# PSB or Wharfedale Budget bookshelves?



## ooheadsoo

I have a deal from yawaonline for either a pair of PSB Image 2B for a fairly average price, or a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 for a little more than half that price. I will be powering these speakers off an old NAD 3220, 20wpc power envelope circuitry. Which set of speakers should I get? Will the Wharfedales be too much for my amp to handle? Nominal impedance is 6 ohms on them and they have a low sensitivity at 86db. I do like the option to bi-amp them though. (Not that I have a second vintage NAD on hand or know when I could get one.) The PSB's are more sensitive, reportedly easy to place (I have bad placement possibilities) and are magnetically shielded. I can't confirm if the Wharfedales are shielded. The company brochure shows a shield in the pictures but does not mention shielding any where. I would like the option of using the speakers straddling my monitor. 

 FYI, my budget is hopefully much less than $250. The PSB price I have from Yawa is just over $250 by a small chunk of dough.


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## hempcamp

I never cared too much for the Wharfedale. The PSB Image series of speakers really, really impressed me though.

 --Chris


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## ooheadsoo

How bad would I feel downgrading to an Image 1B? The bass isn't THAT much worse, is it?


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## SunByrne

Quote:


 _Originally posted by ooheadsoo _
*How bad would I feel downgrading to an Image 1B? The bass isn't THAT much worse, is it? * 
 

It's enough that you'd notice for sure. I listened to both in the shop and bass resposne was IMO the only significant difference between the 1B and the 2B in terms of sound.

 (Note that I actually own the 1B's, but just as surrounds in my HT setup.)

 Haven't heard the Wharfdales, but have head people claim they're the greatest thing since sliced bread, and other say things like *hepcamp* did. I'd listen somewhere before buying those.


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## 00940

the wharfedale are a little marvel to my ears. They certainly let the mission m71 and m73 in the dust, with a few others. They have this vivid soundstage, peaceful midrange and charming highs I've rarely heard at this point price.

 But 20W is certainly a problem. If your room isn't small, if your amp is not fast and alive (I kinda doubt of the nad abilities under this respect), you're asking for bad sound.


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## ooheadsoo

Yes with the insensitivity of the Wharfedales, I think they're out of the equation. The PSB impedance is also a nasty 6 ohms but at least the sensitivity is a bit higher.

 I was reminded in my research of another option: Ed Frias's extensively modded BIC DV-62si. Runs me $250 on the button. The sensitivity is 90db and impedance is nominally 8ohms, much better than the PSB's. All the reviews I've read on it were good. Hard to say without auditioning though, and it will be near impossible for me to do so. I've read some 30 5 star reviews on audioreview.com.


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## markl

I love PSB speakers. Go for it!


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## Tuberoller

I was using Wharfedale 8.2 for a bit and thought they were good for the money. That was before I heard the PSB speakers. The Wharfedale's are,IMO,very much overated. They sound good,but some of the almost unbelievable reviews they get are suspect at best. It seems the British press started this frenzy and once the speakers got out in people's hands the truth was bit different. Don't get me wrong,I think they are good speakers,but you will certainly do much better with the PSBs. Bass depth and definition is no comparison,you would really have to be biased or hard of hearing to miss that. Soundstaging is also much more realistic with the PSB and imaging is very good for such an inexpensive speaker. 

 After some of the Glowing reviews I have read for speakers like the Mission Mini-monitors(the entire line of them) the Wharfedales and KEF minis,I don't trust the British press at all for speaker reviews. I don't think it's anything bad,but our listening tastes are very far apart. I think most British designed small speakers are meant to be placed in small rooms,close to walls, and it seems the British audio press is accustomed to this.


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## Tom M

Go with the psb image 2b.


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## stymie miasma

Haven't heard the Wharfedales, but am very happy with my PSB Image 2Bs. Also, there was a definate improvement in the 2B versus the 1B when I auditioned in-store - most obvious benefits being a 'fuller' sound (less 'boxy') and better bass response. I don't think you will be disappointed with the PSBs, especially with the NAD amp, but do be aware that the metal dome tweeters may accenuate any brightness in your system.


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## ooheadsoo

One reason I liked the PSB's is because I hoped the agressive highs would balance with the rolled off treble on the NAD.

 I forgot to mention that the best placement I can use (and I'm not sure if I can use this placement because these speakers are so heavy) is to mount them on a wall up above my desk in a corner of my room and tilt them down to point at my ears. Sitting them on my desk would probably ruin the imaging. That's why I've mainly been considering front ported enclosures.

 Assuming I have studs in my wall strong enough to support these speakers, the wall mounts will cost me another $50 :horror:

 Looks like everyone's a fan of the PSB so far.

 Any opinions on the Frias modded Bics?


