# Bottlehead Amplifier Discussion / Comparison Thread: Crack, SEX & Mainline



## Loquah

Without realising it I seem to have become a Bottlehead fan, groupie, slave-to-the-tube... call it what you will. So after much discussion on the Crack-specific thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl) I'm starting this thread for the discussion and comparison of all Bottlehead amps together.
  
 The aim of this thread is to allow comparison discussions and to help people decide on the amp that best meets their skill level, listening preferences, headphones, and budget (but we all know that last one can change quickly once you're hooked).
  
 I'm reserving the next few posts for the following:
  

Crack review (pre and post Speedball) - http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831525
SEX review (pre C4S - http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831527)
SEX C4S upgrade review - http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831531
Mainline review - http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831533
Mainline impressions with multiple headphones (by @rbc3): http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/1155#post_11553612
Mainline vs DNA Stratus comparison (by @bigfatpaulie): http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/1035#post_11363673
  
 Each review will also offer direct comparisons to the other current models in the Bottlehead range.
  
 If you want a really quick summary, I've placed one here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/315#post_10138096, but I recommend reading the full reviews to help you fully appreciate each amplifier for its own unique character and style.
  
*Update 26th April 2014:* I've just added a brief summary of upgrading the volume control on the Bottlehead S.E.X. - you can read about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/570#post_10490656
  
Reviewing Specifics All reviews / comparisons will be completed using:

Beyerdynamic T1 headphones only (I will comment on the pairing of the non-OTL amps with lower impedance cans, but direct comparisons will involve the T1 only to be fair and consistent)
PC audio delivered bit-perfect from Media Monkey via Chord SilverPlus USB to Audio-gd NFB-5.2 with a possible change to the Matrix X-Sabre soon. All comparisons will be completed with the same DAC meaning that I will go back and re-test with the X-Sabre if I upgrade. *Edit:* Upgraded to Matrix X-Sabre 20/10/13 - see product threads for notes on the impact of this change.
The same RCA cables between the DAC and amps - a set of high quality Stinger RCA cables that I favour due to their smooth, but detailed presentation
Standard, generic power cables (all reviews using 240V versions of the amplifiers)
Standard tubes as delivered with the kit (with a subsection in each review dedicated to tube rolling experiences)
  
Music Tracks 
Jazz:  *High Life* from _Jazz at the Pawnshop (192kHz / 24-bit)_
Rock:  *(Untitled)* from _VAST: Visual Audio Sensory Theatre (44.1kHz / 16-bit)_
Rock:  *Good Excuse* from _The John Butler Trio: Grand National (44.1kHz / 16-bit)_
Classical:_  _*Rimsky-Korsakov's The Snow Maiden - Dance of the Tumblers* performed by the Minnesota Orchestra from _HD Tracks Download Experience (96kHz / 24-bit)_
Electronic:  *Jaguar* by _A Hundred Birds (44.1kHz / 16-bit)_
Acoustic / vocal:_  _*Sierra *by_ Boz Scaggs (44.1kHz / 16-bit) _


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## Loquah

Bottlehead Crack [Review]
 

The following review refers to the Bottlehead Crack OTL amplifier kit built in its stock form using only the parts supplied by Bottlehead. There are various modifications possible, most involving either different / extra capacitors or different volume pots and attenuators, but the sage advice offered by many of the Bottlehead veterans on the Bottlehead forum is to build the kits in stock form before modifying. It's great advice because it gives you a baseline to work from if / when you decide to modify your kit.
 
The Crack costs around $300 depending on your local currency and shipping costs. You may also need to buy a few tools to build it (like a soldering iron / station and a test meter), but these are good to have once you start down the very addictive DIY path.
 
Build Building the Crack is a straightforward affair even if you're an electronics novice. I had soldering experience prior to this project, but no circuit design experience. Although not strictly necessary, I'd recommend learning how to solder effectively before starting (there are some great videos on YouTube including this one from Inner Fidelity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5rWCEux_BI).
 
Parts & Assembly  
The build process divides effectively into 3 phases beginning with assembly.
 
You'll receive a box from Bottlehead which contains every piece you need to build your Crack. This includes a bag of resistors, capacitors and similar components, 4 pieces of pre-cut wood to build the box, 2 tubes, an aluminium chassis plate, and some other components like the volume knob, tube sockets and the like.
 

Instructions are provided on a CD as a PDF so you can print them off or view them on a computer / tablet. The instructions are widely acknowledge for their outstanding clarity and detail and are likely the reason that so many newbies can successfully complete the Crack as their first ever DIY project. It's not a difficult build, but the instructions are just perfect!
 
  
Stage 1 of the build requires some simple mounting of components using just a pair of long-nose pliers and a phillips-head screwdriver. Some of the components like the power inlet and power switch just push into place using a simple snap-lock system.
 
At the end of this stage, you'll have a chassis plate that looks something like the image to the left.
 
It's worth adding at this stage, that if you want to do any custom painting or finishes that they should definitely be completed prior to this stage. You don't want to be trying to paint components once they're assembled, but I'll speak more about this in the SEX review below.
 
You may also choose to assemble the wood base at this stage too. I just used PVA / hobby glue to build mine and then I stained and varnished the timber.
 
The final stage of assembly is the numbering system. The instructions guide you through a simple numbering system where you allocate numbers to each terminal by writing on the back of the chassis plate using a permanent marker. The result is an almost fool-proof system that lets you literally just connect #1 to #7 (or whatever the instructions say).
 
Hook-Up & Soldering  
Stage 2 of the build is the hook-up and soldering process. These happen separately and simultaneously depending on the component. Sometimes the instructions tell you to connect a wire or component from A to B, but not to solder it yet. Other times, the instructions will say to connect and solder at the same time. This all depends on whether or not the terminals need to accept more than one connection (e.g. a wire and a capacitor lead) so be sure to follow the instructions carefully as it can be quite tricky to desolder some terminals.
 
An important note about soldering: make sure that each joint is well-soldered, clean (i.e. all excess wire trimmed off) and shiny before continuing on. It never ceases to amaze me the strange and profound effects that a poor solder joint can have on an entire circuit. Just because there's some solder on a terminal doesn't mean it's properly connected so take the time to double-check each joint before moving to the next stage. A good solder joint should be well covered in solder, but not dripping, and the solder should look shiny, not dull or cloudy. If in doubt you can always re-heat the joint until the existing solder flows again and add a little solder if necessary.
 
Testing  
The final build stage is testing and it involves 2 (or 3) steps.
 
The first step is impedance testing where you leave the amp disconnected from power and test for the resistance between various terminals. Once again the instructions here are very straightforward so just step through them methodically and everything should be fine. I'll explain what to do with anomalies in a moment.
 
The second step is voltage testing and it's perhaps the most daunting step because you're connecting the amplifier to live and potentially dangerous electricity. Please be sure to carefully read the safety precautions in the manual before you continue here.
 
Just like the impedance testing, the voltage tests are a simple terminal-by-terminal process only this time it's with the circuit active. It's very normal to receive readings here that are 10-15% higher / lower than the ones in the manual so that's no problem, but if you start seeing no reading where you should or if the readings are way higher than they should be there are a couple of things to do:

Test again to be sure (and check your test meter's earth connection)
Check the solder joints leading to and from that terminal
Jump onto the Bottlehead Forum Crack thread and ask the awesome community for some advice
  
Once the testing is complete you can either plug in your favourite headphones or move to stage 3 of testing which is simply plugging in some cheap headphones that you wouldn't mind sacrificing (they must be in working order to start with) in order to test that sound comes out as expected.
 
If your circuit passed all the tests there aren't likely to be problems, but I always feel better testing with a $30 pair of headphones than a $500-1000 pair of headphones.
 
Design The Crack is what's called an Output Transformerless (or OTL) amplifier meaning that it only uses tubes to driver the headphones. Other amplifiers use transformers to manage the current and voltage supplied to the headphones, but this brings higher cost (for good sound) and potentially some issues / design challenges. Being an OTL design makes the Crack both very affordable and very clean and smooth across all frequencies, but it does restrict its compatibility a little.
 
Headphone Compatibility  
OTL amplifiers generally have higher output impedances than other designs and that means they are best suited to high impedance headphones. The Crack's output impedance is around 120ohms which is really high compared to other designs that aim for as low as <1ohm. Don't be turned off by that though, it just highlights the Crack's specialty - high-impedance cans.
  
The Crack is specifically designed to drive headphones with high impedance (e.g. 300ohms and up). Don't bother trying to get the best performance out of your 32ohm headphones with the Crack - it just won't happen. Even my 120ohm FA-011 LEs sound flabby and loose with the Crack because of the impedance mis-match, but connect a set of Sennheiser HD6X0s, HD800s, or the various 250ohm and above Beyerdynamics and prepare to smile!
 
Tubes  

The Crack comes supplied with 2 tubes: a small 12AU7 tube (left image) which handles the input stage of the circuit and a larger 6080 tube (right image) that handles the power for the circuit. In my limited understanding, the 12AU7 does the work of amplifying the signal while the 6080 essentially passes on the amplified signal and manages the interactions between the amplifier and the headphones.
 
It's worth noting a couple of things about these tubes. Firstly, the 12AU7 is still in high demand and there are plenty of unused old ones floating around (known as new old stock or NOS) and there are also brand new ones being manufactured.
 
The 6080s on the other hand are no longer being manufactured, but there seem to still be plenty around and some of the variants available (e.g. 6AS7G and 5998) are both beautiful to behold and equally as beautiful to hear.
 
Sound While writing this review I've been listening to my Beyer T1s (600ohm) via the DAC and amp in the Audio-gd NFB-5.2. I thought this provided a nice baseline given that the DAC stage of the NFB-5.2 will be driving the signal to the Crack for the next part of the review.
 
The following comments are based on the Crack with the Speedball add-on, but I will provide a full description of the difference with / without the add-on on a later section so don't worry if you just want to start with the Crack and not the Speedball, you can read all about the differences further down.
 
Treble  

The treble from the Crack (stock tubes) is clean and detailed, but smooth. I don't feel like I lose any extension compared to the solid state NFB-5.2, but I seem to gain smoothness that makes the treble more enjoyable.
 
Tubes are known to introduce some slight distortion into the sound, but that distortion can actually be beneficial because it can smooth out the way we perceive the sound making it more musical and enjoyable.
  
In addition to the perceived smoothness, I also feel like the lower treble is a little more forward than with the NFB-5.2. The sound has some extra energy and life via the Crack, but without any harshness. The treble presentation is definitely more fun with the Crack, but still sounds accurate and true to life.
  
With the T1s being a headphone that can bite when fed poor quality treble I can definitely vouch for the Crack's treble being highly enjoyable and smooth.
 
Mids  
Right on cue as I began to review the mids, Boz Scaggs' Sierra came on from my playlist. Sierra has some great vocals, congas, acoustic and electric guitars to really show off the mids and the Crack excels.
 
Mid-range presentation is smooth and clean with plenty of texture. It errs on the side of warmth and is a little creamy, but that's part of its seductive nature. Guitars sound full and realistic, vocals sound smooth and intimate, and yet the congas off to the right of the stage in Sierra sound light and lively.
 
On other tracks this trend continues. The Crack tames any dryness or edge in the mid-range of various recording and consistently delivers a smooth, creamy sound without getting bogged down in muddy or foggy presentation. I would say that it's not the most transparent presentation I've heard, but it walks the line beautifully between warmth and clarity - not too warm and not too stark. The Crack's presentation is about enjoyment, not dissection of the music.
 
Bass  
The bass from the Crack is similar to the mid-range. It's solid and present, smooth and warm, but still with plenty of texture and detail.
 
The bass has a slight bloom to it that's not present from the solid state NFB-5.2 so it's possibly a touch slower than the actual recordings, but it doesn't muddy the bass so much as warm it up a little. Fast bass lines are still clean and defined and in some ways may be more true to a live / loudspeaker rendition where rooms create some bass reverb and resonance. Purists may feel like the Crack is colouring and / or slowing the bass down and technically that may be true, but to my ears it never once detracts from the listening experience and actually makes it a smooth and enjoyable ride.
 
Remembering that the output impedance of the Crack is 120ohm, the damping factor (ability to control the movement of the driver) between the Crack and the headphones will always be less than low output impedance amps so it's to be expected that the bass from the Crack will be a little fuller and warmer. Once again, it's not flabby or loose (so long as you're using high impedance cans), but full and a touch warmer than neutral.
 
Staging & Imaging  

OK, this is the bit that really "wow"s me with the Crack. Moving from the NFB-5.2 to the Crack is like moving from the room next door to the band to actually standing right in front of the band. The staging and imaging from the Crack is SO far ahead of the NFB-5.2.
 
The stage on the Crack is still intimate, but it's open and spacious. Using the T1s, the stage extends just beyond each ear, a little bit forward, and from around eye-brow height down to the tip of my earlobes (I have average length earlobes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). So it's not huge, but it feels spacious.
 
Each instrument and sound is clearly placed in the stage by the Crack. I never feel like the instruments are crowded or their locations are smudged. To be honest, I didn't expect this kind of clear imaging from a tube amplifier. I don't know why, but I thought they'd be a little muddy and vague with their staging, but I can assure you the Crack isn't. It's precise, spacious and coherent across all instruments and recordings that I've tried.
 
I often use *Good Excuse* by the John Butler Trio as a test track for imaging because a good system will define the vertical staging of the recording. Ideally you should hear John's voice higher in the stage than his guitar. The Crack definitely clarifies the stage vertically, but not as much as other amps I've heard (like the Bottlehead SEX - teaser alert!). In short I'd say the Crack provides excellent horizontal staging and imaging, a good sense of depth and better than average vertical layering.
 
Sound Summary  
To wrap it all up, the Crack's sound performance is way above it's pricetag. If you're looking for a smooth and enjoyable sound without sacrificing clarity, staging and detail, the Crack is a great choice (for high impedance cans). I'm yet to hear an amp <$1000 which I outright prefer to the Crack. I'm not suggesting for a second that there aren't amplifiers in that price range that do things better than the Crack, but there's not an amp I've heard that's made me think the Crack wasn't up to the task, especially given it's price.
 
Lately I've tested a few amps including the Matrix M-Stage, Aune S2 Panda Mk2, Woo Firefly, a Sherwood vintage receiver, and the Bottlehead SEX (I'm sure I've forgotten a couple too) and I can comfortably say that nothing in this mix made me question the Crack's value or performance. It's an added bonus that you get the satisfaction of building it, the opportunity to easily modify it and the option to customise its appearance.
 
Tube Rolling As I mentioned earlier, there are plenty of tube variants for the Crack's 2 tubes. I wrote a post about a number of 12AU7 variants over on the Crack thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/2490#post_9747346 and there's a great 6080 (and equivalents) tube review over on the Bottlehead forums: http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=3453.0
  
 For this review I wanted to highlight 2 pairings - a really affordable upgrade option and a top-notch upgrade option.
  
Affordable Rolling  
My first rolling experience involved a budget of no more than about $30 per tube. At the time I was using HD650s as my headphone of choice and settled on a great, affordable combination. My input tube of choice was the RCA 12AU7 Cleartop and my power tube of choice was the Mullard 6080WA.
 
The addition of the Cleartop 12AU7 (AUD$30) brought a noticeable improvement to treble clarity and extension. The higher frequencies were brought in line with the lower treble frequencies making the Crack a little sharper and cleaner sounding. With the stock 6080 tubes I find the Cleartop to be a little dry and edgy at times, but that's why it's paired here with the Mullard 6080WA.
 
I simply love the Mullard 6080WA - for the AUD$25 I spent on it, it's a steal! The 6080WA is a great complement for the Cleartop because it softens the overall presentation slightly, but not in a muddy way. It's like the 6080WA picks up the musicians and just moves them back a few feet. The result is a really detailed, but gentle presentation with slightly more space. I really love the stage and image created by the 6080WA and would highly recommend this combination to any HD650 owners.
 
At the same time that I bought this pair, I also grabbed a Mullard ECC82 (12AU7 equivalent) for AUD$30. I had to mention it here because it's my favourite tube despite getting little use. The reason I love it so much is that it creates an almost holographic stage and image - easily the best imaging 12AU7 variant that I've heard. The reason it doesn't get used much is because it's very smooth and my favourite power tubes are also smooth - too much of a good thing, you know?
 
Aspirational Rolling  

If you're looking for a real treat and you don't mind turning your budget DIY amp into a $600-700 kit, then I can highly recommend the GEC 6AS7G brown base tubes (there are straight and curved base versions - both are very similar with the curved base being slightly better).
 
I was fortunate to be able to buy a straight base version from Head-Fi user, W0lfdog (thanks again, W0lfdog!) and as you can see in the image to the right, I paired it with the RCA Cleartop 12AU7.
 
I've already explained what the Cleartop brings to the table so let's focus on the GEC 6AS7G. Imagine the ultimate combination of smoothness and detail and you'll be getting close.
 
The GEC presents the sound similarly to the Mullard 6080WA that I discussed above only it brings with it extra layers of detail and a bit more space and depth.
 
Because it is a warm sounding tube, I find I prefer it paired with a brighter input tube like the Cleartop or one of the stock 12AU7s as provided with the original kit. Paired with my beloved Mullard ECC82, the sound is great, but I always feel like I'm missing a little something in the treble. With the addition of the Cleartop, the brightness and slight edge of the Cleartop is a perfect foil for the smoothness of the GEC. Because both tubes are detailed in their own ways, the combination provides outstanding clarity, detail and precision, but absolutely never becomes dry or fatiguing. I know the cost of the tubes here can be nearly the same as the cost of the kit, but it really is a worthy expense.
 
Speedball Add-On 
The final topic for discussion here is the Speedball add-on.
 
The Speedball add-on influences the power management of the Crack by replacing a few resistors with a more "intelligent" power supply control. The image to the left here is the pre-Speedball Crack. Those 2 white bars near the bottom are replaced by the Speedball in addition to 2 other brown coloured resistors which are to the sides of the white bar resistors down near the bottom of the picture.
 
The Speedball is also a kit design so you build it before installing it. It's a little trickier than the Crack, but not difficult overall. Installation involves the removal of the resistors mentioned above and then the mounting and wiring of the Speedball boards using some plastic spacers to hold the Speedball away from the other circuitry.
 
To my ears, the results of the Speedball modification are kind of similar to finding the perfect combination of high-end tubes. The sound becomes more detailed and better controlled while maintaining the beautiful smoothness of the stock Crack sound. Although there are still benefits to be had by rolling tubes after installing the Speedball, the Speedball actually reduces the impact of the tubes.
 

I should explain that last point further. If the stock Crack with stock tubes is a 5/10 in terms of the total potential of the Crack, then adding the right tubes can take it to an 8-9/10. Adding the Speedball takes the stock Crack with stock tubes to 8/10. Adding the right tubes to the Crack + Speedball takes the Crack to 10/10.
 
  
For around $150 (again depending on local currency and shipping costs), the Speedball is a great, predictable upgrade. Where tubes can be faulty, wear out, or not sound how you want them to, the Speedball is 100% predictable - it will always make a stock Crack sound tighter, punchier and cleaner. It also upgrades the maximum performance of your Crack so you can reach the absolute potential of amazing tubes like the GEC brown base above.
 
Also it's probably worth noting that it can be fun (and even recommended) to build the Crack without the Speedball first in order to practice your soldering and confirm that the circuit is correct and working. You also get to hear the stock Crack before upgrading so you can hear the differences made by the Speedball.
 
I lived with my Crack for around a year before going to the Speedball and I can assure you that it's an outstanding amp even without the upgrade.
 
Closing Statements The Bottlehead Crack might just be the most fun you can have with $300, a pair of headphones and a soldering iron.
 

Having just built the Bottlehead SEX kit, I can confirm that the Crack is many times easier and therefore a more relaxing and fun process, especially for a beginner. That's not taking anything from the experience of building the SEX, but the Crack is just so straightforward that there's no stress in the process, just fun, learning, and satisfaction.
  
The results are far ahead of the price and it offers literally years of ongoing experimentation with the Speedball kit and various tube rolling options and that's not even mentioning some of the crazy modifications you can get into with capacitors and the like - just ask Franken-Crack (see image to the right and check this link) owner and Head-Fier, Amcananey!
 
Happy Cracking everyone and please feel free to comment and ask questions in this thread or the dedicated Crack thread.
 
DAC Upgrade Update - 27th October 2013 A recent upgrade to my DAC has brought some very interesting changes.
 
The new DAC is a Matrix X-Sabre based on the very detailed ES9018 Sabre DAC chip. The extra separation and clarity offered by this DAC (compared to the previous Audio-gd NFB-5.2) has brought the Crack (with Speedball) very close to the S.E.X. in terms of overall sound performance. It's so close now that I could actually be completely happy with either amp when driving the Beyerdynamic T1s. For lower impedance cans, the S.E.X. is still the only choice due to the Crack's high output impedance, but with high impedance Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser cans I would probably choose the Crack simply because it is cheaper and still excellent.
 
I think the key to this change is the signature of the DACs. The NFB-5.2 was slightly warmer than the X-Sabre. The X-Sabre is still musical, but a little closer to neutral than the NFB-5.2. The result is a cleaner sound from the Crack - still warm and rich, but not smoothed over at all. The S.E.X. can sound a little dry at times in comparison which makes the Crack a bit more seductive - it soothes the ears with detailed, mellow tunes while the S.E.X. presents oodles of details and clarity, but isn't always soothing.


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## Loquah

Bottlehead S.E.X. [Review] 
The following review refers to the Bottlehead S.E.X. kit amplifier which is the mid-level headphone amplifier in Bottlehead's range. The S.E.X. also happens to drive speakers which is a nice piece of flexibility, but I'll get to that later.
 
This review refers to the non-C4S modded version of the S.E.X. with a later post being dedicated to the C4S modification (a Bottlehead add-on kit similar to the Speedball for the Crack amp).
 
The S.E.X. is a step up in price from the Crack and sells for around $600 (incl. shipping) depending on your local currency and shipping costs. For the extra money it offers increased versatility over the Crack and maybe better sound, but I'll save those details for later
  
Build Before I discuss the build stages it's worth noting that the S.E.X. is an incrementally harder kit to build than the Crack. The same techniques are used, but there are many more connections, many more wires, some slightly tricky components, and various wiring options. This means you need to keep your wits about you and allow plenty of time. I built the S.E.X. with 2 friends and fellow Head-Fiers, Gikigill and Billymav (1 kit each), and we completed the assembly stage in around 3 hours. It then took us from 11am until 2am to complete the hook-up and soldering stage (including a long lunch and moderate length dinner). That's 15 hours in total, but realistically we were on the tools for about 12-13 hours.
 
All up, I'd recommend allowing 2 relaxed days worth of work to complete the hook-up and soldering of a S.E.X kit, plus a few hours for assembly and an hour or so for testing (assuming no issues arise).
  
Parts & Assembly  

The carton containing the S.E.X. kit is a heavy beast, and when you open it you quickly discover why. In addition to the aluminium chassis plate, the S.E.X. kit includes a power transformer, two output transformers, and two plate chokes that look a lot like the output transformers so be sure to note which is which (it's easy to tell by the fact that the plate chokes have wires already attached).
  
As per the Crack (and all Bottlehead kits as I understand it), instructions are provided on a CD so that you can print or view the manual electronically. Once again the instructions are exceptionally clear and well thought out.
  
Also just like the Crack, the first step for the S.E.X. is to assemble the components such as the chassis plate, terminal strips, RCA terminals, and tube sockets (plus a few other parts). This is just a simple case of following the instructions and wielding a screw driver and pair of long nose pliers from time-to-time.
 
Once all of the assembly is complete, you'll have something that looks a little like the image to the left except yours will be a silver / aluminium colour, not browny bronze like mine, but I'll get to that.
 

Now, when you see the image to the left, you might be thinking "Hang on, he said assembly only so far, but I can see wires!" and you'd be right. If you want to stay solder free in stage 1 you could just mount the power transformer only, but if you're happy to include about 5 minutes of simple soldering then you can pre-wire and install the output transformers and plate chokes.
 
At whichever stage you choose to install the chokes, etc. you need to make a decision. Unless you've ordered the optional impedance switching kit (not reviewed here), the wiring of the output transformers will directly influence what the amplifier is optimised to drive. You can wire the S.E.X. to drive a 4, 8, 16, or 32 ohm load and that basically means you choose to wire it to suit speakers and headphones (4 / 8 ohm) or for more dedicated headphone use (16 / 32 ohm). I chose 8ohm wiring because I'd like to be able to use it with some bookshelf speakers I have, but my main priority is headphones. If using the S.E.X. with particularly power hungry headphones you would probably want to wire for 32ohms or buy the impedance switching kit that allows you to change impedance by simply turning the amp off, lifting the chassis plate and throwing a switch or two (as opposed to rewiring the output transformers which is what I would have to do).
 
Once again similar to the Crack, the final step of assembly is attacking your chassis plate with a permanent marker to number each terminal for the upcoming hook-up stage. This numbering system is truly a godsend and helps both with wiring and trouble-shooting if needed. For example, when something's wrong with the tube heater power supply it allows one of the gurus from the Bottlehead forum to tell you to check the C-strip (the terminals numbered C1-C5) rather than trying to explain it component-by-component.
 
Custom Appearance  
When I built the Crack I was too excited to pause for any kind of custom painting or finish (except for staining the wooden base) so the S.E.X. gave me a chance to play.
 
If it's your first ever kit you may find summoning the patience difficult, but it can be very rewarding. I was fortunate that I had to wait while we found a date that worked for all 3 of us in the build group so I had idle time to play with the looks of my S.E.X.
 

I really wanted a vintage, art deco look for my S.E.X. so I ended up choosing an bronze colour anodised finish on the aluminium chassis plate (costing around $60) and I painted the visible metal parts on the plate chokes and transformer bell using simple, cheap spray paints from the local hardware store. All up, the customisation cost around $80-90 and a whole lot of patience and prep-work.
 
If you're painting the metal parts you really need to do the prep well as many of the parts will have resin on them as part of the manufacturing process. The resin doesn't play nicely with primer or paint so take the time to remove it thoroughly first time or you'll have to do what I did and strip back your first attempts (yes, that's multiple attempts - it took me more than one go to get this right) to start again from scratch.
 
In addition to anodising the chassis plate, other options are to polish the plate or paint it. It all depends on the type of look you're after so don't be afraid to get creative and you can check out the Gallery thread over on the Bottlehead forums for plenty of inspiration.
 
One final tip: if you choose to paint or anodise the base you'll need to make sure you connect the earth terminal to bare metal by sanding or filing the metal around the screw hole for the earth terminal.
  
Hook-Up & Soldering  

There's not a lot to say here that I haven't already covered in the Crack review above. As already mentioned, the S.E.X. kit has more components and more wires so it is a trickier process than the Crack, but the techniques and steps are essentially the same.
 
One thing I will mention is that working with the Schottky rectifiers on the power supply is quite tricky because space is limited and the rectifiers have very thick leads which don't easily bend. The only real tip I have for this section is plenty of patience. There are 4 rectifiers to install and not a lot of space so it can get mighty frustrating and a break and a few deep breaths may well come in handy
 
That said, now is probably a good time to include some general tips which apply to both the Crack and the S.E.X., but which became increasingly important in the more complex S.E.X. kit where space is at a premium and your concentration may fade as the hours go by.
  
Top Building Tips  

*Check and double-check the orientation of all components* that have specified directions / alignments. This includes the tube sockets, power switch, diodes, and capacitors. One error here can completely ruin your day and may destroy the component in the case of capacitors. Not only that, but de-soldering is a real pain in the proverbial, especially in cramped spaces with lots of components.
  
*Measure wire lengths* based on the path they will travel. We found a few times that the lengths specified in the manual were a little too generous or a little tight. This might be because we were working with the metric measurements (mm not inches) and a few of these had minor errors. My approach next time will be to check the origin and destination of each wire and trace its path (around obstacles and components) to get a tidier and easier solution.
  
*Read the instructions carefully*. All of the information and guidance is there, but it can be easy to miss a key detail so always read each instruction again before finalising your work.
  
I'm not going to discuss the testing stage here so please refer to the Crack review for details about testing.
  
Design  

The S.E.X. is a single ended triode design which essentially uses one triode tube per channel in combination with an output transformer. SET designs are simple (i.e. not lots of components in the signal path) and clean, but not particularly efficient in the scheme of things. For our purposes though (driving headphones and sensitive speakers) they appear to be a good choice and knowing the amount of testing and planning conducted by the crew at Bottelehead, the SET design has no doubt been chosen for its combination of performance and affordability (with neither being compromised, just maximised).
  
Compatibility  
By including an output transformer in the S.E.X., Bottlehead have given us an amp that can drive all range of headphones (including lower impedance models) as well as speakers. That's a pretty versatile offering and although I won't be using my S.E.X. for speakers, I love that it can drive them and a brief test proved that it drove my bookshelf speakers admirably (but not set up properly or for long enough that I'm able to effectively review the sound).
 
The S.E.X. comfortably drives headphones of all different impedances although I'd recommend drawing the line before you get to the sensitivity and impedance of IEMs. I tried my GR07 MkIIs and found the hum to be pretty bad (amp wired for 8ohms) so to me this is a headphone and speaker amp, not an IEM, headphone and speaker amp.
 
As for using it with various headphones, I've tried 600 ohm Beyerdynamic T1s, 120 ohm Fischer Audio FA-011 LEs, 75 ohm Ultrasone HFI-680s and some old, cheap 32 ohm AKG K-66s. In all cases, the S.E.X. drove the headphones comfortably and well, but I'll get to the sound in a few moments.
 
  
Tubes  
The S.E.X. utilises the very utilitarian 6DN7 tube which is apparently an old TV tube and no longer made, but still fairly readily available as new old stock (NOS) it seems.
 
 

From everything I've read, there is no benefit to be had with tube rolling on the S.E.X. because all 6DN7s are essentially the same. I'm yet to test this myself, but the overwhelmingly consistent opinions on this topic make my wallet feel a lot more secure than the Crack with it's never-ending range of new, used and ultra-rare tube options.
 
Back to the 6DN7 tubes... There are some variants floating around where the base is much thinner. These are referred to as coin-base tubes and may look preferable depending on your tastes, but are apparently no different in sound.
  
Sound So here we are at the part that really matters. I'll start by talking about the S.E.X.'s sound in general terms before comparing it directly with the Crack.
  
 Remember that the following comments are based on the S.E.X. in 100% stock form and without the C4S add-on.
  
 Before I get into the separate aspects of the sound, I wanted to mention that there is a faintly audible hum when you turn on the S.E.X. with any headphones connected. The hum isn't really an issue once the music starts, but I thought it was worth mentioning the hum.
  
 The Bottlehead site states that wiring the S.E.X. in its 32 ohm configuration produces a particularly low noise floor so perhaps the hum I'm experiencing is a result of the 8 ohm configuration. I've PM'ed Doc about this and will update once I have confirmation. I might also re-wire to 32 ohms if that's the case.
  
One other aside before I break down the sound: when I first went to test the S.E.X. I plugged in my RWAK100 as a source and my old, cheap AKG K-66s as a test headphone. The K-66s were never a particularly inspiring listen (hence why they're my sacrificial test headphone), but I was absolutely gob-smacked when I heard them from the S.E.X. I have literally never heard such an amazing transformation caused by an amplifier. 
 
Now, I'm not suggesting that the S.E.X. will magically transform your crappiest headphones into world-beaters. What the K-66 experience showed me was that the S.E.X. has a great presentation which will lift many headphones to a higher level than other similar-priced amps, and that it synergises really well with the K-66s for some unknown reason. My other headphones still sound clearly better, but where the gap from the NFB-5.2 is exponential between the K-66 and other headphones, the gap becomes much narrower with the S.E.X.
  
Treble  
The treble from the S.E.X. is crisp and clean with nice bite. Through the T1s (which can be aggressive with the wrong treble signal), the S.E.X. presents outstanding detail and clarity in the upper registers, but without any fatiguing edge. Where the Crack seemed to offer a slight bump to the lower treble, the S.E.X. seems to be more balanced across the whole treble range. At first I felt it might have had a slight bump to the upper treble, but I think that might be more that I'm used to a little roll-off from the Crack.
 
The S.E.X. presents some really nice sparkle with the treble. Across a variety of tracks and with all different headphones, the treble presentation is consistently excellent. Somehow the S.E.X. manages to present the treble clarity of a solid state amp combined with the smoothness of a tube amp - very impressive. Cymbals and percussion have really nice energy with the S.E.X., but it's not overdone or in-your-face.
 
Mids  

The mids from the S.E.X. are very similar to the treble - crisp and clean. There's a transparency from the S.E.X. that pairs beautifully with the T1s and I'd love to hear what it can do for headphones like the HD650 which are great, but can sound a little opaque at times.
  
Turning to *Sierra* by Boz Scaggs, the S.E.X. produces lovely, warm, liquid mids for the vocals and guitars. The presentation is clean and clear with no sense of slowness or blur. Boz's voice has texture and air while still being smooth and lush. Once again I'd describe the presentation of the S.E.X. as akin to the clarity of a solid state amp, but with the smoothness of a tube amp.
 
One thing I really like about the mid-range from the S.E.X. is the texture it grants to the instruments. I've been flat-out stopped in my tracks a few times while listening to music as I work. I listen to music via headphones for around 4-5 hours per day while I work so I'm used to hearing the detail and clarity that headphones can provide. Having used the T1s with the Crack for some time now, I thought I was hearing everything in my music, but the S.E.X. proves me wrong almost daily, not by showing me any extra details as such, but by revealing the subtle character of those details.
 
For example, the other day my music was playing on shuffle when a was stopped dead by a piano chord in a track I know really well, but I can't remember the name of as I write this. What stopped me wasn't the detail in the rendition, but the sense of realism conveyed by the texture and resonance I could hear in the piano. As a piano player myself, I find it rare to hear a system truly recreate the proper acoustic sound of a piano with all of its richness and subtlety. What I find amazing about the S.E.X. (especially as a $600 amp) is that it does this really well. I guess it comes back to the transparency I mentioned earlier - if it's in the recording and you have headphones to do it justice, the S.E.X. will let you hear it by simply amplifying the signal and getting out of the way.
  
Bass  
 If there's one weak spot for the S.E.X. it might be the bass, but not because it does anything wrong per se, just because it is very transparent and therefore may not give some people the "oomph" they're looking for.
  
 I personally like the S.E.X.'s bass presentation because it's clean, tight, quick and punchy, but there's no denying that it doesn't have the body of the Crack (full comparison shortly). If I'm honest, I think that the S.E.X. is probably the more accurate representation of the recording, but some people might want a little more if they're looking for a warm, smooth, tubey sound.
  
 On the plus side, the S.E.X.'s well-controlled and accurate bass is a great foundation for it's brilliant mid-range and treble presentation because there's no bleed between the bass and mids. The bass hits and rumbles when it needs to, but it never blurs the edges of other frequencies. For that reason, it's great with headphones that have a good bass presentation to begin with, but may not pair so well with headphones that people traditionally might use tube-warmth to "fix".
  
Staging & Imaging  

 Good golly does this thing image well!
  
I mentioned the K-66 experience at the beginning of the "Sound" section. It was staging and imaging that I heard with the K-66s that told me I was in for a treat. The S.E.X. presents a soundstage that is both wide and deep. With the T1s the soundstage from the S.E.X. extends beyond each ear by about an inch or two. It also has good forward depth, but I think the key difference I'm noticing is that it extends out diagonally better than anything else I've heard so far with the T1s.
  
What I mean by that is that the soundstage from the S.E.X. is more semi-circular than triangular. To the left and right of the centre there is equivalent depth to the centre and sides. Other amps I've tried, specifically the NFB-5.2 and Crack as my references from this review, seem to compress the stage at the 45o mark to each side before expanding again at the sides and centre so the result is a kind of triangular stage. The S.E.X. doesn't do this and it makes the stage feel massive and spacious even though it probably doesn't extend much further (if any) in the centre and to each side when compared to the Crack.
 
Sometimes a large stage can feel too big and the results seems somehow incoherent or unrealistic, but I don't find that at all with the S.E.X. Everything is perfectly placed with space around each sound, but without separating one instrument from the next. As you'll read in the comparison to the Crack. It does everything the Crack does well and a little bit more when it comes to staging and imaging.
 
Turning to *Good Excuse* as I did in the Crack review, the checked the S.E.X.'s ability to layer the stage vertically and was pleased to find that it manages the vertical equally as well as the horizontal. John's voice was clearly slightly higher than the cymbals behind him and higher still than the sound of his guitar. Bravo Bottlehead!
 
While completing this review I got a bit tired of the same songs over and over that I'd selected for these reviews so I switched to a different playlist. One of the tracks that followed was *Clint Eastwood* by Gorillaz. In the background of the track is a old piano that sounds like it's recorded from an adjacent room (not to be confused with the main synth which is piano-like, but not a piano). Listening on the S.E.X. actually made me double-check that the distant sounding piano wasn't a mobile phone ringing in the next room - it was eerily lifelike. 
 
Sound Summary  
To summarise the sound from the S.E.X. I'd have to say things like clean, transparent, accurate and detailed. It's definitely a smooth listen, but not at all warm like you might expect from a tube amp. It's not sterile, analytical or dry, but it also doesn't gloss over everything with a rose-coloured hue. It just finds a really nice balance that has instantly placed it as my favourite amplifier of all time (so far).
  
Comparison to the Crack  

I'm basing this comparison on the stock Crack + Speedball with stock tubes. I will also briefly compare the Crack with the GEC 6AS7G brown base, but want to start with the 2 kits in essentially their baseline states.
  
Moving between amps, both using the same DAC, RCA cables and headphones (Beyerdynamic T1), the difference is stark, but not in the way you might expect. The S.E.X. doesn't wipe the floor with the Crack, they just kind of shake hands and walk comfortably in different directions.
 
Where the S.E.X. is clean, transparent and open, the Crack is warm, smooth and intimate. Both are enviably good so my aim here is more to help you choose which you might prefer.
 
Signatures  
The Crack's signature is undoubtedly warm. The bass is more present, the mids are lush and creamy, and the treble is ever-so-slightly rolled off to a smooth, but detailed finish.
 
Returning to the S.E.X. I find a cooler presentation, but not cold. Both amps are probably on the warm side of neutral, but the S.E.X. is almost right on the line whereas the Crack is 2 steps into warm territory. Bass is reduced on the S.E.X., but still present. The nearest analogy I can think of for the bass is the HiFiMan "RE" range of earphones. I've owned the RE-0 and RE-272 earphones, both of which are beautifully transparent, but often left me wanting a little more in the bottom registers. Anyone who's heard these earphones probably knows what I mean and might be getting worried about where I'm going with this, but don't worry!! My point in raising the RE earphones is to clarify that the S.E.X. *does not* go as far away from the bass as something like the REs. Is it leaner than the Crack? Yes, without a doubt. Would I describe it as lean or analytical? No, not at all. Accurate, clean and quick, but not lean or analytical.
 
To use a really inaccurate, but illustrative method of description, I would describe the Crack's signature as sounding like a diagonal frequency response starting above neutral in the bass, staying much the same through the mids and trending downwards in the treble. The S.E.X. on the other hand starts basically neutral and continues flat across the board - end-to-end flatness. For some that will be desirable. For others, it may be a detractor.
 
Staging & Imaging  

Once again, the two amps are different here, not better or worse.
 
The S.E.X. presents that beautiful, open and spacious stage I've described above while the Crack is much more intimate. Despite the Crack's intimacy, it doesn't feel crowded or congested, just intimate. I know many people who like one or the other so this is once again a question of taste.
 
Jumping back and forth, there is no way to choose a winner based on staging because it's a preferential choice. Imaging though is a little different. There is absolutely no doubt that the imaging from the S.E.X. is a step ahead of the Crack. It's not miles ahead, but definitely a good step ahead. Where the Crack has accurate imaging, the S.E.X. has crystal clear and almost holographic imaging. This might be in part due to the extra space available in the S.E.X.'s soundstage. 
 
Resolution and Detail  
I'm jumping back and forth between the two amplifiers as I write this and although I hadn't originally planned to include this heading it became abundantly obvious that it is necessary.
 
The reason this is so important is the difference in resolution and detail retrieved by each amp. The Crack is very good with detail and clarity, but the S.E.X. is on a whole other level. There are sounds I hear from the S.E.X. that I can't hear from the Crack even once I know they're there. I think this is in part due to the extra treble extension from the S.E.X., but it may also be a difference in the coupling of the headphones with the output tube versus an output transformer - I'll leave it to more qualified minds to answer that question though.
 
Reality Check  
I'm calling this a reality check for 2 reasons. Firstly because I wanted to confirm if I can match the S.E.X.'s level of performance just by rolling tubes in the Crack and, secondly, because the tubes involved bring the total cost of the Crack to the same level as the S.E.X.
 

I began by installing just the Cleartop 12AU7 in the Crack to see what the affordable little marvel could do...
 
The sound was clearly better defined once the Cleartop was in the circuit, but was it as good? Nearly... very nearly. The Crack still didn't quite have the top-end extension of the S.E.X., but it was near enough that you might not miss it if you weren't directly A/B-ing the two amps. The Cleartop didn't bridge the gap in terms of imaging and the detail level was still a fraction behind the S.E.X., but it was definitely closer.
 
Next step was to pull out the big guns with the GEC 6AS7G and the results were actually very interesting. The GEC refined the Crack's sound a bit, but I don't feel like it pulled it any closer to the S.E.X. in the areas that it falls behind. What it did do though was take the Crack's mid-range to a new level and perhaps a level not achieved by the S.E.X. in terms of creamy, liquid goodness. I guess what I'm describing here is that it made the Crack better at everything it's already good at without really changing the overall presentation.
 
Simplified Comparison  
We all have different tastes and preferences so here's a summary of where each amp excels (remembering that this comparison was completed with the Speedball installed on the Crack. I'm only including factors where there is a clear difference. If something's not there it probably means they're about the same, but feel free to post any specific comparison questions in the rest of this thread.

Bass quantity / body - Crack
Bass speed / refinement - S.E.X.
Lush mids - Crack (esp. with GEC tube)
Treble extension - S.E.X.
Detail retrieval - S.E.X.
Intimacy - Crack
Stage size - S.E.X.
Imaging clarity - S.E.X.
  
Closing Statements  

It feels like there's a lot to summarise here so hopefully this crystalises it effectively. In my mind the S.E.X. clearly deserves to cost more than the Crack. Not taking into account the fact that the cost of materials is undoubtedly higher, the sound from the S.E.X. is more refined, more detailed and just plain impressive.
 
I still love the sound from the Crack and if I was told tomorrow that it was the only amp I could use for the rest of my life, I'd be completely OK with that. Since building the S.E.X., though, the Crack has had close to zero airtime because the S.E.X. is just too good.
 
I love the subtleties in music. I love to hear the little textures that the musicians and producers chose to include, but that we often don't hear during day-to-day listening. These subtleties help me to continue rediscovering my music collection and the S.E.X. shares new subtleties with me daily.
 
The Crack is an incredibly enjoyable amplifier and flat-out unbeatable for the price (when driving high impedance cans), but the S.E.X. is on another level overall.
 
If I had to recommend just one amp, I'd ask if you want warm, musical sound (Crack) or smooth, detailed sound (S.E.X.). Ideally though I'd suggest that you try both - start with the Crack as a practice run for the S.E.X.
 
Even if you don't spend a further $200+ on tubes, the Crack is an exceptional buy and one that still holds it's weight against its twice-the-price big brother.
 
Of course, if you want to drive speakers and headphones or if your headphone collection consists of <300ohm cans like HE-500s, AKG Q / K series headphones, or Audeze LCDs then go straight for the S.E.X. and love every second of it!
 
DAC Upgrade Update - 27th October 2013 A recent upgrade to my DAC has brought some very interesting changes.
 
The new DAC is a Matrix X-Sabre based on the very detailed ES9018 Sabre DAC chip. The extra separation and clarity offered by this DAC (compared to the previous Audio-gd NFB-5.2) has brought the Crack (with Speedball) very close to the S.E.X. in terms of overall sound performance. It's so close now that I could actually be completely happy with either amp when driving the Beyerdynamic T1s. For lower impedance cans, the S.E.X. is still the only choice due to the Crack's high output impedance, but with high impedance Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser cans I would probably choose the Crack simply because it is cheaper and still excellent.
 
I think the key to this change is the signature of the DACs. The NFB-5.2 was slightly warmer than the X-Sabre. The X-Sabre is still musical, but a little closer to neutral than the NFB-5.2. The result is a cleaner sound from the Crack - still warm and rich, but not smoothed over at all. The S.E.X. can sound a little dry at times in comparison which makes the Crack a bit more seductive - it soothes the ears with detailed, mellow tunes while the S.E.X. presents oodles of details and clarity, but isn't always soothing.
 
Attenuator & Capacitor Upgrade - May 2014  
During May 2014 I began to modify my S.E.X. and Mainline amps beginning with the volume pot in the S.E.X. which I replaced with a stepped attenuator, assembled using high quality Dale Vishay resistors. I chose this particular attenuator because the Dale resistors are known to be very transparent and are actually the same as those used in the Mainline kit. By all accounts, you can achieve similar results with other options - the key is transparency.
 
Attenuator Installation  
The first thing to note if you are changing your attenuator (or potentiometer) is that you might need to carve out a bit of extra space from the locking channel where the pin / tab of the attenuator sits into the chassis plate in order to prevent it spinning. Thankfully, the aluminium chassis plate is easy to work with using either a hand-file or a dremel. You can see in the image to the right that I lengthened and slightly enlarged the stock groove in the chassis plate. This isn't visible from the top once the volume knob is in place so don't stress if it's not the tidiest job ever (so long as you don't overshoot the width of the volume knob, but that would take some extreme carelessness).
 
Once the hole is ready, mounting the new attenuator is as easy as the stock one. Remove the supplied nut and washer(s), insert the spline through the hole, align the locking tab / pin and tighten the nut from the top side of the chassis. That's it for mounting - simple! The next step is wiring and that can change depending on the model of attenuator you choose so please refer to the provided instructions for your attenuator of choice and the instructions from the S.E.X. kit. If you get stuck, the wonderful people on the Bottlehead Forum can also usually help.
 
Do be aware at this point though that you may find the stock volume knob sits a little higher than it used to. It's not a major drama, but for the aesthetically inclined, you might need to modify the stock knob or track down a different one if you want the knob sitting flush against the chassis.
 
Attenuator Sound Improvements  
You're not going to make a change like this unless there's a payoff so let's discuss what happens when you change the attenuator. The exact changes may vary depending the brand / model used, but if you go for something known for transparency (like I did) then you'll get a nice increase in the detail and clarity of your S.E.X. The signature of the amp doesn't change significantly other than perhaps a slight bit more brightness, but it's subtle enough that I'd say to expect no real change in signature and just an increase in detail retrieval and texturing of sounds.
 
As an upgrade, I would say it is absolutely worth it. Including the time taken to modify the hole in the chassis I would say this is a 1-2 hour project and delivers a sound upgrade second only to the C4S mod. You can complete this mod on a budget of about $50 USD, but can also spend a bit more for more exotic attenuators if you want to.
 
Capacitor Upgrades  
Next on my list was a double-barrelled capacitor upgrade. I approached the upgrade in 2 stages at the excellent advice of either @JamieMcC or @mcandmar - I apologise for not remembering which one gave that specific advice, but they both deserve kudos for their input and support over the course of multiple mod discussions around capacitors and the like. The reason for the 2-stage approach was to isolate the impact of each pair of capacitors, but the problem was that the sound was still limited by other caps in the system so I am going to summarise the whole upgrade in one hit because I can't truly describe the full potential of the FT-3 teflons I installed first without having upgraded the other (output) caps which then brought their own influence to the sound. Hopefully that makes sense...
 
  
I started off installing some FT-3 0.1uF teflon capacitors (the same as the ones used in the Mainline upgrade below) and immediately noticed improvements even though they require significant burn-in. These caps replaced the pillow-shaped brown / orange capacitors that sit over the tube sockets. Early improvements I noticed were cleaner, clearer textures in the sound and better layering of instruments in the soundstage (i.e. different instruments were now more clearly defined 'in space' within the soundstage). As I said above though, the full impact of the teflon caps couldn't reveal itself because they were hidden behind the stock output caps (which are good, but able to be improved).
  
Stage 2 was the installation of output capacitors - the ones that connect the sound to your ears (kind of). I chose the Mundorf Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil caps for this purpose after doing a lot of reading about this particular model's excellent warmth and midrange. I decided that the Mainline should stay as neutral as possible while the S.E.X. would become my fun, organic, musical amp. Don't get me wrong though - this doesn't mean I was trying to turn the S.E.X. into some kind of thick, syrupy mid-monster. I wanted musical, enjoyable sound that was still nimble, agile, liquid and accurate. The good news is that the mods were a resounding success.
 
With the Mundorfs installed, the S.E.X. instantly took another small step in a very positive direction. All of the sound was warmer and fuller, but not at all heavy or thick. Music is still well-paced and lively, but with a little more note weight (not quite as good as the Mainline in this regard, but closer) and more present mids.
 
The staging from the S.E.X. is still excellent, but the Mundorfs added to what I was already hearing from the FT-3 teflons by helping to deliver greater fine detail and textural cues.
 
No doubt there are even more (subtle) changes that took place as a result of my upgrades, but the inability to truly A/B makes a direct and detailed comparison impossible. What I can tell you by way of a summary is that the S.E.X. post-upgrade does everything good that I wrote about above only now slightly better and with a dash more soul and warmth. I imagine you could get similar improvements with different cap combinations too and encourage you to give it a go. Changing these 2 caps on the S.E.X. is a relatively easy process and it's fun to hear what results.


----------



## Loquah

Bottlehead S.E.X. C4S Upgrade  
What is a C4S?  
 My understanding of the electronics theory is a bit limited so perhaps one of the more technically qualified members can add some extra detail, but, in layman's terms, the C4S is a circuit which applies extra load (impedance) to the tubes. The extra load helps the tubes to operate in a more stable range and also helps to prevent the influence of external noise sources.
  
 The predicted result of the C4S upgrade is better resolution, quieter background and tighter bass.
  
Is it Hard to Build?  
No. This is the easiest Bottlehead kit I've built so far. You do have to work on a circuit board, but it is with simple components and with nothing that poses major risk of damage or failure. You can see in the image that it has very few parts and the one part that can cause trouble (the 4 tiny LEDs) are safely hidden on the other side of the circuit board when you're doing the soldering of their leads.
 
This kit is so simple that I was able to successfully build it in front of the TV in about 30-40 minutes. I still checked and double-checked everything to ensure no errors (and recommend others to do the same), but it's just too easy and cheap to not do this upgrade!
 
The Sound  
It's all well and good for me to sit here and say you should do this upgrade, but there's no point if it doesn't significantly improve the sound so let's chat about that...
 
If you've read my previous reviews and comparisons of the Crack and the S.E.X. you'll know that I prefer the S.E.X. over the Crack by just a small margin. The area that the Crack (with Speedball) held my attention was in the bass department. The Crack consistently delivers more impact and body in the bass compared to the standard S.E.X.
 
On one hand I was hoping that the Crack would still win the bass battle after the C4S upgrade to the S.E.X. because I don't want to make it a redundant item in my collection. On the other hand, the S.E.X. garners the majority of my listening time and therefore would be great if it could be the clear winner in every category.
 
Let's start with the Bass  

As the one area that I felt the S.E.X. was a little lacking (only by a hair) I am pleased to say that the C4S completely rectifies my concerns. The bass on the S.E.X. is now sweet, solid and DEEP. To my ears, the S.E.X.'s ability to produce sub bass frequencies has significantly improved. The bass is tight and clean, but deep and powerful in a way I feel was missing before.
 
Everything Else  
I know I normally break down the individual details (mids, highs, staging, etc.), but I'll just be saying the same thing over-and-over. Simply put, the C4S does everything that Bottlehead promise. The sound is cleaner and noticeably more resolved. To my ears it also seems smoother - more relaxing, but without losing any of the detail and transparency that I loved about the stock S.E.X.
 
As a result of these improvements there is now a better presentation of the micro details and texture in recordings, I am rediscovering my music *yet again*! In addition to the greater detail retrieval, the stage is now better defined, but probably no larger (it was already great so this is completely fine). Instruments jump out of recordings because they are so beautifully defined, but the music stays wonderfully coherent and together as a whole even when you can pick out each individual piece.
 
In short, my Beyerdynamic T1s have never sounded so good. I was up very late last night because I always wanted "just one more track".
 
S.E.X. + C4S vs Crack + Speedball  

I'm sorry to say this, Crack addicts, but S.E.X. is better than Crack. It's a no contest.
  
The Crack is still an outstanding amplifier that punches massively above it's weight (or price), especially with the Speedball installed, but the S.E.X. is just on another level once the C4S is attached.
 
What the Crack does differently to the S.E.X. is a warmer, fuller mid-bass which can make the music a bit more mellow and smooth overall (similar to how the HD650s are very enjoyable for their warm, mid-bass and midrange presentation). The bass from the S.E.X. is leaner in the mid-bass area, but natural and solid. Where it excels, as I've already mentioned, is the sub-bass region. While the Crack may have this same sub-bass, it's harder to notice behind the mid-bass. The S.E.X. keeps everything so beautifully balanced that every single sound and frequency is right there for you to feel, hear and experience to the fullest.
 
Could I be happy with just a Crack + Speedball having heard the S.E.X. + C4S? Yes, Crack+ is still SO good that it can be an end-game for many people (so long as you have >300ohm cans). The S.E.X. is for those who want the versatility to drive lower impedance cans and / or speakers, and for those who want to take another step towards audio nirvana - I'm getting close now - I think I can see it from here!


----------



## Loquah

Bottlehead Mainline [Review]
  
The following review refers to the Bottlehead Mainline kit amplifier which is the top of the line headphone amplifier in Bottlehead's range. Unlike other products in the Bottlehead range, the Mainline doesn't have any "standard" upgrade options like the Crack's Speedball or the S.E.X.'s C4S kit so the review that follows is both the stock Mainline kit, but also the peak version of the Mainline without getting into aftermarket, non-standard modifications.
 
 
The Mainline kit costs USD $1199 before shipping and represents a significant price jump over the S.E.X. and Mainline kits. This review will help you decide if it's worth the extra clams...
 
I've tried to format the images in this post to be as unobtrusive in the layout as possible, but I wanted to include plenty of images as there aren't many out there to show all the "ins-and-outs" of the Mainline. Depending on the browser, window size and other factors, I seem to get different results so I hope the following review formats nicely on whichever device you're using and I apologise if the images cut up the text too much - please drop me a line if it makes it too hard to read and I'll see what can be done.
  

Build As with all Bottlehead kits, the Mainline comes in pieces for you to assemble and solder yourself and that's what makes it such a great option for Head-Fi enthusiasts - you get to pay less (because it's a kit) and you get to build it yourself for the satisfaction and understanding that comes along with it.
  
Parts & Assembly As you'd expect for the top of the line kit from Bottlehead, it's also the most intensive in terms of parts and overall size. The box isn't much bigger than the S.E.X. carton, but it's jam-packed with components including chassis plate, power transformer, output transformers, switches, sockets, capacitors, diodes, more resistors than you can poke a stick at, and a bunch of different hook-up cable including single core, 2 core with drain wire, and even some Cat-5 for good measure!
 
It was only when I unwrapped the parcels shown on the right that I realised how many pieces made up this beast. And, by the way, the Mainline kit doesn't come with a fiancee like the one in the picture - you'll have to get one of those elsewhere.
 

Custom Appearance  
If you've read my S.E.X.review above, you'll know that I like to customise my Bottlehead kits. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to and you can just build it straight from the box, but the beauty with receiving a kit in pieces like this is you have the opportunity to individually treat / paint / modify the parts before assembly. Doc B has recommended always treating the bell end (the cover for the power transformer) to prevent superficial rust, but that's the only recommended pre-assembly work if you don't feel the need to customise.
  
My custom treatment saw me once again return to Jimmy at Riga Craft in Cheltenham in Melbourne. Jimmy did an amazing job on the chassis plate of the S.E.X. and I hoped he could repeat the performance on the Mainline plate.
  

This type of work is not what Riga normally do and the Mainline proved more challenging for some reason. Jimmy did great work and made multiple attempts to get the chassis plate just right, but eventually had to concede that the plate would never be 100% blemish free. He was extremely helpful and the final product is a reflection of the challenges of anodising an item like this, not a reflection on Jimmy's professionalism and effort. That said, the finished product was a beautiful looking blue anodised finish with the tiniest of blemishes in 2-3 spots. Only 1 blemish would be visible in the final, assembled amplifier (see image to the left) so I decided to go with a chrome pin-stripe to cover it and also add a little bit of detailing to the finished kit.
 
All-in-all I was really happy with the finished look of the pin-stripe and it covered the tiny blemish perfectly so if you're thinking of anodising or painting your chassis plate, be prepared to improvise and get creative with things like pin-stripes because there is always a chance of minor blemishes in unfortunate locations no matter how careful you are.
 
Other than the chassis plate, I kept the rest of the customisation pretty simple with aluminium coloured engine enamel on the bell end and valve covers and a simple, linseed oil treatment on the wood base. I won't post images here because you'll get a chance to see it later in this review.
 
Hook-Up & Soldering  


Much like the other Bottlehead kits, the Mainline doesn't require an engineering degree to build and is just a matter of following the instructions carefully and taking your time.
  
Stage 1 is the attachment of all the components to the chassis plate. This stage is very straight-forward and possibly easier than the S.E.X. because you don't have the top-and-bottom mounting of the chokes and transformers like you do on the S.E.X. You need to pay attention to the mounting of the tube sockets and switches to ensure the correct orientations, and there's a little bit of adjustment to the gain switches before you install them, but that's about as tricky as it gets.
 
Once assembly is done, the soldering of wires is much the same as the S.E.X. Bottlehead provide multi-core cables for the signal and power so there are less individual strands going all over the place. This keeps the process nice and neat, but means stripping and prepping multi-core cables which can be a little fiddly so there's a trade-off. For what it's worth, I like the end result with the neatness of the Cat-5 and 2-core cables so it's worth the minor hassle of stripping multiple layers of insulation.
  

Another part of assembly is the "building" of the attenuators. At the bottom of the image of the assembled, but un-wired chassis you will see two blue circles with multiple silver terminals. These are the gain switches and require the installation of a series of resistors between the switch terminals and the terminal strips on either side.
 
I was initially intimidated by this step, but can report that it's quite manageable (with care and attention) thanks to the always excellent instructions provided by Bottlehead. I managed to goof on one of the solder joints here which caused a channel imbalance on one particular gain setting, but after wasting some people's time over on the Bottlehead Forum (thanks guys and sorry!) I discovered a solder joint had formed perfectly around one resistor's lead while leaving a void around the other resistor connected to the same terminal. 2-3 seconds of heat from the iron and it was right as rain!
 
Circuit Boards  

The Mainline is unique in the Bottlehead headphone amp range because it is very tightly regulated. The signal tubes are each provided with a C4S board (similar to the S.E.X. C4S upgrade), the power supply has its own circuit board featuring an array of capacitors and diodes (see image to the right), and there is a board with some trim pots to ensure that the power delivered to signal tubes is perfectly matched.
  

At first, I expected the circuit boards to make the Mainline more challenging to build, but in many ways it actually made the process easier because some of the tricky connections from the S.E.X. kit (e.g. the diodes on the power transformer) are addressed with much simpler circuit board assembly and then fly leads from the circuit boards to the relevant terminals on the tube sockets or transformer.
  
 I did make one crucial error at this stage though...
  
When wiring the blue trim pots on the regulator board (bottom left of image to the right), I mis-understood the instructions and failed to look at the provided picture in the manual. This resulted in one terminal on each side of the circuit board being left out of the circuit and was a complete pain in the **** to fix. As always, the key with these kits is patience, care and double-checking before soldering. I failed on this occasion, but was thankfully able to fix the problem without any broken parts.
 
Top Building Tips  
Much like the tips for the S.E.X. build, the Mainline is mostly about taking your time, being careful and double-checking the instructions before finalising a solder joint. Cable paths are much more defined on the Mainline so you don't need to think ahead about where to run each cable - Bottlehead have already done that for you and even provide cable tie-down points as part of the kit and instructions.
  
One tip that is a bit unique here though is to do your numbering of the terminals with a fine-tip marker. The marker I usually use is a bit thick and I had trouble marking some of the tighter spots (such as the tube socket terminals) and this came back to bite me later when I soldered a capacitor to the wrong terminals and had to re-do the connections.
  
  
Design  
The Mainline employs a design with output transformers so it will pair with a wider range of headphones than something like the Crack (which is output transformer-less or OTL). It also has balanced and single-ended outputs which differentiates it from the S.E.X. which is single-ended only. To achieve the balanced output, the Mainline has a full-sized Neutrik 4-pin XLR socket in addition to a 6mm Neutrik locking headphone jack.
  

It's worth noting here that there is a switch to select between balanced and unbalanced operation and although sound comes through both outputs in either mode, the sound definitely changes when when switched correctly for the socket and 'phones you're using.
 
Another design element unique to the Mainline (in relation to the Crack and S.E.X.) is its use of attenuation switches rather than a volume knob. Front and slightly left-of-centre on the amp are 2 black knobs labelled "coarse" and "fine". To set the volume on the Mainline, you first adjust the coarse attenuation which jumps in 9dB steps (from 0dB to -45dB) and then tweak the exact volume using the fine adjustment which moves in 1.5dB steps (from 0dB to -7.5dB).
 
I don't think this approach is necessarily better in terms of usability compared to the simple volume pot, but it's been implemented for the quality of the signal path and it works really nicely. Of course there's no way I can compare the quality of the sound with this setup versus a traditional potentiometer so we'll have to take Doc's word for it, but I'm yet to be disappointed with any of Bottlehead's design choices so I think it's a safe bet that this is the best option they could create.
 
Compatibility  

The Mainline has 2 different output impedances to suit high and low impedance headphones. There is a switch to select the mode you require and throwing this switch sends the signal through a different winding on the output transformer to provide more grunt to high impedance headphones, but at the cost of a higher output impedance. This makes the high output mode perfect for 300+ ohm Sennheisers and Beyerdynamics, but I'd stick to the low impedance mode for pretty much everything else just to ensure good damping and frequency response.
  
Listening with the Beyer T1s I definitely notice a slightly looser bass response on the high impedance setting, but it brings a desirable warmth and fullness rather than getting sloppy and loose. Flicking back to low impedance tightens up the bass, but sounds leaner as a result. Both settings sound excellent on the 600 ohm Beyers, but not so much on my 120 ohm Fischer FA-011 LEs, hence my recommendation of saving the high impedance mode for 300+ ohm headphones.
 
So far I've tried the Mainline with everything from 600 ohm Beyer T1s right down to 15.9 ohm Unique Melody Miracles. Normally, tube amps and headphone amps aren't great with sensitive IEMs, but the Mainline performed far better than I expected with only the faintest hum. The sound was excellent, but I think the output impedance is a little too high even on the low impedance setting to make the Mainline a good match with 16 ohm headphones or earphones and that's completely fine with me because this is a headphone amplifier designed for high-end headphones, not hyper-sensitive IEMs or low impedance headphones designed for portable use. It's got plenty of power for everything I've tried it with and it pairs extremely well with all sorts of headphones without any noise problems or impedance mis-matches.
 
Balanced Output  
Having a balanced output means the Mainline can play nicely with balanced headphones (i.e. headphones provided with balanced connections or with aftermarket cables / modification). Some common headphones that can be run balanced are Sennheisers and Beyerdynamics with dual cable entry (cable goes to both cups) and aftermarket cables / modifications, as well as the HiFiMan HE series and the Audeze LCD headphones.
 
Switching between balanced and unbalanced on the Mainline makes only a subtle difference to the sound with I think a slight (~1dB) volume increase running balanced and perhaps a slight increase in resolution and control. It's not a dramatic change and I wouldn't recommend spending a fortune for balanced headphones to go with the Mainline, but it's definitely a nice addition if you already have balanced headphones and I love being able to have 2 sets of headphones connected - Beyer T1s and Fischer FA-011 LEs for now.
 
There was a bit of discussion in this thread about the fact that the Mainline has a balanced output, but only unbalanced inputs. According to the discussions, this decision was made based on experiences that a good unbalanced input is as good (or maybe even better) than balanced inputs due to the extra complications of input transformers for balanced inputs. Unfortunately there's no way for me to confirm that because there's no fully balanced Mainline that I can compare directly with, but given Doc's track record (see reviews above) I think it's safe to assume that it's a sound decision (pun slightly intended).
 
Tubes  

The Mainline has 3 tubes in total. A 12AU7 is used to control the power while two 6C45-Pi tubes take care of the signal. From what I can tell there are really no alternatives to the 6C45 tubes and there's no point rolling the 12AU7 power tube because it doesn't influence the sound (I've tried).
 
This means that the Mainline, like the S.E.X. is a great amp if you don't want to fiddle around with rolling tubes, but may not be for you if you crave the opportunity to play with different tubes for their different sound characteristics. The Crack is the best (i.e. only) option for tube rolling in the Bottlehead range.
 
Sound  
The part that really matters...
 
I said after installing the C4S in the S.E.X. that I was worried how good the Mainline might be if it was any kind of significant upgrade over the S.E.X. + C4S combo which is outstanding. The good news is that the Mainline didn't blow my mind as I feared it might after hearing the S.E.X. + C4S. The bad news is that the leap from the S.E.X. to the Mainline isn't as dramatic as I thought it might be, but don't be discouraged - it's worth reading more to fully understand what differentiates the Mainline from it's cheaper brethren.
 
Treble  
Clean, crisp, extended and detailed, but oh so polite.
 
The Mainline delivers smooth, but fully extended treble without a hint of hash or grain. There's no lack of detail or clarity, but a complete lack of harshness and fatigue. The Mainline's treble presentation is the best I've heard as yet in my headphone journey. Cymbals, percussion and high frequency textures are present and clean with good weight and presence, but are well-balanced with the rest of the sonic picture. Music can still be sibilant, but only as a result of a poor recording, not because of the amplifier. As strange as it sounds, that's a good thing because it means the amp isn't adding harshness or edge to good recordings, but while also not smoothing over poor recordings - it's presenting what's there in a really polite, but accurate way.
 
Mids  
The mids from the Mainline are simply sublime. There's a weight and substance to the mids that is reminiscent of the Crack at its best, but significantly better.
 
Of all the Mainline's sonic traits, the midrange is probably the defining factor to my ears and it's the weight of notes which signifies the difference. Instruments and vocals sound and feel real. I had never really noticed before that other amps of mine create a really enjoyable facsimile of the instruments in the recording. The reason I had never noticed is because I hadn't heard it done just right. Hearing the Mainline has redefined my expectation of midrange presentation from an amplifier. There's no thickness or creaminess to the midrange sounds, just a solidity and presence that's beguiling and magical.
 
I wondered for a while if I'd hit a sweet spot on certain tracks, but listening to a range of tracks showed that the Mainline excels on a range of instruments, male and female vocals, transient sounds (such as drum hits) and sustained notes - everything just sounds so real.
 
Bass  
I've stated previously that the one short-coming of the S.E.X. in my eyes was it's slightly lean bass presentation. I'm pleased to report that the Mainline strikes a perfect balance between the Crack and the S.E.X. It's tighter than the Crack, but fuller than the S.E.X.
 
Similar to the mids, the bass from the Mainline is weighty and realistic. There is plenty of presence at the bottom end, but no bloat or bleed from the bass. As I mentioned earlier, the impedance switch can tighten or loosen the bass presentation slightly depending on your headphones, but on either setting (given appropriate impedance headphones) the bass is excellent - full, punchy, and quick with great impact, incredibly realistic weight, and just the right speed of decay.
 
There's not a lot more to say about the bass of the Mainline - it just does what it should - presents the bass in a realistic way that's accurate to the recording. There no emphasis or alteration that I can hear - just clean, accurate bass that's perfectly balanced with the rest of the audio spectrum.
 
Staging & Imaging  

If I had to choose one area that the Mainline has failed to meet my expectations, it's in the area of stage size, but this needs some explanation...
 
The Mainline's stage is more intimate than the S.E.X.'s and I simply adore the space and size you hear when plugged into the S.E.X. The Mainline's presentation is more intimate than the S.E.X. - once again about halfway between the presentation of the Crack and the S.E.X. If the Crack is a front row seat and the S.E.X. is a 10th row seat, then the Mainline is probably a 3rd or 4th row seat. I'll discuss the differences between the Mainline and the S.E.X. in the comparison section.
 
The Mainline's staging is open and defined despite the more intimate placement of the music so it's not like the staging and imaging is poor, it's just not in line with my personal preferences. That said, I'm not sure that the incredible realism and weight I discussed earlier would be possible with the more distant presentation of something like the S.E.X. and I would trade that level of realism for anything 
in the world.
 
You might be worried that a more intimate presentation equates to a congested or crowded sound - well don't be! Sounds are clearly separated and defined and the weight of notes discussed earlier make the imaging some of the most accurate and realistic I've heard. While only moderate in forward projection of the sound, the Mainline's stage is wide and has good height.
 
Perhaps the strongest aspect of the Mainline's staging and imaging is its ability to separate different sounds while maintaining a single overall auditory picture. This amp manages to keep a perfectly coherent representation of the musicians while also perfectly defining each sound in its own space. You can hear every instrument, vocal, noise and texture on it's own and yet also simultaneously as a part of the overall sonic tapestry. Sounds pop out of the recording when they're meant to and blend in when they're meant to, but at any time you can single out any individual sound or instrument and hear it completely on it's own without negative influence from other sounds in the recording. This all makes for an incredibly engaging listening experience and it's got me *really* wanting to try the Mainline with some HD800s to see what it's really capable of when it comes to staging and imaging.
 
Sound Summary  
The Mainline's sound is effortless. It's controlled, polite and completely coherent. At first listen you may not be "wowed" by this amp, but on extended listening you soon realise that every track you hear sounds as solid and real as you've ever heard it. Nothing jumps out to amaze you, but everything sounds excellent.
 
I used to work for Bang & Olufsen and one of the key traits with their audio and video gear was an attention to lifelike reproduction. At first, lifelike reproduction sounds ordinary and everyday - it's only as you spend more and more time with it that you appreciation of it grows because it's completely believable and never fatiguing because nothing is overdone or enhanced. The Mainline reminds me a lot of this approach to audio - nothing is emphasised or highlighted so it's not an exciting sound, but it's a real sound and that continues to be enjoyable for hours on end and days, months and years of listening.
 
The sound of the Mainline is accurate, clean, smooth and controlled. It's incredibly balanced across all frequencies and it delivers the same auditory experience on every track I've tried across all kinds of genres. This is an amp you buy to listen to and enjoy for the long haul, not to "wow" you or amaze you in the short term. The realism of sound from this amp is still enlightening me as I continue to listen - it's a subtle kind of marvelous that has to be lived with for a while to fully understand, but it's addictive and amazing once it starts to sink in.
 

Comparisons to Crack (w Speedball) and S.E.X. (w C4S)  
I've compared the Crack and S.E.X. comprehensively above, so I'm going to keep this fairly simple with descriptive explanations of how the 3 amps compare on certain traits. If you have any specific questions I'll be happy to respond in the thread.
 
Signatures The Mainline's signature is most like the Crack w Speedball. It's smoother than the S.E.X. with a little less treble energy, but no less detail and the Mainline's bass is a notch or two stronger than the S.E.X. Flicking between the S.E.X. and the Mainline, I'd say the the Mainline has flatter bass response while the S.E.X. sounds like it has a slight mid-bass hump before rolling off in the lower registers. This is all really subtle stuff because they all sound great, but the Mainline is clearly the most neutral / balanced sounding of all the range across all frequency ranges.
 
Staging & Imaging  
As I've already mentioned, the S.E.X. presents a wider, more spacious soundstage that I just love! The Mainline's staging is much more similar to the Crack - intimate but with more space around the sounds. For stage size alone, the S.E.X. actually wins this battle for me, but others might prefer the more intimate presentation of the Mainline.
In terms of imaging, I'd say the Mainline is easily the most realistic amp I've ever heard because of the weight of notes - everything sounds so real and present that it's a revelation. The S.E.X. is excellent in terms of imaging, but sounds like a excellent reproduction while the Mainline sounds like the real thing. The Crack is commendable for its price tag (running with the stock tubes), but can't compete with the other two in this area.
 
Resolution and Detail  
I was expecting this to be really close, but it wasn't... The S.E.X. produces excellent details, but the Mainline just flat-out outperforms it from a couple of perspectives. Firstly, the smoother presentation means that nothing is overshadowed. Listening to the S.E.X. I occasionally lost details behind a little bit of excess treble energy, but the Mainline never does this - everything is beautifully balanced so you can hear everything in the recording. In addition to the smooth presentation, the weight of notes from the Mainline means that even subtle details are given presence in the recording. They don't over-step their place in the sonic landscape, but they are 100% there and you hear them all exactly how they were intended.
 
Reality Check  

Just like I did for the S.E.X. / Crack comparison, I upgraded the tubes in the Crack to see how close I could get it to the Mainline. In its stock form, the Crack can't compete with the Mainline (and nor should it at 30% of the price), but how about with a $20-30 12AU7 and a $150 6AS7G (brown base GEC)?
 
Good news in all directions! The Mainline remains clearly better in terms of refinement, space between sounds, overall stage size, and resolution. However, the $600-700 version of the Crack offers astounding performance for those who prefer a more intimate presentation than the S.E.X., but don't want to go so far as the Mainline in terms of price.
 
The Crack remains an astounding achievement in terms of price-to-performance ratio and it's the only Bottlehead amp to provide the fun option of tube rolling to tune the sound.
 
Overall Summary of the Mainline  
Overall, the Mainline clearly holds its place as the flagship Bottlehead amp and is currently the best amplifier I have ever heard. The fact that you can build it yourself, customise its appearance, run balanced and unbalanced headphones, select between 2 inputs on the fly, and adjust output impedance to suit different cans makes this an outstanding amplifier for those looking for an end-game flagship amp.
 
On first listen I was worried that the Mainline wasn't worth its price tag, but its real value is in how transparent and subtle it is - don't buy the Mainline to wow your friends with a short listen, buy the Mainline to amaze yourself for months upon days upon hours of listening.
 
Cap Upgrade Update  
Over the past few weeks (April-May 2014) I've installed two sets of capacitors into the Mainline starting with a set of 18uF Auricap High Resolution capacitors in the position of the stock Dayton 10uF capacitors and a set of 0.1uF FT-3 teflon capacitors fresh from Romania replacing the stock 0.1uF Daytons on the Bias Regulator board.
 
FT-3 Teflons - 0.1uF 600V  
I'm going to start this update with the teflons on the regulator board. I've literally just finished this installation and it may require some time for burn-in of the teflon caps, but I honestly can't hear any noticeable difference in the sound and would question the value given that the installation is a bit ugly and clunky due to the size of these capacitors. As you can see in the image to the right, I've had to run fly leads from the teflon caps which are cable tied to the Auricaps. I've also use some heat shrink tape to create an insulating buffer to keep the teflon caps sitting a little way off the Auricaps (even though there should be no issue with them touching due to the plastic coating on the Auricaps.
 
These FT-3s cost around $10 per pair plus postage (via eBay) so it's a small enough investment that I really don't mind if they have done absolutely nothing to the sound because they haven't taken anything away and if they provide improvements after burn-in then that's great.
 
I found some variation in the bias settings (adjustments to ensure identical voltages for each output tube) following the install so if you do change the regulator caps be sure to double-check the biasing if you want to maximise performance.
 
Auricap High Resolution Polypropylene - 18uF 400V  
These have been in place for a few weeks now and are definitely a worthy upgrade. They cost me about $130 for the pair from a local supplier and are the best $130 I've spent in a while. As you can see in the pictures, they *just* fit in the space between the C4S boards and the output transformers, but still need a tie down using an adhesive anchor on the chassis (the same as the ones supplied with the Mainline kit to tie down the Cat 6 cables).
 
If you've read the review of the Mainline above, you'll know that the treble on the Mainline in stock form is extended and detailed, but still smooth and non-fatiguing. I did say in the original review that there's no hint of fatigue when listening to the Mainline, but I have to call myself a liar now and say that there must have been the tiniest hint of harshness / graininess there. I know that because now it's gone and its absence has left all of the Mainlines magic on full display. Don't get me wrong, the stock Mainline kit is in no way flawed. In fact, as I see it, the ability to spend $130 and 15 minutes to bring the amp to another level shows just how good this circuit is.
 
The sound with the Auricaps is basically identical to the overall sound of the stock Mainline only smoother, more defined and just better. Treble is smoother while still fully extended and detailed. Midrange textures are sophisticated and intricate, and the bass is extended, textured and punchy. As I said above, the best thing about the Auricaps in the Mainline is that they don't change a great thing. They keep the Mainline's signature and neutrality completely intact and just let it do what it does better. It's hard to say exactly how much influence the Auricaps have had on this next part, but I would swear that the Mainline now has a clearer, stronger image than before. This is most likely due to the slightly smoother treble allowing all the other auditory cues to arrive cleanly and accurately, but the staging and imaging now with the Beyer T1s is really magical. It was good before - outstanding even, but it definitely seems even better to these ears now. I am having "wow" moments multiple times each day.
 
One other note as to why I chose the 18uF rather than a direct replacement of the 10uF stock caps. From the reading I did, a larger capacitance can provide better bass response which I was keen to explore to see if there was any room for improvement in the case of the Mainline. The results are that if there's an improvement there I can't tell. The hardest challenge here is that you can't quickly A/B a capacitor change like this so it's all based on auditory memory and the difference in bass extension (if there is one) is small enough to be insignificant, unlike the change in sophistication and smoothness in the mids and treble.
 
Capacitor Wrap  
The only other caps in the circuit that could potentially benefit from upgrading are the electrolytics used on the power supply board, but they fit so neatly on the board and are already good quality Panasonic capacitors so the potential benefits here seem questionable (although I'm always open to being convinced otherwise).
 
If I were asked today what to upgrade in the Mainline, I would strongly urge building the stock kit first and then considering the Auricaps if you like the stock sound. If you yearn for something warmer or lusher - more tubey perhaps - then the Mundorf Supremes might be a better choice (write up of Mundorf Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil coming to the S.E.X. review soon), but I definitely think there's huge value in hearing the stock kit first so you know which way to tweak (or not tweak) the sound if you choose to upgrade the output (technically parafeed coupling) caps. Unless something changes in the coming days / weeks in which case I'll be back to edit this post, I wouldn't really recommend changing the regulator caps. Keep the build neat and simple.


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## Zashoomin

I am very excited to see what your results are. I will post my impressions of the SEX and also the SEX vs mainline as soon as I gather the funds as well.


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## skeptic

This should be a great thread!  I look forward to your comparisons and hope to share some of my own as well in the not too distant future.  My mainline build is coming along - currently finishing off the last half dozen or so resistors in the coarse attenuator.  
  
*11-18-13 Update - Initial Impressions of Mainline:*
  
 Having finished my mainline over the weekend and sat back with my hd800's and listened through a sampling of my favorite tracks this evening (from Oscar Peterson and Jazz at the Pawnshop k2hd to Emma Kirkby and the Choir of St. Martins, and from Alison Krauss to 2Pac)  - I have to seriously applaud the team at bottlehead on their new flagship.  This amp is technically excellent and thoroughly enjoyable with every genre you can throw at it, and that is most definitely not a statement that I would make about many widely recommended "TOTL" headphone amps.  
  
 To provide something a bit more concrete - here are a few preliminary impressions of what I'm hearing in reference to Pierre Fournier's brilliant performance of Bach's Cello Suites.  I've probably listened to this album a hundred times on various systems and can't ever recall hearing it sound this good.  Transients are simply effortless - so fast and clean.  Timbre is rich and lifelike, and the audible micro-detail and texture as Fournier digs deep into the strings on certain notes are absolutely amazing.  More generally, on albums across the board, bass presentation is faultless - deep, impactful, and incredibly tight.  Possibly the best I've heard from any tube amp?  Trebles are detailed and nicely extended, but never strident.  For example, I tend to prefer my crack with the anax mod in place.  But to my ears, the pairing with the mainline doesn't need it and hd800's have more air without.  
  
 From a comparative standpoint, I will always love my crack (an incredible value which will soon take up residence in my office) - but for anyone who has been sitting on the fence awaiting comparisons, be assured that, at least to my ears, the mainline absolutely takes it to the next level.  
  
 The mainline retains what I have come to think of as bottlehead's house signature (fast, dynamic and engaging - making your toes tap - with a hint of tube fullness and warmth - the tubes, in a sense, filling in for the room effects you don't get with headphones), but it is just incredibly clean and refined, particularly in its excellent bass response and handling of transients, compared to my modded crack.  This is no doubt the result of its ultra highly regulated single gain stage topology and excellent custom output transformers.  Based on my recollections from CanJam - I would analogize that mainline is as fast, detailed and dynamic as a Zana Deux (leaving slower "tubier" flagships like the Woo 5 in the dust), but with a slightly sweeter top end.  Trumpets still scream when the source material calls for it, but I can't imagine this amp will ever be characterized as even slightly harsh or piercing - which criticisms are occasionally aimed at the Zana.  (I imagine this may mean that mainline has really low high order distortion - sort of the antithesis of the disproportionate glare folks complain of in SS amps with lots of global feedback?)  In any event, these positive qualities essentially mean that the mainline is a perfect match for hd800's to my ears.  Even when listening to very simple music (i.e. the Wailin Jenny's - the Parting Glass), the incredibly clean separation between voices is an obvious improvement over other amps with which I am familiar and makes vocal harmonies that much more enjoyable.  The same obviously applies to fast complex music as well, where the mainline's control and handling of transients is consistently impressive.  The more I listen, the more enamored I become.
  
 Hope more of you will have a chance to hear this amp in the near future. If possible, I will bring mine to the So. Cal. meet in March.


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## Loquah

skeptic said:


> This should be a great thread!  I look forward to your comparisons and hope to share some of my own as well in the not too distant future.  My mainline build is coming along - currently finishing off the last half dozen or so resistors in the coarse attenuator.
> 
> [In any event, I'll reserve this spot for a bit of crack v. mainline compare and contrast.]


 
  
 Brilliant. Thanks for jumping on board!
  
 Thanks also for your quick support and contributions @Zashoomin!


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## Zashoomin

loquah said:


> Brilliant. Thanks for jumping on board!
> 
> Thanks also for your quick support and contributions @Zashoomin!


 
  
 No problem.  I am looking forward to building and listening to the mainline.  I am just using this thread as an excuse to buy one.


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## brunk

Subbed


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## Doc B.

FWIW I rewrote some recommendations regarding the choice of amp for our soon-to-be-overhauled web site. It was old enough that it discussed our retired Smack kit, so it now includes Mainline instead. I won't post it here because that could easily be construed as advertising. But It should be up on the new site in the next month or two.


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## Loquah

doc b. said:


> FWIW I rewrote some recommendations regarding the choice of amp for our soon-to-be-overhauled web site. It was old enough that it discussed our retired Smack kit, so it now includes Mainline instead. I won't post it here because that could easily be construed as advertising. But It should be up on the new site in the next month or two.


 
  
 Brilliant. Thanks Doc. Any chance you could paste that content into a PM or email for me? Completing the SEX has me excited about the potential from the Mainline so I'd be interested to read your recommendations so I can relate it to my current tastes and equipment.


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## amcananey

Subscribed.


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## amcananey

doc b. said:


> FWIW I rewrote some recommendations regarding the choice of amp for our soon-to-be-overhauled web site. It was old enough that it discussed our retired Smack kit, so it now includes Mainline instead. I won't post it here because that could easily be construed as advertising. But It should be up on the new site in the next month or two.




Doc,

Please put the current comparison into the Bottlehead archive / Community section, so it is still accessible to those of us who own Smacks.

Thanks!
Adam


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## W0lfd0g




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## ffivaz

Subscribed!


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## Loquah

ffivaz said:


> Subscribed!


 
  
 My apologies, ffivaz. I just noticed your Crack is currently w/o Speedball. I'm not trying to make you spend more money, really!


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## bala

subscribed!


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## W0lfd0g

doc b. said:


> FWIW I rewrote some recommendations regarding the choice of amp for our soon-to-be-overhauled web site. It was old enough that it discussed our retired Smack kit, so it now includes Mainline instead. I won't post it here because that could easily be construed as advertising. But It should be up on the new site in the next month or two.


 
  
 You don't need to advertise, Doc.  We're already doing it for you!


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## Loquah

With all the attention that's come to this thread so quickly (thanks everyone!) I thought I'd make sure to really do this properly. I've updated the first post with full details of my approach to the reviews. If anyone has any special requests (i.e. particular music styles, etc.) I will be happy to accommodate as best I can. Please PM me with special requests.
  
 I'll post a comment in the main thread each time I add to the reserved review slots so it'll flag on your subscriptions.


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## W0lfd0g

Posted a link to this thread over at the Bottlhead forums (in the "Crack" section).  I think it will be of interest to many.  Having read some of Lachlan's other reviews, the methodology to be used and format, it should be a very valuable reference.


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## Aeolus Kratos

Subscribed


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## JamieMcC

I have been mulling over attempting a crack build for the last six months and finally pulled the trigger today! So am looking forward to following this thread as it grows.


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## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> I have been mulling over attempting a crack build for the last six months and finally pulled the trigger today! So am looking forward to following this thread as it grows.




Congrats on a great choice. You'll find the Bottlehead forum really helpful with build questions in the Crack thread and visual inspiration in the Gallery thread.


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## Loquah

Crack Review now complete and posted: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831525


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## brunk

Excellent Crack Review! Looking forward to more of your bottlehead reviews


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## Aeolus Kratos

Truly one of the best Crack reviews I have ever read!
  
 Nice presentation, very easy to understand.
  
 Excellent job Loquah


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## Loquah

brunk said:


> Excellent Crack Review! Looking forward to more of your bottlehead reviews


 
  
  


aeolus kratos said:


> Truly one of the best Crack reviews I have ever read!
> 
> Nice presentation, very easy to understand.
> 
> Excellent job Loquah


 
  
 Thanks folks! I really enjoyed doing this one again (I reviewed it on my blog ages ago). Looking forward to the SEX tonight before taking a break until I get the C4S and then the Mainline.


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## brunk

aeolus kratos said:


> Truly one of the best Crack reviews I have ever read!
> 
> Nice presentation, very easy to understand.
> 
> Excellent job Loquah


 
  
 +1 The formatting is perfect, and laid out in logical chunks that flow in order.


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## JamieMcC

Loquah that is a smashing write up. I also have the Beyer T1 and HD650 which I am really enjoying and was very interested to read your comments about the T1 and Crack's synergies in the treble area being highly enjoyable and smooth. That is just what I have been hoping for and one of the main drivers behind my recent crack purchase.


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## ffivaz

loquah said:


> My apologies, ffivaz. I just noticed your Crack is currently w/o Speedball. I'm not trying to make you spend more money, really! :evil:




Hey, I tried the Crack stock for about 6 months, and ordered the speedball a month ago. Will be shipping soon I hope! I ordered an Integration kit for my Reduction, also. October will be upgrade-month!


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## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Loquah that is a smashing write up. I also have the Beyer T1 and HD650 which I am really enjoying and was very interested to read your comments about the T1 and Crack's synergies in the treble area being highly enjoyable and smooth. That is just what I have been hoping for and one of the main drivers behind my recent crack purchase.




Thanks Jamie! Interestingly, I found the Crack to be great with both cans, but I chose different tubes for each headphone. I didn't have the GEC tube back then though. 

The Cleartop plus Mullard 6080 was the choice for the HD650s. I was using a GE 6AS7 with Genalex 12AU7 Gold Lion for the T1s


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## Loquah

ffivaz said:


> Hey, I tried the Crack stock for about 6 months, and ordered the speedball a month ago. Will be shipping soon I hope! I ordered an Integration kit for my Reduction, also. October will be upgrade-month!




That'll be an awesome October!


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## Doc B.

loquah said:


> Crack Review now complete and posted: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831525


 
  
 Holy smokes Lachlan! Thanks so much for your effort! Concise, detailed, and very well laid out. I'd like to throw in one little nugget that might help folks understand OTL a little better. The second stage (which is a cathode follower) that is occupied by the 6080 tube is, in concert with the output capacitor, effectively functioning as the output transformer for this amp. It does the job of creating a lower output impedance with better current drive, much the same as an output transformer does. Each of these methods has its benefits and shortcomings, it's really a matter of choosing your poison. One definite advantage of the tube output in this particular case (vs. output transformers) is a substantial reduction in cost, which we can pass along to our customers.


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## Loquah

doc b. said:


> Holy smokes Lachlan! Thanks so much for your effort! Concise, detailed, and very well laid out. I'd like to throw in one little nugget that might help folks understand OTL a little better. The second stage (which is a cathode follower) that is occupied by the 6080 tube is, in concert with the output capacitor, effectively functioning as the output transformer for this amp. It does the job of creating a lower output impedance with better current drive, much the same as an output transformer does. Each of these methods has its benefits and shortcomings, it's really a matter of choosing your poison. One definite advantage of the tube output in this particular case (vs. output transformers) is a substantial reduction in cost, which we can pass along to our customers.




Thanks Doc. That's kind of what I understood from the great article shared by amcananey over on the Crack thread, but it's nice to hear it so concisely and straight from the source.


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## Loquah

S.E.X. review and comparison between S.E.X. and Crack now posted: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831527
  
 Doc, as per the additional information you posted regarding the Crack as an OTL design, please add any insights you care to about the S.E.X.  I for one find them very helpful as I'm learning more about the designs of your amplifier kits.


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## W0lfd0g

CURSE YOU, LOQUAH!  Now I have to save the pennies and buy a Bottlehead SEX!
  
 Let me be the first to congratulate you on the review.  It answers all the questions I had and some I didn't have the wits to think of.


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## Jmstrmbn

This could turn out to be an expensive read, I've been considering building a full-range speaker system and the SEX would kill two birds...


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## Aeolus Kratos

w0lfd0g said:


> CURSE YOU, LOQUAH!  Now I have to save the pennies and buy a Bottlehead SEX!
> 
> Let me be the first to congratulate you on the review.  It answers all the questions I had and some I didn't have the wits to think of.


 
  
 Curse you twice, LOQUAH! Why did not you post the review before I bought a wonderful GEC 6AS7G from W0lfd0g, that would have saved me a bunch dollars for buying a SEX! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Haha, I'm just kidding.
  
 Spectacular job, Loquah, your presentation is just outstanding


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## Zashoomin

jmstrmbn said:


> This could turn out to be an expensive read, I've been considering building a full-range speaker system and the SEX would kill two birds...


 
 If you want to power both speakers and headphone I highly suggest you get the impedence switch upgrade as you will probably want to have different impedences depending on the what you are going to be using. 
  


loquah said:


> S.E.X. review and comparison between S.E.X. and Crack now posted: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831527
> 
> Doc, as per the additional information you posted regarding the Crack as an OTL design, please add any insights you care to about the S.E.X.  I for one find them very helpful as I'm learning more about the designs of your amplifier kits.


 
  
 Very well done review I had fun reading it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Wait til the C4S upgrades comes...it will sound even better. Can't wait to read your next findings.


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## Loquah

w0lfd0g said:


> CURSE YOU, LOQUAH!  Now I have to save the pennies and buy a Bottlehead SEX!
> 
> Let me be the first to congratulate you on the review.  It answers all the questions I had and some I didn't have the wits to think of.


 
  
 Haha - thanks Nathan! I think you'll love the S.E.X. and it is a great complement for the Crack rather than a direct replacement as such.
  


jmstrmbn said:


> This could turn out to be an expensive read, I've been considering building a full-range speaker system and the SEX would kill two birds...


 
  
 Yes, I should have apologised to everyone's wallets up front, shouldn't I? As for the full-range speaker system, just make sure you build something that's nice an sensitive for it to pair well with the S.E.X.
  


aeolus kratos said:


> Curse you twice, LOQUAH! Why did not you post the review before I bought a wonderful GEC 6AS7G from W0lfd0g, that would have saved me a bunch dollars for buying a SEX!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, I'm getting cursed a lot today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There is no doubt that the 6AS7G absolutely maximises the Crack's potential and the mid-range it produces is clearly superior to the S.E.X. so don't sweat it - now you can just add the S.E.X. so that you have creamy, lush midrange from the Crack and for high impedance cans, and clarity, imaging and detail from the S.E.X. and for all range of cans.
  
 Also, @Zashoomin, I'm definitely looking forward to the C4S kit and also getting a response about the differences made by the wiring of the output transformers. I maybe should ask that on the Bottlehead forum so it's not all on Doc to answer. I'll see what I can find out...


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## Doc B.

I am up to my armpits servicing our ancient oil furnace today, but I just wanted to clarify that the noise floor of the S.E.X. amp goes down as the output tap gets lower, i.e., 4 ohms will have the lowest noise. The 32 ohm tap is going to be useful when you have relatively insensitive, power hungry cans, but you may hear the noise floor with sensitive cans on that tap. So use the lowest tap that still gives you enough volume for the cans you are using.


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## Loquah

doc b. said:


> I am up to my armpits servicing our ancient oil furnace today, but I just wanted to clarify that the noise floor of the S.E.X. amp goes down as the output tap gets lower, i.e., 4 ohms will have the lowest noise. The 32 ohm tap is going to be useful when you have relatively insensitive, power hungry cans, but you may hear the noise floor with sensitive cans on that tap. So use the lowest tap that still gives you enough volume for the cans you are using.




Thanks Doc. I'll edit the review to clarify.


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## Aeolus Kratos

loquah said:


> Wow, I'm getting cursed a lot today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Loquah,
  
 There's one interesting thing I've just recently noticed. Your SEX wood base's color is nearly the same as my Crack's one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  

  

  
 Sexy brown


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## BIG POPPA

Subscribed


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## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Hi Loquah,
> 
> There's one interesting thing I've just recently noticed. Your SEX wood base's color is nearly the same as my Crack's one
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes. Mine's Jarrah stain. What's yours? It looks nice.


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## Loquah

Folks, I just hooked up my old SpeakerCraft bookshelves with the SEX. The other night I just quickly fired them up in the living room, not properly placed or angled and was not particularly impressed.
 
Today I evicted my B&O BeoLab 3s and replaced them in my office with the bookshelves and Holy "Expletive"! These aren't great speakers, but jeez they sound good. They can't match the BeoLab 3s for off-axis performance, but the S.E.X. is helping them to create a truly beautiful image and stage. The only thing I'd like is a touch more bass, but I might EQ for that.
 
PS - sorry about the rushed photo!


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## LoveKnight

Thanks, man. What a nice, impressive review with easily understandable words that I have ever read and even I am a mid-English level man like me can understand most of it. Thanks again and really want to read the last two parts of the review. A big picture of Bottlehead Amplifiers.
  
 It has been a long time that I find myself more interested to read a review like this. Really a long time, the last time was the 50+ headphones comparison.


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## clowkoy

loquah said:


> [COLOR=FF4400]
> [/COLOR]
> Folks, I just hooked up my old SpeakerCraft bookshelves with the SEX. The other night I just quickly fired them up in the living room, not properly placed or angled and was not particularly impressed.
> 
> ...



I'm assuming you haven't installed the C4S. Bass really improved after I installed the C4S.


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## Loquah

loveknight said:


> Thanks, man. What a nice, impressive review with easily understandable words that I have ever read and even I am a mid-English level man like me can understand most of it. Thanks again and really want to read the last two parts of the review. A big picture of Bottlehead Amplifiers.
> 
> It has been a long time that I find myself more interested to read a review like this. Really a long time, the last time was the 50+ headphones comparison.




Thanks Loveknight. I'm glad you enjoyed it.



clowkoy said:


> I'm assuming you haven't installed the C4S. Bass really improved after I installed the C4S.




Correct. C4S comes next so I'm really glad to hear that it improves the bass. I like the sound a lot already, but a touch more bass would put the SEX over the top.


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## clowkoy

Just saying that you can use the Stereomour for headphones too!


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## Loquah

Nice looking setup!

On another note, please disregard my comments about the speakers sounding lean in the bass. Turns out their not sensitive enough for the S.E.X. so while they still sound good, they're not giving their all and not doing the amp any favours.


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## grausch

Subscribed


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## mcandmar

Thanks for taking the time to write those great reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If the only high impedance cans you owned were the HD650's, which amp would you prefer to own?


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## Loquah

mcandmar said:


> Thanks for taking the time to write those great reviews
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't tried the 650s with both, but based on my experiences I'd probably choose the S.E.X.
  
 The 650s are so smooth and warm to begin with that I think the extra transparency and clarity of the S.E.X. would really bring them alive. I loved the 650s with the Crack, but I think the Crack is at it's best with slightly brighter cans like the HD600s, Beyer T1s, etc.
  
 I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on your question.


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## ffivaz

loquah said:


> I haven't tried the 650s with both, but based on my experiences I'd probably choose the S.E.X.
> 
> The 650s are so smooth and warm to begin with that I think the extra transparency and clarity of the S.E.X. would really bring them alive. I loved the 650s with the Crack, but I think the Crack is at it's best with slightly brighter cans like the HD600s, Beyer T1s, etc.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on your question.



 
I never tried the S.E.X. amp, so I can just talk about my Crack, w/o speedball. If you read all the threads about Crack or HD650 on head-fi, everyone raves about the combination. So do I. I love my HD650s with the Crack. I my opinion, the HD650/Crack Combo is better compared to a "brighter" can like the Beyerdynamic DT880 (Revox 3100, an OEM version of them from the 80s) with the Crack. Treble are bright but not harsh, mids are better than with anything else and bass isn't tight, but I like it that way


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## Aeolus Kratos

ffivaz said:


> I never tried the S.E.X. amp, so I can just talk about my Crack, w/o speedball. If you read all the threads about Crack or HD650 on head-fi, everyone raves about the combination. So do I. I love my HD650s with the Crack. I my opinion, the HD650/Crack Combo is better compared to a "brighter" can like the Beyerdynamic DT880 (Revox 3100, an OEM version of them from the 80s) with the Crack. Treble are bright but not harsh, mids are better then with anything else and bass isn't tight, but I like it that way


 
 Buy and install Speedball to your Crack, then the bass is much tighter and more controlled


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## Loquah

Hey everyone, I just noticed on the Crack thread that W0lfd0g is selling some awesome tubes for the Crack. PM him if you want to maximise your Crack's sound - he's got some real treasures.

PS - I'm guessing they won't be cheap given the high quality and rarity of the tubes, but worth every cent and I can vouch for his pricing - fair and not inflated for profits


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## bala

It has been a while since I heard the 600s, sold them off to settle with the 650. Loving the 650 with the Crack+SB, I was able to try the dt880 (600ohm) with my crack+sb and liked it as well. Though I wouldn't say it was better than the pairing with the 650, ofcourse it was only a brief listen and that may well change after longer listening sessions. The 650 is so easy to love that it is usually difficult to completely enjoy something new 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am already searching for other headphones for my crack+sb, an AKG 240 DF is on the way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## ffivaz

aeolus kratos said:


> Buy and install Speedball to your Crack, then the bass is much tighter and more controlled


 
  
 I'm eagerly waiting for the kit to ship from BH


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## NZheadcase

Subbed! 
  
 Hope to pull the trigger on a crack + SB soon. 
  
 Great thread and reviews Loquah!


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## Loquah

nzheadcase said:


> Subbed!
> 
> Hope to pull the trigger on a crack + SB soon.
> 
> Great thread and reviews Loquah!


 
  
 Thanks NZheadcase. I answered your question about difficulty of Crack vs S.E.X. over on the T1 thread, but will paste it here for others who might be interested:
  
 Quote from other thread: 





nzheadcase said:


> How much more difficult is the S.E.X. to build when compared to the crack?


 
  
 The S.E.X. is more difficult only because of the higher number of connections and a few slightly cramped solder jobs, but otherwise it's still just point-to-point work and is straightforward if approached with care and patience (not necessarily high levels of skill).


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## wewewho77

Subscribed.


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## Loquah

Pleased to announce that the Quickie pre-amp will also be joining this thread. I should have reserved more spots!


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## clowkoy

loquah said:


> I should have reserved more spots!


 
  For the Reduction, Eros, Stereomour, Mainline, Beepre and Paramounts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The Quickie can be configured as a headphone amp with the addition of a small transformer (1/channel).


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## Loquah

clowkoy said:


> For the Reduction, Eros, Stereomour, Mainline, Beepre and Paramounts!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha. That might be going too far... even for me!
  
 The impetus for the Quickie purchase was the fact that my new upcoming DAC is the Matrix X-Sabre which has no pre-amp stage so I need an external volume control for my powered speakers.


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## Doc B.

clowkoy said:


> The Quickie can be configured as a headphone amp with the addtion of a small transformer (1/channel).


 
 "Can be", yes. However we make three dedicated headphone amps that will work much better with headphones.  PB made a few Quickies with transformer outputs when it first came out, and while they worked OK they really don't have the power to run headphones all that well. The step down ratio of the transformer combined with the low mu of the 3S4 means they don't have much gain. Quickie is really intended to be used as a preamp, without any transformers. That job it does well.


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## brunk

doc b. said:


> "Can be", yes. However we make three dedicated headphone amps that will work much better with headphones.  PB made a few Quickies with transformer outputs when it first came out, and while they worked OK they really don't have the power to run headphones all that well. The step down ratio of the transformer combined with the low mu of the 3S4 means they don't have much gain. Quickie is really intended to be used as a preamp, without any transformers. That job it does well.


 
 So when is a multi-channel tube amp called "Purple Haze" coming out?


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## Loquah

brunk said:


> So when is a multi-channel tube amp called "Purple Haze" coming out?


 
 Brunk, are you trying to get a job in their marketing and PR team?


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## brunk

loquah said:


> Brunk, are you trying to get a job in their marketing and PR team?


 
 Lol, I sure would love that job! Sling Crack and Smack all day with the occasional SEX in between


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## Doc B.

Yeah, our day to day is pretty much li' dis -


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## brunk

doc b. said:


> Yeah, our day to day is pretty much li' dis -
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




 Oh man Doc, you have a great sense of humor! You got a good belly laugh out of me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 "If you ain't gettin' it done, it gonna get done to ya" - Bottlehead's motto by his #1 gangsta


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## JamieMcC

Reserved


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## Loquah

I might be mistaken, but I think we're not meant to post about that site. you might want to edit that post, JamieMcC


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## JamieMcC

Thanks Loquah for the heads up on that I checked and you are correct. I took it for qranted it was ok due to all the posts on head fi about the Crack related offer they ran and even found out about them via Head fi.  I have PMed Jude for some clarification and to see if its ok to post about the offer as they request.
  
  
 "Group Buys can not be promoted on Head-Fi's Main Forums, or via Head-Fi's Private Messaging, without first receiving authorization from Jude via Head-Fi Private Messaging or e-mail. Please note, though, that it is not our desire to see Group Buys used by Members of the Trade as a primary method of distribution and advertising on Head-Fi's forums--so, for this and other reasons, they are usually not approved. Exceptions may be made on a case-by-case basis, and most often for DIY-related parts that might otherwise be unreasonably difficult to obtain."


----------



## DarKen23

Subscribed! Looks like I have the S.E.X with c4s upgrades in the stir~

The Yulong DA8, HD800, and fully upgraded S.E.X looks very promising


----------



## Loquah

Sounds nice. I'll be able to give you an idea of S.E.X. with similar high end setup (Matrix X-Sabre DAC and Beyer T1s) soon. Single-ended only though without modifying the S.E.X.


----------



## DarKen23

loquah said:


> Sounds nice. I'll be able to give you an idea of S.E.X. with similar high end setup (Matrix X-Sabre DAC and Beyer T1s) soon. Single-ended only though without modifying the S.E.X.


Awesome, Ill look for that. Are you using a passive preamp?

Also, I really do hope that c4s upgrade addresses the bass department otherwise I _may _reconsider. Its going to be tough to accept anything less from what the A18 offers in terms of bass.


----------



## Loquah

I'll be using the Bottlehead Quickie or no pre-amp (depending on Quickie SQ). 

I am looking forward to C4S impact on bass too, but already prefer SEX over Crack despite some drop in bass. Everything is just so clean and transparent, although T1s are a little warmer than HD800s so it might get too lean with HD800s. I might have to try some once the C4S is installed.


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> Awesome, Ill look for that. Are you using a passive preamp?
> 
> Also, I really do hope that c4s upgrade addresses the bass department otherwise I _may _reconsider. Its going to be tough to accept anything less from what the A18 offers in terms of bass.


 
  
  


loquah said:


> I'll be using the Bottlehead Quickie or no pre-amp (depending on Quickie SQ).
> 
> I am looking forward to C4S impact on bass too, but already prefer SEX over Crack despite some drop in bass. Everything is just so clean and transparent, although T1s are a little warmer than HD800s so it might get too lean with HD800s. I might have to try some once the C4S is installed.


 
 I'll be looking forward in anticipation of both your experiences as I may jump on the S.E.X. wagon myself in the future 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I know Ken will be in for a treat with what him and I have in the works


----------



## Loquah

Who's Ken and what DO you have in the works?


----------



## brunk

loquah said:


> Who's Ken and what DO you have in the works?


 
 I meant DarKen23, and for now it's a secret until he decides to spill the beans


----------



## DarKen23

h34r:





brunk said:


> loquah said:
> 
> 
> > Who's Ken and what DO you have in the works?
> ...


----------



## brunk

Hey Doc, I can't help myself but I'm sure others would be interested in this as well. Could there be a snowflake's chance in hell that you would entertain a balanced tube amp offering by chance?


----------



## Steve Eddy

:rolleyes:





brunk said:


> Hey Doc, I can't help myself but I'm sure others would be interested in this as well. Could there be a snowflake's chance in hell that you would entertain a balanced tube amp offering by chance?




Just get a couple of Cracks and bridge them.

se


----------



## brunk

steve eddy said:


> Just get a couple of Cracks and bridge them.
> 
> se


 
 Ahh yes, great idea!


----------



## Steve Eddy

brunk said:


> Ahh yes, great idea!




I thought so. Any reason a Crack can't be bridged? That's what most "balanced" amps are, just pairs of amps bridged and put in a single chassis.

se


----------



## brunk

steve eddy said:


> I thought so. Any reason a Crack can't be bridged? That's what most "balanced" amps are, just pairs of amps bridged and put in a single chassis.
> 
> se


 
 Yeah thinking further about it now, It would be very nice to have a pre-fab single chassis option that would be more pleasing to the eye.  It would also open up the possibility to sell many different types of upgrades and addons too. After all, Doc has to make some greenbacks for it to be a viable option


----------



## Steve Eddy

Yeah, they're built on a simple plate so easy peasy. Just size accordingly. Unless for some reason Cracks can't be bridged.

se


----------



## brunk

steve eddy said:


> Yeah, they're built on a simple plate so easy peasy. Just size accordingly. Unless for some reason Cracks can't be bridged.
> 
> se


 
 Yes very true. I'm still a newb with amplifier design, but the only issue that i can foresee would be the wiring of the Crack's MagneQuest transformers i suppose? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What would be your logic that they may not be able to be bridged?


----------



## Steve Eddy

brunk said:


> Yes very true. I'm still a newb with amplifier design, but the only issue that i can foresee would be the wiring of the Crack's MagneQuest transformers i suppose?   What would be your logic that they may not be able to be bridged?




MQ transformers? I thought the Crack was an OTL design and didn't use output transformers?

Personally I've never really been a fan of the whole "balanced" craze. I mean, a headphone doesn't know a "balanced" amp from a hole in the ground and behaves no differently. Bridging is nice if you need to get maximum power from a limited supply voltage, say when using batteries, but if you can specify whatever supply voltage you want, it becomes rather pointless. And when you bridge, you pay the price of higher noise, higher distortion and higher output impedance.

se


----------



## FraGGleR

brunk said:


> Hey Doc, I can't help myself but I'm sure others would be interested in this as well. Could there be a snowflake's chance in hell that you would entertain a balanced tube amp offering by chance?


 
 Both the S.E.X. and their top of the line Mainline can output balanced.  As Steve Eddy can attest, there are many different definitions of balanced with regards to amps. and many different opinions on where in the chain is best to move to a balanced signal or if it is even worth it.
  
 I don't understand the technicalities, but listening to my S.E.X. balanced sounds better to me.  Since it has single ended input and uses transformers to create a balanced output, it isn't necessarily the "correct" way like a dual mono amp, but it sounds noticeably different from the single ended output so I have kept it in the position.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Does the S.E.X. tie signal ground to the bottom of the output transformer secondary?

se


----------



## clowkoy

steve eddy said:


> Does the S.E.X. tie signal ground to the bottom of the output transformer secondary?
> 
> se


 

 I'm not sure what you mean but this is how the SEX is wired for balanced operation.


----------



## brunk

steve eddy said:


> MQ transformers? I thought the Crack was an OTL design and didn't use output transformers?
> 
> Personally I've never really been a fan of the whole "balanced" craze. I mean, a headphone doesn't know a "balanced" amp from a hole in the ground and behaves no differently. Bridging is nice if you need to get maximum power from a limited supply voltage, say when using batteries, but if you can specify whatever supply voltage you want, it becomes rather pointless. And when you bridge, you pay the price of higher noise, higher distortion and higher output impedance.
> 
> se


 
  
  


fraggler said:


> Both the S.E.X. and their top of the line Mainline can output balanced.  As Steve Eddy can attest, there are many different definitions of balanced with regards to amps. and many different opinions on where in the chain is best to move to a balanced signal or if it is even worth it.
> 
> I don't understand the technicalities, but listening to my S.E.X. balanced sounds better to me.  Since it has single ended input and uses transformers to create a balanced output, it isn't necessarily the "correct" way like a dual mono amp, but it sounds noticeably different from the single ended output so I have kept it in the position.


 
  
  


clowkoy said:


> I'm not sure what you mean but this is how the SEX is wired for balanced operation.


 
 That's correct Steve Eddy. I also agree with the the points you've stated about "balanced craze", but I still think it could turn out to be a nice piece of kit that could be highly customized to taste and fill a gap in the BH product line. I think us four are just getting lost in eachothers' interpretations of what we're typing lol, speech is so much better for this type of conversation


----------



## Steve Eddy

clowkoy said:


> I'm not sure what you mean but this is how the SEX is wired for balanced operation.




Oh, ok. With the virtual center tap made using the resistors, then it would indeed be balanced. You can't assume a balanced out just because the amp has an output transformer because typically on single ended amps like that, the signal ground is tied to the bottom of the secondary winding.

se


----------



## Steve Eddy

brunk said:


> That's correct Steve Eddy. I also agree with the the points you've stated about "balanced craze", but I still think it could turn out to be a nice piece of kit that could be highly customized to taste and fill a gap in the BH product line. I think us four are just getting lost in eachothers' interpretations of what we're typing lol, speech is so much better for this type of conversation


 
  
 Yeah, selling twice as many Cracks would certainly make Doc's day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 se


----------



## brunk

steve eddy said:


> Yeah, selling twice as many Cracks would certainly make Doc's day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Steve Eddy

HA! Thanks. Made my day. 

se


----------



## brunk

steve eddy said:


> HA! Thanks. Made my day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hehe


----------



## amcananey

That's awesome. Too funny....


----------



## JamieMcC

lol that cracked me up as well thought I would see how it looks as a avatar for a day or two.


----------



## Loquah

Great idea! We should get all Crack owners to take this avatar for a week.


----------



## DarKen23




----------



## Steve Eddy

se


----------



## brunk

jamiemcc said:


> lol that cracked me up as well thought I would see how it looks as a avatar for a day or two.


 
 Hah! That makes a hilarious avatar


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


>


 

  
  


steve eddy said:


> se


 
 Yikes!


----------



## Doc B.

You guys have me scratching my head. Two Crack kits with Speedball upgrades to make a differential amp would cost nearly as much as a Mainline, which is an even better sounding amp and has a balanced output option. True balanced, not differential - they are two different things.


----------



## brunk

doc b. said:


> You guys have me scratching my head. Two Crack kits with Speedball upgrades to make a differential amp would cost nearly as much as a Mainline, which is an even better sounding amp and has a balanced output option. True balanced, not differential - they are two different things.


 
 I think at this point we are having more fun at entertaining the thought of it lol. Thanks for pointing that out though Doc


----------



## DarKen23

steve eddy said:


> se


More than happy to..












To THAT at least. Dear god, way to start off a Monday morning.


----------



## Armaegis

doc b. said:


> You guys have me scratching my head. Two Crack kits with Speedball upgrades to make a differential amp would cost nearly as much as a Mainline, which is an even better sounding amp and has a balanced output option. True balanced, not differential - they are two different things.


 
  
 I know balanced technically refers to matching impedances on the signal lines.
  
 Is a differential amp inherently balanced?


----------



## brunk

armaegis said:


> I know balanced technically refers to matching impedances on the signal lines.
> 
> Is a differential amp inherently balanced?


 
 I like the explanation of differences between the two in this article
http://www.hairballaudio.com/blog/balanced-differential/
  
 EDIT: They also have some pretty neat audio transformers and misc. gear too in their store.


----------



## Steve Eddy

darken23 said:


> To THAT at least. Dear god, way to start off a Monday morning.




Sorry. Was feeling particularly smartassish this morning. 

se


----------



## brunk

steve eddy said:


> Sorry. Was feeling particularly *smartassish *this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Pun intended of course


----------



## Steve Eddy

armaegis said:


> I know balanced technically refers to matching impedances on the signal lines.
> 
> Is a differential amp inherently balanced?




No. Differential amps can be balanced or unbalanced. However balance is required if you want to achieve maximum common mode noise rejection. There is a lot of confusion because the first "balanced" headphone amps were never promoted on the basis of common mode rejection. They were just two amplifier channels bridged together which while technically "balanced" we're not differential so any notion of common mode rejection was moot anyway. But the term "balanced" was used anyway and that's how we ended up where we are. Some amps are balanced in the traditional sense (balanced with differential inputs) but most are what should more appropriately be called "bridged."

se


----------



## Steve Eddy

brunk said:


> Pun intended of course




It was only intended in (get ready for it) *ahem* hindsight. 

se


----------



## amcananey

steve eddy said:


> It was only intended in (get ready for it) *ahem* hindsight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Oh, gawd. I love it (the wordplay, not the other thing...).


----------



## Steve Eddy

amcananey said:


> Oh, gawd. I love it (the wordplay, not the other thing...).




Gotta give credit to brunk who gave me that beautiful set up. Thanks, brunk! 

Ok, enough of this silliness. Back to drugs, sex and more drugs.

se


----------



## GrindingThud

Crack monoblocks?


----------



## Zashoomin

doc b. said:


> You guys have me scratching my head. Two Crack kits with Speedball upgrades to make a differential amp would cost nearly as much as a Mainline, which is an even better sounding amp and has a balanced output option. True balanced, not differential - they are two different things.


 
 Hey doc if the Mainline is truely balanced than why doesn't it have balanced inputs?


----------



## Doc B.

Because the only place I have found balanced connection to seem to make a difference is driving speakers and headphones. To do balanced in single ended circuits the cleanest way requires transformers, and I think they tend to mess with the bass dynamics. So I am not that big on putting one in the input of a preamp just to run a balanced cable to it. But for some reason that I cannot explain I hear tighter, more punchy bass when the speaker output is wired balanced.


----------



## Steve Eddy

doc b. said:


> To do balanced in single ended circuits the cleanest way requires transformers, and I think they tend to mess with the bass dynamics.




What trannies have you tried? I've been using Jensen's JT-11P1s and CineMag's CMLI-15/15Bs for years and have found them to have excellent bass performance (the -3dB for both are well below 1Hz).



> So I am not that big on putting one in the input of a preamp just to run a balanced cable to it.




The beauty part about good input transformers is you don't need to feed them with a balanced cable or even a balanced source. They provide excellent common-mode rejection even from unbalanced sources. A rare case of where you can have your cake and eat (most of) it too. 

se


----------



## mcandmar

loquah said:


> I might be mistaken, but I think we're not meant to post about that site. you might want to edit that post, JamieMcC


 
  
 Some things cannot be unseen >.<


----------



## DarKen23

LOL, sorry--Im on a crack binge


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> LOL, sorry--Im on a crack binge


 
 lol


----------



## DarKen23

brunk said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL, sorry--Im on a crack binge
> ...


 
 what the heck? Up doing projects adam?


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> what the heck? Up doing projects adam?


 
 Hah! I will be soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Need my crack and coffee first...


----------



## DarKen23

brunk said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > what the heck? Up doing projects adam?
> ...


 
 LOL!! Alright guys, enough--its really starting to get out of hand!


----------



## modaybyday

My mainline build is coming along - currently finishing off the last half dozen or so resistors in the coarse attenuator.


----------



## Loquah

Extremely jealous!


----------



## DarKen23

loquah said:


> Extremely jealous!


*Chanting "c4s"*


----------



## wewewho77

@Loquah: Will S.E.X pairs well with HE500? I've heard it didn't do quite well with LCD2. Thanks


----------



## FraGGleR

wewewho77 said:


> @Loquah: Will S.E.X pairs well with HE500? I've heard it didn't do quite well with LCD2. Thanks


 
 I thought it did very well with the LCD-2s when I owned them.  They did well with the HE-500s as well.  The S.E.X. is quite versatile and sounded good with everything except IEM's, where there was too high a noise floor and almost zero play on the volume control.


----------



## Zashoomin

wewewho77 said:


> @Loquah: Will S.E.X pairs well with HE500? I've heard it didn't do quite well with LCD2. Thanks


 
 I personally like it with the LCD2's.  With the 3's though it wasn't all that great.


----------



## Loquah

zashoomin said:


> I personally like it with the LCD2's.  With the 3's though it wasn't all that great.




What was the problem with the 3s?



wewewho77 said:


> @Loquah: Will S.E.X pairs well with HE500? I've heard it didn't do quite well with LCD2. Thanks




I hope so. That's one of the key reasons I bought it (for HEs or LCDs). In other words, I can't answer that yet wewewho, but I trust the opinions of others here.


----------



## Compassionator

What impedance were the S.E.X. amps configured for?  And do any of you have the impedance selector switch installed? 
  
 Also, I believe that there is an optional transformer that allows for a 128ohm impedence, which would make for a difference when driving high impedance headphones.  Does anybody have that option?


----------



## Zashoomin

@Loquah  I just found that the buzzing was more apparent with the 3's and therefore more distracting.  also I felt like the soundstage could have been bigger and lastly a bit more base slam.  With the 2's though it was fantastic.  I can't wait to try the mainline with the 3's though.  I bet it sounds amazing.  
  
 Quote:


compassionator said:


> What impedance were the S.E.X. amps configured for?  And do any of you have the impedance selector switch installed?
> 
> Also, I believe that there is an optional transformer that allows for a 128ohm impedence, which would make for a difference when driving high impedance headphones.  Does anybody have that option?


 
  
 Ya I have an impedance selector switch on mine.  If you don't have the switch than you can pick 4, 8, 16 or 32ohms. With the switch I can change the impedence any time I want.  I think that 32ohms will work just fine with higher impedence headphones to be honest.


----------



## wewewho77

Thanks guys for the info. You're all very helpful.


----------



## mcandmar

I'm curious, does anybody run the S.E.X. with Grado cans?
  
 For those DIY minded, is there any reason why you cant fit two headphone sockets wired for different impedance's?


----------



## DarKen23

zashoomin said:


> @Loquah  I just found that the buzzing was more apparent with the 3's and therefore more distracting.  also I felt like the soundstage could have been bigger and lastly a bit more base slam.  With the 2's though it was fantastic.  I can't wait to try the mainline with the 3's though.  I bet it sounds amazing.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
 If im not mistaken, tube amps are usually said to fair better with higher impedance headphones, right? So technically, it wouldnt be an ideal pairing with the LCD lineup---I assume this impedance upgrade addresses those areas?


----------



## amcananey

That's true of OTL (output transformerless) tube amps such as the Bottlehead Crack. WOT (with output transformer) amps like the S.E.X. can work very well with low-impedance headphones. The S.E.X. output transformer can be hard-wired for 4, 8, 16 or 32 Ohms. There is also an impedance switch available that lets you switch between those four output impedance settings. The switch doesn't make the lower output impedance possible, it just lets you change between various settings. It is the output transformers that produces the lower output impedance.
  
 Best regards,
 Adam


----------



## DarKen23

amcananey said:


> That's true of OTL (output transformerless) tube amps such as the Bottlehead Crack. WOT (with output transformer) amps like the S.E.X. can work very well with low-impedance headphones. The S.E.X. output transformer can be hard-wired for 4, 8, 16 or 32 Ohms. There is also an impedance switch available that lets you switch between those four output impedance settings. The switch doesn't make the lower output impedance possible, it just lets you change between various settings. It is the output transformers that produces the lower output impedance.
> 
> Best regards,
> Adam


 
 Thank you kindly. That was exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## Loquah

Well the Quickie is built, but the kit and the build beat the chassis so I wanted to share my current improvised setup courtesy of the shipping carton the Quickie came in...
  

  
 Definitely not a permanent solution, but I thought it was worthy of a giggle!


----------



## audiowize

steve eddy said:


> What trannies have you tried? I've been using Jensen's JT-11P1s and CineMag's CMLI-15/15Bs for years and have found them to have excellent bass performance (the -3dB for both are well below 1Hz).
> The beauty part about good input transformers is you don't need to feed them with a balanced cable or even a balanced source. They provide excellent common-mode rejection even from unbalanced sources. A rare case of where you can have your cake and eat (most of) it too.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's important to consider the limitations that input transformers can impose on potential source components.  Sure, the CMLI-15/15B's may be good to -3dB at 1Hz, but from what source impedance? 
  
 On the balanced/differential Crack thought - I built one in 2008 http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tubediy/messages/13/137057.html  While initially somewhat interesting, I didn't like it nearly as much as a standard Crack.


----------



## Steve Eddy

audiowize said:


> It's important to consider the limitations that input transformers can impose on potential source components.  Sure, the CMLI-15/15B's may be good to -3dB at 1Hz, but from what source impedance?




They'll easily meet that spec with source impedances upwards of 1,200 ohms. But no, you wouldn't want to pair it with an asthmatic output stage based on say a 12AX7 or something.

se


----------



## Loquah

I just added a new DAC (Matrix X-Sabre to my desktop rig and I'm noticing that it has lessened the gap between the S.E.X. and the Crack. I wonder if the Crack scales better than the S.E.X. somehow?
  
 I'll try a few more tracks, but it seems like I still prefer the S.E.X. by just the slightest of margins now...


----------



## DarKen23

loquah said:


> I just added a new DAC (Matrix X-Sabre to my desktop rig and I'm noticing that it has lessened the gap between the S.E.X. and the Crack. I wonder if the Crack scales better than the S.E.X. somehow?
> 
> I'll try a few more tracks, but it seems like I still prefer the S.E.X. by just the slightest of margins now...


 
 VERY interesting. Please continue to keep us updated. Thank you much


----------



## Makuta11

Subscribing! I am about to start this build in a month or so


----------



## brunk

makuta11 said:


> Subscribing! I am about to start this build in a month or so


 
 Cheers!


----------



## Loquah

I've spent about a week now with my new DAC paired with the Crack and S.E.X.
  
 Here's the update I've just added to the first two review posts...
  
DAC Upgrade Update - 27th October 2013 A recent upgrade to my DAC has brought some very interesting changes.
 
