# Portable amp for LCD2



## edvardd

(Edit) Here you can discuss views about portable amps that go well and perhaps not so well with LCD2. Are there some amps that have better synergy with LCD2?
   
  Some suggested amps
   
  -Ray Samuels Sr-71b
  -Ibasso PB1/2
  -Justin AudioUHA-120
 -Justin Audio AHA-120
  -Meir CORDA 2STEPDANCE(coming in june)
  -Lisa 3


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## grokit

iBasso Toucan. That's the one I would like to try anyways.


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## zilch0md

Great idea for a thread!
   
  I suspect the Lisa III can better the current (out of production) Stepdance, but I've never heard the Lisa III.
   
  Mike


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## brasewel

Has anyone used something like the Udac2 or HDP for the LCD-2?


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## KevinWolff

Sr-71b according to head Fi tv gives desktop like performance. Wide soundstage in balanced mode. My LCD-2's arrive Monday. I have single ended sr71a and will post impressions then. I'll test with 2 dacs as well. MsII+ and anedio d1 for an affordable to entry reference level dac comparison. 
Recabling lcd-2 with Alo 2nd best cable (the best doesn't offer 1/8 plug). I forget model name.


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## KevinWolff

brasewel said:


> Has anyone used something like the Udac2 or HDP for the LCD-2?





Udac2 was my first dac with my hd650's and they sounded ok but not great. Too entry level for LCD-2 i'd imagine. MsII+ sounded so much better.


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## brasewel

Well the Udac2 was my first dac as well with my D2k and they sounded pretty decent. I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to power the LCDs.


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Has anyone used something like the Udac2 or HDP for the LCD-2?


 
   
  Even though the μDAC-2 is capable of driving the LCD-2s, they are worthy of more, like:
   
  The Centrance DACPort.
http://www.centrance.com/products/dacport/


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## krairoek

Has anybody try it with Mustang or not(wait for my LCD-2 to). I use Mustang with my entire headphone and result is very good musical feeling but not large soundstage. May be my next step is [size=8.0pt]Sr-71b[/size].


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## KevinWolff

I think that's a staple of the single ended rsa portables. Small soundstage. However the overall sound of Ray's portables outweighs the soundstage issue for most RSA fans.
   
  Headfonia Mike actually prefers the single ended sound, but had to admit that if you prefer a wider soundstage, the sr71b was the way to go. Bass is stronger too. Sounds like a portable match made in hifi heaven for the lcd-2.
   
  I love my sr-71a and plan to keep it for single ended use (sr71b apparently doesn't do single ended quite as well as the 71a according to Headfonia),  but I'm pretty sure I'm going to add an sr-71b within the next few months. Or I may save up for the liquid fire desktop amp that the lcd-2 people are raving about. But that's another topic (and tax bracket)


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## KevinWolff

Oh, and don't forget the sr71b uses the protector plug so you have to factor in a new cable or have your old cable re-terminated with the protector proprietary plug. But then again, any balanced amp is gonna require 3 or 4 pin xlr, so it costs either way. The slight difference is the "proprietary" aspect of the protector plug.


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## GLdgShDjKsHT

get a balanced source too if you want it to sound at its best


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## daveathall

I use my LCD-2s with a Just Audio uHA 120 and iPod classic. sounds great.


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## edvardd

I thought that perhaps many people had this topic in mind but there was no actuall thread about  
   
*Kevinwolff*, I have MS2+ too so I would be very interested in hearing about you future adventure into portable amps.
   
  I think I'll wait a bit until I buy another portable amp for LCD2. sounds quite clear and full sounding, and the soundstage is ok but not great.


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## edvardd

It seems quite affordable. I'm looking more at PB2
   
  The thing about going balanced is that it seems so expensive when you have to buy another cable too.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> iBasso Toucan. That's the one I would like to try anyways.


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## grokit

Quote: 





edvardd said:


> It seems quite affordable. I'm looking more at PB2
> 
> The thing about going balanced is that it seems so expensive when you have to buy another cable too.


 

 You could just re-terminate the stock cable with a mini-xlr and go from there with different adapters but I see your point. Just thinking about the best sound for the buck as the LCD-2 seems to respond well to balanced amplification. The PB2 sounds like an even better better option, more $ but more power.


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> You could just re-terminate the stock cable with a mini-xlr and go from there with different adapters but I see your point. Just thinking about the best sound for the buck *as the LCD-2 seems to respond well to balanced amplification*. The PB2 sounds like an even better better option, more $ but more power.


 

 "Balanced" amplification?  What is that vs. something else?  Do you mean that a 200mWPC "balanced" amp will sound better than a 2WPC single ended amp?  Or a 2WPC balanced amp will sound better than a 2WPC SE amp?  What is this thing with "balanced" magic with no other qualifiers?


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## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> "Balanced" amplification?  What is that vs. something else?  Do you mean that a 200mWPC "balanced" amp will sound better than a 2WPC single ended amp?  Or a 2WPC balanced amp will sound better than a 2WPC SE amp?  What is this thing with "balanced" magic with no other qualifiers?


 

 Don't understand the question, vs. SE, yes with the LCD-2 according to consensus, ditto, and deal with it


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Don't understand the question, vs. SE, yes with the LCD-2 according to consensus, yes again, and *huh*?


 

 Power matters far more than topology.


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## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Power matters far more than topology.


 

 Man you're quick! I never said it didn't.


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I never said it didn't.


 

  I seemed to me that you were saying that with all other things being equal, a balanced amp would sound better on an LCD-2 than a SE amp.  Sorry, I guess I misunderstood you.


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## Pale Rider

Power does matter more than topology with the LCD-2s. My RSA Apache, a desktop, had a 32v swing, the same I believe as the PB2. I sold it, in part because it simply could not drive the LCD-2s adequately on dynamic, high resolution material without clipping in SE or balanced on any gain setting. My SE Taboo drives them handily. 

