# $23 speakers at Best Buy that measure well and sound good



## Wodgy

Just a heads-up for anyone interested in decent speakers for a very low price. Best Buy is selling these for about $23 each ($46/pair):
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085354138

 The construction is very good for the price, with a bevelled front baffle and a curved back:





 What's more, some of the speaker DIY guys I respect (AJ, John Krutke) have both listened to and measured these speakers and found they're a good value for the price. On axis, they're not perfect... but like coaxials tend to be, their power response is more even than a conventional MT speaker.

 Anyway, I haven't heard them myself, but given the price, construction quality, measured technical competence, and positive subjective feedback on these, I thought I'd point them out to Head-Fiers. You probably won't go wrong if you're looking for an inexpensive set of speakers. (Plus, you're guaranteed they at least measure better than Bose and Zu Druids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 Here's a diyaudio thread about them:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1


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## soundboy

You've beat me to posting about this Best Buy speaker, Wodgy. There were, at last count, 3 threads on this speaker over at audioasylum.com.

 I am going to get a pair and try them out.


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## soundboy

Looks like the speaker in question was manufactured by a company called Radiient (check out the surround speakers in the Helios series). The founders of the company include the co-inventer of the HDMI interface.

 And here's the B&W N805 lookalikes for $200.00/pair


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_Looks like the speaker in question was manufactured by a company called Radiient (check out the surround speakers in the Helios series). The founders of the company include the co-inventer of the HDMI interface.

 And here's the B&W N805 lookalikes for $200.00/pair_

 

Busted!


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_Looks like the speaker in question was manufactured by a company called Radiient (check out the surround speakers in the Helios series). The founders of the company include the co-inventer of the HDMI interface.

 And here's the B&W N805 lookalikes for $200.00/pair_

 

Interesting.

 Just so no one is confused by your second comment, those are *not* the B&W 805 clones that have been floating around on AudioGon for some time under the name "Aural Ersatz" or "TAD 803" and imported by Bizzy Bee. i.e. Not these ones:




 Those are a scam. They are an attempt to rip off the look of the B&W 805, contain cheap drivers, no crossover, and do not measure well. All they have going for them is the look.

 The speakers you linked to from Radiient are a different product. I doubt they intended to generate speakers that look like B&W 805s. First off, they're much uglier, but moreover, the 805 is a conventional MT speaker while these are coaxials with a supertweeter. No way would they have gone to the expense of a coaxial driver if the goal was just to rip off the 805s. Also, judging from the $20 Best Buy speakers, some decent engineering may have gone into them.


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## soundboy

Just located a review of Radiient's N805 look-alikes. May give you an insight into how those $46.00/pair speakers may sound.

 Edit: Here's a review of the Helios speaker system. Keep in mind that the surround speakers in this system are the ones available at Best Buy for $46.00/pair.


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## sbulack

WOW!!! Another one of "Wodgy's Sweet Spots(TM)". I've ordered a pair of these from BB. BTW, I'm still (very happily) using the Terratec EWX 24/96 sound card that you recommended a while back for its quality and value. You surely CAN pick 'em (that's what happens when product picks are based on knowledge and experience, measurements that make sense, and a good ear to boot). I realize that you've said you've not heard these Insignia(TM) speakers, but I'd like to replace a pair of speakers with a "scooped out" FR that I use in a small room, and I've learned (from a number of successful previous purchases) that a Wodgy Sweet Spot is a terrible opportunity to waste. Thanks again, Wodgy!

 When these speakers arrive, and I've had a chance to hear them, I'll contribute my impressions of them to this thread.


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## tedtropy

How well would these work as replacements for the cheapie speakers that came with an Onkyo home theater systems, specifically the HT-S570? Granted, the wouldn't exactly be tone-matched to the center speaker anymore, but would it be a considerable improvement on the left/right and possibly rear surround end? Currently the front and rear left/right speakers are the 100W peak 8ohm one it came with. Thanks.


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## ooheadsoo

For the price, I'd replace them all.


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## YamiTenshi

I was actually looking for a new pair of computer speakers. Would these be overkill for a small office/bedroom setting?


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## milkpowder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_And here's the B&W N805 lookalikes for $200.00/pair_

 

Apparently, these lookalikes have an advanced oblate quasitriangular antiresonant (OQA™) cabinet design, time-aligned phase-coherent coaxial midbass/high frequency drivers and a low-diffraction hybrid multilayer front baffle. I mean, this must be the greatest load of marketing BS I have ever heard in my life!


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *milkpowder* 
_Apparently, these lookalikes have an advanced oblate quasitriangular antiresonant (OQA™) cabinet design, time-aligned phase-coherent coaxial midbass/high frequency drivers and a low-diffraction hybrid multilayer front baffle. I mean, this must be the greatest load of marketing BS I have ever heard in my life!_

 

Once again, they don't look much like the B&W 805.

 Cutting through the marketing, the "quasitriangular" cabinet just refers to the shape, which has no parallel surfaces, which helps to eliminate standing waves. The curves are actually done with deep kerf cuts, which isn't optimal, but what does one expect for $23 each? A fun mod would be to fill the kerfed cuts with a mixture of wood clue and sawdust.

 These are time-aligned. That's not BS. It's easy to do because the acoustic center of the tweeter is pushed back.

 The front baffle is low diffraction because the edges are bevelled and because the tweeter is waveguide-loaded, both of which eliminate edge diffraction anomalies on axis. I have no idea what the multilayer claim refers to.


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## ooheadsoo

Wasn't the baffle made of 2 sheets of 5/8" mdf? There's your multilayer.


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## classicalguy

Has anyone listened to these speakers, preferably with a T-Amp? How do they sound?


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## soundboy

No T-amp though....just Marantz CD player, Parasound pre and Adcom poer amp.






 Of course, it's not my system.


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## so_cal_forever

I'm very curious how well the floorstanding models perform. The 5-speaker package looks good, but I'm curious how they'd stand up to a set of Onix XL-S...


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## soundboy

Thread discussing Insignia vs. AV123.com's x-ls


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## ooheadsoo

Soundboy, thanks for the link. Danny picked up on something that Zaph didn't specifically mention re: the peak around 800hz which admittedly looks less bad on Zaph's plots.


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## soundboy

No problem, ooheadsoo.

 The thread has an interesting post on the thickness of the enclosure. Still, for $46.00/pair, these Insignia speakers sound like quite a bargain.

 Are you planning to pick up a pair?


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## incognitoedleon

Here's a pretty long thread on them with some impressions for those interested.

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/v...akers&m=226415


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## ooheadsoo

I won't be getting any of these any time soon. I don't have the need for them. If I did have the application, I would totally do so - the price is right. As it is, my last speaker kit cost me well over a grand and I haven't finished it yet...


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## classicalguy

Those discussions are quite interesting. I don't really understand the point of comparing these under $50 speakers with AV-123's over $200 speakers. That's 4x the price. It would be like comparing AV123's 200+ speakers with top performing $800 speakers. Not apples to apples. 

 Besides, the AV123 speakers have issues (1) out of stock, (2) $200 plus shipping, (3) no grills yet, (4) not efficient enough to drive adequately with a T-Amp. Also, they are large - maybe too big for most desktops.

 These might be ideal for a desktop speaker coupled a T-Amp. The coherent source of coax would be good for close-in listening, and I assume the directional problems would not be harmful in a close-in listening environment.

 I'm a real cheapskate. I love cheap stuff that sounds good. This looks like it would be worth trying. Also, there are already crossover and case mods. I hope they go back down to $40 per pair! A $40 speaker + a $25 T-Amp + a $10 power supply for the T-amp = a system for well under $100. That sounds promissing.

 So, those of you who have heard them, speak.


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## ooheadsoo

Funny you should mention that because the X-LS is fully competitive with most sub $1000 speakers, especially those with large dealer networks.


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## YamiTenshi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_I'm a real cheapskate. I love cheap stuff that sounds good. This looks like it would be worth trying. Also, there are already crossover and case mods. I hope they go back down to $40 per pair! A $40 speaker + a $25 T-Amp + a $10 power supply for the T-amp = a system for well under $100. That sounds promissing._

 

I'm thinking along similar lines expect I'll also need to spend a little money getting a new soundcard. But in the end it should still come down under $100.


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## ooheadsoo

A little expensive, but a lot of good parts for the money and some of you might be interested because of the coaxial aspect of this speaker: http://www.gr-research.com/insignia.htm


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## classicalguy

"Funny you should mention that because the X-LS is fully competitive with most sub $1000 speakers, especially those with large dealer networks."

 I've never heard the AV123 speakers, but their website has some of the features of a cult. It's heavy on marketing hype, while the company has been slow to deliver announced products. Personally, I very much doubt that the X-LS sounds as good as top notch $1,000 speakers. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that you may have been drinking the cool-aid. I'm not doubting that it's a good pair of speakers. But isn't it enough that it's the best speaker in its price class?

 I thought the same thing when people were saying that the T-Amp sounds better than multi- thousand dollar amps. Then there were people saying it sounds terrible. Too much hype in both directions. A little sober moderation would be a good thing on these boards.

 I've been very much enjoying some of the new cheap audio products that have come out recently: T-Amps and Koss KSC-75 phones are two examples of great sounding inexpensive products. Is this speaker another one? I wish people who have heard them would give their opinions without so much unnecessary hype.


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## ooheadsoo

Forget the website. Consider the parts the speaker is made of. Sourced yourself, the cost of parts for the drivers and crossover is close to $150+ship (these drivers are known, a custom design built by Peerless.) The cost of the cabinet, were you to build it yourself is probably $50 for the 3/4" mdf and veneer and glue - provided you have the tools and a few dozens of hours. Price for the veneered cabinet built for you by a third party is probably in the $120-170+ship range for a onesy twosy sale. Then consider the xover designer, Danny Richie, who designs speakers ranging from the $200 X-LS to the $15,000 Epiphany Audio 12-12, who is a solid, experienced engineer with an anechoic chamber. 

 Then consider that it is well known amongst those who have cared to research the subject that most mass market speakers in the $1000-$1500 range and under use similar or cheaper parts, (and they won't even show you how their speakers measure) and it's not hard to imagine that the X-LS is comparable. I won't argue subjective listening impressions, just the numbers.

 Of course there are tons exceptions. My point was simply that there _are_ many speakers in the $1k ballpark that the X-LS can compete with. I realize I said "most." I am referring to typical mass market offerings.

 Btw, I don't own, and will most likely never own any AV123 speakers.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_"Funny you should mention that because the X-LS is fully competitive with most sub $1000 speakers, especially those with large dealer networks."

 I've never heard the AV123 speakers, but their website has some of the features of a cult. It's heavy on marketing hype, while the company has been slow to deliver announced products. Personally, I very much doubt that the X-LS sounds as good as top notch $1,000 speakers. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that you may have been drinking the cool-aid. I'm not doubting that it's a good pair of speakers. But isn't it enough that it's the best speaker in its price class?

 I thought the same thing when people were saying that the T-Amp sounds better than multi- thousand dollar amps. Then there were people saying it sounds terrible. Too much hype in both directions. A little sober moderation would be a good thing on these boards._

 

The X-LS speakers are a little off-topic for this thread, but this is a good comment. I agree with your overall skepticism. The T-Amp, for instance, measures terribly (unless you're content with about half a watt of power if you need any dynamic headrooom) and I consider it not a good value, despite its absurdly low price. And it is true that AV123 is good at viral marketing, though you'll see fanboyism of the same type on forums devoted to any major manfacturer (Outlaw, Bryston, etc.).

 However, objectively speaking, the X-LS speakers are not hype. The drivers (6.5 inch Peerless of India, 1 inch Seas TDFC clone) are remarkably expensive for speakers at this price point -- at retail prices, I could barely buy the drivers and crossover components for the cost of the speakers. Of course, driver quality means nothing without proper crossover design, and from the measurements, it's clear that Danny Richie did a good job with them. 

 The cabinets are also incredible for the price... I've been into speaker building for a while now, and I can tell you that a first time speaker builder would have trouble building just the cabinets (with real maple veneer) for the price of the entire speaker, once you add up veneer, MDF, supplies, and tools, including rabetting router bit. An experienced woodworker could do it cost-effectively, but there is still a decent amount of labor involved, especially to get that level of fit and finish.

 The thing is, the X-LS are real, no compromise speakers given the specific drivers chosen. Apart from improving the quality of the crossover components (which is mostly voodoo, at times bunk), you can't push an MT bookshelf speaker that much farther, regardless of how much you pay. The cabinets are as good as most speaker builders get, the finish is high quality, the crossover is clean 2nd order LR, the drivers are quality drivers, etc. Specific people may prefer metal or similarly more rigid drivers (I don't), which would necessitate going up to a 4th order crossover (incidentally, higher orders generally sound worse than low order ones because of the off-axis behavior), but those are design decisions. The X-LS are about as good as it gets for an MT bookshelf with soft drivers, for a fantastic price. They're the real deal.

 The reason people compare them to speakers in the $750-$1000 range is because so many commercial speakers in that price range are garbage. Consider, for instance, the Totem Rainmaker ($950/pair). The midwoofer is manufactured by Peerless of India, just like the midwoofer of the X-LS, though the Totem uses a smaller driver with a more limited low end. The tweeter is a Seas metal tweeter, whereas the X-LS uses an Asian Seas clone with a soft dome. The Rainmaker has a poor crossover that doesn't measure well at all. The frequency response of the Totems has a built-in smiley face curve which may seem fun at first listen (and give the impression of more bass) but will drive you nuts on long term listening. What's worse, the Totem Rainmakers have awful cabinets. Despite the marketing press about "borosilicate damping", the reality is they use 1/2 inch or thinner MDF that doesn't pass the knuckle test. Each X-LS speaker weighs almost twice as much as each Totem Rainmaker, which says something very significant about the cabinet construction of the Rainmakers.

 I could go on and on about how bad many commercial speakers are for the price charged, but suffice to say that the X-LS are the real thing: competently designed speakers at a very impressive price. Not a lot of low cost speakers are like that; the oft-praised budget Axiom M3ti, for instance, is 50% more expensive than the X-LS, yet has a very poor crossover, low quality drivers, and moderate quality cabinets.


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## sbulack

OK, some impressions from these Insignia Bookshelf speakers which arrived at my house last night. I ran them for a few hours last night, and I've been running them for about 8 hours today. Not anywhere near run in as far as I'm concerned, but, then again, I'm not a speaker guy, and my interest is in an improvement in a pair of speakers with a "scooped out" FR that I paid WAY too much for in the mid-eighties ( $230 / pair for Boston Acoustics A60's). Already, the Insignia's have loosened up enough to be offering up an across-the-board more satisfying listening experience. Their high end is already downright lovely - airy, detailed, and nicely balanced with the mids and lows. I'm also already getting a very satisfying performance in the lows: nicely toned, abundant enough, and extended enough to offer an overall balance with which I am really happy. The mids are already more balanced with respect to the highs and lows than they've ever been with the BA A60's, and I'm fully expecting the mids to blossom even more with continued use. I'm getting really lovely decay and, at times, surprisingly engaging imaging in the sound to give my ear some real listening treats along the way. The geometry of my speaker listening is that I sit 8 - 9 feet from the speakers, which are about five feet apart and pointed toward where I sit. I'm using a vintage Pioneer SX-3400 receiver/amp to drive the Insignia's.

 I'm REALLY happy with this purchase already, and I know that the sound I'm getting will only continue to blossom as the speaker elements loosen up and settle in to their best performance. For what I paid ($46 / pair) and the improvements over my A60's that I'm already enjoying, this purchase is the Sweetest Sweet Spot I've encountered to date in my two and a half years in this hobby. So, a great big thanks to all of you who brought this amazing deal to my attention. Just a really lovely and fully ear-satisfying sound for my more relaxed (but not undiscerning) speaker listening.


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## classicalguy

T-Amp measurements are all over the map. I suspect it depends quite a bit on the power supply. I think they sound great, and there is nothing to compare them against in that price class. Measurements are relevant, but there is a lot to sound that doesn't come through in the limited measurements available. 

 I'm not dissing the X-LS speakers. I'm sure they are a good deal for the money. Although comparing what it would cost you to buy the components and design a speaker (quantity one) is not really relevant.


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## ooheadsoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_Although comparing what it would cost you to buy the components and design a speaker (quantity one) is not really relevant._

 

Perhaps it's not relevant to you, but for those who have been critically examining speakers for a long time, parts selection is relevant to a great degree. Money doesn't always determine the sound of a product, and that swings both ways.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* 
_OK, some impressions from these Insignia Bookshelf speakers which arrived at my house last night. I ran them for a few hours last night, and I've been running them for about 8 hours today. Not anywhere near run in as far as I'm concerned, but, then again, I'm not a speaker guy, and my interest is in an improvement in a pair of speakers with a "scooped out" FR that I paid WAY too much for in the mid-eighties ( $230 / pair for Boston Acoustics A60's). Already, the Insignia's have loosened up enough to be offering up an across-the-board more satisfying listening experience. Their high end is already downright lovely - airy, detailed, and nicely balanced with the mids and lows. I'm also already getting a very satisfying performance in the lows: nicely toned, abundant enough, and extended enough to offer an overall balance with which I am really happy. The mids are already more balanced with respect to the highs and lows than they've ever been with the BA A60's, and I'm fully expecting the mids to blossom even more with continued use. I'm getting really lovely decay and, at times, surprisingly engaging imaging in the sound to give my ear some real listening treats along the way. The geometry of my speaker listening is that I sit 8 - 9 feet from the speakers, which are about five feet apart and pointed toward where I sit.

 I'm REALLY happy with this purchase already, and I know that the sound I'm getting will only continue to blossom as the speaker elements loosen up and settle in to their best performance. For what I paid ($46 / pair) and the improvements over my A60's that I'm already enjoying, this purchase is the Sweetest Sweet Spot I've encountered to date in my two and a half years in this hobby. So, a great big thanks to all of you who brought this amazing deal to my attention. Just a really lovely and fully ear-satisfying sound for my more relaxed (but not undiscerning) speaker listening._

 

Sounds fantastic Sbulack! Thanks for posting your impressions. The nice thing about these speakers is that they should be relatively insensitive to room placement, and work well in smaller rooms, thanks to their uniform power response.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_T-Amp measurements are all over the map. I suspect it depends quite a bit on the power supply. I think they sound great, and there is nothing to compare them against in that price class. Measurements are relevant, but there is a lot to sound that doesn't come through in the limited measurements available._

 

Well, with the T-Amp, the measurements are pretty descriptive. The T-Amp tends to be described as having "fantastic air and detail", which is easily explained by the rising top octave. The midrange prominence reflects the amp's stock bass rolloff, and the somewhat compressed sound reflects the amp's lack of power. The power supply doesn't make that much of a measurable difference. 

 It's a decent amp for the very low price, and I don't mean to badmouth it by any means, but the reason I don't consider it a good value is because it starts to lead you on a goose chase that ends up costing you more than if you would have chosen a higher quality amp to begin with (such as the Super T-Amp, the Pioneer A-35R, or a well-chosen used amp on eBay). You need to upgrade the power supply, the coupling caps, and many people like to upgrade the pot and binding posts, and at the end of that you still have an amp with little dynamic headroom and a rising top end response. Most troublesome though is that having a non-neutral amp like that tends to make you search for speakers that compensate for the amp's deficiencies, which ends up costing you money and leaving you with non-neutral speakers. Of course, the opposite can also be true... non neutral speakers tend to drive the search for non-neutral amps that balance them out.

 I don't think the T-Amp is a bad choice though for an application where sound quality isn't paramount and where you won't be tempted to fuss with upgrades for it, such as a garage system, or an infrequently used bedroom system, or for office background music. I agree, there aren't many alternatives at that price point, even on eBay, though hitting garage and estate sales may be an option.

  Quote:


 I'm not dissing the X-LS speakers. I'm sure they are a good deal for the money. Although comparing what it would cost you to buy the components and design a speaker (quantity one) is not really relevant. 
 

It is relevant as a barometer of value. Even though we pay about 5 times (sometimes 10 times) what an OEM would pay in quantity for drivers, other costs such as MDF and veneer are within 2 times what an OEM would pay, we do not have labor expenses, and most important, DIY speakers do not have the massive markup that most commercial speakers do. That's why finding a pair of commercial speakers that are cheaper than we could build ourselves is worth mentioning. It suggests the potential for good value. I could build Totem Rainmakers for cheaper than their retail price, but I could not build the X-LS for cheaper than their retail price (even though they're superior to the Totems). That makes me have special respect for the X-LS as a good value.

 That's also one of the reasons why the DIY crowd finds these Best Buy speakers fascinating. For the price, you could throw away the drivers and use the cabinets, with the kerfed parts filled, for a project with Seas coaxials, or throw away the crossover and use it as a base for learning crossover design. The nice thing though is that you don't have to throw anything away if you're just looking for good inexpensive speakers, since the stock drivers are actually pretty good, and the crossover is decent too.


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## classicalguy

Wodgy: The T-Amp comes with no power supply at all. You either need to use AA batteries or buy a supply. It is very underpowered with the AA batteries. With a regulated 3A supply, it works great.

 I never suggested buying a T-Amp and modding it. I use it out of the box, and it sounds great with my small bookshelf speakers. It sounds much better to me than a mid-fi receiver or my old Hafler DH-220 (which was a big and much more expensive amp). I have not compared it with the Super-T or any of the more expensive amps using the chip. I'm not saying it's perfect and I'm not comparing it with multi-thousand dollar amps. But for $35 it's great. People should enjoy it for what it is. If not, they should buy something else (and more expensive). I agree that it makes no financial sense to mod it. But that's not the point.

 Buying speakers only to throw away the drivers to use it's flawed cabinet? These upgrades don't make a lot of sense to me. If the speaker sounds good out of the box, it's worth buying to me. If not, then I'm not interested. Adding $150 in parts to a $40 speaker, plus a lot of labor, to make them sound almost as good as a $200 set of speakers? I don't get it. I think people are fooling themselves into thinking they are going to turn a $40 speaker into a high-end product. I like the review comparing them to the Boston A-60s. I have a pair of Bostons from that era too, and they are disappointing. No where near as good sounding as a pair of Kef Chorales or B&W 302s that I have. I'm really interested in these for desktop computer speakers (powered by a T-Amp).


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## marvin

They look pretty good for $50 speakers, but I'm not too sure that the GR Research modded versions are worth it though. You can easily pick up the Infinity Primus 150 at that price, which sounds good and measures well.

 I dunno how well these would work with a T-Amp. They have pretty low sensitivity, and unless you're working in very nearfield conditions, the T-Amp/Insignia pairing likely won't have enough dynamic range to be satisfying.


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## Spareribs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marvin* 
_They look pretty good for $50 speakers, but I'm not too sure that the GR Research modded versions are worth it though. You can easily pick up the Infinity Primus 150 at that price, which sounds good and measures well.

 I dunno how well these would work with a T-Amp. They have pretty low sensitivity, and unless you're working in very nearfield conditions, the T-Amp/Insignia pairing likely won't have enough dynamic range to be satisfying._

 

Do you think I should get the Infinity Primus 150 instead of the Insignias? Will the Infinity Primas 150 pair well with the T amp?


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## ooheadsoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_Buying speakers only to throw away the drivers to use it's flawed cabinet? These upgrades don't make a lot of sense to me._

 

I don't know if you have tried to make your own speaker cabinet, but it sure is worth it to me. For $50, you can discount most of that cost for the price of raw materials and on top of that, a full time weekend or two doing physical labor (and access to table saws and routers, lots and lots of sand paper, and a lot of money in bar clamps.) It's a bargain to anyone conscious of this, unless they consider the cabinet building a hobby. Good designs are hard to come by at low prices in the commercial world, which is why many of us diy speakers. DIYers can buy plenty of high quality drivers for a couple hundred bucks, stuff you won't see except in commercial designs costing multiple thousands of dollars, and nice quality xover components that you won't find in commercial designs anywhere at all, but the cabinet is always a huge hiccup. Commerial designs always have to deal with that pesky dealer markup, which at least doubles every leg of the chain in this particular market. Again, as Wodgy has nicely stated, that makes deals like the insignia and the x-ls very intriguing.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spareribs* 
_Do you think I should get the Infinity Primus 150 instead of the Insignias? Will the Infinity Primas 150 pair well with the T amp?_

 

The coaxial nature of the insignia does it for me, plus you have a $90 upgrade path if you ever feel like it down the road.


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## marvin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spareribs* 
_Do you think I should get the Infinity Primus 150 instead of the Insignias? Will the Infinity Primas 150 pair well with the T amp?_

 

The Primus 150 should do pretty well with a T-Amp, althought I haven't tried it yet. They're sensitive enough to use with a T-Amp in nearfield configuration, and the T-Amp's bass roll off is a non-issue with most small bookshelves.


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## ooheadsoo

Btw, Zaph has already published some trap circuits that you can implement on your own without buying GR's uber premium alpha core foil inductors and diy your own damping and absorption.


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## Wodgy

It's worth being realistic about the T-Amp. There are no low cost speakers that really shine with the 0.125 watts of music power the T-Amp brings to the table:
http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/sonic3.htm

 I know ooheadsoo has experienced the same thing. It's easy to fall in love with the sound of a gutless amp, because many of them have a nice top end, but eventually you realize something's missing in terms of dynamics. In my case I was using 93dB/watt speakers with an amp about twice as powerful as the T-Amp, and I don't listen loud.

 Choosing speakers specifically to match with a low cost amp like the T-Amp doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Choose speakers you like. The T-Amp will drive them passibly well, regardless of a few dB here and there of sensitivity. If you upgrade later, you're not boxed in to compromises you made to accomodate a $30 amp.

 In the $200 range, the Infinity Primus 150 look good, though because they use metal cone drivers, I would personally choose the X-LS instead.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_Buying speakers only to throw away the drivers to use it's flawed cabinet?_

 

I only meant that for tweakers and the DIY speaker community. What I meant is that it's cheaper to buy these just for the boxes than it is to build boxes yourself, or to buy raw boxes from Parts Express (minimum $130+shipping just for raw boxes) or Madisound.

 The Insignias stand on their own merits as reasonably good measuring speakers with decent quality drivers for $23 each, no tweaks required. If someone feels like tweaking them, go for it, but the original reason I started this thread was because I felt they were a good value on their own out of the box. 

 Compared to the usual "home theatre in a box" stuff and other things you usually find at Best Buy for similar prices (low end Jamo, etc., with plastic cabinets), I thought these speakers appeared to be a very good deal. I'm also in AJ's camp with respect to coax speakers... they tend to have a cleaner power response due to the built in directivity and relative lack of combing effects, which makes speakers like this practical in real, untreated rooms.


----------



## lini

Only just discovered this thread - but, wow: Nice find, Wodgy - the construction seems very well worth a try for the price.

 Oh, and just btw, I'd very much second your and ooheadsoo's speaker-diy related comments - even though my experience is probably already a bit outdated (last one was a two-way ~ 1 m floorstander using some Seas polyprop 21 cm mid/woofer & Seas 25 mm Alu tweeter (ferrofluid cooled one with integrated air chamber) & minimalistic 6 dB crossover somewhere around 2.5 kHz, iirc, in an irregular triangle closed 1.6 cm birch multiplex enclosure with bitumen & wool damping, which I've designed for a friend in the early 90s...): Choosing a couple of good drivers that match nicely, designing a nice little crossover for these and soldering everything together is comparatively easy compared to producing a good enclosure with flawless finish. The latter is also the part which requires most tools, workspace and craftsmanship skills. And good wood doesn't come cheap, either...

 Greetings from Hannover!

 Manfred / lini


----------



## classicalguy

"It's worth being realistic about the T-Amp. There are no low cost speakers that really shine with the 0.125 watts of music power the T-Amp brings to the table:
 http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/sonic3.htm"

 Well, there are many reviewers and users, including me, who disagree with you. I have 4 T-Amps. I use them with Kef Chorales, B&W 302s, NHT Super Zeros and some older Boston speakers. The speakers have never sounded better with any other amp I've tried. Sound is clean, articulate, natural. The amp is extremely quiet. There is no audible clipping, and there is plenty of volume. I listen to music at natural acoustic volumes. If you want to shake the walls, this is not the amp for you.

 Personally, I think the .125 watts discussed in the article is utter nonsense. His theory used to arrive at that number would also apply to any other amp - take the voltage output and subtract 18db. All power ratings would be much lower. Maybe that's an accurate way to truly measure power output, but it would apply equally to all amplifiers and would simply result in much lower output numbers. The real world performance of a power amplifier with real world speakers is not changed by his theoretical measurement argument. 

 So, Wodgy, have you ever actually listened to a T-Amp? If so, with what speakers and what power supply? Or are your opinions based solely on the measurements you've read about? 

 I would be interested in hearing from someone who has tried a t-amp with the Insignias. They have an efficiency rating of 91, which is more efficient than most of the speakers I have successfully tried with a T-Amp, so I'd be surprised if the T-Amp can't power them adequately at reasonable levels from relatively close range. But the proof is in the listening, not in the theoretical arguments of people who are selectively posting articles from the internet to support a position at odds with the experience of the many users who are regularly enjoying their $35 t-amps. 

 "Choosing a couple of good drivers that match nicely, designing a nice little crossover for these and soldering everything together is comparatively easy compared to producing a good enclosure with flawless finish."

 Well, I disagree for a couple of reasons. First, the reviews say that the Insignia cabinets are not particularly good enclosures. Second, most do-it-yourselfers don't have the test equipment and skill to put together a great set of speakers. I have heard quite a few diy speakers, and they have all been flawed IMO. The people who built them think they sound great, but I think that's a lot of cognitive dissonance. The cost of the design and testing work that goes into speakers by top manufacturers is spread out into a large volume of product. That's why I say that the cost of purchasing components to build one speaker is not a good way to measure the worth of a retail speaker - unless of course your intent is to use the drivers for something else. It may cost you $100,000 to buy each each of the parts you'd need to build a Hyundai sonata automobile, that doesn't mean the car is worth $100,000. Nor does it indicate what the speaker component cost the manufacturer to build. They can price the individual components any way they want to. Unless you plan on doing something else with the components (and the speaker happens to have the precise components you want), the only thing that matters to someone who is not going to modify the speakers is the relative sound/cost of the finished speaker.

 There is no doubt that the T-Amp is a flawed component. Every component has flaws. We are a very long way from reproducing the sound of live music. The question is whether the tradeoffs, with properly matched components, makes a good sounding system. My t-amps have given me a lot of pleasure, and brought new enjoyment to speakers that were gathering dust in the garage.


----------



## ooheadsoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_The people who built them think they sound great, but I think that's a lot of cognitive dissonance._

 

Surely you realize that this comment swings both ways? That's why measurements must be relied on to serve as a barometer of which way the wind is blowing. 

