again. She sounds a touch sterile again... nice intimate upper mids, good bass but those low mids seems to suffer... once again I feel I need a nice tube for them :3 
  
 That said, the Vali is at a great price!


----------



## darinf

soundsgoodtome said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400601021200?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ^ Supposedly these are Etymotic OEMs, you can see them being sold for $25-$29 by another USA seller on Ebay. I've got one coming in tomorrow.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271193304830?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ...


 
 How is the cable from China? Does it color the sound at all?
  
 Why order the other one from the US? To try it because it's cheaper and from the US?
  
 I think the pot on the Nano Patch might affect the sound, but I am guessing these cables might not.
  
 Anyone else have experience with these attenuators?
  
 Once you search for an Etymotic ER4P to ER4S adapter, other options appear on EBay and elsewhere which vary in price:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XER4P+to+ER4S&_nkw=ER4P+to+ER4S&_sacat=0&_from=R40


----------



## jexby

purrin said:


> Let the tubes warm up and the HE-500 isn't so bright with the Vali. Still, I wouldn't consider the Vali a dark, laid-back, or overly warm sounding amp. And I actually prefer the HE-500 to be on the brighter side than dark. The HE-500 does measure with a mid-treble peak. I've tended to use slight EQ -3db at 10k. I'm not afraid to use EQ, so "tonal matching" between gear isn't a big deal for me. I do have an alternative setup for the HE-500 - mainly out of the Mjolnir - and then from the Mjolnir into a speaker power amp. But that's aiming for a different set of priorities: speed, control, precision, etc. The HE-500 from the Vali is the give me goose-bumps setup.


 
  
 at the risk of beating the dead Vali horse, I only want to remind our fellow listeners that your HE-500 + Vali raves are appreciated, but not matched by all.
  
 I do prefer my HE-500 with the Lyr with "good tubes" (Ediswan, RTC) over the Vali.  (Lyr showed improved soundstage, bass clarity, instrument separation)
 sure, in that config is:  $449 Lyr + $160 tubes vs. $119 vali.
  
 is the Lyr 5X better in sound quality over the Vali?  I'd say no.
 but I really wish Purrin would have thrown out those god awful Lyr JJ tubes on Day 1.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

darinf said:


> How is the cable from China? Does it color the sound at all?
> 
> Why order the other one from the US? To try it because it's cheaper and from the US?
> 
> ...


 


 The cable from China (2nd link on my post) doesn't color the sound but it does bring down the treble by a few DB, nothing drastic. Hopefully 'coloring' the sound doesn't mean decreasing the treble? (clarification please) This is favorable on a bright headphone like my SRH1440, which is also a low impedance/high efficiency phone. I originally intended to use it with my Yulong D100 and IEMs to be able to move the POT to a higher position but I found it changes the treble on the MDR-7550 and RE400s more than to my liking. Keep in mind that those two IEMS have their treble a few DBs below the rest of the range, moreso on the RE400s. It seems the sound stays true more-so on the full sized HPs, not sure why.

 I've yet to try it on the DT880s or HE400, which don't need attenuation for my setup. Maybe I'll try it on the HA-S500 later tonight.

 As for ordering the second set, I wanted something to compare the Chinese ones to. They're marketed for Etymotic and UE (two different listings on Ebay but they look identical even in picture, one being $29 the other $6) IEMS so I figured maybe those might work better. We'll see.


----------



## darinf

soundsgoodtome said:


> The cable from China (2nd link on my post) doesn't color the sound but it does bring down the treble by a few DB, nothing drastic. Hopefully 'coloring' the sound doesn't mean decreasing the treble? (clarification please) This is favorable on a bright headphone like my SRH1440, which is also a low impedance/high efficiency phone.


 
 By "color" the sound I mean change the sound in any way. I would rather not use anything that changes say the frequency response or imaging, etc. To me, decreasing the treble is not a good thing for an attenuator or cable.
  
 I'll be interested to hear from you if the $6 Ebay adapter changes the sound at all.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

darinf said:


> By "color" the sound I mean change the sound in any way. I would rather not use anything that changes say the frequency response or imaging, etc. To me, decreasing the treble is not a good thing for an attenuator or cable.
> 
> I'll be interested to hear from you if the $6 Ebay adapter changes the sound at all.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I'll give it an extended listen and let you know. It could just be an overall attenuated sound that I didn't increase to match volume level when I tested it. As of now I'm using a better matched amp for my IEMs while using the DAC/Line Out on the D100 so I haven't really given it it's full deserving listen.

 I'll let you know on the $6 adapters as well.


----------



## FlySweep

daveupton said:


> How about Vali vs Ember (granted Ember can sound like anything really)  - how does it stack up?


 
  
 Like you said, the Ember is "chameleon-like" in its ability to let a tube's sound through (and add little else).  I've been trying to find what tube in my collection best approximates the Vali's sound (to make comparisons between the amps a little more uniform).. and it's proving difficult.  I prefer to use the Ember with orthos (HE-500, Paradox, etc.) over my favorite high impedance dynamics (HD600, HD800, etc).  BTW.. running the HD600 off a speaker amp (with a resistor network between the amp and headphone) is truly wonderful.. but that's OT.
  
 With the HE-500, the Ember vs Vali is a real toss up.  I'm using some pretty nice tubes with the Ember (early 60s, USA-made Amperex "PQ" 6DJ8 among others).  Vs the Vali, the Ember is a little more multi-dimensional as far as soundstage goes.. with the HE-500 driven off the Ember, it's bass is punchier & better controlled vs the Vali.  The Vali is more transparent and arguably more detailed, though (to what degree varies based on the tube used in the Ember).
  
 Purrin mentioned letting the Vali 'warm up' for a while before evaluating.. I wholeheartedly agree with this.  The Vali just seems to generally sound 'better' after it's been powered on for a good 20 to 30 minutes.. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is (heck, toss placebo into this, if you wish).. but the Vali seems to sound more effortless and the bass, in particular, sounds better controlled after a brief 'warm up' period.
  


kstuart said:


> I have not heard the Crack (since I don't have HD600 or 650), but I know some guys who like it a lot and they are exactly the sort of listeners who would notice the relatively poor timbre of the Vali.  I'm gathering that the majority of readers of a thread about $119 amps don't listen to music with much variety of instruments, so they would not notice.


 
  
 Interesting.. I don't find the Vali to have 'poor' timbre.. even compared to my (speedballed) Crack.. but I'll keep listening and observing.


----------



## rreifsn

This is an update to a post I made on Saturday concerning an issue I noticed with the Vali I had just received.  As it turns out my unit has a continuous strong ring in the right channel that develops slowly (within 10 minutes) after the amp is turned on.  This occurs with the Vali isolated from vibrations and not touched in anyway.  When I first turn it on it is dead quiet but the ringing starts and builds in intensity over time.  The ringing can be cleared by turning the amp off and on again but it reoccurs.  This happens to the right channel only.  Unfortunately, the ringing is pretty loud and is very distracting.
  
 My set up is PC, Uber Bifrost, Vali to HE400/HD600 phones.  I have tested this over the past few days and confirmed that it is a reoccurring problem.  I have done everything I can to isolate the amp from vibrations but the issue persists.  I understand that tube amps have inherent microphonic issues but this seems to be a problem beyond that. 
  
 To Schiit's credit they were terrific about handling this.  As soon as I contacted them by email they responded with a prepaid shipping label and sent out a new amp.  I love the sound of the Vali especially with my HE400s.  My principal amp is the Asgard 1 and the Vali adds so much more life to the music I've been able to listen to so far.  The word fun has been tossed about a lot and I have to agree with it.  The Vali is just flat out fun to listen to.
  
 With that said, I believe the issue I've been having is very rare and not indicative of the design or general build quality of the Vali.  I can't wait to get my replacement unit and I fully expect it to perform flawlessly.  Once again, thanks to Schiit for great customer service.


----------



## Makiah S

rreifsn said:


> Once again, thanks to Schiit for great customer service.


 
 SO let's assume the Vali sounds just as good as the Bravo  V2, Ocean, the Project Ember and the Indeed G3
  
 my question is, will any of those company match Schiit's service? I have strong doubts, hence. Still super stocked to get this amp! I like what's Schiit's doing realeasing this amp, and as a company I"m always happy to hear they put their customers first [wish they'd offer more black amps <3] but that aside. I'm egar to support them :3, good customer service is a heck of a lot better than a black chasis imo [boy it'd be great to have both though xD] 
  
 Again my expectations of this amp, are not so much in how it sounds but more so it's build quality, and the quality of the company behind it :3 
  
 That and I'm sure it sounds a little better than the 3 amps I listed above, all of can get expensive when you start rolling tubes into them! For a $100 Hybrid Tube... I kinda like the idea of one and DONE


----------



## Maxvla

@ FlySweep

It's standard practice to let a tube amp warm up (any amp really, but especially tube) before judging it.


----------



## TheGame

mshenay said:


> my question is, will any of those company match Schiit's service? I have strong doubts, hence. Still super stocked to get this amp! I like what's Schiit's doing realeasing this amp, and as a company I"m always happy to hear they put their customers first [wish they'd offer more black amps <3] but that aside. I'm egar to support them :3, good customer service is a heck of a lot better than a black chasis imo [boy it'd be great to have both though xD]
> 
> Again my expectations of this amp, are not so much in how it sounds but more so it's build quality, and the quality of the company behind it :3


 
 +1


----------



## kstuart

flysweep said:


> Purrin mentioned letting the Vali 'warm up' for a while before evaluating.. I wholeheartedly agree with this.  The Vali just seems to generally sound 'better' after it's been powered on for a good 20 to 30 minutes.. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is (heck, toss placebo into this, if you wish).. but the Vali seems to sound more effortless and the bass, in particular, sounds better controlled after a brief 'warm up' period.


 
 There are some reasonable electronics explanation for this.  Even in a solid state amp, it is common knowledge that it takes 5 minutes for the "bias" circuit to stabilize.  A tube has much more heat and so more heat-related effects.
  
 Thus a designer will adjust values in the circuit only after the hand built prototype is warmed up, so he can be sure that the values of parts will then stay the same throughout most of the listening session.
  
 So, solid state gear should warm up for 5 minutes, and tube gear for, as you say, 20-30 minutes.


----------



## bearFNF

Ordered Sunday morning and shipped Tuesday, that's fast as schiit!!!


----------



## Maxvla

kstuart said:


> There are some reasonable electronics explanation for this.  Even in a solid state amp, it is common knowledge that it takes 5 minutes for the "bias" circuit to stabilize.  A tube has much more heat and so more heat-related effects.
> 
> Thus a designer will adjust values in the circuit only after the hand built prototype is warmed up, so he can be sure that the values of parts will then stay the same throughout most of the listening session.
> 
> So, solid state gear should warm up for 5 minutes, and tube gear for, as you say, 20-30 minutes.



A solid state amp can be just as hot as the hottest tube amps, it's just that tubes seem to be more vulnerable to it's effects.


----------



## purrin

flysweep said:


> Purrin mentioned letting the Vali 'warm up' for a while before evaluating.. I wholeheartedly agree with this.


 
  
 Thermionic emission of the filament. Filament takes time to heat up to release electrons which travel to the plate. The curve is asymptotic. Once the filament heats up and electrons are more willing to fly off of it, we get better control, more effortless, fuller sound, etc. Definitely not BS or placebo. Vali is thin, bright, sharp and grainy while cold. The good thing about about tubes is that this behavior will be very consistent throughout the working life of the tube.
  
 Some solid-state gear requires several hours to days to stabilize - should never be turned off. I keep my DACs (solid-state) on, or leave them on for at least two days before I do any any comparisons.


----------



## lord_tris

Ordered mine last night at nine eastern time and got my shipping 3 hours ago, Thats super fast schiit, i may have my schiit by this weekend.


----------



## AxelCloris

lord_tris said:


> Ordered mine last night at nine eastern time and got my shipping 3 hours ago, Thats super fast schiit, i may have my schiit by this weekend.


 
  
 Which method did you choose? Fedex took me longer than USPS would have by a factor of 2. Four days through Fedex ground vs two for USPS.


----------



## lord_tris

ah fedex should be here friday or saturday i am good with that


----------



## ssrock64

I go away for a day or two, and suddenly there are 161 new posts. What's the general consensus at this point in a pairing with the AD?


----------



## TheGame

Awesome news, I own both of those cans so that is great to hear!


----------



## K.T.

Has anyone compared to a Valhalla?

I just got my Vali. Sounds great so far. Much more involving and intimate than my Magni (with HD598). I love tubes that way. There's a naturalness and atmosphere that inexpensive solid state just can't match.

I know there's been comparison with the Lyr. How about the Valhalla with fully tubed stages? I'm trying to decide whether it's worth the premium over the Vali.


----------



## TheGame

moshin29 said:


> Just received my Vali/Modi. Great combo when paired with the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro & Audio Technica ATH-M50!!


 

 Awesome news! I own both of those cans so it is great to hear that!
  
*P.S. Sorry for double post, forgot to use the "Quote" button*


----------



## TheGame

kstuart said:


> There are some reasonable electronics explanation for this.  Even in a solid state amp, it is common knowledge that it takes 5 minutes for the "bias" circuit to stabilize.  A tube has much more heat and so more heat-related effects.
> 
> Thus a designer will adjust values in the circuit only after the hand built prototype is warmed up, so he can be sure that the values of parts will then stay the same throughout most of the listening session.
> 
> So, solid state gear should warm up for 5 minutes, and tube gear for, as you say, 20-30 minutes.


 

 The Vali will be my first Tube headphone amp. So is it pretty much standard practice to allow the Vali (or any tube amp) to warm up for 20-30 minutes, meaning turning on the unit for 20-30 minutes before running a source through it to listen to it?


----------



## bearFNF

thegame said:


> The Vali will be my first Tube headphone amp. So is it pretty much standard practice to allow the Vali (or any tube amp) to warm up for 20-30 minutes, meaning turning on the unit for 20-30 minutes before running a source through it to listen to it?


 

 Depends on the amp, anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes, IME (asgard 2, taboo MKIII, magni)  for the amp to get to operating temp, but you do not have to wait that long to listen to it or running the source through it.  I typically turn my amps on when I get home and leave them on till I go to bed.


----------



## Robobandit

I caved and ordered a Vali earlier this afternoon. I got a shipping notification this afternoon.
  
 Should have my schiit in a few days


----------



## kstuart

ssrock64 said:


> I go away for a day or two, and suddenly there are 161 new posts. What's the general consensus at this point in a pairing with the AD?


 

 I don't know that there is a general consensus on the Vali at all, opinions seem to vary widely, and there is possibly some variations between individual units (impossible to verify until two units are in the same room).
  
 My opinion with the Alpha Dog is that A) the Vali doesn't have quite enough power to make the AD work at its best, B) the Vali has weak points (timbre and soundstage) that nullify big strong points of the AD.   My feeling is that when you are paying more than $300 for a headphone, you should have equipment that takes advantage of the improvements of the more expensive headphones.
  
 I do find that the Vali is a reasonable choice for the Mad Dog, and probably one of the better choices for under $200.  The Mad Dog also has a shallow soundstage, so you don't lose anything in that regard with the Vali.  The Mad Dog is more efficient and works better with less power.   The Mad Dog does have excellent timbre, so you do lose that strong point by using the Vali, but you can't get every quality right for $119.
  
 The strong points of the Vali are a high level of detail, and very quick response.
  
 Also, my guess is that the Vali will be better than the Magni for anyone who is comfortable with tubes (including microphonics issues described in detail in the previous 5-10 pages).


----------



## purrin

thegame said:


> The Vali will be my first Tube headphone amp. So is it pretty much standard practice to allow the Vali (or any tube amp) to warm up for 20-30 minutes, meaning turning on the unit for 20-30 minutes before running a source through it to listen to it?


 
  
 I just listen to tube amps when I turn them on from the get go knowing that they don't sound their best while cold.


----------



## NinjaHamster

purrin said:


> I just listen to tube amps when I turn them on from the get go knowing that they don't sound their best while cold.


 
 I wait for a few minutes for them to warm up before playing music - I assume this extends the life of the tubes ... this might be wrong, but it makes me feel better ... and the 5 minute warm up is almost "ceremonial" ... I recite no incantations, and cast no stones, but I do let the tubes warm up a little before blasting them with music ... Just like I used to warm up my muscles before sprinting, and warm up my girlfriend before ... well, uh ... I think the warm up leads to a longer relationship ...


----------



## K.T.

Yeah, this is good stuff. After a brief listen to the HD598 on the Vali, I plugged in my DT770s (250 ohm). 

I have to say, I thought the DT770s were the one glaring mistake I've made in headphone purchases; they have an exciting punchy sound, but too bright up top and somewhat unrefined. That was through the Magni, and also through my modded Berning Micro ZOTL.

Well, I'm enjoying them through the Vali as I type. Still bright on top and unrefined, but the pairing with the Vali has breathed a good deal of intimacy and finesse into the sound. They're still not my favorite phones, but I'll be reaching for these a lot more now that I've got the Vali.


----------



## TheGame

bearfnf said:


> Depends on the amp, anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes, IME (asgard 2, taboo MKIII, magni)  for the amp to get to operating temp, but you do not have to wait that long to listen to it or running the source through it.  I typically turn my amps on when I get home and leave them on till I go to bed.


 
  
 Thank you for the response and the info, I really appreciate it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





purrin said:


> I just listen to tube amps when I turn them on from the get go knowing that they don't sound their best while cold.


 
 And as always, thank you purrin for your input as well, very much appreciated as always.


----------



## ethan7000

mshenay said:


> SO let's assume the Vali sounds just as good as the Bravo  V2, Ocean, the Project Ember and the Indeed G3
> 
> my question is, will any of those company match Schiit's service? I have strong doubts, hence. Still super stocked to get this amp! I like what's Schiit's doing realeasing this amp, and as a company I"m always happy to hear they put their customers first [wish they'd offer more black amps <3] but that aside. I'm egar to support them :3, good customer service is a heck of a lot better than a black chasis imo [boy it'd be great to have both though xD]
> 
> ...



I REALLY wouldn't throw the V2, Ocean, and G3 in a pile with any of the Projects. I can speak for service on them, my Starlight had a small issue with the volume pot and 2-day shipping was paid both ways. Turnaround time was a week total.


----------



## kstuart

thegame said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > There are some reasonable electronics explanation for this.  Even in a solid state amp, it is common knowledge that it takes 5 minutes for the "bias" circuit to stabilize.  A tube has much more heat and so more heat-related effects.
> ...


 

 The warmup is for the unit to *sound its best *- a point at which you can listen to stuff and it will represent how it is supposed to sound.
  
 BUT, you can listen to any amp immediately - the relay takes something like 20 or 30 seconds to turn on, and then if you've been waiting to hear that new song you just bought, you can listen immediately.


----------



## BournePerfect

Not just to sound it's best-but to operate properly at the specs intended by the designer-just like any tube amp. 30 seconds isn't gonna hit that mark.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## NinjaHamster

thegame said:


> And as always, thank you purrin for your input as well, very much appreciated as always.


 
  
 That's what ALL the women say ...


----------



## AxelCloris

A search doesn't seem to reveal anything about the combo, so has anyone tried pairing this with the AudioQuest DragonFly v1.0? I'm curious how the DAC would pair with the Vali. With it now running the same price as the Modi, maybe these two could be a killer combination.


----------



## doublea71

radio_head said:


> Intelligint Design​
> The Vali has tubes.  It has two RCA inputs and a 1/4" jack so it can also be used as a headphone amp.  On the front is a volume knob, this is to make the noises louder or softer with the push of a button.  On the back is a switch to turn the amp on _or_ off, putting the power in the hands of the user.  The tubes in the vali are not just decorations.  If they were they would be on the outside.  *They are part of the circuit and provide voltage gain.  This is engineer-talk for providing voltage gain.*  The amp is Class AB.  Here are some numbers to consider:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ponderous review....have you been drinking?


----------



## Sweden

doublea71 said:


> Ponderous review....have you been drinking?


 
  
 He should have done Crack instead.


----------



## tdockweiler

So tell me..does the Vali add any warmth to the DT-880? I wouldn't think so. I'm curious how it sounds with a Beyerdynamic headphone. That would probably give me a clear picture of what the heck it's doing..or not.
 I would really like to know why the Vali sounds dead neutral/transparent with a Q701 and K400, but very congested/muffled with the HD-650/DJ100 and warmer (more closed in) headphones..
  
 I still think the Vali is extremely good for the Q701, but doesn't add warmth to it. Don't ask me why.  Sounds EXACTLY how it always sounds, which is good to me. Perhaps with the modded Q701 it's slightly better than even the O2. I would not suggest it as a purchase because it's not a good all-rounder. Maybe if you only planned on using it for very specific headphones.


----------



## doublea71

sweden said:


> He should have done Crack instead.


 

 He's no John Cleese as someone suggested (perhaps sarcastically) and I expect better writing from a contributor. If you're a contributor to head-fi and being given a review sample, show some professionalism and perhaps a few more subordinating clauses. I would be nonplussed if I were from SA and had just read that.


----------



## Sweden

doublea71 said:


> He's no John Cleese as someone suggested (perhaps sarcastically) and I expect better writing from a contributor. If you're a contributor to head-fi and being given a review sample, show some professionalism and perhaps a few more subordinating clauses. I would be nonplussed if I were from SA and had just read that.


 
  
 I totally agree.
 It was very confusing writing for sure.


----------



## Eric_C

tdock: if you find the Vali doesn't add warmth to your 701, then there's no reason to expect it to add any to an 880. It certainly didn't add any perceivable warmth to mine.


----------



## Xyzygy

tdockweiler said:


> I'm curious how it sounds with a Beyerdynamic headphone.


 
  
 I have five hours using the DT-770 250 (obviously not the same as the 880) with my Vali (paired with an iFi iDAC) so far. The first hour or so was very dry, and then it settled into a very pleasing, detailed neutrality. Like many commenters have noted, it's a bit shallow on the bass, but it seemed to improve along the five-hour span.


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> *I still think the Vali is extremely good for the Q701, but doesn't add warmth to it. Don't ask me why.*  Sounds EXACTLY how it always sounds, which is good to me. Perhaps with the modded Q701 it's slightly better than even the O2. I would not suggest it as a purchase because it's not a good all-rounder. Maybe if you only planned on using it for very specific headphones.


 
  
 The Vali doesn't really add any warmth. I don't consider the Vali a particularly warm sounding amp (the Lyr is warm sounding tho.) Well maybe the Vali is a teeny teeny bit warm. But only after the filaments are white hot and electrons are melting off of it. What the Vali does add is "wetness". That is one major essence of toobs. That is what tooby is. This is what you are experiencing for the first time. Hearing wetness. Something that is warm, yet is not warm, but is actually wet. Tooby does not necessarily mean slow or syrupy or lush or bloomy. Although too much wetness coincides or results with these characteristics.
  
 You are making great progress, but you have much to learn and experience padawan.


----------



## achristilaw

k.t. said:


> Has anyone tried it with the HD600?
> 
> The HD650 is said to have ramped up bass characteristic compared to the HD600. Maybe this is not as good a match for the Vali (compared to Magni) due to lower power and maybe lesser control of the bass? So how does it do with the HD600?
> 
> ...


 
 The 600 is stellar when partnered with the Vali.....


----------



## ravager

purrin said:


> I can borrow an HE-5 (very similar and I believe probably even less efficient than the HE-6), try it out, and report back? Might take me a few days to get my hands on one. Do you wish me to proceed?
> 
> y/w. No noise issues for you? I had some noise issues with my HF-2, so I didn't recommend Grados.


 
 The noise floor is not as bad as I expected it to be. I haven't listened to any classical yet, though. I would think that is where it would be most evident. Even with the noise it is still a better pairing than the Magni and Grados because that is a little too bright for me. However, I have a feeling my next purchase will be the Uber Frost.


----------



## Xyzygy

purrin said:


> The Vali doesn't really add any warmth. Well maybe a teeny teeny bit. But only after the filaments are white hot and electrons are melting off of it. What the Vali does add is "wetness".


 
  
 That's a great term for it. Hydrated without being damp.


----------



## achristilaw

purrin said:


> The Vali doesn't really add any warmth. I don't consider the Vali a particularly warm sounding amp (the Lyr is warm sounding tho.) Well maybe the Vali is a teeny teeny bit warm. But only after the filaments are white hot and electrons are melting off of it. What the Vali does add is "wetness". That is one major essence of toobs. That is what tooby is. This is what you are experiencing for the first time. Something that is, yet is not. Tooby does not necessarily mean slow or syrupy or lush or bloomy. Although too much wetness coincides or results with these characteristics.


 
 It's actually dependent on where the tubes are used and what type. Signals on the inlet of a hybrid will offer more tones and timbers and add roundness and flesh to the notes being played.... which the Vali seems to accomplish, in spades. Thanks for your gushing endorsement.... or I would have never had given it a second thought!


----------



## purrin

xyzygy said:


> That's a great term for it. Hydrated without being damp.


 
  
 Damp is actually a valid term too. I love these fluffy audiophool terms because they piss the hell outta nwavguy's minions and the wannabe scientists/objectivists in the Sound Science section (where sound science and rational discourse goes to DIE!) As many may know, I've taken more than a few headphone measurements; and I love measurements myself. However, at the end of the day, measurements can only tell us so much. There's just weird stuff <cue spooky music> that's subjectively obvious that no measurements can show nor words can precisely describe. This is the juncture where we start to use analogy and metaphor. Oh yes, there's a lot of imprecision with such seemingly nonsensical poetry. But the beauty of it is that if we keep on trying, not succumbing to frustration or cynicism, we can actually end up building a common vocabulary with consistent meaning.
  
 I highly suggest folks revisit this episode of ST:TNG
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Darmok_(episode)

    




achristilaw said:


> It's actually dependent on where the tubes are used and what type. Signals on the inlet of a hybrid will offer more tones and timbers and add roundness and flesh to the notes being played.... which the Vali seems to accomplish, in spades. Thanks for your gushing endorsement.... or I would have never had given it a second thought!


 
  
 In the past, I've been mostly accused as a "hater" on HF because of my many many many negative reviews, oftentimes using the word "FAIL" when referring to products. It's been extremely fun to be a shill for Schiit and hype the Schiit out of something. But I stand firm in my belief that the Schiit Vali should indeed receive the Product of the Quinquennium Award.


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> The Vali doesn't really add any warmth. I don't consider the Vali a particularly warm sounding amp (the Lyr is warm sounding tho.) Well maybe the Vali is a teeny teeny bit warm. But only after the filaments are white hot and electrons are melting off of it. What the Vali does add is "wetness". That is one major essence of toobs. That is what tooby is. This is what you are experiencing for the first time. Hearing wetness. Something that is warm, yet is not warm, but is actually wet. Tooby does not necessarily mean slow or syrupy or lush or bloomy. Although too much wetness coincides or results with these characteristics.
> 
> You are making great progress, but you have much to learn and experience padawan.


 
  
 Well, whatever the Vali is supposed to "add", it's not adding to the Q701. It doesn't do a thing to it.
 I kind of expected perhaps some slightly fuller mids or something, but no real change which is nice.
  
 On the HD-650 it's most definitely making it sound dramatically different. No doubt. Not in a good way. Fuller in the low mids and maybe a little more pronounced in the mid-bass, but really sloppy bass. No real changes in treble. Anytime there is bass there is like a whole fog over the sound. Pretty subtle but it's there. Same results on every single source. Best results were on my CS4398 DAC, but still not good enough. Honestly It really sounded no better than an E9 with the HD-650.
  
 I would say that on budget (under $400) gear it's impossible to get the HD-650 to sound clear with the Vali.
  
 Basically I'm only curious if I'd get the same results with the DT-880 as I did with the HD-650. I sure hope not. What the Vali did to my HD-650 it also did to the DJ100.


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> Well, whatever the Vali is supposed to "add", it's not adding to the Q701. It doesn't do a thing to it.
> I kind of expected perhaps some slightly fuller mids or something, but no real change which is nice.


 
  
 You said it yourself. It adds "extremely good" to the Q701.


----------



## Maxvla

@dock

That's because the HD650 just doesn't sound clear, period. I've heard them on many systems, budget, high end, unbalanced, and balanced and I've never been all that impressed by them. Always preferred the HD600, and even those are not that clear compared to what's available today.


----------



## Transformatron

purrin said:


> That is one major essence of toobs. That is what tooby is. This is what you are experiencing for the first time. Hearing wetness. Something that is warm, yet is not warm, but is actually wet. Tooby does not necessarily mean slow or syrupy or lush or bloomy. Although too much wetness coincides or results with these characteristics.



This is exactly what I am wanting from it. Wet detail. I haven't wanted to say anything like that for risk of getting attack for my descriptive terms.


----------



## purrin

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra!


----------



## Maxvla

When the walls fell!


----------



## tdockweiler

maxvla said:


> @dock
> 
> That's because the HD650 just doesn't sound clear, period. I've heard them on many systems, budget, high end, unbalanced, and balanced and I've never been all that impressed by them. Always preferred the HD600, and even those are not that clear compared to what's available today.


 
  
 I know exactly what you're saying and I've heard these unclear (veiled) HD-650's before. This pair is something special because it's crystal clear, yet very full sounding in the mids and has smooth treble. Not dark at all and no recessed sounding upper mids. There is a graph somewhere on Dr P's website that shows what mine would kind of look like if measured. Maybe I have that one. When I compared it to the HD-580 and 600 it sounded as if it had more extended low-bass, but just slightly.
  
 You might find this strange but years back I had about 3 HD-650s and always was nit-picking about their stupid sound and didn't like them much. Too dark and muffled. I have the same amp and source around still. It wasn't just me getting used to the sound. I'm extremely picky.
  
 This one is actually very close in sound to my (bass) modded Q701. Slightly fuller mids and slightly less treble. Obviously the Q701 has a larger soundstage and is more airy/spacious sounding. There is no real mid-bass hump on my HD-650. Nothing that sticks out really.
  
 So anyway, i'm glad I gave the HD-650 another try. It all started when I bought an HD-580 for dirt cheap and found it better than the HD-600. It was the grills! It reduced the bass and sounded much more neutral and clearer. Probably not measurable.
  
 Haha, maybe some HD-650s are just a complete fail with the Vali, but probably not.
  
 I'll probably be keeping my HD-650 and Q701 for about forever since they have my favorite sound signatures.


----------



## TheGame

tdockweiler said:


> So tell me..does the Vali add any warmth to the DT-880? I wouldn't think so. I'm curious how it sounds with a Beyerdynamic headphone. That would probably give me a clear picture of what the heck it's doing..or not.
> I would really like to know why the Vali sounds dead neutral/transparent with a Q701 and K400, but very congested/muffled with the HD-650/DJ100 and warmer (more closed in) headphones..
> 
> I still think the Vali is extremely good for the Q701, but doesn't add warmth to it. Don't ask me why.  Sounds EXACTLY how it always sounds, which is good to me. Perhaps with the modded Q701 it's slightly better than even the O2. I would not suggest it as a purchase because it's not a good all-rounder. Maybe if you only planned on using it for very specific headphones.


 

 Hi tdockweiler,
  
 I should be getting my Vali Thursday or Friday. And although I do not have the DT-880's, I do own the DT-990 Pro's which probably have over 200 hours of listening time if not more (yes, they are not the same as the DT-880's but I can at least offer an opinion on the sound of the Vali with a Beyerdynamic Headphone). If you'd like, I can report back if you are interested.


----------



## zackzack

Is Lyr 2 supposed to come out Summer 2014?


----------



## TheGame

zackzack said:


> Is Lyr 2 supposed to come out Summer 2014?


 

 I haven't heard anything on the Lyr 2, latest I have heard from Schiit other than the Vali is the Ragnarok, which, according to Jason, should be just about ready for production in about 5 weeks, although he said they are still trying to push for December.


----------



## oddsocks

Just got my Vali in today and had a few hours of listening to some of my favourite tracks. I must say, even with my very noob ears, I feel as though the Vali adds a tinge of warmth to the tracks on my K701s compared to the Magni. The bass hits just a little harder, and the instruments feel a bit more forward than the vocals(?). I also feel that the music is a little more intimate and closer than I heard on the Magni for the same tracks.
  
 This is all fed through the Modi I got with the Magni. I think I'm pretty satisfied with both amps, they bring out the best in different genres I think.
  
 Now just need to save up for a Bifrost.....


----------



## shipsupt

doublea71 said:


> He's no John Cleese as someone suggested (perhaps sarcastically) and I expect better writing from a contributor. If you're a contributor to head-fi and being given a review sample, show some professionalism and perhaps a few more subordinating clauses. I would be nonplussed if I were from SA and had just read that.


 
  
 I agree.  It's completely irresponsible for a contributor who is paid to write reviews here and gets free gear to abuse his power of influence like this!  I think he should have to turn in his Vali!
  
 I'd like to add; Temba, his arms wide!


----------



## techboy

tdockweiler said:


> I know exactly what you're saying and I've heard these unclear (veiled) HD-650's before. This pair is something special because it's crystal clear, yet very full sounding in the mids and has smooth treble. Not dark at all and no recessed sounding upper mids. There is a graph somewhere on Dr P's website that shows what mine would kind of look like if measured. Maybe I have that one. When I compared it to the HD-580 and 600 it sounded as if it had more extended low-bass, but just slightly.
> 
> You might find this strange but years back I had about 3 HD-650s and always was nit-picking about their stupid sound and didn't like them much. Too dark and muffled. I have the same amp and source around still. It wasn't just me getting used to the sound. I'm extremely picky.
> 
> ...


 
 Which amp do you like the HD 650 with?
 Thank You
 Aakshey


----------



## hans030390

kstuart said:


> I have not heard the Crack (since I don't have HD600 or 650), but I know some guys who like it a lot and they are exactly the sort of listeners who would notice the relatively poor timbre of the Vali.  *I'm gathering that the majority of readers of a thread about $119 amps don't listen to music with much variety of instruments, so they would not notice.*


 
  
 Wow, that's a REALLY bold (and nonsensical) assumption to make! In what way is the cost of an amp or someone's budget at all indicative of the type of music they listen to?
  


doublea71 said:


> He's no John Cleese as someone suggested (perhaps sarcastically) and I expect better writing from a contributor. If you're a contributor to head-fi and being given a review sample, show some professionalism and perhaps a few more subordinating clauses. I would be nonplussed if I were from SA and had just read that.


 
  
 *Woooooooosh*
  
 The folks at Schiit have a good sense of humor and probably enjoyed the review quite a bit (assuming they read it).


----------



## Murdocderdon

Because of my bad english skillz i normally don´t write here but i just want to say something about the HD650/Vali pairing.
  
 I was kinda surprised that the HD650s aren´t get sounding warmer on the Vali. K701 & HD800 get a well rounded dry bass from the Vali what makes the K701 imo an amazing great pairing. I like the HD800 on my more neutral Corda Symphony more but they also sound great with the Vali whats kinda surprised me too. On the HD650 it feels a lot more clear and a bit brighter with the Vali what i really like on these warm phones. The pairing sounds first a bit weird for my ears but then i get used to it and would recommend it to try in case of you don´t like the 650s darkness.
  
 Just a bad written noob-opinion so don´t kill me. 
  
 Greets from Germany


----------



## leesure

doublea71 said:


> He's no John Cleese as someone suggested (perhaps sarcastically) and I expect better writing from a contributor. If you're a contributor to head-fi and being given a review sample, show some professionalism and perhaps a few more subordinating clauses. I would be nonplussed if I were from SA and had just read that.







sweden said:


> I totally agree.
> It was very confusing writing for sure.




/facepalm

You recognize it was humorous satire, right?


----------



## UmustBKidn

I would really like to hear how the Vali stacks up against:
  
 Modi -> Bravo V2 -> Beyerdynamic DT 770
  
 Preferably with a pre-1958 Mullard D-getter 12AU7 driving it.
  
 Go, budget-fi.


----------



## UmustBKidn

On relative truth: Relativism on Wikipedia.
 Bottom line: if a brick falls on your foot, it will hurt. It doesn't matter if it's my foot or yours.
  
 On all the disagreements over SQ: a recent post of mine on sound science.
 Bottom line: We're not comparing our ears. Sometimes argument is pointless.
  
 On lightening things up, again:
  
 Chuck Norris and Superman once fought each other on a bet. The loser had to start wearing his underwear on the outside of his pants.


----------



## doublea71

leesure said:


> /facepalm
> 
> You recognize it was humorous satire, right?


 

 It was sophomoric humor at best. If SA likes it, then no harm was done.


----------



## leesure

doublea71 said:


> It was sophomoric humor at best. If SA likes it, then no harm was done.




We'll have to disagree on that point. I think it was genius and played ever so nicely off the standard review double speak. It injected some much-needed levity into this thread. Knowing Jason, I can say he would laugh out loud at that post. It was well written satire. That you did not recognize it as satire is not the author's fault.


----------



## Misterrogers

flysweep said:


> Like you said, the Ember is "chameleon-like" in its ability to let a tube's sound through (and add little else).  I've been trying to find what tube in my collection best approximates the Vali's sound (to make comparisons between the amps a little more uniform).. and it's proving difficult.  I prefer to use the Ember with orthos (HE-500, Paradox, etc.) over my favorite high impedance dynamics (HD600, HD800, etc).  BTW.. running the HD600 off a speaker amp (with a resistor network between the amp and headphone) is truly wonderful.. but that's OT.
> 
> With the HE-500, the Ember vs Vali is a real toss up.  I'm using some pretty nice tubes with the Ember (early 60s, USA-made Amperex "PQ" 6DJ8 among others).  Vs the Vali, the Ember is a little more multi-dimensional as far as soundstage goes.. with the HE-500 driven off the Ember, it's bass is punchier & better controlled vs the Vali.  The Vali is more transparent and arguably more detailed, though (to what degree varies based on the tube used in the Ember).
> 
> ...


 
 Can you elaborate a bit on Vali vs. Crack/Speedball FlySweep?


----------



## anetode

doublea71 said:


> It was sophomoric humor at best. If SA likes it, then no harm was done.


 

 More like soph_moronic_ humor, LOL! You're right, he's no John Cleese. He's barely even a Michael Palin.


----------



## doublea71

leesure said:


> We'll have to disagree on that point. I think it was genius and played ever so nicely off the standard review double speak. It injected some much-needed levity into this thread. Knowing Jason, I can say he would laugh out loud at that post. It was well written satire. That you did not recognize it as satire is not the author's fault.


 

 I saw that he was trying to be funny/clever, but no, it didn't cross my mind that it was all satirical, just taking the piss out of the typical review speak - I literally thought he was just a god-awful writer. I couldn't fathom that a head-fi contributor who had been given a review sample would be allowed to treat the entire review as a big joke and offer so little of value to the reader (the joke is on me, I suppose). Since you know Jason, it seems like it'd be taken well.


----------



## Sweden

leesure said:


> /facepalm
> 
> You recognize it was humorous satire, right?


 

 It wasn't exactly obviously funny so no.
 You really need to know the prior writing of he person to figure these subtleties out. It's not exactly like people's reviews make less than sense some times and use exactly those type of words. Some places only give you those type of reviews.
 Looking back it was perhaps a bit too loose even for a head-fi commentary.


----------



## leesure

sweden said:


> It wasn't exactly obviously funny or witty so no.
> I see these type of attributes mentioned here so you basically need to know the writers prior writing to figure these things out.




I don't know the author at all and by the end of the first paragraph I recognized it as a parody of the typical review. It was obvious...but I guess not obvious enough for some...which is what makes for good satire.


----------



## Sweden

leesure said:


> I don't know the author at all and by the end of the first paragraph I recognized it as a parody of the typical review. It was obvious...but I guess not obvious enough for some...which is what makes for good satire.


 
  
 "The DSHA sounds like butter while the Vali sounds like I can't believe its not butter"
  
 Kind of obvious when reading it two times.


----------



## FraGGleR

After listening for a few more hours with my HD800s, I am really liking the pairing.  This is still out of my Nuforce HDP, which I like better than the ODAC and Modi as a DAC.  I'd say upper budget fi, as the Resonessence Concero is better to my ears and is lower-mid mid-fi on my arbitrary scale (where the Bifrost seems to also sit).  I love the "wetness" added to the sound.  I already loved the HD800, but I had forgotten how much better they sound with just a sprinkle of tube magic.  Aural memory isn't very reliable, but I enjoy the Vali/HD800 pairing as much as anything I have heard in the sub $1000 range though personal trials at home and at meets.  
  
 And on the soundstage thing, I don't think it sounds closed in at all.  Maybe it is my HD800s and the music I listen to, but I just don't agree.  Then again, all I currently have to compare to is the HDP headphone out and my CEntrance HifiM8 (and the memories of amps gone by).  I'd say it presents a more natural sound both in timbre and soundstage and positioning than either of those two.  I really wish I still had my HD650s to test on the Vali, as I am surprised that they don't sound good to the couple people who have reported back.  Then again, I had removed all the foam in mine to reduce whatever "veil" people had talked about and never had an issue with it.
  
 Definitely think it sounds overall better than the old Bravo amp that I had, even after I had modified it and rolled tubes.


----------



## leesure

sweden said:


> "The DSHA sounds like butter while the Vali sounds like I can't believe its not butter"
> 
> Kind of obvious when reading it two times.




Bingo! 

Here's an ever more obvious clue from earlier on_ "How big a deal are microphonics? To find out, I asked the average "man on the street" if they were worried about microphonics or if they thought it was a non-issue. Most people ignored me, but one man dressed as Jesus in a diaper stated in no uncertain terms that "aliens kidnapped his baby and that's where applesauce comes from." Strong words indeed, and something that should make Schiit think twice before downplaying microphonics in the future._

Hello.


----------



## Stapsy

anetode said:


> More like soph_moronic_ humor, LOL! You're right, he's no John Cleese. He's barely even a Michael Palin.




I think you are giving him too much credit. Eric Idle seems more apt.


----------



## FraGGleR

I think this thread should go back to user impressions as opposed to review criticism.


----------



## leesure

fraggler said:


> I think this thread should go back to user impressions as opposed to review criticism.




Gosh, sorry dad. 

I guess there haven't been enough user impressions yet, eh? 

I provided mine weeks ago...where are yours? 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/540#post_9930077


----------



## doublea71

sweden said:


> "The DSHA sounds like butter while the Vali sounds like I can't believe its not butter"
> 
> Kind of obvious when reading it two times.


 

 I took it as a guy who thought he was being funny, but inappropriately since he is a vetted head-fi contributor who was sent a piece of gear. I've never read such a flippant review on head-fi that didn't at least try to include some useful commentary. As funny as it may be to some or even the people at Schiit (and I do appreciate not taking this stuff too seriously), I'd be very hesitant to send him something to review if I were a manufacturer from a country where the humor doesn't translate - not every manufacturer is a native speaker of English and I would imagine most expect a modicum of professionalism when they go through the trouble of sending gear to a guy with a bona fide head-fi name tag on his profile. I reserve the right to be completely wrong about all of my assumptions. Good night and good luck.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

leesure said:


> We'll have to disagree on that point. I think it was genius and played ever so nicely off the standard review double speak. It injected some much-needed levity into this thread. Knowing Jason, I can say he would laugh out loud at that post. It was well written satire. That you did not recognize it as satire is not the author's fault.


 
  
 This. I will be linking to this as The Best Vali Review of All Time.
  
 I knew it was parody at the first sentence. In addition to Schiit, I'm a published, award-winning science fiction author, so either (a) I know a thing or two about writing, or (b) I also write complete dreck. Either is fine by me--the review was hilarious!


----------



## doublea71

fraggler said:


> I think this thread should go back to user impressions as opposed to review criticism.


 

 It just says *new vali schiit amp!!! *in the title, nothing about it being an impressions thread. I get your drift, though.


----------



## SMG52

leesure said:


> Gosh, sorry dad.
> 
> I guess there haven't been enough user impressions yet, eh?
> 
> ...


 
 In rereading your review (thanks for that), I noticed that you seem to have only used the Modi with the Vali. With all this talk about the Vali responding very well to 'better' dacs, I wondered if you were able to check it out with any other dacs while you had it? From your experience with it, would you even consider  using the Vali to drive your LCD-X?


----------



## Zojokkeli

Okay, so I received my Modi and Vali today and hooked them up to my PC.  Apparently my Windows (Win 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1) doesn't recognize Modi. Are there some special drivers to be downloaded in a case like this or something? 
 I linked Vali and my old uDAC 2 together and they sound fine, but without my Schiit stack complete I feel dead inside. I'd hate to return the Modi, plus I live in Europe so there's that extra hassle over international shippings etc. Wat do?


----------



## leesure

smg52 said:


> In rereading your review (thanks for that), I noticed that you seem to have only used the Modi with the Vali. With all this talk about the Vali responding very well to 'better' dacs, I wondered if you were able to check it out with any other dacs while you had it? From your experience with it, would you even consider  using the Vali to drive your LCD-X?




Sadly, my Vali had to go home before I had a chance to test it with other DAC's. If I were listening at the studio, where I have the Schiit Mini-Stack, I would absolutely use it to drive my LCD-X's. There's plenty of power. That said, I would probably reach for the Mjolnir first if I were at home.

I would probably drive the X's with the Vali before the Lyr. I wasn't crazy about the synergy between the X and Lyr. Too lush.


----------



## FraGGleR

leesure said:


> Gosh, sorry dad.
> 
> I guess there haven't been enough user impressions yet, eh?
> 
> ...


 
 Slow your roll, son.  I have posted several times with my impressions.  
  
 I thought the review was good satire, too, but you can't convince someone who doesn't see it as such that it is so.  
  
 Seems like it would be a waste of your time and not really relevant or useful in a thread about an amp.


----------



## K.T.

tdockweiler said:


> It all started when I bought an HD-580 for dirt cheap and found it better than the HD-600. It was the grills! It reduced the bass and sounded much more neutral and clearer. Probably not measurable.




Yes, the 580s can be great and sometimes more musical than the 600s. But you have to pair it with the right amp to get the most out of it (true for all phones generally).

Both can sound glorious, but how would I describe the differences? The 580s are warmer and maybe less resolving (even though they supposedly use the same drivers), but there's a suppleness and organic quality to the sound that is just hypnotic. But if you don't have just the right phone/amp combination, they can sound like a overly-warm, bloated mess.

The 600s, on the other hand, sound more dynamic and clear, but lack the suppleness and organic quality I just described above. They sound stiffer in comparison. Still, they can sound great.

For those of you who know tube amps, the 580 would be akin to a really involving single ended tube amp (like 2A3 or 300B), whereas the 600 are akin to a really good push-pull tube amp.

But, IMO, you have to get the right phone/amp synergy with both, it they can sound really wrong.

I will try both with the Vali when I have time and report back.


----------



## leesure

fraggler said:


> Slow your roll, son.  I have posted several times with my impressions.
> 
> I thought the review was good satire, too, but you can't convince someone who doesn't see it as such that it is so.
> 
> Seems like it would be a waste of your time and not really relevant or useful in a thread about an amp.


 
 Sorry if I came off as aggressive there.  I just take issue when people try to shape the conversation.  Sometimes the most interesting points are made i posts that skirt the edges of 'on topic'
  
 Peace.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

sweden said:


> leesure said:
> 
> 
> > /facepalm
> ...



ITT: oblivious folk
come on people I was laughing the whole time. Very well executed subtle satire. Maybe if he'd read it aloud you would've heard it in tone and thus, funnier. :rolleyes:


----------



## Barry S

_I accidentally posted the following comment on the HD650 thread, but meant to post it here. Reposting because there's a lot of interest in the HD650s out of the Vali--sorry for any bad forum etiquette._
  
  After my disappointment with the Modi>Vali>HD650, I've been auditioning the *Gungnir>Vali>HD650*, and I'm shocked at the difference in sound. With the Modi chain, the HD650 sounded flabby and hazy with compressed dynamics.  The Gungnir chain largely cleans up those problems and makes the HD650 sound very rich with exciting dynamics. I have to listen to the Gungnir>Mjolnir>HD650 again, but I'm not sure I've ever heard the HD650 treble with this much sparkle and clarity. The mid-bass punch of the HD650 hits like a prize fighter--maybe a bit too much, but very fun. The soundstage is intimate, but instrument separation and detail are very nice. This is one of the best chains I've ever heard for the HD650.  I think _some_ of the preferences for the HD600 comes from plugging it into muddy signal chains.  The Gungnir>Vali>HD650 may make you forget about the HD600.
  
 Schiit should never have used the Modi-sized chassis for the Vali, because the Modi doesn't begin to take advantage of the Vali's potential.  The Vali deserves a high quality DAC.
  
*Added*: I realize it may sound a little looney writing about a $119 amp and a $749 DAC, but I'm just trying to make some observations with the gear I have available. If the HD650 is your love, the Vali with a good DAC is a nice combination. For whatever reason, the Modi>Vali>HD650 is a weak combination, so it's worth testing other DACs.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

jason stoddard said:


> leesure said:
> 
> 
> > We'll have to disagree on that point. I think it was genius and played ever so nicely off the standard review double speak. It injected some much-needed levity into this thread. Knowing Jason, I can say he would laugh out loud at that post. It was well written satire. That you did not recognize it as satire is not the author's fault.
> ...



This, this man knows and understands humor. I think we can agree that the guys over at schiit deserve to be in the top 10 funniest Head-Fiers, among which Bowei and Wink and of course yours truly belong,correct?


----------



## TMRaven

I can't believe anybody took that review as something other than satire.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> This, this man knows and understands humor. I think we can agree that the guys over at schiit deserve to be in the top 10 funniest Head-Fiers, among which Bowei and Wink and of course yours truly belong,correct?


 
  
 Just trying to keep it light-hearted!
  
  
 Remember, if you aren't having fun with your equipment, your equipment is having fun with you.
  
 Seriously, some people need to switch to a decaffeinated brand. This ain't the secret to world peace or the cure for cancer. It's music. It should be fun!


----------



## Makiah S

fraggler said:


> Definitely think it sounds overall better than the old Bravo amp that I had, even after I had modified it and rolled tubes.


 
 yay, and chances are it was cheaper at the end of the day q.q
  


leesure said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Here's an ever more obvious clue from earlier on_ "How big a deal are microphonics? To find out, I asked the average "man on the street" if they were worried about microphonics or if they thought it was a non-issue. Most people ignored me, but one man dressed as Jesus in a diaper stated in no uncertain terms that "aliens kidnapped his baby and that's where applesauce comes from." Strong words indeed, and something that should make Schiit think twice before downplaying microphonics in the future._
> 
> Hello.


 
 I admit that gave it away pretty hard core for me too imo... lol I enjoyed the silly review, and I'm glad Jason liked it as well! 
  


barry s said:


> _I accidentally posted the following comment on the HD650 thread, but meant to post it here. Reposting because there's a lot of interest in the HD650s out of the Vali--sorry for any bad forum etiquette._
> 
> After my disappointment with the Modi>Vali>HD650, I've been auditioning the *Gungnir>Vali>HD650*, and I'm shocked at the difference in sound. With the Modi chain, the HD650 sounded flabby and hazy with compressed dynamics.  The Gungnir chain largely cleans up those problems and makes the HD650 sound very rich with exciting dynamics. I have to listen to the Gungnir>Mjolnir>HD650 again, but I'm not sure I've ever heard the HD650 treble with this much sparkle and clarity. The mid-bass punch of the HD650 hits like a prize fighter--maybe a bit too much, but very fun. The soundstage is intimate, but instrument separation and detail are very nice. This is one of the best chains I've ever heard for the HD650.  I think _some_ of the preferences for the HD600 comes from plugging it into muddy signal chains.  The Gungnir>Vali>HD650 may make you forget about the HD600.
> 
> ...


 
 Not too wacky, I just got into a car accident... so all I can afford for uhh the next like 6 months is going to b the Vali, out of my $600 ish Dac
  
 That said, Looking forward to getting the vali in Spring! Maybe sooner if I'm REALLY lucky


----------



## SMG52

jason stoddard said:


> Just trying to keep it light-hearted!
> 
> 
> Remember, if you aren't having fun with your equipment, your equipment is having fun with you.
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## AladdinSane

Hope you're okay. Get better!


----------



## FraGGleR

leesure said:


> Sorry if I came off as aggressive there.  I just take issue when people try to shape the conversation.  Sometimes the most interesting points are made i posts that skirt the edges of 'on topic'
> 
> Peace.


----------



## purrin

doublea71 said:


> I saw that he was trying to be funny/clever, but no, it didn't cross my mind that it was all satirical, just taking the piss out of the typical review speak - I literally thought he was just a god-awful writer. I couldn't fathom that a head-fi contributor who had been given a review sample would be allowed to treat the entire review as a big joke and offer so little of value to the reader (the joke is on me, I suppose). Since you know Jason, it seems like it'd be taken well.


 
  
 There were a lot of "inside" jokes (and some that I probably don't even get) on that one. Not going to elaborate.


----------



## moriez

jason stoddard said:


> *Remember, if you aren't having fun with your equipment, your equipment is having fun with you.*


 
  
 Hail Mary, Good Lord, Amen!


----------



## AladdinSane

113 pages of posts. I think we can stand one with a little humor. Not like the thread never goes off topic! 
  
 Finally ordered a Vali and hopefully have by the weekend. Chain will be: Asus Xonar STX > Vali > HD600. Been over analyzing amps and DACs for weeks now, then, this shows up. At $120 decided to stop thinking and just do it. Been listening to my relatively new HD600s through my JDS C5 as I don't have a proper desktop amp. Will be interesting to compare.


----------



## Maxvla

doublea71 said:


> I took it as a guy who thought he was being funny, but inappropriately since he is a vetted head-fi contributor who was sent a piece of gear. I've never read such a flippant review on head-fi that didn't at least try to include some useful commentary. As funny as it may be to some or even the people at Schiit (and I do appreciate not taking this stuff too seriously), I'd be very hesitant to send him something to review if I were a manufacturer from a country where the humor doesn't translate - not every manufacturer is a native speaker of English and I would imagine most expect a modicum of professionalism when they go through the trouble of sending gear to a guy with a bona fide head-fi name tag on his profile. I reserve the right to be completely wrong about all of my assumptions. Good night and good luck.




Wow. Is Head-Fi a restricted, no-fun zone? Both you and Sweden need to lighten up a bit. This isn't a science journal, it's a community of enthusiasts.


----------



## jbarrentine

fraggler said:


> I enjoy the Vali/HD800 pairing as much as anything I have heard in the sub $1000 range though personal trials at home and at meets.


 
  
 This sounds good to me, as I was intending to try the hd800 at some point and didn't want to do the whole 'you need this particular amp that's been kissed by the pope to sound good' thing. Next stop is replacing my hrt music streamer II. Been looking at that Concero you have, I wish I could get hold of your gear for an hour


----------



## stratocaster

jason stoddard said:


> Just trying to keep it light-hearted!
> Remember, if you aren't having fun with your equipment, your equipment is having fun with you.
> Seriously, some people need to switch to a decaffeinated brand. This ain't the secret to world peace or the cure for cancer. It's music. *It should be fun*!


 
  
*It is*. You just have to read the loads of posts in this thread and enjoy! Seriously, everyone should have to spend a good amount of their hard earned money for the entertainment factor present in this very thread. As a subscriber of this thread I would walk away without any good clue on the Vali, but I would walk away satisfied like after a very good comedy show.


----------



## kstuart

hans030390 said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > I have not heard the Crack (since I don't have HD600 or 650), but I know some guys who like it a lot and they are exactly the sort of listeners who would notice the relatively poor timbre of the Vali.  *I'm gathering that the majority of readers of a thread about $119 amps don't listen to music with much variety of instruments, so they would not notice.*
> ...


 
 I specifically said "majority" because it was simply a demographic analysis, not an assessment of any particular person.
  
 Usually it is older people who have the money and interest in more expensive audio gear.  These days, due to the economy, it is even more true - younger people are having even more difficulty than usual getting jobs, paying off student loans, etc.
  
 And, for whatever reason, polls and sales show less interest in acoustic music amongst younger people than ever before.  It seems possible that classical music and acoustic jazz music may both die out in the coming decades.
  
 So, not referring to any particular person, but statistically, a thread on an inexpensive amp is going to get more younger head-fi'ers, and thus less acoustic music use.
  
 I did listen to a bunch of EDM (older Daft Punk) last night uisng the Vali with the Mad Dog and my laptop's built-in DAC, and it sounded very enjoyable.  I'm going to keep it for that late night use.  The excellent detail and fast response of both the Vali and the Mad Dog makes the pairing ideal for modern electronic music.


----------



## Maxvla

That's too bad then. I consider electronic and all its different subclasses one of my favorite genres, it's actually about half of my entire collection, but I think on the whole it has less depth than even simple acoustic folk. I have fun listening to the electronic stuff, but I get more out of the folk. Jazz and classical are some of the deepest music types possible.


----------



## jbarrentine

maxvla said:


> That's too bad then. I consider electronic and all its different subclasses one of my favorite genres, it's actually about half of my entire collection, but I think on the whole it has less depth than even simple acoustic folk. I have fun listening to the electronic stuff, but I get more out of the folk. Jazz and classical are some of the deepest music types possible.


 
  
 The world changes. Even if it were to disappear, there're more than enough out there for your entire lifetime.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

just finished listening to Mahler 4 Solti and then  the amazing Ataulfo Argenta doing 'Espana' with LSO in 1957. The Vali is incredible as an amp. What fun... This rocks.


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *FraGGleR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And on the soundstage thing, I don't think it sounds closed in at all.


 
 The Vali doesn't sound closed in - it sounds very open - the excellent detail includes room reflections and other cues that help it sound open.
  
 But the soundstage is shallow and slightly narrow, and that makes things sound "up front" and present.  It is first row seats, not the middle of the hall.


----------



## Xyzygy

kstuart said:


> Usually it is older people who have the money and interest in more expensive audio gear.  These days, due to the economy, it is even more true - younger people are having even more difficulty than usual getting jobs, paying off student loans, etc.
> 
> And, for whatever reason, polls and sales show less interest in acoustic music amongst younger people than ever before.  It seems possible that classical music and acoustic jazz music may both die out in the coming decades.
> 
> So, not referring to any particular person, but statistically, a thread on an inexpensive amp is going to get more younger head-fi'ers, and thus less acoustic music use.


 
  
 Since you're unable to show a correlation between any of your citation-less statistics that would create an accurate profile of a "younger head-fier," your conclusion is baseless.


----------



## manbear

kstuart said:


> I specifically said "majority" because it was simply a demographic analysis, not an assessment of any particular person.
> 
> Usually it is older people who have the money and interest in more expensive audio gear.  These days, due to the economy, it is even more true - younger people are having even more difficulty than usual getting jobs, paying off student loans, etc.
> 
> ...


 

 The thing is, you don't need to listen to classical or jazz to hear a variety of instruments. I don't know if jazz really has a greater variety of instruments than a lot of rock music, either... I'm not actually offended (since I am a young person and it's true that I neither listen to jazz nor classical much), it just seems like you're making an unfair characterization that comes off as rather dismissive. You'll hear just as many if not more different instruments on a Shpongle or Dead Can Dance album than you would on a classical album, to give an example. There is also plenty of acoustic indie rock and folk music that benefits from timbral accuracy just as much as Diana Krall or whatever the old farts listen to these days


----------



## TheGame

zojokkeli said:


> Okay, so I received my Modi and Vali today and hooked them up to my PC.  Apparently my Windows (Win 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1) doesn't recognize Modi. Are there some special drivers to be downloaded in a case like this or something?
> I linked Vali and my old uDAC 2 together and they sound fine, but without my Schiit stack complete I feel dead inside. I'd hate to return the Modi, plus I live in Europe so there's that extra hassle over international shippings etc. Wat do?


 

 Hi Zojokkeli,
  
 According to Schiit:
  
_*USB Powered, No Drivers*_
_Modi plugs into virtually any computer—Windows, Mac, and some of the most popular Linux distros, as well as iPhones and iPads—and *requires no drivers* to deliver great sound, up to 24/96 sampling rates. It features asynchronous transfer with individual crystal oscillators for the 44.1 and 48k sampling rates, and uses the USB Audio 1.0 standard over USB 2.0, and is powered by the USB port._
  
 So no you shouldn't need any drivers for the Modi. Have you tried different USB ports, prefererably a USB port that is directly on your PC's Motherboard (not a USB hub)? It is also recommended to use a USB 2.0 cable 3 Meters or less*. *
  
*Have you went into the Windows Control Panel - > Sound -> and made sure that the Modi was set as your default audio device? *
  
 Make sure to do the above step, and after you click on sound select the "Playback" tab. With the Modi connected via USB, under the playback tab it should show up as a playback device. Make sure you select it, then right-click on it and select "Set as Default Device"
  
 Hope this fixes your issue. If not, please report back.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I would avoid USB3 ports (stick to 2) and also prefer driving the Modi from a powered USB HUB box (with separate PSU) in preference from just the laptop.


----------



## Zojokkeli

thegame said:


> Hi Zojokkeli,
> 
> According to Schiit:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi! And thanks for the reply!
  
 I tried all the usb-ports on my PC and none of them recognizes Modi. I have an usb 2 rated cable and it's less than 2 meters short. I also tested Modi and Vali on a Macbook Pro and they worked perfectly, so there's nothing physically wrong with Modi. Modi shows up as an Unknown Device on my device manager, and it doesn't show up in audio devices either. I contacted Schiit and they told me that the problem is with my Windows, which I don't doubt. Here are a couple of screenshots, if they would clarify the problem.


----------



## Traum

Hey Zojokkeli,

Are you hooking your Modi up to a USB hub of some sort? Have you tried plugging it directly into the PC?

Another possibility is, you might not have installed the chipset drivers that are supposedly required for your computer's motherboard. Depending on whether your PC is a whitebox or brand name machine, I would go to the motherboard manufacturer (for whitebox PC) or the brand name manufacturer and look for the motherboard chipset drivers to download and install. But this is unlikely to be the problem since when I did a fresh re-install of Win7, the OS recognized my Modi right off the bat from the DVD installation. But it is still worth a try though.


----------



## Zojokkeli

traum said:


> Hey Zojokkeli,
> 
> Are you hooking your Modi up to a USB hub of some sort? Have you tried plugging it directly into the PC?
> 
> Another possibility is, you might not have installed the chipset drivers that are supposedly required for your computer's motherboard. Depending on whether your PC is a whitebox or brand name machine, I would go to the motherboard manufacturer (for whitebox PC) or the brand name manufacturer and look for the motherboard chipset drivers to download and install. But this is unlikely to be the problem since when I did a fresh re-install of Win7, the OS recognized my Modi right off the bat from the DVD installation. But it is still worth a try though.


 
  
 Hi Traum!
  
 It's hooked straight to PC. I tried the chipset driver install but it didn't work. Thank you anyway!
 Hopefully the problem can be resolved somehow, I'd hate to let it go.


----------



## Traum

If you are feeling brave, I would consider frying your copy of Win7 and do a complete fresh re-install. It is a major PITA, but it is also something that I try to do once every 12 - 24 months when my copy of Windows starts getting sluggish and acts weird. Still, it may or may not solve your Modi issue, but again, is something worth considering.


----------



## leesure

These are the times I thank God I made the switch to 100% Mac about 10 years back.

/stirs off topic pot and runs


----------



## RMiller

traum said:


> If you are feeling brave, I would consider frying your copy of Win7 and do a complete fresh re-install. It is a major PITA, but it is also something that I try to do once every 12 - 24 months when my copy of Windows starts getting sluggish and acts weird. Still, it may or may not solve your Modi issue, but again, is something worth considering.


 

 Same problem happened to me once and I did have to reinstall in the end... maybe there is another solution to that problem, but finding it may take more time than reinstall itself


----------



## Traum

leesure said:


> These are the times I thank God I made the switch to 100% Mac about 10 years back.
> 
> /stirs off topic pot and runs



LOL~ I know of some Mac issues and quirks in regards to our lovely hobbies as well.


----------



## Murdocderdon

Do someone uses DT880s with the Vali?
 I would like to know how this pairing sounds.


----------



## elwappo99

zojokkeli said:


> Hi! And thanks for the reply!
> 
> I tried all the usb-ports on my PC and none of them recognizes Modi. I have an usb 2 rated cable and it's less than 2 meters short. I also tested Modi and Vali on a Macbook Pro and they worked perfectly, so there's nothing physically wrong with Modi. Modi shows up as an Unknown Device on my device manager, and it doesn't show up in audio devices either. I contacted Schiit and they told me that the problem is with my Windows, which I don't doubt. Here are a couple of screenshots, if they would clarify the problem.


 
  
 Gah that's super annoying, especially since you're so far from home base for Schiit. I'd try finding another computer to hook it up to. It could be that the Modi isn't getting enough power from your USB port, or an issue with your Win7 installation.
  
 Or you could follow the other advice and buy a Mac and then drop $200 on Amarra (to make sure you get the highest fidelity).


----------



## Transformatron

leesure said:


> These are the times I thank God I made the switch to 100% Mac about 10 years back.
> 
> /stirs off topic pot and runs


 
 +1


----------



## bearFNF

zojokkeli said:


> Hi! And thanks for the reply!
> 
> I tried all the usb-ports on my PC and none of them recognizes Modi. I have an usb 2 rated cable and it's less than 2 meters short. I also tested Modi and Vali on a Macbook Pro and they worked perfectly, so there's nothing physically wrong with Modi. Modi shows up as an Unknown Device on my device manager, and it doesn't show up in audio devices either. I contacted Schiit and they told me that the problem is with my Windows, which I don't doubt. Here are a couple of screenshots, if they would clarify the problem.


 
 If the other dac you used has drivers it may be a conflict with those drives not letting go of the hub.
  
 If you feel comfortable with it, I would try going into control panel->device manager and removing all the USB components under "universal serial bus controllers" and let windows redetect and install the devices again.  When you reboot it will detect the USB controllers and install the devices again.


----------



## jbarrentine

murdocderdon said:


> Do someone uses DT880s with the Vali?
> I would like to know how this pairing sounds.


 
  
 The T90 sounds fantastic. I can't imagine the DT880 sounding less than wonderful for any reason.


----------



## leesure

murdocderdon said:


> Do someone uses DT880s with the Vali?
> I would like to know how this pairing sounds.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?advanced=1&byuser=&containingthread[0]=685162&newer=1&output=posts&resultSortingPreference=relevance&sdate=0&search=DT880&type=all


----------



## TheGame

zojokkeli said:


> Hi! And thanks for the reply!
> 
> I tried all the usb-ports on my PC and none of them recognizes Modi. I have an usb 2 rated cable and it's less than 2 meters short. I also tested Modi and Vali on a Macbook Pro and they worked perfectly, so there's nothing physically wrong with Modi. Modi shows up as an Unknown Device on my device manager, and it doesn't show up in audio devices either. I contacted Schiit and they told me that the problem is with my Windows, which I don't doubt. Here are a couple of screenshots, if they would clarify the problem.


 

 You can try Microsoft's "FixIt" Program. it's supposed to diagnose and fix Windows USB problems automatically. I cannot guarantee it will work, but it might. Worth a shot. Here is the link:
http://support.microsoft.com/mats/windows_usb_diagnostics


----------



## DarknightDK

Without having to read the whole thread, is there any recommended time that the Vali can be switched on continuously without damaging the amp / tubes?


----------



## kstuart

xyzygy said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > Usually it is older people who have the money and interest in more expensive audio gear.  These days, due to the economy, it is even more true - younger people are having even more difficulty than usual getting jobs, paying off student loans, etc.
> ...


 
 Clearly the lack of citations shows that I am not trying to "prove" what I am saying, but it doesn't make it less true.
  
 Which point are you disputing ?
  


> ...it just seems like you're making an unfair characterization that comes off as rather dismissive.


 
  
 Note I am not blaming anyone ... someone cannot be interested in something they do not know exists.  Nor is there anything "better" about any genre of music.  If you are using the words "unfair" and "dismissive", then you are getting a negative spin from my comments that I am not intending.


----------



## kstuart

darknightdk said:


> Without having to read the whole thread, is there any recommended time that the Vali can be switched on continuously without damaging the amp / tubes?


 

 If you are concerned that something you are going to do might damage the amp, then email Schiit on their web site.  They will get back to you quickly with the answer.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

zojokkeli said:


> Hi! And thanks for the reply!
> 
> I tried all the usb-ports on my PC and none of them recognizes Modi. I have an usb 2 rated cable and it's less than 2 meters short. I also tested Modi and Vali on a Macbook Pro and they worked perfectly, so there's nothing physically wrong with Modi. Modi shows up as an Unknown Device on my device manager, and it doesn't show up in audio devices either. I contacted Schiit and they told me that the problem is with my Windows, which I don't doubt. Here are a couple of screenshots, if they would clarify the problem.


 

 Try going into Windows under safemode (press f8 on boot-up after first post, before windows logo) with your Modi plugged in. Then go to your device manager and remove the the items. Sometimes what shows in Safemode and regular boot up are different, going into safe mode is a sure bet of removing device drivers installed. Also be sure to turn off your USB power saving under power options and have internet connection when you boot up with the modi for the first time (after removing in safe mode).


----------



## Maxvla

darknightdk said:


> Without having to read the whole thread, is there any recommended time that the Vali can be switched on continuously without damaging the amp / tubes?



Assuming the tubes have a MTBF of 10,000 hours, you'd get about a year and 2 months before having to replace them. As to damage, I wouldn't think so as these tubes don't get all that hot, I don't imagine, but ask Jason.


----------



## Zalithian

Excited to get my cables for this tomorrow. Looking to test the Modi/Vali with the HD600 and HE400. Shame on me for not ordering the cables earlier. I thought they would have been included. I'm sure if I had read more carefully I'd be enjoying them already. Oh well, live and learn


----------



## MickeyVee

Cr@p! Ordered Vali on day 1 in the am and still waiting on delivery.  USPS to Canada (mainly Canada customs) is brutal.  In the interim, enjoying reading the impressions.


----------



## Modular

ethan7000 said:


> I REALLY wouldn't throw the V2, Ocean, and G3 in a pile with any of the Projects. I can speak for service on them, my Starlight had a small issue with the volume pot and 2-day shipping was paid both ways. Turnaround time was a week total.


 
 Agreed. There's no reason to speculate on the customer service of a company that you've never had a customer service experience with. 
  
 That being said, I had the wrong top plate shipped to me with my Project Sunrise 2 DIY amp. Jeremy at Garage1217 sent me the correct one and also included the black volume knob for free. He was also extremely helpful in answering my questions about his product through emails BEFORE I had purchased anything. 
  
 Top notch group there.


----------



## Xyzygy

kstuart said:


> Clearly the lack of citations shows that I am not trying to "prove" what I am saying, but it doesn't make it less true.
> 
> Which point are you disputing ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's as clear as the Vali now. At least the hook isn't barbed, and is therefore easily removed. Have a good evening.


----------



## manbear

kstuart said:


> Note I am not blaming anyone ... someone cannot be interested in something they do not know exists.  Nor is there anything "better" about any genre of music.  If you are using the words "unfair" and "dismissive", then you are getting a negative spin from my comments that I am not intending.


 

 Sorry, I'm not trying to call your intentions into question. Just pointing out that I read it that way, and it seems like some others did too. You know how the internet is...


----------



## Zalithian

So hey guys, I heard there's this new amp called the Schiit Vali. Know anything about it?


----------



## Xyzygy

zalithian said:


> So hey guys, I heard there's this new amp called the Schiit Vali. Know anything about it?


 
 About 10 hours on mine now. The bass seems to be slowly but steadily improving, and Purrin's apt description of "wetness" is holding true!


----------



## Zalithian

I am so slapping myself in the face for not having the cables. Tomorrow though. It's go time. Too bad UPS is shipping. They'll be glad to deliver my package at 8 PM. Fedex would be here at around 10am. Ah well. It'll be worth it! I think my laptop DAC is just... yuck. Interested to see how the Modi makes an impact. Purrin is a sneaky guy, making all of us spend more money.


----------



## ejwiles

maxvla said:


> Assuming the tubes have a MTBF of 10,000 hours, you'd get about a year and 2 months before having to replace them. As to damage, I wouldn't think so as these tubes don't get all that hot, I don't imagine, but ask Jason.


 
 According to Schiit's FAQ:  " tubes also have a lifespan, though Vali's tubes are expected to last 10,000-20,000 hours--which is 7-14 years of listening 4 hours a day, every day."


----------



## Maxvla

He said he was thinking about keeping it turned on 24/7, not 4 hours a day.


----------



## ejwiles

True, but just passing along some info from Schiit about expected lifespan...


----------



## Zalithian

maxvla said:


> He said he was thinking about keeping it turned on 24/7, not 4 hours a day.




I think his point is they are rated for 10 to 20k hours and he can do the math himself.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Did Schiit estimate those times with on and offs or constantly on? What would be best, keeping the units constantly on as much as you can or shutting them on and off daily?

Does the on/off put more 'mileage' to the tubes than a constant feed?


----------



## Zalithian

I believe your best bet is turning the Vali off when you're not using it. The downside is tubes usually need to warm up to sound their best.


----------



## purrin

xyzygy said:


> About 10 hours on mine now. The bass seems to be slowly but steadily improving, and Purrin's apt description of "wetness" is holding true!


 
  
 I'm not a huge believer in burn-in (I couldn't get the K701s to have the same bass levels as the HD650, even after 400 hours of burn in), but I guess it's probable that these old stock pencil tubes, after being stored in a crate next to the Ark of the Covenant in some government storehouse for 75 years, may need to light up for a while to burn off the impurities and crud which may have developed over time inside the tubes.
  


zalithian said:


> Purrin is a sneaky guy, making all of us spend more money.


 
  
 LOL, you've caught on. Remember. Bifrost is not enough. Uber Analog Upgrade. And unless you have a pretty darn good CD transport, USB Gen 2 Upgrade as well.


----------



## NinjaHamster

purrin said:


> I'm not a huge believer in burn-in (I couldn't get the K701s to have the same bass levels as the HD650, even after 400 hours of burn in)


 
  
 That doesn't describe a reasonable expectation consistent with "burn-in"; that describes the type of miracle one expects just before The Rapture !
  
 Heck, I've been "running in" my Toyota Corolla for the past 40 years, and it STILL doesn't handle like a brand-new Ferrari ...


----------



## KefkaticFanatic

Hey guys, I wasn't sure if my question was appropriate for an entire topic in the recommendations forum so I thought I would just ask here.  I'm currently looking into upgrading my desktop audio setup to a Schiit Magni/Modi stack or Vali/Modi stack.  (Current setup is just an ASUS Xonar DGX)
  
 What I'm trying to debate right now is whether I should be getting the Magni or Vali.  I've heard a lot of really intriguing stuff about how the Vali sounds, and I am definitely interested, but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion for my more specific use.  I currently have a pair of Sennheiser HD595s with my machine, and am looking into possibly upgrading to Hifiman HE-400s in the semi-near future.  I am likely also to purchase Sennheiser Momentums for mobile use, though as they would be for mobile use I likely wouldn't use them much with this setup.  I though I had read something about how low impedance headphones wouldn't work very well with Vali, so I was wondering if I might run into this issue with the 595s or Momentum if I decided to use that with it for some reason.
  
 Not sure if relevant in this case, but I would be listening to all sorts of music (classical, rock, electronic, jazz, ambiance, jazz-hop), as well as using it to enjoy playing games and watching films.
  
 And if anyone thinks that the Vali would simply be a superior component for what I would be using it for, that would be good to know too


----------



## purrin

The HD595 has very similar specs and impedance characteristics to the HD558/598. My friend, the pirate, I mean the Head-Fi'er ultrabike, tried his HD558 with the Vali for a few days and didn't have any issues (other than the initial microphonics upon turn-or inserting the phono jack.)
  
 Also, give the ASUS Xonar line-outs some consideration. Don't assume the Modi would be better. It's possible, but definitely evaluate. The Xonar line outs can actually be pretty decent.


----------



## KefkaticFanatic

Hmmm didn't consider that about the Xonar, though I probably would like to get an external setup as at some point I may build a more compact PC with no space for anything besides my GPU in the slots 
  
 I don't care much for the virtual surround and other shenanigans either, though if there really isn't a discernible quality difference it wouldn't make sense to drop the extra $100 huh..  I'll look into that for sure.
  
 Good to hear about the 595 though!  Would you recommend the Vali as a primary, all around amp over the Magni?  I suppose that's my primary question here, as I don't plan on buying both or some other alternative amp


----------



## purrin

You if are going to using a lot of different headphones, the Magni is a better choice. It's always going to be quiet, i.e. noise free. The only issue with the Magni, and others have noted this, is that it can be slightly bright, therefore not necessarily a good match for brighter sounding headphones. However, keep in mind that if your headphones happen to gel well with the Vali, the Vali is so much better sounding than the Magni.


----------



## TheGame

zalithian said:


> Excited to get my cables for this tomorrow. Looking to test the Modi/Vali with the HD600 and HE400. Shame on me for not ordering the cables earlier. I thought they would have been included. I'm sure if I had read more carefully I'd be enjoying them already. Oh well, live and learn


 
 What cables are you talking about, RCA? Please don't start scaring me into thinking I need cables. I have tons of nice RCA cables and the Vali comes with a power plug right? There isn't any other cables I need right?
  


purrin said:


> LOL, you've caught on. Remember. Bifrost is not enough. Uber Analog Upgrade. And unless you have a pretty darn good CD transport, USB Gen 2 Upgrade as well.


 
 Yes, I blame purrin. I've been obsessing over the Uberfrost for months because of him!


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> You if are going to using a lot of different headphones, the Magni is a better choice. It's always going to be quiet, i.e. noise free. The only issue with the Magni, and others have noted this, is that it can be slightly bright, therefore not necessarily a good match for brighter sounding headphones. However, keep in mind that if your headphones happen to gel well with the Vali, the Vali is so much better sounding than the Magni.


 
  
 I've heard that someone got a Magni that was much less bright. Think it was one with a higher number. Not sure if this is true or if they did a silent revision. Probably not. It wouldn't take much for Schiit to perfect the sound of the Magni. The only time I felt the Magni was too bright was when I paired it with a Q701 with a docked Ipod Touch 2G (almost never do this). The Ipod Touch 2G is lean/bright sounding as it is too. I didn't have anything like a DT-990 or SR-325is though.
  
 BTW I was looking into the iFi iCAN and noticed it has your favorite TPA6120A2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That thing seems to be getting some good reviews and it's on my radar along with the UHA-6S.


----------



## doublea71

purrin said:


> There were a lot of "inside" jokes (and some that I probably don't even get) on that one. Not going to elaborate.


 

 It's all good - I have to confess that it sailed right over my head, perhaps as a result of braincell-depleting activities I engaged in as a youth.


----------



## doublea71

maxvla said:


> Wow. Is Head-Fi a restricted, no-fun zone? Both you and Sweden need to lighten up a bit. This isn't a science journal, it's a community of enthusiasts.


 

 You know...you're right. I did take it way too seriously (which makes the review even funnier).


----------



## UmustBKidn

zojokkeli said:


> Hi! And thanks for the reply!
> 
> I tried all the usb-ports on my PC and none of them recognizes Modi. I have an usb 2 rated cable and it's less than 2 meters short. I also tested Modi and Vali on a Macbook Pro and they worked perfectly, so there's nothing physically wrong with Modi. Modi shows up as an Unknown Device on my device manager, and it doesn't show up in audio devices either. I contacted Schiit and they told me that the problem is with my Windows, which I don't doubt. Here are a couple of screenshots, if they would clarify the problem.


 
  
 I've had this happen with random devices (usually thumb drives). I think this happened on another thread some months back. I've had this happen several times on different computers. It appears to be a Windows USB controller issue that hasn't been fixed yet. It has existed since at least XP.
  
 Anyway, before you take drastic measures (like reinstalling windows or dumping your Modi), what I suggest is that you un-install all "Universal Serial Bus controllers" and restart the computer. This needs to be done as an administrator, using Device Manager. Windows will then reinstall them at the next boot up.
  
 You can read about this issue here, and here. The first link will probably help. The second is just general info from M$.
  
 What this does is basically flush any errors from the controller database, and gives you a fresh start. The machine will re-recognize all your USB devices again, and hopefully it will recognize your Modi. I would also suggest you plug it into a different USB port if possible.
  
 If you use a USB hub, you may also want to try another one. If you need further help, PM me.


----------



## Stapsy

I have had the Vali for a week (less than 24 hour turn around on my order...nice job Schiit!) and it is very impressive.
  
 I paired the Vali with an Anedio D2 and HD800s.  Straight away I noticed an improvement in the sound.  The Vali was able to smooth the treble harshness of the HD800 without losing any of the detail.  This had been a problem for me in the last few months when listening through the D2 headphone amp.  I was finally able to enjoy the music again!  I the queued up some familiar albums and started listening.  The next thing I noticed was how cohesive the sound was as a whole.  The stereo imaging was much stronger with the Vali included in the chain.  The instruments became more clear and precise, yet had a fullness to the sound that blended everything together in a way that sounds very natural.  The cohesive sound was the thing that I loved so much about the Stax 007 and I felt was missing from my setup with the HD800.  I also found that the dynamics were vastly improved.  Sounds seemed to appear in a way that I have never experienced before.  In my opinion this is a trait of an excellent tube amplifier.  The Vali is no slouch in the "krill" department either as it has excellent detail retrieval.  I think this is a big contributor to the imaging.  The subtle details and decays/reflections made the sound quite layered and 3 dimensional. I can't believe that all of this came from a $119 amplifier.
  
 I have quite an expensive amplifier on order and the Vali honestly made me rethink that decision.  If it is this good for $119 why am I spending so much on another amp.  If you have the HD800 I highly recommend getting a Vali.  It is the best I have ever heard the HD800 sound.  Given my past experience with the HD600, I think it would pair really well with those cans as well.  That isn't to say the Vali won't work with any other headphones, I just haven't extensively listened to them to know.  I think the best thing about the Vali is how well it is able to scale.  You could pair it with the Modi and I am sure it would sound great, but as you improve your chain the true capabilities of this little amp become apparent.
  
 A quick note on the microphonics...I haven't had any issues.  Just plug in your headphones before you turn it on, allow it to settle for 30 seconds and away you go.  I have it set up on a very flimsy coffee table and unless I hit the amp itself, I don't have any problems.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

kstuart said:


> hans030390 said:
> 
> 
> > kstuart said:
> ...



I can't listen to anything too simple, like most EDM and DnB. And I'm 16. With two jobs. 

TAKE THAT STEREOTYPES.


----------



## Barry S

stapsy said:


> I have had the Vali for a week (less than 24 hour turn around on my order...nice job Schiit!) and it is very impressive.
> 
> I paired the Vali with an Anedio D2 and HD800s.  Straight away I noticed an improvement in the sound.  The Vali was able to smooth the treble harshness of the HD800 without losing any of the detail.  This had been a problem for me in the last few months when listening through the D2 headphone amp.  I was finally able to enjoy the music again!  I the queued up some familiar albums and started listening.  The next thing I noticed was how cohesive the sound was as a whole.  The stereo imaging was much stronger with the Vali included in the chain.  The instruments became more clear and precise, yet had a fullness to the sound that blended everything together in a way that sounds very natural.  The cohesive sound was the thing that I loved so much about the Stax 007 and I felt was missing from my setup with the HD800.  I also found that the dynamics were vastly improved.  Sounds seemed to appear in a way that I have never experienced before.  In my opinion this is a trait of an excellent tube amplifier.  The Vali is no slouch in the "krill" department either as it has excellent detail retrieval.  I think this is a big contributor to the imaging.  The subtle details and decays/reflections made the sound quite layered and 3 dimensional. I can't believe that all of this came from a $119 amplifier.
> 
> ...




Some actual thoughts from a Vali owner--bravo!  This sounds like another example of the Vali sounding very good through a high quality DAC. Depending on the uber amp you're ordering, you may want to keep the Vali around for the different signature--that's what I'm doing with my LCD-Xs. The Vali costs less than after market cables and is going to make a hell of a bigger difference.


----------



## nicdub

i'm finding the vali to really compliment the he-400 and he-500.  it seems to provide a little sweetness to the 400 that i felt was missing.  sometimes i thought the 400 was a bit, and i mean a small bit, harsh, particularly with high notes (using the magni, of course).  the vali helped smooth that out.  also, i experienced a sense of realism that i hadn't before, and space.  just a great overall listen.  ("because" on abbey road is a great example)  
  
 that being said, and having tried to keep up with this thread as much as possible, i haven't noticed many talking about how the vali pairs with the lcd-2.  anyone care to share their experience?


----------



## TheGame

I think I recall some posts with members commenting on it with the lcd-2, but I cannot point you to the posts, I've been reading this thread so long, I wouldn't remember where they are, but pretty sure there have been a few comments about it.


----------



## Misterrogers

barry s said:


> Some actual thoughts from a Vali owner--bravo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yep. Seriously, your DAC should always be the best part of your chain (or at least very good). You don't have to spend 4K to realize a great DAC; a pimped Bifrost will get you in that league. In my DIY efforts, I build/tune/tweak DAC's 4 to 1 over amps; I have two on my bench right now. Nothing. NOTHING has made as big a difference to my chain as the DAC. Over the years we've all watched our peers jump on the FOTM amp/headphone, only to return it disappointed that it just didn't sound like it was advertised. While there are a number of contributors to this, I can't help but believe that a 'CrapDAC' is a major contributor. Vali seems to scale very very well (mine's inbound), but many amps have more to give - the DAC 'downstream' is just killing the bits.


----------



## laserfj

purrin said:


> What the Vali does add is "wetness".


 
  
 Don't take this the wrong way, but you are full of it.
  
 I can endure you using quite a few words to describe amps that are clearly meaningless, but here you have crossed the line.


----------



## TMRaven

I dunno wetness makes a lot of sense to me, especially since dry is such a common word.


----------



## TheGame

No disrespect to your comment laserfj, as I try to respect others opinions with an open-mind. But in my _"opinion"_ the term "wetness" that purrin used is a good way of describing the sound.


----------



## laserfj

thegame said:


> No disrespect to your comment laserfj, as I try to respect others opinions with an open-mind. But in my _"opinion"_ the term "wetness" that purrin used is a good way of describing the sound.


 
  
  
 Can you guys tell me what he meant by "wet" in technical terms that I can understand?


----------



## jbarrentine

I like where this thread is going.


----------



## Stapsy

laserfj said:


> Can you guys tell me what he meant by "wet" in technical terms that I can understand?


 
  
 Check out the head-fi glossary page.  Lots of great information!
  
*Wet* - A reverberant sound, something with decay. Opposite of Dry.


----------



## brhfl

traum said:


> LOL~ I know of some Mac issues and quirks in regards to our lovely hobbies as well.


 
 I used to do the reinstall Windows once-a-year-or-so thing as well, now I tend to reboot my Mac about as often 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was seriously bummed recently, the last time I checked my uptime I was up around 500 days... then last week a major power outage drained my UPS... sigh.
  
 I would second (third?) the recommendation to OP though on a fresh install... Windows does seem to have little glitchy moments where starting anew really is the best bet. And there's nothing particularly odd or proprietary about how Modi handles the connection, it truly should be plug-and-play. 
  
 I assume you've tried all the ports on your machine? Some put out less power than others, an irritating reality for a connection that should be standardized to prevent that... Also why the recommendation of a powered hub was given, which is worth a shot...


----------



## jbarrentine

zojokkeli said:


> I tried the chipset driver install but it didn't work.


 
  
 Guy doesn't have drivers installed, of course his usb ports aren't going to work. That's not Windows causing the problem.


----------



## Barry S

stapsy said:


> Check out the head-fi glossary page.  Lots of great information!
> 
> *Wet* - A reverberant sound, something with decay. Opposite of Dry.
 

 Wet/Dry are common terms in audio, especially when you're mixing sound.  They're uncommon around head-fi, though.  I asked earlier if anyone else thought the Vali had a touch of reverb. I could have asked if the Vali sounded a little wet and it would have meant the same thing.


----------



## shipsupt

laserfj said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but you are full of it.
> 
> I can endure you using quite a few words to describe amps that are clearly meaningless, but here you have crossed the line.


 
  
  
 Right!?  Between Picard and Dathon at El-Adrei and the "butter guy" this thread has completely come off the rails!  I can't endure any more.


----------



## FraGGleR

laserfj said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but you are full of it.
> 
> I can endure you using quite a few words to describe amps that are clearly meaningless, but here you have crossed the line.


 
 Wow!  Your very first post on Headfi is to tell someone he is full of it?  Nice!


----------



## purrin

stapsy said:


> Check out the head-fi glossary page.  Lots of great information!
> 
> *Wet* - A reverberant sound, something with decay. Opposite of Dry.
 
  
 Yeah that it's sort of. There's also a warmth element to it, but it's not quite warmth too. Maybe bloom, but it's not exactly that either. Hence we have to resort to "poetry"


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

fraggler said:


> laserfj said:
> 
> 
> > Don't take this the wrong way, but you are full of it.
> ...



That IS a good 50% of posts anyways...


----------



## purrin

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> That IS a good 50% of posts anyways...


 
  
 Not a big deal. Not even worth a cogent response because he's already made up his mind: "Don't take this the wrong way, but [direct insult]. [Feigned slight outage + slightly veiled insult], [outrage]."
  
 I figure its probably Tdock, Shike, an nwavguy minion, or a banned "sound scientist" on sock account.


----------



## Stapsy

I agree with what you are saying.  I think it is a VERY slight background distortion associated with tubes that gives it that effect.  It is difficult to describe but easy to understand once you experience it.  My point is more that using the term "wet" is not out of place when describing sound.


----------



## Tuco1965

It would be the opposite of clinical also.  They're all good terms.  Wet is very descriptive.


----------



## purrin

No doubt "wetness" could describe an error of commission. But a rather pleasing one. Definitely not distortion. At least distortion in the technical sense because I have never seen amps measure differently on full spectrum analyzers between tubes with one wetter or bloomier than the other. (I've tried to measure and see differences.)
  
 Head-Fi'er _ultrabike_ has measured the Vali to death. There are far more measurements, and different types of measurements of the Vali than any other head amp I am aware of. In terms of distortion, it's surprisingly good. Not quite the 0.000000001% of the Objective2, but still well well below the limits of hearing. In terms of noise, it doesn't measure so good. No surprise there.


----------



## Shockah

Does anyone know how the Vali sounds when paired with a HD 600? It seems as though the Vali does not have much synergy with the HD 650...


----------



## imackler

shockah said:


> Does anyone know how the Vali sounds when paired with a HD 600? It seems as though the Vali does not have much synergy with the HD 650...


 
  
 I think it has great synergy with the HD650. I think there are lots of posts to suggest the same. But same for the HD600, too.


----------



## Stapsy

You are probably right, if the measurements don't support this then it must be something else.  The unknown secret effects of tubes I think.


----------



## Barry S

shockah said:


> ... It seems as though the Vali does not have much synergy with the HD 650...


 
  
 Well, the Modi>Vali>HD650 is competent, but unexciting. However, the Gungnir>Vali>HD650 sounds very very good, so I think it would depend on your DAC.


----------



## thegunner100

shockah said:


> Does anyone know how the Vali sounds when paired with a HD 600? It seems as though the Vali does not have much synergy with the HD 650...


 

 I don't find the hd600 and the vali to be a good combination. Not nearly as good as with the hd800. With the hd600 and vali, everything is a bit too upfront imo. I'll try again once I have more burn in on my unit. It currently has about 40h or so.
  
 It's possible that my hd600's pads are a bit worn out as well, which contributes to the more upfront sound.


----------



## purrin

shockah said:


> Does anyone know how the Vali sounds when paired with a HD 600? It seems as though the Vali does not have much synergy with the HD 650...


 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1575#post_10033617


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> Not a big deal. Not even worth a cogent response because he's already made up his mind: "Don't take this the wrong way, but [direct insult]. [Feigned slight outage + slightly veiled insult], [outrage]."
> 
> I figure its probably Tdock, Shike, an nwavguy minion, or a banned "sound scientist" on sock account.


 
  
 Come on Purrin, don't be so childish with these comments. Just because someone had a different opinion than you doesn't mean they're going to waste time on something like that.
 I have no problem holding back what I think of any amp even if it makes people butt-hurt. I don't even hate the Vali as it is and left it a positive review (but since it's not 5/5 it's negative to them I guess).
  
 Haha, I did that before on your fan club because one of your own minions gave me a PM lecture when I joined and got me banned for no reason. He was still upset about how I told him to stop trolling in the K550 thread (don't even like the headphone).
 You'd think that after half a year he'd forget.
  
 I think it's obvious by now that you and I like totally different sounding amps and DACs. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## hans030390

Alternate account, perhaps, from someone that has unsquashed beef with purrin? Anyway... (edit: wow, lots more posts than I expected since I typed this...)
  
 I finally got to spend some focused time with the Vali. I didn't compare it with anything else tonight, so I can't offer opinions there. But, it has already proven itself quite capable in many regards. Now, unfortunately, I am currently working 3rd shift, so I have not yet tested the HE-500 with it due to others sleeping through doors right next to me. The Mad Dog is currently out of commission until I get new pads. So, all I had to really listen with was the modded Tascam TH-02 (see that thread for mod details). I actually came away very impressed with what both pieces of equipment were capable of, but I'll obviously focus on the Vali.
  
 My setup is as follows: Laptop (on battery, locked CPU clocks and voltage, Fidelizer, other tweaks, no fan) -> JKSPDIF MK3 -> Metrum Quad NOS DAC -> Vali -> Head Ornament
  
 Also running XXHighEnd trial for playback, which sounds good so far in testing. Upsampling with Arc Prediction to 24/96.
  
 The Vali is surprisingly good at resolving fine, quick details without sounding harsh or artificial. One of the first things I noticed was how easy it was to pinpoint and track the drums and cymbals even in material that would normally get a bit smeared over. Though not a reference track for sound quality itself, I like using Opeth's "The Lotus Eater" (and other samples from that album and the next) to test for this. A lot of the percussive passages are quite complex and, as I mentioned, can get easily smeared over. The "blast beats" (I hate that term) at the intro in particular are difficult to get just right. The Vali wonderfully handled it and with very little fatigue to speak of. (I do want to make it clear I listened to a wider variety of music than this, and everything else did similarly well. This track just highlighted it for me.)
  
 No issues at all with any track picking out and tracking instruments, vocalists, etc. at any time. Plenty of layer and depth and capable of a surprisingly open sound (keeping in mind limited by the Tascam, which still does well). Dynamics were also quite good. The Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II produced a slightly cleaner sound overall. The Vali can sound a _little_ bit unfocused with the lower regions in comparison, based on what I remember from when listening to the Leckerton yesterday. But, yet, at the same time I found myself picking up the drums and bass quite clearly. The Leckerton is also quieter with sensitive headphones, and that certainly factors into the cleaner sound. I can hear a quiet hiss on the Tascams using the Vali.
  
 I really like how the Metrum counterbalances the Vali. I'm not sure how best to describe it...the Vali certainly isn't bright, edgy, or harsh from what I can tell. But it isn't laid-back either (measurements I've seen looked pretty flat to 20KHz). This has been better described by others already. The Metrum, being a NOS DAC, has a slight roll-off up top (around -1dB at 20KHz, 24/96 setting) that is to my tastes, and most folks describe NOS DACs as sounding fairly analog. With this particular setup, I am not hearing the NOS downsides much. Instead, it all seems to pair together for a very pleasing, natural, and detailed sound according to my personal tastes. On that note, the Leckerton sounded less natural (more digital?) than the Vali on the same setup. Both are great, though. I think I'd still reach for the Vali, even with the somewhat sensitive Tascam.
  
 This is my first tube amp, and I can tell there's definitely something to be said about the tube sound. I don't particularly like the term "wetness," but I do agree the Vali tastefully adds a tiny bit of it. Given how impressive it sounds with listening so far, I'm sure others are correct when they say this is tubes done right. And you get this for $120? That's not much at all for such a great, pleasing sound, and it's probably the best intro into tubes I could have taken. With the right stuff behind it, it's certainly very capable.
  
 I'll test it out some more later.


----------



## zerodeefex

shockah said:


> Does anyone know how the Vali sounds when paired with a HD 600? It seems as though the Vali does not have much synergy with the HD 650...


 
 There's a balanced Dynahi (that sounds great) and HD800s on my desk but I've been perfectly happy the last few days with X-Sabre > Vali > HD650. It's a great pairing. I generally prefer the HD600s as they sound a bit clearer to me, but with this pairing, the HD650s really opens up. Clearly a huge step up over my portable amps such as the Glacier or Pico Power.


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> Haha, I did that before on your fan club because one of your own minions gave me a PM lecture when I joined and got me banned for no reason...


 
  
 You neglected to mention how you tried to desperately sneak back using a dozen IPs from different TOR routers and proxies for several days after you got banned. Only Dale Thorn has you beat in the desperation department.
  
 Your past behavior of using proxies, socks, etc. (and being unable to stop) is why I suspect you, not because I disagree with you. Since you brought up the subject of motivations, clearly you are still miffed at being banned.


----------



## Barry S

zerodeefex said:


> There's a balanced Dynahi (that sounds great) and HD800s on my desk but I've been perfectly happy the last few days with X-Sabre > Vali > HD650. It's a great pairing. I generally prefer the HD600s as they sound a bit clearer to me, but with this pairing, the HD650s really opens up. Clearly a huge step up over my portable amps such as the Glacier or Pico Power.


 

 THIS is what I'm talking about. I think the Gungnir>Vali does the same thing for the HD650s--opens them up with a very dynamic articulate sound. Good instrument separation, very hard hitting bass, and maybe the best treble I've heard out of the HD650s.


----------



## jbarrentine

Alright, now we're getting off track with the petty arguments. 
  
 I would personally love to hear the Vali with a better dac. I have the Concero on my short list. I feel the HRT MS II must be holding me back now. Living in a rural area really sucks for being able to experience that kind of thing without purchasing it. 
  
 It's wonderful that so many people are coupling this little $120 amp with higher end dacs and headphones and really enjoying it. It makes it seem like an ideal amp for the newcomer.


----------



## mhamel

How about you guys show Schiit some respect and cut out the arguing before you get the thread closed.
  
 If you don't like someone's review, don't read it.  Move on.  Simple.
  
 If you need to argue, take it to PM.


----------



## Zalithian

thegame said:


> What cables are you talking about, RCA? Please don't start scaring me into thinking I need cables. I have tons of nice RCA cables and the Vali comes with a power plug right? There isn't any other cables I need right?
> 
> Yes, I blame purrin. I've been obsessing over the Uberfrost for months because of him!




You will need a USB A male - USB B male cable. it's like modern printer USB cables I guess. One is the normal USB connector and the other side is square opposed to rectangular. I only had usb micro cables so I needed the usb cable and RCA.

edit: The Vali does come with a power cable.


----------



## FraGGleR

barry s said:


> THIS is what I'm talking about. I think the Gungnir>Vali does the same thing for the HD650s--opens them up with a very dynamic articulate sound. Good instrument separation, very hard hitting bass, and maybe the best treble I've heard out of the HD650s.


 
 Man you guys are making me really miss my HD650s.  I love the HD800s, and they sound great out of Vali, but I do miss the warmth of the HD650s from time to time.


----------



## jbarrentine

fraggler said:


> Man you guys are making me really miss my HD650s.  I love the HD800s, and they sound great out of Vali, but I do miss the warmth of the HD650s from time to time.


 
  
 Guy has an HD800 and complains. /face stabbing


----------



## purrin

fraggler said:


> Man you guys are making me really miss my HD650s.  I love the HD800s, and they sound great out of Vali, but I do miss the warmth of the HD650s from time to time.


 
  
 Have you tried the HD800 Anax 2.0 mod?
  
 The HD800s, even from tube amps, were always a bit too bright for me.


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> You neglected to mention how you tried to desperately sneak back using a dozen IPs from different TOR routers and proxies for several days after you got banned. Only Dale Thorn has you beat in the desperation department.
> 
> Your past behavior of using proxies, socks, etc. (and being unable to stop) is why I suspect you, not because I disagree with you. Since you brought up the subject of motivations, clearly you are still miffed at being banned.


 
  
  
 Purrin, i'm not banned at your forum. I logged in yesterday to say HI. Someone probably realized that the original ban was not deserved.
 I get along with nearly everyone there really. I get along with you even, but it's tough sometimes because of your condescending remarks.
 I did do what you say, but only on one night. It was a bit of a low point and I normally don't do such stupidness. It's something I would have done when I was 16, but not 33. I had fun doing it i'll admit!
  
 Now onto the Vali:
  
 As for MY poor synergy with the HD-650 and Vali. Could be my HD-650 is different than other pairs (or junk). I just know it sounds pretty amazing with the O2, Micro and anything else that's transparent (or close). I've never been a fan of the HD-650 before but I really love it now for once.
  
 If you like the pairing then that's great, but it's just not for me. I wish I had the HD-600 to try out.
  
 I should put a disclaimer out that I don't even like the Asgard 2 with the HD-650. I know most people love that combination. Heck, I could be one of those abnormal people who hate it with the Crack. Not sure. I did however absolutely love the Asgard 1 with the HD-600! Perhaps that's better on the Vali for ME.
  
 Anything that makes the HD-650 sound warmer or fuller isn't what I prefer. I have very specific preferences, that's all. I do nit-pick over tiny details.
  
 BTW even with a 38ohm headphone I didn't find the Vali too noisy.


----------



## FraGGleR

purrin said:


> Have you tried the HD800 Anax 2.0 mod?
> 
> The HD800s, even from tube amps, were always a bit too bright for me.


 
 Not yet.  Just the Innerfidelity version of the 1.0.  It did enough to tame the peaks that bothered me stock that I didn't bother going further.


----------



## FraGGleR

jbarrentine said:


> Guy has an HD800 and complains. /face stabbing


 
 Who complained?  Missing my second favorite pair of headphones of all time isn't complaining.


----------



## Makiah S

tmraven said:


> I dunno wetness makes a lot of sense to me, especially since dry is such a common word.


 
  
  


laserfj said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but you are full of it.
> 
> I can endure you using quite a few words to describe amps that are clearly meaningless, but here you have crossed the line.


 
  
  


thegame said:


> No disrespect to your comment laserfj, as I try to respect others opinions with an open-mind. But in my _"opinion"_ the term "wetness" that purrin used is a good way of describing the sound.


 
 Lol yea try to be open minded, and if your going to... call out our senior members try not to use a stock avatar with 2 posts lol. Not a good start on any forum
  
 Buy as the owner of a VERY Dry and sterile amp [which I do like] I would like a wet amp. My W1000x... has an intimacy that is really magical with a slighty wetter amp than my NFB 10ES2. For example my HM801 and PB1 are nice. But I'd love to use my NFB10ES2 Dac with an amp better than my wacky pb1
  
 That said I'm hoping to get a Vali... soon :3
  
 I think it will mach nicely with my W1000x and NESB10ES2 Dac!


----------



## purrin

tdockweiler said:


> Purrin, i'm not banned at your forum. I logged in yesterday to say HI. Someone probably realized that the original ban was not deserved.


 
  
 I am the one who personally unbanned you.
  


tdockweiler said:


> I get along with nearly everyone there really. I get along with you even, but it's tough sometimes because of your condescending remarks.


 
  
 What condescending remarks? My replies to your posts over there have always been courteous.


----------



## Makiah S

purrin said:


> I am the one who personally unbanned you.
> 
> 
> What condescending remarks? My replies to your posts over there have always been courteous.


 
 Yup, I enjoy hearing from tDock. I will admit he speaks the truth, and there may be a number of ppl who think he was being terribly rude for no reason
  
 Non the less. what he says is not always popular :3, I can understand where he comes from... I've not been baned for it yet thank gawd. But Still glad he's back. I'm kinda glad he's not impressed the with Vali! Too much Positive hype imo is a bad sign... like the Kek M500
  
 HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE, OMG THEY ARE EPIC for MONTHS
  
 Then months later I hear all the neagtive points about them NO ONE mentioned for like FOREVER
  
 Ehm, that said. The Vali is being met with postive AND negative feed back right out the gate. n imo daz is good


----------



## CEE TEE

tdockweiler said:


> Purrin, i'm not banned at your forum. I logged in yesterday to say HI. Someone probably realized that the original ban was not deserved.
> I get along with nearly everyone there really. I get along with you even, but it's tough sometimes because of your condescending remarks.
> I did do what you say, but only on one night. It was a bit of a low point and I normally don't do such stupidness. It's something I would have done when I was 16, but not 33. I had fun doing it i'll admit!
> 
> ...


 
*Okay, maybe it is time to take a break.  I seriously can't follow everywhere you are going with your pairings and impressions and previous experience and current experience and possible experience.  *
  
 I've been spending my time with the Vali and HD800 (inner fidelity Anax mod).  It is fantastic with the PWD and even with my lowly Pure i20 dock as the DAC.  Why?  The very slight things that the amp does are in really fine balance and just help the HD800 find a sweet spot between tone, resolution, clarity, and fatigue.
  
 Been listening the past few nights with the Pure i20 dock (and versus the Magni sitting below) it as a bedside rig.  Vali with HD800 has been so nice that I have been falling asleep listening to music at night and not posting about it.
 
 When I get around to it, I'll try the HD600 with the Vali for a while and report back.  I did try the HD600 for about 20 minutes when I first got the Vali (PAID FOR, not a review sample) and it removed the veil but did not add any bass weight so I need to see if it will be tonally a bit bright on the Pure DAC but better on the PWD due to better bass dynamics.


----------



## Makiah S

cee tee said:


> *Okay, maybe it is time to take a break.  I seriously can't follow everywhere you are going with your pairings and impressions and previous experience and current experience and possible experience.  *
> 
> I've been spending my time with the Vali and HD800 (inner fidelity Anax mod).  It is fantastic with the PWD and even with my lowly Pure i20 dock as the DAC.  Why?  The very slight things that the amp does are in really fine balance and just help the HD800 find a sweet spot between tone, resolution, clarity, and fatigue.
> 
> ...


 
 Happy to hear your enjoying it as well


----------



## TMRaven

tdockweiler said:


> As for MY poor synergy with the HD-650 and Vali. Could be my HD-650 is different than other pairs (or junk). I just know it sounds pretty amazing with the O2, Micro and anything else that's transparent (or close). I've never been a fan of the HD-650 before but I really love it now for once.


 
  
  
 Weren't you trying to sell or trade your Vali for an O2 a couple days ago?  I'm assuming since you've already made a couple comments about the O2 in relation to the Vali that you're trying to get a second O2 on top of the one you already have?
  
 On the topic of transparency, I thought you made a comment on the Vali being very transparent earlier in this thread?  At least with the Q701 or whatever.  I know you don't like the Vali with the HD650, but the Vali can't go from being transparent with the 701 then magically turn into something not transparent with the HD650.  Transparency itself is a very ambiguous and nonsensical word in the first place, but ideally something that is transparent should only bring through the sound of the headphone.  Just the way I've seen you comment in this thread and the HD650 thread makes it seem like you should stick with the O2, and never get any other amp, because you're always so quick to pass everything off as coloring the sound or adding things that shouldn't be there.  Staying with the O2 would probably save a lot of headache on your part and others'.


----------



## tdockweiler

cee tee said:


> *Okay, maybe it is time to take a break.  I seriously can't follow everywhere you are going with your pairings and impressions and previous experience and current experience and possible experience.  *
> 
> I've been spending my time with the Vali and HD800 (inner fidelity Anax mod).  It is fantastic with the PWD and even with my lowly Pure i20 dock as the DAC.  Why?  The very slight things that the amp does are in really fine balance and just help the HD800 find a sweet spot between tone, resolution, clarity, and fatigue.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I actually took about a 1 month break before I got the Vali! I do understand that my impressions are usually all over the place and I don't edit myself much.
  
 I'm sure there will be some headphones that are amazing with the Vali and others that are not so good. I have no problem with this. Somehow I have a feeling that the HD-800 is closer in sound to my (bass) modded Q701 than the HD-650. People have compared the K712 to the HD-800 and K712 is very similar to the modded Q701. I bet i'd love the HD-800 on the Vali! DT-800 should be nice too.
  
 My guess is that the HD-600 will be slightly better on the Vali compared to the HD-650 to my ears.
  
 People should try to find faults of the Vali. What is wrong with this? I pick apart all my gear and headphones. My guess is that the Vali is not so good with headphones with a closed in soundstage and that are too warm and bassy. I might be wrong though.
  
 I do have to question why the Vali added nasty colorations to my HD-650 and DJ100 but not with my AKGs.
  
 Someone with dozens of headphones of all kinds should try the Vali and report back. This would be the most useful post in this thread.
  
 BTW I have to remind people again that I didn't hate the Vali


----------



## tdockweiler

tmraven said:


> Weren't you trying to sell or trade your Vali for an O2 a couple days ago?  I'm assuming since you've already made a couple comments about the O2 in relation to the Vali that you're trying to get a second O2 on top of the one you already have?
> 
> On the topic of transparency, I thought you made a comment on the Vali being very transparent earlier in this thread?  At least with the Q701 or whatever.  I know you don't like the Vali with the HD650, but the Vali can't go from being transparent with the 701 then magically turn into something not transparent with the HD650.  Transparency itself is a very ambiguous and nonsensical word in the first place, but ideally something that is transparent should only bring through the sound of the headphone.  Just the way I've seen you comment in this thread and the HD650 thread makes it seem like you should stick with the O2, and never get any other amp, because you're always so quick to pass everything off as coloring the sound or adding things that shouldn't be there.  Staying with the O2 would probably save a lot of headache on your part and others'.


 
  
 That's the most interesting post you've made to me in awhile and you're correct on most parts.
 I had the O2 and loved it, but it was not quite as good as my Micro. I was stupid and said "but this treble could be a little smoother" and sold it and tried another amp. Remind me not to do something that dumb again...
 O2 is great but it's not the world's best amp under $500.
  
 When I tried the modded Q701 with the Vali (on ANY source) it sounded amazing. I was almost a raving fanboy of that combo. It seemed totally transparent and without any change at all from my Micro Amp. No fuller mids, no smoother treble. No nothing. Same results on the K400. The Micro (only with Astrodyne) is like an O2, but perhaps 1% fuller mids and very very slightly smoother treble. Ultra subtle differences.
  
 You're exactly right that an amp can't go from being transparent from one headphone to colored on the next. This is a big mystery. I would say the Vali +  Denon 1920 (2x WM8740) + HD-650 was kind of enjoyable, but a warmth overdose. My only idea is that it's just not a good match, but some seem to love it. Again, maybe my HD-650 is goofy. If people want to say I have bad hearing that is OK!
  
 My idea of a transparent amp is just something that sounds equally good with 90% (maybe not IEMs or Orthos) of headphones out there without it changing them too much. If what I attach is slightly colored then I expect to hear it. Nope, I didn't cut and paste all that nonsense from the NWWAVV guy website. I love how with my Micro and the O2 I could attach anything as a source without the amp changing a thing. I could get my Micro to sound like a crappy Coby 512mb player if I wanted. Ok maybe with slight improvements. Magni was not too far off from this description too.
  
 I like some nice coloration at times. I'm ok with the warmer sounding Wolfson DACs and the E17 has some nice coloration as well. When I bought the Vali I would have been crazy to expect it to be transparent.
  
 I probably go through too many amps, but for me to keep it, it needs to be perfect. My goal all along has been to top what I already have (under $500) and the O2 got the closest. I didn't really buy the Vali to do this though and that's pretty important.
  
 BTW I got the Ifi iCAN and an O2 incoming. Yes, i'm sorry to say that I swapped the Vali out for an O2. Vali is better for the Q701 though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So I guess I took your advice yesterday and got another O2. Should have kept it!
  
 I really need to go to a meet and try a bunch of amps. I will try not to get beaten up while i'm there


----------



## GaryPham

Sorry if this question has already been answered previously (didn't want to scroll through 120 pages of this thread), but has anyone used the Vali with a pair of 600 ohm DT880s?  I ask for my cousin, as he's looking for an amp to pair with his Asus Xonar ST.  For the 600 ohm DT880 specifically, how does the Vali compare to the Magni?  Would either provide a significant improvement over the Xonar ST's internal amp?


----------



## Zalithian

Hooray, my cables have arrived. . Time to get going.
  
 Hi Gary. The general consensus seems to be that the Magni is more versatile and the Vali is a little warmer. If you have a 'bright' pair of headphones then the Vali might be a better choice.


----------



## Makiah S

garypham said:


> Sorry if this question has already been answered previously (didn't want to scroll through 120 pages of this thread), but has anyone used the Vali with a pair of 600 ohm DT880s?  I ask for my cousin, as he's looking for an amp to pair with his Asus Xonar ST.  For the 600 ohm DT880 specifically, how does the Vali compare to the Magni?  Would either provide a significant improvement over the Xonar ST's internal amp?


 
 well seeing as it matches nicely with the HD 800 and and the AKG K7XX series headphones, it should go nice with the DT 880. The DT 880 shares a simmilar sound sig with the HD 800, ofc the HD 800 has better mirco details ect... ect... ect... what ever
  
 Either way, for bright headphones the Vali seems to work nicely


----------



## purrin

garypham said:


> Sorry if this question has already been answered previously (didn't want to scroll through 120 pages of this thread), but has anyone used the Vali with a pair of 600 ohm DT880s?  I ask for my cousin, as he's looking for an amp to pair with his Asus Xonar ST.  For the 600 ohm DT880 specifically, how does the Vali compare to the Magni?  Would either provide a significant improvement over the Xonar ST's internal amp?


 
  
 Personally, I would NOT go Magni with the DT880/600. The DT880/600 is a great headphone from Beyer, probably my favorite, and this includes all the newer Tesla stuff which really aren't all that great compared to the 880/600. The DT880/600 have a nice smooth tonal balance with the exception of being slightly hot in the mid-treble or having a slight metallic quality to the treble. The Magni's tendency to be lean or slightly bright or splashy or steely would not be best. Vali will easily be the winner. Besides, the Beyer 880/600 seem to love tubes. (A great combo with the Vahalla.) The Magni is a good amp for the price. The Vali is exceptional provided there are no issues with noise or impedance mismatches.
  


tdockweiler said:


> I had the O2 and loved it, but it was not quite as good as my Micro. I was stupid and said "but this treble could be a little smoother" and sold it and tried another amp. Remind me not to do something that dumb again...


 
  
 Replace stock voltage gain op-amp in O2 with LM4562 / LME49720 to take some of the stridency away from the O2.


----------



## TheGame

zalithian said:


> You will need a USB A male - USB B male cable. it's like modern printer USB cables I guess. One is the normal USB connector and the other side is square opposed to rectangular. I only had usb micro cables so I needed the usb cable and RCA.
> 
> edit: The Vali does come with a power cable.


 

 The Vali just uses RCA cables right? The USB A male - USB B Male cable is just for the Modi correct?


----------



## Zalithian

thegame said:


> The Vali just uses RCA cables right? The USB A male - USB B Male cable is just for the Modi correct?


 

 Right.


----------



## TheGame

zalithian said:


> Right.


 

 Thanks, the way the original post was worded, I thought I might need other cables besides RCA for the Vali, I just misunderstood the post. Thank you Zalithian for clearing that up, much appreciated!


----------



## Zalithian

thegame said:


> Thanks, the way the original post was worded, I thought I might need other cables besides RCA for the Vali, I just misunderstood the post. Thank you Zalithian for clearing that up, much appreciated!




No problem. It was my fault. In my mind I automatically paired them together because a lot of people get the Modi and Vali/Magni as a stack.


----------



## TheGame

No Problem! Your reply was a real help, I was concerned about the cable issue. I am supposed to get my Vali tomorrow and I was worried I'd have to rush out and get more cables! So thank you very much for clearing that up for me!


----------



## RMiller

fraggler said:


> Wow!  Your very first post on Headfi is to tell someone he is full of it?  Nice!


 
  
 Obviously a (double) account made for that purpose alone, that's a common thing on net forums


----------



## Transformatron

I figured I would ask one last time before I pull the trigger. I will be using my Modi (ordered) and Vali/Magni with my HiFiMan HE-300 that is modded to remove the dark sound and bring out the treble a little bit. I'm looking to give the midrange and bass a little more presence again. I feel like the Vali will give me the sound I'm looking for more than the possibly bright Magni. I'll be getting an HE-400 come tax time also.


----------



## Solarium

I'm on the verge of ordering the Vali to go along with my X-Fi Titanium HD sound card as DAC, using a HD598 (with plan to upgrade to HD600/650 in the future). I already ordered the Magni and have gotten the box from amazon (unopened so I can return the package without penalties). Do you guys think it's worth it for me to go ahead and return the Magni and get the Vali instead?
  
 Is the SQ "upgrade" from Magni significant? I do want a "warmer" sound to complement the HD598's more colder and analytical sound. I also hear that the Vali has more of a bass boost which IMO the HD598 much needs. How do you guys with the HD598 like the transition from Magni to Vali?
  
 One thing I think that may be bothersome is the ringing sound every time the amp vibrates. I will be putting this on a computer desk where I will be typing, the desk will be pretty stable, but the keyboard and mouse pad will be pretty much right next to it. Will this create problems for me?
  
 I pretty much read most of this thread using the search with "HD600/650" "HD598" "Magni" as a subject, but any more contributions would be appreciated.


----------



## Zalithian

For me the ringing thing is not even worth mentioning. It lasts like two seconds. Perhaps it depends a lot on the unit and some others are worse in this regard. I use the Modi/Vali about 1 foot from my laptop and I don't have any vibration problems.


----------



## imackler

The ringing on mine is only noticeable at turn on and if I tap the case.  Really impressive.


----------



## jbarrentine

Re: 598 - it's very nice with the Vali. I feel I'm getting everything out of this particular HP I can. 
  
 Regarding ringing: Mine doesn't ring when I type. I didn't put the feet on mine, I put it on some of that thick rubbery material which is put into utensil drawers to keep stuff from sliding around. I just cut an appropriate size for it. I don't unplug so I don't have experience with ringing from that. The only time I personally hear ringing is during startup, and that's maybe 15 seconds.


----------



## Maxx134

tdockweiler said:


> ..
> I'm sure there will be some headphones that are amazing with the Vali and others that are not so good...



Sounds to me you are hearing differences due to impedance, 
But I could be wrong, it could just all be in your mind..(!) Lol

Actually no one will hear the same because no two ears and ear canals are shaped the same...
That's why I believe we need reference points..
For exanple, component "A" sounds a certain way, in comparison to component "B".. So we have a common denominator to base subjective impressions upon..



tdockweiler said:


> You're exactly right that an amp can't go from being transparent from one headphone to colored on the next. This is a big mystery...



Why not? Changes in sound is very common among the tube amps that like higher impedance cans..



tdockweiler said:


> I probably go through too many amps, but for me to keep it, it needs to be perfect. My goal all along has been to top what I already have (under $500) and the O2 got the closest. I didn't really buy the Vali to do this though and that's pretty important.
> 
> BTW I got the Ifi iCAN and an O2 incoming. Yes, i'm sorry to say that I swapped the Vali out for an O2. Vali is better for the Q701 though
> 
> ...




Dam I would have given you my O2 for a vali in a heartbeat..
My ALO Continental V2 sounds much, much better to me.
Then again I guess I can do the op amp swap and see if I can improve its sterile sound.

The botrom line is that in the end, I rather have an amp that I can truly "enjoy the music" so I abandoned the "transparent amp" philosophy because there is no such thing(!) In reality..
It is an impossibility that many refuse to believe .

Even thousand dollar amps will have their own sonic impression..
They ALL come across with a sonic impression no matter how good it is...

So I rather have an amp that is sweet.. OR WET... 
Than an amp that "tries" to be neutral and transparent,
 wich almost always will come off as cold and analytic and strident and lifeless and etc.. Add homonym...
HA!


----------



## TheGame

solarium said:


> I'm on the verge of ordering the Vali to go along with my X-Fi Titanium HD sound card as DAC, using a HD598 (with plan to upgrade to HD600/650 in the future). I already ordered the Magni and have gotten the box from amazon (unopened so I can return the package without penalties). Do you guys think it's worth it for me to go ahead and return the Magni and get the Vali instead?
> 
> Is the SQ "upgrade" from Magni significant? I do want a "warmer" sound to complement the HD598's more colder and analytical sound. I also hear that the Vali has more of a bass boost which IMO the HD598 much needs. How do you guys with the HD598 like the transition from Magni to Vali?
> 
> ...


 

 I just ordered a Vali to go along with my Titanium HD soundcard, the Vali is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I'll be using it with the HD650's and Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm cans. I can let you know my opinion on the sound of the Vali with the Titanium HD tomorrow as I will be listening to the Vali with the Titanium HD as soon as it arrives! SO if you check this thread tomorrow, I can give you my impressions with the Vali paired with the Titanium HD as the DAC and with the HD 650's as the cans.


----------



## purrin

maxx134 said:


> The bottom line is that in the end, I rather have an amp that I can truly "enjoy the music" so I abandoned the "transparent amp" philosophy because there is no such thing(!) In reality..
> It is an impossibility that many refuse to believe .


 
  
 May the Force be with you.


----------



## thegunner100

So I took some time to do some listening and comparisons between the nfb-10es2’s amp section, the Vali, and the project sunrise (full music 12U7 tube) fed by the nfb-10es2’s dac section and then fed to the hd800s and hd600s.
  
 I think I’m lucky and got a pretty good unit, as the only way to get the amp to ring is by plugging in the headphones or hitting a metal piece (like my xlr adapter) onto the chassis. There is a little bit of floor noise with the hd600 and hd800 while no music is playing, but is inaudible once something starts playing. The Vali was too noisy for my UERMs, so I suspect it won’t work well with other CIEMs either.The build quality is great, but I wish that the power LED was a bit dimmer... for now, I just put some electric tape over the LED opening.
  
 Moving onto the Vali's sound...
  
 Vali – This is an amazing intro to tubes at just $119. Overall the amp is fairly neutral and does not add much coloration to the sound. As for soundstaging, the amp has good width but is lacking in depth. As a result, the Vali makes your music sound more upfront. The Vali is very dynamic sounding and does not smear quieter sounds when louder sounds are being played at the same time. Like mentioned by purrin, the Vali adds some “wetness” to the sound, which can be quite pleasant, especially with brighter headphones. I also notice some slight warmth, likely due to the slower decay. As for the treble, the Vali does not roll off at all but does seem to make the treble slightly smooth.
  
 Vali w/ hd800 (Anax 2.0) – Fantastic synergy. The Vali is completely cable of driving the hd800s both sound quality wise and volume wise. The wetness that the Vali adds makes the hd800 very musical and euphonic to listen to. The bass is impactful, and the mids have a nice thickness to them that makes vocals more seductive to listen to. The upfrontness of the Vali works well to the hd800 imo, which I felt was kind of distant sometimes. The width of the hd800 is slightly hindered by the Vali but it is a minor con. $119 amp with a $1500 headphone? Totally works.
  
 Vali w/ hd600 – Ehhh… Not that great of a pairing. The characteristics of the Vali does not mix well with the hd600 imo. The mids of the hd600 are already upfront and have some thickness to it already, and I feel that the Vali adds a bit too much to it. The hd600s are not known for their soundstage and the Vali hinders it way too much. Everything sounds clustered, congested, and in your face.
  
 12/17/2013 edit: Well, I spent a little more time with the vali and hd600 combo today and it actually doesn't seem to be as bad as I thought it was initially when i wrote this. I think it's mainly because I'm just really used to how the hd800s sound, and the hd600s feel very closed in and upfront in comparison. It's a fine combo. 
  
 Vali vs the NFB-10es2’s amp section (w/ warm jumpers in place) – Both the hd800s and hd600s used the balanced output of the 10es2 for this test. The hd800 is excellent with the nfb-10es2 but I like the tonality of the Vali much more. The main thing that the 10es2 wins over the Vali is in soundstaging. It is a little bit wider, and certainly has more depth to it. Overall the 10es2 just sounds… cleaner, which works well for some genres. The hd600, when balanced, sound much better with the 10es2 compared to the Vali. The strong points of the 10es2 helps balance out the weak points of the hd600s. The hd600s sound much more open with the 10es2.
  
 Vali vs Project Sunrise (Full Music 12AU7) – No contest here, the Vali wins over the Sunrise in pretty much every way, especially at less than ½ the price of the Sunrise. Well okay, the Sunrise is quieter (no audible hiss), and probably works with more headphones than the Vali. But to my ears, the Vali sounds better than the Sunrise with the hd800s.
  
 Vali & Dacs – I’m going to reiterate what others have said: you NEED a good dac to get the most out of this amp. The NFB10-es2 is a good pairing and feels like it brings out most if not all of the Vali (I don’t have any $1000+ dacs so I dunno). The DX50 did okay… but wasn’t quite up there with the 10es2. The hifimediy dac (non async) was complete **** with the Vali. It made the vali + hd800 sound thin and somewhat closed in.
  
 Props to Schiit for making this fantastic amp. While it works well with the hd800s, it doesn’t seem to pair well with the hd600s imo. I can’t speak for other headphones, but it seems like the vali would work well for brighter headphones. There are limitations to the Vali like microphonics, high output impedance, soundstage depth, headphone matching. But if you have a pair of headphones that synergizes well with the Vali, it is a champ for just $119. But I really have to reiterate, you have to get a good dac to get the most out of the Vali.
  
 IMO, YMMV, caveat emptor, etc etc.
  
  
 Added 12/16/2013: Comparison between Vali and Little Dot MK III
  
 I did all of my comparing with the hd800 (anax 2.0 modded) while my friend used his hd600s (old black drivers). The little dot was equipped with the Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 tubes. Overall our impressions between the two were very similar; with me noticing more differences than he did. 
  
 Soundstage - It felt like the little dot had a little bit more depth to it than the vali, however, the vali was a little bit wider. The Vali's soundstage was more coherent, with the instruments and vocals filling the soundstage more appropiately. 
  
 Bass - The Vali was punchier, and also brought out more subbass than the little dot.
  
 Mids - The vali had more wetness to it than the little dot, despite it being a a hybrid compared to a OTL. The mids on the vali were more enjoyable than on the little dot.
  
 Treble - The vali was slightly brighter than the little dot and stood out more, due to the lively nature of the vali. It was also more detailed as well.
  
 Other comments - The vali was more dynamic and lively sounding whereas the little dot is the typical OTL tube amp with its warm sounding and smooth nature. However due to the smoothness, the amp was lacking dynamics. The bass and cymbals hit harder on the vali, which I felt was more true to the track's nature  The Vali was more revealing and transparent than the little dot and brings out more of your dac than the little dot does. It will scale better with your dacs than the little dot as well.


----------



## Transformatron

transformatron said:


> I figured I would ask one last time before I pull the trigger. I will be using my Modi (ordered) and Vali/Magni with my HiFiMan HE-300 that is modded to remove the dark sound and bring out the treble a little bit. I'm looking to give the midrange and bass a little more presence again. I feel like the Vali will give me the sound I'm looking for more than the possibly bright Magni. I'll be getting an HE-400 come tax time also.


 
 Anybody? Going to click buy on the Vali...


----------



## BournePerfect

Very nice impressions Gunner!
  
 -Tari>Chuck Norris


----------



## NinjaHamster

transformatron said:


> I figured I would ask one last time before I pull the trigger. I will be using my Modi (ordered) and Vali/Magni with my HiFiMan HE-300 that is modded to remove the dark sound and bring out the treble a little bit. I'm looking to give the midrange and bass a little more presence again. I feel like the Vali will give me the sound I'm looking for more than the possibly bright Magni. I'll be getting an HE-400 come tax time also.


 
  
  


transformatron said:


> Anybody? Going to click buy on the Vali...


 
  
 What was the question ?  Or where was the question ?


----------



## Transformatron

ninjahamster said:


> What was the question ?  Or where was the question ?


 
 Sorry, Vali vs. Magni for HE-300. Looking for midrange and bass presence.


----------



## NinjaHamster

I haven't heard the Vali, but from all reports it should suit you well - it is still a tube amp, and that "wetness" that people have described certainly sounds like what you are after.


----------



## Transformatron

ninjahamster said:


> I haven't heard the Vali, but from all reports it should suit you well - it is still a tube amp, and that "wetness" that people have described certainly sounds like what you are after.


 
 Good thing I already ordered!


----------



## Maxx134

thegunner100 said:


> So I took some time to do some listening and comparisons between the nfb-10es2’s amp section, the Vali, and the project sunrise (full music 12U7 tube) fed by the nfb-10es2’s dac section and then fed to the hd800s and hd600s.
> 
> I think I’m lucky and got a pretty good unit, as the only way to get the amp to ring is by plugging in the headphones or hitting a metal piece (like my xlr adapter) onto the chassis. There is a little bit of floor noise with the hd600 and hd800 while no music is playing, but is inaudible once something starts playing. The Vali was too noisy for my UERMs, so I suspect it won’t work well with other CIEMs either.The build quality is great, but I wish that the power LED was a bit dimmer... for now, I just put some electric tape over the LED opening.
> 
> ...



Wow there you go... 
The best review in this thread so far!


----------



## saer

Any info on how this compares to the Asgard 2, paired with HE-500s?


----------



## Beagle

Just got my Vali yesterday. Having a problem. If I touch the volume control even slightly, or touch the headphone cord, I get this long ringing in the right channel. I know tubes can ring when subject to vibration but should it occur this easily?


----------



## Solarium

thegame said:


> I just ordered a Vali to go along with my Titanium HD soundcard, the Vali is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I'll be using it with the HD650's and Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm cans. I can let you know my opinion on the sound of the Vali with the Titanium HD tomorrow as I will be listening to the Vali with the Titanium HD as soon as it arrives! SO if you check this thread tomorrow, I can give you my impressions with the Vali paired with the Titanium HD as the DAC and with the HD 650's as the cans.


 
 Would be great, waiting for hear from ya!


----------



## Zalithian

I think the Vali will sound a lot better with the 990's than 650's.


----------



## FraGGleR

beagle said:


> Just got my Vali yesterday. Having a problem. If I touch the volume control even slightly, or touch the headphone cord, I get this long ringing in the right channel. I know tubes can ring when subject to vibration but should it occur this easily?


 
 Any ringing that I get when changing volume is pretty low and short.  Haven't noticed anything when moving stuff around, though my sonic boom sneezes trigger the ringing.  Yours sounds like it might be one of the more sensitive ones if it happens with so little touch.
  
 One thing I have noticed is that after the tubes have been warmed up for a while (30min or so), susceptibility to ringing seems reduced.


----------



## 2g2gan

So far I like what i'm hearing on this combo:  Vali+Bifrost-uber+HD650. No issues at all except for that initial ringing sound.


----------



## jbarrentine

beagle said:


> Just got my Vali yesterday. Having a problem. If I touch the volume control even slightly, or touch the headphone cord, I get this long ringing in the right channel. I know tubes can ring when subject to vibration but should it occur this easily?


 
  
 Someone else noted that when theirs rang like that they looked inside and one of the tubes was propped up off the pad it sits on. They pushed it down with something and the ringing subsided. If you look inside and see similar, I would send it for an exchange or get schiit to work on it. 
  
 For what it's worth, mine never rings when I change the volume.


----------



## palchiu

I take Vali to my friend's place, use Playback MPS3 and pluged apadter to PS P5.
  
 Use with LCD3, Vali is awesome!


----------



## worldtipper

I was the guy who traded my O2 for tdock's Vali, couldn't be happier and glad that tdock has his supreme amp on the way. Anywho, the Vali really makes notice of your DAC. I've never thought I had ears keen enough to differentiate a DAC but with a Modi vs. Mav Audio D1, it's very clear and exciting as I'm really able to appreciate how nice the Modi is. The D1 will go to the speaker system.
  
 As for the Vali? With Modi and my HE-400's I've never heard audio quite like this. The wetness, smooth mids and full sound added to the HE-400's pleasing (IMO) sound sig I'm in heaven. Also, the finish of it is fantastic. Maybe all the little Schiit's have this finish now but my early MM combo have the powder/clear coat that looks gummy, while the Vali/new finish is a sweet matte/textured silver. I like  visually pleasing piece of gear and this thing really does it for me.
  
 p.s. the microphonics on mine are pretty annoying...the initial ring is there which I don't mind, it sounds cool actually. However there's the same constant right channel low volume ring as mentioned in a previous post. I'll pop it open and try to seat it and see if that works.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

worldtipper said:


> As for the Vali? With Modi and my HE-400's I've never heard audio quite like this. The wetness, smooth mids and full sound added to the HE-400's pleasing (IMO) sound sig I'm in heaven. Also, the finish of it is fantastic. Maybe all the little Schiit's have this finish now but my early MM combo have the powder/clear coat that looks gummy, while the Vali/new finish is a sweet matte/textured silver. I like  visually pleasing piece of gear and this thing really does it for me.


 

 I'm trying to resist purchasing one until I can test one at next months meet..... but just for info; any mods to your HE400?


----------



## worldtipper

soundsgoodtome said:


> I'm trying to resist purchasing one until I can test one at next months meet..... but just for info; any mods to your HE400?


 

 Just some JergPads. I'm curious to try the velours again with the vali as for comfort, I prefer them but the highs were obnoxious.


----------



## jbarrentine

worldtipper said:


> I'll pop it open and try to seat it and see if that works.


 
  
 Remember opening it voids warranty. I would look inside through the vents to see if the tube is out of place.


----------



## Zalithian

soundsgoodtome said:


> I'm trying to resist purchasing one until I can test one at next months meet..... but just for info; any mods to your HE400?




I can confirm the HE400 sounds great on the Vali, with unmodded velour pads. I could see how the highs annoy some though.


----------



## worldtipper

jbarrentine said:


> Remember opening it voids warranty. I would look inside through the vents to see if the tube is out of place.


 

 Arg, thanks for the heads. From what I can see with a flashlight the tubes have the foam backing but while the left tube is pretty close to the board, the right tube is more and an angle. So the foam backing isn't resting against the board. Would that do it?


----------



## olor1n

The Vali is the real deal folks. There's some pixie dust magic synergy happening with the HD800. Damn impressive for the price.


----------



## K.T.

For those just getting into tubes for the first time, it's worth pointing out that you're unlikely to run into very many, if any, commercially produced tube amps that are as microphonic as the Vali. This level of ringing is uncommon in the vast majority of tube preamps/amps.

I applaud Schiit for prioritizing sound quality over the convenience of low microphonics. The ringing is undeniable, but it is manageable, and the tube sounds great. A very acceptable trade-off for a fantastic sounding amp at the $119 price point.

When you get to more expensive tube amps (or much, much more expensive tube amps) this level of ringing is simply unacceptable to the customer (or do the amps manufacturers simply believe that to be the case?). Thus, most tube amps are specced with tubes that avoid microphony.

So if Vali starts you down the tube road, which I expect it will for many of you, expect the issue of ringing to be less prevalent as you explore other tubed products.


----------



## K.T.

It's also worth noting that tubes this microphonic can only be used in a headphone amp.

If used in a stereo preamp or amp, the sound waves and vibration from the speakers would create an endless feedback loop of ringing.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

What exactly causes microphonics on a tube?


----------



## mhamel

soundsgoodtome said:


> What exactly causes microphonics on a tube?


 
  
http://www.thevalvepage.com/valvetek/microph/microph.htm


----------



## TheGame

I have read a lot in this thread that a lot feel the Vali doesn't pair well with the HD 650's. Would that have more to do with HD650 themselves or perhaps the DAC they are using with the Vali fpr the HD 650's? Personally, I like the "Darker" sound of the HD 650's and that they are colored a bit. Sure I like a flat-neutral headphone, but sometimes I just like to sit back and enjoy the music ya know? Being a beginner in the audiophile world, I only have a budget setup, that after spending many hours here can see my wallet emptying extremely fast to upgrade.
  
 Anyway, after reading many posts about members stating that they feel that the HD 650's do not pair well with the Vali has me a little worried. Sure, the Vali is only $119 tube amp, but I am on a budget at this time of year because of Christmas. (keep in mind I am going from a similar priced FiiO E09K Solid-STate amp, which for me sounds good for the price).
  
 I am hoping that the Vali pairs well with the Titanium HD, and since I do like a darker, warmer tone maybe I'll be ok. And if I have to, I should be able to tweak the EQ a little if needed to get the sound I am looking for.
  
 What do you guys think? I guess I will find out later today, but would like anyone's thoughts on the Vali paired with the Titanium HD, which a lot of members have stated has a pretty good DAC (24 bit / 192 kHz
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TheGame

solarium said:


> Would be great, waiting for hear from ya!


 

 No Problem my friend! I should have a post in later Friday evening after a few hours of listening.


----------



## Zalithian

I think it's not necessarily that the Vali and 650 is a bad combo, but it seems like it needs a really good DAC to shine if you do use that combo.


----------



## purrin

thegame said:


> I have read a lot in this thread that a lot feel the Vali doesn't pair well with the HD 650's. Would that have more to do with HD650 themselves or perhaps the DAC they are using with the Vali fpr the HD 650's? Personally, I like the "Darker" sound of the HD 650's and that they are colored a bit. Sure I like a flat-neutral headphone, but sometimes I just like to sit back and enjoy the music ya know? Being a beginner in the audiophile world, I only have a budget setup, that after spending many hours here can see my wallet emptying extremely fast to upgrade.


 
  
 Don't worry about it. It's only one guy who didn't like the HD650 and another who preferred the Magni with the HD650. I can see why. There are all sorts of factors, such as personal preference, DAC, etc. If you like the dark and laid back nature of the HD650, you are not going to hate the Vali / HD650 combo.


----------



## olor1n

There's been more praise over the HD650 pairing than not. It's really just been one vocal individual with nonsensical impressions blanketing the generally positive findings of others. I'll give the HD650 a listen later. Just can't tear away from the HD800 at the moment.


----------



## TheGame

purrin said:


> Don't worry about it. It's only one guy who didn't like the HD650 and another who preferred the Magni with the HD650. I can see why. There are all sorts of factors, such as personal preference, DAC, etc. If you like the dark and laid back nature of the HD650, you are not going to hate the Vali / HD650 combo.


 
  
  


olor1n said:


> There's been more praise over the HD650 pairing than not. It's really just been one vocal individual with nonsensical impressions blanketing the generally positive findings of others. I'll give the HD650 a listen later. Just can't tear away from the HD800 at the moment.


 
  


>


 Thank you purrin and olor1n for the confidence booster, I feel better about it now - really thank you!


----------



## K.T.

I can confirm that the Vali sounds great driving that budget classic, the JVC HA-S400. 

Really nice budget setup!


----------



## kstuart

Okay, I've checked again and was able to verify my first impression of the Vali.
  
 I'll try explaining it in a different way.
  
 Purrin and some friends compiled a DAC Comparison*, which has a list of audio qualities that are checked and compared - and timbre is not one of them. Hmmm.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Timbre is accurate rendition of the harmonics of a sound.  What makes a violin sound different from a trumpet is partially the "envelope" of the waveform - changes in amplitude over time - and partially the harmonics of the sound.  The Vali does really well with the first part, and less well with the second part.
  
 When you hear the really good rendition of the envelope of the waveform, it is enough to give you a good identification of the instrument.  Unless you are comparing to another amp in a short term A-B-A-B with the same track, which is hard to do with the Vali due to the ringing every time you unplug the headphones, you would not notice the poorer timbre.
  
 Going back to the DAC Comparison, it has "Micro-Dynamics" and "Macro-Dynamics" and also "Tonal Balance"  If you rename "Tonal Balance" to be "Macro-Tonal Balance", then what I am referring to is "Micro-Tonal Balance" - Tonal Balance within an instrument.
  
 --
  
 (* It looks like purrin started a thread today about the comparison, but without the audio qualities list.)


----------



## tdockweiler

purrin said:


> Don't worry about it. It's only one guy who didn't like the HD650 and another who preferred the Magni with the HD650. I can see why. There are all sorts of factors, such as personal preference, DAC, etc.* If you like the dark and laid back nature of the HD650, you are not going to hate the Vali / HD650 combo.*


 
  
 Have you tried any budget DACs (under $300) with the Vali + HD-650 yet that are a good match? I'm just curious. It'd be helpful I think to most people. Perhaps there are some better than others for this pairing. Maybe I would have gotten better results with an ODAC. My leanest sounding DAC (CS4398) seemed to sound best with it. I was trying to like what I heard but just couldn't do it. Didn't even sit there and over-analyze things. I stopped doing that years ago because it ruined the fun. Yes, I actually listen to music for fun. Probably a surprise to some..
  
 I'm not here to try to ruin anyone's fun and really would like to figure out why my experience was so bad with the HD-650. It's a mystery. I tried it for at least 8 hours with maybe 6 different sources. I won't post anything further about the Vali. If I had a bigger collection of headphones like before, I'd have kept it.
  
 There really hasn't been enough impressions yet with the HD-650 for there to be a general consensus. If it's great to most people with the HD-650, then I won't be surprised. I imagine people who love the HD-650 on the Asgard 2 would love it on the Vali. Not sure..I could be wrong.
  
 BTW I remember once hating the HD-650 on the Asgard 1 but loving the HD-600 on it. This could be something similar to that. Chances are I'd prefer the HD-600 on the Vali.


----------



## K.T.

Tdock,

Do you attribute what you're hearing to personal preference, or does something clearly sound "broken" in your setup?

In other words, can you imagine that someone with different sonic taste might appreciate what you're hearing?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have good results with 650 and Vali here. However if I had tried 6 sources over 8 hours I think i would have been completely confused. I have almost 200 hrs now under the belt of Vali and have only just started thinking about another dac and a third headphone. Take time and enjoy the music, no need to rush to a black and white judgement on certain hardware.


----------



## TheGame

Awesome to hear!!


----------



## K.T.

So here's my one big gripe with the Vali. With the Magni, too, for that matter.

That white power indicator light on front is way too dang bright! What I mean to say is that, it is WAAAAAY too dang bright!

I was going to use one of these as my bedside amp. But I like it dark as I head to sleepyland and, boy, this will really affect my getting to sleep. I could tape it up at the front, but you'll all notice the light illuminates the inside of the amp from the backside of the bulb. That bright white light is clearly visible through the vent holes on top.

If it were up to me, I'd say the little orange biasing LEDs inside the amp are enough to let me know that the amp is on. When it's dark, you can see it illuminate the edges of the vent holes. Or just look inside at the top if your not sure. The gentle orange glow is easy on the eyes at night and is very dim.

Or if the indicator light were at least red, it would be much less disruptive in the dark.

So I cannot use either the Vali or the Magni as my bedside amp for this bright white light.

Once the warranty period ends, I'm going to open up both amps and desolder or snip out those power indicator lights for sure.


----------



## julzd

k.t. said:


> That white power indicator light on front is way too dang bright! What I mean to say is that, it is WAAAAAY too dang bright!
> 
> I was going to use one of these as my bedside *L*amp.


----------



## olor1n

Ok, the Vali driven HD650 is rad. I may just prefer it over the balanced output from the Mjolnir. Holy-schiit-balls!


----------



## tdockweiler

k.t. said:


> Tdock,
> 
> Do you attribute what you're hearing to personal preference, or does something clearly sound "broken" in your setup?
> 
> In other words, can you imagine that someone with different sonic taste might appreciate what you're hearing?


 
  
 These comments are for the HD-650 pairing ONLY...
 I'll try to explain this as nicely as possible so I don't get anyone even more mad at me. I don't actually think it's due to preferences at all. Hard to believe I know...
 When I heard the HD-650 with it the first time I was disgusted with the resulting sound and the first reaction was almost instantly that it's probably just not a good match. That's it.
  
 My HD-650 sounded *severely* "OFF". It wasn't just a tiny bit of coloration, but major colorations. If anyone didn't notice, I've not once said the Vali sounded warm or colored with my Q701 or K400.
 I doubt if anyone heard it the EXACT same way I did they would like it. There's no way. It was that bad..
 OK, so here is the question..if you like the HD-650 + Vali did you hear major coloration? Was it severely congested, muffled and too forward in the low mids? With very sloppy bass? Most likely a 100% NO. Then most likely it sounded as good of a match as my Q701.
  
 I don't doubt people find the HD-650 + Vali amazing. I wish I got the same results. People will want to say it's a case of crappy gear, but it's not. I have the HD-650 sounding great on almost everything I own. The HD-650 LOVES the Modi and my Micro DAC.
  
 Once I heard these issues I immediately plugged in my K400 and Q701...dead neutral without much coloration. What the heck?
  
 The Vali gave the EXACT same colorations to my DJ100 as well, but even more magnified. You know what it sounded like? A severely under-driven DJ100 and HD-650. Impossible! No, that wasn't the case obviously.
  
 I switched between a ton of sources and similar results.
  
 I made sure to check that my HD-650 was not broken and it's fine on everything else.
  
 I imagine I'd love the Vali on the DT-880, T90 or maybe even an HD-800. If the Vali sounds good on a K712/modded Q701, then chances are it'd be good on an HD-800 as well.
  
 Someone should try the Vali on some sort of bass monster and see what happens. The DT-990 is no bass monster, but it might be an interesting test.
  
 I bet the M50 would also be terrible on the Vali and not due to noise..


----------



## TheGame

k.t. said:


> So here's my one big gripe with the Vali. With the Magni, too, for that matter.
> 
> That white power indicator light on front is way too dang bright! What I mean to say is that, it is WAAAAAY too dang bright!
> 
> ...


 

 Here is an idea, and something I use to cover bright LED's. Use Color Gels that they use for stage lighting etc, they actually work really well and are semi-transparent. A color gel or color filter is a transparent colored material that is used in theatre, event production, photography, videography and cinematography to color light and for color correction. Modern gels are thin sheets of polycarbonate or polyester, placed in front of a lighting fixture in the path of the beam. You can pick the color you want.
  
 Here is an example on my PC. My Antec Veris Elite Multi-media Station is a really (I mean really) bright greenish color. I put a red-colored Gel in front of it and it looks great. Here is a pic:
  
 Before:

 After:
  

  
 Trust me before I added that color gel film that LED light on the Antec Veris was blinding! The Gel not only changed the color, but also dimmed it while still making it very easy to read. It's a very inexpensive option to try. You can find them at multiple stores, just do a search for Color Gels. Here is one link for you http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/american-dj-cgs-8a-8x8-gel-sheet-packet-a


----------



## TheGame

tdockweiler said:


> These comments are for the HD-650 pairing ONLY...
> I'll try to explain this as nicely as possible so I don't get anyone even more mad at me. I don't actually think it's due to preferences at all. Hard to believe I know...
> When I heard the HD-650 with it the first time I was disgusted with the resulting sound and the first reaction was almost instantly that it's probably just not a good match. That's it.
> 
> ...


 
 My Vali is scheduled for arrival today. I will let you know how it sounds with both the DT 990's and the ATH-M50's and my take on how they sound with the HD650's


----------



## tdockweiler

olor1n said:


> Ok, the Vali driven HD650 is rad. I may just prefer it over the balanced output from the Mjolnir. Holy-schiit-balls!


 
  
 That's good to hear. Now you should go do Schiit and everyone else a favor and post a review in the next few weeks. I would suggest adding "Holy-Schiit-Balls" as the review title.
 I think there's a few people that actually read those.
  
 Everyone loves the Vali, but only one review. What the heck guys..
 I guess it's only been out a week or so.
  
 I noticed that according to reviews the Valhalla is their highest rated amp.


----------



## Maxvla

Maybe they are busy listening and not analyzing.


----------



## olor1n

I can't add much to what's already been stated about the Vali. I concur with the other impressions. The Vali allows you to hear the quality of upstream components and files. It stands up admirably to the HD800 scrutiny. In fact it makes sweet freakin' music with the HD800. That's all that needs to be said really. It's not the be all (bass is a tad loose compared to the MJ)... but come on, it's a $119 amp! Amazing value.
  
 Good job Jason and co!


----------



## tdockweiler

maxvla said:


> Maybe they are busy listening and not analyzing.


 
  
 Haha, I stopped doing that years ago but I often have to remind myself to not do this!
  
 I have two amps coming in this weekend and I will try my best to listen to my music and not the equipment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I bet I will love the iFi iCAN..or not. I do hate the name though...about as bad as "Total Airhead".
 Not going to review them. You can thank me later!


----------



## UmustBKidn

thegame said:


> No disrespect to your comment laserfj, as I try to respect others opinions with an open-mind. But in my _"opinion"_ the term "wetness" that purrin used is a good way of describing the sound.


----------



## elwappo99

olor1n said:


> I can't add much to what's already been stated about the Vali. I concur with the other impressions. The Vali allows you to hear the quality of upstream components and files. It stands up admirably to the HD800 scrutiny. In fact it makes sweet freakin' music with the HD800. That's all that needs to be said really. It's not the be all (bass is a tad loose compared to the MJ)... but come on, it's a $119 amp! Amazing value.
> 
> Good job Jason and co!


 
  
 I've had mine for a week now. I haven't really said a whole lot about mine, but for whatever reason, it just has really fit in well. I think that bit of bass flow makes the Vali a really great match for my Q701. Acoustic instruments really hit a sweet spot with that combination.


----------



## UmustBKidn

brhfl said:


> I used to do the reinstall Windows once-a-year-or-so thing as well, now I tend to reboot my Mac about as often
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mac? Their OS went in the trash. It's now a *nix clone.
  
 I remember a Solaris ad from somewhere around 1997, that had one of those comparisons with Windows in it. It went something like this:
  
 - Fred has rebooted his PC 3 times today.
 - Joe hasn't rebooted his Solaris machine since 1992.
  
 (I remember the date because it was around the time I'd started a job). Honestly, Solaris ruled the Internet for a long while. Still does in places. Linux has taken over; Open Solaris was too little, too late. I really felt sorry for them. The only reason it still exists is because Oracle needs it. When Oracle finally gives in to Linux, it will be gone.
  
 These days, the most elegant solution (regardless of OS) is to virtualize. When things go wrong, you delete the faulty copy and download a fresh VM.
  
 The interested student can visit VirtualBox.


----------



## UmustBKidn

> Originally Posted by *Mshenay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bro, when you do get one, I REALLY want to hear about how it stacks up with a Bravo or Indeed amp. PM me if you don't want to post it.
  
 Please?


----------



## UmustBKidn

Tdockweiler and Purrin:
  
 While this might sound controversial, I really enjoy and appreciate both of your comments, except for the arguing parts.
  
 -U.


----------



## doublea71

Has anybody tried the Vali using the DAC of an E17? I have Mad Dog 3.2s and I'm under the impression that this amp would be fine; I'm just not sure if using the DAC of an E17 would be a waste of time.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> Bro, when you do get one, I REALLY want to hear about how it stacks up with a Bravo or Indeed amp. PM me if you don't want to post it.
> 
> Please? :rolleyes:




actually im buying one today! Ill post my impresdions. I have a found recollection of how both my old ibndeed n millet hybrids sound... ill post a nice picture glorified revieq in a little over a week! Best of all im gettin n office job so i ofically need a second dedktop amp :3


----------



## UmustBKidn

soundsgoodtome said:


> What exactly causes microphonics on a tube?


 
  
 The simple answer: vibration of the inner structures, that affects amplification.
  
 Solid state devices are isolated in plastic. You don't get microphonics because the parts in the signal path are isolated from vibration. Well ok, I've never taken my Magni and whacked it on a shelf, to see if I can hear something lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I'm not going to try.
  
 Tube devices contain mechanical surfaces. These surfaces are shooting electrons across an air gap, supported with insulators. Little tiny vibrations of these surfaces can cause a slight modification of the signal being amplified. It would take a lecture on tubes to really explain it thoroughly. But its kind of like feedback (eg. placing a microphone too close to a speaker that is amplifying the microphone). Vibration is what causes the problem. Reducing vibration is the solution.
  
 For the dubious, I spent nearly 15 yrs of my life making tubes (not audio tubes). So I do know something about them.


----------



## UmustBKidn

solarium said:


> I'm on the verge of ordering the Vali to go along with my X-Fi Titanium HD sound card as DAC, using a HD598 (with plan to upgrade to HD600/650 in the future). I already ordered the Magni and have gotten the box from amazon (unopened so I can return the package without penalties). Do you guys think it's worth it for me to go ahead and return the Magni and get the Vali instead?
> 
> Is the SQ "upgrade" from Magni significant? I do want a "warmer" sound to complement the HD598's more colder and analytical sound. I also hear that the Vali has more of a bass boost which IMO the HD598 much needs. How do you guys with the HD598 like the transition from Magni to Vali?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Personally? I love my Magni. It is a rock solid amp. It drives darn near anything. It has zero microphonics. Yes, it's true, I have a limited selection of amps, so I'm a little biased. But I would not trade my Magni for a Vali.
  
 Would I also get a Vali? I'm personally waiting until Mshenay gets one, and can tell me if it's better than a Bravo, lol. Then I might get one.


----------



## UmustBKidn

k.t. said:


> So here's my one big gripe with the Vali. With the Magni, too, for that matter.
> 
> That white power indicator light on front is way too dang bright! What I mean to say is that, it is WAAAAAY too dang bright!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Too much work.
 I put a couple of Post-it notes over the top of mine. And my Modi too for that matter. Works like a charm.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> actually im buying one today! Ill post my impresdions. I have a found recollection of how both my old ibndeed n millet hybrids sound... ill post a nice picture glorified revieq in a little over a week! Best of all im gettin n office job so i ofically need a second dedktop amp :3


 
  
 /jealous
  
 Having children really inhibits my ability to spend as much money as I want to, on audio gear. My kids keep wanting to eat. Or wear clothes. Sheesh.
  
 Office jobs are awesome. I highly recommend them. This is why I own 2 Bravo's lol.
  
 And yes, even though I know it will never happen, I do still wish Schiit made a DAC for ipods.


----------



## NinjaHamster

"Having children really inhibits my ability to spend as much money as I want to, on audio gear."  +  "Office jobs are awesome"  =  "I put a couple of Post-it notes over the top of mine".


----------



## MattTCG

shockah said:


> Does anyone know how the Vali sounds when paired with a HD 600? It seems as though the Vali does not have much synergy with the HD 650...


 
  
 I would call this completely untrue. I find it's a very good match.


----------



## Netman

I'm making up a Christmas wish list and some Schiit is on it!  (Not a lot of Schiit, my budget is limited to < $300.)  The Modi is firmly on the list, but which amp is best for my needs, the Magni or Vali?  My cans: UE TF-10s and Grado SR-80s.  The TF10s are mostly used for travel but I will definitely want to use both with whichever amp gets chosen.
  
 I'm a big fan of the tube sound (or the tube sound I remember from the old-school tubes amps of my youth) and the reports about the Vali's detail intrigue me.  However, Schiit says the Vali isn't particularly well suited for IEMs and low-impedance cans like the SR-80s so also noted as a not-particularly good match for the Vali.  
  
 I've searched around and can't find any feedback on the Vali-TF10 or Vali-SR80 combos -- anyone have any thoughts/experience with these?  Or should I just get the Magni and be happy?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## jbarrentine

k.t. said:


> That white power indicator light on front is way too dang bright! What I mean to say is that, it is WAAAAAY too dang bright!
> 
> If it were up to me, I'd say the little orange biasing LEDs inside the amp are enough to let me know that the amp is on.


 
  
 This is electronics in general now. Annoying LEDs on everything. I have a Samsung tv that has a red LED lit up when the tv is OFF. Please tell me who designed that so I can strangle them in their sleep.


----------



## FLguy

julzd said:


>


 
  
  


k.t. said:


> So here's my one big gripe with the Vali. With the Magni, too, for that matter.
> 
> That white power indicator light on front is way too dang bright! What I mean to say is that, it is WAAAAAY too dang bright!


 
   
 +1. Don't understand why mfgs love to put  extremely bright LEDs on desktop gear, or for home theater or audio gear. A major annoyance in a dark or semi dark room, imho. Probably looks good in a well lit show room I guess.
  
 Quote:


thegame said:


> Here is an idea, and something I use to cover bright LED's. Use Color Gels that they use for stage lighting etc...
> 
> Trust me before I added that color gel film that LED light on the Antec Veris was blinding! The Gel not only changed the color, but also dimmed it while still making it very easy to read. It's a very inexpensive option to try. You can find them at multiple stores, just do a search for Color Gels. Here is one link for you http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/american-dj-cgs-8a-8x8-gel-sheet-packet-a


 
  
 Excellent idea. Going to go order some of those this weekend. Got some other gear that w/ LEDs that need to be toned (way) down. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## thegunner100

If it doesn't break warranty, I'd like to put some black marker over my LED. I think I'll PM Schiit about it...


----------



## SMG52

With regard to those annoying led lights, "I feel your pain". This is what I use to cover all of those obnoxious lights on my equipment. I use just a tad, no more than 1/4 a finger nails worth. You can also find it in a gray color. Should be really easy to find. You can use just enough so that you can still see that the light is on. Totally removeable....would not void any warranty!
  
http://www.amazon.com/Elmers-Poster-Reusable-Adhesive-E1531/dp/B000BKQDB4


----------



## FraGGleR

umustbkidn said:


> Personally? I love my Magni. It is a rock solid amp. It drives darn near anything. It has zero microphonics. Yes, it's true, I have a limited selection of amps, so I'm a little biased. But I would not trade my Magni for a Vali.
> 
> Would I also get a Vali? I'm personally waiting until Mshenay gets one, and can tell me if it's better than a Bravo, lol. Then I might get one.


 
 It's way better than than the modded Bravo I had.  Much better ability to resolve detail and handle dynamics.  A lot more refinement.  I think I saw that some prefer it to one of the Project amps which is basically an uber version of the Bravo.


----------



## SMG52

Cheaper still. Same stuff. Will last a lifetime of covering led lights.
  
http://www.amazon.com/Duck-Removable-Mounting-Poster-1436912/dp/B000BQMFEC/ref=pd_sim_op_5


----------



## brhfl

jbarrentine said:


> This is electronics in general now. Annoying LEDs on everything. I have a Samsung tv that has a red LED lit up when the tv is OFF. Please tell me who designed that so I can strangle them in their sleep.


 
 My Vizio TV has a light that is set, by default, to flash whenever change in power state occurs - it's never persistently on by default. You can change that so that it's (dimly) on when the power is on, but the default is 'blink to say we're turning on or off.' Doesn't get much better than that!
  
 For a while, when the blindingly bright blue LEDs were new (and pricy), I think there was this push to use them and stand out, look modern (we're not using those old dim red LEDs like [competitor]!), look high-end... I had hopes that the trend would die down, but alas... I miss those warm, subtle, red LEDs! That said, I've seen far worse offenders than the Schiit gear.


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> /jealous
> 
> Having children really inhibits my ability to spend as much money as I want to, on audio gear. My kids keep wanting to eat. Or wear clothes. Sheesh.
> 
> ...


 
 Well... I ust TOTALED my car, and the insurance check was more than what I paid for the car SO... thank you rainy day and crappy brakes? Either way, It's paid for as of today. HOPING to get it by like... I dunno next week? Maybe around the same time my D2k finally get's here :/


----------



## mhamel

Check this out for dimming/covering LEDs, too.   The pre-cut shapes make it pretty convenient.  http://www.lightdims.com/


----------



## Stapsy

netman said:


> I'm making up a Christmas wish list and some Schiit is on it!  (Not a lot of Schiit, my budget is limited to < $300.)  The Modi is firmly on the list, but which amp is best for my needs, the Magni or Vali?  My cans: UE TF-10s and Grado SR-80s.  The TF10s are mostly used for travel but I will definitely want to use both with whichever amp gets chosen.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the tube sound (or the tube sound I remember from the old-school tubes amps of my youth) and the reports about the Vali's detail intrigue me.  However, Schiit says the Vali isn't particularly well suited for IEMs and low-impedance cans like the SR-80s so also noted as a not-particularly good match for the Vali.
> 
> I've searched around and can't find any feedback on the Vali-TF10 or Vali-SR80 combos -- anyone have any thoughts/experience with these?  Or should I just get the Magni and be happy?  Thanks in advance!


 
  
 I will try the Vali with my Grado RS-1 and shure IEMs (the old ones I don't remember what they are called) when I get home tonight.  I don't particularly like either of them but it should give you an idea of whether your headphones will work with the Vali.


----------



## FLguy

mhamel said:


> Check this out for dimming/covering LEDs, too.   The pre-cut shapes make it pretty convenient.  http://www.lightdims.com/


 
  
 Very cool. Thanks everybody for all the good ideas - good looking, non-permanent / warranty voiding - and cheap! What's not to like??  Problem solved...


----------



## ryant

I know this is a long shot but I would love to know how the vali stacks up against the Asgard 2 or matrix m-stage. Those are the amps on my short list to go with my he-300's and hopefully t50rp's (which I want to mod) depending on how much I can scrounge up for Christmas.


----------



## K.T.

I got my Magni shortly before my Vali. So they each only have a handful of hours on them.
  
 I'll, therefore, give a short preliminary impression of the two compared to each other (realizing that the sound may change with more hours).
  
 Right off the bat, the Vali is more involving. No question. This is with HD598, DT770, PSB M4U1, and JVC HA-S400, and fed from the line out of a FiiO X3.
  
 It's not only the wetness. There's also better articulation between notes and beats, better expressiveness. Also, the bass of the Vali has more balls and impact. The Magni, by comparison, sound kind of "samey" and bland. Kind of homogenous. Textures were not very differentiated and instruments and voices tended to sound too texturally similar. It didn't have that sense that the music is breathing.
  
 In my setup, there was no obvious flaw with the Vali's sound that came to mind when listening.
  
 With the Magni, the sound was warm. More clouded than the Vali. Again, kind of homogenous.
  
 I wouldn't say my Magni was much brighter, but there was something in the sound that caused me to feel uncomfortable. Like there was some high frequency glare that kept my body from fully relaxing while listening to music. This was immediately apparent after changing back to the Vali.
  
 With the Magni, I found myself thinking a lot about the sound of the music; what the amp and system were doing right or wrong. With the Vali, I simply enjoyed the music. Because of the glare from the Magni, or whatever it was, my ears felt fatigued, and my body felt uncomfortable, after a short time.
  
 So Magni put me in a more analytical mode, thinking about the particulars of the sound reproduction; Vali just got me involved in the emotional experience of the music.
  
 It's funny, but for about 30 seconds after starting up the Magni, I thought that the two had a fairly similar flavor, albiet the Magni sounding noticeably cloudier. But the differences were apparent very soon afterward.
  
 So if I had to do it over again, I would definitely go with the Vali for the phones, system, and ears I have.
  
 I had purchased and received the Magni shortly before I even knew of the Vali's existence. I was tempted to return the Magni, but with the 15% restocking fee and cost of shipping too and fro lost, I figured it would be a better value to keep it around to use here and there.
  
 The Magni is not a bad amp. Pretty decent and worth the $99 price. But the Vali is an exceptional amp, especially considering its price point. If your phones are known to pair well with the Vali, I'd say don't even consider the Magni and go with the Vali.
  
 My hope is that the glare from the Magni will disappear with more hours. I'll report back when both have had time to settle and stabilize.


----------



## saer

ryant said:


> I know this is a long shot but I would love to know how the vali stacks up against the Asgard 2 or matrix m-stage. Those are the amps on my short list to go with my he-300's and hopefully t50rp's (which I want to mod) depending on how much I can scrounge up for Christmas.


 
  
 Same question but with the HE-500s.
  
 Anyone have experience pairing the Vali with HE-500s & Asgard 2?


----------



## jexby

saer said:


> Same question but with the HE-500s.
> 
> Anyone have experience pairing the Vali with HE-500s & Asgard 2?


 
  
 yes, see my previous posts where I compared the Vali to Lyr with HE-500.
  
 I had an Asgard2 many months ago with the HE-500, but moved up to the Lyr to get the tube customization sound and power into the HE-500.  can't say I ever compared them side by side for long, but know that I was much happier with the smooth sounds, clarity, separation and soundstage of the Lyr over the A2.


----------



## Solarium

Put in my order. Got the magni yesterday from amazon prime yesterday. Will compare the 2 when I get the Vali and hopefully Amazon will let me return the order without restocking fee.


----------



## AxelCloris

My Vali has been burned in for about 52 hours now, so I'm going to give a quick little comparison with my Aune T1. I did a small write up on a different thread with my initial impressions of the two. Here's that excerpt.
  
*Hour 1*
  
 "Man, I have to say I'm a bit surprised. The Vali still needs more burn in time (Schiit recommends 50-100 hours) but so far I'm honestly preferring my Aune T1 with both the HD650s and my Mad Dogs. Maybe it's the power difference, maybe it's the burn-in time. I'll know as it gets farther along. The Aune currently separates better and gives better positioning right now. But again, these are just early impressions. Running off my MBP, both using the tube Aune DAC. Only difference is the SS in the Aune and the tubes in the Vali. The Aune feels more alive with any genre currently, from jazz to EDM to rock to musical theater. The Vali adds a little sparkle, but it's not balanced across the entire upper range. It just a couple frequency spikes for the time being. And the T1 does better pulling vocals, both male and female, from the rest.
  
 For S&Gs I have a somewhat sensitive IEM in currently. Yeah, no. Noise floor is very obvious during quiet music or when watching a video. But then again I expected that from the start. Aune sounds better and works better with more sensitive headphones."
  
 That was with only about an hour of burn in, just giving the amp time to warm up and loosen slightly.
  
*Hour 51*
  
 Now that I'm over the 50 hour point, my opinions have shifted slightly. Currently listening to the two again side by side, and I feel that some changing has gone on. Bear in mind I haven't listened to the Vali from hour 1 to 51. First thing I notice immediately is soundstage. The soundstage is better on the Vali than on the Aune currently. The Aune feels more in-head than the Vali does. On the Vali, there are clear queues from the right and left that are either difficult or near-impossible to distinguish on the Aune.
  
 Daft Punk - Within. The chimes have better presence and give off an incredibly relaxing sound on the Vali. On the T1, they still sound nice but they don't sound as natural as the sound. I've seen the word "wet" thrown around to talk about a nice decay to the sound and if I'm understanding the term correctly then that's a great way to explain the chimes. They reverberate enough to sound realistic and retain their sparkle without sounding artificial or processed. The piano intro sounds more heartfelt on the Vali. I don't know if I can really put it into words, but I just feel as though more emotion is coming through the keys than they do on the T1. Verdict: The Vali is an improvement over the T1 but not necessarily one I'd miss after a short time.
  
 Nightwish - Wish I Had An Angel. Gonna be honest, it's hard to stay on the Aune side of things with this song. I keep flipping back to the Vali during play. All vocals are much more forward than with the T1. Again the soundstage makes an appearance, feeling wider out of the Vali than the T1. And, always important in symphonic black metal, the drums and bass line are fun and engaging. The Vali really sets my toe tapping. The T1 does that as well, but not quite to the same degree that the Vali does. The Vali just grabbed me and pulled me into the song; sitting me front and center in front of the band.
  
 Wicked Cast - One Short Day. One of my favorites from the show. And with these 2 amps, I have one thing to say. Vali. Seriously. I didn't expect it to be this different between the two considering that the songs previously we're pretty close overall. In a nutshell, I don't like the T1 for this song anymore. The Vali does an incredible job of bringing forward every detail in the song and portraying it as though I'm in the theater with Kristin and Idina. The T1 sounds like I'm listening to a reproduction. I honestly was not expecting this big of a change. Just to make sure it wasn't a recording fault, I played For Good; the Vali gave me the same results. If anyone else out there with the Vali wants to confirm if I'm crazy or not, pull up Wicked on MOG and give it a good listen. On the T1 For Good sounds as though the two lovely ladies are standing right next to each other singing into the same mic. On the Vali it's as though they're standing a couple feet apart and singing to each other, as it should. This song is a conversation between friends and should sound like one.
  
 With the exception of the Wicked music, I feel that the Vali has been an improvement over the T1's SS amp. However, for those songs I feel that I'd be content with the T1 if I were to sell the Vali. Now once I factor in Wicked, that's a lot herder to rationalize. It performed well above expectations with the theater. I'm going to let the burn-in continue a bit longer but I like how it's evolved since my initial listen. All testing at this hour was done on the HD650. Questions? Comments? Snide remarks? Fleeting romantic glances?


----------



## saer

jexby said:


> yes, see my previous posts where I compared the Vali to Lyr with HE-500.
> 
> I had an Asgard2 many months ago with the HE-500, but moved up to the Lyr to get the tube customization sound and power into the HE-500.  can't say I ever compared them side by side for long, but know that I was much happier with the smooth sounds, clarity, separation and soundstage of the Lyr over the A2.


 
  
 I appreciate the feedback, thank you.
  
 If you don't mind, can you speak on your experience was with the A2 and HE-500 ?


----------



## Sanlitun

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this vs the Lyr in terms of sound detail?
  
 I realize this is a very difficult question as you can change the tubes in the Lyr and the sound along with it. 
  
 But in a general sense, are they comparable amps?


----------



## TheGame

Just got my Vali. I am really surprised at how tiny it is! Yes I have seen the pics in this thread of the unit and on Schiit's website, but you never really get a good sense of how small it actually is until you hold it in you hands!
  
 Anyway, going to take some advice from other members in this thread and let it warm up for 15-20 minutes then try to listen to it for 4-6 hours. I'll report back later this evening or in the wee early morning hours to give my first impressions on how the Vali sounds on a "Budget" setup. By "Budget setup I mean nothing more than my Titanium HD soundcard connected to the Vali with good RCA cables, then Vali straight to the cans. I will spend some time (about 2 hours each) on 3 different cans and give my initial impressions. The cans I'll use to test the Vali with are the HD650's, the DT 990 Pros (250 Ohm) and the ATH-M50.
  
 Hopefully these initial impressions will help others like me with budget setups get a better idea of how the Vali will do with less expensive equipment.
  
 I will report back later with initial impressions.


----------



## BournePerfect

thegunner100 said:


> If it doesn't break warranty, I'd like to put some black marker over my LED. I think I'll PM Schiit about it...


 
  
 Use onof the provided black feet to cover the LED-then triangulate the remaining 3 under the Vali. Or...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## leesure

bourneperfect said:


> Use onof the provided black feet to cover the LED-then triangulate the remaining 3 under the Vali. Or...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Or some electrical tape?


----------



## BournePerfect

UMustBKidN:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Multiquote wants to be friends. 




  
 -Daniel


----------



## K.T.

I usually use black gaffer's tape to cover bright status lights. Works great and that low-tack adhesive is nice if you need to take it off later. Minimizes the glue mess.
  
 I'll try it. My concern was the the white LED also illuminates the amp from the inside as well, and that can be seen coming out of the ventilation holes and the volume control port. A lot of light leaking out.
  
 I'll give a try and report back.


----------



## worldtipper

I'm curious to see what DAC's people find to work very well with the Vali. I love the modi with it but would like something with more flexibility on ins/ outs. The fact that the Vali has me thinking about a DAC upgrade is its biggest fault. Ahh, I see what they did...lure you in with the low price and then force you to buy a bifrost! Schiity.


----------



## darinf

worldtipper said:


> I'm curious to see what DAC's people find to work very well with the Vali. I love the modi with it but would like something with more flexibility on ins/ outs. The fact that the Vali has me thinking about a DAC upgrade is its biggest fault. Ahh, I see what they did...lure you in with the low price and then force you to buy a bifrost! Schiity.


 
 My AK120 sounds pretty good with the Vali. yes, no true line out, but it still sounds better than straight out of the AK120 with HD800's.


----------



## TheGame

worldtipper said:


> I'm curious to see what DAC's people find to work very well with the Vali. I love the modi with it but would like something with more flexibility on ins/ outs. The fact that the Vali has me thinking about a DAC upgrade is its biggest fault. Ahh, I see what they did...lure you in with the low price and then force you to buy a bifrost! Schiity.


 

 In my case it has been purrin making me obsess over the bifrost uber, not Schiit...purrin you should demand compensation!


----------



## Transformatron

leesure said:


> Or some electrical tape?



I use a hole punch on electrical tape to make little dots


----------



## hmorneau

I just got my Vali,
  
 First impression after 30 minutes listening with the T1 with a couple of track that I listen often, it's good, very good for the price, but there is lot of details missing. Maybe my DAC is not revealing enough. But on the positive side, it's more forgiving on badly recorded track. Bass are much slower too and there is less "impact". 
  
 I don't have much ringing, it do it for like 20 seconds when you turn it on, then it's quiet. If you touch the volume hard enough, it will ring for 5 - 10 seconds. There is little to no white noise (background noise). 
  
 Also I feel that the amp "clip" sometime when there is big impact sound.Maybe it's the "tube sound", I'm not sure since it's my first tube amp and I only have the auditor to compare with.
  
 Anyway, I will give it more burn time.


----------



## jexby

saer said:


> I appreciate the feedback, thank you.
> 
> If you don't mind, can you speak on your experience was with the A2 and HE-500 ?


 
  
 sorry, it's been so long ago (in music hours) that anything I write would be misleading.


----------



## Makiah S

ryant said:


> I know this is a long shot but I would love to know how the vali stacks up against the Asgard 2 or matrix m-stage. Those are the amps on my short list to go with my he-300's and hopefully t50rp's (which I want to mod) depending on how much I can scrounge up for Christmas.


 
 I can help you with the M Stage! I owned an M Stage and IMO, the oDac m Stage combo I had sounds VERY much like my current HM801 PB1 combo, so when my vali Arrives I'll let you know how the two compare 
  
 My w1000x [modded] is a very sterile and intimate phone. She does a nice job of reflecting her amp and source very nicely, I'm hoping the Vali will give me the warmth I had with the M Stage, but with the NFB 10ES2 Dac, I'll get and retain more details than my old M Stage oDac combo
  
 Pretty confident I'll be happy. I've also got a 75ohm Resistance Extentsion cord in bound for me, to add some extra noise resitance to the Vali with my sensitive Audio TEchnica


----------



## thegunner100

Yep, I currently have electric tape over my power LED. @AxelCloris, Based on my memory of the aune t1's amp section, I found that the UHA-6s mkii's was better with the hd600. And in that case, I would think that the Vali is better than the aune t1's amp section as well. Maybe I'll get to go back to my friend's place later this month to do some real comparisons via hd800 + dx50. 
  
 I actually feel kind of bad for suggesting my friend buy the Aune T1 some time back... It kinda sucks >.> (imo)
  
 I've taken the Vali home with me this weekend, so I'll have a better idea of how the vali fairs with the dx50. Sounds decent so far; definitely more satisfying than the uha-6s.


----------



## MattTCG

I've tried to sell my Vali but no luck. It's a very decent amp but it just doesn't improve on the lyr or A2 IMO. I guess that I'll give it some additional burn in and see what it sounds like.


----------



## Makiah S

matttcg said:


> I've tried to sell my Vali but no luck. It's a very decent amp but it just doesn't improve on the lyr or A2 IMO. I guess that I'll give it some additional burn in and see what it sounds like.


 
 I as going to sell mine but you know what... EFF IT. I actually need another desktop amp for my Office, got a new/old job and well I need an OFfice Rig now <3 thinking the vali will fit very nicely into that rig! 
 Which means I'm KEEPING it hurray. Let's hope it gels nice with my sensitive Wood Backs [I got a 75ohm Resistance INterconnector to help curb some of that possible noise]
  
 That said she shiped out today <3 Good work Schiitt! Looking forward to reviewing the SCHIIT out this


----------



## MickeyVee

Got home after work today at about 4pm today and no Vali.  What! I ordered on day 1.  Then about 1/2 an hour later, a knock on the door and it was Canada Post with the Vali!  So it's been running for a couple of hours using the WA7 DAC as the source and I have to say it's pretty impressive with the HD800. Went through some Patricia Barber, Deadmou5, Lindsey Stirling, Sinatra and Dire Straits. So far, so good.
 It doesn't have the sheer guts, power and impact of the Lyr or WA7 but I'm finding it very musical and a lot of fun.
 Other than agreeing that it may be a good entry level match for the HD800, I'll hold off on any further impressions until I get about 100 hours on it.


----------



## olor1n

matttcg said:


> I've tried to sell my Vali but no luck. It's a very decent amp but it just doesn't improve on the lyr or A2 IMO. I guess that I'll give it some additional burn in and see what it sounds like.


 
  
 What exactly do you find lacking in the Vali compared to the Lyr?
  
 I'm going off memory here as my Lyr is long gone, but I did live with that component for some time and am very familiar with its qualities. The Lyr never wowed me with the HD800 like the Vali has. With the Lyr (irrespective of tubes*) it was apparent that the HD800's ability to resolve the dac was being stifled. The Vali on the other hand presents pristine clarity. Its only deficiency (evident in my brief time with it) is the slightly flabby bass that doesn't extend quite as low as the Mjolnir.
  
 *Lorenz Stuttgarts, Amperex Bugle Boys (60's O-getters), Orange Globes (70's Herleen A-frames), Cryo Russian tubes that the rolling thread initially raved about and some RCA black plates.
  
 edit: I'll spend more time with the HD650 today. I was impressed on my initial listen but my random playlist did yield a glimpse of what some have complained about. I pegged that to the recording though, as the very next track was sublime.


----------



## purrin

^ It comes down to other sides of the chain: DAC and headphones, and how well the resolve. You've always had good DACs from what I recall. And the HD800 is a resolution monster.


----------



## olor1n

mickeyvee said:


> Got home after work today at about 4pm today and no Vali.  What! I ordered on day 1.  Then about 1/2 an hour later, a knock on the door and it was Canada Post with the Vali!  So it's been running for a couple of hours using the WA7 DAC as the source and I have to say it's pretty impressive with the HD800. Went through some Patricia Barber, Deadmou5, Lindsey Stirling, Sinatra and Dire Straits. So far, so good.
> It doesn't have the sheer guts, power and impact of the Lyr or WA7 but I'm finding it very musical and a lot of fun.
> Other than agreeing that it may be a good entry level match for the HD800, I'll hold off on any further impressions until I get about 100 hours on it.


 
  
 Yeah it is somewhat "lacking" in the slam department. However, the layering of textures in busy passages, the smoothness coupled with the clarity and the illumination of fine details (star of the show) makes for a compelling listen.


----------



## MickeyVee

It's really, really nice for low/mid level listening but I can easily drive it to distortion.  There are some songs where I just want to crank it and the Vali doesn't respond in kind where the WA7 just laughs and delivers. I love the phrase 'compelling listen' and the Vali certainly is. My terminology is fun and musical.  The amp just gets out of its way. (I absolutely hated the Magni.. what I'm getting from the Vali is what I was expecting from the Magni when I had it) Nice job Jason & Schiit crew!!!
  
 Purrin.. thinking of adding an external DAC again.. considering the Bifrost Uber (again), the Arcam irDAC or the  Rega DAC (though I've been drooling over the McIntosh D100.. way out of my snack bracket).  I assume that any of these would be suitable. I like the idea of the Arcam and Rega for their warmth.  Thoughts?
  
 Quote:


olor1n said:


> Yeah it is somewhat "lacking" in the slam department. However, the layering of textures in busy passages, the smoothness coupled with the clarity and the illumination of fine details (star of the show) makes for a compelling listen.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Does anyone know if the warranty from Schiit is transferable from owner to owner?


----------



## Radioking59

soundsgoodtome said:


> Does anyone know if the warranty from Schiit is transferable from owner to owner?


 

  Their answer is no, but I'm guessing they will work with you as long as it hasn't been modded in anyway.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Well...definitely impressed with the 1min e-mail reply. Do these guys have a life? Lol

 A definitive "Nope" from Nick T.


----------



## purrin

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 No idea on the Arcam and Rega DACs so I can't offer an insights. What volume levels are you driving the HD800 at to push it into audible distortion? It's either be careful of your hearing or there's something definitely wrong. Didn't you have the HD700?


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup.. had the HD700 and HE500 at the same time with the Lyr/Bifrost Uber.. sold them both and went to the HD800 after I heard it at a local meet.  Maybe I should have just stopped there. Went to the WA7 with the WA2/22 on the radar.  No looking back. There are some songs like Maroon 5's One More Night (Club Mix) where I really want to crank it just for the one song.  Vali doesn't cut it for that. Most of my listening are at low/moderate levels (9 o'clock) and the Vali is perfect for that. It's just those special songs, say 1 on 20 where I really want to crank it, get up and dance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Downloaded the Arcam irDAC manual, seems great especially for a Mac based system feature wise.  Going to audition both this weekend. Taking my MacBook Air and Vali. Don't want to get too much into the new toy excitement, but the Vali seems like a keeper! Need to spend a couple of months with it before I commit.
 I've settled on my main AV system and have no urge to upgrade.  It hasn't changes in 2 years.  Getting close with my HeadFi system.
  
 Quote:


purrin said:


> No idea on the Arcam and Rega DACs so I can't offer an insights. What volume levels are you driving the HD800 at to push it into audible distortion? It's either be careful of your hearing or there's something definitely wrong. Didn't you have the HD700?


----------



## doublea71

doublea71 said:


> Has anybody tried the Vali using the DAC of an E17? I have Mad Dog 3.2s and I'm under the impression that this amp would be fine; I'm just not sure if using the DAC of an E17 would be a waste of time.


 

 Anybody care to comment? Based on Purrin's comments, the E17 DAC might be underwhelming, but I'm not sure...


----------



## mangler

doublea71 said:


> Anybody care to comment? Based on Purrin's comments, the E17 DAC might be underwhelming, but I'm not sure...




I briefly tried my e17 with the Vali and LCD2 the other night, and it sounded pretty much like when you plug your headphones straight into the e17, but with more headroom and a larger soundstage. I did have to use the e17 headphone out to do this, so it's probably not that surprising. So, I guess I would say that Vali out of the e17 was just ok. However, it's a whole other story with my W4S DAC2...that's where the Vali really shines, which is consistent with what others are saying about how the Vali scales well with better DACs.


----------



## thegunner100

The E17's dac sucks, it will definitely not be enough for the Vali. It was one of the first dacs i've ever purchased, and I don't regret selling it at all. Definitely go for a better dac if you can.


----------



## doublea71

thegunner100 said:


> The E17's dac sucks, it will definitely not be enough for the Vali. It was one of the first dacs i've ever purchased, and I don't regret selling it at all. Definitely go for a better dac if you can.


 

 So what's a bargain-basement DAC that will be an improvement on the E17? The Modi seems to be a possibility, but again, I'm an amp/dac noob of the highest order.


----------



## thegunner100

doublea71 said:


> So what's a bargain-basement DAC that will be an improvement on the E17? The Modi seems to be a possibility, but again, I'm an amp/dac noob of the highest order.


 

 A modi is a good start if you're on a budget, perhaps the bare minimum. If you have a bit more money to spare, you can move up to one of the entry audio-gd units like the nfb-11.32 or nfb-15.32. At that point, the bifrost will be an option too (though i've never personally used a bifrost before). If you buy used, you can save a good deal of money as well.


----------



## Tequilasunriser

Haven't you heard?
  
 Bargain DACs aren't good enough for Vali.
  
 Scholars maintain that DACS are only good as their price climbs higher, and data showed that a Bifrost sold on sale for $100 sounds approximately 5 times worse than one sold at normal prices.
  
 Don't ask me why. It's science.
  
 In other news, $81,000 injected directly into the vein will cure AIDS.


----------



## MickeyVee

Without getting too crazy, the AudioQuest DragonFly $200 or Meridian Explorer $300. If you don't need USB, the Schiit Bifrost Uber $420 otherwise your into a $500+ DAC. Try the used forums for one of these.  The PSAudio DLIII is a little older but is an awesome DAC and should go for a song used.  I have this in my main AV system and absolutely love it. If you're stuck on the $100 range, the Modi can do.
  
 Quote:


doublea71 said:


> So what's a bargain-basement DAC that will be an improvement on the E17? The Modi seems to be a possibility, but again, I'm an amp/dac noob of the highest order.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Don't forget the companies East. Audio-GD and Yulong to name 2.


----------



## JoeKickass

doublea71 said:


> So what's a bargain-basement DAC that will be an improvement on the E17? The Modi seems to be a possibility, but again, I'm an amp/dac noob of the highest order.


 
 I've been pretty happy with this dac:
http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=83


----------



## tdockweiler

doublea71 said:


> So what's a bargain-basement DAC that will be an improvement on the E17? The Modi seems to be a possibility, but again, I'm an amp/dac noob of the highest order.


 
  
 The Modi is definitely an improvement over the E17. Same with the ODAC and I think they're both at the same level. Some think the ODAC is better but I couldn't hear much of difference. This was after days of listening to both. The only difference I heard was better center image depth on the Modi. Huh?! Can't explain that one at all! Maybe that mean't it had a tad less treble.
  
 The E17 DAC has just a tiny touch of warmth and not as bad as everyone says considering it's price and features (COAX and Optical Input!). I often used my E17 for the bedroom attached to the Optical out from the Xbox 360 and my Oppo DVD player. It got the job done and drives my HD-650 and Q701 DECENTLY. The Modi is much clearer and more spacious sounding. Sounds more neutral/natural.  The E17's soundstage is much more closed in, but not too bad. There is some very very slight emphasis in the low mids of the E17 it seems. It's a pretty fun DAC overall. Think it uses the WM8740 DAC. I have a Denon 1920 with two of them inside it I got at a thrift store for $6 and love it!
  
 I think the E10 is way worse. I wasn't a fan of that at all and it uses the same chipset I believe. I almost never use the E17 and I just got a replacement in yesterday since it died! As an amp even my outdated Total Airhead is better IMO. I don't have any IEMs though.
  
 For say an HD-650/Q701 the E17 is not something I would ever suggest as a main desktop DAC. Not that it's bad. I can listen to it and enjoy it without any complaints.
  
 So far I went from HRT MSII > ODAC > Modi  and then Micro DAC. Each one has been an upgrade, except Modi was a side-grade. I only listen to music a couple hours a day and prefer budget gear under $400. Sorry!
  
 I've found that my Micro DAC is a little bit more revealing of poor recordings and low bitrates and even on the HD-650 it's stupid easy to pick apart all my tracks. This is a little harder on the Modi, but still possible but not as easy. The Modi is very SLIGHTLY forgiving to me. I first experienced that with the T90 I had borrowed. I got that impression with the ODAC too despite what everyone says. The Micro DAC costs me $250 on sale (was originally $350) and the Modi holds up very well.
  
 Even the HD-650 with the Modi was never really laid back. Some extra smoothness in the treble but that's about it. It's a good DAC if you don't want to hear every single subtle recording flaw! Modi is just so clear sounding to me and even on the HD-650. Modi and ODAC sounds great to me with the HD-650. The HRT MSII..not at all to me.
  
 If someone can't afford a $500 DAC there is really nothing wrong with the ODAC or Modi.
  
 Since I'm a HUGE fan of the Modi I could almost guarantee i'd love the Bifrost.
  
 Haha I was reading up on the Valhalla and I bet i'd like that more than the Vali with the HD-650. Skylab's review of it made it seems pretty neutral. It was one of the better reviews i've read.
  
 BTW when I'm reading all your impressions of the Vali a lot of them are similar to what I heard on the modded Q701 with it. It's a crystal clear sounding amp with that thing. With that combo I had ZERO complaints!
  
 I'm surprised there are very few impressions of it with the Q701. The (bass) modded Q701 is VERY close in sound to my HD-650. A little more treble. HD-650 still slightly fuller in the low mids. Bass is actually very similar!
  
 With my modded Q701 the hD-650 gets very little use. I normally would use the HD-650 for gaming/movie due to it having slightly more low-bass. The mod increases low bass on the Q701.


----------



## BournePerfect

tequilasunriser said:


> Haven't you heard?
> 
> Bargain DACs aren't good enough for Vali.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haven't you heard? Expectation bias is a two-way street. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Vali easily exposed the differences between the respectable SBT analog outs and my Eximus. Easily.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## hmorneau

olor1n said:


> Yeah it is somewhat "lacking" in the slam department. However, the layering of textures in busy passages, the smoothness coupled with the clarity and the illumination of fine details (star of the show) makes for a compelling listen.


 
 I agree with you, there is some track like "One More Night - Boyce Avenue" there is a lot of slam and speed with the auditor, with the vali there is no slam and it's responding very slow in comparison.
  
 I also agree that it's really easy to push the vali on distortion level. It's a fun small amps, but I don't think it's superior to any under 1600$ amps. 
  
 In a congested part of a track you start loosing some instrument as well. Like Tracy Chapman - Fast car (Boyce Avenue) you loose some part of the sound.
  
 I'm listening to "New slaves - Kanye West" and there is lot of distortion. Lowering the volume fix it, but that amps is not powerful enough to drive the T1 to their full potential. 
  
 I will let it "burn" a bit more. But so far it's a good secondary amps, but it won't replace my auditor. 
  
 Instrument separation is really poor too, everything sound like it's coming from the same place, on the auditor there is lot of room, lot of air. Everything stay really clear even when it's congested. 
  
 It's plugged on my W4S DAC2, so I don't think the problem is there. Maybe with a better dac... but with the same dac the audtior perform very well and I can hear all the details, so I know that those details are available at the source.
  
 Any suggestion?
  
 Maybe I prefer a more "analytical & clinical" sound that the auditor deliver.


----------



## BournePerfect

hmorneau said:


> I agree with you, there is some track like "One More Night - Boyce Avenue" there is a lot of slam and speed with the auditor, with the vali there is no slam and it's responding very slow in comparison.
> 
> I also agree that it's really easy to push the vali on distortion level. It's a fun small amps, but I don't think it's superior to any under 1600$ amps.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Auditor? Slam? Whaa? Using the same dac m HD800s slam a LOT more with the Vali than the Auditor. OTOH-the Auditor is known to pair better with the T1 than the Senns though.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## hmorneau

bourneperfect said:


> Auditor? Slam? Whaa? Using the same dac m HD800s slam a LOT more with the Vali than the Auditor. OTOH-the Auditor is known to pair better with the T1 than the Senns though.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Yeah, the auditor + T1 there is a lot of slam, and it's freaking fast. When I hear something that is slow and congested on the vali, I plug my T1 back in the auditor and everything is clear, fast and non-congested (in fact it make it sound like it's not a congested part of song, everything is detailed and the separation between instrument is really clear). The difference is so big. Day and night actually. 
  
 Also the volume knob on the auditor doesn't compare to the small one on the Vali.
  
 I think I will move the vali in my bedroom and use it with my cellphone and my DT880. 
  