Having said that, the PB2 is an interesting little amp. I could see wanting to be able to carry the LCD-2s to a destination location and have adequate amplification when I get there, but actual portable use? Really?


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## edvardd

Personally I'm not looking more into semi-portable, that is something I can move around at home and take witth me in my bag when I travel.


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## grokit

Quote: 





pale rider said:


> Power does matter more than topology with the LCD-2s. My RSA Apache, a desktop, had a 32v swing, the same I believe as the PB2. I sold it, in part because it simply could not drive the LCD-2s adequately on dynamic, high resolution material without clipping in SE or balanced on any gain setting. My SE Taboo drives them handily.
> 
> Having said that, the PB2 is an interesting little amp. I could see wanting to be able to carry the LCD-2s to a destination location and have adequate amplification when I get there, but actual portable use? Really?


 

 Wow, that's the first time I have heard that about the Apache with the LCD-2, I would guess that a higher-voltage source might make a difference there.


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## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I seemed to me that you were saying that with all other things being equal, a balanced amp would sound better on an LCD-2 than a SE amp.  Sorry, I guess I misunderstood you.


 

 No worries. All other things being equal is easier said than done when comparing SE to balanced though, as there's a lot of variables with input/output, source/amp capability etc. I agree that overall power as well as the quality of components and overall design topology are more important than SE vs. balanced.


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## brasewel

^^ Lol I have his Apache. Greg I find that really odd since I don't have any issues driving my LCDs. Setting the gain on low is more than enough to drive them. It might have been a voltage issue.
  Infact, the Apache with my Havana is the best combo I've ever heard for the LCD-2s and I've listened to most of the high-end tube amps.


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Wow, that's the first time I have heard that about the Apache with the LCD-2, I would guess that a higher-voltage source might make a difference there.


 
  Higher voltage sources would not help anything if current delivery capability is what's lacking in a given amplifier.  It would simply be driven into clipping at lower _volume position_ settings by a higher voltage source.  The statement has been made that Orthos like lots of voltage.  That is not entirely true.  They like lots of power.  Power is voltage times current.  You need both voltage and current to deliver the power.


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## grokit

I know but this is very different than all the other testimonials I've read regarding this matchup so I am trying to account for the varience.


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## brasewel

Well he sold me his amp and I have no problems driving the LCDs even at low gain so I don't know what could have been the issue.


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## zilch0md

Hi Bolardito!
   
  Quote (from the Amp recommendations for Audeze LCD-2 thread):
   
   


bolardito said:


> Hi everyone. I'm really tempted to get the LCD-2 however I don't want to spend a ton of money getting a DAC and amp. I currently own a Lisa 3 amp with the LLP power supply combo so I would be pairing the LCD2 with this amp and an Ipod Classic and CLAS as source. So I have two questions that hopefully someone can help me answering:
> 
> 1. Is the Lisa 3 with the LLP capable of driving the LCD2?
> 2. If someone have tried this combo, is there a good sinergy between the LCD2 and the Lisa 3?
> ...



   
  Ianmedium uses an iPod Classic + CLAS + Meier Stepdance + LCD-2 and is extremely pleased with his rig, but like me, he has expressed some curiosity regarding the more expensive Lisa III.  There are a couple of people who have had a chance to compare the Lisa III with the Stepdance and there's more than a couple of them (I don't remember who) that have said the Lisa III is significantly "better" than the Stepdance, as sell it should be, considering the price difference.
   
  Like Ianmedium, I use the Stepdance with the LCD-2, but I don' use the iPod Classic + CLAS.  My source is a Sony PCM-M10 recorder/player (see my pics, below).
   
  Ian and I are both huge fans of the Stepdance with LCD-2, so unless there's some unsavory lack of synergy between the Lisa III and LCD-2, I suspect the portable rig you have described would sound every bit as good, if not bettter.  This would be especially likely in terms of dynamics, given the higher power output of the Lisa III.
   
  Mike


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## Bolardito

Hey Mike I appreciate your in depth response. Thanks a lot. I guess I´ll pull the trigger since my main concern was that the power output would not be enough. I´ll also get the black magic Q cable.
   
  I´ll write my impressions as soon as I have some time with the rig.


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## zilch0md

That's cool, Bolardito!
   
  I had pretty much concluded that Ian has *THE* transportable LCD-2 rig of choice, given the outstanding reputation of both the CLAS and the Stepdance, but that Lisa III could actually kick things up a notch further still.  I know of people out there who have the CLAS or they have the Lisa III or they have the LCD-2, but I don't know of anyone using all of these components together.  (Not that  I get around much!)
   
  Ian will be interested in your impressions as well, I'm sure.  Do post a picture of your stack when you get it assembled!
   





   
  Mike


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## ianmedium

Thanks Mike! 

Bolardito. I too still toy with the idea of the Lisa III, I will be very interested in your views on the synergy, something tells me it will be excellent. Thanks to Mike's tireless work on the subject of power supplies for the stepdance I now enjoy a quite remarkable sound with my rig. This is not only a proud owners view but a number of folks with nice equipment have heard my set up and can't believe so much can come from a portable amp and portable system. 

The ultimate accolade has come from well worn HiFi salesman! One of them once called to a colleague and said. "Eh, come listen to a $100,000 portable HiFi"! ( I make no apologies for repeating that as I loved his comment as you can imagine!).

I can highly recommend the Stepdance and safely recommend the new one coming as Jan has said it is all but the same as the original with a few tweeks. The extra weight of the battery pack is worth it. It makes a wonderful amp a stunning amp. I just wish Skylab could have tried the Stepdance with the external battery pack and given his thoughts. Mike and I both have the feeling the race would have been even closer than it was!