 The Insignia cabinets are ok with the application of $5 of putty and damping of the top and bottom panels. That's an ok deal by me.


----------



## Spareribs

I don't know anything about speakers but I just stopped by Best Buy this morning and picked up a pair of these Insignias. They were $49.99 plus tax. so it came to around $53. 

 These are big speakers. I never bought bookshelf speakers before and I was expecting something like computer speakers. But they are very different. And these are heavy too! I was struggling a little carrying them. It was like lifting heavy weights at the gym.

 I am listening to them right now and wow! They are so powerful! I was actually frightened when I put on an orchestra CD. It actually put fear into me as the sound was so strong and powerful. I can't believe that I was trembling. The bass is strong too. Lots of full body in these speakers. Way more than my computer speakers. I'm impressed and in audiophile heaven.


----------



## classicalguy

Yea, looks like the price is up to $50/pair today. They were $40, then $46, and now $50. Even though they are probably worth every bit of $50, it would be hard for me to buy them knowing that they once sold for $40 (I told you I'm a cheapskate).


----------



## Spareribs

I'm still listening. I can't believe how incredible these sound. I am pinching myself. Nice bass.


----------



## Snake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* 
_I never suggested buying a T-Amp and modding it. I use it out of the box, and it sounds great with my small bookshelf speakers. It sounds much better to me than a mid-fi receiver or my old Hafler DH-220 (which was a big and much more expensive amp)._

 

Thank goodness - the Hafler wasn't very good at all. Top-end grain that only the original Adcom GFA-1/GFA-1A, SAE and (the later) H/K Citation 22 easily beat. From just a bit later in era (from the GFA-1), a B&K ST-140 beat them all quite handily with 1 arm ripped out of it's socket and the other arm tied down to it's ankles.

 The Hafler was a decent value for the money when new, but "just" OK sounding. IIRC there was quite a bit of modding available to help make the Haflers better, and that's going back a long time before "modding" became so fashionable.


----------



## Spareribs

Now that I have these Insignias, I'm thinking about buying 2 more Insignias speakers and a subwoofer to create a surround sound system. Will this be ok with these kind of speakers? I know nothing about surround sound systems. I do know that I have to get a 5.1 reciever.

 Also, these Insignias have pretty good bass already. Will a subwoofer be ok to add? Will it be bass over kill?


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## mikee898

If I were to get a pair of these for my computer, and I have a audiophile 2496 card, what else would I need to get them to work? Do I need a t-amp? And what about cables?


----------



## classicalguy

Mikee898: you'd need an amp for sure, and maybe a preamp to control the volume (or an integrated amp). A t-amp might work, and has volume control built in. I say "might" because so far no one has commented on whether the t-amp is powerful enough for the speakers. I suspect it will be fine, but I have not tried it.

 You would need a cable between your soundcard and the t-amp, and speaker cable between the tamp and the speakers. I don't know whether your soundcard has a mini-rca jack or dual full size rca jacks. You need to either get a mini-to-mini cable or a dual full size rca --> mini cable. The cables are readily available at radio shack. The t-amp comes with a really short low quality mini->mini cable (about 1 foot)

 You need speaker cable between the T-amp and the speakers. I'd recommend 14 gauge, which fits well in the t-amp clips.


----------



## classicalguy

Spareribs: Sure, you can use them for surrounds. In fact, if we're talking about movie soundtracks, most of the rear channel sounds don't require high quality speakers. You can also use a sub. Integrating a sub for music can be difficult. For movies with a dolby digital receiver with sub output, you just plug it in and it shakes the floor when the dinosaur walks. I have really good fronts and really cheap rears. Works fine. 

 5.1 requires 6 speakers: 2 fronts, 2 rears, 1 center, and 1 sub. Center channel is important for dialog. The insignias might work, but you might want to get a dedicated center channel speaker. Are the insignias shielded?


----------



## mikee898

Thank you classical guy.

 Now I guess I just need to know if the t-amp is enough to power these.

 Anyone wanna let me know?


----------



## Hirsch

I got curious and bought a pair of these at $46 (Insignia NS-B2111), as I had some older components that were sitting around unused and could be put into a system if I had another speaker (NAD 1020 preamp, highly modded Hafler DH-200. Snake is right, the mods were necessary for the Hafler's even back when I built the kit). A price increase to $50 doesn't matter a bit. They're still seriously underpriced for what you get.

 OK, these aren't the replacement for my B&W Matrix 804's, or my Celestion SL600's. Let's get that out of the way. However, they didn't cost $2K/pr either. China is starting to put out some serious audio gear (among many other products) at much lower pricing than is possible in the US. What's happening now is that the quality is going up, as the Chinese electronics industry learns what works and what doesn't. Don't let the low cost fool you. This is a real speaker. 

 These have a more solid feel than the Epos ELS-3, and construction appears excellent. Nice frequency response with no obvious gaps. Imaging has good height and depth. Localization of instruments in the sound field was far better than it had any right to be (I'd rate this as better than my KEF 101.1's). There's some sibilance, but I may give them a try in my Electrocompaniet rig if it doesn't resolve with burn-in, to make sure it's not the amp. In any event, these have great sound, particularly at the price. There's also just a trace of a "tinniness" in the sound, but I've only had them a day. I'll burn them in, and see what happens.

 Spareribs, you can set up a 5.1 surround system with these. A subwoofer usually has adjustable crossover and volume settings, so that you blend the sound in. If a decent sub is set up right, you don't even hear the transition between the speaker and the sub. Bass just seems to go lower and have more impact naturally.

 I can enthusiastically recommend these speakers. At $25 ea, they're a steal, and will outperform some speakers at several times their cost. These are the real deal. I'm in shock that you can get sound like this at that price.

 [size=xx-small]Edited to remove a redundant redundancy.[/size]


----------



## Hanzo

So everyone is very enthusiastic about these, but what about finding Polk r15s on ebay for $50? Would these insignias outperform them?


----------



## Spareribs

Thanks Classical Guy and Hirsh. Very good info
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You asked if the speakers are shielded. I don't think they are. I am looking for the info and I don't see any mention of it. Will this be a problem if they are not sheilded? 



 I am thinking of getting this JBL center channel speaker. Hopefully it will be a good match. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Fencoding=UTF8

 Can anyone recommend a good musical subwoofer to match? 
 I'll think I will be using the Denon 3805 receiver which is 120 watts per channel.


----------



## ooheadsoo

I would recommend going with another insignia for the center channel. It will match in tone and provide a better dispersion pattern, at the least.

 How serious are you about a subwoofer? It costs quite a bit of dough to get your foot in the door with real low frequency extension.


----------



## classicalguy

Spareribs:

 If you are going to use the speakers very close to a tube TV, then you need shielded speakers because the magnets in unshielded speakers can mess with the tv image. This is usually not a problem for the fronts because you can space them far enough away from the screen, but people often put the center channel speaker on top of the screen. If it's not shielded, that can be a problem.

 I've heard good things about the Bic center channel speakers, but I've never heard them myself. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Fencoding=UTF8

 Same goes for Athena subs that are regularly on sale.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetail...=true&id=20367

 I don't agree with Hirsch about the ease of setting up a subwoofer for listening to music. It's true that subs have volume and crossover adjustments, but getting them to blend really well with bookshelfs is either very difficult or nearly impossible in my experience. But getting them to shake for movies is easy.

 You should only consider a subwoofer that has its own amplifier built in (active). A passive sub won't work with your receiver without a separate sub amp. 

 The Watts ratings of mid-fi receivers are very unreliable, as are THD. You really cannot buy mid-fi electronics on the basis of published specs. You should ask here for recommendations on the best dolby digital receiver in your price range. There are usually people around with good suggestions. 

 I'm glad to see people enjoying the speakers. It will be interesting to hear from someone who tries a T-Amp with them. T-amps are great for desktop computer systems.

 As for the comments about my Hafler DH-220 amp, yes it's old. I thought it sounded pretty good after it got warmed up - very euphonic like a tube amp. It has a very long warm up time, and sounds terrible cold. One thing I really like about the t-amp is that it sounds basically the same the minute you turn it on as it does 2 hours later. I certainly don't think the Hafler was the last word in accuracy, but it was a solid mid-level amp in its day. 

 I find it very strange that people who diss the T-Amp on measurement grounds recommend buying a vintage 1970s mid-fi receiver. Those things were not accurate. Certainly less accurate (with all of their tone stages and AM-FM parts, and crummy noisy switches) than either a Hafler DH-220 or a T-Amp. I also have an Adcom 585 dual mono amp in my big rig. I need that beast to power my big old B&W 801 speakers. It sounds great, but there are aspects of the T-Amp that are better (quieter, no warm up, puts out a more delicate sound). The amps are in totally different classes. But the T-Amp does some things really well. Everyone who has heard them is impressed. Yes, there is limited power output and bass rolloff, but everything has tradeoffs.

 I think we're going to see a lot of good sounding reasonably priced digital amplifiers in the near future. But for the time being, there is nothing in the price class of the T-Amp to compare with it. You have to get to $130 or so before there is anything else worth considering.


----------



## Spareribs

Thanks for the info classical guy. The Athena subwoofer that you recommend is 100 watts while the Insignias 120 watts and the center channel speaker is around the same range. Will this be ok if the subwoofer is a lesser wattage than the speakers?


----------



## classicalguy

Spareribs: you're mixing up numbers. The insignias are unamplified speakers. The power rating is the amount of watts that the speaker can take from an amplifier before being damaged. Insignia is saying "don't use an amplifier that puts out more than 120 watts because you could damage the speakers." But this is really not true. You could use a 300 watt amplifier without any problem as long as you don't turn it up too high. Also, you can blow out speakers more easily by over-loading a low powered amp into clipping. So that "maximum power handling capacity" number is not really very meaningful. In fact, it's downright misleading when people would shop for speakers on the basis of power handling capacity: "my speakers are better than yours because they can handle 500 watts." That's nonsense.

 The Athena subwoofer has a built-in 100 watt amplifier that powers the subwoofer. There is no relation between the power handling of the insignias and the amplifier in the subwoofer - two totally different unrelated things. Your 5.1 receiver will have a high level (unamplified) output for a subwoofer. You run an rca cable between the subwoofer output of the receiver and the sub, and the receiver will handle the crossover point. You set the loudness with the tone controls in the amp and you're done - at least for movies. You'll have to ask someone else how well this works for music - I have no experience with 5.1 and stereo music with the sub. I think you can set the receiver to handle the crossover with music too, but I'm really not sure.

 I have a sub in a two channel setup, and it has never sounded as good as a unified speaker. 

 Note also that you can always add a sub later. You may find you don't need a sub. Or, you may decide that you want a really big sub that will sound to your neighbors like the low rider car passing your house. 

 The problem with many subs is that they play loud, but they have the "one note" problem of only making thumps, not sounding musical. The Athena is supposed to be very good sounding for the price.


----------



## Spareribs

well alright, thanks for your advice Classical guy.


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## jjcapurro

I went by my local BB today to pick a pair of these up for my garage/workshop but they didn't have them even though the website said they had them in stock... Just another reminder of why I do not ever shop at Best Buy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh Well.

 Cheers,
 Jeremy


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## JaGWiRE

Somebody should buy a few pairs, for us in Canada like myself who would be willing to pay shipping. Hint hint, is anybody willing to do this for me?


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## mikee898

Somebody should also try it with a t-amp quick. Because until then my speakers are just sitting around doing nothing, just waiting to be used!

 Actually I just discovered that over on the diyaudio forums someone tried it and had good results with the t-amp, so I will be buying one shortly.


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikee898* 
_Somebody should also try it with a t-amp quick. Because until then my speakers are just sitting around doing nothing, just waiting to be used!_

 

I plan on getting a pair today and ill let you guys know how it sounds with a t-amp.


----------



## wmbow

I have my Insignia's that I purchased 6-17 hooked up in my bedroom with my T-amp and a Rat Shack portable cd player. Prior to that, I hooked them up in my living room w/the same set up just to be sure they worked. First thing I noticed in the LR was a credible center fill, sound not just coming from the speakers. Volume was respectable considering the size of the room. I did not listen for very long (the US Open was on which took predence, listened during the commercials) nor did I crank it up much past 12 o'clock. In the bedroom, a much smaller area, it does fill the room with sound and again I have not gone much past 12 o'clock on the volume. They do not sound as good in the bedrom as they are right up against the walls but the sound is very good considering the cost of the setup and the area that they are in. Again, I have probably not listened more than a half hour at this point but thought I would post as others were wondering how the T-amp would do with these.
 jjcapurro- I had a similar experience at my BB. But, per other posts on AA or DYI, I looked around a little and insisted the sales clerk do the same and a pair was found on top of the shelves. Same situation in that the computer said they were in stock but the sales clerk claimed not to know about them. Seems the staff at BB does not know much about these speakers.


----------



## jpelg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wmbow* 
_They do not sound as good in the bedrom as they are right up against the walls._

 

Curious as to the best room arrangement for these speakers? 

 I'm not familiar with "coaxial" design speakers, other than in automobile speakers. I can't even figure out where the tweeter is on these things from the pics. Somebody help a bruthah out and sort out this source of minor confusion for me. TIA.


----------



## wmbow

The tweeter is in the center of the driver cone just as in a coaxial speaker in a car.


----------



## bhd812

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikee898* 
_Somebody should also try it with a t-amp quick. Because until then my speakers are just sitting around doing nothing, just waiting to be used!

 Actually I just discovered that over on the diyaudio forums someone tried it and had good results with the t-amp, so I will be buying one shortly._

 


 I bought a pair of these insig speakers using my old gift cards from bb. rite now I am using them on my computer with the T amp and lit ah dac...


 sound nice to me but not sure if the speakers are better then my old jbl n26's yet. they look nice though! the t amp has plently of power for these bad boys!


----------



## mikee898

Thanks guys.

 I can't wait till mine get in the mail!


----------



## Hanzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bhd812* 
_I bought a pair of these insig speakers using my old gift cards from bb. rite now I am using them on my computer with the T amp and lit ah dac...


 sound nice to me but not sure if the speakers are better then my old jbl n26's yet. they look nice though! the t amp has plently of power for these bad boys!_

 

So how's the bass? (for a bookshelf)


----------



## jjcapurro

Got my pair now. Ordered online and did in-store pickup, so I'll do a review and post pictures tomorrow.

 Best Regards,
 Jeremy


----------



## bhd812

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hanzo* 
_So how's the bass? (for a bookshelf)_

 

the specs 50hz lowest they will go while my n26's only do 55hz low. to me the n26's are better and more balanced then these.

 maybe I need to burn them in really good first..god I hate burn in!


 they really do look nice though..I mean really nice


----------



## aznsensazian

Got them this morning. It didnt come with any wire or plugs, so i had to go to ratshack to buy some speaker cable and banana plugs. An hour later and im listening to them now through the t-amp. It sounds pretty good especially for the price. Will it beat $200-300 dollar speakers? I dont think so, but it does exceed my expectations considering they were only a measely 50 bux. The T-Amp does a fabulous job of driving them btw and i only have the volume at around 9am and its approaching loudness. At first listen, its a lil bass heavy, mids sound a little hollowy, and highs a lil strident. Hopefully this will change after some more burn-in. For the price though, i cant complain. Mods on this thing will be pretty fun


----------



## JaGWiRE

Somebody pm me if you can pick them up and ship them to me in Canada. Thanks.


----------



## Spareribs

Another nice feature that no one has mentioned is that the package included handsome black rubber feet that you can stick on at the bottom of the speakers at your free will.


----------



## flecom

anyone have a recomendation for a center channel speaker that matches up well with these?


----------



## clarke68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flecom* 
_anyone have a recomendation for a center channel speaker that matches up well with these?_

 

I'd just get another pair of the Insignias. There's no better way to timbre-match your center channel, as long as you can fit it over/under/in front of your TV. Use the extra one as a rear center (if your system support 6.1) or sell it.


----------



## Spareribs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_I'd just get another pair of the Insignias. There's no better way to timbre-match your center channel, as long as you can fit it over/under/in front of your TV. Use the extra one as a rear center (if your system support 6.1) or sell it._

 

Will I be able to get the full effect of center channel that way? Usually center channel speakers have 2 woofers side by side, while these insignias have just one.

 Edit: I don't think these are magnetically shielded, so as a center channel speaker, it could be a problem but I'm not sure.


----------



## clarke68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spareribs* 
_Will I be able to get the full effect of center channel that way?_

 

Sure. 90% of what comes out of a center channel is dialog, anyway.

 All center channels are really good for is centering the dialog to the monitor _for people watching off-axis_. If you're room isn't wide enough that people are watching off-axis, you don't need one. If your mains image well enough (and imaging is the one area in which the Insignias truly excel) they will create a "phantom center" that surpasses any center channel speaker made.

 Plus, if you know anything about baffle-step correction circuits, the horizontal "under the TV" form factor of center channel speakers almost guarantees that none are truly timbre-matched to the mains they are sold with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spareribs* 
_Edit: I don't think these are magnetically shielded, so as a center channel speaker, it could be a problem but I'm not sure._

 

That's a good point. Depends more on your TV than anything else, but there's another argument for phantom center.


----------



## JaGWiRE

So what's the weight of the box these are sold in? I want to calculate shipping and see how much it would be to cover it and have somebody in the US send me a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. come on, help out the canucks who don't get any cool sales.


----------



## Drewpy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JaGWiRE* 
_So what's the weight of the box these are sold in? I want to calculate shipping and see how much it would be to cover it and have somebody in the US send me a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. come on, help out the canucks who don't get any cool sales._

 

As an alternative there's ShopTheStates.com


----------



## JaGWiRE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drewpy* 
_As an alternative there's ShopTheStates.com_

 

 I'de rather just deal with somebody on head-fi, thanks.


----------



## clarke68

[size=medium]*As of Friday morning (at 4:30 am), the Insignia 6.5s are $35!!!*[/size]

 [size=xx-small]Sorry for shouting...you can all go back to bed now...[/size]


----------



## dan1son

Dangit, how can I not buy these things...


----------



## classicalguy

Good call Clarke68. I've been checking every day waiting for the price to drop! I jumped today - ordered on-line for local pickup. Apparently, they are in stock in my local store. Will probably pick them up this evening. Under $40 per pair with tax.


----------



## aznsensazian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_[size=medium]*As of Friday morning (at 4:30 am), the Insignia 6.5s are $35!!!*[/size]

 [size=xx-small]Sorry for shouting...you can all go back to bed now...[/size]_

 

[size=x-large]OMG[/size] I am buying myself 2 pairs!!!


----------



## JMCIII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_[size=medium]*As of Friday morning (at 4:30 am), the Insignia 6.5s are $35!!!*[/size]

 [size=xx-small]Sorry for shouting...you can all go back to bed now...[/size]_

 


 Yep, $35 *a pair* during Best Buy's "Special 2-day Sale. I bought a pair last week for fulll price, and Best buy will refund me the difference since it's within 30 days of purchase. Not bad. 

 Oh, and I bought a second set, showed a friend and he bought a pair too. 

 Get em while they're hot (and cheap).


----------



## flashbackk

$37.01 out the door. It's an online special only,but they price match it for you. It's about a dollar a pound. They seem real substantial and really look good. It will be to fun start burning them tomorrow with my super t-amp and HD extention cord speaker wire. I am not cheap.....I am not cheap...I am not.......


----------



## JMCIII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flashbackk* 
_$37.01 out the door. It's an online special only,but they price match it for you. It's about a dollar a pound. They seem real substantial and really look good. It will be to fun start burning them tomorrow with my super t-amp and HD extention cord speaker wire. I am not cheap.....I am not cheap...I am not.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I believe the word is "frugal". And good for you.


----------



## proglife

bought a pair for father's day and was impressed with the "open the box" impression. They do look really nice. It amazes me what some WBT binding posts cost as much as this entire speaker.

 Listened to them in FAR from optimal condition (30 feet apart against walls with a POS sony HT receiver). They definitely have an "open" quality...and for the nice looks and 35 dollar price, that's all they really need to do for me. 

 I just bought another pair. I'll put them in the office.


----------



## skullguise

I'm on the bandwagon now as well. Bought them at $35 in-store (price-matched online, as another poster mentioned). NH store, no sales tax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Out of the box, they are OK. I also heard the fat midbass, boxy/congested mids. But have been driving them a few hours and already I think I hear some of the congestion moving away (or maybe I'm just getting used to it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). They should be nice for a fun DIY mod I imagine (crossover, cabinet bracing).

 They are indeed open sounding, though, and do have a nice center fill.....definitely up in the > $100 sound IMO.


----------



## classicalguy

Picket mine up today. They are big and heavy. Clearly, the price per pound is VERY low. I imagined they'd be smaller. Also, binding posts are nice. I've hooked them up to an old Sony stereo receiver. They sound ok. I'll have to hook them up to some better components to really compare them.


----------



## Jon L

And let me introduce you to the $95 Insignia Upgrade Kit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.gr-research.com/insignia.htm


----------



## ShaftedTwice

I'm about to pounce on these.. but I am wondering if these would work well as computer speakers as well or if I should maybe go for a cheap 5.1 system..


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_[size=medium]*As of Friday morning (at 4:30 am), the Insignia 6.5s are $35!!!*[/size]

 [size=xx-small]Sorry for shouting...you can all go back to bed now...[/size]_

 

OH MY OH MY! Now I have to go back and buy them and put 'em under the bed, or something, 'til I figure where to put 'em! 

 Those little suckers are heavy. No free shipping at that price, so it's $10-15 for a taxi in midtown traffic. The extra $10 discount will pay for that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now where can I find a Super T Amp on sale for $35?


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ShaftedTwice* 
_I'm about to pounce on these.. but I am wondering if these would work well as computer speakers as well or if I should maybe go for a cheap 5.1 system.._

 

They're not powered speakers ... but the T-Amp........


----------



## chesebert

which to use? T-amp? NAD 320BEE or other nice cheap good sounding integrated amp?


----------



## classicalguy

T-Amp Retail price: $40 + $15 for ps = $55
 NAD 320BEE: $399.99

 That's a big price difference. Does the NAD sound better?


----------



## redshifter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_Sure. 90% of what comes out of a center channel is dialog, anyway.

 All center channels are really good for is centering the dialog to the monitor for people watching off-axis. If you're room isn't wide enough that people are watching off-axis, you don't need one. If your mains image well enough (and imaging is the one area in which the Insignias truly excel) they will create a "phantom center" that surpasses any center channel speaker made.

 Plus, if you know anything about baffle-step correction circuits, the horizontal "under the TV" form factor of center channel speakers almost guarantees that none are truly timbre-matched to the mains they are sold with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's a good point. Depends more on your TV than anything else, but there's another argument for phantom center._

 

i disagree. the keystone of a good ht speaker system is the center speaker. not just dialog, but a good percentage of the soundtrack (music, sound effects, etc.) are routed to the center. usually the front mains are placed on either side of the tv, which can break up the phantom center image. 

 anyone building a ht should at least give having a center speaker a try. i doubt you'll return it to the store.


----------



## edstrelow

I got a pair for my wife to use in her classroom. An ordinary boombox will seriously compromise classical music. Also got the Insignia 200w receiver for $80.00 (open box) although theye were only $102.00 unopened. Like others am amazed at the quality features, the weight, the binding posts and frankly the sound. It's a great entry-level system.


----------



## afireinside

Man I have NO use for speakers at all but I'm thinking about buying a pair and a t-amp


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_Got them this morning. It didnt come with any wire or plugs, so i had to go to ratshack to buy some speaker cable and banana plugs. An hour later and im listening to them now through the t-amp. It sounds pretty good especially for the price. Will it beat $200-300 dollar speakers? I dont think so, but it does exceed my expectations considering they were only a measely 50 bux. The T-Amp does a fabulous job of driving them btw and i only have the volume at around 9am and its approaching loudness. At first listen, its a lil bass heavy, mids sound a little hollowy, and highs a lil strident. Hopefully this will change after some more burn-in. For the price though, i cant complain. Mods on this thing will be pretty fun
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






_

 

I have almost the opposite reaction from yours. then again I bought a NAD320BEE after comparing it with T-amp. Under NAD, the mids is really nice and full, the bass is not quite solid yet, and high is a little Grado like (before burn-in). So i expect all to improve after some burn-in.

 LMAO..I must be crazy..$400 amp with $37 speaker....OUCH! damn you headfi!


----------



## Spareribs

I'm thinking about getting this center channel speaker from Bic America. According to other reviews, their center channel speakers can balance well with other bookshelves. I may give it a shot.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=172282


----------



## marvin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spareribs* 
_I'm thinking about getting this center channel speaker from Bic America. According to other reviews, their center channel speakers can balance well with other bookshelves. I may give it a shot.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=172282_

 

I don't see why you would get that center. Just pick up another pair of the Insignias and use one of them as a center. (Or 2 pairs and setup 6.1 surround.) That way, you won't have to worry about voice matching, and I would bet that the Insignias are better than the center speaker you linked.


----------



## Spareribs

I'll give it a shot. I suppose if it doesn't work out I'll just buy a center channel anyway and keep the pair for another use.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* 
_I have almost the opposite reaction from yours. then again I bought a NAD320BEE after comparing it with T-amp. Under NAD, the mids is really nice and full, the bass is not quite solid yet, and high is a little Grado like (before burn-in). So i expect all to improve after some burn-in.

 LMAO..I must be crazy..$400 amp with $37 speaker....OUCH! damn you headfi!_

 

LMAO.I am quoating myself here.

 OK..per some suggestion on this forum..I used headamp out from Zhaolu D2 to the power amp section of 320BEE...****...this amp just turned from $400 cheapo (relatively speaking) to $1k+ gem! this is so great. i wonder if the nad amp can be further improved with a better preamp stage...


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aznsensazian* 
_[size=x-large]OMG[/size] I am buying myself 2 pairs!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

already did


----------



## Spareribs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* 
_LMAO.I am quoating myself here.

 OK..per some suggestion on this forum..I used headamp out from Zhaolu D2 to the power amp section of 320BEE...****...this amp just turned from $400 cheapo (relatively speaking) to $1k+ gem! this is so great. i wonder if the nad amp can be further improved with a better preamp stage..._

 

Best Buy price matched the 1st set of speakers that I got last week and gave back $15 that I spend from $53 and I purchased the 2nd set for $37. I'm going to get another set tommorow to create a 6.1 system. 

 Around Christmas, I plan on getting the Denon 3910 which is a $1500 player and a $700 Denon reciever and use it with these $37 a pair speakers for DVDs and music. I will also add an HSU subwoofer too. It will kick ass! The Insignias will rock the house! 

 I now have Insignia fever! Can't wait.


----------



## bhd812

I have this DIY tube amp kit that cost $140,00. hopfully tomorrow I will move the speakers out of my computer area and set them up on stands at the foot end of my bed. using them with the tube amp and the lite dac with a toshiba dvd transport. I will report on how they sound, but I got to clean the area first......lol


----------



## marvin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spareribs* 
_Best Buy price matched the 1st set of speakers that I got last week and gave back $15 that I spend from $53 and I purchased the 2nd set for $37. I'm going to get another set tommorow to create a 6.1 system. 

 Around Christmas, I plan on getting the Denon 3910 which is a $1500 player and a $700 Denon reciever and use it with these $37 a pair speakers for DVDs and music. I will also add an HSU subwoofer too. It will kick ass! The Insignias will rock the house! 

 I now have Insignia fever! Can't wait._

 

Heh, kinda killing the budget aspect of your system there aren't you?


----------



## bhd812

Ok set them up and snapped pics...

 the set up is..

 Toshiba dvd as a transport
 LITE ah dac 
 Eddie Current ec-01 into the ec/dc as a preamp
 adcom gfa-545 power amp
 mit avt 1 20 ft rca (the amp is under my bed while the rack is on the side.)
 Radio shack Gold rca (old fusion cable)
 cardas twinlink speaker cable.

 notice the ROOMTUNES treatment and auralex panals...it helps a load!

 Basicly its set up at the foot of my bed now, listened for a few hours and I must say these speakers are nice!!! really nice. the speaker setup is making me think about my bigger setup across the room now, I think I need to do some more placement in rig one cause this small setup is showing some great imaging and soundstage. 

 the speakers behind the insigs are my old dynaudio 122's..

 I will try the diy tube amp with them tomorrow, I need to do more listening now.
 sorry for the crappy pics..


----------



## jpelg

Wow, those look bigger than I thought they'd be, Billy.

 Mine are expected to arrive later this week. I have no idea where I'm gonna set them up in this tiny apartment, but I couldn't resist the latest BB sale! 

 I need some stands. Can anyone recommend some inexpensive, easy to obtain speaker stands?

 (At least I have an amp to use with them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Hanzo

Just got these myself (my first purchase based on this forum) and was amazed at the size. They are NOT SMALL! Also looking for some cheap stands. Keep in mind that they are shaped funny (curved sides). Don't even have a way to drive them (yet).

 Let the dammage to my wallet commence!


----------



## jjcapurro

I'm looking for some stands too... Anyone?


----------



## Romanee

Add me to the list of good-but-inexpensive-stand-seekers. I bought the last pair at the Manhattan 23rd Street store (...and they gave me an extra $5 off?! ... so $30+tax and good weight-training session via over-arm-L&R-shoulder-carry + a little curling).

 If I come across something in the right price range -- to make me feel I'm still in the bargain basement, without ruining the sound -- I'll post it, but nothing found yet.

 There are stands for $70-$80-$90, etc. -- but somehow that just seems wrong for $35 speakers (even very nice ones) -- sort of kills the fun factor. Oh, well.

 BTW -- I did look all over BestBuy but no speaker stands -- to speak of.


----------



## Romanee

Hmmm. I haven't yet seen speaker cable comments in this thread, unless I'm too tired and missed them???

 Have there been budget cable references?

 Anyone try B&H's "Pro" cables, such as:
B&H "Pro-Co Sound" 12-gauge $16.50 for 10ft+bananas both ends -- or is that just more "Pro Audio" junk?

 ...or better suggestions? ..good inexpensive bulk cable and banana plugs (hopefully not Monster, but whatever)? Haven't done this in eons (well, decade or more...).


----------



## soundboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edstrelow* 
_Also got the Insignia 200w receiver for $80.00 (open box) although theye were only $102.00 unopened. Like others am amazed at the quality features, the weight, the binding posts and frankly the sound. It's a great entry-level system._

 

Slightly off-topic....doesn't that receiver have a set of main-in/pre-out jacks? I bet if you substitute the supplied jumpers with a set of nice (and short) interconnects, you can hear ever more improvements.


----------



## jjcapurro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* 
_Have there been budget cable references?_

 

I'm planning on getting some cables from Blue Jeans Cable. I have bought from them in the past with great results. Highly recomended and cheap to boot.

 cheers,
 jeremy


----------



## jpelg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* 
_Add me to the list of good-but-inexpensive-stand-seekers. I bought the last pair at the Manhattan 23rd Street store (...and they gave me an extra $5 off?! ... so $30+tax and good weight-training session via over-arm-L&R-shoulder-carry + a little curling).

