# Asus Essence One Headphone Amp/DAC (CeBIT 2011)



## g-san

Quote: 





> Asus Essence One audiophile amp  CeBIT 2011
> 
> Following the huge interest in KitGurus recent stories about top end headphone and streaming media devices, we couldnt help smiling when we noticed the gorgeous Essence One on the Asus stand at CeBIT 2011. KitGuru dons dark glasses and approaches with pitch-perfect ears set to maximum definition.


 
   
  Read over here:
   
http://www.kitguru.net/components/soundcard/jules/asus-essence-one-audiophile-amp-cebit-2011/


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## audionewbieyao

hum.. looks interesting, is it a USB DAC plus headphone AMP?
  Digital hi-fi market is really getting more and more interested.
   
  Did I see 32bit?


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## Mad Max

Maybe it is another one of those upsampling DACs.  Balanced outputs as well, but a single-ended built-in headamp.  =o


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## audionewbieyao

Balanced output?
I didn't see it on the spec, is there any other report of this babe out there?


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## Mad Max

You know, there's a link in that first post leading to an article for you to read...  =\


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## Arctia

Andy from Overclock.net posted some clearer pictures
   
https://picasaweb.google.com/andersdoggen/CEBIT2011?feat=directlink#5580172125943160402
   
https://picasaweb.google.com/andersdoggen/CEBIT2011?feat=directlink#5580172133367338930


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## g-san

Looks like an external Dac/Amp combo with USB, Coax and Optical inputs.
   
  Also has Headphone, Balanced (XLR)  and Unbalanced outputs.
   
  This is closely reminiscent of my Yulong D100... can't wait for reviews!


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## Mad Max

LME49600TS-based amp?  =\


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## g-san

Sorry for asking, but thats a bad thing ( I really don't know )?


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## Culverin

Same here.
   
  Is that some sort of cheap component or something?


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## balderon

One couldn't help but laughing when reading the marketing hipe "dedicated power adapter to ensure only the *purest of volts* are allowed in". Can anyone define what is meant by a "volt that is pure"?


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## Mad Max

A volt that doesn't include I-forgot-what which dirties it?
   
  It's going to be a crap wallwart anyway.  Would be good to replace it with a Sigma11 PSU or something.


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## kn19h7

Just wonder if this included Dolby technologies as usual Asus product..
  While an opamp-based amp isn't really something special, an external dac with Dolby Headphone that offers quality output would be another story to me


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## imadome

I am very very interested.


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## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





kn19h7 said:


> Just wonder if this included Dolby technologies as usual Asus product..
> While an opamp-based amp isn't really something special, an external dac with Dolby Headphone that offers quality output would be another story to me


 

 That would seriously be a winning combo if it supported that. I doubt it though but one can always hope.


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## genclaymore

I wonder went it expected to be out. More importantly I cant wait for reviewers to get their hands on this.


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## kite7

Quote: 





culverin said:


> Same here.
> 
> Is that some sort of cheap component or something?


 
   
  It is, a lot of decent opamps are cheap ranging from $2 to $10; only the more expensive ones include AD797 OPA627/637 which are about $20-40 a piece and then there's discrete JBT modules as well. A single component does not break a system, the implementation matters a lot. Also you have to consider that a lot of people cannot tell a difference in the opamp they are listening to unsighted, goes to show how small the differences are. Sure, specs are great and all but that is how it measures by itself and not in a system. A large proportion of this hobby goes by sound, and not measurements. Sometimes you cannot simply dismiss something just by its specification on paper because they may only contribute to a small difference that is inaudible even though measurements show something that not even human ear will agree on. In my book as long as it's just not a trash opamp that is not even audio qualified ,it's good enough. You don't need the best opamp in the world unless you're some specification elitist. If it brings some self satisfaction then go ahead, buy the most expensive opamp and be content but if you don't have any experience with some opamps then you don't really need to concern yourself with them.
   
  In short : a lot of good opamps are cheap, only the best ones are expensive.


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## Mad Max

It would have been nicer if the amp section were fully discrete.  Also, I dislike the kind of sound National's opamps generally contribute to.  =\
   
  Opamp price doesn't guarantee better sound.  ADA4627-1B and OPA827 massacre AD797, OPA627, and those overpriced 'discrete' opamps for less money anyway.


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## kite7

Point is yes there are better opamps. Do you absolutely need the best opamp? Not really, they're as controversial as cables IMO. I'd rather not go into detail of greatly exaggerating the minuscule differences between opamps or cables, wait... isn't this what this hobby is about?


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## leeperry

> Originally Posted by *Mad Max* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> LME49600TS-based amp?  =\


 

 It's an headphones driver IC, can't be worse than the $2 ear-shredding TPA6120A2 of the STX.
   


kite7 said:


> a lot of good opamps are cheap, only the best ones are expensive.


 
   
  I don't agree...I love OPA1641, and it's cheap as dirt. It's advertized as being a perfect choice for high end bluray players, fully agreed...fantastic little chip!
   


genclaymore said:


> I can't wait for reviewers to get their hands on this.


 

 The problem w/ Asus audio products is that they're usually tested by computer geeks, who don't know jack about audiophile gear...and indeed, you can bet that the DPS will be a noisy SMPS...and the volume pot a cheapo ALPS.
   
  Plus, all those computer magazines/websites are freebies wh*res, they have to publish good reviews...otherwise, no more free review samples for you


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## earfonia

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I love OPA1641, and it's cheap as dirt. It's advertized as being a perfect choice for high end bluray players, fully agreed...fantastic little chip!


 


  I agree, OPA1641 / OPA1642 is really something... my favorite Op-Amp so far.  Tonal balance and detail are excellent!  After trying a few op-amps for my Dr. DAC2 DX, I finally settle with OPA1642, the best sounding Op-Amp for my Dr. DAC2 DX.  It even de-throne my favorite AD8066, I found OPA1642 is more natural sounding than AD8066.


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## oohms

Quote: 





kite7 said:


> Point is yes there are better opamps. Do you absolutely need the best opamp? Not really, they're as controversial as cables IMO. I'd rather not go into detail of greatly exaggerating the minuscule differences between opamps or cables, wait... isn't this what this hobby is about?


 


  Opamps change the sound quite a lot. Compare LM324 to something like OPA627, and then compare your favourite hookup wire with the nastiest chinese one (or even coathanger wire).


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## Fantoon

I remember you being fond of the essence series 1-2 years ago, I see much has changed 
  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> It's an headphones driver IC, can't be worse than the $2 ear-shredding TPA6120A2 of the STX.
> 
> 
> I don't agree...I love OPA1641, and it's cheap as dirt. It's advertized as being a perfect choice for high end bluray players, fully agreed...fantastic little chip!
> ...


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## WaveRider69

How much more power does this have than the essence?  Just out of curiosity.


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## leeperry

waverider69 said:


> How much more power does this have than the essence?  Just out of curiosity.


 

 I'm not sure what answer you're expecting, but hopefully that 32bit upsampling will allow them to go for 150dB SNR...inflated figures improve sales, or so I heard. 
   


fantoon said:


> I remember you being fond of the essence series 1-2 years ago


 

 This was a major change over my even more crummy M-Audio Audiophile USB, that's for sure...but it's like everything, like the m2tech Hiface....that's been dethroned by better gear(better PSU, better clocking) in the mean time. The STX has too many flaws:
  -24.576Mhz(48kHz*512) clock so 44.1kHz sounds like ****, they kinda fixed it in the ST by adding a 75ps CS2000 reclocker. Hear the ST, and suddenly the STX sounds like a Realtek in comparison.
  -horrid drivers, that do everything wrong...I can't think of more crappy drivers...of course the raving reviews made by self-proclaimed audio gurus forgot to mention this little issue, and several years later their drivers still lack big time: http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
   
_"Personally I don’t know what those monkey coders at Asus and C-Media are doing. Maybe someone should ratio their bananas."_
   
  Asus have a long time history of selling hardware, and never fix their crummy BIOS/drivers. They never bothered fixing all the problems w/ SATA on my P5K Deluxe WiFi mobo...the official board is filled w/ bug reports noone cares about.
   
  -very shrill and harsh $2 headamp IC...using the line-out was a major relief 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -very bassy and upfront signature, prolly nice for hardrock and techno...but for jazz/funk/reggae, it's a no-go.
  -cheapo DIP8 sockets, that provide very poor contact...Asus decided to save a few cents and didn't go w/ machined sockets for some odd reason. My ST even came w/ a completely rusty socket, I had to send it back for RMA.
  -its DSP is spec'ed at 700ps jitter in its datasheet, and that's what it sounds like.
  
  So it's nice if you come from an even more crummy internal soundcard, which would explain all the raving on computer websites...but it doesn't hold a candle to a proper audiophile rig. And it does videogames very poorly, as been thoroughly tested by many ppl: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/asus-xonar-essence-stx_6.html#sect0
   
_"If Dolby Headphone is not enabled, the Xonar Essence *STX* gives you no sense of direction towards the sound at all."_
   
  Hopefully, Asus will learn from their mistakes....but I don't really count on it...they'll make another shrill sounding board, send it to a few computer websites, get raving reviews = done deal


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## WaveRider69

I mean output power.  How do they rate these onboard amps in milliwatts or what?  I viewed the data sheets for each of the IC amps but I don't really understand much of it.  The essence I had could barely push 250ohm headphones on max gain, let alone it would be funny to say they could power 600ohm.  I like that Asus continuing to expand in this area I think it's great because they are bringing more people into the better quality audio world.  I've got an external dac/amp now and love it.  These Asus cards would make the majority of the general population happy though.  So I am curious to see if they smartened up a bit by adding a more powerful chip.


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## Waqar

Does anyone know when this unit have its realse date? And maybe the price estimate too?


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## WaveRider69

if this is 250milliamps then what is the orginal xonar essence?


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## ROBSCIX

Quote:


waverider69 said:


> if this is 250milliamps then what is the orginal xonar essence?


 
  IIRC, 80mW into 600ohm. 
  The spec sheet suggests that at max it could push about 1.5W using +/-12V supplies.
  Power changes based on headphones impedance.


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## WaveRider69

Yeah I got that, sorry for being a bit noobish, but how does that translate mW vs milliamps?
   
  or if you had to put it simply which has more power and by how much %?  lol


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## reiserFS

Interesting, might pick this up and try the balanced outs with my KGSS. If it's not good I'll just send it back. Any news on the release date?


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## WaveRider69

I love how nobody can ever answer that question..


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## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





waverider69 said:


> I love how nobody can ever answer that question..


 

 There is no concrete date yet....  That is basically why you got no answer.


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## omaha

It isn't much, but this is the answer I got from ASUS:
   
_Dear Mr. Dykstra,

 ... I don't have the product release information at this time yet. Normally it will take around 4 - 8 weeks for the newly announced product to be available.

 Thank you,

 Aaron L
 ASUS Product Support Team _
   
  ...so, conceivably, we could see it by April or May.


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## Waqar

Anybody have any new info on this Asus Xonar One?


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## Aldighieri

Quote: 





waqar said:


> Anybody have any new info on this Asus Xonar One?


 


 Still no news around..


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## ColdFlame

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> So it's nice if you come from an even more crummy internal soundcard, which would explain all the raving on computer websites...but it doesn't hold a candle to a proper audiophile rig. And it does videogames very poorly, as been thoroughly tested by many ppl: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/asus-xonar-essence-stx_6.html#sect0


 
   
  I have Essence STX in my main box and I'm wondering what the upgrade path would be. Can you please enlighten me on what is your definition of the "proper audiophile rig"?
   
  I mean no offense, I'm just not super happy with how STX sounds (with rolled opamps, PIMETA and HD 580s) and would like to know what I can upgrade to.


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## Solude

A good start would be giving out real info.  The upsampling listed is oversampling.  The amp given is the buffer.  The wallwart has no voltage information.  It is nice looking though


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





coldflame said:


> ...  I mean no offense, I'm just not super happy with how STX sounds (with rolled opamps, PIMETA and HD 580s) and would like to know what I can upgrade to.


 

 You can start by replacing the STX with an an external DAC.  I think that will make you much happier.
   
  PIMETA uses BUF634, right?  How many are you using?


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## dizolit

Any updates on release date/pricing?  Is there speculation that the prices on the Essence STX/ST will drop when the Essence One is released?


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## reiserFS

There are no updates on the release date or pricing as of today, but I'd expect it to hit before summer.
  
  Quote: 





dizolit said:


> Any updates on release date/pricing?  Is there speculation that the prices on the Essence STX/ST will drop when the Essence One is released?


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## remusan

any news?


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## Kail

New card from Asus? Very interesting.


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## Dynobot

People have been anticipating gear using the TI PCM1795 dac chip for a long time.


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## reiserFS

I'm afraid that there are still no news regarding the release date of the One.


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## g-san

No word from Computex?


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## kumaiti

If this thing sounds the same or better than the ST, I might replace it just for the volume knob (if it is an actual pot, not a "digital knob").
   
  If it can work as a standalone Dolby/DTS decoder (for a game console, for example) and DAC, then it is almost a day-one buy.
   
  It would be pure flexibility if it could work either through its own power supply or through USB power.


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## Mad Max

USB power?
  Don't count on it if it has a wallwart.  That would also degrade sound quality.


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## Dynobot

I really do think ASUS has addressed many issued to get the best sound.
   
  That combined with the fact that they are a $10 Billion dollar corporation means [to me] that they can turn the stand alone Dac market upside down.
   
  Their production and piece cost has got to be dirt cheap.  They have not one or two engineers at their disposal like 99% of the high end Dac companies, Lavry, Weiss, Audio-GD, etc. etc. but can put a team of engineers on the task.  Looking at past ASUS sound card products they seem to really "want" to make a Audiophile product that addresses Audiophile concerns.
   
  I really do think this Asus Essence One will be one great Dac....or at least it has the potential to be.


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## jalyst

^ That's wonderful but...
  When do we actually get more detail about it's capability & availability?


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## elrod-tom

I have a thought that it will be a GOOD DAC, but I have my doubts that it will be great.
   
  The fact that they have so many engineers on staff will certainly help, but it's a matter of ROI to a certain extent.  It's not their core function, their Essence soundcards notwithstanding.  It's a drop in the bucket when compared to their motherboard business, and will continue to be even if it's wildly successful IMHO.  Unless they can make a LOT of money doing it, it's not going to be an area of focus.  Generally speaking, the market at that end is too small for a mass-producer to be interested.
   
  BTW - I would add that good technology and access to engineering resources doesn't necessarily mean that they can implement it well in an audiophile target market even if they WANT to.  DACs and amps are still going to have to SOUND right, and IMHO the best designers are in fact audiophiles/music nuts themselves. 
   
  I have a thought that they will give it enough attention that it will be an upgrade from your headphone out (hopefully a significant upgrade!) but not a lot more.  I've heard the Essence card, and it's not bad...may pick on up myself.  That said, it's not the earth-shattering sonic revolution that one might have read about in Stereophile.  It's not going to replace the Ayre QB-9 any time soon.
   
  Having said all this, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.  A high quality but inexpensive DAC and headphone amp from a mainstream electronics manufacturer would be nothing but good IMHO.


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## Dynobot

Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> IMHO the best designers are in fact audiophiles/music nuts themselves.


 


  Good point!!!


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## leeperry

elrod-tom said:


> IMHO the best designers are in fact audiophiles/music nuts themselves.


 

 and the others listen w/ their oscilloscope(Benchmark DAC-1 anyone?) and throw measurements at you, in order to try proving their point(and impress newbies)..."OH MY GODZ, 150dB SNR...it's gonna rule!"


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## jalyst

^ oh noes, here we go again, queue cynical remark by leeperry, jk


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## Dynobot

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> and the others listen w/ their oscilloscope(Benchmark DAC-1 anyone?) and throw measurements at you, in order to try proving their point(and impress newbies)..."OH MY GODZ, 150dB SNR...it's gonna rule!"


 

 Hey how ya doing Lee....long time.
   
  What you don't like the sound of an oscilloscope???


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## leeperry

Hey Dyno, got abucted by aliens or whut?
  well, they make nice pictures..I'll give you that:


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## Dynobot

Well actually.....long story.
   
  You thinking about getting the Asus E-One too??


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## Dynobot

The thought came to mind.
   
  How would Asus sell the Essence One??
   
  Certainly computer stores are not the place, neither is Best Buy,  Walmart, etc.
   
  They might have a issue on their  hands because if they cant move the unit it will get discontinued very quickly.


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## ninjikiran

Give me some dolby headphone up in there and i'll get it to use exclusively with my game consoles.  My headphones are more than capable of being driven out of it.


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## soulj4h

No updates yet?  I'm starting to think this is some type of mystical creature like a leprachaun or a unicorn. I'm debating if I should just get an external amp for my X-Fi titanium until this card comes out.


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## Mad Max

Go with an external amp and save yourself the trouble.  =]


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## genclaymore

He can still have trouble if he gets one of those generic external amps off ebay that happens to use cheap components and in up not doing that well with the amping. So more like checking up on the amp your looking at before hitting the buy button.


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## SabreWulf69

Can we classify this as vapourware yet?


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## leeperry

sabrewulf69 said:


> Can we classify this as vapourware yet?


 
   
  Asus first showed the STX being called "StereoX" back then at a trade show:





   
  give it some time.


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## genclaymore

Look like that design would had been better off unless there was major changes then just the amount of op-amp sockets. and besides the obvious changed in the RCA outputs amount.


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## jalyst

....


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## Thunderbolt

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_s1Smsty80C4/TXDA_YLk17I/AAAAAAAABR4/vQvUHCUYZ0s/s912/P1000878.JPG
   
  so does this thing have 24 or even 32/192 bit perfect output or only upsampling? (does spdif support lossless transfer of 32-bit float?)


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## BID

Quote: 





thunderbolt said:


> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_s1Smsty80C4/TXDA_YLk17I/AAAAAAAABR4/vQvUHCUYZ0s/s912/P1000878.JPG
> 
> so does this thing have 24 or even 32/192 bit perfect output or only upsampling? (does spdif support lossless transfer of 32-bit float?)


 


  There are indicator lights for 44.1 khz through 192 khz and then "Bit perfect" output, as well as an upsampling switch.
  So 24 bit should be perfectly supported.
   
  This article is relatively new, though it doesn't really bring much new to the table except confirmation that it is still coming.
  http://techinstyle.tv/products/sound-advice-asus-xonar-essence-one/
   
  Edit: Apparently it's coming in September and will retail at £ 270 in the UK and approximately kr 3745 in Norway.


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## Thunderbolt

Im wondering, will it be able to play stuff via wasapi? meaning I use winamp with wasapi output with my laptop and then transport this via spdif to the amp. is this going to be possible?
   
  I prefer wasapi over asio


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## alexk400

when it is released?.


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## germanium

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Asus first showed the STX being called "StereoX" back then at a trade show:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 That looks like a preliminary version as it has a different layout & a completely seperate analog path fot the headphone out with its own DAC & opamps. The headphone amp looks to be positioned above the Line out amps instead of below on the ST/STX. This puts the headphone amp farther away from the headphone jach than on the ST/STX cards. They may have used cheaper DACs on it to make up for having 2 of them than the ST/STX cards which only have one higher grade DAC (this is an assumtion based on the appearnce & the lower specs than the ST/STX cards). This card may have used solinoids to change the gain which means that the physical gain of the the headphone amp is altered. This would be better than the STX if that were the case but the solinoids may also be for redirection to the front panel of the computer, I believe this to be in fact the case though rather than for gain change.
   
  Of coarse, I know this is all meaningless as this card was actually never released. If they did come out with a new version of the ST/STX card I would prefer them to have a physical means of changing the gain of the headphone amp as this would improve the S/N ratio & enable these cards to be used with high sensitivity IEM's without loss of dynamic range. The current ST/STX cards do this in software which causes a loss of dynamic range which for the most part is not noticable except with high sensitivity IEM's.


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## khaos974

I sadly predict an output impedance of 10 ohms, just like the ST/STX series 

I'm curious about it though, it may be a very decent DAC/AMP combo.


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## Thunderbolt

whats the problem with output impedance of 10 ohms with the stx? (got no clue)


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## khaos974

You would be looking into possibly 6 dB variation in the frequency range low impedance headphones, for example, the sound signature of a balanced armature with a nominal impedance of 16 ohms (which actually means its impedance could range between 6 and 40 ohms) would be wildly changed.


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## alexk400

when it is going to be released? i need on.


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## jalyst

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Asus first showed the STX being called "StereoX" back then at a trade show:
> give it some time.


 


  When is "back then"?
  It's not clear from your post.
  Not flaming, just curious.


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## ale3hs

Hi guys, 
  looks good for the price based on yesterdays standards. But single dac chip :/ I think i'd go for the teac ud-h01 which will be available sooner, has better specs and probably its at the same price range. Although my first choice is onkyo dac-1000


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## Tablix

http://pressoffice.mg.co.za/asus/PressRelease.php?StoryID=221382
   
  Thought I would share this, not sure how much of this is new information but it certainly caught my eye, as I am looking for a USB DAC when the wallet allows.


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## khaos974

There are nice pictures too, the finish is not too shabby:





And they are including an


> Audio Precision (AP) test report *1



with the package, I hope it's somewhat complete.


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## hidefjunkie

Hi guys! 
   
  Just an info. This product has been announced in my home (Hungary, Europe), too. Currently no info on price, but ASUS said it will be available shortly, and even give some preview units to a few computer websites.
   
  So, anyways, I'm sure it will be available in the US, and other countries soon.

Here's the source (of course its in hungarian  ).


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## germanium

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> You would be looking into possibly 6 dB variation in the frequency range low impedance headphones, for example, the sound signature of a balanced armature with a nominal impedance of 16 ohms (which actually means its impedance could range between 6 and 40 ohms) would be wildly changed.


 


 I would liketo point out that the card was never designed to drive phones less than 32 ohms impedance. The variations of such a phone would likely be less than 2-3 db which though audible is not a huge deal. Even with 16 ohm phone it is not likely to see 6 db variation, more like about 4-5db variation at worst. This actually works out to an advantage with most single driver IEM's as they tend to perform better with a higher source impedance anyway.
   
  Such resistors in the output of headphone amps are actually common place & most headphones are not all that sensitive to this impedance. Many receivers have much higher ouput impedance than the essense does, typically more than 450ohms! Even so they can still sound good with most phones. The resistor is there to protect against short circiuts.


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## leeperry

tablix said:


> http://pressoffice.mg.co.za/asus/PressRelease.php?StoryID=221382
> 
> Thought I would share this, not sure how much of this is new information but it certainly caught my eye, as I am looking for a USB DAC when the wallet allows.


 
   
_"[size=x-small]11 operational amplifier (op-amp) design for distinct tonal customisation."[/size]_
   
  11 opamps in the signal path?


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## khaos974

But it is possible to design a near zero impedance headphone out, Meie Audio, Violectric, Benchmark all do it without endangering your headphones.


By the way, the press release states:


> Headphone amplifier
> 
> The Xonar Essence One integrates an audiophile-class headphone AMP circuit which powers up all Hi-Fi headphones, enabling 100% performance even with impedance of sets up to 600ohms. It offers extra dynamics, sound details and low distortion for the absolute best sound quality possible.




No mention of lower impedance limit.



leeperry said:


> _"[size=x-small]11 operational amplifier (op-amp) design for distinct tonal customisation."[/size]_
> 
> 11 opamps in the signal path?




No, apparently you can swap opamp and it happens they tested 11 different ones.


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## jalyst

(1)
  This doesn't doesn't do more than 2ch analogue-out right.
  Would it be possible to mod it to do more?
  I guess it'd be far too tricky, & not worth one's time/effort.
   
  (2)
  No digital-out either right?
   
  Two must-have's for me unfortunately.
  I guess I'll have to stick with my ST.
  I was hoping for a nice upgrade to the ST.
   
  Anyone know if there's discrete cards planned, that improve on the ST/X?


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## mattering

interesting...but since i have a STX, i probably wont need this . Plus if i were to find a external DAC, i'd find another one but i'm interested in how much they are going to be selling.


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## Bojamijams

1) Nope
   
  2) Why would you want a digital out? No DAC that I know of has one. You need to FEED this thing with a digital input so why should it pass that signal out .. and to what? another dac? pointless
  
  Quote: 





jalyst said:


> (1)
> This doesn't doesn't do more than 2ch analogue-out right.
> Would it be possible to mod it to do more?
> I guess it'd be far too tricky, & not worth one's time/effort.
> ...


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> _"[size=x-small]11 operational amplifier (op-amp) design for distinct tonal customisation."[/size]_
> 
> 11 opamps in the signal path?


 

 I laughed, too!
   
   
   
  Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> 1) Nope
> 
> 2) Why would you want a digital out? No DAC that I know of has one. You need to FEED this thing with a digital input so why should it pass that signal out .. and to what? another dac? pointless


 

 There are DACs with digital output if you search, I've come across a handful.  What is it for?  I don't know, not my interest.


----------



## leeperry

mad max said:


> There are DACs with digital output if you search, I've come across a handful.  What is it for?  I don't know, not my interest.


 

 The most ideal scenario of them all is to output a word clock to your transport to enslave it, so the DAC doesn't have to run in slave mode from the S/PDIF|AES/EBU recovered clock but the transport does, and off a clean clock. The m2tech EVO supports this...and so do some of those antilope DAC's I think.


----------



## TheGomdoRi

More information perhaps: http://www.asus.com/News/uKyKEy072stXi6VP/


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





thegomdori said:


> More information perhaps: http://www.asus.com/News/uKyKEy072stXi6VP/


 

 11 opamps in the signal path?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think they need to revise their diction elaborate there.


----------



## reiserFS

11 OPAs? Interesting...


----------



## Head Injury

Interesting that its SNR is actually lower than the Essence STX, at least if that's the DAC alone. I'd like to see the other measurements. It would be nice if ASUS breaks the usual audiophool mold and publishes extensive ones.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





head injury said:


> Interesting that its SNR is actually lower than the Essence STX, at least if that's the DAC alone. I'd like to see the other measurements. It would be nice if ASUS breaks the usual audiophool mold and publishes extensive ones.


 


 DAC is a lower qualty unit than in the ST/STX. This should not be a problem though in most cases. It should still have pretty much the same sound signature. The DAC offers compatability with 32 bit audio but does not really take advantage of this to produce better specs or sound than 24 bit sound. To be honest There are no chips yet that exeed the limits of 24 bit audio. Not even the 32 bit chips that have the best specs out there which are the ESS Sabre chips. Having the best specs do not garrantee best sound however.


----------



## Bojamijams

After all, its not the DAC chip thats the most important, but the analog stage right after it.


----------



## Thunderbolt

so you can exchange the opamps of that thing by yourself?


----------



## Tablix

More information relating to price in this forums post, assuming the price mentioned is UK sterling.  Not an "official" release price, and the company concerned has not commented on whether they will stock the product.
   
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18305799


----------



## Unclewai

A guy in Taiwan bought it for 18,000 taiwan dollars, which is like 620USD


----------



## TheGomdoRi

How did he get it =o


----------



## ninjikiran

Who would want to put 10 signal degrading. distortion adding opamps in between the dac and my ears.  That just sounds silly, even if the end result  is not grating to the ears.


----------



## Mad Max

Maybe they went like iBasso with socketed L/R, ground, virtual ground, buffers, and I/V.


----------



## reiserFS

I'll rip this thing apart as soon as I get it and try to fit some HDAMs in there, I highly doubt that they installed 11 OPAs.


----------



## sonci

Quote: 





thegomdori said:


> More information perhaps: http://www.asus.com/News/uKyKEy072stXi6VP/


 


 This is ridiculous!
  Are these people audio enginers or serial ata developers?


----------



## Mad Max

HDAMs?  =\


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> 1) Nope
> 
> 2) Why would you want a digital out? No DAC that I know of has one. You need to FEED this thing with a digital input so why should it pass that signal out .. and to what? another dac? pointless


 

 Well, not really. I use an Essence ST + H6 in my HTPC build...
  But sometimes I want to switch to digital-out for my AVR/Separates.
  If this had digital-out & multi-ch analog-out, I'd mount it inside my HTPC.*
  T'would be a nice replacement for my Essence ST + H6, no more PCI slots used.
  I hope they release a revised Essence ST/X that integrates the H6, & maybe a multi-ch amp.
  The latter's not a big deal, as I generally prefer using separate amp/s.
   
  *case is Silverstone CW02B


----------



## audionewbieyao

Guys, 
  I did some search and found this, it's an open box preview and with board images
http://my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=147355


----------



## audionewbieyao

some more images

   
  96K

   
   
  Using MAC


----------



## audionewbieyao

http://my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=1672&page=170


----------



## TCM

If I want to use this with both headphones and active speakers, how do I switch between them? Or are headphone output and speaker output *always *on?


----------



## leeperry

Humm, it's gonna cost a fortune to roll opamps in this thing...22 opamps, 11 browndogs, a whole afternoon of soldering. Talk about dedication.
   
  Nice to see that they use a USB chipset neither us or google have ever heard of, but apparently C-Media is owned by Asus so that'd explain a thing or two. We can only hope that it abides by the USB Class 1.0/2.0 standard, coz C-Media are not the sharpest knives in the drawer when it comes to WDM drivers.


----------



## cladisch

> Nice to see that they use a USB chipset neither us or google have ever heard of, but apparently C-Media is owned by Asus so that'd explain a thing or two.


 

 For well-paying customers like Asus, C-Media has always been happy to build special chips (that is, to paint custom labels on top of existing chips).
  This particular chip (USB 2.0 input, stereo I²S output) looks exactly like a CM6610.



> We can only hope that it abides by the USB Class 1.0/2.0 standard, coz C-Media are not the sharpest knives in the drawer when it comes to WDM drivers.


 
   
  All their USB 1.x chips are class compliant, and cannot be changed.
  The high-speed chips (CM6610/20) are described as being class compliant, but have the embedded CPU and flash necessary to implement a custom firmware. Anyway, I doubt that Asus would bother to change the USB interface's firmware.
   
  For me, the most interesting thing is the Shark DSP (but doing nothing but oversampling, it's probably half bored, the poor thing).


----------



## reiserFS

This looks like a beast, we need a price tag right now!


----------



## leeperry

cladisch said:


> This particular chip (USB 2.0 input, stereo I²S output) looks exactly like a CM6610.
> 
> [..]
> 
> For me, the most interesting thing is the Shark DSP (but doing nothing but oversampling, it's probably half bored, the poor thing).


 
   
  No 88.2 support: http://www.cmedia.com.tw/ProductsDetail.aspx?C1Serno=2&C2Serno=2&C3Serno=6&PSerno=25
   
  Shark DSP?


----------



## JavierS

I think you don't get 88.2 and 176.4 IF the 6610/6620 is paired with their CM9982A Codec but in the Asus it'll be paired to the AD DSP and then to the PCM1795s.


----------



## leeperry

It's good to see that they didn't go cheap for the PSU, I wonder if the volume pot is analog or digital...hopefully the latter.


----------



## Mad Max

It looks analogue, who knows.


----------



## coolice

More photo in ASUS Singapore facebook page


----------



## Bojamijams

I still don`t get over the 11opamps. Just a bad bad BAD idea


----------



## cladisch

> No 88.2 support: http://www.cmedia.com.tw/ProductsDetail.aspx?C1Serno=2&C2Serno=2&C3Serno=6&PSerno=25


 
  With support for 44.1, 48, and 96 kHz, all the necessary clocks and dividers are there. In the worst case, Asus would have to extend the firmware.



> Shark DSP?


 
  Sorry, Sharc DSP.
  This is just what the ADSP-21xxx family is called by Analog.


----------



## leeperry

I don't think adding 88.2 would be trivial, considering C-Media being as careless as can get.
   
  I guess it's got so many opamps because there are 2 discrete DAC chips in mono, so it takes 2 dual opamps for each DAC +/- polarities, 1 dual opamp buffer to amplify them to line level, 2 dual opamps for the balanced XLR output, 1 dual opamp for the unbalanced RCA output, so that's already 9 dual opamps just for the DAC output, then 2 more for the HP out I would guess. Still, they're all 5532 and 4562 which will provide killer measurements...but if you wanna use audiophile parts like OPA827/AD797B/LT1028/ADA4627-1B, it will cost a lot of money and time soldering them. It'd better sound eye popping stock already to warrant all these expenses.
   
  You can't take them away that 1) they used a good PSU 2) all opamps are swappable 3) that's an original design to say the least. I guess Asus aren't crazy, if they've thought it'd be worth it to use that many opamps we'd better hear it before judging. Luckily it doesn't require proprietary drivers, so that's good =)


----------



## jalyst

jalyst said:


> Well, not really. I use an Essence ST + H6 in my HTPC build...
> But sometimes I want to switch to digital-out for my AVR/Separates.
> If this had digital-out & multi-ch analog-out, I'd mount it inside my HTPC.*
> T'would be a nice replacement for my Essence ST + H6, no more PCI slots used.
> ...


 

 Anyone reckon Asus will release a revised ST/X soon with the above characteristics?
  I'd prefer PCIe-based, but I don't care if it becomes external/USB-based.


----------



## mattering

looks really neat .__. ... wonder what the price is gonna be =w=


----------



## khaos974

Apparently, the MSRP is INR 21,000, which amounts to EUR 315 or USD 458 today.


----------



## gurubhai

INR 21,000 (Indian rupees) ?
   
  What's your source ?
  Has it been released in India ?


----------



## reiserFS

Too much, I can get Audio-Gd stuff for that money.
  
  Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> Apparently, the MSRP is INR 21,000, which amounts to EUR 315 or USD 458 today.


----------



## khaos974

gurubhai said:


> INR 21,000 (Indian rupees) ?
> 
> What's your source ?
> Has it been released in India ?




I don't exactly remember, it was in an article that appeared in Google News when I searched for "asus essence one", it's only a few days old.


----------



## Mad Max

It better kill A-gd's entry-evel units in that case. =p


----------



## DarKu

Hi Guys.
  Listened to Essence One for one day. Sorry for the blurry image.
  I don't know how much it will cost but I really liked it with HD800 and LCD-2. It is not on the same level as my HA-160D, but very good IMO.
  Is quite bassy actually, maybe too much bass with LCD-2 for my liking, good mid, VERY nice presence and stereo image. Hights are slightly recessed, that gives that analog feel. The device sounds very analogue and smooth, with an accent on bass and mids. It's not so detailed than my Burson, but sounds very nice with old rock or electronica music. Has awesome PRaT too.
  I'm working on a review for this (not sure if will do it in English too)


----------



## reiserFS

Mind telling me where you sourced one from?
  
  Quote: 





darku said:


> Hi Guys.
> Listened to Essence One for one day. Sorry for the blurry image.
> I don't know how much it will cost but I really liked it with HD800 and LCD-2. It is not on the same level as my HA-160D, but very good IMO.
> Is quite bassy actually, maybe too much bass with LCD-2 for my liking, good mid, VERY nice presence and stereo image. Hights are slightly recessed, that gives that analog feel. The device sounds very analogue and smooth, with an accent on bass and mids. It's not so detailed than my Burson, but sounds very nice with old rock or electronica music. Has awesome PRaT too.
> I'm working on a review for this (not sure if will do it in English too)


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Mind telling me where you sourced one from?


 


  I am part of Press 
  The review is done: http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/01/asus-xonar-essence-one-review/
  In English will be done in few days, sorry.
   
  Edit: Seems like it's first review in the world, at least on something I am first 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Later EDIT (09.09.11):the *English review is done too* and can be read here: http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/09/asus-xonar-essence-one-review-english-version/
  I hope you like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## khaos974

darku said:


> I am part of Press
> The review is done: http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/01/asus-xonar-essence-one-review/
> In English will be done in few days, sorry.
> 
> Edit: Seems like it's first review in the world, at least on something I am first




Is it me or are some components bent (as in not vertical), should this be considered shoddy manufacturing?


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> Is it me or are some components bent (as in not vertical), should this be considered shoddy manufacturing?


 
  What components ?
  Actually I was shocked about the manufacturing quality of this product, the PSU is big, and internal wiring is very professional, Sanyo and Wima caps, Alps pot, for a 500$ price, it will be a killer IMO. I am actually thinking about one as a secondary (job) rig.


----------



## khaos974

The flue caps for example are not really straight, neither are the Wima caps.


----------



## pdv373

Just read the review. Thanks for that and I'm also looking forward to your English review. 
   
  So in a nut shell, (correct me if I'm wrong) your opinion is that its noticeably better than STX, but seems to lack detail at higher frequencies? Also sound gets distorted at very high volumes with HD800 and LCD-2? Any other major issues?
   
  And In your opinion, for someone who owns STX...is it worthwhile to upgrade to Essence One?


----------



## khaos974

Would it also be possible to get pictures of that AP test report?


----------



## audionewbieyao

Thanks to Google Translations, it's a nice review.
  Looking forward to more reviews for this newcomer.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





pdv373 said:


> Just read the review. Thanks for that and I'm also looking forward to your English review.
> 
> So in a nut shell, (correct me if I'm wrong) your opinion is that its noticeably better than STX, but seems to lack detail at higher frequencies? Also sound gets distorted at very high volumes with HD800 and LCD-2? Any other major issues?
> 
> And In your opinion, for someone who owns STX...is it worthwhile to upgrade to Essence One?


 


  Thanks guys for kind words, will be ready in this weekend in English too.
   
  Shortly, I really loved the device. When I received it, I was like "meh" another DAC/Amp in the 400 Euro area, but when I've listened to the thing I was completely enveloped in the music. The headphone volume pot of the device for LCD-2 for jazz music I use at 12 oclock, and 11 ocklock for rock, with HD800 is even lower, so no worries here, it can driver absolutely everything (except K1000 and HE-6 of course) I does clip and distort a bit at maximum volume, but who ever will listen to ear shattering levels ?
  In comparison  STX is brighter, Essence One is a lot smoother and bassier, also more detailed even if highs are little recessed.
   
  @khaos974  
  What do you mean by AP test report? 
  We send back the device to the manufacturer, If you mean some other photos from the package, we cannot have them as we sent it back already.


----------



## zenpunk

The STX CAN power the HE-6 without any issue. Listening to it right now on high gain, volume at 50 per cent.


----------



## khaos974

darku said:


> What do you mean by AP test report?
> We send back the device to the manufacturer, If you mean some other photos from the package, we cannot have them as we sent it back already.




This is the list accessories that are suppose to be included in the box


> USB cable (‘B-A’ type) *1
> 
> Power cord *1 (Some versions may have 2 power cords for different countries)
> 
> ...




Source: http://www.guru3d.com/news/asus-launches-xonar-essence-one-with-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> This is the list accessories that are suppose to be included in the box  Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  We don't have any more photos, and everything was sent back, so not for now 

  
  STX powering at* full potential* the HE-6? Funny joke


----------



## reiserFS

The STX can power the HE-6 to listening levels, but far away from the full potentional.
  
  Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> The STX CAN power the HE-6 without any issue. Listening to it right now on high gain, volume at 50 per cent.


----------



## trog

Hmm having read that Romanian review, what is you guys' take : worth every cent of asking price or....


----------



## Paul Blythe

DarKu - just read your review (using google translate) and the XE1 sounds like it could be a nice piece of kit. Glad it was reviewed against Burson's HA-160D as this is the dac/amp I'd love to own.  Be interesting to see how it compares to the likes of NuForce's Icon HDP or even the Benchmark Dac1 USB.
   
  Just wondering what the Essence One would sound like fitted with Burson HD Audio Opamps!?


----------



## reiserFS

http://www.cclonline.com/product/66258/90-YAB630B-UAY0MZ/Sound-Cards/Asus-Xonar-Essence-ONE-External-USB-Soundcard/SND0031/
   
  334€, not too bad I guess.


----------



## pdv373

trog said:


> Hmm having read that Romanian review, what is you guys' take : worth every cent of asking price or....




It remains to be seen what the final US retail pricing is. If they can do 300-400 range it may be a very good deal. For a big computer company like ASUS its a huge gamble to put out a niche Audiophile product like this. Let's face it, average mainstream consumer will not be lining up in Best Buy to get this thing and it remains to be seen if hardcore audiophiles will be swayed by something that has an "ASUS" label on it. So they are really targeting Audiophiles that want to build a mid-level headphone rig. I would wait for more reviews to roll in before rendering final verdict... though I suspect many intitial reviews will be super positive. I bet many will claim that it outperforms any high-end system they have heard... especially if ASUS is making an emphasis on BASS.

As for me, I'm considering getting either Essence One or Schiit Bifrost/Lyr combo. And to be honest, I'd rather have one cheap black box on my table than 2 expensive silver ones.


----------



## trog

Ya prudent stand would be to await more in depth reviews but from what i understand 
   
   
  http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/technology/asus-launches-xonar-essence-one-for-audio-enthusiasts_580585.html
    
  Quote: 





> ASUS has priced the Essence One at Rs. 21,000 and the product is being sold locally with a warranty of one year.


 
   

   
  So early estimations point @ USD $455


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Thanks for the review DarKu.  I would be interested in knowing how the DAC of the Asus compares with that of the Burson.  
   
  In addition, if I buy the Asus, i'd like it to be at least equal in sound quality to my musical fidelity A3.5 CD, which has a 24 bit 96 kHz DAC.  I think it is very similar in spec to the older x ray v3 cd player and of lower quality than the x dac v3 (however, my 3.5 CDP does has a toroidal PSU).
   
  Thanks!!!


----------



## jalyst

jalyst said:


> Well, not really. I use an Essence ST + H6 in my HTPC build...
> But sometimes I want to switch to digital-out for my AVR/Separates.
> If this had digital-out & multi-ch analog-out, I'd mount it inside my HTPC.*
> T'would be a nice replacement for my Essence ST + H6, no more PCI slots used.
> ...




Anyone reckon Asus will release a revised ST/X soon with the above characteristics?
I'd prefer PCIe-based, but I don't care if it becomes external/USB-based.


----------



## jalyst

Sounding (no pun intended) excellent based on 1st review...
Not quite for me (as per prior post), but still interested to see how most reviews say it compares to ST & STX.


----------



## dmcs414

Anyone know if this thing will convert to Dolby Headphone for gaming?  I didn't see anything about that in the spec sheet and I'm looking for a good external DAC for my laptop that I can also game with.


----------



## DarKu

Ok guys, the *English review is DONE *






, sorry for the delay: http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/09/asus-xonar-essence-one-review-english-version/
  Hope you like it.
  Shortly, i'll be getting one as soon as it hits the marked, as a secondary rig.


----------



## Arnotts

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Anyone know if this thing will convert to Dolby Headphone for gaming?  I didn't see anything about that in the spec sheet and I'm looking for a good external DAC for my laptop that I can also game with.


 


  I agree. This would actually make their external DAC/amp really unique, and to be honest I think they need something like this to properly get into the external DAC/amp market. Other than some computer users, how many audiophiles would trust a DAC/amp box from a computer brand like Asus?


----------



## cladisch

Quote: 





> Anyone know if this thing will convert to Dolby Headphone for gaming?


 

http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_One/#specifications
   
  It "preserves faithful details". No Dolby.
   
  Quote: 





> I'm looking for a good external DAC for my laptop that I can also game with.


 

 This is what Asus designed the U3 for (although your definition of "good" might be different).


----------



## derbigpr

Knowing how well the Xonar D2X and STX sound, I'd buy this without ever reading a single review on it.  Over the years I started liking Asus products so much that its probably become the only company out there that I trust completely, and know that I always get top quality for very good price.


----------



## Bojamijams

I fail to see the point of this thing... Audio-GD stuff accomplishes more for less. 
   
  And it really SHOULD have Dolby Headphone support.. thats one way it could distinguish itself from the likes of Audio-GD on the lower end and the Burson on the higher end.


----------



## n00kie

I totally agree. Maybe Asus can implement Dolby Headphone via Software update?


----------



## Willakan

Asus designs to solid engineering - it's all they know. On the other hand, AudioGd's marketing material is busy trying to convince me that opamps and feedback are evil, and that they didn't include a voltage selection switch because it would compromise the sound quality. I'm not in the market for a DAC, but I know which one would get my money.


----------



## livewire

Obviously not AudioGd.
   
  BTW, opamps _are _evil.
  Some say it depends on the implementation.
  Since I dont know anything about that (how the engineer designs the circuit),
  I just steer clear of them these days.
  I do know that every piece of equipment that I have owned or listened to
  that uses opamps in the signal path has flawed characteristics.
  At least to these ears....


----------



## mikeaj

edit: nevermind I see the AP test report was mentioned earlier. Any pictures or descriptions of what's there?



livewire said:


> Obviously not AudioGd.
> 
> BTW, opamps _are _evil.
> Some say it depends on the implementation.
> ...



The short and sweet argument goes: you know how many op amps are in the signal path of pretty much every recorded piece of music out there, by the time you purchase it? Of course it depends on the implementation, but the alternative to op amps are even more dependent on the implementation.


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





livewire said:


> ...  BTW, opamps _are _evil.
> Some say it depends on the implementation.
> Since I dont know anything about that (how the engineer designs the circuit),
> I just steer clear of them these days.
> ...


 

 Fabulous fairy tale, dawg!


----------



## Arnotts

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I fail to see the point of this thing... Audio-GD stuff accomplishes more for less.
> 
> And it really SHOULD have Dolby Headphone support.. thats one way it could distinguish itself from the likes of Audio-GD on the lower end and the Burson on the higher end.


 


  When you say Audio-GD stuff accomplishes more for less... you're saying Audio-GD stuff sounds better than a product you've never heard?


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





arnotts said:


> When you say Audio-GD stuff accomplishes more for less... you're saying Audio-GD stuff sounds better than a product you've never heard?


 

  
  Agree with you.
   
  I really liked how Essence One sounded, even comparing with my Burson, Asus sound actualy Very nice, I can even say that it sounds about 80% as Burson, Burson having the edge in speed, control, amplification factor and detail retrieval department, but the difference is not that big.
  Listened to lower offerings by Audio-GD, very nice specs but they didnt impress me sonically at all, sorry. Everything is subjective and it's my opinion, by my ear


----------



## Bojamijams

I fail to see how 11 op-amps sounds better then a discrete design so ... yes .. I am saying Audio-GD stuff sounds better then this.


----------



## Willakan

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I fail to see how 11 op-amps sounds better then a discrete design so ... yes .. I am saying Audio-GD stuff sounds better then this.


 
  I fail to see how discrete designs have any inherent advantage when we're talking about driving headphones. The amount of R&D and expensive parts required to develop a discrete design to compete with pretty old, 50 cent IC opamps is truly monstrous.
  In fact, I would put my money consistently on the IC opamps. Especially vs AudioGd products. Have you seen the measurements for their discrete opamps? They're a traffic accident, worse than the aforementioned 50 cent ICs on prettymuch every conceivable level.
   
  Seriously, read Burson's article on why opamps are bad. It's barely literate, contains a tonne of unsubstantiated crap and virtually no real science. They and other companies are pandering to audiophile irrationality.


----------



## reiserFS

Pointless arguments if you didn't compare both before.
  
  Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I fail to see how 11 op-amps sounds better then a discrete design so ... yes .. I am saying Audio-GD stuff sounds better then this.


----------



## Bojamijams

Do I really need to hear both a CMOY and a Beta22 to guess which will sound better?


----------



## Tablix

I am sure ASUS and their dedicated team of sound engineers would love to meet up with you for a little advice on how to improve their product, after all you can criticise without ever using it then I am sure you can advise its manufacturers.  ASUS "may" be a computer manufacturer in your eyes but they are a huge multinational company that could probably buy every headphone manufacturer if they chose too.  This is not some inexperienced company playing at making audio equipment, they have been succesfully selling audio cards for over a decade.  The product is "new" in terms of being an external sound device but the people designing it are not school kids, they are specialist proffesionals with far more experience of chipset/board design than you give them credit for.  They also have the advantage of buying power to assist in keeping costs of internal systems low, as well as having a pre-existing manufacturing base to further lower overheads.  If anything ASUS can produce a product better for less by simple logic.  Whether this is case is still open to speculation, I will admit I have not tested the equipment so I cant comment on how it compairs to its competitors. 
   
  After all ASUS have a very good reputation when it comes to PC hardware why would they want to risk that on a shoddy device when the two markets have a destinct crossover in terms of customers and technology.  I would say anyone reading this thread is using a PC either as a direct source, or for gathering music for their generic media player.  ASUS would not shoot themselves in the foot by releasing a product that is substandard, its counterproductive. 
   
  I am not even going to speculate as to how it compares to "specialst" equipment made by "niche" manufacturers, but at the end of the day even when it comes to value I doubt ASUS is adding many $ for its name plate compared to some of the more specialist amp/dac producers.  How many $ are you paying for "Burson" on your box of tricks and is it actually worth a 100% price hike for a 1-5% gain..
   
  At the end of the day this box is an all in one entry level dac/amp and is priced accordingly, if you choose not to buy one fine, but why trash its reputation before you have even testsed it, to me that is the behaviour of a forums troll, and the "headphone supremus" tag without any actual science is another clue to the bridge you live under....


----------



## reiserFS

But of course!
  
  Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> Do I really need to hear both a CMOY and a Beta22 to guess which will sound better?


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





mad max said:


> Fabulous fairy tale, dawg!


 


 Says he who rocks the HF Opamp thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Actually I do have a use for opamps - in my portable DAC/amp. The sound is "passable", I do enjoy it.
  You opamp guys are gonna have lotz-O-fun rollin the Asus. Or go broke trying. 11 opa's, Sheesh!


----------



## jalyst

For the love of god, anybody??
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/135#post_7735450
  Thanks very much to anyone that can help.


----------



## khaos974

jalyst said:


> For the love of god, anybody??
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/135#post_7735450
> Thanks very much to anyone that can help.




Unless someone here is working for Asus or has access to privileged information, they won't have this kind of information, they'd be bound by an NDA anyway, so it's very very unlikely that someone would be able to help.


----------



## jalyst

^ I realise that, I'm not asking for all the "dirt"...
  Just thoughts on if it's likely for them to head in that direction w/their next revision of ST/STX or Essence One.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## reiserFS

The One is now listed on German websites as 379€.


----------



## TCM

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> The One is now listed on German websites as 379€.


 


  On the swedish price comparison site www.prisjakt.nu , the price varies from 3309 SEK to 4536 SEK (358-491 €)


----------



## cer

This would make a nice digital preamp for active speakers, but no remote - no deal.


----------



## Aldighieri

where can I get this nice power cw
  Were can I get this nice power cable? looks like ASus  branded...


----------



## khaos974

aldighieri said:


> where can I get this nice power cw
> Were can I get this nice power cable? looks like ASus  branded...




It's not, it's probably something like a Shunyata, and probably sold at a dozen times the price of the DAC (not that it's nearly worth the price IMHO).


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





tablix said:


> I am sure ASUS and their dedicated team of sound engineers would love to meet up with you for a little advice on how to improve their product, after all you can criticise without ever using it then I am sure you can advise its manufacturers.  ASUS "may" be a computer manufacturer in your eyes but they are a huge multinational company that could probably buy every headphone manufacturer if they chose too.  This is not some inexperienced company playing at making audio equipment, they have been succesfully selling audio cards for over a decade.  The product is "new" in terms of being an external sound device but the people designing it are not school kids, they are specialist proffesionals with far more experience of chipset/board design than you give them credit for.  They also have the advantage of buying power to assist in keeping costs of internal systems low, as well as having a pre-existing manufacturing base to further lower overheads.  If anything ASUS can produce a product better for less by simple logic.  Whether this is case is still open to speculation, I will admit I have not tested the equipment so I cant comment on how it compairs to its competitors.
> 
> After all ASUS have a very good reputation when it comes to PC hardware why would they want to risk that on a shoddy device when the two markets have a destinct crossover in terms of customers and technology.  I would say anyone reading this thread is using a PC either as a direct source, or for gathering music for their generic media player.  ASUS would not shoot themselves in the foot by releasing a product that is substandard, its counterproductive.
> 
> ...


 


  I completely agree.  People who laugh at Asus Xonar products are simply ignorant, especially those who use DYI products or producs made by very small audio companies, producs that are often made by hand or in poor conditions.
  Also, as you said, Asus is a company that is very highly respected in the world of PC hardware,  they build graphics cards and motherboards for gods sake,  stuff that is technically LIGHT YEARS ahead of something as simple as a DAC or a headphones amplifier, so i'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, and I trust them more than some small audio companies with questionable expertise who put price tags on their products that are 5-6 times higher than the product itself deserves.
   
   
  I have an Asus Xonar D2X sound card, I payed 200 dollars for it, and i can say with full responsibility that it wipes the floor with any external DAC or DAC/amp combo in the price range that i've heard.  Compared with even the best DAC's in that price range (something like amps/dac's from nufoce , ibasso, fiio, audinst....), there simply is no contest in terms of sounds quality, features, flexibility, build quality and bang for the buck.    And the D2X is not even the top of the range card, and is not even in the audiophile category among asus audio products.
   
  I'm definitely buying the essence one and replacing my D2x, i wanted an external DAC that would offer better SQ than D2X for a long time.


----------



## Willakan

Asus designs according to, you know, electrical theory. They know exactly how their designs perform and know exactly how to make them perform better. They also know when they've hit the point of diminishing returns.
   
  Tiny audiophile companies, on the other hand, are led by wizards. These wizards are not held down by the things that fetter mere mortals, such as stability of their amplifiers, reading the datasheet of a component they're using or making comprehensive sets of measurements to verify the product does what it says on the tin. 
  Good audio design requires lots of very expensive instrumentation to verify you haven't screwed up. So, even if these companies designed to sane criteria (as opposed to the aforementioned OMG OPAMPS ARE TEH EVILS I HATE FEEDBACKS marketing hysteria) they already can't afford the instrumentation to ensure they have a good product. As it happens, not only can they not afford this instrumentation (well, they could quite easily I suspect in many cases, but there are "other" priorities such as selling things) but they regularly throw basic design rules out of the window and then put their absence from the design in their product description as selling points! 
   
  Such companies, however, are generally very good at marketing.


----------



## Aldighieri

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> It's not, it's probably something like a Shunyata, and probably sold at a dozen times the price of the DAC (not that it's nearly worth the price IMHO).


 


 Good point, thank you for suggestion..


----------



## mikeaj

willakan said:


> Asus designs according to, you know, electrical theory. They know exactly how their designs perform and know exactly how to make them perform better. They also know when they've hit the point of diminishing returns.
> 
> Tiny audiophile companies, on the other hand, are led by wizards. These wizards are not held down by the things that fetter mere mortals, such as stability of their amplifiers, reading the datasheet of a component they're using or making comprehensive sets of measurements to verify the product does what it says on the tin.
> Good audio design requires lots of very expensive instrumentation to verify you haven't screwed up. So, even if these companies designed to sane criteria (as opposed to the aforementioned OMG OPAMPS ARE TEH EVILS I HATE FEEDBACKS marketing hysteria) they already can't afford the instrumentation to ensure they have a good product. As it happens, not only can they not afford this instrumentation (well, they could quite easily I suspect in many cases, but there are "other" priorities such as selling things) but they regularly throw basic design rules out of the window and then put their absence from the design in their product description as selling points!
> ...




Hm, I'm not sure if I'd say "very expensive instrumentation" though you qualify that. The level of precision you need for audio measurements isn't really all _that_ high, and in other fields you definitely need to work with much more expensive test gear and setups. (Even Hadron Colliders aside)

Small audiophile companies are often members of the community (going to meets, and so on), so it's easy to see why they can get sales and recommendations. They also know their audience better, so they can market to them better.


----------



## Optimus Praim

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I completely agree.  People who laugh at Asus Xonar products are simply ignorant, especially those who use DYI products or producs made by very small audio companies, producs that are often made by hand or in poor conditions.
> Also, as you said, Asus is a company that is very highly respected in the world of PC hardware,  they build graphics cards and motherboards for gods sake,  stuff that is technically LIGHT YEARS ahead of something as simple as a DAC or a headphones amplifier, so i'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, and I trust them more than some small audio companies with questionable expertise who put price tags on their products that are 5-6 times higher than the product itself deserves.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  +100...
 I couldn't agree more to everything you wrote...
  I'll keep an eye on the DAC to see how it compares to other ones at his price range..
   
  Here is a recent review.
http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/09/asus-xonar-essence-one-review-english-version/


----------



## oqvist

Asus know marketing much better then the small homebrew companies. More importantly they have much more funds for PR. Also it´s not like if you win head-fi you win the world . This is not the market Asus really want to win it´s the mass consumer market. Gamers that realize they want good audio for example will have an easier time see oh well Asus is nice rather then this company I have never heard of and there is never any adds for.
   
  Would be fun to hear one the Asus Essence ST was quite okay as a DAC. Though I am all set on crappy audiophile gear


----------



## Willakan

@MikeAJ
  I suppose it isn't that expensive compared with other fields, but it still seems to be pricey enough for some very prominent designers/companies, whose products feature prominently on here, to not bother.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





oqvist said:


> Asus know marketing much better then the small homebrew companies. More importantly they have much more funds for PR. Also it´s not like if you win head-fi you win the world . This is not the market Asus really want to win it´s the mass consumer market. Gamers that realize they want good audio for example will have an easier time see oh well Asus is nice rather then this company I have never heard of and there is never any adds for.
> 
> Would be fun to hear one the Asus Essence ST was quite okay as a DAC. Though I am all set on crappy audiophile gear


 
   
   
  What marketing?  Asus marketing consists of FACTS and TECHNICAL DATA,  not fancy terms which are meant to confuse amateurs or make naive people believe that you're buying some out-of-this-world product. Asus (and other big brands) back up what they say with their products. Technical data on the box is REAL technical data,  not made up.
   
  To be honest, i have yet to buy gear made by little audio companies that wont disappoint me, because i NEVER get what i pay for.  For example.... recently i bought a pro-ject headbox SEII amplifier. I paid twice as much for it as i did for my Asus D2X sound card.   The built in amp in the sound card sounds BETTER and has EQUAL POWER as the stand-alone amp, even though on paper, pro-ject amp should have at least 3 times the power,  it still cant run high ohm headphones properly.  Same goes for Fiio E9.  Same goes for Fiio E7, which costs as much as a sound card, and is inferior in every single way. It sounds worse, it has a weaker amp, and most importantly, you get no support from the manufacturer, while from Asus and similar brands you constantly get driver updates and user support.  Same goes for Nuforce UDAC2, which is considered very good for its price, but again, it is 2 or 3 times overpriced for what if offers.  And the higher we go in price range, differences in sound quality get lower, and products become more and more overpriced.
   
  You say Asus Essence ST is "okay" as a DAC.  Now, if you compare it to any stand-alone DAC that costs the same, it will blow any of them out of the water, literally, in every single measurable or subjective way.  Plus, with essense ST you get a pretty powerful amp,  excellent drivers, user interface and loads of features.
   
  What I'm trying to say is that "audiophiles" have been brainwashed so to say, and as soon as they see a brand name of some sorts, they automatically assume its going to be mass-produced crap. When they see some DYI product made by some guy in his basement and then sold for 1000$ , they assume its going to pure awesomeness.
   
  The fact is, most audio gear is GREATLY overpriced. I dont think that there are any other products in the world of electronics that are quite as overpriced as audio gear. I mean... headphone amps that costs a couple of thousands of dollars... come on...


----------



## Willakan

I agree with some of what you said, but why attack Fiio? Their products generally do perform well and are reasonably priced.


----------



## leeperry

derbigpr said:


> The fact is, most audio gear is GREATLY overpriced. I dont think that there are any other products in the world of electronics that are quite as overpriced as audio gear. I mean... headphone amps that costs a couple of thousands of dollars... come on...


 
   
  Well, my friend...I already raised this question publicly here on head-fi: http://www.head-fi.org/t/472214/are-most-headamps-overpriced-cmoy-s
   
  Facts are that:
  -it's a nice market, and ppl gotta make a living
  -they more or less make a 400% markup on the gear they sell, then the resellers make another 100% markup...so it sells for $1K, they sell it for $500 to the reseller and it costs them $125 to make. Is that overpriced? Who's gonna do the R&D and assembly/soldering then? go ahead, DIY your own amp from scratch 
  -RMA costs, and so do local taxes etc etc
  -the case usually costs as much as what's in it
   
  Overpriced compared to what exactly? I think you got my point ^^
   
  Asus will sell far less of that Essence One than their latest mobos for sure. I personally think they went over the top w/ the 11 opamps design, but you never know! At least they went as "discrete" as can get: 2 dual opamps for each DAC chip polarity, so that's already 4 dual opamps just to filter the dual mono DAC output...then you got opamps used for line-out level amplification, headphones amplification, etc etc. The only thing that's for sure is that replacing its cheapo 5532/4562 by audiophile chips surely's gonna take a lot of soldering and additional expenses(please, no opamp trolling).
   
  A friend of mine who's a major Asus fanboy is gonna buy it as soon as it hits Western Europe anyway, and I'm quite sure that he'll let me roll opamps in it like there's no tomorrow


----------



## mikeaj

oqvist said:


> Asus know marketing much better then the small homebrew companies. More importantly they have much more funds for PR. Also it´s not like if you win head-fi you win the world . This is not the market Asus really want to win it´s the mass consumer market. Gamers that realize they want good audio for example will have an easier time see oh well Asus is nice rather then this company I have never heard of and there is never any adds for.
> 
> Would be fun to hear one the Asus Essence ST was quite okay as a DAC. Though I am all set on crappy audiophile gear




Hm yes, I was talking about marketing towards the audiophile market, which I'm not entirely sure Asus is that interested in anyway, aside from this new Essence One and possibly the ST/STX. Certainly Asus sells a much higher volume of product from the traditional consumer markets.



willakan said:


> @MikeAJ
> I suppose it isn't that expensive compared with other fields, but it still seems to be pricey enough for some very prominent designers/companies, whose products feature prominently on here, to not bother.




I disagree. Even without the "proper" equipment like an AP, you can still get some meaningful data. I mean, about $500 will buy you a reasonable sound card and a cheap oscilloscope. You could run all sorts of tests via line out and line in and then perform some spectral analysis of the raw data yourself (or just use other software). You can check common abnormalities on power up or power down, approximately determine max output power before clipping into various loads, check output impedance, and so on. There's always RMAA, for what (little) that's worth. With gear like that, you can't check everything, but you could learn something about a lot of audio products out there.

I think in most cases it's more about a mindset or the design-by-ear (only) philosophy, than a lack of resources.



willakan said:


> I agree with some of what you said, but why attack Fiio? Their products generally do perform well and are reasonably priced.




There's not much wrong with FiiO IMHO, but their prices in some segments aren't comparable with what you get from the likes of Asus, with the resources they have. It's not like any of the traditional PC sound card companies have a $20 portable amp or something like that though. e.g. If you don't need the transportability of the E7/E9, one of the Essence ST/STX probably has just as good an amp, if not better (IIRC both have TPA6130 outputs with around ~10 ohm output impedance to protect the chip), and has a better DAC and also a line in and other features...for around the same price.

I wonder if there's a Xonar U3 sitting on a test bench somewhere in the world...


----------



## Willakan

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> I disagree. Even without the "proper" equipment like an AP, you can still get some meaningful data. I mean, about $500 will buy you a reasonable sound card and a cheap oscilloscope. You could run all sorts of tests via line out and line in and then perform some spectral analysis of the raw data yourself (or just use other software). You can check common abnormalities on power up or power down, approximately determine max output power before clipping into various loads, check output impedance, and so on. There's always RMAA, for what (little) that's worth. With gear like that, you can't check everything, but you could learn something about a lot of audio products out there.
> 
> I think in most cases it's more about a mindset or the design-by-ear (only) philosophy, than a lack of resources.


 
  Yes, you can verify that your product actually works properly. You could even get some reasonable crosstalk/distortion/frequency response measurements, but if you're aiming for true high fidelity gear (which at the price points these people are flogging their stuff they certainly should be) you simply cannot verify things like ultra-low THD with a sound card.
  As to the "design by ear philosophy," I'm afraid I don't think that's a feasible way of designing products. There seem to be a lot of people on Head-Fi who disagree with me and I gather they're voting with their wallets. Yay for misinformation and FUD I suppose...


----------



## mikeaj

willakan said:


> Yes, you can verify that your product actually works properly. You could even get some reasonable crosstalk/distortion/frequency response measurements, but if you're aiming for true high fidelity gear (which at the price points these people are flogging their stuff they certainly should be) you simply cannot verify things like ultra-low THD with a sound card.
> As to the "design by ear philosophy," I'm afraid I don't think that's a feasible way of designing products. There seem to be a lot of people on Head-Fi who disagree with me and I gather they're voting with their wallets. Yay for misinformation and FUD I suppose...




For testing the amp section loaded, it should still not be that hard. Unless the amp is ridiculous, the performance when loaded with headphones-level impedances is not going to be beyond the capability of a decent sound card to measure.

DAC section would take a lot more work and expensive instrumentation, particularly to verify the claims being made.


----------



## khaos974

I wonder why they didn't use the PCM1792, which is the top chip of the TI DAC line, after all they used it in the Essence STX which has slightly better specs by the way. 

It would have made sense, at least in order to not have a confusing product line up, to design the Essence One to have better specs than the Essence STX.


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> I wonder why they didn't use the PCM1792, which is the top chip of the TI DAC line, after all they used it in the Essence STX which has slightly better specs by the way.
> 
> It would have made sense, at least in order to not have a confusing product line up, to design the Essence One to have better specs than the Essence STX.


 

  
  They're using dual mono-dac(pcm1795) design instead of single stereo dac..


----------



## khaos974

kn19h7 said:


> They're using dual mono-dac(pcm1795) design instead of single stereo dac..




Purely on spec, a single PCM1792 performs better than 2 PCM1795, and if they wanted to go all out, dual PCM 1792 works too.


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> Purely on spec, a single PCM1792 performs better than 2 PCM1795, and if they wanted to go all out, dual PCM 1792 works too.


 

  
  my bad ==
  just went by the datasheets and realized pcm1795 is also a stereo dac, and is compatible with pcm1792a in design. now it seems the only advantage is that it support up to 32bit resolution..


----------



## audionewbieyao

So they are using stereo dacs for single channel use?
  Will it make the dac perform better?


----------



## Modo

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The only thing that's for sure is that replacing its cheapo 5532/4562 by audiophile chips surely's gonna take a lot of soldering and additional expenses(please, no opamp trolling).


 
   
  You're doing fine on the trolling part, mate. Different chips need to work with the specific layout, not just have better specs on paper. But it's not like Asus engineers have access to high-end testing gear to check that, right?


----------



## jalyst

Anybody??
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/135#post_7735450
   
  I'm not asking folks to break their NDA's etc...
  Just thoughts on if it's likely for Asus to head in this direction w/their next rev. of ST, STX, or E1.
  Thanks very much to those who can spare a minute or two.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## leeperry

modo said:


> Different chips need to work with the specific layout, not just have better specs on paper.


 

 They would be SOIC8 and soldered if you were right. I presume that you have zero experience w/ audio opamps.


----------



## cladisch

audionewbieyao said:
			
		

> So they are using stereo dacs for single channel use?
> Will it make the dac perform better?


 
   
  Just read the datasheets:
 PCM1796/1795: stereo mode: 123 dB, mono mode: 126 dB
  PCM1792A: stereo mode: 129 dB, mono mode: 132 dB (requiring higher voltages)


----------



## kruso

I'm using a macbook air 2010. How should I connect this external DAC to my laptop?


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





kruso said:


> I'm using a macbook air 2010. How should I connect this external DAC to my laptop?


 

 Macbook air doesn't have spdif so you need to use usb


----------



## kruso

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> Macbook air doesn't have spdif so you need to use usb


 
   
  I can only find windows drivers on asus homepage. Isn't mac OS supported?


----------



## mikeaj

leeperry said:


> They would be SOIC8 and soldered if you were right. I presume that you have zero experience w/ audio opamps.




They're socketed so they are user-serviceable, which increases the value to buyers who believe they can improve the sound by changing the ICs. Since there is the perception, they will make more profits this way through greater sales. Sometimes it's possible to improve the performance (if some other components are changed as well, maybe) but most times probably not unless you're looking for more distortions or oscillation, since the circuit was designed for the original device.

Anyway, the whole "oh I know a lot more about electronics and know better than the designers, who already measured the setup and figured out what worked best" (note: to be fair, does not apply to some designers) and "maybe the designers are cheapskates using inferior parts to shave some pennies off, even though the cheaper parts often have better performance for that application" arguments are kind of played out.


----------



## leeperry

mikeaj said:


> user-serviceable


 
   
  That's a very naive view of the matter tbh. IRL, manufacturers make a 400% markup on the audio gear they sell to their resellers(who make another 100% markup). They prefer to put cheapo sounding opamps on swappable sockets to keep the price low, and opamps OCD'ed end-users like it better this way as well....try to imagine how much this thing would cost w/ 22 audiophile opamps such as OPA827/AD797B/LT1028A/ADA4627/etc.


----------



## Willakan

Quote:


leeperry said:


> That's a very naive view of the matter tbh. IRL, manufacturers make a 400% markup on the audio gear they sell to their resellers(who make another 100% markup). They prefer to put cheapo sounding opamps on swappable sockets to keep the price low, and opamps OCD'ed end-users like it better this way as well....try to imagine how much this thing would cost w/ 22 audiophile opamps such as OPA827/AD797B/LT1028A/ADA4627/etc.


  Going to have to respectfully disagree with you there. Various cheap and popular audio opamps (you know the ones to which I refer, your favourites!) measure astoundingly well, even the dual channel versions, far beyond the realms of audibility - even replacing them with more expensive models, assuming the circuit is fine with them (which seems unlikely considering the ridiculous substitutions people make) generally doesn't improve the measurements - the opamp simply isn't a "bottleneck" (not an ideal choice of words, but never mind).
   
  All more expensive opamp "rolling" does is causes potential problems. When the best-case scenario is "bugger-all happens" it's hardly an efficient way to spend your money.
  The "cost cutting building blocks" stuff is just perpetuated by various audiophile companies who want to sell you stuff. Take Burson's article on why opamps are bad. It's barely written in comprehensible English, let alone composed of plausible arguments. You can read it line by line going "unsubstantiated statement with no supporting evidence", "logical fallacy", "utter crap" and so on...


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





modo said:


> ... Different chips need to work with the specific layout, not just have better specs on paper...


 

 Like you can't tweak the layout, hurrr.  The stock layout is just what barely works with those cheapo ICs.  There's always room for improvement, but they don't bother to cut costs.  Do it yourself, in other words.


----------



## leeperry

mad max said:


> There's always room for improvement


 
  All opamps sound the same anyway, it's all placebo from delusioned audiophools. 5532 ought to be enough for anybody


----------



## Modo

Quote: 





mad max said:


> Like you can't tweak the layout, hurrr.


 

 I agree, you can, provided you have the experience, and the equipment. But that's not what I'm arguing with. The strange part is how an easy mod--just swapping one or two chips for different, _equally cheap ones_, supposedly wasn't done by the designers in the first place. Maybe in a DIY shop that would fly, but for a big manufacturer? Sounds highly implausible that they wouldn't test various parts.


----------



## Willakan

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> All opamps sound the same anyway, it's all placebo from delusioned audiophools. 5532 ought to be enough for anybody


 

 Wow, dropping to hilarious ad hominems already. And yes, it is mostly either bias from delusioned audiophools, with such exceptions as putting an opamp in that audibly complains about it and deciding oscillation is in fact musicality or something.


----------



## leeperry

willakan said:


> Wow, dropping to hilarious ad hominems already. And yes, it is mostly either bias from delusioned audiophools, with such exceptions as putting an opamp in that audibly complains about it and deciding oscillation is in fact musicality or something.


 

 The thing is that giving opinions with zero field experience trying to explain to stray sheeps that everything sounds the same(even though you've obviously never rolled opamps) doesn't make you look very knowledgeable. The opamps I roll do not oscillate, I always ask a RMA technician to check w/ his analog oscilloscope...and yes, 5532 can easily be superseded by newer designs. If one day you decide to try stuff IRL before giving opinions on internet boards, you'll realize that too ya know


----------



## Willakan

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> The thing is that giving opinions with zero field experience trying to explain to stray sheeps that everything sounds the same(even though you've obviously never rolled opamps) doesn't make you look very knowledgeable. The opamps I roll do not oscillate, I always ask a RMA technician to check w/ his analog oscilloscope...and yes, 5532 can easily be superseded by newer designs. If one day you decide to try stuff IRL before giving opinions on internet boards, you'll realize that too ya know


 
  What you are saying, as defined by current scientific thought on the subject, has no basis in reality. My "field experience" has nothing to do with your inability to separate what you heard in sighting listening tests with objective fact. Taking your ears as infallible...therein lies the route to madness.
  Oscillation was given as an obvious example, but there are a lot more things to consider, many of which are not initially obvious.
   
  I can dismiss your argument in the same way I can dismiss someone who claims that eating raspberry muffins improves treble response - there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it and any "differences" can be explained with existing scientific concepts. Both claims, despite the differences in ridiculousness, are dismissed by the same mechanism. I don't really need to hear that blueberry muffins don't influence sound to be pretty sure of it, do I?
   
  So you have something to latch onto and have a go at "1 comprehensive measurement set is worth a thousand sighted listening tests."


----------



## leeperry

Still no ETA on this thing? A friend of mine is dying to buy it, and I'm dying to try zillions opamps combinations too


----------



## anetode

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> I wonder why they didn't use the PCM1792, which is the top chip of the TI DAC line, after all they used it in the Essence STX which has slightly better specs by the way.
> 
> It would have made sense, at least in order to not have a confusing product line up, to design the Essence One to have better specs than the Essence STX.


 


  PCM 1795 is 32 bit, which is awesome because 32 is a larger number than 24 and the difference is largerer than the 3-6 dB bump in the 120+ SNR spec 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Speaking of more is better, I did try the OPA627BP (2x BrownDog'ed) over the stock opamps in the Claro Halo. There was no improvement to be heard.


----------



## khaos974

anetode said:


> PCM 1795 is 32 bit, which is awesome because 32 is a larger number than 24 and the difference is largerer than the 3-6 dB bump in the 120+ SNR spec
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You should not that not a single DAC has ever achieved a greater dynamic range than 21 effective bits in practice, 32 bit is marketing hype. I doubt it has a negative impact on the performance of the DAC, but for all purpose, it's useless.


----------



## anetode

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> You should not that not a single DAC has ever achieved a greater dynamic range than 21 effective bits in practice, 32 bit is marketing hype. I doubt it has a negative impact on the performance of the DAC, but for all purpose, it's useless.


 


  Shun the unbeliever! Shuuuun!


----------



## cladisch

leeperry said:
			
		

> Still no ETA on this thing?


 

 October in Germany: http://www.alternate.de/html/product/information/page.html?articleId=939662


----------



## cladisch

khaos974 said:
			
		

> 32 bit is marketing hype. I doubt it has a negative impact on the performance of the DAC, but for all purpose, it's useless.


 

 It has a purpose: making money.
  If Asahi Kasei makes a 32-bit DAC chip and when it's actually used, TI better makes its own 32-bit chip.
   
  I haven't seen anybody complaining that the Essence One would have been cheaper if it used PCM1796 DACs.
  (According to TI's price quotes, the difference between a PCM1796 and a PCM1795 is $1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## reiserFS

I have it on pre-order, will tell you guys once it ships.
  
  Quote: 





cladisch said:


> October in Germany: http://www.alternate.de/html/product/information/page.html?articleId=939662


----------



## trog

Hmm where i'm at we are having a major PC show in November and perhaps Asus would have a booth show casing these


----------



## Tablix

The funds are secure but the decision is not made.  I am not sure whether to pull the trigger on this piece of kit now, on pre-order, or go out and buy the TEAC UD-H01.  The list price for both is just under £300 and I have been weighing this decision up for some time and cant make my mind up.  At the moment the decision is not critical as I have a fiio device to power my cans in the short term, but I am looking to invest in some KRK monitors in the future.
   
  Any advice from the technical guru's on which looks better value on paper.  I am a relative noob when it comes to DAC's and I am not likely to ever be able to do an A/B comparison of the 2 units.  This leaves the daunting situation of buying on spec and recommendation, and with both units being relatively new to market, making that decsion is even more difficult.


----------



## airman

How come the  Europeans get every thing first. The Asus Xonar essence one is already on sale in Germany and we here in the U.S . haven't even got a ETA on this thing yet. I've got the xonar essence ST with the X6 expansion card one of my boxes  but I had to send all  the way to England to get the X6 because it's not available  in the U.S.at all. I beginning to feel like a second class citizen or something. What gives with everything going somewhere else first before it gets to  the land of the free?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





airman said:


> How come the  Europeans get every thing first. The Asus Xonar essence one is already on sale in Germany and we here in the U.S . haven't even got a ETA on this thing yet. I've got the xonar essence ST with the X6 expansion card one of my boxes  but I had to send all  the way to England to get the X6 because it's not available  in the U.S.at all. I beginning to feel like a second class citizen or something. What gives with everything going somewhere else first before it gets to  the land of the free?


 


   
  Maybe because Europe is a larger and more important market than US?   (750 vs 320 million people)
  There isnt a single reason why it should be on market in US before Europe. Unless you're joking, you're such a stereotype, thinking that US in the center of the world.


----------



## Tablix

Both ResierFs and myself have not got the option to actually BUY this unit, just preorder through ASUS suppliers, hence my reply, misquoting me is always going to get a response.  I am sure if you wanted to source this in the US you could do the same, have you treid contacting ASUS directly and asking them.  Complaining about others getting this first is a little rediculous considering you have PLENTY of local manufacturers such as iBasso or even Grado  that you can purchase equipment from without having to wait 2 months for shipping let alone the additional postage and import costs involved.  I would also assume that the actual purchase cost will be lower when you finally do have it available as the US is generally 15-20% cheaper for electrical goods, even outside audio equipment.


----------



## reiserFS

Cancelled my pre-order at Alternate and ordered at Mindfactory instead, much cheaper with 337€.


----------



## crossbone

I pre-ordered one from mindfactory, too. Now it's time to wait.


----------



## reiserFS

Mindfactory has just set the price down to 328€ and they're expecting them for the 5th October.


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





jalyst said:


> Anybody??
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/135#post_7735450
> 
> I'm not asking folks to break their NDA's etc...
> ...


 


  Started a dedicated thread for those can spare a minute
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/573650/revised-essence-st-stx-or-asus-usb-w-these-improvements#post_7785850
  Thank-you...


----------



## abjure

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Maybe because Europe is a larger and more important market than US?   (750 vs 320 million people)
> There isnt a single reason why it should be on market in US before Europe. Unless you're joking, you're such a stereotype, thinking that US in the center of the world.


 
   
  Europe is a more important market than the US in what way? Because that's where you live?
   
  Businesses use consumer markets to gauge financial importance, so here's a single reason for you.
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets
   
  It looks like you fit into the exact stereotype you're accusing someone else of, while comparing a continent to a single country.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





abjure said:


> Europe is a more important market than the US in what way? Because that's where you live?
> 
> Businesses use consumer markets to gauge financial importance, so here's a single reason for you.
> 
> ...


 
   
  First, note the smiley at the end.
   
  Second, it's not because I live in Europe, its because we in Europe don't get all the stuff before the guys in USA do,  as it was said.  In fact, we get a lot of stuff after USA, not to mention most of the gear (and roducts in general) is 2 or 3 times cheaper in USA, so there is no reason to complain just because they don't get something first.  As I said,  there is no reason whatsoever why USA would get any product before Europe or anyone else does.
   
  I don't look at Europe as a continent, I look at Europe as a European Union, something like UNITED States of America, even though its a different system, its similar in many ways. I also dont look at USA a one country, I look at it as 50 states united, each different than the other, some very very different from each other, same as countries in EU.
   
  Also, according to the data on wikipedia link that you've posted, if you just take the main countries from European Union, you have a market larger than that of USA.
   
  But, I don't want to get into politics on this forum, as we're all here for the same reason, to talk about our money eating hobbies.


----------



## JRG1990

Some sites have started listing it, http://rebelgadgets.com/product.php?ProductID=885 , it's priced at £85 .


----------



## Tablix

Quote: 





jrg1990 said:


> Some sites have started listing it, http://rebelgadgets.com/product.php?ProductID=885 , it's priced at £85 .


 


 This listing has been in place on this site for months and there are others.  Its a common marketing technique to get people on the site, the duration of the listing it has been listed as outof stock.  Companies can gain higher priority listings on search engines by using this technique prior to release, then when stock arrives they list a higher price.
   
  That retail price is absurd and is a number pulled out of thin air I am sure, try contacting them and trying to pre-order at that price and you will get told its not possible.  I have seen similar techiques used with PC equipment many times in the last 5 years and even with high end photography equipment.
   
  If you want a more realistic UK price check this site:
   
http://www.cclonline.com/product/66258/90-YAB630B-UAY0MZ/Sound-Cards/Asus-Xonar-Essence-ONE-External-USB-Soundcard/SND0031/


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





jrg1990 said:


> Some sites have started listing it, http://rebelgadgets.com/product.php?ProductID=885 , it's priced at £85 .


 


   
  I highly doubt that's correct.  It cant cost 85 pounds, no way,  it will be at least in the 250-300 range.


----------



## reiserFS

Shipment has been delayed, no word when they get the first batch yet.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Shipment has been delayed, no word when they get the first batch yet.


 


  It will worth the wait


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Shipment has been delayed, no word when they get the first batch yet.


 

 That's too bad. I'm really looking forward to more impressions and reviews of this product because feature wise it would be the perfect replacement for my current DAC + amp setup (I want good single box solution).


----------



## khaos974

Photos of the Audio Precision test report courtesy of http://www.on-mag.fr/index.php/topaudio/tests-auditions/10599-asus-xonar-essence-one--dac-usb-bit-perfect-et-ampli-casque-audiophile-a-petit-prix


----------



## benjsu

Anyone have any idea what the ETA is on this or whey it's been so delayed.  This thread was started half a year ago... :-/


----------



## khaos974

RMAA test results of the Essence One Here http://www.hdfever.fr/2011/10/10/comparatif-de-circuits-analogiques-asus-xonar-hdav-vs-dac-asus-essence-one-vs-oppo-bdp-93eu-signature-nuforce/
  The page is in French but Google Translate should do the trick, anyway, there are three tab in the middle of the page and the graphs are displayed on the second tab which is titled "Analyse des circuits analogiques"
   
  IMHO, that doesn't look impressive with the Essence One being outperformed by the Xonar HDAV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Of course, I'm still waiting for more independent results, especially since the AP report never included the reference voltage even of the measure were expressed in dBr.


----------



## Arnotts

Another review popped up a few days ago:
   
wwenze.blogspot.com/2011/10/asus-xonar-essence-one.html


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> RMAA test results of the Essence One Here http://www.hdfever.fr/2011/10/10/comparatif-de-circuits-analogiques-asus-xonar-hdav-vs-dac-asus-essence-one-vs-oppo-bdp-93eu-signature-nuforce/
> The page is in French but Google Translate should do the trick, anyway, there are three tab in the middle of the page and the graphs are displayed on the second tab which is titled "Analyse des circuits analogiques"
> 
> IMHO, that doesn't look impressive with the Essence One being outperformed by the Xonar HDAV
> ...


 
   
  On that note, you forget that despite the Essence One being higher speced than the Xonar HDAV it is ultimately limited by USB which is pretty noisy by any sense and maybe gets worse with more devices plugged in whereas the HDAV is limited only by the mobo itself.
   
  Lastly,really, really impressive specs there, better than Benchmark DAC 1? surprise surpise. Going by the soundnews review, looks like it needs some op-amp rolling to pair with LCD 2s to sound more neutral but will pair up well with HD 800s. Not like I have either but its really a fascinating device that at a little less than half the price of DAC1, possibly outperforming it, well done ASUS.


----------



## khaos974

Quote:


firev1 said:


> On that note, you forget that despite the Essence One being higher speced than the Xonar HDAV it is ultimately limited by USB which is pretty noisy by any sense and maybe gets worse with more devices plugged in whereas the HDAV is limited only by the mobo itself.
> 
> Lastly,really, really impressive specs there, better than Benchmark DAC 1? surprise surpise. Going by the soundnews review, looks like it needs some op-amp rolling to pair with LCD 2s to sound more neutral but will pair up well with HD 800s. Not like I have either but its really a fascinating device that at a little less than half the price of DAC1, possibly outperforming it, well done ASUS.


 

 USB isn't a limitation, especilly since the Essence One has a separate power supply.
   
  The provided AP charts are impressive, but ultimately tell us nothing since the the measures are all expressed in dBr with the reference level NOT PROVIDED. The RMAA measures are fairly average, but I don' trust RMAA much. Finally, the best guest for the measured performance of the Essence One would be to look at the Stereophile measures of both the Benchmark DAC and the STX. They show that the DAC-1 measures slightly better that the STX which according to ASUS measures better than the Essence One.


----------



## Skocke

Very interested in this and also the upcoming Teac UD-H01. Finally a few reviews on this one but still nothing on the Teac I think? They are both somehow taking a very long time to rech the market.... At this stage before they have been really compared the UD-H01 has an advantage in better more discrete looks, a more simple design imo and also a little samller it seems. But how do you guys think they will compare? Seems to be the same Dac chips right so probably the headphone amplifier that will stand for the most difference?


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> Quote:
> USB isn't a limitation, especilly since the Essence One has a separate power supply.
> 
> The provided AP charts are impressive, but ultimately tell us nothing since the the measures are all expressed in dBr with the reference level NOT PROVIDED. The RMAA measures are fairly average, but I don' trust RMAA much. Finally, the best guest for the measured performance of the Essence One would be to look at the Stereophile measures of both the Benchmark DAC and the STX. They show that the DAC-1 measures slightly better that the STX which according to ASUS measures better than the Essence One.


 

 I see, but still, highly competitive pricing especially with the circuit.... 
  I think the implementation of the circuit and amp system of the Essence One versus the UD-H01 will make the ultimate difference, especially the amp section and customisability.


----------



## gkl

Any idea how would the Essence One compare to my current DAC - EMU 0404 USB? Upgrade? Sidegrade?


----------



## Skocke

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> I see, but still, highly competitive pricing especially with the circuit....
> I think the implementation of the circuit and amp system of the Essence One versus the UD-H01 will make the ultimate difference, especially the amp section and customisability.


 


  Perhaps so, I'm not that familiar with the technicalities but that migth be so. However I dont think most people will even consider cutomising their Dac/amp so to the lot that wont matter. To me its the stock sound/price that matters the most


----------



## alexk400

*WHEN THIS GOING TO BE RELEASED. I AM WAITING FOR LONG TIME. I EMAILED ASUS , NEWEGG. NO REPLY*. *ANYONE KNOWS?*


----------



## leeperry

every press review so far has complained about the C-Media USB drivers, a wild guess would be that they're working on sorting out this problem before going live.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> every press review so far has complained about the C-Media USB drivers, a wild guess would be that they're working on sorting out this problem before going live.


 


  You are very correct. I've reported the problem to them that USB implementation sucked, everything else worked fine. Actually I'm very glad that they are not releasing a beta product like A-GD does. Better resolve all the issues and then launch the final product, good move Asus.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





gkl said:


> Any idea how would the Essence One compare to my current DAC - EMU 0404 USB? Upgrade? Sidegrade?


 


  Anything from Asus Xonar series is an upgrade from EMU 0404.  Even the Xonar D2X and STX are superior to EMU in every way,  and Essence one should be in completely different league compared to D2X/STX.


----------



## kiteki

I'm interested in this for the upsampling feature, anyone know how it sounds?
   
   
  I see lots of complaints on 11 opamps, but can't we simply bypass them all, and use a different amplifier?
   
   
  If someone can recommend me a different DAC with upsampling that would be appreciated thanks.


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Anything from Asus Xonar series is an upgrade from EMU 0404.  Even the Xonar D2X and STX are superior to EMU in every way,  and Essence one should be in completely different league compared to D2X/STX.


 

  
  That sounds pretty awesome, thanks! And I hope its amp is comparable to my current one as well.
   
  Now if only this thing was available for purchase...


----------



## Mochan

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> I'm interested in this for the upsampling feature, anyone know how it sounds?
> 
> 
> I see lots of complaints on 11 opamps, but can't we simply bypass them all, and use a different amplifier?
> ...


 
   
  It seems like you could, and I don;'t get why everyone is so fixated on the opamps. This is a DAC first and foremost, right? And not an amp. It's a DAC with a headphone amp on it as a bonus. But if you have another amp, like most of us here do, it seems like this has balanced and RCA outputs to let you use whatever amp you want. The important thing is it has a nice DAC, and it has USB and SPDIF in. 
   
  I just wish it had Dolby Headphone.


----------



## kiteki

I just want to upsample youtube, movies and everything inbetween to 384kHz all the time that's all, however I need someone to tell me what the upsampling quality is like first, i.e. on paper and/or via listening.
   
  If the amp section is too basshunter, then we can a) buy a mixed bag of 11 different opamps on ebay, and tailor the sound, a lot... lol, b) use a different amp.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





gkl said:


> That sounds pretty awesome, thanks! And I hope its amp is comparable to my current one as well.
> 
> Now if only this thing was available for purchase...


 


  I dont know which amp you have, but apparently, the one in Essence one is comparable to something like Burson Audio HA-160 in terms of power, and its very close in terms of sound.


----------



## reiserFS

Some shops now list the 20th December as release date, when the heck is this thing becoming available?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Some shops now list the 20th December as release date, when the heck is this thing becoming available?


 


  It should have been released already. Apparently they cant seem to fix the issues they have with USB connection.  What i'd do is make a small PCI-E card that you would plug into the motherboard, and put RCA or some other connections on that card, to plug the Essence One into it. That way they could avoid using the USB, since it obviously sucks.


----------



## reiserFS

Or just use the digital out of your soundcard.
  
  Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> It should have been released already. Apparently they cant seem to fix the issues they have with USB connection.  What i'd do is make a small PCI-E card that you would plug into the motherboard, and put RCA or some other connections on that card, to plug the Essence One into it. That way they could avoid using the USB, since it obviously sucks.


----------



## leeperry

Apparently, the C-Media USB chip abides by the USB Audio Class 1.0 so it will do up to 24/96 w/o drivers anyway....not sure about 88.2, though.


----------



## GChiu

Is it released in the US yet? Or some international online retailer? Please do tell!
  
  Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> It should have been released already. Apparently they cant seem to fix the issues they have with USB connection.  What i'd do is make a small PCI-E card that you would plug into the motherboard, and put RCA or some other connections on that card, to plug the Essence One into it. That way they could avoid using the USB, since it obviously sucks.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





gchiu said:


> Is it released in the US yet? Or some international online retailer? Please do tell!


 


  Nope its not released yet.


----------



## Syrk

I wonder when this will ever be released...I remember Asus claiming it would be released early September some while ago.


----------



## kiteki

Asus are way too slow and having too many USB issues for anyone to take this seriously.
   
   
  Fostex HP-A8 just came outta nowhere, get that instead.


----------



## HK47

Does it have Dolby headphone?
  
  Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Asus are way too slow and having too many USB issues for anyone to take this seriously.
> 
> 
> Fostex HP-A8 just came outta nowhere, get that instead.


----------



## khaos974

Quote: 





hk47 said:


> Does it have Dolby headphone?


 

 Neither the Fostex unit nor the Asus one do.


----------



## leeperry

and the fostex will be +$1K for sure..


----------



## kiteki

Who cares, they're calling it "Epoch-making" =)


----------



## GChiu

FOSTEX looks great, but I don't think that's available either... =.=
  
  Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Asus are way too slow and having too many USB issues for anyone to take this seriously.
> 
> 
> Fostex HP-A8 just came outta nowhere, get that instead.


----------



## audionewbieyao

I was doing search today, and found a new review from China, here's the link with google translation. First page is reviewer introduction ...
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chiphell.com%2Farticle-2089-8.html
   
  Further search also found it seems available in Taiwan, which means it should be available in the US soon, crossing my fingers now.
  Check it out
http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/f29011801?u=Y8091861028


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> Neither the Fostex unit nor the Asus one do.


 


  Asus has Dolby.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Asus are way too slow and having too many USB issues for anyone to take this seriously.
> 
> 
> Fostex HP-A8 just came outta nowhere, get that instead.


 


  What do you mean "for anyone to take this seriously"?  Essence One has already been tested and proven its performance.  The reason why they dont release it yet is because they want to make sure it works perfectly trough USB before release.  In anything else, Essence One makes other devices for similar price look silly.


----------



## kiteki

I mean if you announce something in February, keep pushing forward release dates, and then say "trying to fix the USB driver" in November... people stop taking it seriously.


----------



## kiteki

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> [/] Essence One makes other devices for similar price look silly.


 

 You might be right about that, I hope you are!! It's just I need someone impartial to tell me what 11 opamps and 384kHz upsampling sounds like.


----------



## khaos974

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Asus has Dolby.


 
  Are you sure, I can't find it in the spec sheet.


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Hey Guys,
   
  While I know everyone is still waiting for the release of the One, but I was wondering if any reviewers could comment about the RCA outputs.  Specifically, according to some, the ST/STX seems to have a fairly cheap output, similar to those in low end stand alone CDP's, and a resistor that reduces sound quality.  Has the output stage been improved from an electrical and listener's perspective on the One?
   
  Also, I know that the RCA output is volume controlled but if we want to use it as a line out can we bypass the volume control to preserve optimal sound quality or do we have to set it at maximum?
   
  Hopefully, they clear up the USB issue soon, because the DAC stage looks excellent for the money.  Does anybody remember how much a dual mono DAC or thus equipped CDP was going for 5 years ago?  Hopefully, with this DAC, it means it is no longer necessary to spend so much on the digital source (I know a big call!) so a greater portion can be spent on other system components (or saved!) !!!
   
  Thanks.


----------



## sweetechos

Hi all,
   
  I'm from Taiwan and this is my first post here. I just learned there's such site from my friends.
   
  Anyways, I'm here just tell everyone that Xonar Essence One has indeed started selling in Taiwan now.
  So far the impression is that the sound quality is quite impressively good.
   
  Just be patient, I believe it's coming to other regions soon.
   
  Some has posted lengthy discussions in the forums, such as: 
http://www.pcdvd.com.tw/showthread.php?t=946352


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





sweetechos said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm from Taiwan and this is my first post here. I just learned there's such site from my friends.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Sweet, finally.   What is the price compared to other soundcard from Asus?


----------



## audionewbieyao

Nice update mate, and welcome to head-fi!
   
  I've also found a new review, share with you guys, from Singapore I guess
   
http://wwenze.blogspot.com/2011/10/asus-xonar-essence-one.html
   
*Verdict*

 The price of $699 may seem steep compared to the STX, but the chassis, power supply and control circuitry of an external product easily costs a good fraction of a complete product. Add the SPDIF inputs and digital volume control*s*, and the Essence One isn't really that expensive compared to the STX, and for the extra money you get a pair of expensive PCM1795 and some form of upsampling, courtesy of the DSP. And lets not forget the Essence One only seems expensive compared to the STX because the STX is super-cheap compared to everything else.

 It is hard to give a verdict on something that does not have an alternative for its price. It is very easy to give a verdict when its alternatives are a few times more expensive. The measurements already justify the price, and if you are a believer of measurements and/or ASUS, wants an external DAC and has SGD$700, what are you waiting for. Do consider the STX if you are cash-strapped, but in audio it costs a lot more just for that extra bit of performance, and especially if that performance is the best.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





audionewbieyao said:


> Nice update mate, and welcome to head-fi!
> 
> I've also found a new review, share with you guys, from Singapore I guess
> 
> ...


 

  
  I dont think 699 is too much this if performance is as good as it apparently is.
  And you're right about STX, its a bargain of century for $200 considering how good it is.  Its DAC section easily beats any stand-alone DAC for $200 and its headphone amp easily beats any stand-alone amp for $200.  Plus, you get excellent software and drivers, great support, proven reliability and the card itself looks and feels very expensive.


----------



## Alexk

Anything more than 399 is  junk. I really only want 32 bit  DAC not Headphone amp.  Why can't people just make external DAC circuit using sabre 32 bit chip. Why all these amp crap. Everyone have external amp.
   
  I want something to replace my azuntech prelude sound card. anyone can advise me 192khz USB input DAC , no headphone amp.
   
  Anyone used musicland 03?.


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I dont think 699 is too much this if performance is as good as it apparently is.
> And you're right about STX, its a bargain of century for $200 considering how good it is.  Its DAC section easily beats any stand-alone DAC for $200 and its headphone amp easily beats any stand-alone amp for $200.  Plus, you get excellent software and drivers, great support, proven reliability and the card itself looks and feels very expensive.


 

 Aren't those Singapore dollars? It should cost significantly less in USD.


----------



## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





audionewbieyao said:


> Nice update mate, and welcome to head-fi!
> 
> I've also found a new review, share with you guys, from Singapore I guess
> 
> ...


 
  wow this guy done a really  in depth review. The guy that unknowingly introduced me to audio years ago.


----------



## feax

I found a french review of the essence one:
   
  http://www.homemedia.fr/tests-guides/216-Asus-Essence-One-DAC-externe-0.html
   
  But there's a strange thing: when the upsampling mode is activated, the frequency response cuts at 16 or 17 Khz instead of 20 Khz
  without upsampling...


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





alexk said:


> Anything more than 399 is  junk. I really only want 32 bit  DAC not Headphone amp.  Why can't people just make external DAC circuit using sabre 32 bit chip. Why all these amp crap. Everyone have external amp.
> 
> I want something to replace my azuntech prelude sound card. anyone can advise me 192khz USB input DAC , no headphone amp.
> 
> Anyone used musicland 03?.


 


 There is no advantage to a 32 bit DAC, it's all marketing. No 32 bit DAC exceeds 24 bit true resolution, in fact they still haven't even reached the limitation of 24 bit audio though the Sabre DAC come close at about 22 bit resolution but then again so does the Burr Brown  PCM1792A in mono mode & it is a 24 bit DAC. With the Burr brown chip it is easier for the manufacturer or in some cases the consummer to configure the sound signature compared to the Sabre DAC.
   
  There is nothing in the $399 range that will exceed the specs of 24 bit audio even with a 32 bit DAC & probably never will be. It will take a massive amount of money & even better 32 bit DAC's to exceed 24 bit resolution & all of that will be for naught because the human ear won't be able to hear it anyway, it can't even hear the limits of 24 bit. The honest truth is that even if they did come up with a DAC that could exceed 24 bit resolution we are already bumping the limits of analog audio as the thermal noise of resistors (a passive componant) does not allow with current technology to exceed 24 bit resolution.


----------



## khaos974

Quote: 





feax said:


> I found a french review of the essence one:
> 
> http://www.homemedia.fr/tests-guides/216-Asus-Essence-One-DAC-externe-0.html
> 
> ...


 

 I'm far from imppressed when I see the measurements of the Essence One, I would have expected it to perform at least on the same level as the other Xonar card.


----------



## squidley

Just ordered an Asus Essence One / Asus Xonar Essence One from xPCgear.com.
   
  Google Shopping:
   
https://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Xonar+Essence+One#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=shop&source=hp&q=%22Xonar+Essence+One%22&pbx=1&oq=%22Xonar+Essence+One%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=6703l7728l1l7955l2l2l0l0l0l0l609l609l5-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=440ca46a84aed8f3&biw=1331&bih=690
   
  Update:
   
  xPCgear.com just informed me that this is actually a pre-order item, they have not received a release date from Asus, and they will update their site to mention that it is pre-order "later this afternoon." Hmm.


----------



## GChiu

Ooh~ 5% discount if order now! No "Pre-Order" language though... Please do post "Estimated ship date" when you get one! >.<
  
  Quote: 





squidley said:


> Just ordered an Asus Essence One / Asus Xonar Essence One from xPCgear.com.
> 
> Google Shopping:
> 
> ...


----------



## trazom

Hello, I found this:http://www.chiphell.com/article-2089-1.html
Translation will be welcome unless you are familiar with the Chinese.


----------



## GChiu

Check out post by audionewbieyao on Page 18.
   
  Just did a Google Shopping search, sort by highest price, and found a few more retailers now have it for order. None seem to have them "in stock" though. Anxiously waiting...
   
  Quote: 





trazom said:


> Hello, I found this:http://www.chiphell.com/article-2089-1.html
> Translation will be welcome unless you are familiar with the Chinese.


----------



## feax

The essence one appears in pre-order in this french (well known) seller:
   
  http://www.materiel.net/carte-son/


----------



## trazom

I called a materiel.net, they confirmed availability on the weekend or early next week.


----------



## reiserFS

Many online resellers now list the 22th November as shipping date.


----------



## trazom

I found this interesting little test:
http://www.homemedia.fr/tests-guides/216-Asus-Essence-One-DAC-externe-0.html
This Asus essence One  like me a lot but I'm afraid of being disappointed compared to my Essence STX mod. I do not know if the gain of musicality and investment will be better than my current sound card.


----------



## feax

Do you know if there is a media player( hdd) with a  LCD display.
  A media player which doesnt need a TV to work ?
  And specialized in music (192 Khz, 24 bits....)


----------



## audionewbieyao

Another Chinese review found:
   
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.todayav.com%2F%3Fp%3D1816
   
  original URL: http://www.todayav.com/?p=1816
   
   
   


> In summary, the ASUS Xonar Essence One worthy of its official propaganda "HiFi decoder" in the title, regardless of the quality of analog output, or headphone amplifier output quality of the HiFi (sound of, or "hard" indicators) are picked on What's wrong with not too obvious, in line with the "real reduction" requirements: neutral and transparent sound, good analytical, sense of speed and without the dynamic compression, if you must, and similar relatively high price of the decoder, then the instrument overtone, vocal finish processing of 3D sound field sense, the sound of separation still exists a certain lack of, in no special tuning on the "art" and "personality" of the place. Considering its price (4000 yuan or less), so the sound quality and provides a very practical amp features, I believe that is still relatively good value; and taking into account the background of the brand ASUS, this tuning style, you can understand, after all, ASUS PC hardware is started, have to face is the most popular users, the most popular flavors.


----------



## sheep duck

so, although it is a bit more expensive (projected) how would the quality of this unit compare to the e7/e9 combo? i am using hd650's at the moment if that matters at all.


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





audionewbieyao said:


> Another Chinese review found:
> 
> http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.todayav.com%2F%3Fp%3D1816
> 
> original URL: http://www.todayav.com/?p=1816


 
  The Google translation is awful. Anyone with some knowledge in "Chinese" care to explain their conclusion?


----------



## Andrewjiangyi

I'm not very good with all the sound terminology, but I will try my best:
   
  In conclusion, the ASUS Xonar Essence One is worthy of the claim "Hi-Fi Decoder", whether it's the analog output, the headphone output, or when using speakers, there are very little problems and distortion, and lives up to its claim of excellent sound reproduction: The sound is neutral and clear, great analytical abilities, the feel of the speed and the uncompressed sound (I can't think of a better way to translate this part). If you must compare it to another high-priced DAC, you will find that it starts to show its weakness on instruments' overtones, the processing of vocals, the soundstage, and music separation, as well as that the sound produced isn't "artistic" nor "personalized". Considering its price, the author thinks it is of great value, as it provides great audio quality and a very practical headphone amp functionality. Considering ASUS's background, the sound it produces is understandable: as ASUS started off as a PC hardware manufacturer, it has to cater to the general public, and their tastes.
   
  Hope this helps!


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





sheep duck said:


> so, although it is a bit more expensive (projected) how would the quality of this unit compare to the e7/e9 combo? i am using hd650's at the moment if that matters at all.


 
  All you really have to do if you  want improvements, is to upgrade from the E7 it self, you can use your Fiio E9 with another source. Just not with the dock, by using the Line in on the rear of the Fiio E9. There many good choices for source/DACs you could use. I know I would do just this if I had the E7 with the E9.


----------



## fomoz

Does any one know the answers to the following questions:

- Is the DAC truly balanced (i.e. does it have 2 DAC chips)?
- Is the headphone amp fully discrete?

I can't find the answers in the specs.

Thanks!


----------



## cladisch

> - Is the DAC truly balanced (i.e. does it have 2 DAC chips)?


 
   
  Yes, two PCM1795s used in balanced mono mode.
   


> - Is the headphone amp fully discrete?


 

 From the specs in the manual:
  Balanced/Unbalanced IV: NE5532
  Balanced/Unbalanced LPF: NE5532
  Current Buffer: LME49600


----------



## fomoz

cladisch said:


> Yes, two PCM1795s used in balanced mono mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right, so it's a yes and a no. Thanks, I'm going to look elsewhere then


----------



## leeperry

BTW, the manual finally shows who does what amongst the opamps: 


   
  I guess this would make a good investment for this DAC: http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-10x-AD797BR-Dual-Mono-Op-amp-module-up-NE5532-/350485764109
   
  A friend of mine placed a preorder on it, and I see that it's available in UK so I should be able to post some impressions anytime soon. He will decide whether ordering those twenty AD797B would be worth the extra expense.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> BTW, the manual finally shows who does what amongst the opamps:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Like I would buy/trust something like this from China........China!
  Bet they would also sell me ATH-M50s for $50.
   
  But they do have good feedback.


----------



## GChiu

Video review!
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6iv8HO9Pg


----------



## BingCrosby1903

I wouldn't stress too much about the head-amp being not fully discrete.  From what I saw, others can confirm, it looks like a DIP 8 per channel, i.e. two BJTs per channel, which should offer excellent performance.


----------



## trazom

Available since this morning in some French online store.


----------



## holylucifer

If you can get these at this price and is a real genuine this is very good value http://www.advancetec.co.uk/acatalog/Asus-Xonar-Essence-One-Hi-Fi-USB-Digital-to-Analog-Converter-Headphone.html#a31081 .


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





holylucifer said:


> If you can get these at this price and is a real genuine this is very good value http://www.advancetec.co.uk/acatalog/Asus-Xonar-Essence-One-Hi-Fi-USB-Digital-to-Analog-Converter-Headphone.html#a31081 .


 


  There's no way in the world that this is a real price.  Its either some kind of scam or a mistake.


----------



## naterofsask

wat
   
http://www.directdial.com/XONAR%20ESSENCE%20ONE.html
https://www.pcczone.com/asus-xonar-essence-one-hi-fi-audio-sound-card.html


----------



## feax

Hello,
   
   
  I received my essence one this morning.
  First, I want to warn the french customers, my device was set to 125 V.(bought  to www.materiel.net)
  So be careful before plugging it.
  there is a switch at the back of the essence one.
   
  The essence works under linux ubuntu 11.10 but i think there is no ASIO driver
   
  With upsampling, the sound is cleaner, but there is less treble.
  I use a beyerdynamic DT990 headphone (250 ohms impedance) , the volume is set at 1/4


----------



## cladisch

> First, I want to warn the french customers, my device was set to 125 V.(bought  to www.materiel.net)


 
   
  Yell at them loudly; not every customer will notice this.
   


> The essence works under linux ubuntu 11.10


 
   
  Good to know.
  To find out the actual features supported by the hardware, please show the output of "lsusb -v" for this device.
   


> but i think there is no ASIO driver


 

 The standard Linux driver has all the ASIO features.


----------



## feax

lsusb -v gives me:
   
   
  Bus 002 Device 012: ID 0b05:17a8 ASUSTek Computer, Inc.
 Device Descriptor:
   bLength                18
   bDescriptorType         1
   bcdUSB               2.00
   bDeviceClass          239 Miscellaneous Device
   bDeviceSubClass         2 ?
   bDeviceProtocol         1 Interface Association
   bMaxPacketSize0        64
   idVendor           0x0b05 ASUSTek Computer, Inc.
   idProduct          0x17a8
   bcdDevice            1.09
   iManufacturer           1 ASUS
   iProduct                2 ASUS Xonar Essence One
   iSerial                 0
   bNumConfigurations      1
   Configuration Descriptor:
     bLength                 9
     bDescriptorType         2
     wTotalLength          245
     bNumInterfaces          3
     bConfigurationValue     1
     iConfiguration          0
     bmAttributes         0xc0
       Self Powered
     MaxPower              100mA
     Interface Association:
       bLength                 8
       bDescriptorType        11
       bFirstInterface         0
       bInterfaceCount         2
       bFunctionClass          1 Audio
       bFunctionSubClass       0
       bFunctionProtocol      32
       iFunction               0
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        0
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           1
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      1 Control Device
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 9
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      1 (HEADER)
         bcdADC               2.00
         bCategory              10
         wTotalLength          256
         bmControl            0x00
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                17
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
         bTerminalID             2
         wTerminalType      0x0101 USB Streaming
         bAssocTerminal          0
         bCSourceID             16
         bNrChannels             0
         bmChannelConfig   0x00000000
         bmControls    0x0040
           Cluster Control (read-only)
         iChannelNames           0
         iTerminal               0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                12
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
         bTerminalID             7
         wTerminalType      0x0605 SPDIF interface
         bAssocTerminal          0
         bSourceID              12
         bCSourceID             16
         bmControls         0x0000
         iTerminal               0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                18
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
         bUnitID                12
         bSourceID               2
         bmaControls( 0)      0x00000003
           Mute Control (read/write)
         bmaControls( 1)      0x00000000
         bmaControls( 2)      0x00000000
         iFeature                0
       AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 8
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype     10 (CLOCK_SOURCE)
         bClockID               16
         bmAttributes         0x03 Internal programmable Clock
         bmControls           0x07
           Clock Frequency Control (read/write)
           Clock Validity Control (read-only)
         bAssocTerminal          0
         iClockSource            0
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x8f  EP 15 IN
         bmAttributes            3
           Transfer Type            Interrupt
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0006  1x 6 bytes
         bInterval               4
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        1
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           0
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              5 SPDIF Output
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        1
       bAlternateSetting       1
       bNumEndpoints           2
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              0
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                16
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
         bTerminalLink           2
         bmControls           0x05
           Active Alternate Setting Control (read-only)
           Valid Alternate Setting Control (read-only)
         bFormatType             1
         bmFormats               1
           PCM
         bNrChannels             2
         bmChannelConfig   0x00000003
           Front Left (FL)
           Front Right (FR)
         iChannelNames           0
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 6
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
         bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
         bSubslotSize            2
         bBitResolution         16
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x06  EP 6 OUT
         bmAttributes            5
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               Asynchronous
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0068  1x 104 bytes
         bInterval               1
         AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
           bLength                 8
           bDescriptorType        37
           bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
           bmAttributes         0x00
           bmControls           0x00
           bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
           wLockDelay              0
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x86  EP 6 IN
         bmAttributes           17
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Feedback
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0004  1x 4 bytes
         bInterval               4
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        1
       bAlternateSetting       2
       bNumEndpoints           2
       bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
       bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
       bInterfaceProtocol     32
       iInterface              0
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                16
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
         bTerminalLink           2
         bmControls           0x05
           Active Alternate Setting Control (read-only)
           Valid Alternate Setting Control (read-only)
         bFormatType             1
         bmFormats               1
           PCM
         bNrChannels             2
         bmChannelConfig   0x00000003
           Front Left (FL)
           Front Right (FR)
         iChannelNames           0
       AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
         bLength                 6
         bDescriptorType        36
         bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
         bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
         bSubslotSize            4
         bBitResolution         24
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x06  EP 6 OUT
         bmAttributes            5
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               Asynchronous
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x00d0  1x 208 bytes
         bInterval               1
         AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
           bLength                 8
           bDescriptorType        37
           bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
           bmAttributes         0x00
           bmControls           0x00
           bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
           wLockDelay              0
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x86  EP 6 IN
         bmAttributes           17
           Transfer Type            Isochronous
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Feedback
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0004  1x 4 bytes
         bInterval               4
     Interface Association:
       bLength                 8
       bDescriptorType        11
       bFirstInterface         2
       bInterfaceCount         1
       bFunctionClass          3 Human Interface Device
       bFunctionSubClass       0 No Subclass
       bFunctionProtocol       0 None
       iFunction               0
     Interface Descriptor:
       bLength                 9
       bDescriptorType         4
       bInterfaceNumber        2
       bAlternateSetting       0
       bNumEndpoints           1
       bInterfaceClass         3 Human Interface Device
       bInterfaceSubClass      0 No Subclass
       bInterfaceProtocol      0 None
       iInterface              0
         HID Device Descriptor:
           bLength                 9
           bDescriptorType        33
           bcdHID               1.00
           bCountryCode            0 Not supported
           bNumDescriptors         1
           bDescriptorType        34 Report
           wDescriptorLength      24
          Report Descriptors:
            ** UNAVAILABLE **
       Endpoint Descriptor:
         bLength                 7
         bDescriptorType         5
         bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
         bmAttributes            3
           Transfer Type            Interrupt
           Synch Type               None
           Usage Type               Data
         wMaxPacketSize     0x0010  1x 16 bytes
         bInterval               4
 Device Qualifier (for other device speed):
   bLength                10
   bDescriptorType         6
   bcdUSB               2.00
   bDeviceClass          239 Miscellaneous Device
   bDeviceSubClass         2 ?
   bDeviceProtocol         1 Interface Association
   bMaxPacketSize0        64
   bNumConfigurations      1
 Device Status:     0x0001
   Self Powered


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





feax said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> I received my essence one this morning.
> ...