I still look at the Lisa and may bite the bullet one day. I like the design ethos of it.. Who knows!


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## zilch0md

Yeah, I wish I had been there to hear that salesman's comment!
   
  It's so true!
   
  Mike


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## mrspeakers

The DACPort does great with the LCD if y are off a laptop and don't need self-powered amps. I find 650mW to be more than adequate, but I also don't go for LOUD.

The D12 was not adequate, it felt on the edge at normal volumes, especially if it was bass heavy. I am upgrading to a D6. 

I like having the DAC/amp as the resolution is high enough to hear the improvement.


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## mrspeakers

Have any of you compared the Lisa III to the DACPort, btw?


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## travisg

I have a Dacport and love it with my LCD-2's


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## PinSquid

Hey guys, new to the forum but a bit of a lurker, but I didn't want to start a new topic since this one will more or less address my question. I recently purchased some LCD-2s as my first big jump into audiophile-ness, and I'm loving them, but I'm definitely aware that my portable amp needs an upgrade for these phones (It's currently an E7, which can actually drive them fine as far as volume is concerned, but I feel like I'm missing a significant amount of quality by not having a better amp).
   
  If I'm on a bit of a budget, it looks like the Stepdance is the best way to go, but I saw that the 2Stepdance just recently came out. Has anybody tried this with their LCD-2's yet, and if so, is it as good? The sound signature is supposed to be identical, just with a thinner case and better power consumption. Either option I'm assuming is leagues ahead of using an E7.
   
  Also, pardon my naivety, but I keep seeing the term "CLAS". What exactly is this?
   
  Thanks in advance for any replies. The world of audiophile is a lot to take in over a short while.


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





pinsquid said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum but a bit of a lurker, but I didn't want to start a new topic since this one will more or less address my question. I recently purchased some LCD-2s as my first big jump into audiophile-ness, and I'm loving them, but I'm definitely aware that my portable amp needs an upgrade for these phones (It's currently an E7, which can actually drive them fine as far as volume is concerned, but I feel like I'm missing a significant amount of quality by not having a better amp).
> 
> If I'm on a bit of a budget, it looks like the Stepdance is the best way to go, but I saw that the 2Stepdance just recently came out. Has anybody tried this with their LCD-2's yet, and if so, is it as good? The sound signature is supposed to be identical, just with a thinner case and better power consumption. Either option I'm assuming is leagues ahead of using an E7.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you have to have portable amplification?  You will get much better bang for your buck if you forgo the portable thing.


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## Austin Morrow

Anyone tried the Audeze'e with the TTVJ Slim?


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## zilch0md

PinSquid,
  
  Quote: 





pinsquid said:


> [snip]
> 
> Also, pardon my naivety, but I keep seeing the term "CLAS". What exactly is this?


 
   
  "CLAS" is the acronym for *Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo*:  http://www.cypherlabs.com/
   
  Mike


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## PinSquid

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Do you have to have portable amplification?  You will get much better bang for your buck if you forgo the portable thing.


 

 I do, unfortunately, although if you have any recommendations for desktop amps I'd like to hear it. It's just that right now, and probably for the next few years, I'll be on the move a good deal.
   


  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> PinSquid,
> 
> 
> "CLAS" is the acronym for *Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo*:  http://www.cypherlabs.com/
> ...


 

  
  Thanks very much. I never knew that was the proper acronym for that.


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## ArrigoShred

Hey I just wanted to ask if the ALO RX Mk2 is capable of juicing up the LCD-2 
 Since I intend to buy the LCD2 in the near future.

 Thanks!


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





arrigoshred said:


> Hey I just wanted to ask if the ALO RX Mk2 is capable of juicing up the LCD-2
> Since I intend to buy the LCD2 in the near future.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  I found the ALO Rx to work surprisingly well with the LCD-2s.  Clean and balanced, with surprising dynamics from a portable.  From what I've read the Meier Stepdance is supposed to do well also, but I haven't heard it and I own the Rx and the LCD-2s.


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## evolutionx

I find my RSA SR-71B with CLAS drives the LCD-2 better than RX Mk-2.    More punch and especially great for rock and pop music.


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## wendine

I use my LCD2 Rev.2 with Graham Slee Voyager. It sounds great... very neutral sound. But LCD2 sounds so much better with my Graham Slee Solo UL. However, it's not in the portable amp category. I might try RSA SR-71A or SR-71B in the future.


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## Br777

and the ALO continental?  how does this compare?


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## kingice10

I don't like the ALO Rx MK2 with the LCD-2. It sounded a bit dry in them...SR71B is much better, with a warm tonality. I will have to try 2Stepdance tomorrow.


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## Girls Generation

Anyone have any information towards LCD2 + AHA120 combo? Looks like the new TriadAudio L3 is even better than the Lisa III so right now it's:

SR71B vs. 15volt Stepdance vs. L3 (vs. AHA 120?)


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## samthedog

I have been lurking in the forums for a while and have yet to post so here goes...
   
  Sorry if I'm highjacking the htread but I couldn't post a seperate thread on a related topic (maybe my post count wasn't high enough?).
   
  I keep seeing talk of portable amps and DAC's with the LCD-2's - what about the player itself? What are you good people using?
   
  The reason I ask this is because given the cost of portable amps, I think I will go with a desk-top first, then a portable later. If you don't have the option of having the portable amp available for whatever reason (cost, inconvenience of carrying etc..), what player would you guys recommend?


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## Girls Generation

samthedog said:


> I have been lurking in the forums for a while and have yet to post so here goes...
> 
> Sorry if I'm highjacking the htread but I couldn't post a seperate thread on a related topic (maybe my post count wasn't high enough?).
> 
> ...




Some here use an iDevice with a CLAS (Cypherlabs Algorhythm Solo) paired with an amp.
Some may use a Hifiman HM-801 with an amp.
Some may use an iDevice with an HP-P1 with an amp.