 If I come across something in the right price range -- to make me feel I'm still in the bargain basement, without ruining the sound -- I'll post it, but nothing found yet.

 There are stands for $70-$80-$90, etc. -- but somehow that just seems wrong for $35 speakers (even very nice ones) -- sort of kills the fun factor._

 

Good score, Peter! I elected to have mine shipped. It would cost me $20 in cab fare from Manhattan to Queens, plus I'd have to do all the hauling. For the same $$, UPS will ship them to my building and my super will deliver them to my door when I get home.

 Just ordered a pair of 24" Sanus speaker stands from Kmart's website for $30. Not ultra-cheap, but less expensive than similiar alternatives from BB, CC, etc. as you mentioned. I guess if you want to really go bargain-basement, pick up four cement cinderblocks. I wanted something a little nicer.

 Speakers are scheduled to arrive tomorrow. Stands by the weekend. First I'll try some cheapo speaker cabling. If all goes well, I'll be listening to tunes on my first speaker system in fifteen years by the weekend.


----------



## I3eyond

Should I get these speakers, or the Swan M200's?


----------



## Azure

Blah, I should have hit this deal earlier. They're now $49.99 for the pair (


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpelg* 
_Just ordered a pair of 24" Sanus speaker stands from Kmart's website for $30. Not ultra-cheap, but less expensive than similiar alternatives from BB, CC, etc. as you mentioned. I guess if you want to really go bargain-basement, pick up four cement cinderblocks. I wanted something a little nicer.

 Speakers are scheduled to arrive tomorrow. Stands by the weekend. First I'll try some cheapo speaker cabling. If all goes well, I'll be listening to tunes on my first speaker system in fifteen years by the weekend._

 

Good Find! The same Sanus BF24B is $54.99 at B&H!!! 

 What do call "cheapo speaker cabling"?


----------



## jjcapurro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* 
_Good Find! The same Sanus BF24B is $54.99 at B&H!!! 

 What do call "cheapo speaker cabling"?_

 

Seconded! I just ordered there as well. A quick search turned up many stores in the $45-50 range. For 29 bux I'm there.

 Cheers,
 Jeremy


----------



## Romanee

I needed the 31" stands, and I found them at Amazon.com for $34.99 and Free Super Saver Shipping:

Sanus BF31B @ Amazon w/Free Shipping


----------



## JMCIII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Blah, I should have hit this deal earlier. They're now $49.99 for the pair (_

 


 Azure, even at $50 a pair these are a great deal. They are a nice sounding speaker. I bought my first pair for that price and wasn't at all disappointed. I got lucky that they went on sale within the 30 day buying period and Best Buy refunded me the $15 difference. Would I have bought that second pair if they weren't on sale. Sure. Just not as soon, but I would have picked a pair up at some point. But it was hard to pass them up for $35. I even got a friend to buy a pair as well. (Ah yes, hooked another one to send down the audiophile road.)


----------



## chesebert

Has anyone tried to stack these? 

 How do they sound when stacked and/or placed side to side?


----------



## flashbackk

I know this isn't what you meant by " stacked ", but this is my stack. A lot of good sound coming from that corner.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I am really impressed. Fun to listen to.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../DSCN0670a.jpg



 laptop>edirol ua-25>super-t>insignia


----------



## soundboy

Cuurent issue of e-zine Affordable Audio has review of Insignia speakers (along with a review of the Athena Tech AS-B1)


----------



## terrymx

i like the speaker box designed, which are more ideal for sound quality than the usual rectangular box. usually only more expensive speakers have rounder end. you can buy them and replace the drivers with a better one.


----------



## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_Cuurent issue of e-zine Affordable Audio has review of Insignia speakers (along with a review of the Athena Tech AS-B1)_

 

Pretty informative review, thanks fro the link, too bad I missed the $35 sale.


----------



## jpelg

Finally got around to assembling the Sanus speaker stands last night. Took about twenty minutes and a philips-head screwdriver. They come together easily and look nice, but aren't the most stable or heaviest (would love to seal them somehow, and fill them with sand or something). You get what you pay for.

 The 24" height is good for my room and the Insignia speakers. I wouldn't want to put them on the higher versions. Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* 
_What do call "cheapo speaker cabling"?_

 

Picked up a 30' spool of 16G speaker cable from RatShack for $7. Cut it to desired length, strip the ends, hook up to receiver & speaker posts. Once I figured out how to turn on my receiver's digital-inputs (going optical from my DVD player) I was rewarded with sweet sounds. Yay, success!

 Out of the box these are displaying a predominance in the lower midbass regions when played at higher volumes - maybe too much for my taste musically. At low volumes though, this makes for a nicely rounded, full sound. Highs are decent though, displaying clarity without any stridency - very pleasant. Not sure how much this is coming from my receiver, as its amp section is reported to be on the warm side (some have described it as almost "tubey" in other forums). In fact, this may be why it proved to be a good match with the AKG K1000's. We'll have to see how these speakers progress as they burn in. 

 In the end, these won't be for critical listening for me. Maybe someday I'll have a house & room for that. My apartment is anything but ideal as far as placement, and I don't have the time nor inclination to test every little tweak (but if you have any, feel free to share!). For now, they're for fun, non-critical music listening and movie watching. The fact they look great increases the fun factor, not to mention WAF (keeping the covers on for now)!


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpelg* 
_The 24" height is good for my room and the Insignia speakers. I wouldn't want to put them on the higher versions._

 

I put together the 31" sanus stands + abs spikes (24" height would have the speakers firing at the edges of our too-high "pillow top" mattress"). The speakers (with 1/2 round rubber cushion feet added) look neat and, despite the added height, seem reasonably stable. Of course when my wife or I wake up groggy and stumble around, I'm sure we'll knock them over at least once or twice! 

 Maybe I can figure a way to rig a sturdy vinyl pouch with sand to weight to lower end somewhat, and/or attach some lead weights under the corners of the base.

 I got 20ft. gold-pin-terminated Monster XP-HP cables for $9.97 at R.S., but haven't hooked them up yet.


----------



## yellafella321

are these good just as a pair of book shelves without a sub?


----------



## cire

just got a pair of these earlier today. using toshiba 3950 as source and pioneer sx-950 reciever as amp (built in the '70s). as a speaker cable, i'm using this cord pulled from old clothes irons (two chords from two different irons) and its pretty damn crappy: measured ~5ohms in less than 3ft. 

 anyways, so far it sounds a bit on the dark side, darker than i prefer. the lower range slam is really nice, but i just can't get over the darkness of the top end. adding a bit of treble on my reciever helped a little, but added an annoying "glare" to the top. i bet its my reciever thats causing it... gotta build a gainclone soon.


----------



## Romanee

Hooked mine up to an old Mitsubishi receiver (80w x 2) and only spent under an hour so far (mediocre amp, but all that's available now). "Dana Owens Album" out of Musical Fidelity X-Ray CD player (RCA/Audio Out) sounds lush and warm. No deep bass. Tried "The Matrix" DVD from Pioneer DV563a player, and though punchy it is sorely in need of a powered subwoofer. Since I don't have one for the bedroom, this setup will be for very casual music listening and video.

 Need much more burn in, setup experiments, and listening time.


----------



## Romanee

As I expected -- the Sanus stands have such a tiny top platform that I already managed to knock one speaker off. (Small edge dent but no damage.)

 Removed round rubber feet (strong adhesive) and rubber corner pads (useless adhesive) and applied heavy velcro square to each corner. Now perfectly stable.


----------



## JMCIII

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* 
_the Sanus stands have such a tiny top platform_

 


 Boy-o you ain't just a kidding. Tiny barely covers it (pun intended). Blue tack works wonders too.


----------



## Zowbombs

I picked these up last week for use with my computer and have been driving them with a Zhaolu 2.0C and a heavily modded t-amp (mega t-amp?). 

 I have to say these are exceptional for the price, the bass isn't deep but very fun. The highs exhibit a little sibilance, but nothing terribly offensive. Soundstage is very coherent, and superior (a normalized comparison) to AKG 701s. Biggest complaint is it gets a bit congested at times with some of the metal I listen to.


----------



## clarke68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zowbombs* 
_I ... have been driving them with ... a heavily modded t-amp_

 

How big is the room you're using these in, and how far are you sitting from the speakers? How much volume are you getting out of the Insignias before the amp clips? Any issues with the magnets interfering with your monitor?

 Sorry for the inquisition, just seems like the Insignias are a natural match for the T-amp, but I haven't heard many details about the combo.


----------



## Zowbombs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_How big is the room you're using these in, and how far are you sitting from the speakers? How much volume are you getting out of the Insignias before the amp clips? Any issues with the magnets interfering with your monitor?

 Sorry for the inquisition, just seems like the Insignias are a natural match for the T-amp, but I haven't heard many details about the combo._

 

Well the room I'm using these in is around 35 feet by 25 feet, but I listen to these almost exclusively near-field ~ 1m. 

 I have a SPL meter and they easily get to 90dB nominal at my listening position. I really haven't listened to them at volumes above that, but I would hazard one could get to 96dB in near-field without any clipping with this setup. 

 The Insignias are situated on polar ends of my desk with the monitor in the middle. This particular monitor is a CRT, and with ~2 feet clearance between speakers and monitor, I haven't noticed any interference.


----------



## I3eyond

How do you guys think these speakers would sound with an Audigy 2 ZS running to a Pioneer VSX-516-K/S (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...7014,00.html)?


----------



## KevC

Another thing to buy when I'm going down to the States later next month.

 I wonder how the packaging is, size-wise? Fit it into a suitcase? Probably not. The packaging is probably not tough enough to withstand airport workers though hahaha


----------



## cire

each speaker is about 14 inches tall and 12-13 inches deep including the bananna plug jack.

 the box is just huge.... i'd say its a 2ft cube with a couple inches of padding.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_Sorry for the inquisition, just seems like the Insignias are a natural match for the T-amp, but I haven't heard many details about the combo._

 

I doubt that it's a good combo, although I should give it a try. I'm throwing a hundred watts per side at the Insignia's (old modded Hafler DH-200), and they love the power. 

 If the bass seems lean, or the sound seems a bit strained, I'd say give them some watts. They may work with low powered amps, but they work *well* with a bit of juice behind them.


----------



## jjcapurro

I agree about the power. These are not ridiculously hungry, but definately do benifit from a good chunk of headroom.

 Also, make sure your signal is unmodified to test performance... When I first set them up in my room on an old receiver I had lying around they sounded HORRIBLE... until I realized I had the 'loudness' button turned on... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 MUCH better now.

 Cheers,
 Jeremy


----------



## KevC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cire* 
_each speaker is about 14 inches tall and 12-13 inches deep including the bananna plug jack.

 the box is just huge.... i'd say its a 2ft cube with a couple inches of padding._

 

Thanks! I might just buy a bigger box and stuff a crapload of crumpled newspapers in it for safety, then throw it to airport luggage hahaha.

 I wonder how these compare to the Athenas?


----------



## cire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_Thanks! I might just buy a bigger box and stuff a crapload of crumpled newspapers in it for safety, then throw it to airport luggage hahaha._

 

just use your clothes for padding. works really well, i did that for an entire computer


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_I wonder how the packaging is, size-wise? Fit it into a suitcase? Probably not. The packaging is probably not tough enough to withstand airport workers though hahaha_

 

The product package (box) for a pair of these Insignias is 14inches x 16 inches x 20.25inches and weighs 28 lbs. When I ordered a pair of these from Best Buy, they just put a shipping sticker on the product box and let UPS do the rest - no shipping packaging outside of the product box. The product box and the speakers arrived in fine condition. But, if you decide on another layer of packaging, above are the actual product box dimensions.


----------



## KevC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* 
_The product package (box) for a pair of these Insignias is 14inches x 16 inches x 20.25inches and weighs 28 lbs. When I ordered a pair of these from Best Buy, they just put a shipping sticker on the product box and let UPS do the rest - no shipping packaging outside of the product box. The product box and the speakers arrived in fine condition. But, if you decide on another layer of packaging, above are the actual product box dimensions._

 

UPS is pretty darn rough with it's packages. I guess speakers don't have too many moving parts (none? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) so it should be okay. Now the dilmma is... should i put "FRAGILE" or not. Hahaha. It seems if you put "FRAGILE" they are more rough with it


----------



## geforcewong

Update: Best Buy has the insignias on sale for $39.99. Just found the link from fatwallet:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085354138


----------



## Quake1028

These won't work with RCA connectors, will they? Do any speakers?


----------



## cire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gloomfire* 
_These won't work with RCA connectors, will they? Do any speakers?_

 

these speakers use bananna connectors


----------



## Claus1100xx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_How big is the room you're using these in, and how far are you sitting from the speakers? How much volume are you getting out of the Insignias before the amp clips? Any issues with the magnets interfering with your monitor?

 Sorry for the inquisition, just seems like the Insignias are a natural match for the T-amp, but I haven't heard many details about the combo._

 

It's not a bad combo at all. I run a standard T-Amp with these speakers and no complaints. It won't go superloud, but for a normal listening rig at moderate levels the price/performance is hard to beat. 
 I was blown away when I first heard them.


----------



## Aldo_Lopez

Is this the Super T-Amp that everybody is using:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics...8/?cpg=froogle

 It is what everybody uses with K1000 (I heard a lot about K1000+Super T-Amp)? It is VERY (!!) cheap


----------



## Zowbombs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aldo_Lopez* 
_Is this the Super T-Amp that everybody is using:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics...8/?cpg=froogle

 It is what everybody uses with K1000 (I heard a lot about K1000+Super T-Amp)? It is VERY (!!) cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Pretty much. Mine is actually a regular T-Amp, gutted and completely rebuilt with bigger caps (among other things) and re-cased. The original T-amp has bass roll-off while mine measures flat down to 18hz. 
 The Super T-amp shouldn't have the bass roll-off of the regular t-amp, but then again it is several times more expensive. Keep in mind modded or stock, super or regular, these amps still only put out ~6 usable watts/ch.


----------



## soundboy

Best Buy Insignia speakers vs. Circuit City Sony SS-K30ED speakers (with photos)


----------



## tennisets

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_I guess speakers don't have too many moving parts (none? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

You're joking, right? How do you think a speaker makes sound? The drivers don't just magically produce sound, they produce sound by pushing air, and they push air by... well you get the idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## bozebuttons

Just ordered a system from Bestbuy for my son(he wanted a $350.00 boom box) with the insignia speakers 39.95 for the pair a 200w insignia reciever 87.95,a 12 inch Sony 150w subwoofer 159.95 ,a sony DVD player 68.99 & 
 speaker cables 15.99 all online.
 I will pick up the system tommorow all for $403 tax included.
 Much better system then the cheapass boom box he wanted.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bozebuttons* 
_Just ordered a system from Bestbuy for my son(he wanted a $350.00 boom box) with the insignia speakers 39.95 for the pair a 200w insignia reciever 87.95,a 12 inch Sony 150w subwoofer 159.95 ,a sony DVD player 68.99 & 
 speaker cables 15.99 all online.
 I will pick up the system tommorow all for $403 tax included.
 Much better system then the cheapass boom box he wanted._

 

Let us know how the Insignia receiver sounds with this setup (in context of the price point, of course).

 For fun I got our bedroom a pair of the speakers at $30 the pair, Sonus 31" stands at $35, 20ft. terminated cables for $9 -- but the old Mitsubishi receiver I'm using is the pits. I wondered how the Insignia receiver would sound... and if it's worth the $70 to improve on the crummy old receiver and still keep it a cheap-but-listenable system.


----------



## KevC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tennisets* 
_You're joking, right? How do you think a speaker makes sound? The drivers don't just magically produce sound, they produce sound by pushing air, and they push air by... well you get the idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ._

 

Circular permanent magnet surrounding a freely moving coil, which is attached to a cone shaped diaphragm. Alternating current flows through the coil and it starts moving. So yes, there are "moving parts". However, the mass is localised in the box therefore the coil will not have enough momentum and "way" to pose as a threat (i don't believe) if tossed around.

 I'd be more afraid of say... a hard drive being tossed around than a speaker. So effectively the moving parts in a speaker is almost none.


----------



## volcomjerk

I just got a pair of these after reading this thread. I just got my Dared MP5 Tube Amp and was looking for speakers to drive and I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread for 40 bucks they are a steal! (on sale at best buy)

 I cannot believe I was able to achieve this kind of sound with such cheap speakers. I was almost going to buy the 200 dollar bose speakers but I'm sure these sound WAY better. When I took them out I was so impressed by the quality and the finish on the front. It's definitely nice to share great sound with others and these speakers impress. I can hear EVERYTHING at low volume. When I start to turn up the volume though the bass starts to sound a little funny. Not distorted just more like a cheap instrument. It's not entirely bad it's just not as accurate as most would expect. It's still a fun speaker and I am more than satisfied and it only brought a smile to my face to know great sound can be had for such a low price. My wallet is happy!

 The soundstage is unbelievable and I actually wasn't expecting any. To me everything sounds great. I mean it's no reference speaker but they are so fun that I feel like buying another pair and bringing it to my office and sharing it with the crew.


----------



## Denim

ooheadso provided a link to a site that offered an upgrade kit consisting of crossover components, dampening material, etc. That appeared to improve these speakers, but at a cost of $95 (if I remember correctly). The article detailed the modifications and it would be worth it to see what can be done.

 I think that just stiffening the boxes and adding dampening them would improve the sound for very little money. Upgrading the caps could be considered, or other improvements. My point is that I believe these speakers can be improved without driving the cost up to $150. It's really a matter of how far you want to go with them.

 Here is the link again: http://www.gr-research.com/insignia.htm


----------



## Drewpy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevC* 
_I'd be more afraid of say... a hard drive being tossed around than a speaker. So effectively the moving parts in a speaker is almost none._

 

I'm much more concerned about the opposite. The box my speakers came in says in bold lettering "Useless if dropped".

 Hard drives are designed to withstand an impact in excess of 300G* (when the heads are in the parked position), or over 60G* when in operation. I'd be very afraid of what that kind of force would do to the cabinet, let alone the drivers of a speaker. You'd likely be left with a pile of rubble.

 And a not so common, but still valid "repair" method for a hard drive is to give it a good smack. This can sometimes restore drive operation long enough for you to copy the data off the drive before it's completely toast. It's worked once for me. Though I had a dead HDD (it didn't spin up), gave it a good whack off the table, and it spun up on the next boot. I got my data, and never used the drive again.



 *[size=xx-small]Seagate Barracuda 7200.9/10[/size]


----------



## KevC

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drewpy* 
_I'm much more concerned about the opposite. The box my speakers came in says in bold lettering "Useless if dropped".

 Hard drives are designed to withstand an impact in excess of 300G* (when the heads are in the parked position), or over 60G* when in operation. I'd be very afraid of what that kind of force would do to the cabinet, let alone the drivers of a speaker. You'd likely be left with a pile of rubble.

 And a not so common, but still valid "repair" method for a hard drive is to give it a good smack. This can sometimes restore drive operation long enough for you to copy the data off the drive before it's completely toast. It's worked once for me. Though I had a dead HDD (it didn't spin up), gave it a good whack off the table, and it spun up on the next boot. I got my data, and never used the drive again.



 *[size=xx-small]Seagate Barracuda 7200.9/10[/size]_

 

Okay, now I'm scared. Think several wrappings of bubble wrap around the box be okay?


----------



## TiredNinja

Any use the Insignia amp with these? I hear there is one at Best Buy for 70 bucks. Anyone else have a better idea than this, because I need something to power them as well. Think I'm going to pick up a pair tomorrow! By the way, those mods posted look interesting, it seems like a few of those could be done a lot cheaper (especially than 95 bucks). Anyway, anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!


----------



## I3eyond

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TiredNinja* 
_Any use the Insignia amp with these? I hear there is one at Best Buy for 70 bucks. Anyone else have a better idea than this, because I need something to power them as well. Think I'm going to pick up a pair tomorrow! By the way, those mods posted look interesting, it seems like a few of those could be done a lot cheaper (especially than 95 bucks). Anyway, anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!_

 

What Insignia amp are you talking about?


----------



## soundboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TiredNinja* 
_Any use the Insignia amp with these? I hear there is one at Best Buy for 70 bucks. Anyone else have a better idea than this, because I need something to power them as well. Think I'm going to pick up a pair tomorrow!_

 

I was looking at the Insignia stereo receiver yesterday ($100.00 at Best Buy store but cheaper on bestbuy.com). I have posted about this receiver before and everyone basically just bash it without ever hearing it. For $100.00, it's surprisingly well-equipped....pre-outs/main-ins and toroidal transformer. I am very tempted to pick it up myself and try it.


----------



## I3eyond

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_I was looking at the Insignia stereo receiver yesterday ($100.00 at Best Buy store but cheaper on bestbuy.com). I have posted about this receiver before and everyone basically just bash it without ever hearing it. For $100.00, it's surprisingly well-equipped....pre-outs/main-ins and toroidal transformer. I am very tempted to pick it up myself and try it._

 

Let us know!


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_I was looking at the Insignia stereo receiver yesterday ($100.00 at Best Buy store but cheaper on bestbuy.com). I have posted about this receiver before and everyone basically just bash it without ever hearing it. For $100.00, it's surprisingly well-equipped....pre-outs/main-ins and toroidal transformer. I am very tempted to pick it up myself and try it._

 


 On the previous page of this thread you'll notice that Bozebuttons just bought for his son (from BestBuy) a system "... with the insignia speakers 39.95 for the pair a 200w insignia receiver 87.95,a 12 inch Sony 150w subwoofer 159.95 ,a sony DVD player 68.99 & speaker cables 15.99...". Maybe they'll get around to posting their impressions, once it's set up.


----------



## TiredNinja

I noticed that, but I figured since it was for his son that there wouldn't be much posting going on : (

 Then again, sounds like dad is excited too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm going to go check these out at Best Buy tomorrow, maybe pick them up. I'll let you guys know what I think of the amp if I get a chance to check it out, but I'm mainly a headphone guy, so I won't really be much serious help. 

 If anyone knows of a better reciever for around 100, please let me know. I'm not really on top of these things. It sounded adequate for my purposes, but the quality probably isn't so hot. Then again, these speakers seem to be an anomaly, maybe the amp is too?


----------



## I3eyond

Question for you guys.. 

 I just bought these speakers, but I haven't gotten enough money for a receiver yet.

 I do have an old set of Logitech Z-560s. The sub is blown on them, but I was curious if it would hurt anything if I hooked the speakers up to the front left/right outputs on the sub's amp until I get a receiver. What do you guys think?


----------



## bozebuttons

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* 
_On the previous page of this thread you'll notice that Bozebuttons just bought for his son (from BestBuy) a system "... with the insignia speakers 39.95 for the pair a 200w insignia receiver 87.95,a 12 inch Sony 150w subwoofer 159.95 ,a sony DVD player 68.99 & speaker cables 15.99...". Maybe they'll get around to posting their impressions, once it's set up._

 

 My son Loves his subwoofer the most( I must have been crazy to let him buy it,vibrating the whole house).The receiver seems to be well worth the money,Not a world beater but hey we are talking $88 ,has a lot of features & doesn't sound bad ,Still need to pickup speaker stands& a small rack for his room.
 Also I found orderering online & picking stuff up at the store you get a better deal,then just going to the store & buying off the shelf.
 The subwoofer was 199.95 in the store,got it online for 159.95,the only thing that was priced the same was the DVD player,everything else was discounted online.


----------



## ooheadsoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *I3eyond* 
_Question for you guys.. 

 I just bought these speakers, but I haven't gotten enough money for a receiver yet.

 I do have an old set of Logitech Z-560s. The sub is blown on them, but I was curious if it would hurt anything if I hooked the speakers up to the front left/right outputs on the sub's amp until I get a receiver. What do you guys think?_

 

Should be ok. IIRC, the satellites were 4ohms, the insignias should be fine. But I hope you learned your lesson when blew that sub.


----------



## KevC

Has anyone compared these speakers to the Athena AS-B1 or B2s?


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bozebuttons* 
_My son Loves his subwoofer the most( I must have been crazy to let him buy it,vibrating the whole house).The receiver seems to be well worth the money,Not a world beater but hey we are talking $88 ,has a lot of features & doesn't sound bad ,Still need to pickup speaker stands& a small rack for his room.
 Also I found orderering online & picking stuff up at the store you get a better deal,then just going to the store & buying off the shelf.
 The subwoofer was 199.95 in the store,got it online for 159.95,the only thing that was priced the same was the DVD player,everything else was discounted online._

 

Thanks for the update. I'll need something like that Sony sub eventually. 

 Don't know if you're interested, but I got the Sanus 31" tall stands at Amazon for $34.95 with free shipping:

Amazon - Sanus 31" stands

 They're nothing fancy, but they're easy to assemble, innocuous matte black, and with velcro or blue tak the speakers will be stable (on the tiny platforms). I use the ABS spikes inserted in the base of mine. They must be innocuous because my wife doesn't hate them. When I get around to it, I might attach some lead weights on the underside of the bases.

 Speaking of innocuous, I'll bet if I get the Insignia receiver to replace the physically as well as sonically obnoxious ("silver" look) Hitachi receiver, my wife will be happier with the slim black appearance.


----------



## JaGWiRE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bozebuttons* 
_My son Loves his subwoofer the most( I must have been crazy to let him buy it,vibrating the whole house).The receiver seems to be well worth the money,Not a world beater but hey we are talking $88 ,has a lot of features & doesn't sound bad ,Still need to pickup speaker stands& a small rack for his room.
 Also I found orderering online & picking stuff up at the store you get a better deal,then just going to the store & buying off the shelf.
 The subwoofer was 199.95 in the store,got it online for 159.95,the only thing that was priced the same was the DVD player,everything else was discounted online._

 

 LOL. I'm a kid myself and just got some wharfedales. I'm such a bass junky, I'm already looking to buy an sub. I just wish you could walk into a store and they sold cheap, compact subs that matched my speakers well (crossover freq is 2.3 khz) and was relatively cheap and not 50 pounds. My room is small!


----------



## soundboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JaGWiRE* 
_I just wish you could walk into a store and they sold cheap, compact subs that matched my speakers well (crossover freq is 2.3 khz) and was relatively cheap and not 50 pounds._

 

2.3 kHz refers to the crossover point between your tweeter and woofer (assuming your Wharfedales are 2-way speakers). What you need to know is the low-frequency limits of your speakers. There're a number of under $200.00 powered sub that should fit your requirements.


----------



## music_man

i think i just figured out where to spend the balance of my bb gift card!

 is that the stock xover and magnet in the pictures on diyaudio?

 man, i have to wonder why i haven't been going to bb!

 assuming those pics are of stock it is absurd they can offer that for that price. see my post about the ar cables? how can they make any profit on stuff like this, even paying $.02/hour labor?

 for subs, i do not know what yamaha is making nowdays. 5 years ago yamaha was the only name in subs under $200 imho. all the other under $200 subs back then were "one note johnny's". the yamaha was actually somewhat musical.

 music_man


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## music_man

uh, i just read the entire thread at diyaudio.

 having wilsons and apogees to listen to, maybe i'll just get a couple of cd's lol.

 still, for 50 bux that is kind of amazing. so why don't the chinese make some $500 wilson wamm's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 edit: i wanted to add a thought to this and not hijack the thread with three posts in a row.

 at least three parties are making a profit on these. they have sold for $35.
 they look fancy. now that i have seen them apart they are not fancy at all.
 they are a lot of product even at $50. probably better than any other $50 pair. sometimes a whole is more than the sum of it's parts so i will go listen today hopefully. who knows? you know i am not the party pooper, but this is pushing it. by the time you are done modding(count your labor for something you deserve it) $300 speakers(pair) if choosen wisely should stomp these. that might look like it came from bw,jm,mk but looks can be deceiving.

 oh shux, i gotta go listen.... 

 music_man


----------



## music_man

got them. had to bring them back to work with me.

 first i sat them on top of some small genelec's. the genelec's walked all over them. that's no surprise. then after a few different a/b's i came to the red reveal's. now keep in mind eveanna manley used to love these. in some areas these beat the reveal's(control) in most other areas the reveal's take them down. again. no surprise. i think these might be the best speakers under $100 per pair right now. go up to $300 and beyond they will get clobbered. again. no surprise there.

 i think i have found a use for them though! they can replace ns10's(that's saying something, but not about good sound mind you). i think these represent what the average consumer would consider a big upgrade over what they currently have. at least the averegae bb shopper. in comparisen ,bb also had klipsch(not the horns of yore) and sony, these easily beat those.

 i can use these for monitoring to get an idea of how material will sound on an "average hi-fi". to that end i think they do actually serve better than ns10's.

 the fact that they made them coaxial of all things is actually amazing in and of itself regardless of their sound. coax drivers(and i don't mean car audio from jensen) are usually more than $500 for each driver! tannoy's higher end units are coax although many people(including) myself like the 2 ways better. so seeing them actually not fall flat on their face next to the reveal was impressive to say the least.

 however! i personally would not listen to these for pleasure if gr lined them with gold. but to be fair i have been weened on speakers of the ilk mentioned in my post above.

 if someone tells me how to get the baffles off without destroying them i am willing to stick a couple of polypro's in there and replace the egg crate with polycloud. i think those two simple things will make a big difference. the driver is actually rather impressive all considering. i want to try that $8 of stuff since i think gr got too carried away. for that price and amount of labor i'd look elsewhere.

 it still remains that a minimum of $400(per pair) is going to be your ticket into entry level audiophile loudspeakers. as far as i can see. if you are doing surround i do not see any problem with these in back. that was what they were designed for(by the manufacturer stated here) anyhow.

 one thing these speakers do very well is make you understand why much more expensive speakers are better in most cases. something that is very intresting is that i doubt an average bb shopper could hear the difference between these and the reveals. however, i am sure they could hear the difference between the insignia's and watt/puppys. then tell them the prices and bb has made yet another sale. you must realise that people on forums like this are a minority. most people would be elated with these. i did not mention the wilsons to be a fool(so no flames nescessary). i was making a point about the average consumer, thats all.

 btw, the only speaker cables i could find not in use cost 20 times what the speakers did, lol.

 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

I don't think you can take the baffle off, but you should be able to unscrew the drivers without any difficulty. Lining the cabinet is one thing, strengthening it with filler is another, both should be beneficial, but I'd definitely do the filler if I had to pick just one. Replacing xover parts with standard quality components rather than the fraction of a cent bulk buy parts would be interesting for not too much money. GR only deals in top notch quality parts and they do things whole hog - I wouldn't buy their kit, nor do they advertise it. It's just an option. I'm sure there have been more than one free for public use alternative xovers schematics published for the speaker on diyaudio's or madisound's or partsexpress's or hometheaterforum's forums. If you can do the work and buy regular xover parts, why not? If I had the speakers, I'd do the cabinet damping and find an alternative xover schematic to wire up. Wouldn't take too much money with your run of the mill solen caps etc. Bypass them with cheapie small value soniccaps.