 

 A quick question - do you have speakers plugged in it as well? I'd like to know if they are completely silent if the volume on the Essence One speaker output is set to zero. I plan on having both a headphone and my speakers plugged in at all times so that I can easily switch between them by simply turning the respective volume knob to 0.


----------



## TheGomdoRi

I'll just leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd94WYRkaj4&feature=channel_video_title

 NCIX's Asus Xonar Essence One Unboxing


----------



## reiserFS

Many German online retailers now list it as "In Stock".


----------



## feax

Quote: 





gkl said:


> A quick question - do you have speakers plugged in it as well? I'd like to know if they are completely silent if the volume on the Essence One speaker output is set to zero. I plan on having both a headphone and my speakers plugged in at all times so that I can easily switch between them by simply turning the respective volume knob to 0.


 


  I can't tell you this, because I only use the headphone.


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





feax said:


> I can't tell you this, because I only use the headphone.


 

 Too bad. I hope someone else will have the same setup. 
   
  Is it at least dead silent when the volume knob is all the way down?


----------



## feax

yes , no sound when the volume knob is down.
  And there is some "margin", the sound is off and then the volume knob is completely down.
  (plugged with usb)


----------



## leeperry

So the front volume pots are digital after all?
   


purpleangel said:


> Like I would buy/trust something like this from China........China!


 

 Every opamp roller has bought stuff from this seller, he's very serious...this said, my fav opamp these days is OPA1641...good thing it's cheap coz my friend would need 22 of them, and the day they'll all have to be soldered on DIP8 dual adapters I'll most likely play dead


----------



## isleofgeorge

Hi guys,
   
  Does any knows if you can route different signals to the headphone and to the speakers? I mean if is this a two channel sound card or just single? Wanna use it with my dj controller and have the speakers out as main out and the headphones out for monitor.
   
  cheers


----------



## feax

Hello,

 I made some tests with my essence one.

 The best sound I can get is under windows(vista).
 In the windows sound settings, you can adjust the usb output: 44 Khz, 96 Khz, 192 Khz...
 If you choose 192 Khz, all your music will be upsampled by the PC and sent to the essence one at 192K.
 The essence one will display the 192 K led.
 The upsampling made by the PC is better than the one made by the essence.
 But to have the best sound, you will have to use foobar2000 also.

 Under linux, I can't choose 192K, linux sends the music always at 44Khz/16 bits, so the sound
 is not as good.

 With my settings under windows the sound seems better than with the STX.

 I think the upsampling button of the essence will be useful, if you can't upsample with the PC,
 and for old recordings.


----------



## cladisch

isleofgeorge said:
			
		

> Does any knows if you can route different signals to the headphone and to the speakers? I mean if is this a two channel sound card or just single?


 

 This device uses four channels internally, but this is only for the balanced outputs which have positive/negative signals for both left/right channels.
  The external input always uses one stream with two channels.


----------



## cladisch

feax said:
			
		

> The upsampling made by the PC is better than the one made by the essence.


 
   
  What kind of better? Subjectively, or did you measure it somehow?
   


> Under linux, I can't choose 192K, linux sends the music always at 44Khz/16 bits


 
   
  This sounds as if you're using PulseAudio.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#3._Setting_the_soundcard.27s_sampling_rate_into_pulse_audio_configuration


----------



## isleofgeorge

If it is 2x2 channel internally and I am feeding it through the usb port, it should be possibel i suppose.


----------



## reiserFS

Mine has just been shipped, I can tell you guys more in 1-2 days.


----------



## cladisch

isleofgeorge said:
			
		

> If it is 2x2 channel internally and I am feeding it through the usb port, it should be possibel i suppose.


 

 The descriptors say "bNrChannels  2".
  Furthermore, the CMI6631 won't be connected with more than one I²S stereo output to the rest of the device.


----------



## feax

Quote: 





cladisch said:


> What kind of better? Subjectively, or did you measure it somehow?
> 
> 
> This sounds as if you're using PulseAudio.
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#3._Setting_the_soundcard.27s_sampling_rate_into_pulse_audio_configuration


 


  yes, subjectively, there's a big difference beetween the 2 oversampling..


----------



## morfeeus

Utilizing the coaxial RCA analog output, I can see there are 4 swappable sockets for replacement in this path. Question: Is is possible to mix and match different opamps along this path. eg. Analog Devices and T.I. Burr Brown together???


----------



## dynamics

Wow.  I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread.  I have an STX and love it, but I was thinking of upgrading to an external DAC and Headphone Amp.  I almost pulled the trigger on a couple of them.  I'm glad I didn't.  I am very excited to get my hand on this as soon it's released.  I hope it's before the end of the year so it will be a nice gift for me before the end of the year .  I know it's been asked several times already, but does anyone know any more updates about the official release?


----------



## reiserFS

It's shipping in Germany right now.
  
  Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Wow.  I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread.  I have an STX and love it, but I was thinking of upgrading to an external DAC and Headphone Amp.  I almost pulled the trigger on a couple of them.  I'm glad I didn't.  I am very excited to get my hand on this as soon it's released.  I hope it's before the end of the year so it will be a nice gift for me before the end of the year .  I know it's been asked several times already, but does anyone know any more updates about the official release?


----------



## morfeeus

If you are located in North America its available here...    http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=111134424&vpn=XONAR%20ESSENCE%20ONE&manufacture=Asus
                                                                    and here.........http://www.pccanada.com/viewitem.asp?id=36878


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> It's shipping in Germany right now.


 


  Great.  I hope that will follow here in the US as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## feax

With this link:  http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/pulseaudio

 I can get the 192 Khz, 24 bits under ubuntu with these settings in the file  /etc/pulse/daemon.conf  :

 resample-method = speex-float-8
 default-sample-format = s24be
 default-sample-rate = 192000

 The essence one displays the 192K led but it'not easy to hear a
 difference when upsampling under ubuntu.

 these settings should work with the asus essence STX also.

 the upsampling made by the PC eats some CPU, if  resample-method = speex-float-8   is too much,  try   resample-method = speex-float-5   or less


----------



## dynamics

Google says these stores have it:  http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=asus+essence+one&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6105569936458326818&sa=X&ei=0a3STqaaIsKEsgKqwMnNDg&ved=0CFwQ8wIwBQ
   
  I just ordered one from thenerds.net website.  I'll wait and see if it gets shipped out.


----------



## Gabrielisc

Live in Australia, got my Essence one earlier today with my new AKG Q701 
  loving it so far, def enough power to amp it, cant give you guys anything solid as im def not that experienced in audiophile goods.
   
  Anyways, got a question.
   
  I can either play music via 192KHz @ 24bit or Bit-Perfect - using asus ASIO drivers @ 24 bit, 44KHz.
   
  which should i be doing?
   
  Also which program do you guys recommend using, foobar is a bit too clunky for me, winamp doesnt seem to be able to use the asus asio driver without crashing pretty much.


----------



## Broken Arrow

i really like jriver mediacenter 17
   
   
  http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/channels/v17/stable/MediaCenter170038.exe


----------



## feax

hello,

 How do you choose the bitperfect mode ?
  Do you use windows 7 ?
   
   
  Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> Live in Australia, got my Essence one earlier today with my new AKG Q701
> loving it so far, def enough power to amp it, cant give you guys anything solid as im def not that experienced in audiophile goods.
> 
> Anyways, got a question.
> ...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





feax said:


> hello,
> 
> How do you choose the bitperfect mode ?
> Do you use windows 7 ?


 

 By using the ASIO bitperfect driver.


----------



## feax

Quote: 





robscix said:


> By using the ASIO bitperfect driver.


 


  Is it automatic ?
  I use the asus driver under vista
  I tried some 192K/24bits flac files, and 88k/24bits flac files, but I've never seen the bitperfect led light on....


----------



## feax

It's ok, I managed to make it work with foobar and JRIVER media player
   
  I installed a plugin ASIO in foobar +some settings and some settings for JRIVER.


----------



## Gabrielisc

you have to choose ASIO Asus essence one driver on the media player you are using
   
  so for example. jriver worked much better for me than foobar, foobar seemed to cause alot of clicking and unseemless moving of the track or between tracks.
  Jriver did this seemlessly and is quite nice as an interface anyways.
   
  once you have changed the playback to be via asio the bit perfect led should turn on, and it will sound different...
   
  anyways as expected with anyone who buys equipment, after spending that much cash you kinda have to love it, but honestly, ive listened to quite a few headphones (T1, 990, 880, Audeze LCD-2, AD900, HD850, HD650) and the AKG Q701 seems like a really good combo with the asus essence one.


----------



## leeperry

apparently it can do up to 24/96 w/o drivers and 24/192 w/ the C-Media drivers? can it do 24/88.2 w/o drivers?


----------



## feax

Thanks for your response gabrielisc, it works now.



 @leeperry:  When you want to force the usb output (upsampling with PC) ,some frequencies are missing in the windows(vista, seven) driver:
   
  you can choose 16bits/44,1  16/48K,  16/96K, 16/192K,      24bits/44K, 24/48K, 24/96K, 24/192K
   
  The 88.2Khz and 176.4 Khz frequencies are missing.
   
  So if you want to listen to a 88.2Khz/24bits file in his native frequency, you must use the bitperfect mode (which disable the usb output forcing)


----------



## dynamics

I will have mine tomorrow .  It's on the way.


----------



## TheGomdoRi

Any comparisons vs. the STX or any other xonar series soundcard would be nice


----------



## soberspine

in the soundnews review says it is better than all other sound cards but other users opinion is always welcomed. It would be a surprise not to be better because they all come from the same manufacturer and the xonar one is more than twice the price.
  I am interested in STX vs ONE only as dac.


----------



## dynamics

I'll leave some feedback here on my opinion of the One vs STX once I get to listen to it.


----------



## misha0209

Hi all,
  Glad to see this thread is still going 
  Planning on buying this first month next year, as an upgrade to my essence st.
  I'd like to ask the happy users who got their hands on an essence one to provide some info.
  I read the review on soundnews, and it was saying the sound is warm (a good thing to pair with my q701), but it also mentioned that the highs are recessed. Now, i like my bass, but highs are important. Just how recessed are the highs compared to an essence st/stx?
  Also, is the upgrade worth it? does the thing sound better than the st/stx?
  Thanks!


----------



## feax

The sound of the essence one is a very good sound specially under windows (vista seven).
  It 's close to the stx, I even think the sound seems to be better.(44K/16bits)
   
  if you upsample , you may have a little bit less treble.
   
  But with the essence one, under windows, you can choose your sound, 4K/16bits, bitperfect, upsample with pc or with the essence,
  it will depend on your musical tastes...
   
  A friend of mine made a test with a 44K/16bits file upsampled to 192K/24bits ,with a grado RS2i headphone, and we could hear
  details in the sound that we never heard before.


----------



## misha0209

Well now, close to the stx would be bad. stx close to one, still kind of bad. better than stx would be worth the cash...
  Anybody tried some swapping a few opamps? the first thing i plan on doing will be to swap out the hedphone IV opamps with the opa827.


----------



## leeperry

misha0209 said:


> Anybody tried some swapping a few opamps? the first thing i plan on doing will be to swap out the hedphone IV opamps with the opa827.


 

 A friend of mine just got his shipping notice, so I should be able to post opamps rolling impressions soon...and yes OPA827 is on the list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This said, 22 single opamps to roll is gonna turn my head fosho


----------



## audionewbieyao

Ok, I got mine arrived at my office today, tried it immediately on my laptop but haven't changed any OPAMP and haven't compared it with my STX at home.
   
  First impression, compared with my NuForce uDAC2 HP used in office, it's really like day and night, and making uDAC2 looks like a... well, joke.
   
  Look and Feel
  The look and feel of the Essence One is solid and Asus again telling the world that they are serious about their audio line. It again comes with great craftsmanship, as pretty much all the details of the design, from package to the metal chases, has been taken cared of. It's pretty obvious that I'm sure everyone will agree on this once you all get your Essence One in hand. It's so impressive.
  It's also shown great confidence of Asus in this device, like STX/ST, it also came with the same little booklet of AP test results with gold string on it. I don't see it yet on any other vendors, not to mentioned some claimed to be hi-fi, but don't even have the testing analyzer. [I found this link after I got my uDAC2, it's really a joke.  ]
   
  Subjective Feeling
  The Essence One greatly enhanced the body of my HD650, it did the same to my borrowed K240(600ohm). Although the 2 cans were born with so much different character, but both stepped up a level compared with uDAC2, in terms of detail, body, and especially the weight of the lows. The highs are crispy but not sharp. I used volume at 9 o'clock for my HD650, and around 11 for the K240.
   
  I can't quite tell the difference between Essence One and my STX back at home yet, but one thing is for sure, the STX is more monitor style clean and crisp, and the Essence One is of a very different approach. It's also very very clean, but I can feel that Asus is trying to give it more depth and warm feeling.
   
  So far I'm very happy with it, still enjoying it in my office. Bye bye my uDAC2 HP, I will tell more after more testing and hearing.


----------



## misha0209

Thank you for the impressions!
  Can't wait for an in depth comparison to the st/stx 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Also very excited about leeperry's opamp rolling intentions! Can't wait for that post


----------



## Gabrielisc

I'd like to see what people think is best?
   
  setting the audio to 44khz/16bit (bitperfect) and then pressing the upsampling on the essence one, or upsampling via jriver or whatever to 24bit 192khz and leave upsampling off the essence one.
   
  let me know what you meant feax?
  Quote: 





feax said:


> The sound of the essence one is a very good sound specially under windows (vista seven).
> It 's close to the stx, I even think the sound seems to be better.(44K/16bits)
> 
> if you upsample , you may have a little bit less treble.
> ...


----------



## devouringone3

I don't get it... One vs. STX is supposed to be a no-brainer match. One is filled with components and priced to support the fact it should outperform the STX because that the logical reason to open your wallet to it (or at least that's what every company who seeks profit should ensure). I can understand you guys thought the STX was the best option for your computer until now (I sure think it was, but now I'd want to believe it has become the next best thing), but for the ones here who have both, how can you compare these two tritely and say they are complementary? and sometimes even consider the essence one inferior to the STX? The STX is a soundcard and the One is a headphone amplifier-more than a soundcard, it is external and independant in terms of size and power (doesn't need to fit in a computer, attached to a motherboard by PCIe), which means it allows for more components, stuff like impressive torroidal transformer and swappable opamps (overrated stuff?).
   
  Are you guys being real or is the three times cheaper STX as good, and even better if treble and details are for you? And is "warm" a quality or a preference for a headphone amp?

 I would have expected the first reviews on head-fi to be made by people who had their mind blown away by the Essence One.
   
  Can you "fix" the Essence One with better Opamps? I know for one that Asus officially came to read on forums similar to here about the most popular Opamps to factory the Essence One with so we don't have to buy it only to change opamps at first glance.
   
  And finally, what internally's been driving me mad this week, Q.: which one should I buy as my first headphone amp/DAC combo? Which one is best, frankly?... there's got to be one, but I just wish the One is because, erm, I only have a laptop, lol.
   
   
  I'll be more patient...grr... reviews will come out and I'll make myself a better opinion with more impressions from more people.


----------



## audionewbieyao

hehe.. be patient, audio is subtle when up to certain level.
  But now that I'm home listening to both my Essence One from my laptop and my STX from my PC..
   
*"MAN! I"m blown away by the Essence One"*
   
haha.. 
   
but serious, Essence One's sound is *indeed *much more polished than STX, I think it is performing superbly at it's price level. 
Also it could be that Asus has advanced their sense of hi-fi or skill or whatever after the development of STX/ST series.
   
Consider the sound/cost performance of Xonar Essence One and that of Benchmark DAC1 USB, *I think this Essence One is doing great job.*
   
Be warned, traditional hi-fi brands, a new strong competitor is coming.
Again, I will tell more after more testing and hearing.


----------



## Tablix

Also worth noting the more traditional audio brands are not slacking, they are also following this trend for mid-tier multi input dac units.  Both the TEAC UD-H01 and A-H01 are similar products in the same price range, and I would think the Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus would also be a fair contender although I am not sure how price point compairs.  I would love to see a comparison of all 3 DAC units to see which comes out on top. 
   
  I have been watching the ASUS for a long time but now I can buy it I am concerned the competition may offer similar if not better value for money, the wallet wont hold out much longer I am suffering sever upgraditus.


----------



## leeperry

tablix said:


> Also worth noting the more traditional audio brands are not slacking, they are also following this trend for mid-tier multi input dac units.  Both the TEAC UD-H01 and A-H01 are similar products in the same price range, and I would think the Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus would also be a fair contender although I am not sure how price point compairs.  I would love to see a comparison of all 3 DAC units to see which comes out on top.
> 
> I have been watching the ASUS for a long time but now I can buy it I am concerned the competition may offer similar if not better value for money, the wallet wont hold out much longer I am suffering sever upgraditus.


 

 The nice thing is that the opamps in the One are all swappable, in the Teac they've used hard soldered NJM dual opamps:
  http://174.120.226.97/~leoyeh1/vbb/showpost.php?p=150038&postcount=23
  http://www.cn.njr.com/PDF/MUSES8920_E.pdf
   
  and tbh, NJM aren't exactly famous for a stunning SQ. The first reviews of the Teac are rather bland: http://www.whathifi.com/review/teac-ud-h01


----------



## Tablix

Thats interesting, as the UK price is almost identicle, seems that ASUS has the edge.  Not had experience changing opamps, but its worth considering as the quest for audio perfection is never complete.  Wondering if the DacMagic Plus is going to be comparible, although from my research it seems to be bit more expensive than the ASUS essence one.  I dont need much more persuasion to push the buy-now button, although the kids may not be as impressed with the xmas gift as daddy


----------



## sonci

For God`s sake, how can you compare a 22opamp JokeDAC, with a product from Cambridge Audio or Teac,
  those opamp are soldered because they need to be, they fit that circuit, what you think those at Teac would spare 0.3$(cause thats manufacter price) for better opamps?
  replacing opamps could end up in a noisier enviroment, hearing artefacts and claiming of music details never heard before, like some posts above,

  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> The nice thing is that the opamps in the One are all swappable, in the Teac they've used hard soldered NJM dual opamps:
> http://174.120.226.97/~leoyeh1/vbb/showpost.php?p=150038&postcount=23
> http://www.cn.njr.com/PDF/MUSES8920_E.pdf
> 
> and tbh, NJM aren't exactly famous for a stunning SQ. The first reviews of the Teac are rather bland: http://www.whathifi.com/review/teac-ud-h01


----------



## Tablix

so why is ASUS product a JOKE DAC??? some reason or clarification to back up your claim, as the STX card appears to be good value for money.  There is a reason there are so many opamps if you look at the design of the product, having seperate paths for numerous output types allows you to fine tune each output path if you choose.  I am not claiming to be an expert, as previously stated its not something I have experiemented with in the past.  I have done plenty of background research and find no flaw in the design style other than its more costly to produce, but it also offers the user flexibility.  Having fixed opamps is better HOW?  Considering from my research, and others suggestions, the teac product uses cheaper and lesser quality components does the fact they are fixed improve them beyond a superior component?  The CA DacMagic is superior in both design and in some respects its components but also comes in much more expensive with no superior features.  I would spend the extra £50 for CA product as I trust their reputation, but I also have no issue with ASUS products as I have a laptop and soundcard made by them that have both been excellent products.  I am concerned you opinion may be audiophile elitism, because I have no reference for your own history or experience.  I am aware ASUS are not "audiophile" specialists but they also have far more buying power and R&D budget  than ANY company that specialises in this field. 
   
  I am not saying you are wrong, not at all.  I just would appreciate some information beyond your claims to help in my learning experience.  Up to now I have been more than satisfied with my Fiio system but have been searching for the next step up without spending $1000 and these three products have been on the radar, mainly for the numerous connectivity options.  Any firm information would be appreciated, as I like to make informed decisions before parting with hard earned money.  I am not playing favourites in any way either, but I have read some negative comments on the teac system after some links provided here, and there is very little impartial information on any of these options.


----------



## leeperry

> Originally Posted by *Tablix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> There is a reason there are so many opamps if you look at the design of the product, having seperate paths for numerous output types allows you to fine tune each output path if you choose.


 

 Yes, Asus went as discrete as you can get with opamps...when some companies use a voltage output DAC(that essentially has a built-in I/V stage), Asus allow you to finetune the sound to your taste at every stage(and all in dual-mono at that!): I/V, line-out level amplification of the I/V, unbalanced & balanced outputs, voltage regulation to feed the headamp.
   
  Surely, it will cost quite a bit to replace the stock jellybeans with superior chips(such as OPA827, AD797 etc) but I guess ppl need to realize that audiophile gear is a niche market, and usually the reseller networks make a 50% markup and the manufacturer itself makes a 400% markup, because it has to pay for R&D/RMA/taxes....so it's better for everyone that they ship w/ jellybean opamps so 1) the casual audiophile is still plenty happy 2) the OCD'ed audiophile can color the sound the exact way he likes.
   
  "Neutrality" doesn't exist, it's a fairy tale for little children....even $3K DAC's are colored, everything colors the sound. This whole hobby boils down to finding a color you like, and when you have cheapo hard soldered opamps from NJM like in the Teac, well....you're basically SOL, just like the what*hifi review pinpointed. NJM cannot compete w/ TI and ADI when it comes to audiophile opamps, in many ppl's opinion at least ^^


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Tablix, I agree, at those price points I would rather have the opamps in machined sockets. 
  Granted the unit does have many opamp BUT you only change the one for the path you are using if you want to use your own units.
  The unit has 3 distinct audio paths, Balanced, unbalanced and head amp.
   
  Now I feel like doing some opamp testing!


----------



## sonci

When in the world an audiophile knows what to hear,
  I want my system to sound as close as possible to what the master engineer had in mind, NOT to make my own music,
  We can try to match speaker, amplifiers, preamp to correct the sound to our like, I`m ok with that, the Asus box can make beautiful music, but its not an audiophile DAC,
   
  I think they tried to make an audiophile Dac,  for the budget of pc users, but since that is impossible, thay cheated but putting swappable opamps,
  so, you dont like the sound? its ok just replace the chips, yo`ll find smth you like in the end,
  or you can use equalizers plugins for free,
  while this is ok for a soundcard of  a max of 200$, inside a noisy pc, you`d expect a bit more for a external DAC,
  anyway, in an audio circuit, replacing cheap opamps with better ones it doesn`t mean for sure better sound, its hardly true for audio capacitors,


----------



## Tablix

Quote: 





sonci said:


> When in the world an audiophile knows what to hear,
> I want my system to sound as close as possible to what the master engineer had in mind, NOT to make my own music,
> We can try to match speaker, amplifiers, preamp to correct the sound to our like, I`m ok with that, the Asus box can make beautiful music, but its not an audiophile DAC,
> 
> ...


 


 "I want my system to sound as close as possible to what the master engineer had in mind, NOT to make my own music"  You can NEVER know this unless you were in the studio, and using this as an argument further worries me that you are making claims with no backing. 
   
  Define what an audiophile DAC is, the data provided by ASUS is more than most producers of "audiophile" equipment offer the end user.  I can check all data and measurements and it measures pretty close to much more expensive DAC's as standard.  The more you post the more I feal you are biased against this product just because of the manufacturer, you have yet to provide any convincing argument to persuade me otherwise. 
   
  While I am not arguing you can get a better DAC, my argument is that for the money there are very few if ANY competitors.  I already stated that the Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus was similar and probably superior BUT it costs an extra £50 or $75, which is another 15% of the cost just to have an "audiophile" manfacturer.
   
  I know it seems I am trolling for an argument, but I just find that your claims of how this product is not worth the money difficult to swallow.


----------



## ajreynol

I'll be in for one when Amazon themselves or J&R stock it.
   
  Hopefully by then, 6moons will have reviewed it as well.
   
  I haven't read anything about compatibility with Macs...is it?


----------



## GChiu

Amazon did. I think I just took the last one "Sold by Amazon". More will be in stock though. ;P
  Beach Audio also carries a few units at a time on Amazon. Just check-in early in the morning. 
  
  Quote: 





ajreynol said:


> I'll be in for one when Amazon themselves or J&R stock it.
> 
> Hopefully by then, 6moons will have reviewed it as well.
> 
> I haven't read anything about compatibility with Macs...is it?


----------



## TheGomdoRi

Pretty tempted to get one lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but gotta wait for more impressions! (Especially the STX vs. One)


----------



## tmars78

Quote: 





tablix said:


> "I want my system to sound as close as possible to what the master engineer had in mind, NOT to make my own music"  You can NEVER know this unless you were in the studio, and using this as an argument further worries me that you are making claims with no backing.
> 
> Define what an audiophile DAC is, the data provided by ASUS is more than most producers of "audiophile" equipment offer the end user.  I can check all data and measurements and it measures pretty close to much more expensive DAC's as standard.  The more you post the more I feal you are biased against this product just because of the manufacturer, you have yet to provide any convincing argument to persuade me otherwise.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with you fully. I think Sonci is just mad that a company usually known for computer parts is treading on "sacred territory". Its that type of elitism that turns people off from the audio world.


----------



## dynamics

I received my Essence One the other day and didn't have much of chance to listen to it.  It took me a while to get everything setup.  My version came with power cables that were not compatible with US power outlets.  I was fortunate I had a brand new power cable laying around the house and didn't have to go to the store to get one.  I hooked up all the cables and plugged everything in.  I went straight to the Asus website and downloaded the latest drivers. I started playing some songs and I was not happy at all with what I was hearing.  I was thinking to myself I just downloaded the latest drivers and is this how ****ty this thing sounds?  I remember reading a review and how this was almost not listenable through the USB connection.  That's how I had mine hooked up to my PC.  It hit me I needed to upgrade the firmware...the Asus website has the newest firmware drivers, but not the programs required to execute the firmware or at least I couldn't find it there.  After searching on Google I was finally able to find the firmware programs to execute the firmware updates.
   
  This will update the Audio Chip F/W (version 0109):
  http://www.driversdown.com/drivers.asp?ID=122074&brNum=3&show=0
   
  This will update the Essence One F/W (version 1.25):
  http://www.driversdown.com/drivers.asp?ID=122075&brNum=3&show=0
   
  Both of them have the firmware and the programs required to run them.
   
  I updated the firmware and was finally able to do some listening.  I was crossing my fingers that would fix the sound issue -- I began playing my tracklist and boy...that magically transformed the sound.  It was absolute bliss.  A lot of my favorite songs it was like listening to them for the first time again at the new details I was hearing.  Essence One is definitely in different category when compared to the STX and well worth the money.  Bass is tight and punchy, STX was kind of lean on the bass department, mids are a lot cleaner, and the highs are great as well.  This DAC is audiophile grade for sure...you hear the instrument separation and vocals.  The overall sound is a lot more realistic and live sounding than the STX.  It handles all types of music with ease.  It feels like you are in the same room and listening to the musician perform live.  I'm definitely blown away by the sound quality of the Essence One.  Those that plan to get it make sure to update the firmware, and get the latest drivers from the Asus website and listen to the Essence One come live.
   
  Anyone want to buy my STX? Hehe .


----------



## dynamics

I can actually finally listen to music at a low volume and enjoy it.  Instead of constantly having to adjust the volume.  I'm very impressed so far.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Interesting, I upgraded the FW all on their support site. You sure you've checked it out on the official support site?
   
http://support.asus.com/download.aspx?SLanguage=en&p=21&m=Xonar+Essence+One&hashedid=r1OYJw1GHdZGIqQl
   
   
   
 *11 files found *
 [size=medium][/size]
 [size=medium] 


  AUDIO (1)[/size]

 [size=medium] 


  Firmware (2)

Version  0109​ ​
 
Description​USB FW Ver.0109 (6631-0109-EssenceOne-ALL.hex)
 1. Fix: noise issue.


 Please first install the driver correctly before F/W update.
 please also read the update guide which is attached in update utility.​File Size​
 15,88 (KBytes) 2011.11.04  update
Download from​






 Global (DLM)  |  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Global  | 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 China ​
   ​
 

Version  1.25​ ​
 
Description​MCU FW Ver.1.25 (GPIO_Demo_20110930_V1.25.bin)
 1. Fix: cannot play back ASIO files issue.
 2. Add Input Source function.

 Please first install the driver correctly before F/W update.
 please also read the update guide which is attached in update utility.​File Size​
 4,35 (KBytes) 2011.11.04  update
Download from​






 Global (DLM)  |  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Global  | 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 China ​
   ​
 

[/size]

 [size=medium] 


  Utilities (1)[/size]

 [size=medium] 


  Manual (7)[/size]


----------



## devouringone3

GREAT, the STX was supposedly quite something in itself, and hard to beat too, the reviews were finding it quite stellar enough. I'm happy ASUS surpassed themselves.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





audionewbieyao said:


> Interesting, I upgraded the FW all on their support site. You sure you've checked it out on the official support site?
> 
> http://support.asus.com/download.aspx?SLanguage=en&p=21&m=Xonar+Essence+One&hashedid=r1OYJw1GHdZGIqQl
> 
> ...


 


  Yes, I was on their official site.  I found the utility for the Essence One firmware.  But I couldn't find the utility to execute the firmware for the USB issue.  It uses a different firmware utility.  Either way I was getting impatient and decided to Google it .


----------



## audionewbieyao

hum... they must be changing or doing something there, cause I saw 2 utilities few days ago and downloaded it before I got my Essence One.
  One is for FW update, one is for MCU update.
   
  Anyway, glad to hear you get it fixed.


----------



## dynamics

How do you guys have the settings setup for the Essence One so far?  Are you upsampling everything to 192hz/24bit, bit perfect, or just sticking to 44.1hz/16bit?
   
  I don't have any high resolution files.  All my music is pretty much 16 bit, 44.1hz.  Do you recommend I upsample or leave it here?


----------



## Gabrielisc

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> How do you guys have the settings setup for the Essence One so far?  Are you upsampling everything to 192hz/24bit, bit perfect, or just sticking to 44.1hz/16bit?
> 
> I don't have any high resolution files.  All my music is pretty much 16 bit, 44.1hz.  Do you recommend I upsample or leave it here?


 

 Ok so from what I understand so far.
   
  Using foobar - play all lossless (which will be 44.1khz/16bit) leave windows playback settings at 44.1khz/16bit and make sure you use the Asus essence ASIO driver.
  only issue is - this only works on USB, cant get it working on SPDIF.
  So basically you will see bit perfect and 44.1khz light on... then press the upsample on the asus.. this will use the asus upsampler to get 352.8KHz via hardware n not using software upsamplers.
   
  If anyone figures out how to run ASIO via SPDIF using the essence one let me know (im hoping i wont have to use the asio4all stuff, cause asus has its own asio driver)
  Also if anyone knows what to set the usb asio driver settings to (16/24/32bit and what latency (10ms-80ms)?
   
  The other option is, use WASAPI SPDIF, can someone confirm that using WASAPI and ASIO is the same? cause it sounds different when i test it, I just cant tell if im just bsh*tting myself or not.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Essence One is definitely in different category when compared to the STX and well worth the money.  Bass is tight and punchy, STX was kind of lean on the bass department, mids are a lot cleaner, and the highs are great as well.  This DAC is audiophile grade for sure...you hear the instrument separation and vocals.


 

  
  I told you guys this *2 months* ago!
  Essence One is in another, much higher league than ST / STX, it actually sounds 80% as a Burson HA-160D, Burson is still better in all areas, but at ~ 500 USD price of the Essence One I don't see something beating it.


----------



## Gabrielisc

Cost me $345AUD ($370USD) here in Australia, now its back up to $399AUD (basically $420USD)
   
  Totally justifiable at that price.


----------



## Mutsu

I've just placed an order for an Essence One as an upgrade from an STX. I'll of course post my observations after some listening 
   
  I wanted to ask any current owners how long the USB cable is.
   
  My current set up has my PC in the lounge with headphones/amp connected via RCA from my STX. If sound from the USB of the Essence One is superior to both STX > Amp (via RCA) and STX > Essence One (Via Optical out) > Amp, then I will move my PC from my lounge and use my laptop connected to the Essence One via USB. But the cable will need to be long enough


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> How do you guys have the settings setup for the Essence One so far?  Are you upsampling everything to 192hz/24bit, bit perfect, or just sticking to 44.1hz/16bit?
> 
> I don't have any high resolution files.  All my music is pretty much 16 bit, 44.1hz.  Do you recommend I upsample or leave it here?


 


  Personally I just play the files as is using my Foobar2000 using bit-perfect.
  cause nothing can disturb my music listening, no MSN ding-dong, or stupid flash ads  screem out of no where in the background....
  I thought bit-perfect is good enough for me at least until now.
   
   
  Arrrrr...hummm...... .. d(^_^)b   (enjoying Bach cello Prelude 1 now, I just love that volume feeling of cello from Essence One, best moment of the day.....)


----------



## Zybane

Well, I got the "One" in today. Some initial thoughts:
   
  Beautiful Asus packaging as always. This is one solid piece of equipment. Nice brushed aluminum. One disappointment though is that while the knobs are nice aluminum, the buttons are silver plastic. The power button seems to operate normally when it is in the "off" position, but when in the "on" position it seems to wiggle around and not be secure. Not sure if that is a design error, manufacturing error or assembly error. But it is definitely an error! The power button still functions though so it is more of a quality control issue. 
   
  I also noticed the power supply input on the back was on the 230v setting. In the box came two different power plugs. One each of the main type used in Europe and no North American plug. Not really a problem for me as I have a million power cords, but it shows that these North American units where likely diverted from Europe without that consideration. 
   
  Some more tests this weekend. 
   
  BTW: does anyone else's power button flop around in the "on" position. Pretty big oversight IMO.


----------



## Lloyd84

Quote: 





zybane said:


> BTW: does anyone else's power button flop around in the "on" position. Pretty big oversight IMO.


 


  Mine has a small amount of wiggle, no floppiness though.  I did notice the volume knobs have a LOT of play in them.  Have to say they look nicer than they feel. :/


----------



## feax

I listen with bitperfect .If it's a bad quality recording, I can use upsampling.
   
  The buttons of my essence one are ok, the volume knob are ok, too.
  The two volume knobs are numeric knobs.(you can feel it when you turn the knob)
   
  The only problem I  had, is that my essence one was set to 110V , I didn't see it and I blew the two fuses
  at the back of the essence.
  The french essence one has two  T1AH250VP  fuses.
  I replaced them with two T1A250V fuses, it's ok.  (T means temporised, A amperes, V volts)
   
  But I dont know what H and P mean, does anybody know ?


----------



## Zybane

I must be blind. Where is this ASIO driver for the Essence one? It only shows one driver on the web site and I cannot get bit-perfect to work. 
   
  If it is on the CD, why the heck is it not on the support page? I don't have an old CD player anymore. Who uses these old disc included in the packaging. 
   
  Could someone email the ASIO 2.2 driver for the Essence One to: darlo991@hotmail.com?


----------



## feax

the driver on the website of asus is the asio driver.
   
  But you must install foobar, then download the asio plugin (for foobar) on the website of foobar, install it, and make some settings in foobar to make it work.
  You can also download another media player, JRIVER media player , make some settings in it and it will work.


----------



## Zybane

Thanks, got it working with Foobar. BTW this Essence One sounds awesome. 
   
   Is there any way to force all of the audio that comes out of your computer to be bit-perfect? Games etc? Is it better to let the Windows 7 do the upsampling or the Essence One?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> Ok so from what I understand so far.
> 
> Using foobar - play all lossless (which will be 44.1khz/16bit) leave windows playback settings at 44.1khz/16bit and make sure you use the Asus essence ASIO driver.
> only issue is - this only works on USB, cant get it working on SPDIF.
> ...


 
  If you use another device to send S/Pdif to the E1 it would only show the frequency of the audio coming in.
  
   


  Quote: 





zybane said:


> Thanks, got it working with Foobar. BTW this Essence One sounds awesome.
> 
> Is there any way to force all of the audio that comes out of your computer to be bit-perfect? Games etc? Is it better to let the Windows 7 do the upsampling or the Essence One?


 

 No way to make all audio from the system to be bitperfect.
   
  As for resampling in the system or the E1, Try both and use the one that sounds best to you.
   
   
  For those interested in swapping opamps, I have been testing for quite awhile now and might have some suggestions for you soon.
  I will try and stay away from the more pricey opamps ($100+)  for the recommendations but I have been working with both chips and discretes.
   
  If you have any opamps you are unsure about buying for your E1 and would like me to test out for you, drop me an PM, if I have the units I will give them a listen and give you an opinion.


----------



## jarula29

Ill be waiting for suggestions about opamps, so. Let me know when u have any conclusions.
  Thanks


----------



## aston456

Good morning team,
   
  does anybody know how the EO generates the clock frequency(ies)?
  I cannot find any VCXO on the mainboard.
  The ADSP-21261 is actually capable of generating it´s own clock frequency without an external VCXO, if I´m not mistaken.
  Is that´s the way it´s done?
   
  Cheers
  Kai


----------



## cladisch

> does anybody know how the EO generates the clock frequency(ies)?


 

 The audio sample clock is either generated by the USB interface chip or derived by the S/PDIF receiver chip.


----------



## morfeeus

Does the Essence One driver provide an EQ as the ST/STX ?


----------



## jarula29

No. But u can use EQ from Foobar.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





morfeeus said:


> Does the Essence One driver provide an EQ as the ST/STX ?


 


  The E1 does not have a driver interface to access on the system like the ST(X) soundcards.


----------



## leeperry

feax said:


> The only problem I  had, is that my essence one was set to 110V , I didn't see it and I blew the two fuses
> at the back of the essence.
> The french essence one has two  T1AH250VP  fuses.
> I replaced them with two T1A250V fuses, it's ok.  (T means temporised, A amperes, V volts)
> ...


 
   
  H/P might mean slow/blow fuse, not sure.

 I don't understand, didn't you have the big sticker on the power cable female connector that says to double-check the voltage of the switch? http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=2011749&st=0&p=44917578&#entry44917578

     







   
  Anyway, it's good to see that they've used proper DIP8 sockets this time


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The E1 does not have a driver interface to access on the system like the ST(X) soundcards.


 


  Having no driver interface does it have any disadvantages when it comes to gamming that has been optimised for sound card drivers ?
   
  I'm really keen to my hands on one to power up my Beyerdynamic DT-880 Premium Headphones 600 Ohm and find an alternative source to my onboard sound card as your really limited to your options when using a notebook.
   
  Does anyone know if it’s possible to bypass my onboard sound card on the notebook and connect a pair of Logitech z2300 speakers to the Asus Xonar Essence One?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





midnightfox said:


> Having no driver interface does it have any disadvantages when it comes to gamming that has been optimised for sound card drivers ?
> 
> I'm really keen to my hands on one to power up my Beyerdynamic DT-880 Premium Headphones 600 Ohm and find an alternative source to my onboard sound card as your really limited to your options when using a notebook.
> 
> Does anyone know if it’s possible to bypass my onboard sound card on the notebook and connect a pair of Logitech z2300 speakers to the Asus Xonar Essence One?


 

 I am not saying the E1 doesn't have drivers.  What I mean is there is no interface to pull up and change settings like a soundcards would have.
   
  Yes, you can use the E1 with your laptop and connect speaker to it but those speakers but I would suggest some higher end speakers for such a source.


----------



## trazom

Hello,
 Sorry if it's a silly question but i'm not used to this kind of material:
 Is it normal that when the volume is 0 to hear a slight noise, which is accentuated if i touch the volume button? If i just turn the  volume button the noise disappears completely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I am very pleased with the E1, which seems more inclusive and warm if i compare to my STX. By against the instruments seem to be less detached and a little less accurate. But the overall tone is listening much more enjoyable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


​


----------



## feax

@Leepery:
   
  When I received it, there was no manual, no measurement certification, no sticker, and the box of the essence was open.
  But there was the CD .
   
  @trazom:
   
  I dont have any noise when the volume is at zero or when I only touch the volume button.(with music or not)
  Without music, if I put the volume at max, I have no noise.
   
  But I have a little noise when turning the knob without music, if I stop turning, the noise disappears.
  And this, only if played music with foobar before.
  If I switch on the essence and turn the volume knob, no noise.


----------



## leeperry

> Originally Posted by *feax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> When I received it, there was no manual, no measurement certification, no sticker, and the box of the essence was open.
> But there was the CD .


 

 So you can safely assume that you've been sold an open box, materiel.net are notorious for this kind of business practice.
   
  Anyway, my friend just received his One this morning, he'll be bringing it to my house together w/ his soon-to-be-sold ST, he wants me to find a good opamps combination for him. The only gear I've got at home atm is my own "Stello Eximus DP1", which isn't quite in the same price range but I could try to post a quick comparative review of the 3 units if anyone's interested.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





feax said:


> When I received it, there was no manual, no measurement certification, no sticker, and the box of the essence was open.
> But there was the CD .
> 
> I dont have any noise when the volume is at zero or when I only touch the volume button.(with music or not)
> ...


 

 Sounds like they sold you an open box product, did you get any type of discount or did they pass it off as new product?
   
  Your noise issue, might in fact be why the first person returned it to the store.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Anyway, my friend just received his One this morning, he'll be bringing it to my house together w/ his soon-to-be-sold ST, he wants me to find a good opamps combination for him. The only gear I've got at home atm is my own "Stello Eximus DP1", which isn't quite in the same price range but I could try to post a quick comparative review of the 3 units if anyone's interested.


 


  Cool... your friend must value your opinion very much to have you test drive his new toy.
  Anyways, looking forward for your opinion.              
   
  I mean, judged by your harsh feedback for the STX/ST while you still get hold of them, it's interesting to see what you'll say about Essence One this time.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Quote: 





feax said:


> @Leepery:
> 
> When I received it, there was no manual, no measurement certification, no sticker, and the box of the essence was open.
> But there was the CD .
> ...


 

 man... that's really scary, what did they sell to you at all? @@
  glad to hear you liked it, but that's really really weird.


----------



## trazom

My problem that caused a buzz is resolved. 




I unfolded my E1 and i can not hear that damn noise. One of my elements external to my PC wasa slight interference. 
I look forward to your impression, my modest experience does not allow me to make a correct opinion.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





audionewbieyao said:


> I mean, judged by your harsh feedback for the STX/ST while you still get hold of them, it's interesting to see what you'll say about Essence One this time.


 
  I thought the weird part was how the flaky his opinion always seemed to be, he ran around telling everybody how awesome the cards were then suddenly did a 180 and said the opposite when he got something else. 
   
  Personally I take opinions that people stand by, not change like their socks.
  To each their own though.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





trazom said:


> My problem that caused a buzz is resolved.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Ground loop maybe?  Glad you got it figured out though.
  Your opinion is just as good as anybodies.
   
  So does it sound good to you?


----------



## leeperry

audionewbieyao said:


> judged by your harsh feedback for the STX/ST while you still get hold of them, it's interesting to see what you'll say about Essence One this time.


 

 Well, my griefs about the internal Essence boards made perfect sense to me:
  -the drivers couldn't handle an automatically bitmatched bit-perfect output even the Creative had been doing over ASIO since forever...I really couldn't picture myself switching between 44.1/48 and 96kHz all the friggin time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -the drivers were buggy and not stable for me, I would always get hiccups when closing Chrome for instance...I guess they didn't run the audio thread in realtime priority or something.
  -at the time, I only tried dual opamps...I guess the ST will sound heaps better w/ some OPA827/OPA602BP and so
  -I was using foobar, and I really don't like how this player sounds...
  -the STX ended up having a very mushy stereo image compared to the ST(thanks to its 75ps reclocker) but the first ST I bought had a completely rotten DIP8 socket....so I had to send it back for RMA, and even then its very low jitter was literally giving me headaches...I've since then learned that low jitter gear calls for crossfeed, otherwise my brain feels half-deaf and hell breaks loose really
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -I was using a very unforgiving Manufaktur DT770/600Ω, this thing calls for a sweet sounding source I believe....a clear sounding punchy DAC makes it really tough to listen to tbh.
   
  After a lot of whining and waiting, Asus apparently finally added a bitmatched mode to their drivers but I had already left the ship....and we now got a guy doing unified drivers that are always based on the latest CMI8788 generic drivers, he seems far more dedicated to the cause than C-Media and Asus will ever be. 
   
  Asus have also used proper DIP8 sockets on the One that will provide a far better contact onto adapters than the old "tulip" style of the internal boards. And the One is using a proper PSU as well, so that all seems very promising 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Either way, my friend just arrived so here's a family picture:
   



  And the One will be breaking in while we get tanked


----------



## trazom

I do not have many means of comparison, before coming on this forum and read your opinions and impressions i had never really interested in obtaining a correct sound. I bought an Essence STX, which give me a big step on the long road of amateur audio. I still practice my listening to hear diference between it and the E1. But they are so different that it's hard to talk properly. I do not have amastery of your language that allows me to make you feel what I mean.
I just know the sound is less accurate with my STX but it gives me the feeling that all sounds are related and it makes listening to songs warmer. I never felt tired with my STX but it's even worse, I could easily sleep so everything is smooth and consistent at a time. What impresses me most are the effects like echo or reverberation that I did not hear again on some songs. I even seem to have changed my headphone so it's different. I rediscovered a lotthought the songs I know well, however, is quite strange but pleasant.
One last thing that surprises me is that I am not someone who has a high noise level to enjoy the songs. I found a setting that was good for me and I never touched him. The E1 and my Sennheiser HD650 listen with the volume knob to 8 hours. But for once, turn the button does not bother me more than the opposite.
I'll end by saying that I never heard anything so beautiful. I am aware that many of you have found a lot of criticism but the E1 as it is, I am happy.


----------



## ROBSCIX

If it sounds good to you then it is good, so enjoy.
   
   
*Note on the E1*, to those of you that just bought the unit and are hearing clicks when the unit powers up.  The clicks are the relays and are perfectly normal.


----------



## gkl

Anyone have some suggestions of some good internationally shipping shops in EU that carry the E1? Doesn't seem to be available in my country.


----------



## Zybane

For you E1 guys, be quite careful with the plastic power button (why in the world didn't they make this out of aluminum). I took the chassis cover off and I found that the back of the plastic button was damaged during assembly or shipping. The only thing connecting the platic button cover to the actual switch is a 2mm peice of plastic. I think I will just try and use a couple drops of super glue on this instead of sending it back.
   
  Other wise the E1 sounds better than my STX and I am extremely happy with the purchase! The firmware update went fine, drivers and USB input all work great. I've never heard my FLAC files over bit-perfect sound so good! It even works amazing in games and Battlefield 3 never sounded better.
   
  Only if Asus spent the extra 50 cents and made the power switch and front buttons aluminum instead of plastic to match the rest of the E1 it would be darn near perfect.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gkl said:


> Anyone have some suggestions of some good internationally shipping shops in EU that carry the E1? Doesn't seem to be available in my country.


 

 They are just starting to hit the market, give it a bit and see if it shows up in a location closer to you.


----------



## jarula29

Try   anobo.de   or   alternate.de. Both are from Germany. anobo.de shipped my own E1 to Ireland.


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





robscix said:


> They are just starting to hit the market, give it a bit and see if it shows up in a location closer to you.


 

 Oh, I live in EU so any country in it is relatively close.  It's just that the choice in audio tech in my country is very limited, plus it tends to be quite overpriced. For example, I ordered my speakers from Germany and even including shipping by DHL it ended being like 90 EUR cheaper than what was available here at the time.
   

  
  Quote: 





jarula29 said:


> Try   anobo.de   or   alternate.de. Both are from Germany. anobo.de shipped my own E1 to Ireland.


 

 Thanks, will check them out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gkl said:


> Oh, I live in EU so any country in it is relatively close.  It's just that the choice in audio tech in my country is very limited, plus it tends to be quite overpriced. For example, I ordered my speakers from Germany and even including shipping by DHL it ended being like 90 EUR cheaper than what was available here at the time.
> 
> Thanks, will check them out.


 

 OK, I see what you mean.  The price will be inflated on almost any product when first released and more with any imports.  Prices drop though, if you can wait.


----------



## leeperry

OK, been playing around w/ the One for a few hours and it sounds pretty damn good out of the box! Looking forward to some opamps rolling in order to really feel at home though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll have to try the ST again in order to refresh my memory because the DP-1 isn't a fair contender, but my friend's happy and it's all that matters!
  


> Originally Posted by *aston456* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> does anybody know how the EO generates the clock frequency(ies)?


 

 that's what the manual says:


----------



## Gabrielisc

Anyone here know if the E1 drives the 880 600ohms? or preferably the T1s
  I know its best to get a much better DAC and AMP for the T1s but Im considering upgrading slowly. Sold my AKG Q701s and soon to buy T1s


----------



## Mutsu

So I've done some comparisons now between my STX and E1, here are my observations.
   
  The E1 sounds better to me than the STX, everything sounds clearer with a slightly larger soundstage. It's quite hard to explain but I find myself tapping my foot more to the E1, it sounds more fun to me.
   
  Upsampling on the E1 - When I first switch the upsampling on, straight away I notice treble drops off slightly, but after a few minutes of listening I find myself enjoying the smoother upsampled sound. Switching upsamling back off again and the trebles actually sound a bit harsh, but it definitely brings out some punchiness to the drums and overall things sound like they have a bit more attack.
   
  One of the reasons I bought the E1 was so I could move my PC in to a different room and use my laptop as the source. So I was looking forward to hooking my TV up to the E1 via optical to get some sound improvement. However, this isn't the case... TV - AMP via RCA and TV - DAC - AMP sound exactly the same to me. Absolutely no difference, which I'm a bit disappointed with.


----------



## Tone Def

Quote: 





mutsu said:


> So I've done some comparisons now between my STX and E1, here are my observations.
> 
> The E1 sounds better to me than the STX, everything sounds clearer with a slightly larger soundstage. It's quite hard to explain but I find myself tapping my foot more to the E1, it sounds more fun to me.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using the headphone out or just the DAC?
   
  Cheers


----------



## firev1

I wonder how this compares with say, Yulong DACs?


----------



## Mutsu

Quote: 





tone def said:


> Are you using the headphone out or just the DAC?
> 
> Cheers


 


  I'm using both for audio, TV im using DAC to amp.
   
  My audio set up is:
  Phones = Laptop -> E1 -> HD650
  Speakers = Laptop -> E1 -> Rega Brio-R -> Monitor Audio Rx1
   
  Tv:
  Tv -> E1 (optical) -> Rega Brio-R -> Monitor Audio Rx1
  Tv -> Rega Brio-R (RCA) -> Monitor Audio Rx1
  I've tried the above from both TV and Virgin media box. But switching inputs on my amp from RCA direct to digital from E1 makes no difference in sound to me.


----------



## Tone Def

Quote: 





mutsu said:


> I'm using both for audio, TV im using DAC to amp.
> 
> My audio set up is:
> Phones = Laptop -> E1 -> HD650
> ...


 


  So, you're of the opinion that the DAC in the E1 is superior to the one in the STX? I'm curious because I have a STX and I'm wondering if the E1 is a worthwhile upgrade, ie. worthy of $300 or if I should get it at the expense of something else in my decidedly mid-fi setup. Hope what I'm asking makes sense. I guess I should wait for a proper review but in the meantime any feedback in this regard would be highly appreciated.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Mutsu

Quote: 





tone def said:


> So, you're of the opinion that the DAC in the E1 is superior to the one in the STX? I'm curious because I have a STX and I'm wondering if the E1 is a worthwhile upgrade, ie. worthy of $300 or if I should get it at the expense of something else in my decidedly mid-fi setup. Hope what I'm asking makes sense. I guess I should wait for a proper review but in the meantime any feedback in this regard would be highly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers


 

 Yea, through both my speakers and my headphones the E1 sounds better to me. It's not a massive difference though, it's quite subtle.
   
  In my opinion a straight upgrade isn't worth it. For me, the difference in quality doesn't warrant the extra cost. However, I was looking for an external DAC to replace my STX for other reasons, so overall I'm happy with the purchase. It would have been interesting to hear other external DACs out there, but I didn't have access to any; so that's why I just went straight for the E1.
   
  I also have no idea if there will be a burn in for the DAC at all, it would be nice if there was but I'm skeptical.


----------



## Tone Def

Thanks for that. If the dac in the E1 is only marginally better than the one in my stx then I think I'll just upgrade my amp or my cans maybe even roll some opamps while I wait for a comparison review.
   
  Cheers


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





tone def said:


> Thanks for that. If the dac in the E1 is only marginally better than the one in my stx then I think I'll just upgrade my amp or my cans maybe even roll some opamps while I wait for a comparison review.
> 
> Cheers


 

  
  I would suggest waiting until you can hear the unit for yourself then you can decide based on your own ears.
  You can get great results rolling opamps, atleast you can tune the card more to your personal taste.


----------



## Mutsu

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I would suggest waiting until you can hear the unit for yourself then you can decide based on your own ears.


 


  Yea, always better to demo yourself if you can.
   
  I've been listening to the E1 all day now (Through speakers) and really enjoying the sound. Shame I've moved the PC to the other room as I'd quite like to compare it to the STX again! Oh well.
   
  Anyone else had similar experiences of sound quality being exactly the same through speakers from TV -> E1 -> Amp and TV -> Amp?


----------



## anger3377

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> I received my Essence One the other day and didn't have much of chance to listen to it.  It took me a while to get everything setup.  My version came with power cables that were not compatible with US power outlets.  I was fortunate I had a brand new power cable laying around the house and didn't have to go to the store to get one. ....


 
  Did u place your order in the U.S.A? My friend in UK bought Xonar Essence One with the power cord for UK while mine bought in America is with USA power cable. FYI~


----------



## Gabrielisc

No one try the E1 with a 600 ohm phone? wondering if this can drive the T1


----------



## reiserFS

Should be able to, but I'm not sure how well.
  
  Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> No one try the E1 with a 600 ohm phone? wondering if this can drive the T1


----------



## gkl

Since more people have bought and tried E1, I'm asking this question again - if you have attached both speakers and a headphone (via the built in amp) to it, can you use them both interchangeably simply by turning the volume knob all the way down? For example, turn down headphone volume and use speakers (headphones are then silent), and to switch back to using headphones, simply turn down speaker volume knob and turn up the headphone one up (speakers remain powered on). Does it work that way with the E1 and its dual volume knobs?


----------



## Zybane

Quote: 





gkl said:


> Since more people have bought and tried E1, I'm asking this question again - if you have attached both speakers and a headphone (via the built in amp) to it, can you use them both interchangeably simply by turning the volume knob all the way down? For example, turn down headphone volume and use speakers (headphones are then silent), and to switch back to using headphones, simply turn down speaker volume knob and turn up the headphone one up (speakers remain powered on). Does it work that way with the E1 and its dual volume knobs?


 


  Yes, both outputs play at the same time. I've been listening to music through my loudspeakers and breaking in my HD650's at the same time. Also, the headphone AMP on the E1 is pretty powerful. It drives my 300 ohm HD650's at normal volume levels at less than 1/4 volume knob level.


----------



## gkl

Thanks! But I assume that if you want to use only your headphones, you can just turn down the volume (via E1's knob) of the speakers and they will be dead silent, right? For example, my current amp outputs sound even if the volume knob is turned down to the lowest setting.


----------



## GChiu

Ok, this is probably a dumb question:
  I have a PC with optical output. Would it sound better with E1 through optical-in or USB?
   
  I was thinking of using optical because optical seems to have better transfer rate, but everyone seems to be using USB. I am confused...
   
  Another dumb question:
  If I use optical, do I still need to go through those updates?


----------



## Lloyd84

Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> No one try the E1 with a 600 ohm phone? wondering if this can drive the T1


 


  Short answer - yes it can.
   
  Long answer
  I paid a visit to addicted to audio today to audition the t1's and hd800's.  I took the EssenceOne with me for comparison. It was able to drive both with ease - I found a little past a quarter volume was sufficient for the hd800, and a little under a quarter for the T1.
   
  Comparison was done between a Violectric amp/dac combo and a Sugden class A headphone amp fed the essence one dac output through the xlr connectors, and the essence on its own. Source used was a Luxman cd player using toslink.
   
  Violectric combo
  I found this to have slightly more detail, with no real difference in soundstage or clarity. I would not pay the extra for this over the essence one.
   
  Sugden amp/essence dac
  This was definitely a step up from the amp in the essence one. Better separation of instruments, wider soundstage, more detailed.  That said I would expect it to be considering the Sugden is about 2900aud.
   
  Essence One
  This had slightly dark presentation compared to the others.  I enjoyed it with the hd800's, but I found the T1's a little shrill.  The essence definitely isn't the last word in micro detail.


----------



## leeperry

So I've indeed compared the One to a ST with good opamps on a pimped Fostex T50RP: 


   
  It's a clear knock out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The ST sounds like a PC internal board in comparison, and no opamp in the world will be magical enough to make it compete with a serious external DAC....the noisy high ripple switching-mode computer PSU prolly has a lot to do w/ this. Clearly, there's no way back from the One to the ST...as usual with audio, there's always something better sounding out there and once you will have heard it you *will* be spoiled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Don't get too hung up on those SNR/IMD/THD+N measurements being better on the ST/STX, because as an engineer recently told me:


> Measured data is valuable, but by no means the most important thing in building high end audio gear. It is very, very easy to build a unit from a handful of chips (opamps) that performs very well on the meter, but sounds awful. Feedback circuits were invented because of their ability to correct for everything – by this it is easy to achieve 0.0005% THD figures. Music is not pure sine waves, not even a sum of two (intermodulation).


 
   
  It's a well know fact that specs won't tell you how a piece of equipment will sound to you: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4432704-post5.html


> there were many scientific researches that proved that all variations of IMD, THD, THD+N tests, and all other specific tests can't be used to say how well the sound is reproduced in terms of subconscious human perceptions. And there still are some stubborn engineers and scientists who won't see any evidences.


 
   
  All this said, there are a few things I really enjoy on the One:
   
  -the fact that the coax input inserts silence instead of glitches when switching sample rates, I couldn't bear those S/PDIF glitches anymore..whatever DIR9001 or CS841x glitch like hell when switching sample rates. They need to resync, and that hurts my ears.
   
  So that makes the coax input a truely viable option, and the nice thing about coax is that you get galvanic isolation from the get go...which is impossible w/ hi-speed USB except if you're willing to spend a grand on optical isolation(that will introduce jitter of course).

 -it remembers what input was last used when you turn it back on, most DAC's become amnesic when you shut them down IME

 -the SS is really really 3D and mind blowing! Too bad the One is based on 5532's and 4562's and that these opamps are really not analytic enough to my taste. My friend already ordered these, I will update my impressions: http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-10x-AD797BR-Dual-Mono-Op-amp-module-up-NE5532-/350485764109
   
  Asus clearly went as "discrete" as you can get w/ opamps through a fully dual mono design, and instead of doubling the price due to using higher end opamps, they've decided to put entry level chips so the OCD'ed audiophiles can go nuts searching for the killer combination until the end of the days. The One is clearly a roller's dream come true.
   
  Also, the manual states that there are 4 screws to service the unit, but there are actually two more at the back in the middle. It would have saved me some frustation to have it clearly stated in the manual.


----------



## Chado

I just got mine setup today - I'm using my old Sennheiser HD 280's with it and it sounds great (relatively speaking), I have a pair of HD 650's that should be here Friday or Monday (let's hope Friday  and I can't wait to break them in on it.


----------



## cladisch

> I have a PC with optical output. Would it sound better with E1 through optical-in or USB?


 
   
  With S/PDIF, the receiving device has to synchronize to the sender's clock (which gets harder the more jitter you have).
  With USB, the PC synchronizes to the E1's clock.
   


> optical seems to have better transfer rate


 

 S/PDIF: 12 Mbit/s (at 192 kHz)
  USB 1.x: 12 Mbit/s
  USB 2.0: 480 Mbit/s
   
  (S/PDIF is designed to transport nothing but the audio stream.)


----------



## psysword

hi there, im new here,,,and am waiting for my Asus to come on in...im currently in new delhi and its been a pain getting a hold of the E1...im placing the order tom and fingers crossed get it in a month from taiwan...i heard your chatter and ive learnt much from it...GET THE E1!....sure am...now getting to all the fancy stuff like op amps and swapping ill do that later on....so a quick thanks to all of you and Keep Talking! P.s anywhere i can learn how to swap an amp, just pull and plug,,,and how do you ID the op=amps and not pull the wrong amps...
  and how do you know which op-amp does what? that sounds real complicated....anyways here is to music....
   
  saif


----------



## Zybane

Quote: 





gkl said:


> Thanks! But I assume that if you want to use only your headphones, you can just turn down the volume (via E1's knob) of the speakers and they will be dead silent, right? For example, my current amp outputs sound even if the volume knob is turned down to the lowest setting.


 

 Yes just turn down one volume and it will be dead silent. 
   


  Quote: 





gchiu said:


> Ok, this is probably a dumb question:
> I have a PC with optical output. Would it sound better with E1 through optical-in or USB?
> 
> I was thinking of using optical because optical seems to have better transfer rate, but everyone seems to be using USB. I am confused...
> ...


 

 USB 2.0 has plenty of bandwidth to handle any sampling rate. USB on the E1 works perfect, no reason to use anything else. Zero jitter and stellar sound.


----------



## morfeeus

Not true.............actually the coaxial SPDIF digital input from a DAC , if utilized, can be superior than USB. There is a  relatively new product that exceeds the sound quality of USB. Its a converter that is placed between the USB output of your PC and your DAC SPDIF input. There are a few audio manufacturers that produce them like.....Musical Fidelity's V-Links II, Stello U3, and Berkeley Audio Design's Alpha USB to mention a few. Prices range from $ 200. to $ 1700.
   
  The USB input was never intended to be a high resolution digital audio output. It was the rapid growth of computer based music systems that caused the high end  industry to re-engineer the standard to meet the growing demands of high quality music requirements, Because of the contributions of high end designers ,today's best USB interfaces are light years beyond the basic improvements.
   
  I would just like to mention that  another level of higher audio quality sound from the Essence One  is possible, depending upon your personal audio system investment and audio playback quality preferences, these USB / SPDIF converters may or may not be everyone's desire to acquire for more $$$$. Thou it is an option. Just to inform you.....


----------



## ROBSCIX

I would say it depends on what is being compared.  It is not really just a simple A is better then B question.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





morfeeus said:


> Not true.............actually the coaxial SPDIF digital input from a DAC , if utilized, can be superior than USB. There is a  relatively new product that exceeds the sound quality of USB. Its a converter that is placed between the USB output of your PC and your DAC SPDIF input. There are a few audio manufacturers that produce them like.....Musical Fidelity's V-Links II, Stello U3, and Berkeley Audio Design's Alpha USB to mention a few. Prices range from $ 200. to $ 1700.


 


  That is not true! If anything, USB standard is the way to go. There maybe in fact, degrading of audio quality over a few metres and USB does not have that sort of problem. In fact, if anything, adding a new interface between the USB and DAC, may degrade quality. Sound quality over a certain protocol is more dependent on DAC jitter reduction than interface.
   
  PS: LOL everyone denying each other


----------



## morfeeus

USB is by far the most popular and simplified way to run a connection to a DAC. Although simple in practice, the USB audibly degrades the signal passing through it.  Even in the higher design implementations. As mentioned , USB  was never designed for audio, it is a"packetized data" format in which data are split up into discrete chunks, wrapped up with information about those chunks,transmitted and then put back together at the receiving end. This is is sharp contrast with the continuous bitstream of digital audio formats such as SPDIF.
   
  Nothing to do with length of transmission. Regardless, by no means each USB / SPDIF converter on its own won't accomplish a state of the art, all out assault without non compromising sound quality. Its just another way of eliminating problems of the USB interface.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





morfeeus said:


> USB is by far the most popular and simplified way to run a connection to a DAC. Although simple in practice, the USB audibly degrades the signal passing through it.  Even in the higher design implementations. As mentioned , USB  was never designed for audio, it is a"packetized data" format in which data are split up into discrete chunks, wrapped up with information about those chunks,transmitted and then put back together at the receiving end. This is is sharp contrast with the continuous bitstream of digital audio formats such as SPDIF.
> 
> Nothing to do with length of transmission. Regardless, by no means each USB / SPDIF converter on its own won't accomplish a state of the art, all out assault without non compromising sound quality. Its just another way of eliminating problems of the USB interface.


 
  Proof? USB does not degrade signal, problems associated with USB comes from lack of proper implementation of the USB interface but in the years we have seen a fair share of high quality DACs with very good USB implementation for low jitter. The so called "packetized data" and bitstream argument about SQ is moot with proper usb jitter isolation. I know that USB has its fair share of problems, but running a converter makes less sense(and potentially adding jitter) than just buying a high quality USB DAC with good jitter reduction.  Just because something isn't specifically designed for audio does not mean it does any worse in it.


----------



## dynamics

Will the sound quality degrade if I hooked up E1 through the STX optical out?


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Will the sound quality degrade if I hooked up E1 through the STX optical out?


 


  In theory, yes.


----------



## leeperry

morfeeus said:


> USB is by far the most popular and simplified way to run a connection to a DAC. Although simple in practice, the USB audibly degrades the signal passing through it. [..] Its just another way of eliminating problems of the USB interface.


 

 Another problem is that you cannot isolate hi-speed USB 2.0, OTOH any serious coax middle-man does it out of the box...so the computer noise doesn't get its way into the DAC


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





zybane said:


> Yes just turn down one volume and it will be dead silent.
> 
> 
> USB 2.0 has plenty of bandwidth to handle any sampling rate. USB on the E1 works perfect, no reason to use anything else. Zero jitter and stellar sound.


 

 Sounds perfect, _exactly _what I'm looking for. Will order it asap.


----------



## Zybane

[size=12pt]Uh, I am sorry I completely disagree with everything you have said. USB being a digital signal, it has nothing to do with "high resolution audio output". It is all about bandwidth. The only way you would lose any of the signal is if the bandwidth limit is reached, which doesn't even come close to happening with USB 2.0. Plus the E1 has jitter reduction as it's timing is sync'd with the PC. 100% of the information that the PC sends out is received by the E1 in bit-perfect mode, so the audio signal _cannot_ get any better. Especially on a device like the E1 that has the USB connection done really well. [/size]
   
[size=12pt]And somehow going from USB to SPDIF which has lower bandwidth is suppose to be better? If your not getting any jitter, there is absolutely no benefit to SPDIF. Your still outputting in USB and you are introducing another component that could lead to timing and signal loss problems in your audio chain. The only reason USB-SPDIF converts exist is so that people with USB outputs can play their music on devices like receivers that ONLY have SPDIF inputs. [/size]
[size=12pt]So long as you don't get any jitter which the E1 doesn't, USB output is 100% perfect. It is only very poor USB audio equipment that would benefit from a SPDIF converter, not the E1. Most of those articles you read saying SPDIF is "better" than USB are ancient and used inferior equipment. I'd wager starting with USB at the PC and then changing to SPDIF midway with some piece of electronics mid-stream would make the sound _worse_. [/size]
   
[size=12.0pt]Most USB audio uses Synchronous Data Transfer mode to adjust the internal clock to compensate different data transfer rates between PCs and USB audio devices. But the jitter is worse if the transfer rate is different between a PC and the audio device. To avoid this issue, the ASUS Xonar Essence One supports Asynchronous Data Transfer mode. This mechanism feedbacks the buffer status to the system, and the system is based on buffer status to adjust to the speed of the data transfer, which leads to a low amount of jitter in the Xonar Essence One down to an insignificant level. A USB-SPDIF converter is good for synchronous data devices but not asynchronous like the E1.  [/size]
   Quote:


morfeeus said:


> Not true.............actually the coaxial SPDIF digital input from a DAC , if utilized, can be superior than USB. There is a  relatively new product that exceeds the sound quality of USB. Its a converter that is placed between the USB output of your PC and your DAC SPDIF input. There are a few audio manufacturers that produce them like.....Musical Fidelity's V-Links II, Stello U3, and Berkeley Audio Design's Alpha USB to mention a few. Prices range from $ 200. to $ 1700.
> 
> The USB input was never intended to be a high resolution digital audio output. It was the rapid growth of computer based music systems that caused the high end  industry to re-engineer the standard to meet the growing demands of high quality music requirements, Because of the contributions of high end designers ,today's best USB interfaces are light years beyond the basic improvements.
> 
> I would just like to mention that  another level of higher audio quality sound from the Essence One  is possible, depending upon your personal audio system investment and audio playback quality preferences, these USB / SPDIF converters may or may not be everyone's desire to acquire for more $$$$. Thou it is an option. Just to inform you.....


----------



## GChiu

Wow, many schools of thoughts... I have lots to learn...
   
  Since the E1 requires only USB 1.1 or higher, would bandwidth still matter as cladisch mentioned that the S/PDIF and USB1.x has the same bandwidth?
   
  Also, I noticed USB ports are different... I have external powered hub, on-board USB 2.0, on-board USB 3.0, and front panel USB ports, and not all devices work well on all ports. That's actually my key concern with the USB...
   
  And... I can't get the bit perfect light to on with Win 7 on either USD or TOSLINK... I am streaming from Amazon cloud...


----------



## morfeeus

After reading reviews in a couple of high end magazines...................reading  about what the reviewer is hearing has made me a believer ..................
  Here is one review I could find online of the $500. STELLO U3 USB/SPDIF CONVERTER.......
   
  http://www.aprilmusic.com/eng/bbs/bbsView.php?id=47&page=1&code=bbs_industry
   
  Found another.....this one being the $169. MUSICAL FIDELITY V-LINK II
   
  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Musical-Fidelity-M1DAC-M1HPA-and-V-Link-Async-USB-Converter-Review


----------



## Zybane

Quote: 





morfeeus said:


> After reading reviews in a couple of high end magazines...................reading  about what the reviewer is hearing has made me a believer ..................
> Here is one review I could find online of the $500. STELLO U3 USB/SPDIF CONVERTER.......
> 
> http://www.aprilmusic.com/eng/bbs/bbsView.php?id=47&page=1&code=bbs_industry
> ...


 


  Morfeeus, the answer is right in that second article you linked. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Musical-Fidelity-M1DAC-M1HPA-and-V-Link-Async-USB-Converter-Review
   
  That headphone amplifier in the review USB input stinks:
   
   
 USB Input on M1HPA
 Audio Stream Format Type Desc.


 Format Type: 1 PCM
 Number Of Channels: 2 *STEREO*
 Sub Frame Size: 2
 Bit Resolution: *16*
 Sample Frequency Type: 0x03 (Discrete)
 Sample Frequency: *32000 Hz*
 Sample Frequency: *44100 Hz*
 Sample Frequency: *48000 Hz*
  Endpoint 0x02 - Isochronous Output


 Address: 0x02 (OUT)
 Attributes: 0x09 (Isochronous *adaptive* data endpoint)
 Max Packet Size: 192
 Polling Interval: 1 ms
   

 ADAPTIVE USB input stinks!

  

 "Listening to the adaptive input followed by the much better asynchronous input then the adaptive input one more time made it much easier to recognize how subpar the adaptive USB interface can sound. The V-Link's superior asynchronous USB interface plays a major role in the sound quality of this Musical Fidelity system."

  

 The USB to SPDIF converter will make the sound better when using devices that have inferior USB setups. The Essence One already has this as it uses Asynchronous mode and PC isolation. The E1 already does what these USB to SPDIF converters do so they are not needed.


----------



## morfeeus

Troll alert everyone!!!!!!!!...............enough spoken.........some people just need to chill.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





morfeeus said:


> Troll alert everyone!!!!!!!!...............enough spoken.........some people just need to chill.


 


  You need to read up some science.


----------



## anetode

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> In theory, yes.


 


  Which theory would that be?
   
  Use optical, use USB - whatever's more convenient for you. Remember you were the one who purchased this product and its features are meant to accommodate your setup.
   
  Or I could throw out some scientific factoids in a manipulative manner to sway your decision. Like, optical output is the only one among SPDIF and USB that offers electrical isolation! See? That means something, it might even be of interest to an engineer.
   
  But in the end such factoids will have jack to do with what's audible. Either the connection will work without dropping out, or it won't.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





anetode said:


> Which theory would that be?
> 
> Use optical, use USB - whatever's more convenient for you. Remember you were the one who purchased this product and its features are meant to accommodate your setup.
> 
> ...


 

 In theory because 
   
  1. I have not the equipment to do Jtest.
  2. While the USB implementation of the E1 may be all good and achieve good jitter performance (Async USB), I really can't say the same for SPDIF since Asus does not provide any specs to say what strategies they use to attenuate jitter on the SPDIF side
  3. Certainly while either connection will surely work without dropouts, going around saying "such factoids will have jack to do with what's audible" is a bold statement when neither of us know what goes on inside the E1 for the SPDIF side. On top of that there have been a few papers stating the limitations of SPDIF and the strategies to counter them.
  4. While I have stated all this "factoids" above, in real world situations, E1 may still sound as good on SPDIF(and strategies to prevent jitter), that is why I say, "in theory"


----------



## anetode

Quote: 





firev1 said:


> In theory because
> 
> 1. I have not the equipment to do Jtest.
> 2. While the USB implementation of the E1 may be all good and achieve good jitter performance (Async USB), I really can't say the same for SPDIF since Asus does not provide any specs to say what strategies they use to attenuate jitter on the SPDIF side
> ...


 







  I was asking about the specific theory, like the real physical law or research or somesuch.
   
  Sorry for the bold statement, I made it because at that moment I had reached a tolerance limit for audiophilia and it wasn't targeted specifically at you. Nonetheless I stand by that statement you quoted and I'd like to point out that Asus engineers aren't idiots, that they know far more about jitter effects, its audibility and prevention than the vast majority of forum-goers who discuss it. That's the last bold statement from me for a while in this thread as there are other sections of the forum where these technical topics are discussed in greater detail.


----------



## leeperry

firev1 said:


> E1 may still sound as good on SPDIF(and strategies to prevent jitter), that is why I say, "in theory"


 

 A wild guess would be that the SHARC DSP reclocks the S/PDIF (and possibly all) inputs, because I tried coax off the ST and it sounded just as good as the USB input to my ears. There's no hard rule between USB and S/PDIF because of 1) reclocking 2) galvanic isolation 3) their result is highly implementation dependent...and C-Media aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This said, I read that the ST provided excellent jitter over its coax output, too bad it's not isolated...but isolation is known to add distortion and jitter, hah


----------



## dave_pass

So where did we land on US price for the E1?
   
  Looks like MSRP is US $599.
   
  Seems like it could be had for $530-$540 last week, but most sites sold out this weekend at that price.
   
  Has anyone found a better deal in the US?


----------



## Mutsu

Just bought myself a 5m USB a/b cable, as the one provided with the E1 was not long enough to reach where I wanted to use my laptop.
   
  The 5m cable doesn't work though, I guess it's too long for the single to pick up. On one USB port the device is picked up by my laptop as an unknown device and doesn't work.
   
  I might try a 4 or 3m cable next. Anyone else experienced this issue using longer USB cables on the E1?


----------



## GChiu

Ok, here's my set-up:
   
  1. Amazon Cloud > Realtek® ALC889 > TOSLINK > Essence One > Headphone-out (Volume dial at 9 o'clock) > AKG Q701
  2. Amazon Cloud > Realtek® ALC889 > TOSLINK > Essence One (Volume dial at 12 o'clock) > Unbalamced-out > Behringer HA400 (Volume dial at 9 o'clock) > AKG K272 HD

  3. Amazon Cloud > On-board USB 3.0 (ASUS P6X58D Premium) > Essence One > Headphone-out (Volume dial at 9 o'clock) > AKG Q701
  4. Amazon Cloud > On-board USB 3.0 (ASUS P6X58D Premium) > Essence One (Volume dial at 12 o'clock) > Unbalamced-out > Behringer HA400 (Volume dial at 9 o'clock) > AKG K272 HD
   
  For options 1 and 2, with UPSAMPLING on, I hear a faint ringing sound at the first 7 seconds of Katy Perry's "I Kissed a Girl" from the MTV Unplugged version when using TOSLINK. I don't hear that with options 3 and 4. It sounds like someone put a few coins on top of a sub-woofer and the coins are vibrating with the heavy bass. Does anyone hear that? 
   
  I can NOT hear the same effect with other songs with deep bass (e.g. Free by Marcus Miller, Chameleon by Herbie Hancock), so I am not sure whether it was caused by the difference between the TOSLINK and USB implementation.
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> A wild guess would be that the SHARC DSP reclocks the S/PDIF (and possibly all) inputs, because I tried coax off the ST and it sounded just as good as the USB input to my ears. There's no hard rule between USB and S/PDIF because of 1) reclocking 2) galvanic isolation 3) their result is highly implementation dependent...and C-Media aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer either
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## leeperry

Realtek, toslink, upsampling...none of this can sound good tbh. A friend of mine is in the market for a battery powered Hiface, I will try it on the One and report back. The built-in USB chip from C-Media doesn't seem to have two discrete low jitter clocks for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples like the Hiface, and it's not isolated either...so we'll see, but first we need to receive the army of AD797B's


----------



## antberg

is there somebody that tested it with a good rig that could tell if they are a worthy convenient  and competitive to buy instead a more expensive desktop amp/dac,instead useless conflicts?
  i wish i could afford one and spend a whole week to compare,many people around here have to work hard to even buy just one reasonable amp/dac for their hard-worked-worthed headphones,then a forum should be here just for this purpose,to recommend people if what they are looking for is worth or not.


----------



## GChiu

Hmmm... I am pretty happy with this set-up, but obviously it's not good enough for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  - The Realtek I have is an on-board sound card, so I know it's subpar, that's why I bought the Essence One. Doesn't processing the data through Essence One bypass Realtek?
  - TOSLINK should be able to transfer 32bit audio data, so why would it be insufficient?
  - ASUS seems rather proud of the Essence One's capability to perform 8X upsampling. I am not an engineer, but isn't that supposed to make the audio data sound better?
  - I can't figure out how to get bit perfect to work on Win 7, that's why I used upsampling...
   
  I did notice SIGNIFICANT improvement with my listening experience compared with my previous DAC. The Essence One is a keeper for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  However, I just can't figure out whether the "ringing" sound I hear with TOSLINK is nuance introduced by the TOSLINK implementation on the Essence One, or an existing data that was not audible through the USB. I don't think it's the source as I used the same source to transfer the same piece of data, just using different cables. I am a noob, so I am probably  just understanding this all wrong...
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Realtek, toslink, upsampling...none of this can sound good tbh. A friend of mine is in the market for a battery powered Hiface, I will try it on the One and report back. The built-in USB chip from C-Media doesn't seem to have two discrete low jitter clocks for 44.1 and 48kHz multiples like the Hiface, and it's not isolated either...so we'll see, but first we need to receive the army of AD797B's


----------



## Chado

GChiu - bit perfect out of the usb --> headphone port on E1 is working for me by using the ASIO plugin with foobar - http://www.foobar2000.org/components you can get it from there.  Then you have to select that as your output device in foobar preferences. 
   
  Hopefully that helps with the Bit Perfect anyway - the light will come on when you have it working.  I don't think the source data really matters as I am using mostly FLAC / Apple Lossless files but the lossy MP3's I have work with it as well.  Someone can feel free to correct me but I think even the most terrible quality file would play 'bit perfect' once you get it setup in foobar.  I also have seen people talking about a winamp plugin and maybe other media player plugins - I'm using Foobar as it seems to be the fan favorite around here by people who know more than me .


----------



## GChiu

There are a few reviews out there comparing the Essence One to Benchmark DAC1, which is ~$1600. The conclusions have been favorable to the DAC1. So without listing with my own ears, I am guessing that the Essence One probably can't stack up against those +$1500 DACs.
   
   
  Here's my VERY subjective opinion. I paid $590 for the Essence One. Comparing with my previous DAC worth $200, I don't think it is 3 times better, because I can't quantify how many times my experience was improved. But I feel the Essence One worth the $400 difference in price tag, every penny of it. The Essence One is quite impressive in the price range for the test data it publishes. I can't find another DAC in the same price range that meets my needs, I am a very particular person with limited resources. I won't be looking for a desktop DAC for a while. My next quest is for a portable DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  At the end of the day, my opinion is MY opinion. I am keeping my Essence One, but don't blame me if you ended up not finding the same value in Essence One as I do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





antberg said:


> is there somebody that tested it with a good rig that could tell if they are a worthy convenient  and competitive to buy instead a more expensive desktop amp/dac,instead useless conflicts?
> i wish i could afford one and spend a whole week to compare,many people around here have to work hard to even buy just one reasonable amp/dac for their hard-worked-worthed headphones,then a forum should be here just for this purpose,to recommend people if what they are looking for is worth or not.


----------



## Gabrielisc

Just a general FYI guys
   
  the essence one does not have enough juice to power a T1 properly.
  The HD800 works fine and same with the Audeze LCD-2 (as expected) but def not the T1, the volume goes higher, the bass impact isnt there and it just sounds bad.


----------



## leeperry

gchiu said:


> There are a few reviews out there comparing the Essence One to Benchmark DAC1, which is ~$1600. The conclusions have been favorable to the DAC1. So without listing with my own ears, I am guessing that the Essence One probably can't stack up against those +$1500 DACs


 

 But both the DAC1 and the One use cheap jellybean 5532/4562 opamps, OTOH the Invicta is exclusively using the AD797: http://www.google.com/search?q=Resonessence+Labs+Invicta+ad797
   
  The very same chip that took the crown in this shout-out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2 and oh yes, it's a blatant night & day over 5532/4562.
   
  We're lucky enough that Asus allowed us to roll the opamps in the One so they wouldn't have to double the price due to using pricier opamps, so what really matters is how it'll sound when it'll be full of AD797B's =)
  


gchiu said:


> Hmmm... I am pretty happy with this set-up, but obviously it's not good enough for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  1) The realtek's do everything poorly, these are only good for lofi systems and troubleshoot purposes IME. S/PDIF is far more than a bunch of 0's and 1's, it's a just a pretty bloated protocol so better get it right.

 2) It's a miracle Toslink works at all, look at the shape of the waveform at the bottom of this page: http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TRANSPORT/CD_transport_DIY.html
   
  3) Upsampling doesn't improve the SQ, but each to his own: http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio
   
  Asus went dual mono so we got a killer oversampling pass taking place, no need to feed interpolated data to it IMHO.
   
  4) you need to install the ASIO driver and use it in foobar/XMPlay or any other serious player.
   
  And I guess that your "amazon cloud" is lossy audio? toslink + lossy audio + upsampling are up to no good really. Sticking to lossless audio via serious transports(like the built-in USB) sounds like a better idea IMHO. Surely lossy audio is unbearable on highly transparent gear, for instance 192 kbit MP3 on my Stello Eximus DP-1 sounds like half of the music is missing....the sound is mushy, unfocused, a waste of time really. If I wanted to listen to AM radio, I could...but I don't ^^


----------



## antberg

thanks for the answers.so i deduce they maked a amplifier for a gaming entushiast user tha want a good audio amplifier too.it was predictable too,maybe..


----------



## GChiu

Good luck with the OpAmp roll! I am not in that league...
   
  1) So far so good, but then I don't have the golden ears... 
  2) I think you missed the part the author mentions that TOSLINK is only a bit inferior to the S/PDIF. The graph is an example of a bad TOSLINK wave, not all TOSLINK waves look like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  3) Hmmm... that's a purist's view, and I respect that.
  4) I can't use music players unless I download them to my HDD. It doesn't worth the time to download the ~7K songs anyway. Like you said the online music stores don't have the best quality. They are not "unbearable" though. I enjoy the convenience and no complaints. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_left_cn?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200389400
  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> But both the DAC1 and the One use cheap jellybean 5532/4562 opamps, OTOH the Invicta is exclusively using the AD797: http://www.google.com/search?q=Resonessence+Labs+Invicta+ad797
> 
> The very same chip that took the crown in this shout-out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/audio-gd-discrete-op-amps-reviewed-opa-earth-opa-moon-opa-sun-v-2 and oh yes, it's a blatant night & day over 5532/4562.
> 
> ...


----------



## mahdi

In regards to that website where the guy is comparing square wave signals on his scope from spdif connections...would it be possible to get at the digital information sent as processed by the dac chip? because that would show whether or not those ugly digital signals really are worse as far as information received. and if there's loss in data transmission, if it is significant. 
   
  anyway, after googling this asus device i found this cool website. do anyone here use speakers too besides headphones with this thing? is there really  a BIG jump in performance of something like this device compared to motherboard onboard audio? noticeable quality jump compared to $300 receivers from yamaha or onkyo?


----------



## jarula29

i dont get it... why would you drive headphones worth around 1000 dollars by using DAC wort 500dollars? does not make any sense to me.


----------



## gkl

jarula29 said:


> i dont get it... why would you drive headphones worth around 1000 dollars by using DAC wort 500dollars? does not make any sense to me.




Why not?


----------



## Tablix

Does price quantify quality?  Some people drive LCD2's with a fiio e7/9 combo, while not perfect for everyone it does the job of upgrading onboard sound.
  With the ASUS you have an upgrade path without replacing the entire unit, thus saving you potentially thousands looking for your ideal sound.  There are multiple inputs and output options as well as a very robust unit in terms of design.

  
  So you spend $1000 on cans, then spend $500+ on a DAC if that doesnt work out in terms of sound representation to your liking all you do is learn to roll the opamps.  I am very much in the situation where I cannot afford to make a wrong decision when upgrading my dac as I have kids and a finite budget.  By buying this DAC I can then tweek the sound later as money allows, and once happy I can then invest in more cans or speaker upgrades.
   
  I dont think anyone here would compare this to a $1000+ dac but it certainly has the potential to come somewhere near at a fraction of the cost.  Some people may argue why spend $1000 on cans when you can have a nice set of HD6x0 for less than half the price.  To me I have been happy with low-fi for some time, and I wish to advance a little on the scale by upgrading ONCE in the DAC market to then allow me more experimentation with mid-fi cans, oh and a nice set of speakers which is another $500+ I need to sink into this everlasting struggle for audio bliss.
   
   
  Quote: 





jarula29 said:


> i dont get it... why would you drive headphones worth around 1000 dollars by using DAC wort 500dollars? does not make any sense to me.


----------



## Lloyd84

Quote: 





jarula29 said:


> i dont get it... why would you drive headphones worth around 1000 dollars by using DAC wort 500dollars? does not make any sense to me.


 


  I think most of us were curious to see how it would do, given the spec and the economies of scale that a large company like Asus can leverage.


----------



## Lloyd84

Some further thoughts on the E1.
   
  I'm currently using Beyer DT-250's (80ohm) & Mac Mini connected via TOS.
   
  The headphone amp definitely has some grunt - three steps takes it from silent, to barely audible, to my normal listening level.  Four takes it to a bad place for the long term health of my ears, which puts the dial at about 8 o'clock.  Based on what I experienced with the T1 and the HD800 there's no question the amp can deliver sufficient current to drive higher ohm phones, however better amps will give more detail.
   
  So far I'm loving the sound these produce with the DT-250's.  The 250's in general have great PRAT, unexaggerated bass, smooth mids and a slightly rolled off top end.  I'm appreciating the extended and controlled bass that the combo is producing.  Plenty of detail without being analytical.  It's quite easy to just sit back and let the music wash over me, especially when listening to female vocals.  Absolutely no harshness or hardness to be heard.  They are equally adept with electronic tracks as you get bass that is more felt than heard, with plenty of impact.
   
  The pots aren't that high quality.  There's a lot of play in them, which isn't something I've encountered in a stepped pot before.  They also don't seem to control the volume on both channels equally.  When reducing the volume it's normal to hear one channel decrease more than the other, and I then have to increase it again to get them equalised.
   
  The usb connection does not appear to function via OS X.  I had hoped that USB1 operation would be possible, but apparently a driver is required.
   
  I'm also using the E1 as a preamp for my stereo, as the 8000S can operate as a power amp only.  This has given a very nice increase in overall SQ, with soundstage, separation and detail all boosted.  I was surprised at how much of a difference there is.  I suspect the DAC section is of a higher quality than the headphone amp.
   
  The speaker and headphone outputs operate simultaneously.  Plugging in headphones will not auto mute the speaker output.
   
  The E1 will remember your last input choice and default to it when turned on, but upsampling must be turned on manually.
   
  Aside from the pots, this thing is built like a tank.  It's constructed as a box within a box, and once the appropriate screws are removed the entire dac slides out from the shell on a tray.  The internals look like a high end motherboard, with impeccable soldering and component placement.  Asus' manufacturing knowhow is absolutely on show here.  I'll be fascinated to see what they come up with to top this effort if another model is produced.


----------



## Skocke

Noticed this text on the foobar website, so according to them ASIO is just a piece of junk and doesn't improve soundquality at all? What do think about that, as I have understood it's the only way to get bitperfect output?
  Heres the link and i copied the text below as well: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio
   
   
 ASIO support   
 _By: Peter_
 Adds ASIO output support.

 Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance.
 Current version  1.2.7, released on 2009-03-22


----------



## Tablix

What I would love to see is a direct comparison between the E1 and the new DacMagicPlus.


----------



## Arnotts

I personally couldn't tell any difference between using ASIO/WASAPI and just whatever it was by default, other than it being a lot more hassle to set it all up correctly.


----------



## GChiu

The Teac UDH01-S ($499) is out too. I am also curious about it's comparison with Maverick's D2 ($239) + A1 ($199) combination. All are in the same price range (DacMagic Plus is $599). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





tablix said:


> What I would love to see is a direct comparison between the E1 and the new DacMagicPlus.


----------



## cladisch

> Noticed this text on the foobar website, so according to them ASIO is just a piece of junk and doesn't improve soundquality at all?


 

 ASIO is designed for music production and prioritizes low latency over anything else.
  You'd need low latency only to play back audio data generated in real time in resonse to some events; this does not apply to playback of music files.
   


> I have understood it's the only way to get bitperfect output?


 

 If the driver chooses to resample with the normal interface and to avoid resampling when using ASIO, that's the driver's fault.
  
  However, IIRC Windows XP does resample automatically, and using an ASIO driver would be a way to bypass this.


----------



## arterius2

this is my Essence One with modded op-amps (2x49710HA / 49720HA's)
   

   
  to answer someone's question earlier, my Essence One also exhibit the "wiggle/flop" issue, as I took a look inside, I noticed that the plastic connection between the power button and the switch inside has been snapped off, its seems like this could easily happen during shipping, or just from regular use, since the plastic holding the two parts together is very very fragile, a slight twist in power-switch could have snapped it right off. definitely a huge oversight on ASUS' part


----------



## drez

Quote: 





zybane said:


> [size=12pt]*So long as you don't get any jitter which the E1 doesn't*, USB output is 100% perfect. It is only very poor USB audio equipment that would benefit from a SPDIF converter, not the E1. Most of those articles you read saying SPDIF is "better" than USB are ancient and used inferior equipment. I'd wager starting with USB at the PC and then changing to SPDIF midway with some piece of electronics mid-stream would make the sound _worse_. [/size]


 

 I'm not saying that an SPDIF converter will be beneficial to the Essence One, but ANY digital system will have jitter.  Numerous (quite high end ~$1000+) DAC's that implement USB-->I2S-->DAC can be improved with an external SPDIF or I2S converter (the latter being technically superior in most cases) for various reasons from the various electrical components used, to the power supply setup, to the drivers, internal and external buffer etc.  Asynch does not guarantee superiority over adaptive, and does not guarantee equal performance to other asynch setups.  One thing for sure though is that any external USB-->SPDIF is surely overkill with the Essence One and not guaranteed improvement.  USB from the Essence One though will surely be better than SPDIF from onboard though.
   
  For those looking to buy one, they cost around $400 in Australia: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18862&cPath=211&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=export_feed#googlebase
   
  Don't be fooled that this is the only unit available at this cost tier though - if you are spending ~$600 and ONLY need a DAC with SE outputs the JK DAC should do very well.  For $250 the Emotiva XDA-1 is a crazy deal also and has balanced output and headamp (but you might need a soldering iron to change opamps).  If you are after something a bit smoother/ less dry, Audio-GD offer some excellent products with plenty of power for headphones (but no opamp rolling here)
   
  I can't say any of these will be better or worse than the Essence One as I haven't directly compared any of these, but some of them will be more suitable for certain headphones (but probably not opamp rolling freindly)
   
  Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be many dedicated reviewers looking at the Essence One so it is hard to say how it stands against the competition, but Leeperry's comment on the soundstage sounds promising.  On that, how does it compare to your Stello Eximus DP-1?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Getting back to my main point - USB on the Essence One is 100% certifiably guaranteed to have SOME intrinsic and random jitter which may or may not be better or worse than an external SPDIF solution.  Secondly jitter is not a universal evil just the same as distortion is not universally evil.  Less jitter will allow more detail through, but other technically inferior solutions may sound smoother, more present, richer etc.  To say the One has no jitter is 100% technically incorrect, esp without any measurements of the digital output of the USB implementation - it could be better or worse than a good external SPDIF converter.


----------



## Skocke

Quote: 





cladisch said:


> ASIO is designed for music production and prioritizes low latency over anything else.
> You'd need low latency only to play back audio data generated in real time in resonse to some events; this does not apply to playback of music files.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for clarifying


----------



## xiao-di

Take a look of the links:
  http://www.soomal.com/doc/20100002604.htm
  review will be posted on 12/31/2011.
  http://tw.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_One/
   
  This is the review posted today.
  http://www.soomal.com/doc/20100002648.htm


----------



## xiao-di

http://blog.yam.com/hifihivi/article/39214293


----------



## audionewbieyao

It's a TEAC, is it related to Essence One? are those links all your article?
  Not quite sure of the point of those links.
   
  But still thanks for sharing.


----------



## Lloyd84

Quote: 





arterius2 said:


> this is my Essence One with modded op-amps (2x49710HA / 49720HA's)


 
  So how does it sound?  Is it a major change from the stock opamps?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I spent the last few hours building new opamps modules for testing and decided on building some ADA4627-1, AD797B, LME49990MA, AD8599, AD8620, LME49720HA, LME 49710HA Module.
  I also have some nice discrete units I want to check out with this unit.
  It should be a great weekend of listening tests.


----------



## Arnotts

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I spent the last few hours building new opamps modules for testing and decided on building some ADA4627-1, AD797B, LME49990MA, AD8599, AD8620, LME49720HA, LME 49710HA Module.
> I also have some nice discrete units I want to check out with this unit.
> It should be a great weekend of listening tests.


 


  Let us know when your review on Guru3D is out .


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





arnotts said:


> Let us know when your review on Guru3D is out .


 


  That's part of the reason I built all the amps for testing.


----------



## newtophones07

Im not that great at soldering, so I need to by modded op amps, from the pics (to those that have them),  will these fit on the essence one?


----------



## drez

Do yourself a favor and DOUBLE CHECK any opamps you buy on adapters.  I ordered a pair from China and one was one wrong - it blew my headphone and killed my Essence STX.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





newtophones07 said:


> Im not that great at soldering, so I need to by modded op amps, from the pics (to those that have them),  will these fit on the essence one?


 


  Yeah, they look like they would work fine based on the picture.
  make sure you get the BR modules as many prefer these over the AR modules.
  So look for AD797BR or BRZ....they both will sound the same.


----------



## misha0209

A shout out to all you essence one users and happy rollers!
  It would be incredible if anyone who now tries opamps on the E one has heard the new burson 160DS, and is able to post some impressions on that compared to the modded E one.
  Burson 160D is fine too, but i do not think any opamp placed in the E one will bring it close to the 160D...
  Or should i just stop dreaming right now and save up for the 160DS?


----------



## drez

160 DS is OK but not the be all and end all some might make it out to be.  Personally I find the bass too warm and bloomy with LCD-2.  Midrange and treble were quite refined though.
   
  The Burson does however have a better volume control than the E one.  You will probably have more fun rolling opamps in the E one though.
   
  Burson resale is also good.  Personally I wouldn't pay more than $400 for the E one though.
   
  I think you will be hard pressed to find someone who owns both - maybe a meet might be a good chance?


----------



## MdMa

Will the E1 be able to drive my AKG 601's?
   
  I am also looking at getting the KRK Rokit 6's which come in both passive and powered. http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-6.html
   
  Now I am a bit noobish in the area, is it unfavourable to use powered speakers with the E1 or any other amp for that matter?
  If so, how would I hookup E1 to the passive Rokit 6 which only has a 5-way binding post input?


----------



## ultramic

Ok, so after reading through 34 pages, can someone tell me if the E1 has an analogue volume control ?
   
  If not, is a digital volume control a bad thing ? I've heard of people saying that it cuts out bits ?


----------



## audionewbieyao

I believe it's analogue. Period.
  If you listen carefully, it's still not that linear and presents the character of common analogue VR controller.


----------



## adsmithy

Hi,
   
  Has anyone tried updating the driver?
   
  My driver is version 7.0.8.2158
   
  The latest driver on the Asus site is 7.12.8.2158.
   
  I've run the driver setup but my driver version has not changed...
   
  It does say it's the "first release", so maybe I already have the latest version?
   
  Thanks,
  adsmithy


----------



## leeperry

> Originally Posted by *drez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be many dedicated reviewers looking at the Essence One so it is hard to say how it stands against the competition, but Leeperry's comment on the soundstage sounds promising.  On that, how does it compare to your Stello Eximus DP-1?


 
   
  Very different, the DP-1 has a very "live" sound, just like this mini-review says: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl_sold.pl?preatran&1324341036
   
  Everything sounds as if it were happening in a big room and you'd be standing right in the middle. It's also fully discrete, so it has a "sweet" coloration just like the 6moons review says...but not drastic THD like on those cheap discrete opamps, this is a completely different ball park here. Movies through Reclock sound absolutely out of this word 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  OTOH, the One with stock opamps has a "discreter than discrete" SS to my ears, where the DP1 likes to give a live feeling, the One puts every actor of the SS within its own mini-SS, it's kinda hard to explain but it digs for details in a very impressive way. I've definitely been stunned by the SS of this thing, it's just that I'm really not too fund of the sound of those 5532/4562 dual opamps....once my friend gets his stash of AD797B's(that were shipped last week from China), I'll give it a go again and report back


----------



## drez

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Very different, the DP-1 has a very "live" sound, just like this mini-review says: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl_sold.pl?preatran&1324341036
> 
> Everything sounds as if it were happening in a big room and you'd be standing right in the middle. It's also fully discrete, so it has a "sweet" coloration just like the 6moons review says...but not drastic THD like on those cheap discrete opamps, this is a completely different ball park here. Movies through Reclock sound absolutely out of this word
> 
> ...


 

 Cool, thanks for impressions - sounds pretty promising.  This thing puts out balanced outputs right?  Can you bypass the volume pot also?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





drez said:


> Cool, thanks for impressions - sounds pretty promising.  This thing puts out balanced outputs right?  Can you bypass the volume pot also?


 


 Yes the E1 has balanced outputs, line outs and head amp out.


----------



## jigsawPB

Anybody listen only as DAC with tube headamp?


----------



## muz640

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Very different, the DP-1 has a very "live" sound, just like this mini-review says: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl_sold.pl?preatran&1324341036
> 
> Everything sounds as if it were happening in a big room and you'd be standing right in the middle. It's also fully discrete, so it has a "sweet" coloration just like the 6moons review says...but not drastic THD like on those cheap discrete opamps, this is a completely different ball park here. Movies through Reclock sound absolutely out of this word
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Lee thanks for your input, look forward to your further experience with the Dac. Obviously your comparing it to the Stello Eximus which is an unknown quantity to most people at the moment. Can you say how it compares to other Dacs/headphone amps you've tried, budget or otherwise? As i myself im trying to get a handle on the sound balance of the Asus (for use with HD650/active speakers). As for the price it seems to compare very well with the Benchmark Dac.(Ive had a few Dacs with the same functionality, Benchmark, Matrix Mini, MDAC and the Dacmagic Plus).
   
  Where does it stand in the in relation to other Dacs you've tried, worth the money, a good all rounder?


----------



## muz640

Does anyone know if you can use the XLR and RCA at the same time? ie XLR to the monitors, RCAs to subs.


----------



## audionewbi

I just broke my Fiio E10 and the E7 so I need something like this. Anyone know how good are these in terms of amping the akg k702.  I really enjoyed the way E10 was dealing with the akg. I was planning to buy the Burson HA-160 and use it with my Bresford DAC but this looks a lot more compact and the XLR out means I can use the XLR connection of the studio monitors that I got.

 Any idea guys, appreciate it greatly.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I just broke my Fiio E10 and the E7 so I need something like this. Anyone know how good are these in terms of amping the akg k702.  I really enjoyed the way E10 was dealing with the akg. I was planning to buy the Burson HA-160 and use it with my Bresford DAC but this looks a lot more compact and the XLR out means I can use the XLR connection of the studio monitors that I got.
> 
> Any idea guys, appreciate it greatly.


 

 I ran a search for you.
  There are two people who have reported having / using the Asus with the Q701.
  Pretty much the same thing as your K702. See posts #334 and #460 in this thread.
  PM them and ask them directly.
   
  I have never heard the Asus DAC/amp, I do own the K702.
  The HA-160 is one of the most excellent amps that has the power to drive the K702 to it's full potential.
  I've heard this pairing multiple times and it is wonderful. Of course the source matters too. Your's would be different.


----------



## audionewbi

Thank you for your reply. The reason why I am interested is I think if this product was produce by any other smaller company the product might get much more positive attention and the price would be much higher. This things is loaded with features. 

 The PMing begins 
  Quote: 





livewire said:


> I ran a search for you.
> There are two people who have reported having / using the Asus with the Q701.
> Pretty much the same thing as your K702. See posts #334 and #460 in this thread.
> PM them and ask them directly.
> ...


----------



## midnightfox

I’ve been using the Asus Xonar Essence One to power up my Beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium 600 ohm headphones and there sounding amazing !!


----------



## audionewbi

I was thinking of essense One, it is featured packed but never used it. * I had a burson HA-160 and I love how it sounds with k702. I tried many headphones, the D5000 and HD 600 to me akg k702 is what I liked. I sold the HA-160 due to finance issues and bought a bresford caiman later. I love the DAC and I use it mostly as a preamp but it just doesnt do justice to the k702. Now I have the cash to spend it. I can spend up to $900. I need both and amp and a DAC.  I dont need a preamp.*


----------



## pumbaa32

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I was thinking of essense One, it is featured packed but never used it. * I had a burson HA-160 and I love how it sounds with k702. I tried many headphones, the D5000 and HD 600 to me akg k702 is what I liked. I sold the HA-160 due to finance issues and bought a bresford caiman later. I love the DAC and I use it mostly as a preamp but it just doesnt do justice to the k702. Now I have the cash to spend it. I can spend up to $900. I need both and amp and a DAC.  I dont need a preamp.*


 

 Currently owning both the STX and the One, i find the headphone amp on the One while powerful enough to drive almost every headphone, too bassy even when compared to STX's (maybe it's because of the DAC too). The volume knobs feel very low quality on hands and the headphone one has channel imbalance at low volume.
   
  For 900$ i would go with the AudioLab MDAC which is more neutral sounding, to my ears ofc.


----------



## JavierS

Can anyone owning a One please confirm whether it accepts 176.4KHz sampling rate through USB in ASIO/bit perfect mode?


----------



## audionewbi

^anything over 96 from what I have read must be bypassed using the c-media software. Anything less than 96 resolution can be done without the need to install the c-media software.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





pumbaa32 said:


> Currently owning both the STX and the One, i find the headphone amp on the One while powerful enough to drive almost every headphone, too bassy even when compared to STX's (maybe it's because of the DAC too). The volume knobs feel very low quality on hands and the headphone one has channel imbalance at low volume.
> 
> For 900$ i would go with the AudioLab MDAC which is more neutral sounding, to my ears ofc.


 
  thank you.


----------



## JavierS

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> ^anything over 96 from what I have read must be bypassed using the c-media software. Anything less than 96 resolution can be done without the need to install the c-media software.


 
   
  The question was precisely if those drivers work as asked, I know you need UAC2 drivers for Windows to support >96KHz but there are some others devices based on the same CM6631 C-Media chip stating no 176.4KHz support but I'm not sure if that is only through SPDIF or if affects USB too even with drivers.


----------



## silverbox

Is this a good dac/amp for PRO 900?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





pumbaa32 said:


> Currently owning both the STX and the One, i find the headphone amp on the One while powerful enough to drive almost every headphone, too bassy even when compared to STX's (maybe it's because of the DAC too). The volume knobs feel very low quality on hands and the headphone one has channel imbalance at low volume.
> 
> For 900$ i would go with the AudioLab MDAC which is more neutral sounding, to my ears ofc.


 


 And people wonder why I keep recomending just using the digital volume control. You will never get channel imbalance with a digital volume control. Channel imbalance is just one problem with analog volumes, There is a host of them actually but not present in every system. I've been over them before so I won't go into them here. Analog volume in a perfect world  with perfect manufacturing & tolerances as well as execution by the final product manufacturer would yeald as good as if not better performance in many areas but we don't live in a perfect world & digital volume controls offer a ton of real world advantages over the more common quality & execution of analog volume control in this day & age.
   
  I've been around audio including high end audio for a good 30 years so I've tried a lot of things & have found what works best for me at least. I'm sticking with my Essense STX digital volume control & all as with very minor & very inexpensive mods it rises to a level of sonic performance that would leave most even "high end DAC's" in the dust.


----------



## Gabrielisc

So I have had the essence one for a few months now, personally im going to recommend you guys to get a seperate DAC (whether its the STX or the Schiit Bifrost or whatever you think is best for you) and get a lovelycube/matrix m-stage.
   
  The essence one is strong enough to power my HD800, but its def not the same as when I used a Lehmann Black cube.


----------



## yodjone

Am I missing something here? Installed the drivers, I can get upto 192 but can't get bit perfect even when i install asio for foobar etc. I can't see an option to enable asio or to confirm asio is enabled even when I run ASIO4ALL
   
  I am aware there is no software driver settings for EQ, and these types of amps are probably not for what I want (i wanted similar sound to my essence STX, with volume control for my meridian M33 speakers) I get volume control now, but even with software EQ's my sound still sounds quite 'flat' and not as sharp as my essence stx
   
  What am I doing wrong to not be able to get bit perfect? Any suggestions welcome. PS. i didnt uninstall my past drivers but I don't think that will prevent me from getting bit perfect?


----------



## yodjone

edit: got bit perfect working for winamp, good guide here if anyones interested http://www.aqvox.de/Asio-USB-Audio-installation-e.htm
   
  however, i can still not get foobar2k working with bit perfect, despite using the DLL plugin provided


----------



## jigsawPB

Quote: 





gabrielisc said:


> So I have had the essence one for a few months now, personally im going to recommend you guys to get a seperate DAC (whether its the STX or the Schiit Bifrost or whatever you think is best for you) and get a lovelycube/matrix m-stage.
> 
> The essence one is strong enough to power my HD800, but its def not the same as when I used a Lehmann Black cube.


 

 So again two different devices are better than one (One)?


----------



## yodjone

Ok so now that I finally have bit perfect mode working, i noticed it takes a good 1-2 second each time i switch a track, is this normal processing speed times? Any way to speed it up? Also if i switch a track too fast the bit perfect light drops off (although it may still be playing in bit perfect mode) i have to take my time between switching them (ie. stop one track, wait a second then press play on new track - may be something to do with the resampling?) before the light will show. Do you think running it through a coax SPDIF STX before i put it through the essence might help things or would the delay still be there? And would there be any difference in 320kb mp3 playback on 44.1khz/bit perfect vs 192khz/bit perfect?
   
  also, does anyone think asus will ever add a native driver EQ? because having flat sounds for everything unless its an application specific like foobar or winamp sounds can be a bit of a drag! As some people stated though it definetly sounds 'warmer' when playing tracks in an optimized EQ - I do prefer my sounds to be distinguished with clarity though.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





yodjone said:


> Ok so now that I finally have bit perfect mode working, i noticed it takes a good 1-2 second each time i switch a track, is this normal processing speed times? Any way to speed it up? Also if i switch a track too fast the bit perfect light drops off (although it may still be playing in bit perfect mode) i have to take my time between switching them (ie. stop one track, wait a second then press play on new track - may be something to do with the resampling?) before the light will show. Do you think running it through a coax SPDIF STX before i put it through the essence might help things or would the delay still be there? And would there be any difference in 320kb mp3 playback on 44.1khz/bit perfect vs 192khz/bit perfect?
> 
> also, does anyone think asus will ever add a native driver EQ? because having flat sounds for everything unless its an application specific like foobar or winamp sounds can be a bit of a drag! As some people stated though it definetly sounds 'warmer' when playing tracks in an optimized EQ - I do prefer my sounds to be distinguished with clarity though.


 
  Try adjusting the buffers to improve response times.
   
  As for the EQ, once you apply any effect such as EQ your audio is no longer  bit-perfect. 
  However, for sake of discussion you could use an internal sound card to send S/Pdif sgnal to the Essence 1 as this would give you the ability to have EQ or other effects.  So it is possible to get EQ..etc.


----------



## Gabrielisc

Yes, pretty much, I believe the asus essence one is mostly an external dac with capabilities of a headphone amp.
  Dont think you can compare the amp on the essence on with the amp on a Lehmann black cube/lovely cube


----------



## kabukiman

I'll be receiving my XO soon and would like to listen to my turntable through it if possible. Given that it has not line inputs, what would be the best way to connect a turntable to the XO?


----------



## yodjone

Quote: 





> Try adjusting the buffers to improve response times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  i don't have a Spdif coax cable handy on me, but from what i remember, doesnt running SPDIF take away the ability to use the EQ in the asus software? (Just from what I can remember) ?


----------



## morfeeus

*Would like mention that the ESSENCE ONE will be reviewed in the near future at........*http://www.computeraudiophile.com/


----------



## gardener

Yes it would be good to hear a current, detailed and un-biased review of pro's/con's of this unit, it is priced quite affordable, if it can cut the mustard then maybe


----------



## leeperry

"We Have Explosive" 


   
  more feedback later


----------



## sagatman

You are right. I varified it on my Stax headphone amp just now. Analog volume knob degrades sound!

  
  Quote: 





germanium said:


> And people wonder why I keep recomending just using the digital volume control. You will never get channel imbalance with a digital volume control. Channel imbalance is just one problem with analog volumes, There is a host of them actually but not present in every system. I've been over them before so I won't go into them here. Analog volume in a perfect world  with perfect manufacturing & tolerances as well as execution by the final product manufacturer would yeald as good as if not better performance in many areas but we don't live in a perfect world & digital volume controls offer a ton of real world advantages over the more common quality & execution of analog volume control in this day & age.
> 
> I've been around audio including high end audio for a good 30 years so I've tried a lot of things & have found what works best for me at least. I'm sticking with my Essense STX digital volume control & all as with very minor & very inexpensive mods it rises to a level of sonic performance that would leave most even "high end DAC's" in the dust.


----------



## mikai

I would like to know how the Essence One compares to Nuforce Icon HDP as dac/amp or only dac to use with some amp. Im currently using Sennheiser HD25 and Genelec monitors.


----------



## vrln

leeperry: any updates on opamp rolling? Highly interested!
   
  This little box seems seriously nice value... If it were assembled by hand in a western country the price would easily be close to 1000.


----------



## leeperry

vrln said:


> leeperry: any updates on opamp rolling?


 
  they've just been installed, will fire it up later: 


   
   
*EDIT:* humm, once you inject Scott Wurcer's(AD797's daddy) soul into the best design Asus had to offer, it literally
   
  I've advised my friend to leave it w/ me for a few days, for mere observation purposes of course. I will come back in due time w/ more thorough impressions


----------



## Miab

Does anyone know if the analogue section is in class A or not?