 But in fact I think the Auditor is really impressive, I was a bit sceptical about the Vali, but for it's low price I don't regret it. 
  
 Maybe I'm just not a tube guy.


----------



## jbarrentine

transformatron said:


> I use a hole punch on electrical tape to make little dots


 
  
 Whatever we're paying you, it's not enough.


----------



## TheGame

Hello everyone. finally got to spend about 4 hours with the Vali today. My goal was to try the HD650's, DT 990 Pros and ATH-M50's with it, but I only ended up listening to 4 albums with the HD 650 and starting getting really sleepy so I'll have to put off my thoughts on the DT 990s pros and ATH-M50's for later.
  
 Anyway here are my initial thoughts of the Vali with the HD 650's. Keep in mind I am still a beginner, and I have a very simple "budget" setup" so forgive me if my review sounds simple or stupid.
  
 I'm simply using JRiver MC 19 as my source, with the Titanium HD used as my Soundcard/DAC, connected to the Vali with mid-grade RCA cables, straight to the HD 650's. I didn't change any settings in JRiver or made any changes other than simply unplugging my other amp (The FiiO E09K), and plugging in the Vali.
  
 Sound differences between the Vali and FiiO E09K were immediate, although not as much of a change as I had expected (after reading so many impressions of this amp and everything that has been said about it so far, I thought my sound would be changing drastically). However that isn't the case with my setup. The immediate differences I noticed between the FiiO E09K and the Vali is that the Vali did add a little warmth to the over-all sound signature of the HD 650's (seemed to be warmer in the lower mids), but the warmth was subtle, almost "soothing". It wasn't overwhelming nor muddy and didn't seem to drown out other frequencies (the treble and highs were still very nice and crisp).
  
 The other difference I noticed with the Vali compared to the FiiO E09K with the HD 650's is that the music that I listened to (only about 4 different albums today) seemed a little more articulate, and I DID hear little nuances that I did not hear before in the music that I listened to today. And no, I can assure you that it is not placebo effect, I am an active mixing and mastering engineer for my own music and for other bands (although I do not use headphones to monitor) so I am very adept to picking out subtle changes in frequencies and pressure waves. My point being is that over the years I find I can easily pick out instruments, and what adding or subtracting frequencies and envelopes. filters, etc. can do to affect their overall sound, and when mastering what they can do to the mix as a whole.
  
 The Vali for me felt like there was a slight decrease in sub-bass. Kick drums had less thump, however they sounded more tight and accurate, which to someone like me who likes a darker, more bass heavy sound, it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Kick drums sounded more natural and it was much easier to tell one drummer's kick drum, from another drummer's kick drum, almost as if I could picture in my head where they had the mic placement for the kick drum's recording - near (or even sometimes inside) the bass drum itself through a port hole, or very close or farther from the kick drum's head for recording. Bass guitar also had less of a muddy sound, it sounded cleaner and easier to pick out in the overall mix.
  
 I didn't find much change in vocals, guitars, keyboards, or wind instruments, although like I stated earlier, I only listened to 4 albums (about 4 hours). Also, I didn't notice any change in the overall sound stage as some Vali users have reported.
  
 In conclusion for my limited testing, in my case, the Vali is a huge step up in my "Budget" setup. Even though the FiiO E09k and Vali are roughly priced about the same, the Vali is a huge leap in improvement to my ears.
  
 So for me, and my personal _opinion_, the Titanium HD->Schiit Vali->HD650 is a great combo and pair extremely well together. Like I said, I do only have a budget setup and haven't heard more expensive setups so maybe the Vali's signature is less apparent than it would be with more expensive/sensitive equipment. But for me the bottom line is that my setup sounds much better than it did before with only a small investment in the Vali.
  
*Music listened to:*
  
*Tool* - _Undertow_ (entire album) 1993 @ an average bitrate of 944 kbps / Bit Depth - 16 / Sample Rate - 44.1 Hz / Format - FLAC
  
*Dream Theater* - _Dream Theater_ (entire album) 2013 @ an average Bitrate 2953 kbps / Bit Depth - 24 / Sample Rate - 96kHz / Format - FLAC
  
*Dream Theater* -  _Awake [SHM-CD, Japan]_ (entire album) 1994 @ a Constant Bitrate of 320 kbps / Bit Depth - 16 / Sample Rate - 44.1 Hz / Format - FLAC
  
*Megadeth* - _Peace Sells But Who's Buying? [SHM-CD, Japan]_ (Entire Album) 1986 (original) 2013 (SHM-CD, Japan Ver.) @ Constant Bitrate 1033 / Bit Depth - 16 / Sample Rate - 44.1 Hz / Format - FLAC
  
 Remember I am still learning this stuff so if you find my review useless, I apologize, just giving my opinion from a beginner's point-of-view with a beginner setup. I hope it at least benefits someone who reads it.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

for fear of making this more a DAC thread than it is already, perhaps there is a market for Schiit for a Modi2 (to run in parallel to Modi rather than replace), same case, same connection but at $199 and better quality? I would buy Jason.


----------



## K.T.

HE-400 and 500 in the house! And interestingly, I think they sound better on the Magni! 

That after I preferred, by far, the HD598, DT770, PSB M4U1 on the Vali. I mean, the Vali blew away the Magni on these phones.

I feel that with the HE-400 and 500, the Vali just doesn't have enough power to grip the ortho drivers and coax a coherent musical presentation from them. The fine qualities of the Vali are still apparent, but they are struggling to get out. 

The biggest problem is with the bass. There's not very much of it, and what's there can hardly be called propulsive or tuneful. There's simply no foundation for the music. The result is the sound is tilted towards the upper mids and treble. Too thin and bright with no body or drive. Bummer!

With the Magni, however, both phones sound fuller, more dynamic, tuneful, and engaging, if less articulate, than with the Vali. But without sufficient drive, the Vali is only about the articulation and not about the music. 

To my ears, the Vali is not a good match for the HE-400 and 500. The Magni does much better.

I was bummed that I had a potentially orphaned Magni after the Vali arrived. But the Magni will have a place driving my HE-400s and 500s. 

Oh wait.... I have an Asgard 2 coming. Will the Magni become an orphan, yet?


----------



## TheGame

> Oh wait.... I have an Asgard 2 coming. Will the Magni become an orphan, yet?


 
 Ah! So lucky! I think the Magni may lose to the Asgard 2


----------



## BournePerfect

hmorneau said:


> Yeah, the auditor + T1 there is a lot of slam, and it's freaking fast. When I hear something that is slow and congested on the vali, I plug my T1 back in the auditor and everything is clear, fast and non-congested (in fact it make it sound like it's not a congested part of song, everything is detailed and the separation between instrument is really clear). The difference is so big. Day and night actually.
> 
> Also the volume knob on the auditor doesn't compare to the small one on the Vali.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't doubt at all the the Vali is slow and conjested compared to he SPL-it's the bass slam specifically I was curious about. Also-don't judge whether you're a tube guy based on impressions of a $119 amp lol, regardless of how well it punches above it's weight. It's no ZDSE-nor does it claim to be.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## UmustBKidn

bourneperfect said:


> UMustBKidN:
> 
> Multiquote wants to be friends.
> 
> ...


 
  
 <watches comment go over his head>
  
 <continues reading>


----------



## UmustBKidn

ninjahamster said:


> "Having children really inhibits my ability to spend as much money as I want to, on audio gear."  +  "Office jobs are awesome"  =  "I put a couple of Post-it notes over the top of mine".


 
  
 When I was younger, it would have been Duct Tape


----------



## Makiah S

soundsgoodtome said:


> Well...definitely impressed with the 1min e-mail reply. Do these guys have a life? Lol
> 
> A definitive "Nope" from Nick T.


 
 kinda glad I bought my brand new q.q
  
 I do expect a small amount of "ewwww what's that noise.... oh somethings loose" from the vali in teh next what is it 5 years? Holy crap FIVE years... I hope I have the vali that long honestly! 
  


tequilasunriser said:


> Haven't you heard?
> 
> Bargain DACs aren't good enough for Vali.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh dang that's AESOME news.... about them aids cure a shame about the dac lol
  
 Still... hoping my NFB10ES2 dac is good enough :3, it should be it full balanced after all


----------



## olor1n

My previous comment about a "lack" of slam is in relation to the Mjolnir, which hits _hard_. I don't find the Vali dynamically compressed at all though. And I certainly don't perceive it losing detail in busy passages or miring the presentation with overdriven distortion. There's bound to be variance in findings based on many factors, but some of the impressions here are utterly baffling.


----------



## eccom

doublea71 said:


> So what's a bargain-basement DAC that will be an improvement on the E17? The Modi seems to be a possibility, but again, I'm an amp/dac noob of the highest order.


 

 The Audioquest dragonfly is ony 100 USD on amazon at the moment, a good alternative to the Modi or Odac if you want a compact dac that alos works an amp when out and about.


----------



## Makiah S

olor1n said:


> My previous comment about a "lack" of slam is in relation to the Mjolnir, which hits _hard_. I don't find the Vali dynamically compressed at all though. And I certainly don't perceive it losing detail in busy passages or miring the presentation with overdriven distortion. There's bound to be variance in findings based on many factors, but some of the impressions here are utterly baffling.


 
 That does make sense though, the Balanced out of my Nfb10ES2 has a VERY HARD hitting bass as well, and it's balanced. I've found with both my HE 400 and DT 880 the balanced output on my NFB 10ES2 is... as far as bass goes, Harder and more tactile. I'm assuming the Mojilnir may have the same benifits on it's balanced output as well.
  
 And what's great is the NFB's SE is slighty softer and has a touch more decay, so chances are the Vali bass wise won't differ to much from the SE I'm already using with my w1000x. Not to mention the W1000x doesn't do anything below 50 or so hrz very well. Meaning if the bass down there is flabby.... I won't b hearing to much of it lol
  
 Now that said... my D2k which is in bound is balanced so :O I hope it does nice with the vali up again'st the NFB 10ES2 >.>


----------



## Solarium

Will Vali's higher output impedance make a difference vs Magni in low impedance HP's (like HD 598's)?


----------



## peter123

The AQ Dragonfly is only $100 now so it's not good enough anymore


----------



## Makiah S

meh 6.5 ohms... maybe. My AUdio Technica W1000x is 42oms... so that's about 7x as much as the output of the Vali... should be 8 or the out put of the amp should be 1/8 of the headphones in put...
  
 Oh wait nvm I'm going to use a 75ohm INteconnect between the Headphone and the amp, that should solve any mis match issues
  
 for a low impedance headphone I'd get ur sef like a $20 impedance adapter. A few reputable sellers are on ebay or the DIY guys might be able to build you one as well.


----------



## SMG52

mshenay said:


> meh 6.5 ohms... maybe. My AUdio Technica W1000x is 42oms... so that's about 7x as much as the output of the Vali... should be 8 or the out put of the amp should be 1/8 of the headphones in put...
> 
> Oh wait nvm I'm going to use a 75ohm INteconnect between the Headphone and the amp, that should solve any mis match issues
> 
> for a low impedance headphone I'd get ur sef like a $20 impedance adapter. A few reputable sellers are on ebay or the DIY guys might be able to build you one as well.


 
 Impedance adapter....? Link please...


----------



## Makiah S

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300453295797?_trksid=m570.p2050601.l4766&_trkparms=ga1m%3DT5%26ga2m%3DT2%26ga3m%3DT0%26ga4m%3DT1
  
 I few other head fi'rs enjoy them 
  
 I've got  a member selling me one he's got hopefully in the next few days


----------



## MickeyVee

So, basically your asking for a Bifrost Uber with Gen 2 USB only on a Modi package.. Would be a perfect match for the Vali.  I'm in!!
  
 Quote:


nic rhodes said:


> for fear of making this more a DAC thread than it is already, perhaps there is a market for Schiit for a Modi2 (to run in parallel to Modi rather than replace), same case, same connection but at $199 and better quality? I would buy Jason.


----------



## FLguy

smg52 said:


> Impedance adapter....? Link please...


 
  
 Well, I understand that this (impedance adapters) may be a bit of a controversial topic, but those considering use of an impedance adapter may be interested in this thread:
  
           Impedance Adapters/Cables | Explained & Listed:
           http://www.head-fi.org/t/601669/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed
  
 I noticed that there is discussion of the possibility of damage to some amplifiers.  I'm not smart enough to know whether that's real or not, and if it is, with which amps it would or could apply.  Maybe someone(s) more knowledgeable than me will clarify whether this would or could apply to the Vali or not...


----------



## Makiah S

flguy said:


> Well, I understand that this (impedance adapters) may be a bit of a controversial topic, but those considering use of an impedance adapter may be interested in this thread:
> 
> Impedance Adapters/Cables | Explained & Listed:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/601669/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed
> ...


 
 Good point, wonder if Schiit could make some kind of adapter to reduce the gain of the Vali.


----------



## manbear

If you're interested in impedance adapters, there's a good discussion going on in the speaker amps for headphones thread. Unless I'm mistaken, the "er4 p to s" type adapters have resistors in series, hence they will affect the damping factor of dynamic headphones. Mind you, this doesn't necessarily matter that much. While they can change the frequency response of a dynamic headphone, the change might not sound objectionable. I have one of these adapters in 300 ohms, and I thought it sounded great with my Q701 and Emotiva Mini-x speaker amp. However, planar headphones are immune to this changing damping factor effect, so they work great for planars.
  
 If you don't want to affect damping factor on dynamic headphones, you will need to get more complicated with a multi-resistor network. This will allow you to present a suitably low impedance to the headphones. 

 Also, you can find the max output power into your headphones with a single series resistor in each channel (e.g. the er4 p to s type adapter) using the formula (((max amp voltage)*(headphone impedance)) / (adapter impedance + headphone impedance))^2  / (headphone impedance). Check out the speaker amps thread for more formulas, like for decibel attenuation.

 You can also get RCA attenuators on the amp's inputs. I'm not sure how these affect the sound in regards to the input impedance of the amp and the output impedance of your source, but it doesn't seem like they would affect the damping factor of the headphones.


----------



## leesure

k.t. said:


> HE-400 and 500 in the house! And interestingly, I think they sound better on the Magni!
> 
> That after I preferred, by far, the HD598, DT770, PSB M4U1 on the Vali. I mean, the Vali blew away the Magni on these phones.
> 
> ...




The Vali will drive the Audeze cans nicely, but it's underpowered fir the HifiMan offerings.


----------



## TMRaven

hmorneau said:


> I'm listening to "New slaves - Kanye West" and there is lot of distortion. Lowering the volume fix it, but that amps is not powerful enough to drive the T1 to their full potential.


 
  
 What does this distortion sound like to you?


----------



## JoeKickass

flguy said:


> Well, I understand that this (impedance adapters) may be a bit of a controversial topic, but those considering use of an impedance adapter may be interested in this thread:
> 
> Impedance Adapters/Cables | Explained & Listed:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/601669/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed
> ...


 
 I've been posting this link over and over, but head-fi already has a great thread on balanced attenuation and making attenuating adapters:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/198828/the-hissbuster-for-sensitive-headphones
  
 And it has listed combinations of resistors for attenuating the signal without changing the impedance that the amp and headphones "see" so there should be zero risk to the equipment involved. I don't think you can just throw a 75 ohm resistor in line with the signal and call it a day like the one on ebay...


----------



## hmorneau

tmraven said:


> What does this distortion sound like to you?


 
 "When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than its power supply can produce, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal can be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping". The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a sine wave becoming a distorted square-wave-type waveform."
  
 I think it sum up what I mean by distortion, in fact it's more "clipping" according to wikipedia.


----------



## SMG52

leesure said:


> The Vali will drive the Audeze cans nicely, but it's underpowered fir the HifiMan offerings.


 
 Any experience in how much background 'noise' (gain hiss or whatever) there is when driving the low impedance, efficient LCD-X headphones?


----------



## purrin

olor1n said:


> My previous comment about a "lack" of slam is in relation to the Mjolnir, which hits _hard_. I don't find the Vali dynamically compressed at all though. And I certainly don't perceive it losing detail in busy passages or miring the presentation with overdriven distortion. There's bound to be variance in findings based on many factors, but some of the impressions here are utterly baffling.


 
  
 LOL. Just one (of the two) power transformers in the Mojo probably weights 5x the weight of the Vali.


----------



## purrin

smg52 said:


> Any experience in how much background 'noise' (gain hiss or whatever) there is when driving the low impedance, efficient LCD-X headphones?


 
  
 I didn't hear any noise. But it didn't seem like a good match. LCD-X was lethargic from Vali. Figure 8 ohms output Z and 22 ohms nominal Z of LCD-X getting too close for comfort. I had better results from a portable with low output Z, i.e. UHA-6S.


----------



## wes008

hmorneau said:


> tmraven said:
> 
> 
> > What does this distortion sound like to you?
> ...


 
 But what does it sound like to YOU?  We all know what clipping technically is.  We want to know how the Vali sonically performs with the T1.


----------



## TMRaven

hmorneau said:


> "When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than its power supply can produce, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal can be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping". The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a sine wave becoming a distorted square-wave-type waveform."
> 
> I think it sum up what I mean by distortion, in fact it's more "clipping" according to wikipedia.


 
  
 Yes, but what does it sound like to you?  Can you describe what you hear that seems off at specific times in the song?


----------



## hmorneau

wes008 said:


> But what does it sound like to YOU?  We all know what clipping technically is.  We want to know how the Vali sonically performs with the T1.


 
 Well, I guess that it sound to me the same way as it is technically sounding... Clipping is clipping no mater who listen to it.
  
 But for sure, I'm used to drive my T1 with an amp able to deliver 1,7 watts @ 600ohm and the vali is a 0,1 watts @ 600ohm. 
  
 So when you only have 6% of the power available it should come at no surprise that I think it's really easy to make it clip.


----------



## purrin

k.t. said:


> I was bummed that I had a potentially orphaned Magni after the Vali arrived. But the Magni will have a place driving my HE-400s and 500s.
> 
> Oh wait.... I have an Asgard 2 coming. Will the Magni become an orphan, yet?


 
  
 Depends on how good your DAC is. The driver control advantages of the Magni with headphones such as the HE400, HE500, HD650 are likely outweigh any "benefits" of the Vali with a modest DAC. Once you move up to something decent, it becomes a more difficult call. As has been said numerous times, especially earlier on in this thread, ultimate driver control is not a strength of the Vali. It never will be with that 8 ohm output Z.
  
 The question is what level (if any) of DAC'age will yield a sufficiently convincing "goose bump" or "chill run down spine" factor which will allow us to overlook the lack of ultimate driver control of the Vali to favor the Vali over the Magni. (And even then, the Magni's driver control is nothing compared to the Mjolnir, and the Mjolnir's driver control is nothing compared to a good speaker power amp, and even then that's one one factor of music reproduction criteria.)
  
 This is why I have urged folks with the Vali to get a better DAC. It's probable (no guarantee of course) that you will start hearing better results. Take this from somebody who has a slew of craptastic $99 DACs to $4000 DAC/USB converters in the house. But my advice is generally don't bother with the Vali if you just want to sidegrade from one $99 DAC to another $79 DAC or another $159 DAC which performs like a $69 DAC.


----------



## hmorneau

tmraven said:


> Yes, but what does it sound like to you?  Can you describe what you hear that seems off at specific times in the song?


 
 Well, don't get me wrong, the T1 perform way (10 times) better on the vali that the DT880 does. On the auditor the difference is not that big. The DT880 perform very well on the auditor and the T1 marginaly better, but on the vali it's an other story.
  
  
 The DT880 (2003 @250ohms) have no control, and sound "wobbly" (I don't even know if it's a word). It's probably because the DT880 are harder to drive than the T1. 
  
 I will give a try to the DT880 @600ohms


----------



## hmorneau

purrin said:


> Depends on how good your DAC is. The driver control advantages of the Magni with headphones such as the HE400, HE500, HD650 are likely outweigh any "benefits" of the Vali with a modest DAC. Once you move up to something decent, it becomes a more difficult call. As has been said numerous times, especially earlier on in this thread, ultimate driver control is not a strength of the Vali. It never will be with that 8 ohm output Z.
> 
> The question is what level (if any) of DAC'age will yield a sufficiently convincing "goose bump" or "chill run down spine" factor which will allow us to overlook the lack of ultimate driver control of the Vali to favor the Vali over the Magni. (And even then, the Magni's driver control is nothing compared to the Mjolnir, and the Mjolnir's driver control is nothing compared to a good speaker power amp, and even then that's one one factor of music reproduction criteria.)
> 
> This is why I have urged folks with the Vali to get a better DAC. It's probable (no guarantee of course) that you will start hearing better results. Take this from somebody who has a slew of craptastic $99 DACs to $4000 DAC/USB converters in the house. But my advice is generally don't bother with the Vali if you just want to sidegrade from one $99 DAC to another $79 DAC or another $159 DAC which performs like a $69 DAC.


 
 Maybe I should upgrade my DAC then, what is the best DAC with the vali according to you?


----------



## purrin

hmorneau said:


> Well, I guess that it sound to me the same way as it is technically sounding... Clipping is clipping no mater who listen to it.
> 
> But for sure, I'm used to drive my T1 with an amp able to deliver 1,7 watts @ 600ohm and the vali is a 0,1 watts @ 600ohm.
> 
> So when you only have 6% of the power available it should come at no surprise that I think it's really easy to make it clip.


 
  
 That's not how it works. The T1 is rated at 102db at 1mw by Beyer. How loud are you listening?


----------



## nicdub

leesure said:


> The Vali will drive the Audeze cans nicely, but it's underpowered fir the HifiMan offerings.




I feel the HE-400's are great with Vali, but the HE-500 not so much, or at least not as much. Glad to hear the Audeze's work well, as I have some LCD2's on order (Black Friday awesomeness!). Would love to hear more impressions with the LCD2 specifically, being that it is a little harder to drive. Or even a comparison of the Magni and Vali with the LCD's.


----------



## purrin

hmorneau said:


> Maybe I should upgrade my DAC then, what is the best DAC with the vali according to you?


 
  
 Let's just say you're not tube guy and I'm not an Auditor guy and definitely not a T1 guy. Besides I'm comparing Vali to Magni, not Vali to your $2000 Auditor.


----------



## hmorneau

purrin said:


> That's not how it works. The T1 is rated at 102db at 1mw by Beyer. How loud are you listening?


 
 I know that I hit the limit of the T1 before the amp. I have never heard any distortion with the auditor no mater how loud I drive it (with my DAC set on FIXED (max output) plugged with XLR) so my gain is pretty strong, I can only go to +6db on the auditor, after that I feel like I can blow those headphone, it really feel like an unsafe territory.
  
 On the vali I can easly push it to clipping.


----------



## purrin

nicdub said:


> I feel the HE-400's are great with Vali, but the HE-500 not so much, or at least not as much. Glad to hear the Audeze's work well, as I have some LCD2's on order (Black Friday awesomeness!). Would love to hear more impressions with the LCD2 specifically, being that it is a little harder to drive. Or even a comparison of the Magni and Vali with the LCD's.


 
  
 Agreed. The HE-400 are much easier to drive. The HE-500s have a strong tendency of being muddy and ill-defined - they need a lot more.


----------



## purrin

hmorneau said:


> I know that I hit the limit of the T1 before the amp. I have never heard any distortion with the auditor no mater how loud I drive it (with my DAC set on FIXED (max output) plugged with XLR) so my gain is pretty strong, I can only go to +6db on the auditor, after that I feel like I can blow those headphone, it really feel like an unsafe territory.
> 
> On the vali I can easly push it to clipping.


 
  
 Try lowering output on your DAC?


----------



## hmorneau

purrin said:


> Let's just say you're not tube guy and I'm not an Auditor guy and definitely not a T1 guy.


 
 What not to like about the Auditor? It take the source and it amp it, nothing added, nothing substracted.
  
 You can hear everything, small glitch in a recording, you can hear so many things.


----------



## purrin

hmorneau said:


> What not to like about the Auditor? It take the source and it amp it, nothing added, nothing substracted.
> 
> You can hear everything, small glitch in a recording, you can hear so many things.


 
  
 Slight treble etch added and lots information subtracted compared to better amps, of which there are many, and most more expensive. Also slightly flat and compressed. I've done direct comparisons with the Auditor with other amps using the same DAC and headphones. But we are getting off topic.
  
 BTW, in regards to getting a better DAC, and I don't know if you actually read what I wrote, but my comments were in the context of comparing Vali to Magni. Not Vali to $2000 Auditor.


----------



## hmorneau

purrin said:


> Slight treble etch added and lots information subtracted compared to better amps, of which there are many, and most more expensive. But we are getting off topic.
> 
> BTW, in regards to getting a better DAC, and I don't know if you actually read what I wrote, but my comments were in the context of comparing Vali to Magni. Not Vali to $2000 Auditor.


 
 Well, do you think the vali deliver more details than the auditor? If so, we don't agree here.
  
 About the DAC thing, you said that the vali will be more detailled with a better dac, I have a W4S DAC2, what I should upgrade to?


----------



## Robobandit

Got my Vali today and hooked it up to the Modi (disconnected the Magni)..
  
 I got some minor microphonics when I first turned it on (I made it a point to power it on before connecting my headphones so i could see how bad they were)
  
 I also hear a little when I touch the volume pot, but not if there is music playing.
  
 When I'm not messing with the volume pot and there's no music playing, I don't hear any noise at all. I was worried that my SRH1840s would be sensitive enough to hear noise from the vali, but thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case. 
  
 edit - I take that back, I do hear a bit of noise, but it's not bothersome. 
  
 I'm only about 30 minutes in to listening on the Vali and it already sounds better to me than the Magni with these headphones.
  
 All of this DAC talk has got me thinking about a BiFrost Uber and selling the Magni/Modi combo.
  
 Going to put 100 or so hours through the Vali before I do anything too crazy, though.


----------



## hmorneau

I'm currently listening to the Vali + DT880 @600ohms (which was back in his box). I'm smiling, more details on that later 
  
 Listening to Keith don't go - Nils Lofgren


----------



## purrin

hmorneau said:


> Well, do you think the vali deliver more details than the auditor? If so, we don't agree here.


 
  
 Did I say that? Please go back and re-read what I wrote: http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1965#post_10044931 and note context of Vali vs. Magni, not Vali vs. $2000 Auditor.
  
 Please stop make arguments which I never made in the first place.


----------



## hmorneau

purrin said:


> Did I say that? Please go back and re-read what I wrote: http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1965#post_10044931 and note context of Vali vs. Magni, not Vali vs. $2000 Auditor.


 
 First, the auditor is $899 not $2000
  
 Second, English is my second language. So sorry about my literacy problem.
  
 So far the DT880 600ohms is a better match with the vali than the T1. Listening to Bob Dylan


----------



## purrin

hmorneau said:


> First, the auditor is $899 not $2000
> 
> Second, English is my second language. So sorry about my literacy problem.
> 
> So far the DT880 600ohms is a better match with the vali than the T1. Listening to Bob Dylan


 
  
 Sorry. I apologize for bring a snarky ******.


----------



## tdockweiler

Do you guys think the Lyr is a better "all-rounder" than the Vali? Does it play well with a larger variety of headphones than the Vali?
 A lot of the people testing the Vali don't have a ton of headphones (I definitely don't).
  
 I wonder if you could get the Q701 sounding as good as i've heard it on the Vali, but with specific tubes on the Lyr. Probably so.
 If the Lyr + HD-650 is more open/spacious sounding and with better bass control I would probably like it.
  
 Based on my experience it's been sort of tricky to find an amp that handles both the HD-650 and Q701 very well. I've found only a couple that do this..
  
 Despite what some think, I don't mind minor colorations. I HATE very rolled off treble and too much low-mid and mid-bass emphasis.
  
 BTW the Auditor sounds like something I'd like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I generally don't like the Beyerdynamic sound but there was something I did somewhat like about the T90 (wouldn't buy it though). If the T1 is a huge improvement over the T90 than I'd probably like it.
  
 My problem with Beyerdynamic headphones is generally the mids are kind of lean and the treble is a bit too metallic/tinny. I didn't experience this on the T90 though.
  
 I do regret trying way too many Beyerdynamic headphones. The DT-880 32ohm version is my favorite but definitely not as easy to drive as people say!
  
 DT-990 PRO was just awful to me and had distant mids. DT-770 Pro 80 was technically worse but had better mids. I used a DT-990 250ohm for 3 years once. Hard to believe! I never once felt it was bassy. Same with my Triple Fi 10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It'd be interesting to see what the Vali does for the 32, 250 and 600ohm versions of the DT-990/880. Maybe it can't handle a specific version very well? Not likely..


----------



## MattTCG

tdockweiler said:


> *Do you guys think the Lyr is a better "all-rounder" than the Vali? Does it play well with a larger variety of headphones than the Vali?*
> *A lot of the people testing the Vali don't have a ton of headphones (I definitely don't).*
> 
> I wonder if you could get the Q701 sounding as good as i've heard it on the Vali, but with specific tubes on the Lyr. Probably so.
> ...


 
  
 Well, it depends on the hp's of course.  For me, with hp's that like power the lyr just seems to do a better job with dynamics as well as finesse.  The he500, he400, MD and AD sound best to me on the lyr. 
  
 As far as an "all rounder" the lyr will be limited due to it's inherent power. If the Vali drove hp's like the ma900 without noise then it would be a good candidate for that title. But for me it doesn't as I still get noise with the ma900 and Vali.


----------



## tdockweiler

hmorneau said:


> Well, do you think the vali deliver more details than the auditor? If so, we don't agree here.
> 
> About the DAC thing, you said that the vali will be more detailled with a better dac, I have a W4S DAC2, what I should upgrade to?


 
  
 Your DAC costs $1400. I think that would be way more than enough! I.E. "acceptable" to most people here


----------



## TheGame

I read a post a little while back talking about burn-in with the Vali (I can't seem to find that post). Is the Vali subject to burn-in - meaning will it begin to sound better after a certain amount of hours of burn in? And if the answer to that is yes, how will it sound better? Warmer? Brighter? Or just better sounding overall?
  
 Thanks for any input and sorry if this was addressed before (I believe it was in one post, but I cannot find it).


----------



## manbear

hmorneau said:


> Well, do you think the vali deliver more details than the auditor? If so, we don't agree here.
> 
> About the DAC thing, you said that the vali will be more detailled with a better dac, I have a W4S DAC2, what I should upgrade to?





 If you want to be absolutely certain your DAC is good enough, I would suggest a Weiss Maya. To bring the Vali to its full potential 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or maybe a DCS Vivaldi...


 *I'm just joshing you. My DAC costs more than the rest of my gear combined, so I'm not one to hate on DACs.


----------



## hmorneau

tdockweiler said:


> Do you guys think the Lyr is a better "all-rounder" than the Vali? Does it play well with a larger variety of headphones than the Vali?
> A lot of the people testing the Vali don't have a ton of headphones (I definitely don't).
> 
> I wonder if you could get the Q701 sounding as good as i've heard it on the Vali, but with specific tubes on the Lyr. Probably so.
> ...


 
 I'm a "beyer" guy, if I can say that... It's the only thing I have (because it's easy to get them in Canada)
  
 I have the T1
 DT880 03 (250ohms)
 DT880 09 (600ohms)
  
 The DT880 03 was my first hifi headphone.
  
 I have always disliked my DT880 @600ohms, I though they was dry and lacking bass (where the DT880 03 was performing way better) even if the 600ohms newer model was more detailed than the DT880 03' 250ohms. I think my DT880 600ohms only got like 20 hours of head time, I was about to sell them (just procrastinating doing it).
  
 Now, like 30 minutes ago I decided to take them off the box and plug them into the vali. I must say: Wow. I'm hooked.
  
 Too early for more impression, but I A/B that setup currently: 
 Auditor + T1 <----> Vali + DT880 @600ohms.
  
 Basically a 2100$ setup vs a 400$ setup.
  
 If I would have to compare them in 1 word:
  
 Analytical vs Fun
  
 I never though I would use the word fun to describe those DT880. I will post more later.


----------



## DaveUpton

Regarding DAC pairing with the Vali on my T90's, I've found incredibly synergy with my KingRex UD384. Absolutely fantastic, comparing to ODAC, AQ DragonFly - this thing is just a great pairing. Soundstage opened up fairly dramatically and I notice much more impact in the bass. More listening to do obviously, but this will be my go-to DAC for the Vali from here.


----------



## hmorneau

thegame said:


> I read a post a little while back talking about burn-in with the Vali (I can't seem to find that post). Is the Vali subject to burn-in - meaning will it begin to sound better after a certain amount of hours of burn in? And if the answer to that is yes, how will it sound better? Warmer? Brighter? Or just better sounding overall?
> 
> Thanks for any input and sorry if this was addressed before (I believe it was in one post, but I cannot find it).


 
 I have read somewhere that the sound stage open up after burn in.


----------



## hmorneau

tdockweiler said:


> Your DAC costs $1400. I think that would be way more than enough! I.E. "acceptable" to most people here


 
 I got it second hand for less, I was just tired shopping around for an XLR DAC and it was the only decent one available for sale on the forum. Also the usb works on Linux, which is important for me. That's why I took that one. 
  
 But I guess it's good enough. I have plugged the vali in my cellphone (nexus 5) yesterday, and the result is terrible. But playing Plants vs Zombies with the T1 was immersive


----------



## MickeyVee

In case anyone is interested, tried the Vali with the DragonFly.  A little too lean and sharp with less air and detail on the HD800 so it's a no go.  Still nice with the WA7 DAC. Going to audition the Arcam irDAC tomorrow.  From a feature persecutive, if you're a Mac/iDevice person, this has to die for features.  Hope it's an upgrade ti the WA7 DAC.


----------



## purrin

thegame said:


> I read a post a little while back talking about burn-in with the Vali (I can't seem to find that post). Is the Vali subject to burn-in - meaning will it begin to sound better after a certain amount of hours of burn in? And if the answer to that is yes, how will it sound better? Warmer? Brighter? Or just better sounding overall?
> 
> Thanks for any input and sorry if this was addressed before (I believe it was in one post, but I cannot find it).


 
  
 A huge part of burn-in is getting familiar with how gear sounds. The realizing of subtle aspects, getting accustomed the nuances, etc.
  
 Just remember, burn-in NEVER results in any piece of gear sounding worse. Only better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Why this is, I do not know.


----------



## hmorneau

Purrin, what do you think about the sound stage of the Vali?


----------



## rreifsn

Hey guys, one more update on my Vali experience.  I just received my replacement amp from Schiit and it is working beautifully.  My original amp would develop a constant ringing in the right channel after powering up for 10 minutes or so even when it was completely isolated from any vibration.  The new one is dead quiet except for some minor microphonics when first turned on.  It also sounds great with my HE400s out of the box.  My setup is PC - Uber Bifrost - Vali - HE400/HD600.  Can't wait to see how it burns in.  BTW, original amp was serial # 000126 and the new one is #000634 for those of you that like tracking that sort of thing.  I know I do. 
  
 Quick shout out to Jason, Nick and Laura at Schiit, thanks for your help.


----------



## hmorneau

I have the #000539, I ordered it the first day, (but late evening).
  
 I wonder how much they sold of that little amp.


----------



## jexby

hmorneau said:


> Purrin, what do you think about the sound stage of the Vali?


 
  
 going to playfully guess at an answer here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 "It's better than the Lyr (with bad JJ tubes) for sure, and really sounds on par with some Amps 10X it's cost or size.
 Vali is super special!"
  
 no offense intended.


----------



## ravager

eccom said:


> The Audioquest dragonfly is ony 100 USD on amazon at the moment, a good alternative to the Modi or Odac if you want a compact dac that alos works an amp when out and about.




Great tip!!! Just bought one. Will be interested to compare to Modi and the D1.


----------



## FLguy

daveupton said:


> Regarding DAC pairing with the Vali on my T90's, I've found incredibly synergy with my KingRex UD384. Absolutely fantastic, comparing to ODAC, AQ DragonFly - this thing is just a great pairing. Soundstage opened up fairly dramatically and I notice much more impact in the bass. More listening to do obviously, but this will be my go-to DAC for the Vali from here.


 
  
 Interesting -nice to hear of another promising DAC. Are you using it with or without the separate power supply?


----------



## purrin

hmorneau said:


> Purrin, what do you think about the sound stage of the Vali?


 
  
 In general, and compared to the best amps in sound stage (basically anything using DHTs, and particularly the EC gear using the high-frequency filament heaters): The Vali is severely lacking depth, very upfront, fairly wide with well defined boundaries, lacking sense of the venue space from ambient cues. It does have good localization and stable imaging though. I've switched around DACs (some DACs are better at staging than others) and the Vali does not change much and appears to be a bottleneck in terms of staging.
  
 It's better than the Lyr (with bad JJ tubes) for sure, and really sounds on par with most, but not all solid-state amps up to 18X it's cost or size. Vali is not that special in this area.


----------



## gikigill

Not sure if serious....


----------



## Tequilasunriser

...welp I've read enough. Unsubbing.


----------



## Rem0o

tequilasunriser said:


> ...welp I've read enough. Unsubbing.


 
 I can leave my computer 5 minutes and this thread gets over a hundred posts during that time, all asking about the soundstage or how it's a giant killer. It gets old.


----------



## Beagle

It has issues but for $129 it's a friggin' STEAL!


----------



## tdockweiler

beagle said:


> It has issues but for $129 it's a friggin' STEAL!


 
  
 I've found it has bad synergy with my Parts Express Mini Headphone. Lack of treble and poor imaging.
 With a good amp that thing sounds worth about 3x it's price.
  
 WA22 was a far better match but I returned that because it's not transportable enough for me.


----------



## worldtipper

rreifsn said:


> Hey guys, one more update on my Vali experience.  I just received my replacement amp from Schiit and it is working beautifully.  My original amp would develop a constant ringing in the right channel after powering up for 10 minutes or so even when it was completely isolated from any vibration.  The new one is dead quiet except for some minor microphonics when first turned on.  It also sounds great with my HE400s out of the box.  My setup is PC - Uber Bifrost - Vali - HE400/HD600.  Can't wait to see how it burns in.  BTW, original amp was serial # 000126 and the new one is #000634 for those of you that like tracking that sort of thing.  I know I do.
> 
> Quick shout out to Jason, Nick and Laura at Schiit, thanks for your help.


 

 Hmm mine is #000117 and also has a constant ringing in the right channel. It's quiet but always there, and even touching the volume knob riles up the tubes. Having acquired it used, I guess I'm SOL. It's tolerable but annoying at times.


----------



## CEE TEE

^I have mine on some foamy shelf liner. Either turning it off for a little bit or_ holding the case firmly against the shelf liner (until ringing stops) _has worked so far.


----------



## Solarium

I might be able to upgrade my HD598 to HD650 tomorrow. I just got the Magni and the Vali is on the way. Which should I keep for the HD650?


----------



## BournePerfect

solarium said:


> I might be able to upgrade my HD598 to HD650 tomorrow. I just got the Magni and the Vali is on the way. Which should I keep for the HD650?


 
  
 Why don't you listen for yourself, and let us know what you decide?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## tomb

purrin said:


> hmorneau said:
> 
> 
> > Purrin, what do you think about the sound stage of the Vali?
> ...


 
  
  


worldtipper said:


> > Hmm mine is #000117 and also has a constant ringing in the right channel. It's quiet but always there, and even touching the volume knob riles up the tubes. Having acquired it used, I guess I'm SOL. It's tolerable but annoying at times.


 
  
 Seems like I read purrin saying a while back that the microphonics might enhance the performance of the amp.
  
 It's also nice to know that it's better than the Lyr equipped with _bad_ tubes.  Does _bad_ mean microphonic or something else wrong with the tubes?
  
 Just curious, but has anyone done an analysis on the 18X factor?  It's good to know that a box greater than 18X larger in size will sound better.


----------



## Solarium

bourneperfect said:


> Why don't you listen for yourself, and let us know what you decide?
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I'm able to return the Magni without a restocking fee, but the Vali I ordered directly from Schiit and it will incur a 15% restocking fee. If most people didn't have a good experience combining the Vali and HD650 I'd rather directly return the package without opening it (avoiding the restocking fee).


----------



## Zuckfun

The sound of the Lyr mirrors the tubes that are used. To give an assessment of this amp without tube rolling- without knowledge of it's full potential- seems to do a disservice to this piece of equipment.


----------



## purrin

tomb said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> worldtipper said:
> ...


 
  
 tomb, just please stop being an jerk. It seems Schiit is taking care of their customers for the few units where this has happened. I believe that they raised the planned price point of the amp to take into account losses because of these issues related to tubes. These things happen with tubes, when they are old-stock pencil tubes or new production. I just purchased a set of four matched new production EML 45 meshes. One of them went bad. The supplier took care of it for me. Either way, it's not your call or my call on the reliability / profitability factor of these units. It's Schiit's.
  


tomb said:


> It's also nice to know that it's better than the Lyr equipped with _bad_ tubes.


 

  
 You already know this answer to this and "bad" was in reference to the new production JJ tubes which used to be provided with the Lyr. They are known to not sound very good on the Lyr. But you already know this.
  
 I'll be man enough to apologize to you for being an ass. Let's put our previous bad blood aside, stop our petty BS, and move forward from here. Maybe if we ever meet, I can buy you a beer or something. It has always been one of my desires to build one of the kits that you offer.


----------



## tomb

purrin said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...


 

 I already made the call about microphonics - several pages back in these posts.  _You know it._
  
 As for "bad" tubes, it would be nice to have a more specific answer.
  
 You also neglected to explain how an 18X box size will sound better.
  
 Seriously, purrin - I have respected you in the past, too.  But you need to back off a bit.


----------



## purrin

tomb said:


> I already made the call about microphonics - several pages back in these posts.  _You know it._
> 
> As for "bad" tubes, it would be nice to have a more specific answer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes you called it. Now it's in Schiit's hands.
  
 As for bad tubes, when I said "bad JJ", I meant the JJ 6922/EC88CC. The "18X" was an obvious joke and a play on Jexby's post. I would have hoped that people would have understood that.
  
 Again, I'm sorry if I have offended you.


----------



## tomb

purrin said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > I already made the call about microphonics - several pages back in these posts.  _You know it._
> ...


 

 Well, I'm sorry if I have offended you, too, but it's not really personal.  For instance, I have an amp right now with JJ 6922 tubes.  IMHO, it sounds great.  Just what is wrong with them?


----------



## MickeyVee

Just as a reference point.. I've run the Vali for about 12 hours or so using the Woo WA7 DAC.  Really enjoyed the sessions I had with the Vali.  So, I switched back to the WA7 and the WA7 amp section is definitely superior to the Vali in pretty much every respect.  Not huge but definitely noticeable.  
 Lets do some really rough math:  Assuming the Woo WA7 price wise is 1/2 DAC and 2/3 amp that would put the price, with the EH tubes, at about $750. Vali $120 or the WA7 amp at roughly 6.25x the cost.  Is the WA7 6x better than the Vali.  Nope but it is noticeable better.. not going to put a number on it, that would be crazy.
 So, with exactly the same DAC, comparing amp to amp, the 18X factor fails 
  
 The Vali is simply the best $100-$400 amp _that I've heard_ and I've gone through my share of entry level stuff from the uDAC to the FiiO E17/E9 combo to the Matrix Mini-i to the Schiit Lyr plus a bunch of other stuff.  Good on Schiit.. they have a real winner here.
  
 What everyone is forgetting about is source and synergy.  My comments are based on the HD800 which is very different than my mix and match DAC, amp and headphones of yester year. YMMV.
  
 Just an ask for future posters.. please, please list your source/DAC and headphones
  
 Would I recommend the Vali with a decent DAC for the HD800 to get your feet wet with?  Hell yes!  Its a steal and a great beginning.
  
 Nuff said. Just going to sit back and enjoy for a while.
  
  
 Quote:


tomb said:


> Just curious, but has anyone done an analysis on the 18X factor?  It's good to know that a box greater than 18X larger in size will sound better.


----------



## purrin

tomb said:


> Well, I'm sorry if I have offended you, too, but it's not really personal.  For instance, I have an amp right now with JJ 6922 tubes.  IMHO, it sounds great.  Just what is wrong with them?


 
  
 It's the context. I stated that I felt the Vali sounded better than the Lyr in certain characteristics (microdynamics / microdetail). Jexby countered that he felt he Lyr was better than the Vali in those areas and asked what tubes I was using with the Lyr. I stated the "stock JJs", which Jexby replied were not particularly good sounding compared to the specific old stock tubes which he was using. He also pointed out that Schiit is now offering NOS tubes with the Lyr now.


----------



## jexby

tmraven said:


> You have a responsibility to the community too, maybe take it to PMs instead of trying to crap on a thread and making me scroll more than I'd want when looking for schiit impressions.   -1 to beezar.com


 
  
 wait!  but what about an amp that is 28x times the cost but roughly 38X the size and wattage?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 all too hilarious.
 some folks here needs the chill pill.  have fun, enjoy the music and the Vali.
 really now.  did anyone expect a $119 amp with the myriad of headphones, DACs and computers y'all use would be end game for everyone one of us?
  
 no one thing is perfect for everything. (tm)
 that's my new head-fi motto.


----------



## tomb

purrin said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I'm sorry if I have offended you, too, but it's not really personal.  For instance, I have an amp right now with JJ 6922 tubes.  IMHO, it sounds great.  Just what is wrong with them?
> ...


 

 Well, OK - that makes sense, but someone else reading these posts (me?) might think there's something wrong with JJ 6922 tubes ("bad?")
  
 Perhaps that's nit-picking and as you say, it's out of context to apply it somewhere else.  I still wonder about the claims and the tube microphonics.  If Schiit is having to replace entire amps (good for them!), I can't believe it will remain profitable over the long term.  But then again, maybe my sense about these tubes from talking to Pete is exaggerated.
  
 I apologize for dropping the bombs tonight and will go back to DIY.


----------



## tdockweiler

I'm really glad I at least got to try the Vali. It kind of has me interested in more hybrid tube amps.
 I should have just skipped it and tried the Lyr instead. Some say it's very warm (stock) and that scares me away.
 I'd probably replace the tubes with something that's more neutral. I know that it will never sound like an O2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I saw someone call the Valhalla transparent and I was like "What the heck?". Maybe that's a better idea.
  
 If I can get the Lyr to sound as similar as the Vali + Q701 then that's good enough for me.
 The major worry is getting the Q701 AND HD-650 to play well with the same amp.
 I'm in the Q701 thread a lot and rarely hear good impressions of the Lyr and Q701. Not sure why..
  
 If I ever get a Lyr I will not post impressions about it (probably a relief to some). My guess if I love a Schiit amp it'll be one of the most expensive models.
 If I don't like some of their stuff it's no big deal to me and just trade it or sell it.
  
 Audio Advisor has a 30 day guarantee and they're 1 hour away. Won't be for another few months.
 I wouldn't buy it without researching up on tubes though..who knows, I might love it stock.
  
 I think my leaner sounding DAC might be perfect for it as is.
  
 Sometimes when my brain tells me to avoid specific headphones/gear I sometimes end up loving it, but this is rare.
 The last case of that happening was the K712. Everyone told me i'd hate it but I liked it. Maybe the Lyr will end up like that?


----------



## TheGame

rreifsn said:


> Hey guys, one more update on my Vali experience.  I just received my replacement amp from Schiit and it is working beautifully.  My original amp would develop a constant ringing in the right channel after powering up for 10 minutes or so even when it was completely isolated from any vibration.  The new one is dead quiet except for some minor microphonics when first turned on.  It also sounds great with my HE400s out of the box.  My setup is PC - Uber Bifrost - Vali - HE400/HD600.  Can't wait to see how it burns in.  BTW, original amp was serial # 000126 and the new one is #000634 for those of you that like tracking that sort of thing.  I know I do.
> 
> Quick shout out to Jason, Nick and Laura at Schiit, thanks for your help.


 

 That's awesome news. I remember your post about the constant ringing on the right channel. Seems like Schiit took care of you really quickly, that's awesome. I've only had an issue once with the microphonics, I heard the ringing in the left channel and it stayed for a long time. All I did was turn off the unit for about a minute, then turned it back on. After I turned it back on the ringing lasted about 5-10 seconds then everything went silent again. No problems since. The only thing I do is about 10-20 minutes before a listening session I turn on the Vali and plug the headphones in and set them down. When it is time to listen, the Vali has had time to warm up, headphones were already plugged in, so I just put the headphones on and I never hear the microphonics at all with that one exception I mentioned earlier.


----------



## Makiah S

purrin said:


> LOL. Just one (of the two) power transformers in the Mojo probably weights 5x the weight of the Vali.




indeed lol i belive the one transformer in my Agd 10es2 weighs more than the vali xD I really only got the vali for my picky but sensitive 42 ohm w1000x


----------



## DigitalFreak

Why is it everywhere I go I can't stop running across someone ruining a thread with drama? I'm starting to understand why the ignore button is a valuable tool on here. Hey Marv, you really don't have to put up with rudeness. I'm beginning to use my ignore function more on here and I recommend you do too. In the end it's their loss not yours.


----------



## Makiah S

digitalfreak said:


> Why is it everywhere I go I can't stop running across someone ruining a thread with drama? I'm starting to understand why the ignore button is a valuable tool on here. Hey Marv, you really don't have to put up with rudeness. I'm beginning to use my ignore function more on here and I recommend you do too. In the end it's their loss not yours.




Glad ive avoided some of that 

also Im wondering where to put ny vali...


----------



## DigitalFreak

mshenay said:


> Glad ive avoided some of that
> 
> also Im wondering where to put ny vali...




Put it as close at hand as possible


----------



## DarknightDK

I have been listening to the Vali with the HD800 on my main rig the past couple of days and I don't miss my WA22.
  
 The Vali is exceptionally good for its price. Great detail, micro dynamics and _smooth_. 
  
 While there are things the WA22 does better, the Vali is serious competition for its price.
  
 Will post more impressions when I get to compare both properly.


----------



## jbarrentine

What is the next logical step definitively UP from Vali in the tube arena? 
  
 Ember? Woo Audio something? Tremendously interested in tubes now (Don't know that I'm so interested in rolling, but will probably end up there anyway).


----------



## Makiah S

jbarrentine said:


> What is the next logical step definitively UP from Vali in the tube arena?
> 
> Ember? Woo Audio something? Tremendously interested in tubes now (Don't know that I'm so interested in rolling, but will probably end up there anyway).


 
 I would think the Valhalla actually. I hear it has a simmilar sound to the Vali, very non tube ish tube
  
 I would be willing to be the Vali is possibly a Mini Valhalla, assuming the two share... well [Non changeable tubes (or THE BEST tubes are already in it TUBES)}
  
 ANyways looking at the power specs of each, and the tube implimentatio and the sound chareteristics. I think the Valalla ought to be a nice logical step up. Maybe... honsetly


----------



## kazsud

Lmao
Good one


----------



## Makiah S

kazsud said:


> Lmao
> Good one


 
 Hey buddy, wow you've been on head fi for a while huh, guess you tend to forget head fi's only rule... you know to not be an ass... but since you seems to know what's going on here maybe... I dunno you con contribute something useful here instead of well you know being an ass <3
  
 That said, I generally have no idea... I'm not a tube guy... and I'd have no idea what to upgrade the Vali with... any one have some suggestions :3 apprently mine was a little off ^^


----------



## quovadis123

Hi guys
 I just returned a Schiit Magni, and hifiman 400 headphones.
 The combination was not good.
  
 I am considering a Vahalla. 
 What tubes are best for listening to pop music? The standard tubes? Or do I have to change them?
  
 Also what headphones do you recommend with the Va?
  
 I still am searching for headphones that deliver plenty of bass, without distorting the other frequencies.
  
 thanks


----------



## ravager

quovadis123 said:


> Hi guys
> I just returned a Schiit Magni, and hifiman 400 headphones.
> The combination was not good.
> 
> ...



You will probably have better luck asking that question on a Vahalla thread. Sorry I can't help.


----------



## Makiah S

quovadis123 said:


> Hi guys
> I just returned a Schiit Magni, and hifiman 400 headphones.
> The combination was not good.
> 
> ...


 
 honestly I heard some positives things about the HE 400 with the Vali, I assume the Valhalla wouldn't be a bad math either, although not sure the OTL tube would have the current to deliver the KICK the HE 400 want. But to start with, let's move this to another thread, try making on in the "introductions forum"
  
 Still you might want to try the Vali and HE 400 before u move onto the Valhalla. Heck maybe even the HE 500 and the Vali! If you've got the extra $200 to spend on the Valhalla that is [assuming you don't get the Valhalla and use the $200 to instead get an HE 500 and Vali]


----------



## purrin

jbarrentine said:


> What is the next logical step definitively UP from Vali in the tube arena?
> 
> Ember? Woo Audio something? Tremendously interested in tubes now (Don't know that I'm so interested in rolling, but will probably end up there anyway).


 
  
 Go full tubes, not hybrid. As far as definitive jumps.
  

$1190+ Woo WA 6SE (not the non SE). Generally not as tubey as some other tube amps. Overall slightly less wet than the Vali, but depends upon the tube. Zillions of tube rolling options which can drastically change the sound.
$1650 ECS7. Mix and match seven different 6SN7 tubes to your heart's desire. There are some secret non-standard tube/configurations which sound better. Kind of a drier tube sound - not particularly lush.
$2200 ECZD. OTL / highish impedance. Tubey luxurous euphonic sound . Pick one up used.
  
 One issue with full tubes: Possible not ideal matches with orthos with you want the ultimate bass control.


----------



## nicdub

quovadis123 said:


> Hi guys
> I just returned a Schiit Magni, and hifiman 400 headphones.
> The combination was not good.
> 
> ...


 
 If using planars, it seems most people feel the Lyr is the better option, as the Valhalla does not output enough power for lower impedance headphones (only 100mW at 50ohms per channel, according to Schiit's website).  My impression is the Valhalla is meant more for the Beyer and Senns, particularly the 600ohm and 300ohm versions.  I have experienced the Lyr with the HE-400, and it is quite nice, but I have no experience with the Valhalla, so take my post with a grain of sea salt.


----------



## Makiah S

purrin said:


> Go full tubes, not hybrid. As far as definitive jumps.
> 
> 
> $1190+ Woo WA 6SE (not the non SE). Generally not as tubey as some other tube amps. Overall slightly less wet than the Vali, but depends upon the tube. Zillions of tube rolling options which can drastically change the sound.
> ...


 
 Yes my HE 400 loved the exta power from the balanced ouf of my NFB 10ES2.... so a little more power might be a good idea honestly.


----------



## Barry S




----------



## Makiah S

barry s said:


>


 
 SO little ppl own the Vali atm, mines on it's way thank u
  
  
 oh and ur contribution is part of the ëverything else"<3


----------



## Barry S

mshenay said:


> SO little ppl own the Vali atm, mines on it's way thank u
> 
> 
> oh and ur contribution is part of the ëverything else"<3


 
  
 Just a gentle reminder to keep this thread on topic--not directed at you, man.


----------



## quovadis123

I assume VALI is the Vahalla from Schiit?


----------



## Makiah S

barry s said:


> Just a gentle reminder to keep this thread on topic--not directed at you, man.


 
 Oh I know, I'm just in that mood 
  
 whining about the thread de railing is still derailing
  
 ehm that said, I'm recommending the Vali to DT 880 owners... let's hope I don't end up with my foot in my mouth, however I've heard a number of ppl have positive results already! Let's ope I can confrim it


----------



## jevans2025

quovadis123 said:


> I assume VALI is the Vahalla from Schiit?




Nope, this is the vali. http://schiit.com/products/vali

A new small hybrid tube amp with long lasting non rollable internal pencil tubes.


----------



## mhamel

mshenay said:


> I would think the Valhalla actually. I hear it has a simmilar sound to the Vali, very non tube ish tube
> 
> I would be willing to be the Vali is possibly a Mini Valhalla, assuming the two share... well [Non changeable tubes (or THE BEST tubes are already in it TUBES)}
> 
> ANyways looking at the power specs of each, and the tube implimentatio and the sound chareteristics. I think the Valalla ought to be a nice logical step up. Maybe... honsetly


 
  
 The Valhalla is actually quite a bit different.    The Vali is a hybrid, where the Valhalla is all tube.  As such, it really prefers higher impedance cans.   Also, the newer Valhallas do allow tube rolling.
  
 This is a Vali thread, so I don't want to stray too far off of the thread subject, but as a way to get into tube rolling, the Starlight/Sunrise/Horizon/Ember amps are nice,  too.  They are flexible with tube support and only require rolling a single tube rather than a pair.  I believe Starlight can also roll op amps.
  
 Staying within the Schiit family, though... With the right pairing of cans, the Valhalla would be a good step, as would the Lyr.


----------



## JoeKickass

Got my HD 558's! I did the foam mod and noticed them open up a bit, but to be honest they're the best headphones I've heard so it's hard to notice if the mod helped any... they already sounded great! I'm hearing things I never knew were there, and re-hearing parts that I thought I knew! 
  
 But the Vali just laughs at them: I never have to turn the volume past 12, bass is powerful, and compared to straight out of the DAC there is a noticeable increase in dynamic clarity, instruments sound more "separate" and clear if that makes any sense. 
  
 I bet the Vali would pair great with ortho's like the he-400, but these hd 558's are sooo comfortable for long sessions


----------



## hmorneau

mshenay said:


> Oh I know, I'm just in that mood
> 
> whining about the thread de railing is still derailing
> 
> ehm that said, I'm recommending the Vali to DT 880 owners... let's hope I don't end up with my foot in my mouth, however I've heard a number of ppl have positive results already! Let's ope I can confrim it


 
 Yes, I'm currently listening to the Vali with the DT880. I prefer the sound of the DT880 then the T1 on the Vali.
  
 Personally I think the sound stage of the Vali is very small, so when I plug the T1 the sound stage doesn't become bigger. So basically the sound stage of the Vali is on par with what the DT880 can deliver.
  
 Also, the DT880 600ohm are not really sensitive, so you won't have much problem with the micro dynamics.
  
 I personally think the Vali is a bit on the warm side and the DT880 is not, so the Vali make the DT880 sound a bit warmer which is a good thing, In fact it's the first time I'm enjoying those DT880. On the treble, the Vali is a bit recessed (dark sounding), and the DT880 is a bright headphone, so they match very well. You don't get any sibilance, I just listened to Melody Gardot (Our love is easy) to make sure, and I must say it's impressive.
  
 With the T1, the bass sound uncontrolled. With some track (like those with string) the T1 sound better then DT880 on the Vali, but overall I think the DT880 do a better job. 
  
 For the DAC thing, I have the chance of having a good dac (I'm the type who buy once, it's cheaper in the long run). That being said, I'm pretty sure having a good DAC is important, when I plugged my Vali in my cellphone it was terrible 
  
 Let me know what you think of the Vali with your DT880 when you get it.


----------



## TheGame

Last few listening sessions I have had with the Vali and HD 650's I have noticed the microphonics much more. The first few days I listened to the Vali, there was the initial microphonics at start up but that was it. Now I have noticed a similar issue in which @rreifsn had with his vali http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1995#post_10045197 except the ringing I get is in the left channel. After about 40 minutes, I'll get a constant ringing sound in the left channel, it is very low but you can notice it in a very silent part of a track or if you press stop on your source. Is this supposed to be normal? As the Vali is my first amp with tubes I am not sure how tube amps are supposed to behave in regards to microphonics other than what I have read in this thread. I found the only way to fix the constant ringing in the left channel is to turn off the Vali for about a minute, then turn it back on again. That seems to fix the issue until the next listening session and it starts over.


----------



## Robobandit

thegame said:


> Last few listening sessions I have had with the Vali and HD 650's I have noticed the microphonics much more. The first few days I listened to the Vali, there was the initial microphonics at start up but that was it. Now I have noticed a similar issue in which @rreifsn had with his vali http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1995#post_10045197 except the ringing I get is in the left channel. After about 40 minutes, I'll get a constant ringing sound in the left channel, it is very low but you can notice it in a very silent part of a track or if you press stop on your source. Is this supposed to be normal? As the Vali is my first amp with tubes I am not sure how tube amps are supposed to behave in regards to microphonics other than what I have read in this thread. I found the only way to fix the constant ringing in the left channel is to turn off the Vali for about a minute, then turn it back on again. That seems to fix the issue until the next listening session and it starts over.


 
 Mine doesn't have this problem.
  
 I'd say it's not normal.


----------



## MickeyVee

Let me get one thing off my chest before I get into my story.. Purrin, I hate you!!
  
 I spent the last two hours auditioning the Arcam irDAC and the Rega DAC with the Vali and HD800 (dind't want to take my Woo in)..
  
 The Arcam DAC from a technology perspective is stunning.  iPad direct connectivity and control with the remote.. Check.  Nice option.  Same with USB connectivity to my MacBook Air.  It sounded really, really nice, lots of air and and detail but in the end, a little thin for me. From memory, maybe just a hair better than the Bifrost but with with less weight.  I asked if it was broken in and yes it was.
  
 Now, the Rega DAC and Vali.  First, I haven't been a big fan from a technology perspective especially in its USB implementation but what the heck, I tried it anyway.  Holy cr@p, wow!! First of all, I'm not a detail monster and I like a nice rich, full sound with good weight and detail and the Rega delivered that is spades. One of my test tracks is Patricia Barber's Black Magic Woman. Well, it was like having front row seats in a smokey bar enjoying a good single malt and some fabulous music.  It did not have the air and detail of the Arcam, though it did have it in sufficient quantity.  It just blew me away.  Placement of the instruments were precise and focused.  Nothing lacking for me other that giving up a little soundstage.  If you're a precision detail monster, forget the Rega. 
  
 The store was not busy so the owner and a few salespeople hand a listen.  All were impressed and asked about the Vali.  Kind of nuts using a $1K DAC and $1.5K headphones with a $119 amp and did the amp deliver in spades.  With the other DAC's, I found I could drive the Vali into distortion but not so with the Rega.. can't figure that one out but OK, I'm good with that. This combo is the absolute best I have heard from the HD800.
  
 I was hoping, almost planning to go in, audition and come out with nothing knowing the Vali and WA7 were good enough for me.  I've been dealing with my sales guy for over a decade, told him the Rega was a little out of my snack bracket (was reconsidering the Bifrsot Uber again) but he came back with a price that was super.  So, now, I have the Rega DAC on order and should have it in a few days.
  
 So, Purrnin, your right (and I really don't hate you), the Vali does scale up incredibly with a decent DAC and I have found one that suits my listening style.  I'm definitely a tube guy.  Also can't wait to hear it with the WA7. This setup may be my end game.
  
 Jason & Schiit crew.. you pulled off a little marvel here.
  
 YMMV - opinions may vary based on source and headphones.


----------



## CEE TEE

Okay, someone inspired me to pop the lid off too and my tubes were also at about a 45 degree angle and no longer stuck to the self-adhesive tube-damping foam pads.

Possibly the amp's heat, or not enough time/pressure to adhere the tubes well, or shipping impact and vibration detached the tubes from the pads. I took shots but am without ability to post them from phone. Will post later. I can't recommend that anyone remove the four top screws and gently press the tubes against the pads with something other than their oily finger...but that is what I did and will check to see if the microphonics are greatly reduced. (I keep looking at the little red board with sharp-looking tubes on it though.)


----------



## Robobandit

cee tee said:


> Okay, someone inspired me to pop the lid off too and my tubes were also at about a 45 degree angle and no longer stuck to the self-adhesive tube-damping foam pads.
> 
> Possibly the amp's heat, or not enough time/pressure to adhere the tubes well, or shipping impact and vibration detached the tubes from the pads. I took shots but am without ability to post them from phone. Will post later. I can't recommend that anyone remove the four top screws and gently press the tubes against the pads with something other than their oily finger...but that is what I did and will check to see if the microphonics are greatly reduced. (I keep looking at the little red board with sharp-looking tubes on it though.)


 
  
 Were you having problems with ringing in a particular channel that made you decide to open it?
  
 Will be interested to hear about your results!


----------



## eccom

Looking in trough the top, it does indeed seem like mine does have the left tube attached and the right at an angle. That is consistent with having ringing in the right but not the left channel.


----------



## Redcarmoose

quovadis123 said:


> I assume VALI is the Vahalla from Schiit?



 




Get your schiit together.


----------



## Barry S

I just checked and both of the tubes in my Vali have erections. It seems like my microphonics performance is middle of the pack, but I'm super careful when I plug in or change the volume.  Not sure if it's worth pushing the tubes down.


----------



## tdockweiler

^ let the tubes rest a bit and that goes away


----------



## Barry S

tdockweiler said:


> ^ let the tubes rest a bit and that goes away


 

 I'm playing some baseball broadcasts through them to see if that helps.


----------



## jbarrentine

joekickass said:


> Got my HD 558's!
> But the Vali just laughs at them: I never have to turn the volume past 12


 
  
 o_O  I never turn my 598 past 8. You must be blowing things out at 12.


----------



## SMG52

barry s said:


> I just checked and both of the tubes in my Vali have erections.


 
 What music are you playing?


----------



## Makiah S

hmorneau said:


> Yes, I'm currently listening to the Vali with the DT880. I prefer the sound of the DT880 then the T1 on the Vali.
> 
> Personally I think the sound stage of the Vali is very small, so when I plug the T1 the sound stage doesn't become bigger. So basically the sound stage of the Vali is on par with what the DT880 can deliver.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh I will, and honestly I have no desire to listen to the Vali with my DT 880, the Balnced DT 880 with the NF 10ES2 is well it's most epic, that said I really got the Vali for my W1000x, which after modding really needs a tube to help retain it's intimacy! THe mod REALLY opened up teh sound stage of the W1000x, but it's still very intimate, and the details on it are fantastic. But I miss a little of the warmth from my old M Stage and my oDac. SO the NFB's super detailed DAC+ the Vali should make for an very happy w1000x, which isn't UBER sensitive so let's hope the noise isn;t an issue 
  
 Going back to the W1000x. I do plan on getting them balanced, but before I do that I wanted to hear the Vali first. Plus I want to see if I really do like Tube for the W1000x, most of the issues I have with my SE NFB are that it's a touch to dry for the alrady very sterile w1000x. My w1000x really SHINES on my HM801 and Pb1, so I assume the Vali should add that extra touch of warmth and wetness that the HM801 imparts through it's PCM dac 
  
 That said, being a HUGE dt 880 fan, and seeing the vali as really the FIRST WORTHY Hybrid tube for the DT 880 [I tried INdeed G3, I tried a Hand BUilt Millet Hybrid, both where nice but both fell apart in a few months] I'm egar to see how the Vali performs with the DT 880,  simply so that I can recommended to other users :3, plus I just got an offic job, so I kinda need a work Set up, and having both open and closed cans at work would be a good idea SO hence the vali, which will work nicely for the dt 880 and w1000x I think
  
 Non the less impressions to follow shortly


----------



## CEE TEE

Okay, only played with it a bit so far but the lower pitched ringing is *definitely reduced a LOT*.  There is still some high-pitched ringing with certain impacts but it is much better now and subsides or with my hand palming the unit from the top it can disappear even faster.  Plugging in phones no longer causes "self-sustaining" ringing and is much better.  Brushing against/hitting the power switch or catching the back corners seem to be the worst offenders now.
  
 Other good news is that I am purposefully typing on a glass desk right next to the Vali with just the rubber feet.  <Slight> ringing if I hit very hard but not even noticeable with music on.  Turning volume still causes some slight ringing.  *Much better now, good times...*
  



  
 Here is after re-affixing it to the foam pads:


----------



## JoeKickass

cee tee said:


> Okay, only played with it a bit so far but the lower pitched ringing is *definitely reduced a LOT*.  There is still some high-pitched ringing with certain impacts but it is much better now and subsides or with my hand palming the unit from the top it can disappear even faster...
> 
> Other good news is that I am purposefully typing on a glass desk right next to the Vali with just the rubber feet.  <Slight> ringing if I hit very hard but not even noticeable with music on.  Turning volume still causes some slight ringing.  *Much better now, good times...*


 
  
 Yup, I had one erect one flat lol, but I also noticed it helped reduce microphonics, glad to get confirmation on this easy fix!
  


jbarrentine said:


> o_O  I never turn my 598 past 8. You must be blowing things out at 12.


 
 Yeah I only turned it that high to try to hear detail in the quiet bits, normal listening is 8 to 9 o'clock for me


----------



## Barry S

hmorneau said:


> ...I'm currently listening to the Vali with the DT880....
> 
> ...On the treble, the Vali is a bit recessed (dark sounding), and the DT880 is a bright headphone, so they match very well...


 
  
 That's an interesting observation because with the HD650s, the treble isn't recessed at all. In fact, it's some of the best treble I've heard from them--some nice sparkle and good definition. *The Vali is the most neutral amp I've heard from Schiit*, including the Mjolnir, Lyr, and Magni. It does have a (mild) tube character, but it's not really warmth. The Lyr is warm and the Vali is not a mini-Lyr by any stretch. It may be the Vali's neutrality that makes it difficult to predict how it's going to behave with any given DAC/headphone combination. The Lyr is going to be warm with just about any headphone and the Mjolnir is going to be a little bright. The Vali though, not very predictable (other than the intimate soundstage).


----------



## Makiah S

cee tee said:


> Okay, only played with it a bit so far but the lower pitched ringing is *definitely reduced a LOT*.  There is still some high-pitched ringing with certain impacts but it is much better now and subsides or with my hand palming the unit from the top it can disappear even faster.  Plugging in phones no longer causes "self-sustaining" ringing and is much better.  Brushing against/hitting the power switch or catching the back corners seem to be the worst offenders now.
> 
> Other good news is that I am purposefully typing on a glass desk right next to the Vali with just the rubber feet.  <Slight> ringing if I hit very hard but not even noticeable with music on.  Turning volume still causes some slight ringing.  *Much better now, good times...*
> 
> ...


 
 So what exactly did you do? Push the tube straight down, and lay it atop a foam pad. How did you get the Tube to stay on top of the foam pad with out going erect again!


----------



## tdockweiler

barry s said:


> That's an interesting observation because with the HD650s, the treble isn't recessed at all. In fact, it's some of the best treble I've heard from them--some nice sparkle and good definition. *The Vali is the most neutral amp I've heard from Schiit*, including the Mjolnir, Lyr, and Magni. It does have a (mild) tube character, but it's not really warmth. The Lyr is warm and the Vali is not a mini-Lyr by any stretch. It may be the Vali's neutrality that makes it difficult to predict how it's going to behave with any given DAC/headphone combination. The Lyr is going to be warm with just about any headphone and the Mjolnir is going to be a little bright. The Vali though, not very predictable (other than the intimate soundstage).


 
  
 That's my experience as well (bolded part), but only with my two K400s and the Q701. I didn't get the same results as you with the HD-650 and just want to forget that experience. Not sure what was going on.
 So far i've only tried the Magni and Asgard 1 and 2. Asgard 1 I had for over a year. Magni sounded close to being dead neutral, but O2 was slightly closer. Vali/Micro with my AKGs are even one step further.
  
 I remember saying the Vali sounded almost identical to how my other amp sounded and that thing is pretty close to how an O2 sounds. The neutrality of the Vali (with the correct headphones) isn't like an O2 though, but has slightly fuller mids and smoother treble. You can easily get the Vali to change it's tune with different tracks.
  
 When I heard the Q701 + Vali the soundstage also seemed fine. I was enjoying my music and not really analyzing soundstage width and depth at the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Q701 + Vali sounded good on every source I had too!
  
 BTW despite what some say, the Vali with the AKGs didn't add warm/coloration to the sound. It is slightly fuller/smoother than say how it is from an O2, but still mostly uncolored.


----------



## purrin

mickeyvee said:


> Let me get one thing off my chest before I get into my story.. Purrin, I hate you!!


 
  
 Well, that makes me pretty happy. I've sort of keep tabs on people's rigs and it's nice to see you "graduate" up to the HD800. This is  just the beginning. The HD800s keep scaling up and up and up. The Vali and WA7 are just starter amps. There's stuff out there which will leave them in the dust. As you now have discovered, the internal DAC in the WA7 isn't all that great.


----------



## Makiah S

SO EXCITED FOR THE VALI
  
 that said, this mircophonic thing might get to me... my HE 400 cable was LOUD but I got over it, how ever... the bend the tubes down and place em on foam seems smart... how did you guys keep the tubes down on the Foam


----------



## purrin

quovadis123 said:


> Hi guys
> I just returned a Schiit Magni, and hifiman 400 headphones.
> The combination was not good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hard to offer advice without additional information. What did you not like about Magni with HE400? Too bright? To sterile? If so then you may like the Vali hybrid amp which has smoother treble and is warmer.
  
 DO NOT USE Vahalla with low impedance cans like orthos. The Vahalla output impedance is almost as high if not higher. It will sound bad. I have tried it for fun just to see. Just a bad idea and even Schiit recommends against this on their website.


----------



## Makiah S

... here's to hoping the Vali isn't too mirco phonic with my desk and what not


----------



## Barry S

There must be some springiness to the tube leads causing them pop the tubes back up. The adhesive on the foam pad either fails from the heat of the tube, or isn't strong enough to begin with.  It's likely that the tubes will just pop back up after sticking them down. Schiit needs to find a better method of damping the tubes, but in the meantime, it would be nice to find a better adhesive that's permanent.


----------



## Makiah S

barry s said:


> There must be some springiness to the tube leads causing them pop the tubes back up. The adhesive on the foam pad either fails from the heat of the tube, or isn't strong enough to begin with.  It's likely that the tubes will just pop back up after sticking them down. Schiit needs to find a better method of damping the tubes, but in the meantime, it would be nice to find a better adhesive that's permanent.


 
 True, let's hope they will figure a way to dampen them, and offer us a in expenive upgrade service.


----------



## Solarium

What's the general consensus on the Vali with HD650 (versus Magni)?


----------



## CEE TEE

mshenay said:


> So what exactly did you do? Push the tube straight down, and lay it atop a foam pad. How did you get the Tube to stay on top of the foam pad with out going erect again!


 
 Yes, I held the tube with a "cautious" amount of pressure to try to adhere the tube to the double-sided adhesive foam. I carefully used the end of the screwdriver to do this and never touched the tube directly.  I also held it for a little bit to try and create a better seal.  If I find the microphonics increase again, I'll take it from there but good so far!


----------



## Makiah S

cee tee said:


> Yes, I held the tube with a "cautious" amount of pressure to try to adhere the tube to the double-sided adhesive foam. I carefully used the end of the screwdriver to do this and never touched the tube directly.  I also held it for a little bit to try and create a better seal.  If I find the microphonics increase again, I'll take it from there but good so far!


 
 so a very small screw driver? and double sided adhesive foam ... u put the foam right down onto the PCB board
  
 I might try a paper blending pencil I have, just to be extra safe. the things in package so no oil on it, and the paper shouldn't damage teh glass 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## lextek

Curious what Schiit has to say about securing the tubes.


----------



## bearFNF

mshenay said:


> so a very small screw driver? and double sided adhesive foam ... u put the foam right down onto the PCB board
> 
> I might try a paper blending pencil I have, just to be extra safe. the things in package so no oil on it, and the paper shouldn't damage teh glass
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I have not looked in mine yet but I would suspect that the foam is already there, so you don't need to but it in just press the tubes back down onto it.
  
 Also, use the handle of the screw driver not the point.  Or get a lint free towel (like a lens cleaning cloth).
 The types of adhesives used in application like this are usually called "PSA" (pressure sensitive adhesives). Which, like the name implies, requires pressure of sufficient force to create the lasting bond. I would think they would have used mid or high temp adhesive for this application.  I may replace it with some 3M VHB tape I have use in the past for PCB applications, good and strong stuff and can handle high temps. Mine has some ringing but not too bad, so I may open it up in a week or so to check it out.
  
 Oh, and they the Vali is sounding very nice with my HD800 from my uberfrost.
 Its sounds even better with the Asgard 2 as pre-amp - lots of bass.  A little sparkle up top but not bad.
  
 The Taboo MKIII I compared it too has better balanced sound and is smother, but the Vali is scary close 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 I think the Vali has more weight in the bass area.
  
 One more thing: @CEE TEE did you check to see if the tubes were standing so tall that they could have contacted the cover? Front eh pics it looks pretty close, but cant tell for sure.


----------



## gikigill

Maybe a tiny cage to secure the tubes would be a idea as it would prevent them from lifting upwards.


----------



## bearFNF

gikigill said:


> Maybe a tiny cage to secure the tubes would be a idea as it would prevent them from lifting upwards.


 

 Except the cage may dampen the tubes and change the sound? dunno???


----------



## CEE TEE

Mshenay:  There is already foam in place on the PCB from the factory.  
 Using a thin phillips head screwdriver, I removed four screws and "re-secured" both tubes against the sticky foam.
 The only tricky part is paying attention to the LED bulb and aligning it to the hole while putting the faceplate/top back on.
  
 bearFNF:  I don't think the tubes quite reached the top of the case...but I was not paying close enough attention to know for sure.  
 From top view, the one on the left looks pretty close in pics.  
  
 I just spent a lot of time doing production today, listening while on the computer and the Vali is MUCH better now!


----------



## olor1n

I can see a toob in a state of arousal through the peep-holes. Not fully erect, but certainly at attention. No squeals when bumped hard. Just a brief, barely audible moan when the knob is turned. No need to screw for now.


----------



## FlySweep

olor1n said:


> I can see a toob in a state of arousal through the peep-holes. Not fully erect, but certainly at attention. No squeals when bumped hard. Just a brief, barely audible moan when the knob is turned. No need to screw for now.


----------



## x838nwy

I'm new to tubes, but it appears that the legs of the tubes were not bent enough to begin with. As such the foam/adhesive were trying to hold to tubes in place again the spring back force from the tube's legs. It's going to be a constant tension and with the heat from the tubes, it may be just a matter of time before the adhesive gives up and the tubes would spring back up.
  
 [for those not mechanically inclined: when a piece of metal is deformed (bent) it goes through a elastic phase and then plastic. When unloaded, the elastic deformation returns to the initial state, the plastic remains permanent. So once you 'let go', it never really stays that way exactly. If you want it to be in a certain shape, there's a certain amount of over-bending required. I suspect Schiit just pushed the tubes till they lay flat on the board. The remaining 'spring back' is what's working against the adhesive.] 
  
 A solution could be just to bend the legs. Would that damage the tubes?
  
 Also, I'm a little worried about how the foam would fare being under all that heat for hours and hours. Perhaps some kind of rings made from PTFE, secured to the board might be a solution?


----------



## AxelCloris

Peeking through the heat vents on top of my unit I notice that my tubes are also elevated at a 45° angle. I'm going to assume that this is pretty consistent throughout the units that have already shipped. I have unit number 000121. I'm curious to know if this is something Schiit encountered during their R&D and found it to be a non-issue. I had the amp running non-stop for more than a day; plenty of time for the tubes to heat up enough to break the adhesion.


----------



## gikigill

I was about to order the Vali but will wait until they sort it out. Not too handy with a screwdriver so waiting and watching.


----------



## bigbenrfan99

I am looking into possibly getting a Vali for my DT 880 250 ohm, but I have a few questions.  Is there any problem with using the Hifimediy Sabre DAC with the Vali?  I already have the 3.5 mm to RCA cable that I would need, but I am wondering if I would be losing something in comparison to using a DAC with an RCA output.  If anyone has thoughts on this, how does the Vali compare to the slightly cheaper Bravo Audio Ocean and the somewhat more expensive Little Dot MK II?


----------



## hans030390

purrin said:


> DO NOT USE Vahalla with low impedance cans like orthos. The Vahalla output impedance is almost as high if not higher. It will sound bad. I have tried it for fun just to see. Just a bad idea and even Schiit recommends against this on their website.


 
  
 Not to get too OT, but this has always confused me. As of late, I thought the output impedance on amps didn't matter so much with orthos, since most have a flat impedance curve. At least, that was what I was told when I asked why a vintage receiver with a super high output impedance still drives orthos well...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Regarding the tube foam--actually, heat won't hurt it--it's rated to 65 degrees C continuous.
  
 I suspect what's happening with the loose tubes is cold weather. During shipping, if it gets cold, the adhesive gets less effective, and might come unstuck. I've talked to the board house already and all production is now shipped with bent, strain-relieved tube leads to help eliminate the problem.
  
 And--if you choose to re-stick them, don't worry about touching the tubes. They run at room temperature. The only parts that get hot are the large transistors for the Class AB output stage. We push the tubes down, hard, by hand, during production.


----------



## Robobandit

Thanks for the response, Jason


----------



## CJ_CoCa

jason stoddard said:


> I've talked to the board house already and all production is now shipped with bent, strain-relieved tube leads to help eliminate the problem.


 
 Now I'm wondering if mine is one of those...it was shipped on Thursday/Friday ...
  
 Either way, I'm really excited to pair it up with my incoming HE-400 as well!


----------



## Transformatron

jason stoddard said:


> Regarding the tube foam--actually, heat won't hurt it--it's rated to 65 degrees C continuous.
> 
> I suspect what's happening with the loose tubes is cold weather. During shipping, if it gets cold, the adhesive gets less effective, and might come unstuck. I've talked to the board house already and all production is now shipped with bent, strain-relieved tube leads to help eliminate the problem.
> 
> And--if you choose to re-stick them, don't worry about touching the tubes. They run at room temperature. The only parts that get hot are the large transistors for the Class AB output stage. We push the tubes down, hard, by hand, during production.



This won't affect the warranty right?


----------



## tdockweiler

transformatron said:


> This won't affect the warranty right?


 
  
 Probably will void the warranty if you choose to fix it yourself. That is unless Schiit authorizes it, which probably won't happen.


----------



## TheGame

transformatron said:


> This won't affect the warranty right?


 

 Yes I am wondering this too. Since I have the constant ringing in the left channel I suspect one or both tubes has come loose from the pads, but I am reluctant to open the unit fearing that it will void the warranty, even though it seems like a pretty easy fix. As to what Jason from Schiit said about the cold, to me makes perfect sense. When I received my Vali, it was very cold, I actually waited for the unit to warm up to room temperature before turning it on the first time.
  
 If pushing the tube back on the foam carefully with a little pressure will fix the issue then I would much rather do that then have to contact Schiit and bother them with something I could easily fix myself, however I do not want to do anything if it will void the warranty.
  
_*Edit: *I used an LED flashlight to look inside the top of the Vali through the holes and I can see the left tube is definitely up off of the foam, the tube on the right looks like it still may be attached to the foam, but it is difficult to get a good look at it without having to open the unit, which I am afraid to do._


----------



## lostinthesauce

Has anybody paired the Vali with Audio Technica's AD line yet?


----------



## BournePerfect

Poor match on paper-but worth a shot. Someone here keeps posting about their W1000x, maybe search out those posts.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## lostinthesauce

bourneperfect said:


> Poor match on paper-but worth a shot. Someone here keeps posting about their W1000x, maybe search out those posts.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Thanks for the feed back; would there be another tube'd amp that you'd recommend for the AD900X?


----------



## Maxvla

I would assume since Jason is telling you to do it, if it is needed, that there won't be any warranty repercussions. Correct me if I'm wrong, though, Jason.


----------



## heart banger-97

Hey guys

I need some technical information. I'm not so aware of electronic science so keep calm if my question isn't fault free.

I know that tubes need to reach an optimum voltage to work their best, so what is the optimum Impedance for using with Vali?

I realy appreciate any advice (theoretical or practical) that you guys can give me.


----------



## K.T.

I used to use a leather punch to make small dots out of this vibration damping material:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/damping_soundcoat.html

I would place them on primarily around circuit boards. Other times I would use larger strips or sheets inside sheet metal chassis. 

Sometimes there was no change to the sound; sometimes the sound changed to my liking, and sometimes it was worse. Hard to say until you've messed around a bit.

Since the tubes run at room temperature, I don't see any harm in trying something like this on the glass envelope of the tubes. Again, it's unpredictable how it will affect the sound. Since these tubes are extremely sensitive to vibration, I would think it would have some effect, whether for better or worse. 

I've long since run out of this stuff, but I'm tempted to get more and try it.


----------



## purrin

hans030390 said:


> Not to get too OT, but this has always confused me. As of late, I thought the output impedance on amps didn't matter so much with orthos, since most have a flat impedance curve. At least, that was what I was told when I asked why a vintage receiver with a super high output impedance still drives orthos well...


 
  
 Think current delivery / power transfer. Tubes are high voltage and low current devices. Think water spraying from thin pipe with high pressure. Low Z orthos need current. Think huge diameter pipe receptacle which doesn't expect a lot of pressure.
  
 Most tube amps use a transformer which lowers the voltage and trades that voltage for current. In other words, the transformer a gizmo which converts the the thin pipe to a thicker pipe. Vahalla is an OTL, so no such luck. It's like using a Water Pik to clean your bathtub, when buckets of water dumped on it are more effective.
  
 As for why vintage receivers work well I have no idea. I've only used low Z power amps. It's possible the receivers just have that much more power to be able to push through that small pipe (resistor at phono stage).


----------



## Makiah S

bourneperfect said:


> Poor match on paper-but worth a shot. Someone here keeps posting about their W1000x, maybe search out those posts.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
  


jason stoddard said:


> Regarding the tube foam--actually, heat won't hurt it--it's rated to 65 degrees C continuous.
> 
> I suspect what's happening with the loose tubes is cold weather. During shipping, if it gets cold, the adhesive gets less effective, and might come unstuck. I've talked to the board house already and all production is now shipped with bent, strain-relieved tube leads to help eliminate the problem.
> 
> And--if you choose to re-stick them, don't worry about touching the tubes. They run at room temperature. The only parts that get hot are the large transistors for the Class AB output stage. We push the tubes down, hard, by hand, during production.


 
 >.> I bought mine 2 days ago I hope it got this treatment
  
 and I have the w1000x, on paper the match isn't ideal. 42ohms on my headphone 6.5out on the vali for about 1/6 ratio... not ideal but not horrific. Ppl seems to have success with GRados so its worth a shot. That and I'm looking into a 75ohm impedance adapter from a cable building buddy of mine... I trust his judgment as he's selling me his spar cable, as he owns 2
  
 I assume my Thursday my Vali might be here, I got a shipment email I think the Friday I got it [maybe saturday] that it was shipped. With 3Day shipment from usps. ALthough mine may sit in the cold for a day depending on who's home to get the package
  
 still great to hear you guys addressed the issue in house! Hopeing your solution works better than expected


----------



## SMG52

I contacted Herbie's Audio Lab about the tube microphonics issues, and here is his response in case anyone would like to give these a try:
  

```
All of our Schiit Vali customers that I know of use a HAL-O Mini Jr. damping instrument on each of the tubes. Either titanium or PTFE; both work equally well; with the titanium version which is a little more compact you need to be careful that you don't short out any circuitry (the PTFE version is non-conductive). [url=http://herbiesaudiolab.net/jr.htm#mini]http://herbiesaudiolab.net/jr.htm#mini[/url] Vacuum tubes are not the only internal parts susceptible to microphonics--virtually every electronic part, especially the capacitors, are subject to microphonics and micro-vibrational distortion. Upgrading to four Herbie's Baby Booties in place of the little stock feet and placing a SuperSonic Stabilizer on top will address micro-vibration with the component as a whole, in addition to damping just the tubes, and is recommended to bring out more of the inherent potential of the Schiit headphone amp. [url=http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm]http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm[/url] [url=http://herbiesaudiolab.net/stable.htm]http://herbiesaudiolab.net/stable.htm[/url] As for a do-it-yourself solution to damping these tubes, placing a bead of Permatex Blue RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (available at auto parts stores) should help some, perhaps considerably, and will not harm the tubes at all. Thanks for the inquiry. Best regards, Steve Herbelin Herbie's Audio Lab
```


----------



## Makiah S

smg52 said:


> I contacted Herbie's Audio Lab about the tube microphonics issues, and here is his response in case anyone would like to give these a try:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 
 I might try the Halo Jrs and the Bootie feet... I will admit listening to the feed back... I did giggle a little. That said, for $5 for the feet. and what about $30 for a set of those Halo things... not a big deal imo.
  
 Might order the Feet first if I have any issues. my Audio GD unit is pretty resistant to mircophonics. Placing my Vali a top of it should stablize it pretty nicely, but again $5 isn't a big investment if I get any issues
  
 That said, this is a tube and I've always experinced very minimal noise and mircophonics with both of my past hybrid tubes, so as always I'll shoot out some feed back when the unit arrives, and if and when I get the Feet or the Halo things


----------



## Trogdor

mshenay said:


> I might try the Halo Jrs and the Bootie feet... I will admit listening to the feed back... I did giggle a little. That said, for $5 for the feet. and what about $30 for a set of those Halo things... not a big deal imo.
> 
> Might order the Feet first if I have any issues. my Audio GD unit is pretty resistant to mircophonics. Placing my Vali a top of it should stablize it pretty nicely, but again $5 isn't a big investment if I get any issues
> 
> That said, this is a tube and I've always experinced very minimal noise and mircophonics with both of my past hybrid tubes, so as always I'll shoot out some feed back when the unit arrives, and if and when I get the Feet or the Halo things






:rolleyes:


----------



## Makiah S

trogdor said:


>


 
 I mean those Mini Halo things for the Tubes inside. Pff I'm still useing cheapo Mono Price Coaxial cables atm lol, I've never had any issues with any mircophonics from any of the Mini Price Cables I've gotten... and I've gotten a LOT... need tu update my profile actually


----------



## SMG52

Just to mention, Herbie's Audio Lab has a pretty generous return policy, so minimal risk. (Always a good thing!)


----------



## ssrock64

mshenay said:


> I mean those Mini Halo things for the Tubes inside. Pff I'm still useing cheapo Mono Price Coaxial cables atm lol, I've never had any issues with any mircophonics from any of the Mini Price Cables I've gotten... and I've gotten a LOT... need tu update my profile actually


 
 No shame there. I only have one set of "premium" cables in my entire setup (running between the ODAC and my pre-amp); the rest is just off-brand stuff that I've judged to be thick and quiet enough for audio duty.


----------



## Makiah S

ssrock64 said:


> No shame there. I only have one set of "premium" cables in my entire setup (running between the ODAC and my pre-amp); the rest is just off-brand stuff that I've judged to be thick and quiet enough for audio duty.


 
 I MIGHT invent in some FANCY calbe one day, but as for right now, Mono Price is super thick, super well built and cheap as dirt so I enjoy em. I use em for evetything atm! ANd I've used a lot of cable through the years, non of my Mono Prices have failed me thus far!


----------



## FraGGleR

I'd rate my microphonics issues as below average thus far.  They are there, but nothing too bothersome and certainly manageable.  Just out of curiosity, I looked inside and my right tube was actually still attached to the foam, but the foam had come up from the board.  The left was slightly raised, but still attached.  I pressed both down firmly, and the foam seems to be holding now.  I haven't noticed any real improvement in microphonics.  Probably because the foam had stayed attached to the tube and was damping it as much as it was going to.
  
 Jason, I know that this would void the warranty, but would dropping a little silicone caulk on top of the tubes potentially help with the ringing?  Would it hurt the tubes and their ability to dissipate heat?  I am thinking just a pea-sized drop or a small band around the middle.


----------



## Stapsy

mshenay said:


> I MIGHT invent in some FANCY calbe one day, but as for right now, Mono Price is super thick, super well built and cheap as dirt so I enjoy em. I use em for evetything atm! ANd I've used a lot of cable through the years, non of my Mono Prices have failed me thus far!


 
 Absolutely nothing wrong with Mono Price cables.  You are always going to be better off buying better hardware (DAC, Amp, Headphones) than cables.  Unless you have an uber $5k+ setup I would save that money and put it into the rest of your rig.  I know lots of people with many thousand dollar systems that use Mono Price cables.


----------



## darinf

I looked through the vent holes of my Vali and both tubes have the foam stuck to the tubes, but the foam is not touching the circuit board. Both tubes are almost touching the case, but not. 
  
 I seem to have what I think it pretty bad microphonics.
  
 Any word on whether opening the Vali to push down the tubes will void the warranty?
  
 I think it's a tough call for Schiit since they don't want to have to deal with a problems as a result of users opening the case and breaking something, but they also don't want people sending back their units just to stick the tubes back down.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

transformatron said:


> This won't affect the warranty right?


 
 Nope, won't affect the warranty at all. I wouldn't have suggested it if it would. Sorry for the trouble!


----------



## SMG52

darinf said:


> I looked through the vent holes of my Vali and both tubes have the foam stuck to the tubes, but the foam is not touching the circuit board. Both tubes are almost touching the case, but not.
> 
> I seem to have what I think it pretty bad microphonics.
> 
> ...


 
 I was told by Nick T. (tech at Schiit) via an email moments ago that opening the amp and pushing the tubes back down onto the foam will not void the warranty.


----------



## Makiah S

smg52 said:


> I was told by Nick T. (tech at Schiit) via an email moments ago that opening the amp and pushing the tubes back down onto the foam will not void the warranty.


 
 awesome good to know  know I just have to find my super duper tiny Screw drivers. Hopeing the new Adhesive they are trying will work... if not I might try those little Booties. Jason, if we wind up buying those Mini Halo things sold at Helio AUdio [for cables but apprently for Mini tubes as well] assuming ofc we don't FORCE them on there, would that void the warrenty as well? ANd ofc, if you guys have an upgrade in plan for the future, like you did for the dacs. I for one would be happy to wait for an upgrade of sorts.
  
 Ethier way still excited to get mine... got ahold of my buddy who's at my old place. Hopefully he won't let the tube sit in our cold mail box to long!


----------



## DaveUpton

flguy said:


> Interesting -nice to hear of another promising DAC. Are you using it with or without the separate power supply?


 
 I am using the uPower with it, yes and a KingRex uCraft USB cable. Not sure how much of that affects things, but that's the current setup.


----------



## Barry S

I popped my Vali open and carefully pressed down both tubes--it took less than 5 minutes.
  
 My advices:
  
 Use a small phillips screwdriver and put the screws in a small cup.
  
*Gently *remove the chassis cover by pulling it straight forward.
  
 Press down the tubes with a microfiber or other clean cloth.
  
 Gently replace chassis cover by moving it straight forward onto chassis--keep your eye on the power led to make sure it comes back through the hole.
  
 Replace screws.


----------



## lord_tris

VALI yay next to the Magni.


----------



## ssrock64

mshenay said:


> I MIGHT invent in some FANCY calbe one day, but as for right now, Mono Price is super thick, super well built and cheap as dirt so I enjoy em. I use em for evetything atm! ANd I've used a lot of cable through the years, non of my Mono Prices have failed me thus far!


 


stapsy said:


> Absolutely nothing wrong with Mono Price cables.


 
 A lot of small-shop manufacturers ship their products with Monoprice cables. My previously-mentioned ODAC came with a USB to mini-USB from them.


----------



## tdockweiler

Wonder if there is something people can use to be sure the tubes don't pop back out again? Or is the foam still sticky enough?
 Something that won't catch on fire (I know the tubes are not hot)?
 Maybe a dot of Silicone Door/Window sealant? Most of that is rated up to 400F
  
 It's pretty cool that Schiit allows this since I know opening amps normally voids a warranty.


----------



## 4nradio

tdockweiler said:


> Wonder if there is something people can use to be sure the tubes don't pop back out again? Or is the foam still sticky enough?
> Something that won't catch on fire (I know the tubes are not hot)?
> Maybe a dot of Silicone Door/Window sealant? Most of that is rated up to 400F
> 
> It's pretty cool that Schiit allows this since I know opening amps normally voids a warranty.


 
 That sounds like a good idea to me. Jason explained in an earlier post that the tubes are basically at room temperature; it's the solid state amp parts that are hotter.
  
 A blob of the silicone that fully surrounds the tip of the tube and is stuck to the PCB could provide enough stability or restriction to keep the tube from rising off the sticky foam again over time.


----------



## stratocaster

Just press down the tubes and don't wet your pants. This is a >$100 device, not a $10000 diva. The Vali can take it.


----------



## lord_tris

I am sorry but all you people that complain about this ringing from vibrations...Really you can barely hear it and its gone in seconds.  I had to literately tap on it hard AF to get it to ring and it was gone in 2-3 secs... And when I had unplugged the headphone and plugged them right back in it happened was gone in 2-3 secs... I guess you have to have something to complain about. LOL.  And I just got it in the mail today about 40 mins ago. Since it was like 28 degrees outside today I turned it on and left it be for about 30 mins before I  started listening. This Amp is excellent sounding with with HD700s I am borrowing. Next to the SPL Phonitor I really liked. In this price range this amp IS some GOOD SCHIIT.


----------



## AxelCloris

lord_tris said:


> I am sorry but all you people that complain about this ringing from vibrations...Really you can barely hear it its gone in secs. I had to literately had to tap on it hard AF to get it to ring and it was going in 2-3 secs... And when I had unplugged the headphone and right back in again 2-3 secs... I guess you have to have something to complain about. LOL. And I just it in the mail today about 40 mins ago. Since it was like 28 degrees outside today I turned it on and left it be for about 30 mins before I just started listening. This Amp is excellent sounding with with HD700s I am borrowing. Next to the SPL Phonitor I really liked. In this price range this amp IS some GOOD SCHIIT.


 
  
 Are your tubes elevated at a 45º angle like mine was, or are yours still properly dampened by remaining attached to the board? That's probably why.


----------



## lord_tris

axelcloris said:


> Are your tubes elevated at a 45º angle like mine was, or are yours still properly dampened by remaining attached to the board? That's probably why.


 
 Could not tell you.. Just plugged it up and let it warm up and now I am enjoying some Dave Matthews. DAMN good This HD700 and Vali Great match up.


----------



## imackler

stratocaster said:


> Just press down the tubes and don't wet your pants. This is a >$100 device, not a $10000 diva. The Vali can take it.


 
  


lord_tris said:


> I am sorry but all you people that complain about this ringing from vibrations...Really you can barely hear it its gone in secs.


 
  
 I had no ringing with my Vali. It's awesome. But... let's be patient guys! Those people with the tubes dislodged hear much more ringing than those who didn't. And for some people, myself included, $131 is a big deal. I can't remember the last time I ordered something costing that much that needed me to open it up and fix it upon arrival. Schiit runs a business (and a good one)...not a charity. Its ok if some people are concerned that they fix their amp and do it the right way; I know i'd be nervous how the best way to push a tube back in would be! It wasn't until someone risked ruining their warranty (which I'm glad they didn't!) and posted pictures that Schiit was even aware that the tubes had come dislodged.
  
 I just don't want to see fellow headfiers teased or dismissed because their product isn't working as Schiit intended or are nervous about fixing it the right way.


----------



## lord_tris

imackler said:


> I just don't want to see fellow headfiers teased or dismissed because their product isn't working as Schiit intended or are nervous about fixing it the right way.


 
  
 Not teasing or dismissing, If it did not sound right send it back. My Magni got the Volume Pot noise, I sent it back and its perfect now. Schiit is an awesome company and Jason will work with you to fix the problem. All I was saying that its not half as bad as others are putting it out to be. Which could deter a future head-fi'er from looking at the amp. Schiit backs the amps 100% so give them a chance to fix it.


----------



## stratocaster

You guys read Jason, right?
  
 Begin quote ---- "Nope, won't affect the warranty at all. I wouldn't have suggested it if it would. Sorry for the trouble!" ---- End quote
  
 End post


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## imackler

lord_tris said:


> Not teasing or dismissing, If it did not sound right send it back. My Magni got the Volume Pot noise, I sent it back and its perfect now. Schiit is an awesome company and Jason will work with you to fix the problem. All I was saying that its not half as bad as others are putting it out to be. Which could deter a future head-fi'er from looking at the amp. Schiit backs the amps 100% so give them a chance to fix it.


 
  
 I agree with all that about Schiit.
  
 But I'm not sure how you would know "its not half as bad as others are putting it out to be"...if your's doesn't have the same problem? If you wanted to take off your top and dislodge the tubes, you might be able to tell people its not bad. But right now, it's like saying "my tire is not flat, so stop you're whining"... That make sense only as long as no one has a flat tire!
  
 I'm with you. Mine works great. But obviously there were two different experiences of the "ringing". Jason just told us the same and told us how to fix it.


----------



## imackler

stratocaster said:


> You guys read Jason, right?
> 
> Begin quote ---- "Nope, won't affect the warranty at all. I wouldn't have suggested it if it would. Sorry for the trouble!" ---- End quote
> 
> End post


 
  
 I know. But the first guy who popped his lid off to find the problem/solution didn't know that because Jason hadn't said it yet 
  
 Edit: And for the record, I love the Vali, love Schiit, love headfi. Over and out.


----------



## Rudiger

Hello,
What about vali and akg k550 ? (And modi) For the moment i use the magni. Thanx !


----------



## K.T.

mshenay said:


> I just have to find my super duper tiny Screw drivers.




So just a tip to those of us opening up the Vali. The screw are on the smallish size, but that doesn't mean you will need a small screwdriver. You can use a large one.

HOWEVER, your screwdriver must have the correct tip profile.

What I mean is, the tip of a Phillips (cross) head screwdriver forms a "V" shape, from the tip to the shoulders. You will need to have the correct angle or the screwdriver won't grab the screw properly. When that happens, the tip can slip out and you can strip the screw head. Of course, that deforms the metal, and the next time you try to screw, there's no material for the screwdriver to grab onto.

When you have the correct tip profile, the screwdriver will fully and firmly seat into the screw head and fully engage with the internal surfaces. 

In the case of a large screwdriver (with the correct tip profile), you'll only be using a tiny bit of the tip, but it will seat fully and correctly into the screw. That is the key thing.

Also, you will want to keep fairly firm downward pressure whether you are closing or opening the screw. It seems counter intuitive when you're taking out a screw, but that downward pressure is necessary to keep the screwdriver firmly seated in the screw. Too little pressure and the torque will cause the screwdriver to slip out of the screw head, possibly stripping the metal.

Just some tips (pun incidental).

Btw, the most common tip profile is a #2. The screws on the Vali use a finer/steeper tip profile. I don't recall what is is, but you probably shouldn't use a standard screwdriver from a tool kit. That will probably be a #2, which is too big.

Also, I tried to use one of those smallish jeweler screwdrivers to start with. I had one with the correct tip profile, and big enough to fill the entire screw head, but those pencil thin handles didn't give enough torque to undo the screws. The screws come fairly tight from the factory. 

Better to use a screwdriver with the correct tip profile and a normal sized handle.


----------



## Stapsy

redcarmoose said:


>


 
  
 I would say it is the Head-Fi Amp of the Year...it is that good


----------



## K.T.

lord_tris said:


> I am sorry but all you people that complain about this ringing from vibrations...Really you can barely hear it and its gone in seconds.  I had to literately tap on it hard AF to get it to ring and it was gone in 2-3 secs... And when I had unplugged the headphone and plugged them right back in it happened was gone in 2-3 secs... I guess you have to have something to complain about. LOL.  And I just got it in the mail today about 40 mins ago. Since it was like 28 degrees outside today I turned it on and left it be for about 30 mins before I  started listening. This Amp is excellent sounding with with HD700s I am borrowing. Next to the SPL Phonitor I really liked. In this price range this amp IS some GOOD SCHIIT.




I think you got an amp with less microphonic tubes. 

Remember that the internal structure of these tube is mechanical, and is very fine and minaturized. There can be significant variation of machanical characteristics from sample to sample. So, yeah, you probably got some of the better tubes in your amp.

It is, indeed, a great sounding amp and a terrific value.


----------



## FraGGleR

lord_tris said:


> I am sorry but all you people that complain about this ringing from vibrations...Really you can barely hear it and its gone in seconds.  I had to literately tap on it hard AF to get it to ring and it was gone in 2-3 secs... And when I had unplugged the headphone and plugged them right back in it happened was gone in 2-3 secs... I guess you have to have something to complain about. LOL.  And I just got it in the mail today about 40 mins ago. Since it was like 28 degrees outside today I turned it on and left it be for about 30 mins before I  started listening. This Amp is excellent sounding with with HD700s I am borrowing. Next to the SPL Phonitor I really liked. In this price range this amp IS some GOOD SCHIIT.


 
 Congratulations!  You are so awesome that yours doesn't ring much!  LOL.  You are totally right that people like me who have ringing that can last up to 45 seconds upon plug in or tapping are either making it up or just complaining about nothing.  ROFL!


----------



## First Gen Hun

I'm the non audiophile girlfriend of lord_tris and I wanted to listen to both the Magni and the Vali
  
 I listened to one of my preferred artists for comparison: Enya - Memory of Trees
  
 Headphones used were HD700 with DHC Cable and foam mod borrowed from EeePee 
  
 Source Yamaha s2500
  
 DIY interconnects 
  
 Vali - I listened to the first track and noticed an immediate difference from listening to MoT on regular CD players.  There was a warmth to the song which I have not heard of before.  There was also a significant emphasis on mid-range and heard low-range a lot more.  Typically, I'm not a huge fan of low-range (bass) but there was more "life" to the song.
  
 Magni -  I don't want to be a downer since he just got the Vali, but I really like the Magni far more.  I was able to hear a lot of the highs that I don't hear on a regular CD player and the bass was not overpowering.  I'd take the Magni over the Vali any day.
  
  
  
 ...after I voiced my assessment, I got called a Treble Monster.  That's a good thing?


----------



## Misterrogers

Thanks for chiming in First Gen Hun! It's kinda cool to hear impressions from those not steeped in this hobby. And yea, it's perfectly fine to be a Treble Monster. We each have our preferences, and they have much to do with our gear preferences.


----------



## AxelCloris

first gen hun said:


> ...after I voiced my assessment, I got called a Treble Monster.  That's a good thing?


 
  
 It's perfectly fine. After all he does own DarthBeyers...


----------



## thegunner100

first gen hun said:


> I'm the non audiophile girlfriend of lord_tris and I wanted to listen to both the Magni and the Vali
> 
> I listened to one of my preferred artists for comparison: Enya - Memory of Trees
> 
> ...


 

 Treble monster... yeah, solid state + hd700 definitely fits the description of a treble monster 
  
 Welcome to head-fi!


----------



## First Gen Hun

misterrogers said:


> Thanks for chiming in First Gen Hun! It's kinda cool to hear impressions from those not steeped in this hobby. And yea, it's perfectly fine to be a Treble Monster. We each have our preferences, and they have much to do with our gear preferences.


 
  
  He figured it be a good idea for me to post and then therefore any new item he comes across he could have me listen to it and I can give my own assessment.
  
_Won'tcha be my neighboooor?_
  


axelcloris said:


> It's perfectly fine. After all he does own DarthBeyers...


 
  
 Well, I can see why he joined the Dark Side.  I hear there's cookies.
  
 I really do like the wood cup thingies but he uses waaay too much bass.  I can't hear a lot of the highs that I'm looking for.  It also helps keep all the sound contained as opposed to the HD700's that I can hear from the next room over.
  


thegunner100 said:


> Treble monster... yeah, solid state + hd700 definitely fits the description of a treble monster
> 
> Welcome to head-fi!


 
  
 Thank you!  As that being my first post and first "official" review, I thought I'd not outright say I hate bass.  _Hate_ is such a strong word.


----------



## Eee Pee

axelcloris said:


> After all he does own DarthBeyers...


 
  
 ...that have been sitting on my shelf doing nothing since I got the HD 650s last Monday.
  
 He's gonna get used to the HD 700s and put the Darths back on and be in for quite a shock.


----------



## purrin

misterrogers said:


> Thanks for chiming in First Gen Hun! It's kinda cool to hear impressions from those not steeped in this hobby. And yea, it's perfectly fine to be a Treble Monster. We each have our preferences, and they have much to do with our gear preferences.


 
  
 LOL, as you already know, many of your friendly neighborhood HF / audiophile friends used to call you a "Treble Monster". And that was perfectly fine among all of us.


----------



## Misterrogers

Heh. Guilty as charged


----------



## lord_tris

eee pee said:


> ...that have been sitting on my shelf doing nothing since I got the HD 650s last Monday.
> 
> He's gonna get used to the HD 700s and put the Darths back on and be in for quite a shock.



Not that the hd700 wouldn't be doing the same thing.


----------



## Eee Pee

lord_tris said:


> Not that the hd700 wouldn't be doing the same thing.


 
  
 Might be true, though it was an 800 and Sonett weekend.  Buzzy transformer on the Mjolnir...


----------



## lord_tris

eee pee said:


> Might be true, though it was an 800 and Sonett weekend.  Buzzy transformer on the Mjolnir...


get some power conditioning for it.


----------



## K.T.

first gen hun said:


> ...after I voiced my assessment, I got called a Treble Monster.  That's a good thing?




Yes! As long as you're not a Treble Monstrosity, all is good!

Say, you aren't related to Count Chocula or Frankenberry, are you?


----------



## First Gen Hun

k.t. said:


> Yes! As long as you're not a Treble Monstrosity, all is good!
> 
> Say, you aren't related to Count Chocula or Frankenberry, are you?


 
 Well, Elizabeth Bathory and Vlad the Impaler were both from former Hungarian regions so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And why have only those two?  Mix ALL the Halloween cereals!


----------



## Transformatron

Mine shipped! I hope I get it by Wednesday. I got my Modi today and it's just sitting there mocking me...


----------



## bigbenrfan99

Is there any problem with using a DAC with only a 3.5 mm out with the Vali?  I have the cable I would need, but I am wondering if there would somehow be a lower sound quality than using a comparable DAC with RCA output.


----------



## thegunner100

bigbenrfan99 said:


> Is there any problem with using a DAC with only a 3.5 mm out with the Vali?  I have the cable I would need, but I am wondering if there would somehow be a lower sound quality than using a comparable DAC with RCA output.


 

 No.


----------



## darinf

FYI, I just received a 75ohm adapter that is meant for Etymotic ER4P's to make it into an ER4S, but it also works great for using IEM/CIEM's with the Vali.
  
 Here's the item I purchased from EBay, but there are lots of them if you search for Etymotic ER4P adapter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281188408675
  
 I ordered it on 12/3 and it arrived from Hong Kong in today's mail.
  
 I have only had it for a few minutes, but it definitely makes my Noble 6 IEM's useable with the Vali. Previously at around 30 Ohms, the Noble 6's were way too noisy with the Vali. Now with this 75 Ohm adapter, I can have my AK120 at full volume (75.0) and the Vali volume set to about 9 o'clock for good listening levels. But the  best thing is that there is absolutely no hiss/noise. I will try some other CIEM's, but I assume this adapter will work also.
  
 I briefly compared the adapter to my Nano Patch + which also works to tame the hiss. I can't say for sure, but I think the sound is better using just this adapter instead of a pot on the Nano, as you would imagine given that the sound is going through a resistor vs. a potentiometer.
  
 The adapter itself doesn't seem to change the sound, but it's hard to compare with all the hiss without the adapter.
  
 Anyway, for the $13, it was worth it. Someone else was getting a cheaper adapter that was shipped from the US. I wonder how that worked out?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1575#post_10033855
  
 -Darin


----------



## Skolar311

Ok, I have a question for you guys.
  
 I just sold my HiFiMAN EF2A because I've been so happy with the Schiit Magni/Modi combo. It just seemed to be a far superior combo from what the EF2A could provide.
  
 Now, that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it (and perhaps miss it a little) but now that the Vali has come out I find myself excited about tubes again. What I didn't like about the EF2A was the limiting 16/44.1 support, channel imbalance, and slightly closed sound-stage. And that's where the Magni/Modi excels for me.
  
 I watch lots of movies, play lots of games and listen to lots of music. Would the Vali excel anywhere where the Magni could not?
  
 Any feedback is appreciated


----------



## tdockweiler

skolar311 said:


> Ok, I have a question for you guys.
> 
> I just sold my HiFiMAN EF2A because I've been so happy with the Schiit Magni/Modi combo. It just seemed to be a far superior combo from what the EF2A could provide.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it's a bit fuller in the mids, less thin/metallic sounding and has smoother (but no lack of) treble.
 The Magni has better controlled bass in my experience and the soundstage isn't as closed in.
  
 I would say that if you're using the Vali with a headphone it plays very well with than it's slightly more neutral than the Magni (to me).
  
 My Magni was fairly neutral, but sort of bright sounding. Nothing too bad but I wouldn't pair it with a DT-990, SR-325 or similar. It's OK with a Q701.
  
 VALI IMO is a side-grade. Not as good as an "all-rounder" IMO. Not a big deal if you don't plan on having more than a few headphones.


----------



## jaywillin

man, this little amp has got some juice !!
  
 it sounds really good driving my lcd2.2


----------



## Skolar311

tdockweiler said:


> Yes, it's a bit fuller in the mids, less thin/metallic sounding and has smoother (but no lack of) treble.
> The Magni has better controlled bass in my experience and the soundstage isn't as closed in.
> 
> I would say that if you're using the Vali with a headphone it plays very well with than it's slightly more neutral than the Magni (to me).
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for that detailed explanation! I didn't really think it was going to take much to push me to get it because it's so affordable and I'm quickly becoming a Schiit-head. In fact, I already am a Schiit-head. The only headphones I own at the moment are the Shure SRH-840's and the Sennheiser HD600's. I've found the Magni/Modi runs them both beautifully, so now I look forward to my Vali experience.
  
 Like you said, I don't plan on owning more than a few headphones. My 3rd and final pair will probably be the HE-400/500's because I gotta at least jump on the Ortho bandwagon 
  
 Thanks again for the info!


----------



## hans030390

mshenay said:


> I MIGHT invent in some FANCY calbe one day, but as for right now, Mono Price is super thick, super well built and cheap as dirt so I enjoy em. I use em for evetything atm! ANd I've used a lot of cable through the years, non of my Mono Prices have failed me thus far!


 


stapsy said:


> Absolutely nothing wrong with Mono Price cables.  You are always going to be better off buying better hardware (DAC, Amp, Headphones) than cables.  Unless you have an uber $5k+ setup I would save that money and put it into the rest of your rig.  I know lots of people with many thousand dollar systems that use Mono Price cables.


 
  
 Monoprice is fantastic for how little you have to pay. Blue Jeans cable offer a nice step up from Monoprice...noticeably more pricey, but I'm sure you've seen pricier. It's great stuff without the ridiculous pricing. I did not have a Monoprice cable to compare, but against a generic RCA cable, I measured a -6dB reduction in 60Hz noise and distortion moving to the BJ RCA cable. Very thick, presumably good shielding, solid. Better than anything I've gotten from Monoprice in terms of overall quality (likely little to no sound difference except _maybe_ in particular situations or in electrically noisy environments like my own), but I also paid a good bit more...something like $30 for a 6' cable vs just a few bucks from Monoprice. But I have to say I was very impressed once I got the BJ cable in my hands. Obviously, I listen to cables with my hands.


----------



## tdockweiler

hans030390 said:


> Monoprice is fantastic for how little you have to pay. Blue Jeans cable offer a nice step up from Monoprice...noticeably more pricey, but I'm sure you've seen pricier. It's great stuff without the ridiculous pricing. I did not have a Monoprice cable to compare, but against a generic RCA cable, I measured a -6dB reduction in 60Hz noise and distortion moving to the BJ RCA cable. Very thick, presumably good shielding, solid. Better than anything I've gotten from Monoprice in terms of overall quality (likely little to no sound difference except _maybe_ in particular situations or in electrically noisy environments like my own), but I also paid a good bit more...something like $30 for a 6' cable vs just a few bucks from Monoprice. But I have to say I was very impressed once I got the BJ cable in my hands. Obviously, I listen to cables with my hands.


 
  
 Sorry for the off-topic post, but BJC also uses Belden Wire too I believe and it's made in the USA. I actually find it better than Mogami. IMO Mogami W2893 has the best shielding and it's dirt cheap.
  
 I know the thickness of the copper doesn't always matter, but the Monoprice stuff is thread-like thin inside. It's like 99% all plastic. It has good shielding though but doesn't even look like copper wiring!
  
 I actually think the Wal-Mart RCA/GE brand crap is just as good.
  
 Right now I use a DIY Double Helix (DHC) interconnect cable I made from scraps I stole from a friend.
  
 Redco is a bit cheaper than BJC and another good option.


----------



## UmustBKidn

cee tee said:


> ...
> 
> Other good news is that I am purposefully typing on a glass desk right next to the Vali with just the rubber feet.  <Slight> ringing if I hit very hard but not even noticeable with music on.  Turning volume still causes some slight ringing.  *Much better now, good times...*
> 
> Here is after re-affixing it to the foam pads:


 
  
 Two words: Rubber Grommets.


----------



## UmustBKidn

olor1n said:


> I can see a toob in a state of arousal through the peep-holes. Not fully erect, but certainly at attention. No squeals when bumped hard. Just a brief, barely audible moan when the knob is turned. No need to screw for now.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

mshenay said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > My previous comment about a "lack" of slam is in relation to the Mjolnir, which hits _hard_. I don't find the Vali dynamically compressed at all though. And I certainly don't perceive it losing detail in busy passages or miring the presentation with overdriven distortion. There's bound to be variance in findings based on many factors, but some of the impressions here are utterly baffling.
> ...



Am I missing something?? Using balanced phones on a single ended amp plugged into a balanced DAC?? Does that even work?


----------



## thegunner100

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> Am I missing something?? Using balanced phones on a single ended amp plugged into a balanced DAC?? Does that even work?


 

 The nfb-10es2 has RCA outs for single ended amps, and then use a XLR -> 1/4 adapter and then everything is single ended. 4pin XLR -> 1/4 adapters are bulky though


----------



## hekeli

Ah great, I'm trying to fix the tubes but seems both screws in the front are borked - they just spin freely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So much for opening it..
  
 edit: Now that I put one of the back screws back, it also borked... and I used extremely little force. So uh yeah be careful.
  
 edit2: Pryed the lid/screws open with good force, not going to waste my time shipping overseas..


----------



## SMG52

darinf said:


> FYI, I just received a 75ohm adapter that is meant for Etymotic ER4P's to make it into an ER4S, but it also works great for using IEM/CIEM's with the Vali.
> 
> Here's the item I purchased from EBay, but there are lots of them if you search for Etymotic ER4P adapter:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281188408675
> ...


 
 Thanks Darin. I just ordered one. I have a Vali arriving tomorrow to check out with my LCD-X headphones, rated at 22ohms and 96 db/mW efficient. Not sure I would have a background hiss issue, but even if there were a _little_ hiss, I would be somewhat annoyed. For $13 delivered, it will be worth having on hand.


----------



## imackler

Jason Stoddard, 
  
 Is there a number or name of the screwdriver we should be using if we need to open our Vali to resettle the tubes? I looked through the vent with a light and it looks like mine is at an angle, too. I tried a couple screwdrivers but neither worked...
  
 Thanks!


----------



## hekeli

imackler said:


> Jason Stoddard,
> 
> Is there a number or name of the screwdriver we should be using if we need to open our Vali to resettle the tubes? I looked through the vent with a light and it looks like mine is at an angle, too. I tried a couple screwdrivers but neither worked...
> 
> Thanks!


 

 25+ multibit screwdriver sets cost like what, $5-10 ? Everyone should have a set at home.  There will be a matching bit.


----------



## FraGGleR

imackler said:


> Jason Stoddard,
> 
> Is there a number or name of the screwdriver we should be using if we need to open our Vali to resettle the tubes? I looked through the vent with a light and it looks like mine is at an angle, too. I tried a couple screwdrivers but neither worked...
> 
> Thanks!


 
 I just used a small philips head screwdriver bit on a multibit handle I got from Walmart for a few dollars.  Unfortunately, it isn't labeled so I don't have an exact size for you.  It seems to be similar in size to alot of screws used in computers.  I also had no issue getting the cover back on and tightening the screws back down.  Is your problem that they won't untighten or that your screwdrivers don't fit into the head of the screws?


----------



## JoeKickass

hekeli said:


> Ah great, I'm trying to fix the tubes but seems both screws in the front are borked - they just spin freely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL that's the spirit!
  
 I too noticed the screws are just turned straight into the sheet metal, Schiit could have stripped the holes themselves it probably wasn't even your fault!
  
  
 But if you want your Vali to sound it's best, naturally you'll want to upgrade to the exotic wood screws?


----------



## K.T.

darinf said:


> FYI, I just received a 75ohm adapter that is meant for Etymotic ER4P's to make it into an ER4S, but it also works great for using IEM/CIEM's with the Vali.
> 
> Here's the item I purchased from EBay, but there are lots of them if you search for Etymotic ER4P adapter:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281188408675
> ...




Is this like the airplane attenuator that is shipped with the UE900? It does modify the sound. But I'm not sure if it's the same thing or not.

I prefer the UE900 with the adapter. There seems to be more punch and control in the sound. But that was straight out of my FiiO X3, not the Vali. So I am a bit OT, here.


----------



## Makiah S

thegunner100 said:


> The nfb-10es2 has RCA outs for single ended amps, and then use a XLR -> 1/4 adapter and then everything is single ended. 4pin XLR -> 1/4 adapters are bulky though


 
 yup, it has a SE RCA out, and I have an adapter. I used the adapter for about 2 weeks when I first got my DT 880, since I only had the M Stage at that point 
 USPS has reported that the amp has departed the Shipping Facility... and that was on the 9'th! Hoping it'll be here friday


----------



## Transformatron

mshenay said:


> yup, it has a SE RCA out, and I have an adapter. I used the adapter for about 2 weeks when I first got my DT 880, since I only had the M Stage at that point
> USPS has reported that the amp has departed the Shipping Facility... and that was on the 9'th! Hoping it'll be here friday




Did you do standard shipping? I picked the USPS 2-day, and mine shipped the 9th also. I hope it's here tomorrow.


----------



## hans030390

Turns out my tubes were indeed getting a bit of a chub, but not fully erect. One of my screws was stuck in place no matter how much I turned it, much like another member experienced. I somehow got the top off anyway, stripped out the screw, bent the metal top back in shape (the corner got quite bent when removing the top, you know, since there was a screw holding it there and I had to pry it off...), and pushed the tubes down. I doubt that will leave my warranty intact, but I really didn't feel like going through some sort of return process. Didn't get a chance to see if it made any difference with ringing, BTW.


----------



## Makiah S

transformatron said:


> Did you do standard shipping? I picked the USPS 2-day, and mine shipped the 9th also. I hope it's here tomorrow.


 
 I only had a USPS 3day option, I live on the eastern sea board q.q so like 1000 miles away. THey had 2 day FedEx but I'm not a fan of Fed Ex


----------



## UmustBKidn

joekickass said:


> LOL that's the spirit!
> 
> I too noticed the screws are just turned straight into the sheet metal, Schiit could have stripped the holes themselves it probably wasn't even your fault!
> 
> But if you want your Vali to sound it's best, naturally you'll want to upgrade to the exotic wood screws?


 
  
 ^ This


----------



## FraGGleR

umustbkidn said:


> ^ This


 
 I know you guys are being facetious, but that just got me thinking about using the silicone screw/decouplers that silent pc makes use to hold fans on cases to attach the top.  
  
 I am pretty much set on keeping the Vali, so I think I might go full tilt and void my warranty by modding the case to see if I can't get the ringing to go away.
  
 Maybe some dynamat extreme on parts of the case.  Strategic Sugru placement.  Silicone caulk on the tubes themselves.


----------



## Rossliew

The microphonics are not that bad. Once music is playing you won't notice it, not even between songs. Listening to it new out of the box now, sweet and solid little amp and the pairing with the Modi + a woodied SR80i is really very, very good considering the price one pays for the pair.


----------



## Makiah S

fraggler said:


> I know you guys are being facetious, but that just got me thinking about using the silicone screw/decouplers that silent pc makes use to hold fans on cases to attach the top.
> 
> I am pretty much set on keeping the Vali, so I think I might go full tilt and void my warranty by modding the case to see if I can't get the ringing to go away.
> 
> Maybe some dynamat extreme on parts of the case.  Strategic Sugru placement.  Silicone caulk on the tubes themselves.


 
 Yea I'think assuming it sounds well good, I'll end up keeping mine for office use. Let us know what you do!
  
 I'm still wondering if Sciit will b making an upgrade package for the Vali, like they have done their dacs


----------



## FraGGleR

rossliew said:


> The microphonics are not that bad. Once music is playing you won't notice it, not even between songs. Listening to it new out of the box now, sweet and solid little amp and the pairing with the Modi + a woodied SR80i is really very, very good considering the price one pays for the pair.


 
 Ehh. I have mine already.  The ringing is very easy to notice, even when music is playing.  Once it goes away, of course I don't hear it 
  
 I am a tinkerer, so if I can get the initial ringing to go away faster or to prevent taps and bumps from making it ring, then I am going to have fun doing so.


----------



## Rossliew

Ahh..maybe at my age, my hearing ability is much lower  In any case, if you do find a good solution to the microphonics, please post it here so perhaps I can try to tinkle a bit myself it is not too much of a hassle. As of now, I'm just enjoying the music...losing myself to dance!


----------



## Robobandit

I opened mine up today and saw that my tubes weren't pushed down that well.
  
 So I pushed them down and I noticed that the microphonics when plugging in my headphones were much less pronounced. Now they only take about 20-30 seconds to settle down. Before, it was closer to 1 minute.


----------



## Makiah S

Ohh mines here finally... might b a day or two till I can pick it up and give it  listen


----------



## K.T.

Yeah, predicting how your damping efforts will affect microphonics is kind of hit and miss. You just have to tinker and see what works.
  
 My Vali came with one tube was fully attached to the board. The other had the pad stuck to the tube, but they were both hanging above the board.
  
 In this state, I would get a high pitched ringing that seemed to come from the center left. If I rapped the top, this ringing would intensify, but there would also be a second much lower pitched ringing (with a slower audible oscillation). That lower pitched ringing is probably coming from the second tube. The lower pitched ringing never gets excited in normal use, so is not an issue.
  
 When I opened up my Vali and pushed the hanging tube down to the board, two things happend:
  
 1. The intensity of the high pitched ringing decreased. It was not as loud as before. But....
  
 2. The amp became MORE sensitive to vibration. It was much more excitable. Before, the ringing started when I move the amp around, or when I plugged or unplugged headphones. Now, even just touching the volume control (not even turning it) or lightly adjusting the headphone cable on the table (not plugging it in or out) will excite the ringing.
  
 This goes away after about 20 seconds or so, but its like walking on eggshells to keep it from ringing.
  
 So I got a positive and a negative out of pushing the tube down. This is the normal state of the amp, with both tubes adhered to the board.
  
 So it's hard to tell what will occur. Still, the amp sounds marvelous when it's playing.


----------



## painted klown

I am surprised that people are still getting units with tubes that aren't flat on the foam pads. I thought I had read a post from Jason where he stated that the issue has been addressed at the factory. Maybe these are ones that were already off the line?

At the rate these units seems to be selling, you would think the new production method would be used in all units currently shipping. Am I missing something here?

EDIT: Nevermind. That was only posted 2 days ago. Probably not enough time to see the new ones coming off the line yet.


----------



## Makiah S

painted klown said:


> I am surprised that people are still getting units with tubes that aren't flat on the foam pads. I thought I had read a post from Jason where he stated that the issue has been addressed at the factory. Maybe these are ones that were already off the line?
> 
> At the rate these units seems to be selling, you would think the new production method would be used in all units currently shipping. Am I missing something here?


 
 I'll see how mine looks. It was purchased about 4 days ago


----------



## JohnBal

I don't have a Vali yet, but I would think something Vibrapod like this would help a bit:

http://www.vibrapod.com/vibrapod.htm

I have some old Audioquest sorbothane feet I am going to try for myself.


----------



## K.T.

johnbal said:


> I don't have a Vali yet, but I would think something Vibrapod like this would help a bit:
> 
> http://www.vibrapod.com/vibrapod.htm
> 
> I have some old Audioquest sorbothane feet I am going to try for myself.


 
  
 Or some of these small ones:
  
http://www.partsconnexion.com/isolation_ear.html
  
 I've had success using these on standard sized audio components in the past.
  
 One thing to remember about these feet is that they need to be weight loaded to effectively dampen vibration. The Vali may be too light for these to fully do their work. You may have to put some sort of weight on top of the Vali to get the proper loading.
  
 If you think about an automotive shock absorber, it works because it's designed for the weight of a car.
  
 If you put automotive shock absorbers on a bicycle, for example, the springs would be way too stiff compared to the weight of the bike. The bike is simply too light.
  
 Same thing with these lossy isolation feet. They need to be loaded with sufficient weight in order to work properly.


----------



## JohnBal

True. Especially for the Vibrapod. My experience with the AQ is that they pretty much absorb any stray vibration in the neighborhood. They feel like a tacky piece of gum. Worth a try anyway. I would only need one. They are the size of a hockey puck


----------



## Xyzygy

Pleased to say that the DT 880 Pro 250 works quite well with the Vali. Now if only I had a quiet office ...


----------



## Solarium

Got my Vali today (#365). I have it stacked right above Magni to make some comparisons. Looking through the holes of the vent, it appears that both tubes are in flat position. The initial ringing takes about 1 minute to go away. After that, changing the volume, moving the headphone cord, typing, moving the mouse all do not cause further ringing. Turning the volume all the way to 100% does not cause noise or static. The volume control is smoother than the Magni's when I got it initially and it doesn't cause static at certain volume levels like the Magni initially, even though it eventually went away.
  
 Listening to norah jones' come away with me album right now with the setup on my sig, I first noticed how tight and more controlled the bass is. The bass isn't exactly more prominent or heavy, but it definitely sounds better. I think the sound stage is *slightly* closer, as though I am in a smaller studio recording room listening to a live performance. I never heard the "watery" sound of tubes before, but I think there's a very tiny addition of reverb, smoothing the sounds to flow almost like a gentle stream. Guitars sounds MUCH better somehow, perhaps due to this watery sensation or a tiny bit of reverb. With the entire sound warming, I think the treble isn't as clear. Certain parts of songs where there's electric guitar hitting higher notes, those aren't as clear as before and doesn't strike out as much among the other instruments playing. I think it's less analytical than the Magni, but less harsh on your ears. I wouldn't say it's "better" than the Magni, more of a choice of what type of amp you want. However, I do like it more than the Magni with my HD650. I wish I can compare it to the Bottlehead Crack though, and would absolutely love to hear that pairing with my HD650.


----------



## K.T.

Give some time for the Vali to burn in. You may find the amp sound nicer after a couple of days.

My experience was that it sounded good on day one, but not exceptional (I did some critical listening right after I got it). The next few days saw some casual background listening. On day 4 I put on the HD598s and, holy cow, does this combo sound great. Hypnotic! So much more involving than on day one.

Does anyone use the HD598 as their main phones with the Vali? It's an awesome sounding combo.


----------



## Rossliew

For me, it sounded pretty good, brand new, with the HD650. Made the Senns less warmer in tonality with very good holographic imaging and haunting vocals on some Canto-pop songs I listened to. Let's see how the sound changes after more running in. Oh, the Vali works great even with my analog front end. So small yet so synergistic...


----------



## Solarium

I 





k.t. said:


> Give some time for the Vali to burn in. You may find the amp sound nicer after a couple of days.
> 
> My experience was that it sounded good on day one, but not exceptional (I did some critical listening right after I got it). The next few days saw some casual background listening. On day 4 I put on the HD598s and, holy cow, does this combo sound great. Hypnotic! So much more involving than on day one.
> 
> Does anyone use the HD598 as their main phones with the Vali? It's an awesome sounding combo.




I originally bought the Vali to use with my HD598's, but upgraded to HD650 after I ordered it. But yea, I figured if there's any headphone it pairs perfectly with it would be the HD598. But I'm also glad it works out for HD650 too

Btw, has anyone compared Vali to Zero, which is an amp with preouts, solid state but with a hint of tube, and around the same price as Vali.


----------



## Magick Man

radio_head said:


> The Uncanny Vali​
> Schiit Audio is a company.  They are well known in the audiophile world.  They make many products from headphone amps to DACs.  The newest of these products is the Vali.  It is a hybrid tube amp for only $120.  This is a new low for Schiit.  Their previous offerings with tubes were not this cheap.  This should make the headphone world tremble.  Already in the first few days it is clear that Schiit has another hit on their hands.  Designed by Jason Stoddard of Sumiko fame, the Vali is an all-out-assault on what a tube amp sounds like and costs.  Like all Schiit products, the Vali is made in America.  The Vali was introduced secretly earlier this year.  Only recently with the reviews of respected beta testers like Jude Mansilla and Warren Pchi has word leaked out of just how good this little amp is.
> 
> ...




You win large trophies made of shiny metal.


----------



## Beagle

rossliew said:


> The microphonics are not that bad. Once music is playing you won't notice it, not even between songs. Listening to it new out of the box now, sweet and solid little amp and the pairing with the Modi + a woodied SR80i is really very, very good considering the price one pays for the pair.


 
  
 I still get ringing in the right side but only when I touch the volume or move the headphone cable. It dies away and then all is well. SInce it makes my headphones sing beautifully, the minor annoyance is easy to live with.


----------



## Makiah S

So SCH 12B 556 is with me now. Sadly I have no way of listening to it until about 4pm today, BUT until then I figured I'd let it BURN in and test the noise
  
 with my 600 ohm DT 880. When I first plug it in it rings... regardless of the volume... I wonder if my less impedanced and more senstive W1000x will make this ringing louder? If so ... ouch but again this is literally Hour 1
  
 anyways after 30 seconds it stops, if I tap on it it rings for about 15 seconds. If I SMASH my hand on teh table [ppl around me stare] and the vali is silent... so hurray.
  
 Meh she will get at least another hour of Burn in, then I'm off to another class room. Then she MIGHT get another 3 hours OR I'll get a ride home right after my last Final
  
 Either way. I'm finding at least with my 600 ohm dt 880 the noise is not an issue. Needless to say the vali might get increasing noisier when I plug my senstive low impedance w1000x, or rather teh noise of the vali may be more obvious


----------



## Stapsy

There was quite a large run of Vali's made for the initial release, I am not surprised that the Vali's that are being shipped now have not been "fixed".  FWIW I have had no problems whatsoever with mine and the tubes are still stuck to the foam even after being in sub-zero temperatures for an extended period of time.  Not saying there are no problems, I just don't want people who are considering a Vali to be unduly influenced by the comments of a few people that have had some issues.  Schiit are good people and I am sure they will take care of anyone who is having serious problems with the tubes.


----------



## Khragon

Anyone having problem contacting Schiit? I tried their email, their sale rep email (alex), I tried facebook, I tried Google+, I tried leaving voice messages.  It has been more than a week they still haven't got back to me.  I need resolve a problem they said they are having with my vali payment.


----------



## skyline315

khragon said:


> Anyone having problem contacting Schiit? I tried their email, their sale rep email (alex), I tried facebook, I tried Google+, I tried leaving voice messages.  It has been more than a week they still haven't got back to me.  I need resolve a problem they said they are having with my vali payment.


 
  
 That's unusual.  
  
 I usually send Jason a PM here on head-fi and he always response in the same day.


----------



## Barry S

The microphonics was never a big issue for me, even with both of my tubes lifted off of the foam. My tubes seem about average in the amount of microphonics, but as long as I use a gentle touch when I plug in headphones or adjust the volume, it isn't an issue.  I haven't noticed a huge difference between before and after I stuck the tubes down again, but either way, it wasn't a big problem.


----------



## 4nradio

barry s said:


> The microphonics was never a big issue for me, even with both of my tubes lifted off of the foam. My tubes seem about average in the amount of microphonics, but as long as I use a gentle touch when I plug in headphones or adjust the volume, it isn't an issue.  I haven't noticed a huge difference between before and after I stuck the tubes down again, but either way, it wasn't a big problem.


 
  
 Same here, Barry. Microphonics are so minimal in my Vali I presumed the tubes were stuck down well. Not!! Both are lifted off the foam. I think I'll open the case to fix them anyway.
  
 BTW I have close to 300 hours burn-in on my Vali, having run it nearly continuously since its arrival. Perhaps that's enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I wonder if I should have let it have a cool-down rest every 8 hours or so? That's what I did with previous tube amps like the Lyr, but I'd forgotten about this practice until now. Maybe its not needed with Vali...since most of the (moderately low) heat of the Vali comes from the SS components rather than the tubes.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'd say put the rest of the tube hours into listening and enjoying the music now.


----------



## Makiah S

You know what... this tube isn't as noisy as I thought it would be... I'm really impressed with my first liestening of if
  
 I'm feeding it off my HM 801 line out. ATM it's the best dac I can use, the NFB 10ES2 is at my apprentment, and I'm with my parents. Hoping to get all my things some time this week
  
 but again for first impressions, I'm satisfied. And Dare I say it gave the treble the slight wetness it needed! I dare say I do! 
  
 Anyways yea first impressions on the W1000x, Metallica sounds fine. Lacking a bit of speed [due to the w1000x] but I can hear the wetness. What was before an unpleasent experince [metal and the w1000x.... eww no thanks] is mangaeble
  
 anyways big ole review in like 6 days. When I get up to 21+ hours on it [or more] 
  
 Ok so the song ended and there is a slight bit of... noise but compared to the Indeed G3 and Millet Hybrid I had, it's nothing honestly. Those hybrids where noisy during quiet passages
  
 I'm listening to an orchestral piece now, and ... the violins sounds wonderful. THe bass yea this is Tube Bass, this is the wetness of tube bass I'm hearing in the cello... It's not bad. I'll keep the rest of my comments to my self
  
 So with bass guitar it's much the same... Tube bass.... going to let it burn in before I comment about the bass again.... 
  
 Ahh onto Vocals... and yes Mrs Lisa Edkhal... has a very nice vocal preseance over my solid states! My Nfb 10ES2 kills Lisa's voice even out of the HM801 the Vali has a nice vocal presentation, stacked upon the W1000x already sexy vocals and yes! Me Gusta...
  
 The ringing is back, honestly I don't mind it. Not the ugliest noise I've ever heard in my life. I do say I find it mildly pleasent
  
 Onto Sarah Jorasez.... me gusta I do like it. I think for the Warm hm801 the vali isn't going to blow any one away. That said, paired with my Cold NFB 10ES2 I think I'm going to be a happy camper! Sarah's voice has a nice edge to it, a very pleasent but a hard hitting tone to her voice... There's a delicacy and femmine quality but some power behind it! The vali doesn't lose that edge, but doesn't over retain it as nicely as my pb1 [which has boosted central and upper mids]
  
 So that said, I'm very confident this will par nicely with my NFB 10ES2 which is the polar oppiste of my HM801 and pb1 in terms of sound [to some extent]. Ok well till them enjoy that
  
 The biggest point I'm Making is for ME, COLD dac with the Vali plz. The HM 801 isn't bad but it's not wowing anyone with the w1000x atm
  
 Going to swap over to the DT 880 some point today. 
  
 I will say this though... in terms of DETAIL the Vali kicks the pb1 in the tush! LIstened to the end of that Sarah Jorasez song... and totally had a "Whoa never heard that before" moment!


----------



## Sekka

mshenay said:


> You know what... this tube isn't as noisy as I thought it would be... I'm really impressed with my first liestening of if
> 
> I'm feeding it off my HM 801 line out. ATM it's the best dac I can use, the NFB 10ES2 is at my apprentment, and I'm with my parents. Hoping to get all my things some time this week
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using the 75 ohm impedance adapter for the W1000x for these impressions?


----------



## Makiah S

sekka said:


> Are you using the 75 ohm impedance adapter for the W1000x for these impressions?


 
 NOPE, I couldn't get it from ZOmbie in time, honestly... I can do with out it. The noise isn't NEARLY as bad as I thought it was going to be, and I'd rather not complicate the chain with the adapter. The volume control isn't AMAZING [like on my NFB 10ES2] but it's more than sufficient]
  
 DT 880 IMPRESSIONS
  
 I'm happy for this actually, about 1 year ago literally, I sat in the very same room I am in now and listened to my brand new INdeed G3 hooked up to my hm601... now I'm listening to a Schiit Vali out of an HM 801... and yes the Schiit Vali... is much cleaner, quieter and balanced than my Indeed G3 was... that moment a year ago was my first BIG step into this hobby... and it was in important step. I rolled tubes into that indeed G3, I measured the bias a few times. Heck I once spent an hour trying to get it perfectly matched... my back ached my feet hurt and I was MAD... but once it was done I was happy. So in a sense... Owning the G3 felt like a right of passage, it required a lot of work... heck the Voltage pots used to bais the amp would skew after about 8 hours of use and I'd have to rebalance them
  
 that said, the Schiit Vali is SO much simple'r to use... literally plug an done
  
 as far as the sound goes... it adds a nice sense of intimacy to the Dt 880, while keeping things very tight. The bass is a little wetter than I like but, a step above the W1000x [open vs closed with that comment] 
  
 Mids are just lovely! WIth the balanced NFB 10ES2 can I analyze or get lost in teh music, it has that quality to it and for that reason I do love it. 
  
 The vali on the other hand... why analyze the music with it... just sit back and flow with it all. That extra touch of warmth and decay are much appreciated, espically paired with the Hm 801. So it's a very pleasurable combo. Detail wise it's better than the pb1 yet again, and it's on par if not better than my Matrix M Stage Was, and while the M Stage had optional gain switches, the Vali still has more headroom with my dt 880 than my M Stage had on Max gain
  
 so the sound is... detailed, nicely balanced, great sense of air and mostly... enjoyable! I lose of touch of delicacy and gain a smidge of intimacy and lushness. For any one who's got an 250 ohm ot 600 dt 880 or 990, the Vali is a no brainer in my book 
  
 Back to the Sub Bass... just had a "whoa that's new moment" listening to 
  
 Search a Seal Track 03
 Tales of Simphonia OST 16bit Lossless
  
 And let me tell you... I have not FELT this Sub Bass KICK before. I've heard it with the nfb 10es2... but the vali and hm801 combo are giving it some NICE WEIGHT and body... it just feels so HEAVY, a good balance of tightness, body and weight. 
  
 so yea if you have a open back Beyer DT Headphone, get the Vali. It's wonderful! It's hard for me to comment on how well it handles details over my M Stage, seeing as I'm using the HM801 as a source over the oDac I paired with my M stage, but with my pb1 I felt my hm801 pb1 combo was on par with my old oDac M Stage combo... with the Vali... the Hm801 seems to be much better for the DT 880
  
  
 My final first thoughts are, with a spacious balanced open headphone like my dt 880, I like the warm hm801 dac and the Wet Vali tube! It's very balanced and very awesome!
  
 With the Intimate, equally balanced but closed and slighty drier w1000x, I'm craving for a much COLDER source. To really keep the W1000x's taut sound, she sounds a little to warm with the vali and hm 801


----------



## CJ_CoCa

I just got my VALI yesterday, I got to try it with an iPod classic and my HE-400 for now but I'm worried I'm going deaf or something! Most people seem to say that they listen to it at about 9 o'clock on the volume dial but for me to be at a good volume it seems to be at 12 (11 would be a good volume as well but 12...WOW), any one else has noticed this?

As for the microphonics, they go away in about 20 seconds and with the music playing I can barely notice them, both tubes seem to be flat.


----------



## Makiah S

cj_coca said:


> I just got my VALI yesterday, I got to try it with an iPod classic and my HE-400 for now but I'm worried I'm going deaf or something! Most people seem to say that they listen to it at about 9 o'clock on the volume dial but for me to be at a good volume it seems to be at 12 (11 would be a good volume as well but 12...WOW), any one else has noticed this?
> 
> As for the microphonics, they go away in about 20 seconds and with the music playing I can barely notice them, both tubes seem to be flat.


 
 ehh, even with my DT 880 600 ohm I'm only at 9 oClock. A little over 9 actually for the quieter songs. My w1000x sits near 8:30 ish 
  
 it could be the strength of your iPods line out. I know my HM 801 line out is... well it's a little much for the w1000x imo. Compared to my UAC 202 which requires about 10:30 11:00 with my Pb1 [which is twice as powerful as the Vali] where as the hm801, requires the pb1 to hover no higher than 8
  
 although when I owned an iPod I found them to be... loud


----------



## karlsonklam

how may it compare to the Indeed hybrid amp? - my cans include HE-300, T50RP (stock), EVO 681  - assume the subminiature tube is not icluded in the feedback loop (?)  - is the Magni better suited for HE-300?


----------



## CJ_CoCa

mshenay said:


> ehh, even with my DT 880 600 ohm I'm only at 9 oClock. A little over 9 actually for the quieter songs. My w1000x sits near 8:30 ish
> 
> it could be the strength of your iPods line out. I know my HM 801 line out is... well it's a little much for the w1000x imo. Compared to my UAC 202 which requires about 10:30 11:00 with my Pb1 [which is twice as powerful as the Vali] where as the hm801, requires the pb1 to hover no higher than 8
> 
> although when I owned an iPod I found them to be... loud


 
 Thanks, man. I'll try it later today with my computer and the MODI (didn't try it before because I didn't have RCA Cables). Even though I did notice that with just the HE-400 and the iPod I had the volume at Max Level and it sounded kinda "low" while on the iMac about 50% of the volume would be more than enough. The iPod seems to be the "problem".
  
 thanks again!


----------



## Makiah S

karlsonklam said:


> how may it compare to the Indeed hybrid amp? - my cans include HE-300, T50RP (stock), EVO 681  - assume the subminiature tube is not icluded in the feedback loop (?)  - is the Magni better suited for HE-300?


 
 The Indeed was a noisy joke... check the dt 880 thread. I literally used to have to re balance the Bias pots on my Indeed G3 like every 8 hours of use... if I didn't I'd get serious channel imbalance... I mean the indeed is a great way to learn about tube maintance. Rolling, balancing... OMG don't be so ROUGH with that tube [ing]
  
 So its a good experince, but for the money the vali sounds better .
  
 Now that said, if your handy with electronics the Indeed can be a REALLY good deal. As if you can mod it, you can get a nice amount of upgrade onto to it, and you can roll 6 volt and 12 votl tubes! So for the handy DIY guy it's much more versitile. For an idiot like me... the simplicity of the Vali is great.


----------



## Transformatron

karlsonklam said:


> how may it compare to the Indeed hybrid amp? - my cans include HE-300, T50RP (stock), EVO 681  - assume the subminiature tube is not icluded in the feedback loop (?)  - is the Magni better suited for HE-300?


 
 I'm getting my Vali today and I feel that it will be perfect for the HE-300s. I'll give some impressions later tonight.


----------



## Maxvla

CJ, your iPod outputs approximately 1.0-1.2V. Most common unbalanced outputs are 2.0V. I would imagine if you tried another source, that was non-portable, you would have volume around 9 o'clock like the others.


----------



## eccom

I wish there was a way to get unity gain or something like 2x gain. IMO it's excessive but then I don't use orthos, just hd650. 

I play my dac at 50% and the Vali at 9 o clock. I've never even used the 2.5x gain on the O2 - always 1x.


----------



## hmorneau

maxvla said:


> CJ, your iPod outputs approximately 1.0-1.2V. Most common unbalanced outputs are 2.0V. I would imagine if you tried another source, that was non-portable, you would have volume around 9 o'clock like the others.


 
 I use the unbalanced output of my W4S DAC2 (which is 2.6volt) and I listen to it at about 12 oclock (with the T1) and around 2 oclock with the DT880 600ohms.
  
 I will get some XLR to RCA cable to get my 5,2 volts output and see if it's better. I would not worry too much about it.
  
 So far after more hours, I like that little Vali, but I think it's a bit too warm to my taste and the bass are a bit too slow and uncontrolled. I guess the damping factor is pretty low on this amp. 
  
 I don't hear as many details then with the Auditor, but it's a bit easier on the treble. So it's more enjoyable with poorly recorded records.
  
 After more listening, now think that the T1 is superior to the DT880 on the Vali, but the sound stage is really small and the T1 feel underpowered.
  
 Basically I'm comparing a $1000 amp to a $119 which is not fair (but it's the only thing I have), so well, it's really nice for the price. 
  
 I just reconnected my T1 to the auditor and to me the sound is much better (more detailed, faster, clearer, sound stage is bigger, there is more air, the amp feel more powerful and instrument separation is better) but also colder and more analytical which is the price to pay I guess to get that level of details.
  
 Basically I would recommend more the Vali for the DT880 and the Auditor for the T1.


----------



## PJ11

I'm finally in the Modi>Vali>HD650 camp after receiving my Vali yesterday. I'm still obviously in burn in phase but so far I am pleased. Songs are somewhat hit or miss, a few sound absolutely incredible, amazing separation and clarity, and I've found that it's the lower mids that are really triumphing early on. Bass is punchy and I've yet to hear the real farty bass except on a select few songs that I usually hear it on anyway (NIN Slipping Away). It's definitely not bass-heavy but it's tight and weighty enough. The soundstage is extremely erratic so far, and I've only had that blown away feeling on a select few songs.
  
 Happy to report next to zero microphonics unless I tap fairly aggressively and then it dissipates almost immediately. 
  
 There was a poster talking about volume. I'm running with the Audirvana Plus on a macbook and have the Vali knob turned to about 10 O'clock most of the time which is where some songs are just a bit too loud but most are perfect. If I leave it at 9 O'clock I'd say ~70% of songs are too quiet. This has left me adjusting the volume a bit.
  
 Over all I expect things to improve as I burn it in a bit more but I can already tell there's some good synergy. I'll write a more expansive report at 100 hours.


----------



## rreifsn

I'd like to make another update on my Vali experience since it has been positive in the long run.  I returned my first unit because I had a problem with a strong ringing in my right channel.  The ringing was persistent.  I returned my amp and got a new one which has worked perfectly for over a week.  No harmonics and great sound.  I don't know what to say about all the posts concerning erect tubes but I sent mine back and Schiit sent me a dead cool unit.


----------



## Transformatron

Got the Modi/Vali setup and warmed up. I have to start off by saying it is a big upgrade from my iPod to cMoy or directly from the iPod. My HE-300 is modded, felt removed and replaced with thinner material (gets rid of the dark sound).

I've been listening for about 2 hours with the Modi/Vali stack with my HE-300. Everything is clearer and cleaner all around. Bass is the biggest upgrade with the stack, the sub-bass doesn't just give up anymore and the bass is much much tighter. Mids are more or less the same, the little things are the most noticeable change (picks plucking on a guitar, people talking in the background). The whole range has a wet presence as has been said a few times before. Treble change is my least favorite, it just seems thicker and slower. I preferred the thinner treble.

Now for a shocker, I'm not happy with my HE-300s anymore... I was completely satisfied with them before the stack. I am being completely honest saying that these just dead end and don't scale. I feel like the amp is wanting something better to work with and the HE-300 cannot keep up. I will be looking to get HE-400s very soon now and enjoy that sweet soundstage/speed/bass/detail upgrade.

I apologize for not being organized with my thoughts at the moment as I now have my 1 year old attacking me. Let me know if I should clarify anything.

Summary:
- Very, very satisfied with the stack
- What microphonics? (mine is #575 and is very quiet)
- Great with the HE-300 but don't expect HD650 class


----------



## Beocord

cj_coca said:


> I just got my VALI yesterday, I got to try it with an iPod classic and my HE-400 for now but I'm worried I'm going deaf or something! Most people seem to say that they listen to it at about 9 o'clock on the volume dial but for me to be at a good volume it seems to be at 12 (11 would be a good volume as well but 12...WOW), any one else has noticed this?
> 
> As for the microphonics, they go away in about 20 seconds and with the music playing I can barely notice them, both tubes seem to be flat.


 
  
 I think it is useless to pay attention to what kind of volumes other people listen to unless files played, players and settings used etc are specifically stated. With some music I can crank Vali all the way up when using foobar with crossfeed dsp. With certain pieces of music I can even crank up the Vali AND Xiang Sheng dac-01 that I use as a preamp/dac. If I were to do that listening to spotify I would propably go def.
  
 I was quite certain that I would end up selling xiang sheng or taking it to my parents place to be used as a dac for a pair of genelec 6010a monitor speakers. So a long side Vali I also purchased modi to be my dac until I upgrade to meier daccord. Even out of the box it is clear that vali/modi is better than dac-01. Soundstage is slightly improved, detail is improved, bass got bit more authority. Biggest improvement is the highs. Dac-01 tends to be very bright which leads to grainy sound with most headphones on a occasion. Schiit sounds more natural. It is cheaper to get dac-01 in eu than schiit. In both cases you have to pay taxes but from china there are no shipping fees. I'ts worth it though. Schiit stack is an obvious upgrade for me. Only thing that xiang sheng does better is mere power. It seems that ear breaking loudness levels are achieved about 30-40% faster with dac-01 than Vali. And of course if one needs multiple functions and connections dac-01 is a better deal. But judged by sound quality only vali/modi is a a solid choice.


----------



## K.T.

transformatron said:


> Now for a shocker, I'm not happy with my HE-300s anymore... I was completely satisfied with them before the stack. I am being completely honest saying that these just dead end and don't scale. I feel like the amp is wanting something better to work with and the HE-300 cannot keep up. I will be looking to get HE-400s very soon now and enjoy that sweet soundstage/speed/bass/detail upgrade.




Well, if your HE-300s were doing something right before, you might still want to hang onto them.

One thing I've learned over the years is that system synergy is king. You may have a system comprised of very highly rated components. But if they don't work as a complimentary team, the results can be severely lacking.

On the other hand, you can put together a system of moderately priced or even inexpensive components, ones that work very well together, and the results can be a lot, lot better than you would expect them to be.

For example, I used to work in a high-end audio boutique in Manhattan (what a ridiculous term for a stereo shop, I know). We had expensive, highly rated lines, as well as moderately priced ones, and some "budget" ones. 

The one system pairing that the staff was contstantly amazed by was a Cairn or Creek DC player hooked up to a Cairn or Creek integrated amp, driving Epos 11 speakers. 

The music from this system was so communicative and emotional. One local guy (who, incidentally, would come in for long listening sessions but never bought anything) actually cried when he listen to his music on this system. That was a first for me, but it confirmed what we were observing about system matching.

Now this isn't a budget system (I think the whole getup was around $2400 for the CD player, amp, and speakers at the time), but it was as musically satisfying as other systems we had that cost 4, 5 or 6 times as much.

Incidentally, all of these components performed well with other amps, speakers, etc, but this particular combination really elevated the performance to a special level. System synergy.

Regarding your HE-300, if there's something you really like about them, you may love them a lot more with a complimentary amp, dac, etc. that pairs well with them. It doesn't sound like the Vali is part of the equation with these phones.

On the other hand, you could build your system off of the Vali, and see what headphones, dac, etc. pair well with it. 

Please read the thread for people's impression of the HE-400 with the Vali. I didn't find it a satisfactory pairing, myself, but others have had success with it. Still, if you get a HE-400 and find that doesn't quite do it for you on the Vali, it's still a great headphone to have.

Good luck!


----------



## 4nradio

tuco1965 said:


> I'd say put the rest of the tube hours into listening and enjoying the music now.


 
  
 I was listening frequently all along the way to the 300 hour mark...a very enjoyable listen! Perhaps it's my ears / brain that have been burning in


----------



## Makiah S

4nradio said:


> I was listening frequently all along the way to the 300 hour mark...a very enjoyable listen! Perhaps it's my ears / brain that have been burning in


 
 Well I'm nearing about 10 hours my self now, doing some listening with my UAC 202 Dac and my Vali, watching some Net Flix. Have to say it's soundin fine. Bass is taught enough, 3D imagining is sufficent. But there's not a whole lot to be said about streaming lol... well at least not from me. I stream at about 480 quality... chances are I'm running compressed audio in that mix as well. Will do come critcal listening when I get home!


----------



## Belenga

After reading the thread up to this point, it seems that the jury is still out deciding on the overall superiority of the Vali over the Magni on the budget amp category. One would be preferable over the other depending on sound preferences, headphones used, etc. In the meantime, Christmas is approaching, and I have the feeling that I will get a present that might improve my current sound system. I would like to ask those who have experience with Schiit products if you can help me decide on this present.
  
 I currently send music from an iMac, through an Airport Express, to a Naim NAC92+NAP90 combo. Because these amplifiers have no headphone output, the music flows through a JDS Labs's cMoyBB 2.03 to my modded Denon D2000 (the modding procedure is detailed here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/350721/denon-d2000-d5000-md2000-md5000-appreciation-thread/3105#post_10063200). I'm pretty happy with my modded Denon. There is greater depth and coherence in the soundstage. Better instrument separation. The sound is more out-of-the-head and true to reality. The volume levels of bass and treble are more in line with the frequency curve. Differently from the original markl mod, I believe that the treble is less harsh and smeared in my Denon due to the use of felt covering the FatMat's shinny surface. Sibiliance was significant decreased, but not eliminated.
  
 Yet, I keep reading impressions on this site that trigger my imagination about how the sound produced by my system could become even better. Now, please bear in mind that I live in Brazil, and availability and affordability of hi-fi equipment are not among the qualities of this otherwise wonderful land. For now, I can only dream about such things as the bass of the Audeze LCD-2.2, the soundstage of the Sennheiser HD800, the transparency of the Stax SR-009, etc. What I mean to say is that my first-hand knowledge of the sound possibilities afforded by different headphone systems is rather limited.
  
 In any case, I am sure that US$1000+ could bring me to another level of headphone experience. But I am not ready for that sort of commitment. I'm more thinking of spending, like, 350 dollars, approximately the cost of having Schiit's Modi + Vali/Magni in my possession. So, my present doubts are the following:
  
 1. By using one of the Schiit combos to bypass the iMac's DAC > Airport Express > Naim > cMoyBB chain, am I likely to perceive significant gains in terms of sound quality? In what ways specifically?
  
 2. Should I opt for the Vali or the Magni? From the very few impressions I've read of the Vali with Fostexes and Denons similar to mine, the floor level hiss was not an issue. Nor do I think that tube microphonics will be. Or I am mistaken? I do hope that sibilance in human voices could be further decreased -- that could be the most important achievement of new sourcing equipment for me. Secondly, the bass could become better textured and highs, smoother. And other improvements are welcome too.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Solarium

I still have difficulty deciding between the Magni or Vali to pair with the HD650. The Magni worked perfectly with my HD598 which I will be returning because I will be using the HD650 exclusively and to save costs. I heard the Magni first with the HD650 then the Vali. The Vali definitely added some kind of wetness to the sound across the board, and possibly more warmth with a tighter and more prominent bass. Say the Magni is more neutral, would adding more warmth, bass, and decay from the Vali to the HD650'd already pronounced warmth, bass and decay be overkill?


----------



## karlsonklam

same problem - Magni? or Vali? - which is the most appropriate "overall" for HE300?


----------



## lord_tris

Get them both end of story, you get a nice SS amp and a nice Tube amp. They are both good little starter amps. In case you want to get a really nice headphone before your amp, either one will push most of the headphones out on the market (minus a couple of super power hungry headphones).


----------



## nixkid

karlsonklam said:


> same problem - Magni? or Vali? - which is the most appropriate "overall" for HE300?


 
 Wondering the same thing but for the HE400.  Already have the Magni...is it worth it complete the "Schiit Tower"?


----------



## lord_tris

nixkid said:


> Wondering the same thing but for the HE400.  Already have the Magni...is it worth it complete the "Schiit Tower"?


 
  
 My schiit tower is pretty good i am pleased with it, till i save up for a bigger schiit pile ie GUN and MJO.  Even then I will keep the little schiits around connected to the GUN. Just so I can keep my SE stuff around.


----------



## rreifsn

I have HE400s and while I don't have a Magni I do have an Asgard 1.  Beyond a doubt the HE400s sound much better with the Vali.  My HD600s, on the other hand, like the Asgard better.


----------



## Transformatron

karlsonklam said:


> same problem - Magni? or Vali? - which is the most appropriate "overall" for HE300?



I can say that the Vali is a solid choice to start with. I don't know about the Magni though.


----------



## karlsonklam

- would build something simple if I felt better - hopefully an Ultrapath would be compact compared to this stupid thing I threw together ~20 years ago - do any readers here off hand know the approximate output Z of EP's 6SN7 Ultrapath with recommended EP transformers?  currently my HE300 are running off XDA2's amp.   A Ross Martin dac oughta work well with Vali and some cans.
  
 http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/69/2a30uf.jpg


----------



## imackler

solarium said:


> I still have difficulty deciding between the Magni or Vali to pair with the HD650. The Magni worked perfectly with my HD598 which I will be returning because I will be using the HD650 exclusively and to save costs. I heard the Magni first with the HD650 then the Vali. The Vali definitely added some kind of wetness to the sound across the board, and possibly more warmth with a tighter and more prominent bass. Say the Magni is more neutral, would adding more warmth, bass, and decay from the Vali to the HD650'd already pronounced warmth, bass and decay be overkill?


 
 I was not a fan of the Magni. Fine, but bright and tinny. The Vali is...magic with the HD650. imo.


----------



## eccom

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






belenga said:


> After reading the thread up to this point, it seems that the jury is still out deciding on the overall superiority of the Vali over the Magni on the budget amp category. One would be preferable over the other depending on sound preferences, headphones used, etc. In the meantime, Christmas is approaching, and I have the feeling that I will get a present that might improve my current sound system. I would like to ask those who have experience with Schiit products if you can help me decide on this present.
> 
> I currently send music from an iMac, through an Airport Express, to a Naim NAC92+NAP90 combo. Because these amplifiers have no headphone output, the music flows through a JDS Labs's cMoyBB 2.03 to my modded Denon D2000 (the modding procedure is detailed here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/350721/denon-d2000-d5000-md2000-md5000-appreciation-thread/3105#post_10063200). I'm pretty happy with my modded Denon. There is greater depth and coherence in the soundstage. Better instrument separation. The sound is more out-of-the-head and true to reality. The volume levels of bass and treble are more in line with the frequency curve. Differently from the original markl mod, I believe that the treble is less harsh and smeared in my Denon due to the use of felt covering the FatMat's shinny surface. Sibiliance was significant decreased, but not eliminated.
> 
> ...






If your iMac and airport express is anything like mine I would expect a magni to be a noticeably better source. I've mainly compared to an ODAC, and the there is bigger stage as well as tighter bass. The express has a slight bass bloom and the airplay stream has a lot off odd jitter and timing adjustments.


----------



## Transformatron

I'm digging the Modi/Vali stack with my HE-300s even more after a full day of burn in and another hour listening session.


----------



## karlsonklam

ordered a Vali = my first POS - love to try Loki - what does it take to get DSD into a pc/MAC from an A/D?


----------



## x838nwy

karlsonklam said:


> ordered a Vali = my first POS - love to try Loki - what does it take to get DSD into a pc/MAC from an A/D?


 
  
 Captain Obvious came by. I asked him for you and he said "a cable".
  
 I think most have used some kind of recorder - Korg or Tascam. The latter I think uses an internal memory and then transfers that via usb as a file. The Korg i *think* uses an s/pdif cable with its own software at the computer. They both work more like recorders than rippers, if you see what I mean. I have no idea how you'd go about editing (like splitting tracks) and all that in DSD.


----------



## Rossliew

My Vali continues to amaze and astound. Transparent yet no less punchy and full bodied in sound when paired with my Grados. Playing metal through this pairing is just insane. No matter what I threw at it, it delivers just as how the recording was meant to be heard. The question now remains, would I need something else, be it more expensive or higher end? I do have an eye and ear out for Schiit's statement amp but everything in between is not necessary for me any more. Vali stands head and shoulders above others in my opinion.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

aren't computer DSD tracks either downloads or modded PS3 rips?


----------



## wes008

nic rhodes said:


> aren't computer DSD tracks either downloads or modded PS3 rips?


 
 Yes. The "modded PS3 rips" are actually rips from SACDs.


----------



## vegards

Running Schiit modi and vali with the HE-400. It is great, but on high volume the highs get tearing for my ears, but I've found that using the forward config for foobar2000 makes it really lively so I don't up the volume as much.

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


----------



## Sweden

Been listening to the Vali mostly with HD800 and I agree that this is a great combo.
 Not the final say in resolution, soundstage size and holographic imaging or the type of tube euphony I feel the HD800 benefits from but I'm mighty impressed for what I paid. It has a really nice quality of being smooth enough without masking too much of the HD800s capabilities. Concero HD + Vali + HD800 + TB Isone and bass EQ = Total Eargasm
 Need to listen a bit more with the LCD-3.
 And it have been totally useless with the in-ears I tried.


----------



## Makiah S

vegards said:


> Running Schiit modi and vali with the HE-400. It is great, but on high volume the highs get tearing for my ears, but I've found that using the forward config for foobar2000 makes it really lively so I don't up the volume as much.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


 
 Loud volume is bad for your hearing... which is why the highs are tearing at your ears... I'm glad you found a safer alternitive to listening at such a high volume!


----------



## Bigglesworth

vegards said:


> Running Schiit modi and vali with the HE-400. It is great, but on high volume the highs get tearing for my ears, but I've found that using the forward config for foobar2000 makes it really lively so I don't up the volume as much.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss




I dunno, maybe this little Schiit doesn't have the power you need to get good treble performance at high volumes with ortho's? I'm half joking, but looking at the specs says it doesn't quite have the power to properly power orthodynamic headphones....might want to step up to a lyr, mjolnihr, or Soloist. Remember, just 'cause something can get loud doesn't mean it is a "good" loud. Clipping on an amplifier usually sounds pretty loud and you hear it most in treble impurity.


----------



## MickeyVee

Agreed.. Vali with HD800 is not to bad at all.  Tried it directly from my MacBook Air HP out and it's quite listenable for causal listening.  Tried it with the DragonFly and it was too sharp and fatiguing.
 Out of my MacMini fed by the Rega DAC it's quite nice.  A little on the rough side (compare to my WA7) but quite dynamic and full - but we're talking the HD800 here. It's the first entry level amp for me that's a keeper!
  
 Quote:


sweden said:


> Been listening to the Vali mostly with HD800 and I agree that this is a great combo.


----------



## purrin

vegards said:


> Running Schiit modi and vali with the HE-400. It is great, but on high volume the highs get tearing for my ears,


 
  
 This is normal with the HE-400. The HE-400 has a little mid-treble peak. When run with amps which don't roll of the treble and at high volume, it's going to be tizzy. You can always cut 10kHz a few db with EQ.


----------



## imackler

So anyone heard the Vali w/ both the HD600 and HD650? Which is the better combo with the Vali?


----------



## purrin

HD600.


----------



## OmarCCX

Would I be crazy if I bought this for my GR07?

 I have a -12 dB Attenuator so too much volume or channel imbalance wouldn't be a problem (plus I can control the volume output from my A5+).


----------



## eccom

A 12 db attenuator would result in unity gain, but I'd guess you'd still be just at 8-9 on the amp. It would be necessary to control the volume from the dac and without the attenuator it would be useless due to the noise level.


----------



## karlsonklam

- does Vali have a lot more inherent noise than Magi?  - XDA2 has a nice attenuator - just wondering if some IEM can be used if Vali's gain is kept low.


----------



## FlySweep

imackler said:


> So anyone heard the Vali w/ both the HD600 and HD650? Which is the better combo with the Vali?


 


purrin said:


> HD600.


 
  
 Interesting.. I liked the 600 w/ the Vali.. but I like the 650/Vali pairing _a whole lot more_.  I'm also finding out that I prefer the 650 (much) more than the 600 (and I've _raved_ about the HD600.. it's wonderful.. but I feel the 650 is more refined in every way.. and scales better.. even with 'mid-fi' gear).  I hear more of what the Vali is capable of off the 650 (and vice versa).


----------



## RMiller

Got my Vali today, #300... was a bit worried pairing it with Sony MA900 after everything said here, but no problems for now, there's a slight whine when I plug in the headphones, but it goes away faster than I can find the song I want to hear  Granted, apartment I live in is not the quietest, but no complaints really 
 Gets worse with closed headphones and short cable though, every tug of the cable makes it ring if it's directly transfered to jack, MA900 has very long cable so it doesn't affect it much it seems.


----------



## morpheusx

Anyone tried Vali with low impedance headphone like mdr-1r, ESW-11, fidelio l1,l2, momentum ?


----------



## wje

morpheusx said:


> Anyone tried Vali with low impedance headphone like mdr-1r, ESW-11, fidelio l1,l2, momentum ?


 
  
 Yes.  I am.  Your AT headphones appear to have an impedence of 44 Ohms when I checked the specs.  I'm using a "hybrid" set of headphones at the moment and consist of  Sennheiser PX100 II drivers mounted into Wooden (Grado-style) cups.  The impedence my Sennheiser drivers is 32 Ohms.
  
 I am experiencing no issues in driving the headphones that I have.  In fact, I'm currently having a* "Well color me surprised"* as I also have a Schiit Asgard I amplifier.  I'm going back and forth between them and am finding the Vali quite a good performer.  Seriously.  There are differences in the sound that I hear.  But, it's not like the Asgard I completely speeds away and takes the cake.  In fact, both amps feature their own unique differences.  But, the Vali, for the $119 price tag should make a few people stand up and take notice.
  
 I'm only experiencing the microphonics on startup and it lasts about 45 seconds as noted.  I haven't opened the case to check if the tubes are pressed in all the way or not, yet.  Soon.  I will soon do that task.  Also, might apply some Dynamat under the lid of the Vali to see how effective it is at damping any sounds / vibrations.  I have some RTV silicone, too, and will apply a small bead on the tops of the tubes to see how effective this "fix" is.  Finally, I also have some acoustic foam (AcoustiPack) that's designed to line the insides of computer cases to quiet them a bit.  I'd have to see whether this might be effective when installed under the lid of the Vali.
  
 I'm the 2nd owner of the Vali.  Thus, no direct warranty support for me.  I'm open to modding anything ... just as it says next to my avatar.


----------



## wje

OK.  I realize my last post was only 42 minutes ago (plus a bit over 20 minutes to handle this write-up).  But, when it comes to modding, I really have my Schiit together. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As follows ...
  
 The right tool for the job.  A semi-good precision screwdriver that has about 6 different sizes and types of bits.  I've used those smaller precision screwdriver sets that you can buy for a buck or two, but they can never give you enough torque when needed.  In my case, investing the $8.00 or $9.00 was a good investment considering how much use I've gotten from the indicated tool.
  

  
  
  
 Location of the screws to be removed from the casing (green arrows).  Then, slide the case forward (blue arrow).
  

  
  
  
 Looking inside the case, revealed that the tubes were lifted up to nearly a 45 degree angle (as indicated by position of green arrow).  This picture shows the tubes, after being pressed back down - carefully and with covering my finger with a paper towel to avoid getting any oil or debris from my fingers onto the tubes.
  

  
  
  
 With the tubes pressed down onto the white adhesive foam pieces, I realized the tubes were actually gripping quite well. However, suspecting that future climate changes between heat and cold could cause the foam to lose the grip once again.  Additionally, one can see when the amp is suspended in its comfy foam grips and carefully packaged in the box, there still will be a lot of movement and jiggling as the amp gets shipped to its destination.  As suggested earlier, applying a small bit of RTV silicone on the tube would work to dampen it a bit.  So, I actually performed two goals at once.  Using a toothpick, I tried as carefully as I could to apply the silicone to the sides of the tubes, while also securing them a bit better to the sides of the white foam pieces.
  

  
  
  
 Carrying forward with some thoughts about dampening the case, I applied 4 squares of Dynamat to the inside of the lid of the case.  I kept the Dynamat at least 3/8" from the sides as you want to ensure there is enough clearance for when you put the lid back on, the Dynamat won't get in the way of the lid resting on the metal sides and back that are folded over to facilitate holding the lid in place and providing screw holes to attach the screws properly into the case.
  

  
  
  
 Finally, after placing the lid back on by sliding it into place to ensure the LED slipped back through the hole, as well as clearing the volume knob, and the headphone jack, I placed the 4 screws back into position and flipped the amp over.  On the bottom of the amp, I applied 4 more squares of Dynamat to work at dampening the rest of the case, and just below where the PCB board is mounted inside the amplifier case itself.
  

  
  
  
 Everything is done, and the amp is placed back into service.  The result?  Holy Schiit.  The microphonics issue was resolved 98% (not 100% precise on that percentage though).  Seriously, the microphonics were greatly reduced to the point where I only noticed a very faint ring that could be heard through the headphones, and this went away in about 30 seconds.  With my headphone still on my head and the music not playing yet, I used my fingers and tapped on top of the amp case.  Again, just a faint ring would make its way out, then disappear in 30 seconds.  That's it.  Greatly, greatly improved.
  
 Normally, when I'm applying changes based upon some previous analysis, I'll just perform one change at a time, then perform a series of observations to determine the effectiveness of the change.  However, given the number of possibilities in this case, I moved ahead and performed the whole she-bang in one modding session.  I'm not sure which was the most effective, buy it would seem plausible that the silicon combined with getting the tubes back into their appropriate resting position was quite likely the mod to focus on.  The rest, however, are there to augment the rest of the modification to ensure nearly every angle of suspected issue was addressed.
  
 Finally, I'd like to give credit to the previous posters who shared a lot of useful information that allowed me to study this process, get the amp properly taken apart and address the issue.  Again, this was a result of more than a few members and their previous posts, and for that, the thanks should go to them, too.  This is what's great about the forum community here.  The collaboration is what allows us to take a good product and make it great.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## karlsonklam

~CooL - did you notice if the top had any tendency to ring when tapped before the Dynamat application?  is there capacitor coupling from the triode-tied tube to its next stage?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

imackler said:


> So anyone heard the Vali w/ both the HD600 and HD650? Which is the better combo with the Vali?


 

 600 (or 580 Jubilee like a 600) but 650 do work very well with Vali. My AKG240DF have also come alive however the Sony MA900 aren't my favourite match on this amp.


----------



## Rossliew

I'm currently listening to the HD650 with the Vali and Modi. Using my laptop running Foobar as a source (with lossy files, unfortunately), the HD650 sounds pretty good. In fact, i believe the pairing is very synergistic, something along the lines of "brightish digital tunes" + "warm signature of the HD650" = Great results! 
  
 As a comparison, with my analog front end i.e. TT to the Vali, the Grado SR80i sounds like a better match.


----------



## ame5051

I truly can't believe the Vali cost what it did. I am using it with a pair of stock Q701s and the Modi, and the sound is truly stunning irrespective of price. The sound was full, and the slight shrillness in the treble was nonexistent. As for the ringing issue, I have the Vali on my PC desk and if I hammer the desk with a fist, take the headphone jack in or out, or adjust the volume, I hear nothing whatsoever; it's only when I tap the chassis hard with my nails that I get a very faint ring that dies out completely in about 3-4 seconds. Mine might be the exception, but in any case, I am absolutely thrilled with this thing, and would wholeheartedly recommend it.


----------



## UmustBKidn

If I may offer an opinion, in response to several who wonder whether to get Magni or Vali ...
  
 Disclaimer: I do not own a Vali, but I do own another brand of hybrid tube/ss amp, that is by all accounts, inferior.
  
 What sounds best is _always _going to be what sounds best _to you_, on _your _setup, with _your _ears. All opinions are subjective. Even the best of them. Of course, if it were that easy, you'd just buy both amps and be done with it. What you're hoping for though, is someone to save you the expense of that little experiment (which will cost you precisely $99 or $119 dollars plus tax and shipping, depending on the outcome).
  
 To be fair, no one can really answer that question. You need to try it for yourself. Really, we could all be wrong. No one knows your ears but you. And the ears are one of the least-discussed components in the audio chain.
  
 That being said, in my experience, there is a distinct difference between a Budget-Fi solid state amp, and a Budget-Fi hybrid amp. IMO it's the same sort of difference that you'll find discussed between higher priced solid state and hybrid amps. The solid state amps are usually more clinical sounding, more accurate, less lively, but more precise. The amps with tubes in them sound less clinical, usually "warmer" (which I interpret as to mean more and realistic mid range), but less accurate, more lively, and less precise.
  
 Even worse, different amps sound better or worse with different music. And so do different cans. There are a plethora of variables. So a question like this is much harder to answer than it might seem.
  
 Which sounds better? I can find examples of both cases. Some people think solid state is best, because they don't like to color their music. Others really enjoy a nice tube sound, and are less concerned with precision.Some people, myself included, like to use both, depending on what music we're listening to at the moment.
  
 Personally, it is my humble opinion that you really need to try both, at least once in your lifetime. You will never really know which type of amp you like better, with your music, until you try both of them for yourself. None of us here can tell you which one you're going to like better. Honestly, I think you'll like both - but in different circumstances (e.g. with different music or different cans). For the extra $99 or $119 bucks, it's just too easy to own both.


----------



## yourboss

ame5051 said:


> I truly can't believe the Vali cost what it did. I am using it with a pair of stock Q701s and the Modi, and the sound is truly stunning irrespective of price. The sound was full, and the slight shrillness in the treble was nonexistent. As for the ringing issue, I have the Vali on my PC desk and if I hammer the desk with a fist, take the headphone jack in or out, or adjust the volume, I hear nothing whatsoever; it's only when I tap the chassis hard with my nails that I get a very faint ring that dies out completely in about 3-4 seconds. Mine might be the exception, but in any case, I am absolutely thrilled with this thing, and would wholeheartedly recommend it.




Your opinion is only worth anything if you have heard at least a few other hybrid tube amps in a similar price range. And only if you have done it with the same setup. Preferably side by side.It makes no sense to compare apples to oranges.

No offense but without a scientific approach things get derailed.


----------



## ame5051

Very presumptuous to think I haven't tried the Q701s with other amps and setups more and less expensive than this Mr. Psychic, but in any case I still stand by the fact this is the best I've heard them sound, that and the fact that the characteristic shrillness in the treble was all but nullified made me think that was worth pointing out, especially given the low price of this amp, and the fact that many people have problems finding a good match for these cans. Scientific approach - LOL. For the most part opinions on audio equipment are extremely subjective, mine is no different.


----------



## yourboss

You didn't answer my question. Which hybrid tube amps have you heard? Other than vali. I don't care about ss or full tube amps. And I hope they fall in the $90-150 range only.


----------



## jaywillin

wje said:


> OK.  I realize my last post was only 42 minutes ago (plus a bit over 20 minutes to handle this write-up).  But, when it comes to modding, I really have my Schiit together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i do believe i'm going to give my vali the same treatment !
 nicely done !


----------



## Makiah S

jaywillin said:


> i do believe i'm going to give my vali the same treatment !
> nicely done !


 
 wait a week first
  
 I just tapped mine about 6-7 times and I didn't hear much either...  It may be the newer models have the mircophonic issue solved


----------



## jaywillin

mshenay said:


> wait a week first
> 
> I just tapped mine about 6-7 times and I didn't hear much either...  It may be the newer models have the mircophonic issue solved


 

 jason said somewhere that they were changing the adhesive being used, while my microphonic noise isn't real bad, i did take the case top off and the tubes were at the 45* angle, i pushed them down, but the silicone and dynamet could help with the microphonics i still have, i tell you i really love this little beast, i'm listening with my rs1i's at the moment, and it also drives my lcd2's and sounds great !


----------



## karlsonklam

Oatley's starved tube/IC headphone amp kit might be fun for someone  - http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/6418-Tube-Preamp-Headphone-Kit/


----------



## wje

jaywillin said:


> i do believe i'm going to give my vali the same treatment !
> nicely done !




Jay, my man, thank you. It gets a bit crowded when a whole post with pictures gets quoted. There are some good options, though. One can respond back just quote the text, or use the spoiler tag to conceal the text and pics of the post you are quoting or responding to. This prevents members from having to scroll through a long and repetitive post to see the next active one. But, it's all good.

I have a few more thoughts on a phase 2 of some additional mods that I would like to apply to the underside of the PCB and will get started on those tonight.

More good stuff to come ...


----------



## jaywillin

wje said:


> Jay, my man, thank you. It gets a bit crowded when a whole post with pictures gets quoted. There are some good options, though. One can respond back just quote the text, or* use the spoiler tag to conceal the text and pics of the post you are quoting* or responding to. This prevents members from having to scroll through a long and repetitive post to see the next active one. But, it's all good.
> 
> I have a few more thoughts on a phase 2 of some additional mods that I would like to apply to the underside of the PCB and will get started on those tonight.
> 
> More good stuff to come ...


 
 but, alas, i have not yet learned that secret, that sorcery !! , lol
 seriously, how do you apply the spoiler thing ??


----------



## wje

umustbkidn said:


> If I may offer an opinion, in response to several who wonder whether to get Magni or Vali ...
> 
> Disclaimer: I do not own a Vali, but I do own another brand of hybrid tube/ss amp, that is by all accounts, inferior.
> 
> ...




I agree with essentially all you have said. I have had hybrid amps before, tho. In fact, the last one was the Little Dot I amp with an op-amp upgrade and the tubes were upgraded to some special Voshkod tubes. While I did like that LD l+ combo, it still fell a bit short in sound performance compared to the LD I+ though. The Vali is quite a surprise though, and really has exceeded my expectations. I do not currently have the Magni, but have in the past. 

I still think that giving the Valid a try is well worth it though. I had claimed that the LD I+ would be the last hybrid amp I would buy as I would stick with solid state amps. But theVali w as quite an eye opener for me.


Much more music as well as various combinations to listen too though. Too much music. Too little time.


----------



## JoeKickass

karlsonklam said:


> Oatley's starved tube/IC headphone amp kit might be fun for someone  - http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/6418-Tube-Preamp-Headphone-Kit/


 
  
 Thanks for the good read!
  
 This is the part that most interested me however:
  
 "The valves are extremely microphonic and will "ring" if they are struck so rubber grommets are used to help damp the tubes. _This does work and removes all audible noise from mechanical vibrations._"


----------



## Makiah S

joekickass said:


> Thanks for the good read!
> 
> This is the part that most interested me however:
> 
> "The valves are extremely microphonic and will "ring" if they are struck so rubber grommets are used to help damp the tubes. _This does work and removes all audible noise from mechanical vibrations._"


 
 Neato!


----------



## Stapsy

yourboss said:


> Your opinion is only worth anything if you have heard at least a few other hybrid tube amps in a similar price range. And only if you have done it with the same setup. Preferably side by side.It makes no sense to compare apples to oranges.
> 
> No offense but without a scientific approach things get derailed.


 
  
 Last time I checked this is the Vali thread, not the compare the Vali to some other hybrid tube amps of a similar price thread.  At no point did ame5051 say that this was the best amp ever or any other such  nonsense.  He clearly stated his impressions of the Vali with his headphones.  If you wanted to know if he had heard other amplifiers you could have just asked instead of being so confrontational. 
  
 No offense, but you are the one who has derailed this thread with your stupid comment.
  
 Anyway, thanks for the impressions ame5051.  I have found the Vali to have the same effect on the treble of the HD800.  It is able to correct the tendency of the HD800 to get a little harsh.


----------



## GBechz

I've been reading this thread and considering getting Vali for some Mad Dogs. But I was in a local store recently and tried some Bowers & Wilkins P7. The store did not have any amplification, but the headphones showed reasonable potential. Can anyone comment on them paired with Vali?


----------



## UmustBKidn

joekickass said:


> Thanks for the good read!
> 
> This is the part that most interested me however:
> 
> "The valves are extremely microphonic and will "ring" if they are struck so rubber grommets are used to help damp the tubes. _This does work and removes all audible noise from mechanical vibrations._"


 
  
 Thank you. That's the article I was trying to find, some time ago when microphonics were being discussed. I saw those grommets on there and thought that would be a potential solution for the Vali. I could not put my hands on that link though. Glad you found it. Will be curious to hear if anyone tries this, and the outcome.


----------



## purrin

morpheusx said:


> Anyone tried Vali with low impedance headphone like mdr-1r, ESW-11, fidelio l1,l2, momentum ?


 
  
 Tried with MDR-1R. The amp's noise floor can be heard just a tiny bit. Otherwise no too shabby.


----------



## Redcarmoose

This thread is such a good read. Really the essence of HeadFi. Cheers to all.


----------



## wje

karlsonklam said:


> ~CooL - did you notice if the top had any tendency to ring when tapped before the Dynamat application?  is there capacitor coupling from the triode-tied tube to its next stage?


 
  
 Tapping on the top of the Vali can be an issue.  Hopefully, during our regular listening, we don't have to interface with the amp in such a manner.  Then again ...  Actually, if one needs to own an amp in a rough environment, then solid state should be the only option considered.  Plus, a rubber-ish case like the Bithead amps seem to have a rugged exterior.
  
 I've been reading the additional follow-ups on this thread and amp quite curious about the use of rubber grommets.  I may try that mod, too, to see what the results are.  It will be late though, as I'll be sequestered from 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. tonight.  I might be able to get by a Home Depot on the way home and check them out.  I'll grab measurements in a few moments on my way out the door.
  
 As much as I've cued into the sound of the Asgard I amplifier - which is quite good, by the way, the Vali just has something there which is quite unique in the sound.  Really unique.  My suggestion to Schiit.  Spend a bit more R&D for the Vali 2 and bump the price of $40.00 to cover the R&D and some additional small parts required and you'll truly have a solid killer of an amp for a screaming price.  For those who have noted having desks with glass tops, or some of not the most solid surfaces, I'm not surprised that you're experiencing such noise issues.  Before tightening things down on mine, I have it sitting on a 250 Lb. desk that really doesn't move at all.  But, at that time, I could wrap on the desktop and get the microphonics to start humming along.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## jim723

Great postings and really enjoy reading all the responses, except for a few harsh ones. I agree there is no need to criticize other people's opinions. We should appreciate their efforts for sharing their experience and knowledge.
  
 I just ordered a Vali from Schiit. Looking forward to trying it with some of the new headphones I just bought during the Black Friday sales.


----------



## yourboss

stapsy said:


> Last time I checked this is the Vali thread, not the compare the Vali to some other hybrid tube amps of a similar price thread.  At no point did ame5051 say that this was the best amp ever or any other such  nonsense.  He clearly stated his impressions of the Vali with his headphones.  If you wanted to know if he had heard other amplifiers you could have just asked instead of being so confrontational.
> 
> No offense, but you are the one who has derailed this thread with your stupid comment.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the impressions ame5051.  I have found the Vali to have the same effect on the treble of the HD800.  It is able to correct the tendency of the HD800 to get a little harsh.




Start reading before you post, for a start. He said it was the best for the money. And that it is a bargain. A person who is not stupid would infer that it has to be better than most at a similar price. How can he comment on that without experience with other hybrids at the same price point?


----------



## mcandmar

Just a thought in relation to microphonics, does it make any difference if the tubes are vertical or horizontal?    If i had one i would be tempted to drill two holes in the lid and stand them up vertically.


----------



## ssrock64

redcarmoose said:


> This thread is such a good read. Really the essence of HeadFi. Cheers to all.


 
 A lot of informative, subjective opinions peppered with tech talk and the occasional person who's offended by subjective opinions?


----------



## Tuco1965

Anyone using HD600s with a Vali?  Just wondering how they pair.


----------



## lostinthesauce

tuco1965 said:


> Anyone using HD600s with a Vali?  Just wondering how they pair.


 
http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch/?search=hd600&resultSortingPreference=recency&byuser=&output=posts&sdate=0&newer=1&type=all&containingthread%5B0%5D=685162&advanced=1


----------



## Xyzygy

One thing not to do regarding ringing: scratching your finger along the volume control. I thought I saw a smudge on the control and tried to scratch it away. R-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r....
  
 Still enjoying the Vali immensely, hooked up to an iFi iDAC and DT 770 or 880 pros, depending on environment.


----------



## akong

Hey all, 
  
 I've been looking for a tube amp for a while now, to get a taste of that purported magical tube warmth, and a Vali / Modi stack seems to be the ticket. I just have a couple of questions, since I'm new to the tube world: 
  
 I know that the Vali is a "hybrid" tube amp, whatever that means. How does it sound compared to, say, the Little Dot MkIII in terms in "tubiness" (i.e. rich mids, warmth, etc.)? 
  
 I've heard of 'tube rolling' with the Little Dot MkIII before, which to my understanding just means switching the tubes for a different sound. Is this possible with the Vali as well? 
  
 What exactly is the disadvantage to using Vali with low impedence dynamics like my Grados? 
  
 How well does Vali pair with the HE-400s? 
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## thegunner100

akong said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've been looking for a tube amp for a while now, to get a taste of that purported magical tube warmth, and a Vali / Modi stack seems to be the ticket. I just have a couple of questions, since I'm new to the tube world:
> 
> ...


 

 A friend of mine brought over his little dot mk iii and modi over two days ago and we did comparisons with the little dot and the vali, with the nfb-10es2 as the dac and the hd600s + hd800s as the headphones. Will comment on the two when I get back from dinner.


----------



## ejwiles

thegunner100 said:


> A friend of mine brought over his little dot mk iii and modi over two days ago and we did comparisons with the little dot and the vali, with the nfb-10es2 as the dac and the hd600s + hd800s as the headphones. Will comment on the two when I get back from dinner.


 
 Looking forward to it!


----------



## Solarium

So pretty much the same as the Vali. Has anyone done comparisons of the 2?


----------



## thegunner100

I did all of my comparing with the hd800 (anax 2.0 modded) while my friend used his hd600s (old black drivers). The little dot was equipped with the Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 tubes. Overall our impressions between the two were very similar; with me noticing more differences than he did. 
  
 Soundstage - It felt like the little dot had a little bit more depth to it than the vali, however, the vali was a little bit wider. The Vali's soundstage was more coherent, with the instruments and vocals filling the soundstage more appropiately. 
  
 Bass - The Vali was punchier, and also brought out more subbass than the little dot.
  
 Mids - The vali had more wetness to it than the little dot, despite it being a a hybrid compared to a OTL. The mids on the vali were more enjoyable than on the little dot.
  
 Treble - The vali was slightly brighter than the little dot and stood out more, due to the lively nature of the vali. It was also more detailed as well.
  
 Other comments - The vali was more dynamic and lively sounding whereas the little dot is the typical OTL tube amp with its warm sounding and smooth nature. However due to the smoothness, the amp was lacking dynamics. The bass and cymbals hit harder on the vali, which I felt was more true to the track's nature  The Vali was more revealing and transparent than the little dot and brings out more of your dac than the little dot does. It will scale better with your dacs than the little dot as well.


----------



## thegunner100

solarium said:


> So pretty much the same as the Vali. Has anyone done comparisons of the 2?


 

 No direct comparisons but based on my memory of it from the summer, the Aune T1 is pretty subpar.


----------



## wje

thegunner100 said:


> No direct comparisons but based on my memory of it from the summer, the Aune T1 is pretty subpar.