 Most of all, mod them for fun and experience. If you don't want to work at it and spend hours of your time because the opportunity costs are too great, look elsewhere. Unless you're relatively experienced, it might take an afternoon's worth or more.


----------



## lini

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_(...) What you need to know is the low-frequency limits of your speakers. (...)_

 

Not really. With bookshelf Wharfedales, we can safely exspect these to easily hit 100 - 80 Hz without much loss in level, anyway. The actual -3 or -6 dB point or whatever of the Wharfedales is relatively unimportant - one would rather tune crossover frequency, volume and phase on the sub by ear. Mostly because room & placement will have quite a big impact on those settings - but is also depends on the individual amp/speaker & sub combo, how much offloading off bass work to the sub will be beneficial to the sound.

 Greetings from Hannover!

 Manfred / lini


----------



## music_man

i do not see any screws on the driver. in gr's picture he has the shiny baffle off. does anyone know how to get the driver out?

 in all honesty i don't know if it is worth it. yes, they are very good for $35-$50. i'd just leave it at that. most people should be able to afford $400 speakers. if you get the right $400 speakers and another $75 of parts you may very well have $1,000 speakers on your hands. i just don't see these giving that kind of return. they may be fancy looking but i can't see transforming them into even sounding like $400 stock units let alone $400 slightly modded units. for instance the reveal(which is a true bargain as is nht) already comes stock with poly caps and other good components. now upgrade those to oil and paper and go to thicker inductors etc. you start having some serious equipment on the cheap. these insignias i feel are too cheap to even work with. the real problem is the mess they made slotting the case. i don't mean to be a foofoo but it's just not there even though i kind of hoped it was. they sure do look like $800 speakers though. if they did the whole cabinet in the gloss like the front they would look like $2,000 speakers. but this isn't about looks as far as i am concerned.

 i put them up against some old bose and klh's (both under $100 ten years or so ago) and both easily beat these beleive it or not. those two aformentioned speakers do not even have a proper xover. like a cap and inductor glued to the spring terminal(no binding posts even). well thats all these have really it just so happens to be on a pcb which is intresting. they might have figured people would open them and it would hit the net. pretty smart marketing actually. they were also easily taken by 10 year old infinitys and jbl's of that price. of course today those companies products will be beaten by these insignia's.

 i doubt i will return them since it was a gift card and i really hate that place.
 i did manage to get a decent coax cable there believe it or not.

 what i said about the wamm before was kind of stupid in retrospect. but i don't see why the chinese could not charge $500 at retail and make us some dynaudio special 25's(or sonus faber concertinos) for this size speaker. that i would be running to buy. it probably exists already. clue me in?

 anyhow, for the person that only has $50 i'd go get lunch. seriously though check pawn shops. if you know what you are looking at you would be surprised what turns up for 50 smackers. just make sure they are healthy.

 intrestingly i find pawn shops a lot more welcoming than bb. yeah, i am weird.

 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

That's why I haven't bothered, either. I'm just not in the market for an entry level speaker, be it $35 or $1000 (commercial.) You do have to get lucky at pawn shops though. A simple refoam job will cost you the price of the insignias, and that's if you do it yourself. Not sure I agree with you about the OIP caps, but to each his own.

 Issues with China include quality control, management, and market. AFAIK, the well run shops are all O&O (owned and operated) by foreign companies/investors. On the other hand, surely you have heard of the Aurum Cantus Leisure monitors which cost around $400 before shipping and the Red Rose Music Mark Levinson monitor which costs $2000. Same speaker. These kind of things're out there, but come on, this is audio, where people regular disregard measurements and go with whatever floats their boat. Who really believes that the Aurum Cantus Leisure bookshelf is REALLY the same as the Red Rose bookshelf? Same goes with a bunch of the big name amplifier companies like korsun and dussun and their krell counterparts costing 10-20x more. To run this kind of operation in China where a product costs somewhere in the hundreds of dollars range, you need to be either filthy rich (corrupt or govt or both and most likely have no interest in running an honest company) or foreign, in which case, you'll probably sell it for what the market will pay, not $500, and if you have good management, it'll be hard for them to sneak around and sell aurum cantus leisure bookshelves behind your back. Not too sure what's going on there, anyhow, you may know by now that Aurum Cantus is now an extremely well known manufacturer of ribbon tweeters, but these bookshelves using one of their ribbons surfaced well before they found their niche. 

 Well, there really are too many economic factors to say anything definitive without writing a book.

 Btw, I don't know if this was mentioned but you can easily diy your own blackhole5 or norez by using heavy vinyl tiles and chopped carpet foam or more expensive foam if you want to get spendy for no real reason. I recommend using extra glue on the tiles from experience.

 I don't know how to take off the shiny baffle but I suspect it has to do with removing the grill mounts.

 And btw, I know this has probably been posted, but here it is again, anyway:
Zaph's measurements and xover suggestions
DLR's driver tweaks
 I should probably note that if you try DLR's driver mods, don't do Zaph's xover, wait for DLR's xover that deals with the modded woofer.


----------



## music_man

honestly i just want to return them, but i hate that friggen place.

 the aurum is even fancier looking then the insignias. this chinese stuff is all flash. smoke and mirrors. personally i am not in the market for this stuff either.

 when you buy wilson,mk,jm,bw you know what you are getting.
 i mean come on, a focal or scanspeak tweeter is 5-10 times the price of those speakers. like i said, at least 3 parties are making a profit here. i really don't want to be party to this myself. not for political reasons though. i'd rather just cut through the maze and get the quality product in the first place.

 a micro utopia be doesnt even look this flashy but it will send these packing right back to china. sure, it is a "little" more money but you get what you pay for.

 mark levinson is putting his name on this kind of stuff now? man, i have so totally lost faith in him. first the lexus. now this? madrigal used to be the last word in hi-fi. now it is a stinking harmon product. he is selling his name to everyone.

 which brings me right back to the pawn shop! i personally know what i am looking at. for folks that do not, forget that idea. the reason i go there is because mark levinson of years gone by is a whole heck of a lot nicer than todays ml. same with krell and all the others. what is wrong with getting a pair of kef 107/5 for $200 and reconing or new surround diy for another $200? 
 i recently got magnaplanars with destroyed fabric for $350. had them reupholstered for another $150. this type of stuff is going to serve as much better bargains than to go sniffing out deals at a local bb store.

 why no oip caps? the tannoys actually have mylar. i thought they were poly. upon more scrutiny, the tannoys turn the insignias into sawdust. of course that is no surprise. at the time people couldn't believe those were only $400.
 pretty much every speaker i own will stomp on these. i am including ones that were this price over 10 years ago.

 anyone that is in the market for(new) $50 speakers, this is it. just don't go thinking you are buying anything remotely "reference" class. you cannot make them reference class either regardless of what you do to them. by reference class i mean stereophile 'a' list. these wouldn't even get an 'f' if it existed. i would not by any means go sink another $100 into modding these. that is futile.

 ok, sorry for once to be unhappy with something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i think the problem is just my usual "standards". many bb shoppers will love these.

 edit: it is the grill mounts holding the bafle, and some really sticky glue. once apart these are even less impressive than they sound. you are not finding dove tails here. no sir. you aint finding a puppy tail either(if you know wilsons you get that). anyhow, they are still impressive for 50 bucks. just keep in mind what 50 bucks normally buys in a pair of loudspeakers.

 oh, and i am a 500 member now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

Aurum cantus full size ribbon tweets run around $250-350 each, so I'm not sure what you mean by them being flash. They're the real deal, and I'd roughly guesstimate that half of the speaker diyers using ribbon tweeters are choosing the aurum cantus models due to their performance and measurements. The retail on a scanspeak tweeter is in the same ballpark and manufacturers no doubt get it for around $50-100 in bulk.

 On the other hand, Chinese products can look good for no extra money because labor is practically free in terms of USD.

 It all depends on what you're trying to get out of a speaker. The only reason I find the insignia interesting is because of the power response, polar response, and imaging afforded by a concentric design. If you're looking for fidelity, look elsewhere.


----------



## music_man

ok. i didn't realise aurum was actually a quality product. i thought it was just good looking. so this is the same as the red rose? and where did ml put his name on that? i don't see it on their site.

 i am sure there are great looking speakers from well known high end manufacturers like the dynaudio special 25 or sonus faber concertino that will be a much more solid investment. it is like the plethora of chinese microphones on the market. they are fun and intresting but if you want a telefunken look elsewhere.

 i don't know anything about the aurum, but i am wary of any product from china that costs 1/5th. of competing products from established countries.
 like you said, management,quality control etc. the savings does not come without cost unfortunately. this is in regard to $500 products, not $50 ones mind you.

 i am not in the market for something like this anyhow so it doesnt matter to me.

 i was intrested to see what the hype was about. the fact that it is coaxial is pretty cool for the money. however, the sound is marginal at best.
 i do think that to an average bb shopper these would sound terrific though.
 these people are coming from plastic computer speakers. which i may point out can cost as much as the insignias and they are at least better than those.

 one thing i do not hear is the imaging you speak of. i did expect that from a coaxial. but i think i expected a little to much since as far as coax is concerned i a/b'd them with $3,000 tannoy's. incedently i find the tannoy's to be the best coax design. better than the kef's which i think have gone the way of everything else these days, south. tannoy is pro gear so it has stayed in it's roots. it also has a super tweeter on top. not a fair comparisen at all, i know this. also m&k that i use professionally which is a standard 2 way with small driver arrays, has imaging that has you looking behind your back in a 2 channel system. what the heck did i expect from these? it is not like when everyone says k701's are going to be great. it was unlikely to begin with that those would let too many people down. 

 these are if nothing else a lesson in the economics of emerging countries. i think this product represents china very well at the moment. i do not mean that in a derogatory way by any means. in fact, to the contrary.

 i don't really see a reason to keep them though. even though i dread going back in there. they offer nothing to someone like me other than intresting observation.

 on the other hand, the chinese cable that i got(other than it's stinky solder job) is a keeper. cables seemingly require different manufacturing practices and actually can be made decent for cheap. it is not a nordost by any means, but i bet something like audioquest is simply marked up to 5x it's actual manufacturing cost. so with that in mind, taking less of a profit or using less expensive labor(evident from the solder job) can make them competitive. good loudspeakers take hours/days of labor and even at chinese prices would exclude them from stores like bb and cc which is their niche market. audiophiles are not looking for stuff like this ,or shopping at bb or cc. i found going in there an intresting experience in and of it self. 20 kinds of offensive music blasting at once, lol.

 the fact that bb has actually commissioned the insignia line (of cheap chinese produced) products also shows how large of a market share a place like bb controls. you did mention having to be filthy rich to do something like this. i assume the proprietors of bb are indeed.

 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

Btw, the price I'm quoting on the aurum ribbon is with one middleman only, aurum + distributor afaik. 

 If you go to the redrosemusic.com website, the far right column mentions Mark Levinson's name right off the bat. I don't think anyone knows if it's the real red rose deal, and aurum certainly doesn't claim that it is. 5 or so years ago, before aurum cantus became well known, it just happened to be that these aurum cantus speakers were available via Hong Kong and were, as far as anyone could tell, 100% identical to the red rose. I'm not sure they offer it in the same finish, any more. There was quite a buzz about these for a year or so in certain circles, I'm sure ML/Redrose dealt with it in a way that was satisfactory for both parties since they're both still here.

 The speakers are good for the price, I don't know if you can expect a whole lot more. The fact is that if you just need to use these for HT, and for the average listener who just wants to enjoy music and isn't a nitpicking fanatic or an pro sound guy, or wanna be music guy like me, it'd probably do just fine. In my own HT, I'm happy as a clam with my cheapo polks that I use in 4 channel surround for a grand total of $135 or so. Sounds fantastic for what I ask of it. I don't listen to music and nitpick them, and it works for me. I save that for my 2 channel rig, and I curse my room acoustics every day.

 Btw, there's chinese direct and merely made in china. I'm not sure if you're distinguising. Scanspeaks are made in china.


----------



## music_man

that is a very good point. china direct is a whole different quality than comissioned "jobbed out" products. even made in china per certain specs and with a direct handle on qc like presonus is fine quality. shanling themsleves is better than what they sell to other companies to market.

 i think chinese factories do have the technology to make top quality high end products. it is just that normally china is associated with products like the insignia rather than aurum or scanspeak. the quality chinese products are certainly out there, it is just that they are not mainstream yet.

 in a while china could be producing products like sony did in the eighties. look at sony now. it's evolution. sony was once unheard of rubbish then it became great. now it has settled down to average consumer electronics. maybe china will follow. i am not one to predict these things. i am not an economist. i do find it intresting, and for someone in this hobby to get in on the ground floor is not bad at all for us(audiophiles). 

 i am sure plenty of people missed out on $300 sony products that were classic and cutting edge and now sell for more than they did new. so i am keeping a close eye on these chinese products. if bb was selling something of the aurum quality for the price they sell their klipsch for i'd be on top of that. not that i need anything lke that but i collect way too much stuff anyhow.

 i hope we see bb start selling stuff for a few hundred that retains the apparent value of these insignias. could you imagine that? i really would like to see the china direct stuff be avaialable at retail outlets. that would be great. what this does to us economy is a different issue but personally does not concern me. i am first and foremost a consumer and not a political activist.

 the aurum may be very good and so may be it's red rose counterpart. however i am very dissapointed in mr. levinson nowdays. even at $2,000 that is not what someone from my time grew to expect from him. the lexus is the same deal. he planted his roots making only no holds barred audio equipment. even at the $2,000 price point(and assuming they are a good value at that) i feel that he has sold out. it does not even matter that it may actually be a $500 set. that just makes things look even worse for him. i never thought i'd see him putting his name on $2,000 stuff, especially if it is only $500 stuff.
 then stock car radios? even if it is a top brand of automobile.
 he is obviously a victem of capitalism.

 i remember when he was a young cutting edge designer and that quality was previously unheard of.

 he was at 24 bit 10 years before it became commonplace.

 anyways, you are right. i think after all i will keep these. they are actually above average. it is my personal problem to go compare them to wilsons. most average people have never heard wilsons in a store, so these would be pretty darn good to average folk.

 oh, and i have a dedicated live end-dead end and still nitpick. so you can see where i am coming from. i would be considered a fanatic or "nut" in bb type circles. quite frankly i was just too criticle of these. they are actually fine. especially considering the money involved. i still would not bother "improving" them. that is better spent on products that can really shine once improvements have been made. after 2 days with them, as they stand they represent a fine value even though they are not reference quality and were not intended to be so. i simply expected the impossible. now that i have come back down to earth regarding these i'll find some use for them somewhere.

 edit: i did not realise this is actually mr. levinsons own company. he left cello to have his stuff manufacturerd in china?
 maybe it is just the state of the industry. a manager at tweeter recently told me they can no longer sell $20,000 transports and even the krell sacd standard is hard for them to move at this point. musicdirect might be different since the internet offers them different levels of exposure. these red rose are either a far cry from cello grand stradivari or you simply can make great stuff for low prices today. i don't know which. i havent heard the red rose. i want to!


 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

I submit to you that they are probably head over tails better than my polk R15 I bought for a fistful of dollars on sale. It all depends on if you have an application for them. For me, I hate direct radiation for surround channels unless it's a one man home theater, and that's what I'd use them for if I purchased them, so the insignias really don't do much for me. I wouldn't use them for mains, they don't have the cabinet volume to do any real bass. It sounds like you have plenty of speakers, and there're plenty of electronic goodies to peruse at BB, just not many audio related ones that would interest higher end folks like us. If I didn't already have my chump change polks, I'd probably have picked up a pair, as well.

 How do you like your LEDE setup? I can't manage a dedicated room and I've never gotten close to having my speakers properly set up. This conversation could probably benefit everyone in the thread if they're interested in setting their insignias up.


----------



## flashbackk

I haven't reread this entire thread lately, so if this has been posted already I am sorry.

 Everybody talks about GR's upgrade for the BB's. Has anyone tried Zalph's notch filter and sock trick yet???? Much cheaper.

 edit: added the link I forgot about a week later sheeesh sorry about that

http://www.zaphaudio.com/Insignia.html


----------



## music_man

i put them on a driverack. now they actually sound like maybe $400 speakers.
 this would be kind of silly for most people though since a driverack costs many times what these speakers do. the behrenger ripoff of the dr would be right up these speakers alley but even that is like $300 i think. on the dr i can at least stand to listen to them for a few minutes.

 i just don't like big stores with lot's of children and a lot of noise plus rude and incompetent staff. if i wanted an ipod i'd probably go to a tweeter or something. it is an american mainstay like walmart but i am too old fashioned for these places. thats just me personally. they don't need me anyhow the're doing fine without me. 

 i did not get the insignias anywhere near the lede. i couldn't even imagine how nuts i would go if i bumped something out of place in there. i am not even carrying shoebox size packages in there.

 i figure it could be a lot better. in all honesty maybe 2% of the population would even do that to begin with. i am just a fanatic with some things(audio).
 even many audiophiles might be impressed, but i am always looking for better/more. i'd like to hear mr. burwen's system. it is probably better than mine. well, it is certainly bigger! i don't know what the deal is with ml, he is into computer sources now even. again, call me old fashioned. i won't even buy new tubes.

 as i mentioned i find the best values in used older stuff. so my investment is not as big as it may seem. i have a knack for relieving second hand stores of stuff they know nothing about. in that regard you can actually do a whole lot better than these insignias for say $150.

 something intresting though. these insignias seem to sound ok one moment and terrible the next. so i took measurements over several hours and they are changing. i do not mean from break in either. one is exhibiting strange behaviour. it may be the tweeter or xover going bad. it appears low frequencies are making it to the tweeter from what i can see. but it may just be the spider pooping out and not a bad cap in the xover. i wouldn't put it above qc at this price and my luck as usual too. no way am i going back in a bb though!

 i have not given them over maybe 40 watts, so i did not cook them which can happen quickly from the way i saw the motors working on these. so everyone can have a good laugh i am powering them with some no. 20.6's that i just got done repairing. those are tricky to repair. so if one amp goes nuts, at least expensive speakers are not being sacrificed. of course when i am sure those amps are working they will not be powering insignias,lol.
 it is not a bad amp that caused the apparent problem. they are stable at the moment. when one of those goes sour after a repair there is smoke and fireworks and that has not happened yet. knock on wood.

 btw, if you can find an rs that has it, 12ga. megacable is on clearance for 29 cents per foot. perfect for the insignias. rs is actually one store i love. they constantly decide they can't sell stuff and end up nearly giving it away. only store i know that regularly does that.

 music_man


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## Pibborando

I have a question regarding what exactly to hook these speakers up to if I get them.

 I've got nice headphones, but haven't invested much... at all into speakers. I want to have something that sounds good when I'm not listening to my headphones, and the price/performance value on these just seems too good to pass up so I am going to pick them up from my local Best Buy as soon as they come back in stock.

 Now, I want to know if I already have a source that could power these guys, at least until I get an actual reciever. You see, right now, all I have is an old AIWA CX-NA555 mini stereo system on my shelf (eh...) and my Logitech Z-640 5.1 system at my computer (I know...). So, first of all, I thought, could I just hook the Insignias to the AIWA stereo (replacing the existing speakers)? I think it only has 110W total output though, so 55W per speaker wouldn't be too great.
 Would it also be possible to hook them up to my Z-640, through the subwoofer, (replacing the front two speakers) somehow?

 I have a feeling that the only real answer will be to go out and get a real reciever... but I just wanted to know if I had any interim options.

 Thanks


----------



## ooheadsoo

yes, to both.


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## Pibborando

Well, I just bought a reciever off of eBay. A Sherwood RX4103, for $10.50. The 105W output for each channel should power the Insignias well.
 Thing is, it's not in working order. Seller says it powers on and then off a couple seconds later. I would like to repair it, because I've read that this reciever is decent, but I wouldn't know how to diagnose the problem. Has anyone had experience with this reciever or a similar malfunction?

 Thanks


----------



## music_man

why did you buy it if you do not know how to repair it? 

 $10.50 was a darn good deal, but now you have to bring it to a repair shop that due to the state of throw away electronics these days will charge you what a decent receiver like a sony es might cost. maybe i'm wrong you might be lucky and they only charge $65. anyhow, do not even open it if you do not know what you are doing. it will not hesitate to kill you(i'm not joking).

 actually the reason i just posted is because i now have a different impression of these insignias.

 they are currently powered by an old luxman amp, eq'd by a driverack and crossed over to a sunfire jr. it sounds like $1,000 floor speakers. but go figure because the luxman is worth $500, the drive rack is $700 and the sunfire i think is about $900. so of course. what is of real intrest though is that after 150 hours of break in they do sound much better. even with 2 grand of stuff behind them, out of the box they stunk. honestly if i was going to use the other components in this little system i'd at least be looking at $500 speakers.
 it does not matter to me because i repair stuff and have all this sitting around anyhow for one reason or another(trash dump,auction,pawn shop, people didn't pay me...). so they are actually ok. indeed worth $50(or $35 better yet). quite frankly, with a $150 yamaha sub and some electrolytics bypassed with polys right on the wires these could be maybe the best you can get for under $400! by themsleves they are just ok.

 i was looking at some different bookshelves from the eighities to nineties at a store yesterday in the under $300 range(i was there for other bussiness). these were all $500-$800 new. i didn't see any of them being better than these when set up like i just mentioned. i am talking about old kef,b&w etc.

 i know i can be accused of always changing my mind. but let's not be too critical here,ok? these are less than dinner at a good resturant.
 with a sub and filter(total $220 incl. insiginias) i bet you'd have to triple that price before you got notably better performance from shoebox size speakers.
 again, the key here is the sub and filter.

 music_man


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## Pibborando

Sorry for the additional question but I just stumbled upon some old Mirage MBS's.
http://miragespeakers.com/PDFs/class...BSbrochure.pdf (The smaller ones) They were used as surrounds in my parents old entertainment set-up, but have been sitting in their closet for years. Parents said I could have them.

 Now, has anyone had experience with these speakers and would/should they sound better than the Insignias? These speakers have cones on both sides (bi-polar, right?), which I find very interesting and wondered if that offered any advantages. Would the placement in the room be different? I think these were around $300 when they came out (1996 I think), so would the $50 Insignias beat them?

 The one thing I did notice was the MBS's frequency range starts a bit high, at 120Hz, where as the Insignias start at 50Hz. I am definately going to put a subwoofer in this system, but I was just wondering how the experience might differ.

 Thanks

 edit @ music_man: No, I was not planning on trying to repair the reciever my self. I've got an uncle who's job it is to repair electronics (stereos, computers, hospital x-ray machines, whatever) and I thought I'd have him take a look at it. If that fails, then maybe I'll just buy a new reciever.


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## velogreg

Actually music_man, I appreciate the fact that you do not let ego stand in the way of sharing your honest observations, even when they change or you discover a mistake. 

 I agree with your comments on the Insignias as well. I took these on as a tweak project just for fun, not really expecting much. The addition or change of the electrolytic-poly caps with some 50+ hours of breakin and adding water putty to the insides of the cabinet to reduce resonance adds some real detail to the sound. Exceeds expectations for the purpose intended.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_why did you buy it if you do not know how to repair it? 

 $10.50 was a darn good deal, but now you have to bring it to a repair shop that due to the state of throw away electronics these days will charge you what a decent receiver like a sony es might cost. maybe i'm wrong you might be lucky and they only charge $65. anyhow, do not even open it if you do not know what you are doing. it will not hesitate to kill you(i'm not joking).

 actually the reason i just posted is because i now have a different impression of these insignias.

 they are currently powered by an old luxman amp, eq'd by a driverack and crossed over to a sunfire jr. it sounds like $1,000 floor speakers. but go figure because the luxman is worth $500, the drive rack is $700 and the sunfire i think is about $900. so of course. what is of real intrest though is that after 150 hours of break in they do sound much better. even with 2 grand of stuff behind them, out of the box they stunk. honestly if i was going to use the other components in this little system i'd at least be looking at $500 speakers.
 it does not matter to me because i repair stuff and have all this sitting around anyhow for one reason or another(trash dump,auction,pawn shop, people didn't pay me...). so they are actually ok. indeed worth $50(or $35 better yet). quite frankly, with a $150 yamaha sub and some electrolytics bypassed with polys right on the wires these could be maybe the best you can get for under $400! by themsleves they are just ok.

 i was looking at some different bookshelves from the eighities to nineties at a store yesterday in the under $300 range(i was there for other bussiness). these were all $500-$800 new. i didn't see any of them being better than these when set up like i just mentioned. i am talking about old kef,b&w etc.

 i know i can be accused of always changing my mind. but let's not be too critical here,ok? these are less than dinner at a good resturant.
 with a sub and filter(total $220 incl. insiginias) i bet you'd have to triple that price before you got notably better performance from shoebox size speakers.
 again, the key here is the sub and filter.

 music_man_


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## YamiTenshi

Just a heads up BB is having a two day sale for speakers (Fri-Sat). These things are 20% off = $40.


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## sbulack

Wodgy! Look at what you started here!!!
 Thank you.


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## Pibborando

The Insignias are now coming, as well as a Denon DRA-625R receiver that I won on eBay. Will the Denon work fine (65W outputs) or should I try to get the Sherwood working (105W outputs)?


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## music_man

oh darnit! i missed the better sale this weekend. now all i can get back today is $5. lol. well knowing bb, the clerk is probably so inept he/she will just refund the whole price(while i keep the speakers of course) haha.

 well, i put a couple of real cheap illinois capacitor company polys in there and a couple of bobbin type radioshack inductors. the xover is stuck in there pretty good. i honestly do not see doing better than these for under $250(pair) at this point. my upgrade is worth like $15.

 from an engineering standpoint i cannot see how stuffing these full of water putty makes anything better. i am sure it does since everyone is doing it.
 i find that too be too much of a pain so i'll pass on that.

 realise that the sides being rounded (even though the slots make them so thin) with a front baffle that is over 1" thick and a x-brace, for their size they are quite rigid. i am sure the thinner spots cause resonance, hence the water putty idea. with a little time i think i can figure out a better and easier way to fill in the slots than the water putty. we'll see.

 anyways, the reason my original perception of these changed is that i always have reference class loudspeakers in mind. once i came back to earth for a few moments i realised that at their price point these are indeed quite a bargain after all. intrestingly these are pretty much better than any other units bb sells in bookshelves. even at $350. that is just bb of course though.

 music_man


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## ak622

Does anyone know if these cheap little speakers are coming up to Canada? They have been out in the States for a while but I haven't seen them at Bestbuy Canada...


----------



## Joey_V

Heard the famous Insignias today. Thought they were OK.

 Highs were sort of sibilant and they certainly had a sort of dark character to the sound - like the midrange was a little held back. Bass was quick, but no extension... though this is not a negative since this is a bookshelf we are talking about.

 I felt the center fill was decent and there was decent imaging, mostly due to its point source sort of woofer/tweeter combination.

 Overall, I liked it for what it did right... and you cant go wrong at $40 or $50.

 I was going to keep the Insignias, but they're going back because I cant handle sibilance. 

 They're still a steal though.


----------



## searchenabler

I purchased a pair of these to give to my dad to use in his work shed. I figured this would give me a chance to give him a little gift and to get some entertainment as well.

 I wanted to know how much effect simple cabinet modifications would make, audibly. I used 1/3" - 1/2" total thickness of Peel N' Seal roof flashing material, built up in layers, on all inside surfaces. This material is very similar to Dynamat, but is much cheaper. Functionally, this material prevents the walls from being able to oscillate after a stimulus signal. The walls will still transmit sound, but they will not be able to 'ring' as they normally would. I then removed the useless 1" convoluted foam(not even an acoustic foam from what I could tell -- just ordinary foam with a pathetic acoustic co-efficient) and used 2" thick 8 lb. ft^3 density mineral wool board, which has an extreme high co-efficient for acoustical purposes. I recorded, at various angles(using a rotational measurement turntable) a series of test signals and tracks in an anechoic tunnel(effective down to about 400Hz) consisting of an impulse(for time sync later on in software), MLS(for frequency response and energy storage analysis with a high noise immunity, unlike the pure impulse which is prone to room noise contamination), classical music, hard rock sample, easy listening rock and pink noise. I recorded the speaker using a calibrated measurement microphone and then applied the calibration data to the recorded signals. I measured the speaker in the same spot, with the same levels, in both unmodified and modified forms. I compared actual sound by using the ABX plug-in that Foobar has available as an option. I used the impulse signal mentioned earlier in the first part of the recording to align the signals. I then applied reverb/delays to approximate a well damped room, as according to perceptual research by Toole and Olive, resonances are much easier to detect in reverberant fields(a real room or simulated). I used a Beyerdynamics DT-880 and a Sony MDR-V6 for the listening tests with the ABX software. I could identify most parts of the music samples with relative ease. The pink noise had a huge difference in sound. The room simulation samples had even bigger differences(no surprise). The speaker sounded 'hollow' before the modifications; that's the best description I can give. When I tried to A/B an unmodified speaker vs. the modified one, the differences were even greater than in the sample files. But I should point out that the speakers were sitting side by side, so they were not in the same point in space(physical laws and all that, you know) and this was sighted(as opposed to blinded) evaluation. I find the speaker to be unacceptable before modification. Afterwards, it's still unacceptable for my personal use, but not nearly as repulsive as before the modification. For $40 plus modification costs, I think it's an awesome bargain. The modifications made very substantial difference(s). I believe that if someone likes the speaker before the modification(s), then they will enjoy it a great deal more after the modification(s). But I should point out that I have extremely high standards for sound quality -- so please forgive my statements of repulsiveness. An interesting detail about this speaker is the off axis performance. This speaker, unlike most, has a very linear off axis reduction in high frequency and upper midrange response as you increase horizontal angle. Most speakers have a ragged[in the upper midrange and low treble], unpredictable amplitude response as you move off axis.

http://www.linaeum.com/images/insign...e_smoothed.gif

_Please ignore the 350 Hz dip. The measurement tunnel rapidly loses control of energy below approximately 400Hz. The dip is a result of some sort of boundary reflection(s). Note that this is a smoothed response chart set. The unsmoothed set is not easily readable because of the severe comb filtering apparently caused by the horn loading of the tweeter(which in effect this coaxial design is producing) as you approach extreme off axis angles._

 Chris


----------



## music_man

when i first got them, i honestly did expect to hear some watt/puppy goodness. then reality set in. $50, er $40 ahh well. a good bottle of liquor is easily twice that price so who even cares(that's why i'm not bothering returning them).

 to the person coming from plastic computer speakers of the same price these are an upgrade indeed.

 they ended up costing me $39. i am using them to weight down mini utopia be's in my ht front channels! 