The new DAC is a Matrix X-Sabre based on the very detailed ES9018 Sabre DAC chip. The extra separation and clarity offered by this DAC (compared to the previous Audio-gd NFB-5.2) has brought the Crack (with Speedball) very close to the S.E.X. in terms of overall sound performance. It's so close now that I could actually be completely happy with either amp when driving the Beyerdynamic T1s. For lower impedance cans, the S.E.X. is still the only choice due to the Crack's high output impedance, but with high impedance Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser cans I would probably choose the Crack simply because it is cheaper and still excellent.
 
I think the key to this change is the signature of the DACs. The NFB-5.2 was slightly warmer than the X-Sabre. The X-Sabre is still musical, but a little closer to neutral than the NFB-5.2. The result is a cleaner sound from the Crack - still warm and rich, but not smoothed over at all. The S.E.X. can sound a little dry at times in comparison which makes the Crack a bit more seductive - it soothes the ears with detailed, mellow tunes while the S.E.X. presents oodles of details and clarity, but isn't always soothing.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

I had the same opinion of the Crack when I sampled a PS Audio DL III against my current Nuforce HDP.  Now I didn't have the S.E.X to compare to but I'm glad you find the difference between the two narrowing with upstream equipment upgrades.


----------



## Loquah

Yeah. I'm also looking forward to a meet here in Melbourne soon because I'm curious to get other people's takes on the Crack vs S.E.X. question. I'll setup some listening tests to see which amp is preferred overall.


----------



## mcandmar

That DAC is one sexy bit of kit.  Are you running a fully balanced setup on the S.E.X. amp?


----------



## olegausany

I just traded my Crack and have S.E.X now but have just one question. I know it uses 6DN7 tubes but the tubes I got have no labeling on its base just 6DN7 on the glass and that they are made in USA but was told that those are not the tubes included in kit but are upgraded ones. I went to couple of tubes online stores and they just say various brands for the same price per tube.I also checked eBay but there usually single tubes not matched pairs. Any suggestions?


----------



## Loquah

mcandmar said:


> That DAC is one sexy bit of kit.  Are you running a fully balanced setup on the S.E.X. amp?


 
  
 No, just single-ended. I'm contemplating fully balanced at some stage (perhaps with the Matrix Quattro amp), but at the moment SE is fine.
  


olegausany said:


> I just traded my Crack and have S.E.X now but have just one question. I know it uses 6DN7 tubes but the tubes I got have no labeling on its base just 6DN7 on the glass and that they are made in USA but was told that those are not the tubes included in kit but are upgraded ones. I went to couple of tubes online stores and they just say various brands for the same price per tube.I also checked eBay but there usually single tubes not matched pairs. Any suggestions?


 
  
 As far as I've found, there is no significant difference between any of the 6DN7 tubes out there. The only "upgrade" might be in buying a matched set, but that's really all.


----------



## olegausany

loquah said:


> No, just single-ended. I'm contemplating fully balanced at some stage (perhaps with the Matrix Quattro amp), but at the moment SE is fine.
> 
> 
> As far as I've found, there is no significant difference between any of the 6DN7 tubes out there. The only "upgrade" might be in buying a matched set, but that's really all.


 

 Thanks for so easy answer. I will buy few pairs to make sure I have extras cause I see S.E.X. with HD800 and Q-Audio cable as and of the game setup simce by changing just cable I will be able to use headphones with speakers taps


----------



## mcandmar

olegausany said:


> Thanks for so easy answer. I will buy few pairs to make sure I have extras cause I see S.E.X. with HD800 and Q-Audio cable as and of the game setup simce by changing just cable I will be able to use headphones with speakers taps


 

 Searching the Bottlehead forum i get the impression there really is no difference between different brands, except for a post from Doc.B saying the TungSol tubes sounded slightly different, he didn't say better or worse, just different.  Some people also claim the coin base variants sounds slightly different.
  
 I bought a spare set of NOS Sylvania Black Plates for mine, just because they look nice


----------



## olegausany

Thanks for information , I will look for them and if the matching pairs are available I will get them


----------



## FraGGleR

olegausany said:


> Thanks for information , I will look for them and if the matching pairs are available I will get them


 
 Thetubecenter.com will match tubes for you for just a couple bucks.  I got some tubes from them, as the tubes I got originally caused a slight channel imbalance.  And from what I understand there aren't really any upgrade tubes for the kit.  These tubes are supposed to be really hearty, which I like, since they were originally designed to be inside TVs.


----------



## shdl83

Does the Crack run well with HD600s?


----------



## Loquah

Yes. Beautifully well. The smoothness and punch from the Crack balances nicely with the presentation of the HD600s - match made in heaven!


----------



## amcananey

shdl83 said:


> Does the Crack run well with HD600s?



 


Is the pope Catholic?


----------



## shdl83

loquah said:


> Yes. Beautifully well. The smoothness and punch from the Crack balances nicely with the presentation of the HD600s - match made in heaven!


 
  What DAC do you recommend with that pairing?


----------



## Loquah

shdl83 said:


> What DAC do you recommend with that pairing?




The one im selling! 

Jokes aside, the best option is something pretty neutral and clean. The Crack is beautifully smooth so you don't need added warmth, just clean and neutral sound.

What's your budget and main source? (ie do you need USB and 192kHz?)


----------



## amcananey

Nobody needs 192kHz. Can you name 10 albums that you would actually want to listen to that are available in a format over 96/24?


----------



## Compassionator

Hey Loquah, were you planning to do a comparison between the S.E.X. + C4S upgrade and the Crack?


----------



## DarKen23

amcananey said:


> Nobody needs 192kHz. Can you name 10 albums that you would actually want to listen to that are available in a format over 96/24?


Actually I can. 


Unrelated to that ^: I had plans for the S.E.X but didn't follow through with it in the end. I'm glad to hear that the crack is no slouch in comparison while possibly being my choice between the 2.


----------



## Loquah

amcananey said:


> Nobody needs 192kHz. Can you name 10 albums that you would actually want to listen to that are available in a format over 96/24?


 
  

Muddy Waters - Folk Singer
Donny Hathaway - Live
Arne Domnerus - Jazz at the Pawnshop
Michael Jackson - History
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
  
 That's it from my collection at the moment, but there's great stuff coming out fairly regularly now and even though the difference between 96 & 192 is minimal, I tend to prefer the extra sense of space created in the higher res recordings. Is it a necessity? No. Nice to have? Yes.


----------



## amcananey

Were any of those albums originally recorded on high-rez equipment? (Before you answer, bear in mind that just because something is analog doesn't mean it is necessarily high resolution.)

A high resolution version of a standard resolution recording doesn't provide you with anything other than a bigger file. You can't create data that was never there in the first place (meaning in the original recording).


----------



## Loquah

That's kind of true, but analogue recordings capture ALL the information that's picked up by the microphones and recording equipment. That information then gets "averaged" out during sampling which is why a 44.1kHz sample is never as good as the same content sampled at a higher rate. Because of that, a good analogue recording will translate to good hi-res files.

Donny Hathaway Live isn't a great recording, but it still sounds better in hi-res. More space, more ambience, same details, etc.


----------



## amcananey

loquah said:


> That's kind of true, but analogue recordings capture ALL the information that's picked up by the microphones and recording equipment.




The important part of that statement isn't the "ALL", it's "the information that's picked up by the microphones and recording equipment".

If you capture all of the information recorded by a poor microphone and recording equipment, then you still don't have as much information as a 44.1 kHz sample made using modern equipment. 

Moreover, at some level analog stops being continuous. Think about film photography. It's analog, right? Well, sure. But if you really magnify it, you realize that film basically consists of colored particles (grain) that are discrete, even if they overlap. If you then performed a high resolution digital scan of that film, you could easily capture all of the information on the film, even though you are using digital sampling technology to copy an analog medium. Moreover, a relatively low resolution digital camera can capture more information than an ultra-high resolution scan of a film picture taken at the same scene. 

In the audio world, the principle is the same. At some point, the original tape masters stop being continuous. The tape consists of magnetized particles, which are discrete (even if overlapping). A high-resolution digital copy of the original tape master can capture ALL of the information on the tape. The question is: how high does the sampling rate need to be to capture all of the information? I don't know the answer in the audio world, but it is probably lower than you think. Moreover, I suspect that a modern 44.1 kHz recording can capture more information than a 192 kHz copy of an analog original. To the extent that high resolution offers real benefits in the audio world, I think that (a) it is more in the bit depth, than the sample rate, and (b) 96 kHz probably is enough to get you all of the benefits there are to be had.


----------



## Loquah

Possibly. The question I guess is, what effective "sample rate" is created by the grains / particles in an analogue system? I suppose it might vary depending on the type / brand, etc. Also, I didn't mention bit-depth, but I agree that this might be more important.
  
 I'm not a hi-res snob and actually favour a number of lo-res recordings when I'm critically listening because they are just beautifully produced. That said, I have compared lo-res and hi-res versions of the same albums and often find the hi-res to be preferable, but we're way off topic and what really matters here is how good all of it sounds through the Bottlehead amps!


----------



## Armaegis

Just thought I'd mention that another (HUGE) factor is that albums that have been re-released are often remastered as well. We'd hope that it's a good remaster, but that's another matter entirely.


----------



## brunk

I agree that it definitely is the bit depth that's more important. Remasters are getting better as technology advances, but what I still want to see is the major labels digitizing their analog master vaults and opening it to the masses. That flies in the face of buying the same album 20 times though....sigh


----------



## amcananey

Yeah, I'm just reacting to the tendency when buying a DAC to focus on the maximum resolution it can handle. I think people focus on that because it is a number they can easily point to, and higher resolution always has to be better, right? I followed that thinking myself when buying DACs, only to realize that...none of the music that interests me is available in high resolution format. HD Tracks, etc. are basically a wasteland as far as I'm concerned. I've managed to buy exactly two high-rez albums that moderately interest me. I also compared them to the redbook versions, but I didn't notice any differences. Anyway, my point is just that I wouldn't make maximum sample rate a gating item when choosing a DAC, nor would I spend significantly more just so that I can play 5-10 albums in high-rez format that are also available in other formats.


----------



## brunk

amcananey said:


> Yeah, I'm just reacting to the tendency when buying a DAC to focus on the maximum resolution it can handle. I think people focus on that because it is a number they can easily point to, and higher resolution always has to be better, right? I followed that thinking myself when buying DACs, only to realize that...none of the music that interests me is available in high resolution format. HD Tracks, etc. are basically a wasteland as far as I'm concerned. I've managed to buy exactly two high-rez albums that moderately interest me. I also compared them to the redbook versions, but I didn't notice any differences. Anyway, my point is just that I wouldn't make maximum sample rate a gating item when choosing a DAC, nor would I spend significantly more just so that I can play 5-10 albums in high-rez format that are also available in other formats.


 
 Yep I agree, but I have 2TB of 24bit material myself. I guess I'm an exception lol. I'm actually in the process of looking at different TDA154x DACs with possibly a butterworth filter for an excellent 16/44.1 NOS DAC that will give off that nice smooth, analog, vintage sound to go with my horns. Any products or DIY designs come to your mind by chance?


----------



## amcananey

I'm not a big believer in differences among DACs, but I've managed to convince myself that the best DACs I've heard are Audio-Gd DACs based on PCM1704UK chips. I have 3 of them, one of which can play high-rez files. No idea if that answers your question, though!


----------



## Armaegis

I've read some arguments somewhere (the "internet") that higher bit/sampling rates can actually increase the amount of noise/distortion/blahblahblah due to the way digital filters/doohickeys work.
  
 And hey, I've cooked some opamps in my time with uncontrolled oscillations before shoving a filter cap in there. Just pretending I know what I'm talking about


----------



## Armaegis

amcananey said:


> I'm not a big believer in differences among DACs,


 
  
  
 While I do feel that DACs can make a difference, I am also of the opinion that they hit the wall of diminishing returns the fastest. The "source first" crowd has always puzzled me a bit. Why spend $1000 on a dac when you have a $100 headphone/speakers?


----------



## Loquah

armaegis said:


> Just thought I'd mention that another (HUGE) factor is that albums that have been re-released are often remastered as well. We'd hope that it's a good remaster, but that's another matter entirely.


 
  
 Agree. I just went through my duplicate tracks from various Dire Straits albums and the Sultans of Swing (Best of) Compilation was noticeably poorer than some of their older, original recordings
  
 = not so good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


amcananey said:


> Yeah, I'm just reacting to the tendency when buying a DAC to focus on the maximum resolution it can handle. I think people focus on that because it is a number they can easily point to, and higher resolution always has to be better, right? I followed that thinking myself when buying DACs, only to realize that...none of the music that interests me is available in high resolution format. HD Tracks, etc. are basically a wasteland as far as I'm concerned. I've managed to buy exactly two high-rez albums that moderately interest me. I also compared them to the redbook versions, but I didn't notice any differences. Anyway, my point is just that I wouldn't make maximum sample rate a gating item when choosing a DAC, nor would I spend significantly more just so that I can play 5-10 albums in high-rez format that are also available in other formats.


 
  
 Agree. I chose my DAC based on the fact that it is a well-reviewed, musical sounding, but highly resolving DAC that just happens to do everything up to DSD (which I will never use). I personally like to have a DAC that can go up to 192kHz, but it's all a matter of preference and I agree it should not be a sole deciding factor or gate to choosing the right DAC.
  
 Brunk, you might want to check out this thread over at the Bottlehead forums: http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,5077.0.html


----------



## brunk

armaegis said:


> While I do feel that DACs can make a difference, I am also of the opinion that they hit the wall of diminishing returns the fastest. The "source first" crowd has always puzzled me a bit. Why spend $1000 on a dac when you have a $100 headphone/speakers?


 
 Well I think it's the "D" part of a DAC that hits that wall really fast, but it's the filtering afterwards. Each brand has different default filters and the "A"nalog section is where the audible differences are at. All IMO of course


----------



## mcandmar

armaegis said:


> While I do feel that DACs can make a difference, I am also of the opinion that they hit the wall of diminishing returns the fastest. The "source first" crowd has always puzzled me a bit. Why spend $1000 on a dac when you have a $100 headphone/speakers?


 
  
 Poop trickles down hill you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm looking for a new DAC at the moment and can fully understand your argument, i can see how a good DAC can cost $4-500 in parts, maybe 1k fully built in a pimping chassis.  Beyond that i just dont get.


----------



## brunk

mcandmar said:


> Poop trickles down hill you know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well you have to pay for the dude's mortgage who built it, along with his vacation to Aspen too


----------



## Loquah

Of course, the upcoming Bottlehead DAC might bring a whole new take on the DAC scene with some DIY customisation and the like. It'll be interesting to see where it's priced...


----------



## brunk

loquah said:


> Of course, the upcoming Bottlehead DAC might bring a whole new take on the DAC scene with some DIY customisation and the like. It'll be interesting to see where it's priced...


 
 Yeah I would love to learn about analog filters and stuff, so I'm hoping it a very tweakable-friendly DAC kit.


----------



## mcandmar

mcandmar said:


> Searching the Bottlehead forum i get the impression there really is no difference between different brands, except for a post from Doc.B saying the TungSol tubes sounded slightly different, he didn't say better or worse, just different.  Some people also claim the coin base variants sounds slightly different.
> 
> I bought a spare set of NOS Sylvania Black Plates for mine, just because they look nice


 
  
 Alright managed to score a set of Sylvania coin base tubes so i will have a set of regular and coinbase to compare against each other.  Will update with my findings if there is any difference....


----------



## brunk

Calling all bottleheads
  
*'Free Integration upgrade with the next five Reduction phono preamp kit ordered'*
  
  
 Sorry if i beat you to it Doc


----------



## Loquah

mcandmar said:


> Alright managed to score a set of Sylvania coin base tubes so i will have a set of regular and coinbase to compare against each other.  Will update with my findings if there is any difference....




Awesome. I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## ffivaz

brunk said:


> Calling all bottleheads
> 
> *'Free Integration upgrade with the next five Reduction phono preamp kit ordered'*
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can only encourage everyone seeking a phono preamp to have a look at the Reduction kit. I have it since june and haven't played a CD since


----------



## Loquah

Received some matched 3S4 tubes today for my Quickie - not so much because I expected matching to be important, but because I was getting a nasty hum anytime I went anywhere near one of the 2 supplied tubes.
  
 The new tubes have rendered the Quickie completely silent and I've now added it to my signal chain thusly:
  
 PC --> X-Sabre DAC --> Quickie --> S.E.X. --> Beyer T1s
  
 The sound is magnificent. Rich, full and smooth. Not quite as detailed as a direct connection to the S.E.X., but overall more enjoyable I think. I'd probably remove the Quickie for analytical listening, but think I favour it for general enjoyment listening. The bass is richer and the sound from the T1s is completely fatigue free.
  
 As a bonus, the tubes I received are Australian made!!
  

  
  
 Now if only my aluminium chassis would show up so I can take some sexy photos and formally review the mighty Quickie!


----------



## Dopaminer

Really happy to join this thread, as I am planning a tube amp DIY session in the new year, my first ever so maybe the Crack, but really want to jump in to the Mainline. 
  
 Excellent write ups on the Crack and Sex at the beginning of the thread - thanks man!    
  
 Really looking forward to the Mainline review. . . . 
  
 d


----------



## Loquah

dopaminer said:


> Really happy to join this thread, as I am planning a tube amp DIY session in the new year, my first ever so maybe the Crack, but really want to jump in to the Mainline.
> 
> Excellent write ups on the Crack and Sex at the beginning of the thread - thanks man!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Dopaminer. I've been a bit slow on the Quickie review too because I'm still trying to decide my exact impressions of it. It's a great bit of gear, but I'm just not sure of it's place in my particular setup...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

dopaminer said:


> Really happy to join this thread, as I am planning a tube amp DIY session in the new year, my first ever so maybe the Crack, but really want to jump in to the Mainline.
> 
> Excellent write ups on the Crack and Sex at the beginning of the thread - thanks man!
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Crack is oodles of fun to build!
  

  
 Oh, yeah, it sounds pretty good too!


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Received some matched 3S4 tubes today for my Quickie - not so much because I expected matching to be important, but because I was getting a nasty hum anytime I went anywhere near one of the 2 supplied tubes.
> 
> The new tubes have rendered the Quickie completely silent and I've now added it to my signal chain thusly:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Louqah  that's very interesting, looking forward to reading your further impressions on the combo. I was very tempted a just after I had ordered the Crack to phone up Bottlehead and ask if they would be able to add the Quickie to the order prior to shipping.
  
 Might we see your thoughts on a PC --> X-Sabre DAC --> Quickie --> Crack. --> Beyer T1s I for one would be very interested in reading your impression of the results.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Louqah  that's very interesting, looking forward to reading your further impressions on the combo. I was very tempted a just after I had ordered the Crack to phone up Bottlehead and ask if they would be able to add the Quickie to the order prior to shipping.
> 
> Might we see your thoughts on a PC --> X-Sabre DAC --> Quickie --> Crack. --> Beyer T1s I for one would be very interested in reading your impression of the results.


 
  
 I spent more time with the Quickie today and it has an awesome midrange presentation. More treble roll-off than the S.E.X., but probably similar to the Crack (depending on tubes). It makes the midrange from the S.E.X. absolutely magical and holographic, but at the expense of a little clarity and air. What surprised me was the pairing with the Crack. I'm currently using the Crack with a straight brown base GEC 6AS7G and a Tungsram E80CC up front. I expected the smooth sound of the Crack to get smoother (too smooth) with the Quickie, but I really liked the results.
  
 It's hard to clearly describe what happens. I think it defines the stage and image a bit better with the Quickie, but possibly loses a touch of space in the stage. Overall clarity and definition in the upper mids might be slightly stronger with the Quickie added too.
  
 Do we need Quickies with our Bottlehead amps? Probably not. Is it a great kit that's worth the money and time to then have an extra way to tweak your system? Hell yeah!


----------



## shipsupt

The Quickie was an essential add-on for my setup to use with my Seduction phono stage. The two have been a great combination.

So much so that I'm working on an upgrade to both; An Eros and a BeePre will take their place.


----------



## Loquah

shipsupt said:


> The Quickie was an essential add-on for my setup to use with my Seduction phono stage. The two have been a great combination.
> 
> So much so that I'm working on an upgrade to both; An Eros and a BeePre will take their place.


 
  
 Nice. Please share your thoughts!!


----------



## Loquah

The Mainline kit is here from Bottlehead
  

 (photobomb from Lisa, not included in package)
  
 In the same package was a Quickie PJCCS upgrade and S.E.X. C4S upgrade. I have a busy weekend ahead!!
  
 The Mainline won't get started just yet because I need to get the chassis plate anodised... blue this time...


----------



## wewewho77

Can't wait for your upcoming review Lachlan!
I haven't pull the trigger just yet. Maybe I should do Mainline instead of S.E.X?


----------



## Loquah

wewewho77 said:


> Can't wait for your upcoming review Lachlan!
> I haven't pull the trigger just yet. Maybe I should do Mainline instead of S.E.X?


 
  
 Hold tight wewewho! Quickie upgrade tonight, S.E.X. C4S over the weekend, Mainline in weeks to come...
  
 I should warn you though, it might be 2-3 weeks before the Mainline's done because we have a local meet here next weekend and the Xbox One is arriving with a copies of Forza and NBA 2K14!


----------



## wewewho77

loquah said:


> Hold tight wewewho! Quickie upgrade tonight, S.E.X. C4S over the weekend, Mainline in weeks to come...
> 
> I should warn you though, it might be 2-3 weeks before the Mainline's done because we have a local meet here next weekend and the Xbox One is arriving with a copies of Forza and NBA 2K14! :tongue_smile:



Ouch 
Just need a little patience
Anyway have fun guys


----------



## Loquah

Major tease coming...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Just installed the C4S and it has definitely taken the S.E.X. to a whole new level. Updated review coming soon to the front page (I'll post an update here once it's done)


----------



## Dopaminer

loquah said:


> Major tease coming...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cool.


----------



## Doc B.

Sorry it took as long as it did to get the kits to you Lachlan. The geniuses at the local post office are so used to sending things to nearby Victoria, B.C., Canada, that they initially shipped your kit there instead of Victoria, OZ. This is akin to we Washingtonians often having to explain that we are not in the same Washington as all of our beloved politicians, but rather in the one that is as far away as we can be from them.


----------



## Loquah

That's OK, Doc. I know it wasn't your error.
  
 I have to say I'm a little scared now though... the S.E.X. with C4S sounds SO good that I'm worried the Mainline might actually blow my mind!


----------



## skeptic

dopaminer said:


> Really happy to join this thread, as I am planning a tube amp DIY session in the new year, my first ever so maybe the Crack, but really want to jump in to the Mainline.
> ....


 
  
 Buy the latter and get the former for free?  http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,5190.0.html  
  
 Also, hoping to be able to provide impressions on my mainline very soon!


----------



## Dopaminer

skeptic said:


> Also, hoping to be able to provide impressions on my mainline very soon!


----------



## Loquah

dopaminer said:


>


 
 +1


----------



## Loquah

The S.E.X. C4S upgrade review is done. Sorry Crack fans...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831531


----------



## gideon228

Maybe you'll sell Crack at meet on Satdy...


----------



## atsq17

I have dibs on the SEX once the mainline blows him away.


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> The S.E.X. C4S upgrade review is done. Sorry Crack fans...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831531


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback Loquah on the S.E.X. + C4S its nice to know how well the sound scales along with the price. Funny enough I was reading through your build posts on the Bottlehead forum last night so great timing! I am really enjoying the Crack build and to be honest looking at the SEX I would never dream of taking on the build as a first project but that might change after I have the Crack under my belt. I do prefer the Crack in the looks department its aesthetically very pleasing and has that classic tube headphone amp look to it.  Looking on the Bottlehead SEX page I see there is also a very nice headphone stand which unfortunately its not included!
  
 Enjoy your SEX


----------



## LoveKnight

If it is possible, please record some important parts, some videos when building your Mainline so we can keep and view it as document, instruction to help other people like me easier to build Mainlines. I viewed the bottlehead website but look like they have not mentioned or write about the skill level requirement to build a Mainline yet.
  
 Could the thousand buck Mainline compete with other expensive tube amps such as as Taboo MK III? What do you guys think? Ah too many things to buy next year 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## JamieMcC

A little build update, top plate completed, the only really fiddly bit was the fixing the transformer in place.
  
 I just could not resist putting some tubes in place for a quick preview, I still have some work to do on the case.
  

 .
  
 Wiring and soldering next gulp!


----------



## Loquah

Looking mighty fine!


----------



## Loquah

loveknight said:


> If it is possible, please record some important parts, some videos when building your Mainline so we can keep and view it as document, instruction to help other people like me easier to build Mainlines. I viewed the bottlehead website but look like they have not mentioned or write about the skill level requirement to build a Mainline yet.
> 
> Could the thousand buck Mainline compete with other expensive tube amps such as as Taboo MK III? What do you guys think? Ah too many things to buy next year  .




That's a great idea. I'll see what I can do.


----------



## lextek

That carbon fiber looks gorgeous on the bell on top plate. I wounder if it will help with tube dampening..........


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> A little build update, top plate completed, the only really fiddly bit was the fixing the transformer in place.
> 
> I just could not resist putting some tubes in place for a quick preview, I still have some work to do on the case.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Sooo purdy......


----------



## Doc B.

The carbon fiber veneer looks very cool, I am envious. Someone mentioned CF vinyl wrap as an easy alternative, but that the panel would get too hot for it. I'm inclined to agree. However I will say that's too bad because the latest version of the vinyl (4D) has got a fairly convincing look with a diffraction pattern molded in to make the "weave" shift the reflected light like real CF does. And it's a piece of cake to apply to a flat surface. This is a fender I have vinyl wrapped for a winter motorcycle project.The vinyl might be great for a Quickie panel, which doesn't get hot at all. Or for wrapping a wood base.


----------



## Dopaminer

There is shop here in tokyo that has real carbon fiber sheets for sale in various sizes, similar in size to sheets of office paper.  I really wanted to buy one but couldn`t think of a reason to!  
 Would a top plate of real cf have some benefit for one of these amps?


----------



## JamieMcC

doc b. said:


> The carbon fiber veneer looks very cool, I am envious. Someone mentioned CF vinyl wrap as an easy alternative, but that the panel would get too hot for it. I'm inclined to agree. However I will say that's too bad because the latest version of the vinyl (4D) has got a fairly convincing look with a diffraction pattern molded in to make the "weave" shift the reflected light like real CF does. And it's a piece of cake to apply to a flat surface. This is a fender I have vinyl wrapped for a winter motorcycle project.The vinyl might be great for a Quickie panel, which doesn't get hot at all. Or for wrapping a wood base.


 
  
 Gosh thanks Doc that's really nice of you to say. I will post some pics and details of the build on the Bottlehead forum also once I have completed the build.
  
 Great job on the fender and a nice detail having the contrasting weave direction in the centre section.
  
 I guess it should go without saying that all vinyl are not created equal. Quality brands will have spec sheets and with working temperature ratings a quick look at 3M's Scotchprint 1080-M12 shows.
  

High temperature & water resistant
Install Temp: 60F to 80F (16C to 32C)
End Use Temp: -65F to 225F (-60C to 107C)
  
I would be wary of using an unknown brand without specs.
  
How hot does the Crack top plate get would something like this have a high enough rating? 
  
It would be nice if it could be a option open to builders there are some great looking vinyl's available and as you said it is a piece of cake to apply to a flat surface.
  
http://www.tiptopsigns.com/Carbon-Fiber-Sheet-p-1-c-83.html


----------



## skeptic

Thrilled to report that my mainline is up and running as of this afternoon, and my early impressions are extremely favorable. Having sat back with my hd800's and listened through a sampling of my favorite tracks this evening (from Oscar Peterson and Jazz at the Pawnshop k2hd to Emma Kirkby and the Choir of St. Martins, and from Alison Krauss to 2Pac)  - I have to seriously applaud the team at bottlehead on their new flagship.  This amp is technically excellent and thoroughly enjoyable with every genre you can throw at it, and that is most definitely not a statement that I would make about many widely recommended "TOTL" headphone amps.  
  
 To provide something a bit more concrete - here are a few preliminary impressions of what I'm hearing in reference to Pierre Fournier's brilliant performance of Bach's Cello Suites.  I've probably listened to this album a hundred times on various systems and can't ever recall hearing it sound this good.  Transients are simply effortless - so fast and clean.  Timbre is rich and lifelike, and the audible micro-detail and texture as Fournier digs deep into the strings on certain notes are absolutely amazing.  More generally, on albums across the board, bass presentation is faultless - deep, impactful, and incredibly tight.  Possibly the best I've heard from any tube amp?  Trebles are detailed and nicely extended, but never strident.  For example, I tend to prefer my crack with the anax mod in place.  But to my ears, the pairing with the mainline doesn't need it and hd800's have more air without.  
  
 From a comparative standpoint, I will always love my crack (an incredible value which will soon take up residence in my office) - but for anyone who has been sitting on the fence awaiting comparisons, be assured that, at least to my ears, the mainline absolutely takes it to the next level.


----------



## JamieMcC

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and kind comments I doubt the underside will turn out as Purdy as the top, but as long as it works!


----------



## tdogzthmn

Sounds like my next move is getting a CS4 installed in my SEX amp.  I've been enjoying my SEX with my Orca speakers, STAX SR-507 and my headphone collection.  Its an awesome sounding amp and the versatility really sets it apart from most other amps on the market.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Thanks everyone for the encouragement and kind comments I doubt the underside will turn out as Purdy as the top, but as long as it works!


 
  
  
 I'm sure it'll be plenty purdy!


----------



## Rayvolution

After reading the dramatic effect of the C4S upgrade I finally got off my butt and installed it. WOW you weren't kidding. The bass and resolution. I think the sound just jumped a couple hundred in quality. I'm blown away by listening to Queen and Nightwish in FLAC.
  
 The C4S is a mandatory upgrade and its 2x easier if you install it before finishing the SEX. Desoldering and moving all the wires is a pain.


----------



## Loquah

Good point about the component removal being slightly fiddly, but it's also fun to hear the difference it makes. Not sure which I'd recommend.


----------



## tdogzthmn

My CS4 is ordered!  I've spent several months with the stock amp so I have a good handle on it's abilities.  In addition to the increase in resolution and bass does the CS4 also increase the gain of the amp?  I don't have problems powering my traditional headphones but my speakers and especially the (SRD-7 >STAX) would benefit from some more headroom!


----------



## Loquah

tdogzthmn said:


> My CS4 is ordered!  I've spent several months with the stock amp so I have a good handle on it's abilities.  In addition to the increase in resolution and bass does the CS4 also increase the gain of the amp?  I don't have problems powering my traditional headphones but my speakers and especially the (SRD-7 >STAX) would benefit from some more headroom!


 
  
 No change to gain (that I can hear and from what I understand of the circuit)
  
 Have you got it wired with the 32 ohm tap? (or using the impedance switch?)


----------



## Doc B.

Yes, the gain increases a little, probably 2-3 dB.


----------



## rx7mark

Whats the gain and the max voltage on the Mainline for comparison?
  
 Mark


----------



## wewewho77

doc b. said:


> Yes, the gain increases a little, probably 2-3 dB.



Do you think Mainline have enough power to bring the best out of HE500 or the S.E.X + C4S will be better?
Thanks Doc


----------



## Doc B.

I'd like to be sure of what is being asked about.
 Gain is only going to matter with respect to the output level of your source and how much it needs to be increased. If the source output is low you need more gain in the amp.
 Headroom is about having enough compliance at the input to handle large signal swings from the source. In a tube amp that is largely influenced by what the bias is at each gain stage. It's more of a concern if your source has a high output level. Neither if these has much to do with what amp will drive what headphone. That has more to do with the amp's output power rating into a given load. 
  
 Mainline's power output is about 600mW and gain is, conservatively, about 12dB from the 32 ohm tap into a 32 ohm load. I have not tried HE-500s, though I think someone did at a Head Fi meet a while back and liked the result. I have heard LCD-2s and they worked well.


----------



## skeptic

With another day of listening under my belt, I figured I would offer up some further Mainline impressions - which I have also added into my post (#7) on the first page of the thread.  I've also really been enjoying reading all of your respective comments on the Sex + C4S and greatly look forward to Loquah's Mainline vs. Sex head to head once he's got them both sitting side by side.
  
 To my ears, Mainline retains much of what I have come to think of as bottlehead's house signature (fast, dynamic and engaging - making your toes tap - with a hint of tube fullness and warmth - the tubes, in a sense, filling in for the room effects you don't get with headphones).  However, in the wake of several years of daily listening to my Crack, Mainline is just incredibly clean and refined in comparison, particularly in its excellent bass response and handling of transients.  This is no doubt the result of its ultra highly regulated single gain stage topology and excellent custom output transformers.  Based on my recollections from CanJam - I would analogize that mainline is as fast, detailed and dynamic as a Zana Deux (leaving slower "tubier" flagships like the Woo 5 in the dust), but with a slightly sweeter top end.  Trumpets can still scream when the source material calls for it, but I can't imagine this amp will ever be characterized as even slightly harsh or piercing - which criticisms are occasionally aimed at the Zana.  (I imagine this may mean that mainline has nice low high order distortion - sort of the antithesis of the disproportionate glare folks complain of in SS amps with lots of global feedback?)  In any event, these positive qualities essentially mean that the mainline is a perfect match for hd800's to my ears.  Even when listening to very simple music (i.e. the Wailin Jenny's - the Parting Glass), the incredibly clean separation between voices is an obvious improvement over other amps with which I am familiar and makes vocal harmonies that much more enjoyable.  The same obviously applies to fast complex music as well, where the mainline's control and handling of transients is consistently impressive.  The more I listen, the more enamored I become.
  
 Hope more of you will have a chance to hear this amp in the near future. If possible, I will bring mine to the So. Cal. meet in March.  Also looking forward to receiving the balanced Alpha Dogs I have on order and reporting back as to how they pair with it.


----------



## Doc B.

Thanks so much for your kind words, skeptic! I would agree with what you are describing of the sonics. Mainline was a joint design effort of PJ, PB and myself. In some of our designs I let the guys pretty much dictate the way the amp will end up, for example PB's Crack circuit, or PJ's Quickie. However I kinda fussed and poked and prodded at this one to get exactly what I had in mind. I wanted an amp that was capable as a tool in a critical listening environment, that is to say something I could use for evaluations on my job whether they be equipment or recording quality evaluations. 
  
 The OTL approach is very attractive because of its potential for great bass peformance. However OTL headphone amps tend to use cathode followers (including Crack). The CF is a great circuit, you get rid of the potential issues you have with transformers (expense being a big one) but I hear a certain quality to it that is identifiable as cathode follower sound. Same story for multiple gain stages like S.E.X. has, transformer outputs, etc. This also applies to DHTs vs. IDHTs and a lot of other things. Any design is a compromise, and what you are really doing in any design is deciding which compromises are acceptable to your personal taste. Hopefully one can find someone else out there who has the same taste...
  
 In this case I felt that we could overcome the potential shortcomings of a single gain stage and having to use an output transformer more effectively than dealing with the sonic artifacts of cathode followers or multiple gain stages. This is the kind of thing you only pick up with experience, you gotta build 'em all and critically listen. I also knew from experience that - though I am still not sure why - the attenuator has a huge influence and needed to be the best we could find. We couldn't find what we wanted so we designed our own, as we did the transformers. Because of that kind of approach to the design Mainline will never be inexpensive like Crack or versatile enough to drive speakers like S.E.X., but I do think it is our best sounding headphone amp.


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> (i.e. the Wailin Jenny's - the Parting Glass),


 
  
 Beautiful song I know it well, we all sung it at the end of a Cara Dillon's performance the other night.


----------



## Loquah

doc b. said:


> Yes, the gain increases a little, probably 2-3 dB.


 
  
 Wow. I was having issues with only a limited available range on the volume pot before the C4S, but don't feel like this has reduced at all since adding the C4S. I know 3dB isn't massively significant, but I'm thinking that perhaps my volume issues weren't exacerbated because the quality improvements brought by the C4S offset the slight gain increase and therefore I can enjoy the music slightly louder than before because it's cleaner and smoother. Yet another benefit!


----------



## brunk

loquah said:


> ......
> therefore I can enjoy the music slightly louder than before because it's cleaner and smoother. Yet another benefit!


 
 I know exactly the sensation you are speaking of. For headphones, literally the only one I can do this with is the HE-6, and I'm no stranger to TOTL cans lol. All others give me a 'cringe' feeling.


----------



## Loquah

The C4S Experience  
 Hi Bottlehead fans. Due to a slight shipping "whoopsie" I've ended up with a C4S instead of the PJCCS for my Quickie. After discussion with the lovely Eileen at Bottlehead, we agreed that I could offer the C4S for free to an Australian Head-Fi'er who owns (or orders the S.E.X. kit).
  
 What this means is that you can PM me and, for the cost of only the postage, get yourself a free C4S for an existing S.E.X. or an ordered S.E.X. (i.e. please don't ask for it *in case* you order a S.E.X. in the future - it'd be a shame if it went to waste).


----------



## tdogzthmn

What headphones are you finding work best with the SEX?  I certainly noticed the synergy between the Crack and the HD600 when I owned the pair.  So far the SEX has sounded great with everything and seems to have a particular synergy with my 120ohm K400 headphones.  I was also very happy the amp has been dead quiet with the music paused with no feedback even with the volume turned to max.  Also glad to see my CS4 board is coming in the mail.  Looking forward to hearing if my SR-507 is able to perform even better.


----------



## JamieMcC

Well I just opened up a whole can of worms buying some ATH-W1000X on the drop offer. So far all my headphones have been high impedance the HD650 and Beyer T1's.  The ATH's are so expensive in the UK  around £600 so at less than half price resistance was futile and they are so so Purdy!


----------



## Loquah

I've found lower impedance cans can show some noise from the SEX, but nothing too bad if it's wired on the 4 ohm taps.
I've tried lots of cans and they all sound great - there's just a really slight hum on the lower impedance ones.


----------



## tdogzthmn

My other headphones can't touch the performance of the SR-507 being driven by the SEX amps speaker outputs.


----------



## LoveKnight

tdogzthmn said:


> My other headphones can't touch the performance of the SR-507 being driven by the SEX amps speaker outputs.


 
  
 I think the Stax uses other type of connection so how could you connect your Stax SR-507 to the S.E.X amplifier? Please tell me because I am interested now. Thanks.


----------



## brunk

loveknight said:


> I think the Stax uses other type of connection so how could you connect your Stax SR-507 to the S.E.X amplifier? Please tell me because I am interested now. Thanks.


 
 The Woo WEE or other similar device.


----------



## LoveKnight

Can we do that for the Mainline too, I wonder?


----------



## tdogzthmn

I use an SRD-7/SB, shown on the shelf next to my SR-507, which connects to the speaker outputs of the SEX.  The woo wee does the same thing but is more expensive.


----------



## tdogzthmn

Also for any one also interested in STAX headphones there is a tread on the Bottlehead forum about modding your SEX to play with STAX.
  
 http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,4219.0.html


----------



## LoveKnight

The output of S.E.X can be up to 2 Watts for each channel so we have 4 Watts totally for hungry power headphones but I read on the Mainline looks like can output up to 2 Watts.


----------



## Zashoomin

loveknight said:


> The output of S.E.X can be up to 2 Watts for each channel so we have 4 Watts totally for hungry power headphones but I read on the Mainline looks like can output up to 2 Watts.


 
 Mainline is 600mW


----------



## Loquah

Speaking of the Mainline, the chassis plate is due back from the anodiser tomorrow!


----------



## wewewho77

loquah said:


> Speaking of the Mainline, the chassis plate is due back from the anodiser tomorrow!



Can't wait for the mainline review from you


----------



## gabbadabbadoo

Wow, that chassis plate is pimping! Interested in hearing the comparisons of popular high end headphones using Mainline vs. other high-end amps.


----------



## JamieMcC

Will the Mainline be the one amp to rule them all? I quiet like its looks so fingers crossed it will be able to really tease out the very best in each can and make them sing!


----------



## Rayvolution

I've heard that all 6DN7's are the same so there's no advantage of tube rolling at all on the S.E.X. Is this true?


----------



## audiowize

rayvolution said:


> I've heard that all 6DN7's are the same so there's no advantage of tube rolling at all on the S.E.X. Is this true?


 
 There are black and gray plate triodes for each of the big and little halves, so there are:
  
 big triode black, small triode black
 big triode gray, small triode gray
 big triode gray, small triode black
 big triode black, small triode gray
  
 There are also series/parallel heater arrangements, though you'd be hard pressed to hear a difference there.
  
 There are also coin based 6DN7's that are built a little differently.


----------



## Loquah

rayvolution said:


> I've heard that all 6DN7's are the same so there's no advantage of tube rolling at all on the S.E.X. Is this true?


 
  
 I have heard that and my limited experiences confirm it. I've tried 3 pairs of different 6DN7s with no noticeable change.


----------



## tdogzthmn

Got my CS4 board installed this evening, only took about 4 hours from opening the box to sitting here with music playing sweetly through my headphones.  Already sounds stronger than before and hopefully the improvements will continue as it gets more play time.


----------



## Loquah

tdogzthmn said:


> Got my CS4 board installed this evening, only took about 4 hours from opening the box to sitting here with music playing sweetly through my headphones.  Already sounds stronger than before and hopefully the improvements will continue as it gets more play time.


 
  
 I didn't really notice significant burn-in effects with the C4S, but I wasn't really listening for it. All I know is it made the sound significantly better!


----------



## tdogzthmn

I would say sharper and more present would be good descriptions for the changes I noticed immediately from the install.


----------



## Loquah

Yes. That matches my experience too.
  
 I feel like the sound became slightly smoother / cleaner sounding too - silky even


----------



## jamc

So I can run the HE-500's off the SEX speaker taps- need resistors?
 I have them now on a Bifrost/Asgard combo and don't like the sound- 11 o'clock is loud enough and the bass is great but the rest seems bright, tinny, just not full enjoyable sound. Ran them for 4 days straight when new to break them in. It may just be me and failing hearing but I a hoping to get some warmer, fuller sound going tubey. I am going to try the Emotiva mini-x on speaker taps to see if more power helps.


----------



## audiowize

You won't need resistors on the SEX/HE-500.  You can also plug them into the headphone jack instead of the binding posts.


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

audiowize said:


> You won't need resistors on the SEX/HE-500.  You can also plug them into the headphone jack instead of the binding posts.


 
  
 This is 100% true. There is no need to source power from the speaker binding posts on the S.E.X. to power any headphone. The switching headphone jack routes the exact same signal to the binding posts - without additional resistors in the path - when nothing is connected to it. Some earlier versions of the S.E.X. did have resistors in the headphone jack path (cutting out about 10 dB of gain and raising the output impedance), but at some point prior to the 2.1 revision these were eliminated. It was a good change.
  
 I know there's this myth that all orthodynamics need to be powered from the speaker taps, but unless that's your best cable - save yourself the trouble here. All else equal, the only difference is that the headphone jack has roughly a foot less cabling in the S.E.X. Also, the HE-500 sings when powered by the S.E.X. (and this combo has silly amounts of headroom).


----------



## Loquah

The Mainline plate has returned from the anodiser and the colour is great!!
  

  
 Unfortunately there is a blemish on one edge and this was on the 3rd attempt to get it perfect apparently. There's only so many rounds of anodising that a sheet can take so I'll have to live with the mark (which is pretty minor), but I'm going to try to mask it with a pin-stripe (aka "The Mainline" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Very cool!


----------



## JamieMcC

Very nice I like the pin-stripe idea that would look super, some of the old school style pin striping styles are very classy.


----------



## Dopaminer

Pin stripe or racing stripe?


----------



## JamieMcC

Looks great on the blue background but how about that red one it would be real kick ass on the Crack with power tube coming up through the eye.


----------



## olegausany

I don't have HE-500 but have HD800. I bought them in for sale forum here with Q-Audio French Silk cable with 1/4" jack. I also have S.E.X. which I bought at the recent PA meet and adapter cable which allows you to connect headphones to speaker taps was included but it has 4 pin XLR. I also had Moon Audio Blue Dragon cable for HD650 with 1/4" jack which I had difficulty selling with either headphones or by itself. So I ended up sending it back to Moon Audio and the removed HD650 connectors and put 4 pin mini-XLRs instead as my Q-Audio uses. They also cut short piece of cable with the 1/4" jack. Than they attached 4 pin XLR to the main cable so that I can connect it to speakers taps and put appropriate 4 pin XLR to the short cable so that it became 4 pin XLR to 1/4" adapter. After I received the cable back I first tried it with headphones jack and then with speakers taps and I can clearly hear smoother treble and better details retrieval when connected to speakers taps. I thought I know Daft Punk's Random Access Memory album well enough but I was mistaken because I now can hear things I never heard neither with HD700 with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable with 1/4" jack nor with Q-Audio cable


----------



## mcandmar

If you have the S.E.X. amp with the impedance switch boards you have the option of wiring the speakers connectors in a balanced configuration.  On my build i added a 4pin XLR connector and terminated the speakers connections to it so i have both XLR and regular TRS headphone sockets on the amp.  Balanced mode does sound different to me, and i do prefer it balanced, it just sounds more precise.
  
 ^ I suspect that may be what olegausany is hearing as normally there is no difference between the headphone and speaker posts.


----------



## olegausany

Maybe it's the case because I do have both 1/4' jack and 4 pin XLR attached to speakers taps but when using same main cable and adapter part made from it I do hear the difference. I just nknow that it was built and modified by member nikongod


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> The Mainline plate has returned from the anodiser and the colour is great!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Loquah It dawned on me while admiring your top plate a question on the control panel indicator markings for the Mainline does it come with a separate engraved plate which fits over the top plate (which I am hoping) or is it a sticker of somesort its hard to make out exactly what the indicator markings are as its shown on Bottleheads Mainline product?
  
 I hope you can enlighten me


----------



## Doc B.

Yes, the control markings are on a separate acrylic plate. 

Re the difference in sound between speaker outs and TRS jack, my current theory is that the differences are due to the different connector materials. We have found that the terminations on cables are sometimes responsible for sonic differences that might be attributed to the cable itself, by using the same cable with different terminations (for example comparing two interconnects made with the same cable but different RCA plugs)


----------



## jamc

doc b. said:


> Yes, the control markings are on a separate acrylic plate.
> 
> Re the difference in sound between speaker outs and TRS jack, my current theory is that the differences are due to the different connector materials. We have found that the terminations on cables are sometimes responsible for sonic differences that might be attributed to the cable itself, by using the same cable with different terminations (for example comparing two interconnects made with the same cable but different RCA plugs)


 
 Forgive my ignorance but doesn't the TRS jack output less watts to a set of headphones (HE-500 in my case) than the speaker outs? If so, doesn't that affect the sound?


----------



## Loquah

Mainline update:
  

  
 The pinstripe's applied to cover the little blemish. I was worried it was going to be too close to the edge, but it might just work...
  
 Following that, I've also painted the bell and installed the first few pages worth of sockets (up to the power transformer stage).
  

  

  
 Apparently the engine enamel will become shinier once cured fully - it's in the oven right now on about 100 degrees C to see how it comes up. It might need another coat too - not sure.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Looks great on the blue background but how about that red one it would be real kick ass on the Crack with power tube coming up through the eye.


 
  
 That would make an epic top plate design!
  
 Someone should start a hot-rodding shop for Bottlehead kits like they do with bikes and cars!


----------



## Loquah

doc b. said:


> Yes, the control markings are on a separate acrylic plate.
> 
> Re the difference in sound between speaker outs and TRS jack, my current theory is that the differences are due to the different connector materials. We have found that the terminations on cables are sometimes responsible for sonic differences that might be attributed to the cable itself, by using the same cable with different terminations (for example comparing two interconnects made with the same cable but different RCA plugs)


 
  
 Would the same apply if wired balanced using the impedance switch (as mentioned by a previous poster)?


----------



## Doc B.

jamc said:


> Forgive my ignorance but doesn't the TRS jack output less watts to a set of headphones (HE-500 in my case) than the speaker outs? If so, doesn't that affect the sound?




No, power output is the same from either connection. The jack and the speaker posts are wired in parallel.


----------



## JamieMcC

Cyber Monday Quickie for me   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I have been curious about giving it a go.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Cyber Monday Quickie for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice - it's a fun kit. Let us know what colour you get!


----------



## Loquah

Time for another build update. This afternoon I installed the transformers and the front sockets and switches. It's really coming together visually. Now for the numbering of all those terminals!!! Gulp!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

That looks amazing!  Wow!


----------



## shipsupt

That's looking good. Now you've got me reconsidering anodizing some of my builds!


----------



## JamieMcC

That's a nice blue its kind of got a touch of Tealness to it. Do you have the name for it?


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> That's a nice blue its kind of got a touch of Tealness to it. Do you have the name for it?


 
 It's called "The blue the guy at Riga Craft managed to create"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So, no, sorry. He showed me some samples and I just said "something like that one" so that's kind of what I got.


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi Loquah the Main line looks fantastic on the Bottlehead forum. Thinking about your pinstripe if you had some of the metallic pin stripe left over you might see if it would take a burnish.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Hi Loquah the Main line looks fantastic on the Bottlehead forum. Thinking about your pinstripe if you had some of the metallic pin stripe left over you might see if it would take a burnish.




  
 Oooh. That looks great!


----------



## Loquah

Last night's session produced the power supply wiring and the various circuit board sections of the Mainline build.
  
 Here's the power supply board hovering above the main power transformer:
  

  
 These are the other circuit boards. 2 x C4S boards and one bias board (which I don't fully understand yet, but will explain once I install it and work out what it does!)
  

  
 And 2 semi-arty shots just because...


----------



## Loquah

Sorry for the quick double-post. This morning I had a little time for a few more connections and wired the input stages. Bottlehead employ a Cat-5 cable for this which was quite good to work with. Any Mainline veterans looking at this may notice that I mixed up the orange and brown pairs. This was due to a trimming error and forced me to deliberately and carefully substitute brown for orange and vice versa. I also found the lengths of stripped wire at the input end (1st image below) weren't quite sufficient so I had to slide the whole Cat-5 cable further towards the inputs than the instructions said. This might have been an error on my part, but it's no big deal, just not quite as neat as it could have been.
  
 Connections to the very nice quality RCA sockets. Notice the grey Cat-5 insulation extends a lot further past the cable tie than it's meant to. No biggie, but a little less "perfect" than I would have liked.
  

  
 Connections to the input switch. I used a sheath of clear heat-shrink to protect the individual cores of the Cat-5 where the cable tie tightens down. Also, Bottlehead supplied white cable ties, but I had to cut them off when I realised my wire stripping lengths weren't quite right and I had to shift the cable.
  

  
 A view of the full chassis with the Cat-5 running from front to back. I've also temporarily put some resistors in place (but not soldered) at the tube sockets because I was worried they might go astray. I'll talk more about that stage when I get to the correct time to install them.


----------



## brunk

Looks like it's shaping up nicely


----------



## skeptic

Looks like she's coming along nicely indeed! Did you have to do anything special for grounding purposes in light of the anodizing? I recall when building my o2 that I was directed to file down part of the case around one of the screw holes for that reason.


----------



## Loquah

Yes, there's a "master" earth connection near the power inlet on all BH amps. I filed back the metal around that whole on the underside of the plate. I also noticed that the friction of the screws tightening against the plate is enough to scrape away the anodized layer.


----------



## skeptic

Makes sense!  I'm listening to my mainline right now so I can't flip it, but think you may want to do the same for many (all?) the various metal tabs under the standoffs, etc.  You will end up connecting drain wires to a number of them, when wiring the tube sockets for example, and at least in a stock build, they are touching the chassis/ground plane.


----------



## JamieMcC

Every time I see your blue top plate I like it more. Nice work, and so far with the Crack under the belt the Mainline build is not looking overly intimidating (well a little bit) to this newbie with a slow and methodical approach. How does the build manual provided for the Mainline compare with the Crack and Sex is it very much along the same detailed lines? I am expecting it to be but it doesn't hurt to ask.


----------



## skeptic

The mainline build manual is excellent, true to bottlehead form.  There are a lot more connections to make than a crack + speedball but none that require any more dexterity imo.


----------



## JamieMcC

Loquah, good work on your trouble shooting, its been interesting to follow the process over at Bottlehead.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Loquah, good work on your trouble shooting, its been interesting to follow the process over at Bottlehead.


 
  
 Thanks Jamie!
  
 I'll discuss some of the challenges when I do the write-up over here. It's burning in now and sounding good, but it's not as far ahead of the SEX as I expected (i.e. so far the SEX seems very, very good for the price difference)


----------



## Loquah

The Mainline is done!!
  
 I've completed all the assembly, but now need to finish the base, burn it in and give it some solid listening time before I comment in detail and review it.
  
 Early impressions are that it's a serious piece of kit that has buckets of power, but is very polite and smooth without losing any detail. I particularly like the balanced output option and the attenuator setup - really nice!!


----------



## Marks World

Looking forward to your mainline comments. Keep up the great work!


----------



## Loquah

Thanks Mark.
  
 I'm hoping to do a full comparison over the Christmas break.


----------



## Loquah

Here's a little teaser shot after the wood base was oiled with linseed. It's not finished yet (the wood base), but I'm liking where the setup is headed...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

That looks absolutely fantastic!


----------



## wewewho77

Very nice indeed. 
Looking forward to hear the comparison with the SEX


----------



## knowyoutang

I rewrote some recommendations regarding the choice of amp for our soon-to-be-overhauled web site. It was old enough that it discussed our retired Smack kit, so it now includes Mainline instead. I won't post it here because that could easily be construed as advertising. But It should be up on the new site in the next month or two.


----------



## Loquah

knowyoutang said:


> I rewrote some recommendations regarding the choice of amp for our soon-to-be-overhauled web site. It was old enough that it discussed our retired Smack kit, so it now includes Mainline instead. I won't post it here because that could easily be construed as advertising. But It should be up on the new site in the next month or two.


 
  
 Can you PM it to me? I'd be interested to read the intentions for the Mainline for when I review it and compare with the SEX and Crack.


----------



## headwhacker

I have not heard my T1 thru a tube amp. Although I'm completely happy how T1 sounds on my portable amps (M8, C5D) I can't help but get curious how it sounds with a tube amp.

I just finished some DIY projects of my own, (detachable cables for T1 and low profile interconnects) perhaps a DIY crack is my pasport to the world of tube amps. The S.E.X. or mainline appears to be my kind sound signature for an amp but I want to start small and see how it goes from there.


----------



## JamieMcC

Hey Loquah please excuse me for being nosy but have you some speakers heading your way? I noticed the Orcas were listed as sold soon after your post over on the BH forum and I wondered if a review might be the cards.
  
 How are you getting on with your Mainline have you any teasers for us from your review?


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Hey Loquah please excuse me for being nosy but have you some speakers heading your way? I noticed the Orcas were listed as sold soon after your post over on the BH forum and I wondered if a review might be the cards.
> 
> How are you getting on with your Mainline have you any teasers for us from your review?


 
  
 Haha. No - I would have loved those Orcas, but by the time I paid shipping it would have been too much at the moment.
  
 As for the Mainline. It is sounding brilliant, but in a really subtle way. It's not immediately amazing, but in comparison with my other amps it seems to be miles ahead!
  
 I'm still finalising the base so the whole kit can look pretty before getting its photos for the review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it should be ready this week and I'm looking forward to doing a comparison with the S.E.X. and the Crack as well as with the Matrix Quattro amp which is fully balanced so a good comparison in terms of balanced operation.
  
 As another slight teaser, my early impression is that the Mainline combines the smoothness of the Crack with the space and detail of the S.E.X., but does both better!
  
 PS Merry Christmas to everyone!!!


----------



## Loquah

It's begun!!
  
 I started the Mainline review today and have finished the parts and building sections of the review with design, sound and comparisons to follow in the coming days. The formatting is still rough and there's lots more to come, but you're welcome to take a look: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831533
  
 I'll post again when it's done so if you want to wait for the finished version, just sit back and enjoy the Holidays - I'll post when it's finalised and ready for full consumption!


----------



## JamieMcC

Loquah congratulations on the Mainline I am please to hear you have it up and running The review looks excellent so far. I will be checking back regularly in expectation of the next instalments of the your review.
  
 Cheers, Jamie.
  
 Happy New Year for later all.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

Hi Loquah, can I join the T1 + Crack club?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Well done, Loquah!
  
 This looks like it is really shaping up nicely, and I look forward to the rest of your review!


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Hi Loquah, can I join the T1 + Crack club?


 
  
 For sure!!! How do you like the Crack + T1 compared to Crack + HD650?


----------



## wwmhf

Good question. I would like to hear your comments too.
  
 "How do you like the Crack + T1 compared to Crack + HD650?"


----------



## Loquah

Discussion of compatibility, tubes, and general sound review now completed for the Mainline (http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831533)
  
 Comparisons with the Crack and S.E.X. to follow soon...


----------



## FlySweep

Fantastic work so far, Loquah.. an immensely enjoyable read..


----------



## Loquah

flysweep said:


> Fantastic work so far, Loquah.. an immensely enjoyable read..


 
  
 Thanks FlySweep! Glad you enjoyed it!!


----------



## JamieMcC

Loquah super stuff
 
"At first, lifelike reproduction sounds ordinary and everyday - it's only as you spend more and more time with it that you appreciation of it grows because it's completely believable and never fatiguing because nothing is overdone or enhanced."
 
This could equally be describing the T1's imo and its why a lot of folk who just have a quick listen at a high fi meet or a half hours demo just don't get then because of the lack of wow factor. Ordinary and everyday is real and natural and something that very few ever get right.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Loquah super stuff
> 
> "At first, lifelike reproduction sounds ordinary and everyday - it's only as you spend more and more time with it that you appreciation of it grows because it's completely believable and never fatiguing because nothing is overdone or enhanced."
> 
> This could equally be describing the T1's imo and its why a lot of folk who just have a quick listen at a high fi meet or a half hours demo just don't get then because of the lack of wow factor. Ordinary and everyday is real and natural and something that very few ever get right. 
  
 I think you're right, although I do find the T1s only really shine with the right amp - they can be a little edgy and biting with some gear I've tried, but with the Bottlehead range of amps they are so sweet!


----------



## Doc B.

Thanks once again Lachlan for the hard work and the kind words! I think your description is fitting. You have to listen to the amp for a while to figure out that Mainline is not adding the coloration that is present in other amps rather than that being coloration being present in the source material as one might assume. One of the lessons I have learned over the years is to listen just as hard for what an amp doesn't add to the presentation as to what it does add. The better it is at not hyping up the presentation the more useful a tool it is for evaluation of recordings. Sometimes the initial impression is that the amp is lacking something, until you listen a bit deeper.
  
 By the way the output impedance of the low setting is 32 ohms, so it may not be optimal for the odd low impedance IEM. It is however optimal for the huge number of 32 ohm cans out there.


----------



## Loquah

doc b. said:


> By the way the output impedance of the low setting is 32 ohms, so it may not be optimal for the odd low impedance IEM. It is however optimal for the huge number of 32 ohm cans out there.


 
  
 That's really interesting to know - thanks Doc! How is it that the 32 ohm OI suits 32 ohm headphones without causing damping problems, etc?


----------



## Doc B.

The same way that an 8 ohm tap is suitable for 8 ohm speakers. What's really going on not the amp has a fixed output impedance at a given tap, but rather that the headphone has a certain impedance and some multiple of that impedance is reflected back to the tube depending upon the transformer's turns ratio. So a "32 ohm tap" really means that a 32 ohm load on the secondary presents the desired reflected load impedance to the output tube. The circuit will be designed to present the best damping factor possible under the given conditions. For sure that will be quite a bit lower in a zero global negative feedback circuit like our single ended tube amps than a tube amp or SS amp with lots of feedback. But different headphones will also respond in different degrees to different damping factors, because if course the impedance varies at different frequencies in different ways for different headphones. So there is never an absolute set of rules for the way of doing this stuff. It's a matter of choosing which you feel is most important - damping factor, gain, zero feedback, etc, from the design choices available and creating the balance of these things that you think will give the desired result. Some times a particular 16 ohm speaker might end up sounding best on the 8 ohm tap of a given amp, or vice versa. Works the same way for headphones. 

This is a lot of the reason that we decided to build several different amps for different headphones and spend some time offering our thoughts about what we feel are the best combinations.


----------



## Loquah

doc b. said:


> The same way that an 8 ohm tap is suitable for 8 ohm speakers. What's really going on not the amp has a fixed output impedance at a given tap, but rather that the headphone has a certain impedance and some multiple of that impedance is reflected back to the tube depending upon the transformer's turns ratio. So a "32 ohm tap" really means that a 32 ohm load on the secondary presents the desired reflected load impedance to the output tube. The circuit will be designed to present the best damping factor possible under the given conditions. For sure that will be quite a bit lower in a zero global negative feedback circuit like our single ended tube amps than a tube amp or SS amp with lots of feedback. But different headphones will also respond in different degrees to different damping factors, because if course the impedance varies at different frequencies in different ways for different headphones. So there is never an absolute set of rules for the way of doing this stuff. It's a matter of choosing which you feel is most important - damping factor, gain, zero feedback, etc, from the design choices available and creating the balance of these things that you think will give the desired result. Some times a particular 16 ohm speaker might end up sounding best on the 8 ohm tap of a given amp, or vice versa. Works the same way for headphones.
> 
> This is a lot of the reason that we decided to build several different amps for different headphones and spend some time offering our thoughts about what we feel are the best combinations.


 
  
 Wow. That's (also) great to know - thanks Doc!!


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

loquah said:


> For sure!!! How do you like the Crack + T1 compared to Crack + HD650?


 

 Hi Loquah,
  
 About the Crack + T1 vs Crack + HD650, it's pretty difficult for me to tell you which one is BETTER, because they're DIFFERENT and very attractive in their own ways.
  
 The Crack + T1 is more neutral and realistic; the treble, sound stage and imaging are clearly better. But the HD650 + Crack has one of the best mid range and bass I've ever heard, the sound is much fuller and more intimate. So I think it all depends on your listening preference. If you like vocals, you would definitely prefer the HD650, otherwise, I would go for the T1. The T1 is probably the best all-rounder headphones I've had, I can actually enjoy almost everything I throw into it.
  
 But if I still have to choose just one between them, maybe I would go for the HD650 and save pennies to get a HD800. The female vocal of HD800 when paired with the Crack is simply fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 P/S: I don't know why my nephew actually did not really like the HD650. He couldn't listen to the HD650 for over 2 minutes, but you can see how he loved the T1 in those pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :


----------



## JamieMcC

Lachlan I really like this pic from your review, evolution, refinement, individuality but also familiarity and continuity.  Nice pic.


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Hi Loquah,
> 
> About the Crack + T1 vs Crack + HD650, it's pretty difficult for me to tell you which one is BETTER, because they're DIFFERENT and very attractive in their own ways.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's really cute - and interesting. I wonder what those little ears were hearing different from ours?
  


jamiemcc said:


> Lachlan I really like this pic from your review, evolution, refinement, individuality but also familiarity and continuity.  Nice pic.


 
  
 Thanks Jamie - it was fun taking the shots and seeing how tiny the Crack is in comparison to the Mainline. I almost want to buy another Crack kit now though because it only got a stained base with no other custom work - it seems unfair!


----------



## Loquah

Hi all, it's done!! I've finalised the Mainilne review and comparison of all 3 Bottlehead amplifiers: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831533
  
 I thought an overall summary of the 3 amps might be helpful too so here goes:
  
Crack Crack is easily worth more than its price tag and offers outstanding stock performance with the opportunity to scale up using various premium tubes. The Speedball is a must-have in order to hear the Crack at its peak and it's a cheap, easy and reliable upgrade. Easily the easiest Bottlehead kit to build, even for beginners, the Crack is a highly recommended addition for anyone with a pair of 300+ ohm headphones.
  
S.E.X. More versatile, more powerful and more spacious - the S.E.X. is great if you want to use speakers and headphones from a single amplifier. It can run lower impedance headphones while still having plenty of power for high impedance and / or low efficiency cans. It's definitely a harder build than the Crack, but just requires time and patience, not greater skills. Similar to the Speedball for the Crack, the C4S upgrade is a must-have for the S.E.X. and transforms the amp from good to outstanding in a matter of minutes (it's a simple kit you can build and install in <1 hour). I'd recommend to the S.E.X. to anyone looking to spend less than $1000 on a headphone amplifier to drive a range of headphones.
  
Mainline The easily justifiable flagship of the Bottlehead range is harder to build than the Crack, but not vastly different than the S.E.X. It's sound is much more akin to the Crack than the S.E.X. and is intimate rather than spacious, but it's presentation is so perfect that imaging is outstanding despite having slightly less stage space to work with. The Mainline will easily fill the role of end-game amplifier for many people, especially with its ability to drive balanced or unbalanced headphones and with switching to optimise output impedance to suit the headphones used. As always with Bottlehead products, the kit design means you get the satisfaction of building (and possibly customising) your own amp as well as an incredible price-to-performance ratio.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Yay!
  
 Thanks for doing this.  Going to give a read tomorrow.


----------



## lost&confused

blue colour looks ace ..well done  nice review


----------



## LoveKnight

Can the Mainline drive ortho planar headphones better than the S.EX? I am going to buy a Mrspeakers Alpha Dog and I am thinking a powerful amp to drive it, the S.E.X and the Mainline are in my thought now. What is the maximum output of Mainline at 30-50 Ohm? Thanks, very nice review at this time. I am very happy to read it.


----------



## Loquah

The S.E.X. definitely has more power on tap, especially if wired on the 32 ohm taps (or using the impedance switch). I'm hoping to get some LCD 2s soon so will know first hand, but no doubt others can comment from experience.


----------



## skeptic

loveknight said:


> Can the Mainline drive ortho planar headphones better than the S.EX? I am going to buy a Mrspeakers Alpha Dog and I am thinking a powerful amp to drive it, the S.E.X and the Mainline are in my thought now. What is the maximum output of Mainline at 30-50 Ohm? Thanks, very nice review at this time. I am very happy to read it.


 
  
 My AD's just arrived this evening, and I'm running them from my mainline as I type.  They seem to require a slightly more juice than hd800's (about 1 notch on the coarse attenuator = 9db) but rest assured that the mainline can easily drive them to ear splitting volume.  Enjoying the combo and my first evening with the AD's quite a bit, even if it is a little weird to listen to closed phones after spending so much time with the wide open sound of hd800's.


----------



## Loquah

skeptic said:


> My AD's just arrived this evening, and I'm running them from my mainline as I type.  They seem to require a slightly more juice than hd800's (about 1 notch on the coarse attenuator = 9db) but rest assured that the mainline can easily drive them to ear splitting volume.  Enjoying the combo and my first evening with the AD's quite a bit, even if it is a little weird to listen to closed phones after spending so much time with the wide open sound of hd800's.


 
  
 Although I expect there's enough power as well as gain, have you tried the ADs from anything else to see how the Mainline drives them compared to other amps? Volume alone isn't always an indicator of sufficient power, but I do expect the Mainline to be easily up to the task on all fronts.


----------



## Doc B.

The Mainline puts out 600mW from the 32 ohm (low) tap into 32 ohms. It puts out 600mW into 64 ohms from the high tap. We have run it with LCD2s with no problem, and I suspect most other planars will work fine. The AKG K1000 is the one can I would use a S.E.X. with over the Mainline. In fact that setup is at my desk at the office for a while, in place of the usual HD800/Mainline setup.


----------



## Loquah

Has anyone tried HE500s with the Mainline? I'm hearing that they'd benefit from the extra power of the SEX, but would love to hear opinions.

Doc, how do you like the LCD 2s? I'm either going for those or HE500s next, but can't decide.


----------



## Doc B.

They are both good brands. My experience is that they have different presentations and you probably need to listen to them both and decide which works best for you.


----------



## Loquah

Fair call. Trying to find both for an audition is the tricky part!


----------



## LoveKnight

I think the balanced output of the Mainline can double 600mW to 1200mW but it seems to the Mainline can not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I read at the Bottlehead forum and some members said too.


----------



## Doc B.

No, balanced output is the same 600mW. I think maybe someone is confusing push pull amplifiers with balanced signal connections.


----------



## LoveKnight

I am sorry, I am not good at these kind of things but I am still looking for a tube amp which has at least 1W and when I found the Mainline, everything about its sound signature really makes me to have one but the maximum output is not as I expected. Look like I have to wait for Loquah to pair with a planar headphone and see his result.


----------



## audiowize

loveknight said:


> I am sorry, I am not good at these kind of things but I am still looking for a tube amp which has at least 1W and when I found the Mainline, everything about its sound signature really makes me to have one but the maximum output is not as I expected. Look like I have to wait for Loquah to pair with a planar headphone and see his result.


 

 The difference between the Mainline and what you're looking for is a little more than 2dB, so that is worth considering.
  
 If you really do need that kind of power, the SEX amp will fit the bill.


----------



## Loquah

Yes, the S.E.X. is the amp I bought specifically for (efficient) planars.


----------



## gikigill

How about powering the planars straight from the speaker tap. Currently using the SEX and it doesn't do well with the planars. Needs a touch more power and slam so if you plug in and planars sound too bright, you know what's happening.


----------



## Doc B.

There are lots of different planar headphones. It would be helpful if you mentioned which planar headphones aren't working for you.


----------



## gikigill

The Hifiman 500 and the HE6 Doc. 
Too bright which is a sign of not enough power.


----------



## Doc B.

Not enough power would result in the amp clipping as it was forced past its designed output level. Brightness at higher volume levels could be a sign of the onset of clipping (easily verified by pushing the level a bit more and listening for clipping - better yet by actually looking for clipping on a scope), but it could also be due to an impedance mismatch between the source and the amp or the amp and the headphones. Did the amp you used have the original 120 ohm resistors in series with the headphone jack? Also was it the current version 2.1 with our own transformers, or a previous version with the Specos? That kind of info might help determine what it was about the combination that didn't work. The current version of S.E.X. with the impedance switch option is capable of higher voltage swing from the 32 ohm setting than previous versions that didn't have that option, and that might make a difference.
  
 The one time I listened to HiFiMan cans on the S.E.X. it worked quite well. That was a couple of years ago and unfortunately I can't remember which model I heard, so it may be that I heard the more sensitive HE-400. It does strike me as curious that the current S.E.X. amp would run out of steam on HEs as I am sitting here listening to K1000s driven by a S.E.X. amp off the 32 ohm tap and having to turn it down on occasion, not because it is bright or distorting but simply because some track levels are too loud. Looking at the HiFiman website specs it appears that the HE-6/S.E.X. 2.1 combo might be marginal, but the HE-500/S.E.X. 2.1 combo with the S.E.X. set to 32 ohms should work well - at least on paper.


----------



## gikigill

The SEX I have is probably at a lower setting than the 32 ohms. Loquah might know more as he helped build it.
Trouble with the HE series is that they are very demanding than your average ortho. 
Mind you, the SEX sounds great with the rest of my cans including a STAX transformer. Very liquid and very musical.


----------



## Doc B.

A lower impedance tap will definitely make a difference in terms of lowering the output power into a given load. There is a matter of choosing your poison. If you use very sensitive 32 ohm headphones the use of the additional signal swing avaiable from the 32 ohm tap is not really necessary and the increased gain due to the lower turns ratio of the output transformer at the 32 ohm tap might actually introduce a little bit of noise floor. Using lower impedance taps will sound great and improve the signal to noise ratio. If you use very insensitive 38 or 50 ohm headphones like the HE-500/HE-6 the noise floor will not be an issue and the 32 ohm tap will be good to use to get more signal output level than the lower impedance taps. That's why we came up with the impedance switch kit, to allow one to adjust the output impedance easily to tailor the performance for different headphones. And different speakers for that matter.


----------



## tdogzthmn

gikigill said:


> The SEX I have is probably at a lower setting than the 32 ohms. Loquah might know more as he helped build it.
> Trouble with the HE series is that they are very demanding than your average ortho.
> Mind you, the SEX sounds great with the rest of my cans including a STAX transformer. Very liquid and very musical.


 
  
 I really enjoy my SEX with via STAX output transformer.  I also have a Stereomour but its hard to say which is better suited for use with STAX headphones.  I find that the SEX with the impedance switches has a higher level of output allowing me to achieve listening levels at a lower volume setting.


----------



## Loquah

gikigill said:


> The SEX I have is probably at a lower setting than the 32 ohms. Loquah might know more as he helped build it.
> Trouble with the HE series is that they are very demanding than your average ortho.
> Mind you, the SEX sounds great with the rest of my cans including a STAX transformer. Very liquid and very musical.


 
  
 We wired ours for the 8 ohm tap originally I think. I've since lowered mine to 4 ohm. Are you using Billy's while he's away Gill?
  
 I definitely wouldn't expect it to play nicely with the HE-6, but am interested to try the S.E.X. and Mainline with the HE-500 or maybe one of the new models coming soon...
  


doc b. said:


> The current version of S.E.X. *with the impedance switch option* is capable of higher voltage swing from the 32 ohm setting than previous versions that didn't have that option, and that might make a difference.


 
  
 Doc, are you saying that the impedance switch changes the amplifier's voltage swing or is it just about having the ability to easily access the 32 ohm winding when required?


----------



## gikigill

Yup, Billy offered it so I took it. Sounds great and I hardly imagine what it will be after the upgrades and the impedance switch. Pairing it with a TH900 soon.


----------



## gikigill

Try the newer Hifiman headphones Lachlan. 
The 560 looks like a good one if you don't want to build your neck muscles with the HE6.


----------



## Loquah

gikigill said:


> Try the newer Hifiman headphones Lachlan.
> The 560 looks like a good one if you don't want to build your neck muscles with the HE6.


 
  
 That's what I'm thinking. I was going to go for HE-500s or LCD-2, but I think I might stretch for the HD800s now and HE-560s later in the year.


----------



## gikigill

Vastly different sound there but should be interesting nonetheless with the Bottlehead amps. Too bad I have been bitten by the Fostex bug and can't justify another ortho since I find Audeze too dark for my taste.


----------



## Loquah

gikigill said:


> Vastly different sound there but should be interesting nonetheless with the Bottlehead amps. Too bad I have been bitten by the Fostex bug and can't justify another ortho since I find Audeze too dark for my taste.


 
  
 I'm going to have to hear a pair of LCD-2s before I can decide once and for all. I think they'll be to dark for me too, especially from tube amps, but I am so torn between HE-500, HD800 and LCD 2 that auditioning is really the only option!
  
 As for the Fostex, I still can't come around to them, but hopefully I will get a loan of a pair from the Fostex rep or someone so I can get to know them and do a full review...


----------



## Loquah

T1 + Mainline + Gary Clark = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The weight of notes from the Mainline brings this to life like I haven't heard it before...


----------



## skeptic

loquah said:


> Although I expect there's enough power as well as gain, have you tried the ADs from anything else to see how the Mainline drives them compared to other amps? Volume alone isn't always an indicator of sufficient power, but I do expect the Mainline to be easily up to the task on all fronts.


 
  
 I ordered my AD's with a balanced cable to go with the mainline, so I need to slap together a 4pin xlr -> trs adapter (parts already on hand) before I can try them with other amps.  That said, I'm quite pleased with the pairing and am not picking up on anything that suggests the mainline is in any way lacking the power necessary to drive these particular planars.  Many folks in the AD thread are reporting good results with a portable (the hifi m8), so I think power is really a non-issue with AD's.


----------



## Loquah

skeptic said:


> I ordered my AD's with a balanced cable to go with the mainline, so I need to slap together a 4pin xlr -> trs adapter (parts already on hand) before I can try them with other amps.  That said, I'm quite pleased with the pairing and am not picking up on anything that suggests the mainline is in any way lacking the power necessary to drive these particular planars.  Many folks in the AD thread are reporting good results with a portable (the hifi m8), so I think power is really a non-issue with AD's.


 
  
 Good to hear. Please keep us all informed as the library of experience with Mainline pairings is still very new...


----------



## greyhamster

How much power into a 300 ohm load (HD600) using the 8 ohm tap on the S.E.X?

 I feel like there's something missing when moving from 32 ohm tap to 8 ohm tap.

 does using 120 ohm resistors in series give similar result as wiring to a lower impedance tap?


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

gikigill said:


> The Hifiman 500 and the HE6 Doc.
> Too bright which is a sign of not enough power.


 
 I feel obliged to note that I am using a S.E.X. 2.1 (no 120 Ohm resistors) in combination with a HiFiMAN HE-500.
  
 It's glorious, liquid, and definitely not too bright (this is coming from a previous HD-650 user, so I'm no brightness lover). The signature of the S.E.X. is more clear and uncolored than the warmness of the Crack. If you're accustomed to warmer amps, this might be what you're hearing. The power on tap is not, I repeat NOT, a problem with the S.E.X., except that the volume knob can barely go a quarter of a turn before it gets earsplitting... and I've currently got it set to the 4 Ohm tap.
  
 Again, any power issue with this combination is the opposite of "not enough." I'm not sure what you're experiencing, but I can say with certainty it isn't a deficit of power if your S.E.X. is new production and built correctly. Considering how well it handles my ~92dB efficient large monitor speakers, I can hardly imagine any headphones would be beyond the capabilities of the S.E.X.
  
 I'm quite sensitive to clipping artifacts as well, and none exist.


----------



## gikigill

The HE 500 works fine but not the HE6.


----------



## Loquah

skeptic said:


> This should be a great thread!  I look forward to your comparisons and hope to share some of my own as well in the not too distant future.  My mainline build is coming along - currently finishing off the last half dozen or so resistors in the coarse attenuator.
> 
> *11-18-13 Update - Initial Impressions of Mainline:*
> 
> ...




I just re-read this, Skeptic, having initially only read it before my Mainline was finished and I'm stoked to read that we are both hearing the same things.

Now that I've spent time with the Mainline, I have to commend you for a perfect write-up and description of its many merits!


----------



## LoveKnight

Please, try one or two planar headphones with Mainline, if the result is still great as it is, I really want to purchase a Mainline next year (oh, this year I meant if possible) to drive my Alpha Dog and future high-end dynamic headphone as T1 or H800.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Has anyone heard both the Mainline and the Sonett2?  I would love to find out how they measure up to each other.


----------



## TinFoildHat

Edit: moved my question to Help & Recommendations Forum


----------



## Loquah

Does anyone in Melbourne have some planars I could try with the Mainline (ie arrange a time to meet somewhere)? I think I'm going to get the new HE-560 when it's released, but not sure when that is.


----------



## Rayvolution

the HE-560 is coming in March
  
 The LCD 2 is a great match with the S.E.X. The warmness really isn't an issue for me, but I tend to like it a little bassy (thats why I own an LCD-2 I guess). I noticed with my HE-400 and LCD that the SEX puts vocals forward. I really like with the LCD since otherwise its presentation is laid back. The instruments are still a little laid back but the forward vocals are very nice.
  
 I remember Doc saying he liked the pairing of the S.E.X with the HE-500 more than the LCD though. The 500 has a greater soundstage and treble presentation than the LCD so I can see why the SEX would be an HE-500 dream amp. Same reason why people like the SEX with the HD-800.


----------



## Loquah

rayvolution said:


> the HE-560 is coming in March
> 
> The LCD 2 is a great match with the S.E.X. The warmness really isn't an issue for me, but I tend to like it a little bassy (thats why I own an LCD-2 I guess). I noticed with my HE-400 and LCD that the SEX puts vocals forward. I really like with the LCD since otherwise its presentation is laid back. The instruments are still a little laid back but the forward vocals are very nice.
> 
> I remember Doc saying he liked the pairing of the S.E.X with the HE-500 more than the LCD though. The 500 has a greater soundstage and treble presentation than the LCD so I can see why the SEX would be an HE-500 dream amp. Same reason why people like the SEX with the HD-800.


 
  
 I thought the S.E.X. would pair well with the LCDs. The S.E.X. has such an open soundstage that it would really open up any of the more intimate sounding cans and also bring a little extra treble presence to darker cans, too.


----------



## Zashoomin

loquah said:


> I thought the S.E.X. would pair well with the LCDs. The S.E.X. has such an open soundstage that it would really open up any of the more intimate sounding cans and also bring a little extra treble presence to darker cans, too.


 
 Maybe I am going insane but I have found that the DAC affects the soundstage on the LCD2's and 3's a lot more than the amp.  Even with the SEX I found the soundstage to be a bit small but the base punch was insanely good.


----------



## Loquah

zashoomin said:


> Maybe I am going insane but I have found that the DAC affects the soundstage on the LCD2's and 3's a lot more than the amp.  Even with the SEX I found the soundstage to be a bit small but the base punch was insanely good.


 
  
 Do you mean the same DAC with different amps has less impact than the same amp with different DACs? In theory there should be no difference and it should just come down to each component's ability to present the soundstage, but maybe something about the way the planars interact with the amps changes that.
  
 I'd heard that the LCD 2s had a fairly small soundstage. Does the S.E.X. expand it a bit though in comparison to other amps?


----------



## Zashoomin

loquah said:


> Do you mean the same DAC with different amps has less impact than the same amp with different DACs? In theory there should be no difference and it should just come down to each component's ability to present the soundstage, but maybe something about the way the planars interact with the amps changes that.
> 
> I'd heard that the LCD 2s had a fairly small soundstage. Does the S.E.X. expand it a bit though in comparison to other amps?


 
 It could also be that I have been hearing much larger upgrades in dacs but smaller upgrades in amps and their respective price points if you know what I mean.  Digital tech advances a lot faster than analog.  
  
 Ya the LCD2's soundstage can be mistaken for a closed headphone with large soundstage IMO.  But yes the SEX did expand it a bit in comparison to a couple other amps but even so it is a bit constricted.   The biggest issue I had with the SEX was the noise floor to be honest,  otherwise I loved the SEX with the LCD2's


----------



## Loquah

zashoomin said:


> It could also be that I have been hearing much larger upgrades in dacs but smaller upgrades in amps and their respective price points if you know what I mean.  Digital tech advances a lot faster than analog.
> 
> Ya the LCD2's soundstage can be mistaken for a closed headphone with large soundstage IMO.  But yes the SEX did expand it a bit in comparison to a couple other amps but even so it is a bit constricted.   The biggest issue I had with the SEX was the noise floor to be honest,  otherwise I loved the SEX with the LCD2's


 
  
 How did you find the noise floor on the lower impedance taps? I've really only used it with 100+ ohm cans (other than during the testing and review) so I forget what it's like with lower impedance cans. I would have thought the low sensitivity of planars would counter-act the lower impedance and therefore remove the noise.


----------



## Zashoomin

loquah said:


> How did you find the noise floor on the lower impedance taps? I've really only used it with 100+ ohm cans (other than during the testing and review) so I forget what it's like with lower impedance cans. I would have thought the low sensitivity of planars would counter-act the lower impedance and therefore remove the noise.


 
 I had impedance switches on mine so I played around with different impedances and I found the lower impedances would have a little less noise but still what I would consider a loud noise floor.  Also the speaker taps where the same.  Ya I thought that I wouldn't have an issue with planars but I could still hear it.  It was loud enough to where I could hear it through the really quiet parts in songs.


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## skeptic

loquah said:


> I just re-read this, Skeptic, having initially only read it before my Mainline was finished and I'm stoked to read that we are both hearing the same things.
> 
> Now that I've spent time with the Mainline, I have to commend you for a perfect write-up and description of its many merits!


 
  
 Thank you Loquah - that's high praise indeed coming from a listener and reviewer of your caliber!  Your creation and dutiful cultivation of this thread, and your finely crafted reviews at its heart, have made it one of the best on head-fi in a long time, imo, and I am very pleased to be able to participate in the discussion, at least with to the crack and mainline!  


loveknight said:


> Please, try one or two planar headphones with Mainline, if the result is still great as it is, I really want to purchase a Mainline next year (oh, this year I meant if possible) to drive my Alpha Dog and future high-end dynamic headphone as T1 or H800.


 
  
 I would love to hear Loquah's (and any others!) impressions of the Mainline with orthos as well.  After several more hours of not particularly attentive listening, I continue to feel that the Mainline pairs very nicely with AD's, but my growing sense is that the AD's lack the sort of micro-detail necessary to really show off everything the mainline can do - which is immediately apparent with hd800's by contrast.  Then again, as the AD's oversized pads and foam risers compress a bit, and the drivers ultimately settle a little closer to my ears, and subject to any mechanical break-in that may or may not occur, this initial impression may very well change.
  
 As a fun experiment, based on a number of posts reporting that the AD's pair well with the emo mini-x (a 50watt/channel speaker amp), I built an xlr to speaker tap adapter this weekend and tried my balanced AD's out with a 15 watt differential t-amp (the topping tp30).  Setting aside a little audible hiss (which I understand can be addressed with a t-pad in each channel, made up of high watt, noninductive wire-wound resisters), the AD's sounded surprisingly good with the tp30 - although still not on par with the mainline.  I plan to order and rig up some appropriate resisters in the next couple of weeks and test this out as a possible bedside rig, which was the purpose of my AD purchase from the outset.  The mainline hd800 combo is on a whole 'nother level and will remain my primary rig.


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## Aeolus Kratos

And now I'm addicted to Bottlehead amps.....
  
 This is all because of for your excellent review and comparison Loquah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  

  

  
  
 Happy listening everyone! Bottlehead team really make outstanding amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P/S: sorry for the bad photo quality. My iPod Touch camera just sucks.


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## prime spin

Subscribed.  I can't believe I am just now discovering this discussion.  Very nice thread and comparisons, Loquah! 
  
 I am glad to see your comparison of the Crack vs SEX.  A couple years ago, I had a Crack w/SB order placed when DocB announced the new SEX2.1.  I called them up and changed my order (Crack-->SEX2.1), but always wondered whether I made the right decision.  At the time, I had not yet bought my HD650, and I wanted to leave open the possibility of lower impedance cans.  Also, I like the idea of being able to drive speakers in a close/desktop setup.  I have to agree that the soundstage is phenomenal, and with the bass-heavy 650, I don't notice the lean quality that you have noted.  I have the C4S assembled, but not installed but I will report back my comparisons after I have time to get them in and listen for a while.
  
 At the time I built my SEX, Doc's output impedance switch was not available.  I came up with a simple solution using DPDT switches from the shack.  It only offers the ability to switch between 8 and 32 ohm settings.  It does not allow for other impedances, nor does it allow for balanced output, but it only cost about $6.  I mounted the switches on L brackets which mounted to tube-side mounting screws for the OTs and chokes.  I have a few photos in my gallery (http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/693857/default/) to offer a visual explanation. This may be an option for folks who want to have some versatility while they save up for Doc's boards, or those like me who only need it for 8 ohm speakers and higher impedance headphones.
  
 I just recently built the Quickie and have not tried to put OTs on it.  But, as a preamp, it is crazy how nice that thing sounds, especially for the small cost.  It is breathy but not hissy, solid, and QUIET.  It stands up well to my Foreplay 2 with C4S that I have had in my system for almost 15 years.  After I get the PJCCS in it, it may replace the old FP2. 
  
 Thanks again, for the thread,
 --Tad


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## Rayvolution

zashoomin said:


> I had impedance switches on mine so I played around with different impedances and I found the lower impedances would have a little less noise but still what I would consider a loud noise floor.  Also the speaker taps where the same.  Ya I thought that I wouldn't have an issue with planars but I could still hear it.  It was loud enough to where I could hear it through the really quiet parts in songs.


 
  
 How odd, I get a little hiss when I turn the amp past 3/4th but I can't hear anything on my LCD's at comfortable listening volume. I'm feeding it from a cheap Fiio D03K but I'm going to upgrade soon. I haven't had a chance to test my LCD with other amps so I can't really say whether the SEX is a top LCD pairing but from what I'm hearing I'd say it is


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## Doc B.

If I could hear the noise I might be able to help a bit more. If the noise follows the volume control level it's coming from ahead of it, which might mean that it's being picked up by cables or coming from the source component. If the noise stays at a constant level as the volume goes up and down it is coming from the amp itself or the amp circuit itself is picking up outside noise. Sometimes establishing what the noise does as the volume control goes up and down can eliminate a lot of unnecessary testing.


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## rx7mark

Does anyone know the voltage swing of the Mainline?
  
 Interested in knowing if the Mainline can be used to drive a PASS DIY F4 amp.  Ideally it needs +/- 20V.
  
 Thanks
 Mark


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## younglee200

So I've just sold my Crack amp to switch over to the S.E.X.  First reason is because I like doing DIY and want to have fun building this kit.  Second reason is for the flexibility.
  
With that said, I've noticed that Bottlehead gives a 10% discount they are bought in pairs or more.  Would anyone else be interested in purchasing a kit with me to save some money?
  
 Please let me know if this violates any rules.


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## SilverTrumpet999

zashoomin said:


> I had impedance switches on mine so I played around with different impedances and I found the lower impedances would have a little less noise but still what I would consider a loud noise floor.  Also the speaker taps where the same.  Ya I thought that I wouldn't have an issue with planars but I could still hear it.  It was loud enough to where I could hear it through the really quiet parts in songs.


 
 I originally had something like this happen, but I was listening unloaded; there was no source connected. The S.E.X. has a much higher noise floor when unloaded vs. when a source is connected. As in, there actually is some noise unloaded vs. zero loaded.
  
 After that, I found that what I was hearing was upstream noise. None of it was from the amp itself, it was being passed along from the DAC. In fact, it was so sensitive that I could actually determine a very audible difference in my DAC's noise floor when it was stopped (much lower) vs. just paused! The point is, it might not be the amp itself... try swapping between a few sources and see if the noise is audibly different.


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## titusgroan

I'd be very interested to read any opinions on how the Mainline performs with the Audeze LCD-2 rev 2s. I currently use an ALO Pan Am to drive my LCD-2's which works very well but would like to know if the Mainline could offer improvement.


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## Loquah

titusgroan said:


> I'd be very interested to read any opinions on how the Mainline performs with the Audeze LCD-2 rev 2s. I currently use an ALO Pan Am to drive my LCD-2's which works very well but would like to know if the Mainline could offer improvement.


 
  
 I'm testing that exact combo on Wednesday and will be only too glad to let you know!


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## dpump

Anyone in the Greensboro, High-Point, Winston-Salem, Charlotte, Raleigh, North Carolina, have a Mainline?


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## Loquah

I was able to try some LCD 2s (technically Rev 2, but realistically more like Rev 4 - i.e. brand new) today with the Mainline and S.E.X.
  
 They sounded equally good with both the S.E.X. and the Mainline and there was still plenty of headroom to be had on both amps with no audible signs of being under-powered. As usual, the Mainline lent its beautiful weight and presence to the sound and was better overall with the LCDs despite having slightly less power to work with.
  
 Overall, I still prefer my T1s (phew!) because of the extra air in the presentation compared to the LCD 2s, but I was amazed at how similar both were. The Mainline / T1 combination is a match made in heaven it seems!


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## wewewho77

Hi Lachlan.
Still waiting your report of pairing the Mainline/S.E.X with the Hifimans. 
Maybe you will find the Hifiman suits you better than the Audeze if you really likes your T1.
BTW thanks a lot for your Mainline/S.E.X comparison.


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## Loquah

wewewho77 said:


> Hi Lachlan.
> Still waiting your report of pairing the Mainline/S.E.X with the Hifimans.
> Maybe you will find the Hifiman suits you better than the Audeze if you really likes your T1.
> BTW thanks a lot for your Mainline/S.E.X comparison.


 
  
 The HiFiMans have now jumped to the top of my list, wewewho. I'm waiting to hear back from a Head-Fier in the US about a classified for some HE-500s so fingers crossed. Otherwise I might have to buy new ones because I'm keen too.
  
 I'll post full impressions once I try them.
  
 Also, just to clarify, I really liked the LCD 2s, but they just weren't better than the T1s for my tastes. If the T1s are 99% right for me, the LCD 2s were 96% right for me - still very, very good with the Mainline and the S.E.X.


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## skeptic

Thanks for the report back on the mainline -> lcd2 pairing Loquah!  Since I hear the lcd 2's as basically a side grade from hd650's (notwithstanding the cost difference), it makes perfect sense to me that you would ultimately prefer you T1's.  Before settling on my hd800's, I spent a couple hours auditioning lcd 2's in a quiet room with a bunch of my favorite test CD's.  My final conclusion was that audeze's "shelved down" trebles (at least on the lcd 2 v1) translated into an overly polite presentation of well recorded acoustic treble instruments (e.g. violins, trumpets, pipe organ, etc.) that just wasn't quite what I was looking for.  hd800's also clearly trounced them in sound stage.  Obviously, the lcd's are great headphones from a big picture standpoint, and I am nitpicking relative to my subjective preferences, but as someone who was heavily involved in semi-pro choral music from a young age, and also played in a brass section for many years, these are things that tend to stand out to me.  You certainly have to respect their bass presentation though!
  
 Don't suppose you've had a chance to listen to your mainline with hd800's yet?  They are basically a perfect match to my ears, but I have yet to hear T1's.  A face off is no doubt in order!
  
 I snapped the below pic this morning to update my avatar and figured I'd share the full res version.  The mainline really is a great looking amp even in stock form.  I may or may not end up staining the wood frame, but am still too busy enjoying the music at present.


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## Loquah

skeptic said:


> Thanks for the report back on the mainline -> lcd2 pairing Loquah!  Since I hear the lcd 2's as basically a side grade from hd650's (notwithstanding the cost difference), it makes perfect sense to me that you would ultimately prefer you T1's.  Before settling on my hd800's, I spent a couple hours auditioning lcd 2's in a quiet room with a bunch of my favorite test CD's.  My final conclusion was that audeze's "shelved down" trebles (at least on the lcd 2 v1) translated into an overly polite presentation of well recorded acoustic treble instruments (e.g. violins, trumpets, pipe organ, etc.) that just wasn't quite what I was looking for.  hd800's also clearly trounced them in sound stage.  Obviously, the lcd's are great headphones from a big picture standpoint, and I am nitpicking relative to my subjective preferences, but as someone who was heavily involved in semi-pro choral music from a young age, and also played in a brass section for many years, these are things that tend to stand out to me.  You certainly have to respect their bass presentation though!
> 
> Don't suppose you've had a chance to listen to your mainline with hd800's yet?  They are basically a perfect match to my ears, but I have yet to hear T1's.  A face off is no doubt in order!
> 
> I snapped the below pic this morning to update my avatar and figured I'd share the full res version.  The mainline really is a great looking amp even in stock form.  I may or may not end up staining the wood frame, but am still too busy enjoying the music at present.


 
  
 Looks great!!!
  
 I am yet to hear HD800s with the Mainline and I have a feeling it will be an expensive experience! From what I keep hearing everywhere, the T1s and HD800s are very similar with just a little more warmth from the T1s and better staging from the HD800s... it'll be interesting to hear how big the differences are.


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## Don Lehrer

Subscribed and already saving money to get addicted...


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## GeorgeNapalm

*Loquah*, *skeptic*, you guys totally seduced me. I sold my Crack with all the tubes and got the Mainline during recent promotion. Hopefully the wait isn't going to be long.
  
*skeptic*, great picture!


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## Loquah

georgenapalm said:


> *Loquah*, *skeptic*, you guys totally seduced me. I sold my Crack with all the tubes and* got the Mainline* during recent promotion. Hopefully the wait isn't going to be long.
> 
> *skeptic*, great picture!


 
  
 Yay!! Congratulations. You won't regret it!!
  
 Does that mean you're currently Bottleheadless?


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## dpump

georgenapalm said:


> *Loquah*, *skeptic*, you guys totally seduced me. I sold my Crack with all the tubes and got the Mainline during recent promotion. Hopefully the wait isn't going to be long.
> 
> *skeptic*, great picture!


 

 What was the recent promotion?


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## GeorgeNapalm

dpump said:


> What was the recent promotion?


 
  
 To celebrate Loquah's review of Mainline they temporarily dropped the price to $999. The promotion ended on January 15.
  


loquah said:


> Yay!! Congratulations. You won't regret it!!
> 
> Does that mean you're currently Bottleheadless?


 
  
 Thanks!
 Yep, for a while. I guess I'm schiithead now, since I'm gonna borrow Schiit Vali from my office rig


----------



## skeptic

georgenapalm said:


> *Loquah*, *skeptic*, you guys totally seduced me. I sold my Crack with all the tubes and got the Mainline during recent promotion. Hopefully the wait isn't going to be long.
> 
> *skeptic*, great picture!




Thanks George, and congrats on joining the mainline club! Hope your kit ships soon and that your build goes smoothly and enjoyably.


----------



## audiowize

We have a batch of the custom made attenuator switches being produced for the Mainline at the moment.  These will likely hold up a few of the Mainline orders for a couple of weeks.
  
 -PB


----------



## Doc B.

We also have a batch of 6C45pi tubes en route from Eastern Europe, and that can take some time.


----------



## Marks World

Thanks for all the great information. 

Has anyone tried out the grado Ps1000 with the mainline? I'd love to hear their impressions.


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## audiowize

I delivered a lovely batch of powder coated transformer covers today for these Mainlines, and I might've even over delivered and left an extra one in the packing room....


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## Loquah

audiowize said:


> I delivered a lovely batch of powder coated transformer covers today for these Mainlines, and I might've even over delivered and left an extra one in the packing room....


 
  
 Is that a new option? What colour?


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## Doc B.

Gold vein. It was a special offer a while back. Sounds like there is one left, that could go to the next person who orders a Mainline.


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## Loquah

doc b. said:


> Gold vein. It was a special offer a while back. Sounds like there is one left, that could go to the next person who orders a Mainline.


 
  
 Nice!!


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## pdrm360

Subscribed


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## MoatsArt

Mainline vs WA2 - Any comparions?


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## pdrm360

moatsart said:


> Mainline vs WA2 - Any comparions?


----------



## Loquah

I'm yet to try the Woo range unfortunately (except for Fireflies). The local retailer is difficult to deal with.


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## MoatsArt

I will have to be cautious when I deal with them then. Any particular complaint?


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## Loquah

moatsart said:


> I will have to be cautious when I deal with them then. Any particular complaint?


 
  
 Not sure if it's who you'd use from NSW, but if it is they are not particularly personable, can be a bit unresponsive (I waited for about half an hour for help there one day), and they've now banned me from their shop because I'm friendly with the owner of a competing shop and assisted him at a trade show last year. That last one shouldn't affect anyone else directly, but gives a sense of their approach to business.


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## MoatsArt

A little shop in Kew and frequent user of Headfi advertising space distributes Woo gear - I have used them in the past and intended doing so in the future. Have not had any problems to date.

Sounds like things get pretty personal in the Melbourne audio retailing scene. A2A vs NM?


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## Doc B.

Lachlan you have me chuckling. I feel I need to step in here and say that you are just a great guy to deal with - because some guys who have been banned from doing business with various MOTs are complete lunatics. 

My favorite dealer story - maybe 18 years ago I built some DIY speakers that I wanted to hear with 300B amps. I took the speakers to a dealer in Seattle try to some out. He asked what they were called, and I replied that we jokingly called them the Superwhamodynes. He went on about what a terrible name it was and how he could never sell a product with that horrible a name. 

Ten minutes later a guy walked in asking for some small speakers for his kitchen. The owner replied "I have just the thing. They're called Owies."


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## Loquah

doc b. said:


> Lachlan you have me chuckling. I feel I need to step in here and say that you are just a great guy to deal with - because some guys who have been banned from doing business with various MOTs are complete lunatics.
> 
> My favorite dealer story - maybe 18 years ago I built some DIY speakers that I wanted to hear with 300B amps. I took the speakers to a dealer in Seattle try to some out. He asked what they were called, and I replied that we jokingly called them the Superwhamodynes. He went on about what a terrible name it was and how he could never sell a product with that horrible a name.
> 
> Ten minutes later a guy walked in asking for some small speakers for his kitchen. The owner replied "I have just the thing. They're called Owies."


 
  
 Great story, Doc. People never fail to amuse me with our various complexities.
  
 Thanks too for your kind words. I like to form relationships with the people I deal with because I like to be able to discuss the things I'm passionate about and receive suggestions / recommendations and also just share a passion with likeminded people (I do this with music, coffee, all sorts of things including headphones). I was pretty shocked when they wouldn't let me come in to auditíon some LCD 2s because I was too friendly with a competitor.
  
 Long and short of it, I made mention of it because my less-than-ideal (but not awful) experiences had previously prevented me experiencing many of the products on offer with the retailer and now I'm not allowed in there (although I don't know what they'd do if I turned up one day - it's not my style to create unnecessary conflict) so I can't share comparisons. I need to check though and see if they are offering the Woo products to other retailers now as I know some of their headphones are at Tivoli Audio in Hawthorn now.


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## skeptic

moatsart said:


> Mainline vs WA2 - Any comparions?


 
  
 Honestly, there's no comparison as I hear them.  Mainline is in a different league from the standpoints of both sonics and design.  I owned a WA3 for many years, which is a lower powered, slightly lower resolution version of the WA2 (which I have also spent some time with).  As others have attested to in the crack thread, the crack w/ speedball generally outperforms the WA2/WA3 in both detail and dynamics, making for more engaging listening.  Woo's OTL house sound is a bit more full, tubey and laid back (which some perceive as slow), with more obvious bass bloom.  Consider the circuit: notwithstanding the price tag, Woo does not load its driver tubes with constant current, a la speedball, and there isn't room in the chassis to add nice low ESR/low dissipation film output caps, which are a very common user upgrade to crack.  (Take a look at http://www.diyhifisupply.com/opcart/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_90_99 for the difference in signal dissipation between electrolytics, or even blackgates, and the affordable obbligatos I'm running in my crack.)
  
 Mainline respectively bests a hotrodded crack's sonics, as it should, across the board (see my detailed description on page 1).  Recall that mainline is very similar in design to the ecp l-2, which sold for $2,500.  To me, there's simply no contest between the mainline and WA2/WA3, but as always, there is a high degree of subjectivity in this hobby, and reasonable minds can differ as to what they find most pleasing.


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## MoatsArt

Bottlehead here I come, right back where I started from......

Give me a year of saving my pocket money and I will have Mainline gracing my desk and pleasuring my T1s.

Tube rolling is limited, right? Don't want to go broke through tube and cap rolling again


----------



## Loquah

moatsart said:


> Bottlehead here I come, right back where I started from......
> 
> Give me a year of saving my pocket money and I will have Mainline gracing my desk and pleasuring my T1s.
> 
> Tube rolling is limited, right? Don't want to go broke through tube and cap rolling again


 
  
 You'll love it!!!
  
 And yes, tube rolling is completely limited. There are no alternatives to the 6C45s that I'm aware of and the 12AU7 is a power regulating tube only which brings no rolling benefits (I'm actually choosing to use new Genalex 12Au7 rather than putting hours on a Cleartop because the Cleartop bring no benefits in the Mainline circuit that I can hear)


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## MoatsArt

Anyone want to get me an early 40th birthday present?


----------



## lljayll

skeptic said:


> Honestly, there's no comparison as I hear them.  Mainline is in a different league from the standpoints of both sonics and design.  I owned a WA3 for many years, which is a lower powered, slightly lower resolution version of the WA2 (which I have also spent some time with).  As others have attested to in the crack thread, *the crack w/ speedball generally outperforms the WA2*/WA3 in both detail and dynamics, making for more engaging listening.  Woo's OTL house sound is a bit more full, tubey and laid back (which some perceive as slow), with more obvious bass bloom.  Consider the circuit: notwithstanding the price tag, Woo does not load its driver tubes with constant current, a la speedball, and there isn't room in the chassis to add nice low ESR/low dissipation film output caps, which are a very common user upgrade to crack.  (Take a look at http://www.diyhifisupply.com/opcart/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_90_99 for the difference in signal dissipation between electrolytics, or even blackgates, and the affordable obbligatos I'm running in my crack.)
> 
> Mainline respectively bests a hotrodded crack's sonics, as it should, across the board (see my detailed description on page 1).  Recall that mainline is very similar in design to the ecp l-2, which sold for $2,500.  To me, there's simply no contest between the mainline and WA2/WA3, but as always, there is a high degree of subjectivity in this hobby, and reasonable minds can differ as to what they find most pleasing.


 
  I agree with this 100%. The bottlehead crack is no joke and very hard to beat. I'm a little mad at myself for letting it go. I guess the mainline will be my next amp.


----------



## Doc B.

skeptic said:


> .  Recall that mainline is very similar in design to the ecp l-2, which sold for $2,500.




Mainline was derived from our own $7500 6C45pi based 'big preamp/headphone amp' from 2003, designed quite a few years before the l-2 came about. And of course the spud concept goes back to the original WE417A based spud amp, built at a VALVE meeting in my basement around about 1994-5. Mainline is not a spud, as we use a hybrid shunt regulator that adds one more tube to the amp. I wasn't aware of the l-2. It is rather flattering to see others use a topology we have pioneered.


----------



## Loquah

doc b. said:


> Mainline was derived from our own $7500 6C45pi based 'big preamp/headphone amp' from 2003, designed quite a few years before the l-2 came about. And of course the spud concept goes back to the original WE417A based spud amp, built at a VALVE meeting in my basement around about 1994-5. Mainline is not a spud, as we use a hybrid shunt regulator that adds one more tube to the amp. I wasn't aware of the l-2. It is rather flattering to see others use a topology we have pioneered.


 
  
 Doc, can you confirm in layman's terms what the 12AU7 is doing in the circuit? I understand that it's involved in power management of some sort, but would love to have a better basic understanding.


----------



## skeptic

doc b. said:


> Mainline was derived from our own $7500 6C45pi based 'big preamp/headphone amp' from 2003, designed quite a few years before the l-2 came about. And of course the spud concept goes back to the original WE417A based spud amp, built at a VALVE meeting in my basement around about 1994-5. Mainline is not a spud, as we use a hybrid shunt regulator that adds one more tube to the amp. I wasn't aware of the l-2. It is rather flattering to see others use a topology we have pioneered.


 
  
 Very cool!  I recalled reading about your 2003 statement amp but had no idea the mainline's roots reached back to the early 90's.  Also, thanks for clarifying to the extent my post caused any inadvertent confusion about the origins of the design.  I only thought to mention the l-2 because its gotten a fair amount of positive attention on Innerfidelity, etc. and helps to affirm (in my mind at least) the quality and value of the mainline.


----------



## Loquah

Hey everyone, things have been quiet on this thread for a little while so I thought I'd share a nice little confirmation of the Mainline's awesomeness.
  
 I read Tyll's article about the Philips Golden Ears challenge recently and thought I'd give it a go. Tyll reported needing to go to his "reference" gear for the later tests so I was interested to see how my setup (and my ears) would go. I can happily report that the Mainline was more than up to the task ad helped me (eventually) complete all of the challenges including some of the golden ears tests where the differences are as little as 1.2dB variations. I was using the Matrix X-Sabre DAC, Bottlehead Mainline, and Beyer T1s as my reference setup and the Mainline did a stellar job!


----------



## HeadJammie

I 





skeptic said:


> Honestly, there's no comparison as I hear them.  Mainline is in a different league from the standpoints of both sonics and design.  I owned a WA3 for many years, which is a lower powered, slightly lower resolution version of the WA2 (which I have also spent some time with).  As others have attested to in the crack thread, the crack w/ speedball generally outperforms the WA2/WA3 in both detail and dynamics, making for more engaging listening.  Woo's OTL house sound is a bit more full, tubey and laid back (which some perceive as slow), with more obvious bass bloom.  Consider the circuit: notwithstanding the price tag, Woo does not load its driver tubes with constant current, a la speedball, and there isn't room in the chassis to add nice low ESR/low dissipation film output caps, which are a very common user upgrade to crack.  (Take a look at http://www.diyhifisupply.com/opcart/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_90_99 for the difference in signal dissipation between electrolytics, or even blackgates, and the affordable obbligatos I'm running in my crack.)
> 
> Mainline respectively bests a hotrodded crack's sonics, as it should, across the board (see my detailed description on page 1).  Recall that mainline is very similar in design to the ecp l-2, which sold for $2,500.  To me, there's simply no contest between the mainline and WA2/WA3, but as always, there is a high degree of subjectivity in this hobby, and reasonable minds can differ as to what they find most pleasing.




I have both the WA3 and Crack with Speedball. I have a Western Electric 421A in both and can definitely say that to my ears the Crack with Speedball is much better when I am listening to either my Sennheiser HD700 or HD650.


----------



## JamieMcC

Lachlan did I see you are thinking about hot rodding your sex what sort of mods have you mind?
 I have been following mcandmar posting amongst others on the bhf very interesting.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Lachlan did I see you are thinking about hot rodding your sex what sort of mods have you mind?
> I have been following mcandmar posting amongst others on the bhf very interesting.


 
  
 It's a distant plan, but I think it will just be a few upgraded caps and maybe a 4-pin XLR socket instead of the 6.3mm, but only for convenience, not balanced operation or anything like that


----------



## HPiper

I was thinking about the Crack but after reading some comments on and reading about the SEX amp I think that is actually the one I am more interested in. It does look significantly harder to build though. Can anybody comment on how much more time it takes to build? IS there a lot greater chance of messing something up on it?


----------



## Loquah

hpiper said:


> I was thinking about the Crack but after reading some comments on and reading about the SEX amp I think that is actually the one I am more interested in. It does look significantly harder to build though. Can anybody comment on how much more time it takes to build? IS there a lot greater chance of messing something up on it?


 
  
 There's nothing that's particularly more complicated to mount or solder - the only risk is not following instructions. If you are patient and careful I'd say it's no harder than the Crack.
  
 In terms of time taken, I would say it takes 2.5-3x as long to build as the Crack.


----------



## Zashoomin

loquah said:


> There's nothing that's particularly more complicated to mount or solder - the only risk is not following instructions. If you are patient and careful I'd say it's no harder than the Crack.
> 
> In terms of time taken, I would say it takes 2.5-3x as long to build as the Crack.


 
 I would have to agree here.  Honestly it isn't more "difficult" per say but just more complex.  I mean everything is just as simple, but there are more parts so it is easier to get confused.  The instructions are like heaven on earth as always so if you follow everything it says to the letter you will not have any problems and I am sure that it will be a very fun first project.  As for build time I would say it can take closer to 5x as long for me anyway but that was with all the upgrades.


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

zashoomin said:


> I would have to agree here.  Honestly it isn't more "difficult" per say but just more complex.  I mean everything is just as simple, but there are more parts so it is easier to get confused.  The instructions are like heaven on earth as always so if you follow everything it says to the letter you will not have any problems and I am sure that it will be a very fun first project.  As for build time I would say it can take closer to 5x as long for me anyway but that was with all the upgrades.


 
 I built both about two months apart. Caveat: I built the S.E.X. from scratch with both C4S and impedance switch upgrades applied. This is NOT - I repeat, *NOT* - recommended, because you have to sort through several separate manuals and decide how to modify the stock build as you go.
  
 I mainly did this because I got into trouble when upgrading the Crack with the Speedball, because I had built it too well. I barely had enough leads left to bend certain caps out of the way, and desoldering my super-crimped joints was a real pain! That said, in retrospect this is not at all required. Nothing needs to get bent out of the way to make room in the S.E.X., the upgrades are simple to install, and I strongly recommend building stock first so all of the pictorial instructions are correct.
  
 I know, I know, "do as I say, not as I do..." 
  
 If I had to describe the build, I would say simply: *The S.E.X. is just more Crack.* It's more complex like a larger LEGO model is more complex: it just has more parts. Assuming you know how to put these parts together, it just takes longer. Use a decent iron, make sure you have rosin/flux core solder (Kester 44 is my standby), *be patient*, triple check your build is identical to the final picture(s), and it's definitely possible to build the S.E.X. first.
  
 Caveats: Because you make more connections if your soldering technique isn't perfect there's a higher chance you might get a cold joint. Also, since there is more going on it's possible to miss something, and tracking down issues is a bit more complicated.


----------



## Doc B.

silvertrumpet999 said:


> *be patient*,


 
  
 That is_ the_ most important bit of advice.


----------



## brunk

doc b. said:


> That is_ the_ most important bit of advice.


 
 Yeah, no kidding. Especially when you start filling out BOMs and ordering off Mouser and Digi-Key. Impatience there will cost you not only time, but money too. I now find myself waiting to press the order button for 24-48 hours in case there is something i forgot or need to adjust. 9/10 times there is something


----------



## Zashoomin

brunk said:


> Yeah, no kidding. Especially when you start filling out BOMs and ordering off Mouser and Digi-Key. Impatience there will cost you not only time, but money too. I now find myself waiting to press the order button for 24-48 hours in case there is something i forgot or need to adjust. 9/10 times there is something


 
 Ya I wait and keep thinking man I must have something missing and finally I hit the order button and the next day I find out I missed one item.  Happens every single time.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Ill figure it out eventually.


----------



## mcandmar

zashoomin said:


> Ya I wait and keep thinking man I must have something missing and finally I hit the order button and the next day I find out I missed one item.  Happens every single time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Then there is the other extreme where you get basket bloat.  The longer you hold out the larger the basket becomes


----------



## Rayvolution

I built the s.e.x as my first diy and I got it the first try. It is kinda scary when you first plug it in but as long as you just go over your work again you'll most likely be successful. Like doc said, patience is key. I took 3 days to build the main my and then installed the c4s a few days later.


----------



## brunk

zashoomin said:


> Ya I wait and keep thinking man I must have something missing and finally I hit the order button and the next day I find out I missed one item.  Happens every single time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah hehe. My solution is to double check everything (optimal parts, stock, quantity, price, dimensions), especially if i have the boards on hand with digital calipers. Then I'll go through the build in my mind and figure what I need that isn't directly obvious. Once done, that's when my 24-48 hour holding period begins 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





mcandmar said:


> Then there is the other extreme where you get basket bloat.  The longer you hold out the larger the basket becomes


 
 Yeah I've had that happen too lol. The bright side is that you can use the parts for future builds, assuming you dig in your parts bin or have it noted in a spreadsheet beforehand...


----------



## skeptic

It just kills me that mouser won't let you modify your order after a couple of hours, even though they frequently take two days to get it out the door.  Nothing like paying double shipping because you forgot $.50 worth of resisters.


----------



## brunk

skeptic said:


> It just kills me that mouser won't let you modify your order after a couple of hours, even though they frequently take two days to get it out the door.  Nothing like paying double shipping because you forgot $.50 worth of resisters.


 
 I have been lucky a few times where I will instantly email them with the adjustment i need (same email as the order confirmation), and they would either delay the shipping, or send the extra parts out with free shipping. Doing the live chat if it's available may yield quicker results too. I also spend a good chunk of $$$ with them, so I may get treated differently too...
  
 It sure is a pain in the arse though when you find out too late 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT: Just checked my past 6 months order history and have spent a little shy of $2k, so preferential treatment is a good possibility lol.


----------



## Doc B.

Welcome to our world. Everyone around here is trained to ask everyone else in the office if they need anything before firing off an order. Otherwise we sometimes see two different orders to the same vendor on the same day. It really sucks when it's for the same part...


----------



## HPiper

In my younger days I hand built small circuit boards for a living, so I am least worried about the soldering aspects of it. It has been a while but I think like most things, it will come back pretty quick.


----------



## brunk

^^ or when you receive the duplicate items, mail them back and they say it isn't in "retail condition" (no refund) because of a missing screw or torn package when you didn't even breathe on it.
  
 Looking at you Digi-Key


----------



## Armaegis

mcandmar said:


> Then there is the other extreme where you get basket bloat.  The longer you hold out the larger the basket becomes


 
  
 The other day I walked into the local electronics shop because I needed to pick up some XLRs. Maybe $20 worth.
  
  
  
  
 Half an hour and $200 later...


----------



## Loquah

I received my HE-500s today and eagerly compared the Mainline and S.E.X. driving these planars with some fascinating results. Normally I would have described the S.E.X. as slightly brighter or perhaps drier sounding than the Mainline which is very smooth despite great treble extension. Driving the HE-500s though the S.E.X. actually sounds warmer than the Mainline with the Mainline having significantly more sparkle in the higher registers.
  
 I've switched back and forth a few times and although the Mainline is not a particularly high powered / high gain amplifier (I'm using around -13.5dB attenuation) it sounds like it has plenty of oomph for the HE-500s. The S.E.X. has miles of headroom as you'd expect, but the Mainline keeps up in dynamics and power while outclassing the S.E.X. noticeably with its refinement and resolution on the HE-500s. It's interesting to note that I think the performance gap between the Mainline and S.E.X. is probably greater with the HE-500s than with a dynamic can like the T1s.
  
 I wouldn't expect the Mainline to drive something like the HE-6, but can now definitively confirm that it more than holds its own with both LCD-2s and HE-500s having tried it now with both.


----------



## wewewho77

Nice mini review with the Hifiman Lachlan. Thank you


----------



## Loquah

It was very mini! And you're very welcome!


----------



## skeptic

So I couldn't help myself and gave into temptation.  Trying to improve something in which I find 0 fault is the definition of a fools errand.  I tried to resist, but the lure of a unique and theoretically unparalleled pair of new output caps for my mainline ultimately prevailed over reason and logic, and I went ahead and ordered up a pair of the 10uf 310V custom RTI teflon caps from the very limited stock available through http://tctubes.com/teflon-capacitor.aspx  
  
 As noted and depicted on on the bh forums (in one of the crack cap threads), these are manufactured for use in a serious megabuck preamp, and the specs happen to be _perfect _to replace the stock film caps in the mainline.  Looks like they hit my mailbox this afternoon.  I'm totally excited notwithstanding the recommended 500 hours of burn in time!


----------



## JamieMcC

Mike, your not alone I also succumbed to temptation (I must be mad) so far they have 150hr on the burn-in rig (Grainger method) and about 50hrs in situ. Sounding simply stunning so far. Thanks for the Mainline info its defiantly on the to do list and looks like THE ideal application for them. By the way my uf values match exactly @ 10.34uf
  
 I might just add that my purchase was not specifically for use with the Crack and represents more of longer term investment for future builds to come.


----------



## Tom1510

Wow, this looks very impressive!
  
 I hope you don't mind asking, but what kind of potmeter is that?


----------



## JamieMcC

tom1510 said:


> Wow, this looks very impressive!
> 
> I hope you don't mind asking, but what kind of potmeter is that?


 
 It is a Valab 23 step attenuator I found it quiet a nice upgrade from the stock pot considering its relatively inexpensive price.


----------



## Loquah

@skeptic, please share your impressions. I can't wait to hear if there's the potential for the Mainline to sound even better!


----------



## skeptic

Thanks for sharing the pics of your installation in the crack Jamie!  I'm thrilled to hear that you're hearing good things out of the RTI's.  What's the total combination of coupling caps you've got in each channel now?
  
 My RTI's did indeed arrive and are now in place in my mainline, singing sweetly!  As depicted, they're a little too large to sit down between the C4S boards and output transformers, where the stock coupling caps previously sat, so I ended up mounting them just above/overhanging the c4s boards.  They are "anchored" via adhesive zip tie mounts stuck to the outer metal edge of the output transformers.  I'll have to keep an eye out to see whether the adhesive really holds over time, but the caps are actually supporting their own weight via fat, rigid leads.  
  
 The sound is supposed to change quite a bit over the next few hundred hours, but my sense is that the mainline, with the RTI's, already sounds a tiny bit more transparent than stock, with slightly increased micro-dynamics and possibly even cleaner transients.  From the limited articles I've read on the subject (e.g. http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.htm ) this seems consistent with teflon caps' ultra low dielectric absorption and dissipation factor.  I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how they mature with burn in and will make a point of reporting back on that.  The mainline is so good stock, that I certainly wouldn't suggest this is a necessary upgrade, but these are clearly outstanding, ideally spec'd coupling caps for the mainline, if any of you are so inclined!


----------



## JamieMcC

Mike, I am pretty excited about how the caps work out in the Mainline for you and will be looking forward to hearing some further impression when you have a few more hours on them. Nice install by the way, with the cap leads straight to the terminals.
  
 Just a thought, I checked with Tyler at TC Tubes prior to installing mine, I do not know how the mainline is laid out but as you read the print on the cap from left to right, this indicates intended directionality. With a output cap location in mind, the output of the cap would be the end on the right hand side when viewed so that you are reading the print. Without turning off my Crack I cant remember which way round it is however one lead is longer than the other and this also corresponds to the direction.
  
 My Crack is currently running 104uf in each channel this is made up of three capacitors two 47uf PIO Valab Fast Power (polypropylene in oil) and one RTI 10uf Teflon. This is working out rather well and been a lot of fun so far experimenting. My plan is to keep the Teflon in place for a while to help with burning in then remove it for a day or two in order give just the Valab caps a try on their own.
  
 Jamie.


----------



## skeptic

Thank for the reply Jamie - that sounds like a really nice cap combo you're running in your crack!  Wish I could easily jump the pond and arrange to meet up and give her a listen. 
  
 The issue of the proper orientation of non-polarized caps has me a bit confused.  I read up a bit on it before putting mine in, and per http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=2366.0 and a few other sources I stumbled on, the general advice seems to be that you should connect the "outside foil" lead of a non-polarized coupling cap to the plate of the tube.  I also read that the outside foil lead is often, but not always, the short one (see, e.g: http://www.v-cap.com/installation-notes.php).  I couldn't find anything confirming this holds true for the RTI's - so I just guessed, perhaps incorrectly.  I think I may call Tyler or even RTI directly and see if I can get some confirmation on which lead goes to the inner vs. outer foil.  PJ spells out a way of testing this in the thread linked above, but I'm not sure exactly how one goes about "putting some ac across the cap."
  
 For safety, I should really pick up some appropriately sized sleeves for the leads anyways - so I'm not at all opposed to uninstalling and reversing them.  
  
 Edit - just spoke with Tyler (really a nice guy), and he confirmed that Jamie has the right of it.  He did test the caps on his scope, and the long lead is the outside foil (opposite of vcaps).  Tyler explained there's no harm in running them backwards, but you can get slightly better noise performance the other way around.  Thanks again for calling this to my attention Jamie!


----------



## Loquah

Wow, skeptic. You've really piqued my interest now. I'm looking forward to any further impressions you'd like to share as they burn in


----------



## Misterrogers

Arg, me too. Just ordered a pair for my mainline. Btw, once I get my custom enclosure completed, I'll upload some pictures. I went with a high gloss black power coated top plate, and a high gloss finish on Amboyna Burl for the case.


----------



## skeptic

Nice ^  Please share some glamour shots with us when she's all put together!


----------



## JamieMcC

I have tried a couple of times now to contact RTI via their contact from but it keeps crashing for me I am wondering f its because I am UK based. I was hoping to quote them the part number for the Teflon Capacitors GHC10625 to see if it was possible to get the spec sheet or some more info about them. Anyone US based care to give it try see if it will work for you?
  
 http://www.rtie.com/category-s/65.htm
  
  
  
 Just looked in at TC Tubes to get the number they only have 10 left I think there were 40 when I brought mine!


----------



## MoatsArt

Has anyone tried driving the following 'phones with the Mainline?
  
 LCD XC (currently own)
 TH900 (contemplating future purchase)
 AKG K812 (contemplating future purchase)
 ATH W3000ANV (contemplating future purchase)
  
 Ideally I would like a great "all-rounder" amp to drive them  all.  Another strong contender is the Auralic Taurus MKII, so if you have heard both amps, I would particularly like your input.
  
 Cheers and thanks
  
 Nathan


----------



## Loquah

I will be able to try the TH-900s at an upcoming meet here in Melbourne, Nathan and will be glad to let you know how they pair with the Mainline. They're a great headphone, but I have found mixed results when I've auditioned with some other amplifiers so far...


----------



## MoatsArt

Thanks Lachlan - Greatly appreciated. I'm certain my T1s will sound great with the Mainline!


----------



## JamieMcC

Mike, I don't know how to describe what's going on with my Crack at the moment, only that its really neat! I use my laptop in the evening to catch up on admin, normally listening to music while doing so, but this evening the music coming out has just been just particularly captivating. The play list has been on shuffle and each new track just sounds so fresh and clear (sorry for the lack of a better description). its been so distracting in the end I packed in trying to work and am just enjoying listening now.