----------



## Minitrox

Well , I have one HD650 with cardas cable and my Nuforce HDP . I'd like to improve my DAC/Head-amp .
  This Asus is better than my HDP ? 
  I am willing to buy the TEAC UD-H01 , I think it's better the asus essence one .
  Help me.
  Thanks.


----------



## gardener

anyone using this unit?
  doesn't seem to have the interest that the stx/st has


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





miab said:


> Does anyone know if the analogue section is in class A or not?


 


 Not very likely stock. Most opamps are biased class AB from the factory & few manufacturers change that. The ones that do bias the output stage to class A do so externally to single ended class A through a resistor leading to power supply thus ensuring that only one of the output transistors is doing any work at all. Most opamps now days perform very well without such tricks & will deliver wider dynamics in the class AB mode. Many early opamps did perform poorly in class AB mode but that is largely in the past now.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





drez said:


> 160 DS is OK but not the be all and end all some might make it out to be.  Personally I find the bass too warm and bloomy with LCD-2.  Midrange and treble were quite refined though.
> 
> The Burson does however have a better volume control than the E one.  You will probably have more fun rolling opamps in the E one though.
> 
> ...


 


 While the bursons volume control is technically better it offers fewer volume choices which could work against some users if thier phone are more sensitive than normally expected with this unit. you need 50-100 volume choises to be able to find the right volume for the different music taking into account the different sensitivities of different phones. The Burson only offers 24 volume choices.


----------



## our martin

Quote: 





germanium said:


> There is no advantage to a 32 bit DAC, it's all marketing. No 32 bit DAC exceeds 24 bit true resolution, in fact they still haven't even reached the limitation of 24 bit audio though the Sabre DAC come close at about 22 bit resolution but then again so does the Burr Brown  PCM1792A in mono mode & it is a 24 bit DAC. With the Burr brown chip it is easier for the manufacturer or in some cases the consummer to configure the sound signature compared to the Sabre DAC.
> 
> There is nothing in the $399 range that will exceed the specs of 24 bit audio even with a 32 bit DAC & probably never will be. It will take a massive amount of money & even better 32 bit DAC's to exceed 24 bit resolution & all of that will be for naught because the human ear won't be able to hear it anyway, it can't even hear the limits of 24 bit. The honest truth is that even if they did come up with a DAC that could exceed 24 bit resolution we are already bumping the limits of analog audio as the thermal noise of resistors (a passive componant) does not allow with current technology to exceed 24 bit resolution.


 

 the audio lab m dac users sabre 32 chips if your interested...krell use sabre 32 chips that's not marketing my friend it's the best possible sound you can get..average speakers and average sacd players and amps will give you average sound..if you get the chance to ever go to the ces shows have a listen to krell my friend and you will be blown away how a sabre 32 chip can sound..


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





our martin said:


> the audio lab m dac users sabre 32 chips if your interested...krell use sabre 32 chips that's not marketing my friend it's the best possible sound you can get..average speakers and average sacd players and amps will give you average sound..if you get the chance to ever go to the ces shows have a listen to krell my friend and you will be blown away how a sabre 32 chip can sound..


 

 While the Sabre chip may be very good I don't see it as an improvement over the best of the Burr brown chips, maybe equal but not better. The Burr Browns are extremely good. I have managed to get really excellent sound out of the Essense STX which uses the top Burr Brown chip with just minor modification.


----------



## our martin

i am getting a new gaming pc from cyber power the black mamba 3 with twin gtx 590 graphic chips i thought about getting the asus one dac headphone amp but i am going for the audio lab  m-dac instead because of the sabre 32 chips i know burr brown are good because i have got an hifiman hm 801 and that's got good sound and naim use them aswell but believe me they are not as good as sabre 32 chips krell use these chips and krell is the best possible sound you can get if you ever get the chance to hear the krell evolution ones with the krell cypher sacd player you will be blown away how good they sound together especially with the westlake audio tower sm1s but still it's good to see you are enjoying listening to good sound my friend...i am also putting every thing through a pioneer susano av receiver and pioneer s81 7.1 surround sound speaker system and the biggest samsung d8000 plasma i can get...


----------



## our martin

if my pc has got 7.1 sound and i feed it through a audio lab m-dac will i be able to use grado ps500 headphones and still get 7.1 surround sound? i am using a yeti 24 bit mic to do the voice.. i want my headphone and mic setup to sound as good as my av and speaker set up for late night gaming i know that turtle beach do a dss2 7.1 dolby surround  box and that might have to be the route i will have to take  p.s i am getting a samsung 75 inch es8000 instead of going the 3 screen route this is mainly for battlefield 3 my favourite game..


----------



## audionewbieyao

Asus Xonar Essence One Review (w/ Raysonic CD228 & Audeze LCD2)
  1. Introduction2. Asus Xonar Essence One3. Setting up the System4. Asus Xonar Essence One (Super High Res Gallery)5. Asus Xonar Essence One Testing6. Closing Thoughts7. View All Pages 






  ​ REVIEW SCORE:


February 1st, 2012 at 9:56 am - AuthorZardon   

_*Today we are looking at the latest ‘audiophile’ grade Asus Xonar Essence One external soundcard and digital to analogue converter. The Essence series of products have targeted the enthusiast and audiophile user now for some time, using high grade components such as BurrBrown DAC chips. Today we analyse the latest *__*Xonar Essence One from ASUS in a very challenging environment, paired up with a flagship, limited edition Valve/Tube CD player and award winning Audeze LCD2 headphones.*_


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  

  The Xonar Essence One can be purchased directly from ARIA for £342.84 inc vat.
   
*Pros:*

 Very competitive price point considering the versatility and audio quality.
 Built to the highest standards.
 Bass response is immense.
 op-amps can be upgraded.
 mid range is impressive.
 expansive soundstage.
   
*Cons:*

 USB sound quality isn’t going to showcase this product to the full.
 High end frequencies need controlled by a quality source.
 We would love a luxury model with true balanced headphone output.
   
*Kitguru says: The Essence One offers a lot for the modest asking price. If you take audio seriously then this should be at the top of your list.*


----------



## VCRHIFI

Thanks for sharing the link to the latest review!


----------



## kn19h7

How's the build quality of this? (especially those plastic buttons on the front..)
  And I've heard that it will auto switch to usb input on each startup, is it true even when usb is not connected?


----------



## qqexpress

after having own the asus xonar essence one for quite some time, i find that im quite pleased with the sound and totally agree with some other reviewers that its pretty bass heavy. the cheap plastic that asus decided to use for the E1 is a complete turn off, but the overall build quality - is pretty solid and it built like a tank. and yeah, it would auto start in the usb option even when the usb is not plugged in. i really dont think u get alot for the price point, id much rather put my money on the yulong d100.


----------



## kn19h7

thanks for reply~
  hmm... those points are somewhat annoying ==


----------



## Replicant666

Mine starts up with the last input selected, have you updated to the latest firmware? I agree re the bass comments I wish it wasn't quite as bass heavy but other than that I'm very pleased with the quality of the unit


----------



## Wage

*Would the Essence One be a horrible match with a Denon AH-D7000?*
   
  I plan on getting a Denon AH-D7000 this year. In anticipation of this, I bought my girlfriend an Asus Xonar Essence ST with modded opamps so that I could test how well it worked for the pair of Grado SR225i's I got her (which are low impedance like the D7000s but still yielded a very noticeable difference in sound quality versus onboard audio). I'm reading throughout this thread that the Essence One is "bass heavy" to some owners, which is fine by me; I need an ample amount of bass accuracy to go along with my movie watching. *But will the combo of the D7000's great bass and the Essence One's great bass be too much, even with opamp rolling?*
   
  I am not like most users on this forum: I have bills to pay, an old car to replace, and dreams and aspirations which extend beyond owning the "perfect" audio system. But I *do* like to buy quality things and am willing to go crazy on D7000s (which I have wanted since 2008) with an expensive sound card to match. Just wanted to make that clear, because this will probably be my last headphone-related purchase for the next 5+ years so I don't want to **** it up.


----------



## anetode

The Essence One is a decent value and would work great with a huge range of headphones, including the D7000.
   
  Build quality wise you'd have to top 1k for any noticeable improvement.


----------



## Wage

Wow, wasn't expecting anyone to respond so soon. Thank you, anetode.

 Also, I noticed many people (including the most recent review) mentioning that the Essence One's USB input does not yield the best sound quality from it. *How am I supposed to hook up the Essence One to a computer without sacrificing audio quality? *Or is this an impossibility?


----------



## midnightfox

@kn19h7
 "How's the build quality of this? (especially those plastic buttons on the front..)"
  
  The buttons aren't that bad in my opinion. They might not be made of solid metal materials like the other DAC's in the $1000+ range but they don't feel that cheap and flimsy as some users have pointed out.
  Overall the build quality is exceptional and has plenty of good features for the price point.


----------



## trazom

Quote: 





wage said:


> Wow, wasn't expecting anyone to respond so soon. Thank you, anetode.
> 
> Also, I noticed many people (including the most recent review) mentioning that the Essence One's USB input does not yield the best sound quality from it. *How am I supposed to hook up the Essence One to a computer without sacrificing audio quality? *Or is this an impossibility?


 
   
I use my  Essence One with USB and I found the sound quality very good. 
I wanted to connect my Essence One with my Essence STX but we advised against it. So if you lose in sound quality with USB and lose also with other audio outputs present I do not understand how to operate optimally.


----------



## Wage

Uh yeah, exactly. Maybe it's just because I'm an IT and not a sound engineer, but I'd like to know what else I will need to buy alongside the Essence One to get it to sound 100% of its potential.

 I use my PC as my main source, btw, similar to trazom, so an A/V Receiver is kinda out of the question unless that will benefit my PC in some way I'm not aware of. (Like I said, I'm new to high end audio.)


----------



## muz640

Quote: 





wage said:


> Uh yeah, exactly. Maybe it's just because I'm an IT and not a sound engineer, but I'd like to know what else I will need to buy alongside the Essence One to get it to sound 100% of its potential.
> 
> I use my PC as my main source, btw, similar to trazom, so an A/V Receiver is kinda out of the question unless that will benefit my PC in some way I'm not aware of. (Like I said, I'm new to high end audio.)


 

 I have the latest driver installed that seem to be fine via USB. Apart from one or two little niggles (lack of digital inputs, high gain) this is good Dac, for the price the quality is superb, it's got it own character but its very enjoyable via the monitors and excellent with headphones (HD650s).
   
  Waiting for Leeperry's thoughts on the opamp swap!


----------



## Tablix

Wage, if you purchase the ASUS Essence One you will then need to consider how you want to deliver the sound.  You have two options either connect the E1 to an amp and bookshelf speakers or you can connect active speakers directly to the E1.


----------



## our martin

has the asus essence one got different sound modes like 7.1 surround sound or anything it should have really because it is made for the pc not hifi or will it make normal stereo headphones like grado ps500s 7.1 surround sound if it did all this i would snap it up.. i like the way it looks aswell it wil go with my mouse mat and racer mouse and keyboard and lights up a nice colour blue..you can buy a dss2 surround sound box that makes stereo headphones 7.1..


----------



## trazom

I kept my Essence STX for my headset with microphone that I use in games. 
Do you think the best way to get good sound is to connect the  Essence One with the USB or connect to my Essence STX? 
Thank you specify because I'm confused.


----------



## our martin

i am going to use grado ps 500 with a yeti 24 bit mic instead of a headset.. i am using a surround sound headset now they are still good but i like the grado sound i use ps1000 for djing because they sound like the speakers on the martin logan sound systems in all the clubs..the pc i am using now has got dolby home theatre v3 which is good but the new one i am getting from maingear has got aphex epic audio engine studio quality sound and i might have to use a dss2 to make the grados 7.1 surround i was wondering if the asus essence one can do this? if you play battlefield 3 and use normal headphones with a headphone amp you can't work out were the chopper is..i know senns are good headsets but i want to use my grados with a 24bit mic..


----------



## Wage

our martin, maybe someone else who actually owns the Essence One can chime in:

 I went ahead and read the Essence One user manual last night (online at Asus' website), and I saw nothing to suggest surround sound modes like what the Essence ST(X) offers. For what you have in mind, you'd probably be better off with an Essence ST Deluxe 7.1 Edition (with the Xonar H6 extension card that boosts it to 7.1 surround capabilities). The Essence ST comes stock with "virtual" surround 7.1, but the extension card is required if you eventually plan on installing analog 7.1. If you never plan on doing this, skip the Xonar H6.  EDIT: *I remember while installing my girlfriend's Essence ST that the headphone amp input and microphone input cannot be used at the same time.* This would suck for you, because you would be forced to use the high quality microphone input + RCA inputs for your headphones.
   
  All I use for communication in PC gaming is a wired XBox 360 controller (which I sit on my desk -- I play with the mouse and keyboard) with a 1st party microphone plugged into it. I use this at the same time as my audiophile headphones by simply putting the headset in front of my headphones' headband. How much is my headset? $2 + the controller, and everyone can hear me clear during competitive games. You don't need ultra high quality microphones in first person shooters, even when playing competitively: to increase quality, you're better off using a program external to the game so that you and your team have a dedicated high quality sound connection (which is in fact what most competitive teams do). I can see how the great microphone would help if you were making Youtube videos involving gameplay, but that can be dubbed in after-the-fact and cleaned up in software.


----------



## Wage

Quote: 





tablix said:


> Wage, if you purchase the ASUS Essence One you will then need to consider how you want to deliver the sound.  You have two options either connect the E1 to an amp and bookshelf speakers or you can connect active speakers directly to the E1.


 


  Tablix,

 I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that for optimum PC connection quality I should connect the Essence One like OPTION A or OPTION B?
   
  OPTION A: Source (PC) ==>* USB ==> AMP ==> Asus Xonar Essence One* ==> Headphones/Speakers/Whatever Output

 OPTION B: Source (PC) ==> *USB ==> Asus Xonar Essence One ==> AMP *==> Headphones/Speakers/Whatever Output
   
  To be honest, I planned to connect the Essence One as follows:

 OPTION C: Source (PC) ==> USB ==> Asus Xonar Essence One ==> Denon AH-D7000 Headphones & 2.1 Bookshelf Speakers

 If you were talking about something else entirely, please help, as I'm new to high end audio. I did not plan on buying a separate amp on top of the Xonar One, but I will consider it if necessary. I will be using the Essence One for both headphones and speakers; however, I require PC connectivity because that is my main source (and will remain my main source from PC upgrade to PC upgrade).


----------



## trazom

The Essence One is DAC and an amplifier it seems. Why include in the connection diagram an additional amplifier? 
The amplifier included with the Essence One is so bad it takes around with the best amplifier?


----------



## our martin

you can just use a pair of stereo headphones with your asus essence one..if you want to hook the essence one up to speakers you will have to use powered speakers..they are loads of powered speakers to choose from.. a good pair would be audio engine a2 or alesis m1a or you could get anything in the krk rokit range and if you wanted the very best you could get the martin logan electrostats..but please don't buy something that you won't need like an amplifier..it will sound just as good through a good pair of powered speakers no need to spend over the two hundred pound/dollar mark..and wage i like the grado sound i will have to use a dss2 to make the grados 7.1 and the yeti 24bit mic goes with the grados(same colour)and the new pc i am building uses aphex epic audio engine studio quality 24 bit sound and i am sticking with that it's supposed to be very good never heard it though..i do use a surround sound headset now when i am gaming wage my pc has got dolby home theatre v3 crysis 2 sounds very good i agree..but my new build is a maingear and i want it to sound the best i possible can..if you have already got 2.1 bookshelf speakers and happy with them keep them but you could get speakers that sound as good as your denon headphones..nice choice of headphone my friend..what hifis favourite headphones and they would know a thing or two about headphones..good look with the essence one and i think denons won't be too bass heavy the tank on battlefield3 will sound glorious....a pair of speakers that would sound as good as my grado ps1000s are a pair of mordaunt short performance six that retail at six and a half grand from richer sounds england not cheap..believe me get them denons my friend and treat yourself but getting speakers to sound as good as them i think you will have to do a bit of overtime or if we are being honest just get them headphones plugged in and forget about speakers if you want them 7.1 get the dss2 that's what i am going to do..and you won't be able to hear the phone ringing when you are having a one on one with another tank on the battlefield which is a bonus or you could enable skype!


----------



## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





muz640 said:


> Does anyone know if you can use the XLR and RCA at the same time? ie XLR to the monitors, RCAs to subs.


 


  anybody noes the answer for tis? i would like to know as well. thanks


----------



## muz640

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> anybody noes the answer for tis? i would like to know as well. thanks


 


  Yes you can use both at the same time.


----------



## Wage

Hahaha, what you say about doing overtime for speakers that sound as good as the Denon's is true, our martin .
   
  After reading your post I'm going to buy them. Thank you for making my day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, I too enjoy the Grado sound, and up until now that's all I've bought. But I also enjoy watching movies and playing games. Grados are 10/10 for music hands down (at least to me), and I just bought my girlfriend a 225i, but if I'm going to be watching an action movie or playing a game, I need that startling feeling of a subwoofer when I can't hook my speakers up late at night. Thank you for your speaker recommendations, btw. I'll probably hit you up again when I'm ready to upgrade my bookshelf set (because even though they're decent, I really do want to replace them with something really good).


----------



## anetode

Wage, the main concern is on the software side of things. If you use kernel streaming or wasapi or somesuch you will get the unaltered signal. There are plugins for most major media players that support this and you also have to consider whether you want any post-processing settings left on in the player itself.
   
  Once the signal is sent, be it through USB, optical, or coaxial cable, it is filtered through a PLL to remove any jitter to way below audible levels. Then all you have left is Asus One goodness. So enjoy and don't worry too much about it, but if you do, pick up a copy of the _Art of Digital Audio_ by John Watkinson and you'll see how far digital audio has come, including overcoming many problems which are discussed to death on forums.


----------



## Wage

+rep

 Thank you very much.


----------



## ROBSCIX

After reading a few posts there seems to be a bit of confusion surrounding the I/O through USB or S/Pdif.
   
  The E1 USB implementation is asynchronous so it does not suffer issue for jitter in the same was as other implementations do.
  The USB also offers Bitperfect audio through ASIO drivers in your audio players.


----------



## leeperry

muz640 said:


> Waiting for Leeperry's thoughts on the opamp swap!


 

 I'm late but that's because I'm working on a full blown review, as I think the ONE really deserves it. Either way, AD797B is the preferred opamp of most of the hardcorest opamp'holics and I can clearly confirm that an army of it won't disappoint in the ONE =)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





trazom said:


> I kept my Essence STX for my headset with microphone that I use in games.
> Do you think the best way to get good sound is to connect the  Essence One with the USB or connect to my Essence STX?
> Thank you specify because I'm confused.


 
  If I am understanding what you are asking correctly, you can use on device for input and the other for output providing they play nice together.
   
  What you would do is:
  Connect your headphones to the Essence One and set the Essence One for output in the Windows control panel. 
  Connect the mic to the STX and set the Essence STX for input (recording) in the windows control panel.  .
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## trazom

Thank you for your response Robscix.
I wanted to know if it was better to connect  the Essence independently or connect  the One Essence with STX. 
Excuse my English very clumsy.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





trazom said:


> Thank you for your response Robscix.
> I wanted to know if it was better to connect  the Essence independently or connect  the One Essence with STX.
> Excuse my English very clumsy.


 

 I think it would be better to connect the E1 independently in your situation but there are many ways you can go.


----------



## FrederikS|TPU

Isn't the AD797 design available in a normal DIP-8 package? I am asking because a Danish site is listing some AD797ANZ and I am very tempted.
   
  I am sorry if it is a stupid question.
   
  Cheers,
  Fred


----------



## leeperry

the stock opamps are duals, AD797 is a single...you have to use two of them soldered onto an adapter or you will fry the ONE.


----------



## FrederikS|TPU

Is there any place online where you can buy them presoldered and tested?
   
  Cheers,
 Fred


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





frederiks|tpu said:


> Is there any place online where you can buy them presoldered and tested?
> 
> Cheers,
> Fred


 


  The AD797 are single channel opamps in DIP8 and SOIC8 package chips.
   
  The units you mentioned the AD797AN are DIP8 chips so you require 2 and a dual DIP8 adapter.
  You can find the AD797 in DIP8 and SOIC 8 and there are adapters available for each type of chip.
   
  To note, many suggest the AD797BR for audio use which are SOIC (surface mount) devices so again for the Essence, you would require 2 chips and an adapter for each position you want to change.
   
  If you need further clarification, let me know and I can send you some pics of both types of chips and adapters.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





frederiks|tpu said:


> Is there any place online where you can buy them presoldered and tested?


 

 Got mine off ebay. These were used, though(but at least they're fully burned in ^^). AD797BRZ is pricey if you buy it new...and good luck soldering the 22 chips and 11 adapters


----------



## vrln

Any updates on the review? I got a good trade in deal for a HD 800, so it looks like I'm in need of some headphone gear again. I miss late night listening, even though otherwise I'm happy having gone the speakers route.
   
  By the way, on paper at least the Essence One looks like a nice budget combo for a HD 800: good bass and slightly recessed treble. That's exactly what the HD 800 needs. Anyone tried the Essence One with the Sennheiser flagship yet?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Any updates on the review? I got a good trade in deal for a HD 800, so it looks like I'm in need of some headphone gear again. I miss late night listening, even though otherwise I'm happy having gone the speakers route.
> 
> By the way, on paper at least the Essence One looks like a nice budget combo for a HD 800: good bass and slightly recessed treble. That's exactly what the HD 800 needs. Anyone tried the Essence One with the Sennheiser flagship yet?


 


  I used the HD650 on the unit to test the power on the amp circuit and the E1 drives the 650's great. 
  I am not sure if that info helps with your questions or not.
  I wouldn't say the E1 has "recessed mids" but it does have a balanced more laidback smooth signature in comparison to some other sources so it should be a good match with the HD800's.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





vrln said:


> on paper at least the Essence One looks like a nice budget combo


 

  Once you install top of the range opamps, bang for bucks is stellar to my ears. The only drawback would be the cheap pots when using low impedance/highly efficient headphones, but hey a good stepped pot costs +$100 and many fairly expensive amps use ALPS pots...can't get it all I guess, and you're already getting a killer sounding package for the money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  the SS is as 3D sounding as you could possibly dream of, the headamp is very very capable, the coax input is reclocked by a fairly high-end DSP and doesn't glitch like hell when you switch sample rates(which is one of the reasons why I started to hate coax more and more..CS841x and DIR9001 do make very nasty glitches IME)....Asus did a "coup de maître" IMHO, I could only hope for a single better stepped pot w/ a relay that would disable the line-out when the HP out is in use(like on the DP-1)...that would save them some money, and we'd be better off w/ one single stepped pot instead of 2 ALPS.
   
  But, hey, that's their FIRST standalone DAC....and the imaging is really world class. Dual mono from start to end(it's using two LME49600 high current buffers on the HP out) pays in cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The mids are ANYTHING but recessed when using AD797B's, but I'm an ortho head so my phones have very upfront mids anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And ppl can rave about async USB 2.0 all they want but at the end of the day, coax/I2S and USB 1.0 are the only ways to have proper galvanic isolation. The non-glitchy coax input is a God send to my ears...you can go for the whole shebang: ADuM4160/ADuM5000/TE8802L and you get glitch-free isolated 44.1/48/88.2/96kHz all the way..Mr Dan Lavry has repeated many times that anything >88.2kHz is overkill, so it doesn't really get any better than that to connect a computer to a DAC IMO...especially when the DAC reclocks internally.
   
  It's also a monitoring grade DAC to my ears, so the GIGO principle very much applies. It doesn't have the sweet sound of the Stello Eximus DP-1, the harsh truth will hurt your ears if your source material is not up to par.


----------



## puzl

Sorry for being a little lazy and not searching through all the pages, but can someone answer this as simply as possible: is is worth upgrading my current STX to the Essence One? I'm in the market for a non-PCI-E computer DAC, for use in a production studio environment (all software, no need for external midi/cv devices) and I want the option of portability. I LOVE my STX and it is by far the best computer DAC i've heard. Sell it to me people!


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Once you install top of the range opamps, bang for bucks is stellar to my ears. The only drawback would be the ALPS pots when using low impedance/highly efficient headphones, but hey a good stepped pot costs +$100 and many fairly expensive amps use the same ALPS  pots...can't get it all I guess, and you're already getting a killer sounding package for the money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the reply! From what I´ve read it sounds pretty good even with the cheap stock opamps, that is a serious testament to the SHARC DSP/dual mono design. I´m also seriously impressed by their component choices (SHARC DSP, fully dual mono, nice transformer), simply put this would easily be more than 1k if it were hand assembled by some niche audiophile company. Perhaps even more actually, not to mention if it were made by some of those mysterious forest elves... As a consumer who has limited money, for us asian mass produced gear is just fantastic value. Asus also deserves kudos for their op-amp swapping documentation, just checked their site. It seems 8 pairs directly affect the headphone output, so if you aren´t using the DAC outputs you can get away with 16 high end single opamps... I wonder if it works with the best stereo opamps, that would be a pretty cheap upgrade, just 8. And less risk to install too, as you don´t have to order ones on adapters, the ones that you always have to double check unless you want to fry your DAC and headphones. Sure that can happen with stereo opamps too, but at least they are easier to install as you don´t have to solder the adapters.
   
  By the way, have you double-checked the pots? I´ve read, and looking at the pictures, I think they are ALPHA Taiwan, not ALPS ones. No idea how they compare to ALPS blue though. With a stepped volume pot (anyone tried to replace it with a DACT yet? ) this would be just unbelievable value.
   
  Agreed on the coax / HD music comments, I think people are so used to the standard DIR9001 etc that they think the glitches are a normal part of computer audio (which they aren´t of course). I also don´t buy music over 92kHz, no point there as it´s way beyond audible limits anyway.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





vrln said:


> From what I´ve read it sounds pretty good even with the cheap stock opamps,


 
   
  Well, "pretty good" is highly subjective. I guess it depends on your expectations and personal taste. I've rolled all the usual suspects, and nothing really compares to AD797B to my ears. A french review of the ONE came to the same conclusion that the opamps had to be swapped FWIW. AD797 based DAC's usually cost $1K/1.5K so we should thank Asus for allowing us to swap them that easily IMO. Swappable opamps cost money to manufacturers, due to the ppl who fail installing them properly and later on play stupid when the magic smoke's gone out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





vrln said:


> have you double-checked the pots? I´ve read, and looking at the pictures, I think they are ALPHA Taiwan, not ALPS ones. No idea how they compare to ALPS blue though. With a stepped volume pot (anyone tried to replace it with a DACT yet? ) this would be just unbelievable value.


 
   
  Well, they are not up to the usual top of the range +$100 stepped pots...these are the Achilles' heel of the ONE. The PCB is prolly 4 layers and I think you would have a hard time finding a compatible stepped pot w/ the same footprint...but if you find one, please let us know.
   
  I think the best bang/bucks stepped pot would be this one: https://www.google.com/search?q=2CP601S
   
  Firestone Audio put it in their "Little Country III", and it did a wonderful job there


----------



## ROBSCIX

@vrln on the subject of opamps, you will find that many that have knowledge surrounding this topic, will opt for dual single channel opamps on an adapter instead of a single dual channel chip.  The merits of this type of module have been mentioned in the opamp thread many times.
   
  You will also find that many of the higher end opamps are single channel and SOIC.  If you are interested in getting into opamps, adapters and soldering go along with it.  If you just stick to simple Dip8 dual channel opamps, you will be limited in what you can find and use.
  A dual single channel module will have improved aspect such as crosstalk over a single dual channel chip.
  You can always find a person to build modules for you, if you are not into doing the soldering.


----------



## vrln

I´ve been wanting to get into soldering / DIY stuff anyway so I guess this is the perfect excuse  Just placed an order for an Essence One. Not many options at this price range, and I want something that has good resale value. Gear like this is always easy to sell in a day if needed. 
   
  I´ll be posting a full review here later, using my only headphone (HD 800) and my speaker rig. Should be interesting. It will go against the Hegel HD20. Any tips on some dual channel DIP8 opamps worth trying? Also going to order some of those fine AD797 two-opamps-on-a-sockets! Time to start reading those op amp threads...
   
  leeperry: The Asus site is down so I can´t get the manual PDF... Any chance you could check if it´s possible to run the Essence One in a fixed output mode (XLR)? If there isn´t an option for it (that disables the pot), I guess it´s possible to just max the speaker volume pot and it´s almost the same thing, but with a slightly longer signal path (pot in the way, even though it doesn´t do much then). The specs at least state a 4V output in XLR.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Are you asking if there is a setting to fix the output?
  No, there is not but you can just max the volume output.
  Can I ask why you are doing that as are you sending the output to an amp?
   
  If you were a modder, you could add a switch to bypass the volume pot altogether.  Actually, that is a good idea.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





vrln said:


> leeperry: The Asus site is down so I can´t get the manual PDF... Any chance you could check if it´s possible to run the Essence One in a fixed output mode (XLR)? If there isn´t an option for it (that disables the pot), I guess it´s possible to just max the speaker volume pot and it´s almost the same thing, but with a slightly longer signal path (pot in the way, even though it doesn´t do much then). The specs at least state a 4V output in XLR.


 

 Sadly, you can't bypass the pots....ideally if you could find a way to do that, we could feed its  balanced output to an external balanced headamp(w/ a stepped attenuator and a gain switch)...but the only one that comes to mind is the "Linnenberg spa1", which isn't available yet and costs 1K€....more than twice the price of the ONE, duh....the diminishing returns quickly step in! Especially when a pimped ONE already sounds this good, even w/ its cheapo pots


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Essence One is a great platform for modifications if you know how to do them.
  There is a great deal of sound quality stock but there is so much more to be had with a bit of work and a few ideas.


----------



## trazom

Quote: 





robscix said:


> There is a great deal of sound quality stock but there is so much more to be had with a bit of work and a few ideas.


 
You intrigue me.  You mean with a good equalizer setting? Or what else?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





trazom said:


> You intrigue me.  You mean with a good equalizer setting? Or what else?


 
   
  No, I am talking about modding the opamps and some other ideas.  There are quite a few things you can do to boost the quality of such devices.
   
  The E1 has a very balanced signature and you don't need any type of EQ IMO.
   
  However, if you want effects such as EQ, CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone..etc
  You can process with a card and connect the output of the card to the E1 all processed audio data will be sent to the E1 for conversion.


----------



## trazom

Thank you for that clarification Robscix.




Personally I have not changed anything and I use my E1 without EQ.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





trazom said:


> Thank you for that clarification Robscix.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You don't have to mod anything as the E1 sound excellent stock.
   
  On a side note, it seems a few people around here and in other places are suggesting the Essence One is using ALPS pots for the two volume controls and this information is incorrect.
   
  The Essence One does NOT use ALPS potentiometers. 
   
  I hope that clarifies the info a bit for those interested.


----------



## leeperry

BTW, this thread seems to explain why the HP out of the ONE sounds so good: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/186188-national-lme49600-reference-design-project.html
   
  Another thread, w/ killer measurements: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/179298-wire-ultra-high-performance-headphone-amplifier-pcbs.html
   
  Its datasheet explains clearly that as usual the lower the temperature, the better the measurements....and you can find heatsinks for its TO-263 package indeed: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/DA-T263-101E/DA-T263-101E-ND/2207646
   
  After a few hours, the chassis of the ONE gets pretty warm due to the four voltage regulators off its toroidal transformer, so I went ahead and added heatsinks on top of the DSP/DAC's/headamps and S/PDIF receiver:


 


   
  I also kept reading/seeing raving feedback/real world measurements about those cardas RCA/XLR covers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFciL0qjqu0
   
  I can catch +10 wifi networks inside my apartment, so I went ahead and made "EMI shields" using thick aluminium based thermal tape + 99.8% copper tape in order to cover all unused inputs/outputs: http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/15pec88so6gnp0oxy9582sllgdbg4s2u/
   
  Also added pretty tall isolation feet so the underside would cool down more efficiently.
   
  These tweaks have substantially improved the SQ to both my friend's and my ears...either way they didn't cost us anything so placebo or not, killer bang/bucks again. YMMV


----------



## trazom

Thank you for this information leeperry.
Please excuse my ignorance but I did not know that cool regulators and protect the inputs and outputs could improve the sound.


----------



## _Adrian_

Hmmmm....
   
   
  Now I'm confused and tied :/
   
  I owned a lot of ASUS products and in fact both the laptops in the house are ASUS.
  My laptop failed on the last day of the warranty and after 3 years they gave me an RMA number shipped the laptop back to them on their account, called me back and told me they could  fix it, but a lot of the parts would be on back order so they would rather replace.
  However they would recover the old drive out of the old laptop and put in on the new laptop for me !!
  So after 3 years of oilfield abuse they gave me a NEW laptop !!!!
   
  But...
  Doing my homework, I'm looking for a desktop DAC/HA...
  I had my head set on buying a Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 and after reading I'm leaning more towards the E1 knowing the support and product ASUS makes.
  At the same time i could still achieve the signature sound by the means of a tube buffer between the DAC and Amp or Active Speakers.
   
  Quick Question for you leeperry...
  How much room is in the case ??
  I'm thinking this...


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





_adrian_ said:


> How much room is in the case ??
> I'm thinking this...


 

 I really don't see any discrete opamp fitting, you will have to use extension wires...but then it won't fit into the case anymore.

  Quote: 





trazom said:


> I did not know that cool regulators and protect the inputs and outputs could improve the sound.


 

 If you check all the datasheets of the chips that can be found inside the ONE, you will find out that heat is the enemy of SQ(and so are interferences). I didn't add any cooling to the voltage regulators, though....I believe you misread ce que j'ai écrit


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





_adrian_ said:


> How much room is in the case ??
> I'm thinking this...


 


  Not enough for those big discretes.  I played aorund with the One and some discrete opamps and there is no way those bigger modules will fit into the stock case
  There are smaller ones available from newclassD, those might fit with some cables and tweaking.


----------



## trazom

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I believe you misread ce que j'ai écrit


 

 I believe que oui.


----------



## vrln

Interesting links indeed. Hopefully my E1 will arrive soon. It is selling pretty well here considering it is a niche (on the Asus scale) product. The importer is running out of them in a week or so at this pace. Did some quick research on the USB chip and it seems it should run plug & play async USB under a current Linux kernel.
   
  Off topic: just finished my all-passively cooled Linux-box with no moving parts (SSD for the win). Using the Impactics case, running Ubuntu 12.04 beta. Will be interesting to do some A/B comparisons against my "legacy" Windows PC to see if there is a difference audio wise. At least I'll have a much lower absolute noise floor, heh heh...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Interesting links indeed. Hopefully my E1 will arrive soon. It is selling pretty well here considering it is a niche (on the Asus scale) product. The importer is running out of them in a week or so at this pace. Did some quick research on the USB chip and it seems it should run plug & play async USB under a current Linux kernel.
> 
> Off topic: just finished my all-passively cooled Linux-box with no moving parts (SSD for the win). Using the Impactics case, running Ubuntu 12.04 beta. Will be interesting to do some A/B comparisons against my "legacy" Windows PC to see if there is a difference audio wise. At least I'll have a much lower absolute noise floor, heh heh...


 

 The Cm 6631 is a cool little chip and is seen in a few different audio products right now.  IIRC, it is the first true high speed USB 2.0 that offers Async data transmission.  Would be cool to see some linux implementation.  I have a feeling this chip will be seen in many new USB products considering the feature set.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Here is a review I finished a little while ago.
  There is some opamp tests and other information for those interested, you can have a look here:-> Link


----------



## trazom

Nice review and lots of interesting information. Thank you Robscix.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





trazom said:


> Nice review and lots of interesting information. Thank you Robscix.


 

 Glad you found it interesting.
  Hopefully I cleared up some of the incorrect information out there.
  Such as the incorrect information that the E1 is using ALPS pots.
   
  Enjoy.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The Cm 6631 is a cool little chip and is seen in a few different audio products right now.  IIRC, it is the first true high speed USB 2.0 that offers Async data transmission.  Would be cool to see some linux implementation.  I have a feeling this chip will be seen in many new USB products considering the feature set.


 

 Linux has supported this chip (in full USB 2.0 async mode) since 2.6.35*. It was first used in the Schiit Bifrost I think. My guess is that this chip will become the next Tenor 7022, go mass market. The chip is so new it isn't even on the C-Media website yet. OSX also supports the chip without extra drivers, with some luck Windows 8 will too.
   
  *: http://www.mentby.com/Group/alsa-user/schiit-bifrost-usb-c-media-6631.html


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Linux has supported this chip (in full USB 2.0 async mode) since 2.6.35*. It was first used in the Schiit Bifrost I think. My guess is that this chip will become the next Tenor 7022, go mass market. The chip is so new it isn't even on the C-Media website yet. OSX also supports the chip without extra drivers, with some luck Windows 8 will too.
> 
> *: http://www.mentby.com/Group/alsa-user/schiit-bifrost-usb-c-media-6631.html


 

 Yes, it is used in the BiFrost and a few other products IIRC.  I think we will be seeing more products offering this chipset once it becomes more mainstream. 
   
  There is little readily available information or specifications surrounding the CM6631 mainly because it is still a very new chip. 
  I think we may see generic driver for it in upcoming OS's considering it is the first true high speed USB 2.0 chipset and we will be seeing more component that are using it for sure.  You said it is PnP compatible in Linux, are you considering writing your own Linux drivers?  I know some Linux guys write there own driver for audio components. If so, I might be able to help you with further information.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yes, it is used in the BiFrost and a few other products IIRC.  I think we will be seeing more products offering this chipset once it becomes more mainstream.
> 
> There is little readily available information or specifications surrounding the CM6631 mainly because it is still a very new chip.
> I think we may see generic driver for it in upcoming OS's considering it is the first true high speed USB 2.0 chipset and we will be seeing more component that are using it for sure.  You said it is PnP compatible in Linux, are you considering writing your own Linux drivers?  I know some Linux guys write there own driver for audio components. If so, I might be able to help you with further information.


 

 I'm nowhere near that good when it comes to coding - no need either since the drivers are already done and included in the stock ALSA that ships with the latest Linux kernel. It's just the older Linux distributions that won't work with this chip. Just meant that if you are running Linux there is no need to worry about any custom drivers since it works "out of the box", even better than in Windows actually. The Asus drivers package isn't even needed. That said, even if one is running Windows the drivers are probably made by C-Media for mass consumption (ie, not the niche stuff like on M2Tech products), just packaged by Asus with a nice GUI and so on. 
   
  Just read your review by the way, good work (Guru3d is one of my favorite sites too)! Any chance you could post more opamp swapping info here? This is the right place for it at least


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> I'm nowhere near that good when it comes to coding - no need either since the drivers are already done and included in the stock ALSA that ships with the latest Linux kernel. It's just the older Linux distributions that won't work with this chip. Just meant that if you are running Linux there is no need to worry about any custom drivers since it works "out of the box", even better than in Windows actually. The Asus drivers package isn't even needed. That said, even if one is running Windows the drivers are probably made by C-Media for mass consumption (ie, not the niche stuff like on M2Tech products), just packaged by Asus with a nice GUI and so on.
> 
> Just read your review by the way, good work (Guru3d is one of my favorite sites too)! Any chance you could post more opamp swapping info here? This is the right place for it at least


 
  Just figured I would ask as I have a few buddies that are into Linux and they are always writing custom drivers for this device or that device.
   
  On the side note, there are tons of people @G3D that are into opamp swapping for cards, DAC's.  A few threads in the audio forums..etc.
  I have been into audio electronics for quite awhile now, so that and the fact that people are always asking me about audio circuits and opamp swapping in forums, PM and emails, I have always included modifications and some general opamp swapping info in my reviews where appropriate.
   
  Glad you enjoyed the review.


----------



## furyagain

I am thinking of a secondary rig..
   
  My main rig is audio-gd 's
  Ref5 + ROC sa
   
  how the Essence compare to my main rig?
   
  Main headphones, HD-800/T1 ( also have HE-6, RS1i, but rarely use them)


----------



## ROBSCIX

You would have to find somebody with the E1 and do the comparison yourself.


----------



## furyagain

I wish,,,
   
  but i dont think anyone in Calgary  have it now,
  also none of the store that sell it in calgary or edmonton  has it in store,
  has to be special order( which means no return if i dont like it)
   
  mm
   i may go after the ibasso DX100 portable player instead,
   
   
  will see..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





furyagain said:


> I wish,,,
> 
> but i dont think anyone in Calgary  have it now,
> also none of the store that sell it in calgary or edmonton  has it in store,
> ...


 


   
  If you are interested, just wait until they become more mainstream and more people have had a chance to test them out.  I have been testing the E1 for quite awhile unit but I have not heard the other unit so I cannot give you a comparison.


----------



## clarknova

I've been seriously considering buying an STX for a while now but this external Xonar One looks to be quite excellent.
   
  I'll be purely using it for headphone usage and I don't really care if I have optical out or anything like that. Will the STX sound card produce the same kind of sound as the Xonar One does? Or is the Xonar one a serious upgrade from the ASUS ST or STX PCi Express card?
   
  Its very unlikely I'll changing out the op amp's or do any kind of modding I just want something that sounds great through my HD650's for my PC.


----------



## vrln

It should be a serious upgrade: dual mono, more powerful, no PC noise and so on. The early reviews seem to be in agreement that it´s a whole different league. That said, as soon as I get mine I can do a small A/B test (I have an STX too).


----------



## MdMa

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Here is a review I finished a little while ago.


 

 ROBSCIX, I just finished reading your review and would like to ask about this information:
   
   
  Quote: 





> [size=x-small][size=x-small]Although a stereo device the Essence 1 still produced excellent modeled surround sound via Dolby Headphone Mode 2[/size][/size]


 
   
  I currently have a Creative X-Fi, and I would imagine if I got rid of it and only used the Essence One, it would not be able to do any sort of headphone surround sound on it's own?


----------



## JavierS

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The Cm 6631 is a cool little chip and is seen in a few different audio products right now.  IIRC, it is the first true high speed USB 2.0 that offers Async data transmission.


 
   
  I believe XMOS and TE8802 (both true UAC2, driverless under Linux and Mac) were out way before.


----------



## Yobibyte

Got he ONE for my HD800, and the sound is phenomenal. The slightly bass heavy sound from the amp matches with the HD800 very well, as the 800s are a little shy the low frequencies in my opinion.
   
  Few complains I have about this unit:
  -Analogue volume knob suffers from channel imbalance. The headphone knob is particularly bad. Decreasing the volume will cause the left channel to be 1 "click" lower than the right channel. Turn the volume up 1 click fixes the imbalance. The center knob for the RCA outputs does not have the imbalance issue at all for my unit.
  -Turning on the "upsampling" causes a LOT of loss in quality. Most noticeable for the high frequencies.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





mdma said:


> ROBSCIX, I just finished reading your review and would like to ask about this information:
> 
> 
> 
> I currently have a Creative X-Fi, and I would imagine if I got rid of it and only used the Essence One, it would not be able to do any sort of headphone surround sound on it's own?


 
  No, if you use the Essence On, it is straight stereo sound, there is no surround modelling available.
  If you connected your X-FI to the Essence One through S/Pdif, then you could use the CMSS 3D or other effects if you want.
  Which is what I did during part of the testing, used a card for processing and the Essence One for output.


----------



## our martin

that's what put me off getting the essence one the fact that you can only listen to stereo sound not surround sound should have been a button that swiched from stereo to surround sound who have they aimed this at i guess not the gaming market?the asus thunder fx might make headphones 7.1 i know it's got a mic but not much info yet..the new phoebus will be the one to get dolby home theatre 4 with 24 bit sound very nice..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





our martin said:


> that's what put me off getting the essence one the fact that you can only listen to stereo sound not surround sound should have been a button that swiched from stereo to surround sound who have they aimed this at i guess not the gaming market?the asus thunder fx might make headphones 7.1 i know it's got a mic but not much info yet..the new phoebus will be the one to get dolby home theatre 4 with 24 bit sound very nice..


 
  This product is aimed at the music/audiophile type users, not gamers although you can use it for gaming. An external DAC is a stereo component, all of them are the same in that regard as they are meant for high quality music reproduction.
   
  If you want surround modelling for your headphones using the E1 there are ways you can do that.
  There are many people around here that use cards connected to DAC/amp for gaming on headphones.  This way you have all the gaming features from the card but higher quality sound from the DAC, headamp.


----------



## our martin

i am going to get myself an beyerdynamic headzone game it costs the same price as a pair of grado ps1000 headphones but you get what you pay for i thought about getting the asus essence one but it's just a dac headphone amp and i have already got a adl one of these what i am trying to say is that now asus are bringing stuff like the thunderfx out and the phoebus out because they never got it right in the first place! what i mean is that nowadays you can get some very good headsets and you could just listen to your music when you are gaming that's what i do! they have mist a trick not making the asus essence one surround aswell..that's how i see this anyway i will still be getting the phoebus though because they have hit the nail on the head with that one 24bit dolby home theatre version 4! i have got a pioneer susano av receiver and that has got a **** load of dacs in it and is 24 bit so there are not just stereo!


----------



## vrln

My E1 is ready to be picked up, will get it tomorrow. Just a heads up


----------



## our martin

vrln good luck with asus essence one i just wish they made it surround i like the way it looks aswell with the badge on top but the phoebus has sold it for me dolby home theatre 4 i can't wait for my new build but i will have to the ivy bridge and amd 7990 are not out yet i will be getting them on the day of release they say good things come to people who wait i want the battlefield to be out of this world running at 120fps on ultra with everything maxed out fingers crossed!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> My E1 is ready to be picked up, will get it tomorrow. Just a heads up


 


  Let us know what you think when you get a chance to have a listen.


----------



## Wage

I left him feedback, but I just wanted to thank Rob for featuring the Asus one on a more computer-oriented website, most of which do not feature proper audiophile articles or reviews. Even [H] only did a Beats review recently, and should've slammed them with a "WORST OF" award instead of just putting their dissatisfaction in the conclusion.

 Also, to Rob and anyone else reading:
   
*Would you recommend keeping a separate audiocard such as an Asus Essence ST to go along with the Essence ONE?* I was considering selling my Essence ST to fund better headphones and an Essence ONE, but I got it at such a great price ($120 with extra opamps, shipped) that I hate to sell it. I was also wanting to move to 7.1 physical surround someday, and I thought the extension card for the Essence ST would be an easy way of doing that (but I have no experience with surround so I don't know how good the extension card's quality would be).
   
  To be honest, I don't play most of the newer FPSers except TF2 -- they pale in comparison to a good GoldenEye or Perfect Dark session -- and since I've been gaming competitively without surround for the past 20 years I can rape pretty much anyone in terms of skill using a two-channel audio setup, a 60hz S-IPS monitor, non-mechanical keyboard, and a Logitech laser mouse. (I'd still be using a Sony fw900 if it weren't too heavy for the beautiful glass desk I got a year ago -_-)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wage said:


> I left him feedback, but I just wanted to thank Rob for featuring the Asus one on a more computer-oriented website, most of which do not feature proper audiophile articles or reviews. Even [H] only did a Beats review recently, and should've slammed them with a "WORST OF" award instead of just putting their dissatisfaction in the conclusion.
> 
> Also, to Rob and anyone else reading:
> 
> ...


 

 You're welcome, I have been trying to add more higher end gear reviews to our schedule.  You can always use a card to source the S/Pdif for the Essence One.  For example, if you connected the ST to the Essence, this would give DH,EQ...etc.  So you can have modeled surround sound if you used such a setup via' DH.


----------



## vrln

Here it is... Not many comments on sound yet as I don't have any decent headphones here, but I will be putting it in the speaker system soon as a test. Did some testing with my gaming headset and it's definately bass heavy and 3D. Burning it in now. Build quality is fantastic for the price, and the box is really heavy too. Larger than I expected as well.
   

   
*WARNING TO ALL BUYERS: DOUBLE CHECK THE VOLTAGE SWITCH!* Mine for example would have fried instantly as I'm in a 230VAC country and here you can see the position mine was set in out of the box. 
   

   
  Haven't managed to get it working in Windows yet, I get a heavily distorted sound. Something messed up with the drivers, will need to check again. But I don't use it in Windows anyway, and in Linux it's a different story:
   
   
  [37743.434455] usb 1-1.3: new high-speed USB device number 4 using ehci_hcd
  [37743.541418] input: ASUS ASUS Xonar Essence One as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1a.0/usb1/1-1/1-1.3/1-1.3:1.2/input/input13
  [37743.541566] generic-usb 0003:0B05:17A8.0005: input,hidraw2: USB HID v1.00 Device [ASUS ASUS Xonar Essence One] on usb-0000:00:1a.0-1.3/input2
  [37743.566918] usbcore: registered new interface driver snd-usb-audio
   
  In other words works without any drivers, perfectly plug & play under Ubuntu 12.04 beta. 
   
  PS: Having had the normal STX in my Windows system for a long time I can already say that the brightness and ear piercing harsh treble is gone entirely on the E1. Soundstage is wider too, even on poor headphones.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Install the ASIO drivers and set your players for the Essence One ASIO mode.


----------



## vrln

Thanks, will try. Haven't read the manual yet  The upsampling mode is pretty neat, makes everything sound a bit distant though. Going to leave the E1 on playing music through my gaming headset for the night, then tomorrow it's time to try it in my main speaker rig.


----------



## DMarasovic

I am new here. Thanks to all active members for sharing useful informations.
  Waiting for answer from local Asus representative if they could provide Essence One to me as official supply didn't start in my country.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





vrln said:


> it's definately bass heavy and 3D. [..]
> 
> Having had the normal STX in my Windows system for a long time I can already say that the brightness and ear piercing harsh treble is gone entirely on the E1. Soundstage is wider too, even on poor headphones.


 

  Yep, the ST cannot compete against the ONE IME...even w/ rocking opamps such as OPA827 and OPA602BP in the former...we're talking about a whole different ballpark here.
   
  And yes, the ONE sounds as 3D as it gets...a while ago, a friend of mine told me that in his opinion all those 3D/CMSS/DH DSP's available in internal soundcards drivers were essentially kludges to overcome for the poor quality of their output stage...I wholeheartedly agree. I'm an old school gamer but Q3 sounds truly eye popping on the ONE


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Thanks, will try. Haven't read the manual yet  The upsampling mode is pretty neat, makes everything sound a bit distant though. Going to leave the E1 on playing music through my gaming headset for the night, then tomorrow it's time to try it in my main speaker rig.


 

 No problem, I have been testing this unit for quite some time so if I can offer some help, please let me know and I will offer whatever help I can.
  I really enjoy the One on my 2.1 system testing rig.  If you want the bitperfect mode, ASIO over USB is the only way to get the indicator light to come on.  You may be sending a perfect stream, but unless you are using ASIO over USB,  you will just see whatever sampling rate is coming in.  Which is also cool when setting up your rig.


----------



## GChiu

Have you updated the firmware? Makes big difference.
  
  Quote: 





vrln said:


> Haven't managed to get it working in Windows yet, I get a heavily distorted sound. Something messed up with the drivers, will need to check again. But I don't use it in Windows anyway, and in Linux it's a different story:


----------



## AhhHoNG

Since ST/STX are using quality DAC, capacitors,swappable opamps. Is it right to say that the extra quality sound that comes out from the essence one are mostly because of the power supply, circuit board and dual mono dacs?


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





gchiu said:


> Have you updated the firmware? Makes big difference.


 

 Which one is the newest? The main version number as reported by the Asus drivers seems to indicate my E1 has the latest ones already. I'll post the version numbers when I boot to Windows later today.
   
  Also tried Foobar under ASIO, works perfectly. Still getting corrupted sound elsewhere in Windows though, so I can't watch Youtube or use it for gaming. Have tried various settings already, nothing seems to help. As a workaround I'm running optical right now, but it would be nice to use the high tech async receiver chip in Windows too. Zero problems under Linux.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Which one is the newest? The main version number as reported by the Asus drivers seems to indicate my E1 has the latest ones already. I'll post the version numbers when I boot to Windows later today.
> 
> Also tried Foobar under ASIO, works perfectly. Still getting corrupted sound elsewhere in Windows though, so I can't watch Youtube or use it for gaming. Have tried various settings already, nothing seems to help. As a workaround I'm running optical right now, but it would be nice to use the high tech async receiver chip in Windows too. Zero problems under Linux.


 
  The latest version IIRC is 1.08 revision.  The corruption is strange, check your settings in your windows audio control panel, what are they set to for bit depth and sampling frequency?


----------



## trazom

If you speak about the audio chip my version is 0109 .


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





trazom said:


> If you speak about the audio chip my version is 0109 .


 
  Maybe it is 1.09.  I was not 100% sure and not near the E1 to check.
  Now I want to check it!
   
  Edit,just checked,
  Driver Version: 6.0.8.2158
  F/W Version:  1.25
  Audio Chip F/W: 1.09
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## trazom

same with me.


----------



## vrln

Got it fixed. Isolated the problem to the Etron USB 3.0 USB host controller and/or its drivers. They are used in ASRock motherboards at least. The "legacy" USB 2.0 ports work fine. Just thought I´d post it here in case someone stumbles here someday via Google. Everything working perfectly now.
   
  Some more impressions with my Sennheiser 360 gaming headset: good PRAT. Been listening to a lot of upbeat rock, really nice stuff. Huge difference to the integrated "HD" soundcard, but then again I´ve never tried these headphones with anything else than it, STX and now E1. The first thing you notice is the much heavier and punchier bass, then the soundstage. The highs feel a bit rolled off, which I like a lot. I wonder how the E1 pairs with HD 650. It should be a real bass monster!
   
  Then the real test, speaker rig. Going against the Hegel HD 20. I use Amphion speakers that are notoriously neutral and sound horrible with most gear that have even the slightest tendency to sound harsh. The STX out of these speakers for example would be pure pain. The E1 does suprisingly well. It´s not as warm, and doesn´t have the microdetail the HD20 has, but it offers a really open, 3D sound with good bass drive. That said, the Hegel HD20 is more of a party animal and wins on the PRAT/bass drive too. The 3D factor is about the same. Hegel doesn´t force you to notice the stereo effects, it´s a lot more organic. But the same detail and separation is there too. These two are actually quite similar voicing wise, both go for an "upbeat" sound I think. As expected the E1 loses against the almost 4 times the price dedicated DAC, but not as hard as I thought it would. It´s good enough that I could use it in my main system too. Both have a really dark background. 
   
  Can´t wait to roll some opamps, very happy with this product. Good value for money.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Glad you got it figured out.  Seems an issue with the USB3 drivers working in 2.0 mode?
  Yeah, once you start with the opamps you can dial in the sound really good with that unit.


----------



## vrln

Exactly, something wrong with the USB 2 legacy mode. Doesn´t seem to be the only USB 3.0 chipset with the same problem, as ASUS even offers a fixed driver one one on the E1 downloads page. So it´s better to use it in a "real" USB 2.0 port.
   
  Time to start looking at Ebay/Digikey for some opamps. Would be nice to start with some stereo DIP8 ones, even though they aren´t perfect.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Exactly, something wrong with the USB 2 legacy mode. Doesn´t seem to be the only USB 3.0 chipset with the same problem, as ASUS even offers a fixed driver one one on the E1 downloads page. So it´s better to use it in a "real" USB 2.0 port.
> 
> Time to start looking at Ebay/Digikey for some opamps. Would be nice to start with some stereo DIP8 ones, even though they aren´t perfect.


 


  Yeah, I was going to mention that fix on their site for a certain USB 3.0 chipset.  I neverhad any USB issues during testing, I am using a USB 2.0 port and a USB isolator.
   
  No opamp is perfect for everybody or perfect for every circuit position.
  What opamps are you looking for?


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





vrln said:


> The first thing you notice is the much heavier and punchier bass, then the soundstage.


 

 One thing's for sure, I've plugged my good share of vintage orthos on the ONE...if you don't get serious deep bass, you can only blame your phone....this thing will get you all the bass your phone could possibly provide. LME49600 floods them w/ current as it would appear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote: 





vrln said:


> Would be nice to start with some stereo DIP8 ones, even though they aren´t perfect.


 
   
  Waste of time and money, really. AD797B or LME49990 = done. I hated the latter in one of my previous DAC's but opamps are highly design dependent..maybe they'll give the goods off the ONE, the whole internet cannot be wrong. Some ppl are selling presoldered modules on ebay for a good price too if you're not really DIY savvy


----------



## Phos

Performance-PCs (Mostly a PC modding retailer) is selling these for $209.99 for some reason.  I've dealt with them before.  
  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Yep, the ST cannot compete against the ONE IME...even w/ rocking opamps such as OPA827 and OPA602BP in the former...we're talking about a whole different ballpark here.
> 
> And yes, the ONE sounds as 3D as it gets...a while ago, a friend of mine told me that in his opinion all those 3D/CMSS/DH DSP's available in internal soundcards drivers were essentially kludges to overcome for the poor quality of their output stage...I wholeheartedly agree. I'm an old school gamer but Q3 sounds truly eye popping on the ONE


 

  
  Game audio to headphones usually just does what amounts to hard panning for headphone audio.  It doesn't contain any directional cues.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> One thing's for sure, I've plugged my good share of vintage orthos on the ONE...if you don't get serious deep bass, you can only blame your phone....this thing will get you all the bass your phone could possibly provide. LME49600 floods them w/ current as it would appear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed, this pumps all the bass the headphone used can manage. I wonder if anyone has tried this with the LCD-2 yet, heh... Did some more testing against the Hegel and while the bass on that somehow has more PRAT, it actually hits harder on the E1.
   
  Been trying to find presoldered modules of those on Ebay, no luck so far though. Single opamps are easy to find, and the dual-to-dip8 modules too though.


----------



## Seeing Red

I'm wondering how this compares to the Matrix Mini-i. I like my Matrix, but I would prefer not having to turn off my KRKs every time I want to use headphones.
   
  BTW, is the Newegg price of $600 the standard price? I'm seeing it for less than half that at another store.


----------



## vrln

Around 550-600 is the standard price. I doubt that 200 dollar price is real, my guess is that it's a mistake. If I lived in the States I'd email the company and ask if it's just a mistake or not. There's no way even the dealer buy-in price is that low as it's a high volume tech product, a product sector with notoriously low profit margins. ASUS does not play by the niche audiophile company rules, which is why the E1 and the ST/STX are such good value for money.


----------



## ROBSCIX

$550-600 is the standard price I have seen them for also.  That is from different locations also so it would seem that is the street price for this unit. 
   
  Even at $600 the E1 is a great deal considering the features and sound quality you get...IMO


----------



## vrln

Just a check if I got this right...
   
  If using the headphone output I need to switch the following opamps: 
   
  (1) I/V *5532* --> From what I´ve read opamps in the I/V phase don´t make much of a difference, so this one isn´t as critical as the others? My Google searches point out this chip is, as the Guru3d review pointed out, cheap and generic. 
   
  Then the signal goes to:
   
(2) *LME49720NA* --> Actually a pretty good opamp for the price, around 8 dollars or so? This is the same used in the Benchmark DAC--1 PRE I think.
This is to say this opamp is, considering the price of the unit, a very good one. (link: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49720.html#Overview)
   
  Then the signal finally goes to:
   
  (3) *LME 49600* --> This seems to be a brand new headphone amplifier buffer. The DIY forums seem to point out that it´s a very good one too. This one as it´s the buffer doesn´t need to be replaced at all, or? (link: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49600.html#Overview). Are there any other commercial products that use this chip yet? Looks like ASUS went for really bleeding edge IC components in the E1, this and the USB receiver for example. Very nice stuff.
   
  So if one is only using the headphone section, the stuff that needs to be replaced are the 5532´s and potentially the LME 49720NA´s?
   
  EDIT:
   
  Update on my little opamp research, just posting this here as I guess a lot of people read this thread through Google and wonder about the same things:
   
  In general all the really good opamps are single channel. The market for dual channel opamps is a lot smaller. As the E1 opamps are on DIP-8 sockets, I need to buy compatible stuff. Digikey for example often sells surface mount opamps too, and those won´t fit! You need through hole ones.
   
  Dual channel opamps that would fit straight into the E1: 
   
  (1) *OPA2107*. A dual channel budget version of the legendary (and 30 dollars per unit!) OPA 627? Available on Digikey for around 11 euros per piece, link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA2107AP/296-19953-5-ND/251135. Does "AP" mean a higher quality version? See: http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/451762-ic-opamp-gp-4-5mhz-dual-8dip-opa2107ap.html --> seems to cost more!
   
  (2) *LT1364*. Another ok contender, pretty cheap too at around 6 euros per piece. Link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/LT1364CN8%23PBF/LT1364CN8%23PBF-ND/891887
   
  (3) *AD827*. Not as good as the single channel AD flagships, but this one is a dual channel one. Price around 10 euros per piece, link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/AD827JNZ/AD827JNZ-ND/819983
   
  But the "real league" are the single channel ones (according to various audio forums at least):
   
  (1) *OPA627* --> Expensive and hard to find. Apparently the king especially if you use bright headphones. Price a neat 30 euros per piece: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA627BP/OPA627BP-ND/251166 --> It would be expensive to fill the E1 with these!
   
  (2) *AD797* --> Legendary stuff, used in many high end DAC´s like the Invicta. Costs around 8 euros per piece. Link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/AD797ANZ/AD797ANZ-ND/751113
   
  Downside? You need an adapter to use these: dual single channel to single DIP-8.
   
  Let me know if I got anything wrong! Disclaimer: I do NOT have these opamps (yet).


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Here is a review I finished a little while ago.
> There is some opamp tests and other information for those interested, you can have a look here:-> Link


 


  Mr. Robscix I am trying to find your measurements in your review but it seems that there aren't any...
   
  Is there any reason for this? 
   
  Because in your perfect review for ST, (which it seems to be  a much better dac than ONE), you gave alot:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/11


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





hellenic vanagon said:


> Mr. Robsix I am trying to find your measurements in your review but it seems that there aren't any...
> 
> Is there any reason for this?
> 
> ...


 


 I just didn't bother with RMAA measurements for this review.  The ST(X) series does have a higher measured DAC but sound quality is a bit more then just straight measurements.  The E1 does have Audio Precisions measurements included in the bundle.  You should be able to download them somewhere maybe.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> In general all the really good opamps are single channel. The market for dual channel opamps is a lot smaller. As the E1 opamps are on DIP-8 sockets, I need to buy compatible stuff. Digikey for example often sells surface mount opamps too, and those won´t fit! You need through hole ones.
> 
> Dual channel opamps that would fit straight into the E1:
> 
> ...


 
  You got a few things wrong 
  First, out of your list above, the AD797, OPA827 and OPA627 are single channel chips.  You would require atleast two of each and adapters also.
  In my experience, which is quite extensive with opamps,is that the I/V actually forms a great deal of your overall signature and the buffer can be used to help enhance or hinder certain aspects.  Or can be used as a straight neutral buffer.
   
  For instance, say you had some I/V that you like the signature expect for the high end, a bit to edgy.  You could add a buffer opamp that has a bit of a roll-off in the high end so the two type of chips would balance out.
  You are right in that most audio opamps are SOIC8 (surface mount 8 pin) and single channel. 
  Hope this helps.


----------



## Phos

Yeah, RMAA results aren't really useful when you have audio precision measurements.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





robscix said:


> You got a few things wrong
> First, out of your list above, the AD797, OPA827 and OPA627 are single channel chips.  You would require atleast two of each and adapters also.
> In my experience, which is quite extensive with opamps,is that the I/V actually forms a great deal of your overall signature and the buffer can be used to help enhance or hinder certain aspects.  Or can be used as a straight neutral buffer.
> 
> ...


 

 I guess you read my post a bit too quickly. I didn´t actually say the AD797 and OPA627 are dual channel ones. I just compared the dual channel opamps (2107 and 827) to those legendary single channel ones, ie, that they are more or less budget dual channel versions of those in a way. I think your wrong about the AD827 though, it´s confirmed as a dual opamp on the Analog Devices website.
   
  My guess is that a good place to start would be to replace the I/V opamps (5532) with some LME49720NA´s. I think I´ll first order some stereo opamps as they are easy to swap. Then a high end AD797 kit or something similar.
   
  Some random stuff:
   
  (1) There seem to be many DIP-8 formats, which ones is the right one on the E1?
  (2) Are all the 11 opamps in the E1 dual channel ones?
  (3) Looking at the ASUS opamp swap guide, the headphone signal path consists of: two I/V 5532´s, four LME49720NA´s and finally the two LME49600? I´ll open the E1 tomorrow and check. If I am though, doesn´t that mean that basically what needs to be swapped are the two 5532´s and four LME49720NA´s
(4) Are the LME49600´s socketed too and might it be worth swapping as well?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> I guess you read my post a bit too quickly. I didn´t actually say the AD797 and OPA627 are dual channel ones. I just compared the dual channel opamps (2107 and 827) to those legendary single channel ones, ie, that they are more or less budget dual channel versions of those in a way. I think your wrong about the AD827 though, it´s confirmed as a dual opamp on the Analog Devices website.
> 
> My guess is that a good place to start would be to replace the I/V opamps (5532) with some LME49720NA´s. I think I´ll first order some stereo opamps as they are easy to swap. Then a high end AD797 kit or something similar.
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, must have been a mis-communication.  I thought you wrote *OPA*827...which is a newer single channel audio opamp that many seem to like.
  I just look at the coding...my mistake 
  1) Really hard to say, different opamps are good for different tasks.
  2) Yes, all the opamps in the E1 are dual channel.
  3) the main headphone section is just two opamps the LME49720's but there are opamps off the main DAC's also that you might want to change.
  4) No.


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I just didn't bother with RMAA measurements for this review.  The ST(X) series does have a higher measured DAC but sound quality is a bit more then just straight measurements.  The E1 does have Audio Precisions measurements included in the bundle.  You should be able to download them somewhere maybe.


 


  Please let me to insist a little bit.
   
  1)Firstly the RMAA measurements:
   
*Frequency response:*
   
*ST:*
   

   
   
*ONE: *(24/96)
   

   
   
   
*Noise level:*
   
*ST: *
   

   
   
   
*ONE: (24 96)*
   

   
   
   
   
*Dynamic Range:*
   
*ST: *
   

   
   
*ONE: (24 96)*
   

   
   
   
*THD + NOISE:*
   
*ST:*
   

   
   
*ONE**: (24 96)*
   

   
   
   
*Intermodulation distortion:*
   
   
*ST:*
   

   
   
   
*ONE: (24 96)*
   

   
   
   
   
*Crosstalk:*
   
*ST:*

   
   
*ONE: (24 96)*
   

   
   
  We can see in the above measurements, that ST is far superior than ONE.
   
   
  For ST:http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/11
   
  For ONE:http://www.hdfever.fr/2011/10/10/comparatif-de-circuits-analogiques-asus-xonar-hdav-vs-dac-asus-essence-one-vs-oppo-bdp-93eu-signature-nuforce/#postTabs_ul_24252
   
   
  2)Secondly, the reviewer in the French magazine, says that XONAR HDAV, sounds better than ONE, (having better measurements, also)!
   
  But sir, it is well known that ST sounds much better than HDAV!
   
  It is well known again, that such big differences in measurements, affect the sound quality, for sure.
   
   
  3)Lastly, it seems a little difficult for the ONE to achieve such a perfect low level of jitter: (10-20 ps)
   
   
*ST JITTER 24 192:*
   

http://www.soundtrackforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=325


----------



## germanium

It is true that measurements don't tell the whole story. I have a modded SACD player that once modded sounded almost identical to the Essense STX with my initial mods that I made early on & was satisfied with for more than a year. I have since made more mods on it & it sounds even better but what I'm saying is the SACD player has much lower performing DAC's than the STX & once modified it came very close in sound. Only real consistant problem with the SACD player was noise which was much higher it seems than it's specs suggested. Of coarse when music was playing the noise wasn't an issue. Sound was very very good but not excellent but then again niether was the STX until my current mods but was definately satisfactory up until my current mods. Current mods moves it up to excellent.


----------



## Wage

Quote: 





hellenic vanagon said:


> Please let me to insist a little bit...
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> ...


 


  Can someone translate this into English for those of us still learning how to read graphs? Or link me to a Reading Sound Graphs for Dumbies? This could be good news for me, since I already have an Essence ST, but I'm a bit skeptical since I've read before that graphs can't show everything when it comes to sound quality (unlike video quality)...


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





wage said:


> Can someone translate this into English for those of us still learning how to read graphs? Or link me to a Reading Sound Graphs for Dumbies? This could be good news for me, since I already have an Essence ST, but I'm a bit skeptical since I've read before that graphs can't show everything when it comes to sound quality (unlike video quality)...


 


  Talking strictly about the sound quality, ST vs ONE:mr. Robscix says:
   
*ST:*
   
"The verdict is easy on this one based on some very extensive testing this card sounds excellent and provide sound quality well beyond its price point.  *This card produces sound quality on par with sources many times the listed price.*  The DAC's, filters, power section and circuit designs are all intended to produce the best sound for this price point.  *The card produces a warm "tubey" type of sound with balanced bass, smooth midrange and highs.  The detail and clarity on this card is very pronounced, the card hides nothing allowing you to hear exactly what you have in your music.**"*
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/15
   
*ONE:*
   
"We found the Essence One to have excellent overall sound quality.  The unit has a more laid back, mature type of sound quality usually presented from more well established DAC builders and missed by those new to this area.  In comparison a source such as the STX is more upfront and in your face whereas the E1 is a bit mellower and laidback.*"*
*http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-essence-one-review/9*
   
*Can you feel it?*
   
   
  About jitter.
   
  The posted graph is a measurement according to this method, used by "STEREOPHILE":
   

   

   
   
  Of course, using ADC and DAC, there may be a "masking" phenomenon, and we are right to expect a, (slightly), even better mesurement for the dac alone:
   

   
  And such jitter performance, (10-20 ps), for ST, is an absolute top, since many expensive dacs cannot grade better.


----------



## Wage

Thank you very much, hellenic.
   
  While I admit I'm much more well versed in video than audio at this point, I will continue to research this until I understand the graphs fully. If what I'm reading is true, though, I suppose all I need for my upcoming Denon AH-D7000s is the ST I already have. I'd love to get the ONE if not only because it is external to the machine (and thus much more convenient for using on multiple computers); however, I also don't want to fall into the crowd who takes psychological gains as being more important than factual ones.
   
  Hopefully ROB or someone else who actually understands all this can chime in, because I'd still love to have a reason to sell my ST and get a ONE (as that was my original intention)...


----------



## vrln

Measurements have little in common with how subjectively good something sounds, almost none. Is the ST more accurate? You can build an almost perfectly measuring CMOY with a few cheap opamps. Sure the ST is more accurate, but the thing is this hobby isn't about accuracy at all if you ask me. It's about making sound enjoyable to listen to. In a blind test I would never choose the STX over the E1, the E1 simply sounds so much better to me. It still measures quite well too.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Hellenic,  Man, wouldn't it be great if measurements actually did relate directly to sound quality?
  It would make my job so much easier as I wouldn't have to listen!  I could just compare some graphs and be done with it.  I have tested every single product you have mentioned and a few notes, I doubt you would hear any difference between an HDAV 1.3 and a STX/ST.
   
  The trouble is, you cannot look at a graph and see sound quality.  You can see signal quality and the two are NOT the same thing.  You can have a device that measures great but just doesn't sound that good and devices that measure not so great but just have that magic that people love to hear.  Think of an expensive tube amp, the measurements might not be that good in comparison to other types of amps but most would enjoy their presentation.
  A digital amp in comparison may produce higher measurments but sound cold, sterile and lifeless to the same people.  Don;t get me wrong, I am not saying the ST(X) cards sound bad, they do not.  What I am saying is don't assume the One sounds worse because it does not produce the same measurements.
   
  Nobody was suggesting the One measured better then the STX/ST, you don't need to measure it to know that, all you have to do is read the specification!
  Audio is subjective and people like or don't like what they hear, measurements have little to do with it in the end.
   
  I am glad a person mentioned the Cmoy, that is a true point.  Some devices measure great but don't sound that good or some devices might measure not to good in comparison but just sound better to the ears.  That is the way of audio, it is all subjective.  If you like your ST, great enjoy it, that is what it is all about.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wage said:


> Thank you very much, hellenic.
> 
> While I admit I'm much more well versed in video than audio at this point, I will continue to research this until I understand the graphs fully. If what I'm reading is true, though, I suppose all I need for my upcoming Denon AH-D7000s is the ST I already have. I'd love to get the ONE if not only because it is external to the machine (and thus much more convenient for using on multiple computers); however, I also don't want to fall into the crowd who takes psychological gains as being more important than factual ones.
> 
> Hopefully ROB or someone else who actually understands all this can chime in, because I'd still love to have a reason to sell my ST and get a ONE (as that was my original intention)...


 

 I would say have a listen and decide for yourself.  Graphs are good for certain things and other aspects cannot be shown on a graph.  I have tested and own basically every component being talked about and right now, I am enjoying the one greatly.  You have heard impressions from many people that have actually heard both products but they are mainly opinions.
  You may like the signature of the STX/ST better but you will never now until you hear the One also.


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





robscix said:


> @Hellenic,  Man, wouldn't it be great if measurements actually did relate directly to sound quality?
> It would make my job so much easier as I wouldn't have to listen!  I could just compare some graphs and be done with it.  I have tested every single product you have mentioned and a few notes, I doubt you would hear any difference between an HDAV 1.3 and a STX/ST.
> 
> The trouble is, you cannot look at a graph and see sound quality.  You can see signal quality and the two are NOT the same thing.  You can have a device that measures great but just doesn't sound that good and devices that measure not so great but just have that magic that people love to hear.  Think of an expensive tube amp, the measurements might not be that good in comparison to other types of amps but most would enjoy their presentation.
> ...


 


  Ο.k. mr. Robscix, let's forget evrything about measurements!
  (You see, when they are good, evrybody advertises them as something very important, directly connected to sound quality.When they aren't, the second theory of no connection is used.)
   
  Now we are talking about  sound quality without measurements!
   
  We are having two dacs.
   
*The sound quality of the first is described like this:*
   
   
  
 "The verdict is easy on this one based on some very extensive testing this card sounds excellent and provide sound quality well beyond its price point.  *This card produces sound quality on par with sources many times the listed price**.*  The DAC's, filters, power section and circuit designs are all intended to produce the best sound for this price point.  *The card produces a warm "tubey" type of sound with balanced bass, smooth midrange and highs.  The detail and clarity on this card is very pronounced, the card hides nothing allowing you to hear exactly what you have in your music.**"*
  
  
  
 *The sound quality of the second is described in these words:*
  
 "We found the Essence One to have excellent overall sound quality.  The unit has a more laid back, mature type of sound quality usually presented from more well established DAC builders and missed by those new to this area.  In comparison a source such as the STX is more upfront and in your face whereas the E1 is a bit mellower and laidback.*"*
  
  
   
  It is obvious that the reviewer, _who is you in both cases_, grades much more higher the first, in terms of sound quality, _which is ST!_


----------



## ROBSCIX

Don't get me wrong measurements can be very important for certain things but you need to understand what they show and do not show.
  Let me offer a few examples, earlier you said the ST is much better then the HDAV, when in fact they both measure very close. So close that most would say you wouldn't be able to tell them apart with your ears. 
  Another point, many people also say the ST sounds better then the STX, but IIRC, the ST actually measures slightly worse then the STX so why does it sound so much better to those that have tried both, do you see the point?
   
  They both are excellent audio sources but for me, where I am right now, I like the sound quality of the Essence One over the ST(X) but they have very different signatures.
  I like both products, why does liking one mean I can't like the other? You never know I may change to something else tomorrow. and start using that.
   
  I am not sure what your point is here or what you are trying to prove?
  If you want to discuss subjective opinions further, please feel free to PM me also.
   
  I would suggest, that you go and listen to the Essence One and decide for yourself it is a good source or not.
  Use whatever sounds the best to you, that is what most of us here do!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Another point, many people also say the ST sounds better then the STX, but IIRC, the ST actually measures slightly worse then the STX so why does it sound so much better to those that have tried both, do you see the point?


 
   
  Did at least one of those many people actually perform a serious, level matched double-blind test ? Regarding the ST measuring worse, is that statistically verified, or based only on the Stereophile review ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Did at least one of those many people actually perform a serious, level matched double-blind test ? Regarding the ST measuring worse, is that statistically verified, or based only on the Stereophile review ?


 

 IIRC, it was based on a few different tests done by different people here and in other forums. 
  Understand though, the differences were ever so slight but it came as a surprise to many that have heard both and prefer the ST over the STX.  You would think that the ST would show large differences but it doesn't.  It was just an example, don't take is as me suggesting the ST is inferior to the STX as they are both excellent sources.


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Another point, many people also say the ST sounds better then the STX, but IIRC, the ST actually measures slightly worse then the STX so why does it sound so much better to those that have tried both, do you see the point?


 

 But sir where did you find that ST measures worse than STX?
   
  If you mean "STEREOPHILE", they have done two basic mistakes:
   
  1)measured ST in an old PC, so there where'nt equal parameters for the two cards.
   
  2)mr. Atkinson absolutely ignored the -31% for jitter which is given by ASUS!  He didn't say even a word about this so important characteristic!
   
   
  Now here are your measurements about the two cards:
   
*Frequency Response*
   
*STX:*
   

   
   
*ST:*
   

   
   
*Dynamic Range*
   
*STX:*
   

   
*ST:*
   

   
   
   
*THD+N:*
   
*STX:*
   

   
   
*ST:*
   
   

   
   
   
*Stereo Crosstalk*
   
*STX:*
   

   
   
*ST:*
   

   
   
   
*Intermodulation Distortion*
   
*STX:*
   

   
   
   
*ST:*
   

   
   
   
*Noise Level*
   
*STX:*
   

   
   
*ST:*
   

   
   
*STX:*
*http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-stx-review/15*
   
*ST:*
*http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/11*
   
   
  As it is expected, the measurements are according the manufacturer, which means _equal._
   
   
  The only difference is here:
   
   
*JITTER : (Fom the "STEREOPHILE's" well known review).*
   
*STX: (170-180 ps, 16 bit)*
   

   
   
   
*ST: (10-20 ps, 24 bit)*
   

http://www.soundtrackforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1547
   
   
  The ST sounds better than STX, having much lower jitter.
   
  Of course this can be expressed by the above measurements! 
   
  And to be honest, never in my life, (53 years old, having the hobby from my 10), saw a sound device, with medium specifications, sounding perfectly. There were always a lot of salesmen trying to convice me about this, though.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





hellenic vanagon said:


> But sir where did you find that ST measures worse than STX?
> 
> As it is expected, the measurements are according the manufacturer, which means _equal._
> 
> ...


 
  The info is around, if you want to look, slightly worse or equal, still shows my point.
  Now, that is as far as I feel like going on this subject because in all honesty, I really have no idea what your point is.
  In this thread you are trying to say how good the ST is and in the ST thread you are suggesting how bad it is, so I am getting the impression that you just want to argue that may or may not be the case.
   
  I am not trying to convince anybody of anything, I can only offer my personal opinion based on my testing.
   
  So, use whatever you want based on whatever information you want and enjoy.


----------



## ROBSCIX

On topic,  I built some new opamp modules this morning for use in my sources.  The LME49990 modules for the head amp outputs.  I built a specialized high grade module for the final buffer section of the line output, don't want to say what it is as of yet, until I get the result of my testing.
  Looking forward to doing some testing here when I get some time.  I am still a fan of the LME49720HA to replace the chip versions.  Just pushes the stock circuit a bit further.


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The info is around, if you want to look, slightly worse or equal, still shows my point.
> Now, that is as far as I feel like going on this subject because in all honesty, I really have no idea what your point is.
> In this thread you are trying to say how good the ST is and in the ST thread you are suggesting how bad it is, so I am getting the impression that you just want to argue that may or may not be the case.
> 
> ...


 

 Just one more sentence: never said that ST is not good, since I declare proud owner for two years now!
   
  Thank you for your time!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





hellenic vanagon said:


> Just one more sentence: never said that ST is not good, since I declare proud owner for two years now!
> 
> Thank you for your time!


 
  Great, enjoy.


----------



## vrln

Some more questions for you opamp rollers out there... I´m going to start with dual channel opamps just to be safe, then move on to soldering single channel ones with the adapters.
   
  (1) Why does E1 use dual channel opamps if it´s a full mono design? For example the headphone output runs on two LME49720NA opamps: does this mean each opamp runs both channels on a single left/right signal, or does each left/run signal just run through two separate opamps?
   
  (2) As I´m looking to get the following dual channel opamps: AD827, LME49720, LME49860, OPA2107, OPA2111. I´ve browsed Digikey and I think I´ve found the ones suitable (right package etc) for the E1. These are:
   
  AD827: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/AD827JNZ/AD827JNZ-ND/819983
  LME49720: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/LME49720NA%2FNOPB/LME49720NA-ND/1647708
  LME49860: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/LME49860NA%2FNOPB/LME49860NA-ND/1647710
  OPA2107: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA2107AP/296-19953-5-ND/251135
  OPA2111: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA2111KP/296-12983-5-ND/251137
   
  Does everything look ok?
   
  (3) Is the correct DIP8 one this: [size=small]8-DIP (0.300", 7.62mm)? I´m asking because it seems there are a few competiting 8-DIP standards.[/size]


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Some more questions for you opamp rollers out there... I´m going to start with dual channel opamps just to be safe, then move on to soldering single channel ones with the adapters.
> 
> (1) Why does E1 use dual channel opamps if it´s a full mono design? For example the headphone output runs on two LME49720NA opamps: does this mean each opamp runs both channels on a single left/right signal, or does each left/run signal just run through two separate opamps?
> 
> ...


 
  1.  Without a big explaination, the system just uses dual channel opamps.   One LME49720 has left signal for headphones and the other has right.
  2. Those should all work fine although, I have not personally tested the AD827 and LME49860 although, I did like the OPA2107, 2111's and LME49720 but my 2111's and 49720 are custom made TO-99 metal can opamps so they are a bit higher grade then the chip version.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





robscix said:


> 1.  Without a big explaination, the system just uses dual channel opamps.   One LME49720 has left signal for headphones and the other has right.
> 2. Those should all work fine although, I have not personally tested the AD827 and LME49860 although, I did like the OPA2107, 2111's and LME49720 but my 2111's and 49720 are custom made TO-99 metal can opamps so they are a bit higher grade then the chip version.


 

 Ok, to me it seems the dual channel opamps aren't really used for left/right, they are just used to cram in more opamps in the box. In other words I think it runs dual mono with each channel in the headphone section passing through one opamp (which means two actually, since dual channel opamps are just two opamps in one IC). Doesn't really matter though. Thanks, looks like I'll be able to try some opamps soon!
   
  By the way, I did some more research with the help of the ASUS official opamp swap guide (on the E1 website downloads section). If we are not using the RCA and XLR outputs, the opamps that we can swap in the E1 in stock configuration are:
   
  (1) I/V section, in other words current to voltage conversion. This section by default runs on *4 pieces of NE5532P*
  (2) Low pass filter, in other words  background noise filtering. This section by default runs on *2 pieces of NE5532P*
  (3) Headphone amp section. This section by default runs on *2 pieces of LME49720NA*
   
  The XLR and RCA outputs have their own opamps, but changing those does not affect the headphone output. The interesting thing is that those opamps are: *3 pieces of LM4562NA*
   
  Now my instant realization when I noticed this was: if just using the headphone output, wouldn't it be a good idea to replace the low pass filter section opamps (2) with two of the LM4562NA from the XLR output (RCA just uses one)? The NE5532P's from the low pass filter section could then be moved to the XLR output one.


----------



## Riker

Hey Guys,
   
  For what its worth.. I picked up an Essence One yesterday, put it throught it's paces and here is my "review" .. more like just my own observations in my system .
   
  So, I just thought I would share with you my experience with the E1.
   
   
  I only had a general sense of what this unit could do because of the somewhat limited reviews available on the net, but I knew that it was likely very good, especially for its price point, it would offer great value.
  The main theme from the available reviews seam to indicate that the over all sound was smooth and bass heavy, with highs that were good but slightly recessed in details. My personal observations were quite contrary to all that I had read and I will expand it this.
  The Xonar Essence One was used as a DAC for a Sonos Zone Player 80 connected to an Anthem AVM-20 Pre-processor and powered by an Anthem MC-20 stereo amplifier. The speakers were the wonderful Acoustic Zen Addagios towers.
  The music was stored on a Seagate Black Armor NAS 440 connected to a router which the Sonos is also connected to the same router via RJ-45 Ethernet. All music was lossless, either Flac or WAV format.
  As a comparison, a Pioneer BD player was used to play redbook CD version of the same songs being audition. The 4 DACs in the audition were the Sonos DACs, the Anthem AVM-20 AKM DACs, the internal Pioneer BD player DACs and the Asus Xonar Essence One DAC.
  By far the inferior sound came from the Sonos Zone Player 80 built-in DACs, the Sonos is a great wireless multi room system, but the internal DACs are less than stellar. The next best was the Anthem AVM-20 AKM DACs. The AVM-20 is a really good pre-processor of high quality, but it is also almost 10 years old and showing it’s age in the digital processing area. In fact, the Pioneer BD player which costs $300 versus the $5000 of the Anthem, but that is only 2 years old, has better DACs or, I should say, sounds better to my ears than that Anthem.
  So the main comparison was between the Pioneer BD player and the Essence One.
  The redbook CDs played on the BD player sounded good with low end extension, or was it inflated bass ? , good mids and high but nothing spectacular, just overall a good sound.
  The Essence One really brought it to another level, especially with mids and highs. I could clearly distinguish every instruments place in a 3d soundstage, yet none were stepping on others toes. It was like the music could breath vs the BD player which by comparison sounded congested and muddy. The E1 really injected some fresh air into the mix, creating a wide stereo image and allowing each instrument to shine on it’s own but remaining a cohesive ensemble of music that did not sound detached in any way. The E1 is very linear in that nothing is over emphasized or diminished to a point that is noticeable. Engaging the Upsampling on the E1 brought even more details. Piano notes had longer sustain and decay before fading, cymbals were so clear I could hear the drum stick hitting the metal cymbals !
  The one area which surprised me was the Bass. All the reviews that I had read praised the bass flavor of the E1, stating that "Bass Heads" were going to be very happy with this unit. Well, I certainly qualify as a Bass Head and I’ve been playing Bass Guitar for close to 30 years, so I really know my Bass. Yes, I love bass, but not at the detriment of the overall sound, it has to be balanced and I do not like overemphasized, loose or boomy bass at all. I do like to feel the visceral punch to the gut of Bass when appropriate material is played, such as DeadMau5 and other techno / trance music.
  Unfortunately, in my system, the Bass fell short of expectations. The difference between the Anthem and Pioneer DACs vs the E1 on bass was significantly noticeable. They both had considerably more bass, especially in terms of volume. The E1 had tighter bass, but it sounded very thin in comparison, which again really surprised me since other reviews said that bass was it’s strength. In my system, that was simply not the case. The bass left me wanting for more, more impact, more volume, more slam as it where and took away from the otherwise excellent sound that the E1 delivers.
  It’s to bad because everything else was stellar, the stereo image, the amazing details and accuracy in the mid and high frequencies, the placement of each instrument all contributed to a very enjoyable listening experience. It is very strange indeed, as others said that the bass was the best part of this DAC and that the high end was lacking, but could be improved by swapping out the OP-AMPS to get better high end. In my opinion, the high end is just great, it is the Bass that is lacking and needs to be improved, again this is my specific system, which is pretty good, but by no means as high end as others.
  As I am a bonafide Bass Head, with my gear, the E1 falls a bit short of my expectations in that regards, however it is definitively worth auditioning in your own system and you be the judge. I have not tried the USB or the Headphone amp section as this is not a requirement for me. I have professional studio recording equipment connected to my computer and have no need for a USB DAC.
  Sound perception is extremely subjective and my impressions are just that, mine, your might be very different. Definitely give it a try and see for yourself as this unit is worth a shot. Having auditioned the Sim Audio MOON D100, the Musical Fidelity M1DAC and the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic I would say that the Asus E1 is definitively in the same league and in some respects, better than the aforementioned DACs.


----------



## Wage

Thank you so much for your review, Riker!

 As I explained in my personal response to your post, I feel the same when it comes to needing bass but not at the cost of anything else in a song. The term "bass head" to me usually puts a picture in my head of someone who cares about bass before everything else. I value accurate and impactful bass, but at the same time I absolutely HATE sitting in the car of buddies who spent ****loads of money on sound systems only to pump the bass up 100% and leave it at that.
   
*Bass quantity ≯ bass quality*
   
  That having been said, after reading your review -- and after having already read ROB's fantastic review and many others here -- I have a feeling this will be the perfect fit for me, and I'm now sold on purchasing the Essence One. However, at the same time I will probably keep my Essence ST; I planned on keeping only one of the two, but after the recent discussion about how different (but great) they both are, I'd be a fool to get rid of it after getting such a killer deal on mine.
   
  I was at first worried that the Essence One would produce *too much* bass, which would be a bit too much for the Denon AH-D7000s that I plan to get soon (which are famous for their high quality bass when compared to other high-end closed cans). Furthermore, when I do move on to a proper active monitor + active sub 2.1 setup (and from there, a proper 7.1 setup), I want bass impact but not at the expense of everything else. I use speakers for movies but not for music too much, and in movies too much bass or lack thereof can easily ruin a film that has less-than-stellar sound editing. Normalization = a no go for proper film watching, at least to this film buff.
   
  Moreover, I do not seek out a completely balanced sound signature present in most high-end open cans, and so I am more than happy to hear that the Essence One provides a lot of bass... just less than what your previous setup already gave you. In my opinion, sacrificing bass quantity for increased quality everywhere else is worth it, but again, that's just me and I'm by no means an audio professional.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Both sources are very good but very different in analog signature.  You can always use S/Pdif from the ST to Essence One and this would give you all the features of the ST such as EQ, Dolby Headphones..etc.  I think you will be happy with the sound of the E1, if you are worried make sure you buy it from a place that has a return policy. If it does not offer you enjoyable sound quality, you can return it. 
   
  I agree with you about the bass, I hate bloated, washed out bass.  I want to hear good bass that is at the proper level for the song.  Even if you are a bass head that doesn't mean you have to wash out the entire song so all you hear is bass.  That is a big waste of a song IMO...I hate those kids cars, that always seem to be playing the same song...Boom...buzz..mumble...mumble...boom...buzzz.  Just sounds awful and they think they have great sound systems!
   
  To note, what other people hear from the Essence One is also based on other gear they use, such as amps, speakers, headphones..etc.  IMO, a balanced signature is a good thing from a source. If you have any questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to offer whatever information I have.


----------



## Phos

It seems the price on Performance-PCs was a mistake, it's now at around $550.


----------



## ROBSCIX

That sounds about right, $550 to $600.


----------



## dzonylan

Hi all,
   
  I have just recently bought the Xonar E1, to pair with my Denon Ah-D 2000 cans (linked with my pc through audioquest carbon usb cable).
  The audio quality I usually very good, but when it comes for high tones, I get "cracks" in sound, and I don't know how to get rid of them (I listen to CD's and FLAC files). 
  I updated the E1 firmware, as it was advised, and it upgraded the audio quality, but the "cracks" are still there, when it comes to high tones.
  I have the latest drivers, I tried to reinstall them as well, and nothing.
  Any ideas, what to do?
  Please help, as I'm considering to give back the E1


----------



## ROBSCIX

Strange, what is your setup?
  What connection type, player software, output plugin?


----------



## Wage

Uh What @ that extremely expensive audioquest carbon USB cable. You're one of those people who buy $70+ Monster brand HDMI cables too, aren't you? For that money, you could've upgraded your headphones to the AH-D5000s and not been reemed up the financial ass...
   
  I'm an IT, not an audio professional, but even I know that sending digital DATA over a cord does not improve when you shield it with marketing and another $100.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wage said:


> Uh What @ that extremely expensive audioquest carbon USB cable. You're one of those people who buy $70+ Monster brand HDMI cables too, aren't you? For that money, you could've upgraded your headphones to the AH-D5000s and not been reemed up the financial ass...
> 
> I'm an IT, not an audio professional, but even I know that sending digital DATA over a cord does not improve when you shield it with marketing and another $100.


 
  Those are actually great quality cables.  There are much higher priced cables out there then those products.
  I don't think there is anything wrong with paying for quality.
  So, does that mean you are using a $1 USB cable that came with a printer for your E1


----------



## Wage

I'm not disputing whether they're great quality cables, but whether or not they actually improve the quality of the data sent through them. This is not analog cabling we're talking about; all that passes through USB cables is data, which can be either degraded or not degraded. Are you then suggesting that a $10 Rosewill USB cable will not pass data just as efficiently?
   
  By the same token, a $100 SATA cable running from your HDD to your motherboard will not make it work better than a $5 one. Period.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wage said:


> I'm not disputing whether they're great quality cables, but whether or not they actually improve the quality of the data sent through them. This is not analog cabling we're talking about; all that passes through USB cables is data, which can be either degraded or not degraded. Are you then suggesting that a $10 Rosewill USB cable will not pass data just as efficiently?


 
  Not that this is the place to discuss the subject but many suggest that jitter can affect the signal in any digital transfer.
  The signal will still come through but with slight timing differences.
  Now, with the E1 that is not such an issue as that is why the USB receiver is Asynchronous to avoid jitter issues, just making a point though.
  Some suggest there is no difference in analog cables, but I am guessing by your post you are suggesting there are differences?


----------



## Wage

Oh okay, well fair enough; I do not understand enough about jitter to comment on that, nor is my audio setup high quality enough to be concerned with timing differences (at least not yet). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I'd love to see an ABX test done with those $100+ USB cables and any Rosewill (e.g. great quality) or $1 generic (e.g. ****ty) one.
  Say, you don't happen to know a website that reviews that sorta stuff and who might be interested in taking up the task, do you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Also, in response to your last edit, I do not believe in the "$500 speaker cabling" BS, no, especially after reading some of the stuff in the audio theory part of this forum, but then again I have never listened to a $100,000 speaker setup either so I don't know at what point your sound system has to be before hearing a difference.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wage said:


> Oh okay, well fair enough; I do not understand enough about jitter to comment on that, nor is my audio setup high quality enough to be concerned with timing differences (at least not yet). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I'd love to see an ABX test done with those $100+ USB cables and any Rosewill (e.g. great quality) or $1 generic (e.g. ****ty) one.
> 
> Say, you don't happen to know a website that reviews that sorta stuff and who might be interested in taking up the task, do you?


 
  See if you can borrow a higher end cable and do the tests yourself.  The point being digital information is just more then 1's and 0's, it has a precise timing component.  That is where jitter comes into play, those slight differences. 
  Jitter is a real problem in digital circuitry that is a fact but the debate comes as to what type and levels are audible or not and it is a very big topic.  Not to mention their are over 10 different type of jitter last time I checked 
   
  That being said, I think there is a limit though between just a extremely high quality cable and snake oil but that seems to be a different level for different people as price is relative to the person doing the buying.


----------



## Wage

10 different types? Ugh, and here I was hoping to understand all of this sometime this century...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wage said:


> 10 different types? Ugh, and here I was hoping to understand all of this sometime this century...


 


  Over 10 types IIRC,  It has been awhile since I studied these topics, look up periodic Jitter, that is usually the one people are most concerned with when speaking on the subject of digital audio.
  Here is a good, simple explanation, have a look here:-> Jitter


----------



## Phos

This DAC has asynchronous USB, it _can't _receive jitter from the host.


----------



## dzonylan

robscix said:


> Strange, what is your setup?
> What connection type, player software, output plugin?




I use foobar 2k ofcourse. I tried using the latest default E1 drivers, than foobar 2k asio plugin and even asio4all drivers and the result is still the same unfortunately - "cracks" on high tones. 
Regarding the connectio type, as i alredy wrote the E1 is connected directly to pc through audioquest carbon usb cable. 

And just to sum up the discussion over the cables I will tell you that I can hear the difference in sound using that cable. Hovewer even changing the cable do not change my problem with cracks. 

Today a friend will come visit me with a laptop so I will try using a different
source and see if it changes a thing. 

But still if you have any ideas what might cause me this trouble I will be grateful. Maybe some windows issues (I use windows 7 by the way [with the latest patches ofc])?


----------



## Wage

dzonylan,

 Just in case your friend's laptop doesn't yield any different results, I would try removing all components one by one until the problem is isolated. Example:
   
  Still cracking on laptop? Change headphones.

 Still cracking with different headphones? Take E1 out of the loop.

 Still cracking without E1? Try different source files entirely.

 Still cracking after all that? No idea, sorry


----------



## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Since ST/STX are using quality DAC, capacitors,swappable opamps. Is it right to say that the extra quality sound that comes out from the essence one are mostly because of the power supply, circuit board and dual mono dacs?


 


  Anybody? I would like to seek enlightenment and learn new knowledge lol. Pretty curious how much a circuit board and dual mono dac can affect sound quality so much


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Anybody? I would like to seek enlightenment and learn new knowledge lol. Pretty curious how much a circuit board and dual mono dac can affect sound quality so much


 

 Sir, the extra quality counts for ST as you can see clearly here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/645
   
  This is the power consumption of ST/STX:
   

   
  Give it the power it needs and you 'll take it's top performance.
   
  And here is why ST betters STX:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/660
   
*Now, if you do not believe in measurements you can believe that ONE betters ST, O.k.*
   
  Remember that it is much easier to take low jitter from PCI connection than through USB or, even worse, through SPIDF. 
   
  Even if the dac is the best, the connection cable may destroy easily it's performance.
   
  Additionally, when you have dual dacs, there is the danger of _unequal _performance:
   

   
   
   
  Is that right mr. Robscix?
   
   



* *


----------



## Wage

lol hellenic, everytime you post I have absolutely nothing to say. Unlike video panels and high end displays, this audio stuff just seems like learning Chinese to me. Video? More like Spanish (see: a helluva lot easier, and makes a helluva lot more sense)...


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





wage said:


> lol hellenic, everytime you post I have absolutely nothing to say. Unlike video panels and high end displays, this audio stuff just seems like learning Chinese to me. Video? More like Spanish (see: a helluva lot easier, and makes a helluva lot more sense)...


 


  Hello my friend!
   
  Can you be more specific what you do not understand?
   
  I 'll try to explain it for you, although I am not a specialist! (Just a student.).
   
  Simply giving to some "details" the cherish they need...
   
  Using "fuzzy logic", since the distance from reality, sometimes, is very difficult to be overcomed.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





phos said:


> This DAC has asynchronous USB, it _can't _receive jitter from the host.


 


  Yes, I already mentioned that point but we were talking about USB cables and jitter in general.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





dzonylan said:


> I use foobar 2k ofcourse. I tried using the latest default E1 drivers, than foobar 2k asio plugin and even asio4all drivers and the result is still the same unfortunately - "cracks" on high tones.
> Regarding the connectio type, as i alredy wrote the E1 is connected directly to pc through audioquest carbon usb cable.
> And just to sum up the discussion over the cables I will tell you that I can hear the difference in sound using that cable. Hovewer even changing the cable do not change my problem with cracks.
> Today a friend will come visit me with a laptop so I will try using a different
> ...


 


 Try it on another system and if it still has the issue, then it needs to be returned.
  I was asking about your system, to make sure you weren't using some strange output plugin.
  Can you use a S/Pdif source and not the USB just to see if that helps?
  I have a feeling there might be something wrong with your E1 but we won;t know for sure until you try it on another system.
  Keep us posted.
   
  Wait, are you using a USB 3.0 port on your system?
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Anybody? I would like to seek enlightenment and learn new knowledge lol. Pretty curious how much a circuit board and dual mono dac can affect sound quality so much


 
  Circuit board design can help in that certain section are designed in specific ways like keeping the power sections away from the sensitive output sections  If you are talking about the circuit design as in the components then that is a bit different, higher quality Caps(filters), opamps and other components all work together to give you a pleasing overall signature.
   
  The dual Mono DAC, uses a separate chip for each channel, so the idea is to lower distortion, crosstalk..etc.  If you read the specification sheets of almost any high end audio DAC chip, they will always perform better in mono mode then stereo.  We seem to notice a similar thing with opamps also in that a pair of single channel opamps on an adapter will sound better then a dual channel opamp from the same family. 
   
  High end audio design seems to be as much of an art as it is as science.  If you have any more questions, I will do what I can to answer them.


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





phos said:


> This DAC has asynchronous USB, it _can't _receive jitter from the host.


 


   

 *[size=9pt]Jitter Management - Debunking the Asynchronous Myth[/size]*
   
[size=9pt]Some manufacturers may lead you to believe that Asynchronous USB transfers are superior to Adaptive USB transfers. This no more true than saying that you "must" hold the fork in your left hand. If you know what you are doing, you will feed yourself with either hand.[/size]
   
 [size=8.5pt]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]
 [size=9pt]The USB argument comes down to jitter management and goes as follows: In Asynchronous mode the device is the clock master. In Adaptive mode, the computer is the clock master. Either way works fine, if correct design principles are followed. Here is the tricky part that often gets omitted: No matter which side is the source of the clock (PC or DAC), the two devices are still connected by the USB cable and the digital data on that USB cable is always irregular because the computer is involved. Computers do many things at once and end up sending data over USB in irregular intervals, no matter who is the clock master on the bus. This irregularity causes jitter. So, there is no jitter-free solution, just like there is no dust-free house. Irregularity always creeps in and needs to be actively managed.[/size]
 [size=8.5pt]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]
   
 [size=9pt]Here is where the Asynchronous vs. Adaptive argument breaks down: In either of the two clocking schemes, jitter is present during transmission. It's inevitable and also ok, if it is properly cleaned up prior to the D/A conversion, where it matters most. Neither clocking scheme is superior and both are capable of performing well if you know how to reassemble the bits prior to the DAC. Now, how do you actually do that? There are many ways, the oldest and simplest of which is buffering. Irregular data comes in, regular data goes out. The most important part is to make sure that samples leaving the buffer on the way to the DAC are clocked accurately. DACport employs JitterGuard™, a proprietary two-stage clock management system that does just that - cleans up the jitter on the USB bus so that samples are virtually jitter-free at the D/A conversion point. [/size]
http://centrance.com/products/dacport/ (click design philosophy)
   
  Again discussed here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/493152/low-jitter-usb-dan-lavry-michael-goodman-adaptive-asynchronous
   
   
  So no guarantee that ONE has low jitter! 
   
  Is there any measurement?


----------



## stv014

Well, the adaptive method does have an additional source of low frequency jitter through having to dynamically adjust the clock frequency to synchronize with the average frequency of the (irregularly timed) data sent from the PC. This is not solved by buffering alone, it needs well designed PLL circuits to generate a stable clock. So, it is not true that the two approaches are equal. Although it can probably be made "low enough" in practice. The asynchronous mode is simpler, and only needs a good static clock frequency; it is more like internal sound cards.


----------



## hellenic vanagon

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Well, the adaptive method does have an additional source of low frequency jitter through having to dynamically adjust the clock frequency to synchronize with the average frequency of the (irregularly timed) data sent from the PC. This is not solved by buffering alone, it needs well designed PLL circuits to generate a stable clock. So, it is not true that the two approaches are equal. Although it can probably be made "low enough" in practice. The asynchronous mode is simpler, and only needs a good static clock frequency; it is more like internal sound cards.


 


  The good question is which is ONE's jitter, whatever system employs.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Well, the adaptive method does have an additional source of low frequency jitter through having to dynamically adjust the clock frequency to synchronize with the average frequency of the (irregularly timed) data sent from the PC. This is not solved by buffering alone, it needs well designed PLL circuits to generate a stable clock. So, it is not true that the two approaches are equal. Although it can probably be made "low enough" in practice. The asynchronous mode is simpler, and only needs a good static clock frequency; it is more like internal sound cards.


 

 All the information I have read on the subject would state that asynchronous is the better of the two.  It used to be that actual DAC's with asynchronous USB transfer were few and very expensive and out of the two methods, async is actually the newer method for transfer timing.
  Now that this CM6631 chip is here, I think you will see many more async based receiver DAC's without crazy price tags.
  I think it also says something that most of the flag ship DAC's from the higher end companies are all usually Async USB input.


----------



## vrln

Slightly off topic, but relevant to the E1: Windows 8 Customer Preview does NOT support USB Audio 2.0 devices out of the box, custom drivers still needed. We should organize a petition, if they don´t change this it will be the only major OS shipping without support. Luckily the W7 E1 drivers work nicely if installed in W7 compatibility mode.


----------



## ROBSCIX

There may be quite a few additions to the driver database prior to the actual RTM release.  I wouldn't worry too much about it right now but you might be right in the long run


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Slightly off topic, but relevant to the E1: Windows 8 Customer Preview does NOT support USB Audio 2.0 devices out of the box, custom drivers still needed. We should organize a petition, if they don´t change this it will be the only major OS shipping without support.


 

 They don't care...UAC2.0 is a niche audiophile market. They can't be hassled to implement it, I don't think their decision will ever change: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsdeveloperpreviewgeneral/thread/8760eb9e-98ec-463e-9514-77608850285c
   
  Their only practical solution would be to buy a license from Thesycon but that would most likely cost them a fortune...for what exactly? make a handful of audionuts happy?


----------



## trazom

USB is backwards compatible. USB  3.0 supports USB 1.0 and 2.0. IT should not be a problem. 
If there were one, manufacturers like Asus will certainly find a solution by proposing specific driver.


----------



## cladisch

> USB is backwards compatible. USB  3.0 supports USB 1.0 and 2.0.


 

 USB Audio 2.0 is a specification separate from USB 2.0.
  USB 1.x/2.0/3.0 are supported by Windows' built-in drivers, but USB Audio only in version 1.0.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Not to mention certain USB 3.0 hardware has been causing some issues with backwards compatibility and the E1.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Hey sorry for kinda going off-topic with the current topic.

 Do you guys personally recommend using this dac/amp as an all-in-one USB? As i skimmed i've been noticing some mix in what people say. 
 I'm planning to upgrade from my Fiio e7/e9 later in the future.


----------



## audionewbieyao

It depends on your definition of "all-in-one USB"
  If you mean all below together
  1. Headphone amp
  2. Pre amp
  3. USB DAC
  4. SPDIF DAC
   
  Then the Xonar Essence One should be the choice.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





audionewbieyao said:


> It depends on your definition of "all-in-one USB"
> If you mean all below together
> 1. Headphone amp
> 2. Pre amp
> ...


 

 i guess thats reasonable if youre simplifying this xD

 .


----------



## audionewbi

I think I might pick one up next week. I found my local computer shop can get this for me for $399 AUD. I will retired the Bresford for beside and use this as all in one desktop amp/preamp.
   
  Is it a good value? I really could find nothing else in this price range which does what this do. I found the Cambridge product and youlng, non had preamp feature.


----------



## Wage

Thank you for posting that video, Sniper. I subscribe to NCIX Tech Tips but not Linus' and keep forgetting to look at his channel. Fixed (subscribed to both now)


----------



## cisko

I just got the E1 last week, listening to electronic music sounds excellent paired with sen 650. Im not an expert at this, I do have a few questions to other E1 owners. Any feedback would be helpful.
   
  Question1. I do work while listening to headphones and I would like to drag the E1 to a different room. I want to hook my cowon x7 portable player into the e1 without buying more equiptment. I attempted a few times but it failed to work. at first i tryed hooking these cables up into the spdif.
  


 I also tryed hooking this 3mm adapter into into a coax cable. that also didnt work  


 Is there any  solution to this problem???
   
  Quesion 2. THe power button does it get real lose when the power is on? mine gets extra loose when power is on, and it hangs slightly downward at an angle.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cisko said:


> I just got the E1 last week, listening to electronic music sounds excellent paired with sen 650. Im not an expert at this, I do have a few questions to other E1 owners. Any feedback would be helpful.
> 
> Question1. I do work while listening to headphones and I would like to drag the E1 to a different room. I want to hook my cowon x7 portable player into the e1 without buying more equiptment. I attempted a few times but it failed to work. at first i tryed hooking these cables up into the spdif.
> 
> ...


 
  E1 can process only digital audio signals fed by USB, optical and RCA inputs. As your player has USB output, try to use it, but it is more likely that it will not work without dedicated driver that does not exist at the moment.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cisko said:


> I just got the E1 last week, listening to electronic music sounds excellent paired with sen 650. Im not an expert at this, I do have a few questions to other E1 owners. Any feedback would be helpful.
> 
> Question1. I do work while listening to headphones and I would like to drag the E1 to a different room. I want to hook my cowon x7 portable player into the e1 without buying more equiptment. I attempted a few times but it failed to work. at first i tryed hooking these cables up into the spdif.
> 
> ...


 
  No, none of those cables will work.  Unless your player has an S/pdif output you are out of luck.
  If I am following you correctly, you are connecting the analog output of your player to the digital input of the E1 and that will not work.


----------



## audionewbi

From what I have read E1 cannot function as stand alone amp. You need a source for it.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cisko said:


> I just got the E1 last week, listening to electronic music sounds excellent paired with sen 650. Im not an expert at this, I do have a few questions to other E1 owners. Any feedback would be helpful.
> 
> cut ...
> 
> ...


 

 I have received E1 today and power button is without too much "air" around - as it should be. Burn-in will start at the afternoon.


----------



## DMarasovic

First impressions after 24hr burn-in. Came with latest firmware and software (according to Asus website).
  Look and manufacturing is high-class. Knobs and buttons stay firmly, there is no imbalance between channels.
  Tried USB connection with laptop (Asus N73S) through Foobar 2000 and Asio. (W7 Home Premium)
  Bitperfect led is on and another led shows input bitrate.
  Tried coax connection to DVD player (Loewe - Philips inside).
  Tried optical connection to media center Tvix HD-S1.
  Every connection works flawlessly, with no artifacts or strange behaviour.
  When playing videos with DD, DTS or AAC coded soundtrack, player should be able to convert it to PCM format or there is no sound out of E1.
  The sound is as I like - transparent, with lot of details and great dynamics. Bass is linear and controlled, excellent match to my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro that are known for bottom extension. The highs sounded little more pronounced against my DIY amp, but lately I discovered that there is no lift in frequency response - there are simply more details that popped up.
  I need more time to connect it to my DIY active loudspeakers and evaluate soundstage etc.
  I hope that it would be a good match because there are NE5532 opamps inside Linkwitz-Riley 24 db active crossovers with balanced input. 
  First impression is very positive - E1 is obviously capable of driving higher quality (and more expensive) modern cans than mine.


----------



## vrln

Got my first new opamps, some stuff from Linear. Dual channel DIP8 stuff that should be "drop in" compatible. Going to test them tomorrow! First going to try replacing the LME49720´s with LT1364´s.
   
  Anyone know if it´s safe to swap the I/V and noise filter 5532´s with modern fast (in mhz) opamps like LT1364 or LME49720? [size=x-small]From what I´ve read it seems that there could be an issue with high frequency oscillation depending on the circuit. Not that I even remotely know what that means though![/size]


----------



## Faithless

Really digs near buying one of these.
 But there are so many options that still have to think about.


----------



## vrln

In the official opamp rolling (see E1 official site downloads) guide ASUS recommends the following stereo opamps as drop-in replacements:

*Analog Devices OP275
Analog Devices AD823 
NJRC MUSE01 
NJRC MUSE02 
NS LME49860
NS LME49720NA 
NS LM4562NA 
TI OPA2111
TI OPA2132
TI OPA2107*

Ordered those two Analog Devices ones and some other stuff from Digikey. Should be ready for some opamp rolling soon. Actually as soon as the Digikey package arrives I´ll have at least 2 of all of those except the NJRC ones.

It´s funny how ASUS recommends the MUSE02. Has anyone checked how expensive it is? Looks like 70 dollars per chip! If you replace all the opamps with those it will cost almost double the cost of the E1 itself


----------



## ROBSCIX

I recommended a few of those amps myself in my review.  Some are well known audio opamps though and generally known as upgrades.
   
  There are many expensive opamps out there but you don't need to go crazy to get good upgrade opamps.