 
  
 I feel quite similar.  For the Aune T1, I personally couldn't use it as a DAC / Amp combination as there just wasn't a good chemistry going on there.  During the time that I had mine, I basically just used the DAC portion and paired it up with my Little Dot  I+ so I could tolerate it.  I hate to be coming down so hard on the Aune T1, but it's a device that I only had for about 2 weeks, and then was able to sell it locally.  To me, the Aune T1 could be selling for $50 and I still wouldn't bit for one again at that price.  Apologies if I had to be a bit blunt with my answer, but my experience with it wasn't memorable in a good way.  Others might have had a very different experience.
  
 Now, back to the Vali.  For me, I'm basically back to square one again.  When the RTV silicone was curing, the amp was working great - the microphonics were greatly reduced as reflected in my post.  However, as the RTV dried, I noticed that somehow the silicone didn't have the same effect once it hardened up a bit.  Plus, some of the white foam had started to pull away from the PCB board, which had me making my attempts to apply more RTV to hold things down and into place.   Then, taking a queue from the members who were talking about using grommets or "O" rings on the tubes, I was able to get some of the appropriate size on my way home.  Yes, I was the geek walking into Home Depot with the Vali PCB so I could ensure I would purchase the correct size of "O" rings.  Well, when I got home, I scraped the RTV off of the edge of the tubes where I had applied it over this past weekend.  I then was able to slip 3 "O" rings onto each tube, and carefully space them apart.  The result?  Not really improvement at all.  The microphonics are still there.  
  
 Now, I don't want to throw the Vali under the bus, nor out the window at this point in time.  The microphonics are there - noticed essentially only when you power the amp on, and then all goes quiet in about 30 seconds. Provided your amp is on a very stable surface, the changes of having any further issues with microphonics during your listening session are quite rare.  At the moment, my Vali is sitting on top of my Asgard and that seems to provide quite a good buffer to isolate the Vali a bit better and keep essentially all vibrations minimal, if at all.
  
 My advice is to do essentially as I stated in the previous paragraph.  Get the amp onto a solid base where you will be able to enjoy it.  Be patient for 30 seconds and allow the amp to properly power up and get into operating mode, where then the microphonics will slowly fade away so you can enjoy your music.  I personally think that the merits of the Vali and the quite nice sound it produces should not be overlooked.  I still can't believe the sounds I'm hearing from a $119 amplifier in the Vali.


----------



## ejwiles

thegunner100 said:


> I did all of my comparing with the hd800 (anax 2.0 modded) while my friend used his hd600s (old black drivers). The little dot was equipped with the Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 tubes. Overall our impressions between the two were very similar; with me noticing more differences than he did.
> 
> Soundstage - It felt like the little dot had a little bit more depth to it than the vali, however, the vali was a little bit wider. The Vali's soundstage was more coherent, with the instruments and vocals filling the soundstage more appropiately.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for posting this.  I'm considering getting one or both, and selling whichever I like least.  This will be my first foray into tubes, and I must admit I am at least interested in being able to roll.  Sounds like you would go for the Vali?  I'm thinking that's the direction I'm going to go.  Can't really lose for $119, and I've been really happy with Schiit's customer service.


----------



## K.T.

I recall some DIY vendor used to sell grommets made from a lossy vibration damping material. Might have been Partsconnexion or Michael Percy. I have some buried in my parts drawer somewhere. It was years ago, though, and PC doesn't carry anything like that currently.

I suspect these might work better than regular rubber grommets.

If anyone knows where to get these, it might be worth a try.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

wje said:


> I feel quite similar.  For the Aune T1, I personally couldn't use it as a DAC / Amp combination as there just wasn't a good chemistry going on there.  During the time that I had mine, I basically just used the DAC portion and paired it up with my Little Dot  I+ so I could tolerate it.  I hate to be coming down so hard on the Aune T1, but it's a device that I only had for about 2 weeks, and then was able to sell it locally.  To me, the Aune T1 could be selling for $50 and I still wouldn't bit for one again at that price.  Apologies if I had to be a bit blunt with my answer, but my experience with it wasn't memorable in a good way.  Others might have had a very different experience.
> 
> Now, back to the Vali.  For me, I'm basically back to square one again.  When the RTV silicone was curing, the amp was working great - the microphonics were greatly reduced as reflected in my post.  However, as the RTV dried, I noticed that somehow the silicone didn't have the same effect once it hardened up a bit.  Plus, some of the white foam had started to pull away from the PCB board, which had me making my attempts to apply more RTV to hold things down and into place.   Then, taking a queue from the members who were talking about using grommets or "O" rings on the tubes, I was able to get some of the appropriate size on my way home.  Yes, I was the geek walking into Home Depot with the Vali PCB so I could ensure I would purchase the correct size of "O" rings.  Well, when I got home, I scraped the RTV off of the edge of the tubes where I had applied it over this past weekend.  I then was able to slip 3 "O" rings onto each tube, and carefully space them apart.  The result?  Not really improvement at all.  The microphonics are still there.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, sorry I didn't see the talk about O-rings/grommets/etc earlier. We tried all of that (and a couple of other things, too) and they don't help appreciably with the microphonics. If they had, that's the way we would have gone. Believe it or not, we have a real engineering department here. 
  
 Why doesn't damping the tube make the microphonics better? Simple--the tube glass isn't ringing, it's the internal structure of the tube, which you cannot touch.
  
 The best solution would be a small antigravity device to float the tubes in open air, but short of that, the solution we arrived at is the best from a production standpoint. In happier news, though, we're now applying an additional, long-term noise sort on testing to weed out the unacceptable "ringers."


----------



## karlsonklam

fwiw - here's an opinion suggesting the operating point can have influence upon microphony  (I've not read it yet in depth) http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/152752-jan6418-microphony.html
  
 I've had octal tube 6SL7 RIAA preamps very microphonic - one 30 yrs ago by Bruce Moore plus a recent one with solid state CS and anode follower buffer for ripping lps - imo it sounds far more textured in timbre than IC based phono stages - it might get in trouble with loud playback if situated near speakers ;^)


----------



## Jason Stoddard

karlsonklam said:


> fwiw - here's an opinion suggesting the operating point can have influence upon microphony  (I've not read it yet in depth) http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/152752-jan6418-microphony.html
> 
> I've had octal tube 6SL7 RIAA preamps very microphonic - one recent one with solid state CS and anode follower butter for ripping lps - imo it sounds far more textured in timbre than IC based phono stages - it might get in trouble with loud playback if situated near speakers ;^)


 
 That's a different tube--operating points and microphony are completely different in the 6418. How do we know? We tried them.
  
 We also tried lots of different operating points on the 6088s, as well as running the heaters under-voltaged, and all the little things we've learned over the years about tubes. Remember, Mike Moffat was one of the guys who brought tubes back into audio--in the late 1970s. We've been doing this for a while...


----------



## karlsonklam

Mike's 6DJ8 cascode Theta phono preamp was about my favorite  - (I wasn't suggesting you guyz didn't have your Schiit together)


----------



## wje

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, sorry I didn't see the talk about O-rings/grommets/etc earlier. We tried all of that (and a couple of other things, too) and they don't help appreciably with the microphonics. If they had, that's the way we would have gone. *Believe it or not, we have a real engineering department here. *
> 
> Why doesn't damping the tube make the microphonics better? Simple--the tube glass isn't ringing, it's the internal structure of the tube, which you cannot touch.
> 
> The best solution would be a small antigravity device to float the tubes in open air, but short of that, the solution we arrived at is the best from a production standpoint. *In happier news, though, we're now applying an additional, long-term noise sort on testing to weed out the unacceptable "ringers."*


 
  
 Jason
  
 Thanks.  I never had any doubt that you would have some of the best real engineering that I have seen.  Your products clearly demonstrate it. I'm making an assumption from your last sentence that you're now applying a final step prior to releasing the Vali for shipping that works to resolve some of the noted issues?  If so, that sounds fabulous!  Seriously. * If you are open to work with me on updating the unit I have, I'd be happy as peaches. * As mentioned, though, the Vali is a great amp.  Beautiful sound.  Beautiful punchy bass ... yet providing enough on the top end to get some real cymbal action to come through for an appreciable listening experience.  The Lil' Vali has some characteristics that I've not been able to hear in some other mid-fi headphone amplifiers that cost 3, 4 or 5 times that of the Vali.
  
 I'm not sure which other amp that Schiit offers would provide a pleasing sound like the Vali.  The Asgard is nice.  Quite nice in fact, but it is a polite amp with a polite sound.  I'm not sure if the Valhalla or Lyr can offer the same punch and cymbal detail that I've described as a attribute of the Vali.  Since I'm getting nicely adjusting and loving the sound I hear, I'd be less inclined to spend more money for a sound that I might not fully appreciate and a sound that could potentially be too much different from that of what I can appreciate in the Vali.


----------



## swannie007

Just got my Vali when I got home today!! Opened it up and found one tube at about a 30 degree angle (hey, it shipped from CA. to Queensland, Australia!) so I took some paper towel and pushed it back down, put the rubber feet on it, plugged in some cans and fired her up. Holy Schiit!!! This little baby can sing!  Not getting any noticeable ringing and I love the detail without the the harshness(hey, I'm no audiophile with years of experience in describing the tonal qualities of equipment, I just know what I like and what sounds good to me so don't take me to task about the lack of technicalities in my description!).
 So far in the last three hours I have listened to this amp paired with a Modi dac and a pair of Q701's , a pair of custom Grado's with aluminium cups and upgraded drivers and right now with my HD650's.
 So far, I like it best with the HD650's but the other two are great as well. The clarity is amazing. Right now I am listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan (Tin Pan Alley) and it is some of the best sound I have ever heard! Now before you get your knickers in a knot, let me clarify that it is some of the best sound I have heard, that does not mean it is the best sound out there but to my ears, it is fantastic.
 I will pair the Vali with my Rotel  RDD06 dac as well as my Audio Engine D1 dac and see what that sounds like. Looking forward to doing some back to back comparisons in the next few days with a bunch of other cans I have.
 So, bottom line, I am a happy camper and must say that this is certainly some of the best money I have spent with this hobby! Thank you Schiit for the great products and also for pricing them at a level that makes them accessible to a lot of consumers who might otherwise not be able to enjoy the pleasure of such good sound.
 Happy holidays to all and enjoy your music.


----------



## JohnBal

swannie007 said:


> Just got my Vali when I got home today!! Opened it up and found one tube at about a 30 degree angle (hey, it shipped from CA. to Queensland, Australia!) so I took some paper towel and pushed it back down, put the rubber feet on it, plugged in some cans and fired her up. Holy Schiit!!! This little baby can sing!  Not getting any noticeable ringing and I love the detail without the the harshness(hey, I'm no audiophile with years of experience in describing the tonal qualities of equipment, I just know what I like and what sounds good to me so don't take me to task about the lack of technicalities in my description!).
> 
> 
> So far in the last three hours I have listened to this amp paired with a Modi dac and a pair of Q701's , a pair of custom Grado's with aluminium cups and upgraded drivers and right now with my HD650's.
> ...



 


Now that is what this hobby is all about! Enjoy you music! I need another piece of Schiit for the holidays myself.


----------



## wje

Swannie007,
  
 What serial number does yours have on the back?  Also, the ringing issue is not an on-going item that remains present while you listen to music.  It initially only appears for about the first 30 seconds after powering up the amp.  In this case, that is just the issue with the minor microphonics playing their effects.  In my case, it is present as I've clicked on the power switch in the back of the amp - thus, moving it slightly to activate the microphics item and creating a small ring - small, but clears up in about 30 seconds.
  
 Also, for the others, here's a quick picture of the tubes with the "O" rings in place.


----------



## swannie007

Hey wje,
 The serial # on mine is 00184.  I just treat it like any other amp and it's just fine during normal operation. Perhaps it's the good snake oil they used for the units they shipped to Oz! Cheers.


----------



## thegunner100

ejwiles said:


> Thanks for posting this.  I'm considering getting one or both, and selling whichever I like least.  This will be my first foray into tubes, and I must admit I am at least interested in being able to roll.  Sounds like you would go for the Vali?  I'm thinking that's the direction I'm going to go.  Can't really lose for $119, and I've been really happy with Schiit's customer service.


 

 I definitely prefer the vali with the hd800s and my friend really enjoyed the vali with his hd600s and said he would most likely purchase one. Really depends on the pair of headphones and dac you will be using. If your dac and headphones arent too resolving, you probably wont notice a huge difference between the two amps.


----------



## Makiah S

thegunner100 said:


> I did all of my comparing with the hd800 (anax 2.0 modded) while my friend used his hd600s (old black drivers). The little dot was equipped with the Sylvania Gold Brand 5654 tubes. Overall our impressions between the two were very similar; with me noticing more differences than he did.
> 
> Soundstage - It felt like the little dot had a little bit more depth to it than the vali, however, the vali was a little bit wider. The Vali's soundstage was more coherent, with the instruments and vocals filling the soundstage more appropiately.
> 
> ...


 
 that is so magical to hear! I've yet to try my Vali on my NFB 10ES2, I'm uber excited now. And I must admit... that sub bass HITS HARD... which shocked me! I'm very happy with my purchase! Also happier to hear it's brighter than a typical OTL... I like a few others... have to ask what upgrade is there from the Vali q.q hoping I won't have to break into the thousands <.<


----------



## thegunner100

mshenay said:


> that is so magical to hear! I've yet to try my Vali on my NFB 10ES2, I'm uber excited now. And I must admit... that sub bass HITS HARD... which shocked me! I'm very happy with my purchase! Also happier to hear it's brighter than a typical OTL... I like a few others... have to ask what upgrade is there from the Vali q.q hoping I won't have to break into the thousands <.<


 

 Well... It'll probably cost quite a bit to get an upg from the Vali. Mjolnir is a good choice for orthos, based on what i've read. Since I strictly use the hd800s, I am just waiting on a zana deux 
  
 I also finally bit the bullet on a b-stock gungnir usb gen 2 from schiit. I think that may be my end game dac, unless the yggdrasil proves to be REALLY good. But with the gungnir's upgradeability, I think I'll be safe. I'll comment on the gungnir + vali combo sometime next week. 
  
 After the gungnir and zana deux... I think i'm done. It's getting so hard to justify upgrading, with the steep diminishing returns. I met up with someone two days ago, with the master 7, lampizator gen 4, and the dna stratus. I unfortunately didn't get to try out my music because the USB drivers weren't working properly on my surface, but I might go back to his house sometime next year when I have the ZD + gungnir to compare. 
  
 Oh, and he was really impressed by the Vali + lampi + hd800 (anax 2.0) combo. He said he was hearing everything that he was used to hearing with his lampi/m7 + dna stratus combo.


----------



## eccom

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






wje said:


> Swannie007,
> 
> What serial number does yours have on the back?  Also, the ringing issue is not an on-going item that remains present while you listen to music.  It initially only appears for about the first 30 seconds after powering up the amp.  In this case, that is just the issue with the minor microphonics playing their effects.  In my case, it is present as I've clicked on the power switch in the back of the amp - thus, moving it slightly to activate the microphics item and creating a small ring - small, but clears up in about 30 seconds.
> 
> Also, for the others, here's a quick picture of the tubes with the "O" rings in place.


 
  


 For me the ringing is both on turning the amp on, and a "persistent" issue. It can be solved by turning the amp off, and then on again in my case. I've even experienced it to start ringing by itself so loud that I walked into the room to find the source of the squeal  Turns out I left it on and it started ringing.
  
 I do still enjoy it, it has very full sound and i do prefer it over my O2 or reciever with the HD650s. A great bass punch, which it turns out I've been missing all along.


----------



## Makiah S

thegunner100 said:


> Well... It'll probably cost quite a bit to get an upg from the Vali. Mjolnir is a good choice for orthos, based on what i've read. Since I strictly use the hd800s, I am just waiting on a zana deux
> 
> I also finally bit the bullet on a b-stock gungnir usb gen 2 from schiit. I think that may be my end game dac, unless the yggdrasil proves to be REALLY good. But with the gungnir's upgradeability, I think I'll be safe. I'll comment on the gungnir + vali combo sometime next week.
> 
> ...


 
 A solid state isn't the upgrade I''m looking for. I mean a tube upgrade


----------



## Binge

solarium said:


> So pretty much the same as the Vali. Has anyone done comparisons of the 2?


 
  
 I have both in my possession right now.  The Aune T1 is interesting but it is nothing like the Vali.  The Aune uses the tube as a filter for the DAC.  That being said it does not amplify a thing.  The amp (which is a mediocre solid state) in the Aune is much worse than the Vali depending on the pair.
  
 If you needed an amp/dac and you were on a budget I would not hesitate to buy the Aune for $110, but if you really want the Vali's class A tube front end then you should not compare it to the Aune at all and just get yourself a nice DAC to go with it.


----------



## Makiah S

eccom said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 btw did you get teh O Rings, or are you thinking about it? 
  
 I wonder if they would help for those of you still having ringing issues.
  
 I'm on a VERY wobbly desk atm, so a lot of very small but substitianl movements and no ringing on my Vali...


----------



## eccom

My right tube is a stinker, just have to live with it. As we can see from Jason's reply they're not dumb, of course they tried to dampen things.

It actually got worse when I reseated it into the foam, so for sure there's no one way to do it.

Being careful and using the software volume control (which I did anyways with my other amps) solves the problem.


----------



## 4nradio

swannie007 said:


> The clarity is amazing. Right now I am listening to *Stevie Ray Vaughan (Tin Pan Alley) *and it is some of the best sound I have ever heard! Now before you get your knickers in a knot, let me clarify that it is some of the best sound I have heard, that does not mean it is the best sound out there but to my ears, it is fantastic.


 
  
 Excellent choice of test material  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Do you have the MSFL version of the album that's made from the original master tapes? The _Tin Pan Alley_ track is awesome from that album, with the clarity of the album coupled with the Vali's strengths. 
  
 The Vali/HD800 (Anax) combo is causing me to go back through all my SRV material. Thanks to the Vali I'm enjoying these recordings like I've never heard them before.


----------



## 4nradio

(deleted)


----------



## wje

Do realize that there was some mention of 6088 tubes a bit earlier in this thread. If you perform a web search on 6088 tubes and microphonics, you'll see a lot of discussions in the DIY communities how such a tube has quite a few issues with such a tube. While I initially started to perform mods on mine it became more apparent that a solid fix for some of the microphonics issues was not nearly such an easy fix.

With that being said, I don't sense too much frustration, as to do so would be without merit. For me, I realize this is a very small issue to live with and even that is quickly offset when one hears the beautiful sounds it produces.


----------



## thegunner100

Well, I spent a little more time with the vali and hd600 combo today and it actually doesn't seem to be as bad as I thought it was initially when i wrote this. I think it's mainly because I'm just really used to how the hd800s sound, and the hd600s feel very closed in and upfront in comparison. It's a fine combo. 
  
 Curious to hear how the gungnir will change things around with the vali.


----------



## Solarium

I'm loving my Vali, but it's just really a b1tch to unplug the 2 RCA cables from my sound card to reconnect my desktop speaker cables every time I don't want to use my HP's.
  
 To get pre-outs I pretty much have to upgrade to Lyr, which would be another $300.
  
 I'm thinking of trying out a Fiio E09K, since that has a pre-amp out and it's pretty affordable. Will I notice a significant deterioration of SQ from the Vali to the E09k, using my HD650's?
  
 Also, is there a way to get pre-outs via another source besides an amp unit... like something that can be used with a Vali?


----------



## thegunner100

solarium said:


> I'm loving my Vali, but it's just really a b1tch to unplug the 2 RCA cables from my sound card to reconnect my desktop speaker cables every time I don't want to use my HP's.
> 
> To get pre-outs I pretty much have to upgrade to Lyr, which would be another $300.
> 
> ...


 

 Why not just get a RCA splitter? Something like these would do, or even the cheap monoprice ones:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-splitter-female-15-24cm-cable/dp/B000GUSQJG
 http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-adapter-male-female-assembly/dp/B0009MFRW0
 http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xrca-1x2
 https://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042904&p_id=7186&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Solarium

thegunner100 said:


> Why not just get a RCA splitter? Something like these would do, or even the cheap monoprice ones:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-splitter-female-15-24cm-cable/dp/B000GUSQJG
> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-adapter-male-female-assembly/dp/B0009MFRW0
> ...


 
 Won't that deteriorate the sound quality? I read somewhere that if I use splitters it increases the resistance or something and lessen the amplification.


----------



## thegunner100

solarium said:


> Won't that deteriorate the sound quality? I read somewhere that if I use splitters it increases the resistance or something and lessen the amplification.


 
  
 I think it has been mentioned earlier in this thread, when people wanted to split the modi's signal to the magni and vali: no loss in SQ.


----------



## Solarium

thegunner100 said:


> I think it has been mentioned earlier in this thread, when people wanted to split the modi's signal to the magni and vali: no loss in SQ.


 
 Would it work in the same way when I split signals from a sound card as well? I'm presuming it's a yes if it's the same concept as a Modi as a DAC.
  
 BTW, how's http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Ultra-Performance-Y-Adapter-MKII/dp/B000WLZSGS/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1387315517&sr=8-16&keywords=RCA+Y+splitter ?
  
 I'm also using http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=2864&seq=1&format=2 for my speaker and cable to run from the DAC to amplifier. The physical quality of these cables are pretty poor, will it make a difference in getting higher end ones?
  
 I've done a lot of home theater research and found most overpriced monster cable crap don't give any better visuals, especially via digital sources like HDMI or DVI, but do RCA cables matter?


----------



## thegunner100

solarium said:


> Would it work in the same way when I split signals from a sound card as well? I'm presuming it's a yes if it's the same concept as a Modi as a DAC.


 

 Yep, it should work the same way. Give it a try, you don't have much to lose if you buy it from monoprice.


----------



## Binge

solarium said:


> Would it work in the same way when I split signals from a sound card as well? I'm presuming it's a yes if it's the same concept as a Modi as a DAC.
> 
> BTW, how's http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Ultra-Performance-Y-Adapter-MKII/dp/B000WLZSGS/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1387315517&sr=8-16&keywords=RCA+Y+splitter ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those monoprice cables are a good value and performance as long as they are not damaged.


----------



## live audio

GLS Audio is another choice for inexpensive cables. They seem a little nicer than monoprice. I use them for stage use. I have employed Y-adapters on stage and in studio for years without any SQ issues. 
I just ordered a Vali for use primarily with k701s. From what I read this should make a good combination. My sources will be mostly analog. I might get the Modi for use with digital recordings, but I may save for a different dac. Still deciding.


----------



## swannie007

johnbal said:


> swannie007 said:
> 
> 
> > Just got my Vali when I got home today!! Opened it up and found one tube at about a 30 degree angle (hey, it shipped from CA. to Queensland, Australia!) so I took some paper towel and pushed it back down, put the rubber feet on it, plugged in some cans and fired her up. Holy Schiit!!! This little baby can sing!  Not getting any noticeable ringing and I love the detail without the the harshness(hey, I'm no audiophile with years of experience in describing the tonal qualities of equipment, I just know what I like and what sounds good to me so don't take me to task about the lack of technicalities in my description!).
> ...


 
 We all need more Schiit for the holidays!


----------



## swannie007

4nradio said:


> Excellent choice of test material
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 4nradio, I really can't remember what version it is. I think it was a download from iTunes but can't really remember. I am using my MacPro as a source running iTunes with BitPerfect. Cheers.


----------



## Makiah S

solarium said:


> Won't that deteriorate the sound quality? I read somewhere that if I use splitters it increases the resistance or something and lessen the amplification.


 
 if you use a spiltter from ur dac to the amp, the amp is going to get a weaker signal from teh dac. I doubt the loss in quality is audible... at least not with the Modi and Vali
  
 the benifit is higher end Dacs also have more output. Audio GD espically, even the low end models have at least 2 rca outs, more if you want more [they also have ACSS outs for use with Audio GD amps] 
  
 For example I got my Audio GD dac, not just for the dac but for the increase in inputs and out puts. I have a TV tthat runs SpDif out into my Dac, and I now have 2 amps. So the Audio GD I have [old model less I/o] has like 3 inputs and 3 outputs, and it sounds better. So connetivity is better with high end dacs as well. espically if your connecting multiple devices to one unit 
  


binge said:


> Those monoprice cables are a good value and performance as long as they are not damaged.


 
 YES, I use Mono Price cables. They are very find indeed, heck I went and bought $50 Coaxial RCA's from my Local Radio Shack and compared to the mono price it was no differeance... GRANTED Radio Shak is not the GO TO place for cables but honestly... mono price rcas are just fine! I would say don't start upgrading cables till you got ur end game amp, dac and headphones xD


----------



## Wallboy

Got my Vali/Modi today, both tubes seem to be laying flat, and I hear the microphonics through my K701's when I scratch on the volume knob in the left channel for like 15 seconds, but it's insanely faint, and compared to the noise i was getting from my soundcard before it's nothing. You guys who only have your volume up to 10 o'clock must have really sensitive cans or something. I can get up to 3 o'clock on many of the songs I've listened to before through my pa2v2 before I consider it "loud". Maybe thats just me lol. But I will let this Vali burn in before giving impressions.


----------



## TheGame

solarium said:


> I'm loving my Vali, but it's just really a b1tch to unplug the 2 RCA cables from my sound card to reconnect my desktop speaker cables every time I don't want to use my HP's.
> 
> To get pre-outs I pretty much have to upgrade to Lyr, which would be another $300.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm in the same situation except I went from the E09k to the Vali. I was looking into splitters as well, but found a simple solution if your speakers have it. What I did was use the RCA outs from my soundcard (Titanium HD) to the Vali and used a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect my speakers from the headphone out jack of the titanium HD using the AUX in on the speakers. If your speakers support a 3.5mm aux in you can try that. Or you can go with a 3.5mm to RCA cable and connect the 3.5mm end of the cable to your headphone out of your soundcard, and the RCA ends of the cable to the RCA inputs of the Vali with a cable like this http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5597&seq=1&format=2 then you can use the RCA outs of your soundcard for your speakers.
  
 Keep in mind I do not know what type of soundcard you are using or if using your headphone out jack to the Vali would make any difference in audio quality. Just some suggestions if you do not want to go the splitter route.
  
 P.S. The FiiO E09K is actually a pretty good solid state amp for the price IMO. Sounded good with my HD650's


----------



## ryant

I'm pumped! I just ordered a modi vali combo! I will give my thoughts on it with the he-300's as well once I get it.


----------



## jaywillin

thegame said:


> I'm in the same situation except I went from the E09k to the Vali. I was looking into splitters as well, but found a simple solution if your speakers have it. What I did was use the RCA outs from my soundcard (Titanium HD) to the Vali and used a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect my speakers from the headphone out jack of the titanium HD using the AUX in on the speakers. If your speakers support a 3.5mm aux in you can try that. Or you can go with a 3.5mm to RCA cable and connect the 3.5mm end of the cable to your headphone out of your soundcard, and the RCA ends of the cable to the RCA inputs of the Vali with a cable like this http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5597&seq=1&format=2 then you can use the RCA outs of your soundcard for your speakers.
> 
> Keep in mind I do not know what type of soundcard you are using or if using your headphone out jack to the Vali would make any difference in audio quality. Just some suggestions if you do not want to go the splitter route.
> 
> P.S. *The FiiO E09K is actually a pretty good solid state amp for the price IMO. Sounded good with my HD650's*


 
 the e09k has a pre-out, and a fixed line out, when i had the fiio, i had the pre outs going to my speakers, and the line out fed a little dot 1+, worked great, no wires to change when going between speakers and headphones, so you effectively have a solid state headphone amp, with two gain settings, a pre controlling your speakers, and the line out to a tube amp


----------



## Makiah S

jaywillin said:


> the e09k has a pre-out, and a fixed line out, when i had the fiio, i had the pre outs going to my speakers, and the line out fed a little dot 1+, worked great, no wires to change when going between speakers and headphones, so you effectively have a solid state headphone amp, with two gain settings, a pre controlling your speakers, and the line out to a tube amp


 
 YO dude your almost to one year


----------



## jaywillin

mshenay said:


> YO dude your almost to one year


 

 wow, hadn't thought about it, time flies !!    
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  i've come a long way, when i just saw your post, i was listening to this with my wadia 121-->vali--> LCD2.2's !


----------



## TheGame

I noticed with the Schiit Vali that even when it is turned off, the power supply (the plug that goes into the outlet) stays warm even with the unit turned off. Is this normal and if it is, why would the plug be warm even with the Vali turned off?


----------



## Solarium

thegame said:


> I'm in the same situation except I went from the E09k to the Vali. I was looking into splitters as well, but found a simple solution if your speakers have it. What I did was use the RCA outs from my soundcard (Titanium HD) to the Vali and *used a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect my speakers from the headphone out jack of the titanium HD using the AUX in on the speakers*. If your speakers support a 3.5mm aux in you can try that. Or you can go with a 3.5mm to RCA cable and connect the 3.5mm end of the cable to your headphone out of your soundcard, and the RCA ends of the cable to the RCA inputs of the Vali with a cable like this http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5597&seq=1&format=2 then you can use the RCA outs of your soundcard for your speakers.
> 
> Keep in mind I do not know what type of soundcard you are using or if using your headphone out jack to the Vali would make any difference in audio quality. Just some suggestions if you do not want to go the splitter route.
> 
> P.S. The FiiO E09K is actually a pretty good solid state amp for the price IMO. Sounded good with my HD650's


 
 ABSOLUTELY PURE GENIUS! I can't believe I never thought of this idea before, and since I have to use a Y-splitter to connect my 3.5mm desktop speaker aux cable to my 2 RCA line-out on the Titanium HD anyway, now I can just plug the 3.5mm plug directly into the headphone jack.
  
 Man this way works better than even splitting the 2 RCA plugs into my amp and speakers, possibly avoiding any kind of SQ degradation (will there be any?)
  
 Is there any difference in SQ from the desktop speakers using the headphone jack vs the line-out jack? Do they use the same DAC (I'm assuming yes)? I may have noticed the sound coming out of the speakers more "closed in" than before, perhaps it's my imagination?


----------



## TheGame

I haven't noticed a difference in sound quality from my speakers using the headphone jack vs using the line outs via RCA. I am using Creative Gigaworks T3 speakers. I _assume_ the signal is the same coming from the headphone out as the line outs except it is a stereo signal vs the line outs which are separate left and right channels. If your speakers are powered, then the sound quality should be the same and the power would be coming from your speakers built-in amp.  And yes I believe they use the same DAC. I believe the Titanium HD's DAC is only bypassed when using the optical out.
  
 But with using the cable I linked to above, the 3.5mm end of the cable will transmit the stereo signal from the headphone out and split it into the left and right channels of the RCA ends of the cable to left and right channels respectively to your speakers.
  
 Like I said, I haven't personally noticed any difference in SQ at all using this method.


----------



## Solarium

thegame said:


> I haven't noticed a difference in sound quality from my speakers using the headphone jack vs using the line outs via RCA. I am using Creative Gigaworks T3 speakers. I _assume_ the signal is the same coming from the headphone out as the line outs except it is a stereo signal vs the line outs which are separate left and right channels. If your speakers are powered, then the sound quality should be the same and the power would be coming from your speakers built-in amp.  And yes I believe they use the same DAC. I believe the Titanium HD's DAC is only bypassed when using the optical out.
> 
> But with using the cable I linked to above, the 3.5mm end of the cable will transmit the stereo signal from the headphone out and split it into the left and right channels of the RCA ends of the cable to left and right channels respectively to your speakers.
> 
> Like I said, I haven't personally noticed any difference in SQ at all using this method.


 
 Just noticed your sig... pretty much exactly the same setup as mine, as I will be returning the Magni and keeping the Vali. I'm using Klipsch iFi desktop 2.1 speakers, which are self-powered. I originally bought these
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DL2OVE/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 x2
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005QXXM/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 x1
  
 to basically hook up both the desktop speakers and amp together. I mean, if there's no loss in SQ with connecting the speakers directly to the headphone out jack there's no point of spending money on these cables and risking lower amp signal from splitting the line-out.
  
 Any recommendations on RCA cables that you use? I bought monoprice ones originally, but the gold plated connectors were very poorly made and I have a hard time connecting to the RCA line-out on the Titanium HD. I then bought the acoustic research ones linked above, but then read about blue jeans cables. A 6 feet BJC RCA stereo cable with the flex jacket will cost me around $42... not sure if it's worth the cost.


----------



## TheGame

solarium said:


> Just noticed your sig... pretty much exactly the same setup as mine, as I will be returning the Magni and keeping the Vali. I'm using Klipsch iFi desktop 2.1 speakers, which are self-powered. I originally bought these
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DL2OVE/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 x2
> 
> ...


 

 Well to be honest, I am not an expert when it comes to cables. I have a low to mid-grade set of RCA cables that I use to connect the Vali to the Titanium HD's Line-Out RCA jacks with this cable http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-Go-45428-Sonicwave/dp/B0009JR3RA/ref=sr_1_9?s=audio-video-accessories&ie=UTF8&qid=1387437475&sr=1-9&keywords=rca+audio+cables
  
 As far as the stereo 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable, honestly I just use a cheap Radioshack cable I had lying around with my other cables and it works fine. I am sure you can get better stereo 3.5mm to 3.5mm cables if you want for better quality, but the cheap Radio Shack cable works fine for me. This one looks nice http://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Stereo-Audio-Cable-3-5mm/dp/B00DI88X32/ref=sr_1_56?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1387438627&sr=1-56&keywords=3.5mm+audio+cable
  
 If you're interested in mid-grade or high-grade cables, I am sure there are a lot of members here that know a lot more about cables than I do.
  
 As to not get off-topic with the Vali thread, you are more than welcome to PM me anytime to discuss your Titanium HD/Vali/Desktop Speaker setup and I'll gladly help you the best that I can.
  
 What I do is, when I am using my desktop speakers, I change the speaker output to 2.1 speakers in the creative console launcher and you can tell the difference even when using the headphone jack connected to your desktop speakers with a stereo 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable, but if you want to get a good 3.5mm to 3.5mm stereo cable or RCA cables you can ask for suggestions from more experienced members with more knowledge than me on cables.


----------



## UmustBKidn

thegame said:


> I noticed with the Schiit Vali that even when it is turned off, the power supply (the plug that goes into the outlet) stays warm even with the unit turned off. Is this normal and if it is, why would the plug be warm even with the Vali turned off?


 
  
 I would imagine this is true of most, if not all, of those devices that use those "wall wart" power supplies. The power switch is in the device being powered (the Vali in this case), and not in the power supply itself (the wall wart).
  
 Whether any power supply remains warm with the thing it's powering turned off, depends on where in the circuit that power is turned on and off. There is power being supplied to your Vali whether it is actively on or not. That's because the power supply is an external unit, and there is nothing controlling it from within the Vali. So whether your Vali is using the electricity being supplied to it or not, the power supply is still converting wall current into whatever voltage the Vali needs. And yes, that means it's still drawing power, and your electric bill is going up, ever so slightly, with the Vali off.
  
 To give a different example, suppose we were discussing a large home theater amplifier unit. Most of those have a power cord that plugs into the wall, and the power supply resides within the amplifier itself. A power supply is basically a large transformer with one side connected to the wall current, and the other side to a rectifier and filter capacitors, then the unit being powered. If you interrupt the wall current on the AC side of the transformer, then there will not be any power drawn to the unit while it is off. However, to accomplish that, you need a good sized relay that can withstand 120 or 220 volts (depending on your country), plus whatever current the transformer draws. That's a pretty good size device. If however, you are controlling power to the unit on the other side of the transformer (the device being powered), then you might not need such a large relay to switch power. A smaller relay means a cheaper device. However, it also means that you're paying to power the thing even when it's off.
  
 Every wall wart in your home is warm, whether the thing its powering is on or not (if that's any consolation). It's not just your Vali. It could just as easily be your Magni, or your computer speakers, or your DAC, or your telephone, answering machine, portable TV, the list is probably endless.
  
 One solution to this issue is to plug your wall warts into a power strip, and turn the power strip off when you're not using your devices. Then there won't be any "current vampires" robbing you of electricity.
  
 With today's electronic power meters on your house, it's really easy to see this happening. Go away for a weekend and turn everything off in your home. You'll be able to still see power being used, constantly. That little power draw is the sum total of all of those wall warts, or other devices in your home, that were designed to keep drawing power from the wall socket, even with the device turned off. This can be a substantial drain if you have a spouse, children, and all of you own a shopping cart full of electronic devices.
  
 For an even more interesting experiment, instead of just turning everything off, unplug everything from every wall socket in your house, and then go away for another weekend, and then examine your power drain at the local power company's website. You _should _see no power draw (and if you do, call an electrician, there's something wrong).


----------



## TheGame

Thank you for the great post and reply, I appreciate that and I learned something new! Thank you UmustBKidn


----------



## theOmni

I have an X-Fi Titanium-HD Card and an AKG Q701. Will the Schiit Vali play well with this setup?


----------



## TheGame

I am not sure how it will sound with your cans, but I know it sounds good with my Titanium HD and Sennheiser HD650's


----------



## Murdocderdon

I don´t know the Titanium but with the K701, Vali works really fine for me.


----------



## jmttdr

Anyone tried any HD 650's on it?


----------



## MattTCG

On the Vali? Yes. I thought that it was a good pairing. Good dynamics and bass punch. Vali has a nice touch of sparkle which works well with the 650.


----------



## jmttdr

matttcg said:


> On the Vali? Yes. I thought that it was a good pairing. Good dynamics and bass punch. Vali has a nice touch of sparkle which works well with the 650.


 
 Yeah, sounds good to me. I'm from the UK, and a Valhalla is £350 which is a lot. Due to importing I guess. May consider the Vali in this case, although irrelevant to sound quality, Schiit products look great too!


----------



## Makiah S

murdocderdon said:


> I don´t know the Titanium but with the K701, Vali works really fine for me.


 
  
  


jmttdr said:


> Yeah, sounds good to me. I'm from the UK, and a Valhalla is £350 which is a lot. Due to importing I guess. May consider the Vali in this case, although irrelevant to sound quality, Schiit products look great too!


 
 They look good and sound better! 
  
 And here's a fun story, the Vali has about 1/6'th the power of my NFB 10ES2 in balanced mode [maybe more maybe less] but... welp it sounds about 94%  as good <3 [although I'm still using the NFb dac]
  
 My point is... for the price the Vali imo kicks some serious tushie! It cost half as much as my Matrix M Stage and sounds better than my Matrix M Stage :O which was a warm solid state... yea a Hybrid Tube sounds BETTER than a Warm Solid State... I  SAID IT 
  
 ehm so that said... buy a Vali for your bright headphones! It's very awesome!


----------



## jim723

Just received the Vali last night and have tried it with several different headphones, including HD650 and HE400.
  
 I was a little surprise about the size of Vali. It is smaller than what it looked in the photos. I have never seen the Magni or Modi so I guess I didn't know how big these devices are.
  
 I was really impressed with the sound of Vali. I briefly compared Vali and Little Dot MK3 driving HD650. Vali was a little brighter than Little Dot which was great for HD650.. Although the bass sounded just a little bit punchier on the Little Dot.
  
 I was also surprised to find out that Vali worked very well with some of the low impedance headphones, such as ATH-ESW9. The ESW9 sounded wonderful on Vali, very solid bass, warm, fuller and sweet sound with decent soundstage. 
  
 I think I will be spending a lot of time this weekend listening to Vali. It is definitely the best headphone amp one could get for under $200.
  
 Big thanks to all the contributors to this thread and kudos to Schiit Audio for producing such a wonderful product.


----------



## Makiah S

jim723 said:


> Just received the Vali last night and have tried it with several different headphones, including HD650 and HE400.
> 
> I was a little surprise about the size of Vali. It is smaller than what it looked in the photos. I have never seen the Magni or Modi so I guess I didn't know how big these devices are.
> 
> ...


 
 agree'd... I had 3 amps all of which I paid $200 or less for [I got my M Stage for $215 but it came with 3 extra op Amps so :3 I'm calling it under 200]
  
 and compared to my last two hybrid tubes and my M Stage the Vali is very good! Better and cheaper than the previous mentioned amps! How ever the M Stage was better looking imo... but looks are moot for an amp... which one primarly uses to listen to music with


----------



## jmttdr

Can somebody explain to me what 'brighter' means in relation to the sound? (I'm new)
  
 I have my 650's in a freshly sealed Amazon box. I have two weeks off work to burn them in and decide whether I want to keep them or not. (or stick with my 595's)
  
 I have the Audioengine D1, but with the 650's I will add an amp. I just need to find out what I want first. A nice balance between the detail and warmth, but listening to them will dictate this. 
  
 ATM I have contemplated between Little dot iii vs Vali vs Valhalla.


----------



## thegunner100

"Bright - A sound that emphasizes the upper midrange/lower treble. Harmonics are strong relative to fundamentals."
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## jmttdr

thegunner100 said:


> "Bright - A sound that emphasizes the upper midrange/lower treble. Harmonics are strong relative to fundamentals."
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary


 
 Thanks!


----------



## karlsonklam

- its a great little amp - mine has not exhibited any noticeable microphonics, there's plenty of drive power - the cardboard packing cradle was ingenious - - the first DAC hooked is a Ross Martin -  I'm not satisfied with stock HE-300 - too dark/recessed * something in the treble seems weak -  -  my Pro 4aaT are mid-centric with too little bass & treble sparkle - EVO 681 is about the best overall and its a bit muted- its like an extended Goldilocks journey without active EQ through many headsets to find one that works most of the time.  ( * - my HE300 aren't yet burned in so will re-evaluate after some hours with Vali)


----------



## TheGame

jmttdr said:


> Anyone tried any HD 650's on it?


 

 Yes I use my HD650's with the Vali and personally I think they pair quite nicely. Of course this is only my opinion, but to me I think they sound great with the Vali.


----------



## mhamel

jmttdr said:


> Can somebody explain to me what 'brighter' means in relation to the sound? (I'm new)
> 
> I have my 650's in a freshly sealed Amazon box. I have two weeks off work to burn them in and decide whether I want to keep them or not. (or stick with my 595's)
> 
> ...


 
  
 The D1 pairs up well as a DAC into the Vali.   I can't speak for the HD650s, but I've listened through Beyer 990s, LCD-X, Mad Dogs and some semi-DIY headphones I put together, all sounded great through the combo.   Another benefit is that you can turn the volume up on the Vali and leave it there, then use the volume control on the D1 to adjust - no ringing from touching the volume control on the Vali if your setup is more prone to it with the Vali alone.
  
    -Mike


----------



## TheGame

jmttdr said:


> Can somebody explain to me what 'brighter' means in relation to the sound? (I'm new)
> 
> I have my 650's in a freshly sealed Amazon box. I have two weeks off work to burn them in and decide whether I want to keep them or not. (or stick with my 595's)
> 
> ...


 

 I use the HD650's with the Vali and really like them together. Alot of people consider the HD650 to be a "darker" sounding headphone, but for my tastes I love the sound. The Vali with the HD650's for my setup adds warmth to the lower mids, and to me the treble sounds good as well. Setups will vary, and it depends on your personal taste. A lot of people like the Valhalla with the HD650's too. I cannot say from personal experience, but from other posts that I have read, it seems the Little Dot MK III isn't the best matchup for the HD650's, but I am only going by other people's posts, not personal experience so I cannot say for sure. Vali in my opinion is an exceptional amp for the low price and like I said, I personally love it with my HD650's. The Valhalla may be a solid choice for them as well, but I have only read other people's opinion of them with the HD650's. seems most like that pairing as well. Just keep in Mind if you go the Valhalla route, the Valhalla is great for driving high impedance cans, but probably not the best choice if you are planning on using IEMs or low impedance headphones.


----------



## wje

mhamel said:


> The D1 pairs up well as a DAC into the Vali.   I can't speak for the HD650s, but I've listened through Beyer 990s, LCD-X, Mad Dogs and some semi-DIY headphones I put together, all sounded great through the combo.   Another benefit is that you can turn the volume up on the Vali and leave it there, then use the volume control on the D1 to adjust - no ringing from touching the volume control on the Vali if your setup is more prone to it with the Vali alone.
> 
> -Mike


 
  
 That's how I've been doing it, too.  I leave the volume at a fixed level on the amp and use the level control in Foobar for all adjustments.  I have the Beyerdynamic DT-880, and really enjoy the Vali with them at the moment.  The combination of the two provide for a seriously wide sound stage.  Plus, the low-end punch of the Vali really ratchets up the DT-880. 
  
 I had some thoughts on the Vali earlier today and the issue with some of the microphonic noise that has appeared for about 30 seconds as described by most users.  This isn't so bad as normally it will take me at least 30 seconds to get situated to where I'll be able to get into listening.  Additionally, there are hard-core tube amp owners who make claims that it takes about 30 minutes for the tubes to get warmed up and acclimated for the best sound.  I know for myself, 30 seconds isn't much and certainly, I wouldn't see myself waiting 30 minutes for tubes to get to their optimal level for sound quality.  There are exceptions, though.  If I did have to wait on the tubes that long, I'd probably go for marathon listening sessions and keep the tube amp on all weekend.


----------



## TheGame

Same here, I keep the Vali at a fixed volume and adjust volume with JRiver. After the initial turning on of the Vali and having about the same microphonics issues as most others for about 30 seconds, it's good to go, and as others stated, with leaving the volume fixed on the Vali and adjusting the volume with my music player, there is no need to touch the Vali after initially turning it on. Also, I was one of those people who had the tubes in the Vali angled up off of the adhesive. After following Jason and Nick's advice at Schiit and reading the useful comments here from others with the same issue, I pushed them back down and noticed a difference. I no longer have that constant low-pitch ringing in the left channel


----------



## thegunner100

Yeah... whenever I have to transport the Vali around, I usually have to open up the case and re-seat the tubes.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Has anyone tried a Vali with the Beyer DT770 / 250 ohm yet?


----------



## Rudiger

Hi,
  
 I post a question in this thread
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/670709/akg-new-headphone-k545/630#post_10086163
  
 (Magni is not powerful enough to feed properly AKG k550 ==> Do you think the Vali will do better ?)


----------



## jbarrentine

rudiger said:


> (Magni is not powerful enough to feed properly AKG k550 ==> Do you think the Vali will do better ?)


 
  

  
 I can't wait to hear what magical properties of the K550 make it impossible to drive.


----------



## Rudiger

I dont know (and I didn't say impossible, why do you say that ?) If you compare with more powerful amp i found a huge difference


----------



## Makiah S

jbarrentine said:


> I can't wait to hear what magical properties of the K550 make it impossible to drive.


 
  
  


rudiger said:


> I dont know (and I didn't say impossible, why do you say that ?) If you compare with more powerful amp i found a huge difference


 
  
  
 Seriously the K550 can be driven by a toaster oven, you do realize that amps sound differently, each are colored differently [or have a lack of color in a certian way] that said, it could be the Magni does not pair well with the K550, how ever... the K550 don't need a lot of power lol
  
 however you might like a tube with the k550


----------



## jaywillin

mshenay said:


> Seriously the K550 can be driven by a toaster oven, you do realize that amps sound differently, each are colored differently [or have a lack of color in a certian way] that said, it could be the Magni does not pair well with the K550, how ever... the K550 don't need a lot of power lol
> 
> *however you might like a tube with the k550 *


 
 especially the vali, lotsa power, i liked the 550 with the lyr


----------



## Rudiger

Thank you for your opinion, maybe I'm wrong ... This is probably the case if the k550 is deemed easy to drive. I would have to take the Magni home to really compare.
 And yes, maybe it's that the Magni does not pair well with the K550.
  
 To be clear, you find that the k550 has a good sound with the Vali ?


----------



## jmttdr

thegame said:


> I use the HD650's with the Vali and really like them together. Alot of people consider the HD650 to be a "darker" sounding headphone, but for my tastes I love the sound. The Vali with the HD650's for my setup adds warmth to the lower mids, and to me the treble sounds good as well. Setups will vary, and it depends on your personal taste. A lot of people like the Valhalla with the HD650's too. I cannot say from personal experience, but from other posts that I have read, it seems the Little Dot MK III isn't the best matchup for the HD650's, but I am only going by other people's posts, not personal experience so I cannot say for sure. Vali in my opinion is an exceptional amp for the low price and like I said, I personally love it with my HD650's. The Valhalla may be a solid choice for them as well, but I have only read other people's opinion of them with the HD650's. seems most like that pairing as well. Just keep in Mind if you go the Valhalla route, the Valhalla is great for driving high impedance cans, but probably not the best choice if you are planning on using IEMs or low impedance headphones.


 
  


mshenay said:


> They look good and sound better!
> 
> And here's a fun story, the Vali has about 1/6'th the power of my NFB 10ES2 in balanced mode [maybe more maybe less] but... welp it sounds about 94%  as good <3 [although I'm still using the NFb dac]
> 
> ...


 
 Got my 650's, they sound great straight from my D1 (flac). I'm not worried now, I think either way, if I go for the Vali of Little Dot MK3, I'll be happy!


----------



## Makiah S

rudiger said:


> Thank you for your opinion, maybe I'm wrong ... This is probably the case if the k550 is deemed easy to drive. I would have to take the Magni home to really compare.
> And yes, maybe it's that the Magni does not pair well with the K550.
> 
> To be clear, you find that the k550 has a good sound with the Vali ?


 
 I have no clue, I only owned my K550 for about a month and I only listened to it with Solid States. I however had a Matrix M Stage, which is imo a rather warm amp and I enjoyed it very much. I feel the Vali, while not as suitable for low Impedance headphones, does sound on par or better than the M Stage]


----------



## Misterrogers

rudiger said:


> Thank you for your opinion, maybe I'm wrong ... This is probably the case if the k550 is deemed easy to drive. I would have to take the Magni home to really compare.
> And yes, maybe it's that the Magni does not pair well with the K550.
> 
> To be clear, you find that the k550 has a good sound with the Vali ?


 
 You're right about listening to Magni in your system. There's so much subjective variance in an opinion with a different chain, hearing, preferences - you're really gonna want to hear it in your chain, your environment.


----------



## TheGame

jmttdr said:


> Got my 650's, they sound great straight from my D1 (flac). I'm not worried now, I think either way, if I go for the Vali of Little Dot MK3, I'll be happy!


 

 Yes the 650's are awesome IMO. Check out the Sennheiser HD650 Appreciation thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/197776/sennheiser-hd650-appreciation-thread, there is a lot of great information in the thread and you can ask other HD650 owners their thoughts on amp pairings with the HD650's. Enjoy your new cans!


----------



## Warmuth327

Is Vali supposed to be louder than Magni?  Just received my Vali and with my HE-400s, it is louder than my Magni.
  
 Perhaps my understanding is flawed, but doesn't the Magni have more power and a higher gain than the Vali?  Therefore, shouldn't the volume position need to be higher on the Vali and not lower?
  
 Thanks for the info....it's probably a different pot or something that differentiates it...would just like to know.
  
 Darren
  
 PS, for what it's worth on this later unit, can hardly get the Vali to ring.  Maybe 5 seconds on plug insert, nothing from tapping it...so quite happy.


----------



## K.T.

umustbkidn said:


> Has anyone tried a Vali with the Beyer DT770 / 250 ohm yet?




Yeah. Tried it. I have to say the DT770 250 ohm sounds MUCH better with the Vali than with the Magni. But even so, I can't listen to the DT770s for too long. Just not my cup of tea.

I find the DT770 to be unrefined and the treble too steely and rough. Probably my least favorite over the ear headphone that I paid a lot for. 

But if you like the DT770, I can recommend them with the Vali over the Magni by far.


----------



## Xyzygy

umustbkidn said:


> Has anyone tried a Vali with the Beyer DT770 / 250 ohm yet?


 
  
 Been listening to the Vali with DT 770s and an iFi iDAC about four hours a day for the past few weeks. Very, very enjoyable.


----------



## wje

warmuth327 said:


> PS, for what it's worth on this later unit, can hardly get the Vali to ring.  Maybe 5 seconds on plug insert, nothing from tapping it...so quite happy.


 
  
 If you could share, what is your serial number for your Vali?  Thanks.
  


xyzygy said:


> Been listening to the Vali with DT 770s and an iFi iDAC about four hours a day for the past few weeks. Very, very enjoyable.


 
  
 Similar situation with me, but just have the oDAC in the chain.  I've been using the DT-880 a bit more, though. I wanted to write up a bit better impression / comparison between the Vali and my Asgard v.1, though. But with my DT-880, I've found that the 880s respond well to a bit of an EQ cut using Foobar, so I have a preset created for the adjustment.  My Asgard v.1, though, is an amp that doesn't need to have the EQ invoked as with the Vali.  With the Vali, the range is extended a bit further, or at least that is my impression.  As to the bass, both amps are good in that area, but the Vali takes it further buy a notch or two by having the bass appear with a bit more punch.  Interesting signature.
  
 The Asgard v.1 is an amp that would probably pertain a bit better to someone who is a bit more of an audiophile, but the Vali, appealing to those who want more capabilities from their headphones.  But, I need to indicate that I like them both quite well.


----------



## UmustBKidn

k.t. said:


> Yeah. Tried it. I have to say the DT770 250 ohm sounds MUCH better with the Vali than with the Magni. But even so, I can't listen to the DT770s for too long. Just not my cup of tea.
> 
> I find the DT770 to be unrefined and the treble too steely and rough. Probably my least favorite over the ear headphone that I paid a lot for.
> 
> But if you like the DT770, I can recommend them with the Vali over the Magni by far.


 
  
 Interesting. Thank you.
  
 I realize I suffer from a severe shortage of Good Headphones. My Beyer DT770's are the best I own. So that is the best frame of reference that I have. I blame my ex wife and divorce 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I will say that from my brief experiences with the Sennheiser 598's, that I really do prefer the sound signature of the Beyer cans over Sennheisers. Though that probably isn't the best benchmark either.
  
 Being an Old Guy (tm), I suffer from tinnitus and hearing loss. So it's kind of pointless - for me - to be overly pedantic regarding frequency response. For me, the frequency response of the DT770's is great, because it emphasizes most of the frequency ranges that I need to accentuate anyway (with the exception of the dip around 4 kHz). Yes, I know, frequency response curves aren't the whole story. But I like bassy cans, with at least flat midrange and preferably decent high end response. Even if a set of cans has flat high end response, I can't hear much above 14 kHz anyway. So I prefer to accentuate the stuff I can actually hear, though your point is well taken.


----------



## Khragon

Has anyone pair the vali with LCD2?  Is it "good enough" to drive the LCD2.  I just pull the trigger on getting one of those 20% discounted LCD2, and wonder if I should return my modi/vali (since I'm still in my 15 days window), and get a more power amp, like Woo Audio WA7, it's pretty costly though, so I hope vali could drive LCD2 so I can recover the the pain of getting the headphone first.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## K.T.

umustbkidn said:


> Interesting. Thank you.
> 
> I realize I suffer from a severe shortage of Good Headphones. My Beyer DT770's are the best I own. So that is the best frame of reference that I have. I blame my ex wife and divorce
> 
> ...




Well, we all have our individual preferences. While there were some things about the DT770 that didn't do it for me, there were other things about it that were great. So if they work out for you, you should do what you can to wring the most music from them and really enjoy them.

I only have limited experience amping the DT770 since I didn't feel I would use them that often. So I have only used them on the Vali and Magni. To my ears, the Vali was more musical. It played to the strengths of the DT770 much better while not highlighting the potential treble roughness.

If you are choosing between those amps, my vote would go to the Vali by a long mile.

But other members here probably have better advice about the DT770 and other amps than what I can offer.

Btw, as long as I've been reading this thread, all references to the Asgard mention the Asgard 1. Does anyone use the Asgard 2? I just received my 2 and am starting to wonder if there's something people are liking more.


----------



## jaywillin

khragon said:


> Has anyone pair the vali with LCD2?  Is it "good enough" to drive the LCD2.  I just pull the trigger on getting one of those 20% discounted LCD2, and wonder if I should return my modi/vali (since I'm still in my 15 days window), and get a more power amp, like Woo Audio WA7, it's pretty costly though, so I hope vali could drive LCD2 so I can recover the the pain of getting the headphone first.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 i have the vali and lcd2, and listening to them as we speak
 define "good enough"
 here's my take
 its got more than enough power for me, it has a punchy , snappy bass, gets plenty loud, louder than i listen to
 i don't know given the same output levels, if i could reliably pick either the vali or lyr apart
 i'd suspect, if you paired the little schiit stack with the lcd, the first thing you'd want to upgrade
 would be the modi(i had one before), not the vali


----------



## jaywillin

k.t. said:


> Well, we all have our individual preferences. While there were some things about the DT770 that didn't do it for me, there were other things about it that were great. So if they work out for you, you should do what you can to wring the most music from them and really enjoy them.
> 
> I only have limited experience amping the DT770 since I didn't feel I would use them that often. So I have only used them on the Vali and Magni. To my ears, the Vali was more musical. It played to the strengths of the DT770 much better while not highlighting the potential treble roughness.
> 
> ...


 
 sure, there are always going to be "current favs" i had the a2 with the lcd2, its very good, factor in the price, its killer. IMHO


----------



## Khragon

Thanks for the quick reply.
  
 I guess good enough for me mean the amp is enough to at least give the headphone a good chance to show what it can do.
  
 From the sound of it, look like it's enough.  Think I'll just hang on to modi/vali, recover from the expensive headphone cost, then move on from there.  I'm newbie here, and I never thought DAC would make that much of a difference, thanks for the advice.


----------



## jaywillin

khragon said:


> Thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> I guess good enough for me mean the amp is enough to at least give the headphone a good chance to show what it can do.
> 
> From the sound of it, look like it's enough.  Think I'll just hang on to modi/vali, recover from the expensive headphone cost, then move on from there.  I'm newbie here, and I never thought DAC would make that much of a difference, thanks for the advice.


 

 you're heading in the right direction i think,
 the biggest difference in sound quality vs $$ spent generally will be in the headphones, vs amps/dacs
 the lcd2 are very high quality cans, and if you like them, my second priority would be to have them properly driven(amp) then dac
 the modi is a great place to start dac wise


----------



## bearFNF

k.t. said:


> Btw, as long as I've been reading this thread, all references to the Asgard mention the Asgard 1. Does anyone use the Asgard 2? I just received my 2 and am starting to wonder if there's something people are liking more.


 
 FWIW - All my references in this thread to "Asgard" are to the Asgard 2.  Asgard 2 is being used as a pre-amp into my other amps and does a great job on it's own the gain switch is a good addition over the asgard 1.


khragon said:


> Has anyone pair the vali with LCD2?  Is it "good enough" to drive the LCD2.  I just pull the trigger on getting one of those 20% discounted LCD2, and wonder if I should return my modi/vali (since I'm still in my 15 days window), and get a more power amp, like Woo Audio WA7, it's pretty costly though, so I hope vali could drive LCD2 so I can recover the the pain of getting the headphone first.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Schiit actually had the LCDs on the Vali at CanJam as a demo if that tells you anything.  I listened to them for a bit but mostly used my HD800's for demo and now am using the Vali at home witht hem.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup.. HD800 and Vali are quite nice.  Here's a pic of my latest rig with the Vali..
post #16287


----------



## wje

khragon said:


> Has anyone pair the vali with LCD2?  Is it "good enough" to drive the LCD2.  I just pull the trigger on getting one of those 20% discounted LCD2,* and wonder if I should return my modi/vali (since I'm still in my 15 days window), and get a more power amp,* like Woo Audio WA7, it's pretty costly though, so I hope vali could drive LCD2 so I can recover the the pain of getting the headphone first.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Given that you can return the Vali / Modi within 15 days of purchase, keep in mind there is a 15% restocking fee, too.  Add in the cost of shipping both pieces back and you'll see how it might be best to just sell them on the forum here.  When you get away from the Vali, Magni and Modi, the 15-day return window, and 5% satisfaction guarantee applies (from what I've read on the site).


----------



## tdockweiler

wje said:


> Given that you can return the Vali / Modi within 15 days of purchase, keep in mind there is a 15% restocking fee, too.  Add in the cost of shipping both pieces back and you'll see how it might be best to just sell them on the forum here.  When you get away from the Vali, Magni and Modi, the 15-day return window, and 5% satisfaction guarantee applies (from what I've read on the site).


 
  
 Unless i'm mistaken you only get to return one item per year. Kind of lame but understandable.
 I guess it keeps people from buying their stuff just to demo it and then return it.
  
 I've purchased maybe 4 Schiit products before and returned only one of them. If I ever buy a Bifrost i'll probably get it from a reseller like Audio Advisor since you get 30 days and no restocking fee.


----------



## Misterrogers

Nah, not really lame. We all want a company like Schiit that doesn't mark up product, sells factory direct, and runs with tight margins - passing on great values to us. Unless you're dealing in massive volume such as Costco, there's no way to have all that and not have reasonable restrictions such as return limits and restocking fees. By and large, average customers are rarely if ever inconvenienced by such such policies. Serial 'Costco Rental' types are, but such is life.


----------



## Khragon

tdockweiler said:


> Unless i'm mistaken you only get to return one item per year. Kind of lame but understandable.
> I guess it keeps people from buying their stuff just to demo it and then return it.
> 
> I've purchased maybe 4 Schiit products before and returned only one of them. If I ever buy a Bifrost i'll probably get it from a reseller like Audio Advisor since you get 30 days and no restocking fee.


 
 I didn't know that.. I couldn't find term like that on their website, only the 15% restocking fee.  I have calculated it if I return I get the 9% tax back, still a better deal than selling on the forum for 15% of the total cost.  I have until end of this week to decide.  Feeling like I'm going to do it and get the Asgard 2 instead.  This way I can upgrade to Woo Audio later, while still keeping a capable solid state amp around for comparative listening .  If I ended up with Asgard 2 (or any of schiit other products) I'll definitely order it from Audio Advisor, free shipping and no tax.


----------



## jpalenzuela

Should I buy Vali or Magni? For my grados SR80i. I am planning on buying the stack (magni or vali and modi). I hear that tube amps goes with grado headphones


----------



## Makiah S

FINALLY
  
 I'm listening to my NFB 10es2 Vali and W1000x combo! WORTH IT, the vali just does EVERYTHING I wanted it to do with my w1000x and NFB 10ES2 [acting as a fixed line out dac] 
  
 listening to some dub step atm and that SUB BASS... me gusta! Sadly I've found the w1000x is the one headphone I DO NOT like to EQ... I can never settle on a good eq setting, that said though the color teh Vali adds is very complimentary to the w1000x 
  
 But again the NFB10ES2 is a very cold and clean dac, it combined with the Vali... is very good!


----------



## rwitt

Newbie here...
Love this forum-I just joined. I am wondering about the Vali and Grado SR-80i's. 
Will this be a good match?
Thanks!
Ron


----------



## mikemercer

rwitt said:


> Newbie here...
> Love this forum-I just joined. I am wondering about the Vali and Grado SR-80i's.
> Will this be a good match?
> Thanks!
> Ron


 
 I think that would be a great match for my ears sure!
 Love the Vali - got mine on-the-way (but heard plenty of it).
  
 You own Grado SR-80i's??


----------



## jim723

jpalenzuela said:


> Should I buy Vali or Magni? For my grados SR80i. I am planning on buying the stack (magni or vali and modi). I hear that tube amps goes with grado headphones


 
 I have tried SR80 with Vali and they worked very well together. SR80 seemed to be slightly more punchier on Vali than on the other solid state amp I have (i.e. E9). Although I can't comment on Magni.


----------



## mikemercer

jim723 said:


> I have tried SR80 with Vali and they worked very well together. SR80 seemed to be slightly more punchier on Vali than on the other solid state amp I have (i.e. E9). Although I can't comment on Magni.


 
 I was blown away by the Magni driving my LCD-3's when I heard it - how well the system performed musically!! For that price, WOW
 However - the Vali, IMO, took that experience and wiped it from my memory when I heard that w/ my LCD-3's at CanJam this year!!
  
 I actually mixed my first underground tech house record using Grado SR-80's!!
 It was pressed to vinyl when it got signed, and I thought the mix would be way off,
 but it wasn't!!
  
 I just passed my 80's along to my nephew actually - 
 but they're a staple.  Hell I even love my SRr-125i's!!


----------



## sling5s

With Grado's I would go with the Little Dot +.  Especially for SR80's.  Vali doesn't really tame the highs.


----------



## wje

sling5s said:


> With Grado's I would go with the Little Dot +.  Especially for SR80's.  Vali doesn't really tame the highs.


 
  
 I think your explanation is just about right on this one.  However, if one has the capability to EQ the sound a bit to tame the Vali a bit, then I'd indicate the Vali would be a good choice.  I've had 2 Little Dot I+ amps and getting into the tube rolling, Op-Amp rolling, etc. seems like one could spend more time focusing on the tweaking and less time on listening to the music.  Or, given the availability of the Asgard (v.1) amps that pop up every now in then at the $150 - $160 range, that option might be a strong consideration too.


----------



## atoff

Any opinion on how the Vali compares to the Little Dot I+?  I'll be using Sennheiser HD 598's.


----------



## sun31

I already have the asgard 2, is this vali amp worth buying as well? Or is the asgard 2 slightly better?
  
 I read in 1 post someone using the asgard 2 as a preamp and connecting the vali to it. Is that a good idea?
  
 I am currently using the HD700's
  
 Can anyone give me their opinions on this? Thanks


----------



## UmustBKidn

mshenay said:


> FINALLY
> 
> I'm listening to my NFB 10es2 Vali and W1000x combo! WORTH IT, the vali just does EVERYTHING I wanted it to do with my w1000x and NFB 10ES2 [acting as a fixed line out dac]
> 
> ...


 
  
 So I guess this means no more Bravo or Indeed for you, bro?


----------



## rwitt

mikemercer said:


> I think that would be a great match for my ears sure!
> Love the Vali - got mine on-the-way (but heard plenty of it).
> 
> You own Grado SR-80i's??




Yes I have the Grado SR-80i's. I was wondering about the Vali because the 80's are 34 ohm as are all Grado phones. The Vali output is 8 ohms and I read the rule of thumb was 4 ohms or less as being optimal for an amp used with Grado phones. 

Can someone help me get my head around this? Should I give Schiitt a call to be sure? I have never used an external amp with the 80's and like what I'm hearing of the Vali....

Thanks fellas-

Ron


----------



## jim723

rwitt said:


> Yes I have the Grado SR-80i's. I was wondering about the Vali because the 80's are 34 ohm as are all Grado phones. The Vali output is 8 ohms and I read the rule of thumb was 4 ohms or less as being optimal for an amp used with Grado phones.
> 
> Can someone help me get my head around this? Should I give Schiitt a call to be sure? I have never used an external amp with the 80's and like what I'm hearing of the Vali....
> 
> ...


 
 I like SR80 better with an amp. I know the usual impedance rule doesn't seem to work here. SR80 sounds much better with Vali. So do Denon D600 (25 Ohm) and Fidelio X1 (30 Ohm). Vali seems to be able to accommodate a very wide range of impedance. I am using Vali with the iBasso D42 as DAC connected to a laptop via USB.


----------



## rwitt

jim723 said:


> I like SR80 better with an amp. I know the usual impedance rule doesn't seem to work here. SR80 sounds much better with Vali. So do Denon D600 (25 Ohm) and Fidelio X1 (30 Ohm). Vali seems to be able to accommodate a very wide range of impedance. I am using Vali with the iBasso D42 as DAC connected to a laptop via USB.




Thank you for your help. I am going to connect the line out of an FM HD tuner directly to the Vali on the nightstand just to try something different. The line out should be enough level for the Vali would you think? Does this sound like a nice setup? I would think any component line out should work...

I love my SR-80i's but I may upgrade higher up the Grado line don't know yet. I've never done this before...


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> So I guess this means no more Bravo or Indeed for you, bro?


 
 Actually, I'm going to be learning how to sodder here soon... I might wind up getting a Bravo and trying my hand at some of the Mods... once I get more comfortable with my soddering skills. Started working at a PC repair shop, and my boss needs another person who can Sodder so Figured I'd try to pick it up 
  
 But sound wise, the Vali is hands down better than every sub $150 hybrid tube I've heard!


----------



## tdockweiler

mshenay said:


> Actually, I'm going to be learning how to sodder here soon... I might wind up getting a Bravo and trying my hand at some of the Mods... once I get more comfortable with my soddering skills. Started working at a PC repair shop, and my boss needs another person who can Sodder so Figured I'd try to pick it up
> 
> But sound wise, the Vali is hands down better than every sub $150 hybrid tube I've heard!


 
  
 You should try to make some nice new cables with Mogami W2893 or Belden wire. I learned how to solder a few years ago from Google and random Youtube videos. Mostly because I sliced my DJ100s internal wires and had to fix it. My skill level is still average, but it's kind of nice being able to make your own cables. None of them ever look very professional, but I don't care. It saves a few dollars and they usually have good shielding. Bulk wire is also only $1.25 or so per foot.
  
 Toughest soldering job i've done is making an AKG Q701 cable. Soldering those tiny Mini-XLR plugs is nearly impossible to me due to the size.
  
 I think my mistake is not getting a good soldering iron and a small Vise. "Helping Hands" and a Vise are a good investment.


----------



## imackler

I just have to say I have never enjoyed the HD650 more than with the Vali. Such a good next step for thus who want to get more out of their phones.


----------



## Makiah S

tdockweiler said:


> You should try to make some nice new cables with Mogami W2893 or Belden wire. I learned how to solder a few years ago from Google and random Youtube videos. Mostly because I sliced my DJ100s internal wires and had to fix it. My skill level is still average, but it's kind of nice being able to make your own cables. None of them ever look very professional, but I don't care. It saves a few dollars and they usually have good shielding. Bulk wire is also only $1.25 or so per foot.
> 
> Toughest soldering job i've done is making an AKG Q701 cable. Soldering those tiny Mini-XLR plugs is nearly impossible to me due to the size.
> 
> I think my mistake is not getting a good soldering iron and a small Vise. "Helping Hands" and a Vise are a good investment.


 
 Yea I hear alot about the need for helping hands! I might try to start doing recables actually! Start with a cheap ole headphone and see how it goes lol!


----------



## 4nradio

tdockweiler said:


> Toughest soldering job i've done is making an AKG Q701 cable. Soldering those tiny Mini-XLR plugs is nearly impossible to me due to the size.
> 
> I think my mistake is not getting a good soldering iron and a small Vise. "Helping Hands" and a Vise are a good investment.


 
  
 I've been soldering HD800 connectors recently; Mini-XLR plugs seem like a big, comfy sofa to relax on in comparison  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




    
 The basic tools like a decent temperature-controlled & grounded soldering station makes a world of difference. Ones like these are an excellent value for around forty bucks:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/121144589108  
  
 In addition to the usefulness of a small vise and the "helping hands" accessory, I'd add a small needle-dispenser bottle of rosin flux or at least a flux "pen".


----------



## meanandgreen

...


----------



## meanandgreen

imackler said:


> I just have to say I have never enjoyed the HD650 more than with the Vali. Such a good next step for thus who want to get more out of their phones.


 
 I'm curious if you have tried the HD650 with any other Schiit amps like the Valhalla and if so what you thought compared with the much less costly Vali. (Edit - according to the Guide on the Schiit website they recommend the Valhalla).


----------



## jim723

rwitt said:


> Thank you for your help. I am going to connect the line out of an FM HD tuner directly to the Vali on the nightstand just to try something different. The line out should be enough level for the Vali would you think? Does this sound like a nice setup? I would think any component line out should work...
> 
> I love my SR-80i's but I may upgrade higher up the Grado line don't know yet. I've never done this before...


 
 I connected the line out of iBasso to the RCA input of Vali. I would assume the line out of your FM tuner should work too. I have always felt the SR80 was too bright and bass light (bought it out of curiosity). With Vali the SR80 still sounded a little bright but it's more tolerable. The bass is now more solid and present. I also was wondering if I should try a higher Grado or the AD900x on Vali.


----------



## rwitt

jim723 said:


> I connected the line out of iBasso to the RCA input of Vali. I would assume the line out of your FM tuner should work too. I have always felt the SR80 was too bright and bass light (bought it out of curiosity). With Vali the SR80 still sounded a little bright but it's more tolerable. The bass is now more solid and present. I also was wondering if I should try a higher Grado or the AD900x on Vali.



Hi Jim!
Thanks for getting back. I am not familiar with the iBasso but a line output is what every stereo component has in my way of figuring they should all work. I have literally no line outputs left anywhere in my actual systems. The preamp outs and tape outs are all in use. So the Vali will need to go with a dedicated component line out such as my tuner in a stand alone bedside system - Tuner or CD player plus the headphone amp. It should work fine even with a cassette player line out! (Fingers crossed). 

I have really only recently heard the 80's with a proper level from a vintage receiver and did notice some extended highs and much fuller bass with a wide soundstage. Much nicer sound than a simple connection to a CD or tape deck. I'm hoping the Vali will continue that trend for me. I called Schiit for some questions I've had on using a line level component rather than my amp as an input. I'll post what they have to say. 

Right now I am considering buying a better set of phones as well as I tally my Christmas debt! I am completely taken by how much headphones have taken over my audio mind after the time I spent building two beautiful high end systems in my house. I'm amazed....


----------



## jpalenzuela

jim723 said:


> I like SR80 better with an amp. I know the usual impedance rule doesn't seem to work here. SR80 sounds much better with Vali. So do Denon D600 (25 Ohm) and Fidelio X1 (30 Ohm). Vali seems to be able to accommodate a very wide range of impedance. I am using Vali with the iBasso D42 as DAC connected to a laptop via USB.




D42 mamba with vali amp looks like an amazing combo. Im getting D42 Mamba for my SR80is and when I upgrade to MS2 im going to buy vali


----------



## mangler

Don't know if it's already been mentioned, but Radiohead's hilarious "review" is actually on Schiit's Vali review page, just like Jason promised


----------



## kelvinquanqi

sun31 said:


> I already have the asgard 2, is this vali amp worth buying as well? Or is the asgard 2 slightly better?
> 
> I read in 1 post someone using the asgard 2 as a preamp and connecting the vali to it. Is that a good idea?
> 
> ...



Hi, I am just into head-fi community. I have a HD700 and am looking for a good budget amp. How does your HD700 sound with Asgard 2? And which dac do you use? Any suggested combos? Thanks!


----------



## MickeyVee

When I had my HD700, it sounded awesome out of the Lyr/Bifrost combo so I would suggest Vali/Bifrost or Bifrost Uber.  I've got a feeling that the A2 may accentuate the treble on the HD700 too much.
  
 Quote:


kelvinquanqi said:


> Hi, I am just into head-fi community. I have a HD700 and am looking for a good budget amp. How does your HD700 sound with Asgard 2? And which dac do you use? Any suggested combos? Thanks!


----------



## dunkrag

Another vote for a glorious sound coming out of my iMac into the Vali and listening with the HD650s. 
  
 Any advantage to getting a dedicated DAC? Would adding the Modi up the quality compared the the iMac's internal one... ?


----------



## shipsupt

A friend and fellow Head-Fi'er was kind enough to lend me his Vali over the holidays (before he had even listened to it himself! THANKS!).  I jumped at the chance to spend some time with this little $120 wonder, and have enjoyed every minute with it since.  I've primarily been splitting time between the HD-800 and Paradox.


----------



## Radio_head

Purrin would hate that setup. He's a Motzart man.


----------



## kelvinquanqi

Thank you so much for your quick reply, MickeyVee! I have ordered my Vali this morning and paired with my Fiio E7k. I guess my next move is the lyr/bifrost uber combo! Thank you for your suggestions!


----------



## brhfl

dunkrag said:


> Any advantage to getting a dedicated DAC? Would adding the Modi up the quality compared the the iMac's internal one... ?


 
 I think so... Don't know what the output stage in an iMac is like, but I would assume my Mac Pro is comparable, and even Modi was a huge improvement. Of course, at the time there were six spinning drives, etc. inside the Pro, lot of room for interference..! But even the TOSLINK output never seemed that great to me, not sure the internal clock is quite up to snuff... Async USB is nice, and Modi ran incredibly reliably on my Mac when it was connected.


----------



## brennanx1

Hey guys, I just opened mine up to test with the Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm. 
 Let me just say that I already notice a difference in sound quality, most likely from the modi I bought as well. Now, there is one thing that I'm wondering about. Since I have to keep my volume kinda high most of the time to drive these headphones, I'm not sure if this is my fault or just the equipment burning in. First of all, the bass isn't as strong as I expected. That may improve later on though because I haven't even used it for an hour. Lastly, I noticed a slight buzzing when there are vocals. It's kinda like the sound your voice makes when you talk in front of a fan. It only happens sometimes, but I'm not really sure. 
  
 Everything is great otherwise, and maybe it will resolve itself when it burns in anyways.


----------



## ryant

Here is my little mini review of the Modi/Vali combo with the HE-300's. First off, I only have about 10 hours time on this as I just got it yesterday evening. My other sources for comparison are my computers onboard sound card (not great).


*Fit and Finish*




As you guys probably already know, the fit and finish are fantastic. I was really impressed with both components. The stack looks very elegant and doesn't feel cheap in any way. You can tell Schiit really pays attention to the details on their gear. It's surprising to see this in such low cost units. Build quality seems very good as well. The coating seems very clear and even and the rubber feet are a nice touch. The lettering and logo on units are both well done and classy. All the holes and screws are nice and clean. I did find the LED's a bit bright but honestly not too bad. My Vali is 772 and upon first opening the package I looked to see if my tubes had come up off the board as so many others had reported happening. So far no sign of them being lifted off the foam.

There are a few things I didn't love about the combo. I feel like the volume pot is a bit stiff and not as smooth as I would hope. Granted I do feel a bit silly saying that given the ridiculously low price point this amp is at. Aside from the volume knob feel, I have an ever so slight channel imbalance at the very start of the volume pot. If I start at 0 and very slowly turn it up, the left channel comes on first and then the right picks up shortly there after. This is at levels so low that you can barely hear the music so it's not a big deal. The only other thing I would change is the gain. I find that it's exceptionally loud at about 10 O'clock. I feel that with these cans, I would never need to turn it up higher than that. I wish I had a bit more play in the volume pot. Granted I can see the trade offs that must be made for an amp that is going to be used for a wide variety of cans. I would hate to have some inefficient cans that couldn't achieve the volume needed. I know I can adjust the volume going from the Modi via the windows volume but I like to try and run that at 100%. Those are my only gripes with it but overall they are no where near deal breakers. I am still floored that I could get a DAC and tube amp of this quality for $220. This is just an INSANE deal. 



*Sound*

I will say right up front it takes a few minutes to really get warmed up. This is my first foray into the wonderful world of tubes so I really didn't know what to expect. I brought the package into the house and let it sit for about an hour to let it warm up from the cold. I sadly didn't have any good quality cables on hand so I'm using a generic RCA and USB cable. I will be buying some proper cables shortly. After hooking it up, my computer immediately recognized the Modi and I was all set. Upon first flipping the switch I heard a very faint ringing for about 5 seconds. I had honestly expected a lot more ringing from this unit but was pleasantly surprised with almost no issues. I can rap on the case and hardly get a peep out of it. Adjusting volume or pounding on the desk doesn't trigger any ringing either. I may have just been extremely lucky with my unit and I can imagine with variances in the tubes themselves some could be worse than others. 

I decided to just jump right in with the music and see how it compared to my onboard sound card. Here are some early impressions once it was warmed up.

*Paper Hearts and She* *by* *Silver Trees*:
Mp3 128Kbps
Even though these tracks are low bitrate MP3s, I love to use them to evaluate systems because there are so many interesting layers to the music. The guitar picking on both tracks were very defined with a hint of warmth. The vocals were just fantastic. There are some interesting reverb and layering effects used on the songs. I feel that it takes a system with a fair bit of resolution to be able to distinctly pick apart all the reverb and layers while not clouding the whole presentation. The drums were overall clear but suffered from compression of the MP3. All in all the vocals really stole the show with these tracks. The resolution and presentation were far and away greater than my onboard sound card. 

*Heaven by Los Lonely Boys*:
FLACC
This is another go to track for me. I feel that for a mainstream album, it's mixed and mastered well. Right away the electric guitar riffs were smooth and very well defined. I could hear the reverb and hint of distortion on the instrument which is great. I could hear the separate guitar riffs clear as day. The cymbals, toms, and snare were all nice and sharp with only a tad bit of smearing on the cymbals. The bass came through defined and with some amazing warmth. I feel it can tend to get lost in the mix with this track but I didn't have any trouble picking it out. The vocals were the star of the show on this track. They were buttery smooth and just fantastic.

*Fix You by Coldplay*:
FLACC
I've always felt that Coldplay tended to master their material a bit to hot in the treble so I love to use their material to test how a system will handle the treble when it. I felt the Modi/Vali did a wonderful job on this track. The organ and piano sounded a bit warm to my ears but overall had a clean and clear presentation. The guitar came in a bit hot but very controlled and never seemed to edge over the line for me. The vocals again were stunning through this track. I can't get over how buttery smooth they are! Even though they can tend to sound harsh on this track, the Modi/Vali combo didn't skip a beat here. When the song picked up speed with the distorted guitar and drums it still maintained composure and very good instrument separation. I could hear the compression on the track (mainly with the cymbals becoming splashy) but I believe that is a product of the compression applied to the recording. 

*Back's Against the Wall by Judah & the Lion*:
FLACC
This is an interesting track. I love the variety of instruments and even though I think the recording isn't the best I've heard, I still love to see how a system will present this track. Right away the guitar and upright bass sounded well defined with a bit of a laid back feel. The mandolin and banjo both came through with incredibly realism and separation. Drums on this track typically sound a bit muffled and compressed and that was represented here as well. I feel the vocals have an interestin grunge applied to them. I don't know if that was on purpose or an effect of the mastering but they were well layered and defined. Overall the Modi/Vali did a great job providing a clear defined and spacious sound to this track.  

  
*Overall Sound*
I can honestly say the Modi/Vali combo is a pretty staggering difference from my onboard sound card. The amp itself was still cold to the touch on the first few tracks and had a bit of harshness to it. Once It physically warmed up that faded away to an incredibly sweet and clean sound. The onboard card had always sounded dull and veiled while being slightly splashy in the higher treble ranges. The Modi/Vali really took control of the sound. The extension seemed great and instrument separation was phenomenal. So far I would have to say the main attraction here is the buttery smooth mid range and incredible detail that this combo can pull out of the music. Even with poorly recorded tracks and compressed MP3s I found myself hearing so much detail and clarity. I don't think I've come across a track that really sounded harsh. It's just such a pleasant sound signature. 


*Final Thoughts*





This combo is literally a no brainer in my opinion. I have been out of the audio world for the past 4-5 years and this combo along with my HE-300's are my entry back into it. I listen to this setup and am shocked at the quality I've gotten for a mere $370. I could honestly say that I don't need anything better than this combo. I'm sure I will still purchase more gear because I love to hear different things and tinker with equipment but the detail, resolution, and overall presentation of this setup is just off the charts. I can't wait to get more play time with this combo and see how it changes and matures over the burn in period.  

[Edited to make more sense]


----------



## mikemercer

ryant said:


> Here is my little mini review of the Modi/Vali combo with the HE-300's. First off, I only have about 10 hours time on this as I just got it yesterday evening. My other sources for comparison are my computers onboard sound card (not great).
> 
> 
> *Fit and Finish*
> ...


 
 GREAT job!!
 My Vali is on the way!!
 I LOVED it at CanJam (see our collective report at Audio360.org HERE)
  
 Psyched to dig into my own review!
 Again, hats off on your effort here!


----------



## jaywillin

mikemercer said:


> GREAT job!!
> My Vali is on the way!!
> I LOVED it at CanJam (see our collective report at Audio360.org HERE)
> 
> ...


 

 mike, the vali is so good, if i weren't for my need/want of a preamp functionality, i might let the lyr go, and maybe try a balanced amp


----------



## Makiah S

brennanx1 said:


> Hey guys, I just opened mine up to test with the Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm.
> Let me just say that I already notice a difference in sound quality, most likely from the modi I bought as well. Now, there is one thing that I'm wondering about. Since I have to keep my volume kinda high most of the time to drive these headphones, I'm not sure if this is my fault or just the equipment burning in. First of all, the bass isn't as strong as I expected. That may improve later on though because I haven't even used it for an hour. Lastly, I noticed a slight buzzing when there are vocals. It's kinda like the sound your voice makes when you talk in front of a fan. It only happens sometimes, but I'm not really sure.
> 
> Everything is great otherwise, and maybe it will resolve itself when it burns in anyways.


 
 That's not good, could be an issue with your dac, the amp or the headphone. I notcied with my DT 880 600 ohm as well, the bass had an inrease of GRIT and punch WAY down into the Sub Bass, adn the vocals are crystal clear on my Vali and DT 880. I did notice that sourced out of my UAC 202 dac [I had to use the Headphone out on that unit which meant I was double amping] I noticed some issues with the bass... but not a lack there of.


----------



## gidgiddonihah

I just opened my new HE-400's for Christmas.  Loving the hell out of these things but I am of the opinion it needs a bit more than my Dragonfly can offer.  Anyone have a Dragonfly > Vali > HE-400 setup and can comment? You know your audiophile is bad when you get $400 headphones and want to upgrade your system along with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## brennanx1

mshenay said:


> That's not good, could be an issue with your dac, the amp or the headphone. I notcied with my DT 880 600 ohm as well, the bass had an inrease of GRIT and punch WAY down into the Sub Bass, adn the vocals are crystal clear on my Vali and DT 880. I did notice that sourced out of my UAC 202 dac [I had to use the Headphone out on that unit which meant I was double amping] I noticed some issues with the bass... but not a lack there of.


 
 Well, now that is has burnt in for about 8-10 hours, it has definitely improved. I actually cannot hear the vocal problem anymore. The bass isn't as strong as my other amp, but I was able to fix that with a little EQ adjustment. It sounds 3x better than it did yesterday.


----------



## nabwong

gidgiddonihah said:


> I just opened my new HE-400's for Christmas.  Loving the hell out of these things but I am of the opinion it needs a bit more than my Dragonfly can offer.  Anyone have a Dragonfly > Vali > HE-400 setup and can comment? You know your audiophile is bad when you get $400 headphones and want to upgrade your system along with it  .




Congrats on the he400. I have the modi-vali-he400. I previously used the e17 and i thought the he400 was a little fatiguing but the vali has tamed the highs really well. I wouldn't say the vali is warm. I think just south of neutral. It's a great pairing I think. I haven't heard many high end amps recently but I'm not sure it's worth spending much more on an amp after the vali. I think after that, it's just differences of sound and not so much the technical aspect. But maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Rem0o

nabwong said:


> Congrats on the he400. I have the modi-vali-he400. I previously used the e17 and i thought the he400 was a little fatiguing but the vali has tamed the highs really well. I wouldn't say the vali is warm. I think just south of neutral. It's a great pairing I think. I haven't heard many high end amps recently but I'm not sure it's worth spending much more on an amp after the vali. I think after that, it's just differences of sound and not so much the technical aspect. But maybe I'm wrong.


 
 You'll say the same thing at each step up


----------



## rwitt

ryant-Super nice review and great pics. Just your enthusiasm shows how nice these products are!
Thank you...
Ron


----------



## nabwong

rem0o said:


> You'll say the same thing at each step up




Haha. How much of that is just me trying to justify the money I'm spending.


----------



## mikemercer

jaywillin said:


> mike, the vali is so good, if i weren't for my need/want of a preamp functionality, i might let the lyr go, and maybe try a balanced amp


 
 are you stuck to tubes?
 I only ask because I enjoy both SS and tubes...


----------



## theOmni

Hello everyone. I have the Titanium HD sound card. What is the best way to connect this to the Vali? 
  
 Sound card's Headphone 3.5mm -> Vali's RCA
 or
 Sound card's L/R Channel-> Vali's RCA
  
 I intend on having this connected to my Q701 headphones.


----------



## mikemercer

theomni said:


> Hello everyone. I have the Titanium HD sound card. What is the best way to connect this to the Vali?
> 
> Sound card's 3.5mm -> Vali's RCA
> or
> ...


 
 whenever you can go RCA-to-RCA do it
 less possibility of noise


----------



## theOmni

Thank you for your quick reply!
  
 This is the sound card I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033
  
 Which ports do I use and which wire will I need?


----------



## bearFNF

theomni said:


> Thank you for your quick reply!
> 
> This is the sound card I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033
> 
> Which ports do I use and which wire will I need?


 
 Need RCA to RCA cable like this:
 Monoprice 1.5ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG Cable - Black

  
 Here ya go:


----------



## FlySweep

I know it's been mentioned before.. but I thought I'd reiterate this point w/ my own personal experience:
  
 - The Vali is very, _very _worthy of being paired with a DAC that cost many times its price -
  
 I finally got a chance to hook the Vali up to the V800.. plugged in the HD650.
  
 Oh. My. Goodness.
  
 I was astonished at how this diminutive beast impressed me even further.  I'm not even tossing a bunch of hi-res, super-well recorded stuff at it, either (a variety of hip hop, jazz, electronica, and rock from my MOG subscription).
  
 Simply terrific.
  
 This amp is destined for classic status, IMO.  Again, $120 has _no business_ sounding this good.


----------



## Makiah S

mikemercer said:


> are you stuck to tubes?
> I only ask because I enjoy both SS and tubes...




me too. My w1000X sounds divine out of my nfb vali combo. While I prefer my dt 880 fully balanced with the nfb10es2 

either way the vali imo is phenominal for the price

also a touch south of neutral is a good way to describe it!


----------



## Makiah S

flysweep said:


> I know it's been mentioned before.. but I thought I'd reiterate this point w/ my own personal experience:
> 
> - The Vali is very, _very _worthy of being paired with a DAC that cost many times its price -
> 
> ...




+9000 lol. I noticed the same. The vali scaled amazingly with my nfb10es2 as a preamp. The only flaw it has is a lil noise with sensitive cans during quiet passages... n i csn TOTALLY live with that!


----------



## vaibhavp

is vali good for adding some warmth and musicality to analytical sounding cans like akg q701?
  
 can anyone explain how pair sounds in your experience?
  
 thanks.


----------



## bala

flysweep said:


> I know it's been mentioned before.. but I thought I'd reiterate this point w/ my own personal experience:
> 
> - The Vali is very, _very _worthy of being paired with a DAC that cost many times its price -
> 
> ...


 
  
 That sure is high praise coming from a BH/SB-HD650 listener, makes life difficult waiting for Schiit to fix the initial issues with the amp! Have to resist


----------



## Makiah S

bala said:


> That sure is high praise coming from a BH/SB-HD650 listener, makes life difficult waiting for Schiit to fix the initial issues with the amp! Have to resist


 
 GIVE IN,
  
 I got unit 5xx and It's fine. Yea it has a little noise but it's a tube that's to be expected. Not to mention it is dead silent with my DT 880 600 ohm


----------



## Misterrogers

bala said:


> That sure is high praise coming from a BH/SB-HD650 listener, makes life difficult waiting for Schiit to fix the initial issues with the amp! Have to resist


 
 I don't expect Schiit to go farther than they have in trying to 'fix' the microphonics of this little amp. Combining the microphonic nature of the tube being used, the efforts already taken, the price point of the amp... As is, they'll sell everyone they can make.


----------



## MattTCG

I liked the Vali, but it does not work well for sensitive cans IMO. The sony ma900 was noisy to the point of being unlistenable.  The only other real issue that I had outside the microphonics was that there wasn't much play on the volume pot. For me, it was medium loud at 9:00...so to be at a comfortable listening level I was at 8-8:30. 
  
 Other than that I felt like the Vali was a bargain at it's price point. In fairness, I wouldn't compare the Vali to amps costing $1k+. But I did feel it was comparable to amps costing 2-3x as much which is quite a testament to just how good it is. 
  
 The is my go to recommendation for all those asking what to spend around $100. Nothing else even comes close IMO.
  
 To the guys at Schiit...


----------



## CarpeDijon

matttcg said:


> I liked the Vali, but it does not work well for sensitive cans IMO. The sony ma900 was noisy to the point of being unlistenable.




From your statement and others I've read, I assume that it won't work well with the ATH-AD2000, either. Has anyone tried this pairing?


----------



## ryant

Thanks for the kind words regarding the review. I will probably update it once I get closer to the 100 hour mark. 

I did just order some fostex t50rp cans and modding supplies. They should be here Friday so I can hopefully get some impressions of how the Vali pairs with them. It might be a while before I can get them tweaked how I like but I think a before and after impression would be warranted .

As to sensitive cans. My HE-300s may fall into that range a bit. 50 ohms and 92 db. I can pick out just the slightest bit of noise if I am in a quiet room with nothing playing. Where the volume pot is at doesn't change the level. I was listening for any noise floor issues and honestly took a while to hear it. The sennheiser hd-439's do not pair well. The noise floor is higher and ringing seems almost constant though faint.


----------



## Makiah S

carpedijon said:


> From your statement and others I've read, I assume that it won't work well with the ATH-AD2000, either. Has anyone tried this pairing?


 
 I like it with my W1000x, which should have simmilar sensivity and impedance as the AD 2000


----------



## jaywillin

mikemercer said:


> are you stuck to tubes?
> I only ask because I enjoy both SS and tubes...


 

 NOOOOOOOOOOO ! lol   though i do tend to lean the "tube" way
  
 as i type, listening to the lcd2.2 out of my wadia 121's headphone output, its top notch ! and i briefly had the soloist, but i ultimately opted for the lyr over it
 and honestly, i don't know that i'd pick the vali over the lyr, but sonically, they are pretty dang close
 and the lyr controls my ps1's
 what i may do, and i'm pretty close to pulling the trigger, is giving the mjolnir a whirl, run it from the balanced outs of the
 wadia, run single ended to the lyr.
 i'm still exploring !!
 and open to suggestions !!


----------



## Makiah S

jaywillin said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOO ! lol   though i do tend to lean the "tube" way
> 
> as i type, listening to the lcd2.2 out of my wadia 121's headphone output, its top notch ! and i briefly had the soloist, but i ultimately opted for the lyr over it
> and honestly, i don't know that i'd pick the vali over the lyr, but sonically, they are pretty dang close
> ...


 
 Crazy story, about 6 months ago this fellow bought my Indeed G3... and now he's got A Lyr  COMMUNITY 
  
 ehm, that said I'm really a Solid State guy. The Vali is the nicest sounding tube I've heard so far... and I've only had cheap tubes atm. I don't think I'll b upgrading from the Vali for a while! Honestly >.>


----------



## jaywillin

mshenay said:


> Crazy story, about 6 months ago this fellow bought my Indeed G3... and now he's got A Lyr  COMMUNITY
> 
> ehm, that said I'm really a Solid State guy. The Vali is the nicest sounding tube I've heard so far... and I've only had cheap tubes atm. I don't think I'll b upgrading from the Vali for a while! Honestly >.>


 

 and i ended up giving that g3 to another headfi'er, when he bought some stuff from me, its out there somewhere !!


----------



## jpalenzuela

I am getting this amp with the modi. How will it perform paired with SR80i and ms2? This amp adds warmth? I thaught it was better to get the monoprice rca cables but they have really bad reputation about they don't fit. Anyone have tested them? Will I notice any difference between the PYST schiit USB cable and monoprice cable?
Thanks


----------



## benjaminhuypham

I think I will probably get Vali first and Loki later to pair with HD600, which is being arrived to my house next 2 weeks. Any thoughts on the combo, everyone?


----------



## dremic

how do people feel about this amp in comparison to the magni? I was thinking about getting an amp for work


----------



## thegunner100

benjaminhuypham said:


> I think I will probably get Vali first and Loki later to pair with HD600, which is being arrived to my house next 2 weeks. Any thoughts on the combo, everyone?


 

 Well the loki is a DSD processor... did you mean the modi?  
  


dremic said:


> how do people feel about this amp in comparison to the magni? I was thinking about getting an amp for work


 

 I think there were some comparisons some page back. But for the most part it seems like the general consensus is that the Vali is better than the magni for high impedance cans, and while it works well for orthos, people seem to prefer the magni for orthos. Of course, the magni will do a much better job with IEMs due to its lower impedance and floor noise.


----------



## dremic

thegunner100 said:


> Well the loki is a DSD processor... did you mean the modi?
> 
> 
> I think there were some comparisons some page back. But for the most part it seems like the general consensus is that the Vali is better than the magni for high impedance cans, and while it works well for orthos, people seem to prefer the magni for orthos. Of course, the magni will do a much better job with IEMs due to its lower impedance and floor noise.


 
 what would be considered high impedance? 
  
 right now I am using Sennheiser 558s..
  
 if the vali is better for these headphones id take the magni to work and leave the vali at home.


----------



## thegunner100

dremic said:


> what would be considered high impedance?
> 
> right now I am using Sennheiser 558s..
> 
> if the vali is better for these headphones id take the magni to work and leave the vali at home.


 

 Usually the 250 or 600 ohm beyers, or the hd600/650/800. 
  
 Considering that people here have said that the vali is a good pairing with the hd598, which are very similar to the 558, I think it should be fine. But it would be best to listen for yourself and determine which one sounds better to your ears.


----------



## theOmni

I'm about to buy the Vali but one thing concerning me is the ringing noise people speak of. I saw some posts back that opening up the amp and pushing down the tubes helped. But even without doing that, is the ringing constant and always there even when listening to music or does it subside at some point?


----------



## dremic

thegunner100 said:


> Usually the 250 or 600 ohm beyers, or the hd600/650/800.
> 
> Considering that people here have said that the vali is a good pairing with the hd598, which are very similar to the 558, I think it should be fine. But it would be best to listen for yourself and determine which one sounds better to your ears.


 
 hey thanks for your help man. I am new to this aspect of sound. I am still learning a lot.


----------



## jbarrentine

theomni said:


> I'm about to buy the Vali but one thing concerning me is the ringing noise people speak of. I saw some posts back that opening up the amp and pushing down the tubes helped. But even without doing that, is the ringing constant and always there even when listening to music or does it subside at some point?


 
  
 It's there for a few seconds when you turn it on, mine rings like 15 seconds. Some people report it when they change the volume, but mine has never done that. It's not there all the time. It's nothing to worry about, and just a minor quibble for a product at this price point.


----------



## Makiah S

theomni said:


> I'm about to buy the Vali but one thing concerning me is the ringing noise people speak of. I saw some posts back that opening up the amp and pushing down the tubes helped. But even without doing that, is the ringing constant and always there even when listening to music or does it subside at some point?


 
 It's not as much of an issue as time goes on, the newer models seem to have less noise over the older ones. That say, you could like others wait till the New Year, I'd say now that the Holiday rush is over the next batch should be fine, my unit in the #5xx is more than quiet 
  
 As far as ringing goes, seeing as it is  tube, the best thing to do it turn it on plug in your phones and let it warm up. after 3-4 mins your good to go


----------



## thegunner100

As part of the first batch, SN# 000162, mine has a little bit of floor noise with the hd800. However, it is not audible unless I am playing at a low volume, or with quiet music. The adhesive on mine isn't the greatest but the tubes somewhat stay in place. There's not much ringing on my hd800s since I don't really touch the amp itself, only for the occasional volume change. 
  
 Quote:


dremic said:


> hey thanks for your help man. I am new to this aspect of sound. I am still learning a lot.


 

 Np!


----------



## theOmni

mshenay said:


> It's not as much of an issue as time goes on, the newer models seem to have less noise over the older ones. That say, you could like others wait till the New Year, I'd say now that the Holiday rush is over the next batch should be fine, my unit in the #5xx is more than quiet
> 
> As far as ringing goes, seeing as it is  tube, the best thing to do it turn it on plug in your phones and let it warm up. after 3-4 mins your good to go







jbarrentine said:


> It's there for a few seconds when you turn it on, mine rings like 15 seconds. Some people report it when they change the volume, but mine has never done that. It's not there all the time. It's nothing to worry about, and just a minor quibble for a product at this price point.




Thanks a lot guys! I feel a lot more comfortable going through with this purchase. I'll order it some time tomorrow!


----------



## blasjw

theomni said:


> I'm about to buy the Vali but one thing concerning me is the ringing noise people speak of. I saw some posts back that opening up the amp and pushing down the tubes helped. But even without doing that, is the ringing constant and always there even when listening to music or does it subside at some point?


 
  
 I got mine from Amazon recently (S/N 000974) and after tapping on it I get a very faint ring only on the right channel which dissipates in under about 30 sec.


----------



## mikemercer

blasjw said:


> I got mine from Amazon recently (S/N 000974) and after tapping on it I get a very faint ring only on the right channel which dissipates in under about 30 sec.


 
 I just got mine!!

 I heard about the chassis/tube resonance issue...
 I hear they're addressing it - all they need to do really is strap on a tube ring,
 or maybe get some better damping material between the chassis and the tube
  
 Haven't tapped to check it out yet,
 but it sure sounds DAMN good thus far...


----------



## thegunner100

mikemercer said:


> I just got mine!!
> 
> I heard about the chassis/tube resonance issue...
> I hear they're addressing it - all they need to do really is strap on a tube ring,
> ...


 

 The microphonics come from inside the tubes, so there's not much that can be done about it. Another user here tried putting rings onto the tube but that didn't help the microphonics at all.


----------



## mikemercer

thegunner100 said:


> The microphonics come from inside the tubes, so there's not much that can be done about it. Another user here tried putting rings onto the tube but that didn't help the microphonics at all.


 
 RELLY - 
 hmmmm
  
 perhaps the socket???
 Choice of tube???
 I'm gonna write Jason and the gang and figure this out.
  
 I haven't experienced any microphonics yet - but then again I haven't tapped on it.


----------



## nabwong

The first thing I did when I got the vali was to open the amp and sure enough, the tubes were raised. Pushed them down and the micro phonic is down to a manageable 5 secs.


----------



## thegunner100

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, sorry I didn't see the talk about O-rings/grommets/etc earlier. We tried all of that (and a couple of other things, too) and they don't help appreciably with the microphonics. If they had, that's the way we would have gone. Believe it or not, we have a real engineering department here.
> 
> Why doesn't damping the tube make the microphonics better? Simple--the tube glass isn't ringing, it's the internal structure of the tube, which you cannot touch.
> 
> The best solution would be a small antigravity device to float the tubes in open air, but short of that, the solution we arrived at is the best from a production standpoint. In happier news, though, we're now applying an additional, long-term noise sort on testing to weed out the unacceptable "ringers."


 
  
  


jason stoddard said:


> That's a different tube--operating points and microphony are completely different in the 6418. How do we know? We tried them.
> 
> We also tried lots of different operating points on the 6088s, as well as running the heaters under-voltaged, and all the little things we've learned over the years about tubes. Remember, Mike Moffat was one of the guys who brought tubes back into audio--in the late 1970s. We've been doing this for a while...


----------



## wje

mikemercer said:


> RELLY -
> hmmmm
> 
> perhaps the socket???
> ...


 
  
 thegunner100 did a good job of digging up the quotes from Jason.  I still have the "O" rings on my tubes.  When I initially documented the process, the tubes seemed to really quiet down from a microphonics standpoint when the RTV silicon was starting to cure.  Once it finished curing, there was very little improvement in the noted microphonics issue.  Basically, it's a "feature" with the Vali amp and nearly impossible to work around.  But, Schiit has apparently been selecting the tubes to minimize the effects to a degree.
  
 Now, putting all the jibber-jabber aside, we all just need to appreciate what it really is.  A $119 amp that's capable of "showing up" the competition a few hundred bucks north of $119.  I've been swapping amps all around over the past few years.  The Vali is the real deal.  Enjoy the amp, put the rest of your cash aside for other upgrades or music.
  
 To get the most out of the Vali:
  
 1) Turn the amp on.
  
 2) Plug in your headphones - preferably with a headphone extension to keep from moving the amp.
  
 3) After about 30 seconds, place the headphones on your head.
  
 4) If you need to apply volume adjustments, do it with the level adjustment in your player itself (e.g. Foobar).
  
  
 Additional:
  
 * Keep the amp on a solid surface so it doesn't jiggle or shake around.
 * Talk nice to it.  
 * Appreciate what you have and the bargain you've obtained for $119.00.
 * Enjoy your music!


----------



## NZheadcase

+1
  
 Great advice wje.


----------



## mikemercer

wje said:


> thegunner100 did a good job of digging up the quotes from Jason.  I still have the "O" rings on my tubes.  When I initially documented the process, the tubes seemed to really quiet down from a microphonics standpoint when the RTV silicon was starting to cure.  Once it finished curing, there was very little improvement in the noted microphonics issue.  Basically, it's a "feature" with the Vali amp and nearly impossible to work around.  But, Schiit has apparently been selecting the tubes to minimize the effects to a degree.
> 
> Now, putting all the jibber-jabber aside, we all just need to appreciate what it really is.  A $119 amp that's capable of "showing up" the competition a few hundred bucks north of $119.  I've been swapping amps all around over the past few years.  The Vali is the real deal.  Enjoy the amp, put the rest of your cash aside for other upgrades or music.
> 
> ...


 
 READ MY MIND!
  
 Thus far, forgetting it's CRAZY-low price, this lil tube headphone amp has been loads of fun!
 But, $119????
  
 I'm just psyched I'm hearing here what I heard at CanJam at RMAF 2013:
 (our CanJam report in Audio360.org - including comments on the Vali)
  
 W/ my LCD-X and Mad Dogs (current version): Thus far (more cans to try of course) the sound is excitable and engaging, warm, but NOT in an overtly romantic or glossed-over kinda way. The sound has all the audiophile buzzwords I've been writing for years: Transparency, detail, authority, hell - taking a cue from @wje  - 
  
 I'm just havin' FUN with this amp! and I'm using the lil HRT microStreamer as the DAC ahead of it (has a dedicated line-out) - because I didn't wanna throw one of my more expensive DACs at it yet.  This lil combo (altogether under 400 bucks) has me tappin my feet, lightin' up, and discovering tunes I haven't listened to in awhile.!!
  
 HATS off @Jason Stoddard and crew!!
  
 My review should be just as glowing as my first impressions in the report if this keeps up!!


----------



## Makiah S

mikemercer said:


> READ MY MIND!
> 
> Thus far, forgetting it's CRAZY-low price, this lil tube headphone amp has been loads of fun!
> But, $119????
> ...


 
 YUP
  
 great amp. Glad I got one


----------



## mikemercer

mshenay said:


> YUP
> 
> great amp. Glad I got one


 
 H__ YEAH!!
  
 Me too!
  
 and I told Jason I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I asked for an industry accommodation price for this one!!


----------



## swannie007

vaibhavp said:


> is vali good for adding some warmth and musicality to analytical sounding cans like akg q701?
> 
> can anyone explain how pair sounds in your experience?
> 
> thanks.




I have this combo and enjoy it very much. I enjoy it a little more than my Vali HD650 combo as I find it a little too laid back for my taste. I prefer a little more of an analytical sound so enjoy the Q701 more but you may find otherwise, it is a very personal thing.
Enjoy the music.


----------



## mikemercer

swannie007 said:


> I have this combo and enjoy it very much. I enjoy it a little more than my Vali HD650 combo as I find it a little too laid back for my taste. I prefer a little more of an analytical sound so enjoy the Q701 more but you may find otherwise, it is a very personal thing.
> Enjoy the music.


 
 A very personal thing indeed!!
 Well said.
  
 After all, we're all reacting to art (music) and the technology that reproduces that art form (which, is itself another form of art)!!
  
 I need resolution, but I also look for something in a system that's difficult to encapsulate: Soul
 I want it to translate the emotive energy of the music. The power in musical expression - and that's not always perfect.
  
 So it all comes down to taste.
 That's only one of the reasons this community is such a great place to share about all these things:
 We all bring different experiences, biases, tastes, and history to our listening experience.
  
 Back to topic:
 The Vali is sounding fantastic over here. I got it isolated on a Bright Star base with a Walker Audio puck atop the chassis because I heard about the noise issues before...
 Honestly, I forget what they said it did (the Walker puck), but I just use it for mass loading - helping to still resonances from continuing past the chassis,
  - that's what sold VPI magic bricks for so long - LOL
  
 and I've been loving my music through it:

 I've been particularly lovin this record - Shlohmo's Pretty Much Amazing EP.
 Dig his mellow, almost-trap like sound...


----------



## jaywillin

mikemercer said:


> RELLY -
> hmmmm
> 
> perhaps the socket???
> ...


 
 jason had responded earlier somewhere, its the choice of tube
 they've changed the adhesive used in the dampening , earlier units were arriving with tubes lifted off the pads.
 i just pushed my tubes back down onto the pads, and i just set my volume, after about 30-60 seconds, no ringing
 no biggie !!


----------



## Makiah S

mikemercer said:


> A very personal thing indeed!!
> Well said.
> 
> After all, we're all reacting to art (music) and the technology that reproduces that art form (which, is itself another form of art)!!
> ...


 
 Again the vali is a magical little tube , the transparency of Solid State the heart and soul of Vaccum Tubes! I need to write up my review still <.<


----------



## mikemercer

mshenay said:


> Again the vali is a magical little tube , the transparency of Solid State the heart and soul of Vaccum Tubes! I need to write up my review still <.<


 
 That's a helluva quote!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I might have to steal it for my review - but I'll give you a credit!!  
 Just kidding
 But, seriously, well put!!
  


jaywillin said:


> jason had responded earlier somewhere, its the choice of tube
> they've changed the adhesive used in the dampening , earlier units were arriving with tubes lifted off the pads.
> i just pushed my tubes back down onto the pads, and i just set my volume, after about 30-60 seconds, no ringing
> no biggie !!


 
 AWESOME
 good to hear!
 I haven't had any issues


----------



## brennanx1

brennanx1 said:


> Hey guys, I just opened mine up to test with the Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm.
> Let me just say that I already notice a difference in sound quality, most likely from the modi I bought as well. Now, there is one thing that I'm wondering about. Since I have to keep my volume kinda high most of the time to drive these headphones, I'm not sure if this is my fault or just the equipment burning in. First of all, the bass isn't as strong as I expected. That may improve later on though because I haven't even used it for an hour. Lastly, I noticed a slight buzzing when there are vocals. It's kinda like the sound your voice makes when you talk in front of a fan. It only happens sometimes, but I'm not really sure.
> 
> Everything is great otherwise, and maybe it will resolve itself when it burns in anyways.


 
  
  


brennanx1 said:


> Well, now that is has burnt in for about 8-10 hours, it has definitely improved. I actually cannot hear the vocal problem anymore. The bass isn't as strong as my other amp, but I was able to fix that with a little EQ adjustment. It sounds 3x better than it did yesterday.


 
  
  
 Hi guys, I'd like to add on to these. 
  
 This amp is amazing, and I can't believe I only spent $120. Now at 20+ hours, the amp is still improving. I optimized my media player's preferences so they use the Modi's full power. I take back everything I said before. It must have been the amp still breaking in. The bass is much better now, and it's still only at 20 hours now. At full volume, there isn't any noticeable distortion anymore either. Again, I'm using DT880 Premium 600 ohm headphones, and using my computer as a source, I have no issues with driving them (and I listen to music kinda loud too).


----------



## RestoredSparda

It...shouldn't...sound...this...good.


----------



## Makiah S

restoredsparda said:


> It...shouldn't...sound...this...good.


 
 Transparency of a solid state, and heart and soul of a tube? That sound about right... yea <.< it really shouldn't but it does!
  
 I guess this... confirms that Jason and his team really know their schiit ;3


----------



## nabwong

brennanx1 said:


> Hi guys, I'd like to add on to these.
> 
> This amp is amazing, and I can't believe I only spent $120. Now at 20+ hours, the amp is still improving. I optimized my media player's preferences so they use the Modi's full power. I take back everything I said before. It must have been the amp still breaking in. The bass is much better now, and it's still only at 20 hours now. At full volume, there isn't any noticeable distortion anymore either. Again, I'm using DT880 Premium 600 ohm headphones, and using my computer as a source, I have no issues with driving them (and I listen to music kinda loud too).




When you say full volume, do you mean the knob the turned up all the way?


----------



## Xyzygy

restoredsparda said:


> It...shouldn't...sound...this...good.


 
  
 I concur. I have well over 100 hours now, and any early issues with the bass are absolute gone. Listening to Shigeto's No Better Time Than Now right now and blissing out.
  
 The only issue I have at this point is that I'm going to have to buy a second Vali so I don't have to transport between work and home.


----------



## RestoredSparda

mshenay said:


> Transparency of a solid state, and heart and soul of a tube? That sound about right... yea <.< it really shouldn't but it does!
> 
> I guess this... confirms that Jason and his team really know their schiit ;3


 
  
 I couldn't have put it better myself. Also, I found myself in a trance with a goofy grin on my face for an entire hour, even though I only had a half hour lunch break. Good stuff indicator.


----------



## tdockweiler

mshenay said:


> me too. My w1000X sounds divine out of my nfb vali combo. While I prefer my dt 880 fully balanced with the nfb10es2
> 
> either way the vali imo is phenominal for the price
> 
> *also a touch south of neutral is a good way to describe it!*


 
  
 IMO the Vali with the Q701/K400 sounded dead neutral to my ears. I'm pretty confident that it was driving these to 100%. I didn't get that feeling with anything else, but I won't go there.
 I actually think with those two it sounded more neutral than the Magni, Asgard 1 and 2. Now why it didn't give similar results for ME with other headphones is probably not something i'll ever figure out...
 Vali with the Q701/K400 sounded about 97% identical in sound signature to my Headroom Micro Amp + astrodyne. That thing has TONS of power too (several watts into 32ohm) and my idea of a totally transparent budget amp.
 The O2 was pretty close too, which is bizarre. Obviously the Vali has very slightly fuller mids and smoother treble.
  
 I wonder what the general consensus of the sound signature of the Vali will be? To me it's close to being transparent with some very minor colorations. This is only with my AKGs though.
  


vaibhavp said:


> is vali good for adding some warmth and musicality to analytical sounding cans like akg q701?
> 
> can anyone explain how pair sounds in your experience?
> 
> thanks.


 
  
 IMO the Q701 should never sound analytical. Maybe with the O2+ODAC, but even then it's not to my ears. The K702 is somewhat.
 I never felt the Vali added anything that wasn't already there on the Q701. And no, my idea of a 1000% transparent amp is not the O2. Maybe i'm wrong.
  
 I would say that the Vali is the 2nd or third best amp i've heard with the Q701. I honestly only suggest it if you use very specific headphones.
  
 BTW I wonder if the Valhalla sounds similar to the Vali with the Q701? Supposedly on paper the Valhalla shouldn't be a good match with the Q701, but I think it actually might be!
 I know it's much weaker for the easier to drive headphones and better for say the HD-600/650 etc. Some call the Valhalla transparent and others say "Very warm". So confusing...
  
 If Schiit had a solid state amp (with no ringing/tubes) that sounded exactly like the Q701 + Vali with EVERYTHING then that'd be amazing. Yep, an amp that good for 95% of every headphone that's not an Ortho or IEM.
  
 I know this will be a surprise to some, but I found the E9 and iFi iCAN even warmer than the Vali + q701. Weird right? That's not a complaint.


----------



## wje

Who's game for taking this amp and converting the tube pins over to the 5-pin sockets for installing the stacks for tube rolling?  In theory, I'm assuming this is possible.  Also, it obviously should address the microphonics issues.  Though, I'm not to sure how the current sound could be FUBARd.  Too many irons in the fire for me to consider this at the moment.  Then again, if this were to happen maybe we could then give it cute name like the *Lil' Lyr*.


----------



## theOmni

I just bought the Vali to drive my q701 and sourced from my Titanium HD sound card! Can't wait to try out this new setup!


----------



## brennanx1

nabwong said:


> When you say full volume, do you mean the knob the turned up all the way?


 
 Yes, I do. I might have my media program at -1 db or so but even at the absolute max volume, I don't hear too much distortion.


----------



## MattTCG

My friend that is way, way too loud. As someone who suffers daily from music at dangerous volumes, I'd respectfully caution against listening in such a manner. Save your hearing!!


----------



## Totoori

I have HD650s coming in and am looking to order the Vali/Modi. I've been recommended BHC and things like HifimeDIY Sabre/O2 and Aune but I really like the style of the Schiit products.  I'm just wondering if there is a better place for me to order it from Canada? The shipping is about $40-50 and that is really putting a hamper on me ordering it...
  
 Do these two devices ever go on sale? Should I be ordering straight from their site? I am not used to products that can only really be ordered from the primary source!
  
 I'm also worried about the stability of my desk. It is not the most stable of devices, but I can wire it to a little further away on a stable location instead. What exactly will happen if I bump my desk? What happens if I am shaking my leg and happen to be tapping the desk?
  
 Thanks! This is a good choice for my HD650s, right?


----------



## MattTCG

Vali/modi is a great choice for the 650 if your budget is around $200/$250. The microphonics of the Vali can't be ignored but shouldn't be blown out of portion. You wouldn't want to put it on a flimsy surface to get the best performance.


----------



## brennanx1

matttcg said:


> My friend that is way, way too loud. As someone who suffers daily from music at dangerous volumes, I'd respectfully caution against listening in such a manner. Save your hearing!!


 
 It's not that loud though. It only would affect your hearing if you listened for long durations at that volume. Have you actually listened to DT880 600ohm with a Vali? 600ohm requires a lot of power...
  


totoori said:


> I have HD650s coming in and am looking to order the Vali/Modi. I've been recommended BHC and things like HifimeDIY Sabre/O2 and Aune but I really like the style of the Schiit products.  I'm just wondering if there is a better place for me to order it from Canada? The shipping is about $40-50 and that is really putting a hamper on me ordering it...
> 
> Do these two devices ever go on sale? Should I be ordering straight from their site? I am not used to products that can only really be ordered from the primary source!
> 
> ...


 
 They do not go on sale, I believe it says so on their website. I bought mine on Amazon and fulfilled by Amazon. Maybe Amazon.ca has them as well?


----------



## Totoori

matttcg said:


> Vali/modi is a great choice for the 650 if your budget is around $200/$250. The microphonics of the Vali can't be ignored but shouldn't be blown out of portion. You wouldn't want to put it on a flimsy surface to get the best performance.


 
 Hi,
  
 This kind of scares me. Could you explain microphonics and/or what I will run into when using the Vali?


----------



## MattTCG

You should get on the Vali thread and get yourself educated. There is page after page of information about this very subject.


----------



## Xyzygy

totoori said:


> I have HD650s coming in and am looking to order the Vali/Modi. I've been recommended BHC and things like HifimeDIY Sabre/O2 and Aune but I really like the style of the Schiit products.  I'm just wondering if there is a better place for me to order it from Canada? The shipping is about $40-50 and that is really putting a hamper on me ordering it...


 
  
 Maybe check with Headphone Bar? They're a Schiit dealer. http://www.headphonebar.com/pages/About-Us.html


----------



## Makiah S

tdockweiler said:


> IMO the Vali with the Q701/K400 sounded dead neutral to my ears. I'm pretty confident that it was driving these to 100%. I didn't get that feeling with anything else, but I won't go there.
> I actually think with those two it sounded more neutral than the Magni, Asgard 1 and 2. Now why it didn't give similar results for ME with other headphones is probably not something i'll ever figure out...
> Vali with the Q701/K400 sounded about 97% identical in sound signature to my Headroom Micro Amp + astrodyne. That thing has TONS of power too (several watts into 32ohm) and my idea of a totally transparent budget amp.
> The O2 was pretty close too, which is bizarre. Obviously the Vali has very slightly fuller mids and smoother treble.


 
 Compared to my pb1 and NFB10ES2 the Vali is warmer than both, it's more transparent and natrual than my PB1 but warmer still.


----------



## geogga

kstuart said:


> The Emotiva Mini-X is one of the most highly recommended amps for headphones on this Forum. You should not need another amp.  See:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project


 
 Sorry for bothering you again, but infact this was my option before discovering the magni. Would this be better than the magni/vali?
 If so, Emotiva vs matrix mstage?


----------



## Totoori

matttcg said:


> You should get on the Vali thread and get yourself educated. There is page after page of information about this very subject.


 
 Thanks! We are on the Vali thread, aren't we? =p I'll do some digging, figured it would be easier to just ask since there are a billion pages, though...
  
 I tried to order from Amazon.com to Canada and they wouldn't ship it to me. I guess I'm stuck with the $40-50 shipping =p
  
 I did some digging and it looks like the issue comes when it is first turned on and/or headphones plugged in only for about a minute. I will only be using one pair of headphones and nothing will ever move. Am I meant to be turning off the amp when I am not using it or something? I generally keep my PC on at all times, and often have something in the background (game, music, etc) running when I am not at the PC at basically all times. 

 Am I misunderstanding?


----------



## MattTCG

Nope, I think you've got it. See the comments from wje for a nice concise wrapup.


----------



## Totoori

matttcg said:


> Nope, I think you've got it. See the comments from wje for a nice concise wrapup.


 
 Thanks! Kind of. I did some searching on WJE and didn't find much on the microphonics but instead just found that he does not like the HD650+Vali and much prefers his Magni!
  
 Hahahaha. =)


----------



## MattTCG

Two pages back...
  
  
 thegunner100 did a good job of digging up the quotes from Jason.  I still have the "O" rings on my tubes.  When I initially documented the process, the tubes seemed to really quiet down from a microphonics standpoint when the RTV silicon was starting to cure.  Once it finished curing, there was very little improvement in the noted microphonics issue.  Basically, it's a "feature" with the Vali amp and nearly impossible to work around.  But, Schiit has apparently been selecting the tubes to minimize the effects to a degree.
  
 Now, putting all the jibber-jabber aside, we all just need to appreciate what it really is.  A $119 amp that's capable of "showing up" the competition a few hundred bucks north of $119.  I've been swapping amps all around over the past few years.  The Vali is the real deal.  Enjoy the amp, put the rest of your cash aside for other upgrades or music.
  
 To get the most out of the Vali:
  
 1) Turn the amp on.
  
 2) Plug in your headphones - preferably with a headphone extension to keep from moving the amp.
  
 3) After about 30 seconds, place the headphones on your head.
  
 4) If you need to apply volume adjustments, do it with the level adjustment in your player itself (e.g. Foobar).
  
  
 Additional:
  
 * Keep the amp on a solid surface so it doesn't jiggle or shake around.
 * Talk nice to it.  
 * Appreciate what you have and the bargain you've obtained for $119.00.
 * Enjoy your music!


----------



## MickeyVee

Choose USPS shipping from Schiit's site.. as I recall, it was about $22 to Canada when I ordered mine.
 Quote:


totoori said:


> I tried to order from Amazon.com to Canada and they wouldn't ship it to me. I guess I'm stuck with the $40-50 shipping =p


----------



## nabwong

brennanx1 said:


> It's not that loud though. It only would affect your hearing if you listened for long durations at that volume. Have you actually listened to DT880 600ohm with a Vali? 600ohm requires a lot of power...
> 
> They do not go on sale, I believe it says so on their website. I bought mine on Amazon and fulfilled by Amazon. Maybe Amazon.ca has them as well?




Oh. I didn't see you were using the 600ohm 880. I'm using the he400 and I have my volume knob on 10 o clock max.


----------



## Makiah S

nabwong said:


> Oh. I didn't see you were using the 600ohm 880. I'm using the he400 and I have my volume knob on 10 o clock max.


 
 I don't go higher than 10 o Clock my self either with the Vali and that's using my DT 880 600 ohm and my w100-x. Although my NFB 10ES2 has a High Gain and Low Gain output Stage for the Dacs PreAmp mode [and yes I have it set to "fixed"] So... it's proving very useful with the Vali


----------



## kstuart

geogga said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > The Emotiva Mini-X is one of the most highly recommended amps for headphones on this Forum. You should not need another amp.  See:
> ...


 
 I have not actually used the Emotiva, which is why I carefully worded it as "one of the most highly recommended amps for headphones on this Forum".  If I did not have a vintage power amp that is similar, I would probably have ordered an Emotiva for my planar headphones.
  
 More than that would require some one else to respond who has used it.


----------



## Totoori

Thanks. I ordered it. The shipping sucks, but oh well!
  
 He must have changed his mind on it, from what I saw in his earlier posts he was not happy with it.
  
 Do I need any additional cables or anything? I have absolutely nothing but whatever comes with Vali/Modi/HD650. If I do, does it matter which I get?


----------



## MickeyVee

^^ PYST Cables - need to connect the Vali to the Modi  - update your order with Schiit so there is no additional shipping charges - pay once.
 You'll also need a USB Cable - the Schiit / Wireworld cable would be great @ $20.  So add another $40 for PYST RCA and PYST USB.


----------



## Totoori

mickeyvee said:


> ^^ PYST Cables - need to connect the Vali to the Modi  - update your order with Schiit so there is no additional change other than the cable.
> You'll also need a USB Cable - the Schiit / Wireworld cable would be great @ $20.  So add another $40 for PYST and USB.


 
  
 Thanks. PYST RCA or PYST XLR? Is there a quality difference between these and something much cheaper from Amazon?


----------



## MickeyVee

PYST RCA - you can go with others but the cables are nice for $20 and you'll have a hard time getting a 6" cable that's nice and will stack well with the two.  Don't forget the USB cable. Again, nice for $20 and you get them all in one shot.


----------



## mikemercer

WOW
 it might be total overkill - but using this MacIntosh D100 (DAC/digital pre-amp/headphone amp) that I got in for review
 in front of the Vali!  LOL
  
 Like I said, I know it's overkill - but it's really showing me the Vali's potential!
 Driving my Audeze LCD-X or Alpha Dogs - the bottom end is punctuated fiercely  - the mids clean with smooth velocity,
 and the highs are extended w/ magnificent sparkle.
  
 This is an addictive combo!
  
 I also put this small Music Hall DAC ahead of it earlier (have to look at the model number) and that match was superb.
  
 I'm SO psyched to have a small, modern, slick affordable hybrid tube headphone amp to recommend to friends just getting
 into this! Most of my prior recommendations were smaller, limited power units...


----------



## geogga

mikemercer said:


> WOW
> it might be total overkill - but using this MacIntosh D100 (DAC/digital pre-amp/headphone amp) that I got in for review
> in front of the Vali!  LOL
> 
> ...



Bass?


----------



## MickeyVee

Not overkill.. have used the Naim DAC-V1 (think they're in the same league) with the Vali - pretty sweet but I prefer the Naim built in amp.

  
 How's the D100 built in HP amp?? It was on my list but I got a killer deal on the Naim so skipped the D100 totally.
  
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


> WOW
> it might be total overkill - but using this MacIntosh D100 (DAC/digital pre-amp/headphone amp) that I got in for review
> in front of the Vali!  LOL


----------



## jpalenzuela

How is the vali paired with HD600, Alessandro MS2 and sr325i? Wich is better for rock (alternative/indie).


----------



## Katun

Finally ordered the Vali. I'll be trying it out with the HD700. 
  
 Anyone think a tube-based DAC would pair well with the Vali, or is that bad synergy or something?


----------



## benjaminhuypham

I feel like Vali Order waiting list is started from LA to NY in length. Schiit guys' net worth must be surpassed Bill Gates's net worth at the end of this year, Lol. But I'll order one when I get HD600


----------



## oopeteroo

im thinking of ordering vali+modi and a hd650 or hd598.
I have the Audio-GD NFB-11.32 with he500 right now.

will modi+vali be a good combo for hd598?
will this combo beat modi+vali with hd650?
or Audio-GD NFB-11.32 with hd650 ?


----------



## Makiah S

oopeteroo said:


> im thinking of ordering vali+modi and a hd650 or hd598.
> I have the Audio-GD NFB-11.32 with he500 right now.
> 
> will modi+vali be a good combo for hd598?
> ...


 
 Dpn't get the Modo of you already have an NFB11.32 that unit is a Dac amp combo right? If so use the line outs on the back of your NFB 11.32 to drive into the Vali. That's what I'm doing right now, my NFb 10ES2 is driving my Vali.


----------



## Misterrogers

wje said:


> Who's game for taking this amp and converting the tube pins over to the 5-pin sockets for installing the stacks for tube rolling?  In theory, I'm assuming this is possible.  Also, it obviously should address the microphonics issues.  Though, I'm not to sure how the current sound could be FUBARd.  Too many irons in the fire for me to consider this at the moment.  Then again, if this were to happen maybe we could then give it cute name like the *Lil' Lyr*.


 
 Honestly don't think it'd be worth it. Much of the reason Vali performs as it does, is that it's been finely tuned to the specific curve, optimum linear range, optimal power requirements and I suspect components in the hybrid part of the circuit where probably chosen for their synergy with this tube. I love to 'roll' myself, but really - it should be saved for amps designed for it.


----------



## oopeteroo

mshenay said:


> Dpn't get the Modo of you already have an NFB11.32 that unit is a Dac amp combo right? If so use the line outs on the back of your NFB 11.32 to drive into the Vali. That's what I'm doing right now, my NFb 10ES2 is driving my Vali.


 
 yeah i know. but if i buy the vali i think i will buy the modi 2, cause its sexier xD
  
 so my questions is still:
 will modi+vali be a good combo for hd598?
 will this combo beat modi+vali with hd650?
 or Audio-GD NFB-11.32 with hd650 ?


----------



## theOmni

There's a modi 2??


----------



## geogga

totoori said:


> Thanks. PYST RCA or PYST XLR? Is there a quality difference between these and something much cheaper from Amazon?



I got both cables from monoprice for 1/7 the price. Shipping included.
Forgot to mention I got the Modi and magni. Decided I didn't get the Vali or the other amps I was thinking about. Praying it sounds nice and hope it kills my current setup.


----------



## PXSS

theomni said:


> There's a modi 2??


I "THINK" he meant '... I will buy the modi too...'


----------



## theOmni

Ohhh....I'm an idiot.


----------



## leesure

I really didn't have a good home for a Vali in my systems, but now I do! I recently set up a turntable for the first time in years. Oddly, I found that neither the Mjolnir nor the Woo WA22 sound even close to their best when fed a single ended source...like the output from my phono preamp*. So I now have an order placed for a Vali which will be fed from the phono preamp and will drive my various LCD's.

*interesting aside...the Woo WA22 fed by the SE source sounded closed in with almost no treble whatsoever. The Mjolnir was just the opposite, super bright and fatiguing. Neither amp sounded like that when fed a balanced source.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

misterrogers said:


> Honestly don't think it'd be worth it. Much of the reason Vali performs as it does, is that it's been finely tuned to the specific curve, optimum linear range, optimal power requirements and I suspect components in the hybrid part of the circuit where probably chosen for their synergy with this tube. I love to 'roll' myself, but really - it should be saved for amps designed for it.


 

  Also there isn't too much at those heater voltages that are worth rolling! It is the ultimate non rolling amp, what you have is what you get. Rather good in my book


----------



## jaywillin

mikemercer said:


> WOW
> it might be total overkill - but using this MacIntosh D100 (DAC/digital pre-amp/headphone amp) that I got in for review
> in front of the Vali!  LOL
> 
> ...


 

 mike, you know guys like us don't do anything half-assed! 
 overkill is a good thing !
 yesterday, the vali was in front of the wadia 121
 today, the ifi idac


----------



## ryant

I got my T50rp cans last night and immediately had to give them a run on the Modi/Vali stack without modifications. Boy what a mess!! I could tell there was some potential there since the sound was definitely detailed. I could hear all the little background nuances but it honestly sounded as if I had pillows between my ears and the headphones. It wasn't even worth really evaluating them in that state. I had ordered the supplies to mod them so I somewhat skeptically set to work last evening. It took about two hours to complete the DBV #3 mods. When I plugged them back in and ran my test tracks my jaw hit the floor. I couldn't believe how much the sound changed. All the details were brought back in line. I wont go into much about the T50rp set since that would be more of a review about the cans and not the Vali. I will say however they pair REALLY well in my opinion. They are a bit more sensitive than my HE-300's but that was not an issue. In fact I can't really hear any sound floor at all. It's a bit odd since they are 50 Ohm's just like the HE-300's but are a bit more sensitive. I think it's due to the signature of the t50rp's. Anyway I can confirm (at least to my ears) that they work like a charm on the Vali and I'm one extremely happy camper.


----------



## Makiah S

ryant said:


> I got my T50rp cans last night and immediately had to give them a run on the Modi/Vali stack without modifications. Boy what a mess!! I could tell there was some potential there since the sound was definitely detailed. I could hear all the little background nuances but it honestly sounded as if I had pillows between my ears and the headphones. It wasn't even worth really evaluating them in that state. I had ordered the supplies to mod them so I somewhat skeptically set to work last evening. It took about two hours to complete the DBV #3 mods. When I plugged them back in and ran my test tracks my jaw hit the floor. I couldn't believe how much the sound changed. All the details were brought back in line. I wont go into much about the T50rp set since that would be more of a review about the cans and not the Vali. I will say however they pair REALLY well in my opinion. They are a bit more sensitive than my HE-300's but that was not an issue. In fact I can't really hear any sound floor at all. It's a bit odd since they are 50 Ohm's just like the HE-300's but are a bit more sensitive. I think it's due to the signature of the t50rp's. Anyway I can confirm (at least to my ears) that they work like a charm on the Vali and I'm one extremely happy camper.


 
 Nice, good to hear the modded T50Rp works with the vali!


----------



## swannie007

I have just discovered an unusual combination of headphone with the modi/vali combo. I am listening to this combo with my Pioneer SE-A1000 cans and it sounds GREAT! I am quite surprised as these cans are not very expensive and I use them to watch tv when my wife is sleeping as they have a super long lead. Anyway, they are a very good combo IMO and it just goes to show that synergy between gear often overcomes a modest budget. Just wanted to share this info for those with limited budgets. These cans are a GREAT buy and certainly punch above their weight. Best wishes for the New Year from "Down Under".


----------



## 1llest

Whats a good Dac with this amp?


----------



## PXSS

Schiit Modi.


----------



## jexby

I have connected it to BiFrost Uber and Concero HD, both sounded superb with zero complaints.
Daily use I leave Vali connected to Uber with my HD600.


----------



## UmustBKidn

wje said:


> Who's game for taking this amp and converting the tube pins over to the 5-pin sockets for installing the stacks for tube rolling?  In theory, I'm assuming this is possible.  Also, it obviously should address the microphonics issues.  Though, I'm not to sure how the current sound could be FUBARd.  Too many irons in the fire for me to consider this at the moment.  Then again, if this were to happen maybe we could then give it cute name like the *Lil' Lyr*.


 
  
 +1
  
 This thought has crossed (what's left of) my mind more than once. Adding sockets would be very possible, of that I am sure. There is not much room on that PCB though - it looks pretty crowded already, from the picture on the Schiit website. There may be some room underneath where the glass is currently laying down, but I'd have to get a visual on the underside of the board to be sure. Personally, it would look way better to me with sockets mounted to the top of the chassis, so the whole schebang is on top for easy access.
  
 What I don't know and haven't researched, are what kind of direct substitutes there are for the stock tubes ... and if there are any vintage tubes of this size.
  
 First, I want to mod one of my Bravo V2's to have it handy for comparison. The parts just arrived yesterday. Don't ask me why I keep chasing down that rabbit hole. lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just stubborn, adventurous, or dumb. Take your pick.
  
 My train of thought also wondered if the Vali could be converted to use a dual triode tube, a la 12AU7's. I have a whole bunch of those laying around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But that would be a lot of guesswork on my part. I'm not an EE after all, I'm just brave with a soldering iron hah. But something in me wants to know what a Vali would sound like with a 50's vintage d-getter Mullard driving it.


----------



## UmustBKidn

totoori said:


> Thanks. PYST RCA or PYST XLR? Is there a quality difference between these and something much cheaper from Amazon?


 
  
 The "cheap" cables from amazon are only a few dollars cheaper. The Schiit cables _are _already cheap lol. If you want to compare with expensive cables, check out the blue jeans cables.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

umustbkidn said:


> +1
> 
> This thought has crossed (what's left of) my mind more than once. Adding sockets would be very possible, of that I am sure. There is not much room on that PCB though - it looks pretty crowded already, from the picture on the Schiit website. There may be some room underneath where the glass is currently laying down, but I'd have to get a visual on the underside of the board to be sure. Personally, it would look way better to me with sockets mounted to the top of the chassis, so the whole schebang is on top for easy access.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 you will need to build a new power supply for the heaters, the 6088 needs a 'battery' supply of 1.2v and the sort of tubes you are talking about are 6.3 / 12.6v and need vastly different currents. You will need a new high voltage supply to operate these 9 pin tubes as the voltage and bias aren't close for your tube. You will need to add some physical sockets also from the 5 pins the 6088 uses to a nine pin socket for the tube you suggest. You are basically talking a new amp  but if you are going down that route try one of these for a starters.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190889436014?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
  
 it will allow you to mount a socket of your choice and run the flying leads to the Vali and other leads from your separate PSUs. and I thought the LD DIYs had gone weird in their mods  at least their amp was designed to roll even if some of the tubes rolled now need serious adapters / PSUs / DIY.


----------



## BlainD

I am under 20 hours into burning mine in. Nearly constant ringing. That's bad right?


----------



## kvtaco17

nic rhodes said:


> you will need to build a new power supply for the heaters, the 6088 needs a 'battery' supply of 1.2v and the sort of tubes you are talking about are 6.3 / 12.6v and need vastly different currents. You will need a new high voltage supply to operate these 9 pin tubes as the voltage and bias aren't close for your tube. You will need to add some physical sockets also from the 5 pins the 6088 uses to a nine pin socket for the tube you suggest. You are basically talking a new amp  but if you are going down that route try one of these for a starters.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190889436014?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
> 
> it will allow you to mount a socket of your choice and run the flying leads to the Vali and other leads from your separate PSUs. and I thought the LD DIYs had gone weird in their mods  at least their amp was designed to roll even if some of the tubes rolled now need serious adapters / PSUs / DIY.


 

 In the LD tube rolling thread we've been messing around with external power  supplies to run 6V/12V dual triodes, octals and the such. I actually completed my secondary PSU today...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/4365#post_10071424
  
 something like that could work. I did similar BUT I put it in an aluminum enclosure that sits over the old sockets for a much cleaner look.    
  
 Us LD rollers have lost our minds lol


----------



## blasjw

blaind said:


> I am under 20 hours into burning mine in. Nearly constant ringing. That's bad right?


 
 Yep, that's bad.  On mine didn't notice any until I checked for it by tapping on it.  Even then, it was very faint, only on one channel, and dissipated quickly.


----------



## BlainD

blasjw said:


> Yep, that's bad.  On mine didn't notice any until I checked for it by tapping on it.  Even then, it was very faint, only on one channel, and dissipated quickly.


 
 Thank you. Just wanted to make sure before talking to the company.


----------



## UmustBKidn

nic rhodes said:


> you will need to build a new power supply for the heaters, the 6088 needs a 'battery' supply of 1.2v and the sort of tubes you are talking about are 6.3 / 12.6v and need vastly different currents. You will need a new high voltage supply to operate these 9 pin tubes as the voltage and bias aren't close for your tube. You will need to add some physical sockets also from the 5 pins the 6088 uses to a nine pin socket for the tube you suggest. You are basically talking a new amp  but if you are going down that route try one of these for a starters.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190889436014?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
> 
> it will allow you to mount a socket of your choice and run the flying leads to the Vali and other leads from your separate PSUs. and I thought the LD DIYs had gone weird in their mods  at least their amp was designed to roll even if some of the tubes rolled now need serious adapters / PSUs / DIY.


 
  
 I see. Well, thanks for that, I didn't know it would be that involved. Doesn't seem worth the trouble.
  
 It's good to know that those PC boards exist though, that surely would have come in handy.


----------



## mikemercer

jaywillin said:


> mike, you know guys like us don't do anything half-assed!
> overkill is a good thing !
> yesterday, the vali was in front of the wadia 121
> today, the ifi idac


 
 that sounds like a KILLER combo!!
  
 About to try the Vali on my current reference DAC (as opposed to the seductive sound of the D100): The Mytek Stereo-192 DSD DAC...
  
 I'm pumped to hear it!
  
 BTW - I'm not sure if mass-loading the amp chassis could have ANY effect on the ringing, since it's reportedly inside the tube - but nonetheless, 
 I tend to do it when dealing with a lighter component - and thus far I'm just having a BLAST with the Vali!!


----------



## 1llest

I feel the need to upgrade my Matrix M-Stage but I dont know how the Vali is compare to Fiio E09K or M-Stage


----------



## Maxvla

HE-400 might be close to noise threshold on the Vali, but should be fine on the M-Stage as you already know. The new M-Stage is mostly about upgrading the DAC portion of the USB DAC equipped model (the HPA-1 w/USB is kinda bad using on board DAC). There are some minor amp upgrades, but unless you are unhappy currently, I'd just stick with what you have. I might be able to compare the first version and second version in a couple of weeks, I'll try to remember to let you know what I find.


----------



## mikemercer

jaywillin said:


> mike, you know guys like us don't do anything half-assed!
> overkill is a good thing !
> yesterday, the vali was in front of the wadia 121
> today, the ifi idac


 
 Thanks for posting this response Jay!
  
 I tried the Wadia 121 tonight in front of the Vali tonight as opposed to the Mytek.
 I finally got my hands on one (the 121) and I've been eager to match it up with a tube or hybrid tube headphone amp,
 and you inspired me to do so! They are an excellent sonic pairing.
  
 Products like the Vali bring things back to Earth for me.
 Coming from the high end two-channel background years ago, where there's so much snake oil, and over-priced snake oil at that - things like the Vali remind me of hearing Andrew Jones excitement about his $89 Pioneer two-ways at RMAF two years ago - he was more excited to play those for me than his 20k TAD loudspeakers!
  
 We talked about how challenging it is to build a great product for less.
 He seemed so proud of those Pioneers, and he had reason to be.
  
 When Jason teased Warren (warrenpchi) and me about the Vali at the California Audio Show earlier this year we were drooling to hear what was coming!
 I'm definitely not giving this review sample back!


----------



## Makiah S

1llest said:


> I feel the need to upgrade my Matrix M-Stage but I dont know how the Vali is compare to Fiio E09K or M-Stage


 
 Not sure if I mentioned this or not, but I owned a Matrix M Stage [Solid State Amp] and honestly the Vali isn't nearly as warm as my M Stage was :O yea it lacks the gain controls [the NFb es2 has those on it's line out... YAY] but sound quality wise I find it a step above! And I rolled an LME 49990 OP Amp into my unit...
  
 my point being it sounds good, how ever if ur talking about the m Stage dac... I can't help you much there >.>


----------



## jaywillin

mikemercer said:


> Thanks for posting this response Jay!
> 
> *I tried the Wadia 121 tonight in front of the Vali tonight as opposed to the Mytek.*
> *I finally got my hands on one (the 121) and I've been eager to match it up with a tube or hybrid tube headphone amp,*
> ...


 
 and what about the 121's headphone out ? its no slouch by itself !!
 and when you consider it can be an "all in one" desk top piece, amp/dac/pre, its a good value, especially when you get it when its Todd the Vinyl Junkies DEAL OF THE DAY !!


----------



## Misterrogers

1llest said:


> Whats a good Dac with this amp?


 
 One of the good qualities of this little amp is that it seems to scale very well with DAC's. Using my uber DAC's with Vali reveals more inner detail, dynamics and separation.


----------



## wje

I've found another "alternative" base for the Vali amp that users could opt for if needed.  The particular device I purchased was from an air conditioning and heating supply house.  With my contractor's discount, it was only $1.10 for the 4" x 4" version.  However, they did have quite a few size options.  For example: a 1.5" x 1.5" square - if using one per corner.  A larger 8" x 8" square.  Some rectangular options in sizes as well as an all-rubber version without cork as a layer.
  
 Pics as follows:
  
 The anti-vibration pad consists of 3 layers.  Two rubber outer layers and a middle layer constructed of cork.
  

  
 A view of the ribbed rubber outer layer.
  

  
  
 Placed into position.  In my example, the 4 rubber feet on the bottom of the amp are spaced out a bit too wide.  However, they could be removed, kept as-is, or even brought closer together so they can sit on top of the pad itself.


----------



## nabwong

blaind said:


> I am under 20 hours into burning mine in. Nearly constant ringing. That's bad right?




Have u opened the chassis to check if the tubes are firmly down?


----------



## MattTCG

Looks promising Wayne. What are the results? Any improvement?


----------



## BlainD

Deleted do to accidental redundancy.


----------



## BlainD

nabwong said:


> Have u opened the chassis to check if the tubes are firmly down?


I saw (who I think is) an official spokesman for Schiit on this thread say it wouldn't effect the warranty if it was opened but am weary on a straight return. I saw about the foam but couldn't find exactly how to fix it ect also. This post is deep and hard to dig through. Should I try to correct it? Personally I would much rather fix it than return it.


----------



## imackler

blaind said:


> Thank you. Just wanted to make sure before talking to the company.


 
 I had the same problem. They hooked me up with a new one.


----------



## MattTCG

Schiit=some of the best customer service in the business, period.


----------



## nabwong

blaind said:


> I saw (who I think is) an official spokesman for Schiit on this thread say it wouldn't effect the warranty if it was opened but am weary on a straight return. I saw about the foam but couldn't find exactly how to fix it ect also. This post is deep and hard to dig through. Should I try to correct it? Personally I would much rather fix it than return it.




Really easy to check. 4 screws. Cover comes off easily. Just ensure the tubes are pressed down. Use your fingers. I also had a capacitor that was bent. Don't know why. So I straightened it.


----------



## BlainD

Thanks to all for the support! I have been in contact with Schiit and so far have had excellent customer service. I thi k I will unscrew my case and peep inside real fast to see what is in there. They said this would not violate the warranty so what do I really have to lose?


----------



## BlainD

I opened it and it didn't seem like the tubes were sticking up. I pushed them down some just the same. Problem gone! For now. Will report later.


----------



## wje

matttcg said:


> Looks promising Wayne. What are the results? Any improvement?


 
  
 In my case, not really.  My desk is a couple of hundred pounds and doesn't move.  However, I think it would work good for those who have a keyboard close to their amp or other such situations.  
  
 I'm going to buy up some more of these when I do the full heat pump swap in the attic coming up.   We could probably market these as high-end sound stoppers, too.  A buck a piece ... probably some die hard audiophiles willing to pay $50 or more each to have better isolation.
  
 There are times when I like the Vali, yet with the DT-888, it needs a bit EQ adjustment to bring the upper frequencies down a bit.  The Matrix M-Stage seems a bit closer to neutral in that regard.  But, I still can't get over the quality of bass from the Vali.  Applying some EQ based on the headphones I use with the Vali isn't too much of a hassle as Foobar permits one to save pre-sets.


----------



## thegunner100

wje said:


> In my case, not really.  My desk is a couple of hundred pounds and doesn't move.  However, I think it would work good for those who have a keyboard close to their amp or other such situations.
> 
> I'm going to buy up some more of these when I do the full heat pump swap in the attic coming up.   We could probably market these as high-end sound stoppers, too.  A buck a piece ... probably some die hard audiophiles willing to pay $50 or more each to have better isolation.
> 
> There are times when I like the Vali, yet with the DT-888, it needs a bit EQ adjustment to bring the upper frequencies down a bit.  The Matrix M-Stage seems a bit closer to neutral in that regard.  But, I still can't get over the quality of bass from the Vali.  Applying some EQ based on the headphones I use with the Vali isn't too much of a hassle as Foobar permits one to save pre-sets.


 

 Indeed... I use a little bit of PEQ to bring down the area around 6khz, even with the anax 2.0 mod. The Vali is on the bright side after all.


----------



## geogga

wje said:


> In my case, not really.  My desk is a couple of hundred pounds and doesn't move.  However, I think it would work good for those who have a keyboard close to their amp or other such situations.
> 
> I'm going to buy up some more of these when I do the full heat pump swap in the attic coming up.   We could probably market these as high-end sound stoppers, too.  A buck a piece ... probably some die hard audiophiles willing to pay $50 or more each to have better isolation.
> 
> There are times when I like the Vali, yet with the DT-888, it needs a bit EQ adjustment to bring the upper frequencies down a bit.  The Matrix M-Stage seems a bit closer to neutral in that regard.  But, I still can't get over the quality of bass from the Vali.  Applying some EQ based on the headphones I use with the Vali isn't too much of a hassle as Foobar permits one to save pre-sets.


 
 What do you mean when you say, "I still can't get over the quality of bass from the Vali?" Is it a good thing or bad thing?


----------



## wje

geogga said:


> What do you mean when you say, "I still can't get over the quality of bass from the Vali?" Is it a good thing or bad thing?


 
  
 Yes.  A good thing.  Quite a good thing.


----------



## vaibhavp

thegunner100 said:


> Indeed... I use a little bit of PEQ to bring down the area around 6khz, even with the anax 2.0 mod. The Vali is on the bright side after all.


 

 is it sibilant on bright headphones ? (its a tube amp after all)


----------



## wje

nabwong said:


> Really easy to check. 4 screws. Cover comes off easily. Just ensure the tubes are pressed down. Use your fingers. *I also had a capacitor that was bent. Don't know why.* So I straightened it.


 
  
 A bent cap isn't a deal breaker.  That can happen virtually in any piece of electronics.  I'd be more worried about cold solder joints than a slightly bent cap.
  


vaibhavp said:


> is it sibilant on bright headphones ? (its a tube amp after all)


 
  
 It can depend on your headphones.  I wouldn't use the word sibilant.  Sibiliance tends to be more of an issue with female vocals and I've really never had an amp or DAC that made the issue worse.  If it's the headphone, even using the EQ to correct that issue can be hard to fully resolve.
  
 The Vali has a nice frequency range to it.  Most people tend to think tubes are a warmer sounding device.  Yet, there are many variables involved - including op-amps, etc. if they are present.


----------



## karlsonklam

Schiit is a small company with big ideas - I'd love to see them make a great 2-channel A-D converter aimed at the vinyl ripper.


----------



## thegunner100

vaibhavp said:


> is it sibilant on bright headphones ? (its a tube amp after all)


 

 Like Wje said, it mainly depends on the headphones used. The vali doesn't do anything to make it better or worse.


----------



## nabwong

wje said:


> A bent cap isn't a deal breaker.  That can happen virtually in any piece of electronics.  I'd be more worried about cold solder joints than a slightly bent cap.




It wasn't slight. It was bent all the way down to the board but I do not notice any particular problems with the amp so no harm no foul.


----------



## geogga

wje said:


> Yes.  A good thing.  Quite a good thing.


 
 mmmm...that's great to hear. So suprisingly the mad dogs are being delivered today, and I ordered on the 27th with the lowest shipping option. *dances happily inside*
 But I have canceled my Schiit modi/magni order because I want to get more research done; I hate returning and the 15% restocking fee+shipping ehhh. I want to listen to the mad dogs for a good amount, and will try to go from there...
 I have my DAC choice (modi) but my amp choices are still the magni vali and o2...Some say that since the Dogs are warm and got good "synergy"( I guess good pairing?) with the said-to-be bright magni. but I'm coming off the bass heavy Beats Studios so I would like to gain a bit more bass with the dogs.
 Oh boy...Gotta make up my mind..


----------



## droido256

Question how long do triodes last? I remember a old tube tv my aunt had that required frequent changes of the tubes.  Also comparing this to say the magni for a 20 buck difference is it worth it? Im kinda stuck between the magni, and the vali. for say nightwish, kamelot, edenbridge, etc as my main music type being fed to tp50rp's, beyer dt 990 pros and akg k701, which might be better overall?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

They should be good for upto 15,000 hrs and are pennies to replace currently. If you use it 1 hr a day, it should last you 40 years  The tube is likely to last longer however...


----------



## droido256

Aaaaaah kewl niiice. Hmmmmm aaaaah fk...... Bye bye money >_< ......... Sigh......


----------



## BlainD

Much improvement after pushing the tubes down. After a few hours the ringing came back. Could I have a sensitive tube as well as needed the tubes adjusted?


----------



## ravager

blaind said:


> Much improvement after pushing the tubes down. After a few hours the ringing came back. Could I have a sensitive tube as well as needed the tubes adjusted?


 
 I think this is a unit that really needs to be replaced. a "constant" ringing is not a good thing, and previous thread participants have gotten replacements from Schiit. Make the call and get back in the saddle!


----------



## Katun

Just received mine. Serial #911, and both tubes are lying flat.
  
 While I've heard they're a great entry pairing for the HD800, has anyone experienced it with the T1?


----------



## Xyzygy

Used to think that the headphone output of my iFi iDAC hit all the superlatives ... Now I can't stand it. Just sounds dense and cluttered. The DAC sure works well with the Vali, though.


----------



## jaywillin

xyzygy said:


> Used to think that the headphone output of my iFi iDAC hit all the superlatives ... Now I can't stand it. Just sounds dense and cluttered. The DAC sure works well with the Vali, though.



I've got the same combo, my"little system" lol


----------



## Xyzygy

jaywillin said:


> I've got the same combo, my"little system" lol


 
  
 And same net result?


----------



## jaywillin

xyzygy said:


> And same net result?



Its amazing how good it sounds


----------



## ryant

In regards to the ringing. If I use my sennheiser hd439's I hear constant ringing. It's low but there. With my fisted t50rp and he-300 cans, there is nothing even if I two the case, etc. It could be your cans and not the amp (unless they are cans that others have used without issue)


----------



## hmorneau

katun said:


> Just received mine. Serial #911, and both tubes are lying flat.
> 
> While I've heard they're a great entry pairing for the HD800, has anyone experienced it with the T1?


 
 I have the Vali and the T1, and I don't think they pair well. The Vali is not resolving enough and it's bass are too slow to get the most of your T1. By too slow, I mean the damping factor is probably lower, not sure how you call that in hifi terms. Not a bad amp, but you won't get everything from the T1 with that amp. Also, I feel that everything is less detailed with the Vali, I try to get used to it's sound signature, but I always end up replugin my T1 in my auditor.
  
 I have the DT880 600ohms as well and I think they pair better with the Vali, even if the T1 sound better. Basically the DT880 are slower than the T1, so you don't feel that the Vali is slower, because the DT880 are already maxed out in terms of speed with it. The sound stage is also as large as it can get with the DT880 on the Vali. The T1 have a larger soundstage then the DT880 on the Vali, but it's not as large then what I get with the auditor.
  
 Basically after reading all the comments on how good the Vali is, and how better it is to way more expensive amps, I came to the conclusion that the T1 is not a good match with it or that I simply don't like the "tube" sound and I'm more a SS guy. (or that some people get rip off by some company who sell more expensive amp...) Who knows, it's so subjective.


----------



## Transformatron

Yep. Good stuff.


----------



## UmustBKidn

droido256 said:


> Question how long do triodes last? I remember a old tube tv my aunt had that required frequent changes of the tubes.  Also comparing this to say the magni for a 20 buck difference is it worth it? Im kinda stuck between the magni, and the vali. for say nightwish, kamelot, edenbridge, etc as my main music type being fed to tp50rp's, beyer dt 990 pros and akg k701, which might be better overall?


 
  
 An excellent question. Your Aunt's TV was probably harder on the tubes, and the tubes probably ran hotter, than a Schiit Vali (or a preamp that uses a Triode)... Triode's used as preamp tubes just don't run that hot (and heat is the enemy - simply put, a hotter circuit drives the tube harder and shortens its life). You can buy Triode tubes made in the 1950's on eBay that still work just fine (and will probably out-live me).
  
 Yes, I grew up with TV's that had tubes in them too. Curiously, they did not need to be replaced that often. I remember making the trip to Thrifty Drug Store and Radio Shack with my Dad to replace a tube now and then, but it didn't happen very often. By the time Color TV's came out, we got rid of most of the Black and White units hah. When solid state came out, we got rid of the Color tube TV's. So technology was really the end of the tube - the longevity of tube devices rarely came into play.
  
 I still have a couple working solid state TV's built in the 80's, that are totally unusable now, because the transmission of TV signals has changed to Digital. Once again, technology put an end to their usable life. No, I'm not going to buy a converter box. It's not worth it to me - the TV's are too expensive to run. I may eventually replace one with a new LED model (because they draw soooo much less electricity).
  
 Schiit rates the Vali's tube life at 10k to 20k hours. I'd bet that is a conservative estimate. They probably last longer than that, but obviously they haven't had the ability to test that (unless they've been secretly life-testing a Vali for the last 2 or 3 years and running it 24/7). Remember, 50 year old tubes on eBay still work lol. As another data point, the tube devices that go into commercial communications satellites are rated for 15 _years _(thats over 130,000 hours). They also run very cool, and are insanely efficient (which helps extend their life). Yeah, they are different kinds of tubes, but they're still tubes. Heat is the enemy. A tube that by design runs cool, is a tube that will last a long time (all other factors being equal).


----------



## TooPoor

I have been trying to follow this thread from the beginning... and I've done quite well up until now. That being said, anyone have experience with the Vali and the Fidelio X1's? These headphones don't seem to need much in the way of amplification, but I'm looking for something to replace my E09k...


----------



## Katun

Err, nevermind.


----------



## tomb

ryant said:


> In regards to the ringing. If I use my sennheiser hd439's I hear constant ringing. It's low but there. With my fisted t50rp and he-300 cans, there is nothing even if I two the case, etc. It could be your cans and not the amp (unless they are cans that others have used without issue)


 

 I think we know what you really meant, but perhaps the wording would've been clearer if it had been more precise.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Whether or not "It could be your cans ...", one must recognize that the HD439's are not going to create a sound if it doesn't exist.  The situation is similar to many tube amps and even solid state amps: hum and hiss may be present, but perhaps it is minimal enough that only a few headphone combinations will pick it up.  Regardless, _it's still there_.
  
 That doesn't mean it's not enjoyable with many other headphone combinations, however.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi,
  
 I've only had the Vali for a couple of days, so I'll defer making comments about its sound quality until later, but the microphonics sure are annoying.  
  
 My tubes were stuck down to their pads when I opened the case to have a look, but they ring badly whenever I turn the amp on, touch the volume control, plug in a headphone, etc.  
  
 None of this is news to readers of this thread, but I found a way to make the ringing settle down much faster than it was settling previously:
  

  
 These* Blu-Tack* blankets are attached to the glass - not touching anything else - and not touching the leads.
  
 This has done a lot to dampen the microphonics, but it's not a complete cure - it only makes the ringing come to a stop more quickly.
  
http://www.amazon.com/Blu-Tack-Reusable-Adhesive/dp/B001FGLX72
  
 Mike
  
*UPDATE:*
  
 Quoting this article:


> *The material [Blu-Tack] will burn under extreme heat, with a flash point of 93° C / 200° F, at which point it will release quantities of carbon dioxide and monoxide, water vapour, oxides of nitrogen and toxic fumes.*


----------



## jaywillin

zilch0md said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've only had the Vali for a couple of days, so I'll defer making comments about its sound quality until later, but the microphonics sure are annoying.
> 
> ...


 

 could this fix possibly cause any heating issues with the tubes ??


----------



## zilch0md

Yes, that's surely possible, especially given how warm the Vali runs when the case is closed.  
  
 I'm running mine with the lid off, at the moment, but intend to close it up.
  
 I'll report back if something melts and turns into a big sticky mess.


----------



## jaywillin

the ringing doesn't really bother me too much, its more of a problem with my rs1i, than my lcd2, i just use a light hand , and try to adjust the volume too much


----------



## zilch0md

OK, Blu-Tack is apparently not a good idea for hot electronic gear...
  
 Quote:


jaywillin said:


> could this fix possibly cause any heating issues with the tubes ??


 
  


zilch0md said:


> Yes, that's surely possible, especially given how warm the Vali runs when the case is closed.
> 
> I'm running mine with the lid off, at the moment, but intend to close it up.
> 
> I'll report back if something melts and turns into a big sticky mess.


 
  
 Quoting this article: 





> *The material [Blu-Tack] will burn under extreme heat, with a flash point of 93° C / 200° F, at which point it will release quantities of carbon dioxide and monoxide, water vapour, oxides of nitrogen and toxic fumes.*


 
  
 Thanks for inciting me to do some research!  
  
 I've updated the original post, above.
  
 Mike


----------



## jaywillin

flashpoint, noxious fumes, small price to pay for the advancement of audio


----------



## thegunner100

zilch0md said:


> Thanks for inciting me to do some research!
> 
> I've updated the original post, above.
> 
> Mike


 

 More importantly... How does it sound with the hd800 and concero? I know that you don't have anax 2.0 on yours... but still relevant. My emotiva stealth dc-1 delivery date got pushed back to Friday from Thursday, QQ.


----------



## zilch0md

WAV > Foobar 2000 w/WASAPI event > Concero > Vali > HD800  
  
 OK, this is premature, as the Vali only has about 25 hours on it, but I've never heard an amp change so dramatically with break-in - and I mean for the better.  
  
 At first, it sounded like vocals were coming through cupped hands, but this has rapidly fallen away to a truly remarkable sound.
  
 The Vali isn't as resolving as my TBI Millenia MG3, but it's sweeter, more organic, more tube-like (not surprisingly.) 
  
 Again, it's a little early to be reaching conclusions, but I think the Vali > HD800 pairing will be more accommodating of less than perfectly recorded music than is the MG3 > HD800, while bringing a lot of desireable traits to the table.  Conversely, when playing stuff that's really clean - like anything by Allison Kraus, for example, I think I prefer the MG3 over the Vali.
  
 For the record, the Concero does a much better job with the HD800 (with any amp) than the DAC section of my CEntrance DACmini CX (which has a slight etch in the treble that works well with the LCD-2's shelved highs and less than stellar resolution.)
  
 There's absolutely no contest in terms of bang-for-the-buck.  Everyone should buy a Vali - it's too affordable to pass up!
  
 I'm so impressed with the Vali > HD800, I've not even tried it yet with my other headphones (LCD-2, HD600, Amperior, DT1350, and some lesser cans).
  
 More later!
  
 Mike


----------



## jaywillin

the vali pairs very well with the lcd2 also


----------



## MattTCG

jaywillin said:


> the vali pairs very well with the lcd2 also


 
 +1 and with the MD, AD and HFM hp's.


----------



## doublea71

purrin said:


> There were a lot of "inside" jokes (and some that I probably don't even get) on that one. Not going to elaborate.


 
 I'm pretty sure it was a parody of a John Darko review....


----------



## bearFNF

jason stoddard said:


> Regarding the tube foam--actually, heat won't hurt it--it's rated to 65 degrees C continuous.
> 
> I suspect what's happening with the loose tubes is cold weather. During shipping, if it gets cold, the adhesive gets less effective, and might come unstuck. I've talked to the board house already and all production is now shipped with bent, strain-relieved tube leads to help eliminate the problem.
> 
> And--if you choose to re-stick them, don't worry about touching the tubes. *They run at room temperature*. The only parts that get hot are the large transistors for the Class AB output stage. We push the tubes down, hard, by hand, during production.


 
 Remember this is what Jason said about the tubes...


----------



## zilch0md

bearfnf said:


> Remember this is what Jason said about the tubes...


 
  
 Oh good!  The Blu-Tack won't burn until 96 degrees C, so I'll leave it where it is for now. 
  
 Since my last post, I've measured the top surface of the Blu-Tack strips with my laser thermometer, having left the lid off the case but with the amp having run for several hours... and I'm measuring a temperature much higher than "room temperature":   
  
 The top surface of the Blu-Tack measures 54 C (129 F) when the room temperature is 21 C (70 F).   Again, that's with the lid off the case.
  
 Jason says the foam pads are rated to 65 C (149 F), so the 54 C I'm measuring is OK for the pads.
  
 And the Blu-Tack won't burn until it hits 96 C, so I'm safe, at least with the lid off.  
  
 Here's the thermometer I'm using:
  

  
  
 I'll put the lid on the case for about thirty minutes, then snatch it off and take measurements again.  That should be interesting.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Meanwhile, I better get suited up...
  




  
 Mike


----------



## phillyd

Any word on the coloring on this amp? Schiit products tend to be bright, but tube amps tend to be warmer.

I would like to do a Vali/Modi combo with my DT770 Pro 80 ohms (leatherette cups, blu tack insulation) and use the DAC for my Audioengine A5+ w/Klipsch KW100 sub. Any thoughts?


----------



## zilch0md

zilch0md said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OK, after thirty minutes in a room that measures 21 C (70 F), I removed the lid and measured the Blu-Tack at 69 C (156 F), with the foam under the tubes measuring right at 64 C (147 F).
  
 So... it's not room temperature inside the Vali, but it's still well under the 96 C (200 F) flash point where the Blu-Tack would start to burn.  For the record, it feels warm and it's pretty soft to the touch.  It will probably dry out eventually, so I'll have to keep an eye on it.
  
 But it's still doing a great job of silencing the microphonics - the ringing doesn't last nearly as long as without the Blu-Tack.
  
*Proceed at your own risk.*
  
 Mike


----------



## Katun

Not sure why the ringing is such a big deal.


----------



## deltasun

katun said:


> Not sure why the ringing is such a big deal.




Just better without it or less of it.


----------



## zilch0md

katun said:


> Not sure why the ringing is such a big deal.


 
  
 I can't even adjust the volume without taking off my headphones first to avoid the squealing in my ears.  It's much worse when plugging in the headphones. Turning off the amp first doesn't help, because throwing the toggle switch to turn the amp on sends it squealing just as loudly as inserting the plug into the jack.
  
 At least with the Blu-Tack, the ringing only lasts about 15 to 20 seconds, instead of a minute or more.
  
 Mike


----------



## ssrock64

katun said:


> Not sure why the ringing is such a big deal.


 

 It's worse for some than it is for others. Most don't have issues and only get minor ringing, but some of the units have more extreme effects.


----------



## zilch0md

I can live with it, as is, but it's annoying to know that somehow, others aren't suffering this problem.


----------



## deltasun

zilch0md said:


> I can live with it, as is, but it's annoying to know that somehow, others aren't suffering this problem.




Yeah, that's more annoying than the ringing itself.


----------



## zilch0md

Good one!  I feel much better now!  Thank you!


----------



## Katun

Hmm, alright. I must have gotten a pretty good one then. 
  
 At first, I didn't hear anything. I tapped on the unit, twisted the volume knob... nothing. Only when I unplug and plug the headphone (swapping headphones for comparisons) do I hear a faint ringing that will fade after around 15-20 seconds. As of now, my biggest problem is the noise floor which is extremely audible. Then again, I'm running off the outputs of my CD player's DAC (until my Modi arrives for my PC). I'm guessing The noise floor won't be a problem once I can control the volume on the PC.
  
 Guess my #911 is lucky. I wonder who got the 666?


----------



## eccom

The noise floor is the same regardless of volume on my unit. Using a dac w/ volume control won't really help with that issue.

I use the volume control one computer to avoid touching it and triggering the microphonics.


----------



## darinf

ssrock64 said:


> It's worse for some than it is for others. Most don't have issues and only get minor ringing, but some of the units have more extreme effects.


 
 Yes. Mine rings a LOT. When I plug in my HD800's, I can hear the ringing LOUD when the headphones are just sitting on a stand and not on my head. It takes about 60 seconds or longer until the ringing subsides if I have the headphones on.
  
 Then, if I just barely touch the volume knob and don't even turn it, I will get ringing again for another 30 seconds.
  
 I did have to push down the tubes to the sticky pads, but that may have helped a little. The ringing I am describing is after I pushed the tubes down.
  
 The noise floor for sensitive cans is the same regardless of the input level or the volume knob. I have had good luck using an Etymotic ER4P to ER4S 75 ohm adapter for my IEM's and CIEM's. The adapter reduces the noise floor. I can't hear any noise with the adapter using sensitive IEM's (30 ohm).


----------



## Katun

eccom said:


> The noise floor is the same regardless of volume on my unit. Using a dac w/ volume control won't really help with that issue.
> 
> I use the volume control one computer to avoid touching it and triggering the microphonics.


 
  
 Wouldn't it be less if I cranked the volume up on the Vali, but kept the volume low in foobar? If the noise floor always remained the same, how on earth does everyone stand it? Mine is loud enough that I can hear a constant fuzz on nearly every part of the song unless I crank up the volume to levels I don't usually listen to. It makes listening to quiet parts/songs extremely distracting.


----------



## eccom

katun said:


> Wouldn't it be less if I cranked the volume up on the Vali, but kept the volume low in foobar? If the noise floor always remained the same, how on earth does everyone stand it? Mine is loud enough that I can hear a constant fuzz on nearly every part of the song unless I crank up the volume to levels I don't usually listen to. It makes listening to quiet parts/songs extremely distracting.




It's fine for me as my hd650 is insensitive enough to make the noise go below my hearing threshold. Using any other of my headphones the noise is making the amp unusable. 

Cranking the amp high won't help in any way with to your issue. Which headphones are you using?


----------



## Katun

I've got then HD600 and HD650 enroute. I was debating picking up the Q701 too, but I'm worried about this issue.
  
 My HD700 and PX100-II are basically not usable. I've got the Magni on the way as well, in case all else fails.


----------



## Rem0o

katun said:


> I've got then HD600 and HD650 enroute. I was debating picking up the Q701 too, but I'm worried about this issue.
> 
> My HD700 and PX100-II are basically not usable. I've got the Magni on the way as well, in case all else fails.


 
 If your source ain't plugged into the amp while it's on, do you still hear noise?


----------



## Katun

Yup, just went and tested that out. It's a white fuzz noise.


----------



## Rem0o

katun said:


> Yup, just went and tested that out. It's a white fuzz noise.


 
 Plug it into a different wall plug in a different room (different circuit) and see if it's still there.


----------



## eccom

The hd700 is significantly more sensitive than the hd600/650. The px100 is a portable and that was doomed from the start.


----------



## Katun

rem0o said:


> Plug it into a different wall plug in a different room (different circuit) and see if it's still there.


 
  
 Tried a couple, still there.
  
 Quote:


eccom said:


> The hd700 is significantly more sensitive than the hd600/650. The px100 is a portable and that was doomed from the start.


 
  
 I'm going to have to hope it's this. But that's all I have to try at the moment.


----------



## deltasun

It will always be there; it's even mentioned in the manual and as a pseudo-warning prior to purchasing.


----------



## FeelThaBeat

I've read a lot of this thread (and man head is starting to hurt) but I haven't seen any in depth review of the Vali with the HE-400. I have an HE-400 and HD600 as my 2 main HP's with the HE-500 coming within the next month or 2. I've seen some HD600 comments but not many HE-400 or HE-500 so anyone that has those combo's if you could give me a short review of how they sound together would be a big help.


----------



## elwappo99

feelthabeat said:


> I've read a lot of this thread (and man head is starting to hurt) but I haven't seen any in depth review of the Vali with the HE-400. I have an HE-400 and HD600 as my 2 main HP's with the HE-500 coming within the next month or 2. I've seen some HD600 comments but not many HE-400 or HE-500 so anyone that has those combo's if you could give me a short review of how they sound together would be a big help.


 
  
 I believe Purrin had mentioned a bit with the HE-500, but I haven't said much on this thread as I find many of my findings are similar to his. The HE-500 create a very smooth and natural sound with the Vali. It's really a great combination. It is a little slow, and I don't think the Vali really swings enough power to show off the full potential of the planar drivers for the HE-500, but there is a synergy with the two. The emotiva A-100 definitely provides a contrast, where it really pushes the driver to be a faster and more detailed sound, but not quite the same smoothness. I hope this kind of makes sense. Don't have time right now to do a proper side by side, but if you'd like I can.


----------



## K.T.

Regarding the HE-400 or 500 and the Vali, I recommend just getting the Vali and trying it out.

To me, the HE-400 sounded underpowered on the Vali. Breathless and lacking in impact. Yet many others are very satisfied with what they're hearing from the pairing.

To my mind, the Vali is worth having even if you don't fancy the HE-400 or 500 with it. If the pairing works for you, fantastic. But if not you'll still have a fantastic amp that works well with any number of other phones. You can't lose either way.


----------



## nicdub

feelthabeat said:


> I've read a lot of this thread (and man head is starting to hurt) but I haven't seen any in depth review of the Vali with the HE-400. I have an HE-400 and HD600 as my 2 main HP's with the HE-500 coming within the next month or 2. I've seen some HD600 comments but not many HE-400 or HE-500 so anyone that has those combo's if you could give me a short review of how they sound together would be a big help.




I liked the 400 a lot better than the 500 with the Vali. Though it was a really good pairing. Smoothed out the highs on the 400. Sounded alright with the 500, just lacked a little oomph. Same with the LCD-2, for me at least.


----------



## jrzamora6

nicdub said:


> I liked the 400 a lot better than the 500 with the Vali. Though it was a really good pairing. Smoothed out the highs on the 400. Sounded alright with the 500, just lacked a little oomph. Same with the LCD-2, for me at least.


 
 I got my dad a modi+vali and a pair of HE-400s for christmas. He loves it, but I feel the vali doesn't have enough power fully drive the HE-400s. Even at the highest volume the sound doesn't get loud enough in my opinion.


----------



## deltasun

jrzamora6 said:


> I got my dad a modi+vali and a pair of HE-400s for christmas. He loves it, but I feel the vali doesn't have enough power fully drive the HE-400s. Even at the highest volume the sound doesn't get loud enough in my opinion.




I wanted to get the modi w/ my vali, but (correct me if I'm wrong) they don't play 192/24, correct?


----------



## Halonoonan

If you didn't care for the vali and he-400 pairing what amp do you recommend for the he-400?


----------



## BenEnglish

Microphonics have been mentioned here.  I decided to put a stopwatch to my Vali and figure out just how long it rings, depending on what sets it off.  With the volume knob at about 11 o'clock and using HE-300 headphones, I got the following
  
 Switch the warmed-up amp off then back on - 57 seconds audible ringing
 Plug in the headphones - 1 minute, 16 seconds
 Tap the case firmly with a fingernail - 1 minute, 14 seconds
 Tap the case lightly with the tip of a screwdriver - 1 minute, 7 seconds
 Rub the headphone cable against itself - 21 seconds
 Lean back in my chair so that the headphone cable drags across a metal box on the floor - 22 seconds
  
 Nearly all ringing is confined to the right channel. 
  
 Are these results similar to what other people get?


----------



## nabwong

jrzamora6 said:


> I got my dad a modi+vali and a pair of HE-400s for christmas. He loves it, but I feel the vali doesn't have enough power fully drive the HE-400s. Even at the highest volume the sound doesn't get loud enough in my opinion.




You can crank the volume all the way? I can only turn it to 10 o'clock max before it gets unbearably loud. Using he400. 

I know what you mean by the slam/punch. I wish there was about 10-20% more power but it's pretty good for $120.


----------



## Transformatron

benenglish said:


> Microphonics have been mentioned here.  I decided to put a stopwatch to my Vali and figure out just how long it rings, depending on what sets it off.  With the volume knob at about 11 o'clock and using HE-300 headphones, I got the following
> 
> Switch the warmed-up amp off then back on - 57 seconds audible ringing
> Plug in the headphones - 1 minute, 16 seconds
> ...




Nope.
I timed mine with the HE-300s:
Amp power toggle - 38 seconds
Tap finger on chassis - 14 seconds
Tap fingernail on volume - 22 seconds
Drag cable - 21 seconds

Yours seems very high, have you pushed the tubes down?


----------



## zilch0md

benenglish said:


> Microphonics have been mentioned here.  I decided to put a stopwatch to my Vali and figure out just how long it rings, depending on what sets it off.  With the volume knob at about 11 o'clock and using HE-300 headphones, I got the following
> 
> Switch the warmed-up amp off then back on - 57 seconds audible ringing
> Plug in the headphones - 1 minute, 16 seconds
> ...




Yes!


----------



## thegunner100

benenglish said:


> Microphonics have been mentioned here.  I decided to put a stopwatch to my Vali and figure out just how long it rings, depending on what sets it off.  With the volume knob at about 11 o'clock and using HE-300 headphones, I got the following
> 
> Switch the warmed-up amp off then back on - 57 seconds audible ringing
> Plug in the headphones - 1 minute, 16 seconds
> ...


 

 Yikes... sounds like you should probably send your unit back to schiit.


----------



## GBechz

Question for Vali owners about low quality/low bit rate recordings. From Steve Guttenberg's Schiit Valhalla review:

"The Valhalla's sound may be somewhat less clear than the solid-state Asgard's, but the tubes' sweetening effect makes for a more enjoyable experience with less-than-stellar-sounding recordings, like Arcade Fire's compressed-to-the-point-it-hurts "The Suburbs" CD. The music still doesn't sound great, but the Valhalla made it less grating. The Valhalla made every CD sound a little sweeter and more beautiful than it really is."

And from his Magni/Modi review:

"The Modi is sweet and mellow and very tolerant of cruddy-sounding low bit-rate files and streaming audio sources."

Note: Above, Steve is comparing to the original Asgard and Bifrost USB, respectively.

How are people finding Vali to be with non-lossless audio? Everything I listen to is either 256kbps or lossless.


----------



## K.T.

I think the tubes are very sensitive and can respond unpredictably to even slight changes in the way they are held down or damped.
  
 For example, my Vali arrived with a moderately loud ring that came primarily from the left channel. This ringing would dissipate after about 20 seconds or so.
  
 After talk of detached adhesive pads and tubes hanging above the board, I checked mine and one tube was, indeed, hanging above the board (with the pad attached to it). I pressed it back down.
  
 An interesting thing happened after I did that. The volume, or loudness, of the ringing went down quite a bit, but now the amp was a lot more sensitive.
  
 After pressing it down, just about anything sets off the ringing now. I didn't have much of a ringing issue from touching the volume control before, but now even brushing or putting a finger on the knob would trigger the ringing (not even turning the knob). Even the movement of the headphone cord across the table would set if off. So lower ringing volume, but now much more sensitive.
  
 In Jason's reply, he mentioned that the tubes were pressed down onto the pads during construction. I'm assuming they soldered in the tubes with straight leads. The residual spring tension from the bending, and the cold weather, is probably what cause the adhesive to detach and the tubes to hang in the air. Jason said they were now pre-bending the leads to take the tension off.
  
 Taking a cue from this, I opened up my Vali and carefully pulled the tubes off of the adhesive pads (do at your own risk. At room temps, the pads are very soft and sticky, and there's a good chance you'll rip one). I put a gentle bend into the leads of the tubes to eliminate the tension (so now they don't spring back up even without adhesive). Then I pressed them to the adhesive pads.
  
 Well, joy! I couldn't believe it. I was actually shocked. The ringing had subsided so much, I could barely hear it in the background. And I really had to rap the the top of the case to get it to start.
  
 I had read those reports from owners who could barely hear ringing or get their amps to ring, and now here it was right here. The amp actually sounded more "together" for lack of a better word. I was very, very happy... for a few minutes.
  
 After reveling in the improvement and listening to several upbeat songs, I swapped albums. Uh Oh.....
  
 Now I could hear a persistent ringing that would not stop. Damn. The improvement was undeniable and huge, but I had set up a situation where the now low level ringing just would not stop. It was unlistenable with the constant whine in the backgroud.
  
 I gave up at that point and plugged in my Magni to listen for the evening.
  
 So, yeah, these tube are very sensitive and give vastly different results regarding ringing. But it's very touch and go and unpredictable what will happen.
  
 More tweaking to do....


----------



## thegunner100

gbechz said:


> Question for Vali owners about low quality/low bit rate recordings. From Steve Guttenberg's Schiit Valhalla review:
> 
> "The Valhalla's sound may be somewhat less clear than the solid-state Asgard's, but the tubes' sweetening effect makes for a more enjoyable experience with less-than-stellar-sounding recordings, like Arcade Fire's compressed-to-the-point-it-hurts "The Suburbs" CD. The music still doesn't sound great, but the Valhalla made it less grating. The Valhalla made every CD sound a little sweeter and more beautiful than it really is."
> 
> ...


 

 Honestly it really isn't about v0/320 vs flac when it comes to dacs. You generally have control over if your files are mp3 or flac, but you don't have control over how your music was recorded.
  
 A lot of the music that I listen to with the gungnir, vali, and hd800 aren't the best recordings, but I still enjoy listening to them. Of course your headphones will determine how "forgiving" it will be of lower quality recordings the most.


----------



## zilch0md

thegunner100 said:


> Yikes... sounds like you should probably send your unit back to schiit.


 
  
 Reading Jude's comments about the Vali at this page, I would say the Vali is working as designed. My Vali's tubes ring badly, but I don't see it as being defective, in light of Jude's assessment:
  
 Quoting Jude: 





> The tubes are microphonic, too. Plug your headphones in, and_riiiiiinnnnnnnngggggggggg_. Tap on the chassis (even lightly), and _riiiiiinnggggg_. Thankfully, the ringing subsides after a minute or two, and is a small price to pay for the tube sound you get with the Vali.


 
  
 Mike


----------



## thegunner100

zilch0md said:


> Reading Jude's comments about the Vali at this page, I would say the Vali is working as designed. My Vali's tubes ring badly, but I don't see it as being defective, in light of Jude's assessment:
> 
> 
> Mike


 

 It's just that a minute or two is a lot... compared to 20-30 seconds =/. Ultimately it's up to the buyer whether or not he wants to return the unit for another.


----------



## jaywillin

k.t. said:


> I think the tubes are very sensitive and can respond unpredictably to even slight changes in the way they are held down or damped.
> 
> For example, my Vali arrived with a moderately loud ring that came primarily from the left channel. This ringing would dissipate after about 20 seconds or so.
> 
> ...


 
 i too had previously pressed my tubes back down on the pads, after reading this, i inspected the tubes again, and they were indeed pulling back up
 so just did the same "fix" and my results are the same, much less sensitive , and when it rings, stops much sooner !!
 K.T. is correct, care should be taken, the pads can tear easily, and care should be taken when bending the wires as well !


----------



## BenEnglish

transformatron said:


> ... have you pushed the tubes down?


 
 No.
  
 I made the attempt but one of the four screws holding down the top plate was well and truly stripped by the factory when they assembled my unit.  Since (judging from the other screws) the screw is excessively long for this application, that means that the stripped portion is between the head of the screw and some intact threads inside the chassis.  IOW, it's acting like a rivet.  I tried several methods to create enough upward force on the top plate to get the lower portion of the screw to engage but failed.  Short of finding my jeweler's saw and cutting the screw off, I can't get inside without seriously damaging the case.
  
 I've screwed it back together.  The LED is now pushed inside the case and the top of the case has a few scratch marks around one screw.  I think I've done enough damage.  I'm just going to live with it.  This thing was so super-low-buck that if it aggravates me too much, I won't feel bad about just tossing it out and trying something else.


----------



## AladdinSane

The first screw I tried was stripped as well so I just left well enough alone. Mine rings for < 30 secs so not quite the PITA others are getting. Great little amp though.


----------



## Halonoonan

I'm looking at getting a Vali for my HE-400 but all this talk of ringing, noise and tubes coming off has me a little worried. If I'm going to be using this as transportable amp do you think I will have a lot of problems with the tubes staying in place. I'll be bringing it back and forth from hove and work a couple of times a week. 
Maybe I should just get the magni, O2 or Fiio E12.


----------



## gideon228

benenglish said:


> No.
> 
> I made the attempt but one of the four screws holding down the top plate was well and truly stripped by the factory when they assembled my unit.  Since (judging from the other screws) the screw is excessively long for this application, that means that the stripped portion is between the head of the screw and some intact threads inside the chassis.  IOW, it's acting like a rivet.  I tried several methods to create enough upward force on the top plate to get the lower portion of the screw to engage but failed.  Short of finding my jeweler's saw and cutting the screw off, I can't get inside without seriously damaging the case.
> 
> I've screwed it back together.  The LED is now pushed inside the case and the top of the case has a few scratch marks around one screw.  I think I've done enough damage.  I'm just going to live with it.  This thing was so super-low-buck that if it aggravates me too much, I won't feel bad about just tossing it out and trying something else.


 

 I had the same issue. My offending stripped screw managed to engage when I gently levered the top plate *up* with a small flathead screwdriver, whilst being careful to not push the screw *down* as I turned it


----------



## BlainD

I hate to keep posting but I wanted to get on here and give a GIANT thumbs up to schiit for their Awesome Customer Service. I'll spare the details but WOW! neatest ever!


----------



## rwitt

blaind said:


> I hate to keep posting but I wanted to get on here and give a GIANT thumbs up to schiit for their Awesome Customer Service. I'll spare the details but WOW! neatest ever!




How so??


----------



## BlainD

rwitt said:


> How so??




Don't want to say so people won't get mad if they don't get the same later.


----------



## TheDuke990

halonoonan said:


> I'm looking at getting a Vali for my HE-400 but all this talk of ringing, noise and tubes coming off has me a little worried. If I'm going to be using this as transportable amp do you think I will have a lot of problems with the tubes staying in place. I'll be bringing it back and forth from hove and work a couple of times a week.
> Maybe I should just get the magni, O2 or Fiio E12.


 
  
 Using a tube amp as a transportable amp ? Bad idea ! A solid state amp is much better for that.
  
  
 Do you get this "ringing" by increasing or decreasing the volume as well ?


----------



## zilch0md

blaind said:


> Don't want to say so people won't get mad if they don't get the same later.




Well done, sir!


----------



## KimChee

I got my Vali today and am pretty happy with it so far.  It even plays nice with the TF10 and JH16 surprisingly.  I think it sounds better than my old Matrix M Stage and Little Dot II and III.  I think I'll get a Modi and call it a day...oh and get a good set of full size headphones while Im at it.


----------



## kcdecker

Vali + Q701 really is as good as people have bragged.  I'm a new fan of this Schiit.


----------



## BleaK

Vali is some serious business with HD800 plugged in. I can't believe something so cheap can sound so good. Crazy synergy with the HD800.


----------



## mikemercer

bleak said:


> Vali is some serious business with HD800 plugged in. I can't believe something so cheap can sound so good. Crazy synergy with the HD800.


 
 I forgot to ask this before - and as previously posted - I wholeheartedly agree the Vali is some serious bizness!
  
 But considering the ringing - due to the tube itself - now that I know that (and my ringing fades away pretty fast)
 is Schiit sending along anything in the lit about it @Jason Stoddard??
  
 Might be a good thing to do in the meantime.
  
 Listening to the Vali w/ my new Sennheiser Momentum on-ears (reviewing them)
 and so far this amp has breathed more magic into these cans that ANY other I've paired em with!!
  
 F YEAH


----------



## BenEnglish

mikemercer said:


> But considering the ringing ... is Schiit sending along anything in the lit about it...?...


 
  
 I think they're being straightforward about it.  From their web page on the Vali:
  


> *On Tubes*
> Just getting into tubes? Be aware of microphonics. Many small tubes, including the ones in Vali, are microphonic. When you plug in headphones, you'll hear a little "tiiinnnnggg...." noise that takes quite a while to go away. If you rap the chassis, it will do the same thing.


 
  
 That strikes me as enough fair warning.  For example, I find the amount of ringing my unit does to be more than I expected and bordering on unacceptable but I haven't complained or sent the unit back.  I feel like they gave me enough warning and that the product provides enough value that I'm happy with the purchase.
  
 YMMV, of course.
  
 ETA - From my now-broader experience, though, I will say I would have paid double or more for the same lovely performance sans the ringing.  It seems to irritate me more and more with the passage of time.


----------



## nabwong

Loving my vali with the he400. But I'm realizing that the vali can't drive half my collection. Too much noise and muddy with my grados. What other amps do you guys use?


----------



## blasjw

blaind said:


> I hate to keep posting but I wanted to get on here and give a GIANT thumbs up to schiit for their Awesome Customer Service. I'll spare the details but WOW! neatest ever!


 
 Yep, it's official.  Their customer service is indeed AWESOME!


----------



## Makiah S

blasjw said:


> Yep, it's official.  Their customer service is indeed AWESOME!


 
  
  


benenglish said:


> I think they're being straightforward about it.  From their web page on the Vali:
> 
> 
> That strikes me as enough fair warning.  For example, I find the amount of ringing my unit does to be more than I expected and bordering on unacceptable but I haven't complained or sent the unit back.  I feel like they gave me enough warning and that the product provides enough value that I'm happy with the purchase.
> ...


 
 Yup
  
 also starting my Review of the Vali now. Will post it here first, I've spent enough time with it! Chances are I'm up to 50 hours or more by now  
  
 But yea, Schiit gives fair warning, I've owned 3 hybrid tubes now and the Vali while... it's the most extreme. meaning during music it's quieter than what I had in the past, and when rapped or bumped it's the loudest... my point... the noise is moot imo. All hybrid tubes or full OTL tubes for that matter, are noisy in this price range. The Vali is no different... it is how ever the... nicest! If you treat it right and mount it, it's fine... how ever if you abuse it, bump it and rap it often it will punish you! 
  
 Still it's a tube, the noise if part of the SOUL


----------



## leesure

nabwong said:


> Loving my vali with the he400. But I'm realizing that the vali can't drive half my collection. Too much noise and muddy with my grados. What other amps do you guys use?




I will sometimes use my Magni with the Grados, but most often it's the portable rig from iBasso.


----------



## nabwong

leesure said:


> I will sometimes use my Magni with the Grados, but most often it's the portable rig from iBasso.




Do you find the magni's gain is too high or ok?


----------



## TheDuke990

> Do you get this "ringing" by increasing or decreasing the volume as well ?




Ask again 
Thanks

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9505 mit Tapatalk


----------



## darinf

theduke990 said:


> Using a tube amp as a transportable amp ? Bad idea ! A solid state amp is much better for that.
> 
> 
> Do you get this "ringing" by increasing or decreasing the volume as well ?


 
 The ringing and the noise floor is independent of the volume setting. It is just as loud if you have the volume knob turned all the way down.


----------



## UmustBKidn

benenglish said:


> I think they're being straightforward about it.  From their web page on the Vali:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well yes, but I would not go so far as to say that all tube amps are prone to microphonics. It's the tube (not the amp), specifically, the mechanical pieces inside the tube.
  
 From what I have read in the last year or so, it seems like the sub-miniature tube package design seems to be more prone than larger tubes. But I've seen nothing that conclusively states this to always be the case. In my rather limited experience with my other hybrid amps, some tubes are microphonic and some are not (I'm speaking of the 12AU7 size package). A few of the 3-dozen odd vintage tubes I've purchased have been microphonic, but most are not. For the most part, I can run my hybrid amps and there is no ringing - even if I tap directly on the tube while listening. The only other design I've personally read about (on some DIY site) that uses these small tubes also exhibited microphonics. Even so, I would not personally expect every tube amp to have this issue. So far it seems pretty random.