----------



## Misterrogers

Received and install a pair of the RTI caps in my Mainline. It's early (only 5-6 hours), but already I consider this an upgrade to the stock 10u Daytons. They need to burn-in for sure, but detail, separation and tonality have all ticked up a notch. The lower frequencies are interesting; initial listening had the bass take a step back in clarity and impact. Right around ~5 hours, they started coming into focus. If I had the funds I'd pick some of these up for my Crack. When the dust settles I think these will prove to have been a very good cap/deal.


----------



## JamieMcC

From my aural bliss yesterday today is the exact opposite really muddy distorted and loose to the point I turned the amp off and checked to see if anything had come loose inside. Fingers crossed it will come good with some further burning in I have had similar experiences while burning in film caps and it never lasted very long before coming back into focus.


----------



## FlySweep

jamiemcc said:


> From my aural bliss yesterday today is the exact opposite really muddy distorted and loose to the point I turned the amp off and checked to see if anything had come loose inside. Fingers crossed it will come good with some further burning in I have had similar experiences while burning in film caps and it never lasted very long before coming back into focus.


 
  
 Yep.. I had this happen with my BH Crack (w/ film caps) as well.. it sounded really warm, thick, and distorted for a short while.. I too thought it was a tube or something up with the Crack.. it passed.. and sounded even better on the other side.  I'm pretty sure it's the caps breaking in.


----------



## skeptic

Sounds like I'm in for some interesting twists and turns as these RTI's burn in.  Thanks for the impressions and updates guys!
  
 I did finally have a chance to reverse my caps, and to cover the exposed leads with heat shrink, and it got me thinking about safety issues and the exposed underbelly of my mainline - which resides on a table top that is now within the reach of my somewhat rebellious 4yo daughter.  I've been keeping it unplugged when I'm not at home but am now eyeing blumenstein's bases and acrylic bottom plates.  (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/amplifierbases/)  Nice looking, and it seems like this might go a long way towards preventing a terrible accident/shock if the amp were ever pulled off the table.
  
 Work has been hectic, and I'm heading out of town tomorrow, but I'm looking forward to more listening and the maturation of the new caps when I get back.


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> Sounds like I'm in for some interesting twists and turns as these RTI's burn in.  Thanks for the impressions and updates guys!
> 
> I did finally have a chance to reverse my caps, and to cover the exposed leads with heat shrink, and it got me thinking about safety issues and the exposed underbelly of my mainline - which resides on a table top that is now within the reach of my somewhat rebellious 4yo daughter.  I've been keeping it unplugged when I'm not at home but am now eyeing blumenstein's bases and acrylic bottom plates.  (http://www.blumensteinaudio.com/amplifierbases/)  Nice looking, and it seems like this might go a long way towards preventing a terrible accident/shock if the amp were ever pulled off the table.
> 
> Work has been hectic, and I'm heading out of town tomorrow, but I'm looking forward to more listening and the maturation of the new caps when I get back.


 

 Mike that sounds like a good idea re the base especially with a little one around they are so inquisitive at that age. Only last weekend I had a little accident. I had half of my morning cup of tea go over on bed side table, the Crack is on the table also and was unscathed but my 20 odd year old Marantz speaker amp lives under it and didn't fair so well, it was running at the time and is toast now, it made a quiet a racket as it died even let out a puff of smoke, from the noise I thought the speakers would be shot also but they seem to be ok. It actually served as a bit of a wake up call regarding safety and my own little one who if was her would have most probably got a cloth and tried  to clean up while all was still live.


----------



## Doc B.

Kids do throw a lot of new angles at you. I remember having to get a gun safe, gates for the stairs, covers for electrical outlets, latches for cabinets, etc. Looking at our customer demographics there are probably a whole lot of you getting near or in the midst of starting a family.
  
 At the risk of sounding obvious tube amps get hot, use high voltage and have breakable glass parts. They are definitely not toys for kids, even with a cage on the top and a cover on the bottom. Covers are items that we mention in the manuals as being something the builder should install if they feel it necessary for safety in their particular environment. Just getting them up out of reach of small people can be 90% of the solution. That said, my kids survived in a house full of them that had no covers or cages and sometimes were just breadboards with clipleads. So did a cat and a few different dogs (though we did always keep the goats outside). I think perhaps even more important than covers is educating kids to be safe around these potentially hazardous things much as we do around a stove, a strange dog or a swimming pool.
  
 Thankfully I am a recently-become empty nester. Now we can leave dangerous stuff sitting on the dining table, swear profusely, have wild sex on the kitchen counter and yes, leave the covers off our tube amps. Getting old ain't all that bad.


----------



## Armaegis

I think having sex on the tube amps is till a bad idea though... but hey, your house your rules


----------



## JamieMcC

Yey, my Crack has come back in focus and is sounding glorious, I was a little worried it might take a long old while to do so.
  
 And man I just noticed the scream of a trumpet is now seriously, blow your socks off good.


----------



## Doc B.

armaegis said:


> I think having sex on the tube amps is till a bad idea though... but hey, your house your rules h34r:




Right now we have S.E.X. on the table in the home theater, twice. Stereomour runs the mains, one S.E.X. runs the surrounds and one runs the center channel .


----------



## JamieMcC

Just a follow up from the last post on burn in progress with the RTI Teflons. The glorious sound I last reported didn't last long and the sound quality continues to be very inconsistent, occasionally when I check I get a fleeting glimpse of what's to come, however it has never lasted more than a couple of tracks then its back to just plain muddy and generally dreadful.  
  
 Good things come to those who wait.
  
 Tick Tock.


----------



## Misterrogers

Ha! Very similar experience here. To hasten it along, I've keep up a long playlist even when I've stepped away. Pretty amazing really; I'd be concerned if this wasn't generally known/understood as normal for large teflon caps.


----------



## Misterrogers

Starting to settle down now. I estimate I'm > 100 Hrs. The bass has focused and tightened; though I believe it has more to give deeper into burn-in/optimizing.


----------



## Misterrogers

My custom Mainline enclosure arrived from the craftsman today. Couldn't be happier with how it turned out. I tracked down a slab of Amboyna Burl Veneer that had the desired figuring and had these made for Mainline and my Crack. A picture's worth a thousand words


----------



## jodgey4

misterrogers said:


> My custom Mainline enclosure arrived from the craftsman today. Couldn't be happier with how it turned out. I tracked down a slab of Amboyna Burl Veneer that had the desired figuring and had these made for Mainline and my Crack. A picture's worth a thousand words


 
 WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW


----------



## Douger333

+2!!!!!!! True family heirlooms...


----------



## MoatsArt

Beautful work there misterrogers.  Will have to tuck that veneer idea away.
  
 Well, I am sick again and am selling all my gear.  Will downgrade to the best bang for buck combo I  know - T90 + Crack.  Bring it on!
  
 Cheers
  
 Nathan


----------



## Loquah

moatsart said:


> Beautful work there misterrogers.  Will have to tuck that veneer idea away.
> 
> Well, I am sick again and am selling all my gear.  Will downgrade to the best bang for buck combo I  know - T90 + Crack.  Bring it on!
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry to hear, Nathan, but at least you'll have a great setup to enjoy!


----------



## JamieMcC

Magnificent Misterrodgers, simply magnificent.
  
 Congratulations.
  
 You Mainline guys are setting some really high standards.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

misterrogers said:


> My custom Mainline enclosure arrived from the craftsman today. Couldn't be happier with how it turned out. I tracked down a slab of Amboyna Burl Veneer that had the desired figuring and had these made for Mainline and my Crack. A picture's worth a thousand words



 


I'm speechless.....


----------



## bigfatpaulie

misterrogers said:


> My custom Mainline enclosure arrived from the craftsman today. Couldn't be happier with how it turned out. I tracked down a slab of Amboyna Burl Veneer that had the desired figuring and had these made for Mainline and my Crack. A picture's worth a thousand words


 
  
  
 Holy crap!  That's outstanding!


----------



## JamieMcC

Misterrodgers yours is the first picture I can remember seeing that shows the control overlay nicely, on a lot of the pics it kinds looks like a thinner plastic affair. However with your pic its clear to see its actually more substantial than I first thought. Its still hard to tell but is the writing for the controls engraved into the overlay sheet? I see the black overlay has a white layer underneath and have seen similar products done this way before?


----------



## Misterrogers

Thanks all! The work was done by John Rutter - the gentleman who makes the stock enclosures for all (I believe, not sure though) Bottlehead products. John was outstanding to deal with, a real class dude. As I suspected that other would appreciate his work, I asked if he'd be willing to do more of it for others. He is, and you can PM for his contact information. Of you do decide to pursue John for custom work, you must be patient. He runs a business during the day, so such efforts are done as time allows. Further, a finish like mine takes many, many coats with curing in-between. To anyone considering him, I wouldn't hesitate. Great job John! Here's a photo of Crack with matching enclosure:


----------



## Doc B.

Yup, JR is the guy who makes our stock bases, and he has made many beautiful custom ones for customers over the years. Here's this week's shipment -



And yes, the control panel is laser engraved.


----------



## Loquah

Loving the custom bases and getting mighty envious!!
  
 Not meaning to change the topic, I have just finished a short comparison of the S.E.X. and Mainline driving the HE-500 headphones. A few pages back I think I wrote that the Mainline was superior to the S.E.X. with the HE-500s, but with further listening I think I've changed my tune. Here's what I just wrote in the HE-500 thread:
  
 I had a few moments to directly compare the Bottlehead Mainline and S.E.X. amps driving the HE-500s this morning. Here are my quick impressions for those who are interested:
  
*Mainline*
  

More refined sound with a certain delicacy and texture to the mids that's not present with the S.E.X.
Seems to bring a slight emphasis to the treble that I find a little bit edgy at times (not that the treble itself is edgy, just that it seems to peak right where the HE-500s are already _*slightly*_ peaky)
Soundstage more open and airy
  
*S.E.X.*
  

Smoother sound
More forward, creamy vocals
Lush and liquid sounding
Possibly slightly more bass presence and impact, but it's very, very subtle if at all and may depend on the output setting of the Mainline too
  
 I think in the end, this is a question of preference. The Mainline is technically superior in it's reproduction, but the S.E.X. makes the HE-500s become everything that I bought them for - lush, liquid, engaging, but still detailed. If you were choosing one just to drive the HE-500s, I personally would highly recommend the S.E.X. as a bang-for-buck no-brainer. If you're looking for an amp that can also get the absolute most from flagship dynamic cans then I'd recommend the Mainline. Ideally of course, you could just buy both!


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Loving the custom bases and getting mighty envious!!
> 
> Not meaning to change the topic, I have just finished a short comparison of the S.E.X. and Mainline driving the HE-500 headphones. A few pages back I think I wrote that the Mainline was superior to the S.E.X. with the HE-500s, but with further listening I think I've changed my tune. Here's what I just wrote in the HE-500 thread:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice balanced write up as always.
  
 How are you liking the HE-500s in comparison to the T1's is there much between them, I do wonder just how different two makes of phone can be at this level?


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Nice balanced write up as always.
> 
> How are you liking the HE-500s in comparison to the T1's is there much between them, I do wonder just how different two makes of phone can be at this level?


 
  
 I'd say the HE-500s are a step behind the T1s in terms overall transparency resolution, and the soundstage is quite a bit smaller on the HE-500s, but the T1s can't match the HE-500s for their lush, liquid presentation of the mids. I've modified the grille and fabric on the outside of my HE-500s to remove the ringing and also keep them lush and intimate (I tried no fabric, but they became like a not-quite-as-good T1) so that now they are a great compliment for the T1s.
  
 I have the T1s for my super hi-fidelity listening and my HE-500s my "kick back and just enjoy" listening. I also find myself reaching for the HE-500s quite often for gaming (when I'm not using the FA-011 LEs), but the T1s also hold their own here so it's not really a reflection on them so much as a pure preference towards the smoother sound of the HE-500s being preferable when there are slightly grating sounds (like gunfire or poorly recorded voices in the commentary for NBA 2K14) coming from a game.


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> I'd say the HE-500s are a step behind the T1s in terms overall transparency resolution, and the soundstage is quite a bit smaller on the HE-500s, but the T1s can't match the HE-500s for their lush, liquid presentation of the mids. I've modified the grille and fabric on the outside of my HE-500s to remove the ringing and also keep them lush and intimate (I tried no fabric, but they became like a not-quite-as-good T1) so that now they are a great compliment for the T1s.
> 
> I have the T1s for my super hi-fidelity listening and my HE-500s my "kick back and just enjoy" listening. I also find myself reaching for the HE-500s quite often for gaming (when I'm not using the FA-011 LEs), but the T1s also hold their own here so it's not really a reflection on them so much as a pure preference towards the smoother sound of the HE-500s being preferable when there are slightly grating sounds (like gunfire or poorly recorded voices in the commentary for NBA 2K14) coming from a game.


 

 Thanks that's very interesting.  I did notice after the mods made on the Crack my T1's mids noticeably improved, though I could never call them lush they have definitely received a much needed kiss of life and a wee bit of soul in their presentation, though while ok prior they were definitely more on the cooler side and nowhere near as involving.


----------



## Loquah

Exactly! The Mainline really helped the T1s in that regard too (extra weight in notes), but interestingly something about the S.E.X. creates extra weight in the HE-500s whereas it's the opposite with T1s!?


----------



## Loquah

Does anyone know the best place for someone in Australia (me) to order a high quality pot / attenuator for the S.E.X. I think Valab or similar is what I need.


----------



## murrays

loquah said:


> Does anyone know the best place for someone in Australia (me) to order a high quality pot / attenuator for the S.E.X. I think Valab or similar is what I need.



 

You can get DACT pots from Soundlabs Group http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/DACT-CT2-2/DACT+Stepped+Attenuator+-+Stereo. They are certainly a good quality, but not cheap. I don't know what value you will need, probably one of the higher ones. I have a 10k one in my solid-state headphone amp.

(edit: corrected URL link that was not displaying. M.S.)


----------



## JamieMcC

I brought mine from here it was a 23 step 100k log stereo ladder one I believe the 50k ladder one will also work fine but suggest checking on the bh forum.
  
  
 http://stores.ebay.com/Vintage-Audio-Lab?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


----------



## Loquah

murrays said:


> loquah said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know the best place for someone in Australia (me) to order a high quality pot / attenuator for the S.E.X. I think Valab or similar is what I need.
> ...


 
  
  


jamiemcc said:


> I brought mine from here it was a 23 step 100k log stereo ladder one I believe the 50k ladder one will also work fine but suggest checking on the bh forum.
> 
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/Vintage-Audio-Lab?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


 
  
 Thank you to both of you. Jamie, I'm currently asking the gurus on the BH forum and will share a summary of their wisdom over here. Murrays, thank you for the link. It might be slightly pricier than I wanted, but is some nice food for thought - maybe I'll hot-rod my S.E.X. with one of these uber attenuators and some uber caps!?


----------



## spacequeen7

it was so hard to resist the urge ,...inbound 

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/310919180801


----------



## JamieMcC

spacequeen7 said:


> it was so hard to resist the urge ,...inbound
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310919180801


 
  
 Sweet looks like it will be a nice upgrade. Looking forward to hearing more when you have it installed.


----------



## spacequeen7

I think you infected me with the "tweak flu" ...still waiting for my Dayton's to burn in and when that happen I will give Obbligato oil films a shot


----------



## mcandmar

> maybe I'll hot-rod my S.E.X. with one of these uber attenuators and some uber caps!?


 
  
 Do it, hell i might even buy the caps for you, that's how much i want to hear your opinion on a modded S.E.X. amp


----------



## Loquah

mcandmar said:


> Do it, hell i might even buy the caps for you, that's how much i want to hear your opinion on a modded S.E.X. amp


 
  
 The caps are such an unknown area for me and Australia has no local retailers for high quality caps which makes it a bit tricky. Shall I send you my address?


----------



## murrays

loquah said:


> The caps are such an unknown area for me and Australia has no local retailers for high quality caps which makes it a bit tricky. Shall I send you my address?


 

 The SoundLabs Group website that I linked for the DACT pots are in Australia. They have Auricap and Mundorf capacitors.  I had good service with the pots, however I have not bought any caps off them (yet).

http://soundlabsgroup.com.au


----------



## Loquah

murrays said:


> The SoundLabs Group website that I linked for the DACT pots are in Australia. They have Auricap and Mundorf capacitors.  I had good service with the pots, however I have not bought any caps off them (yet).
> 
> http://soundlabsgroup.com.au


 
  
 Awesome - thanks murrays!!!!


----------



## Loquah

So after much thinking and prodding from certain members (that's you @mcandmar and @murrays) I've decided to pull the trigger on some cap experimentation.
  
 I've ordered the russian teflons as recommended by @mcandmar and will hopefully buy some Mundorf Silver Gold Oil caps for the output. This might delay my attenuator upgrade depending on what happens at tomorrow's meet here in Melbourne. (Read: depending on if I can keep my wallet closed after hearing the Fiio X5, UM Mentors and the HD800s with my Mainline).


----------



## murrays

loquah said:


> So after much thinking and prodding from certain members (that's you @mcandmar and @murrays) I've decided to pull the trigger on some cap experimentation.
> 
> I've ordered the russian teflons as recommended by @mcandmar and will hopefully buy some Mundorf Silver Gold Oil caps for the output. This might delay my attenuator upgrade depending on what happens at tomorrow's meet here in Melbourne. (Read: depending on if I can keep my wallet closed after hearing the Fiio X5, UM Mentors and the HD800s with my Mainline).


 

 A tip: if you can, try to plan your mods to change one thing at a time and review them before moving on to the next one. If you make multiple changes at once you may be mis-led as to what caused the changes.  This is because sometimes changes that you expect to be significant turn out to be minor, and vice-versa. Recently I got an unexpected "wow" result from a capacitor change that, if it was done in conjunction with another change, I would not have attributed to the capacitor (I don't usually hear much change from capacitors).


----------



## Loquah

murrays said:


> A tip: if you can, try to plan your mods to change one thing at a time and review them before moving on to the next one. If you make multiple changes at once you may be mis-led as to what caused the changes.  This is because sometimes changes that you expect to be significant turn out to be minor, and vice-versa. Recently I got an unexpected "wow" result from a capacitor change that, if it was done in conjunction with another change, I would not have attributed to the capacitor (I don't usually hear much change from capacitors).


 
  
 Good tip, murrays. I read mcandmar's excellent write-up over on the BH forum where he discusses changing the output capacitors after installing the Teflon ones. He said he would have liked to hear them in the other order so that's what I'm planning to do so I can provide an alternate perspective.
  
 Whatever I do it will be one at a time.


----------



## JamieMcC

Last few post have made me chuckle. You will need the attenuator to reap the benefits of the caps imho I would suggest it goes in first.
  
 Sorry about your wallet


----------



## JamieMcC

A good start to the day here.
  
 I think and hope, fingers crossed that my Teflons have finally taken a turn for the better.
  
 After what was a promising start over the last couple of hundred hours my Crack had been pretty much unlistenable to its been plagued with distortion save for the odd short window of clarity which would never last more than a couple of tracks. With 375hrs on the clock now the amp has been pretty stable so far today and the distortion has gone save for a couple of wobbles, so not quiet there yet. But at last I can don my phones and start enjoying the music once again.


----------



## Misterrogers

jamiemcc said:


> A good start to the day here.
> 
> I think and hope, fingers crossed that my Teflons have finally taken a turn for the better.
> 
> After what was a promising start over the last couple of hundred hours my Crack had been pretty much unlistenable to its been plagued with distortion save for the odd short window of clarity which would never last more than a couple of tracks. With 375hrs on the clock now the amp has been pretty stable so far today and the distortion has gone save for a couple of wobbles, so not quiet there yet. But at last I can don my phones and start enjoying the music once again.




It does take awhile, doesn't it? The wonderful tonality I'm starting to hear will be well worth it.


----------



## skeptic

Congrats on the beautiful new chassis for your mainline misterrogers!  She is indeed a stunner!
  
 Regarding the teflon caps - pretty amazing that they are still undergoing dramatic changes at 375+ hours, but I guess that is consistent with what Tyler indicated he had heard from the original company that commissioned the RTI's (who supposedly burns them for 500 hours).  If I hear the same, I may have to move my mainline from home into the office for a few weeks so I can let it run for more than a few hours in a given stretch.  
  
 I will be curious to see if loquah reports similar changes with respect to his incoming russian teflons for his s.e.x.


----------



## mcandmar

The Russian FT3 teflons i put into my S.E.X. amp did exactly the same, somewhere around the 100hour mark they sounded distinctly unpleasant and distorted the higher frequencys. They slowly mellowed out with play time.
  
 I was advised to setup a burn in rig by connecting them with appropriate resistors to the speaker outputs of an amplifier, any old cheap amp will do, then just leave them to it for X amount of hours to cook.  I must have had approx 50-100 hours play time on them before they were installed into the amp, and even then they took as long to settle down fully.  Seemed a better idea to me than leaving the amp running all the time wearing the tubes out.


----------



## spacequeen7

which are them teflons are consider to be best bang for my $ and which would you recommend ?
 Thank you


----------



## JamieMcC

Not to worried about tube life here as am just using a el cheapo 6080. I picked a box of them up them as spares for something like $1 or $2 each. Convenience also played a part my iTunes library is set up via a small dedicated aspire revo desk top pc hard wired to the dac set to shuffle the capacitor see's several days worth of very varied music frequencies before anything is repeated rather than say a cd set to repeat the same 7 or 8 tracks 24 7. 
  
 The effects of the Russian Teflons sneak up on you, I removed some I had been using as bypasses on the Cracks 100uf film coupling caps and the films all of a sudden sounded course without them  and I started to understand what was meant by the plasticky sounding comment you sometimes read in the capacitor reviews. They are inexpensive and good fun to experiment with.


----------



## Loquah

And so it begins...
  

  
 I have the following upgrades to do preferrably in the following order, but it all depends on whether I can be patient enough to wait for the attenuator now that the Mundorfs are here:

Upgrade stock volume potentiometer to a Dale stepped attenuator
Upgrade stock output caps to Mundorf MCap Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil
Upgrade stock coupling capacitors to Russian teflons


----------



## MoatsArt

Mmmm.....Caps!

Silver/gold/oil no less


----------



## spacequeen7




----------



## Loquah

moatsart said:


> Mmmm.....Caps!
> 
> Silver/gold/oil no less


 
  
 After reading @mcandmar's various posts here and on the BH forums I was going to go silver/oil like him, but read that the gold brings slightly more warmth to the mids so I couldn't resist!


----------



## mcandmar

You just had to go one better didn't you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 You may have to redo some of the wiring to make them longer for the attenuator, specifically the wiring from the pot to the stand offs.  Doing so will be much more difficult with the new caps in place so i would advise waiting and doing the attenuator upgrade first.


----------



## Loquah

mcandmar said:


> You just had to go one better didn't you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha - I figured if I was going to do it, I should go straight for the end point and not be left always wondering...
  
 Thanks for the advice about the attenuator - it might be just what I need to know to help me be patient...
  
 Speaking of patience, would you recommend burning in the caps prior to installation and if so, how?


----------



## mcandmar

The Mundorfs weren't too bad in terms of burn in, the Russian teflons however took forever and a day.  Have a search on the BH forum for burn in, Grainger posted info about his setup which i copied using a cheap speaker amp with an iPod shuffle doing its thing.


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> And so it begins...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looking forward to seeing and hearing more about your hot rodding of the sex


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

loquah said:


> Haha - I figured if I was going to do it, I should go straight for the end point and not be left always wondering...
> 
> Thanks for the advice about the attenuator - it might be just what I need to know to help me be patient...
> 
> Speaking of patience, would you recommend burning in the caps prior to installation and if so, how?


 
 My current setup is a S.E.X. with Russian Teflons and ClarityCaps powering HE-500s. It's possible this is the end of my road; it's that good! I'm very interested in your findings as you upgrade step by step, because I built mine from scratch with the upgraded caps, impedance switches, and C4S as I could see layout was a potential challenge.
  
 (Aside: Don't do this at home, folks! I got away with it, but probably ended up taking twice the time I would have if I'd done stock -> upgrades -> new caps because that's how the manuals are designed. Lots and lots of planning and cross-referencing which could easily have gone south.)
  
 Attached are a couple of pics showing how I arranged these in the case. The Mundorfs are probably a bit larger than the ClarityCaps for the same value, but I think the approach worked very well and should be adaptable.
  
 ...also, if the stepped attenuator does wonders, I may have to jump for one. Still using the stock pot.


----------



## mcandmar

I am literally just about to pull the trigger on a pair of HE-500's so your endorsement is music to my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Mundorfs are slightly larger than those, it was a very tight fit getting them into mine.


----------



## JamieMcC

mcandmar said:


> I am literally just about to pull the trigger on a pair of HE-500's so your endorsement is music to my ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are they the ones listed on the wam? If so I have been very tempted myself.


----------



## mcandmar

Wam?   Best price i have found is from these guys http://www.razordogaudio.com/


----------



## JamieMcC

Out of interest has anybody tried the LCD-2 Rev 2 with sex or mainline?


----------



## Loquah

Both. Two of us played around with those combos at a meet last weekend. As to which headphone was better, it's very hard to say because they're quite different. In terms of amps, I think the extra power of the SEX makes it a better choice (ie it sounds fuller / better) despite the Mainline being technically superior.

I can try to supply more specifics if you let me know what you're looking for soundwise, etc.


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

In case anyone wonders what is going on with what appears to be _two_ wires leading to each connector on the Russian Teflon caps in my build pic post above, the reason is simple. The twisted pair is much stiffer and stronger than a single wire alone; one could not hold up those caps but the twisted pair keeps them in place. Thus, no need to get out zipties or run longer leads than necessary to anchor them to the case (also complicating further service). I used leftover standard red/black twisted pair from the S.E.X. build for this purpose. 
  
 Only the red leads make an electrical connection to the cap. The black leads wrap around the cap connector to make a physical connection, but they are not stripped; they do not make an electrical connection. However, the other end of the black leads are soldered to ground - mainly to better anchor the assembly, but also potentially to reduce interference on the slightly longer leads required to install said caps.
  
 The ClarityCaps came with leads stiff and robust enough to position them in 3D space and stay there, so no such games were required with them.
  
 Note that the covers on these Russian Teflon caps are conductive! Makes no sense, but they are. So you need to make sure they aren't wobbling around, or you could have smoke or an accident waiting to happen. Check the connectivity of each cap cover to everything remotely close before you power on the first time...


----------



## JamieMcC

A bit of shrink wrap can help, I shrunk mine rotisserie style over the gas hob


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> A bit of shrink wrap can help, I shrunk mine rotisserie style over the gas hob


 
  

  
 Der SEX der teeflons sher flur der hurberder. Bork, bork bork!


----------



## JamieMcC

lol, very good!


----------



## Zashoomin

jamiemcc said:


> Out of interest has anybody tried the LCD-2 Rev 2 with sex or mainline?


 
 The SEX with the LCD2's in my opinion sounds fantastic.  I think that at around that price point it doesn't get any better.


----------



## Loquah

+1


----------



## KmanChu

hello bottlehead thread,
  
 I currently have and love the Alpha Dogs. I am looking for a tube amp. Has anyone used the ADs with either the Mainline or SEX? What did you think and which amp works better? Has anyone compared the Bottleheads to the Woo WA22? I know the woo is more than twice the price but it is within my strike range (just barely) so whichever one is actually generally better with planars would be my selection.  BTW, I know how to use a soldering iron so the building process is not a consideration.


----------



## olegausany

Alpha Dogs are low impedance headphones while SEX was designed for high impedance


----------



## Doc B.

olegausany said:


> Alpha Dogs are low impedance headphones while SEX was designed for high impedance




That is incorrect. The S.E.X. amp works with any headphone impedance. It should work fine with Alpha Dogs. I suspect you were thinking of the Crack amp.


----------



## olegausany

doc b. said:


> That is incorrect. The S.E.X. amp works with any headphone impedance. It should work fine with Alpha Dogs. I suspect you were thinking of the Crack amp.




Sorry for mistake but does this apply to any version of the SEX,for example discussed in this threadh http://www.head-fi.org/t/517742/a-thread-for-my-sex-amp
too or to current version only?


----------



## Doc B.

You are asking me if it applies to an amp where the owner modified the amp by installing someone else's transformers instead of ours.


----------



## olegausany

doc b. said:


> You are asking me if it applies to an amp where the owner modified the amp by installing someone else's transformers instead of ours.



So it's transformer dependant no impedance switch needed?


----------



## mcandmar

The stock transformer can be wired for 4,8,16 or 32 ohm outputs. I don't think those figures represent the actual output impedance of the amplifier but the intended output loads. i.e. 4,8,16, or 32ohm speakers.  Perhaps Doc can confirm that?
  
 With the optional impedance switch board you can switch between them easily without having to rewire, and also adds the option to run the speaker outputs in a balanced configuration. Or headphones if connected through the speaker binding posts, or through an XLR socket should you install one.
  
 I've run everything from Earbuds, to Grados, to balanced HD650's through the amp, and have just ordered HE-500's.  There isn't much you cant run, its a very versatile setup.


----------



## Doc B.

I am getting confused. 
  
 The original post you made said that the S.E.X. amp did not work well with low impedance headphones. This is incorrect.  A Bottlehead S.E.X. amp with the stock Bottlehead transformers works well with headphones of any impedance. The stock Bottlehead transformers can be run as 4,8,16 or 32 ohm secondaries. Most users seem to like the 8 ohm tap best for pretty much any headphone. Anything from very low impedance IEMs to 600 ohm Beyers should work fine.
  
 You then asked if a S.E.X. amp that someone put different transformers with different taps in, that are not designed or sold by Bottlehead, works the same way. I have no knowledge of that transformer, the amp in question is no longer the stock Bottlehead S.E.X. amp as we designed it and thus I am not qualified to comment. Based solely upon the secondary impedances mentioned I can speculate that the 300 ohm tap might not have an acceptable signal to noise ratio with the zero global feedback circuit of the S,E,X, amp. 
  
 The impedance switch itself is an upgrade of convenience that allows one to change impedances without having to desolder and move some connections on the stock output transformer.


----------



## Loquah

kmanchu said:


> hello bottlehead thread,
> 
> I currently have and love the Alpha Dogs. I am looking for a tube amp. Has anyone used the ADs with either the Mainline or SEX? What did you think and which amp works better? Has anyone compared the Bottleheads to the Woo WA22? I know the woo is more than twice the price but it is within my strike range (just barely) so whichever one is actually generally better with planars would be my selection.  BTW, I know how to use a soldering iron so the building process is not a consideration.


 
  
 I haven't had the pleasure of trying the Alpha Dogs with either of these two amps, but own both and have tried the Alphas separately. Are they noticeably better with extra power behind them?


----------



## olegausany

doc b. said:


> I am getting confused.
> 
> The original post you made said that the S.E.X. amp did not work well with low impedance headphones. This is incorrect.  A Bottlehead S.E.X. amp with the stock Bottlehead transformers works well with headphones of any impedance. The stock Bottlehead transformers can be run as 4,8,16 or 32 ohm secondaries. Most users seem to like the 8 ohm tap best for pretty much any headphone. Anything from very low impedance IEMs to 600 ohm Beyers should work fine.
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot for clarification


----------



## KmanChu

I haven't used the Alpha Dogs with any amp more potent than an ifi iCAN. It is only rated at 400mW but seems to drive them with authority. I am going to a meet next weekend where some more potent amps will be around for sample. I have heard the ADs respond well to a powerful amp, but at any sane volume the iCAN is not breaking a sweat even in the middle gain setting. I was just curious to see if any on here could chime in.



loquah said:


> I haven't had the pleasure of trying the Alpha Dogs with either of these two amps, but own both and have tried the Alphas separately. Are they noticeably better with extra power behind them?


----------



## skeptic

kmanchu said:


> I haven't used the Alpha Dogs with any amp more potent than an ifi iCAN. It is only rated at 400mW but seems to drive them with authority. I am going to a meet next weekend where some more potent amps will be around for sample. I have heard the ADs respond well to a powerful amp, but at any sane volume the iCAN is not breaking a sweat even in the middle gain setting. I was just curious to see if any on here could chime in.


 
  
 Hi kmanchu - sorry for the delayed response here and in the AD thread.  I've been traveling for the last 10 or so days and not really keeping up.  I own both the AD's and mainline, and the mainline does indeed drive the AD's very nicely.  To me, the combo doesn't quite have the incredible magic of the mainline -> hd800's - which is simply as good as headphone audio gets in my book (better even than BHSE -> stax to my ears), but the mainline is very impressive with AD's nonetheless.
  
 I should note though that there isn't a huge amount of headroom in terms of volume with this setup.  With my very softest classical recordings, I can max the mainline's volume without having the AD's hurt my ears (although they are still a bit louder than I would normally listen).  The same position on the attenuators with my hd800's would blow my head right off my shoulders.  With your average album, I listen around 2/3 volume with AD's and under 1/2 volume on hd800's.  Hope this provides some useful insight.  If you have any specific questions, feel free to run them by me!


----------



## tdogzthmn

My SEX amp to SRD-7/SB to STAX 507 setup is fantastic.  It would be nice to compare it against the HD800 or other headphone of high resolution.


----------



## Loquah

I received a matched pair of Electro-Harmonix 6C45Pi tubes last week and have now had a chance to do some comparisons with the stock Sovtek tubes supplied with the Mainline.
  

  
 As smooth and beautiful as the Mainline sounds with the stock tubes, it's even cleaner and smoother with the EH tubes. There not more rolled off or anything - the details all still there - but it's like a tiny amount of distortion has been removed. It's subtle enough that I wouldn't have picked it listening just to the Sovteks, but there is a noticeable difference if I install a Sovtek in one channel and an EH in the other.
  
 Apparently these are getting harder to come by, but that might not be true. Either way if you have a Mainline and want it to sound like double cream laced with butter then you should get you some of these


----------



## KmanChu

Thanks skeptic, no worries about taking a while to reply. You don't owe me anything, but I do thank you for your input. I am not too worried about where the volume knob is in terms of gain, as long as the mainline is not compressing the signal or starting to sound grainy as it drifts out of Class A. The ADs are a bit difficult to drive, distinctly more so than Audezes. So, I may build a SEX amp and use some of the difference in price for another toy like some Blumenstein Orcas to go with it


----------



## Loquah

kmanchu said:


> Thanks skeptic, no worries about taking a while to reply. You don't owe any of me anything, but I do thank you for your input. I am not too worried about where the volume knob is in terms of gain, as long as the mainline is not compressing the signal or starting to sound grainy as it drifts out of Class A. *The ADs are a bit difficult to drive, distinctly more so than Audezes*. So, I may build a SEX amp and use some of the difference in price for another toy like some Blumenstein Orcas to go with it


 
  
 Given that information ^^ I would highly recommend the S.E.X. as it's extra power makes the HE-500s sound better on the S.E.X. than on the Mainline despite the Mainline's technical superiority.


----------



## ffivaz

kmanchu said:


> Thanks skeptic, no worries about taking a while to reply. You don't owe me anything, but I do thank you for your input. I am not too worried about where the volume knob is in terms of gain, as long as the mainline is not compressing the signal or starting to sound grainy as it drifts out of Class A. The ADs are a bit difficult to drive, distinctly more so than Audezes. So, I may build a SEX amp and use some of the difference in price for another toy like some Blumenstein Orcas to go with it


 
  
 Just to correct one thing. I think that all Bottlehead products never drift out of class A. Crack, S.E.X. and mainline are all Single Ended "Class A" designs, as opposed to other classes that use push pull design for higher output power. You have a maximum output voltage before clipping, which many find less harsh with tubes.


----------



## tdogzthmn

kmanchu said:


> Thanks skeptic, no worries about taking a while to reply. You don't owe me anything, but I do thank you for your input. I am not too worried about where the volume knob is in terms of gain, as long as the mainline is not compressing the signal or starting to sound grainy as it drifts out of Class A. The ADs are a bit difficult to drive, distinctly more so than Audezes. So, I may build a SEX amp and use some of the difference in price for another toy like some Blumenstein Orcas to go with it


 
  
 I'd highly recommend the CS4 upgrade if you go with the SEX.  I noticed a welcomed improvement to the noise floor and the bass which really shows with my Orca's and with my STAX headphones.  It has plenty of gain for every headphone I have used and the sound is just superb.


----------



## Loquah

tdogzthmn said:


> I'd highly recommend the CS4 upgrade if you go with the SEX.  I noticed a welcomed improvement to the noise floor and the bass which really shows with my Orca's and with my STAX headphones.  It has plenty of gain for every headphone I have used and the sound is just superb.


 
  
 +1 - the CS4 on the S.E.X. does even more for the sound than the Speedball on the Crack IMO


----------



## KmanChu

Yeah, I had planned on getting all the options with the SEX, the CS4 and the impedance switches. 
  
  
 tdogz, 
  
 How do you like the Orcas? I would be getting them purely based on the references to them on the Bottlehead website. My main loudspeaker system veers toward the more analytical side so I was thinking a desktop system with a tube amp might be a nice change of pace.


----------



## Misterrogers

Where did you purchase these mate?
  
 Quote:


loquah said:


> I received a matched pair of Electro-Harmonix 6C45Pi tubes last week and have now had a chance to do some comparisons with the stock Sovtek tubes supplied with the Mainline.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Loquah

The place I bought from has none left I'm afraid  I checked yesterday after a few people asked me.


----------



## A2029

I just found a place where I can get them for around $27 a piece. Unfortunately there is a month wait to get them shipped...


----------



## Loquah

Wow! Are they making them themselves??


----------



## A2029

They must be getting them hiked in by foot from the most northern peak of Alaska... After I called the store it took them half a day to track down a supplier to get the tubes, and they said they had to manually create a new SKU to process my purchase request. I was really excited when they quoted that price and gave no minimum or maximum number of tubes that I would have to order


----------



## olegausany

Or they getting them from Russia


----------



## dpump

There are plenty of 6C45's on eBay, mostly from Russia and Ukraine. Also, the Tube Superstore has Cryoed ones for $34.95. They appear to be Russian also. I have ordered tubes from Russia before and always received them, just takes a little while.


----------



## A2029

Nope, these ones are not russian. These are gold pin 6C45's made by Electro Harmonix. The store that I ordered from is a big chain music store in Canada (Long & McQuade). They are charging me cost + a certain %.


----------



## Doc B.

Have you looked at the printing on the tube? I believe you will find it says made in Russia. I would guess these are the same tubes as the regular 6C45pis, but with gold plated pins and a rebranding. EH says they are a premium version of Sovtek 6C45pis. They don't say what makes them premium beyond the gold plated pins, and the Sovtek name has been used on rebranded old stock tubes as well as current production tubes. Does the gold make them sound better? I suppose it might if it improves the conductivity of the pin/socket interface. Are the tubes graded? I have no idea.

It's easy to imagine that there are still quantities of 6C45pis available in Russia and a little difficult to imagine that there is enough demand for them to justify tooling up for a new production run. But this is all speculation.


----------



## A2029

Woops, what I mean't is that these are not russian Sovtek tubes.


----------



## olegausany

But they made in Russia while sound way better than Sovtek


----------



## A2029

Yes, Electro Harmonix tubes are made in russia. My original "They must be getting them hiked in by foot from the most northern peak of Alaska..." was a joke


----------



## A2029

doc b. said:


> Have you looked at the printing on the tube? I believe you will find it says made in Russia. I would guess these are the same tubes as the regular 6C45pis, but with gold plated pins and a rebranding. EH says they are a premium version of Sovtek 6C45pis. They don't say what makes them premium beyond the gold plated pins, and the Sovtek name has been used on rebranded old stock tubes as well as current production tubes. Does the gold make them sound better? I suppose it might if it improves the conductivity of the pin/socket interface. Are the tubes graded? I have no idea.
> 
> It's easy to imagine that there are still quantities of 6C45pis available in Russia and a little difficult to imagine that there is enough demand for them to justify tooling up for a new production run. But this is all speculation.


 
  
 Ya, I though about that myself when they quoted the price. Were there any physical differences that you know about between the Sovtek and EH for NOS tubes? Something I can use to tell if the EH's I'm getting are just rebranded and their pins plated with gold??
  
 Edit: Even if they are re-branded with gold plated pins, still a great deal. Prices I'm seeing online for Sovtek 6C45's shipped from US to Canada are around the $25-30 per tube range, plus shipping on top of that.


----------



## olegausany

I perfectly understand but looks like it takes them forever to get from Russia


----------



## Doc B.

It does indeed take a while to get tubes from Eastern Europe. We typically wait for two to four weeks for a shipment. New Sensor (EH and Sovtek and Mullard and Tung-Sol brand name owners) on the other hand is very responsive and we have been happily doing business with them for many years.


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

Finished building Mainline couple of days ago. All in all I spent almost a month on it. But I have two little kids, so I could only work for an hour or so in the evening. Taking time to read every instruction three times before actually soldering paid off: no building errors. I had a small hiccup during voltage test, but biasing the tubes solved this problem (thanks *Caucasian Blackplate* for amazing support).  Anyways, the amp looks and sounds just awesome. Thanks Bottlehead team for such a great product!
  
 Question to HD800 owners: does it make sense to invest into a balanced cable for HD800 to use with Mainline's balanced outputs? Also, which output impedance setting you're using? I personally prefer "low" even though I'm losing some of the bass.


----------



## spacequeen7

georgenapalm said:


> Finished building Mainline couple of days ago. All in all I spent almost a month on it. But I have two little kids, so I could only work for an hour or so in the evening. Taking time to read every instruction three times before actually soldering paid off: no building errors. I had a small hiccup during voltage test, but biasing the tubes solved this problem (thanks *Caucasian Blackplate* for amazing support).  Anyways, the amp looks and sounds just awesome. Thanks Bottlehead team for such a great product!
> 
> Question to HD800 owners: does it make sense to invest into a balanced cable for HD800 to use with Mainline's balanced outputs? Also, which output impedance setting you're using? I personally prefer "low" even though I'm losing some of the bass.


 
 is there Crack vs. Mainline comparison somewhere ?..wondering if it's worth upgrading


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

spacequeen7 said:


> is there Crack vs. Mainline comparison somewhere ?..wondering if it's worth upgrading


 
 Well, look at the first page of this thread and you'll find it. Loquah did an extensive comparison of Crack, SEX and Mainline. 
  
 I used to own Crack myself, but I sold it to fund Mainline purchase, so I haven't compared them side-by-side. From the memory Mainline has more control and detail retrieval. And it's way more versatile and convenient to use.


----------



## Doc B.

It's interesting that I found a balanced cable to make quite a difference with an HD600 and HD650 but not so much with an HD800. Which leaves me questioning if the differences I heard with the HD600/650 were related more to the quality of the cable itself than the balanced connection. Understand that this is coming from someone who believes in balanced wiring of loudspeakers, and I wish I could say balanced speaker cabling was a no-brainer in every situation. I think one would need to do some pretty specific comparison with exactly the same type of cable done in single ended and balanced configuration to come up with a more definitive answer. I have not done that. On the other other hand I have not experienced any situation where balanced speaker cabling sounded less good than single ended.


----------



## skeptic

spacequeen7 said:


> is there Crack vs. Mainline comparison somewhere ?..wondering if it's worth upgrading


 
  
 I posted a couple of comparative comments in post nos. 43 and 46 here also: http://www.head-fi.org/t/662240/mainline-new-bottlehead-premium-headphone-amp/30
  
 Hope that helps in your assessment!


----------



## spacequeen7

doc b. said:


> It's interesting that I found a balanced cable to make quite a difference with an HD600 and HD650 but not so much with an HD800. Which leaves me questioning if the differences I heard with the HD600/650 were related more to the quality of the cable itself than the balanced connection. Understand that this is coming from someone who believes in balanced wiring of loudspeakers, and I wish I could say balanced speaker cabling was a no-brainer in every situation. I think one would need to do some pretty specific comparison with exactly the same type of cable done in single ended and balanced configuration to come up with a more definitive answer. I have not done that. On the other other hand I have not experienced any situation where balanced speaker cabling sounded less good than single ended.


 
 if you don't mind asking ..what cable are speaking of ? 
 Thank you Sir


----------



## Doc B.

Ah, you are putting me on the spot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I think the balanced cable I made for the HD600/650 was made from continuous cast copper with a Teflon insulator. The stock HD600 cable is whimpy enough that just about any other cable makes an improvement. We sold the Cardas single ended HD600 cable for a while. It was slighty modded with a right angle TRS plug and it was quite a bit better than the stock cable.
  
 At Can Jam a couple years ago I got to hear the then brand new Cardas balanced cable for the HD800. I thought it was a nice if not huge step up from the quite good stock HD800 cable. Recently I built a balanced cable of my own - maybe from Mogami mic cable? Can't recall. Anyway, the difference between it and the stock cable was again not very big.


----------



## spacequeen7

doc b. said:


> Ah, you are putting me on the spot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was just curious that's all ,my apologies . I bought some 20 GAUGE silver plated solid copper/Teflon insulated NOS hook up wire for Crack and was wondering if this is good choice in case I want to build my own headphone cables 
 Thanks


----------



## askjeebs

spacequeen7 said:


> I was just curious that's all ,my apologies . I bought some 20 GAUGE silver plated solid copper/Teflon insulated NOS hook up wire for Crack and was wondering if this is good choice in case I want to build my own headphone cables
> Thanks


 
  
 I know it's not answering your question, but is that solid core wire? Most of the Bottlehead wiring is solid core. If I had to use stranded wire as hookup wire for the S.E.X I probably would've shot myself a few times.
  
 On second thought that's probably an over-exaggeration. Nothing compares to soldering those bloody rectifiers.


----------



## Loquah

askjeebs said:


> I know it's not answering your question, but is that solid core wire? Most of the Bottlehead wiring is solid core. If I had to use stranded wire as hookup wire for the S.E.X I probably would've shot myself a few times.
> 
> On second thought that's probably an over-exaggeration. Nothing compares to soldering those bloody rectifiers.


 
  
 LOL that's so true - those rectifiers are a nightmare!!


----------



## JamieMcC

My Bottlehead inspired headphone stand and a second life for an old tube, the base looks like its solid copper and the tube weighs in at 5.5kg. The top section is wrapped in copper foil when I find a offcut of solid copper tube I can polish up it will get swapped over.


----------



## Loquah

That's beautiful Jamie.
  
 Does anyone know if storing headphones like that will compress the pads over time and shorten their life?


----------



## ffivaz

spacequeen7 said:


> I was just curious that's all ,my apologies . I bought some 20 GAUGE silver plated solid copper/Teflon insulated NOS hook up wire for Crack and was wondering if this is good choice in case I want to build my own headphone cables
> Thanks


 
  
 I'm not sure solid core is the best for a headphone cable since it's rigid and quite fragile if bent.


----------



## Loquah

*Update Time!*
  
 I installed a new attenuator the other night in my Bottlehead S.E.X. and have now had a chance to listen to the setup for a little while. There's no doubt that it's a significant improvement. As others have reported, the key differences from the stock potentiometer are better transparency and detail. I feel like the textures of recordings and things like breathiness in vocals, etc. are now more accurately and clearly rendered through the S.E.X.
  
 My attenuator of choice was a Chinese stepped attenuator assembled using high quality Dale resistors. The attenuator arrived from the eBay seller with some minor damage due to being crushed. The wire ring around the bottom of the attenuator was bent and snapped between 2 of the resistors, but was relatively easy to fix with some gentle bending and then some solder. Hopefully it will hold up in the long term, but I at least I'll know exactly where to look first if there are ever any issues. The seller kindly provided a partial refund to cover the inconvenience.
  
 The new attenuator is a little bit stiffer to turn than I like, but I can deal with that in return for the more open sound it's providing.
  
 Here are some pics. The first one shows the attenuator design and you can see the wire ring that broke in transit (at the top of the attenuator in this image)
  

  
 In order to install the attenuator properly I had to grind out a little bit of extra length and width in the chassis slot for the locking tab on the attenuator.
  

  
 The stock volume knob now sits a little high so I might go looking for a vintage looking knob with a slightly recessed underside. If anyone knows good places to source vintage-looking knobs, please let me know.
  

  
 The fly-leads on the attenuator made connection really easy because I wasn't limited by the length of the existing cables. There are now a couple of loops of extra cable hanging down from the chassis, but they don't extend much further than the height of the C4S board so it's not at risk of being snagged on anything and it's not visible.
  

  
 In addition to heat-shrinking the connections between the existing wiring and the attenuator fly leads, I also wrapped each bundle (left and right channels) in electrical tape to protect the drain wire connections from the stock wiring configuration.
  

  
 I can highly recommend this modification. My assembled attenuator was just $50 from eBay and is easily the best improvement I've found for a Bottlehead kit other than Bottlehead's own upgrades (Speedball / C4S). Of course, this upgrade would not work (nor be required) for the Mainline, just the Crack, S.E.X., or Quickie.


----------



## spacequeen7

^^ looks great Loquah ,enjoy it


----------



## MoatsArt

As you make upgrades to the Crack and SEX it would be interesting to hear how they compare to the Mainline.

Thanks for your continuing service to the community.


----------



## Loquah

moatsart said:


> As you make upgrades to the Crack and SEX it would be interesting to hear how they compare to the Mainline.
> 
> Thanks for your continuing service to the community.


 
  
 Good point, Nathan!
  
 Currently, I would say that the original comparisons I made still ring true with the S.E.X. just being slightly more revealing now.
  
 I'm literally about to walk into my living room now to plan (and possibly complete) the installation of some Mundorf output caps. I'll be sure to do some A/B comparisons with the Mainline once that's done...


----------



## mcandmar




----------



## Loquah

Ummm... OK, this just got interesting!
  
 First, let me explain what I've just done with a few pics...
  
 I've now removed the output caps which are these 1.5uF ones (one per side):
  

  
 Thankfully, the existing connections are fairly easy to access to remove the original capacitors. These images show the right side (when looking at the bottom of the chassis). The left side is slightly more challenging, but still very doable:
  

  
 The Mundorf capacitors I used have very stiff, bare metal leads so I have sheathed each of the leads with heat-shrink prior to installation and left the leads at full length to hold the caps at a good distance from other components. It's getting a bit crowded, but nothing that's concerning.
  

  
 Here's what the finished product looks like:
  

  
 Now, the sound... I wish I'd installed these caps ages ago!!
  
 Instantly the sound is richer in the mid-range and subtle details are more present and tangible. I want to give the system a chance to settle in before I make any wild, sweeping generalisations, but early impressions are that this is an incredibly worthwhile investment of time and money. A quick test with the beyer T1s showed that the Mainline still maintains an edge and superiority over the S.E.X. - the treble and staging / imaging in particular is where the Mainline still has a clear advantage, but the new caps have brought the S.E.X.'s sound to a new level and it is now incredible when paired with the HE-500s.
  
 Prior to upgrading the attenuator and caps, I had started to prefer my Matrix Quattro as an amp for the HE-500s, but the Quattro is once again on the shelf now that the S.E.X. has hit this new level.
  
 I'll return with more detailed comparisons of the hot-rodded S.E.X. vs the stock Mainline in the coming days.


----------



## MoatsArt

Tube rolling....
Cap rolling....

The sickness runs deep



:evil:


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## murrays

loquah said:


> The new attenuator is a little bit stiffer to turn than I like, but I can deal with that in return for the more open sound it's providing.


 
   
This is one area where the more expensive DACT attenuators with their Swiss Elma switches are at an advantage.  They have a lighter torque setting giving an easier, smoother action. It may not bother you, unless you're one for always making fine adjustments.


----------



## murrays

Which Mundorfs did you install?  It will be interesting to hear how they are after running for a few hours.  I always find the first impressions of a "good" capacitor upgrade can be a bit misleading.


----------



## Misterrogers

moatsart said:


> Tube rolling....
> Cap rolling....
> 
> The sickness runs deep


 
 Boy, does it  I've just spent the last week rolling through tiny 33-47uf/16v caps (Muse/Blackgates) on a small TPS7A4700 reg I use on my custom DAC (digital/DAC PS). I'm continually amazed how a single component in the signal path (and sometimes not - like an error amp loop) can make significant differences in sonics. It's a sickness; always trying to squeeze there absolute most out of our systems. Occasionally I need to force myself to leave it alone and enjoy music just for the listening, and not for the speed, dynamics, tonality, etc.


----------



## Loquah

murrays said:


> Which Mundorfs did you install?  It will be interesting to hear how they are after running for a few hours.  I always find the first impressions of a "good" capacitor upgrade can be a bit misleading.


 
  
 MCap Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil.
  
 How do you mean misleading? Do you mean they get worse or that the end sound is just different and therefore the initial sound is not a fair indication?


----------



## murrays

loquah said:


> MCap Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil.
> 
> [SNIP] ... the end sound is just different and therefore the initial sound is not a fair indication?


 
  
 This ^.  I find that "better" / "worse" are too hard to nail down. Sometimes the best way to tell how far you have come is to revert to a previous component after the new one has bedded in. From an objective point of view it can be interesting to hear the effect of a "downgrade" just as much as an "upgrade".


----------



## Loquah

murrays said:


> This ^.  I find that "better" / "worse" are too hard to nail down. Sometimes the best way to tell how far you have come is to revert to a previous component after the new one has bedded in. From an objective point of view it can be interesting to hear the effect of a "downgrade" just as much as an "upgrade".


 
  
 Yes. Good point. I probably won't bother regressing the upgrade, but I have the Mainline as my benchmark for comparison and I'm going to allow time for "new toy" effect to wear off before making any definitive statements.


----------



## JamieMcC

murrays said:


> This ^.  I find that "better" / "worse" are too hard to nail down. Sometimes the best way to tell how far you have come is to revert to a previous component after the new one has bedded in. From an objective point of view it can be interesting to hear the effect of a "downgrade" just as much as an "upgrade".


 

 I took my cheap Russian Teflon bypasses off of the coupling caps a while ago and was surprised at how the films sounded without them, and I really liked the films prior. But now they were sounding a little coarse and plastically I thought.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

I'm just wondering a question, how would be the comparison between the fully upgraded Crack ( with Speedball + GEC Brown Base + best input tubes + bunch of Mundorfs / Teflon film caps + Stepped Attenuator ) and the stock Mainline??? Because the price of a fully upgraded Crack maybe is even greater than the price for a Mainline.
  
 Like this auction which is near to the deadline, and the price now is just ridiculous : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141259960898?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
  
 I haven't had any chance listening to an upgraded Crack, I just listened to the speedballed Crack and Mainline, and the Mainline is clearly better.


----------



## Loquah

I never upgraded my Crack (other than Speedball) so hard to say, but given the incremental gains brought by caps and the like, I can't see how the Crack could ever make up the difference in terms of SQ let alone overtake the Mainline.
  
 This isn't to criticise the Crack which is a brilliant amp, but you get what you pay for in the sophistication and refinement of the Mainline's sound.


----------



## JamieMcC

Gosh that's a stunning price, it only takes two bidders with deep pockets.  Fitting boutique expensive, eye candy parts might not always lead to improvements in SQ.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

loquah said:


> I never upgraded my Crack (other than Speedball) so hard to say, but given the incremental gains brought by caps and the like, I can't see how the Crack could ever make up the difference in terms of SQ let alone overtake the Mainline.
> 
> This isn't to criticise the Crack which is a brilliant amp, but you get what you pay for in the sophistication and refinement of the Mainline's sound.


 

 Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. I really can't see why people can spend hundreds of dollars on caps and tubes for upgrading the Crack when they can buy a Mainline which I think certainly a upgrade over the Crack, IMHO


----------



## MoatsArt

:redface:


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. I really can't see why people can spend hundreds of dollars on caps and tubes for upgrading the Crack when they can buy a Mainline which I think certainly a upgrade over the Crack, IMHO


 
  
 I agree, BUT sometimes the fun is in the tinkering and trying - the thrill of alchemy if you like - can I make this budget amp into giant-killer gold?


----------



## Loquah

I've spent more time tonight listening to the S.E.X. with the newly installed attenuator and Mundorf Silver / Gold / Oil MCap Supremes (1.5uF output caps).
  
 Most of my listening was with the HE-500s and I can confirm that the S.E.X. has improved, but not to the degree that it's a threat to the Mainline - it's just a better version of the S.E.X. Given the ease and relative affordability of upgrade caps I'd say this is a recommended tweak for people who already have the C4S installed and a higher quality pot / attenuator, but I wouldn't recommend it ahead of either of those 2 upgrades because it has less impact than either (and the stock potentiometer may mask some of the benefits of upgraded caps).
  
 To provide an analogy for the changes I'm hearing, imagine the feeling of the timber base you receive from Bottlehead with an amp kit - it's nicely finished and can happily be used with no sanding or other finishing. Installing upgraded caps in the S.E.X. is like taking to the stock wood base with a sheet of 1200 grit sandpaper. The wood doesn't really look much different afterwards, but it's just a bit smoother to the touch - it's almost silky now.
  
 That's kind of how the upgraded caps have changed the S.E.X.'s sound. I find the overall sound to be still fully detailed, but smoother and with absolutely zero fatigue regardless of the track (and I listened to some crap tonight!) I also feel like there's increased transparency, especially in the mids, but it might be a result of the smoother sound allowing me to perceive sounds that were always present before.
  
 No matter what, I can safely say that I'm enjoying the S.E.X. even more now than before and I'm looking forward to the arrival of my newly purchased (but secondhand) LCD 2s and the Russian teflon coupling caps recommended to me by Jamie. On that note, special thanks for encouragement and support for this new venture in my DIY amp experience must go to @JamieMcC and @mcandmar - thanks to you both and to everyone else who's discussing these great products and helping to inspire me and others to play, to modify and explore the possibilities of understanding and enhancing our own gear.


----------



## JamieMcC

I don't think I would be so inclined to tinker with the Mainline in the same way I have done with the Crack.  Latest caps trying out some K75 PIO 100uf capacitor's and in the second pic on the two small speedball boards switches to change between the operating voltages or the 12u7 and E80cc this one is easy and inexpensive to do and if you use a E80cc should be considered a must as it does make a noticeable improvement.


----------



## Loquah

There are really only 1 pair of caps that you would bother changing on the Mainline as far as I can tell. I'm currently contemplating a pair of Auric caps to replace them. Anyone had experience with Aurics?


----------



## audiowize

aeolus kratos said:


> I'm just wondering a question, how would be the comparison between the fully upgraded Crack ( with Speedball + GEC Brown Base + best input tubes + bunch of Mundorfs / Teflon film caps + Stepped Attenuator ) and the stock Mainline??? Because the price of a fully upgraded Crack maybe is even greater than the price for a Mainline.
> 
> Like this auction which is near to the deadline, and the price now is just ridiculous : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141259960898?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> 
> I haven't had any chance listening to an upgraded Crack, I just listened to the speedballed Crack and Mainline, and the Mainline is clearly better.


 
 I have built a fully shunt regulated Crack with similar parts quality to what we put in the Mainline.  While it does sound really good, it's still not at the level of the Mainline.  Do bear in mind that this build involved using the equivalent of two Speedballed Cracks, plus a submissive, and an old BeePre panel that wasn't quite right.  Also, spending all this money and throwing all this technology at a Crack doesn't really make it any better at driving lower impedance headphones.


----------



## Doc B.

We saw a Tape Project album sell for something like $800 on ebay a while ago, with the vague implication that it was a rare occurrence that one would come up for sale. We had the same album in stock for $300.


----------



## skeptic

aeolus kratos said:


> I'm just wondering a question, how would be the comparison between the fully upgraded Crack ( with Speedball + GEC Brown Base + best input tubes + bunch of Mundorfs / Teflon film caps + Stepped Attenuator ) and the stock Mainline??? Because the price of a fully upgraded Crack maybe is even greater than the price for a Mainline.
> 
> Like this auction which is near to the deadline, and the price now is just ridiculous : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141259960898?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> 
> I haven't had any chance listening to an upgraded Crack, I just listened to the speedballed Crack and Mainline, and the Mainline is clearly better.


 
  
 Crack certainly improves nicely with upgrades and is a tremendous value and performer compared to competing commercially manufactured OTL's, but I'll echo the others above in recommending a jump straight to the mainline for those with the requisite budget who are looking to drive high end dynamic cans (and who are comfortable with a more sophisticated build).
  
 The tinkering and tweaking is really an end in and of itself and a whole lot of fun.  Also, a lot of us got into modding our cracks and tube rolling _before_ the mainline was available.  My crack, built back in 2011, for example, has a rather nice tkd pot, 100 uf obbligato coupling caps, and an axon bypassing the 3rd psu cap, in addition to the speedball.  I also have a pretty solid set of tube options, including all the usual suspects - various mullard, bugle boy, rca, tungsol 12au7/12bh7's and several 5998's, a GEC 6as7g, a 7802, various 6080's (previously a nos 7236) etc.  I still get _lots_ of listening enjoyment out of my crack every day in the office.  It is a very nice amp in its own right, but even with my hd650's (x10 with my hd800's), my ears instantly pick up on the fact that the mainline is a totally different and more sophisticated animal than the modded crack, irrespective of its tube complement.  Put on a good Decca recording or the like (e.g. Schiff's Goldberg Variations), and the mainline's refinement, details and speed become all the more apparent.  
  
 This is why I occasionally wave my arms in the air and try to discourage folks from investing $200 in a GEC tube when its 1/6 the price of the mainline (and really may or may not be any more enjoyable than a good 6080 or 5998 depending on a multitude of factors).  I picked up my GEC when they cost half that, and I know others have found reasonable deals on rebrands in particular on occasion.  But as you correctly imply, modding and tube rolling should not be with the expectation that the crack will overcome mainline in technical proficiency.


----------



## icc900

Helpful...Thanks for sharing.


----------



## MoatsArt

I must admit to having spent more on a Crack build than The cost of a Mainline kit.

At the moment I am planning on building two Cracks. The first will be stock. The second will have the following mods and extras:

Speedball
Submissive
Obbligato gold output caps
10uF Teflon bypass caps x2
2.2uF Jupiter beeswax HT bypass caps by 2
2 resistors in power supply replaced with chokes
First 2 capacitors in power supply replaced with 470 uF BHC Aerovox
Final capacitor in power supply replaced with Clarity Caps TC (Kelvin terminals) 200uF 
Noval input tube socket replaced with octal (for use with 6SN7 etc)
Separate transformer with 12 volt secondary winding to power heater of 12SN7 tube
Regulated DC filament supply (for 12SN7)
Various tubes for rolling
Silver wiring in signal path
Resistor upgrades

The changes will be made one at a time with a period of weeks in between. Comparisons will be made at each stage with the stock a Crack.

"He's insane" you might say. Correct!

I do also have a purpose, though. Experience and education. I want to learn what each of these changes make to the sound. Heck! I want to understand the circuit better. To my mind the relative simplicity of the Crack circuit makes it an ideal candidate for these experiments. I will then hopefully be able to apply these lessons to other Bottlehead builds and mods, including the Mainline.

For me this is a long term hobby and one worth investing my time and money into for the lessons and enjoyment it brings. It is about both the building and the listening. Many of the parts will be reusable in future projects if I choose to break up one of the Cracks.

It is a cheap, fun and practical education.


----------



## Loquah

moatsart said:


> I must admit to having spent more on a Crack build than The cost of a Mainline kit.
> 
> At the moment I am planning on building two Cracks. The first will be stock. The second will have the following mods and extras:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Will you share all those observations here with us, Nathan? It sounds invaluable.


----------



## MoatsArt

Sure thing.

I think I will start a new thread documenting the what, why and how of what I do along with listening impressions and comparisons. Consider it the journal of a Crack addict. I am no guru, just someone learning and making mistakes along the way. It will not be a hyped up set of recommendations, just observations. Certainly very useful to me personally. Possibly useful to others so that they can learn from my mistakes.

Will post here when the journal is up and running. Could be a while, though, as I expect it will take some time for my kits to arrive.

If you have any suggestions please let me know.

Cheers

Nathan


----------



## tdogzthmn

I'd like to hear a Mainline + HD800 compared against my Stereomour + SR-507 combo.  I find the Stereomour is a bit cleaner deeper and airy sounding vs. my SEX 2.1 which has a more bright and punchy sound with the SR-507.  Both are excellent sounding and the SR-507 is the best sounding headphone I've owned thus far.  I've been using a STAX SRD-7/SB transformer which allows me to use the speaker outputs to dive my STAX headphones.  Might be a little different than using the headphone outputs on the bottlehead amps but the audio quality and experience is fantastic.  The Stereomour throws a nice wide soundstage and give plenty of detail for the STAX headphones to render in life-like detail.


----------



## Loquah

tdogzthmn said:


> I'd like to hear a Mainline + HD800 compared against my Stereomour + SR-507 combo.  I find the Stereomour is a bit cleaner deeper and airy sounding vs. my SEX 2.1 which has a more bright and punchy sound with the SR-507.  Both are excellent sounding and the SR-507 is the best sounding headphone I've owned thus far.  I've been using a STAX SRD-7/SB transformer which allows me to use the speaker outputs to dive my STAX headphones.  Might be a little different than using the headphone outputs on the bottlehead amps but the audio quality and experience is fantastic.  The Stereomour throws a nice wide soundstage and give plenty of detail for the STAX headphones to render in life-like detail.


 
  
 I recently heard a vintage Stax setup driven from a S.E.X. (no C4S) at the same meet as I heard HD800s on my Mainline. If I could have taken one setup home it would have been the Stax for sure - no contest to my ears


----------



## tdogzthmn

loquah said:


> I recently heard a vintage Stax setup driven from a S.E.X. (no C4S) at the same meet as I heard HD800s on my Mainline. If I could have taken one setup home it would have been the Stax for sure - no contest to my ears




Glad I'm not alone in these sentiments. Was that system also using a STAX transformer box to drive the Earspeakers?


----------



## Loquah

tdogzthmn said:


> Glad I'm not alone in these sentiments. Was that system also using a STAX transformer box to drive the Earspeakers?


 
  
 Yes. I'll see if I can find a photo...


----------



## Loquah

Here is a pic I took of them. There's a S.E.X. out of the picture that's feeding the Stax box.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

skeptic said:


> Crack certainly improves nicely with upgrades and is a tremendous value and performer compared to competing commercially manufactured OTL's, but I'll echo the others above in recommending a jump straight to the mainline for those with the requisite budget who are looking to drive high end dynamic cans (and who are comfortable with a more sophisticated build).
> 
> The tinkering and tweaking is really an end in and of itself and a whole lot of fun.  Also, a lot of us got into modding our cracks and tube rolling _before_ the mainline was available.  My crack, built back in 2011, for example, has a rather nice tkd pot, 100 uf obbligato coupling caps, and an axon bypassing the 3rd psu cap, in addition to the speedball.  I also have a pretty solid set of tube options, including all the usual suspects - various mullard, bugle boy, rca, tungsol 12au7/12bh7's and several 5998's, a GEC 6as7g, a 7802, various 6080's (previously a nos 7236) etc.  I still get _lots_ of listening enjoyment out of my crack every day in the office.  It is a very nice amp in its own right, but even with my hd650's (x10 with my hd800's), my ears instantly pick up on the fact that the mainline is a totally different and more sophisticated animal than the modded crack, irrespective of its tube complement.  Put on a good Decca recording or the like (e.g. Schiff's Goldberg Variations), and the mainline's refinement, details and speed become all the more apparent.
> 
> This is why I occasionally wave my arms in the air and try to discourage folks from investing $200 in a GEC tube when its 1/6 the price of the mainline (and really may or may not be any more enjoyable than a good 6080 or 5998 depending on a multitude of factors).  I picked up my GEC when they cost half that, and I know others have found reasonable deals on rebrands in particular on occasion.  But as you correctly imply, modding and tube rolling should not be with the expectation that the crack will overcome mainline in technical proficiency.


 
 Thank you very much for such a helpful and informative feedback. After reading this, I feel quite sorry that I already purchased a GEC Brown Base for pretty much more than you did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


loquah said:


> I recently heard a vintage Stax setup driven from a S.E.X. (no C4S) at the same meet as I heard HD800s on my Mainline. If I could have taken one setup home it would have been the Stax for sure - no contest to my ears


 
 Hi Lachlan,
  
 So why do you still own the Mainline? If you intend to sell your Mainline, I'm more than happy to be the first buyer


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Thank you very much for such a helpful and informative feedback. After reading this, I feel quite sorry that I already purchased a GEC Brown Base for pretty much more than you did
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha. My point was that I would gladly take the Stax over the HD-800. It was no reflection on the Mainline! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just today, I accidentally was listening to the T1s via the Mainline and forgot to switch to balanced and high impedance modes. Even working with its hands behind its back (so to speak) I was still marvelling at how good it all sounded


----------



## MoatsArt

Hi Kratos

Here's an idea. If you regret buying the GEC brown base, just sell it. I am sure you will have many willing buyers. You will probably make a profit as have others.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

loquah said:


> Haha. My point was that I would gladly take the Stax over the HD-800. It was no reflection on the Mainline!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It might be weird that I actually prefer the T1s + speedballed Crack/Mainline combo to the SR-507 + SR-323s. But 007 or 009 are totally a different story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


moatsart said:


> Hi Kratos
> 
> Here's an idea. If you regret buying the GEC brown base, just sell it. I am sure you will have many willing buyers. You will probably make a profit as have others.


 
 Hi MoatsArt,
  
 Haha, thanks for your suggestion. I didn't mean that I regret buying the GEC, just I couldn't get it for a better price. The GEC is truly one of the best power tubes for OTL amps, and it is my favorite tube for my Crack, but the fact that a single power tube costs nearly as much as the price of a Crack itself somewhat doesn't make sense, IMHO.


----------



## skeptic

Agreed, with all the OTL's on the market and the seemingly increasing demand for good 6as7g equivalents, I'm surprised some boutique tube manufacturer (like EML) hasn't purchased G.E.C.'s IP and tooling, if its still around, and started pumping these bad boys out.


----------



## punit

aeolus kratos said:


> Haha, thanks for your suggestion. I didn't mean that I regret buying the GEC, just I couldn't get it for a better price. The GEC is truly one of the best power tubes for OTL amps, and it is my favorite tube for my Crack, but the fact that a single power tube costs nearly as much as the price of a Crack itself somewhat doesn't make sense, IMHO.


 
 That's not the GEC's fault but the Crack's -  for being such a great amp at such a reasonable price


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

punit said:


> That's not the GEC's fault but the Crack's -  for being such a great amp at such a reasonable price


 

 Haha, well said, Punit. The Cracks are the best budget amps for high impedance headphones IMHO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here is a good news, I sold my Crack and I'm going to order a Mainline within this month. What is the BEST headphone paired with the Mainline in your opinion? I'm just having a K240 Sextett and HD650. I tend to choose between HD800 and T1, any ideas?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Haha, well said, Punit. The Cracks are the best budget amps for high impedance headphones IMHO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The T1 is sublime with the Mainline IMO and I'm yet to hear a pairing that is better (some are perhaps as good to my ears, but none yet are better). I know many like the HD800s with annax mod (I believe this is what Doc B uses), but I personally still find the sound a little etched for my tastes on wide ranging genres (it's epic with classical though).
  
 The best thing about the Mainline is that it's smooth and has excellent weight in the midrange, but it's still highly detailed with great extension so whatever you like on the Crack will just get better on the Mainline (smoother, more detailed treble, better staging, etc.). I'd base the decision on the headphones you already know that you like and just let the Mainline improve them.


----------



## Loquah

Just finished installing some Russian teflon caps in the S.E.X. and am listening now. Despite reports of significant burn-in requirements for teflons, the sound is already good - probably a slight improvement over the stock coupling caps.
  
 I'd say that the bass is initially a little boomy / loose, but not un-enjoyable. Details and textures through the midrange are excellent. At the treble end I think things are still a little edgy, but they have <10 minutes on them so no judgements being made just yet...


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


>


 

 Lachlan neat job it looks like they where made for mounting on top of the chokes. Give them some time and the bass should tighten up and treble smooth out with burn in. After a month or two try unclipping them the full benefits sneaks up on you quietly over a little time. Listening to the sex without them once again the difference should be much more noticeable.


----------



## Loquah

Thanks Jamie. They fit well there, don't they?

I'm expecting a new pair of LCD 2s to arrive this week so there should be plenty of burn-in in a hurry!

By the way, check out the Mainline cap thread at Bottlehead for some pics and a video.


----------



## mcandmar

They fit well if you don't have the impedance switch boards, i had to shoe-horn them into mine above the tube sockets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The midrange bloomyness will die down as the caps burn in, the biggest issue i had initially was a harshness in the high end making cymbals or other percussion instruments sound unpleasant.  Looking forward to hearing your thoughts when they have had some cooking time..


----------



## HPiper

Any thoughts on a already built amp with similar sound quality to the Mainline might be. I could probably build it but if I can get something similar without having to do that I would prefer that. Just looking at the photos it looks pretty difficult with a LOT of parts and solder connections.


----------



## JamieMcC

This looks an interesting product @ $22 the A5 Stereo Attenuator 36 positions course and fine adjustments, resistors are extra they offer a couple of options 24 Metal-Film -1dB/-6dB (+$8) & 24 Metal-Film -2dB/-12dB (+$5). 
  
 Waiting to confirm shipping price as the cart was quoting $30 to the UK so seeing if they will send via regular USPS

http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/a5stat.html


----------



## Loquah

hpiper said:


> Any thoughts on a already built amp with similar sound quality to the Mainline might be. I could probably build it but if I can get something similar without having to do that I would prefer that. Just looking at the photos it looks pretty difficult with a LOT of parts and solder connections.


 
  
 I haven't heard enough amps in the same league to comment, but it's a pretty safe bet that you'd be spending significantly more money than the cost of the Mainline kit. Having built four BH kits now, I'd rank them in order of difficulty like this:
  

Quickie
Crack
Mainline
S.E.X.
  
 I think the SEX is more difficult mainly because it is a bit cramped towards the end and there are lots of wires whereas the Mainline has more space and is more modular.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> This looks an interesting product @ $22 the A5 Stereo Attenuator 36 positions course and fine adjustments, resistors are extra they offer a couple of options 24 Metal-Film -1dB/-6dB (+$8) & 24 Metal-Film -2dB/-12dB (+$5).
> 
> Waiting to confirm shipping price as the cart was quoting $30 to the UK so seeing if they will send via regular USPS
> 
> http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/a5stat.html


 
  
 That's the same general concept as the Mainline setup


----------



## Loquah

I've been listening to the S.E.X. + HE-500s pretty solidly for the last few days and the teflons and Mundorfs are really starting to sing. I'm having a hard time going back to the Mainline + T1s now!!
  
 Just to clarify, the T1 / Mainline combo is still more resolving and technically superior, but the S.E.X. / HE-500 combo is SOOOOO enjoyable. Smooth, lots of texture and detail - a real treat to listen to. The upper mids have an extra level of energy and life to them now (especially with strummed guitars, etc.) Can't wait to try the LCD 2s when they arrive!!


----------



## skeptic

jamiemcc said:


> This looks an interesting product @ $22 the A5 Stereo Attenuator 36 positions course and fine adjustments, resistors are extra they offer a couple of options 24 Metal-Film -1dB/-6dB (+$8) & 24 Metal-Film -2dB/-12dB (+$5).
> 
> Waiting to confirm shipping price as the cart was quoting $30 to the UK so seeing if they will send via regular USPS
> 
> http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/a5stat.html


 
  
 Great find and thanks for sharing!  I've been trying to decide what attenuator to put in my ongoing wire build.  This seems like a great option!


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> Great find and thanks for sharing!  I've been trying to decide what attenuator to put in my ongoing wire build.  This seems like a great option!


 
  
 It does seam a reasonable price to experiment with I'm thinking in the Quickie or Crack and planned to go with the metal films -1dB/-6dB to start and might swap a few resistors out for something more boutique once I get a feel for the steppes most used.


----------



## JamieMcC

Can anybody help with a ebay link I am looking for, I remember seeing a  link for a seller with a handle like navguy  or navyman who was selling cables wiring etc but have been unable to find it again. I think the link was from here?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Can anybody help with a ebay link I am looking for, I remember seeing a  link for a seller with a handle like navguy  or navyman who was selling cables wiring etc but have been unable to find it again. I think the link was from here?


 
  
 I think you are looking for Navships.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/navships


----------



## JamieMcC

Yes indeedy that's the one thanks Paulie.


----------



## spacequeen7

^^^ I know where you can get (solid) 20 AWG Solid Silver Plated Teflon Audio DIY Wire if you interested


----------



## Zashoomin

spacequeen7 said:


> ^^^ I know where you can get (solid) 20 AWG Solid Silver Plated Teflon Audio DIY Wire if you interested


 
 http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html  I like this wire...its very colorful


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Happy to help 
  
 Whatchacookin' up?


----------



## JamieMcC

Cheers I am kind of thinking I would rather go either solid copper or solid silver rather than copper plated. I do have a pair of straight thru, silver with gold plating rca interconnects that I am tempted to cut up and use for signal wire. But as yet am undecided while pondering over the options.
  
 Lets have the link anyhow as there is a high probability I will change my mind.


----------



## spacequeen7

jamiemcc said:


> Cheers I am kind of thinking I would rather go either solid copper or solid silver rather than copper plated. I do have a pair of straight thru, silver with gold plating rca interconnects that I am tempted to cut up and use for signal wire. But as yet am undecided while pondering over the options.
> 
> Lets have the link anyhow as there is a high probability I will change my mind.


 
 same source 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/380867870799
  


> 10 feet of silver plated oxygen free copper wire with teflon insulation. This is 20 AWG solid wire with 1 strand. This is very high quality mil. Spec. wire made by Weico. The mil-spec number is M16878/4.  It is rated at 600V 200C. The OD of this wire is aprox. 0.0520 inch (1.32mm)


----------



## Loquah

I have only subjective listening to back this up (and an interesting article I read, but can't find), but I find plated cables sound consistently inferior to solid, pure cables. I always choose solid copper or solid silver before choosing plated cables.

The only explanation I've read that makes any sense is that the plated layer creates a point where reflections can form thus creating some noise in the original signal. In my experience, plated cables often have a slight harshness compared to pure cables so perhaps there's something to this theory...


----------



## Tequilasunriser

All due respect, but I highly doubt it makes a difference whether it's plated or not. I mean the connections are joined with lead an tin within the amp and the cables/connectors are made with gold plating over some other metal, the headphone jack is nickel plated. Best not to get involved in cable dogma.


----------



## mcandmar

loquah said:


> I have only subjective listening to back this up (and an interesting article I read, but can't find), but I find plated cables sound consistently inferior to solid, pure cables. I always choose solid copper or solid silver before choosing plated cables.
> 
> The only explanation I've read that makes any sense is that the plated layer creates a point where reflections can form thus creating some noise in the original signal. In my experience, plated cables often have a slight harshness compared to pure cables so perhaps there's something to this theory...


 
  
 Curious.  I swear by the navships teflon coated silver plated stuff, used it in many projects. For example in the S.E.X. amp i used,
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380770809219 3 core from impedance boards to XLR socket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231178888917 2 core from RCA inputs to attenuator


----------



## Loquah

tequilasunriser said:


> All due respect, but I highly doubt it makes a difference whether it's plated or not. I mean the connections are joined with lead an tin within the amp and the cables/connectors are made with gold plating over some other metal, the headphone jack is nickel plated. Best not to get involved in cable dogma.


 
  
 I thought the same and I still don't know one way or the other (so not trying to convince anyone of anything). I first started wondering when I bought an upgrade cable for some SE535s and I found that my experience with it went in reverse of my expectations. Placebo effects go in the direction of our expectations so for it to go in reverse means that *something* was going on - I just don't know exactly what that something was.
  
 After further tests of other cables, I continuously find that plated cables sound worse to me than pure copper or pure silver (although I tend to prefer copper). As I said, the plating thing is still just a theory and I don't know how anyone might measure it because it's so subtle and despite the human ear's relative insensitivity in some areas (such as volume level) it is insanely sensitive in other ways that may be more subtle than what we can / know how to measure (hence all the debate about headphone measurements, cables, etc.)
  
 To summarise (before we go way off topic) I have no idea what the truth is and can only say what my experience is knowing that it is often different to the experiences of others so I'm just sharing, not preaching or convincing.


----------



## Loquah

On other topics, my new "output" caps arrived today (technically they're coupling caps of some technical description, but I'm calling them output caps because they are closer to the output than the other ones I'm changing)
  
 Looking on the website I bought these from I thought they were about 120-150% the size of the 200uF power supply caps in the Mainline, but they're HUGE (in comparison to my expectations). I took a pic with an SD card to show the real life size.


----------



## MoatsArt

Nothing nicer than a picture of big cap


----------



## Loquah

Early impressions with the Auricaps installed is a slightly more transparent, cleaner sound. It's more subtle than something like the Mundorfs in the S.E.X., but that was kind of what I was aiming for to keep the Mainline as neutral as possible and it's succeeded.
  
 The sound is clean, uncoloured and incredibly detailed. I thought I detected a slight amount of harshness at first, but that's with <5 minutes burn-in so I won't read too much into it.
  
 I'll spend some quality time with the Mainline and T1s tomorrow and report back with more reliable impressions. Based on what I'm hearing right now though, I'm not going to be disappointed!


----------



## Doc B.

tequilasunriser said:


> All due respect, but I highly doubt it makes a difference whether it's plated or not. Best not to get involved in cable dogma.




The best way to avoid 'cable dogma' is build some cables with the different materials and form your own opinions. This post seems rather out of place in a thread about DIY tube amps and trying different tubes and caps.


----------



## Tequilasunriser

True! Some mods I see the virtue in, others I do not; however, I should probably keep those opinions to myself. After all, there's many aspects to this hobby and DIY audio, and the exploration is part of the fun.


----------



## Loquah

I've had a chance to spend some time with the Burson Soloist (HA-160) recently thanks to @atsq17 and have enjoyed comparing it to my now-modified S.E.X. amp. At first I thought the Soloist was out-performing the S.E.X. (which made me sad after the time and love put into the S.E.X.), but over a few listening sessions I've found that the Soloist seems to over-emphasise the separation between instruments somehow. The sound, like an over-sharpened image, becomes edgy and a bit unnatural as a result while the S.E.X. manages to provide the same levels of detail and clarity, but with an engaging warmth and coherency that keeps the music sounding natural, real and engaging, but still accurate and detailed. I'm wishing now that I also had an un-modified S.E.X. to compare so I could tell if the teflon and silver / gold / oil caps were largely responsible for the S.E.X.'s outstanding performance versus the Soloist or if it's purely the virtues of the amp design.
  
 By the way, I was comparing the 2 amps using my HE-500s which are a great match with both amps because of the available power. I didn't bother comparing them with the T1s or any other dynamic headphones because I use the Mainline for that purpose and the Mainline is miles ahead of the Soloist (IMO) in its refinement and quality of presentation.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

loquah said:


> I've had a chance to spend some time with the Burson Soloist (HA-160) recently thanks to @atsq17 and have enjoyed comparing it to my now-modified S.E.X. amp. At first I thought the Soloist was out-performing the S.E.X. (which made me sad after the time and love put into the S.E.X.), but over a few listening sessions I've found that the Soloist seems to over-emphasise the separation between instruments somehow. The sound, like an over-sharpened image, becomes edgy and a bit unnatural as a result while the S.E.X. manages to provide the same levels of detail and clarity, but with an engaging warmth and coherency that keeps the music sounding natural, real and engaging, but still accurate and detailed. I'm wishing now that I also had an un-modified S.E.X. to compare so I could tell if the teflon and silver / gold / oil caps were largely responsible for the S.E.X.'s outstanding performance versus the Soloist or if it's purely the virtues of the amp design.
> 
> By the way, I was comparing the 2 amps using my HE-500s which are a great match with both amps because of the available power. I didn't bother comparing them with the T1s or any other dynamic headphones because I use the Mainline for that purpose and the Mainline is miles ahead of the Soloist (IMO) in its refinement and quality of presentation.


 

 Wow, that's interesting, Loquah. I once owned the HA-160 for about a week. As soon as I heard the Speedballed Crack driving the HD650, I immediately sold my HA-160 to fund my Crack setup. I guess perhaps the HD650s are not as great for the HA-160 as the HE-500s are.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Wow, that's interesting, Loquah. I once owned the HA-160 for about a week. As soon as I heard the Speedballed Crack driving the HD650, I immediately sold my HA-160 to fund my Crack setup. I guess perhaps the HD650s are not as great for the HA-160 as the HE-500s are.
> 
> Cheers.


 
  
 Yeah, I definitely think the HA-160 is a good option for planars rather than dynamics (IMO), but it still is a bit too hard edged for my liking, even with the organic-sounding HE-500s.


----------



## JamieMcC

Are any of the Bottlehead SEX owners here also using them to drive speaker set ups?


----------



## mcandmar

Nope. I don't have any speakers efficient enough to use with it.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

jamiemcc said:


> Are any of the Bottlehead SEX owners here also using them to drive speaker set ups?


 
 Yes, I did. I once tried to use the SEX to drive my Klipsch B-20 and the Onkyo D-202AII . The result was great, nice sparkling treble, clean and detailed mid, good imaging but the bass lacked a bit of impact and quantity IMO


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

mcandmar said:


> Nope. I don't have any speakers efficient enough to use with it.


 
 The efficiency requirements are not strict, and depend on the environment.
  
 I have a pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v.3 (sensitivity specced at 87dB anechoic, 90dB room) I was originally afraid to even connect. Based on various posts, I expected they would strain the amp or not have usable output. Eventually I just tried it, and used in the medium field I feel the S.E.X. drives them perfectly well across the spectrum at normal listening levels. Granted, this also depends on your musical preferences; I prefer jazz, classical, vocals, etc. so your mileage may vary. I'm very happy with the system.
  
 The only issue is that I would like to go balanced with my HE-500s, and the binding posts are the easiest way to accomplish this...


----------



## mcandmar

Good to know, i might try it so and see how it performs.
  
 As for the balanced connection, the speaker binding posts accept banana style plugs as well as being a screw down connector.  Basically if you re-terminate your speaker connections with banana plugs they would be quick and easy to switch out for a headphone adapter.


----------



## Loquah

I drove some small bookshelf speakers for a little while and the sound was excellent in general, but the low sensitivity of the speakers led to a slight lack of bass. If you were using an active sub with a pair of monitors / bookshelf speakers, the S.E.X. can drive (slightly) lower sensitivity speakers without too much trouble.
  
 As for balanced connections, I'm about to install a 4-pin XLR socket at the front of my S.E.X. so will share the tale once it's done - hopefully without incident! I've actually removed the binding posts from mine and used the holes to mount RCA sockets which allow me to share the single RCA signal from my DAC with my other amps (Mainline and Quickie)


----------



## SilverEars

I heard crack's output impedance is 200ohms. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Why do people use it?  That's 2/3 of Sennheisers impedance at 1k.  Does it give pleasant colors to the phones?


----------



## Loquah

silverears said:


> I heard crack's output impedance is 200ohms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure if it's actually 200 ohms, but it is definitely around approx 150-160 ohms from memory.
  
 Traditionally I am a stickler for lowest possible output impedance, but something about the OTL design I think makes the Crack pair beautifully with 300-600 ohm phones and has even been reported to sound good with select lower impedance options too. I wouldn't say that the Crack does much to alter the natural sound of the headphones other than lending it's own slightly warm signature - certainly not some of the nasty effects of high output impedance on other devices I've tried.
  
 Perhaps someone can explain better why the Crack's output impedance doesn't have negative side effects to the sound because all I know is based on what I hear.


----------



## JamieMcC

silverears said:


> I heard crack's output impedance is 200ohms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I remember seeing the Crack listed as 120 Ohm output impedance with the 6080 tube and that it drops to around 70 Ohm output impedance with the Tung Sol 5998 tube.


----------



## ffivaz

silverears said:


> I heard crack's output impedance is 200ohms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, you could lower the impedance of the output tubes by adding some transformers. But then, it wouldn't be a Output Transformer Less design anymore. S.E.X. has transformers and drives about any headphone you can throw at. Now you have to live with the output tube impedance and choose carefully some really nice sounding, high impedance headphones : Beyerdynamics in the 250 to 600 Ohms (T1, 990, 880, 770), Senns : the HD650, 600 (300 Ohms) and of course the flagship HD800 (300 Ohms). Some say that the HD700 isn't the best choice at 150 Ohms. And some like the Crack's musicality even with lower impendance headphones.


----------



## SilverEars

jamiemcc said:


> I remember seeing the Crack listed as 120 Ohm output impedance with the 6080 tube and that it drops to around 70 Ohm output impedance with the Tung Sol 5998 tube.


 
 Intersting..  Thanks for this info.  I didn't know tube amp's output impedance was dependent on tube type.  This information does support why people tube roll and hear differences.
  
 What is the tube amp with the lowest distortion and impedance figures?


----------



## JamieMcC

silverears said:


> Intersting..  Thanks for this info.  I didn't know tube amp's output impedance was dependent on tube type.  This information does support why people tube roll and hear differences.
> 
> What is the tube amp with the lowest distortion and impedance figures?


 

 Normally I listen with T1 @ 600ohms & hd650 @ 300 ohms.
  
 However my ATH W1000X @ 42 ohms also sound really nice when plugged into the Crack with the 5998 tube with the 6080 the bass is noticeably a little loose in comparison however the mids are very nice and as I'm not a bass head I would happy live with the trade off. Sonic wise its easily good enough to live with long term.  It really surprised me how good the ATH were out of the Crack.


----------



## SilverEars

silverears said:


> I heard crack's *output impedance is 200ohms*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sorry, this is wrong.  It states, they recommend 200ohm load, not meaning output is 200ohms.  Sorry for this, I was very tired last night.


----------



## Loquah

silverears said:


> I'm sorry, this is wrong.  It states, they recommend 200ohm load, not meaning output is 200ohms.  *Sorry for this, I was very tired last night*.


 
  
 Haha. I think we all have at least one of *those* posts in our history!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

loquah said:


> Haha. I think we all have at least one of *those* posts in our history!


 
  
 And here I was hovering my cursor over the word 'those' hoping that it was a link


----------



## JamieMcC

Thanks for the feed back on the Sex with speakers


----------



## Doc B.

silverears said:


> What is the tube amp with the lowest distortion and impedance figures?




Usually the one with the most feedback. Based upon my limited experience I would suggest not relying upon a single spec to make a decision about which amp to use. You really have to listen to an amp with the headphones and source you plan to use to make an informed decision.


----------



## MoatsArt

Anyone want to feed my Bottlehead habit? Selling off some nice unused amp parts, including Teflon caps, beeswax caps and chokes. 

Reason - To partially fund Bottlehead DAC pre-release commitment.

http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,6257.0.html

Ch.. Ch... Check it out

.:evil:


----------



## punit

jamiemcc said:


> Sex with speakers


----------



## HPiper

I notice Doc always brings a bunch of HD800's to the meets, so I am assuming all the amps are pretty good with that phone.Which one sounds the best thought and by how much. Right now I am looking at the SEX for 2 reasons, price (obviously) but also because I have some Grado's also and I know that amp will work with both low and high imp phones. If the Mainline is really the last word though I may have to just bite the bullet and go for it. The build, I admit, is intimidating to me as I have never built anything that large or that complicated before, but others have done it so I probably can too.


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

From what I understand, with the HD800s the Mainline really shines. Same for the T1s. Certain very power hungry phones like the HE-6 are better served by the S.E.X., but neither Sennheiser nor Grado will be a challenge to the Mainline.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

From what I've heard so far, it's pretty surprising to say that I actually prefer the T1s to the HD800s when paired with the Mainline. The HD800s + Mainline combo sounds sometimes a bit harsh and fatiguing to me, but I've never felt that in the T1 + Mainline combo.


----------



## Loquah

hpiper said:


> I notice Doc always brings a bunch of HD800's to the meets, so I am assuming all the amps are pretty good with that phone.Which one sounds the best thought and by how much. Right now I am looking at the SEX for 2 reasons, price (obviously) but also because I have some Grado's also and I know that amp will work with both low and high imp phones. If the Mainline is really the last word though I may have to just bite the bullet and go for it. The build, I admit, is intimidating to me as I have never built anything that large or that complicated before, but others have done it so I probably can too.


 
  
 This may seem strange, but the Mainline is probably no more difficult and perhaps slightly easier to build than the SEX because it's so well laid out.
  


silvertrumpet999 said:


> From what I understand, with the HD800s the Mainline really shines. Same for the T1s. Certain very power hungry phones like the HE-6 are better served by the S.E.X., but neither Sennheiser nor Grado will be a challenge to the Mainline.


 
  
 Exactly right
  


aeolus kratos said:


> From what I've heard so far, it's pretty surprising to say that I actually prefer the T1s to the HD800s when paired with the Mainline. The HD800s + Mainline combo sounds sometimes a bit harsh and fatiguing to me, but I've never felt that in the T1 + Mainline combo.


 
  
 I personally agree, but many people love the HD800 with Mainline so I guess that's a personal taste thing.


----------



## HPiper

I currently have a Lyr and I love my HD800 on it. I would certainly think the Mainline was quite a bit more refined than the Lyr and so I doubt the treble would bother me...you see, old age does have some advantages. Either that or the Lyr is a better refined amp...probably not.


----------



## Priidik

Has anyone heard HD800-s with Mainline and DNA Sonett?
 Is the Sonett far behind in performance?


----------



## olegausany

I never heard HD800 with Mainline but for me Crack much more refined than Lyr

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


----------



## Doc B.

hpiper said:


> I notice Doc always brings a bunch of HD800's to the meets, so I am assuming all the amps are pretty good with that phone.




The HD800s I demo with (really just one pair, not a bunch) have the Anax mod and a non-stock cable. Both of these help to tame the forward treble.


----------



## HPiper

doc b. said:


> The HD800s I demo with (really just one pair, not a bunch) have the Anax mod and a non-stock cable. Both of these help to tame the forward treble.


 

 Probably overstated that a bit, just that everybody around your tables has an HD800 around their neck, obviously a lot of those are ones they brought with them. I guess I have owned Grado's for too long as the so called treble harshness or spike doesn't bother me at all with the stock phones. Thanks for taking the time to explain the unique volume controls on the Mainline to me, I have never seen anything like that but it certainly makes sense and it works, which is really all that matters. I was busy with stuff this last meet but I will come to the next one for sure and bring both my HD800's and my Grado's for a good listen. Looks like the Mainline is the one for me though at this point. (Gonna have to get a bigger desk for sure)


----------



## skeptic

Mainline with hd800s is simply phenomenal to my ears. Previously, I usually ran my hd800s with the anax mod in place out of my crack. I find the mod unnecessary and counterproductive with my Mainline, due to the beautifully extended and highly resolved yet smooth and sweet trebles.

Ears vary, and for some the hd800 will simply never be their headphone of choice. Others who own both report that they often favor the hd800s to their sr009s (and one of the guys who made that comparison runs them with an ecp l2, which is probably the closest commercial offering to the mainline, although based on an earlier and simpler bh design). If you own and are used to listening to hd800s with a variety of amps, I think you will find its pairing with the mainline to be anything but harsh.


----------



## JamieMcC

How have those RTI Teflons worked out for those who installed them in their Mainlines?


----------



## Priidik

skeptic said:


> Mainline with hd800s is simply phenomenal to my ears. Previously, I usually ran my hd800s with the anax mod in place out of my crack. I find the mod unnecessary and counterproductive with my Mainline, due to the beautifully extended and highly resolved yet smooth and sweet trebles.
> 
> Ears vary, and for some the hd800 will simply never be their headphone of choice. Others who own both report that they often favor the hd800s to their sr009s (and one of the guys who made that comparison runs them with an ecp l2, which is probably the closest commercial offering to the mainline, although based on an earlier and simpler bh design). If you own and are used to listening to hd800s with a variety of amps, I think you will find its pairing with the mainline to be anything but harsh.


 
 Thanks, the Mainline is on top of my list now!
  
 Out of my modest amps (Yulong DA8, Yulong D100) i feel that i miss better dynamics the most. I don't even mind the ss treble (haven't heard any tube amps though), but compared to HDVA600 my DA8 hp out sounds boring/lifeless. With some tracks even my cheap TDK ie800 out of Clip+ sounds better.
 I do need a cure. 
  
 Have you compared your Mainline with some great SS amps as well?


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> How have those RTI Teflons worked out for those who installed them in their Mainlines?


 
  
 I can't comment on the RTIs, Jamie, but the Auricaps are nothing short of perfect to my ears. Even though I would have previously said that the Mainline had no harshness at all, the Auricaps have refined the sound by another increment, but haven't altered the signature transparency and neutrality of the Mainline at all. They are completely transparent, but beautifully refined at the same time. For the money I couldn't be happier. There may be better caps out there, but I'm happy as the proverbial pig!
  
 I'll take proper photos of the install in the coming days to share on the original review post in this thread.


----------



## Loquah

Just added this to the original Mainline review post:
  
Cap Upgrade Update  
Over the past few weeks (April-May 2014) I've installed two sets of capacitors into the Mainline starting with a set of 18uF Auricap High Resolution capacitors in the position of the stock Dayton 10uF capacitors and a set of 0.1uF FT-3 teflon capacitors fresh from Romania replacing the stock 0.1uF Daytons on the Bias Regulator board.
 
FT-3 Teflons - 0.1uF 600V  
I'm going to start this update with the teflons on the regulator board. I've literally just finished this installation and it may require some time for burn-in of the teflon caps, but I honestly can't hear any noticeable difference in the sound and would question the value given that the installation is a bit ugly and clunky due to the size of these capacitors. As you can see in the image to the right, I've had to run fly leads from the teflon caps which are cable tied to the Auricaps. I've also use some heat shrink tape to create an insulating buffer to keep the teflon caps sitting a little way off the Auricaps (even though there should be no issue with them touching due to the plastic coating on the Auricaps.
 
These FT-3s cost around $10 per pair plus postage (via eBay) so it's a small enough investment that I really don't mind if they have done absolutely nothing to the sound because they haven't taken anything away and if they provide improvements after burn-in then that's great.
 
I found some variation in the bias settings (adjustments to ensure identical voltages for each output tube) following the install so if you do change the regulator caps be sure to double-check the biasing if you want to maximise performance.
 
Auricap High Resolution Polypropylene - 18uF 400V  
These have been in place for a few weeks now and are definitely a worthy upgrade. They cost me about $130 for the pair from a local supplier and are the best $130 I've spent in a while. As you can see in the pictures, they *just* fit in the space between the C4S boards and the output transformers, but still need a tie down using an adhesive anchor on the chassis (the same as the ones supplied with the Mainline kit to tie down the Cat 6 cables).
 
If you've read the review of the Mainline above, you'll know that the treble on the Mainline in stock form is extended and detailed, but still smooth and non-fatiguing. I did say in the original review that there's no hint of fatigue when listening to the Mainline, but I have to call myself a liar now and say that there must have been the tiniest hint of harshness / graininess there. I know that because now it's gone and its absence has left all of the Mainlines magic on full display. Don't get me wrong, the stock Mainline kit is in no way flawed. In fact, as I see it, the ability to spend $130 and 15 minutes to bring the amp to another level shows just how good this circuit is.
 
The sound with the Auricaps is basically identical to the overall sound of the stock Mainline only smoother, more defined and just better. Treble is smoother while still fully extended and detailed. Midrange textures are sophisticated and intricate, and the bass is extended, textured and punchy. As I said above, the best thing about the Auricaps in the Mainline is that they don't change a great thing. They keep the Mainline's signature and neutrality completely intact and just let it do what it does better. It's hard to say exactly how much influence the Auricaps have had on this next part, but I would swear that the Mainline now has a clearer, stronger image than before. This is most likely due to the slightly smoother treble allowing all the other auditory cues to arrive cleanly and accurately, but the staging and imaging now with the Beyer T1s is really magical. It was good before - outstanding even, but it definitely seems even better to these ears now. I am having "wow" moments multiple times each day.
 
One other note as to why I chose the 18uF rather than a direct replacement of the 10uF stock caps. From the reading I did, a larger capacitance can provide better bass response which I was keen to explore to see if there was any room for improvement in the case of the Mainline. The results are that if there's an improvement there I can't tell. The hardest challenge here is that you can't quickly A/B a capacitor change like this so it's all based on auditory memory and the difference in bass extension (if there is one) is small enough to be insignificant, unlike the change in sophistication and smoothness in the mids and treble.
 
Capacitor Wrap  
The only other caps in the circuit that could potentially benefit from upgrading are the electrolytics used on the power supply board, but they fit so neatly on the board and are already good quality Panasonic capacitors so the potential benefits here seem questionable (although I'm always open to being convinced otherwise).
 
If I were asked today what to upgrade in the Mainline, I would strongly urge building the stock kit first and then considering the Auricaps if you like the stock sound. If you yearn for something warmer or lusher - more tubey perhaps - then the Mundorf Supremes might be a better choice (write up of Mundorf Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil coming to the S.E.X. review soon), but I definitely think there's huge value in hearing the stock kit first so you know which way to tweak (or not tweak) the sound if you choose to upgrade the output (technically parafeed coupling) caps. Unless something changes in the coming days / weeks in which case I'll be back to edit this post, I wouldn't really recommend changing the regulator caps. Keep the build neat and simple.


----------



## Loquah

It's only fair that what's done for one is done for the other so here are my thoughts about the S.E.X. cap and attenuator upgrades (added to the original review post too):
  
Attenuator & Capacitor Upgrade - May 2014  
During May 2014 I began to modify my S.E.X. and Mainline amps beginning with the volume pot in the S.E.X. which I replaced with a stepped attenuator, assembled using high quality Dale Vishay resistors. I chose this particular attenuator because the Dale resistors are known to be very transparent and are actually the same as those used in the Mainline kit. By all accounts, you can achieve similar results with other options - the key is transparency.
 
Attenuator Installation  
The first thing to note if you are changing your attenuator (or potentiometer) is that you might need to carve out a bit of extra space from the locking channel where the pin / tab of the attenuator sits into the chassis plate in order to prevent it spinning. Thankfully, the aluminium chassis plate is easy to work with using either a hand-file or a dremel. You can see in the image to the right that I lengthened and slightly enlarged the stock groove in the chassis plate. This isn't visible from the top once the volume knob is in place so don't stress if it's not the tidiest job ever (so long as you don't overshoot the width of the volume knob, but that would take some extreme carelessness).
 
Once the hole is ready, mounting the new attenuator is as easy as the stock one. Remove the supplied nut and washer(s), insert the spline through the hole, align the locking tab / pin and tighten the nut from the top side of the chassis. That's it for mounting - simple! The next step is wiring and that can change depending on the model of attenuator you choose so please refer to the provided instructions for your attenuator of choice and the instructions from the S.E.X. kit. If you get stuck, the wonderful people on the Bottlehead Forum can also usually help.
 
Do be aware at this point though that you may find the stock volume knob sits a little higher than it used to. It's not a major drama, but for the aesthetically inclined, you might need to modify the stock knob or track down a different one if you want the knob sitting flush against the chassis.
 
Attenuator Sound Improvements  
You're not going to make a change like this unless there's a payoff so let's discuss what happens when you change the attenuator. The exact changes may vary depending the brand / model used, but if you go for something known for transparency (like I did) then you'll get a nice increase in the detail and clarity of your S.E.X. The signature of the amp doesn't change significantly other than perhaps a slight bit more brightness, but it's subtle enough that I'd say to expect no real change in signature and just an increase in detail retrieval and texturing of sounds.
 
As an upgrade, I would say it is absolutely worth it. Including the time taken to modify the hole in the chassis I would say this is a 1-2 hour project and delivers a sound upgrade second only to the C4S mod. You can complete this mod on a budget of about $50 USD, but can also spend a bit more for more exotic attenuators if you want to.
 
Capacitor Upgrades  
Next on my list was a double-barrelled capacitor upgrade. I approached the upgrade in 2 stages at the excellent advice of either @JamieMcC or @mcandmar - I apologise for not remembering which one gave that specific advice, but they both deserve kudos for their input and support over the course of multiple mod discussions around capacitors and the like. The reason for the 2-stage approach was to isolate the impact of each pair of capacitors, but the problem was that the sound was still limited by other caps in the system so I am going to summarise the whole upgrade in one hit because I can't truly describe the full potential of the FT-3 teflons I installed first without having upgraded the other (output) caps which then brought their own influence to the sound. Hopefully that makes sense...
 
  
I started off installing some FT-3 0.1uF teflon capacitors (the same as the ones used in the Mainline upgrade below) and immediately noticed improvements even though they require significant burn-in. These caps replaced the pillow-shaped brown / orange capacitors that sit over the tube sockets. Early improvements I noticed were cleaner, clearer textures in the sound and better layering of instruments in the soundstage (i.e. different instruments were now more clearly defined 'in space' within the soundstage). As I said above though, the full impact of the teflon caps couldn't reveal itself because they were hidden behind the stock output caps (which are good, but able to be improved).
  
Stage 2 was the installation of output capacitors - the ones that connect the sound to your ears (kind of). I chose the Mundorf Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil caps for this purpose after doing a lot of reading about this particular model's excellent warmth and midrange. I decided that the Mainline should stay as neutral as possible while the S.E.X. would become my fun, organic, musical amp. Don't get me wrong though - this doesn't mean I was trying to turn the S.E.X. into some kind of thick, syrupy mid-monster. I wanted musical, enjoyable sound that was still nimble, agile, liquid and accurate. The good news is that the mods were a resounding success.
 
With the Mundorfs installed, the S.E.X. instantly took another small step in a very positive direction. All of the sound was warmer and fuller, but not at all heavy or thick. Music is still well-paced and lively, but with a little more note weight (not quite as good as the Mainline in this regard, but closer) and more present mids.
 
The staging from the S.E.X. is still excellent, but the Mundorfs added to what I was already hearing from the FT-3 teflons by helping to deliver greater fine detail and textural cues.
 
No doubt there are even more (subtle) changes that took place as a result of my upgrades, but the inability to truly A/B makes a direct and detailed comparison impossible. What I can tell you by way of a summary is that the S.E.X. post-upgrade does everything good that I wrote about above only now slightly better and with a dash more soul and warmth. I imagine you could get similar improvements with different cap combinations too and encourage you to give it a go. Changing these 2 caps on the S.E.X. is a relatively easy process and it's fun to hear what results.


----------



## marshallmole

In preparation of the arrival of my T1s, I'm thinking of getting the S.E.X. But I'm also hoping to run the T1s balanced (which seem to benefit them), so I'm wondering if this can be done by using the S.E.X's speaker out with a speaker to 4pin XLR adapter. 
 Would like to hear your opinions about this. Thanks!


----------



## olegausany

You need balanced amp for that , SEX is single ended. But still i prefer HD800 from the speakers taps over headphones jack while Doc B. says there shouldn't be any difference. But i tried HD800 with SS amp with speakers taps and result was same


----------



## mcandmar

marshallmole said:


> In preparation of the arrival of my T1s, I'm thinking of getting the S.E.X. But I'm also hoping to run the T1s balanced (which seem to benefit them), so I'm wondering if this can be done by using the S.E.X's speaker out with a speaker to 4pin XLR adapter.
> Would like to hear your opinions about this. Thanks!


 
  
 You can, or drill another hole in the chassis plate and add an XLR socket like i did. I highly recommend buying the optional impedance switch boards as it makes the wiring very straight forward, you can wire for balanced operation without it but its a little more complicated.


----------



## marshallmole

I see. That's what I've suspected from its name... Thanks for confirming that. I'm in the awkward place trying to find a balanced amp with some of that tube magic, with a budget limit...


----------



## marshallmole

mcandmar said:


> You can, or drill another hole in the chassis plate and add an XLR socket like i did. I highly recommend buying the optional impedance switch boards as it makes the wiring very straight forward, you can wire for balanced operation without it but its a little more complicated.


 
 Oh wait, here seems to be a different opinion...? So do you mean it's only to adapt for the 4pin plug, or can the S.E.X. actually be turned into balanced? 
 olegausany have said that S.E.X runs single end, so what I've deduced is that the speaker out shares the negative pole. 
 Now we need some clarification X_X


----------



## mcandmar

He is right, sort of. The S.E.X. is single ended so you cannot create a true differencial signal path from your DAC to your headphones.  What you can do however is rewire the output transformers in such a way as to create a balanced output.  With the impedance switch boards the intention is that you wire the speaker binding posts to the +/- instead of to ground, or in my case i wired the XLR socket in that way.
  
 Note you cannot use both balanced and unbalanced at the same time, to switch between them you have to flick the switches on the impedance boards, or if you hard wired the entire setup your stuck with whatever you wired it for.


----------



## olegausany

Whichever way he chooses to go i still recommend them over regular headphones jack

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


----------



## marshallmole

Cool. Thanks, I guess I'll have to wait and see how the T1s pair with my current setup. I hope it's not too crappy...


----------



## marshallmole

olegausany said:


> Whichever way he chooses to go i still recommend them over regular headphones jack
> 
> Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


 
 Interesting, why would that make a difference?


----------



## olegausany

That's what i hear, details and transparency. When i tried it with SS amp it was confirmed by that amp owner who never heard headphones thru the speakers taps before and was surprised with result. We also tried LCD-2 with the same result. When i was getting SEX i still have for sale ability to use speakers taps was the reason i got it


----------



## mcandmar

With the S.E.X. 2.1 there is no difference between the regular headphone jack and speaker outputs, the speaker outputs are wired directly from the headphone jack.  With the S.E.X. 2.0 the headphone jack had resistors in series so it would sound slightly different and have a lower power output.


----------



## Doc B.

Differential and balanced are very different things. The S.E.X. amp is not differential (i.e. push-pull), because I don't think differential operation sounds as good as single ended. But the output of the S.E.X. amp can indeed be wired for balanced operation, which is defined as both hot and cold signal legs having the same impedance to ground. I encourage everyone to look up these terms and learn the distinction between the two.


----------



## olegausany

Thanks for info. The one I have exist since 2010 and still working great so probably why it's the difference plus it has upgraded resistors instead of stock


----------



## marshallmole

Thanks to everyone for their valuable input. Everything is clear now. I'm happy to say that the S.E.X remains in my short list of consideration. 
  
 I definitely agree that some tutorial about how headphone amp works (in principle) and differences between balanced/SE/differential would be super helpful and important. I'd guess that it doesn't require more than college physics level knowledge to understand.


----------



## JamieMcC

Has anybody tried the Chord Hugo with their bottlehead amps?


----------



## murrays

There are two separate and distinct usages of the term "single-ended" here:

(1) The S.E.X. output stage is running in single-ended class A configuration (as opposed to push-pull).
(2) Single-ended headphone wiring (the common norm) uses a shared common ground return.

Note that these are two different things. The meaning of "Single-ended" depends upon the context.


----------



## MoatsArt

Can infinity have a beginning? If so, it too is single ended.

I think there is something in that for all of us.


----------



## Loquah

LOL. That's deep, Nathan!


----------



## MoatsArt

Infinity is calling. Goodbye.


----------



## HPiper

I have just about decided that if I am going to get a headphone amp that I like and can afford I am going to have to build it myself so I am about to oder a SEX kit. My question is for you experienced builders out there (and this may prove helpful to anyone else contemplating building one of these). What tools do I need to build this in an optimal way. What size soldering iron, or soldering station (Any recommendations), solder sucker, small wire cutters. What else, vise? helping hands? magnifying glass/lens?


----------



## skeptic

Aside from the soldering station (I sprung for a hakko), this is the most valuable tool in a bottlehead kit building arsenal imo: http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Industries-Stripmaster-Wire-Stripper/dp/B000RFSWF8/ref=pd_sim_indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=10GEE2ZPHSWJKANTABZQ
  
 Also, cardas quad eutectic solder is really really easy to work with and makes beautiful joints.


----------



## jodgey4

http://www.amazon.com/X-TRONIC-MODEL-4010-XTS-Centigrade-ANTI-MAGNETIC/dp/B0053491YO/ is recommended in the Bottlehead forums, then just grab some solder (I have a nice roll of 100g Cardas Eutectic on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), maybe a solder sucker and you're good to go!


----------



## Loquah

I'd agree with the others, but would also add:
  

Long / needle nose pliers (to hold some of the fiddly nuts)
Philips head screw driver
Wire cutters (large and small ideally, but small is ideal for trimming excess wire in some of the more congested areas)
Masking tape (to hold screws in place while working with the transformers upside down)
Basic test meter with voltage and impedance readings - preferably get some alligator clips to go with this to make testing safer and easier, but you can do it without so long as you're careful
  
 Many of these things are mentioned in the manual so just sharing here to save you time waiting for the manual to arrive. As others have said, it's a pretty simple (but awesome) kit so no super-specialised tools are needed


----------



## guirr

How hard is it to build a S.E.X?


----------



## Loquah

It requires patience and care, but not high skill levels.
  
 You need to be able to follow instructions and make a clean solder joint between a bare wire and a solder terminal (i.e. flat piece of metal with a hole in it). If you want to add the C4S upgrade kit then you need to be able to do some simple circuit board soldering, but nothing really finicky or tricky like soldering tiny surface mount components or anything.


----------



## HPiper

loquah said:


> I'd agree with the others, but would also add:
> 
> 
> Long / needle nose pliers (to hold some of the fiddly nuts)
> ...


 

 I was an electronics technician before I retired so I have most of that stuff already except for the soldering station ( I just have a Weller Pen) and the fancy stripper. I have a Klein but it is all manual, I like the one in the link a lot better. I saw someone say that the Hakko FX-888D is a good unit? It doesn't include all that other nice stuff though like the magnifying lens.
  Thanks, I think I need to order a soldering station and some of the special solder (Eutectic) and I'll be good to go.


----------



## Loquah

Perfect! Enjoy!


----------



## askjeebs

I don't know if this is an obvious thing (clearly it wasn't for me) but if you wanted to treat/coat/paint your transformers, mounting plate and plate chokes, make sure you do so before you mount and wire them up. You can leave them untreated/coated but they will rust a bit. They may also be covered in some residual glue/gunk so having some sandpaper is handy.
  
 I know it sounds stupid but it is really easy to get overly-excited and just get started on the build as soon as possible, and unfortunately there is no warning in the manual about painting prep (probably because for most people it's common sense - something I lack).
  
 Finally if you're gluing the base together you'll need some wood glue. Blumenstein Audio has some screw-together bases that match the Orcas if you wanted to go that route, and the option of adding a plastic bottom window, but they're pretty dear.


----------



## HPiper

One final, well I hope final, question. I got everything ready to order, but the question I have is that these new digital soldering stations are an analog type of device. I have to dial in a temperature. What temperature should I be using for the eutectic solder and the type connections I am likely to be making in the kit. I am sure a bit of experimenting might be required but if you could get me close at least. If it matters I ordered the one linked at the begining of this conversation (X-Tronic 4410XTS).


----------



## JamieMcC

hpiper said:


> One final, well I hope final, question. I got everything ready to order, but the question I have is that these new digital soldering stations are an analog type of device. I have to dial in a temperature. What temperature should I be using for the eutectic solder and the type connections I am likely to be making in the kit. I am sure a bit of experimenting might be required but if you could get me close at least. If it matters I ordered the one linked at the begining of this conversation (X-Tronic 4410XTS).


 

 I find 750°F works well for me with the Cardas.  But as always try it and see with a few practice joints the nice thing with the stations is that its easy to adjust the temp as you go.
  
 Edit I would add a pair of lockable medical forceps straight and curved to the list they are really handy for holding wires in place or out of the way, I find myself using them all the time.  Also if your worried about soldering and overheating a component you can clip them in and use them as heat sinks while soldering. Only a few dollars on ebay.


----------



## Misterrogers

I use two stations; a JBC and a Metcal. I The Metcal is great for doing heat sensitive SMD work. The JBC is cheaper and a great value. You can get cheaper stations, but after going through a handful of less expensive ones - I'm convinced that if you plan to do this often you can't beat the performance you get from a better station.


----------



## mcandmar

Its worth planning ahead for the cosmetic side of things, how are you going to finish the transformer bell, chokes, and wood base.   For me that was the more challenging part as i had zero wood working experience, to the extent the amp was running out of a cardboard box for the first week.


----------



## HPiper

mcandmar said:


> Its worth planning ahead for the cosmetic side of things, how are you going to finish the transformer bell, chokes, and wood base.   For me that was the more challenging part as i had zero wood working experience, to the extent the amp was running out of a cardboard box for the first week.


 

 I have zero woodworking experience also, but my wife is big into crafts so she is going to do that part of it.


----------



## askjeebs

mcandmar said:


> Its worth planning ahead for the cosmetic side of things, how are you going to finish the transformer bell, chokes, and wood base.   For me that was the more challenging part as i had zero wood working experience, to the extent the amp was running out of a cardboard box for the first week.


 
  
 This was mine for the first week while waiting for glue to arrive:


----------



## Loquah

askjeebs said:


> This was mine for the first week while waiting for glue to arrive:


 
  
 That reminds me of my Quickie setup using the carton it was shipped in:
  

  
 For a more attractive finish (than a cardboard box), I've just discovered the wonder of wood polishes and waxes. I've applied 3-4 coats of polish (wax based) and 1-2 coats of harder finishing wax. I plan to continue applying wax until I get a really deep sheen. I love the fact that you can keep adding to the wax without having to sand in between and there's also no problems with dust or other things affecting the surface finish like what can happen with varnish and lacquer. So far so good:


----------



## audiowize

olegausany said:


> You need balanced amp for that , SEX is single ended. But still i prefer HD800 from the speakers taps over headphones jack while Doc B. says there shouldn't be any difference. But i tried HD800 with SS amp with speakers taps and result was same


 
  
 Balanced/unbalanced is a cabling interface, with the distinction being related to how ground is treated.  The SEX can be wired for either, and with the impedance switch kit a balanced output is easily obtained from the speaker taps.


----------



## olegausany

Thanks for info . This is the way i was using it


----------



## marshallmole

Okay now the T1s have arrived, and it's just as I expected, that my NFB10SE has enough power but not enough refinement for their full potential. I'm hoping to add a touch of warmth with an amp, will the SEX be able to do that? I fear that the Crack would be too warm for my taste. 
 Also what kind of advantage would I get with C4S upgrade? More refinement in mids? I read Loquah's review but didn't get the gist about the effect of C4S...
 I'm currently considering the SEX and Yulong A18. Thanks!


----------



## JamieMcC

marshallmole said:


> Okay now the T1s have arrived, and it's just as I expected, that my NFB10SE has enough power but not enough refinement for their full potential. I'm hoping to add a touch of warmth with an amp, will the SEX be able to do that? I fear that the Crack would be too warm for my taste.
> Also what kind of advantage would I get with C4S upgrade? More refinement in mids? I read Loquah's review but didn't get the gist about the effect of C4S...
> I'm currently considering the SEX and Yulong A18. Thanks!


 

 Don't discount the Crack it can be stunning with the T1's


----------



## marshallmole

Yeah I'm not exactly discounting them, in fact I'm just suspecting that it might be too warm for me... Also I'm hoping to run T1s balanced, which is more plausible with SEX apparently. I have a speaker tap to 4-pin XLR adapter. 
 Definitely open to your opinions. Thanks!


----------



## SilverTrumpet999

marshallmole said:


> Okay now the T1s have arrived, and it's just as I expected, that my NFB10SE has enough power but not enough refinement for their full potential. I'm hoping to add a touch of warmth with an amp, will the SEX be able to do that? I fear that the Crack would be too warm for my taste.
> Also what kind of advantage would I get with C4S upgrade? More refinement in mids? I read Loquah's review but didn't get the gist about the effect of C4S...
> I'm currently considering the SEX and Yulong A18. Thanks!


 
 The stock SEX is great, and it has a variety of official and unofficial upgrades to make it excellent. I've yet to hear much that can compete with my upgraded SEX, regardless of price, but I have no direct experience with the Yulong A18. Or, for that matter, the Mainline.
  
 Generally speaking the consensus is that the C4S is the single most significant upgrade for the SEX. The improvements are not subtle, and can be heard in all areas. It's also one of the least expensive, so there's really no reason to skip the C4S.


----------



## olegausany

Don't forget about tubes rolling on Crack


----------



## Loquah

marshallmole said:


> Okay now the T1s have arrived, and it's just as I expected, that my NFB10SE has enough power but not enough refinement for their full potential. I'm hoping to add a touch of warmth with an amp, will the SEX be able to do that? I fear that the Crack would be too warm for my taste.
> Also what kind of advantage would I get with C4S upgrade? More refinement in mids? I read Loquah's review but didn't get the gist about the effect of C4S...
> I'm currently considering the SEX and Yulong A18. Thanks!


 
  
 The C4S is refined and perhaps a tiny bit warm, but not as much as other tube amps I've tried.
  
 In terms of the C4S, I can only describe what it does as bringing all the music into sharper focus (including the mids). Imagine looking at an image through your camera that is just a hair off perfect focus (so little that you can't tell until it's made perfect) and then adjusting it so that everything suddenly becomes even sharper and clearer. That's what the C4S does - it just makes everything about the S.E.X. significantly better, but it doesn't alter the signature at all. So yes, refinement in mids, but also in treble and bass. The idea of the C4S (and Speedball for the Crack) is to apply a higher load to the tubes which helps them to operate consistently at stable, peak performance so you're just getting the best possible sound out of the circuit. That's why it doesn't really change the sound signature, but rather just refines everything to be better at what it already did. (Or at least, that's my layman's understanding)
  
 As for S.E.X. vs Crack. A modded Crack with a better attenuator / volume pot and a nice set of output caps can sound exceptional, but will still have a more intimate presentation than the S.E.X. I wouldn't worry too much about warmth, because the Crack can easily be tuned with caps and tubes to be thick and creamy or airy and transparent (but still with some lovely tube warmth). I would probably base my decision on 2 things:

Are you willing to modify the Crack after you build it (i.e. change caps, attenuator, etc.)?
What sort of presentation do you like? 3D, but intimate (Crack) or spacious and open (S.E.X.)?
  
 If you're not wanting to mod the design, you will definitely find the S.E.X. to be superior (IMO), but with about $150 worth of mods I would say the Crack (+Speedball) easily can hold it's own with the S.E.X.


----------



## marshallmole

In terms of presentation, I'm sure I'd prefer a spacious open sound, so I'll perhaps go the SEX route. Thanks everyone!


----------



## Solarium

I recently bought my crack+speedball from M***drop and would like to have someone build it for me. Is there someone recommended on the forums, and how much do they typically charge for this?
  
 Also do I just ship it to them?
  
 Thanks all


----------



## Loquah

solarium said:


> I recently bought my crack+speedball from M***drop and would like to have someone build it for me. Is there someone recommended on the forums, and how much do they typically charge for this?
> 
> Also do I just ship it to them?
> 
> Thanks all


 
  
 Take a look on the Bottlehead site and forums. They have a "recommended" builder mentioned there.


----------



## punit

solarium said:


> I recently bought my crack+speedball from M***drop and would like to have someone build it for me. Is there someone recommended on the forums, and how much do they typically charge for this?
> 
> Also do I just ship it to them?
> 
> Thanks all


 
 I would have recommend Loquah . I bought one built by him , but you are in US so a US based builder would be better for you.


----------



## JamieMcC

If anyone is UK/EU based on a budget and after a nice pair of 100uf film output caps for their Crack I have just listed two used but perfectly working 100uf 400V DC Solen film capacitors. I found them very similar sounding to the JFX premium films and as such don't require two different makes of capacitors that sound so similar in my growing pile so the Solens are now up for grabs if anyone is interested..
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solen-100uf-400V-DC-Film-Capacitor-x-2-/121352137226?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1c4126aa0a


----------



## JamieMcC

I tried running the crack today with just the 10uf rti teflons as the coupling cap after taking out the 100uf films. It was quiet interesting and while there was a lot wrong with the presentation particularly in the lower registers the upper mids and vocals seemed particularly clean even if they did have a slight leanness about them.  What I was surprised at was that it was still enjoyable enough to listen to in spite of the obvious shortcomings I really thought it would be terrible.


