# (speaker cable) Bi-wire vs Jumpers



## Lenni

I'm sure the question has been asked before, but could not find it.
  by bi-wire I mean a single wire terminated by four connectors at the speakers end and two at the amps end.
  if you had to choose, regardless of cost, which would you prefer, or which do you think would be more optimal in terms of signals reaching the speaker.
   
  is there a difference? what are your thoughts on this?


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lenni said:


> I'm sure the question has been asked before, but could not find it.
> by bi-wire I mean a single wire terminated by four connectors at the speakers end and two at the amps end.
> if you had to choose, regardless of cost, which would you prefer, or which do you think would be more optimal in terms of signals reaching the speaker.
> 
> is there a difference? what are your thoughts on this?


 
  The websites AVSforum and AVforum might be better at answering this question.
   
  I think the question your asking about is for a normal hook up and not really a "bi-wired" connection.
  I'm assuming your taking about is for the speaker connection is splitting the red wire into two ends and the black wire into two end
  Speakers that come with 4 posts for bi-wiring usually have two metal strips connecting the two red post together and the two black posts together.
  Might be easier just to put the strips back in place instead of trying to split wires.
  That's if I'm following your question correctly.


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## Lenni

thanks for the tips. I'll have to register with those forums.
   
  you got it. a single wire gets split into two at the speaker end.
   
   
 
   
  in the case of Crystal Cable "splitters" are used to change terminations, so one would only need a set of those and not the entire cable.
  don't know if there are advantages/disadvantages in splitting the cable in two vs using jumpers.
  subjective and objective views welcome.


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## Chris J

I've tried both ways and I prefer a good quality jumper over bi-wiring or over the metal straps that come with your speakers.
To me, bi-wiring has a strange, phasey sound to it.


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## obobskivich

The 2-to-4 cable thing is not true bi-wiring; it looks silly to be honest.  The issue is that you probably just have a single lead up until the "split" - so any additional current carrying capacity is fantasy. In other words, if I take 16AWG, and run 100' of it out, and then add 6" of 13AWG to the end, it doesn't do me any good (if my load will exceed what the 16AWG can do that is). If they've got heavier wire from the amp side to the terminals, I'd rather see four taps for the amplifier or heavier lugs (I understand that hooking up four bananas is impossible on some amps, but you could certainly stack two lugs). 

Personally I like jumpers or actual bi-wiring, but none of the "half way" solutions - cable straps, 2-to-4, etc because jumpers are usually included with the speakers and won't catch on anything like a strap can, and actual bi-wiring at least gets you to wherever the box claims it should get you (I personally think bi-wiring is a waste of time though). In terms of signals reaching the speaker, two pairs of 16AWG will not beat a single 12AWG lead, and I'd rather have one lead than two. Length also has to be taken as a factor. 

If cost was truly no object though, active multi-amplification.


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## Lenni

thanks all for the input, much appreciated. it just reinforces my own opinion on bi-wiring this way. it seems sort of cheating. when I bought the Heimdall's I had the choice of single or bi-wire termination, as they cost the same, and I chose single because I didn't like the idea of splitting one cable into two. I was getting a pair of Diamond Piccolo's and the question about bi-wire arose again, so I thought I might ask for opinions on it.
   
  unfortunately, when it comes to audio - half way solutions, or cutting corners just doesn't work, imo,  no matter how it's cut.
   
  if I was to get a pair of speaker cables for each speaker post I would probably have to get a separate amp for each one too, so I think I'll stick with jumpers for the time being.


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## obobskivich

lenni said:


> thanks all for the input, much appreciated. it just reinforces my own opinion on bi-wiring this way. it seems sort of cheating. when I bought the Heimdall's I had the choice of single or bi-wire termination, as they cost the same, and I chose single because I didn't like the idea of splitting one cable into two. I was getting a pair of Diamond Piccolo's and the question about bi-wire arose again, so I thought I might ask for opinions on it.
> 
> unfortunately, when it comes to audio - half way solutions, or cutting corners just doesn't work, imo,  no matter how it's cut.
> 
> if I was to get a pair of speaker cables for each speaker post I would probably have to get a separate amp for each one too, so I think I'll stick with jumpers for the time being.




The separate amp thing is a waste of money if you aren't employing a new crossover. Generally only salesman will disagree.