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## ooheadsoo

Almost forgot, now that i'm firmly entrenched at the top end of my price range, here are a few more options I'd love to get opinions on. The Athena AS-B2's suddenly look very good.


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## bundee1

There is no point in getting speakers that big if you're going to hang them and point them down. You wont get the best out of them. Check out Acoustic Energys 2.1 system. Its gotten great reviews from British and American press.It comes with a 2 satellites and a powered subwoofer. $399.


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## BlindTiger

Speaking about the Athena's which are made in China now.
 How bout the Sound Dynamics line.
 I had the RTS-3 and the RTS-7 both are very good sounding speakers. The RTS7 doesn't even need a sub. The sound was very smooth, I guess due to their soft dome tweeters.
 I kinda wish I still had them.


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## ooheadsoo

They won't be pointing straight down at me of course. It would be at a 30 degree angle or so, and when I sit back in my chair and lean back, I think they would be lined up with my ears within 5 degrees. Unforunately, my desk is designed so that I sit at the far left of the table, and the whole table isn't very wide. If I placed the speakers a good 2-3 feet apart, I wouldn't be very close to the sweet spot, not to mention being way to close to the speakers in general for a non near field set. Of course, my situation in this room won't be permanent, just for the forseeable future. I would like to have a set of speakers I will genuinely be happy with and not feel the bug bite when I get a more powerful amp. 

 Edit: Bundee, I already have a set similar to the AE Aego 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit 507: Another option seems to be the AE Aegis 2 towers. On ebay for $200.


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## 00940

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Tuberoller _
*I was using Wharfedale 8.2 for a bit and thought they were good for the money. That was before I heard the PSB speakers. The Wharfedale's are,IMO,very much overated.* 
 

On european boards, glowing reviews aren't for the 8.2 . The good speakers to pick are the 8.1, the smallest ones. They sound far better, if less powerfull in the bass (of course, they're smaller). The 8.2 are mostly adviced as home theater speakers, while the 8.1 are adviced as small hifi speakers. It's a categorization that sounded right to my ears when i was shopping.

 Anyway, the case for wharfedale is closed in here.


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## bundee1

Look for the AE EVO 1 or the EVO3 the 2 gets the worst reviews of the bunch.


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## ooheadsoo

Actually guys, in a sick sad twist of events, I think I have been "convinced" to go for the cheapest speakers I possibly can. That said I still want as hi-fi a set of speakers I possibly can get. The Wharfedales at $140 are now probably at the top end of my price range. Searching for used deals is rough...

 Some Wharfe 8.2's popped up on ebay for a decent price all of a sudden. Are these really that bad?


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## soupy

I'm gonna throw in a recommendation for the axiom m2i's if you're looking for something on the neutral side (at least what the graphs show), tho some say axiom's tend to sound a bit bright, it depends on your system I guess.


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## stymie miasma

Given you budget and space confinements, maybe the PSB Alpha series might be worth considering. MacDEF and others have sung the praises of the original PSB Alpha Minis - in particular when paired with NAD components (The NAD L40 specifically as it came bundled with the Alpha Minis).


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## ooheadsoo

The alpha was one of my original choices but was later dismissed since I would be placing them so close to the wall. (rear ported)

 That being said, I am now considering them again, but am finding them hard to find for a good price, having turned down a perfectly awesome offer to buy a pair earlier in my search.


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## bundee1

Peep these:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...6537678&2&3&4&


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## ooheadsoo

Nice find bundee, must have been posted this afternoon since I didn't see it this morning. Hm, however, they're in CA, and so am I (sales tax -_-) At this price, do you think it would be better than the Wharfedale 8.1's?

 I just noticed that he has some 2b's for $195. Why does he have to be so close to me, yet so far? He's some 150 miles away and I doubt I can spare the time to make the trip.

 Edit #234: The Axioms do look quite good but I'm not too sure on how to get around to finding a good price on them. No local dealer seems to have them and I haven't seen any on agon or ebay.



 EDIT #235: All of a sudden Ed Frias's BIC DV62si crossover modified speakers start to look good again. I can get them for under $100 on ebay and he charges $30 for the crossover modification. The only thing is that I feel like it's a poor deal when he offers a completely new crossover for the speakers in addition to 5 way binding posts, but I can't afford that one at $250+ship.


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## ooheadsoo

Found another potential deal (if it's not long gone.) Paradigm Titan for $109


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## bundee1

That is a pretty good deal. I would get the PSB over the Axioms and paradigms because I hate bright speakers. I also owned 2 pairs of PSB Alphas which were my first "hi-fi" purchase.


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## MacDEF

I've heard a lot of small speakers, and I still haven't found any that sound better (to me) than the PSB Alphas for the price. What sets them apart from most of the other small speakers I've heard is their sense of warmth and musicality. Many small speakers are bright. Many others make it obvious that they don't have much low end. The Alphas don't fall victim to either of these faults.