----------



## vrln

Cancelled the order from Digikey as I thought they shipped from inside the EU. The euro prices with translated pages got me, should have been more careful. Was too tired to notice... Shipping from the US at just above the local customs "have to pay VAT etc" rate + UPS and their lovely almost 15 euro charge to handle customs with no choice of doing that yourself = 50% added cost. I have to say Digikey takes the prize for one of the worst customer service I´ve encountered: emailed them to cancel the order (I would pay shipping fees if they already sent the order) only to be told they don´t accept an order cancellation and that I would need to first accept the package here including paying the VAT + UPS customs handling fees and then file for a return, in other words I am not "allowed" to simply decline the package and have it automatically be returned to sender. Not only that, then my emails are shuffled around departments with people replying who obviously have no idea of the previous email discussion.
   
  Oh and to make things even better they saying (I read it as a threat) that Digikey can opt to "abandon" the package in which case I would be charged with the original package (even though I won´t even receive it) and various other fees. Just laughable really, after this I´ll make sure I stay as far away from Digikey as possible in the future and rely on Ebay instead. They might not always send authentic stuff, but this Digikey fight over a simple order cancellation is a complete joke. Lesson learned, at this point I would not accept the package even if they told me they sold it at -50% just to make a statement.


----------



## leeperry

Digikey is only good if you really can't find the chips you need from a reputable asian seller(that will declare them as "gift" and $1/pop) and have a friendly middle man in the US kind enough to reship them to you. Otherwise, that's a major no-go.
   
  The next lesson you'll learn is that dual opamps are a waste of time and money, but it'll take TOTL single opamps before you start believing me apparently ^^


----------



## vrln

Point taken. Actually I will believe you this time: so what single opamps should I buy? Anything out there worth trying in addition to AD797 and Burr-Brown 627? It seems Ebay is flooded with "plug & play" single opamps on browndog adapters at cheaper prices than Digikey too.


----------



## leeperry

Most 627's on ebay are fake, that's really the only chip you could/would/should get directly off a reputable authorized seller such as Digikey.
   
  Well, there are many cheap opamps on ebay because these are used(mostly desoldered from salvaged obsolete equipment) and they're not RoHS compliant so they can't be sold officially outside China.
   
  The ONE when filled w/ 797B's rocks really really really hard, this chip is the pinnacle of the opamp technology to my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  More infos here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Point taken. Actually I will believe you this time: so what single opamps should I buy? Anything out there worth trying in addition to AD797 and Burr-Brown 627? It seems Ebay is flooded with "plug & play" single opamps on browndog adapters at cheaper prices than Digikey too.


 


 I would advise you to check out the opamp thread in the DIY section, you will find many people there with extensive backgrounds in opamps and electronics as a whole.


----------



## vrln

Thanks, I´ll do that. I wonder if anyone has tried the horribly expensive MUSE02 that was just released a few years ago. Seems to be a cool 70 dollars per opamp. ASUS recommends it in their opamp list, heh


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Thanks, I´ll do that. I wonder if anyone has tried the horribly expensive MUSE02 that was just released a few years ago. Seems to be a cool 70 dollars per opamp. ASUS recommends it in their opamp list, heh


 
   
  The OPA6X7SM module would run you more then that. Like $250 in some places 6X7 metal can opamps.
  For expensive opamps, the trick is to try and find them for less money from other members of the community.
  Buy and sell forums..etc


----------



## vrln

Been doing some real listening with the E1 today as I have my HD 800 now. Switched the noise filter 5532 opamps with the 4562´s from the XLR output stage. Sounds a bit clearer, no added brightness at all. The E1 is on a way different league than the ST(X). Gone is the piercing treble glare, it sounds coherent, weighty and and has a nice surreal soundstage. This isn´t just an astounding value product, it´s a good amp and DAC in general. And it can only get better once I get to change more opamps. This isn´t the thin and bright sounding microdetail focused ST(X). To be honest I don´t think the two products compete directly with each other, they are going for entirely different voicings. I´d say the STX is studio (stereotype) while E1 is hi-fi.
   
  E1 is quite easy to listen to as well, it doesn´t really fatigue me and I am pretty sensitive to that. The overall sound is quite dark, which mates well with any neutral/a bit bright headphone (most headphones out there). I find the detail retrieval pretty good as well, actually hearing stuff I hadn´t noticed before on my speaker rig. It just doesn´t force you to focus on the details, I´d say the voicing is a PRAT one (feeling the music to restate the cliche). It isn´t the most detail focused DAC/amp out there. That said, if you concentrate on detail it is there: audible microdetail like hearing the studio room ambient noise/noise floor is there on precise headphones like the HD 800. I have to say I´m suprised the E1 is based on a modern Delta-Sigma TI DAC chip. I have heard Wolfson based products that sound good, but never before TI based (the PCM1704 stuff is another chapter though of course). All my previous experiences of TI Delta-Sigma have been so different, they have always sounded kind of bright and more or less full of glare. Seems like the DAC chip used doesn´t really mean that much...
   
  I can recommend this as a low cost (compared to what people run the HD 800 usually on) alternative for these headphones. It drives them well enough to make me not miss a full separates rig. That´s the highest compliment I can say.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *vrln* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Seems like the DAC chip used doesn´t really mean that much.


 
   
  It's the output stage that colors the sound the most, and you really need to go up the food chain opamp-wise in order to unleash the sonic potential of this monster. You ain't heard nothing yet


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Been doing some real listening with the E1 today as I have my HD 800 now. Switched the noise filter 5532 opamps with the 4562´s from the XLR output stage. Sounds a bit clearer, no added brightness at all. The E1 is on a way different league than the ST(X). Gone is the piercing treble glare, it sounds coherent, weighty and and has a nice surreal soundstage. This isn´t just an astounding value product, it´s a good amp and DAC in general. And it can only get better once I get to change more opamps. This isn´t the thin and bright sounding microdetail focused ST(X). To be honest I don´t think the two products compete directly with each other, they are going for entirely different voicings. I´d say the STX is studio (stereotype) while E1 is hi-fi.
> 
> E1 is quite easy to listen to as well, it doesn´t really fatigue me and I am pretty sensitive to that. The overall sound is quite dark, which mates well with any neutral/a bit bright headphone (most headphones out there). I find the detail retrieval pretty good as well, actually hearing stuff I hadn´t noticed before on my speaker rig. It just doesn´t force you to focus on the details, I´d say the voicing is a PRAT one (feeling the music to restate the cliche). It isn´t the most detail focused DAC/amp out there. That said, if you concentrate on detail it is there: audible microdetail like hearing the studio room ambient noise/noise floor is there on precise headphones like the HD 800. I have to say I´m suprised the E1 is based on a modern Delta-Sigma TI DAC chip. I have heard Wolfson based products that sound good, but never before TI based (the PCM1704 stuff is another chapter though of course). All my previous experiences of TI Delta-Sigma have been so different, they have always sounded kind of bright and more or less full of glare. Seems like the DAC chip used doesn´t really mean that much...
> 
> I can recommend this as a low cost (compared to what people run the HD 800 usually on) alternative for these headphones. It drives them well enough to make me not miss a full separates rig. That´s the highest compliment I can say.


 

 Good stuff, you can tune that device pretty good with some high end opamps.


----------



## vrln

Replaced the four I/V 5532´s with OPA2132´s... It sounds less boring, actually I think it clearly moved closer to the "BB house sound stereotype": mellow, bass isn´t as precise, dark and a bit slow (could get better), but very smooth and a nice sense of rhythm. Very forgiving, you can listen to anything with these. The 5532´s are definitely not coming back, even though I won´t end up keeping the OPA2132´s in I/V.
   
  EDIT: Some more testing... Sure async USB may be all the rage these days, but the E1 undeniably sounds better in my setup from my motherboards optical out than via USB. It´s like a veil is lifted. Tried many times and always come to the same conclusion. Lower noise floor, better separation. Seems like the SPDIF reclocking on the E1 is very good, I won´t be using the USB input anymore from now on. Maybe my PC´s USB output is just way too noisy? It´s a passive mini-ITX PC running off a switch switch mode external power brick, so I think that´s the cause. In other words in this case: galvanic isolation > lower jitter. The USB input is also prone to clicking when switching songs in Foobar, there are crackles every time you switch song (yeah, I know this is common with almost all USB interfaces). Optical does the "switch a song pop" quite rarely. Also I have a feeling there might be some timing issues with USB (possibly driver related), there are some slight pops in the sound every now and then even during songs. They aren´t major though, only noticed it after they are no longer there on optical.


----------



## Mutsu

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Most 627's on ebay are fake, that's really the only chip you could/would/should get directly off a reputable authorized seller such as Digikey.
> 
> Well, there are many cheap opamps on ebay because these are used(mostly desoldered from salvaged obsolete equipment) and they're not RoHS compliant so they can't be sold officially outside China.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm new to opamp rolling and keen to try my Essence One with 797B's as you rate them so highly.
   
  Couple of questions if you don't mind helping:
   
  1. After reading the Asus Essence One opamp swap guide, I'm unsure how many 797B's I would need to buy. 
  Should I buy 4 for the I/V converters, 2 for the Low Pass Filters and 1 each for RCA and Headphone outputs.... Or?
   
  2. Are these chips straight replacements? I.E. Old ones straight out, new ones straight in?
   
  I've spotted the 797B's here - http://uk.farnell.com/analog-devices/ad797brz/ic-op-amp-ultra-ln-8soic/dp/1651308
  Can you confirm that these will work in the E1?
   
  Thanks


----------



## vrln

mutsu said:


> I'm new to opamp rolling and keen to try my Essence One with 797B's as you rate them so highly.
> 
> Couple of questions if you don't mind helping:
> 
> ...




As far as I know (I´m not an expert, only started opamp rolling a few days ago):

The 797B´s are not "drop in" replacements. If you check the E1 opamp swap guide, all the opamps recommended by ASUS are dual channel ones in a DIP-8 package (through hole, 8 pins). The E1 uses dual channel opamps. The 797B is a single channel opamp - never tried any but pretty much every experienced opamp roller says they are superior to dual channel ones. 

In order to se 797B´s in the E1, you will need an adapter that that connects two single channel opamps into a single DIP-8 dual channel opamp slot (the ones the E1 uses). You will also need to solder the opamps into the adapter, or buy an adapter with the two opamps soldered in already from Ebay for example. That said, be careful: with incorrectly soldered adapters you can blow the E1 and the headphones connected to it. I´ve never used an adapter though, so far only straight dual channel DIP-8 opamp replacements.

Also if you are rolling straight replacements, be sure to insert the opamps in the correct direction. Failure to do this can also blow the circuit and your headphones as far as I know. Even though I always double check things, I use cheap headphones to plug in to my E1 after every opamp roll just in case...

Oh and about that link you provided, to me that looks pretty overpriced compared to Ebay.


----------



## Mutsu

Thanks Vrln.
   
  Based on your advice I've done a little more research and come across these:
   
  Dip8 Single to Dip Dual
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-DIP8-Single-to-DIP8-Dual-Opamp-Adaptor-Socket-Gold-Plated-/180749610268?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a15842d1c#ht_422wt_132
   
  AD797BN (Dip-8)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IC-AD-DIP-8-AD797AN-AD797BN-AD797ANZ-/250814814706?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a65ba59f2#ht_1741wt_1037
   
  No idea if the Dip8 single to dual will fit into the E1 without being raised (As it's wider than using a single 'drop-in' opamp).
   
  Do you have any advice as to which opamps I should replace to start with? Perhaps just the RCA/Headphone output opamps, or should I go and change them all at once?


----------



## leeperry

This ebay listing is a bait, he's sending AD797AN.
   
  the DIP8 version of 797 won't fit in the ONE, you need two SOIC8 versions soldered onto adapters.
   
  brand new BRZ are quite pricey, used BR from China are cheap.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





mutsu said:


> Thanks Vrln.
> 
> Based on your advice I've done a little more research and come across these:
> 
> ...


 
  The DIP8 AD797 can work in the One but you will require an adapter because the AD797's are single channel.  While they can work, I wouldn't use them as it would take extra expense.
   
  I wouldn't go crazy and order a bunch of AD797's.  I would order a few to try them out in the headphone output or RCA as you said.  This will give you an idea as to if they are for you or not.  The AD797 is not suited for every position in the E1, I am not sure any opamp would be.
  There is an opamp thread in the DIY section.


----------



## vrln

I´d interpret from the ASUS guide that the 4562 / 49720 are what ASUS would have wanted to use in the I/V at least, but it would have cost too much to run them in the entire circuit (11 opamps cost a lot)...

Almost all the examples use those two in the I/V section. Buffer is what varies the most in the examples, and headphone output not at all. This is of course purely speculation, but I would start by filling the I/V and buffer with the 4562/49720 (or improved variants of them) and then start switching the headphone output opamps. That said, National recommends the 49720 with the headphone buffer driver LME49600... One pretty safe thing to do would be to just fill the entire box with 49720´s.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





ccarl said:


> Can you plug in cd-player if you cant lisent to the laptop? It says it has rca-output does it work?The noforce HDP has rca-input and output,,im confused I dont know so much about audio
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sure, if your CD player has S/Pdif output, connect it up to the E1 and your good to go.
  The only inputs on the E1 are for Digital sources, S/Pdif coaxial, optical and USB.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





ccarl said:


> No it has rca i/o and my other one have only a minjack output, so I guess it works then? with 2x2 rca cable or a minijack to rca? Well I might have this option only if my laptop is been broken. And want to lisent to my music on the cd player.


 
   
  Not quite sure what has what, your post is a bit hard to understand, anyway:
   
  The E1 only has digital inputs...so if your CD player doesn't have a digital output, you will not be able to use this DAC to listen to music from your CD player.  To note, many DVD players will have a digital output, so if you have a DVD player around, check it and you might be able to use that for CD's with the E1.


----------



## ROBSCIX

OK, sure you can use a PS2 or other device with digital output connected to the Essence One.
   
  I hope that makes sense.


----------



## GChiu

You can otherwise get an Analog to Digital Converter to connect your analog devices to Essence One.
  
  Quote: 





robscix said:


> OK, sure you can use a PS2 or other device with digital output connected to the Essence One.
> 
> I hope that makes sense.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gchiu said:


> You can otherwise get an Analog to Digital Converter to connect your analog devices to Essence One.


 

 Seems like alot of extra expense for a simple task.  Even cheap set top DVD players will have an optical output and as he said his PS2 has one also, so he is good to go with the Essence One and the PS2.


----------



## vrln

I am quite liking the 49720. Very detailed and clean opamp. Also noticed that the headphone amp IC 49600 is actually pretty expensive! Would these be a good choice if I wanted an easy upgrade from the stock sound: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49710HA-X2-Adaptor-/180749622308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a15845c24#ht_500wt_1180 

I think that seller is using the "heavy" adapters some people here have praised.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> I am quite liking the 49720. Very detailed and clean opamp. Also noticed that the headphone amp IC 49600 is actually pretty expensive! Would these be a good choice if I wanted an easy upgrade from the stock sound: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49710HA-X2-Adaptor-/180749622308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a15845c24#ht_500wt_1180
> I think that seller is using the "heavy" adapters some people here have praised.


 

 Yes, the LME49720 are great opamps, same as the LM4562.  The best out of the family is the dual LME49710HA.  I have built both LME49720HA and dual LME49710HA for a few members around here or use in a few different sources.


----------



## vrln

Now my E1 is full of LM4562/LME49720. It sounds glorious, so detailed and extremely three dimensional. Feels like a different DAC now. I can recommend this as a cheap, easy and efficient upgrade. Actually I wonder why ASUS didn´t use these by default, most likely cost reasons as the E1 sells for a lot less than comparable products. Having rolled various dual channel Burr Brown opamps the LME49720/4562 is so far my favorite, and it doesn´t cost that much either. This opamp is extremely good value for money.

Getting really curious what AD797B/LME49710/OPA627 sound like!


----------



## bizkid

I also have my E1 here for around 2 weeks by now. The basic sound is almost too good to be true for the pricerange. I have owned 3 DAC1 before and serveral others, currently i have 1 DAC1 left that will be sold soon and a metric halo uln-8. My current Monitors are Focal CMS65 + CMS Sub, but i'm waiting for a K+H O300 refresh from Neumann 
   
  Soundwise everything has been said already. Besides that I think most people here (yet) underate the upsampling. It's as good as it get's even in the most expensive highend gear (weiss...). Just compare it to the foobar sox resampler... that one looses so clearly it's not even funny.. Especially with sensitive headphones:
   

   
  On speakers the difference is alot minor but still noticable, mostly in a clearer more 3d like soundstage and cleaner transient response.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Now my E1 is full of LM4562/LME49720. It sounds glorious, so detailed and extremely three dimensional. Feels like a different DAC now. I can recommend this as a cheap, easy and efficient upgrade. Actually I wonder why ASUS didn´t use these by default, most likely cost reasons as the E1 sells for a lot less than comparable products. Having rolled various dual channel Burr Brown opamps the LME49720/4562 is so far my favorite, and it doesn´t cost that much either. This opamp is extremely good value for money.
> Getting really curious what AD797B/LME49710/OPA627 sound like!


 

 They are great chips in the right design.  The LME49710 is a step up again, especially when considering the TO-99 metal can opamps.  I would have been very expensive to drop in LME's even in the buffers.  I don't recommend using the same opamp for every circuit position.  Some opamps are better suited to certain positions/tasks but that is what you learn with experience so keep at it.  Enjoy.


----------



## vrln

I think I read somewhere that even some of the National designers feel the metal can versions sound superior, but don´t know why and now won´t as they have been fired (were just about to start looking into it when it happened). It seems the LME49720 works pretty well in all roles in the E1, as it´s suggested in both I/V and filter multiple times in the official opamp rolling guide. The recommendations there have to come from the designers, I doubt marketing made the calls which opamps to recommend there. I´d be very interested especially in hearing the metal can dual LME49710´s and the MUSE02 opamps...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





vrln said:


> I think I read somewhere that even some of the National designers feel the metal can versions sound superior, but don´t know why and now won´t as they have been fired (were just about to start looking into it when it happened). It seems the LME49720 works pretty well in all roles in the E1, as it´s suggested in both I/V and filter multiple times in the official opamp rolling guide. The recommendations there have to come from the designers, I doubt marketing made the calls which opamps to recommend there. I´d be very interested especially in hearing the metal can dual LME49710´s and the MUSE02 opamps...


 

 To-99 are generally accepted as the highest quality unit in any opamp family.  Your E1, use whatever opamp in whatever position you want.  I only gave you an opinion but it is more of a guideline that certain types of opamps are generally preferred for certain tasks.  Use what sounds good though!
   
  I have built more LME49710HA modules for members of the audio community then I can count and I have always received excellent feedback.  The only issue, is they are a bit wide and sometimes they can be hard to fit in some devices.  The units I build fit perfect in the buffer stage for the head-amp just in case you are wondering 
  Good luck in your rolling.


----------



## Mutsu

I'm having a nightmare sourcing opamps at a decent price in the UK. Most places incur a shipping fee from the US of around £15 which is more than I intended to pay for the set of opamps themselves.
   
  Can any UK peeps point me in the direction of suppliers in the UK where I can order some of the drop in opamps as suggested in the opamp swap guide/this thread, please?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





mutsu said:


> I'm having a nightmare sourcing opamps at a decent price in the UK. Most places incur a shipping fee from the US of around £15 which is more than I intended to pay for the set of opamps themselves.
> 
> Can any UK peeps point me in the direction of suppliers in the UK where I can order some of the drop in opamps as suggested in the opamp swap guide/this thread, please?


 

 If you want high grade opamps you are going to have to pay for them.  You will not get a full set of opamps for that low of a price.
  I think the stock opamps would be worth more then that, if I cam getting the conversion right.
  You shouldn't have to import them from the US though as there should be a local place but I am not sure exactly where.


----------



## zoky

Hi,
   
  I have just got asus essence one and i got a problem. I have installed all the latest drivers and upgraded firmware as the asus tray icon also shows and sound is perfect but every once in a while occuring randomly sound stops for about a second like pressing mute button and then resumes. On average at about 3 to 4 minutes intervals. It can happen several times a minute or not happen for 15 min. I hooked it via usb to laptop and have win 7 32 bit. 
  Happens with footbar2000, vlc, internet explorer, asio( with footbar) all options produce this occasional mute although it seems to me it is more prevalent on internet explorer when listening on youtube.
   
  Anybody has any ideas???


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sounds like a possible conflict.  Hard to say, try using a different USB port and see if that helps.
  Also make sure you are using the latest drivers for your motherboard..etc.


----------



## zoky

Tried all usb ports to no avail.
   
  I agree it must be conflct. The reason is probably because i am using vista chipset drivers on win7 OS. The reason is i cannot find win7 drivers for my laptop and so far everything worked well.


----------



## joe_cool

Maybe your wireless network adapter drivers, they are known to cause problems with latency?


----------



## qqexpress

Hey, I have gone to the asus support website and updated the firmware and drivers, but it remains being to stay stuck on the usb output at all times. Its not a big deal for me though, I am not that nitpicky about such minor details. However, what I have noticed is that once in a while there is a slight static noise that is produced when using the E1 . . . initially it was very loud and distinct but lately it has gone down and cannot be heard over the music i listen to. I think I narrowed it down to my macbook usb ports because I was running into the same static when using a Creative Surround Sound Blaster X-Fi 5.1 Converter with my Logitech x530 speakers. I was just wondering if anyone else ran into this static problem as well??


----------



## qqexpress

Those points aren't so bad in the end. After a while you get over it. I am currently enjoying using the E1 right now!


----------



## Mutsu

Yea, I seem to be finding very fluctuating prices for opamps on different web sites. Ebay averages about £12 per dual opamp but Farnel has then for about £2.
   
  Came across this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270934755561#ht_500wt_1156
  I emailed the seller and he is not totally sure if they will work in the Essence one, I'm going to provide him with more info so he can advise.
   
  EDIT - Also spotted these which could be worth a try? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190629659561#ht_1069wt_1270


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





mutsu said:


> Yea, I seem to be finding very fluctuating prices for opamps on different web sites. Ebay averages about £12 per dual opamp but Farnel has then for about £2.
> 
> Came across this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270934755561#ht_500wt_1156
> I emailed the seller and he is not totally sure if they will work in the Essence one, I'm going to provide him with more info so he can advise.
> ...


 
  The first units are compatible with the circuit, but they may have trouble with size.  I would suggest the metal an versions of those opamps.  They are the higher grade module...
  The second modules should work but I have not tested them personally...yet.


----------



## cglin222

Quote: 





vrln said:


> Now my E1 is full of LM4562/LME49720. It sounds glorious, so detailed and extremely three dimensional. Feels like a different DAC now. I can recommend this as a cheap, easy and efficient upgrade. Actually I wonder why ASUS didn´t use these by default, most likely cost reasons as the E1 sells for a lot less than comparable products. Having rolled various dual channel Burr Brown opamps the LME49720/4562 is so far my favorite, and it doesn´t cost that much either. This opamp is extremely good value for money.
> Getting really curious what AD797B/LME49710/OPA627 sound like!


 

 Hi, can you let me know how you have your  LM4562/LME49720 placed on the E1 ie, section 1,2,3a,3b and 4 on the E1 with these two op-amp.
  Also can you share where you bought them from?
   
  Are you able to describe the sound now vs the stock sound?
   
  Thanks


----------



## bizkid

I only have 2 LME49720 around and i exchanged them over the weekend with the 5532 in the filter section... not good. Stock is definately better... with the LME it sounds like all transients are half chopped off.. you get a better soundstage though but no thanks. Maybe the LME49720/family needs some adjustments to the circuit in this case.
  Anyway I'll have some AD797, OPA827 and 49990 coming my way


----------



## zoky

Finally managed to repair it. It was my nvida 8600 gt drivers that were for vista. But everything OK now.
   
  So ok i am considering buying sennheiser hd700 to go along with this E1. How do you guys think these two will match up?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





zoky said:


> Finally managed to repair it. It was my nvida 8600 gt drivers that were for vista. But everything OK now.
> 
> So ok i am considering buying sennheiser hd700 to go along with this E1. How do you guys think these two will match up?


 


  Probably great since E1 apparently works great with HD800.


----------



## qqexpress

@zoky - lol i was going for the same thing.

 really wanna try switching out the opamps but too scared that i might mess something up =(


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





qqexpress said:


> @zoky - lol i was going for the same thing.
> 
> really wanna try switching out the opamps but too scared that i might mess something up =(


 


  You just have to be careful when you remove the amps that you do not bend the pins or damage anything around the socket, like a capacitor.
  Opamps and sockets are marked so you can get the orientation correct because if you install them backwards you will toast the opamp or worse.
  If you need help, you can ask somebody to walk you through it.  Start with the easy ones, the opamps that are sitting in more of an open spot.
  Make sure you understand the markings though...if you don't, then ask.


----------



## adreamer

I bought Essence one recently. I've been using this for around 7-8 hours. Does the sound change after some more burn-in? Reason is that, currently I'm feeling that sound is a bit harsh(on top end). Does the sound become a bit "smooth" after some time? Or do I have start on opamps?
   
  Also, the sound changes between USB and optical? So far I'm using only USB...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Do you mean you erased the firmware, well then try re-installing the firmware.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





adreamer said:


> I bought Essence one recently. I've been using this for around 7-8 hours. Does the sound change after some more burn-in? Reason is that, currently I'm feeling that sound is a bit harsh(on top end). Does the sound become a bit "smooth" after some time? Or do I have start on opamps?
> 
> Also, the sound changes between USB and optical? So far I'm using only USB...


 
  People have different opinions on burn-in but many say that as time goes on certain components in the circuit can burn-in making the unit sound better.
  The USB input is a very high quality implementation s if you are hearing differences when using the Optical over the USB it is because the signal you are sending to the E1 might be lower quality in comparison.
  I noticed the sound of the E1 as being very smooth, warm and not harsh at all, perhaps your headphone are a bad match?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





adreamer said:


> I bought Essence one recently. I've been using this for around 7-8 hours. Does the sound change after some more burn-in? Reason is that, currently I'm feeling that sound is a bit harsh(on top end). Does the sound become a bit "smooth" after some time? Or do I have start on opamps?
> 
> Also, the sound changes between USB and optical? So far I'm using only USB...


 
  After 50 hours of using E1 it seems that top end is smoother - precise, full of details, but less harsh. Just let to settle down - option to swap opamps is allways here.


----------



## adreamer

Quote: 





robscix said:


> People have different opinions on burn-in but many say that as time goes on certain components in the circuit can burn-in making the unit sound better.
> The USB input is a very high quality implementation s if you are hearing differences when using the Optical over the USB it is because the signal you are sending to the E1 might be lower quality in comparison.
> I noticed the sound of the E1 as being very smooth, warm and not harsh at all, perhaps your headphone are a bad match?


 
  I haven't tried with optical yet. I was just wondering whether there is any difference between these two. I'm using a "modded" fostex t50rp with this. It is quite possible that my "mods" are bad and that is causing this.
  
  @DMarasovic:
   
  I'll try using this for some more time. If this doesn't work may be I'll start looking into new cans. Thanks!


----------



## GChiu

I have experienced audible differences with TOSLINK and USB. See post 460 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/450#post_7961750). This happens with and without upsampling. The difference is audible with a low end computer speaker and my Q701. I have already have hundreds of hours with E1 and the difference continues to persist. Although I am not sure whether the nuance was in the original recording, the difference doesn't bother me much anyway.
  
  Quote: 





adreamer said:


> I haven't tried with optical yet. I was just wondering whether there is any difference between these two. I'm using a "modded" fostex t50rp with this. It is quite possible that my "mods" are bad and that is causing this.
> 
> @DMarasovic:
> 
> I'll try using this for some more time. If this doesn't work may be I'll start looking into new cans. Thanks!


----------



## lancma

Hi, I'm to this forum, but I hope you would advice me.
   
  I bough Xonar Essence One few days ago, and there is everything fine in general. I upgraded drivers and so on without the major problems.
  I connected E1 to my PC through good USB cable.
   
  But what worries me is that... I don't hear the difference between listening to FLAC through E1 on my pc and.. listening to FLAC's (converted to m4a ofc) from iPhone directly using D1100 headphones.
   
  And I'm definitely not deaf, as my colleges don't hear to the difference as well. I use E1 along with D1100.
   
  That's not the way I expected it to be, after reading all this good things about E1 on this forum.
   
  Damn, am I doing sth wrong? The sound coming through the E1 should be far more better, more detailed and with better soundstage than from stupid iPhone, right?
   
  Please give me some feedback.


----------



## hughJ

I've always been terrible at A vs B tests for brand new equipment.  Every time I've had trouble differentiating, I simply stopped listening to the old equipment (the one I was used to hearing) for a week or so and let myself grow accustomed to the new one, and after switched back and the difference was very obvious.  Not sure if that's related to burn-in, or just the psychological factor of expecting to hear something other-worldly different and it not meeting those initial expectations.  I would bet though if you listen to the E1 exclusively for a week and then go back to your iphone you'll hear a huge difference.
  
  Quote: 





lancma said:


> Hi, I'm to this forum, but I hope you would advice me.
> 
> I bough Xonar Essence One few days ago, and there is everything fine in general. I upgraded drivers and so on without the major problems.
> I connected E1 to my PC through good USB cable.
> ...


----------



## cglin222

Besides what hughJ mentioned, try using foobar2000 to play back? You can download the ASIO component plugin and on the preference in foobar2000, selece Essence One ASIO as output, and you'll get BitPerfect on your E1.
   
  I tried my Hifi 780 and HD800 on E1 as well as Audioengine D1, both of these on different DAC sounded differently.
  And I am only using MP3 files
   
  Quote: 





hughj said:


> I've always been terrible at A vs B tests for brand new equipment.  Every time I've had trouble differentiating, I simply stopped listening to the old equipment (the one I was used to hearing) for a week or so and let myself grow accustomed to the new one, and after switched back and the difference was very obvious.  Not sure if that's related to burn-in, or just the psychological factor of expecting to hear something other-worldly different and it not meeting those initial expectations.  I would bet though if you listen to the E1 exclusively for a week and then go back to your iphone you'll hear a huge difference.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





lancma said:


> Hi, I'm to this forum, but I hope you would advice me.
> 
> I bough Xonar Essence One few days ago, and there is everything fine in general. I upgraded drivers and so on without the major problems.
> I connected E1 to my PC through good USB cable.
> ...


 
  Definitely there should be a difference, but it is like the equation with more variables. The first is the headfone. I have not heard those Denons, but according to reviews and graphs they seem to be bass heavy and that can mask the details in upper range. The second is PC audio software that can color or equalize the sound. The third is the source audio material. For testing you should use known high quality recordings - preferably acoustic, because there is a lot of details to compare. You shuld also be aware that many flac encoded files found on Web are made from low quality sources, even mp3. My personal 2 month experience with E1 is that it is easy to differentiate the source material - sometimes it is too analytic. Maybe some op amp upgrading would make it more forgiving ("musical") ?


----------



## lancma

Hi thanks a lot for the feedback.
   
  Regarding some of the advices: I'm using Foobar 2000 with ASIO drivers already and I'm using personally ripped CD's to FLAC, so I'm sure they are of high quality..
   
  May there be sth with the PC itself that might degrade the sound quality?


----------



## adreamer

Quote: 





gchiu said:


> I have experienced audible differences with TOSLINK and USB. See post 460 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/450#post_7961750). This happens with and without upsampling. The difference is audible with a low end computer speaker and my Q701. I have already have hundreds of hours with E1 and the difference continues to persist. Although I am not sure whether the nuance was in the original recording, the difference doesn't bother me much anyway.


 

 After using it for some more time and changing source material (higher bit rate), output is much better. May be related to my getting used to dac also a reason.
   
  Changing to TOSLINK, I can hear a difference. Highs are a bit tamed and everything is a bit smooth compared to USB. May be because TOSLINK cable is of low quality, but I like toslink output better than USB.
   
  Now dac is much better. Thanks for all your inputs!


----------



## cglin222

Does anyone know how I would connect another headphone amp to Asus Essence One?
  Do I connect the output of the RCA from E1 to input of headphone amp, that way I won't be using E1's headphone out, does that work?
   
  Also, can you do DAC stacking? Say my E1 to another DAC to another headphone, how would that work?  Since E1 already processed the digital signal, how does the other DAC process it?
   
  Thanks


----------



## DMarasovic

Originally Posted by *cglin222* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


> Does anyone know how I would connect another headphone amp to Asus Essence One?  Do I connect the output of the RCA from E1 to input of headphone amp, that way I won't be using E1's headphone out, does that work?


 

  Yes, and there is separate volume potentiometer for RCA (together with XLR) output .
   /img/forum/go_quote.gif


> Also, can you do DAC stacking? Say my E1 to another DAC to another headphone, how would that work?  Since E1 already processed the digital signal, how does the other DAC process it?


 

  Digital signal gets converted inside E1, so there is no way to transfer it out.
  Maybe it is possible to split digital stream before E1 with some kind of Y splitter. This may work with optical and coax input because they are one way transfer. With USB it would not be possible.
  Did somebody try it ?


----------



## Mutsu

Ok, so I have just had 3 opamps arrive, but it's just occured to me that I have absolutely no idea which way the chips need to be installed.
   
  I have 1x http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LME49720HA-LME49720-TO99-DIP8-/190653873559?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c63db3d97#ht_1001wt_1270
  And 2x http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190641930863?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_709wt_1270
   
  I was going to install the 4920ha in to the RCA out to start with and the 2x 49990 in the low pass filter.
   
  The 4920ha has a small point at the base of the metal cap, but it does not line up with the dots on my existing opamps when the pins are in line with the holes.
   
  Similarly with the 2x 49990, the dot on the top of the chip will not sit the same was as the current opamps because the legs are pointing the wrong way.
   
  Any advice getting these installed would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Mutsu

I have just noticed that the opamp sockets on the essence have a little notch on one side, and the new opamps also have a notch in the board/design on the pcb.
   
  Is it a simple case of matching these notches to get the correct orientation?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





mutsu said:


> I have just noticed that the opamp sockets on the essence have a little notch on one side, and the new opamps also have a notch in the board/design on the pcb.
> 
> Is it a simple case of matching these notches to get the correct orientation?


 
  Yes, that notches are for orientation.


----------



## Mutsu

Got it working, there is definitely an improvement in details over the stock op amps. Bass is more punchy but I think trebles are slightly too bright in current configuration.
   
  I think I'm going to order all LME49990 as the guy now has more in stock, see how this compares as I've heard good things about the Essence one with all 49990.
   
  If anyone has any other suggestions to try please let me know.


----------



## leeperry

the 49xxx opamp family has alway sounded too bright IME, especially 49990 as PCM1793 LPF. If all the raving you can read about this chip is not just sheer fanboyism, then I would guess that it's definitely not a good candidate for blind opamp rolling.


----------



## Mutsu

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> the 49xxx opamp family has alway sounded too bright IME, especially 49990 as PCM1793 LPF. If all the raving you can read about this chip is not just sheer fanboyism, then I would guess that it's definitely not a good candidate for blind opamp rolling.


 

 From your experience, what op amp combinations work best? The guy I am buying from on ebay may be able to build some different pcbs.
   
  Thanks


----------



## leeperry

Did you read the last pages? to my ears nothing matches AD797B and OPA602B 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  A good thread to start this hobby, AD797B came up as a clear winner: http://www.head-fi.org/t/397691/
   
  And a lot of raved about DAC's use AD797:
   
  http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.fr/2011/12/audiophile-review-resnoessence-invicta.html (this one costs $4K 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  http://www.reinaudio.com/X-DAC.html
   
  When I'll be bored, I'll try to roll 602B in the headamp of the ONE but I'm not even sure they'd fit. That's on my list of stuff to try on a bored rainy day


----------



## Sk1n5

I'm currently using AD797Bs in the I/V and Output sections. I did have them in the LPF section as well, but found LT1028s to sound clearer imo.


----------



## leeperry

LT1028C or AC? these sound drastically different IME, but this chip is not "unity gain stable" so it can easily oscillate...IME it pretty much always will if rolled blindly. In one of my previous DAC, the AC grade was oscillating like hell in the MHz range ^^
   
  Got any pics to share?


----------



## Ssang

Do you guys know the output impedance of the E1 ? Is that 10ohm ?


----------



## stv014

.


----------



## cglin222

Did you get a chance to try out AD797 and LME49990 and compare the sound?
   
   
  Quote: 





bizkid said:


> I only have 2 LME49720 around and i exchanged them over the weekend with the 5532 in the filter section... not good. Stock is definately better... with the LME it sounds like all transients are half chopped off.. you get a better soundstage though but no thanks. Maybe the LME49720/family needs some adjustments to the circuit in this case.
> Anyway I'll have some AD797, OPA827 and 49990 coming my way


----------



## Sk1n5

So I obtained a digital O-Scope. You were right about the LT1028, they do oscillate at around 25Mhz at around 60mV. My question on this, however, is how does this at all affect the audio performance of the opamp. I mean we're talking about an oscillation that's 1250x beyond the range of normal human hearing. As far as other chips I have that I had enough of to test in certain positions. OPA627AU doesn't introduce any oscillation in any of the three stages. AD797B is fine in the I/V stage and the Output Buffer, but introduces an oscillation when installed in the LPF Stage. I only have 3 LME49990s at the moment, but when applied to the LPF and Output Buffer no oscillation was introduced.
   
  Correction: I found a similar 25Mhz oscillation at 0.1V for the LME49990s in the LPF Stage.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> AD797B is fine in the I/V stage and the Output Buffer, but introduces an oscillation when installed in the LPF Stage. I only have 3 LME49990s at the moment, but when applied to the LPF and Output Buffer no oscillation was introduced.
> 
> Correction: I found a similar 25Mhz oscillation at 0.1V for the LME49990s in the LPF Stage.


 

 yay, bad news! what about AD797B in the headamp if you could test please?
   
  I think 1028 and 797 can have a resistor soldered onto one of their pins ino order to become UGS.
   
  An unstable opamp is not a good thing, as it can output audible artifacts randomly. And oscillation can also shorten the MTBF. It can also make the sound brighter and shrill.


----------



## cglin222

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> yay, bad news! what about AD797B in the headamp if you could test please?
> 
> I think 1028 and 797 can have a resistor soldered onto one of their pins ino order to become UGS.
> 
> An unstable opamp is not a good thing, as it can output audible artifacts randomly. And oscillation can also shorten the MTBF. It can also make the sound brighter and shrill.


 


 How about AD8620BR on LPF section? I plan to put LME49990 on I/V and AD8620BR on LPF and LME49710HA on the Headphone buffer section. other remain LME4562NA for now.
  Not sure how that'll work


----------



## Sk1n5

Anywhere I stated Output Stage or Buffer means I tested it in the RCA out and Headphone Out sections.
   
  An update: switched out the LT1208s with OPA627AUs and the result is pretty amazing. It might be due to lack of oscillation or just the right combination. I'm now running AD797B in the I/V and Output stages and OPA627AUs in the LPF stage. It just sounds simply amazing. Looking into getting OPA627BMs to replace the AUs.


----------



## cglin222

I just noticed that my E1, on the headphone buffer section, one is LME49720NA and one is LM4562NA, I thought both are suppose to be 49720???
   
  Must be some mistake by the mamufacture... ?


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





cglin222 said:


> I just noticed that my E1, on the headphone buffer section, one is LME49720NA and one is LM4562NA, I thought both are suppose to be 49720???
> 
> Must be some mistake by the mamufacture... ?


 

  
  Those two chips are identical. The LME49720NA is a rebrand by the company to designate it as an opamp to be used for audio applications.


----------



## cglin222

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Those two chips are identical. The LME49720NA is a rebrand by the company to designate it as an opamp to be used for audio applications.


 


 Ok, cool, thanks for the info.
   
  I updated my I/V section with LME49990, so far I can tell that vocals closer or popped out, and are more straight forward now, and space and sound stage broaden a bit.
  Waiting for my other op-amp AD8620BR for LPF and LME49710HA on headphone buffer in the mail.


----------



## AhhHoNG

Would like to ask some questions before pulling the trigger soon. Can i use opamps frm my essence ST to fit into the essence one? If it fits the essence ST, it fits the One. Am i right to say tis?


----------



## gkl

Anyone using the E1 while gaming? It sounds great when listening to music but in BF3 it's kinda bad. My E-MU 0404 USB sounded better in that game.


----------



## cglin222

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Would like to ask some questions before pulling the trigger soon. Can i use opamps frm my essence ST to fit into the essence one? If it fits the essence ST, it fits the One. Am i right to say tis?


 


 I don't own a ST, but if the op-amp is dip 8 it should work, look at the pictures here
   
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/cat/integrated-circuits-ics/linear-amplifiers-instrumentation-op-amps-buffer-amps/2556125?k=LME49720na


----------



## AhhHoNG

I think they they use the same kind of opamps. i hav a pair of 49720HA on adapter so i am able to transfer over to Essence One rite?


----------



## cglin222

Ya, I believe so, 49720HA is dual channel so it should be fine.
  But pay attention that it is advised that you change the op-amp on E1 by sections, either change all or none.
 I heard some put LME49720HA on the headphone section of E1, which sounded better than the stock 49720NA
  
  Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> I think they they use the same kind of opamps. i hav a pair of 49720HA on adapter so i am able to transfer over to Essence One rite?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cglin222 said:


> I just noticed that my E1, on the headphone buffer section, one is LME49720NA and one is LM4562NA, I thought both are suppose to be 49720???
> 
> Must be some mistake by the mamufacture... ?


 
  They are identical chips.  The LM4562 was the first part number to be used.  That chip won many awards and many people know that part number. 
  National decided to use a different series of numbers, the LME parts numbers but they kept the LM4562NA because of the reasons I mentioned above. 
  That is what I was told by national anyway.  I wouldn't worry about it as the only difference between those two chips is the paint on the label.
   
  Quote: 





cglin222 said:


> Ya, I believe so, 49720HA is dual channel so it should be fine.
> But pay attention that it is advised that you change the op-amp on E1 by sections, either change all or none.
> I heard some put LME49720HA on the headphone section of E1, which sounded better than the stock 49720NA


 
  The TO-99 metal can opamps are the highest quality units of almost any opamp series.
  I used LME49720HA in the buffer section of my head/amp output and there were noticeable gains.
  More so using a pair of LME49710HA on an adapter.  This combination would arguably be the best of the LM/LME series.


----------



## timmeh

Hi Everyone,
   
  I got my E1 last November and have just started to look into opamp rolling. I started by buying 2 of these for the headphone output http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180749622308?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_500wt_1184
   
  The main headphones I listen with are Denon AH-D7000. I also have some shure e500pth and old yamaha hp-1. 
   
  There was an improvement moving to the LME49710HA. Most noticeably additional bass heft (something that isn't necessarily required with the D7000). 
   
  To get the adapters to fit I needed to piggyback 3 DIP8 sockets on top of each other. See the attached picture. 
   

   
  My question is, do you think that there would be a significant negative impact on sound quality from piggy backing the adapters like this?


----------



## derbigpr

I have a simple question: 
   
  I have a Asus Xonar ST right now. Would it be worth upgrading to Essence One if I would only be using headphones with it?  How much better are the DAC and headphone amplifier section on Essence One? Is the difference noticeable?


----------



## cglin222

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I have a simple question:
> 
> I have a Asus Xonar ST right now. Would it be worth upgrading to Essence One if I would only be using headphones with it?  How much better are the DAC and headphone amplifier section on Essence One? Is the difference noticeable?


 

 I don't have ST, but I've read on other review sites, that they said E1 is warmer, and added a little bass. I have HD800 and I think it goes well with it.
  Also, if you do decide to invest and upgrade, you have the options of changing the op-amps on the headphone as well, so that would change your sound.
  One thing to notice that, E1 added * LME49600* --> This seems to be a brand new headphone amplifier buffer. The DIY forums seem to point out that it´s a very good one too. quote from "http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/645"


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> yay, bad news! what about AD797B in the headamp if you could test please?
> 
> I think 1028 and 797 can have a resistor soldered onto one of their pins ino order to become UGS.
> 
> An unstable opamp is not a good thing, as it can output audible artifacts randomly. And oscillation can also shorten the MTBF. It can also make the sound brighter and shrill.


 
  I have received some AD797BR modules yesterday. Started to swap all opamps (except line out buffers) and sound really changed; became more natural, spatious, mids came out so that lows and highs seems lower in volume. Highs sound less metallic. But after some time i checked the chips and found all of them hot to touch. I knew that there must be oscillations inside.
  Today I checked with oscilloscope and found it to be true.

  

  One oscillation was at 43 MHz, the other at 6,1 MHz.
  It is present at every module and every position in E1 with little variation in frequency.
  It is strange that sound is so good despite oscillations, but I took them out.
  Any suggestions from experienced people?


----------



## leeperry

Thanks for sharing the results of your tests!
   
  Did you get the AD797BR's already soldered onto those blue Teradak adapters from Audiojade on ebay?
   
  I could easily suspect that they would be oscillating, but they sound so amazing and I don't get any audio artifacts....so you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I agree that they're hot to the touch, but the top of the ONE was already hot w/ the stock opamps IME due to the voltage regulators and their big heatsinks. Anyway, most of the best opamps require custom designs to be stable, and they also cost too much for DAC manufacturers to use them. If the ONE came w/ 22 pieces of AD797BRZ, it would cost +$2K I guess, the only things we could possibly really care about are 1) audible artifacts 2) DC offset. I don't get any of these two 
   
  I believe there are tricks to make AD797 "unity gain stable", would need to check out their datasheet.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Thanks for sharing the results of your tests!
> 
> Did you get the AD797BR's already soldered onto those blue Teradak adapters from Audiojade on ebay?
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, i got soldered modules from Audiojade.
   
  The top of the ONE becomes pretty hot, but standard opamps are pretty cool to the touch, while oscillating AD797BR`s can not be touched more than 5 seconds.
  
  There are really not audible artifacts, and there is no DC offset except in I/V converter, but that is by design.
   
  When I get the time to play with, I will put modules to proto-board and try some combinations to make them stable.


----------



## leeperry

AD797BR was also VERY hot to the touch in my old Spitfire DAC, used as PCM1793 LPF. Oscillating like hell probably, but still sounding great =)
   
  I've showed your tests results to a friend of mine who's also a major opamp'holic and he said "_AD797 *demands* PSU bypass caps; it is too fast to run stable and give you its best sound without them. Recommend to him to add one 50V 10uF tantalum cap per module and a 50V 100nF C0G (or NP0) ceramic per chip. This provides good bypassing while keeping the modules swappable_."
   
  I thought all those WIMA caps close to the DIP8 sockets were here to avoid oscillation?
  If you could find a way to get AD797 stable in the ONE, we would all be very grateful


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Hello,
   
  I was thinking of getting a essence one soon and I wanted too know what would be good op amps that would give hd800s a good amount of bass but not over done?
   
                                                                       Thanks in advanced,
                                                                                        SONIC BOOM


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> AD797BR was also VERY hot to the touch in my old Spitfire DAC, used as PCM1793 LPF. Oscillating like hell probably, but still sounding great =)
> 
> I've showed your tests results to a friend of mine who's also a major opamp'holic and he said "_AD797 *demands* PSU bypass caps; it is too fast to run stable and give you its best sound without them. Recommend to him to add one 50V 10uF tantalum cap per module and a 50V 100nF C0G (or NP0) ceramic per chip. This provides good bypassing while keeping the modules swappable_."
> 
> ...


 
  It is emhasized in datasheet that needs PSU bypass. Those Wima caps are for that purpose, but maybe too low value or too far from chip on module. At these high MHz frequencies every milimeter matters. There will be no problem to solder bypass caps, but problem will be to make propper ground connection - the ONE could look like Power Plant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## cglin222

Quote: 





sonic boom said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was thinking of getting a essence one soon and I wanted too know what would be good op amps that would give hd800s a good amount of bass but not over done?
> 
> ...


 

  
  The stock op-amp already gave hd800 pretty good bass, but I used LME49990MA in I/V section and plan to use LME49710HA for my headphone buffer which will give further bass (according to someone online and in this thread) and maybe AD8620BR or OPA627AU in the LPF section


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> It is emhasized in datasheet that needs PSU bypass. Those Wima caps are for that purpose, but maybe too low value or too far from chip on module. At these high MHz frequencies every milimeter matters. There will be no problem to solder bypass caps, but problem will be to make propper ground connection - the ONE could look like Power Plant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It'd be awesomtastic if you could find a way to make them stable in the ONE


----------



## SONIC BOOM

Quote: 





cglin222 said:


> The stock op-amp already gave hd800 pretty good bass, but I used LME49990MA in I/V section and plan to use LME49710HA for my headphone buffer which will give further bass (according to someone online and in this thread) and maybe AD8620BR or OPA627AU in the LPF section


 

 thanks =)


----------



## derbigpr

I'm probably getting this DAC very soon, but I wonder one thing. Would using S/PDIF out of a soundcard be a better solution than using USB out of the PC?  I was thinking of getting some cheap card, like Asus Xonar DX,  it can output 24 bit /192khz trough S/PDIF. Would the drop in performance when used trough USB be noticeable, or in other words, is it worth buying another card just to use it as an output. Also, if I had the card as output, I could use all the settings from the drivers, such as dolby, equalizer, etc.?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I'm probably getting this DAC very soon, but I wonder one thing. Would using S/PDIF out of a soundcard be a better solution than using USB out of the PC?  I was thinking of getting some cheap card, like Asus Xonar DX,  it can output 24 bit /192khz trough S/PDIF. Would the drop in performance when used trough USB be noticeable, or in other words, is it worth buying another card just to use it as an output. Also, if I had the card as output, I could use all the settings from the drivers, such as dolby, equalizer, etc.?


 

 USB should not sound any worse than S/PDIF. The Xonar DX does not have Dolby Headphone on the digital output, as far as I know.


----------



## cladisch

derbigpr said:


> Would using S/PDIF out of a soundcard be a better solution than using USB out of the PC?


 

 No, USB is better.
  An S/PDIF receiver must reconstruct the sample clock from the signal, and the signal gets distorted due to the cable's impedance, thus introducing jitter.
  When using asynchronous USB, the receiving device uses its own sample clock.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> USB should not sound any worse than S/PDIF. The Xonar DX does not have Dolby Headphone on the digital output, as far as I know.


 


  What about using ordinary RCA outputs on the DX? Would that be any better than using USB?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> What about using ordinary RCA outputs on the DX? Would that be any better than using USB?


 

 The Xonar DX has 1/8" jack outputs, rather than RCA. It would of course work, but you would use the DAC of the Xonar DX instead of the higher quality one in the Essence One, and the latter would only function as a headphone amplifier, which is somewhat wasteful, even if it does not necessarily sound audibly worse in practice.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





cladisch said:


> No, USB is better.
> An S/PDIF receiver must reconstruct the sample clock from the signal, and the signal gets distorted due to the cable's impedance, thus introducing jitter.
> When using asynchronous USB, the receiving device uses its own sample clock.


 


  Ok, thanks.  I'm kind of skeptical about using a hi-fi device trough USB, but I guess it doesn't matter, since all the important stuff happens inside the DAC regardless of how the signals reached it.


----------



## freemanator

Hi Guys, I have just received my Essence One and plugged it in, installed the drivers and firmware, and then set it as my audio out, but I get silence.
  I then think to set the right input, but none of the input LEDs are on, and I can't get them on by pressing the input buttons.
   
  Any suggestions?
  Thanks


----------



## freemanator

Solved, I tried the firmware update again, and this solved the problem.
  I guess when you have just spent £300, having a brick on your hands is a bit more worrying.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





hellenic vanagon said:


> Ο.k. mr. Robscix, let's forget evrything about measurements!
> (You see, when they are good, evrybody advertises them as something very important, directly connected to sound quality.When they aren't, the second theory of no connection is used.)
> 
> Now we are talking about  sound quality without measurements!
> ...


 


 Having a friend that owns a studio is a great help in avaluating equipment. I have a friend that owns a small but very high end studio which I have had the pleasure of going in & listening to his piano that he owns there. Piano is a great instrument to use for evaluation of equipment as it has lots of harmonics & in his case a very lively sound that can get lost extremely easily with lesser equipment. I Am happy to report that my modded sound system which includes a modded STX does not loose any of that lively sound or body .
   
  I've listened to some high end systems where the speakers alone were 90,000 dollars and while they were very nice sounding they were too laid back. The frequency response was there but the dynamics weren't. The sound was just overly sweet. My friends piano would not sound like itself there but it does here at my place on my system which cost a very small fration of what that system cost.
   
  The main difference is the amount of time spent making sure that as much of the signal could get through as is possable as well as tweaking the sound signature of all componants involved.
   
  I would like to note that I arrived at my desired sound signature before actually hearing my friends studio piano live & to think that I managed to duplicate the sound of it here at home without any further tweaks makes me very satisfied


----------



## LSD25

I just got my own Essence One about 2 weeks ago, and its been played for about 80 hours.
  I'm currently using my Sennheiser 212pro on it, I know, it isn't that great, but that's the only good headphone I have right now or have ever owned.
  I have _never_ tried an open ear headphone before. But I really like listening to classical and ambient music (which from what I hear the open ear headphones perform well in).
   
  So now In a week I'll get to have the HD800 for about 3 months to test this out.
  Having never heard a good $250+ pair headphones before (or any open ear ones), I'm just curious what I'll expect from it.
   
  The 212s sound too boring to me now and I'm really tired of them. They just fatigue my ears and they sound too plasticy and muddy.
  I don't even think the essence one do any good to them, maybe its just that 212s are crappy headphones to begin with lol
   
  and any advice whether I should stick with the stock op amps or put in new ones?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> I just got my own Essence One about 2 weeks ago, and its been played for about 80 hours.
> I'm currently using my Sennheiser 212pro on it, I know, it isn't that great, but that's the only good headphone I have right now or have ever owned.
> I have _never_ tried an open ear headphone before. But I really like listening to classical and ambient music (which from what I hear the open ear headphones perform well in).
> 
> ...


 


  Oh man if you're going from HD212pro straight to HD800, you better be sitting down when you hear the 800's for the first time. 
  I don't have any experience with Essence One, but I guess it would be smarter to keep the stock opamps until you hear how it sounds with 800's.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Wow that's some leap alright... from 212pro to HD 800 haha. HD212 pro aren't either particularly good at its price point either, I got those headphones as well and yea they aren't very good at all, recessed mids, grainy highs and boomy bass response, sounds very artificial and unnatural in their whole presentation. Soundstage not the very best but for form factor quite good concidered, avg closed headphone performance there, positioning quite ok too. I hope you're not faint-hearted! haha


----------



## LSD25

Haha! I am really excited, curious, but at the same time I'm feeling very indifferent (I mean how much better can the music really sound?)
  But I guess have no say in this because I don't really have a reference point or any comparison to anything else right now.
   
  The best I've heard till now was the HD 25s, and that was on an ipod. It sounded good alright, I loved the detailed sound on that.
  212s on the other hand can sound a bit harsh on high notes, and muddy in the lows.
  It really makes me feel like there _should _be more control in presentation of the music.
   
  My ears are kinda too used to its bassy sound
  By now my ears feel the same way as someone that would get sick of eating the same kind of cheeseburgers from McDonalds everyday.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Oh man if you're going from HD212pro straight to HD800, you better be sitting down when you hear the 800's for the first time.
> I don't have any experience with Essence One, but I guess it would be smarter to keep the stock opamps until you hear how it sounds with 800's.


 


  I'll make sure of that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The first song I'll listen to on them would be "An Ending (Ascent) by Brian Eno". Hope I don't go too far into space or somethin


----------



## kiwikaki

does anyone know the output impedance of the e1?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





kiwikaki said:


> does anyone know the output impedance of the e1?


 

 The best way to know is to measure it. It is not very difficult: basically, you measure the output voltage with and without a load, and calculate the output impedance from the voltage drop. I can give tips if anyone wants to try measuring the impedance.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





kiwikaki said:


> does anyone know the output impedance of the e1?


 


  I think I read somewhere that its 4 Ohms...but it was quite a while ago, not sure where exactly I've read it.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> Haha! I am really excited, curious, but at the same time I'm feeling very indifferent (I mean how much better can the music really sound?)


 


  I've had 212pro's for a long time, and they're really fun headphones to listen to and have by far the most bass of all the cans I own, even more than HD650's and HFi2400's. BUT, if I were to listen to music on either of those or Q701's,  and then switch to HD212's, I'd feel like my ear canals are stuffed with some kind of foam, or the headphones are broken.... 
  Usually you don't notice a big difference when going from lesser headphones to better headphones, but you notice a massive drop in quality when going from better to lesser headphones, it's really obvious then. 
   
  One thing you gotta be prepared for, HD800 won't have even NEARLY as much bass impact or presence as the HD212's do, or even as much as the HD25's.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I think I read somewhere that its 4 Ohms...but it was quite a while ago, not sure where exactly I've read it.


 

 Well, if true, that is better than the 10 Ohms of then ST/STX (not to mention the 100 Ohms of the lower Xonar cards), although for the price it could be better. Maybe they added the resistors to prevent stability issues, especially since the op-amps that drive the LME49600s are swappable.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I've had 212pro's for a long time, and they're really fun headphones to listen to and have by far the most bass of all the cans I own, even more than HD650's and HFi2400's. BUT, if I were to listen to music on either of those or Q701's,  and then switch to HD212's, I'd feel like my ear canals are stuffed with some kind of foam, or the headphones are broken....
> Usually you don't notice a big difference when going from lesser headphones to better headphones, but you notice a massive drop in quality when going from better to lesser headphones, it's really obvious then.
> 
> One thing you gotta be prepared for, HD800 won't have even NEARLY as much bass impact or presence as the HD212's do, or even as much as the HD25's.


 

 They are fun, I've had them for about 4 - 5 years by now lol they just lost their charm for me.
  Though the Essence One did help it a lot, they sound more lively and detailed now.
  But, how would you compare the quality of bass going from 212pro to HD650? Considering the impact of bass in 212s is probably greater because they're closed.
  and I'm a complete newbie on the whole frequency response charts, but from what I see,
  http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=853&graphID[]=503&graphID[]=513
  the 650s and HD25s have higher bass response? Whereas 212pro don't do well in the really low frequencies? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  but since the 212s have a steep inclination, the bass probably sounds less detailed but punchier (being closed headphone makes it punchy too). I'm just making wild guess here lol
  because when it comes to the slow deep bass sounds that go deeper and deeper, the 212s _really _struggle to keep up


----------



## Funky-kun

From my experience you can't really get much information on the bass of closed cans from charts. In every single case, trying the headphone myself revealed they have much more bass response than a graph reveals, probably due to resonances and/or seal. Open headphone bass response generally correlates to graph data.
   
  212 have a boomy bass response. They reach relatively low, but 650 reach lower, and you can clearly _feel_ the difference. The fact that 650s have less midbass compared to 212 makes their subbass more prominent, and it also is a lot more revealing - for one, you can distinguish between bass notes now. 212 have more impact on the bass, but it is created through resonances within the earcup (from what I hear) and you just get hit by a wash of bass whenever something goes low. 650 are generally less impactful, but don't overrepresent the bass when it is not callde for. This makes notes that go really low clearly different from the rest, and these bass dynamics are a clear difference between these cans. In any case, bass is just scratching the surface when comparing them.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





funky-kun said:


> From my experience you can't really get much information on the bass of closed cans from charts. In every single case, trying the headphone myself revealed they have much more bass response than a graph reveals, probably due to resonances and/or seal. Open headphone bass response generally correlates to graph data.
> 
> 212 have a boomy bass response. They reach relatively low, but 650 reach lower, and you can clearly _feel_ the difference. The fact that 650s have less midbass compared to 212 makes their subbass more prominent, and it also is a lot more revealing - for one, you can distinguish between bass notes now. 212 have more impact on the bass, but it is created through resonances within the earcup (from what I hear) and you just get hit by a wash of bass whenever something goes low. 650 are generally less impactful, but don't overrepresent the bass when it is not callde for. This makes notes that go really low clearly different from the rest, and these bass dynamics are a clear difference between these cans. In any case, bass is just scratching the surface when comparing them.


 


  Oh wow! thanks for explaining that really well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  So I guess the frequency response graphs are very relative
  Kind of like in painting (not sure if good analogy)
  but its like when you put one color of paint, and put a second color around it - the second color determines whether the first color is warm or cool
  and the whole presentation and the visual experience is determined by the balance of colors throughout the image
  If one part grabs too much attention, it changes the meaning of the whole image, whereas if it is more balanced and subtle throughout, the image becomes much more pleasing - of course depending on the personal taste


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> They are fun, I've had them for about 4 - 5 years by now lol they just lost their charm for me.
> Though the Essence One did help it a lot, they sound more lively and detailed now.
> But, how would you compare the quality of bass going from 212pro to HD650? Considering the impact of bass in 212s is probably greater because they're closed.
> and I'm a complete newbie on the whole frequency response charts, but from what I see,
> ...


 
   
  I'd say 212's have about 50% more bass than HD650. In general, 212's even have more sub bass, but relative to mid bass, HD650's have more sub bass. So in 212's it seems like the bass rolls off more. But if you put a lets say 40hz loop track on both headphones, set to volume levels you know are identical when listening to music, you will find 212's have more sub bass.
  HD650's bass is more balanced, controlled and textured. Its a far better quality bass definitely. But, of all the cans I've heard, 212's have by far the most bass impact and rumble, and it's not a very loose bass either. I mean, it is boomy, but the headphone construction is very solid (which you can see if you put them on and tap the headphone enclosures with your knuckles, you'll hear a really solid sound).  Most boominess (if that's even a word ) comes from the driver, not the bad driver enclosure, so the bass actually sounds pretty good, and there's no rattles from the driver enclosures. Its a perfect headphone for music with artificial bass, but it's not for reproducing natural sources of bass, such as bass guitar, double bass, or even organs, because then there's simply not enough texture and detail, and its too boomy to sound realistic.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I'd say 212's have about 50% more bass than HD650. In general, 212's even have more sub bass, but relative to mid bass, HD650's have more sub bass. So in 212's it seems like the bass rolls off more. But if you put a lets say 40hz loop track on both headphones, set to volume levels you know are identical when listening to music, you will find 212's have more sub bass.
> HD650's bass is more balanced, controlled and textured. Its a far better quality bass definitely. But, of all the cans I've heard, 212's have by far the most bass impact and rumble, and it's not a very loose bass either. I mean, it is boomy, but the headphone construction is very solid (which you can see if you put them on and tap the headphone enclosures with your knuckles, you'll hear a really solid sound).  Most boominess (if that's even a word ) comes from the driver, not the bad driver enclosure, so the bass actually sounds pretty good, and there's no rattles from the driver enclosures. Its a perfect headphone for music with artificial bass, but it's not for reproducing natural sources of bass, such as bass guitar, double bass, or even organs, because then there's simply not enough texture and detail, and its too boomy to sound realistic.


 
  Well, that's good that its more textured and controlled, I can't seem to fully enjoy classical or ambient music on 212s, it does sound like foam stuck in my ear already, in comparison to the more cleaner sound I got from hd25s
   
  Though boominess in electronica music might be one thing that I'll be missing in HD800s i guess.. dunno.. we'll see when I hear them
  I guess I could probably get some better closed ear headphones just for the bass driven music.
   
  Till then i could just have the HD800s plugged in the the headphone jack of essence one, and have the subwoofer playing at the same time to just feel the vibration lol
  Though that's one thing I love about E1, having both, speaker system and headphone working at the same time, and being able to control their sound levels separately.


----------



## marc0vca

Hi guys! Does e1 work with mac os x lion?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> Well, that's good that its more textured and controlled, I can't seem to fully enjoy classical or ambient music on 212s, it does sound like foam stuck in my ear already, in comparison to the more cleaner sound I got from hd25s
> 
> Though boominess in electronica music might be one thing that I'll be missing in HD800s i guess.. dunno.. we'll see when I hear them
> I guess I could probably get some better closed ear headphones just for the bass driven music.
> ...


 
   
  Yea that is awesome, especially if you have some near field monitors. You can create a nice sound stage with them and give some weight to the sound, and still get all the detail and resolution from the HD800's.  That's what I do sometimes with my home cinema system. I plug in my Q701's trough the 6 meter long cord, then sit back, and use both the surround sound (at low volume) and headphone sound. Might sound crazy, but it works better than just using one of the systems.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





marcovca said:


> Hi guys! Does e1 work with mac os x lion?


 
   

 It does, If you have a macbook pro, you can use the optical cable, and it works with the USB as well, no drivers needed.
  If you go to System Preferences > Sound > Output, you can select SPDIF Output  USB from the list, instead of Internal speakers/built-in


----------



## marc0vca

I have iMac. Does it has optical output? Can i plug e1 by optical cable to imac?


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





marcovca said:


> I have iMac. Does it has optical output? Can i plug e1 by optical cable to imac?


 
   
  Most likely, the optical output is the same port in which you plug in your headphones.
  You just need a mini toslink adapter on one end of your cable, it goes inside the headphone jack of your iMac


----------



## derbigpr

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> USB should not sound any worse than S/PDIF. The Xonar DX does not have Dolby Headphone on the digital output, as far as I know.


 
   
  I tested the Xonar DX with the Essence One through S/Pdif and it works fine with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## derbigpr

Can someone compare only the headphone amp section of Essence One to any standalone amp? I have no clue in which league the amp on E1 is...does it compare to 200$ standalone amps or something a bit better? 
   
  I'm in big dilemma now, as I can get a slightly used Musical Fidelity M1DAC in mint condition for half the price of a E1...I assume as far as DAC goes, M1 should beat the E1, but what I don't know is whether I can buy an amp for the rest of the money (250-300 dollars) that will be as good as the amp in E1.


----------



## Mad Max

You could always lend me your One to compare to my M-Stage.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





mad max said:


> You could always lend me your One to compare to my M-Stage.


 
   
   
   
  Fck it, I ordered my Musical Fidelity M1DAC now. I guess a 800$ DAC must sound better than a 500$ dac+amp+preamp, especially when you get the 800$ DAC for 300$. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I reckon, an opportunity to get a world class DAC for 300$ won't come that fast again, and Asus E1 can be bought whenever I want.


----------



## leeperry

Well, if the ONE was sold by an audiophile company, it'd cost 3X the price for sure.
   
  This M1DAC looks like nothing to write home to Mummy about: http://www.ippinkan.com/musical_fidelity/m1_series/m1dac_musical_fidelity_inner.jpg
   
  dead simple output stage(prolly based on two 5532's as I/V and you can't swap them), poor PSU section...it looks like 20yo technology.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, if the ONE was sold by an audiophile company, it'd cost 3X the price for sure.
> 
> This M1DAC looks like nothing to write home to Mummy about: http://www.ippinkan.com/musical_fidelity/m1_series/m1dac_musical_fidelity_inner.jpg
> 
> dead simple output stage(prolly based on two 5532's as I/V and you can't swap them), poor PSU section...it looks like 20yo technology.


 
   
   
  Yea it does look simple, but it sounds outstanding, I've heard it briefly on a speaker setup once, and compared to CA Dac magic, the difference was pretty obvious, M1 is a significant step up. As for poor PSU,  its actually one of the best things about it according to reviews. It's got a choke-regulated power supply as well, which is very rate for DAC in this price range.
   
  I don't know how Essence One sounds, but M1DAC is apparently a bargain for 800$. Now, I haven't heard any other DAC apart from M1 and CA Dac Magic, so I can't tell how good its value really is.
  Also, I don't think I've read a simple negative review about it, every review swears its one of the best DAC's they've heard and great value.I know this is marketing, but Musical Fidelity claims its performance is close to their top of the line DAC that costs 10 times more.
   
  People on head-fi who bought it love it. I certainly would not buy a new one, as its way over my budget, but I got mine for half the price of the Essence One, and it's in mint condition, at least according to pictures.
   
  The thing is, I wonder whether I can get a headphone amp for 300$ that will be as good as the one in Essence One.


----------



## minnus

Any consensus on whether or not this is a good bang for the buck?


----------



## Mad Max

I thought that was already established earlier in the thread?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





minnus said:


> Any consensus on whether or not this is a *good bang for the buck*


 
   
   
   
  It's Asus. No need to say anything else.


----------



## our martin

Arcam do dacs aswell as cambridge audio heres the link..http://www.arcam.co.uk/


----------



## AhhHoNG

Hello may i noe do i swap only the 2 "Number 8" opamps  , single Number 6, and two number 5s if i were to use XLR out only? Urgently looking for confirmation. Thanks guys


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Hello may i noe do i swap only the 2 "Number 8" opamps  , single Number 6, and two number 5s if i were to use XLR out only? Urgently looking for confirmation. Thanks guys


 
   

 You can swap lower two Nr 8 for XLR, but both Nr 6 and all four Nr 5. - not all numbers at the same time - try for yourselves.


----------



## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> You can swap lower two Nr 8 for XLR, but both Nr 6 and all four Nr 5. - not all numbers at the same time - try for yourselves.


 
   
   
  yes i was talking about the lower number 6. I am only using the XLR output so is it still necessary for me swap the upper row of single 8, double 7, single 6 and double 5? What do you mean by not all numbers at the same time? Thanks!


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> yes i was talking about the lower number 6. I am only using the XLR output so is it still necessary for me swap the upper row of single 8, double 7, single 6 and double 5? What do you mean by not all numbers at the same time? Thanks!


 
   

 It is advisable to swap one section at a time to hear what it brings to sound. Upper Nr 8 is for RCA output, lower two for XLR. One section is also both Nr 6 and all four Nr 5's. Nr 7 is probably lapsus calami. (it is ok to swap only two Nr 8's for XLR as you use it)


----------



## gkl

I have one silly question but my curiosity regarding this is bugging me.  If you guys could shed some insight into this, I'd really appreciate it. Can static electricity zaps to the outside of the case of E1 cause some (any) sort of damage to its components? I understand static electricity can be fatal to E1's components when applied directly but not sure when it comes to its metal case. Where does the electricity go? I sure my high school physics teacher wouldn't be happy that I'm asking this...
   
  I know, not a really appropriate question in a HP forum, but this has been bugging me a bit.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gkl said:


> I have one silly question but my curiosity regarding this is bugging me.  If you guys could shed some insight into this, I'd really appreciate it. Can static electricity zaps to the outside of the case of E1 cause some (any) sort of damage to its components? I understand static electricity can be fatal to E1's components when applied directly but not sure when it comes to its metal case. Where does the electricity go? I sure my high school physics teacher wouldn't be happy that I'm asking this...
> 
> I know, not a really appropriate question in a HP forum, but this has been bugging me a bit.


 
   

 No the case/system would be grounded.
  The circuits themselves can be damaged as they run on very small amounts of voltage and static is a very high voltage in comparison.


----------



## AhhHoNG

Need serious help here. I tried to update the firmware and it says "PASS" so i restart the One and it no longer works. No matter wad button u press, you cant choose the inputs or upsampling. In short, there are no lights at all except for the power button. I cant hold the upsampling and mute button together and go to the 3 red lights settings to update the firmware again. Do i really need to send my one back to exchange? Thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

It may be some of your media or are you adding any type of effects?


----------



## Mad Max

Clipping can happen if you are messing with other programs while using a computer transport.  Also, clipping can occur if the playback buffer is set too low in Foobar.


----------



## Brownbay

I had one quick and general question about the ONE:

 Can the Essense ONE be used a as stand alone DAC that is fed to a power amp?


----------



## Optimus Praim

Hey guys i don't know if it was answered before and i skipped it but can i hook up my monitor speakers via XLR and adjust the volume from the knob?
  My setup would be like this:
  Pc (via optical or usb) --------->Asus one (XLR) ------>Speakers
  Can i use it as a DAC but with no need of an extra pre amp to control the volume?


----------



## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Need serious help here. I tried to update the firmware and it says "PASS" so i restart the One and it no longer works. No matter wad button u press, you cant choose the inputs or upsampling. In short, there are no lights at all except for the power button. I cant hold the upsampling and mute button together and go to the 3 red lights settings to update the firmware again. Do i really need to send my one back to exchange? Thanks.


 
   
  Attention to new users of E1, your E1 could be the new batch tat comes with the latest USB and firmware updates. Do not try to update the firmware as it will kill your DAC. Do check ur version if its the latest one b4 doing so.


----------



## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





optimus praim said:


> Hey guys i don't know if it was answered before and i skipped it but can i hook up my monitor speakers via XLR and adjust the volume from the knob?
> My setup would be like this:
> Pc (via optical or usb) --------->Asus one (XLR) ------>Speakers
> Can i use it as a DAC but with no need of an extra pre amp to control the volume?


 
   
  Yes i am using E1 -> XLR -> Focal Cms 40 and E1 -> RCA -> subwoofer at the same time


----------



## Optimus Praim

Thanks man,nice speakers you have there...
  I maybe one day get their Cms 65..
  How do you find E1 with your Focal's?


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





robscix said:


> No the case/system would be grounded.
> The circuits themselves can be damaged as they run on very small amounts of voltage and static is a very high voltage in comparison.


 
  Thanks for the info!


----------



## AhhHoNG

Quote: 





optimus praim said:


> Thanks man,nice speakers you have there...
> I maybe one day get their Cms 65..
> How do you find E1 with your Focal's?


 
   
  jizz in my pants everytime i hav a chance to turn up the volume alittle and enjoy my music


----------



## vrln

This is a completely shameless plug: I just put up an E1 *for trade* *only* (primarily for various headphones) in the FS forums: http://www.head-fi.org/t/609697/ft-asus-essence-one-dac-pre-hp-amp-eu


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> It is emhasized in datasheet that needs PSU bypass. Those Wima caps are for that purpose, but maybe too low value or too far from chip on module. At these high MHz frequencies every milimeter matters. There will be no problem to solder bypass caps, but problem will be to make propper ground connection - the ONE could look like Power Plant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I had some time to investigate oscillations from AD 797 BR swapped opamps. I made PSU bypass on some browndog adapters soldered directly at chip pins and tried them at every position in E1.
  The only position without oscillation was at number 2 - low pass filter - with or without PSU decoupling. At other positions oscillations were largely dependent on potentiometer setting.
  Conclusion is that oscillations came from internal design that is inappropriate for such opamp.
  Observation : AD 797 at low pass filter position gives more natural high frequency tones, but bass tones are more voluminous and not so defined. Space is wider, with more "out of phase" effect.
  I prefer original opamps as sound is more precise and rhytmic and reflects what is on the record. It shows that Asus engineers knew well what they want by selecting the right opamps.
  It will not stop me to try other opamps - first from recommended swap guide.


----------



## leeperry

Yay, just as I suspected, thanks for the update! Well, TI make it clear that blind rolling is bound to fail: http://e2e.ti.com/support/amplifiers/precision_amplifiers/w/design_notes/upgrading-op-amps-in-audio-equipment.aspx
   
  You can't just slap AD797 and LT1028 anywhere and hope that a design meant for 5532 and 49720 will get them stable. It won't.
   
  So, if you're in the market for a non-cranky "unity gain stable" opamp that comes already soldered onto PNP adapters for a low price, I guess our only option is the OPA627AU modules from Audiojade? I know some high-end DAC's that run OPA627AP and they sound mighty good. The last issue is that cheap 627's from mainland China will most likely be fake.
   
  Anyway, every serious roller should own an oscilloscope...I wonder if there's any of those USB cheapies that could do the trick.


----------



## Sk1n5

ccarl,
  If you're running in USB mode with ASIO the problem is most likely another device connected to the same USB controller. The only time I've been able to create the problem is when I transferred files to a USB drive while playing music. I think normal peripherals are fine, but anything that will hog bandwidth will cause the issue. Hope this helps.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> ..........  It will not stop me to try other opamps - first from recommended swap guide.


 
  New opamps came so this is my setup after making some swaps:
  1. I/V section - AD 797 BR on adapers
  2. Low Pass Filter LME49860
  3. XLR, RCA output LME 49860
  4. Headphone buffer LME 49860
   
  AD797´s do not oscillate in this setup. Tried OPA 627 AU on adapters, sound similar to AD797 but with little less detail in highs and less sounstage.
  LME 49860 gives more details in mids and highs, less but tighter bottom than default. AD 797 gives wider soundstage and more voluminous bottom.
  The whole combination sounds more vivid, spatious and natural comparing to default.
  All tunings  were made primary via headphones as it is 90% of my listening, but when E1 was connected to my active loudspeakers via XLR balanced cable (3 way 150+80+80 wrms , 27 cm woofer per box), it was a pleasant surprise - a new life; sound that costs much more than spent. The only thing I could improve now is to buy a new headphones and build well engineered dedicated audio room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  It is easier now to forget all that electrons, copper and silicone and enjoy the pure music.
  P.S. If AD 797 would oscillate, OPA 627 would be a good replacement. Maybe there could be better combinations, but one can not try all the available opamps.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I must know.  Has anyone compared the Asus Essence One to any Apogee gear like the Duet or MiniDAC?


----------



## DraconiaN

Without reading this all 'til end - LME49710HA TO-99 should be better than the (99.9% same) LME49720HA OpAmp? Okay, but what about the LME49990?! ppl say that sounds outstanding compared to the TO-99 720HA....i just want the best OpAmp possible in my Essence STX...currently on -720HA TO-99's and it sounds great with HD650 Cans...


----------



## DrakAyla

Hi, I wonder if the Essence one works with macbook?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





drakayla said:


> Hi, I wonder if the Essence one works with macbook?


 
   
   
  Probably does, but why would one buy the Essence One if you can get the Apogee Duet? 
  I heard that little thing in combination with Fidelia player...and it made me seriously consider buying a macbook just as a source of music.


----------



## DrakAyla

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Probably does, but why would one buy the Essence One if you can get the Apogee Duet?
> I heard that little thing in combination with Fidelia player...and it made me seriously consider buying a macbook just as a source of music.


 

 Hi, thank you for the reply.
   
  When I checked Asus web they says that the Essence is compatible with PC/Windows. They didn't mention MAC!!!!
   
  Regarding Apogee Duet, I don't think (almost sure) it will be able to drive big cans.


----------



## Dionysus

Would this be an upgrade to a Essenes STX pcie card on my current comp. I mean other than the portable aspects and source selections, thanks in advance.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





dionysus said:


> Would this be an upgrade to a Essenes STX pcie card on my current comp. I mean other than the portable aspects and source selections, thanks in advance.


 
   
   
  Depends. Headphone amp on E1 is better, and it can power speakers too. In terms of a DAC, I don't think there's a difference. DAC in STX is already as good as it gets regardless of price.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The beginning of a track I click on is skipped by a few ms, it's annoying. What are the right settings for Foobar2000 and the Asus E1 ASIO panel?


----------



## derbigpr

Do you guys think Essence One would have enough power in the amp to run DT880's 600 Ohm properly?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Do you guys think Essence One would have enough power in the amp to run DT880's 600 Ohm properly?


 
   
  According to the specifications, it can output a maximum of 7 Vrms. That is about the same as the Xonar ST/STX, the FiiO E9, and the O2, and is enough in theory.


----------



## Dionysus

Ordering Essence One today......hope to have a great experience with my HD700.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





dionysus said:


> Ordering Essence One today......hope to have a great experience with my HD700.


 
   
   
   
  Give impressions when it arrives please. I'm still waiting to pull a trigger on it for DT880's 600. Not sure whether it will have enough power. I read in a review where it was tested with LCD2's and HD800's that it clipped at higher volume levels.  Would those two be harder to run than 880's?


----------



## Dionysus

Arriving Friday I'll try and chime in over the weekend.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





dionysus said:


> Arriving Friday I'll try and chime in over the weekend.


 
   
  Ah too bad. I was hoping you'd get it earlier.   I have two more days to decide, and then I'll have to buy it, so by friday I'll have it too.  Meh...I guess DT880 600's should be powered sufficiently from it. I just don't get it why there aren't specs released about how much power the E1 amp gives out at certain impedance loads...


----------



## lup31337

Can anyone tell me how is the amp section ? I want to buy a DAC and I already have a little dot mk V , So should I sell the LD our should I keep it and uses the asus just as a DAC ?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





lup31337 said:


> Can anyone tell me how is the amp section ? I want to buy a DAC and I already have a little dot mk V , So should I sell the LD our should I keep it and uses the asus just as a DAC ?


 
   
   
  Well I can tell you that the amp section in Teac UD-H01 which I tried is better than my Mk5 in terms of sound quality, but with slightly less gain (still more than enough to make DT880 600 ohm very very loud).   And Essence One apparently has a better amp than UD-H01.


----------



## derbigpr

It has arrived!
  Man its heavy, both in terms of weight of the unit and bass reproduction.  However its for now very unimpressive in terms of sound quality and basically everything apart from the build quality. Running it with Foobar and Asio trough bit-perfect mode, and I'd say its not as good as the ST, not even the head amp has more power than the ST, my DT880's get louder out the ST. The sound clarity is just not there. Everything sounds small, congested and muddy. Might be because its still new, but apart from the great build quality, I'd not pay more than 100$ for this thing. Good thing I can return within 8 days. Tomorrow I'll go to the store and compare it with Teac UD-H01, but as far as I remember, it sounded much better than Asus. It left me stunned by how good the DT880's sound, while with Asus they literally sound like...well, crap.  Honestly, DT880's plugged into 8 year old Philips FW-M567 mini stereo system sound as good if not better, and go just as loud without distortion, I'm not joking. At the moment I am HUGELY disappointed by this thing.
   
  Just to add, I'm the most disappointed by the head amp section. Obviously "made for 600 Ohm headphone" is just a marketing gimmick.  It can't even run the 600 Ohm Beyers to comfortably loud level, let alone very loud.  Over 12 o'clock there's no increase in volume either.  Difference between the knob being at 12 o'clock and all the way to the end is like 4-5 decibels, virtually no increase in loudness.
   
  I've had it on maxed out volumes everywhere on PC, and on the knob in the front for the last 30 minutes, and still haven't played a single song that had me wanting for more loudness.


----------



## derbigpr

God this thing is overpriced. Honestly, as a DAC alone, ST is better, it just sounds cleaner and...more solid, and true to what is on the recording. E1 only seems to have more bass....everything else is better on STX, bigger soundstage, cleaner sound, more details, etc. So, as DAC, it fails.  As a headphone amp, it actually has less juice than the ST as well, can't run my DT880's 600 as loud, in fact, as you see it on the picture, its on the full volume, and its actually not even what I'd consider normal listening volume on most music. Not loud in any sense of the word, and too silent on some recordings.
   
  So whats the point of marketing it for 600 ohm headphones if it clearly hasn't got the power for them? I mean, come on Asus, I expected more from you guys.
  Who makes 600 ohm headphones? Only Beyerdynamic to my knowledge. So how can they say that it can run 600 Ohm headphones? Has anyone in Asus tried the E1 with 600 ohm headphones? I highly doubt, because if I was an engineer there, and I heard how weak the headphone output is with them, I'd say something is wrong and it needs more work.
   
  I know I'm saying this with less than 3 hours of listening, but this thing costs almost 3 times more than ST, and is inferior in every way apart from having XLR outputs. I can tell that clearly. Packing it up, returning tomorrow.


----------



## derbigpr

Is it normal that the unit gets pretty hot after some time?


----------



## Dionysus

Something is very wrong, I received mine from newegg Friday and I love it, While the STX is a nice sound card it is truly no match. I have owned the STX for 4 or so years and it is no contest when compared to the E1. 
Iam matching mine with a pair of Senn HD700 and it sound incredible, in fact it has warmed the SS exactly the way i hoped it would.

The STX doesn't have the level of separation and detail and i also find that it is noisy vs the one, but it maybe my ears so far I have played it through an Integra DPS 7.2 transport and ITunes thru lossless files, and again both sound terrific.


Also I have left the one burn in for 2 days straight without a listen and it never got hot. Something is wrong with your unit if its getting hot or something in the chain is not right.
Sorry to hear your not liking it but VS the STX sound card to me it really is no contest. I will try and post pics soon.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





dionysus said:


> Something is very wrong, I received mine from newegg Friday and I love it, While the STX is a nice sound card it is truly no match. I have owned the STX for 4 or so years and it is no contest when compared to the E1.
> Iam matching mine with a pair of Senn HD700 and it sound incredible, in fact it has warmed the SS exactly the way i hoped it would.
> The STX doesn't have the level of separation and detail and i also find that it is noisy vs the one, but it maybe my ears so far I have played it through an Integra DPS 7.2 transport and ITunes thru lossless files, and again both sound terrific.
> Also I have left the one burn in for 2 days straight without a listen and it never got hot. Something is wrong with your unit if its getting hot or something in the chain is not right.
> Sorry to hear your not liking it but VS the STX sound card to me it really is no contest. I will try and post pics soon.


 
   
   
   
  Yea but the thing is HD700 is very easy to drive, while DT880's are extremely hard to drive.  There's just no juice in the amp to make the headphones sound nice.


----------



## endeeinn

I got mind a couple of weeks ago and it was fantastic right out of the box.  Updated the firmware, driver, and USB and added the asio driver and it is better than fantastic.  Will try some opamp rolls but almost afraid to mess with it.  Just saw Asus is coming out with a new version and the only thing new is that it comes with a couple of upgraded opamps to roll along with the stock opamps.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> I got mind a couple of weeks ago and it was fantastic right out of the box.  Updated the firmware, driver, and USB and added the asio driver and it is better than fantastic.  Will try some opamp rolls but almost afraid to mess with it.  Just saw Asus is coming out with a new version and the only thing new is that it comes with a couple of upgraded opamps to roll along with the stock opamps.


 

 The issue is lack of power. I'm sure it would sound better with some easier to run headphones of same caliber, currently I only have my DT880's with me.  But with DT880's it has so little power that it cannot sound good or be even adequately loud. It's totally underpowered. Honestly I'd be surprised if it can output 40 mW into a 600 Ohm load, while DT880's need 100 mW.
   
  So, for anyone with 600 Ohm headphones, this is useless as an amp, despite it saying it can run 600 Ohm headphones.  Yea, it can, the same way an Iphone can run HD800's.


----------



## DarKu

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> The issue is lack of power. I'm sure it would sound better with some easier to run headphones of same caliber, currently I only have my DT880's with me.  But with DT880's it has so little power that it cannot sound good or be even adequately loud. It's totally underpowered. Honestly I'd be surprised if it can output 40 mW into a 600 Ohm load, while DT880's need 100 mW.
> 
> So, for anyone with 600 Ohm headphones, this is useless as an amp, despite it saying it can run 600 Ohm headphones.  Yea, it can, the same way an Iphone can run HD800's.


 
  You unit is faulty, Xonar One is more powerfull than ST or STX, install newest drivers, update the firmware, there is something wrong with your unit. My findings are exactly opposite, Xonar One is MILES better than ST or STX, I don't even own one, but reviewed it some time ago and I was pretty impressed.
  LE: I' ve listened to Xonar One with LCD-2, HD800 and T1


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





darku said:


> You unit is faulty, Xonar One is more powerfull than ST or STX, install newest drivers, update the firmware, there is something wrong with your unit. My findings are exactly opposite, Xonar One is MILES better than ST or STX, I don't even own one, but reviewed it some time ago and I was pretty impressed.
> LE: I' ve listened to Xonar One with LCD-2, HD800 and T1


 
   
  It is (was) definitely not faulty. Today it was tested by the service guy at the store with some cheaper headphones, and it worked perfectly fine. It just doesn't work with 600 Ohm headphones well, at least the DT880's. Just not enough power to get them to a decent volume, and not enough authority when powering them.
   
  Anyway, after trying out many devices today head to head (spent over 2 hours in the store because I wanted absolute best I could find), including the Essence One, Teac UD-H01 and CA Dac Magic Plus, as well as many stereo receivers and integrated amps,  I replaced the E1 for a Onkyo A-5VL integrated speaker amplifier/dac with dual 24/192 burr brown DAC's inside, one for each channel.  Its a beautiful looking unit that makes the other three devices look and feel like cheap toys,  and it weighs 23 pounds. It cost me 400$ on discount, so a bit less than Teac at 500$, and a lot less than CA and E1 which are both ~750$. 
   
  Why did I pick it? Honestly? It blew all of them away in terms of value for money and listening experience.  It just sounds more open, smooth, more solid and more powerful. The power of the headphone output is in a completely different league compared to any of these dedicated solutions, when its at 40% of volume, its louder than any of the other three on max volume, and still sounds nicer, with no distortion at all. Plenty of headroom with DT880's. DAC chips inside are one of the top of the line from Burr Brown, but I'm not sure which exactly, and frankly I don't care. They might not be the most high end DAC chips inside, but it doesn't matter, as a package, Onkyo still sounds better than those more expensive dedicated DAC/headamps.   This device just rendered any soundcard, any headphone amp and any DAC I ever owned or currently own, useless. It does so much, so well, for so little money.  It even ran Kef Q900 floorstanders pretty well, although its more suited for bookshelfs obviously. 
   
  However, its the headphone output that is great. I was told by the "tech guy" in the store that because its a completely digital and unique design, the output impedance on the phone jack is not the classic 120-250 Ohms as found on other speaker amps and receivers, but its in fact very low. Not as low as most dedicated head amps, but its still much lower than usual integrated amps, and low enough to have more than enough damping factor with 250-600 Ohm headphones.    Also, the good thing is,  there are treble and bass knobs, which work extremely well with headphone output (again, unlike any other integrated amp), and they're perfect for DT880's, as I can dial down the treble (10khz) a bit, and push up the bass (100 hz) a bit and get that perfect sound. Get rid of sibilance and 10k spike on DT880's and add a bit more bass punch. All of that is done in a very good fashion, without nasty distortions or ruining the sound.   With bass / treble knobs in normal position, amps is very neutral, with great detail and great extension in both directions.
   
  But, the bad side of this unique design is that speaker outputs are a bit less powerful and "dynamic" sounding that other "pure" amps at that price range, but who cares right, it still has enough power for bookshelf speakers (2x 40w @ 8ohms), its a great DAC, a great headphone amp, and can be a pre-amp as well.  It also comes with a remote (which is a huge plus for me),  has amazing built quality (each knob and button feels great to use, gives the sense of solidity and quality).  Honestly, E1, Dacmagic and UD-H01 were silly next to it, I thought to myself:  "I'd have to be completely mad to buy any of them instead of the Onkyo".  This thing is the new benchmark of value for money for me.


----------



## willr666

I am thinking of upgrading the opamp for the RCA jacks as I am running the E1 into a dedicated headphone amp.  I haven't been able to find much on reccoed upgrades for this path.
   
  Can anyone make a suggestion, I like the OPA2111 for the headphone out but that's not the config I am running.
   
  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
   
  Thanks
  Will


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Is it normal that the unit gets pretty hot after some time?


 

 I noticed that it may become pretty hot when using USB input. Using coax or optical input temperature is much lower.
  Obviously USB processor produces more heat.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> It has arrived!
> Man its heavy, both in terms of weight of the unit and bass reproduction.  However its for now very unimpressive in terms of sound quality and basically everything apart from the build quality. Running it with Foobar and Asio trough bit-perfect mode, and I'd say its not as good as the ST, not even the head amp has more power than the ST, my DT880's get louder out the ST. The sound clarity is just not there. Everything sounds small, congested and muddy. Might be because its still new, but apart from the great build quality, I'd not pay more than 100$ for this thing. Good thing I can return within 8 days. Tomorrow I'll go to the store and compare it with Teac UD-H01, but as far as I remember, it sounded much better than Asus. It left me stunned by how good the DT880's sound, while with Asus they literally sound like...well, crap.  Honestly, DT880's plugged into 8 year old Philips FW-M567 mini stereo system sound as good if not better, and go just as loud without distortion, I'm not joking. At the moment I am HUGELY disappointed by this thing.
> 
> Just to add, I'm the most disappointed by the head amp section. Obviously "made for 600 Ohm headphone" is just a marketing gimmick.  It can't even run the 600 Ohm Beyers to comfortably loud level, let alone very loud.  Over 12 o'clock there's no increase in volume either.  Difference between the knob being at 12 o'clock and all the way to the end is like 4-5 decibels, virtually no increase in loudness.
> ...


 

 I am using DT 770 pro 250 ohm and normal listening is at 9 o'clock. With old DT 880 Studio 600 ohm (the same sensitivity as yours) about the same listening level is at 12 o'clock.
  I like to listen pretty loud, and there is no lack of power at 600 ohms.


----------



## dzonylan

Hi,
   
  what do you think of pairing a E1 with Lovely Cube? Or maybe someone already have such pair?
  I listen E1 with my D2000, and I think that the music could sound better.


----------



## Balario

Good morning people,
 I bought one of these and try to update the device no longer works.
 The LEDs are lit and I can not use the front buttons to restart the upgrade process again.
 Does anyone know how to do a reset on the device without using the front buttons "AND MUTE upsampling"?
 I also can not detect the USB device to update.
 My Windows 7 Pro x64, detects the device and the ASIO driver appears just right but you can not make atuaização.
 Please help me.
 Thank you.


----------



## audiohead760

im stuck, so how do i install it? ive been trying for what feels like hours. pls reply back


----------



## Dionysus

Install what? Drivers I mean it's hard to know what you mean?


----------



## vagii

4 dual LME49990 on I/V are so freaking hot, even hotter than LT1358 on LPF, and because of the adapter, i can't use any heatstink.
  Sound amazing though.


----------



## vagii

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> It has arrived!
> Man its heavy, both in terms of weight of the unit and bass reproduction.  However its for now very unimpressive in terms of sound quality and basically everything apart from the build quality. Running it with Foobar and Asio trough bit-perfect mode, and I'd say its not as good as the ST, not even the head amp has more power than the ST, my DT880's get louder out the ST. The sound clarity is just not there. Everything sounds small, congested and muddy. Might be because its still new, but apart from the great build quality, I'd not pay more than 100$ for this thing. Good thing I can return within 8 days. Tomorrow I'll go to the store and compare it with Teac UD-H01, but as far as I remember, it sounded much better than Asus. It left me stunned by how good the DT880's sound, while with Asus they literally sound like...well, crap.  Honestly, DT880's plugged into 8 year old Philips FW-M567 mini stereo system sound as good if not better, and go just as loud without distortion, I'm not joking. At the moment I am HUGELY disappointed by this thing.
> 
> Just to add, I'm the most disappointed by the head amp section. Obviously "made for 600 Ohm headphone" is just a marketing gimmick.  It can't even run the 600 Ohm Beyers to comfortably loud level, let alone very loud.  Over 12 o'clock there's no increase in volume either.  Difference between the knob being at 12 o'clock and all the way to the end is like 4-5 decibels, virtually no increase in loudness.
> ...


 
  I think there must be some problem with your E1. With DT880 600 Ohm on E1 I usually set the headphone knob at 11 o'clock, DT1350 on 9 o'clock.


----------



## urbanhusky

Quote: 





balario said:


> Good morning people,
> I bought one of these and try to update the device no longer works.
> The LEDs are lit and I can not use the front buttons to restart the upgrade process again.
> Does anyone know how to do a reset on the device without using the front buttons "AND MUTE upsampling"?
> ...


 

 You'll most likely have to RMA it. Firmware updates of the XEO tend to brick it.


----------



## leeperry

There are two different firmwares(USB and MCU), did you update both?


----------



## Balario

After opening the box, I plugged in the USB port on the XEO PC.

 I inserted the installation CD and installed the driver.

 I accessed the site "Asus" and downloaded the update tool "MCU" as the file needed for the upgrade.

 After that, I did the update successfully.

 When I hung up and called again, all LEDs were lit.

 The driver "ASIO" is appearing in the system and can use as audio output but the players are not playing any audio boxes and not the "headphone" and buttons "Upsampling and mute" are disabled.

 I managed to update the firmware of the "USB" but even so the device does not work and can not make the sequel "Upsampling + Mute + Power" to try to update the firmware "MCU" again.

 Does it have any reset pin inside the XEO?

 Sorry for the English by Google Translate.


----------



## Crookshank

What the output impedance off HO?


----------



## urbanhusky

Quote: 





balario said:


> After opening the box, I plugged in the USB port on the XEO PC.
> 
> I inserted the installation CD and installed the driver.
> 
> ...


 

 You might have to RMA it. This is a common behaviour of the XEO.


----------



## gkl

Has anyone tried the Essence One with windows 8? Drivers working fine?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





crookshank said:


> What the output impedance off HO?


 

 According to my measurements the output impedance of headphone output is about 10,23 ohm (+- 0,03 ohm).
  It was measured at 100, 1000, 10000 Hz; at 100mV, 1,7 V; with load resistors of 30,66 and 222,4 ohm.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





balario said:


> After opening the box, I plugged in the USB port on the XEO PC.
> 
> I inserted the installation CD and installed the driver.
> 
> ...


 

 Did you reboot the computer?  You must reboot or the updates won't take affect.


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I am using DT 770 pro 250 ohm and normal listening is at 9 o'clock. With old DT 880 Studio 600 ohm (the same sensitivity as yours) about the same listening level is at 12 o'clock.
> I like to listen pretty loud, and there is no lack of power at 600 ohms.


 

 Agreed, I'm also using the DT 880 600 ohms at around 11/12 o'clock with no issues.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





midnightfox said:


> Agreed, I'm also using the DT 880 600 ohms at around 11/12 o'clock with no issues.


 
   
  I have no clue whatsoever how you guys get a decent volume at 11-12 o'clock. I had my DT880's cranked up at max. at all times and still found it lacking volume with the E1. All settings were at max. It gave me almost no volume at all at 12 o'clock with the 600ohm Beyers. My unit must have been broken or something then...


----------



## stv014

Did you have the (digital) volume turned down somewhere on the PC ? Did you listen to some very quiet music with wide dynamic range ?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Did you have the (digital) volume turned down somewhere on the PC ? Did you listen to some very quiet music with wide dynamic range ?


 
   
   
  No, as I said everything was on max. All volume settings maxed out.  Volume was fine with other headphones. With Ultrasone HFi2400 I didn't have to go past 10 o'clock, but with Beyers, E1 was useless. That's why I'm surprised to see people say they use it at 12 o'clock, because the unit I had was barely audible at that volume level, and was at comfortable listening level (on normal recordings) at max. volume. I listened to music on my DT880 for 2 hours at max. volume, just random playlist, and not one song that played was too loud, in fact most were too silent.


----------



## LSD25

I just got free Op-Amp samples from TI, is there any difference between *OPA2132P and OPA2132PA*


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> I just got free Op-Amp samples from TI, is there any difference between *OPA2132P and OPA2132PA*


 

 P version has some technical characteristics a bit better than PA.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> P version has some technical characteristics a bit better than PA.


 

 Well, I have three *OPA2132PA*s and one *OPA2132P*,  would it be okay if I use them together in the four I/V Slots (I/V Slot 1)?
   
  or do all four of them have to be exactly the same?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> Well, I have three *OPA2132PA*s and one *OPA2132P*,  would it be okay if I use them together in the four I/V Slots (I/V Slot 1)?
> 
> or do all four of them have to be exactly the same?


 

 Give them a try, specification tolerances go to + or -. They may be the same.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Give them a try, specification tolerances go to + or -. They may be the same.


 

 I hope it doesn't fry it lol I'll give it a go
   
  I remember reading somewhere that the P and PA at the end are just different types of packaging


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> I hope it doesn't fry it lol I'll give it a go
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that the P and PA at the end are just different types of packaging


 

 They are exactly the same except some different electrical tolerances


----------



## LSD25

I think I like this combo! 
  OPA2132 in I/V Slot 1
  and NE5532 in Buffer Slot 2
  It definitely added more warmth overall and power to the bottom end sound of my HD800
  Soundstage is wider too


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> I think I like this combo!
> OPA2132 in I/V Slot 1
> and NE5532 in Buffer Slot 2
> It definitely added more warmth overall and power to the bottom end sound of my HD800
> Soundstage is wider too


 

 Try to put LM 4562 that are at xlr outputs (you don't need them while listening to headphones) to Buffer slot 2 - there will be more detail and slightly less warm.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Try to put LM 4562 that are at xlr outputs (you don't need them while listening to headphones) to Buffer slot 2 - there will be more detail and slightly less warm.


 

 I'll give that a try. Though would it be ok if the xlr slots don't have any op-amps in them? or should i just swap them?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> I'll give that a try. Though would it be ok if the xlr slots don't have any op-amps in them? or should i just swap them?


 

 Swap them with NE 5532 for test, but if you will use xlr ouputs in the future, get a pair of 4562 .


----------



## vagii

I'm settled with 2*Dual AD797BR LPF, 4*LME49990MA I/V, 2*OPA2211AIDDA Buffer.
  Problem is, now there is too much freaking sibilance in those pop, rock, r&b flacs. I loved The Hill of Thieves from Cara Dillon, but now i just can't stand her essssss...on the other hand, Diana Krall the Girl in the other Room 24/88 flac sounds amazing without sibilance.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





vagii said:


> I'm settled with 2*Dual AD797BR LPF, 4*LME49990MA I/V, 2*OPA2211AIDDA Buffer.
> Problem is, now there is too much freaking sibilance in those pop, rock, r&b flacs. I loved The Hill of Thieves from Cara Dillon, but now i just can't stand her essssss...on the other hand, Diana Krall the Girl in the other Room 24/88 flac sounds amazing without sibilance.


 
  You should try a parametric equalizer using the VST wrapper if you're on foobar.
  its pretty effective in removing the sibilance


----------



## bizkid

I tried the AD797 but it was oscilating and getting VERY hot. I would leave the output stages as they are and use the LME49990 for i/v and filter stages of the DAC. This doesnt change the soundsignature but delivers more clarity, less harsh highs and a bigger more 3d soundstage. All other OPAs i tried were coloring the sound way  too much esp. the OPA827 and 627. The output stages are already very well equiped, you won't find better in $$$$$ studio DACs. The headphone output for example works better for my ears with the supplied LME49720 as compared to the LME49990.


----------



## vagii

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> You should try a parametric equalizer using the VST wrapper if you're on foobar.
> its pretty effective in removing the sibilance


 
  I don't find any sibilance problem in better vocal recordings.
  I'm using SPL Vitalizer MK2-T(mostly off) and Sonalksis Ultimate-D tracking/mastering VSTs in uLilith.


----------



## vagii

Quote: 





bizkid said:


> I tried the AD797 but it was oscilating and getting VERY hot. I would leave the output stages as they are and use the LME49990 for i/v and filter stages of the DAC. This doesnt change the soundsignature but delivers more clarity, less harsh highs and a bigger more 3d soundstage. All other OPAs i tried were coloring the sound way  too much esp. the OPA827 and 627. The output stages are already very well equiped, you won't find better in $$$$$ studio DACs. The headphone output for example works better for my ears with the supplied LME49720 as compared to the LME49990.


 

 My AD797s on LPF(from audiojade@ebay) are cooler than LME49990 on I/V. Also, LT1358 sounds great on LPF, especially for recordings like Friday Night in San Francisco.
  Anyone has tried OPA1611/OPA1612 on LPF/Buffer?


----------



## daws0n

I am going to upgrade the opamps in my E1. I use it for playing music through my hifi via the RCA outputs (headphone and XLR outputs not used).
   
  I have spent some time reading through this thread and others, and it seems like the best approach would be replace all NE5532 chips in the I/V and LPF stage with dual LME49990 on DIP-8 adapters??
   
  I am also considering changing the RCA's output LME49720NA for a higher grade TO99/metal can LME49720HA.
   
  AD797 has also been recommended, but I have read mixed opinions as to how stable it is (known to oscillate etc..)?
   
  I am about to order parts off eBay, so any advice you guys have would be much appreciated.


----------



## winged creature

Hey guys I'm trying to improve the details on this DAC and make it a tad more laid back.  Are there any op-amps I can switch to achieve this?


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





winged creature said:


> Hey guys I'm trying to improve the details on this DAC and make it a tad more laid back.  Are there any op-amps I can switch to achieve this?


 
   
  I believe Asus made a PDF on this subject, but OPA2132P would be a safe bet


----------



## winged creature

Would i be replacing all of the opamps with that particular one, or would I choose a particular opamp.  Im new this whole mod stuff


----------



## daws0n

I'm still awaiting the rest of the chips to complete the upgrade, but so far I have replaced the RCA output stage and low pass filter chips with LME9720HAs (3 altogether). The change was not subtle - the "edgy" treble/brightness has gone and the DAC's sound signature has more midrange weight and a noticeable increase in bass output.
   
  I plan to to replace the NE5532PE chips in the I/V stage with the same once they arrive. So far I am pleased with the change.
  
  I considered using the more expensive single LME49990s (See above) but decided against it - they require good PSU decoupling caps and I am not sure the E1's layout is sufficient (people who have tried this combo have reported the chips run very hot, suggesting oscillation). In contrast, the LME49720s only has half the gain bandwidth, and is a less/fussy more stable chip to "drop in" to an existing circuit.
   
  Good luck 
   
  Dawson


----------



## mwindham08

I've ran the E1 with the dt 990s 600 ohm and the T1 and it runs them both great. Should be no reason to go past 12, let alone turn volume all the way up. If I did that with any of my Beyers I would go deaf!


----------



## daws0n

Hmm interesting development... Asus are releasing a special "MUSE" edition using 6 x NJRC MUSE 01 opamps for the I/V and LPF stages:

 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/1.html

 It's considerably more expensive, so I checked out these chips are they're $50 each on digikey?! Wow, I sure hope they're worth the money - strange how Asus have gone for this seemingly little known estoric chip and not something reputable from Texas Instruments, Burr Brown et al.


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





daws0n said:


> Hmm interesting development... Asus are releasing a special "MUSE" edition using 6 x NJRC MUSE 01 opamps for the I/V and LPF stages:
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/1.html
> 
> It's considerably more expensive, so I checked out these chips are they're $50 each on digikey?! Wow, I sure hope they're worth the money - strange how Asus have gone for this seemingly little known estoric chip and not something reputable from Texas Instruments, Burr Brown et al.


 
   
  Quite an interesting article as you get to read a little about the development team behind the Essence One and there future outlook. I will be interested to read a full review on the Muses Edition and how well it sounds with MUSES 01 Op-Amps.


----------



## daws0n

Yes I thought so too. I've completed the upgrade on mine (67xLM9720HA metal tin op amps on I/V and LPF stage, plus another for the RCA output) and am pleased with the results - the fact that there are now 3 editions of the E1 (original, PLUS and now MUSE) goes to show that the NE5532 configuration was hardly optimal and chosen for cost reasons rather than absolute performance.... I am looking forward to hearing how it sounds with these MUSE opamps also, but given the price of them I doubt I'll take the plunge!


----------



## nosemanny

I just got my Beyerdynamic T1 and I was suprised that the ASUS drives them easy, I have the volume at 9 o'clock and I find it quite good, but I dont have any experience with other more expensive amps, but I'm thinking to get Bottlehead crack or Woo audio wa2 later I'm not sure yet.


----------



## daws0n

New drivers and firmware have been released - well worth checking out IME, fixes all the issues I had regarding the bit perfect LED misbehaviour and ASIO pops/clicks.
   
  I have to say with the recent opamp upgrade and these new improvements this is a top DAC!


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





daws0n said:


> New drivers and firmware have been released - well worth checking out IME, fixes all the issues I had regarding the bit perfect LED misbehaviour and ASIO pops/clicks.
> 
> I have to say with the recent opamp upgrade and these new improvements this is a top DAC!


 

 Agree with you, ASIO pops/clicks are removed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  Sounds top class and stable with AD797 BR on I/V, LME 49720 HA on buffer and headamp buffer.
  Excellent is LT 1028 on I/V with dry bass, but very analytical and detailed.


----------



## Suopermanni

I've got one of these and from the discussion here, some of the respondents here know how to mod it. I've just got two main questions I need to ask you guys.
   
  1. Is there a method to change OPamps in relative safety? I've had nightmare experiences with OPamp swapping before, mostly causing my devices to stop working.
  
  2. How do I know what goes where? I'm a newbie at this sort of thing so I don't know what type of OPamp goes in what slot. I've read the OPamp guide done by Asus and I understand that but if I want to do more, what do I have to know?


----------



## daws0n

Here's a low down of my experience with op-amp installation/best tools for the job etc...
   
  http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=7599&page=3


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Sounds top class and stable with AD797 BR [..] LT 1028 on I/V


 
   
  Did you manage to stabilize them? AD797BR was wooshing IME from time to time, and I can't imagine what the super cranky LT1028ACN8 would do


----------



## daws0n

I am interested in hearing your comments too DM - how do the AD797 sound on the I/V?
   
  In my experience the biggest leap was when I swapped the RCA output and LPF to LME49720HAs, that really transformed the DAC's character in my system... When I eventually bought more to upgrade the stock I/V I did not hear that much of an improvement in comparison.
   
  @ Suopermanni
   
  You need to swap all opamps from a given section in one go.... Going from front to back - the I/V opamps are the row of 4 chips, the LPF is next row (just 2 chips) and the remaining 3 nearest the output jacks at the back are for the output stage(s). The top right hand chip effects the RCA output, and the two left of that one are for the XLRs (one for each channel).


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Did you manage to stabilize them? AD797BR was wooshing IME from time to time, and I can't imagine what the super cranky LT1028ACN8 would do


 
  AD797BR and LT1028 (on 2x mono to dual adapters) work stable on I/V stage when followed by LME49720 HA or LME49720 DIP or LME 4562 or LME 49860 on Filter/Buffer.
  I/V stage uses high amplification rate and uncompensated IC's are stable. At all other stages there is mainly buffering and low amplification rate so there is the need for compensated IC's.
   
  Quote: 





daws0n said:


> I am interested in hearing your comments too DM - how do the AD797 sound on the I/V?
> 
> In my experience the biggest leap was when I swapped the RCA output and LPF to LME49720HAs, that really transformed the DAC's character in my system... When I eventually bought more to upgrade the stock I/V I did not hear that much of an improvement in comparison.


 
  AD797 sounds like listening to live performance, not emhasizing anything but with lots of bass, midrange and highs. It is not easy to explain. You can concentrate on any instrument and take attention to it's line. Soundstage is very 3D. I can listen to them long time with no fatigue. LME 49720 HA's are very transparent and pass all the AD797's goods to outputs.
  LME 49720 HA's compared to LME 4562 has clearer and more detailed highs, smoother midrange, bass is the same. LME 49860 has more pronounced highs, less bottom end.


----------



## jamieuk147

Can I just ask... So for me to get dolby surrond sound gaming on my headphones I would need to have a internal sound card in my PC as well?


----------



## daws0n

Yes, I believe you would Jamie - this is specifically a 2 channel music playback device, AFAIK it has  no support for dolby etc...
   
  DMarasovic, thanks for the feedback I think I will give those a go sometime. They were on my candidate list before I upgraded, but I read too many comments regarding oscillation/stability issues with them. Where abouts would you recommend I order from? I see they're dirt cheap from China on eBay (£2.50 a chip) but I have heard stories you get a lot of fake chips on eBay.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





daws0n said:


> Yes, I believe you would Jamie - this is specifically a 2 channel music playback device, AFAIK it has  no support for dolby etc...
> 
> DMarasovic, thanks for the feedback I think I will give those a go sometime. They were on my candidate list before I upgraded, but I read too many comments regarding oscillation/stability issues with them. Where abouts would you recommend I order from? I see they're dirt cheap from China on eBay (£2.50 a chip) but I have heard stories you get a lot of fake chips on eBay.


 

 I have ordered my modules (as well as some other members of Head-Fi) from here: http://tinyurl.com/995d5tf


----------



## mojorific

Just received my Bottlehead Crack kit, and was comparing sound between the headphone output on the E1 vs.the non-balanced output to the Crack (using Senn 650's).
   
   
*E1 by itself *- Highs are strong and impacting (sometimes a bit harsh), and the mid-range lacks some depth.  Bass is up front and snappy.
   
*E1 interconnect to Crack* - Highs are crisp without being harsh.   Mid-range is warm.  Bass is deep.
   
  Crack and E1 make a nice pair!  It is better in all the right places without taking anything away.  I think adding some op-amps and some tube rolling might improve the sound even further.


----------



## Archimago

A quick question about how the "asymmetric upsampling" work.
   
  If 44/88/176 kHz --> 352kHz
  and
  48/96/192 --> 384kHz
   
  I assume this upsampling is done by the SHARC chip. Then how does the dual PCM1795's (I think this is the DAC in the Essence One) handle the 300+kHz data when it's only able to handle up to ~192kHz?
   