----------



## elwappo99

kcdecker said:


> Vali + Q701 really is as good as people have bragged.  I'm a new fan of this Schiit.


 
  
 Glad you're digging that combo


----------



## TheDuke990

darinf said:


> theduke990 said:
> 
> 
> > Using a tube amp as a transportable amp ? Bad idea ! A solid state amp is much better for that.
> ...




Thanks.
Maybe my question was not good. 
You will get the ringing when you rap the case or hit it. Okay but do get it during changing the volume level as well because of touching the Vali.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9505 mit Tapatalk


----------



## bearFNF

theduke990 said:


> Thanks.
> Maybe my question was not good.
> You will get the ringing when you rap the case or hit it. Okay but do get it during changing the volume level as well because of touching the Vali.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem GT-I9505 mit Tapatalk


 

 Yes, the ringing can happen anytime you touch the Vali (change volume, plug in headphones, etc), IME.


----------



## Skooks

Let me say to begin with... I don't have a Vali... yet. But I will soon. I have owned a lot of Schiit before and enjoyed each and everyone. Right now I am enjoying playing my HE-500's straight out of my Oppo 105. Or, playing CD's with the Oppo and going digitally into my Peachtree Audio Decco 65. Let me just say, as this is not the post to be talking about other products than the Vali, if you don't have an Oppo 105 for any number of reasons, you should consider this awesome machine on your next shopping spree. It is the most versatile single audio, and of course video, device on the planet. 
  
 Now, back to the Vali, which as I said, I will buy soon just to see what all the fuss is about... both pros and cons. But, in the meantime, let me offer you Schiit Vali owners a tip that I learned before most of you were born. Go to your local gun and ammo dealer and buy a bag of lead shot. Lay that bag right on top of the Vali. It will dampen out all, or most all, cabinet induced ringing. I've used bags of lead shot on almost everything... even on top of speakers. And, if the esthetics bother you, just wrap the lead shot bags with the material of your choice... or your wife's choice. Then listen to the difference.
  
 That's my shot of the day...


----------



## zilch0md

I get it, but overheating could be a problem...


----------



## Nic Rhodes

cabinet induced ringing isn't the issue though, it is the internals of the tube and there is little that can be done that hasn't been done by Schiit already. It is the nature of these tubes, very different from octals and 7 / 9 pins.


----------



## Skooks

Negative on a heating problem... the lead shot actually dissipates the heat... like a sponge soaking up water, the lead shot absorbs heat and vibration.


----------



## Skooks

If cabinet issues are not part of the problem, then why do many manufactures of audio amps, DACs and etc put dampening material on the inside of the top of the cabinet? But, all you have to do is tap around on the cabinet and hear the response of the tubes. Dampening out the cabinet will eliminate most of the vibrations from reaching the tubes. 
  
 Now, if you have not tried it, then don't say it won't help. It is induced vibrations that cause the tubes to ring.
  
 You can also put some heavy brass weights that can be purchased from most hifi dealers to dampen the cabinet. But, lead shot works better... I know, I've got both. Also, those brass dampeners cost a whole lot more than a bag of lead shot.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have had both heavy metal dampening (sold for loudspeaker stand dampening) and sorbothane on the Vali which is why i said I think Schiit have done pretty much all they can. I have also experimented with valve dampening. It is what it is. Some of the other sub minatures like 6111 can be damped by a gromit.


----------



## leesure

nabwong said:


> Do you find the magni's gain is too high or ok?




I find it is fine. No noise, nice synergy.


----------



## leesure

skooks said:


> If cabinet issues are not part of the problem, then why do many manufactures of audio amps, DACs and etc put dampening material on the inside of the top of the cabinet? But, all you have to do is tap around on the cabinet and hear the response of the tubes. Dampening out the cabinet will eliminate most of the vibrations from reaching the tubes.
> 
> Now, if you have not tried it, then don't say it won't help. It is induced vibrations that cause the tubes to ring.
> 
> You can also put some heavy brass weights that can be purchased from most hifi dealers to dampen the cabinet. But, lead shot works better... I know, I've got both. Also, those brass dampeners cost a whole lot more than a bag of lead shot.




Sorbathane might help a small amount by reducing transmission of small vibrations to the tubes, but the issue is not cabinet based. It is the internal mechanics of the tube that are ringing. If any vibration is transferred to the tubes, they will ring regardless of the dampening...internal or external.


----------



## leesure

Got my production Vali today. I had a prototype for my meet in October and enjoyed it thoroughly.

The current one does seem to ring a bit more on turn on and headphone insertion, but it dies of in 30-40 secs. 

I have it connected to my turntable and it's the bees knees! The ever-so-slightly warm signature is a great match for the bright Ortofon OM5e cartridge. I'm loving the setup through my LCD-X's.


----------



## roflaly

Hey guys, sorry if this was asked earlier in the thread but would you recommend this amp or the Magni with a HiFi Sabre DAC and a 598?


----------



## Skooks

leesure said:


> Sorbathane might help a small amount by reducing transmission of small vibrations to the tubes, but the issue is not cabinet based. It is the internal mechanics of the tube that are ringing. If any vibration is transferred to the tubes, they will ring regardless of the dampening...internal or external.


 
 You say it is "the internal mechanics of the tube that are ringing."
  
 And then in your next statement you say "if any vibration is transferred to the tubes, they will ring..."
  
 So, my question is... where does that "any vibration" come from? It has to come from somewhere. Does it come when it is sitting perfectly still on a solid surface with nothing going on... just the amp on and tube glowing? Certainly not! Something has to make the vibration. What makes it? Either loud external music or noise or shock that vibrates the cabinet... that's where the vibration comes from... the cabinet. That's true whether it's the speaker cabinet or equipment cabinet. You must dampen out all vibration or it will go thru out the unit and to the tube. That makes the tube ring.
  
 Why is the tube in the Vali damped or stuck down with whatever... to help keep vibrations from ringing the tubes... external vibrations from the cabinet. So, if you put a heavy bag of lead shot... the weight plus the properties of the lead shot dampen out all or nearly all vibrations. With no vibrations... no tube ringing. That should be pretty simple.
  
 Boy, now I'm shot! I'll go listen to some good music with no ringing.


----------



## Xyzygy

skooks said:


> Now, if you have not tried it, then don't say it won't help. It is induced vibrations that cause the tubes to ring.


 
  
 Now, if you have not tried it with the Vali, don't say it will help


----------



## thievesarmy

FWIW, I got my Vali last week - my first tube amp and it was, as they say, an experience. I'm new to hi fi / audiophile gear but this was the first time that I really said to myself "wow, that sounds incredible". I should also mention that I was pairing it with a Dragonfly, but still - the Vali is a killer amp and I absolutely love the sound coming out of it. 
  
 Also since the ringing issue seems to be getting a lot of discussion, I wanted to say mine does not seem to have this issue at all, but it was a well documented thing that the Schiit boys were completely up front about, so everyone should be aware of it. I was prepared to experience it but didn't think it would be a real issue - but thankfully I have been fortunate that I am not experiencing it at all.


----------



## CJs06

thievesarmy said:


> Also since the ringing issue seems to be getting a lot of discussion, I wanted to say mine does not seem to have this issue at all, but it was a well documented thing that the Schiit boys were completely up front about, so everyone should be aware of it. I was prepared to experience it but didn't think it would be a real issue - but thankfully I have been fortunate that I am not experiencing it at all.


 
 Nice, I'm glad to hear someone isn't experiencing "the micro-phonic ring of death!" LOL. 
  
 Joking aside, I realize the ringing is not that big of a deal and I'm sure the majority of everyone else does too even though the subject has received ALOT of attention. My guess is because micro-phonics is a relatively rare phenomenon for amplifiers? I don't know too much about tubes and amplifiers as I'm just starting my foray into this realm of headphone HI-FI.
  
 I will say I can't wait to try the Vali + Modi when they arrive next week!


----------



## leesure

skooks said:


> You say it is "the internal mechanics of the tube that are ringing."
> 
> And then in your next statement you say "if any vibration is transferred to the tubes, they will ring..."
> 
> ...




That's fine, except that you can't eliminate all that vibration. As I said, Sorbathane under the amp might do something to absorb minor vibrations coming from the surface, but clamping it, weighing it down or putting something inside the cabinet is not going to do anything more than what's been done by Schiit. Even if you weigh it down with cryogenic, gold plated, voodoo blessed Bubinga discs, when you tap the surface of the table or chassis or plug in pair of phones, the vibrations will be transferred to the tubes and they will ring. If the vibration gets to the cabinet, it will get to the tubes. Thus, if you accept the fact that the circuit board must be attached to the chassis, it's not the relationship between the cabinet and the tubes that is at issue. You could fill the entire remaining interior of the chassis with dampening foam and it wouldn't change a thing as the vibration from the external source would still make the internal mechanism of the tube shake and, therefore, ring. 

If it were an interaction between the glass and the chassis or if the glass itself were ringing, you'd have a point, but it's not. 

But hey, give Jason a call. Maybe you really are smarter than they are.


----------



## K.T.

roflaly said:


> Hey guys, sorry if this was asked earlier in the thread but would you recommend this amp or the Magni with a HiFi Sabre DAC and a 598?




To my ears, the Vali by far. There is no comparison, IMO. The. Magni and 598 are decent, but once you've hooked up the Vali, you might never reach for the Magni again with these phones.

Incidentally, I just received my second Vali. Interesting thing about the ringing.

Either I was really lucky with this one, or the pre-bending of the leads and whatever else Schiit is doing really works to tame the ringing.

This second amp is REALLY insensitive to ringing. It's another instance where you have to rap on the case to get it going. Plus the volume of the ringing, when you do get it to ring, is extremely low. BRAVO!

If you read my posts in the past, my first Vali was one of the earlier amps. Had issues with ringing and hyper sensitivity.

I ended up bending/de-tensioning the leads myself (the lead on the earlier amps were not de-tensioned, with the tubes soldered with straight leads and then pushed over onto the adhesive pads). 

This pre-bending yielded fantastic results, with both the volume of the ringing and the sensitivity drastically reduced. So much so that listening to the amp became an entirely different experience. No more worries.

Now, my tweaked amp did develop a persistent low-level ringing on that first day, but whatever the cause seems to have vanished. Continued good results with very low volume ringing when there is any, and the amp is extremely insensitive now. Very happy! Fantastic sound an no more walking on eggshells regarding the ringing.

So to those who have too loud ringing or an amp hypersensitive to ringing, you may want to experiment with de-tensioning the leads by gently removing them from the adhesive pads and bending a gentle curve into the wires.

I would think this would only apply to the earlier amps, as Jason indicated the are pre-bending the leads on all the Valis now.


----------



## zilch0md

Skooks,
  
 Quote:


skooks said:


> Spoiler: Unappreciated wisdom
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I completely see the logic of this, Skooks.  It's a good idea - and I hadn't considered that a bag of lead shot can absorb a lot of heat, but I wouldn't want the amp to run 24/7, as the lead shot would eventually reach temperatures too high to provide any cooling ballast.  Now, where do I find a bag of lead shot?  
  
 Oh, at Amazon, of course:  http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Pearls-Lead-Weights-2Pounds/dp/B0034ZECX4  
  
 What size would you recommend?
  
 And what do you think of using one of these, instead:  http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Pearls-Vinyl-Coated-Weights/dp/B00355CPZ0
  
 Note:  My Vali is sitting on a table that's so solid, I hear no microphonics resulting from forces applied to the table.  I have to touch the Vali itself to "excite" the ringing sound.
  
 Thanks!
  
  
 Mike


----------



## Solarium

I have to say after listening to the Vali for so long with my HD650, and going back to Magni, I really appreciate the brighter and quicker sound. It's almost a veil has been lifted and I was awakened, feeling less sleepy. I'm not sure why but I think the soundstage is also larger as well, treble sounds better, bass is still tight but the emphasis shifted from the low end toward the mids. The HD650 definitely sounds more neutral now, and I can also use my IEM's with the Magni as well. Maybe tube sounds just isn't for me, and I was also sick of having to tip-toe not to touch the Vali too hard to induce the ringing.


----------



## akong

How does the Vali's purported warm tube sound pair with the already warm, dark HE-400s?


----------



## Skooks

zilch0md said:


> I completely see the logic of this, Skooks.  It's a good idea - and I hadn't considered that a bag of lead shot can absorb a lot of heat, but I wouldn't want the amp to run 24/7, as the lead shot would eventually reach temperatures too high to provide any cooling ballast.  Now, where do I find a bag of lead shot?
> 
> Oh, at Amazon, of course:  http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Pearls-Lead-Weights-2Pounds/dp/B0034ZECX4
> 
> ...


 
 I’ve always used a 25# bag of lead shot which you can get at any gun store that sells re-loading stuff. And it doesn’t much matter what size shot. 
  
 I don’t think the “seashell lead shot” is heavy enough… it looks like the heaviest they have is 8#. But, it is in nice wrapping/sack. But, as I said earlier, you can wrap whatever cloth around it for esthetic appeal.
  
 Lead is the most “dead” of all the metals I know about. It absorbs sound and dissipates it.
  
 In equipment cabinets or speaker stands, filling the posts with lead shot or a mixture of half lead and half kiln dried sand, which you can buy in bags at any building supply, like Home Depot, really does wonders with the music. It’s a combination of a very inert material and mass loading. You can use all sand, but it doesn’t have the mass weight that lead has. Sand alone is better than nothing, but not near as good as at least a mixture of half lead.
  
 If you purchase a rack or stand from Sound Anchors... very heavy and well built... they use hollow steel posts but fill them with some inert material of their own. You don't have to tinker with their stands so much, but it might help to still put a bag of lead shot on top of the speaker itself. 
  
 What happens in a speaker when there is no filler and bracing inside the cabinet? The cabinet vibrates/resonnates the sound back to the drivers and distortion is induced. So, the manufacturers of speakers go to great lengths to dampen the cabinet vibrations so the sound will be cleaner. But, they are not gonna ruin the esthetics of the cabinet with mass loading on the outside... but, you can and the soundstage becomes even better.
  
 You know, years ago, there were all kinds of rumblings made when a speaker designer/manufacturer by the name of Bob Fulton came out with huge 2 gauge speaker cables that looked like big welding cables. It took special solderers to even solder the speaker lugs on those beasts. And everybody started poking fun and saying that their 12 gauge zip cord that they bought at a hardware store was all they needed. Then some audio crazy engineers started running sine waves thru Fulton's cable and the zip cord. The difference on a scope was revealing... the zip cord had all kinds of spikes throughout the frequency range... while Fulton's cables were very clean. Then others took off with the idea and many cable companies have sprung up even with power cables. And every cable has its own flavor. 
  
 So, you doubters... go ahead and do as you please. Don't listen to a guy who has literally spent hundreds of thousands on audio in his lifetime and has tried every tweak to make it even better. My wife says i'm obsessed. That's actually what real audiophiles are... possessed... always wanting to make it a little better. If that wasn't true... then why read these forums and why buy something different? Or try something different?
  
 I'm gonna buy some more shot tomorrow.


----------



## TheDuke990

solarium said:


> I have to say after listening to the Vali for so long with my HD650, and going back to Magni, I really appreciate the brighter and quicker sound. It's almost a veil has been lifted and I was awakened, feeling less sleepy. I'm not sure why but I think the soundstage is also larger as well, treble sounds better, bass is still tight but the emphasis shifted from the low end toward the mids. The HD650 definitely sounds more neutral now, and I can also use my IEM's with the Magni as well. Maybe tube sounds just isn't for me, and I was also sick of having to tip-toe not to touch the Vali too hard to induce the ringing.


 
  
 You are right by going with the Magni because a dark sounded headphone like HD650 and a tube amp with warm sounding as well makes no sense.


----------



## BournePerfect

I don't find the Vali warm at all. I think the great impact and full mids might give that perception to some-but otoh it doesn't do anything to calm the HD800s bright nature. I would consider the stock m-Stage warm though, if that helps.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Trogdor

Btw, whoever said the JH16 and Vali are a good match...uhhh...the noise floor is insanely loud....

This isn't a knock on the Vali's at all since they weren't designed for that, but still, this doesn't make an exactly great pair.


----------



## nabwong

akong said:


> How does the Vali's purported warm tube sound pair with the already warm, dark HE-400s?




The vali is not warm. It's full. Tames the highs of the he400. Good match.


----------



## BenEnglish

Quote:


skooks said:


> ... let me offer you Schiit Vali owners a tip that I learned before most of you were born. Go to your local gun and ammo dealer and buy a bag of lead shot. Lay that bag right on top of the Vali. It will dampen out all, or most all, cabinet induced ringing.


 
  
 Oddly enough, I have a bag of #12 shot in the house.  I put it on top of the Vali and repeated a couple of my earlier tests.
  
 Without the shot, tapping on the case with a screwdriver resulting in ringing lasting 1 minute, 7 seconds.
  
 With the shot, the ringing went on for 31 seconds.
  
 Without the shot, plugging in the headphones resulted in ringing that lasted 1 minute, 16 seconds.
  
 With the shot, the ringing went on for 2 minutes, 49 seconds.
  
 The following is my theory about what's happening:  You're right that the weight on the case helps dampen _*cabinet induced*_ ringing.  However, if you get past the cabinet and vibrate the board directly (in this case by plugging in the heaphones) then the cabinet damping actually makes the problem worse.  The cabinet can't absorb any of the vibration that was fed into the board, leaving the board (and, by extension, the tube internals) to vibrate by itself until it settles down.
  
 If I were to have my amp set up so that it never needed to be touched, I think the bag-of-lead-shot-on-top trick would be very useful.  But since I need to touch it occasionally to adjust volume or plug in headphones, I think I'll skip the lead shot.
  
 Fascinating little experiment, though.  Thanks for the tip.  It might come in handy for me some day.


----------



## leesure

Skooks, feel few to keep trying your tweaks. Did you spend thousands on a Tice clock too? 

Do you own a Vali? I do. I have tried a VPI brick on it to no avail. I have read what the engineers at Schiit have written in explanation of the microphonics.

But go crazy. Buy your lead shot. Spend a thousand on a granite stand for a $119 amp. The economy loves you.


----------



## zilch0md

Cruel.


----------



## NinjaHamster

skooks said:


> So, my question is... where does that "any vibration" come from? It has to come from somewhere. Does it come when it is sitting perfectly still on a solid surface with nothing going on... just the amp on and tube glowing? Certainly not!


 
  
 Why not ?


----------



## ssrock64

leesure said:


> Skooks, feel few to keep trying your tweaks. Did you spend thousands on a Tice clock too?
> 
> Do you own a Vali? I do. I have tried a VPI brick on it to no avail. I have read what the engineers at Schiit have written in explanation of the microphonics.
> 
> But go crazy. Buy your lead shot. Spend a thousand on a granite stand for a $119 amp. The economy loves you.


 
 That's a bit over-harsh, don't you think? He was just voicing his opinion, and you could've expressed your criticism in a less antagonistic fashion.


----------



## leesure

ssrock64 said:


> That's a bit over-harsh, don't you think? He was just voicing his opinion, and you could've expressed your criticism in a less antagonistic fashion.




But his dismissal of my comments because of his assumption that I had less experience on HiFi than him was ok? I expressed my opinion is a respectful manner and had it intimated that I didn't have any idea what I was talking about. I have been tied to the HiFi industry in one way or another since 1990. I'm no newbie without a clue. 

But it's Ok. Feel free to defend the guy who is making assumptions and gripe at the guys who actually have the device in question. That's your right. 

I'm going to go back to enjoying done music through my Vali.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

benenglish said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Without the shot, plugging in the headphones resulted in ringing that lasted 1 minute, 16 seconds.
> ...


 
  
 I had a similar negative result, microphonics for me are about when I use the volume and when I channge headphones. I don't normally tap my case with a screwdriver as part of my listening!. Luckily my microphonics aren't too bad. Mass loding certainly has an effect though not always positive, I have many devices nowdays that are supported by light material (eg Torlyte) and even foam. The latter a tip I picked up from pro audio guys.


----------



## Makiah S

skooks said:


> Let me say to begin with... I don't have a Vali... yet. But I will soon. I have owned a lot of Schiit before and enjoyed each and everyone. Right now I am enjoying playing my HE-500's straight out of my Oppo 105. Or, playing CD's with the Oppo and going digitally into my Peachtree Audio Decco 65. Let me just say, as this is not the post to be talking about other products than the Vali, if you don't have an Oppo 105 for any number of reasons, you should consider this awesome machine on your next shopping spree. It is the most versatile single audio, and of course video, device on the planet.
> 
> Now, back to the Vali, which as I said, I will buy soon just to see what all the fuss is about... both pros and cons. But, in the meantime, let me offer you Schiit Vali owners a tip that I learned before most of you were born. Go to your local gun and ammo dealer and buy a bag of lead shot. Lay that bag right on top of the Vali. It will dampen out all, or most all, cabinet induced ringing. I've used bags of lead shot on almost everything... even on top of speakers. And, if the esthetics bother you, just wrap the lead shot bags with the material of your choice... or your wife's choice. Then listen to the difference.
> 
> That's my shot of the day...


 
  
  


skooks said:


> I’ve always used a 25# bag of lead shot which you can get at any gun store that sells re-loading stuff. And it doesn’t much matter what size shot.
> 
> I don’t think the “seashell lead shot” is heavy enough… it looks like the heaviest they have is 8#. But, it is in nice wrapping/sack. But, as I said earlier, you can wrap whatever cloth around it for esthetic appeal.
> 
> ...


 
 There's nothing wrong with being obbessed, but don't be offended when some one brushes you off. I'm sure you've heard, it's not what but how you say it... and your a little brash... not brash so much as almost a little "holier than thou" however, I feel on the obession and squeezing every LITTLE bit of extra out of your headphones or speakers! 
  
 And I've got a Furman Power Conditioner in my set up and I found it to improve the clarity of my rig overall. As far as cables though, I think they come in at the bottom of many people's list of gear to get. I still run MonoPrice cables my self and will be for a good bit of time! 
  
 Point being, appreciate that there are different levels of obession. Don't go around throwing the term "real audiophiles" around so lightly. Passion has a variety of ways of manifesting it self. As you know, some of us do not have thousands of dollars to experiment with cables. 
  
 That said, to you who's whinning about the mircophonics... it's a $119 Sub miniture Tube Amp, they aren't marketing it to what you consider to be "real audiophiles" how ever many "real audiophiles" are enjoying it. For the price, it's a heck of an amp and you really should give it a try!


----------



## jaywillin

mshenay said:


> There's nothing wrong with being obbessed, but don't be offended when some one brushes you off. I'm sure you've heard, it's not what but how you say it... and your a little brash... not brash so much as almost a little "holier than thou" however, I feel on the obession and squeezing every LITTLE bit of extra out of your headphones or speakers!
> 
> And I've got a Furman Power Conditioner in my set up and I found it to improve the clarity of my rig overall. As far as cables though, I think they come in at the bottom of many people's list of gear to get. I still run MonoPrice cables my self and will be for a good bit of time!
> 
> ...


 
  
 i've been that "obsessive audiophile" listening to music stopped being just that, i wasn't listening to music, i was listening to equipment,
 not the same for me
 i'm here to have fun, listening to music !


----------



## Makiah S

jaywillin said:


> i've been that "obsessive audiophile" listening to music stopped being just that, i wasn't listening to music, i was listening to equipment,
> not the same for me
> i'm here to have fun, listening to music !


 
 Yea, I can do and enjoy both. I thankfully have a nice crappy Car Stero I use to the full :3, keeps me grounded and makes me home gear sound epic always.
  
 But I can dig both ideals... heck I'm going through the trouble of balancing ALL of my headphones atm, and I plan on getting a nice $600 dollar RSA portable q.q, that would be the obbessive side of me... then there's me listening and LOVING my little Vali <3, I have a 4pin to SE adapter that I may keep around just for my lil Vali ^^


----------



## jaywillin

mshenay said:


> Yea, I can do and enjoy both. I thankfully have a nice crappy Car Stero I use to the full :3, keeps me grounded and makes me home gear sound epic always.
> 
> But I can dig both ideals... heck I'm going through the trouble of balancing ALL of my headphones atm, and I plan on getting a nice $600 dollar RSA portable q.q, that would be the obbessive side of me... then there's me listening and LOVING my little Vali <3, I have a 4pin to SE adapter that I may keep around just for my lil Vali ^^


 

 oh i still love getting the most sound out of $$$ for sure, you know what i started with, and now i have the LCD2.2,  hifiman HE-5LE(on loan) my rs1i(out on loan) and a gs1000i
 a vali, a lyr, and mjolnir , and the wadia 121, from here, i may make some sideways moves, doubtful i'll go much further "upstream"


----------



## x838nwy

@Skooks

Okay here's the thing about the bags of lead pellets. You'd be effectively adding mass to the case. Now this will reduce the natural frequency and the amplitude of the response of the case to an input (vibration). However, it does nothing to change the natural frequency of the parts in tubes themselves. If you plug in your headphones, tap the volume knob, or rub your headphone cable, that energy goes pretty much straight to your pcb and on to all the components thereon. Some of this goes to the case (and thus the bags of shot also) but all the shots are going to do is make sure the case vibrates less. As the case vibrates less, it absorbs less energy from the pcb. As a result the ringing will go on for longer. How much longer depends on a lot of things though.

For the sake of simplification, we've all had that something in the interior of our car that rattles, right? Putting bags of lead shot on the vali is like putting sacks of potatoes on the roof of your car and hoping the rattle inside the car goes away. (If you think of putting dynamats in your car, you put it where it resonates, right?)

So no, we're not doubters or worried about how our amps look. The method of just plonking bags of lead on the box does not work. Sorry. You add as much lead as you like to this problem and it won't do a thing.

With speaker cabinets, the purpose to do kill the resonance of (1) the cabinet itself (its panels and baffles within) and (2) control the resonance of the air mass within the enclosure itself. (1) really should be nonexistent as it will add peak and troughs to the fr. Adding mass to the cabinet helps (1) in a general sort of way. Again, this is to do with the exterior of the cabinet/case. If they want to kill a resonance at some panel inside the cabinet, they'll need to damp that panel itself, not just putting weight on top of the thing.

With most audio gear (amps, etc.), mass loading things work in general as it stops gear and stands from vibrating from air-borne and ground-borne vibrations. This is different. This is plugging in stuff to the board and turning the volume knob which is unusually close to the tubes plus tubes with what I suspect to be more resonant than your typical audio tubes. Quite a different situation.

My guess as to how to improve this would be to decouple the headphone jack from the board. Basically connect them together with flexible wires. And also to perhaps use a rubber or some other coupling between the volume knob and shaft. Finally, try to decouple the board from the chassis. Probably with a sheet of neoprene where the two are screwed together. This will stop energy getting to the board. It will also prevent it getting out which is a bit bad. So it's just trial and error mainly... if you're bothered by the microphonics it'sbest just not to use them tubes to start with, I'm afraid.


----------



## zilch0md

Having considered everyone's input regarding the use of lead shot, I've settled on BenEnglish's post as being the most sensible.  The bag of lead is likely to be effective at suppressing ringing caused by any stimulus against the case, but ineffective against a stimulus that acts against the PCB directly.
  


Spoiler: Ben's open-minded analysis



Quote:


benenglish said:


> Quote:
> 
> Oddly enough, I have a bag of #12 shot in the house.  I put it on top of the Vali and repeated a couple of my earlier tests.
> 
> ...


 
  





>


 
  
 Mike


----------



## jaywillin

and here's my feeling on "tweaks" perception is 99.999999% reality, if we think it works, then it works
 so much of this hobby, is subjective, what works or i perceive as working, for me, you may not hear


----------



## x838nwy

zilch0md said:


> Mike




Yup. I agree.


----------



## x838nwy

jaywillin said:


> and here's my feeling on "tweaks" perception is 99.999999% reality, if we think it works, then it works
> so much of this hobby, is subjective, what works or i perceive as working, for me, you may not hear




This very much depends on whether it's a "tweak" which i'd say is an effort to improve what you hear or a "fix". The Vali's ring I'd call a fix. And you either fix something by reducing it or you just don't. There's no perception involved other than whether or not the degree to which it is reduced is acceptable.


----------



## UmustBKidn

(an attempt at lightening things up...)
  
 How's this sound on that Vali?


----------



## x838nwy

Guys,

May I ask which of the two tubes is for which channel? I'd assume the one closer to the pot and headphone jack will ring a lot more than the other. Are my assumptions correct?

Thanks

C


----------



## jaywillin

x838nwy said:


> This very much depends on whether it's a "tweak" which i'd say is an effort to improve what you hear or a "fix". The Vali's ring I'd call a fix. And you either fix something by reducing it or you just don't. There's no perception involved other than whether or not the degree to which it is reduced is acceptable.


 

 good point, and with this particular problem, well, i wouldn't really say its a problem , for me anyway, its just an issue i deal with, i've bent the leads, re-attatched the tubes to the pads, very little ringing here
 i keep my touch light, and don't mess with the volume very much,


----------



## Makiah S

umustbkidn said:


> (an attempt at lightening things up...)
> 
> How's this sound on that Vali?




 wonderful thank you :3
  
 seriously, guys new topic please or make a thread for trouble shooting the noise.


----------



## ssrock64

leesure said:


> But his dismissal of my comments because of his assumption that I had less experience on HiFi than him was ok? I expressed my opinion is a respectful manner and had it intimated that I didn't have any idea what I was talking about. I have been tied to the HiFi industry in one way or another since 1990. I'm no newbie without a clue.
> 
> But it's Ok. Feel free to defend the guy who is making assumptions and gripe at the guys who actually have the device in question. That's your right.
> 
> I'm going to go back to enjoying done music through my Vali.


 
 I didn't really read back into that context much; I had skipped over a couple pages leading up to this. I apologize if I missed his own rudeness.


----------



## jaywillin

ssrock64 said:


> I didn't really read back into that context much; I had skipped over a couple pages leading up to this. I apologize if I missed his own rudeness.



I'm not sure it was rude, the comments, were more condescending, "audiophile" Attitude kind if thing, 
Now getting back to the vali, it is sound killer with the gs1000i, the lcd2, and even the hifiman he-5le , which needs a good bit of power


----------



## ssrock64

jaywillin said:


> I'm not sure it was rude, the comments, were more condescending, "audiophile" Attitude kind if thing,
> Now getting back to the vali, it is sound killer with the gs1000i, the lcd2, and even the hifiman he-5le , which needs a good bit of power


 
 I wasn't aware you had a GS1000i. There's not very many of those out there. I've always preferred the PS1000, but what about the combo with the GS1000i makes you like them?


----------



## jaywillin

ssrock64 said:


> I wasn't aware you had a GS1000i. There's not very many of those out there. I've always preferred the PS1000, but what about the combo with the GS1000i makes you like them?


 

 yeah, they were delivered friday, got them from another head-fi'er
 i had just been hearing how you didn't hear much about them , compared to the rest of the grado family
 i started researching them, reading what i could find, so i was curious, and focker said he was going to get rid of
 his, so i took them of his hands.
 the soundstage is bigger than the other grado's i've heard, the bass has more presence , without being overbearing
 it reminds me of the ps500, but maybe more balanced, and more revealing of details, i haven't spent a whole lot of time with them yet, so still
 getting a handle on them.


----------



## Fearless1

jaywillin said:


> yeah, they were delivered friday, got them from another head-fi'er
> i had just been hearing how you didn't hear much about them , compared to the rest of the grado family
> i started researching them, reading what i could find, so i was curious, and focker said he was going to get rid of
> his, so i took them of his hands.
> ...


 

 I love them and hate them at the same time. I think they are too revealing (if possible), even more so to my ears then the HD800.  I am surprised how much I also enjoy them with a tube amp, other Grados I have owned/tried I like SS with them.
  
 So you say the Vali has good synergy with them?


----------



## jaywillin

fearless1 said:


> I love them and hate them at the same time. I think they are too revealing (if possible), even more so to my ears then the HD800.  I am surprised how much I also enjoy them with a tube amp, other Grados I have owned/tried I like SS with them.
> 
> So you say the Vali has good synergy with them?


 

 other than them being ,other than them picking up more of the tubes microphonics, the gs1000i sounds great with the vali


----------



## Makiah S

jaywillin said:


> other than them being ,other than them picking up more of the tubes microphonics, the gs1000i sounds great with the vali


 
 yea, my w1000x is kinda sensitive, the more I listen the more I start to hear the slight bit of tube noise [hum] and ofc the mircophonics but again nothing I consider a deal breaker


----------



## Makiah S

My review or rather comparison of the Schiit Vali and my Audio GD NFB10ES2 [SE Out] is up!
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/audio-gd-nfb-10es2-balanced-desktop-amp-dac/reviews/10257
  
 Check it out


----------



## 1llest

Is there a newer version that doesnt have the ringing? I would like to try this amp but that ringing sound might annoy me! I change the volume pretty often.


----------



## Makiah S

1llest said:


> Is there a newer version that doesnt have the ringing? I would like to try this amp but that ringing sound might annoy me! I change the volume pretty often.


 
 It's not as annoying and finnicky as ppl say it is, I've got an w1000x that is very sensitive and I don't get rining unless I'm pluggin my headphones into the amp


----------



## AladdinSane

Yes. Chances you'll get an annoying ringing unit are pretty slim in the latest production unit. Schiit is pre-bending tube wires now which seems to have minimized the real serious ringers. 30 day return so have at it!


----------



## 1llest

mshenay said:


> It's not as annoying and finnicky as ppl say it is, I've got an w1000x that is very sensitive and I don't get rining unless I'm pluggin my headphones into the amp







aladdinsane said:


> Yes. Chances you'll get an annoying ringing unit are pretty slim in the latest production unit. Schiit is pre-bending tube wires now which seems to have minimized the real serious ringers. 30 day return so have at it!




Thanks for the info. Now to do more research how well it pairs with the Fidelio X1 before I pull the trigger.


----------



## zilch0md

1llest said:


> Is there a newer version that doesnt have the ringing? I would like to try this amp but that ringing sound might annoy me! I change the volume pretty often.


 
  
 If you gently grasp the volume control, turn it, then let go of it gently, you'll only hear a very brief ringing, if any.
  
 It's not so bad. 
  
 I'm finding that my Vali is sounding better and better as it burns in.  I want to avoid getting an amp that allows tube rolling, so I'd been thinking about getting a Violectric V800, as they are said to be a good match with the HD800, but I'm enjoying the Vali so much, I might just deprive myself of spending money on a "better" amp.  
  
 The Vali is amazing with the HD800 - nothing else solid state in my modest inventory tames the HD800's harsh treble so well, while elevating the bass a tad - all with just a wee bit of detail smoothing - a good thing with the HD800.  
  
 Mike
  
 (WAV from SD cards > Foobar 2000 with WASAPI event > Windows 7 > Moon-Audio Blue Dragon USB cable > Resonessence Concero > AntiCables Level 1 RCA interconnects > Schiit Vali > Sennheiser HD800)


----------



## jmttdr

My Vali is arriving on Wednesday. Im rather excited. 
  
 Will be running:
  
 (mac) Itunes>>Audioengine D1>>Vali>> Senn HD 650.
  
 I will most probably sell my D1 as it is relatively new (under two months) and go for a dedicated amp. Currently I could go for a Cambridge Audio DacMAgic 100...
  
 Anyone have any experience/thoughts on the set up? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## painted klown

Is the general consensus that the Vali will not work well with low impedance/easy to drive 'phones?
  
 I currently have Senn HD-598, Grado Sr80i, and Skullcandy Aviators. My next planned HP purchase is the Senn HD-650. I do not plan to buy much/any other cans beyond that.
  
 Would the Vali be a wise purchase for me, or should I look elsewhere?
  
 BTW, whatever I get will be paired with an Emotiva DC-1 DAC.


----------



## jaywillin

painted klown said:


> Is the general consensus that the Vali will not work well with low impedance/easy to drive 'phones?
> 
> I currently have Senn HD-598, Grado Sr80i, and Skullcandy Aviators. My next planned HP purchase is the Senn HD-650. I do not plan to buy much/any other cans beyond that.
> 
> ...


 

 the grado's sound really good with the vali, is just it picks up the ringing a little longer than audeze or hifiman headphones i have


----------



## purrin

painted klown said:


> Is the general consensus that the Vali will not work well with low impedance/easy to drive 'phones?
> 
> I currently have Senn HD-598, Grado Sr80i, and Skullcandy Aviators. My next planned HP purchase is the Senn HD-650. I do not plan to buy much/any other cans beyond that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 HD598 and HD650 - should be no issues.
 SR80 - possible low level hiss.
 Skullcandy - I don't know.


----------



## Eee Pee

purrin said:


> SR80 - possible low level hiss.


 
  
 None heard with RS2 or Bushmills Grados.  I didn't crank it with nothing playing though...


----------



## K.T.

In case you all missed the other positive comments about this, the Vali pairs wonderfully with the AKG Q701.
  
 It also sounded great with my old AKG K401's as well.
  
 I think the Q701's have a more balanced and modern sound. K401 sound really good, too, but somewhat weaker in the bass and slightly drier. Boy, the sense of space on the K401 is breathtaking, though.


----------



## olor1n

Apparently the tubes ring. Can we talk about that more?


----------



## cakebreaker

olor1n said:


> Apparently the tubes ring. Can we talk about that more?


 

 "*On Tubes*
  Just getting into tubes? Be aware of microphonics. Many small tubes, including the ones in Vali, are microphonic. When you plug in headphones, you'll hear a little "tiiinnnnggg...." noise that takes quite a while to go away. If you rap the chassis, it will do the same thing."
  
 http://schiit.com/products/vali


----------



## kcdecker

I had no problem using the Vali with the HD555 and Alessandro MS-1, both quite easy to drive 'phones.  There was indeed some low-level hiss but not as bad as I expected, and very tolerable.  I had first listened to the Q701s on the Vali, and it was a few days before I plugged in the MS-1s.  At first I hated the MS-1s on the Vali.  I tried again the next day and then A/B tested it against my original setup of the MS-1 and Fiio E10, and realized I wasn't losing anything through the Vali as opposed to the Fiio, at least in regards to the MS-1s.


----------



## jaywillin

and i had no problem with any hiss, i just noticed the ringing just lasted a little longer, but it still went away fairly quickly


----------



## jimmers

olor1n said:


> Apparently the tubes ring. Can we talk about that more?


 
 Yeah, only 229 posts so far.


----------



## Misterrogers

Wait.... the tubes ring???


----------



## tomb

misterrogers said:


> Wait.... the tubes ring???


 

 Yeah, someone said something about that once or twice, I think.


----------



## CJs06

olor1n said:


> Apparently the tubes ring. Can we talk about that more?


 

 You sir, are trolling. So I give you your face lol


----------



## BenEnglish

olor1n said:


> Apparently the tubes ring. Can we talk about that more?


 

 I think the problem is that there's both too little and too much to talk about. 
  
 The basics are easy to cover.
   -  It rings, a little or a lot, depending on your particular sample, your particular equipment, and your particular perceptions.
   -  It sounds great in lots of systems.  Others, not so much.
   -  It costs pocket change.
   -  It seems well-built.
   -  The company is cool, for an annoying large number of definitions of "cool".
  
 The particulars could keep this topic going for a few million more posts.
   -  What headphones work?  Why?
   -  What headphones don't?  Why?
   -  Describe your system and how it sounds/works with the Vali.
  
 Since the combinations of system configs and individual perceptions are effectively infinite, that last bullet could inspire a few million new posts with people describing exactly how it sounds in their system to their ears. 
  
 Mixed in with all that, I reckon a few people are going to occasionally pop up who mention that it rings.  Even the manufacturer does. 
  
 Personally, I consider this thing to be a high water mark of value for money, fully as satisfying to my sense of "I love it when I do something smart" as the NAD 3120 I bought about 3 decades ago.
  
 As for me, if someone comes up with a tweak, I'm liable to test it and report results.  Beyond that, well, I don't have much.


----------



## leesure

benenglish said:


> -  Describe your system and how it sounds/works with the Vali.




Pro-Ject Debut III turntable with OM5e cartridge > Hafler IRIS preamp acting as phono stage > Vali > LCD-X. 

Sounds fantastic!


----------



## Fearless1

leesure said:


> Pro-Ject Debut III turntable with OM5e cartridge > Hafler IRIS preamp acting as phono stage > Vali > LCD-X.
> 
> Sounds fantastic!


 

 I love Halfer gear!  I bet that combo is fantastic.


----------



## CJs06

benenglish said:


> The particulars could keep this topic going for a few million more posts.
> -  What headphones work?  Why?
> -  What headphones don't?  Why?
> -  Describe your system and how it sounds/works with



^This


----------



## x838nwy

olor1n said:


> Apparently the tubes ring. Can we talk about that more?


 
  
 I strapped mine to the back of a ferret and tapped it constantly with a screwdriver. It rings a bit, yeah. Sitting on the amp and the ferret helped. But then I couldn't tap it with a screwdriver. And I kindda got a ferret up my butt. Which is probably not very good for my butt. The ferret didn't seem to have had a very good time either - although he didn't seem to mind before to whole sitting episode. Did wonders for sq though. I think it's best to leave out the whole strapping it to ferrets altogether. May be the tapping too.


----------



## Makiah S

zilch0md said:


> If you gently grasp the volume control, turn it, then let go of it gently, you'll only hear a very brief ringing, if any.
> 
> It's not so bad.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeap, I do like the Vali with my W1000x, which benifits from the same smoothness and bass boosting :3 I'm uber excited to hear a Beyer T90 with the Vali


----------



## benjaminhuypham

Has anyone ever tried Dt880 600ohms with Vali? I'm probably buying vali for dt880 600, but I have no idea how they sound like. Don't guess if you have not heard a combo .


----------



## thegunner100

benjaminhuypham said:


> Has anyone ever tried Dt880 600ohms with Vali? I'm probably buying vali for dt880 600, but I have no idea how they sound like. Don't guess if you have not heard a combo .


 

 Mshenay has. Do a search for his posts in the thread.


----------



## leesure

benjaminhuypham said:


> Has anyone ever tried Dt880 600ohms with Vali? I'm probably buying vali for dt880 600, but I have no idea how they sound like. Don't guess if you have not heard a combo .




Search is your friend

http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?advanced=1&byuser=&containingthread%5B0%5D=685162&newer=1&output=posts&resultSortingPreference=relevance&sdate=0&search=Beyer+880+600ohm&type=all


----------



## Makiah S

benjaminhuypham said:


> Has anyone ever tried Dt880 600ohms with Vali? I'm probably buying vali for dt880 600, but I have no idea how they sound like. Don't guess if you have not heard a combo .


 
 Can I chime in and say the combo sounds super duper awesome sauce!


----------



## CJs06

Just got my Vali+Modi... wow, just wow. This is my first experience with any Hi-Fi amplifier + DAC, let alone it being a tube amplifier and I am well pleased. I immediately recognized the creamy, rich tube sound and love it. The bass, dear Lord the bass was like, "Oh hey, I know we've just met but we're gonna have a really, really good time." It also introduced me to its friend named staging; layers of instrument separation. Fantastic at presenting me with the subtle nuances in my music.

 I paired it with a Philips Fidelio X1 and SOL Republic Master Tracks. I listen to all kinds of EDM from progressive house, club house, drum/bass and dubstep. I will say its never sounded this good before and the Analog Synths and Bass sound great. Rich and dynamic is the words. I do however prefer the Philips Fidelio X1 over the Master Tracks. Gonna get back to listening 
  
 Oh, and I'm not going to say a **** word about the microphonics


----------



## 00Dan

Got my Vali and Modi yesterday, and just got notification my DT880 600 ohm is out for delivery. The waiting and anticipation to try this combo is killing me!


----------



## thegunner100

cjs06 said:


> Just got my Vali+Modi... wow, just wow. This is my first experience with any Hi-Fi amplifier + DAC, let alone it being a tube amplifier and I am well pleased. I immediately recognized the creamy, rich tube sound and love it. The bass, dear Lord the bass was like, "Oh hey, I know we've just met but we're gonna have a really, really good time." It also introduced me to its friend named staging; layers of instrument separation. Fantastic at presenting me with the subtle nuances in my music.
> 
> I paired it with a Philips Fidelio X1 and SOL Republic Master Tracks. I listen to all kinds of EDM from progressive house, club house, drum/bass and dubstep. I will say its never sounded this good before and the Analog Synths and Bass sound great. Rich and dynamic is the words. I do however prefer the Philips Fidelio X1 over the Master Tracks. Gonna get back to listening
> 
> Oh, and I'm not going to say a **** word about the microphonics


 

 But... everyone talks about the microphonics! How dare you!


----------



## painted klown

purrin said:


> HD598 and HD650 - should be no issues.
> SR80 - possible low level hiss.
> Skullcandy - I don't know.



 




jaywillin said:


> the grado's sound really good with the vali, is just it picks up the ringing a little longer than audeze or hifiman headphones i have



 


Awesome! That's good news to hear. Thanks for the input guys.


----------



## lost&confused

Hi guys thought I'd say I'm still loving my amp.. I use it connected to my computer using a creative Zxr sound card and HD650 headphones and sounds good ... much better than soundcards amp.......more of that analogue sound I like,  The sound card amp sounds terrible now going back to it.
 My amp rings a bit when changing the volume touching it but goes away in seconds (maybe 20seconds  max)  ......its so faint you hardly hear it anyway and you can't hear it when the musics playing.
 plus I use my winamps  volume mostly so it hardly affects me..... the more you use wear the volume knob in by turning it a lot  the loser it gets making it eaiser smoother. My amps had a few hundred hours now and sounds great well happy for the money
 Vali number 000145


----------



## Xyzygy

As of last week I now have two Vali setups, on for work, one for home.
  
 Work: iFi iDAC => Vali => DT770 250
 Home: Modi => Vali => DT880 250
  
 I used to love the iDAC's built-in amp. Now I can't stand it. Compared to the Vali, it has no stage width or clarity. It's still a great DAC, with an edge on detail compared to the Modi. Maybe I'll try strapping it to a ferret.


----------



## Spiral Out

I received my Vali yesterday and am super pleased. I have almost no ringing in my unit. The only time I noticed any ringing was when I first plugged in my headphones. I'm using it to power my 250 ohm DT 880's with a Music Streamer II for a dac. The more music I listen to the better it sounds! I couldn't be happier!  I do have to turn the volume up to around 1 o clock which was a little surprising to me given I am using 250 0hm cans with it. Most of the threads I had read before I purchased lead me to believe that 9 or 10 o clock would be loud on a medium resistance headphone. It really doesn't matter though as the amp sounds awesome!


----------



## MickeyVee

My Vali seems to be getting better and better.  I really didn't do any critical listening for the first 100 hours or so but did like its presentation.  I got a ringer but it really didn't bother me as it settled within a minute but did have some residual and consistent low level ringing in the right channel.  So, I took it apart, gently lifted up the pads, used a plastic coated paperclip to slightly bend the leads and then laid down the tubes again. This did work to substantially reduce the ringing for me. YMMV.
  
 Over the last few days, other than the subsided ringing, the SQ quality seems to have gone from good, to very, very good.  Black, dynamic, extended but most of all smoother on top (it's still grainy at times but I am using it with the HD800). From day 1, I found the Vali a compelling listen but seems to be enjoying it more now. I'm pairing it with a newly acquired Naim DAC-V1 and switch between using the Vali and the amplifier in the Naim.  Initially, it was no contest, the Naim smoked the Vali in liquidity, detail, soundstage and dynamics.  Not so sure now.  Maybe both the Naim and Vali are continuing to break in. We'll see as time passes. 
  
 Although I still prefer the Naim for its smoothness, the Vali (being a little more forward and edgy) continues to surprise and that's a good thing.  Given that I'm using it to drive the HD800 is truly a credit to it.  Pretty much the best bang/buck money I've spent on HeadFi yet.  Makes me wish I still had dome of my previous cans to see what they would be like with the Vali.


----------



## benjaminhuypham

00dan said:


> Got my Vali and Modi yesterday, and just got notification my DT880 600 ohm is out for delivery. The waiting and anticipation to try this combo is killing me!


 
 Looking forward to seeing your impression (really curious), I just ordered Dt880 600 ohm today, and it will be arrived tomorrow. However, I do not have Vali/Modi, can you ship yours to me? just kidding ^^


----------



## pdrm360

mickeyvee said:


> My Vali seems to be getting better and better.  I really didn't do any critical listening for the first 100 hours or so but did like its presentation.  I got a ringer but it really didn't bother me as it settled within a minute but did have some residual and consistent low level ringing in the right channel.  So, I took it apart, gently lifted up the pads, used a plastic coated paperclip to slightly bend the leads and then laid down the tubes again. This did work to substantially reduce the ringing for me. YMMV.
> 
> Over the last few days, other than the subsided ringing, the SQ quality seems to have gone from good, to very, very good.  Black, dynamic, extended but most of all smoother on top (it's still grainy at times but I am using it with the HD800). From day 1, I found the Vali a compelling listen but seems to be enjoying it more now. I'm pairing it with a newly acquired Naim DAC-V1 and switch between using the Vali and the amplifier in the Naim.  Initially, it was no contest, the Naim smoked the Vali in liquidity, detail, soundstage and dynamics.  Not so sure now.  Maybe both the Naim and Vali are continuing to break in. We'll see as time passes.
> 
> Although I still prefer the Naim for its smoothness, the Vali (being a little more forward and edgy) continues to surprise and that's a good thing.  Given that I'm using it to drive the HD800 is truly a credit to it.  Pretty much the best bang/buck money I've spent on HeadFi yet.  Makes me wish I still had dome of my previous cans to see what its like.


 
  
 Very interesting!  How is the Vali in compare to the WA7?


----------



## Demoninja

I'm definitely interested in trying out the Vali, I currently have an Audioengine D1, do you think it'll be worth it to sell the D1 and get a Modi as well or should I just use the DAC from my D1. Money isn't really an issue, just wondering if there'll be any synergy benefits or anything of that sort by going with the Vali/Modi. over the Vali/D1


----------



## jmttdr

demoninja said:


> I'm definitely interested in trying out the Vali, I currently have an Audioengine D1, do you think it'll be worth it to sell the D1 and get a Modi as well or should I just use the DAC from my D1. Money isn't really an issue, just wondering if there'll be any synergy benefits or anything of that sort by going with the Vali/Modi. over the Vali/D1




I will be trying this combo out on Friday. Asked the exact same question but didn't receive any response. I'm driving a pair of 650's


----------



## MickeyVee

I didn't have the Vali for long before I sold the WA7 so from memory, the WA7 has more guts/power (i.e. sheer volume), better dynamics,  and soundstage. I think the WA7 is a step, not a huge step, but a step above. The WA7 also was dead silent and really is a sexy beast. If Woo ever does an improved WA7 amp without the DAC, I'd consider it.
  
 Quote:


pdrm360 said:


> Very interesting!  How is the Vali in compare to the WA7?


----------



## fabiobueno

Got my Vali today! 
  
 First I should say. The manual is awesome. Maybe some people have more experience with Schiit and already know their jokes. However this is my first Schiit ever, and it was really reassuring to know there were no dead bodies in the packaging. Hope they keep the high standards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A Porsche coupun would be nice, tough. Just as a little plus.
  
 Now, what would be a post about the Vali without talking about rin... *HEY WHAT RINGING?!? *I Think I got lucky here (EXTREMELY UNUSUAL FOR ME). I was a bit apprehensive as I ordered mine in the beginning of december (hooray for Brazil's customs legendary (lack of) speed!).

 Once I set up my unit and turned it on, the first thing I did was tap it... tap it... TAP LIKE CRAZY AND WHERE'S MAH RINGING OH WHY THIS SCHIIT DOES NOT RING?!? WHY??? I had to almost spank the poor little thing to have like 10 seconds of that ever-so-blissful ringing O.O
  
 Alright, the sound. In the last few months I've been using my HD800 with ODAC and O2. And to be honest I never heard that much difference between the Objective combo and my laptop onboard sound.
  
 I've been listening the Vali for almost 2 hours now and gosh I wanna throw the O2 out of the window. It really breathes life into the HD800. Drums and bass have more impact. Depth, presence and realism increased a bit. Very nice.
  
 Listening to Dream Theater self-titled album (HDTracks version), it was like the cymbals were right next to me. I'm used to get this kind of feeling from binaural recordings, but never from a stereo recording. If this thing really gets better with some dozen hours of use... oh wow. I can't wait to hear.
  
 Last, the cons: It gets way more hot than the O2. So I can't leave anime figures over it like I used to do with the O2. Oh well. Nothing is perfect, I guess.
  
 I'm thinking now if the Gungnir would be a nice upgrade over my ODac


----------



## fabiobueno

painted klown said:


> Is the general consensus that the Vali will not work well with low impedance/easy to drive 'phones?
> 
> I currently have Senn HD-598, Grado Sr80i, and Skullcandy Aviators. My next planned HP purchase is the Senn HD-650. I do not plan to buy much/any other cans beyond that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I read some posts saying that the Vali and HD598 are actually a great combination!
  
 Unfortunately my HD598 is borrowed now, so I can't test it myself.
  
 Tried a SR125i and it sounded pretty good, tough. I never imagined that headphone could produce such bass O.o


----------



## Belenga

fabiobueno said:


> I was a bit apprehensive as I ordered mine in the beginning of december (hooray for Brazil's customs legendary (lack of) speed!).


 
  
 I'm thinking of ordering the Vali from Brazil too. So, fabiobueno, which delivery method did you choose? And were there any surprises ($) from customs?
  
 Many thanks.


----------



## fabiobueno

belenga said:


> I'm thinking of ordering the Vali from Brazil too. So, fabiobueno, which delivery method did you choose? And were there any surprises ($) from customs?
> 
> Many thanks.


 
  
 Hello!
  
 I used USPS Priority Express International. A bit more expensive, but does have tracking... (I lost some packages without tracking in the past, so I just can't risk myself anymore) 
  
No surprises from customs... they taxed in 60%, just as expected


----------



## Demoninja

jmttdr said:


> I will be trying this combo out on Friday. Asked the exact same question but didn't receive any response. I'm driving a pair of 650's


 
 Awesome, let me know how it turns out for you. I'll probably be getting a Vali regardless though aha.


----------



## ejwiles

benjaminhuypham said:


> Looking forward to seeing your impression (really curious), I just ordered Dt880 600 ohm today, and it will be arrived tomorrow. However, I do not have Vali/Modi, can you ship yours to me? just kidding ^^


 
 I'm listening to the Vali/Modi through my DT880 250 Ohm right now.  I am still burning it in, but it sounds really, really good.  Mine has no issues with ringing, plugging the headphones in seems to be what causes the most, but it is very faint and gone within 15 seconds.  There is also no noise without music playing, even when it is turned up all the way.  I think you're going to be very happy.
  
 EDIT:  Meant to quote 00Dan.


----------



## Spiral Out

> I'm listening to the Vali/Modi through my DT880 250 Ohm right now.  I am still burning it in, but it sounds really, really good.  Mine has no issues with ringing, plugging the headphones in seems to be what causes the most, but it is very faint and gone within 15 seconds.  There is also no noise without music playing, even when it is turned up all the way.  I think you're going to be very happy.


 
 I got mine yesterday and am listening to DT 880 250 ohms as well. I let it burn in today while I was out and  have been listening most of the evening. I think I have close to 20 hours on it now. Overall the sound is much, much smoother and cleaner than when I listened to it last night. I can't wait to hear what it sounds like in a couple of days!


----------



## infernoRS

I've been looking for a proper amp/dac combo to buy for like 5 years, I bought the HE-400's a while ago after my old HD 555's failed after a long, faithful service, so it would be a good time to do that now. The Vali grabbed my interest immediately when I saw it (damn salesperson even dared to suggest a 1800€ Burson combo lol) and I've been thinking of combining it with the Modi. Would that be a good choice for the HE-400's? I would love some warmth to the tone and guess the Vali should do that. The other choices are pretty much the Magni+Modi, O2+ODAC and FiiO E09K+E17 combos.

  
 Like I said, I like a warm tone, but it should have a strong, tight bottom end and clear, powerful mids and tops too. Hope that's not too much to hope for at that price point. The cans sound fairly good on my Denon AVR-X1000, but that's in the living room and I use them mainly on the pc; now with an old Pioneer stereo amp that's a bit lacking. 
  
 So please, could you give me some recommendations. I could probably spend a bit more too, but I could afford those without hesitation. Please remember, though, that I live in Finland, so not everything is available here and some stuff are very expensive to order too, especially overseas.


----------



## TheDuke990

> Originally Posted by *fabiobueno* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Alright, the sound. In the last few months I've been using my HD800 with ODAC and O2. And to be honest I never heard that much difference between the Objective combo and my laptop onboard sound.
> 
> I've been listening the Vali for almost 2 hours now and gosh I wanna throw the O2 out of the window. It really breathes life into the HD800. Drums and bass have more impact. Depth, presence and realism increased a bit. Very nice.


 
  
 I read in another forum that the combo HD800 and Vali is not really perfect because the Vali cut off the strenght of HD800. Mids, treble, speed and clarity.
 At the moment I'm using an O2+ODAC combo and I'm absolutely happy with it because the combo is so damn neutral. But I'm tempted to do something crazy by ordering a Vali 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## BournePerfect

I don't think anyone ever said a $119 amp was perfect for the HD800. Mids are darn good on it, the treble is tamed a bit, it has good tonality, and nice thumping bass. Can't say I've experienced any other amp under a grand that can make that claim with the Senns.  It is darn good though for it's price-and puts many costlier amps to shame. I agree the speed and transparency could be better-but that's a minor nitpick at this price point imo.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Makiah S

bourneperfect said:


> I don't think anyone ever said a $119 amp was perfect for the HD800. Mids are darn good on it, the treble is tamed a bit, it has good tonality, and nice thumping bass. Can't say I've experienced any other amp under a grand that can make that claim with the Senns.  It is darn good though for it's price-and puts many costlier amps to shame. I agree the speed and transparency could be better-but that's a minor nitpick at this price point imo.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  


cjs06 said:


> Just got my Vali+Modi... wow, just wow. This is my first experience with any Hi-Fi amplifier + DAC, let alone it being a tube amplifier and I am well pleased. I immediately recognized the creamy, rich tube sound and love it. The bass, dear Lord the bass was like, "Oh hey, I know we've just met but we're gonna have a really, really good time." It also introduced me to its friend named staging; layers of instrument separation. Fantastic at presenting me with the subtle nuances in my music.
> 
> I paired it with a Philips Fidelio X1 and SOL Republic Master Tracks. I listen to all kinds of EDM from progressive house, club house, drum/bass and dubstep. I will say its never sounded this good before and the Analog Synths and Bass sound great. Rich and dynamic is the words. I do however prefer the Philips Fidelio X1 over the Master Tracks. Gonna get back to listening
> 
> Oh, and I'm not going to say a **** word about the microphonics


 
 Hazzah! I'm happy to hear it
  


theduke990 said:


> I read in another forum that the combo HD800 and Vali is not really perfect because the Vali cut off the strenght of HD800. Mids, treble, speed and clarity.


 


bourneperfect said:


> I don't think anyone ever said a $119 amp was perfect for the HD800. Mids are darn good on it, the treble is tamed a bit, it has good tonality, and nice thumping bass. Can't say I've experienced any other amp under a grand that can make that claim with the Senns.  It is darn good though for it's price-and puts many costlier amps to shame. I agree the speed and transparency could be better-but that's a minor nitpick at this price point imo.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Good point, at $119 I'm pretty sure it's only the SnobOPhiles who  are complaning about the Synergy. Most likely angry at the first 3 <$1000 amps they owned that did not sound as good as the Vali :3 chances are they could have gotten 5 valis with all the money they lost buying and selling $1000ish amps!


----------



## Belenga

Is anyone able to comment more on actual listening experiences of the Vali with the Denon D2000/5000/7000 or Fostex TH-600/900 headphones? I know that because of technical specifications there might be some issues with noise floor. On the other hand, there were a couple of positive impressions here and there...  but only a couple.

 Thanks!


----------



## Makiah S

belenga said:


> Is anyone able to comment more on actual listening experiences of the Vali with the Denon D2000/5000/7000 or Fostex TH-600/900 headphones? I know that because of technical specifications there might be some issues with noise floor. On the other hand, there were a couple of positive impressions here and there...  but only a couple.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 My w1000x has a simmilar Senstivity and Impedance as the D2k, and I actually own a D2k although I've yet to listen to it with my Vali and atm it's out getting work down
  
 how ever with the w1000x [also a wood back] there is a small amount of noticeable noise, and I'm using my NFB 10ES2's Low Gain Fixed Line out mode, depending on how storng the signal your Dac sends will affect how much noise your going to be hearing as well as how much head room you'll have with the amp


----------



## prsut

belenga said:


> Is anyone able to comment more on actual listening experiences of the Vali with the Denon D2000/5000/7000 or Fostex TH-600/900 headphones? I know that because of technical specifications there might be some issues with noise floor. On the other hand, there were a couple of positive impressions here and there...  but only a couple.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 +1 interested


----------



## stormmilk

Holy schiit!


----------



## normanwang1992

only $120 really??


----------



## Kyle 491

The noise floor is very high with no music playing on the TH900 and the tube ringing at the start is pretty damn loud. However the sound clears up quite nicely with music playing after a minute or two. I wouldn't really favour the TH900 on the Vali over my Matrix M-stage as the soundstage is smaller and the bass tubbier, lacking the sharpness of impact & definition that I'm used too. The treble even feels harsher & spikes more apparent due to the reduced soundstage. There's a uniform fluidity between the bass and midrange, the "wetness" that was described, but then a disconnect in the upper mids to treble which makes the overall presentation feel a bit disjointed and unrefined, at least on the DACs that I've tried. This also applies to my experience with the Vali and unmodded HD800.

So far I most enjoy the HE-500 with Vali, it sounds super smooth and coherent top to bottom unlike the above two.


----------



## Honkytime

normanwang1992 said:


> only $120 really??


 
 well not really it will cost another 30-45$ to get it to Canada... where's free trade when you need it.


----------



## Traum

honkytime said:


> well not really it will cost another 30-45$ to get it to Canada... where's free trade when you need it.



For those who live close enough to the border, you can always just have the item shipped to a border town mail depot, and pick it up yourself there. Depot fee is usually just anywhere between $3.50 to $5, unless your item is really bulky and/or heavy.

Of course, not everyone can feasibly do this, and with the exchange rate absolutely in the dumps right now, cross-border shopping isn't all that attractive at the moment.


----------



## Aaron1006

Got mine about a week ago. Paired with the HD800, sounds great! I don't get any ringing or noise whatsoever, even when tapping or unplugging headphones.


----------



## Transformatron

I just picked up a set of Koss Pro DJ100 Tony Bennett Edition for $30 and these suckers are great with the Vali stack! I don't know why tdockweiler didn't like it. These are leagues ahead of the Monoprice 8323 and I personally think they are much better than the HM5 for listening purposes. I can't even explain the sound signature other than good and engaging.


----------



## tdockweiler

transformatron said:


> I just picked up a set of Koss Pro DJ100 Tony Bennett Edition for $30 and these suckers are great with the Vali stack! I don't know why tdockweiler didn't like it. These are leagues ahead of the Monoprice 8323 and I personally think they are much better than the HM5 for listening purposes. I can't even explain the sound signature other than good and engaging.


 
  
 My Vali had a LOT of ringing and don't know if that had an effect on the overall sound. I got the same results with the DJ100 as with the HD-650. Just sloppy bass and congested sounding (they NEVER sound like this on my O2/Micro). I guess this isn't the general consensus for the HD-650 with the Vali or maybe i'm extremely picky. This did NOT happen at all with my K400 or Q701. Weird right? My Vali did not get more than 25 hours of use, but I doubt it would have been needed if the modded Q701 sounded so good.
  
 I also only tried the DJ100 and not the Tony Bennett. A couple people have said the Tony Bennett edition is a little less warm and has more treble than the DJ100. Not really sure. I have a TB but I never use it much anymore due to losing it's original cable.
  
 If you like the DJ100, try it out with some M50 pads! It really improves many areas and make it sound better for classical/acoustic music and gaming. I mainly use M50 pads for an impression of a larger soundstage and better comfort.
  
 BTW I do find the Modi to be a great match with the DJ100. Heck, the Modi is good with everything! I think it's Schiit's best product (that i've heard).


----------



## Transformatron

tdockweiler said:


> My Vali had a LOT of ringing and don't know if that had an effect on the overall sound. I got the same results with the DJ100 as with the HD-650. Just sloppy bass and congested sounding (they NEVER sound like this on my O2/Micro). I guess this isn't the general consensus for the HD-650 with the Vali or maybe i'm extremely picky. This did NOT happen at all with my K400 or Q701. Weird right? My Vali did not get more than 25 hours of use, but I doubt it would have been needed if the modded Q701 sounded so good.
> 
> I also only tried the DJ100 and not the Tony Bennett. A couple people have said the Tony Bennett edition is a little less warm and has more treble than the DJ100. Not really sure. I have a TB but I never use it much anymore due to losing it's original cable.
> 
> ...


 
 I have some SRH840 pads that I used for my 8323s a few years ago, should I give those a shot?


----------



## tdockweiler

transformatron said:


> I have some SRH840 pads that I used for my 8323s a few years ago, should I give those a shot?


 
  
 I tried those and some SRH-1840 pads and they make the bass totally go out the window on the DJ100. With the DJ100 it depends a lot on a good seal and the size of your ears.
 The DJ100 can probably sound muffled with stock pads for those that have huge ears. SRH-840 pads do work well for some with the DJ100 but not for me.
  
 Too much air between your ears and the driver and there is too much treble presence and you get a thinner sound. I think this is why the SRH-840 pads were so bad.
  
 Surprised that I didn't get lots of noise/hiss with the DJ100 and Vali. It was pretty silent and it's 38ohm.
  
 Vali was pretty amazing with the Q701 and wish I got similar results with everything!
  
 BTW that driver in your avatar looks very similar to the DJ100 driver:
 (it's not a KSC75/PortaPro driver)


----------



## Transformatron

tdockweiler said:


> I tried those and some SRH-1840 pads and they make the bass totally go out the window on the DJ100. With the DJ100 it depends a lot on a good seal and the size of your ears.
> The DJ100 can probably sound muffled with stock pads for those that have huge ears. SRH-840 pads do work well for some with the DJ100 but not for me.
> 
> Too much air between your ears and the driver and there is too much treble presence and you get a thinner sound. I think this is why the SRH-840 pads were so bad.
> ...



My ears are medium sized and fit comfortably in the stock cups. The material is plasticky and slippery which makes it hard to keep them in place. I'll order a pair of M50 pads with my HiFiMAN pad order here in a few days. Another mod suggestions other than pads or should I just enjoy them?

It's actually the Fidelio X1 driver, maybe that driver design is what guarantees a great headphone.


----------



## infernoRS

I ask again, has anyone personally tried the Vali+Modi combo on HE-400's?


----------



## hekeli

You know the button which says "Search This Thread"? It might result in many answers..


----------



## Makiah S

infernors said:


> I ask again, has anyone personally tried the Vali+Modi combo on HE-400's?


 
 If it works for the HE 500 I think it should work for the HE 400 as well, since both share a simmilar bass and treble
  
 I owned the HE 400, btw


----------



## trabunco

I just got my Vali. Harman Kardon CL is doing great but not with the Martin Logan Mikros 90.


----------



## nabwong

infernors said:


> I ask again, has anyone personally tried the Vali+Modi combo on HE-400's?




It's a good combo. The hiss is less on the he400 than my other cans. It tames the highs and gives a lot of punch. Full bodied sound.


----------



## rreifsn

I have tried the vali with HE-400s and it sounds terrific, better than my HD600s.


----------



## Makiah S

nabwong said:


> It's a good combo. The hiss is less on the he400 than my other cans. It tames the highs and gives a lot of punch. Full bodied sound.


 
  
  


rreifsn said:


> I have tried the vali with HE-400s and it sounds terrific, better than my HD600s.


 
 figured it would be that way :3
  
 happy to hear the combo is good


----------



## nicdub

infernors said:


> I ask again, has anyone personally tried the Vali+Modi combo on HE-400's?


 
 i have the modi and vali and it is definitely a good combo.  my initial impression was that the he-400 sounded the best with the vali when compared to the he-500 and the lcd-2.  however, i had my vali replaced due to...wait for it...excessive ringing (tubes were loose and would not stay down, any movement of the cord would produce audible ringing, etc.).  Now i actually feel all three headphones sound pretty amazing with the vali.  what the vali does for the he-400, at least to me, was smooth out some of the treble without losing the overall energy.
  
 the difference in ringing between my first and second vali was significant, and probably in a statistical way (although i have no way to prove it).  schiit handled the situation perfectly, and reinforced my decision to purchase their products.
  
 sorry for the promotional spot, but thought it would be nice to give them some positive feedback (as if they need more)


----------



## infernoRS

Alright, thanks guys. I'll probably order it within a couple of months. I'm just a bit hesitant, because I need to order it from the US and I live in Finland, so if it's faulty, the returns are always a bit of a mess. I also hope I can avoid paying for the customs/VAT, usually they won't even bother asking for any payment, though.


----------



## BournePerfect

aaron1006 said:


> Got mine about a week ago. Paired with the HD800, sounds great! I don't get any ringing or noise whatsoever, even when tapping or unplugging headphones.


 
  
 Maybe you're not tapping hard enough? Bang that SOB until your fingers bleed, don't give up! Until then-don't post in this thread please. Impressions aren't allowed here-only microphonics posts-real, imagined, natural, or hammer-made. Please.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## CJs06

bourneperfect said:


> Maybe you're not tapping hard enough? Bang that SOB until your fingers bleed, don't give up! Until then-don't post in this thread please. Impressions aren't allowed here-only microphonics posts-real, imagined, natural, or hammer-made. Please.
> 
> -Daniel




Hahahahaha


----------



## x838nwy

aaron1006 said:


> Got mine about a week ago. Paired with the HD800, sounds great! I don't get any ringing or noise whatsoever, even when tapping or unplugging headphones.




I'd give Jason a call. They're good with warranties.

Btw, does your amp have "magni" written on the front?


----------



## x838nwy

bourneperfect said:


> Maybe you're not tapping hard enough? Bang that SOB until your fingers bleed, don't give up! Until then-don't post in this thread please. Impressions aren't allowed here-only microphonics posts-real, imagined, natural, or hammer-made. Please.
> 
> -Daniel




^ Lolz. Just saw this. May be there should be a thread on how much and how long the vali rings in response to impacts by various objects like fingers, screw drivers, chicken wings, etc.

or not.


----------



## tdockweiler

x838nwy said:


> ^ Lolz. Just saw this. May be there should be a thread on how much and how long the vali rings in response to impacts by various objects like fingers, screw drivers, chicken wings, etc.
> 
> or not.


 
  
 I think so too. One thing i've found is there is a nice device you can try that makes the ringing go away after about 1000 hours.
 I would suggest putting it inside a desk drawer while asleep:


----------



## Honkytime

ahhh.... never a dull moment in the vali thread


----------



## prions

Hey, just got my Vali/Modi today. Using it with HD 598's.
  
 How much background hissing/noise is acceptable?


----------



## nabwong

infernors said:


> I ask again, has anyone personally tried the Vali+Modi combo on HE-400's?


 
  
 I just received my o2+odac today and I prefer it to the modi-vali with the HE-400. This is an initial impression but some observations. 
  
 1. HE-400 is known for its speed and separation. The o2-odac makes those features 100x better than the schiit. (Ok, i'm exagerating, only 99x better). The schiit sounds sluggish compared to the o2. 
 2. I tested modi vs odac (with o2) and the odac sounds cleaner. The modi sounds slightly congested. So i'm not sure if it's the vali that is making it sluggish/congested. Maybe it's the modi. 
 3. The o2 is BLACK! Dead silent. No hiss, no microphonics. 
 4. The 2.5x gain (o2) is plenty for HE-400. I'm beginning to get annoyed by the 4x on the Vali. In fact, the 6.5x gain on the o2 sounds worse than the 2.5x. That might just be me. I might mod to get 1x/2.5x.
  
 Maybe it's just new buyer's excitement. I can't discount that out. The Vali sounds more lush but at the cost of sounding slightly sluggish.


----------



## nabwong

prions said:


> Hey, just got my Vali/Modi today. Using it with HD 598's.
> 
> How much background hissing/noise is acceptable?


 
  
 If you're annoyed, then it's not acceptable. LOL.


----------



## prions

nabwong said:


> If you're annoyed, then it's not acceptable. LOL.


 
  
 I'm not annoyed by it, I just wanted to know if hissing is normal or I should get a new Vali.


----------



## bearFNF

prions said:


> I'm not annoyed by it, I just wanted to know if hissing is normal or I should get a new Vali.


 

 So are you annoyed? no..so far so good
 so...
 These are the questions you need to ask.
 Do you like the sound? ...
 Will you become annoyed in the future? ...
 Is there a noise floor? Yes, is it too much? Only you can answer that.


----------



## x838nwy

bearfnf said:


> So are you annoyed? no..so far so good
> so...
> These are the questions you need to ask.
> Do you like the sound? ...
> ...




By the sound of things, he's not super annoyed. He just wants to know if it's common/normal among Vali's.

@prions - have you tried tapping it? With a screwdriver?


----------



## prions

x838nwy said:


> By the sound of things, he's not super annoyed. He just wants to know if it's common/normal among Vali's.
> 
> @prions - have you tried tapping it? With a screwdriver?


 
  
 Exactly, I just want to make sure my unit isn't exceptionally sensitive seeing as it took a long time to ship and I hate sending things back if I don't have to.
  
 Tapping it does cause mild ringing which subsides in around ~20-30 seconds. The volume knob is also causing ringing. I understand that's normal. I recieved my stack today and as I'm using the amp more I found the hissing to subside slightly, it's not loud at all.


----------



## nabwong

prions said:


> Exactly, I just want to make sure my unit isn't exceptionally sensitive seeing as it took a long time to ship and I hate sending things back if I don't have to.
> 
> Tapping it does cause mild ringing which subsides in around ~20-30 seconds. The volume knob is also causing ringing. I understand that's normal. I recieved my stack today and as I'm using the amp more I found the hissing to subside slightly, it's not loud at all.




Then I think it's normal for the vali. Did u check if your tubes are down?


----------



## prions

nabwong said:


> Then I think it's normal for the vali. Did u check if your tubes are down?


 
 Yeah they were down but I pressed them down a bit more and tried to relax the leads a bit. It seemed to help out actually. 
  
 Getting the light back through the small hole was pretty annoying though


----------



## jimmers

nabwong said:


> In fact, the 6.5x gain on the o2 sounds worse than the 2.5x. That might just be me.


 
 DAC output will overload O2 front end (VAS) at 6.5x, will sound a lot worse.


----------



## bizkid

Are there any EU dealers that have the Vali in stock?


----------



## Makiah S

nabwong said:


> Maybe it's just new buyer's excitement. I can't discount that out. The Vali sounds more lush but at the cost of sounding slightly sluggish.


 
 Yeaper, that's how I find it as well, although the better your dac the less sluggish it sounds, I've got a review of the Vali vs my NFB 10ES2. Give it a read, 
  
 I found there where times when I enjoyed the smoothness and times when I wanted dat SOLID STATE SPEEEEED


----------



## bala

bizkid said:


> Are there any EU dealers that have the Vali in stock?


 

 My search did not turn up any! But hopefully, should come up soon at Electromod & Audiophonics.


----------



## jmttdr

bala said:


> My search did not turn up any! But hopefully, should come up soon at Electromod & Audiophonics.


 
 In stock at Electromod. I ordered mine Monday...


----------



## bizkid

jmttdr said:


> In stock at Electromod. I ordered mine Monday...


 
  
 A bit too expensive for my taste (£119.00) which turns out to be around 150€ with shipping. We need more shiit dealers over here


----------



## nabwong

mshenay said:


> Yeaper, that's how I find it as well, although the better your dac the less sluggish it sounds, I've got a review of the Vali vs my NFB 10ES2. Give it a read,
> 
> I found there where times when I enjoyed the smoothness and times when I wanted dat SOLID STATE SPEEEEED




Link?


----------



## bala

bizkid said:


> A bit too expensive for my taste (£119.00) which turns out to be around 150€ with shipping. We need more shiit dealers over here


 

 +1


----------



## prsut

I'm on the same boat.
  
 But ordered directly from Schiit. I just want to be sure I will have latest production unit ("ringers" tested, tube legs properly bent... as Jason stated ). It will cost me at about 150E including customs/VAT to Slovakia. Will be derivered by FedEx (tracking and insurrance included) as of 15th january...


----------



## jmttdr

bizkid said:


> A bit too expensive for my taste (£119.00) which turns out to be around 150€ with shipping. We need more shiit dealers over here


 
 You're right! Retails at $119. So £119 is steep. But maybe its the same for you, there is a lot less choice in the UK of AMPS, and with my small budget, shipping charges etc just aren't worth it for me!


----------



## hekeli

I just took the cheapest shipping, who cares about tracking and insurance for such cheap item. Total little under 140€ (24%!! vat, credit card fees etc all included). Took a week to get here with simple post customs (Fedex much slower here to deal with).


----------



## theOmni

Hey, everyone. I have a question. I'm using this amp on my gaming desktop paired with a Q701 headphone. The sound is being processed by an X-FI Titanium HD sound card. The card has a L output, R output (the red and white wires), and a headphone output. Should I be using the L/R jacks to the vali's L/R jacks or should I be using the headphone jack to the vali's L/R jack? I have both wires available.


----------



## Honkytime

theomni said:


> Hey, everyone. I have a question. I'm using this amp on my gaming desktop paired with a Q701 headphone. The sound is being processed by an X-FI Titanium HD sound card. The card has a L output, R output (the red and white wires), and a headphone output. Should I be using the L/R jacks to the vali's L/R jacks or should I be using the headphone jack to the vali's L/R jack? I have both wires available.


 
 i would use the red and white rca jacks off the ti HD. note that once you plug in the headphone jack it disables the rca outputs.


----------



## theOmni

Thank you for your help! When I used the headphone jack straight to my Q701 (before I had the vali), I had my windows sound settings set as 5.1 surround and I was able to hear things in surround. But now, with just the RCA out, I can only set my sound to stereo because with the 5.1 I can only hear the L/R sound.


----------



## CJs06

prions said:


> Hey, just got my Vali/Modi today. Using it with HD 598's.
> 
> How much background hissing/noise is acceptable?


 
 It depends on the type of headphones and their impedance and efficiency. My Philips X1 has no audible hiss with the Vali, even if I crank the volume up all the way. My SOL Master Tracks have a faint but audible hiss at all volume levels. My Grado SR60s have a barely noticeable hiss. So the noise floor (or hiss) just depends on the type of headphones and its completely normal.


----------



## BournePerfect

nabwong said:


> Link?


 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/audio-gd-nfb-10es2-balanced-desktop-amp-dac/reviews/10257


----------



## thegunner100

nabwong said:


> Link?


 
  
 And mine. But not so much a review.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1815#post_10040009


----------



## Makiah S

nabwong said:


> Link?


 
http://hifilittleriver.blogspot.com/
  
 I have that in my sig as well, sorry for not mentioning it >.>


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Left the party and now coming back, does anyone have the link or page where there's a description on the difference of the new Vali? And how they solved the microphonics?


----------



## CJs06

I would tell you to use the "Search This Thread" feature in the forums, as it is incredibly useful, BUT!!! Since every page in this thread is about micro-phonics, you're SOL... btw, there is no solving micro-phonics, its a feature on the Vali


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

cjs06 said:


> I would tell you to use the "Search This Thread" feature in the forums, as it is incredibly useful, BUT!!! Since every page in this thread is about micro-phonics, you're SOL... btw, there is no solving micro-phonics, its a feature on the Vali


 

 Someone mentioned on another thread (DT880 appreciation) said that there is a new version of the Vali that does not have the microphonics problem. Or at least not to the extent of the first ones.


----------



## CJs06

soundsgoodtome said:


> Someone mentioned on another thread (DT880 appreciation) said that there is a new version of the Vali that does not have the microphonics problem. Or at least not to the extent of the first ones.


 
 The only difference is recently Schiit started pre-bending the leads attached to the tubes in the Vali that "supposedly" help reduce the ringing caused by microphonics but it definitely doesn't eliminate it. I know this because I have a recently built Vali and can attest. Anyone who says there isn't any ringing or has eliminated it is lying.

 "*So what's the catch?*
 Compared to Magni? Several. One, Vali's ultimate power output is lower, so it's less suitable to orthodynamics and other hard-to-drive headphones. Two, many tubes, including the ones in Vali, are microphonic. When you plug in headphones on Vali, you'll hear a little "tiiinnnnggg...." noise that takes quite a while to go away. If you rap the chassis, it will do the same thing. If you work on, say, a paint shaker table, Vali's not going to be the best amp for you. Three, tubes also have a lifespan, though Vali's tubes are expected to last 10,000-20,000 hours--which is 7-14 years of listening 4 hours a day, every day." - FAQ http://schiit.com/products/vali


----------



## CJs06

cjs06 said:


> The only difference is recently Schiit started pre-bending the leads attached to the tubes in the Vali that "supposedly" help reduce the ringing caused by microphonics but it definitely doesn't eliminate it. I know this because I have a recently built Vali and can attest. Anyone who says there isn't any ringing or has eliminated it is lying.
> 
> "*So what's the catch?*
> Compared to Magni? Several. One, Vali's ultimate power output is lower, so it's less suitable to orthodynamics and other hard-to-drive headphones. Two, many tubes, including the ones in Vali, are microphonic. When you plug in headphones on Vali, you'll hear a little "tiiinnnnggg...." noise that takes quite a while to go away. If you rap the chassis, it will do the same thing. If you work on, say, a paint shaker table, Vali's not going to be the best amp for you. Three, tubes also have a lifespan, though Vali's tubes are expected to last 10,000-20,000 hours--which is 7-14 years of listening 4 hours a day, every day." - FAQ http://schiit.com/products/vali


 
 ****, see! Now I'm talking about micro-phonics! This is why we can't have nice things :/


----------



## nabwong

bourneperfect said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/audio-gd-nfb-10es2-balanced-desktop-amp-dac/reviews/10257


 
  
 Good read. I'll need to check out the audio gd sometime.


----------



## bearFNF

cjs06 said:


> The only difference is recently Schiit started pre-bending the leads attached to the tubes in the Vali that "supposedly" help reduce the ringing caused by microphonics but it definitely doesn't eliminate it. I know this because I have a recently built Vali and can attest. *Anyone who says there isn't any ringing or has eliminated it is lying*.


 
 Maybe not lying per se but, either exaggerating or they _think _it has been solved cause they cant hear it...


----------



## CJs06

bearfnf said:


> Maybe not lying per se but, either exaggerating or they _think _it has been solved cause they cant hear it...


 
 Yeah I guess people with hearing loss could probably barely hear the ringing, if at all. It is what it is.


----------



## nicdub

The intensity and length of ringing changed dramatically for me when I got my replacement. The only difference I can see is the tubes are staying down. Either way, I am a happy camper,


----------



## lord_tris

Rules of owning a Vali::
 1 When you plug your headphones in get a small extension 1/4 to 1/4 6-8 inches long solves the ringin issue. I made one for 5 bucks. 
 2 Taping the amp...Don't hit the dang thing.. Why would you want to do that anyway? Seriously.
 3 Its a 120 dollar tube amp using microphonic tubes Take it for what it is. 
 4 If you have a problem with the amp or what it is doing. Then send it back to get repaired or get a refund. 
 5 You have to be careful around your tube amp.
 6 Let it warm up before you use it.  Have your headphone plugged in before you turn it on. or see rule 1
  
 As for sound it does sound very good for what it is. Schiit did a good job with what they had to use, I would not hesitate to buy this amp again.


----------



## M-13

nicdub said:


> The intensity and length of ringing changed dramatically for me when I got my replacement. The only difference I can see is the tubes are staying down. Either way, I am a happy camper,


 

 Can you explain a bit more about how the ringing changed dramatically?


----------



## lord_tris

m-13 said:


> Can you explain a bit more about how the ringing changed dramatically?


 
 Going to guess it has way less of it.


----------



## M-13

lord_tris said:


> Going to guess it has way less of it.


 

 Wow that's super helpful. Thanks man. Brilliant!


----------



## nicdub

m-13 said:


> Can you explain a bit more about how the ringing changed dramatically?




The ringing is not as loud and subsides much faster when plugging in the headphone, which may be less of an issue for those willing to wait while the ringing goes away before putting headphones on. Sometimes I can barely even hear it after plugging the headphone in with the headphones already on. However, the bigger issue for me was the nearly constant ringing that occurred while listening, and any slight, and I really mean slight, movement of the cable would produce ringing, loud enough to be heard through the music. Given, I was using the seemingly highly microphonic cable that comes with the he-500 at first, but it was also occurring with the he-400. Also, touching the vali to simply turn up the volume would produce noticeable ringing that was audible through the music. 

What this ultimately lead to, before getting a replacement, was me sitting as still as possible, not changing the volume, and feeling pretty constrained. Post-replacement I am able to really the enjoy the music more while worrying less about the aforementioned issues.


----------



## M-13

nicdub said:


> The ringing is not as loud and subsides much faster when plugging in the headphone, which may be less of an issue for those willing to wait while the ringing goes away before putting headphones on. Sometimes I can barely even hear it after plugging the headphone in with the headphones already on. However, the bigger issue for me was the nearly constant ringing that occurred while listening, and any slight, and I really mean slight, movement of the cable would produce ringing, loud enough to be heard through the music. Given, I was using the seemingly highly microphonic cable that comes with the he-500 at first, but it was also occurring with the he-400. Also, touching the vali to simply turn up the volume would produce noticeable ringing that was audible through the music.
> 
> What this ultimately lead to, before getting a replacement, was me sitting as still as possible, not changing the volume, and feeling pretty constrained. Post-replacement I am able to really the enjoy the music more while worrying less about the aforementioned issues.


 

 So, now can you change the volume without ringing? I can accept ringing after plugging in the headphone, but probably not for every little volume change.


----------



## CJs06

I started to yell obscenities and expletives because this thread keeps repeating itself over and over in regards to "micro-phonics". The funny thing is my Vali started ringing because of me yelling! hahahahahaha... Oh the Irony


----------



## nicdub

cjs06 said:


> I started to yell obscenities and expletives because this thread keeps repeating itself over and over in regards to "micro-phonics". The funny thing is my Vali started ringing because of me yelling! hahahahahaha... Oh the Irony




Yeah, beating a dead horse for sure.


----------



## lord_tris

nicdub said:


> Yeah, beating a dead horse for sure.


 
 Over and over and over and well over....
  
 Talk about the sound once you get past your tiiing noise so we can get more impressions up in this thread.


----------



## nicdub

m-13 said:


> So, now can you change the volume without ringing? I can accept ringing after plugging in the headphone, but probably not for every little volume change.




Yep. I found it unacceptable, or at least annoying. Great amp though. The more I listen to it the more I love it.


----------



## CJs06

nicdub said:


> Yep. I found it unacceptable, or at least annoying. Great amp though. The more I listen to it the more I love it.


 
 Me too! I've had mine 4 days now and replaced the stock cable on my Philips X1s. I noticed a very slight change, a little bit more sparkle in the higher frequencies but that's all the difference I could tell. The bass is soooooooo goooooood when paired with the X1s. Love it.


----------



## prions

Well I started to notice that around every 8 minutes I get a weird signal/popping noise that lasts for around 5 seconds. I'm not sure if it's my computer making that noise or the amp but I really don't want to send this one back if I don't have to. Has anyone else experienced this? If anything, I'm going to wait a few more days to see if it subsides. 
  
 I really don't like making negative posts but besides this I've really been enjoying the amp.


----------



## bearFNF

prions said:


> Well I started to notice that around every 8 minutes I get a weird signal/popping noise that lasts for around 5 seconds. I'm not sure if it's my computer making that noise or the amp but I really don't want to send this one back if I don't have to. Has anyone else experienced this? If anything, I'm going to wait a few more days to see if it subsides.
> 
> I really don't like making negative posts but besides this I've really been enjoying the amp.


 

 Try it with a different source and see if it is coming from your computer.


----------



## prions

It seems to have stopped, was most likely my input then. 
  
 Also the ringing and background noise have been significantly lower as I use the amp more.


----------



## Makiah S

cjs06 said:


> I would tell you to use the "Search This Thread" feature in the forums, as it is incredibly useful, BUT!!! Since every page in this thread is about micro-phonics, you're SOL... btw, there is no solving micro-phonics, its a feature on the Vali


 
 Yea how ever many of the new versions seems to have less issues. It's always going to have the Mircophonics but, there's a lot less now on the newer models than the older.


----------



## Beagle

cjs06 said:


> I started to yell obscenities and expletives because this thread keeps repeating itself over and over in regards to "micro-phonics". The funny thing is my Vali started ringing because of me yelling! hahahahahaha... Oh the Irony


 
  
 I went to my doctor because I had tinnitus in my right ear but only when using the Vali. He suggested getting a second Vali for my left ear.


----------



## olor1n

mshenay said:


> cjs06 said:
> 
> 
> > I would tell you to use the "Search This Thread" feature in the forums, as it is incredibly useful, BUT!!! Since every page in this thread is about micro-phonics, you're SOL... btw, there is no solving micro-phonics, its a feature on the Vali
> ...




That's misinformation. Schiit have simply introduced an extra step in quality control to pre-bend the tube pins. There isn't a new version or model.


----------



## CJs06

olor1n said:


> That's misinformation. Schiit have simply introduced an extra step in quality control to pre-bend the tube pins. There isn't a new version or model.



^This


----------



## MickeyVee

Ant his is something that we can all do with the older models.  I did this to mine with some success. I just took the top off, gently lifted the tubes and used a plastic coated paper clip to gently bend the leads.. pushed the tubes back down and put the top back on.  Pretty simple.
  
 Quote:


olor1n said:


> That's misinformation. Schiit have simply introduced an extra step in quality control to pre-bend the tube pins. There isn't a new version or model.


----------



## jaywillin

mickeyvee said:


>


 

 i did it too, helps, a little microphonics doesn't really bother me
 compared to the noise that one can get from bravo's, g3's, little dots(on occasion) the minor inconvenience of waiting less than a minute for the glorious sound the vali is capable of, is a small price to pay ! and when you pay so little, who gives a schiit !! lol


----------



## Makiah S

olor1n said:


> That's misinformation. Schiit have simply introduced an extra step in quality control to pre-bend the tube pins. There isn't a new version or model.


 
 True enough but if they are tightening up their QC then I'd call that a revision, not a huge one but it's obviously having a noticeable effect, besides they are making an active physical change... I'd call that a revision. still thank you for the correction


----------



## OmarCCX

I can buy a used Magni from a friend for $70 or a new Vali. I plan to use them with a -12dbA attenuator with a GR07. Sound wise, which do most of you prefer? 
 I feel like, since the GR07 are fairly neutral, the Vali would make it sound slightly different, which would be cool, but the price on the Magni is really awesome.


----------



## Makiah S

omarccx said:


> I can buy a used Magni from a friend for $70 or a new Vali. I plan to use them with a -12dbA attenuator with a GR07. Sound wise, which do most of you prefer?
> I feel like, since the GR07 are fairly neutral, the Vali would make it sound slightly different, which would be cool, but the price on the Magni is really awesome.


 
 true... depends on you though
  
 Try out the Magni, that's a nice price on it :3


----------



## CJs06

omarccx said:


> I can buy a used Magni from a friend for $70 or a new Vali. I plan to use them with a -12dbA attenuator with a GR07. Sound wise, which do most of you prefer?
> I feel like, since the GR07 are fairly neutral, the Vali would make it sound slightly different, which would be cool, but the price on the Magni is really awesome.


 
 Get both!


----------



## jmttdr

demoninja said:


> Awesome, let me know how it turns out for you. I'll probably be getting a Vali regardless though aha.


 

  
 Me and the parrot approve!


----------



## eke2k6

jmttdr said:


> Me and the parrot approve!


 
  
  
 *The parrot and I.


----------



## Makiah S

jmttdr said:


> Me and the parrot approve!


 
 zome he's so CUTE 
 and apprently the Vali is as tasty as it sounds! 


eke2k6 said:


> Forgive me I'm a grammar Nazi


 
 Your forgiven sir!


----------



## eke2k6

mshenay said:


> Your forgiven sir!


 
  
 Heil Alphabet!


----------



## StanD

The Vali has arrived, today. I haven't had too much time with it yet, but so far so good. On back it shows S/N 000786. Peering through the holes on top, it appears that both tubes are in their proper position. So far I've tried it with three cans and one pair of IEM's with nothing scary to report.
  
 I'll say for a mere $119 this is some bad Schiit and probably beats the crap out of stuff selling for more on eBay. So I ordered this on impulse from Amazon on Thursday night figuring how can they produce this for $199 and make it sound decent. It arrived, today, Saturday afternoon. I figured that it wasn't a lot to spend to satisfy my curiosity.
  
 There's plenty of juice for the HD600's, turned up all the way it's plenty loud but not painful. I listen on the loud side but not headbanging crazy loud, I can listen with the HD600's with the volume at 12 o'clock and call that loud enough.
  
 The HE-500's get loud enough but I won't have to worry about damaging my hearing. I have it listening with the knob at around 2:15 o'clock and that'll work for me. As expected these required more juice than the HD600's.
  
 Just for Schiit and giggles I just plugged in a pair of Sony XBA-3 Triple Balanced Armature IEMs. These are more sensitive with a little more treble emphasis than the other two cans. In this case I can hear a little hiss and the ringing is more apparent when I plug in the jack. I didn't listen too carefully for the quality of bass, I'll check later. My concern is that they are 12 Ohms and the 6.5 output impedance of the Vali may not be low enough for proper damping. The HE-500's are 38 Ohms which normally would still be too low for a dynamic, but these are orthodynamic and should not be a problem.
  
 So after reading many of the posts I was a bit concerned over the whinging about microphonics and ringing. But with the two cans I just tried, I think I'll be OK. I'm sure that some of you may have samples with bigger issues, so I'm glad to have gotten the luck of the draw.....Hold it let me try a pair of Momentum around ear cans........these are more sensitive and I can hear a bit of hiss. OK, back to the HE-500's.
  
 Switching plugs/cans does make them ring for a while but it's not a loud in your face ringing, at least my sample doesn't seem to do so. Turning the volume knob or touching the case has no ill affect on my unit. Let see how I feel about this further down the road. Since I plan to use this amp with the HD600's and HE500's I don't think the hiss I heard with the XBA-3's and Momentums will be an issue. Did I mention? This amp does sound really nice. I had concerns about headroom, but in the short time I've spent with the Vali I haven't yet heard anything that give rise to concern, time will tell.
  
 I'm not a big believer in burn in for amps, since IMO my brain and ears went through burn in many years ago, I'll be listening to familiar music to judge the sonic qualities of the Vali in the next few days. I'm hoping that no issues will turn up with microphonics or ringing. I'll be listening for issues with headroom or unwanted distortion. Now it's back to listening to music. Catch 'ya later.


----------



## lord_tris

Well said sir. This is what we should be reading about the Vali.  I like it.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

stand said:


> The Vali has arrived, today. I haven't had too much time with it yet, but so far so good. On back it shows S/N 000786. Peering through the holes on top, it appears that both tubes are in their proper position. So far I've tried it with three cans and one pair of IEM's with nothing scary to report.
> 
> The HE-500's get loud enough but I won't have to worry about damaging my hearing. I have it listening with the knob at around 2:15 o'clock and that'll work for me. As expected these required more juice than the HD600's.


 
 Great quickie. The HE500s get loud enough at 2:15, how high does the volume pot go? 6 o'clock? 9 o'clock? Does the HE500 get too loud at max volume?


----------



## CJs06

I'm just saying, but anything past 9:30 on the volume knob using my Philips X1s and it is too loud for me (depending on the source of course). I guess thats normal for low impedance though.


----------



## lord_tris

cjs06 said:


> I'm just saying, but anything past 9:30 on the volume knob using my Philips X1s and it is too loud for me (depending on the source of course). I guess thats normal for low impedance though.


 
 I stick around the 10-1030 spot with my grado cans


----------



## StanD

lord_tris said:


> Well said sir. This is what we should be reading about the Vali.  I like it.


 
 Thanks. I'm still listening with the HE-500's and I'm liking it. The bass is good. Cymbals and bells have the right sound, got the metallic clink right. Things go pop when they should. Instruments sound real.


----------



## StanD

soundsgoodtome said:


> Great quickie. The HE500s get loud enough at 2:15, how high does the volume pot go? 6 o'clock? 9 o'clock? Does the HE500 get too loud at max volume?


 
 The volume pot is at minimum at 7 'o'clock, turns clockwise and max's out at 5 o'clock. It's plenty loud at max or 5 o'clock with the HE500's, just not blasting or painful. People that know me think I listen too loudly and I don't see a need to have it cranked up all the way. If you own a pair of HE-6's or something with that low efficiency/sensitivity then this is not the amp for that set of cans, however, most people don't have such cans.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> I'm just saying, but anything past 9:30 on the volume knob using my Philips X1s and it is too loud for me (depending on the source of course). I guess thats normal for low impedance though.


 
 I wouldn't say that low impedance is the determining factor. Different cans/IEM's have different sensitivities which at the same impedance can make a big difference in how loud the sound is. Then of course we are each different in our tastes and ears. In fact many tube amps that are great for driving 300 Ohm cans can't deliver enough power at low impedances for less sensitive cans. The Vali is a hybrid with a SS output stage and can deliver a decent amount of power. If one needs more power from a tube or hybrid then the wallet may have to open up a bit more.


----------



## Demoninja

jmttdr said:


> Me and the parrot approve!


 
  
 That's great to hear! Ugh my OCD makes me want to get a Modi for the visuals aha. Nice parrot! I've always been interested in owning a bird but I've never made the plunge.


----------



## x838nwy

demoninja said:


> That's great to hear! Ugh my OCD makes me want to get a Modi for the visuals aha. Nice parrot! I've always been interested in owning a bird but I've never made the plunge.




I own a modi and my legendary ocd is pointing me in the opposing direction to yours. The vali has been in my 'cart' may ne a thousand times over now.


----------



## bizkid

How bad is the background noise with Audio-Technica headphones?


----------



## jmttdr

demoninja said:


> That's great to hear! Ugh my OCD makes me want to get a Modi for the visuals aha. Nice parrot! I've always been interested in owning a bird but I've never made the plunge.




I will go for the Modi or Cambridge DacMagic 100 (as it has optical in). She's a Parrotlet. Amazing and also tiny. Main thing they need it your time daily as they bond to you. And vigilance as they LOVE wires. Go for it.


----------



## Makiah S

eke2k6 said:


> Heil Alphabet!


 
 ... touche good sir touche! 
  


bizkid said:


> How bad is the background noise with Audio-Technica headphones?


 
 Not bad, my w1000x doesn't pick up much at all


----------



## cakebreaker

Been using my Vali w/Beyer DT880/250 for a couple weeks now. I like it, there is some synergy for sure. However, this is not what I'm about to say. There is something completely unreasonable that I'm experiencing right now. I no longer trust my ears! 
 Today, for $50, I got an old Onkyo TX 8511 integrated amp from a garage sale. The amp in a good shape, no problems whatsoever so I decided to try it like this:
  
 Foobar2000 -->Fiio X3 (DAC)-->Onkyo TX 8511-->Beyer DT880/250
  
 Man! The sound I'm hearing is unbelievable! So full and reach and yet clear and crisp. I can't stop listening my music! 
 Do you think it is even possible that 15 years old Onkyo TX 8511 easily outperforms Vali or I'm going deаf?


----------



## CJs06

Not sure on that one, I don't know enough on integrated receivers and the quality of the components or its design. I'm certain someone here does.
 Here is the manual for the receiver, specs are on the last page http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-8511_manual_e.pdf.


----------



## cakebreaker

cjs06 said:


> Not sure on that one, I don't know enough on integrated receivers and the quality of the components or its design. I'm certain someone here does.
> Here is the manual for the receiver, specs are on the last page http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-8511_manual_e.pdf.


 
 Thanks. I did check this manual earlier. Not very helpful, unfortunately. Very basic stuff. I'm more interested in specs specifically what chip(s) it uses to amp the headphone output.


----------



## CJs06

You could always crack open the receiver and do a little exploring


----------



## K.T.

cakebreaker said:


> Been using my Vali w/Beyer DT880/250 for a couple weeks now. I like it, there is some synergy for sure. However, this is not what I'm about to say. There is something completely unreasonable that I'm experiencing right now. I no longer trust my ears!
> Today, for $50, I got an old Onkyo TX 8511 integrated amp from a garage sale. The amp in a good shape, no problems whatsoever so I decided to try it like this:
> 
> Foobar2000 -->Fiio X3 (DAC)-->Onkyo TX 8511-->Beyer DT880/250
> ...




Yes, please bring your ears in for a warranty replacement. LOL.

Synergy is king in my book. Although I don't know anything about your receiver, it may, indeed, be a more synergistic match with your phones. If your receiver sounds better than the Vali with your phones, I say go for it! 

Use the Vali with something else. It does shine with a wide range of other phones, so you win both ways!


----------



## cakebreaker

cjs06 said:


> You could always crack open the receiver and do a little exploring


 
 Yeah, this is probably the way to go


----------



## cakebreaker

k.t. said:


> Yes, please bring your ears in for a warranty replacement. LOL.
> 
> Synergy is king in my book. Although I don't know anything about your receiver, it may, indeed, be a more synergistic match with your phones. If your receiver sounds better than the Vali with your phones, I say go for it!
> 
> Use the Vali with something else. It does shine with a wide range of other phones, so you win both ways!


 
 LOL. That shouldn't be a problem for me to find another way of using Vali. Loving this little beast!


----------



## Spiral Out

> ~~Been using my Vali w/Beyer DT880/250 for a couple weeks now. I like it, there is some synergy for sure. However, this is not what I'm about to say. There is something completely unreasonable that I'm experiencing right now. I no longer trust my ears!  Today, for $50, I got an old Onkyo TX 8511 integrated amp from a garage sale. The amp in a good shape, no problems whatsoever so I decided to try it like this: Foobar2000 -->Fiio X3 (DAC)-->Onkyo TX 8511-->Beyer DT880/250 Man! The sound I'm hearing is unbelievable! So full and reach and yet clear and crisp. I can't stop listening my music!  Do you think it is even possible that 15 years old Onkyo TX 8511 easily outperforms Vali or I'm going deаf?


 
  
 I have pretty much the same setup going on as you do: Mine is a Music Streamer II --> Vali --> Beyer DT 880 250 ohm. It's funny because I have almost the same receiver that you just bought, except mine is the TX-8211, not the 8511. I think the difference between the two is the 8211 is 50 watts per channel, the 8511 is 100 watts. The headphone section between the two should be identical.
  
  After reading your post I decided to hook the DT 880's up to the Onkyo. You know what, it does sound pretty good! I was somewhat surprised! But to be honest, the 880's do not sound nearly as clean to me out of the Onkyo.  They seem a little bottom heavy and thick with no sense of air or separation of instruments. I don't think I would ever forgo the Vali for the Onkyo, but if I didn't have an amp I could be fairly content listening through the Onkyo, at least until I got a new amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 But if it sounds better to you then that's awesome!! It's always fun to get a new piece of equipment and find an unexpected surprise!!!


----------



## CJs06

k.t. said:


> Yes, please bring your ears in for a warranty replacement. LOL.
> 
> Synergy is king in my book. Although I don't know anything about your receiver, it may, indeed, be a more synergistic match with your phones. If your receiver sounds better than the Vali with your phones, I say go for it!
> 
> Use the Vali with something else. It does shine with a wide range of other phones, so you win both ways!


 
  
 I think alot of it boils down to synergy too. I really enjoy reviewers who take a broad selection of headphones and try to find the best "synergy" or match with an amplifier or amplifier/dac. Those are the best reviews IMO. I've tried a few different types of headphones with the Vali to include Grados and Ultrasones, but I most enjoy using my Philips X1s.


----------



## cakebreaker

spiral out said:


> I have pretty much the same setup going on as you do: Mine is a Music Streamer II --> Vali --> Beyer DT 880 250 ohm. It's funny because I have almost the same receiver that you just bought, except mine is the TX-8211, not the 8511. I think the difference between the two is the 8211 is 50 watts per channel, the 8511 is 100 watts. The headphone section between the two should be identical.
> 
> After reading your post I decided to hook the DT 880's up to the Onkyo. You know what, it does sound pretty good! I was somewhat surprised! But to be honest, the 880's do not sound nearly as clean to me out of the Onkyo.  They seem a little bottom heavy and thick with no sense of air or separation of instruments. I don't think I would ever forgo the Vali for the Onkyo, but if I didn't have an amp I could be fairly content listening through the Onkyo, at least until I got a new amp
> 
> ...


 
 Have you tried it with the Selective Tone Control? Do you get the same impressions?


----------



## Spiral Out

You know what mine doesn't have that feature. It just has the basic treble,bass, and balance. I listened with all the tone controls at neutral. It seems the 8511 has more features than the 8211 and maybe a better headphone output stage. That might be why you and I have a different impression.


----------



## cakebreaker

spiral out said:


> You know what mine doesn't have that feature. It just has the basic treble,bass, and balance. I listened with all the tone controls at neutral. It seems the 8511 has more features than the 8211 and maybe a better headphone output stage. That might be why you and I have a different impression.


 
 Well, I just ordered HiFiMAN HE-400 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, more tests to come...
 Thanks for sharing man!


----------



## Spiral Out

No problem! The HE-400's are supposed to be awesome!! Enjoy!


----------



## jimmers

cakebreaker said:


> Very basic stuff. I'm more interested in specs specifically what chip(s) it uses to amp the headphone output.


 
 Onkyo TX 8511 headphone output is the speaker output via 390 Ohm series resistor. (will give a little boost in the bass for DT 880/250)


----------



## cakebreaker

jimmers said:


> Onkyo TX 8511 headphone output is the speaker output via 390 Ohm series resistor. (will give a little boost in the bass for DT 880/250)


 
 Thanks. That is definitely the case. I also found out that it uses NJM2068 opamp.


----------



## StanD

cakebreaker said:


> Well, I just ordered HiFiMAN HE-400
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Be careful about using a receiver. One thing is that they usually do not have a separate amp for the headphone jack but instead have resistors in series between the amp itself and the headphone jack. So one asks, why and is there a downside.
 Most headphones cannot handle the enormous power levels that can come out of receivers/speaker amps. So to protect the headphones and not increase the cost of the product by incorporating a proper headphone amp, resistors are used to limit the power. The downside is that dynamic cans do not have a flat impedance curve. So a can that has an impedance peak in the bass will have a bass boost that one might think sounds good, but experienced ears will hear a less controlled bass due to the loss of damping resulting from that resistor. If you put those cans directly on the speaker taps and turn up the volume, you risk hurting your ears and smoking you cans. Orthodynamic cans like the HE-400's that you are getting tend to be resistive and have no such impedance curves and should not have issues with FR peaks or damping. Orthos tend to be less sensitive so many people will put them directly onto the speaker taps of a lower power amp like an Emotiva Mini. A Can like an HE-6 can take a lot of power, much more than the HE-400. I'd be very careful of putting any cans directly on the speaker taps of something that can deliver as much power as the Onkyo. You would have to learn about figuring out the proper L-PAD or T-PAD as appropriate to use with the exact combination of Amp and Cans. I have a pair of HE-500's hanging of my Vali and it works well, although not earsplitting loud, I believe your HE-400's will be more sensitive, hence louder.
  
 Edit: I see more info was added to this thread as I was typing up this post.
  
 Edit more: I just looked up the impedance curve for those cans and they are not too extreme. Still a simple series resistor is not the best approach and the value in the amp may not provide enough attenuation for a 250 Ohm can, so be careful with that volume knob. YMMV.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880250ohm.pdf


----------



## cakebreaker

stand said:


> Be careful about using a receiver. One thing is that they usually do not have a separate amp for the headphone jack but instead have resistors in series between the amp itself and the headphone jack. So one asks, why and is there a downside.
> Most headphones cannot handle the enormous power levels that can come out of receivers/speaker amps. So to protect the headphones and not increase the cost of the product by incorporating a proper headphone amp, resistors are used to limit the power. The downside is that dynamic cans do not have a flat impedance curve. So a can that has an impedance peak in the bass will have a bass boost that one might think sounds good, but experienced ears will hear a less controlled bass due to the loss of damping resulting from that resistor. If you put those cans directly on the speaker taps and turn up the volume, you risk hurting your ears and smoking you cans. Orthodynamic cans like the HE-400's that you are getting tend to be resistive and have no such impedance curves and should not have issues with FR peaks or damping. Orthos tend to be less sensitive so many people will put them directly onto the speaker taps of a lower power amp like an Emotiva Mini. A Can like an HE-6 can take a lot of power, much more than the HE-400. I'd be very careful of putting any cans directly on the speaker taps of something that can deliver as much power as the Onkyo. You would have to learn about figuring out the proper L-PAD or T-PAD as appropriate to use with the exact combination of Amp and Cans. I have a pair of HE-500's hanging of my Vali and it works well, although not earsplitting loud, I believe your HE-400's will be more sensitive, hence louder.
> Edit: I see more info was added to this thread as I was typing up this post.


 
 Good post. Very helpful. Sounds like I'm going to need to stick with Vali after all that hype of mine


----------



## StanD

cakebreaker said:


> Good post. Very helpful. Sounds like I'm going to need to stick with Vali after all that hype of mine


 
 One just needs to know what they're getting into as not to hurt ears or cans. Heck, you just bought an amp dedicated to driving cans. With the right information and twiddling it is possible to use a receiver with cans, but as we know you just bought a nice solution with the Vali. It's time for me to get a listening in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 before it's time to turn in.


----------



## Khragon

Anyone here experience a case where the vali started to ring w/o touching it? I have to unplug and re-plug in the headphone to get it to go away.


----------



## CJs06

khragon said:


> Anyone here experience a case where the vali started to ring w/o touching it? I have to unplug and re-plug in the headphone to get it to go away.


 
 Yes, its very normal I think for the Vali to ring without touching it. For example: Put your headphones on whilst connected to the Vali and place your head near the amp. Talk from a normal tone all the way to yelling towards the amp. It will start ringing depending on how loud your voice is. This is micro-phonics from the tubes, completely normal.


----------



## Khragon

Really.. I have to do couple tests, maybe open it up to check if the tube is down and push it down.  Hopefully that would reduce the ringing.  If not I may have to send it back to Schiit, look like the newer releases have much less ringing according to the recent posts.  The price you pay for being early adopter .


----------



## kiromn

Hi Guys,
 According to micro-phonics issue you can do a simple mod.
 Take some silicone tubing (like the ones used in medical stuff), cut the tubing in sizes of the vali tubes then cut them in length, so you can wrap them around the tubes.
 Voila, no more ringing


----------



## CJs06

The tubes will always be microphonic and will always ring regardless what you do to them LOL Some tubes ring more than others, just the way it is.


----------



## phillyd

I emailed Schiit to see if they'd do a microphonics dampening kit. Curious to see their response.


----------



## x838nwy

phillyd said:


> I emailed Schiit to see if they'd do a microphonics dampening kit. Curious to see their response.




Don't hold your breath.


----------



## zilch0md

kiromn said:


> Hi Guys,
> According to micro-phonics issue you can do a simple mod.
> Take some silicone tubing (like the ones used in medical stuff), cut the tubing in sizes of the vali tubes then cut them in length, so you can wrap them around the tubes.
> Voila, no more ringing


 
  
 Going on my experience using Blu-Tack....
  

  
 ... I like your idea of using silicon tubing, as it's a much cleaner way to add some mass to the tubes that might dampen the movement of the glass.
  
 But... My Blu-Tack has only reduced the duration of ringing for any given stimulus - significantly - but it has not eliminated the ringing.
  
 Problem:  The elements inside the glass tubes can still vibrate, no matter what you do to dampen the movement of the glass.


----------



## genclaymore

Maybe in future versions schiit can add something around the tubes that will keep them from moving, instead of users doing that them self. Maybe like a plastic clip that re-moveable that keeps the tube from moving during use. Unless they change the whole tube layout to the tubes that stand straight up.  I do have interested in the vali but not if I have to manually find a way to make the ringer stop.


----------



## kiromn

For my setup (Oatley tube hybrid amp) tubing mod has solved the ringing issue completely, so just give it a try and lets see if it will fix Vali issues.
 I have ordered Vali for myself and when i have it and mod it, i will give some feedback.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

didn't that use a different tube though? 6418? When I last used 6418s and 6111s I had no real microphonics issues as opposed to the vave here despite both being sub minatures also. I just used gromets to hold the tubes.


----------



## Makiah S

genclaymore said:


> Maybe in future versions schiit can add something around the tubes that will keep them from moving, instead of users doing that them self. Maybe like a plastic clip that re-moveable that keeps the tube from moving during use. Unless they change the whole tube layout to the tubes that stand straight up.  I do have interested in the vali but not if I have to manually find a way to make the ringer stop.


 
 there is no solution to completly remove the ringing, the inside of the tube rings, you can eliminate maybe 90% of the reponse to external vibrations in the internals but there's still a chance it's going to ring
  
 and again theres cost yea they could use a quieter tube but at what cost, Jason explained they did the best they could with the design... and again for $120 is sounds wonderful! and tubes should be allowed to warm up before you listen to them, so i usually turn the amp on, plug in my cans then go get a glass of water or something, by the time i'm back 4-5 mins the ringing has stopped [my vali takes about 30 or seconds to stop] and the tubes are some what warm. 
  
 Granted it's not ideal but, for the price... you can't expect perfection, and for the price... it sounds SUPER. So :3 I'm happy with it 
  
 also good post on using stero taps with headphones, the Vali should drive the HE 400 nciely


----------



## sebizbir

I'm really in intersection point between Vali and LD mk II.
+ Vali is build quality and wide ohms accepting range of hphones, US made
+ LD mk II is preamp mode, tube swapping.

price is the same so please help choosing for Grado SR60i


----------



## Tequilasunriser

genclaymore said:


> Maybe in future versions schiit can add something around the tubes that will keep them from moving, instead of users doing that them self. Maybe like a plastic clip that re-moveable that keeps the tube from moving during use. Unless they change the whole tube layout to the tubes that stand straight up.  I do have interested in the vali but not if I have to manually find a way to make the ringer stop.




You could pour resin inside of Vali and fill every crevice and solidify the entire inside and it will still ring. It's the filament INSIDE of the tube that's ringing and it will always cause ringing no matter how much you damp the outside. You might cut down on the ringing but you will NEVER eliminate it unless you somehow find a way to access the inside of the tube, stabilize the filaments, and vacuum seal it again. It is what it is.


----------



## StanD

I'm not so sure if covering too much surface of the tube is such a good idea. It is possible that this might interfere with the tube's ability to dissipate excess heat and may either shorten the tube's life or compromise its performance. Perhaps this is something to investigate rather than just roll the dice and see what happens. At least these tubes are not expensive, however, they are not on sockets and if one cannot solder it'll require a round trip to the land of Schiit or a visit to a local repair shop.


----------



## StanD

sebizbir said:


> I'm really in intersection point between Vali and LD mk II.
> + Vali is build quality and wide ohms accepting range of hphones, US made
> + LD mk II is preamp mode, tube swapping.
> 
> price is the same so please help choosing for Grado SR60i


 
 If your cans are of low impedance and need some power thie MKII can only deliver 100 mW at 32 Ohms and the Vali can kick out 650 mW at 32 Ohms. You might want to take look into the LIttle Dot I which is a hybrid and can deliver 800 mW at 32 Ohms..
 .......I just looked up the sensitivity of the Grados and they can deliver 98 db at 1 mW which is 116 db at 64 mW or 119 db at 128 mW, so you should be fine. If you decide on some orthos, e.g., HE-500s or like,  and got the MKII then you'll be out of luck. Something to keep in mind.


----------



## AladdinSane

Really, more microphonics talk? Perhaps it's time for a new thread.
  
There is page after page discussing this and it has been explained, summarized and beat to death. There is no solution nor is there likely to be. Schiit has stated there will always be some microphonics and that those microphonics are internal to the tube. Early units MAY have had more ringing than later units. Basically luck of the draw. Nothing you do externally will significantly reduce what your get in your unit with the exception of pressing your tubes back on the adhesive IF they have pulled away (read the thread for how to). You have to open the unit to do so and it will not effect the warranty per Schiit. Schiit began bending the lead wires to help alleviate the tubes detaching some time ago and it seems to have helped. In my #629 unit the ringing subsides in < 30 seconds and I have not done a thing to it. Not an issue as I suspect is the experience of the vast majority.
  
So, how 'bout that Vali,? Sounds great with my HD600s. Not as much with my Grado PS500s but I haven't given them a fair shake as I'm have a hard time taking the SENNs off my head lately.


----------



## Makiah S

stand said:


> If your cans are of low impedance and need some power thie MKII can only deliver 100 mW at 32 Ohms and the Vali can kick out 650 mW at 32 Ohms. You might want to take look into the LIttle Dot I which is a hybrid and can deliver 800 mW at 32 Ohms..
> .......I just looked up the sensitivity of the Grados and they can deliver 98 db at 1 mW which is 116 db at 64 mW or 119 db at 128 mW, so you should be fine. If you decide on some orthos, e.g., HE-500s or like,  and got the MKII then you'll be out of luck. Something to keep in mind.




Good point. Ive seen the Ld iii used on head fi for around 160 or so n thats with shipping. my Vali was 140 shipped


----------



## phillyd

This thread is about the Vali. Microphonics related to the tubes being mounted the way they are, and the casing are issues. If it's about the Vali, it belongs here.


----------



## CJs06

tequilasunriser said:


> You could pour resin inside of Vali and fill every crevice and solidify the entire inside and it will still ring. It's the filament INSIDE of the tube that's ringing and it will always cause ringing no matter how much you damp the outside. You might cut down on the ringing but you will NEVER eliminate it unless you somehow find a way to access the inside of the tube, stabilize the filaments, and vacuum seal it again. It is what it is.



Thank you. I've been saying this over and over. I'm not sure why the Vali's microphonics keeps being revisted and misunderstood over and over.


----------



## New Yorker

I'm also weary of the lengthy discussions of tube microphonics in the Vali. Honestly people, it's a little quirk; nothing more. I would much prefer a discussion about how the Vali sounds with various headphones, and versus other Schiit amps. One would think _that_ would be the meat of this thread but sadly, as so often happens on forums – where any and all can say whatever they want as often as they want – no. Sigh… I wasted far less time when there was such a thing as editors and gatekeepers.


----------



## Tuco1965

Why doesn't someone start a new Vali thread with microphonics off the discussion table?   Otherwise the issue will just keep coming back in this one.  Just a suggestion.


----------



## BournePerfect

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz x99999999999999999999999999
  
 -Daniel


----------



## squidwid

OK, I'll chime in and give my two cents about the Vali's sound. First some background...
I just parted out most of my semi-high-buck 2.2 channel speaker system and went to
headphone listening full-time. I've had a pair of HD590's for 8-9 years, but used them sparingly until a couple months ago when I started listening to them when my wife and kids grew tired of hearing loud music when doing homework, watching TV, pretty much all the time. So I found a package deal from Craigslist that included a pair of HD600's and a Vali. I just ordered an Uber Bifrost, but for now I'm using a Peachtree Nova as my DAC along with a Mac mini, iUSB and a V-Link 192. The Vali and HD600 combo just makes me smile. I love when music takes me to another place, and this does it every time for me. That's something my speaker system only did a couple times in 2 years. Maybe the best part, is that I'll just sit and listen to an entire album without wanting to skip tracks or check my Facebook/Twitter/E-Mail. I originally wanted to get a Bottlehead Crack, and I still probably will, but I'm I absolutely no rush with an inexpensive amp that sounds this good.


----------



## CJs06

I've never tried any of the Sennheiser headphones. It seems the Vali has good synergy and is a great pairing with some of their headphones. I'll be curious to try them sometime hopefully.


----------



## thegunner100

squidwid said:


> OK, I'll chime in and give my two cents about the Vali's sound. First some background...
> I just parted out most of my semi-high-buck 2.2 channel speaker system and went to
> headphone listening full-time. I've had a pair of HD590's for 8-9 years, but used them sparingly until a couple months ago when I started listening to them when my wife and kids grew tired of hearing loud music when doing homework, watching TV, pretty much all the time. So I found a package deal from Craigslist that included a pair of HD600's and a Vali. I just ordered an Uber Bifrost, but for now I'm using a Peachtree Nova as my DAC along with a Mac mini, iUSB and a V-Link 192. The Vali and HD600 combo just makes me smile. I love when music takes me to another place, and this does it every time for me. That's something my speaker system only did a couple times in 2 years. Maybe the best part, is that I'll just sit and listen to an entire album without wanting to skip tracks or check my Facebook/Twitter/E-Mail. I originally wanted to get a Bottlehead Crack, and I still probably will, but I'm I absolutely no rush with an inexpensive amp that sounds this good.


 

 But... does it ring?


----------



## squidwid

Sure, it rings for 20 seconds or so after it gets bumped, but it doesn't bother me.
I listen for an hour at a time without touching anything except my iPad.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> I've never tried any of the Sennheiser headphones. It seems the Vali has good synergy and is a great pairing with some of their headphones. I'll be curious to try them sometime hopefully.


 
 I can vouch for the Vali's excellence with an HD600, Last night, I must have spent 3 hours attached to the combination. The bass was rather good. In fact everything was rather good. I posted earlier that the Over Ear Momentums sounded good but are more sensitive and you can hear a drop of noise in the background. I have a pair of HD558's around here, I'll get around to trying them some other time but I suspect that the noise will be there as well since they are sensitive and don't need amping with decent smartphone or DAP. Tonight the HE-500 comes back into the rotation.


----------



## StanD

squidwid said:


> Sure, it rings for 20 seconds or so after it gets bumped, but it doesn't bother me.
> I listen for an hour at a time without touching anything except my iPad.


 
 I'm sure that you can adjust the volume knob without any ringing, even touch the case, That's how it plays out for me.
 Doesn't the Vali drive those HD600, pretty loud? Or as Jimi Hendrix once sang, "I have a hummingbird that hums so loud, you think you were losing your mind."


----------



## olor1n

thegunner100 said:


> squidwid said:
> 
> 
> > OK, I'll chime in and give my two cents about the Vali's sound. First some background...
> ...


 
  
 Can anyone suggest a mod? Surely there's a quantum physicist here who can devise a stasis field. A Head-Fier may need to initially lobby for the planet's nations to unify and fund such a scientific endeavour. Should be a simple task though. You just need to remind world leaders of the Vali's $119 price tag and the trillions required to harness black holes will seem like church change. See if these whiny tubes squeal in the absence of space-time.


----------



## StanD

olor1n said:


> Can anyone suggest a mod? Surely there's a quantum physicist here who can devise a stasis field. A Head-Fier may need to initially lobby for the planet's nations to unify and fund such a scientific endeavour. Should be a simple task though. You just need to remind world leaders of the Vali's $119 price tag and the trillions required to harness black holes will seem like church change. See if these whiny tubes squeal in the absence of space-time.


 
 Perhaps Ensor's creation Orac can do it. Blake's 7


----------



## AladdinSane

I just turn my Vali on 72 hours prior to playing, have volume preset, headphones plugged in, walk softly and wear plushy slippers so as not to disturb the tubes. Often I hold my breath but this is not ideal for listening to more than really short Ramones tracks (which is like every Ramones track). Eventually I shall tire of The Ramones then what? Yes, this is sarcasm.


----------



## olor1n

What about selective hearing loss? Find the frequency of the Vali's ringing and then purge the corresponding tone from our aural perception. It'd be worth it for this $119 amp.


----------



## BydoEmpire

I've had the Vali for a few weeks now and agree that it pairs well with HD600s. Best way I can describe the sound from the Vali is smooth and consistent. Kind of like it takes the peaks and valleys of a song and smooths it all out to be at a consistent level, if that makes any sense . As far as microphonics go I only get ringing when first powering on my Vali (about 30sec).


----------



## zilch0md

Here's a post that doesn't mention...   (you know what...)
  
 Nope, this post is about how awesome my Beyerdynamic DT1350 "Facelift" sounds with the Vali!  I've had the Vali for about a week now, but only just thought to try it with my DT1350, and I've never heard better from the DT1350.  The Vali sort of pushes the DT1350 in the direction of the Amperior.
  
 I'm so enchanted by this pairing, I'm thinking I like it better than the Vali > HD800.   
  
 If you've got 'em, try 'em.
  
 Mike


----------



## Xyzygy




----------



## Katun

So far, I've tried the Mad Dogs, HD600, Q701, and PX100-II out of the Vali.
  
 The PX100-II was easily my favorite pairing.


----------



## squidwid

stand said:


> I'm sure that you can adjust the volume knob without any ringing, even touch the case, That's how it plays out for me.
> Doesn't the Vali drive those HD600, pretty loud? Or as Jimi Hendrix once sang, "I have a hummingbird that hums so loud, you think you were losing your mind." :basshead:



9:00 on the volume knob is pretty loud. I usually listen at 8:00 or so.


----------



## CJs06

Right around 0830 on the volune knob, for me is loud enough.


----------



## zilch0md

xyzygy said:


>


 
  
 Excellent!  But the groom must have big hands!


----------



## Makiah S

aladdinsane said:


> I just turn my Vali on 72 hours prior to playing, have volume preset, headphones plugged in, walk softly and wear plushy slippers so as not to disturb the tubes. Often I hold my breath but this is not ideal for listening to more than really short Ramones tracks (which is like every Ramones track). Eventually I shall tire of The Ramones then what? Yes, this is sarcasm.


 
 yea for you maybe, you wanna see my Vali Slippers, or the building apartus I've made for listening to my Vali


----------



## mangler

xyzygy said:


>




Lord of the Rings!!!!

Ahhhhahaha! Clever


----------



## bigbenrfan99

xyzygy said:


>


 
 It finally happened...someone loved the sound of the Vali enough to propose to it.  Did it say yes?


----------



## swannie007

zilch0md said:


> Here's a post that doesn't mention...   (you know what...)
> 
> Nope, this post is about how awesome my Beyerdynamic DT1350 "Facelift" sounds with the Vali!  I've had the Vali for about a week now, but only just thought to try it with my DT1350, and I've never heard better from the DT1350.  The Vali sort of pushes the DT1350 in the direction of the Amperior.
> 
> ...


 
 I am listening to this pairing as I type this and must say it is lovely, in fact, I think I prefer it to the Vali-HD-650 pairing. Thanks for posting about this combo, I would never have thought of it and am enjoying it very much. That's synergy for you. I also love my Q701's with the Vali as well. Different sound but very enjoyable as well, particularly with stringed instruments and acoustic music. Love my Vali, such a great little amp!


----------



## zilch0md

Oh good! I'm glad I'm not alone in my appreciation of the Vali > DT1350 pairing.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I'm sure that you can adjust the volume knob without any ringing, even touch the case, That's how it plays out for me.
> Doesn't the Vali drive those HD600, pretty loud? Or as Jimi Hendrix once sang, "I have a hummingbird that hums so loud, you think you were losing your mind."


 
  
  


squidwid said:


> 9:00 on the volume knob is pretty loud. I usually listen at 8:00 or so.


 
 I'm afraid my hummingbird hums so loud that it's is turned up to 12:00   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Do you have your source turned up all the way?


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> Right around 0830 on the volune knob, for me is loud enough.


 
 What's that, I can't hear you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Actually I forget which can's you are pairing with. Are they very sensitive and can you hear some background noise when the music is low or stopped?


----------



## squidwid

Using Audirvana on my Mac mini, I chose the software volume to be disabled, so I'm not sure if that defaults it to 100% volume or what.
Maybe my DAC has a high output voltage...if that would make a difference?


----------



## StanD

squidwid said:


> Using Audirvana on my Mac mini, I chose the software volume to be disabled, so I'm not sure if that defaults it to 100% volume or what.
> Maybe my DAC has a high output voltage...if that would make a difference?


 
 What comes out of your source goes into your amp an affects the volume coming out and is part of what determines where you set the volume knob.


----------



## oopeteroo

how good is the vali with the hd598? how will the sound change compare to original sound ?
anyone tried modi+vali for hd598?


----------



## K.T.

katun said:


> So far, I've tried the Mad Dogs, HD600, Q701, and PX100-II out of the Vali.
> 
> The PX100-II was easily my favorite pairing.




!!!!... No kidding? I would have never have thought to try it, what with all of the higher-end cans lying around.

I'll try it tonight after my session with the HD598, which sounds marvelous on the Vali.


----------



## Katun

k.t. said:


> !!!!... No kidding? I would have never have thought to try it, what with all of the higher-end cans lying around.
> 
> I'll try it tonight after my session with the HD598, which sounds marvelous on the Vali.


 
  
 Let me know! I'm curious to what others think.
  
 It's a bit sensitive, but its nothing too bad once the music starts playing.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> What's that, I can't hear you?
> Actually I forget which can's you are pairing with. Are they very sensitive and can you hear some background noise when the music is low or stopped?



I'm using Philips X1s and I think they are pretty sensitive cans but I don't hear the noise floor at all even if I crank the volume up all the way.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> I'm using Philips X1s and I think they are pretty sensitive cans but I don't hear the noise floor at all even if I crank the volume up all the way.


 
 The noise floor probably doesn't change with the volume control in this amp. When I put on sensitive cans I was able to hear it the same regardless of the control's position.


----------



## RedBull

cjs06 said:


> I'm using Philips X1s and I think they are pretty sensitive cans but I don't hear the noise floor at all even if I crank the volume up all the way.




Can I buy yours?


----------



## CJs06

redbull said:


> Can I buy yours?



lol mabey! If I buy a Schiit Lyr at some point  i Honestly don't know why the Philips X1s are so sensitive yet I can't hear the noise floor. I guess its because its efficient cans?


----------



## RedBull

Does yours ring at all? or completely silent.
Frankly, I am very intrigued with the sound, I think I will like it, but that ring rather ummm ... I am not in US, so shipping back and forth need a little more effort and costs.


----------



## sebizbir

Does anyone have Vali for sale in EU?


----------



## prsut

RedBull:
  
 I have Vali (serial number 761 or so) two days so only basic listening experience (Nina Simone, Diana Krall, Return To Forever blu-ray, Led Zeppelin Presence CD, Jeff Beck Performing Live at Ronnie blu-ray). Paired with Denon d2000 (modded, recabled). Plugged mogami (with neutrik plugs) 3m extension cable, switched ON, wait few minutes for working temperature.
  
 There is no ringing at all. I have volume at 10 to 11 clock pos. and using variable output from oppo103, but also tried volume knob on Vali - very gentle and normal rotating of knob while oppo is paused (input is muted) - no ringing at all on any level.
 Since I wanted to know what actualy ringing is I gently tap Vali - only almost unlistenable tiing, then knocking with nail - ringing is here but disappears at about 30 seconds. As I am sitting 3m from Vali, under normal conditions ringing is nothing I am afraid of. No problem here. Not to mention , my 4 years old son is constantly jumping around me on floor and disturbing my schiit, my schiit is under TV, my schiit is near oppo103 - no ringing here.
 If it does matter, I have used three from four supplied rubber legs (formed onto triangle) so bigger mass is applied to each and vibrations are dampened better.
 And sound ? Phenomenal.


----------



## RedBull

Sound good. When did you get your Vali? 
Since you mentioned you can barely hear because you sit 3 m distance from Vali, does it mean that the ringing is external ringing, means not through your headphone drivers? means, not your headphone making this sound?


----------



## prsut

I Got my Vali 01/13-th.

 I am sitting 3m from Vali with HP over ears  There is no buzz or hiss coming from amp surface or from amp's guts. So ringing comes from HP drivers.


----------



## Makiah S

stand said:


> The noise floor probably doesn't change with the volume control in this amp. When I put on sensitive cans I was able to hear it the same regardless of the control's position.


 
 me 2


----------



## phillyd

Just bought a Vali+Modi for my Beyer DT770 Pro's. Excited


----------



## rreifsn

Hey all, another update on the Vali.  Originally I had a series of postings concerning microphonics issues I had with an early issue amp (#126).  I returned it to Schiit and got a great, no noise replacement (#634).  The new amp sounded and performed great. 
  
 The reason I'm posting is I just passed on my Vali to my son in college and I'm back to using my old Asgard 1.  It's a big difference.  Switching over to the Asgard eliminated a lot of the "life" from the music and while it renders everything perfectly it sounds flat.  I'm using he-400s with Jerg pads.  I can't complain about the sound with the Asgard.  It drives my He-400s crazy coupled with an uber Bifrost but I may need to get another Vali or a Lyr.  Once you've heard tubes you can't go back.  I'm sure I will be used to the Asgard after a couple days listening which isn't good.  I need to remember the sound difference while it is still fresh in my mind.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

rreifsn said:


> Hey all, another update on the Vali.  Originally I had a series of postings concerning microphonics issues I had with an early issue amp (#126).  I returned it to Schiit and got a great, no noise replacement (#634).  The new amp sounded and performed great.
> 
> The reason I'm posting is I just passed on my Vali to my son in college and I'm back to using my old Asgard 1.  It's a big difference.  Switching over to the Asgard eliminated a lot of the "life" from the music and while it renders everything perfectly it sounds flat.  I'm using he-400s with Jerg pads.  I can't complain about the sound with the Asgard.  It drives my He-400s crazy coupled with an uber Bifrost but I may need to get another Vali or a Lyr.  Once you've heard tubes you can't go back.  I'm sure I will be used to the Asgard after a couple days listening which isn't good.  I need to remember the sound difference while it is still fresh in my mind.


 

 There are also other great choices for tubes. I'm looking to possibly get a Lyr or Project Ember  in the future to drive my HE4s. I'm leaning more towards the latter just because of all the great reviews, sound customizations, and it's cheaper price tag.


----------



## Rem0o

For everyone fearing/experiencing the ring problem, I have finally found a solution!


----------



## tehsprayer

Question for Vali owners:
  
 Is the Vali better than the Magni and the O2 amp? I know I am comparing with solid state amps but this is for the DT 990 and maybe future HE-400 or HD 650. Is the microphonic as bad as the website says and a big deal? Like will I hear it when I talk or move my head? Or will I only hear a ring when I turn on the amp to warm up and plugging in the headphones only?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

rem0o said:


> For everyone fearing/experiencing the ring problem, I have finally found a solution!


 
 All for the low cost of $995.


----------



## tehsprayer

soundsgoodtome said:


> All for the low cost of $995.


 
 Found this on their website:
*“One could hear the air surrounding the instruments and singers more clearly with the Tranquility Base”*

*“Bass was also enhanced with the Tranquility Base. It seemed to be more powerful, dynamic, and better controlled”*

*“The Tranquility Base performed its magic without hardening or brightening the sound”*

*Synergistic Research Tranquility BASE conditioning a wireless router*

*“One other quality of the Tranquility Base is its acoustic isolation properties…* *the Base is actually two products combined”*

 

*Such a gimmick!*


----------



## zilch0md

tehsprayer said:


> Found this on their website:
> 
> 
> *…* *the Base is actually two products combined”*


 
  
 2 x 0 = 0


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I want the science behind it. Someone with an electrical engineering background to put that under a microscope.I don't want to ridicule it because I don't know how it works or any explanation but it does seem to bank on gullibility.


----------



## K.T.

rem0o said:


> For everyone fearing/experiencing the ring problem, I have finally found a solution!




I remember when people first started using these for audio. Not sure about this one, but the original platforms were actually made for the scientific fields, for removing the tiniest vibrations from electron microscopes (which would be placed on top of the platforms). So the science behind these platforms is sound. No gimmick.

As for the value proposition, probably not in the realm of reality for most folks.

IIRC, the original microscope platforms, as reviewed by Stereophile, cost several thousand dollars. Again, they were designed for medical and scientific applications, where labs and institutions could justify the price.


----------



## AladdinSane

I use an old mouse pad. Will sell for $395.


----------



## StanD

I think LSD will have a greater affect on what you hear than this tranquility pad. I recommend neither.
 I'm sure that *Rem0o* was fool'in.


----------



## eastpac

tehsprayer said:


> Question for Vali owners:
> 
> Is the Vali better than the Magni and the O2 amp? I know I am comparing with solid state amps but this is for the DT 990 and maybe future HE-400 or HD 650. Is the microphonic as bad as the website says and a big deal? Like will I hear it when I talk or move my head? Or will I only hear a ring when I turn on the amp to warm up and plugging in the headphones only?


 
  
 I was thinking to get this amp for the DT990 pro as well, lots of people have said it pairs well with it but they don't really describe why. Is it because using the Vali brings out more of the mids as it sounds a bit warmer? 
  
 As for the Magni/O2, I think they are more versatile than these. 
  
 Would appreciate feedback from those who have used it with DT990's


----------



## Makiah S

tehsprayer said:


> Found this on their website:
> *“One could hear the air surrounding the instruments and singers more clearly with the Tranquility Base”*
> 
> *“Bass was also enhanced with the Tranquility Base. It seemed to be more powerful, dynamic, and better controlled”*
> ...


 
 PFF that's no gimmick man! That's the sound of $995 of pure grade Expectional Bias xD


----------



## x838nwy

mshenay said:


> PFF that's no gimmick man! That's the sound of $995 of pure grade Expectional Bias xD




You can always do a 30 day trial with someone like the cable company and see if it really works. If I'm in the us I'd do it in a heartbeat.

If (and it's a big if) it works, it's a pretty good upgrade as it will work with any gear you put on it. Depending on the price of your kit this may well be worthwhile. (Goes for most platforms.) Plus if it doesn't then you can let us all know.


----------



## CJs06

I'm pretty sure, if it worked at all, your return on investment would be less than .01%


----------



## kvtaco17

The real question... Will the tranquility base fix a Xbox rrod?


----------



## Makiah S

cjs06 said:


> I'm pretty sure, if it worked at all, your return on investment would be less than .01%


 
 yup


----------



## x838nwy

cjs06 said:


> I'm pretty sure, if it worked at all, your return on investment would be less than .01%




Umm no. Not really.

First of all, how do you define 'return on investment'? It cannot make you profits but neither can any audio equipment. So what is this 'return' you're talking about?

As I said IF it works and can improve on your existing equipment, then that's pretty good because:

a.) You can keep your current gear with all its functionalities - no need to decide between sq and inputs for example.

b.) You can put all your stuff on 'normal' furniture as it claoms to replace audio equipment racks.

c.) You can keep the base and its abilities regardless of how many times you upgrade.

Now I did mention that it depends on how much your stuff costs in the first place. Mainly because if you own a $5k dac or anything totl, it's quite hard to upgrade as you're getting to a point where personal preferences matter quite a lot more - there's so little in absolute quality between totl sota gear I find. So an ability to improve things without getting a differemt signature is probably quite welcome. If the base does that then it's a plus.

Also if you own a $5k amp then upgrading to another amp is going to cost you probably >>$1k as you're not likely to get more than 70% when you sell the old one plus you'll have to spend on a new amp which probably cost more than $5k. In this case, the base is a viable alternative.

Look, I'm not trying to say it works wonders or that eveyone should buy one. All I'm saying is that a.) I do not feel we should redicule something if we haven't tried it and b.) What may seem unviable to you may not be so silly for others.

Yes I agree that what appears to be a glorified slab for putting your stuff on shouldn't cost more than $20-50 at most. Yes I admit that I am not entirely clear as to how it might work or achieve the alleged capabilities. But then I don't clearly know why a mundorf capacitor is better than a panasonic but that doesn't mean it's bs. As for this base, I'd say it's not certain to do what its maker claims, but I'd love to find out for sure.


----------



## Makiah S

:[ sad;y guys something's come up and I need to sell my Vali! So there's one in the FS for the time being!
  
 I will say this though, I like the Vali... a lot! So much I might buy it again ... in the next month or so kind of again!


----------



## CJs06

x838nwy said:


> Umm no. Not really.
> 
> First of all, how do you define 'return on investment'? It cannot make you profits but neither can any audio equipment. So what is this 'return' you're talking about?
> 
> ...



The "return" is a subjective and relative matter based on personal preference.

You made alot of words assuming I was showing indifference and ridicule, when I was actually simply stating my opinion. 

Too many people it seems get their panties in a wad over nothing.


----------



## Belenga

> I have Vali (serial number 761 or so) two days so only basic listening experience (Nina Simone, Diana Krall, Return To Forever blu-ray, Led Zeppelin Presence CD, Jeff Beck Performing Live at Ronnie blu-ray). *Paired with Denon d2000* (modded, recabled). Plugged mogami (with neutrik plugs) 3m extension cable, switched ON, wait few minutes for working temperature.


 
  
 Dear prsut, could you please say something about the (possibly high) noise floor when pairing the Vali with the Denon headphones? There were very few comments about this in the thread, some positive and others negative...
  
 Thanks!


----------



## x838nwy

cjs06 said:


> The "return" is a subjective and relative matter based on personal preference.
> 
> You made alot of words assuming I was showing indifference and ridicule, when I was actually simply stating my opinion.
> 
> Too many people it seems get their panties in a wad over nothing.




Well, when you mentioned the 'return' being less than 0.01% I had no idea you were not trying to ridicule - perhaps it was a calculated figure? (I certainly don't recall thinking it was indifference.)

If you were stating your opinion, I was mine as I made clear. You feel it could offer no return and I feel we should not jump to conclusions. I felt I needed to use more words as it is always simpler to dismiss than to properly consider. I don't think panties were involved. Mine weren't.


----------



## prsut

Belenga:
 After first run there was audible hum with noise from 10 clock position of volume knob. So I plug power adapter (two poles EU adapter) rotated 180deg . It is kind of alchemy, but it reduces hum a lot. Next I changed interconnects cable to XLO Pro 150. Previous cables (do not remember type - it does not matter) were electrostatic shielded, i.e. shielding soldiered only on source side. XLO PRO 150 have shielding soldiered on both sides. It helped too.  
 Result : noise is listenable from 12 clock position and IS volume related. Higher volume = higher noise. As I use volume knob at 11 clock position fixed (regulating volume with oppo 103) there is bit of noise - if you want to hear. If you have Yes - Close To The Edge or Pink Floyd DSOTM CD, noise FROM CD is higher from CD as from Vali. Compared with Graham Slee Novo , which is totally silent, noise from CD is bigger through Novo then noise from muted Vali.
  
 Once music is playing it is no issue. I listened Shirley Horn or Roger Waters - Amused To Death. What is interesting, listening Vali (my very first tube component) does not force me to find the noise. And definitelly this is more analog sound I remember from my phono and playing LP. For example I have complete Led Zeppelin LP set and on CD too. I did not listen CDs more than 6 years as compared to original LP (mainly Presence album) was unlistenable from CD. Flat and without life. Now I will play my CD collection with pleasure. 
  
 Because Denons are 25 Ohms I was very nervous about hiss, but believe me no issue for me. Last time I heard detonation from 6-th track of Amused To Death (s-it - into - pants detonation, indeed) was from my 4 bridged NAD204 through Boston Acoustics VR30 + Mordaunt Short SUB. Vali did it too without distortion. Also played last track from XLO Test And Burn-in CD - this is track you should play very silent first as it is biggest challenge for any audio system. Vali passed this too.


----------



## Makiah S

belenga said:


> Dear prsut, could you please say something about the (possibly high) noise floor when pairing the Vali with the Denon headphones? There were very few comments about this in the thread, some positive and others negative...
> 
> Thanks!


 
 I'll commment on it, my d2k is in today, so give me an hour or two and I'll give a listen and let you know what I think :3


----------



## LogicAudio

today I gave Vali a listen. the sound to price ratio is stunning but they should conciser a remedy for that little tube microphonic. the instant I plugged in the phone a very annoying hi-freqquency noise was audible and lasted about 30 seconds as if someone slapped me in the ear or like beaming noise after an explosion.


----------



## Makiah S

logicaudio said:


> today I gave Vali a listen. the sound to price ratio is stunning but they should conciser a remedy for that little tube microphonic. the instant I plugged in the phone a very annoying hi-freqquency noise was audible and lasted about 30 seconds as if someone slapped me in the ear or like beaming noise after an explosion.


 
 yea it sounds good all but that rining... still worth it imo 
  
 also the Vali with the D2k sounds very nice, dat bass... like liquid Donkey's foot to your face
  
 also I'm hearing something new in this song I'm listening to :O coolio! 
  
 the Noise isn't noticable


----------



## BournePerfect

Hey brah-will the Vali ring w/ the headphones in my profile? Couldn't find any info on this after almost three thousand posts. Help a brutha out!!
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Would it make sense to plug in your headphone and let the sucker sit for a second? (everyone complaining about microphonics)

 Don't you want to warm the tubes before using the amp beforehand anyways? Or do hybrids not work in that sense?


----------



## Makiah S

soundsgoodtome said:


> Would it make sense to plug in your headphone and let the sucker sit for a second? (everyone complaining about microphonics)
> 
> Don't you want to warm the tubes before using the amp beforehand anyways? Or do hybrids not work in that sense?


 
 that's what I do any ways tbh


----------



## BenEnglish

soundsgoodtome said:


> Would it make sense to plug in your headphone and let the sucker sit for a second? (everyone complaining about microphonics)


 
 I have no problem with doing that.  I'll wait out the microphonics when I plug in, turn on, or accidentally bump the amp.
  
 But yesterday I made the mistake of bobbing my head to some music I was really enjoying.  Bobbing head = stiff headphone cable (stock HS300) in a loop knocking against itself = vibration transmitted back to the amp = a swell of ringing that cut through the song, temporarily ruining the music.  I had to wait out the ringing then decide to either start the song over or go on to the next thing on the playlist.  I chose to end the listening session in disgust.
  
 I've gotten audible ringing while listening to music when I sneezed in the direction of the amp.  No, I am not kidding.
  
 While composing this reply, wearing my phones with no sound coming through them, I leaned forward.  The headphone cable scraping across my forearm as I typed induced several seconds of clearly audible ringing.
  
 I love the sound and affordability of this amp.  I really do love it for those reasons.  But I feel sure I'll be upgrading sooner rather than later.


----------



## zilch0md

Here's another way to minimize the ringing problem when first turning on the Vali:
  
 Leave the Vali's power switch turned on. 
  
 Leave the headphones plugged in.
  
*Unplug the power supply from the AC outlet when you want to turn the Vali off.*
  
*Plug the power supply back into the AC outlet when you want to turn the Vali on,* and you'll be listening to music a lot more quickly, without having to wait for the ringing to stop.
  
 (You could also install an inline switch on the power cord or use a switched AC outlet, power strip, etc.)


----------



## M-13

zilch0md said:


> Here's another way to minimize the ringing problem when first turning on the Vali:
> 
> Leave the Vali's power switch turned on.
> 
> ...


 

 Power strip idea is pretty genius.


----------



## FlySweep




----------



## CJs06

Truer words were never spoken. On a different note... Am I the only one who will purposefully tap or yell at his/her Vali just to hear it ring? I'm not sure why I like doing that. I'm kinda crazy so that might have something todo with it.


----------



## CJs06

flysweep said:


>


 
  
 I raise you another!


----------



## lord_tris

logicaudio said:


> today I gave Vali a listen. the sound to price ratio is stunning but they should conciser a remedy for that little tube microphonic. the instant I plugged in the phone a very annoying hi-frequency noise was audible and lasted about 30 seconds as if someone slapped me in the ear or like beaming noise after an explosion.


 
 Yeah, its been mentioned like once in this thread....There is nothing that can be done to eliminate the tube Ringing, it is the tube its self. The Tubes filaments are ringing there is no amount of anything you can think of to fix it. Short of not using this tube or any of the tubes in this size category ie (Micro or pencil) tubes. Go back in the thread and follow some of the suggestions that are here, and skip anything that talks about the ringing cause well its been beat to death with a baseball bat,a horse,a semi-truck, and the titanic.


----------



## 00Dan

So after my short experience with my DT880/600 I was struck with a phantom hair causing a rattle which I could not find despite driver disassembly. So needless to say I have sent them back to the retailer. Anyway, on topic, before I go just getting a new DT880 are there any other cans in the same general price range which pair well with the vali?


----------



## tehsprayer

00dan said:


> So after my short experience with my DT880/600 I was struck with a phantom hair causing a rattle which I could not find despite driver disassembly. So needless to say I have sent them back to the retailer. Anyway, on topic, before I go just getting a new DT880 are there any other cans in the same general price range which pair well with the vali?


 
 If your budget allows I would strongly recommend the HE-400, if you want I may have a coupon from razordogaudio for them


----------



## 00Dan

tehsprayer said:


> If your budget allows I would strongly recommend the HE-400, if you want I may have a coupon from razordogaudio for them


 
 I'll look into them. Thanks for the coupon offer but it would have to be something I can purchase on amazon, as that is where I purchased the DT880 (Amazon giftcards were popular this past Christmas).


----------



## tehsprayer

00dan said:


> I'll look into them. Thanks for the coupon offer but it would have to be something I can purchase on amazon, as that is where I purchased the DT880 (Amazon giftcards were popular this past Christmas).


 
 Btw, is the ringing of the vali really that bad? Like not worth getting and get the o2 over it? Or is it just wait 5 mins or so to warm up and it's good to go without any type of ringing?


----------



## kvtaco17

tehsprayer said:


> Btw, is the ringing of the vali really that bad? Like not worth getting and get the o2 over it? Or is it just wait 5 mins or so to warm up and it's good to go without any type of ringing?


 
  
 http://bit.ly/1dA0O7G
  
 Contains all you need to know!


----------



## lord_tris

kvtaco17 said:


> http://bit.ly/1dA0O7G
> 
> Contains all you need to know!


 
  
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 YES!


----------



## CJs06

kvtaco17 said:


> http://bit.ly/1dA0O7G
> 
> Contains all you need to know!


 
 That was awesome hahaha


----------



## kvtaco17

lord_tris said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> YES!


 
  
  


cjs06 said:


> That was awesome hahaha


 
  
 Its not like we haven't been talking about microphonics in these amps for the last 180 or so pages...


----------



## 00Dan

tehsprayer said:


> Btw, is the ringing of the vali really that bad? Like not worth getting and get the o2 over it? Or is it just wait 5 mins or so to warm up and it's good to go without any type of ringing?


 
 In my experience it's really not that bad at all. A bit high pitched immediately after turning it on or plugging something in, but in mine at least, it subsides within 20-30 seconds, even less in the case of just turning it on as there is a muting relay that is activated for the first 20 seconds from turning it on. For reference my vali is revision B #273.


----------



## 00Dan

While the HE-400 looks really good, it is just a bit outside my price range at this point in time. Another factor to consider is that however much I would love to have an open headphone, the room I do the majority of my listening to is shared with another person so sound leakage becomes a problem.


----------



## lord_tris

00dan said:


> While the HE-400 looks really good, it is just a bit outside my price range at this point in time. Another factor to consider is that however much I would love to have an open headphone, the room I do the majority of my listening to is shared with another person so sound leakage becomes a problem.


 
 Sound leakage on the He300 is minimal unless you are Cranking it where your ears bleed. the He500 on the other hand is really loud. I have heard both.


----------



## 00Dan

lord_tris said:


> Sound leakage on the He300 is minimal unless you are Cranking it where your ears bleed. the He500 on the other hand is really loud. I have heard both.


 
 Are HE-300 open or closed? Can't seem to find if they are or not. Part of the reason I got the DT880 in the first place was because of the semi-open design, as sound leakage wasn't terrible. As it is I'm still exploring my options even though another DT880 is most certainly not off the table.


----------



## x838nwy

bourneperfect said:


> Hey brah-will the Vali ring w/ the headphones in my profile? Couldn't find any info on this after almost three thousand posts. Help a brutha out!!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Schiit should add in an NFC bluetooth compatibility. That way, I can tap the Vali with my headphones like all the time.


----------



## kvtaco17

00dan said:


> Are HE-300 open or closed? Can't seem to find if they are or not. Part of the reason I got the DT880 in the first place was because of the semi-open design, as sound leakage wasn't terrible. As it is I'm still exploring my options even though another DT880 is most certainly not off the table.


 
 they are open I believe


----------



## lord_tris

00dan said:


> Are HE-300 open or closed? Can't seem to find if they are or not. Part of the reason I got the DT880 in the first place was because of the semi-open design, as sound leakage wasn't terrible. As it is I'm still exploring my options even though another DT880 is most certainly not off the table.


 
 They are open. But i would consider them more semi open. the sound leakage from them is about the same as the DT880. Sound wise the DT880 trounces the HE300, But the HE300 does sound very fun and will get your head moving pretty easily


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

00dan said:


> Are HE-300 open or closed? Can't seem to find if they are or not. Part of the reason I got the DT880 in the first place was because of the semi-open design, as sound leakage wasn't terrible. As it is I'm still exploring my options even though another DT880 is most certainly not off the table.


 

 They're open with a closed back driver so leakage is minimal. Fun phones, dark sounding. A little mod on the felt cover can bring out more treble if desired.


----------



## jaganeee

Will this tube glow on working.


----------



## Transformatron

My wife says my Koss Pro DJ100 leaks more than the HE-300. The HE-300 seems semi-open to me.


----------



## Mambosenior

transformatron said:


> My wife says my Koss Pro DJ100 leaks more than the HE-300.


 
 Some headphones need their diapers changed more often.
  
  
 (So, so, so sorry. It was the devil, I assure you.)


----------



## x838nwy

jaganeee said:


> Will this tube glow on working.


 
  
 Yes. Both of them. Which begs the questions - if a Vali is switched on in the woods and there's no one there to hear, do the tubed ring?
  
 Btw, I'm ordering one and will use the headphone plug/unplug ringing to practice my awesome ninja skills.


----------



## Transformatron

mambosenior said:


> Some headphones need their diapers changed more often.
> 
> 
> (So, so, so sorry. It was the devil, I assure you.)



-_-


----------



## LogicAudio

mshenay said:


> yea it sounds good all but that rining... still worth it imo
> 
> also the Vali with the D2k sounds very nice, dat bass... like liquid Donkey's foot to your face
> 
> ...


 
  
 for sure it is worthwhile despite that noise. interesting point is that I tested Vali side by side of a Lyr. I'm not telling Vali was a better-sounding gear but it provided a more silent background than Lyr
  


lord_tris said:


> Yeah, its been mentioned like once in this thread....There is nothing that can be done to eliminate the tube Ringing, it is the tube its self. The Tubes filaments are ringing there is no amount of anything you can think of to fix it. Short of not using this tube or any of the tubes in this size category ie (Micro or pencil) tubes. Go back in the thread and follow some of the suggestions that are here, and skip anything that talks about the ringing cause well its been beat to death with a baseball bat,a horse,a semi-truck, and the titanic.


 
  
 If I had a Vali (I don't) I would desolder that little tube of the PCB and put'em on very gentle suspension spring to decrease microphonics. the tubes would be somehow up in the air.  it can be done


----------



## abhinit90

logicaudio said:


> If I had a Vali (I don't) I would desolder that little tube of the PCB and put'em on very gentle suspension spring to decrease microphonics. the tubes would be somehow up in the air.  it can be done


 
  
 But the problem is that the contents of the tube (i.e. inside of the tube) is responsible for microphonics and you can't totally eliminate ringing unless you open the tube


----------



## LogicAudio

that's right. as long as we can't open the tube, the trick is to prevent passing shocks to the tube. we can't stop tsunami but we can be long gone to heights before impact


----------



## prsut

logicaudio said:


> If I had a Vali (I don't) I would desolder that little tube of the PCB and put'em on very gentle suspension spring to decrease microphonics. the tubes would be somehow up in the air.  it can be done


 

 I believe it can help. My idea is all resonance shocks from headphone jack plugging, volume knob or tapping are passed to tube through tube legs. 
 I would not desolder but using plier simply cut legs and solder kind of flexible wire, Rest of legs (on PSB side and tube side) I would damp with dynamat stripes.


----------



## abhinit90

^^I don't know a lot, but aren't most of vibrations caused from within the tube. No harm in reducing as mush as we can though.
  
 On the other hand, I'm also guilty about talking about microphonics.
  
 To get back on track, are the PYST RCA interconnects decent or I'm better off with a monoprice one. Some say it's worth it, some don't :|
  
 Has anyone tried a Vali with the DAC of the Aune T1?


----------



## UmustBKidn

bourneperfect said:


> Hey brah-will the Vali ring w/ the headphones in my profile? Couldn't find any info on this after almost three thousand posts. Help a brutha out!!
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## leesure

x838nwy said:


> Umm no. Not really.
> 
> First of all, how do you define 'return on investment'? It cannot make you profits but neither can any audio equipment. So what is this 'return' you're talking about?
> 
> ...




If you're really buying into this, then in sure I could scare up a Tice clock for you to invest in.


----------



## leesure

By the way, I've heard something about micro phonics with the Vali...anyone got any info on that? :veryevil:


----------



## UmustBKidn

leesure said:


> By the way, I've heard something about micro phonics with the Vali...anyone got any info on that?


----------



## LogicAudio

prsut said:


> I believe it can help. My idea is all resonance shocks from headphone jack plugging, volume knob or tapping are passed to tube through tube legs.
> I would not desolder but using plier simply cut legs and solder kind of flexible wire, Rest of legs (on PSB side and tube side) I would damp with dynamat stripes.


 
 I'm in about legs. plugging in headphone just impacts whole the device so hard that tube filament gets noisy and all (or most) of the vibration passes through the tube pins. if it was not about legs, the noise would appear in an intentional hand shaking the amp just like when you shake matchbox. I think Schiit could solve this issue by doing these three simple changes:
 1- these pencil-sized mini tubes benefit too much of elastic rubber rings. I would add two or three rings which IMO decreases the microphonics at least 30-40%
 2- tubes would do alot better if pins were soldered using very flexible multi-strand thin wires not that stiff and hard single conductor pins
 3- they could contrive tubes on a very gentle metal springs based on the PCB as tubes could easily move within a range so they were in a suspension position most of the time
  
 I think these mods will cancel the noise at least 80% and maybe more, one should get the show on the road


----------



## CJs06

The tubes will still ring due to vibrations in the air, like when I speak gentle words of love to the Vali


----------



## x838nwy

leesure said:


> If you're really buying into this, then in sure I could scare up a Tice clock for you to invest in.




If it come to my part of the world with 30 day money-back, i'd hit it.


----------



## K.T.

x838nwy said:


> Yes. Both of them. Which begs the questions - if a Vali is switched on in the woods and there's no one there to hear, do the tubed ring?
> 
> Btw, I'm ordering one and will use the headphone plug/unplug ringing to practice my awesome ninja skills.


 
  
 Don't be silly. Everyone knows nothing exists unless someone is there to observe it and report it on a discussion board.


----------



## StanD

x838nwy said:


> Yes. Both of them. Which begs the questions - if a Vali is switched on in the woods and there's no one there to hear, do the tubed ring?
> 
> Btw, I'm ordering one and will use the headphone plug/unplug ringing to practice my awesome ninja skills.


 
  
  


k.t. said:


> Don't be silly. Everyone knows nothing exists unless someone is there to observe it and report it on a discussion board.


 
 However, if a bear schiits in the woods does it make a difference if nobody hears it if they're in the valley?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

why do people think Schiit hasn't tried all this basic stuff already? They are pretty good at this stuff...


----------



## bizkid

I contacted Electromod to get a pricequote with shipping (from the uk to germany) and it ended up to be 170€ total or 230US$. Crazy...


----------



## Tequilasunriser

nic rhodes said:


> why do people think Schiit hasn't tried all this basic stuff already? They are pretty good at this stuff...




People are idiots.


----------



## LogicAudio

tequilasunriser said:


> People are idiots.


 

 Audio design engineers also classifiy as "people", 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 that's why most "people" modify audio gears even an Audio Note. everywhere is laden with people. people and more people. what a maze!


----------



## StanD

tequilasunriser said:


> People are idiots.


 
 Uh, aren't you one of them as well as the rest of us? Have you no faith in humanity? You don't have to answer that.


----------



## LogicAudio

stand said:


> Uh, aren't you one of them as well as the rest of us? Have you no faith in humanity? You don't have to answer that.


 
 no one is constrained to be a good person, being a mere humankind is just adequate nowadays 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 5 years old Plato from head-fi.org


----------



## FlySweep

IF A VALI RINGS IN THE WOODS.. AND NO ONE'S AROUND TO HEAR IT.. DOES IT MAKE A SOUND?
  

  
  
  
  
 ...
  
  
  
  
 Seriously, folks.. it rings (less for some.. more for others).. we know..


----------



## 1llest

Just got my Vali and this little Schiit is nice. Initial impression (1hr) that it already sounds a little better than my M-Stage.
 Also, no ringing (production 914)


----------



## LogicAudio

1llest said:


> Just got my Vali and this little Schiit is nice. Initial impression (1hr) that it already sounds a little better than my M-Stage.
> Also, no ringing (production 914)


 

 you mean you don't notice a noise when you knock on the chassis?! please double check it


----------



## 1llest

logicaudio said:


> you mean you don't notice a noise when you knock on the chassis?! please double check it


 
  
 Just checked and there is a slight ringing when i tap it. Lasts for 3 secs.


----------



## StanD

flysweep said:


> IF A VALI RINGS IN THE WOODS.. AND NO ONE'S AROUND TO HEAR IT.. DOES IT MAKE A SOUND?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ask the bear that Schiits in the woods, he knows.


----------



## StanD

Today my Asgard 2 arrived. Now I can compare that to the Vali. I will probably keep both Schiits.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 That Asgard 2 sounds very good.


----------



## Skawt01

Was about to pull the trigger on the Vali and Modi combo, but there's no outputs to pipe the DAC to my stereo amplifier to broaden it's appeal.  Wondering if there's a Y type cable setup to siphon the signal from the Modi to the Vali *and *the big stereo amplifier?  Or is this simply not an option w/ this combo?


----------



## M-13

flysweep said:


> IF A VALI RINGS IN THE WOODS.. AND NO ONE'S AROUND TO HEAR IT.. DOES IT MAKE A SOUND?
> 
> Seriously, folks.. it rings (less for some.. more for others).. we know..


 
 Very deep, and also very cute. LOL.
  
 This may be revolutionary but people not only have to deal with microphonics from the Vali, they must also deal with the reality that microphonics will also be a permanent part of the Vali thread on Head-Fi. It will literally be on every page more than once. Now deal with that! ROFL.
  
 Stop complaining about people who are complaining about microphonics


----------



## genclaymore

You could use a RCA switch, one with Two RCA input's and plug the modi into one and the stereo into the other, then the RCA output into the Vali. That way you can switch input's. Tho I don't know how much effect it will have on the quality of the setup.


----------



## Skawt01

genclaymore said:


> You could use a RCA switch, one with Two RCA input's and plug the modi into one and the stereo into the other, then the RCA output into the Vali. That way you can switch input's. Tho I don't know how much effect it will have on the quality of the setup.


 

 Thanks for that.  I was thinking of those little Y type splitters would function but was wondering if there'd be problems introduced into the mix.


----------



## tehsprayer

stand said:


> Today my Asgard 2 arrived. Now I can compare that to the Vali. I will probably keep both Schiits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How does it compare to the Vali and with what headphones?


----------



## 00Dan

How do the Sony MDR MA900s and Philips Fidelio L1 and X1 work with the vali? Also, even though it's out of my price range, just out of curiosity, how is the HD 650?


----------



## CJs06

00dan said:


> How do the Sony MDR MA900s and Philips Fidelio L1 and X1 work with the vali?


 
 The X1s sound fan-screwing-tastic with the Vali. Dynamic and rich are the words.


----------



## bala

bizkid said:


> I contacted Electromod to get a pricequote with shipping (from the uk to germany) and it ended up to be 170€ total or 230US$. Crazy...


 

 Yeah, that sure is crazy! I keep checking Audiophonics but the Vali hasn't popped up there yet!


----------



## 1llest

00dan said:


> How do the Sony MDR MA900s and Philips Fidelio L1 and X1 work with the vali? Also, even though it's out of my price range, just out of curiosity, how is the HD 650?








cjs06 said:


> The X1s sound fan-screwing-tastic with the Vali. Dynamic and rich are the words.




Just got the Vali and it sounds great with the X1. A little more clarity than my M-Stage.

Also, my unit doesn't have any major ringing issues. Only when you tap it and plugging in a headphone. Doesn't last long (3 secs) and barely audible.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Today my Asgard 2 arrived. Now I can compare that to the Vali. I will probably keep both Schiits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


tehsprayer said:


> How does it compare to the Vali and with what headphones?


 
 I've already tried the Asgard2 with both HE-500's and HD600's. In a word, outstanding. If I had to keep only one or could only purchase one, it would be the Asgard 2. The HD600's do well with both amps. The HE-500's does OK with the Vali but the Asgard2 can drive them much harder and that pairing will be my choice. I'll have to try some more later but from memory I think the Asgard delivered bass better to the HE-500's, I'll have to do an A/B this weekend as I wouldn't trust memory for an accurate comparison.
 Of course the Asgard doesn't have the ringing, which in the Vali I have doesn't bug me so much...........OK, just for you....I plugged in my Momentums which are much more sensitive. On the Vali I could hear noise. On the Asgard2 with the gain switch on high and the volume cranked up all the way, not a peep. If I turned on the music my head would have imploded, my eyes would pop out and I would be deaf till death. This amp is the bee's knees.
  
 The Vali does an excellent job with the HD600's, since they are not too sensitive, I hear no noise, yet the HD600's are sensitive enough for the Vali to drive quite loudly. Either amp does an excellent job with the HD600's. If you are planning to drive sensitive IEM's/cans or low efficiency Orthos, the Vali may not be for you. They do an adequate job of driving the HE-600's with no apparent extra distortion, read as sufficient headroom unless you need to play real loud. I can turn it up all the way with the HE-500's and not feel pain although I wouldn't want to listen at that level for too long even though it is not quite blasting. An HE-6 or similar low efficiency can is out of the question. If you like your Vali and it works with your cans/IEM's keep it and enjoy the music.
 TIme to swap the Momentums out and the HE-500's in. I'll listen more to the Vali later as it's upstairs.


----------



## RedBull

x838nwy said:


> If it come to my part of the world with 30 day money-back, i'd hit it.




Yes, yes, yes +10


----------



## K.T.

stand said:


> Today my Asgard 2 arrived. Now I can compare that to the Vali. I will probably keep both Schiits.
> That Asgard 2 sounds very good.




I recently received my Asgard 2, as well. I also love how it sounds.

The Vali and the Asgard 2 are both great sounding amps, but they do sound quite different from one another.

You know what the Vali sounds like, given this is the Vali thread.

The Asgard 2 is smooth, warm, composed, and relaxed. A calm and controlled sound with nothing out of place and no rough edges. Perhaps not the ultimate in transparency, but a very relaxing and well put together sound.

The Asgard 2 has more power than the Vali, and because of that I prefer it over the Vali with both my HE-400 and HE-500. It has more grip and more of a sense of control. The Vali loses out in authority with these phones, in comparison.

The AKG Q701 sounds very good on both amps. Different sounding on each amp, but both very good.

Both amps are great, but mating each of them with the right headphones brings out the best from each. They really don't compete with each other, but are superb amps with their own unique sound. Having one does not negate the other, IMO. I'm happy to own both.


----------



## BournePerfect

k.t. said:


> You know what the Vali sounds like, given this is the Vali thread.


 
  
 Yes. Apparently it sounds like a telephone.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

Some telephone doesn't ring


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Well you've got a problem if your amp is vibrating or completely mute. Lol





redbull said:


> Some telephone doesn't ring


----------



## RedBull

I am planning to buy the demo unit if it doesn't ring


----------



## K.T.

Despite all negative joking regarding the ringing, the ringing is VERY manageable and almost a non-issue in the current production amps (which come with pre-bent, pre-detensioned leads).
  
 You are really missing out if you avoid the Vali on the basis of ringing.
  
 The ringing is THAT manageable, and the sound quality of the amp is THAT good.
  
 It sounds so good that I ended up buying 2 of them.
  
 After tweaking my 1st amp by bending the leads (early production model), ringing isn't even something I think about anymore.
  
 My second amp was already taken care of by the factory. I have no worries or neuroses about the ringing because it's a non-issue in practical use.
  
 If you're being held back from trying the Vali for the ringing, I suggest that you push those worries aside. You owe it to yourself to have an amp that sounds this good.


----------



## mangler

I think the ringing jokes are becoming more common than the schiit jokes


----------



## 00Dan

Still curious as to how the HD 650 would perform with the Vali. Anyone know?


----------



## BournePerfect

00dan said:


> Still curious as to how the HD 650 would perform with the Vali. Anyone know?


----------



## LogicAudio

00dan said:


> Still curious as to how the HD 650 would perform with the Vali. Anyone know?


 
 I tested it with HD800 and it sounded good but the music was somehow in rush! it was not relax and comfortable, causing listening fatigue in my case. in one word "not my cup of tea"


----------



## phillyd

logicaudio said:


> I tested it with HD800 and it sounded good but the music was somehow in rush! it was not relax and comfortable, causing listening fatigue in my case. in one word "not my cup of tea"



Those are VERY different headphones.


----------



## K.T.

00dan said:


> Still curious as to how the HD 650 would perform with the Vali. Anyone know?


 
  
 It's a long thread, so I'm not surprised you couldn't find the comments on this pairing.
  
 From what I recall, the bumped up bass and warm tone of the 650 was too much when paired with the Vali. Too much of a good thing when put together. That was the take away I got.
  
 Apparently, the 600 is a better pairing. It's not as euphonic as the 650, so matches better with the Vali.
  
 I haven't tried the 650 on the Vali myself, so anyone who has, please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## StanD

k.t. said:


> It's a long thread, so I'm not surprised you couldn't find the comments on this pairing.
> 
> From what I recall, the bumped up bass and warm tone of the 650 was too much when paired with the Vali. Too much of a good thing when put together. That was the take away I got.
> 
> ...


 
 This amp is truly neutral so I don't see how that will affect the sound of the HD650.


----------



## New Yorker

Mine came today, #870. I used it as I would any other headphone amp – *not* being extra careful about turning it on, adjusting volume, etc. – and no ringing to speak of. So far I love it. Using a pair of HD-580s.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

stand said:


> This amp is truly neutral so I don't see how that will affect the sound of the HD650.


 
  yes excellent match with 650 and 600


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> This amp is truly neutral so I don't see how that will affect the sound of the HD650.


 
  
  


nic rhodes said:


> yes excellent match with 650 and 600


 
 It works real good with my HD600's and better than expected with my HE-500's. Just be careful of sensitive IEM's or sensitive cans that will expose the background noise of the Vali. Not an issue with the HD600, HD650's or HE500's.


----------



## 1llest

I really like this amp but I find it fatiguing with my X1


----------



## rreifsn

Another of my many Vali updates.  I posted earlier that I gave my Vali to my son when he started back at college to match up with a pair of  HD-600s and kept my old Asgard 1 to run my HE400s.  For me it was a gigantic difference going back to the Asgard and after 3 days I had to ask for it back.  Lol, I felt bad but for me the sound with the HE400s is startling better and I really missed it.  He has my old Asgard 1 now which is a great sounding amp with the HD-600s and I have the Vali back.
  
 For all you guys new to this thread the Vali is a great pairing with the HE400s and the HD-600s.  For me it lifts the soundstage and differentiates each instrument. Try Steely Dan Katy Lied.  Donald Fagen used a local microphonics recording system to capture each player in a separated environment.  Sounds much better on the Vali than Asgard.
  
 As far as the ringing ****, yes it rings when bumped or first turned on.  Get over it. My amp settles down in 20 secs at most and I have it sitting on 2 layers of that grip beaded shelf liner which dampens any vibration.  Just buy this amp especially if you have a nice Sennheiser or lower llvl Ortho.  You will be happy.


----------



## 00Dan

So since I've determined through reading this thread that both of the following work well with the Vali, if you had to pick between an HE-400 or an HD 650 to pair with it, which would it be?


----------



## StanD

rreifsn said:


> Another of my many Vali updates.  I posted earlier that I gave my Vali to my son when he started back at college to match up with a pair of  HD-600s and kept my old Asgard 1 to run my HE400s.  For me it was a gigantic difference going back to the Asgard and after 3 days I had to ask for it back.  Lol, I felt bad but for me the sound with the HE400s is startling better and I really missed it.  He has my old Asgard 1 now which is a great sounding amp with the HD-400s and I have the Vali back.
> 
> For all you guys new to this thread the Vali is a great pairing with the HE400s and the HD-600s.  For me it lifts the soundstage and differentiates each instrument. Try Steely Dan Katy Lied.  Donald Fagen used a local microphonics recording system to capture each player in a separated environment.  Sounds much better on the Vali than Asgard.
> 
> As far as the ringing ****, yes it rings when bumped or first turned on.  Get over it. My amp settles down in 20 secs at most and I have it sitting on 2 layers of that grip beaded shelf liner which dampens any vibration.  Just buy this amp especially if you have a nice Sennheiser or lower llvl Ortho.  You will be happy.


 
 I have a Vali and the newer Asgard 2. The Asgard 2 is very improved, it drives my HD600's and HE-500's superbly.
 My Vali sits directly on a night table and I have no serious ringing issues. I can turn the volume knob and touch the unit, no problems. Plugging the jack in or out starts a short ringing session.


----------



## antikryst

stand said:


> I've already tried the Asgard2 with both HE-500's and HD600's. In a word, outstanding. If I had to keep only one or could only purchase one, it would be the Asgard 2. The HD600's do well with both amps. The HE-500's does OK with the Vali but the Asgard2 can drive them much harder and that pairing will be my choice. I'll have to try some more later but from memory I think the Asgard delivered bass better to the HE-500's, I'll have to do an A/B this weekend as I wouldn't trust memory for an accurate comparison.
> Of course the Asgard doesn't have the ringing, which in the Vali I have doesn't bug me so much...........OK, just for you....I plugged in my Momentums which are much more sensitive. On the Vali I could hear noise. On the Asgard2 with the gain switch on high and the volume cranked up all the way, not a peep. If I turned on the music my head would have imploded, my eyes would pop out and I would be deaf till death. This amp is the bee's knees.
> 
> The Vali does an excellent job with the HD600's, since they are not too sensitive, I hear no noise, yet the HD600's are sensitive enough for the Vali to drive quite loudly. Either amp does an excellent job with the HD600's. If you are planning to drive sensitive IEM's/cans or low efficiency Orthos, the Vali may not be for you. They do an adequate job of driving the HE-600's with no apparent extra distortion, read as sufficient headroom unless you need to play real loud. I can turn it up all the way with the HE-500's and not feel pain although I wouldn't want to listen at that level for too long even though it is not quite blasting. An HE-6 or similar low efficiency can is out of the question. If you like your Vali and it works with your cans/IEM's keep it and enjoy the music.
> TIme to swap the Momentums out and the HE-500's in. I'll listen more to the Vali later as it's upstairs.




So how does the he500 do on the vali vs magni vs asgard 2?

Have the modi and magni stack and the he500s. Thinking of my next upgrade. Bifrost and asgard. Or maybe another modi plus vali for a second setup at home.


----------



## StanD

antikryst said:


> So how does the he500 do on the vali vs magni vs asgard 2?
> 
> Have the modi and magni stack and the he500s. Thinking of my next upgrade. Bifrost and asgard. Or maybe another modi plus vali for a second setup at home.


 
 I don't have a Magni, but do have both the Vali and Asgard 2. The HE-500's play well on both. The Asgard 2 can drive them much louder. I can turn the Vali up all the way and not have to rip the cans off my head. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Asgard 2 has no background noise, the Vali does have some, however, it's not a problem with the HE-500's. At one time I was considering getting the Magni, the specs are very good, distortion very low and plenty of power.
 How does the Magni handle your HE-500's? I suspect that it can drive them rather well.


----------



## swannie007

k.t. said:


> It's a long thread, so I'm not surprised you couldn't find the comments on this pairing.
> 
> From what I recall, the bumped up bass and warm tone of the 650 was too much when paired with the Vali. Too much of a good thing when put together. That was the take away I got.
> 
> ...


 
 I have the 650's and tried them quite a bit(about 4 to 6 hours) with the Vali and must concur, too much of a good thing. I much prefer my Q701's with the Vali, a much better synergy for my ears and more revealing of the background nuances of the music. Hey, different strokes for different folks.


----------



## LogicAudio

1llest said:


> I really like this amp but I find it fatiguing with my X1


 
 I had same frustrating hearing experience with it. sound is good at first hear but won't last too much to unplug it


----------



## heart banger-97

I recently received my Vali. and my Vali's number is 867. I have a question about ringing, that may have been asked before in this thread.
  
 The ringing in my left side, disappear very soon (less than 15 second or maybe less) but in the right, it lasts for about 1 min. is this usual? is it possible that this happens because one of tubes looses its place and comes up? when I hit Vali's box, the ringing in the right ear is much more than left ear too.
  
 thanks


----------



## x838nwy

heart banger-97 said:


> I recently received my Vali. and my Vali's number is 867. I have a question about ringing, that may have been asked before in this thread.
> 
> The ringing in my left side, disappear very soon (less than 15 second or maybe less) but in the right, it lasts for about 1 min. is this usual? is it possible that this happens because one of tubes looses its place and comes up? when I hit Vali's box, the ringing in the right ear is much more than left ear too.
> 
> thanks




Okay, it's Sunday evening here so i'll be nice. It rings. The two sides don't ring the same And i think most people find it worse on the right channel. This i stipulated that it is to do with where the tubes are located on the board - one is notably closer to the headphone jack and the vol. pot than the other. However this has not been confirmed as the actual reason.

And i assume it's not necessary to tap the case?


----------



## coffeenotaddict

Hello
  
 I recently got my Vali+Modi in, and when paired with my PSBM4U-1 headphones, the hissing is severe and unbearable. I am told that this is normal for these efficient headphones. I was wondering what specific measurement in the headphone specifications I should be looking at when judging whether the Vali noise floor would be inaudible with certain headphones.
  
 I initially thought it would just be the sensitivity measurement, but these (apparently) have the same sensitivity level (102db) as Sennheiser HD 800.
  
 I've also been hearing a lot of inconsistent information when it is paired with the Sennheiser HD 598's. Some say that the hissing is non-existent, but I was told at customer service that the 598's do, in fact, hiss.
  
 I'm really hoping these aren't defective. I paid well over the product price because of some really obscene brokerage fees by my terrible shipping company.


----------



## StanD

coffeenotaddict said:


> Hello
> 
> I recently got my Vali+Modi in, and when paired with my PSBM4U-1 headphones, the hissing is severe and unbearable. I am told that this is normal for these efficient headphones. I was wondering what specific measurement in the headphone specifications I should be looking at when judging whether the Vali noise floor would be inaudible with certain headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Your cans are rated at 102 dB/mW at 32 Ohms while the HD800's are 102 db at 1V at 300 Ohms. Not the same story. Sorry, it's too early in the morning for me to start with the calculator and it's Sunday. You'll have to work out the comparative figures.


----------



## prsut

heart banger-97 said:


> I recently received my Vali. and my Vali's number is 867. I have a question about ringing, that may have been asked before in this thread.
> 
> The ringing in my left side, disappear very soon (less than 15 second or maybe less) but in the right, it lasts for about 1 min. is this usual? is it possible that this happens because one of tubes looses its place and comes up? when I hit Vali's box, the ringing in the right ear is much more than left ear too.
> 
> thanks


 

 On my unit it rings opposite. Left is ringing louder and longer. If I want to hear right, I must knock vali hard enough. I did it only once as I do not want to make it worse because ringing is no issue for me.
 When my Vali arrived I unscrewed cover. Both tubes were pressed to foam firmly, but I noticed difference. One tube is parallel to PCB, while other tube is pressed more at legs part - I do not remember what tube - left or right, difference is maybe 5 degrees.


----------



## prsut

coffeenotaddict said:


> Hello
> 
> I recently got my Vali+Modi in, and when paired with my PSBM4U-1 headphones, the hissing is severe and unbearable. I am told that this is normal for these efficient headphones. I was wondering what specific measurement in the headphone specifications I should be looking at when judging whether the Vali noise floor would be inaudible with certain headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 My denons are 25Ohm / 106dB/mW. I hear noise floor, but for example Pink Floyd Dark Side Of The Moon (original Mobile Fidelity ultradisc II Gold CD) has noise floor higher. So my Vali noise is barely audible. Once something is playing I do not register it (Today I had session with Carmen McRae and Shirley Horn).


----------



## StanD

prsut said:


> My denons are 25Ohm / 106dB/mW. I hear noise floor, but for example Pink Floyd Dark Side Of The Moon (original Mobile Fidelity ultradisc II Gold CD) has noise floor higher. So my Vali noise is barely audible. Once something is playing I do not register it (Today I had session with Carmen McRae and Shirley Horn).


 
 Unplug your RCA input cables (source) and then listen for the noise of the Vali itself.


----------



## benjaminhuypham

I know Vali is phenomenal amp, but Go Broncos, Go Orange Crush =))


----------



## heart banger-97

x838nwy said:


> Okay, it's Sunday evening here so i'll be nice. It rings. The two sides don't ring the same And i think most people find it worse on the right channel. This i stipulated that it is to do with where the tubes are located on the board - one is notably closer to the headphone jack and the vol. pot than the other. However this has not been confirmed as the actual reason.
> 
> And i assume it's not necessary to tap the case?


 
  
  


prsut said:


> On my unit it rings opposite. Left is ringing louder and longer. If I want to hear right, I must knock vali hard enough. I did it only once as I do not want to make it worse because ringing is no issue for me.
> When my Vali arrived I unscrewed cover. Both tubes were pressed to foam firmly, but I noticed difference. One tube is parallel to PCB, while other tube is pressed more at legs part - I do not remember what tube - left or right, difference is maybe 5 degrees.


 
 thanks. I just hit vali once, to see how it react and how much does it take that ringing disappear, specially in the right. I hesitate to open my Vali. so I want to ask first and act then.
 maybe I need to look inside the Vali. I can see that one of tubes, is in its place, but I can not see the other


----------



## tehsprayer

Would the Vali be better for the DT 990 than Magni? Also future headphones such as Mad dogs or HE-400s?


----------



## Halonoonan

Can't say for the 990, but just got mine to pair with the HE 400 and it sounds great. 
As for as microphonics, maybe I got lucky or they have fixed it, but I basically have none, even when tapping the Vali.


----------



## Sonido

This amp should be passable for the KEF M500 at 32 ohms, 103 dB sensitivity?


----------



## UmustBKidn

A man went to visit his doctor. When the doctor came in to see him, he asked the man what seemed to be the problem.
  
 The man said, "My arm hurts when I do this." The man then proceeded to bend his arm to an awkward angle.
  
 The doctor said, "What happens when you don't do that to your arm?"
  
 The man replied, "Well, it feels just fine."
  
 The doctor replied, "I recommend you stop bending your arm like that. That'll be $119 dollars, please."


----------



## x838nwy

umustbkidn said:


> A man went to visit his doctor. When the doctor came in to see him, he asked the man what seemed to be the problem.
> 
> The man said, "My arm hurts when I do this." The man then proceeded to bend his arm to an awkward angle.
> 
> ...


 
 May be the Vali's PRAT is SO good, folks just can't stop drumming on the amp casing.


----------



## K.T.

umustbkidn said:


> A man went to visit his doctor. When the doctor came in to see him, he asked the man what seemed to be the problem.
> 
> The man said, "My arm hurts when I do this." The man then proceeded to bend his arm to an awkward angle.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is that the co-pay?
  
 And this "man". It's you, isn't it?
  
 I have a "friend" who did something unwise and needs some legal advice...


----------



## mangler

I know this has already been mentioned about the TH900 and some of the Denons, but I just want to add that the Vali plays nice with the TH600 as well. The ringing disappears, but there is some quiet hissing when there is no sound, although it's not noticeable when music is playing. The only thing is that you'll probably want to fix the volume of the Vali and, if possible, use your source to adjust the volume. Otherwise, the sound is way too loud when the the Vali's knob is barely turned from 0.

As far as sound impressions go, I didn't do a lot of listening since the Vali is mainly for my LCD2, but if anybody wants, I can take some notes and report back  All my impressions will have to be against the Fiio E17 though, since that's what I use when I'm listening to the TH600 at work.


----------



## K.T.

I was raving about good the Sennheiser HD598 sounds on the Vali. Well, I finally plugged my HD600 into the Vali.

Holy Schiit.

This is the best I've ever heard the HD600 sound. Simply amazing.

The 598s went straight back into the bag. No comparison. Not even close. HD600 takes it by a mile.

The Vali is a little miracle, alright. Thank you, Schiit! Good stuff!


----------



## UmustBKidn

k.t. said:


> Is that the co-pay?
> 
> And this "man". It's you, isn't it?
> 
> I have a "friend" who did something unwise and needs some legal advice...


 
  
 A wise man once said, try to learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.


----------



## PXSS

umustbkidn said:


> k.t. said:
> 
> 
> > Is that the co-pay?
> ...


Challenge accepted!


----------



## Belenga

mangler said:


> I know this has already been mentioned about the TH900 and some of the Denons, but I just want to add that the Vali plays nice with the TH600 as well. The ringing disappears, but there is some quiet hissing when there is no sound, although it's not noticeable when music is playing. The only thing is that you'll probably want to fix the volume of the Vali and, if possible, use your source to adjust the volume. Otherwise, the sound is way too loud when the the Vali's knob is barely turned from 0.
> 
> As far as sound impressions go, I didn't do a lot of listening since the Vali is mainly for my LCD2, but if anybody wants, I can take some notes and report back
> 
> ...


 
  
 mangler, would you please tell us more about influences of the Vali might on treble and bass? Some describe TH600's treble as slightly harsh. Does the Vali improve on that? And bass on the Vali is commonly said to be not as textured as in other amps. Do experience that as well, at least when compared to the Fiio E17?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## phillyd

Should the noise be bad on 80Ω headphones?


----------



## StanD

phillyd said:


> Should the noise be bad on 80Ω headphones?


 
 That depends on the can's sensitivity.


----------



## Steven-JK-W

im waiting for the next new amp...


----------



## LNSpilot

I'm really enjoying the Gungnir > Vali > LCD-X. The Vali is a massive step forward in SQ from my first headphone amp, the Pro-Ject Head Box S. 
  
 Comfortable volume around 8-9 o'clock. 
  
 I'm going to listen to my digital set up for a while and then put it over by the turntable for a bit.
  
 I couldn't be happier considering how little it costs.


----------



## phillyd

stand said:


> That depends on the can's sensitivity.




They're DT770 pro's

I've tried finding how this amp pairs with the 80Ω's in general but every post I've found is the 250Ω


----------



## K.T.

umustbkidn said:


> A man went to visit his doctor. When the doctor came in to see him, he asked the man what seemed to be the problem.
> 
> The man said, "My arm hurts when I do this." The man then proceeded to bend his arm to an awkward angle.
> 
> ...


 
  
The man visits another doctor for a 2nd opinion. Doctor says:
  
If you pre-bend the ligaments in your arm, that will solve 90% of your problem. And for the other 10%, stop bending your arm like that!
  
$119, please.


----------



## jaywillin

letting y'all know, i just put my vali up for sale, check out the f/s thread,


----------



## tehsprayer

Is the ringing easy enough to overcome or should I just get the O2/ODAC? Which would sound best with the DT 990, and future headphones like the HD 650 and HE-400?


----------



## New Yorker

The "ringing" is a non-issue. Forget about it. Jeez.


----------



## Binge

new yorker said:


> The "ringing" is a non-issue. Forget about it. Jeez.


 
 It's only an issue with people who stroke their amps when they sound really good.
  
 The Vali will have problems with amp strokers touching it all the time.


----------



## mangler

new yorker said:


> The "ringing" is a non-issue. Forget about it. Jeez.




I have to second this. Before, the ringing would go away in a short period of time, and I personally think people were making a mountain out of a mole hill. It really wasn't THAT bad, at least not after you'd had your headphone plugged in and the volume adjusted, and we're willing to wait a minute or so before you started listening.

Now they've made some adjustments that really make the ringing a non-issue, so much so that you actually have to try to make it ring by tapping on it. I believe these adjustments are just bending the tube leads and pressing the pads down to keep the tubes attached to the board, so even if you got your unit early on you can do these things at home. And if your not comfortable doing these things you can ship it to Schiit and they'll fix it for you (that's what I did  )

I guess I think Schiit has quickly taken care of the ringing issue, and it shouldn't affect your decision to purchase or not. If you do purchase one, I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with it


----------



## Spiral Out

> ~~The "ringing" is a non-issue. Forget about it. Jeez.


 


> ~~I have to second this. Before, the ringing would go away in a short period of time, and I personally think people were making a mountain out of a mole hill. It really wasn't THAT bad, at least not after you'd had your headphone plugged in and the volume adjusted, and we're willing to wait a minute or so before you started listening. Now they've made some adjustments that really make the ringing a non-issue, so much so that you actually have to try to make it ring by tapping on it. I believe these adjustments are just bending the tube leads and pressing the pads down to keep the tubes attached to the board, so even if you got your unit early on you can do these things at home. And if your not comfortable doing these things you can ship it to Schiit and they'll fix it for you (that's what I did smily_headphones1.gif ) I guess I think Schiit has quickly taken care of the ringing issue, and it shouldn't affect your decision to purchase or not. If you do purchase one, I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with it smily_headphones1.gif


 
  
 I totally agree. Ringing is a non issue as far as I'm concerned. It has been blown so far out of proportion at this point. I only hear ringing right after I switch it on for about 30 seconds. Other then that it's non existent. Ringing should not sway anyone from buying the amp IMO.


----------



## K.T.

Yes, for all intents and purposes, the ringing issue has been solved.

If you are using it in a normal home listening environment, ringing should be a non-consideration in your decision making.


----------



## StanD

Are you guys done going on about the ringing? At this point my head is ringing from all this chatter about ringing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Anyone have anything to say about how this amp sounds or not sounds to them?