 Joey_V, i find them very unsibilant. i also hate 'ssss'. in fact i find them dull,hollow,dead. most people that know good audio said they sound 'hollow'.
 their off axis response is neat though, as has been noted.

 searchenabler, i sure hope you already had that roll of peel 'n' seal. it is certainly cheaper than dynamat but afaik only comes in 40' rolls for $70!
 the fact that you spent the time on these that you did(or anyone for that matter) seems kind of futile to me. you cannot turn bronze into gold!

 i can 'stand' them. saying that you cannot is like saying you can't stand something less than an e-class to drive. there is a lot worse. ever hear the name 'juster"? haha.

 music_man


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## searchenabler

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_searchenabler, i sure hope you already had that roll of peel 'n' seal. it is certainly cheaper than dynamat but afaik only comes in 40' rolls for $70!
 the fact that you spent the time on these that you did(or anyone for that matter) seems kind of futile to me. you cannot turn bronze into gold!


 music_man_

 

The time to perform the modification is not very long. Maybe 1.5-2 hours for both speakers, if it's your first time. The measurement, recording and analysis to determine sound difference objectively did take a substantial investment in time, however. I highly doubt that anyone else would put this effort into this(or other speakers for that matter) product. However, I feel it is important to try to get an accurate assessment of changes instead of the unreliable evaluation methods typically used when comparing something. Besides, for me, the analysis stage is perhaps most enjoyable part.

 The Peel N' Seal is about $14 for a 25' roll at my local Lowe's Home Improvement Center. It did take almost two rolls. So, $28, + about $1 worth of the mineral board to fill them out. The mineral wool board may be difficult for most to get, as it is usually only found at contractor insulation sales outlets, and then only in large bundles. However, I will gladly sell enough for modification to anyone who wants some, for actual cost plus shipping(probably $2 plus $7 shipping; just a guess). Around $75-80 total is probably possible, assuming one buys the speaker when it is on sale. The sound is very impressive for this total cost, IMO. The improvement was substantial, and easily ABXable. With the modification, it would definitely make a superb computer speaker for someone coming off of some of those popular Klipsche things. However, I feel that an active crossover (should be doable with many 5.1 sound cards, which now have LF management abilities) and a subwoofer is required to get the best sound quality. As with almost any non-horn-loaded small sized mid-woofer, non-linear distortion[and possibly intermodulation phase distortion] becomes a problem at around medium[75dBa] and higher SPLs when allowing the small mid-woofer to reproduce bass. I can not recommend the product, even for computer use, in good faith, without the modifications, however.

 Chris


----------



## Eisenhower

I was thinking about pairing these up with the insignia 2 channel receiver.

 Would this work well If I ran an rca cable from my comp's emu 0404 to the receiver?


----------



## cantsleep

couldnt resist..

 my computer speakers can take a long break now..


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## cantsleep

opened the box. and wonder.. no wires..

 do i have to buy the wires seperately?


----------



## SysteX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cantsleep* 
_opened the box. and wonder.. no wires..

 do i have to buy the wires seperately?_

 


 Yes, you'll need to get some speaker wire. Anything larger than 18ga or so should be fine (Note: 12ga is larger than 14ga, which is larger than 18ga--it's a slightly counterintuitive naming convention).


----------



## cantsleep

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SysteX* 
_Yes, you'll need to get some speaker wire. Anything larger than 18ga or so should be fine (Note: 12ga is larger than 14ga, which is larger than 18ga--it's a slightly counterintuitive naming convention)._

 


 tested with 26 ga silver plated copper and it sounds pretty good. i guess ill make a pair of IC asap..


----------



## SysteX

It really depends on the power rating of your amp. If you go with 14-18ga, you should be fine for anything. If 26ga is working for you and sounds great, go for it.


----------



## cantsleep

switched to 3 strands of 26 on each so.. 12 strands, left and right channel, altogether.. it works, it works..

 it's pretty late at night so.. i cant really test this.. ill have to wait 'til day to test this thing for real..


----------



## Electro Point

Damn how could I have missed this thread.
 Those speakers look very interesting.
 (Not just the shape of the enclosure but like the front cover has a high gloss shine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Plus it uses carbon fiber cone. lol)

 After reading all the reviews on these speakers seems like they perform like a $100 shelf speaker but at half the cost.
 I'm looking into buying these sometime soon.

 Does it acutally have like a 5-way binding post in the back of the speaker or am I forced to use banana plugs?
 Also is there any other info I should be noted about these speakers?


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Electro Point* 
_After reading all the reviews on these speakers seems like they perform like a $100 shelf speaker but at half the cost.
 I'm looking into buying these sometime soon.

 Does it acutally have like a 5-way binding post in the back of the speaker or am I forced to use banana plugs?
 Also is there any other info I should be noted about these speakers?_

 

They have binding posts. Very nice ones, actually, however, I think the spacing is wrong if you have dual banana plugs. The people I have played these for have guessed the price to be anywhere between $200 and $1000


----------



## Electro Point

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hirsch* 
_They have binding posts. Very nice ones, actually, however, I think the spacing is wrong if you have dual banana plugs. The people I have played these for have guessed the price to be anywhere between $200 and $1000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok thanks!


 hahaha... I do agree these speakers look like some of the "high-end" speakers that you would normally find in an audio hi-fi shop going for like $300. 
 If I didn't know the brand nor know where you acutally brought it, I would be fooled these are real entry-level speakers just by looking at it.


----------



## flamerz

I did a bit of research, but I'm too lazy right now to do extensive searching. Could someone give me a simple answer of whether or not a T-amp would be suitable for these speakers? Thanks.


----------



## MrSlacker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flamerz* 
_I did a bit of research, but I'm too lazy right now to do extensive searching. Could someone give me a simple answer of whether or not a T-amp would be suitable for these speakers? Thanks._

 

T-amp should be fine.
 I am picking up a pair tomorow for my cousin's rig


----------



## music_man

i actually decided i really like these. go figure. with a sub and active xover they can best a lot of the $300-$400 junk also at cc and bb. that is not saying they are great. it is saying there are worse speakers for 5 times their price. that's all.

 music_man


----------



## ssingh0

Quote:


 I did a bit of research, but I'm too lazy right now to do extensive searching. Could someone give me a simple answer of whether or not a T-amp would be suitable for these speakers? Thanks. 
 

I'm using them with a t-amp with 8 AA batteries. It clearly does not have enough power, speakers start distorting past 1'oclock on the t-amp knob. 

 I don't know how others can use them with a regular t


----------



## Ingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssingh0* 
_I'm using them with a t-amp with 8 AA batteries. It clearly does not have enough power, speakers start distorting past 1'oclock on the t-amp knob. 

 I don't know how others can use them with a regular t_

 

What is your source? An iPod? Maybe try using a headphone amp as a preamp if you have one. *edit* IIRC, the T-Amp is a completely different beast with an AC adapter.


----------



## Cyrilix

Just got these speakers today. Man...they sound way better than any of my multimedia speakers -- like way, way better. They're giving me a similar experience to what I hear with my headphones, however, two things: they have quite a lot of midbass, and I keep on wondering where the low bass extension that I've heard on my headphones is. It looks like a subwoofer may be the next thing on my mind.


----------



## Electro Point

^ I got them as well today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are not that big in person. (probably because I'm used to big floorstanding tower speakers)

 I'm powering them with 100w per channel and they are hooked up with Acoustic Research 16ga wire.

 I must say that the sound quality was impressive for the price. They have a bit of a dark tone to them with good highs at the same time.
 The mids are held back a bit, Lots of mid-bass too with good impact.
 Overall the speakers have a "fast" response. 

 The bulid quality is stiff and sturdy. The binding post on the back are of good quality as too. You could use banana plugs to connect the wires if you need but not required.

 Overall I'm impressed by them. Fun speakers to just well have fun listen to music with!


----------



## music_man

the laquer on them is orange peel. but i cannot be too picky for $30 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 the fact that they even look as good as they do and sound pretty decent is really impressive for the price if you think about it for a moment. $30 is less thank a tank of gas these days.

 did anyone else notice that you do not have to look too hard to find worse speakers at cc or bb type stores for $300?

 there were once jbl's that were a great bargain for $150, and are better than these. then jbl caught on and they are like $350 now for the same design.
 they however do not look as good as these. heck, these look better than wilson puppys which are kind of ugly(but do sound better lol).

 anyhow, i am glad everyone is buying them. at the very least they are fun.
 there are certainly worse ways to spend 30 bucks.

 music_man


----------



## Eisenhower

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_the laquer on them is orange peel. but i cannot be too picky for $30 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the fact that they even look as good as they do and sound pretty decent is really impressive for the price if you think about it for a moment. $30 is less thank a tank of gas these days.

 did anyone else notice that you do not have to look too hard to find worse speakers at cc or bb type stores for $300?

 there were once jbl's that were a great bargain for $150, and are better than these. then jbl caught on and they are like $350 now for the same design.
 they however do not look as good as these. heck, these look better than wilson puppys which are kind of ugly(but do sound better lol).

 anyhow, i am glad everyone is buying them. at the very least they are fun.
 there are certainly worse ways to spend 30 bucks.

 music_man_

 

30 bucks?
 I just put down $75 for them (the shipping was alot).


----------



## Cyrilix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eisenhower* 
_30 bucks?
 I just put down $75 for them (the shipping was alot)._

 

I did pickup so it was $45 bucks.


----------



## music_man

they have gone on sale at all different prices. $30,$35,$39.
 right place,right time.

 i probably would not have paid $75 for them though.

 they will match their own sale price within 30 days of purchase. so hope they go on sale soon.

 music_man


----------



## Cyrilix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_they have gone on sale at all different prices. $30,$35,$39.
 right place,right time.

 i probably would not have paid $75 for them though.

 they will match their own sale price within 30 days of purchase. so hope they go on sale soon.

 music_man_

 

Well, if you're going to get into the car and drive to BB, you're wasting money in gas already, so don't bother.


----------



## MrSlacker

I paid $50 for them yestarday in NYC BB. They look and sound WAY better than I thought.


----------



## music_man

how do they sound compared to the athena's?

 music_man


----------



## MrSlacker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_how do they sound compared to the athena's?

 music_man_

 

I bought them for my cousin and I brought it straight there so I cannot do a fair comparison. However, I think they sound very good


----------



## happyangryhappy

They are back on sale for $40.


----------



## flamerz

Hurray!


----------



## Electro Point

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *happyangryhappy* 
_They are back on sale for $40._

 

Ah bullcrap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Goes on sale like after I brought them, Too late now.


----------



## flamerz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Electro Point* 
_Ah bullcrap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Goes on sale like after I brought them, Too late now._

 

When did you buy them? Best Buy might be nice and give you the difference of the prices back. I know Amazon does this within 10 days of a sale, or is it two weeks? I don't remember, but you get the point. I wouldn't be surprised if Best Buy had this offer also.


----------



## music_man

best buy gives 30 day price protection.
 if you find a lower price within 30 days(including from bestbuy themselves) you get the difference back!

 just ask.

 music_man


----------



## Electro Point

Oh alright, I'll stop back to Best buy sometime soon and see what they say.

 flamerz: I brought them on saturday.


----------



## music_man

the problem is, at the current price of gas it is not worth it! unless you just feel a need to stick it to bb(as did i).

 music_man


----------



## Electro Point

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_the problem is, at the current price of gas it is not worth it! unless you just feel a need to stick it to bb(as did i).

 music_man_

 

Nah I'm not going to go back to match the price. Not worth it and hassling. $10 isn't really that much to get back.


----------



## MrSlacker

Exactly my thoughts. Gas and my time is worth much more than $10 i'll get from price matching.


----------



## Cyrilix

My previous setup with these speakers was Zhaolu D2 DAC -> Zhaolu D2 integrated preamp -> Onkyo TX-37 receiver -> speakers. I just took the preamp out of the chain, and man, do these speakers sound a lot better. I was missing out the entire time! From my last impressions post on these speakers, I posted that they were a bit different and had a big midbass hump that bothered me a little. I don't notice it anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I had to take the headphone off the DAC only output to put my speakers on it, but I don't think I want to remove my speakers from that output anymore (they used to be on the DAC+amp output of the Zhaolu). All I need now is some sort of splitter that can split that dual RCA output into two dual RCA outputs. Any way I can do this without too much sound quality sacrifice?

 New Impressions: The sound is nice and fast, and even clearer than before, with a good balance across the frequency range!


----------



## music_man

i was wondering two things.

 when were these speakers $23? that was the original post. i mean at $30 they are amazing.

 i was thinking of putting a super tweeter from rs on top of them. i wonder if that would make them like $2500 tannoys. wishfull thinking, but who knows.

 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

OP says $23 each, $46/pr.


----------



## music_man

oh, that explains that. i did $30 a pair. yup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music_man


----------



## aaroncort

I just bought an insignia 6.1 stereo reciever to go with the bookshelf speakers and I have to say that it sounds much better than I had hoped for the money. The reciever is only 127.49 plus tax on the BB website and they'll price match it at the store. The speakers are only 39.99 making it 167.48 for the whole kit'n kabootle. It sounds so good it, for moments, makes me forget about all the near slave labour that went into making them.


----------



## aaroncort

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_i was wondering two things.

 when were these speakers $23? that was the original post. i mean at $30 they are amazing.

 i was thinking of putting a super tweeter from rs on top of them. i wonder if that would make them like $2500 tannoys. wishfull thinking, but who knows.

 music_man_

 

I don't know if you noticed or not but the center part of the driver is the tweeter. the outer part isn't connected to the center part. It's quite an amazing setup. A second tweeter i think would be a bad idea.


----------



## music_man

yes, aaron. i happened to notice that. lol. they are called "concentric drivers".
 ie, the tweeter is in in place of the dustcap on the midbass driver. older tannoys were just that. they have now added a super tweeter to the design. perched on top of their oval housing. 

 also of intrest is that the rigidity of the insignias cabinet is not so far from the tannoys. and to think people slapped these of cement(uh, water putty).

 the driver here has limitations. it is a stamped basket and simply not the quality of the tannoys(of course). i put some polys and larger air coils in the xover and thats it. it is on a active xover to a sunfire jr. sub and sounds good enough. reference,no. worth $30+$40 in parts, yeah. i think i will swap the sunfire for a yamaha though, no reason to have a $900 sub on these.

 music_man


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Well anybody that missed these @ $39 they are back on sale again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just drove down to Daytona and picked a pair up $42 with tax, I don't have the best of separates to test these with, I have an old Pro Logic Sony STRD-865 running in 2 channel mode (100 watts X 2), Pioneer 7 Band Eq (on Flat right now) Onkyo DVD player. For speaker wire, I have some old craptastic "original" Monster Cable I believe it is 12 gauge.

 Out of the box I have to say I am pretty impressed for $42, I have spent more money on bad dates in the past, and these sure are allot more fun then a bad date 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The room I am staying in right now measures a whopping 10' x 9' so for this shoe box of a room these speakers are almost over kill.

 ::Edit::
 Just found my old Klipsch KV1 center channel, now if I could just find some more speaker wire :S I could try these in 3 channel mode for movies.


----------



## Scotty757

I just got mine yesterday.

 A/B'ed them last night with the Onix Ref1's. Both powered by the Onix SP3 tube amp.

 While, quite honestly, the Ref1's walked circles around these little guys, for less that 1/30 the price...they sound pretty freaking good. I think the ref1's will go back so I can spend that $ on some new headphones (K1000?)


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scotty757* 
_I just got mine yesterday.

 A/B'ed them last night with the Onix Ref1's. Both powered by the Onix SP3 tube amp.

 While, quite honestly, the Ref1's walked circles around these little guys, for less that 1/30 the price...they sound pretty freaking good. I think the ref1's will go back so I can spend that $ on some new headphones (K1000?)_

 

Yea I got about 18 or so hours on them since yesterday, and I think they sound great, and defintley better with some burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just ordered some speaker wire from Bluejeans last night so I can add my old Klipsch center channel to this setup, well far from reference I think it will be a fine sound system on the cheap.

 Now all I need is some speaker stands, anyone think these would be decent? I am sure they would have to be better then the 2 cardboard boxes I am using for stands right now


----------



## happyangryhappy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *c0mfortably_numb* 
_Yea I got about 18 or so hours on them since yesterday, and I think they sound great, and defintley better with some burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just ordered some speaker wire from Bluejeans last night so I can add my old Klipsch center channel to this setup, well far from reference I think it will be a fine sound system on the cheap.

 Now all I need is some speaker stands, anyone think these would be decent? I am sure they would have to be better then the 2 cardboard boxes I am using for stands right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a pair of these which are there bigger brothers and I find them to be awesome stands. They are twice the weight 54lbs vs 24lbs and when filled with sand are incredibly solid and isolate extremely well. Also the the ones I have (High mass ones) ship for free, whereas the medium mass ones you mentioned require additional shipping which brings the price within $10. In my opinion, for $97 shipped these are a really good stand and a great bargain - even if they are a bit overkill for the insignias.


----------



## phergus_25

Im not sure if this has been brought up, but a way that I always increse the rigidity of my car audio enclosures is to use some fiber glass resin all in the inside, it smells, but once it drys and soaks into the MDF there is some serious strength.
 -greg


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *happyangryhappy* 
_ for $97 shipped these are a really good stand and a great bargain - even if they are a bit overkill for the insignias._

 

Thanks angry, I was looking at those as well. They maybe overkill for the Insignia's but I am sure within a year or 2 upgraditiis will strike and I will want to try a different speaker, might as well get a stand that I won't have to replace 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was reading you can fill them with sand, how many bags would it take? Also are they sealed good, so sand can't leak out?


----------



## happyangryhappy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *c0mfortably_numb* 
_I was reading you can fill them with sand, how many bags would it take? Also are they sealed good, so sand can't leak out?_

 

I used most of two smaller bags I got at homedepot (2 @ 20lbs I think?) for a couple dollars. 

 Also, they seal pretty tight, so for me they have never leaked any sand or the sand dust particles, however if you were worried about it you could probably make a simple gasket out of a old bike tube or something. 

 They also have adjustable 1-1/2" spiked feet on the base to isolate the stand and smaller adjustable spiked feet on the stand to isolate the speakers which work quite well. 

 I think they're a great stand and my only complaint was I didn't like the brass caps which I painted to match the stands.


----------



## music_man

i took out some magazines from the 80's earlier today. i noticed that some $3,000 infinitys and a brand i think was called "arc" both used rounded,slotted sides to make the enclosures into ovals. the infinitys were hard wood and slotted on the outside however. they looked nice but kinda 1980's by now. as small as these are i am not going to great extents to stiffen them.

 music_man


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

The wire I ordered from bluejeans cable came today, so I was able to hook up my center channel. These Insignia speakers seem to have excellent synergy with my Klipsch KV1 center. I'm only able to run 3 channel as I don't have any rear speakers, I tried a few concert DVD's I have and a movie or 2 and I was quit impressed to say the least. 

 Has anyone else tried the Belden 5000UE wire (12 gauge)? I have had this center channel probably 9 years now, and I have never herd it sound so good. I am tempted to replace the existing Monster cable that is going to the Insignia's with Belden 5000UE, especially considering it's only .38 cents a foot


----------



## music_man

original monster cable is more than fine for the insignias.
 in fact, original monster cable(both speaker and signal) was far superior to what they make today. that's my opinion,ymmv.

 music_man


----------



## Eisenhower

I hooked up my insignias recently. I think they sound pretty good, but they definently need some sort of vibration damping inside, since some vocals seem to resonate the cabinet a bit. Im not that impressed with the soundstage, maybe I just need to image them better, right now they are pretty close together. 
 My senn hd600's easily blow them out of the water, its no comparison. But for $40 the insignia's get the job done well. They are clearly in a different class than your typical multimedia setup for this price.

 Could anyone give me some tips on speaker placement? Im in a very small concrete dorm room.


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Eisenhower* 
_Could anyone give me some tips on speaker placement? Im in a very small concrete dorm room._

 

Right now the enormous room I am in is about 10'X9' My speakers are placed on the far wall and spaced 5' apart from one another, with my TV in the middle and my center channel sitting on top of the TV. The Insignia's are sitting about 29" from the floor, using card board boxes as stands (I'm poor what can I say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) My listening spot is about 6' from the speakers.


----------



## music_man

ok, you guys will not believe what i tried today.

 i put each insignia ontop of yamaha 8" subwoofers. seperated by foam rubber.
 i used a very simple xover. large electrolytic caps bypassed with poly's inline with the cables.

 these are like infant watt/puppys lol. i could sell these to someone unsuspecting for maybe $1000. seriously.

 either i had too much beer or i am a class 'a' nerd haha.

 music_man


----------



## SysteX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_either i had too much beer or i am a class 'a' nerd haha.
 music_man_

 


 My vote's on the beer...


----------



## velogreg

Can you tell me the brand of beer, poly's and caps? I can't afford the Watt Puppies but I bet I can afford the beer. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_ok, you guys will not believe what i tried today.

 i put each insignia ontop of yamaha 8" subwoofers. seperated by foam rubber.
 i used a very simple xover. large electrolytic caps bypassed with poly's inline with the cables.

 these are like infant watt/puppys lol. i could sell these to someone unsuspecting for maybe $1000. seriously.

 either i had too much beer or i am a class 'a' nerd haha.

 music_man_


----------



## music_man

sure,

 mgd.
 electrolytic,capxon
 poly,illinois capacitor





 music_man


----------



## Azure

Yikes, $39.98 for the pair. I think it's time to strike...


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Yikes, $39.98 for the pair. I think it's time to strike..._

 

Better hurry tomorrow is the last day of the sale


----------



## Azure

Blah, I can't checkout or look at local pick-up options or anything; I always get directed to a page that says:

  Quote:


 Please Wait...
 Sorry, your session has expired due to 30 minutes of inactivity.
 An updated page will display in 5 seconds. If it does not display, please click here.


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Blah, I can't checkout or look at local pick-up options or anything; I always get directed to a page that says:






_

 

Are you following a hyperlink, or going from the front page? Best Buy's website leaves allot to be desired. Just clear your cache, and in the search box search for NS-B2111


----------



## SteveMcqueen

Allow this to be my introduction of sorts.

 I picked up the Insignias today after work, they had two pairs (Tukwilla location for any in the Seattle area), for 40 bucks. You guys were right, Ive never heard a pair of speakers sound so good. Not that I have alot of experience on the subject but I know what sounds good to me, and these sound darn good. Nothing is overdone, no super highs and no super lows, and the midrange is great. I might pick up the other set when they go on sale agian. Thanks for the heads up.

 And it being my first post, here is my new setup (sorry for the lighting):






 Harmon/Kardon HK3250, Senn HD590's, Ipod 30g, Ipod Mini, Sony MD. And them my babies, the Gibson Sonex 180 Costom, and the Marshall Valvestate ATV20.

 So, hello, and thanks for the advise.


----------



## Azure

What's a nice, affordable (<$100) sub that I could pair these with? What are you guys using? Also, what information do I need to know about these to figure out which stereo amps I can use?


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_ Also, what information do I need to know about these to figure out which stereo amps I can use?_

 

Firstly pick up some speaker wire as none is included (doesn't matter most the speaker wire that others include in there box is junk) Also these speakers love power, the maximum suggested power rating is 120 watts. I've seen some people say they are buying the T Amp, but I don't see how that has enough power (imo) I have mine connected to an old Sony receiver pushes 100 wattsX2 in 2 channel mode.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_What's a nice, affordable (<$100) sub that I could pair these with? What are you guys using?_

 

Although over budget at $199 I have seen these subwoofers being recommended on another hi-fi forum.


----------



## Azure

So, look into amps that have the capability to push out 100 watts? I thought that these values were pretty insignificant as the majority of the time the amount of power sent to your speakers will be *NOWHERE* near the maximum input (Leading to the common mistake that amps with higher watt output will drive speakers better)?


----------



## happyangryhappy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_So, look into amps that have the capability to push out 100 watts? I thought that these values were pretty insignificant as the majority of the time the amount of power sent to your speakers will be *NOWHERE* near the maximum input (Leading to the common mistake that amps with higher watt output will drive speakers better)?_

 

I think it depends on the amp. I bought a pair of these speakers to use in my office and paired them with an older NAD 7140 (40watts circa 1985) and for the price they sound fantastic - clean, detailed and plenty of power. I think, unless you need a surround amp, I would look for something like a older Nad reciever or integrated from Ebay. Many go for $50-100 on Ebay all the time which is a great deal considering most went for $400-500 15 years ago and still sound great by todays standards. Look for something like a 71xx, 72xx pe, 31xx or 32xx pe all of which go between $50 and $200 (usually $50-100) depending on who's buying and when it is.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_So, look into amps that have the capability to push out 100 watts? I thought that these values were pretty insignificant as the majority of the time the amount of power sent to your speakers will be *NOWHERE* near the maximum input (Leading to the common mistake that amps with higher watt output will drive speakers better)?_

 

Unless you're listening as loud as you do to your headphones, you won't _need_ anywhere near that kind of power. I've done a few background music speaker systems with low power amps rated to a maximum of 10 watts per channel for each room, and into ceiling speakers with nearly identical specs as those speakers they went to some pretty rocking volumes without even straining the amp. According to the specs, they're 8 ohm and 90 dB/W/m, so they're nothing demanding at all as far as amplification goes.


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Well that is true, efficiency has allot to do with just how powerful an amp really is. The above mentioned NAD's should be fine for these speakers, and I am sure they could run laps around the amp in my Sony.

 My main concern is amps like the T and Super T, there ratings seem quit a bit low and according to the specs, quit a bit of distortion in higher power. IMO lower powered amps introduce clipping which can be damaging to a speaker.

*Product Specifications *
 Class-T architecture 
 Single Supply Operation 
 Audiophile Quality Sound 
 0.04% THD+N @ 9W,4 Ohm
 0.18% IHF-IM @ 1W,4 Ohm
 11W @ 4 Ohm,0.1% THD+N
 6W @ 8 Ohm,0.1% THD+N 
 High Power 
 15W @4 Ohm,10% THD+N
 10W @ 8 Ohm,10% THD+N

 High Efficiency 
 81% @ 5W,4 Ohm 88% @ 10W,8 
 Dynamic Range = 102 dB 
 Super T-Amp comes with AC wall power adapter
 Input: 100V - 240V AC 50/60Hz
 Output: 12V DC 3.0A


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *c0mfortably_numb* 
_Well that is true, efficiency has allot to do with just how powerful an amp really is. The above mentioned NAD's should be fine for these speakers, and I am sure they could run laps around the amp in my Sony.

 My main concern is amps like the T and Super T, there ratings seem quit a bit low and according to the specs, quit a bit of distortion in higher power. IMO lower powered amps introduce clipping which can be damaging to a speaker.

*Product Specifications *
 Class-T architecture 
 Single Supply Operation 
 Audiophile Quality Sound 
 0.04% THD+N @ 9W,4 Ohm
 0.18% IHF-IM @ 1W,4 Ohm
 11W @ 4 Ohm,0.1% THD+N
 6W @ 8 Ohm,0.1% THD+N 
 High Power 
 15W @4 Ohm,10% THD+N
 10W @ 8 Ohm,10% THD+N

 High Efficiency 
 81% @ 5W,4 Ohm 88% @ 10W,8 
 Dynamic Range = 102 dB 
 Super T-Amp comes with AC wall power adapter
 Input: 100V - 240V AC 50/60Hz
 Output: 12V DC 3.0A_

 

Well you wouldn't really use a T amp if you're trying to blast out the windows or fill a huge 2 story grandroom with sound, but I still think most people overestimate how much power they actually need. I just measured my speakers with my normal listening level, enough to completely fill a 12x15 room with plenty of sound, and I'm barely putting 1 watt into them at the loudest passages. I'll try to measure them later with a movie, which I usually listen to at louder levels and have a lot more high-volume peaks.

 Edit: I should also add, if you _do_ listen at Ludicrous Volume, then something like a T amp probably wouldn't be the best option just for safety, let alone sound quality.


----------



## music_man

the tall skinny yamaha 8" sub is perfect for these if they still make it. or get a used one. those were the only $100 subs i ever heard that played more than one note,really. a 2 channel nad at around 40 watts is perfect for these.
 if i went sony i might look for at least 100 watts. remember companies have ways of bs'ing the wattage. so the 40 watt nad would be like a 100 watt sony(non es of course). also, 14 guage radioshack wire is fine for these. actually pioneer makes an elite amp that is a stellar value but would make this kind of pricey then. if i got that amp i'd want those little epos at the least of course.

 now keep in mind, this does sound good but it is not reference system. with receiver,speakers,sub and wire we are at less than $300. i seriously doubt you could do better for $500. on the other hand, i think any person with properly working ears could hear the difference between this and a $25,000 system. of course the people that buy this would hear that and then proclaim 25,what? your kidding, right?
 that is just to put things into perspective. maybe it is the best some of you ever heard. then, as head-fiers you need to get out more lol.

 i am by no means bashing it. it represents a sturdy sonic value. it is however, by no means anywhere near the "best".

 btw, that pioneer amp and epos i mentioned would be the next logical step up from this imho. then you are at about $700. it is a big step though i think.
 well, once you have the bug....

 music_man


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

O no way would anyone mistake this for a $25K system 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but when I bought these I knew that. I was hoping for at least something that sounded like it cost $100-$200 and something that would beat a micro unit. I think one would be hard pressed to find a better speaker for under $150

 Have I herd better, sure, can I afford better? Nope


----------



## Hanzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_the tall skinny yamaha 8" sub is perfect for these if they still make it. or get a used one. those were the only $100 subs i ever heard that played more than one note,really. a 2 channel nad at around 40 watts is perfect for these._

 

What is the model no? Is it the dual driver one?


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* 
_Blah, I can't checkout or look at local pick-up options or anything; I always get directed to a page that says:






_

 

Hobby's are priceless!


----------



## rjc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Well you wouldn't really use a T amp if you're trying to blast out the windows or fill a huge 2 story grandroom with sound, but I still think most people overestimate how much power they actually need._

 

Thanks in part to this thread, I picked up a T-amp (with 13.5V AC adaptor) and these speakers. They sound great & are plenty loud enough for me. I'm listening in a 14 x 14 living room, and I'm not shaking the walls; for me this a good combination. I couldn't be happier.