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## Chris J

lenni said:


> thanks all for the input, much appreciated. it just reinforces my own opinion on bi-wiring this way. it seems sort of cheating. when I bought the Heimdall's I had the choice of single or bi-wire termination, as they cost the same, and I chose single because I didn't like the idea of splitting one cable into two. I was getting a pair of Diamond Piccolo's and the question about bi-wire arose again, so I thought I might ask for opinions on it.
> 
> unfortunately, when it comes to audio - half way solutions, or cutting corners just doesn't work, imo,  no matter how it's cut.
> 
> if I was to get a pair of speaker cables for each speaker post I would probably have to get a separate amp for each one too, so I think I'll stick with jumpers for the time being.




I treid Red Dawns with bi-wiring and jumpers, I preferred the sound of jumpers.


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## Lenni

Chris J, what's your experience with Nordost cables?
   
  my experience with Nordost has not been very good. I liked the cable for some things, but disliked it for others. when I wired my system with it the first thing I noticed was the increase in dynamics - it was striking, and really nice. however, after a while I started to notice a major roll-off in the bass. I guess with full-size speakers this roll-off might be less noticeable - but with small speakers were the bass is not as huge, nevertheless, well defined, tuneful, extended, any roll-off is easily noticed. basically it ruined the bass definition. also there was an element of fatigue that I didn't feel before. I knew that this was not a cable I could live with. Nordost - never again.
   
  having said that, I'm using on an old Chord copper speaker cable atm, and I miss the dynamic, clarity, and overall sound the Nordost offered over the Chord. but the sound it's slightly warmer, and the bass is fuller. I hope the Diamond Piccolo will be a more balanced cable than the Nordost, with the same clarity and dynamics. fingers cross.


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## Chris J

lenni said:


> Chris J, what's your experience with Nordost cables?
> 
> my experience with Nordost has not been very good. I liked the cable for some things, but disliked it for others. when I wired my system with it the first thing I noticed was the increase in dynamics - it was striking, and really nice. however, after a while I started to notice a major roll-off in the bass. I guess with full-size speakers this roll-off might be less noticeable - but with small speakers were the bass is not as huge, nevertheless, well defined, tuneful, extended, any roll-off is easily noticed. basically it ruined the bass definition. also there was an element of fatigue that I didn't feel before. I knew that this was not a cable I could live with. Nordost - never again.
> 
> having said that, I'm using on an old Chord copper speaker cable atm, and I miss the dynamic, clarity, and overall sound the Nordost offered over the Chord. but the sound it's slightly warmer, and the bass is fuller. I hope the Diamond Piccolo will be a more balanced cable than the Nordost, with the same clarity and dynamics. fingers cross.




Lenni,
I'm a big fan of the Nordost cables.
I like the dynamics and detail and articulation I hear from them.
I have a mix of new Leif Red Dawn speaker cables and 5 year old series interconnects such as Baldur and Heimdahl.
I've owned and tried a few Cardas cables, I thought the cheaper ones were a bit too fulsome and syrupy for me. The Cardas reference was quite good but I thought it had a very slight bluntness to the attack.
Basically I like the Nordost dynamics, life and snap. Not too sure if this is a sound effect or if it just exposes the transients inherent to a good recording. I did try some older Blue Heaven speaker cable and I did find that it did something to "lighten" the bass which I didn't like. This the same cable I used in a bi-wire mode...... I thought bi-wiring had this weird phasy midrange sound to it. I preferred jumpers, they sounded more natural.
I also had some Kimber 8TC speaker cable for a few years, while they sounded very good, they sounded muddy compared to the Red Dawn Lief speaker cables.
I suspect I must be some kind of treble head or something.............I prefer a very clear midrange and a nice sense of space plus great dynamics over all else.
Supposedly the newer Nordost, like the Lief series are less zippy and are warmer than the older series Nordost. Like I said earlier, I found the older Blue Heaven speaker cables to be somewhat bass light or bass shy.

Just for the record, I haven't tried any Nordost Power Cables.
One reviewer said the Nordost power cables can add that missing bass.

Cables are weird, they really shouldn't have a sound! But they do anyway.

Chris


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## El_Doug

NOTHING CHANGES, period.  If you do a true bi-wire with 2 sets of wires, you will have the same effect as increasing the wire gauge of a single wire.  Having more connectors soldered onto the same gauge wire doesn't change anything meaningful at all


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## Chris J

el_doug said:


> NOTHING CHANGES, period.  If you do a true bi-wire with 2 sets of wires, you will have the same effect as increasing the wire gauge of a single wire.  Having more connectors soldered onto the same gauge wire doesn't change anything meaningful at all




http://www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html


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## Lenni

the Piccolo's arrived today. it was sent from Oregon, US, with DHL International (3/5 days) on Monday - that's pretty good considering it's go through customs and all.
   