----------



## jaywillin

vali sound goooooood,


----------



## Spiral Out

I like it, it is good


----------



## StanD

At first I noticed the distortion specs were a bit high for a modern amp. I also have an Asgard 2 which has exceptional distortion specs. So I figured, for $119, What go for it. Well, even though I can hear a touch of harmonic distortion it seems to be even order which is not bad sounding. The IM isn't in my face. This amp sounds good, it had good FR and I can hear the details of the music. The amp is small so it sits by my computer for when I work at home and listen to music It's small and light enough to just pick up and take it around the house to another room. Even though I have other amps, I will not be using the return policy, this baby is staying.


----------



## Sonido

stand said:


> At first I noticed the distortion specs were a bit high for a modern amp. I also have an Asgard 2 which has exceptional distortion specs. So I figured, for $119, What go for it. Well, even though I can hear a touch of harmonic distortion it seems to be even order which is not bad sounding. The IM isn't in my face. This amp sounds good, it had good FR and I can hear the details of the music. The amp is small so it sits by my computer for when I work at home and listen to music It's small and light enough to just pick up and take it around the house to another room. Even though I have other amps, I will not be using the return policy, this baby is staying.


 

 How is it for driving the HE-500? I ordered one as well. I was curious how it would sound with my HD800 in comparison to Crack, and also they confirmed the input impedance is 50K ohms so preamping with my Quickie should work fine. But really it's likely that I will be keeping it at work with the Modi and KEF M500. I'm hoping the 32 ohm/103 dB sensitivity of the M500 will be passable.


----------



## Halonoonan

How does it sound? It sounds great on my HE 400's! Gives such a full and rich sound.


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> How is it for driving the HE-500? I ordered one as well. I was curious how it would sound with my HD800 in comparison to Crack, and also they confirmed the input impedance is 50K ohms so preamping with my Quickie should work fine. But really it's likely that I will be keeping it at work with the Modi and KEF M500. I'm hoping the 32 ohm/103 dB sensitivity of the M500 will be passable.


 
 It so happens to be that I have both an HD600 as well as HE-500. It does a superb job of driving my HD600. Although it won't power the HE-500 enough to burn the ears off the side of my head, it drives them well enough to listen with and without distorting. If you want to damage your hearing, I'd recommend another amp, hehehe. As far as normal listening levels it works with the HE-500. An audio snob might use that as an excuse to diss the amp, but if they got a fancy pants amp and turned it up real loud, they won't be listening to music for too long. Don't know about the KEF M500 but it manages to power the HE-500 which is 89 dB/mW or 103 dB/1V RMS (I converted to 1V from the 89 dB/mW spec). KEF doesn't indicate if it's in mW or 1V spec'd. If it's 1V it's similar to the HE500, if it's in mW then it's much more sensitive than the HE-500's.


----------



## Sonido

stand said:


> It so happens to be that I have both an HD600 as well as HE-500. It does a superb job of driving my HD600. Although it won't power the HE-500 enough to burn the ears off the side of my head, it drives them well enough to listen with and without distorting. If you want to damage your hearing, I'd recommend another amp, hehehe. As far as normal listening levels it works with the HE-500. An audio snob might use that as an excuse to diss the amp, but if they got a fancy pants amp and turned it up real loud, they won't be listening to music for too long. Don't know about the KEF M500 but it manages to power the HE-500 which is 89 dB/mW or 103 dB/1V RMS (I converted to 1V from the 89 dB/mW spec). KEF doesn't indicate if it's in mW or 1V spec'd. If it's 1V it's similar to the HE500, if it's in mW then it's much more sensitive than the HE-500's.


 
  
 Pretty sure it's mW as it's a portable headphone and plays fine from my phone. You think there would be any noise problems?


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> It so happens to be that I have both an HD600 as well as HE-500. It does a superb job of driving my HD600. Although it won't power the HE-500 enough to burn the ears off the side of my head, it drives them well enough to listen with and without distorting. If you want to damage your hearing, I'd recommend another amp, hehehe. As far as normal listening levels it works with the HE-500. An audio snob might use that as an excuse to diss the amp, but if they got a fancy pants amp and turned it up real loud, they won't be listening to music for too long. Don't know about the KEF M500 but it manages to power the HE-500 which is 89 dB/mW or 103 dB/1V RMS (I converted to 1V from the 89 dB/mW spec). KEF doesn't indicate if it's in mW or 1V spec'd. If it's 1V it's similar to the HE500, if it's in mW then it's much more sensitive than the HE-500's.


 
  
  


sonido said:


> Pretty sure it's mW as it's a portable headphone and plays fine from my phone. You think there would be any noise problems?


 
 If it's sensitive, you will hear background noise. I have a pair of Sennheiser around ear Momentums and I can hear background noise, however not a peep with my HD600's or HE-500's.


----------



## mangler

belenga said:


> mangler, would you please tell us more about influences of the Vali might on treble and bass? Some describe TH600's treble as slightly harsh. Does the Vali improve on that? And bass on the Vali is commonly said to be not as textured as in other amps. Do experience that as well, at least when compared to the Fiio E17?
> 
> Thanks in advance.




So, I've been thinking about this today, and to answer the question of how the Vali is with the TH600, i think I'll skip the E17 and just use my W4S DAC2. I'm doing this mostly because if I use the E17 with the Vali I have to use it's amp section, so there really isn't any good way to compare the 2 amps anyway. 

Ok, to test treble I listened to some songs that have bothered me in the past. First was Kendrick Lamar's Swimming Pools. The snare hit has bothered me before (akg 550...), but not at all not the Vali. Just clean and fast, not harsh. The second track is Miles Davis' Blue in Green. I've found that trumpets can really irk me, and this song has done that to me before. Here the trumpet is a bit sharp, but id hesitate to call it harsh or go so far as to call it piercing. I tried out some metal and hardcore as well (converge, at the gates, and heaven shall burn), and again the treble was extended, clear, and not at all painful, but not totally smooth (at least compared to the lcd2 or Stax, which may not be fair).

With regards to treble, something I did have to get used to is just how fast this combo is, which at first can make you jump at a strong snare hit. I don't think this is a bad thing though, and I was probably taken by surprise because I'm more accustomed to the more laid back lcd2. Another thing is that there isn't a lot of play with volume control, making it easy to listen too loud (although this combo is so fun you can't help but turn it up  ), which itself can make the treble painful. Finally, I do recall that of the box I did think the treble was harsh, but after 80 hours either the treble has been tamed or I adapted to it. I guess I should also mention that be Vali probably has about 30h on it and I let it warm up for about 20min.

Ok, so the bass...you have nothing to worry about, at all. First, it SLAMS , is very controlled, and goes deep. As far texture goes, it's excellent. Not exactly hi-fi, but one track I like to use to check texture is ASAP Rocky's Palace. The intro has a deep bass drop, with this combo you can clearly hear and feel all of the ripples (for lack of a better term) throughout the drop. While there in the lcd2, the texture here is on another level. Same story with the intro to Lorn's The Gun. Again true with the electric bass in Mogwai's Chocky. True once more for acoustic bass in Olafur Arnald's Tungli. Long story short, TH600 + Vali = beyond excellent bass 

You didn't ask about mids, but I'll tell you anyway  Basically, the TH600 has recessed mids, and the Vali helps to being them forward...but they're still recessed, but much fuller and maybe even warmer when compared to the E17.

Downsides: The hiss is noticeable, and can be distracting when listening to songs that have large dynamic range, going from soft to quiet. For example, it's pretty noticeable on Jeff Buckley's Mojo Pin. However, if you're listening to something that tends to be a constant volume, or an older recording that already has hiss, the Vali won't do anything to take away from your enjoyment. Still, if you're going to listen critically you may notice it more. Another issue is that you don't have a lot of wiggle room with the volume knob. Right now it's probably at 830, and I wouldn't want to turn it up much louder than this (volume all the way off is ~630). I think an impedance adapter would probably fix the hiss and volume control, but I haven't tried one out yet (the guys at headroom suggested the same thing).

Other upsides: the soundstage is wide, there is headroom for days, transients are insanely fast, it adds a touch of warmth, and is very immersive. Oh, did I mention how fun this is? I honestly wouldn't want to use it at work because I wouldn't get anything done 

To sum it up, I was pleasantly surprised with how good the TH600 is with the Vali. Maybe it's not perfect for all genres or recordings, but for electronic, hip-hop, metal, or other genres that are fast paced and on the louder side, it's a thrilling listen that will get your heart racing and your head moving.

One last thing. I typed this on my iphone, so I'm sure it's full of typos, but hopefully it makes sense and helps somebody out


----------



## Sonido

Ok it's been established the sensitive rating affects the noise floor, but what about the impedance of the headphone? The TH600 has a lowish sensitivity of 94 dB/mW, but it's being reported to have a background noise problem. But it also only has 25 ohm impedance. Do both values affect how audible the background noise is?


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> Ok it's been established the sensitive rating affects the noise floor, but what about the impedance of the headphone? The TH600 has a lowish sensitivity of 94 dB/mW, but it's being reported to have a background noise problem. But it also only has 25 ohm impedance. Do both values affect how audible the background noise is?


 
 If the sensitivity rating is in mW then the impedance is part of the equation. If it's in dB/1V RMS then impedance is not part of the equation,
 So I turned on my calculator and those cans are 110 db / 1V RMS which is reasonably sensitive, about 7 dB more sensitive than the HE-500's.
 Perhaps someone reading this thread has the pair and can _ring in_ on this question. OK, that _ring in_ was a bad Vali joke.


----------



## Sonido

stand said:


> If the sensitivity rating is in mW then the impedance is part of the equation. If it's in dB/1V RMS then impedance is not part of the equation,
> So I turned on my calculator and those cans are 110 db / 1V RMS which is reasonably sensitive, about 7 dB more sensitive than the HE-500's.
> Perhaps someone reading this thread has the pair and can _ring in_ on this question. OK, that _ring in_ was a bad Vali joke.


 
 What's the conversion formula?


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> If the sensitivity rating is in mW then the impedance is part of the equation. If it's in dB/1V RMS then impedance is not part of the equation,
> So I turned on my calculator and those cans are 110 db / 1V RMS which is reasonably sensitive, about 7 dB more sensitive than the HE-500's.
> Perhaps someone reading this thread has the pair and can _ring in_ on this question. OK, that _ring in_ was a bad Vali joke.


 
  
  


sonido said:


> What's the conversion formula?


 
 First you have to convert from mW to voltage.
 voltage = sqrt(power * impedance)
 So voltage = sqrt(.001* 25) is 0.16 V
  
 dB = 20 × log (V2 / V1)
 so: 20 x log (1 / 0.16) = 15.9
 94 + 15.9 = 109.9 dB at 1 V RMS.
  
 And now it's bedtime for today. ttfn


----------



## prsut

I did testing with my two portable hedphones regarding to noise floor.
  
 Phonak Audeo PFE112 : 107db SPL/mW, 32 Ohm/1kHz
 Vsonic GR07 : 105dB (500Hz), 50 Ohm +- 10%
 against my Denon D2000 106dB/mw, 25 Ohm/1kHz
  
 Clear winner is Denon - no hiss (better to say noise floor) at all, second is Phonak. Third is Vsonic, here noise is very high and I cannot recommend using GR07 with Vali - it is like FM radio between stations.
 Surprised ? Me too...
  
 Tested through Vali' volume range with inputs grounded.
  
 What is interesting, when I listen PFE112 or GR07 with Cowon S9->E17, here phonak (very analytical sound) is better on treble, but with Vali, GR07 sounds better. Also notice, Phonaks are more sensitive and lower impedance than GR07, but GR07 noise floor with Vali is horible.
  
 In one of my previous post I reported noise floor is depending on volume. My setup is Oppo 103 + Vali. Vali is about 7cm on left side of Oppo. But behind Oppo I had power plug where TV, Oppo, Vali and two other adapters (usb HDD) are plugged. I placed power plugs out of stand where oppo and vali are so now I have no power transformers near oppo and vali. I also replaced bit short XLO 150 RCA cables to Monster Audio interlink CD to route them not to close of oppo's power plug and chassis. The result : noise floor is no more volume depending, no hum (previously I hear bit of hum at maximum volume)
 This also reduces noise floor, so now I (almost) do not listen noise floor.


----------



## Belenga

mangler said:


> To sum it up, I was pleasantly surprised with how good the TH600 is with the Vali. Maybe it's not perfect for all genres or recordings, but for electronic, hip-hop, metal, or other genres that are fast paced and on the louder side, it's a thrilling listen that will get your heart racing and your head moving.


 
  
 Thanks for the very detailed impressions, mangler. I'm actually thinking of purchasing the Vali + Modi combo for my modded Denon D2000 (with D5000 cups). The Denon is probably not as refined as the TH-600, but they might respond similarly to the Vali.


----------



## StanD

As I remember the noise of the Vali is independent of the position of the Volume control. If varying the Volume control affects the background noise then some if not most of the noise is coming from your source. Unplug your source and listen, then turn the volume control.
 One other point. Amplifiers amplify voltage and supply current. Any sensitivity rating in mW must be converted to voltage and normalized to 1V to get a relative understanding when comparing cans. You can see what I did for Sondido a few posts back.


----------



## 00Dan

Does anyone have experience with the Modi/Vali and the Beyerdynamic T90?


----------



## CEE TEE

Thank you, Vali.  For taking the edge off of Elbow.


----------



## swannie007

Sitting here reading this thread listening to my Vali and Modi combo with my Beyer DT1350's with a 75ohm in line attenuator with my Apple Mac as a source playing FLAC files and it is just heavenly! It is the first time I have ever tried FLAC files and I am mighty impressed! Why didn't I do this sooner? 
 Anyway, just wanted to post that the ringing and noise floor is gone with the 75 ohm in line attenuator. Prior to using it, there was an audible noise floor from the Vali which was quite annoying with quite passages of music and volume changes. Now it is just like a SS amp! 
 No audible noise floor and ringless volume changes with my sensitive low impedance headphones.  
 Hope this is helpful to someone who might be irritated by the noise floor and ringing.


----------



## ssrock64

cee tee said:


> Thank you, Vali.  For taking the edge off of Elbow.


 
 Which album(s), if I may ask? I'm quite the Elbow fan.


----------



## phillyd

Got my Vali last night! Bought a Modi with it and I've been testing the two together with my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80Ω. The brightness of the Modi shows but a little EQing has helped that out. The Vali isn't as warm as expected but also clearer. The units are smaller than I would've thought too!

The sound goes well with my headphones, though as far as temperature goes, it's not much of a change from my Fiio E17. However, it is also much clearer.

The ringing is very tolerable, the usual stuff (tapping, plugging in headphones, turning on and off) causes it, and it lasts for 5-10 seconds. My Vali is number 120. It seems whatever changes Schiit has made for noise work.


----------



## StanD

phillyd said:


> Got my Vali last night! Bought a Modi with it and I've been testing the two together with my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80Ω. The brightness of the Modi shows but a little EQing has helped that out. The Vali isn't as warm as expected but also clearer. The units are smaller than I would've thought too!
> 
> The sound goes well with my headphones, though as far as temperature goes, it's not much of a change from my Fiio E17. However, it is also much clearer.
> 
> The ringing is very tolerable, the usual stuff (tapping, plugging in headphones, turning on and off) causes it, and it lasts for 5-10 seconds. My Vali is number 120. It seems whatever changes Schiit has made for noise work.


 
 Where did you get your Vali from? I got mine a couple of weeks ago and the number is 786.


----------



## phillyd

Maybe I looked at the wrong number. Where on the model is it located?


----------



## StanD

phillyd said:


> Maybe I looked at the wrong number. Where on the model is it located?


 
 On back, next to the power switch.


----------



## phillyd

It says 
SCH12B
000120

Manual says it's revision B


----------



## StanD

phillyd said:


> It says
> SCH12B
> 000120
> 
> Manual says it's revision B


 
 Mine also has REV B printed on the manual and SCH12B on the label next to the power switch. I was just curious why my serial number was 000786. I got mine from Amazon by Amazon, they turned it around in less than 48 hours from online order to in my hands. Where did yours get yours from?


----------



## phillyd

Directly from Schiit.


----------



## trabunco

For reference, I got mine last January 9th with SCH12B 001186 on it.


----------



## StanD

trabunco said:


> For reference, I got mine last January 9th with SCH12B 001186 on it.


 
 Same day as I did.


----------



## CEE TEE

ssrock64 said:


> Which album(s), if I may ask? I'm quite the Elbow fan.


 
 I think I have them all, but yesterday I was listening to the three that are on my phone right now:  Asleep in the Back, Build a Rocket Boys!, Leaders of the Free.  Took Cast of Thousands off last week.  When I found out about them, I couldn't believe that I didn't know about them!  Sometimes the recordings can come off a bit bright/whistling so <just> taking the edge off slightly can help with brighter phones.  Been thinking of adding some stuff to my HD800 mod.


----------



## grizzlybeast

matttcg said:


> My friend that is way, way too loud. As someone who suffers daily from music at dangerous volumes, I'd respectfully caution against listening in such a manner. Save your hearing!!


 
 can the vali drive the mad dogs really loud?


----------



## ssrock64

cee tee said:


> I think I have them all, but yesterday I was listening to the three that are on my phone right now:  Asleep in the Back, Build a Rocket Boys!, Leaders of the Free.  Took Cast of Thousands off last week.  When I found out about them, I couldn't believe that I didn't know about them!  Sometimes the recordings can come off a bit bright/whistling so <just> taking the edge off slightly can help with brighter phones.  Been thinking of adding some stuff to my HD800 mod.


 

 I found them when I bought Leaders of the Free World on a whim at a local record store, and once I heard it I quickly gathered every release I could find. Currently I have Asleep in the Back, Cast of Thousands, Leaders of the Free World, Build a Rocket Boys!, and Dead in the Boot. I think my favorite album overall is Build a Rocket Boys!, but I love Grace Under Pressure from Cast of Thousands and I think it's my favorite track. They're really quite a varied and clever rock band.


----------



## x838nwy

grizzlybeast said:


> can the vali drive the mad dogs really loud?




I do believe it goes up to 11.


----------



## Spiral Out




----------



## 00Dan

00dan said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Modi/Vali and the Beyerdynamic T90?


 
 Still looking for a straight answer on this. The few posts I've found regarding this combo haven't exactly answered my question in full.


----------



## grizzlybeast

00dan said:


> Still looking for a straight answer on this. The few posts I've found regarding this combo haven't exactly answered my question in full.


 
 I will have that combo here soon. Well not the modi but the vali and t90.


----------



## Spiral Out




----------



## grizzlybeast

spiral out said:


>


 
 so barely..


----------



## x838nwy

I'd totally pay like $5 more for Schiit to just screen 11 on the front panel.


----------



## MattTCG

grizzlybeast said:


> can the vali drive the mad dogs really loud?


 
  
 Yes, very. Much louder than I'd ever be comfortable listening to.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Yes, very. Much louder than I'd ever be comfortable listening to.


 

 i bet you'll be in the vali today !


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Hope so and thanks for the loan!!


----------



## Sonido

My Vali came in yesterday and I've had some time to listen to my headphones with it.
  
 First off, I bought it because I was curious after the rave reviews, and for $130 including shipping costs, it was cheap enough to warrant a listen. Also, I wanted to use it with my KEF M500 at work, despite hearing the noise floor problems with more sensitive headphones.
  
 First thing like many noticed was the microphonics of the tubes. I've actually heard tube microphony before my Quickie preamp, but nothing like this. The ringing was very different. The Quickie microphonics was very analog sounding with a reverberation you could associate to tubes. The Vali microphonics was digital in comparison, sounding like a MIDI note. Perhaps this would foreshadow what was to come. Also, the persistence of the ringing last far longer than the Quickie. It would take a good 30 seconds before the microphonics are completely gone compared to less than 10 seconds with the Quickie.
  
 I tried the Vali with the KEF M500 first, and being a portable high sensitivity headphone, the noise floor was apparent. However, once the music started playing, it was unnoticeable. Other than the really quiet parts of songs, I did not hear the background noise at all. As for sound quality, I have to say compared to driving through the Audioengine D3 alone vs. D3 + Vali, the Vali made the sound of the M500 much more dynamic and holographic in dimension. Better detailing as well compared to D3 alone, likely due to the improvement on dimensionality and imaging. I have to say I'm quite satisfied with the performance of the Vali and M500. I will probably get an attenuator to rid the background noise.
  
 Now for the meat of this review: How it pairs with the HD800? Unlike the M500, the HD800 has no noise floor problems. But also unlike the M500, I'm driving the HD800 better than I was the M500. The Vali faces much stiffer competition against the gear I'm currently using with the HD800. Namely the Bottlehead Crack w/ SB. So how does the HD800 sound from the Vali compared to Crack? To put it bluntly, the Vali can't hold a candle to the Crack, at least when paired with the HD800. I found some better dynamics and details from the Crack, but the biggest difference by far was the sound signature. The Vali made the HD800 sound much too bright and thin. It was piercing and quickly fatiguing. I honestly could not stand it. It was pretty much like listening to the HD800 from my solid state D3 directly. This is probably mostly subjective and due to what I'm used to, but I can really understand now why people criticize the HD800 on its brightness and thinness.
  
 I found out from Schiit that the Vali has a 50K ohm input impedance, so that makes it compatible with preamping with my Quickie. The Quickie has been known to me to add a very warm signature, whether it was plugged into the Crack or the Emotiva in my HE-500 setup. Adding the Quickie did help, and at first I thought it had fixed all of the Vali's brightness problems with the HD800. However, after some extended listening, it still got fatiguing, and I could hear the same brightness from the Vali alone. The Quickie may have added some bass and a more wholesome bottom end and gave a warmer sound, but it didn't tone down the highs at all. In the end, I could still hear the same brightness and thinness. I guess compared to the Crack, the Vali just accentuates the highs more, and other than EQ, there's no way around it. I cannot recommend the Vali for the HD800. At least if you're expecting a warm tubey sound, look the other way. The Vali sounds more like a SS amp than a tube amp. Then again, at $130 I don't know of any amp that could give you a warm, non-fatiguing pairing with the HD800. So this is not to hold anything against the Vali; it's not like there's anything in the same price range that could do any better for the HD800. For anyone thinking of getting the HD800, I recommend saving up a bit more and getting the Bottlehead Crack at the very least. And if you want more tactility and a richer bottom end, I recommend using the Quickie(w/ PJCCS) in conjunction with the Crack.
  
 So overall, I think the Vali is definitely a competitive product, probably one of the best in its price range. It definitely sounded great for some headphones like my M500. But don't expect the Vali to be a panacea for a picky headphone like the HD800. Also, for any other headphones that are considered bright and you would like to use a tube amp to tone down the brightness and add warmth, I doubt the Vali is the answer either. This includes headphones like the Beyerdynamic T90, which I used to own. While I never tried out T90 with Vali directly, I would imagine it sound just as bright as using a SS amp.
  
*In conclusion, admire the Vali for its technical strengths like detailing and imaging, especially considering the price and competition, but don't expect the Vali to change the signature of your headphones just because it has tubes.*
  
  
 Chains used in review:
  
 Audioengine D3 -> KEF M500
 vs.
 Audioengine D3 -> Vali -> KEF M500
  
 Audioengine D3 -> Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball -> HD800
 vs.
 Audioengine D3 -> Vali -> HD800
 vs.
 Audioengine D3 -> Bottlehead Quickie w/ PJCCS -> Vali -> HD800
 vs.
 Audioengine D3 -> Bottlehead Quickie w/ PJCCS -> Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball -> HD800


----------



## grizzlybeast

sonido said:


> My Vali came in yesterday and I've had some time to listen to my headphones with it.
> 
> 
> *In conclusion, admire the Vali for its technical strengths like detailing and imaging, especially considering the price and competition, but don't expect the Vali to change the signature of your headphones just because it has tubes.*


 
 What I am seeing from honest reviewers is that the expected tube warmth is absent. There is much conflicting reviews about how it helps sharp treble vs smoothing it out. What I am getting it is a good amp but not a tube sounding amp. I have one on the way and will compare it with another tube amp. But I already know what to expect. This is like the 4th time I have seen this. 
  
 I do however think that the vali and crack isn't a really fair fight by reading reviews. The moment I saw you put it up against it I was like "well I know how this is going to go". The crack is a unanimously proven awesome amp. I have not seen one bad review on it ever since it came out a while ago. I just wish that when I went to the site it had pre-built ones. I would have bought it instead of the new Nuforce Icon DAC. 
  
 Which one has more power of the two between the vali and crack?


----------



## Sonido

grizzlybeast said:


> Which one has more power of the two between the vali and crack?


 
 That depends on the impedance of the headphone. I can tell you trying my M500 with Crack makes it sound broken. Like you hear nothing but distortion. Like listening to a pre-mastering version of the song or something. The Vali is the more versatile of the two for sure. Granted it's not gonna be able to drive some power hungry planars like the HE-6. I briefly tried it with my HE-500, and while it didn't sound bad, it lacked the oomph the Emotiva gave.


----------



## grizzlybeast

sonido said:


> That depends on the impedance of the headphone. I can tell you trying my M500 with Crack makes it sound broken. Like you hear nothing but distortion. Like listening to a pre-mastering version of the song or something. The Vali is the more versatile of the two for sure. Granted it's not gonna be able to drive some power hungry planars like the HE-6. I briefly tried it with my HE-500, and while it didn't sound bad, it lacked the oomph the Emotiva gave.


 
 emotiva = beast
 I slap myself everytime I remember selling the one i had with the 1/4 inch jack modded in the front. I didn't like it with the modi. Modi was the weak link there. 
  
 NE ways thanks a lot bro and good write up!


----------



## jimmers

Thanks, that was worth reading.


----------



## Spiral Out

Comparing a $400 (unassembled kit) amp with a $120 amp is pretty unfair. Of course the Bottlehead will most likely sound better and have a more "tubey" sound as it is an OTL design. The Vali is a great amp and compete with amps twice it's price, but amps four to six times as much are in all likelihood going to be superior.


----------



## Sonido

spiral out said:


> Comparing a $400 (unassembled kit) amp with a $120 amp is pretty unfair. Of course the Bottlehead will most likely sound better and have a more "tubey" sound as it is an OTL design. The Vali is a great amp and compete with amps twice it's price, but amps four to six times as much are in all likelihood going to be superior.


 

 Very true and as expected. But when I was reading up on the Vali, I heard people mention it was a good pairing with the HD800, or it could hold its own with the Crack, I wanted to give my own impressions on those two statements. Actually, it probably could hold its own with the Crack in many ways and for other headphones, just not the HD800. To me, the Vali is about the same as getting a Fiio or Modi or O2 for the HD800. You better get used to the brightness and fatigue.


----------



## grizzlybeast

spiral out said:


> Comparing a $400 (unassembled kit) amp with a $120 amp is pretty unfair. Of course the Bottlehead will most likely sound better and have a more "tubey" sound as it is an OTL design. The Vali is a great amp and compete with amps twice it's price, but amps four to six times as much are in all likelihood going to be superior.


 
 you know what though... Now that I think about it I think the purpose of it was to see if it has a real tube sound and to compare it to a solid state sound and tube sound. Overall it was very useful in communicating the fact that the vali doesn't put the tube warmth over the bright headphones. 
  
 I will compare it myself as well but with a cheaper no name tube amp and I will see as well. I really do believe his impressions are inline with others and therefore would call it accurate. 
  
 I also think it was worth comparing to the crack but that while reading I had no expectations of the vali to hold its own next to it. 
  
 I would like to know which of the two had better instrument separation and imaging. The crack isnt known for its details etc but for its bass and warmth and richness while being clear


----------



## Spiral Out

> ~~To me, the Vali is about the same as getting a Fiio or Modi or O2 for the HD800. You better get used to the brightness and fatigue.


 
  
 I really don't find the Vali bright or fatiguing in the least with my DT880 .I have never listened to the  HD800 (unfortunately) so I am not sure what it's sound signature is. I can tell you this much though, if I spent $1500 on headphones I sure as schiit would spend more than $120 on the amp. Thank you for your write up, it was a good read


----------



## Sonido

grizzlybeast said:


> I would like to know which of the two had better instrument separation and imaging. The crack isnt known for its details etc but for its bass and warmth and richness while being clear


 
 Heh I couldn't focus down on those elements when listening to the Vali with HD800 as I was too distracted by the brightness. Still, I think those are areas the Vali could give the Crack a run for its money. I'll have to compare for those things later.


----------



## Spiral Out

> ~~Now that I think about it I think the purpose of it was to see if it has a real tube sound and to compare it to a solid state sound and tube sound. Overall it was very useful in communicating the fact that the vali doesn't put the tube warmth over the bright headphones.


 
  
 I definitely see where you are coming from.  I think a more even comparison would be with something like a Little Dot, which is around the same price range as the Vali. I would be interested to read a comparison of a MK2 and the Vali.


----------



## grizzlybeast

send me one ill do it he he...


----------



## Spiral Out

I would love to but I'm kind of using it now. You could send the Little Dot my way and I would be happy to do a comparison


----------



## sling5s

I found the Vali pleasant, musical and engaging with Grado Magnums and JH13pro (with impedance adaptor/attenuator).  The light warmth and midrange wetness really complements the Grado and JH13pro.  I found the Vali great with the LCD-2 also.


----------



## Sonido

sling5s said:


> I found the Vali pleasant, musical and engaging with Grado Magnums and JH13pro (with impedance adaptor/attenuator).  The light warmth and midrange wetness really complements the Grado and JH13pro.  I found the Vali a little too warm and congested sounding with the LCD-2.  But need to give it more time.


 

 What attenuator are you using?


----------



## sling5s

I got an impedance adaptor from ebay.  It adds 50ohm's.  It reduces most of the hiss.  Not all but most.


----------



## grizzlybeast

spiral out said:


> I would love to but I'm kind of using it now. You could send the Little Dot my way and I would be happy to do a comparison


 
 ha ha neither one of us have the little dot. lol we both have the vali. Mine just came in right now.


----------



## sling5s

Vali is definitely a better amp than Little Dot +.  Not even close.


----------



## Spiral Out

> Vali is definitely a better amp than Little Dot +. Not even close.


 
  
 That's good to know. I was seriously considering getting a Little Dot before I decided on the Vali.


----------



## jaywillin

i've had both the ld and the vali, as for which is better, i think it depends on the headphones being driven, both are outstanding though


----------



## olor1n

sonido said:


> spiral out said:
> 
> 
> > Comparing a $400 (unassembled kit) amp with a $120 amp is pretty unfair. Of course the Bottlehead will most likely sound better and have a more "tubey" sound as it is an OTL design. The Vali is a great amp and compete with amps twice it's price, but amps four to six times as much are in all likelihood going to be superior.
> ...


 
  
 It's worth noting the source components employed by HD800 owners who have praised its synergy with that headphone. The first impressions of this amp were from people who are very familiar with quality gear and it was stated from the outset that the Vali was quite capable of resolving upstream components. Others have since verified these claims and I can attest to the same findings.
  
 Perhaps the treble glare you speak of stems from your D3 dac? I'm sure the BH stuff is good but the impression I get from your post is that you're employing those things to EQ what you hear through your HD800.
  
 The Vali isn't the be-all but it is a fine amp. It doesn't roll off the upper registers. Treble is extended, pristine and incredibly smooth to my ears. Really good match for the HD800. There are only two reasonable explanations for thinking otherwise - 1) your upstream components aren't up to scratch and 2) you are fine with stifling the HD800 best qualities in favour of smothering it into a totally different headphone.


----------



## Sonido

olor1n said:


> It's worth noting the source components employed by HD800 owners who have praised its synergy with that headphone. The first impressions of this amp were from people who are very familiar with quality gear and it was stated from the outset that the Vali was quite capable of resolving upstream components. Others have since verified these claims and I can attest to the same findings.
> 
> Perhaps the treble glare you speak of stems from your D3 dac? I'm sure the BH stuff is good but the impression I get from your post is that you're employing those things to EQ what you hear through your HD800.
> 
> The Vali isn't the be-all but it is a fine amp. It doesn't roll off the upper registers. Treble is extended, pristine and incredibly smooth to my ears. Really good match for the HD800. There are only two reasonable explanations for thinking otherwise - 1) your upstream components aren't up to scratch and 2) you are fine with stifling the HD800 best qualities in favour of smothering it into a totally different headphone.


 

 Probably #2. I admit my preferred chain for the HD800 is far from the pure frequency response that the HD800 was designed to have. And that's fine with me. I care more for my own subjective enjoyment of music. I don't want to get into what's the right way to listen to music argument so I'll just leave it at that. I like the HD800 for its technical superiorities such as soundstaging and detailing, but I'm not a big fan its stock sound signature. I mentioned the Vali to not add warmth like the Crack, and for me it was bright. I guess was not clear on this, but I don't think the Vali added highs or treble either. I think it did a good job pushing out the stock sound of the HD800. From an engineering standpoint, this is a success. However, for my personal enjoyment, I didn't like the sound with the HD800.
  
 The way I see it, it's easier to alter the signature of a headphone than it is to improve its technicalities. That's what I have chosen to do with my setup. Now your #2 statement is a bit loaded to say I have destroyed the best qualities of the HD800. I don't think I have done that at all. Like I said, I kept the technical qualities, but changed the sound signature. You'll find a lot of people follow the same line of thought to some degree. They may not openly seek to completely reshape the sound signature, but many have claimed tube amps to work well with the HD800, because it somewhat changes the signature to be more euphonic to the ears. In fact, if it was all about the numbers and purity of signal, why do we even bother with tube amps. It's known solid state technology have superseded tube technology as far as objective metrics are concerned.


----------



## olor1n

Quote:


sonido said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  
 I respect that the pursuit is for your subjective enjoyment. Please don't misconstrue my post as a rally cry for fundamentalist objectivity.
  
 What I'm speculating is whether the added warmth of your pre and amp are masking the inherent glare of your source. It's stated elsewhere that the Vali is a glimpse of tubes "done right" - i.e. soundstage, transparency, dynamics - as opposed to the tube laced warmth which often comes at the expense of resolution.
  
 Apologies in advance but here's a gross generalisation - those who want to preserve the HD800's qualities tend to explore the Eddie Current range, while those wanting to flavour the HD800 will look at the Woo offerings. From most accounts the Vali is in the EC camp (though not in the same league). By your own admission you want to colour the HD800 a certain way. Maybe the quality of your source is at play, as evidenced by impressions to the contrary, and you prefer to open door # 2 to address these issues. So your impressions are actually in line with what has already been stated.  It's just that your priorities are different.
  
  
 edit: added quote for context.


----------



## squidwid

I own the Vali and the Crack w/speedball and use them with my HD-600's.
As dumb as this may sound, I've been tube rolling a bit to get the crack to sound closer to the Vali.
It's not working out too well. I mostly listen to rock, so muddy kick drums and unenthusiastic snare hits
from the crack have made me decide to put it up for sale in the next day or two.
If I could find a hybrid sound between these two amps...like a Vali with a bit more body, I'd be in heaven.


----------



## Sonido

> Originally Posted by *olor1n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I respect that the pursuit is for your subjective enjoyment. Please don't misconstrue my post as a rally cry for fundamentalist objectivity.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup. You could say the Vali does right for tubes in that it doesn't color the sound as much compared to other tubes, and is more similar sounding to a solid state amp, and this is an engineering feat. The Vali is also likely more accurate and pure in the signal amplification compared to other tube amps. Even in my original review post, I stated that the takeaway is don't expect the Vali to color the sound like most tube amps do. Now whether someone wants to purposely color the sound to their own tastes is a personal choice. I guess we all know where I stand on that one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I do think this topic of tube warmth and coloration is important to mention though. It's very likely people looking at tube amps are also looking for and expecting that tube sound, and they would end up being disappointed with the Vali.


----------



## MickeyVee

Give the Vali at least a couple of weeks / 100+ hours before deciding on how it is with the HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't find it harsh at all, extended yes, fatiguing, no. But saying that, 99% of my HD800 listening is now through my Naim.
 Quote:


sonido said:


> My Vali came in yesterday and I've had some time to listen to my headphones with it.


----------



## daft357

What are some good cables for Vali/Modi stack? 
  
 Are the PYST cables any good?


----------



## tehsprayer

daft357 said:


> What are some good cables for Vali/Modi stack?
> 
> Are the PYST cables any good?


 
 PYST are fine, but just get some regular RCA cables at your local electronic store or monoprice would be the easiest.


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> Yup. You could say the Vali does right for tubes in that it doesn't color the sound as much compared to other tubes, and is more similar sounding to a solid state amp, and this is an engineering feat. The Vali is also likely more accurate and pure in the signal amplification compared to other tube amps. Even in my original review post, I stated that the takeaway is don't expect the Vali to color the sound like most tube amps do. Now whether someone wants to purposely color the sound to their own tastes is a personal choice. I guess we all know where I stand on that one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yep it doesn't color as much as other tube amps because it's a hybrid with a SS output stage. Some of the cheap pure tube amps are really bad at harmonic distortion or even IMD or TIMD. High end tube amps can get to be very clean sounding, but at those lofty prices, ouch. Right now I've got my HE-500's plugged into my Vali and it can drive them, sounds real good.
 Since, I think you like a clean sound, if you get a chance try the Asgard 2 with your HE-500's. You might like it better than the Emotiva.


----------



## daft357

tehsprayer said:


> PYST are fine, but just get some regular RCA cables at your local electronic store or monoprice would be the easiest.




Thanks for the reply. 

I totally forgot there's a Radioshack nearby. I'll check prices before I buy anything.

Quick question. Is worth it spending a little more for USB or RCA?


----------



## grizzlybeast

I like the vali.... I don't know what it is because I just got the o2 as well but together they are very transparent. They sound like they don't exist but cleans up things and helps the bass out.


----------



## phillyd

daft357 said:


> What are some good cables for Vali/Modi stack?
> 
> Are the PYST cables any good?




PYST are fine but overpriced.

These work great:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The beauty of the PYST is their length, they are a decent cable also but come without clutter that would prevent the use of even my 0.5m cables.


----------



## daft357

phillyd said:


> PYST are fine but overpriced.
> 
> These work great:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2




I'll most likely end up purchasing Monoprice cables. I doubt there would any quality difference?


----------



## Sonido

Giving another listen to Vali with HD800, I have to say it does as well as any amp I've heard when it comes to technical details. The soundstaging is wide and the detailing is superb. It has a very airy feel compared to my Crack. It definitely brings out the stock HD800 sound very well, and is especially shocking considering its price. That said, the HD800 sounds rather polite, and lacks the dynamics and euphony I get from the Quickie + Crack. I can imagine the Vali + HD800 combo be great for listening to more polite genres like classical music. For me though, I listen to a lot of rock and pop, and while many have said the HD800 is weak in those genres, I have to disagree. With my Quickie + Crack pairing, it sounds as good as any headphone I've heard in dynamics, presentation, and engagement. In fact, I prefer it even over the HE-500 for rock/pop with my setup. I think this speaks more to how versatile and malleable the HD800 can be depending on your chain.


----------



## grizzlybeast

^makes sense
  
 so far I am liking the vali more than I thought.


----------



## blasjw

phillyd said:


> PYST are fine but overpriced.
> 
> These work great:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2


 
  
 Well maybe not that overpriced since they source their cables from Straight Wire and AFAICT the $20 PYST USB cable, for example, is identical to this $42 Straight Wire model:
 http://soundapproach.com/straight-wire-usb-link-high-speed-digital-audio-cable.html


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> Giving another listen to Vali with HD800, I have to say it does as well as any amp I've heard when it comes to technical details. The soundstaging is wide and the detailing is superb. It has a very airy feel compared to my Crack. It definitely brings out the stock HD800 sound very well, and is especially shocking considering its price. That said, the HD800 sounds rather polite, and lacks the dynamics and euphony I get from the Quickie + Crack. I can imagine the Vali + HD800 combo be great for listening to more polite genres like classical music. For me though, I listen to a lot of rock and pop, and while many have said the HD800 is weak in those genres, I have to disagree. With my Quickie + Crack pairing, it sounds as good as any headphone I've heard in dynamics, presentation, and engagement. In fact, I prefer it even over the HE-500 for rock/pop with my setup. I think this speaks more to how versatile and malleable the HD800 can be depending on your chain.


 
 I really like the HD800's and didn't find the treble to be fatiguing or whatever it is that some whinge about.The only reason I don't have a pair is the price and that I've overspent in recent months, so that day might be coming. I also have too many cans and will get the the evil eye from my wife if she sees a new pair of cans. She can use Google and then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I don't think they're as hard to amp as many make it out to be. IMO, some folks like to get exotic amps and make too big a deal of it.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi olor1n,
  
 Quote:


olor1n said:


> Apologies in advance but here's a gross generalisation - those who want to preserve the HD800's qualities tend to explore the Eddie Current range, while those wanting to flavour the HD800 will look at the Woo offerings. From most accounts the Vali is in the EC camp (though not in the same league). By your own admission you want to colour the HD800 a certain way.


 
  
 This makes so much sense to me and rings true with many hours of reading - to find an amp for my recently purchased HD800.
  
 Bunches of people say I should buy the Woo WA6SE, for example, while others are saying I'll have to go with something exotic (Eddie Current or Cavalli's Liquid Glass, for example). But hidden in the two schools of thought, are the distinctions you've made, here - that one approach compensates the HD800 by coloring it and adding distortion - as you said earlier, "stifling" some of its desirable traits (resolution), while the other approach preserves its desirable traits, while giving the HD800 what it wants (without coloration or distortion.)  
  
 I can't afford the Eddie Current and Cavalli offerings, so I'm going to do myself a favor and stop right here, at the Vali, which, as you've implied, gets me in the same camp, but not the same class of performance. So be it.  The Vali > HD800 gives me a unique and very desirable experience that I don't get with my other amp/headphone combinations - allowing the HD800 to perform true to its design - well enough that I want to keep the H800 - again, with no desire to go hunting for an amp I can't afford or an amp that "stifles" what the HD800 brings to the table.
  
 For the record, the single best headphone sound I've personally ever heard (my ears, my tastes) was Jazzerdave's rig, at a meet here in Dallas:  
  
 Peachtree iDAC (fed with a USB to S/PIF converter I can't recall) > Cavalli Liquid Glass (with who knows which tubes) > HD800
  
 My Concero > Vali > HD800 doesn't get me there, but no other DAC/amp combo I've tried gets me any closer - certainly nothing solid state.
  
 I'm really glad FlySweep recommended the Vali for my HD800, otherwise, I would probably end up selling it for lack of willingness to spend big bucks on an amp that's in the same camp. 
  
 Mike


----------



## olor1n

That's why I felt compelled to post a response. Dramatic statements about treble can be misconstrued and lead people to overlook the Vali. Dismissing it without giving thought to flaws originating further upstream or simply because it fails to act as an EQ.

This is a great disservice IMO. Those who've lived with the HD800 know how fickle this headphone is and historically a hefty investment followed the pursuit to get it to perform adequately. The Vali bucks that trend and deserves to be one of the first recommended to those building a system around the HD800. It's an affordable gateway to summit-fi.


----------



## jaywillin

olor1n said:


> That's why I felt compelled to post a response. Dramatic statements about treble can be misconstrued and lead people to overlook the Vali. Dismissing it without giving thought to flaws originating further upstream or simply because it fails to act as an EQ.
> 
> This is a great disservice IMO. Those who've lived with the HD800 know how fickle this headphone is and historically a hefty investment followed the pursuit to get it to perform adequately. The Vali bucks that trend and deserves to be one of the first recommended to those building a system around the HD800. It's an affordable gateway to summit-fi.


 

 very much agree, i've got a friend wanting to try the lcd2, which is finicky about amplification too, he's worried about having to go large
 with an amp to start out, i told him to get a vali for now, it drives the lcd2 just fine, i'm listening to the pair right now !


----------



## purrin

olor1n and zilch0md are two guys who get it.
  
 The Vali sounds nothing like the tube amps with added warmth, syrup, and rolled-off highs. Amps in this category would include the Lebens, Woo WA2, HFM EF-5, etc. This is known as "goo-factor" and what most people think "tubes" sound like when in fact this is "tubes done wrong", at least from an audio engineering point of view. (Tubes have been and were used in music production until the mid 80s - for obvious reasons, it's crucial that such studio or production gear not have a high goo-factor). High goo-factor amps add a significant amount of pleasant and forgiving coloration while at the same time also subtracting musical information by blunting attacks, taking away bite, masking low level information, slowing down bass. There is absolutely nothing wrong with high goo-factor tube amps. They can work well with the HD800 depending upon how one views the HD800.
  
 The Vali is not a high goo-factor amp. However, the Vali still does provide a sense of inner warmth. This is what I would consider "tubey", or at least "tubes done right". Another word which I threw out about 593 posts ago was "wet" (opposite of dry or wooden.) In that sense, the Vali, despite it being a hyrid amp, is actually fairly "tubey" (even then, this effect is very subtle and the uninitiated may not immediately recognize it); and tubey on level of such amps as the EC Zana Deux or DNA Stratus. Neither of the specific aforementioned EC or DNA models gloss things over or warm things up to mush, but they do provide a smooth liquid presentation which is seldom heard in pure solid-state amps. Both the EC and DNA still provide plenty of air, and lots of bite and attack, with the DNA is a bit smoother with less etch in the mid treble.
  
 Where I'm getting at here is that at real-life musical performances, I hear a LOT of treble energy, bite from trumpets, violins, cymbal smashes, etc. But there's still a naturalness to how his massive treble energy is hear. It doesn't hurt my ears. The issue I have with most solid-state amps is that they don't render this treble information in a way that doesn't hurt. I don't think tubes nail the treble 100% either (there's that wet euphonic coloration going on), but at least that artificial solid-state treble edge, glare, splash is taken off.
  
 BTW, the tube amp which reminds me most of the Vali is the ECZD. (At least in style of presentation - make no mistake, the ECZD kicks the Vali's ass, as it should.) Both amps have moderately high output impedance of about 8-12, a euphonic "wet" sound, and not much taken away from the treble. All the bite and zing is still going to be there, but without artificial solid-state treble nasties. For some people, this will still not be enough to tame the peculiarities of the HD800. It's a balancing act. How far is one willing to go to make the HD800 listenable? If we go too far, we start to lose out of the technicalities the HD800 is capable of reproducing.


----------



## zilch0md

Oh gee, I'm reluctant to offer a contradicting opinion, but there's no accounting for my taste, so here goes...  
  
 I've had the LCD-2 rev.1 for three years now and first, I don't find it to be anywhere near as "finicky" about amps, as the HD800.  Secondly, it can sound marginally "OK" on relatively weak amps - as long as they are neutral and transparent.  The LCD-2 does, however, scale very rewardingly when given additional power - with Audeze support recommending a minimum of 1W rms into 50 Ohms.  
  
 In my opinion, every amp I own or have ever owned sounds better than the Vali with the LCD-2. The Vali just doesn't have enough power to control the bass or even the mids. It sounds congested with the LCD-2.  There's a lack of control and poor dynamics. 
  
 Mike


----------



## jaywillin

i have the lcd2r2, and i've not head the hd800 at all, i didn't mean to imply that the lcd is as finicky as it is, i have no idea
 and maybe finicky was a bad choice of words,
 i'm able to listen to the lcd through the vali, and the mjo, and change on the fly, i have a balanced cable and adapter
 from chris_himself, i have a wadia 121 feeing both amps, while the vali isn't as good as the mjo
 it is still enjoyable to listen too
 thats just my experience and opinion, we all got different ears, so its all good !!
 oh, and i enjoy my grado's out of the vali as well, is it as good as my mad ear+ hd ? no, but its damn good


----------



## Sonido

Why not have it all? Why choose? I think it's nice to be able to have an amp that plays the HD800 true to its sound and one that alters it for a different presentation. I think the Vali actually allows more detail and an analytical approach for the HD800 over Crack. But it's also lacking in body and becomes more of a studio recording session than a relaxing, enjoy the music session. It all depends on what you want to achieve.


----------



## grizzlybeast

the vali or odac is smoothing out/taming/reducing my bass and attack and I don't like it. 
  
 i need to figure this out.


----------



## sling5s

To me the Vali is one of the best sounding amp I have heard.  Not just in it's price range.  
 Notice I didn't say one of the best performing amp.  It lack the bass authority, punch and control not to mention wide soundstage.  
 I have listened to many amps but most in the $500 to $1200 range and many were "bright and dry" (like O2) or "warm and dry" (V200).  Very few had the "sweetness" or if you call it "wetness" that really made them enjoyable for me.  The only amp that comes close to the sound signature of the Vali come from old Vintage Pioneer Receivers (SX-737).  They were/are musical, sweet with a sight warmth with an engaging and lively sound.   Anyways, I love the sweet sounding signature with the great micro-details that it provides. 
  
 Thanks Purrin.  You were right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  on this.  I also owe you for the TP mod on the LCD-2.1.


----------



## darthian123

Would anyone recommend using sensitive IEMs with the Vali? I'm planning to buy an amp to pair with Modi and my customs, but struggling whether to get the Vali or Magni. Can anyone offer help please? Thanks a lot


----------



## sling5s

If need to use impedance adaptor, with sensitive IEM. I use it with my jh13 with the vali and it's sounds great. It reduces most of the hiss but not all


----------



## tehsprayer

darthian123 said:


> Would anyone recommend using sensitive IEMs with the Vali? I'm planning to buy an amp to pair with Modi and my customs, but struggling whether to get the Vali or Magni. Can anyone offer help please? Thanks a lot


 
 You would be much better off with the magni or o2. Escpecially the o2, it has a very low noise floor from what i've heard.


----------



## Spiral Out

I get a fair amount of noise with my Grado SR225 (32 ohms) with the Vali. It's not really noticeable when music is playing. I would think an headphone below 32 ohm and high sensitivity would be unsuitable with the Vali, unless you had an adaptor to raise the impedance as others have suggested.


----------



## darthian123

tehsprayer said:


> You would be much better off with the magni or o2. Escpecially the o2, it has a very low noise floor from what i've heard.


 
  
  


sling5s said:


> If need to use impedance adaptor, with sensitive IEM. I use it with my jh13 with the vali and it's sounds great. It reduces most of the hiss but not all


 
  
  


spiral out said:


> I get a fair amount of noise with my Grado SR225 (32 ohms) with the Vali. It's not really noticeable when music is playing. I would think an headphone below 32 ohm and high sensitivity would be unsuitable with the Vali, unless you had an adaptor to raise the impedance as others have suggested.


 
  
 Thanks guys! Actually is the adaptor going to affect the sound quality?


----------



## olor1n

sonido said:


> Why not have it all? Why choose? I think it's nice to be able to have an amp that plays the HD800 true to its sound and one that alters it for a different presentation. *I think the Vali actually allows more detail and an analytical approach for the HD800 over Crack. But it's also lacking in body and becomes more of a studio recording session than a relaxing, enjoy the music session.* It all depends on what you want to achieve.


 
  
 I'm in the cheer-squad for euphony and musical involvement. The HD650 is one of my favourite headphones and I often overlook its deficiencies in favour of engagement. The Vali is firmly in this category IMO. For all the praise, it is NOT the be-all. I have issue with its lack of control in the bass region compared to the Mjolnir. But it IS a very affordable amp with pros that greatly outweigh cons.
  
 The clarity in the upper registers, the depth of soundstage, the rendition of low-level detail, the liquidity in its transitions and that pleasing reverb like quality - all combine to render a captivating analogue signature, sans the treble edge and glare evident in SS.
  
 Relaxing and enjoyable? Yes. Analytical (in that dreary, sterile sense)? Far from it.
  
 I've always been curious about the Crack's supposed synergy with Senn headphones. If it's a component that makes the Vali sound comparatively thin and analytical then it is likely one component that goes too far in colouring the transducer. Your posts serve as a warning for me to stay clear of it.


----------



## sling5s

It should not.


----------



## phillyd

Just bought some Hifiman HE-300, as I am sick of my DT770 Pro. I will test them with this and my Fiio E17, to see how they compare.


----------



## sling5s

The Vali is so addictive: love the transparent, detailed yet sweet and musical tone. Did I say resolving?


----------



## Sonido

olor1n said:


> I'm in the cheer-squad for euphony and musical involvement. The HD650 is one of my favourite headphones and I often overlook its deficiencies in favour of engagement. The Vali is firmly in this category IMO. For all the praise, it is NOT the be-all. I have issue with its lack of control in the bass region compared to the Mjolnir. But it IS a very affordable amp with pros that greatly outweigh cons.
> 
> The clarity in the upper registers, the depth of soundstage, the rendition of low-level detail, the liquidity in its transitions and that pleasing reverb like quality - all combine to render a captivating analogue signature, sans the treble edge and glare evident in SS.
> 
> ...



I think that's just indicative of OTL tube technology. I noticed on details, while microdetails are more apparent with the Vali, you can hear it as well on the Crack, but it's not as apparent because there is a larger bass presence as opposed to treble for the Vali. The treble is very airy and almost electrostatic like. It's the closest headphone I've heard compared to my ESP950 in treble. I think due to the bass presence from the Crack, you don't hear the treble as much and this contributes to a sense of less microdetails, even though it's there. But that bass presence gives that body and tactility to instruments that makes guitar strums and drums so realistic. I guess you can't have airiness, very apparent microdetails and bass slam, tactility because the bass easily drowns out the treble and you need a level of bass and slightly slower decay to give that sense of body. And to hit that threshold, it would be too much and would cover up the treble presence. Plus a slower bass to gives the sense of body is the exact opposite of a fast treble that brings details and airiness. Barring separate bass and treble drivers, I don't know if you can have both, and it would be hard to balance it in a way that you get both.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> I get a fair amount of noise with my Grado SR225 (32 ohms) with the Vali. It's not really noticeable when music is playing. I would think an headphone below 32 ohm and high sensitivity would be unsuitable with the Vali, unless you had an adaptor to raise the impedance as others have suggested.


 
 You want an L-PAD that will attenuate the output of the Amp, not necessarily to raise any impedance. You can use a PAD to match impedances at a loss of signal. Simply adding a series resistor will reduce damping (not good) and if the cans have an impedance frequency curve that gets a bit extreme you could affect the FR.


----------



## UmustBKidn

@Sonido @jaywillin @olor1n @purrin @zilch0md:
  
 Gentlemen, Bravo. Thank you for finally bringing this discussion to where it needs to be. It is the combination of gear that makes (or breaks) a setup. I know this is obvious to the Headphoneus group, but those of us who are less experienced (or are perhaps a fan of Budget-Fi amps) need the comparisons between different cans, different music, etc, to be able to make an intelligent choice as to whether to purchase something or not.
  
 I for one find such discussions invaluable decision making tools. I almost want to bookmark the last few pages, or hope that this thread remains on this sort of track.
  
(Yeah, I know, I've been a sideshow on this thread, but mostly only because my budget has been seriously hosed for a while, and so I am sidelined for a while. Not that my opinion would be worth much.)


----------



## jimmers

> Originally Posted by *UmustBKidn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I know this is obvious to the Headphoneus group, but those of us who are less experienced


 
  
 I think "Headphoneus Supremus" is misleading, I just think it means they've posted here a lot, I was fooled by this at first, thinking they were all experts, and wondering why some seemed to have no idea.
 Of course there are many who are very experienced and knowledgeable and generous enough to share their wisdom and their views, for which I, for one, am grateful.
 Those "Headphoneus Supremus" you mention (and many others) would come into that category, I don't think policy would let me give examples of the other type


----------



## vaibhavp

umustbkidn said:


> @Sonido @jaywillin @olor1n @purrin @zilch0md:
> 
> *Gentlemen, Bravo. Thank you for finally bringing this discussion to where it needs to be.* It is the combination of gear that makes (or breaks) a setup. I know this is obvious to the Headphoneus group, but those of us who are less experienced (or are perhaps a fan of Budget-Fi amps) need the comparisons between different cans, different music, etc, to be able to make an intelligent choice as to whether to purchase something or not.
> 
> ...


 
  
 now the thread is ringing with right kind of discussion. bravo ...


----------



## MattTCG

olor1n said:


> I'm in the cheer-squad for euphony and musical involvement. The HD650 is one of my favourite headphones and I often overlook its deficiencies in favour of engagement. The Vali is firmly in this category IMO. For all the praise, it is NOT the be-all. I have issue with its lack of control in the bass region compared to the Mjolnir. But it IS a very affordable amp with pros that greatly outweigh cons.
> 
> The clarity in the upper registers, the depth of soundstage, the rendition of low-level detail, the liquidity in its transitions and that pleasing reverb like quality - all combine to render a captivating analogue signature, sans the treble edge and glare evident in SS.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've decided to go with the crack for the hd650 as an end game setup. Never to be touched or tampered with. Not that I wont buy other headphones and gear...I will. But after hearing the crack w/sb on the hd650 a few weeks ago, I'm convinced that there is no better pairing out there for my favorite hp. Right now I have the 650 on the Vali and find it's a pretty decent pairing. 
  
*olor1n* ...was the above comments you made your opinion of the Vali and 650?


----------



## olor1n

Matt - my comments were in relation to the HD800, as its pairing with the Vali was the main point of discussion. The aspects I speak of can be heard through the HD650 of course, though they are less pronounced through the less capable Senn - as opposed to the intense HD800 microscope.
  
 I really dig the Vali's synergy with the HD650 but I am more impressed with how well it handles the HD800. If only it had the Mjolnir's width of soundstage, lower frequency extension, control and slam, and its explosive macro dynamics. Maybe that's reserved for a Lyr mk.II or some other Schiity construct. Jason and co. will have my money again when that happens.


----------



## BournePerfect

olor1n said:


> I'm in the cheer-squad for euphony and musical involvement.


 
  
 You need to hear the ZDSE sometime...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 on a Lyr MK.II / Super Vali! and how the Vali manages the HD800.
 Quote:


olor1n said:


>


----------



## grizzlybeast

I wasn't as discerning at first because I didn't initially like how the vali took away some of the bite of my music. But now I can hear the refinement of it and it does smooth things out but in a good way. It makes my music slightly less agressive, a tad more spacious and is an overall improvement. I like it.


----------



## scntfc

Would this amp pair well with Fidelio X1's? Can anyone with this combo comment?


----------



## JHern

Always wanted to try a tube amp like this.
  
 I've asked around some of the hi-fi shops in Tokyo, they never even heard of Schiit.
  
 Would it be worth shipping here from the US? (Keep in mind that shipping US > Japan is ridiculously expensive.)


----------



## UmustBKidn

jhern said:


> Always wanted to try a tube amp like this.
> 
> I've asked around some of the hi-fi shops in Tokyo, they never even heard of Schiit.
> 
> Would it be worth shipping here from the US? (Keep in mind that shipping US > Japan is ridiculously expensive.)


 
  
 That's not surprising at all. I would not expect them to have heard of it.
  
 Well, just think about the bragging rights you'll have, when you own an inexpensive, Made in America headphone amp, with Tubes in it no less, that is equal to or better than anything else in its price range, regardless of where it's made.
  
 Your job, should you choose to accept it, is to buy a Vali and Modi stack, and show those Japanese hi fi shops what American technology is like these days. That may make a few heads turn. I would think that would be worth the price, all by itself


----------



## prsut

I spent 160Euro (includig tax, customs - still less than from electromod) to get Vali to Slovakia (directly from Schiit) which is more than 200$, but it is worth every cent. Smallest piece of schiit, but standing firmly between Oppo-103 and Denon's d2000 !!!


----------



## UmustBKidn

prsut said:


> I spent 160Euro (includig tax, customs - still less than from electromod) to get Vali to Slovakia (directly from Schiit) which is more than 200$, but it is worth every cent. Smallest piece of schiit, but standing firmly between Oppo-103 and Denon's d2000 !!!


----------



## olor1n

bourneperfect said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in the cheer-squad for euphony and musical involvement.
> ...


 
  
 It pains me every time an EC amp pops up for sale and it's not 230v and the seller has limited the sale to their region. I've come close to pulling the trigger on the S7 a few times. Probably a good thing I haven't. The neurosis of rolling 7 tubes would be the end of me.


----------



## MattTCG

olor1n said:


> It pains me every time an EC amp pops up for sale and it's not 230v and the seller has limited the sale to their region. I've come close to pulling the trigger on the S7 a few times. Probably a good thing I haven't. The neurosis of rolling 7 tubes would be the end of me.


 
  
 Tube rolling is a blessing and a curse. I've rolled tubes on a couple of amps and the temptation to try another tube or set is nearly irresistable. I try to research the signature that I'm looking for and buy one set and never look back.


----------



## JHern

In discussions with Schiit technicians about Vali A/C adapters and shipping costs. I want one. However, they don't offer Japan  compatible A/C adapters…probably a deal breaker, I'm not buying a frigging transformer just for this amp.


----------



## Shinnbone

jhern said:


> In discussions with Schiit technicians about Vali A/C adapters and shipping costs. I want one. However, they don't offer Japan  compatible A/C adapters…probably a deal breaker, I'm not buying a frigging transformer just for this amp.


 
  
 Hi JHern, shouldn't something like the below work?
  
 http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/shop/ProductDetail.asp?Item=656%5EAC16V1A%5E%5E
  
 Edit: Of course, the tips need to match, and regulated/unregulated may be another thing to consider. But I thought maybe you can find an adapter you can use in Japan, rather than getting a voltage transformer. Just a thought. Maybe I'm way off.


----------



## roflaly

Just got my Vali in the mail and I'm running into some issues. The left ear is much quieter and has a lot more white noise in it than the right. I understand that there's going to be some white noise with the 598 but I can barely hear any coming from the right side. I've listened to the noise just coming from the Vali by unplugging the RCA cables but it's still a problem. Any idea what I should do?


----------



## MattTCG

I'd go ahead and contact Schiit and let them help you work through the problem. I'm not sure that the Vali will be a good match for the 598's regardless though as they are pretty sensitive.


----------



## grizzlybeast

jhern said:


> Always wanted to try a tube amp like this.
> 
> I've asked around some of the hi-fi shops in Tokyo, they never even heard of Schiit.
> 
> Would it be worth shipping here from the US? (Keep in mind that shipping US > Japan is ridiculously expensive.)


 
 What I would do is solicit in the for sale threads. If the amps coming in that I have surpass the vali in preference I wouldn't mind selling it to you. There are a lot of people like me that want to try out a new product just to see what the hype is about hoping to be blown away. Then they sell it in like new condition. 
  
 The price for shipping this item to you is 42 dollars. so 99 plus 42 dollars is 141 total shipped to you depending if you use paypal or not(always use paypal). That seems like a bargain considering the sonic value of the vali that I find quite good.* You can probably do cheaper as well if you are patient and look around or list a price that you think is fair. *
  
 Create a willing to buy add in the amp section of the for sale/trade threads and specify that you need someone to ship it to you in Japan. even at 150 total its still a good deal. *Don't pay more than 155 total I would say. *
*Schiit products are sturdy built so buying a used one is of little sacrifice. *
  
 As far as the whole trying to show japan what US audio is about... that is a bunch of bologna. Buy something because... after you researched it you find it worthy of your heard earned money and believe it will satisfy you. All else is superficial. This hobby is musical enjoyment first.


----------



## jimmers

shinnbone said:


> Hi JHern, shouldn't something like the below work?
> 
> http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/shop/ProductDetail.asp?Item=656%5EAC16V1A%5E%5E
> 
> Edit: Of course, the tips need to match, and regulated/unregulated is another thing to consider. But I thought maybe you can find an AC/DC adapter you can use in Japan, rather than getting a voltage transformer. Just a thought. Maybe I'm way off.


 

 Looks OK to me (Vali consumption only 8W), being AC regulated/unregulated doesn't come in to it, ask Schiit if specs OK (maybe they'll sell you a Vali without adaptor for a discount 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## K.T.

matttcg said:


> I've decided to go with the crack for the hd650 as an end game setup. Never to be touched or tampered with. Not that I wont buy other headphones and gear...I will. But after hearing the crack w/sb on the hd650 a few weeks ago, I'm convinced that there is no better pairing out there for my favorite hp.
> 
> *olor1n*




I hope you can stick with it. I really do.

I think a lot of us are fools in this one particular way: we find our personal holy grail of listening setups, and then tear it apart to try out other thing that are "just as good or even better." We just can't enjoy the greatness we have in our hands but instead seek other flavors and variations that distract us from listening to what we have in bliss.

Ok, I can only speak for myself, but I have been a big fool in that way.

My favorite stereo setup was a humble Adcom GFP-565 running an AudioNote Kit One 300B amp through AudioQuest Type 4 speaker cable into a pair of modded Klipsch Heresy speakers. I haven't heard anything quite as musical despite years of building, tweaking, and listening. I even worked at audio boutique in Manhattan where we sold multi $K and $10K tube amps and preamps and didn't hear anything that I thought was quite as captivating.

But something burned out in one channel of the Kit One, and instead of fixing it, I moved on to all manners of other gear and projects, none bringing me quite as close to the joy of that humble setup.

So I hope that you listen to your 650/Crack and truly appreciate and enjoy it for a long time!


----------



## BournePerfect

olor1n said:


> It pains me every time an EC amp pops up for sale and it's not 230v and the seller has limited the sale to their region. I've come close to pulling the trigger on the S7 a few times. Probably a good thing I haven't. The neurosis of rolling 7 tubes would be the end of me.


 
  
 That's the nice thing about the Zana-just roll a single cheap driver tube and be done. Also, based on your comments, the ZDSE would be more up your alley than an S7-more euphonic, slightly lush mids, but w/ the speed and technicalities of ss. And since you like the Vali which is a pooooor man's Zana-it just seems like an easy suggestion. Oh-and step up transformers can be had dirt cheap. I actually preferred my ZDSE out of a $100 Tripp Lite isolation transformer than straight from the wall. YMMV.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## olor1n

bourneperfect said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > It pains me every time an EC amp pops up for sale and it's not 230v and the seller has limited the sale to their region. I've come close to pulling the trigger on the S7 a few times. Probably a good thing I haven't. The neurosis of rolling 7 tubes would be the end of me.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah the ZDSE sounds like it fits the bill. The Stratus is another based on purrin's impressions. Impulse will see me owning one of these amps - unless Schiit enters the arena in the foreseeable future.
  
 I should look into a transformer. It'll open up the US market for me. I try to minimise the number of steps in my chain though. Don't really want to fret about the quality of another component in my system.


----------



## nutrifa

Be careful when ordering off the schiit site.  I ordered a Modi and a Vali last week, received a Modi in a Modi box, and a Magni in the Vali box today.  I e-mailed them and hopefully we can work something out.  I am bit upset, since I sold my last amp and dac, and received my new headphones today, and have nothing to play them on.  I won't use the magni since I am planning to hopefully get that exchanged for the Vali that I ordered.  Also I paid for 2-day shipping which doesn't really help, when I don't have the right product.


----------



## x838nwy

nutrifa said:


> Be careful when ordering off the schiit site.  I ordered a Modi and a Vali last week, received a Modi in a Modi box, and a Magni in the Vali box today.  I e-mailed them and hopefully we can work something out.  I am bit upset, since I sold my last amp and dac, and received my new headphones today, and have nothing to play them on.  I won't use the magni since I am planning to hopefully get that exchanged for the Vali that I ordered.  Also I paid for 2-day shipping which doesn't really help, when I don't have the right product.


 
  
 That's kindda weird. May be it's poor lighting in the packing room?


----------



## grizzlybeast

nutrifa said:


> *Be careful when ordering off the schiit site*.  I ordered a Modi and a Vali last week, received a Modi in a Modi box, and a Magni in the Vali box today.  I e-mailed them and hopefully we can work something out.  I am bit upset, since I sold my last amp and dac, and received my new headphones today, and have nothing to play them on.  I won't use the magni since I am planning to hopefully get that exchanged for the Vali that I ordered.  Also I paid for 2-day shipping which doesn't really help, when I don't have the right product.


 
 I would order confidently. Things happen and every company messes up sometimes. I am sure they will cover all expenses. ask them is there anything they can do to make up for it... free cable or something.


----------



## nutrifa

grizzlybeast said:


> I would order confidently. Things happen and every company messes up sometimes. I am sure they will cover all expenses. ask them is there anything they can do to make up for it... free cable or something.


 
 I guess we will have to see how they handle it, either way I'm pretty upset, was looking forward to this all day long, ordered new headphones an amp and a dac.  I cannot use the headphones cause I can't use the Magni cause I will hopefully be able to exchange it.  Even if I can exchange it, I might have to pay for shipping, and its going to take a while to get it back to them and get the right product.  That is if they even believe me.  It came in a vali box, with a vali manual, and its a Magni.  I also have a power supply for it, but who knows it if its for a magni or vali.  I have never dealt with this company outside of this one occurrence, hopefully they are able to get this fixed.


----------



## Rudiger

nutrifa said:


> I guess we will have to see how they handle it, either way I'm pretty upset, was looking forward to this all day long, ordered new headphones an amp and a dac.  I cannot use the headphones cause I can't use the Magni cause I will hopefully be able to exchange it.  Even if I can exchange it, I might have to pay for shipping, and its going to take a while to get it back to them and get the right product.  That is if they even believe me.  It came in a vali box, with a vali manual, and its a Magni. * I also have a power supply for it, but who knows it if its for a magni or vali.*  I have never dealt with this company outside of this one occurrence, hopefully they are able to get this fixed.


 
 It is the same.


----------



## UmustBKidn

nutrifa said:


> I guess we will have to see how they handle it, either way I'm pretty upset, was looking forward to this all day long, ordered new headphones an amp and a dac.  I cannot use the headphones cause I can't use the Magni cause I will hopefully be able to exchange it.  Even if I can exchange it, I might have to pay for shipping, and its going to take a while to get it back to them and get the right product.  That is if they even believe me.  It came in a vali box, with a vali manual, and its a Magni.  I also have a power supply for it, but who knows it if its for a magni or vali.  I have never dealt with this company outside of this one occurrence, hopefully they are able to get this fixed.


 
  
 Sorry to hear about that bro. It is extremely rare for anything to go wrong, and when it does, Jason is on top of whatever it is in a big hurry. If nothing else, Schiit has earned a reputation with the folks on Head-Fi of always providing excellent customer service. I can understand why you'd be disappointed. I would be too. If it's any consolation, I think the rest of us who've had nothing but excellent service from Schiit would be the first to tell you how great they are in this respect. Ask anyone in this forum. Truly.


----------



## New Yorker

nutrifa said:


> I guess we will have to see how they handle it, either way I'm pretty upset, was looking forward to this all day long, ordered new headphones an amp and a dac.  I cannot use the headphones cause I can't use the Magni cause I will hopefully be able to exchange it.  Even if I can exchange it, I might have to pay for shipping, and its going to take a while to get it back to them and get the right product.  That is if they even believe me.  It came in a vali box, with a vali manual, and its a Magni.  I also have a power supply for it, but who knows it if its for a magni or vali.  I have never dealt with this company outside of this one occurrence, hopefully they are able to get this fixed.


Simple shipping mistake; of course you can exchange it at, I'm sure, no expense to you. And I'm sure there's no issue with you "trying" the Magni while you have it. So chill.


----------



## x838nwy

Actually, I'd be surprised if order from the Schiit site is any worse than form anywhere else. AFAIK, they assemble the stuff themselves so this is where every amp is boxed so wherever you order from, it will come from the same place. I'm sure they'll sort you out. Their customer service is pretty good. And hopefully they'll stop trying to pack things blindfolded.


----------



## Shinnbone

I placed an order for a Vali last Wed. FedEx tracking page showed Tue., 1/28 as the delivery date from the get-go.
  
 Yesterday morning, the page showed "on FedEx truck for delivery." I had brought a 3.5mm to RCA cable so I can at least try the Vali from the computer or phone at work.
  
 Then it started snowing. Y'all probably saw what happened in ATL and most of Southeast US.
  
 FedEx aborted delivery. Guys at the shipping dept. at work told me UPS and FedEx told their drivers to return soon after it started snowing.
  
 But having to wait a couple of more days for the Vali is nothing compared to the commute home last night. I can make it home in 30 min. on a good day, and in an hour in heavy traffic. It took me over 5 hours last night. When I went to bed at 1 a.m., TV news were showing people still stuck in traffic. So compared to them, I was relatively lucky.
  
 Hope everyone made it home safe. All y'all in this neck o' the woods, stay warm!


----------



## MattTCG

Another Atlantan here. It took my wife and kids about 8 hours to get home yesterday. There are people who never made it home who are still in their cars since yesterday!!


----------



## StanD

How many inches did y'all Johnny Rebs get?


----------



## sling5s

I keep reading people struggling between Magni and Vali.  It's like comparing a budget amp (modi) to a TOTL amp (vali).  If ringing is the issue, it's 30 seconds of ringing, which I find charming, than it's musical bliss. 
 If hiss because of low impedance or sensitive headphones, just get an impedance adaptor.  Really, the Vali is worth it.  Again, why settle for a budget sounding amp when you can get a TOTL amp for budget price. 
  
 And please something more than a Modi dac.  It just does not do justice.


----------



## tomb

stand said:


> How many inches did y'all Johnny Rebs get?


 

 Probably less than an inch in the NE part of the city, maybe 2-3 inches elsewhere.
  
 Many people (Yanks?) don't understand Atlanta, however:

Hills, ... lots of them, everywhere.
Temperatures rarely get below freezing.  When they do, the roads stay warmer until the last minute (after sundown), then the wet and slush freezes over hard, into solid ice.
People from out of state (Yanks?) who think they know how to drive in snow, but then don't realize it's ice.
 Everybody's comparing it to 2011.  I don't think so - reminds me of SnowJam '82.  That was a wild one, too - cars/trucks abandoned all over the Interstate for days and days.  It took my wife about 4 hours to get home from work - 1/4 mile away.  I was lucky and was on foot.
  
 (I promised I wouldn't comment anymore on the subject of the thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## StanD

tomb said:


> Probably less than an inch in the NE part of the city, maybe 2-3 inches elsewhere.
> 
> Many people (Yanks?) don't understand Atlanta, however:
> 
> ...


 
 This Yank knows how to drive on ice, like this morning. I used to have a Mustang GT (8 Cylinder RearWheelDrive) and managed to drive that monster on ice. Meantime the people that live in Buffalo or off the Great Lakes laugh at all of us.


----------



## phillyd

shinnbone said:


> I placed an order for a Vali last Wed. FedEx tracking page showed Tue., 1/28 as the delivery date from the get-go.
> 
> Yesterday morning, the page showed "on FedEx truck for delivery." I had brought a 3.5mm to RCA cable so I can at least try the Vali from the computer or phone at work.
> 
> ...




Yeah I had to wait two extra days for my Vali/Modi due to fedex's incompetence.


----------



## JohnBal

stand said:


> This Yank knows how to drive on ice, like this morning. I used to have a Mustang GT (8 Cylinder RearWheelDrive) and managed to drive that monster on ice. Meantime the people that live in Buffalo or off the Great Lakes laugh at all of us.


 
 Driving on ice is no joke. I do laugh when I see cars on video that are just going too fast and start to spin all over and crash into a guard rail. Common sence people!


----------



## tehsprayer

Hi guys, is there any reason to not get the Vali and Modi? I have the choice of getting the Magni and Modi or O2/ODAC. The Vali the best option. I will be using it with the 990-250 ohms and maybe HE-400 in the future.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> This Yank knows how to drive on ice, like this morning. I used to have a Mustang GT (8 Cylinder RearWheelDrive) and managed to drive that monster on ice. Meantime the people that live in Buffalo or off the Great Lakes laugh at all of us.


 
  
  


johnbal said:


> Driving on ice is no joke. I do laugh when I see cars on video that are just going too fast and start to spin all over and crash into a guard rail. Common sence people!


 
 AWD and ABS won't save you on ice. I remember seeing some fool blast past me and my Mustang GT in an ABS equipped AWD upscale Jeep on a solid ice covered road. A drove past him 1/2 mile down the road, the fool didn't make the turn and was only able to stop with help from a tree. I bet you he broke every tube in his amp. I'm sure the ringing in his amp stopped well before the ringing in his head.


----------



## ssrock64

tehsprayer said:


> Hi guys, is there any reason to not get the Vali and Modi? I have the choice of getting the Magni and Modi or O2/ODAC. The Vali the best option. I will be using it with the 990-250 ohms and maybe HE-400 in the future.


 
 I think the Vali would be a better pair with the HE-400, but the O2 might be better with the DT990. I think either way, though, that the ODAC might be a better option than the Modi.


----------



## grizzlybeast

ssrock64 said:


> I think the Vali would be a better pair with the HE-400, but the O2 might be better with the DT990. I think either way, though, that the ODAC might be a better option than the Modi.


 
 +1 on the odac.. modi has a bass roll off. My odac has no problem. Atleast it mad my emotiva sound rolled off. The vali is smoothing out the bass as well. I just remember not being happy with the modi. 
  
 I had the modi with my emotiva mini and it was the weak link.
  
 I am happy with my odac+ vali combo.


----------



## MattTCG

ssrock64 said:


> I think the Vali would be a better pair with the HE-400, but the O2 might be better with the DT990. I think either way, though, that the ODAC might be a better option than the Modi.


 
  
 +1 on the odac over the modi. The odac seems to be able to flesh out detail and maintain a nice natural tone. I never got that from the modi. It was always a little thin  to me.


----------



## tehsprayer

What about the o2 over the vali? If I were to buy one I would like to buy it as a set of o2/odac or vali and odac.


----------



## grizzlybeast

tehsprayer said:


> What about the o2 over the vali? If I were to buy one I would like to buy it as a set of o2/odac or vali and odac.


 
 the headphone you use with it makes the difference.
  
 mention a headphone and what you want to happen to it when you listen and ask from there.


----------



## tehsprayer

grizzlybeast said:


> the headphone you use with it makes the difference.
> 
> mention a headphone and what you want to happen to it when you listen and ask from there.


 
 Sorry, above in other posts I said I am currently using the DT 990 and probably in the future something like the HD 650 or HE-400.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I have owned all of the above hp's but haven't heard the o2. Sorry to make you repost the hp's you will use.
  
 I can say that the vali will do great for the he-400 and pretty good for the 650. the dt990, even though it is somewhat bright I would still use solid state to help its bass out. I can't picture the smooth bass of the vali going well with the airy bass of the dt990 but it may help its timbres or music tones out.  I would picture the he-400 doing great with the vali. 
  
 the o2 was built using the hd650 as a reference so you cant go wrong there. I have used the hd650 with other tubes though and it was nice despite its already smooth nature. I don't think you can lose either way. But if the o2 is as analytical as they say then the he-400 and the o2 may make an unpleasant listen. The he-400 imo can use some tube action for sure... mind you the vali isn't as tube sounding as most tube amps so its like a safe bet. 
  
 Also if you ask anyone else on this thread they will most likely say the vali because it is comparable to other Top Of The Line amps in quality....so they say.. im too poor for those $1k amps so I wont know anytime soon.


----------



## UmustBKidn

tomb said:


> Probably less than an inch in the NE part of the city, maybe 2-3 inches elsewhere.
> 
> Many people (Yanks?) don't understand Atlanta, however:
> 
> ...


 
  
 What is this thing, snow? Ice? Driving in it? Hills? Wha?
  
 Temperatures here in SoCal rarely get below 50 degrees. Heck, it hardly rains, nevermind snow, lol.
 We're about to get mandatory water rationing out here, thanks to a lack of rain for the last few years.
 On the bright side, I guess I don't have to worry about replacing my roof for a while yet.


----------



## PXSS

I got home in 30 minutes =D
Gotta love living in midtown sometimes and no school till next week?

Time for some music and hot chocolate! (Ran out of beer yesterday) Woohoo!
Oh, and it was 2.3 inches in metro atlanta.


tomb said:


> Probably less than an inch in the NE part of the city, maybe 2-3 inches elsewhere.
> 
> Many people (Yanks?) don't understand Atlanta, however:
> 
> ...


----------



## tehsprayer

Well I bought this and the modi, hope it is a good as people are saying.


----------



## Misterrogers

What impedance is your DT990?


----------



## tehsprayer

misterrogers said:


> What impedance is your DT990?


 
 250


----------



## Misterrogers

Well, all subjective variance aside (your hearing, preferences, etc), many find Vali to do a wonderful job of driving 250Ohm and higher Beyers. I use it often with my T90's with great enjoyment.


----------



## LCfiner

Just picked up my Vali from FedEx. I'll be able to hook it up in a couple hours and give it a listen with my HD800 (and RS1i, but I got it mainly for the HD800).
  
 Currently using a Burson HA160D, which I happen to think sounds pretty good with the HD800. It's not bright or tizzy at all. But it lacks in creating a massive soundstage and in representing subtle definition in bass notes. I'll be curious how the Vali pairs with the 160D DAC.
  
 And I bought a used Emotiva DC-1 and that should arrive next week. So i'll have some fun comparing the Vali on the Burson DAC, the Vali on the DC-1 DAC and the Burson/ DC-1 internal amps, as well. Should be a fun week


----------



## grizzlybeast

looking forward to your impressions


----------



## Rudiger

+1, looking forward too !


----------



## phillyd

HE-300's are in and paired with the Schiit Vali+Modi they sound great. Vocals are very forward and the sound stage is much wider than expected.


----------



## MattTCG

I was finally brave enough to turn the Vali to 9:00 on the pot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Better hang on...


----------



## grizzlybeast

matttcg said:


> I was finally brave enough to turn the Vali to 9:00 on the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 what...
 I need to get this dial number thing straight what does nine look like. To me its barely on at 9oclock.. The knob starts at 7.
  
 if 9 is 3 o'clock then i get it.
  is this what it means
  
 if that is loud for the hd650 then it has more than enough power for the ZMF Mod. Hey and after all the alpha dogs and mad dogs you stuck with the 650 after all. That is my fav for a reason. The drums and transient response is something else.
  
 after all this time here that is something i chose to ignore because all the volume knobs are so different.


----------



## AnalogSavior

matttcg said:


> I was finally brave enough to turn the Vali to 9:00 on the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 lol.  I've had my Vali for about a week now, and I rarely turn it up past 9:00.  Things can get loud fast.


----------



## grizzlybeast

my yamahas take 9 without distorting but man that is wayyyyyy to feaking loud on those!


----------



## MattTCG

Hd650. 9:00 is quite loud to my ears. I mean this:


----------



## grizzlybeast

matttcg said:


> Hd650. 9:00 is quite loud to my ears. I mean this:


 
 what... dude that is barely on.... 7 is off..^that is normal listening level for my yamahas.. then i turn it down to 8 for a long session.. that must be silent to me on the hd650.
  
 This is all from saying that 7 is silent. I can still hear harmonics at 9.  don't make me ask how old you are... lol j/p
  
 I will admit that it gets loud pretty fast and at 10 these 37 ohms are pretty loud... but i put it at 9 on easier to drive headphones and my son and wife say its just a tiny bit loud and they don't listen to music that much.... 
  
 I want your hearing abilities... I would save money.


----------



## MattTCG

I was worried about my hearing...tinnitus problems. So I went to see the ENT and the first thing that he had me do was get tested by the audiologist. She said that she had been administering hearing test for 15 years and that my hearing was top five best she had ever seen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in my 40's.


----------



## grizzlybeast

matttcg said:


> I was worried about my hearing...tinnitus problems. So I went to see the ENT and the first thing that he had me do was get tested by the audiologist. She said that she had been administering hearing test for *15 years and that my hearing was top five best she had ever seen.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 that explains it... you lucky guy you..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am probably average and after head-fi less than average now. 
  
 hopefully you remember that when someone asks you if an amp is loud enough or if a headphone is hard to drive.


----------



## LCfiner

So I’ve been running the Vali for the past 6 hours or so, listening to music for around 2 hours or so here and there and mixing it up with the Burson HA160D internal amp. All comments are with the HD800.
  
 Keep in mind that I am seemingly one of the few remaining head-fi members who _doesn’t_ think the HA160D is a piece of crap, lol (and has tried out enough quality gear to be able to have a point of comparison). There’s been a big backlash against the original 160 series around these parts and I don’t get it, honestly. It has some faults but  sometimes I like more bottom heavy, beefy sound. It does not sound thin or piercing with the HD800 to me. The HD800 treble is not an issue at all on the HA160D. the issue is congested soundstage and a little lack of clarity, imo.
  
 So, note that it's the same 160D DAC for both amps, internal Burson amp and Vali. pre outs into the Vali.
  
 First of all, I would not call the differences huge but I think my definition of a huge change is something that’s only possible by changing headphones or speakers. others here might call it big, I don’t know.
  
 first impression:
  
 Vali is cleaner with less mid bass smearing to my ears. There seems to be a larger, more precise soundstage in part due to this cleaner bottom end. I don’t notice it on every song I listen to since not every song will have lots of, say, rapid beating drums or overlapping bass guitars. but the few I’ve heard so far that do sound more clear on the Vali to me.
  
 It’s a subtle improvement to my ears. maybe for others it would be something more drastic - for me it’s subtle. but nice.
  
 And for some songs with really strong vocals, the Vali is a little less grainy. a little more smooth. I’m less confident about this comment but I think I hear the difference now and then. grain of salt...
  
 Overall, I think the sound is really good. Good bottom end with some punch, no piercing treble (or, at least, no excessive emphasis of the HD800s existing elevated treble) impressive soundstage and imaging, good tone and clarity. I like it.
  
 So, yeah, first impressions are quite good for the Vali. I can’t wait to try it out with the Emotiva DC-1 next week. Historically, I’ve always been less capable of detecting DAC differences than Amp differences so don’t expect any future impressions to differ radically but, hey, you never know.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Nice impressions. Thanks for sharing them. Seems about spot on to me. I haven't heard any of the Burson though.


----------



## grizzlybeast

besides the bottom end punch part....I agree. Especially the smooth and less grain comment. 
  
 Edit: I haven't heard the burson either but just from my experience with this it is taking away some of the bass punch on the yamaha.


----------



## LCfiner

matttcg said:


> ^^ Nice impressions. Thanks for sharing them. Seems about spot on to me. I haven't heard any of the Burson though.


 
  
 thanks!
  
 I got to make one quick update. listening to some Rodrigo Y Gabriela. There’s a bit on the song “Diem” from the album Re-Foc that stood out for me.
  
 There’s a section at around 3:10 into the song (section lasts around 15 seconds) that sounds dull and a little blunted on the Burson but quick and more lively on the Vali.
  
 Seems there’s more attack, more speed and definition (this helps add to  sense of depth, too) on the Vali and it’s a large enough difference that I couldn’t qualify it as subtle. I heard it just now, went back a couple times and went “huh, that _was_ fairly noticeable."
  
 Good stuff with this Vali. Actually pretty remarkable for $120. (although with shipping and duties, it was $180 to get it into Canada. grumble. grumble)


----------



## Sonido

Finally got back home from work after being trapped since Tuesday from the snow. Hit a curb on my way out of the parking lot and messed up the alignment, so all ABS, traction control, stability control systems were shot, and I drive a RWD so couldn't get anywhere. Ended up staying over at a coworker's place for a few days. I guess I should be lucky that the damage seemed to be isolated to a single control arm, and cost me $200 to replace it including labor. Funny how if more stuff like tie rod, strut, axle got messed up, it would have been around $1000, but that's still less than some headphones. Gonna buy some snow chains and stick it in the trunk. Next time it snows, I'll be laughing my way up and down the hills.


----------



## MickeyVee

Alway have them ship via USPS to Canada.. I missed out on the duties/taxes.. the box was just left on my doorstep. Also ordered mine on day 1 when the exchange rate was better.
 Maybe Montreal is different
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Quote:


lcfiner said:


> Good stuff with this Vali. Actually pretty remarkable for $120. (although with shipping and duties, it was $180 to get it into Canada. grumble. grumble)


----------



## sling5s

Vali sounds amazing with my Grado Magnum and JH13 (with impedance adaptor) but my LCD-2 still sounds better out of solid state.  Not that the LCD-2 doesn't sound good out of the Vali.  The Vali is still better than the Violetric 200 (on all headphones, including LCD-2) but the LCD-2 still sounds better out of my Pioneer SX-737.  So far, no other dedicated headphone amp (mid fi and few TOTL amps I've tried) has been able to dethrone the SX-737.


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm still breaking in my newly acquired Grado PS500 and I think I've found the magic setup.  Listening to them right now via a Dragonfly feeding the Vali.  Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side is on as I'm typing this.. the double bass come though clean and I can hear the woody reverb, vocals are great, lists of detail and sax at the end is dynamic without any trace of sibilance.  Also have the Laymen Twist version of Walk on the Wild Side.. great bass and tons of fun! Definitely a great listen all around.  Cudos to Schiit as the Vali seems to be a great all around amp.


----------



## nicdub

mickeyvee said:


> I'm still breaking in my newly acquired Grado PS500 and I think I've found the magic setup.  Listening to them right now via a Dragonfly feeding the Vali.  Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side is on as I'm typing this.. the double bass come though clean and I can hear the woody reverb, vocals are great, lists of detail and sax at the end is dynamic without any trace of sibilance.  Also have the Laymen Twist version of Walk on the Wild Side.. great bass and tons of fun! Definitely a great listen all around.  Cuds to Schiit as the Vali seems to be a great all around amp.


 
 I've found the dragonfly to be a nice match with vali also, wish I could hear it with those grados.


----------



## fenderf4i

mickeyvee said:


> I'm still breaking in my newly acquired Grado PS500 and I think I've found the magic setup.




Crap. Why did you have to go and say something like that. Now I have to try one!


----------



## LCfiner

Oh yeah, the RS1i with the Vali works for me, too. But keep in mind I have flats on the RS1i right now. this makes it sound thicker and less sibilant for me.
  
 Vali helps open up the soundstage a bit and clear things up slightly versus the Burson. So the soundstage with flats isn't quite as compressed as before (it's still not large by any stretch).


----------



## MickeyVee

You should give it a try.. it does pair quite nicely with the PS500.
 Quote:


fenderf4i said:


> Crap. Why did you have to go and say something like that. Now I have to try one!


----------



## sling5s

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Grado Magnums with Flats with Vali.  Nice synergy.


----------



## sling5s

lcfiner said:


> Oh yeah, the RS1i with the Vali works for me, too. But keep in mind I have flats on the RS1i right now. this makes it sound thicker and less sibilant for me.
> 
> Vali helps open up the soundstage a bit and clear things up slightly versus the Burson. So the soundstage with flats isn't quite as compressed as before (it's still not large by any stretch).


 
  +1 Grado Magnum with Flats


----------



## boomslang06

hey guys i gotta quick question, i received my Vali  2 days ago it worked great on day 1, the next day it just stops producing any sound, i checked and double checked all connections nothing, hooked up my old amp and it works, so its not my DAC, hooked Vali back up  still doesnt work. the lights are on, i can see the red glow from the tubes but no sound, so i lightly tapped on top of it and it starts working.  Had to do the same thing this morning.  Any body had the same experience? I'm gonna call them on Monday and setup an RMA.


----------



## fenderf4i

Sounds like a possible bad solder or something like that. They will take care of it!


----------



## grizzlybeast

grizzlybeast said:


> besides the bottom end punch part....I agree. Especially the smooth and less grain comment.
> 
> Edit: I haven't heard the burson either but just from my experience with this it is taking away some of the bass punch on the yamaha.




Man I actually think it's the ODAC the Vali bass is fine through nuforce icon dac DAC section


----------



## SourceGuy

The VALI SHOWED UP T0day. It's my favorite hp amp. Ive only used a Belari ha-540 and dragonfly so not much to compare it to. I've never heard my q-701's sing like this.


----------



## SourceGuy

The vali is being run with MacBook & pure music > vlink 192 > gungnir. This whole headphone thing is finally starting to make sense.


----------



## sonic2911

did anyone try HE-300 with Vali?


----------



## vaibhavp

did anyone try akg k550 with vali?


----------



## grizzlybeast

as far as the above concern I am finding that the vali is more revealing of the source you have it plugged into. It only smooths it out slightly and boosts it and opens it up a bit. 
  
 it plays it safe and will match well with the above.


----------



## Transformatron

sonic2911 said:


> did anyone try HE-300 with Vali?



All day, everyday. Sounds great, I can't use them without an amp now. They sound lifeless.


----------



## cebuboy

Hello guys, listening to the Vali/Modi combo for some time already, could not believe it made the dt1350 sound fantastic.
  
 I just got a question to people who experienced *tube erection* problems. After reading here, I just did what most people here did, pushed them back to the board. Unfortunately for me, the adhesive pads just don't like to stick on the board and the tubes will rise again. Well, sound is the same great sound, except for the increased sensitivity of the microphonics... I have to listen to it in a very still manner to avoid it ringing. 
  
 Oh and is it normal for it to get pretty hot?


----------



## elwappo99

I was one of the first purchasers of the Vali, and I haven't had any issues with it until tonight. Couldn't figure out why after 3 minutes of listening I still got ringing and then it clicked. Sure enough, tube erection problem here as well. Was an easy fix for me. 
  
 Oddly enough with the Vali, after I ordered and and started using it, I didn't post much in this thread. It just worked, was very easy, and sounds really incredible. Feel like there just isn't much to discuss


----------



## jimmers

cebuboy said:


> I just got a question to people who experienced *tube erection* problems. After reading here, I just did what most people here did, pushed them back to the board. Unfortunately for me, the adhesive pads just don't like to stick on the board and the tubes will rise again.


 
 I think now those with unwelcome erections carefully bend the tube leads so the tubes will lay flatter and not put as much stress on the adhesive, I believe this is standard in the plant now.


----------



## StanD

cebuboy said:


> Hello guys, listening to the Vali/Modi combo for some time already, could not believe it made the dt1350 sound fantastic.
> 
> I just got a question to people who experienced *tube erection* problems. After reading here, I just did what most people here did, pushed them back to the board. Unfortunately for me, the adhesive pads just don't like to stick on the board and the tubes will rise again. Well, sound is the same great sound, except for the increased sensitivity of the microphonics... I have to listen to it in a very still manner to avoid it ringing.
> 
> Oh and is it normal for it to get pretty hot?


 
 Mine gets more than warm. My Asgard 2, now that gets hot,
 Yours doesn't get so hot that you can't touch it. Right?


----------



## cebuboy

stand said:


> Mine gets more than warm. My Asgard 2, now that gets hot,
> Yours doesn't get so hot that you can't touch it. Right?


 

 I can still touch it, but its uncomfortably hot, not burning hot though... Aside from the erections, I like this amp... Will look for a way to lessen the ringing...


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Mine gets more than warm. My Asgard 2, now that gets hot,
> Yours doesn't get so hot that you can't touch it. Right?


 
  
  


cebuboy said:


> I can still touch it, but its uncomfortably hot, not burning hot though... Aside from the erections, I like this amp... Will look for a way to lessen the ringing...


 
 What's the serial number on the back of your unit? It's on the sticker next to the power switch.


----------



## cebuboy

stand said:


> What's the serial number on the back of your unit? It's on the sticker next to the power switch.


 
 It says 000671, so I guess its already the production unit?


----------



## StanD

cebuboy said:


> It says 000671, so I guess its already the production unit?


 
 So it's not one of the early units. That means the leads of the tubes should be bent near the board so that there shouldn't be any spring force that pulls the tubes way from the board. You might want to email Schitt and see if they can help you.


----------



## NinjaHamster

cebuboy said:


> Hello guys, listening to the Vali/Modi combo for some time already, could not believe it made the dt1350 sound fantastic.
> 
> I just got a question to people who experienced *tube erection* problems. After reading here, I just did what most people here did, pushed them back to the board. Unfortunately for me, the adhesive pads just don't like to stick on the board and the tubes will rise again. Well, sound is the same great sound, except for the increased sensitivity of the microphonics... I have to listen to it in a very still manner to avoid it ringing.
> 
> Oh and is it normal for it to get pretty hot?


 
 I keep getting messages about pills to help me keep it up ... where's the anti-Ciallis to help with the Vali ?  I want increased sensitivity with flaccidity.


----------



## phillyd

sonic2911 said:


> did anyone try HE-300 with Vali?




I just got my HE-300 and they sound amazing with the Vali. They have great synergy together.

Bass is juicy, low-mids are expectedly emphasized, upper-mids are a bit recessed, treble is surprisingly present. I'm using a Modi and Vali.

Sounds great on all genres, though I do like warm sound a lot.


----------



## BenEnglish

sonic2911 said:


> did anyone try HE-300 with Vali?


 

 My setup is Loki/Vali/HE-300.  I like it very, very much.  I got a ringer (a really bad ringer, unit #209) but other than that my evaluation of this combo is exactly the same as phillyd, immediately above.


----------



## kothganesh

New to this thread. Just got my Vali, unplugged my Lyr and plugged the Vali into my Bifrost. My reaction: *Listen, I have shamelessly copied Purrin's reaction:*
  
*"Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Holy Schiit fantastic. This is tubes done right................." (*Purrin, hope you don't mind...if you do, my apologies but your reaction spurred me to buy this amp) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There are no new words to add. Except to say that I have probably replaced the Lyr with this tiny beast.


----------



## saer

kothganesh said:


> There are no new words to add. Except to say that I have probably replaced the Lyr with this tiny beast.


 
  
 Are you actually serious ? Does anyone else feel the Vali is better than the Lyr ?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The Vali is 'as delivered' where as the Lyr needs new tubes to really shine.


----------



## kothganesh

nic rhodes said:


> The Vali is 'as delivered' where as the Lyr needs new tubes to really shine.


 
 That's just it. I had to go through three iterations before i got the right tubes for my Lyr. Now I grant you that this may be an instantaneous reaction to hearing this amp but *IMO, *the quality of music/dollar delivered makes this a better product. I know I am opening a can of worms with that phrase. FWIW, I am using the HE 500 (with Jergpads by Modulor) and this little thing drives it effortlessly. I have to test it with my Audez'e later. I may have to retract my statement but that's OK. Either way, Schiit's got it right


----------



## grizzlybeast

the schiit vali is pretty good man. I just wrote a little review on why I think so.
 but the opinion may be controversial.


----------



## kcazbarach

Ordered mine two days ago. Will receive it by wed or thursday. Im pretty excited. Havent heard tube amps


----------



## StanD

kothganesh said:


> That's just it. I had to go through three iterations before i got the right tubes for my Lyr. Now I grant you that this may be an instantaneous reaction to hearing this amp but *IMO, *the quality of music/dollar delivered makes this a better product. I know I am opening a can of worms with that phrase. FWIW, I am using the HE 500 (with Jergpads by Modulor) and this little thing drives it effortlessly. I have to test it with my Audez'e later. I may have to retract my statement but that's OK. Either way, Schiit's got it right


 
 It can drive HE-500's but not effortlessly, you must be listening at low to moderate volumes.. The Asgard 2 can drive the HE-500's effortlessly. I have both amps and the HE-500's.


----------



## LCfiner

Just checking in after a couple more days with the HD800 and the Vali.
  
 Still love the combo. I think it's great.
  
 last night I added the Emotiva DC-1 into the equation. I didn't do much back and forth testing with the Burson 160D output as I was tired but I did notice a further slight increase in soundstage, and slight reduction in midbass heaviness. I can't really get into more detail than that without more listening time.
  
 The DC-1 headphone out, by itself, can highlight the treble response in the HD800 and sibilant tracks can sound _really _sibilant. maybe it's more accurate, maybe it's exaggerated. no idea. I know that it's much more pleasant to listen to potentially sibilant tracks with the Vali hooked up tot he DC-1 line output. 
  
 don't get me wrong, it's not glossing over too much -- really excessive sibilance in a recording will still come through but it's not as sharp and disturbing as it is from the DC-1 headphone output. The Burson headphone out tends to blunt sibilance too, but this comes at the expense of reduced soundstage and a more blurry bottom end.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I had two amps that had 2watts and none of them drove the he500 effortlessly but decently. The asgard isnt considered to drive the he500 effortlessly but barely satisfactorily.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> It can drive HE-500's but not effortlessly, you must be listening at low to moderate volumes.. The Asgard 2 can drive the HE-500's effortlessly. I have both amps and the HE-500's.



Fair enough. I did not see a need to turn the pot past 9, sometimes 10 for very satisfying music.


----------



## StanD

grizzlybeast said:


> I had two amps that had 2watts and none of them drove the he500 effortlessly but decently. The asgard isnt considered to drive the he500 effortlessly but barely satisfactorily.


 
 Really. 2 Watts will drive the HE-500's above the threshold of pain. 1 Watt will just barely reach the threshold of pain. Nobody listens anywhere near those figures without getting hearing impaired. I can listen quite loudly, not experience any distortion and the sound is excellent.
 Were you referring to the old Asgard?
 The Asgard 2 is an excellent design where it's low distortion doesn't come from gobs of negative feedback but from a careful design using discrete components, not opamps. This is not the easy way to design a headphone amp.


----------



## Dionysus

I have been watching this thread for quit a bit, so many positive comment, well I bit and just pulled the trigger on a Vali/Modi minutes ago looking forward to some long listening sessions this weekend.
 I have never had an opportunity to listen to a tube amp and although its a hybrid this would be a first, again looking forward and hoping to get the same type of enjoyment from the combo.


----------



## grizzlybeast

stand said:


> Really. 2 Watts will drive the HE-500's above the threshold of pain. 1 Watt will just barely reach the threshold of pain. Nobody listens anywhere near those figures without getting hearing impaired. I can listen quite loudly, not experience any distortion and the sound is excellent.
> Were you referring to the old Asgard?
> The Asgard 2 is an excellent design where it's low distortion doesn't come from gobs of negative feedback but from a careful design using discrete components, not opamps. This is not the easy way to design a headphone amp.


 
 dont really feel like getting into this but its not always about volume... and I firmly disagree. That is why you never hear the asgard 2 as a recommendation for the he500.


----------



## elwappo99

grizzlybeast said:


> I had two amps that had 2watts and none of them drove the he500 effortlessly but decently. The asgard isnt considered to drive the he500 effortlessly but barely satisfactorily.


 
  
 Really 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 what amps?


----------



## jexby

grizzlybeast said:


> dont really feel like getting into this but its not always about volume... and I firmly disagree. That is why you never hear the asgard 2 as a recommendation for the he500.


 
  
 Don't get me wrong here, have a Lyr with good tubes + HE-500 myself, and no longer have an A2.
  
 but see my query here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1380#post_10028264
  
 I've yet to see one person reply and EXPLAIN why the Lyr *power levels* are the reason delivering increased HE-500 sound quality.
 (with respect to the HE-500s 38ohm, 89 SPL dB/mW)
  
 I can barely listen to music over 10 on the volume pot, and all that Lyr head room/energy just "sits there" magically making it sound better by "tapping into" some electrical request automagically?
 seriously would like to understand this more beyond a generalized "great synergy".
 thanks for the education,


----------



## grizzlybeast

elwappo99 said:


>


 
 Audio-GD NFB 12
 Audio-GD NFB 11.32
  
*both 1800mW/50 ohm **They got loud enough and maybe me saying barely satisfactorily was an exaggeration in hindsight*





 and I apologize* but I never felt like it opened up with them. I will humble myself to that error on my part. Those did decently.*
  
  I always wanted to try it with the emotiva I had but never had them at the same time. From that it is hard to imagine 1w being enough to do it *effortlessly*. Maybe loud enough but not effortlessly so let me put it better.. I will quote someone with more experience here and I would agree. 
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/623645/anyone-have-experience-with-the-schiit-asgard-and-the-he-500#post_8628644
_from malveaux_
  
_Heya,_
  
_"I have that pair (as well as Lyr & Bifrost). I've tested my HE-500 out of a lot of setups. It does need power. The Asgard outputs about 1 watt to the HE-500's 38ohms. So it just meets it's bare minimum requirement of 1 watt. It actually sounds pretty good too. I find the Lyr outputs more warmth and the HE-500 seems to come alive more and has better sub-bass presence with the Lyr compared to the Asgard. But the Asgard can run the HE-500 enough to enjoy it until you can get something with more omph. I've found that basically you need about 2 watts for the HE-500 to spread it's wings. After that it seems to stop changing from just power alone, at least in my experience. It definitely doesn't need 6 watts for example, but it just seems to need a touch more than 1 watt. A good option for you could be to potentially change the Asgard up for a NFB 12.1 for something that does 2+ watts into 38ohms for an HE-500. Sound wise, I find the Asgard to be pretty clean, but maybe a touch bright (compared to the Lyr which just seems more warm). It's a good match for the HE-500 because it's pretty neutral/warm, not really bright like it's big cousin. I find most headphones match well with Schiit amps in general, they're pretty nice and are not overly bright nor warm. I've run everything in my inventory from the Asgard without issue. It's a solid performance amp."_
  
 My gripe is basically using the word *effortlessly* when saying that the asgard 2 is a good match for the he500. I would say slightly sufficient but would choose another option. That being said I definitely believe it would be under powered with the Vali.


----------



## jexby

Thanks, I've seen similar comments and
 Just to clarify a few (malveaux) points in the above:
  
 1.  assuming the reference is to Asgard2 and NOT (original) Asgard.
  
 2.  Asgard 2 does 1W per channel.
  
 3.  "(HE-500) it just seems to need a touch more than 1 watt".
 again, per channel I assume.
  
  
 so the recommendation makes sense vis a vis Asgard 2 only delivering 1W per channel
 and
 HE-500 benefitting from something that does 2+w per channel.
  
 yet based on volume (dB) at the 38ohm, 89 SPL dB/mW
 getting up to deafening 115dB listening levels (398mW by math) or 120dB (1259mW by math)
 shouldn't require that 2+W unless you "always" listen at those dBs?
  
 hence my confusion at what all that Lyr power is "helping" if my volume knob sits at 9a-11am on the dial...
 maybe I just listen too  q u i e t l y?





 
  
 and indeed, the Vali does something between 650mw-550mw per channel, less than the A2.
  
 yet my HiFi M8 on max gain drives the HE-500 to loud volumes (well), and at mid volumes sounds very close to my ConceroHD+ Lyr set up.   Jude has said the M8 provides "enough power" for the HE-500s.
 alas, don't know the mW output of the M8 at max gain switch tho.... (awaiting CEntrance reply)


----------



## grizzlybeast

jexby said:


> Thanks, I've seen similar comments and
> Just to clarify a few (malveaux) points in the above:
> 
> 1.  assuming the reference is to Asgard2 and NOT (original) Asgard.
> ...


 
 in the end bro if you are satisfied that is all that matters. The thing about the vali that is awesome despite its power is its quality. amps that are more powerful wont touch its quality. I do not understand they myth either. But from my experience I feel that it never opened up or spread its wings enough and had a low ceiling with the power I had available.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

I have a Vali on the way, as well as a Modi and a set of DT 880s. I've heard this combo has some nice synergy, so I can't wait to try it out! I'll deliver my "impressions from an audio noob" by the end of the week, hopefully (unless this snow storm seriously screws up my delivery dates).


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Really. 2 Watts will drive the HE-500's above the threshold of pain. 1 Watt will just barely reach the threshold of pain. Nobody listens anywhere near those figures without getting hearing impaired. I can listen quite loudly, not experience any distortion and the sound is excellent.
> Were you referring to the old Asgard?
> The Asgard 2 is an excellent design where it's low distortion doesn't come from gobs of negative feedback but from a careful design using discrete components, not opamps. This is not the easy way to design a headphone amp.


 
  
  


grizzlybeast said:


> dont really feel like getting into this but its not always about volume... and I firmly disagree. That is why you never hear the asgard 2 as a recommendation for the he500.


 
 I emailed with Schitt and they specifically recommended it for the HE-500's. I have both items and the sound is superb. Yes it is not all about volume, this amp has very low distortion without relying on negative feedback. The FR is flat. Since these cans are Orthos, damping factor and impedance curves are not problems. And IMO it sounds great.


----------



## antikryst

stand said:


> stand said:
> 
> 
> > Really. 2 Watts will drive the HE-500's above the threshold of pain. 1 Watt will just barely reach the threshold of pain. Nobody listens anywhere near those figures without getting hearing impaired. I can listen quite loudly, not experience any distortion and the sound is excellent.
> ...




Schiit recommends what for the he500? Asgard 2? Vali? 

Currently have the modi and magni with the he500 and I think it's good enough. I want to get another amp and DAC setup and I'm considering the vali and another magni or an asgard 2 with a bifrost. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## StanD

antikryst said:


> Schiit recommends what for the he500? Asgard 2? Vali?
> 
> Currently have the modi and magni with the he500 and I think it's good enough. I want to get another amp and DAC setup and I'm considering the vali and another magni or an asgard 2 with a bifrost.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


 
 They recommended the Asgard 2. I asked what they thought of the Vali and they said, see below:


> Q: Can the Vali adequately drive the Hifiman HE-500s, powerwise?


 A: In our opinion, yes, but it is definitely at the limit of what it can do. If you really want to get to head banging levels, you’ll need more power.


----------



## grizzlybeast

stand said:


> They recommended the Asgard 2. I asked what they thought of the Vali and they said, see below:
> 
> 
> > Q: Can the Vali adequately drive the Hifiman HE-500s, powerwise?
> ...


 
 okay but did you even ask about the schiit lyr?
 if you asked what would be better for the he500 the lyr or asgard they would probably say the lyr.


----------



## roflaly

Are my tubes too sensitive? Clapping and even talking too loudly will cause some ringing even about 3 feet away.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> They recommended the Asgard 2. I asked what they thought of the Vali and they said, see below:
> 
> 
> > Q: Can the Vali adequately drive the Hifiman HE-500s, powerwise?
> ...


 
  
  


grizzlybeast said:


> okay but did you even ask about the schiit lyr?
> if you asked what would be better for the he500 the lyr or asgard they would probably say the lyr.


 
 We're talking about an HE-500 not an HE-6. Exceeding the threshold of pain is overkill. I own the pair, turning up the volume all the way or anywhere near it is asking for damaged hearing. I listen on the loud side and there is so much more to go. The sound quality is superb. The bass is clean and tight. The treble is wonderful, the sound of cymbals and high-hats are correct when that metallic clink and clanks are spot on. You can hear details in all their glory There is nothing more to ask for or to be unhappy about.


----------



## StanD

roflaly said:


> Are my tubes too sensitive? Clapping and even talking too loudly will cause some ringing even about 3 feet away.


 
 Sounds like you need to call for service, that is not normal.


----------



## sling5s

I just plugged my headphone into the Vali, and the music was only coming out on the left side of my headphone.  I wiggled the headphone jack and the sound came out in both.  I wiggled it again and only one side again.
 Wiggled some more and sound came out on both.  The connections must not be good.


----------



## BenEnglish

roflaly said:


> Are my tubes too sensitive? Clapping and even talking too loudly will cause some ringing even about 3 feet away.


 

 Mine's like that.  I was a little surprised the first time I opened a canned soft drink, holding it in my hands about two feet from the amp.  It rang quite clearly through the music I was listening to.  God forbid I should sneeze while I'm listening.
  
 Still, I'm terrible about sending things back and I can't get into my amp without damaging the case because the factory stripped one of the screws when assembling it.  As a result, I've learned to live with it.  I don't actually sneeze, open drinks, or clap my hands while listening very often so I discount those problems.
  
 The only out-of-control ringing problem I have is when I forget and leave my headphones sitting on top of the amp which causes a little ringing to come through the headphones, which vibrates the case, which causes louder ringing, which vibrates the case worse, etc., until the ringing is audible when I enter the room.  In that case, the ringing simply doesn't stop on its own even after I separate the amp and headphones.  I actually have to give the amp a gentle tap with something metal to make it momentarily ring even louder and then settle down.
  
 Now, don't anybody get their knickers in a twist; this is a super-positive post.  Think about it - I like the sound so much, I don't want to take it off my desk long enough to send it back to Schitt.  I'd call that high praise.


----------



## jexby

stand said:


> We're talking about an HE-500 not an HE-6. Exceeding the threshold of pain is overkill. I own the pair, turning up the volume all the way or anywhere near it is asking for damaged hearing. I listen on the loud side and there is so much more to go. The sound quality is superb. The bass is clean and tight. The treble is wonderful, the sound of cymbals and high-hats are correct when that metallic clink and clanks are spot on. You can hear details in all their glory There is nothing more to ask for or to be unhappy about.




Stan,

Please specify which Schiit amp you are referring to with these qualities with the HE-500.
"Own the pair" and previous conflicting Vali and Lyr references do not make it obvious which amp delivers this glory for your ears.
Thanks,


----------



## StanD

jexby said:


> Stan,
> 
> Please specify which Schiit amp you are referring to with these qualities with the HE-500.
> "Own the pair" and previous conflicting Vali and Lyr references do not make it obvious which amp delivers this glory for your ears.
> Thanks,


 
 I own the HE-500, Asgard 2 as well as Vali. The controversy was over the Asgard 2. That Vali can also drive the HE-500's but not loud enough. IMO the Asgard 2 does a great job with the HE-500s. The Vali does a great job with my HD600's, which I am listening to the pair right now.


----------



## elwappo99

> Originally Posted by *grizzlybeast* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Audio-GD NFB 12
> Audio-GD NFB 11.32
> ...


 
  
 Oops, keyboard decided to go on an "enter" spree
  
 Not necessarily trying to "test you" or "call you out". I'm just very interested in how the planar magnetics fair with different amplifiers. I think the Audio-GD units mentioned are particularly interesting because when I first purchased the Emotiva A-100 (I was the first person to hook up headphones to that amplifier) I compared it to the Little Dot MKVI+ and Audio-GD NFB-10SE (which does 6W into 50ohms) using the HE-6. I think my results are very similar to yours, so I won't get into details.
  
 However, on the topic of the Vali, it doesn't necessarily pull the same "slam" into bass or really pull the details out, but it really provides a naturalism in the timber of the midrange, which I don't think I've heard with the HE-500 before.


----------



## jexby

stand said:


> I own the HE-500, Asgard 2 as well as Vali. The controversy was over the Asgard 2. That Vali can also drive the HE-500's but not loud enough. IMO the Asgard 2 does a great job with the HE-500s. The Vali does a great job with my HD600's, which I am listening to the pair right now.




Cheers Stan,
Thanks for the confirm, and I concur about Vali and HD600 being superb- have that myself.
The Vali did have some struggles with HE-500 in my trials as you stated.

Had the A2 for awhile and agree about it's quality with HE-500, although I did bite on a Lyr for that tube sound and flexibility with rolling.
Do agree tho that the Lyr (while awesome) is not a mandatory upgrade over A2 like everyone suggests in the HE-500 thread.

Nice to know some ears hear alike....


----------



## StanD

jexby said:


> Cheers Stan,
> Thanks for the confirm, and I concur about Vali and HD600 being superb- have that myself.
> The Vali did have some struggles with HE-500 in my trials as you stated.
> 
> ...


 
 Often the crowd in a thread starts on something and it takes on a life of it's own. If I hear something for myself, I'm not swayed by the mob.
 The tube amps that I like tend to be very clean, kinda like an SS amp and tend to be on the expensive side. The Vali is a steal.


----------



## x838nwy

And there i was, hoping we'd go back to talking about the ringing again.


----------



## grizzlybeast

stand said:


> We're talking about an HE-500 not an HE-6. Exceeding the threshold of pain is overkill. I own the pair, turning up the volume all the way or anywhere near it is asking for damaged hearing. I listen on the loud side and there is so much more to go. The sound quality is superb. The bass is clean and tight. The treble is wonderful, the sound of cymbals and high-hats are correct when that metallic clink and clanks are spot on. You can hear details in all their glory There is nothing more to ask for or to be unhappy about.


 
 lol I didnt ask what *we* were talking about I asked if you asked them what was better for the he 500 between the asgard and lyr. The he500 is extremely scalable lets put it that way. 
  
 if you are happy then that is all that matters.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Would I be able to use the Vali with a nice set of IEMs? I ask because I have a set of Aurisonics Rockets on preorder that I was wondering if I could use. The specs on the page say they have a 16ohm +/- 10% @ 1kHz impedance and a sensitivity of 105dB at 1mW. So from everything I've read, it sounds like I'd need some kind of impedance adapter, but maybe I'm wrong. If I do need an adapter, could I get some recommendations?


----------



## Snips

Well, I finally ordered the Vali + Uberfrost combo after reading some of the posts here. Been 2 years since I was forced to sell the setup in my signature and leave the audio scene. Having pretty high hopes for the Schiit products, heh.


----------



## StanD

grizzlybeast said:


> lol I didnt ask what *we* were talking about I asked if you asked them what was better for the he 500 between the asgard and lyr. The he500 is extremely scalable lets put it that way.
> 
> if you are happy then that is all that matters.


 
 I prefer a clean sound so I doubt that I'd like adding more HD, even if it's even order. So given a choice, I'd prefer the Asgard 2. IMO scalable is a term often misused to disguise preference.
 I picked up a Vali for Schitt and Giggles. Nice amp. This is a Vali thread, perhaps we can leave the Asgard out of it.


----------



## GBechz

Hey guys, wanted to ask for an opinion. I received my Vali exactly a week ago, and have been very pleased with the overall sound concept, but with one flaw:
  
 There is audible hiss coming from the right channel. I've tried different headphones, source, cables, etc. and have isolated the issue to the Vali. It's very slight, and only really noticeable during very quiet passages or during complete silence. But when I hear it, it bothers me. The left channel is about as quiet as I could expect from tubes and sometimes I feel that it is reasonably clearer than the right. Schiit tech support told me that this is normal for tubes, so my question is, should I exchange for Modi? I had originally planned on Modi given my budget, but then I saw that Vali was expected, and waited out the initial units for revision B. Having not heard Modi for comparison, what will I sacrifice from Vali and is it worth the certainty of solid state?


----------



## sonic2911

gbechz said:


> Hey guys, wanted to ask for an opinion. I received my Vali exactly a week ago, and have been very pleased with the overall sound concept, but with one flaw:
> 
> There is audible hiss coming from the right channel. I've tried different headphones, source, cables, etc. and have isolated the issue to the Vali. It's very slight, and only really noticeable during very quiet passages or during complete silence. But when I hear it, it bothers me. The left channel is about as quiet as I could expect from tubes and sometimes I feel that it is reasonably clearer than the right. Schiit tech support told me that this is normal for tubes, so my question is, should I exchange for Modi? I had originally planned on Modi given my budget, but then I saw that Vali was expected, and waited out the initial units for revision B. Having not heard Modi for comparison, what will I sacrifice from Vali and is it worth the certainty of solid state?


 

 tubes are not your cup of tea


----------



## Honkytime

gbechz said:


> Hey guys, wanted to ask for an opinion. I received my Vali exactly a week ago, and have been very pleased with the overall sound concept, but with one flaw:
> 
> There is audible hiss coming from the right channel. I've tried different headphones, source, cables, etc. and have isolated the issue to the Vali. It's very slight, and only really noticeable during very quiet passages or during complete silence. But when I hear it, it bothers me. The left channel is about as quiet as I could expect from tubes and sometimes I feel that it is reasonably clearer than the right. Schiit tech support told me that this is normal for tubes, so my question is, should I exchange for Modi? I had originally planned on Modi given my budget, but then I saw that Vali was expected, and waited out the initial units for revision B. Having not heard Modi for comparison, what will I sacrifice from Vali and is it worth the certainty of solid state?


 
 I'm assuming that you meant magni, as the modi is a DAC having not used a vali yet i can not give you a comparison but i enjoyed the sound from my magni very much and found it dead quiet. note that there is a minor channel imbalance in the magni at low volumes.


----------



## K.T.

So hard to say. To me the Vali is so much more musical than the Magni. But I can't say what you will like better. The Magni does have a significantly lower noise floor and some people do find it preferable over the Vali. 

The Magni does sound good, just that I like the way the Vali handles the music with my headphones better. So much so that I don't use my Magni any more.

Having said that, if you really want a Magni instead of a Vali, please PM me if you'd like to trade. My Magni is in as new condition and sees no use since I got my Vali. I received it two weeks before I got my Vali, and it literally has less than 10 hours actually listening time on it (plus about 30-40 hours burning in with pink/white noise on repeat).

Both are fine amps, but do have their unique sound.


----------



## kcazbarach

just Wow...
  
 really glad i made this purchase. already enjoying it. in my first 2 hours.


----------



## kcazbarach

schiit's earned a new long time customer........
  
 the synergy with the he 400 really works too. it tames the treble enough that i don't really feel the need to use EQ.
  
  
 as for microphonics? I really don't get much, only when i put my hand on the volume control.  and it disappears very quickly.


----------



## jworl

I received my Vali today! I couldn't wait to use it, so I brought it to work with me.
  
 This is what I'm using currently--
 AudioEngine D1 RCA -> Vali -> Denon D2000
  
 The bass is pretty weak with the Vali/Denon combination, but that's to be expected since the D2000 are 25ohm impedance (if I'm understanding the impedance concept correctly).
  
 The only time I experience microphonics is when the unit is already powered and headphones are plugged into the jack. However, it fades very quickly (less than 10 seconds). I've tried tapping the case and moving it around, and no microphonics are produced so far. Maybe I'm just lucky.
  
 I'm really excited to try Vali with my HD700 headphones tonight!


----------



## jimmers

jworl said:


> The bass is pretty weak with the Vali/Denon combination, but that's to be expected since the D2000 are 25ohm impedance (if I'm understanding the impedance concept correctly).


 
 According to output impedance (Schiit specs) effects, with D2000 impedance curve (Innerfidelity), all that should be happening is a little extra low bass around 20-30Hz. (?)


----------



## jworl

jimmers said:


> According to output impedance (Schiit specs) effects, with D2000 impedance curve (Innerfidelity), all that should be happening is a little extra low bass around 20-30Hz. (?)


 

 Hmmm. interesting. Well, that has not been my experience. When I use my Asgard or the AudioEngine D1 built-in amp, bass is stronger.
  
 Guess I'll see how the HD700s do with the Vali tonight.


----------



## StanD

jimmers said:


> According to output impedance (Schiit specs) effects, with D2000 impedance curve (Innerfidelity), all that should be happening is a little extra low bass around 20-30Hz. (?)


 
 You probably won't notice it, unless you want to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The difference between the impedances of the Denons and the 6.5 Ohm Vali output impedance isn't much and the frequencies that are affected are not that prevalent in most music.


----------



## StanD

jworl said:


> Hmmm. interesting. Well, that has not been my experience. When I use my Asgard or the AudioEngine D1 built-in amp, bass is stronger.
> 
> Guess I'll see how the HD700s do with the Vali tonight.


 
 I have a feeling that it'll work out nicely. The HD700's are reasonably sensitive.


----------



## Sonido

jworl said:


> Hmmm. interesting. Well, that has not been my experience. When I use my Asgard or the AudioEngine D1 built-in amp, bass is stronger.
> 
> Guess I'll see how the HD700s do with the Vali tonight.


 

 The HD700 has a full-bodied, dark-leaning, and slightly veiled sound so I think it would pair very well with the Vali since the Vali gives a crisp and light sound signature.


----------



## Dionysus

We'll everything is connected, and my first out of the box impression is damn these guys are small. I decided that before I plugged in that I would allow the setup to get warmed up before I sit to listen. 
After that initial warm up an hour or so later I plugged the HD700 in, waiting to get that much spoken of ringing, to my surprise there was none, and I mean none, surprise!

The setup is small next to the Asus E1 as you can see in the pic below, I decided to put the little combo side by side to the E1 so I could get a little A/B action. The Vali/Modi combo after an hour plus of listening to my ears on tracks familiar to me are good not great. I think it has more to do with the Modi's DAC than the Vali to be honest.

 Once I plug the Vali into the E1 DAC the sound on the Vali was much better MORE open, lots more detail and less congested, and it also added a little more warmth to the treble taming it a tad. I will wait for at least another 100 hours or so before I make and form my final opinion, but if I decided right now I would keep the Vali I think the Vali on its own holds up well next to the E1 at 1/6th the cost and I may end up returning the Modi, well that's all for now.


----------



## grizzlybeast

dionysus said:


> We'll everything is connected, and my first out of the box impression is damn these guys are small. I decided that before I plugged in that I would allow the setup to get warmed up before I sit to listen.
> After that initial warm up an hour or so later I plugged the HD700 in, waiting to get that much spoken of ringing, to my surprise there was none, and I mean none, surprise!
> 
> The setup is small next to the Asus E1 as you can see in the pic below, I decided to put the little combo side by side to the E1 so I could get a little A/B action. The Vali/Modi combo after an hour plus of listening to my ears on tracks familiar to me are good not great. I think it has more to do with the Modi's DAC than the Vali to be honest.
> ...


 
 that is exactly what I pointed out to be my experience in the impressions I posted on the product page. 
  
*Basically the ODAC and MODI hold it back!!!*
*SELL THAT SCHITT AND KEEP THE VALI*


----------



## MickeyVee

The Vali scales up really well with a good DAC. Tried it with the Dragonfly, Rega DAC and the Naim DAC-V2.  I can definitely tell the difference between the three with the Rega and Naim providing great depth and detail while smoothing out the top end. Probably overkill but the Bifrost Uber at a minimum would be a great match.


----------



## sonic2911

Does schiit incluce the RCA cables with vali?


----------



## MickeyVee

^^ Nope.


----------



## Hykr3n

Got my Vali yesterday, so far i love it . Noise floor level is higher than my bravo v2 as i hear a small hiss but music sound crisper and brighter.

I lost a bit in the bass departement but im not using bass heavy can. 

Described ringning is not an issue as it goes away in 20 seconds.

It now time to get a dac and upgrade phones. Any inputs on good budget can?

Thanks


----------



## StanD

hykr3n said:


> Got my Vali yesterday, so far i love it . Noise floor level is higher than my bravo v2 as i hear a small hiss but music sound crisper and brighter.
> 
> I lost a bit in the bass departement but im not using bass heavy can.
> 
> ...


 
 What's your budget? What's your sound profile?


----------



## kcazbarach

on the rca cables topic, i bought premium rca cables from monoprice and maybe i got a dud, but it didn't fit my odac and i could only get one plug in (the red one) on the vali.
  
 so ymmv.


----------



## jworl

stand said:


> I have a feeling that it'll work out nicely. The HD700's are reasonably sensitive.


 


sonido said:


> The HD700 has a full-bodied, dark-leaning, and slightly veiled sound so I think it would pair very well with the Vali since the Vali gives a crisp and light sound signature.


 
  
 In my opinion, it's much better with the HD700, but I'm going to compare the Asgard/Vali and Denon/HD700s more tomorrow.
  
 Oddly enough, I sold my Bifrost to help fund the Vali/HD700 purchase, and I'm satisfied. Hopefully I'll feel the same after my comparison tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 (what I've been listening to for comparison)
 http://music.monstercat.com/album/monstercat-013-awakening
 http://music.monstercat.com/album/monstercat-014-discovery


----------



## iJimmy

Hey guys,

Hopefully I'll be a proud owner of the Vali in a couple of hours! I had a question though while I impatiently wait: do you think it's a mistake buying only the Vali and not it's best friend the Modi as well? The Modi was out of stock where I bought it (dealer Netherlands). Do you think it will be enjoyable on it's own (used with a Hifiman HE-400 and soon a modded T50RP)? I never had an amplifier before, so I figured it would be an improvement either way


----------



## Hykr3n

stand said:


> What's your budget? What's your sound profile?




Dont know much, for the sound signature. I currentley have a sr60 and sr 225.
Im thinking selling the 225 to source something else.
Budget around 250.
Would like to try some phone but i only find a grado dealer around.
And cant find better than hd558 in all the place i visited.

Thanks.


----------



## StanD

ijimmy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Hopefully I'll be a proud owner of the Vali in a couple of hours! I had a question though while I impatiently wait: do you think it's a mistake buying only the Vali and not it's best friend the Modi as well? The Modi was out of stock where I bought it (dealer Netherlands). Do you think it will be enjoyable on it's own (used with a Hifiman HE-400 and soon a modded T50RP)? I never had an amplifier before, so I figured it would be an improvement either way


 
 Probably a nice improvement. What are you going use to drive the Vali?


----------



## StanD

hykr3n said:


> Dont know much, for the sound signature. I currentley have a sr60 and sr 225.
> Im thinking selling the 225 to source something else.
> Budget around 250.
> Would like to try some phone but i only find a grado dealer around.
> ...


 
 How about describing the sound signature. How did you like the HD558?
 For around $250, I would recommend a Schiit Asgard 2, I have one and it does a great job, it's versatile and can drive a large variety of cans. I prefer a clean sound, some prefer tube amps that add a touch of even order harmonic distortion (call that color). A really good pure tube amp that can drive low impedance cans is going to cost plenty more than you have budgeted.


----------



## iJimmy

stand said:


> Probably a nice improvement. What are you going use to drive the Vali?


 
 Hey Stan,
  
 That's my problem, I have no dedicated DAC. I'm just running PC -> Vali -> Hifiman HE-400.
  
 That being said, I can hear an improvement already in the two minutes in which it's turned on. Wish I had the Modi to compare!


----------



## Misterrogers

The great thing is iJimmy - Vali scales very well. When you add a decent DAC, Vali will certainly be more resolving.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Probably a nice improvement. What are you going use to drive the Vali?


 
  
  


ijimmy said:


> Hey Stan,
> 
> That's my problem, I have no dedicated DAC. I'm just running PC -> Vali -> Hifiman HE-400.
> 
> That being said, I can hear an improvement already in the two minutes in which it's turned on. Wish I had the Modi to compare!


 
 Most PC's have lousy amps, so there no mystery to that improvement. May laptop has a surprisingly good DAC and AMP but not still not up to decent external gear. I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Bifrost with the USB and Uber audio options, in the next week or two.
 What guitar is that in your avatar?


----------



## sling5s

mickeyvee said:


> The Vali scales up really well with a good DAC. Tried it with the Dragonfly, Rega DAC and the Naim DAC-V2.  I can definitely tell the difference between the three with the Rega and Naim providing great depth and detail while smoothing out the top end. Probably overkill but the Bifrost Uber at a minimum would be a great match.


 
 +1
 Actually Purrin recommended the Bifrost Uber as the minimum.  He highly recommended Gungnir for the Vali.  So it does scale well.


----------



## Hykr3n

stand said:


> How about describing the sound signature. How did you like the HD558?
> For around $250, I would recommend a Schiit Asgard 2, I have one and it does a great job, it's versatile and can drive a large variety of cans. I prefer a clean sound, some prefer tube amps that add a touch of even order harmonic distortion (call that color). A really good pure tube amp that can drive low impedance cans is going to cost plenty more than you have budgeted.


 
  
 Dont want to go too much OT but i really enjoy the ralaxed sound and airy (soundstage?) sound of the 558, i also fell they have little more bass in them over my SR, I know im bad in sound terminology!
 For my budget i dont want to change my Vali since i got it two days ago and enoyed it, im still looking for a good (afordable) beginner dac and another pair of headphone
 When the time as come i will for sure try another Schiit...


----------



## aleibo39

ijimmy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Hopefully I'll be a proud owner of the Vali in a couple of hours! I had a question though while I impatiently wait: do you think it's a mistake buying only the Vali and not it's best friend the Modi as well? The Modi was out of stock where I bought it (dealer Netherlands). Do you think it will be enjoyable on it's own (used with a Hifiman HE-400 and soon a modded T50RP)? I never had an amplifier before, so I figured it would be an improvement either way


 
 I have both the Vali and it's little friend the Modi; and I have to say they sound awesome together with my AKG K702's.  I had the Vali for about 7-8 weeks before I ordered the Modi, and it sounded great all by itself using a variety of sources (NAD CD player, my MacBook, and even by iPod Classic).  The addition of the Modi only improved the sound, adding more depth and clarity to the overall soundstage. I think you will be very happy with the Vali all by itself; but, adding the Modi only makes it better!  Enjoy.


----------



## StanD

hykr3n said:


> Dont want to go too much OT but i really enjoy the ralaxed sound and airy (soundstage?) sound of the 558, i also fell they have little more bass in them over my SR, I know im bad in sound terminology!
> For my budget i dont want to change my Vali since i got it two days ago and enoyed it, im still looking for a good (afordable) beginner dac and another pair of headphone
> When the time as come i will for sure try another Schiit...


 
 If you like the HD558's, you'd probably love the HD600's. I have both. The HD600 does very well with the Vali, in fact I'm using that pair right now.


----------



## LCfiner

mickeyvee said:


> The Vali scales up really well with a good DAC. Tried it with the Dragonfly, Rega DAC and the Naim DAC-V2.  I can definitely tell the difference between the three with the Rega and Naim providing great depth and detail while smoothing out the top end. Probably overkill but the Bifrost Uber at a minimum would be a great match.


 
  
 I'd agree with this for sure based on my recent experience. Vali sounded more open moving to the Emotiva DC-1 from the Burson DAC in the HA160D. I consider all DAC changes to be pretty minor but as far as DAC changes go, this one was noticeable to my ears with some songs and a welcome improvement. The Vali scales well.
  
 I'v listened to the DC-1 + Vali combo more in the past week with the HD800 and it's pretty great. lots of detail, expansive soundstage, not shrill or fatiguing. 
  
 It's less dense and meaty than the Burson presentation (less midbass) but has more apparent instrument detail - mainly in bass - and improves soundstage, which is one of the main reasons to get an HD800, imo.
  
 I liked the HD800 with the HA160D, but the Vali and DC-1 is a bit of an improvement in several areas.


----------



## kothganesh

I use the Vali with the Bifrost. Indeed a great match. Realized I had not put my Uber and Gen 2 USB boards in. I'm sure it should sound even better after the upgrade.


----------



## StanD

kothganesh said:


> I use the Vali with the Bifrost. Indeed a great match. Realized I had not put my Uber and Gen 2 USB boards in. I'm sure it should sound even better after the upgrade.


 
 You were using the SPDIF input?


----------



## iJimmy

stand said:


> Most PC's have lousy amps, so there no mystery to that improvement. May laptop has a surprisingly good DAC and AMP but not still not up to decent external gear. I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Bifrost with the USB and Uber audio options, in the next week or two.
> What guitar is that in your avatar?


 
 It's my one true love: my Ibanez JEM 7vWH.


----------



## Hykr3n

ijimmy said:


> It's my one true love: my Ibanez JEM 7vWH.


 
 It look like the Steve Vai model?


----------



## iJimmy

hykr3n said:


> It look like the Steve Vai model?


 
 The JEM series is the Steve Vai (signature) series; those are the guitars he uses


----------



## iJimmy

By the way guys, the black (rubber?) square with 4 things sticking out I assume are the feet, but they are attached to each other? Am I supposed to cut them myself?


----------



## LCfiner

they peel off the back paper independently. you just need to lift one off with your fingers. no cutting needed


----------



## kcazbarach

yes they're rubber feet, and u just peel them off. no cutting necessary.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> You were using the SPDIF input?



No I'm using the USB to USB in the Bifrost. But mate, you've just given me my next item to buy, a USB to SPDIF bridge . I have one for the Gungnir/Mojo but completely forgot to get one for the Bifrost/Lyr/Vali.


----------



## Snips

kothganesh said:


> I use the Vali with the Bifrost. Indeed a great match. Realized I had not put my Uber and Gen 2 USB boards in. I'm sure it should sound even better after the upgrade.


 
  
 I ordered the same combo as you. Mine should be arriving in another day or so. What headphones are you using with it?


----------



## NZheadcase

kothganesh said:


> I use the Vali with the Bifrost. Indeed a great match. Realized I had not put my Uber and Gen 2 USB boards in. I'm sure it should sound even better after the upgrade.


 
  
 Plug them in already!


----------



## abhinit90

So I've finally got a Vali.
  
 Using them with my modded T50RP makes them sound good, but nothing that blows me. I use an Aune T1 as a DAC. I wonder if my drivers are blown or there's some problem with my T50RP(which isn't the case most likely) or most probably I'll have to adjust to the Vali. I expected a lot perhaps.
  
 But even though it's the first hour, I'm listening a ton of things I couldn't notice earlier, or maybe I'm just paying too much attention now.
  
 Obligatory, ringing mention, very rare ringing on a solid surface, thankfully. Damn is the Vali small.
  
 edit: read the rubber feet posts above


----------



## kothganesh

snips said:


> I ordered the same combo as you. Mine should be arriving in another day or so. What headphones are you using with it?



HE 500. Need to test the Audez'e


----------



## kothganesh

nzheadcase said:


> Plug them in already!


 
 Mate, how are you ? I'm trying believe me, but I made the huge "mistake" of buying the Stax 007 mk1 and the SR 717 amp and I just can't put down the HP.


----------



## StanD

kothganesh said:


> Mate, how are you ? I'm trying believe me, but I made the huge "mistake" of buying the Stax 007 mk1 and the SR 717 amp and I just can't put down the HP.


 
 Tell us the real truth, you're knee deep in Ras Malai and can't get away from the dinner table.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> Tell us the real truth, you're knee deep in Ras Malai and can't get away from the dinner table.


 
 Haha, ROFL ! Stan the Man, you've got to get past Ras Malai and vodka ! There's plenty more from where these comes from...all of which will keep you at the dinner table


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Tell us the real truth, you're knee deep in Ras Malai and can't get away from the dinner table.


 
  
  


kothganesh said:


> Haha, ROFL ! Stan the Man, you've got to get past Ras Malai and vodka ! There's plenty more from where these comes from...all of which will keep you at the dinner table


 
 So you prefer a Vodka Lassi? One too many of that and you'll color the sound too much.
 I have a feeling that I will find my way to an Indian restaurant this weekend.


----------



## guerillaw

ijimmy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Hopefully I'll be a proud owner of the Vali in a couple of hours! I had a question though while I impatiently wait: do you think it's a mistake buying only the Vali and not it's best friend the Modi as well? The Modi was out of stock where I bought it (dealer Netherlands). Do you think it will be enjoyable on it's own (used with a Hifiman HE-400 and soon a modded T50RP)? I never had an amplifier before, so I figured it would be an improvement either way


 
  
 Consider an Audio Quest  Dragonfly. If budget is a concern, go with version 1, they are basically being given away, even new. Just be sure to get the dragon tail adaptor, its easily worth the 16 bucks and also factor in cost of a cable that will send the headphone signal in stereo to the Vali.  1/8 to stereo cables are everywhere, just don't pay too much! I recommend Blue Jeans cable "MSA-1" at 30 but some head-fief's might say that is even too much. 
  
 I have such a setup with the dragonfly 1.2 and it works quite well. As a bonus I can pull the Dragonfly out and take it with me to use with portable headphones on the go.


----------



## kcazbarach

so is there any general warm up time people use for tube amps (I realize this is a hybrid)
  
 when i first turned on the vali today, it just sounded really bad but 20-30 minutes later it was just the sound I loved about this amp.
 do tube amps require some warmup? Or i am just going through brain burn in?


----------



## StanD

kcazbarach said:


> so is there any general warm up time people use for tube amps (I realize this is a hybrid)
> 
> when i first turned on the vali today, it just sounded really bad but 20-30 minutes later it was just the sound I loved about this amp.
> do tube amps require some warmup? Or i am just going through brain burn in?


 
 Mine is good to go rather quickly. 20-30 minutes seems like a long time for it to sound "_really bad_."


----------



## happyguitarist

Hello,
  
 I have read these forums for a while, but this is my first post!
  
 I just got the Vali to use with my Sennheiser HD598s.  I have good hearing and listen to lots of quiet music with sparse arrangements, so I find the hiss to be pretty bothersome.  I am looking in to attenuating the volume somehow to reduce the hiss.  Reading earlier in this posting, someone suggested an “L-Pad” would be the best solution, to avoid messing up frequency response.
 I wasn’t able to find any L-Pads made for this purpose, and don’t have skills to make my own.  I did, however, find this cable made to hook a Zoom H4N or Zoom H1 to a video camera. 
  
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/746651-REG/Sescom_LN2MIC_ZOOMH4N_6_LN2MIC_ZMH4N_6_Line_to.html
  
 Do you think this would work to reduce hiss with the Vali?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## kothganesh

kcazbarach said:


> so is there any general warm up time people use for tube amps (I realize this is a hybrid)
> 
> when i first turned on the vali today, it just sounded really bad but 20-30 minutes later it was just the sound I loved about this amp.
> do tube amps require some warmup? Or i am just going through brain burn in?



In my experience, I switched it on and after the "obligatory" ringing was over, the amp was good to go. Funnily enough I don't even hear the ringing on start up from time to time.


----------



## StanD

happyguitarist said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have read these forums for a while, but this is my first post!
> 
> ...


 
 I suggested the L-PAD. The one you have linked to is not what you want, it'll reduce the signal far too muc as it;s for microphones hot headphones. You could probably use something like the below but don't need that much power. Perhaps a fixed L-PAD that attenuates 6 or 10 dB would be just right.
http://www.amazon.com/L-Pad-50W-Stereo-Rated-Shaft/dp/B0002KR1BO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391909810&sr=8-1&keywords=L-PAD+stereo
  
 The below is probably too technical but has the information to calculate your own from cheap resistors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-pad


----------



## nicdub

kcazbarach said:


> so is there any general warm up time people use for tube amps (I realize this is a hybrid)
> 
> when i first turned on the vali today, it just sounded really bad but 20-30 minutes later it was just the sound I loved about this amp.
> do tube amps require some warmup? Or i am just going through brain burn in?


 
 i have had the same experience.  a bit thin and not full sounding at first turn on, but after 30 or so minutes, it sounds great.


----------



## Snips

kcazbarach said:


> so is there any general warm up time people use for tube amps (I realize this is a hybrid)
> 
> when i first turned on the vali today, it just sounded really bad but 20-30 minutes later it was just the sound I loved about this amp.
> do tube amps require some warmup? Or i am just going through brain burn in?


 
  
 I've yet to try out my new Vali but I used to warm up the Lyr for around 5 - 10 minutes back when I had it.


----------



## happyguitarist

Thank you StanD!
 So 25dB would be too much?  I was hoping that cable would work, as it is already assembled and ready to go.  I don't understand what I would do with the one in the link you provided (I really have no skills with electronics)


----------



## StanD

happyguitarist said:


> Thank you StanD!
> So 25dB would be too much?  I was hoping that cable would work, as it is already assembled and ready to go.  I don't understand what I would do with the one in the link you provided (I really have no skills with electronics)


 
 If you put an 8.2 Ohm resistor between the output of the amp and the earcup (the other side of the earcup goes to ground) and a 10 Ohm resistor in parallel with the earcup (across both leads). You will roughly cut the gain by 6 dB or by 1/2 and keep good damping with the HD598 cans and the amp will see a 16.5 Ohm load (as if headhphones were 16.5 Ohms). The HD598 will see the equivalent of 4.5 Ohms amp impedance if the amp has 2 ohms real output impedance. If the amp has a lower impedance the number will be lower.
 Of course you don't solder the resistors onto the cans, you do it with jacks that you plug the cans into and plug the amp into. and you do the same for the left and right channels. Next thing is if the resistors are 5% then you risk causing a channel imbalance, To pevent that you can buy more expensive resistors or buy a bunch of cheap 1/2 watt 5% carbon resistors and get the best match for each channel with an Ohm Meter. I picked standard value resistors.
  

```
Amp Left Output ----8.2 Ohm Resistor----|-----Left earcup HD598------------|
```


```
|-------10 Ohm Resistor------------|---------Ground
```
  
 Amp<<--------cable--------->>----small metal hobby box with resistors inside---<<------Headphone
  
 Find a friend that can solder.
  
 Edit: If the volume is too low, make that 8.2 Ohm resistor a little lower in value, maybe 5.6 Ohms. That would make the amp see a 13.9 Ohm load and the headphones see an equivalent of 3.75 Ohms if the amp was 2 Ohms.


----------



## happyguitarist

Thank you again StanD for taking the time to make such a thoughtful and informative reply!


----------



## StanD

happyguitarist said:


> Thank you again StanD for taking the time to make such a thoughtful and informative reply!


 
 Glad to help. I hope you can manage to get it put together.


----------



## jworl

A Soundblaster X-Fi HD RCA out was used for both Vali and Asgard. All opinions below are, _obviously_, subjective.
  
*The HD700 with Vali and Asgard*
 The difference between these two amps using the HD700 is minimal... maybe even non-existent... to my ears.
  
*Denon AH-D2000 with Vali*
 It isn't as punchy or tight compared to Asgard.
  
*Denon AH-D2000 with Asgard*
 Everything is tighter. I'm not sure how else to describe it, but I definitely prefer it.
  
*Vali vs. Asgard*
 If I had to choose between Vali and Asgard, I would purchase Asgard since it sounds great with both of my headphones. It seems the Asgard's price difference is related more to versatility than just 'sounding better'.
  
*Overall*
 If I wanted to try very specific headphones such as the HD650, HD700, HD800, DT-880, DT-990, etc. and was on a tighter budget, I would purchase the Vali. I see no reason why amplification of certain 'higher-end, higher-impedance' headphones should require multi-thousand dollar amps. Would they (particularly, the HD700 and 800) sound _that_ _much_ better? Probably not, but that's just one man's opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 When I purchased the HD700, the only other amp I considered was the Bottlehead Crack, and I ultimately chose Vali because I did not want to deal with the DIY stuff. I may try the Bottlehead Crack in the future, but I'm not disappointed with Vali whatsoever.


----------



## Snips

I'm temporarily running the TDK BA200 out of the Vali while waiting for my HD600s. Damn, the hiss pretty bad. I can hear it even when a song is playing.


----------



## phillyd

My Vali came with a scratch above the volume knob. It is now out of the 15-day refund period and the RMA period for aesthetic issues, but Schiit is sending me a new chassis for it, free of charge! Great CS!!


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> I'm temporarily running the TDK BA200 out of the Vali while waiting for my HD600s. Damn, the hiss pretty bad. I can hear it even when a song is playing.


 
 You won't hear the hiss with the HD600's. Those IEMs are very sensitive, that's why you are hearing hiss. You probably have the volume set very low as well.


----------



## Snips

stand said:


> You won't hear the hiss with the HD600's. Those IEMs are very sensitive, that's why you are hearing hiss. You probably have the volume set very low as well.


 
  
 Yeah the volume is pretty low. Don't have much of a choice at the moment, any louder and my ear drums will pop


----------



## geogga

phillyd said:


> My Vali came with a scratch above the volume knob. It is now out of the 15-day refund period and the RMA period for aesthetic issues, but Schiit is sending me a new chassis for it, free of charge! Great CS!!


 
  
 You didn't open it for 15 days?


----------



## phillyd

No, but I waited to contact them about it.


----------



## Sonido

So my 300 ohm impedance adapter arrived today, and it works great with my KEF M500 and Vali. Silent noise floor. Great control of volume level as well, and I normally have my M500 at 11-12 o'clock on the Vali now. It even works well with my Bottlehead Crack OTL amp as well. Looks to be a solution to low impedance headphones.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Etymotic-ER4P-to-ER4S-6-35-to-3-5mm-resistor-adaptor-/281259601005
  
 Just ask for the 240 or 300 ohm one.


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> So my 300 ohm impedance adapter arrived today, and it works great with my KEF M500 and Vali. Silent noise floor. Great control of volume level as well, and I normally have my M500 at 11-12 o'clock on the Vali now. It even works well with my Bottlehead Crack OTL amp as well. Looks to be a solution to low impedance headphones.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Etymotic-ER4P-to-ER4S-6-35-to-3-5mm-resistor-adaptor-/281259601005
> 
> Just ask for the 240 or 300 ohm one.


 
 It looks like these adapters only put a resistor in series with each amp channel and the related transducer in your cans. If that's all it does and your cans don't have a flat impedance curve you're going to have an altered FR. To reduce the volume at the cans you need an L-PAD that also puts a resistor across the transducers. That means 2 resistors for each channel.
 Those are 32 Ohm Cans. Putting only a 300 Ohm resistor in series will kill any damping that the amp normally provides. That means losing some control of bass.
 A proper L-PAD will drop the volume and manage impedances at both ends (amp and cans). The more sensitive your cans the more you can get away with.
 OK, I just found the impedance curve for your M500's. Lucky you it's flat. Scratch one possible problem. Doing this to certain Sennheiser cans would result in some flabby bass boost.
 You might want to compare the M500's using the adapter and Vali/Crack to another low impedance amp without the adapter that doesn't have any noise issues and see what the bass is like as to the loss of damping.
  
u


----------



## lostinthesauce

Ok, need some advise.  Assuming that the price difference is inconsequential, am I better off going with the Vali, Valhalla, or Lyr.  I am deadset on getting a tube amp and from observing the community and Schiit's interaction with it have also determined it will be one of their products.
  
 Right now I only have low-midrange Audio Technicas (ESW9, AD900X, M50....actually that's been handed down to my daughter but I may get it back as she's been drooling over the pink coloured Momentums).  I am currently considering stepping up to either the Shure SRH1540 or the ATH-W1000 (baby steps in my purchases).  I obviously love that rich detailed midrange and am sensitive to excessive highs.
  
 I do like the thought of the all tube Valhalla but Schiit's comment "Beyer 600 ohm models and Sennheiser 300 ohm headphones are best–think high-impedance when you’re thinking about Valhalla. Yes, we have plenty of people using Valhalla with low-impedance headphones, but the best match is with high-impedance cans." has me concerned.  The lineout on the Lyr would preclude the need for a splitter and turning off the speakers when listening to the headphones.  But the Vali is cheap and cheerful it has really caught my eye...so I am conflicted and would appreciate any recommendations the forum would want to give.
  
 P.S.
 Assume a pairing with a totally decked out Bifrost (Uberanalouge/Gen2 USB) and the source strictly being my computer.


----------



## Spiral Out

I'm using the Byer DT880 250 ohm with the Vali. I think it pairs very well. I'm not sure the Vali would work as well with the 600 ohm model though. I'm usually at around 12 or 1 on the pot with the 250 ohm. With the 600 ohm there may not be enough headroom. You may want to go with the Valhalla with the very high impedance headphones.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> I'm using the Byer DT880 250 ohm with the Vali. I think it pairs very well. I'm not sure the Vali would work as well with the 600 ohm model though. I'm usually at around 12 or 1 on the pot with the 250 ohm. With the 600 ohm there may not be enough headroom. You may want to go with the Valhalla with the very high impedance headphones.


 
 Or don't buy the 600 Ohm version of those cans and live in the Vali. The Senn HD600 works very well with the Vali. Me, I prefer the Asgard 2, I have both amps. Even though, I have the Vali in my den and listen to it plenty enough.


----------



## AnalogSavior

Just thought I'd comment on the noise level of Vali now that I've had it for some time with it, as its a potential turn off to those considering it.
  
 Its a noisy amp, no doubt about it.  About as noisy if not just slightly noisier than portable devices with sensitive IEMs.  That being said, most of the time, the recording noise on most songs tends to be louder than the background noise at my listening levels (which is about 9 to 11 o'clock).  If you are listening to it louder it should not be an issue at all, in my opinion.  However, if simply knowing that there is noise somewhere in the background that does not belong to the recording bothers you, then I guess its not for you.  Which is a shame, because its a great sounding little amp.
  
 Just my two cents on an issue I've been asked about before.


----------



## Vemon

I searched in this thread, it seem grado sr225 is not very good with Vali?


----------



## dvom

analogsavior said:


> Just thought I'd comment on the noise level of Vali now that I've had it for some time with it, as its a potential turn off to those considering it.
> 
> Its a noisy amp, no doubt about it.  About as noisy if not just slightly noisier than portable devices with sensitive IEMs.  That being said, most of the time, the recording noise on most songs tends to be louder than the background noise at my listening levels (which is about 9 to 11 o'clock).  If you are listening to it louder it should not be an issue at all, in my opinion.  However, if simply knowing that there is noise somewhere in the background that does not belong to the recording bothers you, then I guess its not for you.  Which is a shame, because its a great sounding little amp.
> 
> Just my two cents on an issue I've been asked about before.


 
 To add to this, Ive had my Vali for about four days now with my HE-400's. I have 3 posts so ill keep it short, the noise is not a problem to me and I feel like im pretty sensitive to background noise.


----------



## Spiral Out

> I searched in this thread, it seem grado sr225 is not very good with Vali?


 
  
 I think the SR225 sound very good with the Vali. Far better than the older Headroom amp I was using them with before. The only downside is there is noticeable noise with no signal or with come classical recordings that have very quiet sections. The Vali has a 6.5 ohm output impedance and the Grados are 32 ohms and pretty sensitive, so there is bound to be some hiss. I listen to rock primarily with the 225 and there is absolutely no noise 99% of the time; the only time I can hear any is in between tracks or at the very end of a fadeout on a track. I really don't find it offensive at all.


----------



## Sonido

It's worth trying out an impedance adapter for noise problems if your headphone has a flat impedance curve.


----------



## Spiral Out

I have been thinking about trying an impdance adapter out with the 225. The only reason I haven't yet is that I can't find one that's 1/4" to 1/4". I really would rather not have an 1/4" to 1/8" adapter, then a impedance adapter on top of that. That might be kind of silly I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 StanD's recommendation of an LPAD sounds like a better solution, but I have not been able to find one any were on the net that is suitable for use with headphones.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> I have been thinking about trying an impdance adapter out with the 225. The only reason I haven't yet is that I can't find one that's 1/4" to 1/4". I really would rather not have an 1/4" to 1/8" adapter, then a impedance adapter on top of that. That might be kind of silly I know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It takes only two resistors per channel to make an L-PAD that will attenuate the signal and keep a low enough impedance to damp the headphones. Four resistors, two jacks, a box and some wire and you can make one. Or else you have to find someone nearby that can solder.
 I figured out the resistors for someone a few days ago. If you match the resistors on a meter you can prevent any imbalance in the channels.This was for a specific set of headphones.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/3390#post_102511t 
  
 At what position do you have the volume knob when you listen with the SR225i's?


----------



## MickeyVee

Listening to the Vali right now fed by a Dragonfly into a new pair of Grado RS1i's.  No/minimal noise floor to speak of even when I pause the music. The trick for me is not to touch it once I get setup and tweak the volume via the Dragonfly.  I'm really enjoying it.  What an inexpensive and sublime combo for under $300.


----------



## Spiral Out

Normally I don't go past 10 o'clock on the volume knob with the 225's.I just looked at your post regarding building an L-Pad, it seems to be simple enough to build. Thank you for the instructions. Any suggestion were I could find the resistors and the jack to build it? RadioShack? Too bad I don't have the parts now, tomorrow would be a good time to build it as I will be most likely snowed in.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> Normally I don't go past 10 o'clock on the volume knob with the 225's.I just looked at your post regarding building an L-Pad, it seems to be simple enough to build. Thank you for the instructions. Any suggestion were I could find the resistors and the jack to build it? RadioShack? Too bad I don't have the parts now, tomorrow would be a good time to build it as I will be most likely snowed in.


 
 That was for the Sennheiser HD598's I'll try to figure out what to do or your 225's and post it in a couple of days. I have to do some serious snow removal tomorrow morning.


----------



## Spiral Out

Thank you, that would be great! Your input will be very helpful for all Grado/Vali owners. I will be doing a lot of digging out also tomorrow, it's just getting started here and it's coming down fast.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> Thank you, that would be great! Your input will be very helpful for all Grado/Vali owners. I will be doing a lot of digging out also tomorrow, it's just getting started here and it's coming down fast.


 
 I did a quick calculation.
 Putting a 1.3 Ohm resistor between the amp's output and the transducer and a 10 Ohm resistor across the transducer would give you a -6.12 dB loss. You would do this for both channels. I'm taking a potshot at the dB loss, but I think that should work.
 You can try this out by using clip leads, a solderless breadboard and jacks to make the circuit to try. If it works then you can match as close as you can from a bunch of resistors to get resistors for both channels to keep their balance when you build the final gadget. In other words you want the 1.3 Ohm resistors in both channels to be as close to each other as possible and do the same for the 10 Ohm resistors.
  
 You can get a cheap solderless breadboard at the radioshack nearest to Stonehenge.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (your Head-fi location)
  
 The 1.3 Ohm resistor goes in series with the Vali's 6.5 Ohm output impedance forming a 7,8 Ohm equivalent that goes in series with the transducer (32 Ohms) that has a parallel 10 Ohm resistor and creates a divider. This forms an attenuator with the headphone load. If the Vali's output impedance is actually lower than the spec'd 6.5 Ohms then you won't get as much attenuation and the 1.3 Ohm resistor would have to go up in value. This is where breadboarding a trial comes in handy.
 The goal is to get the right amount of attenuation and keep a load on the phones that is close to 4 Ohms for good damping.
  
 Below is an example of one channel

```
Vali Output----1.3 Ohm Resistor----|------- transducer/earcup --------| |-------10 Ohm Resistor------------|---------Ground
```


----------



## Snips

Finally got back my HD600s and plugged them into the Vali. I must say, I shouldn't have held off buying these for so long.


----------



## kothganesh

Anybody plugged the LCD 2.2 into the Vali ? Listening to Boston and the music is just beautiful with no hint of any noise.....it just sounds right to me ...


----------



## UmustBKidn

analogsavior said:


> Just thought I'd comment on the noise level of Vali now that I've had it for some time with it, as its a potential turn off to those considering it.
> 
> Its a noisy amp, no doubt about it.  About as noisy if not just slightly noisier than portable devices with sensitive IEMs.  That being said, most of the time, the recording noise on most songs tends to be louder than the background noise at my listening levels (which is about 9 to 11 o'clock).  If you are listening to it louder it should not be an issue at all, in my opinion.  However, if simply knowing that there is noise somewhere in the background that does not belong to the recording bothers you, then I guess its not for you.  Which is a shame, because its a great sounding little amp.
> 
> Just my two cents on an issue I've been asked about before.


 
  
 Yes, but on the bright side, when you get to be over 40, your tinnitus will probably be louder than any background noise.


----------



## Spiral Out

Thank you very much StanD! I really appreciate you taking the time to figure out the parts and configuration of the L-PAD.  I'm going to run out to see the mystical dwarfs at my local Stonehenge location Radio Shack as soon as I can dig out of this mess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It may be a couple of days but I will keep you posted.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> Thank you very much StanD! I really appreciate you taking the time to figure out the parts and configuration of the L-PAD.  I'm going to run out to see the mystical dwarfs at my local Stonehenge location Radio Shack as soon as I can dig out of this mess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Keep in touch, I can help you tweak or make adjustments to what you find.


----------



## Spiral Out

I will definitely keep in touch. I will post  impressions/pictures when I'm done. There are a lot of Grado and Vali owners out there from what I've read. I think this L PAD will be very useful for them or anyone using Grados with a high output impedance amp. Thank you so much!


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> I will definitely keep in touch. I will post  impressions/pictures when I'm done. There are a lot of Grado and Vali owners out there from what I've read. I think this L PAD will be very useful for them or anyone using Grados with a high output impedance amp. Thank you so much!


 
 The Vali is not a high impedance amp, it's just not very low impedance, it's 6.5 Ohms. A typical pure tube OTL amp is much higher and would require a different solution, the Vali is a hybrid with an SS output stage. If the Vali had a much lower output impedance then that 1.3 Ohm resistor would have to go up a few Ohms to compensate. Hopefully that 6.5 Ohm figure is correct. I'll see if I can get a ballpark measurement of that this weekend.


----------



## Spiral Out

I'm used to solid state amps with low output impedance so in my experience it seems high. I have never listened to an OTL amp, but I would very much like to. The whole tube thing it new to me, but I am enjoying it for sure. I appreciate any more input you could provide!


----------



## Rossliew

My woody SR80i pairs well with the Vali and Modi. Just wondering if a higher end DAC like the Bifrost or Gungnir might make it sound better...


----------



## Sonido

spiral out said:


> I will definitely keep in touch. I will post  impressions/pictures when I'm done. There are a lot of Grado and Vali owners out there from what I've read. I think this L PAD will be very useful for them or anyone using Grados with a high output impedance amp. Thank you so much!



Careful on the L-PAD.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/705467/the-new-bottleheadphone-kit-150-headphone-built-specifically-for-the-crack#post_10267946


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> Careful on the L-PAD.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/705467/the-new-bottleheadphone-kit-150-headphone-built-specifically-for-the-crack#post_10267946


 
 Like anything you have to do it right. If the attenuation is too much and the sensitivity too low when maintaining proper impedances then an L-PAD may not be a viable solution. Maybe a different amp or cans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 If you get the impedances wrong, that's a boo boo.
 There is still a small element of trial and error to fiddling with this to get the loudness right to the individual's taste. Call it lab work.


----------



## K.T.

snips said:


> Finally got back my HD600s and plugged them into the Vali. I must say, I shouldn't have held off buying these for so long.




Yeah, 600s are fantastic on the Vali. So good!


----------



## mrlazybums

Can't wait for the Bay Area headfi meet to try the Vali out!


----------



## darinf

mrlazybums said:


> Can't wait for the Bay Area headfi meet to try the Vali out!



 

Yes, looking forward to the meet! 

If the Schiit tables are too crowded, come by my table (@darinf). I will have the Vali setup with some HD800's. I have a attenuating adapter and some Noble IEMs if you want to see how that works on the Vali too.

-Darin


----------



## mrlazybums

darinf said:


> Yes, looking forward to the meet!
> 
> If the Schiit tables are too crowded, come by my table (@darinf). I will have the Vali setup with some HD800's. I have a attenuating adapter and some Noble IEMs if you want to see how that works on the Vali too.
> 
> -Darin


 
  
 Awesome, thanks for the headups. I will definitely drop by =)


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

Can't wait to try the Vali. Seems so promising!


----------



## ph58

Hi everyone , Has someone try the Fostex TH600 with the Vali ? Thanks in advance .


----------



## RestoredSparda

Trying a better front end out with the vali. It scales up pretty darn well.


----------



## ph58

restoredsparda said:


> Trying a better front end out with the vali. It scales up pretty darn well.


 

 What do you mean about better front end out ? Thanks .


----------



## RestoredSparda

ph58 said:


> What do you mean about better front end out ? Thanks .




Was previously using a ibasso dx50 with the vali. Now I'm trying a Schiit bifrost uber. Meant I was using a different DAC.


----------



## ph58

So , the combo Bifrost + Vali have a good synergy with the TH600 , What do you think about the cheaper Modi ? Thanks .


----------



## StanD

ph58 said:


> So , the combo Bifrost + Vali have a good synergy with the TH600 , What do you think about the cheaper Modi ? Thanks .


 
 Modi = $100
 Fully optioned Bifrost = $520
 The Bifrost is better but not 5X as much.
 Do you really need better than 24bit/96kHz? Probably not. I doubt that we can really hear any difference above that.
 Can you spend the difference?
 Ponder that in your own context.
 That said, I have a fully decked out Bifrost arriving tomorrow. If it was a Modi, I'd be able to work with it only I must have the better I/O options that the Bifrost has, i.e., un-powered USB and SPDIF.


----------



## ph58

stand said:


> Modi = $100
> Fully optioned Bifrost = $520
> The Bifrost is better but not 5X as much.
> Do you really need better than 24bit/96kHz? Probably not. I doubt that we can really hear any difference above that.
> ...


 

 OK , i think that the Modi is a better option for me .Especially for its price . thanks


----------



## phillyd

The bifrost unupgraded is still a pretty good dac and fits well in its price range.


----------



## Snips

phillyd said:


> The bifrost unupgraded is still a pretty good dac and fits well in its price range.


 

 Plus you can always upgrade it with new stuff when Schiit releases them in the future. 
  
 Although it really depends on what you need and what you want.


----------



## StanD

phillyd said:


> The bifrost unupgraded is still a pretty good dac and fits well in its price range.


 
  
  


snips said:


> Plus you can always upgrade it with new stuff when Schiit releases them in the future.
> 
> Although it really on what you need and what you want.


 
 Not everyone needs a Bifrost or they might have to spend less, that's why Schiit makes the Modi. Or like what was just said, "what you need and what you want."


----------



## MickeyVee

I haven't heard the Modi but the Dragonfly mates well with the Vali. Can anyone describe the difference between the Modi & DF and whether it's worth the extra $50?


----------



## phillyd

Never tried the dragonfly but I can say that the modi sounds very good with the Vali. Very good balance. I was never under the impression that either was too good for the other, like I am now, using a Modi to source an Antique Sound Lab MG Head OTL MK3


----------



## tehsprayer

phillyd said:


> Never tried the dragonfly but I can say that the modi sounds very good with the Vali. Very good balance. I was never under the impression that either was too good for the other, like I am now, using a Modi to source an Antique Sound Lab MG Head OTL MK3


 
 The Modi does go nicely with the vali for me as well.
  
 For DACs as you increase the price there is lower diminesing returns. The bifrost will sound better than the modi but not 5x better (+$400).


----------



## StanD

tehsprayer said:


> The Modi does go nicely with the vali for me as well.
> 
> For DACs as you increase the price there is lower diminesing returns. The bifrost will sound better than the modi but not 5x better (+$400).


 
 +1
 Even though I have a Bifrost coming my way today, I said the same thing about not being 5X better about 4 hours ago in this same thread.


----------



## nicdub

right now i'm preferring the dragonfly with the magni, and the modi with the vali.  the magni can be a bit aggressive, and it seems the dragonfly tames that bit.  on the other hand, the exacting nature of the modi is nicely balanced with the smoothness of the vali.  imho.


----------



## x838nwy

Ordered.
I'm amazed i held out this long.


----------



## K.T.

x838nwy said:


> Ordered.
> I'm amazed i held out this long.




Yeah, me too. What's up with you? 

Regarding the Dragonfly, I got the 1.2 version. 

For some reason it sounds way too warm to me. So warm that it takes the life out of the sound.

The Modi, on the other hand, was just right. 

I think it's all about balancing with the rest of your system. I can't understand why the Dragonfly is so warm, though. Is there a long burn-in period, or some other setting I might be missing?


----------



## StanD

x838nwy said:


> Ordered.
> I'm amazed i held out this long.


 
 Now you have to wait for it to arrive. I hate waiting.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> Now you have to wait for it to arrive. I hate waiting.


 
 Stan:
  
 When Fedex informs me that a package has come, I drive to pick it up; I don't let them deliver it.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Anyone here tried pairing the CLAS-db with the Vali yet? I'm curious about this pairing


----------



## x838nwy

stand said:


> Now you have to wait for it to arrive. I hate waiting.


 
  
 Same here. I chose the 2-day shipping option… but I WANT IT NOW!!!! ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!
  


k.t. said:


> Yeah, me too. What's up with you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lolz. Yeah, I've been holding out a bit. I WAS actually thinking of not getting the Vali *gasp* considering my consumer luck. If there's anything wrong with a thing or if it is possible, mine will have it. This combined with my olympic-class oct means mine will probably ring without any provocation  But I've head such great things about it, it might be worth while.
  
 I'll give it a whirl with my CLAS-db, Dragonfly 1.0, Modi, may be my Gungnir, and finally my PWDII. This should be fun. The Modi set up will be a bit of a giggle, I plan for MBP-.Black Cat SilverstarI USB -> ifi iUSB -> ifi Gemini -> Modi -> Pyst RCA -> Vali -> K702 Annies. Basically a connection system larger than the key components!
  
 As for the DF v1.2, that's interesting. I've always felt mine (v1.0) is a little on the dry side….


----------



## Snips

x838nwy said:


> This combined with my olympic-class oct means mine will probably ring without any provocation  But I've head such great things about it, it might be worth while.


 
  
 I was rather concerned about all the ringing people were talking about as well before I received my own Vali. I've been using it for almost a week so far, and I hardly notice the ringing at all. Sometimes I'm not sure if it's even there.


----------



## UmustBKidn

x838nwy said:


> Ordered.
> I'm amazed i held out this long.


 
  
 I have you beat. I'm still holding out. Though I have to admit, I've had my finger on the shopping cart button, more than once.


----------



## jaganeee

digitalfreak said:


> Anyone here tried pairing the CLAS-db with the Vali yet? I'm curious about this pairing


 
 auditioned the pairing but IMO clas -db + rx mk3 is a made for each other.
 if makes the music touch my heart with hd650


----------



## StanD

kothganesh said:


> Stan:
> 
> When Fedex informs me that a package has come, I drive to pick it up; I don't let them deliver it.


 
 I heard that they deliver by elephant to the Pink City. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It's snowing again, I wish I was in Goa..


----------



## x838nwy

umustbkidn said:


> I have you beat. I'm still holding out. Though I have to admit, I've had my finger on the shopping cart button, more than once.




It was a short discussion with a guy from my local headphone shop that broke me... There's no better value in hifi these days, we agreed...


----------



## Snips

umustbkidn said:


> I have you beat. I'm still holding out. Though I have to admit, I've had my finger on the shopping cart button, more than once.


 
  
 Go for it. The Vali is cheap enough that you shouldn't feel all that bad even if you don't like it.
  
 Well, cheap in comparison to other stuff anyway.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> I heard that they deliver by elephant to the Pink City.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 And in the interior, it's done by camels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Goa is gorgeous this time of year.


----------



## naimless

k.t. said:


> Yeah, me too. What's up with you?
> 
> Regarding the Dragonfly, I got the 1.2 version.
> 
> ...



I've heard that's the main difference between the two Dragonfly versions ,ver 2 having the warmer sound.


----------



## StanD

Since yesterday's arrival I can say the Bifrost is welcome to stay. So far I've used it in the below combinations with my HD600 and HE-500. I now have 3 pieces of Schiit.
 Bifrost Uber USB + Vali = Outstanding
 Bifrost Uber USB + Asgard 2 = Outstanding


----------



## Snips

stand said:


> Since yesterday's arrival I can say the Bifrost is welcome to stay. So far I've used it in the below combinations with my HD600 and HE-500. I now have 3 pieces of Schiit.
> Bifrost Uber USB + Vali = Outstanding
> Bifrost Uber USB + Asgard 2 = Outstanding


 
  
 I want to get a 3rd piece of Schiit eventually since I want to get back to tube rolling, although I probably will wait for a Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2.


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> I want to get a 3rd piece of Schiit eventually since I want to get back to tube rolling, although I probably will wait for a Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2.


 
 You want to wait, but the question is can you wait?


----------



## x838nwy

Can't remember what happened last time i ordered from Schiit. But do i get an e-mail when my order ships or something? All i have is a sort of order confirmation with no particular information on its status. No biggie, just would like to know if this is normal...

Ty


----------



## RickB

x838nwy said:


> Can't remember what happened last time i ordered from Schiit. But do i get an e-mail when my order ships or something? All i have is a sort of order confirmation with no particular information on its status. No biggie, just would like to know if this is normal...
> 
> Ty


 

 When it ships you'll get a confirmation email with a tracking number.


----------



## Dionysus

The Vali is an excellent sounding amp and for the money it's a no brainer regardless of the can, the Modi however is a different story it's a nice entry level little Dac but my Asus E-1 Dac sounded better. I kept the Vali and the Modi went back.


----------



## phillyd

Xonar Essence One is a $600 DAC. Why is this even a question? Should've gotten an Uberfrost or for an upgrade, a gungnir.


----------



## mrlazybums

Do most people find that the Modi pairs well with the Vali, or is there a better $100-$200 DAC to pair with the Vali?


----------



## phillyd

I personally think the Modi is a great match for the Vali.


----------



## HPiper

Funny when the Modi first came out people couldn't get enough of it and it was the best little dac on the planet. Now a lot of people are starting to put it down.
 I guess the newness wore off.
 There are hundreds of better dacs, but very few of them cost less than $100.


----------



## Snips

hpiper said:


> Funny when the Modi first came out people couldn't get enough of it and it was the best little dac on the planet. Now a lot of people are starting to put it down.
> I guess the newness wore off.
> There are hundreds of better dacs, but very few of them cost less than $100.


 
  
 Well it's probably one of the best at it's price. Everyone probably got drunk on all the hype and excitement back then.


----------



## phillyd

Honestly the same goes for the Vali. People are on the hype about how it's the best thing on earth, but really it's just a good amp at a great price. It is an exceptional value but not so much so that it's not worth spending more to get more.


----------



## Dionysus

phillyd said:


> Xonar Essence One is a $600 DAC. Why is this even a question? Should've gotten an Uberfrost or for an upgrade, a gungnir.




I didn't need to purchase either, and I wasn't comparing. What I said was the the Essence sounds better so I am using its Dac instead of having both. It didn't make sense for me to keep the Modi if the E-1 Dac is going to sound better, which it does. The original idea was to have a portable setup, but I have toss that idea out the window and just having one ultra high end setup, I just sold the E-1 and in the process of deciding on a new Amp/Dac setup, along with the HD800 I just purchased.


----------



## jexby

hpiper said:


> Funny when the Modi first came out people couldn't get enough of it and it was the best little dac on the planet. Now a lot of people are starting to put it down.
> I guess the newness wore off.
> There are hundreds of better dacs, but very few of them cost less than $100.


 
  
 I recognize the existence of "hundreds of better DACs" yet I'd settle for knowing a few "good-great ones" in the $200-$350 price bracket.
 don't get me wrong Bifrost Uber is superb, $500+ and with inputs I'll never use.
 just need quality USB, and Concero HD is that, but again in the $700-$800 range.
  
 looking at the Wyred4Sound a bit, their USB DAC is around $400....
 oh when will my Geek Pulse Xfe ship?


----------



## ssrock64

I prefer the ODAC over the Modi for most applications, including in my brief listen to the Vali. Just my two cents, though.


----------



## phillyd

The ODAC should be a nicer DAC.


----------



## StanD

You guys are going to drive me to vinyl. Just kidding


----------



## ssrock64

stand said:


> You guys are going to drive me to vinyl. Just kidding


 

 I've never had a vinyl rig with a noise floor low enough to satisfy me, but I've never really been very serious about my vinyl rig in the first place. I prefer the convenience and range of product choices that the digital realm provides.


----------



## StanD

ssrock64 said:


> I've never had a vinyl rig with a noise floor low enough to satisfy me, but I've never really been very serious about my vinyl rig in the first place. I prefer the convenience and range of product choices that the digital realm provides.


 
 Digital doesn't wear out.


----------



## fenderf4i

ssrock64 said:


> I've never had a vinyl rig with a noise floor low enough to satisfy me, but I've never really been very serious about my vinyl rig in the first place. I prefer the convenience and range of product choices that the digital realm provides.


 
  
  
 I put a lot of time into learning proper cartridge setup, and keeping the records clean, and my vinyl setup is dead quiet. It is very possible with some effort, but most people don't put the effort in, which is fine. I enjoy both vinyl and digital equally.
  
 On another note, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a Vali. Very very close.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> I put a lot of time into learning proper cartridge setup, and keeping the records clean, and my vinyl setup is dead quiet. It is very possible with some effort, but most people don't put the effort in, which is fine. I enjoy both vinyl and digital equally.
> 
> On another note, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a Vali. Very very close.


 
 Bang bang


----------



## fenderf4i

stand said:


> Bang bang


 
  
  
 It's on its way.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> It's on its way.


 
 So you'll end up having the Bifrost, Asgard 2 and a Val. I also have all three. You can never get enough Schiit. You can't make this Schiit up.


----------



## UmustBKidn

stand said:


> Digital doesn't wear out.


 


stand said:


> You guys are going to drive me to vinyl. Just kidding


 
  
 So, which is it going to be?
  
 Once upon a time, I knew a man who ran a bootleg radio station out of his apartment in some South Bay beach city (Redondo, Hermosa, somewhere thereabouts). This and his CB radio hobby were what he did with his spare time. I met him once and he invited me over to look at his setup. Wow. Just Wow. The most impressive thing was his record collection. Try to imagine this: he had a large walk in closet, with shelves floor to ceiling, along 3 walls, absolutely filled with records. I mean, filled. He didn't need anything to hold them up, it was that full. This was in the late 70's.
  
 I often wondered what he did with them all when CD's came out.


----------



## sonic2911

Magni or Vali for HE-300, I'm confusing :-s


----------



## StanD

umustbkidn said:


> So, which is it going to be?
> 
> Once upon a time, I knew a man who ran a bootleg radio station out of his apartment in some South Bay beach city (Redondo, Hermosa, somewhere thereabouts). This and his CB radio hobby were what he did with his spare time. I met him once and he invited me over to look at his setup. Wow. Just Wow. The most impressive thing was his record collection. Try to imagine this: he had a large walk in closet, with shelves floor to ceiling, along 3 walls, absolutely filled with records. I mean, filled. He didn't need anything to hold them up, it was that full. This was in the late 70's.
> 
> I often wondered what he did with them all when CD's came out.


 
 You must be kidding. Why don't you ask him? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Did your neighbors have bad TV reception? Bad boy


----------



## Rudiger

sonic2911 said:


> Magni or Vali for HE-300, I'm confusing :-s



I vote for the vali. But it depend if you prefer solid state or tube sound.


----------



## Sonido

rudiger said:


> I vote for the vali. But it depend if you prefer solid state or tube sound.



Except the Vali is not what people generally describe as "tube" sounding at all. Don't go looking for that tube warmth with the Vali.


----------



## Rudiger

sonido said:


> Except the Vali is not what people generally describe as "tube" sounding at all. Don't go looking for that tube warmth with the Vali.



I read that opinion but IMO the Vali is tube sounding. I find that the Vali sound is much closer to the Lyr.


----------



## Sonido

rudiger said:


> I read that opinion but IMO the Vali is tube sounding. I find that the Vali sound is much closer to the Lyr.



Both Lyr and Vali are hybrid amps. Try an OTL amp and you'll know what tubiness really is.


----------



## sonic2911

rudiger said:


> I vote for the vali. But it depend if you prefer solid state or tube sound.


 
  
 solid and tube, which is better for all genres?


----------



## Sonido

sonic2911 said:


> solid and tube, which is better for all genres?



Depends on your headphones more than anything else imo.


----------



## Rudiger

(He have HE-300) Difficult to answer. It is less a matter of genre of music than type of sound you may like. Vali highlights instruments in front, Magni is more speed and airy but less engaging. Personally I have not yet managed to make my choice between the two. For the moment. ... Well... maybe a slight inclination to Vali. ...But it is not yet final  choice. I am waiting for my Alpha Dog to decide... 
  
 In any case one thing is certain: both are good, you can not make bad choice.
  
  
 EDIT : I do not know the HE-300, but the Vali is best for the HE-500 than the Magni I think without hesitation. So I think this is also the case for the 300. What do think others?


----------



## Rudiger

sonido said:


> Both Lyr and Vali are hybrid amps. Try an OTL amp and you'll know what tubiness really is.


 
 Agree. Yes, I admit that I don't know the true sound of tubes. But I'm not sure I'd like it. I imagine that hybrids are a good compromise for me because I find the solid state many qualities.


----------



## sonic2911

sonido said:


> Depends on your headphones more than anything else imo.


 
  


sonido said:


> Depends on your headphones more than anything else imo.


 
  
 so what is the main difference between solid and tube? I don't have any tube amp before


----------



## Misterrogers

rudiger said:


> Agree. Yes, I admit that I don't know the true sound of tubes. But I'm not sure I'd like it.


 
 As with most things in audio, it's very much about the implementation/execution. OTL amps can sound very slow, warm or saturated with harmonics - or they can should linear, fast with well a well controlled character. Components used, the load placed on the tubes(s), where the load sits in a tubes curve, feedback design, etc, etc. While you can make generalizations, you could find your ideal sound sits where you least expected it. That's part of the fun of audio.


----------



## Sonido

sonic2911 said:


> so what is the main difference between solid and tube? I don't have any tube amp before







misterrogers said:


> As with most things in audio, it's very much about the implementation/execution. OTL amps can sound very *slow, warm or saturated with harmonics* - or they can should linear, fast with well a well controlled character. Components used, the load placed on the tubes(s), where the load sits in a tubes curve, feedback design, etc, etc. While you can make generalizations, you could find your ideal sound sits where you least expected it. That's part of the fun of audio.



That's probably what is stereotypically considered the tube sound, and usually what people are referring to when they talk about a tubey sound. Good to counter bright headphones that peak in treble like T90 or HD800.


----------



## K.T.

Funny, I don't usually reverse my opinion, but I'm going to here.

Previously, I reported that my HE-400 sounded good but under-powered with my Vali, and didn't think it was a good pairing. Well, I tried it again and the combo sounds great!

I don't know if the Vali burned in some more, or if the HE-400 burned in some more, or the source was a better match, but this time I was blown away at how good it sounded. Maybe my brain burned in some, but I haven't been listening to the 400's with the Vali at all, and this time it sounded great. So no slow acclimation period for me to get used to the combo. Just, boom, great sound right away.

One great synergy is that the Vali doesn't exacerbate the prominent treble of the 400. Rather, it controls it well and the sound is snappy but natural and very listenable. On the Asgard 2, the treble was way too steely in my system.

Great sound!


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> That's probably what is stereotypically considered the tube sound, and usually what people are referring to when they talk about a tubey sound. Good to counter bright headphones that peak in treble like T90 or HD800.


 
 I'm not so sure it's going to resolve a peak in the treble. The peak will still be there and adding more even harmonics to what is up there may not make much of any difference. For example if you have a peak at 7 kHz, the second harmonic is at 14 kHz, the rest are well beyond what we can hear. Why would adding more to the second harmonic at 14 kHz tame that peak? I think the tube sound adds warm (even) harmonics (timbre) to musical notes of far lower pitches, which is a different situation. Perhaps the tube sound of a traditional pure tube amp with an output transformer adds to the sound, but guitar players want different things like soft overloading and saturated output transformer sounds that we definitely don't want. Wouldn't you say that depending on the design a hybrid adds some measure of the tube sound?


----------



## Sonido

stand said:


> I'm not so sure it's going to resolve a peak in the treble. The peak will still be there and adding more even harmonics to what is up there may not make much of any difference. For example if you have a peak at 7 kHz, the second harmonic is at 14 kHz, the rest are well beyond what we can hear. Why would adding more to the second harmonic at 14 kHz tame that peak? I think the tube sound adds warm (even) harmonics (timbre) to musical notes of far lower pitches, which is a different situation. Perhaps the tube sound of a traditional pure tube amp with an output transformer adds to the sound, but guitar players want different things like soft overloading and saturated output transformer sounds that we definitely don't want. Wouldn't you say that depending on the design a hybrid adds some measure of the tube sound?


 

 I think it's more that it adds more warmth (bass), so the treble doesn't stick out as much.


----------



## StanD

sonido said:


> I think it's more that it adds more warmth (bass), so the treble doesn't stick out as much.


 
 There is an element of truth to that because as we focus more on bass we are less able to resolve fine details of treble. I don't think it's going to be enough to mask a nasty treble resonance that causes a silabance that can create a burning sensation in my eyes.


----------



## Totoori

My Vali has extreme ringing. I'm talking if I cough or move the cord or anything it will ring. They have approved what I assume is an RMA for me, but shipping is pretty expensive. They told me I could try doing the push-down things people have found as a solution first.
  
 My problem is, I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't even know what a tube looks like. Is there some sort of visual instruction on how I should go about doing this?


----------



## StanD

totoori said:


> My Vali has extreme ringing. I'm talking if I cough or move the cord or anything it will ring. They have approved what I assume is an RMA for me, but shipping is pretty expensive. They told me I could try doing the push-down things people have found as a solution first.
> 
> My problem is, I have no idea what I'm doing. I don't even know what a tube looks like. Is there some sort of visual instruction on how I should go about doing this?


 
 Can you find someone that has any electronic skills? Try finding an Electrical Engineering student at a local university, preferably one that has been at it for a couple of years and has done lab work.


----------



## phillyd

Someone should be able to take some pictures. If you open the Vali, it will be the obvious glass things in the center/rightish.


----------



## Totoori

stand said:


> Can you find someone that has any electronic skills? Try finding an Electrical Engineering student at a local university, preferably one that has been at it for a couple of years and has done lab work.


 
 Hah!

 Local University? I don't even have a local corner store. If it's as easy as people say I'll give it a shot later if I can find some tools to open it up =)


----------



## StanD

totoori said:


> Hah!
> 
> Local University? I don't even have a local corner store. If it's as easy as people say I'll give it a shot later if I can find some tools to open it up =)


 
 Just look before you leap and be gentle. As my dad used to say, measure twice and cut once.


----------



## Snips

You see those two glass tubes in the middle? Just make sure that they are pushed down and lying on the foam like in the picture,


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> You see those two glass tubes in the middle? Just make sure that they are pushed down and lying on the foam like in the picture,


 
 If he has an early model the leads from the tubes aren't pre-bent at the PCB and will give the tubes a springy tension that pulls them away from the sticky pads and they will eventually pop loose again, Assuming that's the problem, unstuck tubes. Hopefully Totoori can sort this out and get back to enjoying his Vali.


----------



## HiFiKolohe

I received my new Vali today and from the minute I plugged my headphones the ringing was very loud from the left channel without even wearing them. I left the HPs plugged in for a few minutes without music playing and eventually the ringing diminished but it was still barely audible so I thought great!! problem solved, until I simply pressed play on the first track on my computer and the loud ringing started again, this time from both channels. It seems no matter what I do, wether I touch the case, volume knob, the HP cord, the mouse, scratch my head, it triggers the loud ringing. I've read this ringing is normal for inexpensive tube amps but I can't tolerate it, it's too loud even with the headphones off. My fiancee even asked what that ringing was, she was trying to rest on the couch 10 feet away from me. I'm calling Schiit Audio tomorrow, hopefully their customer service is as good as some have claimed, wish me luck.


----------



## Rudiger

k.t. said:


> Funny, I don't usually reverse my opinion, but I'm going to here.
> 
> Previously, I reported that my HE-400 sounded good but under-powered with my Vali, and didn't think it was a good pairing. Well, I tried it again and the combo sounds great!
> 
> ...


 
 What changing in sources ?
 By the way, I find the combo  Bifrost Uber => Vali => HE-500 excellent.
 But... =>


----------



## Rudiger

deleted


----------



## Sonido

stand said:


> There is an element of truth to that because as we focus more on bass we are less able to resolve fine details of treble. I don't think it's going to be enough to mask a nasty treble resonance that causes a silabance that can create a burning sensation in my eyes.



Alas the holy grail of having both a tactile bass and airy treble seems unattainable.


----------



## peenemunde

Bummer   I had high hopes for this one!

 Looks like I'll be saving up for something bigger and better


----------



## prsut

rudiger said:


> I also have problems Ringing. It was on both sides (it was loud even if I move the cable or lightly touch the volume knob ...)
> I looked inside the tubes were well sealed. I sent Vali repair from France... Shipping at our expense .....
> Well... it was ok the first day... but now *I have again the problem on the right side*...
> (Do you know if the tube visible without opening is that which corresponds to the right side? Because it is well coated.)
> ...


 

 My Vali is not ringing, but for EU users it seems shipping for warranty repair is really high. I am thinking about buying some 6088 tubes from ebay for reserve. For $15 one from 10 tubes MUST be ok...


----------



## sonic2911

I don't know how Schiit response about this ringing problem. If they don't solve it, magni will be a better choice.


----------



## Rudiger

prsut said:


> My Vali is not ringing, but for EU users it seems shipping for warranty repair is really high. I am thinking about buying some 6088 tubes from ebay for reserve. For $15 one from 10 tubes MUST be ok...


 

 Wow pretty cheap. Unfortunately I'm not very handy. Just simply use a soldering iron for replacement ?


----------



## CJs06

Wow this thread is still going strong about ringing... Accept it, the ringing is a feature of the Vali


----------



## Snips

cjs06 said:


> Wow this thread is still going strong about ringing... Accept it, the ringing is a feature of the Vali


 
  
 Surprisingly the ringing on my own unit can barely be heard. To the point where I can totally dismiss and ignore it.


----------



## CJs06

snips said:


> Surprisingly the ringing on my own unit can barely be heard. To the point where I can totally dismiss and ignore it.


 
 Thats fortunate! Mine is quite ringable but I'm weird and like that it rings, it gives the Vali character.


----------



## Rudiger

cjs06 said:


> Wow this thread is still going strong about ringing... Accept it, the ringing is a feature of the Vali


 

 It is a feature that it ring on the right side even if I* move the cable* of headphones or* lightly touch* the volume knob ?
 Cool feature... after all, I just have to stay immobile.


----------



## x838nwy

Order placed on Sunday. No shipping notification. Should i worry?


----------



## Snips

x838nwy said:


> Order placed on Sunday. No shipping notification. Should i worry?


 
  
 Perhaps you can try emailing them.


----------



## sonic2911

did anyone try to change the tubes to solve the ringing problem?


----------



## Snips

sonic2911 said:


> did anyone try to change the tubes to solve the ringing problem?


 
  
 The tubes are soldered directly to the PCB though. Won't it void the warranty if we change them ourself?


----------



## phillyd

Edit: wrong thread


----------



## sonic2911

snips said:


> The tubes are soldered directly to the PCB though. Won't it void the warranty if we change them ourself?


 

 so we can't sort this out by ourself. -,- so disappointed


----------



## mrlazybums

My Vali + Modi is on the way! =)


----------



## x838nwy

mrlazybums said:


> My Vali + Modi is on the way! =)




When did you place your order btw?


----------



## mrlazybums

x838nwy said:


> When did you place your order btw?


 
  
 I bought off a forum member =)


----------



## x838nwy

mrlazybums said:


> I bought off a forum member =)




Ahh.


----------



## fenderf4i

x838nwy said:


> Ahh.


 
  
  
 I placed an order for a Vali on Wednesday evening, and received the shipping email yesterday.


----------



## CrunchyChick

hifikolohe said:


> I received my new Vali today and from the minute I plugged my headphones the ringing was very loud from the left channel without even wearing them. I left the HPs plugged in for a few minutes without music playing and eventually the ringing diminished but it was still barely audible so I thought great!! problem solved, until I simply pressed play on the first track on my computer and the loud ringing started again, this time from both channels. It seems no matter what I do, wether I touch the case, volume knob, the HP cord, the mouse, scratch my head, it triggers the loud ringing. I've read this ringing is normal for inexpensive tube amps but I can't tolerate it, it's too loud even with the headphones off. My fiancee even asked what that ringing was, she was trying to rest on the couch 10 feet away from me. I'm calling Schiit Audio tomorrow, hopefully their customer service is as good as some have claimed, wish me luck.


 
 Thats definitely not normal.  I only ever get a slight ringing when the Vali first "clicks" on after the 15s mute.  After that it only rings if I whack it intentionally.  You should open it up and see if the tubes are sticking up (customer service will likely recommend this)
  
 BTW, what headphones are they that you can hear the ringing even with them off your head?  Must be something pretty sensitive?


----------



## x838nwy

fenderf4i said:


> I placed an order for a Vali on Wednesday evening, and received the shipping email yesterday.