----------



## music_man

you know, i do not take the kef's that are this size with the uni-q to be so much better. with these around the kefs should sell for $250.
 with the understanding that these could pass for $100.

 i know that statement may not be too popular. so while we are comparing concentric drivers, rest assured that the tannoys will slaughter these. lol.

 the problem is that kef has slowly flushed itself down the proverbial toilet since the early 90's, ala b&o.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

i was wondering if anyone knows of speakers that are about half this size that are a comparable value?
 well actually even better speakers in a smaller package is what i am looking for.

 say $100 a pair(or less) for something with a 3" to 5-1/4" driver?

 everything i am seeing that is any good is at least twice that money.
 the little insignias are not the same value. they stink.

 music_man


----------



## music_man

guys i found another awesome value at bb! to think i actually used to hate this store lol. i am now another victem of the capitalist pig haha.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138083489658

 they could do like circuit city and sell them for $80 each, but no! $80 for the stinking pair. laughing all the way back to the bank to give bb more of my money....

 they are better than the insignias in many respects and also fall short in some. nonetheless they could easily sell for $80 each so that is another solid value. they are better than $160 polks but not better than $180 bostons.

 still, why are we talking about this stuff? i want another pair of watt/puppy's but this time for $500 lol.

 actually this is not a good thing. it is going to cause the last handfull of true audiophile companies to finally dissapear. i say boycott this cheap stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music_man


----------



## phergus_25

yesterday a new BB opened near me so I decided that I might just have to get a new set of speakers. These are deff a nice set of speakers for the $. I plan to strengthen the cabnits with some fiberglass resin, and maby alittle more polyfill inside, but I am verry impressed for ~50.
 -greg


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* 
_yesterday a new BB opened near me so I decided that I might just have to get a new set of speakers. These are deff a nice set of speakers for the $. I plan to strengthen the cabnits with some fiberglass resin, and maby alittle more polyfill inside, but I am verry impressed for ~50.
 -greg_

 

By Fiberglass resin, are you talking about Bondo? Sounds like a good idea for stiffening the box up. The only real complaint I have after many hours of listening, the box has allot of resonance to it. I'm still happy considering the cost< performance barrier, maybe eventually Ill add some polly fill.


----------



## music_man

the yamahas do sound better than the insignias. only drawbacks are they only have a 3/4" tweeter(but still brighter than the insignia's),no ports,6 ohms,$80.

 most of yamahas other speakers are $200 or more. these are made only for bb. they also have some good jbl's but those are too expensive for what they are.

 all in all bb seems to be offering many items at near give away prices. i still do not like the store it is way to high key for me.

 music_man


----------



## nabwong

I just got this for a bedroom rig and i have to say that they are a great buy. They can't compare to my Dali but for a small room, it's perfect.


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *c0mfortably_numb* 
_By Fiberglass resin, are you talking about Bondo? Sounds like a good idea for stiffening the box up. The only real complaint I have after many hours of listening, the box has allot of resonance to it. I'm still happy considering the cost< performance barrier, maybe eventually Ill add some polly fill._

 

Yea, but not body filler, this will be fiberglass resin just brushed pretty heavily inside. I do this to all my car audio boxes to stiffen them up.
 -greg


----------



## phergus_25

Athrough Im sure this has been stated before here are some of my impressions.

 There is deff a lack of detail between my 501s and the insignias, they Is just dont get some of the minute detailes, IE: fingers sliding down strings in acoustig stuff.

 There is also a weird mid range warble, if you get what Im saying, that the Is show, some kind of reverb I supose. The mids are also alittle recessed, not near as mid focused as the 501s.

 The mids arnt really a fualt by being recessed, just alittle diffrent. 

 Over all I am very happy with these speakers and thanks for the thread highligting them.

 -greg


----------



## plus_c

I heard these the other day at my local high-end audio shop (Blue Oasis Audio in Richmond, VA). I was shocked, on more than one level. First, that the guy even had these speakers in his store - he was selling them bundled with a Sherwood audio receiver to replace the crap speakers that Sherwood packs in. It was really surprising, because usually proprietors of high-end stores laugh you out of the place when you even mention Best Buy and products that can be bought there. So the fact that he stocks these, to me, is pretty high praise.

 He turned them on, and I was shocked by how good they sound for $50. If I had the money to get a receiver to go with them, I would be allllll over these speakers.


----------



## music_man

intresting observation:

 these insignias have similar binding posts to those found on the most expensive speakers. the ones with the little caps over the banana jacks are on most under $1,500 speakers now. it seems nowdays binding posts on production speakers are sourced from only two places. intresting that the insignias got the much better ones.

 other observation:

 sometimes a whole is more than the sum of it's part's.
 case in point, klipsch reference of this size. spec much better part's and do not sound any where near worth being $400 more than these.

 on the other hand, i did decide that the kef's are better than these.
 again, probably not $400 better however.

 the insignias remain a bargain.
 long live the insignias!

 music_man


----------



## 1967cutlass

What would be a great budget subwoofer to pair these with? Would they be good in a 2.1 setup? I'll either use a T-amp (I'll get a power supply and maybe mod it) with them or my pioneer vsx-454 which makes a lot of power at 2-8 ohms. My source is a 24 bit soundcard for now.

 Give me setup ideas, I'd be willing to spend another 150-200 on top of the speaker and T-amp price although I'd definately like to spend as little as possible. I'm just thinking they would be better with a sub so I could cross them over at 60hz or whenever they roll off and have a more full sound since I probably won't be able to position these for ideal bass response.


----------



## 1967cutlass

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=82.1

 I was also kinda sorta thinking about those, but I am betting the insignias+sub would be better than those by themselves.


----------



## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_intresting observation:

 these insignias have similar binding posts to those found on the most expensive speakers. the ones with the little caps over the banana jacks are on most under $1,500 speakers now. it seems nowdays binding posts on production speakers are sourced from only two places. intresting that the insignias got the much better ones.

 other observation:

 sometimes a whole is more than the sum of it's part's.
 case in point, klipsch reference of this size. spec much better part's and do not sound any where near worth being $400 more than these.

 on the other hand, i did decide that the kef's are better than these.
 again, probably not $400 better however.

 the insignias remain a bargain.
 long live the insignias!

 music_man_

 

This is just imo of course, but I think that Klipsch Reference series is worlds better than the Insignias. I went in to BB the other week to ask if they were taking pre-orders for the PS3 (they aren't) and finally got to hear the Insignias while I was there. 

 Honestly, I wasn't that impressed. For $50 sure, they are a super bargain but I didn't even feel that they could keep up with my modest RB-25s much less my RF-82s or the RF-7s I demo'd. In a way, I feel kind of the same as I did when you said the DVP-462 was better than a Krell or a Levinson or a Theta. Sure it's a wonderful product for the money and can beat many other consumer products in the $100-200 price range, but they aren't exactly "giant killers" in terms of build or sound quality.


----------



## uofmtiger

I was impressed because of the price for the performance. They do not beat speakers that cost 10 times more, unless we are comparing them to acoustimass or something, but they sound great for the price. 

 I have had mine paired with both a T-amp and a Super T in my bedroom and there is plenty of power. 

 I will definitley get another pair when they drop below $40 again. I have an extra T-amp that I am going to use with my office computer system because the Insignia/T-amp combo blow away my Logitech z-680s for music.


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uofmtiger* 
_I was impressed because of the price for the performance. They do not beat speakers that cost 10 times more, unless we are comparing them to acoustimass or something, but they sound great for the price. 

 I have had mine paired with both a T-amp and a Super T in my bedroom and there is plenty of power. 

 I will definitley get another pair when they drop below $40 again. I have an extra T-amp that I am going to use with my office computer system because the Insignia/T-amp combo blow away my Logitech z-680s for music._

 

Ever thought of adding a sub?


----------



## music_man

i do think the klipsch rb's are much better. however, i think they are way overpriced. as is always the case with consumer audio.

 i guess you must put things in perspective. i don't find the klipsch worthy of the badge "reference". i guess that is my issue. the insignias are quite a bit less of a reference, granted.

 if i ran this industry i would sell the 6 1/2" klipsch for not more than $300 a pair. being a big enough company to do that, (to all of our liking) that could spell the end for bose.

 the klipsch are ok. see my mini system thread in portable if you want. the little denon could not power the 4" klipsch. they are pretty inefficient.
 to be fair it could not power any decent speakers. those being so small though i did not understand that. 

 also, the klipsch do have those terrible 5-way binding posts. they might as well be clips. the insignia has them beat there if that matters any.

 music_man


----------



## uofmtiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_Ever thought of adding a sub?_

 

Not really. I mainly wanted them for my bedroom system which does not get a huge work out anyway (I listen to the T-amp with my Realistic HP-100 headphones most of the time in the bedroom). 

 However, I think that they would benefit from a sub if you are so inclined. They are rated at 50Hz _(I have read that it may be closer to 60Hz)_ on the BB website, so the bass is pretty good for bookshelf speakers as it is. I have NHT SB2 speakers (also around 50Hz) in my main system and I have them combined with an Outlaw sub, so I know that these type of speakers benefit from the extra punch that a sub can add. I just never researched it for my bedroom. 

 Do you have a suggestion for a sub in the less than 100 price range that would work well with the Insignias and Super T? I am always willing to listen...


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uofmtiger* 
_
 Do you have a suggestion for a sub in the less than 100 price range that would work well with the Insignias and Super T? I am always willing to listen..._

 

That's the same question I'm trying to answer, I want to do the insignia/t for a computer setup. I'm thinking 2.1 would be sweet, but I want more input.


----------



## Chiliman

Are these bad boys shielded?


----------



## SysteX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chiliman* 
_Are these bad boys shielded?_

 

Nope.

 Wait... there are actually people that still use CRTs???


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SysteX* 
_Nope.

 Wait... there are actually people that still use CRTs??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Quite a few. I'm going to keep using this ~250lb beast until the picture stops looking so damn good.


----------



## 1967cutlass

Honestly guys I need an answer...

 1. Get the insignias and a sub

 2. Get these and no sub

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=82.1

 I listen to all kinds of music and these are going to be used for computer speakers. I already have a good amp but I wanted to try the T-anyway.


----------



## uofmtiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_Honestly guys I need an answer...

 1. Get the insignias and a sub

 2. Get these and no sub

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=82.1

 I listen to all kinds of music and these are going to be used for computer speakers. I already have a good amp but I wanted to try the T-anyway._

 

The av123 site had those listed at 55hz compared to the listed 50hz of the Insignias... Why do you think you would not need a sub with the av123s?


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uofmtiger* 
_The av123 site had those listed at 55hz compared to the listed 50hz of the Insignias... Why do you think you would not need a sub with the av123s?_

 

Because then I couldn't afford one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I think combo #1 would be better but I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.


----------



## uofmtiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_Because then I couldn't afford one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I think combo #1 would be better but I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking._

 






 Well, my point was that if the claims of 55Khz is true, you would want a sub for the avr123 setup if you wanted deep bass...

 I should mention that I am not aware of an easy way to get sound to a sub in the T-amp system you mentioned. The $30 T-amp has a miniplug input and two speaker terminals. You would most likely need a pre-amp for the T-amp to do what you want. I guess your sound card may have the ability to only pass a sub signal, but you would want to check into that. 

 I have a Super T in my living room that I use for some of my music, but I use my Denon AVR3300 as a preamp. I can get the sub in the mix with this setup without a problem. However, you would want to make sure you have the right setup before going out and buying the T-amp... it may not be worth the trouble if you want a sub (not sure, so others may want to jump in if they know differently).


----------



## happyangryhappy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_Honestly guys I need an answer...

 1. Get the insignias and a sub

 2. Get these and no sub

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=82.1

 I listen to all kinds of music and these are going to be used for computer speakers. I already have a good amp but I wanted to try the T-anyway._

 

Is this your only speaker rig, or is it a second computer system for casual listening?

 I ask because if this is merely a computer system to game on and casually listen to music with, then combo #1 may be better. However, if this is a system you are going to use alot and/or is your only speaker system then I would say get the x-ls. Here  is a link to do a $95 upgrade to the insignias and in their words "they are still not quite to the performance level of our A/V-1 kit or the giant killer king X-LS speaker from AV123". Unless you are never going to upgrade or spend more money on speakers again, I would start with the better speakers and add a sub later. Why compromise now when you could have a much more solid base to build upon? 

Zaph Audio says it well- "For $50 per pair you can't get anything better. On the other hand, only spending $50 on your speakers is setting your sights pretty low."

 Again it depends on what you are using these for. I have a pair in my garage, and for that they are great; however, I would not want these as my only speakers if I had other options to choose from. 

 Just my 2 cents.


----------



## uofmtiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *happyangryhappy* 
_Is this your only speaker rig, or is it a second computer system for casual listening?

Zaph Audio says it well- "For $50 per pair you can't get anything better. On the other hand, only spending $50 on your speakers is setting your sights pretty low."_

 

I agree that you can get better speakers if you spend 4 or 5 times the price. No doubt about that at all. So it really comes down to what you want to spend and what you expect from the speakers you end up buying. The cost/benefit seems to be the most important aspect to any system. I can get a T-amp for $30, but I could probably better it for a thousand. 

 Personally, I would not have a T-amp as my only amplification source in a primary system, either.


----------



## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_i do think the klipsch rb's are much better. however, i think they are way overpriced. as is always the case with consumer audio.

 i guess you must put things in perspective. i don't find the klipsch worthy of the badge "reference". i guess that is my issue. the insignias are quite a bit less of a reference, granted.

 if i ran this industry i would sell the 6 1/2" klipsch for not more than $300 a pair. being a big enough company to do that, (to all of our liking) that could spell the end for bose.

 the klipsch are ok. see my mini system thread in portable if you want. the little denon could not power the 4" klipsch. they are pretty inefficient.
 to be fair it could not power any decent speakers. those being so small though i did not understand that. 

 also, the klipsch do have those terrible 5-way binding posts. they might as well be clips. the insignia has them beat there if that matters any.

 music_man_

 

Whether you feel that the Klipsch Reference line is worthy of that moniker, is of course the opinion that you're entitled to. I however, feel different.

 I got my RB-25s for only $320...they pounded the crap out of those Insignias, and the Insignias had better speaker placement than my RBs too...

 They are not inefficient at all, if you power them with crap (As you stated yourself, that Denon mini receiver is rubbish), then the end result will of course be crap. I'm using a Denon PMA-2000IVR (For more info click the link in my sig) with only 80WPC into 8 ohms and they power the bloody hell out of my RBs. The volume knob is zero'd at 6 o'clock and with it only turned to around 7:30, I get my normal listening level. At 9 the neighbors'll start to get pissed. It's the same with my RF-82s. They're being run off an NAD C352 with only 65wpc and I still get that same result, I can't turn it pass a quarter turn without having my eardrums ruptured.

 And yes the RB-25s come with the red capped binding posts, but you can have any dealer remove them for you so that regular banana plugs can be used. My RF-82s came with WBT binding posts. Honestly though, I don't make my decision on which speaker to buy by what kind of binding posts they're equipped with anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For pricing, I don't feel that they are overpriced. I have comapred my Klispch RBs to the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s, the Totem Rainmakers, and the Von Schweikert VR-1s, and preferred my Rbs to all except the VR-1s, but even with those, I didn't feel that they were significantly better than the RBs. This was done before Ibought the RBs too so it's not like I wanted to like the RBs because I had already bought them. Once again, this was repeated with the RF-82s, I still haven't auditioned a speaker in the same price range that can compete with them. I might buy a pair of Paradigm Reference 60 V3s to replace the RBs but that's only because the RF-7s are impossible to find used and I don't want two pairs of the same speakers (I.e. 2 pairs of the RF-82s).


----------



## Chiliman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SysteX* 
_Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chiliman
 Are these bad boys shielded?

 Nope.

 Wait... there are actually people that still use CRTs???_

 

That kinda sucks, now I am going to have to redo my speaker placement. both my speakers before were like 4 inches from my tv...


----------



## SysteX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chiliman* 
_That kinda sucks, now I am going to have to redo my speaker placement. both my speakers before were like 4 inches from my tv..._

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm of the opinion that if you can't see any distortion on the TV then the speakers aren't doing any harm.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SysteX* 
_Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm of the opinion that if you can't see any distortion on the TV then the speakers aren't doing any harm._

 

That's the difference between shielded and unshielded speakers close to the TV.


----------



## SysteX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_That's the difference between shielded and unshielded speakers close to the TV._

 

I meant that since he already has his unshielded speakers close to the TV, and he doesn't see any distortion (I'm assuming, because he says "*now* I have to move my speakers...", once he found out they were unshielded), he's not damaging the TV.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SysteX* 
_I meant that since he already has his unshielded speakers close to the TV, and he doesn't see any distortion (I'm assuming, because he says "*now* I have to move my speakers...", once he found out they were unshielded), he's not damaging the TV._

 

What he said sounds to me like he was/is using _shielded_ speakers close to the TV, and will have to rearrange to use the new _unshielded_ speakers.


----------



## 1967cutlass

Well I'm getting the bestbuy speakers, I have a better amp than the t-amp so I'll probably skip that and find a subwoofer. The search continues...


----------



## Hanzo

Someone referred to the "thin yamaha" sub, but i never found out which it was. Also looking for the right low end sub to pair with these...

 Still asking for suggestions...


----------



## uofmtiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hanzo* 
_Someone referred to the "thin yamaha" sub, but i never found out which it was. Also looking for the right low end sub to pair with these...

 Still asking for suggestions..._

 

Overstock has a refurb of this one for $89:

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/yamah...x.aspx?TabID=1

 I have no experience with it, but the reviews are decent.


----------



## 1967cutlass

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2....ROD_ID=1907647

 Under details it says 6.5" driver, weird.


----------



## uofmtiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2....ROD_ID=1907647

 Under details it says 6.5" driver, weird._

 

That is strange because I found the sub by doing a search for 8 inch driver...


----------



## music_man

those looking for a sub i think it as called the yamaha yst-105. it is a great match. i doubt it is made anymore.

 i do think as far as audio pricing goes today that the klipsch are priced ok for what you get. the problem is that everything from the 4" model to the biggest one say "reference". reference in my eyes is not bought for this kind of money. i am not being a snob. the manufacturers ran the prices up into the stratosphere not i. to understand where i am coming from, even though the little von Schweikert sound better and have much better build quality then the klipsch, they are not reference either. in my eyes vr-9 is where the reference starts and they make better speakers than that. so you can understand why i would not call the klipsch "reference" even though they are pretty good speakers.

 pretty much anything at $300 will beat the insignias. one issue is size of the speakers. high end loudspeakers tend to be much bigger and have more drivers. that is why i would rather just blow my $50 on insignias personally. then buy $300 to $1,500 bookshelfs i didn't like anyhow. there are so called real reference bookshelfs like the micro utopia be. i still find the sound to be too small and can allways hear the crossover point in a 2.1 with speakers that only have one mid-bass driver. i am picky. you know i like values. i havent found an incredible value in a bookshelf yet. if the micro utopia be was say $800 a pair i'd be all over that. very few values in audio anymore.

 music_man


----------



## happyangryhappy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_ i like values. i havent found an incredible value in a bookshelf yet. if the micro utopia be was say $800 a pair i'd be all over that. very few values in audio anymore.

 music_man_

 

Incredible value in a bookshelf = DIY


----------



## Cyrilix

What do you guys think of pairing something like the Dayton 12" sub from PartsExpress or the Mirage Omni S10 with these bookshelves?


----------



## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_i do think as far as audio pricing goes today that the klipsch are priced ok for what you get. the problem is that everything from the 4" model to the biggest one say "reference". reference in my eyes is not bought for this kind of money. i am not being a snob. the manufacturers ran the prices up into the stratosphere not i. to understand where i am coming from, even though the little von Schweikert sound better and have much better build quality then the klipsch, they are not reference either. in my eyes vr-9 is where the reference starts and they make better speakers than that. so you can understand why i would not call the klipsch "reference" even though they are pretty good speakers._

 

Well it depends on your perspective. I feel that the Sennheiser HD650s are rubbish and not worthy of the "reference" badge that some people give it, but that doesn't that to some people they aren't reference quality cans. If you're used to driving a Pagani Zonda F, a Honda Civic Si won't feel "sporty" anymore, but that doesn't mean it isn't.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_to understand where i am coming from, even though the little von Schweikert sound better and have much better build quality then the klipsch, they are not reference either. in my eyes vr-9 is where the reference starts and they make better speakers than that. so you can understand why i would not call the klipsch "reference" even though they are pretty good speakers._

 

If you feel that the only speakers that qualify as "reference" quality are ones that cost $75K, there is something wrong. Not even the Stereophile reviewers have that opinion, and they get paid by manufacturers to say things like that. In my honest opinion a statement like that is simply absurd, once again that's like saying, the only cars that qualify as sports cars have to cost over $200K and have a badge that says Koenigsegg, Mclaren, Ferrari, or Pagani. Or the only car that can be classified as "luxury" is a Maybach, a Rolls Royce, or a Bentley. If that's not a biased "snobbish" comment, I don't really know what is. I mean I know you have some high quality audio gear and that your standards are a bit higher than most others (Though the DVP-462 topic is still a bit confusing for me) however, a blanket statement that an audio component needs to be that expensive to qualify as reference quality, is simply ludicrous imo.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_pretty much anything at $300 will beat the insignias. one issue is size of the speakers. high end loudspeakers tend to be much bigger and have more drivers. that is why i would rather just blow my $50 on insignias personally. then buy $300 to $1,500 bookshelfs i didn't like anyhow. there are so called real reference bookshelfs like the micro utopia be. i still find the sound to be too small and can allways hear the crossover point in a 2.1 with speakers that only have one mid-bass driver. i am picky. you know i like values. i havent found an incredible value in a bookshelf yet. if the micro utopia be was say $800 a pair i'd be all over that. very few values in audio anymore.

 music_man_

 

This comment _is_ also rather snobbish. To say that there aren't any good bookshelf speakers or monitors under $1500 is the common view of snobby "audiophiles" with huge rooms, tons of cash, and the basic principle that the only speakers worth buying are floorstanding full ranges.

 Back on topic, the Insignias do offer a great price to performance ratio, but just to clarify, to say they are better than any monitor under $500 is a bit optimistic.


----------



## 1967cutlass

Got the speakers, started playing karma police about 30 seconds ago. They sound great! Not perfect, you can definately hear the peak in the upper mids and the slight sibilance but for 50$ who really cares.


----------



## music_man

i guess you are right. my smaller room could use some good bookshelves maybe even $300 ones. that darn denon cannot power them.

 as far as much larger rooms go, bookshelves dissapear in them imho. of course views on what constitutes a large room and at what point bookshelves can't cut it differ.

 there are bookshleves i would have for $300 or $400 and be happy with in a small room with a 8" or 10" sub and 40 watts per channel.

 i don't like many of the mass produced offerings today though. i think it is a detraction that klipsch sleeved the box with plastic ends. i would rather see it all mdf. also i really don't like these cheap binding posts showing up on all the big box store speakers. that may be nitpicking, but just three years ago the posts were much nicer from all these companies.

 i will give klipsch that their cones are well made and inovative. i personally prefer paper,pulp or poly over metal though. many expensive speakers are turning to metal and ceramic midbass also. i did not like metal in tweeters and i do not like it in drivers. klipsch does have a very nice xover in this price range. what i mean to say is you cannot get "the whole package" untill you hit some good money. $400 speakers will have one thing and lack another. this is how the companies compete. one thing may be more important to one person than another. selling $25,000+ speakers is much harder for everyone involved in that sale.

 i think the insignias are a good value. good enough for casual listening/background music. the klipsch are at least 4 times as good as the insignias. i doubt stereophile would give the klipsch a+ and that is the reference level. of course stereophile would not have anything really bad to say about the klipsch either. i do not think they would be impressed with the insignias other than their selling price. that is if you even care what stereophile has to say. i just skip the whole article and look at the letter.
 still, i take what they say with a grain of salt. it is good basis though sometimes.

 like someone said on the net, "$40 speakers is setting your sights kind of low".
 at $300 to $400 in a small room there some decent options as i see it.
 still not "reference" imho. not everyone requires a reference system however. i know people that have more than enough money for this stuff and couldn't care less about good audio. most of them have bose! which is no surprise.

 btw, i was wondering if the klipsch reference baskets are cast? the truth is i really just don't like the sound of metal and horn loaded tweeters. that is just personal taste. they are indeed offering a lot at that price. if they are cast baskets on top of everything else that goes into them they are a very solid value if you like the sound. even if they do not have cast baskets many $300 speakers do not have an xover nearly that good. i think the klipsch are a lot better than similar offerings from polk. this stuff is going to boil down to personal preference regardless of what price point they shop at. shopping for speakers that go on sale for $30 is not leaving many options and i wouldn't be expecting too much. people are mainly wowed by the price/performance ratio of them. the price being the key thing. to put this in perspective, if the insignias were $400 people would be very dissapointed.

 music_man


----------



## 1967cutlass

Hmm the insignias really could use a subwoofer to compliment them. I guess I'm spoiled by the advents I have being flat to about 30hz haha.


----------



## music_man

are the advents heritage?

 those really are a good value. figures they stopped making them.

 music_man


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_are the advents heritage?

 those really are a good value. figures they stopped making them.

 music_man_

 

Dunno, mine are the "advent loudspeaker" ones from the 70's, never heard to them being called heritage. They have the 10" woofer and the orange tweeter, you know the ones. 

 Anyway I bought the dayton 10" sub from partsexpress, the 120$ one. I researched it heavily and the people on audioasylum seem to conclude that it's a good subwoofer, albeit not as good as their 700$ ones. Go figure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## 1967cutlass

I have these ones, but mine are refoamed, refinished, and have black grilles that I made.


----------



## phergus_25

Is the sub like an enclosure and amp or just the driver?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_Dunno, mine are the "advent loudspeaker" ones from the 70's, never heard to them being called heritage. They have the 10" woofer and the orange tweeter, you know the ones. 

 Anyway I bought the dayton 10" sub from partsexpress, the 120$ one. I researched it heavily and the people on audioasylum seem to conclude that it's a good subwoofer, albeit not as good as their 700$ ones. Go figure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* 
_Is the sub like an enclosure and amp or just the driver?_

 

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-633

 Don't laugh, it's supposed to be OK and with shipping DID cost 3x what I spent on the speakers.


----------



## phergus_25

hell its prob decent. I bought a few of these for a guy, thought you might have ment http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...=295-460:evil:


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* 
_hell its prob decent. I bought a few of these for a guy, thought you might have ment http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...=295-460:evil:_

 

Those are supposed to be a really good value. Hopefully the one I bought is good like the insignas are. Not audiophile perfection but enough for my use.


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_Those are supposed to be a really good value. Hopefully the one I bought is good like the insignas are. Not audiophile perfection but enough for my use._

 

Yea deff. Let us know how you like the sub.
 -greg


----------



## music_man

oh, those are real advents 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the name was bought out by audiovox later on and they did still make some decent speakers. then about 3 years ago the brand disappeared.

 i am serious guys, those old slender yst yamaha subs are the real bargain.
 they will not pound you but they are musical. which is actually amazing considering what you could buy them for back then. now they are anywhere on the net and cheap.

 i am of the rare beleif that a sub should be a natural extension of the loudspeakers and not a "ground pounder". i go into a bb store and just cringe at the way they have their stuff set up.

 music_man


----------



## 1967cutlass

Well today was the first day I've tried playing them loud, and all I can say is wow!

 Wow that's terrible! That's what I thought. The first thing I noticed was that once they get loud the upper bass makes the enclosure ring like a bell. Well, more like a plastic boombox speaker than an actual metal instrument, which sounds tuned at least. The boxes seriously need to be deadened, they're absolutely horrible. The bass, to me, isn't THAT bad, but it's not clean enough or full enough. This is basically a problem with ported small driver speakers in general IMO. When I get the subwoofer in the system and get an active crossover going, I'm confident that the bass will sound much much better, since the drivers won't have to keep trying to do something they can't. Between the sub with active Xover and deadening the cabinets I believe these can sound hi-fi in the low end department. 

 The next problem I noticed is the upper mids. High male vocals don't sound natural at all. They sound...bad. I'm not really sure how to explain this, I'm not an audiophile. Maybe this issue will go away or lessen once the speakers are broken in better, or maybe they'll need to be modified. I'm not sure.

 The highs held up pretty well, they remained detailed and under control. I don't really have any problems with the highs, although they aren't really smooth. Whether or not that's bad is just preference. To me they sound fairly analytical, and not empty like some reviews have deemed them. To me, they cymbals in most music sound ok.

 Well, what I can say is that my old advent loudspeakers completely destroy these in every way but very high frequency detail and clarity. You can crank the advents up and they remain 100% under control. Then again, those have a MUCH better box, better drivers, better crossover, &c... so I don't mean to compare them intensively, except for the fact that you can probably find advents for 50$ if you looked long enough. I paid 5$ for mine, they needed a refoam. At any rate, the insignias are at least small enough to take to college.

 Let me know if you guys agree or disagree with my observations. Just so you know, I'm using an av710 24bit soundcard and a clean 100rms@8ohms amp.

 Another note, the speakers sound much better at lower volumes. These flaws don't show themselves much at all at normal (which is quiet when you use them for pc speakers) listening levels.


----------



## uofmtiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* 
_Well today was the first day I've tried playing them loud, and all I can say is wow!

 Wow that's terrible! That's what I thought. The first thing I noticed was that once they get loud the upper bass makes the enclosure ring like a bell. Well, more like a plastic boombox speaker than an actual metal instrument, which sounds tuned at least. The boxes seriously need to be deadened, they're absolutely horrible. The bass, to me, isn't THAT bad, but it's not clean enough or full enough. This is basically a problem with ported small driver speakers in general IMO. When I get the subwoofer in the system and get an active crossover going, I'm confident that the bass will sound much much better, since the drivers won't have to keep trying to do something they can't. Between the sub with active Xover and deadening the cabinets I believe these can sound hi-fi in the low end department. 

 The next problem I noticed is the upper mids. High male vocals don't sound natural at all. They sound...bad. I'm not really sure how to explain this, I'm not an audiophile. Maybe this issue will go away or lessen once the speakers are broken in better, or maybe they'll need to be modified. I'm not sure.

 The highs held up pretty well, they remained detailed and under control. I don't really have any problems with the highs, although they aren't really smooth. Whether or not that's bad is just preference. To me they sound fairly analytical, and not empty like some reviews have deemed them. To me, they cymbals in most music sound ok.

 Well, what I can say is that my old advent loudspeakers completely destroy these in every way but very high frequency detail and clarity. You can crank the advents up and they remain 100% under control. Then again, those have a MUCH better box, better drivers, better crossover, &c... so I don't mean to compare them intensively, except for the fact that you can probably find advents for 50$ if you looked long enough. I paid 5$ for mine, they needed a refoam. At any rate, the insignias are at least small enough to take to college.

 Let me know if you guys agree or disagree with my observations. Just so you know, I'm using an av710 24bit soundcard and a clean 100rms@8ohms amp.