----------



## Solrighal

I'm sorely tempted to get myself a Crack, especially since I read it pairs very well with my HD650's. Has anyone shipped the kit to the UK? Does it travel well? I haven't used a soldering iron since school so is there a particular one I should be looking at?


----------



## JamieMcC

Yes there are a few UK Cracks here I think shipping was around £35 I really cant remember what the import duty was perhaps someone else who has received one recently will chip in.


----------



## Solrighal

Thanks for the quick response. I expect I'll get hammered by the tax man.


----------



## olegausany

I saw already assembled one from uk in for sale forum.
Also for those in US i'm selling the Crack i recently got from Matt so if anyone interested PM me before i post it tomorrow morning. I know there are several there already but they just stock units while mine has several upgrades


----------



## pduk

solrighal said:


> I'm sorely tempted to get myself a Crack, especially since I read it pairs very well with my HD650's. Has anyone shipped the kit to the UK? Does it travel well? I haven't used a soldering iron since school so is there a particular one I should be looking at?


 
 I ended up paying £26.96 import for a crack plus speedball, which wasn't too bad (this was in the discount sale a few weeks ago so it was something like 5% off). 
  
 It got here perfectly well, they package everything up very well. I used a cheap 40W soldering iron with no problems, though I have done quite a lot of soldering in the past. People seem to think a temperature controlled solder station is a good idea.


----------



## Solrighal

£26 isn't too bad really. I would be happy with that. I need to check out the FS thread though if there's one in the UK for sale.

Thanks.


----------



## MoatsArt

Let me know if you want a pair of those RTI 10uF teflon caps. I bought some from a TC tubes that I wont be using (getting out of DIY & tube amps). Selling for $210. Send me a PM if you are interested.

Cheers

Nathan


----------



## dsavitsk

doc b. said:


> skeptic said:
> 
> 
> > .  Recall that mainline is very similar in design to the ecp l-2, which sold for $2,500.
> ...




Sorry to reply to such an old post, but I thought I'd provide some context. Back in the day I saw Gary Dahl's Espressivo amp. I wanted one but could not afford the parts, so I decided to replicate it with cheap parts. Using the same basic topology, but under $100 in hardware, I made the Less-pressivo, which my wife cleverly re-spelled as the L'espressivo. I made a lot of modifications to the circuit over time (which are sadly offline right now due to a server crash -- maybe I'll find time to revive them) including making 71A based version using OPTs from Intact Audio. That is, I managed to make it really expensive again.

After a lot of experiments and some subtle circuit changes, I decided to make a few and sell them. I thought about calling the amp the L'espressivo, but I didn't want to step on Gary's toes, and I was unable to reach him to ask if he minded. So I called it the L-2 instead. I was aware of the Bottlehead amp which I assumed to be a parafeed spud (and that I think it is cool, and I think the Mainline is cool) but the L-2's direct progenitor is the above mentioned Espressivo. Maybe Doc can illuminate whether the Espressivo came from the 417 experiments.


----------



## Doc B.

Hi Dave!
  
 Gary and I live about five miles from each other. He did part of the build of his amp in my basement after I built the original proof of concept prototype for my big headphone amp, which was a 6C45pi spud with 6CK4 hybrid shunt regs. This looks to be a pic of the test fit of the layout of that POC amp, from maybe about 2001? The TL404 outputs used went into the big headphone amp I built after that. I try to purge the old project stash on a regular basis but I seem to recall that chassis is still kicking around in the old lab. On a side note that big amp from 2003 ended up being converted by us to use 437As a year or two ago, at the request of the client who purchased it.


----------



## dsavitsk

Cool. To add to the lineage, we also did the Torpedo which is the same basic design, but with less expensive parts -- an actual L'espresso. Sounds remarkably good still.

Doug


----------



## Doc B.

Cripes, did I type Dave? I was thinkin' Doug. Sorry about that.


----------



## MoatsArt

Pretty happy with the way my Submissive turned out.  Highly recommended for use with the Crack.  I imagine that it would be a worthy companion for the SEX amp as well.


----------



## spacequeen7

where did you find them knobs Art ?
 P.S. looks great


----------



## Armaegis

At first I thought he was using doorknobs...


----------



## JamieMcC

Nathan, great job your submissive looks real Gucci. I also would like to know where did you find those knobs?


----------



## MoatsArt

Thanks guys.

I bought these from a German eBay store, which I am having trouble tracking down atm. 

Have two spare knobs that I was going to give to whoever buys my submissive.

Cheers!

Nathan


----------



## JamieMcC

This looks like it
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/guitare-knob-metal-chrom-gold-retro-Vintage-Style-Volume-Tone-control-/171328721794?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Sonstige&hash=item27e3fcd382


----------



## MoatsArt

That's the seller! 40 mm hold version of this knob.


----------



## JamieMcC

Just joined the Sex club or should that be club Sex! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Now to have some fun hunting down a few extra goodies to go inside while waiting for arrival.


----------



## Loquah

Nice! Did you get it with the special price deal?
  
 What plans do you have for upgrades?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Just joined the Sex club or should that be club Sex!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh, quit screwing around, Jamie.


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Nice! Did you get it with the special price deal?
> 
> What plans do you have for upgrades?


 

 Hi Lachlan yes I bagged one of the ones in the special deal, I was sitting on my hands but in the end succumbed to the temptation. As for upgrades stock first then the normal suspects as per yours and Mark's, who also has had been kindly helping me with options I suspect there will be more than a few questions after I digest more of the options. A stepper for sure,  I already have a few caps and a C-3X choke that might be options depending on voltage ratings etc. I need to do some more homework first looking forward to trying out some speakers with it as well.
  
 Cheers
  
 Jamie


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> Oh, quit screwing around, Jamie.


 
  
 You may laugh but I had to do some fast talking over that comment, I was grinning to myself as I wrote it on the lap top and the misses decided to look over and see what I was grinning at and saw the joining a sex club line, this was quickly followed by a grilling the Spanish inquisition would have been proud of which due to my inability to think fast enough meant I disclosed my new purchase rather sooner than intended! Where I might have just got away with saying I built it and snuck it in under the radar.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> You may laugh but I had to do some fast talking over that comment, I was grinning to myself as I wrote it on the lap top and the misses decided to look over and see what I was grinning at and saw the joining a sex club line, this was quickly followed by a grilling the Spanish inquisition would have been proud of which due to my inability to think fast enough meant I disclosed my new purchase rather sooner than intended! Where I might have just got away with saying I built it and snuck it in under the radar.


 
  
 That's hilarious!! Gotta love all the different ways head-fi can get us into trouble!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> You may laugh but I had to do some fast talking over that comment, I was grinning to myself as I wrote it on the lap top and the misses decided to look over and see what I was grinning at and saw the joining a sex club line, this was quickly followed by a grilling the Spanish inquisition would have been proud of which due to my inability to think fast enough meant I disclosed my new purchase rather sooner than intended! Where I might have just got away with saying I built it and snuck it in under the radar.


 
  
 Hahaha.  Don't ever change the way you are!
  
 Too funny.  I am very much looking forward to your build after what you did with you Crack.  If you are getting the SEX (or is it a SEX?), I suppose that means maybe I have to get as well though....  
  
 All the best!


----------



## JamieMcC

Just hooked up my Crack to a home brew passive pre which is a first for me! I am trying it out with a 36 step course and fine attenuator set up (its my poor mans version of the Submissive which was my inspiration).  Feeling quiet pleased as its all gone reasonably well it. Its not yet finished as am going to add a source and output selectors tidy up the wiring etc. But wanted to get it working and check out how its sounded prior to finalising the wiring in of the selector switches in case anything needed tweaking.


----------



## skeptic

Very cool Jamie!  Is this using the glassware product you linked several months back http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/a5stat.html ?  I'm still really tempted to pick one of these up to use with the wire amp i'm building, but finding an appropriate enclosure is proving to be something of a challenge.


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> Very cool Jamie!  Is this using the glassware product you linked several months back http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/a5stat.html ?  I'm still really tempted to pick one of these up to use with the wire amp i'm building, but finding an appropriate enclosure is proving to be something of a challenge.


 
  
 Hi skeptic yes its the one from Glassware the same one in your link. I was very happy with the quality of the pcb and the switches from them its nicely screen printed and the switches have a nicer feel to them than the Valab which is a little clunky in comparison. It also comes with a little booklet with resistor values and placements and connection diagrams for adding the pcb based switches they also offer. I haven't had much chance other than for a quick listen so will not comment on sonics. However I do really like the course and fine adjustment its very nice to be able to get the volume just right.
  
 I think I will look into changing the resistor values of the sic course adjustment resistors as its running a touch to loud on the minimum setting for one of my source inputs so will look into the values needed for a bit more balance and a fuller range between my different sources. I think that's called padding down but am sure if that is the right term or not? The fine values are well fine  and I'm using the Metal-Film -1dB/-6dB version the booklet also gives values for the -2dB/-12dB.


----------



## JamieMcC

Little update on the A5 attenuator passive pre amp. Sonic wise its very similar to the Valab there are some subtle differences such a shade more resolution and a shade less midrange body maybe just the result of being slightly brighter? Its hard to pin down and am unsure if this is due to the resistors or perhaps have a hunch it might be the silver plated copper solid core 26 awg hook up wire I used from nav ship (on ebay) but will try non silvered plated hook up wire later on and see if this changes.
  
 While with the T1's the differences where subtle over the Valab which really I guess is to be expected.
  
 As with any new toy I later tried it out in front of my Teac solid state amp in my speaker system and the difference was anything but subtle, what a result just way more  resolved and musical!


----------



## Loquah

Nice experimentation, Jamie. I'm keen to hear what the change in hook-up wire does.
  
 On another note, I forgot to share here yesterday (I shared over in Bottleland) that I finally got around to Installing the 4-pin XLR in my SEX and therefore wiring for balanced output to the headphones. Because of my placement of the Teflon caps where the impedance switches go, and because I never plan to use passive loudspeakers, I hard wired for balanced operation rather than using the switches. Thanks to the gurus from the BH forum (aka Bottleland) the process was simple:
  
 XLR Pin 1: Left +
 XLR Pin 2: Left -
 XLR Pin 3: Right +
 XLR Pin 4: Right -
  
 There also needs to be a 100ohm (approx.) resistor between each pin and ground (i.e. the socket ground tab, chassis, etc.)
  
 All-in-all the hardest part was cutting the larger hole for the XLR socket and the sound improvement is significant with the LCD 2s - more resolving, sharper image, and possibly slightly larger stage.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

I'm proud to be a Bottlehead fan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  

  

  
  
 The new DHT SMASH preamp sounded really awesome with the S.E.X 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 P/S: sorry for the photo qualities, the camera of my iPod is just bad!


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> I'm proud to be a Bottlehead fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I didn't know you owned Orcas!!!!


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

loquah said:


> I didn't know you owned Orcas!!!!


 

 Oops! Sorry, I initially thought you weren't interested in speakers


----------



## Loquah

aeolus kratos said:


> Oops! Sorry, I initially thought you weren't interested in speakers


 
  
 Not as much, and I use active speakers so no amp required, but the SEX + Orca pairing is very interesting.


----------



## M3NTAL

Nobody is talking Smack in here!  I wish I had other Bottlehead amps to compare with, but I have a Smack kit with some small changes (Caps and Pot) and have been enjoying it for a while now. Seems to work with most everything except sensitive balanced armature in ear monitors.


----------



## Loquah

m3ntal said:


> Nobody is talking Smack in here!  I wish I had other Bottlehead amps to compare with, but I have a Smack kit with some small changes (Caps and Pot) and have been enjoying it for a while now. Seems to work with most everything except sensitive balanced armature in ear monitors.


 
  
 No, the Smack is retired isn't it? (Or have I just lost track of all the crazy names? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## M3NTAL

Unfortunately it was retired. Doc had good reasons too and I don't blame him as a business man.


----------



## JamieMcC

aeolus kratos said:


> I'm proud to be a Bottlehead fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice set up Kratos and interesting to see the Mainline with the headphones and other amps in close proximity I know they give the measurements and there are lots of pics about but somehow I had got it in my head the Mainlines footprint was much bigger. I don't know how that came about so its good to see it is more compact than I thought. How did you get on with shipping the speakers did they come flat packed or ready assembled?
  
 Cheers


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Nice set up Kratos and interesting to see the Mainline with the headphones and other amps in close proximity I know they give the measurements and there are lots of pics about but *somehow I had got it in my head the Mainlines footprint was much bigger*. I don't know how that came about so its good to see it is more compact than I thought. How did you get on with shipping the speakers did they come flat packed or ready assembled?
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 Perhaps because it is much bigger than the Crack and / or S.E.X. - particularly in depth because it's as deep as it is wide. My Crack and S.E.X. both fitted on the bench beside my desk, but the Mainline hangs well over the edge (and therefore has to go on my desk).


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Perhaps because it is much bigger than the Crack and / or S.E.X. - particularly in depth because it's as deep as it is wide. My Crack and S.E.X. both fitted on the bench beside my desk, but the Mainline hangs well over the edge (and therefore has to go on my desk).


 
  
 Yes I expect so, photographs can sometime be deceptive, Those close up shots of the HLMP-6000 biasing LED's for the Crack spring to because the perspective is required for the manual they look quiet big and you think ok that looks easy enough, when actually they are tiny and rather fiddly.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Yes I expect so, photographs can sometime be deceptive, Those close up shots of the HLMP-6000 biasing LED's for the Crack spring to because the perspective is required for the manual they look quiet big and you think ok that looks easy enough, when actually they are tiny and rather fiddly.


 

 Haha. Don't remind me! I'm going to have dreams about melted LEDs tonight!!


----------



## rated1975

Loquah, if you were contemplating a new HD600/800 would you recommend the Crack or S.E.X.


----------



## Loquah

Hmmm. Tough call.

What sorts of music do you favour?

Do you like spacious or intimate presentations? I.e. Front row seats or a back a bit with more if a wider perspective?


----------



## rated1975

Music = mostly classical, baroque, period instruments, acoustic, and to a lesser extent most other forms of music
I would be most interested in the amp which could convey the quality and intent of the recording most accurately, naturally and neutrally.
If the recording was recorded in a spacious environment, i would want to hear this. Same goes for an intimate recording.


----------



## Loquah

rated1975 said:


> Music = mostly classical, baroque, period instruments, acoustic, and to a lesser extent most other forms of music
> I would be most interested in the amp which could convey the quality and intent of the recording most accurately, naturally and neutrally.
> If the recording was recorded in a spacious environment, i would want to hear this. Same goes for an intimate recording.


 
  
 I would probably suggest the S.E.X. in that case as it conveys a larger sense of space and detail in the music, but not artificially so - just showing you what's there in a spacious way. A friend who's judgment I trust believes the S.E.X. + HD800 combo to be among the very best he's heard for classical recordings.
  
 It's very important to get the C4S add-on for the S.E.X. as it makes a HUGE difference!!


----------



## tdogzthmn

I can also confirm the SEX sounds great with a variety of headphones.  Id start with and HD600 over an HD800 for the versatility of the HD600.  I owned both headphones and dumped the HD800 after a few months.  Maybe if I only listened to classical the HD800 would have stayed around longer but now that I have a pair of STAX which blow away everything Ive owned except the K1000 which are incredible in their own right


----------



## tdogzthmn

aeolus kratos said:


> Oops! Sorry, I initially thought you weren't interested in speakers


 

 Ive got a 5.1 Orca system which is lovely!


----------



## skeptic

Does anyone with a mainline happen to know how much the amp weighs? I realized we don't own a scale at present and I'm trying to figure out which sorbothane feet to buy. Thanks in advance to anyone able to lend a hand!


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

skeptic said:


> Does anyone with a mainline happen to know how much the amp weighs? I realized we don't own a scale at present and I'm trying to figure out which sorbothane feet to buy. Thanks in advance to anyone able to lend a hand!


 

 Not sure about the exact number for a built one, but the package of my Mainline parts was about 11 lbs ( approx 5 kg).
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## skeptic

aeolus kratos said:


> Not sure about the exact number for a built one, but the package of my Mainline parts was about 11 lbs ( approx 5 kg).
> 
> Hope this helps.




Thanks so much Kratos! Exactly what I needed. Didn't realize you had a mainline in the works. Look forward to reading your impressions!


----------



## Doc B.

If I may suggest, I think the Herbie's tenderfeet might be a little better choice. Actually microphony is not much of an issue with the Mainline, and isolation feet may not really be that important. But if you do decide to use them I have found that Sorbothane feet tend to flatten and get sticky even if you use the recommended size for a given weight. The herbies do just as good a job of isolation and don't squish out with time.


----------



## rated1975

loquah said:


> I would probably suggest the S.E.X. in that case as it conveys a larger sense of space and detail in the music, but not artificially so - just showing you what's there in a spacious way. A friend who's judgment I trust believes the S.E.X. + HD800 combo to be among the very best he's heard for classical recordings.
> 
> It's very important to get the C4S add-on for the S.E.X. as it makes a HUGE difference!!




There is overwhelming support, on this and the BH forum, for the crack and hd600/650 pairing. The OTL and high impedance cans seems to be a match made in heaven. My question is whether the S.E.X. does the same amount of justice ( or more ) to these cans. I ask this as the S.E.X. seems to be spoken more about its ability to drive lower impedance cans.


----------



## Doc B.

As it happens the Hd800s pair well with all of our amps. If budget is a concern, Crack is the best choice. Of course if budget is a concern what are you doing buying hd800s? 

For me the best sonic match for 800s is Mainline. S.E.X. Is designed to fall squarely in the middle between Crack and Mainline and will also run the broadest range of headphone types. So the best way to decide which amp to buy is to weigh your priorities.


----------



## olegausany

I still have moded SEX without C4S but still prefer it with stock HD800 (didn't try Annex moded yet) over CSP3 with beeswax capacitors upgrade installed


----------



## skeptic

doc b. said:


> If I may suggest, I think the Herbie's tenderfeet might be a little better choice. Actually microphony is not much of an issue with the Mainline, and isolation feet may not really be that important. But if you do decide to use them I have found that Sorbothane feet tend to flatten and get sticky even if you use the recommended size for a given weight. The herbies do just as good a job of isolation and don't squish out with time.




Thanks for the tip on the tenderfeet! They look like a solid product without the stain risk of sorbothane. But definitely a higher price bracket too. I had already ordered the sorbothane off Amazon, and at $2.50/foot (rather than $15/foot), plus prime shipping, it's hard to say no. 

In all candor, I only started looking at them because I misplaced my stock bump-ons and recently moved my mainline to a new desk that doesn't provide it with any ventilation. I haven't noticed any sort of microphonics, but buying a pack of bump-ons cost the same as the 4 pack of sorbothane 1" hemispheres.


----------



## atsq17

Off-topic: Anyone in Australia interested in buying a Mainline? I want to save $120.


----------



## rated1975

atsq17 said:


> Off-topic: Anyone in Australia interested in buying a Mainline? I want to save $120.




If you can convince Lachan to let me listen to his mainline then i might jump in with you 
Have you heard the mainline or are you taking a punt ?


----------



## atsq17

Maybe we can organize something   
  
 I heard the mainline before. 
  
 I find the HD800 + Crack to grate my eardrums. The treble is borderline bearable even with a good cable on the HD800 like a Norne Draug. I couldn't listen to it for more than 15-20 mins. 
  
 HD800 + Mainline is an entirely different story. The treble is extended but ridiculously smooth. Just sounds very nice and natural. 
  
 I have a T1 and it sounds amazing with the Crack but I am now curious as to how much better it will be with the Mainline. I've tried Lachlan's setup before and it sounded VERY good. The bass went lower than I remember the Crack doing and of course, silky smooth but detailed sound. I might have to try another time before taking the plunge but I had great memories of it. 
  
 What headphones do you have?


----------



## JamieMcC

atsq17 said:


> Maybe we can organize something
> 
> I heard the mainline before.
> 
> ...


 

 Is your Crack stock?


----------



## Loquah

rated1975 said:


> If you can convince Lachan to let me listen to his mainline then i might jump in with you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 We can definitely arrange something!


----------



## skeptic

atsq17 said:


> HD800 + Mainline is an entirely different story. The treble is extended but ridiculously smooth. Just sounds very nice and natural.


 
  
 Exactly how I hear it as well!  They are simply a wonderful combination, and I hope more and more members find opportunities to hear the pairing as time goes by.  
  
 Honestly, it makes me cringe a little every time I see the prolific "supremuses" in the hd800 thread throwing around their weight/post counts, recommending much more expensive hardware to newer members that doesn't sound nearly as good as the mainline.  I try to chime in from time to time to recommend the mainline as an excellent option, but I really don't want to cross that invisible line where the brand is potentially tarnished by perceived fanboyism.
  
 In any event, assuming you go forward with the purchase, I hope you find as much joy in listening to this amp as the rest of us mainline owners.  She's a keeper.  That's for damn sure.
  
 In the interim, I found the anax mod a great cure to any treble sensitivity issues I had when I was running my hd800's from my crack.  A nice warm sounding 12au7, like a bugleboy (or even a cheap nos tung sol), and a good 6080 or 6as7g also help.  I generally prefer 5998's with my crack but do find them slightly brighter than their lower mu / lower gain cousins.


----------



## atsq17

jamiemcc said:


> Is your Crack stock?


 
  
 Mundorf M-Caps and Stepped Attenuator with Dale Resistors. 
  
 I am quite treble sensitive though. The fact that I am happy with T1 is already amazing.     HD800 is a bridge too far on the Crack (mine anyway).


----------



## atsq17

Yeah, I haven't tried all that many tubes and I don't actually own a HD800. It's my colleagues. 
  
 I am using a Cleartop 12AU7 and Winged Svetlana.


----------



## Loquah

Don't forget that is also has upgraded electrolytics in the power supply, atsq17!


----------



## atsq17

Yeap that's right.    Cheers L. 
  
  
 BTW, would this work with the Crack? My friend wants one but don't think he wants to pay as much as we did. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-23-Step-Ladder-Type-Attenuator-Potentiometer-100K-Log-Stereo-/251607918706?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item3a95002872


----------



## Loquah

Looks fine. The resistors aren't as good as the Dale ones in yours / mine, but it is a suitable design - just hard to say if it will still offer a noticeable upgrade over the stock pot without trying to see...


----------



## JamieMcC

atsq17 said:


> Yeap that's right.    Cheers L.
> 
> 
> BTW, would this work with the Crack? My friend wants one but don't think he wants to pay as much as we did.
> ...


 

 I have one of those Valabs fitted in my Crack and have been very happy with it I thought it was a good value for the increase in performance it gave.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> I have one of those Valabs fitted in my Crack and have been very happy with it I thought it was a good value for the increase in performance it gave.


 
  
 Oh cool - that's great to know - thanks Jamie!!


----------



## JamieMcC

This is another version of the stepped attenuator I have seen fitted to a few Cracks. I couldn't find a dale one they are a little more expensive.
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260636624590?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## atsq17

Thanks Jamie. I'll get him to check those out.


----------



## rated1975

atsq17 said:


> Maybe we can organize something
> 
> I heard the mainline before.
> 
> ...


 

 I have LCD2.2 and K701's at the moment. I need something more balanced between the two.
 Oh, and i need a new amp since i sold my last amp.


----------



## atsq17

Feel free to try my T1 when we meet up. It's a great all-rounder. Works fantastically with the Mainline.


----------



## mcandmar

Here is the link to the Dale resistor attenuator, unfortunately they jumped up in price recently..
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Assembled-Dale-23-Step-Attenuator-Volume-Control-100k/270311271326?hash=item3eefceab9e


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Very nice review i enjoyed reading it, Thank You!
 I'am interested in The S.E.X.,I'am in the process of doing some research then it's time to order.


----------



## JamieMcC

Planning on making a start on my Sex amp soon, just been busy of late and little one is on school hols so the kitchen table is in demand for cake making painting etc. I will most probably take the kit into work and have some extended lunches breaks for the build.  
  
 In the mean time I have a new man toy to get to grips with.


----------



## Loquah

Nice toy, Jamie!!

i luvmusic 2, you're welcome. The Bottlehead amps are all brilliant. Go for it - you'll love it


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I just finished the CRACK not long ago and i'am hooked.....
 Does this mean i'am a CRACK addict?


----------



## Loquah

Either that or a true bottlehead!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I just finished the CRACK not long ago and i'am hooked.....
> Does this mean i'am a CRACK addict?


 
  
 Yes.  And there is no cure!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It must sound great with your 880's and 650's!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

bigfatpaulie said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I just finished the CRACK not long ago and i'am hooked.....
> ...


 
 Sure it does specially with the HD 650.It's too bad there is no cure for my CRACK addiction so i'll have S.E.X. instead.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Sure it does specially with the HD 650.It's too bad there is no cure for my CRACK addiction so i'll have S.E.X. instead.


 
  
 Better than having a Mainline addiction!!  HAHA!   ...   .. .     Wait...  That didn't work....
  
 Yeah, it's a great amp


----------



## i luvmusic 2

We are talking about amps right?Not being naughty.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I just purchased the S.E.X. i can't wait........


----------



## JamieMcC

Ok so my Sex build officially started today the base is all glued up and the top plate has received the same treatment as my Crack with a carbon veneer overlay. I'm looking forward to a leisurely and enjoyable build ahead.


----------



## Loquah

That's a great way to approach the S.E.X., Jamie


----------



## JamieMcC

I'm going to post this here while the bhf is offline.
  
 I have often wondered what happened to the wonderful naked Bottlehead girl?
  

  
 Well I have found her and it looks like she has been abducted by a rival company who produce solid state gear (cough cough) who would have thought Graham Slee would stoop to such things they must have been very worried about the Doc's marketing strategy! Perhaps he can confirm if this is his girl? 
  
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/sleesolomkiii_e.html
  

  
 P.S Doc if she has not been kidnapped but is on some sort of loaner program where do I register?


----------



## Doc B.

Not from us. I woulda used more bubble wrap.
  
 FWIW our site maintenance is pretty much complete and if you can't access it already you should be able to access the Bottlehead forum soon.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Bottlehead S.E.X. and HD 650 how do they pair? Thanks!


----------



## Loquah

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Bottlehead S.E.X. and HD 650 how do they pair? Thanks!


 
  
 Beautifully. The S.E.X. has a wider, more open presentation while the Crack has more smoothness and intimacy so it's all personal taste, but I like how the S.E.X. can lift the treble slightly in the HD650s and take away the "veil" that some people talk about (although I personally disagree with the term and just think of them as smooth)
  
 Check out my comparisons in the first few posts for more about the Crack versus S.E.X. presentations because that's really all it comes down to - personal taste in how your music is presented.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Bottlehead S.E.X. and HD 650 how do they pair? Thanks!
> ...


 
 Thank You!


----------



## i luvmusic 2




----------



## JamieMcC

Hi guys I'm hoping for some recommendations for a pair of good sealing closed back mid tier cans I have had the ATH W1000X and from a acoustic view point they are really very nice indeed the draw back for me was no matter how much I like the presentation the head wing band system they use just didn't work for me never feeling secure. 
  
 Any pointers appreciated, most probably pairing with the Sex but it would be nice if they would also be ok running out of the Crack 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Hi guys I'm hoping for some recommendations for a pair of good sealing closed back mid tier cans I have had the ATH W1000X and from a acoustic view point they are really very nice indeed the draw back for me was no matter how much I like the presentation the head wing band system they use just didn't work for me never feeling secure.
> 
> Any pointers appreciated, most probably pairing with the Sex but it would be nice if they would also be ok running out of the Crack
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 That's a tough one. I'd suggest the Mad Dogs or Alpha Dogs, but they're not going to play well with the Crack and neither will TH-600s. Not sure what else to suggest!?


----------



## jodgey4

Beyerdynamic T70?


----------



## JamieMcC

Yes the Beyer DT770 pro 250ohm version is at the top of the list at the moment having spent some time yesterday and  today researching on the forums and finding a number of Crack owners using them.  The DT770 can be found for £109 delivered new in the UK which is not to bad from a experimenting point of view and while perhaps not quiet the mid tier I had in mind what has got me intrigued is they are reported to respond very well to modifying with a good amount of how to information available. While I am loath to take apart and experiment with my Beyer T1's with the price point of the DT770's its not so intimidating.


----------



## jodgey4

There's an actual T70 too... That wasn't a typo for DT770 . It's 250 ohms as well.


----------



## JamieMcC

jodgey4 said:


> There's an actual T70 too... That wasn't a typo for DT770
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I did think it was a typo when I posted thanks


----------



## grausch

@JamieMcC: If you do get the DT 770s, do post how they compare to the T1s. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts.


----------



## JamieMcC

grausch said:


> @JamieMcC: If you do get the DT 770s, do post how they compare to the T1s. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts.


 

 Will do I ordered the DT770 today.


----------



## JamieMcC

A brief follow up on the DT770pro 250ohm and how they compared with the T1 using the Bottlehead Crack amp
  
 For £109 for a new pair of the net I have been pleasantly surprised as to the build and sonics of these closed back cans. Straight out of the box they sounded very treble accentuated and the bass was loose and bloomy.  After approximately 20hrs the treble has toned down considerably and the bass tightened up giving a more even presentation.
  
 The DT770 and T1 do share a similar beyer house sound but will come as no real surprise the T1 significantly outclasses them in abilities.
  
 These were the main differences with the T1 having,
  
 A more even presentation and a more present and believable midrange.
 A airier and more even handed presentation.
 A smoother treble extension.
 Much better resolution and separation (DT770 has some merging in its presentation.  The T1 can often clearly define backing singers as individuals with each singer given their own details ie a tambourine etc while with the DT770 the same singers tend to be more of a one).
 Tighter faster and more controlled bass (but not as much actual bass impact as the DT770 which is fun with funk).
 Much better sound staging.
  
 All in all I am pretty happy with the DT770 they have filled the roll I required of them quiet admirably they seal particularly well and while not as refined as the T1 I think offer pretty good value and are enjoyable to listen with preferring them to a pair of AKG Q 701 owned earlier in the year.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I just received a shipping notice from BH for my S.E.X. amp,I can't wait.........


----------



## Loquah

You'll love it!! Congrats!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> You'll love it!! Congrats!


 
 I waited for exactly one month today I'am looking forward to do another BH Kit,THANKS!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I would like to try a pair of  bookshelf speakers that i can use with my up coming S.E.X. amp any suggestions are welcome my budget is $200.THANK YOU!
  
 Is there any DIY KIT in my price range($200)?


----------



## SDBiotek

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I would like to try a pair of  bookshelf speakers that i can use with my up coming S.E.X. amp any suggestions are welcome my budget is $200.THANK YOU!
> 
> Is there any DIY KIT in my price range($200)?



Try www.Parts-express.com. which reminds me, I still have an older kit from years ago waiting to be finished...and a Crack kit for my headphones after that


----------



## mach2

If you can push your budget a bit I would think the Orca mini ($300) will make a wonderful system with your S.E.X. It's no DIY though.


----------



## Compassionator

If "diy" you mean that you can build your own cabinets, I would put the $200 in a pair of single "full range" drivers.  Markaudio or Fostex is a good start and the have drivers in all sizes.  I think that BH has a plan for the Fostex FE166e; "SEXy speakers."  Or Fostex FE103en in simple bass reflex.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

sdbiotek said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to try a pair of  bookshelf speakers that i can use with my up coming S.E.X. amp any suggestions are welcome my budget is $200.THANK YOU!
> ...


 
 I look at their sites and got confused there are soo many speakers to chose from
 THANKS!
  


mach2 said:


> If you can push your budget a bit I would think the Orca mini ($300) will make a wonderful system with your S.E.X. It's no DIY though.


 
 That one looks good,THANKS!
  


compassionator said:


> If "diy" you mean that you can build your own cabinets, I would put the $200 in a pair of single "full range" drivers.  Markaudio or Fostex is a good start and the have drivers in all sizes.  I think that BH has a plan for the Fostex FE166e; "SEXy speakers."  Or Fostex FE103en in simple bass reflex.


 
 This one i'am more interested ,yes i prefer building my own BOX.THANKS!


----------



## grausch

If you want to go DIY, you can also look at the Fonkens. http://frugal-phile.com/boxes-fostex.html
  
 However, the closest to the Orca Mini is the uFonkenWK and once you buy all the tools you need, you will be exceeding the price of the Orca Mini.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

grausch said:


> If you want to go DIY, you can also look at the Fonkens. http://frugal-phile.com/boxes-fostex.html
> 
> However, the closest to the Orca Mini is the uFonkenWK and once you buy all the tools you need, you will be exceeding the price of the Orca Mini.


 
 THANKS!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

It's here.......... finally i can have SEX


----------



## Loquah

The other day I posted this in the Crack thread at the request of one of the posters there:

  


> OK, so I've just tried the S.E.X. and Mainline with the LCD-2s (rev 2, Dec 2013) and am slightly wishing I hadn't...
> 
> My setup is Matrix X-Sabre feeding S.E.X. and Mainline in parallel using identical RCA cables (Tara Labs). The S.E.X. has been upgraded with Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold Oil output caps and some FT-3 Russian Teflons elsewhere in the chain. The Mainline has Auricaps running in what is essentially the position of an output cap and the same FT-3 russian teflons running in the power regulation circuit coupled to the 12AU7.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Today I swapped out the Mundorf Silver / Gold / Oil output caps and replaced them with Mundorf Supremes (poly caps) in 1.8uF instead of 1.5uF. I'm pleased to report that paired with the LCD 2s, the Mainline and S.E.X. are now more complimentary than being completely different. The Mainline's presentation has more weight (but is not at all slow) and is a little more intimate while the S.E.X. has picked up some speed at the expense of some weight. The presentation of the S.E.X. is now slightly more spacious and distant compared to the Mainline.
  
 I wouldn't say these caps are better than the S/G/Os because the S/G/Os are so lush and detailed through the mid-range, but it was just too much of a good thing when paired with LCD 2s (but great with HE-500s for example). If I only owned the S.E.X. I would probably have stuck with the S/G/Os to use with other cans like the T1s, but the Mainline has that covered so the S.E.X. had to return to the slightly brighter, more spacious presentation (but not quite as smooth) that suits the LCD 2s beautifully.
  
 Of course, this also means that there's a nice pair of very slightly used 1.5uF Mundorf S/G/Os in the for sale forums at a massively reduced price!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I finished my SEX amp without any glitch..........THANK GOD!


----------



## Armaegis

I too am relieved when I complete my sex making without any glitches...
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



the troubleshooting stage is always so awkward


----------



## Loquah

Lol.

Congratulations, i luvmusic 2!! What cans are you using it with?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> Lol.
> 
> Congratulations, i luvmusic 2!! What cans are you using it with?


 
 I'am using Q701, DT880 600 Ohms and HD 650.
 But if i plug-in the Q701 or ATH M35 without any music playing i can hear a slight HUM it's barely noticeable and not affected by the volume pot.
 I wired mine for 32 Ohms.
  
 I still need to finish the CASE for the SEX and CRACK,install the C4S and Imp.Switch for the SEX more work ahead of me. 
  
 THANKS!


----------



## Doc B.

For lower impedance headphones you can just rewire for a lower output tap. That will drop the noise floor considerably and you will still have plenty of range on the volume control. The 32 ohm tap is probably not really needed unless you have some exceptionally inefficient headphones.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

doc b. said:


> For lower impedance headphones you can just rewire for a lower output tap. That will drop the noise floor considerably and you will still have plenty of range on the volume control. The 32 ohm tap is probably not really needed unless you have some exceptionally inefficient headphones.


 
 I will try the lower tap after i install the impedance switch,If i plug-in the DT880 600 ohms i can't hear the slight hum.THANK YOU!


----------



## Loquah

Yeah, definitely drop to the lower taps. I run the LCD 2s with no problems on 8 ohm or 4 ohm (can't remember which one - whichever allows balanced operation - 8 ohm I think). Even on the lowest taps I am not going beyond 50-55% volume with planars


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> Yeah, definitely drop to the lower taps. I run the LCD 2s with no problems on 8 ohm or 4 ohm (can't remember which one - whichever allows balanced operation - 8 ohm I think). Even on the lowest taps I am not going beyond 50-55% volume with planars


 
 THANKS!I will try that after i install the Imp. switch.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I installed the Imp. switch  last night then put the switch into 4 ohms tap the amp gets very quiet no more slight HUM.I tried 4 and 8 ohms taps they are both quiet but i prefer 8 ohms tap to my ears it have little more bass than the 4 ohms tap.
  Installed the C4S this morning and fired up the amp to my surprised everything sounded really good everything opens up.


----------



## mcandmar

Great to see another S.E.X. amp being born, congrats!
  
 I found the 4ohm tap is perfect for low impedance cans ~32-64 ohms, for high impedance cans like the 300ohm HD650's i prefer the 8ohm tap for the reasons you described, 4ohm just sounds a bit too thin.


----------



## JamieMcC

mcandmar said:


> I found the 4ohm tap is perfect for low impedance cans ~32-64 ohms, for high impedance cans like the 300ohm HD650's i prefer the 8ohm tap for the reasons you described, 4ohm just sounds a bit too thin.


 
  
 I am pleased about that as have just wired my Sex up for 8ohm as well


----------



## mcandmar

jamiemcc said:


> I am pleased about that as have just wired my Sex up for 8ohm as well


 
  
 Speaking of S.E.X. amps being born, when is the big reveal happening?


----------



## JamieMcC

mcandmar said:


> Speaking of S.E.X. amps being born, when is the big reveal happening?


 
  
 Plate chokes and transformers have gone in today progress on the hook up is planned for tomorrow. Will take a pic later. Building stock to start with (save for the pot) then once up and running planning on implementing a few of the mods you have listed in your bhf thread


----------



## JamieMcC

Here you go build progress to date.


----------



## Loquah

Nice!!

Did you source your own attenuators or is it an option from Bottlehead now?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Looking good, Jamie!


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Nice!!
> 
> Did you source your own attenuators or is it an option from Bottlehead now?


 
  
 The attenuator is the A5 stereo, 35 stepper from Glassware Audio, I have mine configured with  -1dB and -6dB fine and coarse adjustments  -2dB and -12dB is also available.
  
  http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/atandsise.html
  
 They can supply resistors but I opted to source some Vishay Dale RN55 low noise, mil spec resistors from Mouser for the Sex's attenuator. Its a nice bit of kit and the fine adjustment really is nice to have after the Valab but it does take up a fair bit of real estate at the front of the amp. It was a tight squeeze in the Sex the headphone socket needed relocating outward a further 10mm to get it to fit and the overlay now covers the original hole.


----------



## JamieMcC

jamiemcc said:


> The attenuator is the A5 stereo, 35 stepper from Glassware Audio, I have mine configured with  -1dB and -6dB fine and coarse adjustments  -2dB and -12dB is also available.
> 
> http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/atandsise.html
> 
> They can supply resistors but I opted to source some Vishay Dale RN55 low noise, mil spec resistors from Mouser for the Sex's attenuator. Its a nice bit of kit and the fine adjustment really is nice to have after the Valab but it does take up a fair bit of real estate at the front of the amp. It was a tight squeeze in the Sex the headphone socket needed relocating outward a further 10mm to get it to fit and the overlay now covers the original hole.


 
  


bigfatpaulie said:


> Looking good, Jamie!


 
  
 Cheers, its been good not feeling the need to rush this one, its just been slowly moving forward as and when!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Cheers, its been good not feeling the need to rush this one, its just been slowly moving forward as and when!


 
  
 I've been toying with getting a Mainline just for that reason.  When you and I built our Cracks I think we both were in need of an amp.  Things are different now


----------



## JamieMcC

All up and running now cheers Sex buddies


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> All up and running now cheers Sex buddies


 
  
 Cheers to that!!  Nice job!


----------



## Loquah

Beautiful work as always, Jamie!
  
 I'm looking forward to your impressions as a seasoned Crack owner


----------



## skeptic

Looks amazing Jamie! Love the CF on the transformers.


----------



## JamieMcC

The C4S doesn't take long to install and is pretty quick and easy compared to the Speedball in the Crack.
  
 I have been pondering over output cap options and while I have a few to hand whilst going through them most have a lower voltage than the is required for the Sex, but I did find amongst them a pair of Jantzen Superior Z-Caps with a 800v rating, one of the very first caps I had tried bypassing with in the Crack and could not resist soldering them in.
  I wasn't very fond of them in the Crack but they work a treat fitted in the Sex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  

  
  
  


skeptic said:


> Looks amazing Jamie! Love the CF on the transformers.


 
  
 I cheated on the transformers and used some vinyl wrap! The top plate has a real carbon fibre veneer to it and when I have some more carbon offcuts I will cut a few strips and replace the vinyl with the real thing. I have a job coming up that will require quiet a bit of carbon fibre work and am bound to have a few offcuts  
  
  


loquah said:


> Beautiful work as always, Jamie!
> 
> I'm looking forward to your impressions as a seasoned Crack owner


 
  
  
 Going to give it some burn in time first. But for starters I will say the presentation feels cleaner but a little cooler than the Crack, one of the things that has stood out so far is the increase in the resolution with the Sex the detail and texturing is very nice..


----------



## Loquah

So, by the look of it, have you bypassed the stock output caps, Jamie?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jamiemcc said:


> All up and running now cheers Sex buddies


 
 I really like the  look of the top plate and the choke Very nice.........


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> So, by the look of it, have you bypassed the stock output caps, Jamie?


 
  
 Lachlan your spot on, I will take a look at some options for replacing the stock caps later on but quiet happy with how the Sex is shaping up for the time being.
  
  


i luvmusic 2 said:


> I really like the  look of the top plate and the choke Very nice.........


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Lachlan your spot on, I will take a look at some options for replacing the stock caps later on but quiet happy with how the Sex is shaping up for the time being.


 
  
 FWIW I am loving the Mundorf Supreme polyprops and the Auricaps in my Mainline are sublime!
  
 Unfortunately I can't compare the Supremes to the stock Dayton caps as I went from Mundorf Silver / Gold / Oil to the Supremes to get a bit less lushness to pair with the already lush LCD 2s. The S/G/Os were awesome though


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> FWIW I am loving the Mundorf Supreme polyprops and the Auricaps in my Mainline are sublime!
> 
> Unfortunately I can't compare the Supremes to the stock Dayton caps as I went from Mundorf Silver / Gold / Oil to the Supremes to get a bit less lushness to pair with the already lush LCD 2s. The S/G/Os were awesome though


 
  
 With the Crack after rolling quiet a few different types of constructed capacitors and bypass combinations my preference has been for the in oil type capacitors with a Teflon bypass. I have a feeling they will complement the Sex's leaner presentation adding a little body and a improved sense of presence over the stock polyprops. 
  
 The copper foils are getting some good feed back and I have yet to try one so curious about them also.
  
 Pondering the imponderable


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> With the Crack after rolling quiet a few different types of constructed capacitors and bypass combinations my preference has been for the in oil type capacitors with a Teflon bypass. I have a feeling they will complement the Sex's leaner presentation adding a little body and a improved sense of presence over the stock polyprops.
> 
> The copper foils are getting some good feed back and I have yet to try one so curious about them also.
> 
> Pondering the imponderable


 
  
 Bugger. Now you have me contemplating a return to the S/G/Os (which I was selling) with the addition of some teflons.
  
 Just to confirm, is the rule for bypassing 10% or 1% of the main cap's capacitance?


----------



## jodgey4

Has anybody here used the SEX amp with any Audeze models with Fazor tech (higher sensitivity)?


----------



## Loquah

Not me unfortunately - mine are pre-fazor (just)


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Just to confirm, is the rule for bypassing 10% or 1% of the main cap's capacitance?


 
  
 1% seems to be the bandied ratio, going lower worked on the Crack with 0.056 used for bypassing the 100uf's to good effectz


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> 1% seems to be the bandied ratio, going lower worked on the Crack with 0.056 used for bypassing the 100uf's to good effectz


 
  
 Cool. Thanks. Do you think the FT-3 teflons would be good enough in that role or should I spend $60-70 on some Auri-Teflons?


----------



## JamieMcC

I would give the FT3 a try first just to see what effect they may have they could just as easily not make any difference.


----------



## Loquah

True. I guess for the price it's hard to go wrong


----------



## adamaley

Hi guys. I have scoured this thread but haven't found much information of the Mainline being paired with the Audeze LCD-3. Can anyone provide feedback based on experience with this combo?


----------



## jodgey4

Most feel that planars like the LCD-3 benefit from the higher power the SEX can provide from what I understand... which is kinda why I asked about pairing Bottlehead amps with Fazor'd Audeze products. They're more efficient, making this less of an issue... which could put the Mainline handily on top!


----------



## Loquah

I can only comment on the Mainline with LCD 2 and it sounds fantastic. The LCD 3 is easier to drive than the LCD 2 isn't it? If so then the Mainline would be a great match for the LCD 3s.
  
 With LCD 2s, the Mainline is running at about 85-90% volume for good listening levels (by my standards and I'm not a loud listener - probably around 80-85dB max). As for the sound quality, the description in my review at the beginning of this thread should give a sense of the qualities you can expect from the Mainline.


----------



## adamaley

Thanks Loquah, That's good insight. Hopefully someone can chime in with some experience with the pairing.


----------



## JamieMcC

Just noticed the other day Audeze plan on launching a 1200ohm planar.


----------



## Loquah

Yes. A Crack potential perhaps??


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I tried using 6SN7 on the SEX it does work and sound nice,To me it sound more relaxing than the 6DN7.


----------



## Loquah

I seem to remember reading that it wasn't ideal due to a significant difference in its physical construction


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I've been running it now for half hour so far so good no issue yet.I will continue to run these tube for a little longer and see what will happen.


----------



## Utopia

loquah said:


> Yes. A Crack potential perhaps??


 
  
 That would be great!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I run the SEX with 6SN7 for 6 hrs so far no issue.


----------



## Loquah

Interesting. I saw the discussion on the Bottlehead forum - seems the only issue is burning through tubes faster


----------



## Doc B.

loquah said:


> Interesting. I saw the discussion on the Bottlehead forum - seems the only issue is burning through tubes faster


 
 Yeah, aside from too high a plate impedance for the output transformer and the potential for overheating the plate it's perfect. The only thing better would be a tube that was like a 6SN7 but optimized for the job.
  
 Maybe like a 6DN7?


----------



## Loquah

LOL. Designed that way for a reason, eh?


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

I guess this is the appropriate thread to post these pics


----------



## Armaegis

Wow, that's quite an impressive setup. Are those Blumensteins as well?


----------



## Loquah

Does this mean you got a Mainline or is it just visiting?


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

armaegis said:


> Wow, that's quite an impressive setup. Are those Blumensteins as well?


 
 Yes, they are, Armaegis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


loquah said:


> Does this mean you got a Mainline or is it just visiting?


 
 Hahaha, you got me, Loquah!


----------



## Loquah

Hey, Aeolus, can you do me a favour and compare your T1s and HD800s with the Mainline? I'm still on the fence about buying HD800s (leaning towards a yes) and am curious about the specific pairing with Mainline (compared to the T1 pairing)


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

loquah said:


> Hey, Aeolus, can you do me a favour and compare your T1s and HD800s with the Mainline? I'm still on the fence about buying HD800s (leaning towards a yes) and am curious about the specific pairing with Mainline (compared to the T1 pairing)


 
 Hi Loquah,
  
 I did spend nearly an hour writing a pretty long comparison for you, but for some nonsense reasons with my Google Chrome, I've lost it! So I'll try to recall and make it straight to the point this time, hopefully you'll find it useful.
  
 Please do keep in mind that my T1 is not a 'normal' one, it's a 'Loquah's cube modded' T1, so the thoughts I post below are based on my modded T1 and my stock HD800.
  
 The first thing I noticed was that the HD800 was slightly more transparent and had a larger sound stage whereas the T1 was warmer and fuller. Mainline is a very neutral and transparent headamp, so basically all the sonic sound signature of the headphones will be remained the same when played with it.
  
 Bass: the HD800 was tighter but I've sometimes wanted a bit more impact; the T1 was somehow looser but fuller.
 Mids: this is where the T1 shines. The HD800 was a tad lifeless, cooler and thinner compared to the warmer, smoother mids of the T1
 Treble: interestingly, the treble was supposed to be a bit 'harsh' and 'fatiguing' on the T1 (due to the 9-10Khz peaky treble), but thanks to your mod, the treble of the T1 was now nearly as good as the HD800, though I feel the HD800's treble was still more 'complete' for me. I guess the differences will be more significant between a stock T1 and a HD800.
  
 So I think it really depends on what your expect in your next purchase. I personally tend to use the HD800 whenever I need some critical listening (classical, new age... ) and the T1 when I just want to sit back, relax and enjoy my favorite music - which is mostly vocals, jazz and acoustic. I strongly recommend you get a HD800 if you can afford it, the HD800 will be a wonderful implementation of the T1 and it will complete your headphone rig, at least for dynamic driver headphones. Get one and you will be good to go for a very long long time. I'm just more than happy owning both of them and they make me no longer seek for ANY other headphones.
  
 Again, I'm sorry for this much shorter comparison, I already put all my 'ideas' into my first one, unfortunately, I've lost it! Arggggh
  
 Hope this helps!


----------



## Loquah

It's perfect! Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Sounds like there's definitely a pair of HD800s in my future for the Mainline.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Installed a 4 Pin XLR socket on my SEX amp and while i'm at it i replaced the 22uf caps with a SOLEN 22uf 630V caps.


----------



## Loquah

Nice work. Any impressions on the new sound?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I screwed up this resistor,Is it safe to run it like this for now while i'am waiting for the replacement?THANKS!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

It's official!  I have a Mainline on order!
  
 Three weeks to ship.  I can't wait to be building again!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I noticed some clarity and deeper bass the SEX respond quiet nicely with this SOLEN 22uf 630V Caps  not a huge difference but it is noticeable.


----------



## Loquah

bigfatpaulie said:


> It's official!  I have a Mainline on order!
> 
> Three weeks to ship.  I can't wait to be building again!


 
  
 Awesome!! Congratulations!!!


----------



## Doc B.

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I screwed up this resistor,Is it safe to run it like this for now while i'am waiting for the replacement?THANKS!


 
 It could affect the heat dissipation in a negative way. Best to replace it.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

doc b. said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I screwed up this resistor,Is it safe to run it like this for now while i'am waiting for the replacement?THANKS!
> ...


 
 THANK YOU!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

loquah said:


> Awesome!! Congratulations!!!


 
  
 Thanks!  I am very much looking forward to it.  
  
 When I called to order I spoke to the Queen for a little bit.  We were talking about different voltage options and I guess Doc was standing next to her and had some input.  Anyway, long story short all of a sudden I was on the phone with a Legend!  HA!
  
 He was, as expected, a perfect gentleman.


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> It's official!  I have a Mainline on order!
> 
> Three weeks to ship.  I can't wait to be building again!


 
  
 Whoo hoo    
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





       congrats, I am jealous already. I had better start saving my pennies!   
  
 Going to have to satisfy myself on the building front with some speaker enclosures for the Fostex FX120's drivers I picked up earlier in the year . Hopefully I will make a start before the years out as the Sex is proving to be very engaging with my old bookshelf speakers and find the time I spend listening to the Sex via the speakers on the increase. Hopefully the Fostex FX120 full range drivers will make a further improvement.
  
 On the Sex front I have added a couple of FT-3 0,1uF teflons in place of the stock caps and am also really pleased with how the Jantzen bypasses are working out however its still very tempting to try something a little more boutique 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Quote:


i luvmusic 2 said:


> I noticed some clarity and deeper bass the SEX respond quiet nicely with this SOLEN 22uf 630V Caps  not a huge difference but it is noticeable.


 
  
 Interesting room is tight on my Sex at the front with the attenuators pcb board taking up plenty of real estate but I might see if I can mount them on the bracket I need to make for adding the chokes and might be able squeeze them some in.


----------



## adamaley

bigfatpaulie said:


> It's official!  I have a Mainline on order!
> 
> Three weeks to ship.  I can't wait to be building again!


 
 Once your Mainline is up and running, I'd love some feedback on how the LCD-3 pairs with it vs. with the DNA Stratus.


----------



## Loquah

Speaking of caps and S.E.X. you might remember I installed some Mundorf Supreme poly caps instead of the Silver / Gold / Oils recently, but I'm now missing the magic of the SGOs so I'm thinking it might be time to reinstall the SGOs with a teflon bypass. My only problem is finding a 600V 0.01uF teflon other than the Auri-Teflons which are like buying a whole other set of the SGOs


----------



## mcandmar

loquah said:


> My only problem is finding a 600V 0.01uF teflon other than the Auri-Teflons which are like buying a whole other set of the SGOs


 
  
 Easy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-01uF-1000V-5-AUDIO-teflon-capacitors-K72P-6-Lot-of-1pcs-/261249464197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd3ae7785


----------



## Loquah

Ordered. You're a legend, Mark - thank you!!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

For some reason i can't find the right bypass caps value for my CRACK,I tried 0.01uf,0.56uf  and 1uf for the 0.01 and 0.56uf sound very harsh/fatiguing  1uf tho is not bad but still warm to my liking.


----------



## Loquah

i luvmusic 2 said:


> For some reason i can't find the right bypass caps value for my CRACK,I tried 0.01uf,0.56uf  and 1uf for the 0.01 and 0.56uf sound very harsh/fatiguing  1uf tho is not bad but still warm to my liking.


 
  
 Normal rule is about 1% of the main cap value. What types of caps are you using as the bypass? Teflon, poly, etc?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > For some reason i can't find the right bypass caps value for my CRACK,I tried 0.01uf,0.56uf  and 1uf for the 0.01 and 0.56uf sound very harsh/fatiguing  1uf tho is not bad but still warm to my liking.
> ...


 
 I used SOLEN poly to find the value but it's not working for me.I will try 1.5uf to 2.5uf and see(this will be  a bit over 1%).


----------



## Loquah

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I used SOLEN poly to find the value but it's not working for me.I will try 1.5uf to 2.5uf and see(this will be  a bit over 1%).


 
  
 Roughly 10% is fine, but make sure you allow ample time for burn-in of the caps.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I used SOLEN poly to find the value but it's not working for me.I will try 1.5uf to 2.5uf and see(this will be  a bit over 1%).
> ...


 
 OK Thank You!
 I usually used them for a week then on to the next caps that is why i give up.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I have better result changing caps on SEX than the CRACK.


----------



## Loquah

i luvmusic 2 said:


> OK Thank You!
> I usually used them for a week then on to the next caps that is why i give up.


 
  
 If you do a search on the Bottlehead forum there is some discussion about how to make a burn-in rig for your caps so you can pre-burn them. Basically is involves connecting your capacitors to a source along with a load (resistor) and letting it run for a while. Harshness is a common trait of caps before they're burned in


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > OK Thank You!
> ...


 
 Thanks! i will try that.


----------



## JamieMcC

Many of the caps I've tried have require around 50-100 hrs the exception being the Teflons where 200-500hrs is more the norm.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Whoo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha!  It's okay, Jamie.  We will always have the Crack together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.   Plus, if you had a Mainline, I certainly could not keep up with you!
  


adamaley said:


> Once your Mainline is up and running, I'd love some feedback on how the LCD-3 pairs with it vs. with the DNA Stratus.


 
  
 I plan to contrast the Mainline with the Stratus and the Dynahi with HD800's LCD3 and Code-X HE5's.  I don't need a Mainline, but curiosity got the best of me.  I am really interested to see just how good it really is.  I haven't seen many comparisons of it vs other amps.  I know before I went for the Stratus, the Mainline was a big contender: did I make the right decision?  Especially considering the cost (the Stratus with tubes is pushing $4000).  Only time will tell.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

bigfatpaulie said:


> I plan to contrast the Mainline with the Stratus and the Dynahi with HD800's LCD3 and Code-X HE5's.  I don't need a Mainline, but curiosity got the best of me.  I am really interested to see just how good it really is.  I haven't seen many comparisons of it vs other amps.  I know before I went for the Stratus, the Mainline was a big contender: did I make the right decision?  Especially considering the cost (the Stratus with tubes is pushing $4000).  Only time will tell.


 
 Please share your thoughts on how the Mainline competes with the Dynahi and DNA. It's gonna be an epic comparison!


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

i luvmusic 2 said:


> For some reason i can't find the right bypass caps value for my CRACK,I tried 0.01uf,0.56uf  and 1uf for the 0.01 and 0.56uf sound very harsh/fatiguing  1uf tho is not bad but still warm to my liking.


 
 I'm using these caps for bypassing with great result for my Crack. My output caps are the 100uF ERSE Pulse-X caps.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-056uF-500V-5-AUDIO-teflon-capacitors-K72P-6-Lot-of-2pcs-/261249457353?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd3ae5cc9


----------



## JamieMcC

aeolus kratos said:


> I'm using these caps for bypassing with great result for my Crack. My output caps are the 100uF ERSE Pulse-X caps.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-056uF-500V-5-AUDIO-teflon-capacitors-K72P-6-Lot-of-2pcs-/261249457353?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd3ae5cc9


 

 Those worked well with my JFX also.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jamiemcc said:


> Many of the caps I've tried have require around 50-100 hrs the exception being the Teflons where 200-500hrs is more the norm.


 
 I didn't know they need a long burn-in THANKS!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

aeolus kratos said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > For some reason i can't find the right bypass caps value for my CRACK,I tried 0.01uf,0.56uf  and 1uf for the 0.01 and 0.56uf sound very harsh/fatiguing  1uf tho is not bad but still warm to my liking.
> ...


 
 THANK YOU!


----------



## JamieMcC

Lachlan, I have been having a reread of your Sex amp review and found myself nodding along in agreement whilst reading you really did a superb job of nailing down the essence of the Sex amp and comparisons of it with the Crack.
  
 When listened to the Crack again recently for the first time for a couple of weeks the differences where much more noticeable now than when I initially tried switching between the two after building the Sex. The Crack really needed the 5998 or GEC to stand any chance of holding its own and with a standard RCA 6080 the Crack felt considerably slower and more recessed in comparison.
  
 I also found my Crack to have a touch more intimate presentation with the mid range slightly more present and commutative in its ability to conveying fragility or emotion in vocal tracks with the GEC 6as7g working its magic.
  
 After a surprise auction win on ebay I have some Ampohm Paper-in-Wax Tin Foils are on their way, I put a silly bid in and won over £100 worth of new caps for £17 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Not having tried any Ampohm's or Paper in Wax type before but after reading good things about them I looking forward to giving them a try out as coupling caps in the Sex, that is if I can get them to fit in!


----------



## Loquah

Thank you, Jamie - that's nice to read.

Should we be expecting a Franken-SEX situation here? How big are the caps?

Looking forward to reading your impressions.

On the topic of caps, I'll be reinstalling the Silver/Gold/Oils ready for some teflon bypassing soon.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

WOW!this SEX is really working well with the 0.1uf Solen poly cap i can hear more details and smother treble.I can't wait for next week to pick up a pair of 0.1uf Mundorf Supreme caps.


----------



## Loquah

i luvmusic 2 said:


> WOW!this SEX is really working well with the 0.1uf Solen poly cap i can hear more details and smother treble.I can't wait for next week to pick up a pair of 0.1uf Mundorf Supreme caps.


 
  
 I might have a pair available soon. PM me if you're interested


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > WOW!this SEX is really working well with the 0.1uf Solen poly cap i can hear more details and smother treble.I can't wait for next week to pick up a pair of 0.1uf Mundorf Supreme caps.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the offer,I will pick it up at Parts connex..n some time next week they are closed for the weekend.THANK YOU!


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Thank you, Jamie - that's nice to read.
> 
> Should we be expecting a Franken-SEX situation here? How big are the caps?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll post a pic when they arrive.
  
 I was very tempted by those Silver/Gold /Oils of yours so kind of pleased you are putting them back in now.


----------



## Loquah

I just finished reinstalling the S/G/Os and can't believe I went away from them. Perhaps that's sometimes the danger of comparisons - yes, my Mainline is more transparent and detailed, but my attempts to extract detail from the S.E.X. took aways it's silky mid-range magic that I deliberately modified it for. I think adding those teflon bypasses to the S/G/Os should be just perfect!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

So i made a little space for the new 0.1uf,1.5uf caps and possibly a Choke,Drilled a hole on the C4S board and moved it back.
 I listened for any Hum/noise that the C4S might pickup due to it's new location and i did not heard any noise/hum.
 Now it's time to decide which cap i need to get too many to choose from..


----------



## JamieMcC

A Care package arrived today containing some Ampohm Paper-in-Wax Tin Foil and Ampohm paper-in-wax alum foil caps for the Sex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I was very relived they turned out be smaller than I had imagined so as soon as I was home from work it was out with the soldering iron and in they went.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jamiemcc said:


> A Care package arrived today containing some Ampohm Paper-in-Wax Tin Foil and Ampohm paper-in-wax alum foil caps for the Sex
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice!
 So how does it sound?


----------



## JamieMcC

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Very nice!
> So how does it sound?


 
  
 Well its early days and so far the caps only have about 26 hours of burning in as I left the Sex playing overnight and all or today whilst out at work. So far its all good the Ampohm's have a clean and open sound about them. Tone and vocals have continue to improve from yesterday and at the moment for me are just plain stop you in your tracks gorgeous. This was the area which I was really hoping for a touch of magic and the Ampohm's have definitely delivered on that front. Now the question is how long am I going to be able to resist  fitting  the Teflon bypasses which arrived yesterday as well!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jamiemcc said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice!
> ...


 
 THANK YOU Jamie!
 I bet you you can't resist,Those Teflon Caps will be installed very soon...........


----------



## Loquah

Here are some preliminary pics, @i luvmusic 2
  

  

  
 My teflon caps are attached to the chokes (see review pics on first page) and I'll add some pics of the bypass caps here once they're done.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

loquah said:


> Here are some preliminary pics, @i luvmusic 2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 WOW! THANK YOU!
 That gives me idea on how to put mine in,Mine is a mess.
 The pic bellow that is where my C4S board problem begun i pushed down the 0.1uf cap by accident without realizing it's touching the resistor connected to T16 and T20 it shorted and fried the C4S "B" side and YES it is my FAULT i installed them with a lot of slack i should have sleeved them thought about it while i was working on it but got lazy doing it..........OUTCH!That is the reason why i want to redo those resistors and this time i will be sleeving all the exposed wires.


----------



## Loquah

Ah, yes. Very important to insulate anything that might move or touch - a good tip for future builders!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Yup!saw them been done from the other builders i thought about doing it but got so excited and rush to finished.That's what i got from being lazy and careless(shorted and fried the C4S).


----------



## Loquah

I received some lovely Russian teflon capacitative goodness today! They're smaller than I expected, thankfully...
  

  
 Here's the install using some short fly leads (teflon insulated solid hook-up wire from the Mainline kit) and hot melt glue to secure them in place
  

  

  

  
 Early impressions of the sound (teflons bypassing Mundorf Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil) are exceedingly positive despite possibly a little bit of early grain in the treble from the teflons. The richness and clarity of the Mundorfs is still very present in the mids and bass, but the treble has more sparkle and texture now which is really bringing the LCD 2s to life


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> I received some lovely Russian teflon capacitative goodness today! They're smaller than I expected, thankfully...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Snap, I do like the effect adding the Teflon brings it works a treat paired with the Ampohms
  
 I might switch to fly leads later. I have some more tinkering to do but am enjoying listening to much to spend  any more time on hot rodding at the moment.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Snap, I do like the effect adding the Teflon brings it works a treat paired with the Ampohms
> 
> I might switch to fly leads later. I have some more tinkering to do but am enjoying listening to much to spend  any more time on hot rodding at the moment.


 
  
 I say 'fly leads' but my install is basically the same as yours only with slightly longer hook-up wires. I toyed with using alligator clips or some other kinds of easily removable option, but I was too eager to just hear them!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

What would i do without SEX(sigh)?


----------



## flying baboon

Loquah, thank you for this topic. Now I'm a fan of Bottlehead's products... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've built a SEX for my father, for his HE500, Mundorf Supreme are the best choice for this amp? Aren't they too much warm ?


----------



## Loquah

flying baboon said:


> Loquah, thank you for this topic. Now I'm a fan of Bottlehead's products...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Baboon, I'm glad you've become a fan of this great product! Your father is very lucky to have his own pre-built S.E.X. from you!
  
 There are multiple Mundorf Supremes. I have tried the Mundorf MCap Supremes which are a polypropylene cap and they're quite neutral, but perhaps not as good as the slightly more expensive Auricap polypropylene I used on my Mainline. Otherwise the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil is what I have in my S.E.X. and it is quite warm on its own - perhaps too warm, but does wonders when paired with a $5 Russian 0.01uF Teflon cap. The Teflons have really brought the very best out of the S/G/Os and the S.E.X. sounds amazing now - so much so that I am contemplating loading up the Mainline with the same cap combo now.
  
 The oil caps are more expensive than the poly caps, but they do sound better to my ears, especially when bypassed with Teflon cap. There are many oil caps out there, some of which are more expensive than the Mundorf, but apparently also perform better. Another option if you don't want to spend quite as much and also avoid bypassing would be the Mundorf Supreme Silver / Oil (no gold) which isn't as thick and warm sounding as the S/G/Os


----------



## flying baboon

Thank you for your answer, I will do some research about those Teflon caps (also for my Mainline 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) !


----------



## mcandmar

I'm using with Silver/Oil in mine with HE-500's and wouldn't consider it overly warm sounding at all.  If anything the 500's could do with a bit of added warmth.


----------



## flying baboon

OK thank you, I will try SIlver/Oil with the teflon caps. The SEX will stay versatile if they are less warm than the Silver/Gold/Oil.


----------



## JamieMcC

Has anyone here tried Meridian Explorer USB DAC? I see its being heavily discounted on amazon now down from  £249 to £149 due to the new model  coming out. Thinking perhaps for the second system.


----------



## adamaley

Fellas, I am in dire need of some solid, quick, well-informed advice, and my question is two-fold. Firstly, I am looking to acquire a Bottlehead S.E.X amp, but really need to know anyone's experience with it driving the Audeze LCD-3. I understand that an informed guess will suggest that it should be able to. There are many accounts of it driving the LCD-2.2s with aplomb, which is a healthy sign. I plan on using this combo until after CanJam, after which I will look to upgrade amp-wise.
  
 Which leads to the second part of my question. After I acquire an upgrade amp, I'll ultimately be looking to use the S.E.X with either the Paradox Slants/Alpha primes (or one of the closed non-TOTL planars). I believe theses should be easier to drive than the LCD-3s, but please feel free to chime in.
  
 NB- I'll be looking to get the fully upgraded amp @ Version 2.1 w/ C4S & Impedance Switch
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## flying baboon

adamaley said:


> Fellas, I am in dire need of some solid, quick, well-informed advice, and my question is two-fold. Firstly, I am looking to acquire a Bottlehead S.E.X amp, but really need to know anyone's experience with it driving the Audeze LCD-3. I understand that an informed guess will suggest that it should be able to. There are many accounts of it driving the LCD-2.2s with aplomb, which is a healthy sign. I plan on using this combo until after CanJam, after which I will look to upgrade amp-wise.
> 
> Which leads to the second part of my question. After I acquire an upgrade amp, I'll ultimately be looking to use the S.E.X with either the Paradox Slants/Alpha primes (or one of the closed non-TOTL planars). I believe theses should be easier to drive than the LCD-3s, but please feel free to chime in.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I can't help you for your second question but I have a LCD-3. I couldn't hear it for a long time with the SEX but the SEX drove it very well (especially with the C4S upgrade), so does the Mainline.


----------



## Loquah

Yes and you'll be fine with the Primes or similar too. The S.E.X. has enough grunt to drive any of the Audeze cans or Fostex-based cans with no troubles at all.


----------



## adamaley

Thanks for the responses, guys. I failed to specify that I have the LCD-3 Classics which I believe are less sensitive and have a lower impedance.


----------



## Loquah

You'll still be fine I believe. The LCD 3s were released after original LCD 2s so all LCD 3 models should be at least as sensitive as early LCD 2s I believe and they're fine with the S.E.X.


----------



## flying baboon

According to DocB, the SEX can drive a HE6 so the LCD3 isn't really a problem


----------



## jbarnhardt

Loquah - 
  
 Thank you so much for the incredibly comprehensive reviews/comparisons of these amps. Do you think the Mainline would be a reasonably good pairing with the Alpha Primes? I saw your comment on the S.E.X. being a capable amp with various planars and am trying to determine whether the Mainline has the juice to drive these effectively as well. The Bottlehead site indicates that it will work well with headphones with "normal power requirements". Alpha Primes claim 90dB efficiency and I believe are about 50ohm impedance so it seems likely they'd be fine, but I'd hate to be underwhelmed if the Mainline doesn't have enough power for these cans. Thanks for any opinions you can offer. And my apologies if this question has been asked/answered before - I've not made it through the entire thread yet.
  
 -John


----------



## olegausany

I had no chance to hear Prime with either Mainline or SEX but I heard Alpha Dogs with SEX and Prime with high end amps such Crimson and upcoming LIO and they sounded really great so I would skip SEX to get best results


----------



## Loquah

jbarnhardt said:


> Loquah -
> 
> Thank you so much for the incredibly comprehensive reviews/comparisons of these amps. Do you think the Mainline would be a reasonably good pairing with the Alpha Primes? I saw your comment on the S.E.X. being a capable amp with various planars and am trying to determine whether the Mainline has the juice to drive these effectively as well. The Bottlehead site indicates that it will work well with headphones with "normal power requirements". Alpha Primes claim 90dB efficiency and I believe are about 50ohm impedance so it seems likely they'd be fine, but I'd hate to be underwhelmed if the Mainline doesn't have enough power for these cans. Thanks for any opinions you can offer. And my apologies if this question has been asked/answered before - I've not made it through the entire thread yet.
> 
> -John


 
  
 Thanks, Jon. I'm glad they are helpful! I can happily run my LCD-2s from the Mainline (close to full volume, but still about 9 steps of headroom left) so you should be fine with the Alphas, and like olegausany said, the Mainline will bring that last little bit of refinement and quality to the sound so I'd go that way if I had the choice of either.
  


olegausany said:


> I had no chance to hear Prime with either Mainline or SEX but I heard Alpha Dogs with SEX and Prime with high end amps such Crimson and upcoming LIO and they sounded really great so I would skip SEX to get best results


----------



## adamaley

While there is some traffic here on this thread, I have a question to pose to those familiar with the Bottlehead S.E.X amp. I just received a pre-built one in the mail, and I had some questions regarding the impedance switch. Looking at the picture below:
  

  
 Can someone tell me whether the switch in the foreground to the right needs to match the corresponding one to the left. The one on the left is on "UNBAL" while the one to the right is on "BAL". 
  
 Also, how does one set the switches to correspond to the various impedance levels of of 8 - 16 -32 etc?
  
 I haven't played any music yet through the amp because I wanted to clarify these things first. Also, what is the recommended impedance for LCD-3Cs?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Loquah

Hi adamaley. The switches should be matched - both UNBAL if you're using the HP socket. The BAL (balanced) mode works for the speaker taps only so you can use speaker taps via a fly lead / adapter (e.g. banana plugs to 4-pin XLR) for balanced headphone use, but this will only work if there's nothing plugged into the 6.5mm socket.
  
 As for the other switches, the settings are as follows (always reading from left to right if you're looking at the switches with the writing right-side-up):
  
 Low + Low = 4 ohm = lowest noise / lowest power
 Low + High = 8 ohm
 High + Low = 16 ohm
 High + High = 32 ohm = highest noise / highest power
  
 I can't remember exactly, but from memory the balanced switches will only work in certain impedance settings - 8 ohm and 32 ohm I think, but it might be best to check that because I have mine hard-wired which might be different to using the switches for balanced operation. I am 100% certain on everything else here though - definitely the positioning of the BAL / UNBAL switches should be both the same and both UNBAL for headphone socket use and the impedance settings above come straight from the manual.


----------



## adamaley

Hi Locquah, thanks for the response. Someone was kind enough to help me out on the Bottlehead forum, but his advice transposed the two middle settings to
  
 High + Low = 8 ohm
 Low + High = 16 ohm
  
 Can you, or anyone for that matter, confirm this.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## adamaley

I just had the following settings confirmed by Caucasian Blackplate, which differ from Locquah's above. I just didn't want any potential misinformation to remain. CB, I believe, is one of the designers at Bottlehead.
  
             ML       MH
 4ohm:    lo         lo
 8ohm:    hi         lo
 16ohm:  lo         hi
 32ohm:  hi         hi
  
 Hope this helps anyone in need.


----------



## Loquah

adamaley said:


> Hi Locquah, thanks for the response. Someone was kind enough to help me out on the Bottlehead forum, but his advice transposed the two middle settings to
> 
> High + Low = 8 ohm
> Low + High = 16 ohm
> ...


 
  
 My apologies - that's correct.
  
 Here's the page from the manual:


----------



## flying baboon

Oh, I almost forgot :
  

  
 I've ordered Silver/Oil Mundurf Supreme for my father's S.E.X.
 Now, time to find capacitors for my Mainline ! (and vanish the wood base...) I really like the sound of the Mainline so I will probably follow you advice Loquah and buy the Auricaps. Someone has tested other options ?


----------



## A2029

flying baboon said:


> Oh, I almost forgot :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I currently have 10uF Mundorf Supremes bypassed by 1uF Mundorf Silver-in-oil in my Mainline. I really like the increased smooth character that the silver-in-oil bypass brings to the sound. The 10uF supremes were a bit more extended in the lows and highs than the stock caps, add a slight amount of added emphasis on the middle/upper mids, and the combo (supremes + silver-in-oil bypass) adds a very slight "bloom" sound that is hard to describe to the mid/upper bass regions.


----------



## Loquah

If I had the budget I'd get some oil caps, but they're huge and expensive for 10uF. The Auricaps are an excellent option - very neutral sound, but I'm tempted at the moment to maybe try some obbligatos (waiting on a shipping quote from parts connexion). I'm not doing this because there's anything wrong with the Auricaps - I'm just curious to experiment.


----------



## A2029

loquah said:


> If I had the budget I'd get some oil caps, but they're huge and expensive for 10uF. The Auricaps are an excellent option - very neutral sound, but I'm tempted at the moment to maybe try some obbligatos (waiting on a shipping quote from parts connexion). I'm not doing this because there's anything wrong with the Auricaps - I'm just curious to experiment.


 
  
 Let me know what you hear if you do end up putting a pair of obbligatos in your Mainline. My ears are extremely sensitive to any problems in the really high frequencies (i.e. harshness in frequencies greater than 12 kHz). I'm not sure if oil caps have a bit more roll off in the really high frequencies, but from anecdotes they seem to. Although I don't really mind the 5-10 kHz bump in HD800's frequency response, I find their really high frequency response to be really annoying at times (I can hear up to 20 kHz still; I'm in my 20's).


----------



## Loquah

swich401 said:


> Let me know what you hear if you do end up putting a pair of obbligatos in your Mainline. My ears are extremely sensitive to any problems in the really high frequencies (i.e. harshness in frequencies greater than 12 kHz). I'm not sure if oil caps have a bit more roll off in the really high frequencies, but from anecdotes they seem to. Although I don't really mind the 5-10 kHz bump in HD800's frequency response, I find their really high frequency response to be really annoying at times (I can hear up to 20 kHz still; I'm in my 20's).


 
  
 I've been listening exclusively to the HD800s with my Mainline (with Auricaps for the output caps) the last few days and am reluctant to change anything right now - the combination is just magical. The treble is articulate and detailed, but never harsh or edgy and I'm extremely sensitive to harsh treble too.
  
 It looks like you've got Silver / Oils in yours - is that right?


----------



## A2029

The Mundorf silver-in-oil are only 1uF and are bypassing 10uF Mundorf Supreme that I have in there.


----------



## Loquah

swich401 said:


> The Mundorf silver-in-oil are only 1uF and are bypassing 10uF Mundorf Supreme that I have in there.


 
  
 Oh, I wondered that because 10uF Silver / Oils are SO expensive!!
  
 So, do you find your current setup is a bit edgy with the HD800s?


----------



## A2029

loquah said:


> So, do you find your current setup is a bit edgy with the HD800s?


 
  
 Hmmm, it's a good question. My current setup is Acer laptop -> Schiit Wyrd -> Schiit Gungnir -> Mainline (with the 10uf Supremes and 1uF silver-in-oil).

 I have a love-hate relationship with my HD800's; Some days running the setup I find it to sound absolutely beautiful. Other days, there is a certain edginess to it that causes some listening fatigue over long periods of listening time. I tried Audeze LCD-2's, but found their treble way too recessed for my liking. The Mainline was great for smoothing out the treble to a small degree.

 If there was a headphone with a frequency response which was the average of the HD800's and the LCD-3, and with the comfort of the HD800, I think it could be my perfect headphone...


----------



## Loquah

swich401 said:


> Hmmm, it's a good question. My current setup is Acer laptop -> Schiit Wyrd -> Schiit Gungnir -> Mainline (with the 10uf Supremes and 1uF silver-in-oil).
> 
> I have a love-hate relationship with my HD800's; Some days running the setup I find it to sound absolutely beautiful. Other days, there is a certain edginess to it that causes some listening fatigue over long periods of listening time. I tried Audeze LCD-2's, but found their treble way too recessed for my liking. The Mainline was great for smoothing out the treble to a small degree.
> 
> If there was a headphone with a frequency response which was the average of the HD800's and the LCD-3, and with the comfort of the HD800, I think it could be my perfect headphone...


 
  
 I don't know the Gungnir or Wyrd, but it might be that you need a slightly smoother / warmer DAC (and/or USB cable) to smooth out the treble. I was really worried that I'd find the HD800 dry and sterile, but I'm loving it with the X-Sabre connected via a Chord SilverPlus USB and then the Mainline (via Tara Labs RCAs)


----------



## flying baboon

Thank you for your answers ! 
sorry for that question but, how to bypass a capacitor ? (And what does it do on the sound ?)


----------



## Doc B.

You might want to try the Anax mod on your HD800s. Works for me.


----------



## Loquah

How to bypass depends on the application, but most comments here are for output caps, directly in the signal path (as opposed to power supply caps). To bypass a signs path cap you wire the second, smaller cap in parallel - you can just attach the smaller cap's leads directly to the bigger cap's leads.

What it does to the sound varies based on the cap, but to my understanding it influences the treble reproduction mostly and can help add extension or sparkle to a warm / rolled-off output cap (for example)


----------



## JamieMcC

My Cristmas present arrived early so having my very own Sex cap shoot out over the festive holidays!


----------



## flying baboon

Thanks Loquah!
 Auricaps ordered  (and Duelund Alexander for bypass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Nice JamieMcC! How does it sound?


----------



## Loquah

That's great, Baboon. Any chance you can install the Auricaps first and Duelunds later to comment on the impact they have?


----------



## flying baboon

Of course!


----------



## JamieMcC

flying baboon said:


> Nice JamieMcC! How does it sound?


 
 They are still settling in at  the moment and I plan to put a couple of hundred hours on them before making any decisions. I really did like the Ampohms in wax which I reinstall later so I  have a chance to compare going back the other way.
  
 At any rate its going to be fun to compare the two different types


----------



## JamieMcC

Happy new year all.
  
 Finally got round to replacing the resistors for two chokes in the Sex power supply as detailed by Mark (mcandmar) in his "Mcandmars ramblings"  thread over on the bhf and it is a really nice modification the effects of which are instantly noticeable. I used a small bracket mounted off of the stepped attenuator fixings.


----------



## Loquah

How would you describe the changes?


----------



## JamieMcC

The most noticeable thing is how much blacker the background is, notes just come out of nowhere the bass feels tighter to me and it feels like there is a fraction more detail coming through, perhaps the perceived increase in resolution is due to the blacker background/lower noise floor?
  
 The Triad C-3X chokes are £6.95 each on mouser so its not a particularly expensive modification when compared to cap rolling


----------



## olegausany

Is this right one for the SEX
http://www.thetubestore.com/Capacitors/AuriCap-High-Resolution-Capacitors/AuriCap-3-3uF-600V


----------



## JamieMcC

The stock cap is 1.5uf.
  
 I was going to post a link to the 2.2uf and 1uf but noticed they are out of stock which is no surprise with the 40% off!
  
 I have 2.7uf fitted in my Sex they are physically quiet large you might want to check the dimensions of the 3.3uf and have a measure up.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> The most noticeable thing is how much blacker the background is, notes just come out of nowhere the bass feels tighter to me and it feels like there is a fraction more detail coming through, perhaps the perceived increase in resolution is due to the blacker background/lower noise floor?
> 
> The Triad C-3X chokes are £6.95 each on mouser so its not a particularly expensive modification when compared to cap rolling


 
  
 Thanks! I might see if I can get some locally via RS and give it a try.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

So it begins...
  

  
@punit


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> So it begins...
> 
> 
> 
> @punit


 
  
 lol sweet what a way to start the new year.


----------



## Loquah

Nice!! Keep us posted!


----------



## skeptic

Welcome to the mainline club Paulie! Enjoy the build!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thanks!!  I am itching to build it!!
  
 Jamie, I think it is high time you picked one up so we can "build together", my Crack bother!


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks!!  I am itching to build it!!
> 
> Jamie, I think it is high time you picked one up so we can "build together", my Crack bother!


 
  
 lol  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what ever would my Sex buddies say!
  
 The Mainline is extremely tempting and I do have a pair of those 10uf RTI teflons tucked away! I think for the time being I am planning to enjoy getting to know the Sex amp for a little longer before embarking on a 2015 Bottlehead build.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hard to argue with that


----------



## JamieMcC

Sunday morning, sun shining through my window, cup of freshly ground coffee, croissants & honey on the table a news paper and the sex playing some favourite tracks on the speakers all makes for a nice way to start the day


----------



## Loquah

Sounds perfect, Jamie. Enjoy!!


----------



## lextek

jamiemcc said:


> Sunday morning, sun shining through my window, cup of freshly ground coffee, croissants & honey on the table a news paper and the sex playing some favourite tracks on the speakers all makes for a nice way to start the day




Crack and headphones here. Sunday morning jazz playlist.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

The build is officially underway!!  The wood base is glued and has two coats of polyurethane (at least one more needed).  The bell is painted and everything got mounted today...
  

  
 It's actually a very impressive looking amp in person.
  
 With apparently a lot of little parts...
  

  
 And some obviously special transformers...
  

  
  
 And through the magic of television, the four boards are built!
  

  
  
 Phew.  It doesn't look like much, but mounting everything and building the boards took nearly 4 hours.  I'm beat for the night.  More to come tomorrow!!
  
@punit


----------



## skeptic

Beautiful start on it Paulie!  If you have a chance at this point, you might want to go over all the solder joints on the boards with a loop/magnifying glass.  Take it from one who knows - way easier now than down the road.  I had one cold joint on a resister on the regulator board that gave me fits troubleshooting at the end.  Tired eyes are the bane of diy hehe.


----------



## Loquah

skeptic said:


> Beautiful start on it Paulie!  If you have a chance at this point, you might want to go over all the solder joints on the boards with a loop/magnifying glass.  Take it from one who knows - way easier now than down the road.  I had one cold joint on a resister on the regulator board that gave me fits troubleshooting at the end.  Tired eyes are the bane of diy hehe.


 
  
 Agree. Top work so far Paulie and nice pictures too.
  
 Great idea about going over the boards now. I completely stuffed the mounting of the blue pots on the power regulation board (with the little black and yellow Dayton caps) - wish I'd solved that one early!


----------



## JamieMcC

Paulie, green with envy here! Looks like you are off to a great start, I am very much looking forward to seeing more so please keep the pics coming.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thanks guys!
  
 I have been really nervous of a bad solder joint so I have been testing the continuity of each joint as I completed each board.  As I test each point, I inspect it with a magnifying glass.  Fingers crossed.  I am really trying to avoid having to retrace everything later...
  
 So far, it has been a really, really enjoyable build: just what I was hoping for.  It has a nice mix of easy and really fiddly little solders, etc.  One thing I didn't prepare for was the 24awg wire...  My stripper only does 22awg so I have to do the 24awg wire the good old fashioned way!
  
 Anyway, I hope to get the attenuators built today.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Loquah

bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> I have been really nervous of a bad solder joint so I have been testing the continuity of each joint as I completed each board.  As I test each point, I inspect it with a magnifying glass.  Fingers crossed.  I am really trying to avoid having to retrace everything later...
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Mainline was the most fun of all the kits I've built so I completely get what you mean. For me, the order of building enjoyment was:
  

Mainline
Crack
S.E.X.
Quickie
  
 That's not to say the Quickie wasn't fun, but the others were just "funner"


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

bigfatpaulie said:


> Phew.  It doesn't look like much, but mounting everything and building the boards took nearly 4 hours.  I'm beat for the night.  More to come tomorrow!!
> 
> @punit


 
  
 Wow, 4 hours..... That's pretty fast.
  
 My whole build, including wiring, took me about 35-40 hours - almost a month of work. Granted I could only work for 1-2 hours every day.


----------



## JamieMcC

georgenapalm said:


> Wow, 4 hours..... That's pretty fast.
> 
> My whole build, including wiring, took me about 35-40 hours - almost a month of work. Granted I could only work for 1-2 hours every day.


 

 That sounds like a great way to enjoy building the kit.
  
  


loquah said:


> The Mainline was the most fun of all the kits I've built so I completely get what you mean. For me, the order of building enjoyment was:
> 
> 
> Mainline
> ...


 
  
 I can not comment on your number one as yet but would definitely agree the order of enjoyment for  2,3,4


----------



## bigfatpaulie

What a night!!  My goal was to get both attenuators done but…  Well…
  
 So I wire the transformer, install the power board, plug it in and start testing the voltage at the 6.3v terminal.  Nothing.  Then the 275v terminal.  Nada.  So I start testing all around the main transformer and everything is reading zip…  Uh oh.
  
 Well, I am building a 220v version and I’m in Canada so I have 110v in my home.  I bought a 500 watt 110v  to 220v converter so I start thinking that that is the culprit…
  

  

 I test it right at the plug and it’s reading perfect: 220v spot on (not to mention surprisingly stable). 
  
 Fast forward an hour later and about 18 dead hair follicles.  I give up and call Doc.  I walk him though everything and he patiently gives me a “un-hunh” every few seconds.  I tell him how I tested everything over and over and it all reads nill and my power is fine and so on and so on.
  
 Un-hunh, he says with wisdom.
  
 “So, Doc, I think the 220v transformer in the Mainline is dead.  What do you think?”  To which he very humbly replies – Did you put the fuse in the power socket?
  

  
  
 I can’t believe I forgot to put the fuse in.  It’s even in the manual.  I thought I opened the little door and saw it already in there.  
  
  

  
 I…  I…  I essentially tested thousands of tiny little twinkle lights without them being plugged in.  Has Chevy Chase taught me nothing?!
  
 So I put in another 3 hours tonight but almost 2 were spent dealing with the fuse so I didn’t reach my goal of getting the attenuators done 
  
  

  
  

 Close, though.  And tomorrow is a new day!  Have a good night all and THANK YOU AGAIN DOC!
  
  

  
 See you tomorrow!
  
  
 -Paul
  
  
  
@punit


----------



## Doc B.

'Twas my pleasure. Believe me when I say that fuse thing happens around here, too, along with the one where the power cord is not plugged in to the wall.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

doc b. said:


> 'Twas my pleasure. Believe me when I say that fuse thing happens around here, too, along with the one where the power cord is not plugged in to the wall.


 
  
 Lol.  Well at least I was sure it was plugged in : )
  
 (this time...)
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## Armaegis

doc b. said:


> 'Twas my pleasure. Believe me when I say that fuse thing happens around here, too, along with the one where the power cord is not plugged in to the wall.


 
  
 My last couple "duh" moments were when I kept forgetting to plug the power cord itself into the amp. I'd crank the dac and still only hear faint sound from the amp.
  
_Power switch... check. Interconnects... check. Plugged in to powerbar... check... Why isn't it working?!? _


----------



## JamieMcC

Paulie grrrr now look what you have gone and done I was sitting listening to some music and then all of a sudden my mind has wondered off and I'm thinking about different finishes for a Mainline. I need to sit on my hands and save my pennies.
  
 p.s. your not alone I have plenty of my own *fuse* moments the last one earlier in the week was because I hadn't fully pushed in the head phone jack.
  
 I am hoping you might post a little commentary on how the Mainline compares to your DNA Stratus.  
  
 Your builds looking great by the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 keep the pics coming.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement - I really do appreciate it!!
  
 Jamie, I don't want to begin to imaging YOU building a Mainline.  It would be on a whole different level!!  
  
  
 (I can't wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) 
  
  
 Not much work was done today.  When I had a "job" I worked for a company that did some major lay offs today and a few friends of mine were let go so I spent some time on the phone with a few of them and grabbed a pint with a few others.  They will be fine, it was just a bit of a surprise for some.  But I am spent...  Heck, I didn't even have the energy to take a proper photo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
 But I digress.  The attenuators are built as well as the outputs are wired.  It's onto wiring the heater supply tomorrow.  Tomorrow will also be my last night for about a week as my wife gets back into town.  The following weekend I am bachelor again so the amp should be done then.
  
  

  
  
 I will also post my thoughts about the Mainline vs the Stratus.  I know when I originally was considering which tube amp to go for these two were at the top of my list and I could not find a direct comparison anywhere.  I will also be upgrading the caps in the Mainline to Auricap XO's Loquah style.
  
 Have a good night all!
  
 -Paul


----------



## Loquah

bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks for your kind words and encouragement - I really do appreciate it!!
> 
> Jamie, I don't want to begin to imaging YOU building a Mainline.  It would be on a whole different level!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice choice of caps, Paul!! I'm really enjoying the updates


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Well, I am back on the wagon (ie, my wife is out of town for the weekend)!
  
 I finished wiring everything on the main board…
  

  
  
 Some of the capacitors are really, REALLY small.  Nothing makes you feel old like trying to read one of these.  First, I squinted.  Then I used a magnifying glass.  To my horror, I still couldn’t read them.  Out came the macro lens.  Geeze… 
  
  

  
  
 I mean look at that printing!!  Wow.  Anyway, my wire forest is built and ready for some boards!
  
  

  
  
 The Mainline built sans boards.
  
  

  
  
 The Bias Regulator Board attached and floating.  The amp really is a sophisticated design.
  
  

  
  
 The first C4S board, hooked up and ready to go!!
  
  

  
  
 The assembled Mainline!  Now it’s time for some testing.
  
  

  
  
 Which went perfectly…  Until I go to the LAST step – Bias side B.  It is supposed to read 145v and adjusted by one of the 2 on board potentiometers.  Well, I twiddled and noting…  The voltage on the B side stubbornly stayed at 90v no matter what I did.  I lifted all the boards, looked over everything and I could not find a miss solder anywhere.  I tried biasing again.  Nothing.  I tested the resistances on the pots and they are fine.  After about an hour, I realized I forgot to cut one of the leads on one of those tiny blue resistors and it was making a connection with a free tab on the socket.
  
  

  
  
 Grrr….  Whatever.  Life goes on.  I found it, no sense on dwelling on the past.  At least the fuse was installed in the amp, right?
  
  

  
  
 Everything works and now it for the final touch!
  
  

  
  
 The time it takes to build a one is nothing compared to the time it takes to deserve one…
  
  

  
  

  
  
 It’s alive!  IT’S ALIVE!!!
  
  

  
  
 Well, folks that’s it until my new caps arrive.  I was going to install them today as Canada Post tried to deliver them on Friday, but was at work. 
  
  
  

  
  
 The notice clearly says I can pick them up “Tomorrow after 13:00”.  I went to get them but it really means is “Tomorrow after 13:00, if tomorrow is a business day”.  So I guess it will be Monday.  Once that’s done, it will be time for some seriously listening!!
  
  

  
  
 It’s been a last building this amp.  Thank you to everyone in the community and Doc for all your help.
  
  
 All the best and happy listening everyone!
  
  
 -Paul


----------



## JamieMcC

Paul that's a Stella update congratulations on being up and running. I have noticed you Mainline guys are setting some pretty high standards with neatness of the hooking up. Great pics by the way I am just hopeless with my camera the more I try the worse they come out.
  
 Mainline vs the Stratus sounds a bit like a prize fight between to heavy weight contenders which I guess is exactly what it is! Enjoy your front row seat. I wonder if it will be a knock out punch that decides the outcome or will they will they go toe to toe for the full distance with a split decision at the end?


----------



## Loquah

Congrats Paul and, to echo others, thanks for the great updates!!
  
 I love the look of your tube shields. Did you polish them or paint them?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Very nice congrats!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Paul that's a Stella update congratulations on being up and running. I have noticed you Mainline guys are setting some pretty high standards with neatness of the hooking up. Great pics by the way I am just hopeless with my camera the more I try the worse they come out.
> 
> Mainline vs the Stratus sounds a bit like a prize fight between to heavy weight contenders which I guess is exactly what it is! Enjoy your front row seat. I wonder if it will be a knock out punch that decides the outcome or will they will they go toe to toe for the full distance with a split decision at the end?


 
  
 Thanks, Jamie!  I see you were asking around about the size of the Mainline: making sure you have enough carbon fiber 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?  Well, it is a pretty intricate amp so I think it is good practice to be neat and keep everything organized.  A group I suspect you would fit right in with!  Haha...  Okay I'll stop 
  
 Initial impressions with the Mainline have pretty much guaranteed it will be a toe-to-toe match.  I absolutely LOVE the Stratus and I can't say enough good about it with the HD800's so when I say I think it will be a bit of a close race, that is really high praise for the Mainline.  But it's early and I want to give the Mainline time to settle in before I say much.
  


loquah said:


> Congrats Paul and, to echo others, thanks for the great updates!!
> 
> I love the look of your tube shields. Did you polish them or paint them?


 
  
  
 My pleasure!  It was a treat building the amp.  Yes, the tube shields are pretty sharp looking - they are a satin-esq finish and that's how I got them from Bottlehead.
  


i luvmusic 2 said:


> Very nice congrats!


 
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## skeptic

Congrats on the completed mainline Paulie! Looks great and no doubt sounds great too! I will be looking forward to your comparative comments vis-a-vis the stratus when the time is right.


----------



## Doc B.

Looks great Paul. Must admit to a little bit of personal satisfaction when someone finishes a kit the in the more "natural" look like we do them on the website.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thanks, Doc!  I sanded it with 400 grit then applied 4 coats of polyurethane: no stain.  The wood is gorgeous just the way it is.
  
 You've built a helluva BEAST!!


----------



## Armaegis

Say has anyone here tried the Quicksand with headphones?


----------



## skeptic

doc b. said:


> Looks great Paul. Must admit to a little bit of personal satisfaction when someone finishes a kit the in the more "natural" look like we do them on the website.


 
  
 Quick question on this topic - since it has been a number of years, and I have yet to take any steps to finish the bases on my crack or mainline.  Is a quick rub down with mineral oil a reasonable/viable option?  I understand mineral oil also offers some protection against rust.  Any reason not to apply a little to the transformer bell?


----------



## Loquah

I can't speak for the metal question, but I used linseed oil on my Mainline base with some mixed results (it remained slightly sticky after even quite a long time), but I think that issue was largely my error for using too much oil and a thickened oil. What I found even better was a simple bee's wax based polish and finishing wax (a 2-stage process) which is really simple and provides a beautiful natural finish and good protection too.
  
 The brand I used was this one: http://www.gillystephenson.com/ and it's applied using 000 grade steel wool and a soft cloth for buffing. Very easy to use and provides beautiful results.
  


  
  
  
@Doc B., apologies for the alterations to my kit from your original vision / design


----------



## skeptic

Thanks for the suggestion on the wax. Looks like a beautiful finish! I may well go that route.


----------



## JamieMcC

The graining of the alloy top on Paul's Mainline looks particularly good and quiet attractive.  The wood floor is a really nice back drop who ever does your polishing does a super job?


----------



## 412519

I just posted this question over at the T1 thread but this seems to be the more proper thread. Had someone the chance to compare one of the Bottlehead amps to a Meier oder Violectric amp and can post his impressions?


----------



## skeptic

bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks, Doc!  I sanded it with 400 grit then applied 4 coats of polyurethane: no stain.  The wood is gorgeous just the way it is.
> 
> You've built a helluva BEAST!!


 
  
 Any further thoughts on your mainline now that you've had a little while to enjoy it paulie?
  
 Also, for anyone feeling the itch, bottlehead has a serious mainline sale on through Sunday - don't know that they've had them this cheap since the preorder.  Still _totally _enamored with mine.  The build is incredibly rewarding and results in one of the best sounding hp amps out there to my ears - particularly with hd800's.  http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7581.0


----------



## bigfatpaulie

skeptic said:


> Any further thoughts on your mainline now that you've had a little while to enjoy it paulie?
> 
> Also, for anyone feeling the itch, bottlehead has a serious mainline sale on through Sunday - don't know that they've had them this cheap since the preorder.  Still _totally _enamored with mine.  The build is incredibly rewarding and results in one of the best sounding hp amps out there to my ears - particularly with hd800's.  http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7581.0


 
  
 Thanks for asking.  Not really to be honest.  It's really hard to say something about this amp that either yourself or Loquah hasn't already.  It truly is a lovely amp, particularly with the HD800's.
  
 I was originally planning on doing a Stratus VS Mainline and I started doing it...  I got to page 7 (MS Word, size 11 font) and thought this is silly....  I could blab on forever.  
  
 In short summery: (IE, this is excerpt of part of it...  Yeah...  Talk about verbal diarrhea.  Also, this is an unfinished first draft, so it is what it is...)
  
  
_{Please note, the blow post is IMHO and YMMV and don’t take to heart if you feel differently.}_
  
_{I’m not a writer and I am sloppy with the terminology and often can’t articulate what I hear so you will have to bear with me. }_
  
 The Mainline is Bottlehead statement headphone amplifier that boasts an output of about 600mW.  But who cares about numbers: how does this thing sound?
  
 I can save you some time.  It sounds really good with HD800’s and if you aren’t afraid of building one you probably will never find something that will best it sonically for similar money.
  
 Who am I kidding…  We are “headiophiles” (your heard it here first, folks!*) and we want to know how this thing stacks up to one of the other top dog HD800 amps: The DNA Stratus.  I’m not going to do a review of the Mainline because I can in no way shape or form add to Loquah’s already amazing review of it.  If you haven’t read it, forget this and go read that.  Go ahead.  I’ll wait…
  
 In the left corner, the no fuss, no muss, right down to business, the Bottlehead Mainline handsomely equipped with Auricap XO’s but otherwise stock.
  

  
  
 And in the other corner, the playful, the whimsical ooooooooooooooooold big blue, the DNA Stratus paired with Sophia Princess 2A3 Mesh Plates, EML 5U4G and a Pearl Reflektor 6N1P-EV "Gold Grade" but otherwise stock.  It is the latest version with addition chokes, etc.
  

  
  
 I want to put the cost of these amps out there because I do feel it is relevant.  The Mainline is $1200 and the upgraded capacitors were about $115 bringing it in at $1315.  The Stratus is $2700 and the tubes were an about an extra $750 bringing the amp in at a hefty $3450 – Nearly three times the price of the Mainline.
  
 I used the HD800’s, LCD3f’s and Hififan He-5 modified Code-X’s with the amp.  The source is a Bricasti M1 and everything is powered by a PS Audio P3 regenerator.
  
 Neither the DNA nor the Mainline can drive the Code-X’s well at all.  If you have He-6’s, don’t get either of these amps; but I don’t think that is a shock to anyone.   I felt the Mainline did a better job with the LCD3’s than the Stratus but I do suspect that that has much to do with my particular tube arrangement on the Stratus more than the amp itself, however.  My impressions below are done with HD800’s because both amps shine with them.
  
 I’ll start with the end.  The Stratus, to my ears, is the superior amp with the HD800’s.  It is not only technically better across the board but it is also a more pleasant listening experience.  The Stratus has an amazing ability to add a marvelous smoothness to everything without glazing over any detail.  The DNA amp adds soul to music, it gets my toes tapping, the hairs on my neck standing up and, most importantly, when I listen to it I forget about the “system” and get totally lost in the music.  Is it the perfect amp with the HD800’s?  Maybe, I don’t know.  What I do know is that it is so good I don’t care.  The Mainline, although excellent, does fall short of the stratospheric standard set by the Stratus.  But who’s surprised at 1/3 the cost?  After all, there are no free rides in life.
  
 But how big is the difference?  Hard to say, it’s subjective, YMMV, different strokes for different folks and I’m not an audio reviewer nor do I have golden ears.  And I do want to point out that the Stratus is widely regarded as one of the best amps for the HD800’s, if not _the best_.
  
 Methodology: I played the song on one amp, wrote down what I heard/though in regards to a specific aspect, switched sources and headphone cord, and listened again.  It’s the best I can do for an A/B.
  
*Bass vs Bass*
  
 Barenaked Ladies - Hello City
 Gordon has always been one of my “go to” CD’s.  It’s remarkable well recorded, easy going fun music.  It probably seems like an odd choice of song for bass listening but it has this really nice controlled bass line that is subdued and come out very muddled on many systems.  It is actually pretty tough to get this to not sound monotone.  The Stratus does a marvelous job of it: it’s rich, deep and detailed with a nice tactile feel.  The Mainline also did extremely and kept paces nicely with the Stratus.  The bass was more separated with Mainline from the rest of the music.
  
 Daft Punk – Instant Crush
 This is another very well done album.  It’s songs like this where the Stratus shows its teeth.  The bass is far more present on the Stratus.  The Mainline sounds weaker and less available.  The Mainline sounds more reserved, like it doesn’t want to get its hands dirty here.  The bass goes deeper on the Stratus vs the Mainline.  That said I was A/Bing the two and I had to look at the amps and take note of which I was listening too.  The differences were small.
  
 Tea Party – Temptation
 Finally, something not immaculately recorded.  It’s a gritty rock CD from the 90’s.  And you know what?  The two amps sounded very similar here.  Hello City had obvious differences, Instant Crush less so and this track... Not so much.  The Stratus has a little more slam again, but they were similar.
  
*Mids vs Mids*
  
 Buddy Guy - Bad Life Blues
 Maybe this should have been a bass track.  Buddy rocks it out with the best of them in one of his signature tracks.  The Stratus has clearly richer mids: the voice and guitar and meaty.  They are tangible.  They have an incredible life like fullness.  The Mainline sounds good, just small by comparison.  In one case I am in the room with the band and in the other case I am listening to a great _reproduction _of them playing in a room.
  
 The Tragically Hip - Poets
 Oh Gordon Downie…  I love your quirky voice.  Again, the Mainline is showing up to play, and certainly can hold its own, but the Stratus is just a master of mids.  The un-smooth texture of Downie’s voice is there.  This song can easily have everything blurred together but each instrument had its own place behind the lead letting the richness come forward.  The instruments with the Mainline were, again, thinner sounding.
  
 Eva Cassidy – Stormy Monday (Live at Blues Alley)
 I ********* LOVE Stormy Monday.  I don’t even care who sings it.  I use Stormy Monday twice in this review and I don’t care: deal with it.  When Eva belts out “Loooooooooooooord have mercy” she absolutely kills it.  I know her voice is on the high end of the mids, but for each category I am trying to pick songs that have a “low, medium, high” gradation.  The Mainline makes her sound a little nasally and lost a bit of the clarity in her voice.
  
*Highs vs Highs*
  
 Count Basie, Big Joe Turner, Eddie ‘Cleanhead’ Vinson – Cherry Red
 There is something very special about well reproduced brass.  The Mainline again shows why it is a world class amp.  All the bass is remarkably well rendered on both amps.  The trump is just magic on this track when property controlled and piercing if not and it was very enjoyable on both amps.  The Stratus did eek out just a little more texture, though.
  
 Rodrigo Y Gabriela – Syf
 What audio review would be complete without something from Gabriela?  Highs and upper mids can have weight and these amps bring it.  The performance is remarkably similar.  They are both, fast, detailed and dynamic.  You can feel the strings being plucked.  Both amps presented everything very cleanly and accurately.  There was no HD800 hump to be bothered by with my un-modded cans.
  
 Michael Jackson – Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough
 I have his “Number One’s” cd and that’s the version I used (I'm generally not a big MJ fan but he has his moments).  The air around the highs more obvious on the Stratus, but again, both amps did really well.  I find the Mainline to be a traditionally more solid state sounding and the Stratus more tubey**.  I know a lot people hate those terms, etc.  But I mean them to mean detailed and accurate vs liquid and involving respectively.  Both amps presented Jackson’s voice and accompaniments effortlessly and without fatigue.  Everything has more room around itself with the Stratus, however.
  
*Goosebumps*
  
 B.B. King and Albert Collins – Stormy Monday
 If you can get your hands on a high quality complete (11:30 long) version of this song, do it.  King’s soulful voice is presented comes though on the Stratus made me forget I was taking notes…  Several times.  Collins comes out of the wood work a few minutes in and his whisky soaked voice is so believable.  You can see where the two are sitting in relation to each other on the Stratus.  The Mainline pushes them together too much.  The performance is just electric and alive with the Stratus. 
  
 (I removed a lot of other sections I have half done like male, female vocals, spatialization, sound stageing, imaging, and so on...)
  
 So I rant a lot about the Stratus here...  It's no wonder it is often considered the best amp for the HD800's.  A lot of all this, however, has to do with personal preference.  The Stratus is a warmer amp than the Mainline and I find that mixes well with the HD800's.  The Mainline is much more neutral.  It's actually much more similar to my SuSy Dynahi in signature which also happens to be considered one of the best solid state amps for the HD800's.  The Mainline is somewhere in between the two for voicing, but much closer to the Dynahi.  As a side note, the Dynahi (also a DIY amp) cost more to build than the Mainline.
  
 The Mainline has a smaller sound stage than the Stratus, and with the HD800's, I found it was actually a GOOD thing.  The HD800's with the Stratus can sound a little disconnected and the Mainline had better left to right coherency.  
  
 The Mainline is an outstanding amp for the HD800’s.  The HD800’s are a picky pair and sound worse than most other headphones with the wrong gear.  I find the HD800’s performance is almost binary: either they are terrible or world class, but never mediocre.   With the Mainline, they are indeed world class. All the issues with lesser amps found with the HD800s (simblance, lack of bass, etc)
  
 If I had never heard the Stratus, would be I perfectly happy with the Mainline?  For sure.  The Mainline is certainly end game worthy and does everything really well.  The sound stage is large and deep and everything has a nice weight to it.  It really is just a great, neutral all around performer and a steal of a deal price.
  
_*I Googled it and I guess other people have used the world before, but not really in the same context, so I’m still claiming it as mine as there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it MUAWHAHAHAHA!!! _
  
_**  When I say "tubey" sounding or "solid state" sounding I mean tubey to be with a more forward a lush mid-range and a syrupy quality.  SS being flatter across the spectrum with a faster, tighter presentation._


----------



## rbc3

Sorry to drop in out of nowhere on you guys.  Been wanting to build a Bottlehead kit for a few years now and I finally bit the bullet. Binge reading this forum to decide what best to buy.  My collection of phones includes LCD 2.2, HE-500, HD650, Beyer DT880 600 ohm and DT770 600 ohm (had to find a decent closed pair for the office cubefarm).  My audio source currently is Bifrost Uber Gen 2, Lyr for orthos, and Valhalla for high impedance.  I also picked up a used Emotiva Mini-X A100 to try with the HE-500 per recommendations in head-fi about a good pairing (made an XLR to banana speaker tap adapter with gold Neutrik plug), but it's really a side step with the Lyr.  In other words only a trade off for some characteristics over others, to my ears.  Looking for something with significant improvement and want to build a kit.
  
 I was leaning towards the S.E.X. because of how well it seems to pair with orthos, but the weekend discount on Mainline pushed me over the edge.  Why not jump straight to an end game headphone amp?  I've also been wanting to build one of the Bottlehead phono preamps for my Acoustic Signature Challenger Mk3 with VPI JMW 9t tonearm and Dynavector 20x2l LOMC cart.  When I'm ready to jump in to the phono pre build, I'll add some Cinemag SUTs to work with the LOMC cart.  I might be convinced to build a line preamp at some point as well.
  
 With the Mainline ordered, I have 3-4 weeks to decide whether or not to leave the metal and wood stock, or do some painting/staining.  What kind of primer/paint is recommended for both the transformer metal parts and the aluminum chassis plate?  Do both need to be high temp?  I have some Rust-oleum primer and paint from another project that is indoor/outdoor and adheres to metal.  I'm not sure how well it will hold up if used on metal that gets very hot.
  
 Has anyone built their kit using upgraded wire or does anyone have any opinion about sonic improvements using upgraded wire and silver solder?  I have 26 AWG LLDPE silver plated copper wire that I could use if someone convinces me it would be beneficial.  How many feet of wire does the kit need? Want to make sure I have enough...
  
 My plan is to keep the Mainline stock to enjoy during break in and compare to my other amps.  Then once I get a good feel for the sonic differences, I'll later upgrade caps if I feel the urge (probably will like most of you here).  Are we ever really satisfied enough?
  
 -Robert


----------



## jodgey4

If you're only gonna have the one amp, I'd go with the S.E.X.. If you are gonna keep another for power hungry cans (HE-500, and the LCD-2's if they're non-Fazor), I'd consider a Crack + upgrades for the high impedance cans. Idk about the Mainline. Don't listen to me though... I haven't heard any of them, haha!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jodgey4 said:


> If you're only gonna have the one amp, I'd go with the S.E.X.. If you are gonna keep another for power hungry cans (HE-500, and the LCD-2's if they're non-Fazor), I'd consider a Crack + upgrades for the high impedance cans. Idk about the Mainline. Don't listen to me though... I haven't heard any of them, haha!


 
 LOL


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks for asking.  Not really to be honest.  It's really hard to say something about this amp that either yourself or Loquah hasn't already.  It truly is a lovely amp, particularly with the HD800's.
> 
> I was originally planning on doing a Stratus VS Mainline and I started doing it...  I got to page 7 (MS Word, size 11 font) and thought this is silly....  I could blab on forever.
> 
> In short summery:


 
  
 Hey Paul my Mainline brother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good things come to those who wait!
  
 Interesting write up thanks, when taken in context with the uber deep pockets required for the highly esteemed DNA Stratus it sounds like you have been pretty impressed with the Mainlines ability. 
 Now where did I put those RTI 10uf tin foil Teflons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a sure cure for any for any cold Eva may have caught!  Live at Blues Alley is one of my favourite albums along with Ruth Moody's These Wilder Things.


----------



## skeptic

bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks for asking ....  Also, this is an unfinished first draft, so it is what it is...)
> .....
> So I rant a lot about the Stratus here...  It's no wonder it is often considered the best amp for the HD800's.  A lot of all this, however, has to do with personal preference.  The Stratus is a warmer amp than the Mainline and I find that mixes well with the HD800's.  The Mainline is much more neutral.  It's actually much more similar to my SuSy Dynahi in signature which also happens to be considered one of the best solid state amps for the HD800's.  The Mainline is somewhere in between the two for voicing, but much closer to the Dynahi.  As a side note, the Dynahi (also a DIY amp) cost more to build than the Mainline.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks so much for sharing your detailed and thoughtful comparison Paulie!  Really enjoyed reading through it - what a wealth of information!  Your comments about how the mainline's voicing falls somewhere between a traditional warm totl tube sound and your dynahi are really on point as I hear it, and part of what I think makes me love this amp so much.  I feel like I'm getting to enjoy the best of both worlds in many ways.  Beautiful, detailed, dynamic, resolved sound, and impactful bass, but with just a little more fullness, richer timbre and better sound stage than I would typically expect from even really good solid state - and such natural trebles (as I hear them anyway), that I seem to only associate with excellent non feedback amps.  
  
 Out of curiosity, do you prefer your mainline on the high or low impedance setting?  When I first completed mine, I thought would err towards high with hd800's, but over time, I've found I keep it flipped to low for 90% or more of my listening.  I hear the trade off as a little extra fullness/mid-bass in high impedance mode vs a slightly leaner but tighter presentation, particularly in the deep bass.
  
 In any event, thanks again for sharing all the impressions above, and I hope you continue to find great joy in both of these marvelous amps.  I'll definitely have to keep looking for an opportunity to hear a stratus.  
  


rbc3 said:


> Sorry to drop in out of nowhere on you guys.  Been wanting to build a Bottlehead kit for a few years now and I finally bit the bullet .... the weekend discount on Mainline pushed me over the edge.
> ....
> Has anyone built their kit using upgraded wire or does anyone have any opinion about sonic improvements using upgraded wire and silver solder?  I have 26 AWG LLDPE silver plated copper wire that I could use if someone convinces me it would be beneficial.  How many feet of wire does the kit need? Want to make sure I have enough...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Robert - welcome to the party, and congrats on taking the plunge.  She's a wonderful amp and an immensely satisfying build.  I'm not qualified to give anyone advice on enclosures, but I did see a thread where bottlehead recommended using the stock teflon signal wire included with the kit, commenting that it is very high quality hookup wire. You might take a look here: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7491.0


jamiemcc said:


> Hey Paul my Mainline brother
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does this mean you bit on a mainline kit as well Jamie?!?  Saw your thread about the chassis plate size and very much look forward to the photos of your build and eventual impressions if my interpretation is correct.
  
 Also, thanks for the tip on the Ruth Moody album.  I love the Jenny's but haven't sampled her solo stuff.


----------



## jodgey4

jodgey4 said:


> If you're only gonna have the one amp, I'd go with the S.E.X.. If you are gonna keep another for power hungry cans (HE-500, and the LCD-2's if they're non-Fazor), I'd consider a Crack + upgrades for the high impedance cans. Idk about the Mainline. Don't listen to me though... I haven't heard any of them, haha!


 
 Oh I didn't realize you already bought the Mainline... I got confused or something. Everyone just ignore everything I've said! Haha


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> Does this mean you bit on a mainline kit as well Jamie?!?  Saw your thread about the chassis plate size and very much look forward to the photos of your build and eventual impressions if my interpretation is correct.
> 
> Also, thanks for the tip on the Ruth Moody album.  I love the Jenny's but haven't sampled her solo stuff.


 
  
 Hi Mike, yes I have also taken advantage of Bottleheads Mainline offer. Its been tempting me for some time now, for a short while I was also considering the BH Dac but the offer combined with the advantage that I can also use the Mainline with my vinyl set up swung the decision in the Mainlines favour. The offer was crafty timing on Doc's part being the end of the month on the Friday I received a nice pay cheque  from two long hard months contracting work.


----------



## moriez

Nice for you Jamie. Sounds like a deserved new project to toy with.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

skeptic said:


> Thanks so much for sharing your detailed and thoughtful comparison Paulie!  Really enjoyed reading through it - what a wealth of information!  Your comments about how the mainline's voicing falls somewhere between a traditional warm totl tube sound and your dynahi are really on point as I hear it, and part of what I think makes me love this amp so much.  I feel like I'm getting to enjoy the best of both worlds in many ways.  Beautiful, detailed, dynamic, resolved sound, and impactful bass, but with just a little more fullness, richer timbre and better sound stage than I would typically expect from even really good solid state - and such natural trebles (as I hear them anyway), that I seem to only associate with excellent non feedback amps.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you prefer your mainline on the high or low impedance setting?  When I first completed mine, I thought would err towards high with hd800's, but over time, I've found I keep it flipped to low for 90% or more of my listening.  I hear the trade off as a little extra fullness/mid-bass in high impedance mode vs a slightly leaner but tighter presentation, particularly in the deep bass.
> 
> In any event, thanks again for sharing all the impressions above, and I hope you continue to find great joy in both of these marvelous amps.  I'll definitely have to keep looking for an opportunity to hear a stratus.


 
   
 My pleasure.  I was hesitant about posting because 1) it's really unpolished and basically just me rambling and 2) I was leary that it would sound like I am knocking the Mainline which is certainly not my intent.  I prefer the Mainline on the low impedance setting with the HD800's personally for exactly the reasons you listed.  The Mainline is certainly something special indeed.  If you ever have the chance to hear (or buy) a Stratus, do it.  I really do love that amp: it is magical.  I considered changing it for a EC 445 and even for a brief moment of insanity an Apex Teton.  I've heard the EC and I prefer the DNA.  It's just a wonderfully musical amp.  But now I am just gushing.  
  
  



jamiemcc said:


> Hey Paul my Mainline brother
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 OMG OMG OMG!!!  You did it!!  You took the plunge!  I am so thrilled for you, Jamie!!  I can't wait to see what you do with your build: you never disappoint.  I am glad that you gathered that I am impressed with the Mainline.  It really is an extraordinary piece of gear and I would recommend it without hesitation.  Then you take the price into account and it's a just a slam dunk (then add the current promo...  wow).  I'm pretty confident that you will never look back once yours is built.  
  
 Your taste in music is obviously impeccable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Both the Cassidy and Moody albums, to me, are some of the most enjoyable ones out there and I've been though them more times than I care to admit.


----------



## JamieMcC

lol Paul thanks and OMG is about what it feels like, I am really looking forward to building the Mainline but will admit to being a little bit daunted by the high standard of those that have gone before. Hopefully the time spent on the bhf combined with a goodly dose of patience will pay off and a neat and tidy build will be the result, fingers crossed.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> lol Paul thanks and OMG is about what it feels like, I am really looking forward to building the Mainline but will admit to being a little bit daunted by the high standard of those that have gone before. Hopefully the time spent on the bhf combined with a goodly dose of patience will pay off and a neat and tidy build will be the result, fingers crossed.


 
  
 That's silly!  It's like anything Bottlehead - Take you time, you'll be fine.  Especially with all your experience.  It is really not a difficult build (just remember to put the fuse in the actual amp), it just has a lot of steps.  Doc's manual, as always, is easy to follow and very complete.


----------



## grausch

jamiemcc said:


> lol Paul thanks and OMG is about what it feels like, I am really looking forward to building the Mainline but will admit to being a little bit daunted by the high standard of those that have gone before. Hopefully the time spent on the bhf combined with a goodly dose of patience will pay off and a neat and tidy build will be the result, fingers crossed.


 
 Hahaha...good to know you feel that way too. Your build was one of them that I used for inspiration.
  
 Although, since I can't afford a Mainline, I have started rebuilding my Crack. Funny how much better I feel about my build now that I have a Stereomour build behind me. Waiting on some new cloth wire, since it does not take kindly to twisting with a drill, and the Speedball. Should be hopefully be completed in a month's time.


----------



## Loquah

Hi all. I've been stalking only for a while due to personal commitments, but really enjoyed your Mainline vs DNA comparison, Paul. It's hard to explain, but I find it kind of comforting to know that the Mainline can be bested for more money while at the same time performing very well against such stiff competition.

Jamie, with no pressure on you I'm keen to see what you come up with for the aesthetics of your Mainline. Or will you honour Doc B with a stock build?


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Hi all. I've been stalking only for a while due to personal commitments, but really enjoyed your Mainline vs DNA comparison, Paul. It's hard to explain, but I find it kind of comforting to know that the Mainline can be bested for more money while at the same time performing very well against such stiff competition.
> 
> Jamie, with no pressure on you I'm keen to see what you come up with for the aesthetics of your Mainline. Or will you honour Doc B with a stock build?


 
  
 Well at the moment for the Mainline I can honestly say I don't have a clue what I am going to do and even if I did I would most probably change my mind a few times between now and the day of delivery anyhow!  Saying that I have been sitting on a fun idea for a Crack enclosure for a little while now


----------



## NightFlight

Did you guys see that redonkulous out of this world steam-punk build? For aesthetics, that's the best I've seen.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

nightflight said:


> Did you guys see that redonkulous out of this world steam-punk build? For aesthetics, that's the best I've seen.


----------



## grausch

bigfatpaulie said:


>


 
 I think he refers to the builds over here - http://www.diyaudioblog.com/.
  
 Several great builds there if you scan through the blog. Also on the Bottlehead forums.


----------



## NightFlight

yep. I didn't want to be the one to link off to a blog. You know - head-fi history and all.


----------



## grausch

nightflight said:


> yep. I didn't want to be the one to link off to a blog. You know - head-fi history and all.


 
 I just follow a minimum number of threads, thus not aware of the history you are talking about. Would be a pity if I got banned for linking to that blog though. I mean those builds should provide inspiration for anyone wishing to build a Bottlehead kit. Especially the Coppermine Crack which is absolutely phenomenal.


----------



## jodgey4

I think they'll only ban if you link to content from a banned member NwAvGuy's blog - 'he who shall not be named'. Idk, I've gotten in trouble for something like that. I'll probably come back and edit this out in a minute, lol.

Edit: "We do not allow posts to be made on their behalf of banned members (like, for example, posting posts they make on their sites over here; and/or asking them questions, and then posting their responses here), nor links to be posted to the websites of banned members." - Joe (admin).

I sure hope Joe isn't banned .


----------



## NightFlight

grausch said:


> I just follow a minimum number of threads, thus not aware of the history you are talking about. Would be a pity if I got banned for linking to that blog though. I mean those builds should provide inspiration for anyone wishing to build a Bottlehead kit. Especially the Coppermine Crack which is absolutely phenomenal.


I was being a bit facetious.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

grausch said:


> I think he refers to the builds over here - http://www.diyaudioblog.com/.
> 
> Several great builds there if you scan through the blog. Also on the Bottlehead forums.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 I'll leave the other posts alone.


----------



## skeptic

FWIW, I don't think there is a global prohibition on linking to other audio sites, just a select few including nwavguy's now inactive blog and a few other headphone forums which were formed by certain groups of former head-fiers.  
  
 Highflyin's blog isn't add supported, doesn't appear to attack any head-fi admins or sponsors, and isn't related to any apparent for-profit enterprise.  I assume it is fair game.  That said, if I'm wrong/if you do make an oopsie in linking something that's not allowed, the mods just send you a short PM notifying you that your post has been edited per HF's policy.  I don't personally love the censorship, but they're pretty gracious about enforcement.


----------



## DDDamian

bigfatpaulie said:


>


 
 I think it might have been a reference to Doc B's post here: Steam-punk. Intentionally rusted steel and drop-dead stunning


----------



## DavidA

dddamian said:


> I think it might have been a reference to Doc B's post here: Steam-punk. Intentionally rusted steel and drop-dead stunning


 

 that is cool


----------



## NightFlight

http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2014/12/the-bottlehead-mainline.html


----------



## JamieMcC

Say Lachlan I have been wondering how the HD800 review of yours that was in the pipeline is coming along?
  
 I noticed you had tagged a little on the end of the Mainline review on your website Passion for Sound (by he way the new site is looking good).
  
http://passionforsound.lachlanfennen.com/ 
  
 I had been thinking about trying some planar's with the Sex but The HD 800 price has taken a bit of a tumble due to the weaker Euro and with the Mainline due to arrive soonish (good things come to those who wait)  my interest in the HD800 has been rekindled.


----------



## lost&confused

I had  hd800 with my crack and hated them,  really disappointed  maybe with certain types music and the high quality files their good but not for me..... sold them after a month....to me the hd600 and crack are miles better (my style of music)  the things had no bass what so ever  and the intimate  in your head sound was gone, thin sounding and no weight ...expensive mistake!  need a better amp  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/sennheiser-hd800-en-audiophile-headphones.html    had  a trade in ...where you traded any old sennheiser headphone and they gave you  £150 off !!  , I traded  an old batted pair of hd280's 
  
 I can't see the deal no more now , maybe phone them up and ask,  you get the 10 year warranty with club orpheus ( if thats still going?)
  
should say I find it hard to adjust to any headphone now ... years with the hd600


----------



## atsq17

lost&confused said:


> I had  hd800 with my crack and hated them,  really disappointed  maybe with certain types music and the high quality files their good but not for me..... sold them after a month....to me the hd600 and crack are miles better (my style of music)  the things had no bass what so ever  and the intimate  in your head sound was gone, thin sounding and no weight ...expensive mistake!  need a better amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I own a T1 with Crack and it's a perfect combo. 
  