Cowon J3, Fiio E7, or a Sansa Clip is good to use without a DAC.

If you cannot get an amp, that really just boils down to your being limited in what headphones to use. I've heard that the LCD2 "could" be driven by just an iPod. However, you'll be missing out on what these beasts can do. That leads to the question of, why did you buy a $1000 headphone if you're not going to drive it with an amp and make the most use out of it?  

Good luck!


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## samthedog

Thanks for the reply GG. No, I have a full-size amp at home which would be used with the LCD-2's, however I was more curious for an option at work. Sometimes I just want a little luxury while on the job but since this hobby requires so much cash, I am not willing to sell a kidney at the moment to get the cans + portable amp combo at the moment.
   
  Theoretically, I could get better sound with some HD650's AND a portable amp like the RSA Predator for the same cost as the LCD-2's on their own. ****, why does there have to be so much choice? I was looking for a Henry Ford type choice (you can have any colour you want, as long as it's black).


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## grokit

Theoretically, you'd still get better sound out of the LCD-2 no matter which player/amp you choose if you're comparing it to the HD650.


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## Girls Generation

grokit said:


> Theoretically, you'd still get better sound out of the LCD-2 no matter which player/amp you choose if you're comparing it to the HD650.




Got any suggestions, or info on portable amps with LCD2?


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## dyl1dyl

IMO, after trying quite a few of the portable amps, the rsa 71b in balanced mode is by the best for the LCD 2s (even better with the HE-6 though)


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## grokit

I've heard great things about the LCD-2/71B combo. What about the iBasso PB1/PB2 balanced portables, did you get a chance to compare?


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## Br777

I owned the rxmkII and did not feel that it synergized well at all the the LCD-2
   
  the SR71-B on the other hand is a really great match.  I bought it after reading Skylab's "requiem"  portable amp comparison where he compared the L3, stepdance, and sr71b and came to the conclusion that in balanced mode, the sr71b was the best.  
   
  Having tried the sr71b in single ended mode for several days before i reterminated to the balanced mode, i have to say i was surprised at just how much better the LCD-2's sounded in balanced mode.  I was expecting the kind of difference where i would be questioning if anything really happened or not, but this was very easy to hear and very pleasing.
   
  I cant recommend this combo enough.   i currently use an ipod touch 4g with equalizer app - LOD - sr71b balanced end - LCD-2.   I'm almost certain i'm going to cave and buy a CLAS, and cant imagine what i'm in for then.


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## googleli

Dudes - I am looking for the ultimate bad arse portable combo for the LCD2, so I can use it in office and at the same time be able to carry it around in my luggage during my vacation and use the Energizer XP8000 to charge the devices.
   
  I currently have the following portable stuff:
   
  Digital transport: iPhone4, iPad2
  IStuff DAC: CLAS, Fostex HP-P1
  Amps: Meier Stepdance (15V), SR71A
  Headphone intended to drive: LCD2. I also have the T5p and ED10 but the main focus is to drive the LCD2 well.
   
  My question:
  Would a full balanced setup using the SR71B be an upgrade over the above combos I have? I would need to add an iBasso thing in between the CLAS/Fostex and the SR71B to give the SR71B fully balanced input. I will also need to buy the SR71B-LCD2 cable from ALO. As my vacation is drawing near I may need to use a 3.5mm-SR71B connector first - would it defeat the purpose of balanced output from the SR71B?
   
  In short, would this contemplated combo:
   
  iPhone/iPad -> CLAS/Fostex -> digital out to iBasso -> Balanced out to SR71B -> Balanced output to LCD2
   
  be a considerable step up over my current office rig, i.e.
   
  iPhone/iPad -> CLAS/Fostex -> L/O to SR71A / 15V Stepdance?
   
  How about changing the amp to Lisa 3?
   
  Thanks all !!!


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## zilch0md

Girls Generation has been pursuing almost the exact same question, and although he/she hasn't heard the fully balanced SR71B setup yet, he/she has been soliciting a lot of advice from other people - *researching it very thoroughly, in my opinion - with an admirable degree of diligence and persistence.  *
   
  You might want to PM Girls Generation and ask why he/she concluded that the fully balanced SR71B setup would be superior - and ask for names of people on whom GG is relying for their opinions.  I think Warp08 is among them.
   
  Mike


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## grokit

Quote: 





googleli said:


> iPhone/iPad -> CLAS/Fostex -> digital out to iBasso -> Balanced out to SR71B -> Balanced output to LCD2


 
   
  What's the "iBasso thing"?


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## Girls Generation

Mike's right. I'm your person to ask, googleli.

Shoot me a pm with the specific questions possible and I'll pour out my knowledge unto you  and don't worry about bothering me. I actually want to help you, as I've done my share of bothering people
I don't think I should be making comparisons not in favor of some amps publicly as it might possibly affect said company's sales...


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## zilch0md

Hi grokit,
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> What's the "iBasso thing"?


 
   


 I'm guessing, but given that googleli used the words "digital out to iBasso" in between "CLAS/Fostex" and "Balanced out to SR71B"...  I'm thinking he must be talking about using either the iBasso DB1 Boomslang or the iBasso DB2 Boomslang2 (portable DACs) to supply the SR71B with a balanced input, feeding the Boomslang(2) with digital out from the Solo - which would mean he intends to bypass the DAC inside the Solo to provide the SR71B with a balanced input from the Boomslang's DAC.  The Solo would only be there to provide the Boomslang with S/PDIF from an iDevice. 
   
  My hunch is based in part on discussions I've had with GG regarding his/her research, but I don't know for sure what googleli has in mind.  
   
  What say ye, googleli?
   
  Mike


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## obazavil

Interesting...
   