 Another note, the speakers sound much better at lower volumes. These flaws don't show themselves much at all at normal (which is quiet when you use them for pc speakers) listening levels._

 

There is a lot of value in the used market, but you are always taking your chances. That is why a lot of people buy new. Also, shipping on speakers can be expensive. I have a pair of Pinnacle PN5+ bookshelf speakers I got off of eBay for $29 and the shipping was around another $20 (don't remember exactly). They are great sounding speakers for the money and sound smoother than the Insignias, but the shipping made them a bit less of a bargain.

 I have never listened to them that loud, so I will give that a try. Like you said, they sound decent at normal volumes. One other thing is that many people say they sound better after break-in. I ran mine for about 8 hours every day for over a week before I listened to them at all. I still think they are a bargain for NEW $50 speakers. The used market is always hit and miss, so if you buy anything new, you usually pay more for it.


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uofmtiger* 
_There is a lot of value in the used market, but you are always taking your chances. That is why a lot of people buy new. Also, shipping on speakers can be expensive. I have a pair of Pinnacle PN5+ bookshelf speakers I got off of eBay for $29 and the shipping was around another $20 (don't remember exactly). They are great sounding speakers for the money and sound smoother than the Insignias, but the shipping made them a bit less of a bargain.

 I have never listened to them that loud, so I will give that a try. Like you said, they sound decent at normal volumes. One other thing is that many people say they sound better after break-in. I ran mine for about 8 hours every day for over a week before I listened to them at all. I still think they are a bargain for NEW $50 speakers. The used market is always hit and miss, so if you buy anything new, you usually pay more for it._

 

I'll have to break them in for sure, but that isn't going to change the cabinet issues. The bass resonance shouldn't be as big of a deal once the sub gets here this week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. You're right though, they are a bargain, and they sure do look nice.


----------



## music_man

i noticed that if you get the insignias going with a real 75 watts the motors are working very hard. they have reached maximum excursion by then.

 concentrics from tannoy and kef don't even wake up untill they get 50 watts.

 the insignias are not more efficient. they sound terrible at high volume. they just fall apart. i still like them for $30. better than juster computer speakers.

 music_man


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_i noticed that if you get the insignias going with a real 75 watts the motors are working very hard. they have reached maximum excursion by then.

 concentrics from tannoy and kef don't even wake up untill they get 50 watts.

 the insignias are not more efficient. they sound terrible at high volume. they just fall apart. i still like them for $30. better than juster computer speakers.

 music_man_

 

I strongly believe that the biggest reason they fall apart at high levels is because the enclosure is bad, and it's ported so it lets the driver get more out of control than it would if it were sealed. With the amount of power I have on tap, I didn't take the volume past 1/3 and they were almost maxed out, close to xmag but not xsus.


----------



## Chiliman

These bad boys are on sale for 39.99 right now... too bad they are out of stock at almost every location within 100 miles of where i live.


----------



## 1967cutlass

AHAHAHAHA

 The parts express sub got here today. You guys that are saying it's a nice little "small" sub are crazy. It's quite gigantic for a 120$ home subwoofer IMO. More details on the SQ later, but so far I have to say that it seems to be built very well, the overall finish quality is very high. The knobs and inputs on the amp DO NOT scream "cheap subwoofer".


----------



## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_i noticed that if you get the insignias going with a real 75 watts the motors are working very hard. they have reached maximum excursion by then._

 

Any speaker driver's distortion increases dramatically as excursion increases.

  Quote:


 concentrics from tannoy and kef don't even wake up untill they get 50 watts. 
 

If you're implying that concentrics from Tannoy and Kef can reach equal loudness levels with less excursion, that's not true, assuming drivers of identical size. SPL is a function of how much air you move, which is a function of cone size and displacement. There is no magic.

 For distortion, power and efficiency are not really issues, except with relation to power compression. Distortion-wise, they are essentially irrelevant.

 On the other hand, obviously more expensive drivers can usually handle greater excursion with lower distortion.

 The important thing here is that keeping excursion reasonable is the most effective way to reduce distortion. That's why, if you have a subwoofer, a person should high-pass bookshelf-sized mains, regardless of what the conventional audiophile "wisdom" is about this (a crossover on the mains reduces sonic "purity", etc.).


----------



## music_man

with the tannoys 20db louder(read with meter) than the insignias, the tannoys are hardly moving. whereas the insignias are already slapping. the tannoys still have plenty left in them after that. they are pro monitors that will reach absurd pressure levels. i do not know the actual volume of the tannoys cabinets but i do not see them being vastly larger than the insignias. there is no magic, you are right. it is just that the tannoys are very well designed and the insignias are not.

 the kef's are more of a musical speaker(colored). they are nice to. they will not reach the amazing sound pressure levels of the tannoys. they also exhibit visible excursion as do most small speakers at reasonable levels. it takes close inspection to see that the tannoy's are even moving at 120db at 1 meter! there is also no more distortion from them at that level than if they are played at 60db.

 i completely understand the physics of displacement,volume,movement etc. so i never really did get how the tannoys exhibit almost no excursion. they are not even a particularly stiff cone. no magic. maybe a magic trick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

Sealed box? I have observed that drivers in sealed boxes have very low visibility in excursion in my limited experience. My current pair of speakers exhibit the same phenomenon. Pushing 105db+, the drivers can barely be seen to move. Distortion inevitably goes up with volume/excursion, but it's audibility is not always apparent. Play a 50hz tone or lower and distortion should be very easy to hear quite early, even starting as low as around 70db.


----------



## Chiliman

how are the mids in these, i am tired of having bad mids in speakers, and was wondering if these were decent.


----------



## music_man

they have two large ports. the box is state of the art computer designed.
 it minimizes turbulence among other things.

 i think it boils down to what a cabinet can do when it is state of the art and when the other is made of left over cabinet roll, lol.

 the insignias do not reach high levels for me. they are visibly and audibly overdriven at rather low levels in my experience. it is not hard to explain. most expensive well designed speakers will reach higher levels at less distortion than cheap poorly designed ones.

 there is heat in the motor. design of the cone and surround material,voice coil wire,magnet material and size,cabinet and port tuning. a lot of stuff has to be thought of to design a top speaker and the r&d department went home early here. they are $39 though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the binding posts and front baffle are worth $39 easily.

 don't get me wrong. you would be hard pressed to get better speakers for $150 a pair. the fact is that even $150 is hardly hi-fi.

 i found their receiver to be an even better value than these speakers. competing with some $400 receivers(imho). i do have a question about it. if anyone wants, please see cables,power forum.

 music_man


----------



## ooheadsoo

I'm curious, what model tannoys are you referencing? It could be that the ports are tuned low enough that the program material is not pushing the woofers in the range that would cause the woofers to use up their excursion.


----------



## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chiliman* 
_how are the mids in these, i am tired of having bad mids in speakers, and was wondering if these were decent._

 

They're fine, nothing special. I'd just buy a pair and if you don't like them return them.


----------



## music_man

the ones i was speaking of are "system 600" circa 1999. i also use newer,higher end tannoys. the pro ones have always been able to obtain high pressure levels without breaking a sweat compared to their hi-fi siblings. i guess that is the nature of the beast.

 music_man


----------



## Chiliman

I am thinking of building a surround sound system around these. Is there any center channel speaker (aside from using another one of these speakers) that matches the sound really well?


----------



## Hanzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chiliman* 
_I am thinking of building a surround sound system around these. Is there any center channel speaker (aside from using another one of these speakers) that matches the sound really well?_

 

Remeber no mag shielding on these...


----------



## Chiliman

yes, i remember that, but do you know of any center channel that matches these well. usually center channels are shielded


----------



## music_man

something seems really strange to me. when in various bb stores i find these and a pair of very cheap yamahas to best pretty much every bookshelf in the store. stores with magnolia are selling $2,500 bookshelfs and i find these better in the store. i think these may be very forgiving of terrible setup. since their listening rooms stink. that has got to be what it is. i know it is subjective but how can these possibly be better than $2,500 speakers?

 on the other hand once they are at home in various rooms that are well setup these speakers become nothing special. now that bb sells upper mid-fi gear i wish they had a proper way to demo it. i don't know what kind of person decides on a $50,000 home theater based on what they see/hear in that store. everything is setup in there as bad as possibly can be. the displays are on "torch" the eq's on the receivers are topped out and the walls are the worst acoustic material, then there is the 20 boom boxes playing in the background. i personally could not spend more than $300 on something at that store because of this.

 i am trying to find out something about that insignia receiver but of course the bb sales dodo's cannot answer it nor can the insignia toll free number.

 these are all reasons to not spend a lot of money in there. i guess some people do though.

 music_man


----------



## cfo

I agree that within the confines of a BB store the Insignia's are about as good or better than anything there. I auditioned them and might have tried them at home but they were out of stock. Based on what I heard I don't feel compelled to go back, however, BB is a horrible place to audition audio equipment.
 If you compare the Insignia's to speakers that are even slightly more expensive, I think their weaknesses become apparent. I thought the little Yamaha's in BB were very close to them in sound quality, if not even a little smoother.
 I recently auditioned 9 different bookshelf speakers at around the $300 or lower mark.
 I thought the Infinity Primus 150, which I could get for between $67-82/pair were a little more refined than the Insignia's, but were not keepers for me.
 I thought the Paradigm Titan's v3 which I got for $200 were far and away the best sounding of the bunch and the only speaker that I heard that successfully challenges more expensive speakers. I used the Spendor S3/5which I also own as a reference point. 
 I believe Paradigm is now changing their lineup to "v4" so some dealers are offering discounts on remaining v3 stock.


----------



## Chiliman

I just bought these. They sound incredible for the price! Can't wait to buy the rear speakers. Anyone want to split a set for center channels in the Bay Area (California)??


----------



## Chiliman

I just realized something that made me pretty depressed... these are the best speakers I have ever owned... and they only cost 50 dollars... (but at least my headphone setup sounds better.) These are GREAT for a budget home theater setup!


----------



## Ingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chiliman* 
_I just realized something that made me pretty depressed... these are the best speakers I have ever owned... and they only cost 50 dollars... (but at least my headphone setup sounds better.) These are GREAT for a budget home theater setup!_

 

Mind over matter... If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. They sound good enough to me that I don't need any other speaker setup. I have these set up on my computer using the Insignia tuner/integrated amp to power them. I think I'm going to build a 2.1 for my living room with a second pair of Insignias. I might get a something like a Pioneer A-35R to power that, though.


----------



## Chiliman

well, considering i use my cans for all music listening, all i need the speakers for is movies, and these get the job done very nicely!


----------



## hyamaiata

I was going to order these speakers along with the T-Amp yesterday but I've found out that the T-Amp is sold out everywhere. Does anyone knows of any store where it is available?

 Thanks.


----------



## Uncle Erik

I wound up in a BestBuy last weekend while I was in Phoenix. After raiding their small SACD section, I wandered back to the speakers and gave the Insignias a listen. Not bad, not bad at all. I was seriously tempted to buy a pair, but held back because I have too many speakers already. Though I might have to give Dad a pair for Christmas. They sound very good for the price.


----------



## music_man

on the far other side of the best buy....

 in the magnolia room. they have some vienna acoustics hayden's.
 they are $2,000. as usual bb picked out only the very best values.
 they are making me kick myself in the head for buying the outrageously priced focal/jmlab micro utopia be's recently.

 well at least i am currently powering them with the $75 insignia integrated amp/tuner lol. i am not kidding. it is not bad either. i just removed the bryston for a few days to see what the insignia can do. it does not disappoint!

 china's economy will only get better and they will demand a western lifestyle soon. so these type of values cannot keep up. enjoy this while it lasts.

 it is like japan in the late sixties/early seventies all over again.

 music_man


----------



## Ingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_
*well at least i am currently powering them with the $75 insignia integrated amp/tuner lol. i am not kidding. it is not bad either. i just removed the bryston for a few days to see what the insignia can do. it does not disappoint!*


 music_man_

 

I bought my Insignia 2ch. receiver for $16.50 on ebay... of course the shipping was $30.00. But, for $46.50, I'd say the value is in proportion with the bookshelves (and out of proportion with the rest of the world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 )


----------



## soundboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ingo* 
_I bought my Insignia 2ch. receiver for $16.50 on ebay... of course the shipping was $30.00. But, for $46.50, I'd say the value is in proportion with the bookshelves (and out of proportion with the rest of the world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 )_

 

I have been wondering about this receiver for a while. So it's that good?


----------



## Ingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_I have been wondering about this receiver for a while. So it's that good?_

 

Well... it's not terrible? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For my purpose it far exceeded my expectations. The Insignia bookshelves and the 2 Channel Receiver create much better sound than say... Any all-in-one mini-shelf system that I've ever heard. Before I bought the Insignia combo I had a Sony all-in-one 60CD changer shelf system thing that was like $250 originally. The Insignia setup blows that out of the water 8 times over. And, it's also better than every PC speaker setup that I've heard (although I haven't heard any high-end PC speaker setups like the Klipsch promedia 2.1).


----------



## Chiliman

So, no one has experience with any center channel speakers with these?


----------



## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chiliman* 
_So, no one has experience with any center channel speakers with these?_

 

It doesn't make any sense to go with another center channel. Except for the unshielded nature of these speakers, they're perfect center channel speakers. The goal of a center channel is a smooth horizontal power response, and coaxials are almost as good as you can get in that area. A conventional MT speaker, and certainly not a sideways MTM, is not going to make a better center channel, even ignoring the problem of finding a center channel that has the same overall sound.


----------



## akwok

I'm looking to purchase a pair of these to use when headphones are not possible. Will these work fine on a 30W power amp (Aleph)? 

 Similarly, does anyone know where I can pick these up in Canada?


----------



## music_man

if anyone wishes, go see my post about the receiver in amplification.
 it should give some insight into it's realitive strengths and weaknesses.

 music_man


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chiliman* 
_So, no one has experience with any center channel speakers with these?_

 

Well a few pages back I stated that I added my older Klipsch KV1 center channel with these and to my ears it appears to synergize fine with the Insignia speakers. That's the only center channel I own so I don't know of any other more current speakers that would work.


----------



## music_man

since we are all modding these. why not just put a "can" on the magnet for sheilding. maybe madisound has one. or you could just make one.

 music_man


----------



## SR-71Panorama

I just got these today, along w/ parts express super T amp, dayton speakerwire, monster RCA, & Auralex MoPad isolation pads. Connected it to M-audio Transit. Fired it up. LOL...yup...worth every penny
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This should not sound this good. I am confused and giddy. Now Im going to demand my friends do the same. Its SO cheap! I've got Second Skin Audio Damplifier, Spectrum Sludge and Overkill Pro that I may squeeze into the box in a few days. 
 Its been a long time since i've bothered even entertaining the_ idea_ of speakers. That thought disapeared for a while when I got my HD650s. But its always good to have something for those times when I just don't feel like headphones, like when I get out of the shower with wet hair. I may get a PS3 to hookup by my computer. These would be quite fun as the sound source. In a small room, I don't really need a sub. It would be nice, but I don't think I'll crave it too much.
 They look fantastic sans grills too.
*Much thanks to all previous posts for the excellent ideas and opinions/descriptions.*


----------



## music_man

you spent more $$ on the accessories than the speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music_man


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## milesbeyondjazz

I wonder how could their CD players are?Anybody heard them yet?


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## SR-71Panorama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_you spent more $$ on the accessories than the speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

LOL... yup
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually I've been on the fence about buying Omega Super 3 speakers which go for about $650, but I decided that I would get these as a sort of temporary fix / secondary system, which would allow me to save more cash for floorstanding speakers, such as Omega Super 3 XRS, SuperHemp, or maybe even something from Zu, while still having something in the meantime. But I bought some of the stuff from parts express before finally choosing what speakers to get for now.

 Its been a strange week for me. I read about/discovered the Super T amp, (and potential red wine audio upgrade versions), the Insignia's, and Omega speakers. I've been going back and forth on what to get, and finally decided to just go to Best Buy, for some instant gratification
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I also intend on getting a Presonus Central Station, and bass shakers for my headphone setup. I would like to experiment with simultaneous headphones and insignia (just for fun), but especially want bass impact with headphones the most.

 BTW, I picked up the last pair of insignias in the store.


----------



## ooheadsoo

AFAIK, a can over the magnet doesn't actually work for shielding. What does work somewhat is a bucking magnet, but that usually changes the electrical parameters of the driver, throwing the xover out of whack.


----------



## music_man

there are shielded designs that use solely a can. it is designed as an integral part of the basket. you probably couldn't just stick a can on any magnet and expect much shielding. those designs are mostly with 3-4" drivers. so you can see why it works. those do not radiate much.

 sr-71, i read that fast and thought you wrote "red rose" i almost fell over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 insignia is incredible because no other products exist in these categories at these prices. i wish they would make some "high end" audio for,hmm. a whopping $500?

 music_man


----------



## Ingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_insignia is incredible because no other products exist in these categories at these prices. *i wish they would make some "high end" audio for,hmm. a whopping $500?*

 music_man_

 


 Yes... yes... Insignia Platinum Diamond Premier Elite Series.


----------



## music_man

you should get a patent now! i am sure that would be the perfect name for it given bb's target demographic.

 music_man


----------



## SR-71Panorama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_you should get a patent now! i am sure that would be the perfect name for it given bb's target demographic.

 music_man_

 

LOL...and they can offer (peddle) an ultra deluxe extended warranty to the tune of 170 bucks...seriously they tried to get me to pay 15 bucks for an additional warranty...for a 47$ purchase....I almost laughed in their face! I also wouldn't be able to moddify the internal structure
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 They also tried to give me a partial subscription to a magazine of my choice, Time, Sports Illustrated, and a few others. Again, I politley declined, seeing as how I paid straight with my bank debit card.


----------



## music_man

bb makes their entire profit on spifs. that means warranties and now magazine subscriptions etc. they cannot make a profit on merchandise at the prices they offer. you would be surprised how many warranties they sell.

 they put huge pressure on their employees to sell warranties. the employees always state they are not on comission. they are for warranties though! which is bb's entire profit margin. typical bs.

 bb will "bargain" on many products nowdays. especially if you offer to buy the warranty right up front. on expensive products if you save $150 and buy a $75 warranty it is actually a win-win situation for both the consumer and bb.

 music_man


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## Azure

I'm going to Best Buy right now and might pick up these speakers, but I just have one quick question: What kind of amp do I need to power these? If I pick them up today I'd definetly like to be able to use them today/for the time being until I pick up a more suitable amp. Can I use my old amplifier from my speaker system?


----------



## Blueiz

Azure.... don't know which amp you currently have, but if it is "run of the mill" I don't see why it wouldn't drive the Insignias... BTW, they are on sale right now... $10 off on the web site....


----------



## SayNoToPistons

Not available at my local best buy.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 shipping is over 20 dollars...


----------



## Azure

Blah, I didn't notice that they were sale on the website. Just got back from Best Buy and ended up getting them for $53.68 (the only one they had it seems...):


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## Blueiz

Got 'em at my BB yesterday for a friend..... one store had them, another didn't....


----------



## Blueiz

Worth the fifty bucks, anyway.... Let us know what you think.... remember they were ONLY $50...


----------



## Azure

First I want to make sure that I don't blow them out with my old stereo amp/receiver. I'm a huge noob in the speaker world, so I don't know too much on how much power these speakers can take and if my old amp will provide too much or something (Since my old amp powered floor speakers).


----------



## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First I want to make sure that I don't blow them out with my old stereo amp/receiver. I'm a huge noob in the speaker world, so I don't know too much on how much power these speakers can take and if my old amp will provide too much or something (Since my old amp powered floor speakers)._

 

it will be fine, I really dont know of any reviecer that cant take an 8 ohm load, which the insignias have.
 Just hook them up and start with the volume at 0.
 -greg


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## Blueiz

Azure.... They will handle up to 120 watts... they are 8 ohm speakers... My NAD hasn't hurt them yet... enjoy.


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## Azure

Okay, got it all hooked up.

 For $50 this is a WONDERFUL bargain. Definetly one of the smartest purchases I have ever made. The sound is a very pleasant and welcomed change from the world of headphones. Obviously the detail is nowhere near as great as my SR-404s, but the authority/weight and air is VERY NICE (ESPECIALLY coming from the SR-404s!)!

 Now I just have to properly space them out and do some room adjustment


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## Blueiz

Glad you are pleased with them.... they will definitely give you fifty bucks worth of pleasure.... I think they have rather decent imaging as well (again for $50).


----------



## MikeW

I wonder how these compare to the Klipsch Quintet III satelites. They are going to be 250$ for black friday. But i could get 6 of these for 150$


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## ssportclay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how these compare to the Klipsch Quintet III satelites. They are going to be 250$ for black friday. But i could get 6 of these for 150$_

 

I can't tell you how the Insignias compare to the Kilpsch but when I compared them with the Von Schweikerts in my system I was very disapointed in them.The Insignias are a good value at $40 but that is about it.My recommendation would be to spend more money and get the much better Athena bookshelf speakers or maybe the highly regarded AV123 x-ls which I have not heard yet.


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## litlharsh

I'm a complete speaker n00b, but even I've found that my 10$ creatives w/ sub just aren't cutting it (comparing to a ksc75) These look amazing, so I was wondering if they could be used with an AV710. Also, I have absolutely no amp, what would be suitable to drive these, under 50 bucks?

 EDIT: And I listen to rap a lot, bass heavy, would i need a sub? and would that require extra power?

 EDIT2: well nevermind, these things aren't shielded and i have a crt


----------



## SayNoToPistons

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *litlharsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a complete speaker n00b, but even I've found that my 10$ creatives w/ sub just aren't cutting it (comparing to a ksc75) These look amazing, so I was wondering if they could be used with an AV710. Also, I have absolutely no amp, what would be suitable to drive these, under 50 bucks?

 EDIT: And I listen to rap a lot, bass heavy, would i need a sub? and would that require extra power?

 EDIT2: well nevermind, these things aren't shielded and i have a crt_

 

1: you need an amp

 for edit: yes and yes

 for edit 2: oh, ok.


----------



## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *litlharsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT2: well nevermind, these things aren't shielded and i have a crt_

 

So do I, I have a Samsung 27" and the speakers are maybe 6" from the side of the TV....No problems here.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *litlharsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: And I listen to rap a lot, bass heavy, would i need a sub? and would that require extra power?_

 

There is a decent amount of bass for a 6.5" coax...but no bookshelf speaker will give you the slamming bass a decent sub will.


----------



## SayNoToPistons

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *c0mfortably_numb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So do I, I have a Samsung 27" and the speakers are maybe 6" from the side of the TV....No problems here.


 There is a decent amount of bass for a 6.5" coax...but no bookshelf speaker will give you the slamming bass a decent sub will._

 

+1, bookshelf speakers should/will never substitute for what a subwoofer does.


----------



## music_man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssportclay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't tell you how the Insignias compare to the Kilpsch but when I compared them with the Von Schweikerts in my system I was very disapointed in them.The Insignias are a good value at $40 but that is about it.My recommendation would be to spend more money and get the much better Athena bookshelf speakers or maybe the highly regarded AV123 x-ls which I have not heard yet._

 


 lol. you compared them to von schweikert. did you see i compared them to wilson? i think we might accidently be smelling the glue that holds these $40 speakers together. at least it wears off as soon as we compare them to speakers $$$ times their price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music_man


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## ssportclay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol. you compared them to von schweikert. did you see i compared them to wilson? i think we might accidently be smelling the glue that holds these $40 speakers together. at least it wears off as soon as we compare them to speakers $$$ times their price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music_man_

 

Hi Music Man:I have never heard a Wilson speaker but some of our members don't seem to think too highly of them given their high cost.If they don't sound much better than the Insignias,then mabe there is something to this.


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## music_man

i think you misunderstood me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i happen to think wilsons and(long since defunct) apogee acoustics are probably the best cost no object speakers ever made. speakers are subjective. many people do not like wilson. on the other hand i think anyone would rather have the watt/puppies than these insignias if they were given a free choice. regardless of their respective costs. based solely on their sound.

 come on, you are comparing $40 speakers to $25,000 ones. i would seriously hope the wilsons sound better to anyone who has properly working ears.
 it is not even fair to compare watt/puppies to the vr-1 which are at least close in size to the insignias. the watt/puppies intended competitor from vs is the vr-5. at any given level speaker comparisen is highly subjective. at least compare speakers of within 20 grand of each other. sheesh!

 now, whether you prefer the wilsons,vandersteens or von schweikerts is personally subjective. to compare them to $40 speakers suggesting that you favor the $40 ones is not even a funny joke. if they were that embarrassing across the board wilson would not have ben making them as long as they have. they have sold very well indeed. which says an awful lot given their very limited market.

 can you tell i was offended? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music_man

 edited, forgot to put my sig and i spelled vandersteen wrong(how horrible of me!)


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## ssportclay

I think the Insignias are a good value for what they are but they cannot run with the Athenas or the Ascend speakers for a bit more money.I have never heard any Wilson models but If you would go to the trouble to to a search on this site you will find some comments on them.


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## music_man

i will. if anyone said they are only worth $40 or such, they are speaking out of anger for whatever reason. maybe they are not everyones cup of tea. maybe the consensus is that one could do beter for $25k. no one would seriously state that a $40 pair of chinese speakers are better sounding than the wilsons!

 maybe some people even favor a certain pair of $5,000 speakers. that is possible. as i said, this is highly subjective. comparing them to $40 speakers is done for solely one purpose. an insult!

 that is like having a ferrari that saw the shop 6 times in one year and now the owner walks around saying how much better hyundai is. not fair at all.

 you mention the athenas as better then the insignias. athenas are a slight step up in the lo-fi world. wilsons are understood to be super-fi.
 if anyone makes such comparisons they are either joking or hold a grudge for whatever reason.

 you did say you have not heard them? i doubt yourself, or anyone would put them at the level of the insignias if they were being honest. one capacitor on the crossovers of the wilsons costs 3 times the price of the complete insignias.

 music_man


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## music_man

used the search. the wilsons keep coming up in posts with titles such as "the best speakers you have ever heard?"

 it is you flaming them,right?

 i don't mind if you want to dump on them. at least say why?

 music_man


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## ssportclay

I think you are getting a bit carried away with your comments.I don't really like the Insignias and you accused me of sniffing glue.The tweeters and the crossover do leave a lot to be desired and I still recommend that someone should spend more to get something that sounds nice.I find the Athenas to be acceptable.As far as the the Wilsons are concerned,I remember Tuberoller making some unfavorable comments a few years back.Don't shoot the messenger because I have never heard any Wilson speakers but I have heard the Insignias and I cannot recommend them and there was never any glue involved.


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## c0mfortably_numb

These speakers are bargain speakers and they sound damn fine for $40 Athena's maybe a step up and sound a little better as they should considering they cost 3.5 time more.

 I thought of saving up for a pair of Axiom M3's but after buying these Insignia for $40 and auditioning them I think there fine. I only have an older Sony Receiver and Onkyo DVD player so I think anything more then the Insignia's with my components would be criminal


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## music_man

i think we both misunderstood each other. 

 i did not accuse you or anyone of sniffing glue. it was a joke meaning that maybe we all accidently smelled some which is what led us all to say good things about these cheap speakers. i meant that statement as a complete joke pertaining to everyone that has heard them. like they had magic voodoo that came over us all to make us think they were good. i did not mean for anyone to think i was suggesting they were doing drugs or something.

 i am sorry you misunderstood my joke. i mean no hard feelings.

 as far as tuberoller not liking the wilsons. that is what i mean. it is very subjective. tuberoller has very good taste in hi-fi if i say so myself. that does not mean the wilsons are overpriced by well over 20 grand.

 well, to be honest i do not even know what he said. untill i see it first hand i cannot comment. you can find great reviews of them all over the net. not everything is for everybody. thats all.

 anyhow, i meant you nor anyone else any offence. 

 music_man


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## ssportclay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i think we both misunderstood each other. 

 i did not accuse you or anyone of sniffing glue. it was a joke meaning that maybe we all accidently smelled some which is what led us all to say good things about these cheap speakers. i meant that statement as a complete joke pertaining to everyone that has heard them. like they had magic voodoo that came over us all to make us think they were good. i did not mean for anyone to think i was suggesting they were doing drugs or something.

 i am sorry you misunderstood my joke. i mean no hard feelings.

 as far as tuberoller not liking the wilsons. that is what i mean. it is very subjective. tuberoller has very good taste in hi-fi if i say so myself. that does not mean the wilsons are overpriced by well over 20 grand.

 well, to be honest i do not even know what he said. untill i see it first hand i cannot comment. you can find great reviews of them all over the net. not everything is for everybody. thats all.

 anyhow, i meant you nor anyone else any offence. 

 music_man_

 

Accepted:I can't remember the details or conditions of his comments but a search I am sure will surface them.


----------



## music_man

alright. glad i cleared that up. i meant no hard feelings.

 i saw that tuberoller hates them. 
 some people(including myself) really like them. i doubt they would have been around for so many years at that price if everyone felt the way tuberoller does. they must have enough fans.

 as i always say, headphones and loudspeakers are prone to high subjectivity.
 for each person that hates brand "x" headphone or loudspeaker there is another person that loves them. the proof is in the pudding. wilson would have been out of bussiness decades ago if their products were universally disliked by everyone.

 nonetheless, maybe some people really don't like them when they go shopping in that particular market. however i doubt anyone has the audacity to bash them so far as to say the insignias are undoubtedly better.

 i could see someone even prefering the vr-1 over the wilsons. that is feasable if you really like von schweikert regardless of the price difference.

 the insignias are the lowest lo-fi that can be had. comparing them to wilsons and favoring them would only be for the sake of bashing the wilsons. it is not a truthful comparisen by anyones standards. at least i would hope.

 ok, sorry i defended them so vehemently. you can see how i would feel bad to have them compared to $40 speakers. that makes me look like the town idiot or something.

 i mentioned in this thread that i had the insignias on stands a foot from either wilson. i'll go out on a limb and say i only did so to amuse myself. the results were as expected. the insignias a good value they are, but still $40 speakers.

 music_man


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## uzziah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_most people should be able to afford $400 speakers_

 

gotta be honest, comments like this make me want to frickin go ballistic

 i'd start cussing now, but i won't


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## uzziah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *c0mfortably_numb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea I got about 18 or so hours on them since yesterday, and I think they sound great, and defintley better with some burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just ordered some speaker wire from Bluejeans last night so I can add my old Klipsch center channel to this setup, well far from reference I think it will be a fine sound system on the cheap.