 I don't own the HD800 but I too dislike them with the Crack. I much prefer them with a Mainline (which I also do not own).


----------



## lost&confused

never heard the T1 before , I heard T90 at  the same time I demo the hd800 and hd700 but they all sounded so rubbish on this amp in the shop,  the hd800s sounded best of them all tho,  I just thinking my crack would make them much better.
 i think the T1 will be my next headphone one day, I liked the comfort of the t90 a  big thing with me buying headphones comfort is.......and with the hd800 the headband kept moving forward when i leaned my head over , like typing on the keyboard , was real bad the hd600 I love the comfort , I get a bit of hot ears tho 
 thanks atsq


----------



## atsq17

lost&confused said:


> never heard the T1 before , I heard T90 at  the same time I demo the hd800 and hd700 but they all sounded so rubbish on this amp in the shop,  the hd800s sounded best of them all tho,  I just thinking my crack would make them much better.
> i think the T1 will be my next headphone one day, I liked the comfort of the t90 a  big thing with me buying headphones comfort is.......and with the hd800 the headband kept moving forward when i leaned my head over , like typing on the keyboard , was real bad the hd600 I love the comfort , I get a bit of hot ears tho
> thanks atsq


 
  
 No problems. If possible always try before you buy. Otherwise, get it at a price you can easily resell at so that it's effectively a free trial (minus time taken and shipping expense). 
  
 I'd like to share a couple of things with you regarding the T1. 
  
 I first heard Loquah's T1 + Crack + Matrix X-Sabre DAC and it was like WOW. Awesome soundstage, details and imaging (3d sound). I went and bought one. It didn't sound as good out of my setup so I tried on a friend's Crack and WOW again. There it is... the magic. However, I was using a cheap $180 pupDAC which was fine for mid-fi but my ears hurt from too much treble (from the whole setup) after a while. I couldn't stand it and sold my T1. 
  
 Then after reading many reviews I realized that I probably chose the wrong DAC and I hunted down a dark sounding DAC that emphasized low end. I then bought the Crack and T1 and WOW once again. Not only did I have the awesome 3d sound I wanted but now I had nice low end too. The treble emphasis was gone! 
  
 Since then, I've fine tuned my setup by changing cables on the T1 to a Whiplash V3 Hybrid, upgrading RCA interconnects (I now use a Black Cat Lectraline silver one), upgrading tubes (was using winged Svetlana, now 5998), also was using cleartop 12Au7 and now e80cc). My Crack itself has a stepped attenuator and upgraded capacitors. Also changed USB cables and was using a Black Cat Silverstar Double Decker before changing to LH Labs Lightspeed cable (until I just sold it yesterday). I also changed the dark sounding DAC from a Neko Audio D100 Mk2 (with Audiophilleo2) to an Audio GD DAC-19 (with Audiophilleo2) and then to an Audio GD SA-1.32. 
  
The point is... the setup is so good that I thought it worth upgrading and maximizing. I've since bought an LCD-X and have a good balanced setup at home but I never entertained the thought of getting rid of my T1 setup at work. It's priceless.


----------



## lost&confused

thanks mate
  
 I like what you say about the T1 with the big soundstage 3d sound and low end   thats what I'm after,  
 I looked at your profile and you've had and have lot stuff! looks like you had a real journey 
  
 what is the e80cc tube you like then and the film caps you have in the amp?  I have a couple telefunken 80cc and remember them being really bright them tubes,  I have the bog standard mcaps and think there great , I bypassed them with the little supremes mundorfs 
 going have a listen to the telefunkens again now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
  
  
  
 I really love the crack amp and my hd600   ...T1's will come some day and  going to do like you said get some  secondhand ones  
  
 thanks again mate


----------



## Doc B.

I think that is a very good post. The sonic attributes of the source can often dominate the overall sound of the system, so you need to keep the big picture in mind when combining components. One of my favorite FAQs is "what matters most in an audio system?"
  
 answer: 
  
 everything
  
@lost&confused lack of "in your head sound" with the HD800s... you have me smiling, as that's what headphone manufacturers have been trying to get away from for the past 30 or 40 years. My taste just happens to be a little different, and that out of the head effect is part of the reason I like the HD800s. For me they present a little bit more convincing sound stage than most cans -  not up to the level of K1Ks, but not bad. It seems that manufacturers are figuring out that to make it sound like the sound source is farther away from you it has to be - you guessed it - farther away from you. Hence headphones keep getting bigger and wider to accommodate moving the drivers farther from the ear. If that isn't your thing then I agree, HD800s are not the way to go. You might want to experiment with a crossfeed setup. It might help reduce the "all to the right and left" effect and get things a little more in the center for you.
  
 I prefer HD800s with the Anax mod. In stock form I find them a bit bright.


----------



## atsq17

lost&confused said:


> thanks mate
> 
> I like what you say about the T1 with the big soundstage 3d sound and low end   thats what I'm after,
> I looked at your profile and you've had and have lot stuff! looks like you had a real journey
> ...


 
  
 MCaps here as well. High five!    I haven't bypassed them yet though. Maybe there's more I can eke out of my system!


----------



## lost&confused

yep the way you explain hd800 doc is just right. exactly like  my experience   and thanks for telling me about this crossfeed thing 
  
 I think I like the mcaps more without the bypass atsq .....its just I've not had time to remove them   They  een installed now for over a month and I've tried some russian teflon before but I'm to impatient to wait for the burn in, and lazyhooking them up to something 
  
 I tried the telefunken again and I could only stand 5 mins , spacious sound but a bit bright ,  I love the mullard tubes


----------



## JamieMcC

I'm also a fan of the Crack and the T1 especially if the Crack has had a bit of hot rodding. The T1's just felt like they had been given a kiss of life and a dash of soul at the end.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

lost&confused said:


> yep the way you explain hd800 doc is just right. exactly like  my experience   and thanks for telling me about this crossfeed thing
> 
> I think I like the mcaps more without the bypass atsq .....its just I've not had time to remove them   They  een installed now for over a month and I've tried some russian teflon before but I'm to impatient to wait for the burn in, and lazyhooking them up to something
> 
> I tried the telefunken again and I could only stand 5 mins , spacious sound but a bit bright ,  I love the mullard tubes


 

  
  
 If you are interested in crossfeed, here is the schematic for one of Meier's adjustable passive filters, the Corda Cross-1.


----------



## JamieMcC

Forgot to mention lady luck smiled on me yesterday I was doing some reading about the 6C45PI tubes for the Mainline and one of the hits came back for 4x 6C45PI Reflektor branded NOS Tubes all dated 1976 for $20 and only listed the day before here in the headfi classifieds. I couldn't help myself and snapped them as up its always handy to have a spare or three or four.


----------



## skeptic

Very good score!


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> Very good score!


 
 These are the ones, posted today
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/760693/4x-6c45pi-nos-tubes-reflektor-brand-all-dated-1976


----------



## NightFlight

lost&confused said:


> big thing with me buying headphones comfort is.......and with the hd800 the headband kept moving forward when i leaned my head over , like typing on the keyboard


 
  
 Your typing will improve if you learn not to look at it.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Say Lachlan I have been wondering how the HD800 review of yours that was in the pipeline is coming along?
> 
> I noticed you had tagged a little on the end of the Mainline review on your website Passion for Sound (by he way the new site is looking good).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Jamie,
  
 Sorry it took me so long to respond - things are nuts for me so far this year - started on a huge high getting married and now am in my busiest work period plus getting hit with some nasty financial challenges so my time on here is limited at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am loving the HD800s with the Mainline and the X-Sabre. I had cooled a bit on the idea of writing an HD800 review because there are so many of them out there, but I'll provide a mini review of my setup here for the reference of all the wonderful Bottlehead fans out there.
  
 Everything in my system has been tuned for musicality - my DAC is on the musical side of neutral (Matrix X-Sabre), my USB cable is slightly mid-centric (Chord Company SilverPlus USB), my interconnects are pretty neutral (Tara Labs Prisms), and my Mainline has some pretty neutral, but still musical 'output' caps (Auricaps). The end result is a very detailed, but always enjoyable rig that just sings with the HD800s.
  
 I kept the T1s for a few weeks after getting the HD800s, but in the end there was just no denying that the HD800s (on my rig) were technically better and more enjoyable too. The Mainline is such a great amp choice for the HD800s because of its musicality (without losing detail and transparency). I've tried the HD800s now with a variety of setups:
  
 Using the Mainline as an amp and these DACs:

iFi Nano iDSD
iFi Micro iDAC
iFi Micro iDSD
Various mid-level DAPs
  
 Different amps I've tried:

Mainline
S.E.X. (my modded one with Mundorf Supreme Silver / Gold / Oil caps)
iFi Micro iCAN
Schiit Vali
JDS Labs O2
Various other amps at Melbourne Head-Fi meets
  
 Without doubt, the Mainline is still the most enjoyable amp pairing I've found with the HD800s. To be completely open, the Mainline is also the most expensive amp I've tried with the HD800s (not including a Lynx Hilo DAC with amp built-in), but the comparisons aren't really close. Interestingly, the iFi Micro iCAN is probably the nearest competitor to the Mainline when it comes to transparency, musicality and pure enjoyment, but the Mainline is still significantly better thanks to the sense of space and note weight it produces (as discussed in my original review in this thread).
  
 With all those different DACs, the Mainline has consistently shone. It's performance is limited by the quality of the output when paired with lower level DACs (as Doc discussed above), but it always sounds good - it's just able to give you even more quality and detail with higher quality sources.
  
 In my setup I've found no need for the Anax mod which is surprising as a treble-shy listener, but the Mainline just hits the sweet spot for me because the treble is all there, but smooth and effortless. It might also have something to do with my choice of caps, but I don't have any way to A/B with a stock Mainline to confirm that.
  
 I've tried a balanced cable, but interestingly there is very little difference between balanced and unbalanced operation when pairing the Mainline and HD800s. There was a noticeable improvement to the image clarity with the T1s in balanced mode on the Mainline, but not so much with the HD800s. I still choose to run the HD800s in balanced, but the unbalanced output is just as good to my ears.
  
 In short, the Mainline / HD800 combo has successfully cured any itch I might have had to upgrade my amp / headphones (I know this is said often around here, but I haven't bought a desktop amp since getting my Mainline and it's been ages). My S.E.X. and LCD-2 setup still gets used for cruisy rock listening (The Yardbirds sound great through that rig!!) but the Mainline + HD800s are king!
  
 I had hoped to be an early purchaser of a Bottlehead DAC to compare with the X-Sabre, but that plan has been shelved for a while due to finances and much to my dismay. That said, if I have to live with the X-Sabre --> Mainline --> HD800s for the rest of my years I'll be just fine with that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P.S. thanks for the compliment on the new website! I'm trying to find some time for a few new reviews soon and maybe I'll review the HD800s after all if there's interest.


----------



## NightFlight

Thanks man. I've been toying with the idea of the T1's and potentially wife wrath as a result.... but I think I'll just wait until my mainline kit arrives and cool that notion for a while.  Currently I'm perdy happy with my XDA2/Crack/HD800 rig as of late. I can totally zone out after the tubes are warmed up.
  
 The question is what is the upgrade path from the HD800? There's a new kid on the block with the HE1000 and I'd be curious to hear it on a Mainline.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.
  
 Unfortunately, I am faced with a rather terminal case of  upgraditis.  I can in the same breath say things like "Wow! That's freaking amazing! How do you think we can tweak it?". I take my time, but I do eventually always upgrade.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

nightflight said:


> Thanks man. I've been toying with the idea of the T1's and potentially wife wrath as a result.... but I think I'll just wait until my mainline kit arrives and cool that notion for a while.  Currently I'm perdy happy with my XDA2/Crack/HD800 rig as of late. I can totally zone out after the tubes are warmed up.
> 
> The question is what is the upgrade path from the HD800? There's a new kid on the block with the HE1000 and I'd be curious to hear it on a Mainline.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am faced with a rather terminal case of  upgraditis.  I can in the same breath say things like "Wow! That's freaking amazing! How do you think we can tweak it?". I take my time, but I do eventually always upgrade.


 
  
 I honestly don't know if there is a true step up from the HD800's once they are driven right.  Different options, sure, but definitely better?  Not sure about that.


----------



## Doc B.

I'd call K1Ks an upgrade from HD800s. Especially with the new amp we are working on.


----------



## jodgey4

doc b. said:


> I'd call K1Ks an upgrade from HD800s. Especially with the new amp we are working on.


 
 Must have a lot of power... .


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Hi Jamie,
> 
> Sorry it took me so long to respond - things are nuts for me so far this year - started on a huge high getting married and now am in my busiest work period plus getting hit with some nasty financial challenges so my time on here is limited at the moment
> 
> ...


 
  
 Damn you Lachlan for being so very helpful, that proved a expensive post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Damn you Lachlan for being so very helpful, that proved a expensive post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!
  
 Mineline + HD800's!  Congrats, Jamie!


----------



## NightFlight

doc b. said:


> I'd call K1Ks an upgrade from HD800s. Especially with the new amp we are working on.


 
  
 You had me on an easter egg hunt all over until I realized K1K is the AKG K1000.


----------



## MoatsArt

I think this is a shortening of the model's full name: K1k @ss


----------



## bigfatpaulie

nightflight said:


> You had me on an easter egg hunt all over until I realized K1K is the AKG K1000.


 
  
 I thought Doc meant the HE1000's (despite the 'k') as he said that "they" were working on a new amp...  ?


----------



## NightFlight

That and Mike over at Headphonia pretty much trashed the K1000's. Doc, your saying you're scraping out more detail out of them because I believe historically that's been the rub.


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!
> 
> Mineline + HD800's!  Congrats, Jamie!


 





 Cheers Paul, cripes Mainline + HD800's indeed all of sudden its starting to get a bit serious and I have been really happy with the T1's for the last few years, interesting time ahead for sure.


----------



## Loquah

doc b. said:


> I'd call K1Ks an upgrade from HD800s. Especially with the new amp we are working on.


 
  
 Doc, please don't go around posting things like that. I might have to sell a kidney! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jamiemcc said:


> Damn you Lachlan for being so very helpful, that proved a expensive post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL. Sorry Jamie. You'll be oh so glad you did it!


----------



## skeptic

Lachlan's mini-review is spot on.  I enjoy the mainline and hd800 combo so much, it really makes me excited to see you guys heading down the same road!  I also found the build immensely satisfying.   
  
 As for a possible upgrade path, it looks like Anax, Purrin & Co. are finally moving forward with a commercial version of the anax mod.  I've signed up to buy one and look forward to trying it, but as previously noted, the beautifully refined trebles on the mainline are already incredibly well suited to the hd800's.  (As I understand matters, this is consistent with Pass' writings on how a good nonfeedback amp avoids the grating high order and complex non-linear distortions that arise from the use of feedback.)  I was surprised and delighted to find that I preferred my mainline without my diy anax mod, whereas I used the mod more often than not with my crack.
  
 In any event, looking forward to seeing your two builds unfold and also to hearing more about Doc's teaser for a new amp.  
  
 [Edit - forgot to link to the referenced article: https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback ]


----------



## bigfatpaulie

skeptic said:


> Lachlan's mini-review is spot on.  I enjoy the mainline and hd800 combo so much, it really makes me excited to see you guys heading down the same road!  I also found the build immensely satisfying.
> 
> As for a possible upgrade path, it looks like Anax, Purrin & Co. are finally moving forward with a commercial version of the anax mod.  I've signed up to buy one and look forward to trying it, but as previously noted, the beautifully refined trebles on the mainline are already incredibly well suited to the hd800's.  (As I understand matters, this is consistent with Pass' writings on how a good nonfeedback amp avoids the grating high order and complex non-linear distortions that arise from the use of feedback.)  I was surprised and delighted to find that I preferred my mainline without my diy anax mod, whereas I used the mod more often than not with my crack.
> 
> In any event, looking forward to seeing your two builds unfold and also to hearing more about *Doc's teaser for a new amp.  *


 
  
 I'm sorry, you'll have to elaborate.  Please.


----------



## skeptic

bigfatpaulie said:


> I'm sorry, you'll have to elaborate.  Please.


 
  
 Wish I could!  His post above is the first I've heard as well.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

skeptic said:


> Wish I could!  His post above is the first I've heard as well.


 
  
 I guess I am having a slow night (which is REALLY slow).  After re-re-re-reading Doc's post, I see what you are saying.
  
 If they are making a new amp, I'm thrilled!  Count me in


----------



## Doc B.

nightflight said:


> That and Mike over at Headphonia pretty much trashed the K1000's. Doc, your saying you're scraping out more detail out of them because I believe historically that's been the rub.


 
 If this was on my forum, I would consider it a troll. I have no interest in d**k wagging over who has the most authority about what a headphone sounds like. I just like to make stuff, and I know what sounds good to me. And I happen to like the K1Ks. So we came up with something that I think works well with it.


----------



## MoatsArt

Can you share, Doc?
  
 Is your new amp primarily for speakers or headphones?


----------



## NightFlight

doc b. said:


> If this was on my forum, I would consider it a troll. I have no interest in d**k wagging over who has the most authority about what a headphone sounds like. I just like to make stuff, and I know what sounds good to me. And I happen to like the K1Ks. So we came up with something that I think works well with it.


 
  
 I've never heard them and only know what I've read. I don't have the cash flow to purchase everything (anything?) so unfortunately reviews are my primary mechanism to understand what is what.  My comment wasn't intended to rise hackles at all.  *shrug*  It was  the first thing googled, read and I found and read about the K1000's. Which happened to be negative. The K1K is before my foray into headphones so I don't know the history...(just what I've read) or what they sound like for that matter.
  
 If you're working on something that is pairing up with the 1K1's well, and I take the review at face value... then it stands to reason the amp might eek out more detail with other similarly driven phones as well. Sounds great. 
  
 Going back now and reading previous posts I can see how it my post might have come across. Sorry about that. It wasn't the intent. I'm am not a troll! LOL  I just have a foot stuck in my mouth most of the time.
  
 I'm a believer in your product. A customer even.


----------



## JamieMcC

Woohoo just received my Mainline shipping notification 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers Bottlehead Corp.


----------



## Loquah

Go Jamie!!!!


----------



## Doc B.

The question is whether the amp we designed to use with K1Ks is for speakers or headphones. I guess the answer is whether you consider K1Ks to be speakers or headphones. I kinda lean towards them being speakers for your ears. However I think PB is planning some switching that will let the amp work with all sorts of stuff, even IEMs - which if you saw the project you would probably find as wacky as I do. If you are all good children we might share the project at the upcoming Seattle group Head Fi meet at BHQ.


----------



## DDDamian

jamiemcc said:


> Woohoo just received my Mainline shipping notification :atsmile:
> 
> Cheers Bottlehead Corp.




Pins and needles? Excited for ya!


----------



## rbc3

My Mainline just arrived!  I'll probably spray the primer today or tomorrow (as soon as it stops raining here in the SF bay area, never thought I'd be saying that during the worst drought in recorded history), then top coat before the weekend and letting it dry a week before starting the build next weekend.  I'm really looking forward to it!
  
 Doc, isn't the Mainline intended to be a good match for AKG K1000?  I assumed that since the Mainline spec pages mention the balanced plug pinout matches AKG, that it was the amp you recommended for pairing with them.


----------



## JamieMcC

rbc3 said:


> My Mainline just arrived!  I'll probably spray the primer today or tomorrow (as soon as it stops raining here in the SF bay area, never thought I'd be saying that during the worst drought in recorded history), then top coat before the weekend and letting it dry a week before starting the build next weekend.  I'm really looking forward to it!
> 
> Doc, isn't the Mainline intended to be a good match for AKG K1000?  I assumed that since the Mainline spec pages mention the balanced plug pinout matches AKG, that it was the amp you recommended for pairing with them.


 
  
 Congratulations on your new arrival I just checked my tracking number and to my surprise mine has arrived in the UK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Your item departed a transfer airport in Heathrow, London, UNITED KINGDOM on April 7, 2015 at 1:49 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination.


----------



## NightFlight

Grats rbc3!
  
 Oh hey.. .Mine just made it across the border!
  
 2015/04/07    11:25    RICHMOND, BC    Item has arrived in Canada and was sent for further processing.


----------



## Doc B.

rbc3 said:


> Doc, isn't the Mainline intended to be a good match for AKG K1000?  I assumed that since the Mainline spec pages mention the balanced plug pinout matches AKG, that it was the amp you recommended for pairing with them.


 
 Most balanced headphone cables have gravitated to that four pin XLR connection, and they have pretty much adopted the AKG pinout configuration as a default since it was more or less the first can to use that connector. That adoption of it as a standard was why we chose that connector and that pinout and why we mention that we use it. Sorry if that was misleading. Of course one needs to look at the output power of the amplifier as a main criterion for its use with K1Ks. The Mainline at about 600 milliwatts of output power is pretty marginal for them. It was never intended that it would seriously run them, and I don't think you will find that we have said that it is recommended. On the other hand the 2wpc S.E.X. amp was found to be pretty good with K1Ks, even though rated quite a bit lower than what AKG specs for a minimum power requirement. 
  
 The new amp was designed with K1Ks in mind and output power is more like 4-5 watts. Of course this is all relative to amp output impedance and the intended load, a load which may be different in the amp spec (like probably 8 ohms) than what is presented by the K1Ks (120 ohms IIRC).


----------



## NightFlight

The mainline is here! But why is picking a top plate colour so hard? I've got Flat Antique Nickel Rust-Oleum, but I'm totally torn whether or not natural brushed aluminium is better.
  
 Edit: Well, its on there. I used piece of carboard around the same size to get a feel for it.  Its really quite sparkly.


----------



## rbc3

I've sprayed all the top (showing) parts in flat white and painted the wood base with a steel gray stain.  My goal is for it to come out very modern to match modern furniture.  I'll take photos once the paint is dry and I have the parts mounted to the top plate.  I'll probably wait until next weekend for the paint to properly cure on the metal parts.


----------



## Loquah

nightflight said:


> The mainline is here! But why is picking a top plate colour so hard? I've got Flat Antique Nickel Rust-Oleum, but I'm totally torn whether or not natural brushed aluminium is better.
> 
> Edit: Well, its on there. I used piece of carboard around the same size to get a feel for it.  Its really quite sparkly.


 
  
  


rbc3 said:


> I've sprayed all the top (showing) parts in flat white and painted the wood base with a steel gray stain.  My goal is for it to come out very modern to match modern furniture.  I'll take photos once the paint is dry and I have the parts mounted to the top plate.  I'll probably wait until next weekend for the paint to properly cure on the metal parts.


 
  
 Sounds like we have 2 very different looking Mainlines under construction. I can't wait to see some pics!!!


----------



## JamieMcC

My Mainline is still stuck clearing customs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 However my HD800's arrived yesterday so its not all bad news!


----------



## MoatsArt

Congrats!
  
 I will be interested to hear how you find these compared to your T1s.


----------



## NightFlight

Hey Loquah,
  
 Can you give me an IR Thermometer reading at the top plate where it meets the 6C45P sockets? I hear they get hotter and I noticed after application that rust-oleum has a max temp tolerance of 93o Celsius.


----------



## rbc3

Here's a preview.  The color of the gray wood stain isn't that dark in real life.  I'm going to wait a week for the paint to cure so the paint is hardened on all the small parts before I start the build.


----------



## Loquah

I don't have an ir thermometer unfortunately, but I'd be amazed if the temp reaches anywhere near 93C. I can touch the tube covers and surrounding chassis briefly with no troubles.


----------



## NightFlight

Oh, okay. I thought I read you doing some measurements but I must have that mixed up then. A touch test is likely good enough.


----------



## NightFlight

How is the Mainline plastic identification plate normally packed? I seem to be overlooking it or its missing from my kit. Thought perhaps it was packed in with the wood panels, but its not there.


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> How is the Mainline plastic identification plate normally packed? I seem to be overlooking it or its missing from my kit. Thought perhaps it was packed in with the wood panels, but its not there.


 

 Hi I received email notification of a second shipment containing a missing Mainline part this might have been yesterday or day before. Perhaps it is the same part. I just hope it doesn't attract the same handling fee $20-$30 my end this is normally charged for each box the size which  the kits normally come in. Hopefully for a small item with less value it might come straight through with out the associated charges (pigs might fly) but I live in hope and have my fingers crossed.


----------



## NightFlight

Ditto. I also have another on its way. Guessing it has the attenuator mounting plate as well. Oh well, it's not like I don't have boards to stuff. Wheee...
  
 Sounds like the Bottlehead team was working hard to get these to us so we can get started.  Big thanks to everyone Doc.


----------



## JamieMcC

moatsart said:


> Congrats!
> 
> I will be interested to hear how you find these compared to your T1s.


 
  
 Hi Nathan I have been listening to the HD800 for a couple of days now with my Sex (modified).  I plan to listen to them for a week or two before listening to the T1's again as I am hopeless with quick AB comparisons. But they certainly are more different to the T1 than I had expected and can honestly say at first my brain was overwhelmed and slightly confused with the level of information it was being hit with.  My jaw hit the floor the first time I heard some violins and cello and they gave a superb sense of a piece of music building towards its crescendo that gave me Goosebumps!  
  
 Its so far so good and I'm really looking forward to trying them out with the Mainline.
  


rbc3 said:


> Here's a preview.  The color of the gray wood stain isn't that dark in real life.  I'm going to wait a week for the paint to cure so the paint is hardened on all the small parts before I start the build.


 
  
 Nice to see a such a different colour choice, I'm looking forward to seeing more.


----------



## NightFlight

jamiemcc said:


> Hi Nathan I have been listening to the HD800 for a couple of days now with my Sex (modified).  I plan to listen to them for a week or two before listening to the T1's again as I am hopeless with quick AB comparisons. But they certainly are more different to the T1 than I had expected and can honestly say at first my brain was overwhelmed and slightly confused with the level of information it was being hit with.  My jaw hit the floor the first time I heard some violins and cello and they gave a superb sense of a piece of music building towards its crescendo that gave me Goosebumps!
> 
> Its so far so good and I'm really looking forward to trying them out with the Mainline.


 
  
 I don't know where your musical tastes/limits lie, but try something like Boards of Canada - 'Trans Canada Highway'. FLAC or better of course. Don't waste your time with youtube, it doesn't translate. I gravitate to Electronica with high detail that isn't washed out harmonically. Bluetech's 'Prima Materia' and 'Elementary Particles' albums are simply just _transporting_ with the soundstaging effects coupled with the HD800 and a really good tube setup.  As fake as this kind of electronica is... I always end up there. It's my preferred headspace.


----------



## CADCAM

I'm using a Little Dot MKIII with Novosibirsk power tubes and 6ZH1P-EV VOSKHOD or EI 6HM5 ( EC900 6HA5 6HQ5 ) Yugoslavian drivers. I really enjoy the sound of this amp with my HD600 & DT880 headphones. Would it be worth getting the Crack? I don't solder but have a friend who does and I'm sure I could convince her to built this for me. I also have several SS amp but love options. Any input guys? 
 thanks


----------



## i luvmusic 2

cadcam said:


> I'm using a Little Dot MKIII with Novosibirsk power tubes and 6ZH1P-EV VOSKHOD or EI 6HM5 ( EC900 6HA5 6HQ5 ) Yugoslavian drivers. I really enjoy the sound of this amp with my HD600 & DT880 headphones. Would it be worth getting the Crack? I don't solder but have a friend who does and I'm sure I could convince her to built this for me. I also have several SS amp but love options. Any input guys?
> thanks


 
  IMHO yes specially the SPEEDBALL is on sale for only $20 with the  CRACK order, The MK III can't compete with the CRACK even you are using a C3g and 6SN7 for your MK III which to my ears these are the best tubes for the MK III.I used my DT880 600R and HD650 for my CRACK and MK III.If you like modding the crack is for you.Speaking of modding i just replaced the Diodes with this CREE DIODES and i was blown away how good it is.

 YEAH YEAH I'AM A CRACK ADDICT SO WHAT.................


----------



## NightFlight

cadcam said:


> I'm using a Little Dot MKIII with Novosibirsk power tubes and 6ZH1P-EV VOSKHOD or EI 6HM5 ( EC900 6HA5 6HQ5 ) Yugoslavian drivers. I really enjoy the sound of this amp with my HD600 & DT880 headphones. Would it be worth getting the Crack? I don't solder but have a friend who does and I'm sure I could convince her to built this for me. I also have several SS amp but love options. Any input guys?
> thanks


 
  
 I would get the kit because of the sale on right now. Myself I'm tempted to pick one up to build and sell it.
  
 I would recommend that you grab the pair of kits and use it as an excuse to get your friend to show you how to solder! %50 of the fun of this kit is to build it. You should be able to build this novice kit with very little guidance in addition to the manual even if you are uncertain which end of the iron is hot.  I can't see how  you could go wrong here.


----------



## NightFlight

I'm floored at just how easy the Mainline is to build!  I only have the stoppers, circuit output and board mounting to go. Pulling an all-weekender with work, so no time to finish it off.  Otherwise if I just had a few more hours I'd be done. Dang-nabbit!


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> I'm floored at just how easy the Mainline is to build!


 
  
 Well I am very happy to hear that as my kit arrived today


----------



## NightFlight

There are some fiddly bits, like the way the heater STP are connected and chained together (+the 1mfd caps) on the 4/5 A and C socket pins. It took a bit of concentration and patience to get the all the connections properly wrapped so that four different wires had proper mechanical connectivity on one tube pin.


----------



## rbc3

Here is the finished product.  I like it enough that I'm planning to build a Stereomour in the same color scheme.


----------



## Loquah

Wow. That looks great! Very unique


----------



## JamieMcC

Neat looking colour combination.  I'm looking forward to making a start on mine next.


----------



## Doc B.

Cool! It has sort of an International Space Station vibe.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

doc b. said:


> Cool! It has sort of an International Space Station vibe.


 
  
 More like a 2001 vibe


----------



## JamieMcC

I was thinking more Space 1999


----------



## Doc B.

OK, maybe more like a  _proposed_ ISS 
  

  
 I gotta admit the real thing looks more like our lab when PB hasn't cleaned up for three weeks.


----------



## Loquah

LOL - high tech mess!


----------



## Rocketman248

I just swapped out the stock Solen 1.5uF poly caps in my S.E.X. for some Jantzen Superior Z-Caps, and I'm loving it so far.  That, combined with the C4S upgrade, and a nice stepped attenuator, makes the S.E.X. is an amazing amp!


----------



## Loquah

rocketman248 said:


> I just swapped out the stock Solen 1.5uF poly caps in my S.E.X. for some Jantzen Superior Z-Caps, and I'm loving it so far.  That, combined with the C4S upgrade, and a nice stepped attenuator, makes the S.E.X. is an amazing amp!


 
  
 Yeah. As good as the stock kit is there's plenty of potential for upgrades


----------



## NightFlight

Well, my Mainline has been breaking in for around 11hrs. I like what I'm hearing but I still find it a bit hard. I expect that will calm and come to total fruition at around the 100-400hr mark.   I think there's a lot of potential here. Its starting to tighten up and reveal.  In fact, I already heard new sounds on the Rumours album.  I didn't think that was still possible given my number of listens on various systems.  The mainline is definitely an adjustment from the Crack. 
  
 Here's what I use for a static passive load for head amp break-ins:
  

  
 Here Tip and Ring are just going through 47Ohms to sleeve (ground). Then you don't have to worry about good headphones or hear crappy ones.


----------



## Loquah

The Mainline is definitely a cleaner and more resolved sound than the Crack. What HPs are you using and have you tried both low and high impedance modes?


----------



## NightFlight

The HD800 is only only set that I have/need I think. I've tried the lower impedance and so far I think the higher impedance is a little more fleshed out but its hard to tell. It seems to jump up a couple db when switching to the higher impedance setting.  ~30hrs now and it seems to starting to shed some of the glare.


----------



## Doc B.

nightflight said:


> It seems to jump up a couple db when switching to the higher impedance setting.


 
 Yes. The higher impedance tap has more turns and thus less step down from the tube's output voltage at the primary winding than the low impedance tap does. That's how transformers work to adjust impedance.


----------



## NightFlight

Makes sense. Corresponding to a higher XL?
  
 At about the 60hr break-in point and the Mainline... went sublime. I know its been used to describe this amp before, but its about best word to use. With the HD800 anyhow. The pairing is something else. While my Crack is tweaked and rolled and comes close, the Mainline breaks out more detail with better layering in all respects. Tones of new nuance coming out of well known tracks.  I had some fear of not being able to roll to tweak the sound to where I wanted it, but I think the Mainline is right where most audiophools want to go anyhow.  I also have a strong dislike of cheap Russian glass character, but none of that is in this implementation. 
  
 I hope to get a little more out of it swapping out the Dayton Caps but I'm not holding my breath.  
  
 I'm torn on which to with here:
  

Auricap 10uF / 400VDC XO Series, Metalized Polypropylene 
Jupiter 10uf / 300VDC, HT Series, Alum Foil & Paper Beeswax
Mundorf Mcaps
Clarity
  
  
 The Jupiters seems like an interesting place to go, but the XO Auricaps have been reviewed by some to trump them. And Mundorf is just Mundorf.  Everyone has their preference I guess... *sigh*  Should I just add two more to the list and roll a die? *lol*


----------



## A2029

nightflight said:


> I'm torn on which to with here:
> 
> 
> Auricap 10uF / 400VDC XO Series, Metalized Polypropylene
> ...


 
  
 I'm sure you've seen sites such as these:
http://www.laventure.net/tourist/caps.htm
http://www.head-fi.org/t/284863/orgy-of-capacitors-the-cap-thread
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

  I would say that it all depends on how much $ you have to plunk down on the caps. If you have a big wad of cash you'd like to throw down, I would highly recommend (from experience) the Mundorf Supreme Silver-In-Oil, they give all the resolution, plus an amazing "silkiness" to the tonal character.


----------



## NightFlight

MUNDORF-71366
  
  
 *10µF / 1000V**, M-CAP® Supreme Silver / Gold & Oil, * 45mm W x 106mm L, *Each*

*$277.54 pcX USD Price* 


 Ouch.... but they can charge what they want I guess. They got 'em and I don't.


----------



## A2029

MUNDORF-70293    *10µF / 1000V,* *M-CAP® Supreme Silver & Oil,  *46mm W x 110mm L, *Each*


*$208.12 pcX USD Price* 

 I was thinking those one's moreso, but ya, still a hard pill to swallow.
  
 I'd probably go with the Auricap XO if you want to upgrade on the cheap


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

Wow, I paid $250 for *two *RTI 10uf tin foil Teflons and thought that's expensive....


----------



## Doc B.

I would not characterize the 6C45pi as "cheap Russian glass", anymore than I would characterize Rachmaninoff as some piano player who wrote a few tunes. The closest tube you are going to find electrically is the WE437A.


----------



## mcandmar

I've never been sure about the Clarity caps, some say they have a slightly dark presentation to them.  I have them in my Quickie based amp and its always been on the back of my mind that it would be better off with something else.
  
 I can highly recommend the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps, use those in my S.E.X. amp and a few others. The Jupiters are a step above the Mundorfs, have a set of those in my S.E.X. amp and preamp but they are another step up in terms of cost too.
  
 I wouldn't fancy having to buy any of the above in a 10uf capacity, eek!


----------



## skeptic

nightflight said:


> Should I just add two more to the list and roll a die? *lol*


 
  
 You just need a 4 sided die from the table top rpg days!  In all candor though, I wouldn't say there is any reason to rush to upgrade your output caps.  The stock build is indeed sublime, particularly with hd800's.  
  
 Without being able to compare my mainline, with RTI's (now probably burned in), to a stock build, side by side, I am not entirely confident that I would be able to clearly tell the difference between the two, much less conclude that the fancy teflon caps necessarily make the amp sound better than ordinary well made film caps.  
  
 My reasoning in picking up the RTI's was mainly because I thought it was cool to be able to incorporate a boutique teflon cap made for ARC but apparently rejected because the physical size was off.  As I understand it, the closest production 10uf teflon cap (also made by RTI), are V-caps, which run $700 a pop.  So these seemed like a deal....sorta.  Maybe they do sound better, and maybe it is all just in my head.  The amp was so damn good to begin with, it is really hard to know.    
  


doc b. said:


> I would not characterize the 6C45pi as "cheap Russian glass", anymore than I would characterize Rachmaninoff as some piano player who wrote a few tunes. The closest tube you are going to find electrically is the WE437A.


 
  
 Classic!  Yeah - from everything I have read, I understand they are wonderful tubes but difficult to implement.  Seems like you guys nailed it, and I am indeed thankful to be able to buy a small reserve at a modest $15 each and never have to think about/be tempted by rolling.


----------



## NightFlight

doc b. said:


> I would not characterize the 6C45pi as "cheap Russian glass", anymore than I would characterize Rachmaninoff as some piano player who wrote a few tunes. The closest tube you are going to find electrically is the WE437A.


 
  
 Well no.  There's good Russian glass and poor Russian glass.  Previously even some of the best I've heard still had some of the characterization that I personally found so oddly un-palatable. An odd oily quality that could be akin to handling styrofoam or perhaps like nails on a chalkboard to some. Not that it sounded like that, just a way to describe how difficult it was for me to listen.
  
 According to Bob's tube shootout ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes#post_11464856 )  some Russian 6922 equivalents come out pretty strong against historically accepted titans of the 6922 world. A point he has beat to death.  Shortly after his post above, a conclusion we came to in the Lyr Tube rolling thread is that around %50 of people either prefer the Siemens CCa or the good Russian 70's era as their top picks. Oddly, those who did make those decisions after hearing both felt strongly for one over the other as their own first pick. Of course, that poll was not over a very large group.   People are wired differently. *shrug* I suppose that's a good thing. 
  
 The 1963 Siemens CCa glass tested in that review happened to be my own pair that I just let go (much to my chagrin) in order to pave the way for my Mainline purchase. I also still have a pair of the '75's which Rob reviews as #1. But then again, that's his preference and that's what he sold to me based on that. I gave it an honest go, but unfortunately I just couldn't grok it.
  
 I guess the point I'm really after is that there are a whole heck of a pile of Russian 6N23Ps from the 80's and 90s that are IMHO just complete ****. I am pleasantly surprised that the 6C45Pi is NOT in the category at all. Its a totally different animal.  In fact, in the Mainline, I feel the 6C45pi stomp the "Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields" as they stand implemented in the Leer.
  
 I am in fact kind of happy I can't roll tubes in the Mainline. Nor does it sound like it needs too.  That alone is guaranteed to save me at least a foolish $1K over the next few years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I'm really impressed, and I don't say that lightly. I'm not one to give away my stars. On my scale there is no 10, but the stock Mainline so far to my ear is pulling a solid 9.


----------



## Doc B.

Glad you're enjoying it. I have a little more personal investment in that design than most, as it is more or less the practical version of a full stops statement amp I built about a dozen years ago. It was fun to combine what we learned from doing that project with what we have learned since then.
 We're doing the statement amp thing again with a very different design, and hoping to have it ready to show this weekend at the Head Fi meet here. Maybe it will include some ideas that get incorporated into future kits too.


----------



## smitty1110

doc b. said:


> Glad you're enjoying it. I have a little more personal investment in that design than most, as it is more or less the practical version of a full stops statement amp I built about a dozen years ago. It was fun to combine what we learned from doing that project with what we have learned since then.
> We're doing the statement amp thing again with a very different design, and hoping to have it ready to show this weekend at the Head Fi meet here. Maybe it will include some ideas that get incorporated into future kits too.


 

 Very nice! I new 2a3 amp, and now another headphone amp for me to salivate over. Are you going to release more info on the site after the meet?


nightflight said:


> I am in fact kind of happy I can't roll tubes in the Mainline. Nor does it sound like it needs too.  That alone is guaranteed to save me at least a foolish $1K over the next few years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's my big problem with my mainline right now, it's close to stock and it sounds really good. I just have that urge to find some upgrades to make to try to close the gap a little bit more. Thinking about some bypass caps, but I'm not sure if it would be a good investment. I should have majored in CE or EE instead of CS...


----------



## NightFlight

smitty1110 said:


> Very nice! I new 2a3 amp, and now another headphone amp for me to salivate over. Are you going to release more info on the site after the meet?
> That's my big problem with my mainline right now, it's close to stock and it sounds really good. I just have that urge to find some upgrades to make to try to close the gap a little bit more. Thinking about some bypass caps, but I'm not sure if it would be a good investment. I should have majored in CE or EE instead of CS...


 
  
 http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_applications.html
  
 See the note on bypassing. Doesn't mean its right, but...


----------



## smitty1110

nightflight said:


> http://www.audience-av.com/capacitors/a_applications.html
> 
> See the note on bypassing. Doesn't mean its right, but...


 

 I figured as much (at least some stuff from high school electronics suggested it would be a bad idea), but I didn't know if there was any place in the power subsystem that would be worthwhile. I've seen a lot of posts/articles that mentioned bypass caps in places outside of signal chains, I just don't have enough knowledge to work out what to do myself. If there's no good place because of the design of for space reasons, that just means that the upgrade funds will go towards other things.


----------



## Loquah

smitty1110 said:


> Very nice! I new 2a3 amp, and now another headphone amp for me to salivate over. Are you going to release more info on the site after the meet?
> That's my big problem with my mainline right now, it's close to stock and it sounds really good. I just have that urge to find some upgrades to make to try to close the gap a little bit more. Thinking about some bypass caps, but I'm not sure if it would be a good investment. I should have majored in CE or EE instead of CS...


 
  
 An upgrade to the output caps is a nice option for a slight gain, but you might be hard-pressed to find anything else that will deliver a significant gain


----------



## Doc B.

Yes, we will give the details of the new amp after the meet on Saturday. Or maybe during, depending upon who might be posting from the event.


----------



## Loquah

doc b. said:


> Yes, we will give the details of the new amp after the meet on Saturday. Or maybe during, depending upon who might be posting from the event.


 
  
 Holy $#!& that looks cool!
  
 I'm looking forward to learning more, Doc.


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> An upgrade to the output caps is a nice option for a slight gain, but you might be hard-pressed to find anything else that will deliver a significant gain


 
  
 I was reading about the TL 404 auto transformers used in a few head amps they are out of my price range around $500+ each but did  noticed a build or two had used alternative transformer the Sowter 8650 at £90 a purpose made headphone transformer also noting similar results to the TL404. Not sure if it would be suitable for the Mainline but looks a possible option and the idea did cross my mind at the time.
  
http://www.sowter.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=8665&PN=SOWTER_TRANSFORMERS_HEADPHONE_TRANSFORMERS_29%2ehtml#a253
  
 copy & paste
  

*APPLICATION* Designed to be driven from a cathode follower output stage via a coupling capacitor. Suitable for headphones with an impedance in the range 30 to 600 ohms.*FEATURES *Combination core using High grade Grain Oriented Silicon Iron (M6) and Mumetal (76% Nickel). This provides ultra low distortion, exceptional bandwidth and transient response which is maintained over the full dynamic range. Three separate secondary windings are provided which may be connected in series or parallel for 30 to 100, 100 to 250, 250 to 600 ohms headphones


----------



## MoatsArt

.


----------



## lukeap69

Very interesting...


----------



## Doc B.

That Sowter description says it's for cathode followers, implying a very low primary impedance. I don't see the model listed at the link, but Mainline does not use a CF. If you use a TL404 - though it is very good, you will forfeit the balanced output as it is not a transformer but rather an autoformer. The one guy I know of who has used them I think did not try the stock ones first so he doesn't know if the setup is better or worse than stock (an unfortunately too common condition with a lot of modders). My experience is that the Mainline sounded better in some ways than the big TL404, dual mono, custom caps, Daven attenuators, etc., etc. design from which it was derived. 
  
 I encourage everyone to build Mainline stock and listen to it for a good long while before cobbling it up. It's a mature design with very well built iron rather than a simple budget circuit like the Crack. If you need to make your mark on it - which I can totally relate to or I would never have started Bottlehead - I would suggest putting the energy into the cosmetics. 
  
 If the motivation for doing a kit is to customize every part, start with a Crack. The mods that have been done are manifold and range from ridiculous to sublime. One can be entertained for quite a while just exploring the modification archive.


----------



## JamieMcC

doc b. said:


> That Sowter description says it's for cathode followers, implying a very low primary impedance. I don't see the model listed at the link, but Mainline does not use a CF. If you use a TL404 - though it is very good, you will forfeit the balanced output as it is not a transformer but rather an autoformer. The one guy I know of who has used them I think did not try the stock ones first so he doesn't know if the setup is better or worse than stock (an unfortunately too common condition with a lot of modders). My experience is that the Mainline sounded better in some ways than the big TL404, dual mono, custom caps, Daven attenuators, etc., etc. design from which it was derived.
> 
> I encourage everyone to build Mainline stock and listen to it for a good long while before cobbling it up. It's a mature design with very well built iron rather than a simple budget circuit like the Crack. If you need to make your mark on it - which I can totally relate to or I would never have started Bottlehead - I would suggest putting the energy into the cosmetics.
> 
> If the motivation for doing a kit is to customize every part, start with a Crack. The mods that have been done are manifold and range from ridiculous to sublime. One can be entertained for quite a while just exploring the modification archive.


 
  
 Thanks for the clarification Doc that's handy to know. I remember reading a post of yours pre Mainline that went something along the lines of the hours of evaluation as you also wanted the Mainline to be a reference tool for your own work, editing and evaluating it might have been a tape project post, that reference to being a tool for critical listening has always inspired me about the Mainlines performance.


----------



## NightFlight

Yeah... I'm going to leave the Dayton caps in for a while I think. Maybe try swapping out the Cat5 with alternately selected teflon coated copper.  Maybe some BMF 14.7K resistors. Maybe some time down the road for me.
  
 I just have to break the "Wow this is great! I must make it better!" loop.


----------



## JamieMcC

Woohoo I got round to making  a start on my Mainline today gluing up the enclosure and adding a cosmetic carbon veneer to the top plate.


----------



## skeptic

jamiemcc said:


> Woohoo I got round to making  a start on my Mainline today gluing up the enclosure and adding a cosmetic carbon veneer to the top plate.


 
  
 Awesome!  Looking forward to seeing the glamour shots!


----------



## smitty1110

Did any infromation get released about that amp that @Doc B. teased us with late last week?


----------



## rbc3

I finished my Mainline build.  I did the resistance and voltage checks, plugged it in to my Schiit Bifrost Uber and it worked without issue!  It's completely stock other than the paint and wood varnish which you can see from my previous post earlier in this forum (reposted below).  I did no parts burn in before the build, so my first impressions are all on listening to the amp within hours of powering it up for the first time.  I have a Schiit Lyr (hybrid tube / solid state) and Schiit Valhalla (all tube OTL) to compare to, both with many hours of listening and high end NOS tubes from the 60's and 70's.  I plugged everything in and listened to high res audio from my Mac through USB to the Schiit Bifrost Uber.
  

  
  
  
  
 First off, my impressions are that the Mainline sounds AMAZING with all my headphones: AKG K1000, Audeze LCD-2.2 (non Fazor), Hifiman HE-500, Sennhiser HD 650, Beyerdynamic DT770 600 ohm (with LCD cable mod), AKG K553 Pro, Audio Technica ATH-m50.
  
 Overall, when compared to my two other amps the Mainline EASILY bests them.  An interesting observation is that when I listen to each of my cans through the two Schiit amps, I can distinctly hear the differences between the headphones.  On the Lyr the LCD-2.2 is the leader, but the HE-500 is also good with diminishing returns on HD 650, DT770 on down the line with the K1K sounding the worst.  The Valhalla favors the HD 650 and DT770 with the K1K sounding better than on the Lyr so long as you don't mind having little or no bass.  The LCD sound OK, and the HE-500, K553, and m50 all don't work well with it.
  
 The Mainline on the other hand, made every headphone I own sound noticeably better and the differences between the headphones on the Mainline narrowed.  Said another way, each headphone sounds so much better on the Mainline that they all sound really great and starts to level the playing field of the cans.  That isn't to say that it makes every headphone sound the same.  There are differences, but just not as dramatic as on the other two amps.  It doesn't favor low impedance cans vs. high impedance cans.  For example I can't listen to the HE-500 on the Valhalla because it is way too murky and the bass just flabby and horrible.
  
 I'll go through each headphone and give my impressions in order of my preference.  K1K is only at the top because of my excitement to have a headphone amp that can finally drive them well.
  
 AKG K1000
 I know Doc B has publicly stated that the Mainline wasn't intended to drive the K1K, however based on the headphone amps I have it is the clear winner by a long shot.  The Lyr has enough power to drive the K1K, but I find that it is too crisp and analytic.  The bass is decent on the Lyr, but the high end is so sharp that I can't listen for long without feeling like I can't take it anymore, not more than several tracks.  The Valhalla with K1K is more smooth but it has almost no bass, one of the main criticisms of the K1K.  The Mainline smooths the treble out on the K1K and delivers the most bass that I've heard out of them.  I could listen for hours without feeling fatigue and the Mainline really draws out the mids.  Vocals sound so real and the overall sound stage is otherworldly (the strength of K1K) so much that I truly feel like music is being performed in the room for me.  I do have to crank the volume to near max, but it gets plenty loud on all recordings without distortion or noise floor.  Just in case people don't know, the K1K comes standard with a non-removable balanced cable.  I listened in balanced mode with the Mainline set to high impedance.
  
 Audeze LCD-2.2 (non Fazor)
 So far my favorite pairing.  My favorite setup prior to Mainline with LCD was my Lyr and a pair of 60s Amperex Orange Globe tubes.  The Mainline brings out so much more in the LCD, the bass is stronger and more tight but not overly strong, just a great attack and decay.  The mids and treble are more smooth and the sound stage opens up even more than on the Lyr.  I listened with a balanced cable in balanced mode and the Mainline set to high impedance, interestingly enough.  The sound stage opened just a tad more on high impedance and the bass had a touch more power.  The Valhalla does a decent job with the LCD, but wow, the Mainline has so much more of everything in comparison.
  
 Hifiman HE-500
 Very close in sound to the LCDs but with slightly less sound stage, slightly brighter highs, and a little less bass.  Used a balanced cable and listened in balanced mode on the Mainline.  With HE-500, the impedance switch didn't make much of a difference in the sound. Also the Mainline didn't improve on the sound quality as much over the Lyr as with other cans.  In comparison, the Lyr likes the HE-500 and does a really great job with them, probably due to the power output.  If I didn't have the LCDs to compare with, I'd love these cans with both the Lyr and the Mainline.  But when compared to the improved sound stage and wonderful bass of the LCD, they get beaten out.  HE-500 with the Valhalla sounds awful.  The bass is, well... sad.
  
 Sennheiser HD-650
 I thought the Mainline was going to have a hard time besting the Valhalla with some ealy 70's Russian tubes I have for it.  The bass on the Mainline is improved, stronger and more tight.  The mids and sound stage open up a little more than on the Valhalla.  And I feel like I hear more details.  The only complaint is that I start to hear what people call the 650 veil on the Mainline.  It's almost as if the sound is so smooth it starts to feel too soft.  Maybe it's the treble in the very high register doesn't quite match the mid and low end.  I only have a single ended cable so I didn't listen in balanced mode and switching to high impedance was clearly better on the Mainline.  The Valhalla on the 650 is a great pairing, but again the Mainline outshines.  If you're OK with the smoother sound and slight veil, then this is a superb pairing.  I didn't get to jazz, but I believe this match would excel with jazz.  Lyr does a fine job with 650, but no comparison to Valhalla or Mainline.
  
 Beyerdynamic DT770 600 ohm
 WHOA the bass!  I thought the bass was strong with the Valhalla but Mainline just thundered with these cans and not in a bad way.  It sounded good and tight, not rumbly or flabby in any way.  Of course with closed cans the sound stage can't compare with open cans but pretty darn good for .  But the sound quality and details in the treble and mids are fantastic.  I have modded my DT770 to work with an Audeze LCD balanced cable (same Tiny XLR jacks as LCD), so I listened in balanced mode and switched to high impedance.  Again the 770 with Valhalla was a great paring, but the Mainline brings so much power and clarity to these cans, that they win the award for most improved.  If you don't like strong bass then this wouldn't be a paring for you.  The Lyr also does a decent job with the 770 but it is beaten by Valhalla and walloped by Mainline.
  
 AKG K553 Pro
 I know it's a little ridiculous to pair a $130 (Massdrop price) pair of headphones with a $1200 amp (not including cost to build bringing it to more like $2K+), but I bought them for portable use so I thought I'd try them out with the Mainline.  They sound really good with the Mainline.  The're not overly bright as some people have stated on the K553 head-fi forum.  For closed cans they beat the DT770 in sound stage.  Theres a little upper mid range crackling on lower volume levels.  The bass is good, not as strong as the DT770 (which is mind blowingly powerful) and slightly flabby.  The Mainline makes these cans sound like headphones on par with DT770 at 1/2 the cost and brings them close to HD 650 at 1/3 the cost.  These are also not broken in with only around 10 hours of use since new.  Listening in single ended and low impedance modes on the Mainline.  When compared to the Lyr, the bass is better.  On the Lyr the bass is very bloomy and mids are not as crisp and clear.  The treble on the Lyr seems to work well with the K553, but really these sound like average cans with the Lyr whereas the Mainline brings out a lot in the quality of sound.
  
 Audio Techica ATH-m50
 These are my previous portable phones that are now replaced by the K553s.  A great set of headphones and also not up to par for the Mainline.  Once again though the Mainline brings out the best of these cans.  The bass is a touch bloomy like the sound of the K553 with the Lyr.  The mids and sound stage are pretty good though.  Like the K553 I am listening on single ended and low impedance settings.  On the Lyr as a comparison these cans really don't sound particularly special.  I am hearing some slight crunchyness in the upper mids and the bass again is bloomy and loose.  The mid range is rather thin and flabby and there is no sound stage at all.  Going back to the Mainline, they sound much bigger and more detailed, especially meaty in the mid range.
  
 AIAIAI TMA-1
 "Oh where did these come from?" you ask.  I threw them in for S&G.  I actually don't think of these as serious headphones because I use them as a phone headset.  On the Mainline, single ended and low impedance, they are seriously veiled.  Almost a wash of mid range with very little crisp upper end and not a whole lot of deep rich bass.  Yep, leave them as a phone headset...
  
 I played around a lot with balanced vs. unbalanced and the impedance switch. For the high impedance cans: K1K, DT770, and HD 650, the high impedance setting is a must in terms of opening up sound stage and tightening up bass.  The high impedance setting also improved the LCDs in the same way, but not as severe.  The HE-500 and lower impedance cans didn't seem to make a difference which setting the impedance switch was on.  Balanced mode and balanced cables gave the cans a little more gain, but didn't seem to change the quality or characteristic of sound in any way.
  
 I have to say, I'm extremely happy with this amp.  It was a joy to build and in the end I have my end game headphone amp that seems to drive everything I can throw at it.  The only headphone that I imagine a purpose built amp could benefit from is the AKG K1000.  All my other headphones excel when driven by the Mainline.  At this point I'm seriously considering selling the Lyr and the HE-500.  The Mainline is far superior than the Lyr in every aspect.  The Valhalla can do a really great job wtih the HD 650 and DT770 600 ohm, so I'll keep that for office listening.  Same story with the HE-500.  The Mainline plus LCD is just that much more everything.  So there's no use for an another planar magnetic that is so similar.  My favorite setup that I'll be doing a lot of listening on is the LCD 2.2 with the Mainline.  What a match!  With all the rave reviews of HD 800 and Mainline, I'm super tempted!
  
 -Robert


----------



## Doc B.

Wow, thank you for all of that work! You have me smiling, because I just checked out a newly purchased pair of K1Ks this afternoon, and my Mainline was handy so I used it. It does indeed work pretty well. I was also running the levels pretty high, maybe one or two clicks down from max, high impedance setting and balanced output, while being fed from a Bottlehead DAC. We also have a new custom amp that has been designed with the K1K in mind, though it works with all sorts of cans too.


----------



## skeptic

Congrats on completing your build rbc, and thanks for sharing the great write up!


----------



## NightFlight

Great stuff. Nice breakdown!  I only have the one headphone, but I have to say... wait until around the 60hr break-in mark. I found a continual subtle/subjective improvement in total coherence from 60 right up to the 100hr mark. Take that last bit with a grain of salt I guess.  But for me, the 60hr mark is where it got interesting.
  
 When checked at 100hrs I found had to re-bias once the tubes started to show break-in.  Obviously you must bias when completed the build as directed by the manual.  But correct me if I'm wrong here, I found that subsequent biasing should be done while amp is up to full temperature.  My PT5 hitting just around 55oC is an indicator of this for me. I'll be checking bias voltage again at the 200hr mark.
  
 Also took the opportunity to go over everything with some +2.50 glasses on. I think I nipped a cold solder joint in the PS before it became an issue = tears averted.


----------



## Loquah

Nice write-up, @rbc3. Glad to hear you're enjoying the Mainline as much as the rest of us.
  
 So, what's the first upgrade cap you're going to install?...
  
  
 ...kidding...
  
  
 ...or am I?


----------



## rbc3

I'm doing burn in now by running it off of an old Android phone on infinite loop and driving the AKG K553 Pro which also need some burn in time.  I've read on the BH forums that caps need around 100 hours of burn in.  The nice thing about the K553 is that I can flatten them with the drivers down on a table so they don't make a lot of noise.  I'll run them for the rest of the week and see how things change (hopefully improve) this weekend.  I'm already so impressed with this amp that I don't think I'll need to try out different caps for some time.  If anything, I might some day try some different parafeed coupling caps.  And I've read that there might not be much benefit to tube rolling. There aren't a lot of choices in 6C45PI tubes.
  
 If there's one thing I would want anyone to take away from my impressions it's the importance of the amp in the sound quality.  The HD 650, HE-500, and LCD-2.2 all sound so good on the Mainline that any of them would suffice for a long time.  Switching amps with a single set of cans is a much greater difference and variation in sound.  This leads me to believe that money is well spent on spending more on the amp and less  on the cans.  The HD 650 with the Mainline would be anything I'd ever need and in fact the HD 650 are so comfortable that I can spend many hours wearing them without taking a break.  The LCD are better but not so dramatically better to warrant twice the price when heard through the Mainline and the comfort of heavy cans and the heat from the leather pads means I can only wear them for an hour or two.
  
 In other words.  Save your money spending time and effort finding the right amp to pair with your cans and splurge on the Mainline.  Based on my experience, it'll sound amazing with your existing cans.  Plus it's enjoyable and not complicated to build.  The instructions are suuuuper easy to follow.
  
 -Robert


----------



## JamieMcC

Robert, congratulations on your Mainline build and for the detailed impressions of your cans with it. I think that's going to prove very helpful for anyone who might be considering the Mainline in the future.


----------



## Loquah

Just had a thought to add the great comparisons and comments from @bigfatpaulie and @rbc3 to the first post of the thread - it's becoming a great reference tool so thank to everyone on here for contributing and adding so much additional content!


----------



## DDDamian

loquah said:


> Just had a thought to add the great comparisons and comments from @bigfatpaulie
> and @rbc3
> to the first post of the thread - it's becoming a great reference tool so thank to everyone on here for contributing and adding so much additional content!




Reading your original write-ups led me to purchase a hopped-up Crack and a stock S.E.X. in the same week lol. One day the Mainline will be mine....

Great thread guys - excellent posts and reviews.


----------



## Loquah

Please apologise to your wallet for me


----------



## rbc3

The guy I bought my AKG K1000 from demo'd them on a S.E.X. for me plugged in to the speaker binding posts with the AKG supplied adapter wired to some Monster banana plugs. I'm not sure what impedance the OT was tapped at.  It sounded really good.  I bought them...  I remember the bass being a little on the light side.  Vocals sounded fantastic though!  I bet it's a great amp for planar magnetic cans too.
  
 My next Bottlehead kit is a Stereomour 2A3 with the impedance switch mod (same one as the S.E.X) which I plan to try out with the K1K connected to the speaker binding posts.  I have a good feeling...
  
 -Robert


----------



## DDDamian

loquah said:


> Please apologise to your wallet for me


 
 The wallet forgives - until I follow your Mainline recommendation  The wife, however is PO'd. If it wasn't for the adorable avatar..... 
  
@rbc3 - the S.E.X is definitely bass-shy, I just did the C4S last week and it's helped a bit. That said, it has a very open, airy, spacious feel with or without. I use it to drive some HE-400 planars among other cans, and it does sound wonderful if I tame the treble a touch (spike at 9kHz with the HE-400). Those cans really eat current to get to higher volumes, and the S.E.X. delivers.


----------



## JamieMcC

Mainline progress pic starting to come together now and although I was hopeless at catching it with the camera there is a tiny amount of deep blue metal flake in the clear. Not enough to be noticed at first glance but enough to catch your eye with a little sparkle as your angle of view changes.


----------



## Loquah

Very jealous of that carbon fibre!!


----------



## Old Nuke

Love the carbon fiber.  I'm one of the few that have the Mainline with TL-404's,( I think) don't know if I'm the one Doc B referenced but I spent less than a day listening to the stock Mainline before putting in the new OPT's.  Even though that's against common convention I don't regret it at all, I purchased the Mainline as a home for the TL-404's, I was perfectly happy with my modded Crack until the first track played.  Now it' in a box in the garage...  Now I'm trying to settle on a cap and headphone combo that will be the final mods.  Currently my favorite is a 3.3uF Mundorf with HD-650's (HD-600 shell with 650 drivers).  The 650's are getting more playing time than my 800's, but only because I also game with them on and I can't stomach putting the 800's thru any game sound tracks.  Going to try a pair of planar's  and some closed backs next with 3.3, 4.7, 6.8 and 8.2uF caps next.


----------



## JamieMcC

old nuke said:


> Love the carbon fiber.  I'm one of the few that have the Mainline with TL-404's,( I think) don't know if I'm the one Doc B referenced but I spent less than a day listening to the stock Mainline before putting in the new OPT's.  Even though that's against common convention I don't regret it at all, I purchased the Mainline as a home for the TL-404's, I was perfectly happy with my modded Crack until the first track played.  Now it' in a box in the garage...  Now I'm trying to settle on a cap and headphone combo that will be the final mods.  Currently my favorite is a 3.3uF Mundorf with HD-650's (HD-600 shell with 650 drivers).  The 650's are getting more playing time than my 800's, but only because I also game with them on and I can't stomach putting the 800's thru any game sound tracks.  Going to try a pair of planar's  and some closed backs next with 3.3, 4.7, 6.8 and 8.2uF caps next.


 
  
 Hey Old Nuke I noticed that was your first post here, so welcome to Headfi.
 Its nice to hear from someone who has fitted those TL-404''s to  a Mainline, they are pretty scarce over the UK side of the pond.
 I'm still getting used to my HD800's and have only had them a couple of weeks now.  The T1's quickly ousted my HD650 about 18 months ago but the HD800 and T1 I find are quiet close in their performance but each has a different way with its presentation. So am looking forward to seeing how they sound with the Mainline and plan to make a start fitting out the top plate later today.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Hey Old Nuke I noticed that was your first post here, so welcome to Headfi.
> Its nice to hear from someone who has fitted those TL-404''s to  a Mainline, they are pretty scarce over the UK side of the pond.
> I'm still getting used to my HD800's and have only had them a couple of weeks now.  The T1's quickly ousted my HD650 about 18 months ago but the HD800 and T1 I find are quiet close in their performance but each has a different way with its presentation. So am looking forward to seeing how they sound with the Mainline and plan to make a start fitting out the top plate later today.


 
  
 I'm looking forward to seeing how the T1s fair compared to the HD800s for you once the Mainline's up and running, Jamie. I kept the T1s for a few weeks, but more and more found the HD800s were just better in every way with the Mainline. Of course, source components and personal preferences play into it as well though...


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing how the T1s fair compared to the HD800s for you once the Mainline's up and running, Jamie. I kept the T1s for a few weeks, but more and more found the HD800s were just better in every way with the Mainline. Of course, source components and personal preferences play into it as well though...


 
  
 Totally agree my source is next on the list for upgrading when spare funds allow been drooling over Bottlehead, Chord, Meridian and Lampizator dac offering recently.
  
 While I was tinkering with the Mainline carbon top plate I knocked up a new diy stand for the hd800 with a bit of the blue metal flake to match its rather solid and
  weighs in at 3kg! The paint is so fresh I haven't dared cut it flat it back yet for a polish.  I thought its better off curing fully at home where I can keep a eye on it


----------



## Loquah

Wow. Looks beautiful! Great work.


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Wow. Looks beautiful! Great work.


 
  
 Thanks Lachlan I surprised myself as had never used the pearl or metal flake products before. I plan to make a few more and experiment with some different hot rod style finishes will post a pic or two on how they turn out.
  
 Mainline progress pic and time for a beer.
  
 I have had a very enjoyable time fitting out the top plate and stuffing the pcb boards today I've not kept a accurate track or the time taken but something around a leisurely 5 or 6 hours in total over three sittings with a few chores and dinner in between sessions. The instructions are excellent again and so far have been easy to follow. I will make a start on the hooking up tomorrow.
 Paul I was thinking of you when the very first thing I did was to put my fuse in the IEC module before inserting it in the top plate


----------



## skeptic

jamiemcc said:


> Mainline progress pic and time for a beer.


 
  
 That's a well earned beer!  Both the stand and amp are looking great


----------



## JamieMcC

Thanks for the encouragement guys.
 I managed to get a few hours inthis morning and few again later this evening but lots of interruptions and tired eyes have brought progress to halt for today.
 A early morning start on the heater section before the rest of the family is up seems a good idea for tomorrow.


----------



## JamieMcC

Well I am up and running and over the moon. I have been glued to it for most of the evening and envisage it being a late night.
  
 Special thanks also to Lachlan, Skeptic and Paul for their encouragement and superb reviews of the Mainline and of coarse Doc and the Bottlehead team for doing such a great job again.
  
 Much to my surprise all the resistance checks and voltage checks where bang on the money and the only thing that required redoing was I had fixed in one of the head outs with the locking release button facing forward and only noticed when it came to hooking up as the orientation did not match with the wiring instructions it only took a couple of minutes to re orientate and other than that it the build went like a dream with absolutely no problems what so ever.
  
 Build time for hooking up ran around 16-18 hours in total in several sessions over three days. I am a bit dyslexic and I must have re-read each step at least four times or more and ohm'd out every resistor my illuminated magnifying glass also had a good work out.
  
 There was a little head scratching at the end as I had two 100K  2W resistors and a one 1μF 50V capacitor left in the parts box but after a bit of searching through the manual and comparing with the parts list they turned out to be surplus phew! 
  
 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 guys


----------



## Bwaze

Eagerly awaiting comparison to stock and modded Crack and how the HD800 and T1 pair with both!


----------



## Loquah

It looks beautiful, Jamie!
  
 Can't wait to read your impressions


----------



## skeptic

jamiemcc said:


> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cheers to you and congrats on your beautiful new amp!  Headphone audio really doesn't get any better to my ears than the mainline and hd800's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Curiously, are you are going to put CF on the tube shields too/paint them or just leave them bare?


----------



## Doc B.

I call this image 
  
 Embarrassment of Riches


----------



## Walderstorn

You should be ashamed from putting up that image


----------



## Doc B.

Not ashamed at all. One pair is my own, one pair belongs to my friend Bob, and one pair is delegated to be offered with our new Neothoriator headphone amp. Serial numbers are in the 3000, 5000 and 10000 ranges. We listened on a couple of different amps and really couldn't hear any differences between them besides those that were created when the speakers were angled differently, except that the low serial # pair _might_ have been ever so slightly more sensitive.


----------



## Walderstorn

2 bad one of them wasnt mine eheh


----------



## NightFlight

I'll post pics soon. I finally just got to pulling myself away from the the Mainline long enough to stain the box. That's what you get for doing things out of order.  Plus, it was really too cold up here to work in an unheated garage.. only just  a week ago it was still snowing.


----------



## JamieMcC

bwaze said:


> Eagerly awaiting comparison to stock and modded Crack and how the HD800 and T1 pair with both!


 
  
 Even with a limited amount of listening its easy to say that Mainline Rules the roost. Saying that I do still have a soft spot for the hot rodded Crack GEC brown base and T1 they have great synergy together and are a very enjoyable combination but they do technically fall someway short of the Mainlines abilities. 
  


loquah said:


> It looks beautiful, Jamie!
> 
> Can't wait to read your impressions


 
  
 Gosh where to start and how could I even add anything to yours Skeptics and Pauls impressions. I will think about it for the next week or two while its burning in.
  
  


skeptic said:


> Cheers to you and congrats on your beautiful new amp!  Headphone audio really doesn't get any better to my ears than the mainline and hd800's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, with the shields I do have some carbon tube which I am hoping might fit in the workshop. If not they will get painted and the next time I do some carbon work will make something up if time allows.


----------



## NightFlight

Re Skeptics and Pauls impressions... I know... I think they said it all. I have a couple things to add, but... really.
  
 Jamie, I assume I don't have say anything about turning your tube shields into thermal insulators. Ooops I just did. Black ones might be nice in my layout. Anyone know where to find them?


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> Re Skeptics and Pauls impressions... I know... I think they said it all. I have a couple things to add, but... really.
> 
> Jamie, I assume I don't have say anything about turning your tube shields into thermal insulators. Ooops I just did. Black ones might be nice in my layout. Anyone know where to find them?


 
  
 Well I suspect paint will be the easiest option for the shields but I have been running without them yesterday and today and am quiet partial to seeing a little bit of glow of a evening Im not getting any RF interference or if I am I cant tell.
  
 I will try and add a few impressions as well later. But for now will just mention the amp seems to be noticeably improving each time I come back to have listen and think I will let it run 24/7 for the next few days.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Well I suspect paint will be the easiest option for the shields but I have been running without them yesterday and today and am quiet partial to seeing a little bit of glow of a evening Im not getting any RF interference or if I am I cant tell.
> 
> I will try and add a few impressions as well later. But for now will just mention *the amp seems to be noticeably improving each time I come back to have listen* and think I will let it run 24/7 for the next few days.


 
  
 No, Jamie, that's just you falling in love...


----------



## A2029

jamiemcc said:


> Well I suspect paint will be the easiest option for the shields but I have been running without them yesterday and today and am quiet partial to seeing a little bit of glow of a evening Im not getting any RF interference or if I am I cant tell.


 
  
 I'm in a pretty RF heavy environment, I wanted to make sure that there would be no high freq junk getting to my 6C45 tubes via pickup in wires (this may be a bit overkill):
  

  
  
  

  
 P.S. those are ferrite cores under the shrink wrap, ferrite material types 43 and 61.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

You guys are making me blush!
  
 I just wrote a few silly things that I heard, Skeptic and Loquah, however, are the the real deal.
  
@Loquah Thank you for adding me to your index.  I'm touched and flattered!  
  
@JamieMcC Amazing build!!  How are you enjoying the HD800's?  Livit 12 is one of my preferred audio accessories as well


----------



## Doc B.

I would have tried the amp stock before adding the ferrites. They can affect the sound, in a bad way. That's why we use grid and plate stoppers to block RFI. My advice is don't add stuff until you know you need to add stuff.


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> @JamieMcC Amazing build!!  How are you enjoying the HD800's?


 
  
 Thanks 
  
 Well put it this way I have sacrificed any self control I possessed and am guilty of gushing somewhat in my first go at posting some initial impressions it just had to be done I couldn't help myself!
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/bottlehead-mainline/reviews/13080


----------



## Doc B.

Wow, I had not read yours nor Lachlan's review before. Thank you so much! Mainline is kind of special to me because it is a design that is a lot more mine than some of our other products. The guys (Peej and Peebs) still do the number crunching and the layout (thankfully, had my fill of that stuff!) but this one was pretty much based upon my basic design choices for a premium kit, ideas taken from an amp PJ and I co-designed and I then built for myself many years ago.


----------



## A2029

doc b. said:


> I would have tried the amp stock before adding the ferrites. They can affect the sound, in a bad way. That's why we use grid and plate stoppers to block RFI. My advice is don't add stuff until you know you need to add stuff.


 
  
 I did build the amp stock first. Sound when stock and with the ferrites sounds the same; extremely fast and detailed, yet smooth/liquid treble and midrange. Extended and accurate bass. "Organic" and "silky" midrange.

 The material of the ferrites that I used are mainly only resistive in frequency ranges greater than 20 Mhz; they should offer no resistance to audible frequency range signals.


----------



## Doc B.

If you tried it stock and they didn't hurt the sound when added, then well done. My experience with ferrites has been different, but you did actually do the test with and without and that's what I was getting on about. Too many times I see guys just throwing things in without actually listening first.


----------



## NightFlight

doc b. said:


> If you tried it stock and they didn't hurt the sound when added, then well done. My experience with ferrites has been different, but you did actually do the test with and without and that's what I was getting on about. Too many times I see guys just throwing things in without actually listening first.


 
  
 I have to pitch in and second this guys. The stock configuration is pretty good and worth putting any preconceptions of what should be done on hold.  I keep thinking about the parafeed caps, but thus far the Mainline has not begged any change other than cosmetic - not saying the stock look is bad either.


----------



## Loquah

Yes, it's regularly advised on the Bottlehead Forum to build stock and then modify and it's such a better approach. It's easier to troubleshoot a stock build, you can hear how it should sound, and you can enjoy hearing exactly what differences your mods make (for better or worse).

I'm still thankful for that advice when I started out with my first build on the Crack.


----------



## JamieMcC

Out of curiosity and as I had a suitable cable I tried putting the Mainline in front of my Sex it gave some interesting results. A nice little boost to the Sex's midrange and bass but some of the Mainlines micro detailing gets lost when listening with headphones and I definitely prefer the Mainline on its own.  
  
 The main driver for doing this was I wanted to get the Sex amp and back in action running my speakers and the head out to rca splitter cable I brought a while back to try with the Crack seemed the easiest solution.  I have only been  listening for a couple of hours to the Sex amp driving speakers this way with the Mainline in front and am quiet pleased with the results the bonus is it also means I don't need to keep messing about plugging and unplugging my rca connectors just a headphone jack. I was missing my tunes on the speakers but not any more.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Out of curiosity and as I had a suitable cable I tried putting the Mainline in front of my Sex it gave some interesting results. A nice little boost to the Sex's midrange and bass but some of the Mainlines micro detailing gets lost when listening with headphones and I definitely prefer the Mainline on its own.
> 
> The main driver for doing this was I wanted to get the Sex amp and back in action running my speakers and the head out to rca splitter cable I brought a while back to try with the Crack seemed the easiest solution.  I have only been  listening for a couple of hours to the Sex amp driving speakers this way with the Mainline in front and am quiet pleased with the results the bonus is it also means I don't need to keep messing about plugging and unplugging my rca connectors just a headphone jack. I was missing my tunes on the speakers but not any more.


 
  
 Quick Doc, that's got to be a new product line - the Mainline preamp!


----------



## Armaegis

I've lined the inside of the case with foil tape before. Not sure if that really reduces RFI (the bottom is still exposed after all), but it couldn't hurt right?


----------



## Doc B.

Make sure that foil touches the chassis plate or you're making an antenna rather than a shield. Covering the opening as well would create more of a shield, but it would need to be well ventilated. 
  
 IME it's difficult to say exactly where and when this kind of shielding makes a difference short of implementing it and taking some measurements. We implement other things like shielded cable, internal transformer shields and grid stoppers that deal with interference and so I don't imagine that you would get that much change by adding the foil to the base.


----------



## Armaegis

Oh yes, I made sure to fold some foil up into the groove where the plate sits so it makes contact all around. It may or may not do anything, but foil tape is cheap from the hardware store and it's easy to do. Copper foil is expensive though.


----------



## skeptic

I've been totally slammed at work, and am finally catching up with the thread. Wonderful review Jamie - I really enjoyed reading it and think you did a beautiful job of describing the many qualities that make the mainline so special. 

Since I missed the boat on the bh dac, I ended up ordering a yggy recently, and feeding the mainline with a true high quality source has only raised my esteem for this amp - which continues to leave me wanting for nothing with hd800s a year and a half after completing my build. Also, a belated thank you for the kind words about my early impression posts. I feel honored to be mentioned alongside highly skilled listeners and reviewers like Loquah, Paulie and Jamie. 

As an aside, I've been reading headfi on a daily basis for a lot of years now, probably too many, and this continues to be my absolute favorite thread. Hats off to Loquah, Doc and everyone else who has contributed, kept this discussion going in the right direction and made it feel like a home of sorts for so long. The sense of community among bottlehead fans, and resulting threads, are really unique when compared to headfi as a whole. This has been brought into sharp focus for me following the yggy threads recently - where the noise has totally drowned the signal and I have added more names to my ignore list in 7 days than I had in total in 7 years. Good grief.


----------



## Doc B.

FWIW the DAC boat has lunched again...


----------



## grausch

jamiemcc said:


> I will try and add a few impressions as well later. But for now will just mention the amp seems to be noticeably improving each time I come back to have listen and think I will let it run 24/7 for the next few days.


 
  
 Jamie, care to update us on your impressions? I know it may not be easy to describe, but how would you rate the Mainline vs your Carbon Crack?


----------



## JamieMcC

grausch said:


> Jamie, care to update us on your impressions? I know it may not be easy to describe, but how would you rate the Mainline vs your Carbon Crack?


 
  
 I was really happy with how the Carbon Crack sounded but the Mainline really offers a significantly higher level of performance, if you are able to push the boat out then just go for it and don't look back.
  
 Loquah really has covered all the bases in his excellent review at the start of this thread.
  
 The Crack still offers amazing value and a hell of a lot of fun is to be had experimenting with hot rodding and I will definitely be building more Cracks in the future for the fun of it.


----------



## grausch

jamiemcc said:


> The Crack still offers amazing value and a hell of a lot of fun is to be had experimenting with hot rodding and I will definitely be building more Cracks in the future for the fun of it.


 
 It may sound funny, but I think I am having more fun modding my Crack than actually listening to it. The Stereomour and Orcas get loads of use, but the Crack ends up on the workbench quite frequently.
  
 Will get a Mainline at some point, but I have very little time to listen with headphones on. That's why the S&O combo gets that much more playtime.


----------



## JamieMcC

grausch said:


> It may sound funny, but I think I am having more fun modding my Crack than actually listening to it. The Stereomour and Orcas get loads of use, but the Crack ends up on the workbench quite frequently.
> 
> Will get a Mainline at some point, but I have very little time to listen with headphones on. That's why the S&O combo gets that much more playtime.


 
  
 The majority of my headfi listening is done later in the evenings and my Sex is put to work driving speakers most days, I am really liking the results of using the Mainline up front to feed it.  Perhaps I should start thinking about pencilling in a Stereomour build for next year....


----------



## grausch

jamiemcc said:


> The majority of my headfi listening is done later in the evenings and my Sex is put to work driving speakers most days, I am really liking the results of using the Mainline up front to feed it.  Perhaps I should start thinking about pencilling in a Stereomour build for next year....


 
 I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the Stereomour. Don't know how it will pair with your Fonkens, but I like it with the Orcas.
  
 I should probably pencil in some alone time at night for listening to the Crack and DT 770s...


----------



## NightFlight

jamiemcc said:


> I was really happy with how the Carbon Crack sounded but the Mainline really offers a significantly higher level of performance, if you are able to push the boat out then just go for it and don't look back.
> 
> Loquah really has covered all the bases in his excellent review at the start of this thread.
> 
> The Crack still offers amazing value and a hell of a lot of fun is to be had experimenting with hot rodding and I will definitely be building more Cracks in the future for the fun of it.


 
  
 I just recently went back to the crack for a sanity check. The Crack was surprisingly good. It's very musical and easy to really grove in. Repeating the same track back on the Mainline is a bit of a shock. The reveal on the same track is an eye (ear) opener each time if you go back and forth. The mainline just has significantly more detail in every respect. It _seems_ a bit light in the bottom end by comparison, at least with the tubes that I'm using on my crack, but it digs way down there at the same time. IMHO The 6C45p sound does describe the Mainline which is liquid midrange centric.


----------



## JamieMcC

Well in the end resistance was futile and I easily succumbed to temptation and installed the RTI Teflon output capacitors which originally were purchased well over a year ago. Its extremely satisfying to eventually find them such a worthy home (thanks to Skeptic for the heads up on their suitability for the Mainline)


----------



## Loquah

Looks snug!

How have they altered the sound (realising it might be early days still)?


----------



## skeptic

jamiemcc said:


> Well in the end resistance was futile and I easily succumbed to temptation and installed the RTI Teflon output capacitors which originally were purchased well over a year ago. Its extremely satisfying to eventually find them such a worthy home (thanks to Skeptic for the heads up on their suitability for the Mainline)


 
  
 Thank you for alerting me to the existence of the RTI's in the first place!  Totally agree that it is hard to conceive of a better home for them than the mainline given their specs


----------



## NightFlight

I can't remember if it was deemed value purchase but my wallet jumped out and apparently bought a pair of the EH branded 6C45pi gold pinned off the Woo site today.  Some days, I swear... the damn mouse is more like a Ouija plachette.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'll report back if they provide any sort of value add in the Mainline. Switch401 said he was going to report back on Bottlehead but never did.


----------



## NightFlight

skeptic said:


> Thank you for alerting me to the existence of the RTI's in the first place!  Totally agree that it is hard to conceive of a better home for them than the mainline given their specs


 
  
 Is that what you've got in there?


----------



## Loquah

nightflight said:


> I can't remember if it was deemed value purchase but my wallet jumped out and apparently bought a pair of the EH branded 6C45pi gold pinned off the Woo site today.  Some days, I swear... the damn mouse is more like a Ouija plachette.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a pair of EH 6C45pi and they might be slightly smoother sounding than the supplied tubes, but it's so close as to be insignificant in the scheme of things. Certainly nothing like the range of variations possible with Crack tube-rolling


----------



## A2029

nightflight said:


> I can't remember if it was deemed value purchase but my wallet jumped out and apparently bought a pair of the EH branded 6C45pi gold pinned off the Woo site today.  Some days, I swear... the damn mouse is more like a Ouija plachette.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did indeed report back on Bottlehead's webpage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a copy and paste of the report:

 "I recently did some tube rolling (albeit slow tube rolling, seeing as I had to re-adjust the bias each time I swapped tubes) with the Sovtek, Reflector and EH tubes that I have.
 To be honest, not too much difference between the three of them, but here are some slight things I THINK I may be hearing when comparing the 6C45 tubes I have in my possession:
 Sovtek - Most grainy treble out of the three (but this could potentially be due to these tubes having the least run-time). I did burn them in for over 100 hours when I got them. Seems to be more extended up top (treble) than the Reflector tubes, but again this may be due to the slightly less smooth treble I'm hearing with these tubes.
 Reflector - Most mid-centric sound out of the three tubes. Smooth treble. My preferred tubes to use with HD800's listening to most of my music collection except for really well recorded classical, instrumental, etc.
 Electro-Harmonix - Less mids than the Reflector tubes. More extended up top and down below. Treble just as smooth as Reflector. I like using these tubes when listening to the best recording in my collection, especially for classical music where the extension up top and down below is a bonus.

 If I had to stick to just one brand/make of 6C45's to keep in my Mainline long-term it would be the Reflectors for sure.

 Of course, take this with a grain of salt, it's only an opinion  "


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> I can't remember if it was deemed value purchase but my wallet jumped out and apparently bought a pair of the EH branded 6C45pi gold pinned off the Woo site today.  Some days, I swear... the damn mouse is more like a Ouija plachette.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That happened to me as well.
  
 Mine arrived yesterday, going to try them out later today.
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-pcs-NOS-matched-GOLD-pin-6S45P-E-audiophile-tube-WE437-6C45P-6C45Pi-/111667391724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ffe52cec
   
  
 Quote:


loquah said:


> Looks snug!
> 
> How have they altered the sound (realising it might be early days still)?


 
  
 The RTI should be well burnt in by now I used them for bypass duty in the Crack for about a year.
  
 I haven't spent much time with them fitted to the Mainline but definitely did notice the vocal separation in the Wailin Jenny's track "One Voice" is a touch more clearly defined and textured and am hearing a little more breathiness in some of their vocals all subtleties really the sound signature itself essentially has remained the same.   Other than that its to early to get a better grasp of any further subtle differences with the limited time and genre listened to so far.


----------



## NightFlight

swich401 said:


> I did indeed report back on Bottlehead's webpage :wink_face:  Here's a copy and paste of the report:
> 
> 
> "I recently did some tube rolling (albeit slow tube rolling, seeing as I had to re-adjust the bias each time I swapped tubes) with the Sovtek, Reflector and EH tubes that I have.
> ...




Thanks switch, I found your post AFTER I posted of course. I hoping they do in fact provide a little more V to the sound compared to the reflectors. I suppose one could always EQ it. OMG I did not just say that.


----------



## Loquah

Please leave this thread now...


----------



## skeptic

FYI - there's a discount through the end of T.H.E. Show this weekend on mainline kits if anyone has been sitting on the fence waiting for a sale to push them over.


----------



## Loquah

Do it! You won't regret it


----------



## NightFlight

*Updates*
  
*Anaxilus*
 So I went ahead and started to play with a hybrid of the Anaxilus mod. Not because I wanted to tame anything, but because I wanted to get rid of the dust cover.  Why? Do you listen to high end speakers with the grills on? Really? No. You just don't. I realized this early when I got the HD800s, but just now got serious about addressing the issue.
  
*Getting rid of the dust covers brings up the detail yet again with the HD800*. They are not sonically transparent. The mainline on its own still doesn't allow you to listen to the HD800 with no dust covers at all. The reflections in there are brutal without them and they serve to tame the walls of the earspeaker. Thus they must not be sonically transparent to do their job. Thus, why do they cover up the transducer area? Aesthetics and simplification of the design I guess.
  
 So, just using rug liner alone, I made a pair of circles that cover only the metal ring around the driver. Adhered with Scott's removal adhesive. Using the creatology materials outlined in the mod, I used it to tame the trapezoid area as it was designed to do. Then rug liner again for the remainder of the area. This took some time to get a good pattern, the original mod guide isn't so good.
  
 Anyhow, what I've got here is completely brilliant with the mainline. The sound signature is still the same, but the detail went up yet again +1.
  
  
*Tubes*
 Also with 80hrs on the Gold Lions I'm finding they have tamed a lot and have pretty much gained the same signature of the stock tube, but by now my auditory memory of the stock tubes is gone. So I'll put a couple months on these and switch back and see if there is any jarring nature returning to stock.
  
*Golden Ears*
 I completed the Phillips Golden Ears Challenge. Whoop-dee doo...


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Ugh, all this talk about Bottlehead Gear makes it harder to wait for my first 'crack' at the s.e.x.! Already ordered the triad chokes, mundorf supreme caps to replace the stock solen and orange drops, some extra resistors to see if all the fuss about audible sound differences between koa speers and dale and etc. Resistor manufacturer is anything more than noise.

As always, will be building it stock, with one exception; an upgraded attenuator. Debating between a khozmos, goldpoint, DACT, or sticking with the classic Alps blue velvet to start. 

Question on which upgrades to do first; would installing the C4S board before changing capacitors better allow me to hear the subtle differences between capacitors? Or would I be better off building stock, then upgrading capacitors, add the chokes, and then wire up the c4s?

Looking for whichever path would best allow me to hear the subtle, individual differences brought about by different components.


----------



## DDDamian

zachpthedude said:


> Ugh, all this talk about Bottlehead Gear makes it harder to wait for my first 'crack' at the s.e.x.! Already ordered the triad chokes, mundorf supreme caps to replace the stock solen and orange drops, some extra resistors to see if all the fuss about audible sound differences between koa speers and dale and etc. Resistor manufacturer is anything more than noise.
> 
> As always, will be building it stock, with one exception; an upgraded attenuator. Debating between a khozmos, goldpoint, DACT, or sticking with the classic Alps blue velvet to start.
> 
> ...


 
 My Mundorf Supremes just hit the post office (replacing the stage-coupling and parafeed caps) and I'm waiting for new iron to ship, so sorta in the same boat although I have the C4S in now.
  
 I would follow the standard advice given on the Bottlehead forums and start with stock, then start your modding once you've adjusted to that signature. I would probably do all the non-C4S mods first but plan your space around putting those boards in later. I think the C4S will be the biggest difference of them all, and you may lose the subtleties of the others upgrades if you do that first.
  
 Just my take - there's no right way


----------



## ZachPtheDude

I'm with you 100%. I think fitting the 4 supremes in there first, and figuring how to mount them, if they need extra mounting at all, is only possible without the CCCS installed in place.


----------



## DDDamian

zachpthedude said:


> I'm with you 100%. I think fitting the 4 supremes in there first, and figuring how to mount them, if they need extra mounting at all, is only possible without the CCCS installed in place.


 
 +1. I've also seen some big-ass caps used for the final filtering stage of the power supply. Maybe have a look at some of the more extreme mods in the Bottlehead forum gallery? Might help with avoiding space issues or de-soldering later. BTW, I love my Crack with the 650's, but the S.E.X is just so flexible and has a nicer soundstage with a little more air to my ears. Being able to plug in just about any can on the market is a huge bonus. At very high-levels my HE-400's and LCD's trip up a little bit, so I don't think you'd drive HE-6's with it, but everything short of those will play very nicely.
  
 Hope it lands on your doorstep soon!


----------



## ZachPtheDude

dddamian said:


> +1. I've also seen some big-ass caps used for the final filtering stage of the power supply. Maybe have a look at some of the more extreme mods in the Bottlehead forum gallery? Might help with avoiding space issues or de-soldering later. BTW, I love my Crack with the 650's, but the S.E.X is just so flexible and has a nicer soundstage with a little more air to my ears. Being able to plug in just about any can on the market is a huge bonus. At very high-levels my HE-400's and LCD's trip up a little bit, so I don't think you'd drive HE-6's with it, but everything short of those will play very nicely.
> 
> Hope it lands on your doorstep soon!




I should be receiving my Alpha Dogs today, can't wait to try them with the SEX.

Oh, I've been looking! My birthday is this July actually and one of my dad's best friends, like an uncle to me, does woodwork and he has a beautiful piecs of walnut he's planning on making into a case for my SEX, just finished with a linseed oil. Planning to build it deeper and half an inch wider in all directions to provide extra space for any zany ideas.

Though for now I'm happy with replacing two of the resistors with chokes, 100r resistor heater supply mod, upgraded film caps, c4s. Maybe replace all the electrolytics with new audio note "blackgate inspired" line of electrolytics and spend close to the cost of a kit on the power suppy roflmao


----------



## DDDamian

zachpthedude said:


> I should be receiving my Alpha Dogs today, can't wait to try them with the SEX.
> 
> Oh, I've been looking! My birthday is this July actually and one of my dad's best friends, like an uncle to me, does woodwork and he has a beautiful piecs of walnut he's planning on making into a case for my SEX, just finished with a linseed oil. Planning to build it deeper and half an inch wider in all directions to provide extra space for any zany ideas.
> 
> Though for now I'm happy with replacing two of the resistors with chokes, 100r resistor heater supply mod, upgraded film caps, c4s. Maybe replace all the electrolytics with new audio note "blackgate inspired" line of electrolytics and spend close to the cost of a kit on the power suppy roflmao


 
 Walnut with linseed oil will be beautiful (would recommend boiled linseed oil for drying and observe safe disposal practices of any rags used to prevent self-combustion). Tung oil is another nice alternative and I like the smell  I assume you'll use some type of internal rails to make the inner dimensions wider. When I re-did the base of my Crack I made it taller to accommodate upgraded caps:


----------



## ZachPtheDude

dddamian said:


> Walnut with linseed oil will be beautiful (would recommend boiled linseed oil for drying and observe safe disposal practices of any rags used to prevent self-combustion). I assume you'll use some type of internal rails to make the inner dimensions wider.




Boiled is assumed  hehe, always safe! If we can't dispose of combustible rags lets stay away from point to point wired tube amp currents 

As far as the inner dimensions we had a few ideas in mind. It's hard to describe, but the most functional and good looking sketch had the case look like a rooftop. Wider at the bottom and as it slopes up it gets less wide. Gives me room for different mounting ideas, feels less cramped, better ventilation, etc.


----------



## DDDamian

zachpthedude said:


> Boiled is assumed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very cool - take pics!


----------



## JamieMcC

Finally scratched the planar itch and the HE-6 is sounding pretty nice using the Sex


----------



## rogerthatmand

Guys, I'm about to get my Crack (with Speedball) to pair with my HD800. But I'm really not sure whether I should or shouldn't add the Speedball option.
 What do you think?


----------



## Loquah

Definitely get it. It can be fun to try the kit without it first, but buy it now to get the discount because you'll definitely want to install it later if not straight away.


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Just about finished assembling the sex, then soldering time. I've been taking progress pics.

Went with a kiwame populated elma attenuator, some koa speer metal films to experiment with resistors and have some kiwame carbon films on the way along with two vishay bulk foils for the c4s board per PJ's recco. Also ordered two 20uf 400vdc Soviet mbgo-1 pio caps that should be here next month and I'll try those in the power supply.

Expect pics within a few days!


----------



## rogerthatmand

Question for everyone who built the Crack with the Speedball upgrade:
 The Crack and the Speedball manuals come separately and it's not mentioned in the Crack manual which step exactly the Speedball should be installed at the Crack manual. It only mentioned after the Crack is assembled completely.
 Does anyone know in which page should I start building the Speeball into the Crack? I don't want to start desolder components.


----------



## grausch

You should absolutely build it stock first - if you run into any issues with your build removing the Speedball to troubleshoot is unavoidable.
  
 The only thing I would do is place the standoffs around the nine-pin socket to ensure that your wires are routed appropriately. Just note that you will then route your wires with the standoffs in place, but remove them for soldering as they get in the way.


----------



## NightFlight

I'm going to second Grausch.
  
 Build it stock.  The speedball kit simply replaces two sets of plate load resistors.  Should you ever have to troubleshoot the build after the speedball is in, you can revert it back to a stock kit very quickly.  Pulling out the plate load resistors is a matter of cutting them out and then heating up the same solder points and pulling out the remaining wire while hot. Maybe using a solder sucker or braid to clean up the excess if necessary.
  
 As for de-soldering - you should get a handle on that.  I use a solder sucker and never really worked out getting braid to work well for me.  But, removing components is like building. Like using an eraser is part of writing. Using the backspace is part of typing....etc.


----------



## rogerthatmand

Yes, never thought of it that way. I can run into issues after I add the Speedball and then I won't have any choice to remove it.
 I guess that appreciating the difference with the upgrade is also important.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## skeptic

rogerthatmand said:


> Yes, never thought of it that way. I can run into issues after I add the Speedball and then I won't have any choice to remove it.
> I guess that appreciating the difference with the upgrade is also important.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Totally agree with the above.  You want to be able to get the stock build working first and then worry about the speedball.  The only caveat is that when you fasten the hardware to your chassis, you might go ahead and pull out the nylon standoffs that the speedball boards will ultimate sit on and screw them on to the four existing screws that come with the stock kit.  Then, when you wire up your input tube socket, these will already be in place and you can wire around them/won't have to try and potentially reposition the wires to make room for the standoffs after the fact.  
  
 I was careless when I went to install my standoffs and ended up breaking a lead on one of the a-socket led's that was a pain in the rear to deal with.  Easily avoidable though if you are careful.
  
 Also, the stock amp really does sound very good.  Far better than a Woo 3 for example in my opinion.  Nice to get to hear it stock for a few days at least and then drop in the speedball the following weekend.


----------



## grausch

rogerthatmand said:


> Yes, never thought of it that way. I can run into issues after I add the Speedball and then I won't have any choice to remove it.
> I guess that appreciating the difference with the upgrade is also important.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 You will notice that both skeptic and I advised mounting the Speedball standoffs during the Crack build. With my initial build, I blocked the screw closest to the terminal strip which made getting the standoff really difficult and would have placed some stress on one or two solder joints.
  
 With my rebuild, I installed the standoffs once I started working in the nine-pin socket area and I believe it allowed me to achieve better routing for the eventual Speedball install. 
  
 Just be aware that it gets crowded if you decided to solder with them installed. I would just unscrew them whenever I needed to solder and then replace them afterwards. Worked like a charm.


----------



## NightFlight

Well, I upgraded the Caps in my Mainline to the Mundorf EVO SilverGold Oil.  I tried breaking them in on speaker taps, but I don't have a low enough resistor with a high enough wattage on hand. So the itch got the best of me and I'm just going to break them in right on the rig. My initial impressions are great!
  
 More detail out of everything. Impact and snap/crackle/pop are jumping out. Easy on the ear even though they are completely raw.  Without burn-in and as they stand they are too intimate and I'm hoping that opens up with time. Actually, I'm betting on it. I think they are already lending more performance upgrade to the Mainline than the Electro-harmonix 6C45Pi I grabbed I grabbed from Woo Audio. I don't know, maybe its the pairing. But it so far, its awesome.
  
 I got them from http://www.partsconnexion.com while their yearly 20% discount on everything sale was on util June 30th. So if you go this route it will set you back a couple hundred bux. As much as I wanted to, I just couldn't justify the Supreme SilverGold Oil at $277ea. Redonkulous!  But I think the EVO definitely have bang for your buck and I'm really going to enjoy listening to them flower over the next few hundred hours.
  
 I think the biggest attribute the Mundorf EVO SGO brough to the table on top of detail is the musical quality to the total impression.  I thought the Daytons were really good and anything I dropped into replace them would be a marginal upgrade at most.  A non-audiophile would probably not get this change at all... but I think its money well spent. Not that the Daytons are a bad cap at all, but they're just missing that extra oomph.


----------



## Loquah

Nice to hear, the Mundorf EVOs are good too. I might be building a Mainline for a fellow Aussie soon (it's taken a year or so of persuasion, but I think I finally got him across the line 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) so I'll keep them in mind for him - thanks, Skeptic.
  
 Great advice above about building the Crack in stock form, but with standoffs. I didn't do that on my first build, but definitely did the second time around - makes it SO much easier.


----------



## DDDamian

A day away from receiving my S.E.X 2.0 iron upgrade, and some Mundorf Supreme 2.2uf parafeed and 0.1uf coupling caps are waiting patiently in the box. Will be a happy weekend of burn-and-play


----------



## DDDamian

Just received the Iron Upgrade for my BH S.E.X amp. Wow - very substantial transformers and plate chokes - heavy iron indeed. Have 2x Mundorf Supreme 2.2uf parafeed caps and 2x Mundorf Supreme 0.1uf coupling caps sitting in a box, the unit itself upside-down and stripped of the old caps, and a serious itch to solder!
  
 Unfortunately I must cut the grass, weed the garden and install some ballisters on the stairs of the new deck before I get to play. Curse you female logic!! On a happier note it's a long weekend for me, and the sooner I get these puppies installed the sooner they can cook in lol.


----------



## NightFlight

Possibly too late now, it takes nearly no time to solder in the components and it would be better to break-in while you work around the house.


----------



## DDDamian

nightflight said:


> Possibly too late now, it takes nearly no time to solder in the components and it would be better to break-in while you work around the house.


 
  
 On a happy note, my BH S.E.X brain surgery was a success! At least after two hours of troubleshooting lol. Never solder at 02:00am in a tight rats-nest with poor lighting and several beverages! At least no light-show to accompany the fanfare.
  
 Early impressions are very good. I previously characterized the S.E,X (2.0) as very airy and spacious with a decent soundstage and great detail - surprisingly so for tubes. Where it lacked was some bass punch.
  
 The old girl now has 2.1 iron and plate chokes installed to bring it up to current standard. I changed out the coupling and parafeed capacitors for some Mundorf Supremes. Both of these upgrades are expected to need a fairly long settling period, and I'm in the first two hours or so. I also removed the 120ohm jack resistors for a little more current / less attenuation on power-hungry cans.
  
 According to Doc, the upgraded iron is supposed to improve bass linearity by an octave or so and increase the overall dynamics. I can clearly hear that - both bass extension and definition are better, and the amp seems a little more SS-sounding in terms of not rounding edges. There's a hint of harshness surrounding some of the transients which I trust will smooth out.
  
 The Mundorfs are said to be "highly detailed yet musical".
  
 Through the 650's right now the detail-retrieval is way up over what it was already - with more dynamics and punch without killing the 650 sound. The soundstage is a little more closed-in than it was - likely as the bass warmed up a bit. The whole thing got more Crack-like but with better detail than what I get from even more lively tubes like the Cifte 12AU7/5998 combo I enjoy so much. I may have to experiment with the output resistance a little as the gain is very high so volume-control within reasonable ranges is more restricted, with the benefit of more overall current / voltage swing. The objective there was getting more power and punch out to my LCD2.2c's and HE-400's - ditching the resistors did that in spades without noticeably increasing the noise-floor.
  
 Hoping the rougher edges smooth out a bit - almost a certainty with these particular mods - gotta let them cook. All-in-all a success from the get-go. It's like a more refined Crack. Detail, great power and punch, and a dead-black background even using the 32ohm taps and no output attenuators. Win!


----------



## Loquah

What are the rougher edges? Just some general edginess to the sound or something more specific?
  
 No doubt the caps will settle down so hopefully that's all it is.


----------



## DDDamian

Hi Loquah - yep, just a general harshness to faster transients and brighter highs. And spot on - within 4hrs most of that had fallen right off. Now have about 14hrs on the mods and there's hardly a trace of them. Very encouraging, as I could spot the good differences immediately. Honestly - continued improvements from here would be a bonus but already the increase in bass quantity/extension and the improved dynamics are very welcome.
  
 I wouldn't have put S.E.X and "authoritative" in the same sentence before. Now that's my first impression. The music is much more punchy, livelier and more "fun". The loss might be in soundstage and "air" but it was a good trade for the benefits. Can't wait for the final result!
  
 Please note this is a S.E.X 2.0, so comparisons to 2.1 aren't really valid except for the cap upgrade. You 2.1 owners already have this iron


----------



## Loquah

I found the same "loss of space" with my Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil upgrade. I wouldn't trade it for the world, but the space and layering from the stock Dayton caps was awesome and I miss it slightly.


----------



## NightFlight

I've been letting mine burn in for a couple days, but only a total of ~30hrs. The Humble Homemade HiFi cap guide states:
  
"The MCap EVO Silver Gold Oil does need some time to burn-in and calm down. Fresh out of the box I found them rather nervous, give them at least 50 hours to mellow out."
  
 They really do seem to wander in performance since I've been checking in on them.  Also the the author warns the EVO SGO's are top end centric and provide excellent detail there. C5 register and up - a piano lovers dream. I am not a piano guy but I do hear the detail on string instruments. Detail should by all rights reveal space.... but its not really consistently showing up yet. The imaging and layering was just wild when I checked in yesterday, but I found it most pronounced with the high impedance setting. 
  
 During this breaking in I've found that sometimes the music sounds just flat and boring, other times engaging and layered. I think it has to be me. I'm nuts. But the Daytons were consistent so... go figure.
  
 Did you go for the Supreme SGO or the EVO's?


----------



## Loquah

Is this in the Mainline or SEX?

In Mainline I have Auricaps. In the SEX are the Supremes so I can't directly compare my experiences.

What cans are you using? The change on high impedance makes me wonder if the differences are partly impedance related.

Also, perhaps the new caps are letting you hear more variation between average and excellent recordings?


----------



## NightFlight

Mainline with HD800. And when comparing, I generally stick to the same recordings. But it doesn't matter.


----------



## Loquah

nightflight said:


> Mainline with HD800. And when comparing, I generally stick to the same recordings. But it doesn't matter.


 
  
 Hmmm... perhaps it's just the caps settling. I don't know enough about the physics / chemistry of it to be sure.


----------



## NightFlight

I think so. They apparently have more effect, at least these caps in this amp with these headphones for me than I would have expected from your original review of the Mainline.


----------



## Loquah

The deciding factor in buying the Auricaps was their transparency so that probably explains why I experienced only subtle changes.


----------



## DDDamian

Upwards of 40hrs now on the Sex 2.0 iron upgrade and Mundorf Supremes in the coupling/parafeed paths: no more rough edges. There is a definite improvement in dynamics, bass and resolution. Highly recommended upgrade path for anyone who still uses the original 2.0. I already have the C4S boards in play.
  
 About the only thing I may do from here is upgrade and/or bypass the last PSU cap. Suggestions welcome!
  
 This winter I plan on tackling the Mainline - if only because Loquah says so


----------



## JamieMcC

dddamian said:


> Upwards of 40hrs now on the Sex 2.0 iron upgrade and Mundorf Supremes in the coupling/parafeed paths: no more rough edges. There is a definite improvement in dynamics, bass and resolution. Highly recommended upgrade path for anyone who still uses the original 2.0. I already have the C4S boards in play.
> 
> About the only thing I may do from here is upgrade and/or bypass the last PSU cap. Suggestions welcome!
> 
> This winter I plan on tackling the Mainline - if only because Loquah says so


 

 You know Loquah is right about the Mainline did he also mention HD800's are the must have accessory for all righteous Mainline owners


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> You know Loquah is right about the Mainline did he also mention HD800's are the must have accessory for all righteous Mainline owners


 
  
 The two really are a dream pair, aren't they, Jamie?


----------



## DDDamian

Good - 'cause I finally bit the bullet and have a pair inbound


----------



## bigfatpaulie

dddamian said:


> Good - 'cause I finally bit the bullet and have a pair inbound


 
  
 Then you, Sir, NEED a Mainline.  I know this guy, Doc, he can totally hook you up


----------



## DDDamian

bigfatpaulie said:


> Then you, Sir, NEED a Mainline.  I know this guy, Doc, he can totally hook you up


 
 He's already booking his Christmas Party based on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For now the HD-800's are going to have to play nice with my Crack or S.E.X lol. Which begs the question: evict the 650's from the Crack or the LCD2.2's from the S.E.X? So many great sounds, so many great cans.
  
 I need a bigger desk lol. The Mainline/HD-800 need to take their place, and so far I'm not about to ditch either of the above pairings!


----------



## Loquah

dddamian said:


> He's already booking his Christmas Party based on it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good move on the HD800 purchase. The Mainline is most definitely in your future now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for the choice of amps, both are excellent with the HD800, but I reckon it'll be worth switching between the LCDs and HD800s on your SEX to make the most of the extra resolution and layering that the SEX can produce. Whatever you do, though, don't get tempted like I did to sell off your LCDs. Thankfully a mate advised me to keep the LCDs and the LCD+SEX combo still remains the perfect complement to the Mainline+HD800 combo.


----------



## DDDamian

loquah said:


> Good move on the HD800 purchase. The Mainline is most definitely in your future now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cheers mate - always appreciate your advice. I love my pre-fazor LCD2.2's dearly, and they sound great with the SEX. Pre-upgrade of the 2.0 SEX I was wanting a bit more from the LCD's, especially better utilization of the bass those beasts deliver. I picked up a Gustard H-10 knowing that it had the cahones, and had some op-amp rolling potential. That, and many have said the LCD enjoys the SS power more.
  
 Post-op (lol) the SEX has become a very different animal, and the pairing is wonderful. The power it can bring to bear really ups the ante on both my planars, and the increase in dynamics plays well with the incredible speed of the planar drivers.
  
 Not selling a thing lol. The 800 will have to do double-duty on both BH amps until the Mainline build.
  
 Since this is a BH thread I'll say this: both my BH amps are incredible pieces of gear. The ability to customize and the pride of ownership is right up there. Thanks Doc for all the music!


----------



## Loquah

dddamian said:


> Cheers mate - always appreciate your advice. I love my pre-fazor LCD2.2's dearly, and they sound great with the SEX. Pre-upgrade of the 2.0 SEX I was wanting a bit more from the LCD's, especially better utilization of the bass those beasts deliver. I picked up a Gustard H-10 knowing that it had the cahones, and had some op-amp rolling potential. That, and many have said the LCD enjoys the SS power more.
> 
> Post-op (lol) the SEX has become a very different animal, and the pairing is wonderful. The power it can bring to bear really ups the ante on both my planars, and the increase in dynamics plays well with the incredible speed of the planar drivers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So true. I've even contemplated a new Crack build just so I can have all three again, but I think that's more about a love of the product than an actual need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 +1 in thanks to Doc!


----------



## Doc B.

Thank you for the kind words! The jump from the early S.E.X. 2.0 iron to the current iron is pretty dramatic, an octave or two of bass dynamics is improved. If you guys ever get tired of your LCDs and HD-800s with S.E.X. and Mainline, there's always the K1000s and the Neothoriator.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

doc b. said:


> Thank you for the kind words! The jump from the early S.E.X. 2.0 iron to the current iron is pretty dramatic, an octave or two of bass dynamics is improved. If you guys ever get tired of your LCDs and HD-800s with S.E.X. and Mainline, there's always the K1000s and the *Neothoriator*.


 
  
 I guess I am a little slow...  But is that kit available for purchase?


----------



## DDDamian

doc b. said:


> Thank you for the kind words! The jump from the early S.E.X. 2.0 iron to the current iron is pretty dramatic, an octave or two of bass dynamics is improved. If you guys ever get tired of your LCDs and HD-800s with S.E.X. and Mainline, there's always the K1000s and the Neothoriator.


 
 But...but....then I won't have the shekels to get the Mainline!!
  
 In all seriousness I am very happy with the upgrade, and proud to sport the BH logo on two amps each with their mods and their sweetspots for cans. Cannot recommend enough. Keep up the good work Team Bottlehead.


----------



## Doc B.

Neo is not a kit. It's a custom order amp, and our best.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7888.0
  
 above is the link leading to the Neothoriator for those who are interested


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Is there anything wrong with paralleling two matched 1uf capacitors to get a 2uf value for the parafeed cap in my SEX? I've searched the web but can't find anything specific.


----------



## JamieMcC

No go for it I had did the same for a while on my Sex. What caps are you going to try?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

doc b. said:


> Neo is not a kit. It's a custom order amp, and our best.




I have no doubt 

Will it ever be available as a more "advanced skill level" kit? I just need you to release a new for me to buy!


----------



## Rayvolution

Can anyone provide me with the wiring diagram for the 8ohm configuration on the S.E.X 2.1 output transformers? I want to try it out since I can't turn the knob very much on my LCD 2. I have mine wired at 32 ohm right now but in over a years time I've lost the CD.


----------



## DDDamian

rayvolution said:


> Can anyone provide me with the wiring diagram for the 8ohm configuration on the S.E.X 2.1 output transformers? I want to try it out since I can't turn the knob very much on my LCD 2. I have mine wired at 32 ohm right now but in over a years time I've lost the CD.




I can hook you up - PM me. BTW another option is a few resistors to attenuate the volume a bit. Either way, PM.


----------



## Doc B.

bigfatpaulie said:


> I have no doubt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Right now PB is the only one qualified to build a Neo and we are still figuring out small details as we go. It's not really something we planned to do as a kit. We do have a couple of new kit ideas brewing though, hopefully for release this fall.


----------



## DDDamian

doc b. said:


> Right now PB is the only one qualified to build a Neo and we are still figuring out small details as we go. It's not really something we planned to do as a kit. We do have a couple of new kit ideas brewing though, hopefully for release this fall.


 
 There is a queue forming on the left, wallets out


----------



## adamaley

I used to be a Crack baby, now I'm on an Audeze for S.E.X. Playing with a new lens for my camera:
  
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/132977578@N03/19677872451/in/dateposted-public/


----------



## DDDamian

adamaley said:


> I used to be a Crack baby, now I'm on an Audeze for S.E.X. Playing with a new lens for my camera:
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/132977578@N03/19677872451/in/dateposted-public/


 
 Nice pic. What an amazing combo eh? Listening to that pairing now with Cat Stevens - Teaser and the Firecat. Does very well with acoustic guitar.


----------



## JamieMcC

Spotted these on ebay. Perfect for hard core Sex addicts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301678639075?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## DDDamian

jamiemcc said:


> Spotted these on ebay. Perfect for hard core Sex addicts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's a rare find indeed - the nickel MQ in the wild....Methinks you have found the King of Procrastination


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Has anyone with a SEX 2.1 compared to new OPT with the magnequest trafos?

@jamie I was considering paralleling different 1uf caps. Some brands don't have anything rated for 600vdc+ AND at least 1.5uf in capacitance.


----------



## JamieMcC

zachpthedude said:


> Has anyone with a SEX 2.1 compared to new OPT with the magnequest trafos?
> 
> @jamie I was considering paralleling different 1uf caps. Some brands don't have anything rated for 600vdc+ AND at least 1.5uf in capacitance.


 

 You need to stick with the  600vdc specification there are plenty of options with that rating or above.


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Tease shot of my almost finished SEX case, and the SEX paint job

https://instagram.com/p/5K-nu5s-On/


----------



## Doc B.

Looks great!


----------



## ZachPtheDude

doc b. said:


> Looks great!




Thanks Doc. My dad's friend went above and beyond, the metal stripe inlay is a perfect touch.


----------



## DDDamian

zachpthedude said:


> Thanks Doc. My dad's friend went above and beyond, the metal stripe inlay is a perfect touch.


 
 Really does give it a nice touch. Hard to tell from that pic with a bit of reflection but it looks like the "front" panel has some nice grain in there too.


----------



## JamieMcC

The bright metal stripe inlay looks really neat against the darker wood, nice idea


----------



## Loquah

zachpthedude said:


> Tease shot of my almost finished SEX case, and the SEX paint job
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/5K-nu5s-On/




Looks great!! Your bell cover colour is almost the same as mine.


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Thanks for all of the compliments. The case is beautiful, I'll give a full write-up on the wood used, and the finishing process. It's really a beautiful case, and it gives me more room for upgrades 

Trust me, a proper reveal of both the internals and external pictures is coming. I'm a slow, meticulous guy. It's annoying at times, but it works out for the better.

Also, if anyone is interested in a similar case for their own Bottlehead amplifier I could always ask if he's interested in making more cases. There are different wood options, and this was his first "amplifier" case but he has a lot of experience and can do a lot of different things for a case. I just need his permission before I go sharing his name


----------



## rogerthatmand




----------



## DDDamian

rogerthatmand said:


> Spoiler: Vid enclosed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## skeptic

Just stumbled on a good deal on fleabay for some EH 6c45pi gold pins.  Grabbed one pair for myself since I've been interested in hearing these tubes in the mainline for quite some time.  I'm sharing the link here for the remaining pair in case any of you guys have been hunting for some but not wanting to pay Woo's asking price: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141726774022


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Fellow SEX addicts,

After the c4s, in my experience, comes upgrading the stock film caps. I have some mundorf supremes, and Solen AGM silver sounds for parafeed duties and mundorf supremes for coupling duties.

Does anyone in here have a fully hot rodded SEX? I'm thinking before I grab any teflon capacitors, or TOTL mundorfs, etc., would I even really be able to hear all the subtleties without replacing the 100 and 22uf psu caps with Solens or M-Caps, replacing the CRCRC resistors with chokes, upgrading all signal path resistors to bulk foil or naked z-foil vishays, etc.?

Reason I ask is I have a line on the new Mundorf Evo Supreme Silver/Gold in Oil for a great price, but I'm wondering if the money would be better spent upgrading the power supply.

Thanks for reading.

Listening to what I build is fun, but the tinkering nerd in me almost prefers experimenting with parts choice.


----------



## JamieMcC

zachpthedude said:


> Fellow SEX addicts,
> 
> After the c4s, in my experience, comes upgrading the stock film caps. I have some mundorf supremes, and Solen AGM silver sounds for parafeed duties and mundorf supremes for coupling duties.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Capacitor wise I have only experimented with the inter-stage and output caps firstly with some Ampohms and later some Mundorf Supreme silver oils both gave decent gains the resolution and open, precise sound stage of the Mundorf SIO is excellent. I Recently scored some  3.3uf Jupiter HT Beeswax's that will also get rolled soon. The chokes also make a inexpensive and noticeable difference. I added the stepped attenuator from the start so cant really comment on the stock one. Basically I followed the same path as Macandmar explains in his excellent ramblings thread on the Bottlehead forum. I found the stock Sex a little on the lean side with my T1's coming from a modded Crack and I think the mods have helped considerably in addressing this for me. 
  
 Other amps have come and gone but both the Sex and Mainline are keepers for the foreseeable future.
  
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=5316.0
  

  
 + chokes added over the 36 step attenuator


----------



## ZachPtheDude

jamiemcc said:


> Capacitor wise I have only experimented with the inter-stage and output caps firstly with some Ampohms and later some Mundorf Supreme silver oils both gave decent gains the resolution and open, precise sound stage of the Mundorf SIO is excellent. I Recently scored some  3.3uf Jupiter HT Beeswax's that will also get rolled soon. The chokes also make a inexpensive and noticeable difference. I added the stepped attenuator from the start so cant really comment on the stock one. Basically I followed the same path as Macandmar explains in his excellent ramblings thread on the Bottlehead forum. I found the stock Sex a little on the lean side with my T1's coming from a modded Crack and I think the mods have helped considerably in addressing this for me.
> 
> Other amps have come and gone but both the Sex and Mainline are keepers for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...




You installed the attenuator sold by the Aikido designer I see! Looks like that took some extra work.

How do you like it? I have an elma populated with kiwame resistors attenuator in my SEX 2.1 (finishing up the final touches before I do tests) and I had a VALab in my old Crack.

I've read all the threads at Bottlehead, I think you've replied to me on their forum before, lol!

My SEX will be stock, excluding Mundorf Supremes for coupling and parafeed duties, a mills 5w 0.1ohm resistor (we all hate those cement blocks it seems ), and PRP metal film resistors in the signal path.

From there it will be test, burn in, listening test, get used to it, modify, and repeat.


----------



## JamieMcC

zachpthedude said:


> You installed the attenuator sold by the Aikido designer I see! Looks like that took some extra work.
> 
> How do you like it? I have an elma populated with kiwame resistors attenuator in my SEX 2.1 (finishing up the final touches before I do tests) and I had a VALab in my old Crack.


 
  
 Sonically I like it a lot and have used them a couple of times now in different builds using the Vishay RN55 resistors. It offers good performance and the 36 step fine course  adjustment on a budget and is a breeze to assemble. It seems very transparent and open and is similar in concept to the attenuator switches used in the Mainline however the switches Bottlehead use are of much higher quality in the Mainline and have a nicer switching action to them.  I also liked the Valab I had in my Crack but extra fine adjustment the 36 steps give compared to the Valabs 23 is welcome. Space is the issue with the Aikido A5 for retro fitting the pcb takes up a lot of real estate and it was a squeeze getting it into the Sex.


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

I wonder if Glassware will ever have the board with the 3 Elma switches, I feel like that's been sold out for years now...


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

zachpthedude said:


> Has anyone with a SEX 2.1 compared to new OPT with the magnequest trafos?
> 
> @jamie I was considering paralleling different 1uf caps. Some brands don't have anything rated for 600vdc+ AND at least 1.5uf in capacitance.


 
 I have the 2.0 with MQs, could bring it to a meet in the MD/DC/VA area if anyone wants to compare. I do recall the upgrade being worthwhile from the stock config, although as you know it's pretty pricey. Gave the bass more heft, and took it in the right direction with a warm yet detailed sound.


----------



## JamieMcC

I was the only bidder and won (read stole) a Jupiter HT 3.3uf and 0.1uf capacitor on ebay the other week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Unfortunately this then required the purchase of second new Jupiter HT 3.3uf and 0.1uf to make up the pair for the Sex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still recovering from that shock!
  
 So it was out with the 2.7uf Mundorf supreme silver oils and the inter-stage Ampohm 0.1uf paper in wax aluminium foils and in with the 3.3uf Jupiter HT Bees Wax Papers and 0.1uf Jupiter HT Bees Wax Papers.
  
 Burn in is said to be around 100-200hrs sounding very nice so far
  
  

  
 The 2.7uf Mundorfs and 3.3uf Jupiters are similar in size but check out the difference between the 0.1uf Ampohm and 0.1uf Jupiters


----------



## JamieMcC

If anyone is sitting on the fence Bottlehead is running a 20% off promotion on the Sex and then throwing in the Sex C4S upgrade as well.
  
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=8239.0


----------



## DDDamian

jamiemcc said:


> If anyone is sitting on the fence Bottlehead is running a 20% off promotion on the Sex and then throwing in the Sex C4S upgrade as well.
> 
> http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=8239.0


 
 Glad you mentioned, cause this is just an outstanding amp, Really a champ for any range of phones, and something special indeed. I am staggered by mine: the resolution, lively sound with great dynamics, and the pride of a home-built is so worth it. For basically USD$430 you will not get anything close to it in SQ or versatility. I have two BH amps and building the Mainline soon. Just do it.
  
 Edit: P.S for those searching.....the Crack is hugely popular as a modder's platform and a great amp for high-impedance cans like the HD-650. The S.E.X is just that much more refined a sound, and can handle planars as well as dynamic drivers with ease. If you've considered the Crack, I consider this one-up in terms of SQ and a Swiss-army knife to handle all those other cans that need more current.


----------



## NightFlight

Well... if you've the free cash, just drop on the Mainline. I've got a crack sitting here that's fairly modded and it can't touch it. Everything said and done, I think my crack has about 90% of the Mainline co$t sunk into it.  Though, it does preform very well, the Mainline just oozes detail. The crack has life and spark in spades, but after a couple years of that, I began to tire.  I'm thinking of selling it to upgrade my DAC because its now the weaker link.
  
 If you like modding that's one thing. But if your after performance then I would just drop the cash. Then again, if you have about 10K you can get what you want built. I'm thinking like this. You only live once and life is short. Pleasures are few. If this is your thing.. find a way.


----------



## DDDamian

nightflight said:


> Well... if you've the free cash, just drop on the Mainline. I've got a crack sitting here that's fairly modded and it can't touch it. Everything said and done, I think my crack has about 90% of the Mainline co$t sunk into it.  Though, it does preform very well, the Mainline just oozes detail. The crack has life and spark in spades, but after a couple years of that, I began to tire.  I'm thinking of selling it to upgrade my DAC because its now the weaker link.
> 
> If you like modding that's one thing. But if your after performance then I would just drop the cash. Then again, if you have about 10K you can get what you want built. I'm thinking like this. You only live once and life is short. Pleasures are few. If this is your thing.. find a way.


 
 Great advice NightFlight. I've seen Crack mods that cost way more than a stock Mainline. The beauty of the Crack is you can start small and take it wherever you want, both mod-wise and tube-wise. Likely the most flexible package out there for high-impedance cans.
  
 I've set my sights on the Mainline based on opinions like yours and so many others here. Just won't be building for a few more months, more just because I have so many other toys to play with right now (Bryston BHA-1 on the way!) and summer in Canada is so freaking short lol. I want to take all the time I need to enjoy the build: stock + a few upgrades + a really really killer finish.
  
 Like the finest Scotch: not going to chug this one  It completes my triumverate of Crack, Sex and Mainline and I want to savour it.....


----------



## NightFlight

Jonny Walker Blue Label is around what $30-40 an oz if you can find a bar that stocks it. Slug that back or mix it and I will hit you.
  
 Unless you buy me one that is.


----------



## DDDamian

nightflight said:


> Jonny Walker Blue Label is around what $30-40 an oz if you can find a bar that stocks it. Slug that back or mix it and I will hit you.
> 
> Unless you buy me one that is.


 
 Great analogy - may we have the opportunity to test it! Cheers!


----------



## DavidA

nightflight said:


> Jonny Walker Blue Label is around what $30-40 an oz if you can find a bar that stocks it. Slug that back or mix it and I will hit you.
> 
> Unless you buy me one that is.