  So if googleli connects like this:
   
  HP-P1 (digital out) -> DB2 (digital in) -> DB2 (balanced analog out)  -> SR71b (balanced analog in) -> balanced ALO cable -> LCD2
   
  ... he will be skipping the great AKM dac from HP-P1 to use the wolfson from DB2 to balance the signal...
   
  hmm.. not so tempting
   
  I think googleli wants to go iPhone -> LCD2 100% balanced


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## zilch0md

I hear you!   Whether he uses the CLAS or the Fostex, he'll be bypassing some great DACs just to get S/PDIF from his iDevice of choice, but in the case of the Fostex, he'd be paying for an amp that's bypassed in addition to bypassing its DAC.   There's got to be a less expensive, less bulky way to supply the SR71B with a balanced analog input, that's portable - but I don't know what that would be.  The whole exercise would have me seriously questioning the value of having a balanced source in addition to balanced output.
   
  Mike


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## Girls Generation

WHICH IS WHY my conclusion to the fully balanced input/output [trans]portable rig is this:

iPod - CLAS - RSA Portable Balanced DAC - RSA SR71B - LCD2

Ray Samuels' new portable balanced DAC will be coming in 3-4 months, so wait until then.



There's more to CLAS than it being just a DAC... but I do feel the fostex HP-P1 will be a very redundant purchase, and it will just add weight and a bigger box to the stack...


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## grokit

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> The whole exercise would have me seriously questioning the value of having a balanced source in addition to balanced output.


 

  I hear you there, it's something I would want to demo first to see if it's worth it for sure. Two DACs in a portable rig = nuts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !
   
  But this is a crazy hobby sometimes...


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## Girls Generation

Which is why I concluded that one, who's getting this rig, is to wait for the RSA portable balanced DAC. I'm positive Ray will be using a superior DAC.


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## grokit

But will it extract digital out of an iPod?


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## Girls Generation

We would still be using the CLAS in this stack.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I hear you there, it's something I would want to demo first to see if it's worth it for sure. Two DACs in a portable rig = nuts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you count the one in the Idevice that is three dac in a portable rig=a cracked nut.


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## obazavil

I'm saying to myself: "stay with LOD -> Fiio E7 -> headphones"
   
  haha...
   
  This is insane... but fun.
   
  I'm going to buy LCD2 and Edition 8 next month, so I will out of cash for a while, but seeing which portable amp I can use is very, very fun.
   
  I started with arrow, then stepdance came, then this balanced thing with sr71b, then this fostex/clas
   
  Damn... I must ban myself from here...


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





jalo said:


> If you count the one in the Idevice that is three dac in a portable rig=a crack nut.


 


  don't forget the nuforce ido... you can use that and a xp8000 too
   
  hahah


----------



## Girls Generation

Just to clear things up:

This is what I concluded to be the best portable system as of as soon as the RSA DAC comes out. 

iPod - CLAS - RSA Portable Balanced DAC - RSA SR71B - LCD2

Then come cables, and I recommend Double Helix Cables' UPOCC copper Nucleotide Molecule wire, or Norse Audio's new Norn. If you really want to customize your cables, to the point of aesthetics, I recommend Double Helix Cables (Peter/scootermafia) as he seems to be the most flexible in customizing cables.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> I'm saying to myself: "stay with LOD -> Fiio E7 -> headphones"
> 
> haha...
> 
> ...


 

 Hahahaha, coincidentally I am going to sell my LCD2 and ED8 LE next.  Interested


----------



## mrspeakers

I'm not sure why everyone here gets so excited about balanced vs. single ended, but I have to tell you, both paths are just a means to an end, and there are many single-ended solutions that offer the clarity and power of balanced units.  The place where balanced matters most, IMHO, is low-level interconnects where this really reduces noise-coupling from power or RFI.  For amps, the better ones may rival the better single ended, but topology, construction and other factors may make one execution better for a user/phone combination than another...  Just saying...
   
  (for the record, I'm not biased against balanced; I have a Theta Dreadnaught amp in my home theatre, 2000+ Watts of real power, all fully balanced, and I love it.  But I have heard some great single ended amps I like as well)


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Hahahaha, coincidentally I am going to sell my LCD2 and ED8 LE next.  Interested


 


  Send me a PM with the prices and details


----------



## Girls Generation

mrspeakers said:


> I'm not sure why everyone here gets so excited about balanced vs. single ended, but I have to tell you, both paths are just a means to an end, and there are many single-ended solutions that offer the clarity and power of balanced units.  The place where balanced matters most, IMHO, is low-level interconnects where this really reduces noise-coupling from power or RFI.  For amps, the better ones may rival the better single ended, but topology, construction and other factors may make one execution better for a user/phone combination than another...  Just saying...
> 
> (for the record, I'm not biased against balanced; I have a Theta Dreadnaught amp in my home theatre, 2000+ Watts of real power, all fully balanced, and I love it.  But I have heard some great single ended amps I like as well)




Many of us also doubted if going balanced will improve sound. However...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-56-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared-final-update-12-20-10-added-rsa-sr-71b/3090#post_7214061

And Skylab is a serious man, with serious reviews...


----------



## Minh3184

Skylab prefers the SR-71B in balanced mode over the other 2 amps even with single-ended source. Well I'm convinced =) time to pull the trigger!
   
  Anybody here know when the Norse Audio website will be up and running?


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Many of us also doubted if going balanced will improve sound. However...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-56-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared-final-update-12-20-10-added-rsa-sr-71b/3090#post_7214061
> 
> And Skylab is a serious man, with serious reviews...


 
   
  A balanced amp being run single ended is not the same as a pure single ended amp.  In general, when run single ended, it can reasonably be expected to perform worse single ended than balanced (which propagates the belief, I think, that balanced *must* somehow be better).  Many balanced amps are definitely better balanced than single ended because they have probably been optimized for minimal distortion, output impedance, and other parameters. 
   