 Now all I need is some speaker stands, anyone think these would be decent? I am sure they would have to be better then the 2 cardboard boxes I am using for stands right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

no, i think you should get cinder blocks for $50 speakers


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## music_man

i still do think most people can could afford $400 speakers if they so wanted.
 i am not including everyone below the poverty level in that statement. they obviously cannot. $400usd for anything in america is not very much at this point. don't get mad at me i didn't set the prices.

 music_man


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## wax4213

The problem becomes priorities. Sure, most people could scrape up $400 for speakers, but they'd have to take hits in other, sometimes more important, parts of their budget. The poverty line is not a good place to determine when someone could afford $400 for speakers, I have plenty of friends who are lower middle class, but because of family size and other conditions, would never be able to afford $400 speakers. And this is parents included, not just the people my age. $400 can buy a lot of things other than speakers, that are frankly more important.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wax4213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem becomes priorities. Sure, most people could scrape up $400 for speakers, but they'd have to take hits in other, sometimes more important, parts of their budget. The poverty line is not a good place to determine when someone could afford $400 for speakers, I have plenty of friends who are lower middle class, but because of family size and other conditions, would never be able to afford $400 speakers. And this is parents included, not just the people my age. $400 can buy a lot of things other than speakers, that are frankly more important._

 

Exactly, it's the difference between "can buy" and "can afford".


----------



## wax4213

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly, it's the difference between "can buy" and "can afford"._

 

That's is an amazingly concise way to say that, and yes, that is exactly what I was trying to get at.


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## uzziah

i just find comments like that in rather bad taste


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## uzziah

anyone compare these to budget polk's? like r15, r150, r50, any of those? i'm deciding whether to build a budget 5.1 with insignia's, polks, or somethin else


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## music_man

i am sorry. i didn't mean to offend anyone.

 i was making that statement in the general theme of this forum. i understand the perspective of the reality of many peoples saleries. on the other hand when you see many of our forum members repeatedly purchasing multi thousand dollar items it makes $400 seem rather lean.

 again, that is not my own real opinion. i am just looking at what i see here and elsewhere. i do understand many people are struggling.

 so i retract the statement of "most". let's make that "many"?

 nonetheless, if all you could afford is the the insignias then you would be elated to have them. plenty of people here have said they are just too inexpensive to be any good. i didn't say that! some of you guys did.

 well i think i said it too but i certainly was not the first person to say so.

 music_man


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## wax4213

I wasn't offended, just so you know, just wanted to make sure that we all understood that $400 is a large amount of money for quite a few people. And yeah, the "many" as opposed to "most" change is good, I would agree with that statement. Especially here on headfi, like you said. Some of us are a little more free with our money, for whatever reason, than quite a bit of the public. Or maybe we just choose to spend our money here rather than on other things, whatever those may be.


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## Nasir

If I were to connect a T-amp to these, what cables would I need? I see the T-amp has spring clips, so pin connectors should work according to this glossary, but the review on 6moons says "you need to stick with bare wire." This review says that the Insignias "can use bare-wire, pins, spades, or banana plugs." Would I be able to use bare wire on the T-amp side and some connector on the Insignia side? Also, how do you hook up bare wire anyway? These will be my first speakers, so I have never done anything like yet. Any guides to recommend?

 Note, I don't want to spend much on the wires, less than $15 if possible. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Electro Point

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nasir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to connect a T-amp to these, what cables would I need? I see the T-amp has spring clips, so pin connectors should work according to this glossary, but the review on 6moons says "you need to stick with bare wire." This review says that the Insignias "can use bare-wire, pins, spades, or banana plugs." Would I be able to use bare wire on the T-amp side and some connector on the Insignia side? Also, how do you hook up bare wire anyway? These will be my first speakers, so I have never done anything like yet. Any guides to recommend?

 Note, I don't want to spend much on the wires, less than $15 if possible. Thanks in advance._

 

You can use bare wire but the plugs will have "better" connection and also prevent corrosion since if your using bare wires for a long term period the bare metal wiring will oxidize and cause corrision to whatever metal its touching so this will degrade the sound quality since you don't have a solid electrical connection.

 Bare wire means to strip the insulator/sleeving off the cable to expose the metal strands under it. This can be done with various tools, though using a wire stripping IMO doesn't work best. I would take a razor blade and cut around the sleeving then take a plier and lightly pull it off to expose the copper wiring. To connect it after you do that twist the strands together and then open up the spring-clip post behind the amp, stick it in, then lock the clip and your done. For the 5-way binding post behind the Insignia speaker you unscrew the cap nut, stick the wire into a hole which is in the stem of the binding post, screw the cap nut back on and thats it.

 Here are a couple picture showing how to hook up bare wire to spring-clip and 5-way binding post. Also one showing banana plugs in use with the 5-way binding post.


 First you going to have to press down the spring clip.





 While your still holding down the spring clip, insert the bare wire then release the clip and it should grab the wiring and force it against the metal plate inside the post.





 Now heres bare wiring with 5-way binding post.





 Banana plugs in use





 For cables how long do you have to run the cable from the amp to the speaker? If its not that long buy the spools which have the lowest amount for what you need. Like say you need 10 feet for each speaker, buy the speaker wire spool that is 20 feet. 
 Since you do not want to spend much on wiring try some "generic" 18 gauge or 16 gauge speaker cable which will do fine and does not cost much at all.


----------



## Nasir

Thanks so much for the pictures.

 What brand of bare wire and banana plugs under $20 (let's say 20 feet) would you guys recommend, or is the difference in sound quality not going to be noticeable from a generic with these speakers and a T-amp?

 Some of the cables here seem inexpensive and are of high gauge.


----------



## jbloudg20

The question I think I have about these speakers: how far up the budget chain do these compare?

 Example: many people might agree the KSC75 sound more like $50-60 'phones.


----------



## music_man

speaker tastes are highly subjective.

 for my taste these could compete with a few offerings up to $200 a pair.
 on the other hand most $200 per pair speakers sound better to me.
 i'd say they hold there own with just about anything under $100 per pair.
 remember, these are only $35 on sale.

 music_man


----------



## Ingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_speaker tastes are highly subjective.

 for my taste these could compete with a few offerings up to $200 a pair.
 on the other hand most $200 per pair speakers sound better to me.
 i'd say they hold there own with just about anything under $100 per pair.
 remember, these are only $35 on sale.

 music_man_

 

Granted, I don't know anything about speakers, I have heard a bunch of CRAPPY speakers at Best Buy, Circuit City, and Fry's Electronics. I haven't found a pair of satisfactory sounding bookself besides the Insignia's at those stores. I'm sure (especially at Fry's) that those stores might carry something that is truly better than the Insignia's


----------



## jbloudg20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_speaker tastes are highly subjective.

 for my taste these could compete with a few offerings up to $200 a pair.
 on the other hand most $200 per pair speakers sound better to me.
 i'd say they hold there own with just about anything under $100 per pair.
 remember, these are only $35 on sale.

 music_man_

 

Thanks for your input. I was really decided whether or not I should just purchase these, or save for the Paradigm Titans I've been eying. I think I'll go for the Titans.


----------



## uraflit

sorry for the stupid question... but if i bought these speakers i would need a receiver would i not? what would be something cheap to bundle with these speakers?

 these sound like the entry bookshelf speakers that im looking for to replace crappy pc speakers


----------



## uzziah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nasir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to connect a T-amp to these, what cables would I need?_

 

speaker wire


----------



## uzziah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am sorry. i didn't mean to offend anyone.

 i was making that statement in the general theme of this forum. i understand the perspective of the reality of many peoples saleries. on the other hand when you see many of our forum members repeatedly purchasing multi thousand dollar items it makes $400 seem rather lean.

 again, that is not my own real opinion. i am just looking at what i see here and elsewhere. i do understand many people are struggling.

 so i retract the statement of "most". let's make that "many"?

 nonetheless, if all you could afford is the the insignias then you would be elated to have them. plenty of people here have said they are just too inexpensive to be any good. i didn't say that! some of you guys did.

 well i think i said it too but i certainly was not the first person to say so.

 music_man_

 


 it's cool; i just hear that a lot it seems, and you can imagine it could be frustrating when your bank account is rather anemic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 no worries


----------



## uzziah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_speaker tastes are highly subjective.

 for my taste these could compete with a few offerings up to $200 a pair.
 on the other hand most $200 per pair speakers sound better to me.
 i'd say they hold there own with just about anything under $100 per pair.
 remember, these are only $35 on sale.

 music_man_

 

my big question is how they compare to polk's that go on sale for $50/pair or so; it seems that the general conclusion would be that these insig's are better than those r15/r150, whatever


----------



## music_man

uzziah, even though those are inexpensive(for polk) they do sound slightly better than the insignias. however. the insignias are built much better. with better components and put out a lot more sound. it's a toss up. i'd go for the insignias,ymmv.

 ingo, fry's does have better speakers than the insignias. at least my local store does. polk lsi7 for instance. they are 30 times the price of the insignias. 
 that is just answering the question of whether fry's carries something better. you did not mention at what price. 

 music_man


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## classicalguy

The more I listen to these insignias, the less I like them. They are harsh and do not sound realistic. They may still be a lot better than anything near their price, but the hype is a bit overstated. They just don't sound that great. They are a big step below my other bookshelf speakers (NHT superzeros, B&W 302, Kef Chorales). For $200 per pair, I think you can get better speakers.


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## Pibborando

Hey guys, I have the Insignia's right now and I like them pretty well (especially for the price), but I'm going to be upgrading soon (new bookshelves).

 I'm looking in the $200 - $300 pricerange (closer to $200 preferably) and the Onix x-ls are at the top of my list. I thought, however, that I might be able to get some more narrowed suggestions by describing the kind of sound I want, compaired to the Insignia sound (as a lot of you have heard them, as well as musch higher end speakers). So here's what I think:

 - The Insignias sound seems pretty "big" to me. I want bookshelves that sound as big or bigger. If it's standard for higher end speakers to sound bigger, then great.

 - The Insignias are a bit harsh to my ears. Voices sound a bit "rough around the edges" and I want speakers that are very smooth and have a lot of clarity.

 - The low end on the Insignias is a bit boomy. I want speakers that feel more "solid" down there (hmm... that sounds bad out of context). But low end extention is good!

 - The Insignias are a tad dark to my ears. High frequencies are a bit recessed and dont come through as much as I would prefer (I've got the ATH-A700, more like that I guess). I would like speakers that are a bit brighter. But not harsh... you know?

 Well, that's about it. If the x-ls satisfy those conditions, then I will be very very happy. If not, what bookshelves do?


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## 1967cutlass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For $200 per pair, I think you can get better speakers._

 

I'm sorry but what's the point of even saying that? The insignias are $50 or less, big surprise if you can find better sounding ones for 4x the price.


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## Ingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry but what's the point of even saying that? The insignias are $50 or less, big surprise if you can find better sounding ones for 4x the price._

 

Yep.

 I don't have $200+ to spend on speakers that aren't going to sound good unless you have money sunk into nice $$$ speaker amps that are sourced by a nice $$$ source. 

 I would rather spend $$$$ on building an exceptional headphone rig. Someday when I'm made of money I might embark down the path of high-fidelity speaker rigs. The Insignias sound more than good enough for right now. If I want to listen critically, I just throw on the headphones.


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *1967cutlass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry but what's the point of even saying that? The insignias are $50 or less, big surprise if you can find better sounding ones for 4x the price._

 

I think what the classicalguy meant was that many people in various forums online have claimed these to be "giant killers", when in actuality they aren't. 

 In a way, I feel the same. The Insignias offer excellent performance for the price but to claim that they sound better than speakers in the $150-300 range is pushing it. Just imho of course.


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## classicalguy

Re my comment about Insignias not sounding as good as $200/pair speakers:

 "I'm sorry but what's the point of even saying that? The insignias are $50 or less, big surprise if you can find better sounding ones for 4x the price."

 I was responding to the posts directly above mine comparing the Insignias to $200/pair speakers. The Insignias may be the best speakers in the $50 price range (not much competition), but IMO they are pretty flawed and do not compare favorably with $200 per pair speakers (contrary to what some people here have asserted). If people here had not made the assertion that they compare favorably with $200 per pair speakers, then there would be no need for my comment. But if people are going to claim that the speakers compete in a higher price class, then my comment is relevant, don't you think? Otherwise, someone who is thinking of buying speakers in the $200/pair price class may be misled into buying the less expensive Insignias instead.

 I wish I had more positive things to say about these Insignia speakers because this hobby needs some quality inexpensive speakers. I realize that not everyone has $200+ to spend on speakers. The example of the Koss KSC-75 headphones is a good one. That is a no-compromise product - it really sounds great and costs very little. Sure, there are better cost-no-object headphones, but the Koss phones sound realistic and pleasurable, and are as comfortable as any headphone I've used. I can recommend the Koss phones without hesitation to anyone. I like the sound of them better than my far more expensive Shure E2-c phones, and find them quite comparable to my Grado SR-60s. Both of these headphones are 4x the price or more. So, IMO, the Koss phones really do compete favorably in a higher price class, and involve no significant sonic compromises. I can't say the same for my Insignias. They sound flawed and I find them fatiguing to listen to. I wish it were otherwise.

 "I don't have $200+ to spend on speakers that aren't going to sound good unless you have money sunk into nice $$$ speaker amps that are sourced by a nice $$$ source."

 I don't agree with this. Good bookshelf speakers sound great with a T-Amp (under $50), and you don't need a big $$ source for speakers any more than you need a big $$ source for headphones. In fact, headphones are generally more revealing of source flaws than speakers because they are so close to your ears. I much prefer to listen to music on speakers, however, because they image well and therefore sound more natural to me. Also, I find all headphones somewhat uncomfortable. For years I almost never used headphones. Recently, I have gotten a lot of pleasure out of my small mp3 player and Koss KSC-75 headphones when going for a walk. But it doesn't change my preference for serious listening through speakers. Ironically, I have some very good headphones (Sennheiser 580s) that I almost never listen to because they aren't good for travelling (bulky), and I don't enjoy them as much as speakers. Also, long term use of headphones, especially at high volumes, is not great for your hearing. 

 I guess I agree that if you only have $100 to spend on a sound system, you'd be better off with headphones than trying to build a speaker-based system. But to me headphones are not a fulfilling substitute for a speaker-based stereo system. They both have their place.

 While I'm here, I'm going to give my thoughts (no doubt controversial) about speaker wire and connectors. I have been using bare wire lately because it makes by far the best connection between the amplifier and the speakers. Solder, pins, spades and bananas do not improve the connection. Solder may prevent the copper from oxidizing, although it would have to be a very complete coverage of solder to do that. For the best connection, I would think that re-stripping the ends every year or two to eliminate the oxidation would be better than soldering. Spades and bananas are convenient, and would be worthwhile for convenience if you are swapping equipment often, but they will not make a better connection. I have had trouble with bananas not fitting right in some equipment, and in fact once shorted my amplifier when the bananas popped out (I only lost a couple of fuses, fortunately). So there is nothing wrong with just stripping the ends of the wire and sticking it in the hole in the speaker terminals (or looping around the post if it won't fit in the hole) and tightening. In fact, it may be the cleanest and best possible connection. 

 Also, I would stay far away from the thin 18-20 gauge wire that you get free or very cheaply from a stereo store, and from lamp cord. That stuff is junk. I would use 12 or 14 gauge copper wire. I really like Belden 5000ue (12 gauge) or 5100 ue (14 gauge) wire. The strands are a bit thicker than the clear-plastic coated stuff you normally see, and it has some dialectic material in it for channel separation, and the two cables are braided which I understand is better for interference prevention. It's really easy to strip cleanly, and it's cheap. I bought it from this place (I have no affiliation, and there are many other sellers, but they were prompt with my order):

http://www.bswusa.com/searchresult.a...archValue=wire

 For interconnects, I would again avoid those thin cheap things that they throw in for free with your equipment. I've had the stuff short out too many times, and I believe they seriously impair the signal. I've been satisfied with all of the well-made interconnects I've used, including the better radio shack "gold" cables, parts express's "dayton" cables, Acoustic Research "gold" cables, and the somewhat more-expensive Audioquest cables. I personally have not noticed a sufficient difference between any of these well-made cables to justify a significantly different price. So in my book, any well-made audio cable should be sufficient. I do not mean to suggest that all of the people around here spending big-bucks on cables are wrong, just that for us budget-minded types any properly made cable should be adequate. Whatever the merits of the big-buck cables, the price performance return diminishes rapidly.


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## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *classicalguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While I'm here, I'm going to give my thoughts (no doubt controversial) about speaker wire and connectors. I have been using bare wire lately because it makes by far the best connection between the amplifier and the speakers. Solder, pins, spades and bananas do not improve the connection. Solder may prevent the copper from oxidizing, although it would have to be a very complete coverage of solder to do that. For the best connection, I would think that re-stripping the ends every year or two to eliminate the oxidation would be better than soldering. Spades and bananas are convenient, and would be worthwhile for convenience if you are swapping equipment often, but they will not make a better connection. I have had trouble with bananas not fitting right in some equipment, and in fact once shorted my amplifier when the bananas popped out (I only lost a couple of fuses, fortunately). So there is nothing wrong with just stripping the ends of the wire and sticking it in the hole in the speaker terminals (or looping around the post if it won't fit in the hole) and tightening. In fact, it may be the cleanest and best possible connection. 

 Also, I would stay far away from the thin 18-20 gauge wire that you get free or very cheaply from a stereo store, and from lamp cord. That stuff is junk. I would use 12 or 14 gauge copper wire. I really like Belden 5000ue (12 gauge) or 5100 ue (14 gauge) wire. The strands are a bit thicker than the clear-plastic coated stuff you normally see, and it has some dialectic material in it for channel separation, and the two cables are braided which I understand is better for interference prevention. It's really easy to strip cleanly, and it's cheap. I bought it from this place (I have no affiliation, and there are many other sellers, but they were prompt with my order)_

 

Yea I agree I like to use the wire bare, the only place I can't do that is the spring clips on my POS Sony receiver, the openings are to small for 12 gauge wire. I purchased some of that Belden 5000UE for my Klipsch center channel about a month or so ago and I thought about replacing my 11 year old original monster cable run to the Insigna's but I'll probably just keep it till I get more expensive front speakers. The Belden is a little harder to work with then normal speaker wire but worth it. It has an outer jacket that has to be stripped away, there is a white nylon "rip cord" but that didn't work to well for me, I just used my straight blade and sliced up the jacket about 6" careful not to nick inside wire.

 You can get the Belden 5000UE for pretty cheap by the foot from Bluejeans Cable I got my center channel run for .40 cents a foot.


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## hyamaiata

Does anyone knows the measurements (''real'' measurements, not sound measurements) in inches of these speakers (depth, height and width)?

 Thanks.


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## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone knows the measurements (''real'' measurements, not sound measurements) in inches of these speakers (depth, height and width)?

 Thanks._

 

I just measured mine they measure
 13.5" Tall
 9" Wide (at the widest part)
 12" Deep


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## xluben

...


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## Nasir

Is there a 6 speaker setup out there that would beat buying three pairs of the Insignias at the same price range? I'm guessing not. Would sticking with a two speaker set up sound better? These will be almost solely used for music.

 Will any 6.1 receiver work with my plan?


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## phergus_25

if its just for music then look into just a 2 ch setup and use the money for better speakers.
 IMO
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nasir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a 6 speaker setup out there that would beat buying three pairs of the Insignias at the same price range? I'm guessing not. Would sticking with a two speaker set up sound better? These will be almost solely used for music.

 Will any 6.1 receiver work with my plan?_


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## Nasir

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if its just for music then look into just a 2 ch setup and use the money for better speakers.
 IMO_

 

I should have stated, I will also be watching movies, possibly 2% of the time. Does that change the consideration?

 If not, better two channel setup it is.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nasir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should have stated, I will also be watching movies, possibly 2% of the time. Does that change the consideration?

 If not, better two channel setup it is._

 

I watch movies 30-40% of the time, and I'd still prefer a great 2-channel setup over a simply decent 5 or 6-channel setup. You'll also have fewer variables for positioning your speakers to get them in the best location.


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## Nasir

Thanks for the info. Are there any speakers under $200 that will definitely sound better than the Insignias? They'll probably be amped with a Sonic Impact T-amp.

 For over $200, is the difference going to be worth the extra money? I see the AV123 x-ls has been recommended a few times in this thread, but is it a huge improvement over the Insignias? EDIT: I also see the Infinity Primus 150 is recommended a few times. I could get a pair for around $120 before shipping. Will they sound, say, more refined than the Insignias?


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## skullguise

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nasir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info. Are there any speakers under $200 that will definitely sound better than the Insignias? They'll probably be amped with a Sonic Impact T-amp.

 For over $200, is the difference going to be worth the extra money? I see the AV123 x-ls has been recommended a few times in this thread, but is it a huge improvement over the Insignias? EDIT: I also see the Infinity Primus 150 is recommended a few times. I could get a pair for around $120 before shipping. Will they sound, say, more refined than the Insignias?_

 

The X-LS's sound better. I had a brief chance to hear a pair, even not broken in, and they sounded terrific for $200. I used to own the Insignia's, and they were also great, even incredible for the $35 I spent when they were on sale. But even though the two speakers were not in the same system, it was clear that the X-LS had the advantage, in many areas top to botom. You can try the AV123.COM web site, and dig through their forums for better opinions.

 Another option, if you can find it used, would be a Sound Dyanamics RTS-3 bookshelf. My pair just found new life driven by a 50-watt Gainclone amp; they sound a heck of a lot better than they should; The Absolute sound was right in their praise of these.... But they're tougher to find sicne they're discontinued. Parts are still available (I replaced tweeters recently since my son had pushed the domes in some time ago).


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## sbulack

I've been using a pair of the Best Buy Insignias since very soon after this thread started. I'd been using some OFC 16 gauge speaker wire that I bought from an Ebay seller. Recently, I bought two 15 foot lengths of the 12 gauge Belden speaker cable from BlueJeansCable. I've had the BlueJeans Belden speaker cable in place for over a week now, and it really has brought out a fuller, more enjoyable sound from the Insignias - a really good use of the $17 the Belden cables cost me.


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## SayNoToPistons

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skullguise* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The X-LS's sound better. I had a brief chance to hear a pair, even not broken in, and they sounded terrific for $200. I used to own the Insignia's, and they were also great, even incredible for the $35 I spent when they were on sale. But even though the two speakers were not in the same system, it was clear that the X-LS had the advantage, in many areas top to botom. You can try the AV123.COM web site, and dig through their forums for better opinions.

 Another option, if you can find it used, would be a Sound Dyanamics RTS-3 bookshelf. My pair just found new life driven by a 50-watt Gainclone amp; they sound a heck of a lot better than they should; The Absolute sound was right in their praise of these.... But they're tougher to find sicne they're discontinued. Parts are still available (I replaced tweeters recently since my son had pushed the domes in some time ago)._

 

Do you mind going into details when comparing between the X-LS and the Insignia's? I am thinking of getting some Insignia's for my basement and some X-LS for my main set up.


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## SayNoToPistons

Sorry to rain on your parade, guys. But i rather take these fro $100... Spend a little more and be much happier.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773485

 I am now debating whether i should return my Insignias or not since i paid 55 bucks for them...


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## Azure

Hmm...now I feel like upgrading


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## SayNoToPistons

You're not on my boat then =/ . I've listened to good amounts of nice speakers like pricey Cantons (my uncle's with added super tweeters), B&Ws, Celestions, Tannoys, etc. And after listening to those, it just seems that these are extremely "crappy" speakers. I know i can't compare the Insignias against them (since it's like comparing a Hyundai to Ferrari's and Bugatti's) but it's just in my mind and i'm paranoid... "Bah, the bass sounds boomy" "Bah the mids are muddy" "bah whats with the highs?!"....


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## bhd812

I still am using mine also, I played with these things in a few different rooms and in a few different style setups also.
 The sound great esp for the cost but there is a major probelm I have been happening lately with them...

 I had them setup at the foot of my bed and on three different times I fell asleep listening to them

 I also had them in my living room and fell asleep twice listening to them again.

 and I recently I had them in another part of the basement and fell asleep again listening to them.

 thats atleast 6 different times I fell asleep listening to these..not sure why but I guess you can call them relaxing...or boring.


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## nineohtoo

Sup guys. I'm looking to get a bookshelf system for my room for when I've got people in the room and I can't use headphones to watch stuff/listen to mp3s on my computer, CDs and from my 360. I'm most likely going to use a t-amp.

 I can get these for $40 for the pair right now at Best Buy, or I can get the Polk M10s used for $70 for a pair, that retail on CC's site for $140 a pair. I don't mind paying the extra $30 bucks if I'll notice a difference in quality though. Thanks.


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## music_man

i really use them now for professional mixing. to see what it might sound like on an average consumers system. my bookshelf speakers are micro utopia be and are smaller than these but weigh much more. there is no comparisen. i'd rather hope not. for $30 they rock. you cannot compare them to $5,500 speakers even if they are the same size. i used to think tiny speakers were highly limited no matter what, but there really is a huge difference. even at $300 these could be blown away. polk for instance.

 edit: i think this, which i typed a few hours ago was stupid in retrospect. the newyears beverages were still in me. please excuse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 music_man


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## That dude

I am wondering if I can get these babies down to singapore? I think bestbuy don't do international shipping right?

 I was hoping someone could find an alternative, or help me ship them here via the cheapest shipping service...


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## nikongod

i jsut got a pair on the bestbuy 3 day new years sale. bestbuy is klind of dum (lacks b to emphasize stupidity) in that one store would not honor the web price, and another would. crazyness.

 anyways, they are pretty spiffy. i have only played them for about an hour off of my diy tube amp, but they are shaping up nicely. 

 im too "wowed" by the "hey its not in my head" efect of speakers to compare them to anything.


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## SayNoToPistons

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *That dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am wondering if I can get these babies down to singapore? I think bestbuy don't do international shipping right?

 I was hoping someone could find an alternative, or help me ship them here via the cheapest shipping service... _

 

Hahhaa... You're better off spending a little more in your local area and get better sounding speakers for not much more than what you'll be spending for the Insignias and shipping.


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## music_man

one thing about these speakers is they look very expensive.
 i seem to think they used more than $30 of materials building them.
 hard to understand really.

 besides the stupid comment i made earlier to be realistic i did mention polk in that comment. entry polks or infinitys etc. are better imho. they don't look as good or seem to be built as well but they sound better. gofigure.

 music_man


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## skullguise

I'm sorry I'm just replying now to an earlier question about X-LS's versus the Insignia's. To be fair, it was at different times and systems in which I heard each. But it seemed clear to me that the X-LS wins in transparency, bass depth and quality, treble extension and detail (without harshness), and image focus within the soundstage.

 Where I THINK the Insignia's would win is in the total soundstage size - width and depth. In my system, overkilled with Rega Apollo CD and Belles 250i integrated amp, they shone quite nicely for soundstage, making it almost eerie in size and sonic landscaping. However, the individual instruments and voices within the soundstage sometimes seemed a little loose and "fuzzy" at times (hence my thought that the X-LS's had better focus).

 I've heard a few other relatively cheap speakers that - for not TOO much more money, and competitive with the AR's mentoined - would be pretty good. Getting a deal on an Athena AS-B1 or AS-B2 (series 1, or maybe even series 2) is a possibility. I also own a pair of Sound Dynamic RTS-3's that do some fairly amazing things with a good front end.

 But thanks to all for keeping the information flowing, on the Insignia's and other inexpensive bargains.


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## ferraro25

Got these speakers on Friday because I had a total of $40 worth of Best Buy gift cards. Wasn't expecting much; had these speakers somewhere in the back of my mind since I discovered them through this forum, but never really felt the need to buy them since I essentially have no use for speakers. Before I get into my thoughts I must state that: 1. I have virtually nil experience with good speakers; and 2. My receiver is a total POS.

 I would say that they sound almost as good as my KSC-35s but with crappy room acoustics, spiky treble, and _slightly_ lower quality bass with less extension (obviously).

 Maybe I'll eventually get a cheap, yet decent 100 watt or so receiver and perhaps a sub woofer. This whole "dealing with room acoustics" and "optimal positioning" extra effort stuff is something I hate about speakers, though, so I dunno if I'll spend any money on making these speakers sound better.

 Makes me appreciate my K701 that much more, though.


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## epithetless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpelg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered a pair of 24" Sanus speaker stands from Kmart's website for $30. Not ultra-cheap, but less expensive than similiar alternatives from BB, CC, etc. as you mentioned. I guess if you want to really go bargain-basement, pick up four cement cinderblocks. I wanted something a little nicer._

 

To those who purchased the Sanus BF24B stands from K-mart: are they sold individually or as a pair for that $30 pricetag?


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## flecom

as an x-mas gift for my dad i put together an HT system with these... picked up 2 pairs and best buy and a yamaha reciever they had at bb on sale for $150 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1134703786117) and a JBL center (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085816196)

 so all in all it was under $500

 i made all the RCA>RCA interconnects using canare cable and canare RCA connectors... the digital coax connectors and video (component/comp) were all canare 75 ohm coax with canare crimp-on 75 ohm rca's...

 after i put it all together i was really impressed, i put in a cd with the "5 channel stereo" mode and wow! it sounded really nice... im not gonna toss my headphones or anything, but for less than $500 i feel it sounded excellent... couldent be happier with these speakers


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## jpelg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *epithetless* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To those who purchased the Sanus BF24B stands from K-mart: are they sold individually or as a pair for that $30 pricetag?_

 

Pair (good question though).


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## soundboy

Came across this particular mod of the Insignia speaker over at the Polk Audio Forum. Figure some of you Insignia owners may be interested....

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47221


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## ooheadsoo

That would be great if we only knew how he acquired that crossover.


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## music_man

i guess the hype has not gone unoticed by the best buy bean counters.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085354138

 check the "sale" price. oops.

 music_man


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## c0mfortably_numb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i guess the hype has not gone unoticed by the best buy bean counters.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085354138

 check the "sale" price. oops.

 music_man_

 

Ouch, there goes my cheap speaker recommendation. At $80 I say save your money up for something else.


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## mektarus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *c0mfortably_numb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch, there goes my cheap speaker recommendation. At $80 I say save your money up for something else._

 

I know it's not nearly as good a deal but are these not worth even $72 a pair?


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## uraflit

^i'm sure they are still good speakers for $80 a pair, but i too will wait for the price to drop below (at least <$50) before i buy them! pairing them up with a t-amp would be nice too.


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## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uraflit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^i'm sure they are still good speakers for $80 a pair, but i too will wait for the price to drop below (at least <$50) before i buy them! pairing them up with a t-amp would be nice too._

 

It has been suggested that the parts used to make these speakers might cost more than $35 for the pair. In fact, I just found out recently (from a friend of mine who's an employee at Best Buy) that the invoice BB paid for these speakers are actually slightly less than $30 (BB employees can purchase them for $31 a pair, that's 105% invoice). So, yes, even at $35 BB was making a healthy margin (~20%) on these speakers. Moral of the story? Hold out for a price drop!


----------