Mine just shipped


----------



## fenderf4i

x838nwy said:


> Mine just shipped




Excellent. I hope we get good ones!!


----------



## UmustBKidn

cjs06 said:


> Wow this thread is still going strong about ringing... Accept it, the ringing is a feature of the Vali


 
  
 Funny about how social media is... well... social, like that.


----------



## XVampireX

Hi, Pulled the trigger on this, how is it with LCD-3's and HD700? 
  
 Also how will it be with HD600 cause a friend was asking me for a good tube amp suggestion and I looked against into schiit vali and thought the specs look rather fantastic, he's interested in eliminating as much as possible Sibilance and treble harshness
  
 This is for me something until GS-X mk2 
  
 Edit: It happened in the following way, after work we were talking he asked me to find him an amp I keep telling him about bottlehead crack, then I went home,  thought to look on head-fi what is recommended, then remembered Schiit Vali, went on the website looked at specs, pressed the button, and bam the next hour I was spending time figuring out how all this internet buying works XD


----------



## Snips

xvampirex said:


> Hi, Pulled the trigger on this, how is it with LCD-3's and HD700?
> 
> Also how will it be with HD600 cause a friend was asking me for a good tube amp suggestion and I looked against into schiit vali and thought the specs look rather fantastic, he's interested in eliminating as much as possible Sibilance and treble harshness
> 
> ...


 
  
 It pairs well with the HD600. Quite a few of us here really enjoy our HD600s with the Vali. I'm pretty damn sensitive to bright sounding stuff though, so the Vali actually sounds a bit bright for certain tracks. Other than that it's wonderful. I would have written down my own impressions, but I'm not too good at describing what I hear.


----------



## New Yorker

CNET's Steve Guttenberg just reviewed the Vali:
 http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57619279-47/schiit-audios-tiny-but-powerful-$119-tube-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## K.T.

Yes, the Vali is pretty great with the HD600. And I'm pretty picky about harsh treble, too. Have no fear.

Steve Guttenberg's review puts the Magni very close to the Vali. 

Whenever I compare the two, I come away thinking the Vali is more musical by far.


----------



## XVampireX

I cancelled the order, I heard it's not good with orthodynamics and noise floor and macrophonics would be a bother with them, as my primary headphones are the LCD-3, I decided atm against it....


----------



## StanD

xvampirex said:


> I cancelled the order, I heard it's not good with orthodynamics and noise floor and macrophonics would be a bother with them, as my primary headphones are the LCD-3, I decided atm against it....


 
 I use it with an HE-500. Although you can't melt the ears off the sides of your head with it, it does a decent job of it. I believe there are different versions of the LCD3 that can deliver 115 dB SPL anywhere from 232 mW to 484 mW. The Vali can deliver 550 mW at 50 Ohms. That's no so bad, especially if you have the more sensitive version. I would think that he noise floor would be a problem with sensitive IEMs or headphones that are far more sensitive than the LCD3's. Maybe the Asgard 2 is more up your alley, it works great with my HE-500's.


----------



## abhinit90

If it's worth anything, the ringing(totally manageable) increased when I applied the rubber feet


----------



## Snips

Huh, it looks as if a lot of the newer Vali units are suffering from above-average ringing.


----------



## Rudiger

kstuart said:


> I don't know that there is a general consensus on the Vali at all, opinions seem to vary widely, and there is possibly some variations between individual units (impossible to verify until two units are in the same room).
> 
> My opinion with the Alpha Dog is that A) the Vali doesn't have quite enough power to make the AD work at its best, B) the Vali has weak points (timbre and soundstage) that nullify big strong points of the AD.   My feeling is that when you are paying more than $300 for a headphone, you should have equipment that takes advantage of the improvements of the more expensive headphones.
> 
> (...)


 
 I compare since yesterday. I totally agree with you. The Alpha Dogs lacks Soundstage with the Vali.  The Magni is better with these cans IMO.
  
 EDIT : I'm not sure now ...  I listen more with the Vali. Sounds fuller, more body. Maybe a good complementary. As Vali have less Soundstage, the AD compensates favorably.
 Definitively, it's a matter of taste, they are both good with the Ad's IMO. Vali is "fun", have "punch" (PRAAT), Magni is more clean, faithful to the source IMO.


----------



## RedBull

Checking in with the new Vali yesterday. Dead quiet with hd650, zero, nada, no ring. Touch, change volume, silent, only gorgeous music, wonderful mids.


----------



## Snips

redbull said:


> Checking in with the new Vali yesterday. Dead quiet with hd650, zero, nada, no ring. Touch, change volume, silent, only gorgeous music, wonderful mids.


 
  
 Haha it's good to see someone with a new and quiet Vali. All the complaints recently are rather disheartening.


----------



## RedBull

I am prepared for slight ringing, but thank God i got the perfect one. it definitely make my hd650 come alive, make vocal sounds alive and seductive like my ad2000.


----------



## CJs06

Ringing, my Vali has it. Thought I'd let y'all know.


----------



## monkuboy

My Vali rings like Jason described it on the site.  I hear it when I turn it on or plug in headphones, but after about 15 seconds it is gone.  I don't notice any further ringing during normal listening.  I did put a 1.5" diameter circle of sorbothane under it instead of the little feet that come with the unit, though.  Maybe that helps. After the ring goes away, the background is silent. I am using Senn 650's and it sounds great.


----------



## fenderf4i

monkuboy said:


> My Vali rings like Jason described it on the site.  I hear it when I turn it on or plug in headphones, but after about 15 seconds it is gone.  I don't notice any further ringing during normal listening.  I did put a 1.5" diameter circle of sorbothane under it instead of the little feet that come with the unit, though.  Maybe that helps. After the ring goes away, the background is silent. I am using Senn 650's and it sounds great.


 
  
  
 I will definitely be trying sorbothane feet on mine when it arrives. I have a bunch of small ones kicking around that will be perfect for it.


----------



## FraGGleR

I had one of the earlier ones (ordered within the first hour of availability) and it rang at the slightest touch or even loud cough.  The ringing didn't typically last very long, but anything could set it off.  After a month or so, I developed a non-ringing crackling in one of my channels and had to send it back.  The replacement that I have received is much, much more resistant to ringing.  A little bit when plugging in, but after that I can even tap on the case without any ringing.  I was happy already with this amp, but now that I have less ringing and no more crackling, I am supremely happy with the amp and with Schiit's service.


----------



## RedBull

Fyi, I use mine with the supplied feet without any ringing. Really solid sounding amp, it sound bold, plenty of detail, and has longer decay just like a proper tube amp. I am very very happy man.


----------



## dragonfly50

I have a Vali on the way. Now, I'm thinking Schiit doesn't have an effective way to test the microphonics of their 6088 stock, so they rely on customer feedback from actual units in the field. They just happily agree to fix the ones that get complaints. Saves time since only these new boards get a listen to make sure it's fixed.
  
 Fairly understandable, but they COULD simply give a quick listen to every unit before shipping. Takes too much time? There must be a final test procedure anyway. Do they give a Schiit about sending the customer an unacceptably ringing amp?
  
 So, really hoping to get a good one, one that makes a good partner for my AKG K601, Beyer DT250-250, or Senn HD580.


----------



## CrunchyChick

dragonfly50 said:


> I have a Vali on the way. Now, I'm thinking Schiit doesn't have an effective way to test the microphonics of their 6088 stock, so they rely on customer feedback from actual units in the field. They just happily agree to fix the ones that get complaints. Saves time since only these new boards get a listen to make sure it's fixed.
> 
> Fairly understandable, but they COULD simply give a quick listen to every unit before shipping. Takes too much time? There must be a final test procedure anyway. Do they give a Schiit about sending the customer an unacceptably ringing amp?
> 
> So, really hoping to get a good one, one that makes a good partner for my AKG K601, Beyer DT250-250, or Senn HD580.


 
 somewhere in this thread they said they test for unacceptable ringers now


----------



## dragonfly50

Thanks! I found Jason's post, and hope their "noise sort" keeps the bad ringers out of circulation now.


----------



## seb7

seb7 said:


> Hmmm..might get this since it's so cheap.


 
  
  
 I forgot I posted this back in October.  I just ordered it.


----------



## Billheiser

Got my Vali 2 days ago, have just a few hours on it.  So far it's a little more "solid-state" sounding than I had expected, but will see after it gets significant hours.  It does ring, on the right channel especially, for 20 seconds or so, when tapped or moved. Gentle use of volume knob elicits no ringing.  I like the amp but hope it gets better.
 (first post on head-fi)


----------



## CEE TEE

^Welcome!  Congrats on first post.  I still really like my Vali.  It does sound better after warming up.  Leave the amp on a lot and get some hours on it.  Think they do get better.
  
 Was comparing with Crack the other day and I do get a bit bigger headstage and more bass with HD800 on the Crack but I am trying to put together a bedside rig with it due to awesome form factor.
  
 My ODAC is lent out but after trying different combos, I want to try phone to ODAC to Vali next and if it sounds like I think it will sound...I'll try to make a mounting bracket for Vali and go vertical on the nightstand.  
  
 Or upside-down under my IKEA Svartasen:


----------



## FraGGleR

cee tee said:


> ^Welcome!  Congrats on first post.  I still really like my Vali.  It does sound better after warming up.  Leave the amp on a lot and get some hours on it.  Think they do get better.
> 
> Was comparing with Crack the other day and I do get a bit bigger headstage and more bass with HD800 on the Crack but I am trying to put together a bedside rig with it due to awesome form factor.
> 
> ...


 
 I like the idea of mounting the Vali plus a compact DAC somewhere.  What were you thinking for a bracket?


----------



## CEE TEE

^SolidWorks and maybe even just something thick enough to 3D print.  
  
 But I am thinking that bent sheet metal with some rubber pads to protect the Vali should work.  
  
 I'd like to use 3M Command Strips to affix the bracket rather than using screws and marking up the nightstand or IKEA piece.
  
 Thought about directly mounting the Vali with said Command Strips but figure that I would still like to be able to move the Vali around.
  
 But I do now have 2 Valis (one older production/one newer production- yes they both sound good).
  
 Anyway- next step, ODAC trial after I get it back.  Then sketching up the bracket...would work for Modi and Magni too.


----------



## seb7

redbull said:


> I am prepared for slight ringing, but thank God i got the perfect one. it definitely make my hd650 come alive, make vocal sounds alive and seductive like my ad2000.


 
  
 Just got mine today and I haven't had any ringing at all, so another perfect one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I put it on some vibrapods.
 Listening with my HD800s and I am quite impressed so far at the sound coming out of this tiny thing.
  

 Edit: Just switched headphones and there was some ringing but it lasted only about 5 seconds.


----------



## Spiral Out

> Anyway- next step, ODAC trial after I get it back. Then sketching up the bracket...would work for Modi and Magni too


 
  
 Please post your impressions of the Vali/Odac combo. I have a Vali now and am eagerly awaiting an Odac via Priority Mail, which evidently the postal service doesn't seem to want me to have. It's ok, it was supposed to be here Wednesday (2/26) and it's only 4 days late now........bastards.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> Please post your impressions of the Vali/Odac combo. I have a Vali now and am eagerly awaiting an Odac via Priority Mail, which evidently the postal service doesn't seem to want me to have. It's ok, it was supposed to be here Wednesday (2/26) and it's only 4 days late now........bastards.


 
 Next time don't use the Pony Express, the horses have to eat and rest and .....


----------



## Spiral Out

> Next time don't use the Pony Express, the horses have to eat and rest and .....


 

 Damn Skippy! I think they used chromosomally challenged mules for this one though. No more Priority Mail and " your guess is as good as ours" expected delivery dates for me. If I give a crap about something getting to me on time I'm going with another carrier.


----------



## StanD

spiral out said:


> Damn Skippy! I think they used chromosomally challenged mules for this one though. No more Priority Mail and " your guess is as good as ours" expected delivery dates for me. If I give a crap about something getting to me on time I'm going with another carrier.


 
 Mules are actually rather smart. They'll tell you, "You want cooperation, get a horse, we don't do tricks or take requests." By now they've opened the box and are grooving with your ODAC.


----------



## Spiral Out




----------



## Billheiser

cee tee said:


> ^Welcome!  Congrats on first post.  I still really like my Vali.  It does sound better after warming up.  Leave the amp on a lot and get some hours on it.  Think they do get better.
> 
> Was comparing with Crack the other day and I do get a bit bigger headstage and more bass with HD800 on the Crack but I am trying to put together a bedside rig with it due to awesome form factor.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks!  Had it playing music for hours yesterday and some today.  I think it's already sounding better, although I've not been playing the same music, maybe I'm just playing more favorite stuff.
 I also plan to move the Vali into a bedside system after a while.  I like the pictured stand idea.  I'd like to go phone -> DAC -> Vali also, but I don't know how to get digital out of an iPhone 5c with the lightning connector.  I guess that would be on a different forum, but if you have any quick suggestions on that...


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Thanks!  Had it playing music for hours yesterday and some today.  I think it's already sounding better, although I've not been playing the same music, maybe I'm just playing more favorite stuff.
> I also plan to move the Vali into a bedside system after a while.  I like the pictured stand idea.  I'd like to go phone -> DAC -> Vali also, but I don't know how to get digital out of an iPhone 5c with the lightning connector.  I guess that would be on a different forum, but if you have any quick suggestions on that...


 
 I believe you would need the Apple CCK (Camera Connection Kit).


----------



## Billheiser

stand said:


> I believe you would need the Apple CCK (Camera Connection Kit).


 
 Thanks.  I just looked it up on the Apple site, and it seems to be made just for iPad, not iPhone.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just tried it with the iPhone5 > CCK > USB Cable > DAC > Vali and it works. Not sure all DACs with work with iOS devices so you'll have to test it with yours.
 Quote:


billheiser said:


> Thanks.  I just looked it up on the Apple site, and it seems to be made just for iPad, not iPhone.


----------



## Billheiser

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Ooh!  Great!  I'll try it out w/ some schiit.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I believe you would need the Apple CCK (Camera Connection Kit).


 
  
  


billheiser said:


> Thanks.  I just looked it up on the Apple site, and it seems to be made just for iPad, not iPhone.


 
 Read the below link. Apple’s Lightning to USB Camera Adapter, part number MD821ZM
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838


----------



## Billheiser

Excellent, thanks!


----------



## RedBull

seb7 said:


> Just got mine today and I haven't had any ringing at all, so another perfect one  I put it on some vibrapods.
> Listening with my HD800s and I am quite impressed so far at the sound coming out of this tiny thing.
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah!! gimme five!

I am not quite impressed by the sound of thos thing, but VERY impressed. Can't believe it so small but yet sound so good.


----------



## fenderf4i

I just received and hooked up the Vali to my Bifrost Uber.
  
 Holy smokes! This thing screams!!!!
  
 I put small sorbothane feet on it instead of the included feet, so it floats on my desk. I can knock VERY hard on the wooden desk and not hear a thing through the Vali.
  
 As far as ringing, I have to give the chassis a pretty hard tap to even hear the faintest of ringing with my PS500's. Using the volume knob in a normal manner doesn't elicit any ringing at all.  Ringing is an absolute non issue.
  
 Much, MUCH better with my Grado's than the LD1+. Absolutely fantastic!


----------



## Matro5

fenderf4i said:


> I just received and hooked up the Vali to my Bifrost Uber. Holy smokes! This thing screams [....] with my PS500's [!!!!]


 
  
 Some careful editing reveals how I read your post. Please keep these impressions coming as I'm considering picking up a Vali to mate with my own beloved PS500s. Thanks!


----------



## fenderf4i

matro5 said:


> Some careful editing reveals how I read your post. Please keep these impressions coming as I'm considering picking up a Vali to mate with my own beloved PS500s. Thanks!




The combination is fantastic. I find it has a warm sound with lots of bass. You can hear the raised noise floor just a little bit when there is no music. It's my only complaint with the amp, but factoring in the price and how great it sounds, it's nothing to even think about. 

I'd say, order one!!


----------



## saer

fenderf4i said:


> I put small sorbothane feet on it instead of the included feet, so it floats on my desk.


 
  
 Been thinking about buying some sorbothane feet, is this the same brand you are using ?


----------



## x838nwy

Mine does not seem to ring with my hd800. Having said that, i have not been too enthusiastically tapping the thing,
Serial no. 779.

Sweet little amp this. Not the greatest digger of information and isn't interested in the furtherst reaches of the audio spectrum, but it dose the middle bit so very well.

Fwiw i was worried that they'd make it too "tubey" but they haven't. Doesn't seem boosted at either end to try to be something it isn't. Just good, honest amplification for less than some power cords. Amazing value and great fun. Bravo!


----------



## Snips

x838nwy said:


> Mine does not seem to ring with my hd800. Having said that, i have not been too enthusiastically tapping the thing,
> Serial no. 779.
> 
> Sweet little amp this. Not the greatest digger of information and isn't interested in the furtherst reaches of the audio spectrum, but it dose the middle bit so very well.
> ...


 
  
 The units have a serial number? Damn, I didn't notice


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> The units have a serial number? Damn, I didn't notice


 
 On back, on the label, next to the power switch.


----------



## prsut

(Open in new window with right mouse button for high quality view)
  

  
thats mine - no ringer. I have denons with 15Ohm adapter
  


 proudly sitting near OPPO103
  


 I also have fixed illumination leakage along volume knob. Maybe first official Vali mod posted ???
 Some pictures below along with other camera stuff...
  

  

  

  

  
 ---------------------------------------------  end of the illumination mod -----------------------------
  
 tubes..

  
 headphone conn, muting relay

  
 power capacitors

  
 line input connector

  
 rubber feets onto trianle

  
 Denon recabled with 15Ohm adapter

  
 d2000 recabled (moon-audio custom by Drew B.)

  
 Vali, next to Oppo


----------



## fenderf4i

Oh, I should have posted for those interested, that my serial number for the unit that I received yesterday is in the 1300's.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Oh, I should have posted for those interested, that my serial number for the unit that I received yesterday is in the 1300's.


 
 A newborn.


----------



## fenderf4i

stand said:


> A newborn.


 
  
 Yeah, and one without any birth defects!


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Yeah, and one without any birth defects!


 
 Mine is #786 and has no birth defects either. So far, knock on wood, has not contracted any illnesses.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Mine is #786 and has no birth defects either. So far, knock on wood, has not contracted any illnesses.


 
 hahaha, what constitutes an illness for an amplifier?


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Mine is #786 and has no birth defects either. So far, knock on wood, has not contracted any illnesses.


 
  
  


cjs06 said:


> hahaha, what constitutes an illness for an amplifier?


 
 Don't jinx me.


----------



## biodigitaljazz

Gonna grab one of these with the Sennheiser HD598 for my next headphone setup. Gonna be my first amp!


----------



## CJs06

I bought a DT990 Pro recently and I use it with my Vali+Modi. I really enjoy listening to Jazz with this combination more than anything else. Great bass response/extension along with sparkly highs; plus that warm tube sound.


----------



## K.T.

biodigitaljazz said:


> Gonna grab one of these with the Sennheiser HD598 for my next headphone setup. Gonna be my first amp!


 
  
 You will be happy. It's a great pairing. You're starting out with a very good rig.
  
 Great thing about the Vali is that is scales well. I can tell you it sounds great with the HD600 and Q701. Really good with HE-400, too.
  
 In reference to taming that bright light, I just opened up the case and snipped that LED right out. Doesn't hurt the funtioning of the amp in any way. That was done on my bedside Vali. That light is way to bright for sleeping near.
  
 I find that those soft, warm, orange biasing LEDs inside are plenty visible, and bright enough to let me know the amp is on but dim enough to be innocuous. Ironic that the warm orange glow is coming from the LEDs and not the tubes!


----------



## Billheiser

k.t. said:


> You will be happy. It's a great pairing. You're starting out with a very good rig.
> 
> Great thing about the Vali is that is scales well. I can tell you it sounds great with the HD600 and Q701. Really good with HE-400, too.
> 
> ...


B
I bought a product called "Dim-its", made for sticking on overly bright LED's & other things (like alarm clock displays). Works well on the bright Schiit led's. $5 buys you a sheet of different shapes & sizes, enough for a lifetime. I used to use a bit of masking tape or Post-it note, but the high-end $5 solution is better and more finished looking.


----------



## Snips

stand said:


> Mine is #786 and has no birth defects either. So far, knock on wood, has not contracted any illnesses.


 
  
 #900+ and no defects either. I even dropped mine when I first tried to take it out of the cardboard holder.
  
 Wonder what was up with all the bad units popping up from a few weeks ago.


----------



## Billheiser

#1330, with moderate ringing, 20 seconds, when tapped. No ringing when touched lightly/use volume control.


----------



## fenderf4i

saer said:


> Been thinking about buying some sorbothane feet, is this the same brand you are using ?


 
  
 This is what I have. I used the 3/4" size on the Vali, as that's the smallest size I had.


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> #900+ and no defects either. I even dropped mine when I first tried to take it out of the cardboard holder.
> 
> Wonder what was up with all the bad units popping up from a few weeks ago.


 
 Perhaps one morning one of the guys on the assembly line had a fight with his wife and couldn't concentrate on his work.


----------



## kothganesh

Serial number 001140 and no coughing, sneezing, headaches...er..ringing either.


----------



## prsut

k.t. said:


> You will be happy. It's a great pairing. You're starting out with a very good rig.
> 
> Great thing about the Vali is that is scales well. I can tell you it sounds great with the HD600 and Q701. Really good with HE-400, too.
> 
> ...


 

 There are no orange LED's. Illumination goes from tubes for sure....


----------



## fenderf4i

prsut said:


> There are no orange LED's. Illumination goes from tubes for sure....




No....


----------



## RedBull

Nice to hear so many people have healthy babies ...

Yesterday I tried with my grado sr-60 and the sound was ooohhhhhh, melt in my heart, so sexy and seductive, and that only direct from ipod line out.
I havent got a chance to try with my hd800 yet.


----------



## dragonfly50

Got lucky I guess. No 1348 and no evidence of ringing or noise with AKG K601. It's burning in and opening up nicely. I run it with volume in the last 1/4 of rotation, which kind of suprised me. This is with the Windows computer volume at 75 and Spotify around 50%. The objective for me has been to make the Vali do most of the amplification.
  
 Also a bit surprised how warm it gets for class AB output and low current heaters on 6088 tubes.


----------



## Billheiser

Run windows and spotify at full volume, they will do/sound best that way, in the digital domain.


----------



## dragonfly50

Thanks for chiming in! The sad truth is that I'm using the analog out from my HP (Beats Audio) minitower, so my thinking is to use less of the opamp amplification on the audio card. For now. I have a USB DAC that will get inserted in the system soon.


----------



## x838nwy

dragonfly50 said:


> Thanks for chiming in! The sad truth is that I'm using the analog out from my HP (Beats Audio) minitower, so my thinking is to use less of the opamp amplification on the audio card. For now. I have a USB DAC that will get inserted in the system soon.







billheiser said:


> Run windows and spotify at full volume, they will do/sound best that way, in the digital domain.




@dragonfly50

What billheiser meant is that the volume control in windows adversely affects sq considerably as it is not optimally done. It is done digitally which doesn't necessarily mean poorly, but in this instance, it is.

I believe what you will gain from by-passing the digital vc will far outweights what you might lose from the op amp working "harder".

P.s. May i suggest a modi for your next purchase? Or perhaps even an AQ DF?


----------



## dragonfly50

Yeah, I see your point, thanks.
  
 I'm trying to minimize the impact of whatever opamps are on the soundcard. Bypassing the soundcard is really the only effective approach, but for the moment since I'm driving K601 I had expected that the Vali could be emphasized as much as possible in the audio chain.
  
 I have a prototype USB DAC from a good friend and audio designer, but haven't put my hands on a pair of RCA cables yet tonight.
  
 The Modi sounds like good bet, regardless. How much of this Schiit will I end up buying, though?


----------



## Billheiser

Ok, i see. I suggest running spotify at 100% (no problem there, 100% is the "base" volume, and anything less is just attenuation, NOT less amplification like it would be on analog). Then set your windows volume accordingly so the Vali is running in its sweet spot, which is a nice wide range, say from 10% to 80% output. 

After you get your DAC, then run all digital volume in the computer at 100%, so the DAC gets all the bits it needs.


----------



## Billheiser

Btw, if all you lack right now is RCA cables, you probably have some around somewhere. Canniblize a pair from your tv, or run out to an all night drugstore, they'll have a cheap set that will do just fine for now!!


----------



## kothganesh

billheiser said:


> Ok, i see. I suggest running spotify at 100% (no problem there, 100% is the "base" volume, and anything less is just attenuation, NOT less amplification like it would be on analog). Then set your windows volume accordingly so the Vali is running in its sweet spot, which is a nice wide range, say from 10% to 80% output.
> 
> After you get your DAC, then run all digital volume in the computer at 100%, so the DAC gets all the bits it needs.


 
 You.ve got my attention. So would the equivalent on a Macbook be to set iTunes at 100% and my Amarra player also at 100% with only the volume pot on the Vali to manipulate ?


----------



## CJs06

kothganesh said:


> You.ve got my attention. So would the equivalent on a Macbook be to set iTunes at 100% and my Amarra player also at 100% with only the volume pot on the Vali to manipulate ?


Yes


----------



## HPiper

Is the Vali the same size as the Modi? Are they the same size as the Loki?. I was just thinking about the possibility of a triple stack with DSD playback. Pretty awesome for less than $500.


----------



## zoqi

I'm thinking about getting the Vali for my Sennheiser HD650, which I read should be an OK match. However, my other pair of favourite headphones are the Ultrasone Pro 900, anyone here who has tested the Pro 900 with Vali? The Pro 900 has an 40 ohm Impedance, I think this should be ok?  I'm going to be using the Vali my Matrix Quattro Dac (which is being swapped out with a Bitfrost sometime soon).


----------



## Rudiger

hpiper said:


> Is the Vali the same size as the Modi? Are they the same size as the Loki?. I was just thinking about the possibility of a triple stack with DSD playback. Pretty awesome for less than $500.


 

 Yes, same size.


----------



## dragonfly50

I DID dig some up - some silver Flatline Blue Heaven cables from a previous life in audio. Got it all working with USB DAC into Vali. Spotify is at 100%, Windows volume no longer adjustable, and now the Vali volume tends to be no more than 20% with the K601. Gain and power to boot!


----------



## Billheiser

Schweet!


----------



## FraGGleR

I know I am not hearing the HE-6 to its "full potential," but I think it sounds pretty solid out of the Vali.  Vocals not too bright, good space, and still very good bass when listening to my woofer test stuff.  This is not in comparison to any other amp, but rather to my HD800.  More like does the HE-6 still sound like a TOTL competitor to the HD800 on my humble system.


----------



## Billheiser

So the answer is "yes" so far? Do u like the HE6 better overall, or in some aspects of the sound?


----------



## FraGGleR

billheiser said:


> So the answer is "yes" so far? Do u like the HE6 better overall, or in some aspects of the sound?


 
 The answer is "yes" that I believe its character as a TOTL headphone shows up on the Vali.  I am definitely not saying that the Vali is enough to get the best from the HE-6, just that I am pleasantly surprised by how good it sounds.  I still prefer just about everything about the HD800 over the HE-6, especially the air and soundstage.  Sometimes I would like more bass rumble, but I listen to quite a bit of classical and as good as other headphones are, I haven't found one yet that I prefer to the HD800.


----------



## eccom

zoqi said:


> I'm thinking about getting the Vali for my Sennheiser HD650, which I read should be an OK match. However, my other pair of favourite headphones are the Ultrasone Pro 900, anyone here who has tested the Pro 900 with Vali? The Pro 900 has an 40 ohm Impedance, I think this should be ok?  I'm going to be using the Vali my Matrix Quattro Dac (which is being swapped out with a Bitfrost sometime soon).


 
 If the ultrasone is similar in sensitivity to the M80's my experience is that the m80 and Vali does not mingle well... The noise level is just too loud on my unit.


----------



## potterpastor

I use my HD 600 and my Sennheiser Momentum over ear with the Schiit Vali. Both headphones go up a level or two soundwise with the pairing, But you gotta turn the volume up more for the 600


----------



## Za Warudo

I'm considering buying a Vali, but I plan to use it on a large table that also holds my router.  Is the Vali sensitive to wireless signal interference?


----------



## potterpastor

Yes


----------



## RickB

za warudo said:


> I'm considering buying a Vali, but I plan to use it on a large table that also holds my router.  Is the Vali sensitive to wireless signal interference?


 

 I have my Vali/Modi on the same table where I have my laptop (using WiFi) and my cellphone (also using WiFi) and I get no interference.


----------



## Za Warudo

rickb said:


> I have my Vali/Modi on the same table where I have my laptop (using WiFi) and my cellphone (also using WiFi) and I get no interference.



 


Thanks, I'm worried about my router interferring with it. The furthest I can keep it away from the Vali is 10-12 feet.


----------



## RickB

za warudo said:


> rickb said:
> 
> 
> > I have my Vali/Modi on the same table where I have my laptop (using WiFi) and my cellphone (also using WiFi) and I get no interference.
> ...


 

 My router is mounted on a wall about 4 feet away from the Vali/Modi. No interference.


----------



## Billheiser

I have NOT experienced any interference with my Vali, when I have had it close (1 m) to a router.


----------



## Za Warudo

Thanks for all the feedback!


----------



## K.T.

Aside from vibration damping efforts, has anyone tried any substantive modifications to the Vali to improve the sound?

Seeing how the Vali uses a lot of tiny surface mounted components, I can understand how it would be difficult to roll parts.

In some of my other amps, based mainly on through-hole components or point-to-point construction, I've rolled things like input caps, coupling caps, output caps, resistors, potentiometers, etc, to change the flavor of the sound. Sometime the improvement was big.

I don't see too much discussion about modifications to the Vali. Or should I be looking on another forum like DIYAudio.com or AudioCircle.com?


----------



## New Yorker

Schitt makes several headphone amps. Looking at their website, it seems the guys who designed these amps feel the Vali is NOT the Schitt to buy if you enjoy modding.

At least, that's the impression I got.


----------



## Tonequest

This looks promising. Has anyone tried it with a Bottlehead unit?


----------



## Sonido

I want to report the AKG K812 works well enough with the Vali. There's a slight noise floor, but nothing as bad as plugging in portables like KEF M500.


----------



## FraGGleR

tonequest said:


> This looks promising. Has anyone tried it with a Bottlehead unit?


 
 What do you mean?  The Bottlehead headphones?  Bottlehead makes primarily amps which is what the Vali is.


----------



## Sonido

tonequest said:


> This looks promising. Has anyone tried it with a Bottlehead unit?



I've tried it in conjunction with the Quickie preamp and it's not really a good fit. Kinda takes away from the clean sound of the Vali, and doesn't really give the bass tactility boost the Quickie gives when used in conjunction with the Crack.


----------



## Maxx134

I compared at home, my Vali against my woo wa7....
Why?
Because I can.. Lol

I would not have bothered to post results except something very curious...

The vali sounds extremely similar to the amp section of the woo wa7 with the "Elecro-Harmonix" gold pin tubes..(!)

The main difference being slight less depth and bottom end..
The trebles were amazingly similar (!)

Of course you have the added noise floor and ringing associated with the vali, but dam it sounded sooo similar!

I listened using a loaner hd800 on, them so I herd maximum detailing of both.
I assumed it was more specific to those headphones so I tried now with my best portable ultrasone ed8 and noticed same similar signature (!)..
Only slightly less of everything (soundstage & depth & punch) at same volume it is like 80% of the woo (!)

Dacs used were odac, woo wa7 dac, arcam irdac...

That being said. The odac held up almost as well as the w7 dac section,
But the Arcam is just majestic and an end game dac for me.


----------



## elwappo99

maxx134 said:


> I compared at home, my Vali against my woo wa7....
> Why?
> Because I can.. Lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very interesting to read your comparison. 
  
 Certainly not good news for the WA7?


----------



## Maxx134

Lol no..


elwappo99 said:


> Very interesting to read your comparison.
> 
> Certainly not good news for the WA7?



But I now consider the vali like a lil woo lol


----------



## UmustBKidn

maxx134 said:


> Lol no..
> But I now consider the vali like a lil woo lol


 
  
 Like maybe, a Wee Woo?
  
 (lol, sorry)


----------



## Maxx134

umustbkidn said:


> Like maybe, a Wee Woo?
> 
> (lol, sorry)



Hmmm, more Like a schiity woo


----------



## MickeyVee

From what I recall, the Vali is not as smooth and refined as the WA7 but I can see them being pretty close.  Bodes well for the Vali at a small fraction of the price.


----------



## Billheiser

umustbkidn said:


> Like maybe, a Wee Woo?
> 
> (lol, sorry)



Oui, un wee woo.


----------



## Rudiger

Pour une fois qu'il y a une blague que je comprend


----------



## Billheiser

Tres bien!
Back on topic: Das Schiit Vali ist nicht scheisse, es bueno.


----------



## Rudiger

Oui mais je préfère le lehmann rhinelander...


----------



## Billheiser

O ja, es ist sehr gut. Aber solid-state, und ich will tubes oder hybrids. Voila, Vali!


----------



## Snips

billheiser said:


> O ja, es ist sehr gut. Aber solid-state, und ich will tubes oder hybrids. Voila, Vali!


 
  
 C,mon guys, speak English for us poor blokes who can't understand French. 
  
 I'm not that far into my French lessons yet.


----------



## JohnBal

Geesh! I thought that was German.


----------



## Billheiser

rudiger said:


> Oui mais je préfère le lehmann rhinelander...



Hai, dosvedanya, ok. Schiit Vali, belissima, it's rocking.


----------



## thomascrown

billheiser said:


> Hai, dosvedanya, ok. Schiit Vali, belissima, it's rocking.


 
  
  vali-dissimo ,


----------



## Snips

johnbal said:


> Geesh! I thought that was German.


 
  
 Eh, Rudiger looks like he's speaking French, since I spot some French words. I'm actually not so sure about Billheiser


----------



## Billheiser

snips said:


> Eh, Rudiger looks like he's speaking French, since I spot some French words. I'm actually not so sure about Billheiser


 
 Ich bin ein Berliner!  j/k.  I'm a citizen of the world, located in the DMV of USA.  But we are all speaking of the Vali, and other Schiit products all of which have Norse names.


----------



## UmustBKidn

snips said:


> C,mon guys, speak English for us poor blokes who can't understand French.
> 
> I'm not that far into my French lessons yet.


 
  
 The really funny part is, I had no idea I said something in another language.


----------



## arte arquiteto

I am considering the Vali for my Sennheiser HD590's. Although the Asgard would be a better amplifier on paper with lower output impedance, I would  still be curious to hear how the Vali drives these cans. Has anyone had the opportunity to audition the Vali with Sennheiser HD590's? Several have said the Asgard (original early version) was better sounding than the Asgard 2 prior to the relay retrofit. It would also be an interesting comparison to hear the Vali against the original Asgard.


----------



## Maxx134

arte arquiteto said:


> I am considering the Vali for my Sennheiser HD590's. Although the Asgard would be a better amplifier on paper with lower output impedance, I would  still be curious to hear how the Vali drives these cans. Has anyone had the opportunity to audition the Vali with Sennheiser HD590's? Several have said the Asgard (original early version) was better sounding than the Asgard 2 prior to the relay retrofit. It would also be an interesting comparison to hear the Vali against the original Asgard.



I am guessing that the better the more expensive tube amps are, 
The less "tube-like" and the more delicate liquid, fluid and clear.
I consider the vali to have that more of the expensive type of tube sound..


----------



## OmarCCX

Is it a good idea to place the Vali below my monitor? I don't have much room.


----------



## arte arquiteto

Elegant placement of your SCHIIT OmarCCX!


----------



## Stillhart

Hi all,
  
 I'm considering picking up a Magni or a Vali to use with my Q701 headphones.  This would be to use with my Xbox One and Recon3D.  I've spent some time reading through this thread (did a few searches, read some interesting conversations, etc) and I am still a bit on the fence here.
  
 Essentially, my one issue with the Q701 is that I find the bass to be a little lacking.  Everything else about the sound is pretty nice (though I'll say the highs are bordering on too much for my music).  Someone suggested to me that a tube amp would help bring out the bass a little more without losing the other features that make the Q great.
  
 Since I'm just starting this head-fi hobby, I don't want to break the bank just yet so considering the cheap options.  Does the hybrid Vali give the kind of coloration to the sound that was suggested?  From reading some of the previous comments, I suspect not.  Given that, would a Magni be a better choice since it's cheaper, more powerful, and lacks the microphonics issue?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## OmarCCX

arte arquiteto said:


> Elegant placement of your SCHIIT OmarCCX!


 
 I tested with a Magni, there's enough space there for the amp, on top of the Modi. I'm just not sure if the heat it dissipates can do damage to the monitor itself.


----------



## Rem0o

omarccx said:


> I tested with a Magni, there's enough space there for the amp, on top of the Modi. I'm just not sure if the heat it dissipates can do damage to the monitor itself.


 
 If it starts smelling like schiit's burning, then you might consider a new place for your stack.


----------



## arte arquiteto

...and this was on my mind while visiting the "NEW Vali Schiit AMP!!!!" page http://www.head-fi.org/t/710372/a-head-fi-neighborhood


----------



## Billheiser

The Vali is not a very colored amp, so it will not greatly transform your 701's. I think it will be slightly better sounding than the Magni on those headphones. There's a reversible modification for the 701/702 that brings out some more bass. Look that up on its own thread here on head-fi.


----------



## Defiant00

stillhart said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm considering picking up a Magni or a Vali to use with my Q701 headphones.  This would be to use with my Xbox One and Recon3D.  I've spent some time reading through this thread (did a few searches, read some interesting conversations, etc) and I am still a bit on the fence here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 For the Q701 I'd opt for Vali over Magni, but neither is going to give you that traditional tubey sound that it sounds like you're looking for.


----------



## K.T.

To my ears, the Vali takes it with the Q701. It breathes life into the Q701.
  
 The Magni, in contrast, makes music sound flatter, stiffer, more constrained, and generally less engaging and interesting.
  
 In fact, there's not one pair of headphones I own where I don't feel this to be the case. I like the Vali that much better than the Magni.
  
The only area where the Magni betters the Vali, IMO, is in the noise floor. This is only a concern to me for my bedside setup, where I'm listening at lower volumes. Even so, I always switch back to the Vali despite the noise floor because it's more involving to me.
  
 And one other area the Magni is better is in power delivery. I haven't had any issues with my phones being driven well by the Vali. OK, perhaps the the only phone I have that may be preferable with the Magni is the HE-500. Not sure, it's been a while. I recall the HE-500 to sound out of breath with the Vali.
  
 Having said that, I can say that the easier-to-drive HE-400 sounds better with Vali though.
  
 My recommendation for Q701 is for the Vali.


----------



## totalreader

Hi!
 I need help...I'm considering picking up a Vali or a Magni + Fostex T50-RP. Which one is better for t50-rp?
 Thanks.


----------



## elwappo99

k.t. said:


> To my ears, the Vali takes it with the Q701. It breathes life into the Q701.
> 
> The Magni, in contrast, makes music sound flatter, stiffer, more constrained, and generally less engaging and interesting.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I also think the Vali hits a really sweet spot with the Q701.


----------



## RickB

totalreader said:


> Hi!
> I need help...I'm considering picking up a Vali or a Magni + Fostex T50-RP. Which one is better for t50-rp?
> Thanks.


 

 The T50RP is only 50ohm, so you might hear noise and/or constant ringing with the Vali. I would choose the Magni.
  
 I haven't heard that headphone with the Vali or Magni personally, however.


----------



## Stillhart

k.t. said:


> To my ears, the Vali takes it with the Q701. It breathes life into the Q701.
> 
> The Magni, in contrast, makes music sound flatter, stiffer, more constrained, and generally less engaging and interesting.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


elwappo99 said:


> I also think the Vali hits a really sweet spot with the Q701.


 
  
 Thanks, guys.  It seems like the concensus (at least in the Vali thread) is that the Vali is better with the Q701 than the Magni.  I suppose I should probably also ask in the Magni thread.  lol


----------



## OmarCCX

The T50RP is really, really good with the Magni.


----------



## jimmers

rickb said:


> The T50RP is only 50ohm, so you might hear noise and/or constant ringing with the Vali.


 
 The TR50RP can need quite a bit of power, depending on mods, so 50Ohms is not the criterion.


----------



## RickB

jimmers said:


> The TR50RP can need quite a bit of power, depending on mods, so 50Ohms is not the criterion.


 

 You might be right. Perhaps somebody who's heard the combo can chime in whether there is actually noise/ringing or not.


----------



## totalreader

Thanks to all who answered. Magni is already ordered!


----------



## elwappo99

rickb said:


> jimmers said:
> 
> 
> > The TR50RP can need quite a bit of power, depending on mods, so 50Ohms is not the criterion.
> ...


 
  
 I have a pair of Mad Dog headphones (T50rp mods) and I think it is definitely an excellent combo. Definitely enough power for them.


----------



## abhinit90

rickb said:


> You might be right. Perhaps somebody who's heard the combo can chime in whether there is actually noise/ringing or not.


 
 even though totalreader has already ordered
  
 There's no audible noise floor with the T50RP, and ringing is almost non-existent. Need to strike the case hard to be really rough for some ringing that is very slight, and can only be heard when there's no song playing.


----------



## Master Shake

Im going to be getting a pair of He-400's fairly soon (tax rebate! wooooo) anyways will this or the magni work better for the He-400? Im a bit of a basshead and like a good low end response. Ill also be running my dt770's (80 ohm) off of it as well. Sorry if i missed anything from earlier pages but skimming through almost 300 pages of info could be a bit of hassle


----------



## senseabove

I've been using a Magni at work and I just received a Vali last week to use at home. I'm loving the sound so far. The warmth nicely rounds out the sharpness of the AT440mla cart I'm borrowing from a friend. This is my first tube amp, though, so I'm a little unsure what's normal and what's not and what might fade with some burn-in.
  
 Currently, I'm hearing ringing when I _even touch_ the volume pot, and often just when I move in such a way that jostles the headphone wire. I'd read about the tubes coming off the foam during shipping, so I checked that, and both seem to be fairly firmly planted on the foam, but I gave them a gentle pressing anyway, and the ringing is still pretty strong and long-lasting. Is it time to contact Schiit about a replacement, or should this ringing lessen with burn-in?
  
 Also, I'm fairly new to audiophilia in general, so I'm a little unsure about matching amps and headphones and impedance and such, but I'd started using the Vali with a pair of Sennheiser HD-555s. I'm planning on moving to some Grados soon, and I saw a lot about the Grados pairing well with the Vali. Well, I assumed that with the various Grados having _lower_ impedance (32 Ohms) than the HD-555s (50 Ohms), I'd be okay, and I'd been using the 555s at work with a Magni without a problem.  Admittedly, I was doing some pretty loud listening to test differences between the Magni and Vali, but I'm noticing a lot of crackling and distortion now that I'm back on the Magni at work. Did I just turn the volume up too loud and bust the 555s, or were these headphones just a bad match for the Vali?


----------



## Snips

senseabove said:


> I've been using a Magni at work and I just received a Vali last week to use at home. I'm loving the sound so far. The warmth nicely rounds out the sharpness of the AT440mla cart I'm borrowing from a friend. This is my first tube amp, though, so I'm a little unsure what's normal and what's not and what might fade with some burn-in.
> 
> Currently, I'm hearing ringing when I _even touch_ the volume pot, and often just when I move in such a way that jostles the headphone wire. I'd read about the tubes coming off the foam during shipping, so I checked that, and both seem to be fairly firmly planted on the foam, but I gave them a gentle pressing anyway, and the ringing is still pretty strong and long-lasting. Is it time to contact Schiit about a replacement, or should this ringing lessen with burn-in?
> 
> Also, I'm fairly new to audiophilia in general, so I'm a little unsure about matching amps and headphones and impedance and such, but I'd started using the Vali with a pair of Sennheiser HD-555s. I'm planning on moving to some Grados soon, and I saw a lot about the Grados pairing well with the Vali. Well, I assumed that with the various Grados having _lower_ impedance (32 Ohms) than the HD-555s (50 Ohms), I'd be okay, and I'd been using the 555s at work with a Magni without a problem.  Admittedly, I was doing some pretty loud listening to test differences between the Magni and Vali, but I'm noticing a lot of crackling and distortion now that I'm back on the Magni at work. Did I just turn the volume up too loud and bust the 555s, or were these headphones just a bad match for the Vali?


 
  
 Burn in shouldn't have any effect on the ringing at all. You can try contacting Schiit if you want.


----------



## RickB

senseabove said:


> I've been using a Magni at work and I just received a Vali last week to use at home. I'm loving the sound so far. The warmth nicely rounds out the sharpness of the AT440mla cart I'm borrowing from a friend. This is my first tube amp, though, so I'm a little unsure what's normal and what's not and what might fade with some burn-in.
> 
> Currently, I'm hearing ringing when I _even touch_ the volume pot, and often just when I move in such a way that jostles the headphone wire. I'd read about the tubes coming off the foam during shipping, so I checked that, and both seem to be fairly firmly planted on the foam, but I gave them a gentle pressing anyway, and the ringing is still pretty strong and long-lasting. Is it time to contact Schiit about a replacement, or should this ringing lessen with burn-in?
> 
> Also, I'm fairly new to audiophilia in general, so I'm a little unsure about matching amps and headphones and impedance and such, but I'd started using the Vali with a pair of Sennheiser HD-555s. I'm planning on moving to some Grados soon, and I saw a lot about the Grados pairing well with the Vali. Well, I assumed that with the various Grados having _lower_ impedance (32 Ohms) than the HD-555s (50 Ohms), I'd be okay, and I'd been using the 555s at work with a Magni without a problem.  Admittedly, I was doing some pretty loud listening to test differences between the Magni and Vali, but I'm noticing a lot of crackling and distortion now that I'm back on the Magni at work. Did I just turn the volume up too loud and bust the 555s, or were these headphones just a bad match for the Vali?


 
  
 If you're using a USB DAC, try unplugging and plugging it back in to see if the crackling and distortion go away.


----------



## CJs06

Two friends were checking into a hotel the day prior to a Head-Fi meet. Loaded down with bags and suitcases full of wonderous audio gear and oddities, Bob and Tom walk up to the check-in counter. Seeing no-one around the foyer except themselves, they look in the hallway behind the counter to see if an office was occupied. Seeing only closed doors, "Hey! Ring that service bell on the counter there", said Tom. Bob hit the top of the bell just enough but only a dull "clink" sound was made. "Huh, well I guess we could just yell for someone or look around some more," said Bob. Tom set his suitcase down but as he leaned down a bit his shoulder bag slipped off his shoulder onto the floor. "Tiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggggg!" Tom froze in surprise while Bob held his fingers in his ears. Moving his jaw around to get his ears to pop, "What in the hell was that?!" exclaimed Bob. "I think that was my Vali, it rang before when I used it with my headphones but its never..." Immediately a hotel clerk poped out of the back office with a hefty "Howdy!" "I appologize, I was on the phone. I heard y'all ring though! Haha! Y'all must be here for the Head-Fi meet." Bob began to sign for a room while Tom nervously went to check the Vali inside his bag, "I really hope I didn't jack it up," he wispered. As he took the Vali out of his bag and held it up to the light to inspect it, the hotel clerk saw the Vali and took interest. "Hey now I got one of those too! Say, did that make that ringin' noise earlier?" "Um, yeah. Yeah it did," Tom said slowly, unsure if he could see any visible damage to the amplifier. "Hey, thats cool, you're into headphone audio too huh?" said Bob. "Yerp! I tell you what though. That there Vali is a ringer for sure! I can't believe I didn't listen to everyone who said it rang so much before I bought it," said the hotel clerk. "Well Schiit does clearly specify on their website that the tubes will ring if the chasis is hit," said Tom, "but I didn't think it would ring that much!" " Well, I tell ya. That there amplifier isn't worth buying!" exclaimed the hotel clerk, "it just rings too damn much! Imagine if everyone in the meet y'all are havin' has one of them suckers. All you would hear is ringin'!" "Thats a bit dramatic don't you think?" asked Bob. "Listen here. I done read them Head-Fi forum over and over and there is a general consensus that the Vali rings too damn much!" yelled the hotel clerk. "Okay, okay. I just thought people tend to exagerate small issues on the forums is all," Bob said calmly. "Mabey your amplifier is defective Tom, I don't think it should ring like that." "Yeah," sighed tom, "I guess I'll send it back to Schiit when I get home. I was really looking forward to sharing it at the meet since I really enjoy the sound. Oh well, I guess its really a peice of Schiit after all..."
  
 To be continued...


----------



## dragonfly50

Really enjoying my Vali after a couple weeks of continuous use with K601. No noise floor, no ringing, more power than I require. Have a Modi coming to see what that's like - always nice to have an additional point of reference, especially one designed to go with the amp.
  
 I love the warm little classy box with it's impression of tube heaters - the biasing LEDs!
  
 Today I noticed that horns can sound particularly excellent with the K601/Vali combo. Just the right lively, rich, blatty sound. I'm gathering jazz and classical trumpet recordings. Really fun.


----------



## RedBull

Even burning fire (from the movie) sounds excellent with Vali and hd800 
I really liking this little baby.


----------



## cebuboy

To those with tube erection problems, did you guys stick the tubes back to the board, or after getting tired of sticking them back again and again decided to leave them erect?
  
 The ringing is not as bad with high impedance headphones though...


----------



## StanD

dragonfly50 said:


> Really enjoying my Vali after a couple weeks of continuous use with K601. No noise floor, no ringing, more power than I require. Have a Modi coming to see what that's like - always nice to have an additional point of reference, especially one designed to go with the amp.
> 
> I love the warm little classy box with it's impression of tube heaters - the biasing LEDs!
> 
> Today I noticed that horns can sound particularly excellent with the K601/Vali combo. Just the right lively, rich, blatty sound. I'm gathering jazz and classical trumpet recordings. Really fun.


 
 Noise will be noticeable if you use sensitive cans or IEM's. Perhaps the K601 isn't sensitve enough to reveal the Vali's noise floor. Sensitivity is not an indicator of SQ, so enjoy your kit.


----------



## K.T.

cjs06 said:


> Two friends were checking into a hotel the day prior to a Head-Fi meet. Loaded down with bags and suitcases full of wonderous audio gear and oddities, Bob and Tom walk up to the check-in counter. Seeing no-one around the foyer except themselves, they look in the hallway behind the counter to see if an office was occupied. Seeing only closed doors, "Hey! Ring that service bell on the counter there", said Tom. Bob hit the top of the bell just enough but only a dull "clink" sound was made. "Huh, well I guess we could just yell for someone or look around some more," said Bob. Tom set his suitcase down but as he leaned down a bit his shoulder bag slipped off his shoulder onto the floor. "Tiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggggg!" Tom froze in surprise while Bob held his fingers in his ears. Moving his jaw around to get his ears to pop, "What in the hell was that?!" exclaimed Bob. "I think that was my Vali, it rang before when I used it with my headphones but its never..." Immediately a hotel clerk poped out of the back office with a hefty "Howdy!" "I appologize, I was on the phone. I heard y'all ring though! Haha! Y'all must be here for the Head-Fi meet." Bob began to sign for a room while Tom nervously went to check the Vali inside his bag, "I really hope I didn't jack it up," he wispered. As he took the Vali out of his bag and held it up to the light to inspect it, the hotel clerk saw the Vali and took interest. "Hey now I got one of those too! Say, did that make that ringin' noise earlier?" "Um, yeah. Yeah it did," Tom said slowly, unsure if he could see any visible damage to the amplifier. "Hey, thats cool, you're into headphone audio too huh?" said Bob. "Yerp! I tell you what though. That there Vali is a ringer for sure! I can't believe I didn't listen to everyone who said it rang so much before I bought it," said the hotel clerk. "Well Schiit does clearly specify on their website that the tubes will ring if the chasis is hit," said Tom, "but I didn't think it would ring that much!" " Well, I tell ya. That there amplifier isn't worth buying!" exclaimed the hotel clerk, "it just rings too damn much! Imagine if everyone in the meet y'all are havin' has one of them suckers. All you would hear is ringin'!" "Thats a bit dramatic don't you think?" asked Bob. "Listen here. I done read them Head-Fi forum over and over and there is a general consensus that the Vali rings too damn much!" yelled the hotel clerk. "Okay, okay. I just thought people tend to exagerate small issues on the forums is all," Bob said calmly. "Mabey your amplifier is defective Tom, I don't think it should ring like that." "Yeah," sighed tom, "I guess I'll send it back to Schiit when I get home. I was really looking forward to sharing it at the meet since I really enjoy the sound. Oh well, I guess its really a peice of Schiit after all..."
> 
> To be continued...


 
  
  
 We're looking forward to the novel. Where can we buy it?


----------



## CJs06

k.t. said:


> We're looking forward to the novel. Where can we buy it?



Oh good. No worries, it'll be free


----------



## K.T.

cjs06 said:


> Oh good. No worries, it'll be free


 
  
 Yes! Free is good!
  
 In case anyone cares, here's my take on the current round of ringing.
  
 When Vali was first introduced, the way the tubes were pushed onto the pads created conditions for ringing.
  
 A cure was found. It involved pre-bending/de-tensioning the tube leads before they were soldered onto the board and stuck onto the pads. This, for the most part, alleviated the ringing issue.
  
 Then it seems a later batch of Vali's started having ringing problems again.
  
 Here's what I surmise: The fix, as described above, was too labor and time intensive and too costly for Schiit. So they devised another more efficient and less time consuming workflow, or another method altogether, for alleviating the resonance that was allowing vibration into the tubes. But it didn't work as expected, thus the new round of ringing amps are now reported.
  
 That's just pure conjecture, but I had to get it off my chest.


----------



## Stillhart

k.t. said:


> Yes! Free is good!
> 
> In case anyone cares, here's my take on the current round of ringing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is there a way to tell from the serial number if it's going to be prone to ringing?  Like if I'm looking for a used one?


----------



## eccom

cebuboy said:


> To those with tube erection problems, did you guys stick the tubes back to the board, or after getting tired of sticking them back again and again decided to leave them erect?
> 
> The ringing is not as bad with high impedance headphones though...


 
 Gently bend the leads so that you relieve the tension, and then reattach the tubes. I got random ringing (very loud) when they were both unattached. the right one still rings if i clap my hand or cough close to the amp.
  
 i can only hear that when using headphones that show the noise floor, not not a real problem anymore.


----------



## StanD

I have an anti-ringing damping field that I got from Area 51. Works like a charm. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 By the way, the boys at Schiit have been prebending the leads on the tubes for quite some time. Unless one has an early unit, they should be good to go, unless a tube sprung loose, despite this.


----------



## Snips

stillhart said:


> Is there a way to tell from the serial number if it's going to be prone to ringing?  Like if I'm looking for a used one?


 
  
 Hard to say. We'll need the guys who suffer from serious ringing to post their serial number here.


----------



## MickeyVee

#257 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 though I love the Vali with the Grado RS1i.  Takes more than a minute to stop and really never goes away.  Constant real low level ringing on the right but to be fair, Grado's are pretty efficient. Once settled, ringing is not audible with music playing.
  
 Quote:


snips said:


> Hard to say. We'll need the guys who suffer from serious ringing to post their serial number here.


----------



## fenderf4i

Mine is #1308, Hardly rings at all with my Grado's and Audeze.


----------



## BenEnglish

snips said:


> We'll need the guys who suffer from serious ringing to post their serial number here.


 
 I can report ridiculous ringing from unit # 209.  HE-300s in use.


----------



## Stillhart

Nifty, I'll start tracking this in a Google Doc.  I made it public so anyone who wants to can just go in and put in your S/N, whether it's ringing or not and any notes.  Perhaps if this grows it will be a useful resource.
  
Schiit Vali - Noise Tracker


----------



## abhinit90

Woah! as soon as I mentioned that my Vali doesn't ring, the right tube has now become erect and the ringing is a lot more apparent :|


----------



## K.T.

stillhart said:


> Nifty, I'll start tracking this in a Google Doc.  I made it public so anyone who wants to can just go in and put in your S/N, whether it's ringing or not and any notes.  Perhaps if this grows it will be a useful resource.
> 
> Schiit Vali - Noise Tracker


 
  
  
 Cool, good idea.
  
 If I remember correctly, those serial numbers in the 200's are from the first production run. If I'm correct, these do NOT have the pre-bent leads.
  
 My first Vali was SN# 272. It had a fair amount of ringing.
  
 I opened it up and bent the leads myself, and the ringing is minimal now. Functionally, not an issue any longer.
  
 My second Vali had a SN in the 800's IIRC.
  
 Right out of the box, very minimal ringing on my second one. Equal to my first Vali after I corrected it. That is to say, ringing was functionally a non-issue in the later amp right out of the box.
  
 Currently on both amps, there will be a little bit of ringing when changing phones or brushing across the volume knob with a little force. But rapping on top of the amp does not excite ringing unless done with a good amount of force.


----------



## MickeyVee

I took mine apart and pre-bent the leads to the tubes.  Helped a little.  Maybe I'll do it again today and see what happens.


----------



## RickB

SN#760 here. Ringing has only ever occurred for the first 15 seconds after turn on and when plugging in phones. Since I leave my main phones plugged in most of the time, ringing has never been much of an issue for me.


----------



## cebuboy

#000671 here, the ringing became apparent when the tubes got erect, tried sticking them back on the board to no avail, even tried to gently bent the leads... I just left it as is, and try to be as still as possible when listening...


----------



## senseabove

senseabove said:


> Currently, I'm hearing ringing when I _even touch_ the volume pot, and often just when I move in such a way that jostles the headphone wire. I'd read about the tubes coming off the foam during shipping, so I checked that, and both seem to be fairly firmly planted on the foam, but I gave them a gentle pressing anyway, and the ringing is still pretty strong and long-lasting. Is it time to contact Schiit about a replacement, or should this ringing lessen with burn-in?


 
  
 I contacted Schiit about the ringing, asking if this was within the acceptable range. The first response was that, if it dies out in thirty seconds, it's acceptable. I responded by saying that, well, it's still faint but present from 30 to about 40 seconds, but the more pressing concern is that if I move the headphones a little or the cord at all, it rings. If it's acceptable, it feel like it's on the outer limit of acceptable. They immediately offered to swap it, "just to be safe." I put it back in the original box and dropped it at a FedEx location.
  
 Three or four days later the replacement arrived and it is a SIGNIFICANT improvement. I'm pretty sure I could do a jumping jack with the headphones on and not have any trouble. The volume pot only rings when I unexpectedly hit either the high or low limit (that is, with a bit of momentum behind the twist), and tapping on or around the unit doesn't trigger anything. I was even able to plug the headphones in gently when doing some A/Bing with another headphone amp last night and only trigger ~5 seconds of ringing. With the first one, plugging in, no matter how gently, gave me extended ringing.
  
 So props to Schiit, for fast customer service and for taking my word!


----------



## RedBull

^ glad to hear your problem solved. That also gives more confident for Schiit commitment to their customers.


----------



## cddc

Just wondering if it is possible to use some copper wires to band the tubes to the foam in order to resolve the erection problem?


----------



## abhinit90

cddc said:


> Just wondering if it is possible to use some copper wires to band the tubes to the foam in order to resolve the erection problem?


 

 In my case the foam itself came loose :|


----------



## eccom

Just bend the leads to the tube gently so that it's perpendicular to the board and then push them down again


----------



## cddc

eccom said:


> Just bend the leads to the tube gently so that it's perpendicular to the board and then push them down again


 
 Sounds more dangerous than pushing the tubes down to the board directly...might break the legs


----------



## TwinACStacks

Hi All. I'm new here to the forum, a long time lurker though. I just ordered a Vali and am looking forward to it. As a long time Guitarist and Builder of Guitar amps, I'd like to give a Little insight as to a possible cure for this "Tube Erection" problem that some of you are experiencing. Has anyone tried pushing down the tubes onto the pads, holding them in place with a light Clamp or tape and then apply a Little High temperature Silicone sealant on the underside of the tube tip or body and Chassis? I think once dried it would securely and safely hold the Tubes down more or less permanently. It works well in guitar amp applications. Hope this helps.
  






TwinACStacks


----------



## clientnumber9

Had my vali # 000356 for almost 3 months now and I love it.  Ringing is a non-issue, since it is only audible for about 5 seconds when i turn it on and I leave my HE-400's plugged in.  I have the vali set at 12 o'clock and use my comp to adjust volume and it gets too loud by the time i get to about 50 out of 100 on my computer volume.  Seems to drive my 400s very well.


----------



## Billheiser

Yes, sounds logical. I haven't opened mine up to look at that practicality but seems sensible (regarding holding the tubes down w silicone).


----------



## ace54

are all digital to analog converters the same quality? I need one to connect my TV to my Vali amp 
  
 they are going on ebay for cheap 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Optical-Coaxial-Toslink-Signal-to-Analog-Audio-Converter-Adapter-RCA-L-R-/321372047437


----------



## ace54

are all digital to analog converters the same quality ? I need one to connect my TV to my Vali amp
  
 any recommendations?  
  
 thanks


----------



## Sonido

Cheapest option is Fiio D3 at $32, assuming you're using optical out on your TV. If you're not using the TV for music (but for movies or gaming or anything with a visual presence), I'd say the D3 is fine. You're not gonna be able differentiate the subtle nuances of DAC when most of your attention is focused visually.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/D3-Digital-Converter-Optical-Toslink/dp/B005K2TXMO


----------



## ace54

sonido said:


> Cheapest option is Fiio D3 at $32, assuming you're using optical out on your TV. If you're not using the TV for music (but for movies or gaming or anything with a visual presence), I'd say the D3 is fine. You're not gonna be able differentiate the subtle nuances of DAC when most of your attention is focused visually.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/D3-Digital-Converter-Optical-Toslink/dp/B005K2TXMO


 
  
 I will be using digital audio out from the TV only option I have its a 2013 ST60 plasma there are no RCA outputs digital audio and of course HDMI output
  
 I use the amp and TV mostly for movies


----------



## Sonido

Yeah go with the D3 then. You're not going to be paying attention to the subtle details in sound when watching a movie. It's like they say in driving, 95% of your information is gathered from sight, and I'd imagine a similar ratio when watching a movie. People on who are giving impressions of various DACs are likely focused in on their music with their eyes closed to pick out the minute detail differences.


----------



## im533

twinacstacks said:


> Hi All. I'm new here to the forum, a long time lurker though. I just ordered a Vali and am looking forward to it. As a long time Guitarist and Builder of Guitar amps, I'd like to give a Little insight as to a possible cure for this "Tube Erection" problem that some of you are experiencing. Has anyone tried pushing down the tubes onto the pads, holding them in place with a light Clamp or tape and then apply a Little High temperature Silicone sealant on the underside of the tube tip or body and Chassis? I think once dried it would securely and safely hold the Tubes down more or less permanently. It works well in guitar amp applications. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm using tube damper rings to push down the tubes onto the pads. I put the damper rings vertically on the tubes and reassembled the chassis. (It's somewhat difficult to reassemble the chassis with rings on tubes.) After using damper rings, the ringing is much reduced though it still exists. It's much better.


----------



## ace54

not sure if this will work with my TV after reading this review 
  
 "The FiiO D03K ONLY ACCEPTS a PCM optical digital audio input and this is clearly stated on the unit. However, my brand new LG 32 inch LED TV only outputs a Dolby optical audio output and can not be programmed to output PCM. If you are buying the FiiO D03K to interface your TV to a legacy external audio Hi-Fi system, first make really sure that your TV can output a PCM optical audio signal."
  
  
My TV manual says Depending on your DVD player and DVD-Audio software the copyright protection function may operate and disable optical output.
  
When ATSC channel is selected, the output from the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack will be Dolby Digital. When channel is selected, the output will be PCM.
  
When playing a movie on movie maker, when sound is recorded in Dolby Digital, the output from the Digital Audio Out terminal will be Dolby Digital. When the sound is recorded in other formats, the output will be PCM.
  
what does this mean will the Fii0 D3 work with my TV?


----------



## jexby

This tv Fiio issue is not Vali related at all.
Take it elsewhere please.


----------



## OmarCCX

Got my Vali today and it works pretty nicely with my GR07, they are slightly less sensitive than the M50s, which is nice.


----------



## Rossliew

Using my Vali with the HD600 with my Unison Research CDP, the sound can simply be said as awesome! The Modi is also a splendid DAC imo. Am using it with the LD Mk III to drive my HD600 as well with Acer laptop as source with Usb out. Another splendid pairing to say the least. Highly recommended mini components!


----------



## helljudgement

I've been using the vali over the past few weeks and I must say this is a very good amp. I've been using it with my hd800 and I don't feel for one second that its underwhelming and for the price I don't see any reason for anyone who's looking for a low price amp to drive the 800 not to pick it up. Well done Jason.


----------



## sling5s

I came to really appreciate the Vali for it's hyper micro details.  More expensive amps gave more slam and macro dynamics but nothing has given me the level of micro-detail that this thing is giving me.  It's smooth but hyper detailed.  What the Vali does well, in the area of it's strength, it really competes with amps 5 to 10 times it's price.


----------



## Rossliew

With a source outputting higher voltages into the Vali, it is able to drive the HD800 admirably (for the price). With my Unison Research CDP and the Vali, I am able to get some body with my metal tunes so it's a pretty good budget-fi match until one can save enough to upgrade the amp further.


----------



## latimerfripp

Anyone have experience with the Vali and a Rega DAC Together? I am using HD800 Headphones. thanks


----------



## MickeyVee

The Rega DAC is an excellent choice! I've used it tithe the Vali and Woo WA6.  It pairs well with both and probably would any other amp that works well with the HD800.
  
 Quote:


latimerfripp said:


> Anyone have experience with the Vali and a Rega DAC Together? I am using HD800 Headphones. thanks


----------



## Maverickmonk

Just checking back in, I have the modi->magni->he-400 stack... Might need a Voli too now


----------



## K.T.

maverickmonk said:


> Just checking back in, I have the modi->magni->he-400 stack... Might need a Voli too now


 
  
 Ya! I have Modi, Magni, Vali, Asgard 2, HE-400.
  
 I don't use the Magni at all after I got the Vali.


----------



## cddc

k.t. said:


> Ya! I have Modi, Magni, Vali, Asgard 2, HE-400.
> 
> I don't use the Magni at all after I got the Vali.


 
  
 Surprised...isn't just solid state vs tube...why is vali so much better to you?


----------



## K.T.

cddc said:


> Surprised...isn't just solid state vs tube...why is vali so much better to you?


 
  
 The quality of sound is different to my ears. Vali is more musical. Something in the sound that is very engaging and draws you in.
  
 The Magni has more power, but is stiffer and deader sounding to me. A little too controlled such that it doesn't breathe as much. Micro-dynamics on the Magni seem more boring, predictable, and "samey."
  
 Magni does have the advantage of a much lower noise floor, which is nice when listening in a quiet environment like bed. But I still prefer the Vali.
  
 So I like the Vali better for those reasons.


----------



## cddc

It seems you are a firm tube supporter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Most of the characteristics about vali that you mentioned are related to tubes.
  
 I like the smooth sound from tubes for sure, but I also like the low noise floor and quick response from solid state. So sort of in the middle.


----------



## jexby

cddc said:


> I like the smooth sound from tubes for sure, but I also like the low noise floor and quick response from solid state. So sort of in the middle.


 
  
 hm, well since Vali (and Lyr, and Ember) are hybrid amps (Tubes AND Solid State outputs) you may enjoy them as well.


----------



## cddc

jexby said:


> hm, well since Vali (and Lyr, and Ember) are hybrid amps (Tubes AND Solid State outputs) you may enjoy them as well.


 
  
 that's true...forgot vali is indeed a hybrid instead of purely tube


----------



## helljudgement

I actually find the vali excel in detail and speed. The amazing thing about it is it do so without sounding harsh and gritty. It's actually faster than the wa2 that I previously owned and yet it retains some of its smoothness.


----------



## cddc

helljudgement said:


> I actually find the vali excel in detail and speed. The amazing thing about it is it do so without sounding harsh and gritty. It's actually faster than the wa2 that I previously owned and yet it retains some of its smoothness.


 
  
 Cool, good to know. Wa2 seems in a different league though


----------



## prsut

K.T.
  
 can you compare Vali vs. A2 ?


----------



## Maverickmonk

k.t. said:


> Ya! I have Modi, Magni, Vali, Asgard 2, HE-400.
> 
> I don't use the Magni at all after I got the Vali.




Well crap, guess I'm gonna have to then 

I "should" not spend any money until I'm ready to step to the next tier, but I'm just about to graduate and a Lyr/bifrost stack is out of my reach


----------



## K.T.

cddc said:


> It seems you are a firm tube supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I love tubes. When well done, I find tubes much more engaging and musical that most solid state. But when solid state is done well, it has its very enjoyable, too.
  


prsut said:


> K.T.
> 
> can you compare Vali vs. A2 ?


 
  
 They are different sounding amps, for sure. But both are smooth.
  
 I'd say the A2 has a certain smoothness, evenness, and control that's very reassuring. Nothing sounds out of place. Everything sounds controlled, but in a sure, musical way.
  
 Unlike the Magni, which is also solid state, the A2 has a sense of inner detail and delicacy that lifts it way above the Magni. The A2 tends to a slight warmth, and very slight roundness, which I also find nice. You would not mistake it for a hard, dry, bright, clinical sound that some solid state exhibits. It's a smooth, warm, composed, controlled, detailed, but delicate sound.
  
 There's a certain anticipatory tension in the A2 sound as well. I think this comes from the reserve of power. Music doesn't sound like it's lagging, or struggling to keep up. The terms smooth, warm, composed, controlled keep popping up in my head.
  
 I guess this is the sound of well done Class A biased solid state. A2 does run fairly hot.
  
 The Vali doesn't sound like it has as much power, grip, or control as the A2. On the other hand, there's an easiness to the sound. It's easier to forget that you're listening to a recording with the Vali. It really draws you into the music.
  
 There's a certain ease and flow with the Vali that sounds more natural to me. I attribute that to the tubes. Sometimes I will wish there were more power from the Vali, like with the HiFiMan HE-500. This phone sounds good on the Vali, but ultimately not a good match because the HE-500 needs more power. The HE-400 is a great match with the Vali, though, since it is easier to drive.
  
 I have to say, both amps are winners, and really well worth their asking price.
  
 My favorite phones, HE-500, HD-600, Q701 sound great on both amps. If I had to pick one amp, however, I'd probably go with the A2. There's something about the smoothness, delicacy, and control that I really like.
  
 But the Vali is also great. I liked the Vali so much I bought two of them!


----------



## darinf

Any idea how long a repair takes? My Vali would not stop ringing even after letting it sit for an hour. When I first got it, it used to ring for about 90 seconds or so. 
  
 Anyway, they received my Vali on 4/3 at the factory. I have e-mailed 3 times and tried to call once, but haven't heard anything about the status of the repair.
  
 For those of you that sent your Vali's back, how long did it take for you to get it back? (I am in southern California, so shipping time is not an issue.)


----------



## darinf

darinf said:


> Any idea how long a repair takes? My Vali would not stop ringing even after letting it sit for an hour. When I first got it, it used to ring for about 90 seconds or so.
> 
> Anyway, they received my Vali on 4/3 at the factory. I have e-mailed 3 times and tried to call once, but haven't heard anything about the status of the repair.
> 
> For those of you that sent your Vali's back, how long did it take for you to get it back? (I am in southern California, so shipping time is not an issue.)


 
 Right after I posted, I heard back from Schiit customer service.
  
 They shipped my unit out back to me on Friday. So that works out to about 8 days for the repair. That's not bad.
  
 They said they had to overhaul the whole unit that includes replacing the tubes and adhesive pads and adding some acoustical foam to reduce vibration to the board. They then burn the unit in overnight and then test it while it is still hot to determine if there are any problems.
  
 That's amazing that they can do all that as a warranty repair for a $119 product. I don't see how they can make any money doing it, but I'm not complaining. I can't wait to have my Vali back...


----------



## cddc

darinf said:


> Right after I posted, I heard back from Schiit customer service.
> 
> They shipped my unit out back to me on Friday. So that works out to about 8 days for the repair. That's not bad.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cool, great services!


----------



## prsut

darinf said:


> ... and adhesive pads and* adding some acoustical foam to reduce vibration to the board*....


 
  
 Interesting... something new. Some photos could help others.


----------



## darinf

prsut said:


> Interesting... something new. Some photos could help others.


 
 I can post photos once I get it back. Not sure why I don't have it already, but hopefully tomorrow.


----------



## prsut

darinf said:


> I can post photos once I get it back. Not sure why I don't have it already, but hopefully tomorrow.


 

 I will bet, we will see black sorbothane strips under tubes...


----------



## K.T.

prsut said:


> I will bet, we will see black sorbothane strips under tubes...


 
  
 I would think Sorbothane would be too expensive at the price point. Also, they would need to have double-stick adhesive on the Sorbothane to secure the tubes to the board. That would probably mean a custom designed and manufactured Sorbothane pad, which would definitely be too expensive for a $119 price point IMO. I think they will continue to use the soft double-stick foam they've always used for the tubes. Sorbothane is too costly a material for this product, I think.
  
 Some foam pads stuck onto the circuit board makes more sense to me. It's probably the current strategy/revision aimed at soaking up vibration before it can get to the tubes; if the board doesn't vibrate, there's no vibration transmitted to the tubes. Theoretically, the pads should absorb the vibration and transform it into heat. Or at least they should lessen the vibration, or shift the resonance to a frequency that doesn't cause issues for the tubes.
  
 I wonder if that resurgent wave of ringing in some of the later amps was because the board foam excited some unexpected resonance instead of absorbing it.
  
 I recall using vibration dots and damping material on the circuit boards of some of my gear some years back. Some of the time there was a slight improvement in the sound. Most of the time I couldn't tell the difference. And some of the time the sound actually got worse.
  
 So it's more complicated that just plopping some compliant foam pads onto the board. Short of a scientific method for identifying where they should go, there's a lot of experimentation required.
  
 A picture of the foam pads on the circuit board would be very informative and most welcome!


----------



## cddc

K.T., have you compared Vali against O2?
  
 Or anyone can give some opinions regarding these two?


----------



## K.T.

Hi, cddc.
  
 No, I have no experience with the O2. I hear it is a great amp, however, and can probably be considered a "reference" in the sense that it acknowledged as a good amp, is a known quantity, and thus gets compared to other amps in comparisons.
  
 I think others can point you to comparisons of the Vali and O2.


----------



## ace54

this amp should have a digital input since RCA is a thing of the past or maybe its only meant for people with high end expensive equipment which have RCA outputs 
  
 new TVs and blu ray players don't have RCA outputs 
  
 i'm still looking for a digital audio to analog converter for this amp that will work with my TV 
  
 all the schiit amps have RCA inputs only those people need to catch up with the times


----------



## Spiral Out

ace54 said:


> this amp should have a digital input since RCA is a thing of the past or maybe its only meant for people with high end expensive equipment which have RCA outputs
> 
> new TVs and blu ray players don't have RCA outputs
> 
> ...


 
 The Vali is an amplifier only,not a DAC/Amp combo.  Some manufactures choose to put a DAC inside some amplifiers, Schiit did not. Based on what I have read they did not like the idea of having a DAC inside the amplifier as there is a lot of EMI generated from the amplifier itself. RCA connections are pretty much the standard used for inputs and outputs in single ended amplifiers as well as outputs for single ended DACs. The Modi is the DAC that Schiit designed to pair with the Vali/Magni.


----------



## Koolpep

ace54 said:


> this amp should have a digital input since RCA is a thing of the past or maybe its only meant for people with high end expensive equipment which have RCA outputs
> 
> new TVs and blu ray players don't have RCA outputs
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can't be serious, ace54. You are looking for a DAC = digital to analog converter. Once the signal is ANALOG what else should you do with it then transmitting it ANALOG LOL. These are not devices for your TV, man. Nobody is stopping you to use a Schiit Modi (USB DAC) or a Schiit Bifrost (optical) both as DIGITAL as it gets. 
  
 They are perfectly well within our times. The only thing they don't do is a combined DAC/Amp, because you can put the things together as you like this way. Modular.


----------



## ace54

The cheapest schiit DAC that has optical in is the bifrost which 349.99( I wonder if its worth the money...sound improvements??) too expensive. The modi has USB input which is useless for me because my TV has only digital audio out 
  
 any recommendations for other DACs with digital input and RCA output that pair well with the Vali amp?
  
 thanks


----------



## Koolpep

ace54 said:


> The cheapest schiit DAC that has optical in is the bifrost which 349.99 too expensive. The modi has USB input which is useless for me because my TV has only digital audio out
> 
> any recommendations for other DACs with digital input and RCA output that pair well with the Vali amp?
> 
> thanks


 
  
 Fiio Taishan D03K - http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000027553125&MenuID=105026003


----------



## ace54

koolpep said:


> Fiio Taishan D03K - http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000027553125&MenuID=105026003


 
 that was already recommended to me by another member the problem with it is it doesn't support Dolby digital or DTS only PCM so it will be working half the time only when the TV is outputting PCM 
  
 I think PCM is only cable TV channels and blu ray movies are Dolby or DTS


----------



## Koolpep

ace54 said:


> that was already recommended to me by another member the problem with it is it doesn't support Dolby digital or DTS only PCM so it will be working half the time only when the TV is outputting PCM
> 
> I think PCM is only cable TV channels and blu ray movies are Dolby or DTS


 
 A quick check on the Fiio website would have revealed this: Fiio D07 
  
 http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000039443512&MenuID=105026003
  
 Exactly what you are looking for.


----------



## cddc

k.t. said:


> Hi, cddc.
> 
> No, I have no experience with the O2. I hear it is a great amp, however, and can probably be considered a "reference" in the sense that it acknowledged as a good amp, is a known quantity, and thus gets compared to other amps in comparisons.
> 
> I think others can point you to comparisons of the Vali and O2.


 
  
 Thanks a lot, K.T. I will wait to see if someone can come up with some comparison.
  
 Talking about the input/output though, as discussed by ace54 and Koolpep, I see Vali uses 2 RCA cables as input, while O2 uses a single cable with 2 male 3.5mm plugs as input. Which method is better?


----------



## Koolpep

cddc said:


> Thanks a lot, K.T. I will wait to see if someone can come up with some comparison.
> 
> Talking about the input/output though, as discussed by ace54 and Koolpep, I see Vali uses 2 RCA cables as input, while O2 uses a single cable with 2 male 3.5mm plugs as input. Which method is better?


 
  
 Generally RCA cables have a more secure connection, more contact surface area to transfer and last longer than 3.5mm sockets/plugs. In "normal" life this doesn't matter much. Instead of a RCA cable you just use a RCA to 3.5mm cable. The only thing I don't like about the O2 is that the input is on the front. It looks much cleaner when only the output is on the front imho.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Jason Stoddard

ace54 said:


> The cheapest schiit DAC that has optical in is the bifrost which 349.99( I wonder if its worth the money...sound improvements??) too expensive. The modi has USB input which is useless for me because my TV has only digital audio out


 
  
 Not for long...
  
 However (BIG however)--many, many TVs and AVRs don't output PCM sound from HDMI sources, due to copy protection. Make sure yours does, before you buy any DAC.


----------



## ace54

jason stoddard said:


> Not for long...
> 
> However (BIG however)--many, many TVs and AVRs don't output PCM sound from HDMI sources, due to copy protection. Make sure yours does, before you buy any DAC.


 
 this is what it says in my tvs manual about the digital audio output
  
 ""When ATSC channel is selected, the output from the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack will be Dolby Digital. When channel is selected,
  
 the output will be PCM.

 When playing a movie on movie maker, when sound is recorded in Dolby Digital, the output from the Digital Audio Out terminal will be Dolby Digital. When the sound is recorded in other formats, the output will be PCM."
  
 so this means that my TV outputs both PCM and Dolby 
  
 also says that depending on your DVD player and DVD audio software the copyright function may operate and disable optical output


----------



## MickeyVee

Hmmm.. do I smell some leakage here?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Modi with Optical input too?? (USB powered so no wall wart??)​ Would be a nice match for my Vali.
 Quote:


jason stoddard said:


> Not for long...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

ace54 said:


> this is what it says in my tvs manual about the digital audio output
> 
> ""When ATSC channel is selected, the output from the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack will be Dolby Digital. When channel is selected,
> 
> ...


 
  
 No 2-channel DAC will do Dolby Digital...so beware.


----------



## Rudiger

jason stoddard said:


> *Not for long...*
> 
> However (BIG however)--many, many TVs and AVRs don't output PCM sound from HDMI sources, due to copy protection. Make sure yours does, before you buy any DAC.



Wow, a modi 2 is coming Jason ?
I will be happy if it no need drivers like the Modi, because drivers installation is impossible for me at work. I dream about a bifrost with no drivers required


----------



## Jason Stoddard

I said nothing about a Modi 2. However, we will very shortly have a less expensive optical input DAC, if all you need is optical input.


----------



## Rudiger

jason stoddard said:


> I said nothing about a Modi 2. However, we will very shortly have a less expensive optical input DAC, if all you need is optical input.



okay, not a Modi 2, so we could call this 'optical Schiit modi' ? (Just kidding, i am trying to know what is next


----------



## jexby

rudiger said:


> I dream about a bifrost with no drivers required


 
  
 That's not Schiit's problem, that's your schitty operating systems fault.
  
 BiFrost is plug n play with Mac.
 glorious.


----------



## Rudiger

jexby said:


> That's not Schiit's problem, that's your schitty operating systems fault.
> 
> BiFrost is plug n play with Mac.
> glorious.



thanx but i didn't choose my system at work.
(but for sure i don't like schitty mac)


----------



## jexby

rudiger said:


> thanx but i didn't choose my system at work.
> (but for sure i don't like schitty mac)


 
  
  
 understood.
 under that predicament, my alternative plan to use the Vali at work would be:
  iPad with Onkyo HD app --> CCK cable --> USB cable --> iFi iDSD nano --> RCA cables --> Vali --> headphones.
  
  
 if you despise apple, substitute the iPad/CCK with <insert something Android here>.
  
 or wait for Geek Wave.


----------



## ace54

jason stoddard said:


> No 2-channel DAC will do Dolby Digital...so beware.


 
 as long as it will decode Dolby Digital, PCM and DTS 
  
"Product Description   Converts coaxial or optical digital audio input to analog stereo output over RCA and 3.5mm mini jack Supports all popular sample rates including 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz and 96kHz, at up to 24-bit resolution Decodes Dolby and DTS signals for excellent compatibility with modern HDTVs. Switch selectable coaxial or optical input."


 I will hook it up to the Vali amp for better sound I'm thinking I shouldve bought the bifrost DAC instead of the Vali amp because only wanted better sound don't really need amp I bought the Vali amp because i read somewhere that it has good sound-stage better sound


----------



## fenderf4i

jason stoddard said:


> I said nothing about a Modi 2. However, we will very shortly have a less expensive optical input DAC, if all you need is optical input.


 
  
  
  
 That is exactly what I want, to replace the Audioengine unit hooked up to my Apple TV. Fantastic news!


----------



## BenEnglish

jexby said:


> That's not Schiit's problem, that's your schitty operating systems fault.
> 
> BiFrost is plug n play with Mac.
> glorious.


 

 And the Loki that feeds my Vali is plug-n-play on my Linux machine.  Lordy, it's simple to use the Loki as my only DAC when using the Linux setup instructions on Schiit's site.


----------



## tehsprayer

How well does the Vali pair with the Alpha Dogs?


----------



## Rudiger

tehsprayer said:


> How well does the Vali pair with the Alpha Dogs?



Very good pairing.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mickeyvee said:


> Hmmm.. do I smell some leakage here??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I saw that too, and started drooling...
  
 Optical Schiit:
 Wow, Look At This Schiit!
 Did you see that Schiit?!
 I saw that Schiit coming a mile away.
 That new Schiit makes my eyes bleed.
 Even a blind man can hear optical Schiit....


----------



## genclaymore

jason stoddard said:


> No 2-channel DAC will do Dolby Digital...so beware.


 
 Depends on the Dac as my Audio-GD NFB 15.32 Accepts DD and DTS signal and works thru Coax and optical, Also It's VIA usb32 usb input accept Blu ray Audio as I watched Plenty of Blu ray's with mine and non of them switched to PCM, they was DTS-HD and DD-MA, same with  DD and DTS with DVD's. I have to use Windvd as PowerDVd don't do Blu ray audio like it used to with it.


----------



## darinf

Apparently my repaired Vali is nowhere to be found. So they sent me a new one overnight.
  
 This one rings a LOT less that my previous one. There is still a tiny bit of ringing, but nothing like my original unit which was one of the early shipping units.
  
 As promised, here's the photos of the tubes inside.


----------



## cddc

darinf said:


> Apparently my repaired Vali is nowhere to be found. So they sent me a new one overnight.
> 
> This one rings a LOT less that my previous one. There is still a tiny bit of ringing, but nothing like my original unit which was one of the early shipping units.
> 
> As promised, here's the photos of the tubes inside.


 
  
 Wondering if the tiny bit of ringing issue with your new vali was caused by using low impedance headphones?
  
 I heard the ringing issue is much alleviated for high impedance headphones, like HD650, HD800...


----------



## darinf

cddc said:


> Wondering if the tiny bit of ringing issue with your new vali was caused by using low impedance headphones?
> 
> I heard the ringing issue is much alleviated for high impedance headphones, like HD650, HD800...


 
 I was under the impression that the ringing on the Vali is never eliminated completely.
  
 I am using HD800's. When I plug in the headphones, I hear fairly low level ringing that goes away after about 15 seconds. To get louder ringing, I have to tap on the case pretty hard with my fingernails. If I tap with just my finger, I don't get any ringing.
  
 I am totally OK with this amount of ringing. It's generally so low level that even when there is ringing and you have music playing, you can't even hear it. My previous unit would ring so loud when I touched the volume knob that you could hear the ringing loud when the HD800's were sitting on the headphone stand.


----------



## cddc

abhinit90 said:


> In my case the foam itself came loose :|
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If this is the case, I would suggest Schiit (or possibly DIY) to drill 2 holes on the PCB around each tube, and then use some metal wire or heat resistant band to fix the tube and foam onto the PCB.


----------



## cddc

darinf said:


> I was under the impression that the ringing on the Vali is never eliminated completely.
> 
> I am using HD800's. When I plug in the headphones, I hear fairly low level ringing that goes away after about 15 seconds. To get louder ringing, I have to tap on the case pretty hard with my fingernails. If I tap with just my finger, I don't get any ringing.
> 
> I am totally OK with this amount of ringing. It's generally so low level that even when there is ringing and you have music playing, you can't even hear it. My previous unit would ring so loud when I touched the volume knob that you could hear the ringing loud when the HD800's were sitting on the headphone stand.


 
  
 I heard the ringring issue is worse for low impedance headphones.
  
 But 15 seconds of ringing is not an issue anymore. I can definitely stand 10 - 30 seconds of ringring


----------



## CJs06

darinf said:


> Apparently my repaired Vali is nowhere to be found. So they sent me a new one overnight.
> 
> This one rings a LOT less that my previous one. There is still a tiny bit of ringing, but nothing like my original unit which was one of the early shipping units.
> 
> As promised, here's the photos of the tubes inside.


 
 Nice! Thats really cool they sent you a new Vali.


----------



## Billheiser

cddc said:


> I heard the ringring issue is worse for low impedance headphones.
> 
> But 15 seconds of ringing is not an issue anymore. I can definitely stand 10 - 30 seconds of ringring



The ringing is due to the inherent microphonics of the tubes. I don't know why the impedance of the headphones would matter. Am I missing something?


----------



## cddc

billheiser said:


> The ringing is due to the inherent microphonics of the tubes. I don't know why the impedance of the headphones would matter. Am I missing something?


 
  
 Not too sure about the theory behind it...possibly high impedance helps to settle down the turbulence caused by microphonics quicker


----------



## cddc

BTW, nice tiny sunfish, Billheiser


----------



## Billheiser

cddc said:


> BTW, nice tiny sunfish, Billheiser


 
 You should have seen the one that got away.
  
 Vali comment in a moment, but first this:  
  
 Q.  Why does no one ever take Skrillex fishing?
 A.  Because he always drops the bass.
  
  
 That's a great great joke.


----------



## Billheiser

cddc said:


> I heard the ringring issue is worse for low impedance headphones.
> 
> But 15 seconds of ringing is not an issue anymore. I can definitely stand 10 - 30 seconds of ringring


 
 I just performed a test, comparing a low impedance and a high impedance headphone from the Vali amp.  I used Sennheiser HD600 (300 ohms) and Sennheiser Momentum on-ears (18 ohms).  On 2 trials for each, I heard 20 seconds of ringing when I plugged each one in (tried my best to plug each one in with same amount of force).  So, no difference in amount or duration in ringing, for me, in this one experiment.   I will submit results to the Journal of Casual Three Minute Experimental Science.


----------



## cddc

billheiser said:


> You should have seen the one that got away.
> 
> Vali comment in a moment, but first this:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Poor Skrillex...


----------



## cddc

billheiser said:


> I just performed a test, comparing a low impedance and a high impedance headphone from the Vali amp.  I used Sennheiser HD600 (300 ohms) and Sennheiser Momentum on-ears (18 ohms).  On 2 trials for each, I heard 20 seconds of ringing when I plugged each one in (tried my best to plug each one in with same amount of force).  So, no difference in amount or duration in ringing, for me, in this one experiment.   I will submit results to the Journal of Casual Three Minute Experimental Science.


 
  
 I am not too sure about the source...I guess somewhere in the middle of this thread some people mentioned ringring was alleviated for their high impedance phones


----------



## PearsonNunn

I just got a Vali a month ago and it is great. It's the first and only desktop amp I have ever had, and may be the only one I ever need.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

billheiser said:


> I just performed a test, comparing a low impedance and a high impedance headphone from the Vali amp.  I used Sennheiser HD600 (300 ohms) and Sennheiser Momentum on-ears (18 ohms).  On 2 trials for each, I heard 20 seconds of ringing when I plugged each one in (tried my best to plug each one in with same amount of force).  So, no difference in amount or duration in ringing, for me, in this one experiment.   I will submit results to the Journal of Casual Three Minute Experimental Science.


 
 Confirmed, ringing is no different from the 600ohm DT880s I had to the 32ohm Grados I have now. Maybe a little bit louder on the lower impedance, but it's miniscule.


----------



## Rem0o

Impressive how people talk more about a 15 seconds sound side-effect than the actual sound of the amp with this thing your supposed to listen... you know.... whati is it called.....

 Ah yes, MUSIC..


----------



## Billheiser

Nice sarcasm. This is a specific forum about the equipment which allows us to access the music. And this is an unusual problem - - a very audible high pitched ee-Eee-ee that interferes with playing the music for a little while. If you heard an annoying squeal every time you turned on your living room light, you might mention that too, without meaning that you don't appreciate light.


----------



## Xyzygy

billheiser said:


> And this is an unusual problem


 
  
 No, it was acknowledged by Schiit since the beginning. Months ago. Documented to death in this thread months ago.
  
 As for the sound, it's still oh so delicious. Go Schiit!


----------



## Billheiser

xyzygy said:


> No, it was acknowledged by Schiit since the beginning. Months ago. Documented to death in this thread months ago.
> 
> As for the sound, it's still oh so delicious. Go Schiit!



You misunderstand me. An audible ringing in a headphone amp is unusual - but in this Schiit model it's common, as we are all noting.


----------



## Feynman

My Vali is ringing like crazy, if I touch the volume knob it starts ringing, if I touch the headphone cable it starts ringing etc etc. However, I'm not sending it back since I'm across the atlantic. :/


----------



## SpartanX58

Hi guys, I've recently bought an AKG K612 PRO and I'm looking for an amp to drive it. I want to know the differences and similarities between the HiFiMAN EF-2A and the Schiit Vali, their pros and cons and wich one best synergyses with my K612. Metal and Industrial are my musical tastes.


----------



## cddc

feynman said:


> My Vali is ringing like crazy, if I touch the volume knob it starts ringing, if I touch the headphone cable it starts ringing etc etc. However, I'm not sending it back since I'm across the atlantic. :/


 
  
 Try to stick the tubes back to the foams to see if it helps.


----------



## SpartanX58

Which one is better for the K612, the Schiit Vali or the HiFiMAN EF-2A?


----------



## TwinACStacks

Vali sounds GREAT with My K702's and even with my more sensitive K550's. Also works well with My Senn 650's But the More I listen the more I prefer the AKG's. The Senns may have to go. I will wait until they have 300 Hrs on them like the AKG's before I make any decisions though.
  





 TWIN


----------



## cddc

prsut said:


> My Vali is not ringing, but for EU users it seems shipping for warranty repair is really high. I am thinking about buying some 6088 tubes from ebay for reserve. For $15 one from 10 tubes MUST be ok...


 
  
 10 tubes seem too many. The tubes in vali can run 10,000 - 20,000 hours according to cnet. So I think 4 of them as backup should be good enough.
  
 BTW, does Schiit sell vali tubes?
  
 I couldn't find them on their website. I think Schiit should sell vali tubes at $10 for 4 or 6.


----------



## tehsprayer

cddc said:


> 10 tubes seem too many. The tubes in vali can run 10,000 - 20,000 hours according to cnet. So I think 4 of them as backup should be good enough.
> 
> BTW, does Schiit sell vali tubes?
> 
> I couldn't find them on their website. I think Schiit should sell vali tubes at $10 for 4 or 6.




Schiit you must take in the Vali because the tubes are soldered on


----------



## genclaymore

cddc said:


> 10 tubes seem too many. The tubes in vali can run 10,000 - 20,000 hours according to cnet. So I think 4 of them as backup should be good enough.
> 
> BTW, does Schiit sell vali tubes?
> 
> I couldn't find them on their website. I think Schiit should sell vali tubes at $10 for 4 or 6.


 

 Same, I also think it shouldn't solder on but have a 4 pin slot for easier replacement so you dont gotta send the unit in all the time when those die or when warranty is up.


----------



## cddc

tehsprayer said:


> Schiit you must take in the Vali because the tubes are soldered on


 
  
 i think it is a relatively easy DIY with a soldering iron...should be easier than sending the vali back
  
  


genclaymore said:


> Same, I also think it shouldn't solder on but have a 4 pin slot for easier replacement so you dont gotta send the unit in all the time when those die or when warranty is up.


 
  
 I hope so too...but seems not likely considering the cost of adding extra sockets.
  
 But I do hope Schiit at lease should provide vali tubes rather than ask customers to send vali back for tube replacement - too inconvenient and costly


----------



## sling5s

I've had this for couple months now.  It's my all time favorite amp.  
 To me, the Vali with Bifrost Uber combo beats the Violectric V200 and V800 I had (for all my headphones).  
 The V200 was warm but too dry(& congested) for my tastes and V800 very resolving and transparent but lacked the musicality.
  
 To me, the Vali is is not only more resolving in the micro details than the V200 but way more beautiful sounding.
 The Vali reminds me of the Woo Audio W6 (with all the upgrades) but with more micro details.
  
 It sounds better than any amp I had in the $500-$1200 range. 
  
 Purrin was right when he said that the Vali to him sounds better than the Woo Audio 6 (not SE) and Woo Audio W7.


----------



## genclaymore

cddc said:


> i think it is a relatively easy DIY with a soldering iron...should be easier than sending the vali back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yea its really inconvenient and it really a deal breaker for me,Which why I might get a LD MKII do to the fact if something happens to the tubes, I could simply take theme out and replace them. Instead of sending the whole unit back each time.


----------



## kalibur

I am guessing if one could replace the tubes, it would not have been just $99. Seeing the expected lifespan one could get out of them, just get a new unit when the tubes fail. Simple. Certainly sounds great with my K712s thus far.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Given the lifespan of these tubes there is a good chance you will replace other components first! Replacing 6088s is an easy task in amps anyway with five simple solid core wire out leads.


----------



## genclaymore

kalibur said:


> I am guessing if one could replace the tubes, it would not have been just $99. Seeing the expected lifespan one could get out of them, just get a new unit when the tubes fail. Simple. Certainly sounds great with my K712s thus far.


 
 That not simple if you trying to buy something that you hope last for a long time, if it fails after the warranty, I surely wouldn't buy another one, I would just buy something that last longer or has user replaceable options. As I not one to buy something again after a component fail on it after the warranty is up, even tho  shipping it back would be costly do to shipping, having a extended warranty purchase option to get more then 2 years warranty would work,Then that wouldn't bother me that much.


----------



## New Yorker

Honestly, a discussion about the Mona Lisa on this (and, for that matter, almost any) internet forum would quickly degenerate into a four page debate about the frame.

Anyway, as Schitt says repeatedly on their website, dude, it's $119.


----------



## genclaymore

I still don't see why i would want to buy it two times after even if it was good. If it had extended warranty options that you could buy, then I would have a higher chance of buying it. I just don't fancy the Two year warranty as stuff usually happen afterwards and I wont fancy buying it again when the tubes and all I saying is if there are other tube amp's that cost a bit more then $119 that has tube sockets for replacing tubes, I don't see why Schiit couldn't do it unless they tried and couldn't come up with a way to do it when they was trying other tubes or was limited by size.


----------



## Barry S

The tubes have a lifespan of 10,000-20,000 hours--you might never have to replace them. Schiit also stated that they'd replace the tubes for $20 out of warranty, and the Vali is small and light--pretty cheap to ship. I wouldn't be too concerned.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I prefer the Vali to my LD 4se as well where tube life is a fraction of the time.


----------



## prsut

barry s said:


> The tubes have a lifespan of 10,000-20,000 hours--you might never have to replace them. Schiit also stated that they'd replace the tubes for $20 out of warranty, and the Vali is small and light--pretty cheap to ship. I wouldn't be too concerned.


 

 Lifespan is one side of the coin. Those small tubes are crucial for total Vali's sound signature. My left channel was bit dull  compared to right (having very "thin" and trained ears as former NAD, Dynaudio etc. reseller) and only tiing came from left too. Yes, I bought 10 tubes pack for USD15, replaced left tube and voila - left channel is OK now. More than that, left channel is almost black silent on my denons. Only dampened with dynamat (1cm width stripe around tube) while waiting for selfadhesive sorbothane pads. Then I'll replace right tube too...
 I know i lost warranty, but note also that total cost for Vali directly from Schiit including customs and shipping is 170EUR. and this is cost of two Vali's. (USD235)


----------



## Barry S

prsut said:


> Lifespan is one side of the coin. Those small tubes are crucial for total Vali's sound signature. My left channel was bit dull  compared to right (having very "thin" and trained ears as former NAD, Dynaudio etc. reseller) and only tiing came from left too. Yes, I bought 10 tubes pack for USD15, replaced left tube and voila - left channel is OK now. More than that, left channel is almost black silent on my denons. Only dampened with dynamat (1cm width stripe around tube) while waiting for selfadhesive sorbothane pads. Then I'll replace right tube too...
> I know i lost warranty, but note also that total cost for Vali directly from Schiit including customs and shipping is 170EUR. and this is cost of two Vali's. (USD235)


 

 International shipping completely changes the equation. I'd do the same thing in your place, since I'm comfortable doing a bit of soldering. I've toyed with the idea of making a separate isolation mount for the tubes.


----------



## elwappo99

I have I think one of the first Vali's that Schiit shipped out. It's gotten to the point where every 3-4 weeks I've got to open up the case and push the tube erections back down. 
  
 Has anyone found a more permanent solution ???


----------



## fenderf4i

elwappo99 said:


> I have I think one of the first Vali's that Schiit shipped out. It's gotten to the point where every 3-4 weeks I've got to open up the case and push the tube erections back down.
> 
> Has anyone found a more permanent solution ???


 
  
  
 Bend the leads themselves with pliers instead of just pushing the tubes down, so that the leads aren't pulling up on the tubes.


----------



## cddc

I find the vali very HOT - well, you know I'm not talking about sexiness
  
 I feel if it can be a little bit hotter, i can fry an egg on it


----------



## cddc

elwappo99 said:


> I have I think one of the first Vali's that Schiit shipped out. It's gotten to the point where every 3-4 weeks I've got to open up the case and push the tube erections back down.
> 
> Has anyone found a more permanent solution ???


 
  
 I think the ringring is not a big problem. 
  
 It does not ring all the time. In my case it only rings for 20 - 40 seconds after plugging in the headphone. Then it is gone. As I do not plug and unplug often, I don't really care about the ringing issue.
  
 I don't even bother opening the case to push the tubes down.


----------



## TwinACStacks

elwappo99 said:


> I have I think one of the first Vali's that Schiit shipped out. It's gotten to the point where every 3-4 weeks I've got to open up the case and push the tube erections back down.
> 
> Has anyone found a more permanent solution ???


 
 I left a suggestion for a permanent fix a page or so back.
  





 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Replacing these inexpensive NOS Tubes is really a Moot Point. They have a VERY long Life and anyone with a Modicum of soldering ability can do it. I'll tell you what, You pay shipping both ways and I'll replace the tubes when you are ready for them for free.
  
 Go Ahead and pop for that big $119 bucks...
  








 TWIN


----------



## DigitalFreak

Vali in the house woot woot


----------



## Rossliew

digitalfreak said:


> Vali in the house woot woot


 
 You won't regret the purchase. A very versatile amp that pairs decently with most headphones, both low and high impedance. Sounds pretty decent with my HD800s too.


----------



## jexby

rossliew said:


> You won't regret the purchase. A very versatile amp that pairs decently with most headphones, both low and high impedance. Sounds pretty decent with my HD800s too.


 
  
 As someone with a Vali, but always curious about HD800, I'd be interested in your summary about how the HD800 sounds (good and bad) with the Vali.
 music genres especially, since I'm not a true classical or jazz listener.
 thanks.


----------



## Rossliew

jexby said:


> As someone with a Vali, but always curious about HD800, I'd be interested in your summary about how the HD800 sounds (good and bad) with the Vali.
> music genres especially, since I'm not a true classical or jazz listener.
> thanks.


 
 I listen almost exclusively to metal with my HD800 and the occasional Canto-pop tune. Gimme a couple days to have a listen with the Vali before I come back to you...enjoying the 800 too much with my Little Dot Mk III now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 From what i can recall, early impressions were it's quite resolving for the price - i could hear pretty good separation of instruments, soundstage was naturally expansive, bass was a tad light and treble was prominent yet not painful..mids were natural with vocals being present and not lost in the mix..


----------



## ace54

how many earphones can this amp support with an audio splitter?


----------



## TwinACStacks

Broke in BOTH my K550's and K702's with a  splitter at the same time. No Problems for over 200hrs Straight non stop running for burn-in. 32Ohm + 64 Ohm. Directly off Analog audio outputs from CD Player to Vali at 1/2 Volume via splitter to both headphones.
  








 TWIN


----------



## tehsprayer

Wrong thread


----------



## cddc

cddc said:


> I think the ringring is not a big problem.
> 
> It does not ring all the time. In my case it only rings for 20 - 40 seconds after plugging in the headphone. Then it is gone. As I do not plug and unplug often, I don't really care about the ringing issue.
> 
> I don't even bother opening the case to push the tubes down.


 
  
 I find it also rings each time I turn on the vali (without plug and unplug the headphone). The ringring disappears in 30 - 60 seconds.
  
 Seems not a problem. When the music starts to play, I cannot hear ringing anymore.


----------



## Rossliew

Small issue for a wonderful sounding amp.


----------



## cddc

A quick question for you guys: if you also own a Modi, how do you handle it when not listening to music? Unplug the usb cable or leave it on.
  
 If you do not unplug the usb cable, Modi's light is always on ...


----------



## SpartanX58

Which amp is better for the K612, the Vali or the HiFi MAN EF-2A?


----------



## Rossliew

cddc said:


> A quick question for you guys: if you also own a Modi, how do you handle it when not listening to music? Unplug the usb cable or leave it on.
> 
> If you do not unplug the usb cable, Modi's light is always on ...


 
 Your choice, really. IMO, the light is not that distracting. At most, it just draws power from your PC/laptop. Or just unplug the cable.


----------



## cddc

rossliew said:


> Your choice, really. IMO, the light is not that distracting. At most, it just draws power from your PC/laptop. Or just unplug the cable.


 
  
 Indeed, light is not so distracting. I am more concerned about heat and aging of components inside Modi.


----------



## moriez

Had the Vali here for a day before returning it. It had already been said that it's quite similar to the A2 which I quickly agreed with when I started listening. My prob is that the low end is overly well-rounded (emphasized?) in these amps. Too much for my taste anyway. I'm curious, what's your views on that? Also, the size man the size. I knew it was tiny and never bothered to actually think about the dimension specifications but it's sooo small! It's like a portable amp. At unpacking I asked myself if they sent me a dummy miniature or something. However stupid this sounds, I couldn't take it very serious /dislike


----------



## rptlead

i was also taken aback by the size. lol. but i imho, good value for the price point given it can drive my hd800 well (lots of room for improvement of course)


----------



## cddc

i think the size is perfect, especially when stacked on modi, sits perfectly beside my mac. the silver color also matches my mac well. again this is just personal prefererence
  
 i feel the bass is not so punchy as the t-amp inside my Sony CMT-BX20i bookshelf system....so sort of contrary to your overly emphasized...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 however, the mids are awesome. no matter male or female vocals - so touching


----------



## DigitalFreak

*Taken From The Audio Journal Of A DigitalFreak*

*Sound Byte: The Vali*

 Finally got around to plugging in my HifiMan HE-400 to my Vali amp. This little amp is crazy good. For 119.00 bones this thing has no business sounding this good but it does. Both Schiit and NuForce have made me do a double take and realize that one doesn't have to sell ones soul to have a nice sounding audio rig and experience top tier audio.

 The HE-400 scales nicely with amping, it always has. Out of all my amps only my ALO RX MKIII-B bests it, it better considering its over 600 bones. Even so, the Vali isn't cleanly beaten. My AKG Q701 for example sounds like crud on the ALO amp, no synergy what-so-ever. Its the Q701 that probably benefits the most from the Vali. Under the Vali's toolage the Q701 comes alive and its bass finally has depth and hits hard. The snap I'm hearing on the drums with the Vali driving the Q701 is sublime. Along with the lows the mids seemed to have filled out albeit note presentation still sounds as crisp and clean as it ever did. The highs, still very forward but now its no longer as spiky sounding. Gone with the spikes is that God awful metallic tinge, about time. End result, the treble sounds wonderfully smooth. Astounding what a little cheaply priced amp can do to a headphone.

 Bleh, I've gone off on a tangent again. I originally started this entry with the intention of documenting my impressions with the HE-400. Instead I've gone on and on about the Q701. Shouldn't be surprised, jumbled mind jumbled entry.

 The HE-400 seems to love the Vali as much as the RX MKIII-B. Listening to it, grooving to Papadosio as I type this, I find myself both entertained and awed by how nimble the HE-400 sounds as it effortlessly belts out great sounding music. The HE-400 on the Aune T1 with Gold Lion Tube sounded good. On the Vali the HE-400 sounds fantastic. The Aune T1's amp section never had a chance against the Vali. The bass sounds cleaner and far faster. Although the Vali seemed to smooth the highs on the Q701 the HE-400 still has the same bite in the upper registers only cleaner. The mids are what I'm still trying to figure out with this pairing. They're far cleaner with the Vali then with the Aune T1. The question I still have to answer for myself is if it's as clean as with the ALO RXIII-B. So far, in my book, it's a tough call. Since I've bought the Aune T1 into the equation, wonder how the Vali would sound if i was to pair it with the Aune's DAC section instead of my ALO CLAS-db? Looks like I have something else to investigate tomorrow.

 Jason Stoddard was the mind who designed the Vali and Warren Chi was the guy who said it would blow me away. Good thing neither of them are standing beside me right now. If they were I'd be getting slugged for kissing both of them on the mouth. What a crazy sounding amp.
  


Spoiler: This is what happens when you have a new amp to play with


----------



## TwinACStacks

Moriez, you aren't used to Tubes? They tend to be much warmer than SS amps. Knowing the AKG's were quite Accurate to the point of being clinical is precisely WHY I opted for the Vali instead of the Magni. As I had expected the extra fidelity of the tube driven circuit rounds out the AKG's nicely, although it would be nice to have the extra wattage of the Magni with the 702's.
  
 From my understanding the Magni is quite neutral in coloring, maybe you should opt for it.
  








 TWIN


----------



## boombobby289

Between Schiit Vali and Little Dot I+, which is a better choice for low impedance cans like AKG K550 & Beyer DT880 (32 Ohm) ?
 Which one has a wider sound stage, better separation, more detail ?
  
 Does Vali allow tube rolling ?
 If yes, what are the recommended tubes for better sound stage and detail ?


----------



## tehsprayer

digitalfreak said:


> [COLOR=FF0000]*Taken From The Audio Journal Of A DigitalFreak*[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=0000CD]*Sound Byte: The Vali*[/COLOR]
> 
> ...



You enjoy the Vali with t50rp mods specifically the alpha dogs? Getting them soon with the Vali.


----------



## genclaymore

boombobby289 said:


> Between Schiit Vali and Little Dot I+, which is a better choice for low impedance cans like AKG K550 & Beyer DT880 (32 Ohm) ?
> Which one has a wider sound stage, better separation, more detail ?
> 
> Does Vali allow tube rolling ?
> If yes, what are the recommended tubes for better sound stage and detail ?


 

 Vali doesn't alloud tube rolling, it has mini tubes that's on the PCB it self, Removing them your self with tools voids the warranty. So if your planning to tube roll, then the vali isn't for you.  If not then its a good choice if you want to try out a tube amp that's affordable if you can get past the non tube rolling part.


----------



## SpartanX58

boombobby289 said:


> Between Schiit Vali and Little Dot I+, which is a better choice for low impedance cans like AKG K550 & Beyer DT880 (32 Ohm) ?
> Which one has a wider sound stage, better separation, more detail ?
> 
> Does Vali allow tube rolling ?
> If yes, what are the recommended tubes for better sound stage and detail ?


 
 The Vali doesn't allow tube rolling and is not recomended for low impedance headphones, it has a lot of noise... I think solid state amps (like the magni) are better for low impedance headphones.


----------



## SpartanX58

So the Vali does sound good with the Q701, so will it sound good with the K612?


----------



## moriez

twinacstacks said:


> Moriez, you aren't used to Tubes? They tend to be much warmer than SS amps. Knowing the AKG's were quite Accurate to the point of being clinical is precisely WHY I opted for the Vali instead of the Magni. As I had expected the extra fidelity of the tube driven circuit rounds out the AKG's nicely, although it would be nice to have the extra wattage of the Magni with the 702's.
> 
> From my understanding the Magni is quite neutral in coloring, maybe you should opt for it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't think it's the fact they're tube based. The Asgard 2 is solid state and sounded very similar to my ears. For headphones that have a beyond neutral toward brighter signature and being on the lighter side of bass Vali could work. Not with my TH-600 which has plenty on it's own nor with the Senn 540. Appreciate the mentioning of Magni but like you have read, size does matter. I will skip the Schiit until perhaps something new comes out.
  
  


spartanx58 said:


> is not recomended for low impedance headphones, it has a lot of noise...


 
  
 It's not recommended? Didn't even know that. About noise, The Vali I had was surprisingly silent. Only when inserting the jack I heard a faint ~20 seconds slowly fading ring. It was my biggest ''worry'' before buying but turned out to be the least bothersome.


----------



## SpartanX58

moriez said:


> It's not recommended? Didn't even know that. About noise, The Vali I had was surprisingly silent. Only when inserting the jack I heard a faint ~20 seconds slowly fading ring. It was my biggest ''worry'' before buying but turned out to be the least bothersome.


 
  
 Well, maybe your headphones are low sensitivity ones, so the noise doesn't appear at all, but for low impedance, high sensitivity ones, the noise can be very noticeable.


----------



## rudeboybass

could someone compare the vali to the asgard for the he400 for me? which would be better?


----------



## TwinACStacks

moriez said:


> Don't think it's the fact they're tube based. The Asgard 2 is solid state and sounded very similar to my ears. For headphones that have a beyond neutral toward brighter signature and being on the lighter side of bass Vali could work. Not with my TH-600 which has plenty on it's own nor with the Senn 540. Appreciate the mentioning of Magni but like you have read, size does matter. I will skip the Schiit until perhaps something new comes out.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not recommended? Didn't even know that. About noise, The Vali I had was surprisingly silent. Only when inserting the jack I heard a faint ~20 seconds slowly fading ring. It was my biggest ''worry'' before buying but turned out to be the least bothersome.


 

 Moriez, My experience with Schiit amps is VERY limited. They could all possibly have the same signature sound. My expertise is really in guitars and their Tube Amplifiers, specifically Marshall. This probably explains my affinity for the AKG's brighter sound. I also have a pair of Senn 650's that I really don't care for as much as the AKG's. I'm still burning them in but I expect their warmness, (Read Senn Veil here), is why I'm a little off put by their overall presentation like the much more (IMHO) neutral 702's. I may get used to them, who knows? For that kind of $$$$ I'm damn sure gonna use them one way or the other.
  








 TWIN


----------



## elwappo99

spartanx58 said:


> So the Vali does sound good with the Q701, so will it sound good with the K612?


 
  
 It's hard to say. The Q701 and K612 sound somewhat similar, but their drivers are totally different. I don't think it's a straight conclusion to draw.
  


moriez said:


> Had the Vali here for a day before returning it. It had already been said that it's quite similar to the A2 which I quickly agreed with when I started listening. My prob is that the low end is overly well-rounded (emphasized?) in these amps. Too much for my taste anyway. I'm curious, what's your views on that? Also, the size man the size. I knew it was tiny and never bothered to actually think about the dimension specifications but it's sooo small! It's like a portable amp. At unpacking I asked myself if they sent me a dummy miniature or something. However stupid this sounds, I couldn't take it very serious /dislike


 
  
 I think there is a little emphasis in the lower regions. A quick glance over your profile, I see you have the MA900 and TH600 which both sit a little bass heavy, certainly not as much with the MA900. I hook up AKG's K712 and Q701 which by contrast are a little bass light, so the Vali compliments them well. I can see how you may not have found a good match.
  
  
 In terms of size, I really like the size. At one point I had a full desk cluttered with amps, DACs, DDCs, and all kinds of stuff. I had an Audio-GD Reference 1 DAC, with an Audio-GD Phoenix, and a Little Dot MKVI+. I'm really glad Schiit packed such a good amp into such a small size.


----------



## UmustBKidn

cddc said:


> Indeed, light is not so distracting. I am more concerned about heat and aging of components inside Modi.


 
  
 My Modi remains plugged in whether I use it or not. After a year of that, no issues so far.
  
 I cover the LED with a couple of post-it notes. That tones it down a bit.


----------



## Maxx134

I posted a while back how I considered my Vali like a baby woo wa7 in signature. .
So I have been hording this baby untill now..
I will be letting go my vali due to non use if anyone interested:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/716385/two-amps-like-new-vali-schiit-amp-and-an-o2-amp/0_20#post_10496156

I doubt if I put 2hrs use total on it..
As I have the woo wa7


----------



## AnalogSavior

I've been curious recently about what exactly are the differences between Vali and Magni.  I don't know much about amp design (ie almost nothing) but I do wish to learn.  Outside of the 6088s providing the voltage gain, what other differences are there between Vali and Magni (other than Vali sounding a bit better to my ears)? 
  
 Can anyone with electronics knowledge satiate my curious mind?


----------



## K.T.

analogsavior said:


> I've been curious recently about what exactly are the differences between Vali and Magni.  I don't know much about amp design (ie almost nothing) but I do wish to learn.  Outside of the 6088s providing the voltage gain, what other differences are there between Vali and Magni (other than Vali sounding a bit better to my ears)?
> 
> Can anyone with electronics knowledge satiate my curious mind?


 
  
 The tube input stage is the only difference as far as I know.
  
 Schiit may have tweaked the parameters of the Vali's solid state output stage to better accommodate the tubed input stage. So the output stage on both amps may or may not be exactly the same.
  
 But conceptually, the amp is a volume pot, input stage, output stage. The only difference being the input stage, and whatever adjustments to the output stage.


----------



## AnalogSavior

k.t. said:


> The tube input stage is the only difference as far as I know.
> 
> Schiit may have tweaked the parameters of the Vali's solid state output stage to better accommodate the tubed input stage. So the output stage on both amps may or may not be exactly the same.
> 
> But conceptually, the amp is a volume pot, input stage, output stage. The only difference being the input stage, and whatever adjustments to the output stage.


 
  
 Maybe its just me, but I find it so interesting changing the input stage altered the sound as much as it did.  While not a huge difference, I did find it easily noticeable.
  
 I'll have to do a little more digging, as the tech side of things seems to be calling my name lately.


----------



## K.T.

analogsavior said:


> Maybe its just me, but I find it so interesting changing the input stage altered the sound as much as it did.  While not a huge difference, I did find it easily noticeable.
> 
> I'll have to do a little more digging, as the tech side of things seems to be calling my name lately.


 
  
 Yeah, the difference between can be amazing.
  
 Tubes and solid state sound different, no doubt. Both have the potential to sound very good, but they surely sound different.
  
 That's why changing one stage in the amp from solid state to tubes, especially an early stage, can dramatically impact the sound.
  
 You will also find that huge differences can exist between solid state components, as well. It's not just a difference between tubes and solid state.
  
 For example, changing out one solid state transistor for another can yield subtle or big changes in the sound as well.
  
 And anyone who has swapped op-amps in an amplifier can tell you how much that can change the sound.
  
 So don't surprised that the difference is large.


----------



## TwinACStacks

AFAIK The magni boasts a higher Wattage output and significantly less THD than the Vali. It also supposedly sounds MUCH more Clinical than the Vali. The reason the Vali sounds the way it does ie: warmer, is due primarily to the HIGHER distortion level provided by the Tubes. This might sound contrary to what it should be except that a Tube analog wave signal is chocked full of even-order harmonics, which are pleasing to human hearing. You interpret these harmonics as a "Warmth" or "Full-bodiedness" of sound.
  
 Layman's explanation is best I can do.
  








 TWIN


----------



## cddc

twinacstacks said:


> AFAIK The magni boasts a higher Wattage output and significantly less THD than the Vali. It also supposedly sounds MUCH more Clinical than the Vali. The reason the Vali sounds the way it does ie: warmer, is due primarily to the HIGHER distortion level provided by the Tubes. This might sound contrary to what it should be except that a Tube analog wave signal is chocked full of even-order harmonics, which are pleasing to human hearing. You interpret these harmonics as a "Warmth" or "Full-bodiedness" of sound.
> 
> Layman's explanation is best I can do.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You must be a fan of SS amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I find Vali very nice in that it removes the harshness in the highs. The harshness in treble might be exaggerated in SS amps though, i believe.


----------



## Defiant00

cddc said:


> You must be a fan of SS amps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Exaggerated treble harshness is a typical problem in poorly implemented SS amps, not just SS amps in general.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

k.t. said:


> The tube input stage is the only difference as far as I know.


 
  
  
 Um, no--it's a completely different topology. The only thing that is remotely similar is the Class-AB output stage. And even that isn't all that close.


----------



## AnalogSavior

jason stoddard said:


> Um, no--it's a completely different topology. The only thing that is remotely similar is the Class-AB output stage. And even that isn't all that close.


 
  
 Ah, so it isn't simply a modified Magni. Though maybe the fact that it is a hybrid means the Magni design couldn't have been reworked with good result?  I don't know nearly enough about amp design to really make that sort of judgement, but either way its interesting.
  
 Thanks for commenting.


----------



## sling5s

This is my opinion and only my opinion as to why this amp is not getting the praise it deserves.  I don't intend to offend anyone but I'm just trying to understand why it's not getting more attention.
  
 To me, the Vali is good enough to be compared with TOTL amps rather than other budget amps; but I do believe certain characteristics are throwing a lot of people off maybe for the following reasons:  
  
 1. People who are looking for TOTL amps for their TOTL headphones are dismissing it because of it's price, form and factor.   
  
 2. In stead, it draws a lot of people who buy it for the price (maybe as their first amp) and therefore, have limited experience with higher end amps and consequently are not able to evaluate it properly.  It's sounds good "for the price" type of evaluations.  Honestly, when I'm evaluating an amp, the first thing I listen for are wide soundstage, controled and hard hitting bass impact and macro level details and dynamics.  I don't tend to and I was never taught to listen for the subtle micro level details and micro level dynamics that Vali excels at.  This takes more experience (with high end amps) and even than more time to hear and appreciate.  
  
 3. People who are buying the Vali are pairing with the Modi (because of the price bracket and because the Modi stacks well with the Vali) or some other budget dac or even some other budget headphone and it's limiting the potential of the Vali.  The Vali with a budget dac is going to sound like a really good budget amp.  I believe if the Vali came in the Bifrost chassis they would pair it with the Bifrost or if the Vali came in the Gungnir chassis, people would pair it with Gungnir and therefore get better reviews. 
  
 4. Lastly, the Vali is not ideal with high sensitive/low impedance headphones nor ideal with high demanding hard to drive headphones like LCD-2/3.  So it kind of limits many headphones and buyers.  Personally, I do wish the Vali had more power to drive the LCD-2.  It's sublime at low to medium volumes but when I want to crank it, I can hear it loosing steam. 
  
 Conclusion:
 I think there are lot of amps that do many things better than the Vali.   But what the Vali does, it does well.  It's a hyper-detailed yet musical amp that focuses on micro level experience. 
  
 Personally my hope is that Schiit will do a Vali 2 with a gain switch for low impedance headphones and increase the power output for Orthos without changing the nature and quality of the amp.


----------



## AnalogSavior

sling5s said:


> This is my opinion and only my opinion as to why this amp is not getting the praise it deserves.  I don't intend to offend anyone but I'm just trying to understand why it's not getting more attention.
> 
> To me, the Vali is good enough to be compared with TOTL amps rather than other budget amps; but I do believe certain characteristics are throwing a lot of people off maybe for the following reasons:
> 
> *snip*


 
  
 Vali is a good amp that punches well above its weight.  I love mine and would recommend it to anyone looking for a fun, small desktop amp at any price, but I do think comparing it to a ToTL amp is a bit of exaggeration.  It has clear drawbacks that wouldn't be acceptable in a ToTL amp.
  
 But it is a damn good amp that definitely deserves praise.
  


sling5s said:


> Personally my hope is that Vali will have a gain switch for low impedance headphones and increase the power output for Orthos without changing the nature and quality of the amp.


 
  
 At its current price point, I highly doubt it.


----------



## K.T.

jason stoddard said:


> Um, no--it's a completely different topology. The only thing that is remotely similar is the Class-AB output stage. And even that isn't all that close.


 
  
 OK, thanks for setting me straight on that!
  
 Good to hear it directly from the man.


----------



## sling5s

analogsavior said:


> Vali is a good amp that punches well above its weight.  I love mine and would recommend it to anyone looking for a fun, small desktop amp at any price, but I do think comparing it to a ToTL amp is a bit of exaggeration.  It has clear drawbacks that wouldn't be acceptable in a ToTL amp.
> 
> But it is a damn good amp that definitely deserves praise.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, it's the draw backs and limitations that disqualifies it being a TOTL amp.  
 And by TOTL amps I guess I mean more those in the $1000 to $2000 bracket and not those crazy boutique $3000-6000 ones.
 Nevertheless, sound wise, in my opinion, it more than qualifies for conservative TOTL priced amps.  For example, sound wise, I take the Vali over the Violectric V200 any day.


----------



## sling5s

Here's couple of reviews by Purrin that started it all: 
  
 "Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Holy Schiit fantastic. This is tubes done right. We are talking about expansive soundstage, tube clarity, tube microdynamics, tube microdetail, tube dynamics and slam. (Yes, all the things which folks who haven't heard good tube amps don't think tubes sound like.) The first time I heard this, I almost pee'd in my pants. An amp this cheap shouldn't sound this good.

 I would seriously buy an Abyss headphone, hook it up to the Vali, and call it a day. That's how good it is. Of all the gear I've heard in the past year, this is by far the most impressive. No words can do it justice. This is tubes done right at an impossible price."  
  
 "The amp scales with DACs; e.g., differences between Gungnir, PWD2, AGD M7, can _easily _be heard. This includes tonal balance, resolution, etc." 
  
 " Anax told me he didn't want to say anything good about it because he was afraid you guys may increase the price. But he did say it's better than any other amp below $1650 that he's heard (he hasn't heard any of your other new stuff.) Personally I think you guys should price it at $1199. Or at least put it in a huge fancy chassis and price it at $1199."
  
 "mini Eddie Current'.


----------



## MickeyVee

You guys are killing me here.  Yes, the Vali is good, actually very good.  Compared to the WA6 (with Sophia Princess rectifier) it's got about the same resolution, air, extension, soundstage but is a step behind in dynamics. The WA6 hits a little harder and has lusher and more realistic mids.  Overall, the Vali sounds a lot like the WA6 but a little thinner in the mids and bottom end and slightly less dynamic.  I'd say that the Vali is 85-90% of the WA6 with the SP.  Exceptionally impressive for the price difference but with the HD800, it's noticeable. On lesser cans, it may not be quite as noticeable if at all and the Vali would be the definite choice. 
 Just sayin' and YMMMV 
  
 Edit: Testing Vali & WA6 simultaneously split out of the Naim DAC-V1 with AQ RCA splitters.


----------



## genclaymore

I been thinking about the Vali as a alt option to what I planning to go with, but I just have the feeling that I might not like it with my NFB15.32  And T90.


----------



## sling5s

mickeyvee said:


> You guys are killing me here.  Yes, the Vali is good, actually very good.  Compared to the WA6 (with Sophia Princess rectifier) it's got about the same resolution, air, extension, soundstage but is a step behind in dynamics. The WA6 hits a little harder and has lusher and more realistic mids.  Overall, the Vali sounds a lot like the WA6 but a little thinner in the mids and bottom end and slightly less dynamic.  I'd say that the Vali is 85-90% of the WA6 with the SP.  Exceptionally impressive for the price difference but with the HD800, it's noticeable. On lesser cans, it may not be quite as noticeable if at all and the Vali would be the definite choice.
> Just sayin' and YMMMV
> 
> Edit: Testing Vali & WA6 simultaneously split out of the Naim DAC-V1 with AQ RCA splitters.


 
 I totally agree with you.  At least from memory when I had the WA6 with Sophia.  It does have lusher mids, better macro dynamics and better bottom end.  But if my memory serves me right, I could be wrong, I still think when it comes to micro dynamics, the Vali still is a little better.   I just don't remember the WA6 giving me this kind of micro dynamics when I had it.


----------



## elwappo99

genclaymore said:


> I been thinking about the Vali as a alt option to what I planning to go with, but I just have the feeling that I might not like it with my NFB15.32  And T90.


 
  
 I don't think there's enough tubes in that chain to hide the treble on those T90.
  
  
 sorry. Couldn't help it


----------



## TwinACStacks

4. Lastly, the Vali is not ideal with high sensitive/low impedance headphones nor ideal with high demanding hard to drive headphones like LCD-2/3.  So it kind of limits many headphones and buyers.  Personally, I do wish the Vali had more power to drive the LCD-2.  It's sublime at low to medium volumes but when I want to crank it, I can hear it loosing steam. 





>


 
  
  
  






 I don't know if I totally agree. I was leary of pairing it with My AKG K550's because of their sensitivity and Low impedance, but found my concerns to be unfounded as it works flawlessly with them. Yes It could use a little more power I'm finding with My AKG 702's and Senn 650's, but it still sounds fantastic with these. If only Jason could up the output a Tad, maybe just a watt or two,  I would find the Vali damn near ideal.
  
 Just my 2 cents.
  








 TWIN


----------



## potterpastor

My 18 ohm Sennheiser Momentum sounds fantastic with the Vali. It's all subjective


----------



## sling5s

twinacstacks said:


> I don't know if I totally agree. I was leary of pairing it with My AKG K550's because of their sensitivity and Low impedance, but found my concerns to be unfounded as it works flawlessly with them. Yes It could use a little more power I'm finding with My AKG 702's and Senn 650's, but it still sounds fantastic with these. If only Jason could up the output a Tad, maybe just a watt or two,  I would find the Vali damn near ideal.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> ...


 
 I meant really hard to drive Orthodynamic headphones to it's full potential.  Specifically the LCD-2 and 3. 


potterpastor said:


> My 18 ohm Sennheiser Momentum sounds fantastic with the Vali. It's all subjective


 
 I personally use it for my JH13pro with an adaptor but many seem to have problems with the noise.


----------



## AnalogSavior

> Originally Posted by *sling5s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I personally use it for my JH13pro with an adaptor but many seem to have problems with the noise.


 
  
 Vali is a noisy amp.  Always a constant low level hiss.  It doesn't bother me, and is inaudible while music is playing, but I have had people tell me it was a deal breaker for them.
  
 Different people have different expectations, and tastes.  You gotta know what you are getting into when you buy an amp.


----------



## fenderf4i

It depends on the headphones. It is dead silent for me.


----------



## Billheiser

The Vali sounds great to me w HD600's, 300 ohm impedance. And plenty of power/volume on those. I've also used some 32 ohm and 38 ohm phones w Vali - there's much more audible amp noise then. It's true that while the music is playing, the noise floor is not a factor. But it tells me it really wasn't made for sensitive and low impedance cans. (As Schiit itself says on their FAQ)


----------



## Rossliew

The Vali sounds great with Senn headphones - both my HD600 and 800 sound great although it gets lesser bodied with the 800s but in no way does it make it sound overly bright.
  
 However, it didn't sound too good with the LCD XC or maybe that's because the XC isn't fully burnt in yet?


----------



## cddc

fenderf4i said:


> It depends on the headphones. It is dead silent for me.


 
  
 Agreed, completely silent for my hd650 too.
  
 Only 30 seconds ringing each time I power on the vali, but it is not a problem at all.


----------



## K.T.

The hiss is really dependent on the headphone, as some have stated.
  
 The hiss never really bothers me except when I'm using my Vali as a bedside amp. When it's quiet and I'm listening at low volume just before I fall asleep, the hiss can be very distracting. At those times, I really crave a dead silent background.
  
Well, I think I found my long term solution. I've settled on the Sennheiser PX100 II. It's light and sits on top of the ears, so no issues with the cups digging into the back of your ears when your head is on the pillow.
  
Best part is: no audible hiss with the PX100 II on the Vali. It gives me what I want in terms of silence. Great for falling asleep to.
  
 Otherwise, I've also had great results with the HD600 and the Vali. Sounds terrific!


----------



## TwinACStacks

Yep. The Vali is dead silent with my K702's and HD 650's. With the K550's there is an almost inaudible hiss with the Volume turned off completely. Very surprising for a set of 'phones with low impedance and high efficiency. I truly was expecting something objectionable.
  
 I am delighted with the Vali, I've got not so much as a burp in 250+ hrs. and I still don't hear any tube ringing. I suppose if I were to manhandle it a bit? Guess I got a good one.
  





 TWIN


----------



## sling5s

How many of you leave your Vali on all day or for hours at a time?  I work at home so I turn it on and forget it's a tube amp and leave it on sometimes for the whole day.


----------



## imackler

sling5s said:


> How many of you leave your Vali on all day or for hours at a time?  I work at home so I turn it on and forget it's a tube amp and leave it on sometimes for the whole day.


 
  
 When you see how many hours of life the Vali is estimated for, I wouldn't worry about it. I think its better to leave on all day, than to have to worry about turning it on and letting it warm up. I do kick myself though if its been hours and hasn't been used!


----------



## helljudgement

On average its on for 8 hours or so with or without use. There's one time that I accidentally leave it on for a day and half. No problem so far. Great match for the hd800.


----------



## Billheiser

IIRC, the tubes' lifespan is 10,000 - 20,000 hours. So if left on 12 hours every single day, the tubes are still fine for around 3 years+. Then if needed, Schiit will replace them for $20. Awesome. 
(I leave my non-tube Bifrost on 24/7 - no reason not to. Using a few CFL's & led light bulbs more than offsets the trivial amount of standby power used by a DAC).


----------



## Nic Rhodes

mine has been on for weeks at a time


----------



## sling5s

nic rhodes said:


> mine has been on for weeks at a time


 
 Wow!  I usually turn it off for the night after a night session after everyone goes to sleep.  The tubes having been on all day plus the silence and darkness of the night makes it a sublime and addictive listen.  I've haven't enjoyed listening to my headphones this much in a long time.
  
 My first "wow" moment came after purchasing a pair of HD580 in 2003 listening through RSA amp.  Than Vintage Grado RS1 with WA6 with Sophia in 2006. But since than, after trying many budget, mid-fi and hi-fi headphones, amps and dacs haven't had that "wow" moment again until now at 2014 with the LCD-2 Classic with Vali and Uber Bifrost.  
  
 The Vali plus Uber Bifrost are really not just the greatest bang for the buck but will give you one of the best hi-fi, hi-end musical experience one can have.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I do have to note though.  When I first got the Vali with Bifrost Uber, I thought it was good but not, wow.
 But I don't know if it's the Vali or Bifrost burn in, but after hundreds of hours, something happened.  It just opened up in a magical and musical way that transformed them from "good" to "wow".


----------



## naimless

I've reluctantly decided to sell my Vali,so if anybody in the UK is interested in picking up a Vali for less than you can get a new one from Schiit(save import & shipping fees) Please pm me.


----------



## OmarCCX

I tried the Vali with my GR07 and a 75ohm resistor, it eliminated most of the white noise but not all of it. With a 120Ω resistor, though, it sounds as clean as the magni. And sound quality doesn't seem to have changed at all so its all good.


----------



## StanD

omarccx said:


> I tried the Vali with my GR07 and a 75ohm resistor, it eliminated most of the white noise but not all of it. With a 120Ω resistor, though, it sounds as clean as the magni. And sound quality doesn't seem to have changed at all so its all good.


 
 These have a rather flat impedance curve which is why the SQ is not adversly affected by the resistor. If not for that you might not be so pleased, good for you.


----------



## AnalogSavior

analogsavior said:


> Vali is a noisy amp.  Always a constant low level hiss.  It doesn't bother me, and is inaudible while music is playing, but I have had people tell me it was a deal breaker for them.
> 
> Different people have different expectations, and tastes.  You gotta know what you are getting into when you buy an amp.


 
  
 I'd just like to take back my comment.  It was based on use with HD598s.  I just acquired some HD600s and Vali is dead silent and substantially less microphonic.  The best way to learn in this hobby is experience,  and I clearly showed my lack of experience in my previous comment.
  
 As others have mentioned, it definitely depends on the headphones you are using.
  
 Initial impressions of HD600 and Vali are: it is a stellar combination.


----------



## StanD

analogsavior said:


> I'd just like to take back my comment.  It was based on use with HD598s.  I just acquired some HD600s and Vali is dead silent and substantially less microphonic.  The best way to learn in this hobby is experience,  and I clearly showed my lack of experience in my previous comment.
> 
> As others have mentioned, it definitely depends on the headphones you are using.
> 
> Initial impressions of HD600 and Vali are: it is a stellar combination.


 
 The HD598 is more sensitive than the HD600, that is why. You probably turn the volume up more when using the HD600.


----------



## AnalogSavior

stand said:


> The HD598 is more sensitive than the HD600, that is why. You probably turn the volume up more when using the HD600.


 
  
 Yes indeed, I turn it maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn louder, depending on the song.  All of that made sense to me, and I expected it,  but I didn't expect the sensitivity to play such a role in the noise floor.
  
 Well no I know.


----------



## StanD

analogsavior said:


> Yes indeed, I turn it maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn louder, depending on the song.  All of that made sense to me, and I expected it,  but I didn't expect the sensitivity to play such a role in the noise floor.
> 
> Well no I know.


 
 I just plugged in a pair of HD558's and the noise is there, not a whopping amount but once you know it, it's annoying, only when the music stops. If you're listening to a quiet passage or momentary pause in the music it might be an issue. Thankfully my HD600's or HE-500's have no such problems with the Vali. I think my over ear Momentums are more sensitive than the HD558's as I remember the noise being more noticable with these. Neither of these two cans need much in the way of amplification, so unless you're looking for the tube sound, then I use less sensitive cans. I have more amps than I need anyway.


----------



## Rossliew

No sound even with the LCD-XC.


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> I just plugged in a pair of HD558's and the noise is there, not a whopping amount but once you know it, it's annoying, only when the music stops. If you're listening to a quiet passage or momentary pause in the music it might be an issue. Thankfully my HD600's or HE-500's have no such problems with the Vali. I think my over ear Momentums are more sensitive than the HD558's as I remember the noise being more noticable with these. Neither of these two cans need much in the way of amplification, so unless you're looking for the tube sound, then I use less sensitive cans. I have more amps than I need anyway.


 
 How do you like he-500 with Vali? Do you think that modi/vali can drive he-500 to a justifiable level (in term of reaching he-500 potentials)?


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> How do you like he-500 with Vali? Do you think that modi/vali can drive he-500 to a justifiable level (in term of reaching he-500 potentials)?


 
 You can get something decent out of the Vali when driving the HE-500's but more power would be advisable. The Magni or Asgard 2 are perfect. The story about the Magni being too bright is a myth as far as I'm concerned. I A/B'd the Magni and Asgard 2 with a switch and matched volume levels and found this to be just another Internet myth. If you want a tube Amp that sounds good driving the HE-500's you will probably have to spend much more. Either a hybrid with more power than the Vali (such as a Lyr) or a pure tube amp that has an output transformer.


----------



## fenderf4i

Stan is right, the Magni brightness BS is just that.


----------



## imackler

fenderf4i said:


> Stan is right, the Magni brightness BS is just that.


 
  
 I wouldn't say its bright. I'd say its mids are recessed in comparison to the bass and treble.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Stan is right, the Magni brightness BS is just that.


 
 Isn't it strange that someone blurts out something and once the mob takes over it develops a life of its own. I picked up a Magni for my wife and compared it first with my other Amps. If the myth was true, I would have sent it back, IMO a low impedance output amp with plenty of power and a flat FR is not going to be bright unless one imagines it to be so.


----------



## imackler

stand said:


> and a flat FR is not going to be bright unless one imagines it to be so.


 
  
 Do you mean subjectively flat or objectively? Have you seen a graph published? I'd be curious to take a look...


----------



## AnalogSavior

fenderf4i said:


> Stan is right, the Magni brightness BS is just that.


 
  
 I only compared Magni side by side to Vali, and I can say with at some confidence that it is_ brighter_ than Vali.  But bright in general...probably not. I've listened to a lot more amps since then, so I'd have to give one another listen.


----------



## StanD

imackler said:


> Do you mean subjectively flat or objectively? Have you seen a graph published? I'd be curious to take a look...


 
 How about absolutely?
 Frequency Response: *20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db*, 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB
 That is their specification for the Magni. Amps do not have acoustic issues as headphones do, it is very easy to deliver a flat FR with an amp. IMO far too many people that do not understand this needlessly give life to some stories,


----------



## imackler

stand said:


> ...IMO far too many people that do not understand this needlessly give life to some stories,


 
  
 Glad were allowed to our own opinions!


----------



## StanD

analogsavior said:


> I only compared Magni side by side to Vali, and I can say with at some confidence that it is_ brighter_ than Vali.  But bright in general...probably not. I've listened to a lot more amps since then, so I'd have to give one another listen.


 
 I compared them with a switch, so the comaprisons were immediate. As expected, until I matched volumes, they did no sound the same. My comparison was between the Magni and Asgard 2. It is possible that you percieved a difference because the Vali is a tube hybrid and creates even harmonic distortion which can be tricking one's ears. I'll compare the Magni to a Vali in the next couple of days, I expect the same resutls as they both have a rather flat FR.
  

```
Vali: Frequency Response:[b] [/b][b]20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db[/b], 5Hz-100KHz, -3dB Magni: Frequency Response: [b]20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db[/b], 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB
```


----------



## StanD

imackler said:


> Glad were allowed to our own opinions!


 
 I never said otherwise and wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## AnalogSavior

stand said:


> I compared them with a switch, so the comaprisons were immediate. As expected, until I matched volumes, they did no sound the same. My comparison was between the Magni and Asgard 2. It* is possible that you percieved a difference because the Vali is a tube hybrid and creates even harmonic distortion which can be tricking one's ears.* I'll compare the Magni to a Vali in the next couple of days, I expect the same resutls as they both have a rather flat FR.


 
  
 This essentially what I thought was causing the difference in sound when I compared them.  I did this several months ago, before I bought my Vali, but I distinctly remember Magni being a little brighter.  If I could do a blind comparison now, I'd definitely try it (for science!) but since I can't, I'm curious to see what you comparison finds.


----------



## fenderf4i

I also only do my comparisons with a switch. Until I did that, I thought there was a big difference as well.


----------



## StanD

analogsavior said:


> This essentially what I thought was causing the difference in sound when I compared them.  I did this several months ago, before I bought my Vali, but I distinctly remember Magni being a little brighter.  If I could do a blind comparison now, I'd definitely try it (for science!) but since I can't, I'm curious to see what you comparison finds.


 
 Stay tuned, the weekend is upon us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have good ears, I used to modify Analog Electronic Music Synthesizers for recording artists, I was able to correct any errors of intonation in VCOs because I am able to hear harmonics and phase differences and modify them accordingly, plus I'm an EE which helps with the circuit mods,


----------



## imackler

fenderf4i said:


> I also only do my comparisons with a switch. Until I did that, I thought there was a big difference as well.


 
 Can you hear differences between the Asgard 2 and Vali? I'd love to hear your impressions between the two! I'm looking for something with more weight to the mids than the Magni.


----------



## AnalogSavior

fenderf4i said:


> I also only do my comparisons with a switch. Until I did that, I thought there was a big difference as well.


 
  
 Once I started auditioning things and going to meets, I learned that the big differences that are often claimed are rarely there in reality. However, I would definitely expect at least some difference even if only on critical listening.


----------



## prsut

Tubes changed, tubes damping changed. Previously I used 15 Ohm resistor with my denons to dampen slight almost inaudible hiss.
  
 Now I do not need resistor, ringing is dampened very quickly : 1-3 seconds. Seems like my tubes are from very good batch. Seek forum for my source.
 So better than 100 words, here are some photos.
  
 BEFORE


  
 AFTER


----------



## K.T.

I never thought my Magni was bright. As far as I can tell, the Magni's treble is more or less is well matched with the rest of its frequency spectrum.
  
 The reason I think Vali is a better sounding amp, however, is that it breathes more - there's more of an easy, natural flow in micro dynamics and rhythmic lines.
  
 By comparison, the Magni sounds stiffer, less supple, and more harmonically homogenous. The sound is flatter (in terms of color, not freq. response) and reigned in. Maybe it also lacks a sense of shimmer and atmosphere in the sound.
  
 I would say music through the Vali is more moving and has more life.
  
 Of course, that's not to say the Magni is a bad amp. It's a very good choice for the price, and it has its own strengths. 
  
It's just the Vali does those things above so much better.
  
 I also love the sound of the Asgard 2. It's a different animal than the Vali, but produces it's own magic with the right phones.


----------



## StanD

k.t. said:


> I never thought my Magni was bright. As far as I can tell, the Magni's treble is more or less is well matched with the rest of its frequency spectrum.
> 
> The reason I think Vali is a better sounding amp, however, is that it breathes more - there's more of an easy, natural flow in micro dynamics and rhythmic lines.
> 
> ...


 
 As it happens the Magni and Asgard 2 sound very much alike. They are both SS amps and share the same clean sound. If one drives them both from the same source at the same volume and A/B switches a set of headhones between them, they will not be able to tell the difference. This has been done.
 You appear to prefer the coloration that tube amps provide. Some prefer this others do not and prefer an accurate playback of what was recorded.. I do not agree with the remarks about "less suple or more harmonically homogenous," etc. This boils down to a matter of taste. I can listen to both, but prefer SS. The more expensive tube amps have less distortion and thus less of the "warm sound" and begin to sound more like an SS amp The distortion advantages of tubes when it comes to soft clipping are for guitarists, audiophiles on the other hand do not want any clipping, at all.
 Much of the bias against SS amps are from decades ago when they first appeared where many were of a terrible Class B design which not only were riff with cross-over distortion but were underpowered and clipped miserably. Many were not even biased properly and as a result had other nonlinear disorders. That was in the distant past. Today the story is very different.


----------



## K.T.

stand said:


> As it happens the Magni and Asgard 2 sound very much alike. They are both SS amps and share the same clean sound. If one drives them both from the same source at the same volume and A/B switches a set of headhones between them, they will not be able to tell the difference. This has been done.
> You appear to prefer the coloration that tube amps provide. Some prefer this others do not and prefer an accurate playback of what was recorded.. I do not agree with the remarks about "less suple or more harmonically homogenous," etc. This boils down to a matter of taste. I can listen to both, but prefer SS. The more expensive tube amps have less distortion and thus less of the "warm sound" and begin to sound more like an SS amp The distortion advantages of tubes when it comes to soft clipping are for guitarists, audiophiles on the other hand do not want any clipping, at all.
> Much of the bias against SS amps are from decades ago when they first appeared where many were of a terrible Class B design which not only were riff with cross-over distortion but were underpowered and clipped miserably. Many were not even biased properly and as a result had other nonlinear disorders. That was in the distant past. Today the story is very different.




Yes, I do like tubes when they're done right, no doubt. But I also like good solid state.

I have a different experience with the Magni and Asgard 2. I have both, and I've never preferred the performance of the Magni to the Asgard 2. The A2 has always been significantly more musical to my ears.

Granted, I didn't match volume, but I did use the same sources (line out from FiiO X3, HTC One phone running Neutron Player, USB from computer to Modi, USB from computer to AQ Dragonfly 1.2) and the same range of phones (HE-400, HE-500, HD600, HD598, HD580, Q701, K612, K550, K545, K501, PSB M4U1, DT880, DT770 and a bunch of others). I simply turned the volume to a comfortable listening level, which tends to be more or less the same each time I listen. My preference for the Asgard 2 over the Magni wasn't gleaned from a critical shoot out type listening scenario, but from regular listening with the two amps over many months. I simply think the Asgard 2 has a sound that's of a much higher quality than the Magni.

That's not to say your impressions are not also correct. Folks have very different preferences, and those are right, too. Funny how they can be vastly different from what another may like. But you choose what brings you pleasure, and that's what it's all about.

So I'm just sharing what I'm hearing, and how these amps play out for me. Yes, all those things I described are things I hear. They're also the reasons I like the Vali over the Magni. 

Incidentally, if I were to choose one amp out of the 3, my dollar would go to the Asgard 2. I've described the A2 in the past as smooth, controlled, with a hint of warmth. A very composed sound with nothing out of place. Definitely different than the Vali, but pretty great. To my ears, the Magni is the least of these three amps.

Lucky for us, we have some great choices. Three different amps, and chances are one or more will float your boat.


----------



## StanD

k.t. said:


> Yes, I do like tubes when they're done right, no doubt. But I also like good solid state.
> 
> I have a different experience with the Magni and Asgard 2. I have both, and I've never preferred the performance of the Magni to the Asgard 2. The A2 has always been significantly more musical to my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 We don't percieve frequencies equally at different volumes, that's why it is essential to match volumes when comparing amps. Look up Fletcher-Munson Loudness Curves, pretty interesting. All in all, I do prefer the Asgard 2 as well, partially on principle of the design being discrete without using negative feedback to control distortion but rather by careful design. Plus it sounds awfully good.


----------



## rudeboybass

k.t. said:


> stand said:
> 
> 
> > As it happens the Magni and Asgard 2 sound very much alike. They are both SS amps and share the same clean sound. If one drives them both from the same source at the same volume and A/B switches a set of headhones between them, they will not be able to tell the difference. This has been done.
> ...





Same impressions here asgard2>vali>magni


----------



## lostinthesauce

prsut said:


> Tubes changed, tubes damping changed. Previously I used 15 Ohm resistor with my denons to dampen slight almost inaudible hiss.
> 
> Now I do not need resistor, ringing is dampened very quickly : 1-3 seconds. Seems like my tubes are from very good batch. Seek forum for my source.
> So better than 100 words, here are some photos.
> ...


 
 Just out of curiosity, did you try to physically separate the tubes from the board with short leads before settling on your current design?


----------



## prsut

-Old tubes are desoldered
 -new 5 pin conn soldered for each tube (for future)
 -2x3mm sorbothane strips placed
 -new tubes placed comfortably on sorbothane
 -tubes soldered to connectors
  
 open second image in new window for detailed view.


----------



## tehsprayer

Does the type of RCA affect the sound? I am using just random silver-plated ones that I found laying around. Should I invest a couple bucks and get better ones from like monoprice? I am from Canada, that's all.


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> You can get something decent out of the Vali when driving the HE-500's but more power would be advisable. The Magni or Asgard 2 are perfect. The story about the Magni being too bright is a myth as far as I'm concerned. I A/B'd the Magni and Asgard 2 with a switch and matched volume levels and found this to be just another Internet myth. If you want a tube Amp that sounds good driving the HE-500's you will probably have to spend much more. Either a hybrid with more power than the Vali (such as a Lyr) or a pure tube amp that has an output transformer.


 
 thanks
 So I think, I need to go to dt880 and hope that it doesn't have piercing treble for my musics.
 In future, I will build another setup, around he560.


----------



## Defiant00

tehsprayer said:


> Does the type of RCA affect the sound? I am using just random silver-plated ones that I found laying around. Should I invest a couple bucks and get better ones from like monoprice? I am from Canada, that's all.


 
  
 Unless you're getting static, the sound cutting out or some other actual issue with your current cable, you likely won't notice any difference.


----------



## gyzimaki

I enjoy the Vali for its sweet signature with the LCD-X, but miss the detail, air, and soundstage of the Mjolnir. If Schiit could combine the best character of each, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. A tube Mjolnir? Probably not. The Lyr is due for an update, but maybe we have to wait for the tube statement amp. Until then, I'm happy enough switching between the Vali and the Mjolnir.If the recording's a little murky and congested, Mjolnir would clean it up nicely. Does anyone else think the Vali adds a touch of reverb?


----------



## StanD

gyzimaki said:


> I enjoy the Vali for its sweet signature with the LCD-X, but miss the detail, air, and soundstage of the Mjolnir. If Schiit could combine the best character of each, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. A tube Mjolnir? Probably not. The Lyr is due for an update, but maybe we have to wait for the tube statement amp. Until then, I'm happy enough switching between the Vali and the Mjolnir.If the recording's a little murky and congested, Mjolnir would clean it up nicely. Does anyone else think the Vali adds a touch of reverb?


 
 No straight amp can add reverb. That would be a sound effect that audiophiles would not appreciate.


----------



## rudeboybass

Id say it ads a little sweet distortion if anything


----------



## cddc

stand said:


> Stay tuned, the weekend is upon us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Sounds cool...


----------



## Billheiser

Ringing: I got my second Vali recently. I was curious if the amount of tube ringing would be different from the one I bought 2 or 3 months ago. But no: about the same amount, roughly the same sensitivity to tapping or plugging in, and about the same duration (about 30 seconds). FYI FWIW.


----------



## TwinACStacks

prsut said:


> -Old tubes are desoldered
> -new 5 pin conn soldered for each tube (for future)
> -2x3mm sorbothane strips placed
> -new tubes placed comfortably on sorbothane
> ...


 

 I really don't quite understand modding this amp. The tubes are good for 10-20K hours, and it is far more work to install a conn or socket than it is to desolder then resolder the tubes once they have burned out. Maybe I'm missing something but 10,000 hours is a LONG time. Around a year and a third Straight. (416.7 Days) Do you guys LIVE with your headphones on?
  








 TWIN


----------



## Barry S

gyzimaki said:


> I enjoy the Vali for its sweet signature with the LCD-X, but miss the detail, air, and soundstage of the Mjolnir. If Schiit could combine the best character of each, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. A tube Mjolnir? Probably not. The Lyr is due for an update, but maybe we have to wait for the tube statement amp. Until then, I'm happy enough switching between the Vali and the Mjolnir.If the recording's a little murky and congested, Mjolnir would clean it up nicely. Does anyone else think the Vali adds a touch of reverb?


 

 Agree completely with you on the Vali vs. the Mjolnir for the LCD-X. I sold my Mjolnir because I ultimately felt it was too lean with the LCD-X after hearing some more neutral amps. I'll probably try the Ragnarok, since early impressions suggest it's more neutral than the Mjolnir. The Vali is good for now.


----------



## UmustBKidn

stand said:


> How about absolutely?
> Frequency Response: *20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db*, 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB
> That is their specification for the Magni. Amps do not have acoustic issues as headphones do, it is very easy to deliver a flat FR with an amp. IMO far too many people that do not understand this needlessly give life to some stories,


 
  
 Agree. I've had my Magni for about a year now. To me it seems perfectly flat, powerful, and clean.
  
 For my thoughts on comparisons to tube/ss hybrids, you can read this review.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Well guys, after over a month with it I officially love the Vali. Matter of fact I'm pretty much gushing all over it in my video review


----------



## sling5s

Nice review.  I guess I would add the word lively and energetic to your description of aggressive.  I found it does pair well with LCD-2 which can sound slow and think.  It doesn't have all the power it needs but it more than makes it up with it's "aggressive nature".  It some how thins out the thickness and separates the wall of sound with nice detail and separation.  
  
 Quote:


digitalfreak said:


> Well guys, after over a month with it I officially love the Vali. Matter of fact I'm pretty much gushing all over it in my video review


----------



## Head1Case

With the risk of coming late to the party, how does the Vali compare to the Magni?


----------



## Insidious Meme

digitalfreak said:


> Well guys, after over a month with it I officially love the Vali. Matter of fact I'm pretty much gushing all over it in my video review




I thought they didn't allow that stuff on youtube. 

Anyway, this will probably be on my radar now that I'm looking at higher end headphones. Thanks for the review.


----------



## Billheiser

(Reply to:   With the risk of coming late to the party, how does the Vali compare to the Magni?)
  
 Vali a little warmer than Magni.  Thus a little more preferable to some (including me).  Vali is made for high impedance headphones, and is not for all headphones (too much noise for IEM's and for some efficient and low impedance headphones).  Magni more powerful for those headphones that need it, and there's no noise/hiss whatsoever.
 Soundwise, they're both good.  I have a preference for V but still like and am impressed with the M.


----------



## sling5s

sling5s said:


>


 
 True, the Vali is Grado like in a good way.  Not that it's bright but it's has a very upfront and musical sound.


----------



## tdockweiler

Wow, Vali aggressive and Grado like? I can't agree with that at all and if I heard this I would have gotten rid of it for that reason alone.
 That's more like the Magni (yet that's still fairly neutral). That type of sound signature doesn't go well with the Q701.
  
 Maybe it's rather just your songs, DAC or headphone?
  
 I'll agree that the Q701 is a great match for the Vali. Vali and my favorite Q701 amp (that originally cost $350) sounded almost identical. Vali was just a thinner.
  
 With the Q701, the Vali sounded like a much fuller sounding O2 without any of the annoying treble.
  
 Vali sounded basically transparent with the Q701.
  
 This was with the Modi and Micro DAC.


----------



## sling5s

tdockweiler said:


> Wow, Vali aggressive and Grado like? I can't agree with that at all and if I heard this I would have gotten rid of it for that reason alone.
> That's more like the Magni (yet that's still fairly neutral). That type of sound signature doesn't go well with the Q701.
> 
> Maybe it's rather just your songs, DAC or headphone?
> ...


 
 Let me qualify that.  Don't mean to offend.  I've had all Grado cans with all kinds of amps with them.  I currently have a Grado Magnum.  
 Now, what I mean that the Vali is Grado like, is that, while not being bright or harsh or tilted in the upper midrange and lower treble, the Vali brings out the details like you're on stage or the front row rather than sitting in mid row or back of the concert hall.  This is is what I meant by Grado like.  It's presents music in a very immediate, up close way rather than far away.  Hope that helps.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I think its safe to say that the Vali with its slightly pulled forward mids presents the details as more in your face while a more linear amp wouldn't. I consider this amp a good amp for rockers and metal heads by the way.


----------



## fenderf4i

digitalfreak said:


> I think its safe to say that the Vali with its slightly pulled forward mids presents the details as more in your face while a more linear amp wouldn't. I consider this amp a good amp for rockers and metal heads by the way.





How does it have pulled forward mids, when they state in the specs that it has a -0.2 dB frequency response from 20hz-20khz?


----------



## DigitalFreak

fenderf4i said:


> How does it have pulled forward mids, when they state in the specs that it has a -0.2 dB frequency response from 20hz-20khz?


 

 (shrugs)
 Don't ask me to explain it all I know is to my ears the mids sound slightly forward meaning they don't sound linear from the lower mids to the upper mids. It's not forward like a Grado can but there is a slight lift in those mids. Like everything else in this hobby your mileage may vary my friend.
  
 P.S.
  
 My Bombers are gonna kill your Roughriders at the next Banjo Bowl. See you at the pregame keg party.


----------



## grumpy1471

I have a quick question for any other Vali users. Does the Vali heat up a LOT for you? Mine seems to get hot to the point in which I can't touch the top of it for more than a few seconds. The amount of heat is quite worrying to me as the Vali is my first tube amp (first amp of any kind for that matter).


----------



## potterpastor

Yes, mine definitely heats up. But I'm not worried about it.


----------



## PapaSmurf6768

Yup, mine gets really hot too. But definitely not worried about it, seems pretty normal.


----------



## hodgjy

Tubes get hot because it's normal.  They have a heater to emit electrons.  No worries, play away!


----------



## jimmers

hodgjy said:


> Tubes get hot because it's normal.  They have a heater to emit electrons.  No worries, play away!


 

 I thought Jason said it was the SS output stage than generated the heat.


----------



## hodgjy

jimmers said:


> I thought Jason said it was the SS output stage than generated the heat.


 
  
 Could be.  He would know!


----------



## fenderf4i

Yes, the pencil tubes don't put off heat.


----------



## Billheiser

I have 2 Vali's and they get nicely warm - not hot. Can warm up my hand but can't burn it.


----------



## HPiper

Quick question, has anybody tried this with an Audeze LCD2.2 headphone? Does it work and if so how well? I am setting up a bedroom listening station and I am trying to get something that is going to sound good without breaking the bank. I was thinking of an Asgard 2, but then I saw someone mention the Vali on another thread and I thought...hmmm, why not if it will work.


----------



## sling5s

hpiper said:


> Quick question, has anybody tried this with an Audeze LCD2.2 headphone? Does it work and if so how well? I am setting up a bedroom listening station and I am trying to get something that is going to sound good without breaking the bank. I was thinking of an Asgard 2, but then I saw someone mention the Vali on another thread and I thought...hmmm, why not if it will work.


 
 I've like the LCD-2 with the Vali.  They lack the power, dynamics, headroom and bass slam of the Lyr but they make it up in being more engaging, energetic, lively and detailed.


----------



## fenderf4i

Yeah it's pretty decent with the LCD's. If I'm taking my LCD's to a friends house, I take the Vali along as a semi-portable amp (as in, it's small and easy to transport) to power them.


----------



## x838nwy

I never thought I'd post a photo of a pile of my Schitt on the internet, but here's my tribute to an awesome little amp.
  
 That's a Modi USB connected to my MBP, the Modi Optical to my Airport Express, both going into a SYS to select between the two. Feeding into the Vali, then to my head via K702 Annies.
  
 Pretty awesome to be able to listen to music from either my iPhone (airplay) or my mbp. There are probably cheaper solutions, but hey, will do look this cute?


----------



## Rem0o

I wasn't prepared for that.


----------



## UmustBKidn

x838nwy said:


> I never thought I'd post a photo of a pile of my Schitt on the internet, but here's my tribute to an awesome little amp.
> 
> That's a Modi USB connected to my MBP, the Modi Optical to my Airport Express, both going into a SYS to select between the two. Feeding into the Vali, then to my head via K702 Annies.
> 
> Pretty awesome to be able to listen to music from either my iPhone (airplay) or my mbp. There are probably cheaper solutions, but hey, will do look this cute?


 
  
 I didn't know they stacked Schiit that high.


----------



## U6astik

*deleted


----------



## Billheiser

Schiit website says 6.5 (6 point 5) ohms.


----------



## thomascrown

*already posted


----------



## U6astik

Sorry, have taken the impedance from Valhalla


----------



## Billheiser

However, the Valhalla (not Vali) is indeed 30 ohms. 
(Edit: sorry, u already saw that)


----------



## henryxiao

That seems very interesting !


----------



## StanD

Man, I didnt know that they piled Schiit that high.


----------



## cddc

x838nwy said:


> I never thought I'd post a photo of a pile of my Schitt on the internet, but here's my tribute to an awesome little amp.
> 
> That's a Modi USB connected to my MBP, the Modi Optical to my Airport Express, both going into a SYS to select between the two. Feeding into the Vali, then to my head via K702 Annies.
> 
> Pretty awesome to be able to listen to music from either my iPhone (airplay) or my mbp. There are probably cheaper solutions, but hey, will do look this cute?


 
  
  
 Nice stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Mine only has half of your height


----------



## x838nwy

cddc said:


> Nice stack
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 They kindda keep piling up. Happiliy I will not be listening to DSD, otherwise I'll have the Loki in there too!


----------



## Kozic

Hi all
Quick question how is the vali and HE-400,HE-500 together?


----------



## rudeboybass

kozic said:


> Hi all
> Quick question how is the vali and HE-400,HE-500 together?



I can only comment on the he400, it sounds amazing!!! It warms things up nicely. Opposed to my asg 2 which is a more clinical and more of a dark background with tighter, more translucent bass.


----------



## K.T.

kozic said:


> Hi all
> Quick question how is the vali and HE-400,HE-500 together?


 
  
 To my ears, the HE-400 is surprisingly good with the Vali. A nice match.
  
 I think the HE-500 needs more power that what the Vali can provide to sound its best, though.
  
 To my ears, the HE-500 sounds fantastic with the Asgard 2.
  
 However, I think the HE-400 sound too prominent in the treble with the Asgard 2.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

I already have the Magni and have been using it with the HE-400 for a few weeks now, almost 8 hours a day. They are a good match. I'll be getting the Vali shortly, so I will share what I think about the Vali paired the HE-400's if it's an even better match? Stay tuned.


----------



## StanD

hi-fi'er said:


> I already have the Magni and have been using it with the HE-400 for a few weeks now, almost 8 hours a day. They are a good match. I'll be getting the Vali shortly, so I will share what I think about the Vali paired the HE-400's if it's an even better match? Stay tuned.


 
 I just compared a Vali and Magni using an A/B switch, matching the volume with an HE-500. They sounded the same.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

Interesting. From all i've read the Vali is supposed to sound different somewhat and match better with the HE-400.


----------



## StanD

hi-fi'er said:


> Interesting. From all i've read the Vali is supposed to sound different somewhat and match better with the HE-400.


 
 Human beings are not very good at auditory memory, one has to do an immediate comparison under the right conditions and then our ears reveal interesting things. A simple A/B switch is cheap to put together and shouldn't cost a fortune to buy complete. Doing this should be eye opening, highly recommended, but you must carefully match the volume. If you mismatch the volume of both amps, one will sound better, which can explain why some people come to certain conclusions. Flipping the switch back and forth is an amazing experience.


----------



## fenderf4i

When I compared my Vali with my Asgard 2 using a switch, they also sounded the same.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> When I compared my Vali with my Asgard 2 using a switch, they also sounded the same.


 
 I also compared my Magni with the Asgards 2 and they sounded the same. Well there goes the theory that the Magni is bright sounding. That A/B switch is worth its weight in gold. The morale of the story is that unless your driving an unusual headphone, like a power hungry HE-6, most amps do a great job. Yes of course there are some turkeys out there, but there are more great sounding amps than many of us realize or are willing to admit. If the amp can drive the load, chances are it's going to sound A OK. Yes, turkeys need not apply.


----------



## fenderf4i

The thing that blew my mind, is that I thought the Vali was warm and all that stuff, then I compared them directly, and couldn't tell the difference. When you know you have experienced expectation bias, it changes the way you look at things.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> The thing that blew my mind, is that I thought the Vali was warm and all that stuff, then I compared then directly, and couldn't tell the difference. When you know you have experienced expectation bias, it changes the way you look at things.


 
 +1000


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> Human beings are not very good at auditory memory, one has to do an immediate comparison under the right conditions and then our ears reveal interesting things. A simple A/B switch is cheap to put together and shouldn't cost a fortune to buy complete. Doing this should be eye opening, highly recommended, but you must carefully match the volume. If you mismatch the volume of both amps, one will sound better, which can explain why some people come to certain conclusions. Flipping the switch back and forth is an amazing experience.


 
 could you suggest an A/B switch with decent quality and low price? do I need to buy two 3.5 cable too?


----------



## x838nwy

heart banger-97 said:


> could you suggest an A/B switch with decent quality and low price? do I need to buy two 3.5 cable too?


 
  
 If you're using RCA's you can use Schiit's SYS. It's a passive preamp and source selector. It costs $49. If your sources only use mini jacks, you can buy an adaptor for like $2 or something.


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> could you suggest an A/B switch with decent quality and low price? do I need to buy two 3.5 cable too?


 
 I bought a small metal box, a DPDT switch and three 6.35mm jacks (panel mount) and built one. Actually I added 3.5mm jacks as well, to cover all bases. I was able to buy the materials over the counter at Radio Shack for around $20 (that's with both sizes of jacks). If I bought the materials online from a parts supplier it would have cost less.
 I used short interconnects of I believe 22 guage wire to connect to my amps. In the past, I've seen a box by I think SES on Amazon that has only 3.5mm jacks.
 If possible, I think anyone interested in Audio should try doing this.


----------



## StanD

x838nwy said:


> If you're using RCA's you can use Schiit's SYS. It's a passive preamp and source selector. It costs $49. If your sources only use mini jacks, you can buy an adaptor for like $2 or something.


 
 Just make sure the wire is a heavier guage as most RCA cables are designed for carrying signals not power. It probably doesn't make too much difference if the interconnects are short.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

stand said:


> I just compared a Vali and Magni using an A/B switch, matching the volume with an HE-500. They sounded the same.


 
 That's depressing to read. I don't know why they would even bother with creating and marketing a less powered noisier amp than the Magni that is less flexible in what it can handle. You can say it's about making money I guess and admitting it's an inferior amp compared to the Magni. It makes sense when you read what it says off their site. "But it's less powerful and noisier than Magni! A: Dude, it's a $119 tube amp. So, well, yes."


----------



## jexby

hi-fi'er said:


> That's depressing to read. I don't know why they would even bother with creating and marketing a less powered noisier amp than the Magni that is less flexible in what it can handle. You can say it's about making money I guess.


 
  
 I agree-  it's not in Schiit's nature to *intentionally* create new products to duplicate it's product line, NOR fool the consumer.
  
 so I took the above "statement" with a huge dose of salt-
 one can say it depends what DAC was used to feed the amps, or what source material was listened to, or what headphones were (or were not) used for the comparative listening.
  
 not having owned the magni, but loving the Vali with HD600.


----------



## sling5s

It's hard to switch back and forth and A/B two amps or even headphones unless they have drastically different sound signatures.  You have to give your ear/brain time to learn the amp or dac or headphone's musical presentation.  That takes time.  Once your brain becomes familiar with the amp or dac or headphone, than it's able to distinguish the subtle differences.  
  
 For example, many Grado 60i owners when they first upgrade and listen to their new Grado RS1i will complain that they can't hear the difference and that they sound the same.  But after spending time listening with the Grado RS1i for couple of weeks, they are more than able to tell that drastic difference between the 60i and RS1i.  
  
 So unless you've spent at least a week with a gear, you won't be able to accurately and critically make good judgements. 
 That's just my Opinion.   Spend couple weeks learning, listening, tasting the Vali and all it's subtle strengths and weaknesses and all it's unique characteristics and than compare it to the Magni.


----------



## StanD

sling5s said:


> It's hard to switch back and forth and A/B two amps or even headphones unless they have drastically different sound signatures.  You have to give your ear/brain time to learn the amp or dac or headphone's musical presentation.  That takes time.  Once your brain becomes familiar with the amp or dac or headphone, than it's able to distinguish the subtle differences.
> 
> For example, many Grado 60i owners when they first upgrade and listen to their new Grado RS1i will complain that they can't hear the difference and that they sound the same.  But after spending time listening with the Grado RS1i for couple of weeks, they are more than able to tell that drastic difference between the 60i and RS1i.
> 
> ...


 
 I and many others do not seem to have any such difficulties. The human brain/nervous system is very good at detecting differences. I have no problem telling the differences between headphones or devices without any learning period. IMO, listening for subtle differences simply takes some time and careful listening. YMMV.


----------



## Makiah S

stand said:


> I and many others do not seem to have any such difficulties. The human brain/nervous system is very good at detecting differences. I have no problem telling the differences between headphones or devices without any learning period. IMO, listening for subtle differences simply takes some time and careful listening. YMMV.


 
 Same here, though I suppose I've learned to listen for the differance [or lack there of] 
  
 non the less, I sold my Vali a while ago but I still recommened the amp like DAILY :3 very glad I got a chance to hear it!


----------



## StanD

mshenay said:


> Same here, though I suppose I've learned to listen for the differance [or lack there of]
> 
> non the less, I sold my Vali a while ago but I still recommened the amp like DAILY :3 very glad I got a chance to hear it!


 
 Other than a little ringing and some noise that lowers its DR, the Vali sounds just as good as the Magni or other amps costing many times its price. If someone owns one and is happy, there's no need to do anything about it, just enjoy it.


----------



## Makiah S

stand said:


> Other than a little ringing and some noise that lowers its DR, the Vali sounds just as good as the Magni or other amps costing many times its price. If someone owns one and is happy, there's no need to do anything about it, just enjoy it.


 
 Well I really enjoyed it with my 600 ohm Beyer, granted it rang a for a minuete when ya started it up, but it sounded best after 30mins to warm up and there was no noise with the higher ohm headphones


----------



## StanD

mshenay said:


> Well I really enjoyed it with my 600 ohm Beyer, granted it rang a for a minuete when ya started it up, but it sounded best after 30mins to warm up and there was no noise with the higher ohm headphones


 
 I didn't find noise to be an issue with either my HD600's or HE-500's. More sensitive cans/IEM's did make the noise plain to hear. Mine doesn't ring as long as a minute, perhaps 1/2 of that and with less sensitive cans it didn't bother me..


----------



## Makiah S

stand said:


> I didn't find noise to be an issue with either my HD600's or HE-500's. More sensitive cans/IEM's did make the noise plain to hear. Mine doesn't ring as long as a minute, perhaps 1/2 of that and with less sensitive cans it didn't bother me..


 
 agree'd the more sensitive cans didn't work well with it, but the higher impedance cans and low sensitivity headphones  work very well! I'm hoping we might see a Vali 2 in the future, for hopefully the same price or at least maybe a $20 up charge, either way I'd love a Vali that would work best with high impedance and low impedance [and high sensitivity] head phones...  for the price of it I have my doubts. 
  
 Either way, big up to the guys at Schiit! Best sounding amp for the money I've heard to date :3


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

mshenay said:


> Well I really enjoyed it with my 600 ohm Beyer, granted it rang a for a minuete when ya started it up, but it sounded best after 30mins to warm up and there was no noise with the higher ohm headphones


 
 Ugh, I don't even have it yet and it already sounds like I won't want to keep it.


----------



## fenderf4i

hi-fi'er said:


> Ugh, I don't even have it yet and it already sounds like I won't want to keep it. :confused_face:




It's a fantastic amp. The point is, the differences between amps are usually very subtle.


----------



## StanD

hi-fi'er said:


> Ugh, I don't even have it yet and it already sounds like I won't want to keep it.


 
 To be honest., given the choice between the Vali and Magni, I go with the Magni. Sorry about that. If its on the way, try it.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

stand said:


> To be honest., given the choice between the Vali and Magni, I go with the Magni. Sorry about that. If its on the way, try it.


 
 I'll give it a chance. I guess I bought into the hype.


----------



## morph2k4

stand said:


> I just compared a Vali and Magni using an A/B switch, matching the volume with an HE-500. They sounded the same.


 
  
 I did the same thing for a couple of minutes with an A/B box.  They were almost identical, but I did notice an audible difference in snare drums.  They were definitively less "sharp" on the vali, which may be better for some folks.  Might be less fatiguing for longer sessions.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

morph2k4 said:


> I did the same thing for a couple of minutes with an A/B box.  They were almost identical, but I did notice an audible difference in snare drums.  They were definitively less "sharp" on the vali, which may be better for some folks.  Might be less fatiguing for longer sessions.


 
 Ha! Then it may have a place among my other amps. Hope it's all it's cracked up to be. I do listen non stop 8 hours so maybe that will be ideal.


----------



## StanD

morph2k4 said:


> I did the same thing for a couple of minutes with an A/B box.  They were almost identical, but I did notice an audible difference in snare drums.  They were definitively less "sharp" on the vali, which may be better for some folks.  Might be less fatiguing for longer sessions.


 
 Mine was the same. Either I got a better set of tubes that handles transients better or perhaps you didn't match the volumes 100% identical. I find that the volumes must be very carefully matched. If you have the time, give it another try.


----------



## ravager

hi-fi'er said:


> I'll give it a chance. I guess I bought into the hype.


Just go back and read the first 10 pages of this thread. No hype. It is a fantastic amp that hits way above the $120 you paid for it.


----------



## xkonfuzed

Hey guys, I have a couple of questions about the Vali. So from reading the forums I noticed that a lot of people like the Vali with the Dt880's (*cough* Mshenay *cough* ), and that's the main reason I want it. BUT, since the Vali has an output impedance of 6.5 ohms I figured it would not be good with low impedence headphones and IEMs. Most of my headphones are under 70 ohms (expect the 880)so my question is, if I get an impedance adapter which evens out the impedance to about 200 ohms,, Will that fix the problem?


----------



## potterpastor

My 18 ohm Sennheiser Momentums and 32 ohm Grado SR 125s sound amazing on the Schiit Vali. Even my $10 60 ohm Koss KTX Pro 1 sounds like a hi-fi headphone with the Vali.

My 50ohm HD 598 sounds great also with this amp.


----------



## xkonfuzed

potterpastor said:


> My 18 ohm Sennheiser Momentums and 32 ohm Grado SR 125s sound amazing on the Schiit Vali. Even my $10 60 ohm Koss KTX Pro 1 sounds like a hi-fi headphone with the Vali.
> 
> My 50ohm HD 598 sounds great also with this amp.



Don't you get any hiss?


----------



## potterpastor

I did when I had the Vali on a low lying TV table, but now I have it up high on a tall entertainment center connected to the back of my HDTV, and I do not get any hiss at all. Not exactly sure why but that's the situation


----------



## xkonfuzed

potterpastor said:


> I did when I had the Vali on a low lying TV table, but now I have it up high on a tall entertainment center connected to the back of my HDTV, and I do not get any hiss at all. Not exactly sure why but that's the situation




Interesting. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## StanD

xkonfuzed said:


> Don't you get any hiss?


 
 If you are getting noise due to the headphone being sensitive you need an LPAD to attenuate the output of the Vali. At what is the position of the volume control of the Vali are you listening at?


----------



## potterpastor

You are welcome. I should say that when I had the hissing sound, I had it with my HD 600 as well as with my Momentum. The hissing and ringing in my ears was independent of the headphone I was using.


----------



## StanD

potterpastor said:


> You are welcome. I should say that when I had the hissing sound, I had it with my HD 600 as well as with my Momentum. The hissing and ringing in my ears was independent of the headphone I was using.


 
 I have the same cans. I could hear noise when using the Momentums but not the HD600's.


----------



## Empty Flower

Hi, I've just got the Vali recently, and I'm new to audiophile equipment. Should I keep my headphones plugged in when turning off the Vali, or should I unplug my headphones first?
  
 Thanks


----------



## RickB

empty flower said:


> Hi, I've just got the Vali recently, and I'm new to audiophile equipment. Should I keep my headphones plugged in when turning off the Vali, or should I unplug my headphones first?
> 
> Thanks


 

 It's safe to keep your headphones plugged in all the time, as the Vali has a mute delay.


----------



## StanD

empty flower said:


> Hi, I've just got the Vali recently, and I'm new to audiophile equipment. Should I keep my headphones plugged in when turning off the Vali, or should I unplug my headphones first?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Doesn't make a difference as the Vali has a delay relay protecting the headphones from on/off transients. You can just leave them plugged in all the time if that suites you.


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> Doesn't make a difference as the Vali has a delay relay protecting the headphones from on/off transients. You can just leave them plugged in all the time if that suites you.


 
  
 Mute delay, delay relay, I knew it was called something like that!


----------



## StanD

rickb said:


> Mute delay, delay relay, I knew it was called something like that!


 
 Either one works for me as long as it's there.


----------



## xkonfuzed

stand said:


> If you are getting noise due to the headphone being sensitive you need an LPAD to attenuate the output of the Vali. At what is the position of the volume control of the Vali are you listening at?



Oh I don't have the Vali, I was just asking because i read many places about the microphonics and hiss problems on it. Right now I'm saving up for either a Vali or some new expensive tubes for my T1.


----------



## StanD

xkonfuzed said:


> Oh I don't have the Vali, I was just asking because i read many places about the microphonics and hiss problems on it. Right now I'm saving up for either a Vali or some new expensive tubes for my T1.


 
 I was of _konfused_.


----------



## helljudgement

xkonfuzed said:


> Oh I don't have the Vali, I was just asking because i read many places about the microphonics and hiss problems on it. Right now I'm saving up for either a Vali or some new expensive tubes for my T1.


 
 I have none of the problems you've mentioned when used with my hd800. There's some ringing when plugged into the unit but it only last for a couple of seconds.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

I've finally had the pleasure to hear the "ringing" that everyone is raving about. With HE-400's and a really good tap you can barley hear the ring. As some has mentioned it's so minimal it's not an issue and I must agree.


----------



## Billheiser

Seems to depend on the unit; some have more and some less.  I have 2 Vali's, bought a couple months apart (wide difference in serial numbers).  Both of them "ting-ing-ing-ing" for about 20 to 30 seconds when plugging in phones, or flipping the switch to "on", or if tapped with a little bit of force.  The ringing is more pronounced with efficient low-impedance headphones (the amp is not designed for them).  But the 30 second ringing is still plenty evident on my 300 ohm Sennheisers.


----------



## UmustBKidn

> Originally Posted by *StanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same thing happens to me when I'm reading Head-Fi, and forget to add mixer to my cup full of whiskey. One big gulp of straight whiskey will get your attention.


----------



## StanD

umustbkidn said:


> Same thing happens to me when I'm reading Head-Fi, and forget to add mixer to my cup full of whiskey. One big gulp of straight whiskey will get your attention.


 
 Be careful, I feed the squirrels in my yard. Only they don't get any booze. The bag of safflower seeds that I use for the birdfeeders states that squirrels don't like the stuff, too bad the squirrels forgot to read the bag. My squirrels have Hybrid BA IEMs and have been putting together a petition for Schiit to make a portable DAP.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

I just don't like how hot it gets even when you have the volume on low. I want to put a fan in it! Seems to get hot even when not driving anything too hard. I have HE-400's and they are low impedance 35 Ohm and Vali gets pretty warm. I know a class A amp should be hot to warm, but this is not a pure class A it's an A/B?!


----------



## RickB

hi-fi'er said:


> I just don't like how hot it gets even when you have the volume on low. I want to put a fan in it! Seems to get hot even when not driving anything too hard. I have HE-400's and they are low impedance 35 Ohm and Vali gets pretty warm. I know a class A amp should be hot to warm, but this is not a pure class A it's an A/B?!


 

 The entire steel case is a heatsink. It'll be fine.


----------



## Hi-Fi'er

rickb said:


> The entire steel case is a heatsink. It'll be fine.


 
 Thank you for your reply. Yes, it seems like the whole case is acting like a heatsink. Just bothers me a tad that even on low power driving levels it gets as warm as on higher volume driving levels. Would think that lower volume levels that it would not be working as hard that's all. Sounds good even so!!


----------



## betula

Coming from IEM's, I have recently purchased my first headphone and amp combo. Schiit Vali paired up with my old dream, the Sennheiser HD600. My DAC is a Fiio X3. These three together just sound amazing. Could not help to share.


----------



## revgrectifier

Can anyone tall me about Vali's internal LED lights? Can you switch them off or take them off the amp in some way?


----------



## Defiant00

revgrectifier said:


> Can anyone tall me about Vali's internal LED lights? Can you switch them off or take them off the amp in some way?


 
  
 They're a functional part of the circuit, not just something for appearance's sake (per Jason somewhere...can't find the post right now) so I don't think there's any easy way to turn them off.


----------



## revgrectifier

defiant00 said:


> They're a functional part of the circuit, not just something for appearance's sake (per Jason somewhere...can't find the post right now) so I don't think there's any easy way to turn them off.


 
 Bummer... I love to listen to music through my headphones in a completely dark room, and while I can put some tape on the front white LED I don't know if putting tape on top of the amp is totally okay


----------



## greenkiwi

revgrectifier said:


> Bummer... I love to listen to music through my headphones in a completely dark room, and while i can put some tape on the from white LED I don't know if putting tape on top of the amp is totally okay


You might be able to put black tape right on the led. Don't know how easy it is to open the case.


----------



## Kozic

revgrectifier said:


> Bummer... I love to listen to music through my headphones in a completely dark room, and while I can put some tape on the front white LED I don't know if putting tape on top of the amp is totally okay


Go pick up some black model paint that should be OK on the led.


----------



## tehsprayer

I just put electrical tape on all my lights. Works great.


----------



## K.T.

defiant00 said:


> They're a functional part of the circuit, not just something for appearance's sake (per Jason somewhere...can't find the post right now) so I don't think there's any easy way to turn them off.




Please correct me if I'm wrong, but. I believe the bright white LED on the front is an indicator light only. It shows you that the amp is on but has no function other than that.

The faintly glowing orange LEDs inside ARE a functional part of the circuit, however (I believe they are biasing LEDs). These cannot be removed.

I was also put off by the bright white LED, as I wanted to use my Vali on my nightstand. So I opened up the case and clipped that front panel LED right out. Had no effect on the functioning of the amp. Now I can actually use the Vali at night in the dark just before I drift off to sleep.

I find that those little orange biasing LEDs inside are bright enough to tell me the amp is on, but faint enough to actually be pleasant in a dark room. Unless I'm looking directly at the amp, I don't even notice the faint orange glow, even in pitch darkness. If you are concerned about using the amp in the dark, these little orange LEDs are not the problem. The front panel LED is.

You can use paint or tape on the bright front LED, but the Vali has a lot of holes where the bright white light can escape, even with the front of the LED fully taped. 

It happens because the LED also illuminates from the back, and fills the inside of the amp with bright light. It leaks out into the room through the vent holes on top and from the gap surrounding the volume knob.

To fully block out all the light from that LED, you'd have to open up the amp and also paint/tape the back side of the LED (to keep it from illuminating the inside and leaking out the holes).

Clipping the LED out did the trick for me. Now my favorite bedside amp.

I have have a second Vali with the front panel LED intact, and can't detect a difference in how they sound.


----------



## Defiant00

k.t. said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but. I believe the bright white LED on the front is an indicator light only. It shows you that the amp is on but has no function other than that.


 
  
 As far as I'm aware that is correct, and only the faint ones inside the amp are a functional part of the circuit.


----------



## betula

Guys, you do not read about the amp, you buy?

 Vali is a hybrid tube amp. Led is only on the front, next to the headphone input. (Indicating, it is switched on.)
 What you see inside as "red leds" those are the micro tubes. Giving you this great sound.
 I wouldn't touch them or paint them. 
 And I wouldn't use tape to cover the holes, as I assume, they are for cooling. 

 If those tiny lights are really bothering you, put something in front of the amp, like a standing, opened book...


----------



## revgrectifier

betula said:


> Guys, you do not read about the amp, you buy?
> 
> Vali is a hybrid tube amp. Led is only on the front, next to the headphone input. (Indicating, it is switched on.)
> What you see inside as "red leds" those are the micro tubes. Giving you this great sound.
> ...


 
 Actually there are LEDs, because, according to Schiit, "Submini tubes running 1.25V heaters don’t really glow, sorry."
 But a further inspection of Vali's page revealed that the LEDs bias the output stage. 
  
 Still, I don't think it will become red hot and melt if i cover the holes so maybe that's the solution.


----------



## revgrectifier

k.t. said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but. I believe the bright white LED on the front is an indicator light only. It shows you that the amp is on but has no function other than that.
> 
> The faintly glowing orange LEDs inside ARE a functional part of the circuit, however (I believe they are biasing LEDs). These cannot be removed.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## betula

Ok. But anyway they are part of the circuit. They have function.
 Just as the holes on the top. They are there probably not for making the Vali Lighter...


----------



## jimmers

betula said:


> Guys, you do not read about the amp, you buy?


 
 Apparently some do not.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






> So I opened up the case and clipped that front panel LED right out. Had no effect on the functioning of the amp. Now I can actually use the Vali at night in the dark just before I drift off to sleep.


 
 I guess you could replace the white LED with a UV one, then you'll only have a faint purple glow and you will be able to see any scorpions that are sneaking about.


----------



## K.T.

jimmers said:


> Apparently some do not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Or fluid stains on your sheets.


----------



## tehsprayer

I am selling my Vali for $95 USD, OBO. Perfect condition. 10/10 sounds great!
  
 Reason I am selling is because I am changing to a lyr.


----------



## Rocker21

Is it normal for the Vali to make headphones make a high pitch ringing sound (not the tinging sound)?
  
 After my headphones have been plugged into the Vali for a few minutes a high pitch ring will start in one ear. The volume of the ringing varies and it will sometimes fade out and stop for a while.
  
 The ringing that I'm talking about is different from the tinging sound that the Vali makes for a few seconds when it turns on.


----------



## tehsprayer

rocker21 said:


> Is it normal for the Vali to make headphones make a high pitch ringing sound (not the tinging sound)?
> 
> After my headphones have been plugged into the Vali for a few minutes a high pitch ring will start in one ear. The volume of the ringing varies and it will sometimes fade out and stop for a while.
> 
> The ringing that I'm talking about is different from the tinging sound that the Vali makes for a few seconds when it turns on.


 
 It should go away within 30 seconds or less from plugging in. Maybe you have a faulty tube that amplifies your one ear. Email info@schiit.com and see what they say.


----------



## Rocker21

tehsprayer said:


> It should go away within 30 seconds or less from plugging in. Maybe you have a faulty tube that amplifies your one ear. Email info@schiit.com and see what they say.


 
 The tinging from when I turn on the Vali does go away after a few seconds but the high pitch ringing starts after around 30 seconds and stays.
  
 I'll definitely email them to see what they say.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## StanD

rocker21 said:


> The tinging from when I turn on the Vali does go away after a few seconds but the high pitch ringing starts after around 30 seconds and stays.
> 
> I'll definitely email them to see what they say.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 That is definitely not normal. I'm certain that they'll make good on it.


----------



## Rossliew

Just got my Bifrost Uber and Magni today...burning them in now with the XC. Sounding decent thus far.


----------



## jbarrentine

If a Vali has a problem, will it manifest as a 'putt putt putt' constant sound through one side of my headphones? I can't think of anything else it might be. Nothing in my setup has changed.


----------



## Billheiser

Putt putt is not normal. Aside from the high pitched "ting-ing" that they have upon turn on and/or physical contact, which lasts 30 seconds (more or less), they're quiet. Putt putt is a different problem, email Schiit to see what they think.


----------



## jbarrentine

...I know putt putt isn't normal, that's why I specifically asked if that's a tube problem manifestation. I've never had anything with tubes before, so I have no knowledge of what a problem would sound like with a tube. 
  
 Anyway, their answer was a series of basic trouble shooting steps that was unnecessary. I've been building computers for 20 years now, it's not my setup (which had not changed anyway).


----------



## Billheiser

jbarrentine said:


> If a Vali has a problem, will it manifest as a 'putt putt putt' constant sound through one side of my headphones? I can't think of anything else it might be. Nothing in my setup has changed.


----------



## K.T.

I had that same situation. After a while of normal operation, a prolonged ringing would develop.

It lasted a little while and didn't go away by rapping on the amp. I turned the amp off and then on again. It went away and hasn't returned. But I experienced something like this at least two separate times.

I'm not sure exactly what caused it, but I kind of think there was some vibrational feedback situation happening. 

Meaning that maybe conditions were just right, with the compliance of the chair cushion the amp was sitting on, the vibration going on in the room and through the floor, and the compliance of the adhesive pads under the tubes, that excited a consistent and prolonged ringing in the tubes. Which is unrelated to the initial ringing that you get during turn on.

I don't know if that's really what's going on, but I can't think of another explanation given the intermittent nature of that prolonged delayed ringing.

Any other ideas?

P.S. - I think that putt putt sound is tube related. I've had some sputtering sounds come from my Cary tube preamp and that was definitely tube related. Sounds like a similar thing. I'd contact Schiit and see what they can do for you as a sputtering amp can mean a faulty tube.


----------



## jbarrentine

I dunno. I turned it off and left it off all night rather than off and back on and it seems fine now (?)
  
 Such is the nature of tubes I guess?
  
 This does make me curious as to what the better solid state amps sound like.


----------



## protocol

Sorry if this has been covered in this thread already.
  
 I'm on the lookout for a desktop amp and dac combo for my DT770 250s. I've heard lots of good things about the Magni and was going to get the Magni and Modi combo until someone in the Magni thread suggested the Vali instead due to my cans. 
  
 I'm a complete audiophile novice and not sure which of the two amps is best suited to my needs for home use (music, gaming, watching movies etc).  There seems to be a lot more reviews and information on the Magni than there does on the Vali however I do know that the Vali uses tubes where as the Magni doesn't. Are tubes better? I also have a pair of Creative Aurvana Live's so an amp that will power both will be ideal. 
  
 Based on what cans I have, and what they'll be used for, which of the two would people recommend? Here in the UK the Vali is slightly more expensive but still within my budget.


----------



## Rossliew

protocol said:


> Sorry if this has been covered in this thread already.
> 
> I'm on the lookout for a desktop amp and dac combo for my DT770 250s. I've heard lots of good things about the Magni and was going to get the Magni and Modi combo until someone in the Magni thread suggested the Vali instead due to my cans.
> 
> ...