  I don't think Skylab was trying to generalize that balanced is better than single ended, only that in these amps, the SR-71B in balanced mode had the best result for him.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





minh3184 said:


> Skylab prefers the SR-71B in balanced mode over the other 2 amps even with single-ended source. Well I'm convinced =) time to pull the trigger!
> 
> Anybody here know when the Norse Audio website will be up and running?


 

 The amps will probably predictably run better in balanced mode than single ended, regardless of source.  The reason the feature is there is almost certainly that RSA optimized performance for balanced mode, but single-ended was added as a convenience/good feature for people with some cans that aren't cabled right. 
   
  Again, I'm not saying balanced is bad, and when I heard the 71B I definitely liked it.  I'm just adding a little engineering POV to the "balanced is better" notion....


----------



## obazavil

/me is taking notes


----------



## Minh3184

Quote: 





mrspeakers said:


> The amps will probably predictably run better in balanced mode than single ended, regardless of source.  The reason the feature is there is almost certainly that RSA optimized performance for balanced mode, but single-ended was added as a convenience/good feature for people with some cans that aren't cabled right.
> 
> Again, I'm not saying balanced is bad, and when I heard the 71B I definitely liked it.  I'm just adding a little engineering POV to the "balanced is better" notion....


 


  I read that the 71B doesn't sound as good single-ended compared to the 71A, but you're spot on about the single-ended being a convenience thing, well for me anyway. I don't have the money to buy everything yet either so my HD650s will do for now until I can afford a pair of balanced LCD2s =).


----------



## Girls Generation

Which comes back to the original point that balanced SR71B will sound better than the other two because of the balanced mode.


----------



## Br777

as i have mentioned, in my experience using the balanced out of the 71b was clearly a better sound.
   
  i should also mention that as far as balanced gear goes, i have neither experience, nor knowlege, or even understanding of what a balanced or semi balanced rig is.. i just went by sound quality comparison, and it didnt take more than 2 quick switches back and forth from single ended output to balanced output to declare a clear winner and never look back.
   
  even when i am using an ipod and lod.. in other words, nothing fancy being fed into the 71b.


----------



## mrspeakers

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Which comes back to the original point that balanced SR71B will sound better than the other two because of the balanced mode.


 
   
  No...  This specific amp sounds better IN balanced mode than these two amps, not BECAUSE it is balanced per-se.  It is absolutely wrong to conclude that an amp is better simply because it is balanced.  This topology does have it's own drawbacks, as any does, and a given design should be judged on the result, not a theory that "it is balanced therefore it is better."  It's like saying that "it is discrete so it is better" or "it has a brown nob and felt feet, so it is better."  
   
  RSA did a great job with this balanced amp, and at least per Skylab's nice review, it is better than the two amps he compared it to.  That's all you can conclude.  If that motivates you to get a balanced cable and buy the amp, that's a fine outcome...


----------



## Girls Generation

mrspeakers said:


> No...  This specific amp sounds better IN balanced mode than these two amps, not BECAUSE it is balanced per-se.  It is absolutely wrong to conclude that an amp is better simply because it is balanced.  This topology does have it's own drawbacks, as any does, and a given design should be judged on the result, not a theory that "it is balanced therefore it is better."  It's like saying that "it is discrete so it is better" or "it has a brown nob and felt feet, so it is better."
> 
> RSA did a great job with this balanced amp, and at least per Skylab's nice review, it is better than the two amps he compared it to.  That's all you can conclude.  If that motivates you to get a balanced cable and buy the amp, that's a fine outcome...




You're taking this the wrong way. If you read closely, what I'm saying is that the balanced mode sounds better, the mode being exclusive to the SR71B.... There's nothing to be arguing about here.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> You're taking this the wrong way. If you read closely, what I'm saying is that the balanced mode sounds better, the mode being exclusive to the SR71B.... There's nothing to be arguing about here.


 
   
  So balanced is inherently superior, regardless of amplifier? To you, or to everyone? What makes it objectively true, such that there's nothing to argue about?


----------



## Girls Generation

We're talking about the three portable amps that are at hand right now, which are, SR71B, Stepdance, and the L3. 

Are you people that bored that you need to argue about anything that pops up? Read my posts thoroughly first, and the posts that were made beforehand so you know what the situation is before trying to argue anything. Jesus Christ...


----------



## Minh3184

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> You're taking this the wrong way. If you read closely, what I'm saying is that the balanced mode sounds better, the mode being exclusive to the SR71B.... There's nothing to be arguing about here.


 

 I get it haha. Not saying balanced mode is better than single-ended per se, just that the SR71-B's performance in it's balanced mode is "better" than the other 2 amps right? According to GG and Skylab as far as I know. Nothing to argue about here guys =)


----------



## Girls Generation

Sort of.

I'm saying that if you run the SR71B in balanced mode, it will sound better than the sound of the other two amps, due to the use of that balanced mode. One can obviously assume I'm saying balanced mode beats all SE, but I'm saying this within the portable amp world, more specifically, the three amps that are being compared right now.


----------



## ianmedium

Must admit I always thought the main benefit to balanced cables was that they could run long lengths of cable without loss of sound quality. That does not really matter with portables though. Hopefully I shall find out for myself soon enough


----------



## grokit




----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Must admit I always thought the main benefit to balanced cables was that they could run long lengths of cable without loss of sound quality. That does not really matter with portables though. Hopefully I shall find out for myself soon enough


 

 Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised


----------



## vlach

Quote: 





br777 said:


> as i have mentioned, in my experience using the balanced out of the 71b was clearly a better sound.
> 
> i should also mention that as far as balanced gear goes, i have neither experience, nor knowlege, or even understanding of what a balanced or semi balanced rig is.. i just went by sound quality comparison, and it didnt take more than 2 quick switches back and forth from single ended output to balanced output to declare a clear winner and never look back.
> 
> _"even when i am using an ipod and lod.. in other words, nothing fancy being fed into the 71b"._


 

 Regarding your last sentence; an iPod and LOD would not benefit from the 71B because the signal is not balanced coming out of the iPod...