  Also, with the firmware updates, did they fix the common complaint about high frequency roll-off with the upsampling?


----------



## mojorific

Quote: 





archimago said:


> A quick question about how the "asymmetric upsampling" work.
> 
> If 44/88/176 kHz --> 352kHz
> and
> ...


 
   
  Honestly i'm not sure technically, but from my personal experience I do not like the upsampling ability.  It brings a bit more clarity to instruments, but it has a more 'tinny' sound to my ears and less 'warmth'.    I also tried the foobar2000 DSP upsampling ability, and while that also increases the sample rate, it again, takes something away from the warmth of the sound in doing so.
   
  Yes, the firmware did fix the high frequency roll-off.  I didn't experience it because I updated the firmware knowing this when I got it.
   
  Upgrading the firmware requires you use a USB 2.0 port (I tried with a USB 3.0 port and it fails).  Also, there are 2 firmwares to update (which wasn't really clear from their website).  There is an Essence One firmware (latest 1.27), and an Audio Chip F/W (latest 0111).
   
   
  For those looking to roll op-amps, I recommend for your first go at it that you should swap out the 2 low pass filter op-amps from slot 2 in the manual (it comes with NE5532's) with LM4562NA's.  It was a noticeable improvement in the low-end sound depth and impact.


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





mojorific said:


> Honestly i'm not sure technically, but from my personal experience I do not like the upsampling ability.  It brings a bit more clarity to instruments, but it has a more 'tinny' sound to my ears and less 'warmth'.    I also tried the foobar2000 DSP upsampling ability, and while that also increases the sample rate, it again, takes something away from the warmth of the sound in doing so.
> 
> Yes, the firmware did fix the high frequency roll-off.  I didn't experience it because I updated the firmware knowing this when I got it.
> 
> ...


 

 Great tips mojo! Good to hear the high-end roll off is gone. I'm expecting delivery of one of these early next week... Probably will do some opamp rolling in time. I assume the LM4562NA have absolutely no issues with oscillations and such...  If I can get a good deal on more of these opamps, would you recommend replacing some of the other NE5532's in the I/V? I'm particularly interested in optimizing the headphone output.
   
  Is there a good web page of opamp recommendations out there for the Essence One?


----------



## syryanyang

I've been hearing people saying that there are unpleasant noise when using USB input, is it real?


----------



## citraian

@syryanyang On my unit there's no unpleasant noise when using the USB input.
   
  Two weeks ago I've purchased an Essence One to go along with my HD 650 and K 550 headphones. I've previously used a Xonar Phoebus (which is comparable to Essence STX on the headphone output) and the step up is huge. The HD 650's have woken up with this. They were not "lazy" anymore  The K550's are no longer sibilant and have way more bass now 
   
  I know that only 10% are going to believe this but after changing the stock cables with a Wireworld Ultraviolet USB cable and a Wireworld Stratus Power cable everything changed. I was blown away. Like I've replaced the Essence one with another (more expensive) DAC. I suggest that you at least give audiophile USB and Power cables a try. I wasn't a believer before but I sure am now.
   
  Thursday I've also got a new pair of LCD-2 Rosewood to go with them. The Essence One drives them beautifully and the sound is great. Big bass, great mids, and detailed sweet treble.
   
  Has anybody tried the MUSES op-amps yet? I'm thinking of replacing all stock op-amps to match the configuration in the MUSES edition, basically turning my stock Essence One into a Muses edition Essence One. Will this work or are there any other hardware changes in the new edition?


----------



## syryanyang

Quote: 





citraian said:


> @syryanyang On my unit there's no unpleasant noise when using the USB input.
> 
> Two weeks ago I've purchased an Essence One to go along with my HD 650 and K 550 headphones. I've previously used a Xonar Phoebus (which is comparable to Essence STX on the headphone output) and the step up is huge. The HD 650's have woken up with this. They were not "lazy" anymore  The K550's are no longer sibilant and have way more bass now
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks man. I do believe power cable can make a big difference sometimes.
  Hey what do you think it will do with sub-100 ohms headphones like Q/K 701s or mad dogs.


----------



## citraian

If it can drive LCD-2 it will surely drive the Q/K's. To their full potential? I don't know, it depends what someone means by full potential. It will sound better with multi-thousand dollars sources but, at this price range, I didn't find anything better.
   
  EDIT:
  I'm having some problems with the Essence Once and I'm not able to pinpoint the cause.
  1. From time to time, Essence One is not recognized by Windows. In order to solve this I need to turn it off and turn it on again. This happened to me twice in the two weeks that passed since I got it.
  2. Earlier today, after I finished playing some songs I left my computer for a few minutes and when I came back I couldn't get any sound from my DAC. A few minutes ago this happened again. In order to solve this I need to turn it off and turn it on again.
   
  Did any of you experience issues like this? I'm pretty sure that this is not an Essence One only issues since a friend of mine experiences them with the new Burson Conductor.


----------



## morfeeus

Just like to mention that I've upheld my purchase for a dac upgrade for a long period of time. Looked to many dacs along the way, including the ESSENCE ONE. Been keeping myself informed by many sources through this path. I finally did the plunge. For my benefit, l did not have to replace my soundcard being the X-MERIDIAN operating in 2.1 channel configuration and totally modded....opamps, clock and caps. I am now utilizing iZotopes professional studio software tools. Licensed to a few developers. The tools are a  SRC sample rate convertor with upsampling from 44.1 to all rates including 192. Also a MBIT Dither bit convertor to 24 or 32 bit for a 64 bit Windows OS. Its SONY SOUND FORGE PRO 10. Price l paid $250.
   
  For those STILL in need to hear more info about the ESSENCE ONE. Here is the latest review.
   
  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/488-asus-xonar-essence-one-review/


----------



## daws0n

Just chiming in to echo mojorific's advice rep-amp upgrading...
   
  The first change I made to mine was replacing the stock LPF chips with LME9720HAs (they're LM4562NA's, with metal cans bodies) and noticed a significant improvement in sound quality... Increased bass "weight" and mid-range presence, and a less eager top end. Much better, and well worth the £££ it cost to do.
   
  Since then, I've replaced the rest of the stock NE5532 and RCA output stage with LME9720HAs aswell.


----------



## Archimago

Just got my E1 2 days ago.  The firmware update to USB 111 and MCU 1.27 certainly improved the sound - was a bit of an adventure on my Windows 8 PC (initially the firmware program refused to run so had to use a Win 7 laptop, the MCU firmware ran fine on Win 8).
   
  I was experiencing odd "pinging" like sounds/distortions every 30 seconds until I updated the USB firmware from 107 -> 111.
   
  Have already opened up the unit to put a few heatsinks on the DAC chips, SHARC, and headphone amps. I should be getting 6 LM4562NA's by the end of the week to try the "Xonar Essence One LM4562 Edition" 
   
  For those wondering, it sounds great with Senn HD800's. Plenty of power for AKG Q701's also. The Windows driver so far seems *much* better than the old E-MU 0404USB I was running. Sound compared to the 0404 also fuller and more authoritative in the midrange. The 0404 was unable to power the Q701's to a high enough volume.


----------



## daws0n

Enjoy  The LME9720HAs will yield further improvement again, and I have read people have had good results with LME49990 and AD797 BRs too.


----------



## LSD25

I've been playing around with Parametric equalizer more and more these days, using HD800 with E1.
  And I gotta say, I'm very pleased with the results I get from it!
  I used the NE5532s in buffer slot 2 for more powerful bass.
   
   
  Oh and about the USB giving unpleasant noise, I have that problem as well (I'm using Windows 8 64-bit)
  When I play a high bit rate flac file, and if i listen carefully, I definitely hear noise. Makes the sound less detailed and "rusty" (for the lack of a better word)
  At first I thought it was just the file, but when I switched to the TOS connection, there was no noise at all!
   
  Maybe its because the driver for windows 8 is still in beta stage?
  or it might be noise caused by the USB cable since the cable is relatively thin (not sure if those ferrite beads on the cable do anything), and the back of my computer is a nest of wires.
   
   
  Thing that sucks now though is that my soundcard's (creative xtremegamer x-fi) maximum output is 96Khz on s/pdif.
  And I really don't know If I should consider buying a new sound card...
  and I dont know how much of an impact a different sound card's digital output will make, since It's just digital signal, and the DAC does all the conversion...
  Any thoughts on that?
   
  Edit: I think I might use the onboard sound card's (Realtek) digital coaxial.


----------



## Archimago

Hi LSD.
   
  Curious which parametric EQ you're playing with and what settings you're ending up with for the E1 + HD800?
   
  I noticed that the USB noise actually is gone now for me after the firmware update to USB 111. Even before I updated the MCU firmware to 1.27 so I suspect the Win8 driver is OK and the old firmware was the problem. I'll have a better listen tonight for small anomalies.
   
  I'm of the opinion that USB cables are unable to add small levels of distortion due to the digital nature - if 24/192 works then there should not be a problem at lower bitrates. Of course many would debate this.
   
  Hey, could someone summarize the functions of the OpAmps for those of us neophytes? What does I/V mean, what does the buffer do? Which of these positions are most sensitive to opamp quality?


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





archimago said:


> Hi LSD.
> 
> Curious which parametric EQ you're playing with and what settings you're ending up with for the E1 + HD800?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just use the EasyQ VST plugin from here: http://www.rs-met.com/freebies.html
  Its easy to work with, it is not too over the top, gets the job done. (Using Foobar btw)
  Though I want to get my hands on the Dynamic EQ VST plugin by Melda
   
  The equalization really depends on the type of song you're listening to. You can pretty much make the HD800s rumble your head with tight bass, if you do it properly. I just figured it out by trial and error, playing around with the steepness of the curves. left part is the bottom end sound, right is the high end dealing with treble.
   
  I'm still unsure about the noise on USB.. for some reason when I used the USB cable that Asus provided (which is thicker and shorter than the printer usb cable i used earlier), the noise disappeared. But for now I think I'll stick with the digital coaxial signal
   
   
  and I wanna know about those question as well. I just followed the instructions in the manual to switch the opamps lol


----------



## Archimago

Cool plugins on that site LSD.
   
  Will play when I have time 
   
  Picked up the LM4562's... Spent a little more money locally through the distributor to make sure I get the genuine National parts. I hear eBay often sells knock-offs (?relabeled NE5532's?).
   
  Will have fun doing the retrofit tonight.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





archimago said:


> Cool plugins on that site LSD.
> 
> Will play when I have time
> 
> ...


 

 I got my NE5532s from the Texas Instrument website, they were free samples, and I'm sure they are probably genuine.


----------



## Archimago

LOL  

So far, enjoying my E1 'LM4562 Edition'. Replaced all the NE5532's. Very spacious, clean sound. I like it so far and at least theoretically, these guys should be good


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Hi,
   
   
  Which USB and MCU firmware version are you running?
   
   
   
  Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> I've been playing around with Parametric equalizer more and more these days, using HD800 with E1.
> And I gotta say, I'm very pleased with the results I get from it!
> I used the NE5532s in buffer slot 2 for more powerful bass.
> 
> ...


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Hi Citraian,
   
  The only hardware difference is the addition of a gain jumper for sensitive IEMs in the MUSES edition. Other than that, it's just the MUSES op-amps in the I/V and LPF sections.
  Quote: 





citraian said:


> Has anybody tried the MUSES op-amps yet? I'm thinking of replacing all stock op-amps to match the configuration in the MUSES edition, basically turning my stock Essence One into a Muses edition Essence One. Will this work or are there any other hardware changes in the new edition?


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Which USB and MCU firmware version are you running?


 
   
  Shows this on my information:
  And I'm using Windows 8 64-bit


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Hi,
   
  Can you try different USB ports and see if the noise persists? If it does, please provide a list of all components and setup so that I can pass to HQ for replication. Did you have this issue on Windows 7 also?
   
   
  Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> Shows this on my information:
> And I'm using Windows 8 64-bit


----------



## cssarrow

Has anyone been using the MUSE01 Op Amps with their essence one?

How does it compare to other op amps? Do you think Asus is right for picking this op amp for their muses edition?

I only have MUSE01's in my Essence One and haven't tried others so i can't tell.

- Tim


----------



## ionicle

got one of those babies myself, just noticed they released new drivers and firmware - FW is already installed, just one question regarding the drivers: Do I have to uninstall the previous ones first before installing the new ones?


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





ionicle said:


> got one of those babies myself, just noticed they released new drivers and firmware - FW is already installed, just one question regarding the drivers: Do I have to uninstall the previous ones first before installing the new ones?


 
  Yes, uninstall the old driver first. Follow any prompts for a system restart if requested.


----------



## nicholars

I was interested in this DAC a while ago but I sort of forgot about it as it took so long to come out....
   
  Without me reading through the whole 61 page thread can someone tell me if this turned out to be any good?
   
  What is the sound like?


----------



## cssarrow

nicholars said:


> I was interested in this DAC a while ago but I sort of forgot about it as it took so long to come out....
> 
> Without me reading through the whole 61 page thread can someone tell me if this turned out to be any good?
> 
> What is the sound like?




There are many reviews to be found on google, theres really none on headfi. I ran this thing stock (the original one version, not pro or muses edition) and it sounded superior to my $449 Nuforce HDP. Its mids are more defined, soundstage is larger, not as smooth as the hdp but thats what makes it more transparent (life like).

I went ahead and bought 6 MUSE01 op amps which are the flagship (best) from JRC (new japan radio co.) poped them in, and now its light years ahead. I can say that its as good as the benchmark dac1 which ive also had the chance to hear recently with my system. I have not yet compared it to the nuforce d-100 but would like to.

So yeah, at $550-590 for the essence one its a very good value. Especially since it has a linear power supply, fully balanced xlr output, preamp, amp, 24bit/192khz DAC, headphone amp, and its 8x upsampling does balance out my sound nicely.

My HDP only does 24/96 and doesn't have the 32bit DSP that the essence provides.
You can always upgrade it later on to the MUSE01 or MUSE 8920 op amps which will make music more transparent and well seperated.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Check the latest Head-Fi buyers guide for Jude's impressions of the Essence One and Essence One MUSES 
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/a/2012-head-fi-holiday-gift-guide-computer-audio


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Check the latest Head-Fi buyers guide for Jude's impressions of the Essence One and Essence One MUSES
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/2012-head-fi-holiday-gift-guide-computer-audio


 
   
  It was what guaranteed my purchase of the essence one.
   
  I cannot find MUSES Edition that is sold in America/Online. So i bought the Essence One with MUSES01 Op Amps instead.
   
  I'd like to ask Asus a question:
  Was the MUSES01's worth the $300 extra? Considering there is zero/close to no reviews of the MUSES01's anywhere online.
   
  If you want, i can make a full in depth review of the Xonar Essence One Muses Edition vs NuForce Icon HDP.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Averruncus

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> If you want, i can make a full in depth review of the Xonar Essence One Muses Edition vs NuForce Icon HDP.
> 
> *Tim*


 
   

 I would love to hear a review comparing the two, as the Nuforce Icon HDP was actually what I was considering to buy against the E1. A review would probably help others to decide on which combo would best suit their needs.
   
  I ultimately decided on the E1 and am extremely pleased with the results so far, pairs fantastically with my HE500. Still waiting for 4 more LME49720HA I've ordered to switch out my entire I/V and LPF section. Very curious on how the MUSES compared to the LMEs though.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





averruncus said:


> I would love to hear a review comparing the two, as the Nuforce Icon HDP was actually what I was considering to buy against the E1. A review would probably help others to decide on which combo would best suit their needs.
> 
> I ultimately decided on the E1 and am extremely pleased with the results so far, pairs fantastically with my HE500. Still waiting for 4 more LME49720HA I've ordered to switch out my entire I/V and LPF section. Very curious on how the MUSES compared to the LMEs though.


 
  You got it!
   
  I've had my HDP for nearly a year, so i'll be able to hear all subtle changes when switching DAC/Amps.
  Already have a good general sense of it.
   
  I'll listen to them for a few days - few weeks.
   
  What i'll do:
  Compare NuForce Icon HDP vs Essence One
  Compare Essence One vs Essence One _Muses Edition_
  Compare Essence One _Muses Edition_ vs NuForce Icon HDP
   
  Bonus: Compare Essence One _MUSES Edition _to NuForce Icon HDP w/ Sigma 11 Linear Power Supply
  Thinking about doing: Compare Modi/Magni to all of them.
   
  As for now, what i can tell is that the "_*E1 ME*_" sounds better than HDP in transparency, seperation, decay, mono in/out phase, bass punchy/tightness, detail, and spatial positioning of sound. HE-500 works better with the essence one. I feel as if the bottleneck (from the lack of wattage) is gone. Less hiss/static at loud volumes compared to the HDP. NuForce is a tad smoother but less emphasis on mid treble, well centered, full, and less neutral.
   
  Will expand everything in a full in depth review soon. watch out for it! 
   
  Let me know how the LME49720HA works out.
   
  One thing im not clear about is that ASUS switched out six NE5532's in I/V & LFP with MUSES01 which only affects the Balanced XLR and Unbalanced RCA and not the headphone amp right? which means, i would need two more (8 total MUSE01) in order to output all to XLR,RCA, and Headphone correct?
  I don't use XLR output as often, so perhaps i switch the XLR's Muses with the headphone's I/V & LFP, should that be possible?
   
*Tim*


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> One thing im not clear about is that ASUS switched out six NE5532's in I/V & LFP with MUSES01 which only affects the Balanced XLR and Unbalanced RCA and not the headphone amp right? which means, i would need two more (8 total MUSE01) in order to output all to XLR,RCA, and Headphone correct?
> I don't use XLR output as often, so perhaps i switch the XLR's Muses with the headphone's I/V & LFP, should that be possible?
> 
> *Tim*


 
  I/V and LPF precedes all outputs - including XLR, RCA and headphones.
  All those outputs use high quality opamps that obviously can pass-through Muses created sound.
  It would be great if someone from Asus should suggest if there is possible to upgrade muses edition by swapping output IC´s as they made hundreds of combinations during developement.


----------



## Pippin76

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> You got it!
> 
> I've had my HDP for nearly a year, so i'll be able to hear all subtle changes when switching DAC/Amps.
> Already have a good general sense of it.
> ...


 
   
  Count me in as interested too 
   
  I have thought about the MUSES but in the end went with much cheaper 4562's, after all Im new to the whole HP hifi thing. Should get them tomorrow. Right now, Im running He'400's out of the essence and am very happy with the results, completely and utterly blows my old Creative Audigy/AKG K240 out of the water


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I/V and LPF precedes all outputs - including XLR, RCA and headphones.
> All those outputs use high quality opamps that obviously can pass-through Muses created sound.
> It would be great if someone from Asus should suggest if there is possible to upgrade muses edition by swapping output IC´s as they made hundreds of combinations during developement.


 
  Clarified by Xonar.
  Quote: 





pippin76 said:


> Count me in as interested too
> 
> I have thought about the MUSES but in the end went with much cheaper 4562's, after all Im new to the whole HP hifi thing. Should get them tomorrow. Right now, Im running He'400's out of the essence and am very happy with the results, completely and utterly blows my old Creative Audigy/AKG K240 out of the water


 
 It took me some time to think too, wasn't sure the $50 would be worth it, but to me, it has. Makes sound more "live,lifelike,transparent, realism, etc, same word" middle vocals contain a rich detail swavey touch to them. They're not overbearingly clear like some DAC/Amps that are so clear, sometimes it ends up making the treble painful to hear. These are wonderful, extends bass so well. This one does a lot better than the HDP when it comes to making sounds more vinyl(less digital) sounding. Upsampling works great for increase in overall presentation, however with that increase of resolution, the fullness of the mids sounds less superb. I only listen with upsampling on certain songs, like jazz for example. (btw i listen to all genre of music, even kpop and indian music)

 Pros worth noteing:
  1. Outputs RCA/XLR and Headphone simultaneously (two volume bars) (Fully balanced XLR output)
  2. Contains its own linear power supply
  3. Looks nice, no sharp edges
  4. Upsampling helps with certain songs
  5. asynchronous usb for extremely low jitter
  6. WIMA & nichicon capacitors, great PCB layout (multiple layers).
  7. OP AMP design with consumer in mind (rhymed haha), shares their inner secrets unlike other high end makers and lets people customize the sound to their liking *see con*
  8. 2x DAC Chip Texas Instrument BurrBrown PCM1795 does 24bit/192khz (HDP can't do that, nope, nope)
  9. Converts music files (with upsampling) to their respected "real" 8 times frequency. (32bit)
  10. Not fully enclosed, semi-open back for heat dissipation.
  11. Mute Button
  12. THD+N at 1kHz at 0.000316 %(-110 dB). VERY LOW. I've seen thousand dollar dac/amps with 0.0005 and up.
  13. SNR : 120 dB a very spectacular number.
  14. Asus conducts tests of distortion, SNR, etc, on each one of their products, shows you they have the balls to back up their product.
   
  Cons worth noteing:
  1. For the price, the aluminum casing is great, however they should of made an extra touch and make the buttons/volume nozzle aluminum as well. but really not a big deal.
  2. With the giant size of the toroidal & Essence one, they could of increased the power supply pcb size added some more soothing capacitors for better dc output and increase wattage driving power for headphones. I believe the one now has 600mW for 32 ohm headphones, would be nice if it were able to hit the 1W spec for planar (HE-500 and up) As of now, it's good enough to drive the HE-400, LCD-2. I don't have the LCD-3 so i can't say. HE-500 runs "GREAT" on them. However, it may improve with 400mW extra.
  3. The MUSES01 is a little overpriced, $50 on digikey, $59.90 on ebay. It makes you wonder how different they sound than their younger brother/sister the MUSES 8920.
  4. Not sold everywhere, i found them on Amazon, Ebay, and Newegg. Prices are $575 and over (usually with free shipping). Better to buy off ebay, no tax.
  5. Op Amps not explained very well. For a company that makes audiophile dac/amp and has tested numerous op amps, they should of given customers a whole piece of paper on which type of op amp delivers what kind of sound. (talk about a waste of effort not releasing such information)
  6. No Remote
   
  I just felt like sharing some of these information with you so i can go back and pick out important things i might have missed for my final review.
  I was surprised to find out that they had their own Audio Experts Team and keeps it strictly there (they do not consult with other departments in their company. They are also able to get parts cheaper (come on.. we know taiwan makes a large portion of chips) and higher quality control because they are a marketing titan.
   
*Tim*


----------



## ASUSXONAR

The MUSES Edition is on sale here:
   
  http://www.excaliberpc.com/622377/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses.html
   
   
  Amazon and Newegg should have it on sale soon, too.
   
  Feel free to compare the op-amps yourself, we found them more refined then others we tried. WRT your later posts in this thread, the diagram you've posted below is not quite right. All outputs are affected by the I/V (obviously) and LPF opamps near the DAC ICs - even the headphone output stage. The power circuitry on the left of the board is 5V, +12 and -12V rails and not distributed the way you show in the picture. 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> It was what guaranteed my purchase of the essence one.
> 
> I cannot find MUSES Edition that is sold in America/Online. So i bought the Essence One with MUSES01 Op Amps instead.
> 
> ...


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you try different USB ports and see if the noise persists? If it does, please provide a list of all components and setup so that I can pass to HQ for replication. Did you have this issue on Windows 7 also?


 

 Sorry for the late response, finals kept me busy.
   
  I tried using different USB ports and it turns out that noise happens the most when I use the front side USB ports. When I plugged it directly at the back there was relatively less noise.
  My current setup is Windows 8 64-bit, and Essence one is connected to the USB port, and I have HD800 plugged into its headphone jack.
  I used foobar2000 with ASIO output. The buffer length is 50ms.
   
  Similar issue was with MacBook Pro (early 2011) using Windows 7 this time in bootcamp. It was significant when I was playing Batman: Arkham City game. I plugged the usb of E1 into a usb hub.
  There was also the wireless mouse receiver, and xbox 360 controller plugged in the hub.
  At cut scenes, the dialogues sounded very glitchy. Especially when it came to high pitched vocal sounds (like in the catwoman scenes).
  When I plugged it in directly into the usb port of my Macbook, the glitchy sound was relatively less.
   
  When I used the optical cable, there was no issue whatsoever.
   
   
   
  Another very strange issue (well not really a big issue) I have with E1 is that I get loud crackling sound from the right side of my headphone while turning the volume knob. It isn't a fault in headphones because it happens with all my other headphones as well.
  The crackling goes away after I turn the volume knob all the way back and forth a about 3 - 4 times, fading after each full turn.
   
  Now this only happens when I turn it on after a long time, so lets say when it is cold in the morning and I turn it on fresh.
  The crackling doesn't happen though if I turn it off and back on again within a short period of time. I guess its because it stays warm and doesn't get completely cold?


----------



## cssarrow

Edited.


----------



## Sniping

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Check the latest Head-Fi buyers guide for Jude's impressions of the Essence One and Essence One MUSES
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/2012-head-fi-holiday-gift-guide-computer-audio


 
  Thanks for joining the community.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

I have the E One setup on an R4E motherboard, using a 5G USB Wi-Fi dongle and running GTX 570s triple SLI with Arkham City - no glitching or noise via USB using HD800s on headphone output at any sampling frequency or bit rate. Win 7 64 bit. So not sure why you are having these problems. It might be worth trying an RMA and if that does not cure it, the issue has to lie elsewhere on the USB side of the computers you are connecting.  
  Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> Sorry for the late response, finals kept me busy.
> 
> I tried using different USB ports and it turns out that noise happens the most when I use the front side USB ports. When I plugged it directly at the back there was relatively less noise.
> My current setup is Windows 8 64-bit, and Essence one is connected to the USB port, and I have HD800 plugged into its headphone jack.
> ...


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> I have the E One setup on an R4E motherboard, using a 5G USB Wi-Fi dongle and running GTX 570s triple SLI with Arkham City - no glitching or noise via USB using HD800s on headphone output at any sampling frequency or bit rate. Win 7 64 bit. So not sure why you are having these problems. It might be worth trying an RMA and if that does not cure it, the issue has to lie elsewhere on the USB side of the computers you are connecting.


 
  ASUS recreating an event.


----------



## LSD25

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> I have the E One setup on an R4E motherboard, using a 5G USB Wi-Fi dongle and running GTX 570s triple SLI with Arkham City - no glitching or noise via USB using HD800s on headphone output at any sampling frequency or bit rate. Win 7 64 bit. So not sure why you are having these problems. It might be worth trying an RMA and if that does not cure it, the issue has to lie elsewhere on the USB side of the computers you are connecting.


 

 How do I go along with trying the RMA?
  I got my E One from local NCIX store in April, should I take it back to them or is there any Asus service center in Canada?


----------



## cssarrow

Started testing out the Essence One for Review.
   
  Finished running with all stock op-amps yesterday. - Added to review
  Currently using running with MUSES01 in LFP and I/V (1 & 2 on guide) the rest, stock op-amps.'
   
  Will try AD797 and OPA627 in certain areas if they can get stable enough.
  So far so good, sound is Fubartastic with the MUSES01 op-amps.
_Very large improvement over the stock, less bass-heavy. More Neutral & 3D Sounding. Larger sound stage and detail._
  (Compared to the NuForce Icon HDP w/ Sigma 11)
   
  OPA627 a little too digital sounding to my ears. will let them burn in.
  AD797 sounded Fantastic, however, very very hot. (Not a good idea for continuous use)
  OPA2132 a little bright, can't say that i hate it though.
   
*Headphones*: _*HE-500, HE-400, AKG K702, Sennheiser HD-650/600, and some cheap Razer Orca*._ (muhaha)
*Cables*:_*Oyaide P-004 & C-004 Power Cable & "Audiophile" Grade USB Cable*_
_*OP-Amps: AD797B, OPA627, NE5532, LM4562/LME49720NA, OPA2132*_
   
  Can't say that i hear any noticeable improvements with the new cables, but it's nice to have well shielded cables. Especially when they're made with silver plated 99.99% OFC wires and 5% silver solder. Calms the soul a little, knowing that the cables being used are not affecting the sounds that are being produced by the Essence One unit.
   
  Would like to try some LME49710HA if i could get my hands on some to place it in the headphone amp directory.
   
  Once i conclude everything, i will post a full review. [with pictures]
   
*Tim*


----------



## ROBSCIX

The AD797 are hot because they are not stable...they are oscillating.  They are a bugger to get stable unless you are used to working with them.
  The LME49710 opamps are excellent for audio, or rather the LME49710HA dual metal can opamps, I have built quite a few of them for members here and for quite a few people in the audio community as a whole.  They are very popular opamps since I started building dual modules.
  I would send you a few to test out with if you didn't live so far away from me.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Started testing out the Essence One for Review.
> 
> AD797 sounded Fantastic, however, very very hot. (Not a good idea for continuous use)
> *Tim*


 
  I use AD 797 at I/V, LM4562 at LPF and LM 49720 HA (metal can) at al other positions. I/V is the only place where AD 797 do not oscillate.
  It is hot by design -  60-65 deg. Cels. so you can touch it with finger for several seconds with no consequences.
  AD 797 has the most natural and 3D sound for me, easy to listen for hours. For more analytic sound with little less 3D and bass LT 1028 is excellent choice at I/V - good for darker headphones.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The AD797 are hot because they are not stable...they are oscillating.  They are a bugger to get stable unless you are used to working with them.
> The LME49710 opamps are excellent for audio, or rather the LME49710HA dual metal can opamps, I have built quite a few of them for members here and for quite a few people in the audio community as a whole.  They are very popular opamps since I started building dual modules.
> I would send you a few to test out with if you didn't live so far away from me.


 
  haha, yes i did notice them oscillating on certain sockets.
   
  The LME49710HA i would love to try. i would get two pairs (four total) and put them on the headphone out side to replace those 49720NA's. I wonder if doing that would improve by much. I would probably end up getting heat sinks for them to keep cool.
   
  It's a shame we don't live close, i would of paid for the item and shipping. Soldering is an easy job, but i'm pretty lazy.
   
  Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I use AD 797 at I/V, LM4562 at LPF and LM 49720 HA (metal can) at al other positions. I/V is the only place where AD 797 do not oscillate.
> It is hot by design -  60-65 deg. Cels. so you can touch it with finger for several seconds with no consequences.
> AD 797 has the most natural and 3D sound for me, easy to listen for hours. For more analytic sound with little less 3D and bass LT 1028 is excellent choice at I/V - good for darker headphones.


 
  Thanks for the info DMarasovic, saves me some trouble testing them.
  I will switch MUSES01 in the I/V sockets with AD797 from time to time and see if it affects sound negatively or in a good way.
   
  AD797 sounds neutral indeed, i like it's 3D transparency/realism very much. Works good with the HD-800 and HE-500. HE-400 not so much. I think the 400 preferred the bass heavy 5532 op amp.
   
   
*Tim*


----------



## cssarrow

*After hours of testing different op-amp setups, i have to say, ASUS was right. the MUSES01 sounded better to me than all the other opamps i've tried (AD797,OPA2132, LM4562, NE5532, OPA627).*
   
*XLR/RCA : LM4562 sounded the best*
*I/V/LFP : MUSES01 sounded the best (OPA627 & AD797B was good too but not enough realism in detail)*
*I/V/LFP Headphone: LME49710HA(s) on BrownDog(s) Adapter was the best. they seem to have less bias current, less offset current, less quiescent current, and less noise density at higher voltage output.*
   
  Luckily my studio friend had some or else i wouldn't have been able to test them out today*. The LME49710HA's i used all has heat-sinks on them.*  Had to raise the TO-99 to DIP8 sockets over the headphone op-amps since they interfere with the volume controller and the headphone connector.
_LME49710HA's Low Voltage Noise Density (2.5nV/Hz) vs LME49720NA's(2.7nV/Hz)_
   
*2x LME49710HA > LME49720NA*
*THD+N is better on the LME49710 in +-15v,+-12v,+-17v,+-2.5v @ 2kΩ & +-15v,+-12v @ 600Ω Texas Instrument Tests. Showing better slope curves on many +-2.5V tests.*
THD+N vs Frequency LME49710 starts lower in distortion than the LME49720, but rises quicker when frequency elevates. (LME49720 in graph terms, has less ripple but at certain voltage test, jolts up in distortion)
   
*C-Media CMI6631, AKM AK4113, ADI ADSP-21261, Texas Instrument PCM 1795's, NS LME49600TS *were all heat-sinked with _anodized aluminum_ and *Prolimatech PK-3* thermal paste. The lower the temperature, the better they measure.
   
  Will get back to you after more listening and op-amp swap testing.
   
*Update:*
  LME49722 seems to have [size=x-small]much lower [/size]*THD+N*[size=x-small] but with an increase in the supply current per amplifier (12.3mA versus 10mA)[/size] versus the LME49720. Its small distortion improvement doesn't justify bias, offset, and quiescent current increase. Would be better off using two LME49710's (since that gives lower distortion, lower current, and dissipates more heat)
   
  6x MUSES01, [2] 2x LME49710HA, and 3x LM4562 seems like a really really solid lineup right now. Godly Sound.
  I'd like to make some adjustments with the XLR/RCA's Buffer op-amps to see if they can get any better, any op-amp suggestions?
   
*Update 2: *Switched back to the NE5532, way too bass heavy, couldn't listen to it longer than 10 minutes. Seperation was very bad, too much boomy bass, transparency lacked like hell. Too digital.
   
*Tim*


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> How do I go along with trying the RMA?
> I got my E One from local NCIX store in April, should I take it back to them or is there any Asus service center in Canada?


 
   
  http://www.service.asus.com/ contact technical support and they should be able to guide you to RMA. I don't work for the RMA dept, but if you hit any snags let me know and I'll forward the info.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> doesn't justify bias, offset, and quiescent current increase. Would be better off using two LME49710's (since that gives lower distortion, lower current, and dissipates more heat)
> 
> 6x MUSES01, [2] 2x LME49710HA, and 3x LM4562 seems like a really really solid lineup right now. Godly Sound.
> I'd like to make some adjustments with the XLR/RCA's Buffer op-amps to see if they can get any better, any op-amp suggestions?
> ...


 
  You can try the opa1612 in the buffer, it gives smoother highs and more focused mids compared to the lme4562


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> You can try the opa1612 in the buffer, it gives smoother highs and more focused mids compared to the lme4562


 
  As of now with the muses, it's already super focused around the mids, highs have an incredible extension, with well centered vocals. Sound separation is off the charts.
   
  I think the OPA1612 would overly smooth/focus something that, to me, is almost near perfection. (I'll work on getting one just to see how it sounds when used on the RCA Output)
   
  Still waiting for ROBSCIX to make me some LME49710HA's on quality adapters/silver solder.
  Will replace the leftover LME4562's with dual mono's instead for minor improvements. metal can op-amps, to some people, sound better. In this scenario it might,but just with the improved current and lower distortion over the LME4562's is already awesome.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

You can easily get one as a free sample from texas instruments. You need to solder it on a soic to dip8 adapter though since it is only available as soic. In would be interesenting if it still works well with the muses op-s. I am using 2107 in i/v and 2132 in lpf and it works well with that combination.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> You can easily get one as a free sample from texas instruments. You need to solder it on a soic to dip8 adapter though since it is only available as soic. In would be interesenting if it still works well with the muses op-s. I am using 2107 in i/v and 2132 in lpf and it works well with that combination.


 
  I'll see if i can get more op-amps, yours specifically.
   
  As of now, listening on the speakers are great with the muses, however, when listening with the HE-400 and HE-500 using the headphone amp, i noticed the "sss" sounds are very fatiguing. They make somewhat of a bright screech compared to my NuForce Icon HDP which warms and smooths it out.
   
  Have to do a burn in now with XLO & Reference Recordings Test And Burn-In CD, hopefully the screech will subside.
   
  Listening on J. River Media Center 18 with ASIO, Latency at 20ms (10ms sounds distorted with bits of static).
   
*Tim*


----------



## HelIish

My essence one was making a heart monitor esque noise with static instead of a beep and repeatedly like a heart beat. I updated and it has not happened yet, anyone else get this ever?


----------



## cssarrow

Been listening between the two lately. (HDP and Essence One)
   
  NuForce Icon HDP Headphone Amp sounds better than the Essence One's. E1 has more power, however doesn't use the power too well with HiFi-Man Headphones.
   
  "sss" sounds a little higher pitched, generally, they sound more fatiguing  then the HDP.
   
  HDP is a little too smooth sounding (Headphone amp)
   
  Thought i'd share that.
  Quote: 





heliish said:


> My essence one was making a heart monitor esque noise with static instead of a beep and repeatedly like a heart beat. I updated and it has not happened yet, anyone else get this ever?


 
  Weird, i never gotten that.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Been listening between the two lately. (HDP and Essence One)
> 
> NuForce Icon HDP Headphone Amp sounds better than the Essence One's. E1 has more power, however doesn't use the power too well with HiFi-Man Headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  Would you , please try to put LM4562 instead of LM49720 at headphone amp position and compare "sss" sounds.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Would you , please try to put LM4562 instead of LM49720 at headphone amp position and compare "sss" sounds.


 

 The "s" sound is a little sharp compared to the HDP on certain songs.
  It's noticeable on both speaker and headphones.
   
  Isn't the LM49720 essentially the same as the LM4562, just renamed?
   
  I will put the stock NE5532 back into the I/V LFP and see if the "s" sound dies down.
  I will also tkeep the MUSES01 in I/V LFP with the LM4562 in the headphone amp section instead of the LME49720.
   
  Wasn't having this problem with the LME49710HA's, but i had to return them to a friend, so i can no longer compare these certain songs with emphasized "s"
   
*Tim*


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> The "s" sound is a little sharp compared to the HDP on certain songs.
> It's noticeable on both speaker and headphones.


 
   Then the cause is in I/V - LPF section.
   
  Quote:


> Isn't the LM49720 essentially the same as the LM4562, just renamed?


 
  According to some sources it is, but the sound is not, maybe because of different manufacturing process or factory ?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> According to some sources it is, but the sound is not, maybe because of different manufacturing process or factory ?


 
  I've switched the I/V and LFP, but the pitch high s is still there. It comes and it goes when switching between headphones. Maybe it's just my ears that's sensitive to the cold season.
   
  The more i listen to the MUSES01, the more i'd say that they're not worth $50. What it seems to do, is address more toward classical music. The highs seem to strike better with violins, bright piano notes, and other instruments like harps and flutes. They seem to only be worth $50 for classical, if not, then i'd say around $40. I can't make it cheaper than that as these op amps are so well at separation and centralizing music vocal.
   
  The AD797 seems very comparable. I would use those if they didn't overheat so easily on the essence one. (good sound and a lot cheaper)
  The Essence One's Headphone Amp is good, not great. I don't think they fully satisfy Hifiman Headphones (especially the HE-500). They work well with the Sennheiser HD600/650, Ultrasone HFI780/2400, and AKG701.
   
  As of this point, it's not much better than the HDP.
  HDP sounds more soft and smooth, it's probably just my preference in sound and should not affect anyone else.
   
  I will compare the Essence One to the NuForce Dac-100 this upcomming week.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> The AD797 seems very comparable. I would use those if they didn't overheat so easily on the essence one. (good sound and a lot cheaper)


 
  As posted before, I use AD797 at I/V for almost a year and they are hot but never overheated.
  E1 case dissipates heat very well, even during hot summer.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> As posted before, I use AD797 at I/V for almost a year and they are hot but never overheated.
> E1 case dissipates heat very well, even during hot summer.


 
  I should of used a different word. It's not overheating, but too warm for my taste i guess.
  With them on the I/V channels are O.K. Only a little worst sounding than the Muses but for a lot cheaper.
   
  The Essence one does dissipate heat well, but my unit is new and the smell is pretty strong.
   
*Tim*


----------



## citraian

I'm thinking of buying the Muses op-amps for the I/V and LPF stages.
  Should I buy something else for the buffer stages or should I keep the default op-amps?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





citraian said:


> I'm thinking of buying the Muses op-amps for the I/V and LPF stages.
> Should I buy something else for the buffer stages or should I keep the default op-amps?


 

 Muses are good.
   
  I use LME49710HA's over the LM4562's (XLR/RCA Buffer) and LME49720 Headphone I/V LFP. They sound better.
   
*Tim*


----------



## ROBSCIX

The dual LME49710HA modules are easily the best unit to build out of that opamp family.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The dual LME49710HA modules are easily the best unit to build out of that opamp family.


 
  I won't be needing the LME49710NA's from you any longer, sorry Robeh.
  I needed them urgently.
   
  Decided to make my own metal cans on 2oz copper pcb, gold plated contacts, and 5% silver solder.
  Put them on the headphone I/V & LFP replacing the LME49720NA's.
  Has to piggy back them on some gold plated DIP IC Sockets as they interfered with the headphone volume, plug socket, and capacitor.
   
  Looks something like this.

   
  Heard a some positive changes compared to the LME49720 via Headphones. I'm liking these metal cans.
  Can't really hear much difference out of the RCA Output as i listen to too many upbeat songs, will switch to classical and listen for changes via Speakers.
   
*Tim*


----------



## citraian

Hey guys, where did you get the MUSES from? I can't see them anywhere. Digikey doesn't have them in stock and it's a non stocking item.
   
  Does somebody have any impressions on the LME49860 for the buffer stage?


----------



## turokrocks

I might get the muse edition, and while checking the asus site, I did not find any drivers/firmware listed for it at:
   
  http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_One_MUSES_Edition/#download
   
   
  So I should have the latest firmware & divers when I get it?
   
  Still shifting between it and the DAC1, so any help is appreciated.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I won't be needing the LME49710NA's from you any longer, sorry Robeh.
> I needed them urgently.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's fine.  Holidays are a busy time, if you needed them ASAP, you should have stated that fact. 
  Anyway, Sound good don't they?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





citraian said:


> Hey guys, where did you get the MUSES from? I can't see them anywhere. Digikey doesn't have them in stock and it's a non stocking item.
> 
> Does somebody have any impressions on the LME49860 for the buffer stage?


 
  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MUSES01/MUSES01-ND/2202385
   
  They only have 1 left now, the last time i checked they had 19.
   
  Ebay sells them but a tad more expensive, if you get 6 on ebay, it's $23.02 more. (That's if considering that digikey ships for $9.69 with a 9.75% tax)
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/320862379536?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  I got mine off ebay and received it in 2 days even though it's from China. I've verified that it's genuine.
   
   
  Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I might get the muse edition, and while checking the asus site, I did not find any drivers/firmware listed for it at:
> 
> http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_One_MUSES_Edition/#download
> 
> ...


 
  Use the same driver as the standard Essence One.
  The only difference between the two is the MUSES01 op amps and gain switcher for IEM Earphones.
   
  After updating, it should look a little like this:

   
  Quote: 





robscix said:


> That's fine.  Holidays are a busy time, if you needed them ASAP, you should have stated that fact.
> Anyway, Sound good don't they?


 
  didn't need them super ASAP or anything, it's just it felt too delayed so i ended up making my own as i needed to finish the review.
   
  They sound good, i like them over the LME49720. Their graphs also measure better which is a uber awesome.
  When using the 49710HA's on loud speaker volumes, there's a slight difference, i can't fully pin point the area of sound that it improves, but i know fully, that it's there. I must have swapped out between the two at least 30 times. On headphones (mainly the HE-500), there's 3x as much difference than on the RCA Output which is also running the 49710HA's over the LME4562.
   
  Once i grasp fully it's improved areas, i'll let everyone know! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you, What is the difference between the USB firmware and the MCU firmware?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you, What is the difference between the USB firmware and the MCU firmware?


 
  The USB F/W is for the Audio Chip. (0111)
  The MCU is for everything else. (1.27)
   
  Have you gotten the Essence One yet? If you haven't, i recommend getting the regular one and buying the muses01 op amps separately.
   
  It will be more cost effective and giving you some leftover NE5532 op amps that can be used to compare to the muses. (NE5532 are very bass heavy/boomy, clouds the vocals, no good instrument/vocal seperation, lacks detail, lacks realism, no 3D sound)
   
*Update: *
  Got my TO-99 Heatsinks for the LME49710HA's. Feels good to have cooler op-amps. Overheated workers do sloppy jobs.
  Can't hear any differences in SQ, but hey, it was only $4 and i feel as if it was money well spent.
   
   
*Tim*


----------



## Averruncus

Have been waiting on my LME49720HAs for well over a month now (shipping affected by sandy), unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll be seeing them anytime soon. I decided to invest in 4x LME49710HAs from cssarrow's suggestion.
   
  Any advise on where I should slot them?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





averruncus said:


> Have been waiting on my LME49720HAs for well over a month now (shipping affected by sandy), unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll be seeing them anytime soon. I decided to invest in 4x LME49710HAs from cssarrow's suggestion.
> 
> Any advise on where I should slot them?


 
  This is where i got them
   
*Do It Yourself:*
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/180728972287?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/261027708584?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/250975939649?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
   
Heatsink not required, but if you do get it, you'll need a dremel to cut off some fins so they do not touch the pcb/each other
_+Time and Silver Solder (pointy soldering iron recommended)_
   
*Buy Them Pre-Made*
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49710HA-X2-Adaptor-/180872434827?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2a1cd6548b
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
   
  Extra DIP8 Socket is needed to raise Headphones op-amp section, not required on RCA Buffer.
   
  If you want, you can have the items sent to me, i can build it for you with 5% Silver Solder and ship it to ya for $5.
   
*Tim*


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Hey there...Just got my Essence and damn is that thing good...But is it supposed to be warm-ish?


----------



## Uusitalo

I'm thinking of buying the E1 Muses in America and using it in Europe. Is there any issue with using a power adapter for the EU? I've read that even power cables could affect the audio quality, so I want to make sure it's okay.

Also, would it be possible to just replace the US power cable with a european one, or is there something in the E1 that expects current from a US cable? If so, is there any particular cable you would recommend?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

There is no differecne in the E1 that is sold in the US, you just have to switch the power supply to 230v at the back. The One comes with a regular power chord so you can use any EU power chord with it. You should not believe too much in expensive power chords because you have to consider that the power comes from the power outlet and  it gets there over some cheap electric copper wires so you would just improve the last 1-2m of a many km-s long chain.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





uusitalo said:


> I'm thinking of buying the E1 Muses in America and using it in Europe. Is there any issue with using a power adapter for the EU? I've read that even power cables could affect the audio quality, so I want to make sure it's okay.
> Also, would it be possible to just replace the US power cable with a european one, or is there something in the E1 that expects current from a US cable? If so, is there any particular cable you would recommend?


 
  Well, you need the EU cable or else it wouldn't work for you.
  All Essence One seems to be the same regardless of where it's sold.
  For example, the one i bought came with three different power cables.
  Power cables are probably going to be the last thing that will affect sound. As long as you're getting enough juice, that's pretty much it.
  Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> There is no differecne in the E1 that is sold in the US, you just have to switch the power supply to 230v at the back. The One comes with a regular power chord so you can use any EU power chord with it. You should not believe too much in expensive power chords because you have to consider that the power comes from the power outlet and  it gets there over some cheap electric copper wires so you would just improve the last 1-2m of a many km-s long chain.


 
  This guy is right.
   
  For ex. If you changed a wall outlet with something like gold/rhodium plated copper contacts and use a $1000 power cord, you'll have to note, that most of the wires, prior to the wall outlet, comes from outside of your home's electrical post, which is then connected to that outlet usually with solid conductor wires which doesn't have the best quality. I don't believe they're even oxygen free copper. Some electricians cut their wires too far back when connecting to the outlet, thus, that exposed copper will then oxidize and give you a weaker signal. To sum it up, you can't turn a lump of crud into a polished gem. It's usually more for aesthetics than sound difference. I find much of it is linked to placebo.
   
  Of course electrical pulses can be interrupted by EMI/RF and quality wires can help with the conduction, but how much of that actually plays in audio quality. Some swear they hear a difference, which is why this topic is so controversial.
   
  However, for me, a two dollar hdmi,usb, or power cord will sounds as good as a two-hundred dollar one.
  Headphone cables, rca, coxial, etc does improve in sound quality based on the materials used.
  
  I've just realized that i was in the computer audio section, so let's stay on topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The stock op-amps are very warm Raven, rolling them out will give vast you improvements.
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

^Agree.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> ^Agree.


 
  How does your Denon AH-D7000 sound with the Essence One Muses?
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> How does your Denon AH-D7000 sound with the Essence One Muses?
> 
> *Tim*


 
   

 It's an amazing combo.  I'm falling in love with these headphones all over again. It just made me realize how good these headphones really are; the bass is amazing, mids are great, and the highs are great as well.  Overall, I'm very pleased with the combo and can't stop listening to it.  Essence One Muses Edition really brings the best out of these headphones.  I got the Essence One Muses yesterday and can't stop listening to it.  It handles every genre of music with ease.  It just adds an overall more realistic sound to music overall.  It's very fun to listen too and detailed as well...my type of flavor .  It's very "musical" and doesn't sound lifeless.
   
  I had the D7000 hooked up to the Essence STX for a long time and bass was kind of thin.  The Essence One Muses brings out the bass and everything else on these headphones.  It brings out what these headphones were meant to sound like.
   
  How are you liking the Essence One Muses so far?


----------



## dynamics

I've actually been curious to try out the HE-500 headphones.  I've been doing research on those lately.  How do they sound with the Essence One Muses?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> It's an amazing combo.  I'm falling in love with these headphones all over again. It just made me realize how good these headphones really are; the bass is amazing, mids are great, and the highs are great as well.  Overall, I'm very pleased with the combo and can't stop listening to it.  Essence One Muses Edition really brings the best out of these headphones.  I got the Essence One Muses yesterday and can't stop listening to it.  It handles every genre of music with ease.  It just adds an overall more realistic sound to music overall.  It's very fun to listen too and detailed as well...my type of flavor .  It's very "musical" and doesn't sound lifeless.
> 
> I had the D7000 hooked up to the Essence STX for a long time and bass was kind of thin.  The Essence One Muses brings out the bass and everything else on these headphones.  It brings out what these headphones were meant to sound like.
> 
> How are you liking the Essence One Muses so far?


 
  I'm glad to hear that you're loving the Essence One Muses. The bass less warm than the NE5532, but it's more of an impact with it's punch. The MUSES01 op-amps really does bring much character to every type of genre that i've listened to as well. They put so much 3D and realism into each song making it the opposite of lifeless.
   
  Like you, I very much like the Essence One. I've experimented with my op-amp changes and only found that changing the RCA and Headphone op-amps with dual mono LME49710HA, were there any "real" improvements. It is very detailed, the 3D sound separation is astounding, it's so lifelike compared to my old NuForce Icon HDP that is a little soft/smooth that made music sounded sugar coated.
   
  Sound Stage is quite nice, it has lots of width and it's depth is far enough to my liking. If you ever want to improve the muses further, metal can op-amps are the way to go.
  Quote: 





dynamics said:


> I've actually been curious to try out the HE-500 headphones.  I've been doing research on those lately.  How do they sound with the Essence One Muses?


 
  They work well, i like them only 5% more than the HE-400 as those cans are more fun when listening to the majority of upbeat songs in my music library.
  They're great sounding, however they bring me a little too close to the stage as i'd like to, the HDP gave me a more breathable distance, but i still like the Sound Quality from the Essence One Muses over the HDP any day of the week. I feel as if i just need to break in the headphones and Essence One a little more as they only have around 30 hours burned into them.
   
  I will conclude my opinion after 100+ hours of burn. As of now it's still floating in the air, thus i can't finish my review (Essence One vs NuForce Icon HDP)
   
  Can't wait for my pure silver hybrid cable to come in for the HE-500/400, hopefully with it, the minor flaws will be no more.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I'm glad to hear that you're loving the Essence One Muses. The bass less warm than the NE5532, but it's more of an impact with it's punch. The MUSES01 op-amps really does bring much character to every type of genre that i've listened to as well. They put so much 3D and realism into each song making it the opposite of lifeless.
> 
> Like you, I very much like the Essence One. I've experimented with my op-amp changes and only found that changing the RCA and Headphone op-amps with dual mono LME49710HA, were there any "real" improvements. It is very detailed, the 3D sound separation is astounding, it's so lifelike compared to my old NuForce Icon HDP that is a little soft/smooth that made music sounded sugar coated.
> 
> ...


 
  Guys, thank you for your heads up.
  Now I am 90% sure what my next purchase will be, guess what????
  Tim, what cable should I order for my HE-500 to amp it with the asus muse? Preferably from Toxic...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, a link or picture of the cable is appreciated


----------



## 4Real

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> They work well, i like them only 5% more than the HE-400 as those cans are more fun when listening to the majority of upbeat songs in my music library.
> 
> 
> *Tim*


 
   
  So would you say that 5% is worth the extra £300 as I'm seriously considering getting the Essence One and HE-400, also how do they sound with the stock op-amps?
   
  Also whats the launch date for the Muses edition or has it already been launched as I cant make up my mind whether to get the muses edition or just upgrade the op-amps with the MUSES01


----------



## Averruncus

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *cssarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ... However they bring me a little too close to the stage as i'd like...


 
   

 +1
  Yea, that has been bugging me too with my HE500/E1 combo. Absolutely fantastic for live recordings, but almost unbearable with aggressive pop/rock songs, it's too "in your face". Maybe it'll be better with closed cans...
   
  Also, thanks for the ebay links! I got the premade ones from Thailand, hopefully they'll be here soon since Thailand is pretty close to my country. Only have 2 pairs though, so I'll probably replace the headphone buffers.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





averruncus said:


> +1
> Yea, that has been bugging me too with my HE500/E1 combo. Absolutely fantastic for live recordings, but almost unbearable with aggressive pop/rock songs, it's too "in your face". Maybe it'll be better with closed cans...
> 
> Also, thanks for the ebay links! I got the premade ones from Thailand, hopefully they'll be here soon since Thailand is pretty close to my country. Only have 2 pairs though, so I'll probably replace the headphone buffers.


 
  Which E1 version you got?


----------



## Pippin76

It seems that Asus has changed the opamps in the standard edition after the release of the Muses edition. This is from Asus' spec page:
   
  Operational amplifier:

 ●Balanced/Un-balanced I/V:4 x NE5532
 ●Balanced/ Un-balanced LFP: 2 x NE5532
 ●Balanced /Un-balanced Buffer: 3 x NE5532
 ●Headphone: 1 x I/V: NE5532; 1 x LPF: NE5532; Current Buffer: LME49600
  
  Mine, which I bought in May, only had Ne5532's in the I/V and LFP stages, the rest are LM4562/LME49720. I replaced the 5532's with 4562's a couple of weeks ago, with good results.
   
  I'm thinking about doing as Cssarrow and installing LME49710HA in headphone stage.


----------



## Averruncus

The base set. I've replaced the headphone buffer with LME49720NAs and LFP with OPA2134s.


----------



## citraian

Hey guys,
   
  Did any of you try the MUSES 02's or know how do they compare against MUSES 01?


----------



## oscarboxi

Quote: 





citraian said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Did any of you try the MUSES 02's or know how do they compare against MUSES 01?


 
   
  I too am interested, I have read you registered today after much through Google translator, since I of anything English.
   
  I also want to take this opportunity to ask if you know if there is a problem in operational use in your manual recommends Asus alternatively in any of the positions of the Essence One example that I can use the asus opa2111 recommended in all phases of the Asus?
   
  Sorry I can not understand myself better with you because of language, because I think a great community with a lot of information.
   
   
  Original text.
   
   A mi tambien me interesa, me he registrado hoy despues de leeros mucho a traves  del traductor de Google, ya que yo de ingles nada.
   
  Tambien quiero aprovechar para preguntaros si sabeis si hay algun problema en usar los operacionales que Asus recomienda en su manual como alternativa, en cualquiera de las distintas posiciones de la Essence One, ejemplo, puedo usar el opa2111 que asus recomienda en todas las fases de la Asus?
   
  Siento no poder entenderme mejor con vosotros debido al idioma, ya que os considero una gran comunidad con mucha informacion.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Guys, thank you for your heads up.
> Now I am 90% sure what my next purchase will be, guess what????
> Tim, what cable should I order for my HE-500 to amp it with the asus muse? Preferably from Toxic...
> 
> ...


 
  If it's the Essence One then it will be solid.
  A Taiwan computer manufacturer (5th largest) started to target the audio industry, of course with their enormous capital resources along with the fact that so many electronic parts come from Taiwan, they'll be able to make a high quality parts for cheap. Let's not forget they're known for making motherboard PCB's, so to create a multilayer audio pcb, they're already on top of the hill. They have their own Audio Team of engineers for creating audio equipment. Thus, they do not talk to other teams, and focus mainly on the job at hand
   
  I've used regular OFC (Canare), Silver Plated OFC, OCC Copper, OCC Silver Plated Copper, and is about to use a Pure Silver Cable (much like the silver dragon and silver poison).
  It's all thanks to HeadphoneLounge.
   
  I have a few OCC Copper and OCC SPC left for the HE-500, so if you'd like, we can work something out.
  To me, i've noticed OCC headphone cables sound better than the standard stock cables. (not that subtle at all)
  Quote: 





4real said:


> So would you say that 5% is worth the extra £300 as I'm seriously considering getting the Essence One and HE-400, also how do they sound with the stock op-amps?
> 
> Also whats the launch date for the Muses edition or has it already been launched as I cant make up my mind whether to get the muses edition or just upgrade the op-amps with the MUSES01


 
  I would say it's worth it if your music genre is more focused on vocals and instruments.
  For  music listeners like me who prefer the upbeat hip hop and pop songs, the HE-400 does better, HOWEVER, sometimes i like to hear the vocals more forward and separated, which is where the HE-500 comes in. Thus when i want to have fun flare, i'll use the HE-400 and when i feel less energetic i'll grab the HE-500. That is why i chose to own both. instead of selling one off.
   
  The HE-400 comes very close to the HE-500 when you're using a high quality wire. The bass and treble Improves greatly, so you're getting the best of both worlds.
   
  The HE-400 is already bass heavy, so with the stock cheap $1 op amp (NE5532) the bass is very boomy and harsh when using the HE-400. I'm pretty sure they were made to be swapped out right away, or for those computer gamers who knows nothing and think that sound quality requires a "fat" bass and nothing more. This boomy bass helps add a little more realism in games, specifically for gunfires and bomb sounds. I've found that the running sound, closing a vehicle door, etc sounds extremely fake with the NE5532.
   
  Muses has already been launched, if you go back 3-6 pages, one of the ASUS members gave a buying like, you'll also noticed that i recommend buying the Original Essence One and Muses01's separately as it is cheaper. Grab the MUSES Edition if you ever feel as though you'll be using In Ear Earphones with them, the MUSES Edition has a gain switch so it will not out blast IEM's.
  Quote: 





averruncus said:


> +1
> Yea, that has been bugging me too with my HE500/E1 combo. Absolutely fantastic for live recordings, but almost unbearable with aggressive pop/rock songs, it's too "in your face". Maybe it'll be better with closed cans...
> 
> Also, thanks for the ebay links! I got the premade ones from Thailand, hopefully they'll be here soon since Thailand is pretty close to my country. Only have 2 pairs though, so I'll probably replace the headphone buffers.


 
  WOW, REALLY? You have the same problem as me! I thought i was just the one, no matter how many times i've listened (must be 100x) the aggressive pop/rock are always too forward, but live recordings does give you center stage seats which are, like you said, AWESOME.
   
  I've noticed the LME49710HA improves it a bit, maybe because they're metal can edition which are, like what the creators say, just plain better. They have less current and noise/distortion than the LME49720NA that are in the headphone buffer so that may attribute to something.
   
  Do not forget to buy the gold pin DIP8 sockets, you need to raise your adapter higher as it will hit your components on the Essence One PCB.
  Also use the gold pin DIP8 sockets that you buy instead of the one that comes with the Thailand's as those are not fully gold plated.
  Quote: 





pippin76 said:


> It seems that Asus has changed the opamps in the standard edition after the release of the Muses edition. This is from Asus' spec page:
> 
> Operational amplifier:
> 
> ...


 
  I thought it was going to be like that too, until they came and the XLR/RCA were LM4562's, Headphone were LME49720NA's.
  I have the LME49710HA's in both the headphone stage and RCA buffer. XLR i don't use as my speakers do not have that input.
  Quote: 





citraian said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Did any of you try the MUSES 02's or know how do they compare against MUSES 01?


 
  I wonder how they sound like, i doubt they will sound as good as the MUSES01 since ASUS has already tried both and preferred the 01.
  It would be nice if someone gave it a shot, too bad it's $300 just for a sneak peek.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

There is also this site where you can buy the muses 01 for 18$, that makes an upgrade a lot cheaper.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> There is also this site where you can buy the muses 01 for 18$, that makes an upgrade a lot cheaper.


 
  Aliexpress is known for many sellers making fake items.
   
  I doubt that comes from New Japan Radio Co.
   
  Even ASUS states that the cheapest (authentic) they're found was $50 on Digikey.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

In this case it is pretty expensive to get 6 muses op-s right now since digikey has only 1 in stock and if you want more you have to order at least 105 more.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> In this case it is pretty expensive to get 6 muses op-s right now since digikey has only 1 in stock and if you want more you have to order at least 105 more.


 
  Yes, if you're really serious about rolling to MUSE01, just wait until digikey has more.
   
  MUSES01 and LME49720/10 emphasizes more on mid and high frequencies.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I have soldered capacitors on the power supply pins of the OP-s. This should give them more stable and cleaner power. I did notice a difference in sound, it became clearer with better separation. The results of this mod will be pretty different depending on the sensibility of the OP on the power supply but it is very cheap so i think it is worth trying out. I also changed the power supply capacitors to Panasonic FC.


----------



## cssarrow

Nice mod, what Capacitor uF did you use on the power regulator pcb? I did notice when i opened it that it that the capacitors wasn't so good at soothing ripple.
   
  I will try the power supply capacitor mod but i don't like tampering with my op-amps because i use heatsinks on them so i won't be doing those.

*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I used the orinal capacities because using bigger capacitors can have a negative effect on the power regulator circuit. So i just changed them for higher quality ones.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I used the orinal capacities because using bigger capacitors can have a negative effect on the power regulator circuit. So i just changed them for higher quality ones.


 

 Ah really, that's what i would of done too.
  Did you compare the leak current, ripple current, etc to the stock capacitors?
   
  How much did the capacitors cost you? (Panasonic FC) 
  If you could let me know the uF of the stock capacitors so that i can buy them without having to open my Essence One. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Sadly i don´t hahe the measuring equipment so i coudn´t measure the difference. I can tell you the capacitor types you need though: 
   
1x 2200µF 16v
2x 1500µF 25v
2x 330µF 25V 
1x 470µF 16v 
   
It cost me around 5€, so it was a pretty cheap mod as well. I had to leave the capacitor legs a bit longer because the legs are further apart on the Panasonic one-s, also the smaller capacitors are wider so they don´t quite fit next to each other. But this should not be an issue.
   
Or if you mean compare the capacitors by technical sheet, it is also not really possible because the original one-s are some OEM types without branding.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Sadly i don´t hahe the measuring equipment so i coudn´t measure the difference. I can tell you the capacitor types you need though:
> 
> 1x 2200µF 16v
> 2x 1500µF 25v
> ...


 

 Yeah that's what i meant, the OEM. That's a shame 
   
  Thanks for letting me know the µF and voltage.

 Based on this chart: http://www-images.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/ABA0000CE22.pdf
   
  I went with the Panasonic FC with the highest ripple current.
  http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=EEU-FC1E331virtualkey66720000virtualkey667-EEU-FC1E331
  http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=EEU-FC1E152Svirtualkey66720000virtualkey667-EEU-FC1E152S
  http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=EEU-FC1C222Svirtualkey66720000virtualkey667-EEU-FC1C222S
  http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=EEU-FC1C471virtualkey66720000virtualkey667-EEU-FC1C471
   
  I hope i got the lead spacing right, if not, i can just mod/fit it in with hot glue, no big deal.
   
  While im at it, im going to buy some capacitors to replace the Chengx and Yihcon capacitors in my Audioengine A5+'s.
   
*Tim*


----------



## raja

Try out LM6172 for I/V with MUSES01 in LPF and buffer. Solder 0.1uf stacked film caps between pins 4&8 (+&-) of the I/V opamps - try ebay for Siemens stacked film caps, you don't need large capacitance, just something to decouple at HF.
   
   
  Class a bias could be worth exploring for heavy mod fanatics.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





raja said:


> Try out LM6172 for I/V with MUSES01 in LPF and buffer. Solder 0.1uf stacked film caps between pins 4&8 (+&-) of the I/V opamps - try ebay for Siemens stacked film caps, you don't need large capacitance, just something to decouple at HF.
> 
> 
> Class a bias could be worth exploring for heavy mod fanatics.


 
  May i ask what the 0.1 uF stacked film caps do?
   
  Enlighten me good sir.
   
  And do you mean these ones? http://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-SIEMENS-EPCOS-Capacitor-0-1uF-100V-FILMCAP-/220770842421?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item3366f7b735
   
  As for the LM6172, i'm broke now, don't think i'll want to try any more op-amps for awhile.
   
*Tim*


----------



## raja

You want a low impedance at HF, that's why a small value. The idea is to lower the power supply impedance at frequencies where the regulator has a high impedance.  Any time one uses a high slew rate opamp such as the Lm6172 or even the sensitive AD797, HF decoupling directly on the opamp pins is a good idea- especially on socketed op-amps, where socket inductance is a factor. 
   
   
  Those or these will do (these will be bigger so maybe go for the lower voltage, and shipping is also a consideration):
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-SIEMENS-0-1UF-100nF-400V-HI-END-STACKED-FILM-CAPACITORS-FOR-AUDIO-/170706857190?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27beebe


----------



## 4Real

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I would say it's worth it if your music genre is more focused on vocals and instruments.
> For  music listeners like me who prefer the upbeat hip hop and pop songs, the HE-400 does better, HOWEVER, sometimes i like to hear the vocals more forward and separated, which is where the HE-500 comes in. Thus when i want to have fun flare, i'll use the HE-400 and when i feel less energetic i'll grab the HE-500. That is why i chose to own both. instead of selling one off.
> 
> The HE-400 comes very close to the HE-500 when you're using a high quality wire. The bass and treble Improves greatly, so you're getting the best of both worlds.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the reply.
   
  I also have a wide taste in music so I'm still no closer to a decision as far as HE-400 vs HE-500 is concerned lol
   
  I'm really tempted to get the Essence One and then upgrade the op-amps to Muses01's but I do have some IEM's so having the gain switch might actually come in handy.
   
  Really hope they will soon give a UK release date for the Muses Edition, hopefully it will be around the same priced as in the US and not inflated for the UK market.
   
  On cables for the HE-400 do you have any recommendations.
   
  BTW I did read this whole thread and other threads on the HE's so I'm on information overload


----------



## cssarrow

Well i hope they're not so expensive for you.
   
  Since you have IEM's, then going the MUSES Edition route will be more worthwhile.

 As for the cables, i've given you a pm.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

There is also an interesting capacitor mod on this chinese site


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> There is also an interesting capacitor mod on this chinese site


 
  Very grateful for the thread, thanks a whole bunch.
   
*Tim*


----------



## qqexpress

What are some cheap op amps that you guys recommend that would help improve the sound quality of the E1. I have the original version when it was first released. 
   
  I don't want to spend the amount of money on Muses 01 as I have seen they cost $50/ea ?
   
  Unless you guys have a website that sells it for cheaper. 
   
  But yeah, if there are any recommendations for replacing the original op amps, i would love to hear it.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





qqexpress said:


> What are some cheap op amps that you guys recommend that would help improve the sound quality of the E1. I have the original version when it was first released.
> 
> I don't want to spend the amount of money on Muses 01 as I have seen they cost $50/ea ?
> 
> ...


 
  There's none cheaper than $50, if you do find them cheaper, then they're fake.
   
  I recommend the OPA2132 and LME49720HA, 2x LME49710HA on Adapters would be even better.
   
  I've tried the OPA627 and AD797, both a pretty good. Everything else i didn't find to my liking as much.
   
  As of now i only use MUSES01 and LME49710HA's.
  Switching out Power Supply Capacitor with Panasonic FC, and Nichicon KT with KA.
   
  Will post pictures once im done along with summary of improves (if any).
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

A cheap way for tuning is to get free samples from texas instruments, for example the 2107 i/v and the 2132 buffer should already be an improvement over the stock one-s and you can get it for free. You can get the opa 1612 for the buffer for smoother highs. If you want to know more about the free sample thing you can write me a PM because it would be too off topic here.


----------



## ionicle

Does the Essence One have a line-out? I am planning on purchasing a RX MK3-B portable amp from ALO, as a start to building my portable rig which will also include a CLAS -dB. For the time being though, can I take out the signal from the E1, using it as a DAC only, and use the RX as a better external headphone amplifier than the one that's already provided in the E1?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, line out.


----------



## cssarrow

Edited


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MUSES01/MUSES01-ND/2202385
> 
> They only have 1 left now, the last time i checked they had 19.
> 
> ...


 

 I can't get the F/W update to 1.27 to connect.   When I originally got my E1 I did a firmware update and it worked fine.  I updated the audio chip and USB without a problem but can't get the 1.27 to connect..it tries to connect for a minute or so and then quits saying it can't connect.  The motherboard USB's are 1.1/2.0 and worked previously with the first update.   I am running AD797BR's in 1/V and 4720HA's everywhere else... (great opamp combo by the way) would that be the problem?  Haven't done any cap upgrades or bypassing but will do that next.   Welcome any ideas to get my E1 firmware to 1.27 ...  Currently my info screen is as above except 1.25 F/W instead of 1.27.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> I can't get the F/W update to 1.27 to connect.   When I originally got my E1 I did a firmware update and it worked fine.  I updated the audio chip and USB without a problem but can't get the 1.27 to connect..it tries to connect for a minute or so and then quits saying it can't connect.  The motherboard USB's are 1.1/2.0 and worked previously with the first update.   I am running AD797BR's in 1/V and 4720HA's everywhere else... (great opamp combo by the way) would that be the problem?  Haven't done any cap upgrades or bypassing but will do that next.   Welcome any ideas to get my E1 firmware to 1.27 ...  Currently my info screen is as above except 1.25 F/W instead of 1.27.


 
  You mean 49720HA? I don't see why that would be a problem as AD797 is in the I/V which i found to be the best spot for it. anywhere else should be bypassed.
   
  Did you download the install tool along with the firmware? there should be a install pdf/guide that tells you, you must press and hold upsampling & mute at the same time until the light flashes three times and turns solid. Afterwards you will try and connect to the Essence One where it will then show "connected"
   
  I was stuck on this as it wouldn't connect after 10 tries. I uninstalled/reinstalled the driver, unplugged/replugged the usb cable and it then connected.
   
  Give it a try.
   
*Tim*


----------



## qqexpress

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I was switching my LME49710HA's, put them on the ground, and the family dog took them somewhere without me knowing.
> 
> That is one ninja dog. Using LM4562's now while i look for them, if not, i have to re-buy/re-make. hopefully he doesn't chew on them.
> 
> ...


 
  Hey there, you recommended specific op amps to me before but I was wondering exactly where you had placed them on the circuit board. If its not too much to ask, could you possible show where you put each one with arrows.Thank you!


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> You mean 49720HA? I don't see why that would be a problem as AD797 is in the I/V which i found to be the best spot for it. anywhere else should be bypassed.
> 
> Did you download the install tool along with the firmware? there should be a install pdf/guide that tells you, you must press and hold upsampling & mute at the same time until the light flashes three times and turns solid. Afterwards you will try and connect to the Essence One where it will then show "connected"
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I did mean 49720HA, sorry typo.   I tried at least a dozen times to get it to update....changed USB's, redownloaded the update, different times of day, etc.  Nothing works to get it to connect.  I am following the update instructions to the letter .... which I did for the very first update when I first got the unit but that update was done with the original OEM opamps.   Was hoping that might be the problem.   I'll try a few more times and may even go back to OEM configuration to see what that does.  Thanks for the reply.
  John


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> Yes I did mean 49720HA, sorry typo.   I tried at least a dozen times to get it to update....changed USB's, redownloaded the update, different times of day, etc.  Nothing works to get it to connect.  I am following the update instructions to the letter .... which I did for the very first update when I first got the unit but that update was done with the original OEM opamps.   Was hoping that might be the problem.   I'll try a few more times and may even go back to OEM configuration to see what that does.  Thanks for the reply.
> John


 
   
   
  Hi,
   
  I'll pass this on to the test engineers and see what they say. Out of curiosity, have you tried with the Essence One drivers both installed and uninstalled?


----------



## 4Real

@ASUSXONAR
   
  Can you tell me when the Muses Edition will be available to purchase in the UK.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





qqexpress said:


> Hey there, you recommended specific op amps to me before but I was wondering exactly where you had placed them on the circuit board. If its not too much to ask, could you possible show where you put each one with arrows.Thank you!


 
  Sure,  Here are a picture that may help you.
   

   
   

 LM4562 = LME49720 = 49710HAx2.
   
  LM might sound different as i've heard, they're made in a new facility.
  Two 49710 should have lower noise/sound better than a single 49720. I prefer "HA" (Metal Canned) Op-amps.
  They sound better.
   
  OPA627 is more warm and less thin sounding than the LME's. However i like the LME's more for their detail, clarity, and sound stage. Their highs, to me, are less fatiguing than the 627's.
   
   
  Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> Yes I did mean 49720HA, sorry typo.   I tried at least a dozen times to get it to update....changed USB's, redownloaded the update, different times of day, etc.  Nothing works to get it to connect.  I am following the update instructions to the letter .... which I did for the very first update when I first got the unit but that update was done with the original OEM opamps.   Was hoping that might be the problem.   I'll try a few more times and may even go back to OEM configuration to see what that does.  Thanks for the reply.
> John


 
  I don't think the OEM op-amps were the issue, highly doubt they have some sort of detection tool in the unit. When i first got the units i replaced the NE5532 right away with MUSES01 then updated, so that shouldn't be the case.
   
  Try uninstalling it completely, delete all sound driver related files/folders, Turn off the Essence One, unplug the USB Cable and restart your computer. Once you're in windows, plug the USB cable in, hold mute and upsampling together. Once the three red lights has stopped flashes and is fully solid (after 2 seconds), let go of the two buttons. Start the tool as administrator and press connect.
   
  That's the best i got, if it doesn't work, you'll just have to pull a miracle like i did.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'll pass this on to the test engineers and see what they say. Out of curiosity, have you tried with the Essence One drivers both installed and uninstalled?


 

 I tried each of the USB ports on the back of the computer with no luck and then tried the USB on card reader in the front of the computer and after a couple of tries it connected and I got an update to 1.27.   I'm pretty sure the card reader is a USB1.1 ... maybe that's why it connected although it should have connected on the other USB ports as the mother board only supports USB 1 and 2.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> I tried each of the USB ports on the back of the computer with no luck and then tried the USB on card reader in the front of the computer and after a couple of tries it connected and I got an update to 1.27.   I'm pretty sure the card reader is a USB1.1 ... maybe that's why it connected although it should have connected on the other USB ports as the mother board only supports USB 1 and 2.


 
   
   
  Thanks for letting me know. I'll pass this info on to the team.


----------



## jahaugum

I would like to modify my E1 to decrease the headphone gain. Just like the Muses edition gain jumper. This in order to get rid of unbalanced levels in the low range of the volume control when used with my 32Ohm headphones.
   
  Can somebody here guide me on how this could be done? Soldering skills is not a problem.


----------



## Sk1n5

cssarrow, in your picture the two op amps next to the headphone out are both for the buffer stage of the headphone out. It's split out to handle left and right channels individually.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> cssarrow, in your picture the two op amps next to the headphone out are both for the buffer stage of the headphone out. It's split out to handle left and right channels individually.


 
  Whoops, i already knew that but accidentally did I/V and LFP for some reason! LOL.
   
  Thanks for spotting the problem, i don't know where my mind wanders some times.
   





   
  Does anyone know what kind of WIMA Film Capacitors are used on the Essence One?
  MKS, MKP, FKS, or FKP?
   
*Tim*


----------



## pao_revolt

anyone know where can i get Muses Edition in USA?, can't find any available. Is the new revision coming out or it just limited edition?
   
  thank you


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> anyone know where can i get Muses Edition in USA?, can't find any available. Is the new revision coming out or it just limited edition?
> 
> thank you


 
http://www.excaliberpc.com/622377/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses.html
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Whoops, i already knew that but accidentally did I/V and LFP for some reason! LOL.
> 
> Thanks for spotting the problem, i don't know where my mind wanders some times.
> 
> ...


 
  Apparently they are FKP2 and FKS2.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Apparently they are FKP2 and FKS2.


 
  Is the MKS better than the FKP/FPS?
   
  i don't think i'll get any sonic improvements upgrading those.
   
  Film resistors just seems like they do what they're suppose to do.
   
  Unless you talk about the super large capacitor ones that are used in speaker crossovers, then it's clearly a large difference.
  Would the same thing affect surface mount film capacitors?
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Is the MKS better than the FKP/FPS?
> 
> i don't think i'll get any sonic improvements upgrading those.
> 
> ...


 
  The MKS ist metalized polyester and it has better technical specifications than the FKS.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> The MKS ist metalized polyester and it has better technical specifications than the FKS.


 
  oh, you're right.
   
  I just checked.
   
  FKS/FKP = Film/Foil Capacitor
  MKS/MKP = Metallized Capacitors
   
_"For metallized capacitors a thin metal coating serving as electrode is applied to the plastic film. This method makes it possible to produce capacitors with a very favourable capacitance/volume ratio. The WIMA MKS 4, with 220 µF/50 VDC, offers the highest capacitance rating in the WIMA range. A further specific characteristic of metallized capacitors is the excellent self-healing ability. In the case of an electric breakdown the applied metal layer evaporates. The affected area is isolated and the capacitor continues to function properly."_
   
_"The advantage of this method of construction, besides the improved mechanical stability of the component on the board, is the excellent electrical contact reliability."_
   
  That sold it for me, i will grab some of the MKS/MKP for my Essence One MOD.
   
  I decided to go for WIMA MKP4 Polypropylene (PP) instead of Polyester after doing a little bit of research.
   
*Required caps:*
  (8) 2200/100 (taking a guess 2200pF/100V/ 5% Tolerance)
  (4) 0.022/100 (taking a guess 0.022uF/100V/10% Tolerance)
  (8) 8200/100 (taking a guess 8200pF/100V/10% Tolerance)
  (6) 1800/100(taking a guess 1800pF/100V/5% Tolerance)
   
  Tolerance found behind the cap.
  PCM is 5mm.
   
  Apparently MPK2 caps are "obsolete" on mouser. hmm...
   
*Tim*


----------



## pao_revolt

thank you,
   
  ordered


----------



## pao_revolt

guys,
   
  i'm planing to use this is as a DAC, so which op-amp should i switch?
   
  thank you


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> guys,
> 
> i'm planing to use this is as a DAC, so which op-amp should i switch?
> 
> thank you


 
  All i/v, all lpf and the buffer op depending what you use, xlr or rca.


----------



## cssarrow

pao_revolt said:


> guys,
> 
> i'm planing to use this is as a DAC, so which op-amp should i switch?
> 
> thank you




Do you not read anything prior to your posts.

Scroll up the page a little, there are some op amps (in pictures), that i recommend in certain sockets.

*Tim*


----------



## pao_revolt

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> All i/v, all lpf and the buffer op depending what you use, xlr or rca.


 
  XLR, sir
   

   
  is this normal?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> XLR, sir


 
  I/V and LFP will affect all outputs.
   
  Your two XLR buffer opamps will affect that output solely.


----------



## cssarrow

I ran into some bad luck.
   
  Bought some Panasonic FR to replace the Essence One's Power Supply Capacitors, but found out it's already using the same one!
   
  Grrrr! Well, i guess i'll keep these caps in case one of them blows up in the future or if anyone needs one.
   
   

   
  The Nichicon Audio KA came in as well.
  I used the 50V, they're larger.
  Anything else that is larger than these capacitors won't fit.
   
   

   
  You can see that they're larger. I also have one Nichicon R7 Solid Capacitor to replace the magenta colored Sanyo 100uF/16V Solid Capacitor.
   
*Tim*


----------



## pao_revolt

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I/V and LFP will affect all outputs.
> 
> Your two XLR buffer opamps will affect that output solely.


 

 thank you so much for the answer,
   
  since i have MUSES Edition i should only replace the XLR buffer then.
   
  now did you see my screenshot? why my F/W version is blank? but the unit is working i am using it right now.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> thank you so much for the answer,
> 
> since i have MUSES Edition i should only replace the XLR buffer then.
> 
> now did you see my screenshot? why my F/W version is blank? but the unit is working i am using it right now.


 
   
  I have no idea, have you updated the MCU?
  Go to ASUS > Xonar Essence One on their website and download the MCU Firmware and Update Tool.
   
  There is instructions there, make sure you update it.
  Do not search for driver/firmwares on the Muses Page, there are none.
   
*Tim*


----------



## pao_revolt

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I have no idea, have you updated the MCU?
> Go to ASUS > Xonar Essence One on their website and download the MCU Firmware and Update Tool.
> 
> There is instructions there, make sure you update it.
> ...


 
   


 thank you tim
   

   
  i got this error also tried on my laptop same error.
   
  please help
   
  thanks


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> thank you tim
> 
> 
> i got this error also tried on my laptop same error.
> ...


 
  Did you make sure to hold Upsampling and Mute at the same time until the three red lights stopped flashing and turned solid before connecting?
   
  If that still didn't work, plug your USB cord to a different socket on the computer. (Try and not do it on a USB 3.0 Port).
   
*Tim*


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> thank you tim
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When trying a new USB or even on the current USB, click "OK" and click "connect" again without doing anything else.  I had to do this several times before it connected


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I ran into some bad luck.
> 
> Bought some Panasonic FR to replace the Essence One's Power Supply Capacitors, but found out it's already using the same one!
> 
> ...


 

 So you think they will fit?   The KA 50v 220ufs are 10mm diameter and the OEM's are about 8mm and I was concerned about them fitting on the board along with all the other value caps as those KA's are also larger.   I was looking at using Nichicon FG's but with the OEM voltages (220uf 35v FG, 47uf 63v, etc) and they too are oversize but the same diameters as the KA 50v caps.  I thought I'd hold off on my order until we see how you make out with installation.  Keep us posted as to how they fit.  Thanks, John


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> So you think they will fit?   The KA 50v 220ufs are 10mm diameter and the OEM's are about 8mm and I was concerned about them fitting on the board along with all the other value caps as those KA's are also larger.   I was looking at using Nichicon FG's but with the OEM voltages (220uf 35v FG, 47uf 63v, etc) and they too are oversize but the same diameters as the KA 50v caps.  I thought I'd hold off on my order until we see how you make out with installation.  Keep us posted as to how they fit.  Thanks, John


 
  Please don't quote pictures.
   
  If you looked at the board, the OEM 8mm has 1-2mm to spare, so 10mm will fit if if you lean them a little.
   
  The Nichicon KA 25/35V are the same size as the Nichicon KT. It should have better ripple current, leak, etc because of the larger size/higher voltage specification.
  The "Audio" capacitors are around 12.5mm in diameter. (Nichicon FG,KZ | Elna Silmic II,Cerafine | Rubycon BG)
   
  You can go with either Panasonic FM, FR, or Nichicon KA (25/35/50V) as an improvement over the KT capacitors.
 FR, FM, FC are more of "general purpose" capacitors, that was why was i went with something made for audio (Nichicon KA)
   
  From the looks of it, the only place possible to fit the high end capacitors (12.5mm) are the RCA capacitors.
  There are two of them behind the RCA Out, which i chose Elna Silmic II as my replacement.
  Still, i got fourteen 220uF 50V (complete set) to see how they compare to the silmic after 100 hours of burn in.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I also just realized that i also had the panasonic fr in the power supply. Changing them to panasonic fc was pretty pointless. Why don´t panasonic use any branding on the fr.
   
  Has anyone found a good lpf op in combination with the ad797br in the i/v? I ordered some ad797br-s and looking for good op-s for the lpf.


----------



## HelIish

I get an electronic/metallic sounding echo that will repeat until i pause the sound of source. Anyone know the issue? I have tried to disable all other audio/microphone devices and still nothing. It will never happen right away and is not consistent,
   
  Edit: Think the culprit may have been an audioquest USB cable I picked up with it as I needed a longer one then the one it came with. testing with the default one (but its not consistent so I will only know if it doesnt happen for more then 2 days) now and returning the AQ one ($40's back to me, I bought one of those fancy ones as for the length I needed I figured I might as well).


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I also just realized that i also had the panasonic fr in the power supply. Changing them to panasonic fc was pretty pointless. Why don´t panasonic use any branding on the fr.
> 
> Has anyone found a good lpf op in combination with the ad797br in the i/v? I ordered some ad797br-s and looking for good op-s for the lpf.


 
   
  I realized it after comparing the two because i thought they looked extremely similar.
  Turns out there was an FR right next to 105°.
  Switching it to Panasonic FC is probably a downgrade. That is, unless you need some added resistance, i can't see why you'll need it though as FR/FM replaces FC.
   
  I think every capacitor brand should do a better job labeling their products. 
   
   



heliish said:


> I get an electronic/metallic sounding echo that will repeat until i pause the sound of source. Anyone know the issue? I have tried to disable all other audio/microphone devices and still nothing. It will never happen right away and is not consistent,
> 
> Edit: Think the culprit may have been an audioquest USB cable I picked up with it as I needed a longer one then the one it came with. testing with the default one (but its not consistent so I will only know if it doesnt happen for more then 2 days) now and returning the AQ one ($40's back to me, I bought one of those fancy ones as for the length I needed I figured I might as well).


 

   
  Besides the custom usb cable, are you using anything else that's different than a default setup?
   
  Try pressing on upsampling while your music is playing and turning it off, muting it, etc. Perhaps it would go away after burn in.
  If not, just return it for a new one.
   
*Tim*


----------



## HelIish

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Besides the custom usb cable, are you using anything else that's different than a default setup?
> 
> Try pressing on upsampling while your music is playing and turning it off, muting it, etc. Perhaps it would go away after burn in.
> If not, just return it for a new one.
> ...


 
  The power cord as it didnt come with a North American one, but it hasnt happened since I started using the default usb cable


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





heliish said:


> The power cord as it didnt come with a North American one, but it hasnt happened since I started using the default usb cable


 

 Seems like they made you a bad usb cable.
   
*Tim*


----------



## pao_revolt

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Did you make sure to hold Upsampling and Mute at the same time until the three red lights stopped flashing and turned solid before connecting?
> 
> If that still didn't work, plug your USB cord to a different socket on the computer. (Try and not do it on a USB 3.0 Port).
> 
> *Tim*


 

 Hey Tim,
   
  i got it updated and passed
   
  but when i click the little icon on the tray, it still gave me blank on F/W
   
  the unit work perfectly should i return it? or just deal with it?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> Hey Tim,
> 
> i got it updated and passed
> 
> ...


 
   
  Try uninstall the driver, restarting your pc, re-updating the F/W, and re-installing the driver.
   
  All three boxes should have numbers inside.
   
*Tim*


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I realized it after comparing the two because i thought they looked extremely similar.
> Turns out there was an FR right next to 105°.
> Switching it to Panasonic FC is probably a downgrade. That is, unless you need some added resistance, i can't see why you'll need it though as FR/FM replaces FC.
> 
> *Tim*


 
   1500uf 25v  FR ripple=2600, FM=3190
   2200uf 16v  FR ripple=2600, FM=3190
     470uf 16v FR ripple=950, FM=1290
     330uf 25v FR ripple=950, FM=1240
  All the FM's are the exact same diameter and lead spacing as the FR's but with greater ripple.
  John


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> 1500uf 25v  FR ripple=2600, FM=3190
> 2200uf 16v  FR ripple=2600, FM=3190
> 470uf 16v FR ripple=950, FM=1290
> 330uf 25v FR ripple=950, FM=1240
> ...


 
  I've already stated that FR/FM is better than the FC.
  FC has more resistance, and doesn't do good in this application with less ripple current than the two.
   
  FR has a lower and higher uF range than the FM.
  FR has slightly (barely) more ESR than the FM, and that's only for certain nominal caps.
  FR has twice as much "endurance" life span than the FM.
   
  Doesn't matter if the FM can resist a higher ripple current, the FR for this mini regulated psu pcb is good enough and even with lower ripple current specifications, was made to last twice as long as the FM.
   
*FR  > FM > FC*
   
*Tim*


----------



## pao_revolt

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Try uninstall the driver, restarting your pc, re-updating the F/W, and re-installing the driver.
> 
> All three boxes should have numbers inside.
> 
> *Tim*


 

 reinstall driver did the trick
   
  thanks tim


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





pao_revolt said:


> reinstall driver did the trick
> 
> thanks tim


 
  Glad you got it working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
*Tim*


----------



## HelIish

Would I be able use my essence STX to send a virtual 7.1 signal to my essence ONE?
   
   
  Also, electronic echo sounding thing has not happened since I stopped using the audioquest cable.


----------



## cssarrow

Where did the capacitors go?
   
   

   
  Oh, there it is, partially..


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Where did the capacitors go?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Did you finished changing the capacitors? If yes what kind of a difference has it made?
   
  I am going to test some more op-s in the one, here is a part of the op-s that is going to be tested:


----------



## pao_revolt

so i'm using the MUSES edition on XLR as a DAC only, compare with my Ayre QB-9, i would say that ASUS is a little bit better sound on my stax009.
  
  thumb up to asus for the product as such a low price.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Did you finished changing the capacitors? If yes what kind of a difference has it made?
> 
> I am going to test some more op-s in the one, here is a part of the op-s that is going to be tested:


 
   I only resumed tonight as my soldering tip started to fail me and needed a new one.
  That is a lot of op-amps (especially the metal cans)
   
  As of now, this is what i have going on for the project.
   


 *Generous amount of thermal paste on PSU Heatsinks (using credit card method) *
 *Aluminum Heatsink on Smaller Fin side of PSU's Heat-sink (Size 25mmx25mmx10mm)*
 *Nichicon Audio KA 50V Capacitors*
 *2x Elna Silmic II Capacitors for RCA Out (220uF @ 35V)*
 *Gold Plated DIP-8 sockets. (to raise the TO-99 > DIP-8 adapter so it wouldn't hit capacitors/headphone out & volume meter)*
 *Replacement LME49710HA w/ aluminum heat-sinks*
 *A few OPA op-amps for testing*
 
 *Custom rhodium plated power cord for Essence One*
 *Silver Plated OFC Wire w/ silver plated Dupont Female Connector for PCI-E cable (Connecting PSU PCB to Audio PCB)*
 *Remove solder from every joint, Replace with Kester 5% Silver Solder (SN95AG5)*
 *Aluminum Heat-Sink on Analog Devices ADSP-21261 (Size: 14mmx14mmx6mm)*
 *Aluminum Heat-Sink on CM6631 (Size: 11mmx11mmx5mm)*
   
*WIMA CAPACITORS:*
*From what i can tell, is that the 2200/100 and 1800/100 is FKP 2. (black marking)*
*0.022/100 and 8200/100 being FKS 2. (white/silver marking)*
   
*I used a flash light, which turns out, the bottom of the film capacitors were yellow epoxy (http://www.wimausa.com/EN/marking.htm)*
   
*FKP 2 is already good for audio application so no need to replace it.*
*From what i can see, switching the FKS 2 for FKP 2 will improve, or finding the same capacitors in lower tolerance.*
   
*TAW is going to be sending me a few sample FKP2 WIMA Capacitors for me to replace the stock ones.*
*This is what im aiming for, hopefully it will work out.*
   
 *(4) 0.022uF/100V/2.5% FKP2 (Stock Essence One : 10% Tolerance FKS)*
 *(6) 1800pF/100V/2.5% FKP2 **(Stock Essence One : 5% Tolerance)*
 *(8) 2200pF/100V/**2.5% **FKP2 **(Stock Essence One : 5% Tolerance)*
  
 *(8) 8200pF/100V/**5%, or 2.5% FKS2 **(Stock Essence One is 10% Tolerance) *
 *OR** *
 *8200pF/630V/**10%, 5%, or 2.5% FKP **(Stock Essence One is 10% Tolerance FKS)*
  
 _From what i've learned, the lower tolerance, the more accurate levels the film capacitor produces which is more ideal._
 _Also, that it's okay to use higher voltage capacitors. They offered me 630V for the 8200pF (might be oversized), but i decided to try it out and see if it would fit. Being FKP instead of FKS should yield some improvements._
  
 _Correct me if im wrong._
   
  Quote:


pao_revolt said:


> so i'm using the MUSES edition on XLR as a DAC only, compare with my Ayre QB-9, i would say that ASUS is a little bit better sound on my stax009.
> 
> thumb up to asus for the product as such a low price.


 
   
  That's great!
   
  I'm happy that it improved your sound quality.
   
  The stax-009 is sexy. too bad i will never afford one.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

I decided to get the muses addition, but can't find a place that ships outside US!..appreciate the help guys...


----------



## 4Real

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I decided to get the muses addition, but can't find a place that ships outside US!..appreciate the help guys...


 
   
  Really, aren't they only on sale at EXcaliberPC ? their shipping calc lists pretty much all countries.
   
  http://www.excaliberpc.com/622377/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses.html
   
  I'm still waiting for a UK release date


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





4real said:


> Really, aren't they only on sale at EXcaliberPC ? their shipping calc lists pretty much all countries.
> 
> http://www.excaliberpc.com/622377/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses.html
> 
> I'm still waiting for a UK release date


 
  They only accept a wire transfer for international orders, and I only use Paypal, for security reasons, and in case something happens after the sale, as Paypal always got my back covered.


----------



## 4Real

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> They only accept a wire transfer for international orders, and I only use Paypal, for security reasons, and in case something happens after the sale, as Paypal always got my back covered.


 
   
  Be nice if they put that in their FAQ


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





4real said:


> Be nice if they put that in their FAQ


 
Does EXcaliberPC.com accept international credit cards?
 We will no longer accept International credit cards starting from 10/1/2007. All International orders must be paid via bank wire transfer. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this. Updated: 10/1/2007


----------



## 4Real

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Does EXcaliberPC.com accept international credit cards?
> We will no longer accept International credit cards starting from 10/1/2007. All International orders must be paid via bank wire transfer. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this. Updated: 10/1/2007


 

 Doesn't really relate to paypal from the heading sure lots of people skip that if they want to use paypal.
   
  I guess I wont be ordering one either, was considering it as I'm also outside the US and there's no info on a release date anywhere else for the muses edition.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





4real said:


> Doesn't really relate to paypal from the heading sure lots of people skip that if they want to use paypal.
> 
> I guess I wont be ordering one either, was considering it as I'm also outside the US and there's no info on a release date anywhere else for the muses edition.


----------



## 4Real

Wonderful, so you have to add to cart to find that out


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


>


 
  That sucks man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  hope that you'll find a way to get one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> That sucks man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you Tim, yep that really sucks, big time. In the end, If I find all doors closed, I will have to ask someone to buy it for me and ship it ,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and the drinks will be on me, as he will be doing me a big favor.


----------



## 4Real

@turokrocks

 You might want to do a google shopping search because they are starting to show up other places, I tried today and got 4 different places one which accepts paypal. I didn't look into it any further so don't know if they accept international orders.

 None where in stock though.

 http://www.neobits.com/asus_xonar_essence_one_muse_ed_xonar_essence_one_p5130357.html


----------



## Pippin76

Hey cssarrow,
   
   
  I saw your diagram with recommendations for opamps a few pages back, but just to be sure: what is your top recommendation for the RCA buffer? The LME49710HA? (and will I need an extra adaptor?)


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LME49710HA, is a single channel opamp, hence the 7*1*0 designation, instead of 7*2*0 for dual channel.  HA -means metal can opamp.
  In this case you need two opamps and an adapter to go from dual TO-99 package to DIP8 which is what you use on the E1's.
  IMO, they are easily one of the best sounding opamps you can use these days.


----------



## Pippin76

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The LME49710HA, is a single channel opamp, hence the 7*1*0 designation, instead of 7*2*0 for dual channel.  HA -means metal can opamp.
> In this case you need two opamps and an adapter to go from dual TO-99 package to DIP8 which is what you use on the E1's.
> IMO, they are easily one of the best sounding opamps you can use these days.


 
  Thanks for the reply, robscix! Yes, cssarrow posted a link to ebay with a DIP8 dual version so thats what I was going to get - I should have phrased my question better, I meant if I should get an extra adaptor (like with the headphone buffers where theres apparently no space for them without an extra).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, grab a few extra DIP8 sockets used on PCB's.  These allow you to extend the socket on the E1 upwards to clear the caps when you use larger opamps such as the dual LME49710 modules.
  IIRC, you need 2 extra for each socket in the headphone section, so grab 4. They are very cheap.


----------



## Pippin76

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yes, grab a few extra DIP8 sockets used on PCB's.  These allow you to extend the socket on the E1 upwards to clear the caps when you use larger opamps such as the dual LME49710 modules.
> IIRC, you need 2 extra for each socket in the headphone section, so grab 4. They are very cheap.


 
   
  Got it, thanks


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





4real said:


> @turokrocks
> 
> You might want to do a google shopping search because they are starting to show up other places, I tried today and got 4 different places one which accepts paypal. I didn't look into it any further so don't know if they accept international orders.
> 
> ...


 
  LOL...I have been Googling and emailing many since morning, and many just replied "Sorry we have to update our FAQ as we do not ship internationally!!!"
  Neobits has not replied, so lets hope for the best.
   
  Thanks 4real, please keep me posted if something comes up your way, and I will inform you if  I get a positive reply.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you Tim, yep that really sucks, big time. In the end, If I find all doors closed, I will have to ask someone to buy it for me and ship it ,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would help you, but my credit is already stretched as far as it can handle right now. Sorry buddy!
   
  Quote: 





pippin76 said:


> Hey cssarrow,
> 
> 
> I saw your diagram with recommendations for opamps a few pages back, but just to be sure: what is your top recommendation for the RCA buffer? The LME49710HA? (and will I need an extra adaptor?)


 
  Premade: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49710HA-X2-Adaptor-/180872434827?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2a1cd6548b
   
  Make it yourself:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180728972287?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261027708584?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Heatsink: http://www.ebay.com/itm/250975939649?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  Riser: (needed for headphone dip8 sockets) http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  You won't need the riser for the RCA Out. For XLR, they're too close together so you're better off using a LME49720HA.
   
  I have 6 Gold Plated DIP8 sockets let, if you need them (and can pay $1.95) for shipping, hit me up.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Amputate

I got the normal edition.
  As posted previously in a different topic I found the bass quite lacky.
  I've been sitting at home for weeks now with a broken wrist so I've spend more than enough time listening to this one to confirm that I don't like it's bass as much.
   
  So I'm wondering if I should add a separate amp or just get a new pair of cans.
  Atm i'm using PC -> USB -> HD650
   
  Hmmm... choices


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





amputate said:


> I got the normal edition.
> As posted previously in a different topic I found the bass quite lacky.
> I've been sitting at home for weeks now with a broken wrist so I've spend more than enough time listening to this one to confirm that I don't like it's bass as much.
> 
> ...


 
  The orginal essence has a very boomy bass coming from the NE5532 which sounds very bad.
   
  I say roll in a few op-amps into the LFP and I/V (op-amps that are better suited for bass) before thinking of buying another headphone amp.
  HD-650 lacks with the original essence (5532), i heard it and didn't like it.
   
  I can't recommend a good bass op-amp as my preference lies more into mid/high treble and detailed sound stage. Bass i like being there but only as a impact rather than it taking full control of songs.
   
  AD797 did good in the I/V for bass and clarity.
  OPA627 was all right for the LFP but may sound a little electronic.
   
  This way you have leftover cash for a more bass heavy headphone (HE-400 i recommend).
   
*Tim*


----------



## ROBSCIX

I found the original E1 to have a very balances bass.  The source is only part of the puzzle as your cans play a large role also in the overall signature.  Sometimes a source and specific cans just don't have the right synergy out of the box, so you can try and roll some opamps or tune the EQ in whatever player you are using -if available as it might give you what you are looking for.


----------



## Gandah

This question has most likely been asked. Has anyone tried muse01 in headphone buffer as well as I/V and LFP at the same time. if so how does the compare to LME49720HA ?


----------



## cssarrow

They sounded okay in buffer while 49720HA's were in IV/LFP but i haven't tried all 8 with MUSE01's. Too broke for that.
   
  Don't think anyone ever will to be honest.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> They sounded okay in buffer while 49720HA's were in IV/LFP but i haven't tried all 8 with MUSE01's. Too broke for that.
> 
> Don't think anyone ever will to be honest.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  Yeah that's fair enough a extra $100 for a test is probably not worth it, be interesting though
   
  I'm just about to start my op-amp rolling this week myself after a fellow headfier kindly offered to send some op-amps my way 
   
  This is whats coming 2x OPA2107, 4x OPA2132, 2x LM4562, 4x LME49722 still need to do more research before I get started


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Yeah that's fair enough a extra $100 for a test is probably not worth it, be interesting though
> 
> I'm just about to start my op-amp rolling this week myself after a fellow headfier kindly offered to send some op-amps my way
> 
> This is whats coming 2x OPA2107, 4x OPA2132, 2x LM4562, 4x LME49722 still need to do more research before I get started


 
  That's awesome!
   
  I've tested lots too but sticking with the LME49710HA's (dual) in buffers as they sound the best there. MUSE01 sounds great, wouldn't want to replace $50 op amps.
   
  Let us know how your op amp rolling comes along.
   
*Tim*


----------



## qqexpress

Hey there cssarrow, thanks a lot for the information! I am in the process of trying to receive free op amps directly from TI, so am just waiting on that. But what are your impressions for dealing with really sharp treble? I really love the Denon D7000, but the highs are just so painful to listen to once in a while, do you know what op amps/combinations would provide a fix to this?


----------



## cssarrow

qqexpress said:


> Hey there cssarrow, thanks a lot for the information! I am in the process of trying to receive free op amps directly from TI, so am just waiting on that. But what are your impressions for dealing with really sharp treble? I really love the Denon D7000, but the highs are just so painful to listen to once in a while, do you know what op amps/combinations would provide a fix to this?




I haven't heard the D7000 being treble fatgueing , but if you use the op-amps like OPA1232 and 627 it wouldn't help you out so much in the treble as i've notice a little treble fatigue when using them for I/V or LFP.

The LM4562/LME49720 works okay with softening the treble a little bit but the sharpness may still be there for you as they make vocals more forward and separated.

Try the NE5532 or AD825 for the headphone buffer. If the treble sharpness is only coming out from the headphones and not from RCA or XLR then keep trying two of the same op amps for the buffer for headphone stage. Dont try diferent ones as one opamp in the headphone stage buffers each channel (L and R) separately.

*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





qqexpress said:


> Hey there cssarrow, thanks a lot for the information! I am in the process of trying to receive free op amps directly from TI, so am just waiting on that. But what are your impressions for dealing with really sharp treble? I really love the Denon D7000, but the highs are just so painful to listen to once in a while, do you know what op amps/combinations would provide a fix to this?


 
  The opa1612 in the buffer has smoother highs than the stock 49720. I still have to check but i think the 49720ha also has smoother highs than the plastic one.


----------



## Pippin76

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Premade: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49710HA-X2-Adaptor-/180872434827?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2a1cd6548b
> 
> Make it yourself:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/180728972287?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the offer Tim, but for the time being I will only try out the RCA buffer so I wont need a riser, as you say. Will be interesting to hear those metal can ones


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> The opa1612 in the buffer has smoother highs than the stock 49720. I still have to check but i think the 49720ha also has smoother highs than the plastic one.


 
  I haven't tried the 1612 yet, but raven is right, the HA has smoother highs than the black plastic one, only by a few hairs though.
  However, with two LME4910HA's, you'll notice a larger difference coming from a single black plastic 49720NA.
  Quote: 





pippin76 said:


> Thanks for the offer Tim, but for the time being I will only try out the RCA buffer so I wont need a riser, as you say. Will be interesting to hear those metal can ones


 
  Great, then you wouldn't be needing extra DIP8 Sockets for rising. 
  I noticed a difference when using two LME49710HA's instead of the stock LM4562, even a larger difference changing the RCA capacitor to Elna Silmic II's. 
   
*Tim*


----------



## cssarrow

I'm afraid that my Essence One won't make it out of this surgery. (soldering process)
   
   

   
  About to give it a test.
   
  And....IT WORKS!
   
   

   
  Noticed some very very good changes in detail, separation, and transparency instantly. Treble was slightly higher (barely), and bass was a little cleaner.
   
  Can't wait to add the new WIMA capacitors, aluminum heatsinks, power cord, pci-express cord, and LME49710HA's to be installed..
_Along upgrading the black cable underneath the Essence PCB and changing all 3mm LED's (including smd) to red/dark red._
   
   
*Tim*


----------



## TJ Max

Is this DAC discontinued? Is something else on the way?


----------



## Uusitalo

How do you get the E1 working with Windows 8? ASUS said they support it ( https://plus.google.com/+ASUS/posts/BCKUeYLtMD5 ), but when I try to install the driver, it tells me my OS is not supported.
   
  Plus the driver-download on the website seems to be broken: http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One/#support_Download


----------



## HelIish

So I heard the noise today first time since I started using the stock USB cable. 
   
   
  I am thinking about going with an optical cable out of the STX any cons of doing this? Sound should be the same since its digital correct?
   
  & the virtual surround is definitely doing something, I need to find a good test but the sound does seem a lot more positional.
   
  edit: So it hasnt happened yet, but I think the problem was with using USB and having so many PCI-E devices capable of sound, even though I disabled them all and it still happen.
   
   
  essence stx
  essence hdav 1.3+H6
  avermedia gamebroadcaster HD


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





tj max said:


> Is this DAC discontinued? Is something else on the way?


 
  No it is current. Some regions are working on getting it on shelves at audio stores - and that's what's taking time.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





uusitalo said:


> How do you get the E1 working with Windows 8? ASUS said they support it ( https://plus.google.com/+ASUS/posts/BCKUeYLtMD5 ), but when I try to install the driver, it tells me my OS is not supported.
> 
> Plus the driver-download on the website seems to be broken: http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One/#support_Download


 
   
   
  The ASUS site has just gone a face-lift, please bear with us, we'll get that sorted out asap.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> The ASUS site has just gone a face-lift, please bear with us, we'll get that sorted out asap.


 
  I have been trying to buy the muses edition from an online store that ships internationally (outside US) since more than 3 weeks, and in vain!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I appreciate your help in this matter....


----------



## Uusitalo

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I have been trying to buy the muses edition from an online store that ships internationally (outside US) since more than 3 weeks, and in vain!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As far as I know, excaliberpc.com is the only site that has it in stock and ships internationally. I've ordered there and the wire transfer took about 5 days to confirm, after that the shipping was superquick with FedEx, took about 4 days to get to my place from the US. You might want to check back with them though since the availability now says "Please Call".

 Also, be careful, if you ship to Europe you have to pay EU taxes+duty for the import to Fedex which would be about 200€, so you might be better off buying the standard E1 and getting the MUSES separately, or just wait for a proper EU release.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I have been trying to buy the muses edition from an online store that ships internationally (outside US) since more than 3 weeks, and in vain!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Each region is working on it. The distribution channel varies from region to region, so it's taking time. There should be units on sale in the EU soon. This Xonar account is handled by HQ and North America, we have relayed your posts to the other regions and will try and update here when we know more.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I'm afraid that my Essence One won't make it out of this surgery. (soldering process)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice mod so far, so it does improves the sound if you change the capacitors.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Each region is working on it. The distribution channel varies from region to region, so it's taking time. There should be units on sale in the EU soon. This Xonar account is handled by HQ and North America, we have relayed your posts to the other regions and will try and update here when we know more.


 
  As you said, out of stock , and I prefer to pay with paypal as to have my back covered.
  Quote: 





uusitalo said:


> As far as I know, excaliberpc.com is the only site that has it in stock and ships internationally. I've ordered there and the wire transfer took about 5 days to confirm, after that the shipping was superquick with FedEx, took about 4 days to get to my place from the US. You might want to check back with them though since the availability now says "Please Call".
> 
> Also, be careful, if you ship to Europe you have to pay EU taxes+duty for the import to Fedex which would be about , so you might be better off buying the standard E1 and getting the MUSES separately, or just wait for a proper EU release.


 
  Thank you, will be waiting for your update.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> As you said, out of stock , and I prefer to pay with paypal as to have my back covered.
> Thank you, will be waiting for your update.


 
   
   
  Contact ASUS support in your region. You can use Google with the country name to find a contact endpoint. Send an email to that address and they should be able to update you on availability in your region. I cover NA and can't do much to expedite outside what i've told you.
   
   
  This rather long URL shows a few more NA outlets:
   
  https://www.google.com/shopping/product/3263918897753903010?hl=en&q=xonar+essence+one+muses+edition&oq=xonar+essence+one+mus&gs_l=products-cc.3.0.0j0i5.2783.5719.0.6495.21.21.0.0.0.0.115.1403.19j2.21.0...0.0...1ac.1.5KoZzsYRCUY&sa=X&ei=hV_3UJ6wNcXXkAWO3oHgDQ&ved=0CDQQ8wIwAA


----------



## Uusitalo

Is there any (dis)advantage in using the S/PDIF-out from my mainboard instead of the USB out?
  Obviously I want the E1 to do the work, not my crappy onboard soundcard, so I'm not sure if using the SPDIF-out would interfere with the signal in any way.
   
  funny sidenote:
 My E1 MUSES Edition had an Audio Test Report for the standard E1 from 2011 + another one from 8/2012 for the Muses Op-amps, I guess they just swapped them in later on.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Depends on a case by case basis. If you're getting lots of noise via USB, then try S/PDIF instead.


----------



## cssarrow

Hello,
   
  I was wondering if the stock wima caps could be replaced with these.
   

   
  Help will be appreciated.
   
*Tim*


----------



## ROBSCIX

Really you can replace anything, but you have to consider if it is worth the time and expense to change the stock units.


----------



## cssarrow

These caps were free from TAW so i might as well, otherwise they would just be laying there calling out my name.
   
  Changing out parts is always fun (if they end up working).
   
  There are two FKS2 (8200pF|0.022uF) and two FKP2 (2200pF|1800p[F) embedded in the Essence One.
   
  FKP2 (Polypropylene) regarded as being one of the best film capacitors, should be an improvement specification wise when replacing the stock FKS2.
  For audio pathway, i hear having lower tolerance would be a benefactor, thus all the caps would be replaced with FKP2 2.5% Tolerance
   
  Since this being a thread on the Essence One, perhaps it may help other individuals who also have some free time on their hands.
   
*Tim*


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Essence One MUSES Edition @ Newegg:
   
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132065


----------



## mwindham08

I just replaced all 6 NE5532 with the Muses 01 op amps. My first impression has been improved detail across the board. The most noticeable difference, at least initially, is increase "oomph" and detail in the bass. Vocals also seem to be more transparent and musical. I will try to post more impressions after spending some more time with them.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I just replaced all 6 NE5532 with the Muses 01 op amps. My first impression has been improved detail across the board. The most noticeable difference, at least initially, is increase "oomph" and detail in the bass. Vocals also seem to be more transparent and musical. I will try to post more impressions after spending some more time with them.


 
  Did you get them from DIGIKEY?
   
  And you're right, there's a lot more detail along with a more impactful bass. Bass is more full and has more punch rather than slouchy from the NE5532. 
   
  The largest difference i also found was the Vocal forwardness. It's very very transparent and musical. If notice very closely, you'll notice better sound separation and a less aggressive noise floor.

 Treble is improved as well, but not too much.
   
   
*Tim*


----------



## mwindham08

Digikey would only sell them in lots of 50 so I ended up finding some on ebay. They were from a chinese dealer but he had a high rating so I took the risk, and I am very glad I did. I pretty much agree with your impressions. I have been looking for a difference in the treble and your right I do think it is improved, but not to the extent the bass is. Really added the kick that I felt the WA2 was lacking. Either way I am definitely enjoying the music much more than I was before!
   