 The fact that you're going to be using an NAD amp is even more reason to get PSBs -- NAD and PSB make a great match.


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## pandasonic

i own the Ed Frias Modified DV62's and they sound very very good, probably one of the top 3 speakers in their price range. I have the highly modified version ($250); the sound is very rich and realistic. I have not heard the stock ones or the ones with the $30 crossover mod so I cannot pass judgement on those. Many people who come over and listen to these speakers are blown away by the price/quality ratio. The speakers I've compared these to are the Diamond 8.1's, Paradigm Mini-Monitors, Athena BS-1s, and M-Audio Studiophile BX5.

 The sound is very balanced and the bass is quite good on my cheap-o Sherwood reciever...but they're definitely not getting to their full potential =/


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## ooheadsoo

I just dropped by Yawa today and picked up some PSB image 2b's. The very moment I decided to get them I was filled with regret because THEY ARE SO ABSOLUTELY FRIGGIN BIG. They're GIGANTIC. I now think the wharfedales would have made me happier just by virtue of being so much smaller!! That being said, the people at Yawa are wonderful and I feel bad about returning the speakers so I don't think I will unless they sound funny with my speaker placement. Even if they do, I think I would rather sell it on ebay as a mint pair opened just to check functionality. They're still setting things up in their new Chino location and I didn't get to hear the speakers before buying. That said I still haven't heard them on my rig yet.

 Edit: Oh yes, they gave me the standard Yawa good deal but the Wharfedales are just soooo much cheaper...If I sold the PSB's I wouldn't hesitate to go buy the whafedales at yawa to give them some more business (without letting them know I sold the speakers so that they don't feel bad.)


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## bundee1

Give us a heads up on how they sound, and think about selling them here as well.


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## ooheadsoo

Just some brief impressions. At first I didn't think it sounded all that great, especially the bass, which I thought was exceptionally wooly and sloppy. Then I popped a sacd in (SuperBass 2 with Ray Brown, John Clayton, and Christian McBride) and I was then suitably impressed. Now, about 2 hours later, I don't know if it's just me but the bass doesn't sound as muffled any more. I'm reasonably happy except for the size. If my 19" monitor weren't sitting on a swivel stand, they would be taller.


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## vrao81

If you do decide to return the PSB's, consider the Omage AV21. Should run you around $100 including shipping. Do a search to find a thread with info and where to buy.


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## ooheadsoo

The problem I am now faced with is that my 3220 didn't have the features I assumed it would have (couldn't find any definitive features list online.) The amp does not have A/B speaker selection nor does it have pre outs. (It doesn't have tone defeat or X-way binding posts either...) The way it is, I can't really add a subwoofer in a natural way. I had planned on adding a bass shaker to the B speaker output so that i was toggle-able. Now it would be always on, not something I would look forward to. No preout/main in means no sub wired in an elegant manner as far as I can tell. 

 Of all my speaker choices, I think the PSB's have the best bass response. Given I can no longer add a sub in a reasonable way that's not a hack job, wiring in parallel etc, I think I may stick with these speakers. If I had all those features I had originally expected, I would be sorely tempted to trade down to some cheaper smaller speakers with less bass response and get the Dayton 10" 100 watt partsexpress.com subwoofer, with the intention of getting the ascend acoustics cbm-170 in a year or two.

 It seems I'm in a bind until I get a better amp. If I ever get the NAD 320BEE, I may consider selling off the PSB's and getting the ascend cbm-170's with a sub. This seems to be the most reasonable route to take.


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## pbirkett

Quote:


 _Originally posted by 00940 _
*On european boards, glowing reviews aren't for the 8.2 . The good speakers to pick are the 8.1, the smallest ones. They sound far better, if less powerfull in the bass (of course, they're smaller). The 8.2 are mostly adviced as home theater speakers, while the 8.1 are adviced as small hifi speakers. It's a categorization that sounded right to my ears when i was shopping.

 Anyway, the case for wharfedale is closed in here. * 
 

I might have got in a bit late to this thread, but I used to own the 8.2, and on a forum I frequented, many people have heard both the 8.2 and 8.1. Personally, I would be inclined to agree the Diamonds are very overrated, the press did indeed make them out to be great speakers, when in fact, they were not. Spend just a little more, and you have speakers which, and no exagerration, will blow these into the weeds. In fact, second hand might be the way to go, you'll get a better speaker for less.

 As for the 8.1 v 8.2, well everyone who I know whos compared them thinks the 8.2 is by FAR superior to the 8.1. I will not even repeat the language that is often used to describe those...


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## 00940

well, i guess it's to each one its own in this hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I didn't like any mission speakers i've heard so far and from your profile (cans and music), I guess we're in search of different sounds. That's why ooheadsoo should listen as much as he can before buying anything.


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