----------



## vlach

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> WHICH IS WHY my conclusion to the fully balanced input/output [trans]portable rig is this:
> 
> iPod - CLAS - RSA Portable Balanced DAC - RSA SR71B - LCD2
> 
> ...


 

 Seems like the ideal product would be a balanced CLAS which would eliminate one device...bet you that's what we'll see next from Cypher Labs


----------



## Girls Generation

vlach said:


> Seems like the ideal product would be a balanced CLAS which would eliminate one device...bet you that's what we'll see next from Cypher Labs




Possible, but I doubt it.




vlach said:


> Regarding your last sentence; an iPod and LOD would not benefit from the 71B because the signal is not balanced coming out of the iPod...




It doesn't matter because the SR71B is phase splitting to output a balanced signal; one does not require a balanced input with the SR71B.


----------



## rudi0504

Quote: 





googleli said:


> Dudes - I am looking for the ultimate bad arse portable combo for the LCD2, so I can use it in office and at the same time be able to carry it around in my luggage during my vacation and use the Energizer XP8000 to charge the devices.
> 
> I currently have the following portable stuff:
> 
> ...


 
  Daer Googleli
   
  I have almost the same set up like yours :
   
  I ranked like below:
   
  First 
   
  Iphone 4 G / Ipad 2 with file music WAV + Fostex Hp1 as DAC + Head Stage arrow 2 G + LCD 2 Rev 1 and Rev 2
   
  Second
   
  Iphone 4 G / Ipad 2 with WAV file music + Fostex Hp1 as DAC + RS 71 B in  Full Balance mode in  and out +LCD 2 rev 1 an d Rev 2
   
  Third
   
  Iphone 4 G / Ipad 2 with WAV file music + Fostex Hp 1 as DAC + Stepdance 1 + LCD 2 Rev 1 and Rev 2
   
  Cable : LCD 2 with Moon  Audio Silver Dragon  v3
   
              Female 1/4 " Jack to Balance  Whiplash Eclipse Twag 2 (as Adaptor for LCD 2  to RS 71 B ) 
   
              LOD to USB Whiplash Eclipse Twag 2 ( Iphone 4 To Fostex Hp 1 )
   
              Balance to Mini Whiplash Eclipse Twag 2 ( Fostex Hp 1 OUT to RS 71 B line IN ) 
   
              Mini to Mini Silver Cable Scsag ( Fostex Hp 1 OUT to Head Stage arrow / Stepdance 1 )
   
   
  These three are the best set up as Portable for my LCD 2 Rev 1 and Rev 2
   
  In term of sound quality and very good i mpact


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





vlach said:


> Regarding your last sentence; an iPod and LOD would not benefit from the 71B because the signal is not balanced coming out of the iPod...


 

 THe iPod/LOD won't benefit but the LCD-2 will.


----------



## vlach

Quote: 





grokit said:


> THe iPod/LOD won't benefit but the LCD-2 will.


 

  
  Sorry, i meant to say "headphones" won't benefit from a 71B fed from an iPod LOD, however i didn't know about the phase splitting feature as GG mentions...


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





vlach said:


> Seems like the ideal product would be a balanced CLAS which would eliminate one device...bet you that's what we'll see next from Cypher Labs


 

 That would be nice!  
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549750/cypher-labs-algorhythm-solo-discussion-and-impressions-thread/480#post_7779528  (See my last sentence at this post.)
   
  Mike


----------



## obazavil

Interesting... you liked Arrow more than balanced sr71b...
   
  Quote: 





rudi0504 said:


> Daer Googleli
> 
> I have almost the same set up like yours :
> 
> ...


----------



## vlach

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Interesting... you liked Arrow more than balanced sr71b...


 
   
  Indeed, i thought the SR71B was in a totally different league!


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





vlach said:


> Indeed, i thought the SR71B was in a totally different league!


 
   
  Good to know that Arrow can stand a good battle (and win for people like vlach) against balanced sr71b.
   
  I was thinking of getting arrow 4G someday for Edition 8. Good to know it can be used with LCD2 with very good results


----------



## Physther

I currently have an ALO Continental and it sounds REALLY good with the LCD-2.  My semi-portable home setup is macbook -> headstage USB DAC -> Continental.  I have it on the FS boards only because I miss my lows with the music that I listen to.  It does sounds great with vocals, classical, and jazz though.


----------



## irvin59

I've just got my LCD-2's. I'm using an iPad with Linn studio master recordings into a Fiio 7 Dac via camera adapter USB ( waiting for Dacport to arrive) and Alo continental amp. The sound is way better than I ever imagined I could get in a (semi) portable setup-just amazing. I much prefer the continental in this setup to the SR 71B in balanced mode (didn't think I would). The continental has much more power on tap and more authoritative sound.


----------



## Norman314

How does one hook an LCD2 into a portable amp? The LCD2s that I tried at a recent meet all had the big 1/4" plugs that are too big to plug directly into a portable amp. Is the stock LCD2 plug convertible to a thinner plug? Or do you have to get some sort of converter hardware, and if so, where do you buy it?


----------



## grokit

You get an aftermarket cable with a 3.5mm plug, or an adapter like Grado makes.


----------



## Norman314

Thanks


----------



## zilch0md

Hi grokit,
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I've heard great things about the LCD-2/71B combo. What about the iBasso PB1/PB2 balanced portables, did you get a chance to compare?


 
   
  You've probably found information elsewhere, by now, but when I last visited this thread, I was still using the Meier Stepdance -> LCD-2.  
   