  This is a link to the dealer on ebay. Shipping takes a while since it's from China but you get what you pay for.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/320862379536?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Digikey would only sell them in lots of 50 so I ended up finding some on ebay. They were from a chinese dealer but he had a high rating so I took the risk, and I am very glad I did. I pretty much agree with your impressions. I have been looking for a difference in the treble and your right I do think it is improved, but not to the extent the bass is. Really added the kick that I felt the WA2 was lacking. Either way I am definitely enjoying the music much more than I was before!
> 
> This is a link to the dealer on ebay. Shipping takes a while since it's from China but you get what you pay for.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/320862379536?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


 
  Shipping was actually really fast from them. That is the same place i got my MUSE01's from.
  I think it took me 3-4 days to get it since he sent it as a small letter.
   
  He sells authentic muses. I traded multiple emails with the guy because i was also unsure, in which he says that the op-amps were directly from JRC/NJR Co.
  He even showed me proof of his transaction receipt.
   
  You'll notice the treble and sound stage a little bit more when listening out of the RCA ouput.
   
  I'm glad you got rid of the NE5532's. It's really hard to go back to them after listening to a few hours of the MUSES01.
   
*Tim*


----------



## freemanator

Hi Guys,
   
  I have been enjoying my Essence One for a while, alternating between using my Sony MDR-F1s, just so comfy can forget I'm wearing them, and my Denon D700s.  I was just wondering if anyone had any recommendations for speakers to pair with it?
   
  Thinking about getting a pair, for use when I'm not the only one wanting to listen/watch, and for when I'm not sat at my desk.
   
  Any advice would be much appreciated.
   
  Cheers


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





freemanator said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have been enjoying my Essence One for a while, alternating between using my Sony MDR-F1s, just so comfy can forget I'm wearing them, and my Denon D700s.  I was just wondering if anyone had any recommendations for speakers to pair with it?
> 
> ...


 
  I've used the Essence One on:
   
  Audioengine A5+, A5, and A2 (A5+ has better features, and i'd gladly pay $100 more for it)
  Rokit RP10-3 and 6 (RP10-3 sounds better)
  Emotiva Airmotiv6 (GREAT BASS)
   
  They all sound good, however i like the Airmotiv a little more for their bass.
   
*Tim*


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





freemanator said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have been enjoying my Essence One for a while, alternating between using my Sony MDR-F1s, just so comfy can forget I'm wearing them, and my Denon D700s.  I was just wondering if anyone had any recommendations for speakers to pair with it?
> 
> ...


 

 I would go with a desktop amp and a set of passives bookshelf speakers, you can add a subwoofer later on.  That will give you the best sound for your budget and give you the best overall upgrade paths and flexibility.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Digikey would only sell them in lots of 50 so I ended up finding some on ebay. They were from a chinese dealer but he had a high rating so I took the risk, and I am very glad I did. I pretty much agree with your impressions. I have been looking for a difference in the treble and your right I do think it is improved, but not to the extent the bass is. Really added the kick that I felt the WA2 was lacking. Either way I am definitely enjoying the music much more than I was before!
> 
> This is a link to the dealer on ebay. Shipping takes a while since it's from China but you get what you pay for.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/320862379536?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


 

 Thank you for sharing that sellers contact link with us!
  And thanks alot to everyone else sharing your thoughts and expertise here. I've been following this thread almost since the beginning and you've all been a BIG help to me already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I may try the MUSES01 out in the near future, but first I will check how well the AD797-BR and/or the LME49990 will perform inside the E1 (somewhat an experiment). I will blindly roll all the headphone related opamps on the board and see how it synergies with the HD 800 I got here and been using for quite some time now.
   
  So far I'm really statisfied with the perfomance of the stock good'old NE5532's it comes with.
  Although they are not not the clearest I've heared nor got the widest soundstage they really make a got pair with the HD 800.
  They tend to damp the overall sound signature a little bit and make these headphones sound less harsh & cold and also emphasise the bass exactly to my liking (and I'm listen mostly to slow and deep electro with them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
  Make's me wonder if the E1 was orignally build with the HD 800 in mind as one or two guys from Asus I know of are actually using the E1 together with the HD 800 at home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... but I rather think that's just me hallucinating right there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, thank you all for your input! Hopefully I will share mine from now on too


----------



## mwindham08

Now that I have taken the plunge into swapping op amps I want to try swapping the LM4562 with the LME49710HA. Where is everyone buying them already attached to the adapter. I can plug op amps in but I don't think Im comfortable soldering and such. I found some on ebay from thailand but it may not be till the end of march before I would receive it. Any sellers closer to the USA?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Now that I have taken the plunge into swapping op amps I want to try swapping the LM4562 with the LME49710HA. Where is everyone buying them already attached to the adapter. I can plug op amps in but I don't think Im comfortable soldering and such. I found some on ebay from thailand but it may not be till the end of march before I would receive it. Any sellers closer to the USA?


 
  I posted the links in the previous pages.
   
  You can only use it for the RCA Out. To use it for the headphones, you'll need to buy a few DIP-8 sockets to raise it up a little or else it would conflict with capacitors, volume meter, and headphone socket.
   
  And yes, it's the one on ebay from Thailand. It took me nearly a month to get the pcb. I get things faster from China.
   
  I have some extra DIP-8 Sockets left if you need.
   
*Tim*


----------



## mwindham08

I went ahead and ordered from the thailand guy. I ordered one set for the RCA out first. If I get some later for the headphones I may take you up on that. GREAT....I thought the two weeks waiting for the Muses was bad enough. Amazon prime has spoiled me rotten...


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I went ahead and ordered from the thailand guy. I ordered one set for the RCA out first. If I get some later for the headphones I may take you up on that. GREAT....I thought the two weeks waiting for the Muses was bad enough. Amazon prime has spoiled me rotten...


 
  The muses got to me in 3-4 days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You must have had bad luck.
   
   
   
  Working on Wima Film Capacitors. Look at the size of that FKP.
  No room for the Large Green 8200pF, so it's going to be mounted underneath the PCB.
   
*Before the work:*
   

   
*Removal Begins:*
   

   
   
*First Capacitor In:*
   

   
*Many To Go: *_(Wouldn't want to damage $50 muses on accident)_
   

   
*Ran Into a problem:* _(Asked 10 Yr old to help me hold, this was what happened...he yanked on it..)_
   

   
  I know what you're thinking.. "How did his iphone take such a good close up picture?", Truth be told, i have no idea.
   
  The pcb wire that ripped off the eyelet seems to run to the top of the middle resistor.
  Would it be okay to use a 30AWG wire to connect the resistor to the capacitor lead?
   
*Tim*


----------



## Averruncus

Wow Tim, you look like you're turning the E1 into an entirely different beast. (Ouch for the ripped out wire!)
   
  My LME49710s have arrived and were very nicely packaged (bought from the Thai seller), although he charges 5usd for each item's shipping instead of combined shipping (stating that it's for insurance)... The build on the op amps seems to be good though. Still waiting for my DIP8 adapters to come, so can't use them yet...
   
  Seems like the general strength of the E1 is it's transparency, which improves as you roll better and better op-amps. Can't wait to change out my whole I/V section, but it'll take time to muster the money for 4 more sets of op amps. I've already spent more money on op amps then the difference between the base E1 and the MUSE edition... Sigh... New speakers will just have to wait...


----------



## cssarrow

*Just doodling around with the Essence One.*​ 
   

   
   

   

   

   

   
   





 Just squeezing what i can from this *AMAZING* DAC/Amp/Pre-Amp

 It's going to be a *MONSTER*.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

You should consider going into mass production after you have finished your prototype and selling them for a reasonable price


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> You should consider going into mass production after you have finished your prototype and selling them for a reasonable price


 
  that would be plagiarizing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> that would be plagiarizing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hah, you are probably right...


----------



## Sk1n5

Added 0.1uF/50V capacitors to my AD797Bs in the I/V stage. My jaw dropped at the difference. I knew they had a minor oscillation without, I'd verified it myself, but i didn't think an oscillation up in the MHz range would actually have an effect on sound quality. Guess I was wrong. Now I wish I still had my o-scope to check it for sure.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Added 0.1uF/50V capacitors to my AD797Bs in the I/V stage. My jaw dropped at the difference. I knew they had a minor oscillation without, I'd verified it myself, but i didn't think an oscillation up in the MHz range would actually have an effect on sound quality. Guess I was wrong. Now I wish I still had my o-scope to check it for sure.


 
  Did the extra cap make a large difference?
   
  Can you describe the differences? I haven't bypassed it with a cap yet, so if it's that large, i'll get some 0.1uF's and give them a try on my AD797s.
   
*Tim*
   
   
 *Fixed The Eyelet*​  Inserted braided shield strands into hole & solder.
   

   
  Insert wima film cap
   

   
  wrap strands around lead leg, solder.
   

   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Think of when you first enter a theater where you have to turn a corner to actually have a line of sight to the orchestra. It sounds really good before, but once you round that corner it just sounds "right". Also even though I don't have my o-scope anymore I'm going to say this killed the oscillation. The case doesn't get nearly as warm now.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Think of when you first enter a theater where you have to turn a corner to actually have a line of sight to the orchestra. It sounds really good before, but once you round that corner it just sounds "right".


 
  I love your analogy, this is a great way to describe how different gear sounds comparison to other gear. I'm going to use this analogy a lot from now on, thanks Sk1n5


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





gandah said:


> I love your analogy, this is a great way to describe how different gear sounds comparison to other gear. I'm going to use this analogy a lot from now on, thanks Sk1n5


 
  Thanks. Also, decided to test 0.22uF capacitors since I had them anyways. Same audio quality but now the case doesn't even get warm. Very interesting.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Thanks. Also, decided to test 0.22uF capacitors since I had them anyways. Same audio quality but now the case doesn't even get warm. Very interesting.


 
  So you're saying 0.22uF sounds as good as 0.1uF but even with less oscillation?
   
I was about to grab some 0.1uF, but will get 0.22uF now if that's the case.
   
Will try some AD797B bypassed with 0.22uF in the Headphone Buffer & RCA Buffer to see how they sound versus the LME49710HA.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> So you're saying 0.22uF sounds as good as 0.1uF but even with less oscillation?
> 
> I was about to grab some 0.1uF, but will get 0.22uF now if that's the case.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Without the oscilloscope I can only assume, but I've had it running now for an hour and the case is at ambient temp. Before it would start to warm up after about five minutes.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Without the oscilloscope I can only assume, but I've had it running now for an hour and the case is at ambient temp. Before it would start to warm up after about five minutes.


 
  As long as SQ is still the same, that's good enough for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

So I've been sitting here listening to my Essence One now continuously since I put the modified AD797Bs in and I have to say if the MUSES01s sound better than this I'm going to have to get them. To give another analogy, listening to acoustic guitar reminds me of sitting in front of my Grandpa and listening to him play. For reference I'm using Grado PS-500s, and my full lineup of opamps is the AD797Bs in the I/V, OPA627BMs in the LPF, and OPA627AUs in the headphone buffer.


----------



## jabbilabbi

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Clarified by Xonar.
> It took me some time to think too, wasn't sure the $50 would be worth it, but to me, it has. Makes sound more "live,lifelike,transparent, realism, etc, same word" middle vocals contain a rich detail swavey touch to them. They're not overbearingly clear like some DAC/Amps that are so clear, sometimes it ends up making the treble painful to hear. These are wonderful, extends bass so well. This one does a lot better than the HDP when it comes to making sounds more vinyl(less digital) sounding. Upsampling works great for increase in overall presentation, however with that increase of resolution, the fullness of the mids sounds less superb. I only listen with upsampling on certain songs, like jazz for example. (btw i listen to all genre of music, even kpop and indian music)
> 
> Pros worth noteing:
> ...


 
   
  Tim,
   
  I am curious where you got your specs of the E1. Specifically you claim that it can do 600mW @ 32ohms.
  I'm looking online and in the user manual and can't find any details on the power output abilities.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





jabbilabbi said:


> Tim,
> 
> I am curious where you got your specs of the E1. Specifically you claim that it can do 600mW @ 32ohms.
> I'm looking online and in the user manual and can't find any details on the power output abilities.


 
  I believe ASUS said this awhile back, but am not so sure.
  However, it was measured on 6moons to follow the specs. 
   
   
  650mW at 32Ω
  75mW at 600Ω
  610mW at 50Ω
  395mW at 100Ω
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/2.html
   
_*Question #3/*_
   
*Tim*


----------



## jabbilabbi

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I believe ASUS said this awhile back, but am not so sure.
> However, it was measured on 6moons to follow the specs.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi Tim,
   
  According to Asus webpage http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One/#specifications
   
  They say "Headphone : 7 Vrms ( Vp-p)"
   
and so @ 32 ohms   that would be   P = V^2/R      ( P = 7^2/32 )  ( P = ~1.53 Watts)
   
   
-Alex


----------



## Sk1n5

jabbilabbi,
  That assumes that you have a perfect circuit. However, the voltage peak to peak may be 7 volts but I would also assume that that is not under load. The base equation for power is voltage x current so the question really is: how much current can the amplifier supply without distorting? You also have to consider that there is a certain amount of resistance applied by the resistors after the opamp in the circuit. If I actually had the schematics I could probably get pretty close to that measured values with equations.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





jabbilabbi said:


> Hi Tim,
> 
> According to Asus webpage http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One/#specifications
> 
> ...


 
  Well Alex, i only went off by 6moons since at most times, they're reliable.
  6moons supposedly sent those questions to ASUS in which they answered.
   
  You're saying it can do 1.5W at 32Ω? Have you measured this yourself?
   
  I would be glad to try, but i have no idea if it could be done using by using a multimeter.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

cssarrow,
  The only way I could think of doing it with a mutlimeter is to put it in line with 32 ohm headphones and measure current. Then I^2xR=W. Just to note though, with one multimeter you're going to be measuring either right or left. I personally don't think this is a good idea unless you also hook up the other channel to keep it running. Not saying that anything bad would happen. I just don't like the idea of running one channel all out while the other is disconnected.


----------



## cssarrow

sk1n5 said:


> cssarrow,
> The only way I could think of doing it with a mutlimeter is to put it in line with 32 ohm headphones and measure current. Then I^2xR=W. Just to note though, with one multimeter you're going to be measuring either right or left. I personally don't think this is a good idea unless you also hook up the other channel to keep it running. Not saying that anything bad would happen. I just don't like the idea of running one channel all out while the other is disconnected.


 
  I'm confused already.
   
  Where should i measure from? underneath the 4 pin headphone surface mount?
  Left + Ground and Right + Ground?
  Which setting should be used on the multimeter? V~ or V--
   
  I have two multimeters so it shouldn't be a problem measuring both at the same time.
  
  I can put in a 35Ω (HE-400) or 32Ω (Razer Orca) and give it a measure.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Added 0.1uF/50V capacitors to my AD797Bs in the I/V stage. My jaw dropped at the difference. I knew they had a minor oscillation without, I'd verified it myself, but i didn't think an oscillation up in the MHz range would actually have an effect on sound quality. Guess I was wrong. Now I wish I still had my o-scope to check it for sure.


 
  Where did you put the capacitor, did you solder it on the 4-8 pins of the op? I am also using the ad797br but with 49720ha-s in lpf and buffer. Did you use some standard electrolytic or film capacitors. I experimented with some cheap electrolyt 100mF capacitors as bypass and it made quite a difference on the 2132 in the lpf that i used before but i would get some wima film capacitors for the ad797 if it is a noticeable upgrade.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I'm confused already.
> 
> Where should i measure from? underneath the 4 pin headphone surface mount?
> Left + Ground and Right + Ground?
> ...


 
  For measuring you should use a resistor since the headphones have different impedances depending on the frequency. So it is best to use 5w or 10w resistors for the measurement. You can measure the AC Voltage between grund and one channel and the current on the same channel. Then you can calculate the power.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> jabbilabbi,
> That assumes that you have a perfect circuit. However, the voltage peak to peak may be 7 volts but I would also assume that that is not under load. The base equation for power is voltage x current so the question really is: how much current can the amplifier supply without distorting? You also have to consider that there is a certain amount of resistance applied by the resistors after the opamp in the circuit. If I actually had the schematics I could probably get pretty close to that measured values with equations.


 
   
  The output impedance of the Essence One has already been measured by someone, it is slightly more than 10 Ω. So, that by itself limits the power into low impedance loads. The output resistors may also be small surface mount ones that cannot handle very high power dissipation. The headphone buffer IC is the LME49600, so the specifications of that can also be useful when estimating the maximum power output into low impedance loads (assuming that the power supply does not become the limiting factor).


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> For measuring you should use a resistor since the headphones have different impedances depending on the frequency. So it is best to use 5w or 10w resistors for the measurement. You can measure the AC Voltage between grund and one channel and the current on the same channel. Then you can calculate the power.


 
   
  It is unlikely that the maximum undistorted output into 32 Ω is not less than 1 W (the 7 Vrms maximum voltage and 10 Ω output impedance already limit it to ~0.9 W), so 10 W resistors might not be needed.
  When using a DMM to measure AC, make sure first that it is accurate at the frequency used for testing. Some DMMs work poorly at audio frequencies.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Where did you put the capacitor, did you solder it on the 4-8 pins of the op? I am also using the ad797br but with 49720ha-s in lpf and buffer. Did you use some standard electrolytic or film capacitors. I experimented with some cheap electrolyt 100mF capacitors as bypass and it made quite a difference on the 2132 in the lpf that i used before but i would get some wima film capacitors for the ad797 if it is a noticeable upgrade.


 
   
  I just soldered it on to pins 4 and 8 on the adapter. I used film capacitors.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> I just soldered it on to pins 4 and 8 on the adapter. I used film capacitors.


 
  I am going to try film capacitors tomorrow, tried to use the cheap electolytic 100mF capacitors today but it sounds exactly the same and heats up exactly the same so it didn´t do anything.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> I just soldered it on to pins 4 and 8 on the adapter. I used film capacitors.


 
  Wima FKP2 Film should be okay right? 
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I am going to try film capacitors tomorrow, tried to use the cheap electolytic 100mF capacitors today but it sounds exactly the same and heats up exactly the same so it didn´t do anything.


 
   
  That's a big difference in capacitance from what I used. Mine are only 0.22uF that magnitude of difference may have an effect.
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Wima FKP2 Film should be okay right?
> 
> *Tim*


 
   
  I just used polyester film caps I picked up at Radio Shack. Looking into picking up some polypropylene caps to see if it improves performance further, so let me know how that works out for you.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> That's a big difference in capacitance from what I used. Mine are only 0.22uF that magnitude of difference may have an effect.
> 
> 
> I just used polyester film caps I picked up at Radio Shack. Looking into picking up some polypropylene caps to see if it improves performance further, so let me know how that works out for you.


 
  I only used 100uF instead of 100mF but theoretically a big capacitance should not have a negative effect since it only works in this case as a low pass filter for ripple so a bigger capacitor filters out lower frequency ripples witch is pointless after a certain point. I am going to go for 0.22uF film capacitors for the next test.


----------



## cssarrow

Apparently ebay only has MKS for 0.22 values.
   
  Time to search for FKP2. Mouser would have some, but shipping is rather expensive.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Apparently ebay only has MKS for 0.22 values.
> 
> Time to search for FKP2. Mouser would have some, but shipping is rather expensive.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  But then since it is only for power supply bypassing there is no need to go crazy on the quality because the capacitor is not in the signal path anyway. I think the lme49720/10 could also use some bypassing, i am going to test it later.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> But then since it is only for power supply bypassing there is no need to go crazy on the quality because the capacitor is not in the signal path anyway. I think the lme49720/10 could also use some bypassing, i am going to test it later.


 
  Don't think im going to use it on LME49710JA as there's barely any room between my heat-sinks for that, but if you find an improvement, i'll go out of my way for that.
   
  As of now, just going to use them on AD797's in buffer stages to see if they sound good like the twin LME49710's.
   
  I wonder if the bypassing would help on MUSES01's.
   
*Tim*


----------



## jabbilabbi

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Well Alex, i only went off by 6moons since at most times, they're reliable.
> 6moons supposedly sent those questions to ASUS in which they answered.
> 
> You're saying it can do 1.5W at 32Ω? Have you measured this yourself?
> ...


 
   Tim & Whit3Rav3n,
   
  Thanks for going about re-tesing 6moons results.  This is way beyond my abilities.  I just wanted to figure out if I could drive the HE-400 / HE-500 properly using the E1. 
   
  Tim, I see that you own both of these... How do they sound on the E1?  Do you think the HE-500s are worth the extra coin?  
   
  -Alex


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





jabbilabbi said:


> Tim & Whit3Rav3n,
> 
> Thanks for going about re-tesing 6moons results.  This is way beyond my abilities.  I just wanted to figure out if I could drive the HE-400 / HE-500 properly using the E1.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well from a person who has both, it does drive the HP's fine. Could use a little more power though for people who listen at higher volumes than i (damaging levels). More power can also improve the SQ of the HE-500 a little since those are more "drive hungry'.
   
  They both sound good. HE-400 more surprising than the cleaner presentation of the HE-500, thus i decided to keep both. HE-500 has a wider sound stage, treble is higher/more controlled along with improved realism and sound separation. With an improved cable, they're not too far apart, and the HE-400 makes up the slack.
   
  HE-400 for when you feel more hype and high on adrenaline, HE-500 for when you just want a nice laid back clean presentation on a calm Sunday afternoon.
   
  I would not be able to choose one over the other. If i can't have both of them, i'd rather have neither and go for something like a Audeze LCD-2/LCD-3 or Sennheiser HD-800. HE-500 i wouldn't say is worth $300 more, but i would gladly pay for that again since to me, both is required.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Warning: Both 35V capacitors I've used for the AD797Bs have had one of the bunch fail, one quite spectacularly. The 50V ones I've put hours on with no problem.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Warning: Both 35V capacitors I've used for the AD797Bs have had one of the bunch fail, one quite spectacularly. The 50V ones I've put hours on with no problem.


 
  Sounds strange, my electrolytics i used before were just rated for 25v and none of them failed so far. Do the ad797-s still work? I tried bypassing on the 49720ha in the lpf with a 0,22uF wima mks 2 but it didn´t seem to do anything, sound and heat are the same as before.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Sounds strange, my electrolytics i used before were just rated for 25v and none of them failed so far. Do the ad797-s still work? I tried bypassing on the 49720ha in the lpf with a 0,22uF wima mks 2 but it didn´t seem to do anything, sound and heat are the same as before.


 
   
  I had a 1uF/35V tantalum melt, and a 22uf/35V electrolytic explode(found the plastic bottom across the room). Put 0.1uF/50V ceramics on the two that experience the fault. Both opamps still work fine. I'm thinking that I just got a couple of bad capacitors, if it were a problem with capacitance/voltage capacity I believe more than one out of each group would have popped. One other data point, both failures happened within 10-20 seconds of application of power.


----------



## Sk1n5

So I've done a bit more opamp swapping with the newly modded 797Bs. I've tried the following in the LPF stage with 797s in the I/V stage:
   
  LT1028, LME49990, LME49720NA, OPA627AU, and OPA627BM.
   
  The LT1028, LME49990, and LME49720NA all sound good.
   
  However, the OPA627AU adds an extra level of detail to mids and highs.
   
  The OPA627BM further improves on the OPA627AU by adding a slightly better sound stage, more bass impact, and lower bass extension.
   
  I also tried modded AD797B, they sounded similar to the OPA627AU with one problem. A distinct wooshing sound when no audio is being played. To me this indicates that even with the mod the AD797 is still unstable in the LPF position.
   
  Again this is just my opinion, everybody has different tastes/hears things differently.


----------



## cssarrow

Very informative. I added some 0.22uF to my AD797's today, and they were indeed less hot.
   
  I'll try and listen for the "wooshing sound" and let you know if i hear anything.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Great to hear you like the sound! I'll be testing the LME49990 and the AD797BR very soon too.


----------



## Sk1n5

Its looking like I'm going to invest in three more pairs of the OPA627BMs for the RCA and Headphone Buffer stages. Running 627AUs at the moment. I can hear a difference between the two in the LPF stage so here's to hoping I'll get further improvement.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> I had a 1uF/35V tantalum melt, and a 22uf/35V electrolytic explode(found the plastic bottom across the room). Put 0.1uF/50V ceramics on the two that experience the fault. Both opamps still work fine. I'm thinking that I just got a couple of bad capacitors, if it were a problem with capacitance/voltage capacity I believe more than one out of each group would have popped. One other data point, both failures happened within 10-20 seconds of application of power.


 

 This usually happens when polarized capacitors are connected wrong way - opposite polarity or too high voltage.


----------



## Kenion

I've got the LME49990 installed now! Removing the stock opamps was a real pain in the a** without the proper tools! It almost took me an hour and I managed to twist almost every "noes" on the opamps >_>
   
  I could immediately hear that the bass got more character to it now and the soundstage got wider too! Now I know what you guys mean by "oomphf" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. It's like the bass is now "growling/talking" to me, haha!  Fast, high-hat-heavy songs like metal and rock seem less fatiguing as the highs sound more seperated/balanced now. However, the diffrence is just "minor" but still...
   
  Hopefully they aren't getting much hotter than the stock ones. As for now, the case is still in normal room temperature.
  I'll be testing the AD797BR too and mix around a little bit as soon as I get them.
   
  Update:
  Meh, there appears to be noticable sibiliance with some vocals. That "sss" sound is just a bit louder than with the stock opamps :/


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I've got the LME49990 installed now! Removing the stock opamps was a real pain in the a** without the proper tools! It almost took me an hour and I managed to twist almost every "noes" on the opamps >_>
> 
> I could immediately hear that the bass got more character to it now and the soundstage got wider too! Now I know what you guys mean by "oomphf"
> 
> ...


 
  You should of used a small flat-head screw driver and leaned it from side to side once you had it under the op-amp. It's an easier way.
   
  What op-amp did you have before putting the LME49990 in?
  LOL You also get that "sss" sound that i've been getting since day one.
  For me, It only happens in a few specific songs and is pretty fatiguing since it's a little high pitch squeal. 
  The "sss" isn't as bad when using NE5532 and AD797. With the LME49720NA and 49710HA, it's there, however less on the 10HA. 
  But like i said, just a couple of songs, which EQ should fix.
   
  As for case temperature, changing the PSU Heatsink's thermal paste really improves heat dissipation. The PSU is the hottest part of the Essence One.
  After 1-2 hours of music listening, that was the only warm/hot for me. Every chip i touched on the Main PCB were barely warm.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> You should of used a small flat-head screw driver and leaned it from side to side once you had it under the op-amp. It's an easier way.
> 
> What op-amp did you have before putting the LME49990 in?
> LOL You also get that "sss" sound that i've been getting since day one.
> ...


 
   
  I have been using the stock opamps before. My original intentions were to use the AD797BR's in the I/V and the LME49990 just for messing around. I really like the NE5532. They seem to add some body and bass to the music and tame the highs on the HD 800's. However, I've heared only good things about both opamps. Especially the AD797BR, they seem to sound more "analog" and smooth but I haven't test it myself. Can't wait to get my hands on them (maybe tomorrow they arrive? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  Quote: 





> For me, It only happens in a few specific songs and is pretty fatiguing since it's a little high pitch squeal.
> The "sss" isn't as bad when using NE5532 and AD797. With the LME49720NA and 49710HA, it's there, however less on the 10HA.
> But like i said, just a couple of songs, which EQ should fix.


 
  Exactly my thoughts! That hiss somehow appears only on specific songs and most often with vocals. Really annoying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I got no problems using an EQ, however I want it to keep it as a last resort 
   
  I'm using the E1 with the LME49990 a couple of hours now and so far I can feel some more warmness right where the PSU/Coil is located. I think it's a tad warmer then before, when I was using the stock opamps in the I/V.
   
  Also worth to mention: I just recently replaced my stock 6,35 mm cable. My old stock cable broke just where the plastic isolation is right near to the socket on one side (as an example where: http://s7.directupload.net/images/130123/oszlu4bn.jpg ) . It's a complete mystery for me how that happend^^. However, Sennheiser replaced that cable for me for a new one. Charge free, no communication needed and super fast (afaik a stock cable replacement usually cost around 200 € ), really generous of them I must admit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So the cable im using now is still new and may/or may not require some more burn in


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Exactly my thoughts! That hiss somehow appears only on specific songs and most often with vocals. Really annoying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Agree with you 100%. The "sss" comes from vocals that sings/says any word that starts or ends with an "s".
  EQ is also a last resort for me, thus i chose to ignore those certain songs. When the volume is lower, the squeal is no longer fatiguing. 
   
  Glad the new cable is working out for you, just be careful about the heat of the op-amps. 
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Agree with you 100%. The "sss" comes from vocals that sings/says any word that starts or ends with an "s".
> EQ is also a last resort for me, thus i chose to ignore those certain songs. When the volume is lower, the squeal is no longer fatiguing.
> 
> Glad the new cable is working out for you, just be careful about the heat of the op-amps.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the advice.
  Yes, I will have an eye on the temperature. So far I can tell, the opamps are very warm but I think thats still in range. However, the coil is hot. The case is just about warm though. nothing to fear just yet I guess.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> This usually happens when polarized capacitors are connected wrong way - opposite polarity or too high voltage.


 
  I mounted the capacitors in the same direction and have since tested the same rated capacitors for an hour a piece. Seems I just got a couple dud capacitors.


----------



## Archimago

Hey guys, maybe I missed something in these 83 pages...  But I was wondering what is going on with the upsampling function?
   
  I've been measuring the XONAR E1 over the last few days with RightMark, and have noticed some really odd behaviour.
   
  With the newest firmware and Win 8 drivers (8.0.11.6 / 1.27 / 0111), this is the frequency response at 16/44 with & without upsampling using the USB interface:
   

   
  Looks good!
   
  Okay, now check the TosLink & Coaxial inputs at 16/44:

   

   
  Wow! With the upsampling button on, the frequency drops off in a big way by 15kHz on both TosLink and Coaxial digital inputs for some reason!
   
  Lets now check out USB 24/96:

   
   
  Again, premature drop off in frequencies with upsampling turned on; this time at ~25kHz which arguably is inaudible at least...
   
  ASUS: Can you discuss what kind of algorithm is being used when upsampling is turned on? Some kind of minimum phase filter upsampling for example could be very interesting!  *I think it's fair to say that the drop-offs in the TosLink and Coaxial at 16/44 are "bugs" since this would be audible (maybe the engineers over there should check 24/96 and other sampling rates also)!*  As for the drop off with USB 24/96, is this intended?


----------



## cssarrow

Great find Arch.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Yes this has been postet on the asus forum many monts ago, i never use upsampling because even on usb with 44,1khz the drop in treble is very audible. So for me upsampling sounded always worse.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Yes this has been postet on the asus forum many monts ago, i never use upsampling because even on usb with 44,1khz the drop in treble is very audible. So for me upsampling sounded always worse.


 
  I notice the treble getting cut as well. Makes the sound less pronounced, which is no good.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Anyway i´ve been using the ad797br in i/v and 49720ha in lpf and buffer for a while but this combination is still not optimal. It has a very good soundstage and clean sound but it sounds a bit thin and treble heavy. I am still waiting for adapters so i can test the opa827 and the 49990. Maybe there is a better combination with them.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Anyway i´ve been using the ad797br in i/v and 49720ha in lpf and buffer for a while but this combination is still not optimal. It has a very good soundstage and clean sound but it sounds a bit thin and treble heavy. I am still waiting for adapters so i can test the opa827 and the 49990. Maybe there is a better combination with them.


 

 As I have posted before, the best sound balance (for my ears) is with AD797br in i/v and LM4562 in lpf.  49720ha's are at output buffers, and yes, they are little too bright at lpf.


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Yes this has been postet on the asus forum many monts ago, i never use upsampling because even on usb with 44,1khz the drop in treble is very audible. So for me upsampling sounded always worse.


 
   
  I remember talk of the drop off with USB at 16/44 months ago and it obviously looks like they fixed that, BUT neglected to fix it for the TosLink & coaxial digital inputs!
   
  Also, it would be nice to get an idea what's going on with 24/96 as well...  What kind of upsampler also acts as a low-pass filter?


----------



## LSD25

Sorry for a lil sidetrack here.. Has anyone here got a chance to test out woo audio's wa22 with hd800s? If so, how does it compare to the E1 Muses edition? Or in general, how does E1 muses edition compare to a high end tube amp (considering its driven by a good dac)?


----------



## cssarrow

Just toying around with my Essence One.
   
  Decided to change up the LED's, as working in the computer industry for so long, i grew a nature to hating the color blue.
   
  ToSlink/Coaxial/USB LED changed to Red/White
  Up-sampling LED changed to White
  Bit-Perfect LED changed to Ultraviolet
  44.1 to 192 LED changed to Red
  Power Button LED changed to Red (Stock: 2.68V @ 3mA w/ 751Ω resistor)
   
  Will soon make a small 5V (Measured 4.95V) circuit to make Power Button LED have a "Glowing/Fade" Effect.
   

   

   

   

   
*Tim*


----------



## gattari

Well I have the original asus essence one.
Now decided to replace op amp.
How many muses 01 i have to bougth consedering I don t use the headphone section?
Six? In this way I have the same muses config ?
Thanks for


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





lsd25 said:


> Sorry for a lil sidetrack here.. Has anyone here got a chance to test out woo audio's wa22 with hd800s? If so, how does it compare to the E1 Muses edition? Or in general, how does E1 muses edition compare to a high end tube amp (considering its driven by a good dac)?


 
  Not that I have heard wa22 or E1 muse edition as "yet" I have heard woo audio's wa6-SE feed by E1 standard edition, it was just amazing very vinyl sounding in comparison to the E1 by itself.  However this was with my Fostex TH900 and friends LCD2 v2.  If a tube amp is what you are looking for your HD800 I would suggest as many head-fier would also, Eddie Current's, Zana Deux SE tube amp, some say it makes for the best pairing, and its around the same price as wa22.


----------



## Kenion

Tim or anyone else, do you happen to know where I can find simple DIP8->DIP8 "sockets, so I can place that socket on top of the existing socket of the E1 as a backup?
   
  I've had some trouble just a few minutes ago... I wanted to remove one of the stock NE5532 opamps. Unfortunately, one of those "noses" broke during the process. That means, one half got stuck inside the soldered socket hole... T_T
   
  It was a real pain...however, after an hour of trying to get that tiny little thing out of that hole (I had to turn the E1 upside down and fiddle around with a tiny needle), I managed to get it out.
  So to prevent this from happening again I would like to buy another socket just to place it on top of the soldered, original one as a backup.
  May I ask what the excact name for it is and where I could buy some of them? - Best some shop that ships to Europe.
   
  If I look it up (DIP 8 adapter or socket), all I find are dozens of pages of stuff I'm not looking for 
   
  Any help is much appreciated!
   
  Update:
  Hmm guys, I found something: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?FV=fff40016%2Cfff8049c%2C2dc0905&k=ic+socket&vendor=0&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ptm=0&fid=0&quantity=0&PV571=286
   
  or maybe: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dil-sockets/7185155/ ?

  Do you think that is the correct one? It looks like it :O


----------



## fedcod

Considering I use only XLR output and headphone, what free sample opamps should I get from TI to start playing with opamp rolls ?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gattari said:


> Well I have the original asus essence one.
> Now decided to replace op amp.
> How many muses 01 i have to bougth consedering I don t use the headphone section?
> Six? In this way I have the same muses config ?
> Thanks for


 
  Six is all you need.
  Does not matter if you do not use headphone section,I/V and LFP requires 6 op-amps and affects the sound on all outputs.
   
  Get them from Digikey for $50 per, or ebay for $59 per w/ free shipping
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> Tim or anyone else, do you happen to know where I can find simple DIP8->DIP8 "sockets, so I can place that socket on top of the existing socket of the E1 as a backup?
> 
> I've had some trouble just a few minutes ago... I wanted to remove one of the stock NE5532 opamps. Unfortunately, one of those "noses" broke during the process. That means, one half got stuck inside the soldered socket hole... T_T
> 
> ...


 
  I have a bunch of gold plated ones left, if only you lived in the U.S. i would of sent them to you.
   
   

   
  Here's where i got mine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  All it needs to be is a DIP 8 Socket, with 8 holes at the top (4 on each side) and 8 pins at the bottom (4 on each side).
   
  Like in in the picture above, i stacked them on top of each other and remove one whenever i need it.
  Quote: 





fedcod said:


> Considering I use only XLR output and headphone, what free sample opamps should I get from TI to start playing with opamp rolls ?


 
  Perhaps try the most top rated ones first. (or most biased)
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I have a bunch of gold plated ones left, if only you lived in the U.S. i would of sent them to you.
> 
> Here's where i got mine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> All it needs to be is a DIP 8 Socket, with 8 holes at the top (4 on each side) and 8 pins at the bottom (4 on each side).
> ...


 
  Thanks a lot for your help Tim!
  I will get some from ebay then.
   
  Gotta buy some NE5532P replacement too then... xD


----------



## gattari

Thanks a lot Cssarow, now the problem is digikey,
They don t accept order for only 6 unit  and the cinese guy return only at february 17, mmh... it is not easy to obtain the muses01.
Ciao from italy


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Thanks a lot for your help Tim!
> I will get some from ebay then.
> 
> Gotta buy some NE5532P replacement too then... xD


 






 China ships pretty cheap, so you're saving some good money.
  In terms of removing the op-amps easier, you might want to look for this type of tool:
   

   
  Otherwise, Small Flat head screw driver should work, however if one side has all 4 pins stuck in while the other side is fully out, use a plier   and yank it out upward.Just bend the legs back after its out. However, i still recommend the op-amp removal tool more. I think it comes with the Xonar Essence One Plus Edition.
   
  Here's an example of what i do after loosening the op-amp from the socket:
   

   
  Quote: 





gattari said:


> Thanks a lot Cssarow, now the problem is digikey,
> They don t accept order for only 6 unit  and the cinese guy return only at february 17, mmh... it is not easy to obtain the muses01.
> Ciao from italy


 
  What do you mean return at February 17th?
  Here's the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab4e35e10
   
  I received mine in 3 days. Comes with 14 return policy. Authentic. 
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Thanks.
  I did it with a tweezer. However, I kept loosing grip.
  I ordered 2 diffrent IC-removal tools (to test which one is best) just like the one you have mentioned.
   
  It's really easy to remove the mono to dual adapter opamps (LME49990) though. - That's why I would like to mount a dip 8 socket everywhere on the E1 for easy swapping.


----------



## gattari

Yes there is an advice on ebay vendor site . The vendor return 17 february.
Ciao


----------



## Sk1n5

cssarrow, its the Chinese New Year.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> cssarrow, its the Chinese New Year.


 
  I'm Asian and i had no clue.
   




   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

They have sent my package anyway, but it was a diffrent chinese vendor (not the MUSES one) - guess they don't give a damn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'm flying over Beijing (just to make a stop in that airport and continue) later this month. I hope I don't have to worry about my plane get shot down by fireworks until then.. xD
  
  ...once upon a time I had great interest in buying one of these MUSES opamps but then I took an in the knee... or let's say, I've managed to easily break any DIP8 chip around me


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> They have sent my package anyway, but it was a diffrent chinese vendor (not the MUSES one) - guess they don't give a damn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well it does sound good, so it should be on your future upgrades list.
   
  Just put them on socket risers and never worry about it again.
   
  I dislike using over 2 DIP-8 socket's, pretty eccentric and scared any more would negatively affect the sound.
   
  Almost done with my mod's. If you've noticed, the blue led's on the essence one is pretty bright. It shouldn't be this bright as the lights are suppose to just be indicators of the unit being powered and using the right functions. It's like a flash bang grenade at night time, since i use it for desktop use, it's blinding.. 
  You guys would love the pictures that i'll be posting soon. Lot's of eye candy. Waiting on the red surface mount led's for the power button.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Can't wait to see some pictures of your modded E1 Tim 
  Don't forget to shoot some in complete darkness too


----------



## acidic

hi people... i just got my essence one (base version) and ordered the muses opamp. I tried to search in the internet on the gain jumper that is on the muses version of essence one but i can't seems to find it. is it possible for muses version owners to take a photo of that portion and how it looks like. I believe the main board for all the essence one versions are the same only the muses version has something extra solderied on it. Hope there is some direction for us essence one base or plus users to follow and add that in.
   
  Not to discredit anyone that purchased the muses version but we are the budget (or desperate) guys that would like to mod this into a full muses version..... in my country, its almost impossible to get the muses version due to distributor constraint MOQ from Asus....


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





acidic said:


> hi people... i just got my essence one (base version) and ordered the muses opamp. I tried to search in the internet on the gain jumper that is on the muses version of essence one but i can't seems to find it. is it possible for muses version owners to take a photo of that portion and how it looks like. I believe the main board for all the essence one versions are the same only the muses version has something extra solderied on it. Hope there is some direction for us essence one base or plus users to follow and add that in.
> 
> Not to discredit anyone that purchased the muses version but we are the budget (or desperate) guys that would like to mod this into a full muses version..... in my country, its almost impossible to get the muses version due to distributor constraint MOQ from Asus....


 
  5 hours ago I pushed the trigger and ordered the muses version (my girl will kill me), I will be glad to post some picture  when it arrives and have some time with my new toy.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> 5 hours ago I pushed the trigger and ordered the muses version (my girl will kill me), I will be glad to post some picture  when it arrives and have some time with my new toy.


 
  I'm confident that you will love your new muses ed.!


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Can't wait to see some pictures of your modded E1 Tim
> Don't forget to shoot some in complete darkness too


 
  who would of thought led's would be so expensive..


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> who would of thought led's would be so expensive..


 

 pictures been delayed?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> pictures been delayed?


 
  LED's delay= pictures being delayed.
   
  LED with too high of luminosity (mcd) would be like a flash bang in front of my face when listening to music.
  Mouser doesn't have a very good selection of red leds.
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

turokrocks said:


> 5 hours ago I pushed the trigger and ordered the muses version (my girl will kill me), I will be glad to post some picture  when it arrives and have some time with my new toy.




Congrats bud!! Envy you as my country distributor don't seems to be bringing the plus and muses versions in. How I wish I could push that button now...

Awaits for your photos!!


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Congrats bud!! Envy you as my country distributor don't seems to be bringing the plus and muses versions in. How I wish I could push that button now...
> 
> Awaits for your photos!!


 
  He got them from a U.S. Seller that decided to ship it there.
  You should try the same place that he got it from..
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> He got them from a U.S. Seller that decided to ship it there.
> You should try the same place that he got it from..
> 
> *Tim*


 

 Hi Tim! great to see your reply - how's your modding doing?
   
  Right now i already got my E1 base and muses opamp delivered to me.... don think i can sell that and get the E1 muses version instead. whats more is the RMA and warranty which is not covered locally....


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I'm confident that you will love your new muses ed.!


 
   



acidic said:


> Congrats bud!! Envy you as my country distributor don't seems to be bringing the plus and muses versions in. How I wish I could push that button now...
> 
> Awaits for your photos!!


   


  Thank you, I really do hope so.
  Also I will be upgrading my HE-500's cable, with the help of cssarrow....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...Thank you  for everything, people like you make Head-fi one of the best Audio forums..


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Hi Tim! great to see your reply - how's your modding doing?
> 
> Right now i already got my E1 base and muses opamp delivered to me.... don think i can sell that and get the E1 muses version instead. whats more is the RMA and warranty which is not covered locally....


 
  That's too bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Be careful when you switch in/out the muses op-amps then. The Essence One should have a good longevity as the caps/arrangements they use are high quality stuff. The power supply Panasonic FR should last up to a good 10,000 hours at 105C, which is astonishingly high, so you'll have no trouble. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you, I really do hope so.
> Also I will be upgrading my HE-500's cable, with the help of a member @ Headfi.....can I post your name?....
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
    
  Go right on ahead.
   
  I understand why turok*rocks!*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> That's too bad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 Wow.. your technical knowledge is very good with electrical components... i wonder what happens if i put the opamp in a wrong orientation? Will that blow it up? i haven start rolling these opamps yet.... haha


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Wow.. your technical knowledge is very good with electrical components... i wonder what happens if i put the opamp in a wrong orientation? Will that blow it up? i haven start rolling these opamps yet.... haha


 
  It could damage the op-amp if inserted the wrong way.
   
  It will heat-up, then kablash, dead op-amp. 
   
*Tim*


----------



## Averruncus

The LME49710s (2 pairs on HP buffers)... Wow, they really seemed to have transformed my E1. The depth and width of the soundstage, the separation and detail,l really brings out the excitement of being an audiophile (thanks again to Tim for the recommendations!). Still a bit too forward with my HE500, but better with aggressive songs now. Really makes one wonder how much better the MUSEs can get...
   
  Still, I have a whole I/V section (filled with LME49720NA) and LPF (OPA2134) to fill...


----------



## JustinGN

While I wait for my HD800's from Colorware (week six and counting...), I've been looking over a new DAC/AMP combo to replace my old Fiio E17/E9 setup.  I was dead set on the Schiit Valhalla and Bifrost w/ USB, but then I stumbled on the Essence One when the ads were plastered over the forums.  Being a computer geek, I know ASUS does great work with motherboards and PCs (well, good work on the PCs, great to fabulous on the motherboards), but I've always been wary of their Xonar stuff, considering the massive letdown I had with my old Creative X-Fi gear and its (terrible) quality.
   
  Cutting to the chase, for anyone who A) has owned both combinations of the ASUS Essence One and the Schiit Valhalla/Bifrost *OR *B) uses the Essence One with Sennheiser HD800's, I'm curious what your opinion is on the matter.  I kinda skipped the from Grado SR60s to Sennheiser HD 555s and now to the HD800s, so I'm lacking a lot of that tweaking experience many Head-Fi'ers seem to build up at that time.  The Essence seems like the better choice for me personally, since it gives me something I can tweak to suit my tastes over time, whereas the Valhalla and Bifrost don't (the Valhalla supports tube rolling in newer models, but they get really expensive, and really hot).  It also seems a little more PC oriented than the Valhalla/Bifrost, which is my main listening area for headphones.
   
  In addition to opinions from the above, I also have another question: should I plunge for the MUSE edition, or stick to the basic package and grab OP-AMPS as needed?  6moons seemed to say MUSE was the way to go if I couldn't find the One Plus (I can't), but at $900 (vs $550 basic), it's a bit more than my budget, especially since I'm just using the headphone amp stage, not the XLR/RCA stages (So I assume I only need two of the six MUSE OP-AMPs).
   
  Thoughts?  Am I asking for too much at too low a price, considering the cans this will have to drive?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





averruncus said:


> The LME49710s (2 pairs on HP buffers)... Wow, they really seemed to have transformed my E1. The depth and width of the soundstage, the separation and detail,l really brings out the excitement of being an audiophile (thanks again to Tim for the recommendations!). Still a bit too forward with my HE500, but better with aggressive songs now. Really makes one wonder how much better the MUSEs can get...
> 
> Still, I have a whole I/V section (filled with LME49720NA) and LPF (OPA2134) to fill...


 
  Did you make a comparison to the lme49720ha? I have the problem with the 49720ha that while it sounds nice it sounds too thin and the treble is a bit too loud. I am currently using the ad797br in i/v, the lme49860 in lpf and 49720ha in buffer, that sounds quite balanced.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





justingn said:


> While I wait for my HD800's from Colorware (week six and counting...), I've been looking over a new DAC/AMP combo to replace my old Fiio E17/E9 setup.  I was dead set on the Schiit Valhalla and Bifrost w/ USB, but then I stumbled on the Essence One when the ads were plastered over the forums.  Being a computer geek, I know ASUS does great work with motherboards and PCs (well, good work on the PCs, great to fabulous on the motherboards), but I've always been wary of their Xonar stuff, considering the massive letdown I had with my old Creative X-Fi gear and its (terrible) quality.
> 
> Cutting to the chase, for anyone who A) has owned both combinations of the ASUS Essence One and the Schiit Valhalla/Bifrost *OR *B) uses the Essence One with Sennheiser HD800's, I'm curious what your opinion is on the matter.  I kinda skipped the from Grado SR60s to Sennheiser HD 555s and now to the HD800s, so I'm lacking a lot of that tweaking experience many Head-Fi'ers seem to build up at that time.  The Essence seems like the better choice for me personally, since it gives me something I can tweak to suit my tastes over time, whereas the Valhalla and Bifrost don't (the Valhalla supports tube rolling in newer models, but they get really expensive, and really hot).  It also seems a little more PC oriented than the Valhalla/Bifrost, which is my main listening area for headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  If you don´t need the gain switch for IEM-s then you can get the normal asus one and upgrade the op-s as needed. You can try some free TI samples before you buy the muses to test some possibilities. Even if you use the headphone output you still need 6 muses op-s. The DAC part of the Asus is very good, the headphone amp is good too but not the best, so there is some upgrade potential there.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





averruncus said:


> The LME49710s (2 pairs on HP buffers)... Wow, they really seemed to have transformed my E1. The depth and width of the soundstage, the separation and detail,l really brings out the excitement of being an audiophile (thanks again to Tim for the recommendations!). Still a bit too forward with my HE500, but better with aggressive songs now. Really makes one wonder how much better the MUSEs can get...
> 
> Still, I have a whole I/V section (filled with LME49720NA) and LPF (OPA2134) to fill...


 
  I'm very glad you were able to hear the immediate differences. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Detail/Separation and the whole sound stage flavor really comes forward doesn't it. It's pretty clear/crisp on the HE-500 in terms of forwardness, which will be somewhat strange at first, since i found the HE-500 to be more relaxing in presentation, so with the new upbringing, it may sound like a HE-400 mixture.
   
  Oh i forgot, you don't have the muses!
  That's even more awesome now to know that you heard a difference without the muses01's, because it was hard for me to hear the difference in the LME49710HA's without them (NE5532 & OPA627 in I/V and LFP)
   
  If you ever swap to the muses, you'll find a better sound stage, detail, separation, and high transparency difference.
  The opinions i give could be different than yours, since i mainly concluded this after having my WIMA Film Capacitors switched to the better FKP Series, along with the Sanyo Polymer Capacitor being swapped out with the Nichicon FP Series Polymer (which Schiit apparently uses).
   
  Oh, and you won't ever need heat-sinks on the 10HA's, they barely get warm.
  Quote: 





justingn said:


> While I wait for my HD800's from Colorware (week six and counting...), I've been looking over a new DAC/AMP combo to replace my old Fiio E17/E9 setup.  I was dead set on the Schiit Valhalla and Bifrost w/ USB, but then I stumbled on the Essence One when the ads were plastered over the forums.  Being a computer geek, I know ASUS does great work with motherboards and PCs (well, good work on the PCs, great to fabulous on the motherboards), but I've always been wary of their Xonar stuff, considering the massive letdown I had with my old Creative X-Fi gear and its (terrible) quality.
> 
> Cutting to the chase, for anyone who A) has owned both combinations of the ASUS Essence One and the Schiit Valhalla/Bifrost *OR *B) uses the Essence One with Sennheiser HD800's, I'm curious what your opinion is on the matter.  I kinda skipped the from Grado SR60s to Sennheiser HD 555s and now to the HD800s, so I'm lacking a lot of that tweaking experience many Head-Fi'ers seem to build up at that time.  The Essence seems like the better choice for me personally, since it gives me something I can tweak to suit my tastes over time, whereas the Valhalla and Bifrost don't (the Valhalla supports tube rolling in newer models, but they get really expensive, and really hot).  It also seems a little more PC oriented than the Valhalla/Bifrost, which is my main listening area for headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  I've had the Biforst, Asgard, and LYR with stock tubes. All three sounded good, Asgard, being the weaker out of the trio. 
  Having switched to the Essence One, which was around the same level playing field,Asgard fell out of the picture, and ended up leaving my collection.
   
  LYR was still up there in terms of driving power. I've had bad experiences with tubes (with Maverick D1/D2/A1), so being personal opinion based, i didn't bother getting new tubes for the LYR and let go of it. The Valhalla lies on the same line, so i ended up letting go of that too.
   
  Bifrost, i just love love. Sounds very good, but when you consider it with a USB input, the price sinks you in quick-sand. Essence One not being so far in price, however you get a DAC just as good sounding, XLR Balance output, RCA whenever you need it, a well regulated/linear power supply, and a nice headphone amplifier capable of even driving HE-500 Orthodynamic Headphones.  HD-800 i have tried on it only twice, and sounds wonderful (the setup that i have). You might have to roll a few op-amps until you're settled into a cozy spot. HD-800 i generally liked better with warmer op-amps. (more bass hitting and smoother treble).
   
  As for the MUSES01 op-amp concerns, you'll have to buy six, as those op-amps in the LFP & I/V (6 of them), affects all outputs, so if you use 2 muses01 instead of 6, you'll most likely not hear the improvements that ASUS had espy to be "good" enough for them to include it into their extended model release.
   
  P.S. That's one hell of an upgrade. Going from 555's to the 800 is like maniacal.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





justingn said:


> While I wait for my HD800's from Colorware (week six and counting...), I've been looking over a new DAC/AMP combo to replace my old Fiio E17/E9 setup.  I was dead set on the Schiit Valhalla and Bifrost w/ USB, but then I stumbled on the Essence One when the ads were plastered over the forums.  Being a computer geek, I know ASUS does great work with motherboards and PCs (well, good work on the PCs, great to fabulous on the motherboards), but I've always been wary of their Xonar stuff, considering the massive letdown I had with my old Creative X-Fi gear and its (terrible) quality.
> 
> Cutting to the chase, for anyone who A) has owned both combinations of the ASUS Essence One and the Schiit Valhalla/Bifrost *OR *B) uses the Essence One with Sennheiser HD800's, I'm curious what your opinion is on the matter.  I kinda skipped the from Grado SR60s to Sennheiser HD 555s and now to the HD800s, so I'm lacking a lot of that tweaking experience many Head-Fi'ers seem to build up at that time.  The Essence seems like the better choice for me personally, since it gives me something I can tweak to suit my tastes over time, whereas the Valhalla and Bifrost don't (the Valhalla supports tube rolling in newer models, but they get really expensive, and really hot).  It also seems a little more PC oriented than the Valhalla/Bifrost, which is my main listening area for headphones.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey JustinGN and welcome!
   
  I more than happy to give you my thoughts about the Essence One.
  I own the HD 800 for over a year now. I used to amp them with the Fiio E9 as well and I pretty much enjoyed that combination (especially for their price - the amp of course^^). But after quite some time I was looking for an improvement over the Fiio E9. I have tried the Lehmann Audio Rhinelander and the Xonar STX, both were quite the some sounding as the Fiio E9 or worse. I knew I had to spend more on an amp to actually hear an improvement. So I had an eye on the more "higher-end" amplifiers out there such as the Lehmann Audio Black Cube Linear, Woo Audio and some more (sorry I forgot their names).
   
  Luckely I've came across the Xonar Essence One. Freshly announced an all in one amplifier with swappable opamps and an extremly low price for their specs. I have ordered my E1 from Amazon for about 340 euros only. Amazon Marketplace, used but good as new (just the package got opened once but I think the device never actually got used once 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) .
  As I'm mainly listening to electronic music I wanted to have bit more bass emphasis in my music and an overall smoother sound over the Fiio E9 - the E9 always were a bit to harsh and fatiguing to my ears. I still got them though. For 1:1 comparision for example 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I can tell you, the E1 delivers! They are such a great match with the HD 800 you will love them. Lack of bass on the HD 800 almost everyone is talking about? Not with the E1. The Sennies are very amp picky thats for sure and I think they may best harmonize with a tube amp as well. The HD 800 (for my ears), need an amp that produces a more smoother and analog sound just what a tube amp delivers (in theory). It's diffrent with solid-state-amps as they normally tend to be more "harsh" for the ears but the Essence One is an exception! The built in NE5532's opamps on the stock E1 delivers a really nice warm sound, less fatiguing over the Fiio E9 and a more deeper bass. I even find myself not touching the Equilizer anymore as I used to on the Fiio E9!
   
  So my recommandation is, go with the standard Essence One and if you feel like you want to step a bit higher, change the opamps on them (you will find tons of reviews from users on which combination sounds best and which not). And if you want to test the sound on the MUSES, you can easily buy the MUSES 01 opamps later and save yourself some money too! Don't worry we will explain you how to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Many head-fiers upgraded their standard E1 to a MUSES later (*stares at Tim 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*).
  There's just one reason why you would need an original E1 Muses Edition - 1. if you desperately need a gain switcher (for IEM especially) and 2. you prefer the black chime tiger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Hope I (we) could help you a little with your choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *cssarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You might have to roll a few op-amps until you're settled into a cozy spot. HD-800 i generally liked better with warmer op-amps. (more bass hitting and smoother treble).
> 
> *Tim*


 

 THIS!


----------



## acidic

kenion said:


> Hey JustinGN and welcome!
> 
> I more than happy to give you my thoughts about the Essence One.
> I own the HD 800 for over a year now. I used to amp them with the Fiio E9 as well and I pretty much enjoyed that combination (especially for their price - the amp of course^^). But after quite some time I was looking for an improvement over the Fiio E9. I have tried the Lehmann Audio Rhinelander and the Xonar STX, both were quite the some sounding as the Fiio E9 or worse. I knew I had to spend more on an amp to actually hear an improvement. So I had an eye on the more "higher-end" amplifiers out there such as the Lehmann Audio Black Cube Linear, Woo Audio and some more (sorry I forgot their names).
> ...




That's very true and I'm one of the user that's heading the muses direction. I need the gain jumper feature (not the black tiger - ha!) for my JH16pro but its not in my base version of E1. I tried online searching and looking at those muses version internal view also can't find that gain jumper. Does this jumper actually exist during the final production for muses E1? Even the asus official website didn't state this feature.... Hmmm...


----------



## JustinGN

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> You can try some free TI samples before you buy the muses to test some possibilities.


 
   
  I keep hearing about these free samples.  I'm going to Google and see what I can find, but in the interim, does anyone have the direct link off-hand that I can reference?
   
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> There's just one reason why you would need an original E1 Muses Edition - 1. if you desperately need a gain switcher (for IEM especially) and 2. you prefer the black chime tiger


 
   
  By IEM, I'm assuming you mean In-Ear Monitors, and that's not an issue. IEM's are absolutely painful for me to wear for any length of time, so I ditch them or give them away as soon as I get 'em in new portable players and the like.  The Earpods by Apple were far more comfortable, and I think a custom-molded pair of IEMs could do a world of good, but I'd rather put that money towards a proper Hi-Fi or more gear! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> P.S. That's one hell of an upgrade. Going from 555's to the 800 is like maniacal.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  That's partly why I'm a little concerned about my current setup! The irony here being that I'm willing to drop ~$2k on the HD800s and an Essence One, but I balk at the $1000 needed to build a new PC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for the advice though!


----------



## cssarrow

If you look at the new Fiio Mont Blanc's Flagship portable amplifier, specifically the interior specifications, it seems like a miniature portable Essence One.
  Just with the battery rather than the toroidal transformer.
   

 *Wima Capacitors*
 *NEC/TOKIN UC2 Low Signal Relays*
 *LME49600 Operational Amplfier*
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





justingn said:


> I keep hearing about these free samples.  I'm going to Google and see what I can find, but in the interim, does anyone have the direct link off-hand that I can reference?
> 
> 
> By IEM, I'm assuming you mean In-Ear Monitors, and that's not an issue. IEM's are absolutely painful for me to wear for any length of time, so I ditch them or give them away as soon as I get 'em in new portable players and the like.  The Earpods by Apple were far more comfortable, and I think a custom-molded pair of IEMs could do a world of good, but I'd rather put that money towards a proper Hi-Fi or more gear!
> ...


 
   
  If money is an issue, I wouldn't consider buying the HD 800 just yet. They are diffrent headphones out there that will make your ears happy, just have a look around. If you wan't something similar to the HD 800 for a lower price, you may consider the HD600/650.
  The HD800 is indeed an expensive piece of gear. You should try to find a retailer where you can try all these diffrent headphones out and form your own opinion - then you can tell if they are worth the extra


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> If you look at the new Fiio Mont Blanc's Flagship portable amplifier, specifically the interior specifications, it seems like a miniature portable Essence One.
> Just with the battery rather than the toroidal transformer.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, the Mont Blanc looks sexy for a portable amp! Thanks for the info!
  Are they available yet? I can't seem to find them on the internet for sale.
   
  -- Ah, I see...
  "The Pre order unit will be delivered before 10th , Jan, 2013 and we will carry some to CES."
  Nevermind


----------



## JustinGN

Quote: 





kenion said:


> If money is an issue, I wouldn't consider buying the HD 800 just yet.


 
   
  Oh, it's not an issue, it's just part of my personality.  I tried the HD 800's at PAX East last year, and thought the Colorware price for them was a steal with a custom paint job (now if they'd just deliver them...).  I saved up for months in order to buy them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But part of my personality is value vs price. For $1500 for the HD 800s, they're something I expect to get several years (even decades) worth of use out of.  With the Essence One, I'm looking at a five year or more lifecycle before new or compelling technology mandates an upgrade.  With a PC, I'm looking at six months to a year before it's outdated, which is why I balk at the $1000 price tag for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I've spent a heck of a lot more on my 5.1 B&W system, and I expect to keep that around just as long (if not longer) than my HD800s.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kenion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Many head-fiers upgraded their standard E1 to a MUSES later (*stares at Tim
> 
> 
> ...


 

  I didn't just upgrade it, i changed it into a _*FIRE BREATHING DRAGON!*_
  Still working on the PCI-E Custom Cable so pictures are not out yet.
   
  & i hear that the golden chime tiger is actually gold plated or sprayed with actual gold, so it should make you feel more of a baller (pimp/swag/woot woot/yolo)
   


justingn said:


> I keep hearing about these free samples.  I'm going to Google and see what I can find, but in the interim, does anyone have the direct link off-hand that I can reference?
> 
> 
> By IEM, I'm assuming you mean In-Ear Monitors, and that's not an issue. IEM's are absolutely painful for me to wear for any length of time, so I ditch them or give them away as soon as I get 'em in new portable players and the like.  The Earpods by Apple were far more comfortable, and I think a custom-molded pair of IEMs could do a world of good, but I'd rather put that money towards a proper Hi-Fi or more gear!
> ...


 
   You can contact Texas Instruments for samples. Just only ask for 3-5 and say for the purpose.
  You'll have to understand, Music/Audio is a lot more future proof than computer parts, so just tell yourself that it was perfectly ok. 
  Just look at when the HD-800 and Essence was originally released. Look at today's date and see what new "upgrades" they have. 
  Close to none right? PC's generally get faster every 18 months (Moore's Law), so again, it's ok. I just bought GTX680's awhile ago, and now already preparing for ther 7XX Series.
   


   
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> If money is an issue, I wouldn't consider buying the HD 800 just yet. They are diffrent headphones out there that will make your ears happy, just have a look around. If you wan't something similar to the HD 800 for a lower price, you may consider the HD600/650.
> The HD800 is indeed an expensive piece of gear. You should try to find a retailer where you can try all these diffrent headphones out and form your own opinion - then you can tell if they are worth the extra


 
  Test beforeee trynaaaa getttt.
  IMO planars sound better, so i'd get a used LCD-2 for $780, however the HD-800 is the best dynamic i've ever heard.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I didn't just upgrade it, i changed it into a _*FIRE BREATHING DRAGON!*_


 
  PICTURES OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  All we got to see from you so far, were close-ups from your E1 scrambled into thousend pieces! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> & i hear that the golden chime tiger is actually gold plated or sprayed with actual gold, so it should make you feel more of a baller (pimp/swag/woot woot/yolo)


 
   

   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> IMO planars sound better, so i'd get a used LCD-2 for $780, however the HD-800 is the best dynamic i've ever heard.


 
  Man, I would kill for a used pair of LCD-2's for only 780 bucks!


----------



## cssarrow

Pretty sure i did post them!
   
  Still have to make a few minor updates such as the PCI-E Cable & EMI Shield.
   
  EMI Shield is consist of copper/aluminum EMI Tape.
  Toroidal Transformer is extremely close to the Audio board and Linear Power Supply Circuit.
  It will not affect the Power Supply, but will be bad for audio circuits.
  Look at the Centrance DACmini for example, they have two large machined aluminum walls to help block emi from their audio circuit.
   


kenion said:


> Man, I would kill for a used pair of LCD-2's for only 780 bucks!


 

   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/592942/fs-audeze-lcd-2-rev-2-price-revision
  I'm about to grab this one, hopefully it will make a good addition to my HE-400/HE-500 collection.
  Afterwards, i'm going for the HD-800.
  Planning on selling the HE-400 later on.
  HE-500/Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2/HD-800 is what i want.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

So I found an article on opamps that had a specific section on the AD797 and its output distortion compensation. Apparently the AD797B was designed to have a 50pF capacitor connected between pins 6 and 8. So that's what I did.
   

   
  Yes, I also installed a fan. Turns out when you take the voltage selector switch off of its mount the space it occupied is perfect for a small fan.
   
  As far as the mod goes I can say that I honestly believe that I have tamed the AD797 on the Essence One. The sound quality, at least to me, has improved all around.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/592942/fs-audeze-lcd-2-rev-2-price-revision
> I'm about to grab this one, hopefully it will make a good addition to my HE-400/HE-500 collection.
> Afterwards, i'm going for the HD-800.
> Planning on selling the HE-400 later on.
> ...


 
   
  Go for it! Owning both the LCD2/3 and the HD-800 is, i think, everyones dream as they are both gods in their own territory 
   
  I always wanted to test the Audeze headphones, unfortunately there appears to be that almost no retailer nearby has them available.
  I've heared they have a dark sound signature, excellent bass and somewhat forgiving with the material - just what I'm looking for.
  However, there are rumors that say the LCD 2 Rev.1 were quite uncomfortable and the LCD 3 is the most comfortable out of them all - comfort is most importance for me.
   
  My plan is, as I'll be visiting Manila,Philippines from 28.Feb - 19.March: I will head to the official Audeze-reseller in Manila ( http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Listening-Room-Philippines/166737056702469 ) try the LCD 3's out there (they got them in stock) and if Iike em, I will probably buy them from there.
   
  Ordering them online from Audeze isn't possible to Germany and if I would buy them used from anywhere outside Eurpope, I may have to pay a riddiculous amount of taxes.
  Buying them in Germany isn't an option... Here they charge you 1,000 Euro's for the LCD 2 (~1,351 USD) and 2,000 Euro's for the LCD 3 (~2,700 USD)...
   
  I will let you know If choose to buy them from there. If I did, I will most certainly sell you my trusty HD 800's! - unfortunately, I can't own them both or some not-so-mysterious person will come to my house and murder me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> So I found an article on opamps that had a specific section on the AD797 and its output distortion compensation. Apparently the AD797B was designed to have a 50pF capacitor connected between pins 6 and 8. So that's what I did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow! Good job on "taming" the AD797's. I would love to know how to do that on my E1.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> So I found an article on opamps that had a specific section on the AD797 and its output distortion compensation. Apparently the AD797B was designed to have a 50pF capacitor connected between pins 6 and 8. So that's what I did.
> 
> Yes, I also installed a fan. Turns out when you take the voltage selector switch off of its mount the space it occupied is perfect for a small fan.
> 
> As far as the mod goes I can say that I honestly believe that I have tamed the AD797 on the Essence One. The sound quality, at least to me, has improved all around.


 
  Is there any negatives to having a small 50mm fan like that?
  Would it affect audio parts having a wind pressure running through the essence?
  If not, then i'll do the same. That's pretty much the perfect spot for a fan, and i have thought about doing that.
  The power supply heat-sink is the hottest part of the essence one, and having a fan to exhaust the heat would do a lot of justice.
  What RPM do you have your fan set to?
   
  & it looks like you have the Chinese polyester film capacitors. 50pF is sufficient?
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> Go for it! Owning both the LCD2/3 and the HD-800 is, i think, everyones dream as they are both gods in their own territory
> 
> I always wanted to test the Audeze headphones, unfortunately there appears to be that almost no retailer nearby has them available.
> I've heared they have a dark sound signature, excellent bass and somewhat forgiving with the material - just what I'm looking for.
> ...


 
  I've decided not to get a LCD-3.
  Just HIFIMAN HE-500 / Audeze LCD-2 / Sennheiser HD-800 and one IEM for on the go listening.
  Afraid it would be amp picky like the HE-6.
  I also hear that it's the most comfortable, and best sounding.
  Words on the street, says that the Rev.2 is better than Rev.1.
   
  If you ever get it, i'd be more than happy to take the HD-800 off your hands. I'm not that sceptical about used parts.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

It's just a 12V 0.07A fan, I have no idea what RPM it run at, I just had it in a box of random parts. As for wind pressure there's none in the audio handling section. The fan only creates a slight amount of pressure at its exhaust and is whisper quiet so it can't be running more than 1200rpm. All it really does is help pull some heat away from the power supply section. As for the capacitors I used look closely at the front section of the I/V opamps you'll see two little ceramic disks, one for each individual opamp.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> It's just a 12V 0.07A fan, I have no idea what RPM it run at, I just had it in a box of random parts. As for wind pressure there's none in the audio handling section. The fan only creates a slight amount of pressure at its exhaust and is whisper quiet so it can't be running more than 1200rpm. All it really does is help pull some heat away from the power supply section. As for the capacitors I used look closely at the front section of the I/V opamps you'll see two little ceramic disks, one for each individual opamp.


 
  oooh. i see it now. ceramic to handle the HF. Nice.
  It's a 50mm fan though right? Just to be one hundred perfect sure, so that i can grab one.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> oooh. i see it now. ceramic to handle the HF. Nice.
> It's a 50mm fan though right? Just to be one hundred perfect sure, so that i can grab one.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  Looked up the part number on the fan. Using this: http://www.amazon.com/Scythe-Mini-Ultra-Silent-SY124020L/dp/B0016CMCBG. Actually spins at 3,500rpm. Can barely hear the thing though.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> 40mm


 
  Thank You! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

no one.. response to my muses gain jumper question.... that's sad...


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> no one.. response to my muses gain jumper question.... that's sad...


 
  I noticed it, but since i don't have a legit muses, so i can't take photos even if i wanted to.
   
  Let's wait for turokrocks to get his, it's already being shipped.
   
  We'll see if he's able to get a picture taken of the gain switch.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> So I found an article on opamps that had a specific section on the AD797 and its output distortion compensation. Apparently the AD797B was designed to have a 50pF capacitor connected between pins 6 and 8. So that's what I did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My 100mF capacitors on the ad797 didn´t worked, it didn´t help the sound. I am going to try 220nF later. What op are you using for the buffer? The 49720 is a bad combination if it is also used in the lpf.


----------



## acidic

cssarrow said:


> I noticed it, but since i don't have a legit muses, so i can't take photos even if i wanted to.
> 
> Let's wait for turokrocks to get his, it's already being shipped.
> 
> ...




Thanks Tim...  but I thought there were a few more muses user in this thread.... I could be wrong. 

Lets wait then....


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Thanks Tim...  but I thought there were a few more muses user in this thread.... I could be wrong.
> 
> Lets wait then....


 

 Thats unfortunate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Turockrock is also the only one I know of that got/will get the muses ed. However, I am sure there are some more users following this thread right now but haven't replied to it - or simply aren't registred to head-fi just yet


----------



## acidic

kenion said:


> Thats unfortunate  Turockrock is also the only one I know of that got/will get the muses ed. However, I am sure there are some more users following this thread right now but haven't replied to it - or simply aren't registred to head-fi just yet




Hi Kenion, me too... I register to this particular thread just to find out about this. Though I already monitor and read all your postings from day one. Ha!

Turockrock.... It's now back to u.... as the only hope. 

It's just weird that I can't find any info about this gain jumper anywhere, google all sorts of photos and website - no go as to where its located. Did a one to one internal comparison with base/plus vs muses, also can't tell the difference. Also even the official muses E1 manual is nowhere to be found... Including official asus website. I got a feeling its a simple solution that doesn't require much mod on the E1 board. But still have to see the real thing to confirm that.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Hi Kenion, me too... I register to this particular thread just to find out about this. Though I already monitor and read all your postings from day one. Ha!
> 
> Turockrock.... It's now back to u.... as the only hope.
> 
> It's just weird that I can't find any info about this gain jumper anywhere, google all sorts of photos and website - no go as to where its located. Did a one to one internal comparison with base/plus vs muses, also can't tell the difference. Also even the official muses E1 manual is nowhere to be found... Including official asus website. I got a feeling its a simple solution that doesn't require much mod on the E1 board. But still have to see the real thing to confirm that.


 

 http://www.facebook.com/xonar.asus?ref=ts&fref=ts
  Leave them a message. I do that quite regular and they always respond to me there.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

The gain jumper is near the headphone section of the MUSES unit. From what I know, it's not really mod friendly (circuit gain will be set by SMT resistors) and the jumper pads won't be part of the standard or plus edition PCB (a PCB revision was made for the jumper).


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Hi Kenion, me too... I register to this particular thread just to find out about this. Though I already monitor and read all your postings from day one. Ha!
> 
> Turockrock.... It's now back to u.... as the only hope.
> 
> It's just weird that I can't find any info about this gain jumper anywhere, google all sorts of photos and website - no go as to where its located. Did a one to one internal comparison with base/plus vs muses, also can't tell the difference. Also even the official muses E1 manual is nowhere to be found... Including official asus website. I got a feeling its a simple solution that doesn't require much mod on the E1 board. But still have to see the real thing to confirm that.


 
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I noticed it, but since i don't have a legit muses, so i can't take photos even if i wanted to.
> 
> Let's wait for turokrocks to get his, it's already being shipped.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





acidic said:


> Thanks Tim...  but I thought there were a few more muses user in this thread.... I could be wrong.
> 
> Lets wait then....


 
   
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> Thats unfortunate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Guys...I am feeling the pressure...its too much....


----------



## vourt

I was right into buying the Muses new Xonar One edition for my Denon AH-D7100 headphones but then found that there is a new version of Soloist amp on the market - the Soloist SL.
   
  I will be happy to hear any tip or experience from people here!
   
  Thanks.
   
  http://bursonaudio.com/Burson_Soloist_SL.html


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Guys...I am feeling the pressure...its too much....


 

 I dare you! You better explain us the *meaning of life* asap!


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I dare you! You better explain us the *meaning of life* asap!


 
  ....Having members like you, give life a new meaning.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## acidic

kenion said:


> http://www.facebook.com/xonar.asus?ref=ts&fref=ts
> Leave them a message. I do that quite regular and they always respond to me there.




Noted with thanks. 

I guess one of the representative from asus just replied one post after yours.


----------



## acidic

asusxonar said:


> The gain jumper is near the headphone section of the MUSES unit. From what I know, it's not really mod friendly (circuit gain will be set by SMT resistors) and the jumper pads won't be part of the standard or plus edition PCB (a PCB revision was made for the jumper).




Hi asus!

Thanks for your special appearance and response to my inquiry. 

Due to the location where I'm from (Singapore), there is a MOQ imposed to our distro which makes it difficult for them to bring in E1 muses. As such, i'm left with few options - either I parallel import one without warranty or get an E1 base version (with warranty) and mod it to muses. 

I already chosen the latter and done with getting the muses 01 opamp. However the next mod which is the gain control now may seems a tad too difficult for me to implement. I might have to look at the schematic or replicate that portion of the revised PCB onto a stripe board or self fabricate and get the necessary parts, e.g. Jumper switch, Resistors (non-SMT) and hardwired that small PCB into my PCB. Which is why I need to find out more before executing this in real time.


----------



## acidic

turokrocks said:


> Guys...I am feeling the pressure...its too much...
> 
> .




Sorry about the pressure bud.... But my guess is that you (yourself) can't wait to get your hands on this baby as well - right? Hahaha


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Why not get the unit first and see if you actually need to change the gain (may find you have enough range)? No point in doing anything this complex if you don't. The gain jumper was only added for very sensitive IEMs, which not everyone uses at home. Put simply, if you don't need lower gain, there's no need to mod the unit so extensively. If it were me I'd likely get by with software level volume control as well (Foobar) etc.
   
  Your case is a little difficult due to your location - either way, hardmods like these invalidate warranty, so you need to weigh up if importing (same warranty issue) is the better option if you must have gain I suppose. Good Luck!
   
   
  Quote: 





acidic said:


> Hi asus!
> 
> Thanks for your special appearance and response to my inquiry.
> 
> ...


----------



## acidic

asusxonar said:


> Why not get the unit first and see if you actually need to change the gain (may find you have enough range)? No point in doing anything this complex if you don't. The gain jumper was only added for very sensitive IEMs, which not everyone uses at home. Put simply, if you don't need lower gain, there's no need to mod the unit so extensively. If it were me I'd likely get by with software level volume control as well (Foobar) etc.
> 
> Your case is a little difficult due to your location - either way, hardmods like these invalidate warranty, so you need to weigh up if importing (same warranty issue) is the better option if you must have gain I suppose. Good Luck!




Hi there,

I'm using a pretty sensitive iem JH16pro and I already tested with it without the gain control in the E1 base version. It doesn't have the range that I can control - simply put it - the headphone pot of the E1 is too powerful hence covering up most details in the iem. I need something to "stretch" or "thin" the volume. 

I also tried foobar gain but it sounds a little "static" or not natural to me. Maybe it just me that's feeling that. 

Anyway just curious, is there any after market adaptor that can lower the gain via a headphone jack?

Thanks for your advice and information, appreciated!


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Sorry about the pressure bud.... But my guess is that you (yourself) can't wait to get your hands on this baby as well - right? Hahaha


 
   
   






............


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I dare you! You better explain us the *meaning of life* asap!


 
  Not sure if you're serious, but i do have a 10 PG paper on the meaning of life, i labeled Animus of Life which was done in my high school days.
  All cited and everything. muahaha.
  Quote: 





acidic said:


> Hi asus!
> 
> Thanks for your special appearance and response to my inquiry.
> 
> ...


 
  Surely can be done if they provide you with the schematic.
  I would even do myself, if only i had some more relevant information on it, so that would put us in the same boat.


----------



## Kenion

@ Tim
   
  "_*Headphones:*_
Audeze LCD-2"
   
I see what you did there 




  Gratulation on your new pair of headphones! Let us know what you think when use together with the E1 - So far I've only heared good things with this combo. They seem to drive them really well and add some nice fun-factor to them


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> @ Tim
> 
> "_*Headphones:*_
> Audeze LCD-2"
> ...


 
  The LCD-2 is easy to drive and isn't as picky as the HD-800 and LCD-3, which was why i got it.
   
  I'll be sure to let you know how the two meshes.
   
  By the way, your monkey avatar is freaking cool. Out of this world.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> The LCD-2 is easy to drive and isn't as picky as the HD-800 and LCD-3, which was why i got it.
> 
> I'll be sure to let you know how the two meshes.
> 
> ...


 

*Hey!!!* I'm no *Monkey* - I'm *FLAT ERIC*!
   

   
*Look me in the eyes (my avatar)... look very closely... *
  ...
  ...
*YES, look CLOSER*!
   
*Now say my name!*
*FFFFFLAT ERIC!*




   
  NOW LET'S KICK IT, TOGETHER!


----------



## cssarrow

Who's your crack supplier nowadays?


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Who's your crack supplier nowadays?


 
   
  Crack?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Not me... I wouldn't do such "illegal" things! NEVER!
   

   
   
  Anyway, let's get back to topic


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Crack?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OH! So it's that KIND of party.
   
   

   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> OH! So it's that KIND of party.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   


   
  BTW: Why is this thread been so quiet right after our "special party"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





acidic said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm using a pretty sensitive iem JH16pro and I already tested with it without the gain control in the E1 base version. It doesn't have the range that I can control - simply put it - the headphone pot of the E1 is too powerful hence covering up most details in the iem. I need something to "stretch" or "thin" the volume.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just order the E1 Muses Ed. right away and if you don't like it, send it back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'm sure you will be more than pleased with your new toy though


----------



## cssarrow

I don't know why, but most of the time, when i post, it immediately gets quiet. I think i have bad luck.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I don't know why, but most of the time, when i post, it immediately gets quiet. I think i have bad luck.
> 
> *Tim*


 

 I think your posts are lacking emoticons


----------



## acidic

kenion said:


> Just order the E1 Muses Ed. right away and if you don't like it, send it back
> I'm sure you will be more than pleased with your new toy though :basshead:




I wish I could - but most online store don't ship out of US and it will cost a bomb for the shipping due to the weight of it plus the 7% custom tax that I need to pay for this to enter Singapore. 

Life sux dude... Hmmm


----------



## acidic

cssarrow said:


> I don't know why, but most of the time, when i post, it immediately gets quiet. I think i have bad luck.
> 
> *Tim*




Not quite... Maybe it's just that no one could answer you back for your comments? Lol


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Not quite... Maybe it's just that no one could answer you back for your comments? Lol


 
  You may be on to something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Got to use these icons to be people friendly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You haven't found a place for the Essence yet?
  Why not ask someone to buy it and ship it to you?
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

cssarrow said:


> You may be on to something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm using either my iPhone or iPad mini to correspond in here.... How to get these emoticon mobile mode?

Hmm.... Can I entrust you in helping me to get the muses E1 then?


----------



## acidic

-Double post-


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> I'm using either my iPhone or iPad mini to correspond in here.... How to get these emoticon mobile mode?
> 
> Hmm.... Can I entrust you in helping me to get the muses E1 then?


 
  I was going to do that for Turok, but he was able to get it somewhere on ebay.
   
  You should try the same place first, until asking me.
  I'm the final destination.
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

cssarrow said:


> I was going to do that for Turok, but he was able to get it somewhere on ebay.
> 
> You should try the same place first, until asking me.
> I'm the final destination.
> ...




I already tried searching everywhere online.... eBay is too expensive and it's US based so shipping charges and declaration for my custom tax still applies. 

Never mind - I'm just asking in a lighthearted manner. Didn't expect to trouble you on this either Tim.


----------



## cssarrow

Didn't think my words were harsh, must have been read differently on your side.
   
  Check your inbox.
   
*Tim*


----------



## cssarrow

Just le me, messing around with the Heat-Sinks.
   




   
  Had some time to kill.
   

   

   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Just le me, messing around with the Heat-Sinks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I wish I had your "Know how".
  Your Asus Maximus IV, is becoming nicer and nicer.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I wish I had your "Know how".
> Your Asus Maximus IV, is becoming nicer and nicer.


 
  Should be fairly simple since you know Computer Skills.
   
  You probably have a lot of skills in mounting heat-sinks for your computer.
  Same process here. Put thermal paste, slap them on.
   
  The silver plated wire is only there to hold the heat-sinks down so that micro-gaps are limited.
  Also, benefit of using the SP wire, is there won't be as bad oxidation as copper.
   




   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Should be fairly simple since you know Computer Skills.
> 
> You probably have a lot of skills in mounting heat-sinks for your computer.
> Same process here. Put thermal paste, slap them on.
> ...


 
   
  Maybe the skills are there , what is missing is lots of courage...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  The Muses is about 2 days away (and If the customs decide to help).


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Maybe the skills are there , what is missing is lots of courage...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's Great News!
   
  Would love to hear your impressions.
  Let's see whether or not our opinions are in sync.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> That's Great News!
> 
> Would love to hear your impressions.
> Let's see whether or not our opinions are in sync.
> ...


 
  Tim, I really hope so.
  I favored the Muses for the Compass2 from Audio-gd , and I hope I made the right decision....


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Just le me, messing around with the Heat-Sinks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  While you are playing with the power supply you could swap the -12v voltage regulator for one with more ripple rejection like the lm317


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> While you are playing with the power supply you could swap the -12v voltage regulator for one with more ripple rejection like the lm317


 
  Swap the National -12 P+ LM2990T (JM13ABE3) for the LM317?
   
  There's is three overall
   
*Left Side: *
_National JM13ABE3  LM2990T  -12 P+_
   
*Right Side:*
_National PM13AFE3  LM2940CT -12 p+_
_National PM14ABE3  LM294OCT -5.0 p+_
   
  Let me know which ones are the best, and i'll put them in.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

The LM29990 is negative voltage regulator so this can be replaced with lm337, the lm2940 can be replaced with lm317.
   
Actually they are no direct replacements because the lm2990 and 40 are fixed power regulators while the lm317 and 337 are not, so it would need additional circuit elements for setting the voltage.


----------



## cssarrow

Guess that's the conclusion of that. LOL.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

I have removed the LME49990's from the I/V. I just couldn't stand those everlasting, piercing "daggers" flying right in my ear canal sent from the higher frequencies (howdy 6k!). And yeah, they did oscillate too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So I went with the stock fitting of the E1 again for a few days. - Good old NE5532's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah, they definately sound a bit warmer and they emphasize the bass more than some others (which is good for me!). However, they do sound less detailed, less extended in the bottom-end and narrow the soundstage by just a bit more among the highend LME49990's. However, most importantly, those piercing "daggers" are less present now.
   
  I thought like: "Hmm, damnit! that didn't quite worked out well... where are my god damn AD797BR's?!"
  They still haven't arrived from China since I ordered them almost 3 weeks from now.
   
  Anyway. I was thinking: "Let's try it the way, I initially wanted to place the LME49990's at - if I would have got the AD797BR's right from the start." - in the headphone buffer!
  And, oh my... that synergy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ! At first I thought I had the Equalizer still on (yeah, I know. Shame on me! But I had to! "Dem daggerz" - you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...).
   
  The "almost" stock (replacement)-NE5532's in the I/V and the 2x LME49990's being in the headphone buffer, the sound changed noticeably for me. My favorite tracks do sound more clear and "further away" from me now and even the bass, being the same in quantity as before, seem to extend more now.
  I can feel the very bottom end of the bass tickle my ears and solar plexus as soon as they fully extend - yeah, really! I'm not making this up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'm sure you happen to experienced that yourself once in a while (e.g. with speakers).
   
  I would love to hear what it may sound like with the AD797BR's being in the I/V. However, I'm quite sure they may oscillate too, just like my current LME49990's probably may... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Keep in mind that even though I'm impressed by the sound right now, the diffrence, in all objectivity, is still quite subtle. It is just for me that of a diffrence, as I happen to know my music collection in and out.
  Still space for improvement here. The treble is still too bright for me - darker it shall be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Kind of an update. Just wanted to let you guys know.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


 
  Thanks for the update. Kinda curious to know what headphones you  were doing the test with, I think the HD800?!


----------



## cssarrow

AD797 works wonderfully in buffer.
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Didn't think my words were harsh, must have been read differently on your side.
> 
> Check your inbox.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  Hey Tim,
   
  Just responded - check your inbox.
   
  Nah... i didn't think your words were harsh - you got me wrong there as well... - ha! i just felt bad to have someone purchasing something for me across two continents. My earlier comments was meant to be a lighthearted query.
   
  Anyway i love talking to you guys here... so helpful and knowledgeable. you guys rocks!!!


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thanks for the update. Kinda curious to know what headphones you  were doing the test with, I think the HD800?!


 
  Yes.
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> AD797 works wonderfully in buffer.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  Oh, I would love to test them right now but still nothing in my mail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  They may oscillate in the I/V (and maybe in buffer too) - I will make some tests later this day.
   
  I will have to fly you in and fix my E1... do your magic... turn them into a *fire breathing dragon*, not a big deal - you know


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Someone in this topic stated that the ad797 is stable in i/v when followed by 49720/49860/4562 in the lpf. I am using the ad797 right now in the i/v but i haven´t found a perfect combination yet. with the 49720ha in lpf it is too bright and thin sounding, with 49860 and 4562 not quite as detailed. I am still waiting for adapters to test the opa827 and 49990.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Someone in this topic stated that the ad797 is stable in i/v when followed by 49720/49860/4562 in the lpf. I am using the ad797 right now in the i/v but i haven´t found a perfect combination yet. with the 49720ha in lpf it is too bright and thin sounding, with 49860 and 4562 not quite as detailed. I am still waiting for adapters to test the opa827 and 49990.


 

 I really like the sound of the 49990 in the buffer. They give me the detail I was missing with more extended bass and without touching the highs too much.
  AD797 in I/V and 49990 in the buffer might be a really nice combo. You should try it out and let us know what you think!
   
  Are your AD797's in the I/V stable? What headphones are you using?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Yes.
> snip....


 
  Kenion, almost everybody I know who owns a HD800, prefers it with a tube amp, or a solid amp with a bass and warm sig.
  this brings me to the question, did anybody try the muses with the HD800? and did he/she enjoy it?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I really like the sound of the 49990 in the buffer. They give me the detail I was missing with more extended bass and without touching the highs too much.
> AD797 in I/V and 49990 in the buffer might be a really nice combo. You should try it out and let us know what you think!
> 
> Are your AD797's in the I/V stable? What headphones are you using?


 
  I can´t meause oscillation since i don´t have the equipment but the ad797 sounds nice so far with no distortion or background noise so they shuld be quite stable. I am using the Sennheiser hd 650 where the bright sound is not that problematic but on speakers it is annoying and less natural. And there is always the problem with the thin sound.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Kenion, almost everybody I know who owns a HD800, prefers it with a tube amp, or a solid amp with a bass and warm sig.
> That bring me to the question, did anybody try the muses with the HD800? and did he/she enjoy it?


 
  Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> [...]or a solid amp with a bass and warm sig.


 
  This.
   
  I'm sure you are able to achive a warm analog sig and bass with the E1 being a solid-state amp.
  I am really enjoing my E1 in combination with the HD 800. It gives me the bass I was looking for and a lukewarm signature, though, not as perfect as for now. But I probably figure out a way.
  That's why there is still the option to roll the opamps on it.
   
  It is true that almost everyone who got a HD 800 is pairing them with a tube amp. Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to purchase tube amps of known brands like "Woo Audio", "Bottlehead Crack" and "Shiit", as I live in Germany, there isn't much to choose from (and test...). Most tube amps here are very, very expensive too so I have to make the best of what I've got.
  Of course, I can go ahead and order a tube amp from the USA. But I couldn't test them, had to add a ridiculous amount of taxes to the order on top of the price (see _acidic's_ case), and furthermore, I had to regulary order tube replacements from them too. However, I would love to test it out myself!
   
  I'm most certain that there are a few people out there that had a chance to test the HD 800 with the E1 Muses Ed (and a tube amp). You should ask Asus staff, I know that some of them got a HD 800 at home. _Raja@Asus_ does, for example.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> This.
> 
> I'm sure you are able to achive a warm analog sig and bass with the E1 being a solid-state amp.
> I am really enjoing my E1 in combination with the HD 800. It gives me the bass I was looking for and a lukewarm signature, though, not as perfect as for now. But I probably figure out a way.
> ...


 
  Thanks for the heads up Kenion.
   
  Is the Muses update on your list for the E1?
   
  The best thing about living in Germany, is that you get the best prices for German made Headphones, the problem I can't remember which...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  The German Seller I ordered the Bey. 770 LE from, did not ship it (eBay refunded my payment fully), and I felt let down (Although he has good reputation) !!!


----------



## gattari

Well, tomorrow six muses01 will be at my home.
  I use the xonar one as stand alone dac to my speaker, a pair of kef ls 50.
  I  don't use the E1 for headphone amp.
  My question is:
   
  I have a dual lme49710ha mounted on dip, it's a good idea to use it on the (3A) rca buffer?
  It is possible? I am not expert....
  I will use the muses01 on the IV stage and LPF.
  Thanks to clarify my trouble.
  Ciao


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





gattari said:


> Well, tomorrow six muses01 will be at my home.
> I use the xonar one as stand alone dac to my speaker, a pair of kef ls 50.
> I  don't use the E1 for headphone amp.
> My question is:
> ...


 
  It is possible to use it as rca buffer and also an upgrade over the 4562 so you should use it.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Hey Tim,
> Just responded - check your inbox.
> Nah... i didn't think your words were harsh - you got me wrong there as well... - ha! i just felt bad to have someone purchasing something for me across two continents. My earlier comments was meant to be a lighthearted query.
> Anyway i love talking to you guys here... so helpful and knowledgeable. you guys rocks!!!


 
  I'll give you a PM soon.
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> Yes.
> Oh, I would love to test them right now but still nothing in my mail
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would turn them into a *Red Eyes Black Dragon*, but after it's done and i leave, you'll have some trouble finding your HD-800's.
  Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Kenion, almost everybody I know who owns a HD800, prefers it with a tube amp, or a solid amp with a bass and warm sig.
> this brings me to the question, did anybody try the muses with the HD800? and did he/she enjoy it?


 
  My cousin comes over with his HD-800 every weak, and he seems to like the NE5532 and AD797B over the MUSES01's. 
  We had a discussion with each other, and concluded that the HD-800 sounds better with more smooth treble and a little bass heavy.
  It's also the most comfortable headphones that i have ever tried.
  Another thing that we concluded, was that the LCD-2 sounded better on the Essence One, than the HD-800.
  Perhaps because the 800 veils a bit more of the music and is more amp picky.
   
  All in all, the HE-400 was good at it's forward bass, when using the LME49710 it wasn't as good to the level as i wanted, now having the LCD-2, it's perfectly placed.




  Quote: 





gattari said:


> Well, tomorrow six muses01 will be at my home.
> I use the xonar one as stand alone dac to my speaker, a pair of kef ls 50.
> I  don't use the E1 for headphone amp.
> My question is:
> ...


 
  I use it there, it is a good upgrade.

 Higher Transparency
 Improved treble peakage, but not harsh (less harsh than the LME49720)
 More in depth sound stage with a bit of this "airy" feel.
 Improved sound separation.
 Bass is around the same level, these op-amps are a little bass light, so it's really hard to hear the difference in this category.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I'll give you a PM soon.
> I would turn them into a *Red Eyes Black Dragon*, but after it's done and i leave, you'll have some trouble finding your HD-800's.
> *My cousin comes over with his HD-800 every weak, and he seems to like the NE5532 and AD797B over the MUSES01's. *
> We had a discussion with each other, and concluded that the HD-800 sounds better with more smooth treble and a little bass heavy.
> ...


 
   
  Tim,
  Spot on, that was my conclusion, even without hearing any, I knew that muses is not "Best" suited for the HD800, as you said, Bass heavy amps (to an extant) is one of the requirements for the HD800 to tame it.
  The HD800 is revealing, as with the Muses. I think in general it is safe to say Muses and HD800 are not the best match. LCD2 prepare to be "OWNED"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I would appreciate if anybody would share his finding for the Beyerdynamic T1 with Asus Essence One.
  I like to hear what others think.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure, some forget that their source is only PART of their system.  This is why opamp rolling can help so much for certain types of sources and cans...
  The NE5532 and even AD797B are more of a warmer type of tubish sound to some.  You lose some of your clarity in exchange for warmth.
  Some like this type of sound and some do not.


----------



## cssarrow

So much better for speaker set-ups.
   
  If using a treble heavy op-amp, just drop a subwoofer in there, and bam. good to go.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

I can agree to everything mentioned above.
  Can't wait to get my AD797's!
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I'll give you a PM soon.
> I would turn them into a *Red Eyes Black Dragon*, but after it's done and i leave, you'll have some trouble finding your HD-800's.
> My cousin comes over with his HD-800 every weak, and he seems to like the NE5532 and AD797B over the MUSES01's.
> We had a discussion with each other, and concluded that the HD-800 sounds better with more smooth treble and a little bass heavy.
> ...


 
   
  The HD 800's really are extremly comfortable. It's like they are "floating" on top of your head.
  That's basically the main concern I have with the LCD-2/3. I know they won't be nearly as comfortable as the HD 800, but as long as they don't "hurt", its probably bearable for me. - I'm really looking for that dark/club sound and their bass everyone's talkin' 'bout. *umz, umz, umz* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - Don't forget to give us your opinion with them Tim!
   
  I'm going to test them out in a local dealer before I go to the Philippines and decide whether to buy them or not.
  My HD 800's will be waiting for me here. I'm going to buy my babys a new pair of earpads too, to make sure they are in perfect condition before sending them to you... *if* I really end up buying the LCD's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Tim,
> Spot on, that was my conclusion, even without hearing any, I knew that muses is not "Best" suited for the HD800, as you said, Bass heavy amps (to an extant) is one of the requirements for the HD800 to tame it.
> The HD800 is revealing, as with the Muses. I think in general it is safe to say Muses and HD800 are not the best match. LCD2 prepare to be "OWNED"...
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have tested the Beyer T1. It is true that you can get them really cheap here in Germany in comparison with other countries (especially the Beyers and Ultrasone's)!
  The T1 sounded really, really good to my ears and I was "almost" about to buy them when I was there. - back then, I moved from hifi-store to hifi-store with my car, just to get a scope about some of the diffrent headphones out there.
  The T1 really is a extremly fast (almost hectic) sounding pair of headphone with a bit lack of slam in the bass. I think, just like with the HD 800's, the AD797's + NE5532's are a really good pair with T1, as they are more analog and warm sounding with an emphasis in bass.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I can agree to everything mentioned above.
> Can't wait to get my AD797's!
> 
> The HD 800's really are extremly comfortable. It's like they are "floating" on top of your head.
> ...


 
  HD-800's are great. Very relaxing, to me, more relaxing than the HD-650.
  HD-650 mixes sounds a little too much, overly full, and is too smooth.
   
  LCD-2 is pretty comfortable, especially when you've had HIFIMAN Headphones for over at least over a month.
  To me, even though the HE-500 is heavier, it's still more comfortable than the HE-400. It must be, due to my girlfriend wearing it all the time, so it loosened up quite a bit.
   
  I found the HD-650 to be darker sounding than HE-400/500 & LCD-2. Don't know why, it's probably because the 650 is too slow and syrupy, this the fast pace planars sound faster/more lively, which lightens it's dark tone.
   
  You should check it out. That's always a good choice before buying products.
  I would love to have both.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I can agree to everything mentioned above.
> Can't wait to get my AD797's!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You said "Almost", so what was the reason that stopped you from getting them? I have friends who swore for the LCD2 over the T1, which I find "Strange".


----------



## cssarrow

I wished i had a T1 & HD-800 to test.
   
  That way, i could test HE-500, LCD-2, T1, and HD-800 on the Essence One Muses.
   
  Sadly, i do not, because i am poor. 
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I wished i had a T1 & HD-800 to test.
> 
> That way, i could test HE-500, LCD-2, T1, and HD-800 on the Essence One Muses.
> 
> ...


 
  Poor!!?? having members like yourself  and all the others, is what counts Tim.
  Money comes and goes, but what we learn/teach from each other, can't be priced.
  That is what I like about Head-fi, "Having members like you and many here" .
  If that makes you feel better , I am also "Poor", well we are all Poor....right guys...


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Poor!!?? having members like yourself  and all the others, is what counts Tim.
> Money comes and goes, but what we learn/teach from each other, can't be priced.
> That is what I like about Head-fi, "Having members like you and many here" .
> If that makes you feel better , I am also "Poor", well we are all Poor....right guys...


 
  Was just a joke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I'm happy enough having a place to stay and cloths to keep me warm.
   
  Plenty of courteous people here on Head-Fi.
 Best forum that i've ever been on.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Was just a joke
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you Tim, keep them coming...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  WOW...$100 for customs....too much, just bring the @#$$ thing to me.....where is the Fedex Guy? Have anyone seen him?...


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you Tim, keep them coming...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You paid one hundred for customs?
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> You paid one hundred for customs?
> 
> *Tim*


 
   
  I will (customs and clearance and other made up stuff..), just when the Fedex Guy arrives....
   
  That is why I like/prefer USPS (+registered), as customs never charges a penny when I ship with them, no problem , just bring it.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I will (customs and clearance and other made up stuff..), just when the Fedex Guy arrives....
> 
> That is why I like/prefer USPS (+registered), as customs never charges a penny when I ship with them, no problem , just bring it.


 
  Yikes.
  Got to declare the item under $5! LOL.
   
  I whole heartedly dislike FedEx & UPS.
  USPS is the best.
   
  Let's hope the customs isn't too up there.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Got it (sure heavier than I expected) the build quality is top notch and the pictures do not do justice this piece of love, still @ my office and I have to take my girl to a nice dinner (so I can relay the bad  news...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....
   
   
   

   

   
   
  Edit: Foobar asio workin, but not with jriver!!! no sound and no play..
   
   

  edit : changed latency to 50...now working....I just connected it to my airmotiv4 to let my girl enjoy what I got her!
   
   
  Update : 384!!! is this true?
   

   
  @ acidic, manual is the same as for other E1 versions as there is no mention of the switch!


----------



## turokrocks

Some quick photos.....


----------



## Kenion

Big gratz on your new piece of tech!
  Beautiful pictures turok, thanks!


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Big gratz on your new piece of tech!
> Beautiful pictures turok, thanks!


 
  Kenion, BIG THANKS.
   
  Strangely my asus only plays with Jriver18+asio when I set the latency to 50!! any other and the player will not work.
   
  Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## turokrocks

Guys , I can use the asus with my Note 2!!! up to 192.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1680#post_9151959


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Got it (sure heavier than I expected) the build quality is top notch and the pictures do not do justice this piece of love, still @ my office and I have to take my girl to a nice dinner (so I can relay the bad  news...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It's heavy, and way larger than i had anticipated.
   
  Taking your girl out is a good thing, it should be fun, not a chore lol.
   
  Set to 24/32 bit in Driver Control Panel.
  Use ASIO.
  Disable "use large hardware buffers".
   
  Set Latency to 10.
  Any lower, and you'll find distortion in sound not delivering fast enough.
   
*Tim*


----------



## gattari

turokrocks said:
			
		

> .Guys , I can use the asus with my Note 2!!! up to 192.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1680#post_9151959



I have galaxy s3, my wife gnote 2, I try both phone with the odac and the s3 has vastly superior sound with odac.
I don t know why but the usb signal out of s3 is very good.
The gnote 2 lack in clarity compared to s3.
I don t try with asus one.
Do you have bit perfect with gnote 2?
Ciao


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gattari said:


> I have galaxy s3, my wife gnote 2, I try both phone with the odac and the s3 has vastly superior sound with odac.
> I don t know why but the usb signal out of s3 is very good.
> The gnote 2 lack in clarity compared to s3.
> I don t try with asus one.
> ...


 
  !!?? I find it really strange, as the sound should be the same! with some unsupported dacs, the "Audio recorder pro" app solves this.


----------



## cssarrow

Let us know how the Essence One Muses sounds to you after getting your ears more fixated to them
   
   
*Timothy*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Let us know how the Essence One Muses sounds to you after getting your ears more fixated to them
> 
> 
> *Timothy*


 
  It sounded amazing thru my speakers, and had a quick listing thru my HE-500.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The "TSSSSST" is there, and I could make it clearly with some songs , but believe me when I say , If it was not for another/better enjoyment/pleasure (Leave it to your imagination...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I would not have stopped listing to them.
   
  I can't imagine how the LCD2 will sound with the muses....Maybe next month, if I could  get them for a bargain.


----------



## Sk1n5

@Whit3Rav3n, I'm currently using the AD797Bs with OPA627BMs in the LPF and OPA627AUs in the Headphone and RCA Buffers. With the 627s its like someone articulating their words more to get the point across, whereas the 49990s would be like raising one's voice to do it. To me both have around the same amount of detail. The 49990s just sound harsh in comparison.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> It sounded amazing thru my speakers, and had a quick listing thru my HE-500.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The same TSSST i get with some songs as well. lol. same boat, same boat.
   
  I don't really hear the tsst much (barely on the LCD-2). I think it helped a bit.
   
  I like it.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> The same TSSST i get with some songs as well. lol. same boat, same boat.
> 
> I don't really hear the tsst much (barely on the LCD-2). I think it helped a bit.
> 
> I like it.


 
  Tim....you are killing me man.
   
  The sound signature of the muses reminds me of the Sabre ES9018, but  much better (more enjoyable).


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> @Whit3Rav3n, I'm currently using the AD797Bs with OPA627BMs in the LPF and OPA627AUs in the Headphone and RCA Buffers. With the 627s its like someone articulating their words more to get the point across, whereas the 49990s would be like raising one's voice to do it. To me both have around the same amount of detail. The 49990s just sound harsh in comparison.


 
  I could not get the opa627 since it has already been replaced by the 827 but i will try the 827. So with the 627 the sound is balanced without being too thin or bright or anything?


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Tim....you are killing me man.
> 
> The sound signature of the muses reminds me of the Sabre ES9018, but  much better (more enjoyable).


 

 I'm glad you enjoy your new E1 Muses. Welcome to the club dude!
   
   
  So my AD797BR's* finally* arrived and I just installed them into the board!
  Hopefully my E1 doesen't turn into a vulcano later this day.
  So far I enjoy da-sound!


----------



## 4Real

Man this sucks I'm really starting to get annoyed with the lack of availability of the Muses edition in the UK, that and the ridiculous price difference between the UK and US for the same model of headphones.
   
  Sorry just needed to vent a little


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





4real said:


> Man this sucks I'm really starting to get annoyed with the lack of availability of the Muses edition in the UK, that and the ridiculous price difference between the UK and US for the same model of headphones.
> 
> Sorry just needed to vent a little


 

 No problem, I feel you.
  Same applies to Germany.
  They just replace the $ with a €...


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I'm glad you enjoy your new E1 Muses. Welcome to the club dude!
> 
> 
> So my AD797BR's* finally* arrived and I just installed them into the board!
> ...


 
  Thank you dude....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I am still searching for the culprit that made me come to the dark side of the E1, was it you? no really I am looking for him.
   
  That's great, I will be waiting to read about your finding, as I always enjoyed reading your posts.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





4real said:


> Man this sucks I'm really starting to get annoyed with the lack of availability of the Muses edition in the UK, that and the ridiculous price difference between the UK and US for the same model of headphones.
> 
> Sorry just needed to vent a little


 
  I spent more than a month looking for the Muses , until I almost lost hope. So in a way I feel for your frustration, but believe me , the Muses will make up for it, not overhyping, but man you have to see this thing in person to understand the work that went into it, and when you turn it on......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you dude....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for your kind words turok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I still swap them around a lot, as I'm not quite sure which opamp suits which position best.
  I've had the AD797BR's in the I/V and the LME49990's in the buffer. Results were good but the sound was lacking a bit of bass.
  Now I got the NE5532's (the stock E1 opamps), in the I/V again, AD797BR's in the buffer (as Tim recommended) and the LME49990's in the filter. The sound signature has gotten even warmer now and the bass is more presence than before, which I like.
   
  Update: I realy enjoy the extra warmth and bass specifically on that song 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Nosaj Thing - Eclipse/Blue (feat. Kazu Makino)


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I spent more than a month looking for the Muses , until I almost lost hope. So in a way I feel for your frustration, but believe me , the Muses will make up for it, not overhyping, but man you have to see this thing in person to understand the work that went into it, and when you turn it on......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I don't like the sound it makes when it turns on.
   
  Sounds like something fries, so when i was doing my mod, i kept thinking that something went wrong when i turned it on for testing.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I don't like the sound it makes when it turns on.
> 
> Sounds like something fries, so when i was doing my mod, i kept thinking that something went wrong when i turned it on for testing.
> 
> *Tim*


 
   
_Lé me, turning on my Xonar Essence One... thinking it would make that sound;_
   




   
_...and feels like a Boss!_


----------



## cssarrow

Mine just sounds like this...

  Maybe you got the need for speed model?
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
*Kenion, thank you for taking the time to post your findings, as you can't imagine how much time and frustration you are saving us, and in a way I feel bad as you are the one (**and the culprit,you know yourself) **who is doing most of the dirty work for us ...*



* *


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> *Kenion, thank you for taking the time and post your findings, as you can't imagine how much time and frustration you are saving us, and in a way I feel bad as you are the one (**and the culprit,you know yourself) **who is doing most of the dirty work for us ...*
> 
> 
> 
> * *


 
  He is the scientist behind all the magic.
   
  I'm the mad scientist that is conducting experiments that no one should be doing.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I don't like the sound it makes when it turns on.
> 
> Sounds like something fries, so when i was doing my mod, i kept thinking that something went wrong when i turned it on for testing.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  LOL...When I unpacked it, it smelled bad...really bad as if something was burnt!
  I wanted to test it later but the smell is what made me rush in turning it on, to test if it is working.


----------



## Kenion

I'm not doing any work. You guys are the scientists with the broad knowledge in headphones and electronics... heck, I don't even have more than 100 posts in this forum


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> LOL...When I unpacked it, it smelled bad...really bad as if something was burnt!
> I wanted to test it later but the smell is what made me rush in turning it on, to test if it is working.


 
  Yes, i remember that smell.
   
  The complete opposite of buying a new car.
  Just like the good car smell fades away, this till also go away within a month.
  I assume it's the black coat layer that used to paint over the steel and aluminum.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Mine just sounds like this...
> 
> Maybe you got the need for speed model?
> 
> *Tim*


 
   






*THAT* almost made me fell out of my chair! I love you Tim !


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Yes, i remember that smell.
> 
> The complete opposite of buying a new car.
> Just like the good car smell fades away, this till also go away within a month.
> ...


 
  Yes, I also think so.
  Any new updates/photos for your project?
  I will have to find the time to open it and take some pictures, just I am so lazy, my German bear and Australian carrots witness to this.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I'm not doing any work. You guys are the scientists with the broad knowledge in headphones and electronics... heck, I don't even have more than 100 posts in this forum


 
  This is me most of the time.

*Life before electronics:*

   
*Stepping into electronics: moding*

   
*Sucesssful with modding Essence One:*

   
*Updates Results:*

   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> This is me most of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I knew it, I knew it, I had the suspicion from the beginning, but now you proved me right...


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Yes, i remember that smell.
> 
> The complete opposite of buying a new car.
> Just like the good car smell fades away, this till also go away within a month.
> ...


 
   
  I have repurchased my E1 *three* times before I decided to keep it... *some* may think I only did it because of dat _smell_...


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Yes, I also think so.
> Any new updates/photos for your project?
> I will have to find the time to open it and take some pictures, just I am so lazy, my German bear and Australian carrots witness to this.


 
  Not really.
  Too busy with being a junior in college.
   


 Small PCI-E Cable change.
  four 24AWG Wires, in litz round braid equaling 15AWG. 
  Helps elimite some EMI from the transformer that may affect the DC output cable. maybe. iono.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I have repurchased my E1 *three* times before I decided to keep it... *some* may think I only did because of the smell...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Joking aside, really?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I have repurchased my E1 *three* times before I decided to keep it... *some* may think I only did because of dat _smell_...


 
  Either that or you were trying to get a better deal.
   
  I know that feeling bro.
   

   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Either that or you were trying to get a better deal.
> 
> I know that feeling bro.
> 
> ...


 

*THIS*
   
  I ended up with a used (but good as new -mint-) deal from amazon marketplace. Really good price...
   
_and don't forget dat smell..._


----------



## cssarrow

I feel a little lacking is bass, time to add the ad797's to headphone and rca buffer.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I tried the ad797 in the buffer with ad797 in i/v and 2107 in lpf but it was pretty terrible.


----------



## Kenion

It's a real blessing to swap those opamps. I can even do it with my fingers.
  Unlike those....


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





kenion said:


> It's a real blessing to swap those opamps. I can even do it with my fingers.
> Unlike those....


 
  Is that a single ad797? Why did you get the single ad797, the one needs dual.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Is that a single ad797? Why did you get the single ad797, the one needs dual.


 

 Nah, i got the dual one. Don't worry.
  Just a quick search for a pic from google.


----------



## Archimago

To *ASUSXONAR*,
  Can we get a comment on the issue around frequency drop off with upsampling using the TosLink and Coaxial inputs as reported on this post:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1230#post_9113301
   
  The early frequency drop off is noticeable and limits the potential use of the upsampling feature yet it's fine with the USB input. Thanks.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





archimago said:


> To *ASUSXONAR*,
> Can we get a comment on the issue around frequency drop off with upsampling using the TosLink and Coaxial inputs as reported on this post:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1230#post_9113301
> 
> The early frequency drop off is noticeable and limits the potential use of the upsampling feature yet it's fine with the USB input. Thanks.


 
  Let's make an emphasis on this, so we can fix as many driver issues as possible.
   
  So it's only happening in Toslink and Coaxial right?
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I feel a little lacking is bass, time to add the ad797's to headphone and rca buffer.


 
  Careful, the AD797 oscillates like crazy in the buffer slot. When you put it into the headphone buffer play with the volume knob and you'll hear a whooshing sound.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Careful, the AD797 oscillates like crazy in the buffer slot. When you put it into the headphone buffer play with the volume knob and you'll hear a whooshing sound.


 
  i have a 0.1uF bypass film cap on it.
   