The Vali has higher output impedancr and higher voltage drive which is more suitable for high impedance headphones. Having said that, it is also pretty versatile as it can drive most other sensitive low impedance headphones as well. For the money, you could live with it for quite awhile and pair it with other sensitive low impedance headphones you may purchase in future. It also sounds very good without an overly syrupy, tubey kinda sound. Its musical sounding imo.


----------



## UmustBKidn

protocol said:


> Sorry if this has been covered in this thread already.
> 
> I'm on the lookout for a desktop amp and dac combo for my DT770 250s. I've heard lots of good things about the Magni and was going to get the Magni and Modi combo until someone in the Magni thread suggested the Vali instead due to my cans.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a pair of the aforementioned DT770 250's. They are my favorite cans, at least until I can magically afford something better.
  
 My current favorite setup includes driving these with a Schiit Modi into a Bravo V2 (stock) amp, which is equipped with a late 50's vintage square getter Mullard tube. I have recently modified another Bravo V2 and am awaiting sufficient time to compare the modified Bravo against the stock unit (they are in different cities), which will result in yet another comparison. For whatever that's worth.
  
 Preliminary testing indicates the modified Bravo V2 blows the stock unit into the weeds. It is unclear if the modified Bravo V2 is better than a Schiit Vali or not, but others who seem to know, indicate the Vali is superior. With all due respect to Jason and Schiit, I'm withholding judgement until I can compare for myself. I'm just not quite so sure that those little micro tubes out perform the legendary vintage Mullards.
  
 Ideally, one day I shall show up to a meet, with a modified Bravo V2 sporting a square getter Mullard, which I can then compare side by side with a Vali. And other stuffs. I am a test engineer by trade. I don't believe it until I see it. Or hear it.


----------



## amigastar

Has anyone experience with the Vali amp and Hifiman He-500?
 Does it complement each other or should i stay with Matrix M-Stage?


----------



## tin427

amigastar said:


> Has anyone experience with the Vali amp and Hifiman He-500?
> Does it complement each other or should i stay with Matrix M-Stage?


 
 I'm using he560 with the vali. I would just say the sound is okay but feeling the cans need more juice to shine.
  
 I think I'll get a lyr 2 soon to push the he560 to its limit!


----------



## amigastar

tin427 said:


> I'm using he560 with the vali. I would just say the sound is okay but feeling the cans need more juice to shine.
> 
> I think I'll get a lyr 2 soon to push the he560 to its limit!


 
 Oh, thanks for your input. Hmm Lyr 2 looks also good but i wanted the vali because it doesn't cost the world and it's a tube amp.


----------



## Defiant00

amigastar said:


> Oh, thanks for your input. Hmm Lyr 2 looks also good but i wanted the vali because it's so pricey.


 
  
 Alternately, if you want something relatively cheap with more power than the Vali, the Magni has enough power for most orthos.


----------



## Shadohead

Since I already own an aune t1, would it be worth an upgrade to this?


----------



## jamesino

I'm listen to FLACs on my laptop through an HD 650 powered by a Magni/Modi stack. If I swap the Magni for the new Vali, will I noticed an improvement?
  
 I enjoy vocals, will the Vali help bring out the vocals?


----------



## tdockweiler

jamesino said:


> I'm listen to FLACs on my laptop through an HD 650 powered by a Magni/Modi stack. If I swap the Magni for the new Vali, will I noticed an improvement?
> 
> I enjoy vocals, will the Vali help bring out the vocals?


 
  
 For the HD-650 (and my DJ100) I found the vali to be a major downgrade. However for the Q701 I felt the Vali was better. Vali might also go well with something like a DT-880/DT-990.
  
 I guess you could try the Vali out and get rid of the loser.


----------



## Rossliew

Driving my XC with the Vali/Bifrost Uber combo and it sounds very good. Better than the Magni (or perhaps I should say it's a different sound sig). The Vali sounded more rounded and less aggressive as compared to the Magni and it brought a slight warmth/lushness to the sound. Made bass more rounded (some may call it bloated (?) but i've always liked my bass to sound like this)


----------



## betula

jamesino said:


> I'm listen to FLACs on my laptop through an HD 650 powered by a Magni/Modi stack. If I swap the Magni for the new Vali, will I noticed an improvement?
> 
> I enjoy vocals, will the Vali help bring out the vocals?


 
 It is just different, not better or worse. It is about personal preference. I prefer Vali's tube like sound. It goes great with my HD600.


----------



## DJDREEM

After an amp with a warm lush sound for my HD650 will the Vali do?


----------



## betula

djdreem said:


> After an amp with a warm lush sound for my HD650 will the Vali do?


 
 Vali is very enjoyable with my HD600. I have not tried HD650 though...


----------



## DJDREEM

betula said:


> Vali is very enjoyable with my HD600. I have not tried HD650 though...


Sounds good, how would you describe its sound?


----------



## betula

djdreem said:


> Sounds good, how would you describe its sound?


 
  It is very balanced, and clear, well detailed. There is good 'space', and instrument separation. I think, Vali's tubes give a little warmth to the sound. Listening to this combo feels more like you were in a cosy room sitting in an armchair, not in a studio listening to maybe more analytical sounds. If you get, what I mean... It is more 'human like', therefore it is more fun, and more enjoyable. Tubes give a special atmosphere to the music. And I like it.
  However source is important too. From my laptop it does not sound as good as from my Fiio X3. (Still not bad though...) But X3 gives more clarity, a feeling of 'higher quality' sound to the music. 
 And using X3's bass and treble enhancement a little bit adds more fun. I need this extra bass, when I listen to bass heavier music.
 Hope, this helped...


----------



## DigitalFreak

shadohead said:


> Since I already own an aune t1, would it be worth an upgrade to this?




Speaking as an Aune T1 owner, the simple answer is yes. The Vali is a superior sounding amp when compared to the T1s amp section. The T1 is still fun for screwing around with different tubes though if you're into that sort of thing.


----------



## Opus131

I'd be curious to know if this is a good amp to use with the HD 600 using the Fiio X3 as a dac? Might get the Schiit Modi as well, but right now i'm strapped on cash.  
  
 Also, is there a way to buy this in central Europe (i live in Italy, but i'd rather trust a German store then an Italian one, heh)? Buying directly from Schiit would add a considerable shipping charge.


----------



## potterpastor

The Vali and the HD 600 plus my 55 inch smart tv is a great combo. Awesome!

I would assume that the vali and the x3 would also do well with the 600


----------



## Orihalcon

Threads like these are why sites like this are awesome. I was on the fence between the magni and vali for my q701's...but Vali it is!


----------



## thomascrown

opus131 said:


> I'd be curious to know if this is a good amp to use with the HD 600 using the Fiio X3 as a dac? Might get the Schiit Modi as well, but right now i'm strapped on cash.
> 
> Also, is there a way to buy this in central Europe (i live in Italy, but i'd rather trust a German store then an Italian one, heh)? Buying directly from Schiit would add a considerable shipping charge.


 
  
 I love the vali with my hd650 should be good as well with your hd600, the shipping charge to Italy should be around 50$ (insured), indeed it's almost 50% the vali price, but the only european seller I know is in uk and he is charging that difference in the selling price (105 gbp!!) and then you have to also add the shipping. I would rather buy directly from schiit, the euro/dollar change rate is quite positive.


----------



## amigastar

opus131 said:


> I'd be curious to know if this is a good amp to use with the HD 600 using the Fiio X3 as a dac? Might get the Schiit Modi as well, but right now i'm strapped on cash.
> 
> Also, is there a way to buy this in central Europe (i live in Italy, but i'd rather trust a German store then an Italian one, heh)? Buying directly from Schiit would add a considerable shipping charge.


 

 I asked the same question to schiit and they gave me this answer:
 http://schiit.com/faq/international
 no german retailer though


----------



## aqua35

amigastar said:


> I asked the same question to schiit and they gave me this answer:
> http://schiit.com/faq/international
> no german retailer though


 

 In French:
  
 _http://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/ampli-casquepreampli-amplificateur-casque-sedentaire/test-fournisseur-par-defaul-p-8888.html


----------



## Opus131

thomascrown said:


> I love the vali with my hd650 should be good as well with your hd600, the shipping charge to Italy should be around 50$ (insured), indeed it's almost 50% the vali price, but the only european seller I know is in uk and he is charging that difference in the selling price (105 gbp!!) and then you have to also add the shipping. I would rather buy directly from schiit, the euro/dollar change rate is quite positive.


 
  
 Yeah, it seems that in the end the price amounts to the same. Are there any good alternatives that are more easily available in Europe? 
  
 Right now i'm actually eyeing this: 
  
 http://www.amazon.de/Little-Dot-MKII-Kopfh%C3%B6rerverst%C3%A4rker-Verst%C3%A4rker/dp/B00A2QMAI2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1405340005&sr=8-3&keywords=little+dot+amp
  
  
 I'm interested in the tube sound, but i also want something that is durable and reliable. That thing looks like an accident waiting to happen. Plus i'm sure tube rolling and replacement is going to inflate the price a great deal. The other alternative is getting one of those small Bravo amps but i had one of those and it died on my after little more than a year. Bad luck maybe but it didn't seem to be very well constructed to begin with.


----------



## thomascrown

opus131 said:


> Yeah, it seems that in the end the price amounts to the same. Are there any good alternatives that are more easily available in Europe?
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Same, if you want a littledot you should buy straight from the seller (on ebay look for davidzhezhe), Amazon isn't usually the best choice for such products. Shipping fees are more or less the same, anyway never had problems of phone interferences with my vali, can't say the same when I had the mkIII (and humming noises as well), still David is reliable and super kind, can't say anything bad about him


----------



## prsut

opus131 said:


> I'd be curious to know if this is a good amp to use with the HD 600 using the Fiio X3 as a dac? Might get the Schiit Modi as well, but right now i'm strapped on cash.
> 
> 
> Also, is there a way to buy this in central Europe (i live in Italy, but i'd rather trust a German store then an Italian one, heh)? Buying directly from Schiit would add a considerable shipping charge.


 

 http://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/magni-product-2.html


----------



## nolossaudioguy

I've got the Vali amp, HE-400's, a Fiio x-3 and a Little Bear-p-1 chinese tube amp.  In my listening I've come to the conclusion of the following:
 1. The amp in the x-3 is pretty good.  It sounds smooth top to bottom with a decent but not great soundstage presentation.  Things are a little congested but as a portable option it's a pretty good combo and way better than my smartphone.
 2. The Little Bear p-1 is similar to offerings from Bravo, and a few others and is not bad overall compared to the x-3.  The biggest problem is with the highs being rolled off.  I'm not sure what frequency it starts but it is very audible although you do get some high frequency information.  Just based on listening, I would say it starts somewhere between 8-10k.  What you do get with this little amp is a much bigger soundstage.  Instruments are separated nicely with much less of that congestion found in the x-3.  I usually preferred listening to the p-1 over just the x-3.  I've read that there is a mosfet transistor fix for the rolled off highs but I haven't tried that--mine is stock with a GE 5814 tube.  The HE-400's have a peak in the 8-10k region and when I first got them, I thought the p-1 was the perfect match, the p-1 rolling off highs and the HE-400's peaking, but after listening to the Vali(and the x-3 to a lesser extent) there is notable information that is just lost with the p-1.
 3.  The Vali is the best of these with the big soundstage and extended high frequency response.  The soundstage seems to be a little smaller than the p-1 but I'm not sure if that is a result of less high frequency information which makes you pay more attention to the midrange.  In any event, the soundstage is bigger than the x-3.  The sound is very clear but the high frequencies are different on the Vali.  There is more information up there vs the x-3(and way more than the p-1).  I know the x-3's dac somewhat subdues high frequency information.  When I listen to the Vali the highs are more emphasized and i think they are actually different vs the x-3.  I'm not sure if the Vali is adding something but they are somehow sharper.  On some material this is good, it brings out detail... on some other music it can sound harsh.
 The Vali was my latest purchase and it was just about what I thought it would be.  That is, a bigger soundstage(tubey?)(vs the x3) with the high frequencies intact.  I picked the Vali over the Magi because of the tubes and my experience with the p-1's soundstage which I guess I attributed to the tubes.  I haven't listened to the Magi though.
  
 This should be food for thought for some of you that are in a similar position with the HE-400's


----------



## Billheiser

good post.  In my experience with the Vali, the highs seem properly extended and present.  I haven't had any impression that they are sharp or harsh, which would bug me.  It seems mostly NON-tubey to me, in that it's not rolled off in the highs.  Yet it sounds slightly better than the Magni, to me, which had a somewhat sharper sound.


----------



## nolossaudioguy

What headphones are you using?


----------



## betula

opus131 said:


> I'd be curious to know if this is a good amp to use with the HD 600 using the Fiio X3 as a dac? Might get the Schiit Modi as well, but right now i'm strapped on cash.
> 
> Also, is there a way to buy this in central Europe (i live in Italy, but i'd rather trust a German store then an Italian one, heh)? Buying directly from Schiit would add a considerable shipping charge.


 
 I am from Central Europe, but I live in the U.K. for a few years. I was lucky enough to find a few weeks old used Vali on eBay U.K. It was 90 pounds. I suggest, to try different european eBay sites. I own the mentioned combo (Vali, HD600, X3). I am very happy with it.


----------



## betula

betula said:


> I am from Central Europe, but I live in the U.K. for a few years. I was lucky enough to find a few weeks old used Vali on eBay U.K. It was 90 pounds. I suggest, to try different european eBay sites. I own the mentioned combo (Vali, HD600, X3). I am very happy with it.


 
 (X3 on its own is not enough for HD600 in my opinion. It is loud enough, but lack of bass and fullness. It is a great DAC though. For portable use with an IEM, or less impedance headphones. Connecting it to Vali makes a huge difference in sound. Awsome.   )


----------



## kleefurd

I still pity the guys in marketing department.

 Imagine this :

 Customer : I am looking for a Vali Schiit amp.
 Shopkeeper : Go across the street, see those Chinese/Korean crap they make? I only sell high end and good sound amps here. **** amps are not my "specialty".

 See the problem?

 Go hug your nearest Schiit marketing person today.

 Definitely on my must-try-or-buy-if-cannot-try list.


----------



## jbarrentine

Ended up sending my Vali in for service. The left channel would start emitting a high pitched, continuous tone after a few hours. I had a very early unit however. Missing it already.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Just for the record, although I found the highs slightly elevated on the Vali they were quite smooth. With my jergpad HE-400 the highs were quite controlled and I had very minimal sibilance.


----------



## Billheiser

nolossaudioguy said:


> What headphones are you using?



Hd600


----------



## Opus131

Well, after a bit of consideration, i think i'm going to try Audiophonics: 
  
 http://www.audiophonics.fr/
  
 With shipping and tax, the unit is going to come out at a little less than 200 euros. This is QUITE a bit more than the American price, and perhaps even more than buying directly from Schiit (after currency conversion and everything), but i'm weary of the way Italian customs work, since they might add some unexpected fee. What a crappy country i live in. At any rate, i'm assuming that Audiophonics is good for insurance, given that this store is listed on Schiit's own website, right? 
  
 My only reservation is that at 200 euros there might be something better available. Many of the comments here seem centered on the American price, which is indeed amazing. But perhaps there are better options for the European market? The only one i know of is the Bravo amps, which again i'm weary of since my last one didn't last too long (but perhaps i was just unlucky). I even have a Gold Lion ECC82 laying around which i had bought to replace the stock one from my old Bravo. At twice the money, would the Vali really be that much of an upgrade?


----------



## UmustBKidn

opus131 said:


> Yeah, it seems that in the end the price amounts to the same. Are there any good alternatives that are more easily available in Europe?
> 
> Right now i'm actually eyeing this:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bravo amps suffer from a lack of proper cooling. I use a Thermaltake USB fan on both of mine (one is modded), and they've been working just fine for over a year. That being said, by all accounts, the unmodified Bravo amps don't hold a candle to a Schiit Vali. I have not personally tried one (yet), but people whose opinions I respect here have indicated as much. I understand that the Schiit amps are all available with either a 230v UK or Euro plug. So worst case you'd have to place a US order and wait a while.
  
 I also haven't tried the Little Dot amps, but they also seem to have their own following, and some folks really like them.
  
 If I can say one thing to help encourage you to try Schiit - their gear is built like a tank. I have a Magni and a Modi, and they have held up to almost daily use for well over a year. And I have carted my Magni around to at least 3 different locations in that time, run it with and without a DAC, into good and not so good headphones, and it is absolutely the most solid piece of gear I have ever owned.


----------



## Opus131

Heh, just did some calculations. With the highest shipping option, and possibly a custom fee (which can go as high as 20% or 23%), the final price still comes up as less than that of Audiophonics. I think i'm just going get it directly from Schiit. 
  
 On last thing. Would it be worth it to add a Modi to my order? I'm going to use the x3 as a DAC, would the Modi be such an improvement as to warrant another 100 quids?


----------



## Opus131

umustbkidn said:


> That being said, by all accounts, the unmodified Bravo amps don't hold a candle to a Schiit Vali.


 
  
 What about the e12? How much better is the Vali, considering the e12 would be cheaper, easier to buy (sold on any European Amazon) and its portable? Is the difference considerable enough to offset those advantages?


----------



## StanD

opus131 said:


> What about the e12? How much better is the Vali, considering the e12 would be cheaper, easier to buy (sold on any European Amazon) and its portable? Is the difference considerable enough to offset those advantages?



Sounds like an interesting suggestion. The E12 is far better than most people realize.


----------



## zerodeefex

opus131 said:


> umustbkidn said:
> 
> 
> > That being said, by all accounts, the unmodified Bravo amps don't hold a candle to a Schiit Vali.
> ...




What are you driving with it? HD600 or HD800, Vali is a no brainer. More resolving, better instrument separation, better stage. I loved the E12 but its not even in the same ballpark for these two cans.


----------



## Opus131

Ho the hell, Vali it is.  
  
 One very last thing though. I know the unit rings if rattled, though i did not understand the mechanic of it. Does it mean that it could get easily damaged during transportation? According to the Schiit website, i have to pay my own shipping if i need an exchange, which normally wouldn't be a problem but on an international order that's a different thing. 
  
 Ho, and i think i'll just add a mobi too and rely on the x3 only for outdoors listening, heh.


----------



## thomascrown

opus131 said:


> Ho the hell, Vali it is.
> 
> One very last thing though. I know the unit rings if rattled, though i did not understand the mechanic of it. Does it mean that it could get easily damaged during transportation? According to the Schiit website, i have to pay my own shipping if i need an exchange, which normally wouldn't be a problem but on an international order that's a different thing.
> 
> Ho, and i think i'll just add a mobi too and rely on the x3 only for outdoors listening, heh.


 
  
 Mine arrived straight from the us (as every other schiit of course), and I bought it used from a kind head-fier in uk, then it has been moved by ship back to North America, all in his original package: not a single scratch.


----------



## Rossliew

zerodeefex said:


> What are you driving with it? HD600 or HD800, Vali is a no brainer. More resolving, better instrument separation, better stage. I loved the E12 but its not even in the same ballpark for these two cans.


 
 Vali with the HD600 is awesome!


----------



## jexby

rossliew said:


> Vali with the HD600 is awesome!


 
  
 Indeed, had this setup for months since Vali arrived.  paired nicely with Concero HD as well.
 alas, sold my HD600.  likely selling Vali soon as a result.


----------



## SinfulAngel

hi all I'm fairly certain I'll be using the vali daily for most of the day. how will the tubes hold up? any help appreciated


----------



## fenderf4i

sinfulangel said:


> hi all I'm fairly certain I'll be using the vali daily for most of the day. how will the tubes hold up? any help appreciated


 
  
  
  
 Schiit states: "Vali's tubes are expected to last 10,000-20,000 hours--which is 7-14 years of listening 4 hours a day, every day"
  
 So you will be just fine.


----------



## SinfulAngel

Fantastic thank you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 happy listening


----------



## SinfulAngel

one more thing would the "rining" of the tubes be considered painful? or just annoying


----------



## fenderf4i

Barely audible, and only for 30 seconds or less, depending on the headphones used. It's a non-issue.


----------



## potterpastor

I have the HD 600. I also have the Vali and the E12. I think the Vali sounds better


----------



## SinfulAngel

thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 one last question the headphones I have now (v moda xs) are fairly sensitive with 28ohm impudence. although I do plan on getting another pair, will the vali play nice with what I have?
  
 (sensitivity is 109db)


----------



## fenderf4i

With 28 ohm headphones, you should hear more of a constant background hiss with the Vali.


----------



## potterpastor

I have listened to low impedance headphones on the Vali and I did not have any issues with hissing. But I do get that high-pitched whistle in the background when there is interference. But not always. that happens regardless of the headphone I'm using.


----------



## SinfulAngel

would the hiss be while music is playing?


----------



## fenderf4i

Grado's definitely have a much higher noise floor on the Vali. In quiet passages of music, you will hear it.


----------



## Billheiser

Agree.  I have and love the Vali but it's not made for low impedance headphones.  Playing music will override the low level hiss, with variation depending on amount of quiet passages in your music selection.  But you will hear hiss between tracks, at the least.  High impedance headphones, OTHOH, are made for the Vali and do great.


----------



## SinfulAngel

my headphones right now are v moda xs although i plan on either the q701 or hd598 i think


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Agree.  I have and love the Vali but it's not made for low impedance headphones.  Playing music will override the low level hiss, with variation depending on amount of quiet passages in your music selection.  But you will hear hiss between tracks, at the least.  High impedance headphones, OTHOH, are made for the Vali and do great.


 
 There are many low impedance headphones that are not very sensitive and will not have issues with low level hiss.


----------



## SinfulAngel

the sensitivity of my headphones is 109db if that helps


----------



## Billheiser

Ok, cool. I was going by my experience with just the low impedance ones I own (grado, Phiaton, NAD).


----------



## StanD

The ratings for sensitivity/efficiency are given at either dB/V or dB/mW. Make sure you know which one you are looking at.
 My HE-500's are rated at 89 dB/mW at 38 Ohms which is 103 dB/V, not sensitive.
 My HD600's are rated at 112 dB/V at 300 Ohms which is about 107 dB/mW.
 Neither of these have noise issues with my Vali, or any other amp that I own.


----------



## Billheiser

+1 for my hd600's, perfect w the Vali.


----------



## SinfulAngel

105dB @ 1kHz 1mW at 28ohm how would you rate that?


----------



## StanD

sinfulangel said:


> 105dB @ 1kHz 1mW at 28ohm how would you rate that?


 
 That's 120.5 dB/V. That's seems sensitive to me.


----------



## SinfulAngel

thanks ah well


----------



## Opus131

Just bit the bullet and bought a Vali. Still in transit, but i can't wait. 
  
 I'm planning to use the x3 as a DAC, but i also have friend who's selling a Fiio D3. How would that perform with a Vali, compared to the x3 as a DAC? I received confirmation that the battery on the x3 keeps on charging even if on full capacity which means using the x3 as a DAC will shorten its life. If i can use the D3 instead it would be great.


----------



## jgreen16

I personally wasn't that impressed with the D3, but YMMV. I felt that the extra money spent on the Modi was well worth it.


----------



## seb7

5 months since I got this amp. Even more impressed by it now. This little amp sings


----------



## jbarrentine

Can anyone tell me what Schiit's average repair time is like?


----------



## Billheiser

jbarrentine said:


> Can anyone tell me what Schiit's average repair time is like?


 
 1.  I don't know, but
 2.  when I sent my Bifrost in for an upgrade, it took about 2 weeks
 3.  I don't know, really.
 4.  You can email Schiit to ask.


----------



## ninjames

So I sold my Magni and Modi so I could get some other things, but I'm looking into a Vali for my HE-400 in the future. I know there's A LOT of impressions out there, but has a consensus been reached on the Vali + HE-400 pairing? Does it have enough juice? Is the treble less harsh than it was on the Magni?
  
 Do these actually carry the "tube sound" well? I miss my Little Dot something fierce. I'm also unsure what I should get with a DAC ... treble was a problem with Magni/Modi and I understand that came from both devices. I dunno if Modi + Vali is enough to eliminate those or if I should pair the Vali with something else. Is the a good, $100-ish DAC that most consider good with the Vali?


----------



## StanD

ninjames said:


> So I sold my Magni and Modi so I could get some other things, but I'm looking into a Vali for my HE-400 in the future. I know there's A LOT of impressions out there, but has a consensus been reached on the Vali + HE-400 pairing? Does it have enough juice? Is the treble less harsh than it was on the Magni?
> 
> Do these actually carry the "tube sound" well? I miss my Little Dot something fierce. I'm also unsure what I should get with a DAC ... treble was a problem with Magni/Modi and I understand that came from both devices. I dunno if Modi + Vali is enough to eliminate those or if I should pair the Vali with something else. Is the a good, $100-ish DAC that most consider good with the Vali?


 
 IMO the treble you speak of is more due to the HE-400's. You might try smoothing it down with a touch of EQ in the right place, I don't think that an amp is going to change the FR. I tried the HE-400's but ended up getting the HE-500's for this same reason. You do get tons of good bass with the HE-400.


----------



## ninjames

stand said:


> IMO the treble you speak of is more due to the HE-400's. You might try smoothing it down with a touch of EQ in the right place, I don't think that an amp is going to change the FR. I tried the HE-400's but ended up getting the HE-500's for this same reason. You do get tons of good bass with the HE-400.


 
 I've had the HE-400 for two years now and am happy with the treble when using things like the Fiio E17 and the Little Dot MKIII. It's just that the Magni and Modi themselves are naturally treble-heavy.


----------



## StanD

ninjames said:


> I've had the HE-400 for two years now and am happy with the treble when using things like the Fiio E17 and the Little Dot MKIII. It's just that the Magni and Modi themselves are naturally treble-heavy.


 
 I've A/B switched the Magni and Asgard 2 with numerous headphones and found the FR to be same. The Magni's FR is "20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB" so I find it difficult to think the amp is the cause. The Modi has an FR  of "20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB" which is as flat as it's going to get. The Vali has an FR of  "20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 5Hz-100KHz, -3dB" which for all intents and purposes (to human ears) is the same as the Magni. Whether you are looking at the Magni's +/-0.1 dB variation or Vali's +/-0.2 dB variation throughout the audio spectrum, that's nothing that anyone should be able to hear any difference or be excessive in treble.


----------



## ninjames

stand said:


> I've A/B switched the Magni and Asgard 2 with numerous headphones and found the FR to be same. The Magni's FR is "20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB" so I find it difficult to think the amp is the cause. The Modi has an FR  of "20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB" which is as flat as it's going to get. The Vali has an FR of  "20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 5Hz-100KHz, -3dB" which for all intents and purposes (to human ears) is the same as the Magni. Whether you are looking at the Magni's +/-0.1 dB variation or Vali's +/-0.2 dB variation throughout the audio spectrum, that's nothing that anyone should be able to hear any difference or be excessive in treble.


 
 I mean, thanks for all the information. But that's not what I was asking -- and I'm hardly the only one who thinks the Magni and the Modi are particularly bright with something of a harsh treble. In fact, that's the majority opinion. I realize that doesn't make it right, but I'd just like to gently tell you I'm not particularly interested in those numbers, mate! I was asking if the Vali tended to be less bright, particularly with the HE-400, and a few other questions to which you're not necessarily addressing. The HE-400 are bright, too bright at times with the Magni, and this is not the case with, say, the Little Dot MKIII with the Fiio E17 as the DAC. Hence why I asked questions about the tube sound, the warmth, etc. Trying to tell me that what I'm hearing is wrong doesn't change what I'm hearing (and what most people hear.)
  
 Whatever the case, thanks.


----------



## Opus131

Hah, just got my Vali. Wow, so far it sounds GLORIOUS. I wonder, is the audio going to improve? Is this one of those things that take a while before they reach optimal performance? Because to me it sounds very good already as it is. 
  
 The bastards as customs charged me 40 euros though. Absurd. That's basically half the price of the Vali. 20% my ass, i wonder what other charges they pulled out of their collective bums. Price was still lower than what i would have payed at audiophonics, so i guess that's how it has to be.


----------



## StanD

opus131 said:


> Hah, just got my Vali. Wow, so far it sounds GLORIOUS. I wonder, is the audio going to improve? Is this one of those things that take a while before they reach optimal performance? Because to me it sounds very good already as it is.
> 
> The bastards as customs charged me 40 euros though. Absurd. That's basically half the price of the Vali. 20% my ass, i wonder what other charges they pulled out of their collective bums. Price was still lower than what i would have payed at audiophonics, so i guess that's how it has to be.


 
 Ouch, they are highwaymen.


----------



## Opus131

What can you do, i live in a country of thieves. 
  
 BTW, this thing gets pretty warm after a while. Would it be a good idea to try to find some cooling solution? Has anybody done something like that?


----------



## StanD

opus131 said:


> What can you do, i live in a country of thieves.
> 
> BTW, this thing gets pretty warm after a while. Would it be a good idea to try to find some cooling solution? Has anybody done something like that?


 
 Warm? If you want to heat your home, get an Asgard 2. I wouldn't worry about, it's not hot, just warm.


----------



## Billheiser

opus131 said:


> ...
> 
> BTW, this thing gets pretty warm after a while. Would it be a good idea to try to find some cooling solution? Has anybody done something like that?



That's how it's designed. running warm means it's working right.


----------



## Opus131

Ok, ok, just wondering. This thing better last the five years Schiit promised.


----------



## StanD

opus131 said:


> Ok, ok, just wondering. This thing better last the five years Schiit promised.


 
 I wouldn't worry, their Schit don't stink. The tubes in the Vali are inexpensive.


----------



## purrin

ninjames said:


> I've had the HE-400 for two years now and am happy with the treble when using things like the Fiio E17 and the Little Dot MKIII. It's just that the Magni and Modi themselves are naturally treble-heavy.


 
  
 Yes Magni + Modi can be bright depending upon your computer USB port. Wyrd+Modi+Vali is fantastic and not bright at all. Both Wyrd and Vali help with smoother and laid back treble.


----------



## StanD

purrin said:


> Yes Magni + Modi can be bright depending upon your computer USB port. Wyrd+Modi+Vali is fantastic and not bright at all. Both Wyrd and Vali help with smoother and laid back treble.


 
 I don't see how the Wryd should affect the FR or SQ other than putting some control over noise or glitches.
 The below is what Schiit says about the Wyrd, their own product.
  
Sonic benefits? That’s a lot of hoo-ha!
You’re right. There’s no reason this should make any system sound better. Although we can measure the difference in USB power supply noise, it really shouldn’t matter. Despite this, some listeners have said that there are sonic benefits from using Wyrd. Us, we remain Swiss on the matter—we don’t do the hard sell by promising sonic nirvana.


----------



## Ohbizzle

Hey! 

I just ordered my first pair of nice headphones and an amp. I went with Sennheiser HD 558s and a Schiit Vali. I plan on picking up a Schiit Modi near the end of the month. 

I keep going back and forth about picking up the Magni instead of the Vali. I've never had an amp before so I have no experience. I really appreciate large sound stages and I listen to a wide variety of music but I hate overpowering bass. I do see myself upgrading in the future and I know I will get some closed headphones for school/smash tournaments (although this will be on my phone primarily so the amp will probably not be used with the closed headphones). The small hum at the start doesn't concern me much unless I can hear it after a minute or so but I am worried about the tubes decaying, the amps clarity (I love videogames), and how it will fair with further headphone upgrades. 

Any advice / thoughts would be much appreciated


----------



## purrin

stand said:


> I don't see how the Wryd should affect the FR or SQ other than putting some control over noise or glitches.


 
  
 Neither do I. And as you just pointed out, neither does Jason.


----------



## pearljam50000

What happens when the tubes die?


----------



## jbarrentine

pearljam50000 said:


> What happens when the tubes die?


 
  
 Send it to Schiit and they replace them.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is it possible to swap manualy?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

yes just desolder old tube and re solder new one. Might be a while before you need to though!


----------



## magiccabbage

Can someone say if the Schiit Vali is a good match for the Beyer T1? I know its supposed to be great with HD800 and the T1/HD800 do similar in many ways so im hoping that the Vali/T1 would be a good pairing. 
  
 I'm asking on behalf of a friend who will be using the Modi as a DAC. 
  
  
 I know there are a  lot of good amps out there for T1 (i own the WA2) but my friend is just looking for a good amp to start off with and hopefully the Vali will be up to the task.


----------



## jbarrentine

It's excellent with my T90.


----------



## magiccabbage

jbarrentine said:


> It's excellent with my T90.


 
 That's a good sign......


----------



## jbarrentine

At some point I'll probably buy a woo something or build a bottlehead crack, but for now the Vali serves me perfectly fine. I use an HRT MS2 for what it's worth.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

yes very good with my T1s, second only to OTLs where the T1 really shines at it's best.


----------



## magiccabbage

nic rhodes said:


> yes very good with my T1s, second only to OTLs where the T1 really shines at it's best.


 
 Thank's for posting.What OTL's have you used? I have a WA2 myself.


----------



## GreenMachine

Hey everyone! I'm dead set on getting a  DT990 (Probably going with the 250) and I was able to try a pair today (250) and I absolutely love them though the treble's are like what I've read, a bit fatiguing. I was curious if the Vali helps tone them down a bit? From all I've read, this AMP is spectacular for the price and I'm loving that! If I get this amp I plan on pairing it with the Modi


----------



## Nic Rhodes

magiccabbage said:


> Thank's for posting.What OTL's have you used? I have a WA2 myself.


 

 WA2, LD 4se, Valhalla, Crack, DIYs....these ere where the T1 really excels.


----------



## jbarrentine

Can anyone comment on the Valhalla 2 vs the Vali? Differences, most notable improvements, worth the price, etc.


----------



## pearljam50000

^ This!
i would also would like to know, thanks.


----------



## StanD

greenmachine said:


> Hey everyone! I'm dead set on getting a  DT990 (Probably going with the 250) and I was able to try a pair today (250) and I absolutely love them though the treble's are like what I've read, a bit fatiguing. I was curious if the Vali helps tone them down a bit? From all I've read, this AMP is spectacular for the price and I'm loving that! If I get this amp I plan on pairing it with the Modi


 
 If the treble is strident, don't expect an amp to really tone that down. That's what EQ is for, I would consider looking for a set of cans that makes me happy on its own merits. If you're dead set on it then see if you can live with its treble. It's tough when one is really looking forward to a set of headphones and there's something about it that's making you wonder. Does the vendor offer a return period?


----------



## GreenMachine

stand said:


> If the treble is strident, don't expect an amp to really tone that down. That's what EQ is for, I would consider looking for a set of cans that makes me happy on its own merits. If you're dead set on it then see if you can live with its treble. It's tough when one is really looking forward to a set of headphones and there's something about it that's making you wonder. Does the vendor offer a return period?


 
 Well I took some extra time today to go back to where I tried the 990's on and though the treble is there, I can easily cope with it as it isn't terrible by any means! Listened to the cans for over an hour without any fatiguing! I also can't get beyond the comfort of the Beyer's.

 Now I didn't word my question quite right  I meant to ask will the Vali really give the warmer sound of tubes that I've read about so much and take the edge off the treble? When I was listening to the cans earlier today, they were paired with a FiiO e10, so that's what I'm putting the vali up against.


----------



## StanD

greenmachine said:


> Well I took some extra time today to go back to where I tried the 990's on and though the treble is there, I can easily cope with it as it isn't terrible by any means! Listened to the cans for over an hour without any fatiguing! I also can't get beyond the comfort of the Beyer's.
> 
> Now I didn't word my question quite right  I meant to ask will the Vali really give the warmer sound of tubes that I've read about so much and take the edge off the treble? When I was listening to the cans earlier today, they were paired with a FiiO e10, so that's what I'm putting the vali up against.


 
 The E10k (200 mW) has far less power than the Vali (650 mW) at 32 Ohms. It also has a built in DAC. I would still get the Vali and some other DAC. I still wouldn't rely on an Amp to take the edge off the treble, IMO that story is way overrated. The warmer sound of tubes is attributed to even order Harmonic Distortion. The Vali or a more expensive good tube Amp delivers very little distortion, IMO not enough to really make a difference and most people will probably not even hear the difference. You might even consider getting a Magni, it is more powerful, far better SNR and has no ringing. The story about it being trebly is IMO a myth, I compared it, using an A/B switch, with an Asgard 2 using an HD600, HE-500 and more headphones an found no difference in sound. I also own a Vali, it's a good amp, but I prefer the Magni or Asgard 2 over it. If you really want a tube amp the Vali is a hybrid, delivering a decent amount of power, sounds good, built well and at a price that is hard to beat. IMO wishing it to tame treble should not be an expectation.
 If you can cope with the 990's treble and that's the headphone that will bring a smile to your face, go for it and smile.


----------



## GreenMachine

Stan, thank you for the insight and your opinions! Looks like I'll have a toss up between the Vali and the Magni (either will be paired with the Modi). i might order both and just take the restocking fee hit on the one I don't like. Thanks again!


----------



## StanD

greenmachine said:


> Stan, thank you for the insight and your opinions! Looks like I'll have a toss up between the Vali and the Magni (either will be paired with the Modi). i might order both and just take the restocking fee hit on the one I don't like. Thanks again!


 
 I hope you find what you're looking for. Schiit's try and return policy is very nice, check to see if there is a nominal restocking fee as these are priced generously, I think they want some coin on returns. I don't think you will be disappointed.


----------



## GreenMachine

15% restocking fee so I'll take the hit. Yeah, I'm excited to get this to say the least!


----------



## swannie007

greenmachine said:


> 15% restocking fee so I'll take the hit. Yeah, I'm excited to get this to say the least!



15% restocking fee is way better than having a piece of gear you might never use. That still leaves you with the remaining 85% to spend on other treats!


----------



## Ohbizzle

greenmachine said:


> 15% restocking fee so I'll take the hit. Yeah, I'm excited to get this to say the least!




Order from Amazon, no restock fee, same warranty and support


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi guys - how micro-phonic is the Vali? If I put a cup down on the table beside the amp will it ping?


----------



## RickB

magiccabbage said:


> Hi guys - how micro-phonic is the Vali? If I put a cup down on the table beside the amp will it ping?


 

 No, it won't ring. Well, maybe if you slammed down a heavy glass. I haven't tried it.


----------



## Billheiser

It rings when you plug headphones in or out, and when it is first switched on. Or if you knock on it. Mine ring for about 30 seconds. No ringing when things are put down on the desk near the Vali.


----------



## purrin

magiccabbage said:


> Hi guys - how micro-phonic is the Vali? If I put a cup down on the table beside the amp will it ping?


 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWiiZcsqUro&list=UUHLFKSjre4-5jq-Pc4ygScw


----------



## pearljam50000

Does it ring even if the volume is at 0?
Can it damage the drivers?


----------



## OmarCCX

pearljam50000 said:


> Does it ring even if the volume is at 0?
> Can it damage the drivers?


 
 Yes. It's got nothing to do with the actual volume.
 Doubt it.


----------



## magiccabbage

purrin said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWiiZcsqUro&list=UUHLFKSjre4-5jq-Pc4ygScw


 
 HAHAHAH nice one Purrin.


----------



## RedBull

Ringing in Vali is nothing, at least for mine.
Very funny purrin, hahaha


----------



## nolossaudioguy

I agree, I only hear ringing when I plug my cans in.  I really find it a non issue unless you are consistently hitting the surface it's on.


----------



## Fearless1

pearljam50000 said:


> Does it ring even if the volume is at 0?
> Can it damage the drivers?


 

 You have asked multiple times about the Vali on here and the HD800 thread.   Here are my thoughts:
  
 My current set-up for the HD800 is player (I pad/Yamaha Receiver/ PC)>> DAC2/Rega DAC (pending on the player I choose)>>Fosgate Signature Series>>HD800. A captivating combo that takes the HD800 to extraordinary level of audio bliss to my ears.
  
 That being said, I recently had a mini-meet with some friends. My one friend brought over the  Bifrost>>>Vali>>.DT990 I tried the HD800 with this combo and have to say it was unreal how good it was. The Vali does in fact synergize well with the HD800. It got better with a DAC higher up the chain then the Bifrost, but I was shocked at how smooth and natural it was. I ordered one for my bedside rig and am very happy with the results.
  
 Does it sound as good as my main set-up? No.     Does it sound phenomenal for a $130 dollar tube amp? Yep.    
  
 It has a small ring for 10 seconds when you turn it on or plug a headphone in, but goes away and becomes dead silent.
  
 I have yet to try it with my the rest of my collection, but so far I am *very* impressed with the sound of it.


----------



## Rossliew

The Vali is a PHENOMENAL amp for its price and probably for several hundred dollars more as well, period.


----------



## pearljam50000

It's very nice to know you don't to spend thousands on an amp to make the HD800 sound nice.


----------



## UmustBKidn

magiccabbage said:


> Hi guys - how micro-phonic is the Vali? If I put a cup down on the table beside the amp will it ping?


 
  
 Troll alert! Lol.
 I wish I had a dime for every "will it ring" question in this thread.
  


purrin said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWiiZcsqUro&list=UUHLFKSjre4-5jq-Pc4ygScw


 
  
 Yes, well, I suppose if you beat on the Vali with a hammer, it might also ring a bit.


----------



## nolossaudioguy

I think the ringing is really a non issue and really has been over discussed.  I hear a slight ringing when I plug my cans in(and no music is playing).  If I'm playing music, I don't think I'd hear it even if I put a hammer to the chassis.  It's just a very slight background ring you'll hear if there's no music to mask it.  It should not weigh in at all in your buying decision.  The fact that it has a rather high 6.5 ohm output impedance is a much more important aspect to consider(it can affect the frequency response with low z cans).


----------



## Billheiser

nolossaudioguy said:


> I think the ringing is really a non issue and really has been over discussed.  I hear a slight ringing when I plug my cans in(and no music is playing).  If I'm playing music, I don't think I'd hear it even if I put a hammer to the chassis.  It's just a very slight background ring you'll hear if there's no music to mask it.  It should not weigh in at all in your buying decision.  The fact that it has a rather high 6.5 ohm output impedance is a much more important aspect to consider(it can affect the frequency response with low z cans).


 
 It's an issue worth discussing when talking about this amp.  It's noted in Schiit's own description of the amp, and it is unusual - very few amps have that issue.  So among prospective purchasers, and recent owners, it's reasonable & sensible to discuss the issue, and the degree of the ringing, and how susceptible individual units are.
 I like my Vali too.  Love the sound and everything, AND it's the only headphone product I've experienced that has an unpleasant high pitched initial ringing and one has to take that into account.


----------



## BournePerfect

Apparently the Vali sounds like a telephone.

/thread


----------



## Rem0o

bourneperfect said:


> Apparently the Vali sounds like a telephone.
> 
> /thread


 
 +1^(-i ^ 2)


----------



## betula

Ringing is not an issue. I hear it for 10 seconds after switching on, that's all. It is a great amp for the money. If you are hesitating to buy it because of 'ringing', forget it quickly, and buy it. It is not an issue.


----------



## nolossaudioguy

billheiser said:


> It's an issue worth discussing when talking about this amp.  It's noted in Schiit's own description of the amp, and it is unusual - very few amps have that issue.  So among prospective purchasers, and recent owners, it's reasonable & sensible to discuss the issue, and the degree of the ringing, and how susceptible individual units are.
> I like my Vali too.  Love the sound and everything, AND it's the only headphone product I've experienced that has an unpleasant high pitched initial ringing and one has to take that into account.


 
 OK, I should leave the soap-box attitude out of these posts, I stand corrected.  It does bring up another aspect of the ringing though, since there are seemingly small differences in the amount of ringing in different units, you won't know how much yours will ring until you actually get one.  I wonder if the size of the tubes have anything to do with the sensitivity of the microphonics.  My other tube amp(which uses a larger "normal" sized tube) doesn't suffer at all from this sensitivity.  For my unit though, I can say the ringing has been a non issue for me.


----------



## Billheiser

yes, there does seem to be variance in the amount they ring.  Some report very little, less than 10 seconds, and others up to a minute after turning on or plugging in.  I had 2, with manufacture dates a few months apart, and both mine rang about the same amount (30 seconds).
 I sold one (not out of dissatisfaction) and later got the tubed Valhalla2.  It has no ringing at all, and that's a bonus.  I concede that Vali ringing is not a huge deal.


----------



## BournePerfect

Has anyone noticed the ringing with the Vali yet? I'm not sure if it's been discussed yet?


----------



## StanD

bourneperfect said:


> Has anyone noticed the ringing with the Vali yet? I'm not sure if it's been discussed yet?


 
 Now that you b*ring* it up, maybe just a little.


----------



## BournePerfect

It's just funny-I left this thread unread for about 3 months and 200 pages ago because it had already been beaten to death and back about the ringing. I come back-skipping those unread 200 pages mind you-only to find the same old merry-go-round spinning endlessly. It's a shame that the thread about maybe the best value in all of Headfi, is also one of it's most worthless. 

Jason had the Vali disclaimer on it's product page since day 1. It's 'issue' ( if you can call it that on a $119 steal of the century) has largely been eliminated, or can be, with a screwdriver and little fuss. There's even a nicely illustrated walkthrough in this very thread.

-Daniel


----------



## Billheiser

bourneperfect said:


> It's just funny-I left this thread unread for about 3 months and 200 pages ago because it had already been beaten to death and back about the ringing. I come back-skipping those unread 200 pages mind you-only to find the same old merry-go-round spinning endlessly. It's a shame that the thread about maybe the best value in all of Headfi, is also one of it's most worthless.
> 
> Jason had the Vali disclaimer on it's product page since day 1. It's 'issue' ( if you can call it that on a $119 steal of the century) has largely been eliminated, or can be, with a screwdriver and little fuss. There's even a nicely illustrated walkthrough in this very thread.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Within the last week or two, several prospective purchasers have asked about the Vali and its ringing.  People reply.  That's OK, and not worthless.  Not everyone reads the previous 4178 posts.


----------



## BournePerfect

No-but they could pick one of the 4178 lol. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jimmers

Search Results for “ringing” Results 1 to 25 of 501 ...


----------



## ejwiles

That's nothing.  A Google search for "Schiit Vali ringing" returns "About 4,400 results."


----------



## pearljam50000

Does the ringing sounds better on HD800 or K812? (;


----------



## Fearless1

pearljam50000 said:


> Does the ringing sounds better on HD800 or K812? (;


 

 IMHO I could not get rid of the K812 fast enough.


----------



## kothganesh

My normal mode of operation is to switch the Vali on, plug in my HD 800 and give it 10-20 seconds before playing anything. I've been able to avoid hearing the ringing issue. I don't hear any ringing once the music starts. My own $ 0.02.
  
 On a related subject, the 800 plays very well through the Vali. Pretty impressive performance for a tiny amp and will give the BH Crack with Speedball a very tough fight. Amongst my amps, the ZDSE is better with the 800.


----------



## pearljam50000

fearless1 said:


> IMHO I could not get rid of the K812 fast enough.



Why?


----------



## Fearless1

pearljam50000 said:


> Why?


Not for me.


----------



## amigastar

After considering to buy a Vali amp, i was told that it may not have enough current for my Hifiman HE-500. So i just had an idea.
 Would it be possible to use the Concero into my Matrix M-Stage amp and then as a preamp into the vali.
 Please tell me if that is advisable or would the sound be too colored/altered because going through two amps?
  
 Since i have no idea if this works i would hope for clarification.
  
 thanks


----------



## jimmers

amigastar said:


> After considering to buy a Vali amp, i was told that it may not have enough current for my Hifiman HE-500.


 
 According to innerfidelity the Hifiman HE-500 needs 2mW for 90dB, schiit say Vali does 550mW into 50Ohms, so plenty of power.


> Originally Posted by *amigastar* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Would it be possible to use the Concero into my Matrix M-Stage amp and then as a preamp into the vali.


 
 Won't increase the max current from Vali if that's what you want.


----------



## Billheiser

jimmers said:


> According to innerfidelity the Hifiman HE-500 needs 2mW for 90dB, schiit say Vali does 550mW into 50Ohms, so plenty of power.
> Won't increase the max current from Vali if that's what you want.



Right. And you would risk over driving the Vali.


----------



## StanD

jimmers said:


> According to innerfidelity the Hifiman HE-500 needs 2mW for 90dB, schiit say Vali does 550mW into 50Ohms, so plenty of power.
> Won't increase the max current from Vali if that's what you want.


 
 By that measurement you would need around 1W to reach 117 dB SPL for 27 dB of headroom to avoid distorting on peaks. I'd say that the Vali is just a tad short on power for running the HE-500's above modest volume. If you're exclusively listening to highly compressed (loudness) music then it's probably OK.


----------



## jimmers

stand said:


> By that measurement you would need around 1W to reach 117 dB SPL for 27 dB of headroom to avoid distorting on peaks. I'd say that the Vali is just a tad short on power for running the HE-500's above modest volume. If you're exclusively listening to highly compressed (loudness) music then it's probably OK.


 
 If Schiit are quoting their power output as RMS continuous at some arbitrary low distortion then the dynamic power should be ample to get above (arbitrary) 117 dB.
 Jeez, for 117 dB my stereo would need to output kWs


----------



## StanD

jimmers said:


> If Schiit are quoting their power output as RMS continuous at some arbitrary low distortion then the dynamic power should be ample to get above (arbitrary) 117 dB.
> Jeez, for 117 dB my stereo would need to output kWs


 
 Nope, by the figures given in the post 117 dB. Actually if you look at the specs of the headphones, 1W should take you close to 119 dB. No kWs are required. I own both products.


----------



## jimmers

stand said:


> 119 dB. No kWs are required.


 
 re: "Jeez, for 117 dB my stereo would need to output kWs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  "
 By "my stereo" I meant my speaker setup (84 dB/Watt @ 1 M, 3 metres listening distance) sorry for the confusion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My HD650s don't need kWs (just mWs)


----------



## amigastar

Alright guys,
  
 thanks for clarification.


----------



## StanD

jimmers said:


> re: "Jeez, for 117 dB my stereo would need to output kWs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So you're thinking of upgrading the amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding


----------



## gab840

How is Vali compared to Fiio E17 amp ??? Though i use them with HE-400.....Any comments


----------



## Vma5

I've been using the Modi/Vali combo for last week or so and I like how my HD700 sounds with the Vali. Although I have one problem with it, the noise floor seem to be bit too high for them. Hissing is suprisingly loud, it blends into the music when I'm listening to noisier songs (rock, electronic, etc.), but in classical, ambient and acoustic style of music the hissing can be bit distracting. I'd be interested to hear if other HD700 owners has had the same experience.


----------



## ace54

so I was looking for a DAC I can connect to my Vali Amp I was going to get the Modi DAC but seems it is not compatible with DOLBY/DTS/PCM like the Fii0 D07 cheaper and better then Modi amp even the schiit tech said I should buy the FiiO D07 over the Modi DAC
  
 Here is the conversation 
  
 ME is your optical input Modi DAC Compatible with DOLBY/DTS and PCM ?
  
 Schiit Tech No, the same for any other 2-channel DAC.
    Nick T.
  
 Schiit Tech
tech@schiit.com
  
  
ME the Fii0 D07 can
  
 FiiO D07 Advanced Digital to Analog Audio Converter - 96kHz/24bit Optical and Coaxial DAC
  
  
 Compatible with DOLBY/DTS/PCM, Supporting kinds of digital audio decoding, professional signal conversion 
Classicl metal style with eternal value
User friendly design, easy and humane operation to simplify the life
High quality
 
  
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00BB4AECI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 Fii0 D07 
  
 "Here are just a few of the devices supported: Digital TVs and HDTVs CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD players Apple TV, Google TV (Revue) Game consoles: PS3 (All), XBOX 360 (Slim) Satellite/Cable receivers and DVRs, TiVO AV Receivers and Integrated Amplifiers Digital media players and streamers "
  
  
Schiit Tech 
 Then that’s the one you should buy.    Nick T.
  
 Schiit Tech
tech@schiit.com
  
  
ME I sure will
  
 Thanks


----------



## elwappo99

ace54 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm sure this belongs in the Modi forum, but I can pretty clearly see the line of reasoning from Schiit. 
  
 I believe most sources of Dolby and DTS are 5.1 streams, so 6 channels. 2 Channel DACs are only meant for 2 channel material. I'm not sure what method Fiio uses, but somehow they are taking 6 channels and converting it to 2. You're not getting a true Dolby or DTS signal out of those RCA jacks.
  
 In addition, Schiit really isn't "into" all those different codecs, file types, etc. There's a lot of gimmicky marketing stuff around Dolby audio, DTS, or other "submersive surround sound" software. In my experience all of them drastically reduce the sound quality you're getting.


----------



## fenderf4i

ace54 said:


> [COLOR=004B8B]Schiit Tech[/COLOR]
> Then that’s the one you should buy.
> 
> 
> Nick T.




This is why I love Schiit. No BS. What was your goal in bringing up the Fiio with him? That they should design and build one just for you? The only answer he could give you was, go buy it, because it's the product for you. You were at the point where you were just wasting his time. 

He is still correct though. There aren't 2-channel DAC's that decode DTS etc. That is a 6 channel DAC that destroys the signal down into 2 channels.


----------



## swannie007

This little Vali amp impresses me every time I use it. I am listening to it right now fed by a Breeze Audio DAC with my Beyer T90's and it sounds great. Can't believe it was only $129.00. Best money I have spent on audio in a long time. Highly recommended.


----------



## ace54

you are missing the point ewallp99 IF a DAC is compatible with DOLBY/DTS/PCM then you will get at least sound coming from it all the time even if its not the best sound and if a DAC is only compatible with PCM meaning it can only decode PCM then you only get sound from it with PCM signal making it useless with DOBLY/DTS
  
 I think this Modi DAC was made for computers or MP3 players NOT for new TVs with optical output or blu ray players


----------



## Fearless1

ace54 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The D007 does not sound as good as the Modi , And the Modi is a DAC, not an amp. I own both.


----------



## Fearless1

fearless1 said:


> The D007 does not sound as good as the Modi , And the Modi is a DAC, not an amp. I own both.


 

 Edit, didn't see your second post, disregard.


----------



## thomascrown

ace54 said:


> you are missing the point ewallp99 IF a DAC is compatible with DOLBY/DTS/PCM then you will get at least sound coming from it all the time even if its not the best sound and if a DAC is only compatible with PCM meaning it can only decode PCM then you only get sound from it with PCM signal making it useless with DOBLY/DTS
> 
> I think this Modi DAC was made for computers or MP3 players NOT for new TVs with optical output or blu ray players


 
 http://schiit.com/public/upload/general/optimodi_back_1000.jpg
  
 New modi with optical input


----------



## elwappo99

ace54 said:


> you are missing the point ewallp99 IF a DAC is compatible with DOLBY/DTS/PCM then you will get at least sound coming from it all the time even if its not the best sound and if a DAC is only compatible with PCM meaning it can only decode PCM then you only get sound from it with PCM signal making it useless with DOBLY/DTS
> 
> I think this Modi DAC was made for computers or MP3 players NOT for new TVs with optical output or blu ray players


 
  
  
 The Fiio product will take that signal and turn it into a super low quality sounding one. It needs to take those 6 channels and turn them into 2. In the process you are lowering the sound quality of the signal. You're lowering the sound quality in this process, and the whole purpose of the DTS and Dolby streams. 
  
  
 You're right, the Modi isn't a product to hook up in place of some large receiver that does the latest DTS or Dolby, or 7.1 over HDMI. There's always been a barrier between the 2.0 Stereo audiophiles and the 5.1 + people. Some brands like Marantz is probably what you want if you hope to get decent sound quality out of a 5.1 signal.


----------



## ace54

I wouldn't expect it to have the best sound for $99 my only beef with the Modi is it doesn't have a Dolby/DTS decoder to hear the audio and a cheap China Fiio D07 does and can decode PCM/Dolby and DTS so shame on Schiit
  
  cant afford Marantz costs an arm and a leg


----------



## thomascrown

ace54 said:


> I wouldn't expect it to have the best sound for $99 my only beef with the Modi is it doesn't have a Dolby/DTS decoder to hear the audio and a cheap China Fiio D07 does and can decode PCM/Dolby and DTS so shame on Schiit
> 
> cant afford Marantz costs an arm and a leg


 
  
Schiit Tech
 Then that’s the one you should buy.
  

 Nick T.


----------



## Billheiser

ace54 said:


> I wouldn't expect it to have the best sound for $99 my only beef with the Modi is it doesn't have a Dolby/DTS decoder to hear the audio and a cheap China Fiio D07 does and can decode PCM/Dolby and DTS so shame on Schiit
> 
> cant afford Marantz costs an arm and a leg


 
 "shame on Schiit" for making the best budget stereo DAC in the USA?  You apparently want a different category of product.  Don't go the Porsche dealer and complain they don't have pickup trucks.


----------



## fenderf4i

ace54 said:


> I wouldn't expect it to have the best sound for $99 my only beef with the Modi is it doesn't have a Dolby/DTS decoder to hear the audio and a cheap China Fiio D07 does and can decode PCM/Dolby and DTS so shame on Schiit
> 
> cant afford Marantz costs an arm and a leg


 
  
  
  
 Woah. So you can get the features you want, AND save money? That's the one you want.


----------



## BournePerfect

ace54 said:


> I wouldn't expect it to have the best sound for $99 my only beef with the Modi is it doesn't have a Dolby/DTS decoder to hear the audio and a cheap China Fiio D07 does and can decode PCM/Dolby and DTS so shame on Schiit
> 
> cant afford Marantz costs an arm and a leg


 
  
 This is one of the most absurd things I've read in this thread-and that's saying something.


----------



## DigitalFreak

bourneperfect said:


> This is one of the most absurd things I've read in this thread-and that's saying something.




Go read through a Heir Audio or iBasso thread sometime. Absurd is only the ground floor of the skyscraper.


----------



## BournePerfect

Maybe another reason I stay away from portables. ;P


----------



## DigitalFreak

bourneperfect said:


> Maybe another reason I stay away from portables. ;P


 

 Smart fellow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyways, I've had a few months with the Vali so far. The love affair I'm having with the Vali still hasn't cooled off. I'd like to add that it drives the new Enigma headphone very nicely.


----------



## ravager

ace54 said:


> I wouldn't expect it to have the best sound for $99 my only beef with the Modi is it doesn't have a Dolby/DTS decoder to hear the audio and a cheap China Fiio D07 does and can decode PCM/Dolby and DTS so shame on Schiit
> 
> cant afford Marantz costs an arm and a leg


 
 What in the world does this have to do with the Vali? Shame on Schiit for what, exactly? For not giving you what YOU want, even though it is outside of the capability of a quality 2 channel DAC? That is the very reason most head fi-ers have shunned the A/V receivers with DTS, DSP, Dolby, DBX, and the like, because those units sound inferior compared to a mid-fi quality DAC, for *stereo* listening.


----------



## betula

I love my Vali, but I have tried out a full sized hi-fi amp today, an old 'Dual' amp. Vali has more detail, clearer sound, much better mids and highs. But I was impressed, how much more bass and a little more space the old dual has.   
  Is it possible to buy better sounding 'full sized' amps for the same money one spend for a small headphone amp?

 (Not like I feel lack of bass, I was just surprised, it can be much more...)


----------



## jexby

Anyone else using sensitive headphones (NAD HP50) or IEMs with the Vali
 and
 an external (cable) attenuator?
  
  
 am trying out my HP50 today with Vali, and without -12dB attenuator there is of course hiss, even at volume knob zero.
 with the -12dB installed the hiss is all but removed except with no music playing and volume knob cranked to max.
  
 will be trying to pick out any changes to music sonics however with this attenuator in place....


----------



## nolossaudioguy

I would like to trade my Vali for another similarly priced tube amp.  I find the output impedance a bit too high for my HE-400's.  I don't have the box but the amp is in excellent shape and works perfectly.  If your interested message me.  Thanks.


----------



## StanD

nolossaudioguy said:


> I would like to trade my Vali for another similarly priced tube amp.  I find the output impedance a bit too high for my HE-400's.  I don't have the box but the amp is in excellent shape and works perfectly.  If your interested message me.  Thanks.


 
 Output impedance too high in what way? The HE-400 is a planar magnetic so it's impedance is constant (resistive). Is the combination loud enough?


----------



## nolossaudioguy

My understanding is that your headphones should be at least 8 times the output impedance.  8 x 6.5ohms=52ohms.  The HE-400s are about 32 ohms.  My main grip with it is I don't think it sounds as good as my old Yamaha receiver so I thought I'd find something tube wise that has a lower impedance(or just something different).  Granted, It's a big guess on my part that the impedance is the issue but I'm not really using the Vali anyway.  It does play loud enough though.


----------



## StanD

nolossaudioguy said:


> My understanding is that your headphones should be at least 8 times the output impedance.  8 x 6.5ohms=52ohms.  The HE-400s are about 32 ohms.  My main grip with it is I don't think it sounds as good as my old Yamaha receiver so I thought I'd find something tube wise that has a lower impedance(or just something different).  Granted, It's a big guess on my part that the impedance is the issue but I'm not really using the Vali anyway.  It does play loud enough though.


 
 That rule is more for dynamic headphone which many times have an uneven impedance curve and whose diaphragms have more mass/inertia to overcome and can many times benefit from electrical damping. Perhaps you prefer a SS amp, like the Yamaha. Maybe the Magni or Asgard 2 are more of your cup of tea. Both of these amps are very good. Yes, I am a Schiit collector.


----------



## nolossaudioguy

stand said:


> That rule is more for dynamic headphone which many times have an uneven impedance curve and whose diaphragms have more mass/inertia to overcome and can many times benefit from electrical damping. Perhaps you prefer a SS amp, like the Yamaha. Maybe the Magni or Asgard 2 are more of your cup of tea. Both of these amps are very good. Yes, I am a Schiit collector.


 
 Do you have other Schiit tube amps and (if you do) how do they sound to you vs. the Vali?  I do get that the drivers in orthodynamic headphones are very low mass...so you're saying the output impedance is more about the damping ability the amp has on the drivers and because the drivers are so low mass, the damping ability isn't really a factor here?  
  
 To me the Vali has a sort of veiled, softened, sound...particularly in the high frequencies.  My modified cheapo P-1 amp sounds better to me.  It's a clarity issue.  Not that the Vali sounds bad, just slightly less resolution.  I hope I'm making sense here, it's hard to describe how something sounds to me.


----------



## StanD

nolossaudioguy said:


> Do you have other Schiit tube amps and (if you do) how do they sound to you vs. the Vali?  I do get that the drivers in orthodynamic headphones are very low mass...so you're saying the output impedance is more about the damping ability the amp has on the drivers and because the drivers are so low mass, the damping ability isn't really a factor here?
> 
> To me the Vali has a sort of veiled, softened, sound...particularly in the high frequencies.  My modified cheapo P-1 amp sounds better to me.  It's a clarity issue.  Not that the Vali sounds bad, just slightly less resolution.  I hope I'm making sense here, it's hard to describe how something sounds to me.


 
 Many times the 8:1 ration is to prevent boomy bass to a poorly controlled boost due to an impedance peak, look at the impedance curve of an Sennheiser HD558.
 I've driven my HE-500's by a Vali, which need more power than the HE-400's. It sounded fine to me, it was a only little short on wattage. If you insist upon tubes, the Valhalla is not a good choice for the HE-400's due to low power at low impedances. You should consider the Asgard 2, pure SS. Honestly, the Magni can do it as well.


----------



## sling5s

jexby said:


> Anyone else using sensitive headphones (NAD HP50) or IEMs with the Vali
> and
> an external (cable) attenuator?
> 
> ...


 

 I use an Impedance Resistance Adaptor.  I have a custom cable that was made for Etymotic er4p to er4s conversion.  It adds 75ohms.  It's what I use for my JH13pro with Vali.  And it works fine.
 I use it for my iPhone also.  The iPhone has a 2 to 4 ohms out put that makes the bass bloat.  The cable tightens the bass.
 Ebay has some and Amazon has some.


----------



## Defiant00

stand said:


> That rule is more for dynamic headphone which many times have an uneven impedance curve and whose diaphragms have more mass/inertia to overcome and can many times benefit from electrical damping. Perhaps you prefer a SS amp, like the Yamaha. Maybe the Magni or Asgard 2 are more of your cup of tea. Both of these amps are very good. Yes, I am a Schiit collector.


 
  
 While I am no expert; just wanted to confirm that this is my general understanding as well, and that impedance matching doesn't matter much with planars as long as the amp can deliver enough power.
  
 With that said, doesn't mean a specific amp is going to be for you, and maybe the Vali just isn't to your taste. Nothing wrong with that, and it does sound like you might prefer a more solid state sound.


----------



## StanD

defiant00 said:


> While I am no expert; just wanted to confirm that this is my general understanding as well, and that impedance matching doesn't matter much with planars as long as the amp can deliver enough power.
> 
> With that said, doesn't mean a specific amp is going to be for you, and maybe the Vali just isn't to your taste. Nothing wrong with that, and it does sound like you might prefer a more solid state sound.


 
 So happens in my Schitt Pile lies a Vali. Soundwise it's not that far from a SS amp. Firstly it's a hybrid and the tube section isn't big on distortion. It's cleaner than many realize. That said, I will admit to preferring a nice quiet, clean SS amp.
 When an amp's impedance rises when using a planar it forms an attenuator with the planar's resistive nature. So for the most part you lose volume or lessen the delivery of power but don't have the tonal effects more common to dynamic headphones with an uneven impedance vs.frequency relationship.
 Consider the attenuator a volume control and when the impedance varies with frequency the dial turns to different positions for different frequencies. So many times the impedance rises to a peak at some bass frequency, lets say 100 Hz and that's where the attenuation is least so the bass gets boosted at that frequency. Perhaps this is a way of visualizing how this works.


----------



## SpartanX58

ace54 said:


> I wouldn't expect it to have the best sound for $99 my only beef with the Modi is it doesn't have a Dolby/DTS decoder to hear the audio and a cheap China Fiio D07 does and can decode PCM/Dolby and DTS so shame on Schiit
> 
> cant afford Marantz costs an arm and a leg


 
 Why the heck would you like something that decodes dts and dolby? They are lossy multichannel codifications, why running them in a stereo setup?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, you can game and watch movies in Stereo if you like. I personally prefer not do that when wearing headphones. 
  
 I'd like a Schiit device that decodes DTS/AC3 and does DTS Headphone X. Would also pay a good sum for it, just not Beyerdynamic Headzone levels of money.


----------



## ace54

the reason why decoding DTS and most other signals is so you can connect it to new tvs and Blu ray players to watch movies because most movies are recorded Dolby or DTS signal in which case you will get no sound at all from Modi because it is not able to decode mentioned signals this is why I said the Modi is for desktop computers only


----------



## SpartanX58

Check if your tv or blu ray player has the option to send PCM only, even my older DVD players have it...


----------



## Jam Boy

Got the Vali last weekend to replace a Rolls HA43 Pro. 

I was disappointed with the initial listen, because I didn't read up enough and know I had to wait for the tubes to get properly warm. Boy, what a difference that made! Very happy with this little amp.


----------



## the Ortherion

Schiit Vali vs the Little Dot Mk II to power a pair of Sennheiser HD560 Ovation II 300Ohm?


----------



## koiloco

I don't own a Vali but recently listened to one driving my HD800.  I must say that I am 100% impressed at what this amp can do as far as SQ for so little $.  Wow...


----------



## JHern

shinnbone said:


> Hi JHern, shouldn't something like the below work?
> 
> http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/shop/ProductDetail.asp?Item=656%5EAC16V1A%5E%5E
> 
> Edit: Of course, the tips need to match, and regulated/unregulated may be another thing to consider. But I thought maybe you can find an adapter you can use in Japan, rather than getting a voltage transformer. Just a thought. Maybe I'm way off.


 


jimmers said:


> Looks OK to me (Vali consumption only 8W), being AC regulated/unregulated doesn't come in to it, ask Schiit if specs OK (maybe they'll sell you a Vali without adaptor for a discount
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, didn't see this until now, the replies were channeled into my spam folder somehow. When I asked the Schiit tech they specifically said I would need a step-up transformer...if powering the Schiit amp were so simple as buying a different AC power supply, they probably would have said so when I asked...no? I just don't want a step-up transformer and then another boxy AC US voltage converter on top of it cluttering up my power strips...this is simply unacceptable (we don't have an infinite amount of space to work with here in Tokyo, and I HATE clutter).


----------



## jimmers

jhern said:


> Sorry, didn't see this until now, the replies were channeled into my spam folder somehow. When I asked the Schiit tech they specifically said I would need a step-up transformer...if powering the Schiit amp were so simple as buying a different AC power supply, they probably would have said so when I asked...no? I just don't want a step-up transformer and then another boxy AC US voltage converter on top of it cluttering up my power strips...this is simply unacceptable (we don't have an infinite amount of space to work with here in Tokyo, and I HATE clutter).


 
  




  
 Any 16VAC 500mA plus plug pack would be fine (with the correct size plug to fit the socket).
 I'm sure such things are available in Japan for the local market, yes?
 So try to get the Vali without plug pack if you can and save cost and postage.
 I have no idea why the Schiit "tech" would say otherwise, I would like to see his reply to you, can you post it?
  
  
 From Australian distributor (for 240Volt supply):
  
 "Power Supply: “wall wart” style 16VAC transformer, ...
 ...Power Consumption: 8W"
  
 No mention of step-down transformer - just a local spec plug pack.
  
 EDIT: Makes kind of angry, support like that from the manufacturer.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone have the Lyr 2 and can compare with the Vali?  Hopefully with LCD-2 Fazor.


----------



## hekeli

jimmers said:


> So try to get the Vali without plug pack if you can and save cost and postage.
> I have no idea why the Schiit "tech" would say otherwise, I would like to see his reply to you, can you post it?


 
  
 Eh why would you think Schiit would do any hassly "custom deals"? Do you think they would discount a $10 from AC adaptor (their sale price) which costs them probably $1-2? It's probably good chunk of profit from the whole sale. Postage is probably the same regardless of the small weight difference and precalculated. NOT to mention the horror that would ensure when they give green light for people to buy any adapters they want. Probably half of them would get a wrong DC adaptor, blow Vali to pieces, demand money back and rant on forums. I suggest reading the Schiit story to see how they operate..


----------



## jimmers

hekeli said:


> Eh why would you think Schiit would do any hassly "custom deals"?


 
 I didn't, it was just a stir, perhaps I should have appended a smiley face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  


hekeli said:


> . I suggest reading the Schiit story to see how they operate...





> ... Probably half of them would get a wrong DC adaptor, blow Vali to pieces


 
 I have.
  
 Perhaps they should expand their range of Chinese wall warts to include one for the Japanese market . (USA, EURO, UK and AUS are catered for...).
  
 EDIT:
 Hopefully Schiit designed the power supply regulation in the Vali to tolerate a reasonable over-voltage and be immune (not harmed, not working ) if fed low AC voltage or DC; basic design Schiit.


----------



## indieroll

So I was fiddling with the one of the tubes and the adhesive to the black foam peel off and now it wont go back down. What should I use to keep it down?


----------



## swannie007

indieroll said:


> So I was fiddling with the one of the tubes and the adhesive to the black foam peel off and now it wont go back down. What should I use to keep it down?




An ugly woman!


----------



## AudioMorph

Would this amp be too noisy for a pair of Grado SR80e's, I am looking to get an amp soon and I think the sonic signature of this amp would pair well with my phones. Has anybody had experience pairing this amp with Grados? I am also considering the magni, but I have read that it sounds bright and that is not what I am looking for to pair with the Grados.


----------



## trentrosa

Would anyone be interested in a power supply unit encased in the small schiit chassis (to match vali/magni/etc.), offered as an upgrade to the wall wart supplied with the small chassis Schiit units? One could stack a piece of their Schiit on this PSU, and ditch the wall wart for a possible better sq. Doesn't seem like that bad an idea to me.


----------



## jimmers

trentrosa said:


> Would anyone be interested in a power supply unit encased in the small schiit chassis (to match vali/magni/etc.), offered as an upgrade to the wall wart supplied with the small chassis Schiit units? One could stack a piece of their Schiit on this PSU, and ditch the wall wart for a possible better sq. Doesn't seem like that bad an idea to me.


 
 Seeing the 16VAC from the wall wart is regulated internally to 60V (plate), 26V(SS buffer), and 1.2V(heater) a replacement in a box would either be as simple as the wall wart (not an upgrade) or rather complicated and necessitate a multi-pin connector and the modification of the Vali's internal power.
 So unless you just want to pay way more just for the pretties ... or want to see how high you can stack Schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (Take the cases apart and get them plated?)


----------



## StanD

trentrosa said:


> Would anyone be interested in a power supply unit encased in the small schiit chassis (to match vali/magni/etc.), offered as an upgrade to the wall wart supplied with the small chassis Schiit units? One could stack a piece of their Schiit on this PSU, and ditch the wall wart for a possible better sq. Doesn't seem like that bad an idea to me.


 
 Other than aesthetics, there is nothing to be gained. This wall wart is not a noisy switching supply.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

sooooo i get the Vali and use it with the Modi for my K712's. I was happy with this set up and i was ok with the slight ringing whenever you plug the headphones into the amp (its understandable). Now i have had the amp for about 3 months and the ringing now keeps getting louder and louder until it stays at  pretty audible level as i listen to music. the only way i seem to stop this is by turning it off, and then turning it back on. if i turn it off, take the headphone out of the jack, turn Vali back on and then put the jack back in i wont even hear a ring at all, its the weirdest thing... anyways it doesnt always stop it. I am getting frustrated.... anyone have any tips? i read earlier about opening it up and pressing the tubes down or doing something with the pads ect. Anyone recommend that?


----------



## jbarrentine

Send it for service. This happened to me as well.


----------



## audidym

Ordered Vali for my DT880 600 Ohms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Currently using Fiio E09k/Modi Combo ..serves well,but wanted to try Hybrid Amp.


----------



## elwappo99

jbarrentine said:


> Send it for service. This happened to me as well.


 
  
 Sorry I don't recall reading any updates on the 'tube boners'. Did schiit make a more permanent solution?


----------



## NinjaHamster

elwappo99 said:


> Sorry I don't recall reading any updates on the 'tube boners'. Did schiit make a more permanent solution?


 
  
 Yes.  They now glue a photo of Hillary Clinton to the internal top chassis of the Vali. No more tube erection problems.


----------



## StanD

ninjahamster said:


> Yes.  They now glue a photo of Hillary Clinton to the internal top chassis of the Vali. No more tube erection problems.


 
 The picture has a caption, "Good on'ya." *sarcasm*
 It's either that or the Bunyip.


----------



## elwappo99

ninjahamster said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry I don't recall reading any updates on the 'tube boners'. Did schiit make a more permanent solution?
> ...


 
  
 I dunno what you're talking about.


----------



## kfotheringham

bunnynamedfrank said:


> sooooo i get the Vali and use it with the Modi for my K712's. I was happy with this set up and i was ok with the slight ringing whenever you plug the headphones into the amp (its understandable). Now i have had the amp for about 3 months and the ringing now keeps getting louder and louder until it stays at  pretty audible level as i listen to music. the only way i seem to stop this is by turning it off, and then turning it back on. if i turn it off, take the headphone out of the jack, turn Vali back on and then put the jack back in i wont even hear a ring at all, its the weirdest thing... anyways it doesnt always stop it. I am getting frustrated.... anyone have any tips? i read earlier about opening it up and pressing the tubes down or doing something with the pads ect. Anyone recommend that?


 
  
 out of curiosity:
  
 Is the ringing you mention above the exact same as the ringing (microphonics - constant  tiiiiiiiiiing) when you plug HP in the headphone jack, or tap on the volume control?
  
 Or does this ringing sound different, and gets worse/better when you put your hand over the top of the Vali?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

The sound is that constant pinggggg that you hear that is usually slight, but the sound in mine seems to have gotten worse. It's Not that ringing in and out sound when you tap on it, or when you plug the HP in;Its that constant hiss that is usually just slightly noticeable for me (me as in using the K712's with Vali). To answer your other question (and thanks for trying to help btw) i don't see any difference holding my hand over top of it or not. I am listening to them while i type this out, and i started to get that higher hiss/ping sound in only the left ear cup. I put my hand over top of the vali for a half minute and didnt see a noticeable difference. I turned the vali off, took the HP jack out, gave it a couple seconds and then turned the vali back on and put the HP back in. It rings out a little, and then its dead silent. I start to listen to music and the hiss comes back gradually but its not nearly as high when  i first started listening. I dont know why sometimes that works and sometimes it doesnt. This all gets super annoying when i am gaming lol.


----------



## kfotheringham

Understand the frustration.
  
 Let me walk back from what I have found, compare ,.. and see if we can get you moving in some direction to alleviate.
  
 In my case, this ringing (but not the tiiiiing) seemed to oscillate in some manner after heating up at the mains, and most definitely became more/less prominent when placing my hand over the amp itself.
  
 This is a characteristic of RF inference that this amp seems to be prone too ( tube amps in general.. many cases, and not just the VALI). In my case it was the right channel. Annoying as heck and I feel your pain!! It almost becomes obsession to fix.
  
 At first, I tried RF clamps over the RCA cables which seemed to fix the issue initially, but sometime later it came back and clamping made no difference. At this point I`m pulling hair out (little left), but know that moving my hand over the VALI changes this noise, so fully aware it`s RF inference (I was an RF engineer in a past life).
  
 In the end, I came to realise that the VALI was in between a cordless DECT phone, and IP phone (wireless) coupled with a few other walwart transformers at the mains outlet (Others have reported that dimmer switches have caused similar interference) and that probably wasn`t a good idea considering the weakness of this type of device.
  
 Disconnecting the Amp from DAC (or any source) produced the same noise, so i knew it was isolated to the amp circuit.
  
 Moving the power transformer and unit  to a different mains at least 2 metres away from wireless devices and other walwart's has completely cured my issue, and I have a silent background with no hiss/tiiiiing.
  
  
 If you are reporting the same tiiiing as microphonics but louder on one channel, perhaps it`s a faulty tube? (if none of the above helps)


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

kfotheringham said:


> Understand the frustration.
> 
> Let me walk back from what I have found, compare ,.. and see if we can get you moving in some direction to alleviate.
> 
> ...


 
 i am definitely going to try and see if moving the unit around will change this. i never thought to do that, but also never knew half the stuff you talked about in regards to RF clamps, difference in moving my hand over the device, ect.... so thank you for that! i will have to figure out my set up firs to see what would make the most sense to move "what" where.... I have a ps3 and xbox 360 hooked up to a tv, and their internet is through wire, not wifi. my laptop (in the same room) is also through wire for internet. I have an AV receiver hooked to tv and that does use wifi... even though the devices are not using wfi (except the AV receiver) will they still affect the Vali since they are still "on", or do i need to turn their respective wifi's off when connected directly through Cat 5 wire? last thing, does the wall wart it self need to be away from all that or is the vali or both? and even though i have wire spaghetti all through my living room its good to know that it will at least cut down on the interference of the Vali. thanks for any more answers you give me if you have time!


----------



## jgreen16

ninjahamster said:


> Yes.  They now glue a photo of Hillary Clinton to the internal top chassis of the Vali. No more tube erection problems.


----------



## kfotheringham

Assuming you have similar issue, the easiest way to find out which device is "interfering", would be to isolate the VALI from your sources (disconnect from DAC/sound card etc), but leave the RCA cables connected at that back of the amp and put your headphones on.
  
 The RCA cables left in place on the VALI effectively act like antenna, so you will hear the inductive interference. Kind of like a radio for noise , so move it around sources like your router/other devices and listen for noise.
  
 No background noise/hiss/oscillation would suggest no interference. Mine is complete silence now.
  
 With respect to your question on the walwart. Good question! I never bothered to isolate further when I realised what was going on, and moved both at same time since both were in a hot zone. Your ears will tell you.
  
 What I did notice was that when using my Fidelio X1`s, I could hear the interference very clearly through the headphones. When I used a demo pair of Sennheiser HD700`s, it was much quieter and not so apparent (but their nonetheless). Not sure if this was related to impedance (150 Ohm vs. 30 Ohm) or other, but it was surprising to audibly hear the contrast.
  
 Your issue could also be none of the aforementioned, and you possibly have a defective unit.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

kfotheringham said:


> Assuming you have similar issue, the easiest way to find out which device is "interfering", would be to isolate the VALI from your sources (disconnect from DAC/sound card etc), but leave the RCA cables connected at that back of the amp and put your headphones on.
> 
> The RCA cables left in place on the VALI effectively act like antenna, so you will hear the inductive interference. Kind of like a radio for noise , so move it around sources like your router/other devices and listen for noise.
> 
> ...


 

 wow i just moved the wall wart to another receptacle  and i am hearing a MAJOR improvement.... i dont hear anything at all. Thank you for telling me about this, i was going to send it in.


----------



## kfotheringham

Glad it helped.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

I've been using the vali for around 8 weeks now and really happy with it. Powers my akg q701s very nice along with the mixamp pro for gaming.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> I've been using the vali for around 8 weeks now and really happy with it. Powers my akg q701s very nice along with the mixamp pro for gaming.



I agree... I have the volume nob on the Pro in the middle and turn the Vali up to about 12'oclock and its great. I recommend it for anyone who wants to pair it both with the K712's as well


----------



## audidym

audidym said:


> Ordered Vali for my DT880 600 Ohms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Received Vali today and really enjoying the Tube like sound. Serial No:2257 -> Ringing for like 10 sec and goes silent. The whole unit(Volume knob included) is getting warm pretty quickly. I think it's normal & expected.


----------



## betula

audidym said:


> Received Vali today and really enjoying the Tube like sound. Serial No:2257 -> Ringing for like 10 sec and goes silent. The whole unit(Volume knob included) is getting warm pretty quickly. I think it's normal & expected.


 
 Yes, it is normal. 
 Mine is No: 0693


----------



## jeffritz

Currently looking @ the Vali for my first tube amp. I'm rocking HD-600 and SR80e for HP's
  
 I listen to all types of music and I mean all. Ill go from Daft Punk, Bill Withers, Flatt & Scruggs, Dio, to Richard Wagner in a single sitting.
 For the price of the Vali @ 119 can anyone make a recommendation on any other entry level tube amps @ a simalar price I should be looking into?
  
 Basically want to start exploring the world of tubes and looking for advise or otherwise.....
  
 Currently have Biforst uber & Asgard 2 Schiit stack as my desktop rig.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## RestoredSparda

jeffritz said:


> Currently looking @ the Vali for my first tube amp. I'm rocking HD-600 and SR80e for HP's
> 
> I listen to all types of music and I mean all. Ill go from Daft Punk, Bill Withers, Flatt & Scruggs, Dio, to Richard Wagner in a single sitting.
> For the price of the Vali @ 119 can anyone make a recommendation on any other entry level tube amps @ a simalar price I should be looking into?
> ...




Vali is the right choice. I own a bifrost uber and lyr2 which I use with HE560. I was planning on selling my HD600 untill I tried them with the Vali. Now I have a dragonfly 1.2 with the Vali and HD 600 combo. Prefer the HD600 with Vali even more than with the Lyr 2. It really is a special match. I wasnt a believer in synergy until hearing the Vali with the Senn.


----------



## richbass

The Project Ember is also a nice competition to the Vali 2. Anyone compared it with V2 yet?


----------



## Billheiser

I also have a HD600 and a Vali.  Excellente!  I don't know of another amp that's competitive with it at that price (i compared it only with a finite number of other amps).


----------



## jeffritz

For 120 bucks that's what I figured.
  
 Still have the bifrost uber? Happy with it?
  
 I actually have the Modi but the uber should be here tomorrow.


----------



## Billheiser

jeffritz said:


> For 120 bucks that's what I figured.
> 
> Still have the bifrost uber? Happy with it?
> 
> I actually have the Modi but the uber should be here tomorrow.


 
 Super happy with the Bifrost Uber.  I have that one running into a Valhalla 2, powering HD600 and others.  I have the Vali system in another room, running the HD600 almost exclusively.


----------



## betula

+1 for HD600 and Vali combo


----------



## sling5s

Having the Lyr 2 for the LCD-2F, I sold the Vali because it just didn't have enough power for the LCD-2F and I only used it for the JH13pro (with impedance adaptor) but I kind of miss the Vali even with the Geek Out which I got for the JH13pro. 
 There is a liveliness, musicality and tone/timbre that is special with certain headphones.  Maybe I'll wait for the Vali 2.


----------



## Delirious Lab

betula said:


> +1 for HD600 and Vali combo


 
 Make that +2... I just ordered a Vali, can't wait to hear it with the HD-600.  I'll post my impressions here.


----------



## jeffritz

Well just got my Vali in over the weekend and happy to report the combo with HD600 is amazing.
  
 Hard for me to explain but Ill try.
  
 Compared to the Asgard 2 the Vali adds a richness to the sound. Just sounds more refined with certain musical instruments. The bass sounds more impactful and personal and the highs are smoother and less harsh in a good way.
  
 Overall the combo has a synergy that is just unmatched for a $120 dollar amp just like RestoredSparta explains.
  
 What an incredible value.
  
 Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## jexby

wow you guys make me feel so sad now that I've sold both my HD600 and Vali.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 indeed it's a wonderful combo..... but couldn't justify having that pairing and HE-560+Lyr2. 
 headphone gluttony is not good. ha!


----------



## Wallboy

I've noticed that my tubes keep coming off the pads and this seems to be the culprit of a steady high pitch noise that starts off quiet and then gets louder as time passes until I power off and back on the amp which fixes it. What can I use to keep the tubes from coming off their pads? Any certain type of tape?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Bump


----------



## jimmers

wallboy said:


> I've noticed that my tubes keep coming off the pads and this seems to be the culprit of a steady high pitch noise that starts off quiet and then gets louder as time passes until I power off and back on the amp which fixes it. What can I use to keep the tubes from coming off their pads? Any certain type of tape?


 
 It has been mentioned earlier in the thread, it would seem the best method is to gently bend the leads so that the tubes naturally lay at or below foam top level (I believe Schiit incorporated this into Vali production).
  
 (Search thread for "bend leads")


----------



## bigbenrfan99

I just used my Vali with my Grado SR325is for the first time in a few weeks.  I noticed some intermittent noise that I have never heard before, and I have isolated the problem to the Vali.  I have always heard a constant hissing noise that hasn't bothered me because it isn't noticeable with music playing.  This noise, however, is occasionally noticeable.  It sort of sounds like the interference noise that you hear when you plug sensitive headphones directly into a computer's headphone jack, if anyone knows what that sounds like.  Has anyone else experienced something like this?  What should I do?  I bought the Vali used here last December, so I doubt that I could get it repaired/replaced by Schiit under a warranty.


----------



## bigbenrfan99

Apparently, it was my cell phone that was causing interference with the Vali.  I guess I never previously had my phone close to the Vali when I was using it.


----------



## im533

BUMP


----------



## im533

Quote: 





wallboy said:


> I've noticed that my tubes keep coming off the pads and this seems to be the culprit of a steady high pitch noise that starts off quiet and then gets louder as time passes until I power off and back on the amp which fixes it. What can I use to keep the tubes from coming off their pads? Any certain type of tape?


 
 I have the same problem, and I posted my solution about this some month ago
  
 I'm using tube damper rings to push down the tubes.
  
 ========================
 I'm using tube damper rings to push down the tubes onto the pads. I put the damper rings vertically on the tubes and reassembled the chassis. (It's somewhat difficult to reassemble the chassis with rings on tubes.) After using damper rings, the ringing is much reduced though it still exists. It's much better.
 ========================


----------



## skyline315

How many of you are using the rubber feet that come with the amp?
  
 So far, this little guy has exceeded my expectations.  Great pairing with the HE-400i.


----------



## Billheiser

skyline315 said:


> How many of you are using the rubber feet that come with the amp?
> 
> So far, this little guy has exceeded my expectations.  Great pairing with the HE-400i.



Sure, using the supplied feet. I also put some squishy Sorbothane feet on too, to see if it would reduce the initial ringing. Didn't hurt, but not sure it made a positive difference.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Got it at last!
  
 I got the ringing on the right channel for maybe 15 seconds after I plugged in my 'phones.  No issue afterwards, I even gave it a few knocks and not a sound of complaint.  This thing looks solidly built, I like its weight.
  
 First impressions (with HD600): Very nice highs, almost angelic.  I feel like my ears will never get tired.
  
 AC/DC rocks hard with this.  This is my first experience with tubes, now I'm hearing what they can do to electric guitars... Yummm.
  
 I've had it on for only 20 minutes.  Vali is now to the touch, and the warmth is getting to the sound, too - soundstage opening up nicely.  Pink Floyd's Great Gig in the Sky + Vali + HD600 + a glass of Leffe Blonde + Friday evening = a wonderful start to the weekend...
  
 More impressions to come later...


----------



## Billheiser

delirious lab said:


> Got it at last!
> 
> I got the ringing on the right channel for maybe 15 seconds after I plugged in my 'phones.  No issue afterwards, I even gave it a few knocks and not a sound of complaint.  This thing looks solidly built, I like its weight.
> 
> ...


 

 +1, Vali & HD600!


----------



## Delirious Lab

On to classical music... Right now I'm listening to my favourite Wagner CD, that is Act 1 of Die Walküre by the Staatskapelle Dresden (cond. Janowski).
  
 Much as I love this recording, it has always sounded somewhat grainy to me, and Jessye Norman seemed rather shrieky.  The Vali/HD600 combo has easily smoothed out these issues, which I had (rightly or wrongly) attributed to the growing pains of early 1980's digital recording.
  
 Wagner and tubes.  Hmmm...


----------



## betula

billheiser said:


> +1, Vali & HD600!


 
 +1


----------



## MohawkUS

Does anyone else have a constant static with this amplifier? I am getting some static regardless of volume level, about 30db loud.


----------



## Billheiser

mohawkus said:


> Does anyone else have a constant static with this amplifier? I am getting some static regardless of volume level, about 30db loud.



Nope. Maybe your cell phone very close to it?


----------



## swannie007

I have found that the Vali is quite sensitive to any other transmitter type electronics in close proximity to it. Examples would be a cell phone, wireless modems, etc. Since relocating my Vali away from these sources it has become a lot less noisy and has a much more quite background. It is still not absolutely quite but mine is a very early production model and has the "horny" tubes that stand up.  I just don't use IEM's with it as I couldn't be bothered to send it back to Schiit as I would miss it too much as I use it almost every day. It is quite sublime with the Modi DAC fed from my iMac with high res files and listening with my HE 400i headphones. AC/DC has never sounded this good!
 Enjoy the music. 
 P.S. I must mention that when I met Jason at the Head-Fi meet in March, he offered to sort it out with a little mod they have but I never sent him my mailing info so it's my bad and NOT a reflection of the outstanding Schiit customer service.


----------



## ejwiles

Are you using low impedance cans?


----------



## swannie007

I use both low and high impedance cans with the Vali, it doesn't seem to care. My favourite cans with the Vali are HE400i, Q701, HD650 and T90. They all sound great with the Vali. I believe that a well designed and engineered amp doesn't really care too much about the headphone impedance and should work well with most headphones as the Vali DOES! I am a music enthusiast, not a bloody engineer so the gear I buy should be able to be used with a wide variety of headphones and the Vali can be used this way and I am very happy with it and highly recommend it to both "newbies" as well as "old salts". The gear just works. This is as it should be. I am definitely a Schiit fanboy because those guys do it right IMO.


----------



## bigbenrfan99

mohawkus said:


> Does anyone else have a constant static with this amplifier? I am getting some static regardless of volume level, about 30db loud.


 
 As previous replies have suggested, it is likely one of two possibilities.  If you are using low-impedance headphones, you will hear a low-level constant hissing noise when no music is playing.  I hear this with my Grado SR325is, but not with my K612, HD600, DT880, or HE400.  Alternatively, if it is an intermittent interference-type noise that may be audible even while music is playing, it is likely being caused by electronic interference.  For me, this occurred when my cell phone was within about a foot of the Vali.


----------



## StanD

bigbenrfan99 said:


> As previous replies have suggested, it is likely one of two possibilities.  If you are using low-impedance headphones, you will hear a low-level constant hissing noise when no music is playing.  I hear this with my Grado SR325is, but not with my K612, HD600, DT880, or HE400.  Alternatively, if it is an intermittent interference-type noise that may be audible even while music is playing, it is likely being caused by electronic interference.  For me, this occurred when my cell phone was within about a foot of the Vali.


 
 The determining factor for hearing noise when using the Vali is not just impedance but also the sensitivity of the headphone or IEM. My HE-500's are low impedance yet one will not the Vali's noise as these are not considered to be sensitive headphones.


----------



## bigbenrfan99

stand said:


> The determining factor for hearing noise when using the Vali is not just impedance but also the sensitivity of the headphone or IEM. My HE-500's are low impedance yet one will not the Vali's noise as these are not considered to be sensitive headphones.


 
 You're right.  I forgot to mention sensitivity.  Like I said, I didn't hear the hissing noise with the HE400, which has relatively low impedance, but I do hear the noise with the SR325is, which is much more sensitive.


----------



## skyline315

I'll second the pairing with the 400i.  There's some really nice synergy going on here.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Darn it, but Vali + HD600 is an addictive combo.  I've been having some Sibelius symphonies and tone poems for the last three hours, it's way past my bedtime and I'm unable to stop listening.  I know I will feel like Schiit in the morning...


----------



## rovopio

is there anybody here that uses grado?
  
 i have the prestige series low-end model, grado sr80(e)to be exact... im having difficulty deciding between magni solid state and vali hybrid tube...
  
 i've never heard tube sounds, so i dont know how that sound really. anybody have opinions on this...?
  
  
 by the way, im using fiio e10k usb dac/amp at the moment. since grado sr80 is very efficient to begin with... will i notice a change from the <$100 fiio e10k to a magni / vali?
  
 ps: i have to pay 45% import tax to buy schiit product. so.... there's no way i can buy both and try even if i return it, it's better value to just keep both, which i cant afford...
  
 so,,, any opinions?
  
 cheers


----------



## rmullins08

I've got the SR325e with both a Magni and a Vali (use the magni on the PC, Vali with the turntable).  They are both terrific, and the Vali is still a very clean sound with the tubes.


----------



## bigbenrfan99

rovopio said:


> is there anybody here that uses grado?
> 
> i have the prestige series low-end model, grado sr80(e)to be exact... im having difficulty deciding between magni solid state and vali hybrid tube...
> 
> ...


 
 I use a Vali with my SR325is, and I really love the combo.  I don't have golden ears, and even I can easily notice an improvement over my Fiio E11, which I'm guessing is about as good as the E10's amp.  Specifically, the bass is a little more present (without bass boost on the E11) and fuller, and the soundstage is clearly larger.  The sound has a little more impact and weight with the Vali.  The only downside is the constant hissing, which is not noticeable while music is playing (except during very quiet sections).  I haven't heard the Magni (or any other amps for that matter).


----------



## Enginigmatic

I'm trying the Vali + Modi in comparison to a Fiio E09K + E17.
  
 I prefer the sound from the Vali + Modi combo; in fact I want to say that I love it. In conjunction with my newly acquired NAD VISO HP50, it's like I'm rediscovering music I've been listening to for years. Music is hitting me with a power, presence, and clarity with which I am not familiar.
  
 However, I wasn't prepared for the nuances of a tube amp. A lack of research on my part. Just tapping the amp makes an audible *ding* sound in my headphones. There's also a lot of background hiss. It's not perceivable when sound is coming through the headphones but I usually have my headphones on constantly when I'm at my desk, so it gets to be kind of tiring. My Fiio E09K also has a bit of a hiss, but it scales based on the volume where as with the Vali it is consistent irrespective of volume.
  
 This is kind of a rock and a hard place for me. I'm sure there's a lot of interference in the general realm of my desk; what with a WiFi router and my cell phone in close proximity. I can't really isolate the amp from these sources without some critical thought and rearrangement.
  
 This setup seems great if I were using it exclusively for dedicated audio listening away from everything else. I'm not sure if I would be better off with the Magni and I'm getting the impression that it wouldn't sound as nice. I also don't get the EQ features of the Fiio E17, although I must say I actually disliked the overall bulk of the E17 sticking out of the top of the E09K -- just one more thing to trip over in some kind of way.


----------



## ProfessorGascan

I'm trying to decide between the Vali and the Bravo Audio Ocean to drive my AKG Q701's.
  
 They're both more or less the same price and I like the fact that the Bravo has a preamp out jack and takes 12au7 tubes as I've got quite a few to roll through it. I've gone through the search but the Bravo doesn't seem to have nearly the following the Vali does. If anyone's tried them both I'd like to hear your feedback.TIA


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I have both, buy the Vali.


----------



## Rossliew

Vali is very, very versatile. Works very well with both low and high impedance cans IMO.


----------



## Rossliew

rovopio said:


> is there anybody here that uses grado?
> 
> i have the prestige series low-end model, grado sr80(e)to be exact... im having difficulty deciding between magni solid state and vali hybrid tube...
> 
> ...


 
 Am listening with the Vali/SR225 (woodied) combo now as I type. The typical Grado's aggressive sound is still present but with vocals, there is a slight lushness with a very pleasant reverb to the tone. With the Magni, you still get a very dynamic sound with the Grados but they lack the organic hint of tubes in the overall tonality. Depends what you prefer really.


----------



## jgreen16

Just picked up a Vali from the amplification F/S thread, and so far I'm very happy. It's my first foray into the tube world, albeit a hybrid one. Compares very favorably with the Asgard 2 I previously owned.  
  
 I'll post up some further thoughts once I've been able to give it an extended listen. I'll also be able to compare it to the hp out on my vintage Sansui AU-717 vintage integrated amp.


----------



## fabiobueno

rovopio said:


> is there anybody here that uses grado?
> 
> i have the prestige series low-end model, grado sr80(e)to be exact... im having difficulty deciding between magni solid state and vali hybrid tube...
> 
> ...


 
  
 My Grado SR125i sounds very good with the Vali.
  
 I also have an O2, which, as far as I know, sounds almost the same as the Magni... In my opinion Vali sounds much better. But, as the user Rossliew above said, depends on preferences.
  
 (Btw the import tax here is 60% over the product+shipping prices... but I still think it was VERY worth.)


----------



## Wallboy

jimmers said:


> It has been mentioned earlier in the thread, it would seem the best method is to gently bend the leads so that the tubes naturally lay at or below foam top level (I believe Schiit incorporated this into Vali production).
> 
> (Search thread for "bend leads")


 
 Was going to attempt to do this today as both were off their pads again, but the leads seem so thin that I'm scared I'll pull them off lol. To those that bended them, what did you use? Plyers? Did you bend them near the tube or the board?


----------



## elwappo99

darinf posted some pictures a bit back which showed how schiit does it.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/3765#post_10474289
  
 Anyone know what the new pads are made of? I purchased the Vali on day one and it does ring quite a bit. I'd like to help it in any way possible. 
  
  


darinf said:


> Apparently my repaired Vali is nowhere to be found. So they sent me a new one overnight.
> 
> This one rings a LOT less that my previous one. There is still a tiny bit of ringing, but nothing like my original unit which was one of the early shipping units.
> 
> As promised, here's the photos of the tubes inside.


----------



## jjacq

I'm currently waiting for mine to be shipped but curious, what sub-$100-150 cans are good with the Vali? I already have a HE-400i but I'd like to get another can to change things up a bit. No grados, or beyers, I'm just not a fan of either's sound sig.

 Thanks!


----------



## potterpastor

Everything I have is good with the Vali. Try the 15 dollar Koss KTX Pro 1 with the Vali, it's amazing!


----------



## jjacq

potterpastor said:


> Everything I have is good with the Vali. Try the 15 dollar Koss KTX Pro 1 with the Vali, it's amazing!


 
  
 Thanks, any recommendations for over the ear?


----------



## potterpastor

I LOVE my Sennheiser HD 600 and 650 with the Vali. The Momentum sounds good with it also. So does the HD 598.


----------



## Rudiger

I have some hiss with momentum.


----------



## ejwiles

Sony MDRV6. A classic, and only $85.





jjacq said:


> I'm currently waiting for mine to be shipped but curious, what sub-$100-150 cans are good with the Vali? I already have a HE-400i but I'd like to get another can to change things up a bit. No grados, or beyers, I'm just not a fan of either's sound sig.
> 
> 
> Thanks!




Sony MDRV6. A classic and only $85.


----------



## Billheiser

jjacq said:


> I'm currently waiting for mine to be shipped but curious, what sub-$100-150 cans are good with the Vali? I already have a HE-400i but I'd like to get another can to change things up a bit. No grados, or beyers, I'm just not a fan of either's sound sig.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Consider the impedance and efficiency of any cans you will use on the Vali. I'm a fan of it but it's best with high impedance headphones. I tried a grado on it and the turn-on "ting" and the background hiss was pronounced. However, Vali is perfect w my 300 ohm Senns.
I see posts above that say they get good results with their Grados. Good for them, but didn't work out for me.


----------



## nway

Between the Vali and Magni, which would better complement my cans?
 • HD 600
 • Fidelio X1
 • ATH-M50
 • MDR-V6
  
 I'd greatly appreciate feedback from anyone who's tried any of these cans with the Vali and/or Magni.
  
 I'm also curious if any E12 owners could give their thoughts on how the E12 compares to the Vali and/or Magni, with respect to sound quality. I'm guessing that for the E12, I'd be paying a premium for portability, correct? Would I be right to assume the Vali offers better sound quality than the E12, for the same price?


----------



## jjacq

billheiser said:


> Consider the impedance and efficiency of any cans you will use on the Vali. I'm a fan of it but it's best with high impedance headphones. I tried a grado on it and the turn-on "ting" and the background hiss was pronounced. However, Vali is perfect w my 300 ohm Senns.
> I see posts above that say they get good results with their Grados. Good for them, but didn't work out for me.


 
  
 Yeah I'm aware of that, I've read somewhere on this thread where someone had said that the higher the better but they only recommended 50-75 ohm cans. My 400i is 35 ohms which may be a bit of an issue but I have yet to hear it when my Vali arrives. I'm assuming you are talking about the HD650 having 300 ohms?


----------



## skyline315

jjacq said:


> Yeah I'm aware of that, I've read somewhere on this thread where someone had said that the higher the better but they only recommended 50-75 ohm cans. My 400i is 35 ohms which may be a bit of an issue but I have yet to hear it when my Vali arrives. I'm assuming you are talking about the HD650 having 300 ohms?


 
 Man cannot judge by ohms alone.
  
 The 400i is a great match with the Vali.  Enjoy.


----------



## nway

billheiser said:


> Consider the impedance and efficiency of any cans you will use on the Vali. I'm a fan of it but it's best with high impedance headphones. I tried a grado on it and the turn-on "ting" and the background hiss was pronounced. However, Vali is perfect w my 300 ohm Senns.
> I see posts above that say they get good results with their Grados. Good for them, but didn't work out for me.


 

 Interesting. This thread has several accounts of the Vali working well with the Fidelio X1, which is only 30 ohms. Conversely, someone just told me that the Vali hums with the M50, which is 38 ohms. What accounts for the difference? Should I save myself the uncertainty and just go for the Magni? I'd like to get the Vali for my HD 600, but I also want to be able to use it with my other cans.


----------



## rmullins08

I'm happy with my vali with my grade sr325e's which are 32ohms.  I barely notice the ting as I let it warm up a few minutes before listening.


----------



## skyline315

nway said:


> Interesting. This thread has several accounts of the Vali working well with the Fidelio X1, which is only 30 ohms. Conversely, someone just told me that the Vali hums with the M50, which is 38 ohms. What accounts for the difference? Should I save myself the uncertainty and just go for the Magni? I'd like to get the Vali for my HD 600, but I also want to be able to use it with my other cans.


 
 You can search this thread (or google).  Many reports of the M50/Vali combo being perfectly fine.


----------



## Billheiser

jjacq said:


> Yeah I'm aware of that, I've read somewhere on this thread where someone had said that the higher the better but they only recommended 50-75 ohm cans. My 400i is 35 ohms which may be a bit of an issue but I have yet to hear it when my Vali arrives. I'm assuming you are talking about the HD650 having 300 ohms?


 

 Yes, I use it with the HD600 which is also 300 ohms.


----------



## Daniel4IEM

Apologies if this has already been addressed in the thread but I just received my Vali, which will drive either DT880 (250 ohm) or HD600/650 (whichever I choose).
  
 1. First time owner of headphone amp so looking for advice on cable selection. Is there a noticeable difference in sound quality depending on which Y cable splitters (RCA to headphone jack) one uses? If so, any reccomendations on reasonably priced, good quality cables?
  
 2. I mostly listen to streamed music through Pandora or Spotify on my MacBook Pro. Is there any benefit/need for a DAC or is that just redundant to the sound card?


----------



## Delirious Lab

Get a decent, well-built cable from Radio Shack or Monoprice.  No need to spend more than $20 on a connector.  Anything more should go to your "saving for the next HP or amp" account instead.


----------



## Quake1028

daniel4iem said:


> Apologies if this has already been addressed in the thread but I just received my Vali, which will drive either DT880 (250 ohm) or HD600/650 (whichever I choose).
> 2. I mostly listen to streamed music through Pandora or Spotify on my MacBook Pro. Is there any benefit/need for a DAC or is that just redundant to the sound card?


 
  
 Depends on what sound card you have. If it's the onboard sound from your motherboard or a cheaper card, yes, get a Modi to go with your Vali.


----------



## Daniel4IEM

quake1028 said:


> Depends on what sound card you have. If it's the onboard sound from your motherboard or a cheaper card, yes, get a Modi to go with your Vali.




Yeah just what was included originally with the Mac. So Modi will help SQ on streamed music? 

Thanks!!!


----------



## skyline315

daniel4iem said:


> Yeah just what was included originally with the Mac. So Modi will help SQ on streamed music?
> 
> Thanks!!!


 
 Depends on the quality of the stream...


----------



## ebiscaia

Can somebody record a song passing through Vali and the original one to compare?


----------



## Daniel4IEM

skyline315 said:


> Depends on the quality of the stream...


 
 Thoughts for each of the below?
  
 -Spotify 320 kbps
 -Pandora 64k AAC+  or Pandora One 192kbps
-Tidal lossless FLAC tracks, all encoded at 44.1kHz / 16 bit / 1411 kbps


----------



## dpaton

Lossy - good
 Lossy - worst,  Lossy but better than 64
 LossLess thus closer to original! 
  
 I would try something like mediacoder and get a CD then encode the same song with all the formats listed above and try them for yourself.
  
 Fast and fun with 'phones.


----------



## DACattack

Received my Vali today, which I plan to use at work once my Valhalla 2 arrives. Just for fun I connected it my home system tonight, using my UberBifrost as the DAC, and listened to a couple of albums with my HD 800s. Stunned at how good it sounded and how well it drove the headphones. Incredibly capable little amp.


----------



## kothganesh

Dacattack,
  
 that's my work set up as well. Very good combo with the HD 800. I also have the Wyrd in the mix.


----------



## reddington

Have zeroed down on the Vali to power my HD 650. But from what I read the DAC seems to make a lot of difference on how the Vali performs.

I own a dragonfly 1.2 which is often touted as warm in nature. Anyone here has any first hand experience pairing the Vali with the Dragonfly 1.2?


----------



## Billheiser

reddington said:


> Have zeroed down on the Vali to power my HD 650. But from what I read the DAC seems to make a lot of difference on how the Vali performs.
> 
> I own a dragonfly 1.2 which is often touted as warm in nature. Anyone here has any first hand experience pairing the Vali with the Dragonfly 1.2?



No; but indirectly yes. I have the dragonfly 1.2, and the Vali, on different setups. Like them both, but I have just used the 1.2 inclusive of its built in amp. It's good - no complaints - but I prefer the sound of my Vali when I get home. 
Again, this is not a perfectly direct comparison, so it's of limited help to you.


----------



## reddington

billheiser said:


> No; but indirectly yes. I have the dragonfly 1.2, and the Vali, on different setups. Like them both, but I have just used the 1.2 inclusive of its built in amp. It's good - no complaints - but I prefer the sound of my Vali when I get home.
> Again, this is not a perfectly direct comparison, so it's of limited help to you.




Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate it. Am running my 650s directly off the dragonfly as of now. Can't complain.

Besides I really have no reference point to compare. Never heard the 650 off any other amp.


----------



## Billheiser

reddington said:


> Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate it. Am running my 650s directly off the dragonfly as of now. Can't complain.
> 
> Besides I really have no reference point to compare. Never heard the 650 off any other amp.


 
 That's a good system.  Was listening yesterday to HD600's from the Dragonfly, thumbs up.
  
 I have a temporary hypothesis, for me and my equipment - the amp is more important than the DAC.  Using iPhone & iPod internal DAC into the Vali sounds a bit better to me than the Dragonfly (connected to my laptop, Amarra processing iTunes full resolution library) used as DAC/amp.  Obviously this is based on a limited sample of equipment, but that's my opinion for now.


----------



## jjacq

Have the 400i + the Vali, great bass response that remind me of the LCD-X. But question, are they highs usually a bit rolled off with this amp? Just making sure. Also my NFB 15.32's DAC stage is wonderful with this thing. Now I have a SS and tube amp setup I'm happy with.


----------



## Billheiser

jjacq said:


> Have the 400i + the Vali, great bass response that remind me of the LCD-X. But question, are they highs usually a bit rolled off with this amp? Just making sure. Also my NFB 15.32's DAC stage is wonderful with this thing. Now I have a SS and tube amp setup I'm happy with.


 
 Nice!  In my ears, highs are not rolled off at all. Schiit's own specs say "20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 5Hz-100KHz, -3dB", so that's as straight as can be.


----------



## potterpastor

I do. I had the Vali and my dragonfly 1.2 connected to my laptop.To my ears, it sounded just as good or better with just the Vali. 

I now prefer using the Dragon fly 1.2 with my laptop and my Vali with my Sony receiver.


----------



## reddington

potterpastor said:


> I do. I had the Vali and my dragonfly 1.2 connected to my laptop.To my ears, it sounded just as good or better with just the Vali.
> 
> I now prefer using the Dragon fly 1.2 with my laptop and my Vali with my Sony receiver.




Thanks. How about the Vali being fed off the dragonfly? I mean use Vali as the amp and dragonfly as the DAC.

I mean how much difference does it make with your hps connected just to the dragonfly being compared to the hps connected to the Vali which is connected to the dragonfly.


----------



## potterpastor

I used one of those auxiliary cables where the auxiliary part of the cable was plugged into the dragonfly (which was plugged into my laptop) and the red and white other end of the cable was plugged into the Vali. The headphones were plugged into the Vali. I think that's the set up I tried.

If I were to try it again, I would use a better quality auxiliary cable, that may have made a difference.

But I definitely received the more powerful sounds with the Vali directly connected with my Sony receiver and my iPod touch connected directly to the receivers auxiliary jack. It could've had more to do with the Sony receiver being a more powerful unit than the laptop


----------



## betula

X3 on its own (or as a DAC) + Vali + HD600 = hours of bliss 
 (and yes, a decent auxiliary cable makes quite a big difference)


----------



## Delirious Lab

reddington said:


> Have zeroed down on the Vali to power my HD 650. But from what I read the DAC seems to make a lot of difference on how the Vali performs.
> 
> I own a dragonfly 1.2 which is often touted as warm in nature. Anyone here has any first hand experience pairing the Vali with the Dragonfly 1.2?


 
 I've had Dragonfly → Vali → HD600 as my home gear for the past 10 days... here's the gist of my PM reply to the above, in case it might help others:
  
 To be honest with I have been unable to tell the difference between the Dragonfly and the Fiio E07K which I was previously using (and is now part of my office rig), other than both DACs sound way better than the computer's HP out.  Cleaner sound and better instrument separation.  I would venture to say that with these kind of budget DACs, whatever sonic differences there may be will pale in comparison to the change that a tube amp will bring.
  
 And what a change it is.  Vali with HD600 is a midrange lover's dream.  I don't have golden ears so it's hard for me to describe it, but I especially like the way it renders guitars and vocals - very natural.  To my ears, the DAC that feeds it doesn't make a difference - not in the DF/E07K price range, at least.  (My wallet doesn't even want to know how, say, a Bifrost could slightly improve things.  Unless someone here could guarantee that I would hear a little extra bass oomph and better instrument separation, mayyyybe.  Even then, I feel the $ would be better spent on some qualitatively different cans, e.g. planars, to give me a real change.)
  
 One thing about volume control: with a separate amp, the DF manual says to max out the computer's volume.  Well, I can't do that with Vali.  I listen at fairly low volumes, and there's zero room on the Vali's dial to play with.  Way too loud (I hear that's a common complaint about the DF).  So I keep Vali about 10:00 while I control the volume with the computer's volume control (which actually controls DF's analog volume).  Very convenient.  I never need to go past 50%.  So there is ample power to drive the HD6x0.
  
 So yes, I'm very happy with the DF/Vali pairing.  unless I come into a pile of disposable money, I think I have found my endgame rig.


----------



## Delirious Lab

reddington said:


> Thanks. How about the Vali being fed off the dragonfly? I mean use Vali as the amp and dragonfly as the DAC.
> 
> I mean how much difference does it make with your hps connected just to the dragonfly being compared to the hps connected to the Vali which is connected to the dragonfly.


 
 Re your last question: I just tried my HP600 straight from the Dragonfly (Pink Floyd _The Thin Ice_)... I missed the Vali instantly.   There's a slightly congested feeling to the music, as if DF isn't able to give the cans all the juice they need. Maybe that's the infamous "Sennheiser veil". 
  
 Overall, I get the feeling that Vali has a really good grasp on the music, compared to just the DF.  Better detail and punch.  I don't find this surprising since 1) DF is said to be a better DAC  than amp, and 2) Vali is said to be at its best with the high-impedance Senns.
  
 And there's that tube sound.  OMG Gilmour's solo in _Another Brick in the Wall II_.  It brings out the color in the guitar like nothing else I've heard.


----------



## reddington

delirious lab said:


> Re your last question: I just tried my HP600 straight from the Dragonfly (Pink Floyd _The Thin Ice_)... I missed the Vali instantly.   There's a slightly congested feeling to the music, as if DF isn't able to give the cans all the juice they need. Maybe that's the infamous "Sennheiser veil".
> 
> Overall, I get the feeling that Vali has a really good grasp on the music, compared to just the DF.  Better detail and punch.  I don't find this surprising since 1) DF is said to be a better DAC  than amp, and 2) Vali is said to be at its best with the high-impedance Senns.
> 
> And there's that tube sound.  OMG Gilmour's solo in _Another Brick in the Wall II_.  It brings out the color in the guitar like nothing else I've heard.




Precisely what I was looking for. Thank you. Eagerly waiting for my very own Gilmour bliss.


----------



## Daniel4IEM

I'm currently running new HD650 with the Vali. Source is Spotify premium (320 mbps) through MacBook Pro using onboard DAC. Considering getting the Modi. Thoughts on added value?
  
 I believe the standard recommendation is to max out source volume, in this case Mac. I find under those circumstances my volume on the Vali never goes beyond 9:00, as I apparently have pretty sensitive ears. 
 Do others go with that same approach of maximizing source volume? Is this supposed to yield the cleanest, least distorted signal? Curious about the science behind this.


----------



## Billheiser

daniel4iem said:


> I'm currently running new HD650 with the Vali. Source is Spotify premium (320 mbps) through MacBook Pro using onboard DAC. Considering getting the Modi. Thoughts on added value?
> 
> I believe the standard recommendation is to max out source volume, in this case Mac. I find under those circumstances my volume on the Vali never goes beyond 9:00, as I apparently have pretty sensitive ears.
> Do others go with that same approach of maximizing source volume? Is this supposed to yield the cleanest, least distorted signal? Curious about the science behind this.



The recommendation to run source at max volume is ONLY when it is outputting a digital signal, so that it outputs its full resolution. The opposite applies when outputting an analog signal - because an analog output distorts the most when run at maximum volume. 
So- in your current setup, you have an analog output coming from your computer into the Vali. Set your computer volume anywhere around 40-70%. Then you'll have a cleaner signal into the Vali, and a better range from the Vali volume knob.


----------



## Daniel4IEM

Thank you!!! 
 Given this setup, what are you thoughts on the value of an external DAC, like a Modi?


----------



## Billheiser

daniel4iem said:


> Thank you!!!
> Given this setup, what are you thoughts on the value of an external DAC, like a Modi?



It will help improve your sound. Not by a huge amount, but to an extent people can enjoy and be glad they made the upgrade. Best way to find out out is to try it for yourself. 
I enjoy Spotify subscription at 320 Kbps but I do find "full" resolution files, from ripped cd's, to sound better.


----------



## Phishin Phool

billheiser said:


> It will help improve your sound. Not by a huge amount, but to an extent people can enjoy and be glad they made the upgrade. Best way to find out out is to try it for yourself.
> I enjoy Spotify subscription at 320 Kbps but I do find "full" resolution files, from ripped cd's, to sound better.


 
 Agreed and with a low price point of $100 and easily to sell at near thatif dissatisfied it is a simple cost effective way to see if you can get your music to the next level of enjoyment. YMMV with any DAC seems to be my experience.


----------



## skyline315

daniel4iem said:


> Thank you!!!
> Given this setup, what are you thoughts on the value of an external DAC, like a Modi?


 
 Recommended.
  
 At worst, you don't notice a difference and you can return it.


----------



## reddington

Am getting a Vali but its the US version. I am from India and possibly will need a step down converter.

My question is to Jason and anyone who might me able to help. Is using a step down converter going to be risky for the amp?

It is only temporary and will order a 230v wallwart after a month or so.

Had to get the Vali from Amazon due to very stringent time constraints. Someone is carrying it back for me.

The amps are the same right? Only the adapters are different. Or am I wrong?


----------



## ilreceiver

Does anyone else experience a "pop" in the headphone after about 5 seconds of turning the Vali on? I'm a bit worried that it'll destroy the diaphragm.


----------



## rmullins08

Is it a pop or a click?


----------



## ilreceiver

Could be a click, but some loud sound that shows "the power is on"! Is that normal? I have it in both magni and vali.


----------



## rmullins08

From the vali manual

3 Turn on the switch. The relay will mute Vali’s output for 15-20 seconds, then it will engage with a click.

I definitely notice a click on mine so have never been concerned


----------



## ilreceiver

I see. Thanks buddy!


----------



## ravager

reddington said:


> Am getting a Vali but its the US version. I am from India and possibly will need a step down converter.
> 
> My question is to Jason and anyone who might me able to help. Is using a step down converter going to be risky for the amp?
> 
> ...




When I was stationed in Germany I used a step down transformer to power hi-fi gear with no issues at all. The Vali requires 16 VAC from the wall wart. By stepping down your 240 VAC to 120 VAC that will allow the U.S.Vali's power supply to work just fine. Think of this way, the one you will be getting from Schiit will be stepping down the 240 VAC to 16 VAC (+\-) . Your converter won't harm the Vali at all.


----------



## jimmers

ravager said:


> When I was stationed in Germany I used a step down transformer to power hi-fi gear with no issues at all. The Vali requires 16 VAC from the wall wart. By stepping down your 240 VAC to 120 VAC that will allow the U.S.Vali's power supply to work just fine. Think of this way, the one you will be getting from Schiit will be stepping down the 240 VAC to 16 VAC (+\-) . Your converter won't harm the Vali at all.


 

 I think it would probably cheaper and better to source a 240VAC to 16VAC 8W + wall wart locally, that's what I would do if I needed to.


----------



## reddington

jimmers said:


> I think it would probably cheaper and better to source a 240VAC to 16VAC 8W + wall wart locally, that's what I would do if I needed to.




I think Jason posted once insisting on using the wall wart Schiit provides. He said generic ones might harm the amp.


----------



## jimmers

reddington said:


> I think Jason posted once insisting on using the wall wart Schiit provides. He said generic ones might harm the amp.


 

 One from Schiit is only $10


----------



## AMRoberts

reddington said:


> I think Jason posted once insisting on using the wall wart Schiit provides. He said generic ones might harm the amp.


 

 I believe the detail from the FAQ gets to the important point:


> ...
> Unless you know what you’re doing, we don’t recommend that. Vali uses an AC wall wart. Most are DC. DC won’t work with Vali.
> ...


 
 If you end up having to source the adapter from someone other than Schiit, make certain you have something with AC output.  Glancing through the ever-growing collection of old wall warts at my house, they are all labelled with respect to AC vs DC, output voltage and current, although in some cases it is molded into the plastic shell, and you need decent light to read it.


----------



## ebiscaia

I know I asked that before but could someone, please, record a sample of song passing through Vali?
  
 Thanks,


----------



## ejwiles

ebiscaia said:


> I know I asked that before but could someone, please, record a sample of song passing through Vali?
> 
> Thanks,


 
 Why?  What are you hoping to hear?


----------



## ebiscaia

I want to have an idea of the way this amp sounds because I live in Brazil and if I buy Vali, it's gonna take a long to arrive and shipping cost is a bit high in case I don't like it.


----------



## jaywillin

ebiscaia said:


> I want to have an idea of the way this amp sounds because I live in Brazil and if I buy Vali, it's gonna take a long to arrive and shipping cost is a bit high in case I don't like it.


 
 you wouldn't be able to tell that way, whatever is sampled will will sound like whatever you are listening with


----------



## RickB

ebiscaia said:


> I want to have an idea of the way this amp sounds because I live in Brazil and if I buy Vali, it's gonna take a long to arrive and shipping cost is a bit high in case I don't like it.


 
  
 The Vali is a slightly warm, slightly lush, clear sounding amp. It works best with high ohm (250 and up) headphones. Headphones with lower impedance are going to tend to be noisy on the Vali.


----------



## RedBull

I use ma900 with Vali with a success. It still sound very very good.


----------



## StanD

rickb said:


> The Vali is a slightly warm, slightly lush, clear sounding amp. It works best with high ohm (250 and up) headphones. Headphones with lower impedance are going to tend to be noisy on the Vali.


 
 My HE-500's aren't noisy with the Vali. It depends on the sensitivity, which many low impedance cans are not that sensitive. IEM's are in general more sensitive.


----------



## Raymate

Looking at getting this, does it need running in?
  
 I have a E7 and E17 can I sue them to get sound into this?


----------



## Delirious Lab

raymate said:


> Looking at getting this, does it need running in?
> 
> I have a E7 and E17 can I sue them to get sound into this?


 
 1) If by "running in" you mean burn-in, no - not to my ears, at least,
  
 But warm-up, yes.  I find the sound a lot more "open" and engaging about 20 minutes into my listening sessions.  Tubes and all that.  The amp gets pretty warm to the touch.  But not fry-an-egg-on-top-of-it warm like they say Asgard does.
  
 2) Yes, just use a 1/8 to RCA cable to feed your DAP or DAC into the Vali.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

How are the hd600 with the Vali ?


----------



## StanD

lifeisgood4 said:


> How are the hd600 with the Vali ?


 
 They're good with the Vali, Magni and Asgard 2.
 I have all of the above. I like the Asgard 2 the best.


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> They're good with the Vali, Magni and Asgard 2.
> I have all of the above. I like the Asgard 2 the best.


 

 I have all those also. I think the Asgard has the most refined sound, too.


----------



## StanD

rickb said:


> I have all those also. I think the Asgard has the most refined sound, too.


 
 Great ears hear alike.


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> Great ears hear alike.


----------



## betula

StanD and RickB, how would you describe the difference between Vali and Asgard 2 with the HD600?


----------



## StanD

betula said:


> StanD and RickB, how would you describe the difference between Vali and Asgard 2 with the HD600?


 
 The Asgard 2 has a little more power, a significantly better S/N ratio and no microphonics (if that happens to bug you).
 IMO, the Vali exhibits a little bit of IMD at transients so I just looked up the specs and the:
  
 Vali IMD: <0.45%
 Asgard 2 IMD: Less than 0.010%
  
 Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) results in tones that are not harmonically related to the musical content. Generally I'd accept THD before IMD.
  
 If you're looking for an inexpensive tube amp, the Vali is a good deal. If you're looking for a clean sound then I would consider either the Magni 2 Uber or the Asgard 2.


----------



## RickB

betula said:


> StanD and RickB, how would you describe the difference between Vali and Asgard 2 with the HD600?


 

 I consider the Vali to be slightly warmer. It sounds a little grainier (more distortion) than the Asgard. The Asgard has better bass.
  
 The Vali has a slight lushness that isn't present in the Asgard.


----------



## betula

Thanks for your responses. 
 In what sense you say, the bass is better?


----------



## RickB

betula said:


> Thanks for your responses.
> In what sense you say, the bass is better?


 
  
 The bass on the Asgard 2 is stronger. On the Vali it sounds weaker and not as tight, IMO.


----------



## Billheiser

Specs from the Schiit website:
 Vali: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db
Asgard 2: 0Hz-20Khz, -0.1db
  
(No difference)


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Specs from the Schiit website:
> Vali: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db
> Asgard 2: 0Hz-20Khz, -0.1db
> 
> (No difference)


 
 The A2 isn't that good, you missed a character on the copy paste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Asgard 2: Frequency Response: *2*0Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB


----------



## Billheiser

Correct.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Correct.


 
 You're original point is valid, there is no perceptable difference in FR.


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> You're original point is valid, there is no perceptable difference in FR.


 

 I'm merely reporting what my ears are hearing. With my HD600s, I notice stronger bass with the Asgard 2 than with the Vali.


----------



## Eee Pee

What does "stronger bass" mean?


----------



## RickB

eee pee said:


> What does "stronger bass" mean?


 

 The bass part of tracks is at a higher volume on my HD600 with the Asgard.


----------



## Billheiser

rickb said:


> The bass part of tracks is at a higher volume on my HD600 with the Asgard.


Maybe - but probably not. It's more likely you have the Asgard turned up a little bit more.


----------



## StanD

rickb said:


> The bass part of tracks is at a higher volume on my HD600 with the Asgard.


 
  
  


billheiser said:


> Maybe - but probably not. It's more likely you have the Asgard turned up a little bit more.


 
 I think Bill is onto something. Our perception of bass and treble changes with volume so we are easily deceived, The best way to compare is with an A/B switch and match volumes, It is difficult to match volumes without that A/B switch.


----------



## reddington

Was going through the thread. At some point found very contradictory reports on how the HD 650 pairs with the Vali.

Some seem to have the impression that the Vali 650 combo sounds underpar if not paired with an expensive DAC.

Any thoughts?


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> I think Bill is onto something. Our perception of bass and treble changes with volume so we are easily deceived, The best way to compare is with an A/B switch and match volumes, It is difficult to match volumes without that A/B switch.


 
  
 It's certainly possible. When I was noticing the difference I wasn't thinking about comparing it scientifically, I just noticed I liked the Asgard more because the bass was louder.


----------



## StanD

rickb said:


> It's certainly possible. When I was noticing the difference I wasn't thinking about comparing it scientifically, I just noticed I liked the Asgard more because the bass was louder.


 
 I built an A/B switch when I was comparing amps, it's not expensive and easy to build, if you can solder. You can probably buy one online somewhere. It's hard to carefully match volumes when switching wires as the music changes. Flipping the switch is fast enough, You could try setting a loop using a music player app that has such a feature, a short loop would do the trick.
 I attach two amps to my DAC using Y cables so I don't have to fiddle with those wires.


----------



## youchew

so
 I got new headphones today, so I decided to unplug my other pair and plug the new ones in
 then I played a song and I kept hearing constant "popping" (not the same pop from when I first turn the amp on)
 thought it was strange so I unplugged the new pair and tried it with my previous heaphones and I kept getting the same popping
  
 did I just ruin my vali? LOL.
 (got it like a month ago)
  
 not really knowledgable about this sort of thing


----------



## Phishin Phool

You sure it isn't the microphonics of the vali tubes? If you are sure then contact Schiit , it should still be under warranty.


----------



## youchew

nope this is the first time that I've heard this.. 
 by microphonics I assume you mean that low hiss or the ringing that everyone talks about, no not that, it's popping every few seconds
 I guess I did something wrong by unplugging/plugging my headphones
 eh
 guess I'll contact them then


----------



## bigbenrfan99

I wouldn't really describe it as popping, but the first time I had my cell phone near my Vali, I heard intermittent interference noises.  Is it possible that you have a cell phone or other electronic device nearby that you previously did not?  Definitely contact Schiit, though.


----------



## youchew

Nope, nothing that was out of the usual
 thanks, just emailed them!


----------



## lekoross

I was wondering if anyone might be able to give a description of the difference in sound between the Vali, Valhalla, and Valhalla 2. I am looking for my first tube amp to drive my Senn HD600's. Also, any recommendations on DACs to go with the amp would be very much appreciated too.


----------



## Phishin Phool

I would also look at the offerings from garage1217 - another group of guys taking care of us - great products for a great price either in kit or pre-built.


----------



## Billheiser

lekoross said:


> I was wondering if anyone might be able to give a description of the difference in sound between the Vali, Valhalla, and Valhalla 2. I am looking for my first tube amp to drive my Senn HD600's. Also, any recommendations on DACs to go with the amp would be very much appreciated too.


 

 Don't quadruple post the same question on different threads.  Pick one.


----------



## the Ortherion

Just received my Vali and it is my first real headphone amp. I have a Cmoy and comparing them side by side my Cmoy is louder. My main concern initially was to get an amp that could drive my headphones comfortably and i feel that they lack some power. I'm almost constantly past 12oclock. Also on microphonics, my Vali takes a lot of time to stop ringing/hissing mainly on the right side. And when i touch the volume knob again even if im very carefull the hiss returns. However that hiss is only noticeable with music off.
 This gets better with time or i have a defective unit? I looked for the position of the tubes and they seem to be down. 
  
 Im using my macbook out while i don't get a DAC and with a Sennheiser HD560 Ovation II (300Ohm)


----------



## skyline315

the ortherion said:


> Just received my Vali and it is my first real headphone amp. I have a Cmoy and comparing them side by side my Cmoy is louder. My main concern initially was to get an amp that could drive my headphones comfortably and i feel that they lack some power. I'm almost constantly past 12oclock. Also on microphonics, my Vali takes a lot of time to stop ringing/hissing mainly on the right side. And when i touch the volume knob again even if im very carefull the hiss returns. However that hiss is only noticeable with music off.
> This gets better with time or i have a defective unit? I looked for the position of the tubes and they seem to be down.
> 
> Im using my macbook out while i don't get a DAC and with a Sennheiser HD560 Ovation II (300Ohm)


 
 Do you have the volume of your macbook maxed out?
  
 The ringing on yours seems overly sensitive.  May want to drop an e-mail to Schiit customer service to see what they say.


----------



## the Ortherion

Yes i do. i just put my Cmoy with the knob at same positions. And it is significantly louder. im using very long RCA cables from Macbook to Vali, is that a problem?
  
 Yes, i will send them an e-mail.


----------



## Eee Pee

Facepalm'r
  
 Length of cables don't matter.
  
 Ringing is "normal'!!!!  It's been covered over 100 pages in this thread!
  
 Volume knob at same position has zero meaning.  Different amps do not provide the same gain.
  
 Same as volume knob over 12 o'clock.  12 o'clock is half way.


----------



## the Ortherion

eee pee said:


> Facepalm'r
> 
> Length of cables don't matter.
> 
> ...




As i said before it's my first amp. So basically yes you can Facepalm me for my stupid questions. 

I know that Ringing is normal. I've been reading this thread too but mine starts Ringing when I barely touch the volume pot. Everything I touch it it rings.

I've emailed schiit and I'm waiting for their response.


----------



## skyline315

eee pee said:


> Facepalm'r
> 
> Length of cables don't matter.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ringing when you very gently touch the volume knob is unusual...


----------



## jaywillin

the ortherion said:


> As i said before it's my first amp. So basically yes you can Facepalm me for my stupid questions.
> 
> I know that Ringing is normal. I've been reading this thread too but mine starts Ringing when I barely touch the volume pot. Everything I touch it it rings.
> 
> I've emailed schiit and I'm waiting for their response.


 
 did you buy this new from schiit , or used ? the first units were very sensitive , i had one, when i got a newer one, schiit addressed the problem, and now its much better
 it still rings, but it stops a lot faster


----------



## the Ortherion

jaywillin said:


> did you buy this new from schiit , or used ? the first units were very sensitive , i had one, when i got a newer one, schiit addressed the problem, and now its much better
> it still rings, but it stops a lot faster


 

 I bought new from sonority audio (schiit europe). Mine is a #424 number. Is this one considered "early production"? Is yours newer or older than mine? I contacted schiit and they told me to contact schiit europe because they offer the support for schiit europe. It was weird since they could have told me if it was normal or not and they just told me to contact sonority.
  
 When i scratch my fingernail on the volume pot groves it's really the worst but gently touching the volume pot only gets a slight hint of microphonics. Im reading again some opinions and it seems its normal.
  
 To be honest it bothers me a little bit but the sound is much "better" than the one from my Cmoy. My Cmoy is so harsh compared to the Vali.


----------



## Eee Pee

Mine is 2238 and rings if I touch the volume knob.


----------



## jaywillin

the ortherion said:


> I bought new from sonority audio (schiit europe). Mine is a #424 number. Is this one considered "early production"? Is yours newer or older than mine? I contacted schiit and they told me to contact schiit europe because they offer the support for schiit europe. It was weird since they could have told me if it was normal or not and they just told me to contact sonority.
> 
> When i scratch my fingernail on the volume pot groves it's really the worst but gently touching the volume pot only gets a slight hint of microphonics. Im reading again some opinions and it seems its normal.
> 
> To be honest it bothers me a little bit but the sound is much "better" than the one from my Cmoy. My Cmoy is so harsh compared to the Vali.


 
 mine is #3528 and mine rings if i scratch the volume nob, or if i tap the chassis , but it subsides pretty quickly 
 the earlier models took a while longer, and were more sensitive to be sure
 with that serial # i'd say that's an earlier unit, one way you can tell is to get a flashlight and look into the vent holes, 
 and try to look at the tubes, and see if they are seated on the cushions, or have they pulled loose and are sitting 
 at about a 45 degree angle
 but i agree with the others that are saying the microphonics you are having aren't really out of the ordinary, some units are better
 some worse


----------



## q2klepto

Not sure if this was asked anywhere (please point me to the permalink if there is) - but how does the Vali compare to the new Magni 2 Uber? 
  
 Just sold my Aune T1 w/ 6922 tube and looking for a new dac/amp for my HE-400i, currently running off my AVR.  I've read VERY positive reviews on the vali on the other site, but theres 2 things that concern me about the vali
  
 1. 550mW - 650mW for 32-50Ohms  ..the 400i is listed at 32Omhs, but a lot of them measure around 45-50Ohn
 2. Noise floor, which is inherent in tube amps apparently. 
  
 Will the Vali power the HE-400i properly given about 600mW of power? I hear these should be powered with 1W to 1.5W
  
 Since the 400i is neutral, warm tilting with a bit of sparkle at 9khz - would pairing it with the Magni 2 Uber be the best. I think itll tame the bass slightly for a more neutral sound, but also exaggerate the treble - im hoping it wont turn it more sibilant. 

 I'll probably post this in the Modi/Uber 2 thread as well - but id like other peoples opinion on the Vali + HE-400i combo.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Billheiser

I had 2 Vali's, about 8-10 months apart in manufacturing date. Their ringing and microphonics were essentially the same. 

(Still have one Vali, love the sound).


----------



## potterpastor

q2klepto said:


> Not sure if this was asked anywhere (please point me to the permalink if there is) - but how does the Vali compare to the new Magni 2 Uber?
> 
> Just sold my Aune T1 w/ 6922 tube and looking for a new dac/amp for my HE-400i, currently running off my AVR.  I've read VERY positive reviews on the vali on the other site, but theres 2 things that concern me about the vali
> 
> ...




the Vali can drive almost any headphone.


----------



## StanD

q2klepto said:


> Not sure if this was asked anywhere (please point me to the permalink if there is) - but how does the Vali compare to the new Magni 2 Uber?
> 
> Just sold my Aune T1 w/ 6922 tube and looking for a new dac/amp for my HE-400i, currently running off my AVR.  I've read VERY positive reviews on the vali on the other site, but theres 2 things that concern me about the vali
> 
> ...


 
 The 400i's shouldn't require that much power, its sensitivity is 93 dB/mW. The Vali should be able to get you to 120 dBSPL, a smidge less if your cans are 50 Ohms. which should more than ring your bell. Expecting your amp to radically change the FR or sibilance is IMO more myth than reality.


----------



## skyline315

q2klepto said:


> Not sure if this was asked anywhere (please point me to the permalink if there is) - but how does the Vali compare to the new Magni 2 Uber?
> 
> Just sold my Aune T1 w/ 6922 tube and looking for a new dac/amp for my HE-400i, currently running off my AVR.  I've read VERY positive reviews on the vali on the other site, but theres 2 things that concern me about the vali
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Vali+400i combo is fantastic.
  
 Plenty of power and it adds a touch of liquidity/sweetness to the sound that the 400i benefits from greatly.
  
 I went from the Asgard 1 to the Vali and felt that it was a step up with this particular headphone.  
  
 Noise floor is a non-issue.


----------



## Phishin Phool

stand said:


> The 400i's shouldn't require that much power, its sensitivity is 93 dB/mW. The Vali should be able to get you to 120 dBSPL, a smidge less if your cans are 50 Ohms. which should more than ring your bell. *Expecting your amp to radically change the FR or sibilance is IMO more myth than reality.*


 
 I had thought that too but moving from a solid state amp to a OTL Tube amp (Sunrise II) definitely tamed the sibilance on my DT990's.


----------



## StanD

phishin phool said:


> I had thought that too but moving from a solid state amp to a OTL Tube amp (Sunrise II) definitely tamed the sibilance on my DT990's.


 
 Sibilance is usually a pretty big peak in FR, perhaps let say around 6 Khz. How is an amp going to perform the function of a notch filter and reduce the response around a specific peak frequency by the right amount of dB? Even more complicated if your cans have several such peaks, spread around.


----------



## jaywillin

skyline315 said:


> The Vali+400i combo is fantastic.
> 
> Plenty of power and it adds a touch of liquidity/sweetness to the sound that the 400i benefits from greatly.
> 
> ...


 
 interesting, i've been thinking about trying the he400i , i've gone through some system changes, and what i what to do, and i've come full circle
 my goals are more in the  "affordable" realm, instead of "best attainable" lol (especially electronically speaking) money is better spent headphone wise
 and i'm again loving my "little schiit's"


----------



## skyline315

jaywillin said:


> interesting, i've been thinking about trying the he400i , i've gone through some system changes, and what i what to do, and i've come full circle
> my goals are more in the  "affordable" realm, instead of "best attainable" lol (especially electronically speaking) money is better spent headphone wise
> and i'm again loving my "little schiit's"


 
 It's a nice headphone, Jay.
  
 Certainly not as nice as your Audeze I heard at our last meet, but I'd call it 90% there.  Plus, it's just so easy to drive.  I truly don't think I'd gain much dac/amp wise without climbing WAY up the chain.
  
 The 400i+Vali combo is more than enough to hold me mesmerized by the music, which is what this is all about.
  
 My last nagging doubt in the headphone realm right now is the HE-500.  Essentially the same price and the memory of it haunts me.


----------



## jaywillin

skyline315 said:


> It's a nice headphone, Jay.
> 
> Certainly not as nice as your Audeze I heard at our last meet, but I'd call it 90% there.  Plus, it's just so easy to drive.  I truly don't think I'd gain much dac/amp wise without climbing WAY up the chain.
> 
> ...


 
 well the lcd x is gone, and not likely to return, as i said, i'm trying to stay somewhat "affordable" lol
 right now i have a t1 i really, really like, and i got for a song, but i'd still like a planar, and while the lcd2f gets you 90-95% of the x(imo) i'd need to sell the t1, which i kinda don't want to do
 if the 400i will scratch my planar itch so to speak


----------



## the Ortherion

eee pee said:


> Mine is 2238 and rings if I touch the volume knob.


 
  


jaywillin said:


> mine is #3528 and mine rings if i scratch the volume nob, or if i tap the chassis , but it subsides pretty quickly
> the earlier models took a while longer, and were more sensitive to be sure
> with that serial # i'd say that's an earlier unit, one way you can tell is to get a flashlight and look into the vent holes,
> and try to look at the tubes, and see if they are seated on the cushions, or have they pulled loose and are sitting
> ...


 
  
  


billheiser said:


> I had 2 Vali's, about 8-10 months apart in manufacturing date. Their ringing and microphonics were essentially the same.
> 
> (Still have one Vali, love the sound).


 
  
 Mine despite being imported directly to me i think it's an early unit because im european. And schiit doesn't sell that much here in Europe i think (compared to USA at least). i looked inside the case with a flashlight and it doesn't seem to be upwards. However it's really weird considering im only getting the ringing on the right side. The left one is completely silent. I really do have to bang the case pretty "hard" (considering just a little touch does the job for the right channel) for it to ring. I do want to open it and see for myself. But i have it for less than a week so i won't open it. Worst case scenario ill ask for another unit.
  


phishin phool said:


> I had thought that too but moving from a solid state amp to a OTL Tube amp (Sunrise II) definitely tamed the sibilance on my DT990's.


 
  
 My sennheiser HD560 Ovation II paired with my Macbook HP out are somewhat sibilant. The Vali tamed that to an extent.


----------



## Eee Pee

Mine rings more on the right than the left.  It's NOT really weird.  It's actually really common, as 200 pages in this thread will attest to.


----------



## the Ortherion

Thank you guys. I guess thats normali dont want to start trading vali back and forth to find theleast microphonic one.


----------



## epfranke

Just got my Vali 2 days ago. I've been pleased with everything it's shown me so far.
  
 The only thing I'm left wondering is how the amp will behave in the future. Has anyone noticed any changes to the floor noise or even the microphonics after accumulating some hours with this amp? This may seem like a weird question, because my initial impressions are honestly all positive. I'm just worried how well this amp is going to "age".
  
 If this has been answered or discussed before, my apologies, and I would love a link if this is the case. Cheers to all of our Schiit.


----------



## Billheiser

epfranke said:


> Just got my Vali 2 days ago. I've been pleased with everything it's shown me so far.
> 
> The only thing I'm left wondering is how the amp will behave in the future. Has anyone noticed any changes to the floor noise or even the microphonics after accumulating some hours with this amp? This may seem like a weird question, because my initial impressions are honestly all positive. I'm just worried how well this amp is going to "age".
> 
> If this has been answered or discussed before, my apologies, and I would love a link if this is the case. Cheers to all of our Schiit.


 

 I've experienced no change at all in the noise floor or microphonics, in about a year of use so far.


----------



## ejwiles

epfranke said:


> Just got my Vali 2 days ago. I've been pleased with everything it's shown me so far.
> 
> The only thing I'm left wondering is how the amp will behave in the future. Has anyone noticed any changes to the floor noise or even the microphonics after accumulating some hours with this amp? This may seem like a weird question, because my initial impressions are honestly all positive. I'm just worried how well this amp is going to "age".
> 
> If this has been answered or discussed before, my apologies, and I would love a link if this is the case. Cheers to all of our Schiit.




I believe Jason said somewhere that the Vali's tubes have a 10,000 hour life expectancy and Schiit will replace them for a small charge when they fail. The Vali should age well, I wouldn't worry.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

epfranke said:


> Just got my Vali 2 days ago. I've been pleased with everything it's shown me so far.
> 
> The only thing I'm left wondering is how the amp will behave in the future. Has anyone noticed any changes to the floor noise or even the microphonics after accumulating some hours with this amp? This may seem like a weird question, because my initial impressions are honestly all positive. I'm just worried how well this amp is going to "age".
> 
> If this has been answered or discussed before, my apologies, and I would love a link if this is the case. Cheers to all of our Schiit.


 

  mine has been on for over a year now (continuous) and no problems


----------



## epfranke

ejwiles said:


> I believe Jason said somewhere that the Vali's tubes have a 10,000 hour life expectancy and Schiit will replace them for a small charge when they fail. The Vali should age well, I wouldn't worry.


 
 Good to hear! Thanks for letting me know. I guess I'm really just making a big deal over nothing.


----------



## epfranke

nic rhodes said:


> mine has been on for over a year now (continuous) and no problems


 
 Awesome, thanks for filling me in.


----------



## betula

Mine is #693. I bought it in Europe, a second hand bargain on eBay over a year ago. The guy used it for a couple of weeks, until his Lyr2 arrived. 
  Since then it is almost in daily use. 
 It rings for 20 seconds, when I switch it on, also rings for 10-15 seconds, if I touch it with something metal or hard material, or scratch or knock the sound knob. (This ringing can be heard only, when I stop the music, as it is not as loud as the switch on ringing.)
  Therefore I do not do such things with my Vali. I leave it alone, and just enjoy music. 
 (And turn the volume knob with my fingertips, avoiding knock it accidentally with my nail.) 
 This ringing is normal, and absolutely not an issue. Schiit also writes about it on the product page.
 So my advice is, not to mess with it, when you listen to music, just listen to your music. 
 It is such a tiny compromise, if you look at its value for price ratio... We could finally get over it.


----------



## lawrecedent

I d





the ortherion said:


> Mine despite being imported directly to me i think it's an early unit because im european. And schiit doesn't sell that much here in Europe i think (compared to USA at least). i looked inside the case with a flashlight and it doesn't seem to be upwards. However it's really weird considering im only getting the ringing on the right side. The left one is completely silent. I really do have to bang the case pretty "hard" (considering just a little touch does the job for the right channel) for it to ring. I do want to open it and see for myself. But i have it for less than a week so i won't open it. Worst case scenario ill ask for another unit.
> 
> 
> My sennheiser HD560 Ovation II paired with my Macbook HP out are somewhat sibilant. The Vali tamed that to an extent.




I don't get it, why are people trying to make it ring and then classing this as a deficiency in the amp?!? If you just listen to the music without thumping the amp or scratching it etc? It's like saying I really loke my new car but when I drive it into a lake it really doesn't perform well. Have we really all become this neurotic? 

I got my Vali/Modi combo for Xmas and paired with my HD650'S is more than enough for me at the moment. It rings for 20 secs when I first turn it on and in no way affects my enjoyment of the amp. If I hit it repeatedly with a hammer this would most likely change, but why would I do this in the first place? It also can't make a toasted sandwhich but I love it anyway


----------



## bigalila

Got my second Vali and a Modi2 in this morning.  I bought the first Vali used, and it did have some ringing. It only did it when turning it on and changing phones.  I hooked up the new one and put it playing into my DT 880 Pros while at work to give it some burn in time.  I've been home for about an hour now swapping between my DT 880's and HD 600's several times.  This new one only rings if I plug the HPs in ham-fisted.  I guess they made some improvements over time.  I am going to A/B the Modi2 with an original Modi this weekend and see what how they compare.  Thanks for the wonderful products Schiit!


----------



## elwappo99

bigalila said:


> Got my second Vali and a Modi2 in this morning.  I bought the first Vali used, and it did have some ringing. It only did it when turning it on and changing phones.  I hooked up the new one and put it playing into my DT 880 Pros while at work to give it some burn in time.  I've been home for about an hour now swapping between my DT 880's and HD 600's several times.  This new one only rings if I plug the HPs in ham-fisted.  I guess they made some improvements over time.  I am going to A/B the Modi2 with an original Modi this weekend and see what how they compare.  Thanks for the wonderful products Schiit!


 
  
 Sounds like they might have improved the dampening inside. If you have a chance, could you open the unit and take some pictures?


----------



## bigalila

elwappo99 said:


> Sounds like they might have improved the dampening inside. If you have a chance, could you open the unit and take some pictures?


 
 Not going to open a brand new unit.  Maybe after a couple weeks.


----------



## StanD

elwappo99 said:


> Sounds like they might have improved the dampening inside. If you have a chance, could you open the unit and take some pictures?


 
  
  


bigalila said:


> Not going to open a brand new unit.  Maybe after a couple weeks.


 
 Scardy cat.


----------



## the Ortherion

lawrecedent said:


> I d
> I don't get it, why are people trying to make it ring and then classing this as a deficiency in the amp?!? If you just listen to the music without thumping the amp or scratching it etc? It's like saying I really loke my new car but when I drive it into a lake it really doesn't perform well. Have we really all become this neurotic?
> 
> I got my Vali/Modi combo for Xmas and paired with my HD650'S is more than enough for me at the moment. It rings for 20 secs when I first turn it on and in no way affects my enjoyment of the amp. If I hit it repeatedly with a hammer this would most likely change, but why would I do this in the first place? It also can't make a toasted sandwhich but I love it anyway


 

 What if i told you that it rings even when i speak a little louder. I am not neurotic but it bugs me when it rings. The first few days i got headaches from the ringing. 
 I opened my unit and i saw the problem. The white foam doesn't stick to the board, so i need to find something to reglue the dampening foam to the board.


----------



## lawrecedent

the ortherion said:


> What if i told you that it rings even when i speak a little louder. I am not neurotic but it bugs me when it rings. The first few days i got headaches from the ringing.
> I opened my unit and i saw the problem. The white foam doesn't stick to the board, so i need to find something to reglue the dampening foam to the board.




Each to their own I suppose, maybe it's just not the right rig for you. Just wondering though, talking loudly is probably not something they were designed for bearing in mind they are a headphone amp after all. I appreciate that there does appear to be some units that are more affected than others though. I guess I just got lucky. No offence intended though


----------



## the Ortherion

lawrecedent said:


> Each to their own I suppose, maybe it's just not the right rig for you. Just wondering though, talking loudly is probably not something they were designed for bearing in mind they are a headphone amp after all. I appreciate that there does appear to be some units that are more affected than others though. I guess I just got lucky. No offence intended though


 

 I know man. No hard feelings =) I will keep the Vali in the meantime. Im digging the sound and i grow accustomed to the ringing so it doesn't bother me that much anymore. In the meantime i'm searching for ways to dampen the tubes.


----------



## elwappo99

bigalila said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like they might have improved the dampening inside. If you have a chance, could you open the unit and take some pictures?
> ...


 
  
 Fair enough. If / when you do, some of us older owners would certainly appreciate it. 
  
  


> Scardy cat.


 
  
 lol


----------



## bigalila

stand said:


> Scardy cat.




LOL... Buy one, open it up, and take the pick. I'd like to be able to send it back if any issues arise. After a couple weeks of use though, if I haven't had any issues come up it would be a safe assumption that none will.


----------



## bigalila

elwappo99 said:


> Fair enough. If / when you do, some of us older owners would certainly appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> lol




See above post... Give me two weeks and I'll get the pic up for you.


----------



## jimmers

the ortherion said:


> I opened my unit and i saw the problem. The white foam doesn't stick to the board, so i need to find something to reglue the dampening foam to the board.


 

 There are various "remedies" earlier in the thread, bending the leads so the tubes lie down on the foam being one that Schiit has adopted in production.


----------



## lawrecedent

the ortherion said:


> I know man. No hard feelings =) I will keep the Vali in the meantime. Im digging the sound and i grow accustomed to the ringing so it doesn't bother me that much anymore. In the meantime i'm searching for ways to dampen the tubes.




Hey, just a thought from what you described earlier with a headache and ringing continuing after listening. What volume are you listening at? When I first got mine I got a bit carried away and listened for far too long far too loud. Afterwards I had a bit of tinnitus as a result. Now I dont listen with the volume pot past about 10 O'clock and this hasn't recurred. I was probably pushing nearer 3 O'clock when I experienced this.


----------



## reddington

Anyone here has an idea how to swap the tubes of the Vali? I know Schiit says they will replace them for 20$, but from where I am from shipping will be a real hassle and expensive.

The tubes can be acquired really cheap over eBay. So was thinking if its not too hard can replace them myself when need be. (In 5-7 years)


----------



## Nic Rhodes

reddington said:


> Anyone here has an idea how to swap the tubes of the Vali? I know Schiit says they will replace them for 20$, but from where I am from shipping will be a real hassle and expensive.
> 
> The tubes can be acquired really cheap over eBay. So was thinking if its not too hard can replace them myself when need be. (In 5-7 years)


 

  Cut off wire legs and de solder the wires left on the board, then re install the new tube wire leads into holes you have just desoldered and solder new wires onto board. Quite straight forward but you need to get the wires in the correct position so best done one at a time. Mine are at about 10,000 hrs now and are still good.


----------



## reddington

nic rhodes said:


> Cut off wire legs and de solder the wires left on the board, then re install the new tube wire leads into holes you have just desoldered and solder new wires onto board. Quite straight forward but you need to get the wires in the correct position so best done one at a time. Mine are at about 10,000 hrs now and are still good.




Sounds very doable with average soldering skills. Thanks.


----------



## bigalila

Has anybody tried the Philips Fidelio X2 with the Vali yet?  I'm a little worried about the 35 Ohm impedance.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Why? The Vali will knock out 650mW into that impedance. Reasonably pokey, won't drive some planars very well but absolutely fine for most headphones.


----------



## bigalila

I'm only worried about the noise floor. I know the Vali has plenty of power.


nic rhodes said:


> Why? The Vali will knock out 650mW into that impedance. Reasonably pokey, won't drive some planars very well but absolutely fine for most headphones.


 
 I'm only worried about the noise floor. I know the Vali has plenty of power.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The Vali is noisier than say Schiit eqivalant solid state item but certainly not an issue to worry me with my MA900 which are 12 ohm but all valve amps are noisier, rarely is it an issue however for listening to music and that is no different for the Vali. It has other well known issues but these are well known.


----------



## bigalila

I actually own 2 Valis. I have an older one I picked up used and I just got my new Vali and Modi2 in this week. The new one seems less noisy than the older one, although it has gotten noisier throughout the burn in process. I can run my M50s with the newer one and don't hear the noise floor, but on the older one I do.  Of course on my HD600 and DT880 pro, dead silent on both amps. I am just looking for a comment from somebody who has tried the pairing before I drop the coin.


----------



## the Ortherion

lawrecedent said:


> Hey, just a thought from what you described earlier with a headache and ringing continuing after listening. What volume are you listening at? When I first got mine I got a bit carried away and listened for far too long far too loud. Afterwards I had a bit of tinnitus as a result. Now I dont listen with the volume pot past about 10 O'clock and this hasn't recurred. I was probably pushing nearer 3 O'clock when I experienced this.


 
  
 Less then 12 o'clock for sure. In the beginning the amp was really not much louder. I feel it's getting louder by the day. Now i use to hear at 9 or 10 o'clock. Depends on the song of course.


----------



## lawrecedent

the ortherion said:


> Less then 12 o'clock for sure. In the beginning the amp was really not much louder. I feel it's getting louder by the day. Now i use to hear at 9 or 10 o'clock. Depends on the song of course.



I know what you mean, I'm listening at much lower levels at the moment and they seem plenty loud enough. It's just a bit too tempting sometimes to crank it up and get the toe tapping!


----------



## StanD

lawrecedent said:


> I know what you mean, I'm listening at much lower levels at the moment and they seem plenty loud enough. It's just a bit too tempting sometimes to crank it up and get the toe tapping!


 
 Is that what Jimi Hendrix meant when he sang,
 "I have a humming bird and it hums so loud
You think you were losing your mind"
  
 Loud sounds better because the way we hear, until it gets too loud.


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> Is that what Jimi Hendrix meant when he sang,
> "I have a humming bird and it hums so loud
> You think you were losing your mind"
> 
> Loud sounds better because the way we hear, until it gets too loud.


 

 No, he was complaining about a ground loop in his Hi-Fi.


----------



## lawrecedent

stand said:


> Is that what Jimi Hendrix meant when he sang,
> "[COLOR=292929]I have a humming bird and it hums so loud[/COLOR][COLOR=292929]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=292929]You think you were losing your mind[/COLOR]"
> 
> Loud sounds better because the way we hear, until it gets too loud.



It's funny you mention Jimi because its often on older tracks like Hendrix that I end up reaching for the dial. They just sound so much quieter than modern recordings. Still with a bit of volume they put modern mastering to shame.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Is that what Jimi Hendrix meant when he sang,
> "I have a humming bird and it hums so loud
> You think you were losing your mind"
> 
> Loud sounds better because the way we hear, until it gets too loud.


 
  
  


rickb said:


> No, he was complaining about a ground loop in his Hi-Fi.


 
 You saying his Schiit was in a loop?


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> You saying his Schiit was in a loop?


 

 Yeah, that problem's been around forever.


----------



## StanD

lawrecedent said:


> It's funny you mention Jimi because its often on older tracks like Hendrix that I end up reaching for the dial. They just sound so much quieter than modern recordings. Still with a bit of volume they put modern mastering to shame.


 
 A lot of his stuff has hum because he uses a Stratocaster which has single coil pickups that don't cancel 60 Hz (50 Hz for Europe) and he turns it up.
 How about Voodoo Chile Slight Return or Hear my Train 'Comin.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> You saying his Schiit was in a loop?


 
  
  


rickb said:


> Yeah, that problem's been around forever.


 
 My Schiit is in stacks.


----------



## lawrecedent

stand said:


> A lot of his stuff has hum because he uses a Stratocaster which has single coil pickups that don't cancel 60 Hz (50 Hz for Europe) and he turns it up.
> How about Voodoo Chile Slight Return or Hear my Train 'Comin.



I love the groove on hear my train comin' and little wing and all along the watchtower are personal faves. I think it was after watching Withnail and I that really made the track for me.


----------



## StanD

lawrecedent said:


> I love the groove on hear my train comin' and little wing and all along the watchtower are personal faves. I think it was after watching Withnail and I that really made the track for me.


 
 OK, my last OT on this. Try Pali Gap, Fusion Jazz ahead of its time. OK, everyone listen to this youtube using your Vali to keep this on topic. Link below, it's good.


----------



## Billheiser




----------



## Delirious Lab

stand said:


> OK, my last OT on this. Try Pali Gap, Fusion Jazz ahead of its time. OK, everyone listen to this youtube using your Vali to keep this on topic. Link below, it's good.




  
 Excellent choice


----------



## prsut

reddington said:


> Anyone here has an idea how to swap the tubes of the Vali? I know Schiit says they will replace them for 20$, but from where I am from shipping will be a real hassle and expensive.
> 
> The tubes can be acquired really cheap over eBay. So was thinking if its not too hard can replace them myself when need be. (In 5-7 years)


 

 see here  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/3900#post_10532302
 bit more work, but then, you can change tube in minute...


----------



## AMRoberts

lawrecedent said:


> ... What volume are you listening at? When I first got mine I got a bit carried away and listened for far too long far too loud. Afterwards I had a bit of tinnitus as a result. Now I dont listen with the volume pot past about 10 O'clock and this hasn't recurred. I was probably pushing nearer 3 O'clock when I experienced this.


 
  
 Lawrecedent, sorry for the lagging response, just catching up ... Just curious, what headphones you ran with the Vali's volume control at 3 O'clock?  With my DT-150s (250 ohm, 97 dB SPL @ 1mW) and DT-250s (250 ohm, 100 dB SPL @ 1mW) I could barely get my Vali's control off of fully counter-clockwise before reaching uncomfortable loudness.  I have to use foobar2k to apply software volume,  -9 dB to -12 dB for well-mastered material, -15 dB to -18 dB for highly compressed/loudness-war stuff, just to have the Vali's control at 9 O'clock.  I can't imagine getting to 10 O'clock, much less 3 without being in pain.


----------



## nathandodo

I just got Sennheiser HD 598. I'm not sure it will works well with Schiit Vali. People keep complaining about its hiss sound of this amp.


----------



## lawrecedent

amroberts said:


> Lawrecedent, sorry for the lagging response, just catching up ... Just curious, what headphones you ran with the Vali's volume control at 3 O'clock?  With my DT-150s (250 ohm, 97 dB SPL @ 1mW) and DT-250s (250 ohm, 100 dB SPL @ 1mW) I could barely get my Vali's control off of fully counter-clockwise before reaching uncomfortable loudness.  I have to use foobar2k to apply software volume,  -9 dB to -12 dB for well-mastered material, -15 dB to -18 dB for highly compressed/loudness-war stuff, just to have the Vali's control at 9 O'clock.  I can't imagine getting to 10 O'clock, much less 3 without being in pain.




I've been mainly listening with my Sennheiser HD650's. I think looking back it was probably more like about 1 O'clock than three. I think I must have had a bad cold affecting my ears or something because recently I've been quite happily listening at about 9 O'clock on the volume pot. No wonder my ears were ringing!


----------



## AMRoberts

lawrecedent said:


> I've been mainly listening with my Sennheiser HD650's. I think looking back it was probably more like about 1 O'clock than three. I think I must have had a bad cold affecting my ears or something because recently I've been quite happily listening at about 9 O'clock on the volume pot. No wonder my ears were ringing!


 

 I think that seems more consistent with my experience.  The HD650 specs say 103 dB (hearing damage with more than 8 minutes of exposure per the Etymotic web site) with 3.3 mW of input power (if I'm doing the math correctly).  I don't know what the taper on the volume pot is, but as a wild-assed-guess I can believe 1 O'clock getting average SPL up to ear-ringing levels unless your source wasn't producing typical line levels or your program material was very quiet.
  
 Back to _Crimes of Passion_ through the DT-150, Modi/Vali at 9 O'clock, foobar2k at -10.5 dB.
  
 Thanks,
 Alan


----------



## reddington

Has anyone here tried the Vali with different DACs. From a few posts in this thread got the impression that the performance of Vali is very DAC dependent or it scales better with DAC upgrades than other amps are likely to do. Would like some inputs.


----------



## elwappo99

zilch0md said:


> Going on my experience using Blu-Tack....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Going through this thread and found this (a few months ago). Finally got around to trying it. I have a very early production unit that would ring... a lot. Volume changing was 5 seconds worth. This damping worked surprisingly well. Volume changes now have 0 ringing.


----------



## Tautologi

Did the same mod as the above poster on also a early production unitt with *severe* ringing and it fixed the ringing when changing the volume... if i move the pot carefully.
  
 The amp still randomly starts to ring quite loudly when it has been on a long time and nothing besides a restart can fix it. Anyone else having the same issue?


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I am considering this amp and I was wondering how yall think it would pair with the an Aune T1 DAC (Tube Buffer, 1967 Siemens 6922) + SoundMAGIC HP150s?
  
 I feel like I could build this thing myself haha and I am looking into DIY kits, but figured I'd post and see if anyone has a similar pairing (HP150 and HP100 are identical in sound).


----------



## Billheiser

tautologi said:


> Did the same mod as the above poster on also a early production unitt with *severe* ringing and it fixed the ringing when changing the volume... if i move the pot carefully.
> 
> The amp still randomly starts to ring quite loudly when it has been on a long time and nothing besides a restart can fix it. Anyone else having the same issue?


 

 No, not here.


----------



## Spiral Out

tautologi said:


> Did the same mod as the above poster on also a early production unitt with *severe* ringing and it fixed the ringing when changing the volume... if i move the pot carefully.
> 
> The amp still randomly starts to ring quite loudly when it has been on a long time and nothing besides a restart can fix it. Anyone else having the same issue?



I have run into that issue a few times in the year I have owned the Vali. It's very rare for me. It's happened maybe five times at most in the time I have owned it. Once I restart, the ringing goes away completely.


----------



## betula

tautologi said:


> Did the same mod as the above poster on also a early production unitt with *severe* ringing and it fixed the ringing when changing the volume... if i move the pot carefully.
> 
> The amp still randomly starts to ring quite loudly when it has been on a long time and nothing besides a restart can fix it. Anyone else having the same issue?


 

 Never happened to me.  Mine is also quite early production, and I use it almost every day for 3 hours in average since I bought it. (1 year).

 It rings a bit when I switch it on. If I change the volume (touching just the volume knob with my fingertips) it does not ring. Only, if I touch the case or move it by accident. (Not as loud as the switch on ring.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://headphone.guru/schiit-vali-headphone-amplifier/

I reviewed the Vali. That says a lot, considering I don't tend to review gear. It left quite an impression on me.


----------



## YtseJamer

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/schiit-vali-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> I reviewed the Vali. That says a lot, considering I don't tend to review gear. It left quite an impression on me.


 
  
 Great review sir!  (I agree with everything you said.)


----------



## Mr Rick

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/schiit-vali-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> I reviewed the Vali. That says a lot, considering I don't tend to review gear. It left quite an impression on me.


 
 So you like it? LOL
  
 I love mine as well. Classical symphonies into the soundstage of my HD598s are a thing to behold.


----------



## skyline315

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/schiit-vali-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> I reviewed the Vali. That says a lot, considering I don't tend to review gear. It left quite an impression on me.


 
 Nice review that I generally agree with.
  
 The only two things I'd mention are that:
  
 1)  It works quite well with efficient planars.  It sounds fantastic with the 400i, and I hear reports that it also plays quite nicely with the HE-500 and 400.  Yes, the HE-6 would be a bad idea, but I wouldn't want planar owners to write the Vali completely.
  
 2)  Black background depends on the headphone.  With my 1350s, it is a noisy background like you described.  With my 400i, the background is dead silent.  Nice, deep, dark, and black.
  
 Thanks for the review!


----------



## MickeyVee

Here we go again!
 I ordered the Vali on Day One and finally ended up selling it a few months later.  In the back of my mind I always doubted the decision because it was killer for the price.
 After rereading some reviews (and MLE's to boot) I decided to get it again.  Order placed!  I plan on using it with my HE400i and the AK100 II as the source.  I have the Bluetooth Remote for the AK100 II so I figure I'd set the Vali at 12:00 and use the remote to control the volume. It should be a killer around the house transportable system and possibly a travel rig.
 Looking forward to joining the Vali club again.


----------



## Mr Rick

mickeyvee said:


> Here we go again!
> I ordered the Vali on Day One and finally ended up selling it a few months later.  In the back of my mind I always doubted the decision because it was killer for the price.
> After rereading some reviews (and MLE's to boot) I decided to get it again.  Order placed!  I plan on using it with my HE400i and the AK100 II as the source.  I have the Bluetooth Remote for the AK100 II so I figure I'd set the Vali at 12:00 and use the remote to control the volume. It should be a killer around the house transportable system and possibly a travel rig.
> Looking forward to joining the Vali club again.


 
 Welcome back. I'm getting my first listen to my new X2s on my Vali right now. It's going to be an enjoyable evening.
  
  
 BTW.... I've got a newer ( less the three weeks ) edition Vali and can detect *no *ringing.


----------



## SelmO

Hello everybody!

 I'm just about to upgrade my audio-gear a little bit and was thinking quite a lot of the Vali as supposedly it would work pretty well with an AKG K701. Currently I'm running my music over a MacbookPro through an Audinst MX-2 and  was thinking to run the Audinst as a DAC. Does anybody of you have tried that, yet? Would you expect that to be a plausible upgrade or just a change in sound-characteristics? Thanks in advance already!


----------



## skyline315

selmo said:


> Hello everybody!
> 
> I'm just about to upgrade my audio-gear a little bit and was thinking quite a lot of the Vali as supposedly it would work pretty well with an AKG K701. Currently I'm running my music over a MacbookPro through an Audinst MX-2 and  was thinking to run the Audinst as a DAC. Does anybody of you have tried that, yet? Would you expect that to be a plausible upgrade or just a change in sound-characteristics? Thanks in advance already!


 
  
 I'd sell the Audinst and got for the Schiit stack.
  
 I have the mx-1 and took it to work.  It does a fine job there with my DT1350s.


----------



## SelmO

Thanks for your quick response! With Schiit-Stack you mean Modi+Vali or Modi+Magni? How do you think these two would compare?


----------



## RestoredSparda

tautologi said:


> Did the same mod as the above poster on also a early production unitt with *severe* ringing and it fixed the ringing when changing the volume... if i move the pot carefully.
> 
> The amp still randomly starts to ring quite loudly when it has been on a long time and nothing besides a restart can fix it. Anyone else having the same issue?




Yep! I've had my amp for quite some time as a bedside rig and if left on for an hour or more it will suddenly have a very loud constant ringing. Like you said, only a restart fixes it. When this happens its actually loud enough for me to hear in another room. Lol.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I'm using the Vali with 701's, 702's, K550's and Senn 650's and it sounds great. Still no appreciable ringing and I've owned it around 9 months, give or take.
  
 TWIN


----------



## skyline315

selmo said:


> Thanks for your quick response! With Schiit-Stack you mean Modi+Vali or Modi+Magni? How do you think these two would compare?


 
  
 My recommendation would be modi+vali, but that is speculation on my part since I haven't had much time with the 701.


----------



## clusterm

Would you recommend this amp vs the hifiman ef-2a amp?


----------



## SelmO

skyline315 said:


> My recommendation would be modi+vali, but that is speculation on my part since I haven't had much time with the 701.


 

 Thanks! Will give the modi+vali a try...getting excited. Never had a tube-amp before...


----------



## skyline315

selmo said:


> Thanks! Will give the modi+vali a try...getting excited. Never had a tube-amp before.


 
  
 And it's a great tube amp to start with.  It gives you a taste of what they're all about without having to worry about tube rolling and dumping tons of money into that hole.


----------



## TwinACStacks

For Price v.s. Performance The Vali is pretty much a no-brainer. You have to spend (considerably) more to get any better.
  
 That is my take on it.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Nauglanch

Microphonics note: I just received my Modi 2 Uber / Vali stack. Absolutely no microphonics from the Vali. Volume, phono jack. Tapping on case. No microphonics. Maybe it was the Friday 13th delivery date. Headphones are 250 ohm DT-770 Pro .
  
 Vali with the 250 ohm DT-770 Pro is running at 9 o-clock - only two binks up from zero - so plenty of power to drive them. As a comparison my E17 needs to be about 30 (with default gain of 6) for matching volume. This playing Blues Traveler.
  
 [Edit 4/16/2015]: I recently completed a MS-1000 build.  I can hear the microphonics very clearly with the MS-1000. I can only hear them from a stout insertion of the phono plug or rapping on the case. Touching the map or adjusting volume still has no microphonics for me.
  
 The nominal impedance of the base Allesandro MS-1 is 32 ohms so I'd suppose any low impedance phones, certainly Grado, would be susceptible. My Beyer 770 Pro's are 250 ohm and are silent.


----------



## Mr Rick

nauglanch said:


> Microphonics note: I just received my Modi 2 Uber / Vali stack. Absolutely no microphonics from the Vali. Volume, phono jack. Tapping on case. No microphonics. Maybe it was the Friday 13th delivery date. Headphones are 250 ohm DT-770 Pro .
> 
> Vali with the 250 ohm DT-770 Pro is running at 9 o-clock - only two binks up from zero - so plenty of power to drive them.


 
 My Vali is only a few weeks old. I have *no* microphonics whatsoever. I'm using HD650s, HD598s and Philips X2s.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just picked up my new Vali to mate with the HE400i.  I ordered my first one on release day and it was plagued with ringing so I ended up selling it a few months later. Still following this thread, it seems like Schiit improved on the ringing and that it would mate well with the HE400i.  To my surprise and delight on initial power up and subsequent listening, there is NO ringing at all! I can turn up the volume, tap on the chassis and nada, nothing.  Even with the low Canadian $ and import duties/taxes, this little puppy is really worth the money.
  
 Setup: AK100 II Line Out > Vali > HE400i. I can pick it up and take it anywhere in the house where I have a plug and with the bluetooth remote for the AK100II, sweet!
  
 Letting it cook (break-in) for a while and will be spending some quality time listening.  Me thinks the McIntosh/HD800 system may get a little jealous over the next week or so.


----------



## Nauglanch

I was reluctant to look inside and see what they might have changed. Then based on how hot it gets I decided to mod the case on my milling machine and add one or two more rows of cooling holes.
  
 I've only marked up the underside of the top - I'll do the milling this weekend - probably with a close-enough sized center drill for a one-pass no-bit-walk hole.
  
 I noticed the curved bent leads (visible with a cover-on peek) and the right tube is starting to lift up. We'll see how that goes. Ideally for convection cooling we'd have a lower air inlet. But the PCB is a fairly snug fit - and it looked like some black goo or foam or such between the front edge and the case. So it looks like dampening on the PCB as well. I didn't want to disturb that in case it's sticky so will just go with another row or two of top holes in a matching pattern.
  
 About 20 listening hours at work now and enjoying Vali!


----------



## blackcatSVK

I'm owning Schiit stack: Modi/ Vali and it is performing amazingly.
 I have 3 headphones, Hifiman HE-400, Senn HD600 and Denon D2000.

 On HE-400: Vali is slightly different from my other amp: MapleTree Ear+ HD.
 On HD600: on MapEar, it absolutely performs better but it is still very good at Vali.
 On D2000: Vali is completely more excellent than MapEar, because this D2000 got clipping on MapEar but very sweet and smooth on Vali.
  
 If someone said that Vali is the best amp for the price up to $1650, it is a true exaggeration, but Vali is obviously a good amp, or even best amp I've tried up to $300, clearly a bargain.


----------



## sling5s

I'm comparing my Lyr 2 with top of the line tubes: 75 Reflectors HG with Vali and the Vali is about 90-95% of the Lyr 2 with those tubes.
  
 The difference is the Lyr 2's bass goes lower and has more presence and treble is a little more extended and airy while the Vali is more mid centric, more mid bass punch and slightly more lively and upfront.  
  
 Overall the Lyr 2 is slightly more well balanced, smoother and refined and it's mostly because of the 75 Reflectors that it's more detailed and layered. Hence the Lyr 2 is very immersive.  You can get lost in the layered details. But again the Vali gets your toe tapping and head bopping and sucks you into the music.  It's a fun little amp. 
  
 But dang, when you consider that the tubes on the Lyr 2 cost more than the Vali itself, you can't help love the Vali more.  I mean, the sound signature of the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors and Vali are very scary similar... too close.  Of course throw in different tubes on the Lyr 2 and they sound completely different, but with these Russian Voskhod and Reflectors, they share a very similar sound signature.
  
 This is all with LCD-2F with Uber Bifrost.  To give some background, in the past, I had the Vali and sold it to get the Lyr 2 but recently repurchased it.  Back then when I purchases the Lyr 2, I was initially very disappointment and what I thought was a downgrade from Vali.  I mean the Vali kills the Lyr 2 with stock tubes.  But it was only when the Lyr 2 had the Top of the Line tubes that the Lyr 2 surpassed the Vali. And it was only by a small amount, at least to my ears.  I say small also because I prefer the sound signature of the Vali over the Lyr2.  It's a preference thing.


----------



## ejwiles

Not a direct comparison, but I have the Lyr 1 and with the 74 Reflektors I thought the Lyr was fuller, clearer, and had more slam.  Love the Vali, but felt the Lyr was a definite step up.  How long have you had the Lyr 2 and HG's?  Never heard either, but looking forward to it someday.


----------



## lawrecedent

blackcatsvk said:


> I'm owning Schiit stack: Modi/ Vali and it is performing amazingly.
> 
> I have 3 headphones, Hifiman HE-400, Senn HD600 and Denon D2000.
> 
> ...



I absolutely love my vali with my HD650 and SR325is and due to the law of diminishing returns am going to stick with this amp dac combo for some time. Just need to try some planars


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the sound of the Vali very "tubey" and warm or neutral?


----------



## lawrecedent

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the sound of the Vali very "tubey" and warm or neutral?



I find it pretty neutral, certainly not bass centric. It's fairly natural sounding with outstanding clarity with all genres I've tried.


----------



## MickeyVee

Agree. It's a hybrid tube amp and I find it perry neutral.
 Quote:


lawrecedent said:


> I find it pretty neutral, certainly not bass centric. It's fairly natural sounding with outstanding clarity with all genres I've tried.


----------



## sling5s

To my ears the difference between the lyr 2 with 75 reflectors and Vali is like LCD-2f and LCD/3f. It is a step up but it's not huge. But that's subjective. I like the Vali because of its mid centric and lively sound.


----------



## sling5s

I think I'm trying to justify the cost of Lyr 2 with 75 HG Reflector tubes over the Vali and at the same time not sound like a idiot.
 So I feel like I'm trying to say to myself the Lyr 2 is better. 
  
 But when I'm casually listening, I can't tell the difference between the two. The Lye 2 with 75 HG and Vali sound signature sound so similar and they perform on such a similar level, it's really hard to tell the difference.
  
 You got to really listen for the difference.  Yes, the Lyr 2 bass goes lower and the treble extends slightly higher and sound stage slightly more open and slightly more detailed and layered while the Vali has more mid bass oriented and mid centric and sounds little more intimate but these differences are very subtle... at least on my LCD-2F.
  
 I feel like I'm keeping the Lyr 2 just because it looks better stacked on top of the Uber Bifrost.
  
 All that you love about the Voskhod and Reflectors, the Vali does it, really well!


----------



## Matro5

sling5s said:


> To my ears the difference between the lyr 2 with 75 reflectors and Vali is like LCD-2f and LCD/3f. It is a step up but it's not huge. But that's subjective. I like the Vali because of its mid centric and lively sound.


 

Could you share your thoughts on the Vali with the PS500e? My apologies if you've posted them already.


----------



## YtseJamer

sling5s said:


> I think I'm trying to justify the cost of Lyr 2 with 75 HG Reflector tubes over the Vali and at the same time not sound like a idiot.
> So I feel like I'm trying to say to myself the Lyr 2 is better.
> 
> But when I'm casually listening, I can't tell the difference between the two. The Lye 2 with 75 HG and Vali sound signature sound so similar and they perform on such a similar level, it's really hard to tell the difference.
> ...


 
  
 I sold my Lyr recently and now I'm back with the Vali.
  
 The Vali is a very good match with the LCD-X and I have the feeling that it's going to be the perfect amp for the EL-8.


----------



## Andi-C

Does any one use the Vali with AGK K712 ? Is it a good match or for this Tide or is the Magni better suited... Thanks in advance !


----------



## No_One411

andi-c said:


> Does any one use the Vali with AGK K712 ? Is it a good match or for this Tide or is the Magni better suited... Thanks in advance !


 
 I use my AKG K7xx from Massdrop with my Schiit Vali and it sounds fantastic. Plenty of headroom with the volume knob around 11-12. 
  
 If you can live with the minor ringing you get when you first turn the Vali on, it's a great combo imo. 
  
 Heard the combo from my friend's first edition Magni and found that the Vali was by far more musical. I have not heard the combo with the new Magni 2.


----------



## protocol

Just picked up a Vali second hand. Only issue is my headphones don't plug into the headphone jack. I'm assuming I need one of those 3.5mm to 6.35mm jack adapters?


----------



## Mr Rick

protocol said:


> Just picked up a Vali second hand. Only issue is my headphones don't plug into the headphone jack. I'm assuming I need one of those 3.5mm to 6.35mm jack adapters?


 
 Yes.


----------



## Andi-C

Thank you No_One... Their is retailer here in the Uk so I have both at my dispense ! I think it must be worth the extra Money for a tube amp ?


----------



## StanD

andi-c said:


> Thank you No_One... Their is retailer here in the Uk so I have both at my dispense ! I think it must be worth the extra Money for a tube amp ?


 
 The Vali is not expensive as it is quite a value. Whether you end up hearing a real difference (tubes) can be debatable, especially since you can't roll tubes with this amp. I expect that you will be pleased.


----------



## Andi-C

stand said:


> The Vali is not expensive as it is quite a value. Whether you end up hearing a real difference (tubes) can be debatable, especially since you can't roll tubes with this amp. I expect that you will be pleased.




I'd hope so ! If it offers a different sound to the STX standard output then its a bonus. Coming from an Creative Z that was overly warm to a neutral STX its going to be Win Win....


----------



## betula

:*


----------



## sling5s

ytsejamer said:


> I sold my Lyr recently and now I'm back with the Vali.
> 
> The Vali is a very good match with the LCD-X and I have the feeling that it's going to be the perfect amp for the EL-8.


 

 The Vali is a great little amp for Rock!


----------



## BobFiggins

Just returned the Valhalla 2, and have a Vali on the way. Valhalla 2 was way too sibilant with the HD700. Even if the Vali can't tame the evil hotzones of the HD700, I think it will be a good amp to use while saving up for the Woo WA3/6/7. Glad to join you guys!


----------



## blackcatSVK

bobfiggins said:


> Just returned the Valhalla 2, and have a Vali on the way. Valhalla 2 was way too sibilant with the HD700. Even if the Vali can't tame the evil hotzones of the HD700, I think it will be a good amp to use while saving up for the Woo WA3/6/7. Glad to join you guys!


 
 Nice choice.
 Vali is my best amp for my Denon D2000 modded, very smooth and warm, but on my Mad Ear+, it's so clipping and sibilant.
 I think I've never let it go, because it's very appropriate for high efficiency headphones such as HD700 or my D2000.


----------



## skyline315

bobfiggins said:


> Just returned the Valhalla 2, and have a Vali on the way. Valhalla 2 was way too sibilant with the HD700. Even if the Vali can't tame the evil hotzones of the HD700, I think it will be a good amp to use while saving up for the Woo WA3/6/7. Glad to join you guys!


 
  
 Good luck.  I'm not sure anything out there can tame the HD700, but I'll be curious to see how the Vali handles them.


----------



## skyline315

So the Vali+400i has been my main pairing for a while now.
  
 Demoing a pair of HE-500s, and the Vali does an excellent job with them.  FWIW, there's very little volume change needed when switching back and forth.


----------



## BobFiggins

skyline315 said:


> Good luck.  I'm not sure anything out there can tame the HD700, but I'll be curious to see how the Vali handles them.


 
 SinglePower MPX3 tames it perfectly! Sadly, it's not the ideal amp for me. It's gigantic, has shoddy build quality when it comes to the transistor in it, and it's expensive, or cheap but requires DIY repairs. This is why I'm determined to stay with the HD700. I know what it sounds like with a proper setup, and it's the greatest thing I've ever heard. Granted, I haven't heard the HD800 or Audeze stuff, but I might as well shoot for what I know at the moment. Plus, the way I think just tells me if I can find a good amp for the HD700, it will also be a good amp for most other headphones.
  
 Somewhat debating trying a Lyr with different tubes, like Gold Lions. Though I read on this forum someone with a WA6 tried his most sibilant headphones with it (Beyer, lol) and said it completely removed all sibilance. Kind of makes me want it. 
  
 I will miss the Valhalla 2. Very sibilant, however it's very musical and exciting sounding. Not to mention, the entire spectrum seems to get very slightly coated in a fine liquor, just so smooth sounding. Though each time I get a "sss" in a recording, I'm like "Yep, time for it to go!"


----------



## StanD

bobfiggins said:


> SinglePower MPX3 tames it perfectly! Sadly, it's not the ideal amp for me. It's gigantic, has shoddy build quality when it comes to the transistor in it, and it's expensive, or cheap but requires DIY repairs. This is why I'm determined to stay with the HD700. I know what it sounds like with a proper setup, and it's the greatest thing I've ever heard. Granted, I haven't heard the HD800 or Audeze stuff, but I might as well shoot for what I know at the moment. Plus, the way I think just tells me if I can find a good amp for the HD700, it will also be a good amp for most other headphones.
> 
> Somewhat debating trying a Lyr with different tubes, like Gold Lions. Though I read on this forum someone with a WA6 tried his most sibilant headphones with it (Beyer, lol) and said it completely removed all sibilance. Kind of makes me want it.
> 
> I will miss the Valhalla 2. Very sibilant, however it's very musical and exciting sounding. Not to mention, the entire spectrum seems to get very slightly coated in a fine liquor, just so smooth sounding. Though each time I get a "sss" in a recording, I'm like "Yep, time for it to go!"


 
 Sibilance is usually formed by increased treble in the 4 to 10 kHz range, typically peaks somewhere between 6 and 8 kHz. If it's not just in the recording it is either in the headphones and or recording. IMO amps do not have notch filters, nor can one have such a filter that is automagically tuned to a specific frequency that cures a particular headphone's peak. In any case I don't think anyone wants to buy an amp that has a treble roll off. How many dB of filtering would be required to compensate? No amp does this.


----------



## BobFiggins

stand said:


> Sibilance is usually formed by increased treble in the 4 to 10 kHz range, typically peaks somewhere between 6 and 8 kHz. If it's not just in the recording it is either in the headphones and or recording. IMO amps do not have notch filters, nor can one have such a filter that is automagically tuned to a specific frequency that cures a particular headphone's peak. In any case I don't think anyone wants to buy an amp that has a treble roll off. How many dB of filtering would be required to compensate? No amp does this.


 
 I'm no expert. Perhaps it was the full combination of the things. He said there was no EQ involved. I'll have to find out what DAC/CD player he was using. All I know is it sounded incredible, and definitely didn't feel like the treble was rolled off. Though as I'm inexperienced, perhaps it was, but it didn't feel like something was missing. 
  
 The HD700 is a picky beast, but even so it's still fantastic sounding. I don't really want to find another set of headphones that is a well rounder to everything. I already own this, and I don't mind throwing money into upgrade after upgrade to try and get something good out of it. Worst case scenario I can lose a small bit of money by selling everything, and buy an entirely new setup in the end.


----------



## StanD

bobfiggins said:


> I'm no expert. Perhaps it was the full combination of the things. He said there was no EQ involved. I'll have to find out what DAC/CD player he was using. All I know is it sounded incredible, and definitely didn't feel like the treble was rolled off. Though as I'm inexperienced, perhaps it was, but it didn't feel like something was missing.
> 
> The HD700 is a picky beast, but even so it's still fantastic sounding. I don't really want to find another set of headphones that is a well rounder to everything. I already own this, and I don't mind throwing money into upgrade after upgrade to try and get something good out of it. Worst case scenario I can lose a small bit of money by selling everything, and buy an entirely new setup in the end.


 
 I've spent time with the HD700 and also found the treble to be a bit too much for my tastes, everything else about it was pretty good. Even so, I didn't have to yank it off my head because of the treble. Sometimes a little bit of placebo can go a long way, especially if the issue isn't downright off-putting. All decent quality electronics have a flat FR.


----------



## sling5s

matro5 said:


> Could you share your thoughts on the Vali with the PS500e? My apologies if you've posted them already.


 
 Sorry it's late.
 These are impressions with Flats.  I just prefer Flats with Grados.  
 Very groovy mid bass. Some may find the bass too much with the flat pads but I like the increased mid bass groove and punch.  The mids because of the Flats are warmer and thicker than it would be with the bowls. The Vali slightly smooths out the treble but brings out all the details of the 500e.  It's very musical and fun combo. 
 To me the 500e is the most balanced yet musical Grado.  It's musical without being bright and harsh and neutral (for a Grado) without being boring.  
 Very good balance for a Grado.  As for the Vali, it enhances all the strengths of the 500e.  I definitely recommend it.


----------



## MickeyVee

I actually quite enjoyed the HD700 with the Lyr and Amperex Orange Globes (pictures of the setup are in my gallery).  No problem sticking with the HD700 and the right DAC/AMP.
 Made the mistake of listening to the HD800 on a good system and everything went out the door 
  
 On another note, I'm pretty much done.
  
 Quote:


bobfiggins said:


> Somewhat debating trying a Lyr with different tubes, like Gold Lions. Though I read on this forum someone with a WA6 tried his most sibilant headphones with it (Beyer, lol) and said it completely removed all sibilance. Kind of makes me want it.


----------



## sling5s

Just of follow up and balance my comments with different headphone.  While I found very subtle differences between the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors and Vali, with my PS 500e, I find greater difference.  The sound signature is still some what close...but the Lyr 2 is definitely more open, deeper, wider in soundstage with more detailed and layered than the Vali.  The Vali is more closed in and intimate and more mid centric.  
  
 It may be a matter of synergy and preference but with the LCD-2F, I prefer the Vali, but with the PS 500e, I prefer the Lyr 2 with 75 Reflectors. 
 I also think the LCD-2F is just a more forgiving headphone.  So the differences don't stand out as much.


----------



## Nauglanch

Case modded Vali? Succinct answer - not worth the effort. To fix a non problem. I just figured I'd cool her down in case I later wanted to stack something on top. And I have a milling machine.
  
 Having some convenient Type K probes in my hand from some Patsburg & Mustang chip temp measurements - and a warm Vali - I opened her up and pasted down a thermocouple with some Kapton tape. 110.7F, open air stabilized,  with Blues Traveler, into DT-770 Pro 250 ohm.
  
 I added another set of vent holes, following the same pattern, with a #4 centering drill on my milling machine.
  
 I measured again, once with kapton blocking the new holes (forgot the un-milled before shot) and once after. Only 1F to 1.5F degree or so difference after letting the temps stabilize. 110.7 tube open air; 109 closed one set of holes; 108 two sets of holes.
  
 I think some low/side and/or bottom holes would allow some real convection and that might do more. There's obvious black anti-vibration stuff on the PCB edge(s) I didn't want to disturb. Didn't figure it'd do or be worth additional effort.
  
 Naturally some pics.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was under the impression that the case acted as a heatsink, so removing it isn't a good idea? I dunno.


----------



## jimmers

nauglanch said:


> Case modded Vali? Succinct answer - not worth the effort...


 
 AFAIK the heat comes from the output transistors not the valves ( only about 25mW heater)


----------



## StanD

jimmers said:


> AFAIK the heat comes from the output transistors not the valves ( only about 25mW heater)


 
 And since it's a Class AB output I doubt that anyone is going to be frying eggs on it.


----------



## BobFiggins

The harsh treble on the HD700 seems to be lessened with the Vali (snare drums and some bass doesn't come off as an ear explosion any more, but "sss" sounds still happen in some songs). I'm in love! Seems like the noise floor is rather audible, and some distortion overall, but it's so nice to listen to after a session on the Valhalla 2. It's like my ears can take a break for a while. I definitely see why you all love this little amp! So very relaxing, and full of detail. I would call it atmospheric, that may sound silly but it feels like the music surrounds me. I forget about the soundstage, the imaging, and I just absorb into the music.
  
 If the Lyr 2 is like a Vali but slightly better at everything, I think that's a goal for me to get eventually.


----------



## Nauglanch

jimmers said:


> AFAIK the heat comes from the output transistors not the valves ( only about 25mW heater)


 

 Heat's heat and the case as a heat sink is to dissipate heat. Facilitating convection airflow will help cool the heatsink. The additional holes on top just aren't adequate for that.
  