 

 Come to Hawaii, my friend gets a free bottle of blue when ever he asks for one at the bar we drink at.  First time I tried it, was going to mix in diet coke, lol


----------



## DDDamian

davida said:


> Come to Hawaii, my friend gets a free bottle of blue when ever he asks for one at the bar we drink at.  First time I tried it, was going to mix in diet coke, lol


 
 Damn, party's at David's place!!!  Move done yet or still in progress?
  
 NightFlight and I just chatting - he's 40min away in some old stomping-grounds of mine lol. If only the 'net had shrunk the real-worldTM the same amount would be an awesome meet happening right now


----------



## DavidA

dddamian said:


> Damn, party's at David's place!!!  Move done yet or still in progress?
> 
> NightFlight and I just chatting - he's 40min away in some old stomping-grounds of mine lol. If only the 'net had shrunk the real-worldTM the same amount would be an awesome meet happening right now


 

 Still in progress, should be done Aug10


----------



## NightFlight

davida said:


> Come to Hawaii, my friend gets a free bottle of blue when ever he asks for one at the bar we drink at.  First time I tried it, was going to mix in diet coke, lol


 
 Seriously. I will hit you.  Don't make me come down there.


----------



## DDDamian

davida said:


> Still in progress, should be done Aug10


 
  
 Always a pain - the older I get the less I want to move lol.


nightflight said:


> Seriously. I will hit you.  Don't make me come down there.


 
 Scotch, HP's and dames - all sure to spawn reactions lol.
  
 On a more BH note: one thing I'm just loving more and more on the HP odyssey is the PRaT, dynamics and "live" sound. Warmth is great and all, but I guess what hit me about the LCD's and other planars is how well they hit those SQ characteristics so well. Absolute slavery to FR is a part of the game, but only a part. There's so much more to music than a flat-FR or Nyquist will ever describe.
  
 I've seen a lot of posts on the Mainline that the detail is there. Sometimes words like refinement make me a little worried about some of the above for more lively, or indeed live, music. A good fit?


----------



## DavidA

nightflight said:


> Seriously. I will hit you.


 

 Sorry, not a scotch drinker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, poison of choice is Vodka for me when out at a bar, wine at home, usually cabernet or pinot.


----------



## DDDamian

davida said:


> Sorry, not a scotch drinker
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Merlot or Shiraz here, if cornered


----------



## NightFlight

davida said:


> Sorry, not a scotch drinker
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Johnny is a whiskey....... sigh. If you like to quantify your rang... than high end whiskey is the tool.


----------



## DDDamian

nightflight said:


> Johnny is a whiskey....... sigh. If you like to quantify your rang... than high end whiskey is the tool.


 
 We're all pretty provincial lol - whiskey is a mis-used term. In the UK it refers to Scotch, in Canada to rye whiskey, in the US to either bourbon or rye depending on where you live. To some there "rye whiskey" is the same as "Canadian whiskey" and bourbon is distinct, to others there whiskey only refers to the bourbons. In the north of the USA from prohibition on Canadian whiskey was the king, leading to the rum-runners and that old boat stuck on a rock just above Niagara Falls.
  
 To our UK friends anything less than Scotch whiskey is a sacrilige (poor buggers lol). But they lay ultimate claim so all good 
  
 Yikes, runs from rampant OT


----------



## DavidA

nightflight said:


> Johnny is a whiskey....... sigh. If you like to quantify your rang... than high end whiskey is the tool.


 
 When I'm out I call whiskey, bourbon, scotch, cognac "Brown Stuff" since I can't remember what is what.  But have started to like Louie XIII, JW Blue & Crown Reserve.
  
 Relating to amps for me:
 JW Blue: BH Crack, just smooth
 Crown Reserve: Project Ember, very versatile
 Grey Goose Pear: Lyr2, strong smooth kick


----------



## DDDamian

davida said:


> When I'm out I call whiskey, bourbon, scotch, cognac "Brown Stuff" since I can't remember what is what.  But have started to like Louie XIII, JW Blue & Crown Reserve.
> 
> Relating to amps for me:
> JW Blue: BH Crack, just smooth
> ...


 
 Crown Royale: smooth, easy to savour: HD650
 JW Blue: the bite and peaty earthiness of Scotch seeped in age, demanding appreciation: HD800
 Wild Turkey: aggressive yet smokey and deep, reeks of blues: LCD2.2


----------



## JamieMcC

dddamian said:


> Always a pain - the older I get the less I want to move lol.
> Scotch, HP's and dames - all sure to spawn reactions lol.
> 
> On a more BH note: one thing I'm just loving more and more on the HP odyssey is the PRaT, dynamics and "live" sound. Warmth is great and all, but I guess what hit me about the LCD's and other planars is how well they hit those SQ characteristics so well. Absolute slavery to FR is a part of the game, but only a part. There's so much more to music than a flat-FR or Nyquist will ever describe.
> ...


 
  
 I know that I have used the refinement word in the past for describing the Mainline and by it have really been meaning beautifully balanced.  So often when listening to different systems or headphones they have some kind of emphasis which can lead to lack of balance such as treble emphasis giving the impression of detailed but week in bass. U shaped perceived treble details powerful bass (recessed mids) etc. So by refined for me this means superb neutral balance which for me  makes for a more natural sounding experience.
  
 The Mainline is seriously good when it comes to conveying that energy and rawness live music has. Listening to live recordings is one of my favourite aspects of the amp and they make for the staple of my daily play list.
  
 Like others here who have been down the hot rodded Crack and modified Sex route. The Sex for the money is a really a damn fine amp and fitted with aftermarket stepped attenuators and expensive boutique caps makes for a even more amazing listening experience. But then you plug into the Mainline and it really is just on a different sonic level.
  
 Crack and Sex have been great fun and are still very enjoyable. One things for sure I would have never ever even contemplated a Mainline build if it where not for the confidence and enjoyment building them instilled and like stepping stones they have lead to that Mainline final destination.


----------



## DDDamian

jamiemcc said:


> I know that I have used the refinement word in the past for describing the Mainline and by it have really been meaning beautifully balanced.  So often when listening to different systems or headphones they have some kind of emphasis which can lead to lack of balance such as treble emphasis giving the impression of detailed but week in bass. U shaped perceived treble details powerful bass (recessed mids) etc. So by refined for me this means superb neutral balance which for me  makes for a more natural sounding experience.
> 
> The Mainline is seriously good when it comes to conveying that energy and rawness live music has. Listening to live recordings is one of my favourite aspects of the amp and they make for the staple of my daily play list.
> 
> ...


 
 That is one of the best posts I have read yet on Head-Fi.
  
 I guess I shoudn't have had any doubts when it came to Bottlehead gear: the Crack is well-named as an entry-level marvel and at higher levels a true gem with a limited repertoire of headphones.
  
 The SEX just goes to the next level of (ugh) "refinement" in that it really does bring added dynamics and feeling across the board. That's a big blanket statement given just how far you can take a Crack and the many possible sounds you can get from it.
  
 Along the journey I'm valuing more and more that feeling in the real world of sitting in a room with performing artists (and especially musician friends) playing only to me - I hope everyone gets that experience at least once) and the magical moments that can bring. Re-capturing that is the holy grail of music. Not the mega-performance by a rock band in a re-purposed stadium or even a symphonic display from the 33rd row.
  
 Our language isn't great for audio description, and words like refinement (yes I've used it for the S,E,X) are the best we have. Your description helps bring some depth to that few letters. Awesome, and just tells me that the Mainline is where I'm looking to go!
  
 One last thing, out of place, I haven't stopped listening to this partly due to it's "refinement" on the S.E.X and HD-800, and partly because it just screams for it's acoustics and raw musical energy. Turn it up until the hiss is present and really listen to the emotion and "rawness" of the in-the-room experience. The more I get from that the happier a "sono-phile" I am....


----------



## JamieMcC

dddamian said:


> That is one of the best posts I have read yet on Head-Fi.
> 
> I guess I shoudn't have had any doubts when it came to Bottlehead gear: the Crack is well-named as an entry-level marvel and at higher levels a true gem with a limited repertoire of headphones.
> 
> ...




  
 Emma Mcgrath, not heard of her before but she looks all set to go along way. If this is the sort of genre you enjoy listening to you are absolutely going to love the Mainline.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

dddamian said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > When I'm out I call whiskey, bourbon, scotch, cognac "Brown Stuff" since I can't remember what is what.  But have started to like Louie XIII, JW Blue & Crown Reserve.
> ...


 
 Back when i used to experiment with tubes and amps this two bottles made my tubes and amps sounded really really good(or maybe i was too drunk to listen).


----------



## DDDamian

^^^ a true Bottlehead'er


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Those were the days before i become a CRACKHEAD and SEX addict


----------



## JamieMcC

I can confirm Grey Goose is best served straight from the freezer with a platter of sliced fresh fruit on the side. All served at the snap of the fingers by a pair of 21 year old blond *nieces* wearing leopard print bikini's!  Well that's what my Russian acquaintances introduced them both to me as


----------



## punit

So I tried this just for kicks : Noble K10 + Btl ML (thought too much power, will hiss,,,,), wasn't expecting great results. But wow...drives them amazingly well, better than anything I have tried till now (incluiding portable amps).


----------



## Loquah

LOL. I'll have to try that for myself now...


----------



## DDDamian

Now that will take big pockets to go portable lol


----------



## flying baboon

jamiemcc said:


> I was the only bidder and won (read stole) a Jupiter HT 3.3uf and 0.1uf capacitor on ebay the other week
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
How do they sound ? (compared to the Mundorf ?) Do you hear an upgrade ?


----------



## DDDamian

And wasn't there a concern on the BH forums about the wax-type insulator in the caps? There was some concern (and maybe a report?) of them getting warm and shorting? Don't mean to be alarmist - just make sure the ventilation is fine.


----------



## flying baboon

Put a fan into the S.E.X. Problem solved. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 EDIT : Bottlehead has launched a "Super Crack": the Crack-a-two-a! Still an OTL, but with a better power supply (C4S). It's in pre-order for 599$.


----------



## JamieMcC

>





> How do they sound ? (compared to the Mundorf ?) Do you hear an upgrade ?


 
 There are some very noticeable differences.
  
 The Jupiter's sound very clean, balanced and fast with good tone which gives nice sense of presence but comes across as more natural rather than coloured and sound to me a fraction more resolving than the SIO, this was a bit of a surprise, who would have thought that from Beeswax! 
  
 The Mundorf SIO have the edge with deeper bass texturing and definition and some of the gravel-ness texturing in usual male vocals is not so textured with the Jupiter's.  Mid bass and up the Jupiter's are really very very nice and I am surprised to be hearing new details not heard before. Perhaps a benefit of the Jupiter's feeling more evenly balanced.
  
 The Mundorf SIO I thought have the edge with instrument separation. For a example towards the end of Ruth Moody's track Pockets their is a Spanish style guitar playing in the background with the SIO this comes across really clearly and separated with the Jupiter's it is still there but just not so prominent remaining in the background.
  
 Some posts I have read mention the Mundorfs SIO have a slightly U shape signature with lower and upper register bias.
  
 Both offer excellent performance which one to choose I think is more down to system matching and personal preference.


----------



## NightFlight

dddamian said:


> And wasn't there a concern on the BH forums about the wax-type insulator in the caps? There was some concern (and maybe a report?) of them getting warm and shorting? Don't mean to be alarmist - just make sure the ventilation is fine.


 
 Jamie, 
  
 They don't specify that size on their site... are they made to order? http://jupitercondenser.com/product/round-beeswax-audio-capacitor/
  
 I would get an infrared thermometer and check the exterior of those caps after coming up to temp just to be certain. But then again you've been around the block, I'm sure you know this.


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> Jamie,
> 
> They don't specify that size on their site... are they made to order? http://jupitercondenser.com/product/round-beeswax-audio-capacitor/
> 
> I would get an infrared thermometer and check the exterior of those caps after coming up to temp just to be certain. But then again you've been around the block, I'm sure you know this.


 
  
 The sizes are available here in the UK from only one supplier and even then they only had one 3.3 in stock so I lucked out.  
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/components/capacitors.html
  
 The Jupiters used are the HT ones which are rated for a  operating temperature of 70°C.  To be honest I have never measured the Sex internal temperature partly because the top plate runs a lot cooler to the touch than my Crack did so never thought it a issue I also have a full width piece of 5mm thick aluminium angle section shoe horned inside which my chokes and attenuator are mounted I expect this helps somewhat with heat dissipation.


----------



## DDDamian

I've gotta think with a 70C rating you're fine.
  
 Edit: in fact - found this post by Paul Joppa basically confirming it: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=5316.msg73316#msg73316


----------



## Garbana

Hi all, I just ordered a S.E.X. and it coming soon. Now thinking to get some tools. I am a beginner and don't have any solder experience. May I know Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 60/40 or 63/37 is suitable for beginner ? Thank you.
  
  
 (Sorry for my poor English.)


----------



## JamieMcC

garbana said:


> Hi all, I just ordered a S.E.X. and it coming soon. Now thinking to get some tools. I am a beginner and don't have any solder experience. May I know Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 60/40 or 63/37 is suitable for beginner ? Thank you.
> 
> 
> (Sorry for my poor English.)


 

 Congratulations the Sex is a great sounding and very versatile amp. I would suggest if you have not done so then register on the Bottlehead forum they have a good selection of thread topics which you might find very helpful such as this one. Along with a dedicated Sex build thread for any questions.
  
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=173.0


----------



## DDDamian

garbana said:


> Hi all, I just ordered a S.E.X. and it coming soon. Now thinking to get some tools. I am a beginner and don't have any solder experience. May I know Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 60/40 or 63/37 is suitable for beginner ? Thank you.
> 
> 
> (Sorry for my poor English.)


 
 Congrats - as Jamie said it's a great-sounding amp. That solder would be just fine. I wouldn't want much thicker than the standard 1mm diameter stuff. Should be nice and easy to work with.


----------



## Garbana

Thanks Jamie & DD, I will check bottlehead forum. I plan to get S.E.X to pair with my HD650 & bookshelf speakers


----------



## NightFlight

garbana said:


> Hi all, I just ordered a S.E.X. and it coming soon. Now thinking to get some tools. I am a beginner and don't have any solder experience. May I know Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 60/40 or 63/37 is suitable for beginner ? Thank you.
> 
> 
> (Sorry for my poor English.)


 
  
 I've experience with good and bad solder. The Cardass Quad (http://www.cardas.com/solder.php) is perhaps the best solder I've used in running hook-up wire in audio. Can't speak for the Kester.


----------



## Garbana

Thanks NightFlight, is it this one ? 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KCTRYGC/ref=s9_hps_bw_g469_i1


----------



## JamieMcC

Thumbs up for the Cardas Quad here as well your link is correct


----------



## NightFlight

http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=135&cat=Cardas
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/solder_cardas.html
  
 Your amazon entry looks correct as well. The quad 100g is likely all you'll need. I ordered mine from Take Five, built a couple amps, pinball machine repairs and various smaller projects with quit a lot left. 100 grams at .032 seems to go a long way. 
  
 I also recommend a solder sucker if you don't have one. Some people use braid, but I've never gotten that to work right.


----------



## Doc B.

Kester is the Toyota of solder - reliable, easy to find, relatively nice to use. Cardas is the Lexus - more expensive, just as reliable and nicer to use.


----------



## DDDamian

Heh, trust Doc to find the right analogy


----------



## Demoninja

Quick question about tube rolling. During my browsing I saw lots of mentions about "matched tubes." What's the significance of having a matched pair?


----------



## Loquah

My understanding of tube matching is that each tube can have variations in it's maximum output. By matching them you ensure that both channels in your amp have the same level of performance. It's been explained to me once that this is only really relevant at peak outputs when you might be reaching the performance limits of one / both tubes and beginning to get distortion.

Amps like the Mainline have bias controls which essentially allow you to compensate for variations between tubes.

Hopefully I've remembered and explained this correctly. Others please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## dmhenley

Hey All.
My first Bottlehead build is complete! 
SEX 2.1 and C4S upgrade-

I'm running my Schiit Gungnir Multibit with it. Set it for 8ohms as I'm listening with both phones and speakers.Though I do find that I've very little volume range with my AKG Q701s, it sounds fantastic. 

Look forward to future upgrades.


----------



## Loquah

Congrats!!

The power output is high for most cans except planars. Have you got a little play at least? You could go to 4 ohm, but that might not be so good fir speakers.


----------



## JamieMcC

You also might be able to reduce the output digitally via your music software volume control to allow for more range on the volume pot.


----------



## dmhenley

loquah said:


> Congrats!!
> 
> The power output is high for most cans except planars. Have you got a little play at least? You could go to 4 ohm, but that might not be so good fir speakers.


 
 There's very little play before I reach max comfortable listening levels.
 I am considering the 'phones as my next upgrade, so we'll see.
 I listen to speakers almost as much as I do 'phones, and found 8ohms is best for my Lore.
  
  


jamiemcc said:


> You also might be able to reduce the output digitally via your music software volume control to allow for more range on the volume pot.


 
  
 I think this is a good idea. I'm using Roon-Tidal currently, so could easily adjust the output level from my pc.
 I have also read that using the software volume control could degrade the output? I don't know. ​


----------



## dmhenley

What about putting the Submissive in front of my SEX amp? Running the amp volume at 100% and use the finer adjustment of the Submissive?


----------



## JamieMcC

A couple of 50 cent resistors would also work


----------



## dmhenley

jamiemcc said:


> A couple of 50 cent resistors would also work


 
 True.
  
 The Submissive would provide me multiple inputs as well - which I need.
 All depends on how soon I think I can order a Stereomour2!


----------



## Loquah

dmhenley said:


> True.
> 
> The Submissive would provide me multiple inputs as well - which I need.
> All depends on how soon I think I can order a Stereomour2!




Looks like you have a new victim... I mean fan, Doc!


----------



## dmhenley

I've posted more photos and impressions here: http://thenewold.co/


----------



## punit

dmhenley said:


> I have also read that using the software volume control could degrade the output? I don't know. ​


 
 Not it the software uses dithered volume control (as per my knowledge).


----------



## dmhenley

I decided to install an Alps Blue pot to improve low level tracking, but got even more in the bargain.
  
 This pot allows me much more play in volume with my Q701's - where now 9:00 is comfortable, I couldn't go above 7:00 with the stock pot - on modern recordings.
  
 It was inexpensive and easy to install. Sounds great, and tracking improved too.


----------



## Loquah

Excellent! Was is a straight fit with no drilling?


----------



## dmhenley

loquah said:


> Excellent! Was is a straight fit with no drilling?


 
  
 Yep, no drilling - though I had to file the keyhole slot slightly to fit.


----------



## wahsmoh

I bought a BH Crack preowned and have an HD600 on the way. Can someone butter me up and tell me this is going to be a very good sounding setup?  I built it for my dad and I currently use the Alpha Dogs with Asgard 2 and old R2R Theta DAC (killer frankenstein combination)
  
 My goal is to create and end-game headphone rig for my dad which consists of EAD CD-1000 Series III (2x PCM63P-k, PMD100 HDCD filter/decoder) + BH Crack + HD600. Will the Bottlehead Crack sound good with a high quality R2R DAC source? Or does it have a smoothing sound over delta-sigma DACs which tend to sound harsher?
  
 I will experiment when it comes in but it has been a toss-up on whether to give my dad the Bifrost Uber or the rare EAD CD-1000 series III. In the end what it comes down to is what sounds better to his ears (or my own) and if he prefers a desktop versus CD-based listening setup.


----------



## Loquah

The Crack + HD600 combo is excellent. As you said, a lot of it will come down to his personal tastes, but also which tubes are being used. The Crack will always sound a little "tubey", but can be smooth and warm or quite bright and crisp depending on the tubes.


----------



## Garbana

I successfully built my S.E.X without any error. Silent background & sound great with my HD650. I love it .... I think next step should get an audiophile power cable for it...


----------



## JamieMcC

garbana said:


> I successfully built my S.E.X without any error. Silent background & sound great with my HD650. I love it .... I think next step should get a audiophile power cable for it...


 
 Congratulations I remember being thrilled when my Sex amp was first powered up


----------



## Garbana

jamiemcc said:


> Congratulations I remember being thrilled when my Sex amp was first powered up


 
  
 Thanks ... I am very happy when finish everything without any error. Because I don't have any soldering experience and this is a good chances for me to learn "how to DIY an amplifier".


----------



## wahsmoh

garbana said:


> I successfully built my S.E.X without any error. Silent background & sound great with my HD650. I love it .... I think next step should get an audiophile power cable for it...


 
  
 http://www.usedcables.com/ is a good site if you are looking for an audiophile power cable but aren't sure about the price. I bought a DH Labs power plus cable which is supposed to be a very good cable for significantly less than new. It made a difference, mostly in the bass and weight to the music. I use it with my Asgard 2 but I might switch it and try it for the BH Crack when it arrives.


----------



## masterfuu

hi guys, I hope someone here will be able to help. I have Bottlehead crack...great amp love it but there is small issue I noticed.
  
 When i listen to my Beyer T1 I start hearing slight tube ringing from the 12au7..... its like very small but noticeable pitch which seems to come and go. From super small pitch to slightly louder and again to super light pitch. Only noticeable when I have my headphone on my head and no music is playing.
  
 So when I slightly tap on the tube the pitch goes away for 10minutes or so. Then today I noticed something incredible. When I don't listen to any music but have headphone on my head for few min the ringing is not there at all.   So I tapped the headphone cable few times and guess what? The slight ringing started coming back. .. aka slight tube vibrations.
  
 So as somewhat of a tube noob what can I do to reduce the tube ringing? Its like I said extremely hard to hear and not a huge deal but I would be even happier if there was no tube noise at all.


----------



## Loquah

masterfuu said:


> hi guys, I hope someone here will be able to help. I have Bottlehead crack...great amp love it but there is small issue I noticed.
> 
> When i listen to my Beyer T1 I start hearing slight tube ringing from the 12au7..... its like very small but noticeable pitch which seems to come and go. From super small pitch to slightly louder and again to super light pitch. Only noticeable when I have my headphone on my head and no music is playing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You could try a tube damping device. You can buy these online, but I have also seen normal rubber o-rings used (I don't know how effective they are). I wonder if installing an o-ring / flexible washer between the HP jack washer and the Crack chassis plate would help isolate the amp from vibrations caused by HP cable movement?


----------



## dmhenley

Rewired the S.E.X. for 4ohms. About 30 hours in on the Nighthawk sessions, and it's a perfect match for me and my system.
 Trying to avoid hyperbole and grand statements here...really jazzed.
  
 Considering Jupiter caps for my future upgrade - anyone care to share experience with these?
 Thinking about the HT round caps to replace the parafeed caps.


----------



## JamieMcC

dmhenley said:


> Rewired the S.E.X. for 4ohms. About 30 hours in on the Nighthawk sessions, and it's a perfect match for me and my system.
> Trying to avoid hyperbole and grand statements here...really jazzed.
> 
> Considering Jupiter caps for my future upgrade - anyone care to share experience with these?
> Thinking about the HT round caps to replace the parafeed caps.


 
  
 I fitted some Jupiter HTs they replaced some Mundorf Supreme Silver Oils. The Jupiters are superb very even handed and natural sounding with nice density of tone. The Mundorfs on the other hand are also truly excellent I thought their presentation gave a more U shape frequency response. This slightly emphasised the sparkle and shimmer of details of the top end and increased texturing in the bass giving more gravel to deep male vocals. This effect made the mids feel slightly recessed imho with the Mundorfs. When it comes to soundstage separation and pinpoint accuracy the Mundorf SIO are really just awesome in the Sex the Jupitors are good but the Mundorfs really shine here.
  
 The Mundorfs are most definitely a more fun sounding and engaging cap and the Jupitors the more neutral and natural sounding for tone, timbre of instruments.
  
 Personally I like the Jupitors immensely I picked one up used for £9 and the other new for £60 would I pay £120 if doing it again for two new ones well the answer would probably be a no even though they are just superb and I love what they do.
  
 The two Mundorfs SIO I purchased new for £80 for the pair and I agonised for some time before buying them. Would I buy them again new well yes absolutely without hesitation the improvements they gave over regular films was easily noticeable.
  
 Both superb options but diminishing returns are at play.
  
 I also ran some Amphom tin foils in oil in the Sex which I enjoyed immensely with their saturated tone a nice upgrade from stock films but hard to find now they have gone out of production and not in the same league as the Jupitors and Mundorfs SIO.


----------



## mcandmar

^ what he said.   I'm currently using Jupiter interstage caps in mine (.1uf), and have tried Russian FT-3's and a few other fancy caps.  They are by far my favorite in that position, i posted more about them in my rambling thread on the Bottlehead forum.  I really like the Jupiters because of their natural sound and transparency, so much so i have used them in a few other amp builds since then. The FT-3's are unbeatable for value, about $8 for a pair, vs the Jupiters at $30-40 each.  For the output caps (1.5uf) i am using Mundorf SIO.


----------



## Doc B.

I would suggest you guys also mention the headphones and front end you used to make these judgments. One person's "detailed" could be another person's "harsh", one person's "mid scoop" might be another person's "flat, extended response", etc.


----------



## dmhenley

Thank you both! Your insight is much appreciated, - JamieMcC and mcandmar.
  
 I've considered both the Mundorf and Jupiter for the output caps. I have also hesitated due to the cost.
 I have read mcandmar's rambling thread as well.
  
 I've sold some other bits, so am ready to make it happen.
 The Jupiter are my first choice, based on the sonic characteristics. With my current system, I don't want to lose any midrange texture or touch.
  
 I'm curious, are you both using 1.5uf rated for the output caps? Had you tested others? 2.2uf, etc?
 I had seen a post from Paul on BH forums regarding deep bass performance with regard to speaker output.
 I am listening with 'phones the majority of the time, but until I build a 2channel amp, the S.E.X. will serve double duty.
  
 Darren


----------



## JamieMcC

dmhenley said:


> Thank you both! Your insight is much appreciated, - JamieMcC and mcandmar.
> 
> I've considered both the Mundorf and Jupiter for the output caps. I have also hesitated due to the cost.
> I have read mcandmar's rambling thread as well.
> ...


 

 Hi Darren
  
 Details of all the caps and mods I tried can be found here http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=6924.0 
  
 The Mundorfs were 2.7uf I picked them up in a promotion for virtually the same price as the 1,5uf elsewhere. Mainly because I remembered reading a few post on the bhf which suggested going a little higher in uf value wouldn't hurt if using speakers with the Sex which I do also.
  
 The Jupiter HT Bees Wax Papers are 3,3uf only really because I had a bargain via ebay.
  
 I carried out I think most of the mods to my Sex after following Marks's (mcandmar's) rambling thread and he kindly helped with some guidance whilst I was undertaking them. I have been very pleased with the results particularly liking the effect adding the two chokes and the flexibility offered by the attenuator I used.
  
 As the good Doc mentions its important to keep in mind the headphones used as this can have quiet a bearing on choice and end signature.
  
 I will start by saying coming from a hot-rodded Crack using Beyerdynamic T1's the Sex while better in so many areas I found it a bit lean or cool and toppy treble wise in comparison. Having spent a lot of time with the Crack and having it nicely dialled in with mods and preferred tubes for the  T1's which I was my go to headphone at the time.
  
 My main aim for doing the Sex mods and trying some different capacitors was to try and gain a bit more fullness and magic in the midrange for the T1 that I missed from the Crack and that I knew the T1 could deliver. The combination of mods and capacitors being the reasoning behind why I initially tried the Ampohms as they had a good reputation of delivering nice density of tone which was what I was after followed later by the Mundorfs SIO which easily delivered on this objective and I enjoyed the combination immensely.
  
 I really had not thought to much about experimenting further until I spotted a sigle 3.3uf along with two 0.1uf Jupiter HT's  listed on ebay I didn't expect to win them and was really surprise I was the only bidder and snagged them for just £9!
  
 While what the Mundorf SIO brought to the table was excellent with the T1's I was always  conscious the Mundorfs SIO had a brightness to them and I used the Mundorf 2.7uf SIO in combination with the Ampohm 0.1uf  paper in wax aluminium foils as interstage caps as this dialled them back just a fraction and kept them from crossing the line into sibilant territory with my T1's.
  
 The Jupiters on the other hand have never felt bright and give just as much detail but in a more cohesive and even handed way compared to the Mundorfs.
  
 I have since moved to the Sennheiser HD800 and found them to be less finicky than the T1 and sound even more glorious. From reading reviews I had imagined the HD800 was going  to be more finicky than the T1's with even more of a hot treble and was a little surprised and relieved when I found this not to be the case.


----------



## Doc B.

I'll also mention at this juncture that  - though not directly related to the S.E.X. amp - if you have high impedance cans like T-1s or HD800s and you want to play around with lots of caps, we have started shipping the Crackatwoa amp which has acres of room underneath for gigantic condensers.


----------



## dmhenley

jamiemcc said:


> Hi Darren
> 
> Details of all the caps and mods I tried can be found here http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=6924.0
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks again Jamie - this is very helpful. ​
 I went ahead and ordered the Jupiter HTs output caps 2.2uf - actually 25% off at Parts Connexion (no interest). Look forward to working these in - though I'll wait a couple months. Need to let everything else settle. New headphones, etc.


----------



## cspirou

Looks like Loquah is going to have to add a 4th app to this thread.


----------



## JamieMcC

dmhenley said:


> Thanks again Jamie - this is very helpful. ​
> I went ahead and ordered the Jupiter HTs output caps 2.2uf - actually 25% off at Parts Connexion (no interest). Look forward to working these in - though I'll wait a couple months. Need to let everything else settle. New headphones, etc.


 
  
 Sorry about your wallet! That's headfi for ya, getting 25% off is nice..


----------



## Loquah

cspirou said:


> Looks like Loquah is going to have to add a 4th app to this thread.




Haha. I'd love to, but my wallet got heavily clamped a while back with no immediate signs of relief. 

I can't complain though. My SEX with Mundorf SGOs and Mainline with Auricaps are doing Bottlehead proud every single day on my desk. The hardest decision now is which amp to use for the Nighthawks once I sell my LCD-2s!


----------



## dmhenley

loquah said:


> Haha. I'd love to, but my wallet got heavily clamped a while back with no immediate signs of relief.
> 
> I can't complain though. My SEX with Mundorf SGOs and Mainline with Auricaps are doing Bottlehead proud every single day on my desk. The hardest decision now is which amp to use for the Nighthawks once I sell my LCD-2s!


 
 Can I ask how do you have your SEX wired - for 4ohms, 8ohms?


----------



## Doc B.

I would suggest using 4 ohms output impedance with the Nighthawk.


----------



## dmhenley

Thanks.
 I did rewire the amp for 4 ohms after my first session with the Nighthawk. Sounds excellent.


----------



## Loquah

dmhenley said:


> Can I ask how do you have your SEX wired - for 4ohms, 8ohms?


 
  
 Mine's wired for 8 ohms and balanced (I installed a 4-pin XLR where the HP jack normally goes)


----------



## cspirou

loquah said:


> Haha. I'd love to, but my wallet got heavily clamped a while back with no immediate signs of relief.
> 
> I can't complain though. My SEX with Mundorf SGOs and Mainline with Auricaps are doing Bottlehead proud every single day on my desk. The hardest decision now is which amp to use for the Nighthawks once I sell my LCD-2s!


 

 If you already have the Mainline too I don't think you are missing anything. From what I am reading the Mainline is still the better amp but the Crackatwoa is for people that want a premium OTL experience. Basically the pricing is suppose to match the sonic performance of each respective kit. Crack+SB<S.E.X. 2.1<Crackatwo<Mainline


----------



## Doc B.

It's not just a straight more money = better thing. You guys will buy 6 different headphones for their different qualities, and my argument is that is only 1/2 (actually even less when you include source components) of the recipe. Each of our amps has a particular strength, like comic book superheros. The Crack's strength is certainly performance for the price with high impedance cans (think HD600), and Crackatwoa is sort of Crack with all the stops pulled out (think HD800). There are improvements in the circuit design that give you a refined sonic flavor you can't get just by changing out caps and tubes like they are salt and pepper. S.E.X.'s strength is power. It will run pretty much any headphone (think HiFiMan and other power hungry planars) and can run speakers as well. Mainline is, for me, a balance of our best circuit sophistication, simple signal path and component quality at a slight sacrifice power-wise relative to the S.E.X. amp to get there ( LCDs, but HD800s are great too and so are low impedance cans). Then there is Neothoriator which, for me at least, does it all (including K1000s). I should probably throw in Quickie and Quicksand for completeness. That's actually the least expensive headphone oriented setup we do, with the added intrigue of working off the grid, and I'd be interested to hear from more users who have tried it.
  
 Another thing to think about is tonal balance. I would say that brighter headphones with brighter sources will sometimes benefit from the S.E.X. amp's full and rich sound, whereas a more mellow rolled off headphone and a mellow source might be helped by the Mainline's articulation and speed.
  
 I kinda chuckle when I see headfier's with a list of 20 different headphones and one amp. IMO you can't possibly be getting the best out of each of those headphones that way and you would be better off selling a bunch of them and buying another amp or two that are known to go well with your favorites.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

doc b. said:


> *I kinda chuckle when I see headfier's with a list of 20 different headphones and one amp. IMO you can't possibly be getting the best out of each of those headphones that way and you would be better off selling a bunch of them and buying another amp or two that are known to go well with your favorites. *


 
  
 Oh my goodness YES!   +1,000,000,000!!!!


----------



## Loquah

Couldn't agree more and I love being able to flip between different amps to enjoy different sounds even with the same headphones.


----------



## M3NTAL

I still really enjoy the HD800 with the Smack. I'm always curious of what I'm missing with the Mainline though!


----------



## Loquah

m3ntal said:


> I still really enjoy the HD800 with the Smack. I'm always curious of what I'm missing with the Mainline though!


 
  
 Everything!


----------



## M3NTAL

loquah said:


> Everything!


 
 I don't know about that!      I put a nice TKD pot and upgraded the caps on the Smack. They were the only two things that could use a little improvement.


----------



## Loquah

m3ntal said:


> I don't know about that!      I put a nice TKD pot and upgraded the caps on the Smack. They were the only two things that could use a little improvement.


 
  
 Absolutely - I was totally kidding. Like Doc said earlier, different amps are about different sounds - not necessarily better / worse.


----------



## Doc B.

Not to stir the pot, but I like the Mainline better myself. A bit more power and a bit more resolution than the Smack. That said, we still use a Smack to monitor Tape Project albums being duplicated in real time - an application that requires high resolution and accurate tonality.


----------



## M3NTAL

doc b. said:


> Not to stir the pot, but I like the Mainline better myself. A bit more power and a bit more resolution than the Smack. That said, we still use a Smack to monitor Tape Project albums being duplicated in real time - an application that requires high resolution and accurate tonality.


 
 Thank you Doc. That is what I was curious about.  The Smack isn't my goto for Planar headphones (lack of power), but I feel it is a real nice place to be with the HD800.


----------



## Loquah

With my LCD-2s packed up for sale, I thought I'd give the HD800s some quality time with my S.E.X. and I'm really enjoying the combo as a different flavour from the HD800+Mainline combo I normally use. I guess it goes to Doc's earlier comments about the different amps. The Mainline is technically superior, but the S.E.X. has its own charms that I'm really enjoying with the HD800s.


----------



## dmhenley

Installed Jupiter HT (.1uf) coupling caps last night. Will give them some time before trying to describe the change to sq.
 With 8 hours in, I'd say the improvement is what I was looking for. We'll see. Output caps coming soon.


----------



## Loquah

That's in the SEX right?


----------



## dmhenley

Oops. Yep, the Jupiters went into the SEX.
 Just got the notice my output caps shipped! Ordered the Jupiter HT 2.2uf - excited to see how they add to the mix.


----------



## dmhenley

Now have approx. 30 hours in on the Jupiter HT output caps. Very nice - the change in sound quality is not subtle.
 Other changes in my system - tube swaps and NH cable break/switch - may be clouding the waters.
  
 That said, I'm getting what I wanted: Tone! Texture.
 More presence and touch in mids - acoustic instruments more fleshy, yet natural and wrapped in airy highs.
 So....the space they're in is more illuminated but the instruments aren't bleached out.


----------



## Loquah

Sounds perfect! What you're describing is quite similar to my experience with the Mundorf Silver / Gold / Oil except the SGOs might be a little thicker in the mids by the sound of it


----------



## dmhenley

Ya, for me, I think ive squeezed enough out of the amp. Very very nice.


----------



## JamieMcC

dmhenley said:


> Now have approx. 30 hours in on the Jupiter HT output caps. Very nice - the change in sound quality is not subtle.
> Other changes in my system - tube swaps and NH cable break/switch - may be clouding the waters.
> 
> That said, I'm getting what I wanted: Tone! Texture.
> ...


 

 Your impressions are very much inline with my own experience with the Jupiters. Good to hear they have worked out well for you..
  


dmhenley said:


> Ya, for me, I think ive squeezed enough out of the amp. Very very nice.


 
  
 Be warned you will need to scratch that Mainline itch sooner or later


----------



## dmhenley

Not cool! ...
Knew i shouldnt have read this..

I'm actually looking at the Stereomour2 for my next project


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Your impressions are very much inline with my own experience with the Jupiters. Good to hear they have worked out well for you..
> 
> 
> *Be warned you will need to scratch that Mainline itch sooner or later
> ...


 
  
 LOL. So true!


----------



## JamieMcC

I changed my dac a week or so ago and it has made for a decent jump in sound quality with the Mainline. I had been trying out a few different dacs over the last month and to be honest most of them were more similar than different. I did have big hopes for a Eastern Electric mini max (sabre dac with tube output stage) and had lusted after one after for some time after reading the many good reviews but it turned out to be a bit of a disappointment in that it was very close to my Marantz dac and not really the upgrade I was hoping for (still offers good performance for its price if buying used).  
  
 In the end I took the plunge on a pre owned Leema Accoustics Elements dac and wowzers it was clearly on a different level to anything else I had listened to before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 At last that nagging doubt of having the decent front end that the Mainline deserves is finally gone.


----------



## Loquah

That's great news! I'm curious to know just how good the Mainline can sound. I have been using the X-Sabre for a couple of years now and love it, but I sometimes wonder if there's more room for improvement. (My wallet just ran for the nearest exit!)


----------



## NightFlight

Yeah... I was saving up for the Yggdrasil, but I ended up dropping what I had on a 10ft Moon Audio balanced cable. The change wasn't subtle there, it being my first balanced experience. Awesome improvement across the board.


----------



## dmhenley

I made a major shift back in August, selling my Primaluna integrated to fund a Schiit Gungnir multibit purchase as well as the SEX for amplification - building up a new system with an excellent digital front end. The PL is a great amp, and sounded sweet, but, it was too much for my room/speakers - not a great pairing. Also, was using the headphone out on my Parasound dac at the time.
  
 Though the SEX is doing double duty - driving both 'phones and my speakers - I've been tuning it for my Nighhawks.
 I plan to build a 2channel amp - possibly the Seductor, or Stereomour2.
  
 And, then onto a turntable upgrade, and a Bottlehead phono pre.


----------



## Loquah

Ah, another Nighthawk user - great choice!!


----------



## dmhenley

- the Nighthawk and SEX pairing in my system is beautiful.
  
 Back to the Jupiter caps...I have to say I am surprised at the clarity gained throughout the whole spectrum. Highs to low end. I was expecting a more natural mid-range, but the improvement is more than I'd hoped for.
  


jamiemcc said:


> Your impressions are very much inline with my own experience with the Jupiters. Good to hear they have worked out well for you..
> 
> 
> Be warned you will need to scratch that Mainline itch sooner or later


 
  
 Did you find there continued to be changes to SQ beyond 50 hours of play?


----------



## JamieMcC

dmhenley said:


> - the Nighthawk and SEX pairing in my system is beautiful.
> 
> Back to the Jupiter caps...I have to say I am surprised at the clarity gained throughout the whole spectrum. Highs to low end. I was expecting a more natural mid-range, but the improvement is more than I'd hoped for.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Beyond 50 hours I wouldn't like to say but I have been very pleased with mine.
  
  
 ----------------------
  
  
 Merry Christmas all and best wishes for the New Year


----------



## Barra

Has anyone heard Bottlehead's new Nathonator?
  
  
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7888.0


----------



## spacequeen7

will be selling my BH Crack/Quickie  set up on ebay if anyone is interested


----------



## NightFlight

Plan to sell my Crack one day soon to fund my CIEM venture. But I'm not done tweaking it! I've got my first E80CC on the way. Its a nice S&H with the early "swastika" logo. Plan to upgrade the rectifiers to a set of Cree as well. Using the mainline as a base for comparison I find my crack went all left field thumpy thump thump with the 12BH7A in there.


----------



## saxophone

Spacequeen, I am interested in your thoughts on the DT 880 with Crack setup. It seems to spark pretty volatile discussions because some claim it boosts the treble too much and others think it adds flavor to the neutrality. What are your thoughts on the pairing?


----------



## spacequeen7

saxophone said:


> Spacequeen, I am interested in your thoughts on the DT 880 with Crack setup. It seems to spark pretty volatile discussions because some claim it boosts the treble too much and others think it adds flavor to the neutrality. What are your thoughts on the pairing?


 
 I only have 250ohm ver. but I would say I favor HD 650 hands down


----------



## saxophone

I guess the only way I'll know for sure is by bringing my headphones to a meet and seeing what I prefer. Thanks, @spacequeen7


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I have the DT880 600R nothing special about it with the CRACK not like the HD650 and CRACK.


----------



## JamieMcC

If looking at Beyers consider a pre owned T1, with the stock Crack its ok but if running a modded Crack it makes for a superb combination.  I hardly ever listened to my HD650's afterwards.


----------



## wwmhf

jamiemcc said:


> If looking at Beyers consider a pre owned T1, with the stock Crack its ok but if running a modded Crack it makes for a superb combination.  I hardly ever listened to my HD650's afterwards.


 
  
 I really wanted to know this. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## saxophone

What mods did you use, @JamieMcC ?


----------



## JamieMcC

saxophone said:


> What mods did you use, @JamieMcC ?


 
  
 Couple of pics of my how my original Crack ended up with a stock version alongside for comparison.
  
 Changes were film out put caps with Teflon bypasses in place of the stock electrolytic ones, Valab stepped attenuator, choked power supply (replaces one of the cement resistors) and the last electrolytic capacitor in the power supply swapped for a film one. The Speedball pcb's also have switchable operating points to optimize for running 12au7 12bh7 and E80cc input tubes.
  
 All these mods are essentially pretty easy to do and really involve no more than swapping out one part for another or adding a small switch and a couple of resistors for the Speedball mods.  All these Mods were taken off of the Bottlehead forum essentially I just implemented what a few others had done before.
  
 Roughly the changes mounted up to around $150 worth of components but these costs and the modifications were spread over about twelve months.  I found with both the hd650 and T1 they both scaled well up to a point when the hd650 kind of plateaued but the T1's just continued improving. 
  
 I might add the enjoyment  factor of building and then hot rodding the Crack was right off the scale, its a really satisfying and rewarding process and the end results were well worth the effort. I definitely would never have contemplated building a Sex or Mainline if the Crack hadn't paved the way.


----------



## JamieMcC

Just noticed there are two Mainlines listed in the classifieds that must be a first! Its a pretty rare occurrence to even see one listed.


----------



## skeptic

jamiemcc said:


> Just noticed there are two Mainlines listed in the classifieds that must be a first! Its a pretty rare occurrence to even see one listed.


 
  
 No kidding - and George's asking price is an incredible steal.  I'm half tempted to buy a second one for my office.


----------



## NightFlight

And miss out on the joy of building one? 
  
 I've thought about building another and auctioning it off on ebay just for kicks.


----------



## JamieMcC

You know you could take those Teflons out and probably get $400-$500 for them alone. The 10uf value is incredibly hard to come by only a very limited amount were ever available in the first place due to a mix up in a batch order originally produced  by RTI for Audio Research then discreetly moved on by TC tubes who are based close by.
  
 A few of which were snapped up by Bottlehead builders 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If you google image search "Audio Research Teflon" you can pull up a few pics of them in $20k plus amps!
  
 If it was 240V I think I might have been very tempted myself.


----------



## GeorgeNapalm

skeptic said:


> No kidding - and George's asking price is an incredible steal.  I'm half tempted to buy a second one for my office.



Thanks skeptic, I'm not trying to make a profit here, just want to pass the amp to the next Bottlehead enthusiast.


----------



## Kyno

jamiemcc said:


> Couple of pics of my how my original Crack ended up with a stock version alongside for comparison.
> 
> Changes were film out put caps with Teflon bypasses in place of the stock electrolytic ones, Valab stepped attenuator, choked power supply (replaces one of the cement resistors) and the last electrolytic capacitor in the power supply swapped for a film one. The Speedball pcb's also have switchable operating points to optimize for running 12au7 12bh7 and E80cc input tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 And your Crack sounds as good as ever by the way, still here safe & sound


----------



## JamieMcC

kyno said:


> And your Crack sounds as good as ever by the way, still here safe & sound


 
  
 Hey thanks your reply gave me a big smile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  its great to hear its still going strong and being enjoyed, I had a blast building it.
  
 Cheers
  
 Jamie


----------



## Loquah

I wonder where my old Crack has made it's way too.
  
 I've been quietly contemplating relinquishing my SEX recently as it doesn't get much use, but that might be a bridge too far...


----------



## theblueprint

jamiemcc said:


> Just noticed there are two Mainlines listed in the classifieds that must be a first! Its a pretty rare occurrence to even see one listed.




I am now the happy owner of George's Mainline. George's work is not only extremely beautiful, but has been a monumental upgrade in sound quality for my HD650. 

It actually feels pretty weird to be at the summit, with not much to look forwards to (without spending thousands more). Haha. 

Can't wait to try an HD800 on the Mainline too, but I'm pretty certain that I'll be sticking with the HD650.


----------



## skeptic

Both the 650's and 800 are just ridiculously good with mainline - you can't go wrong!  If you do ever pick up the latter though, make sure you give sorrodje's hd800 "french mod" a try, as described elsewhere.  It is derivative of what Senn did with the hd800S but costs about $10 and takes 5 minutes to install.  Way better than the old style anax/damping mods.  
  
 Congrats again on scoring George's lovely build, and welcome to the summit and the thread!


----------



## JamieMcC

theblueprint said:


> I am now the happy owner of George's Mainline. George's work is not only extremely beautiful, but has been a monumental upgrade in sound quality for my HD650.
> 
> It actually feels pretty weird to be at the summit, with not much to look forwards to (without spending thousands more). Haha.
> 
> Can't wait to try an HD800 on the Mainline too, but I'm pretty certain that I'll be sticking with the HD650.


 

 Hey that's great, congratulations and welcome to the bb. 
  
 But be warned trying the hd800 out can be painful on the wallet.


----------



## Loquah

theblueprint said:


> I am now the happy owner of George's Mainline. George's work is not only extremely beautiful, but has been a monumental upgrade in sound quality for my HD650.
> 
> It actually feels pretty weird to be at the summit, with not much to look forwards to (without spending thousands more). Haha.
> 
> Can't wait to try an HD800 on the Mainline too, but I'm pretty certain that I'll be sticking with the HD650.


 
  
 If you like the HD650s you should give the Nighthawks a go. Better in every way (IMO), but still rich and musical and sublime with the Mainline. So good in fact that I sold my HD800s!


----------



## theblueprint

skeptic said:


> Both the 650's and 800 are just ridiculously good with mainline - you can't go wrong!  If you do ever pick up the latter though, make sure you give sorrodje's hd800 "french mod" a try, as described elsewhere.  It is derivative of what Senn did with the hd800S but costs about $10 and takes 5 minutes to install.  Way better than the old style anax/damping mods.
> 
> Congrats again on scoring George's lovely build, and welcome to the summit and the thread!


 
  
  


jamiemcc said:


> Hey that's great, congratulations and welcome to the bb.
> 
> But be warned trying the hd800 out can be painful on the wallet.


 
  
  


loquah said:


> If you like the HD650s you should give the Nighthawks a go. Better in every way (IMO), but still rich and musical and sublime with the Mainline. So good in fact that I sold my HD800s!


 
  
 Thanks all! It's very welcoming to be greeted by three of the veterans in this thread... each one of your reviews were carefully read to ensure that the Mainline was a good match for me! 
  
@skeptic Yes, I've been following the mods on that forum to figure out what to do with the HD800 if I were to ever get one!
  
@JamieMcC Yes painful on the wallet, but hey, with the new HD800S out, now is a great time to buy an HD800! Also, since I have the amp figured out, most of the money I would lose playing around with pairings are now saved!
  
@Loquah Thanks for making this thread btw. I will try the Nighthawks sometime and see how they compare!
  
 Quick question about the Output Impedance on the Mainline: On the website, it said that low/high gain was 16/64ohm, while the manual states 16/128ohm. Does anyone know for sure? Also, what does everyone think is the best setting for the HD650/800, whose impedances are both 300ohm?


----------



## jodgey4

The best impedance is the one that sounds best... but usually, for dynamic drivers, you want a lower output impedance, as long as you can get enough power. The higher impedances will boost the bass around the driver's resonant area, which you may or may not like. The BHC is ~120ohms out IIRC, so you could try the 128 ohm output to check out what that popular pairing might sound more like.


----------



## Loquah

theblueprint said:


> Thanks all! It's very welcoming to be greeted by three of the veterans in this thread... each one of your reviews were carefully read to ensure that the Mainline was a good match for me!
> 
> @skeptic Yes, I've been following the mods on that forum to figure out what to do with the HD800 if I were to ever get one!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I personally found the high impedance setting preferable with HD800s, but as @jodgey4 says, it's all about personal preference. There's actually a lot of conflicting information about the pros and cons of output impedance and damping factors. Most of it tends to suggest that the lower the impedance (and therefore the higher the damping), the better, but a few scattered articles suggest it's not so cut and dry. I'd share the links if I had them, but I haven't kept them. Suffice to say, the best test is your ears and every headphone will be different. The best thing about the Mainline is you can try both just by flicking a switch!!


----------



## JamieMcC

Bottleheads in AUS or NZ might be interested in this listing
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mundorf-Capacitors-genuine-/131728485304?hash=item1eaba12bb8:gEgAAOSwf-VWZVks


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Bottleheads in AUS or NZ might be interested in this listing
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mundorf-Capacitors-genuine-/131728485304?hash=item1eaba12bb8:gEgAAOSwf-VWZVks




That's a nice selection. Almost makes me want to create a reason to buy them!


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> That's a nice selection. Almost makes me want to create a reason to buy them!


 
  
 Postage and import fees to the UK would be significant. I also spotted these which look a like they could make a interesting and cost effective output caps for the Crack add a $15 choke in the power supply and the fifth 50uf could should work fine in place of the last electrolytic in the power supply!  
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5PCS-50uF-850V-Vishay-MKP1848-DC-Link-Filtering-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-/262044284465?hash=item3d030e7631:g:IrgAAOSwQTVV8qd0


----------



## NightFlight

Replacing the last cap or bypassing I thought to be  really is one of the best audible upgrades. The bypass caps, will add colour, depending on what you put in. The M-Caps are fairly transparent and to my ears and don't affect the sound of the crack at all. They do a slightly better job with transients and detail than the factory, but I didn't find memorable change. I'd have to have a pair of Cracks side by side to really hear it. Ultimately I think the M-Caps outperform the power supply by a good margin.


----------



## JamieMcC

Mainline Tube Rolling 
  
 I couldn't resist trying the 6S15P in the Mainline and the results have been interesting there is certainly some noticeable differences to the 6S45P-E Gold Pins I have been running for the last 9 months. 
  
 
  
  
 So a few observations in comparison to the 6S45P-E Gold Pins, bearing in mind I only have been using them for a couple of days now.
  
 The general sound of the 6S15P is more crystalline in nature than 6S45P-E which I think sounds the more organic or analogue of the two. You could say the 6S15P has a touch of solid state about it compared to the 6S45P-E . 
  
 The 6S15P without doubt delivers a higher level or resolution its revealing lots of new little details and I have found myself several times now lifting my cans off my head to check/listen for sounds in the house which they were actually new details revealed on the headphones.  
  
 Treble comes across as crisper and cleaner with more headroom it is a slightly more etched treble. Listening to a orchestral piece recorded in a large cathedral the music feels like it’s soaring up into the high vaults of the cathedral ceiling and the shimmer on cymbals impressed.
  
 Mids feel a fraction less intimate and involving emotionally compared to the 6S45P-E however this is a area where the sense of presence and density of tone has continued to improve with run time.
  
 Bass seems tauter with a fraction more punch and a noticeable increase in its texturing.
  
 Depending on what genres your preferences are it’s got to be good to be able to roll tubes and still tweak the Mainline just a little to suit personal tastes. 
  
 The 6S45P is my favourite for folk/bluegrass or small ensemble acoustic music and feel it does a better job of delivering textual clues with a more natural and life like tone of solo instruments and vocals.  While the 6S15P digs up increased level of details of the wetness and hollowness of a note blown through a woodwind instrument the 6S45P is a fraction less resolving but to my mind delivers the more convincing tone of the note and woody-ness texture of the instrument through which it was made.
  
 The 6S15P comes into its own with more complex music and orchestral where its separation and air help with the portrayal of scale and crescendo while the higher resolution helps with digging out some nice little instrumental nuances from amongst the orchestra.  Before I turned in for the night I wanted to check out a couple of tracks on Florence and the Machine's Ceremonials album which is a reasonably busy album and ended up  listing to the whole thing finally turning in at 2am…
  
 Cheers
 Jamie


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> Mainline Tube Rolling
> 
> I couldn't resist trying the 6S15P in the Mainline and the results have been interesting there is certainly some noticeable differences to the 6S45P-E Gold Pins I have been running for the last 9 months.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks so much for sharing this, Jamie! Just when I thought I was done with tube rolling...
  
 So, is the 6S15P a straight swap? Any modifications required?


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Thanks so much for sharing this, Jamie! Just when I thought I was done with tube rolling...
> 
> So, is the 6S15P a straight swap? Any modifications required?


 

  Straight swap from what was posted on the Bottlehead forum it appears to be a earlier version of the 6S45P-E


----------



## NightFlight

I hunted around a bit, looks like its good luck finding them!


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> I hunted around a bit, looks like its good luck finding them!


 
 Mine came from here
  
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/240937-various-tubes-sale-15.html#post4608106


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

Just to let you guys know, there will be a 16% discount for nearly ALL products in Bottlehead in one day only - 29th Feb. I doubt there won't be a better time to get the fantastic budget Crack amp or the marvelous Mainline amp.
  
 http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=8903.0
  
 Happy shopping!


----------



## NightFlight

So Doc,
  
 20% in 2020?


----------



## NightFlight

jamiemcc said:


> Mine came from here
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/240937-various-tubes-sale-15.html#post4608106


 
  
 I think I snagged a pair. I thought the mainline ended my rolling habit. But look at me now...
  
 Did Yuri happen to mention how much time might be on them?


----------



## Doc B.

nightflight said:


> So Doc,
> 
> 20% in 2020?


 
 I don't even know if I'll still be selling amps in 2020. Might be spending the hundreds of billions we've made selling kits to run against Donald Trump in his re-election bid, or maybe I'll accept the invitation to go back with the Alpha Centaurians to their gas giant home planet after they visit Earth in 2018. 
  
 So many decisions...


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> I think I snagged a pair. I thought the mainline ended my rolling habit. But look at me now...
> 
> Did Yuri happen to mention how much time might be on them?


 

 I assumed they were nos as he had 27 available mine looked in good condition for their age the pins were clean and looked unused.


----------



## punit

Used Mainline Prototype for sale. Interesting, looks quite different from a Mainline :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/798783/bottlehead-mainline-prototype-headphone-amplifier-many-upgrades-balanced-outputs


----------



## Doc B.

Yes, it is quite different and the use of the name Mainline is not really accurate. It uses the same output tubes and pretty much all else is different. If I thought some of the differences in there were improvements they would probably have been used in the production version of Mainline. There's a reason for making prototypes before a design is finalized, you can evaluate the prototype and improve from there. It's probably a nice sounding amp and certainly has a nice cabinet and a very good looking layout. It's just not a Mainline.


----------



## theblueprint

@Doc B.
  
 Is Bottlehead coming to Canjam this weekend? I would love to listen to the Neothoriator again and the Mainline with the Tape Project.


----------



## Doc B.

Sorry to say we won't be there. We've had a very busy month at Bottleheadquarters with lots of new projects in the works, and we are committed to getting those finished for everyone who has been patiently waiting to see them become available. Maybe I need to come up with a DIY cloning kit so I can be in more than one place at one time.
  
 As regards Head-Fi meets in general, we will be hosting a meet at BHQ at the end of April. These meets have grown into truly worthy events over the past three or so years, and though not the size of a Canjam we typically see 30-40 attendees and it's pretty amazing just how much gear the local (meaning not only Seattleites but also Head-fiers from Portland to Vancouver B.C.) gang brings for everyone to try out. For those up for a little travel I think the meet could be a good opportunity to hear not only our gear but lots of other cool stuff too. Did I mention there's a craft brewery next door?


----------



## gab840

Building sex kit for beyer t1
At what ohm impedance output shall i configure transformer 
4,8,16 or 32
In manual btw its mentioned 32 for headphones


----------



## Doc B.

Yup, start with 32 ohms for the Beyer T1s. Nothing is harmed by trying different output impedance settings and I would encourage experimentation to find what suits your taste. If you decide to use lower impedance cans in the future I would suggest trying the 4 ohm setting, for best signal to noise ratio and a little more range on the volume control with sensitive cans.


----------



## suponaudio

Anyone try the Mainline with the HD 800 S's yet?


----------



## skeptic

I'm running my mainline with hd800's, tweaked with a superdupont resonator and cork mods (google it!) (which replicate the changes in the hd800s, taming of the 6k peak, but have significantly less LF distortion and less of a peak at 15khz, per Innerfidelty). It is headphone audio at its finest to my ears.


----------



## suponaudio

skeptic said:


> I'm running my mainline with hd800's, tweaked with a superdupont resonator and cork mods (google it!) (which replicate the changes in the hd800s, taming of the 6k peak, but have significantly less LF distortion and less of a peak at 15khz, per Innerfidelty). It is headphone audio at its finest to my ears.


 
 Awesome!
  
 The Mainline is next on my list, currently running a Schiit Bifrost Multibit/Modded BHC+SB with my HD 800 S's.


----------



## skeptic

suponaudio said:


> Awesome!
> 
> The Mainline is next on my list, currently running a Schiit Bifrost Multibit/Modded BHC+SB with my HD 800 S's.




Very nice! Mainline should be right up your alley - retaining that wonderful bottlehead house sound, but substantially improving on the already venerable crack + sb across the board. The resolution, transparency, speed and bass detail are all in a different league, and the beautifully refined trebles make it ideally suited for hd800(s). The build is also immensely satisfying and makes you appreciate the great sq that much more.


----------



## Loquah

Mainline with HD800 and I assume HD800S is one of the best options of there IMO. For me only the Nighthawks are better, but that's also a question of your taste in sound signature


----------



## dmhenley

Back in October, I rewired the SEX for 4ohms - I had just received the Nighthawks. I've since gone back to 8ohms. 
 While I lose a bit of play in the comfortable listening range, I prefer the sound quality. Mcandmars tweak to reduce the hum was a big help. Finally, the Jupiter cap upgrade was huge...3 or 4 months out, and I'm content with the SEX.
  
 Now, I am torn between a Mainline build, and the Stereomour2. I spend a bit more time with the 'phones on now, but I'm thinking it's time my floorstanders get a new partner.


----------



## Loquah

dmhenley said:


> Back in October, I rewired the SEX for 4ohms - I had just received the Nighthawks. I've since gone back to 8ohms.
> While I lose a bit of play in the comfortable listening range, I prefer the sound quality. Mcandmars tweak to reduce the hum was a big help. Finally, the Jupiter cap upgrade was huge...3 or 4 months out, and I'm content with the SEX.
> 
> Now, I am torn between a Mainline build, and the Stereomour2. I spend a bit more time with the 'phones on now, but I'm thinking it's time my floorstanders get a new partner.


 
  
 The Mainline is magic with the Nighthawks... just saying...


----------



## NightFlight

Which Jupiters are we talking about? I've been considering them for some time, but their price is just skyrocketing it seems. Or not... maybe its just the shock of reading the cost each time which leads me to believe that.   The 600V copper foil are a bit pricey.
  
 There's also the VT and HT which appear to be the same cap in a different profiles? Info is light on their site.


----------



## JamieMcC

The Jupitor HTs are really nicely balanced and Are very natural sounding they also surprised me with their resolution which was better than I had expected. They are a eye watering price I had the Mundorf supreme Silver Oils in my Sex prior which have more of a v shape profile which slightly emphasis the treble and bass regions. I thought the SIO offer better value than the HT at roughly half the cost and are in some ways have a more fun and engaging sound And a incredibly spatial soundstage. But if you like a more natural and life like tone and presentation the Jupitors are very good at delivering. I haven't tried the copper foils as yet and probably won't due to their cost.


----------



## dmhenley

nightflight said:


> Which Jupiters are we talking about? I've been considering them for some time, but their price is just skyrocketing it seems. Or not... maybe its just the shock of reading the cost each time which leads me to believe that.   The 600V copper foil are a bit pricey.
> 
> There's also the VT and HT which appear to be the same cap in a different profiles? Info is light on their site.


 
 I hesitated too, but a small discount available at the time sealed the deal.
 A shot of the output caps:


----------



## Doc B.

If you haven't yet registered as a user on the Bottlehead Forum, you might find it useful to do so. We will be sending out a notice pertaining to the Mainline to BH forum users who opt in for email notifications .


----------



## theblueprint

doc b. said:


> If you haven't yet registered as a user on the Bottlehead Forum, you might find it useful to do so. We will be sending out a notice pertaining to the Mainline to BH forum users who opt in for email notifications .




Will do! 

Please don't tell me an upgrade is in the works!


----------



## JamieMcC

doc b. said:


> If you haven't yet registered as a user on the Bottlehead Forum, you might find it useful to do so. We will be sending out a notice pertaining to the Mainline to BH forum users who opt in for email notifications .


 
  
  
 Hope nothing is wrong and they haven't been bursting into flame across the country 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I recently had a update from Whirlpool about my tumble dryer they need to send someone out to modify it as they have had a bunch of them burst into flame and burn folks houses down something to do with the lint filter.
  
 Fingers crossed


----------



## NightFlight

Those don't look like they are 10uF.


----------



## Doc B.

jamiemcc said:


> Hope nothing is wrong and they haven't been bursting into flame across the country
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I will assume you are simply trying to start some sort of internet drama with this, as our kits work just fine.


----------



## theblueprint

Must be something related to this. 

And anyone on the fence about the Mainline, here's your chance!!!


----------



## dmhenley

nightflight said:


> Those don't look like they are 10uF.



Right. They are 2.2uf - replacing the 1.5uf Solen.
I'm talking SEX. Maybe you're talking Mainline?


----------



## JamieMcC

doc b. said:


> I will assume you are simply trying to start some sort of internet drama with this, as our kits work just fine.


 
  
 No not trying to start any internet dramas here just speculating on what I hoped the notice pertaining to the Mainline would not be about.
 I was actually a bit worried for my wallet just in case there was a Nickel transformer upgrade on its way.
  
 But it seems you are running a great promotion deal on the Mainline and headfi rules meant you couldn't actually directly post about it. So sadly my wallet breaths a sigh of relief and thanks you.


----------



## theblueprint

Doc, is there a way to buy the new shields?


----------



## ssrock64

I'm considering buying an HD800, and I've heard some back and forth while doing my research about whether the Crack or the 32-ohm S.E.X. is the preferred Bottlehead pairing (aside from the Mainline, of course). I'm sure the issue has been covered a million times, but I can't find that information until the day Head-Fi's search function works better. Any thoughts?


----------



## Doc B.

theblueprint said:


> Doc, is there a way to buy the new shields?


 
 We are only packaging the limited quantity we have with a Mainline order. So I guess the answer is yes, you can buy them from us by buying a Mainline
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 I imagine they can probably be found on ebay. They haven't been manufactured in many years, but there is probably a supply of used ones around.


----------



## Doc B.

ssrock64 said:


> I'm considering buying an HD800, and I've heard some back and forth while doing my research about whether the Crack or the 32-ohm S.E.X. is the preferred Bottlehead pairing (aside from the Mainline, of course). I'm sure the issue has been covered a million times, but I can't find that information until the day Head-Fi's search function works better. Any thoughts?


 
 If you are considering S.E.X. I should mention that it is reaching the end of its run, as after more than 20 years of selling the kit we are beginning to experience difficulty in acquiring 6DN7 tubes. I'm sure singles and pairs will continue to be easily found, but our suppliers are not able to come up with the quantities we need for production. I'm guessing we have maybe 5 kits worth of iron left.


----------



## ssrock64

doc b. said:


> If you are considering S.E.X. I should mention that it is reaching the end of its run, as after more than 20 years of selling the kit we are beginning to experience difficulty in acquiring 6DN7 tubes. I'm sure singles and pairs will continue to be easily found, but our suppliers are not able to come up with the quantities we need for production. I'm guessing we have maybe 5 kits worth of iron left.


 

 Thanks for the information; I'll keep that in mind. If that's the way I go, I may have to end up on the used market, since I'm still going to be exploring all my options for awhile.


----------



## tdogzthmn

My SEX 2.1 with output switches is still going strong,  It's an incredible value, being able to drive both speakers and headphones with amazing results.  I enjoy swapping in and out of my system with a Stereomour and my Blumenstein Speakers.  I look forward to leaning about what might replace the SEX if anything can!


----------



## dmhenley

loquah said:


> The Mainline is magic with the Nighthawks... just saying...


 
  
 Hey Loquah,
 What's been your experience with the Mainline and Nighthawks - specific to output levels/noise - 
 And, where are the comfortable listening levels for you, etc.
  
  
  
 Thanks,
 Darren


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> I'm running my mainline with hd800's, tweaked with a superdupont resonator and cork mods (google it!) (which replicate the changes in the hd800s, taming of the 6k peak, but have significantly less LF distortion and less of a peak at 15khz, per Innerfidelty). It is headphone audio at its finest to my ears.


 
  
 Hi Mike, I fitted the French mod earlier today first impression are very good, appreciate the heads up.
  
 Cheers
 Jamie


----------



## mcandmar

doc b. said:


> If you are considering S.E.X. I should mention that it is reaching the end of its run, as after more than 20 years of selling the kit we are beginning to experience difficulty in acquiring 6DN7 tubes. I'm sure singles and pairs will continue to be easily found, but our suppliers are not able to come up with the quantities we need for production. I'm guessing we have maybe 5 kits worth of iron left.


 
  
 That would be a real shame as its a great kit. Have you looked into availability of the 6FJ7 tubes as it would only require a socket change for the compactron base.


----------



## JamieMcC

Repost from the BHF
  
 So out of curiosity earlier today I removed the 10uf RTI Teflon parafeed capacitors I had been using for nearly 12 months now in my Mainline (the Mainline  ships with a 10uf MKP) and installed the 2.7uf Silver In Oil Mundorf Supreme's that used to be installed in my Sex amp in their place. I was instantly reacquainted with the Mundorfs SIO's distinctive V shape sonic profile and spacious soundstage I remembered from the Sex. 

 So far I think they sound pretty good with the music I listen to and haven't at this point really perceive any immediate weakness that might be attributed to running a lower UF value.

 Going to run them for the week and then swap them out for the 3.3uf Jupiter HT bees wax that are in the Sex at the moment. 

 Cheers
 Jamie
  
 Edit the SIO fit quiet nicely by the way.


----------



## NightFlight

That's encouraging tha 10uF might not be required since the cost gets a bit steep there for the boutique selections. Your testing with the HD800 in the high impedance setting?


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> That's encouraging tha 10uF might not be required since the cost gets a bit steep there for the boutique selections. Your testing with the HD800 in the high impedance setting?


 
  
 Yes correct hd800 high and in balanced mode.   I picked up a 1 month old Meze 99 classic which arrived at the weekend its Impedance is given as 32 Ohm which I have been running unbalanced in the low setting.  It sound pretty similar on all the amps there are differences but generally the Meze keep the same character. I have tried them so far with Mainline, Sex, and the headphone out on my Leema Acoustics Elements dac. Even direct out of the mobile phone they are quiet engaging but the sonics do take a noticeable hit.
  
 Edit I might add I haven't tried the Mainline and Meze with the 10ufs installed


----------



## Loquah

dmhenley said:


> Hey Loquah,
> What's been your experience with the Mainline and Nighthawks - specific to output levels/noise -
> And, where are the comfortable listening levels for you, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for the super slow reply, @dmhenley, I've been dealing with some challenging times and not on here as often as usual.
  
 The Nighthawks pair beautifully with the Mainline. There is absolutely zero noise (and I'm very sensitive to / aware of noise) and the sound is magnificent. Given the Mainline's low output impedance mode, you can easily get the sound just right with the Hawks just as you can with the HD800s or other high impedance cans.
  
 I'm yet to try the Hawks running balanced out of the Mainline so I can only assume there is room for slight improvements, but they're so good in single-ended mode that I haven't felt the need to pursue aftermarket cables or modifications to the stock cable.


----------



## dmhenley

loquah said:


> Sorry for the super slow reply, @dmhenley, I've been dealing with some challenging times and not on here as often as usual.
> 
> The Nighthawks pair beautifully with the Mainline. There is absolutely zero noise (and I'm very sensitive to / aware of noise) and the sound is magnificent. Given the Mainline's low output impedance mode, you can easily get the sound just right with the Hawks just as you can with the HD800s or other high impedance cans.
> 
> I'm yet to try the Hawks running balanced out of the Mainline so I can only assume there is room for slight improvements, but they're so good in single-ended mode that I haven't felt the need to pursue aftermarket cables or modifications to the stock cable.


 
 No apologies. Hope things get better for you soon.
 I appreciate the insight.
 I know I will build a Mainline eventually, so it's nice to have feedback on the pairing with the Nighthawks.


----------



## JamieMcC

Ok so I need to confess I swapped out the Mundorf SIO, I had listened to them long enough to know their signature in the Mainline is not for me they are super sounding caps and I am sure their signature would appeal to many the 2.7uf worked well enough with the HD800 for me to consider the experiment a worthwhile. But here's the thing after listening to them for a couple of days enough was enough and they just had to come out there was no way I could last a week! 
  
 So it was in with the Jupiter 3.3uf HT Bees wax, I left them running for a hour or so and then put the cans on for a listen and just grinned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  there is absolutely no doubt they are just insanely good and in a different league to the Mundorf SIO which just don't sound anywhere near as natural to me. There are differences between the 3.3uf Jupiters and the 10uf Teflons but they are for the most part subtle each has its strong points the Teflon sounding super clean and are incredibly resolving. The Jupiters are more intimate with a softer richer midrange that's just so inviting with the HD800's! Both caps apart from these subtle differences sound quiet similar and both to me are beautifully natural sounding and beguiling in the Mainline. Probably I would stick to the 10uf if running a variety of cans to be on the safe side but if using higher impedance cans like the HD800 or Beyer T1 then running with a lower uf value boutique cap is definitely a option worth considering.


----------



## Loquah

Oh, the temptation to roll caps. Stop it, Jamie!


----------



## NightFlight

loquah said:


> Oh, the temptation to roll caps. Stop it, Jamie!


 
  
 Lolz. I was just going to thank him for delivering the real goods. That's quality info up there. Thanks Jamie!


----------



## Loquah

nightflight said:


> Lolz. I was just going to thank him for delivering the real goods. That's quality info up there. Thanks Jamie!




Agree


----------



## NightFlight

Well, it looks like it's that time of year again. Are you sure you don't work for pCX? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 ... wait, are you playing with the Copper or Aluminum foil HT Beeswax versions? I'm looking at the Aluminum 300V HT.


----------



## JamieMcC

The ones I have are the Aluminum foil HT Beeswax 600v versions.` I just keep a eye out on ebay and have had some nice finds. Last week I was the only bidder on Belkin PureAV PF30 mains filter and picked it up for the starting price £38 including delivery!


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> The ones I have are the Aluminum foil HT Beeswax 600v versions.` I just keep a eye out on ebay and have had some nice finds. Last week I was the only bidder on Belkin PureAV PF30 mains filter and picked it up for the starting price £38 including delivery!




Do you have any good search words you use to find relevant bargains, Jamie?


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Do you have any good search words you use to find relevant bargains, Jamie?


 

 I just use the normal search words like mundorf Jupiter etc and check out the new and used listing items . Mark (Mcandmar) put me on to the Belkin mains filter.
  
 It seems that sometimes sellers leave out key words so if a seller lists a say a GEC 6080 and if your looking at search results for "6080 tube" it might not show up in your search results.


----------



## NightFlight

I find not refining the search so much and doing the work to find the misplaced item can be key to getting a good auction deal. The fewer eyes on the item the better for you.


----------



## gab840

There doesn't seem to be any reviews/talk/impressions about Bottlehead Crack-two-A ......
 Its quite sometime now since they r released...


----------



## jodgey4

Just from the design specs, it seems that the -two-a has just better power regulation which should lower distortion and noise, giving more detail and a bigger stage... and probably more current output in non ideal conditions. This makes it cleaner and more versatile, whilst not losing the core warm tonality the BHC is known for. The upgraded attenuator will help with noise and channel imbalance.


----------



## Doc B.

Actually our stepped attenuator design will improve the resolution substantially over the stock pot used in both the Crack and Cracka2a. I'll be demoing a Crackatwoa with the upgraded attenuator vs. a Crack with all of the popular "Head Fi aftermarket upgrades" at the Seattle Head Fi meet at Bottleheadquarters an April 30th, so people can form their own opinion.
  
 There is a recent review on the Bottlehead forum:
  
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=9023.0
  
 and one more:
  
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=8937.msg84490#msg84490


----------



## gab840

Guys Just fininshed building Bottlehead Sex..
  
 When i am inserting headphone the sound only from right side is coming , when inserting half then from left side.I check all connections etc.
 What could be wrong ..??


----------



## gab840

on further checking..Basically its the black rca jack through which sound not coming..


----------



## JamieMcC

gab840 said:


> on further checking..Basically its the black rca jack through which sound not coming..


 
  
 Congratulations on the Sex amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  the Bottlehead forum is the place to get you sorted. If all your resistance and voltage checks were ok then checking all that channels connections and reflowing any that look dull or suspect might be all that is needed to get you up and running.
  
 Also I do have a couple of headphones that have slightly different shaped trs jack tips and occasionally with my Sex after swapping cans around moving to a jack with a different shaped tip it doesn't make a  proper connection on both channels when its plugged into the socket and this results in only one channel being heard I think this has been mentioned before on the Sex thread on the BHF but after a couple of in and outs all is ok. I have gently bent the connecting tag inside the socket which made a improvment.


----------



## Loquah

gab840 said:


> on further checking..Basically its the black rca jack through which sound not coming..


 
  
 So, have you managed to solve the problem now that you've found the issue?
  
 As Jamie said, head to the Bottlehead Forum for the best technical advice / problem solving. If you post your voltage checks over there the gurus will have you sorted out quick smart


----------



## gab840

Yes just some hours ago found that it was the left channel tube not fitted properly ,had to resolder some connection to provide enough space so as to tighten the tube plate and then fit the tube, and it started working. 
Also as you both have said will also Be going to bottlehead forum for some questions 

But the sex early hours impressions, what a clean and powerful sounds it provides, a vast expansive and powerful Soundstage
I hooked first my he400 instead of t1 and sex solved all the problems of it. Mids were balanced , treblr was not articulate as it used to be and then the soundstage ,It improved like a lot 
The powerful solid bass it was providing in that expansive soundstage (when he400 were already good in depth) and the solid attack of instruments, imaging, i was like 
while some of the tracks were a bit low quality (200-300 kbps bit rate only)
All tracks provided me smile goosebumps and something new to hear
It solved all the problems which he400 used to have(via fiio e17 to sex to he400)


----------



## dmhenley

I've got a stepped attenuator on the way - last mod for the SEX amp. Have an Alps in there now. I'm curious.


----------



## gab840

dmhenley said:


> I've got a stepped attenuator on the way - last mod for the SEX amp. Have an Alps in there now. I'm curious.


 
 Great ...Provide impressions post-upgrade !!!


----------



## gab840

Guys, Can you recommend a good power cable as my Sex Amp is of 240V and cant get the same from Bottlehead directly as they have for 120v only.


----------



## DavidA

Got a question on OTL amps, saw this posted in another thread in relation to the Crack, does this make sense?
  


> It means that whoever designed the amp either did not design it to leave the signal as unaffected as possible, or they didn't use good engineering practices when designing it. That's abundantly clear from the fact that it's OTL though, since that's a very poor design for high fidelity reproduction, so it was obviously chosen because the designer liked the imperfections it caused.


----------



## Loquah

That sounds like someone who's misinformed. OTL designs are popular because of their simplicity which gives excellent performance for the price. The zero feedback design actually does leave the signal unaltered as far as I understand it, but obviously the week influence the overall tonality of the sound. 

The Crack has a well earned reputation as one of the best amps around for the price and with high impedance cans


----------



## DavidA

loquah said:


> That sounds like someone who's misinformed. OTL designs are popular because of their simplicity which gives excellent performance for the price. The zero feedback design actually does leave the signal unaltered as far as I understand it, but obviously the week influence the overall tonality of the sound.
> 
> The Crack has a well earned reputation as one of the best amps around for the price and with high impedance cans


 
 Thanks for the reply, I was thinking that the OTL design was one of the simplest based on my very limited electrical engineering knowledge and why would there be so many OTL amps out there if the design was inferior?


----------



## Loquah

Exactly!


----------



## dmhenley

Stepped attenuator installed in the SEX amp today. $50 part from Ebay.

Driving 'phones: Higher resolution and wider listenable volume range are initially apparent, and in comparison to the Alps blue I had in prior. Sounds fantastic. I feel the low end is tighter too - maybe just more texture across the entire spectrum. 


One note: I definitely have to turn the volume up higher - even with the Nighthawks. It's not subtle. And, when I first tried driving my Lore (98db speaker), the difference was more dramatic. Example: with the Alps blue, and depending on source material - 10 o'clock on the dial was loud. I've a small listening space. With this new part, I'm going to 12 o'clock plus.  

Is this expected, or might I have created a problem during the install?
I can head over to the BH forums if this gets technical, but thought I'd throw it out there. I should add there is no distortion and I'm finally using the full power of the amp. No complaints.

What were your experiences going from the standard or an Alps pot to a stepped attenuator?
Did you experience any kind of break in with this type?


----------



## JamieMcC

dmhenley said:


> Stepped attenuator installed in the SEX amp today. $50 part from Ebay.
> 
> Driving 'phones: Higher resolution and wider listenable volume range are initially apparent, and in comparison to the Alps blue I had in prior. Sounds fantastic. I feel the low end is tighter too - maybe just more texture across the entire spectrum.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi I'm pleased you like the new stepper I have a stepped attenuator in my Sex it was fitted from the get go so thats not much help so cant really comment on how the stock pot sounded in the Sex I guess its exactly the same as fitted in a number of the BH kits.
  
 Its pretty sad to hear that the production of such a versatile and great sounding amp has come to a end. I enjoy mine both with headphones and speakers (Fostex FX120 full range drivers)
  
 However getting back on track here is an old post of some previous impressions of changing from the stock pot on the Crack to the Valab stepped attenuator. You will see they are generally in line with your own impressions.
  
  

 "Initial impressions with a few hours listening.
  
 Tubes, Mullard 12au7 and Tung-sol 5998, Phones Beyer T1 and HD 650's
  
 Most noticeable is an improvement in clarity particularly to the mids and top end.  Music seems to have more of a crispness and openness to it.
  
 Placement within the soundstage seems a little more precise. Instruments have a little more attack and bite to the leading edges of notes.
 I can hear some woodiness texture to certain wind instruments I had not noticed before.
  
 Listening as I type to Fleetwood Mac, Lindsey Buckingham’s I' so afraid one of my favourite tracks, is more forceful, darker the bass is tighter and has a touch of presence to it rather than just hearing it.
  
 My low level volume channel imbalance has gone.
  
 I was not sure how I would like the volume steps compared to the Cracks standard smooth action pot which I was familiar with in contrast the Valab seemed notchy when trying it before fitting and not very nice at all from a tactile point of operating (I came close to not fitting because of this and had an Alps Blue pot at the ready). This impression improved once fitted and I was adjusting the Valab with the knob fitted.
  
 I am really pleased with the Valab I have had it in my draw for a while and had been a little daunted as to fitting it because of the amount of de-soldering and rewiring that was required in my case and not wanting to wreck my perfectly working Crack in the process.
  
 IMHO the Valab has taken my BHC+Speedball +Tung-sol 5998 to a level of refinement above which I had been experiencing when running with the 6AS7G GEC brown base without the Valab fitted. My perception of performance of the GEC is likewise improved."


----------



## dmhenley

Hey Jamie - thanks for the details!
 I am very happy with the upgrade. Was thinking last night, that this was my final mod for the SEX. The Jupiter caps and attenuator are enough.
  
 It is too bad that they had to retire it. On that note - going to try and grab some more 6DN7's soon. 
 Now, onto the next project!


----------



## dmhenley

Alright, so....I was enjoying the new attenuator, and a couple days later the right channel went out. Being new to building, I assumed it was error on my part, and checked, re-checked and then re-wired one section in an attempt to correct the issue. after a couple three hours of total work over two days, I pulled the tubes and swapped them right for left. Right channel is back. Should've checked the tubes first.

Now, this is what Grandpa Rudy would've called goin' round your elbow to get to your thumb.


----------



## Loquah

dmhenley said:


> Alright, so....I was enjoying the new attenuator, and a couple days later the right channel went out. Being new to building, I assumed it was error on my part, and checked, re-checked and then re-wired one section in an attempt to correct the issue. after a couple three hours of total work over two days, I pulled the tubes and swapped them right for left. Right channel is back. Should've checked the tubes first.
> 
> Now, this is what Grandpa Rudy would've called goin' round your elbow to get to your thumb.


 
  
 LOL. Done that myself!


----------



## dmhenley

loquah said:


> LOL. Done that myself!


 
 Hey, 
 I wanted to update a comment we shared on the Nighthawk thread re: noise with the SEX and Nighthawks.
 I'm updating my analog chain, and picked up a tube (6922) phono pre this week. It sounds fantastic, and I've been doing some listening with the Nighthawks. There's almost no hum....so, the hum is worse when the Gungnir mb is plugged into the SEX. At least, that's my assumption. I've not yet tested this, but it was a surprise. Assumed it was the SEX, but perhaps not. The vinyl sounds ridiculously good through the NH, and in part because the noise floor is lowered.


----------



## rbc3

I use my Mainline at the office.  Yes it gets occasional stares and questions about what kind of weird science kit I have going on.  
  
 A recent post in another thread about TheBit Opus 1 DAP has me wondering what people over here think about double amping.  The Opus 1 does not have a line out and so I'm listening to music using the 3.5mm headphone out plug through the Mainline in to my headphones.  Does anyone else use a portable or other audio source that doesn't have a line out with your Mainline?  What have you done to avoid any double amping effect?  I'm not even sure I understand what double amping is because most home audio systems have a preamp with gain in addition to an amp...
  
 -Robert


----------



## Loquah

Double amping isn't the end of the world. As I understand it, the biggest issue is that you are placing more potential influence on the signal in the signal path and therefore may be degrading the sound quality. If you're happy with the sound though you should stick with it. 

I use the Shozy Alien with an external amp sometimes because the external amp has better control over the drivers in the earphones / headphones so it does sound better than using the Alien alone. 

In general, it seems to be common practice to raise the volume on the source quite high (often to max), but make sure you don't introduce any clipping and distortion into the signal. If you hear distortion, pull the source volume back until the distortion is gone and then a few more just to be safe.


----------



## rbc3

loquah said:


> In general, it seems to be common practice to raise the volume on the source quite high (often to max), but make sure you don't introduce any clipping and distortion into the signal. If you hear distortion, pull the source volume back until the distortion is gone and then a few more just to be safe.


 
  
 Yes, I just read that somewhere else the goal of turning the volume up as high as possible on the source device is to get the best signal to noise ratio as possible on the output.


----------



## NightFlight

jamiemcc said:


> Mine came from here


 
  
 Well, after months of leaving and returning to Russia (I imagine dancing/vodka/gypsies/cigars/vodka and the deep high seas) the beat up package covered in Cyrillic writing has finally showed! Initial impression is good. Gotta reel in the hype, only a few minutes in and will re-bias after break in. But I will reveal the 6S15P has ....
 nah. I'll keep this one quiet.


----------



## Loquah

nightflight said:


> Well, after months of leaving and returning to Russia (I imagine dancing/vodka/gypsies/cigars/vodka and the deep high seas) the beat up package covered in Cyrillic writing has finally showed! Initial impression is good. Gotta reel in the hype, only a few minutes in and will re-bias after break in. But I will reveal the 6S15P has ....
> nah. I'll keep this one quiet.


 
  
 What the? Did I miss something? Is there an alternate tube for the Mainline?


----------



## NightFlight

Page 97


----------



## JamieMcC

nightflight said:


> Well, after months of leaving and returning to Russia (I imagine dancing/vodka/gypsies/cigars/vodka and the deep high seas) the beat up package covered in Cyrillic writing has finally showed! Initial impression is good. Gotta reel in the hype, only a few minutes in and will re-bias after break in. But I will reveal the 6S15P has ....
> nah. I'll keep this one quiet.


----------



## Loquah

nightflight said:


> Page 97




LOL. Turns out I even commented on it at the time...


----------



## mcandmar

Here is some info i posted on the Bottlehead forum which may be of interest to you Mainliners..
  


> I found a bit more information on the 6S15P tubes.  They were manufactured in Friazino from 1959-1969 which is an interesting little town as it was home to a couple of different Institutes of technology and did a lot of development work for the military.  The tubes were later discontinued and replaced with the 6S45P which was supposed to be cheaper to manufacture.  Interesting feature of the 6S15P is the use of gold grids, and fact the mica spacers, getters, and glass are all subtly different is what made me curious as to who manufactured them.
> 
> For comparison i have included a couple of pictures along side a Sovtek, Reflector, and ElectroHarmonix 6S45P.   The EH and Sovtek are obviously the same tube, however the EH versions test better and are also perfectly matched so its safe to conclude they are just cherry picked examples.  The pair i have came in Woo Audio box's so its possible Woo did the matching.  Its also worth noting of the two sets of 6S15P's i have all four measure almost identically, vs the 45's which tend to be all over the place.


----------



## Loquah

You pushed me over the line! I officially bought a pair of 6S15P on eBay last night. Looking forward to trying some tweaks with my Mainline again. Hopefully it won't turn into an addiction!


----------



## NightFlight

I saw those. They were the same price as from Russia (and the post from the Ukraine is likely more reliable) the only dependency being the DOM differences. But I think they should still be quite close in spec.  I think that's it for rolling. I don't think there are any more drop-ins.
  
 When I biased the 6S15P to 145V (they were off by about -20V) then the differences between them and the EH tubes got smaller and it cleaned up a great deal.  But the properties that Jaime lays out are pretty much still there. I find it slightly less mid centric and more holophonic. I'm a sucker for the holophonics. Improved guitars/strings/space and slightly more punch in the bass are all welcome. Male vocals are a bit less emphasised but pretty much everything else is kicked up a notch.
  
 This is just comes from a quick listen before they've fully settled in. The impression of the difference was somewhat obvious after a swap, and then has lessened after biasing and continued listening as audio memory of the EH fades. Huge difference in audiophile terms. Reality? We're not so sure.


----------



## Loquah

6S15Ps turned up today. Looking forward to getting them out...


----------



## Textfeud

I saw that the Bottlehead S.E.X is discontinued. Will there be a successor? Wanted to buy one for planars and my Zu speakers


----------



## Solarium

My mainline is ugly, is there anyone who offer paint/sanding services? I want it to have a makeover or else I have to stash it somewhere out of sight!


----------



## NightFlight

Really? They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just spray it gloss black and be done!  Your listening to it, not looking at it.  Then again, I think mine turned out okay.


----------



## Loquah

solarium said:


> My mainline is ugly, is there anyone who offer paint/sanding services? I want it to have a makeover or else I have to stash it somewhere out of sight!




Show us a picture and we might be able to suggest some solutions


----------



## punit

The Oppo PM 2 is a great match with Mainline. My bedside rig :


----------



## Loquah

loquah said:


> 6S15Ps turned up today. Looking forward to getting them out...


 
  
 Interesting results so far with the 6S15Ps. I haven't done any bias adjustments, but so far my order of preference is pretty clearly as follows:
  

Electro Harmonix gold pin 6C45P
Russian 6S15P
Sovtek 6C45P (as supplied with the Mainline kit)
  
 More listening still required, but I'm shocked to hear again how good the Electro Harmonix are in comparison


----------



## Solarium

nightflight said:


> Really? They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just spray it gloss black and be done!  Your listening to it, not looking at it.  Then again, I think mine turned out okay.


 


loquah said:


> Show us a picture and we might be able to suggest some solutions


 
 Not exactly butt ugly, but still the paint job could have been better. The wooden blocks are also unpainted.


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Interesting results so far with the 6S15Ps. I haven't done any bias adjustments, but so far my order of preference is pretty clearly as follows:
> 
> 
> Electro Harmonix gold pin 6C45P
> ...


 
  
 Your 123 preference is the same as mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Which is kind of interesting because the 6c45p I have with gold pins are not Electro Harmonix branded.


----------



## mcandmar

Its pretty pointless to try and evaluate different tubes without correctly biasing them, especially with these tubes as the variance can be huge between them.


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> Not exactly butt ugly, but still the paint job could have been better. The wooden blocks are also unpainted.


 
  
 Looks ok to me but if you wanted to respray the top I think it would be doable with some careful masking up.
  
 Yours has the RTI Teflon signal caps I think doesn’t it? If so did you know they are more normally found in $25000 Audio Research amps!
 It seems that due to a mix up in ordering a small batch of around 40 capacitors were made to the right UF value but wrong physical size these were disposed by a third of party substantially below their original cost. Quiet a few I think were snapped up by Bottlehead builders. They went pretty quickly if I remember correctly.
  
 http://www.inner-magazines.com/news/209/57/Audio-Research-Anniversary-Edition-Reference-Preamplifier/


----------



## JamieMcC

mcandmar said:


> Its pretty pointless to try and evaluate different tubes without correctly biasing them, especially with these tubes as the variance can be huge between them.


 
 I think the bias difference between the gold pin 6c45P and the Russian 6S15P when I did mine was around 10-14 volts from memory. I have noticed my Mainline's bias point does tend to creep a bit so it gets a check every couple of months now.


----------



## Solarium

jamiemcc said:


> Looks ok to me but if you wanted to respray the top I think it would be doable with some careful masking up.
> 
> Yours has the RTI Teflon signal caps I think doesn’t it? If so did you know they are more normally found in $25000 Audio Research amps!
> It seems that due to a mix up in ordering a small batch of around 40 capacitors were made to the right UF value but wrong physical size these were disposed by a third of party substantially below their original cost. Quiet a few I think were snapped up by Bottlehead builders. They went pretty quickly if I remember correctly.
> ...


 

 How do I tell if it has the RTI Teflon signal caps? It would be pretty cool if it does!
  
 I mean looks is one thing, but sound wise it's absolutely superb, especially combined with the Mojo (even with the iDSD too).


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> How do I tell if it has the RTI Teflon signal caps? It would be pretty cool if it does!
> 
> I mean looks is one thing, but sound wise it's absolutely superb, especially combined with the Mojo (even with the iDSD too).


 
  
 The RTI Teflons look like these.


----------



## Solarium

jamiemcc said:


> The RTI Teflons look like these.


 
  
 I'm guessing not, do you mean the big white cylindrical things on the left and right?


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> I'm guessing not, do you mean the big white cylindrical things on the left and right?


 

 Yes.
  
 I remembered seeing a Mainline with a white top advertised recently with them in thought it was the same one as in your pic but perhaps not. Must have been a different one


----------



## Loquah

solarium said:


> Not exactly butt ugly, but still the paint job could have been better. The wooden blocks are also unpainted.




I'd have a think about treating the wooden base first to see if it helps. It's much easier than repainting the top and might balance the white top a little.


----------



## dmhenley

+1 for considering a refinish on the base.
  
 I've considered doing a make-over on my SEX amp, which has several flaws due to my meager skills and general impatience...but then I start listening again and stop caring about how it looks


----------



## Solarium

loquah said:


> I'd have a think about treating the wooden base first to see if it helps. It's much easier than repainting the top and might balance the white top a little.


 
 I agree, anyone specializes in this? I want a nice gloss wooden finish or better yet piano black 
  


dmhenley said:


> +1 for considering a refinish on the base.
> 
> I've considered doing a make-over on my SEX amp, which has several flaws due to my meager skills and general impatience...but then I start listening again and stop caring about how it looks


 
 Lol, yes every time I start listening to my Mainline, it doesn't matter how it looks anymore. This may be my end-game amp! Maybe at least until I can afford a DNA Stratus.
  


jamiemcc said:


> Yes.
> 
> I remembered seeing a Mainline with a white top advertised recently with them in thought it was the same one as in your pic but perhaps not. Must have been a different one


 
 Must have been a different one. How much different do these RTI Teflon signal cap's make?


----------



## Loquah

solarium said:


> I agree, anyone specializes in this? I want a nice gloss wooden finish or better yet piano black


 
  
 While it can be tricky to get the perfect finish, it's not hard to paint the base. I've done a few paint jobs now and so long as you can get a space that's relatively dust free and be patient in between coats, achieving a good finish is pretty straight forward with spray paint tins from a local store. Just buy a primer, some sand-paper and some gloss black paint and then chat to someone at the paint shop for some tips or watch a YouTube video or two.


----------



## Loquah

Look what turned up today... (Russian paper in oil caps). Not sure that they'll be better than the Auricaps I've been using, but interested to hear them...


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> Look what turned up today... (Russian paper in oil caps). Not sure that they'll be better than the Auricaps I've been using, but interested to hear them...




This will be interesting I really liked them in my Crack they had a really engaging sound and bypassing with one of those small value Russian Teflons I thought helped the bottom and top end. The Pio do take a while burn in.
Looking forward to hearing how they work out


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> This will be interesting I really liked them in my Crack they had a really engaging sound and bypassing with one of those small value Russian Teflons I thought helped the bottom and top end. The Pio do take a while burn in.
> Looking forward to hearing how they work out


 
  
 Just finished a temporary install (using screw terminals so I can switch back to the Auricaps later for comparison. It's obviously way too early to judge how the final sound might be, but amidst a slightly thick sound there are signs of some really engaging separation and texture to the sound. Much burn-in still required...


----------



## Loquah

loquah said:


> Just finished a temporary install (using screw terminals so I can switch back to the Auricaps later for comparison. It's obviously way too early to judge how the final sound might be, but amidst a slightly thick sound there are signs of some really engaging separation and texture to the sound. Much burn-in still required...


 
  
 Sorry for double post. I just wanted to record somewhere right away that my expectations are (probably incorrectly) biased towards the Auricaps. For some reason their combination of neater packaging, actual branding and new technology has me assuming the PIOs will come in a distant second. Looking forward to seeing if I'm wrong. For now, I've switched to the Sovtek tubes to waste some hours burning in playing games and leaving the amp running with music when I'm not using it


----------



## Loquah

JamieMcC, I just realised I have a pair of 1.5uF Mundorf SGOs in me SEX that is currently unused. From your experience with the PIOs do you think bypassing them with this Mundorfs would be a worthwhile exercise or too similar?


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> JamieMcC, I just realised I have a pair of 1.5uF Mundorf SGOs in me SEX that is currently unused. From your experience with the PIOs do you think bypassing them with this Mundorfs would be a worthwhile exercise or too similar?




It only takes a couple of minuets to whip them out. But I would also get some cheep Teflons just to see how a inexpensive set up will compare to the expensive boutique caps


----------



## Textfeud

I just received the Bottlehead S.E.X. and boy does it sound great. I'm using it with my Zu speakers and ZMF Vibro. The Zu speakers are 16ohm so I believe I should put the amp on 16ohm right? And 16ohm is MH on hi and ML on lo if I'm not mistaken? I don't have a manual so can't check. Hope somebody hear knows for certain


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> It only takes a couple of minuets to whip them out. But I would also get some cheep Teflons just to see how a inexpensive set up will compare to the expensive boutique caps


 
  
 I can't find any 1uF teflons on eBay, only 0.1uF which is 1% rather than the 10% capacitance that is the rule of thumb (as I understand). What value caps did you use, Jamie?
  


textfeud said:


> I just received the Bottlehead S.E.X. and boy does it sound great. I'm using it with my Zu speakers and ZMF Vibro. The Zu speakers are 16ohm so I believe I should put the amp on 16ohm right? And 16ohm is MH on hi and ML on lo if I'm not mistaken? I don't have a manual so can't check. Hope somebody hear knows for certain


 
  
 It's OK to play around and see what sounds best - just make sure you switch the amp off before changing any settings. The BAL/UNBAL switch should ideally be in BAL (balanced) for speaker operation and in UNBAL for headphone operation (unless your headphones are connected to the speaker taps with an adapter cable). As for the impedance, play around with each impedance setting. A higher setting (i.e. 16 / 32ohm) may be preferable for the extra driving power. It will raise the noise floor slightly, but you probably won't hear it from speakers like you would from headphones. Here's the page explaining the impedance switches.


----------



## Textfeud

loquah said:


> I can't find any 1uF teflons on eBay, only 0.1uF which is 1% rather than the 10% capacitance that is the rule of thumb (as I understand). What value caps did you use, Jamie?
> 
> 
> It's OK to play around and see what sounds best - just make sure you switch the amp off before changing any settings. The BAL/UNBAL switch should ideally be in BAL (balanced) for speaker operation and in UNBAL for headphone operation (unless your headphones are connected to the speaker taps with an adapter cable). As for the impedance, play around with each impedance setting. A higher setting (i.e. 16 / 32ohm) may be preferable for the extra driving power. It will raise the noise floor slightly, but you probably won't hear it from speakers like you would from headphones. Here's the page explaining the impedance switches.


 
 Thanks for the advice and the instructions! I like the 16ohm switch the best with both my ZMF Vibro and the Zu Soul Superfly. I felt the 32ohm gave too much noise and it had too much power for especially the ZMF Vibro. The 8ohm and 4ohm were just not powerful enough for the speakers. The 8ohm would have worked fine with the ZMF Vibro too, but I'm learning myself not to listen to headphones so loud anymore so that could be why. Anyway, I'm glad I like the 16ohm best for both the speakers and the headphone. I will go test balanced vs unbalanced for the speakers!


----------



## JamieMcC

loquah said:


> I can't find any 1uF teflons on eBay, only 0.1uF which is 1% rather than the 10% capacitance that is the rule of thumb (as I understand). What value caps did you use, Jamie?


 
  
 The 0.1uf worked fine in the Crack and worked wonders with the top end on my T1's. Just make sure the teflon capacitors chosen have the suitable voltage rating.


----------



## Loquah

jamiemcc said:


> The 0.1uf worked fine in the Crack and worked wonders with the top end on my T1's. Just make sure the teflon capacitors chosen have the suitable voltage rating.


 
 OK, great. I'll give it a go. Cheers!


----------



## Solarium

Has anyone got experience pairing the Mainline with the Fostex TH-900?


----------



## punit

I have both. IMO they don't go well together.the Th900 sounds quite lacklustre compared to other amps.


----------



## Loquah

I got around today to rewiring the Mainline using the 0.1uF FT-3 teflon caps that were in the power regulator board as bypass caps for the Russian PIOs I installed recently (I re-fitted the standard Dayton caps on the power regulator board).
  
 I'm not sure I'm really hearing any improvements from the bypass and by now all the caps in use are well burned in. On top of that I think the resolution and clarity of the Auricaps are preferable to the slightly thick sound of the PIOs. The PIOs do have a certain texture that's appealing, but the soundstage has compressed in width and the sound overall is just a bit too thick now I think. I might give this setup another day or two, but expect to be returning to the Auricaps pretty quickly now...


----------



## skeptic

I wonder how much of what you are hearing can be attributed to phase distortions caused by the bypass caps.  When I tried adding Russian teflons across the obbligatos in my crack, I liked the change at first but then became convinced over time that the sound was overall less clear and pulled them.  In hindsight, I am definitely happier with a good solitary coupling cap in each channel to avoid phase issues.  
  
 Doug at ECP comments on this on one of his early diy blog entries: "The note here is that this made a world of difference. Bypassing causes its own phase distortions apart from the ones caused by the low pass filter, and whether bypassing is a good idea in a particular circuit depends whether the good done by the bypass cap outweights this harm."  http://diy.ecpaudio.com/p/some-notes-on-coupling-capacitors.html


----------



## Loquah

skeptic said:


> I wonder how much of what you are hearing can be attributed to phase distortions caused by the bypass caps.  When I tried adding Russian teflons across the obbligatos in my crack, I liked the change at first but then became convinced over time that the sound was overall less clear and pulled them.  In hindsight, I am definitely happier with a good solitary coupling cap in each channel to avoid phase issues.
> 
> Doug at ECP comments on this on one of his early diy blog entries: "The note here is that this made a world of difference. Bypassing causes its own phase distortions apart from the ones caused by the low pass filter, and whether bypassing is a good idea in a particular circuit depends whether the good done by the bypass cap outweights this harm."  http://diy.ecpaudio.com/p/some-notes-on-coupling-capacitors.html


 
  
 You might be right as I think the sound might have been a touch better before the bypass. Either way, the Auricaps are still superior in the Mainline compared to the PIOs with or without the bypass. Thanks for the note though - very interesting


----------



## ZachPtheDude

Hey everyone. Happy early 4th! I don't post much on these parts but I've always lurked, but soon I think I'm going to take a break from head-fi (and HiFi in general). Thanks for all the informative posts; without you guys I never would have ever considered starting down this path with my first Bottlehead Crack (which I modded the hell out of, had to fit in with you guys   )

I am going to sell my unfinished Bottlehead SEX, thread should be in my sig; I think. I still have everything needed to finish it, and I wish I had the motivation but I lost a loved one recently and sadly hifi is the last thing on my mind.

I hope a Bottlehead lover or new-to-be Bottlehead picks it up off me.


----------



## Loquah

Sorry to hear of your loss. Take care.


----------



## deserat

Hey all. I've a Crack w/ Speedball. I alternate between it and an HDVA 600 depending on my mood. I do love the Crack. Generally speaking i like it better than that more expensive HDVA, hard to say why - just call it magic,  but it does loose detail and doesn't image as well. I'm running a Schitt Gungir Multi and HD 800's. I'm considering upgrading to either the Crackatwoa or the Mainline.  Has anybody heard the two amps with the HD800 and what are your impressions?  Is the Crackatwoa that much better than the Crack? Would the Crackatwoa w/ TwoQuiet match the Mainline given that I don't care about low impedance headphones.   Also any impression on the Crackatwoa before and after the TwoQuiet upgrade?


----------



## Loquah

I'm keen to read the responses to that question as I've heard HD800s with each of the BH kit amps except Crackatwoa


----------



## gab840

deserat said:


> Hey all. I've a Crack w/ Speedball. I alternate between it and an HDVA 600 depending on my mood. I do love the Crack. Generally speaking i like it better than that more expensive HDVA, hard to say why - just call it magic,  but it does loose detail and doesn't image as well. I'm running a Schitt Gungir Multi and HD 800's. I'm considering upgrading to either the Crackatwoa or the Mainline.  Has anybody heard the two amps with the HD800 and what are your impressions?  Is the Crackatwoa that much better than the Crack? Would the Crackatwoa w/ TwoQuiet match the Mainline given that I don't care about low impedance headphones.   Also any impression on the Crackatwoa before and after the TwoQuiet upgrade?



Check the past posts, experts like Loquah,jamie have all said that mainline n 800 are a boom-boom combo.
Also sale is currently on Mainline.


----------



## JamieMcC

deserat said:


> Hey all. I've a Crack w/ Speedball. I alternate between it and an HDVA 600 depending on my mood. I do love the Crack. Generally speaking i like it better than that more expensive HDVA, hard to say why - just call it magic,  but it does loose detail and doesn't image as well. I'm running a Schitt Gungir Multi and HD 800's. I'm considering upgrading to either the Crackatwoa or the Mainline.  Has anybody heard the two amps with the HD800 and what are your impressions?  Is the Crackatwoa that much better than the Crack? Would the Crackatwoa w/ TwoQuiet match the Mainline given that I don't care about low impedance headphones.   Also any impression on the Crackatwoa before and after the TwoQuiet upgrade?


 
  
 While I have not heard the Crackatwoa I do have the Mainline which I have found to be an amazing amp.  For me the progression was from Crack, Sex to Mainline and as you moved up the price range correspondingly the performance noticeably improved so I would assume the Mainline due to its higher price still sits at the top of the tree performance wise.
  
 In case you a where not aware the Twoquiet attenuator and BeeQuiet attenuator are essentially the same attenuators and this attenuator comes as standard with the Mainline.
  
 One thing I noticed is the Crackatwoa doesn’t look to have a balanced output like the Mainline does and I did find that I prefer to run my HD800s in balanced mode.


----------



## deserat

gab840 said:


> Check the past posts, experts like Loquah,jamie have all said that mainline n 800 are a boom-boom combo.
> Also sale is currently on Mainline.


 

 Hey I appreciate the RTFM.  I suppose perhaps I didn't pose my question properly.  Finding any information on the Crackatwoa has been tough. Other posters in this forum have done some really nice documentation of the forums stated goals.  Crack, S.E.X. Mainline. S.E.X. was replaced by Crackatwoa awhile back. Perhaps what I didn't adequately get across was my interest in this new lineup.  S.E.X. seems to be a product targeted toward people who were stilling deciding what combination got them to the ultimate high. Not sure whether you prefer to be highly impeded or lowly impeded on your path to bliss... try S.E.X. ... 

 The introduction of the Crackatwoa, says to me... "Our customers like Crack better than S.E.X. We know they like Crack better then S.E.X so we're serving up some better Crack. So we are making better Crack instead of trying to sell  some S.E.X that that you're not interested in... Oh, and by the way, maybe you'd rather blaze up some better Crack than Mainline?

 Or less metaphorically.  Is an amp designed specifically for OTL and high impendance headphones of the same or better quality than a more expensive amp that tries to serve all comers? Is the higher quality Crack circut as good or better than the less focused Mainline Circut for high impedance headphones. 

 One thing that was brought up to me was that the mainline has a balanced out.  Using the HDVA 600 and the Gungir Multibit, I'm familiar with the quality difference between balanced and SE. Perhaps I should have noted the HD800 are being run in balanced mode. The HDVA 600 is being fed balanced from the Gumby. The Crack is being fed SE from the Gumby.  The Crackatwoa would be fed SE and deliver SE. The Mainline would be fed SE but deliver balanced. 

 I guess an advantage of the Crackatwoa would be that I can transfer the Tung Sol 5998 and my Brimar 12au7 to the Crackatwoa.  Another advantage to going that route would be.. helping contriubute the to community of Crack Addicts who taught me how to  reach an aural high on the cheap. Because honestly I prefer the $500 in Crack to the $1600 in brand aware engineering.


----------



## Loquah

deserat said:


> Hey I appreciate the RTFM.  I suppose perhaps I didn't pose my question properly.  Finding any information on the Crackatwoa has been tough. Other posters in this forum have done some really nice documentation of the forums stated goals.  Crack, S.E.X. Mainline. S.E.X. was replaced by Crackatwoa awhile back. Perhaps what I didn't adequately get across was my interest in this new lineup.  S.E.X. seems to be a product targeted toward people who were stilling deciding what combination got them to the ultimate high. Not sure whether you prefer to be highly impeded or lowly impeded on your path to bliss... try S.E.X. ...
> 
> The introduction of the Crackatwoa, says to me... "Our customers like Crack better than S.E.X. We know they like Crack better then S.E.X so we're serving up some better Crack. So we are making better Crack instead of trying to sell  some S.E.X that that you're not interested in... Oh, and by the way, maybe you'd rather Crack than Mainline?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hopefully Doc will chime in and clarify this, but I think the S.E.X. was retired because they could no longer by bulk lots of 6DN7 tubes. The Crack-a-twoa may have arrived at the same time, but wasn't a replacement as I understand it.
  
 Also, the Mainline may not be focussed on high impedance, but it is highly capable of driving both sorts of loads (without a compromise) and I expect will clearly out-perform the Crack-a-twoa, although this is still speculation on my part. That said, some people might prefer the sound characteristics of the OTL design for high impedance cans. After all, who can really say what is "better"?
  
 If it were me, I would buy the Mainline every time because it is a stellar performer and much more versatile. It easily has sufficient power for any high impedance can going around these days and will only really risk falling short on power with tough planars (i.e. Abyss) and AKG K1000s.


----------



## mcandmar

What he said...
  
 Crackatwoa was not a S.E.X. replacement, it is intended to give hard core Crack modders a better platform to modify.
  
 S.E.X. was a speaker amplifier first, headphone amplifier second.  Personally i would still take one over a Crackatwoa as its a great little amplifier.
  
 Mainline is a clear step up from the other models, and combines the best bits of them all if you like. If i had to pick just one it would be a Mainline.


----------



## NightFlight

... in short, the Crack (original) can be a bit shouty on recordings which already posses this attribute. The Mainline is a little more subtle in this respect without loss of detail.  I can't speak to the other amps as I've not built them or heard them.  The crack E80CC / 5998 is a hard to beat combo on the crack.


----------



## Doc B.

Hi guys, I have been on an long overdue vacation so just now seeing this. The Crackatwoa was not intended to replace the S.E.X. amp. The S.E.X. amp is in limbo while we sort out what to use in place of the 6DN7s that other manufacturers started glomming onto due to the success of the S.E.X. amp, thus depleting the supply chain. We have had a POC prototype of the redo running for a while and and will be working up functional and production prototypes in the near future.
  
 The Crackatwoa is not intended to be a "better platform to modify". Not that you can't swap caps or whatever, but it is a more mature design than Crack in stock form. It came about because I saw so much of the "I changed a tube socket (or headphone jack, or the color of the stain) and incredibly transformed the amp" kind of posts. I felt like I should show users what I would do if I modded a Crack. Crackatwoa is a Crack modded with circuit changes that are actually audible and measurable. It includes shunt voltage regulation and a precise stepped attenuator, which are both very audible improvements to my ear. 
  
 It is not intended to be as refined design-wise as Mainline and to my ears Mainline is more resolving. Note I don't say "better sounding". Some people like a sound I like, and others like a sound I would call unlistenable. That's what this whole game is all about, choices. I do find the realism and resolution of the amps to go up as you go up the ladder from Crack to Crack/Speedball to Crackatwoa to Mainline to Neothoriator.
  
 So if you want to get what we consider our top line, best sounding kit headphone amp, get Mainline. If you use high impedance headphones and want a step up from Crack, but Mainline is too much of a stretch for the budget - get the Crackatwoa. If you simply want the best headphone amp we make, consider a Neothoriator.


----------



## NightPhotograph

doc b. said:


> Hi guys, I have been on an long overdue vacation so just now seeing this. The Crackatwoa was not intended to replace the S.E.X. amp. The S.E.X. amp is in limbo while we sort out what to use in place of the 6DN7s that other manufacturers started glomming onto due to the success of the S.E.X. amp, thus depleting the supply chain. We have had a POC prototype of the redo running for a while and and will be working up functional and production prototypes in the near future.
> 
> The Crackatwoa is not intended to be a "better platform to modify". Not that you can't swap caps or whatever, but it is a more mature design than Crack in stock form. It came about because I saw so much of the "I changed a tube socket (or headphone jack, or the color of the stain) and incredibly transformed the amp" kind of posts. I felt like I should show users what I would do if I modded a Crack. Crackatwoa is a Crack modded with circuit changes that are actually audible and measurable. It includes shunt voltage regulation and a precise stepped attenuator, which are both very audible improvements to my ear.
> 
> ...


 
 Is Crackatwoa's sound signature similar to that of Crack? As an HD 800 owner, I think it needs to be driven by a warm amp. Some warm amps lack clarity and resolution like La Figaro 339 which don't do the HD 800 justice, some are very clear and resolving but lack warmness. From what I've read, Crack sits somewhere between. It is warm and it's fairly clear. If Crackatwoa is more resolving and clearer and has kept that warmness, I'm all in. But if blacker background and higher resolution have been achieved at the expense of warmness, I think Crack + Speedball would be a better buy for me. Due to a dearth of information on this amp, only you can shed some light on what the Crackatwoa's sound signature is. It would be of great help to potential buyers like me.  
  
 Cheers


----------



## Doc B.

I would say that the perceived dearth of info is in part relative to the thousands of posts that Crack has generated over the years. The Crackatwoa has all the good stuff you are looking for from Crack, with a blacker background and a sense of better extension at both ends of the audio spectrum. Not louder bass and treble, but rather deeper bass and higher treble. It has the same slightly mid-forward tonal balance as Crack. Mainline, on the other hand, is more neutral. Thus you would probably perceive it as less warm. As an aside, if your HD800s seem too bright you might want to consider one of the mods that are out there. I find them a little bright in the stock configuration.


----------



## deserat

Mainline ordered.  Now begins the wait and the fear of screwing up the $1,200 build. Ya, like crack but straight to the bloodstream.


----------



## JamieMcC

deserat said:


> Mainline ordered.  Now begins the wait and the fear of screwing up the $1,200 build. Ya, like crack but straight to the bloodstream.


 

 Great choice


----------



## Loquah

deserat said:


> Mainline ordered.  Now begins the wait and the fear of screwing up the $1,200 build. Ya, like crack but straight to the bloodstream.




Exciting! Don't stress over the build. The Mainline is so beautifully laid out that I think it's actually easier to build than the SEX and maybe even the Crack w Speedball.


----------



## Doc B.

Generally speaking the kits have better and better manuals over time. So the more recently a kit has been released the more info that manual has to guide you through any potential areas of confusion or challenge.


----------



## deserat

loquah said:


> Exciting! Don't stress over the build. The Mainline is so beautifully laid out that I think it's actually easier to build than the SEX and maybe even the Crack w Speedball.


 
  
 Appreciate the reassurance. The fear is part of the high and the fun.


----------



## Doc B.

I wanted to mention here that we have decided to revive the Vintage Audio Listeners and Valve Enthusiasts (VALVE) DIY audio club that was really the start of Bottlehead back in the mid-90s. We'll be having a meet at Bottleheadquarters on October 15th. This isn't just a Bottlehead-centric kind of thing, nor is it just about headphones. Participants are encouraged to bring their latest DIY audio projects, working or not. We put them in the system and listen if they are working, throw them on the bench and flog them if they are not. You can also just show up and ********, and absorb some of the fun. I'm pretty sure I will be able to get some of the guys from the old days to show up. It was quite a peanut gallery, and a lot of great ideas came out of those meetings in the last century.
  
 We have a thread going on the Bottlehead forum where I would appreciate an RSVP if you are thinking about attending -
  
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=9435.0


----------



## Doc B.

Really? You can't say ******** here?


----------



## redone13

The instructions are top notch.  I had never even really soldered before and assembling it was still a breeze.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

deserat said:


> Mainline ordered.  Now begins the wait and the fear of screwing up the $1,200 build. Ya, like crack but straight to the bloodstream.


 
  
 Congrats on an amazing amp!!  Just take your time, enjoy the ride and make sure you put the fuse in


----------



## bigfatpaulie

doc b. said:


> Really? You can't say ******** here?


 
  
 **** NO!


----------



## deserat

Both Crack-a-twoa and Mainline are on sale! Good deals too.


----------



## dmhenley

Giving the SEX a once-over - new finish on the base and new caps. Now that it's no longer my primary headamp - looking forward to experimenting some more.


----------



## NightFlight

Pictures?


----------



## dmhenley

Of the updates? Yep - I'll have some this weekend


----------



## dmhenley

Intrigued by the new SEX amp announcement. Look forward to the details.


----------



## TeediuS

if anyone from aus has a few spare LEDs for the crack, and still has a couple left, any chance of a PM?  I knackered one when first putting it together (but had left it connected), and used a jumper cable from the other side.  it worked alright, but every now and again could hear some scratching, and went around resoldering and ended up toasting the other LED in the process!.  just being a complete tight arse trying to avoid $14 shipping charges from bottlehead website, for something that weighs a few grams


----------



## dmhenley

Ok - phase one complete - grey stain on the base. Wanted a weathered or worn look too. Several coats of minwax gloss too.
 Got some other things in the works.
  
 Oh, I had to stop and listen to it....it'd been months. Such a great amp.


----------



## Loquah

teedius said:


> if anyone from aus has a few spare LEDs for the crack, and still has a couple left, any chance of a PM?  I knackered one when first putting it together (but had left it connected), and used a jumper cable from the other side.  it worked alright, but every now and again could hear some scratching, and went around resoldering and ended up toasting the other LED in the process!.  just being a complete tight arse trying to avoid $14 shipping charges from bottlehead website, for something that weighs a few grams




I may be able to help, but need to check when I get home


----------



## dmhenley

Ok, so the grey finish on the base, white finish on the transformer bell, and a new volume knob. 
 That was fun. Even more fun that I went in for some Jupiter Copper Foil 1.5uf output caps.
 Amp's running now - can't wait for them to settle in.
  
 I also disconnected the speaker outputs, 'cause it's a dedicated headamp now.
 With the Yggdrasil's dual SE outputs, I can run both the SEX and the Mogwai.
 Dig the multiple outs!
  
 Eagerly awaiting more news on the next-gen SEX...


----------



## navar

dmhenley said:


> Ok, so the grey finish on the base, white finish on the transformer bell, and a new volume knob.
> That was fun. Even more fun that I went in for some Jupiter Copper Foil 1.5uf output caps.
> Amp's running now - can't wait for them to settle in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That looks awesome.


----------



## Doc B.

Just want to throw out the invite to anyone local that we will be having a DIY tube audio meetup at Bottleheadquarters this Saturday from 1-4. We are attempting to bring back the old club from whence Bottlehead sprang 20 years ago. The theme is to bring a project you have built if you have one, or just show up if you don't have a project but want to hang out with like minded individuals. There will of course be plenty of Bottlehead stuff around, but that is not the exclusive focus. We will be putting projects into the system to give them a listen if they work, and thrashing them on the bench if they don't. Naturally there will be lots of music playing throughout the day. My tolerance for audiophile demo warhorses is pretty short, so the music should stay interesting. And there will be lots of good discussion. The Bottlehead gang will be making a fairly strong appearance so there should be plenty of interesting technical talk and probably a few arguments. There's a winery, a brewery and a distillery all next door.


----------



## dmhenley

Output caps have been in 10 days. Been working from home so running the amp all day when possible. Most natural tone and texture so far from this little amp. So, added the .1uf caps - also Jupiter Copper&Foil. Whoa. Initially, one of the most apparent changes between the Jupiter HTs and these is the high freq extension. A substantial investment but I've found the amp to be competitive with other headamps so was inspired to give it an upgrade. With the mods it surpasses my Mogwai for natural tone, micro-dynamics and nuance.


----------



## Doc B.

> Eagerly awaiting more news on the next-gen SEX...


 
  

 S.E.X. 3.0 should be launching tomorrow.


----------



## dmhenley

doc b. said:


> S.E.X. 3.0 should be launching tomorrow.


 
 Yes!
 Thanks Doc


----------



## dmhenley

Hey All,
 I've got a pair 2.2uf Jupiter HT round caps I can sell. I ran them in the SEX for several months, but I've upgraded to Copper&Foil.
 Can post in Forums too - but thought I'd drop a note.
  
 Have a great Holiday.


----------



## mbyrnes

Subscribed


----------



## Textfeud

Hi guys, does anybody have the Bottlehead S.E.X 2.1 manual in PDF for me? Never received it when I bought it in the classifieds.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

textfeud said:


> Hi guys, does anybody have the Bottlehead S.E.X 2.1 manual in PDF for me? Never received it when I bought it in the classifieds.


 
  
 I think @Doc B. asks that people do not distribute the documentation as it is copyrighted etc...  Perhaps ask him directly.


----------



## NightFlight

+1
  
 I would log into http://bottlehead.com/ and get they're attention over there. Provide some sort of proof you have a kit.


----------



## Textfeud

Will do, thanks guys!


----------



## deserat

Been slowly building the Mainline I bought a few months back for the last two weeks. Hour or two each night. It's been a very enjoyable experience. The mainline is definitely  a more advanced build than the Crack in that there are a lot of smaller components, and tighter solder joints, more precise stripping etc... but it also feels like the layout is cleaner, less crammed together. Less of a rats nest of cables - which makes it easier to see what I'm doing. Just finished the stepped attenuators which is my favorite part of the build so far... something very cathartic about the symmetry there.  I think I'm going to be sad when the build is done.   But I bought the crackatwoa when it was on sell too, so I guess I get to do the attenuator build on that in a few months. 

 Happy New Years all.


----------



## NightPhotograph

deserat said:


> Been slowly building the Mainline I bought a few months back for the last two weeks. Hour or two each night. It's been a very enjoyable experience. The mainline is definitely  a more advanced build than the Crack in that there are a lot of smaller components, and tighter solder joints, more precise stripping etc... but it also feels like the layout is cleaner, less crammed together. Less of a rats nest of cables - which makes it easier to see what I'm doing. Just finished the stepped attenuators which is my favorite part of the build so far... something very cathartic about the symmetry there.  I think I'm going to be sad when the build is done.   But I bought the crackatwoa when it was on sell too, so I guess I get to do the attenuator build on that in a few months.
> 
> Happy New Years all.


 
 I see you have HD800, Mainline, and Crackatwoa. That's great news for me since I own the HD800 and am going back and forth between these two amps but cannot make my mind. I would really appreciate it if you could share your findings with me when you are done with the build.
  
 Happy New Year


----------



## deserat

nightphotograph said:


> I see you have HD800, Mainline, and Crackatwoa. That's great news for me since I own the HD800 and am going back and forth between these two amps but cannot make my mind. I would really appreciate it if you could share your findings with me when you are done with the build.
> 
> Happy New Year


 
 I will.  Though it'll be awhile for the Crackatwoa - maybe Feb or March.  I'll be focusing more on customizing the look of that amp and am still learning to do some of the things I want to do to it.  

 If you read a few pages back into the thread Doc offers up his thoughts on difference between the two. Which is the best description I've read anywhere. Unfortunately I've not been able to find a single review or decent set off impressions for the Crackatwoa outside of the one in the Bottlehead Forum.  Reviews are even sparse for the mainline, outside of this forum, I've not found one.  I do however see the mainline brought up in discussions where the primary focus is amps like the  DNA Stratus and Eddie Current Zana Deux and being dismissed mostly because it has to be built.  

 Anyway... will review the Mainline a couple weeks from now.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

deserat said:


> I will.  Though it'll be awhile for the Crackatwoa - maybe Feb or March.  I'll be focusing more on customizing the look of that amp and am still learning to do some of the things I want to do to it.
> 
> If you read a few pages back into the thread Doc offers up his thoughts on difference between the two. Which is the best description I've read anywhere. Unfortunately I've not been able to find a single review or decent set off impressions for the Crackatwoa outside of the one in the Bottlehead Forum.  Reviews are even sparse for the mainline, outside of this forum, I've not found one.  I do however see the mainline brought up in discussions where the primary focus is amps like the  DNA Stratus and Eddie Current Zana Deux and being dismissed mostly because it has to be built.
> 
> Anyway... will review the Mainline a couple weeks from now.