  Not much woosh that i can hear.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> i have a 0.1uF bypass film cap on it.
> 
> Not much woosh that i can hear.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  Just to clarify, on my E1 it is only present when you move the knob without any audio playing. However it still indicates that the opamp is not happy being there.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Just to clarify, on my E1 it is only present when you move the knob without any audio playing. However it still indicates that the opamp is not happy being there.


 
  Oooooh, i hear it now, what the heck is this noise? LOL.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Let's make an emphasis on this, so we can fix as many driver issues as possible.
> 
> So it's only happening in Toslink and Coaxial right?
> 
> *Tim*


 
  No, i just did some measurements it cuts the high frequencies also on usb.
   
   

   
  The meausurement is made with onboard line in so it does not represents the actual  quality of the frequency response but it is good enough to show the high cut.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Just to clarify, on my E1 it is only present when you move the knob without any audio playing. However it still indicates that the opamp is not happy being there.


 
  I just checked with the 2107 in lpf the ad797 also makes some noise with no audio playing, looks like this combination is not entirely stable.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I just checked with the 2107 in lpf the ad797 also makes some noise with no audio playing, looks like this combination is not entirely stable.


 
  The only place I've gotten the AD797 stable is the I/V stage, and that's only after I added a few capacitors to calm it down.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> The only place I've gotten the AD797 stable is the I/V stage, and that's only after I added a few capacitors to calm it down.


 
  I also have the 797 in the i/v, there are electolytic capacitos on then with 100uF but i didn´t notice any improvement with them. I will try to repace them with 220nF wima MKS.


----------



## leeperry

I think installing a pair of OPA2132P in the headamp of the ONE Muses would be full of win 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This opamp can be found in many expensive DAC's IME and it really shines through within good designs IMHO, providing a highly enjoyable euphonic sound as this shoot-out confirmed: http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamps.html
  Quote: 





> you may be so happy with it that you stop looking at other chips!


 
   
  Anyway, I hope you guys are really proud of your endless poisoning because a friend of mine who's been happy with his regular ONE for +1 year is now contemplating upgrading to the MUSES edition....$850 in the US and we could have another friend of mine shipping it via USPS described as a "$30 used radio" without the box and avoid VAT import taxes altogether
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So anyone's got a picture of the headamp gain jumper please


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> No, i just did some measurements it cuts the high frequencies also on usb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That also makes me wonder. I can't hear an improvement when I turn on upsampling. However, I can hear a degradation in treble dynamics on certain songs.
   
  I've swapped the opamps on the LPF again. The AD797BR's are now in there instead of the LME49990's. I can't hear any diffrence though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Overall, choosing to buy the AD797BR was worthwhile. The sound changed into a slightly warmer, almost vinyl alike signature. It's like a grain of salt has been put on top of the music, which to me, adds a more "analog" feel to it. You can hear the improvement particularly with metal and rock. For me, those genres used to be the HD 800's weakspots.
  However, I would like to have even more impact/punch on the mid-bass.
  I find the treble to be less fatiguing now and that piercing "ssss" on some vocals aren't as annoying anymore (still a tad too bright).
  Although the LME49990's (on I/V) had the best detail and transparency overall, I just find them to be too thin and harsh sounding to my ears.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I think installing a pair of OPA2132P in the headamp of the ONE Muses would be full of win
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the input leeperry!
  I may go and try out the OPA2132P.
   
  As for the gain jumper, you may ask turokrocks for pictures. He just recently got his Muses E1.


----------



## cssarrow

I hear a large degradation in treble and sound stage when using the upsampling option.
  It makes all of my music overly smooth, which was why i sold the HD-650 in the first place.
  It cuts the frequencies which makes my HE-500 it a bad performer.
   
  I'm going to get some OPA2132P from Texas Instruments and see what happens.




   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I hear a large degradation in treble and sound stage when using the upsampling option.
> It makes all of my music overly smooth, which was why i sold the HD-650 in the first place.
> It cuts the frequencies which makes my HE-500 it a bad performer.
> 
> ...


 
*ASUS Essence One Muses Edition*​  _OP-Amps_: MUSES01 & LME49710HA​ _*Headphones:*_
Audeze LCD-2
*Sennheiser HD-800*
HIFIMAN HE-500 
_*Speakers:*_
Audioengine A5+


----------



## cssarrow

I can explain.... i was listening at the store... and was like..these are more comfortable...
  Then i was like... hmm.. they sound pretty darn good...
   
   

   
  I ended up selling my both of my HE-400's (i had two)
  Surprisingly, $800 was not enough to pay for the HD-800 (joke).
   
  That was the story.
   




   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Well, at least we now can both discover what amp/opamp sounds best with the HD-800^^ (of course, only as long as I decide to keep mine)


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Well, at least we now can both discover what amp/opamp sounds best with the HD-800^^ (of course, only as long as I decide to keep mine)


 
  So far im using MUSES01's with NE5532 in buffer, and they sound prettttttty darrrrn gooooood.
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Got it (sure heavier than I expected) the build quality is top notch and the pictures do not do justice this piece of love, still @ my office and I have to take my girl to a nice dinner (so I can relay the bad  news...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Turokrocks -  congrats on your new purchase!! i meant finally it has arrived for you...haha... enjoy.
   
  When you have a moment, is it alright if you open it up and show us the gain jumper since its not in your manual as well.
   
  TIA


----------



## Gandah

Since we are on the subject of OPA2132 my opamps finally arrived, they must of gotten or something, friend sent them a month ago.
   
  Anyhow I got
  2x OPA2107
  4x OPA2132
  2x LM4562
  4x LME49722
   
  The OPA2132, LM4562 and LME49722 are a surface mount package on DIP adapters, I'm just a bit unsure about the OPA2132U what does the U stand for and are they safe to use? Although I have been using them in this combination of 4 OPA2132 I/V and 2 LM4562 they seem to be working fine just thought I check with you guys though
   
  Coming from the standard E1 edition I'm quite surprised at the vast improvement in SQ, I was thinking it would improve a little, not this much,  I can never go back to flabby bass no detail NE5532.  The detail in this op combo is just amazing so articulate with a tighter denser bass, however it is a tad bright not painfully like having ice picks in your ears, just a little unnatural to my ears through the Fostex TH900, not that the TH900s are natural sounding, far from it, it's brighter then the NE5523. Also asus say this opamp combo is "slightly cool" I didn't at all find them less warm, but could be on other HP's like the HD800.
   
  Overall I'm very happy with the SQ, and now want to tryout the muses, rather then buying a better DAC 
   
_Cheers,_
*~Steve*


----------



## Kenion

Thanks alot for your input Steve.
  Glad to hear that you enjoy your new opamps! Let us know what you think about the other opamps and combos.


----------



## acidic

After dissecting my E1... i got this feeling that the intended gain jumper should be located here.... as there is a blank white box near to the headphone volume pot.
   
  Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Turokrocks -  congrats on your new purchase!! i meant finally it has arrived for you...haha... enjoy.
> 
> When you have a moment, is it alright if you open it up and show us the gain jumper since its not in your manual as well.
> 
> TIA


 
  Thanks....I also have to change the gain, and will take some pictures, just been over my head between work and personal matters.
   
  I only got 6-7 hours on it!!..you believe it..


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Just to clarify, on my E1 it is only present when you move the knob without any audio playing. However it still indicates that the opamp is not happy being there.


 

 I can confirm that I hear the same buzz, noise quitely in the background and when moving the volume knob.
  However, this issue only applies if I use USB. When using digital out via toslink from my soundcard (as I always do) everything is fine, zero noise. (I/V: LME49990 ; LPF,Buffer: AD797BR


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I can confirm that I hear the same buzz, noise quitely in the background and when moving the volume knob.
> However, this issue only applies if I use USB. When using digital out via toslink from my soundcard (as I always do) everything is fine, zero noise. (I/V: LME49990 ; LPF,Buffer: AD797BR


 
  Thanks for bringing this matter up.
   
  In your own experience, did you find any difference between the Toslink and USB? and what is the max rate you are able to get with Toslink?
   
  I am asking as I will be getting the creative ZXR (its a beast on its own, just when it available to be bought) and would like to connect it to my E1.


----------



## cssarrow

I found Coxial to be better, however being on the PC most of the time, USB is my 2nd, yet most used option.
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thanks....I also have to change the gain, and will take some pictures, just been over my head between work and personal matters.
> 
> I only got 6-7 hours on it!!..you believe it..


 
  Oh man... that's a waste.... quickly pacify your woman and get back to real business!
   
  You got a truckload of guys here waiting for your dissecting.... haha


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> After dissecting my E1... i got this feeling that the intended gain jumper should be located here.... as there is a blank white box near to the headphone volume pot.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?


 
  I see the same thing on my Essence One.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I found Coxial to be better, however being on the PC most of the time, USB is my 2nd, yet most used option.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  I need a good Coxial cable, you know where I can get one?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I need a good Coxial cable, you know where I can get one?


 
  Iono, i 've always made my own.
   
  You can try ebay. lol.
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I see the same thing on my Essence One.
> 
> *Tim*


 

 Which is why i think all the board across the versions are the same.... but our Asus rep told us a different thing... hmm..


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thanks for bringing this matter up.
> 
> In your own experience, did you find any difference between the Toslink and USB? and what is the max rate you are able to get with Toslink?
> 
> I am asking as I will be getting the creative ZXR (its a beast on its own, just when it available to be bought) and would like to connect it to my E1.


 

 I can hear no loss in quality with toslink. I'm using my trusty X-Fi, which gives me some nifty DSP tweaks like EQ, virtual surround (e.g. for gaming) and I can listen to my playtation 3 through the E1->HP and/or my 5.1 speakers simultaneously without me needing to recable anything.
  And yes, thats why I would like to upgrade to a ZxR aswell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Hmm.. I think that buzzing noise, if using USB, comes from the pc motherboard. I think it has something to do with the higher end opamps starting to pick up the noise from there.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I can hear no loss in quality with toslink. I'm using my trusty X-Fi, which gives me some nifty DSP tweaks like EQ, virtual surround (e.g. for gaming) and I can listen to my playtation 3 through the E1->HP and/or my 5.1 speakers simultaneously without me needing to recable anything.
> And yes, thats why I would like to upgrade to a ZxR aswell
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What!!!??
Creative is recalling ZxR cards?: http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=699322


----------



## Kenion

turokrocks said:


> What!!!??
> Creative is recalling ZxR cards?:
> http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=699322




Yea, i've read about that already. However this only applies to early shipped cards afaik.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Since we are on the subject of OPA2132 my opamps finally arrived, they must of gotten or something, friend sent them a month ago.
> 
> Anyhow I got
> 2x OPA2107
> ...


 
  I have some 2132-s, i´m going to try them in the buffer with ad797 in i/v. I also had your op combination however i found the 2107 in i/v and 2132 in lpf better. It was a little less bright and more mid focused. Right now i am still trying to find a good neutral combination with the ad797 in lpf. The op-s i have right now are:
   
  5xad797
  8xopa2107
  8xopa2132
  7xlme49720ha
  6xlme49720na
  3xlme4562
  6xne5532
  6xopa1612
  4xlme49860
   
  I tested a lot of combinations with these but still haven´t found a truly neutral and good sounding combination. 
  lme49990 and opa827 are coming soon. I also have some lme49710-s but i am waiting if i will use 49720 in the one before i invest in adapters for them. I am guessing the 49710 has the same sound character as the 49720 just with better sound.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I have some 2132-s, i´m going to try them in the buffer with ad797 in i/v. I also had your op combination however i found the 2107 in i/v and 2132 in lpf better. It was a little less bright and more mid focused. Right now i am still trying to find a good neutral combination with the ad797 in lpf. The op-s i have right now are:
> 
> 5xad797
> 8xopa2107
> ...


 
  Cool Rav, good to know after further testing I will more then likely buy some more opamps and keep the 2107 in mind as i've only got 2 of them at the mo. So out of all the combinations you could have with those op's what is your favorite combo, and what HP you use if you don't mind me asking?
   
  Can't find much info on the LME49722 is this just a renamed LME49720 that I read somewhere early today, any info would be appreciated if anyone knows?
   
_Cheers,_
*~Steve*


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I also have to change the gain, and will take some pictures


 
   
  sweeet


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Cool Rav, good to know after further testing I will more then likely buy some more opamps and keep the 2107 in mind as i've only got 2 of them at the mo. So out of all the combinations you could have with those op's what is your favorite combo, and what HP you use if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> Can't find much info on the LME49722 is this just a renamed LME49720 that I read somewhere early today, any info would be appreciated if anyone knows?
> 
> ...


 
   
  WIthout the ad797 the best combination i found was the 2107 in i/v, the 2132 in lpf and the 1612 in buffer. I am using the hd 650 as headphones but i also use them with speakers that are quite neutral and direct sounding so i can test the op-s with different sounding equipment.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> So far im using MUSES01's with NE5532 in buffer, and they sound prettttttty darrrrn gooooood.
> 
> *Tim*


 

 Whatever combination I use, everytime I place the NE5532 in the buffer I get those piercing "sss" back.
  I find the AD797's best in buffer.
  I/V: NE5532 ; Buffer: AD797BR best combo for me so far. - good bass, relatively smooth highs (just a tad too bright sometimes)


----------



## turokrocks

Guys, I can't find the gain switch!!!


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Iono, i 've always made my own.
> 
> You can try ebay. lol.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  I found this (must have gotten it long time)
  What do you think? A keeper?


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Guys, I can't find the gain switch!!!


 
   
  Hmm, it's not at the spot where we assumed it would be...
   
  That coax cable looks good to me. However, you will just need an optical cable if you plan to connect your E1 to the ZxR, like I will.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Hmm, it's not at the spot where we assumed it would be...
> 
> That coax cable looks good to me. However, you will just need an optical cable if you plan to connect your E1 to the ZxR, like I will.


 
  So whats happening???!! where is it?
   
  I found this also:


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Whatever combination I use, everytime I place the NE5532 in the buffer I get those piercing "sss" back.
> I find the AD797's best in buffer.
> I/V: NE5532 ; Buffer: AD797BR best combo for me so far. - good bass, relatively smooth highs (just a tad too bright sometimes)


 
  I don´t like the ne5532 because it always has a bass heavy and muddy character. The ad797 is much better in the i/v than the ne5532. Right now i am using the 49720ha in the lpf and the opa3132 and it sounds pretty good so far. The 2132 in the lpf doesn´t quite has the sound stage of the 49720 but with the 49720 the sound was too thin.


----------



## cssarrow

Based on your pictures, i could not locate the gain switch.
  Perhaps it's underneath the PCB.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Based on your pictures, i could not locate the gain switch.
> Perhaps it's underneath the PCB.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  I suspected this, maybe later.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Based on your pictures, i could not locate the gain switch.
> Perhaps it's underneath the PCB.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  But that sounds unlikely i don´t think asus would expect the customers to disassemble the dac just to set a gain switch.


----------



## gattari

Anyone use AD8620 on soic dip adapter in rca buffer?
Ciao


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> But that sounds unlikely i don´t think asus would expect the customers to disassemble the dac just to set a gain switch.


 
  Yes, i have doubts also.
   
  ASUS needs to help us understand this.
   
  I wonder whether or not it detects IEM's and adjusts the gain by itself. hm..
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Yes, i have doubts also.
> 
> ASUS needs to help us understand this.
> 
> ...


 
  Tim, should I plug my JH16 (it costs more than the Muses) and see.
  Or is there any other way to test your theory?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Tim, should I plug my JH16 (it costs more than the Muses) and see.
> Or is there any other way to test your theory?


 
  well i guess you can start with very very low volume and see.
   
  Gain shouldn't be too large of a jump. Probably -3 to 10dB.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

I just plugged JVC HA-FXZ200
   http://www3.jvckenwood.com/accessory/headphone/inner/ha-fxz200/index.html
   
  and the volume is at 9:00.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I just plugged JVC HA-FXZ200
> http://www3.jvckenwood.com/accessory/headphone/inner/ha-fxz200/index.html
> 
> and the volume is at 9:00.


 
  9:00 is pretty low, even for my headphones. (HE-500)
   
  AM OR PM?
   
  Might be working.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> 9:00 is pretty low, even for my headphones. (HE-500)
> 
> AM OR PM?
> 
> ...


 
  @ 9:00, is the max I can bare with this 16ohms IEM.
   
  The JVC is a very bass head iem, and It sounds amazing with the E1muses.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> @ 9:00, is the max I can bare with this 16ohms IEM.


 
  OK.
   
  It's not auto-adjusting then.
  That's way too loud to be 9:00.
   
  I tried my 30ohms headphones (cheap), and it's 3x louder than the HE-500.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Plugged my JH16, and I can hear a faint sound at 0 volume. max I can bare is 8:00.
  I am 99% sure that there is no gain switch, Asus come on...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. A jumper, but where? at least provide instructions!
  Quote:
"Raja explained how_ _the three Essence One versions differ to reflect the price structure of [size=inherit][/size] [size=inherit][/size] and [size=inherit][/size] for the Standard, Plus and Muses respectively. *"The difference is in the op-amps. The only other **minor** change is that we included a gain jumper on the Muses Edition. This alters the output voltage for someone who wants to use IEMs which won't require as much gain as over-the-ear designs. Setting that jumper to the alternate position lowers the gain and thus achieves more range over the volume control.* The Plus Edition includes 4 x TI-OPA2132PA and 2 x NS-LM4562NA that can be interchanged with the standard NE-5534. The Muses Edition simply has the version 01 Muses by default as the very best we've found. It thus ships with no other op-amps to swap. If a user wanted swap options _out of the box_, the Plus Edition would be the one. For obvious reasons the Plus includes a screw driver and two IC clamps plus step-by-step instructions and the op-amp guide of our listening impressions. The Muses op-amps are of limited supply and ..."


----------



## turokrocks




----------



## cssarrow

That gain jumper must be using the same invisibility cloak as Harry Potter.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> That gain jumper must be using the same invisibility cloak as Harry Potter.
> 
> *Tim*


 
   
  Wait, let me do my magic and summon an Asus rep. in here like I did last time.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> That gain jumper must be using the same invisibility cloak as Harry Potter.
> 
> *Tim*


 

   
   
 *Homenum Revelio*


----------



## cssarrow

*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I don´t like the ne5532 because it always has a bass heavy and muddy character. The ad797 is much better in the i/v than the ne5532. Right now i am using the 49720ha in the lpf and the opa3132 and it sounds pretty good so far. The 2132 in the lpf doesn´t quite has the sound stage of the 49720 but with the 49720 the sound was too thin.


 

 Try the LME49990's if you got the chance. They perform a great job in the I/V. Extremly transparent, excellent channel separation and rather smooth highs. They add more detail to the base whithout making them sound thin. However, they tend to get quite hot, even more than the AD797BR's.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Try the LME49990's if you got the chance. They perform a great job in the I/V. Extremly transparent, excellent channel separation and rather smooth highs. They add more detail to the base whithout making them sound thin. However, they tend to get quite hot, even more than the AD797BR's.


 
  The LME49990 oscillates more than the AD797 in any slot on the E1.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> The LME49990 oscillates more than the AD797 in any slot on the E1.


 

 Yeah, sadly... however the sound/fidelity in combination with the AD797BR's is outstanding. Never heard so much detail out of my music before.


----------



## cssarrow

Kenion likes to use two of the "hottest" op-amps.
   
  Jokes.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Actually the 49720ha in the lpf is also running very hot.


----------



## cssarrow

I tried the 49720NA in LFP, and they're only warm. never hot.
   
   

   
   

   

   

   

   

   

   
  I'm conducting some testing today with my HE-500.
   
  Let's see how well it goes.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Kenion likes to use two of the "hottest" op-amps.
> 
> Jokes.
> 
> *Tim*


 

 Yeah, I'm fine with that. I can hear & feel da heat!
   

   
   
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I tried the 49720NA in LFP, and they're only warm. never hot.


 
   
  Thats not even an E1 anymore...


----------



## cssarrow

Hey hey, don't be mad my Essence One Pokemon involved into Essence Two before yours ok?
   
*Tim*


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Yeah, sadly... however the sound/fidelity in combination with the AD797BR's is outstanding. Never heard so much detail out of my music before.


 
  I tried out my LME49990s with the AD797Bs again. I even equipped the rest of my AD797Bs with decompensation capacitors to run a full AD797B setup. Then went back to OPA627BMs in the LPF and OPA627AUs in the buffer. The 627s just make it sound more relaxed than any other combination. The 627s in those two positions make the LME49990s and the AD797Bs sound like they're trying too hard. Like an overemphasis on detail.


----------



## cssarrow

i found the OPA627 to be overemphasis on clarity.
  LME49720NA is like that too, but not nearly "trying" as hard.
   
  I guess each has their weaknesses.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> I tried out my LME49990s with the AD797Bs again. I even equipped the rest of my AD797Bs with decompensation capacitors to run a full AD797B setup. Then went back to OPA627BMs in the LPF and OPA627AUs in the buffer. The 627s just make it sound more relaxed than any other combination. The 627s in those two positions make the LME49990s and the AD797Bs sound like they're trying too hard. Like an overemphasis on detail.


 
  The OPA627 seems to be a very interesting chip, however, it's quite expensive.
  What are the sonical diffrence between the OPA627BM and the OPA627AU and which one operates "safer" inside the E1?
  I may try them out.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





kenion said:


> The OPA627 seems to be a very interesting chip, however, it's quite expensive.
> What are the sonical diffrence between the OPA627BM and the OPA627AU and which one operates "safer" inside the E1?
> I may try them out.


 
  The BM is a metal can, the AU is not. To my ears the BM is slightly superior in every way to the AU.


----------



## leeperry

For the record, my Eximus DP1 is using a pair of OPA627AP as buffers, but when rolling blindly it's always a good idea to use the highest grade available in order to overcome any design mismatch in many people's experience.
   
  This said, I rolled genuine OPA627BP's blindly in several DAC's and they sounded utterly dark and veiled. I don't think that shelling out on anything more expensive than the AU/AP grade would too wise, and don't get them for cheap from a chinese seller either as 627 is by far the most counterfeit opamp....or maybe from AudioJade if he has them, as he's not the usual ebay con artist IME but still.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> For the record, my Eximus DP1 is using a pair of OPA627AP as buffers, but when rolling blindly it's always a good idea to use the highest grade available in order to overcome any design mismatch in many people's experience.
> 
> This said, I rolled genuine OPA627BP's blindly in several DAC's and they sounded utterly dark and veiled. I don't think that shelling out on anything more expensive than the AU/AP grade would too wise, and don't get them for cheap from a chinese seller either as 627 is by far the most counterfeit opamp....or maybe from AudioJade if he has them, as he's not the usual ebay con artist IME but still.


 
  AudioJade is actually where I got them from. Funny that.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> AudioJade is actually where I got them from. Funny that.


 

 Got my AD797's from them too


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


>


 
  This is the first E1 muses version unboxing in youtube or video. congrats!!


----------



## Kenion

Oh, thats his video? Nice 
  Subbed


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Plugged my JH16, and I can hear a faint sound at 0 volume. max I can bare is 8:00.
> I am 99% sure that there is no gain switch, Asus come on...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Wait a minute.... which means Asus is doing false advertising? And that explain why it was never even mentioned in their official website's specs/features and was not included in the manual as well? There was also no "real" illustration shown in reviews etc...kind of skeptical - unless you are able to find that hidden jumper (which shouldn't be hidden anyway).
   
  That's very disappointing... I thought the Asus Rep here clarify the muses board was made out of another revision which differ from base/plus version?
   
  I seriously hope my above statement is wrong though....


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Oh, thats his video? Nice
> Subbed


 

 guess its him... haha


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I tried the 49720NA in LFP, and they're only warm. never hot.
> 
> I'm conducting some testing today with my HE-500.
> 
> ...


 
  Man... i don't even recognize it as E1 anymore.... Asus should sued you for destroying their product (or modifying it way above their original specs)... HAHAHA
   
  Jokes aside - Kudo for your efforts in modding this, hope it turns out to be a monster that even Asus will need to bow to you for advice.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Man... i don't even recognize it as E1 anymore.... Asus should sued you for destroying their product (or modifying it way above their original specs)... HAHAHA
> 
> Jokes aside - Kudo for your efforts in modding this, hope it turns out to be a monster that even Asus will need to bow to you for advice.


 
  I have no idea what im doing though.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





acidic said:


> guess its him... haha


 
   
  No, its not me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I am still waiting for Asus to prove us wrong about the absence of the gain jumper!


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> No, its not me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Did you check the contents in the box? Maybe Asus will ask you solder that gain jumper on your own...which is self-explanatory.
   
  Pun intended.


----------



## cssarrow

We hit page 100 guys.
  This is a miracle.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I tried the 49720NA in LFP, and they're only warm. never hot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice mod so far, how is the sound at this stage?
   
  Looks like the lpf temperature depends on the op-s in the i/v because with the ad797 they get really hot, i could not meause the temp with the infra thermometer because they are so small but feels like they are arund 65-70°C.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Plugged my JH16, and I can hear a faint sound at 0 volume. max I can bare is 8:00.
> I am 99% sure that there is no gain switch, Asus come on...
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The gain jumpers should be next to the headphone volume pot - to the left of it on the upper side of the PCB to be exact, and there should be two. If your unit does not have them let me know. I have relayed this to HQ already. They are on CNY break but will be back next week. If the jumpers are not present for whatever reason we will swap the unit for you, and if need be issue a recall of any or all affected units. Sorry for any inconvenience.


----------



## acidic

asusxonar said:


> The gain jumpers should be next to the headphone volume pot - to the left of it on the upper side of the PCB to be exact, and there should be two. If your unit does not have them let me know. I have relayed this to HQ already. They are on CNY break but will be back next week. If the jumpers are not present for whatever reason we will swap the unit for you, and if need be issue a recall of any or all affected units. Sorry for any inconvenience.


Wouldn't it be easier if you could show us an illustration? A picture speaks a thousand word, I'm sure you know that...and you let a user that paid a premium to search high and low for it.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> The gain jumpers should be next to the headphone volume pot - to the left of it on the upper side of the PCB to be exact, and there should be two. If your unit does not have them let me know. I have relayed this to HQ already. They are on CNY break but will be back next week. If the jumpers are not present for whatever reason we will swap the unit for you, and if need be issue a recall of any or all affected units. Sorry for any inconvenience.


 
  Thank you, I think its not there, please can you show me where it should be in the below pictures:
   
 I will be waiting for someone to pm/email me for a a racall, I am really disappointed!!!!! I spent  1 month looking till I found someone who can ship it, then to resend it and wait for a replacement!!!
 I am a proud owner of Asus Transformer T700, P8z77- Deluxe, Asus 3D LCD,O!Play ..I lost count of how many Asus products I have..Nvidia 570GTX..


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Should be here:
   
   

   
  As soon as HQ get back to me I will let you know.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Wouldn't it be easier if you could show us an illustration? A picture speaks a thousand word, I'm sure you know that...and you let a user that paid a premium to search high and low for it.


 
  +1, that makes me really mad, esp. coming from a well known company like ASUS.
   
  I could have gotten myself the normal version and bought the muses myself and could have saved about $250
  I am not going to pay a single penny for shipping, as this is Asus mistake.
  I will not make  a fuss of it, but I will be cool, hoping Asus will help me as they know I am a faithful customer.....the ball is in their ground.


----------



## cssarrow

Even i have those two resistors on my Essence One non-muses.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Should be here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you, I will be waiting and posting your wonderful help in this matter @ Headfi....


----------



## ASUSXONAR

So sorry about this. We will put this right for you, hold tight please. I will be here to help anyone with this problem.  The CNY break is not helping me be as quick as I'd like, but am pushing as hard as I can to get this resolved ASAP.


----------



## turokrocks




----------



## Kenion

Thats odd... It's like you buy a Jaguar but without the Jaguar miniature above the hood on that car... thats not a Jaguar then.


----------



## cssarrow

It's like buying a book without chapters nor table of contents.


----------



## JustinGN

Update! Got my Colorware HD800 headphones: 

The ASUS Essence One is waiting for me at home today. Couldn't find a Plus, so I grabbed a basic off Amazon with Prime Shipping. What I'm really hoping for is a more refined top end (Pop stuff is a bit harsh), and enough power to bring the bass out of the headphones (My Fiio E9 just can't produce nearly enough power. Then again, it's the original E9 that topped out at, what, 150 ohms?). Once I've got it hooked up and ASIO installed and functional, I'll post impressions.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





justingn said:


> Update! Got my Colorware HD800 headphones:
> 
> The ASUS Essence One is waiting for me at home today. Couldn't find a Plus, so I grabbed a basic off Amazon with Prime Shipping. What I'm really hoping for is a more refined top end (Pop stuff is a bit harsh), and enough power to bring the bass out of the headphones (My Fiio E9 just can't produce nearly enough power. Then again, it's the original E9 that topped out at, what, 150 ohms?). Once I've got it hooked up and ASIO installed and functional, I'll post impressions.


 
  Congratz, more pics.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





justingn said:


> Update! Got my Colorware HD800 headphones:
> 
> The ASUS Essence One is waiting for me at home today. Couldn't find a Plus, so I grabbed a basic off Amazon with Prime Shipping. What I'm really hoping for is a more refined top end (Pop stuff is a bit harsh), and enough power to bring the bass out of the headphones (My Fiio E9 just can't produce nearly enough power. Then again, it's the original E9 that topped out at, what, 150 ohms?). Once I've got it hooked up and ASIO installed and functional, I'll post impressions.


 

 That's a HD 800 Jamaican style!
   
  I used to pair mine with an E9 too. In comparison with an E1, the sound changed to a much more listening-friendly way. Music sounded less stressful and harsh. A bit warmer and a bit bassier too (thanks to the NE5532 stock opamps). The soundstage got just a tad wider than before. However, I highly recommend rolling your own opamps on them. I'm using the AD797BR's and the LME49990's right now and I must admit, they are a worthwhile upgrade over the stock ones.
  I would consider an upgrade over the stock cables too, as aftermarket cables can actually improve the sound on the HD 800 noticeably (maybe some with a sleeving that matches the color of your HD 800's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).
   
  Have fun with your new toy =)


----------



## cssarrow

I was going to comment about it looking similar to Jamaican colors, but you've beaten me to it.
   
  How much did the colorways run you for?
  I'm thinking of getting a white/red one with some black on it.
   
  Gee, i wonder where you'll be able to get an after market cable for those nice headphones.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I was going to comment about it looking similar to Jamaican colors, but you've beaten me to it.
> 
> How much did the colorways run you for?
> I'm thinking of getting a white/red one with some black on it.
> ...


 
  Perhaps, you could build one for us! =)


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Perhaps, you could build one for us! =)


 
  If you do a review, sure why not.
   
  Back to subject, how's the gain switch situation going boys.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Perhaps, you could build one for us! =)


 
  Could!!! this is an insult...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, he can/will build you wonderful cables, with fantastic prices. (now where is my %)


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> If you do a review, sure why not.
> 
> Back to subject, how's the gain switch situation going boys.


 
  Simply put it "Its not there".
   
  And no one on the WWW can prove me wrong!


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Simply put it "Its not there".
> 
> And no one on the WWW can prove me wrong!


 

 Not even Asus can :/


----------



## cssarrow

i have my Essence One stripped naked right now, and i wouldn't know any possible places for them to put it.
  Best place for it, would be where they red mark circled it, but since you don't have it on your model, i doubt it was ever incorporated.
   
  Tim


----------



## JustinGN

cssarrow said:


> I was going to comment about it looking similar to Jamaican colors, but you've beaten me to it.
> 
> How much did the colorways run you for?
> I'm thinking of getting a white/red one with some black on it.
> ...




That's a new one! I've heard them called Packers and John Deere colors, but Jamaica is a new one. Frankly, they're just my favorite color scheme, and there were no accent parts small enough to work in safety orange somewhere (though if I could paint the screws, Hm...). Also haven't received my frequency response chart from Sennheiser yet.

As for price, Colorware sells them for $1500 with original Sennheiser warranty. If you decide to go that route, be warned that my experience is the company is completely uncommunicative and unapologetic about any delays; it took almost seven weeks from my order being placed before they arrived, despite a quote of "about four weeks" and their website claiming "Ships in three weeks". The paint job is phenomenal, though.


----------



## cssarrow

I've just been turned off by the price.
   
  I'll just have to paint the one i have.
  I've had no previous skills in painting, but come on, what can go wrong.
   








   
  Tim


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I've just been turned off by the price.
> 
> I'll just have to paint the one i have.
> I've had no previous skills in painting, but come on, what can go wrong.
> ...


----------



## cssarrow

Kill it! Kill it with fire!


----------



## JustinGN

cssarrow said:


> I've just been turned off by the price.




They're the same price as a new pair of HD 800s? It's quite a deal.


----------



## cssarrow

Wonder how the essence would look with flat 3mm's


----------



## JustinGN

cssarrow said:


> Wonder how the essence would look with flat 3mm's




Do a rainbow! Red for 16/44.1 (CD Redbook, get it?) up to white (instead of using indigo in the rainbow) for bit perfect.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





justingn said:


> Do a rainbow! Red for 16/44.1 (CD Redbook, get it?) up to white (instead of using indigo in the rainbow) for bit perfect.


 
  Sorry :"[
   
  I'm going for Red/UV.
  Rainbow/Google colors would not match my set-up scheme.
   
*Tim*


----------



## acidic

turokrocks said:


> +1, that makes me really mad, esp. coming from a well known company like ASUS.
> 
> I could have gotten myself the normal version and bought the muses myself and could have saved about $250
> I am not going to pay a single penny for shipping, as this is Asus mistake.
> I will not make  a fuss of it, but I will be cool, hoping Asus will help me as they know I am a faithful customer.....the ball is in their ground.


I feel for you bro... It's a long wait for your toy and you even go through a difficult path by asking someone to purchase on your behalf and now this has happened. Asus should compensate you for your time - not just the swapping only. I'm also a faithful with Asus.... You should see my rig, and now I'm beginning to think they are getting more complacent....


----------



## acidic

cssarrow said:


> i have my Essence One stripped naked right now, and i wouldn't know any possible places for them to put it.
> Best place for it, would be where they red mark circled it, but since you don't have it on your model, i doubt it was ever incorporated.
> 
> Tim


They don't even have a illustration to show us how it looks like, it's like a myth - either it's super top secret that it shouldn't let the public know or they don't want acknowledge that the gain jumper exist in the first place. And now they are saying it could be a batch issue? So even 6moon reviewed set was a lemoned one? Cause I never see that supposed gain jumper in there as well.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





acidic said:


> They don't even have a illustration to show us how it looks like, it's like a myth - either it's super top secret that it shouldn't let the public know or they don't want acknowledge that the gain jumper exist in the first place. And now they are saying it could be a batch issue? So even 6moon reviewed set was a lemoned one? Cause I never see that supposed gain jumper in there as well.


 
  True.
   
  I've read the 6moons review of the Essence One most likely around 9-10 times before making my decision on buying it.
  Never did i say them have a close up or detailed description of placement and usage.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Thought I post some pictures as well.
*(click to enlarge)*


----------



## cssarrow

Very nice Kenion.
   
  Did you photoshop that red in there for the power button?
   
  Let me show you the legit one in just about an hour.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Very nice Kenion.
> 
> Did you photoshop that red in there for the power button?
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you.
  Yes, I did it for you


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Thank you.
> Yes, I did it for you


 
  I had a feeling you'd do it for me
   
  awww gee, now i feel all weird inside.
   
  It's going to be 3x brighter though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Tim


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I had a feeling you'd do it for me
> 
> awww gee, now i feel all weird inside.
> 
> ...


 

 Don't forget to re-assamble your E1 before you make pictures...


----------



## JustinGN

Been tinkering with the E1 here, and I've run into my first issue.  For whatever reason, the FWUpdateEndUser.exe program refuses to start, and I can't update the firmware.  Killing the process in Task Manager does -nothing-, mandating a reboot to give myself another shot at things.  Following the PDF guide to install their C-Media drivers over the USB Composite device did absolutely nothing either, and compatibility mode is rubbish as well!
   
  Running up-to-date W7 x64. Checking event viewer now, but any ideas in the interim?  I recall reading about a USB selector mode that tells the E1 to operate at USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 for audio, but I can't find it again for the life of me, and I'm wondering if that may help matters.
   
  FWIW, I did get the MCU upgraded.  Now I just need the Firmware done.


----------



## acidic

justingn said:


> Been tinkering with the E1 here, and I've run into my first issue.  For whatever reason, the FWUpdateEndUser.exe program refuses to start, and I can't update the firmware.  Killing the process in Task Manager does -nothing-, mandating a reboot to give myself another shot at things.  Following the PDF guide to install their C-Media drivers over the USB Composite device did absolutely nothing either, and compatibility mode is rubbish as well!
> 
> Running up-to-date W7 x64. Checking event viewer now, but any ideas in the interim?  I recall reading about a USB selector mode that tells the E1 to operate at USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 for audio, but I can't find it again for the life of me, and I'm wondering if that may help matters.
> 
> FWIW, I did get the MCU upgraded.  Now I just need the Firmware done.


Did you check the log of your security software? Try to disable or exit those security software on your computer and try again. Also use an USB 2.0 not 3.0 port or another 2.0 port. Hope this works for you.


----------



## JustinGN

Quote: 





acidic said:


> Did you check the log of your security software? Try to disable or exit those security software on your computer and try again. Also use an USB 2.0 not 3.0 port or another 2.0 port. Hope this works for you.


 
   
  No USB 3.0 ports
  Software doesn't close, even taskkill and process explorer can't kill the process. A reboot is required to try again.
  Security/AV software wasn't causing an issue.
   
  The issue was (apparently) my Dell U2410 Monitor (first revision).  When I unplugged it from the same USB host controller as my ASUS E1, it magically was able to update the firmware just fine.  I still get crackle and pop on a 24/176.2 file though, so I'm still trying to hunt down that alleged USB 1.1/USB 2.0 switch to see if that can fix it.
   
  In the interim, now that it's updated? It's making my HD 800s *sing*. Listening to Electronica and Pop brings out that full bodied sound I was missing on the Fiio E9/E17.  Oh bass, how I missed thee.


----------



## cssarrow

These look like mini cat eyes now.



*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Another *GREAT* review that states that the jumper do exist, but did they check it?
  http://soundnews.ro/2013/02/13/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-review-english-version/

  Anybody can spot any difference? other than the pcb being black?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Another review that states that the jumper do exist, but did they check it?
> http://soundnews.ro/2013/02/13/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-review-english-version/
> 
> Anybody can spot any difference? other than the pcb being black?


 
  That sucks man I was considering selling my standard edition for the muses, mainly for that gain switch because my TH900s are so efficient 9 oclock is max for me. so after your experience I think I will go for another dac unfortunately, plus I need true balanced xlr out


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gandah said:


> That sucks man I was considering selling my standard edition for the muses, mainly for that gain switch because my TH900s are so efficient 9 oclock is max for me. so after your experience I think I will go for another dac unfortunately, plus I need true balanced xlr out


 
  Yep, big time.
  The only reason I got this (other than the Muses) is this switch.
  I really feel let down by ASUS, and it sucks when you pay premium, but Asus will fix this in the best/most appropriate matter, as we are not talking about a small company, but one of the biggest and best companies in PC hardware, with lots of innovation.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Yep, big time.
> The only reason I got this (other than the Muses) is this switch.
> I really feel let down by ASUS, and it sucks when you pay premium, but Asus will fix this is the best/most appropriate matter, as we are not talking about a small company, but one of the biggest and best companies in PC hardware, with lots of innovation.


 

 Absolutely man, I've always been a big fan of asus, however my 6 month old rog rampage 4 motherboard died 3 weeks ago and they have not replaced it yet, and now your story, hmm not such a big fan after all
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  PS: are you sure their muses..........Jokes


----------



## Gandah

Actually I'm not jumping to any conclusions but who did you buy the muses edition through, and has asus ask you for the S/N?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Actually I'm not jumping to any conclusions but who did you buy the muses edition through, and has asus ask you for the S/N?


 
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/181071415528?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  They are closed for CNY until the 17th of this month.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





gandah said:


> That sucks man I was considering selling my standard edition for the muses, mainly for that gain switch because my TH900s are so efficient 9 oclock is max for me. so after your experience I think I will go for another dac unfortunately, plus I need true balanced xlr out


 
  According to asus the xlr outputs on the one are true balanced.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> According to asus the xlr outputs on the one are true balanced.


 

 think it has to be duel mono to be true balanced. however Im not 100% sure. just going from what i have read


----------



## cssarrow

I also heard from ASUS that the XLR are fully balanced.
   
  Tim


----------



## turokrocks

Another review:
  http://www.audiostream.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition


----------



## acidic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Another *GREAT* review that states that the jumper do exist, but did they check it?
> http://soundnews.ro/2013/02/13/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-review-english-version/
> Anybody can spot any difference? other than the pcb being black?


 
  my new base version E1's pcb is also black in color.... which makes it no diff from yours...


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





acidic said:


> my new base version E1's pcb is also black in color.... which makes it no diff from yours...


 
  ...and the Muses do not make that big difference, so your OK....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  P.S: I can confirm that the sound is getting better, and I can assure you guys, that this DAC/amp is one one the most comfortable I ever used, no fatigue what so ever even after hours of listing.
   
  I am loving it more and more.....and I don't know how I will  bare shipping it back...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, as everything else sounds "Dull" now as to Soulless.


----------



## Kenion

Great to hear that you guys enjoy your new E1 despite the missing gain selector.


----------



## Wfojas

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> ...and the Muses do not make that big difference, so your OK....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I do too. I've been running it since Tuesday last week, and it sounded even better last night. My problem with it is that while it sounds really pleasant and comfortable, I do know that it is definitely inaccurate, as really bad recordings sound tolerable with this setup. Odd dilemma, I know, but I would like something more neutral, as this may tend to overcook already balanced, warm recordings.
   
  But no fatigue is right, even with the K701s playing rock.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

TL;DR
   
  What is the consensus on the Muses edition? Good buy or not?


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





acidic said:


> my new base version E1's pcb is also black in color.... which makes it no diff from yours...


 
  I got my E1 when they were first released and mine has black pcb, not that the color makes any difference in quality.


----------



## upside

I have been following this thread from the beginning so I thought I would chime in.
   
  My new E1 Muses also does not have the gain switch. After having a look at the updates on this thread I thought I should check - been too busy enjoying the sound. I too will be interested in what Asus says here and will also follow up with my retailer.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





wfojas said:


> I do too. I've been running it since Tuesday last week, and it sounded even better last night. My problem with it is that while it sounds really pleasant and comfortable, I do know that it is definitely inaccurate, as really bad recordings sound tolerable with this setup. Odd dilemma, I know, but I would like something more neutral, as this may tend to overcook already balanced, warm recordings.
> 
> But no fatigue is right, even with the K701s playing rock.


 
  That is why I decided to get the Audio-gd Compass 2 (or the NFB-27 if Asus reimbursed me) with Sabre ESS9018, which is known for its neutral and revealing signature.
  To be honest, we need to enjoy music, as we are not a Studio recording or something, as long we have something that makes me smile for hours.
  If this setup was open/clear and revealing , I would tell you , the HD800 will sound really bad with this setup, and most of who owns the HD800, loves how it sounds with it.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





upside said:


> I have been following this thread from the beginning so I thought I would chime in.
> 
> My new E1 Muses also does not have the gain switch. After having a look at the updates on this thread I thought I should check - been too busy enjoying the sound. I too will be interested in what Asus says here and will also follow up with my retailer.


 
  Thank you for sharing, and always its nice to hear/read from what new members have to say.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





upside said:


> I have been following this thread from the beginning so I thought I would chime in.
> 
> My new E1 Muses also does not have the gain switch. After having a look at the updates on this thread I thought I should check - been too busy enjoying the sound. I too will be interested in what Asus says here and will also follow up with my retailer.


 

 Welcome to the forums upside!
  Enjoy your music, because thats why we're all here.


----------



## upside

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you for sharing, and always its nice to hear/read from what new members have to say.


 
  Thank you turokrocks for posting the updated information and pictures of your E1 Muses. Unless I'd seen your pictures I might not have opened my E1 Muses to confirm what Asus said should be there.
   
  I also own the original version of the E1 that I recently upgraded to a Plus version and can say every step up in op-amps has been very worthwhile. Sometimes it's just nice to forget about the gear and enjoy the music.


----------



## turokrocks

I know exactly what you mean about enjoying the sound, its so enjoyable, and never felt like this before, as from the moment I put my HE-500, I never feel the urge to remove them to get a break, even after long play, it just takes you to another dimension of "Enjoyable Music dimension".
 My Friend who is all about vinyl, was totally surprised when he listened to it. He said that with all the LEDs , buttons and chips, it still does not sound "Digital" and even its not "Truly  warm " as a tube amp, but its a combination between vinyl+CD, and he is truly thinking about getting one (and that says something)
  
 The details are there but not over exaggerated, as to hurt your ears. Guys lets be honest, you want something that revealing that makes your ears hurt or just "To live the moment".
  
  
 Asus you made a wonderful DAC/amp, a very enjoyable one, thank you


----------



## upside

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Welcome to the forums upside!
> Enjoy your music, because thats why we're all here.


 
  Thank you Kenion.
   
  I've got to say I've learned alot from you guys - particularly on op-amp selection for the E1 - and hope to contribute more to the forum in the future.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## cssarrow

Agree fully with everything that Turok has said.
   
  It has the benefits of Vinyl & CD.
  It reveals the detail of music, yet doesn't overly embellish it.
  Has a warm rounded sound, but not over the top unlike some tube amps that i've used, which i very much like. (LYR stock, i did not like)
   
  This DAC was what made me sell my NuForce HDP, it just literally smacks it hard in the face.
  I love my MUSE01 & 49710HA combo as they are much less cold sounding than the LM4562.
  Would be the perfect all in one if these things were resolved/possible

 *tsst (ssss) sound on certain songs when using various op-amps (OPA627, LME49720NA, LME49720HA, LME49710HA, OPA2132, AD797BRZ, OPA2111AM) [Minor with LM4562 & MUSES01] - Doesn't happen on NuForce HDP, it rolls off that *high* sharp "tsst".*
 *Gain Switch not found*
 *Firmware MCU Frimware Update Issues*
 *ASUS should sell the MUSES01's as an upgrade kit*
 *Stock LED color may not appeal to everyone (please add more choices) baby blue is for girls.*
 *Cheap Plastic Buttons*
   
  Other issues like wrong power cord or tards forgetting to switch to the right voltage input can be resolved with a cheap cord or fuse.
  The Essence One takes two 250V 1A fuses.
   
  Those are just some of my quick thoughts.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Agree fully with everything that Turok has said.
> 
> It has the benefits of Vinyl & CD.
> It reveals the detail of music, yet doesn't overly embellish it.
> ...


 
   
  Agree to everything you guys have mentioned above.
   
  About your "sss" sibilance problem on certain songs. I highly recommend trying out the LME49990's. Even though they tend to get quite hot, I always find myself comming back to them, they simply seem to soothe all the the harsh/aggressive treble for most of my recordings. I use them on the I/V section of the E1.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Agree to everything you guys have mentioned above.
> 
> About your "sss" sibilance problem on certain songs. I highly recommend trying out the LME49990's. Even though they tend to get quite hot, I always find myself comming back to them, they simply seem to soothe all the the harsh/aggressive treble for most of my recordings. I use them on the I/V section of the E1.


 
  Sorry, at best i was substitute them into buffer only, but i doubt they'll be stable there.
   
  I'm keeping muses01 in I/V and LFP. Never taking them out, as i don't $50* $59* op-amps to go to waste.
   
  I'll try the LME49990 in buffer to see if it does any smoothing there.
   
  Thanks.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I'm keeping muses01 in I/V and LFP. Never taking them out, as i don't $50* $59* op-amps to go to waste.


 
   
  Sure, that makes sense. Just wanted to let you know, what other options you might have to _eventually _solve your problem with the _[sss]_.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Sure, that makes sense. Just wanted to let you know, what other options you might have to _eventually _solve your problem with the _[sss]_.


 
  It would solve the problem, but may degrade sound quality.
   
  As of the moment, it's kind of like me being only able to drive up to 50MPH with a Ferrari, opposed to driving as fast as i want with a  Nissan 370Z.
  I'd still pick going 50 on the freeway with the Ferrari.
   
  It's funny i know, but in some strange way, it all makes sense.
   
  My example doesn't really connect to anything relevant, as this is a the interior of a DAC that's being covered up lols.
  It's all mind set.. its all mindset..
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> It would solve the problem, but may degrade sound quality.
> 
> As of the moment, it's kind of like me being only able to drive up to 50MPH with a Ferrari, opposed to driving as fast as i want with a  Nissan 370Z.
> I'd still pick going 50 on the freeway with the Ferrari.
> ...


 
   
  If no one's "there" watching me drive my ferrari at 50 mph (in our case _volume_) on that freeway, than I would rather spend my time in a Nissan 370Z full speed on that same freeway. And as I rather prefer to _turn **** up _when my music asks for it, annoying/fatiguing treble is much more an issue to me than some lack in detail. I listen to 320kb mp3's most of the time anyway. So, some "details" or say "noise from audio compression", better stays hidden to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (just my personal opinion)
   
  Nonetheless, upgrading the opamps on the E1 gave me a noticeably amount of extra detail and soundstage over the stock ones already


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Agree fully with everything that Turok has said.
> 
> It has the benefits of Vinyl & CD.
> It reveals the detail of music, yet doesn't overly embellish it.
> ...


 
  Asus, the built quality of the of the body compared to the quality of volume knobs, is like using a cheap non branded ugly wheels with a ferrari, it just kills the whole feeling of "Premium", and it will look so ugly
   
  You have a very good product, and with some careful attention , it will be a killer product.
   
  At least please provide us with a replacement knobs, made of Aluminum or other material...or offer a super upgrade kit. You should make a kit for all your Asus one your selling/sold , as for people to "bling" theirs....and I know many who are willing to pay for it (better knobs,(replacement for the lost screws!!!),Opamps,hifi grade audio cable, Hifi USB cable..etc.....) you will make money and happy customers...right guys???


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> If no one's "there" watching me drive my ferrari at 50 mph (in our case _volume_) on that freeway, than I would rather spend my time in a Nissan 370Z full speed on that same freeway. And as I rather prefer to _turn **** up _when my music asks for it, annoying/fatiguing treble is much more an issue to me than some lack in detail. I listen to 320kb mp3's most of the time anyway. So, some "details" or say "noise from audio compression", better stays hidden to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What?! 320kbps? FLAC it now! ahhhh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Mp3 does get rid of some overly revealing frequencies, yes, but it sounds less refined/detailed, so that's not always a good for some people. Like it's funny. The "treble" isn't the issue. I could sit there and listen to the most surpremo vocal there is, and there would be no problem. but when hitting those certain songs with the "tssst", it instantly sends mini flying daggers at my ear drums.
   
  What bothers me, is that i should be hearing it on the HDP, but i do not, so ultimately it's with the Essence One.
  Rolling op-amps adds and remove many things, all except for that annoying frequency that comes with the song and how the E1 plays it. it sucks.
   
  I like the Essence One, as it's one of my best purchases, so i'm sticking with ASUS and choosing not selling it.
  Maybe things will be better with the Essence Zero.
   


turokrocks said:


> Asus, the built quality of the of the body compared to the quality of volume knobs, is like using a cheap non branded ugly wheels with a ferrari, it just kills the whole feeling of "Premium", and it will look so ugly
> 
> You have a very good product, and with some careful attention , it will be a killer product.
> 
> At least please provide us with a replacement knobs, made of Aluminum or other material...or offer a super upgrade kit. You should make a kit for all your Asus one your selling/sold , as for people to "bling" theirs....and I know many who are willing to pay for it (better knobs,(replacement for the lost screws!!!),Opamps,hifi grade audio cable, Hifi USB cable..etc.....) you will make money and happy customers...right guys???


 

   
  Well this was kind of their first "real" take at the audiophile world.
  They probably didn't know that we treat audio products in terms of mod, as much as PC gamers do with PC's.
   
  Before, I've spent a day looking for aluminum buttons, but none of them were the right size and most i found were only knobs.
  I'm planning on painting the buttons tomorrow with a glossy white coat.
  I hope it will look good with the black casing and red emitted led lights.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Looks like a good and neutral combination with the ad797br is the 797 in i/v, 49720ha in lpf and opa2132 in buffer. Sound character seems to be the same as with the original ne5532 but improved in every way.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> but when hitting those certain songs with the "tssst", it instantly sends mini flying daggers at my ear drums.


 
  dem* flying daggers*... they surely make your ears bleed.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> dem* flying daggers*... they surely make your ears bleed.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


>


 
   
  Surely not going to watch *that* movie with headphones on...


----------



## jpelg

So are we saying that _all_ Muses edition models do not have the internal gain switch, or just specific samples?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





jpelg said:


> So are we saying that _all_ Muses edition models do not have the internal gain switch, or just specific samples?


 
  2 who own the muses edition (including me) confirm that, and I asked many reviewers who did the review to confirm.
   I checked all the images of the Muses edition on the net, and not seen the gain switch!
   
  I did not buy a sample, but a fully fledged retail product which should have this gain.
   
_*Anyone who owns the muses edition might lend  a hand and check if they have it???*_


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

HE-500 + E1 Muses? Good combo?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> HE-500 + E1 Muses? Good combo?


 
  All done with the HE-500:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1545#post_9166588
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1545#post_9168065
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1545#post_9168105


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> HE-500 + E1 Muses? Good combo?


 
  I have the HE-500.
  The muses Essence One outputs plenty of power for it.
  Sounds a lot better than everything else that i have listened with, that's including a Schiit Asgard and LYR.
   
  I'm going to my friends house today to strip naked his Essence One MUSES and compare it to mine side by side to check for changes.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I have the HE-500.
> The muses Essence One outputs plenty of power for it.
> Sounds a lot better than everything else that i have listened with, that's including a Schiit Asgard and LYR.
> 
> ...


 
  Tim, you mean the Muses edition? this will be great as we need to see if any got the "Elusive gain switch".


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Tim, you mean the Muses edition? this will be great as we need to see if any got the "Elusive gain switch".


 
  Yeah.
  I'm going to check his genuine muses to see what changes they're made.
   
  We're going to check at everything including under the pcb.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Going to order some OPA2111KP's. They are listed as "recommended" on the Asus manual.
  From what I've read they seem to have a really good bass, soundstage and a somewhat lower treble - which is exactly what I'm looking for.
  Does anyone already had the chance to try them out?
   
  Update: Also going to check out the OPA2227's


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I have the HE-500.
> The muses Essence One outputs plenty of power for it.
> Sounds a lot better than everything else that i have listened with, that's including a Schiit Asgard and LYR.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You tested with a biftost+lyr and bifrost+ asgard and prefer the Muses? How would you say the sound compared to the Schiit stacks?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> You tested with a biftost+lyr and bifrost+ asgard and prefer the Muses? How would you say the sound compared to the Schiit stacks?


 
   
  Correct.
   
  Perhaps it was a little bias, as i dislike tube amps, but that doesn't explain it with the Asgard.
  the LYR i'll admit could have had better tubes, but once i don't like something in the beginning i choose to ignore it entirely, thus was why i sold it.
   
  The Essence One sounds loads better the the Schiit Modi/Magni.
  I bought that due to affordability and only use it at work.
   
  For under $900, the Essence One is a "must get" DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp.
  That is, if you are looking for a 3 in 1 combo.
   
  If you want something a little more over the top, getting a NuForce DAC-100 paired with a balanced headphone amplifier would most likely be better, but more expensive.
   
*Tim*


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Correct.
> 
> Perhaps it was a little bias, as i dislike tube amps, but that doesn't explain it with the Asgard.
> the LYR i'll admit could have had better tubes, but once i don't like something in the beginning i choose to ignore it entirely, thus was why i sold it.
> ...


 
   
   
  Cool, thanks for the reply. I tried the original E1 and I wasn't that impressed I guess those $50 opamps really do the trick huh?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Cool, thanks for the reply. I tried the original E1 and I wasn't that impressed I guess those $50 opamps really do the trick huh?


 
  I don't like the stock NE5532 one bit.
   
  It's only good once you incorporate it with other op-amps.
  You'll have to go through some intensive work to find the right balance.
   
  MUSES did it for me.
  I was going to return the Essence One after hearing the stock NE5532 as they sounded worst than NuForce HDP.
  After switching to MUSES01's, i sold the HDP so that tells you something.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Wfojas

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> That is why I decided to get the Audio-gd Compass 2 (or the NFB-27 if Asus reimbursed me) with Sabre ESS9018, which is known for its neutral and revealing signature.
> To be honest, we need to enjoy music, as we are not a Studio recording or something, as long we have something that makes me smile for hours.
> If this setup was open/clear and revealing , I would tell you , the HD800 will sound really bad with this setup, and most of who owns the HD800, loves how it sounds with it.


 
  I agree, life is too short to not enjoy. I did crack open the unit last night, and as everyone reported, no Gain switch, which actually closes out the only other reason I would have kept it. Maybe when they finally ship ones built with the correct boards. Asus is going out on an dangerous limb here, first sending out samples to get reviewed, with no supply to fill the demand, then shipping European configured lunits (non of the power cords we use in North American homes), then this.
   
  Asus is a well, well, well respected company in the motherboard business, maybe even better than Apple in its stellar position, so these missteps are odd to say the least. On to something else....


----------



## 4Real

I had to RMA a few Asus Nexus 7 because of screen lift on one side never did get one with out it, cant say I would be happy to get a Muses Edition with a missing gain switch, assuming I still have my hearing when it finally makes an appearance in the UK


----------



## turokrocks

Still waiting for any update from Asus!


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> No, i just did some measurements it cuts the high frequencies also on usb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting Whit3Rav3n,
  I'll have to test mine again. I thought the USB was OK on mine...
   
  Nonetheless, for sure the TosLink and coaxial's are being lowpassed when upsampled below 15kHz which is AUDIBLE and IMO a significant firmware bug when playing 16/44 audio.
   
*ASUS - PLEASE FIX THIS BUG WHICH HAMPERS THE USE OF THE UPSAMPLING FEATURE!!!*
   
  Thanks...


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Still waiting for any update from Asus!


 
   
   
  HQ just got back today and are setting something up for this as we speak. For now, send me your details via PM and I will forward them.


----------



## cssarrow

Great.
   
  Hopefully this gets solved soon.
  I would love to use the upsampling function, however when i use it, the frequencies seems to drop, and everything becomes overly smooth/blended.
   
  Would be a great attribute for treble heavy songs.
  Should roll off some of the harshness and make MP3 more enjoyable.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> HQ just got back today and are setting something up for this as we speak. For now, send me your details via PM and I will forward them.


 
  PM sent with details.
   
  Your help in this matter is really appreciated & thanked, and I am sure Asus will never disappoint.


----------



## midnightfox

Hi ASUSXONAR,
   
  Fist of all thanks for your input on the forums as I'm sure most us appreciate when companies get involved and provide support and input within the community.
   
  In regards to my query, I'm thinking of upgrading my Essence One and I'm curios to know if ASUS have any plans to sell OP AMPS like the MUSES01 through there distribution channels to the general public as its fairly difficult to obtain the recommended MUSES01 OP AMPS. 
   
  Currently it's only available through Digy-Key if purchasing 100 + units or an eBay seller that is selling it for an inflated price directly from China.
   
  Any input on this subject would be greatly appreciated. 
   
  Cheers,


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Hi Midnightfox,
   
   
  Sorry, there are no plans for us to distribute the op-amps on their own.
   
   
  Regards


----------



## upside

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> HQ just got back today and are setting something up for this as we speak. For now, send me your details via PM and I will forward them.


 
  PM also sent.
   
  Thank you Asusxonar for your help in this matter.


----------



## Kenion

Yes, thanks a lot for looking into it Asus!
  Highly appreciate it!
  I didn't expect anything else from you


----------



## Wfojas

I got an RMA from Newegg today to return the AEXOM today, and saw that it automatically charged me a restocking fee. When I got to customer service, they graciously waived it, but asked if  I had seen the gainswitch feature from their website or the manufacturer's website. And I had to admit I didn't see it on theirs, and when I looked, neither was it on the Asus website. So the information about the gainswitch originated from the interview(s) the development team had given on the differences between models, and the subsequent (numerous) quotes of these?
   
  Odd.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I also heard from ASUS that the XLR are fully balanced.
> 
> Tim


 
  Ok so I decided to do some research on what is a true balanced dac/amp and came to this conclusion. True balanced is a dac or amp that has fully independent mono circuitry for each of its channels. For example HeadAmps, yet to be released GS-X mkll amp has mono circuitry right down to the power supply

  However, I have not seen or have read about a dac with 2 independent power supplies which I feel is unnecessary unless you have 3, one for digital, two for mono analog, but I have read about dac's that have fully independent mono circuitry, which takes place after the digital signal is decoded to analog.
   
  Unless you know what looking at you won't know, for eg: I still don't know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So the Best bet is to ask ASUSXONAR, Immediately after digital has the essence one got independent mono analog circuitry to the XLR balanced out, to make it a true balanced out?


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





gandah said:


> So the Best bet is to ask ASUSXONAR, Immediately after detail has the essence one got independent mono analog circuitry to the XLR balanced out, to make it a true balanced out?


 
   
   
  Yes, the DACs are dual mono (differential current output) and the signal is passed to the balanced outputs without converting it to single ended.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Yes, the DACs are dual mono (differential current output) and the signal is passed to the balanced outputs without converting it to single ended.


 

 Cool thanks ASUSXONAR, good to know, now I have the confidence to stick with my E1 with my incoming balanced amp, and more then likely now will upgrade to muses opamps


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Yes, the DACs are dual mono (differential current output) and the signal is passed to the balanced outputs without converting it to single ended.


 
   
  Quote: 





gandah said:


> Ok so I decided to do some research on what is a true balanced dac/amp and came to this conclusion. True balanced is a dac or amp that has fully independent mono circuitry for each of its channels. For example HeadAmps, yet to be released GS-X mkll amp has mono circuitry right down to the power supply
> 
> However, I have not seen or have read about a dac with 2 independent power supplies which I feel is unnecessary unless you have 3, one for detail, two for mono analog, but I have read about dac's that have fully independent mono circuitry, which takes place after the digital signal is decoded to analog.
> 
> ...


 
  I did an extensive A/B between the balanced XLR and standard output to my airmotiv speakers, and I did notice a cleaner (more refined) sound from the XLR  compared to the normal which also sounded a bit warmer. You have to know the song you are A/bing very well to find the small differences, and in the end I preferred the XLR .
  Yesterday, while doing some work and listing to the Asus Muses , I found myself stopping everything I am doing and just sit and relax with the music coming from the Muses, as its so well balanced and enjoyable, I really wish you guys would understand what I am talking.
  I can't put it in words, but the Asus Muses is opening/burning really well after some time (about 100 hours) and it sounds "Musical" to my ears, in the sense that it makes you "fall in love again with your collection" even the Vinyl rips I made to 96/24 with all the "crackles/noise" I find them less irritating, and enjoying them again. Sometimes measurements are not enough to convey the real SQ, you need to hear yourself.
  I am not over hyping, and I did my research before I got the Muses , did I make the right choice? Its not because I own it, as I can return it , but because I am really enjoying it. To put it simply, sometimes you eat an apple almost perfect in size color texture..etc, but its tasteless no enjoyment  , on the other hand you eat an apple a far cry from being perfect in color and shape, but it is so delicious that you  forget about all the other bad stuff, and that is what the Muses does, it sounds so "Musical" that you just can't get get enough, yes that much.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I did an extensive A/B between the balanced XLR and standard output to my airmotiv speakers, and I did notice a cleaner (more refined) sound from the XLR  compared to the normal which also sounded a bit warmer. You have to know the song you are A/bing very well to find the small differences, and in the end I preferred the XLR .
> Yesterday, while doing some work and listing to the Asus Muses , I found myself stopping everything I am doing and just sit and relax with the music coming from the Muses, as its so well balanced and enjoyable, I really wish you guys would understand what I am talking.
> I can't put it in words, but the Asus Muses is opening/burning really well after some time (about 100 hours) and it sounds "Musical" to my ears, in the sense that it makes you "fall in love again with your collection" even the Vinyl rips I made to 96/24 with all the "crackles/noise" I find them less irritating, and enjoying them again. Sometimes measurements are not enough to convey the real SQ, you need to hear yourself.
> I am not over hyping, and I did my research before I got the Muses , did I make the right choice? Its not because I own it, as I can return it , but because I am really enjoying it. To put it simply, sometimes you eat an apple almost perfect in size color texture..etc, but its tasteless no enjoyment  , on the other hand you eat an apple a far cry from being perfect in color and shape, but it is so delicious that you  forget about all the other bad stuff, and that is what the Muses does, it sounds so "Musical" that you just can't get get enough, yes that much.


 
  Awesome man, can't wait to tryout balanced XLR muses01 enhanced for myself. I'm glad you are enjoying it


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I did an extensive A/B between the balanced XLR and standard output to my airmotiv speakers, and I did notice a cleaner (more refined) sound from the XLR  compared to the normal which also sounded a bit warmer. You have to know the song you are A/bing very well to find the small differences, and in the end I preferred the XLR .
> Yesterday, while doing some work and listing to the Asus Muses , I found myself stopping everything I am doing and just sit and relax with the music coming from the Muses, as its so well balanced and enjoyable, I really wish you guys would understand what I am talking.
> I can't put it in words, but the Asus Muses is opening/burning really well after some time (about 100 hours) and it sounds "Musical" to my ears, in the sense that it makes you "fall in love again with your collection" even the Vinyl rips I made to 96/24 with all the "crackles/noise" I find them less irritating, and enjoying them again. Sometimes measurements are not enough to convey the real SQ, you need to hear yourself.
> I am not over hyping, and I did my research before I got the Muses , did I make the right choice? Its not because I own it, as I can return it , but because I am really enjoying it. To put it simply, sometimes you eat an apple almost perfect in size color texture..etc, but its tasteless no enjoyment  , on the other hand you eat an apple a far cry from being perfect in color and shape, but it is so delicious that you  forget about all the other bad stuff, and that is what the Muses does, it sounds so "Musical" that you just can't get get enough, yes that much.


 
  Well simplified.
   
  I would agree on the same thing.
  The Essence One with Muses has the most musicality out of anything that i've ever heard.
  Sadly my A5+ does not use XLR, so i will never know what you are talking about regarding a balanced speaker connection.
   
  I was on google trying to find research about why nicely aesthetic apples taste bad, but it kept coming up rated R stuff, so i don't think i should discuss that any further.
   
  The muses makes me feel as though i woke up early to a cup of coffee and ate a nicely made sandwich with a cup of orange juice medium pulp.
   
Now i'm right in harmony
With that doo-wop doo-wop di dee
WHOA, one more cup and its a who-wop shoo-bop for me
Oh, the best part of waking up
Is folgers in your cup
The best part of waking up
Is folgers in your cup
   
  That pretty much summarizes my feelings with Essence One.
   
*Tim*


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I did an extensive A/B between the balanced XLR and standard output to my airmotiv speakers, and I did notice a cleaner (more refined) sound from the XLR  compared to the normal which also sounded a bit warmer. You have to know the song you are A/bing very well to find the small differences, and in the end I preferred the XLR .
> Yesterday, while doing some work and listing to the Asus Muses , I found myself stopping everything I am doing and just sit and relax with the music coming from the Muses, as its so well balanced and enjoyable, I really wish you guys would understand what I am talking.
> I can't put it in words, but the Asus Muses is opening/burning really well after some time (about 100 hours) and it sounds "Musical" to my ears, in the sense that it makes you "fall in love again with your collection" even the Vinyl rips I made to 96/24 with all the "crackles/noise" I find them less irritating, and enjoying them again. Sometimes measurements are not enough to convey the real SQ, you need to hear yourself.
> I am not over hyping, and I did my research before I got the Muses , did I make the right choice? Its not because I own it, as I can return it , but because I am really enjoying it. To put it simply, sometimes you eat an apple almost perfect in size color texture..etc, but its tasteless no enjoyment  , on the other hand you eat an apple a far cry from being perfect in color and shape, but it is so delicious that you  forget about all the other bad stuff, and that is what the Muses does, it sounds so "Musical" that you just can't get get enough, yes that much.


 

 I presume that you have standard IC's at outputs - LME 49720NA for XLR and LM4562NA for RCA. That should make the difference as you described it. Try to swap opamps at outputs.


----------



## cssarrow

I agree with Marasovic.
   
  The two may be the same spec wise, but i hear they're made in different parts of the world , so the material could be a changeable factor.
  Who knows, this could largely affect the sound that you're hearing.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Actually my dac had the 4562 in both the xlr and rca outputs. Only the headphone buffer had 49720. So it looks like that the one comes with the same buffer for xlr and rca.


----------



## cssarrow

Now that i look at it, you're right.
   
  Both XLR and RCA Buffers are LM4562
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I presume that you have standard IC's at outputs - LME 49720NA for XLR and LM4562NA for RCA. That should make the difference as you described it. Try to swap opamps at outputs.


 
  I am dying to start rolling, but I have to wait for my replacement unit (later), than the real "Fun" should start.
   
  Thank you for you suggestion.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I am dying to start rolling, but I have to wait for my replacement unit (later), than the real "Fun" should start.
> 
> Thank you for you suggestions.


 
  Don't tell this to Omar, but he's going to get six NE5532 and three LM4562 with his cables.
   
  shhh.

*Tim*


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Actually my dac had the 4562 in both the xlr and rca outputs. Only the headphone buffer had 49720. So it looks like that the one comes with the same buffer for xlr and rca.


 

 My unit came with 49720 at XLR buffer one year ago (not complaining  ). Swapped for 49720 HA's for a long time there. Testing LT 1028 at I/V and OPA627AU at LPF. They give highly detailed, precise (may I say Studio) sound. The best combination so far was AD797br at I/V with LM4562NA at LPF. They produce natural sound without exagerating anything (no sss), all details are there, sound stage is on it's best and there is no fatigue at all.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> My unit came with 49720 at XLR buffer one year ago (not complaining  ). Swapped for 49720 HA's for a long time there. Testing LT 1028 at I/V and OPA627AU at LPF. They give highly detailed, precise (may I say Studio) sound. The best combination so far was AD797br at I/V with LM4562NA at LPF. They produce natural sound without exagerating anything (no sss), all details are there, sound stage is on it's best and there is no fatigue at all.


 
  I'm pretty sure i've tried that set-up before and still ended up preferring the muses.
   
  I'll give it another go and see if my opinion changes.
   
  Maybe the 2nd time around would drastically lower the "sss".
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> My unit came with 49720 at XLR buffer one year ago (not complaining  ). Swapped for 49720 HA's for a long time there. Testing LT 1028 at I/V and OPA627AU at LPF. They give highly detailed, precise (may I say Studio) sound. The best combination so far was AD797br at I/V with LM4562NA at LPF. They produce natural sound without exagerating anything (no sss), all details are there, sound stage is on it's best and there is no fatigue at all.


 
  I tried that combination as well, the problem was that compared to the 49720ha the 4562 and 49720na are not as detailed. Right now i am trying to find something darker sounding for the buffer to balance out the brightness of the 49720ha. Right now i am using the 2132 which is quite good but the end result is still a little too bright.


----------



## Gandah

Hey Tim, because you switch-out you opamps alot do you have your muses permanently mounted on DIP IC sockets? I find it rather difficult switching out without bending the lags


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Hey Tim, because you switch-out you opamps alot do you have your muses permanently mounted on DIP IC sockets? I find it rather difficult switching out without bending the lags


 
   
  I have two different removal tools.
  The OP-AMP Remover, and when i can't find it, i use a standard clamp.
  It has to have the word "Durabuilt" on it, or else it's not built to be durable.


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 

   
  I'm going to put this picture here, because i thought it looked pretty funny,
   

   
   


   
  As for the mounting to DIP8's.
  I remove them from the board and put them on adapters during my testing processes.
  Once i'm done, i put them back onto the Essence One's default DIP 8 socket.
   
  I have eight MUSES01, and two MUSES02  and a bunch of adapters for all of my op-amps.
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 

   


   
  Here are the op-amps that i have.
  Working on getting some more, but as of now, my wallet is running dry, so i need wait for rain-fall.
   


Spoiler: Op-Amps



LM4562, LME49720NA, LME49720HA, LME49710HA, OPA627, MUSES01, MUSES02, AD825, OPA2132, AD797, NE5532, OPA2111


   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I have two different removal tools.
> The OP-AMP Remover, and when i can't find it, i use a standard clamp.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  I have the standard IC clamp and still manage to bend them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  So it won't damage them using long nose pliers?


----------



## ASUSXONAR

You've got to get them out straight upwards really. Any (lateral) rocking movements will bend the legs.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gandah said:


> I have the standard IC clamp and still manage to bend them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  ASUSXONAR is correct.
  Rocking it back and forth makes it bend and ultimately even more stuck.
   
  I use long nose pliers with some tissue paper in between so that it doesn't scrape the side of the op-amps.
  Make sure you clamp it hard and pull it upward and straight out.
  Aim the plier to be exactly on to of the op-amp that you want to remove.
  At such a fast pull, going a little in the wrong direction might be fatal.
   


Spoiler: OP-Amp%20Removal


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> You've got to get them out straight upwards really. Any (lateral) rocking movements will bend the legs.


 
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> ASUSXONAR is correct.
> Rocking it back and forth makes it bend and ultimately even more stuck.
> 
> I use long nose pliers with some tissue paper in between so that it doesn't scrape the side of the op-amps.
> ...


 
  No probs I will try my best next time round. Thanks for the help


----------



## 2NE1

Hopefully the upsampling issue gets fixed along with the gain switch.
   
  Because it sounds very bad as of now.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I tried that combination as well, the problem was that compared to the 49720ha the 4562 and 49720na are not as detailed. Right now i am trying to find something darker sounding for the buffer to balance out the brightness of the 49720ha. Right now i am using the 2132 which is quite good but the end result is still a little too bright.


 

 I've tried 49720ha at LPF and it sounds to me brighter than 4562 that has more volumious low end. 49860 is even more bright. The question is if that brightness gives artifitial details ?
  This can be good for some types of (electronic) music. For evaluating opamps I use acoustic recordings with no amplified instruments, later checking with other.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I've tried 49720ha at LPF and it sounds to me brighter than 4562 that has more volumious low end. 49860 is even more bright. The question is if that brightness _gives artifitial details _?
> This can be good for some types of (electronic) music. For evaluating opamps I use acoustic recordings with no amplified instruments, later checking with other.


 
  Please may you elaborate, thank you.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Please may you elaborate, thank you.


 

 Perception of details is sometimes connected with brighter high frequency reproduction. Somebody may like it, but my goal is to achieve the most natural, easy listening sound.
  If reproducing device is capable of that, EQ is allways at hand to make it other way.


----------



## gattari

@cssarrow
What could you tell about difference between lme 49720ha and dual lme 49710ha on rca output, if any?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I've tried 49720ha at LPF and it sounds to me brighter than 4562 that has more volumious low end. 49860 is even more bright. The question is if that brightness gives artifitial details ?
> This can be good for some types of (electronic) music. For evaluating opamps I use acoustic recordings with no amplified instruments, later checking with other.


 
  I compared the 49720na and ha and i found that the ha was brighter but even with dark sounding instruments clarity and separation seemed better so it is probably not just the added brightness. I also listen to mostly acoustic recordings when testing sound quality. I am goin to try the 49710 once the adapters arrive.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> You've got to get them out straight upwards really. Any (lateral) rocking movements will bend the legs.


 

 This is the best tool for removing any size chip that I've found that doesn't require a lot of force and doesn't damage the IC.  Stick under one side and lift up a bit, go the the other side and lift up a bit ... repeat until chip is free.
   
  http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/96800


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> This is the best tool for removing any size chip that I've found that doesn't require a lot of force and doesn't damage the IC.  Stick under one side and lift up a bit, go the the other side and lift up a bit ... repeat until chip is free.
> 
> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/96800


 

 I do the exact same thing but with two of those on each side and gently push them down (left, right, left right).
  It will look like this: (The "\" and "/" are the flat screwdrivers and the "-" being the opamp): \-/
  It will plop right off with, most of the time and with no bending at all. Like you said.
  If I try the IC-Clamp / tweezer in an upwards vertical motion way, like it's described in the manual or from you guys, the pins always tend to bend heavily. It is just too risky for me that way.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I do the exact same thing but with two of those on each side and gently push them down (left, right, left right).
> It will look like this: (The "\" and "/" are the flat screwdrivers and the "-" being the opamp): \-/
> It will plop right off with, most of the time and with no bending at all. Like you said.
> If I try the IC-Clamp / tweezer in an upwards vertical motion way, like it's described in the manual or from you guys, the pins always tend to bend heavily. It is just too risky for me that way.


 
  Guys, Thank you , you saved me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Which do you think is better?
  http://www.amazon.com/Wiha-26815-5-9-Inch-PicoFinish-Precision/dp/B00433SJBM/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1361297361&sr=1-2&keywords=Chip+Lifter
  http://www.amazon.com/Wiha-26810-5-7-Inch-Precision-Lifter/dp/B00433SJB2/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1361297361&sr=1-1&keywords=Chip+Lifter


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Guys, Thank you , you saved me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The smaller one should be better. However, you can do it just fine with a flat screwdriver or a good pincette.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> I compared the 49720na and ha and i found that the ha was brighter but even with dark sounding instruments clarity and separation seemed better so it is probably not just the added brightness. I also listen to mostly acoustic recordings when testing sound quality. I am goin to try the 49710 once the adapters arrive.


 

 The same for me, I use 49720ha  at headphone and XLR buffers. Looking for 49710.


----------



## DMarasovic

Frequency response at 96 kHz sampling.
  Blue = normal, Brown=upsampling
   

  Frequency response at 44.1 kHz sampling.
  Blue = normal, Brown=upsampling
   
  Measured with Terratec EWX 24/96 souncard.
  At lower picture phase response was not calibrated, but shows relation.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Frequency response at 96 kHz sampling.
> Blue = normal, Brown=upsampling
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you for sharing.
   
  Appreciate your take on the measurements.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I have two different removal tools.
> The OP-AMP Remover, and when i can't find it, i use a standard clamp.
> It has to have the word "Durabuilt" on it, or else it's not built to be durable.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sk1n5

The best way I've found to remove ICs, both at home and in my former profession, is to use a small flat head screwdriver. Place it underneath the chip and twist a little. Swap to the other side and do the same, repeat until its almost out of the socket and you'll be able to remove it by hand.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> The best way I've found to remove ICs, both at home and in my former profession, is to use a small flat head screwdriver. Place it underneath the chip and twist a little. Swap to the other side and do the same, repeat until its almost out of the socket and you'll be able to remove it by hand.


 

 Yep, thats a good method. I'll do that on hard to reach spots too. Just make sure not to scratch the socket or the bottom of the opamp too much.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I tried the srewdriver method the problem starts where it always comes out at one side only first and the other side is still in the socket pretty firmly.In this situation you won´t get it out without bending the legs.I am using [size=11.818181991577148px]combination pliers, it can grab the op-s pretty tight and then i can simply pull them straight out without bending any legs.[/size]


----------



## turokrocks

We  really could use a video demonstrating the best way for removing the opamps or similar , any volunteer?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> We  really could use a video demonstrating the best way for removing the opamps or similar , any volunteer?


 
  I'll do it.
   
  I'll show you 3 different methods.
   
  Should i record on a Nikon D3200 or iPhone 4S? 
   
  OH! Finally i can make use of my Blue Yeti Pro microphone.
  Bought it years ago but never had any reason to use it.
   
  I KNEW THIS DAY WOULD COME!
   
*Tim*


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I'll do it.
> 
> I'll show you 3 different methods.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nikon D3200 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks Tim


----------



## dynamics

Did anyone find out if Asus has included the the gain switcher on all the Muses editions or was there an error somewhere and not all of them have it?  I am using the Denon D7000 with the Muses and never go about 8'oclock position.  It gets way to loud above that.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Did anyone find out if Asus has included the the gain switcher on all the Muses editions or was there an error somewhere and not all of them have it?  I am using the Denon D7000 with the Muses and never go about 8'oclock position.  It gets way to loud above that.


 
  They probably didn't put gain switch on any of them.
   
  And i noticed you're using Audioengine A5+!
   
  High five brother!
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/644525/audioengine-a5-speaker-upgrades
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> They probably didn't put gain switch on any of them.
> 
> And i noticed you're using Audioengine A5+!
> 
> ...


 
  High five brother!  A5+ rock!  They are truly a joy to listen too.  They still surprise me by how good they sound.  Amazing speakers.
   
  That is very strange.  Do you know why they didn't include it on any of them?  I thought that was one of the their "big" upgrades in the new model 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> They probably didn't put gain switch on any of them.
> 
> And i noticed you're using Audioengine A5+!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you using the stock speaker wire that came with speakers or a different one? or banana plugs?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> High five brother!  A5+ rock!  They are truly a joy to listen too.  They still surprise me by how good they sound.  Amazing speakers.
> 
> That is very strange.  Do you know why they didn't include it on any of them?  I thought that was one of the their "big" upgrades in the new model
> 
> ...


 
  Their only 2 main upgrades is the Gain Switch & MUSES01 op-amps.
   
  Other small things you might notice is a Black PCB and "Chime of Tiger".
  They must have forgotten them because it was such a simple upgrade release, that they didn't put too much effort into quality checks.
   
  I've done so many things with the A5+, it's now an entirely different breed.
   
   


> Are you using the stock speaker wire that came with speakers or a different one? or banana plugs?


 
  Internally, i swapped out the wire with silver plated occ.
  Externally, i ditched the stock AWG 16 speaker wires that came with it.
  Using a cable with 8 silver plated occ wires and a silver plated speaker spade.
  Spades make better contact than banana.
  Banana is only for "ease".
   
  The more wires used lowers the inductance, which helps especially for powered speakers. (read somewhere)
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Their only 2 main upgrades is the Gain Switch & MUSES01 op-amps.
> 
> Other small things you might notice is a Black PCB and "Chime of Tiger".
> They must have forgotten them because it was such a simple upgrade release, that they didn't put too much effort into quality checks.
> ...


 
  Can I return it and get one with the upgraded gain switch?  I'm kind of upset that I paid for something that was supposedly upgraded, but wasn't done.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Can I return it and get one with the upgraded gain switch?  I'm kind of upset that I paid for something that was supposedly upgraded, but wasn't done.


 
  Yes.
  They're going to be offering that.
  Private Message ASUSXONAR and send him the details.
   
  I noticed your FS: Audioengine 5+ thread.
  Two people tried to scam you (1 post accounts)
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Yes.
> They're going to be offering that.
> Private Message ASUSXONAR and send him the details.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, I'm glad I never got rid of them.  I love these speakers and listen to them often.  I wasn't able to use them at that time as much.  But I use them daily now .  I will get in touch with ASUSXONAR and go from there.
   
  I just placed an order for some cables with banana plugs.  I think I will cancel that order.  Where do I get some quality cables with spades already connected?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Yes, I'm glad I never got rid of them.  I love these speakers and listen to them often.  I wasn't able to use them at that time as much.  But I use them daily now .  I will get in touch with ASUSXONAR and go from there.
> 
> I just placed an order for some cables with banana plugs.  I think I will cancel that order.  Where do I get some quality cables with spades already connected?


 
  Yeah. let him know that your's didn't come with a jumper.
   
  YGPM.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

@ cssarrow, the video will be great to test your Nikon D3200 video, and show us what you can do...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.(You promised us)
  It has has been a while since you updated us about the progress related to the DIY upgrades of your E!.
   
  What have you done to your A5+??!!!  its almost 80% different.
   
  I agree the E1 Muses has tons of power and can drive any demanding Headphone with ease, and it shows.
   
  Did anyone try it with the HE-6, just for the sake of it? Please if anyone who owns the E1 (esp. the Muses) can lend/barrow/buy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the HE-6 and see how it sounds, as I did search but came empty handed.
   
  Tim, you have been on a buying spree for some time, will you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> @ cssarrow, the video will be great to test your Nikon D3200 video, and show us what you can do...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm stuck with my A5+ mod, as i'm getting no sound from either channels.
  Been trying to find the culprit for the past 2-3 days.
   
  I've already heard the HE-6 on the Essence One, It sounds somewhat muddy and detail is there, but not significant to me.
  This was when my close colleague and i was experimenting with his headphones collection (it's freaking huge).
  I ended up running them on his dual monoblock's which sounded wayyy better. LIKE WAYYY BETTER.
  He also has a Schiit LYR with upgraded tubes (Amperex 6922 & Siemens CCa) that i tried with the HE-6. 
  Siemens CCa SOUNDS AMAZING. I should of kept my LYR when i had it and rolled some tubes, gosh darn it.
   
  So yeah, in summary, HE-6 doesn't play so well with the muses op amps, and lacks a lot of power.
   
  I'll post the Finalization of my Essence One tomorrow along with the helpful Op-Amp Removal Video.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Your Essence One is "Rest In Pieces" and you were not satisfied with this amp after all?
  These are some shocking news :O
   
  BTW: Since now you got quite a collection... what are your favorite headphones: HD-800, HE-500 or LCD-2 with your preferred music?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Your Essence One is "Rest In Pieces" and you were not satisfied with this amp after all?
> These are some shocking news :O


 
  No lol.
  It was just a joke. (directed toward Turokrocks)
   
  I like it, never selling it.
  You'll see the beast tomorrow.
  I'll be done then.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> No lol.
> It was just a joke. (directed toward Turokrocks)
> 
> I like it, never selling it.
> ...


 

 Great to hear^^
  Sorry updated my post.
  Let us know what you think about your new/old headphones. I'm curious and you haven't said a word about them yet^^ (preferably in conjunction with the E1 _-and maybe others-_ , to keep it related to the thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> No lol.
> It was just a joke. (directed toward Turokrocks)
> 
> I like it, never selling it.
> ...


 
  I will give it to you, as you got me completely off-guard, BIG time, thank you Tim
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  I was like "What the *#&^#@"....
   
  Thank you for the HE-6 comments, now comes the most important question, "how does your souped-up E1 differs from the normal E1, SQ wise after all the changes?"


----------



## cssarrow

I haven't heard much from the LCD-2 and HD-800 as they're being burned in.

 Using multiple audio files designed for burning in new equipment. I have them on repeat. it plays all the audio files which takes about an hour, then it goes through a 10 minute resting period, and the cycle repeats itself, has been for nearly a week actually.

 For vinyl and other old school music(70's and 80's) i like the HD-800.
 For Classical, Jazz, and Solo Vocal Songs like Norah Jones/Leona Lewis/Whitney Houston/Celine Dion, i prefer the HE-500.
 For 95% of other genre's, i prefer the LCD-2. It does well for everything else above too, just not to the level of those headphones.

 As of now, I mainly listen to Ballad, Light Rock, Hip-Hop, and Pop (mainly K-POP)

 All three headphones are heard through pure silver cables.

 Note: This was my opinion when listening through the Essence One.
   
   


turokrocks said:


> I will give it to you, as you got me completely off-guard, BIG time, thank you Tim
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Did someone order Pizza Hut? Because you got p'zoned.
   
  It's not that different sounding versus the original.
  Only a bit more transparent, clear, and 3D dimensional.
  Most of the improvements already comes from the op-amp rolling to LME49710HA, which anyone can do without jeopardizing their E1.
   
  IMO, i don't think the modded Nichicon KA 50V capacitors helped me at all.
  Looks exactly like the KT (same ripple current specifications and everything). However, i could be wrong....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If a souped up E1 doesn't sound that good with the HE-6, i doubt the original would fair any better.
  Bottom line is, if you have $1200 to spend on an HE-6, it's best to give it around 10W of driving power.
  Feed it some Octane 100 racing fuel.
   
  I wish we could have a meet and compare the two side by side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Thanks for the info Tim!
  Glad you are enjoying your new headphones and most importantly, your E1!
  Still waiting for some media from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Keep us posted!


----------



## cssarrow

Trying to get the "Op-amp removal" video done here, but having some trouble with the camera.
   
  Update: Crap, i fell asleep for 7 hours.
   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Trying to get the "Op-amp removal" video done here, but having some trouble with the camera.
> 
> Update: Crap, i fell asleep for 7 hours.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  Tim, take your time with it, just make sure you show us "Everything"....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  I will be glad to help in anyway possible, as we owe you a lot.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Trying to get the "Op-amp removal" video done here, but having some trouble with the camera.
> 
> Update: Crap, i fell asleep for 7 hours.
> 
> *Tim*


 


   
  -
  Agreed to what Turok said.
  No rush Tim


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Tim, take your time with it, just make sure you show us "Everything"....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm reading the manual on how to use the Nikon D3200 right now at 3AM.
  I don't need sleep since i already slept.
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> -
> Agreed to what Turok said.
> No rush Tim


 
  You have the best meme's lol.
  and no! i don't nap with my shoes on!
   
*Tim*


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Just wondering, where did you guys get your Muses and how much did you pay?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, where did you guys get your Muses and how much did you pay?


 
  http://www.excaliberpc.com/622377/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses.html
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xonar-Essence-One-Muse-Ed-MUSES-Editio-Asus-US-XONARESSENCE1MU-/400407805058?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item5d3a2a3c82
   
  Got mine here:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-US-XONARESSENCE1MU-Xonar-Essence-One-MUSES-Editio-Muse-Ed-/181071415528?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2a28b288e8


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Hmm, still cant decide if I want to go with a schiit stack ( lyr+ bifrost) or the e1 muses for my he500 cans. Hmmm


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Hmm, still cant decide if I want to go with a schiit stack ( lyr+ bifrost) or the e1 muses for my he500 cans. Hmmm


 
  Take your time, both are good options, in the beginning what brought me to it was its bit-perfect led indicator where it showed you the bit of the music (as to be sure of  the sample rate), but when I read the reviews and had a very very long conversation with my AMIGO about it and how it sounded with the HE-500 (the Muses not the normal version to be precise), I knew that it is the one (I was swinging between the E1 and the compass2).


----------



## cssarrow

Sound Signature wise, the Essence One Muses did it for me.
  Both Turok and i love it, and we have HE-500's so that's got to tell you something.
   
  LYR/Bifrost is also a good choice, but i did not like it over the E-One.
  I would most definitely change out the tubes if i had the LYR/Bifrost combo again.
   
  Also, to everyone else,
  here's a picture of my amateur photography skills. (on my modified Essence One)
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?32fnw466ortvi7v
   
   
*Tim*


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

I am going to go and see if I can test them both out. I here from others and now you that in order to get the most out of the Lyr you really need to roll the tubes, which is not really something I am looking forward to doing but we will see.
   
  Thanks again for the insight boys.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, where did you guys get your Muses and how much did you pay?


 
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132065&Tpk=asus%20essence%20one%20muses


----------



## cssarrow

Buying on ebay could help you dodge $82 tax.

If you're like me and use ebay bucks, you'll also gain back $18, which saves you about a good $100.

Just some ideas


----------



## turokrocks

Interesting finding:
   
  http://soundnews.ro/2013/02/13/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-review-english-version/
   



Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
   
*quellerFebruary 21, 2013

*   


  *I use for listening Jriver Mediacenter 18 that is an excellent piece of software here the link to the manual*

 *http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/436-jriver-media-center-17-detail/*

 *for an overview and solving the problem of low level headphone impedance setting the volume to “internal volume” is the higher quality 64-bit volume control used by the JRiver audio engine and set volume control to -18db -20db
 give a confortable volume with my ATH AD1000 40 ohm
 with volume cursor at eleven.
 Unfortunately Mediacenter isn’t free but when i used the trial version for two days I buy the full.
 I think this solution is possible with foobar2000 too without
 quality losses
 My Essence one is a base version full modified with Muses01*

 *By*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Interesting finding:
> 
> http://soundnews.ro/2013/02/13/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-review-english-version/
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting.  But Asus has to fix this mistake.  We all paid a premium price for an upgraded version...only to find out that they didn't upgrade everything they claimed they did.  I feel ripped off.  It makes me question whether they even put installed the muse 01 opamp. You lose trust.
   
  I know Asus will fix it.  But it's still a pretty big mistake and we only found out because some of you guys are nice enough to do all the inspections.  Thank you all that have brought the issue to the attention of everyone that has bought a E1 Muses edition.


----------



## Sk1n5

Don't know if this question has already been answered but: Where does Asus state that this jumper should exist? Is it in the manual or somewhere on the website that I'm missing?


----------



## Archimago

Guys, I decided to put up a blog page with my XONAR E1 measurements with full commentary on these frequency anomalies...  IMO the frequency roll off at 24/96 and 24/192 are a bit unusual as well even apart from the upsampling issue.
   
*Anyhow, I do hope ASUS has a look at this and come up with some fixes in the firmware!*
   
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html


----------



## cssarrow

Great job arch.


----------



## cssarrow

Darn, double posted on accident.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





archimago said:


> Guys, I decided to put up a blog page with my XONAR E1 measurements with full commentary on these frequency anomalies...  IMO the frequency roll off at 24/96 and 24/192 are a bit unusual as well even apart from the upsampling issue.
> 
> *Anyhow, I do hope ASUS has a look at this and come up with some fixes in the firmware!*
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html


 
  I have been enjoying the XLR the best, and your finding proves I am right about my finding.
  Makes you doubt many of what we are reading:
 *"it's interesting that most 'official' reviewers have not mentioned this rather obvious anomaly."*  Thank you for sharing, it was one of the best readings about the E1.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





archimago said:


> Guys, I decided to put up a blog page with my XONAR E1 measurements with full commentary on these frequency anomalies...  IMO the frequency roll off at 24/96 and 24/192 are a bit unusual as well even apart from the upsampling issue.
> 
> *Anyhow, I do hope ASUS has a look at this and come up with some fixes in the firmware!*
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html


 

 Hi, It would be great if you can plot phase measurements for normal and upsampled signals. Maybe there is a secret.
  Best regards


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Hi, It would be great if you can plot phase measurements for normal and upsampled signals. Maybe there is a secret.
> Best regards


 
  Hi DM. I see you posted some graphs of phase characteristics earlier in post 1625.
   
  Unfortunately it looks like I'm hampered by the (free) version of RightMark I'm using and have not been able to recover the phase data measured. What's your observation on this?
   
  Best regards...


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I have been enjoying the XLR the best, and your finding proves I am right about my finding.
> Makes you doubt many of what we are reading:
> *"it's interesting that most 'official' reviewers have not mentioned this rather obvious anomaly."*  Thank you for sharing, it was one of the best readings about the E1.


 

 Yup, I'm quite weary these days about the purely subjective reviews since rarely have I seen these reviewers taking a stand on real problems like the high frequency roll off...  They'd need to prove it, and that requires hooking up the gear to have a look objectively. Even worse are some of these "reviews" found on line which essentially reads like company PR material ;-(
   
  John Atkinson's objective measurements are also the main reason I still have my subscription to Stereophile.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





archimago said:


> Hi DM. I see you posted some graphs of phase characteristics earlier in post 1625.
> 
> Unfortunately it looks like I'm hampered by the (free) version of RightMark I'm using and have not been able to recover the phase data measured. What's your observation on this?
> 
> Best regards...


 

 I can loopback calibrate my Terratec EWX 24/96 soundcard and make pretty detail measurements in analog domain. Problem is when I output signal through E1 via USB and measure  analog output of E1 there is no calibrated reference, that is very important for phase measurement.
  My posted graphs show relative difference between normal and upsampled processing. It seems to me that upsampled phase response is smoother (close to zero). At 44.1 and 48 kHz sampling it is of no use because of early roll-off, but at  higher sampling rates it is preferrable. I would like to read listening observations, especially with top of the line headphones.


----------



## Kenion

Thank you guys for looking into this!
  As far as I know, Asus is currently working on a fix.
   
  I can't hear the diffrence between upsampling and non-upsampling on every track, however, I do notice a loss in the higher frequencies/sparkle on certain quality, high dynamic songs.
  I've got my E1 set to 96khz/24bit via optical to my soundcard. I notice a significant increase in volume (1/3~ volume only over optical) if I use the usb output directly to my pc. However, I'll also start to hear that buzzing noise in the background - probably because of the custom opamps I use.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





archimago said:


> Guys, I decided to put up a blog page with my XONAR E1 measurements with full commentary on these frequency anomalies...  IMO the frequency roll off at 24/96 and 24/192 are a bit unusual as well even apart from the upsampling issue.
> 
> *Anyhow, I do hope ASUS has a look at this and come up with some fixes in the firmware!*
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html


 
  I hope ASUSXONAR has a response to this.


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I can loopback calibrate my Terratec EWX 24/96 soundcard and make pretty detail measurements in analog domain. Problem is when I output signal through E1 via USB and measure  analog output of E1 there is no calibrated reference, that is very important for phase measurement.
> My posted graphs show relative difference between normal and upsampled processing. It seems to me that upsampled phase response is smoother (close to zero). At 44.1 and 48 kHz sampling it is of no use because of early roll-off, but at  higher sampling rates it is preferrable. I would like to read listening observations, especially with top of the line headphones.


 
  Thanks for the note DM. I see what you mean.  Will have to look into the phase response deeper next time I run it thru the tests...


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Thank you guys for looking into this!
> As far as I know, Asus is currently working on a fix.
> 
> I can't hear the diffrence between upsampling and non-upsampling on every track, however, I do notice a loss in the higher frequencies/sparkle on certain quality, high dynamic songs.
> I've got my E1 set to 96khz/24bit via optical to my soundcard. I notice a significant increase in volume (1/3~ volume only over optical) if I use the usb output directly to my pc. However, I'll also start to hear that buzzing noise in the background - probably because of the custom opamps I use.


 
  Kenion, has ASUS ever responded to this in the past?
   
  I agree Dynamics, I hope ASUSXONAR gets back to us (and headquarters!) on this...


----------



## frebs

Hi Tim
  I am new here and been looking back through the forum to see what you have done to upgrade your E1.
  I have the E1 Plus. In the op-amp manual it recommends to change slot 2 with Muses 02.
  I am thinking of trying this in slot 1 & 2 and maybe in the RCA buffer output stage.
  Has anyone used Muses 02's instead of 01's? I heard they are a better op-amp, Bi-polar not FET.
  What upgrades have you tried? & is that a custom op-amp in the buffer RCA output stage?
  I also seen this link for a custom op-amp.
  http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/newclassdopamps.html


----------



## cssarrow

frebs said:


> Hi Tim
> I am new here and been looking back through the forum to see what you have done to upgrade your E1.
> I have the E1 Plus. In the op-amp manual it recommends to change slot 2 with Muses 02.
> I am thinking of trying this in slot 1 & 2 and maybe in the RCA buffer output stage.
> ...




01 is superior for the Essence One.
I only have two MUSES02's.

Your link is down.

RCA & Headphone buffers are using two LME49710HA metal can op-amps on TO-99 to DIP8 adapters. Less bias/crosstalk/distortion than the stock LME49720. If you're too lazy doing all that, then just get a LME49720HA pre-soldered to a DIP socket. Should sound a little more "real" than the non metal version.

I've swapped most electrolytic capacitors from Nichicon KT 25V to Nichicon KA 50V.
Also swapped all film capacitors from Wima FKS 10% / FKP 5% to Wima FKP 2.5% Tolerance. 
Swapped one Sanyo polymer capacitor for a Nichicon FP (which Schiit seem to also use and like), Don't believe me? Check their Bifrost and Gungnir pcb photos.
Swapped (2) RCA capacitors with Elna Silmic II as i find them to be the best performing audio capacitor (especially after 100+ hours) and close to close to film.

Changed power supply mosfet's thermal paste with Prolimatech PK-3, and Added a custom heat sink on the right side which oh boy, is very warm whenever i touch it, so its working like a charm. New paste dissapates heat very sell, i have replacement psu capacitors, exact brand/model/capacitance/voltage for whenever they give out.

All wires directly connected to or on the main pcb has been changed out, since im a hardcore believer in wires.
Last but not least, my led change from stock blues to less bright reds.

If you ever try the muses02's let us know.

Tim


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Archimago* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Unfortunately it looks like I'm hampered by the (free) version of RightMark I'm using and have not been able to recover the phase data measured. What's your observation on this?


 
   
  I can create phase response and group delay graphs if you upload the impulse response(s) in WAV or FLAC format. Also anything that can be seen here if you post the loopback recording of the test signal.
   
  By the way, the higher noise on the RCA outputs could be the result of a ground loop if both the E-Mu 0404 and the Essence One were connected to the same computer. Of course, with a grounded external amplifier, that is still a real problem, and not just a measurement artifact, but without a ground loop, the unbalanced output would likely be better.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

but then why would a ground loop exist between the 2 interfaces if they are both connected to the same computer. When connected by usb or coax then they share the same ground with the computer. Also balanced xlr would not solve a ground loop problem it only eliminates noise that the cable picks up.


----------



## frebs

Cheers Tim
  Thanks for the info.
  I'm hoping to get a couple Muses 02 from a friend who says there is a definite noticeable difference then the 01's. 
  Will let you know on how they sound.
  I have had my E1 Plus for 2 weeks now. Not yet dived inside to play with the op-amp kit. Still letting it burn in.
  I am planning on upgrading the caps in the audio stage and also the volume control, not looked at which audio grade caps yet and it would be nice to have a remote control volume (possibly TAIV VC-03), might need a bigger box for the volume control upgrade, if I go for it. I will probably change the wires to silver too. Not a clue on what I will settle for op-amps. I was told the chinese like brighter faster music and that all Muses would be a bit to bright. but that's a matter for my ears to decide, looks like a mix and match job. 
  That's interesting to read about PSU cooling, I did notice mine a bit hot when I had it sat on top my PC at work.
  I did think about off board power supplies may be power supply per channel also valve output stage.
  But then how far do I go, am still sat back and enjoying the sound from a good DAC with the added pleasure of being able to use it late at night with headphones.


----------



## frebs

strange that link did not work for me too.
  Try Google Hificollective.co.uk at the top in the grey bit click components and then semiconductors. this will take you to Dexa Technologies, NewClassD Op-amps & regulators Burson Audio Op-amps you might have seen these already. I am a bit new to digital. I still love the old valve stuff. Moving my music to laptop has taken me down the road of external DAC's. Thankfully the E1 Plus was a good buy & a good solid build to upgrade & play with.


----------



## broke7224

I am not a fan of asus xonar one but I can hear a distinct sound between upsampled and un-upsampled on my BDP-105 DAC.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> but then why would a ground loop exist between the 2 interfaces if they are both connected to the same computer. When connected by usb or coax then they share the same ground with the computer. Also balanced xlr would not solve a ground loop problem it only eliminates noise that the cable picks up.


 
   
  Even though they are connected to the same computer, their ground is not connected to exactly the same point of the computer, and since there is a non-zero resistance between the two ground points, a non-zero voltage can fall on that from the ground currents of the CPU, GPU, and other devices. Balanced interconnects, when implemented properly, do eliminate ground loops by not using ground as the reference for audio signals - ground noise (relative to pin 1) appears as common mode noise on both pin 2 and pin 3, and it gets rejected by the differential input.
   
  To demonstrate this in practice, here are three RMAA measurements of the same sound card output, using three different configurations for recording:

   
  The first case is a simple loopback, using the ADC is on the same card. There is no ground loop problem, and the results are quite decent.
   
  In the second case, I used the Xonar Essence STX sound card installed in the same PC for the recording. Even though it has a better ADC than the Xonar D1, all the measurements are notably worse, and the noise in particular is dramatically worse, and is degraded to the level of typical onboard audio. The reason why this happens is that there is a ground loop between the two sound cards, even though their audio jacks are separated by the ground resistance of only about 5 centimeters of metal chassis.
   
  The third case is similar to the second one, but this time I inserted a differential amplifier to the loopback to reject the ground noise. This configuration gives the best results - now taking advantage of the better ADC - except for crosstalk, which is slightly degraded by the extra cables, connectors, and amplifier circuit. Using a differential input improved the noise by 22 dB.
   
  You may wonder why an RCA to XLR adapter does not necessarily work as well as the third test above, which essentially does the same. The potential problem is that the adapter may connect the ground wire to both pin 1 and pin 3 of the XLR connector so that there is a ground connection between the two devices, but that also prevents the differential input from being able to reject the ground noise.


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Even though they are connected to the same computer, their ground is not connected to exactly the same point of the computer, and since there is a non-zero resistance between the two ground points, a non-zero voltage can fall on that from the ground currents of the CPU, GPU, and other devices. Balanced interconnects, when implemented properly, do eliminate ground loops by not using ground as the reference for audio signals - ground noise (relative to pin 1) appears as common mode noise on both pin 2 and pin 3, and it gets rejected by the differential input.
> 
> To demonstrate this in practice, here are three RMAA measurements of the same sound card output, using three different configurations for recording:
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks stv014! Nice measurements and discussion.  I'll have a better look at the setup later this week and your detailed results when I have some time.
   
  The MAIN thing I remain concerned about is that frequency response issue with upsampling at 44kHz (and probably 48). I hope ASUS takes this seriously as it's a clear "defect" in an otherwise excellent product IMO!


----------



## hotsauce81

Hi All 
  I got my E1 today and i have it running with ASIO/bitperfect from Foobar. If i press the upsampling-button the led's for Hz indication goes dark. Is this normal?


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





hotsauce81 said:


> Hi All
> I got my E1 today and i have it running with ASIO/bitperfect from Foobar. If i press the upsampling-button the led's for Hz indication goes dark. Is this normal?


 
  Yes. It'll do that...


----------



## hotsauce81

Ah. OK.
  Thanks for the reply


----------



## Archimago

*ASUS:*
*If you guys are looking into this frequency response issue with upsampling, why not just implement a minimum phase filter with slow roll off from about 18kHz for the 44/48kHz sampling rates?* *This is of course a bit of what the big boys like Esoteric, Ayre and Meridian have been doing over the years.*
  
*That would be something many of us can conceivably use and potentially beneficial from the sound quality perspective (lets turn this defect into something potentially good!). It should be quite easy to implement with the SHARC DSP - open source software like SOX can easily do this already for years...*
   
*In fact, all my 16/44 music is minimal phase upsampled to 24/88 on the server side when I listen to the Transporter to get rid of that pre-ringing...*
   
*http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Even though they are connected to the same computer, their ground is not connected to exactly the same point of the computer, and since there is a non-zero resistance between the two ground points, a non-zero voltage can fall on that from the ground currents of the CPU, GPU, and other devices. Balanced interconnects, when implemented properly, do eliminate ground loops by not using ground as the reference for audio signals - ground noise (relative to pin 1) appears as common mode noise on both pin 2 and pin 3, and it gets rejected by the differential input.
> 
> To demonstrate this in practice, here are three RMAA measurements of the same sound card output, using three different configurations for recording:
> 
> ...


 
  In this case both interfaces should be connected to the same power outlet so they are grounded the same way or one of them should not be grounded at all. Most XLR connectors i have seen just re-invert the inverted signal and add it together with the non inverted signal. I am pretty sure that all of the cheaper AD interfaces work that way.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> In this case both interfaces should be connected to the same power outlet so they are grounded the same way or one of them should not be grounded at all.


 
   
  That is not relevant here, because the ground loop is created in the computer, and not through the power outlets. The above example used two internal sound cards in the same PC, but even if they were external (like in the case of Archimago's measurements), the effect would be the same.
   
  Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Most XLR connectors i have seen just re-invert the inverted signal and add it together with the non inverted signal.


 
   
  Which works for its intended purpose of rejecting common mode noise.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> That is not relevant here, because the ground loop is created in the computer, and not through the power outlets. The above example used two internal sound cards in the same PC, but even if they were external (like in the case of Archimago's measurements), the effect would be the same.
> 
> 
> Which works for its intended purpose of rejecting common mode noise.


 
  It is relevant since they are not exclusively grounded to the computer but also to the outlet, so if both interfaces are grounded to the same outlet there should be no ground loop in the signal.
   
  It works for rejecting noise in the cable but it would not work for ground loops since the ground is still the reference level for the signal.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> so if both interfaces are grounded to the same outlet there should be no ground loop in the signal.


 
   
  That can fix AC hum resulting from potential differences between the outlets, but not noise between different ground points of the same computer. You can frequently see people complaining on this forum about "computer noise" they get in the audio signal when using a grounded external amplifier, and it does not go away when both the computer and the amplifier are grounded to the same outlet.
   
  Quote:  





> It works for rejecting noise in the cable but it would not work for ground loops since the ground is still the reference level for the signal.


 
   
  The noise resulting from the ground potential difference is the same on both the inverting and the non-inverting input, therefore it can be canceled out. What do you think is responsible for the 22 dB drop in the noise floor when I added the differential amplifier in the example above ?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Yes but that is with analog signal, these interfaces would be connected via digital cable to the computer. But then i don´t really belive that the reason for the noise is really the grounding, since the resistance differences are so small that it would be really difficult to even measure it. It is far more likely that the noises come from ripples in the power supply caused by the pc components.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Yes but that is with analog signal, these interfaces would be connected via digital cable to the computer.


 
   
  And with an analog cable to each other. Since the digital cables are not connected to exactly the same point of the computer, there will be a small potential difference between the ground of the interfaces, resulting in common mode noise on the analog cable.
   
  Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> since the resistance differences are so small that it would be really difficult to even measure it. It is far more likely that the noises come from ripples in the power supply caused by the pc components.


 
   
  The resistances might be small, but they are not zero. Also, the ground currents from some devices in a desktop PC are huge, and the amount of noise that was measured is equivalent to only a small voltage (-92 dBA relative to 2 Vrms is only 50 uV A-weighted noise voltage).
   
  A differential amplifier does not eliminate power supply ripples. Nor does the power supply theory explain why the noise is there only if one sound card is recording the output of another, without using a differential amplifier.
  Also, if I connect the line output of both sound cards to two inputs of an external (not grounded) amplifier, and I turn up the volume on the amplifier, I can hear the computer noise. But unplugging the _other_ sound card (not the one that is selected as input) makes the noise go away completely.
  The only plausible explanation to all of the above is a ground potential difference between the sound cards.


----------



## cssarrow

We have knowledgeable people here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Keep up the good work guys!
   
  ASUS, please address some of these issues if you want to go further into the audio realm.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> And with an analog cable to each other. Since the digital cables are not connected to exactly the same point of the computer, there will be a small potential difference between the ground of the interfaces, resulting in common mode noise on the analog cable.
> 
> 
> The resistances might be small, but they are not zero. Also, the ground currents from some devices in a desktop PC are huge, and the amount of noise that was measured is equivalent to only a small voltage (-92 dBA relative to 2 Vrms is only 50 uV A-weighted noise voltage).
> ...


 
  Yes but then they are external interfaces and they are also grounded to the outlet so the real potential difference would be between pc and outlet.
   
  Also when considering voltage drop because of current the only current that matters is the one that actually flows from one device to the other. Every other current caused by other components just flows past and is not doing anything. So when picking for example two usb ports next to each other they share the some ground wire and you won´t get huge currents flowing between the ground pins of two usb ports.
   
  Also you have to consider that if you use internal sound cards there can be noise problems caused by the pic-e ports, two devices can interfere with each other because of the shared channels on pci-e causing higher noise and jitter. This is a not uncommon problem in studio pc-s.


----------



## turokrocks

I have another question for Asus, as I had somebody ask me about the following:
  At the download section of the Asus one normal version, their is a windows 8 driver, while at the download section for muses version (& the plus version), there is non to download!
  I know I can get it from the E1 normal version and install the driver on Windows 8 for the Muses edition, or am I wrong?
   
  Proof:


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Yes but then they are external interfaces and they are also grounded to the outlet so the real potential difference would be between pc and outlet.


 
   
  The E-Mu 0404 is not grounded to the outlet, as far as I know, and even if it was, it would not completely eliminate the problem, and would potentially create others.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Whit3Rav3n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also when considering voltage drop because of current the only current that matters is the one that actually flows from one device to the other. Every other current caused by other components just flows past and is not doing anything. So when picking for example two usb ports next to each other they share the some ground wire and you won´t get huge currents flowing between the ground pins of two usb ports.


 
   
  The grounding in a desktop PC is not designed with audio applications in mind, and multiple ground paths are possible between the PSU, the motherboard, the case (to which almost everything is grounded in some way), and the various components. As I already explained earlier, the noise voltages are small, so it is not necessary for huge currents to flow between the ports, but a fraction of them will take that path, and even that is enough for the <0.1 mV noise measured.
   