  For several months now, I've been using the iBasso PB2 with LME49990 op-amps + HA5002 buffers, powered with the maximum permissible 16-Volts from an Energizer XP8000 lithium-ion battery pack connected via an XPAL WI16 inline voltage regulator cable.
   
  I'm using the PB2 balanced out to the LCD-2 rev.1 via Toxic Cables' Silver Poison.
   
  I'm really thrilled with the 16V powered, transportable, iBasso PB2.  The increase in power relative to the Meier Stepdance is obvious, and thanks to the upgraded op-amps, it sounds very neutral, transparent, and detailed, without color or warmth but not at all dry or thin.  The Silver Poison cables add just enough brightness to compensate the LCD-2's shelved highs and, compared to running single-ended with the stock ADZ-5 cables, they have unveiled the clarity across the entire spectrum.  But it's the added power of running the PB2 balanced out with a regulated 16V external battery pack (vs. the internal 12.6V battery pack), that has made the greatest difference vs. the single-ended Meier Stepdance - greater dynamic range and punch, tighter control of the bass, and perhaps a bit more bass extension, too.  
   
  Mike


----------



## swifttal

Since we've had a few more great portable amps come out I thought I'd give this a bump... Has anyone tried the LCD-2 with the Intruder, RX Mk3, or HiFi-M8?


----------



## zilch0md

Not me, but I'm now using a "transportable" amp with my LCD-2 rev.1 that delivers 5.1 Watts per channel into 50 Ohms...
 
The *TBI Audio Millenia MG3*, a 24V DC-powered speaker amp that's rated at 32 Watts per channel into 8 Ohms:
 

 

 
 
See this post for pictures of my new "travel rig":  http:http://www.head-fi.org/t/633511/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xvi/7060_20#post_9857369
 
Mike


----------



## badgerbimmer

Portaphile 627x!


----------



## swifttal

Thanks for the additional mentions... the TBI setup looks very tempting. Are you running an external battery pack with it or the AAs?
  
 Also have either of you listened to either the intruder (or sr-71b) or HiFi-M8?
  
 Thanks again


----------



## zilch0md

Hi swiftal,



swifttal said:


> Thanks for the additional mentions... the TBI setup looks very tempting. Are you running an external battery pack with it or the AAs?
> 
> Also have either of you listened to either the intruder (or sr-71b) or HiFi-M8?
> 
> Thanks again




I've not heard the SR71B or the HiFi-M8, but from what I've read about them, the M8 is more neutral - perhaps better for warm headphones.

I'm using a 3600 mAh 6-cell 25.2V LiPo battery to power the TBI Audio Millenia MG3

I've corrected the link I had provided earlier, but I'll just post the contents here:

-----

 
 

 
44.1/16 and 96/24 WAVs on multiple 64GB MicroSD > Sony PCM-M10 Line Out > 24VDC-powered TBI Audio Millenia MG3 (5.1 Watts into 50-Ohm) > TBI Impedance Match > Audeze LCD-2 rev.1
 
 

 
1)  Open the case
2)  Connect headphone cable to the LCD-2's mini-XLRs
3)  Connect the 24VDC LiPo battery and attach alarm/monitor
4)  Connect interconnect cable to Sony PCM-M10
5)  Turn on the TBI Audio Millenia MG3 and listen to music!  
 

 
HPRC 2400F case, with Touch shown for scale.
 
Mike


----------



## jjvvcckk

nice thread. but I still doubt if a portable amp can drive LCD-2 well


----------



## zilch0md

From first-hand experience, the Meier Stepdance and iBasso PB2 can each do a fine job with the LCD-2.

Mike


----------



## jjvvcckk

what about mk2? solo +mk2 is it drive well with LCD-2? if so, i d like to try one..


----------



## Rednuht

jjvvcckk said:


> nice thread. but I still doubt if a portable amp can drive LCD-2 well


 
 I've heard the LCD2 with M8 and I think that little amp can do quite a job, of course it might not drive the LCD2 to the best, but in case we are talking about portable, so I think that's Ok


----------



## Currawong

The RX-3 and M8 do surprisingly well with them.


----------



## MusiCol

The iBasso D10 with Hi Flight's "Top kit" of opamps and buffers drives the LCD-2 very well, and has a good DAC stage onboard. Battery life is a wopping 20 to 30hours too - even when driving the LCD-2!


----------



## MahthovenWang

iBasso P4 with Hifilght's topkit sounds absolutely stunning. I just tried it yesterday and the LCD 2 are recabled to th Moon Audio Dilver Dragon. The P4 is on high gain and the volume knob is around 12 o'clock


----------



## zeddun

I use a CEntrance HiFi-M8 with my LCD-2.2s and it sounds fantastic.  The amp at least to my ears seems to have a very neutral presentation with the LCD-2s so it doesn't detract or add from the silky midrange and great bass of the LCD-2s.


----------



## IGarrettS

That's the one I use and it works like a charm.


----------



## arkarkme

I used my LCD-2s with a Pico amp/dac combo at work and it sounded very good.  I'm sure there's always better, but this is super small and the charge lasted a very long time.


----------



## AN94Master

Is it sensible to buy the LCD 2 for my fiio x5 with a suitable amp?? If so, what amp should I buy?


----------



## jujuju

This is a great thread !! - I just wanted to add i use a Neco V3 portable amp  with a Walkman MP3 player (NWZ) and to my ears the sound is lovely !!


----------



## jujuju

I see Neco has a V4 amp out that has some serious power - i think for the cost this would be hard to beat...


----------



## jujuju

Is there anybody who has had experience of using an IBASSO PB2 with LCD 2's - apologies if this is mentioned elsewhere - I am just finding my way on Head Fi...I was wondering if the power of this amp drives them well???


----------



## Sound Eq

with new dac/amps is there a new king out for audeze lcd2ewv2


----------