  I took some photos in case someone was interested:
   
   
  
   
  
   
  I'm very, very pleased with the Diamond Piccolo's. this is as far as I can go with cables. it took a few tries but we got there in the end. I have no reason try any other cable.
   
  @Chris - I'm not that comfortable recommending cables, especially expensive ones, but if you ever get the chance to try the Diamond Piccolo's, I'd thoroughly recommend it.
   
  peace.


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## Chris J

Quote: 





lenni said:


> the Piccolo's arrived today. it was sent from Oregon, US, with DHL International (3/5 days) on Monday - that's pretty good considering it's go through customs and all.
> 
> I took some photos in case someone was interested:
> 
> ...


 
   
  recommending expensive cables...............I know what you mean!
  You really have to try them yourself!
   
  Let me know how the Cables work out for you!  PM me if you wish!
  Chris


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## joseph69

Quote: 





lenni said:


> the Piccolo's arrived today. it was sent from Oregon, US, with DHL International (3/5 days) on Monday - that's pretty good considering it's go through customs and all.
> 
> I took some photos in case someone was interested:
> 
> ...


 
  I verticaly bi-amped my vandersteen's with two identical (stereo amps), what a difference in sound, much more richer, fuller, sound, so each speaker now has it's own amplifier, well worth it. Nice cable's good luck!


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## Earbones

obobskivich said:


> The 2-to-4 cable thing is not true bi-wiring; it looks silly to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, 2-to-4 is true bi-wiring... You're thinking of either bi-amping or paired cables. Not to say it doesn't look silly, though.
  
 In my experience most people experience slightly better sound bi-wiring their speakers. This is not because bi-wiring has any sonic advantages, however... It's because modern higher-quality speakers generally have four terminals and come equipped with cheap brass or steel jumper tabs. Replacing those with any configuration of copper is going to clean things up a little. Bear in mind, when I say a little, I mean a _little_. None of these changes are much beyond negligible, but when you get into the world of speaker cables, that's the bar. People pay as much as $40,000 for ultra exotic high-end cables, just to see negligible differences. 
  
 At any rate, replacing the generally poor stock jumpers on your speakers with nice copper jumpers and single cables will give you the same benefits as bi-wiring.
  
 If you want to get _really_ negligible, then you can argue that fewer connections equals a purer connection, and therefore a better sound. In as much, bi-wiring which is four connections at the speaker would be "purer" than jumpers and single cable, which would be six. This argument makes sense to some. Most electrical engineers will tell you it's a bit like running 10 gauge wire for a three foot run. Technically it's better, but human ears are incapable of hearing the difference between that and 18 gauge for such a short distance. 
  
 Long story short, price things out. Just because bi-wiring isn't any better than single cables with aftermarket jumpers doesn't mean it's any worse. If you're looking at the same money for a set of bi-wire cables as for a pair of singles and some jumpers, then why not? Four less connections to fuss with in a two speaker set-up...


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## goodvibes

The idea of biwiring is to star the drivers/crossover back to the amplifier terminals so that back emf or reactance of the woofer doesn't effect the the other ranges. Similar to the benefits of star grounding. It's not a bad idea but very hit and miss in practice. More often than not, any perceived benefit comes from the fact that you've replaced the crappy jumpers. It can also sound less together as ChrisJ mentioned though in theory, there's no good reason for it. Try stripping a single wire setup back far enough to replace the jumper with the woofer terminals closes to the amp. Through the woofer terminal up to the others.


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## cel4145

earbones said:


> In my experience most people experience slightly better sound bi-wiring their speakers. This is not because bi-wiring has any sonic advantages, however... It's because modern higher-quality speakers generally have four terminals and come equipped with cheap brass or steel jumper tabs. Replacing those with any configuration of copper is going to clean things up a little. Bear in mind, when I say a little, I mean a _little_. None of these changes are much beyond negligible, but when you get into the world of speaker cables, that's the bar. People pay as much as $40,000 for ultra exotic high-end cables, just to see negligible differences.
> 
> At any rate, replacing the generally poor stock jumpers on your speakers with nice copper jumpers and single cables will give you the same benefits as bi-wiring.




This is the first time I've seen someone offer a reasonable explanation of why biwiring might make an SQ difference, and of course your solution doesn't even require biwiring. Thanks!!!


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