 
  
 I actually did the comparison between the Mainline and Stratus a while back here.  The Mainline was not dismissed because of having to be built in (at least certainly in my case) and both are excellent amps.


----------



## deserat

bigfatpaulie said:


> I actually did the comparison between the Mainline and Stratus a while back here.  The Mainline was not dismissed because of having to be built in (at least certainly in my case) and both are excellent amps.


 
 I'd forgotten your post. Sorry, because as I re-read it I very much enjoyed it and even recall having appreciated it when I read it months and months ago. There are a number of threads on TOTL headphone amps both on head-fi and elsewhere where the mainline is fired at the same target as the best possible amps.  Which is to say for 1,200 and a bit of effort one is playing in the same category as the amps costing substantially more.

 The truth is, I don't know if it can even compete. I have to trust others. There are three things I do know; 1) the Crackatwoa never makes it into these threads. 2) Nobody ever shoots down the Mainline as being unworthy and it is often praised in passing as being worthy 3) Once you get into this world EVERYBODY says "to my ears" and "I prefer" which is akin to saying "don't listen to me cause I'm fulla schiit 2" .  I've never heard the Mainline and when it is complete the only Amp in the TOTL category I will have to compare it with is the HDVA 600. I really hope a warm shot Mainlined will  put the HDVA into an early grave. I mean... what does HDVA stand for anyway? High Definition Vacuous Amplifer - "You can hear everything thing but we vacuumed out anything which might result in an endorphin?"

 Anyway I meant no offense or mis-attribution. As somebody who has only seen pictures of the mythic DNA Stratus .... I would be grateful to read all 6 pages of the comparison you didn't post. Of course I find myself amongst those who really like the idea of DIY, but both doubt our own ability to build something amazing to a professional QA standard, and having built it are left wondering ... is the fact that I built it distorting the sound?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

deserat said:


> I'd forgotten your post. Sorry, because as I re-read it I very much enjoyed it and even recall having appreciated it when I read it months and months ago. There are a number of threads on TOTL headphone amps both on head-fi and elsewhere where the mainline is fired at the same target as the best possible amps.  Which is to say for 1,200 and a bit of effort one is playing in the same category as the amps costing substantially more.
> 
> The truth is, I don't know if it can even compete. I have to trust others. There are three things I do know; 1) the Crackatwoa never makes it into these threads. 2) Nobody ever shoots down the Mainline as being unworthy and it is often praised in passing as being worthy 3) Once you get into this world EVERYBODY says "to my ears" and "I prefer" which is akin to saying "don't listen to me cause I'm fulla schiit 2" .  I've never heard the Mainline and when it is complete the only Amp in the TOTL category I will have to compare it with is the HDVA 600. I really hope a warm shot Mainlined will  put the HDVA into an early grave. I mean... what does HDVA stand for anyway? High Definition Vacuous Amplifer - "You can hear everything thing but we vacuumed out anything which might result in an endorphin?"
> 
> Anyway I meant no offense or mis-attribution. As somebody who has only seen pictures of the mythic DNA Stratus .... I would be grateful to read all 6 pages of the comparison you didn't post. Of course I find myself amongst those who really like the idea of DIY, but both doubt our own ability to build something amazing to a professional QA standard, and having built it are left wondering ... is the fact that I built it distorting the sound?


 
  
  
 Well, I won't post my 6 pages of ramblings - heck I'm not sure I still have them - but I can tell you than these products are all accordingly priced.  The Mainline isn't a Stratus or Balancing Act.  Not only are there presentation differences there are performance differences.  In life, there are no free rides.
  
 Ultimately, I'm not entirely sure what you are asking: I'd like to help but...
  
 One thing very special thing that the Mainline (and BH products in general) has is the build it yourself aspect.  Just take your time and savor it.  The build is so much fun and Doc provides the best documentation I've seen in any kit - period.  In addition he is an extremely helpful patient man should you need extra help or forget to install a fuse.  It could happen is all I'm saying...


----------



## Loquah

I have turned over every bit of gear I've owned since before and after building the Mainline, but nothing I've heard justifies considering parting with the Mainline. This is partly due to the personal connection you make when you build your own amp, but also because it sounds so great, particularly for the price.


----------



## Starburp701

Can anyone who owns/has owned an original Lyr justify ordering a S.E.x 3.0? Maybe a brief comparison? I'll be using it with 2016 Aluminum LCD 2's. Thanks!


----------



## dannybgoode

I'm looking to enter the world of Bottlehead ownership but am unsure which way to go. 

I'm not too interested at this stage in modding-just want to stick with stock atm. 

I notice the Crackatwoa is on offer with a free Twoquiet upgrade until 12 Feb and this is tempting me but is the SEX the better amp?

Of course there's always the mainline-again is this worth the extra $$$.

Appreciate any thoughts.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

dannybgoode said:


> I'm looking to enter the world of Bottlehead ownership but am unsure which way to go.
> 
> I'm not too interested at this stage in modding-just want to stick with stock atm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What kind of headphones are you using?


----------



## dannybgoode

bigfatpaulie said:


> What kind of headphones are you using?


 

Apologies should have said. Beyerdynamic T1.2's and will be fed by a Rega DAC (the original not the R).

Music-everything across pretty much all the genres. Not entirely helpful I appreciate but I really do listen to everything from a delicate piano sonata to the most hideous gabba.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I would go with a crackatowa or it finds allow the mainline. The sex is better for lower impedance high current stuff like big orthors. It's not as good a fit as the other two for the T1's.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I should add that they crack is a very fun amp. The technicalities, however, are bested by the mainline. The mainline is an "end game" amp and is really special. I guess it really depends on if you are looking to dip your toe in or go full bore with tubes. My suspicion is that if you get the crack you will eventually upgrade to the mainline. But that's my opinion. Others may differ.


----------



## NightFlight

Nah, that's bang on.   As for the Lyr - it does well with top tier tubes.


----------



## mbyrnes

bigfatpaulie said:


> I should add that they crack is a very fun amp. The technicalities, however, are bested by the mainline. The mainline is an "end game" amp and is really special. *I guess it really depends on if you are looking to dip your toe in or go full bore with tubes. My suspicion is that if you get the crack you will eventually upgrade to the mainline. But that's my opinion. Others may differ*.




Agree 100%. If you can afford the Mainline, go for that. The other, less expensive amps are really good, but you'll truly end up wondering "How much better can the Mainline be?". Then you'll read threads of people who climbed the lineup, and are truly blown away with the difference. 

Budget is the barrier, and how much time do you spend listening. Good luck deciding. OTL amps aren't very good with low impedance headphones. It's something to consider, especially if you are planning on future headphones.


----------



## dannybgoode

Thanks all. Well I can afford a Mainline and I can't see myself buying a ton of 'phones. I really like the Beyer sound and really don't get on with Sennies so unless I seriously up the budget I can't see what else is try. 

Will have a mull over the weekend...


----------



## Starburp701

Does anyone here have experience with a Lyr/LCD 2.2 F setup and also own a S.E.X.? I would like to know if you would considered an "upgrade".


----------



## Loquah

dannybgoode said:


> Thanks all. Well I can afford a Mainline and I can't see myself buying a ton of 'phones. I really like the Beyer sound and really don't get on with Sennies so unless I seriously up the budget I can't see what else is try.
> 
> Will have a mull over the weekend...




How did the mulling go? I still highly recommend the Mainline, even after a couple of years! 




starburp701 said:


> Does anyone here have experience with a Lyr/LCD 2.2 F setup and also own a S.E.X.? I would like to know if you would considered an "upgrade".




I had the LCD 2.2 and S.E.X. but never Lyr... Sorry


----------



## dannybgoode

If mulling includes waxing the budget on some Focal Utopia's its gone really well! 

I really didn't mean to but just had to try a pair. Early days yet-only got a couple of hours on them but I can't see them going anywhere!

So mull number is what a Utopia / Mainline combo would sound like!


----------



## Allanmarcus

Is the mainline harder to build than the crack? I really enjoyed building the crack + SB. I think I'm ready to "move up". I need a little more warmth in my amp, and $1200 is about the limit of what I'm willing to spend. I think it's coming down to a mainline, a Woo. Unless there are other suggestions for a used amp that can add a little warmth.


----------



## deserat

allanmarcus said:


> Is the mainline harder to build than the crack? I really enjoyed building the crack + SB. I think I'm ready to "move up". I need a little more warmth in my amp, and $1200 is about the limit of what I'm willing to spend. I think it's coming down to a mainline, a Woo. Unless there are other suggestions for a used amp that can add a little warmth.


 

 It is.  Requires about twice the hours and a pretty serious concentration.  Also I'd recommend having at least two solder heads. One small for the through hole work on the boards, and one chisel, for everything else.  You could use one it's just tougher. One thing that is nicer and easier about the Mainline is the wire size. Smaller gauge wire leads to less congestion in  the workspace particularly when working on and around  the tube sockets.


----------



## A2029

allanmarcus said:


> Is the mainline harder to build than the crack? I really enjoyed building the crack + SB. I think I'm ready to "move up". I need a little more warmth in my amp, and $1200 is about the limit of what I'm willing to spend. I think it's coming down to a mainline, a Woo. Unless there are other suggestions for a used amp that can add a little warmth.




If you are looking for an amp that is warmer than the Crack + speedball, the Mainline is not the place to find it. The Mainline is much more neutral (i.e. less warm) and more resolving than the Crack + SB. If you want a better amp than what you have, and want extra warmth, you could get a crack-a-twoa and invest in tube rolling and finding a tube pairing with the right tubes to give you your desired warmth.


----------



## Misterrogers

Didn't have my mainline when I picked up Utopia. I've learned though, that Utopia is happiest with very very low output impedance (amp). I'd say no more than a few Ohms at the most. Don't remember the specs for mainline 'Z' out, but amps with low output impedance tend to drive Utopia better.


----------



## Allanmarcus

swich401 said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Is the mainline harder to build than the crack? I really enjoyed building the crack + SB. I think I'm ready to "move up". I need a little more warmth in my amp, and $1200 is about the limit of what I'm willing to spend. I think it's coming down to a mainline, a Woo. Unless there are other suggestions for a used amp that can add a little warmth.
> ...




I'm not looking to replace the crack with a mainline; I'm looking to replace the Taurus MkII. My main cans are the utopia, and I would like a little lushness. The Taurus is an excellent SS amp. I don't think it colors the sound at all, and I can get most of what I want with a tad of eq. That said, I really enjoyed building the crack, and I would relish the hours building the mainline. 

As rogers points out, though, there is a concern about the low impedance output needs of the utopia. Anyone tried the utopia with the mainline? Alternatively, what about a TH900 or an Ether C 1.1?

Oops, post 1572 says the TH900 and mainline aren't a great match.


----------



## dannybgoode

allanmarcus said:


> I'm not looking to replace the crack with a mainline; I'm looking to replace the Taurus MkII. My main cans are the utopia, and I would like a little lushness. The Taurus is an excellent SS amp. I don't think it colors the sound at all, and I can get most of what I want with a tad of eq. That said, I really enjoyed building the crack, and I would relish the hours building the mainline.
> 
> As rogers points out, though, there is a concern about the low impedance output needs of the utopia. Anyone tried the utopia with the mainline? Alternatively, what about a TH900 or an Ether C 1.1?
> 
> Oops, post 1572 says the TH900 and mainline aren't a great match.




If you do get the Mainline I'd love to hear your thoughts on it driving the Utipias. 

A mid term aim of mine is to perhaps get this pairing for a second listening station.


----------



## NightFlight

I was hot on the Utopia until I heard them. The bang for your buck factor is definitely not there. They are excellent, but about 2K overpriced.  I'd rather go full Stax 009 if I were going down that rabbit hole.
  
 I had the my mainline and the Utopia right beside each other and gosh, I can't remember if I plugged them into each other. I was more interested in how much detail I was loosing when I pitted my Mainline/HD800 vs the STAX SR009/KGSS - both sourced off the Yggy.  The 009 was a clear winner. I did prefer it over anything I heard, and I did hear a lot of great rigs that day.  My only complaint with Stax is build design. Its just piss poor. Its blocky, IMHO cheap looking and actually fall apart fragile.
  
 However, the headphone that stuck out the most was an IEM - the CA Andromeda. So much so I bought a pair next day. The Andromeda seem to pair best with AK products. For $1099 they are a downright bargin. But they sound anemic on the Mainline. The output Z is way too high for them, even on the low setting. The AK document their output Z in the specs as 2ohms.
  
 The measured output impedance on the mainline doesn't appear to be printed anywhere. I haven't dug out the manual, but I doubt its there either.


----------



## dannybgoode

nightflight said:


> I was hot on the Utopia until I heard them. The bang for your buck factor is definitely not there. They are excellent, but about 2K overpriced.  I'd rather go full Stax 009 if I were going down that rabbit hole.
> 
> I had the my mainline and the Utopia right beside each other and gosh, I can't remember if I plugged them into each other. I was more interested in how much detail I was loosing when I pitted my Mainline/HD800 vs the STAX SR009/KGSS - both sourced off the Yggy.  The 009 was a clear winner. I did prefer it over anything I heard, and I did hear a lot of great rigs that day.  My only complaint with Stax is build design. Its just piss poor. Its blocky, IMHO cheap looking and actually fall apart fragile.
> 
> ...




So you did not listen to the Mainline / Utopia combo because you were disappointed by the lack of detail from a far less capable headphone? 

That said an 009 is on my list of headphones to try in the future however an 009/KGSS combo is even more obnoxiously expensive than the Utopia!


----------



## Doc B.

> The measured output impedance on the mainline doesn't appear to be printed anywhere. I haven't dug out the manual, but I doubt its there either.


 
  
 That would be an alternative fact. From the Mainline manual, page 6 :
  
 Output power is about 600mW. Input impedance is 25Kohms minimum. The output impedance is switchable between 16 ohms and 128 ohms.


----------



## NightFlight

Thanks Doc. I was beginning to think it was top secret.


----------



## NightFlight

dannybgoode said:


> So you did not listen to the Mainline / Utopia combo because you were disappointed by the lack of detail from a far less capable headphone?
> 
> That said an 009 is on my list of headphones to try in the future however an 009/KGSS combo is even more obnoxiously expensive than the Utopia!


 
  
 Sorry, no. I was distracted and forgot to. FYI the Utopia owner was experiencing buyers remorse over the Mainline/HD800 combo. *shrug*  Again, I heard it on several sources and while a good headphone, the price is still not justified. Then again I don't think any of the top tier prices are - but that's me. There has to be a better way to make good headphones cheaper. Maybe I'll make it a mission.


----------



## dannybgoode

nightflight said:


> Sorry, no. I was distracted and forgot to. FYI the Utopia owner was experiencing buyers remorse over the Mainline/HD800 combo. *shrug*  Again, I heard it on several sources and while a good headphone, the price is still not justified. Then again I don't think any of the top tier prices are - but that's me. There has to be a better way to make good headphones cheaper. Maybe I'll make it a mission.




It would be interesting to look at the accounts of say Focal to see just what the profits are for a high end speaker / headphone maker. 

I think the bottom line number may be much lower than people imagine...


----------



## Loquah

dannybgoode said:


> It would be interesting to look at the accounts of say Focal to see just what the profits are for a high end speaker / headphone maker.
> 
> I think the bottom line number may be much lower than people imagine...




Marketing, R&D and distribution aren't cheap...


----------



## dannybgoode

loquah said:


> Marketing, R&D and distribution aren't cheap...




Exactly. 4 years to develop the Utopia. 4 years of spending money, not making it, then all the tooling etc as well as the costs you mention and sales volumes aren't going to be massively high. 

You either need to be a 'boutique' brand like Bottlehead (hope you're not offended by the description Doc!) with a quality product in a niche or a massive brand with deep pockets. 

Either way a major new product carries significant risk.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

nightflight said:


> Sorry, no. I was distracted and forgot to. FYI the Utopia owner was experiencing buyers remorse over the Mainline/HD800 combo. *shrug*  Again, I heard it on several sources and while a good headphone, the price is still not justified. Then again I don't think any of the top tier prices are - but that's me. There has to be a better way to make good headphones cheaper. Maybe I'll make it a mission.


 
  
 I'm not sure if you are talking about the recent meet or not here.  I'm just going at jump out on a limb and assume you are, so totally ignore me if this is not the case and I'll be over here with my foot in my mouth 
  
 At the meet you were listening to a Carbon - not a vanilla KGSS.  So keep that in mind; the Carbon is a very top tier estat amp where as a KGSS is not quite of the same pedigree.  I would also like to say that I may have overly down played how I feel about the Utopia's.  I don't really have buyers remorse persai, I just feel that the Utopia's really only have one downside and that downside happens to be a very important aspect of a headphone to me.  I am very much drawn towards the large sense of spatiality of HD800's presentation which nearly every other headphone by contrast is very much lacking, the 009's and Utopia's included.  If the Utopia's offered this, they would be by far and wide my preferred choice. 
  
 But they don't.
  
 What they do offer is nearly everything the 009's offer in terms of resolution and transparency but with a more natural, rich tone and a very firm bottom end.  For reference, I am using DAVE->Utopia's vs DAVE->DIY T2->009 so there is a consistent source and headphones are being fed as pretty much as clear a signal as possible.  The 009's still offer a unique fluttery/enthral quality that the Utopia's lack.  That quality, however, is akin the HD800's soundstage - something that is a unique characteristic that some may or may not be grabbed by.  It isn't essential for "great sound" and isn't something measured by someone like Tyll.  Anyway, in the comparison I have a very hard time putting the 009's ahead of the Utopia's as far as detail retrieval.  The Utopia's are truly, in my eyes, the answer to the 009's that non-estat guys have been waiting for.  I would not be surprised if Focal used the 009's as their reference 'to beat' when designing the Utopia's.
  
 I will also add that my daily 'go to' is still the DAVE->HD800SDR's and the trusty HD800's absolutely hold their own against the Utopia's (and to the 009's) as far as their detail retrieval goes - in most cases.  Where the 800's fall behind is on "background" noises (I don't know the right term here) - if something is placed farther away on the stage - is can get muddied and I think this may be a result of the large soundstage that the 800's project.  For example, if someone is playing guitar front and centre stage, everything is there on the HD800, the decay of the vibration of the string, the reverb in the guitar cavity, the fingernails hitting it and so on.  If that guitarist walks away to the far back/side of the stage, even with their own mic and the details roll off.  There is something odd going on there with the 800's but they can't resolve side to side as well as dead centre.  
  
 The second time they lose the battle is on larger complex passages - here both the Utopia's and 009 quickly pull ahead in their ability to resolve.  Take any well recored orchestra or choir and you can't pick out individual...  Anything...  on the 800's.  Here, the Utopia's and 009's muscle shows in full force.  The 009's, if I had to chose, would still likely have the edge over the Utopia's here but with other sacrifices that I would not be willing to take.  There is still one headphone out there would easily best best both for resolution, however.
  
 I also want to add that comparing a Mainline to a Carbon really isn't a fair fight.  Both are DIY products but a Carbon - in raw parts cost - is several, several, several times more costly and is far more complex in its design.  Keep in mind that the BOM for a Carbon will come from places like Mouser and the like.  Bottlehead likely sources parts from similar places to create their BOM.  Once that's done they add markup to the whole package (which they should for all their R&D, management and so on).  My point is the 'efficiency' of money being used to build your own Carbon is higher than buying a Bottlehead kit - you've cut another layer out of the chain.  Just the same that buying a kit and building it is a more 'efficient' use of money than buying a pre-made amp.
  
 I think I have always been very clear that I am a HUGE fan of the Mainline, but given enough money, it does not represent the apex of the headphone amp food chain.  In my long winded way, what I am trying to say is that I suspect that your Mainline had more to do with the lost details than the HD800's themselves.  At least, that is my suspicion.


----------



## NightFlight

loquah said:


> Marketing, R&D and distribution aren't cheap...


 
  
 Its not, and to play the red tailed advocate - a company has a right to charge whatever they like. Perceived value is tied to price.


----------



## NightFlight

Well Paulie, yes I was referring to you. And you have the right to flip-flop (over/understate) on anything you own of course.  I mean the price can tend to make one squirm a bit right?  Also, sorry to drag you out into this.
  
 Your breakdown above is interesting. Thanks for the clarification. I don't know if dressing down the mainline (which you aren't) is the right direction. Its a fabulous amp, but as you say - perhaps not to be mistaken with an apex product.  Though I'm sure it has taken that spot on the mantle for some.  We could also be comparing apples and bananas. 
  
 What bugs me is trying to nail down what I was hearing on 009/Carbon/Yggy chain. I mean the 009 was not lacking that ethereal quality I've come to love from the HD800 - which I did not expect to hear.  I didn't expect it there because I've not heard it from other headphones.  I really hate that I liked it as much as I did. The detail! I need more time with it. 
  
 Did you get a chance to hear the Andromedas on an AK? They'll raise your eyebrows too. Somethings up there though, I noticed something odd about them, but this is the wrong thread for that tangent.


----------



## Armaegis

For me, the convenience factor of being able to buy an entire kit from one place is a huge draw. I get disproportionately annoyed when I have to source from multiple vendors, especially when they all have to come across the border. Perhaps bigfatpaulie has better luck than I do, but I always get dinged at the border and it's a huge hassle and stressor for me.


----------



## NightFlight

USPS, under $100 declared value will slip under the radar and deliver directly every time.


----------



## Armaegis

nightflight said:


> USPS, under $100 declared value will slip under the radar and deliver directly every time.


 
  
 I wish, but it doesn't work.
  
 Even with USPS, it technically needs to be under $65 (might be 60?) CAD and marked as gift... but that's not guarantee. Winnipeg is also a training port for customs inspectors, so we get all the super picky people here. I've spoken with reps from both FedEx and UPS who say that Winnipeg is the worst city in Canada to bring anything into.
  
 A few months ago I bought some used stuff together, a rather random assortment of a router, speakers and a headphone. The inspector basically looked at the package and said "this looks too nice, the stuff must be new" and flagged it down. My parcel was literally held hostage because they arbitrarily decided it must be new because they were in good condition. Several messages back and forth to say they were used items obtained for cheap fell on deaf ears, and there was nothing I could do about it even with the shipping agents trying to work with me to resolve it against customs.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Well...  I wasn't really referring to customs at all...  I mean technically both anything from Mouser or Bottlehead would be subject to the same taxes - in Ontario it is 13%.  If I bought $1200 of stuff from Mouser or Bottlehead, I should be paying the same $156 in taxes in the end.  It may be in one hit from BH or several smaller hits from smaller shipments but technically, if I was ordering a total value of $1200, it shouldn't matter how many parcels in comes in.  Further to your point, Canada Post doesn't worry about anything less than $60 so if you ordered small chunks of parts you could avoid taxes altogether where as with a kit you can't.  Finally, you can source a lot of parts locally.  For sure buying a BH kit is EASIER than sourcing parts your self: that is absolutely part of the appeal of a kit.
  
 But none of that was part of the point I was trying to make.  I was just saying that a Carbon in a more expensive amp if you look at raw parts alone: forget taxes/shipping/duty.
  
 I did not hear the Andromeda's.  I actually got to hear very little at the meet, I was too busy chatting people's ear off   The only thing I spent more than a minute listening too was the HE60's.


----------



## skeptic

nightflight said:


> Thanks Doc. I was beginning to think it was top secret.


 
  
 Haven't dropped in around these parts for a long time.  Hope you all have been well!
  
 The recent comments about output impedance sparked a dim memory that PJ once weighed in briefly on the topic of the mainline's nominal vs. actual output impedance.  On low, he suggested the real world value is actually closer to 5 ohms.  See: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=6473.0


----------



## Doc B.

Remember that we want a speaker load that is several times the amp's output impedance for low distortion performance. So a 5 ohm output impedance wants to see maybe a 15 to 50 ohm load.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I cross posted over on the mainline thread, but this thread seems way more active.

Anyone compare a mainline to a Schiit MJOLNIR 2?


----------



## NightFlight

No but you got me thinking about tube rolling again.


----------



## deserat (May 3, 2017)

Oh my. I had to send my Mainline off for repair to complete it ( turns out there was a short ). Got it back today and it's plugged into my work rig. ( Bimby source ).  WOW!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to get this home and plug it into the Gumby.  I've a feeling the HDVA600 will be going up for sale very soon. My first thought was that it was too polite, but turns out it's the kinda politeness that hides great richness... like a person of such refinement that by shaking your hand makes you feel glad to be alive.

*Update that night*:

 So I've been home now for a couple of hours and bouncing between genre's on the Mainline and HDVA600.  Honestly it's a tough call as to which amp I'd call better at this point.  They are tuned differently, though not much. The HDVA is brighter but has more bass extension. The Mainline feels slightly more natural in the highs and hits harder in the mid bass. The HDVA has slightly larger sound stage and images better. I'd also give a slight edge to the HDVA in the dynamics department.  Though on a number of tracks ( Danny Elfman's Saranada  Schizophrana - Piano's for instance ) it very difficult to tell the two amps apart.

 Granted the Mainline has about 8 hours of play time on it, and the HDVA several hundred,  so if capacitor burn-in (100 - 400 ) hours and tube burn-in ( 20 - 30 hours ) holds any truth, this isn't exactly fair.  I'm writing it down now for two reasons. I'd like to see if the flavor of the amp changes over the next week and I figure you might as well.  Surprisingly at this point the Mainline sounds VERY solid state. I am hoping for a bit more of that tubular tubeiness. But hey if it doesn't deliver... I've a Crackatowa waiting to be built next.

 I don't really see any point in filling this thread up with my impressions so I'll just keep updating this post.

*2 Days later. ( about 20 hours on the Amp now )*

 The tube has opened up a bit. At least I'm guessing that is the cause of the change given the time frame. Bass, now extends down below the HDVA and with more impact ( Using Bjork - Black Lake for musical test ).  Using Audiophile System Test disk and level matched to 66 db with white noise, 10 hz is audible 20 hz is clearly audible on the Mainline.  HDVA  wasn't audible at 10 hz, was barely at 20 hz and became clear at 30hz.  It's hard to call resolution. Sound stage has opened up at bit wider than the HDVA, but the HDVA is still feels more precise.  There is just a little bit of tube air and liquidity coming through now. On one of my favorite test tracks Tools 10,000 Day (Wings, Part 2) the Mainline feels less congested, rendered the rain and the thunder with more detail and layers Maynards harmonies more clearly, the cymbal hits are sublime. Though on Tools Reflection the positioning of the drums during the opening is much easier to discern on the HDVA.  On the Elfman Track I mentioned earlier, the mainline is now clearly more airy. 

 I'll be taking the Mainline into the office next week so I can put more hours on it than I can at home. Does anybody have thoughts on burn-in on for the stock dayton caps?

*Quick Note after at about 70 hours of burn in*

 Everything that isn't listening to my HD800's through the Mainline sounds bad. Birds chirping in the trees, bubbling brookes, the waves rolling in on the beach.... all pale in comparison. Ok that's a little over the top, but you get the point. This is the best thing I have heard next to the HE-1 system. Imaging has tighted up. bass rumbles the side of my head, percussion... oh the drums I never loved drums so much,  so much attack, so much decay.  The only thing I'm not loving is the intimacy of the soundstage, alot of folk don't like the HD800 expansiveness, but it is one of the things I love, the mainline brings it in a bit more than I like. 

 Also the Ether C is a no go with this amp. Super bright and anemic bass. HD600 is pushed to it's absolute best then left exhausted, because the amp demands something better.


*A few weeks and a couple of hundred hours*

I flipped the amp over and re-biased the tube. The sound quality had been dropping, most noticeable in the bass and imaging. The A side had dropped to 127 and the B side risen to 152. Everything is back to normal, or better now.  

I spent some time going between the music I mentioned earlier.  the 10hz frequency is more audible than memory tells me it was before. Bass is still superior to the HDVA in both extension and control, which kinda boggles me, given that solid state is supposed to have quite the edge in that department. Tool 10,000 days is better than I've ever heard it, I can now hear that the bass guitar is a mic in front of an amplifier, the rain drops are very clear, there are dynamics  in the thunder that simply can't be heard from the HDVA.  The drums at the begining of Reflection are better positioned and more dynamic, in fact the whole of the Lateralus Album is open and rendered with ease. None of the congested mids for which it is known. Of particular note is the cymbal strikes, which I always thought poorly recorded, the whole life  every cymbal strike rendered in exceptional detail, the attack is harder the shimmer clearer and the shine longer than the HDVA by a very noticeable amount . Piano's from Saranada Schizophrana is more open with better timbre. 

I can't say the there is a night and day difference while listening most of the time. In general the Mainline feels more airy, more holographic and more resolved and controlled in the highs and bass. Drum strikes are noticeably more powerful. I say all of this as though it is night and day, it is not. I'm sitting in a room I've made as quiet as possible listening to Redbook or better recordings and looking for differences.  

Does any of this matter in general listening? I think it does, but then the Mainline is infused my sweat and tears, with my little successes and failures, and the stories I've told to friends about building it. It is very difficult to be objective in that light. In fact I'm 100% sure my mainline sounds better than your mainline - even if you are an engineer and upgraded the crap out of it. 

*Next...*

I've an EH Goldpin awaiting installation, and two 10uf Mundorf Supremes on their way... but I'm going to enjoy this as it is for another week or two.


----------



## Loquah

Nice description, deserat! I use the Mainline with a Gumby and it's a brilliant combo!


----------



## deserat

Does anybody have thoughts on burn-in time for the stock dayton caps in the Mainline? Not trying to start a flame-war, there does seem to be consensus around film caps requiring burning and different types having different burn-in times. I'm just trying get a sense as to when I should consider the mainline relatively stabilized.


----------



## NightFlight

Mine sounded pretty crappy for the first 40 hours. The first hour really had me, seriously questioning the amp. After about 10 hours I could hear serious progress.   Then at around 80 hours it really opened up and I stopped taking notes.  
  
 I don't think that was just the caps, but rather the entire circuit was new. IMHO, everything breaks in because... well.. that's what my ears tell me. My best guess on that point would be the new lattice structure of the "solid" conductors adapt to current flow - like a river bed.  I could be completely out to lunch on that point and I'm only parroting what others have said to me. So take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## Doc B.

Yup, it's not just the caps. The iron changes too. I haven't found a throughly convicing argument for exactly what happens during the break in period. But, having heard it so many times over the past 20 years, for me it's an indisputable effect. We just experienced it yesterday with some new crossover components installed in our prototype speaker kit.
  
 Whatever it is, the not-yet-broken-in sound is similar to the compressed, strained sound that tube gear makes before the tubes warm up and show their full resolution capability. I have not heard a convincing argument of what causes that either. But I try not to listen to a system until 20 minutes after it has been turned on.


----------



## deserat

Thanks for the input @NightFlight  and @Doc B.  I was fortunate enough to have my first listen while plugging the mainline in-place of the Lyr 2,  it definitely sounded better than the Lyr, so I was spared then "this sounds like crap" experience - though I was a bit bummed when initially A/Bing it against the HDVA... It's now at 35+ hours ( I plugged in my beater headphones and let it run with white noise since last night ) and the sound has changed substantially.  Very much looking forward to what comes out the other side of the burn-in.


----------



## Hunki Chunki

1 week to get the wood ready  And a nice long weekend to build and test.
  
 Really do take your time to read everything twice before executing each step, troubleshooting is a pain. 
  
 Walnut finish and leather wrapped.


----------



## Allanmarcus

hunki chunki said:


> 1 week to get the wood ready  And a nice long weekend to build and test.
> 
> Really do take your time to read everything twice before executing each step, troubleshooting is a pain.
> 
> Walnut finish and leather wrapped.




Beautiful! How did you prepare the top plate?


----------



## Doc B.

Very nice!


----------



## Hunki Chunki

​I glued on a thin piece of leather and trimmed the holes with an exacto knife .


----------



## Allanmarcus

hunki chunki said:


> ​I glued on a thin piece of leather and trimmed the holes with an exacto knife .


 

 AHHH! The top plate is covered with leather! I see. Aren't you concerned about heat?


----------



## Hunki Chunki

​I figured if we could paint it I could slap a thin piece of leather on it haha, the under side is still metal though so no harm trying


----------



## NightFlight

Nice but, I would keep an eye on the temps.  Especially if you decide to upgrade the output caps, as they are most susceptible to heat - depending on the type. 
  
 Leather makes a fairly good insulator, or poor heat conductor.  http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
  
 It would really be hard to say how much the top plate will hold heat based on insulators applied to the surface. Easier to test than calculate I think.


----------



## deserat

Hey all. So I went to roll in the Electro Harmonix 6C45Pi  tube I bought. It's the one used in the WooAudio WA 7.  Which I was gathering was a direct replacement. Unfortunately once in the voltage mesurements on 25 and 30 were in the negative mili-volt range.  The tubes innards look substantially different than the stock tube... so I'm wondering if I bought the wrong EH gold plates or if I missed a mod somewhere else in the amp. I would have gone ahead and attempted a bias but the breg and kreg mesurements were also near 0.   Any suggestions or ideas?


----------



## Loquah

deserat said:


> Hey all. So I went to roll in the Electro Harmonix 6C45Pi  tube I bought. It's the one used in the WooAudio WA 7.  Which I was gathering was a direct replacement. Unfortunately once in the voltage mesurements on 25 and 30 were in the negative mili-volt range.  The tubes innards look substantially different than the stock tube... so I'm wondering if I bought the wrong EH gold plates or if I missed a mod somewhere else in the amp. I would have gone ahead and attempted a bias but the breg and kreg mesurements were also near 0.   Any suggestions or ideas?



Hopefully they're ok because I've been using them for ages now. I do recall the bias needing to be redone (significantly), but everything has worked fine for ages in my setup with the EH tubes. Have you double checked the model numbers? From memory there's a 6S45 or something similar that's easy to confuse with 6C45. I'm on a train and unable to easily double check this right now, but will post more when I get home if I can shed more light...


----------



## deserat

Loquah said:


> Hopefully they're ok because I've been using them for ages now. I do recall the bias needing to be redone (significantly), but everything has worked fine for ages in my setup with the EH tubes. Have you double checked the model numbers? From memory there's a 6S45 or something similar that's easy to confuse with 6C45. I'm on a train and unable to easily double check this right now, but will post more when I get home if I can shed more light...



Thank you.  Both the box and the tube is labeled 6C45Pi  the tube has an additional EH but I just assumed that meant Elector-Harmonix.  I'll try the other tube and see if adjusting the pots has any impact.


----------



## deserat (May 11, 2017)

Put some Mundorf Supremes in tonight. They've been running for about an hour... not nearly long enough to say anything definitive... but a couple of things stood up pretty obviously after about 30 min of running though my normal test tracks.  Dynamics are even better. particularly in the bass and mid bass, image position in the highs is more precise... perhaps tack sharp. Female vocals seem a little more recessed.  Anyway from what I've read these caps are a very long way from being what they will become... so I'll shut up now and just enjoy their infancy.

Oh and the HDVA 600 has been sent packing. 

Couple of hours in, I had to come back and say. The difference is not subtle, not sure I'm going to sleep tonight...


----------



## rjb1101

spacequeen7 said:


> will be selling my BH Crack/Quickie  set up on ebay if anyone is interested


How does the quickie affect/work with the crack?  I'm not exactly sure what a preamp will do for me. I have yet to take the dive into this hobby and I don't have a ton of money, but I just bought the crack. I'm wondering if it's worth pairing it with the quickie.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Hi,

I'm new to DIY world so I'd like to start with a kit and the Crack caught my eye.
Since is an OTL amp It does not pair well with my LCD-X.

I'm looking for advice on what parts change/add/remove to make it more powerful on the 20 ohm region.

Also I'd like to add a second pair of RCA variable output to use it as preamp.

Is something like that possible having the Crack as a base?


----------



## deserat (May 31, 2017)

CarlosUnchained said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to DIY world so I'd like to start with a kit and the Crack caught my eye.
> Since is an OTL amp It does not pair well with my LCD-X.
> ...



I think you'll find this requires an Output Transformer. The Crack being an OTL ( Output Transformer Less ) Amp outputs at the native output of the tubes, there is no transformer to change the output impedance.  While it may be possible to introduce a Transformer, I'm pretty sure it would destroy the unique characteristics of the Amp itself. Best just to buy a S.E.X. which is designed for high Watt, low impedance headphones.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Thanks @deserat 

I was wondering what nice speakers could S.E.X. drive having 2W per channel below $1000. 
That's the only thing why I'd choose S.E.X. over Lyr 2.


----------



## Doc B.

I agree, horses for courses. That's why we make five different headphone amps. The S.E.X. amp works very well with power demanding headphones, and for speakers Blumenstein Orcas are a very nice match.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

@Doc B. I have a question regarding the S.E.X.

Is there any difference between the two pair of RCA out?

Is it possible to implement a switch to select RCA or headphone out?

Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Doc B.

I'm afraid I don't understand the question. There are no RCA outputs on a S.E.X. amp, only binding posts and a TRS headphone jack. The binding posts are cut out when the headphones are plugged in.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Oh I see, my bad. I thought those were RCA.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Is the C4S included in the S.E.X. 3.0?


----------



## deserat

CarlosUnchained said:


> Is the C4S included in the S.E.X. 3.0?



Nope. Looks like it will be an upgrade option "coming soon" ...  http://bottlehead.com/s-e-x-3-0-specs/


----------



## CarlosUnchained (Jun 5, 2017)

Is it possible to have a balanced 4 pin XLR from the speaker taps?

Anywhere to buy such wire or individual parts to DIY (which ones)?

Is it possible to assemble everything inside the S.E.X. and make a hole in the chasis for the XRL output?

Would the speaker taps work if also connected to speakers having this setup?


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Sorry for the amount of questions but I'm reading the whole thread and catching up some possible issues.

I read that the noise floor for low impedance planars is present. I have the LCD-X wich is the most efficient of all. If that's an issue with the LCD-2 I guess the S.E.X. is not a good match for the Xs.


----------



## deserat

CarlosUnchained said:


> I read that the noise floor for low impedance planars is present. I have the LCD-X wich is the most efficient of all. If that's an issue with the LCD-2 I guess the S.E.X. is not a good match for the Xs.



I've run the S.E.X. 2.0 with Mr Speakers Ether C and they are silent. 23 ohm.


----------



## Solarium

deserat said:


> Oh my. I had to send my Mainline off for repair to complete it ( turns out there was a short ). Got it back today and it's plugged into my work rig. ( Bimby source ).  WOW!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to get this home and plug it into the Gumby.  I've a feeling the HDVA600 will be going up for sale very soon. My first thought was that it was too polite, but turns out it's the kinda politeness that hides great richness... like a person of such refinement that by shaking your hand makes you feel glad to be alive.
> 
> *Update that night*:
> 
> ...



I'm also convinced that Mainline is a superb combination with the HD800. I do however use the Mojo with the Mainline, have you made any comparisons with the Mojo vs the Gumby pairing with the Mainline/HD800?


----------



## deserat

Solarium said:


> I'm also convinced that Mainline is a superb combination with the HD800. I do however use the Mojo with the Mainline, have you made any comparisons with the Mojo vs the Gumby pairing with the Mainline/HD800?



I've not, I've only used the Mainline with the Bimby and the Gumby. I can say that it's the only amp cycled through that made the difference between those to dac's worth the price difference. I keep pondering the Mojo for portable use, but haven't bitten the bullet yet. Saw a Hugo go for the price of a Mojo on ebay last week, so I'm being patient about that purchase. 

I have however finally put the about 300 hours on my Mundorf Supreme's highly recommend that ugprade.


----------



## Solarium

Hugo for the price of a Mojo!? I would have jumped on that like a fat kid on ice cream!

What difference does the Mundorf Supreme make? How much did you get it for?


----------



## Jimmy24

Anyone here listen to the Mainline with the HD 800s? How does it compare to the Ragnarok?


----------



## deserat (Jun 29, 2017)

Solarium said:


> Hugo for the price of a Mojo!? I would have jumped on that like a fat kid on ice cream!
> 
> What difference does the Mundorf Supreme make? How much did you get it for?



The things the stood out most, cymbal hits sound more natural and are more "detailed" and shimmer longer. Soundstage is slightly larger and noticeably more precise. Better Dynamics. More space between instruments. They didn't change tonal character of the amp, just made all the things that are already wonderful, better (which i really didn't think was possible).   Cost $85 with shipping and 20 minutes to install.

Edit:

I did a bass sweep the mundorfs are audible down to about 5-10hz ( rolled off but audible ). The stock Daytons were only audble to 20hz.  This is just my ears no equipment. Also the hd800 are only rated to 14hz so I may be delusional.


----------



## NightPhotograph

Doc B. said:


> S.E.X. 3.0 should be launching tomorrow.


Is the C4S upgrade incorporated?


----------



## Doc B.

The C4S upgrade is separate and should become available this summer.


----------



## NightPhotograph

Doc B. said:


> The C4S upgrade is separate and should become available this summer.


Thanks for the info Doc. By the way, specs say that the mounting hole has been modified to accommodate a Goldpoint attenuator. I'm wondering if Goldpoint V24 fits. Here is the dimension requirement for the panel thicker than 0.07". http://www.goldpt.com/dims.html
Cheers


----------



## deserat

So my Mundorf Supremes in the coupling position have settled in delightfully.  Now I'm wonder what to mess with next. Am thinking of replacing the Daytons on the c4s board or possibly doing a bypass on the coupling caps.  Anybody done either? Thoughts on effectiveness or capacitor values for doing a bypass? 

Will start the Crack-a-twoa soon.


----------



## deserat

Kinda amazed this thread is so quiet.  Just an update. I took Gumby to work and used it to feed an MJ2 - brought Bimby home to the Mainline.  I've just reversed that situation. It is hard to believe I let it go so long. The Gumby + Mainline paring is delightful - so natural - so smooth so much more detail than either the Bimby + Mainline or Gumby + MJ2. I've started work on the Crack-a-twoa and ordered a Yggy.


----------



## deserat

More notes over time...  

#1 I find the tubes need to be re biased about once a month or the mainline starts sounding very loose.  Every time I've done this I've found the voltage had drifted 5-10V.  Also I've found letting the amp warm up before biasing and going double, triple checking my biases on the left and right channel yeilds the best results

#2 Am Auditioning a Yggy in place of the Gumby.  Aside from the OMG factor of the Yggy... I found this is the first time I've ever switch the Impedance to low.  High impedence with the Yggy makes the bass bloomy, low, makes it amazing.  Yggy is at 50 hours ( warm up ) 70 (burn in). 

I tried started the Yggy on an Mjolnir 2, Mainline  is much more revealing.  Love this amp.


----------



## adydula

I am a Crack/speedball owner for a year and have 9 head amps, mostly diy....looking at the mainline or a WA6SE. Anyone have any thoughts or comparisons? I use Beyer T90 and T1's 2nd gen mostly 250/600 ohms.

I love the soundstage of the Crack, but am wondering if the more power at 600 ohms available with the wa6se would make any real workd difference?

I really enjoy building ...

Alex


----------



## Loquah

adydula said:


> I am a Crack/speedball owner for a year and have 9 head amps, mostly diy....looking at the mainline or a WA6SE. Anyone have any thoughts or comparisons? I use Beyer T90 and T1's 2nd gen mostly 250/600 ohms.
> 
> I love the soundstage of the Crack, but am wondering if the more power at 600 ohms available with the wa6se would make any real workd difference?
> 
> ...



Hi Alex, I can't comment directly on the Woo amp by comparison, but I can confirm that you'll love the improvements offered by the Mainline over the Crack. The only thing the Mainline doesn't do that the Crack does is allow for significant tuning via tube rolling. I've used T1s, HD800s and HD800Ss with the Mainline and there's always plenty of juice to spare, plus you can switch between high and low impedance mode to tweak the sound just a touch (assuming there is enough power in low impedance mode). Add to that the fact that the Mainline build is by far my favourite of all the Bottlehead kits I've tried and I'd say it's a winner. Hopefully someone else can provide some Woo insights though...


----------



## deserat

adydula said:


> I am a Crack/speedball owner for a year and have 9 head amps, mostly diy....looking at the mainline or a WA6SE. Anyone have any thoughts or comparisons? I use Beyer T90 and T1's 2nd gen mostly 250/600 ohms.
> 
> I love the soundstage of the Crack, but am wondering if the more power at 600 ohms available with the wa6se would make any real workd difference?
> 
> ...



Have only heard the WAS6E at shows. I built the Mainline and figured I'd sell or keep. It's now my favorite amp by far, and I've stopped looking or wondering entirely about other amps.   *Loquah *has written some excellent reviews on the Mainline vs Crack etc... well worth the read. 

I find it very hard to mention Crack and Mainline in the same sentence. To my ears they sound nothing alike, kinda like the difference between  open ( Mainline ) and closed ( Crack ) headphones.  If memory serves me right, WAS6E sounds alot like a very souped up Crack ( I spent alot of time in the WooAudio Room in the LA show ). It was more Tubey than the Mainline. The Mainline sounds like Gain on wire, which if you look at the circuit, that's pretty much what it is, almost nothing in the signal path.  The tube is extremely linear so it imparts just enough harmonic distortion to be blissful and provide a sense of dynamics but I would never describe it as lush.  

The Mainline does require maintenance. I find myself every month or two re-biasing the tubes. Also while tube rolling isn't really an option, capacitor rolling is. The Daytons that come stock sound really good, but putting in "better" capacitor, for me anyway really kicked the slam and dynamics into high gear - without affecting the sense of realism that is so much a part of the Mainline. ( I have an MJ2 and Ether C Flow and the Mainline/HD800 hits harder ).

Lastly I also enjoyed building the Mainline more than the Crack. It takes longer but it's easier to work with - less tight spaces.


----------



## adydula

Loquah, deserat....

Thanks for your comments. Its a tough decision I am sure they both are great amps.

I really like building stuff and its a good feeling when you turn your project on the first time etc and hear it play!

The Crack has a magnificent soundstage IMO and sounds very musical to me, but its not as "crisp" in its presentation to me compared to other amps.
Saying that is in no way diminishing the Crack...I would never sell it, my kids will inherit it....may not appreciate it, but none-the-less..lol

So it looks like the Mainline might be the one that would please me the more?

Because I use mostly higher impedance headphones I was looking fr a really great amp that delivered the most amount of power in the upper impedance range.
The Mainline according to PJ at BH stated its about 64mw at 600 ohms...other amps have more RMS power at 600 ohms...so the concern is the Mainline might
not drive the T1's as well as these others?

Other than the asethics thats my biggest concern..

Again thanks for your comments!
Alex


----------



## cspirou

64mW is PLENTY for 600ohm headphones. With a sensitivity of 102dB/mW you will get 120dB at full power. You won't even be using 1mW most of the time.


----------



## adydula

Thanks for that info....
Alex


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi Alex the Mainline will have no trouble driving your T1's, I have used T1's (first gen) with Crack, Sex and Mainline and the Mainline easily bests the Crack and Sex the sound staging and resolution is a significant in fact the whole sonic experience is a solid step up in performance. I might add the Mainline and HD800 are also an incredibly good combo.


----------



## adydula

Hey Jamie!

Thanks for telling me that...I know the T'1's would work ok with the mainline just always wondered about the more power available ..
64 mw vs 800 mw, you have to ask the question...or ar least I do !! ha!

Normally when you attach a load to an amp, load being the cans....the load only draws from the source what it needs and if the source can "source" the power all is fine...yes it is a bit more complex in that, the impedance changes with frequency etc..

That said building stuff is a great thing to me, having built 10+ amps in the last few years, just to hear what different circuits "sound" like...etc.
and if something goes south your not afraid to dig in and fix it....

The HD800's...hmmm I have never heard them...but have gone thru many others...and the Beyers are good to me...maybe if I hear them I might jump into that end of the pool!

Thanks Again
Alex


----------



## Loquah

JamieMcC said:


> Hi Alex the Mainline will have no trouble driving your T1's, I have used T1's (first gen) with Crack, Sex and Mainline and the Mainline easily bests the Crack and Sex the sound staging and resolution is a significant in fact the whole sonic experience is a solid step up in performance. I might add the Mainline and HD800 are also an incredibly good combo.



Totally agree!!

Hey, @JamieMcC have you ever tried a Schiit Ragnarok? I'm looking at buying it as a pre-amp and Mainline alternative for IEMs and when I don't want to burn tube-life or want a different feel.


----------



## JamieMcC (Feb 4, 2018)

@Loquah I have yet to  try any of the Schiit range they tend to be marked up significantly over here in the UK more often than not they just swap the $ sign for a £ sign when sold here which makes them a less tempting option

The Mainline makes a excellent pre-amp I have been using it in front of my power amp driving speakers for a while now.


----------



## adydula

Ok their is a SALE on the Mainline until this Sunday...$250 price reduction..that broke the tie....I ordered one today!!

Here we go again!
Alex


----------



## Loquah

adydula said:


> Ok their is a SALE on the Mainline until this Sunday...$250 price reduction..that broke the tie....I ordered one today!!
> 
> Here we go again!
> Alex



Awesome! Congratulations and welcome to club!


----------



## adydula

Thanks, now where is a good place to get a set of those 6C45p's? The 12AU7 is pretty easy to find. I dont horde tubes but would like one set just in case one of then goe south...??

Alex


----------



## Loquah

adydula said:


> Thanks, now where is a good place to get a set of those 6C45p's? The 12AU7 is pretty easy to find. I dont horde tubes but would like one set just in case one of then goe south...??
> 
> Alex



I wish I knew! They're hard to find these days in my experience...


----------



## JamieMcC

adydula said:


> Ok their is a SALE on the Mainline until this Sunday...$250 price reduction..that broke the tie....I ordered one today!!
> 
> Here we go again!
> Alex



Congratulations and welcome to the club  
That's a sweet deal on the Mainline 

 6C45p tubes can be easily sourced on ebay if required.


----------



## adydula

I see some reflecktors and sovtek's....the eh gold pins are not around but should come back in a few weeks from what I see.

Looking forward to the build, looks pretty straightforward.

Thinking of the case, linseed oil, or stain etc..also to paint the top of the panel or not....

Alex


----------



## NightFlight

https://www.ehx.com/products/6c45pi-gold


----------



## Loquah

JamieMcC said:


> Congratulations and welcome to the club
> That's a sweet deal on the Mainline
> 
> 6C45p tubes can be easily sourced on ebay if required.



Oh, glad I was wrong on that one! Thanks


----------



## cspirou

I've seen 6c45pi tubes just about anywhere. Like tubedepot and Woo Audio. They aren't cheap though at ~$30 each.


----------



## adydula

Where does Doc get the tubes from? Sovtek directly?

Woo Audio will have some gold pin EH's but at a price...

From what I see they don't have to be matched exactly? Separate bias adj?

Alex


----------



## White Lotus

Hi Gang, I'm looking at purchasing this pre assembled S.E.X.

Can any of you wizards tell me from the images which model this is?

Apparently it was purchased on Head-fi around 2-3 years ago.

My best guess is 1.0, with C4S.

Let me know your thoughts!


----------



## Loquah (Feb 8, 2018)

White Lotus said:


> Hi Gang, I'm looking at purchasing this pre assembled S.E.X.
> 
> Can any of you wizards tell me from the images which model this is?
> 
> ...



Definitely has C4S (circuit boards), but more likely v2 I think (they're up to v3 now, right?) The difference is in the main transformer I believe, but wouldn't know what to look for.

Should be identical to my one (before i modded the crap out of it!)


----------



## adydula

Send the pix to the guys at BH on their forum, I would think they would be the experts to help u out.
Alex


----------



## deserat

White Lotus said:


> Hi Gang, I'm looking at purchasing this pre assembled S.E.X.
> 
> Can any of you wizards tell me from the images which model this is?
> 
> ...



Looks like my SEX 2.0. With the old iron. ( Chokes and Output Transformers ). You can upgrade the Iron, but the c4s upgrade isn't sold anymore. So having c4s is a plus.


----------



## FunyunBreath (Feb 22, 2018)

Getting ready to wire this thing up  Can't wait to hear how it sounds!


----------



## Loquah

FunyunBreath said:


> Getting ready to wire this thing up  Can't wait to hear how it sounds!



The plate and case look gorgeous! Nice work!


----------



## JamieMcC (Feb 22, 2018)

FunyunBreath said:


> Getting ready to wire this thing up  Can't wait to hear how it sounds!



Looks great the corner details on the enclosure are a classy touch. You want to be 100% sure your paint finish has cured fully this might take several days if its not been heat cured, if not there is a risk of wrinkling and tearing the paint in areas surrounding fixings as they tightened up even though the paint surface might feel dry to the touch.


----------



## FunyunBreath

Loquah said:


> The plate and case look gorgeous! Nice work!



Thanks! I figured I'd spice up the stock alder with some Granadillo splines to match the black top plate. I did a 6-coat hand rubbed oil finish (tung oil, BLO, varnish mixture) and I'm really happy with the way it turned out. 



JamieMcC said:


> Looks great the corner details on the enclosure are a classy touch. You want to be 100% sure your paint finish has cured fully this might take several days if its not been heat cured, if not there is a risk of wrinkling and tearing the paint in areas surrounding fixings as they tightened up even though the paint surface might feel dry to the touch.



I did about 4 coats on the top plate to get the hammered texture I was looking for. I let each coat cure for at least a week before adding another coat, so I think it should be cured enough to screw the components in without damage.

I do know it's not fully cured yet though (I can still smell a bit of the fumes).  On my last bottlehead build I did the same hammertone paint job on and it took at least 2 months before the plate was fully cured.

I've heard of some people baking parts in the oven at around 200 degrees for an hour or so to cure hammertone paint, has anyone tried this and had any success?


----------



## NightFlight

We used to do this for rushed tests in a paint factory I worked in. In my case it was acrylic paints, but all paints should respond to this treatment more or less the same way. I'd be careful on the temp. I would assume 200F not C.

I am not a chemist, YMMV


----------



## Doc B.

We've had a couple of cases where the paint got brittle and cracked some time after it was baked. However that was baking with a heat lamp, which may have gotten the paint too hot. An oven's even heat will probably be safe enough. Definitely don't go over 200 F, and I'd suggest keeping it under 20 minutes of baking time. Or just let it sit for three weeks.


----------



## adydula

Just got the ship email!

Yahoo...Be here next week, Tue the 20th....soldering iron is heating up!

lol
Alex


----------



## slankoe (Mar 21, 2018)

Bottlehead S.E.X. (Single-Ended eXperimenter) Amplifier Mini-review

I purchased this product myself for personal enjoyment in July 2017. It is a fantastic amplifier that I have truly enjoyed listening to music with. At the time of purchase, I opted for the C4S upgrade, which is an optional component that stabilizes the electric current coming from the power circuit. This upgrade carries multiple benefits over the base product including lower distortion and noise as well as improved bass. In this review, I will compare this product mostly with Mjolnir 2 from Schiit Audio, although Mjolnir is priced slightly higher, at $849 for the base model.

Perhaps the most interesting thing about S.E.X., besides the sound signature, is that assembly is required when purchased directly from the manufacturer. Construction of the amp is a slightly more complicated than building the Bottlehead Crack amp (the lower-tier product from the same manufacturer). However, it remains a manageable challenge, given that this was my first kit after all. The total build time was approximately 10 hours, spread over two evenings.

Priced at $540 ($450 when it goes on special), S.E.X. is difficult to beat in terms of price/performance ratio.

The tonal balance is great. Not too hot or too cool – imagine a perfect bowl of porridge that goes down smoothly leaving you wanting more. The overall sound signature is detailed with slightly accentuated but well-extended bass. The high end is transparent to the source without a perceptible treble boost. Although the upper range does not extend as linearly as a solid-state amp, it is nonetheless impressive for a build-your-own tube amp.

The mids are buttery, yet not recessed compared to other OTL tube amps or push-pull types.

The bass region is neither as tight nor as deep as Mjolnir 2, but it is still decent. The whole spectrum of sound is remarkably well-represented with a slight, even downward slope in frequency response.

While the sound signature of S.E.X. is detailed, it is also quite gentle. Rather than coming across the eardrums with blunt force, S.E.X. subtly unfolds the soundscape in front of listeners sublimely when compared to the less-subtle, punchier Mjolnir 2.

In addition to the aforementioned, S.E.X.’s dynamic range is simply fantastic. From the subbass to the brilliance, the dynamism of S.E.X. is truly a delight. While certain solid-state amps may nonetheless outshine it in this regard, S.E.X. keeps up the pace remarkably.

The noise floor is low with the C4S upgrade, which reduces interference inside the unit. During testing, when cranked to full volume, I could hear a hiss in the background. However, for my own listening safety, I have never been compelled to listen to music above 10 o'clock on the volume knob (with the Sennheiser HD650).

The sound stage is wide, well-defined, and holographic. Unfortunately, the depth isn’t as satisfying as I have had hoped, but some listeners may still find it satisfactory and acceptable. This is one place where the Mjolnir matches the S.E.X. in sound stage reproduction ability.
S.E.X. has more than enough power and headroom for both planar magnetic drives and dynamic ones alike. Below are my notes on different sets of headphones, listened to at around 80 dbs:

● The rather-demanding AKG K340 (now an uncommon vintage set of headphones from a bygone era) were powered well and sounded punchy through this amp. It is also one of the few power-hungry headphones with which the volume pot needs to be cranked above 12 o’clock.
● With more mainstream headphones like HD650, I could get the volume turned to about 10 o'clock before it becomes a health hazard. In particular, S.E.X. pairs well with HD 650, giving the already-good sound stage a pinch more dynamism while bringing out the liveliness of the music gracefully and effortlessly. It also does wonderful things to the low end, bringing low-frequency details I didn’t know was there before.
● The Focal Clear had a highly addictive sound when paired with S.E.X. and its tasteful bump in the bass frequencies blended well with the amplifier's tonality. This combination made the analytical Focal Clear a lot more engaging than it would otherwise be coming out of lower level amplifiers - a clear cut above the entry-level Schiit Vali 2 hybrid tube amp (which performs incredibly well in its price range).
● When it comes to Hifiman’s HE-560, the synergy between this particular amp and the headphones is unmatched by all other pairings I’ve tried. Unlike some other amps that I have tested the HE-560 on, the HE-560 sounds rich and full of life with the ample power that S.E.X. supplies.

Finally, I paired S.E.X. with different DACs. Among the different DACs I have tried (Gungnir Multibit, Modi 2 Multibit, Chord Hugo), I preferred Gungnir the best, followed by the Modi 2. While Chord Hugo sounded neutral with SEX, some may find the treble region too bright. That being said, the differences between the various DACs are so minute that they are difficult to detect without extended testing. After listening to all of the DACs on S.E.X., I am confident to conclude that most well-made DACs will not disappoint when paired with S.E.X.

Overall, I praise SEX for its low harmonic distortion, wonderfully balanced tone, dynamism, versatility, and the ample power it provides. TL;DR: It is a superb all-rounder at this price range.


----------



## JamieMcC

Nice review


----------



## adydula

Well, we started the Mainline build today...got the kit yesterday and took inventory, was missing two 49.9 ohn resistors and one #6 fiber shoulder washer for the smaller transformers. Waiting on BH to ship me these.

But lots to do in the meantime, populated the 4 circuit boards andgot most of the stuff mechanically mounted on the main mounting plate.

Glued the base, sanded down and got a first coat of Tung Oil on it.

Painted the Power Transformer Bell Housing a nice gloss black and its drying overning and will install tomorrow.

Will recheck the 4 boards tomorrow for correctness...and start wiring up stuff....

Probably will not get this to totally power up until late next week I think...stay tuned
Alex


----------



## adydula

First power on test of the power supply passed!!...6.3VAC and 390 VDC....working on the wiring now!
Alex


----------



## adydula (Mar 23, 2018)

Progress...


----------



## adydula (Mar 23, 2018)

More Progress:


----------



## adydula (Mar 25, 2018)

OK all done except for the missing 49.9 ojm resistors, should be here on Tuesday!

The resistance checks looked ok...so (2) more days for the real "smoke" test!!

I removed one side of the springs and ball bearing to make the vol adjusts smother to my liking.
Also after (4) applications of Formby's High Gloss Tung Oil it looks great to me, smooth and solid.

Alex


----------



## adydula

Well its finally complete and functioning and functioning very well!

Voltage checks were spot on biased the 6c45pis to145volts....regulated voltages ok.

Never heard my T1's and T90's sound so good....

I was able to use the two inputs to set up two differnt dacs with 2 different pcs and play the same song at the same time and the same level and compare dacs..,..now I know how an ODAC compares to a Schitt Bimby MB!!

Highly recommeded amp..

Alex


----------



## timind

Beautiful build Alex. Assuming you've owned both the Crack and S.E.X amps, where does the Mainline rate? I ask as I've built the Crack and the S.E.X. and the S.E.X. is head and shoulders better than the Crack. Curious how you rate the three amps?


----------



## adydula (Mar 29, 2018)

Hey!

Unfortunately I have not heard a S.E.X. amp, only my Crack w/Speedball. I have a Schitt Vahalla 2, Asgard, Lyr, and several other SS DIY amps..some very, very good.

The mainline IMO after just a few hours of listening and doing some quick comparisons is really on the top of the pile for real musicality....with great songs is absolutley astonishing.

The one thing that steps out (and I hate using those glittering adjectives)...is the resolving "power" or "ability, some say "micro-details".

With the T1's on the high impdeance unbalanced setting, its really uncanny in being able to hear all thats there even at low amplitude.

It seems so "stable, solid, doesnt loose its composure....the 6C45PI is a great tube, ultra linear, and doenst cost an arm and leg for greatness.

The mainline even with 600mw seems to be able to drive the T1's more easliy than the crack. With the crack you have to turn the volume control a lot to get to the higher
amplitudes..seems like the Mainline has more power but its about the same rating as the Crack.

The mids are superlative, voicing is very nice, and the bass is solid, really stable, again depending on your source it will be almost as perfect as you can get, depending on how the bass or ecording was authored in the first place.

I have a wonderful supply of great recordings from a few friends and play some of these "reference" recordings its a mind blower.

If I had to do it again I would most likely just buy a Mainline and be very content,,,but you dont know that unless you try other stuff...reading about stuff is great but we all are different
and hear things abit differently....

You dont hear much about this amp out there in the audio wild, but its definitely a TOTL for me.

Alex
:>)


----------



## adydula

On the micro-details stuff....listening to an old "The Doors" recording with "Riders on the Storm" cut.....with lesser amps, cans you strain to hear the rain and thunder in the background
in the oppening of the tune, as well as trying to discern it while the main part of the song is playing...with this amp and the T1's its just "there" like it was meant to be...no straining, its just "there"....simply amazing resolution ability.

Alex


----------



## timind

Thanks for the comprehensive answer. 

I was a Senn HD650 devotee for years until a friend loaned me his Beyer T1s a couple years ago. They really opened my eyes/ears to how much more there was to hear with headphones. The T1s set me on a search which eventually ended with Beyerdynamic DT990 (not pro version). I find them to be a perfect match of natural sound and detail. 

I had built a couple Cracks for the Senns and had one with the DT990s. That amp seemed a bit lifeless compared to my old Nuforce HDP so I built a S.E.X. That amp was amazing, but had more gain than the 990s needed. I found I was listening with the volume control on "1" instead of 3 or 4 like most amps.


----------



## JamieMcC

Congrats on the getting your Mainline up and running its a superb amp. 

Sex + T1 is very good by the way  even more so with some high quality caps like the Mundorf Silver oils which bring nice gains in soundstage and resolution. 
Stock Mainline is another level up again.


----------



## Doc B.

adydula said:


> The mainline even with 60mw seems to be able to drive the T1's more easliy than the crack. With the crack you have to turn the volume control a lot to get to the higher
> amplitudes..seems like the Mainline has more power but its about the same rating as the Crack.



That would be 600mW, not 60mW. Crack puts out more like 300mW into a 300 ohm load. None of this has to do with how much you turn the volume knob of one amp relative to the other for the same level. That has to do with the gain of the amp, not the power output.


----------



## adydula

Thanks for the correction Doc....
Alex


----------



## Doc B.

I'll backpedal just a bit here - the output power will indeed be lower into 300 ohms, and your 60mW number is probably in the ballpark. The Mainline should put 600mW into a 64 ohm load from the 64 ohm tap. However I would not necessarily use this as the only yardstick by which to measure the relative performance vs. another amp. For one thing these numbers don't have a distortion figure associated with them. We typically use about 5%-10% THD, which freaks out the SS guys who use amps with tons of negative feedback to kill the more prevalent odd order harmonics their amps produce. The Crack has a little higher distortion at low levels than the Mainline does at similar levels simply because of the circuit differences - cathode follower vs. transformer output. FWIW this notion that the power level is reduced into higher impedance loads is also true with SS amps and the S.E.X. amp, since it is also using a transformer with a relatively low output impedance compared to the impedance of high impedance cans. It's a fairly moot point when you consider the power output of the S.E.X. amp is way more than necessary for most headphones.

The notion of when impedance matching is important seems not that well understood in the community. There is nothing wrong with connecting a higher impedance load to the lower impedance output of a zero negative feedback amp. It may sound better or worse (particularly in terms of perceived bass performance), but it does no harm. And in some cases the improved S/N and the tighter bass gained from using a lower impedance output tap might be the overriding factor in deciding which tap to use.


----------



## adydula

Thanks for the update...I am finding that the Mainline with 250 ohm and 600 ohm Beyers there is more than enough "power" to drive these headphones to a very
high level, way to high for safe listening.

With these cans, the high impedance setting and unbalanced output to me seems the best in providing an overall sound that IMO works wonderfully with all kinds of music.

The tonality of a bass violin, male and female voices just sound very natural and musical to me....lifelike etc.

Depending on how well the recording was done originally and mixed, this amp and my T1's produce a bass with organ music (27hz) that just astonishes me. Yeah not as great
as a really good 2 ch loudspeaker setup, but really awesome when you consider the size of the transducers.

Most of my SS amps THD's is measured extremelu low in comparison, and they do sound different, but the Mainline and Crack just sound so "musical"...its the only word that I know of that describes the beautiful presentation these tube amps provide.

Every headphone enthusiast should take a listen with one of these amps.....theres no turning back!! Ha!

Alex


----------



## gab840

Congrats Adydula & welcome to the Party!!!


----------



## adydula

Thanks!!

I listen to this via this amp almost daily...being retired. 

I have a BH Crack modded with Speedball and a dozen other assorted SS and tube amps.

Alex


----------



## rayhe19

Hey Guys,

I have a pair of HD800 with a Schiit Lyr2. However I am thinking about getting a bottlehead amp to build as a hobby and as an upgrade to the Lyr2. Compared to the Lyr2 I would like more bass extension and soundstage. I am wondering what would be the best bottlehead amp to go. I've been looking at the crack, crackatowa, and mainline. From what I've read so far, the crack seems to be a sidegrade while the mainline is overall a pretty good upgrade in terms of both soundstage, extension of highs and lows, as well as details.

I was also wondering if the stereomour II could be modified to run headphones?

Thanks, Ray


----------



## adydula

I have both the Crack and Mainline...if you can afford the Mainline...just do it and be done with it...its that good...

Alex


----------



## slankoe

adydula said:


> I have both the Crack and Mainline...if you can afford the Mainline...just do it and be done with it...its that good...
> 
> Alex



I dont know enough about people's experiences with crackatwoa.
Mainline ought to be an upgrade for sure.

I was considering the Lyr2 once, but eventually went for *Bottlehead SEX*. I made a review recently which can be found on the product showcase page. I'll try to provide relavant info and why you should consider the SEX.

SEX has a remarkably neutral sound and FR goes quite low, satisfyingly high, and linear as well. I actually preferred the SEX over Mjolnir 2, overall, for powering my trusty 300ohm Sennheisers (HD650). They also had particulsr synergy with the HD700, bringing out the best of it's sound. With the Focal Utopia, SEX won me over vs Mjolnir (but Mjolnir was slightly better with the Clears, because they love that extra upper treble air).

Here is a "very low-quality graph I made," regarding *the* *tonal balance of SEX and Mjolnir compared.*



 
(exaggerated and not to scale)

Perhaps you can extrapolate this to info about how the Mjolnir compares to Lyr 2. For technicalities overall, I'd score Mjolnir a tiny bit better, but it could be due to the extra "u-shaped," tonality (which is very tastefully done, mind you).

Nonetheless, SEX is a single ended triode design. There will be inherent differences between it (other Bottlehead amps), and hybrid designs like Lyr and Mjolnir.

It is difficult judging how good an amp is in regard to synergy (perhaps the most important aspect of all). I hope this helps someone. Best of luck in your search.


----------



## Tom-s

I'm still debating wether i want to build a S.E.X. first and a Mainline after.
Maybe i'll just build both at once because next week the Mainline will be on sale 20% off. 
So for anyone figuring what end-game amp for HD6-8xx headphones to buy, this is the moment!


----------



## adydula

I have a crack and a mainline...and they both are excellent....I find the mainline pairs better with higher impedance cans like the Beyer T1's....
The Senn 250 ohm HD 600 are magical with the Crack (w/speedball)...the T1's on the crack are good but much better IMO with the mailine.

Mainline is on sale again $250 off...a great TOTL amp from BH!
Alex


----------



## rated1975

Can someone explain what steps are involved in biasing the mainline, does this take long and how often should it be done.


----------



## JamieMcC

When I got my Mainline it pretty much made my Sex redundant for headphone use as the hd800 on Mainline is seriously good. Luckily the Sex is also a really nice sounding speaker amp and I use it for 2 channel. If the Mainline is out of budget don't hesitate about the Sex its a superb amp and at its price point its seriously good.


----------



## JamieMcC

rated1975 said:


> Can someone explain what steps are involved in biasing the mainline, does this take long and how often should it be done.



Its simple to do you just need a multi-meter to measure the voltage on two terminals one for the left and one for the right channel there is a variable resistor which has a small screw on the top you turn the screw one way or the other to raise or lower the bias voltage. It doesn't actually take long to do but you need to let the amp warm up a bit first. I normally do mine every four to six months I would do it more often but my amps in a bit of a awkward position to get in and out of.


----------



## timind

If the Mainline is that much better than the SEX, it must be phenomenal.


----------



## adydula (Nov 6, 2018)

Also...anytime you change or replace a tube,,let it warm up and then check and adjust the bias.
Easy to do but BE CAREFUL where you grab and or touch stuff...theres voltages present that can
harm you!!

I hook up test leads carefully with the unit turned OFF and then turn on and let it warm up, then adjust if necessary.

Alex


----------



## JamieMcC

Good advice I always use a fly lead fixed to the ground point and my multi-meter probe then you only have one probe to handle which is I find much easier.


----------



## deserat (Jul 31, 2018)

timind said:


> If the Mainline is that much better than the SEX, it must be phenomenal.



It is. The sex is a very good tube amp. The mainline is, well I can't even image where to go from here. One thing I would note about the mainline though... it reveals what you feed it with and what you feed it into. When I went from the Gumby the Yggy there was no question of the difference... with the SEX it was more subtle. With the Crack I'm sure there would have been no difference.  The HD600 sounds better on the Mainline than the SEX, the HD800 sounds ALOT better on the mainline than the SEX.  In their class they are all wonderful amps but they are ... shall we say... priced according to transparency.   I do however have a special place in my heart for the Crack, my first build and my first real ecstatic euphonic ecstasy.


----------



## slankoe (Jul 31, 2018)

I had to get an Eddie Current Zana Deux S to top my SEX amp!

To be fair I did not try the Mainline or anything else above $1000. Of the few nice amps I owned and tried at meets/friends however, none of them had the midrange resolution of the SEX or paired as well with Utopia and HD650.

SEX (with the C4S upgrade) is a truly underrated gem. I'd love to try a Mainline someday.


----------



## Tom-s (Jul 31, 2018)

Thanks all for the advise. It's great to hear all such good comments about both amps. For me the Crack is special aswel. De journey with this amplifier is great!
Still couldn't decide and went ahead; ordered both S.E.X. and Mainline yesterday. Can't wait to fire up my soldering iron!
I'll build S.E.X. first, use it with headphones a bit, install CCS, and then try it as my first tube speaker amp .

Edit: Ohh, and all suggestions for mods are welcome. 
Noted capacitor upgrades on both. Maybe some signal pathway improvements recommended from te start. The volume pot on S.E.X (have a spare stepped laying around). The wiring?


----------



## JamieMcC

Tom wow you sure went for it ordering both congratulations.


----------



## Tom-s (Jul 31, 2018)

If i'd just ordered the Mainline. I'd probably never have sex .

Now i can start venturing into the world of speakers. I'll probably start with Heresy's or other "small" efficient speakers.


----------



## smallcaps

Tom-s said:


> If i'd just ordered the Mainline. I'd probably never have sex .
> 
> Now i can start venturing into the world of speakers. I'll probably start with Heresy's or other "small" efficient speakers.



I'm just about to start building a SEX with my father-in-law for his 70th. Was also curious about efficient speakers as I intend to wire for 4ohms. 

How will you wire your SEX? I was mulling over 4ohms vs 8 and pairing with high efficiency Klipsh's but was curious about other options. Any suggestions would be valued.


----------



## Tom-s

For an 8-Ohm speaker, the 4-ohm tap is preferred. So for speakers i'll use that.


----------



## adydula

Wow! Thats great...your going to have fun building these great amps.

I find my hd600 sound so great with the Crack with speedball....IMO even better than with the mainline...which seems to be a much better
match for my Beyer T90's and T1's...

Each time in the past month listening to the 600's on the mainline its really good but there is some crazy magic going on for me with these cans and the crack....just so musical and just sooooo right to me.

I have been thinking, just thinking of senn 800's in the future.....$$$$

Alex


----------



## JamieMcC

Had Crack + HD650
Had Sex +T1
Had Mainline + T1

All the above amazing combos that sounded superb

HD800 + Mainline takes it to a whole different level the synergy of the pairing is amazing.


----------



## adydula

Jamie I assume you have the HD800 and not the "s" version?

I keep thinking about getting a set of these, #$&*(^)%^&%* its only $$$!!

...and whats this "had!!" :>)

Alex


----------



## Rhamnetin

adydula said:


> Jamie I assume you have the HD800 and not the "s" version?
> 
> I keep thinking about getting a set of these, #$&*(^)%^&%* its only $$$!!
> 
> ...



I took that as in he had a Mainline + T1 and now a Mainline + HD 800.

One of the nicer things about dynamic headphones is that you can sail off into the sunset with a $1,200 Mainline or even a sub $1k Crackatwoa for high impedance models, and not miss out on much compared to amps with over double, triple the price.


----------



## JamieMcC

Still have Sex and Mainline


----------



## adydula

Yea!!! :>)


----------



## NightFlight (Aug 1, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> I took that as in he had a Mainline + T1 and now a Mainline + HD 800.
> 
> One of the nicer things about dynamic headphones is that you can sail off into the sunset with a $1,200 Mainline or even a sub $1k Crackatwoa for high impedance models, and not miss out on much compared to amps with over double, triple the price.
> _
> ...



I was going to makes some point regarding the SR-009/KGSSHV, but I see that I'm preaching to the choir.  I think the HD800/Mainline with a warm recording like Bavarian Fruit Bread or Cowboy Junkies is really where its at. You can crank out some impact from the Police's 'One World (Not Three)' 24bit HDTracks remaster too. 

I heard the SR-009/KGSSHV Carbon/Yggdrasil combo at a meet and I was pretty enamoured despite the conditions. The adage 'hearing new things' in a well known recording doesn't do that rig justice... I heard a track which I previously thought was a poor recording with noise in the background turn out to be fine detail the artist had hid there for your listening enjoyment. Listening to a recording and becoming part of it are two different things. The HD800 can do it if your in the right frame of mind. The STAX rig does it without warning or apology.

In fact, here is that moment. I'm in the back with the SR-009 strapped on - lol


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Looks familiar...


----------



## JamieMcC

Paul are you still having Speedball problems?


----------



## bigfatpaulie (Aug 1, 2018)

Sadly, yeah...  Thanks for asking.  Basically, it works but I had to jump a few connections on the board and now the right side is quieter than the left. 

The guys over at BH really tried to help but there are ghosts in my amp.  In the end the two options I have from them are:

 A) Sent it to BH for $160 and they will fix/replace things.
 B) Buy new parts from BH (essentially a new SpeedBall kit)

The first option isn't a fit for me because the amp is hardly worth that amount.

Option B is a bit frustrating as I'm not convinced that some of the parts didn't work out of the box (eg, the board).  Doc did suggest that one of semi-conductors may be not working and I would rather buy them privately to save cost.

So, yes, and no, still having issues.

That said, my DAC can adjust balance so I can shove it over to the left and balance the sound in a manual sense which is what I have been doing and the sounds fantastic.


----------



## adydula

I have been reading your dilemma over at the BH forum and can sympathize with your situation! It sucks when a diy project doenst work for the first time.

If you think one of the boards was defective from the get go, you could de-populate the board carefully and measure all the lands on the board for opens and or'
shorts....a real pain etc.

Sometime is really hard to measure parts in an actual circuit and they have to be removed to test properly.

Maybe the least cost is to just get the parts to go back to the working basic Crack and start from there again?

Alex


----------



## JamieMcC

Paul I know how you feeling.

Think this was my fifth or sixth Crack

https://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=8299.msg79543#msg79543


----------



## Loquah

Nice to see this thread is going strong. I'm not here very often thanks to my mainline curing my upgrade impulses completely. I've added a Gumby and AudioQuest NightHawks over the years and the Mainline is a perfect complement. It's a testament to this amp that it suits neutral setups with HD800 just as much as warm setups like mine with NightHawks.

I can't remember who posted about the Gumby to Yggy upgrade earlier (on phone so can't easily check mid-post), but would love to hear your impressions of the changes you heard via Mainline.


----------



## Tom-s (Aug 2, 2018)

The upgrading bug has bitten me. I'd like to start with the S.E.X (can't afford a TOTL 10uf cap for mainline anyway (will go with NOS russian MBGCH's/ so)).
- Stepped attenuator (for balancing low volumes and have one laying around, will use that).
- Capacitors 1.5uf and 0.1uf to be found.
- Other part, you guys suggest to change?


I'm located in the EU and like to source local capacitors. There's Duelund but pricing holds me back.... xD.
For the needed caps i've found Miflex, a Polish Paper/propylene / copper foil in oil capacitor that shows very good results in the Humble Homemade Hifi overview (my personal reference for caps).
These: http://www.miflex.com.pl/assets/dokumenty/KPCU-01-ENG.pdf or these: http://www.miflex.com.pl/assets/dokumenty/KPCU-02-ENG.pdf
The 1.5uf is 50mm diameter and 70mm long. The 0.1uf is 26mm diameter and 50mm long. Will these fit the S.E.X?
As an alternative there's old stock russian K75-10 (500 or 750V) for the 1.5uf and FT-3 600V teflon for the 0.1uf caps, they are cheaper but a lot bigger.
Found some more negative Polish reviews of the Miflex. Will reconsider.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thanks, Jamie.  

I had no idea you had issues at one point as well!  How did you end up fixing it?  Did putting the whole amp in the dishwasher help


----------



## NightFlight

bigfatpaulie said:


> Sadly, yeah...  Thanks for asking.  Basically, it works but I had to jump a few connections on the board and now the right side is quieter than the left.
> 
> The guys over at BH really tried to help but there are ghosts in my amp.  In the end the two options I have from them are:
> 
> ...


----------



## NightFlight

I had real issues with the Crack SB. I ended up replacing the power transistors for resolution. 

I thought I had that amp singing until I sold it to SirIssac. He has an electronics background pre-existing his audio interest. So, he took it apart and re-soldered. In the power supply he replaced the diode bridge with Schottky rectifiers and got rid of the cement resistors.  It sounds fantastic.  He's the one that also convinced me to find a used HTS1600 power filter on kijiji. It makes a real difference... bonus that the kijiji seller didn't know what it was and I got it for practically nothing.

Ultimately he ended up jumping to the gumby/mojo combo with a oddball tube (cheapie cheapie) he a saw Moffat recommend in some thread. 
I'll have to convince him to go back to the crack again and evaluate, because while the hybrid amps are exciting - you still miss out on some of the tube magic.


----------



## JamieMcC

Tom fyi K75-10 750v is a big sucker!

The  Mundorf Supreme Silver oils are very nice I went back to them from the Jupiter Bees Wax I liked both very much but the SIO just seemed to gel better with my system. I keep looking at the Jupiter and Milflex coppers myself but haven't bit the bullet yet.


----------



## Tom-s (Aug 2, 2018)

The size of the K75-10 750V made me consider the 500V version. But that might be pushing the limit's on voltage rating.
For now i've only ordered some FT-3 Teflons 0.1 600V, that i've used happily in my Crack for years now. Great caps.
As an alternative i've also ordered KSG-2 Silver Mica's 500V.
Both could alternate in the interstage area, just see what fits and sounds best.
For output coupling i'm considering Mundurf supreme SGO/SIO amongst other.

@JamieMcC I see you made an alternative volume control in your SEX?
Could you share more details on that?

Edit: Ended up with the K75-10 250V 10uf for Mainline and 1.5uf 500V for S.E.X. for now. For this little money it's probably hard to find anything better. So it will do for now.


----------



## JamieMcC

Its a A5 attenuator from Glassware kind of a poor mans version of the nice 36 step attenuator Bottlehead offer as a upgrade on some of their kits the switches are not as nice quality as Bottlehead use in theirs and its a bit clunky but it sounds good and essentially does the same thing.

I could only just shoe horn it in, if I remember correctly the on off switch and headphone socket have both been moved slightly to get it to fit but this is covered by the carbon veneer on the top plate. You cant really see much of it now as I have a couple of chokes mounted on top.

http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/a5stat.html


----------



## Tom-s

Tom-s said:


> Ended up with the K75-10 250V 10uf for Mainline and 1.5uf 500V for S.E.X. for now. For this little money it's probably hard to find anything better. So it will do for now.



Need to straighten this. I misread in the manual. For the output capacitors in S.E.X. (also 3.0) 630V is mandatory, so these 500V versions i ordered, wasted money. 
The component only has around 375-400V idle. Being a parafeed cap, it gets higher voltages during low frequency transients. 

Interested in the size of these output caps you put in Jamie. They are 3.3uf, and according to PJ on the BH forum; anywhere between 0.8 and 3.3 uf is fine for output caps in S.E.X. 
Did you try smaller versions? Why the 3.3uf?

From my understanding. Smaller caps roll-off the lower frequencies earlier. But do make for a tighter bass. Larger caps boost the bass a bit, and make it less tight.

So when using a S.E.X. with speakers and subs, a smaller cap might help (because you don't need the lowest frequencies, but want the rest as good as it can be).


----------



## JamieMcC

Tom  a seller on ebay had a listing for three used Jupiter Beeswax capacitors a single 3.3uf Jupiter along and  two smaller ones .1uf (if I remember correctly) which just happened to be the right value for the two Sex inter-stage capacitors. I was able to snag the three capacitors for pocket change but then needed to pay full price for a new 3.3uf to make a pair. 

I like the Jupiters immensely but in the end went back to the Mundorf Supreme Silver oils they just seemed to gel better with the rest of my system. There was a little discussion on BH that the higher uf might be helpful when also using speakers.

While I am not advocating deviating from the specified voltage value 

If the 500v capacitors were mine I would be very tempted to try them. Think I measured around 450V on my sex but they would likely see a bit more during start up. Maybe measure yours and let us know it would be handy info. My thinking would be  those military caps are built like tanks I would suspect they might have around 50% headroom on the working voltage for maybe 24 or 48 hrs have a hunt on google see if you can pull up some specs.


----------



## FunyunBreath

Just finished the exterior of my Mainline build and had to show it off 

Now to find the time to actually wire this thing up...


----------



## adydula

That is a very nice looking Mainline!!!

So get to work and wire it up!!

:>)

Alex


----------



## BillJGW

Just finished reading through the entire thread and didn't see any mention of this combo.  Has anyone tried the Mainline with the ZMF Auteur?  Comments?


----------



## Doc B.

Looks great! Well done!


----------



## NightFlight

FunyunBreath said:


> Just finished the exterior of my Mainline build and had to show it off
> 
> Now to find the time to actually wire this thing up...



Seriously good looking amp! I would replace the knobs with matt black and try matt black feet to tie it together, but that last bit might just be too much.


----------



## FunyunBreath

NightFlight said:


> Seriously good looking amp! I would replace the knobs with matt black and try matt black feet to tie it together, but that last bit might just be too much.



You read my mind!

The knobs were the one thing I hadn't installed yet because I had to drill them out the fit the pot shafts properly. I do like the gold isolation spikes vs black tho because it matches that sweet bottlehead logo


----------



## adydula

I like the knobs!
Where did u get them?

Alex


----------



## FunyunBreath

adydula said:


> I like the knobs!
> Where did u get them?
> 
> Alex



Thanks! They're the 30mm aluminum knobs that Parts Connexion sells: https://www.partsconnexion.com/CONNEX-80685.html

Just had to drill out the mounting hole to 1/4" for the Mainline pots.


----------



## Tom-s

For my to-be-build S.E.X. 3.0 I’m trying a write-up / product review. Started on this because both my ordered S3X and Mainline took 6 weeks to arrive. And now have been at some anodizing company for almost a month with no clear window on when I get them back.

This preview will be the start of my product review once the kit’s been build / tested / compared. Feel free to comment with tips and tricks! It’s my first try, but here it goes!


*Introduction:*

The Single Ended eXpermimenters  kit 3.0 (S.E.X.) or S3X is a DIY kit from the Seattle based Bottlehead Corporation. With two single ended watts to power both headphones and speakers it’s meant to drive even the most power-hungry headphones or most efficient speakers. The 6FJ7 tubes are put to work in such a way that even the most sensitive IEM are supposed to work with this kit. Being a DIY kit, although it’s not the cheapest option with 539$, it probably has a very good price/performance ratio compared to a lot of amps you can buy build at this price (even second hand). There’s a C4S upgrade (see upgrades) for a modest 45$ when included with the kit. If you’re a student like me, definitely look into DIY kits to save some money, listen to “the best” sound you can afford and still be able to breathe financially.

My reason for buying this kit weren’t headphones; instead it will be used with speakers most of the time. As an almost full time headphone user this amp seemed the best way to venture into the world of single ended triode with high efficiency speakers (and as a first tube amp for living room duty). Powering a pair of Klipsch Heresy III speakers with 99dB/w sensitivity to modest 102dB peaks will be fine for both easy listening and movies.


S3X is the second Bottlehead kit I put my hands on. Having build Crack about five years ago and making it FrankenCrack before convincing myself i needed to step up. Next to S3X I’m building a Bottlehead Mainline kit at the same time. Bought both of them to save the environment a bit and save my wallet from extra shipping costs.


*The order:*

When ordering a Bottlehead kit you have to be kind of patient. It took my kits about 6 weeks to get across the Atlantic. So this time was spent reading the manual, debating what components would be worth upgrading and ordering parts to implement them (and re-reading / memorizing the manual..).

The kits arrive neatly and thoroughly packed, with a good amount of bubble wrap and Styrofoam to protect the hefty precious parts inside. As an European buyer, I got the full monty at customs for both kits. So it is a lot cheaper to have multiple kits shipped in one go.


*The manual and support forum:*

This is the most important thing with these Bottlehead kits and this is what makes them “easy” DIY kits for me. Their manuals are among the best manuals I’ve ever found with a DIY kit (at this moment working on 4 in total). It makes the kit accessible to be built by everyone. The PDF format manual is very thorough and I would recommend these kits to almost all ages (that can safely handle a soldering iron) and especially for those wanting to build their first DIY quality audio kit. The manual takes you trough the whole process step by step. Being 67 pages long, it contains everything you need from start to finish. Aside from the actual build it will guide a complete novice kit builder with everything you need to know about safety when building such a kit and clear soldering lessons for both point-to-point and PC-board wiring/soldering.

There’s also enough advice on the best way to complete the woodwork and how to get a good-looking finish on the chokes, transformer bell and top plate.

When you’ve completed your kit there’s another five pages on the most common mistakes and how to troubleshoot your kit. I’ve found these tips also come in very handy for troubleshooting non-Bottlehead gear.


The Bottlehead forum is the place to be when you’re not confident about a part of your build, when you get freaky voltages, or other troubleshooting errors with your build. Apart from that it’s also the place to be if you’re thinking of eXperimenting a bit with upgrades like I did (more on this later). On this forum every question, whatever it is, is taken seriously and answered so that you’ll be able to continue your kit building journey and enjoy your product the most. This support forum is the part that got me confident enough to buy Crack (now 5-6 years ago). Be sure to have a look on it! Older topics are full of tips and tricks that might spare you some headaches with your future kit.


----------



## CAPT Deadpool

Tom-s said:


> For my to-be-build S.E.X. 3.0 I’m trying a write-up / product review. Started on this because both my ordered S3X and Mainline took 6 weeks to arrive. And now have been at some anodizing company for almost a month with no clear window on when I get them back.
> 
> This preview will be the start of my product review once the kit’s been build / tested / compared. Feel free to comment with tips and tricks! It’s my first try, but here it goes!
> 
> ...



Tom

I'm assembling my mainline now and heavily modifying my crack.  I would like to point out that page 38 of the Mainline manual has some parts where AC and DC are mixed up and at least one sentence is repeated.  I don't think it detracts from the Mainline but should be corrected and the manual reissued.  You should set your DMM to DC Volts when measuring the power supply.  Also the heater 6.3V circuit should be DC not AC (at least that is what is marked on the Power Supply Board and what showed up on my meter).  

I skipped the S.E.X. and went straight to Mainline.  But in the future I may want to build a speaker amp for high efficiency speakers and would like to hear your opinion of the kit.


----------



## Tom-s (Oct 25, 2018)

Thanks for that!

I only got my top plates in past Friday night. So last weekend i spent both days on the kits. Saturday i build the S3X and on Sunday it was Mainlining all the way (while listening to S3X)! .
Finally had time to complete resistance and voltage checks of the Mainline only last night due to some long days at work.

Here's some pictures to start with. Will do a write up later on.

Both are bone stock for now. Will start "upgrades" later on! Can you spot some upgraditis hints?


----------



## JamieMcC

Tom  the kits are looking good, great to see your up and running


----------



## KcMsterpce

Tom-s said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> I only got my top plates in past Friday night. So last weekend i spent both days on the kits. Saturday i build the S3X and on Sunday it was Mainlining all the way (while listening to S3X)! .
> Finally had time to complete resistance and voltage checks of the Mainline only last night due to some long days at work.
> ...



I like the work put in to give them your own personal touch! That green is S.E.Xy! 
How does the final build look on your Mainline? I have seen very few photos of finished Mainline internals after the builds were completed. Have any pics?


----------



## Tom-s

I will make some pictures of the Mainline before next weekend.
Last weekend build the C4S into S3X. Major improvement in sound.
Tonight i had the chance to put a new volume control in S3X. More details !
It is a shunt / series stepped attenuator like the Mainline's with Shinkoh/Vishay resistors.


----------



## itsikhefez

I read every post in this thread about capacitors for Mainline but still can't seem to find a conclusive answer....
I am highly considering tackling the Mainline later this month and wanted to swap in upgraded 10uf caps.
Assuming those RTI Teflons are obsolete at this point, these are some reasonable options:
Mundorf Supreme,
Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil,
Auricap XO,
Jantzen Audio Superior Z-Cap

I will be using HD650's and either LCD2C or HD800s (need to make a decision on this as well)


----------



## JamieMcC (Oct 31, 2018)

itsikhefez said:


> I read every post in this thread about capacitors for Mainline but still can't seem to find a conclusive answer....
> I am highly considering tackling the Mainline later this month and wanted to swap in upgraded 10uf caps.
> Assuming those RTI Teflons are obsolete at this point, these are some reasonable options:
> Mundorf Supreme,
> ...




I was thinking about selling my Mainline a little while back (temporary insanity) and decided I wanted to hang on to my RTI 10uf Teflons so swapped them out and put the original stock capacitors back in. By that time I had been using the Teflons in my Mainline with the HD800 for over three years going back to the stock ones the result was err interesting shall we say and leave it at that. However it confirmed for me that if your spending the sort of money the Mainline costs then it makes sense to seriously consider the cap upgrade options, good caps in the Mainline can have a very positive effect on the Mainline listening experience.

Knowing the difference a higher end  cap can make and wanting the new owner to have a great experience with the Mainline I picked up some used 10uf Audyn Cap Plus capacitors up on ebay and fitted them to the Mainline and was very impressed with their performance over the stock ones.

If your not in a hurry just keep a watch on ebay keep checking the new listings for capacitors and you can find some really good deals the two Audyn plus 10uf cost me £15 for the pair!

fwiw the Mainline and HD800 have superb synergy.


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi Tom nice work on the Sex volume control did you run into any issues at all with the mod or did it all go smoothly?


----------



## Tom-s

All went smoothly. But it's a small space to work in. So you really have to take your time.
Only mistake i made was switch the course attenuator channels left an right. As in, my wire from fine to course was to short for both to cross channels. So i crossed the resistors going from coarse to ground to make everything right again. In the end, all is ok.

After the volume pot upgrade i set out to put in some Ruskies in my S3X.
The most influential capacitors in S3X are the 1.5uF output coupling/parafeed capacitors.  Of smaller effect are changes to the 0.1uF interstage coupling capacitors. For my S3X I chose for a budget capacitor upgrade with FT-3 NOS Russian Teflon interstage coupling capacitors and MBGO-2 output coupling capacitors.

What I noticed with these upgrades was a positive effect on soundstage/details/tone with the parafeed capacitor change. This cap colours the sound quite a bit, so trying a few different caps in this position to match headphones/speakers can be worth it. The interstage coupling capacitor brought out more details, little extra musicality and tightened up the bass (most noticeable). In the future I plan on upgrading the parafeed capacitor to Audyn True copper max or Jupiter coppers when funds allow.

I'll leave S3X for a while now. More upgrades (power supply, input, output) to follow. I'll focus on Mainline caps next week.

Some pictures:


----------



## JamieMcC

Tom smart idea to insulate the metal bodies of those Russian caps, I did wonder if you planned to construct the upgraded attenuator on a small board separate from the build then drop it in place just leaving the connecting of the left and right channels and grounds to do in situ. 

I have yet to try any copper foils in my Sex but have a little experience of using them in a couple of other Bottlehead amps Mainline & Eros.

I burnt in some 0.47uf Duelund Cast Copper foil, paper in oils  (intended for my bottlehead Eros phono) in my Mainline adding them as bypasses to the RTI teflons. They probably had around 300hrs on them before they were swapped into a the Eros. I liked them in the mainline and was very tempted afterwards to try the 0.01uf Duelund silver foil bypass cap. 

The Bottlehead Eros I built in 2016 was already sounding very capable I had done a few common mods which were to use hand matched all Teflon capacitor RIAA stages, The 100uf electrolytic cathode capacitors were replaced with 98uf mkp film ones a few strategically located Kiwame  resistors and the EROS builders go to output cap the Russian 0.22uf Teflon these are often recommended on the Eros thread, plus of course some NOS EF86 chrome plate Telefunkens tubes.

The 0.47uf Duelund cast coppers replaced the Russian 0.22uf Tefons and while I thought they made a positive impact as bypasses in the Mainline in the Eros they truly shined and ratchetted up the performance the 3D spatiality and density of tone they delivered was on a whole different level than before.


----------



## Tom-s

Building a separate input board to use with the Elma rotary switches would be endgame. But those would need to be custom made in higher quantities that would make it both expensive and unpractible. So that’s a no-go. 

S3X for me was a budget build extra to Mainline and my first venture into the world of high efficiency speakers. 
And I must say, an eyeopener! This sounds so alive, so real, so open. 
What I learned most from S3X and Mainline after living with my upgraded Crack for many years is that it’s better to upgrade to a higher level amp/dac versus spending money that coupe almost get me a new amp on exotic caps/tubes.

So while Duelund caps will possibly take S3X to another level i’m holding my money for a fully packed Stereomour II and keep the upgrades for S3X more fit to it’s price range (Audyn true copper max).


----------



## Doc B.

Tom-s said:


> What I learned most from S3X and Mainline after living with my upgraded Crack for many years is that it’s better to upgrade to a higher level amp/dac versus spending money that could almost get me a new amp on exotic caps/tubes.



I've been trying to make that point for 23 years. Thank you. Refined circuit design will pretty much always trump boutique parts. We came up with the Crackatwoa as an alternative to putting silly expensive caps and tubes in a Crack, and a good part of why we make so many different headphone amp designs is to allow builders to experience this idea.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Nov 9, 2018)

Wasn't sure where to share this since the Crackatwoa does not have its own HF thread, but man oh man, this tube...

I have collected and compared nearly every Crackatwoa compatible, reputable 6AS7 variant power tube out there, with the exception of the GEC 6080 and 6AS7G since they are nearly impossible to find in the USA.  Tubes I have in collection include several Tung Sol 5998's, a Tung Sol 421A, multiple Western Electric 421A's, Bendix 6080WB (graphite), Chatham 6080WB (graphite), Tung Sol 6080's, Tung Sol 6AS7G's, Mullard CV2984, and a handful of others.

I recently received an Ebay notification on a saved search a created well over a year ago and had completely forgotten about: "Tung Sol 7802", I had read an instance of a Bottlehead forum user mentioning that this tube was sublime, but pretty rare.  A was fortunately able to acquire five of them for around $80, what a steal!  When I first got the tubes, I gave them a passing listen, assumed that they fell somewhere in the 6080 lineup in terms of performance, and went back to my default, the 421A.

Then the other day, I decided to give them another go.  WOW I have been missing out.  IMO, after doing some comparisons, this tube easily rivals the 5998 and WE 421A in terms of clarity, resolution, soundstage.  I would say it is a little brighter than those two tubes and more mid-forward, but an absolutely pleasing listen and a top performer in my Crackatwoa.

Just wanted to share this PSA: if you happen across one of these tubes, don't hesitate to grab it, truly a diamond in the rough.


----------



## Tom-s

So. Who's first to guess what's in my Crack?


----------



## adydula

1pc Dual Gold GEC A2293 CV4079 instead 6AS7 6080 tube adapter.


----------



## pure5152 (Jan 28, 2019)

Not sure if this belongs here, but where do you guys get 6FJ7 tubes for the SEX 3.0?  And do you know if the tubes have to be matched, or can you just use any 6FJ7 tubes from any manufacturer?

EDIT:  While I'm at it, I'll say I LOVE the amount and quality of soundstage out of the SEX.  Very wide, yet resolving with excellent imaging and texture.  Coming from the Lyr 3, it's an appreciable improvement.  It's just that one of the tubes has started to develop crackling/noise...


----------



## adydula

Any tube that is a 6FJ7 should work in the circuit. Of course it needs to be a good, functioning tube. There wil be many people that will tell you one tube of the same type is much desired over abother brand etc...this has been debatable since the beginning of time.

There are many places to buy these....

Alex


----------



## pure5152

adydula said:


> Any tube that is a 6FJ7 should work in the circuit. Of course it needs to be a good, functioning tube. There wil be many people that will tell you one tube of the same type is much desired over abother brand etc...this has been debatable since the beginning of time.
> 
> There are many places to buy these....
> 
> Alex



Hey thanks Alex.  Yeah I read in this thread and other places that tube swapping doesn’t really make a difference for the SEX, but didn’t know if the two tubes still had to be the same brand/matched, or if any old tube would work.  Based on your answer, it seems like any old tube would work, so I’ll plan on just buying a 6FJ7 anywhere I can find one


----------



## adydula

If the tubes are made to the same specs thats great, if I were you I would try to get the same brand in the same date/time if at all possible.
But if you cant then you could buy two tubes and replace them both, and ask the supplier to match if they can.

But again I doubt it that it really would matter that much...

Alex


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 3, 2019)

I finally got the crack working correctly after trouble shooting for longest time.  It was a struggle, but I found out something really interesting about something to keep in mind of building this amp.  I'm sure people that has gone through the build would know well, but I will emphasize, make sure soldering are done well with smooth fluid soldering appearance like stated in the manual.

I issue I finally realized is in regards to the headphone jack soldering (which probably or maybe quite common).  The soldering of the headphone jacks needs to be soldered really well or you will run into following symptoms:

1. buzzing or hummm, you will notice when nothing is playing
2. sound distortion like there is clipping when you raise the volume
3. Only one channel working, or one channel has significantly more loudness than the other.

And yes, this is from ineffective soldering job (it's not just lack of solder, it seems like the leads needs to be completely covered with fluid solder).  I was surprised as this isn't something I'd expect.

Otherwise, I am pleasantly surprised with this thing.  I didn't expect this to sound like it does.  I expected it to sound too warm being OTL, which isn't the case.  It's a good amp for HD650/6XX like others has been saying, and if you are itching to try a tube and want to tackle a build, this one is definately worth building.  But, I want to warm you that it's not easy if you haven't done this sort of thing in the past or never soldered before.

I've got the speedball all soldered and ready to add it, and just listening to the crack without the upgrade before trying out with the speedball.  I wonder what the speedballl will do, it doesn't sound like the amp is slow or anything.


----------



## adydula

Congratultions on the build....my advice to you is to not do the Speedball for some time, give it a few weeks or months to really make sure all is well and you really get to become used to the sound that the Crack makes with the music you listen to.

Especially if you had issues with soldering etc....if you install speedball and have issues like before your going to be really depressed that you took a good working amp, spent more money and are having issues again! 

Soldering is an "art" I hae been doing it for many years its like second nature, its takes practice and more practice, learning how much heat to apply and for how long, and learning how to make sure your leads, wires, contacts are clean of any residue that might impede a good bond. 

Flowing solder on a large contact with several wires attached and a resistor etc requires lots of heat. flowing solder around the joint might look shiney and good, but if not heated all the way thru..not getting the contact on the headphone jack or potentiometer lug you can get a "cold" joint that looks good from the outside but really is not.....some parts here might have a good connection but possibly not all to the lug or terminal strip etc....thus reheating stuff to get them really hot fixes those kinds of things as well.....

But sometimes if the lug or pin your soldering too, if not clean will cause the same issue...this is relieved by cleaning the area, using flux to aid in cleaning and promoting a good joint.

Many people have built Cracks as their first time DIY project and have been successful, others not so successful..but most get thru it and are glad they did....

Its a really simple, great design and once your done its a real treat to listen to!!

I use HD 600's T90's and T1's on it and they all are superlative to listen to with the Crack!

When you get ready to install the crack take your time, make sure your parts are in the right place and orientated correctly.

It does change the sound and most like it....this is why you should listen to what you have now so you can tell how it changes etc..

Again Congrats on your build!

Alex


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 3, 2019)

adydula said:


> Congratultions on the build....my advice to you is to not do the Speedball for some time, give it a few weeks or months to really make sure all is well and you really get to become used to the sound that the Crack makes with the music you listen to.
> 
> Especially if you had issues with soldering etc....if you install speedball and have issues like before your going to be really depressed that you took a good working amp, spent more money and are having issues again!
> 
> ...


Thanks, I have been listening to it plenty so that I get an idea of it's characteristics before the Speedball upgrade.  I'm getting pretty familiar with it as this point.  I can imagine the tonality being one of the characteristic that people would prefer if they like this amp.  It does seem to make headphone tonality a bit on the warm side and thicker.  Kinda gives a pleasant and musical character to the output.  Sometimes technical headphones needs tonal change bring it down to earth to be pleasant sounding.  I think HD650/6XX sounds well this this amp is because 650/6XX tends to smoothen out the sound a bit, works well in this combo.  The female vocals particularly has the 650/6XX forwardness with smoothness out of this combo.

I can see HD800/S getting a bit of body to the sound if that is what one is seeking (in which I know people want a bit of).  I was thinking perhaps, more warmth on the 6XX may not be desirable, but actually seems fine and pleasant in a way, as I was expecting more warmth.  I think what's likable that is brought out from this amp is the extended decay of the sounds, probably related to the warmth adds a bit of ambient feel to the sounds.  I think the amp adds a bit of thickness to the sounds.  For something like the 650/6XX I think it sound slightly warmer than the clarity can be brought though (this is likely due to the high output impedance), but it's in exchange for rich tonality (so, it's about the amount that one wants, more saturation or damped).

Does the Mainline get more refined sounding?


----------



## adydula

Does the Mainline get more refined sounding.....in one word "Yes"....

Its definitely a TOTL amp for headphones for me....no question. 

It too pairs so well with the HD600's as well as other lower impedance devices....a lot more detailed in the build...lots of stuff to
do..and get wrong if your not careful....

I listen to the Crack for days, then try the Mainline and ask myself why bother with the Crack at all....its that good..

But....whe I go back to the Crack the sound is just different in a good way...so I have kept it for the past few years.

The mainline is just clearer, more open sound, better soundstage IMO etc...just more like real music....

I would say the Crack is say 80-85% "there" and the Mainline is "95% + "there"....

Its quite a price delta, but it works well with cans that the crack just can not and never will.

Also with the Mainline there is little tube swapping, the 6C45Pi's are a fantastic linear tube that is just magic.

There is really no need to look for the golden tube here, its there already!!.

Good luck with you Speedball upgrade when you get around to it..let us know how it goes.

Alex


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 3, 2019)

adydula said:


> Does the Mainline get more refined sounding.....in one word "Yes"....
> 
> Its definitely a TOTL amp for headphones for me....no question.
> 
> ...


I like pop vocals with HD6XX out of the crack.  HD6XX blends sounds well for vocals out of this thing giving a bit of that full-ness to the vocal sounds when listening.  I don't feel satisfied when vocals doesn't sound like it has full tonality, and the treble sounds like it has some glare/unruliness, undesired bits of sparkle, and this is result of mix of the mastering, tubes, and headphone tonal response.  Tubes and solid-state responds differently to peaky treble from the mastering.  This is the reason why I have a 6XX around.

The bass sounds increased and sounds more responanced or sounds with more decay, and this I think is likely caused by the 120 ohm output impedace being OTL.  So, there is increased warmth due to the output impedance, but not significantly as expected.  It does cause vocal to sound sweet and pleasant with HD6XX like mentioned above.


----------



## B0NES

We got a sale on SEX, fam! Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this so I hope it's ok. $449 for the Bottlehead SEX and $484 with C4S. 

https://bottlehead.com/product/single-ended-experimenters-kit-3-for-headphones-sensitive-speakers/

This would be my first Bottlehead gear (and attempt at DIY). Currently, I'm rocking an HD 650 + Jotunheim w/ phono + Bimby. Looking to keep my HD 650 and add speakers a bit later so I'm seriously considering pulling the trigger now.


----------



## JamieMcC

Sex would be my choice of the bottlehead headphone amps for best bang for your buck for sure.


----------



## KcMsterpce (Feb 5, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> I finally got the crack working correctly after trouble shooting for longest time.  It was a struggle, but I found out something really interesting about something to keep in mind of building this amp.  I'm sure people that has gone through the build would know well, but I will emphasize, make sure soldering are done well with smooth fluid soldering appearance like stated in the manual.
> 
> I issue I finally realized is in regards to the headphone jack soldering (which probably or maybe quite common).  The soldering of the headphone jacks needs to be soldered really well or you will run into following symptoms:
> 
> ...



I also recommend using the Crack for a few weeks. Get used to it, then upgrade. The Speedball is a dramatic improvement, made even more "fun" after getting used to the unmodified build. I talk about my Bottlehead stuff on YouTube. The videos are meant for my friends who ask about my stuff, and so my descriptions are fairly topical and elementary. I plan to get more descriptive as I go into future episodes. (If I do more.)
Either way, episodes 6-8 talk Bottlehead (Crack, Crack w/Speedball, then the Mainline). If you just got yours done, take a look at how different the Speedball is, and maybe even use the closeup shots as a preparation/example when you plan to move forward with the Speedball...


If you want more detailed description(s) about one amp to another, PM me and I will try to help with specifics on my impressions.


----------



## CAPT Deadpool

KcMsterpce said:


> I also recommend using the Crack for a few weeks. Get used to it, then upgrade. The Speedball is a dramatic improvement, made even more "fun" after getting used to the unmodified build. I talk about my Bottlehead stuff on YouTube. The videos are meant for my friends who ask about my stuff, and so my descriptions are fairly topical and elementary. I plan to get more descriptive as I go into future episodes. (If I do more.)
> Either way, episodes 6-8 talk Bottlehead (Crack, Crack w/Speedball, then the Mainline). If you just got yours done, take a look at how different the Speedball is, and maybe even use the closeup shots as a preparation/example when you plan to move forward with the Speedball...
> 
> 
> If you want more detailed description(s) about one amp to another, PM me and I will try to help with specifics on my impressions.




I have a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball and a Mainline.  I love both. 

I'm still working on a bunch of mods to my Crack to include separating the power supply into a separate enclosure, adding a Schotky diode rectification circuit, upgrading caps (Daytons), input selector 2 pair RCA in, output selector (rca pre and head), dual mono black velvet attenuation, vu meters, and more.  I'll try to post Pics when done.


----------



## KcMsterpce

CAPT Deadpool said:


> I have a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball and a Mainline.  I love both.
> 
> I'm still working on a bunch of mods to my Crack to include separating the power supply into a separate enclosure, adding a Schotky diode rectification circuit, upgrading caps (Daytons), input selector 2 pair RCA in, output selector (rca pre and head), dual mono black velvet attenuation, vu meters, and more.  I'll try to post Pics when done.


I think it's pretty cool that you like to tweak/upgrade the Bottlehead. I wouldn't mind doing that, but for me, I wouldn't stop tweaking and fiddling. It's better that I don't engross myself into yet another time and money sink hobby. I plan on getting another OTL some time soon. I've had several years with my Bottleheads now. I'm ready to move "up".

I love the Crack w/Speedball for its price to performance ratio. Insanely good.
The Mainline is spendy, but it is so much more refined, revealing, and pleasant to listen to. Where the Crack is pronounced, and likes to show off (Speedball), the Mainline kind of creeps up on you and doesn't _have_ to show off. The Speedball is the hare, and the Mainline is the tortoise. It takes more time to get really familiar with the Mainline, but it just _grows on you_, whereas the Crack hits you right away, and demands your attention.


----------



## Tom-s

JamieMcC said:


> Sex would be my choice of the bottlehead headphone amps for best bang for your buck for sure.



I'm with Jamie on this one. 
Especially while it's on sale!

I always thought Crack was most bang for buck. But now that i own Crack, S3X (with C4S) and Mainline my perspective changed. 
Use S3X with Klipsh Heresy III speakers and HD800 / AKG K340 headphones, really shines with all.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 9, 2019)

I just installed the Speedball upgrade on the crack.  I had the Speedball soldered and ready to go, and thought it would be a quick install, but no.  It took quite a bit of time to get the speedball wired up.

As far as soldering, I got it to work on the first go, which I was happy with.  Because for the regular crack build, I had to trouble-shoot the headphone jack, and took me awhile to figure out the headphone jack needed good soldering, which isn't visually obvious.  Speedball needs more precision soldering, and I'd recommend using a sharper point soldering iron for it.

What really puzzles me is why the headphone jack is so sensitive to soldering job (and the symptoms were quite interesting).  Speedball is as I expect for the soldering job, no trouble with it.

I do notice improvement in sound with speedball.  The treble seem to have gotten smoother (more detailed sounding), lower-mids warmth subsided a bit (tighter bass response), more clarity, and probably the most noticeable change is the imaging, and it's more apparent with something like HD800S.  

In general with the HD6XX, I think without the Speedball, Crack is warmer, and with speedball, sound gets less warm with greater clarity.  I like how crack sounds, particularly with Speedball.  Definitely worth getting if you have high impedance cans like Sennheiser 300 ohm.

The improvment seems most obvious with HD600.  Like previous posters that pointed out the HD600 sounding great.  I can wholeheartedly agree that Speedball upgrade brings out the greatness ouf of the HD600.


----------



## Thenewbie76

Has anybody tried the ZMF aeolus with the bottlehead crack? I got a THX 789 AMP powering the Aelous and they sound great but I just wanna know how they sound with the Aeolus . Also I might use it with my hd 600


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 27, 2019)

Thenewbie76 said:


> Has anybody tried the ZMF aeolus with the bottlehead crack? I got a THX 789 AMP powering the Aelous and they sound great but I just wanna know how they sound with the Aeolus . Also I might use it with my hd 600


It's an OTL so output impedance is quite high (120 ohms), but interestingly, it sounds good with Sennheisers 300 ohms, notably the 6 series. Interesting how well the 300 ohm 6 series matches up with crack.

Look into what ohms those ZMF headphones are and if high enough, Crack is worth trying out if they are high impedance dynamic drivers I say. It's a different kind of sound than you get with solid-state. One issue I can foresee is if ZMF headphones are already a bit warm due to the wood because the OTL provides a bit of low-end warmth to the Sennheisers, but still sounding clear as Sennheisers are not as significantly warm as the ZMF headphones.  Best way to know is trial.

Sex is not as warm as Crack, so sex might be the better fit for ZMF, and also it has low output impedance of 4 ohms.  The thing is Crack's OTL creates an interesting thicker sound(but, not muddy) to the Sennheisers and also imaging is interesting for it as well.  Sex is slightly more precise with slightly more texture peaks to the images with less low-end warmth, seemingly more neutral response, but I don't know about morr interesting...

I find Crack's imaging so damn interesting with HD600/6XX/650.


----------



## Thenewbie76

SilverEars said:


> It's an OTL so output impedance is quite high (120 ohms), but interestingly, it sounds good with Sennheisers 300 ohms, notably the 6 series. Interesting how well the 300 ohm 6 series matches up with crack.
> 
> Look into what ohms those ZMF headphones are and if high enough, Crack is worth trying out if they are high impedance dynamic drivers I say. It's a different kind of sound than you get with solid-state. One issue I can foresee is if ZMF headphones are already a bit warm due to the wood because the OTL provides a bit of low-end warmth to the Sennheisers, but still sounding clear as Sennheisers are not as significantly warm as the ZMF headphones.  Best way to know is trial.
> 
> ...


Thx for the insight but I don't think I'm prepared to take up the sex as my first audio D.i.y project.  I feel like taking baby steps . Also it's pretty much this or the Little dot mk3 I will get. Lastly I don't think the Aeolus is too warm for me. If it does end up getting too warm can't I just get 'bright' sounding tubes to shift the sound signature?


----------



## omniweltall

SilverEars said:


> It's an OTL so output impedance is quite high (120 ohms), but interestingly, it sounds good with Sennheisers 300 ohms, notably the 6 series. Interesting how well the 300 ohm 6 series matches up with crack.
> 
> Look into what ohms those ZMF headphones are and if high enough, Crack is worth trying out if they are high impedance dynamic drivers I say. It's a different kind of sound than you get with solid-state. One issue I can foresee is if ZMF headphones are already a bit warm due to the wood because the OTL provides a bit of low-end warmth to the Sennheisers, but still sounding clear as Sennheisers are not as significantly warm as the ZMF headphones.  Best way to know is trial.
> 
> ...


Zmf is 300ohm. I have a feeling it will sound good with the crack. 

But most people use the crack with senns 6-series. I heard many times that they are match made in heaven. I think hd600 might be an even better match than hd650/6xx.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Mar 27, 2019)

Thenewbie76 said:


> Has anybody tried the ZMF aeolus with the bottlehead crack? I got a THX 789 AMP powering the Aelous and they sound great but I just wanna know how they sound with the Aeolus . Also I might use it with my hd 600


The Aeolus sounds very good with my Crack.  Get the speed ball, if you build a Crack. 

Compared to my Jotunheim:  Sound stage widens a bit, and it takes on a buttery smooth and rich sound.  Bass extension is ok, but not what you will find in the Jotunheim.  With that said, it still kicks like a mule where called for.  Treble extension and detail are perfectly acceptable, but again, the Jotunheim seems to extend more but ends up sounding a little brittle in this area.  I prefer the Crack here.   Mid range is rich, mesmerizing, and so much better than my Jotunheim. 

I've had the little dot loaned to me, and I don't care for it.  It had no soul.  I've owned the MCTH, Lyr 3, Jotunheim, Element, and other $300 - $600 amps, and the Crack is the only one I've kept.  The MCTH sounds too soft, the Lyr 3 is quite good but not as truly "tubey" sounding, the Jotunheim pulls preamp duty for my studio monitors but doesn't get headphone time at all, and the Element is neutral but lifeless in comparison.

The Crack is a rule breaker.  Measurement objectivists need not apply.  Subjectively, the Crack brings soul and feeling to the music.  A sit down and get lost in the music for hours kind of experience. 

Don't get crazy with capacitor upgrades and all that.  An Alps pot upgrade, the Speedball, and a good tube selection are all I would suggest.  Putting more $ into it than that, and you might as well get the CrackATwoA or Glenn OTL if you want better sound.

Hope that helps.


----------



## adydula

Agree with that.....speedball and the ALPS pot upgrade. The low end tracking was abit off with the stock pot, the real Alps replacement made this go away and its perfect now.

Alex


----------



## Thenewbie76

@SilverEars thx for the insight. But I agree with what you say. Thin


ProfFalkin said:


> The Aeolus sounds very good with my Crack.  Get the speed ball, if you build a Crack.
> 
> Compared to my Jotunheim:  Sound stage widens a bit, and it takes on a buttery smooth and rich sound.  Bass extension is ok, but not what you will find in the Jotunheim.  With that said, it still kicks like a mule where called for.  Treble extension and detail are perfectly acceptable, but again, the Jotunheim seems to extend more but ends up sounding a little brittle in this area.  I prefer the Crack here.   Mid range is rich, mesmerizing, and so much better than my Jotunheim.
> 
> ...


that is so good to know coming form another aeolus owner. I just wanna say that I might hold off on getting the speedball first just to see how it sounds without it and then get the speedball . But how do I find this ALPS pot upgrade? What is it? Where do I find it because I don't see it under the bottlehead headphone amp website


----------



## adydula

https://www.parts-express.com/alps-...MI8OfW2YTr3wIVlODICh0kKA6GEAYYASABEgInUfD_BwE


----------



## ProfFalkin (Mar 28, 2019)

Thenewbie76 said:


> @SilverEars thx for the insight. But I agree with what you say. Thin
> 
> that is so good to know coming form another aeolus owner. I just wanna say that I might hold off on getting the speedball first just to see how it sounds without it and then get the speedball . But how do I find this ALPS pot upgrade? What is it? Where do I find it because I don't see it under the bottlehead headphone amp website





adydula said:


> https://www.parts-express.com/alps-...MI8OfW2YTr3wIVlODICh0kKA6GEAYYASABEgInUfD_BwE



^^^^^^   Yep.

What he said.

https://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=11314.msg102859#msg102859

Some people have put audio note potentiometers in there instead.  I think the Alps is just fine.  

If you're completely bereft of reason, you can put a Khozmo or Gold Point pot in there.


----------



## adydula

There is also a 99 cent PCB you need to mount the pot to.....I cant find the link but its in the Crack Forum at bottlehead.com

You could ask Paul for the info, he posted it awhile back..

Alex


----------



## itsikhefez

A bit pricier but I've found this one useful in the past:
https://www.amb.org/audio/epsilon27/


----------



## Thenewbie76

@ProfFalkin Can I just ask.  Just to confirm a audio potentiometer is to help with the volume pot right and won't offer any difference in sound right?


----------



## adydula

The Alps I used didnt change the sound at all....all it did was add a really nice volume control that rotates really smooth
and has great low end tracking, mechanically. The stock pot I got was not that good on the lower settings from 8 oclock to 10 o-clock..

You need to use the pcb either the 99 cent one or the more expensive one...no real reason to spend alot of money on that board.

You will need to notch out the wooden case on the pot side...pix are at BH Crack forum.

This is because of the pcb board width.

Alex


----------



## adydula (Mar 28, 2019)

https://www.ebay.com/i/323385609326...&rk=5&rkt=14&sd=233075923823&itm=323385609326

Took three weeks to arrive from over there....
Worked just fine.


----------



## ProfFalkin

Thenewbie76 said:


> @ProfFalkin Can I just ask.  Just to confirm a audio potentiometer is to help with the volume pot right and won't offer any difference in sound right?


The volume pot is a *pot*entiometer.   

Same same.


----------



## Thenewbie76

ProfFalkin said:


> The volume pot is a *pot*entiometer.
> 
> Same same.


Good to know


----------



## tvr2500m

Two things about this bit of this Bottlehead Crack thread:

1. An attenuator can affect the sound quality. Lots of manufacturers work hard to even eliminate the conventional potentiometer or attenuator, removing that device from the signal path because it can affect sonic character - frequency, phase and timing, noise, dynamics, distortion, channel balance. The Crack is a wonderful device. It's designed to a value point and pulls this off well offering excellent performance for the money. The stock volume pot is cheaper than chips. It's as basic as it comes. The one in my Crack works well - it's quiet, tracks well, and feels nice enough. Just precise tracking for precise channel balance can be very important - if you want your system, whether headphones or conventional speakers, to place the played back elements back in the place they were captured in. This will influence imaging and soundstage. And that affects the sound.

2. I agree that it's a good idea to spend some time with the stock Crack without the Speedball. It lets you shake down the Crack to make sure all's well, and lets you baseline the sonics for a reference to see whether the Speedball makes any difference and any difference you might prefer. Some people may like the sound of the stock Crack. The stock Crack may be a good synergy with the rest of your system and your own preferences. Bottlehead recommends this, too.


----------



## adydula

Tis true...but you will never know what the Speedball does unless you install it!

:>)


----------



## adydula

I have a lot of headphone amps....actually too many!! 

I rotate them every week ot two and am always enamored with the "new" amp in rotation.
Today the Schitt Vahalla2 went into semi-retirement and the Crack with Speedball and the new Alp pot came into rotation.

Using a RCA 6AS7G coke bottle and a NOS 5963 .

Listening as I write, with Beyer T1 2nd gens....

In one word "AWESOME"...

Absolutely marvelous soundstage and imaging..holographic...live performances are very realistic...

More than enough power to make the T1's dance...

Said this before and will say it again...this amp the way it sounds right now could easily be the end game to me...

Yeah...its that good....

This amp is a steal!

Alex


----------



## tvr2500m

adydula said:


> Tis true...but you will never know what the Speedball does unless you install it!
> 
> :>)


'Tis true... ...and I do much prefer the Crack + Speedball.


----------



## itsikhefez

I never heard the Crack but I have built a Mainline and it is my primary amp for the past few months.
I have another DIY SS which has been redundant since the Mainline joined, and don't need an additional amp.

But I was curious if the Crack+SB adds any value if I already use the Mainline?
My primary cans are all high impedance, HD650 and most recently a ZMF Aeolus


----------



## adydula

I have both. I honestly do not think the crack is any better than a Mainline.

Different design and a different sound presentation for sure.

There are times I swear the Crack is "better" sounding but after listening for several days with the Crack and switching to the Mainline
its like wow! This Mainline is even better than the Crack that I like so much.

The Mainline works with a wider range of headphone impedances and has that nice stepped attenuator...

The 6C45Pi's in Mainline are a very very good tube...linear etc...and no need for tube swapping etc...

If you have the bug for diy and soldering etc and have disposable bucks heck go for it!!

Its a neat amp for the price and will make you smile as well...

Alex


----------



## Tom-s

The following post if my opinion. Based on my experience with these amps.

I've used Crack, S3X and Mainline with the same DAC/pre-amp the last few months on my desk. Feeding Sennheiser HD800's (SDR) most of the time. Second choice are AKG K340's. 
What i do note is that when i use more "hi-fi" tubes with Crack, like the E80CC or 5692 Ayadula mentioned above (also listening to that right now!), it's not that much different from S3X or Mainline. What i mean to say is; i'm not missing anything with Crack. It's all in there, just a different presentation. 

Ranked in order of use:
1. Crack (did anyone mention that tube-rolling is fun?)
2. Mainline
3. S3X

Even with Mainline and S3X next to it, my Crack gets most usage.