 Does the Magni 2 run this hot? I don't have one. Just like the Patsburg and Mustang chips I was measuring - keeping chips cool(er) helps them.  Some small chip sinks could move heat off the output transistors if there's that much heat in that small package.


----------



## Eee Pee

You really think 110 is hot?  Ambient air can be 110.


----------



## sling5s

sling5s said:


> Sorry it's late.
> These are impressions with Flats.  I just prefer Flats with Grados.
> Very groovy mid bass. Some may find the bass too much with the flat pads but I like the increased mid bass groove and punch.  The mids because of the Flats are warmer and thicker than it would be with the bowls. The Vali slightly smooths out the treble but brings out all the details of the 500e.  It's very musical and fun combo.
> To me the 500e is the most balanced yet musical Grado.  It's musical without being bright and harsh and neutral (for a Grado) without being boring.
> Very good balance for a Grado.  As for the Vali, it enhances all the strengths of the 500e.  I definitely recommend it.


 

 To add to my comment on the PS500e.  The Vali tends to have slight mid bass emphasis and upper mid emphasis, which makes it lively and energetic but with the PS500e, it adds to the already mid bass emphasis making them a little too mid bass oriented and also shouty at times.  This works for the LCD-2F but not so much for the PS500e.
 Which is why I prefer the Lyr 2 with the PS500e.  The Lyr 2 with 75 reflectors is smoother and more balanced. 
  
 Having said that, when I really want to rock out and pull out my "air guitar", I plug it in the Vali. The Vali just rocks out with both LCD-2F and PS500e.


----------



## Nauglanch

eee pee said:


> You really think 110 is hot?  Ambient air can be 110.


 

 Sure. Most of a years visiting a friend in Beatty 110 wasn't uncommon for our desert expolorations. It's not hot per-se. The computer chips I had the Omega out for typically run around 170F+ on their heatsink. I just like one piece of equipment to not noticeably heat up another. Figured I'd help. It wasn't sufficient. Love the Vali. My now one of a kind one at that.


----------



## Matro5

sling5s said:


> when I really want to rock out and pull out my "air guitar", I plug it in the Vali. The Vali just rocks out with both LCD-2F and PS500e.


 
  
 Great info. Thanks so much for posting.


----------



## TwinACStacks

If I may interject here. Tube amps are designed in a specific way. The fact is they are at their peak performance level when the pre/output tubes are HOT. If you have any experience with Guitar Amps they actually sound best when the Tubes are COOKING. This also applies to Pre-Amp tubes as well. That is why they are equipped with standby switches, to keep the tubes warm. Over cooling will actually be detrimental to the amps peak performance. Trust me the designers know their stuff.
  
 I've even searched for upgrade tubes of this type such as Mullard or Telefunken. There are none. The Guys at Schiit have used the best available tubes of this type in their design.
  
 JMHO
  









 TWIN


----------



## Phishin Phool

nauglanch said:


> Case modded Vali? Succinct answer - not worth the effort. To fix a non problem. I just figured I'd cool her down in case I later wanted to stack something on top. And I have a milling machine.
> 
> Having some convenient Type K probes in my hand from some Patsburg & Mustang chip temp measurements - and a warm Vali - I opened her up and pasted down a thermocouple with some Kapton tape. 110.7F, open air stabilized,  with Blues Traveler, into DT-770 Pro 250 ohm.
> 
> ...


 
 OT: Glad to see people still enjoy the Blues Travelers. They were still relatively small time when I used to see them (a lot). They would play fraternity parties and local bars on campus when I was in college in the early 90's. Remember partying with John Popper on a few occasions.


----------



## StanD

twinacstacks said:


> If I may interject here. Tube amps are designed in a specific way. The fact is they are at their peak performance level when the pre/output tubes are HOT. If you have any experience with Guitar Amps they actually sound best when the Tubes are COOKING. This also applies to Pre-Amp tubes as well. That is why they are equipped with standby switches, to keep the tubes warm. Over cooling will actually be detrimental to the amps peak performance. Trust me the designers know their stuff.
> 
> I've even searched for upgrade tubes of this type such as Mullard or Telefunken. There are none. The Guys at Schiit have used the best available tubes of this type in their design.
> 
> ...


 
 IMO you're comparing two totally different applications of tubes. The intended FR and distortion levels are very different. I haven't yet seen a audiophile amp that has a preamp gain control that is used to deliberately overload the stages preceding the output and allowing that output to be driven into heavy distortion when desired. Many guitar amps have foot switches to toggle the affect of extra gain.
 The other use of a standby switch is to have the amp instantly available when needed for performing and silent when not needed,


----------



## TwinACStacks

It is somewhat apples to oranges comparison, yes. The only constant is that tubes are meant to run at peak efficiency at a certain pre-designated operating temperature @ a certain peak wattage @ a maximum output bias before clipping. (Biasing referring to Output Amps) These parameters are taken into consideration in the design of the circuit, bias being controlled by resistors or an adjustable potentiometer. Also the selection of your preamp tubes themselves have an incorporated amount of inherent Gain. Take for instance 12 series Tubes: A 12AX7 has a Gain Value of 100 on a scale of 1 to 100, and while great for a Guitar amp, would be absolute Schite for an audio amp which a 12AU7 with a factor of 19 would be much more suitable. I'm absolutely positive the Schiit designers took that into consideration when they made the Vali and it's case/ cooling provisions. If they hadn't there would be a higher failure/ problem rate.
  
 But your point concerning my admittedly awkward comparison is valid. JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## Matro5

Vali on the way. Planning to use it iMac --> Dragonfly --> Vali --> Grado PS500. Am currently tempted by the new Audezes, as well. 
  
 Am curious if anyone in here uses Tidal as a source?


----------



## Phishin Phool

matro5 said:


> Vali on the way. Planning to use it iMac --> Dragonfly --> Vali --> Grado PS500. Am currently tempted by the new Audezes, as well.
> 
> Am curious if anyone in here uses Tidal as a source?


 
 If they are probably not for long as Tidal has acknowledged they do not have enough working capital to finish out the year.


----------



## Delirious Lab

matro5 said:


> Vali on the way. Planning to use it iMac --> Dragonfly --> Vali --> Grado PS500. Am currently tempted by the new Audezes, as well.
> 
> Am curious if anyone in here uses Tidal as a source?


 
 I tried both the LCD-2 and 3 on my DF+Vali rig at a local meet last Sunday... very nice combo.  You can get lots and lots of eargasmic mileage driving them Audezes with this lowly piece of Schiit while you save for a more exensive amp buy more music because Vali may very well be your endgame amp even for the LCD-3.  Seriously.


----------



## Matro5

delirious lab said:


> I tried both the LCD-2 and 3 on my DF+Vali rig at a local meet last Sunday... very nice combo.  You can get lots and lots of eargasmic mileage driving them Audezes with this lowly piece of Schiit while you save for a more exensive amp buy more music because Vali may very well be your endgame amp even for the LCD-3.  Seriously.


 
  
 Thanks very much for the reply! I think it's perfect amp for my current space, and if it punches that far above its weight, all the better.


----------



## lawrecedent

I





matro5 said:


> Thanks very much for the reply! I think it's perfect amp for my current space, and if it punches that far above its weight, all the better.


 
I too have just got the Modi/Vali and run my HD700, HD650, Sr350is and AKG K550 through it. What I love most above the price and the fact that it sounds/looks great, is that it seems to bring out the best in all my headphones. It doesn't seem to pair badly with anything I've tried. I haven't tried any high end amps but the results I'm getting from this little amp is going to be enough to keep me happy for quite some time.


----------



## HPiper

lawrecedent said:


> I
> 
> I too have just got the Modi/Vali and run my HD700, HD650, Sr350is and AKG K550 through it. What I love most above the price and the fact that it sounds/looks great, is that it seems to bring out the best in all my headphones. It doesn't seem to pair badly with anything I've tried. I haven't tried any high end amps but the results I'm getting from this little amp is going to be enough to keep me happy for quite some time.


 

 The Vali will surprise you with how good it sounds with some headphones that you might think it would have trouble with, like my T1's for example. The only thing I have found so far it doesn't like too much are my Grado's. It isn't horrible but the Grado's like my Lyr more.


----------



## cocolinho

Problem with this sweet Vali is the high output impedance (about 4/5 ohms if I'm correct) which doesn't work well with very low impedance headphones (my Final Audio Pandora IV = 8ohms) or IEM


----------



## sling5s

hpiper said:


> The Vali will surprise you with how good it sounds with some headphones that you might think it would have trouble with, like my T1's for example. The only thing I have found so far it doesn't like too much are my Grado's. It isn't horrible but the Grado's like my Lyr more.


 

 Yup.  Grady's sound better on Lyr than Vali.
 The Vali seems to add the extra mid bass and upper mids that Grado's already enough of.


----------



## Matro5

Vali showed up yesterday. Accidentally stayed up until 2AM listening to music.


----------



## bigalila

matro5 said:


> Vali showed up yesterday. Accidentally stayed up until 2AM listening to music.


 

 Yeah... that happens.  I still do that.  Lose track of time and have a horrible morning getting up for work at 5:30.


----------



## Shub-Niggurath

Hey folks,
Do you think the AKG K712 Pro would be a good match for the Vali? The K712's specs seem similar to the Q701 and I've heard good things about that and the Vali, but I figured I'd check in here. The DAC is a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD, if it matters.


----------



## PWGuy

Has anyone compared the Vali to the Magni 2 or Magni 2 Uber?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## StanD

pwguy said:


> Has anyone compared the Vali to the Magni 2 or Magni 2 Uber?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
 What are the odds of anyone buying all three and keeping them so they are both available at the same time to compare? Especially both versions of the Magni 2.


----------



## Phishin Phool

I heard the vali next to the original magni and modi last weekend. A slightly warmer and smoother sound than the magni was my opinion. No bad choice amongst either and for the price why not have all 3?


----------



## StanD

phishin phool said:


> I heard the vali next to the original magni and modi last weekend. I slightly warmer and smoother sound than the magni was my opinion. No bad choice amongst either and for the price why not have all 3?


 
 While you're at it, pick up an Asgard 2, nice amp. I actually have a Vali, Magni 1, Modi 2U an Asgard 2 and a Bifrost Uber USB2. All great Schiit.


----------



## Billheiser

I had a Magni (1) and later got a Vali, so they overlapped for a while at my house. I much preferred the V, and sold the M.


----------



## amigastar

Do i see this right that i can plug in my dac via rca cable into the vali but there is no further connection from vali into the amp for my speakers?


----------



## No_One411

amigastar said:


> Do i see this right that i can plug in my dac via rca cable into the vali but there is no further connection from vali into the amp for my speakers?


 
  
 Vali doesn't have preouts. You won't be able to use them to power your active speakers.
  
 Grab any of the "2" version amps if you want preout.


----------



## amigastar

Got it, thx


----------



## StanD

amigastar said:


> Do i see this right that i can plug in my dac via rca cable into the vali but there is no further connection from vali into the amp for my speakers?


 
 The Vali has no preamp out. You could use Y cables to connect your DAC to both the Vali and your powered speakers and use the volume control of your powered speakers.


----------



## AladdinSane

Coulda saved a lot of money had Vali had preamp out. Cost me a Burson amp and now a Magni 2U.


----------



## jimmers

aladdinsane said:


> Coulda saved a lot of money had Vali had preamp out. Cost me a Burson amp and now a Magni 2U.


 
 How?
  
 That's why we need a Vali 2 Uber


----------



## Gr8Desire

FWIW: Bought the Vali months ago.  Loved it from the start - and still do.

 Decided to 'upgrade' to a Lyr 2.  Tried it - and didn't care much for the Lyr 2.   Didn't have the detail or accuracy of the Vali.  Returned the Lyr 2 after 14 days (still waiting for my refund Schitt!). 

 That odd high pitched whine from the Vali is interesting.  You get it when first plugging in your phones OR just tap on the Vali with your fingers.  Last for about 30 seconds then goes away until you tap the case again.  Could do without this side effect but still a nice amp overall.  For the money, the Vali is outstanding value.


----------



## lamski

jimmers said:


> How?
> 
> That's why we need a Vali 2 Uber




This is what im looking for... Vali 2 uber with pre-outs...

I want to try out a tube style amp but want to keep it simple. Pre outs are a must have and are non-negotiable for me.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can anyone compare Magni 2 to Vali?


----------



## Mr Rick

pearljam50000 said:


> Can anyone compare Magni 2 to Vali?


 
 All the Schiit amps sound about the same. I have the Magni, Vali, Asgard 2, Valhalla 2 and Lyr.
  
 The Magni 2 offers more power if that is required.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks.
 So you would recomment the Magni 2 over the Vali with the HD800?


----------



## sling5s

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks.
> So you would recomment the Magni 2 over the Vali with the HD800?


 

 No. Even Jude recommends the Vali as go to budget amp for the HD800. You need some tubes to warm the HD800.


----------



## Mr Rick

sling5s said:


> No. Even Jude recommends the Vali as go to budget amp for the HD800. You need some tubes to warm the HD800.


 
 An even better choice would be the Valhalla 2.


----------



## jimmers

mr rick said:


> An even better choice would be the Valhalla 2.


 


mr rick said:


> All the Schiit amps sound about the same.


 
 ?


----------



## StanD

lamski said:


> This is what im looking for... Vali 2 uber with pre-outs...
> 
> I want to try out a tube style amp but want to keep it simple. Pre outs are a must have and are non-negotiable for me.


 
 Are you looking for some gain, connectivity or both? If just the connectivity you could get a SYS or just a cheap switch or Y cables and use a Vali.


----------



## lamski

stand said:


> Are you looking for some gain, connectivity or both? If just the connectivity you could get a SYS or just a cheap switch or Y cables and use a Vali.


 

 It would be mainly for connectivity.  And I would prefer to keep it as clean and simple as possible with my limited amount of desktop space.  I would run powered monitors when not using headphones.  I would like to use just one master volume for either the headphones or the monitors.
  
 I could go with the Magni 2 Uber which has everything I need but am just a little heart-set on trying tubes (even as simplistic as the ones in the Vali may be).
  
 Any feedback on if the Vali would be a worthy upgrade to the Magni 2 Uber for Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro 250ohm?  And I also hope to upgrade to the Sennheiser HD 650's in the near future.  I sold my HD580's last year and I would say it was a big mistake on my part...


----------



## StanD

lamski said:


> It would be mainly for connectivity.  And I would prefer to keep it as clean and simple as possible with my limited amount of desktop space.  I would run powered monitors when not using headphones.  I would like to use just one master volume for either the headphones or the monitors.
> 
> I could go with the Magni 2 Uber which has everything I need but am just a little heart-set on trying tubes (even as simplistic as the ones in the Vali may be).
> 
> Any feedback on if the Vali would be a worthy upgrade to the Magni 2 Uber for Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro 250ohm?  And I also hope to upgrade to the Sennheiser HD 650's in the near future.  I sold my HD580's last year and I would say it was a big mistake on my part...


 
 Then SYS + Val + powered monitors. If you like the HD600's you can save around a hundred bucks.
 The Vali is not an upgrade to the Magni, it is a choice.


----------



## jgreen16

stand said:


> Then SYS + Val + powered monitors. If you like the HD600's you can save around a hundred bucks.
> The Vali is not an upgrade to the Magni, it is a choice.


 
  
 Right now the price difference on Amazon between the HD650 and HD600 is $11.00.
  
 The HD650 has dropped to $290 several times now since late January.


----------



## jgreen16

I have both the Magni 2 Uber and the Vali. I'd say I prefer the sound of the Vali slightly more, but currently have the M2U connected in my system due to the pre-outs.I run the pre-out to the Aux In on a vintage Sansui AU-717 integrated amp that powers  a pair of JBL110 speakers.
  
 I have always questioned whether the RCA splitters would degrade the sound quality in some way. I guess for the price it would be worth a try. Or just grab a Sys and use it in reverse.


----------



## StanD

jgreen16 said:


> I have both the Magni 2 Uber and the Vali. I'd say I prefer the sound of the Vali slightly more, but currently have the M2U connected in my system due to the pre-outs.I run the pre-out to the Aux In on a vintage Sansui AU-717 integrated amp that powers  a pair of JBL110 speakers.
> 
> I have always questioned whether the RCA splitters would degrade the sound quality in some way. I guess for the price it would be worth a try. Or just grab a Sys and use it in reverse.


 
 If you used a Y cable on the Modi out, the Modi has an output impedance of 75 Ohms, the line inputs are several thousand Ohms (typically 10K Ohms) and the capacitance of short Y and RCA cables will not result in many pf which should not cause any issues with the Modi.
 Nice price on those HD650's at Amazon, if I didn't already have HD600's, HE-500's, and a large number of other headphones, I'd be hitting the buy button.


----------



## PWGuy

Off topic but why get the 650s over the 600s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## StanD

pwguy said:


> Off topic but why get the 650s over the 600s?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
 Depends on which sound profile you prefer. I prefer the 600's others prefer 650's. It takes A/B ear time to determine which floats your boat.


----------



## PWGuy

So what is the sound profile of each and primary differences, if I could ask?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## StanD

pwguy said:


> So what is the sound profile of each and primary differences, if I could ask?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
 They are very similar.
 The HD600 a bit more neutral.
 The HD650 a bit more bass a bit less treble.


----------



## episiarch

FWIW I'm with jgreen16 in owning both the Vali and the M2U and slightly preferring the Vali.  But besides the preamp outs the M2U has switchable gain (1.5 or 6 vs Vali's 4) which may be important in some situations, and the Vali has the possibility of tube microphonics. (Though mine, purchased new in 2015, seems to be one of the very non-microphonic ones and I've yet to experience this issue myself.)
  
 Re Y cables, here is what I have used, and if it degraded the signal at all, I couldn't tell:  http://www.parts-express.com/rca-male-to-dual-rt-angle-rca-female--091-1045


----------



## StanD

episiarch said:


> FWIW I'm with jgreen16 in owning both the Vali and the M2U and slightly preferring the Vali.  But besides the preamp outs the M2U has switchable gain (1.5 or 6 vs Vali's 4) which may be important in some situations, and the Vali has the possibility of tube microphonics. (Though mine, purchased new in 2015, seems to be one of the very non-microphonic ones and I've yet to experience this issue myself.)
> 
> Re Y cables, here is what I have used, and if it degraded the signal at all, I couldn't tell:  http://www.parts-express.com/rca-male-to-dual-rt-angle-rca-female--091-1045


 
 IMO some folks insist upon hearing something and so they do.


----------



## jgreen16

episiarch said:


> FWIW I'm with jgreen16 in owning both the Vali and the M2U and slightly preferring the Vali.  But besides the preamp outs the M2U has switchable gain (1.5 or 6 vs Vali's 4) which may be important in some situations, and the Vali has the possibility of tube microphonics. (Though mine, purchased new in 2015, seems to be one of the very non-microphonic ones and I've yet to experience this issue myself.)
> 
> Re Y cables, here is what I have used, and if it degraded the signal at all, I couldn't tell:  http://www.parts-express.com/rca-male-to-dual-rt-angle-rca-female--091-1045


 
 I think I'll grab a pair of those and try them out with the Vali. My Vali was alos very non-microphonic. I tried tapping it fairly hard, just to see what the ringing sounded like, and heard absolutely nothing. I must be the exception to your comment Stan D.


----------



## StanD

jgreen16 said:


> I think I'll grab a pair of those and try them out with the Vali. My Vali was alos very non-microphonic. I tried tapping it fairly hard, just to see what the ringing sounded like, and heard absolutely nothing. I must be the exception to your comment Stan D.


 
 My comment was about the Y cable degrading the signal, I say no.
 I have an earlier Vali and it does ring when I tap on it, touching it doesn't cause any problems.


----------



## jgreen16

stand said:


> My comment was about the Y cable degrading the signal, I say no.
> I have an earlier Vali and it does ring when I tap on it, touching it doesn't cause any problems.


 
 Yeah, I know, hence my smiley too. Before considering trying some type of splitter I did some research, and as you might imagine, there were a lot of differing opinions on whether there was any sound degradation. For $15, I may as well try this out for myself. Or, for a bit more, the Sys would look good in the Schiit stack, and act as a switch as opposed to a splitter.


----------



## StanD

jgreen16 said:


> Yeah, I know, hence my smiley too. Before considering trying some type of splitter I did some research, and as you might imagine, there were a lot of differing opinions on whether there was any sound degradation. For $15, I may as well try this out for myself. Or, for a bit more, the Sys would look good in the Schiit stack, and act as a switch as opposed to a splitter.


 
 I'm an EE and I can tell you that there is no reason for it to create any problems unless it is defective. If for example you are using a Schiit DAC, they have an output impedance of 75 Ohms, that's pretty low and most line inputs have an impedance of 10K Ohms. I do this all the time, go for it.


----------



## jgreen16

stand said:


> I'm an EE and I can tell you that there is no reason for it to create any problems unless it is defective. If for example you are using a Schiit DAC, they have an output impedance of 75 Ohms, that's pretty low and most line inputs have an impedance of 10K Ohms. I do this all the time, go for it.


 
 Yep, I have a Schiit Modi, and I would be running RCA cables to the Aux In of a Sansui AU-717 integrated amp.


----------



## StanD

jgreen16 said:


> Yep, I have a Schiit Modi, and I would be running RCA cables to the Aux In of a Sansui AU-717 integrated amp.


 
 The Aux input impedance is 47K Ohms, that's not going to be a problem. The link to a PDF of your owner's manual is below, that's where I got the the Aux input impedance. Don't you just love Google. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




http://akdatabase.org/AKview/albums/userpics/10007/Sansui%20AU-717%20Owner%27s%20Manual.pdf


----------



## heart banger-97

Hi guys,
Can somebody recommend an upgrade to Vali?
Lyr2 or bottlehead can be considered as a complete upgrade?


----------



## Phishin Phool

heart banger-97 said:


> Hi guys,
> Can somebody recommend an upgrade to Vali?
> Lyr2 or bottlehead can be considered as a complete upgrade?


 
 Are you only looking tube amp and what is your budget?


----------



## heart banger-97

phishin phool said:


> Are you only looking tube amp and what is your budget?


 
 No, I just compare amp section of my fiio x5 with vali, and found vali more pleasing. It's air suited my taste better than black background of x5's amp. So I concluded that maybe tubes are my things. I want to keep my budget as low as possible, especially below 500$. I thought about getting an ifi idsd micro as a dac/amp. But, I don't know exactly what to expect from its amp section and how it stands against vali/lyr2/or ...


----------



## Phishin Phool

Lyr2 and bottlehead are great choices . I also recommend looking at the options from Garage1217.com  
 Like Schiit they are a small manufacturer who turn out high quality amps at great prices either in kit form or pre-built by them using American sourced arts labor as much as possible . 
 I have a project Sunrise II amp from them and I love it. (going on about 2 years now)
 One really nice thing about them is they are highly configurable allowing you to adjust the output impedance to better match your headphone. Allow both 6v and 12v tube rolling in their tube amps. They are just now starting to offer an aluminum chassis instead of the clear acrylic one in the past if that is of interest. For $200-$300 you can get a great amp built by them and delivered


----------



## skyline315

heart banger-97 said:


> Hi guys,
> Can somebody recommend an upgrade to Vali?
> Lyr2 or bottlehead can be considered as a complete upgrade?


 
  
 Valhalla 2 if it suits your headphones.


----------



## heart banger-97

phishin phool said:


> Lyr2 and bottlehead are great choices . I also recommend looking at the options from Garage1217.com
> Like Schiit they are a small manufacturer who turn out high quality amps at great prices either in kit form or pre-built by them using American sourced arts labor as much as possible .
> I have a project Sunrise II amp from them and I love it. (going on about 2 years now)
> One really nice thing about them is they are highly configurable allowing you to adjust the output impedance to better match your headphone. Allow both 6v and 12v tube rolling in their tube amps. They are just now starting to offer an aluminum chassis instead of the clear acrylic one in the past if that is of interest. For $200-$300 you can get a great amp built by them and delivered


 
  
  


skyline315 said:


> Valhalla 2 if it suits your headphones.


 
 Thank you. I think, I need to decide on headphone first. Currently, I'm strugling between he560 and T1. I've asked here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711824/hifiman-he-560-impressions-discussion-thread/12465#post_11451074


----------



## TwinACStacks

My own Personal Choices would be, (excuse the Bias because I own them) An AKG either K701 or K702, Sen HD600, ( I actually prefer them to the HD 650's that I recently sold.) and for Earphones I'm in love with my Senn IE8's with about 400 Hrs on them. I can't see needing different phones, I'm happy with these.
  
 Yes, I know these are at totally opposite ends of the spectrum. But if I want to get clinical, I go AKG as they reveal EVERYTHING in a recording,  or for just listening the Senns with their veil.
  








 TWIN


----------



## skyline315

heart banger-97 said:


> Thank you. I think, I need to decide on headphone first. Currently, I'm strugling between he560 and T1. I've asked here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711824/hifiman-he-560-impressions-discussion-thread/12465#post_11451074


 
  The 560s are significantly trickier to drive.  And you wouldn't want to go with the Vali or Valhalla in that case.  Something beefier like the Lyr 2 would be in order.
  
 The T1 would probably pair quite nicely with the Valhalla 2.
  
 Don't be afraid to look lower for your headphones.  I'd recommend a used HE-500, personally, but there are a lot of good options out there and it all depends on your preferred sound signature.


----------



## RedBull

phishin phool said:


> Lyr2 and bottlehead are great choices . I also recommend looking at the options from Garage1217.com
> Like Schiit they are a small manufacturer who turn out high quality amps at great prices either in kit form or pre-built by them using American sourced arts labor as much as possible .
> I have a project Sunrise II amp from them and I love it. (going on about 2 years now)
> One really nice thing about them is they are highly configurable allowing you to adjust the output impedance to better match your headphone. Allow both 6v and 12v tube rolling in their tube amps. They are just now starting to offer an aluminum chassis instead of the clear acrylic one in the past if that is of interest. For $200-$300 you can get a great amp built by them and delivered




Agree with Garage1217 amps as other option. I've beem very happy with the performance. 
Match very well with hd650 using 6dj8 tube, very 3d holographic, deeeep soundstage.
Very configurable amp, tons of tube types can be used.
That's said, i am happy with both vali and ember.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the Vali very tubey and warm?


----------



## Billheiser

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the Vali very tubey and warm?


 

 No.  It's neutral and straight line frequency response, plus a little bit tubey and warm.


----------



## RedBull

Depends on the tube used in Ember, Vali is more tubey (in a good way) than Ember. 
I use 6dj8 in Ember in this context.


----------



## acap13

i have a question regarding the caps used in the vali circuit.
 2 of the caps supposed to be gold in colour caps.but mine was mild blue in color..
 is that Schiit was informing anything regarding this replacement of caps anywhere?
 any idea anyone?


----------



## Billheiser

acap13 said:


> i have a question regarding the caps used in the vali circuit.
> 2 of the caps supposed to be gold in colour caps.but mine was mild blue in color..
> is that Schiit was informing anything regarding this replacement of caps anywhere?
> any idea anyone?


 

 No idea.  Are you assuming exterior color of gold is correct and blue is incorrect?  Email Schiit directly.


----------



## acap13

billheiser said:


> No idea.  Are you assuming exterior color of gold is correct and blue is incorrect?  Email Schiit directly.


 
 i have emailed them and i got this reply :
  
"It was likely a substitute for a shortage or discontinued part during production. It will meet or beat both specifications and quality of the original part."
  
seems really nice and no wonder i bought it without concerning the different part used..because it sounds really majestic for the price.thats all i can say for now.


----------



## betula

What desktop amp could you recommend with similar sq and price to the Vali, but with (good quality) bass boost function for certain genres occasionally?


----------



## acap13

betula said:


> What desktop amp could you recommend with similar sq and price to the Vali, but with (good quality) bass boost function for certain genres occasionally?


 
 i dont have so many experience with amps and Vali is my first ever amps i bought if u asked me.
 if u wanna have something sounds like Vali and almost same price,u would want to have a try on Objective 2 by JDS Labs and Matrix M-Stage HPA 2 for solid state amps..for tube amps,could try Little Dot mk III..however,im not so sure bout bass boost amps for desktop amps in this price range.


----------



## Phishin Phool

I agree you will not find a bass boost on amps in that range (desktop that is - some Fiio portables have a bass boost). Not even a lot of more expensive desktop amps have bass boosts. Typically you will see gain switches but amps tend to try and give a flat frequency response . IMHO ypou are best off using an eq in software for the opccasional bass boost if you want one. Just use a player program that allows you to set  or store an eq setting or has pre-sets that suit you and use that for those occasions.


----------



## pearljam50000

In what way is the Vali better than Magni 2?


----------



## Eee Pee

Little softer on the ears.  Thanks tubes.


----------



## JohnBal

pearljam50000 said:


> In what way is the Vali better than Magni 2?




The Vali may be a bit different sounding than the Magni 2, but "better" will depend on your equipment and listening priorities.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> Little softer on the ears.  Thanks tubes.


 
 Get an A/B switch and try comparing that way. Relying on memory or anecdotes is not the best practice.


----------



## Eee Pee

Had a Vali and Magni on RCA Y splitter and two Senn headphones.  I'm good.
  
 Edit:  Come to think of it, we also had a Vali and Magni coming out of my CD player which has two RCA outs.  
  
 In other words, been down that road.  Quite apparent to everyone in the room.


----------



## pearljam50000

lol
OK no need to get angry.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> Had a Vali and Magni on RCA Y splitter and two Senn headphones.  I'm good.
> 
> Edit:  Come to think of it, we also had a Vali and Magni coming out of my CD player which has two RCA outs.
> 
> In other words, been down that road.  Quite apparent to everyone in the room.


 
 One needs to connect the headphones with an A/B switch. I didn't hear much of a difference, except the Vali had trouble on transients when playing loudly through my HE-500's.


----------



## pearljam50000

The Magni has more power, do you think this is the reason?


stand said:


> One needs to connect the headphones with an A/B switch. I didn't hear much of a difference, except the Vali had trouble on transients when playing loudly through my HE-500's.


----------



## StanD

pearljam50000 said:


> The Magni has more power, do you think this is the reason?


 
 When the volume's were matched and within limits they sound very much alike. The Magni has at least 3 dB of of additional headroom with the HE-500's. Nothing huge which is why I had to turn up the volume to get some distortion. IMO, you can't lose with either amp, I happen to prefer pure SS.


----------



## Eee Pee

No anger at all, they're just headphones and all that.  And this is fun.
  
 Quote:


stand said:


> I didn't hear much of a difference, except the Vali had trouble on transients when playing loudly through my HE-500's.


 
  
 "Much", but there is one.  And that "trouble on transients" is what I'm talking about.  Softer on the ears, as I said.
  
 I also happen to hear the glare many others talk about but, hey, that's just me.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> "Much", but there is one.  And that "trouble on transients" is what I'm talking about.  Softer on the ears, as I said.
> 
> I also happen to hear the glare many others talk about but, hey, that's just me.


 
 I found that the Magni was able handle the transients when playing loudly through the HE-500's without any issues. The Vali had the issues. Turn down the volume and no problems. Like I said, either amp should be pleasing.


----------



## Nauglanch

In a far earlier post I noted no microphonics from my DT-770 Pro 250 ohm with the Vali.
  
 I recently completed a MS-1000 build.  I can hear the microphonics very clearly with the MS-1000. I can only hear them from a stout insertion of the phono plug or rapping on the case. Touching the map or adjusting volume still has no microphonics for me.
  
 The nominal impedance of the base Alessandro MS-1 is 32 ohms so I'd suppose any low impedance phones, certainly Grado, would be susceptible. My Beyer 770 Pro's are 250 ohm and are silent.


----------



## RedBull

pearljam50000 said:


> In what way is the Vali better than Magni 2?


 
  
  
 When comparing audio gear, I seldom like to use 'better' as it is highly subjective from ear to ear from song to song.
 For my preference, I prefer Vali than Magni, it's a little smoother in the vocal, Magni vocal is a little dryer, but my friend loves Magni more because Magni bass is faster and he like electronica musics.


----------



## Billheiser

redbull said:


> When comparing audio gear, I seldom like to use 'better' as it is highly subjective from ear to ear from song to song.
> For my preference, I prefer Vali than Magni, it's a little smoother in the vocal, Magni vocal is a little dryer, but my friend loves Magni more because Magni bass is faster and he like electronica musics.



Agree, "better" is not a simple thing. I had both Magni and Vali, and with time spent, found I liked the Vali considerably more. Differences are not big, yet are significant, imho. It's like getting to know people - they can seem indistinguishable when you first meet and "compare" them. But over time, due to hard to define factors, I like Valarie more than I do Margie.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Agree, "better" is not a simple thing. I had both Magni and Vali, and with time spent, found I liked the Vali considerably more. Differences are not big, yet are significant, imho. It's like getting to know people - they can seem indistinguishable when you first meet and "compare" them. But over time, due to hard to define factors, I like Valarie more than I do Margie.


 
 And yet I felt the opposite. I still have both, but the Vali doesn't get to see many electrons. Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## fireandflame

Hey guys, I'm currently using the q701's with an Arcam rPac DAC/Amp unit. I'm craving a warmer sound, but I don't want to buy a different set of headphones. So I'm thinking of getting a Vali and using that as an amp, while using the rPac just for it's DAC. Should the Vali deliver a warmer, less fatiguing sound with my setup?


----------



## Mr Rick

fireandflame said:


> Hey guys, I'm currently using the q701's with an Arcam rPac DAC/Amp unit. I'm craving a warmer sound, but I don't want to buy a different set of headphones. So I'm thinking of getting a Vali and using that as an amp, while using the rPac just for it's DAC. Should the Vali deliver a warmer, less fatiguing sound with my setup?


 
 No, I wouldn't classify the Vali as a warm amp. All the Schiit amps are rather neutral. BTW I also have the Q701s.


----------



## betula

fireandflame said:


> Hey guys, I'm currently using the q701's with an Arcam rPac DAC/Amp unit. I'm craving a warmer sound, but I don't want to buy a different set of headphones. So I'm thinking of getting a Vali and using that as an amp, while using the rPac just for it's DAC. Should the Vali deliver a warmer, less fatiguing sound with my setup?


 

 I think, it definitely will deliver a warmer sound. Not as warm as a real tube amp, cause Vali is hybrid amp. So it gives you some warmth of the tubes, while keeping the clarity of ss. It is a really great amp, competing with amps that cost 3-4x of the Vali. I would definitely give it a try if I were in your shoes. And it is not warm enough, no other option left than buying a warmer headphone. (Or a real tube amp that cost 3-4 times more.)
 (Just do not forget, for the great sound at this price point you have to make some little compromises with the Vali: it is ringing for 30 seconds when switching on, and it is not for low impedance headphones.)
 But the sound it delivers is unbeatable for the price.


----------



## RedBull

If we are referring to ringing only, my Vali is actually fine for low impedance phones like sa3000 and ma900, even grado. After awhile, i don't hear any ringing anymore.


----------



## betula

I was not referring to ringing with low impedance headphones but hiss. Hiss is mentioned with low impedance headphones many places. Especially IEMs. But Shiit itself also says this regarding Vali.


----------



## RedBull

Ah, I never tried on IEM, but low impedance headphone should be fine.


----------



## StanD

betula said:


> I was not referring to ringing with low impedance headphones but hiss. Hiss is mentioned with low impedance headphones many places. Especially IEMs. But Shiit itself also says this regarding Vali.


 
 The noise depends on the sensitivity of the headphones. There's no issues with noise and my HE-500's, they are low impedance.


----------



## Lupino

Any idea how what the noise would be like with a RE-600? According to HIFIMAN it specs out at  16 ohms for impedance and Sensitivity: 102 dB/mW.
 Thanks.


----------



## StanD

lupino said:


> Any idea how what the noise would be like with a RE-600? According to HIFIMAN it specs out at  16 ohms for impedance and Sensitivity: 102 dB/mW.
> Thanks.


 
 I could hear noise when using a Sennheiser HD558 which has an impedance of 50 Ohms and a sensitivity of 112 dB/1V RMS or 99 dB/mW. I could also hear noise with Sennheiser Momentum Over Ears which are 18 Ohms, however, they spec the sensitivity at 110 dB but fail to specify if that is per mW or 1V RMS.


----------



## betula

Some low impedance headphones have this issue, some do not. With my 300 Ohm HD600 Vali is just perfect.


----------



## StanD

betula said:


> Some low impedance headphones have this issue, some do not. With my 300 Ohm HD600 Vali is just perfect.


 
 It's the headohone's or IEM's sensitivity not imedance that determines how we hear the ambient noise of the amp. If noise is an issue then the Magni which is quieter and has a gain switch would solve it.


----------



## skyline315

stand said:


> The noise depends on the sensitivity of the headphones. There's no issues with noise and my HE-500's, they are low impedance.


 
  
 I can confirm no noise on the 500s.
  
 There is a good deal background hiss with the DT1350, however.  It's not really noticeable while music is playing, which is a plus, but I very rarely use the 1350s with this amp.


----------



## bigbenrfan99

lupino said:


> Any idea how what the noise would be like with a RE-600? According to HIFIMAN it specs out at  16 ohms for impedance and Sensitivity: 102 dB/mW.
> Thanks.


 
 I have heard the RE-600 with the Vali.  It sounds great, but the noise floor makes it unlistenable (and I can easily tolerate the hiss with my Grado SR325is).  I probably listen to music at an average or maybe slightly above average volume, and the hiss is just about as loud as the music.


----------



## Lupino

bigbenrfan99 said:


> I have heard the RE-600 with the Vali.  It sounds great, but the noise floor makes it unlistenable (and I can easily tolerate the hiss with my Grado SR325is).  I probably listen to music at an average or maybe slightly above average volume, and the hiss is just about as loud as the music.


 

 Thanks for the answer...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Using the HE500 which benefits from current will obviously play to the Magni's strengths, not the Valis. In this instance, I find the comparison questionable. You need to find a headphone that can play to BOTH the amp's strengths. The Vali is not the most ideal amp for current favored headphones like the older HFM planars. Vali is better at voltage rather than current. A higher impedance, more voltage driven headphone like an HD600/HD650 would be better suited as a comparison, as both the Vali and Magni will do well with it.

Having heard/owned the Magni, Lyr, Vali (and lent an Asgard 2), I find the Vali to be the best of the bunch. Had the most musical, and engaging sound.


----------



## elwappo99

stand said:


> betula said:
> 
> 
> > I was not referring to ringing with low impedance headphones but hiss. Hiss is mentioned with low impedance headphones many places. Especially IEMs. But Shiit itself also says this regarding Vali.
> ...


 
  
 Definitely this for the Vali. It comes down to sensitivity of the earphone or headphone. You'll hear a hiss with super sensitive earphones and headphones, but for most there won't be an issue. I actually really like the HE500 with my Vali as well. The Vali sounds so clean and smooth, it mushes really well with the HE500.


----------



## RedBull

mad lust envy said:


> Having heard/owned the Magni, Lyr, Vali (and lent an Asgard 2), I find the Vali to be the best of the bunch. Had the most musical, and engaging sound.


 
  
 I like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Something about Vali that make it sounds good.  I like one good word to describe Vali sound, .. wet.


----------



## rs0cal

Does anyone know if the Vali will pair well with the Audeze El-8 open headphones in comparisons to the magni 2 über ? 

I wanna try out the Vali but am hesitant with the hissing sound supposedly with planars


----------



## betula

rs0cal said:


> Does anyone know if the Vali will pair well with the Audeze El-8 open headphones in comparisons to the magni 2 über ?
> 
> I wanna try out the Vali but am hesitant with the hissing sound supposedly with planars


 

 I do not have personal experience with Audeze, neither with Magni 2 über.
 But I know, some LCD-2 owners are pretty impressed with Vali for the price.
 Also, if I had the money for an Audeze (even the El-8) probably I would go for something "more serious":
 (Asgard 2, Valhalla 2 or even Lyr 2)


----------



## RedBull

Vali is a serious gear 

Some impression says that Vali is better than Lyr with stock tube.


----------



## betula

redbull said:


> Vali is a serious gear
> 
> Some impression says that Vali is better than Lyr with stock tube.


 

 yes, I know. many review say Vali beats other amps that cost 3-4 times more...
 I also love my Vali. but I would love to try Lyr 2 though...


----------



## StanD

betula said:


> yes, I know. many review say Vali beats other amps that cost 3-4 times more...
> I also love my Vali. but *I would love to try Lyr 2 *though...


 
 That should be easy.


----------



## RedBull

I'd love to hear lyr 2 but it's a pity none selling at around my area. I heard lyr 1 with lcd 2, but only briefly.


----------



## PWGuy

What about Vali compared to Valhalla 2? I'm going with V2 now, after being set on the Vali for my HD600s since I've read enough reviews of both that say the bass is tighter and more impacting with the V2 vs. Vali. That's enough of a reason for me with the HD600s. Anyone ACTUALLY compare these two specifically yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BobFiggins

pwguy said:


> What about Vali compared to Valhalla 2? I'm going with V2 now, after being set on the Vali for my HD600s since I've read enough reviews of both that say the bass is tighter and more impacting with the V2 vs. Vali. That's enough of a reason for me with the HD600s. Anyone ACTUALLY compare these two specifically yet?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
  
 I'll paste here what I said in the HD700 thread:
  


bobfiggins said:


> I had the Valhalla 2, but settled with Vali after a lot of listening. Valhalla 2 won't add much to the bottom end, except for a harder hitting, and tighter impact in the upper bass (still no sub-bass). What I found odd was how some people thought the Vali and Valhalla 2 would be really similar sounding and was confused why I even went with Vali instead. To me they sound very different from each other. Valhalla 2 had a hard hitting impact, especially with drum & bass, to the point of it being fatiguing. The Vali was much more smooth and easier on the ears. Also for a tube amp the Valhalla 2 was very bright, adding sibilance into tracks that wouldn't display it with the Vali. Mainly tracks with female vocals.
> 
> Returning the Valhalla 2 and sticking with Vali was a difficult decision, but in the end I'm satisfied I let it go.


 
  
 I didn't say much or go into a whole lot of detail. Though I felt that the Valhalla 2 was the most engaging, best PRAT amp I've heard so far. Though it took it to a level that was so intense that my ears would be ringing the next day after listening. Mind you, to me the V2 was a bright amp, and paired with a bright headphone (HD700), it wasn't the best combination for me being sensitive to high freq treble. It reminds me of a SS amp, except without any of the dryness.
  
 Would actually love to hear the HD600 with the V2, would probably be a great combo.


----------



## betula

Maybe not the right place to ask, but as the discussion is about amps right now, I give it a try. 

  Most of the time I listen to my HD600 with Vali, and the source is the X3 line out. I recently upgraded to X3 2nd gen, and I love the sound. It is a huge improvement over the 1st gen. (Much more refined, detailed, clear, etc.) However occasionally I miss the extra bass of the old X3. (Even its line out has more bass, but it has a hardware bass eq as well.) 80% of the time I do not need this extra, but with certain electronic music genres it would be nice. 
  I do not like the software eq neither on the old, nor on the new X3. I also do not want to eq the sound on my laptop, and use X3 as a dac. With all of this three options I get a much worse sound as I get from the pure line out. So the only option can be some hardware eq, most likely an other amp with hardware eq.
  I have been looking at Fiio e12a, as it has a bass knob. This might could help sometimes. I just do not know, how the e12a's sound could compete with Vali. Also, I want a desktop amp rather than a portable one...
  Any suggestions?
 (No, I do not want to go back to old X3, and I do not really want to keep more than one player/amp...)


----------



## StanD

I don't believe in bright amps, they have a flat FR. I do believe in bright headphones, something that an amp cannot truly change.


----------



## Tunkejazz

Shall we expect a "Vali 2" any time soon? I am considering placing an order, but I would not be happy if a new version came out in a few months!


----------



## Mr Rick

tunkejazz said:


> Shall we expect a "Vali 2" any time soon? I am considering placing an order, but I would not be happy if a new version came out in a few months!


 
  
 Jason said no upgrades in 2015.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stand said:


> I don't believe in bright amps, they have a flat FR. I do believe in bright headphones, something that an amp cannot truly change.




I certainly believe in bright amps. the OG Magni, and my X7's amp are absolutely, undeniably leaning on brightness.


----------



## StanD

mad lust envy said:


> I certainly believe in bright amps. the OG Magni, and my X7's amp are absolutely, undeniably leaning on brightness.


 
 I disagee. I've A/B'd the Magni with several amps using different headphones using a switch. Exactly what property of an amp would make the Magni bright?


----------



## ginetto61

stand said:


> I don't believe in bright amps, they have a flat FR. I do believe in *bright headphones,* something that an amp cannot truly change.


 
  
 Hi just to say that i agree
 just looking at their freq response gives some explanation of the brightness
  
 Moreover also digital sources can be quite bright, hard and harsh.
 In this sense of course solid state amp can make the things worse while tubes are more forgiving.
 Digital is a difficult beast indeed.
 Is difficult to get it really right and all the discussions going on after almost 30 years from its birth demonstrate.
 Kind regards,  gino


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has been said plenty of times that the Magni is slightly bright. As is Schiit's balanced amp, etc. It is not a secret.

We;re not talking traditional EQ boosting brightness. Just subtle enough to make headphones just a hair brighter.

This is not coming solely from me. This has been known for quite some time.

I find it inconceivable that people would think ALL amps have a flat FR. Hell, like I said, my X7 has a DOCUMENTED bass roll off of less than a decibel. Yes, it's minute, but it is THERE. It favors the opposite side of the sound spectrum.


----------



## StanD

mad lust envy said:


> It has been said plenty of times that the Magni is slightly bright. As is Schiit's balanced amp, etc. It is not a secret.
> 
> We;re not talking traditional EQ boosting brightness. Just subtle enough to make headphones just a hair brighter.
> 
> ...


 
 The Magni's FR is: *20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db*, 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB
 If that's not flat nothing is. The X7 has nothing to do with the Magni so I have no idea why you brought that up as an example. IMO too many people are repeating the same story and it's taken on a life of its own. No human being on the Earth can hear 0.1 dB difference or anything near that. Most decent amps have a flat FR, as it is very easy to achieve.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In any case,m if you're juding athe tonality of an amp by just measurements, may as well quit this hobby now. Practically ALL amps measure completely flat, yet people will tell you just how one amp is warm and the other is bright. You may not hear it, doesn't make it less true. Same with dacs.


----------



## ginetto61

Hi well maybe you are both right.
 Problem is that in general are measured with a standard load, i guess a pure resistance.
 Headphones are hardly pure resistances so the amps can distort with a particular and complex load.
 We should measure all the chain.
 It is complex i mean.
 Kind regards,  gino


----------



## StanD

@Mad Lust Envy Flat is flat, you still have to identify a property that makes it otherwise and cannot. This is simple stuff, not rocket science. Perhaps it's placebo?
  
@ginetto61 Planar cans are resisitive loads, so that can't be it in your proposed scenario. Most dynamic headphones that have impedance humps have it in the bass or mid bass and can only be so affected by amps with high output impedances, far higher than either the Magni or Vali. The load is not all that complex, look at the impedance curve, especially for a planar as below.


----------



## RedBull

But why are we hearing different sound from amp to amp if they are all flat?
Or unless you don’t hear any different at all?


----------



## Mr Rick

redbull said:


> But why are we hearing different sound from amp to amp if they are all flat?
> Or unless you don’t hear any different at all?


 
 My Magni sounds the same as my Vali, which sounds the same as my Asgard, which sounds the same as my Valhalla, which sounds the same as my Lyr.
  
 You're absolutely correct. I hear no difference at all.


----------



## Tunkejazz

redbull said:


> But why are we hearing different sound from amp to amp if they are all flat?
> Or unless you don’t hear any different at all?




Not being an engineer, I can imagine that temporal coherence of the signal may play a role here (?)


----------



## Mr Rick

tunkejazz said:


> Not being an engineer, I can imagine that temporal coherence of the signal may play a role here (?)


 
  
 Ok, would you like to explain temporal coherence to us??


----------



## Tunkejazz

Umm not really, I think I am mixing things up.
  
 But I do refer you to the following thread where the same kind of discussion about NAim amps was vaguely explained by someone who seem to know. I am not sure if this is allowed here, it is not my intention to offend anyone.
  
 http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2431804&postcount=38


----------



## Tunkejazz

I think the relevant part is this:
_"Frequency response into perfect loads does not indicate time domain performance into real loads, so anyone claiming Naim amps. have a flat frequency response as a defence of there treble performance lacks the understanding of the importance of Phase margins and time domain performance when driving "complex" loads."_
  
 Once again, sorry if I messed up the terminology, as I said, I am no engineer


----------



## StanD

tunkejazz said:


> I think the relevant part is this:
> _"Frequency response into perfect loads does not indicate time domain performance into real loads, so anyone claiming Naim amps. have a flat frequency response as a defence of there treble performance lacks the understanding of the importance of Phase margins and time domain performance when driving "complex" loads."_
> 
> Once again, sorry if I messed up the terminology, as I said, I am no engineer


 
 Gee as I've shown that the impedance curve of a planar headphone is flat as can be, that means that type of headphone does not have a complex load, at all. In fact headphones aren't all that complex as far as loads go, especially in the range of audio frequencies. They don't have crossover networks and multiple drivers as loudspeakers do. Too many people arespending too much time making too much hay of nothing. Some folks might be hearing what they want to hear.


----------



## RedBull

mr rick said:


> My Magni sounds the same as my Vali, which sounds the same as my Asgard, which sounds the same as my Valhalla, which sounds the same as my Lyr.
> 
> You're absolutely correct. I hear no difference at all.




Yeah Mr. Rick, yeah. In fact, we don't even need an external amp, just plug directly to PC or laptop or TV will do.


----------



## StanD

redbull said:


> Yeah Mr. Rick, yeah


 
 Yes indeed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

redbull said:


> Yeah Mr. Rick, yeah. In fact, we don't even need an external amp, just plug directly to PC or laptop or TV will do.




It's all flat and the vast majority of amps allm sound the exact same. Our hobby is one big lie, and we should all just get a Magni because it will sound the same as all other flat SS amps.

Someone certainly doesn't have good enough ears if the Magni sounds the same as the Vali.


What a joke.


The Magni was my least favorite desktop amp. The Vali is my fave, even after owning stuff like the Audio-GD SA-31 and Lyr.
I love the Vali. It has special quality to it's tonality that the Magni completely lacked.

But yes, the same.


----------



## Mr Rick

mad lust envy said:


> It's all flat and the vast majority of amps allm sound the exact same. Our hobby is one big lie, and we should all just get a Magni because it will sound the same as all other flat SS amps.
> 
> Someone certainly doesn't have good enough ears if the Magni sounds the same as the Vali.
> 
> ...


 
 Why is it that I can hear the difference between my HD650s and HD800s?
  
 Or, between my K712s and my Q701s?
  
 Or between my X2s and BT880 / 600s?
  
 I'll tell you why, because there is a measurable difference in frequency response between my headphones, and I can hear that difference.
  
 With my amplifiers there is no measurable difference in frequency response. So, should I be surprised that I am hearing no difference between them?  No, because what my ears hear is that *lack *of difference.  
  
 I know that for some it's like being told that there is no Santa Claus, but hey, it is what it is.


----------



## StanD

mad lust envy said:


> It's all flat and the vast majority of amps allm sound the exact same. Our hobby is one big lie, and we should all just get a Magni because it will sound the same as all other flat SS amps.
> 
> Someone certainly doesn't have good enough ears if the Magni sounds the same as the Vali.
> 
> ...


 
 You still can't identify the property of an amp that makes it sound different yet only offer hand waving as an answer. As Mr Rick says, I can also hear the differences in all of my headphones and IEMs. Well one thing one can hear different in the Vali is when one raises the volume to very loud levels it will distort earlier then the Magni, but that's at an uncomfortable level for most headphones, that shouldn't be a problem for most people.


----------



## RedBull

Btw, what amps are you using StanD?


----------



## jimmers

redbull said:


> Btw, what amps are you using StanD?


 

 I think it's one with a flat frequency response that sounds exactly like all the others


----------



## Tunkejazz

I have to admit that I was almost set to order the Vali. But some of the points raised by StanD and Mr. Rick make me doubt. I have the HE400i, and I quite like them. I just want to get a big enjoyable sound out of them. The problem of living in Europe is that demoing these amps is not as easy as "order both and return one of them later".
  
 I just know that I cannot stand any hint of brightness on the treeble. I am not saying that the Magni-2 is bright. Just saying that I would like to take home the one with the sweetest upper end. I also value good bottom end drive 
  
 Once again back at square 1 
  
 EDIT: Just ordered the Vali from schiit-europe. If the Vali and the Magni 2 are so close anyway, I cannot go wrong.


----------



## RedBull

I ordered Vali without being able to listen first.
What i did was, I read impressions A LOT and decide if that is the sound coloring that you think you will like. Then, gut feeling come into play. 
There's a risk for everything my friend. 

Vali didn't fail me at all. Its mids smootheness really a pleasant to listen. It pairs with hd800 very well, despite its weaknesses, anyway, all amps have weaknesses.


----------



## RedBull

tunkejazz said:


> EDIT: Just ordered the Vali from schiit-europe. If the Vali and the Magni 2 are so close anyway, I cannot go wrong.




Way to go!! Enjoy!


----------



## zephex

Any comparisions with the Asgard 2?


----------



## StanD

zephex said:


> Any comparisions with the Asgard 2?


 
 I have a Magni, Vali and Asgard 2, among others. One would be hard pressed to tell any differences when in theor linear regions (not clipping or distorting). I compared using an A/B switch rather attempting to rely on human Echoic memory which pasts a few seconds or relying on anecdotes. I've compared to a Woo wA-5 and other amps that cost thousands of dollars and all of these amps have distortion levels far below what a human being can percieve. All of them have flat FR. The only thing that is not flat is a human's imagination and suseptability to the flash mob's songs and the marketing hype one reads.


----------



## Mr Rick

stand said:


> I have a Magni, Vali and Asgard 2, among others. One would be hard pressed to tell any differences when in theor linear regions (not clipping or distorting). I compared using an A/B switch rather attempting to rely on human Echoic memory which pasts a few seconds or relying on anecdotes. I've compared to a Woo wA-5 and other amps that cost thousands of dollars and all of these amps have distortion levels far below what a human being can percieve. All of them have flat FR. The only thing that is not flat is a human's imagination and suseptability to the flash mob's songs and the marketing hype one reads.


 
  
 I have the Magni, Vali, Asgard, Valhalla and Lyr. My experience is the same as Stan. Buy any Schiit amp in confidence.


----------



## StanD

mr rick said:


> I have the Magni, Vali, Asgard, Valhalla and Lyr. My experience is the same as Stan. Buy any Schiit amp in confidence.


 
 +1 Good advice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Marketing hype. Lol

Had the Asgard 2 in my house, as well as the Vali. Preferred the Vali. Didn't care for the Asgard 2. End of story. Didn't sound the same to me, but what do I know? I'm a mindless drone.


----------



## StanD

mad lust envy said:


> Marketing hype. Lol
> 
> Had the Asgard 2 in my house, as well as the Vali. Preferred the Vali. Didn't care for the Asgard 2. End of story. Didn't sound the same to me, but what do I know? I'm a mindless drone.


 
 Hand waving doesn't work for me. *You still can't give a reason and name the distinguishing property*. This is not rocket science, it's very simple engineering that has matured over decades. No acoustics or other intangibles. The human mind is easy to convince, our senses are easy to fool. On the flip side many tube afficianodos of pricier amps will scoff at the Vali or Lyr2 or any amps not sporting a lofty price and marketing mumbo jumbo. If you don't care for the Asgard 2 or other amps, enjoy your Vali.


----------



## RedBull

If you can't hear any difference, will you then sell all more expensive amps and only get the Magni? Why waste on higher priced amps?


----------



## StanD

redbull said:


> If you can't hear any difference, will you then sell all more expensive amps and only get the Magni? Why waste on higher priced amps?


 
 I borrowed most of the high rollers from friends for several weeks or even a few months. I did get rid of my overpriced stuff. In the Schiit pile of amps are a Vali, Magni and Asgard 2. I have multiple listening stations so I use the Asgard 2 and Magni the most. If you're interested in picking up one of my other overrpiced amps, you're too late.


----------



## Mr Rick

redbull said:


> If you can't hear any difference, will you then sell all more expensive amps and only get the Magni? Why waste on higher priced amps?


 
 Here is a quote from the Schiit web site:
  
When we say “this is the only headphone amp you may ever need,” we mean it. Magni 2 builds on the performance of Magni, with even more refined sound and versatility, while Magni 2 Uber is now a complete desktop control center with preamp capability and even more power.
  
  
 I'm keeping all my amps because they have different features, or use different topologies, or have different form factors. I'll soon be receiving a Schiit Mjolnir. It will allow me to use a range of HPs with balanced cables, A capability I do not currently have. I'll eventually buy a Gungnir DAC to match the Mojo.  And, if I win the lotto I'll get a Ragnarok and Yggdrasil so I may explore the capabilities and features of those products.
  
 No waste, just the thrill of experiencing and evaluating new things.  Variety is the spice of life.


----------



## Eee Pee

mr rick said:


> Variety is the spice of life.


 
  
 What variety is there if they sound the same?  Other than preamp outs I guess.
  
 No need to bother to type when there's a basic principle why they sound different already out there.
  
 The most reliable source on the internet! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_sound


----------



## Mr Rick

eee pee said:


> The most reliable source on the internet!


 
  
 This made me LOL.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> What variety is there if they sound the same?  Other than preamp outs I guess.
> 
> No need to bother to type when there's a basic principle why they sound different already out there.
> 
> The most reliable source on the internet! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_sound


 
  
  


mr rick said:


> This made me LOL.


 
 I laughed so hard I almost _peed_. A lot of the info in Wikipedia is correct but there's an easy path for BS to creep in. Cite Wikipedia  in a paper and you'll probably get an "F" for doing that.


----------



## heart banger-97

Honestly, I can hear difference between amp of my fiio x5 and my vali. I don't know how my brain is fooled. But for me, dac section of X5 was better than modi (while modi had a little bigger soundstage). On the other hand, Vali was better than amp section of x5. I don't know how is it possible for my brain to be fooled. They are in same price range. I prefer one desktop gear (vali) over a portable one (amp of x5) and I prefer one portable (dac of x5) over one desktop (modi).
  
 On the other hand, if we only rely on frequency response, what is the point of buying higher end headphone? you can be perfectly happy with er4s.
  
 @Mr Rick do you use balance cables only for sake of experiencing?


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> Honestly, I can hear difference between amp of my fiio x5 and my vali. I don't know how my brain is fooled. But for me, dac section of X5 was better than modi (while modi had a little bigger soundstage). On the other hand, Vali was better than amp section of x5. I don't know how is it possible for my brain to be fooled. They are in same price range. I prefer one desktop gear (vali) over a portable one (amp of x5) and I prefer one portable (dac of x5) over one desktop (modi).
> 
> On the other hand, if we only rely on frequency response, what is the point of buying higher end headphone? you can be perfectly happy with er4s.
> 
> @Mr Rick do you use balance cables only for sake of experiencing?


 
 Headphones do not have a flat FR, they also have different transient responses, acoustic characteristics and all sorts of different situations. Amps are far simpler, headphones make the biggest difference in sound,
 Once we get to the higher impedances, the X5 has far less power than the Vali. If you're using an HD600, it get's apparent, quickly. Unless you an A/B with a switch, within seconds, the fine details of comparing becomes sketchy, that's just a human condition.


----------



## Mr Rick

heart banger-97 said:


> @Mr Rick do you use balance cables only for sake of experiencing?


 
  
 Yes, what other reason could there be. After all, all cables sound alike. 
  
 I'm retired, I have the money. Why not ?


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> Headphones do not have a flat FR, they also have different transient responses, acoustic characteristics and all sorts of different situations. Amps are far simpler, headphones make the biggest difference in sound,
> Once we get to the higher impedances, the X5 has far less power than the Vali. If you're using an HD600, it get's apparent, quickly. Unless you an A/B with a switch, within seconds, the fine details of comparing becomes sketchy, that's just a human condition.


 
 If you use a relatively flat headphone (something like er4s) and use some parametric equalizer, you can reach that perfect flat FR. I don't think that there has been any proven premise in sound science which claims that science knows everything about amps. How do you show soundstage on dacs, amps, or headphones?
 I was using my w4r and z1000. And I reached those results.
  


mr rick said:


> Yes, what other reason could there be. After all, all cables sound alike.
> 
> I'm retired, I have the money. Why not ?


 





 really good point.
 Honestly, I follow an algorithm in this hobby.
 1- If there is a proven point (by science) and I can't hear difference either, I won't do it.
 2- If it hasn't been supported by science, but I can hear difference, I would do it.
 High resolution music files fall in first step. But, dac, amp fall in second step.


----------



## Eee Pee

To try the Mjolnir's Circlotron topology would be the real reason, no? You have no choice other than a balanced cable.


----------



## Mr Rick

eee pee said:


> To try the Mjolnir's Circlotron topology would be the real reason, no? You have no choice other than a balanced cable.


 
  
 That's true, but I'm also getting a Cavalli Liquid Carbon and would like to use the balanced output on that as well as the Sennheiser HDVD600 I'll be getting.
  
 I do love my toys.


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> If you use a relatively flat headphone (something like er4s) and use some parametric equalizer, you can reach that perfect flat FR. I don't think that there has been any proven premise in sound science which claims that science knows everything about amps. How do you show soundstage on dacs, amps, or headphones?
> I was using my w4r and z1000. And I reached those results.
> :


 
 Soundstage is by recorded spacial cues. IMO other than overactive imaginations, of which there are no shortages, it's headphones that recreate soundstage.
 As far as the ER-4S goes, I don't call the below relatively flat, not by any means.


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> Soundstage is by recorded spacial cues. IMO other than overactive imaginations, of which there are no shortages, it's headphones that recreate soundstage.
> As far as the ER-4S goes, I don't call the below relatively flat, not by any means.


 
  
 The graph that you have shown is Raw. Here is the compensated one:

 I know the headphones are recreating soundstage along with dacs and amps. But my point is that if you only believe in graphs and measured data, how do you compare headphones in soundstage? Is there any science clue? is there any diagram which shows how good headphones recreate soundstage? honestly, I don't know any graphs.
 That's why I use my two stage approach in spending money.


----------



## jbarrentine

These threads always make my head hurt. Having just switched earpads a couple of times recently on my T90 I can't tell a difference between any of them. Yet people will go on forever about supposed appreciable differences in such things. There's probably appreciable differences in tube amps and not much else I would imagine _for most people_. SOME people I'm sure can hear more/better than the rest of us. I don't begrudge them that.


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> The graph that you have shown is Raw. Here is the compensated one:
> 
> I know the headphones are recreating soundstage along with dacs and amps. But my point is that if you only believe in graphs and measured data, how do you compare headphones in soundstage? Is there any science clue? is there any diagram which shows how good headphones recreate soundstage? honestly, I don't know any graphs.
> That's why I use my two stage approach in spending money.


 
 Even the compensated one is far from flat, the major indices are at 5 dB. It's easy to see a 10 dB variation below 9 kHz in which the FR takes a nose dive above that. Unlike amps, it's hard to find a headphone or IEM that has anywhere near a purely flat FR.
 Comparing headphones for soundstage is not simple because of the acoustic coupling to one's head, each head is different and perhaps different people will get different results for that as well as FR, Amps are not handicapped by such conditions and are very easy to characterize.


----------



## Eee Pee

stand said:


> Unlike amps, it's hard to find a headphone or IEM that has anywhere near a purely flat FR.


 
  
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-response-curve-research-update
  
 You're on a crusade to convince everyone you're right.  You gotta make ten posts a day saying the same Schiit and a Magni is all anyone needs.  Relax a little.  Might live a little longer.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-response-curve-research-update
> 
> You're on a crusade to convince everyone you're right.  You gotta make ten posts a day saying the same Schiit and a Magni is all anyone needs.  Relax a little.  Might live a little longer.


 
 I'm not on a crusade for anything, just expressing my opinion. If I hit a nerve of yours, that's not my problem, I'm nice and relaxed.


----------



## Mr Rick

eee pee said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-response-curve-research-update
> 
> You're on a crusade to convince everyone you're right.  You gotta make ten posts a day saying the same Schiit and a Magni is all anyone needs.  Relax a little.  Might live a little longer.


 
  
 What are you trying to demonstrate with the above reference ?


----------



## Eee Pee

Headphones aren't supposed to have a flat FR.
  
 Figured StanD might like it because the HD 600 gets pretty close.
  
 Not a single nerve struck Stan, takes a lot more than that.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> Headphones aren't supposed to have a flat FR.
> 
> Figured StanD might like it because the HD 600 gets pretty close.
> 
> Not a single nerve struck Stan, takes a lot more than that.


 
 It takes a tough hide to deal with headfiers, I guess my skin is not thin. FR and headphones is one difficult topic, probably because of not so tangible acoustics and the individual. On the top of my pile of headphones is an HD600. My favorites are the HD600 (known for being neutral) and HE-500.


----------



## RedBull

eee pee said:


> To try the Mjolnir's Circlotron topology would be the real reason, no? You have no choice other than a balanced cable.




Don't bother with technology my friend, they are all sounds the same. Tubes, OTL, transformer output, output/input impedance, it's all a huge conspiracy to fool people.


----------



## StanD

redbull said:


> Don't bother with technology my friend, they are all sounds the same. Tubes, OTL, transformer output, output/input impedance, it's all a huge conspiracy to fool people.


 
 Start saving, sounds like you want to experiment.


----------



## New Yorker

How tedious these "there's no audible difference" arguments are. And they seem to spring up like weeds on forums everywhere. Just saw the same BS in a "discussion" about the SubDude Iso Platform. Sigh. I guess that's life on the internet, where every opinion - no matter how stupid - gets heard. Life without editors to keep out the riffraff.

Anyway, what does this have to do with the Vali? Any moderators out there?


----------



## StanD

new yorker said:


> How tedious these "there's no audible difference" arguments are. And they seem to spring up like weeds on forums everywhere. Just saw the same BS in a "discussion" about the SubDude Iso Platform. Sigh. I guess that's life on the internet, where every opinion - no matter how stupid - gets heard. Life without editors to keep out the riffraff.
> 
> Anyway, what does this have to do with the Vali? Any moderators out there?


 
 Perhaps the moderators/editors would be more interested in your resorting to name calling and attempts of stiffling other people's opinions.


----------



## Mr Rick

New Yorker said:
			
		

> *New Yorker*





> "there's no audible difference"


 
  
 The original question asked for a comparison between the Vali and the Asgard 2. Two of us that actually own both units expressed the opinion, based on our experience,  that there is no audible diifference.
  
 If you would like to purchase the units and do your own testing,  you are free to do so, and then express your own opinion.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No audible difference despite one being tube, one being solid state, different prices from the same company.

Yeah, Schiit may as well just stop selling one, since they're identical.

Let's just make it easy for all the consumers out there.


----------



## RedBull

The tube is just for accesories MLE, so they look nicer.
As for Raggy, they just stuff in any random components they can find, so it look HUGE, so they can sell at higher price.


----------



## StanD

mad lust envy said:


> No audible difference despite one being tube, one being solid state, different prices from the same company.
> 
> Yeah, Schiit may as well just stop selling one, since they're identical.
> 
> Let's just make it easy for all the consumers out there.


 
 Sounds good to me.
 So when you can't identify the property you resort to sarcasm. Nice.


----------



## Eee Pee

We listen to circuits, not wires with gain. 

I would get a kick out of you trying to convince people that bought a Ragnorok it's no different sounding than your Magni. Or a Bottlehead Crack. Or DNA Stratus.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> We listen to circuits, not wires with gain.
> 
> I would get a kick out of you trying to convince people that bought a Ragnorok it's no different sounding than your Magni. Or a Bottlehead Crack. Or DNA Stratus.


 
 Human beings have perceptual limits, once exceeded one cannot tell a difference. That's a hard fact. If you wish to spend a more, go right ahead, that's your decision. Technology improves, but we're still pretty much the same. One can pay more for botique products by small companies that do not manufacture efficiently or not, that's everyone's personal descision.
 Have you done an proper comparison of two amps as per the price spread using an A/B switch? Everyone that I know that has done an honest comparison came away wide eyed as to hearing no differences. I've had friends with multi thousand dollar amps comparing to an Asgard 2 come away surprised.
 Other than headphones, I got rid of Amps and DACs that are overpriced and do not deliver noticeable improvements. Headphones I give away to family and friends.


----------



## Eee Pee

Does a Vali and Mjolnir count? If so the answer is yes and they are instantly recognizable to us at a gathering.

Edit: and the Valhalla was instantly recognizable also.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> Does a Vali and Mjolnir count? If so the answer is yes and they are instantly recognizable to us at a gathering.
> 
> Edit: and the Valhalla was instantly recognizable also.


 
 Yep at a noisy gathering where a proper comparison cannot be done and where many are expecting to hear certain results and thus may think so. Heck I'm not forcing you to believe any different than you are, get whatever you fancy.


----------



## Eee Pee

It was in a silent apartment.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> It was in a silent apartment.


 
 A silent apartment filled with audiophiles? So believe what you want and buy whatever tickles your fancy.


----------



## Eee Pee

Yeah, and gathered to listen. Hard to believe? You can look in the Ohio area and find we did it often. 

Thanks for the go ahead Stan. I wasn't sure.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> Yeah, and gathered to listen. Hard to believe? You can look in the Ohio area and find we did it often.
> 
> Thanks for the go ahead Stan. I wasn't sure.


 
 A silent gathering of audiophiles, never heard of that before.
 Yeah go for it, spending is good for the GDP.
 I don't see anyone identifying the magical property yet.


----------



## Phishin Phool

OT: Eeepee - what part of Ohio you in - I am in NE Ohio (Canton)


----------



## Eee Pee

Stan, circuit topologies, odd/even harmonic distortions, etc. All well documented on this Internet thing. You're practically trolling. Hence my crusade comment. Must tell everyone they're wrong!

Phishin Phool (lol), I'm in Columbus. There's a good gang up by you. They came down a bunch of times.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> Stan, circuit topologies, odd/even harmonic distortions, etc. All well documented on this Internet thing. You're practically trolling. Hence my crusade comment. Must tell everyone they're wrong!
> 
> Phishin Phool (lol), I'm in Columbus. There's a good gang up by you. They came down a bunch of times.


 
 While you're getting technical, study up on *Just Detectable Distortion* (*JDD*). You can find proper research from the AES, James Noir and many others, the lowest numbers are around 0.3%, many others are much higher. Some of the reading is very technical with good details as to the methodologies used for testing. That's just the tip of the iceberg on being human.


----------



## Eee Pee

At ~40 years old, I don't feel the need to learn anymore, nor do I care.  I'm so old I'm stuck in my ways and know what I hear.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks though, maybe when I'm bored silly and gone deaf.  Until then, me any many others will enjoy the differences we hear between different amps.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> At ~40 years old, I don't feel the need to learn anymore, nor do I care.  I'm so old I'm stuck in my ways and know what I hear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm even older, but keep up with tehnology, especially in my field. We'll just have to disagree. Enjoy all the kit.


----------



## Eee Pee

I know you are Stan, I was poking fun.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We disagreed a long time ago.  All is good.  Nothing is personal, just blah blah entertainment on the internet.


----------



## StanD

eee pee said:


> I know you are Stan, I was poking fun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 One thing we all should have in common, enjoying both music and Schiit. I try to keep myself behaved.


----------



## StanD

An excercise for your Vali. - Distortion.
 Pick a pair of headphones that are not overly sensitive as:

Noise is not part of this exercise.
We want to crank up the volume control
  
 Listen to some music that you are familiar with that is not overly compressed (volume), something with dynamics.
 Being mindful of your hearing:

Raise the volume till you begin to hear distortion on transients. It may not at first be apparent.
There's a good chance that's far louder than you would normally listen

Next, being careful raise the volume till you get more distortion, even clipping.
If that doesn't happen perhaps your cans aren't sensitive enough or your source is not turned up enough.

  
 I'll be that most people will have plenty enough volume without noticeable distortion unless they have one of those very demanding cans that are not at all sensitive. I can get distortion on my HE-500's (not sensitive, at all) but it does have to get to or near to headbanging levels.


----------



## RickB

I own a Magni 1, Vali, and Asgard 2. Here's my opinion: I believe that each amp sounds slightly different from the others. The Magni and Asgard 2 are similar, but the Asgard 2 is smoother and more refined. The Magni has more grain. The Vali has a slightly lush, smooth sound. It is as smooth as the Asgard 2, but the bass is not as tight (more flabby). Ultimately I prefer the Asgard based on sound quality, and also the fact it has pre-amp outs.
  
 No, I haven't done any ABX trials to confirm what I perceive. However, these impressions were apparent very quickly and they've persisted over time.


----------



## immtbiker

Removed some posts here to keep the thread more civil.
  
 Play nice, boys and girls!


----------



## jimmers

immtbiker said:


> Removed some posts here to keep the thread more civil.
> 
> Play nice, boys and girls!


 
 I think you could have removed much more


----------



## the Ortherion

k.t. said:


> Yes, the 580s can be great and sometimes more musical than the 600s. But you have to pair it with the right amp to get the most out of it (true for all phones generally).
> 
> Both can sound glorious, but how would I describe the differences? The 580s are warmer and maybe less resolving (even though they supposedly use the same drivers), but there's a suppleness and organic quality to the sound that is just hypnotic. But if you don't have just the right phone/amp combination, they can sound like a overly-warm, bloated mess.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Did you ever tried the Vali with the HD580? How do they pair together (black or silver screen?)
  
 Anyone tried the Vali vs the BottleHead Crack? Any thoughts?


----------



## the Ortherion

Hey guys, what should be a good upgrade to the Vali? The valhalla 1 or 2 sound more less the same with the Vali? I have a pair of Sennheiser HD560II and with these headphones i feel that sometimes the amp don't have enough power.


----------



## StanD

the ortherion said:


> Hey guys, what should be a good upgrade to the Vali? The valhalla 1 or 2 sound more less the same with the Vali? I have a pair of Sennheiser HD560II and with these headphones i feel that sometimes the amp don't have enough power.


 
 Do you know what the sensitivity and impedance specs are for the 560II's? Without this one canot determine the driving/power requirements.


----------



## the Ortherion

stand said:


> Do you know what the sensitivity and impedance specs are for the 560II's? Without this one canot determine the driving/power requirements.



It's the typical sennheiser 300ohm. But I guess that doesn't tell much. With the HD580 I get the vali from 9 to 12 o clock. And with the hd560 it's at least at 12oclock


----------



## StanD

the ortherion said:


> It's the typical sennheiser 300ohm. But I guess that doesn't tell much. With the HD580 I get the vali from 9 to 12 o clock. And with the hd560 it's at least at 12oclock


 
 That difference could be due to sensitivity. The Valhalla2 has an output of 800 mW at 300 Ohms, which is huge, that exceeds the HD800's maximum long term power rating of 500 mW. If you can dig up the specs on those cans I suspect you can gain some valuable insight as to what to get.
 Also, headphones of that era may not have had the same extended bass response as contemporary headphones. If that's the case perhaps try using some EQ.


----------



## Eee Pee

So if it's only at 12 o'clock, turn it up.


----------



## the Ortherion

eee pee said:


> So if it's only at 12 o'clock, turn it up.


 

 The problem is that after 12 o'clock the volume doesn't get much louder. it's not much linear.


----------



## StanD

the ortherion said:


> The problem is that after 12 o'clock the volume doesn't get much louder. it's not much linear.


 
 Volume controls have a logarithmic taper, generally there are two different tapers that are popular. This is to work with the way we hear things.


----------



## thedude22

Is it alright to leave your headphones plugged in when turning the Vali on and off?


----------



## the Ortherion

Yes. I guess that's on their manual


----------



## thedude22

Cool, before I was using HD 700's so I didn't want to take any chances. Now that I'm using K7xx's I'll just leave them plugged in


----------



## RickB

All of Schiit's amps that they currently sell have a relay mute, so it's safe to leave headphones plugged in all the time.


----------



## jbarrentine

Wrote to Schiit asking if it would be possible to get aluminum tops made up for the Vali, possibly as a prepaid run for headfi. Received a No response within 1 minute


----------



## RickB

jbarrentine said:


> Wrote to Schiit asking if it would be possible to get aluminum tops made up for the Vali, possibly as a prepaid run for headfi. Received a No response within 1 minute


 
  
 Nick is just channeling Steve Jobs.


----------



## fabiobueno

rickb said:


> All of Schiit's amps that they currently sell have a relay mute, so it's safe to leave headphones plugged in all the time.


 
 Valhalla 2 doesn't


----------



## RickB

fabiobueno said:


> Valhalla 2 doesn't


 
  
 Yeah, you're correct.


----------



## StanD

rickb said:


> All of Schiit's amps that they currently sell have a relay mute, so it's safe to leave headphones plugged in all the time.


 
  
  


fabiobueno said:


> Valhalla 2 doesn't


 
 The V2, by design, has a soft/slow start and shutdown so a relay is not required.


----------



## youchew

So uh, I had to replace my vali/modi stack and this vali seems different from my last one
First, the sounds that would happen the first 20-30 seconds or so are gone
if anything, it gives a slight pop and nothing more
it also doesn't ring if you tap it or move it, at all
I guess I shouldn't be complaining but it's so strange to me LOL


----------



## episiarch

My Vali purchased early in 2015 also has no turn-on noises or ringing that I've ever heard.  If ringing weren't discussed here and in their FAQ, I would have no idea the issue existed.


----------



## amigastar

Hey Guys, Got a Question, can anyone tell me how the bass is on the vali? i would prefer a slightly warm sound with good bass for my he-500.
  
 thx


----------



## StanD

amigastar said:


> Hey Guys, Got a Question, can anyone tell me how the bass is on the vali? i would prefer a slightly warm sound with good bass for my he-500.
> 
> thx


 
 I find the Vali to be borderline with powering my HE-500's. The Magni 2 Uber should do a better job.


----------



## amigastar

Ok, good to know. Since i want a Tube Amp the Magni 2 Uber isn't for me though.


----------



## StanD

amigastar said:


> Ok, good to know. Since i want a Tube Amp the Magni 2 Uber isn't for me.


 
 Then either you'll need a tube hybrid that can deliver enough juice or a pure tube amp with a good output transformer ($$$).


----------



## amigastar

Yep, i think a hybrid amp will do, probably a Project Ember or Lyr (don't know yet)
 I see from your comment that a pure Amp with enough current for more demanding hp is not cheap compared to hybrid amps.


----------



## StanD

amigastar said:


> Yep, i think a hybrid amp will do, probably a Project Ember or Lyr (don't know yet)
> I see from your comment that a pure Amp with enough current for more demanding hp is not cheap compared to hybrid amps.


 
 Yes, a pure tube amp.


----------



## RedBull

From my observations, pure tube amp generally don't produse solid kick bass.


----------



## purrin

My observation has been the opposite.


----------



## betula

I loved my Vali. And its tubish sound...
  But IFi iCan is a different league... Worth to try...
  Sound is much more dynamic, lively, full...
 However I miss the space and separation of Vali sometimes. But I would not change my iCan back to Vali in any circumstances....


----------



## heart banger-97

Hey guys, 
Is there anybody who use vali with t90 or t1? I know that vali is famousfor a budget match with hd800, does this hold true for t90 or t1?
Thanks


----------



## JamesBr

tmraven said:


> It's an exciting little Schiit!


 
  
 I was thinking about writing that, you were faster!


----------



## TRapz

Hi all,
 I've got the Grado SR80i, and I find it just a tad bright for my tastes. On my FiiO X1 I can tame it with EQ, but I need an amp for my turntable now and was looking at the FiiO E12 and the Schiit Vali. I'd like something a little warm to counteract the brightness of my Grados. If anyone has any experience with the Vali + Grado (and preferably also the E12), explanations of the sound and if either would fit my needs would be quite helpful.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

trapz said:


> Hi all,
> I've got the Grado SR80i, and I find it just a tad bright for my tastes. On my FiiO X1 I can tame it with EQ, but I need an amp for my turntable now and was looking at the FiiO E12 and the Schiit Vali. I'd like something a little warm to counteract the brightness of my Grados. If anyone has any experience with the Vali + Grado (and preferably also the E12), explanations of the sound and if either would fit my needs would be quite helpful.


 
 Grados are famous for being super easy to drive. I've been switching a pair of SR60es between the headphone out on my iMac and my Uber Bifrost/Vali for the past fifteen minutes and would be hard pressed to tell you the difference. Goldberg Variations, Call Me Maybe, Brahms 3...the difference is basically imperceptible. (Compare that with the HD 600 and Q701, which Vali gives considerable body.) Mayyyyybe Vali gives the Grados a smidgen more impact, but the difference hardly seems anywhere near the asking price (which, for the record, i consider an insanely good value). Honestly, if you want something less bright than the Grados you'd be happier spending the money on the HD600 or 650 (perhaps the Audeze EL-8, AKG K553?) and buying Vali after, or alongside, harder-to-drive headphones.
  
 EDIT: As I listen to the violin cadenza from the Brahms concerto I'm reminded of a further reason not to go for the Vali: the high noise floor will give you an undercurrent of hiss in the Grados whenever music isn't playing especially loudly. So even if they were necessary to drive them (they aren't), the amp is a poor match.


----------



## TRapz

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Grados are famous for being super easy to drive. I've been switching a pair of SR60es between the headphone out on my iMac and my Uber Bifrost/Vali for the past fifteen minutes and would be hard pressed to tell you the difference. Goldberg Variations, Call Me Maybe, Brahms 3...the difference is basically imperceptible. (Compare that with the HD 600 and Q701, which Vali gives considerable body.) Mayyyyybe Vali gives the Grados a smidgen more impact, but the difference hardly seems anywhere near the asking price (which, for the record, i consider an insanely good value). Honestly, if you want something less bright than the Grados you'd be happier spending the money on the HD600 or 650 (perhaps the Audeze EL-8, AKG K553?) and buying Vali after, or alongside, harder-to-drive headphones.
> 
> EDIT: As I listen to the violin cadenza from the Brahms concerto I'm reminded of a further reason not to go for the Vali: the high noise floor will give you an undercurrent of hiss in the Grados whenever music isn't playing especially loudly. So even if they were necessary to drive them (they aren't), the amp is a poor match.


 
 Thanks for your response; the reason I'm going for such a powerful amp is because next spring I'm considering buying an HE-400i (also looking into the 400s soon), and was hoping I could hit two birds with one stone- get an amp for my turntable and an amp for my harder-to-drive headphones when I buy them. I may just go with the E12, as the high and low gain will probably give me the best flexibility.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

trapz said:


> Thanks for your response; the reason I'm going for such a powerful amp is because next spring I'm considering buying an HE-400i (also looking into the 400s soon), and was hoping I could hit two birds with one stone- get an amp for my turntable and an amp for my harder-to-drive headphones when I buy them. I may just go with the E12, as the high and low gain will probably give me the best flexibility.


 

 It's funny that you post in the Vali thread, because pretty much any other Schiit amp has a gain switch that enables it to work on both sensitive and harder-to-drive headphones. Vali is an excellent middle ground, and an amazing budget tube amp, but would be inadvisable both for IEMs/grados and Orthos. (Its pairing with the HD800 is legendary—it is THE budget HD800 amp.) The Magni Uber and Asgard are both excellent options, as is Lyr, if that's in your budget.


----------



## Tunkejazz

trapz said:


> Thanks for your response; the reason I'm going for such a powerful amp is because next spring I'm considering buying an HE-400i (also looking into the 400s soon), and was hoping I could hit two birds with one stone- get an amp for my turntable and an amp for my harder-to-drive headphones when I buy them. I may just go with the E12, as the high and low gain will probably give me the best flexibility.




I would seriously look at the Project Polaris (Garage1217), given your needs. I have the Vali and it works fine with the 400i, but not with anything with less impedance (too much background noise).


----------



## notfitforpublic

heart banger-97 said:


> Hey guys,
> Is there anybody who use vali with t90 or t1? I know that vali is famousfor a budget match with hd800, does this hold true for t90 or t1?
> Thanks


 

 Haven't tried the T1's, but the Vali works fairly well for my DT880 600ohm. Volume knob sits around 1 o'clock on most recordings so it pushes the little Vali a bit but I really enjoy the results. I've had no issues with the 880 being too "bright" with the Vali either.


----------



## TRapz

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It's funny that you post in the Vali thread, because pretty much any other Schiit amp has a gain switch that enables it to work on both sensitive and harder-to-drive headphones. Vali is an excellent middle ground, and an amazing budget tube amp, but would be inadvisable both for IEMs/grados and Orthos. (Its pairing with the HD800 is legendary—it is THE budget HD800 amp.) The Magni Uber and Asgard are both excellent options, as is Lyr, if that's in your budget.


 
 I hear the Magni described as bright occasionally, which is the only reason I haven't considered it much; I loved it with the HE-400i. My Grados certainly don't need any more brightness, and I would prefer a little more bass if possible. I would also go with a neutral amp, but I'm not sure the Magni is completely neutral.
  


tunkejazz said:


> I would seriously look at the Project Polaris (Garage1217), given your needs. I have the Vali and it works fine with the 400i, but not with anything with less impedance (too much background noise).


 
 Unfortunately, the Polaris is out of my price range. I'd prefer to stay under $150, and hopefully closer to $100. 
  
 Thanks for your responses; I'll look into the Magni 2 Uber more and I'll keep the E12 on my mind for the moment.


----------



## heart banger-97

notfitforpublic said:


> Haven't tried the T1's, but the Vali works fairly well for my DT880 600ohm. Volume knob sits around 1 o'clock on most recordings so it pushes the little Vali a bit but I really enjoy the results. I've had no issues with the 880 being too "bright" with the Vali either.



Thanks,
My problem is that in some tracks, I feel that there is not enough punch in the bass. So, I thought that maybe there isn't enough voltage in those frequencies.


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> Thanks,
> My problem is that in some tracks, I feel that there is not enough punch in the bass. So, I thought that maybe there isn't enough voltage in those frequencies.


 
 Not enough voltage would result in clipping, a very noticeable distortion. One shouldn't make wild guesses as that can mislead others that do not have the technical background to understand.


----------



## gikigill

It's a lack of gain that usually affects bass.


----------



## StanD

gikigill said:


> It's a lack of gain that usually affects bass.


 
 That would affect the volume. Lower volume affects our perception of FR. You can read up on "Equal Loudness Contour" and "Fletcher Munson" to get more info.


----------



## gikigill

Gain and volume are not the same thing.
  
 The Bottlehead SEX suffers from the problem of poor bass at low gain irrespective of the attenuation.


----------



## StanD

gikigill said:


> Gain and volume are not the same thing.
> 
> The Bottlehead SEX suffers from the problem of poor bass at low gain irrespective of the attenuation.


 
 Low gain, lower volume due to cause and effect. It's a very simple relationship. Attenuation is the reduction of signal, not the same as gain. Did you read up on those two topics I mentioned?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> That would affect the volume. Lower volume affects our perception of FR. You can read up on "Equal Loudness Contour" and "Fletcher Munson" to get more info.


 
 Exactly-we are less sensitive to bass frequencies- so while we might hear the mids adequately, the bass and treble will seem weak at low volume. Old stereo receivers used to have a button called "loudness" to compensate-and some still do.


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> Exactly-we are less sensitive to bass frequencies- so while we might hear the mids adequately, the bass and treble will seem weak at low volume. Old stereo receivers used to have a button called "loudness" to compensate-and some still do.


 
 Those loudness buttons were not able to vary the frequency curve with changes to loudness so they were a best chance guess by the designers. Still, it beat a blank. Too many people on head-fi do not understand the importance of the loudness used for comparisons as well as the short term of human echoic memory.


----------



## senorx12562

amigastar said:


> Ok, good to know. Since i want a Tube Amp the Magni 2 Uber isn't for me though.


 
 I've solved the problem by selling my Valhalla2, which honestly sucked with my HE 500s and LCD2s, and getting a micro ican for my orthos, and I have a Vali on order for my dynamics (HD600 and 250ohm DT880). The orthos both sound great from the ican. Picked up both amps for about the same $ as the valhalla2 cost new.


----------



## ebiscaia

You can try feed your  ican with Vali signal if you want to put some tube flavor in your orthos.


----------



## betula

senorx12562 said:


> I've solved the problem by selling my Valhalla2, which honestly sucked with my HE 500s and LCD2s, and getting a micro ican for my orthos, and I have a Vali on order for my dynamics (HD600 and 250ohm DT880). The orthos both sound great from the ican. Picked up both amps for about the same $ as the valhalla2 cost new.


 

 In my opinion HD600 also sounds better with the iCan. Even though I loved my Vali. iCan is just a step up...


----------



## mechanix

I have recently bought an HD650 and I have been trying to use them with my Fiio E10k. I have heard E10k is able to drive them, but I am feeling like my cans could use a little bit more power. Then again I am not sure, I have never used a decent DAC or amp before and not sure what it can bring to the table. Do you guys think if it is worth giving Vali a go? 
  
 And if I buy Vali, can I use my E10k as a dac and skip the amp section? What kind of connection needs to be done?


----------



## StanD

mechanix said:


> I have recently bought an HD650 and I have been trying to use them with my Fiio E10k. I have heard E10k is able to drive them, but I am feeling like my cans could use a little bit more power. Then again I am not sure, I have never used a decent DAC or amp before and not sure what it can bring to the table. Do you guys think if it is worth giving Vali a go?
> 
> And if I buy Vali, can I use my E10k as a dac and skip the amp section? What kind of connection needs to be done?


 
 The E10K doesn't deliver much power at 300 Ohms, 22.7 mW that I calculated from the the Vp-p spec. The Vali delivers much more power, although I would recommend a Magni 2.


----------



## mechanix

Actually I want to see a taste of tube sound, even though I have my doubts how much of it Vali offers.


----------



## StanD

mechanix said:


> Actually I want to see a taste of tube sound, even though I have my doubts how much of it Vali offers.


 
 I have a Vali, Magni and Asgard 2. The Vali is an OK amp, however, of the 3 it's my least favorite.


----------



## senorx12562

betula said:


> In my opinion HD600 also sounds better with the iCan. Even though I loved my Vali. iCan is just a step up...




I'm about to find out. I figured at a buck twenty it was a pretty low risk proposition. Didn't want to be utterly tubeless, you know?


----------



## senorx12562

ebiscaia said:


> You can try feed your  ican with Vali signal if you want to put some tube flavor in your orthos.




I suppose i may try that, but i've never had good results from double amping a signal.


----------



## betula

senorx12562 said:


> I'm about to find out. I figured at a buck twenty it was a pretty low risk proposition. Didn't want to be utterly tubeless, you know?


 
 Yes, I felt the same way before I bought my iCan.
 But on the one hand Vali is not a real tube amp, it is a hybrid amp with micro tubes. With "tube like" sound.
 On the other hand iCan is just simply better. More body to the sound, thicker, more fun.
 The only advantage Vali has over the iCan is more space. But sound feels thin compared to the iCan.
 (Have to mention though, iCan costs double of the Vali, so it is not really fair to compare.)


----------



## senorx12562

betula said:


> Yes, I felt the same way before I bought my iCan.
> But on the one hand Vali is not a real tube amp, it is a hybrid amp with micro tubes. With "tube like" sound.
> On the other hand iCan is just simply better. More body to the sound, thicker, more fun.
> The only advantage Vali has over the iCan is more space. But sound feels thin compared to the iCan.
> (Have to mention though, iCan costs double of the Vali, so it is not really fair to compare.)


 
 Actually the ss output stage is one thing I want, as that might help with orthos, not counting on it though.


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> Not enough voltage would result in clipping, a very noticeable distortion. One shouldn't make wild guesses as that can mislead others that do not have the technical background to understand.



do you know maximum output voltage of Vali? Or have you used T1 with Vali?
Sometimes, I feel that my T1 lacks in bass. I want to know if it's normal or not.


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> do you know maximum output voltage of Vali? Or have you used T1 with Vali?
> Sometimes, I feel that my T1 lacks in bass. I want to know if it's normal or not.


 
 The Beyerdynamic T1 has an impedance of 600 Ohms and a sensitivity of 102 db/mW.
 The Vali can crank out 115 mw RMS at 600 Ohms. Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 5Hz-100KHz, -3dB
 Which means that the Vali can push the T1 to about 122.6 db SPL continuously.
 That should be enough to set one's ears on fire. The Vali's FR should not be an issue. Perhaps you prefer some bass boost or a set of cans that are bassier. Why not try some EQ?


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> The Beyerdynamic T1 has an impedance of 600 Ohms and a sensitivity of 102 db/mW.
> The Vali can crank out 115 mw RMS at 600 Ohms. Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 5Hz-100KHz, -3dB
> Which means that the Vali can push the T1 to about 122.6 db SPL continuously.
> That should be enough to set one's ears on fire. The Vali's FR should not be an issue. Perhaps you prefer some bass boost or a set of cans that are bassier. Why not try some EQ?


 
 Thanks,
 I'm familiar with basic calculation of loudness. But, from other side, I don't consider myself a basshead at all.
 I have used w4r for years and I always thought that it can have a little less bass.
 I've played with equalizer, it makes some frequencies sounds louder (it's a good thing at this situation) but EQ doesn't make a note to sound thicker or hit harder. I feel that base is not punchy enough or mid is a little thin. 
 That's why I asked here, I want to see the result of driving T1 with Vali from someone who is not only familiar with t1/vali, but also who has paired t1 with some other amps such as crack or similar tube or more powerful amps.
 (These were just my feeling and I hope I haven't mislead anybody)


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> Thanks,
> I'm familiar with basic calculation of loudness. But, from other side, I don't consider myself a basshead at all.
> I have used w4r for years and I always thought that it can have a little less bass.
> I've played with equalizer, it makes some frequencies sounds louder (it's a good thing at this situation) but EQ doesn't make a note to sound thicker or hit harder. I feel that base is not punchy enough or mid is a little thin.
> ...


 
 So what do you mean by thicker? I don't want to guess your meaning.
 Frankly if you want hitting power you are probably thinking about transient response, IMO that's more up to the headphones (like a Planar) than any amp. In my pile of headphones is an HE-500 and boy can that snap at you and the bass extension is out of sight. What property of an amp do you think will make it hit harder?


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> So what do you mean by thicker? I don't want to guess your meaning.
> Frankly if you want hitting power you are probably thinking about transient response, IMO that's more up to the headphones (like a Planar) than any amp. In my pile of headphones is an HE-500 and boy can that snap at you and the bass extension is out of sight.


 
 (English isn't my first language, Sorry for any inconvenience)


> What property of an amp do you think will make it hit harder?


 
 I don't know exactly. The only things that came to my mind were Voltage and slew rate at 1200 ohms (which is the impedance of T1 in base freqs).
  
 This is my current EQ setting. When I compare freq responses of T1 and w4r, it seems odd to me that I have to boost base 6db.


----------



## StanD

heart banger-97 said:


> (English isn't my first language, Sorry for any inconvenience)
> I don't know exactly. The only things that came to my mind were Voltage and slew rate at 1200 ohms (which is the impedance of T1 in base freqs).
> 
> This is my current EQ setting. When I compare freq responses of T1 and w4r, it seems odd to me that I have to boost base 6db.
> ...


 
 Slew rate affects high frequency response, not bass.  Voltage affects loudness. So I don't think these are it.
 IMO that EQ dip at 500 Hz might not be helpful. I would try everything flat above 100 Hz and start that bass boost at or just below 100Hz.Perhaps giving a little more boostwhere you start rolling off at 50 Hz. Give it a try.


----------



## mechanix

Just got Vali yesterday and I noticed it operates too hot. I expected it would be kind of warm when up and running but this is really hot. Is it normal? Is it because it's a tube amp?
  
 On the other hand, no matter how hard I try there are no microphonics, no ringing, nothing. Wonder if I have a defective pair


----------



## abhinit90

mechanix said:


> Just got Vali yesterday and I noticed it operates too hot. I expected it would be kind of warm when up and running but this is really hot. Is it normal? Is it because it's a tube amp?
> 
> On the other hand, no matter how hard I try there are no microphonics, no ringing, nothing. Wonder if I have a defective pair


 
 Microphonics depend a lot on the HP being used. Vali runs pretty hot for me too, nothing that will burn my skin, but hot nonetheless.
  
 Usually there are very less microphonics, for me, until the tubes decide to leave their foams.


----------



## Astral Abyss

mechanix said:


> Just got Vali yesterday and I noticed it operates too hot. I expected it would be kind of warm when up and running but this is really hot. Is it normal? Is it because it's a tube amp?
> 
> On the other hand, no matter how hard I try there are no microphonics, no ringing, nothing. Wonder if I have a defective pair


 
 What do you consider too hot?  Mine gets hot, but I wouldn't consider it something to worry about.


----------



## heart banger-97

stand said:


> Slew rate affects high frequency response, not bass.  Voltage affects loudness. So I don't think these are it.
> IMO that EQ dip at 500 Hz might not be helpful. I would try everything flat above 100 Hz and start that bass boost at or just below 100Hz.Perhaps giving a little more boostwhere you start rolling off at 50 Hz. Give it a try.




Thank yoy Stan.
I think it's better to try an otl amp for myself. 

That dip is peculiar to me too 
But honestly, it makes mids more clear to me. It removes a skin curtain from the space of between me and instruments. 
I've came from w4r. And have used it with love for more than 3yrs. I need that peak at 3khz too


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## mechanix

abhinit90 said:


> Usually there are very less microphonics, for me, until the tubes decide to leave their foams.


 
 Could you elaborate this a bit further? I am new to the tubes.
  
  


astral abyss said:


> What do you consider too hot?  Mine gets hot, but I wouldn't consider it something to worry about.


 
 Well, it's been up and running for 2-3 hours now and while it's not untouchably hot, it's still pretty hot. However probably nothing to worry about.


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## rgmffn

I've had my Vali now about 5-6 wks.  I'm lovin' it!  It's either Puter >> Foobar >> Modi >> Vali >> HD598 or Q701 or X2s... OR, Emotiva ERC-3 (CD player) >> Vali >> X2s.  I prefer listening to the CD player.  I believe it sounds best.  Actually, I'm finding it hard to stop listening!  The Fidelio X2s just sounds so good on this pairing.  I've got my eye's closed, head back, zoning out.  The sound is so big with this combo.  It must be the emphasis in the upper bass region.  I open my eyes and look over at what the HPs are plugged into expecting to see something about the size of a small car battery.. but no, it's a little Schiitin Vali!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I did a couple of small mods to the Vali.  If/when I ever get enough posts to be able to upload, I'll post some pics. 
  
 Thanks all!  I love reading about your experiences.


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## Arnotts

barry s said:


> WTH? What...The...Hell.
> 
> My Vali arrived today and it was intended for my work setup, Modi/Magni/HD650. Since I didn't even plan on ordering the Vali, all that stuff is at work. With ZERO expectations, I put the Vali in my home setup swapping out my Mjolnir for a Gungnir/Vali/LCD-X chain. I hated the Magni with both the LCD-2s and LCD-Xs, which made both cans sound sloppy and congested. Although I loved the Lyr with just about everything--it sounded too thick with both the LCD-2/LCD-X, and smeared detail. So, I expected the Vali to be a poor pairing with the LCD-X.
> 
> I'm A/B-ing the LCD-X with the Vali and the Mjolnir--both being fed by the Gungnir. The Vali is *rocking* the LCD-X, that's the only way to put it. The Vali has a beautiful analog signature with punchy deep bass and rich mids, but maintains very crisp treble. The Vali doesn't have quite the detail, instrument separation, and air of the Mjolnir, but damn if it doesn't sound beautifully musical. The soundstage is also a bit more closed in, but honestly--it sounds very very good. I could listen to the LCD-Xs out of the Vali all day--the synergy is great. More thoughts to come, but the Vali is way better than it should be for the price and is actually a reasonable option for the LCD-X. Very much in shock on this!


 

 This post is two years old... but wow does it still hold true.
  
 I just plugged my LCD-X's into my Vali...
  
 Incredible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Just as Barry said, it's very musical and enjoyable. Not the most technically excellent pairing for separation and soundstage, but it's not bad by ANY means in these areas.
  
 For the price this thing is ridiculous. Equal or better in a lot of aspects to my Gustard H10 (which in itself is excellent value).


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## BunnyNamedCraig

Side note about the Vali- was having annoying issues with the "hiss" that would get louder and louder. I was to the point of sending it back, but just realized its my router that needed moved. I moved it about 3 feet and found significant improvement on the annoying background hiss. So anyone out there wracking their brain over this issue try moving other electronics out of range. Also I was using the AKG K712 as headphones with the Vali in case anyone thought that my headphones may have been as issue as well.


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## Yoplaboum

Hi !
 Using my Vali now for 3 months.
 It's used with a Beyer 990 Pro 250 Ohms. No problem at all about hiss or background noise. The volume is set, most part of the time, on 10 or 11 o'clock.
 I love this little amplifier !! It's full of life, it's all fun ! I think, too, that it suits well the V-profile of my headphone. I can listen this set for hours, I re-discover my CDs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Great results on voices and acoustic instruments (small jazz groups are fantastic !)
 The only thing (not really disturbing) : The "diiiing" when you move your Vali, or when you power it. It's really a small thing.
 I recommand this little amp with this headphone. Without restriction !!


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## masterfuu

I had the little sciiter for two weeks before sending it back for repair. For some reason the ringing would appear and get louder and louder. I got the asgard which also was great. But about vali I used with grado rs1 and it was magic. Vali is without doubt unbelievably great sounding amp it made music and movies alive and amazing. Closest quality in sound I found after vali is my woo audio wa7. But at x10 price it's only slightly better. If I ever get rid of wa7 I may go back to vali and get lost in world of music again.


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## Evshrug

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Side note about the Vali- was having annoying issues with the "hiss" that would get louder and louder. I was to the point of sending it back, but just realized its my router that needed moved. I moved it about 3 feet and found significant improvement on the annoying background hiss. So anyone out there wracking their brain over this issue try moving other electronics out of range. Also I was using the AKG K712 as headphones with the Vali in case anyone thought that my headphones may have been as issue as well.



Yeah, I was trying out a Raspberry Pi as a digital player and transport, the music files fed to it over wifi, and the wifi transmitter created annoyance. However, I moved my amp to the other side of the desk (still using my janky cheap RadioShack RCA cable), and all was well again.
Till I got a phone call, but then I put that on the wifi side too, lol! Maybe some day I'll make a lead chamber for my tube amp.


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## BunnyNamedCraig

evshrug said:


> Yeah, I was trying out a Raspberry Pi as a digital player and transport, the music files fed to it over wifi, and the wifi transmitter created annoyance. However, I moved my amp to the other side of the desk (still using my janky cheap RadioShack RCA cable), and all was well again.
> Till I got a phone call, but then I put that on the wifi side too, lol! Maybe some day I'll make a lead chamber for my tube amp.



It's amazing how moving something a few feet makes such a change.... I was about to send the Vali back to get fixed. I was running out of ideas


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## Pantsbandit

rgmffn said:


> I've had my Vali now about 5-6 wks.  I'm lovin' it!  It's either Puter >> Foobar >> Modi >> Vali >> HD598 or Q701 or X2s... OR, Emotiva ERC-3 (CD player) >> Vali >> X2s.  I prefer listening to the CD player.  I believe it sounds best.  Actually, I'm finding it hard to stop listening!  The Fidelio X2s just sounds so good on this pairing.  I've got my eye's closed, head back, zoning out.  The sound is so big with this combo.  It must be the emphasis in the upper bass region.  I open my eyes and look over at what the HPs are plugged into expecting to see something about the size of a small car battery.. but no, it's a little Schiitin Vali!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How difficult did you find the Vali to mod?  My soldering skills aren't great and my concern would be whether the mod benefits out weight the risk of wrecking the amp.


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## bosiemoncrieff

I've been using Vali with my HD800s for a little while, and while I love the pairing, I'm curious how it compares with the rest of the Schiit lineup. Is Magni Uber/Asgard an appreciable step up? Are Valhalla and Lyr worth their asking price?


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## rgmffn

pantsbandit said:


> How difficult did you find the Vali to mod?  My soldering skills aren't great and my concern would be whether the mod benefits out weight the risk of wrecking the amp.


 

 No soldering.  I didn't roll the tubes or anything.  Just a couple of simple mods.  I like to tinker.  They just make my user experience a bit more pleasureful.
  
 I added some o-rings to the volume knob.  And a little bit of white paint to easier see the setting. It makes for a better feel when adjusting. 
  
 I added a little rubber tip I found in my junk to the power switch.  It feels better to me when switching on and off.  Adds a little cushion to it.
  

  

  

  
 Oh, and that's a small piece of blue masking tape on the front with some scotch tape to help hold so as to have the light match my other blue equipment lighting (Emotiva) when it is in the rack with it.  You can't see the tape, only the blue light from my seating position.


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## Ali-Pacha

Vali + HD800 @ home, 2 weeks lend from another h-fier. Not convinced by the HD800 (too brutally energetic for me, and a bit thin in bass area), but hell I like the Vali with my HD600.
  
 Ali


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## Arnotts

ali-pacha said:


> Vali + HD800 @ home, 2 weeks lend from another h-fier. Not convinced by the HD800 (too brutally energetic for me, and a bit thin in bass area), but hell I like the Vali with my HD600.
> 
> Ali


 

 I felt the same way about the HD800's until I drove them balanced from the M-DAC.
  
 The Vali did not unleash enough of the potential in the HD800's to make them truly enjoyable for me. They still left the HD800 sounding a little thin/cold/analytical/digital. It still performed better than many of my other amps (M-Stage, H10 and single-ended headphone amp from the M-DAC). The Vali did very well with the HD800's, and for the price it's excellent, but if you're using HD800's then I think you should pair them with a DAC and amp that are more suitable.


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## BunnyNamedCraig

i recant my statement about the hiss going away whenever i moved my router lol. the hiss starts out faint and then grows loud enough for me to hear it through most music.i don't get how it can be practically silent some times, but 8/10 it is realllllly annoying..... any suggestions would help.  either here for everyone or PM. THANKS!


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## Evshrug

lead box. Lead Box. LEEEEAD BOX!!!
Could also be an issue with the power supply.


----------



## Wallboy

bunnynamedfrank said:


> i recant my statement about the hiss going away whenever i moved my router lol. the hiss starts out faint and then grows loud enough for me to hear it through most music.i don't get how it can be practically silent some times, but 8/10 it is realllllly annoying..... any suggestions would help.  either here for everyone or PM. THANKS!


 
  
 Does it go away when you cycle the amp off and on? I have the problem where the right channel straights to get a really high pitched frequency after about 30 minutes. If I cycle the amp off and on it's good to go for the rest of the day. I have an early model of the Vali so I'm pretty sure the issue is with the tubes coming off their little pads. I can push them back down onto their pads, but they always lift back up after a day or two. I know some people were bending the leads so that they were forced to stay on their pads. I was going to do this but am afraid I was going to break them off. 
  
 So I've been having to just cycle the amp on and off after the first 30 minutes of it being on. It's getting a little annoying to do this everyday, but I'm not sure what else to do.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

wallboy said:


> Does it go away when you cycle the amp off and on? I have the problem where the right channel straights to get a really high pitched frequency after about 30 minutes. If I cycle the amp off and on it's good to go for the rest of the day. I have an early model of the Vali so I'm pretty sure the issue is with the tubes coming off their little pads. I can push them back down onto their pads, but they always lift back up after a day or two. I know some people were bending the leads so that they were forced to stay on their pads. I was going to do this but am afraid I was going to break them off.
> 
> So I've been having to just cycle the amp on and off after the first 30 minutes of it being on. It's getting a little annoying to do this everyday, but I'm not sure what else to do.


 
 it will go away for about 20 seconds, then slowly but surely it will get back up to an annoying level.... i am about to try and push them back down on to the pads if that is the reason for this. i have heard of people putting blu tac on top of the tubes to give it more weight (i do not endorse doing that personally btw, only because i cant speak for it working/not burning the blu tac....). Long story short had a friend listen to it with akg 612's and there was no audible sound. then you plug in my 712's and there was a slight hiss in the left ear, then a  hiss in either the right or both. correct me if i i wrong Evshrug?


----------



## Evshrug

I remember when I first heard BNF's Vali, sounded remarkably good for $120, only slightly behind my more expensive one and it had some microphonics issues that took slightly longer to ease away. When I heard it again Friday, I was a little annoyed that something costing $120 could develop defects within a year.

BNF's AKG K712 may be "just" 62 ohms, but on my amps it took about the same volume setting as the 150 Ohm HD700 because the AKG's sensitivity is lower. The K612 is pretty much the most dampened headphone I have, fortunately that dampening was enough to crush what I would describe as a ringing sound (not a TV static "hiss") that could be easily heard on the K712. It was pretty loud on the K712 too! I didn't suggest we listen with a more typical headphone with even less dampening than the K712. The first time we tried it, the ringing developed after a few seconds in the left ear (and I handed the headphone to BNF, we could both hear it), we switched the Vali off and back on with only like 2 seconds inbetween, the amp behaved but after another 20 seconds or so the RIGHT channel began ringing.

This is not a knock against the K712, which sounded great on my amps, but I definitely recommended sending in that Vali for repair (or attempting DIY). That kind of ringing hurt my ears.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

evshrug said:


> I remember when I first heard BNF's Vali, sounded remarkably good for $120, only slightly behind my more expensive one and it had some microphonics issues that took slightly longer to ease away. When I heard it again Friday, I was a little annoyed that something costing $120 could develop defects within a year.
> 
> BNF's AKG K712 may be "just" 62 ohms, but on my amps it took about the same volume setting as the 150 Ohm HD700 because the AKG's sensitivity is lower. The K612 is pretty much the most dampened headphone I have, fortunately that dampening was enough to crush what I would describe as a ringing sound (not a TV static "hiss") that could be easily heard on the K712. It was pretty loud on the K712 too! I didn't suggest we listen with a more typical headphone with even less dampening than the K712. The first time we tried it, the ringing developed after a few seconds in the left ear (and I handed the headphone to BNF, we could both hear it), we switched the Vali off and back on with only like 2 seconds inbetween, the amp behaved but after another 20 seconds or so the RIGHT channel began ringing.
> 
> This is not a knock against the K712, which sounded great on my amps, but I definitely recommended sending in that Vali for repair (or attempting DIY). That kind of ringing hurt my ears.




Thanks dude. I didnt feel like I could articulate well enough what happened


----------



## StanD

evshrug said:


> I remember when I first heard BNF's Vali, sounded remarkably good for $120, only slightly behind my more expensive one and it had some microphonics issues that took slightly longer to ease away. When I heard it again Friday, I was a little annoyed that something costing $120 could develop defects within a year.
> 
> BNF's AKG K712 may be "just" 62 ohms, but on my amps it took about the same volume setting as the 150 Ohm HD700 because the AKG's sensitivity is lower. The K612 is pretty much the most dampened headphone I have, fortunately that dampening was enough to crush what I would describe as a ringing sound (not a TV static "hiss") that could be easily heard on the K712. It was pretty loud on the K712 too! I didn't suggest we listen with a more typical headphone with even less dampening than the K712. The first time we tried it, the ringing developed after a few seconds in the left ear (and I handed the headphone to BNF, we could both hear it), we switched the Vali off and back on with only like 2 seconds inbetween, the amp behaved but after another 20 seconds or so the RIGHT channel began ringing.
> 
> This is not a knock against the K712, which sounded great on my amps, but I definitely recommended sending in that Vali for repair (or attempting DIY). That kind of ringing hurt my ears.


 
 Actually amplifiers amplify voltage and when they can handle the load they supply enough current to drive the impedance. If they cannot supply enough current, they distort, usually by clipping. That said, at the same position of the volume knob the lower impedance headphone draws more current (hence more power) but at the same output voltage since the voltage gain is the same and the impedance is lower. They are both spec'd to the same sensitivity thus the same volume, not because as you say the AKG's sensitivity is lower. The AKG's lower impedance means it draws more power at the same volume as the HD700. Power = Voltage2/Impedance
AKG K712 Sensitivity:105 dB SPL/V
HD700 Sensitivity: 105 dB SPL/V

  
 Also I don't see how the damping of the headphone would affect the ringing of the tubes? If that's what you meant.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> Actually amplifiers amplify voltage and when they can handle the load they supply enough current to drive the impedance. If they cannot supply enough current, they distort, usually by clipping. That said, at the same position of the volume knob the lower impedance headphone draws more current (hence more power) but at the same output voltage since the voltage gain is the same and the impedance is lower. They are both spec'd to the same sensitivity thus the same volume, not because as you say the AKG's sensitivity is lower. The AKG's lower impedance means it draws more power at the same volume as the HD700. Power = Voltage2/Impedance
> AKG K712 Sensitivity:105 dB SPL/V
> HD700 Sensitivity: 105 dB SPL/V
> 
> ...


 
 Nice explanation.


----------



## Tautologi

stand said:


> Actually amplifiers amplify voltage and when they can handle the load they supply enough current to drive the impedance. If they cannot supply enough current, they distort, usually by clipping. That said, at the same position of the volume knob the lower impedance headphone draws more current (hence more power) but at the same output voltage since the voltage gain is the same and the impedance is lower. They are both spec'd to the same sensitivity thus the same volume, not because as you say the AKG's sensitivity is lower. The AKG's lower impedance means it draws more power at the same volume as the HD700. Power = Voltage2/Impedance
> AKG K712 Sensitivity:105 dB SPL/V
> HD700 Sensitivity: 105 dB SPL/V
> 
> ...


 
 As an addition to the sensitivity bit.
  
 Efficiency gives you the sound level as a function of total power (P=U*I or P=U^2*Z as quoted says) in the form of dB SPL/W.
 I've noticed that some headphone makers mistake efficiency for sensitivity and erraniously write efficiency.


----------



## StanD

tautologi said:


> As an addition to the sensitivity bit.
> 
> Efficiency gives you the sound level as a function of total power (P=U*I or P=U^2*Z as quoted says) in the form of dB SPL/W.
> I've noticed that some headphone makers mistake efficiency for sensitivity and erraniously write efficiency.


 
 If you think about it Sensitivy is voltage related and efficiency is power related, however, all three are cross computable due to the impedance. So one can derive the dB SPL/W from the dBSPL/V and visa versa. Look at the math.


----------



## OmarCCX

Just bought a pair of DT880s. I need to pump the volume pot to 5 o'clock to get the most dynamics out of these. At 3 o'clock they sound nice, but not up to their full potential. And max volume just isn't usable, the voices tend to get distorted when I bump it that loud. 
 Volume depends on the source, but that's where I'm averging out. 3-5 o'clock.
 Going to try them with a friend's Magni just to see how they sound.
  
 I love the sound out of the Vali though. Bass seems very tight with the right songs and the details are unbelievable when you delve into a song. Oh and there's no humming noise whatsoever with these.


----------



## Defiant00

omarccx said:


> Just bought a pair of DT880s. I need to pump the volume pot to 5 o'clock to get the most dynamics out of these. At 3 o'clock they sound nice, but not up to their full potential. And max volume just isn't usable, the voices tend to get distorted when I bump it that loud.
> Volume depends on the source, but that's where I'm averging out. 3-5 o'clock.
> Going to try them with a friend's Magni just to see how they sound.
> 
> I love the sound out of the Vali though. Bass seems very tight with the right songs and the details are unbelievable when you delve into a song. Oh and there's no humming noise whatsoever with these.




What source are you using?


----------



## OmarCCX

defiant00 said:


> What source are you using?


 
 Schiit Modi.


----------



## RickB

omarccx said:


> Schiit Modi.


 
  
 Make sure the volume in your music player is at 100%.


----------



## Defiant00

omarccx said:


> Schiit Modi.


 
  


rickb said:


> Make sure the volume in your music player is at 100%.


 
  
 Yup, outside of that I'd expect it to be much louder than you describe.


----------



## mysticstryk

Currently using a Modi2U/Magni2U stack and loving it.  I plan on buying an HD650 as soon as they go on sale again, and they apparently sound really good with tube amps.
  
 How does the Vali compare with the Magni2U and with the HD650.  Or would I be better off looking at different tube amps, maybe saving up for awhile longer and get something really nice, like a BH Crack or something.


----------



## heart banger-97

Hey guys,
 I'm on the edge of buying nfb-28. Currently, I'm using my T1 with schiit modi/vali. Is there anybody who listened to both vali and nfb28 side by side? I don't want that my new amp sound thinner than vali.


----------



## BobFiggins

heart banger-97 said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm on the edge of buying nfb-28. Currently, I'm using my T1 with schiit modi/vali. Is there anybody who listened to both vali and nfb28 side by side? I don't want that my new amp sound thinner than vali.


 
  
 I have Vali/Modi 2 Uber, and I listened to the NFB-28 recently at the Seattle Head-Fi meet. While I can't give you in-depth side by side critical listening details (meet conditions were very loud), I can definitely say Vali has a thick sound and the 28 will probably leave you unimpressed if you want to avoid that. It was very resolving, and didn't strike me as sounding interesting enough to consider purchasing. I don't remember it being harsh though, smooth would be a good way to describe it. Though thick and tube-like, no. The more I listen to other amps, the more I am impressed with Vali.
  
 That's the tough part of liking Audio-GD stuff. Finding one and listening to one in-person is rather difficult.


----------



## Billheiser

mysticstryk said:


> Currently using a Modi2U/Magni2U stack and loving it.  I plan on buying an HD650 as soon as they go on sale again, and they apparently sound really good with tube amps.
> 
> How does the Vali compare with the Magni2U and with the HD650.  Or would I be better off looking at different tube amps, maybe saving up for awhile longer and get something really nice, like a BH Crack or something.



With close but not identical equipment: 
I used an HD600 with the original Magni, then switched to the Vali. Much much prefer the Vali. Magni worked perfectly and all, but I am happier with the Vali sound experience overall. Seemed to me to have more sense of depth and naturalness.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Stuck a Vali on top of my audio interface for my K712's. 
  
 In hog heaven over here. Just incredible sound.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

So for what its worth...... i feel like this process has practically eliminated the annoying hiss sound for me (and hopefully others who experience it)... i Turn the Vali on. Let it sit for about 4-8 min. THEN plug in my K712's. slight ring happens. then just silence....... I have done this process of turning it on twice now and have stellar results. i have heard others say that its better to leave their headphones in and then turn it on, but not for mine! i also have the modi to Vali all plugged in and into the computer before i turn the Vali on as well. doubt that would make a difference though. hopefully this helps someone experiencing issues with the device. i was at my wits end with it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I gotta be honest I don't even hear the hiss now, and I only wait a few seconds. Maybe there's something coming from folks' DACs?


----------



## BobFiggins

My Vali has never made a hiss sound ever that I can hear. I've even put my headphones on before turning Vali on.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

bobfiggins said:


> My Vali has never made a hiss sound ever that I can hear. I've even put my headphones on before turning Vali on.


 
  
 Same, in the few days I've had it. I don't even unplug my headphones. Flip the switch and a few seconds later boom. Good to go. No hiss I've been able to determine.
  
 All I know is my music became just... lovely again. It took me a few minutes with the K712's to remind myself that I wasn't hearing the audio get "muddy" because the sharp details were gone. It just made the treble spikes less sharp.


----------



## StanD

You will only hear the noise (hiss) if your headphones or IEMs are sensitive. My HD600's and HE-500's are not sensitive so I hear none, however, I have IEMs that are sensitive enough to hear the noise.


----------



## mechanix

I am starting to think that Vali is not a good match for HD650s. It might just be my untrained ears but I am now sure that I do not like what I am hearing. Bass sounds too uncontrolled / boomy and a bit too much in quantity to me. Then again, I am not fond of bass as much as most of the people here, but as a bass player in my earlier youth I do appreciate it when the quantity is right. But seems like for now I will be using my E10k, which might sound ridiculous but true


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

someguydude said:


> Same, in the few days I've had it. I don't even unplug my headphones. Flip the switch and a few seconds later boom. Good to go. No hiss I've been able to determine.
> 
> All I know is my music became just... lovely again. It took me a few minutes with the K712's to remind myself that I wasn't hearing the audio get "muddy" because the sharp details were gone. It just made the treble spikes less sharp.


 
 Well i am jealous..... because i dont know why its so hit or miss with my K712's...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Well i am jealous..... because i dont know why its so hit or miss with my K712's...


 
  
 Lotta factors, man. What's going into the Vali? Where's the music coming from? When you say hit or miss, what sounds bad when it's a miss?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

someguydude said:


> Lotta factors, man. What's going into the Vali? Where's the music coming from? When you say hit or miss, what sounds bad when it's a miss?


 
 ill send you a PM of all that. tired of wasting space with on this thread about my Vali being an issue


----------



## sling5s

I don't believe the topic ever came up but I've noticed many use DC battery power supply to improve their phono preamps like ART djpre ii. I was wondering if plugging the Vali to an DC battery supply will improve the sound. 
  
 I guess bad idea...


----------



## jimmers

sling5s said:


> I don't believe the topic ever came up but I've noticed many use DC battery power supply to improve their phono preamps like ART djpre ii. I was wondering if plugging the Vali to an DC battery supply will improve the sound.
> 
> I guess bad idea...


 

 It needs AC to get split supply and generate 60+ volts for tubes


----------



## OmarCCX

Friend of mine ruined his Magni by using another power cord. I wouldn't try it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've seen TONS of electronics get wrecked by using the wrong power supply. I blew out (no joke) a microphone, keyboard, mouse, AND webcam after plugging the wrong power cord into a USB hub.


----------



## shoegazer72

I purchased one of these 4 months ago to use with my AKG K240 Studio + ODAC.  Some general thoughts...
  
_- Very definitely _microphonic.  After plugging in the head phones I hear a "ting" sound that gradually dies out over 15-20 seconds.  Same is true if the amp is moved while on.  This behavior does not constitute a problem for me.
  
 - Some have complained about an obtrusively-high noise floor (i.e. background hiss during silent portions of a recording).  I, personally, have not experienced that even when listening to classical pieces.
  
 - With the 55 ohm impedance but low-efficiency K240s, I find that the upper end of my volume threshold is reached at around 11 o'clock - 12 o'clock (or perhaps just a bit beyond) on the volume dial on most recordings.
  
 - I feel that the K240 amped with the Vali + ODAC is very definitely an improvement vs. the K240 with the humble on-board soundcard of my laptop.  The overall sound is a bit lusher, the bass tightens up a bit and extends a bit better...but there's no extra liveliness in dynamics that I would expect from a valve amp.
  
 My general feeling is that this is a satisfactory amp for $119 - but, in retrospect, I suspect that I'd have been a bit happier shelling out an additional $80 for a Little Dot Mk II.


----------



## The Lamonster

Any chance we'll see a Vali 2 anytime soon?  
  
 It kinda bugs me that there's no gain switch and Vali doesn't have that nice brushed aluminum that the M2Us have.


----------



## notfitforpublic

I think someone else asked that exact same question not too long ago. I believe the answer was: "You'll be waiting a long long long long time"


----------



## ScottFree

It would be quicker and easier to stick a 2 on the front of the amp. Same method did wonders for my brothers car. He turned a Ford Focus into a Ford Focus RS


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## The Lamonster

notfitforpublic said:


> I think someone else asked that exact same question not too long ago. I believe the answer was: "You'll be waiting a long long long long time"


 
 Who did that answer come from?


----------



## RickB

the lamonster said:


> Who did that answer come from?


 
  
 Jason Stoddard.


----------



## leeperry

I don't get it, why didn't they add dampers around the tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=4990.0
  





 
  
 anyone tried here?


----------



## StanD

leeperry said:


> I don't get it, why didn't they add dampers around the tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The tubes in a Vali are far smaller than these.


----------



## leeperry

I'm sure they are but finding damping rings of the right diameter should be totally doable?
  
 Apparently some had partial success with DIY kludges: http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/3720#post_10444409
  
 But not completely: http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/465#post_9904830
  
 Still, a link to buy rings of the right diameter would be really great.......I guess Schiit decided to save a buck as the issue can't be fully resolved apparently.


----------



## StanD

leeperry said:


> I'm sure they are but finding damping rings of the right diameter should be totally doable?
> 
> Apparently some had partial success with DIY kludges: http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/3720#post_10444409
> 
> ...


 
 Some people have reported that their newer Valis have little ringing so I would be interested in finding out how Schiit has tamed this beyond bending leads and sticking tubes to the PCB.


----------



## jimmers

leeperry said:


> I don't get it, why didn't they add dampers around the tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oatley Electronics use Raytheon JAN6418 sub-miniature tubes in their headphone/preamp kits and use grommets to damp the tubes. For a more comprehensive anti-ring you could re-engineer to be like these tubes in the Audio-Technica AT3060 - Cardioid Tube Condenser Microphone


----------



## JamesBr

notfitforpublic said:


> I think someone else asked that exact same question not too long ago. I believe the answer was: "You'll be waiting a long long long long time"


 
 Loll I think thats the answer hehe


----------



## Oklahoma

stand said:


> Some people have reported that their newer Valis have little ringing so I would be interested in finding out how Schiit has tamed this beyond bending leads and sticking tubes to the PCB.




I believe Schiit now has a layer of sorbathane under the tubes that they lay on and this supposedly helped quite a bit with the ringing
I believe Jason said the ringing is a common issue with the small tubes.


----------



## Billheiser

I would think that damping materials on or around the tube could help a bit, but would be limited in effectiveness since the microphonics/ringing is due to the internal parts (cathode, grid, etc) vibrating.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> I would think that damping materials on or around the tube could help a bit, but would be limited in effectiveness since the microphonics/ringing is due to the internal parts (cathode, grid, etc) vibrating.


 
 +1


----------



## SomeGuyDude

All I know is that unless I slap the amp itself there's no ringing, and even then it's only for a second or two. That's with my K712's so take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I have to say that after i got my Vali serviced by Schiit, i no longer have any issues that i had before with it. The ringing only happens if i bump the unit. something completely  acceptable. Major props to the Schiit for helping fix my Vali. (also paired with K712, and Modi).


----------



## reihead

Reading the thread a little bit and by the equiment of a lot of poster, it seems a few used a Vali reporting a good experience but at some point moved up to a Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2
 Asking the obvious, these should be superior to the Vali, but how much, especially with the Senn HD600?


----------



## Billheiser

reihead said:


> Reading the thread a little bit and by the equiment of a lot of poster, it seems a few used a Vali reporting a good experience but at some point moved up to a Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2
> Asking the obvious, these should be superior to the Vali, but how much, especially with the Senn HD600?


 

 I have both the Vali and the Valhalla 2, and use the HD600 on them.  However, I have never done direct, head-to-head comparisons with the amps - I have them in different rooms, and may never get around to doing a shoot-out between them.  I really love them both.  The Valhalla also has the hi/lo gain switch, and preamp outputs, so it has those practical benefits.


----------



## Bri-Fi

After a few days with the Vali I'm very pleased with it. Very detailed, great sound. It gets along incredibly well with some headphones and not so much with others. I thought I would post my quick thoughts of all the headphones I have tried with Vali. Out of all the headphones I currently own the 400i takes the cake with this combo. My AKG K7XX are on the way from Massdrop and I have a feeling those are going to do very well also.
  
 JRMC>>Bifrost/Modi>>Vali
  
 Hifiman HE-400i - Great combo. Black silent backround, no hiss at all. Great bass, mids, and smooth highs.
  
 Sennheiser HD 650 - Ok sound. Black silent backround just like the 400i but the sound lacks something. It is still driven to ear bleeding levels but the sound has that veil to it. I think its because the HD 650 max input power is 500mW and the Vali is only delivering 220mW at 300 ohms. Thats not even half the power it can take hence imo limiting the headphone or creating that so called veil. Now I wonder what the Valhalla 2 will do with the HD 650 (that might be my next purchase)
  
 Fostex TH-600 - I can hear the hiss of the amp. The hiss is very apparent. Imo not a good combo.
  
 Oppo PM-3 - Again a nice black background, just a smudge of hiss but nothing like the TH-600. The TH-600 hiss is not tolerable. The amount of hiss with the PM-3 is barely audible. Its Surprising since the TH-600 are 25 ohm and very sensitive. The PM-3 are 26 ohm and very sensitive. I was expecting a lot of hiss.  It must be a planar thing, I don't know. The sound combination is good.   
  
 Oppo PM-2 - Same as the PM-3 but for some reason I hear the hiss just a tad more on the PM-2. Weird. I must reiterate that the amount of hiss on the PM-2 and 3 are very minimal. Good combo as well.
  
 V-moda M-100 - Just like the Fostex TH-600 the hiss is real. Very noticeable. Not a good combo. 
  
 Hifiman RE-600 & JH13 - Just thought I would give it a whirl. Just NO. Not gonna happen. 
  
 AKG K7XX - Waiting on these to ship from Massdrop. From other reviews this is an excellent combo as well. I will report back when I get them.


----------



## Billheiser

bri-fi said:


> After a few days with the Vali I'm very pleased with it. Very detailed, great sound. It gets along incredibly well with some headphones and not so much with others. I thought I would post my quick thoughts of all the headphones I have tried with Vali. Out of all the headphones I currently own the 400i takes the cake with this combo. My AKG K7XX are on the way from Massdrop and I have a feeling those are going to do very well also.
> 
> JRMC>>Bifrost/Modi>>Vali
> 
> ...


 

 The Vali is great but is not made for IEM's or other very sensitive, low impedance headphones, as Schiit notes in their FAQ.  I'd suggest trying the HD650's some more - they should work well with the Vali, and its power should be fine.  The max input power on the 650 means maximum allowable, not recommended amount.
  
 In my experience, I found the HE-400i slightly less good than a HD600 on the Vali.


----------



## Bri-Fi

billheiser said:


> The Vali is great but is not made for IEM's or other very sensitive, low impedance headphones, as Schiit notes in their FAQ.  I'd suggest trying the HD650's some more - they should work well with the Vali, and its power should be fine.  The max input power on the 650 means maximum allowable, not recommended amount.
> 
> In my experience, I found the HE-400i slightly less good than a HD600 on the Vali.


 
 I will definitely be listening to both the 400i and HD650 a lot with the Vali as I prefer its sound with the 400i and HD650's over my Magni and Asgard 2. Have you ever had any experience with the combination of Vali and the AKG Q or K7XX models? I anticipate that to be a great combo as well. I really can't wait for those phones to arrive.


----------



## Billheiser

bri-fi said:


> I will definitely be listening to both the 400i and HD650 a lot with the Vali as I prefer its sound with the 400i and HD650's over my Magni and Asgard 2. Have you ever had any experience with the combination of Vali and the AKG Q or K7XX models? I anticipate that to be a great combo as well. I really can't wait for those phones to arrive.


 

 When I had an AKG K702, it was before I got the Vali.  I used an original Magni or a Nuforce uDAC2 on the AKG's, but never developed love for the K702.  I speculate they would have sounded better on the Vali, but I don't actually know.


----------



## Bri-Fi

billheiser said:


> The Vali is great but is not made for IEM's or other very sensitive, low impedance headphones, as Schiit notes in their FAQ.  I'd suggest trying the HD650's some more - they should work well with the Vali, and its power should be fine.  The max input power on the 650 means maximum allowable, not recommended amount.
> 
> In my experience, I found the HE-400i slightly less good than a HD600 on the Vali.


 
 What is your opinion between Vali and Valhalla 2 paired with the HD600? Any differences?


----------



## Billheiser

bri-fi said:


> What is your opinion between Vali and Valhalla 2 paired with the HD600? Any differences?


 

 See my post #4864 above.


----------



## Deftone

mechanix said:


> I am starting to think that Vali is not a good match for HD650s. It might just be my untrained ears but I am now sure that I do not like what I am hearing. Bass sounds too uncontrolled / boomy and a bit too much in quantity to me. Then again, I am not fond of bass as much as most of the people here, but as a bass player in my earlier youth I do appreciate it when the quantity is right. But seems like for now I will be using my E10k, which might sound ridiculous but true


 
 i think its an excellent sounding combination, but i do only listen to metal i have no idea what its like for jazz, classical or whatever.


----------



## Eee Pee

bri-fi said:


> Have you ever had any experience with the combination of Vali and the AKG Q or K7XX models? I anticipate that to be a great combo as well. I really can't wait for those phones to arrive.


 
  
 Cough
  

  
 Sounds good. Still an overall AKG sound but they make a good pairing.


----------



## Deftone

recommended burn in time before it sounds its best?
  
 im guessing 80 plus hours?


----------



## Astral Abyss

I haven't really noticed any change in sound on mine as I've been using it. Then again I probably have less than 100 hours on it.


----------



## masterfuu

Did little thread searching but would love to hear more about Vali with either DT770 250ohm vs HD600 pairing?
  
 How good is the synergy with these two headphones and vali?


----------



## Billheiser

masterfuu said:


> Did little thread searching but would love to hear more about Vali with either DT770 250ohm vs HD600 pairing?
> 
> How good is the synergy with these two headphones and vali?


 I and others have commented here on how well the Vali and the HD600 pair; read back, only 4875 posts to go!


----------



## cyclops214

billheiser said:


> I and others have commented here on how well the Vali and the HD600 pair; read back, only 4875 posts to go!


 
 And I also picked up the Vali three weeks ago and they are great with both of those cans.


----------



## sling5s

Question: Does the Vali respond differently to low Z and high Z headphones.
 Example brighter with low Z headphones like Grado and warmer with high Z headphones like HD800?
 Or is there no difference.


----------



## StanD

sling5s said:


> Question: Does the Vali respond differently to low Z and high Z headphones.
> Example brighter with low Z headphones like Grado and warmer with high Z headphones like HD800?
> Or is there no difference.


 
 It is a hybrid and has a low impedance ouput stage so if it can drive the headphone's as per its power requirements then impedance may not be an issue. It has an output impedance of 6.5 Ohms so for non magnetic planar (most dynamics) headphones it its best to have a headphone of 8 times this impedance (52 Ohms) for damping. So it can do a decent job of driving my HE-500's, although it might be a drop light on power.


----------



## Vader2k

Aside from the noise floor, should the Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 pair well with the Vali?


----------



## Billheiser

vader2k said:


> Aside from the noise floor, should the Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 pair well with the Vali?


 

 Because of the low impedance of the TH-X00, the background hiss of the Vali might be too evident.  That hiss is NOT a factor in higher impedance headphones such as many Sennheisers and Beyers, and the Vali is very good with those.  It will be worth trying the TH with the Vali if you have one, and no harm would be done.  Tell us what you think if you do pair them.


----------



## Bri-Fi

vader2k said:


> Aside from the noise floor, should the Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 pair well with the Vali?


 
 The amp has sufficient power but the noise floor is way to high. Not a good combo.


----------



## Vader2k

billheiser said:


> Because of the low impedance of the TH-X00, the background hiss of the Vali might be too evident.  That hiss is NOT a factor in higher impedance headphones such as many Sennheisers and Beyers, and the Vali is very good with those.  It will be worth trying the TH with the Vali if you have one, and no harm would be done.  Tell us what you think if you do pair them.


 
  
  


bri-fi said:


> The amp has sufficient power but the noise floor is way to high. Not a good combo.


 
  
 Yeah, I've used the Fidelio X1s off the Vali from time to time and can definitely hear the hiss when sounds are quiet or there is no sound at all.  That said, it hasn't become too bothersome yet, and I like the pairing otherwise.
  
 With the TH-X00 being at an even lower impedance of 25 ohms, I suspect the hiss will be even more apparent.  Nonetheless, I like the tube sound enough (vs the Magni) to give it a go.
  
 I'll be sure to report back later!


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Because of the low impedance of the TH-X00, the background hiss of the Vali might be too evident.  That hiss is NOT a factor in higher impedance headphones such as many Sennheisers and Beyers, and the Vali is very good with those.  It will be worth trying the TH with the Vali if you have one, and no harm would be done.  Tell us what you think if you do pair them.


 
 It is not that low impedance is a factor in hearing the noise but instead the sensitivity of the headphones. My HE-500's are low impedance but not sensitive, thus the Vali's noise does not standout in this pairing.


----------



## tomb

stand said:


> billheiser said:
> 
> 
> > Because of the low impedance of the TH-X00, the background hiss of the Vali might be too evident.  That hiss is NOT a factor in higher impedance headphones such as many Sennheisers and Beyers, and the Vali is very good with those.  It will be worth trying the TH with the Vali if you have one, and no harm would be done.  Tell us what you think if you do pair them.
> ...


 
  
 This is most generally true, but low impedance in a headphone also plays a part in this.  Note that he mentioned _hiss_.  That is a specific noise often caused by _current_ noise through resistors (and other parts) in the amp.  If the overall load is low impedance, this means more _current_ will flow through the amplifier, thus increasing noise.  So, low impedance at the load plays a part, at least.


----------



## StanD

tomb said:


> This is most generally true, but low impedance in a headphone also plays a part in this.  Note that he mentioned _hiss_.  That is a specific noise often caused by _current_ noise through resistors (and other parts) in the amp.  If the overall load is low impedance, this means more _current_ will flow through the amplifier, thus increasing noise.  So, low impedance at the load plays a part, at least.


 
 Most noise, other than hum from the mains are from the semiconductors (transistors/opamps). Most amplifiers are of low output impedance and provide voltage gain. The amount of noise present on the output of the amp and does not really depend on the load impedance unless the load impedance is so low as to debilitate the amp. The sensitivity difference between headphones translates the noise to a difference in SPL. You might notice that most headphones spec sensitivity in dB/V for a good reason.


----------



## Mr Rick

tomb said:


> This is most generally true, but low impedance in a headphone also plays a part in this.  Note that he mentioned _hiss_.  That is a specific noise often caused by _current_ noise through resistors (and other parts) in the amp.  If the overall load is low impedance, this means more _current_ will flow through the amplifier, thus increasing noise.  So, low impedance at the load plays a part, at least.


 
  
 Got to love it when you can hear those little electrons rushing through the resistors. LOL


----------



## tomb

stand said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > This is most generally true, but low impedance in a headphone also plays a part in this.  Note that he mentioned _hiss_.  That is a specific noise often caused by _current_ noise through resistors (and other parts) in the amp.  If the overall load is low impedance, this means more _current_ will flow through the amplifier, thus increasing noise.  So, low impedance at the load plays a part, at least.
> ...


 
  
 This is true in that active devices have more noise.  _Yet, you obviously admit that some sort of low impedance load will debilitate an amp_.  Enough resistance on the output and that debilitation - or hiss - will often subside.
  
 I was only making the point that it's not a black and white issue - totally dependent on sensitivity.  If you want to argue the "_most_ noise" case, fine.  I wasn't.


----------



## StanD

tomb said:


> This is true in that active devices have more noise.  _Yet, you obviously admit that some sort of low impedance load will debilitate an amp_.  Enough resistance on the output and that debilitation - or hiss - will often subside.
> 
> I was only making the point that it's not a black and white issue - totally dependent on sensitivity.  If you want to argue the "_most_ noise" case, fine.  I wasn't.


 
 You emphasised resistors not me, their contribution to noise pales in comparison to the active devices (semiconductors). Please re-read your original statement, "_If the overall load is low impedance, this means more current__ will flow through the amplifier, thus increasing noise.  So, low impedance at the load plays a part, at least_." This is not correct, more current flowing through a lower load impedance does not increase the noise to affect the S/N ratio. Most amps provide voltage gain that is not dependent on the load impedance, If you put a meter on the output and change the load impedance neither the voltage of the signal nor that of the noise will change. If you lower the load impedance way below that of the amp's output impedance then you will lose signal and worse, however, this is not how we use headphones and amps.
 Regarding the Vali, the noise we hear comes from the tubes which do not see the output load. The Vali is a hybrid, the load (headphones) is on the transisitorized output stage.


----------



## tomb

stand said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > This is true in that active devices have more noise.  _Yet, you obviously admit that some sort of low impedance load will debilitate an amp_.  Enough resistance on the output and that debilitation - or hiss - will often subside.
> ...


 
  
  
 This is getting old, but it seems there is a misunderstanding and assumptions about what I've said that are not true.
  
 Heck yes, the tubes present a h*ll of lot more noise than the rest of the circuit - _especially in the Vali._ I was talking specifically about the hybrid buffer, not the tubes.  Even a CMoy sometimes uses resistors on the output to control hiss.


> "If you put a meter on the output and change the load impedance neither the voltage of the signal nor that of the noise will change."


 
 That statement is absolutely false.  _Every_ amp that does not have transformers on the output will produce different ratios of voltage and current, depending on the impedance of the load.  No offense, but I've probably built and sold more tube hybrids than many people.  In the real world, load impedance will change both output and noise, even with transformer output (admittedly the change is a lot less, but transformers are not perfect devices, either).


----------



## StanD

tomb said:


> This is getting old, but it seems there is a misunderstanding and assumptions about what I've said that are not true.
> 
> Heck yes, the tubes present a h*ll of lot more noise than the rest of the circuit - _especially in the Vali._ I was talking specifically about the hybrid buffer, not the tubes.  Even a CMoy sometimes uses resistors on the output to control hiss.
> That statement is absolutely false.  _Every_ amp that does not have transformers on the output will produce different ratios of voltage and current, depending on the impedance of the load.  No offense, but I've probably built and sold more tube hybrids than many people.  In the real world, load impedance will change both output and noise, even with transformer output (admittedly the change is a lot less, but transformers are not perfect devices, either).


 
 Regarding the CMoy, that 38 Ohm resistor is probably more for preventing the load from causing instability by disrupting the negative feedback loop. I really don't see how that is going to be a factor in the perceptable noise level. By the way that 38 Ohm resistor is not a good thing.

  
  
 Sorry but the as I said the output signal voltage is not going to change by much when you vary the load impedance. The reason being is that the the amp is a voltage gain device which will produce a predictible output despite the load. Whatever the gain, the signal level will remain the same with some differences in load impedance. In truth there is a small loss of signal due to the attenuation formed by the output impedance of the amp and the load impedance of the headphones, however, if you do the math it is very small and affects the signal just as much as the noise hence the SNR is the same. Changing the ratio of current and voltage is a consequence of Ohms law, however, by changing the load impedance the current is what will change as the voltage remains pretty much the same. As I've said previously, it is the sensitivity of the headphones that come into play. If you take a careful look it is the sensitivity in dB/V one should consider, if you would like further clarification on this last point I'll be glad to explain why this is more important than dB/mW. Thus to the original point it is the sensitivity not the impedance of the headphones that determines what ambient noise levels we can hear in the Vali or for the matter most amps/chains that have a bit of noise.


----------



## tomb

No one ever said sensitivity didn't matter or that it wasn't the most important factor.  I simply stated that load impedance plays a part and that it, too, has an effect on noise.
  
 I don't know who Mark Houston is, but Tangent is probably the best source on the CMoy besides Chu Moy himself.  R5, as its known in his schematic, is not recommended but sometimes necessary to control noise.  He recommends anything from 10 to 100R, but points out that it's a last resort:
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/cmoy/tweaks.html#r5
  
 Does the resistor reduce gain (and thus, noise) by introducing a voltage drop ahead of the headphone or does it increase the overall impedance seen by the amp, enhancing the stability of the circuit and reducing distortion?  It depends.  I've seen both at play.  It's why I state that impedance plays a part.  Again, I never said it was the _most_ important part.
  
 You chose to not include your previous statement, but I'll quote it again here:


> "If you put a meter on the output and change the load impedance neither the voltage of the signal nor that of the noise will change."


 
  
 That is still incorrect.  The voltage will definitely change when the load impedance changes and so will the current.  You admit that it's simply Ohm's Law, but you somehow maintain that doesn't really happen, and I quote again:


> ... however, by changing the load impedance the current is what will change as the voltage remains pretty much the same. ... Whatever the gain, the signal level will remain the same with some differences in load impedance.


 
 That's wrong, too.
  
 The _actual voltage *gain*_ will change with the load.  It will be higher for a high-impedance load than a low-impedance load.  This is especially true in a tube hybrid.  You attempt to recognize that we're not dealing with a perfect voltage drive amplifier, but then you minimize it:
  


> In truth there is a small loss of signal due to the attenuation formed by the output impedance of the amp and the load impedance of the headphones, however, if you do the math it is very small and affects the signal just as much as the noise hence the SNR is the same.


 
  
 The truth is, that a tube hybrid (and almost every two-stage headphone amplifier) acts with both voltage drive and current drive amplification.  The tube signal stage attempts to act as a perfect voltage drive.  However, the output buffer is set up with zero gain and attempts to act as a current drive.  The result is that you get some mixing from both and these effects are measurable _and audible_.
  
 Here are some measurements from a typical and well-known tube hybrid:
*Voltage gain*
 330R load: 12.4 (21.9dB), 33R load: 7.2 (17.2dB) (same tube for both)
*Noise*
 330R load: -86.1dB, 33R load: -90.6dB
*%THD*
 330R load: 0.287, 33R load: 0.457
  
 All other things being equal, the simple change in static impedance resulted in gain changes, noise changes, and %THD.  Notably, as impedance went up, noise went up but distortion went down.  As impedance went down, the reverse was measured.  One might argue whether a 4.5dB difference is audible, but certainly a 2X distortion is.  I have measured similar numbers even with output transformers on a hybrid.  Transformers are not perfect devices, either.
  
 In the real world, changing load impedance can have a significant effect and can be audible.  Whether one is noise, distortion or hiss can be a terminology debate.  Somehow, we got off on the subject about whether load impedance had any effect at all.  _It most certainly does._
  
 Anyway_, _I appreciate the attention but will bow out for now.  This has gone way off topic and I'm afraid we're confusing a lot of folks.  Just realize that the headphone impedance will cause the amplifier to perform differently regardless of sensitivity.  Not saying that's as significant as sensitivity, but the effects are there.


----------



## StanD

@tomb Using a value of output series resistor that compromises impedance is indicative of a poor design. As I said previously, this is done to promote stability at a performance cost. As this resistor gets close to or exceeds that value of the headphones impedance you will attenuate the output of the amp whihc seems to be a bad move. Using headphones that have a impedance that varies with frequency (as some popular Sennheisers and others) will result in a messed up frequency response. Not to mention that in many cases the damping factor (mostly for bass) will be reduced, not good. I wouldn't buy such an amp, one is better off with a Vali, as long as its 6.5 Ohm output impedance isn't a problem. If that or noise is an issue, there's always the Magni if one is to keep to the same price range.
 Looking for such fringe cases to establish your point seems off base to me. I'm an EE and worked in the field as such not to be swayed by this. Nuff said.


----------



## jimmers

I guess this is all OT, however ...
  
 I don't think zero gain will give you anything but zero out (unless you mean something else like 0dB )


tomb said:


> ...  However, the output buffer is set up with zero gain and attempts to act as a current drive. ...


 


tomb said:


> ...
> Here are some measurements from a typical and well-known tube hybrid:
> *Voltage gain*
> 330R load: 12.4 (21.9dB), 33R load: 7.2 (17.2dB) (same tube for both)
> ...


 
 I would like to know the circuit and testing conditions for these, what I consider strange, results.


----------



## tomb

jimmers said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > ...  However, the output buffer is set up with zero gain and attempts to act as a current drive. ...
> ...




The definition of a "buffer" is something that has unity gain. I admit mixing terms up there in that I meant zero amplification. Zero amplification = gain of 1 (unity). Another way of stating it is that the buffer has zero voltage gain.

Perhaps you can indicate why you think the cited measurements are strange?


----------



## StanD

tomb said:


> The definition of a "buffer" is something that has unity gain. I admit mixing terms up there in that I meant zero amplification. Zero amplification = gain of 1 (unity). Another way of stating it is that the buffer has zero voltage gain.
> 
> Perhaps you can indicate why you think the cited measurements are strange?


 
 Please show us a schematic that places this resistor in the circuit as well as the headphone so we can make sense of it. Otherwise there is no context for the measurements. At one point this is best resolved with PM's as this is OT.


----------



## tomb

stand said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > The definition of a "buffer" is something that has unity gain. I admit mixing terms up there in that I meant zero amplification. Zero amplification = gain of 1 (unity). Another way of stating it is that the buffer has zero voltage gain.
> ...


 
  
 There is no headphone, nor should there be.  The resistances were clearly specified.  Honestly, I don't have the time to draw a picture showing how to connect a resistor to the output of an amp.
  
 Read this about _current noise_ in a resistor: http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/49997/49997.pdf  That's how this argument started.  All I did was suggest to you guys that impedance _also_ plays an effect in the noise of an amp.  Somehow, that progressed to disbelief in whether gain can change at different impedances and whether it was a good idea to add a resistor to the output of an amp.
  
 As for resistors on the output (something else you also questioned), maybe you should read up on Walt Jung, Pete Millett, and Alex Cavalli.  The last two have designed some of the most notable tube hybrids in existence.  All of them used resistors on the output at one time or another.  That includes Walt Jung on his diamond buffer, too: http://waltjung.org/PDFs/WTnT_Op_Amp_Audio_2.pdf  He refers to it as a "load isolator" that "can be increased if necessary."
  
 I have personally built, tweaked and measured dozens of diamond buffers.  A resistor on the output is not crazy, neither is it a reason to reject an amplifier.  I don't subscribe to the religion of super-low-output impedance.  There are instances where that can be a detriment, not an advantage.
  
 I agree that this should be in a PM, but honestly, I don't have time for this.  I already spent too much time in this thread a year or so ago.  I am sorry for the digression. You guys go on to something else ... please.
  
  
 P.S. The measurements were done on a revMH Millett Hybrid built by AMB a few years after Pete's original article.  I have made similar measurements and noted gain and noise differences on many amps, depending on the load impedance.  There's an explanation for it, but it doesn't jive with perfect-world theory.


----------



## StanD

@tomb Lets, see. The first article about resistors, now calculate the level of noise that a cheap carbon film resistor will contribute to a headphone amp. Yes, go do the math in the article and discover the level is nowhere near what you will be able to hear at the gain levels of a headphone amp. One can use Google to find articles, but that doesn't mean the information is relevant to the discussion as this is not a high gain instrumentation amplifier for strain gauges.
 The second article has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Are you trying to confuse the discussion? As far as the resistor goes you didn't state if it was a simple load resistor or a resistor in series with a headphone. In fact the R8 resistor in the article referred to as a load isolator is in series with the actual load, on the outside of the feedback loop, it is not the load. It is probably there to prevent instability due to capacitive loading. You should read the article more carefully and not try to confuse readers.
 The Millet amp does not have short circuit protection so it was recommended to use a series resistor similar to the R8 load isolator to limit the output current. So if you vary the final load impedance it will form an attenuator (voltage divider) and thus appear to affect gain. I wouldn't use such an amp, get a Vali instead. IMO you made an argument that has no value to the case.
  
 Now for people with a Vali that have sensitive IEMs or headphones that have the volume turned low and still hear noise, one can use a resistor L-Pad to cut down the output level while controlling the load impedance presented to the Val while keeping the series resistance to the headphones low enough not to cause side effects. Unfortunately this requires some calculations if one wants to get a good result.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Can't you guys just let it go?  There's no winners here...
  
  
 Anyway, I'm thinking of replacing my Vali with an Ember II, mostly for more control and to roll some tubes.  The Vali was kind of an experiment to see if I liked the tube sound, and I do.  I've since bought a Bifrost MB and Lyr 2 that I use in my office.  The Modi 2U / Vali combo is connected to my gaming PC (although I just use it for music) to a pair of HD650 (and I have a Fostex TH-X00 on the way to try with it as well).  Think it'll be noisy with the Fostex?  They're pretty low impedence.
  
 What do you guys think about all this?


----------



## jimmers

astral abyss said:


> Can't you guys just let it go?  There's no winners here...
> 
> ...  Think it'll be noisy with the Fostex?  They're pretty low impedence.


----------



## StanD

astral abyss said:


> Can't you guys just let it go?  There's no winners here...
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm thinking of replacing my Vali with an Ember II, mostly for more control and to roll some tubes.  The Vali was kind of an experiment to see if I liked the tube sound, and I do.  I've since bought a Bifrost MB and Lyr 2 that I use in my office.  The Modi 2U / Vali combo is connected to my gaming PC (although I just use it for music) to a pair of HD650 (and I have a Fostex TH-X00 on the way to try with it as well).  Think it'll be noisy with the Fostex?  They're pretty low impedence.
> ...


 
 It's not the impedance it's the sensitivity. My HE-500's are low impedance and haven't any issues with noise with the Vali or any other amp.


----------



## senorx12562

stand said:


> It's not the impedance it's the sensitivity. My HE-500's are low impedance and haven't any issues with noise with the Vali or any other amp.




These factors, along with (electrical) efficiency are often conflated, ime. Though they are related, i agree that it is the sensitivity that makes 'phones sensitive (pun intended) to noise.


----------



## StanD

senorx12562 said:


> These factors, along with (electrical) efficiency are often conflated, ime. Though they are related, i agree that it is the sensitivity that makes 'phones sensitive (pun intended) to noise.


 
 Yes efficiency and sensitivity are confusing terms. I think that sensitiviy in mW/dB to be tricky when headohones have varying impedance curves since the output signal voltage of an amp doesn't really change with impedance (unless there are driving issues). The sensitivity is usually given at a particular frequency, typically 1 kHz. Yet if the impedance changes at another frequency then the power (mW) will be different, yet the volume stays the same. Of course if one inserts a series resistor of a significant value then the FR will change. This is why I prefer sensitivity specs as dB/V.
  
 One day when I have some spare time, I'll throw together a resistor L-Pad that might work well with a Vali to reduce the output level which should help with noise. If I do, I'll post the schematics.
 Something like this in stereo and perhaps 32 Ohms might be nice. We could live with less than 100W as well, but that shouldn't be a problem.
http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-Speaker-L-Pad-Attenuator/dp/B0002KR1K0


----------



## MadsSK

Hi Head-fi members,
  
 I was wondering if you think that the Schiit Vali would go well with my Shure SRH1840 ? They are 65 ohms so I am dont know if the impedance is too low to use with this amp. I am interested in an amp which will add some warmth to the sound without removing from the detailed highs or mids. I am especially intersted in more punchy bass (not out of control).
 Do you have any recommendations?
  
 /Mads


----------



## Mr Rick

madssk said:


> Hi Head-fi members,
> 
> I was wondering if you think that the Schiit Vali would go well with my Shure SRH1840 ? They are 65 ohms so I am dont know if the impedance is too low to use with this amp. I am interested in an amp which will add some warmth to the sound without removing from the detailed highs or mids. I am especially intersted in more punchy bass (not out of control).
> Do you have any recommendations?
> ...


 
 It would appear to drive them fine.
  
 http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/shure/srh1840/with/schiit/vali
  
 I can't speak to your sonic preferences.


----------



## bigro

madssk said:


> Hi Head-fi members,
> 
> I was wondering if you think that the Schiit Vali would go well with my Shure SRH1840 ? They are 65 ohms so I am dont know if the impedance is too low to use with this amp. I am interested in an amp which will add some warmth to the sound without removing from the detailed highs or mids. I am especially intersted in more punchy bass (not out of control).
> Do you have any recommendations?
> ...


 

 I Use the PSB M4U1 With the Vali which are 32 Ohms. And I have used the Audio Technica ATHM50X which are 38 ohms with the Vali. Both Work very well. As far as adding warmth, Maybe a Little. It is very hard to tell this is a Tube Hybrid amp. To me, It does what its supposed to do... disappear. As far as making the bass more punchy. Probably Not going to find that with the Vali or even the Magni 2 U for that matter, both amps are fairly neutral.  I may be wrong here but Shure's are not exactly known for being "punchy" I find them very neutral and almost a little dark. You may want to use an EQ for the added bass or find headphones that are known for being bass heavy. There is a whole thread for Bass head Cans.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/716711/the-hardest-hitting-headphones-are-the-extreme-bass-club#post_10502979


----------



## MadsSK

bigro said:


> I Use the PSB M4U1 With the Vali which are 32 Ohms. And I have used the Audio Technica ATHM50X which are 38 ohms with the Vali. Both Work very well. As far as adding warmth, Maybe a Little. It is very hard to tell this is a Tube Hybrid amp. To me, It does what its supposed to do... disappear. As far as making the bass more punchy. Probably Not going to find that with the Vali or even the Magni 2 U for that matter, both amps are fairly neutral.  I may be wrong here but Shure's are not exactly known for being "punchy" I find them very neutral and almost a little dark. You may want to use an EQ for the added bass or find headphones that are known for being bass heavy. There is a whole thread for Bass head Cans.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/716711/the-hardest-hitting-headphones-are-the-extreme-bass-club#post_10502979


 

 The thing is that I do like my Shure's a lot! I love the mids and the highs and I am NOT looking for a pair of "Bass head Cans". I just want to feel the bass a bit more in the low end. Also I have tried using an eq but I feel that it makes the sound across the whole range muddy and worse. As I need a new amp anyways I just want one which adds warmth and bass and not one which removes it or adds treble.


----------



## StanD

madssk said:


> The thing is that I do like my Shure's a lot! I love the mids and the highs and I am NOT looking for a pair of "Bass head Cans". I just want to feel the bass a bit more in the low end. Also I have tried using an eq but I feel that it makes the sound across the whole range muddy and worse. As I need a new amp anyways I just want one which adds warmth and bass and not one which removes it or adds treble.


 
 Amps have a flat FR, so trying to change the tonality (boosting bass) of headphones by using an amp is IMO not going to get that done. Perhaps you need to try a different EQ setting. What type of EQ did you use and what were the settings. I'm not personally familiar with those headphones but perhaps the difference in sound you seek is not in their nature. Perhaps you are looking for more sub bass extension. Did you ever get a chance to listen to a pair of magnetic planar headphones?


----------



## inseconds99

*Vali 2 Released  $169*
  
 Started a new thread for it here.
  
 Looks pretty cool and I was just in the hunt for a new dac/amp. Perfect timing.


----------



## StanD

inseconds99 said:


> *Vali 2 Released  $169*
> 
> Started a new thread for it here.
> 
> Looks pretty cool and I was just in the hunt for a new dac/amp. Perfect timing.


 
 Now that's a real upgrade.


----------



## DagsJT

I got my Vali 1 yesterday and I'm having to pair it with an Astro Mixamp for a DAC and I must admit I wasn't too impressed. Coming from a SoundBlaster G5, the Mixamp & Vali just sounded a bit flat and closed in, lacking soundstage and imaging.
  
 Unfortunately the Modi 2 Uber is out of stock for a few weeks and the ODAC isn't easy to get from a UK seller. Is there any other DAC's I can get in place of the M2U? Preferably with optical and USB input.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

dagsjt said:


> I got my Vali 1 yesterday and I'm having to pair it with an Astro Mixamp for a DAC and I must admit I wasn't too impressed. Coming from a SoundBlaster G5, the Mixamp & Vali just sounded a bit flat and closed in, lacking soundstage and imaging.
> 
> Unfortunately the Modi 2 Uber is out of stock for a few weeks and the ODAC isn't easy to get from a UK seller. Is there any other DAC's I can get in place of the M2U? Preferably with optical and USB input.




Was wondering what can your using with the Vali/mixamp combo?


----------



## DagsJT

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Was wondering what can your using with the Vali/mixamp combo?


 
  
 AKG K7XX's.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Gotcha. I'm running the Vali/mixamp with k712. We Shouldn't be too far off from each other... Anyways I have yet to hear something different from the mixamp. Probably don't know what I am missing. But I do like the Vali/712 combo for music.


----------



## DagsJT

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Gotcha. I'm running the Vali/mixamp with k712. We Shouldn't be too far off from each other... Anyways I have yet to hear something different from the mixamp. Probably don't know what I am missing. But I do like the Vali/712 combo for music.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm not one for audiophile lingo but the G5 really sounded more spacious, more punch to the instruments and you could pick out instruments around you. This combo, not so much. But I'm slowly working my way through this thread and it seems the Vali gets a lot better with burn-in so I'll see how it goes.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

dagsjt said:


> Yeah, I'm not one for audiophile lingo but the G5 really sounded more spacious, more punch to the instruments and you could pick out instruments around you. This combo, not so much. But I'm slowly working my way through this thread and it seems the Vali gets a lot better with burn-in so I'll see how it goes.




I got my Vali the same time as my 712. So both were going through changes ha. I would give it some time if you can allow it.


----------



## nbakid2000

kstuart said:


> I specifically said "majority" because it was simply a demographic analysis, not an assessment of any particular person.
> 
> Usually it is older people who have the money and interest in more expensive audio gear.  These days, due to the economy, it is even more true - younger people are having even more difficulty than usual getting jobs, paying off student loans, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This has elitism written all over it. There's so many wrong points about your argument and where you start off it's incredible.
  
 Just FYI, some background - I'm 29, in college/have student debt, listen to pretty much everything (on a regular basis) you just stated "young people aren't likely to listen to" and I'm looking at a 119 dollar amp because a) $119 b) first experience with a dedicated headphone amp c) have zero experience with tube gear and am interested in tube gear. I am sure there are others (younger and older) than me with the same type of situation and/or musical interest. In fact, I'm pretty sure ANYONE looking a dedicated headphone amp (especially tube based) would be the type to have a pretty wide variety of musical tastes. (though maybe I'm wrong) Your post also makes the claim that anyone who's looking at a "lower cost" amp obviously has limited taste, which is completely the opposite, as we've all seen/heard of those audiophiles (OLDER) who spend thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars on equipment just to play the same 5 or 10 albums on over and over. 'Nuff said on that.
  
 Either way, back on topic, I have zero experience with Schiit gear and am interested in getting a quality headphone amp on the cheap for my Senn 558/600. I have a gift card I can use from Christmas and I'm curious to know first hand what the deal is with tubes. (I come from a solid state background) The only thing I'm curious about is the microphonics and the imbalance of the channels I've read about with this amp. Also I'm curious to know what the Schiit repair cost is if I do buy it used, and it somehow is not "correctly" working. (emailed them, should be getting something back soon)


----------



## kstuart

You're quoting a two year old post, bringing to the top a thread on a discontinued amplifier, and you cannot even bother to actually read the post?
  
 I said more than once "*So, not referring to any particular person, but statistically".*
  
 Statistics are not elitist, they are just numbers.
  
 And btw, no one who spends thousands to play 5 albums is an "audiophile", they are merely trying to show off their status.
  
 Lastly, I would not buy a tube amp as your first headphone amp or as your one headphone amp.  Amongst Schiit gear, the Mani 2 is for that.


----------



## nbakid2000

kstuart said:


> You're quoting a two year old post, bringing to the top a thread on a discontinued amplifier, and you cannot even bother to actually read the post?
> 
> I said more than once "*So, not referring to any particular person, but statistically".*
> 
> ...


 

 A 2 year old post that YOU posted with conviction. If you were like, "that's a 2 year old post, I was in a different headspace back then, my views have changed, please disregard" then that'd be one thing. But you haven't done it yet that I've seen, and you haven't posted any (actual) statistics yet (that I've seen), just your perceived reality.
  
 Back on the Vali, I was looking into it as the final step in a headphone setup. It was cheap (and yes, discontinued) but you can still get them new or new-ish. I would have no problem going with solid state headphone amps from Schiit, but due to the low price and (what seems to me) to be the majority of people on this thread saying the Vali outperformed the SS equipment, I got interested in getting this. On top of that, it seems there's no muss, no fuss with the tubes/swapping in/out/buying additional tubes (except for replacements for $20 from Schiit), which is exactly what I'm looking for. Now, I have no doubt the SS stuff probably sounds good too....I've just seen more people claiming the tube version matches extremely well with the equipment I just happen to have. That's why I was seriously looking into it.
  
 Can you provide some reasons why I should get the Magni 2/Uber over the Vali as my first amp? Maybe the Vali is, in fact, not the amp for me. I'd be curious to know what the deal is and if there is truly a better option for me.


----------



## kstuart

At the time the Vali came out, the equivalent SS amp was the Magni.   Since then, the Magni 2 has been released (which I have not heard).
  
 The Vali does some things very well, and some things not so well, so by that logic, it is not the best for a single amp situation.  And I have not used it with higher impedance headphones such as the HD600.
  
 The other aspect is the ringing problem, which will be more annoying if you use the amp more often (as is likely with a single amp situation).  And the ringing problem is greater in some units, and less in others, which makes used purchases more difficult.


----------



## nbakid2000

kstuart said:


> At the time the Vali came out, the equivalent SS amp was the Magni.   Since then, the Magni 2 has been released (which I have not heard).
> 
> The Vali does some things very well, and some things not so well, so by that logic, it is not the best for a single amp situation.  And I have not used it with higher impedance headphones such as the HD600.
> 
> The other aspect is the ringing problem, which will be more annoying if you use the amp more often (as is likely with a single amp situation).  And the ringing problem is greater in some units, and less in others, which makes used purchases more difficult.


 
  
 I can get it for 63 bucks so I think it's *probably* worth taking an investment into for that amount. I'm just wondering if I should get it used or new from Schiit for 94 or whatever and have the 2 year warranty. Or what it'd cost to have them repair out of warranty. Or if I should just go straight to Magni 2 or the Magni 2 Uber.
  
 edit: blah. Just went with the used Vali for 63 bucks in "Like New" condition. Seller says it's in excellent shape and fairly lightly used. I figure for 63 bucks I can't go wrong.
  
 edit again: got it today. Sounds extremely nice with both the 558 and 600. The Geek Out V2 by itself sounds a little more digital, a little more analytical...the Vali takes some of the "edge" for lack of a better word and smooths out the edges, making it a little warmer and less analytical. It sounds real nice.


----------



## mrandery

I've lost the power supply for the Vali.
  
 I've found a great 16 V AC supply that'll supply enough current, but I need to know the dimensions of the barrel connector.
  
 I've asked Schiit via their tech support email and they refuse to let me know what it is.  Bit bizarre, but they insist that I use their adapter even though it'll cost me more than $40 to have it delivered to me here in the UK.
  
 The adapter I have will do just fine, but I need to know what the connector size is.
  
 Thanks very much


----------



## Billheiser

mrandery said:


> I've lost the power supply for the Vali.
> 
> I've found a great 16 V AC supply that'll supply enough current, but I need to know the dimensions of the barrel connector.
> 
> ...


 

 At least 2 options here:  1) Listen to Schiit tech support.  Or 2) measure it.


----------



## DagsJT

mrandery said:


> I've lost the power supply for the Vali.
> 
> I've found a great 16 V AC supply that'll supply enough current, but I need to know the dimensions of the barrel connector.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why not just ask the UK store if they have one?
  
 http://schiit.eu.com/


----------



## episiarch

mrandery said:


> I've lost the power supply for the Vali.
> 
> I've found a great 16 V AC supply that'll supply enough current, but I need to know the dimensions of the barrel connector.
> 
> ...


 

 I measure mine as 5.4mm OD / 2.1mm ID.  My calipers aren't really great for measuring an ID that small, but I think it's at least approximately right.


----------



## mrandery

I emailed them - no reply.
  
 Their US support sent me to the US store


dagsjt said:


> Why not just ask the UK store if they have one?
> 
> http://schiit.eu.com/


 
 I emailed them - no reply.  It's not on their website.
  
 Their US support sent me to the US store.


----------



## mrandery

episiarch said:


> I measure mine as 5.4mm OD / 2.1mm ID.  My calipers aren't really great for measuring an ID that small, but I think it's at least approximately right.


 

 Much appreciated.  Thanks a lot.


----------



## nbakid2000

. fixed.


----------



## HPiper

Quick question, I have the original Vali. Would it be worth it to upgrade to the Vali 2, or would I be looking at either an Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2 before I would notice an improvement?


----------



## RickB

hpiper said:


> Quick question, I have the original Vali. Would it be worth it to upgrade to the Vali 2, or would I be looking at either an Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2 before I would notice an improvement?


 
  
 The Vali 2 is a clear improvement on the original Vali. To me it sounds better, more detailed and less distortion. And that's just with the stock tube. I haven't tried tube rolling yet, which you couldn't do with Vali 1. There's also the advantage that when the tube dies on the Vali 2, you can just buy another one, versus sending the Vali 1 in for repair.
  
 I think it sounds better than the Asgard 2, at least for the HD600 and DT990.


----------



## rgmffn

rickb said:


> The Vali 2 is a clear improvement on the original Vali. To me it sounds better, more detailed and less distortion. And that's just with the stock tube. I haven't tried tube rolling yet, which you couldn't do with Vali 1. There's also the advantage that when the tube dies on the Vali 2, you can just buy another one, versus sending the Vali 1 in for repair.
> 
> I think it sounds better than the Asgard 2, at least for the HD600 and DT990.


 

  I agree with this assessment 100%.


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## bigro

rgmffn said:


> I agree with this assessment 100%.


 

 +1
  
 I have rolled a Few Tubes. Others Seemed to like the Electro-HArmonix 6922 EH With the Vali 1, So I bought one. At this point I am done rolling that Tube is really really good in the Vali 2.


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## stuck limo

What is the proper way to turn this off/on? I ask because the manual doesn't state if the phones are supposed to be plugged in or not. The issue is that when I'm plugged in, I get a big loud noise/static/jolt noise when the amp actually turns on. (you flip the switch, wait about 10 seconds, then it clicks, then the noise happens) I'm afraid of frying my phones. I already had an issue with this plugged into a u-DAC 3. I had my V-Moda XS phones plugged into the u-DAC and then turned on the amp....big mistake. I got a huge jolt/screeching electric noise and then the right channel on the XS started distorting and making all sorts of interference noises. I unplugged everything and waited a couple minutes and everything turned back to normal....but obviously, now I know not to EVER have anything plugged into the DAC when I turn on the amp.


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## RickB

stuck limo said:


> What is the proper way to turn this off/on? I ask because the manual doesn't state if the phones are supposed to be plugged in or not. The issue is that when I'm plugged in, I get a big loud noise/static/jolt noise when the amp actually turns on. (you flip the switch, wait about 10 seconds, then it clicks, then the noise happens) I'm afraid of frying my phones. I already had an issue with this plugged into a u-DAC 3. I had my V-Moda XS phones plugged into the u-DAC and then turned on the amp....big mistake. I got a huge jolt/screeching electric noise and then the right channel on the XS started distorting and making all sorts of interference noises. I unplugged everything and waited a couple minutes and everything turned back to normal....but obviously, now I know not to EVER have anything plugged into the DAC when I turn on the amp.


 
  
 All (except for the first generation Asgard, for which they offered retrofitting) Schiit amps have a mute relay. They state that it is safe to leave headphones plugged in all the time. Some people still unplug their phones before turning on or off because they are paranoid.
  
 I leave my phones plugged in all the time and I've never had a problem.


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## stuck limo

rickb said:


> All (except for the first generation Asgard, for which they offered retrofitting) Schiit amps have a mute relay. They state that it is safe to leave headphones plugged in all the time. Some people still unplug their phones before turning on or off because they are paranoid.
> 
> I leave my phones plugged in all the time and I've never had a problem.


 
 Thanks, that's great to know. I won't worry (as much) now.


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## Defiant00

rickb said:


> All (except for the first generation Asgard, for which they offered retrofitting) Schiit amps have a mute relay. They state that it is safe to leave headphones plugged in all the time. Some people still unplug their phones before turning on or off because they are paranoid.
> 
> I leave my phones plugged in all the time and I've never had a problem.


 
  


stuck limo said:


> Thanks, that's great to know. I won't worry (as much) now.


 
  
 Technically, all current Schiit amps that need muting relays have them. I believe the Valhalla 2 does not, since because of how tubes power on, it is not necessary.
  
 Outside of that specific exception, yes, RickB is correct


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## Keefkok95

Hi all, really need some help from any audiophile gurus.

I'm currently using the FIIO E10K with Beyer DT990s.

The line out goes to my speakers and headhphone out to my DT990s.

I'm planning to get the Schiit Magni/Vali and more interested in the Vali due to the fact that it is a hybrid tube amp and might provide a more warmer sound.

If I do get the Vali, I plan to connect it through the line out of my FIIO E10K via 3.5mm to RCA cable. My only concern is the ringing sound that occurs with tube amps when you turn them on for the first few minutes. 

-Would the ringing sound affect my speakers as well?
-Should I just connect my speakers through the line out from my DAC as per usual instead of RCA from the Vali to avoid the ringing?

Kindly advise as I've heard it would be better to output the amp (Vali) through line out as opposed to headphone out. If it makes no difference, I might as well use the headphone out to the Vali and use the line out from my DAC to my speakers to avoid the ringing.


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## zentg

boombobby289 said:


> Between Schiit Vali and Little Dot I+, which is a better choice for low impedance cans like AKG K550 & Beyer DT880 (32 Ohm) ?
> Which one has a wider sound stage, better separation, more detail ?
> 
> Does Vali allow tube rolling ?
> If yes, what are the recommended tubes for better sound stage and detail ?


 
 littledot I+ is one of the most respected tube amps out there for low impedance headphones and its only 115$ right now on amazon. the vali 2 at 169$+shipping well... like all schiit products besides the sys, it's over-hyped overpriced bullschiit marketed to seem like the best thing for the price. the vali 2 does not even have a true tube sound, so it would be better to get an o2 amp for cheaper than the vali (as it can compete with thousand dollar+ amps and is one of the best in the world) otherwise if you want a tube amp for low impedance headphones its best to get the littledot I+ and tube roll.


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## Billheiser

zentg said:


> littledot I+ is one of the most respected tube amps out there for low impedance headphones and its only 115$ right now on amazon. the vali 2 at 169$+shipping well... like all schiit products besides the sys, it's over-hyped overpriced bullschiit marketed to seem like the best thing for the price. the vali 2 does not even have a true tube sound, so it would be better to get an o2 amp for cheaper than the vali (as it can compete with thousand dollar+ amps and is one of the best in the world) otherwise if you want a tube amp for low impedance headphones its best to get the littledot I+ and tube roll.


 

 What has been your personal experience owning and listening to a Vali?


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## ziggy7

Most of the time I listen to FLAC albums on the HD600 cans using the LG G Pro 8.0 tablet. I bought the LG tablet because it has a full size USB jack. I have about 150 albums of just about everything but classical I ripped from CD's and loaded on a 128GB USB drive. I can just plug in the drive and the tablet loads the albums complete with the artwork automatically.  The tablet can drive the HD600's , but they really come alive with the Vali (1). My next project will be to rip a bunch of classical albums and load them on another drive. The Vali sounds great to me. It's difficult to imagine a better deal for the $100 I paid for it.


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## sheldaze

ziggy7 said:


> Most of the time I listen to FLAC albums on the HD600 cans using the LG G Pro 8.0 tablet. I bought the LG tablet because it has a full size USB jack. I have about 150 albums of just about everything but classical I ripped from CD's and loaded on a 128GB USB drive. I can just plug in the drive and the tablet loads the albums complete with the artwork automatically.  The tablet can drive the HD600's , but they really come alive with the Vali (1). My next project will be to rip a bunch of classical albums and load them on another drive. The Vali sounds great to me. It's difficult to imagine a better deal for the $100 I paid for it.


 
 Welcome to Head-Fi!
  
 You're definitely in the sweet spot - Vali sounds great to me too. I use it with HD650 and AKG K702 headphones. I was planning to sell. But keeping this little box around, I find myself using it more and more. It just lets so much of the essence of the source and sound come through.
  
 I would normally say, sorry for your wallet. But I think staying around this price point is plenty good. Keep the wallet and the ears happy


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## the Ortherion

Anyone here has a Vali 1 and a pair of VE Monk+? If soo how are your impressions on them? The Monk sound much different on the Vali? Do they sound good on the Vali?
  
 Thank you very much


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## jnak00

I already have a Modi Multibit feeding a Magni 2 Uber, but I'm curious about the "tube" sound.  Schiit has the original Vali as closeout stock for $99.  I'm tempted to pick one up to see what the tube sound is all about.  Any thoughts on running this with Fostex/Massdrop TH-X00s?


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## gr8soundz

I got a closeout Vali from them a couple weeks ago. Sounds very, very good with my 600ohm T1.2. Don't plan to switch headphones too often but my lower impedance phones hiss on the Vali (not too much ringing when swapping phones since Schitt added the soft adhesive pads below each tube).
  
 Vali 2 is not much more but I don't tube roll and (personally) dislike exposed tubes. I've read the Vali 2 is better in some ways like hi/low gain so it should hiss less with some phones.
  
 Both amps are hybrids so the sound is warmer and smoother but still very detailed and spacious without (afaik) being too tubey (I've read the sound from some full tube amps being described as thick and syrupy).


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## Astral Abyss

jnak00 said:


> I already have a Modi Multibit feeding a Magni 2 Uber, but I'm curious about the "tube" sound.  Schiit has the original Vali as closeout stock for $99.  I'm tempted to pick one up to see what the tube sound is all about.  Any thoughts on running this with Fostex/Massdrop TH-X00s?


 
  
 I have the original Vali and it's a great little amp.  Wonderful sound to it.  But... I wouldn't recommend it with the TH-X00.  It has a high noise floor / hiss with those headphones, and with the 6.5ohm output impedance of the Vali, it doesn't dampen the 25ohm TH-X00 very well.  The Vali 2 would be a much better match with that headphone if you want to try out a tube amp.


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## jnak00

Thanks for the input.  I'm pretty happy with my Magni 2 Uber, and I don't think I want to spend $170 + shipping on the Vali 2 just to play around, so I'll stick with the M2U.


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## StanD

jnak00 said:


> Thanks for the input.  I'm pretty happy with my Magni 2 Uber, and I don't think I want to spend $170 + shipping on the Vali 2 just to play around, so I'll stick with the M2U.


 

 Good decision, as you already have good kit. You can spend more time enjoying some music, after all, isn't that what it's all about?


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## jnak00

stand said:


> Good decision, as you already have good kit. You can spend more time enjoying some music, after all, isn't that what it's all about?




Yes but I also enjoy the pursuit, the journey. The thrill of a new addition and trying it out. Of course, budget is always the limiting factor to this.


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## StanD

jnak00 said:


> Yes but I also enjoy the pursuit, the journey. The thrill of a new addition and trying it out. Of course, budget is always the limiting factor to this.


 
 One can easily spend large amounts of money for imaginary results so keep an eye on your wallet.


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## AMRoberts

*Short version:*  Any IEM recommendations that work with the original Vali, possibly including active noise cancellation models, or is it time for an electronics upgrade?
  
*Longer version:*  A good part of my working day is on-site consulting with one customer.  They have recently moved to a new facility, and part of their uplift (?) prior to moving in was drinking the Noise == Privacy Kool-Aid ... They installed noise emitters in the ceiling, adding more to an already noisy HVAC system.  If I measure (off-hours, empty) background is 49-50 dBa in my cube, with line of sight to a half-dozen of the bloody emitters.
  
 In the former location (no noise emitters) I listened to my Vali with DT-250, or the less comfortable but better-isolating DT-150 headphones.  I wear glasses so the headphone pad seal isn't perfect, but I had enough isolation to cope with the old building's HVAC noise.  Not enough for the new location's HVAC plus masking (plus people) noise.  Also, I'm suddenly experiencing a lot of neck and shoulder pain.  There could be a lot of reasons for that, I'm trying to "shotgun" all the possible answers before I end up unable to work, so reducing weight worn on my head all day long seems desirable.
  
 IEMs for better isolation and less weight seems like a possible answer, but most that I've looked at have very low impedance, making me think I'd have a much more audible noise floor.  Anyone have any recommendations for a pair (higher impedance and/or lower efficiency?) that work well with the Vali?  Has anyone tried the Bose Quiet Comfort 20 with the amp?  Having only Bose-supplied ear tips seems a limitation, and reviews for them seem all over the map. 
  
 Or am I going to have to retire the Vali for something else in order to pursue more isolation and less weight?
  
 Thanks,
 Alan


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## gr8soundz

amroberts said:


> IEMs for better isolation and less weight seems like a possible answer, but most that I've looked at have very low impedance, making me think I'd have a much more audible noise floor.  Anyone have any recommendations for a pair (higher impedance and/or lower efficiency?) that work well with the Vali?


 
  
 Can't help with noise cancelling iems since I don't wear them.
  
 But this should help with the noise floor no matter what iems you get or how low their impedance is:
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-iematch/
  
 I use one with my Vali and low impedance headphones (like the 18 ohm Senn M2). No hiss at all on the high setting. Ultra setting (if needed) should keep hiss away for even the most sensitive iems.


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## Hesthrim

Have any owners of the Vali2 used it in multiple input setups?

 I've got three inputs and I'm having a spot of trouble figuring out my topology. The Vali2 looks like it can act as a phono preamp as well as a headphone amp, so I'm hoping I can run my turntable into there, and then use its preamp out to an amp.
  
 The issue with this though is that it wouldn't be in the line for my two other inputs - a digital (multipurpose) and a Chromecast Audio.

 Do I have to combine all three inputs somewhere before splitting them again to run to a headphone amp and a stereo amp separately?


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## DejanM

Well first: you cannot use Vali 2 as a phono preamp. Decent phono MM preamp needs gain of about 50 dB, which is ten times more than Vali 2 can provide. So basically for your TT you need dedicated phono preamp. Then from there you go into dedicated preamplifier, which has to have at least three inputs. It would be very good if that preamplifier would have two pairs of outputs. On one of them you can connect Vali 2 and the other one you can use to connect power amplifier with loudspeakers.
  
 So if you want to remain in the Shiit world that would mean that you need at least: Saga, Vali 2 and Mani. Shiit at the moment does not offer any power amps or speakers.


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## Hesthrim

Ah, ok I see now. I hadn't realized the many different types of preamp. So, the stack would look like:

 TT -> Phono preamp > preamp
 Chromecast > preamp
 DAC > preamp

 Preamp > Stereo Amp
 Preamp > headphone amp

 Thanks so much for clearing that up, there is apparently a whole chunk of this chain I need to educate myself on now.


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## StanD

dejanm said:


> Well first: you cannot use Vali 2 as a phono preamp. Decent phono MM preamp needs gain of about 50 dB, which is ten times more than Vali 2 can provide. So basically for your TT you need dedicated phono preamp. Then from there you go into dedicated preamplifier, which has to have at least three inputs. It would be very good if that preamplifier would have two pairs of outputs. On one of them you can connect Vali 2 and the other one you can use to connect power amplifier with loudspeakers.
> 
> So if you want to remain in the Shiit world that would mean that you need at least: Saga, Vali 2 and Mani. Shiit at the moment does not offer any power amps or speakers.


 

 Second: The Vali 2 doesn't have RIAA equalization. Headphone amps don't do that.


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## DejanM

That is of course true and perhaps even more important.


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## Decommo

Hello,
  
 Can anyone help me on this? I am getting used Vali 1 from USA and I am based in Australia. Here we use 230V and different power plug shape so I guess that I need 3rd party power adapter to go with it. Vali 1 spec states that 16VAC/8W as power. Does this mean that I need to find specifically 8W power adapter?  I am not familiar how power requirement works so not sure which one to get.... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## gr8soundz

> Originally Posted by *Decommo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Can anyone help me on this? I am getting used Vali 1 from USA and I am based in Australia. Here we use 230V and different power plug shape so I guess that I need 3rd party power adapter to go with it. Vali 1 spec states that 16VAC/8W as power. Does this mean that I need to find specifically 8W power adapter?  I am not familiar how power requirement works so not sure which one to get.... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


 
  
 You can order the 16VAC, 230VAC Australian plug direct from Schiit for $10USD:
 http://schiit.com/products/wall-warts


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## Decommo

gr8soundz said:


> > Originally Posted by *Decommo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > Can anyone help me on this? I am getting used Vali 1 from USA and I am based in Australia. Here we use 230V and different power plug shape so I guess that I need 3rd party power adapter to go with it. Vali 1 spec states that 16VAC/8W as power. Does this mean that I need to find specifically 8W power adapter?  I am not familiar how power requirement works so not sure which one to get.... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you...Great to know that we can order adapter from schiit direct. I just checked and it is good price but they charge shipping US$23 which defeats the purpose of getting used pair of amp.
  
 I just searched on eBay and found this one. Do you think this might work? 
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AC-100V-240V-Adapter-DC-15V-500mA-Switching-Power-Supply-0-5A-AU-plug-DC-5-5mm-/351560912532?hash=item51daa9ce94:g:2E8AAOSwwbdWLZnm
  
 Schiit's original one is 16V, 500mA 8W. This one is 15V 500mA 7.5W.


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## gr8soundz

decommo said:


> Thank you...Great to know that we can order adapter from schiit direct. I just checked and it is good price but they charge shipping US$23 which defeats the purpose of getting used pair of amp.
> 
> I just searched on eBay and found this one. Do you think this might work?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure if that one will work. Wouldn't trust it since over time the 1V difference could cause overheating.
  
 I tried using a different power supply when I first got my Vali 1. But it got so hot after less than a minute that I quickly removed it. Just glad I didn't damage either piece.
  
 Schiit AC power supplies are pretty specific and usually power 2 or 3 things inside each amp simultaneously. Not a good idea trying to replace them with a 3rd party. May be safer to use a step-up transformer. Their shipping costs aren't cheap but then their prices are pretty low. Maybe it would've cheaper buying a new, complete Vali 1 from them as I did (not sure about the exchange rate though for $99USD).


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## Decommo

gr8soundz said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you...Great to know that we can order adapter from schiit direct. I just checked and it is good price but they charge shipping US$23 which defeats the purpose of getting used pair of amp.
> ...


 
  
 I see. I will try to stick to original AC adapter. Yep,, I am keen to try Vali 1 so tried to purchase Vali 1 from Schiit direct but it is out of stock so not available any longer if I understood correctly.


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## gr8soundz

decommo said:


> I see. I will try to stick to original AC adapter. Yep,, I am keen to try Vali 1 so tried to purchase Vali 1 from Schiit direct but it is out of stock so not available any longer if I understood correctly.


 
  
 Yeah, I see now they're out of stock.
  
 With most stuff its ok to match by voltage/wattage/amperage but not Schiit products. I'm not a fan of wall-warts but theirs aren't regular ones. I almost found that out the hard way (trying to use a supposed 'cleaner' linear psu).


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## Decommo

gr8soundz said:


> decommo said:
> 
> 
> > I see. I will try to stick to original AC adapter. Yep,, I am keen to try Vali 1 so tried to purchase Vali 1 from Schiit direct but it is out of stock so not available any longer if I understood correctly.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much for your clarification.


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## AMRoberts

Decommo, understand your desire to source something without international shipping, but note that the Vali expects 16V*AC* power.  The eBay part you listed is a switching power supply that produces 15V*DC* output.  I don't believe the Vali will operate with a DC voltage, and there is a significant chance of damage to the Vali if you try it.  If you are still searching for a domestic solution, it needs to supply a 16VAC output with at least 500mA of capacity.
  
 Regards,
 Alan


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## stuck limo

Has anyone used the Vali 1 with m50x? The guy I sold my Vali too is saying the m50s sound "wimpy" or "weak" through the amp but sound fine through a normal MP3 player.


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## stuck limo

Has anyone used the Vali 1 with m50x? The guy I sold my Vali to is saying the m50s sound "wimpy" or "weak" through the amp but sound fine through a normal MP3 player.


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## bigro

stuck limo said:


> Has anyone used the Vali 1 with m50x? The guy I sold my Vali to is saying the m50s sound "wimpy" or "weak" through the amp but sound fine through a normal MP3 player.


 

 I used that combo sometime ago, I did not think it was wimpy or weak, I actually preffered it  to the Modi 2 Uber with some types of music.. What does his chain look like? Is he Eq'ing his MP3 Player?


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## stuck limo

bigro said:


> I used that combo sometime ago, I did not think it was wimpy or weak, I actually preffered it  to the Modi 2 Uber with some types of music.. What does his chain look like? Is he Eq'ing his MP3 Player?


 
  
 From what I can tell, his chain is just a Realtek 7.1 gaming soundcard > Vali > m50x. He said it sounds clear and he can hear everything but there's just no power behind them, unlike the Razor headset he plugs in which sounds crappier but has more oopmh behind it.
  
 Then he plugged in his m50x into a regular mp3 player (not sure what type) and the music just came alive and sounded really exciting and how it was supposed to.
  
 I don't get it. I never used my m40x (which I assume have the same impedence, etc.) with my Vali because I bought the Vali specifically for my 600s.


----------



## bigro

Does Oomph mean Overblown Bass? Yeh this makes no sense I used the M50x with the Vali with no issue, but then again I was not looking for bass that drowned everything out.


----------



## stuck limo

bigro said:


> Does Oomph mean Overblown Bass? Yeh this makes no sense I used the M50x with the Vali with no issue, but then again I was not looking for bass that drowned everything out.


 
  
 I think the dude is used to exaggerated bass.


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## stuck limo (Nov 4, 2018)

purrin said:


> I just lent out the Vali to ultrabike since he has a HD558 and we were curious how that combo would fair.



First off, let me say: the Vali is an incredible amp with the right headphones, and I agree almost 100% with your assessment of the vibrancy, immediancy, excitement, and general sound signature.

In regards to 558 + Vali: Very badly, in my experience. I used to own the Vali and paired it with the 558 back in the day. Soundstage collapsed, drums got pushed back way in the mix and became extremely wimpy sounding, the entire sound signature became a bit tinny, and the clarity dropped and became very muffled.

Sold the Vali eventually to fund a Valhalla 2 (to a guy who needed to get into higher end audio) and loved the Valhalla 2. Last week I found a Vali again for sale for cheap and jumped at the opportunity to own it again. I plugged in my 558 after reading your assessment of the pairing and, yep, my original experience with the pairing came right back.

Between the 600 and 800 on the Vali: I think the 600 pairs better, but I'm still experimenting so the jury is out on that.

Between the Vali and the Valhalla 2.....I think I like the Vali more, honestly. It has a magic that the Valhalla 2 is lacking. The energy, the sense of rhythm, the way it handles vocals, the depth of the soundstage....can't be touched by the Valhalla 2 (w/ stock tubes). They're completely different listening experiences. The Vali sounds more "real" for a lack of better word, more visceral. I get the sense that the soundstage is filled by living, breathing things. There's a lot of weight and body to the instruments. Vocals just float and hang in the air in front of you. It's incredible. The Valhalla 2 is more detailed, with more air, space and wider soundstage (cleaner and clearer sounding) but sounds like you're listening to a recording.

Anyway, I'm glad to be back on the Vali train.


----------