Ranked in order of sound quality:
1. Mainline
2. S3X
3. Crack

This is a no-brainer, if you are looking for the best. Get a Mainline. It is the best. Period.

Ranked in order of versatility:
1. S3X (it's moving again to a different room, for speaker use only).
2. Mainline
3. Crack

S3X can feed speakers aswel as headphones in all genres. I've listened to it with various efficient speakers, B&W P9's, HD800's and LCD3's and all sound good with S3X.

Ranked in order of learning experience:
1. Crack
2. S3X
3. Mainline

Crack is the most simple circuit, with the most room for improvement. This makes for a lot of opportunity to learn about circuitry and the effect of certain parts on the actual sound.
As the volume-pot mentioned above. The Bottlehead team put in a good basic volume pot and left enough room in Crack to let the builder put in any pot they wish for. 

Ranked in order of sheer fun:
1. Crack
2. Crack
3. Crack

For me, the fun in Crack is derived for the majority from the learning experience. The other part is tube-rolling. Crack is made for tube-rolling.

Ranked for ease of build.
1. You can build them. All three.
2. Yes, you read correct. The manual is so good that with determination everyone can build a Bottlehead kit.
3. I build my Crack with 0 experience in electronics (even had to buy my first soldering iron before i could start).

The quality of the manual and support are the most important things about a DIY kit. And Bottlehead in my experience, is brilliant with both. They deliver a very thorough manual, that takes you trough the whole build, step by step. Everything is in there, from the first soldering lesson up to safety instructions on how to check your amp and where to start when you need to troubleshoot.
If you can't figure it out on your own, there's the support forum where the team will stay with you until your problems are all resolved (when needed).
When you buy a Bottlehead kit, your not on your own to build just a kit. You also buy a very complete manual that will guide you and a team that will give advice until you've completed your journey and are 100% satisfied with your build.

Sorry, what was the question? xD


----------



## attmci (Mar 29, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> The volume pot is a *pot*entiometer.
> 
> Same same.


Yup, same unless you want to pay several hundred for a pot (not for the crack, pls).


----------



## attmci (Mar 28, 2019)

Tom-s said:


> The following post if my opinion. Based on my experience with these amps.
> 
> I've used Crack, S3X and Mainline with the same DAC/pre-amp the last few months on my desk. Feeding Sennheiser HD800's (SDR) most of the time. Second choice are AKG K340's.
> What i do note is that when i use more "hi-fi" tubes with Crack, like the E80CC or 5692 Ayadula mentioned above (also listening to that right now!), it's not that much different from S3X or Mainline. What i mean to say is; i'm not missing anything with Crack. It's all in there, just a different presentation.
> ...


There are other amps you can roll you tubes like crazy. 

Then you need to roll headphones and DACs. Way to go! LOL

BTW, the Mainline is the best of the three from the Bottlehead. Period.


----------



## NightFlight (Mar 29, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> The Aeolus sounds very good with my Crack.  Get the speed ball, if you build a Crack.
> 
> The Crack is a rule breaker.  Measurement objectivists need not apply.  Subjectively, the Crack brings soul and feeling to the music.  A sit down and get lost in the music for hours kind of experience.
> Don't get crazy with capacitor upgrades and all that.  An Alps pot upgrade, the Speedball, and a good tube selection are all I would suggest.  Putting more $ into it than that, and you might as well get the CrackATwoA or Glenn OTL if you want better sound.
> Hope that helps.



One of the best upgrades to do once you've maxed out your Crack and thinking of selling is to replace the power rectifier net with Cree diodes on a PCB. https://www.partsconnexion.com/DIODES-68247.html
I like how in this thread Doc goes ahead and suggests you may as well upgrade to a Mainline if  your starting to mess with your power supply at this level of quanta.   I disagree. Upgrade your crack for a couple bux and see if you like it. The diodes are kind of the building blocks and clean up the PS a lot. IMHO.

IMHO changing the diodes out after you've done everything else will make you hungry for a bit more and maybe Mainline is a good direction after that.


----------



## ProfFalkin (Mar 30, 2019)

NightFlight said:


> One of the best upgrades to do once you've maxed out your Crack and thinking of selling is to replace the power rectifier net with Cree diodes on a PCB. https://www.partsconnexion.com/DIODES-68247.html
> I like how in this thread Doc goes ahead and suggests you may as well upgrade to a Mainline if  your starting to mess with your power supply at this level of quanta.   I disagree. Upgrade your crack for a couple bux and see if you like it. The diodes are kind of the building blocks and clean up the PS a lot. IMHO.
> 
> IMHO changing the diodes out after you've done everything else will make you hungry for a bit more and maybe Mainline is a good direction after that.


I don't doubt it offers improvements, and the diode and pcb are pretty cheap.

With that said, and IMO, every upgrade past Speedball seems to be a 1-2% improvement in sound.  Sure, you can add the diode, pcb, new caps, bypass caps, choke, silver wire, and so on, and so forth...  But what are you getting?  10-15% total improvement for 300% to 500% of the original price?  Honestly, I don't think the squeeze is worth the juice.  I'd rather put the money into better tubes or source.   As Doc suggests, a better design will beat out boutique part upgrades every time, so you might as well get Crack-a-two-a or Mainline.

Different philosophies I suppose.


----------



## Wes S

Hey guys,

I am really interested in building a crack, but I am a little hesitant.  I have used a soldering iron, and have made about 8 headphone cables, so far, with 100% success.  How much harder is it to solder on boards, and get this amp built?


----------



## attmci

Wes S said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am really interested in building a crack, but I am a little hesitant.  I have used a soldering iron, and have made about 8 headphone cables, so far, with 100% success.  How much harder is it to solder on boards, and get this amp built?


Dear friend, It's pretty straight forward. And the Bottlehead community can help you when needed. There is a video:


Have fun!


----------



## adydula

I like DIY and mucking with stuff....for 40+ years....the diode change is nice, but sonically it IMO doesnt really add much if anything at all sonically to my ears..that said its a really cheap change and who knows to each their own and if it sounds better to you enjoy!

Alex


----------



## adydula (Mar 30, 2019)

The crack is an great first time adventure.

The hard part is soldering, cutting the wires to length properly...being careful not to have parts short out to each other.

IF you have patience and TAKE YOUR TIME, work slowly, follow the instructions, read them over and over before you do something.

You will have a great headphone amp at the end of the project.

Cables and soldering and terminating them carefully is a good test..if you can do that then you can build a crack.

Alex


----------



## Wes S

attmci said:


> Dear friend, It's pretty straight forward. And the Bottlehead community can help you when needed. There is a video:
> 
> 
> Have fun!



Cool beans!  Thanks


----------



## adydula

Watch the video...great tips ane things to think about...the tools and their proper useage etc...


----------



## LarryM

Bottlehead instructions are expansive and clearly illustrated.  Anyone with basic soldering skills and patience can build a Crack.


----------



## cddc

Very good write-up, thou I think HD650/600/800 should have being used instead of T1, especially for the Crack. 

Appreciate the efforts to put together all the stuff!!! Subscribed.


----------



## adydula

I use both the HD600 and T1's....both are great but very different.

Been listening for a week with 600's just switched to T1's....its like the warmth and  musicality that was missing with the 600's are back.

The 600's by themselves, are clear, clean, articulate and present so well...its just they are missing the "body or soul" of the music IMO.

When using one or the other for a week or so I get used to the goodness of both...and both on there own are really very good.

I have got to the point where I can tell which ones to use with which music or recording I want to listen to.

Alex


----------



## NightFlight (Apr 2, 2019)

ProfFalkin said:


> I don't doubt it offers improvements, and the diode and pcb are pretty cheap.
> 
> With that said, and IMO, every upgrade past Speedball seems to be a 1-2% improvement in sound.  Sure, you can add the diode, pcb, new caps, bypass caps, choke, silver wire, and so on, and so forth...  But what are you getting?  10-15% total improvement for 300% to 500% of the original price?  Honestly, I don't think the squeeze is worth the juice.  I'd rather put the money into better tubes or source.   As Doc suggests, a better design will beat out boutique part upgrades every time, so you might as well get Crack-a-two-a or Mainline.
> 
> Different philosophies I suppose.



Hmm, the crappy diodes in the original PS make a ton of noise, thus the choke and other mods down the line.  I'd argue that component changes at the right place in the circuit can equate to a circuit change.
% improvement is also subjective, so were comparing apples to .... something else.  The cost involved can also affect subjective interpretation.


----------



## adydula (Apr 2, 2019)

Funny when I when I listen to my Crack, with the crappy diodes I never hear "tons of noise"???''
..and I dont have the choke mod (s)..but I do have a volume pot "upgrade" a nice genuine ALPS.

The only reason I did this was the tracking on the low end of the pot I got was off....simple as that.

I hear no real audible sonic difference with the new ALPS pot, but it sure feels nicer and the tracking is
really very close now...

Alex


----------



## NightFlight

Its not like a slap in the face difference. I'm just saying that for me, I found it was worth the time to modify the diode section in the power supply. In fact, I didn't even really do it.  I sold my Crack to a friend and he did it.  When hearing the changes afterwards I found it audible, so I naturally assumed it was an improvement without being able to go back to the original. 
But then again its a subjective impression and I am easily impressed. Grains of salt apply.  Still, I would recommend it as its cheap and relatively easy to do, especially if you have done all the other common mods already. It all adds up. 

The POTs selected for the Crack are entry level and notoriously cheap.  Its a kit and kind of expected that you might want to put better parts in.


----------



## adydula

Yup for a "el cheapo" kit with "sub-standard" parts it sure holds it own against many other devices with "standard" parts...

:>)

Alex


----------



## L0rdGwyn

ProfFalkin said:


> I don't doubt it offers improvements, and the diode and pcb are pretty cheap.
> 
> With that said, and IMO, every upgrade past Speedball seems to be a 1-2% improvement in sound.  Sure, you can add the diode, pcb, new caps, bypass caps, choke, silver wire, and so on, and so forth...  But what are you getting?  10-15% total improvement for 300% to 500% of the original price?  Honestly, I don't think the squeeze is worth the juice.  I'd rather put the money into better tubes or source.   As Doc suggests, a better design will beat out boutique part upgrades every time, so you might as well get Crack-a-two-a or Mainline.
> 
> Different philosophies I suppose.



Have you by chance compared the Crackatwoa to the Glenn OTL?  I have a Crackatwoa with a few choice cosmetic and performance mods (film caps, stepped attenuator) and some of the best compatible tubes out there.  To me, it sounds excellent with the ZMF lineup, just curious how large the gap is to something like the GOTL.  Unfortunately, the Crackatwoa just doesn't have that many followers, so it's difficult to know where it stacks up with what are considered TOTL tube amps from the likes of Glenn, Ampsandsound, Feliks, etc.  Wish there was a meet near me so I could bring it along and compare.

At one point, I did do a side-by-side of my old Crack + SB to the Feliks Audio Esspressivo with some great tubes in both, and it wasn't even close, the Crack blew it away at half the price.  It was at that point that I thought to myself "hmm, maybe it isn't worth upgrading much beyond the Crack if more money could potentially get me worse performance," so I built a sweet Crackatwoa instead.


----------



## attmci

L0rdGwyn said:


> Have you by chance compared the Crackatwoa to the Glenn OTL?  I have a Crackatwoa with a few choice cosmetic and performance mods (film caps, stepped attenuator) and some of the best compatible tubes out there.  To me, it sounds excellent with the ZMF lineup, just curious how large the gap is to something like the GOTL.  Unfortunately, the Crackatwoa just doesn't have that many followers, so it's difficult to know where it stacks up with what are considered TOTL tube amps from the likes of Glenn, Ampsandsound, Feliks, etc.  Wish there was a meet near me so I could bring it along and compare.
> 
> At one point, I did do a side-by-side of my old Crack + SB to the Feliks Audio Esspressivo with some great tubes in both, and it wasn't even close, the Crack blew it away at half the price.  It was at that point that I thought to myself "hmm, maybe it isn't worth upgrading much beyond the Crack if more money could potentially get me worse performance," so I built a sweet Crackatwoa instead.


You already have OTL, why not try something else?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

attmci said:


> You already have OTL, why not try something else?



I don't have the space for a large collection of amps!  Not to mention, tube collecting is quite the money hole, I tend to go all the way to the top as far as tube choice goes.  I've thought of building a Mainline or looking at another parafeed topology (the upcoming ECP T4 looks pretty interesting).  I mentioned Ampsandsound, have not heard many SET amps and don't know how they compare to a good OTL.  I have a Violectic V100, but it doesn't get much use, I prefer tubes.


----------



## adydula

Mainline.


----------



## NightFlight

Anyone see a review of a Mainline and Mojo comparison? A buddy and I are planning to compare the two. It's just a matter of finding the time.


----------



## itsikhefez

NightFlight said:


> Anyone see a review of a Mainline and Mojo comparison? A buddy and I are planning to compare the two. It's just a matter of finding the time.


I have them both right now side by side (although the Mojo is on the way out soon).
Isn't this like an apples to tofu comparison?
One is a tube amp with balanced outputs, second is a portable battery powered DAC and headphone amp.

Do you plan on strictly comparing the headphone sections of each?


----------



## NightFlight (Apr 3, 2019)

itsikhefez said:


> I have them both right now side by side (although the Mojo is on the way out soon).
> Isn't this like an apples to tofu comparison?
> One is a tube amp with balanced outputs, second is a portable battery powered DAC and headphone amp.
> 
> Do you plan on strictly comparing the headphone sections of each?



My bad, I meant the Schiit Mjolnir-2 vs the Mainline. I refer to it as the Mojo because I have to look up the spelling... every... single.... time.  Buddy has the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack and I have the Gungir/Mainline stack. 

I offered to swap for a week or so, but he'd rather compare side by side.


----------



## Tom-s

For anyone that likes vinyl with these amps, the Bottlehead Eros 2 is on sale!

https://bottlehead.com/product/eros2-phono-preamplifier-kit/

I see some similarities with tube rolling that keep me away from getting into vinyl at this point .


----------



## SmashBruh (May 2, 2019)

So, how worth it is the gold pin Electro Harmonix tube roll in the Mainline?  Would you say it's worth spending $100+ on a pair? Or should I just stick with the Reflektors? Also, how much of a hit on the mids would you say the swap makes? I love smooth mids but everyone calling the Mainline polite worries me just a touch and I wonder if tubes with a bigger frequency extension might be better?

Also, for those who have painted their transformer bells- are there any special considerations I should take with it?? I was thinking about gilding it, but worry that the size and sealing lacquer I'd need to use might melt if the transformer bell gets too hot...


----------



## NightFlight

SmashBruh said:


> So, how worth it is the gold pin Electro Harmonix tube roll in the Mainline?  Would you say it's worth spending $100+ on a pair? Or should I just stick with the Reflektors? Also, how much of a hit on the mids would you say the swap makes? I love smooth mids but everyone calling the Mainline polite worries me just a touch and I wonder if tubes with a bigger frequency extension might be better?
> 
> Also, for those who have painted their transformer bells- are there any special considerations I should take with it?? I was thinking about gilding it, but worry that the size and sealing lacquer I'd need to use might melt if the transformer bell gets too hot...



The tubes really don't have that much influence on the signature like other amps.


----------



## SmashBruh

NightFlight said:


> The tubes really don't have that much influence on the signature like other amps.


Does that include the 12AU7 tube as well? Does that mean I can pop in any cheapy 12AU7 and it'll perform equally?


----------



## cspirou

SmashBruh said:


> Does that include the 12AU7 tube as well? Does that mean I can pop in any cheapy 12AU7 and it'll perform equally?



The 12au7 especially. That's for the voltage regulator and not part of the signal path.


----------



## JamieMcC

Tom-s said:


> For anyone that likes vinyl with these amps, the Bottlehead Eros 2 is on sale!
> 
> https://bottlehead.com/product/eros2-phono-preamplifier-kit/
> 
> I see some similarities with tube rolling that keep me away from getting into vinyl at this point .




I use my Eros + Mainline + hd800 combo quiet regularly for listening to vinyl. I have a few choice upgraded parts in the Eros like matched Teflon capacitors in the RIAA stage. Duelund Cast copper PIO output caps strategically placed Kiwame resistors Telefunken ef86 silver/chrome plates tubes etc. Mainline has upgraded caps. 

In all honesty its an epic combo imho and best used in conjunction with very clean vinyl investing in or building a diy ultrasonic cleaner is a good idea as the results are fantastic.


----------



## Tom-s

Just a heads-up! The Bottlehead Stereomour II is on Sale this week! 245$ off! 

I know it's not a headphone amp as-is, but some folks are really happy with it as a headphone amp for LCD's.

Ordered one. I'll try to make some comparisons with the Crack, Mainline and S3X (with HD800's).


----------



## JamieMcC

Tom-s said:


> Just a heads-up! The Bottlehead Stereomour II is on Sale this week! 245$ off!
> 
> I know it's not a headphone amp as-is, but some folks are really happy with it as a headphone amp for LCD's.
> 
> Ordered one. I'll try to make some comparisons with the Crack, Mainline and S3X (with HD800's).



Look forward to hearing more about that your build


----------



## bagwell359

Just finished up with a crack/speedball on loan for 10 days with a Senn HD-600 (lightly modded).  

Summary: very nice, perhaps great for the $.  My comments will be vs the same Senn on a low cap XLR cable out of a Rag and the stock cable.

Plus:  Bass 20-35Hz well more then the Rag, and with good timbre, very quiet, wider soundstage, good centerfill with good depth, mids under 1kHz really special. 

Negative: upper mids up lacking detail; Rag can be somewhat bright, but even factoring for that, it's not the tube v transistor thing.  It's not usable with low impedance cans such as the HE-500 - but you knew that...

If I had a tight budget and a pair of HD-600's, then here you go...


----------



## omniweltall

bagwell359 said:


> Just finished up with a crack/speedball on loan for 10 days with a Senn HD-600 (lightly modded).
> 
> Summary: very nice, perhaps great for the $.  My comments will be vs the same Senn on a low cap XLR cable out of a Rag and the stock cable.
> 
> ...


Any comparison with other tube amps, bagwell? Or any other amps, other than Raggy? I can't remember how the Rag sounds.


----------



## bagwell359

omniweltall said:


> Any comparison with other tube amps, bagwell? Or any other amps, other than Raggy? I can't remember how the Rag sounds.



Pretty insulated these days - the HFM Jr amp running the 009 and Voce and these two are the only ones I've heard in 4 years... I don't count DAP's.


----------



## Tom-s

bagwell359 said:


> Just finished up with a crack/speedball on loan for 10 days with a Senn HD-600 (lightly modded).
> Negative: upper mids up lacking detail;



This part is largely influenced by the driver tube of choice. This happens with RCA tubes IME. Put in a Philips made tube or even better a Telefunken ECC82 and the lack of detail will be gone. 



JamieMcC said:


> Look forward to hearing more about that your build



Since the Stereomour II is coming, i had to get the most out of it. So i went searching for headphones that would pair perfectly with these DHT speaker amps. I found a beautiful mint condition AKG K1000's, still at their original owner. These are now singing beautifully, driven by S3X, with plenty off headroom.


----------



## bagwell359

Back when I was using a lot of tube preamps I'd be looking at NOS Phillips or Mullards for this application.

For my ARC SP-15 back in the day: the French Philips 6922 singing away

Tubes are like craft beer, or high end grape.... never ends


----------



## L0rdGwyn

In my experience, 6SN7s perform better in the Crack(atwoa) than 12AU7s, and more detail retrieval is available as you move up the 6SN7 ladder as well.

But I came to show off a photo, never thought to do a long exposure before.  There is something about that warm glow when you're listening to your favorite tunes 

Brimar 6SN7GT, MOV A1834, Telefunken EL90 in the Crackatwoa:


----------



## cspirou

L0rdGwyn said:


> In my experience, 6SN7s perform better in the Crack(atwoa) than 12AU7s, and more detail retrieval is available as you move up the 6SN7 ladder as well.
> 
> But I came to show off a photo, never thought to do a long exposure before.  There is something about that warm glow when you're listening to your favorite tunes
> 
> Brimar 6SN7GT, MOV A1834, Telefunken EL90 in the Crackatwoa:



What are you doing to use a 6SN7 with the crack? An adapter?


----------



## L0rdGwyn

cspirou said:


> What are you doing to use a 6SN7 with the crack? An adapter?



Yes, a 6SN7 to 12AU7 adapter, Garage1217 sells a good one.


----------



## SmashBruh

Hey everyone! I just got my mainline last night and after biasing it sounds great with my Auteurs; I did however notice that at max output with the switch set to High impedance I can hear some electrical noise (I can still hear it at max output on low impedence as well, though it's less); is this normal for a standard un-upgraded kit?? This is my first full-tube amp (though I've heard quite a few before!)


----------



## L0rdGwyn

SmashBruh said:


> Hey everyone! I just got my mainline last night and after biasing it sounds great with my Auteurs; I did however notice that at max output with the switch set to High impedance I can hear some electrical noise (I can still hear it at max output on low impedence as well, though it's less); is this normal for a standard un-upgraded kit?? This is my first full-tube amp (though I've heard quite a few before!)



If it is a 60Hz buzzing sound, could be a grounding issue/ground loop. Are your outlets well grounded? If it is more random, could be RFI or a noisy tube, although I don't know how common that is with the Mainline. Is it one or both channels? If it becomes a persistent problem, make a post on the BH forums.


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## itsikhefez

SmashBruh said:


> Hey everyone! I just got my mainline last night and after biasing it sounds great with my Auteurs; I did however notice that at max output with the switch set to High impedance I can hear some electrical noise (I can still hear it at max output on low impedence as well, though it's less); is this normal for a standard un-upgraded kit?? This is my first full-tube amp (though I've heard quite a few before!)



I've had buzzing before which was due to a dimmer switch and CFL bulbs. I swapped out the bulbs and the buzzing was gone


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## SmashBruh (May 14, 2019)

L0rdGwyn said:


> If it is a 60Hz buzzing sound, could be a grounding issue/ground loop. Are your outlets well grounded? If it is more random, could be RFI or a noisy tube, although I don't know how common that is with the Mainline. Is it one or both channels? If it becomes a persistent problem, make a post on the BH forums.


I'm fairly certain it's not a ground loop. The noise seems to only happen when my Modi 3 is connected to both my amp and a source (I've tried connecting it to both my monitors and my PC via USB as well as connecting it to my PC via SPDIF.) I'm like 90% certain this is an issue with my Modi since the amp is completely silent when connected to my phone via a RCA->3.5mm cable however I do find it odd that I didn't have this issue when it was paired with my MCTH...


That said, I don't hear the noise unless the volume is set between 0- -15db or so, so I've been enjoying the Auteurs with the Mainline. The mainline really is special quite special! The separation to instruments and stage it presents are truly fantastic. I find the treble really way too smooth though... I like it when the treble tickles my brain a little bit you know? Hahaha. Hoping the treble presentation grows on me like the Atticus's did!


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## cspirou

SmashBruh said:


> I'm fairly certain it's not a ground loop. The noise seems to only happen when my Modi 3 is connected to both my amp and a source (I've tried connecting it to both my monitors and my PC via USB as well as connecting it to my PC via SPDIF.) I'm like 90% certain this is an issue with my Modi since the amp is completely silent when connected to my phone via a RCA->3.5mm cable however I do find it odd that I didn't have this issue when it was paired with my MCTH...
> 
> 
> That said, I don't hear the noise unless the volume is set between 0- -15db or so, so I've been enjoying the Auteurs with the Mainline. The mainline really is special quite special! The separation to instruments and stage it presents are truly fantastic. I find the treble really way too smooth though... I like it when the treble tickles my brain a little bit you know? Hahaha. Hoping the treble presentation grows on me like the Atticus's did!



I don't think you know what a ground loop is. Your phone is battery powered and would not have a ground loop. However with computer -> DAC -> Amp, you could have a ground loop.


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## SilverEars (May 14, 2019)

Here's my opinion on the Mainline vs Crack.  Get the crack, forget about the Mainline, and save the money (you have to use 300 ohm+ headphones though). Mainline is overpriced for performance.  For that kind of performance, I'd go shoot for a good solid-state instead.  It's a tube amp fails at trying to be a good solide-state which kinda defeats being a tube amp.

After listening to Crack with speedball, you'd think Mainline would be a refined Crack.  Nope.  It's just a different sounding tube amp that happens to be very expensive.

Compared to Crack, you lose the high separation and the interesting imaging.  Mainline sounds a bit smeared in definition and has the that caveat of tube sound that compares badly to a good solid-state.

Mainline just proves a point that just because one amp sound good doesn't mean their higher-end is worth the upgrade, or should you expect to be.  Somehow Crack happens to be a good sounding amp.  Luck maybe?


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## SmashBruh (May 14, 2019)

cspirou said:


> I don't think you know what a ground loop is. Your phone is battery powered and would not have a ground loop. However with computer -> DAC -> Amp, you could have a ground loop.




It doesn't sound like what a ground loop typically sounds like though (it sounds like an electrical static buzzing hum with some midrange beeps that constantly go off at regular intervals), and wouldn't a ground loop be solved by having both the computer and amp be connected to the same ground? Also, again, why would I get a ground loop now with the mainline and not with the CTH?? And why would it happen across the USB ports of three different devices?


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## itsikhefez

SilverEars said:


> Here's my opinion on the Mainline vs Crack.  Get the crack, forget about the Mainline, and save the money (you have to use 300 ohm+ headphones though). Mainline is overpriced for performance.  For that kind of performance, I'd go shoot for a good solid-state instead.  It's a tube amp fails at trying to be a good solide-state which kinda defeats being a tube amp.
> 
> After listening to Crack with speedball, you'd think Mainline would be a refined Crack.  Nope.  It's just a different sounding tube amp that happens to be very expensive.
> 
> ...



I went straight to the Mainline which I think is great... but haven't compared to a Crack so maybe I'm missing out?? (Especially since I mainly use a ZMF Aeolus and HD650)

FWIW beforehand I read extensive opinions and the majority reviewed the Mainline as a worthwhile upgrade.
Which headphones have you compared with?


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## SilverEars (May 14, 2019)

itsikhefez said:


> I went straight to the Mainline which I think is great... but haven't compared to a Crack so maybe I'm missing out?? (Especially since I mainly use a ZMF Aeolus and HD650)
> 
> FWIW beforehand I read extensive opinions and the majority reviewed the Mainline as a worthwhile upgrade.
> Which headphones have you compared with?


Well, for low-impedance headphones, Mainline is the only option between the two, but for 300 ohm + headphones such as the Sennheisers, I think that Crack just stands on it's own in terms of good interesting OTL sound.  Please don't think OTL means inferior sound.  I had thought that, and it isn't the case, it's just isn't compatable with lots of headphones due to the high output impedance. 

I think Crack was the first tube amp I felt worthwhile being a tube amp as it's so engaging with the Sennheiser HD6 series.  Mainline just isn't the same experience.

If you get a chance, give it a listen.  There's a reason why Crack is so famous.  It's a fast sounding with good imaging for HD6 series Sennheisers.

If you are going for a budget tube, I'd recommend Crack as the best introduction.


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## itsikhefez

SilverEars said:


> Well, for low-impedance headphones, Mainline is the only option between the two, but for 300 ohm + headphones such as the Sennheisers, I think that Crack just stands on it's own in terms of good interesting OTL sound.
> 
> I think Crack was the first tube amp I felt worthwhile being a tube amp as it's so engaging with the Sennheiser HD6 series.  Mainline just isn't the same experience.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the insight. I know inside that at some point I'll have to build it even though my amp collection is growing and its really unnecessary.
I have an Elekit TU-8600 300B tube amp kit coming in tomorrow. This is intended for a speaker system but it should be great with headphones as well... it will be a good comparison to the Mainline in terms of "tube sound"


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## SilverEars

itsikhefez said:


> Thanks for the insight. I know inside that at some point I'll have to build it even though my amp collection is growing and its really unnecessary.
> I have an Elekit TU-8600 300B tube amp kit coming in tomorrow. This is intended for a speaker system but it should be great with headphones as well... it will be a good comparison to the Mainline in terms of "tube sound"


That's a high powered one?  Would be interesting to try planars with it.  Curious if it powers HE-6 well enough.


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## itsikhefez

SilverEars said:


> That's a high powered one?  Would be interesting to try planars with it.  Curious if it powers HE-6 well enough.



Yes, as a 300B SET amp it outputs 8W.. not sure how much goes to the headphone output but I believe it should be very powerful


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## JamieMcC

SilverEars said:


> Here's my opinion on the Mainline vs Crack.  Get the crack, forget about the Mainline, and save the money (you have to use 300 ohm+ headphones though). Mainline is overpriced for performance.  For that kind of performance, I'd go shoot for a good solid-state instead.  It's a tube amp fails at trying to be a good solide-state which kinda defeats being a tube amp.
> 
> After listening to Crack with speedball, you'd think Mainline would be a refined Crack.  Nope.  It's just a different sounding tube amp that happens to be very expensive.
> 
> ...



Was the Crack modified in any way what tubes were you using?


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## SilverEars (May 15, 2019)

JamieMcC said:


> Was the Crack modified in any way what tubes were you using?


No modification.  I actually tried two Cracks (both stock) with Speedball and liked the non-warm and lush, with strong bass of HD6 series out of both of them.  I finished a Speedball build for somwbody, and discovered it was my kind of soubd out of the Sennheisers.  I immediately looked for a Crack of my own after hearing the Speedball.

I fed it Gumby.  I guess OTL works well with Gumby.  I tried out another amp that's transformer coupled, and it can sound a bit warm with the wrong DAC, was a bit sensitive and sounded more precise out of a dry DAC.  I don't like warm sounding, particularly with HD6XX.


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## JamieMcC

SilverEars said:


> No modification.  I actually tried two Cracks (both stock) with Speedball and liked the non-warm and lush, with strong bass of HD6 series out of both of them.  I finished a Speedball build for somwbody, and discovered it was my kind of soubd out of the Sennheisers.  I immediately looked for a Crack of my own after hearing the Speedball.
> 
> I fed it Gumby.  I guess OTL works well with Gumby.  I tried out another amp that's transformer coupled, and it can sound a bit warm with the wrong DAC, was a bit sensitive and sounded more precise out of a dry DAC.  I don't like warm sounding, particularly with HD6XX.



So you were using hd6xx with Mainline as well then?


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## SilverEars

JamieMcC said:


> So you were using hd6xx with Mainline as well then?


600/6XX


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## JamieMcC (May 17, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> 600/6XX



Try having a read through the reviews on the very first page of this thread by Loquah the thread creator and his comparisons of Crack, Sex and Mainline after. Having owned all three myself (still have Sex and Mainline) and also been able to compare side by side a stock Crack and maxed out hot rodded Crack premium tubes etc. I think Loquah assessment of the differences is pretty accurate.

I've owned the hd600 and hd650 in the past at a guess I would suggest both the Grumby and Mainline performance are being restricted by the ability of your cans.
The Mainline is capable of resolving details your not even going to know exist on the hd650 Crack combo and that's with you knowing they are there and listening for them.

Like I say have a look over Loquah's comparisons, the Crack hdxxx is a fantastic combo but to my mind the Sex and Mainline do seriously ratchet up the performance in comparison something that much more easily noticed with cans like the T1 and HD800. I think headfiers are pretty lucky at the moment there seems a real push from manufacturers upping their game and the level of performance from the more budget friendly end of the market is continuously improving snapping at the heels of more premium offerings.


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## attmci

HD-650 is a fine headphone which I still use to test new tubes. However, the cable comes with it is so cheap. I replaced it with a Silver Dragon (not very expensive).


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## NightFlight (May 21, 2019)

JamieMcC said:


> Try having a read through the reviews on the very first page of this thread by Loquah the thread creator and his comparisons of Crack, Sex and Mainline after. Having owned all three myself (still have Sex and Mainline) and also been able to compare side by side a stock Crack and maxed out hot rodded Crack premium tubes etc. I think Loquah assessment of the differences is pretty accurate.
> 
> I've owned the hd600 and hd650 in the past at a guess I would suggest both the Grumby and Mainline performance are being restricted by the ability of your cans.
> The Mainline is capable of resolving details your not even going to know exist on the hd650 Crack combo and that's with you knowing they are there and listening for them.
> ...



You can go further and say that the HD800 starts to fail at presenting air and realism of stringed instruments, etc when compared to a top tier electrostatics and the requisite chain to make them perform.  What it comes down to is, how much money do you want to drop for crazy realism, vs some simple fun. 

But I agree. The "don't waste your money on a Mainline" mantra is to be expected coming from a HD6xx only standpoint. Given I have the 600/650 and 800, I relegate the 600 to workhorse duty for movies and such. The 650 to nightstand duty (movies/music) and the HD800 for my main rig.  The 600 vs 800 series are totally different animals. Going back to the 650 from 800 in the same session is like loosing a good chunk of your perception. The 650's are great, but the 800's are that much better.


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## L0rdGwyn

Pretty sure I am the only person on HF actually rolling these tubes, but in case anyone is interested, attained the "end game" of shunt regulator tubes for the Crackatwoa, Telefunken 6005, took quite a while to find a pair.


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## Tom-s

Nice! If those are Tele's they must have a date code on the back starting with U. The ribbed plate 6AQ5W like yours (6005) were made in Ulm (38.270pcs, based on GE 6005). In the Berlin factory they made the smooth plate 6aq5/EL90's version (545.416pcs, more like RCA 6aq5's). I only have the Berlin made Tfk EL90's in my collection for now (and lots of RCA from all over the world and 6005 GE's that have the same internal construction like the ones you show above).

Could you provide some close-ups of the internals? Or compare them to GE 6005/6aq5w?


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## L0rdGwyn

Tom-s said:


> Nice! If those are Tele's they must have a date code on the back starting with U. The ribbed plate 6AQ5W like yours (6005) were made in Ulm (38.270pcs, based on GE 6005). In the Berlin factory they made the smooth plate 6aq5/EL90's version (545.416pcs, more like RCA 6aq5's). I only have the Berlin made Tfk EL90's in my collection for now (and lots of RCA from all over the world and 6005 GE's that have the same internal construction like the ones you show above).
> 
> Could you provide some close-ups of the internals? Or compare them to GE 6005/6aq5w?



Hey Tom - I'd be happy to!  I own the smooth plate, Berlin-made Telefunken EL90s as well.  Below are are some pics of the internals, as well as a pic of the GE 6005 internals.  The Ulm designation is not included in the date code, but is indicated on the box.  As far as how the internals compare to the GE's, you can see the getter is raised and parallel to the top mica, unlike the GE's.  This is not pictured, but on the GE's, the cylindrical plates are sectioned in two places, like two half circles meeting, whereas on the Tele's, is is a single sheet that meets in one place.  The plates of the Tele's also have a bit more luster.

   

Here is a GE 6005:


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## SmashBruh (May 29, 2019)

Since my ZMF pendant doesn't seem to be working out I'm thinking about upgrading the caps in my mainline. I didn't build the mainline myself and am a little nervous about swapping out the parts but I'm hoping it's relatively painless! (Any tips any of you may have would be greatly appreciated though.)

I do have a question in regards to what capacitors I should choose though-

First of all, is it necessary to put in a capacitor that fits exactly where the old Daytons were? I'm thinking about going with either the Auricap 18uf or a Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold Oil. The latter will never fit where the  old Daytons were, so I was wondering if it would be okay to just have them be suspended there? (Any tips on how best to suspend them would be helpful too!)

Also, is there any actual benefit to having a higher UF rated cap? The Auricap I'd get is 18 uf but the biggest permissable uf for the MSSGO that I've found was 15. Does that mean the Auricaps are a better choice? Or does it not matter and would a 10uf MSSGO sound just as good as its 15uf counterpart? (it's a $400 difference lmao)

Also, I'm having a tough time deciding between capacitors. I really love the stock tonality of the mainline. It sounds "right" and I really wish to keep that, however I wish the treble was a little more energetic and I also wish it slammed harder. Based off of that would you say the Mundorf is the better choice of capacitor or would either one do? (The auricaps are undoubtedly cheaper so I'd rather go for them, but I've been reading great things about the Mundorfs.)
Another question I have regarding the mundorfs- did those of you who switched to them ever feel you recovered the "sense of space" you lost after they burned in?? The imaging on my mainline is one of my favorite parts of it! Another worry I have is that if this is really only a marginal upgrade no matter what maybe going for something like the MSSGO might be wasting money?


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## itsikhefez

SmashBruh said:


> Since my ZMF pendant doesn't seem to be working out I'm thinking about upgrading the caps in my mainline. I didn't build the mainline myself and am a little nervous about swapping out the parts but I'm hoping it's relatively painless! (Any tips any of you may have would be greatly appreciated though.)
> 
> I do have a question in regards to what capacitors I should choose though-
> 
> ...



I can partially comment here, hopefully others will chime in as well (also, I'm by no means an expert so take with a grain of salt).
Those caps should be relatively easy to swap out, assuming you have some soldering experience. 
I would not recommend having the caps suspend there, as it would put mechanical stress on the leads and thats probably a bad thing in the long run.
I used the Auricap XO in mine and put a piece of double-sided tape mount them to the chassis. You could also use a wire routing hook with zip ties.

In terms of size, there is a minimum capacitance needed in a given circuit to avoid frequency roll off. I'm not sure what that is in the Mainline. Personally, I would probably use the stock value or slightly higher.

Regarding the cap type, I'm personally in constant question on this topic. On the one hand, there are alot of boutique ($$$) caps that are highly rated subjectively, but on the other hand most people with actual engineering experience brush it all off and say its snake oil. I also think that the differences people mention between caps is pretty exaggerated. 
As long as the materials and technology are the same (i.e, metallized polypropylene, film and foil, paper in oil), the differences are probably going to be subtle.


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## JamieMcC (May 29, 2019)

I would be mindful of the size of some of the capacitors especially if going above 10uf .

fwiw I had some 10uF 800Vdc Audyn Cap MKP Plus in my Mainline for a while and thought they sounded pretty good a plus is they are a nice fit and have decent size stiff solid lead outs which are a help with securing adding some sticky back Velcro makes doubly sure they will not move until you want them to.

Just keep a check on ebay for 10uf caps used as you might be surprised what turns up there was a load of the 10uf Mundorf supreme Silver gold oil last year for something like £20 each!


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## L0rdGwyn

Just wanted to comment Re the Telefunken 6005 I mentioned before - there is a noticeable improvement in clarity when going from the Telefunken EL90 (that I was using previously) to the Telefunken 6005 in the Crackatwoa.  Will do a comparison between the General Electric and Telefunken 6005 at some point soon.


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## L0rdGwyn

L0rdGwyn said:


> Just wanted to comment Re the Telefunken 6005 I mentioned before - there is a noticeable improvement in clarity when going from the Telefunken EL90 (that I was using previously) to the Telefunken 6005 in the Crackatwoa.  Will do a comparison between the General Electric and Telefunken 6005 at some point soon.



And by soon, I meant right now.  WOW, definitely the best clarity, space, and bass definition I have heard via shunt regulator tubes.  After doing an A-B, bests the General Electric 6005 easily.  Listening with a Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plate input, MOV A1834 output.


----------



## SmashBruh

itsikhefez said:


> I can partially comment here, hopefully others will chime in as well (also, I'm by no means an expert so take with a grain of salt).
> Those caps should be relatively easy to swap out, assuming you have some soldering experience.
> I would not recommend having the caps suspend there, as it would put mechanical stress on the leads and thats probably a bad thing in the long run.
> I used the Auricap XO in mine and put a piece of double-sided tape mount them to the chassis. You could also use a wire routing hook with zip ties.
> ...



I don't really have any soldering experience and that does make me a little nervous, but the capacitors aren't on the board, so I figure I can't cause too much damage, right?

I think the Mainline can take between 10uf-20uf with a minimum of 200V; but I've been having a hard time determining whether a higher UF is beneficial or if it would be fine to stick to 10UF which comes stock on the Mainline. Some people say it increases the base response (which I would like) however Loquah reported not much change in base response when upgrading to 18uf.

And that's good to hear about Capacitors sounding more similar than different!


----------



## itsikhefez

SmashBruh said:


> I don't really have any soldering experience and that does make me a little nervous, but the capacitors aren't on the board, so I figure I can't cause too much damage, right?
> 
> I think the Mainline can take between 10uf-20uf with a minimum of 200V; but I've been having a hard time determining whether a higher UF is beneficial or if it would be fine to stick to 10UF which comes stock on the Mainline. Some people say it increases the base response (which I would like) however Loquah reported not much change in base response when upgrading to 18uf.
> 
> And that's good to hear about Capacitors sounding more similar than different!



I built the Mainline a while back so forgot which value I used... it was a 10uf 400V Auricap XO.
Due to the point-to-point construction of the Mainline there is less risk of ruining something when you swap that part out. Only thing to consider is that there are other leads going to the same terminal block as the cap, so make sure to be careful around those.

Do you have a soldering iron ? A DMM can also help to measure the voltage there after the change (not a must though)
I buy caps from pcX as they often have 25% off their entire stock which makes the prices more reasonable.


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## SmashBruh

JamieMcC said:


> I would be mindful of the size of some of the capacitors especially if going above 10uf .
> 
> fwiw I had some 10uF 800Vdc Audyn Cap MKP Plus in my Mainline for a while and thought they sounded pretty good a plus is they are a nice fit and have decent size stiff solid lead outs which are a help with securing adding some sticky back Velcro makes doubly sure they will not move until you want them to.
> 
> Just keep a check on ebay for 10uf caps used as you might be surprised what turns up there was a load of the 10uf Mundorf supreme Silver gold oil last year for something like £20 each!


Good call! I ended up buying some 10uf MSSGO caps on ebay just now for less than half price! 



itsikhefez said:


> I built the Mainline a while back so forgot which value I used... it was a 10uf 400V Auricap XO.
> Due to the point-to-point construction of the Mainline there is less risk of ruining something when you swap that part out. Only thing to consider is that there are other leads going to the same terminal block as the cap, so make sure to be careful around those.
> 
> Do you have a soldering iron ? A DMM can also help to measure the voltage there after the change (not a must though)
> I buy caps from pcX as they often have 25% off their entire stock which makes the prices more reasonable.



I have a DMM and I have a soldering iron coming along with some Cardas silver solder. It doesn't seem like much else is soldered to the points where the Daytons are, only a wire on each end. Which I guess begs the question- once I remove the solder from the points will I be able to resolder the same wire back to the same point with the new caps, or will I need to replace all the wire that's desoldered??


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## SmashBruh (Jun 1, 2019)

Just put in the 10UF Mundorf SSGOs in. They only juuuust fit in my mainline where the old capacitors were. I've only had a few minutes with them but I do notice that they seem to be anywhere between 6-9 db less loud than the Daytons for some reason? Is that normal? I kind of expected them to be louder since they have such a higher VDC rating. Overall I find them to be more like the Daytons than they are different tbh. They excel at imaging just like the daytons and everything seems to still be very neutral. They also seem to be a good amount more detailed as well. I think they might also be a liiiittle more musical but that's sort of a hard thing to quantify.

I'm a little disappointed. I mean, they sound great, but so did the original Daytons. They failed in giving the amp more slam like I wanted; but I will say that the treble at least definitely has more energy now! 

Edit: Just found out the capacitors only had 10 hours of use into them... Looks like they do need to be broken in!


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## JamieMcC

Caps never sound partially good straight after they have been soldered in give it a couple of weeks and then stick the Daytons back in again you might be surprised. 

Going back the other way the difference always seems more easily discernible.


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## Tom-s

While i'm fully aware it's not a standard BH headphone amp, i'm building my Stereomour II to serve that purpose mostly.
I got it in two days ago and plan to build it this weekend.
Here's a small build log. Just to show how easy it is to DIY a BH amp.

First step. Painting the plate and bell end.
Needed: Cleaner ( i use 1€ brake cleaner), sand paper, primer, paint and patience.
I first sand all surfaces, then clean after each time sanding and before every layer, sand again, clean again etc. First layer of primer, sand again, second layer, sand again, paint in 3-4 very thin coats. Allow sufficient time between steps.
This process took me one night. (the paint will now cure for 24-48 hours)

Tonight i'll do the same for the chokes and build the wooden base.

Before (note, the amount of grease on the bell end)




Primer (first layer)




Paint (done)


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## itsikhefez (Jul 12, 2019)

Nice paint job! I had the Mainline and I didn't do too much cleaning on the plate. I really regretted it later because it would get dirty easily and was hard to get looking clean.

Good luck on your build.... 2A3 should be a wonderful headphone amp.
One issue you may have is hum. I am also building a Single-ended triode amp with 45 tubes for headphones.
The amp is built usually for speakers where users typically report that the amp is dead silent, but I have some hum with HD650 that I'm trying to work out.
Since the Stereomour is generally intended for speakers, once HP's in the 32-300 range are connected to the output-transformer, the reflected load on the 2A3 will be much higher (i.e. less hard to drive).
Whether that is an issue doesn't seem to be clear cut. To my understanding, generally as you put a lighter load on the tube, you lose power but distortion is also better. Losing power in this case is not a problem because there is still much more than needed for HP's.
Some say distortion decreases only to a certain point, and that there may also be frequency roll-off.
Either way, putting a 12ohm resistor across the output will put the ideal load on the 2A3, and you won't notice the loss of power because 3-4W is much more than anyone would need for headphones.

Perhaps you already know all this... just putting it here in case it turns out to be helpful.


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## Tom-s

Small write up.

Friday i finished the chokes with the same procedure as the top plate (only black paint) and i glued the wood base. 
On saturday it was moving day (finally out of the student dorm (15m2) and into a house!), so no amplifiers were build.






Yesterday morning i could finally start the build. All paint had dried by then. But i've left the wood unfinished as it wouldn't have been dry by yesterday. 
With the whole amplifier painted in honors of the AKG K1000 headphone, the wood will be finished ebony just like the AKG K1000 holtzbox. 






First step was to connect everything to the top plate, without damaging the paintwork. For this reason, i work on a towel when the amp is upside down. 






Next here's a picture of the heater wiring (always comes in an amp first) and ground path (oh, and a bit of the input).







On the input i've made my first change from the normal SII. I wired the input for a standard volume control. I've included a closeup picture if anyone is planning on the same in the future. I hope it shows the wiring scheme in a clear manner. 






Next to the input it was time to wire the driver stage. With the CCS board as most important step. Like with all my amps, the only change i made was the R1 resistor (higher quality; Dale). Another resistor that is very important in this stage is the cathode resistor. But BH already uses a high quality Dale resistor to serve this purpose. 






After that it was just the output stage needed to be wired (forgot to take pictures).

All resistances and voltages checked out so i've been pumping up the jams via speakers last night.
It has a very spatial sound with the Heresy III's. With a lot of details. It's like listening to headphones that are speakers.
Anyway, that was what i build it for, for the K1000 earspeakers. 






With the 1-day building manner, i lost track of time and other stuff around me (and forgot to take more pictures (Don't mind the beers ^^)). 
In total, it took me +-12 hours to get it done. 

For now, no upgrades were installed. The Shunt Regulator upgrade will follow the next coming weeks. Although i'm kind of scared to install it, as it will make me buy a Crack-a-two... 
After a few months i'll review it for headphone use.


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## Tom-s

The Stereomour II with headphones?

For headphones with an AC filament supply (on the 2A3's) you need some very quiet 2a3's with most headphones.
My SII was build for the AKG K1000's headphones and for now it's performing very good with these (no DC filament needed).
It is absolutely 100% silent with them, no hum, no nothing (104db/w/m). So the DC supply will be left out for now (same with AKG K340's). 
The EML 2A3 solid/mesh are supposed to be very quiet tubes, these can be tried with more sensitive headphones in an AC filament SII (starts hammering the piggy bank).

The K1K's are very very transparant headphones with a gorgeous soundstage! 
Some find them lacking in bass, but even with the driver angle's as wide as possible, i'm enjoying them with the SII.
The sound is rich, warm, full, and yet unbelievably detailed. This combination bests even the HD800/Mainline, loving it.

How about upgrades?

The SII has the biggest advantage over Stereomour I, in that it was designed to incorporate new BH upgrades and making the essential caps more accessible.
The first and foremost Shunt Regulator upgrade is a big upgrade with this amp!! C2A calling..
The DC filament supply and Mourquiet (a shunt / series stepped attenuator) are the other official upgrades (and i have no plan to install these for now).
Capacitors to upgrade: interstage coupling cap, outputstage/parafeed coupling cap, cathode bypass cap (2A3) and the PS caps. 
Resistors to upgrade: attenuator (Mourquiet), cathode resistor (driver stage, output stage) and CCS current setting (R1) resistor. 

The most important capacitor is the interstage coupling cap and i soon replaced the stock with K40y-9 Ruskie's. 
The soundstage sized up, details came out but the tonal balance is not my preference. There's a loosening of the bass, with an unnatural tone to piano/strings from time to time.
I'll leave these in for now to give them time to set-in a bit and change them with Mundorf Silver Oil somewhere in the next coming weeks.
In the PS the last 100uf cap before the 2a3 parafeed choke was replaced with 470uf because i had the room for it, with little effect (beware the DC filament supply won't fit any longer). 
For the output stage some Jupiter parafeed caps are planned. Can't wait to install these. 
For the bypass cap on the 2a3 cathode (conveniently located at the front of the amp), four leftover MBGO's from the Crack will be used (if i can get them to fit, another reason Mourquiet wasn't installed). This can only be done after my coupling cap journey is complete.






Tube rolling is a very worthwhile activity with this amp. Driver tubes are readily available and cheap to try with a good influence on the sonic character of the amp.
The supplied Sylvania's were changed with Philips ECC81 (1957 TK1's D foil getter), Telefunken ECC81's and GEC A2900's. 
All three lived up to the expectation to be an upgrade from stock. The GEC's and Philipses were magical with both headphones and speakers.
The Tele's (unexpected) were less preferred with the speakers / room because voices were placed so far back, they sounded muddled.

I can definitely see the SII as an astonishing amp for most headphones (DC filament required). 

On the Bottlehead forum you can read all about @Deke609 's adventures with the SII and Audeze LCD 4's.


----------



## cobyatch

Has anyone encountered a tube that produces a really loud static noise when the volume pot is turned all the way down? Currently having this problem with my RCA 6F8G, does not happen with any of my other 6F8G's using the same adapter or with my 12AU7's. Sucks because it's probably my favorite sounding tube right now with the Crack, but have been rarely using it out of safety for my ears and headphones lol.


----------



## cddc (Jul 25, 2019)

haven't tried 6F8G myself yet, but I heard 6F8G is noisier than 12AU7 and prone to radio interference from wi-fi router, PC, or cellphone, etc.

if i cannot hear static at normal volume, i normally do not mind the static at volume 0,

try to clean the pins on your 6F8G or move your amp away from wifi router to see if it helps.


----------



## cddc

btw, i think static or microphony is okay, but arcing could be dangerous


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## cobyatch (Jul 25, 2019)

Yup I agree that the 6F8G is definitely more microphonic than my other tubes, however this is much different from the common tube quirks. This is like a really loud 150Hz buzz being played at 80% volume. The first time it happened I thought something had shorted within the amp and was genuinely concerned I had damaged my headphones (and ears) lol. Only happens with the RCA 6F8G with the volume knob is turned down fully, and as soon as I turn it up a little bit the noise is radio silent and music quietly starts to come through.

Will try cleaning the pins again with some isopropyl alcohol, only gave them a quick brushdown when I first got the tube but that could definitely be the problem. FWIW, I did replace the volume pot with a stepped attenuator from eBay, but didn't think it'd be the problem since I don't experience the same thing with the other tubes.

Edit: Very interesting development, cleaning the leads didn't help remove the problem, but now noticed that it only happens with my 1/4" to XLR adapter made from the original HD800 cable. I reterminated both my HD6XX and HD800 by adding XLR males and females to the cables. I get the buzzing sound to play through both headphones using the HD800 1/4" to XLR adapter but not with the one I made from the HD6XX cable. Will double check my soldering job, but really weird that this problem only happens with this tube and adapter.


----------



## cddc

from what i read one more thing you can check is the grounding problem, which can also lead to static.

if you are using a power cord extension, make sure it is grounded. you can try to plug directly into a power outlet instead of using extension or change to another power outlet which you think would possibly have better grounding, and see if the static would go away.


----------



## cddc

from your new development i would now guess it's the joint problem or grounding problem.

check grounding first, since it's easier.


----------



## bagwell359

itsikhefez said:


> I can partially comment here, hopefully others will chime in as well (also, I'm by no means an expert so take with a grain of salt).
> Those caps should be relatively easy to swap out, assuming you have some soldering experience.
> I would not recommend having the caps suspend there, as it would put mechanical stress on the leads and thats probably a bad thing in the long run.
> I used the Auricap XO in mine and put a piece of double-sided tape mount them to the chassis. You could also use a wire routing hook with zip ties.
> ...



Resistors don't make any real difference.  Transistors and caps do for sure.  Transistors for instance in a 25 year old tuner when there have been newer versions brought to market.  Caps.  Firstly every power input cap should have a high pass filter.   In non critical areas of the circuit, if the unit is over 20 years consider replacement to avoid leaking at about 27+, but don't spend big.  However in the audio paths, if you can fit something bigger and better do it.  If you don't understand the circuit, pause until you do.

In speakers it inductors and caps.


----------



## itsikhefez

bagwell359 said:


> Resistors don't make any real difference.  Transistors and caps do for sure.  Transistors for instance in a 25 year old tuner when there have been newer versions brought to market.  Caps.  Firstly every power input cap should have a high pass filter.   In non critical areas of the circuit, if the unit is over 20 years consider replacement to avoid leaking at about 27+, but don't spend big.  However in the audio paths, if you can fit something bigger and better do it.  If you don't understand the circuit, pause until you do.
> 
> In speakers it inductors and caps.



I'm not sure why you quoted my post but I didn't write anything about resistors.


----------



## bagwell359

itsikhefez said:


> I'm not sure why you quoted my post but I didn't write anything about resistors.



That's the way* the site *grabbed the text, sorry for any confusion.


----------



## bagwell359

SilverEars said:


> Well, for low-impedance headphones, Mainline is the only option between the two, but for 300 ohm + headphones such as the Sennheisers, I think that Crack just stands on it's own in terms of good interesting OTL sound.  Please don't think OTL means inferior sound.  I had thought that, and it isn't the case, it's just isn't compatable with lots of headphones due to the high output impedance.
> 
> I think Crack was the first tube amp I felt worthwhile being a tube amp as it's so engaging with the Sennheiser HD6 series.  Mainline just isn't the same experience.
> 
> ...



I agree with SilverEars - and I had access to both of his BH's.  The only advantage of the mainline is that it could drive my HEX v2 (very nice under 500 Hz), but my HD-600 sounded clearly better on the Crack than the mainline.


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## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2019)

bagwell359 said:


> I agree with SilverEars - and I had access to both of his BH's.  The only advantage of the mainline is that it could drive my HEX v2 (very nice under 500 Hz), but my HD-600 sounded clearly better on the Crack than the mainline.


Yeah, I think the so called 'improved' technicalities are questionable, and the main real improment is compatability with wide range of headphones.  But, there is also SEX as well, which sounds closer to Crack which is compatable with other headphones like Mainline, and with much greater output power output, and both Crack and SEX are significantly lower priced.


----------



## SmashBruh

bagwell359 said:


> I agree with SilverEars - and I had access to both of his BH's.  The only advantage of the mainline is that it could drive my HEX v2 (very nice under 500 Hz), but my HD-600 sounded clearly better on the Crack than the mainline.


Are you guys sure it's not the HD600 bottlenecking the mainline? That set definitely has some great synergy with the Crack, but to say that the BHC+S is on the same level as the mainline seems a little silly if you're only using a mid-fi headphone to compare them...


----------



## bagwell359

SmashBruh said:


> Are you guys sure it's not the HD600 bottlenecking the mainline? That set definitely has some great synergy with the Crack, but to say that the BHC+S is on the same level as the mainline seems a little silly if you're only using a mid-fi headphone to compare them...



HD-600 might be mid-fi in terms of price but it is remarkable in terms of capturing instrument timbre.  In particular it handles piano from top to bottom that I haven't heard any can under $1k do. 

Also a number of posters have noted the affinity of the crack with the 600.  

I have a Ragnarok 1 that gets less out of the 600 than the crack


----------



## SmashBruh

bagwell359 said:


> HD-600 might be mid-fi in terms of price but it is remarkable in terms of capturing instrument timbre.  In particular it handles piano from top to bottom that I haven't heard any can under $1k do.
> 
> Also a number of posters have noted the affinity of the crack with the 600.
> 
> I have a Ragnarok 1 that gets less out of the 600 than the crack


Like I said, the HD600 is a FANTASTIC headphone. It and the HD650 can't be beat in terms of price vs performance however it's technicalities aren't up to snuff when compared with say the ZMF Auteur/Verite or the Focal Clear/Utopia all of which play fantastically on the Mainline. That said; the wonderful synergy between the BHC+S and the HD600/650 really can't be overstated!


----------



## ohcrapgorillas

I put in an order for the Eros 2 while the discount was still going on. Good timing, I got three paychecks this month instead of two. I'll be upgrading from a Hagerman Bugle2 which was no slouch and is very transparent, but I love tubes too much for my endgame phono pre to be solid state and powered by a switcher. Table is a Rega 3 but once Schiit works out the kinks in their Sol table, I'm selling it and upgrading. I've also built a Bottlehead Crack and modded the hell out of the thing, and I love it. Super excited to get the kit and have my second piece of Bottlehead gear. Definitely getting some Teflon caps for the Eros, but will listen to it stock first. Also going to be anodizing the top plate black, if anyone has suggestions on how to do that as cheaply as possible,l me know.


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## adydula

The HD 600's are bottlenecking the Crack IMO....

I have a crack and a mainline...and use other high end cans and the 600's with the crack is just great and I think its better with the crack than the mainline!! 
:>)

or my brain tells me this is the sound I prefer (at least for today!)..

That said I just got a set of Focal Clears and they are fantasic on the mainline...and just a bit better than the crack with the 600s....

Alex


----------



## JamieMcC

ohcrapgorillas said:


> I put in an order for the Eros 2 while the discount was still going on. Good timing, I got three paychecks this month instead of two. I'll be upgrading from a Hagerman Bugle2 which was no slouch and is very transparent, but I love tubes too much for my endgame phono pre to be solid state and powered by a switcher. Table is a Rega 3 but once Schiit works out the kinks in their Sol table, I'm selling it and upgrading. I've also built a Bottlehead Crack and modded the hell out of the thing, and I love it. Super excited to get the kit and have my second piece of Bottlehead gear. Definitely getting some Teflon caps for the Eros, but will listen to it stock first. Also going to be anodizing the top plate black, if anyone has suggestions on how to do that as cheaply as possible,l me know.



Congrats on the Eros its a super bit of kit. 

Take your time and enjoy the build.


----------



## tvr2500m

Quick request for comment. Right now Bottlehead is having a sale on just about everything. I made a deep commitment to high impedance headphones by buying and building a Crack. The whole experience has been great fun. I bought another Crack during another sale to play with with selected mods/upgrades. Haven't built this one quite yet. I just finally got all the parts in, so that will likely happen soon.

As a related aside, not being able to set up a proper two-channel audio thing, I've now deep-dived into the headphone world. It's been fun. I still have a perfect pair of Sennheiser HD-580 Precision headphones I bought a long while ago. Never liked them; too treacly. But today probing further the reputation of this headphone family, I picked up a set of Drop x Senn HD-6XX (as has everyone else). Okay, nice enough. Pleasant. This probing took the turn towards pairing them with tubes. Fun! Not perfect (whatever that might even mean), but as a whole the experience has been just nifty. The sound. The approach. The ethos. It all comes together nicely. I'm on board.

Which leads me to...

I would like to explore Bottlehead gear with my other headphones - Focal Elex, Hifiman Edition XX and HE-400i. I'm not keen on the jump all the way to the Mainline. Over the last several years, I've been trying to simplify (getting away from the days of large speakers, monoblock tube amplifiers, multi-part digital rigs, etc.) and de-cost (really good audio today is more affordable than ever). SO, I'm thinking about a SEX as the solution to get some very good tubed amplification that can be used across a broad range of headphones. I've read the reviews. They point to that SEX could a nice solution.

What say you?

Thanks!


----------



## ProfFalkin

tvr2500m said:


> What say you?



I say... Alfalfa. 

And yes, the SEX is a good way to go.  Don't be surprised that it's not as "tube-ish" sounding as the Crack.  Tube hybrid amps can be another good solution - the Cavalli MCTH, Liquid Platinum, Lyr 3, etc.   Also, you can try little kits like this, if you like to tinker.


----------



## baseonmars

tvr2500m said:


> What say you?


The SEX with C4S gave me the tube bug. Made the AFC come to life for me. Sounds amazing with HD800S, TH-610 and even X2. I don’t think it didn’t anything with LCD-3F, surprisingly that sounds better out of my solid state BHA-1.

Sounded good stock but really needed the C4S to handle the full range of my library properly - bass heavy electro sounded slack and muddy without it.

Few build pics here - the paint job caused me the biggest headache, the build took a weekend with plenty of breaks: https://www.instagram.com/p/B0ta5KYJmVR/?igshid=18b0ukgmrah8i


----------



## tvr2500m

Okay, I've gone and bought a S.E.X + C4S - and a little Bottlehead badge.


----------



## JamieMcC

Good decision Sex is a nice amp still have mine 5 years on.


----------



## Tom-s

For those interested in a Mainline, it's updated with universal power transformer and on sale now!

Here's a link to my experience with Bottlehead:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bottlehead.920594/


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## larcenasb (Mar 1, 2021)

To start the new year, I visited the new Bottleheadquarters (an hour drive) for a listening test(!)—to compare their four headphone amps, and to see what changes each would make to my setup.

Upon arriving, I was warmly greeted by Eileen as we waited for Dan. They both have a very radiant and friendly disposition that made me feel at ease and welcome. I brought them Jones sodas, iced teas, and a variety of donut bites as any decent guest would. Then Dan took me upstairs to the listening room. Before I arrived though, he had carried up all the amps and set them up on one folding table (thanks so much again, Dan, for taking the time and effort to do that), and used a custom RCA splitter box so that all I had to do was plug my headphones into the amp I wanted to listen through.


 

For the test, I compared my modded-out Crack (with my prized RCA tubes) against each of the other stock amps (with stock tubes)—S.E.X., Crackatwoa, and Mainline. Then I compared my modded-out Crack vs the Crackatwoa (with both using my RCA tubes). Dan didn’t have a stock Crack on hand, but I’m very familiar with how it compares to my modded-out Crack since I’ve had 3 Cracks since 2010 (stock is basically warmer, mushier, and less dynamic…but overall quite pleasant).

My personal setup for the last 4 years is: PC -> AudioQuest DragonFly 1.0 -> DIY Canare RCA IC -> fully-modded Bottlehead Crack + Speedball w/ RCA 6AS7G & 6F8G -> AKG K240 Sextett MP



It took me a lot of time to find my synergistically ideal sound. I prioritize *spaciousness*, *midrange presence*, *body to vocals*, and a *lifelike bite* to crescendos while also not being harsh. This combination transports me to the venues and studios of my favorite musicians, while also riling me up and making me jittery when they deliver their art with aplomb. And _every single piece_ in this chain is crucial to take me there. For example, when I “upgraded” my DragonFly to the newer DragonFly Red, I noticed resolution was increased but the spaciousness closed in on me and I no longer felt transported. When I “upgraded” to Beyer DT 1990 headphones, the mids were scooped out and there was no longer the presence and bite to rile me up. When I “upgraded” to the Tung-Sol RP 6SN7GT, yes, the overall sound was purely refined, but the clear bite of the RCA grey-glass was now dulled and, again, this failed to rile me up. So, for what _I like_, my setup is the best I’ve matched together so far. In the end, my impressions will be a little unusual as I won’t base them off bass, mid, treble, imaging, and soundstage as reviews normally do. I’m just looking for the specific qualities that make this hobby worthwhile for me, and I hope it’ll help you out or at least be interesting to read.

So, specifically, I will now see if any of these Bottlehead amps will either add to, subtract from, or leave unchanged any of my preferred sound characteristics I mentioned (as well as more general impressions). Nothing else will change in the audio chain besides the amp.

First, I wanted Dan to listen to my setup and see if he experiences the traits I loved about it. I played Hello by Adele (vinyl) and he volume-matched each of the amps. He plugged my K240 back and forth between all the amps and listened critically. I waited in suspense to hear what he had to say, and his first words were… “There’s distortion in the treble. I blame it on the RCA input [tube].” Haha, my heart sank a bit but then I confided in myself that perhaps I just like how the treble sort of nears the threshold of being controlled, giving the impression of the singer putting in so much passion that it’s hard to contain. Despite the AKG K240 Sextetts being from the late 70s, he remarked how the midrange presence is there but how it is scooped out a bit vs his Sennheiser HD6XX. I was surprised by that but didn’t get a chance to listen to the Senns myself. He explained how the highs were less prominent with the HD6XX and how I might just think they’re dull compared to my AKGs haha. For context, he said his preferred sound is “anything that doesn’t fatigue me.” So, while I don’t aim for listener’s fatigue, we do have different tastes. It was really funny after he listened, he said regrettingly that now he may have ruined this all for me by not saying what I would have liked to hear. But he ended with “What I hear doesn’t matter. Of course, it’s all about how it sounds to you.” And with that, I started my listening tests.

I plugged my cans into my modded Crack to touch base yet again with the sound and experience I’ve had countless times. Here comes the crescendo… “Hello from the other Si-iiiiiiiiIIIDEE!” Yep, I again get the jitters, my heart rate climbs, and I feel rejuvenated. Now, let’s compare…

S.E.X. (vs. modded Crack)



The gist of it: Spaciousness increased noticeably but midrange presence, body, and bite all decreased. I felt transported, but I didn’t get riled up. Treble jumps out more than other ranges. I love the flexibility and layout of this sort of auditory Swiss army knife though—I still want one for speakers and low-impedance headphones.

More specifics: Adele’s voice wasn’t as intense or present, but the treble clarity was better.

Sinatra’s voice in _You Make Me Feel So Young _(vinyl) soared. When I said this to Dan, he asked me if I had seen any photos of Sinatra recording at Capitol Studios. “No,” I replied. He then explained how they were great recording studios—and that the mics were set up to hang from above and were spaced out from the singer. Here are some photos I found online when I got home to show what he was talking about:



Although the atmosphere and scale were impressive through the S.E.X., the vocals were a bit too pushed back for my tastes. Also, the lower registers of his voice weren’t as present.

Shostakovich’s _Aphorisms, Op. 13 – Mvt. 3 – Nocturne_ (SACD) highlighted the wide soundscape once again, and the tone of the piano sounded a bit more realistic.

Ray Charles’ _Ev’ry Time We Say Goodbye _(SACD) sounded clear and relaxing, but lacked the presence and guttural density in his voice.

Crackatwoa (vs. modded Crack)



The gist of it: Spaciousness increased a bit, midrange presence seems unchanged, body increased, and bite seems unchanged. Bass was more present and alive. The increase in frequency range and body made me think that I’m getting the whole sonic picture (the antithesis of flat and thin). I felt more transported if that makes sense—perhaps as if my suspension of disbelief elevated to new heights—and I got riled up just the same as through my modded Crack.

More specifics: Adele’s _Hello_ was rendered with all the passion I’ve come to love from the Crack, but the body to her vocals was more plump, and the bass notes during the chorus were more explosive. I explained to Dan that I noticed the increased range and power of the bass and he pointed out that it’s because of the shunt voltage regulation, and how it also increases the range of the treble.

Sinatra’s _You Make Me Feel So Young_ gave me the impression of my modded Crack on steroids. The bass in his voice was rendered better and was more prominent. This reminded me of replacing the stock tubes on my Crack to the RCAs…but the Crackatwoa has stock tubes! So, that more sophisticated power supply is really showing its worth.

Ray Charles’ _Ev’ry Time We Say Goodbye _reinforced the impression of the Crack on steroids. The ache of his passion and the bite of his vocal peaks were really moving…a few notches above my modded Crack.

Mainline (vs. modded Crack)



The gist of it: Spaciousness seems on par with Crackatwoa, midrange presence is unreal (meaning incredibly real…), body is unreal (lots of “flesh and blood” as Herb Reichert would say), and bite seems the tiniest bit decreased. Here my understanding of being transported was changed… It wasn’t just the spaciousness that did it for me, it was also the staggering sense of realism coming from what was centerstage; the body and midrange presence really grabs your attention as it would in a live space. And tone was eerily realistic. My heart rate climbed and I was excited during crescendos, but just not quite to the same level as the modded Crack or Crackatwoa.

More specifics: Piano is where the Mainline clearly outshone the Crack and Crackatwoa for me. The tone of the two Cracks seemed a little off and artificial in comparison. But it’s a case where I wouldn’t have noticed until hearing the Mainline. It made me reevaluate what’s possible in this hobby. Shostakovich’s _Aphorisms, Op. 13 – Mvt. 3 – Nocturne _was truly a pleasure to listen to here. I could really sense the acoustic space; the reverberations and the apparent size of the room. And each note seemed uncolored and weighty. As the finger gymnastics ramped up, notes seemed to linger without clouding the attack of the successive notes. I sensed the decay and acoustic space, while easily still following the present twists and turns of the music’s build up. These layers and depth made the experience exhilarating.

Radiohead’s _Subterranean Homesick Alien _(vinyl) was a resolute soundscape that was uncongested and full of life. I could plunge into this world mind-turned-off like going into a lavender hot pool, or sharpen my senses and appreciate subtle details that were rendered like I’ve never heard before. For example, the melody dances back and forth between the left and right channels, with the reverb decaying in the opposite channel—this has never been easier to follow for me. It’s like calmly looking left and right to observe a display of fireworks, rather than being overwhelmed by them. The impression of life, sophistication, and composure come to mind while listening through the Mainline. Fittingly, the Mainline is intoxicating and it has a confidence about it as if it’s operating in a flow state.

Ray Charles’ _Ev’ry Time We Say Goodbye_ was more affecting, not because of bite…but because of resolution. The longing and breaks in his voice were rendered beautifully. I first told Dan, that it’s more detailed than the Crack but doesn’t quite have the same bite and I found that to be odd…how can it be more detailed but have less bite? He said that’s why he prefers the term “resolution” because it doesn’t imply brightness like detail does to many audiophiles. Ah, I’m learning a lot .

Crackatwoa w/ RCA 6SN7GT grey-glass & RCA 6AS7G (vs. modded Crack)



The gist of it: Immediately evident is that tubes don’t change the signature as much as with the Crack. With the Crack, the RCA tubes are crucial for me to get the midrange presence and bite; with the Crackatwoa, those traits are evident with the stock tubes. However, some traits of the RCA that I’m very familiar with did carry over, such as bass lines being more clearly separated from other layers in the mix, and the nostalgic analog sparkle in the treble (distortion, as Dan more scientifically called it haha).

Spaciousness, or the sense of space, attained the same analog—like I’m breathing in the venue—quality, and the scale seems slightly increased like with the stock Crackatwoa. Midrange presence seemed the same. Body was weightier and more substantial than my modded Crack (Dan, this is what I personally love about what octals do vs. 9-pin tubes…generally). Bite seemed the same.

More specifics:

Adele’s _Hello_… whoa, okay, this is the upgrade I think I’m putting myself in line for. A level of power and frequency range are now evident that my modded Crack can’t match. And the RCA tubes dial in the signature and tone that I’m so in love with. The crescendos are the most stirring I’ve experienced.

Sinatra’s _You Make Me Feel So Young_ was a great example of warm tone. His voice is dense and smooth...closer to what I imagine listening live would be like.

Ray Charles’ _Ev’ry Time We Say Goodbye _exhibited more of the same. At the start when he says, "Ohhhhhhhh, ev'ry time..." I always listen for the little inflections and details when he says "Ohhhhhhhh" because there's a lot of substance there. Crackatwoa with the RCA tubes extracted more weighty tones than I ever remember hearing.

Dan and I discussed and agreed that the basic Crack kit is great for incremental upgrades over time, but if one is willing to spend around the same total amount right at the get-go, then the Crackatwoa is sonically superior even in stock form. Dan stressed the importance of a more sophisticated circuit design and power supply in improving sound quality, versus upgrading a simpler circuit with expensive, boutique parts. Makes sense. But he also said the point of the Crack is to learn and experiment—and I explained my upgrades were always value focused, often $20 or less per upgrade every few months or so after I first got it. So, if I bought a Crackatwoa, the only upgrades I would do would be the stepped attenuators, film output caps, and my vintage RCA tubes. Dan explained how the power supply is so isolated from the signal path that all the power supply upgrades for the basic Crack (like Cree Schottky diodes and power supply film caps) likely wouldn’t be noticeable.

Conclusion

For my setup, the Crackatwoa would be my choice of upgrade if I can afford it in the future. The Mainline was incredible in terms of resolution, tone, and body. But this whole listening test made me realize that, for me, lifelike bite is probably the most important aspect of the sound I like because it elicits physiological responses like heart rate and jitters—literally making me feel more as I listen to the music.

After my main listening tests, I did try out Dan’s HD 800 with the Mainline and that made me feel like an orphan watching a happy family at Disneyland from behind the gates. But honestly, it didn’t have the bite. The treble did, but not the rest of the vocal range…it seemed too distant for me. It possessed other qualities that sounded lifelike though, like its famed super-wide soundscape, and great resolution…but its traits just didn’t align with my tastes.

Dan overall gave me the impression of someone who’s been there and seen it all. I’m a science major, and I really appreciated how to a lot of my questions, he took a moment to clarify things and avoid generalizations. Like my biology professor said to my class, “Avoid blanket statements. We need to make our determinations within an appropriate and thorough understanding of the correlating conditions.” Dan exhibited the same scientific mentality, and that makes sense given his nickname.

Okay, that’s all! Thanks for reading. And thanks, Dan and Eileen, again for your warmth and time. This really was a memorable experience for me—from my drive along the Puget Sound and the pines, to the discussions, and for the chance to listen to equipment I can’t quite afford at the moment as a starving student. I’m happy you’re a company local to me in the PNW.


----------



## JamieMcC

Thanks for posting such a nice write up from your visit to BH HQ, I enjoyed reading it. 

It would be great to meet Doc and the rest of the BH team just to personally say thank you for many hours of enjoyment their Bottlehead amps have given me.

The dire US to UK exchange rate and import duty adding roughly 25% on top has curtailed my Bottlehead building ambitions for the time being but I  am looking forward to  building another BH kit again at some point in the future

.


----------



## larcenasb

You're welcome JamieMcC & TWMM! Hope this is helpful to the many who don't have the chance to directly compare the Bottlehead amps. Cheers!


----------



## mxxl

Anyone know how I can confirm what output impedance my sex 3.0 is wired for?


----------



## ProfFalkin

mxxl said:


> Anyone know how I can confirm what output impedance my sex 3.0 is wired for?


Yep.

Ask Doc on the BH forums.


----------



## JamieMcC

It's been a while since my last post here hope you guys are all well. 

Something for the cap junkies here.

I had been thinking bout trying the Duelund silver foil bypass capacitors in my Mainline for a while now after installing the Duelund Cast Copper capacitors in my Bottlehead Eros phono stage a few years ago and being impressed with the results.

Duelund very recently announced a new versions of both their silver and copper foil bypass capacitors along with cutting the price by 50% due to improved synergy after taking over Jenson who were undertakening the winding of them for Duelund. 
The new improved version is called the Duelund JDM (Jenson Domestic Market).

At the new price (£35 each here in the UK) I couldn't resist the temptation to give them a try. After installing the silver foils in bypass configuration onto the 10 uf RTI Teflon Tin foil capacitors I have in my Mainline I have been listening to tunes through them for a few days now.

Current chain
Roon Rock (all SSD) >Oppo205 DAC >Bottlehead Mainline amp> Sennheiser hd800 (balanced cable)

These silver foils are really quiet something the difference has been significant and across the board from top to bottom.

It's hard not to gush but in all honestly it feels like I am listening to a different dac and that's not some thing I expected to be saying or say lightly. 

For clarification I purchased the Duelund JDM Silver foil capacitors with my own money from their authorised distributor here in the UK and have no other financial connection with them.

Congratulation to Duelund for making such a superb product available at such a affordable price.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Woah!  Glad to see you posting (and cap rolling!) again, Jamie!


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi Paul thanks,  still alive & kicking  here and lurking on one or two favirite threads.


----------



## pofofo

Im waiting for my S.E.X. to arrive and Im planning to build some easy-to-drive fullrange speakers for it. But I just got a pair of Stax Sr-Lambda with a SRD-6 adapter and was hoping that the S.E.X. will work for this. Have anyone tried this?


----------



## lycos

itsikhefez said:


> I have an Elekit TU-8600 300B tube amp kit coming in tomorrow. This is intended for a speaker system but i



Trying my luck on replying a year old post. How do you find tu8600 vs mainline?


----------



## Tom-s

Inspired by the beauty of the Mainline amplifier. I decided to rewire my S3X and lose a stage. Just a single stage, doing it all. For speakers and headphones this time.

It now uses the E55L tube (triode connector for a massive 50mA/V transconductance!!) from the Mullard Mitcham factory. This tube is a marvel on it's own, among the best 1960's pentode tube technology had to offer. http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2011/11/tube-of-month-e55l.html

The sound is clear, detailed, layers and layers of accurate reproduction. Does it rival my Mainline... unfortunately yes it does. 
It's the kind of amp that's so detailed and good, you just keep turning up the volume.


----------



## tvr2500m

Tom-s said:


> ... I decided to rewire my S3X and lose a stage. Just a single stage, doing it all. For speakers and headphones this time.
> 
> It now uses the E55L tube (triode connector for a massive 50mA/V transconductance!!) from the Mullard Mitcham factory. ...
> 
> ... Does it rival my Mainline... unfortunately yes it does. ...


Interesting. Do tell. Which stage did you get rid of and how did you do it??


----------



## tvr2500m

ProfFalkin said:


> I say... Alfalfa.
> 
> And yes, the SEX is a good way to go.  Don't be surprised that it's not as "tube-ish" sounding as the Crack.  Tube hybrid amps can be another good solution - the Cavalli MCTH, Liquid Platinum, Lyr 3, etc.   Also, you can try little kits like this, if you like to tinker.


Yeah, just responding to this now... I'm good with not as tube'ish. My experience informs me that tubes and transistors (or op amps) can sound any which way, though there may be more typical characteristics of each. The Audio Research, Sonic Fronitiers, and later C-J tubed gear I had (and I still have a C-J CAV-50) didn't so very "tube'ish". I had a very early C-J amp updated by its original designer and that update changed its sonics entirely.

Rolling tubes can alter the sonics of the Crack, like it can with much tube equipment. I tend to triangulate on a sonic character that's less soft, mostly wanting more edge, speed, and space from the Senn 6XX + Crack combo.

The first headphone amp I tried was a Millett tube hybrid, and I built and still have a Butte.

I've started the assembly of my S3X, but haven't finished it.


----------



## Tom-s

tvr2500m said:


> Interesting. Do tell. Which stage did you get rid of and how did you do it??



It's not just getting rid of one single stage. By changing the amp to a single stage setup from a dual stage amp it originally is; all needs to change.

I first removed all internals and tube sockets from my original S3X. It had brought me beautifull music for years and inspired by the Mainline, i felt the need for a makeover. 

It was rebuild as shown in the following schematics. I feel the S3X now sounds closer to the Mainline than i've ever heard it. So clear, very accurate in reproduction, with the hitting and tight bass I used to hear with S3X. It's the best of both worlds! I'm enjoying it a lot. 
Hope to further improve upon it's sound with some film caps and other parafeed coupling caps.


----------



## Audioraider

JamieMcC said:


> It's been a while since my last post here hope you guys are all well.
> 
> Something for the cap junkies here.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info, I am going to try the Duelund. Do I just connect them to ends of the 10uf cap? I also want to upgrade the 10uf. What is the large white one you use? Is that the best?


----------



## JamieMcC

Audioraider said:


> Thank you for the info, I am going to try the Duelund. Do I just connect them to ends of the 10uf cap? I also want to upgrade the 10uf. What is the large white one you use? Is that the best?



Hi cheers yes the Duelunds just connect to the ends of the 10uf caps.

Those white 10uf capacitors in my Mainline are RTI Teflon tin foils. Probably hard to find now as they were actually made for a company called Audio Research to go in their cost no object anniversary preamp but a mix up in the order ment they were the right uf. value but wrong physical size to fit the amp.

 A nearby company to them  TC Tubes who supply some of the tubes for their amps was used to quietly dispose of them think there was only around 30 available a good number of them of those went to Mainline owners.

I've also used the 10uf audyn interlink cap plus capacitor in the Mainline and thought it excellent plus it's a reasonable price.


----------



## Audioraider

JamieMcC said:


> Hi cheers yes the Duelunds just connect to the ends of the 10uf caps.
> 
> Those white 10uf capacitors in my Mainline are RTI Teflon tin foils. Probably hard to find now as they were actually made for a company called Audio Research to go in their cost no object anniversary preamp but a mix up in the order ment they were the right uf. value but wrong physical size to fit the amp.
> 
> ...


I have contacted Tyler at TC tubes and he is helping me out. I really appreciate your help on this. Another question regarding the bypass cap, I have a very nice set of audionote .1uf caps. Would they work for the bypass? I saw the Duelund you use are .01uf 
As you can tell I’m extremely uneducated in this area 😅


----------



## JamieMcC

Audioraider said:


> I have contacted Tyler at TC tubes and he is helping me out. I really appreciate your help on this. Another question regarding the bypass cap, I have a very nice set of audionote .1uf caps. Would they work for the bypass? I saw the Duelund you use are .01uf
> As you can tell I’m extremely uneducated in this area 😅



I've always found Tyler at TC Tubes very  helpful and have used them a number of times over the years myself as they ship to the UK.

Yes absolutely try the Audionote as a bypass I'm very much in the try it and see camp you can always swap them out for something else at a later date.


----------



## Audioraider

I am receiving my mainline tomorrow. I didn’t build it and I’m wondering how to bias the tubes. I’ve googled it but there is really nothing online, I assume because most of you built yours. Looking at the pics I would guess it’s the screws on the two small blue Blocks on the center PCB? Where do I attach the positive and negative leads of the multimeter and what voltage am I looking for.
Thank you!


----------



## JamieMcC

Unfortunately I'm not able to check my manual at the moment as the pc it's on is in need repair. Hopefully someone else can chime in or alternatively try the Bottlehead forum.


----------



## Audioraider

JamieMcC said:


> It's been a while since my last post here hope you guys are all well.
> 
> Something for the cap junkies here.
> 
> ...


Hey Jamie, wondering if you have an update about the Duelund bypass caps after living with them for a while?
I got a set of the 10uf red and gold Audio Research caps from Tyler and they sound great. I emailed Doc about bypassing those 10 UF caps and he says he doesn’t do it because of the potential for smearing or ringing. I had these 0.1 UF V-caps sitting around so I decided to just throw them in and see if I can hear a difference. Wow, it was not Subtle! They still have to burn in because they’ve been sitting on the shelf for about five years but the immediate difference is much cleaner highs and a tighter base. I’m not hearing any smearing a ringing yet but I’ll have to live with them for a while.  I have a set of 15uf Audyn tri-reference coming today. I’m gonna be burning in caps for a while 😀
Arlan


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi Arlan good to hear your enjoying the Mainline. With the bypassing sometimes it works out other times not. The only certainty is you need to try to find out and that be fun in itself what ever the end result.

I don't think my Duelunds will be coming out anytime soon. This hobby can get pretty crazy with aftermarket cables, tube rolling, usb filters etc etc. The cost of the Duelunds is pretty reasonable in comparison plus they can always come out and be tried in another amp or sold on.


----------



## barbz127

Ignoring the price is the mainline or crackatwoa the better amplifier for 300ohm headphones?


----------



## Audioraider

barbz127 said:


> Ignoring the price is the mainline or crackatwoa the better amplifier for 300ohm headphones?


I have not tried the crackatowoa but I can tell you my Vérité closed (300ohm) sound spectacular on the Mainline with upgraded caps. Much better than on the exceptional Master 9.


----------



## barbz127

Thank you.

Verite closed are my headphone of choice so there goes that money I may have saved


----------



## Little Bear

barbz127 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Verite closed are my headphone of choice *so there goes that money I may have saved*



I think you should get more than one opinion before leaping to a decision.  I happen to have the Crackatwoa and it's amazing with my ZMF Auteur and HD800S.  I was thinking of building a Mainline but the C2A is so enjoyable that I no longer have an interest in the Mainline.

The Crackatwoa is OTL, and Mainline is SET, so the Mainline can drive a wider range of headphone impedances.  Mainline also has a less tube-like sound signature than the Crack/C2A do.

If you think you'll want to use low impedance planars with the amp, I suggest the Mainline because it will drive any type.  If you only want to use higher impedance cans like the ZMFs and Sennheisers, I suggest you build a Crack first.  With Speedball it's only $415, and you can build it in a day.  It's sound will be closer to the Crackatwoa than the Mainline, because it's an OTL.  If you love the sound, sell it on head-fi and buy the C2A.  If you think it's two warm or tubey, buy the Mainline.  That's the way I'd approach it.  The bonus of  building the Crack first is that you'll have some practice with BH kits before diving into the more complex amps they offer.


----------



## Audioraider (Nov 25, 2020)

I am going down the cap rabbithole 😜 first the red and gold Audio Research, they are really rich and big sounding but the base seems to be a little loose. I burned them in around 200 hrs, not enough to reach their full potential but enough to get a feel for them. then based on what Jamie has been doing with Duelund bypass caps I added some V-cap .1uf to bypass those. Didn’t really know what to expect but I have to say the highs are substantially better, I was rather shocked. Doc told me to watch out for smearing when I bypass those 10uf caps but I haven’t heard any smearing or ringing so far.
today I removed those and threw in some Audyn tri-reference 15uf caps. These are monsters but I moved the boards forward and fit them in. I have ordered some Jantzen silver Z caps 15 UF. That I will try in a few weeks.
I’m also going to order a pair of the Duelund silver bypass caps that Jamie is using and try those in combination with these capacitors. I’ll report back my findings.


----------



## Audioraider

Little Bear said:


> I think you should get more than one opinion before leaping to a decision.  I happen to have the Crackatwoa and it's amazing with my ZMF Auteur and HD800S.  I was thinking of building a Mainline but the C2A is so enjoyable that I no longer have an interest in the Mainline.
> 
> The Crackatwoa is OTL, and Mainline is SET, so the Mainline can drive a wider range of headphone impedances.  Mainline also has a less tube-like sound signature than the Crack/C2A do.
> 
> If you think you'll want to use low impedance planars with the amp, I suggest the Mainline because it will drive any type.  If you only want to use higher impedance cans like the ZMFs and Sennheisers, I suggest you build a Crack first.  With Speedball it's only $415, and you can build it in a day.  It's sound will be closer to the Crackatwoa than the Mainline, because it's an OTL.  If you love the sound, sell it on head-fi and buy the C2A.  If you think it's two warm or tubey, buy the Mainline.  That's the way I'd approach it.  The bonus of  building the Crack first is that you'll have some practice with BH kits before diving into the more complex amps they offer.


I don’t have the Auteur but the vérité closed is a dark headphone. I Tried them with an upgraded crack with speedball and did not like them. Way too dark and mushy. I’m currently swapping out caps in my mainline to try and brighten up the signature. It is a fairly neutral amp but I need more top end to compensate for the dark nature of the vérité Woody’s.


----------



## Audioraider (Dec 2, 2020)

JamieMcC said:


> It's been a while since my last post here hope you guys are all well.
> 
> Something for the cap junkies here.
> 
> ...


Jamie, I’m hoping you can help me because I’m thoroughly confused at this point. Regarding what side the outer foil connects to in the mainline. On the bottlehead Forum people make contradictory statements. in this pic, it appears to me, you have the Duelund inner foil connected to 20 and 30 but the Teflon cap seems reversed With the outer foil connected to 20 and 30? I currently have my caps oriented with the inner foil connected to 20 and 30 (the tube side) and the outer foil connected to the transformer side. Is this correct?


----------



## Audioraider

On the Duelund website it says they should be oriented a certain way:  “The outer lead out, closest to the edge of the capacitor, is connected to the outer foil and as such should be connected to the lowest impedance path to ground, generally the signal output.” I think means the outer foil goes to the tube side 20 and 30? That means we both have them in backwards? Not sure if this even affects the sound but I would like to install them correctly.


----------



## JamieMcC

Think I was in a rush to solder them in before my kids got back from school and as I didnt have access to my manual they just went in. So it wouldn't be a surprise that the outer foil was not orientated correctly.  I'll swap them round at some point.


----------



## DenverW

I dont think there will be an audible difference in the orientation of the caps, but I also want to have them oriented properly,  I’m running 10uf auricap XO with duelund silver bypass caps.  Really burning into a coherent sound On my mainline,  Using Hd800 And zmf auteur.

i have a crackatwoa kit that I’m building, so I’ll eventually be able to give comparisons, but I’ll probably wait until I upgrade the crack2a to the level that the mainline is upgraded to make it a fair comparison.

And I get to try out a new tube type , the 6005/el90/6aq5!  If anyone has any opinions on the best of these let me know!


----------



## hikaru12

Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of a stock Mainline? I’m trying to decide on it or the Crackatowa for my Stellias which are super low impedance (35 ohms).


----------



## Audioraider

hikaru12 said:


> Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of a stock Mainline? I’m trying to decide on it or the Crackatowa for my Stellias which are super low impedance (35 ohms).


14x14
I own the mainline which is fantastic with low impedance headphones like the Stellia I don’t think the Crackatowoa would be a good match.


----------



## NYer718 (Feb 20, 2021)

Does anyone know how well the Mainline would pair with the Apogee MiniDac with a set of HD650?


----------



## DenverW

NYer718 said:


> Does anyone know how well the Mainline would pair with the Apogee MiniDac with a set of HD650?



Great with the 650, but no idea about the dac.


----------



## Lohb

Anyone use the Mainline with LCD-XC or DCA AEon 2 in XLR mode ?

Does it have the juice to power these planars into a quality SQ zone ?


----------



## SilverEars

Lohb said:


> Anyone use the Mainline with LCD-XC or DCA AEon 2 in XLR mode ?
> 
> Does it have the juice to power these planars into a quality SQ zone ?


Mainline is weak for what you pay for.  I would go for a solid state for the planars. Mainline XLR is single ended, so it makes no difference.


----------



## Tom-s

SilverEars said:


> Mainline is weak for what you pay for.  I would go for a solid state for the planars. Mainline XLR is single ended, so it makes no difference.



It's not correct what you state here. It does have a switch to allow a balanced output from the output transformer secondary windings. 

It can be run both balanced and as single ended. With the XLR output connect one can use both options via a switch.


----------



## baseonmars

Lohb said:


> Anyone use the Mainline with LCD-XC or DCA AEon 2 in XLR mode ?
> 
> Does it have the juice to power these planars into a quality SQ zone ?


The SEX set to 4ohms was supreme with the original Aeon closed... I guess that's not what you asked directly but I haven't heard them sound even remotely as enjoyable on another amp - I think they really need more juice than most people give them.


----------



## Lohb

I just decided to stay with Cayin HA-1a Mk2 amp, I was offered Mainline in a trade for another hybrid amp.
Thanks anyway !


----------



## hikaru12

Sorry if this has been answered before but does the Mainline work with a 6SN7 with a 12AU7 adapter? Is the plate voltage too high/low?


----------



## larcenasb (Sep 10, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered before but does the Mainline work with a 6SN7 with a 12AU7 adapter? Is the plate voltage too high/low?


I've read of others doing this and it technically works, however, you may not see much benefit with tube rolling since the tube is in the power supply and is not an input tube. Given that, I wouldn't spend large amounts on the coveted WWII-era 6SN7GT tubes. Here's a quote from Paul Birkeland of Bottlehead:

"Though there are a lot of 12AU7 variants, it's in the power supply, and not as influential as the 12AU7 is in the Crack." [Source: https://forum.bottlehead.com/index.php?topic=5332.0 ...reply #1]


----------



## DenverW

hikaru12 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered before but does the Mainline work with a 6SN7 with a 12AU7 adapter? Is the plate voltage too high/low?



Yes, but there is no point to it.  Just roll any 12au7 into the mainline.  Tube rolling with the mainline has no effect I can determine.  You’re better off upgrading the 10 uf caps.


----------



## CaptainFantastic

DenverW said:


> Yes, but there is no point to it.  Just roll any 12au7 into the mainline.  Tube rolling with the mainline has no effect I can determine.  You’re better off upgrading the 10 uf caps.



Is the same true of the Crackatwoa, that some of the tubes (6080, 12AU7, EL90) have no effect on the sound? Or is it something in between a Crack and Mainline in terms of how the sound is influenced by the tubes?


----------



## DenverW

CaptainFantastic said:


> Is the same true of the Crackatwoa, that some of the tubes (6080, 12AU7, EL90) have no effect on the sound? Or is it something in between a Crack and Mainline in terms of how the sound is influenced by the tubes?



There is difference in the crackatwoa.  The el90 tubes less than the others.  I would agree with your statement that is is in between the crack and mainline for tube rolling; somewhere more towards the crack than the mainline though.


----------



## Lickumms

Has anyone had a chance to compare the TorAudio Balanced Amp to the Mainline or other BottleHead Amps?


----------



## hikaru12

My god I can’t believe how these VDAM caps bring the Mainline to another level. The soundstage and detail level takes this amp to incredible territory.


----------



## JamieMcC

hikaru12 said:


> My god I can’t believe how these VDAM caps bring the Mainline to another level. The soundstage and detail level takes this amp to incredible territory.



The did you mean V-cap odams?  It's said they do take a while to break in.

Try swapping back the stock caps in six months time just for fun..


----------



## hikaru12

JamieMcC said:


> The did you mean V-cap odams?  It's said they do take a while to break in.
> 
> Try swapping back the stock caps in six months time just for fun..



Yep oil caps take this thing to another level. I originally wanted to get Juniper caps but they don’t make them in 10uF size or not at least for any reasonable price.


----------



## supermage

hikaru12 said:


> Yep oil caps take this thing to another level. I originally wanted to get Juniper caps but they don’t make them in 10uF size or not at least for any reasonable price.


I just got the mainline a couple of months ago and switched the caps to Mundorf supreme aluminum caps. What exact size did you get the V-Caps? I am thinking of switching. What would be the easiest way to break these in? Just leave the amp on 24/7 with or without music?


----------



## hikaru12

supermage said:


> I just got the mainline a couple of months ago and switched the caps to Mundorf supreme aluminum caps. What exact size did you get the V-Caps? I am thinking of switching. What would be the easiest way to break these in? Just leave the amp on 24/7 with or without music?



Music definitely and I just did the stock 10uF. Totally worth it.


----------



## supermage

hikaru12 said:


> Music definitely and I just did the stock 10uF. Totally worth it.


Awesome thank you


----------



## supermage

hikaru12 said:


> My god I can’t believe how these VDAM caps bring the Mainline to another level. The soundstage and detail level takes this amp to incredible territory.


How many hours for the break in you think? I’m gonna go ahead and order these


----------



## DenverW

I have 10 uf Mundorf supreme evo oil in mine, which are available for more reasonable prices, and I enjoy the sound.  I'm a fan of a warmer sound.


----------



## supermage

DenverW said:


> I have 10 uf Mundorf supreme evo oil in mine, which are available for more reasonable prices, and I enjoy the sound.  I'm a fan of a warmer sound.


How do they compare to the stock daytons? I never gave those real time


----------



## DenverW

I had auricap xo caps in my previous mainline as well.  I'm not the best at describing sound nuances, but I'd say overall a more realistic tone, with better clarity.  The mundorf have a bit more warmth while the auricap were more neutral.  It was a fun and worthwhile upgrade; you've just got a lot of burn in ahead.


----------



## JamieMcC (Oct 11, 2021)

Check ebay regularly search 10uf capacitors used on eBay you might be surprised at what comes up I've had some stonking bargains in the past and had many a silly offer to my surprise accepted.  

A seller has a bunch of these to shift a perfect silly offer opertunity.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185085636262?hash=item2b17f6aea6:g:MEIAAOSwJnthMjXf&LH_ItemCondition=4


----------



## hikaru12

supermage said:


> How many hours for the break in you think? I’m gonna go ahead and order these


At least 100 - oil caps no matter the brand take a long time to burn in. I like these for their transparency and clarity.


----------



## BearChuck75

So, first post here ... just wanted to join the fun as I finally pulled the trigger on a Mainline kit!  I have some experience with soldering and reading schematics as I previously assembled a Hagerman Bugle, as well as a couple different DIY phono stage builds from an Audiokarma DIYer, but it's been a good 7-8 years and I'm feeling a bit rusty. I was wavering between the Crack and the Mainline - the former looked less daunting but the latter better fits what I need right now. Hopefully I haven't bit off more than I can chew, but the consensus seems to be that as long as I'm slow and deliberate and I follow the directions precisely, I'll be just fine.

Anyway, I'll post my impressions when the build is done ... assuming I haven't blown myself up.


----------



## miter53

BearChuck75 said:


> So, first post here ... just wanted to join the fun as I finally pulled the trigger on a Mainline kit!  I have some experience with soldering and reading schematics as I previously assembled a Hagerman Bugle, as well as a couple different DIY phono stage builds from an Audiokarma DIYer, but it's been a good 7-8 years and I'm feeling a bit rusty. I was wavering between the Crack and the Mainline - the former looked less daunting but the latter better fits what I need right now. Hopefully I haven't bit off more than I can chew, but the consensus seems to be that as long as I'm slow and deliberate and I follow the directions precisely, I'll be just fine.
> 
> Anyway, I'll post my impressions when the build is done ... assuming I haven't blown myself up.


Having built a BH BeePre, a Hagerman Cornet 2, and several guitar amps, I think you will have no problem. BH instructions are about the best around. Just take your time and enjoy the process.


----------



## DenverW

Added a pair of .1uf duelund pure copper foil caps to bypass the 10uf mundorf tonight.  The burn in process begins.  Of course, it sounds soooo much better immediately.  Ok, perhaps it's my excitement and confirmation bias at play, I admit .


----------



## RestoredSparda

DenverW said:


> Added a pair of .1uf duelund pure copper foil caps to bypass the 10uf mundorf tonight.  The burn in process begins.  Of course, it sounds soooo much better immediately.  Ok, perhaps it's my excitement and confirmation bias at play, I admit .


Did you attached them to the middle of the leads of the 10uf capacitors, or directly to the same terminals? Curious how it's best to attach for bypass.  Got pics? Lol


----------



## DenverW

RestoredSparda said:


> Did you attached them to the middle of the leads of the 10uf capacitors, or directly to the same terminals? Curious how it's best to attach for bypass.  Got pics? Lol



I attached them to the same terminals.  I’ve attached it to the lead before, and it is a difficult solder job to be honest.  Terminal is much easier.


----------



## supermage

DenverW said:


> I attached them to the same terminals.  I’ve attached it to the lead before, and it is a difficult solder job to be honest.  Terminal is much easier.


You don’t mind if you send a picture? I’ve always wanted to see how this looked up close


----------



## RestoredSparda (Nov 20, 2021)

supermage said:


> You don’t mind if you send a picture? I’ve always wanted to see how this looked up close


Someone earlier in this thread posted an idea of how it would look soldered to the leads of the 10uf caps. Just imagine connecting them to the same terminals that the 10uf are attached to instead.

You would basically remove the solder from the terminals the 10uf caps are attached to, then attach the leads of the .1uf bypass caps to those same terminals and then solder it all back up.

My bypass caps should arrive soonish and I'll take a photo for you then.

(The black vcaps are the bypass caps in this photo).


----------



## supermage

RestoredSparda said:


> Someone earlier in this thread posted an idea of how it would look soldered to the leads of the 10uf caps. Just imagine connecting them to the same terminals that the 10uf are attached to instead.
> 
> You would basically remove the solder from the terminals the 10uf caps are attached to, then attach the leads of the .1uf bypass caps to those same terminals and then solder it all back up.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


----------



## RestoredSparda (Dec 1, 2021)

Life has been busy but I was finally able to find time to attach the .1uf bypass caps.

I'm going to give these some time to burn in but first impressions are the amp doesn't sound worse. Lol.

I also need to wrap some heartshrink around the leads to rule out any future shorts.


----------



## supermage (Dec 5, 2021)

RestoredSparda said:


> Life has been busy but I was finally able to find time to attach the .1uf bypass caps.
> 
> I'm going to give these some time to burn in but first impressions are the amp doesn't sound worse. Lol.
> 
> I also need to wrap some heartshrink around the leads to rule out any future shorts.


How are the vcaps working for you so far? How many hours you put in them? Thanks for the pictures btw


----------



## JamieMcC (Dec 5, 2021)

I don't have Vcaps in my  Mainline in another amp I have the Vcap 0.1cutf and they took a long time at least 300hrs


----------



## RestoredSparda

supermage said:


> How are the vcaps working for you so far? How many hours you put in them? Thanks for the pictures btw


Love em. They are the 10uf variety. They took around 150 to 200 hours before settling. Still sounds like a Mainline but there is more micro detail, sense of space, instrument separation, slightly smoother highs. Kind of like the OG mainline sound but to the next level in refinement.  

Bad recordings sound bad and good recordings sound stellar.


----------



## RestoredSparda

JamieMcC said:


> I don't have Vcaps in my  Mainline in another amp I have the Cutf 0.1cutf and they took a long time at least 300hrs


Elekit?


----------



## JamieMcC

RestoredSparda said:


> Elekit?



Yes its a Elekit TU-8900 with the Lundahl amorphous core transformer upgrade. It can run 300B or 2A3 tubes plug and play with auto detect and biasing. Also selectable to run with or without feedback.


----------



## RestoredSparda

JamieMcC said:


> Yes its a Elekit TU-8900 with the Lundahl amorphous core transformer upgrade. It can run 300B or 2A3 tubes plug and play with auto detect and biasing. Also selectable to run with or without feedback.


Very nice! I recently read a build and impressions thread on SBAF on that amp. Very cool amp.  Have you posted any impressions or comparisons between the Mainline and TU-8900?


----------



## JamieMcC (Dec 5, 2021)

RestoredSparda said:


> Very nice! I recently read a build and impressions thread on SBAF on that amp. Very cool amp.  Have you posted any impressions or comparisons between the Mainline and TU-8900?



Yes Marv did a very good write up on sbaf certainly agree with his assessment of the build and sonics. He also made some comments on the headfi thread.

I don't think I've posted any comparisons myself. The TU-8900 with AM transformers is around $2500 including some medium price tubes making it just over twice the price of the Mainline so its not really a fair comparison.  I've really enjoyed and appreciated listening to music with my Mainline for the last six years it's truly an amazing headphone amp. The TU-8900 has taken that enjoyment to another level plus now I can enjoy both listening to speakers and headphones from a single amp.

I think there were a couple of posters on the Elekit 300B thread who have had both Mainline and Kaiju who comment.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/elekit-300b-amp-kit.869957/

The thread encompassed both the TU-8600 and TU-8900 amps it's only 12 pages long.


----------



## supermage

JamieMcC said:


> Yes Marv did a very good write up on sbaf certainly agree with his assessment of the build and sonics. He also made some comments on the headfi thread.
> 
> I don't think I've posted any comparisons myself. The TU-8900 with AM transformers is around $2500 including some medium price tubes making it just over twice the price of the Mainline so its not really a fair comparison.  I've really enjoyed and appreciated listening to music with my Mainline for the last six years it's truly an amazing headphone amp. The TU-8900 has taken that enjoyment to another level plus now I can enjoy both listening to speakers and headphones from a single amp.
> 
> ...


very nice, thinking of jumping over to DNA stratus or starlett from the mainline. Perhaps tu-8900 might be comparable?


----------



## JamieMcC

supermage said:


> very nice, thinking of jumping over to DNA stratus or starlett from the mainline. Perhaps tu-8900 might be comparable?



I've never heard the Stratus but am well aware of its reputation.

Maven86 the sbaf reviewers last comment on the headfi thread was.

"I guess what I was trying to say in all my ranting is that I find my 8900 more emotionally engaging than my old stratus. It just does it in a different way."

Feel free to ask questions on the thread I linked a few posts up rather than head off topic here.


----------



## deserat

Just in case anybody decides to do something crazy, like me. I bought the IE 900 and have really been enjoying them on my WA-8 ( Woo Audio ) and AK USB PEE51 dongle ( Astell and Kern ). Thought I'd do something a little crazy and try plugging them into my real system.  MediaCenter ( Direct with no conversions ) -> Yggy  OG ( all upgrades ) -> Mainline. Honesty I was expecting alot of hiss and sadness. 

I bought a 4 pin xlr to 4mm balanced adapter and jacked in. Downside, sound stage is exactly the size of my head. To me, that's a pretty big downside. I love to close my eyes and sense the environment; concert hall, garage, studio, ethereal landscape... 

But. Big huge giant BUT. Detail retrieval exceeds my HD800's across the spectrum. Instrument separation and clarity in complex pieces does as well. Dynamics for days.

Not a review of the IE 900. They, are very good. More a statement of awe in regards to how good the Mainline is. High impedance into HD800 is amazing. Low impedance into IE 900 is shockingly good if not for the intimacy. Shocking enough to realize the HD800 is the weak link in a system that I'd never heard bested by anything short of the HE 1. ( I've never heard Emperyan or Utopia  ) 

Its no wonder Bottlehead has never upgraded this amp, it is magical. ( I've upgraded the amp, Mundorf Supreme Silver in Oil, whatever tube both JamieMcC and Loquah liked ... the capacitors mattered most. ).


----------



## supermage

JamieMcC said:


> I've never heard the Stratus but am well aware of its reputation.
> 
> Maven86 the sbaf reviewers last comment on the headfi thread was.
> 
> ...


I appreciate it


----------



## smodtactical (Feb 15, 2022)

I am looking for a warm amp with lots of tubeyness and richness. I got a BH Crack coming but any other amps in the BH lineup that you guys think I should be looking at? Hopefully will be modding down the road as well. This is for hd800S mainly and 650 + atticus.


----------



## Lickumms

smodtactical said:


> I am looking for a warm amp with lots of tubeyness and richness. I got a BH Crack coming but any other amps in the BH lineup that you guys think I should be looking at? Hopefully will be modding down the road as well. This is for hs800S mainly and 650 + atticus.


The Crack is pretty much the most tubey sound amp they have. The Mainline preforms like a Solid state with some tube flavor, not nearly as much tubeyness as the Crack.


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## RestoredSparda

Lickumms said:


> The Crack is pretty much the most tubey sound amp they have. The Mainline preforms like a Solid state with some tube flavor, not nearly as much tubeyness as the Crack.


THIS 

Also, if you are into lots of warmth and "tube sound" then I would steer clear of the Speedball upgrade for your crack, and instead invest in warm caps and tubes. The Speedball improves resolution and clarity, but you will lose a bunch of that warmth you are after.


----------



## JamieMcC

Yep non speedball Crack with 3x30uf Russian paper in oil mgbo as output caps is rather nice imho something that's pretty inexpensive to try add a teflon or for increased top end sparkle and definition or a K75 bypass for a juicy more saturated midrange texture and tone.

Preferred this to the spendy Mundorf output caps fwiw.


----------



## smodtactical

Ok sounds good.

Dna is always regarded as warm and wet sounding. I wonder if a modded bottlehead amp could produce similar tone... like maybe a modded stereomour.


----------



## larcenasb

I agree with those above. Here are the four things I'd recommend to get a more tubey sound (in order of importance):

1) Leave out the Speedball upgrade.
2) Get an old-stock U.S. RCA 6AS7G (the 6080 in comparison sounds drier and more closed in).
3) Get a 6SN7-to-12AU7 6.3V adapter along with an old-stock U.S. 6SN7GT (much more even tone with fatter mid-bass and more body to the midrange).
4) Change the electrolytic output caps to 100uF 250V film caps (Audyn Q4, Dayton, et al.)


----------



## Lickumms

larcenasb said:


> I agree with those above. Here are the four things I'd recommend to get a more tubey sound (in order of importance):
> 
> 1) Leave out the Speedball upgrade.
> 2) Get an old-stock U.S. RCA 6AS7G (the 6080 in comparison sounds drier and more closed in).
> ...


Personally I could recommend a Winged C 6H13C over a 6AS7G for the most tube sound possible.


----------



## Haidar

Can a more saturated or tubey sound be achieved by changing the Crack's transformer to a different one?


----------



## Lickumms

Haidar said:


> Can a more saturated or tubey sound be achieved by changing the Crack's transformer to a different one?


I mean, yeah, but the sound gain will be very, very minimal compare to just tube swapping.


----------



## Lickumms

Wouldn't replacing the caps take away some of the tube sound? I mean replacing the caps on the mainline made the sound more resolving and technically more precise over the stock caps.


----------



## DenverW

Lickumms said:


> Wouldn't replacing the caps take away some of the tube sound? I mean replacing the caps on the mainline made the sound more resolving and technically more precise over the stock caps.


Depends on the caps to some extent.  Some mundorfs I found a bit lusher than stock.


----------



## Fidelity King

Has anyone tried their electrostatic amp? Curious to know how it sounds with Stax lambda headphones


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Holy screws, Batman!


----------



## Menkau-ra

I might have take my Mainline on an airplane one day. Are there any good travel cases like ZMF Pendant being shipped with?


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> I might have take my Mainline on an airplane one day. Are there any good travel cases like ZMF Pendant being shipped with?


Oof, that is a tough one.  Would you have it as carry on or checked?  I see some of the checked baggage being thrown around - I think that would be the end of your mainline no matter how well it was packaged.  As a carry on it would be better, but bulky to keep it safe.  Is it possible to ship it instead?


----------



## Menkau-ra

DenverW said:


> Oof, that is a tough one.  Would you have it as carry on or checked?  I see some of the checked baggage being thrown around - I think that would be the end of your mainline no matter how well it was packaged.  As a carry on it would be better, but bulky to keep it safe.  Is it possible to ship it instead?


I don't really want to ship it. Carry on makes sense. But need something good to protect.


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> I don't really want to ship it. Carry on makes sense. But need something good to protect.


Are you moving or going on a trip for a bit?


----------



## Menkau-ra

DenverW said:


> Are you moving or going on a trip for a bit?


Don't know yet. But I will need the traveling case any way.


----------



## jonathan c

Pack / carry the tubes separately?


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> Don't know yet. But I will need the traveling case any way.


Gotcha.  Just remember to secure the top plate to the frame with painters tape (or other tape that removes easily without residue) and to move it with the top plate facing down.  Obviously tubes and shields are removed.  The internals would rest down on the face plate.


----------



## Menkau-ra

That kind of case I want. This is ZMF Pendant. Where do I buy those?


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> That kind of case I want. This is ZMF Pendant. Where do I buy those?


Seahorse and pelican are two manufacturers of cases like that.


----------



## SDBiotek

There are tons of options online, just search for weatherproof cases that have customizable foam inserts. _You need to check if the internal case dimensions have at least a few inches to spare for length,, width,, and height,, since you need to allow some space for the foam. Monoprice and Amazon have some, and probably some dj supply stores also have rugged cases._


----------



## Menkau-ra

Another question, can I run two headphones at the same time from Mainline? One from 6.35mm and another from XLR output?


----------



## Lickumms

Menkau-ra said:


> Another question, can I run two headphones at the same time from Mainline? One from 6.35mm and another from XLR output?


The Mainline doesn't out put to both at the same time. You can have two headphones plugged in and switch between them with the output switch.


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## Menkau-ra (Jun 1, 2022)

Lickumms said:


> The Mainline doesn't out put to both at the same time. You can have two headphones plugged in and switch between them with the output switch.


I don't have any XLR headphones right now, but before I did plugged in both and both were playing. I wasn't sure if it was safe.
I just tried to use the balanced switch, the 6.35 just gets a few DB quieter, but still works.


----------



## Lickumms

Menkau-ra said:


> I don't have any XLR headphones right now, but before I did plugged in both and both were playing. I wasn't sure if it was safe.
> I just tried to use the balanced switch, the 6.35 just gets a few DB quieter, but still works.


Interesting, I thought the switch was a toggle between the XLR and 6.35.  I never tried plugging into both at the same time though.


----------



## Lickumms

I keep a 1/4" to 1/8" plugged into the 1/4" jack at all times and haven't noticed any problems with running the XLR with the that plugged in at the same time.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Lickumms said:


> Interesting, I thought the switch was a toggle between the XLR and 6.35.  I never tried plugging into both at the same time though.


can you try the switch?


----------



## Lickumms

Menkau-ra said:


> can you try the switch?


Huh, you are right. It does output to both at the same time. The switch only seems to affect the volume of the unbalanced output though. Making it a little louder when set to unbalanced.


----------



## Lickumms

I guess the unbalanced switch just directs a little more power into the unbalanced out put.


----------



## DenverW

Yes, you can do both, but from a post from BH on their forums it’s not optimal.


----------



## Lickumms

DenverW said:


> Yes, you can do both, but from a post from BH on their forums it’s not optimal.


I was looking on the BH Forum to try and find a concrete answer on it.


----------



## DenverW

Lickumms said:


> I was looking on the BH Forum to try and find a concrete answer on it.


I believe it was just a question posted in one of the threads that doc answered, not a full thread about it, but I honestly can’t remember.  I remember something about the power being lessened with the xlr and 6.35 outputs connected at once. All from failing memory, though .


----------



## Lickumms

DenverW said:


> I believe it was just a question posted in one of the threads that doc answered, not a full thread about it, but I honestly can’t remember.  I remember something about the power being lessened with the xlr and 6.35 outputs connected at once. All from failing memory, though .


Haha, I had just posted the question there about an hour ago. So you were probably reading the response to my question.


----------



## DenverW

Oh, this was at least a year ago, let me know if there is any different answer!

My memory isn’t THAT bad .


----------



## Lickumms

DenverW said:


> Oh, this was at least a year ago, let me know if there is any different answer!
> 
> My memory isn’t THAT bad .


They said running both at the same time is fine.

"It's unlikely that you're gong to cause damage unless you are listening to something like the HD650 and you have the other headphones still plugged in, as this will produce a very loud listening level out of the HD650.

The balanced/unbalanced switch moves grounds around but otherwise leaves the circuit alone."


----------



## GPJ7

Menkau-ra said:


> I might have take my Mainline on an airplane one day. Are there any good travel cases like ZMF Pendant being shipped with?



I want pics showing you listening to it @ 35,000 ft .... you would be legend!


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 1, 2022)

.


----------



## jonathan c

GPJ7 said:


> I want pics showing you listening to it @ 35,000 ft .... you would be legend!


Be the first Mile-hier Head-Fier….😏🤣…


----------



## GPJ7

BH "Airline"  ..... like the sound of that .... replace those stupid 5V USB's on jets with 120V AC recep's ..... YES!


----------



## GPJ7

I bet people would sh@t their pants if I broke out my Crack and I laid 'er down on the tray table .....


----------



## DenverW

GPJ7 said:


> I bet people would sh@t their pants if I broke out my Crack and I laid 'er down on the tray table .....


Stewardess....he seems to have a 1920s bomb!


----------



## jonathan c

DenverW said:


> Stewardess....he seems to have a 1920s bomb!


How will the crew react to TS 5998 or to WE 421…😳😳😳?


----------



## DenverW

jonathan c said:


> How will the crew react to TS 5998 or to WE 421…😳😳😳?


Oh no, it’s a bomb!  And it’s using horrible GE stock tubes!!!!!


----------



## GPJ7

jonathan c said:


> How will the crew react to TS 5998 or to WE 421…😳😳😳?



My guess? .... it would not be good Jon ....


----------



## GPJ7

DenverW said:


> Oh no, it’s a bomb!  And it’s using horrible GE stock tubes!!!!!



I wonder if they would just say "Oh thank God, it's just those lousy GE Stock tubes .... no worries" ....


----------



## Menkau-ra

Lickumms said:


> They said running both at the same time is fine.
> 
> "It's unlikely that you're gong to cause damage unless you are listening to something like the HD650 and you have the other headphones still plugged in, as this will produce a very loud listening level out of the HD650.
> 
> The balanced/unbalanced switch moves grounds around but otherwise leaves the circuit alone."


so what's the point of having that switch?

now I have another question: the impedance switch, what does it supposed to do? When I switch it I don't hear any differences


----------



## Lickumms

Menkau-ra said:


> so what's the point of having that switch?
> 
> now I have another question: the impedance switch, what does it supposed to do? When I switch it I don't hear any differences


What headphones are you using? 
The Un/Blanced switch just moves the grounds so there is a balanced ground for the XLR output, which can give a very light improvement to the sound on XLR out.  
The impedance switch is just to help regulate the power when using low ohm headphones. Switching it to low impedance can help clean up the noise floor on super sensitive IEMs and headphones.  Really, unless you are using super sensitive headphones/IEMs you won't notice any difference on the vast majority of headphones between high and low gain, besides maybe a slight boost in volume when switching to high gain.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Lickumms said:


> What headphones are you using?
> The Un/Blanced switch just moves the grounds so there is a balanced ground for the XLR output, which can give a very light improvement to the sound on XLR out.
> The impedance switch is just to help regulate the power when using low ohm headphones. Switching it to low impedance can help clean up the noise floor on super sensitive IEMs and headphones.  Really, unless you are using super sensitive headphones/IEMs you won't notice any difference on the vast majority of headphones between high and low gain, besides maybe a slight boost in volume when switching to high gain.


Right now I am using Hemps


----------



## Lickumms (Jun 1, 2022)

Menkau-ra said:


> Right now I am using Hemps


Run the Grados and most headphones under 100ohms run it on low impedance. Here is what BH say on the impedance difference.

"For headphones which are very sensitive (Grados, IEMs, etc), the low impedance setting will provide a blacker background.  It will also provide lower distortion and better damping, especially into low impedance headphones.

The high impedance setting will provide more power out of the amp provided the headphones used are not low impedance headphones.  The trade-off here is a slightly higher noise floor and a bit less damping and potentially more distortion.  If you are using a 100+ ohm headphone on the high impedance setting, odds are you won't hear the difference in noise, nor the increase in THD and decrease in damping.

If you have super sensitive 16 ohm IEMs, you may very well be able to here these changes more easily."

Basically you won't noticed a difference unless you are using super low or super high ohm headphones.


----------



## jonathan c

GPJ7 said:


> I wonder if they would just say "Oh thank God, it's just those lousy GE Stock tubes .... no worries" ....


“Holy cr#p, this aircraft has GE parts in the engines”….😳😳😱😱….


----------



## larcenasb

You mean just a Pelican case? If so, you can find them on Pelican's official website and on Amazon.


----------



## GPJ7

Still trying to figure out why a case is needed. Just bring that badboy straight on!  Light 'er up!


----------



## Menkau-ra

If Mainline has balanced switch does it mean that I can use balanced output from my DAC to the Mainline with XLR to RCA adapters?


----------



## Lickumms (Jun 2, 2022)

Menkau-ra said:


> If Mainline has balanced switch does it mean that I can use balanced output from my DAC to the Mainline with XLR to RCA adapters?


RCAs are non balanced. Also, I'm pretty sure, the whole amp is not balanced, so the only thing using an adapter would do is allow a little more power to the input, XLRs typically have more power on DAC outputs, making the volume a little louder.

If you want to try it I recommend these adapters, they are great. I use them to run from my XLR switcher to the Mainline.

Adapters : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/325...st.0.0.21ef1802I06Ut6&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt

Switcher: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/225...st.0.0.21ef1802I06Ut6&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt


----------



## Menkau-ra

Will I benefit if I run HD8xx of the balanced jack on Mainline vs SE?


----------



## Lickumms

Menkau-ra said:


> Will I benefit if I run HD8xx of the balanced jack on Mainline vs SE?


It would be a pretty minor improvement running the 8XX on the balanced. Maybe a 2-4% improvement in over all sound separation/clarity. Though running on high vs low gain should be a decent improvement in the bass and highs on the 8XX. I notice a pretty big difference between high and low gain on the 800s.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Lickumms said:


> It would be a pretty minor improvement running the 8XX on the balanced. Maybe a 2-4% improvement in over all sound separation/clarity. Though running on high vs low gain should be a decent improvement in the bass and highs on the 8XX. I notice a pretty big difference between high and low gain on the 800s.


what are you running on high or low?


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> Will I benefit if I run HD8xx of the balanced jack on Mainline vs SE?


I found no difference in the two outputs, and would run based on what cable connection I had.


----------



## DenverW

Menkau-ra said:


> what are you running on high or low?


100% high for the hd800 and all headphones over 150 ohm impedance.


----------



## Lickumms

Menkau-ra said:


> what are you running on high or low?


High, it is 150ohm headphone. Anything over 100ohms run on high no matter what.


----------



## DenverW

300 ohms for the hd8xx.


----------



## Lickumms

Oh, you are right. IT is 300ohms.


----------



## DenverW (Sep 8, 2022)

@Kamsang here are the pics I promised you in the atrium thread.  As you can see, the larger Mundorf caps needed to be Tetris’d in to fit.  They’re just a bit too big to be comfortable, but they work.  The red caps are Jansen, which I picked based on their synergy with the mundorf.  Finally, Dueland bypass copper on the mundorf.  Getting those to fit based on the length of the wires was also tricky, but doable. Tight fit, but none of the components are touching or rubbing together.


----------



## JTbbb

Hello there, thought I would say hello now that I finally own a Crack, albeit a heavily modified one, after hankering several years for one.

I am not a builder, hence why several years have passed I guess, but the opportunity presented itself some time ago to have one built for me. 

My headphones are the HD800S and Utopia’s, and I really wanted to be able to use my Utopia’s if possible, and be able to switch from 6sn7’s to the Mullard ecc32’s, seeing as I have a few.

After several months of trial and error I now have my Crack, which sounds wonderful and I am really pleased with it. The brief was almost met too, by a whisker, regarding the Utopia’s. 
These headphones really do sound good with this Crack, even with deep bass from guitars etc. The only time the bass gets into trouble is with some EDM, and when there is a constant deep electronic bass in the background, whereby control is lost.
Well, I’m a happy bunny as I don’t have much of this music in my collection.
A few pics.


----------



## DenverW (Sep 27, 2022)

JTbbb said:


> Hello there, thought I would say hello now that I finally own a Crack, albeit a heavily modified one, after hankering several years for one.
> 
> I am not a builder, hence why several years have passed I guess, but the opportunity presented itself some time ago to have one built for me.
> 
> ...


That’s lovely!  With a dash of overkill .


----------



## JTbbb

DenverW said:


> That’s lovely!  With a dash of overkill .


I like things over engineered 😀


----------



## JamieMcC

Noticed this Korean Sex video 😂 English subtitles, happy ending 🤣🤣


----------



## Tom-s

Shown on the previous page: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bot...ck-sex-mainline.683012/page-140#post-17165968

Was the brother of this amp I have for sale.

With the same configuration build for ECC32 and 6SN7GT as optional driver tubes. This via a switch on the Speedball small board.

See pictures.

Link to listing: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...80-full-option-build.37743/#hfc-comment-56232


----------



## mfadio

Any tips for taping the transformers to paint the bells on a S.E.X. kit? Just regular ol' blue tape?


----------



## Armaegis

mfadio said:


> Any tips for taping the transformers to paint the bells on a S.E.X. kit? Just regular ol' blue tape?



If you're careful you can unscrew and take it off... but if you're unsure of that, then yeah good quality painter's tape is the way to go.


----------



## MikeO3

mfadio said:


> Any tips for taping the transformers to paint the bells on a S.E.X. kit? Just regular ol' blue tape?


I put the wires in a baggie and ty-rap both ends then blue tape around the baggie to complete the top up to inside the hole.


----------