  Quote:  





> Also you have to consider that if you use internal sound cards there can be noise problems caused by the pic-e ports, two devices can interfere with each other because of the shared channels on pci-e causing higher noise and jitter.


 
   
  These again would not explain why the differential amplifier eliminates the noise.
   
  Anyway, it looks like this discussion is a waste of time (not to mention getting really off-topic in this thread), as I know already well enough that computers have grounding issues, and you just keep arguing, and arguing, and arguing endlessly, no matter what, and ignore any evidence shown. So, I consider this closed and will not post further replies, or bother reading what you write. You can discuss it with others who have more time at Sound Science if you want.


----------



## 2NE1

Has any of you tried to message ASUSXONAR in order to obtain a reply?


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Should be fixed shortly. Yes use the E-One driver, it's exactly the same. 
  Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I have another question for Asus, as I had somebody ask me about the following:
> At the download section of the Asus one normal version, their is a windows 8 driver, while at the download section for muses version (& the plus version), there is non to download!
> I know I can get it from the E1 normal version and install the driver on Windows 8 for the Muses edition, or am I wrong?
> 
> Proof:


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> We have knowledgeable people here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  We have been looking into this. During development we were given a choice of four different filter options (not all at the same time obviously). The current filter was chosen and it favors high sampling rates (88KHz upwards), the side effect being the sharp cut-off for lower sampling rates.
   
  We're working with the developer and discussing a new filter that is less aggressive at lower sampling rates. There are side effects to every choice, but we'll try and do something that is more universal.


----------



## turokrocks

Thank you Asus.
   
  Before Hi Gain:
   

   
   
  After Low gain :
   

   
  One for the gang


----------



## Kenion

Ow, have you received the proper muses now?


----------



## turokrocks

Bad news guys, the Headphone volume knob of the new unit is making a scratch sound!!!!  something is in friction/contact....What is going on...?
  The old unit's volume knob is smooth but got his heavy feeling while turning, but the one in the new unit is much "Loosy"...


----------



## hotsauce81

I have a problem with my E1. The headphone out is just to loud for my q710's. On step one there is barely sound in the right channel, step two is not loud enough and step three is sometimes to loud. What is your recommendation?


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote:Originally Posted by *turokrocks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


  Bad news guys, the Headphone volume knob of the new unit is making a scratch sound!!!!  something is in friction/contact....What is going on...?
  The old unit's volume knob is smooth but got his heavy feeling while turning, but the one in the new unit is much "Loosy"...
   
   
   
  That would be the sound of broken.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *turokrocks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Bad news guys, the Headphone volume knob of the new unit is making a scratch sound!!!!  something is in friction/contact....What is going on...?
> ...


 
  Broken indeed, broken luck,  & hope.
   
  Guys I really love my Asus, the sound is like nothing!!  but what will I do next? I am totally lost.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Broken indeed, broken luck,  & hope.
> 
> Guys I really love my Asus, the sound is like nothing!!  but what will I do next? I am totally lost.


 
  Does the volume control work?  If it works (vol up and down) the scratching sound may be the volume knob rubbing on the front panel, at least it sounds like that on your video.  Pull the knob out a bit until you don't hear the scratching.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> Does the volume control work?  If it works (vol up and down) the scratching sound may be the volume knob rubbing on the front panel, at least it sounds like that on your video.  Pull the knob out a bit until you don't hear the scratching.


 
  Thank you, but this is a $1000 DAC/AMP, and I do not accept such bad quality, and why should I fix something that should be in working condition.
   
  The first one I had, felt much better in comparison (the Knobs on the old model have more control).
   
  I did not even bother to put my IEM , as I am really frustrated, so I do not know if the volume even works!


----------



## leeperry

yes, pull it a tiny bit out and you'll be in business...it might have gotten pushed in during shipping for all we know


----------



## cssarrow

What leeperry said is what i would have also tried first.
   
  Give it a good yank towards yourself.

   
  either that or the washer/bolt is screwed on wrong.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> yes, pull it a tiny bit out and you'll be in business...it might have gotten pushed in during shipping for all we know


 
  I tried all this, but after looking at the volume knob , I find it to be off center to the right, where it is scratching:
   

  I took a macro shot and saw evidence of the scratch:


----------



## cssarrow

So when you turn the volume knob, that's the only area that seems to make contact?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> So when you turn the volume knob, that's the only area that seems to make contact?


 
  Yes as  per this


----------



## cssarrow

Are you hearing the sound from the outside (next to the knob) or the inside?
  If it's the inside, you're pretty much F@%K3d.
   
  The outside would be an easier fix, as you just take out the knob and sand it down a little with some 400-800 grit, then 2000 to not have sharp lines.

 I doubt you'll want to fix it, but it's a lot better than getting RMA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*Tim*


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Are you hearing the sound from the outside (next to the knob) or the inside?
> If it's the inside, you're pretty much F@%K3d.
> 
> The outside would be an easier fix, as you just take out the knob and sand it down a little with some 400-800 grit, then 2000 to not have sharp lines.
> ...


 
  Definitely from the outside of the knob.


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> We have been looking into this. During development we were given a choice of four different filter options (not all at the same time obviously). The current filter was chosen and it favors high sampling rates (88KHz upwards), the side effect being the sharp cut-off for lower sampling rates.
> 
> We're working with the developer and discussing a new filter that is less aggressive at lower sampling rates. There are side effects to every choice, but we'll try and do something that is more universal.


 

 Thanks for the response ASUSXONAR.
   
*IMO, upsampling is by nature more important in the lower sampling rates. If anything, I think the algorithm should bias towards better sound with the 44/48 rates and generally try to leave the hi-res stuff alone. Furthermore, the fact that most digital music exist at 44kHz makes it imperative that these lower sampling rates should be optimized.*
   
  As I noted on my blog post, it looks like there's some really good engineering in the Essence One. ASUS has clearly been targeting the enthusiast market strongly with the MUSES and PLUS editions, so this oversampling result is disappointing. The hardware's there, so it would be great to see this blemish be repaired.
   
  Hope to hear of changes soon!


----------



## ASUSXONAR

I take it you are the same Archimago from DIYAUDIO looking for C-Media firmware for your S/PDIF>USB conv? Small world


----------



## daws0n

ASUSXONAR,
   
  Can you tell us if a new filter option can be introduced via a firmware patch or is it likely to require an all new DSP chip at the manufacturing stage to overcome the up sampling roll off issue?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I know there is a bit of space restrictions but has anybody here attempted trying discrete opamps with the E1?


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Firmware update.
   
  Quote: 





daws0n said:


> ASUSXONAR,
> 
> Can you tell us if a new filter option can be introduced via a firmware patch or is it likely to require an all new DSP chip at the manufacturing stage to overcome the up sampling roll off issue?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Firmware update.


 
  Good for those with earlier units.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Good for those with earlier units.


 
   
  Any unit - time is irrelevant on this one as the chipset used is the same throughout the range.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Any unit - time is irrelevant on this one as the chipset used is the same throughout the range.


 
  Cool.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I know there is a bit of space restrictions but has anybody here attempted trying discrete opamps with the E1?


 
  Was planing on getting three discrete 49720 for the buffer stages, but unsure if it would sound any different than two 49710HA's so i never waved the go flag.
   
  Have you ever tried one?
  Does it make that large of a difference?
   
*Tim*


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Was planing on getting three discrete 49720 for the buffer stages, but unsure if it would sound any different than two 49710HA's so i never waved the go flag.
> 
> Have you ever tried one?
> Does it make that large of a difference?
> ...


 
   
  When I say discete, I mean opamps built from discrete components. Such as those from Audio-GD, Burson, ClassD..etc


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





robscix said:


> When I say discete, I mean opamps built from discrete components. Such as those from Audio-GD, Burson, ClassD..etc


 
  Yes, i know.
  And there are some discrete 49720's.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Yes, i know.
> And there are some discrete 49720's.


 
  I see, I thought my post was abit unclear.
  As for you other question,typically, discretes have a warmer more "analog" type sound in comparison to some IC opamps.
  I am planning on doing some experiements soon when I have what I need.
   
  Edit, We cleared up some misinformation, there are no discrete LME49720 models out there.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I see, I thought my post was abit unclear.
> As for you other question,typically, discretes have a warmer more "analog" type sound in comparison to some IC opamps.
> I am planning on doing some experiements soon when I have what I need.


 
  Awesome!
   
  I was looking for a warmer sound, as these 49720 standard op-amps are a little lacky in that area.
  Hopefully the analog sound becomes most favorable.
   
  All i need now, is to find a decent place to get them on the cheap.
   
*Tim*


----------



## ROBSCIX

The Audio-GD models, would be a good place to start.  I will see if I can get my hands on an E1 and do some testing with some discretes over the weekend.  I will let you know what I find when I am done.
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> I take it you are the same Archimago from DIYAUDIO looking for C-Media firmware for your S/PDIF>USB conv? Small world


 
  Yup, that's me...
   
  But what I'm looking for there is the firmware to my CM6631*A* USB-to-SPDIF box due to Mac compatibility issue... No relation to the E1 (in fact the E1 works great with my Mac).


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Anyway i just tried out the 49710 instead of the 49720 in lpf in combination with the ad797. Strangely it has less details, less soundstage and less smooth sound than the 49720ha so far.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Anyway i just tried out the 49710 instead of the 49720 in lpf in combination with the ad797. Strangely it has less details, less soundstage and less smooth sound than the 49720ha so far.


 
  Are you sure?
   
  I just took out my 10HA's and put them in I/V along with some AD797's in LFP, and i hear the opposite of what you hear, except for the smooth part. AD797 has a little more smoothness to them.
   
  Took out the AD797's then added MUSES01's and clearly, the muses sounds better.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I don´t understand it either but they do sund very different. The 49720ha has also a special bright character, the 49710 does not have that. Maybe they need a little burn in. The seller mixed up my order for adapters, instead of 15x single soic to dual dip8 and 7x single to99 to dual dip 8 i recieved 9x single soic to dual dip8 and 18x single to99 to dual dip 8. Hopefully he well send me the missing adapters.


----------



## ROBSCIX

THe LME49710 is just a mono version of the 720, IMO, they are an improvment astypically running a dual mono amp in favor of a single dual offers improvements.
  Perhaps there is something else at work here and/or everybody has their own tastes.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





robscix said:


> THe LME49710 is just a mono version of the 720, IMO, they are an improvment astypically running a dual mono amp in favor of a single dual offers improvements.
> Perhaps there is something else at work here and/or everybody has their own tastes.


 
  Where you able to get your hands on any of the E1 flavors?
   
  I would like to read your comment/reviews.
   
  P.S: I am waiting for Amazon to stock on the ZXR.


----------



## citraian

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Where you able to get your hands on any of the E1 flavors?
> 
> I would like to read your comment/reviews.
> 
> P.S: I am waiting for Amazon to stock on the ZXR.


 
  Yeap, he was one of the first Essence one reviewers


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





robscix said:


> THe LME49710 is just a mono version of the 720, IMO, they are an improvment astypically running a dual mono amp in favor of a single dual offers improvements.
> Perhaps there is something else at work here and/or everybody has their own tastes.


 
  Yes this is why i am surprised that the difference is rather big. After some further listening i don´t think that the 49710 is worse, the biggest difference is that the 49720ha has analog style smooth highs (actually a bit too bright) while the 49710 is rather fast and more direct sounding and less bright. 
   
  Also seems like that the ad797br is not really stable in i/v with any combination, tried it in combination with 49720, 49710, opa827, opa 2132, opa 2107 in the lpf and it always made some oscillation noises. As bypassing caps i tried 100uF electrolytic and 220nF film capacitors but both didn´t make it entirely stable.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Where you able to get your hands on any of the E1 flavors?
> 
> I would like to read your comment/reviews.
> 
> P.S: I am waiting for Amazon to stock on the ZXR.


 
  I already did a full review of the original E1 and I am working on possibly reviewing the E1 muse Edition as I have been getting emails, PM request on that product.
  If you are interested inreading it, here is the full review here:-> Link
  Enjoy


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Yes this is why i am surprised that the difference is rather big. After some further listening i don´t think that the 49710 is worse, the biggest difference is that the 49720ha has analog style smooth highs (actually a bit too bright) while the 49710 is rather fast and more direct sounding and less bright.
> 
> Also seems like that the ad797br is not really stable in i/v with any combination, tried it in combination with 49720, 49710, opa827, opa 2132, opa 2107 in the lpf and it always made some oscillation noises. As bypassing caps i tried 100uF electrolytic and 220nF film capacitors but both didn´t make it entirely stable.


 
  Just might be a case of bad synergy with your other gear (headphones) and your personal tastes for what you would like to hear.  I have always liked the 49720/4562, but I prefer the dual LME49710HA model as the top of that family tree.
   
  Go with what sounds best for your ears and gear.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I already did a full review of the original E1 and I am working on possibly reviewing the E1 muse Edition as I have been getting emails, PM request on that product.
> If you are interested inreading it, here is the full review here:-> Link
> Enjoy


 
  Thank you.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Will be waiting for the Muses impressions/review.
   
  P.S: OMG...I got guru3d on my favorite bar and enjoyed reading your reviews for years (since the 3dfx days), and had no idea  it was you!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I got my first LCD (Hercules) , just after reading your review....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I tried the 49990 in the i/v, seems like it has similar qualities as the ad797 but a different sound signature. The ad797 has a more warm and analog style sound, the 49990 is rather neutral without a specific signature. It also gets pretty hot but it doesn´t makes these oscillation noises as the ad797. Right now i am using it with the opa827 in lpf and 49710 in buffer. I also tired it with the ad797 in the lpf, it gives it the analog style character of the 797 but the 797 is unstable in the lpf and it makes noises. I am going to try some more combinations later.


----------



## upside

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you, but this is a $1000 DAC/AMP, and I do not accept such bad quality, and why should I fix something that should be in working condition.
> 
> The first one I had, felt much better in comparison (the Knobs on the old model have more control).
> 
> I did not even bother to put my IEM , as I am really frustrated, so I do not know if the volume even works!


 
   
  Sorry to hear about your trouble with the replacement E1 Muses turokrocks. I just received my replacement from Asus HQ and it does indeed have the gain selector jumpers as your pictures showed. I've just plugged it in and let it run for a day and a bit but already I notice a subtle difference between my original Muses without the jumpers. The new version seems a bit more closed in and it seems to favour the mid-bass a bit more. Not quite as open and airy sounding as the original Muses. I checked both boards and other than the jumpers are identical in every other way. Is it possible for the addition of the jumpers to change the sonic signature in this way? Also, the headphone volume control needs to run about 10 percent higher to get equivalent output for my HD 650s compared to the original non-jumpered Muses even with the gain selector jumpers in the high output position.
   
  Just to be clear, these sonic changes are subtle but noticable. Not night and day different but there.   
   
  I'll let the E1 Muses run for a week or so before running some head to head comparisons with the non-jumper version.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

The jumper should not make a difference, especially not in the highes gain setting where it should have no additional resistance in the signal. The tonal differences can be the result of tolerances in the electrical components.


----------



## upside

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> The jumper should not make a difference, especially not in the highes gain setting where it should have no additional resistance in the signal. The tonal differences can be the result of tolerances in the electrical components.


 
   
  Thanks Whit3Rav3n.
   
  I did notice on the original E1 Muses that there are 2 circuit board traces that ran diagonally where the new gain selector is positioned. I wonder if the final gain adjustable board does have subtle routing changes?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





upside said:


> Sorry to hear about your trouble with the replacement E1 Muses turokrocks. I just received my replacement from Asus HQ and it does indeed have the gain selector jumpers as your pictures showed. I've just plugged it in and let it run for a day and a bit but already I notice a subtle difference between my original Muses without the jumpers. The new version seems a bit more closed in and it seems to favour the mid-bass a bit more. Not quite as open and airy sounding as the original Muses. I checked both boards and other than the jumpers are identical in every other way. Is it possible for the addition of the jumpers to change the sonic signature in this way? Also, the headphone volume control needs to run about 10 percent higher to get equivalent output for my HD 650s compared to the original non-jumpered Muses even with the gain selector jumpers in the high output position.
> 
> Just to be clear, these sonic changes are subtle but noticable. Not night and day different but there.
> 
> I'll let the E1 Muses run for a week or so before running some head to head comparisons with the non-jumper version.


 
  Thank you but Asus are back to rescue.
  Indeed, I did notice a difference, in volume (even when still @ high gain) and in SQ (more bass..) Its not that big of a difference, but its there.
  Strange! Placebo?


----------



## upside

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you but Asus are back to rescue.
> Indeed, I did notice a difference, in volume (even when still @ high gain) and in SQ (more bass..) Its not that big of a difference, but its there.
> Strange! Placebo?


 
   
  I don't think it's a placebo effect. I noticed it right away. It took no more than 30 seconds to swap my original Muses for the replacement and I heard the difference immediately. The original took a few hours of playback to remove a very slight harshness in the high frequencies. It maintained a very open character and a slight  reticence in the bass at all times. The replacement has never displayed the slight harshness in the upper frequencies and definitely has a warmer, rounder sound. I now have about 24 hours of continuous playback and the overall character has not changed so far. How many hours would you say you have on your replacement turokrocks?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





upside said:


> I don't think it's a placebo effect. I noticed it right away. It took no more than 30 seconds to swap my original Muses for the replacement and I heard the difference immediately. The original took a few hours of playback to remove a very slight harshness in the high frequencies. It maintained a very open character and a slight  reticence in the bass at all times. The replacement has never displayed the slight harshness in the upper frequencies and definitely has a warmer, rounder sound. I now have about 24 hours of continuous playback and the overall character has not changed so far. How many hours would you say you have on your replacement turokrocks?


 
  Around 60 hours, but now its in the box waiting to return.


----------



## upside

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Around 60 hours, but now its in the box waiting to return.


 
   
  Thank you turokrocks.
   
  Please let us know if the replacement for the replacement (I assume you are getting another replacement) has the same sound signature.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, I have been getting many,many emails, PM's about that reviewing that product.
   
  To note, I review there, but I only do audio reviews.  I have never done a LCD review.
  There are a few reviewser that handle different components.
  Glad you liked my reviews, if you were reading mine.


----------



## Gojira729

Having followed this thread for a while i'm happy to say that i enjoy my HD800's with the Essence One. After reading through here and gathering thoughts i decided to swap out the opamps to change the sound a little. My choices thus far have been replacement NE5532's (my first go with a tool resulted in bent pins), a few LME49720NA's (the headphone buffers already have 2 of these present), and a bunch of OPA2132P's. Oddly enough my standard Essence One did not ship with the north american power cord, and while the box lists NE5532 in the opamp sockets i had only 6 present (4 in I/V and 2 in the LPF) the remaining 3 were LM4562 (i read these are equal to the LME49720NA's). I've used 2132's in I/V and 49720's in the LPF and later swapped the latter for additional 2132's. I find the sound to my liking with the 6 OPA2132's and 2 LME49720's in the Headphones stage. Thanks to those who gave input regarding opamp combos/impressions as well as the recommendation for the Wiha chip lifter, that purchase was a nice relief to use (i opted for the ESD safe model). I would also like to thank those who helped with the firmware updates also, reading the posts was really helpful in that regard, updating it was easy and i have no issues with my unit.
       My impression of the Essence One paired with the HD800 and subsequent switch of opamps leaves me pleased with the soundstage and bass presentation, a cable change from stock to a Black Dragon cable also helped on the low end in my opinion. I've not used the balanced output yet and rotate inputs from USB to Toslink (the former for Jriver/ASIO output and the latter for other uses). The only issue i find with the unit is in regard to the volume control, while it powers the 800's nicely the difference between too quiet and too loud is a matter of about 9 o'clock and 11 o'clock on the dial. Jriver's internal volume control is handy for that issue and my thanks to Turokrocks for that.
  Again... i enjoy the amp/headphones and thank all of those who helped make my experience better.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yeah, I have been getting many,many emails, PM's about that reviewing that product.
> 
> To note, I review there, but I only do audio reviews.  I have never done a LCD review.
> There are a few reviewser that handle different components.
> Glad you liked my reviews, if you were reading mine.


 
  Yeah, I am sure I read your reviews (sound cards?)
   
  Thank you for all and will be waiting for the update/d review.


----------



## turokrocks

Got the ifi iusb for the Asus


----------



## gattari

@ Turocroks write:
Got the ifi iusb for the Asus

Your impression about iusb?
Ciao


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gattari said:


> @ Turocroks write:
> Got the ifi iusb for the Asus
> 
> Your impression about iusb?
> Ciao


 
  Very early to write...sorry.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Very early to write...sorry.


 
  Any sonic improvements?


----------



## cssarrow

God Bless.
   
  --
   
  I decided to take some pictures of my Essence One.
   
*Sunset Lighting:*
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?32fnw466ortvi7v
   
*Top:*
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?9d8dait3426cz2m
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?u6exotvaou2tv2a
  .http://www.mediafire.com/view/?3fhyd04m3wq775x
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?0ek68bcqr12fb1u
   
*Bottom:*
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?i9g9daw1e15sfw7
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?og17cys24ho4733
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?xwxt6x9jsp0lbu2
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?vpiikpfrzn5bwux
  http://www.mediafire.com/view/?p91rrxmjnkh3k0z


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Anyone else notice the slight skipping at the beginning of songs when using ASIO when using foobar? Anyway to Fix it?


----------



## broke7224

How's the ifi with your muses 1?  Any improvement at all?  For $200 is not a bad price but I sense that it might be snake oil so wanted to check in with you.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





broke7224 said:


> How's the ifi with your muses 1?  Any improvement at all?  For $200 is not a bad price but I sense that it might be snake oil so wanted to check in with you.


 
  My spider senses are also tingling.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





broke7224 said:


> How's the ifi with your muses 1?  Any improvement at all?  For is not a bad price but I sense that it might be snake oil so wanted to check in with you.


 
   
  In my own opinion, it should be used mainly with a USB powered amp &/or dac (Meridian,Dragon fly, Dacport....)
  What I mean (take it with a grain of salt, as I am still in a very early stages of testing) that I did notice a change with my DACPORT LX /Odac(...please check the ifi appreciation thread for later updates as I do not want to derail the thread), and almost no change on the Asus (still getting used to my replaced Asus, so this is still an early conclusion).
   
  Asus has done a great work with the one series, and even with high quality vs law quality USB cables , there was no difference in sound (margin of difference is PLACEBO).


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Anyone else notice the slight skipping at the beginning of songs when using ASIO when using foobar? Anyway to Fix it?


 
  anyone?


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> anyone?


 
  Try changing the buffer size.


----------



## Queller

Quote: 





broke7224 said:


> How's the ifi with your muses 1?  Any improvement at all?  For $200 is not a bad price but I sense that it might be snake oil so wanted to check in with you.


 

 Ultrafine snake oil I think
   
  another interface on the signal road other pieces of uncertain cables mmmmmh!


----------



## qqexpress

Hey guys, is anyone noticing some strange channel imbalances between left and right? Positioning is really strange. I've been listening to 3D soundscapes and trying to differentiate right from left, but my E1 doesn't seem to comprehend when something is to the right of it.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





qqexpress said:


> Hey guys, is anyone noticing some strange channel imbalances between left and right? Positioning is really strange. I've been listening to 3D soundscapes and trying to differentiate right from left, but my E1 doesn't seem to comprehend when something is to the right of it.


 
  The One has problems with channel imbalance when you set the volume pot very low but it should disappear after the first 1/6 turn. Maybe there is a problem with your volume pot and it has channel imbalance everywhere. You could measure it by plugging a cable from your headhpone out in the line in of your onboard sound card and measure for example frequency response with rmaa. If you have a channel imbalance it would show that one channel is always quieter.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Try changing the buffer size.


 
   
  Tried adjusting it, didn't make any difference.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Have not seen anyone else reporting this in here, so I'm at a loss for what to suggest. If it were a latency issue, you usually get dropouts all throughout playback. Not sure Foobar has options to delay playback somewhat. Could be down to the system as well, maybe storage is the bottleneck.


----------



## urbanhusky

The drivers are quite bad (seems the same with every ASUS soundcard). The dropouts from ASIO are most likely a driver issue.
  The channel imbalance and sometimes complete drop-out of the entire midrange in a song (until I power cycle the unit) are what caused me to return the unit and get something completely different instead. Now I'm not looking back.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





urbanhusky said:


> The drivers are quite bad (seems the same with every ASUS soundcard). The dropouts from ASIO are most likely a driver issue.
> The channel imbalance and sometimes complete drop-out of the entire midrange in a song (until I power cycle the unit) are what caused me to return the unit and get something completely different instead. Now I'm not looking back.


 

 Never had such a problem with E1 neither from Foobar nor JRiver MC18 that I'm using now.


----------



## urbanhusky

Who knows, maybe the drivers are better now - I got mine back when people used to brick it with the firmware update that they later pulled. Still, I tested 3 units and I absolutely loathe the Xonar Essence One as a result of my experience with it.


----------



## cssarrow

I also use both foobar and J.River 18 and found no ASIO issues.

Are you by any chance running Windows 8?
Even though there's drivers for them, there might still be an issue.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





urbanhusky said:


> The drivers are quite bad (seems the same with every ASUS soundcard). The dropouts from ASIO are most likely a driver issue.
> The channel imbalance and sometimes complete drop-out of the entire midrange in a song (until I power cycle the unit) are what caused me to return the unit and get something completely different instead. Now I'm not looking back.


 
  I even use cplay which is one of the most "picky" players but best sounding, and it worked smooth , all what I have to do is to change the Asio setting in the Asio control panel to 32.
   
  I have my Asus Muses running on 3 different PCs , XP (cplay), windows 7 (foobar), Windows 8 (Jriver), and did not have a single error or problem.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





urbanhusky said:


> The drivers are quite bad (seems the same with every ASUS soundcard). The dropouts from ASIO are most likely a driver issue.
> The channel imbalance and sometimes complete drop-out of the entire midrange in a song (until I power cycle the unit) are what caused me to return the unit and get something completely different instead. Now I'm not looking back.


 
  I never had any issues with the E1 or other ASUS products I have tested (which is many).  Every system is different, so perhaps it is something else in your rig causing issues with the audio subsystem?


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I also use both foobar and J.River 18 and found no ASIO issues.
> 
> Are you by any chance running Windows 8?
> Even though there's drivers for them, there might still be an issue.


 
   
   
  I've been using Win 8 for a little while now with no ASIO issues.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





midnightfox said:


> I've been using Win 8 for a little while now with no ASIO issues.


 
  Yeah, I have Win 8 on another PC and experience no issues as well.
   
  I believe it depends from PC to PC as some people sometimes install wrong drivers that corrupts required files, or even, have lack of drivers.


----------



## Gandah

Try a another USB 2.0 port. I had this problem for along time, I'm not sure if it was the USB or just burn-in time that fixed it, It works fine now


----------



## mwindham08

Anyone have any impressions of the Schiit Mjolnir with the Essence One? Do they have good synergy together?


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

I noticed the skipping doesn't occur when I stop the song (by hitting the square) and then switching to a different song. If I don't stop the song before switching to another the skipping occurs, only happens on ASIO though. Anyone else experience the same?
   
  Also,  am I all up to date on firmware and drivers?
   
  Essence One Driver Version 7.0.11.5
  Essence One F/W Version 1.27
  Audio Chip F/W Version 0111


----------



## Archimago

Driver is up to 8.0.11.6 I believe.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

That is the windows 8 driver not the windows 7 one I believe.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Might be worth writing up your system config and a parts list. Doesn't seem this is a common problem. What configuration changes if any have you made to Foobar? Is this install of Windows 7 fresh, or do you have lots of background services and apps running?
   
  -Raja


----------



## TCM

Where can I find an instruction how to update the firmware. I can't seem to find it


----------



## mwindham08

I think the first download is the firmware updater tool. When you download the files there is a PDF that walks you through what to do.


----------



## turokrocks

The Science of Sample Rates (When Higher Is Better — And When It Isn’t)   
  Please find time to read it.


----------



## TCM

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I think the first download is the firmware updater tool. When you download the files there is a PDF that walks you through what to do.


 
   


 Thanks


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Might be worth writing up your system config and a parts list. Doesn't seem this is a common problem. What configuration changes if any have you made to Foobar? Is this install of Windows 7 fresh, or do you have lots of background services and apps running?
> 
> -Raja


 
   
  i7 3770k
  Asus Sabertooth Z77
  Asus GTX 680 Direct CUII
  8GB GSkill DDR3 2133
  Corsair AX750i
  Samsung 840 Pro 256gb SSD
  2TB WD Green
   
  Windows installation done fresh. Haven't made any changes to foobar besides installing the ASIO support add-on.


----------



## cssarrow

Do you by any chance have your ram set at the wrong timing?
  Make sure XMP Profile is correct under BIOS.
   
  Try changing it from 1T/1N to 2T/2N to see if the problem goes away.
  Other than that, i don't see what could be wrong.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> The Science of Sample Rates (When Higher Is Better — And When It Isn’t)


 
   
  And just for fun another link that completely disagrees


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Do you by any chance have your ram set at the wrong timing?
> Make sure XMP Profile is correct under BIOS.
> 
> Try changing it from 1T/1N to 2T/2N to see if the problem goes away.
> Other than that, i don't see what could be wrong.


 
   
  I am running XMP. 
   
  Is seems like a really weird issue, as mentioned, it only happens when in ASIO mode and only when I don't manually stop the song to switch to another. If the song finishes and the goes to the next in the playlist, it's fine. It only happens when I want to listen to something else and decide to switch in the middle of a song without manually stopping it first.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Probably something to do with how Foobar buffers a file. Might want to talk to the Foobar guys about this. It's not something for us I think. The ASIO buffer latency will be lower than the default output driver. And that is where I think this comes in. On top of that, seems specific to you more than the other guys here. Maybe the Foobar team can make some sugggestions on Foobar settings for you as well.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> And just for fun another link that completely disagrees


 
  I would not agree with this:
   
  "Complex signals contain multiple frequencies which interact to produce intermodulation in all systems in which they travel. Our ear, together with our skull bones, is one of these systems. High frequencies intermodulate to the lower frequency range (for example, a 21kHz and a 22kHz tones can modulate down to 1kHz, well into our audible range). If we record and/or play a recording through a system with 20kHz limit, we miss those tones which should intermodulate into our ear and head, losing some of the original information content (that 1kHz tone which is part of the original signal, even if is produced into our body)."
   
  Those two tones are intermodulated by transmission media - the air. If we filter out any high frequency, 1 kHz tone will remain.
  Also, the phase coherence is mainly affected by post filtering and not ADC principle.
  True is that it is much more cheaper to produce good ADC conversion with higher bit depth and bitrate. And the "progress" must go on.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Probably something to do with how Foobar buffers a file. Might want to talk to the Foobar guys about this. It's not something for us I think. The ASIO buffer latency will be lower than the default output driver. And that is where I think this comes in. On top of that, seems specific to you more than the other guys here. Maybe the Foobar team can make some sugggestions on Foobar settings for you as well.


 
   
  Thanks, will do. I appreciate the support and suggestions from all who have helped.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Anyone else notice the slight skipping at the beginning of songs when using ASIO when using foobar? Anyway to Fix it?


 

 I also use Foobar and don't have skipping but when I try to skip to the next file before it completes Foobar hangs up and after 15-20seconds I get a dialog box with and error message - "unrecoverable playback error: timeout".   If I use the "Stop" button on Foobar before going to the next file I will still give the error about 20% of the time. Buffer length is set to 1000ms and file buffer size is 9999999999999.   OICWUTUDIDTHAR what are your settings?   I'd be happy if I can get it to just skip at the beginning instead of stop, timeout,  have to close the dialog box and hit start again.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I would not agree with this


 
   
  I pretty much disagree with everything the guy says.....it's pseudo-science to the extreme and would be wonderful to discuss in the Science Forum. He sells grossly overpriced DAC's running off $1 SMPS wallwarts and his only selling point is 32/384 USB support, so he goes all the way to push it.
   
  Let's not mention his I²S DAC that uses a cheapo opamp as DAC LPF and makes I²S travel through a long external cable........I²S? Sure, but in a far less than ideal scenario huh.
   
  Or his killer masterclock that requires a very expensive PSU and has a manual knob for 44.1/48kHz multiples.......forget to switch it accordingly and fear the consequences, hah! Add up the price of his DAC, its battery-powered PSU(that required offline reloading cycles BTW), the masterclock, its own PSU and you're in +$4K land 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There is no question that bang/bucks goes up through the roof on the ONE, and prolly even more so on the Muse edition for the most OCD'ed audiophiles amongst us to whom enough is never enough.....Asus don't require a +500% markup to make a living and the customer directly benefits from both their top of the range R&D and low markups(5/10% in the computer world I think).
   
  All this said, some real-world feedback on the headamp gain jumper would be sweet! But my friend is pretty dead sold on ordering the Muse anyway as he's not quite willing to toss $2K on a boutique DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Whenever he will have made up his mind, I'll get to toy around with it and will happily report back in this thread


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> All this said, some real world feedback on the headamp gain jumper would be sweet! But my friend is pretty dead sold on ordering the Muse anyway as he's not quite willing to toss $2K on a boutique DAC anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You are welcome to share the report when possible.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> I also use Foobar and don't have skipping but when I try to skip to the next file before it completes Foobar hangs up and after 15-20seconds I get a dialog box with and error message - "unrecoverable playback error: timeout".   If I use the "Stop" button on Foobar before going to the next file I will still give the error about 20% of the time. Buffer length is set to 1000ms and file buffer size is 9999999999999.   OICWUTUDIDTHAR what are your settings?   I'd be happy if I can get it to just skip at the beginning instead of stop, timeout,  have to close the dialog box and hit start again.


 
   
  Everything stock, settings wise. I tried it on another computer and had the same issue with ASIO playback on Foobar.
   
  I tried using Jriver instead and the issue went away. Very strange.
   
  I've tried adjusting every buffer setting in Foobar and in the actual ASIO driver for the E1 and nothing seems to fix it. I am thinking it may be a cross fading issue with Foobar because as mentioned before, if I stop the song manually before switching to another one, no such cut off occurs when the next song starts playing. It is only when I change the song mid play back or when paused. I would say that the first half second of the song is either cut or it has a strange digital sounding noise in its place, depending on the song.


----------



## Archimago

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> ...
> 
> There is no question that bang/bucks goes up through the roof on the ONE, and prolly even more so on the Muse edition for the most OCD'ed audiophiles amongst us to whom enough is never enough.....Asus don't require a +500% markup to make a living and the customer directly benefits from both their top of the range R&D and low markups(5/10% in the computer world I think).
> 
> ...


 
  Agree...  However, I still want ASUS to fix that issue with frequency response curve when that upsampling button is pressed!!!


----------



## leeperry

Upsampling is really not to my taste, I'll stick to oversampling anytime of the day: http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio
   
  Quote: 





> The effects of upsampling are greatly debated. While it is true that upsampling does help us in attenuating the amount of jitter caused by sampling errors and an inaccurate clock [..] The effects of upsampling are no doubt overstated. By carefully designing the sampler, ADC, digital processing path, and oversampling DAC, the upsampling and asynchronous rate transfer can, in my opinion, be avoided.


 
   
  ASRC is usually a dirty fix to jitter tolerance, but the ONE reclocks all inputs via a 32bit float Sharc DSP so jitter is a non-issue to begin with.


----------



## Whynot32

Some reviewers said that if you set the volume too low then the left channel is more loud than the other one. Has Asus fixed this (does this exists on One Plus and Muses Edition also)? Does anyone know please?
   
  Also, can someone please tell me where can I buy the Muses Edition in Europe please?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whynot32 said:


> Some reviewers said that if you set the volume too low then the left channel is more loud than the other one. Has Asus fixed this (does this exists on One Plus and Muses Edition also)? Does anyone know please?
> 
> Also, can someone please tell me where can I buy the Muses Edition in Europe please?


 
  Should exist on all models, as the only difference is in the op-amps.
   
  Left is louder for me until about 20-30% of the volume bar.
  Just keep your computer's volume bar a little lower, that is a simple fix.


----------



## Gandah

Just want to let anyone who is looking to buy muses01 op-amps, here is a email reply I received just a moment ago that may help out
   
   
  Quote: 





> Dear Mr. Steve,
> 
> Thank you for your enquiry through our website.
> This is Ishizuka from NJR Singapore sales.
> ...


 
  Unfortunately for me, I did not receive this reply from NJR timely before buying muses off ebay. I just hope they are the real-deal
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So for anyone considering upgrading to muses and don't want the risk of ebay, your in luck


----------



## mwindham08

There was only 1 person selling muses on ebay when I bought them and they were the real deal. Your probably safe.


----------



## Gandah

Yeah I think they will be the real deal. Tim aka cssarrow also got his m01 off the same ebayer, which he said he is happy with them.
   
  Just wish they were here already, the wait is doing my head-in


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Just want to let anyone who is looking to buy muses01 op-amps, here is a email reply I received just a moment ago that may help out
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I did not receive this reply from NJR timely before buying muses off ebay. I just hope they are the real-deal
> ...


 
   
  I've sent a request for a quote...hopefully they have it at a reasonable price.
   
  Cheers !!


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





midnightfox said:


> I've sent a request for a quote...hopefully they have it at a reasonable price.
> 
> Cheers !!


 
  Cool, yeah it's a bit weird how you have to ask for a quote to find out the pricing. Because my op's are already on the way I never asked for a quote. However will be interesting to see what you end up getting them for, and I'm sure others are curious as well. keep us in the loop mnfox


----------



## Whynot32

1) Can someone who tested both standard and Muses edition comment on sound difference? Will I hear any difference using HD 598?
   
  2) Also, will I be able to use 50 ohm headphones with Essence One or they will be too loud?
   
  3) Why the Muses edition doesn't have 11 Muses op amps and got only 6?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whynot32 said:


> 1) Can someone who tested both standard and Muses edition comment on sound difference? Will I hear any difference using HD 598?
> 
> 2) Also, will I be able to use 50 ohm headphones with Essence One or they will be too loud?
> 
> ...


 
  You should read from page 80 and onwards.
   
  Standard vs Muses are only different for their OP-Amps.
  Since you use 598's, the upgraded Essence Version, the Muses, will help with your headphones as they are more suited for classical, which i found the MUSES01 op-amps to address really well with.
   
  50ohm headphones work fine, i'm even using some 30-35 ohm non-orthodynamic and is perfectly usable.
   
  Each Op-Amp are $50 and over.
  The 6 that are placed in I/V and LFP affects all outputs, while the buffers would only affect their specific channel output.
   
  So say for example, if you have 2 that are put in the XLR's Buffer, and you end up not using XLR, then you'll end up losing $100.
   
  Not everyone is going to use all outputs, thus ASUS made it ultimately up to the consumer in terms of op-amps, providing easability of letting them do it themselves. (personal sound tweaks)
   
  I bought mine from ebay for around $58.9 each, don't really recommend it, so if you find a better deal, go for it.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Limniscate

Has anyone tried this DAC with the Sennheiser Momentums?  When I tried them, it sounded horrible.  There's some sort of incompatibility.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





limniscate said:


> Has anyone tried this DAC with the Sennheiser Momentums?  When I tried them, it sounded horrible.  There's some sort of incompatibility.


 
  have you tried other phones with the dac? I also use low impedance phones not quite as low as Momentums of 18Ω however that should not be a problem as 16Ω is the lowest recommendation


----------



## cssarrow

Bad luck for me with the Essence One.
   
  One of the Elna Silmic II 220uF 35V capacitors i used for the Right Chanel RCA gave out, and while taking them out, the copper sockets came along.
  Followed the leads to attempt soldering it onto a resistor, and the resistor came out.
   




   
  Resistor is super small and has the words "01A" or "01R", if anyone knows what resistance that is and where to get one cheap, that would be awesome.
  Did some research and it's either 100 Ω or 1Ω, gee.... big difference.
   
*Tim*


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Bad luck for me with the Essence One.
> 
> One of the Elna Silmic II 220uF 35V capacitors i used for the Right Chanel RCA gave out, and while taking them out, the copper sockets came along.
> Followed the leads to attempt soldering it onto a resistor, and the resistor came out.
> ...


 

 01A = 100 Ω
  01R = 1 Ω
  Any multimeter will help you. If this one is broken, there should be other soldered on tke pcb (to measure) - for left channel, as layout is mostly symetrical.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> 01A = 100 Ω
> 01R = 1 Ω
> Any multimeter will help you. If this one is broken, there should be other soldered on tke pcb (to measure) - for left channel, as layout is mostly symetrical.


 
  Yeah, it's broken, the metal ends flew off.
  I see the same value for the left channel, so i'll get to measuring it in the morning, totally forgot about using a multi-meter.
  This is why i like Head-Fi, thanks so much DMarasovic.
   
  What do you think the size of the smd resistor is based on this picture:
   

   
  Either get one on ebay, nearby radio shack, or just put a regular size 100ohm <1% in there.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Heya! Back from the Phils and my OPA2111 KP's & OPA2227 arrived!
  Going to test them out right away.
   
  What happend to your HE-500/HD-800 Tim? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  All the best!


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Yeah, it's broken, the metal ends flew off.
> I see the same value for the left channel, so i'll get to measuring it in the morning, totally forgot about using a multi-meter.
> This is why i like Head-Fi, thanks so much DMarasovic.
> 
> ...


 

 It is not easy to estimate from picture - it seems to me about 2mm = 0805 size.
  Try this table: *http://tinyurl.com/bt2mwqd*


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Heya! Back from the Phils and my OPA2111 KP's & OPA2227 arrived!
> Going to test them out right away.
> 
> What happend to your HE-500/HD-800 Tim?
> ...


 
  LCD-2 had me since day one.
  Sold both of them, and making a 8 wire pure silver cable for my Audeze cans.
  Only if i had money for an LCD-3....i would so cop for one.
  Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> It is not easy to estimate from picture - it seems to me about 2mm = 0805 size.
> Try this table: *http://tinyurl.com/bt2mwqd*


 
  Yeah, i was also going to say it's 2mm = 0805.
  Looks to be 2mm when holding it.
  Thanks so much for the help!


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> LCD-2 had me since day one.
> Sold both of them, and making a 8 wire pure silver cable for my Audeze cans.
> Only if i had money for an LCD-3....i would so cop for one.
> Yeah, i was also going to say it's 2mm = 0805.
> ...


 

 Oh I see.
  Yea, I was about to buy the LCD-3 there however my credit card had problems with any purchase above 2,000 USD.
  But anyway, I'm planing to go there again (this year or next) but this time with a card suited for that kind of payment


----------



## mwindham08

You need to let me borrow your card then, my card can't handle 2000 dollars either!


----------



## Gandah

LCD-3's are a great headphone no question, and when I started looking into audiophile HP they were at the top of my list for quite sometime, but when I finally had the funds to go out and buy them, in the same week I got a chance to listen to the Fostex TH900s and was just blown away by SQ and how much bass it had. Compared to the LCD-3s which I had my heart set on the final straw that tipped the scales was comfort. it wasn't price as they are pretty much the same in that regard, however I did end up getting them at a great price, but that was not why
   
  More than likely I will end up with the LCDs its just a mater of time and of course funds


----------



## Mikrobi

I have been reading the forum for some time, but this is my first post. So, hello everybody! 
   
  I have bought ASUS E1 about two months ago and have been happy since. It is plugged to my TEAC A-H500 amp, some DENON speakers and HD650. However, there was a silent buzzing sound when I cranked TEACs volume up past 10 o'clock. It did not change with DAC volume control or source change - buzzing was constant. What's more, upsampling gave another squealing sound. There was no buzz through DACs headphone out.
   
  Yesterday I started investigating the problem by taking power section apart. First, I bypassed mains plug (and fuse), main switch and unscrewed the transformer. Did not help. Then I unscrewed power section transistors' radiators from the bigger "container" radiator. That did the trick! Buzzing and upsampling squeal were gone, but I could not leave it that way - I had the power section laying on my hand palm. So I connected back the transistors' radiators to the main underlying radiator and noticed that unscrewing two main radiator screws solved the problem (fortunately, the big radiator is both screwed and glued to the floor). I guess that the glue is a thermal adhesive so screws are not that necessary.
   
  Why E1 had this buzzing sound (via RCA out) and why it is gone (after disconnecting 2 power section floor screws) is a mystery for me. Nevertheless, it is good now.


----------



## Gandah

First Welcome to the forum Mikrobi
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If I had to guess and this is only from my own experiences, I would say its a short, and by the sounds of it, because you don't have this problem with the HP jack the short could be from the equipment your plugging into the E1 transferring back "somehow" to the radiator screws.
   
  Look it could very well be something else I'm just guesstimating


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> It is not easy to estimate from picture - it seems to me about 2mm = 0805 size.
> Try this table: *http://tinyurl.com/bt2mwqd*


 
  Ended up being 100 ohm.





.
  Little smaller than 2mm, more around 1-1.2mm, i'm thinking its a 0603 resistor.
   
*Tim*


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





mikrobi said:


> I have been reading the forum for some time, but this is my first post. So, hello everybody!
> ,,,
> ,,,
> Why E1 had this buzzing sound (via RCA out) and why it is gone (after disconnecting 2 power section floor screws) is a mystery for me. Nevertheless, it is good now.


 
  Welcome !
  It could be a "Ground Loop" through other components. Did you try to rotate power plug (one by one - E1, Amp, PC ...) by 180 degrees ? Try to push socketed IC's, maybe there is a bad contact.


----------



## Mikrobi

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Welcome !
> It could be a "Ground Loop" through other components. Did you try to rotate power plug (one by one - E1, Amp, PC ...) by 180 degrees ? Try to push socketed IC's, maybe there is a bad contact.


 
   
  I have been trying E1 with another amp (Yamaha RX-797) in another room, from two other wall sockets with other interconnects but the problem remained. Even with no source connected - only E1 + amp + headphones. Unscrewing those 2 radiator floor screws solved it. It was interesting to rotate them in with the screwdriver while listening to buzzing sound gradually increasing. I would put the picture pointing those screws here, but I can’t ("There was a problem submitting this to the server. Please try again" - maybe because I am a freshman here).
   
  I hope that leaving E1 this way will not jeopardize temperature flow from the radiators. For the last two days E1 chassis seemed to be getting warm as much as before the 2-screws-solution.


----------



## Limniscate

gandah said:


> have you tried other phones with the dac? I also use low impedance phones not quite as low as Momentums of 18Ω however that should not be a problem as 16Ω is the lowest recommendation




Yes, I tried the HE400 and the W1000x, which both sounded fine. The Momentums sounded fine on other DACs.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





limniscate said:


> Yes, I tried the HE400 and the W1000x, which both sounded fine. The Momentums sounded fine on other DACs.


 
  That's a bugger Limniscate, I'm not sure what the problem could be, maybe someone else on the thread may know or if ASUSXONAR could give a response would be great.
   
  Quote: 





limniscate said:


> Has anyone tried this DAC with the Sennheiser Momentums?  When I tried them, it sounded horrible.  There's some sort of incompatibility.


 
  Hopefully we can get some answers for you


----------



## cssarrow

ipod earphones are working fine for me with the Essence One (with 1/4 adapter of course).


----------



## Kenion

Really enjoying the OPA2227's from BurrBrown in the I/V. Great punchy bass & soundstage and almost no fatiguing "sss" in the highs.
  And since I'm not using the LME49990's anymore, no more overheating/oscillating (afaik).
  I'll use them in conjunction with DIP-8 adapters so I can replace them easily (thanks to Tim for the ebay seller's link). No more bending of pins, easily replaceable just using my fingers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  I've also tested the OPA2111 KP in the I/V. I find them to be a bit too bright sounding (still evaluating). However, they do just fine in the buffer. I just prefer the AD797BR's for their warm, analog sound.


----------



## mwindham08

Just added two dual LME48710HA's to the headphone out.
   
  Greater clarity, detail, and instrument seperation compared to the stock op-amps.
   
  Feels like a veil has been lifted from the music.
   
  Great improvement for the LCD-2's which are darker anyway.
   
  This is just and initial impression but they are definitely staying in my E1!


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Just added two dual LME48710HA's to the headphone out.
> 
> Greater clarity, detail, and instrument seperation compared to the stock op-amps.
> 
> ...


 
  48710? If you mean the 49710, i feel the same way.
   
  The op-amps are a much brighter than stock, and a tad brighter than LME498720/LM4562.
  Works GREAT with the darker LCD-2.
  Was a little too bright with the Hifiman HE-500 when i tried it, but sounded good with the lower treble HE-400.
   
  All i know is LME49710HA + Muses01 + LCD-2 = Win.
   
*Tim*


----------



## mwindham08

Woops, Typo


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

With the 49990 in i/v i didn´t have any oscillation noises, the ad797 was unstable in every position. Right now i am using the 49990 in i/v and the 49710 in every other position. The 49710 is less bright than the 49720 so it suits more in the one.


----------



## cssarrow

Very nice!
   
  I also found 49710 to be a little smoother sounding than the 49720.


----------



## xneakers

Hi,
anyone experience problem playing 24/192 via Coaxial to E1?

i'm using QLS-660 and cant get any lock in 192. The old firmware even worst which couldnt lock anything but 44.1. After I upgraded it, all can be locked, except 192.

i have tried with Lavry and Lynx without any issue. So I dont think my QLS is the main problem.

thanks.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Looks like the opa827 is a nice alternative for the 49710 in the buffer. The 49710 tends to be a bit too direct sounding, it can be unpleasant if you listen for longer periods. The opa827 is smoother sounding so the people who had problems with sharp high notes should try it out. In terms of sound quality they seem to be pretty much on the same level.


----------



## mwindham08

I haven't had any problems playing 24/192 through coaxial.
   
  I'm on the latest firmware/driver.
   
  Might try running the update again, or flashing back to an old driver and then running the update.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Hi,
> anyone experience problem playing 24/192 via Coaxial to E1?
> 
> i'm using QLS-660 and cant get any lock in 192. The old firmware even worst which couldnt lock anything but 44.1. After I upgraded it, all can be locked, except 192.
> ...


 
  No problems via any input.


----------



## xneakers

Hi mwindham08 and dmarasovic,
could you share what is your source / media player used?
thanks.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Hi mwindham08 and dmarasovic,
> could you share what is your source / media player used?
> thanks.


 

 PC - Windows XP with Foobar (usb, coaxial, optical), Laptop - Windows 7 (usb,optical) with JRiver Media Center 18.


----------



## mwindham08

Windows 7--Asus xonar d2x sound card--foobar

Coaxial used


----------



## FlemmingBach

Hi,
   
  Is there any interest among owners of Asus Essence One, of a Passive I/V drop in PCB/socket for each of the four dual opamp  that does the I/V  ?
   
  For the last six month or so, I have been using a passive I/V circuit for my Asus E1 and to my ears it beats any opamp that I have listen to!
   
  My circuit is also providing negative bias current (-3.5mA) for the Iout of the PCM1795, so that the Iout pin is kept close to 0V DC as possible. 
  And it uses a fixed resistor to do the I/V combined with the input impedans of the following amplifier.  My circuit gives about 267mVrms for each Iout. 
   
  My circuit is constructed such way that there is no need to modify the main PCB so you can always go back to the original configuration with opamps for I/V.
  PCB is 17x17mm with 7 pcs SMD 1206 and one 100uF capacitor to decouple negative bias point. Panasonic FR series.
   
  I also have an piggybag solution to get extra gain on the XLR output to compensate for the lower output of passive I/V.  Again no modification is need on the main PCB  
   
  PCB has not been made yet, as I would like to know if there is an interest out there first!
   
  Cheers
  Flemming Bach
  BachAudio
  of Denmark


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





flemmingbach said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there any interest among owners of Asus Essence One, of a Passive I/V drop in PCB/socket for each of the four dual opamp  that does the I/V  ?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is there a picture you can show us so that we can understand more of what you're talking about?
   
  If they are better than MUSES01, i'd be interested.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





flemmingbach said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there any interest among owners of Asus Essence One, of a Passive I/V drop in PCB/socket for each of the four dual opamp  that does the I/V  ?
> 
> ...


 
  Sounds interesting, it would be interesting to hear how it sounds compared to good op amps in the i/v.


----------



## xneakers

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> PC - Windows XP with Foobar (usb, coaxial, optical), Laptop - Windows 7 (usb,optical) with JRiver Media Center 18.


 
   
  Hi DMarasovic,
  You mean you are using USB->Coax/Optic -> E1 in DAC Mode?
  Thanks.
   
  Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Windows 7--Asus xonar d2x sound card--foobar
> 
> Coaxial used


 
   
  Hi mwindham08,
  You mean you are using D2X with Coax/Optic output to E1 in DAC Mode?
 Thanks.


----------



## mwindham08

I'm outputting from xonar d2x to E1 through coaxial cable yes. I was using it as solely a dac but it's now also my headphone amplifier.


----------



## leeperry

how about a tranny output stage then? http://www.head-fi.org/t/468808/


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Hi DMarasovic,
> You mean you are using USB->Coax/Optic -> E1 in DAC Mode?
> Thanks.


 
  No, I mainly use USB output, but tried other outputs one by one to check 24/192. I do not store flacs in that format as it is a vaste of HD space.


----------



## xneakers

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> No, I mainly use USB output, but tried other outputs one by one to check 24/192. I do not store flacs in that format as it is a vaste of HD space.


 
   
  Hi DMarasovic,
  I also dont have any problem if using USB. 44.1 to 192 kHz all works flawlessly.
   
  But if I use E1 as stand alone DAC mode and pick Coax as Input (as Toslink is limited to 96 kHz), then I can't get my E1 locked. Up to 176 is fine.
   
  The source off course could be another sound card with Coax output or standalone HiRes player like QLS-660.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Hi DMarasovic,
> I also dont have any problem if using USB. 44.1 to 192 kHz all works flawlessly.
> 
> But if I use E1 as stand alone DAC mode and pick Coax as Input (as Toslink is limited to 96 kHz), then I can't get my E1 locked. Up to 176 is fine.
> ...


 

 I have mediaplayer Tvix HD S1. It has optical and coaxial outputs limited to 96 kHz (not supporting 88.2 either), but PC and Laptop turn on blue 192 kHz lamp at E1. Be careful that upsampling mode is off.


----------



## xneakers

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> I have mediaplayer Tvix HD S1. It has optical and coaxial outputs limited to 96 kHz (not supporting 88.2 either), but PC and Laptop turn on blue 192 kHz lamp at E1. Be careful that upsampling mode is off.


 
  Hi DMarasovic,
  With PC/NB and USB, I also dont have any problem up to 192 kHz.
  Thanks.


----------



## rocMcBan

How does the E1 compare with the Magni-Modi combo from Schiit ?
  In my neck of the woods, after all is said and done, I am only looking at about $100 dollars difference.
  I am listening on Technics RP-DH1200 and/or Sony Z-1000 ,mostly classical, opera and some Kraftwerk tossed in from time to time. Folk and reggae too and who knows what else may come about.
  This setup will possibly be completed in the near future by a pair of active speakers as soon as the budget clears the executive steering committee. For those late hours at work when everyone left and it is ok the listen without headphones.


----------



## Gandah

Two days ago I upgraded to the muses, which has made the E1 incredibly awesome in SQ, 10 times better then any other opamp combos I've tried, absolutely worth it if your considering the Muses Edition or an upgrade to the muses01 opamp's
   
  However, I have a problem with my E1 not the muses but rather the unit itself. Today I received my new balanced HP amp HeadAmp GS-X mk2. Which my E1 is feeding using balanced XLR out, as soon as I started listening I notice my left channel is louder then the right by about the same margin I had with the E1 internal HP amp when I first got it, but went away after 300 hours of burn-intime. I also have to have the E1 XLR volume maxed out at 5 o'clock for normal volume level on the GS-X
   
  I have since tried using a cd player in the RCA on the GS-X to see what volume level I should set the E1 at, however the cd player is louder than the E1 even at max volume, I can live with the E1 at max volume, what I can not live with is one chl louder than the other.
   
  If anyone has any suggestions or advice it would be much appreciated
   
   
  Cheers,
  ~Steve


----------



## turokrocks

I found this update by coincidence:


----------



## dannyhc

Nice find this fixes the bug with Jie Extreme Player, event mode now works in Windows 8 x64


----------



## cssarrow

Very nice find.


----------



## Kenion

Have you give them a try?


----------



## gattari

This drv is only for the muses edition? Or not.
The vers number seems the same as the latest 2012 drivers.
Ciao


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gattari said:


> This drv is only for the muses edition? Or not.
> The vers number seems the same as the latest 2012 drivers.
> Ciao


 
  Should work with the regular essence if you're using windows 8.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Tim, you probably would know more about the E1 then most, do you think it's possible to replace the volume potentiometer without to much hassle?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Tim, you probably would know more about the E1 then most, do you think it's possible to replace the volume potentiometer without to much hassle?


 
  it's stuck pretty hard.
   
  There are 12 mini pins (soldered to pcb underneath), and 2 large pins right behind it (also being soldered to the pcb).
   
  The best way to take it out, use a heat-gun to the appropriate temperature blowing at the pins.
  Do this underneath the pcb, not from above, as it might melt hardware around it.
  After it's hot enough, the solder should liquify, just clamp it out with a tool, and put a newer unit in.
   
  Should be the same way as unsoldering/soldering capacitors (the easy heat-gun way).
   
  You might need one of those heatgun with a smaller tip, or an adapter on a larger blow hair dryer sized one.
  This will minimize damage.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Thanks Tim, appreciated it
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  With what I have read here and on other forums in the last 24hours, is the imbalance problem lies with the alpha Taiwan potentiometer in all E1's, but can be fixed by turn the volume up, this is why only a few people are having this problem, because low impedance HPs don't require much volume power compared to 50+ ohm HPs. However you can get around this problem by turning down the windows/mac volume by giving more volume play on the E1
   
  But when it comes to using the E1 as a dedicated DAC, for "me" anyhow, the imbalance remains no matter how high I move the volume.
   
  So that's why I asked you about replacing the volume pot, which I'm going to look further into
   
  Cheers Tim,
   
  ~Steve


----------



## cssarrow

Oh, you're talking about the sound im-balance channel issue?
   
  Do you think replacing the volume meter will solve the problem?
  I get channel imbalance at low volumes regardless of how many impedance headphones i am using.
  Even when correct with Windows Volume, one side always sounds to be 2-5% louder than the other side.
   
  This happens in both DAC and DAC/HPA.
   
  Doesn't bother me too much, as i can have it correct in Audio Control Panel, setting one side 96%, while the lower channel sound at 100%.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Lohb

Sorry, mistaken post.


----------



## dynamics

I have a channel imbalance too.  My left channel is louder than the right channel.  I believe this is quite common with analog volume controls.
   
  However, the channel imbalance is actually quite bad at low volumes.  I only hear the channel imbalance on the speakers' volume knob.  I don't notice it on the headphone's volume knob.  However, when I turn up the volume it seems to balance it out, but then it's too loud to listen too.  What I've done is leave the volume on the DAC at 100% and I control the volume up and down through my speakers' volume knob.  That seems to fix the issue.
   
  It does seem a bit ridiculous though to pay a high price and still have to do work around methods to have it work properly.
   
  Does anyone know if any DACs do not have this issue of channel imbalance when using analog volume control? or is it even possible to have it have it perfectly balanced through analog volume control?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> It does seem a bit ridiculous though to pay a high price and still have to do work around methods to have it work properly.


 
  I agree absolutely ridiculous, I also don't have any imbalance problem with internal HP amp, well I did when I first got it, but went away after a few hundred hours,  I'm hopeful for the same with the XLR/RCA pot, but I'm not going to hold my breath as its more severe, 5db difference guesstimating
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Your Denon's and my Fostex are very much the same HPs in build, and Ohms, and are both made by Fostex. Where approximately do you normally set your volume on average? for me I have windows volume at 40 and internal HP amp at 10 o'clock, this also depends on source file, but on average its 40, 10


----------



## cssarrow

Agree with it not showing as much on Headphones, but yeah, speakers it surely hits hard.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Doesn't bother me too much, as i can have it correct in Audio Control Panel, setting one side 96%, while the lower channel sound at 100%.
> 
> *Tim*


 
  Yeah for Spotify and MOG this works great but for Foobar using ASIO it's not. I've been searching for a plugin but haven't fund one that works unfortunately


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





gandah said:


> I agree absolutely ridiculous, I also don't have any imbalance problem with internal HP amp, well I did when I first got it, but went away after a few hundred hours,  I'm hopeful for the same with the XLR/RCA pot, but I'm not going to hold my breath as its more severe, 5db difference guesstimating
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I leave the Windows volume at 100% and the HP amp volume is usually at 7-8 o'clock position.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Agree with it not showing as much on Headphones, but yeah, speakers it surely hits hard.


 

 Do you leave the volume on the speakers DAC at 100% and control the volume through the speakers itself?
   
  You have the same speakers as I do.  I'm just curious to how you control yours.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Do you leave the volume on the speakers DAC at 100% and control the volume through the speakers itself?
> 
> You have the same speakers as I do.  I'm just curious to how you control yours.


 

 100% in Windows.
 12-3PM on Essence One
 Volume is controlled on the A5+ to my desired listening levels.
 
 The A5+ that i use is heavily moded (http://www.head-fi.org/t/644525/audioengine-a5-speaker-upgrades).
  I would say it's 2-5% less loud than the regular.
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> 100% in Windows.
> 12-3PM on Essence One
> Volume is controlled on the A5+ to my desired listening levels.
> 
> ...


 
  I do it the exact same way as you.  Windows is a 100% and I have the volume set at 3 o'clock position on the Essence One right now.  I also use the volume knob on the A5+ to control the volume.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> 100% in Windows.
> 12-3PM on Essence One
> Volume is controlled on the A5+ to my desired listening levels.
> 
> ...


 
  hmmm interesting, I hear no difference with XLR volume between 9-5 o'clock. Makes me think why asus didn't just put a pre-amp button rather than volume pot


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> I do it the exact same way as you.  Windows is a 100% and I have the volume set at 3 o'clock position on the Essence One right now.  I also use the volume knob on the A5+ to control the volume.


 
  That's awesome hahaha!
   
  3 o'clock is good, as anything before 12 has a channel imbalance issue on speakers.
  I set it at 3 just in case it needs any extra room to settle down the balancing problem.
   
  How do you like your A5+'s with the Essence One?
  Which op-amps are you using?
  Seems to me, that whichever op-amp you use, A5+ has great smooth treble, and good bass impact.
  The LME49710 & LME49720 which is suppose to be more centralized on sound stage/detail/separation/treble still sounds great on the A5+.
  It's actually my preferred as i felt prior bass was too over the top, and the LME49710/20 fixed the issue nicely.
  Makes it sound more neutral which is nice.
   
  With NE5532 sitting in I/V and LFP though....it's bass becomes overly emphasized, and that ends up covering up all the other features that i preferred.
   
  Just thought like sharing.




   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> That's awesome hahaha!
> 
> 3 o'clock is good, as anything before 12 has a channel imbalance issue on speakers.
> I set it at 3 just in case it needs any extra room to settle down the balancing problem.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info man.  I don't know the technical aspects as much as you.  But I'm using the muses edition and I have changed nothing at all on it.  I didn't buy the Essence One and do all the modding, cause I don't know how to do all that.  I went ahead and bought Muses directly from ASUS.
   
  I love the combo of the A5+ and Essence One Muses.  They work very well together.
   
  I know Muses has the 6 opamps muse01.  Are there any other amps inside the unit that could be changed to the muse01 opamps and will there be any benefits?
   
  Or the ones that are in there what would you recommend to change them too?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Thanks for the info man.  I don't know the technical aspects as much as you.  But I'm using the muses edition and I have changed nothing at all on it.  I didn't buy the Essence One and do all the modding, cause I don't know how to do all that.  I went ahead and bought Muses directly from ASUS.
> 
> I love the combo of the A5+ and Essence One Muses.  They work very well together.
> 
> ...


 
  I have 8 muses01 op-amps total, i put them in headphone buffer and rca buffer, but to me, they didn't sound as good as the LME49710HA's on adapter pcb.
   
  I wouldn't recommend you doing any other upgrades besides changing LM4562 to LME49710, but you're not going to gain a significant improvement, but it's there, and you can hear it without "listening for it".
  Would be better if you bought pre-made ones and just popped them in.
  Real simple, takes no skill.
   
  You'll hear more of the difference on headphones (Denon AH-D7000).
  For speakers, not so much, but again, it's there.
  The A5+ sure sounds more like studio monitors with the muses01's don't they. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  If only they had made the A5+ with less parts restriction (in order to market it at a lower price), it could of been wayy better sounding speakers. 
  That's why i had to change the parts on mine.
  It wasn't doing justice to how it's hardware was made to sound.
   
  If you don't use XLR, you should just ignore changing those op-amps.
  I don't have any op-amps in my XLR buffer, i gave them to Turokrocks.
   
*Tim*


----------



## endeeinn

Is anyone using Jplay & Foobar2000 with the E1?   If so what is the foobar and jplay configurations?   I can't get it to play with the Jplay asio driver.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I have 8 muses01 op-amps total, i put them in headphone buffer and rca buffer, but to me, they didn't sound as good as the LME49710HA's on adapter pcb.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend you doing any other upgrades besides changing LM4562 to LME49710, but you're not going to gain a significant improvement, but it's there, and you can hear it without "listening for it".
> Would be better if you bought pre-made ones and just popped them in.
> ...


 
  Thanks for the info.
   
  The muse01 that Asus put in, do they affect the XLR buffer or no?
   
  I'm not planning to do any upgrades at all by the way.  I'm very happy with the way it sounds.
   
  I remember you saying you had Schiit bitfrost and one of their amps, how do they compare with the muses?  Do you prefer the muses sound signature more?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> The muse01 that Asus put in, do they affect the XLR buffer or no?
> 
> ...


 
  the 6 spots the muses01 were put in affects all outputs.
   
  There's always happier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Schiit Bifrost was good, but i preferred the E-One as a DAC.
  What i prefer more as a DAC, was the NuForce DAC-100.
   
  Amp wise, Essence One is surly nearly at the top of my list (2nd place).
  I've only found the Bottlehead S.E.X. to be better, and i've trialed a bunch amps, so glad to say the Essence One is awesome.
  LYR i've gotten a chance to trail over again, but this time with higher end tubes.
  I'd say it's better the the Essence One, but barely.
   
  I've never heard the Denon AH-D7000, that is probably my next headphone to try.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Finally found a working stereo balance plugin for Foobar when using ASIO that some peeps maybe also interested in. It's a graphic equalizer which also has channel balancing, unlike the default equalizer which doesn't

  You access it the same way as the default equalizer, Menu>View>Graphic Equalizer
   
  Linkage http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=88504&st=0&p=755011&#entry755011


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> the 6 spots the muses01 were put in affects all outputs.
> 
> There's always happier.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you know if the NuForce DAC-100 has channel balance issues as well?
   
  I've heard it's pretty common with analog volume controls.  So I don't know.
   
  Another DAC I've heard good things about is the Micromega MyDac.  I've been curious to check out that one.  Also, they released a headphone amp too called MyZic. I might just order them and give it a try.
   
  Another question, do you upsample everything to 24 192 or do you play bit perfect?  I have mine set at 24 96 and I'm very happy with it so far.  I had it at 24 192 before, but someone said to leave at 24 96, it's considered the sweet spot for most DACs :s.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Do you know if the NuForce DAC-100 has channel balance issues as well?
> 
> I've heard it's pretty common with analog volume controls.  So I don't know.
> 
> ...


 
  DAC-100 doesn't have the issue.
   
  Micromega MyDac looks like an old school X-Box. $369 ain't so bad, I'll check out the MyZic's spec and get back to you on that.
   
  Upsampling i pretty much never use.
  Just Bit-Perfect has better frequencies to my ears.
  The only time i play 24/96 is with tracks that are made like that.
   
  You should compare the upsample to the original as blind test it to see which you prefer.
  Try not to trust too much on other's comments.
  I take everything with a grain of salt.
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> DAC-100 doesn't have the issue.
> 
> Micromega MyDac looks like an old school X-Box. $369 ain't so bad, I'll check out the MyZic's spec and get back to you on that.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks once again.
   
  Yes, don't let the looks fool you on the MyDac.  I heard it's a top notch performer and the plastic enclosure was by design to help with sound quality as well.  I'm really curious to give that a try.
   
  I've always had it upsampled even with sound cards so I guess I prefer that way, lol.  Even though there may not be much of  a difference if anything that's audible.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Thanks once again.
> 
> Yes, don't let the looks fool you on the MyDac.  I heard it's a top notch performer and the plastic enclosure was by design to help with sound quality as well.  I'm really curious to give that a try.
> 
> I've always had it upsampled even with sound cards so I guess I prefer that way, lol.  Even though there may not be much of  a difference if anything that's audible.


 
  Plastic Enclosure help with the sound quality?
  Never heard that one before, as plastic is not a metal, does not conduct, which ultimately doesn't shield audio components.
  Perhaps it has a thin layer of foil or something underneath.
   
  Some good things to have (but doesn't ring awesome, as it's generally used):

 Asynchronous USB/SPDIF
 24Bits/192kHz
 No driver implementation needed for MAC
 Low Noise Linear Power Supply
  
 *Somewhat Awesome:*

 Extremely low power consumption for standby
 No electrolytic capacitors in the audio section (Audio Path)
 No electrolytic capacitors in the power supply section
   
  Makes me wonder how they're not using electrolytics for the PSU section.
   
  For the upsampling, i do notice it within the first 5 seconds, it has a smoother sound, which isn't for me, as i like more sparkle.
  Self preference too i suppose.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Plastic Enclosure help with the sound quality?
> Never heard that one before, as plastic is not a metal, does not conduct, which ultimately doesn't shield audio components.
> Perhaps it has a thin layer of foil or something underneath.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, you know more than I do about the technical side, but here is a quote from one of the makers regarding the plastic case, _“The reasons for the plastic case are more than one. The plastic case is an important part of the design. By choosing totally non-magnetic material, we are able to control all fields at the board level. This is more predictable than a metallic case.”_
   
  If I do get it to try it out,  I'll let you know how it compares to the Essence Muses.
   
  I've also thought about giving a try to Audiolab M-DAC.


----------



## cssarrow

Yes!
  Do let me know!
  I love the aesthetics on the M-DAC, pure simplicity!
   
  Boo hoo, I've always wanted a DAC with a Sabre 9018 D/A chip.
   
  LUCKY GUY!
   
  Whatever your decision is, be sure to compare it to the Essence One, i'm always looking for an upgrade on the cheap.
   
*Tim*


----------



## qqexpress

Hey guys, don't want to sound like spam (and I know this isn't the for sale forums), but would anyone here be interested in buying the original Asus Xonar Essence One ($425 + 4% pp + ship)? I have one for sale in the amp section.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





qqexpress said:


> Hey guys, don't want to sound like spam (and I know this isn't the for sale forums), but would anyone here be interested in buying the original Asus Xonar Essence One ($425 + 4% pp + ship)? I have one for sale in the amp section.


 

 Price is a bit on the high side considering you can pick the original E1 up for $387 band new with warranty. Not trying to make you feel bad or anything... but you did post in the E1 thread
   
http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-asus-xonar-essence-one-price-354854.html


----------



## cssarrow

WOW!
   
  Their price dropped tremendously.
  Must be due to the Muses Release.
   
  Makes me so angry that i bought mine for $550..
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

True that Tim, big price drop
   
  With all its faults not that many a few, it is still a great dac/amp especially at its current pricing


----------



## cssarrow

Faults never bothered me to be honest.

 The only one is that volume imbalance, but it can easily be avoided.
  For the MUSES however, that was a different story.
   





   
*Tim*


----------



## qqexpress

Oh wow, thanks for the heads up. Dang I bought this when it was originally released seeing such a big price hit really hurts.


----------



## dynamics

Those look like Australian websites. If someone where to order from US, they would still have to pay for international shipping and handling.  I don't know how much that would run obviously.  But here in the US, you cannot find it for that cheap.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Faults never bothered me to be honest.
> 
> The only one is that volume imbalance, but it can easily be avoided.
> For the MUSES however, that was a different story.
> ...


 
  Yes I've overcome the few prob's too...... its all good now. And the SQ with the muses is just awesome, really enjoying them


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Those look like Australian websites. If someone where to order from US, they would still have to pay for international shipping and handling.  I don't know how much that would run obviously.  But here in the US, you cannot find it for that cheap.


 

 True


----------



## midnightfox

It's always been priced like that here in Australia. I picked mine up for $399.00 aud when they were first released. 

Not sure why it's priced so differently overseas considering nearly everything is more expensive in Australia.


----------



## Gandah

Pricing does vary from country to country, like my HPs cost $500 less and my analogy amp was $600 more compared to living outside of Australia


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





midnightfox said:


> It's always been priced like that here in Australia. I picked mine up for $399.00 aud when they were first released.
> 
> Not sure why it's priced so differently overseas considering nearly everything is more expensive in Australia.


 
  You sir, are one lucky man.


----------



## 4Real

Still waiting for the Muses Edition to appear in the UK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  What a joke


----------



## dynamics

The channel imbalance on the Muses affects the left side through the speaker output and headphone output is the right side...speakers; left channel is louder and headphones; right channel is louder.


----------



## midnightfox

would this IC extraction tool be better suited to pull out the current OPAMPS then a standard plier? 
     
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390466266777?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2174wt_1202
   
   
   
   
   
​   
   
   
  Cheers !!


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





midnightfox said:


> would this IC extraction tool be better suited to pull out the current OPAMPS then a standard plier?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390466266777?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2174wt_1202


 
  We covered this a few pages back, check it out


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1605#post_9179673


----------



## cssarrow

The resistor in my Essence One broke again (near RCA op-amp).
  I think it was due to solder not being hot enough to bond, no conduction = imbalanced signal.
   
  At times like this, i wish i could sell my speakers and go for something with XLR input, so that i can ignore that broken RCA output on the Essence One entirely.
   
  I wonder..
  Is it possible to make a Dual 3 Pin XLR (Left Channel & Right Channel) to RCA's (Left Channel & Right Channel) cable and have it work with RCA input speakers?
   
*Output/Input Full-Scale Voltage :*
Balanced Output : 4 Vrms ( Vp-p)
Unbalanced Output : 2 Vrms ( Vp-p)
   
  Just scared that the voltage different would have an adverse affect.
  It would still obviously become an unbalanced cable, but it would help me get around the RCA issue.
  Can anyone comment on this?
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

I think I read somewhere XLR is 4v and RCA is 2v. You can buy XLR to RCA cables, so it should be ok


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gandah said:


> I think I read somewhere XLR is 4v and RCA is 2v. You can buy XLR to RCA cables, so it should be ok


 
  Yeah, was wondering what that extra 2V could do.
   
  Been up 2 hours trying to fix this issue on my Essence One, but i think the RCA out is dead.
  Only the left side speaker is working, space is too tight for me to know which line is going where.
  I could just make my own XLR to RCA, but a little weary of that 2V. eh... time to research.
   
  Bad thing is, i only have 49710HA on adapter board for the RCA.
  The XLR uses two for buffer, being too close together, it will not fit 49710's on adapters..
  Gahh! I'm so angryy!!
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> The resistor in my Essence One broke again (near RCA op-amp).
> I think it was due to solder not being hot enough to bond, no conduction = imbalanced signal.
> 
> At times like this, i wish i could sell my speakers and go for something with XLR input, so that i can ignore that broken RCA output on the Essence One entirely.
> ...


 
  The One XLR output does not bring the standard +4db output so it should not be a problem if you use it as RCA. The easyest way is to connect pin 1 as ground, pin 2 as signal and leave pin 3 unconnected on the xlr connector. And also you only get half the amplitude because you don´t use the negative signal anymore.


----------



## gattari

I use the asus one upgraded with six muses opamp with my ls 50 speaker, I tried the lme 49710 in the rca buffer but in my configuration I prefer the sound of standard asus one opamp, Perhaps the upgrade in the buffer with lme 49710 is only recommended for those who use headphones. 
   
  Ciao


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





gandah said:


> We covered this a few pages back, check it out
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


 
  Thanks Gandah, 
   
  I tried searching for it but couldn't seem to find it. 
   
  Cheers,


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> The One XLR output does not bring the standard +4db output so it should not be a problem if you use it as RCA. The easyest way is to connect pin 1 as ground, pin 2 as signal and leave pin 3 unconnected on the xlr connector. And also you only get half the amplitude because you don´t use the negative signal anymore.


 
  Ah.
  Shouldn't pin 3 have to be soldered to pin 1, then pin 1 goes to RCA ground, while pin 2 as signal wire?
   
  Another thing, since it's half amplitude, does it mean that the XLR unbalanced is better, or worst than RCA unbalanced?
  I would think that with a less amp'd signal, would let the powered speakers do their job more and ultimately have lower noise.
   
  So basically i would need two, 3 pin XLR to two RCA plugs.
  One 3 pin XLR for the Left Chanel, and the other for the Right.
  Correct?
   
  Thanks by the way.
  Quote: 





gattari said:


> I use the asus one upgraded with six muses opamp with my ls 50 speaker, I tried the lme 49710 in the rca buffer but in my configuration I prefer the sound of standard asus one opamp, Perhaps the upgrade in the buffer with lme 49710 is only recommended for those who use headphones.
> 
> Ciao


 
  Did you use the 49710 on TO-99 adapter boards in the headphone buffer?
  It's somewhat hard to spot the difference on speakers if your speakers aren't neutral enough.
  It was hard for me to notice it on the speakers at first when using the rca buffer, but the change is there if you play a single FLAC song multiple times.
   
  I'm thinking about switching from RCA Unbalanced to XLR Unbalanced and using two discrete op-amps in the XLR's Buffer stages.
  Perhaps the Audio-gd Sun/Moon/Earth (one of them).
   
  If you feel as if the 49710 did nothing, sell it.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Ah.
> Shouldn't pin 3 have to be soldered to pin 1, then pin 1 goes to RCA ground, while pin 2 as signal wire?
> 
> Another thing, since it's half amplitude, does it mean that the XLR unbalanced is better, or worst than RCA unbalanced?
> ...


 
  You could connect pin 1 and 3 but this is an output so you would basically short one output signal whitch is not a very clean solution and it would not be important like on xlr input adapters. On half amplitude the xlr would be pretty much the same as an rca output.


----------



## cssarrow

Ah, so doing it like that without the extra negative wire cuts it to 2V (in half)?
  Which means half amplitude of XLR, equaling the same as RCA amplitude.
   
  Do you think there will be any differences i can hear using XLR unbalanced versus RCA unbalanced?
  I'm asking this, since the XLR is individually controlled per channel and has it's own separate op-amp.
   
  Pin 2 = Signal
  Pin 1 = Grounded to RCA
  Can i use Pin 3 and connect it to shielding but not connect it at the rca side?
   
  Thanks for the help by the way.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Ah, so doing it like that without the extra negative wire cuts it to 2V (in half)?
> Which means half amplitude of XLR, equaling the same as RCA amplitude.
> 
> Do you think there will be any differences i can hear using XLR unbalanced versus RCA unbalanced?
> ...


 
  It needs to have its own stereo opamp per channel because you always have to buffer the + and - signal instead of only the + on the rca. Looks like that there is a difference in the bypassing of the xlr buffer op-s there are 2 smd capacitors missing compared to the rca outpput. I didn´t really do an xlr/rca comparison, my amp has xlr inputs so i always used xlr but noone reported big differences so they should sound pretty similar. (except that you can´t use the 49710, maybe you should try the opa827 instead). I would leave pin 3 unconnected because you don´t need it and because it is an output and not an input you won´t have problems with noise if you leave a pin unconnected. You should get 2v with only one pin connected to rca.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> It needs to have its own stereo opamp per channel because you always have to buffer the + and - signal instead of only the + on the rca. Looks like that there is a difference in the bypassing of the xlr buffer op-s there are 2 smd capacitors missing compared to the rca outpput. I didn´t really do an xlr/rca comparison, my amp has xlr inputs so i always used xlr but noone reported big differences so they should sound pretty similar. (except that you can´t use the 49710, maybe you should try the opa827 instead). I would leave pin 3 unconnected because you don´t need it and because it is an output and not an input you won´t have problems with noise if you leave a pin unconnected. You should get 2v with only one pin connected to rca.


 
  Thanks! Very descriptive, love ya!
   
  I sold my AD797's and can't recall if they did okay in buffer stages.
  Since i won't be able to use 49710HA's due to size limitation, i'm looking for an alternative.
   
  What does everyone recommend for XLR Buffer?


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Thanks! Very descriptive, love ya!
> 
> I sold my AD797's and can't recall if they did okay in buffer stages.
> Since i won't be able to use 49710HA's due to size limitation, i'm looking for an alternative.
> ...


 
  The ad797-s don´t work well in any position in the one, they are unstable everywhere. I recommended the opa827. i am currently using the lme49990 in i/v and the opa827 in lpf and buffer. Compared to the 49710 it sounds smoother because it does not have that much treble, the 49710 is a bit too bright. Soundstage is probably a bit better than the 49710.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> The ad797-s don´t work well in any position in the one, they are unstable everywhere. I recommended the opa827. i am currently using the lme49990 in i/v and the opa827 in lpf and buffer. Compared to the 49710 it sounds smoother because it does not have that much treble, the 49710 is a bit too bright. Soundstage is probably a bit better than the 49710.


 

 The LME49990 is great in I/V (or in buffer). I just can't let go of them whatever combo I've tried. They are smooth, neutral and they have a really, really big soundstage (the biggest from all opamps I own). I can clearly hear more detail and seperation from my music using them over the AD797BR's in the buffer. However, they may tend to get hissy in certain songs depending on what combo you use with them.


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> The gain jumper is near the headphone section of the MUSES unit. From what I know, it's not really mod friendly (circuit gain will be set by SMT resistors) and the jumper pads won't be part of the standard or plus edition PCB (a PCB revision was made for the jumper).


 
   
  Once and for all, does the MUSES edition have the gain switch or not?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> The ad797-s don´t work well in any position in the one, they are unstable everywhere. I recommended the opa827. i am currently using the lme49990 in i/v and the opa827 in lpf and buffer. Compared to the 49710 it sounds smoother because it does not have that much treble, the 49710 is a bit too bright. Soundstage is probably a bit better than the 49710.


 
  Yeah, i remember that and still so sad.
  Right next to 49710, the AD797 is pretty much my all time favorite op-amp.
   
  Looks like you got a somewhat similar set-up to Kenion.
  Thing is with the treble, i use Audioengine A5+ and Audez'e LCD-2 which isn't spectacular in the treble area, so the 49710's help with this.
  How much smoother is the OPA827? (how lower is the treble?)
  I could use a little bigger sound stage, but not by too much.
  Mainly want to focus on an op-amp with more detail/treble/separation.
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> The LME49990 is great in I/V (or in buffer). I just can't let go of them whatever combo I've tried. They are smooth, neutral and they have a really, really big soundstage (the biggest from all opamps I own). I can clearly hear more detail and seperation from my music using them over the AD797BR's in the buffer. However, they may tend to get hissy in certain songs depending on what combo you use with them.


 
  Have you tried the OPA827 in buffer?
  How does LME49990 compare to 49720/4562 in buffer? 
  I'm not too much of a sound stage guyy, one of few reasons why i sold the HE-500/HD-800/AKG K701.
  If you're sure that they have more detail and separation, it's my queue to get them! Those are the two most important thing to me.
  How is the treble/bass/neutrality compared to the AD797 or 49720?
  Quote: 





norway said:


> Once and for all, does the MUSES edition have the gain switch or not?


 
  Read back to earlier pages bro, this was discusses for at least 10 pages.
  It doesn't come with gain switch, unless you RMA it for a new one and specifically request for the switch to be installed.
  Even with that, the gain switch muses doesn't sound as good as the the one without.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Norway

Which opamps in what slots would you guys recommend for a warm, smooth and dark sound signature (through headphones)?
   
  Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Read back to earlier pages bro, this was discusses for at least 10 pages.
> It doesn't come with gain switch, unless you RMA it for a new one and specifically request for the switch to be installed.
> Even with that, the gain switch muses doesn't sound as good as the the one without.


 
  Thanks, but what a disappointment...


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





norway said:


> Which opamps in what slots would you guys recommend for a warm, smooth and dark sound signature (through headphones)?
> 
> Thanks, but what a disappointment...


 
  No problem!
  It's a real shame, for those who use IEM's that is.
   
  i thought the stock NE5532 was smooth/warm/dark.
  Another would be AD797, but it's not usable on the Essence One.
   
  You could give LME49990's a try, that is what im going to do now, for the buffer stages.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> No problem!
> It's a real shame, for those who use IEM's that is.
> 
> i thought the stock NE5532 was smooth/warm/dark.
> ...


 
  Thanks again.
   
  Regarding stock. Yes, I think so too, but can't get enough. Not satisfied before every detail is gone and the bass is muddy, lol. Before the unit was burned in I found it to be a bit harsh, but not anymore.
   
  K, thanks, will try to get a pair of LME49990's. I have some opamps which I haven't tried yet.

 LM4562NA Dual High Performance Audio Op Amp (4pcs)
 OPA2107AP Precision Dual Difet Operational Amplifier (2pcs)
 BURR BROWN OPA2132PA (2pcs)
   
  Any recommendations using any of those?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





norway said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> Regarding stock. Yes, I think so too, but can't get enough. Not satisfied before every detail is gone and the bass is muddy, lol. Before the unit was burned in I found it to be a bit harsh, but not anymore.
> 
> ...


 
  You are getting the same results as most of us them.
  Detail is completely bashed by the muddy bass, and treble smooths out before it can even get half way.
  Most op-mps that i've found makes the sound more neutral, so not sure how the darker would fit for you.
   
  Essence One already has LM4562 in buffer (XLR & RCA).
  If you're listening with headphones or through RCA, what you can do is remove the 6 NE5532.
  take the LM4562's (2) from the XLR buffer.
  Replace those 6 NE5532 with 6 of your LM4562.
   
  Listen and see if you like the difference.
  There should be more detail, treble, and less muddy bass.
  Sound stage and separation should increase as well.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Yeah, i remember that and still so sad.
> Right next to 49710, the AD797 is pretty much my all time favorite op-amp.
> 
> Looks like you got a somewhat similar set-up to Kenion.
> ...


 
  It is noticably darker and more mid focused whitch was a good thing for me because with the 49990 in i/v the sound was too bright with the 49710. I will make some more 49990 and test them also in the buffer.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> It is noticably darker and more mid focused whitch was a good thing for me because with the 49990 in i/v the sound was too bright with the 49710. I will make some more 49990 and test them also in the buffer.


 
  Thanks again man.
   
  I sold mine so i have to re-order.
   
  Headphone buffer with the 49710HA still sounds dark when using with LCD-2, so it's a good match.
  I'll be sure to get enough for the XLR Buffer and see how they compare to the RCA running 49710HA.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> No problem!
> It's a real shame, for those who use IEM's that is.
> 
> i thought the stock NE5532 was smooth/warm/dark.
> ...


 

 I am sure you will be having fun with the LME's.
  They are very detailed and slice your music into many diffrent layers of sounds.
  They are just lacking the "flavor" the AD797BR's have. They are plain neutral and smooth (in my point of view).
   
  I didn't like the LM4562's in combination with the HD-800. I remember them being too bright.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I am sure you will be having fun with the LME's.
> They are very detailed and slice your music into many diffrent layers of sounds.
> They are just lacking the "flavor" the AD797BR's have. They are plain neutral and smooth (in my point of view).
> 
> I didn't like the LM4562's in combination with the HD-800. I remember them being too bright.


 
  Thanks, i'll give them another shot. (For XLR and RCA Buffer only)
  49710HA Headphone Buffer is needed for Audeze LCD-2, but i'll switch to the 49990 once or twice to see how different it is, and see if i like it more.
   
  Neutral/Smooth is good enough for me, as my speakers color music already.
   
  I don't like the LM4562 period.
  LME49720 is just "OK" on my list.
   
  How are you liking the OPA2227?​


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Thanks, i'll give them another shot. (For XLR and RCA Buffer only)
> 49710HA Headphone Buffer is needed for Audeze LCD-2, but i'll switch to the 49990 once or twice to see how different it is, and see if i like it more.
> 
> Neutral/Smooth is good enough for me, as my speakers color music already.
> ...


 

 I've bought a batch of both OPA2227's and OPA2111 KP's from this guy http://www.ebay.com/itm/181068808255?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649.
  I ended up prefering the OPA2777 over the other. I have them running on the I/V (where my LME49990's used to be originally).
  They are really good... I swapped them around a lot and compared them with other combination of opamps but I always ended up with them.
  They emphasize the lows nicely and add a nice "oomph" to the bass as well, without being too muddy sounding (like the NE's).
  For me, they are my personal successor over the NE5532's in every way...
   
  I usually didn't like the LME49990's in the buffer as they are a bit too hissy and just a tad too bright in there but the OPA2227's seem to tame them quite nicely. So I guess they are staying... unless... I happen to get my fingers on another batch of new, exciting opamps... hehe 
   
  I have them all placed on top of DIP8 adaptors from the seller you got yours from too, for a hassle free swapping


----------



## cssarrow

Done deal!
   
  I'll grab some LME49990 and OPA2777 for Headphone & RCA Buffer.
  Will compare them versus the LME49710HA & LME49720.
   
  When i did my modding last time, in the end the right side speaker wasn't getting signal.
  I thought one of my Elna Silmic II capacitors was DOA, but seems like something was just soldered bad.
   
  It was impossible to get the capacitors leads into the hole a second time... so this is what i had to do.....
   

   

   

   
  Had to drill a hole to fit the wire & capacitor leads.
  (2) 100 ohm resistors on the right side fell off, so i have to replace those...pain in the &$$.
   
  Left side is working now, hope the right will too.
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





norway said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> Regarding stock. Yes, I think so too, but can't get enough. Not satisfied before every detail is gone and the bass is muddy, lol. Before the unit was burned in I found it to be a bit harsh, but not anymore.
> 
> ...


 
  Norway, if it wasn't for your YouTube audiophile reviews I probably would not of gotten into this great hobby, I purchased the asus E1 based on your review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Knowing your reviews and the gear you use, go for the muses man, your LCD3s will love them. My TH900s sound very similar to the LCD3s which has been described by many owners of both HPs, however the LCDs are slightly on the darker side of things, which I think with muses will workout being a good pairing.
   
  Cheers
  ~Steve


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





norway said:


> Once and for all, does the MUSES edition have the gain switch or not?


 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1695#post_9208091
   
   
  Any customers that are based in North America that have received a MUSES edition without the jumper will have their unit swapped (if that's what they want). I only deal with the NA region, so other customers will need to contact their local ASUS office (only where stocked).


----------



## gattari

Asusxonar
How many time to fix the upsampling problem that cut the highs frequency .
I really like to listenig the incredible result of upsampling in particular the exceptional layer in low frequency but the crap cutting over the 12khz It really does anger .


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Norway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> LM4562NA Dual High Performance Audio Op Amp (4pcs)
> 
> ...


 
  Right now my combination is : OPA2132 (4pcs) in I/V, OPA2107AP in LPF. It gives the best bass (not dominating, but precise, deep, differentiated, full and kicking) of all combinations tried so far (not tried MUSES01). Mids and highs are clean and detailed, soundstage is not as AD797br, but on average side. I think that this would be a great combination for basic factory shipment.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Done deal!
> 
> I'll grab some LME49990 and OPA2777 for Headphone & RCA Buffer.
> Will compare them versus the LME49710HA & LME49720.
> ...


 
  Sounds pretty complicated, i think just removing the solder would have been easier or were the leads too thick for the hole? 
   
  I tested the lme49990 in the buffer, it also a nice op, brighter than the opa827 so if you are looking for a bright sound you should check it. With the 49990 in i/v and opa827 in lpf the sound was brighter than neutral, actually most op-s are too bright in the one. The 49990 and 827 in lpf and buffer is one of the few combinations that is not too bright.


----------



## Norway

Has anyone tried swapping out those blue diodes with red or amber ones? Red would look bloody awesome.
   
  Quote: 





gandah said:


> Norway, if it wasn't for your YouTube audiophile reviews I probably would not of gotten into this great hobby, I purchased the asus E1 based on your review
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you, that's very kind!   I don't describe myself as an audiophile though, I even say so on the channel page, but I might be in denial, lol. E1 offers the most bang for the buck that I've ever experienced with anything else. Very exciting to see that people here are yielding such great results by swapping opamps too -- seems very promising!
   
  TH900, drooling ...  I *love* Denon AH-D7000 so the TH900 has to be owned sometime! Do you find it to be a good match with E1? Did you get the MUSES edition? Will probably get MUSES, but not until I've rolled some opamps. I have two standard editions to simplify the rolling and maybe use one of them as a bedside rig  Right now LCD-3 and AURALiC TAURUS and ARK MX+ is king, if E1 MUSES can top that I will be gobsmacked.
   
  Which opamps do you like with TH900? Maybe the same combo will be good for D7000.
   
  Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Right now my combination is : OPA2132 (4pcs) in I/V, OPA2107AP in LPF. It gives the best bass (not dominating, but precise, deep, differentiated, full and kicking) of all combinations tried so far (not tried MUSES01). Mids and highs are clean and detailed, soundstage is not as AD797br, but on average side. I think that this would be a great combination for basic factory shipment.


 
   
  Cool, thanks for sharing. A bit short on those OPA2132 to do the same, having just two. 
   
  Do you guys get most of your opamps from ebay? Kind of scary to shop there, with the risk of buying fakes, but getting from reputable sellers with 100 % positive feedback and at least 500-1000 feedbacks should make it safe, right?


----------



## cssarrow

Even if buying from high feedbacks, you could end up receiving fakes and still not know.

I usually buy from those descriptions that have verified their op amp autencity.

Whichever op-amps i swap out for i/v, i still preferthe muses01.
They go well with pretty much anything for buffer, so at times its hard to find a better performing op-amp for the buffer stage.

When you say diode you mean the blue light emiting diodes?
I have already changed all of mine to red 3mm flat heads (flat looks way better on the essence one).
Not only did i change those, i also went on changing the surface mount leds that light up the power button with red as well.

It's a little lless bright now, but the color is awesome!
The previous blue color was way too bright, dont you agree?

@WhiteRaven

Leads were too short and big, could not push them in the socket, and it would of looked ugly if they were mounted sideways.

I got one in so left side works now, took quite awhile to check for continuity so that nothing went wrong, its the right side that im worried about since another 100 ohm resistor came off, but it seems like a simple fix.

Now that i listen to the 49710 more, it does sound a tad bright, especially in speakers.
Maybe its cause im a treble freak.
I'll be auditioning the opa827 and lme49990 soon.
Im guessing since its more neutral, being less bright, if should have more bass/warmth than something like the 49720 right?


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Even if buying from high feedbacks, you could end up receiving fakes and still not know.
> 
> I usually buy from those descriptions that have verified their op amp autencity.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you, will follow your advice on using ebay.
   
  Yes, not really a big fan of the blue. It used to give an exclusive look & feel back when they were rare. Nowadays it seems everything comes with those blue diodes. And yes, it's too bright, especially in a dark room. I've not read through this entire thread lately (read a lot of it 5 months ago), did you ever post an image of your unit with the red ones? If not, would you mind sharing with us? I imagine it to look more aggressive and go better together with the black. Will probably do the same thing myself.


----------



## turokrocks

Is this a limitation from the Creative ZXR or Asus Xonar one?
  
  
 
 My settings:


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> @WhiteRaven
> 
> Leads were too short and big, could not push them in the socket, and it would of looked ugly if they were mounted sideways.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes the opa827 is warmer, in terms of bass in the buffer it problably has a somewhat more bass than the 49710.


----------



## jdesto

I'm very interested in the essence one and am wondering if it will drive my active infinity overture 1 speakers without an additional amp. The infinity's manual states: Amplifier Requirements: Recommended for use with amplifiers
 10 ~ 100 W (@ 8 W)
  Any help will be greatly appreciated!
   
  John


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





norway said:


> Thank you, will follow your advice on using ebay.
> 
> Yes, not really a big fan of the blue. It used to give an exclusive look & feel back when they were rare. Nowadays it seems everything comes with those blue diodes. And yes, it's too bright, especially in a dark room. I've not read through this entire thread lately (read a lot of it 5 months ago), did you ever post an image of your unit with the red ones? If not, would you mind sharing with us? I imagine it to look more aggressive and go better together with the black. Will probably do the same thing myself.


 
  Will have the picture for you soon.
  Looks a lot more aggressive and neutral, unlike the baby blue color looking tipsy and trying to sparkle.
   
  If you don't know which SMD's to buy, i can help you out.


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Will have the picture for you soon.
> Looks a lot more aggressive and neutral, unlike the baby blue color looking tipsy and trying to sparkle.
> 
> If you don't know which SMD's to buy, i can help you out.


 
   
  Cool! 
   
  Yes, please.


----------



## Sk1n5

I'm now running AD797Bs with decoupling and decompensation capacitors soldered on in the I/V stage, AD797Bs with decompensation capactitors in the LPF, and OPA627BMs in the buffer stage. The AD797Bs are stable and run warm, but they're designed to. The 627s remove the hiss that I was getting with the LME49990s in the buffer stage. I've tried running the LME49990s in other stages but it seems to remove a layer of detail, at least to my ears.
   
  Basically I wanted to point out that the AD797s can run stable, they just need some modification to do so.
   
  Sk1n5


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Norway* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> TH900, drooling ...  I *love* Denon AH-D7000 so the TH900 has to be owned sometime! Do you find it to be a good match with E1? Did you get the MUSES edition? Will probably get MUSES, but not until I've rolled some opamps. I have two standard editions to simplify the rolling and maybe use one of them as a bedside rig  Right now LCD-3 and AURALiC TAURUS and ARK MX+ is king, if E1 MUSES can top that I will be gobsmacked.
> 
> Which opamps do you like with TH900? Maybe the same combo will be good for D7000.


 
  Yes you can tell by looks and sound sig of both HPs are made by Fostex, however I think the bass and midrange are more refined. Some reviews say that the TH900s midrange is king of all headphones including 009, and the bass although tight and punchy is a tad on the heavy side, around 2db too much, I did agree with this only when I was running the E1 with the stock opamps and not with any other opamp combos.
   
  My E1 is the standard edition "rolled", other then the Muses my best combo was OPA2132, LM4562 a tad on the ice pick in ears bright side, but not even in the same ballpark as the Muses SQ. I also no longer use the E1s HP amp as I've just recently got a fully balanced amp, GS-X mk2 handmade by Justin at HeadAmp, I can't really comment on the GS-X yet as it's still burning in, also needs better XLR cables. However so far transparent and airy with authority.
   
  Your Auralic setup looks amazing and I bet it sounds just as good too. Can you or have you tried the Grace or E1 balanced into the Taurus?


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Yes the opa827 is warmer, in terms of bass in the buffer it problably has a somewhat more bass than the 49710.


 
  I have been using the 49720 and just recently tried the 49410 in the RCA out and didn't like the 49710 at all.   Back to the 49720 which has much better balance (not as bright).  Bass is tight and solid.   Overall response seems balanced across all frequencies.   Have an 827 and will try that when I get a chance.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> I'm now running AD797Bs with decoupling and decompensation capacitors soldered on in the I/V stage, AD797Bs with decompensation capactitors in the LPF, and OPA627BMs in the buffer stage. The AD797Bs are stable and run warm, but they're designed to. The 627s remove the hiss that I was getting with the LME49990s in the buffer stage. I've tried running the LME49990s in other stages but it seems to remove a layer of detail, at least to my ears.
> 
> Basically I wanted to point out that the AD797s can run stable, they just need some modification to do so.
> 
> Sk1n5


 
  I'm also using the AD797BR in I/V.   They  have .1uf stacked film caps across pins 4 & 8 and a 50pf ceramic across  pins 6 & 8 and they seem stable as they just run warm.   Is that the same thing you are doing.  Are the values the same?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> I'm also using the AD797BR in I/V.   They  have .1uf stacked film caps across pins 4 & 8 and a 50pf ceramic across  pins 6 & 8 and they seem stable as they just run warm.   Is that the same thing you are doing.  Are the values the same?


 

 With the same decompensation (and without) my AD797BR's were stable only at I/V stage. All other positions were oscillating. Those oscillations could not be heard by ear.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





sk1n5 said:


> I'm now running AD797Bs with decoupling and decompensation capacitors soldered on in the I/V stage, AD797Bs with decompensation capactitors in the LPF, and OPA627BMs in the buffer stage. The AD797Bs are stable and run warm, but they're designed to. The 627s remove the hiss that I was getting with the LME49990s in the buffer stage. I've tried running the LME49990s in other stages but it seems to remove a layer of detail, at least to my ears.
> 
> Basically I wanted to point out that the AD797s can run stable, they just need some modification to do so.
> 
> Sk1n5


 
  I tried decoupling with 100uF and 2220nF Capacitors but both didn´t really work. There was still oscillation noise. What did you use for decoupling, maybe i will try that.They sounded nice in the i/v though, but they weren´t quite as detailed as the 49990 and a bit thin. The 49990 is a bit too bright in the buffer.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Can all North American customers that have a MUSES Edition Essence One without the gain jumper feature please contact me via PM, if you would like to swap for one with the gain jumper feature. Have units here we can swap for you - we'll cover shipping both ways. Thanks.


----------



## Gandah

That's pretty cool for those who do want to swap out. Nice one ASUSXONR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  What about the people who can't stand the imbalance of their unit, like myself, can we swap it out for balanced unit? Sorry just putting it out there


----------



## cssarrow

I wish there was a fix for this imbalance sound issue.
   
  Happens in speakers mainly.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> I wish there was a fix for this imbalance sound issue.
> 
> Happens in speakers mainly.


 
  The nice thing about the airmotiv speakers, is that each got its own volume, so issue fixed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...I know you love those babies, don't you?


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> The nice thing about the airmotiv speakers, is that each got its own volume, so issue fixed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Always feels better to have it 100% even, rather than going through tweaks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Makes life more simple.
   
  Airmotiv's are the $h1F.
  I listened to the Stealth, it's good, but.... too large..
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Yes, it would be great if Asus could fix the sound imbalance issue through the speakers.  Maybe they can fix it through a firmware upgrade?
   
  ASUSXONAR, could you bring that to the attention of your engineers?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Yes, it would be great if Asus could fix the sound imbalance issue through the speakers.  Maybe they can fix it through a firmware upgrade?
> 
> ASUSXONAR, could you bring that to the attention of your engineers?


 

 Sound imbalance comes from volume pot and is dependable on it's setting. Mine is affected only at the very beginning of the scale, so at listening levels there is no problem.
  As this is unrepeatable hardware problem, it could be adjusted using software (firmware) case by case - impossible mission.
  The only solution is to use higher quality potentiometer.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Sound imbalance comes from volume pot and is dependable on it's setting. Mine is affected only at the very beginning of the scale, so at listening levels there is no problem.
> As this is unrepeatable hardware problem, it could be adjusted using software (firmware) case by case - impossible mission.
> The only solution is to use higher quality potentiometer.


 
  Yes the Taiwanese Alpha potentiometer are the problem

  Mine on rear output, pot is imbalanced all the way round to 5 o'clock. HP amp on the other hand was imbalanced and now it's not, however I no longer use it anymore. The pot is not of bad quality, it just doesn't gel with the units build
   
  Maybe Japanese Alps potentiometer would of been a better choice

  Just sayin...........


----------



## cssarrow

That picture of the japanese potentiometer doesn't have the two pins coming out the back unlike the stock taiwanese one.

If you can locate a japanese one with the same pins, i'll get two and try it out with my essence one.
It isn't really stock now anyway, might as well give it a try.

As of now, the imbalance is heard mainly from 7-12 o'clock.
From 12-5 o'clock i could hear that the left is 4-5% louder.
Didn't get this problem with the NuForce HDP nor DAC-100 that i have
The only way for me to get around this was by adjusting the L/R balances on Windows.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Sound imbalance comes from volume pot and is dependable on it's setting. Mine is affected only at the very beginning of the scale, so at listening levels there is no problem.
> As this is unrepeatable hardware problem, it could be adjusted using software (firmware) case by case - impossible mission.
> The only solution is to use higher quality potentiometer.


 

 Well, maybe ASUS could offer us to upgrade the volume pot and fix the issue.


----------



## Sk1n5

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> I'm also using the AD797BR in I/V.   They  have .1uf stacked film caps across pins 4 & 8 and a 50pf ceramic across  pins 6 & 8 and they seem stable as they just run warm.   Is that the same thing you are doing.  Are the values the same?


 
  I'm using .22uf across pins 4&8, but .1uf works as well.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

220nF film on the ad797 didn´t really do anything in my case. They remained unstable.


----------



## cssarrow

i got mine stable with two rocks and some jelly.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> If you can locate a japanese one with the same pins, i'll get two and try it out with my essence one.
> It isn't really stock now anyway, might as well give it a try.


 
_Hehe..._ I want to elect Tim for our own resident E1 Beta tester, for all the modding so far, and his willingness to go the extra mile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Unfortunately I don't think its as easy as swapping the pot out, however I could be wrong. My point was if asus design the E1 with Japan Alps pot which has been proven to be robust in the DIY community, we more then likely would not have this problem.
   
  Tim, if anyone can do it you can. I petition Tim aka cssarrow too Essence One mk2 team leader of project design


----------



## cssarrow

"DIY Muses E1" 
   
  Haha!
  That's so cute! I love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It shouldn't be hard.
  Just using a simple heat gun and heating up the bottomof the petentiometer until the solder melts.
  Afterwards, use a long clamp to remove the old and pop in the new.
   
  Might be difficult for those who doesn't have a heat-adjustable/digital heat-gun.
   
  He said Essence One MK-2, hahah! classic.
  That sounds pretty beast, not going to lie.
   
  I'm looking online right now for some Japan Alps Pot with the same pins as the stock.
  Help would be appreciated.
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Does Asus use the same volume pot for the speakers and headphones?
   
  If it is the same one, I wonder why the speaker side is a lot more noticeable?  It's actually quite bad and unacceptable.  If you're selling something for almost 1k, you have to get the basics right.


----------



## cssarrow

Yes, they're identical.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> "DIY Muses E1"
> 
> Haha!
> That's so cute! I love it.


 
_Hehe_... what else would you call it:- E1 Standard edition Muses rolled, DIY means the same thing
   
  Tim, just a bit of fun mate, no piss taking intended. Its all Good!!


----------



## Gandah

I was reading on DIYaudio forum about different volume pots and the DACT potentiometer could be a better option for the E1, because of 2 reasons, first its a step pot with total accuracy for both channels, and second it looks like it would be easier to fit in the E1
   
  I know the Taiwan Alpha feels like a step potentiometer but unfortunately its not


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

Wonder how this compares to the amps in their sound cards.


----------



## cssarrow

Finally fixed my RCA Output on the Essence One.
  It's so ugly now with all the hot glue, that i just want to ditch it and use XLR.
   
  it's a sad enough life...
   
*Edit: *
  Never mind! it broke again.
  Time to use XLR.


----------



## xneakers

I think *this* gonna be an interesting mod...
   
  Neat surgery... 
   

   
   
  Thanks.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> I think *this* gonna be an interesting mod...
> 
> Neat surgery...
> 
> Thanks.


 
  Wow.

 I'm very curious to what he's going to be doing.
  Doesn't look like he would be doing anything with the XLR, as he didn't even bother to remove their capacitors.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





xxicrimsonixx said:


> Wonder how this compares to the amps in their sound cards.


 
   
   
  Well, it has less power than ST or STX, but overall the sound quality is slightly better, a bit warmer and the high end sharpness of the ST/STX is gone. Thats the main issue of ST/STX, they're not exactly musical sound cards.


----------



## ClieOS

Well, this is kind of an insider news but there will be a new addition to the Xonar Essence series in about a month. You won't find much info about it for now but the new model is called STU and it will be an USB DAC / amp. I might have a chance to listen to it in the next few weeks before market release and I will keep you guys updated.


----------



## Gandah

Nice one ClieOS, thanks for the heads up


----------



## cssarrow

Thanks for the head's up!
   
  USB DAC/AMP is exactly what we need.
   
  Hopefully it's more high end and is not USB POWERED.
   
*Tim*


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Well, this is kind of an insider news but there will be a new addition to the Xonar Essence series in about a month. You won't find much info about it for now but the new model is called STU and it will be an USB DAC / amp. I might have a chance to listen to it in the next few weeks before market release and I will keep you guys updated.


 

 Awesome.  I'm curious to see more info on it now.  I'm looking forward to see what it has to offer.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Well, this is kind of an insider news but there will be a new addition to the Xonar Essence series in about a month. You won't find much info about it for now but the new model is called STU and it will be an USB DAC / amp. I might have a chance to listen to it in the next few weeks before market release and I will keep you guys updated.


 
   
   
  Do you know whether it will be higher up the chain compared to the Essence One?


----------



## xneakers

I dont think it's gonna be USB powered. Most likely it's gonna be either Gainclone or TDA. It could be D-Class amp if Asus wants something different, but I have doubt as such amp will be a bit difficult to design with such USB/DAC combo.

From my point of view, I dont really look for such combo between DAC and Amp. Especially if the approach is high end audio. Too many things inside one box surely will create more interferences. Means more pain than the gain.

There are a lot of room for improvement for Essence One if Asus want to go into higher end audio. Combining Amp inside only make it into more hi-fi than high-end... The good thing is, the E1 will have a longer life, as this DAC/Amp combo would become an additional model instead of replacement...

My 0.02$

Thanks.


----------



## Gandah

I'm absolutely gobsmacked!!
   
  When I initially had my E1 "standard edition" I had the chance to go to a local meet and tryout other peeps setups. What I remember of the dac/amp combos I used with my HPs was the Burson Conductor and the Fostex HP-A8C. Which at the time I was thinking both had better SQ, the Burson more so.
   
  Well today I revisited the HP-A8C, and to my amazement with just SQ alone, E1 "rolled" Muses edition, totally SlayeRd it!! by a rather large margin. Both E1 and Hp-a8c have a very similar sound sig believe it or not, which I think makes it easier to compare SQ differences when doing an A-B test. The biggest difference was overall smoothness.
   
  The Fostex HP-A8C is a great DAC no question, and has many more features than the E1 like DSD, Remote, and SDcard slot just to name a few, and to be fair it was a demo version so I have no idea how much burn in time it has had, so you have to add that in to consideration.
   
  Want to point out, that I'm not bias ether way as my HPs are Fostex and I absolutely love'em
   
  So for what the E1 is, Muses Edition or not, makes it a awesome buy for it's price point, still today


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





gandah said:


> I'm absolutely gobsmacked!!
> 
> When I initially had my E1 "standard edition" I had the chance to go to a local meet and tryout other peeps setups. What I remember of the dac/amp combos I used with my HPs was the Burson Conductor and the Fostex HP-A8C. Which at the time I was thinking both had better SQ, the Burson more so.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for sharing your own impression about the two headphone amps/dacs Gandah!
  Glad you like em both!
  Gives me that warm fuzzy feeling to know that I did the right thing buying the E1 hehe...


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Do you know whether it will be higher up the chain compared to the Essence One?


 
   
  I don't know. The info I have is very limited, and I won't be able to give you any comparison even if I have the STU since I have never listened to any other Xonar before.


----------



## dynamics

I hope you'll be able to take some pictures and post some specs of the new unit as well.


----------



## cssarrow

I'm trying to find a Quad Gang/4 Gang 10K Potentiometer Taper B, but can't seem to find anything with the right spacing and two grounds in rear that is found on the Essence One.
   
  I don't think replacing is going to be a possiblity for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
*Tim*


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> I hope you'll be able to take some pictures and post some specs of the new unit as well.


 
   
  That I can do.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Thank you for sharing your own impression about the two headphone amps/dacs Gandah!
> Glad you like em both!
> Gives me that warm fuzzy feeling to know that I did the right thing buying the E1 hehe...


 
  Yeah absolutely Kenion, E1 is a great Dac combo for what you pay for, muses or not it's one of the best under 2k I feel. I'm sure there is better within the 2k bracket, like the V800 which I've yet to try, and the Conductor, but overall if someone had a budget of 2k the E1 makes the grade for SQ alone.
   
  One thing I forgot to mention in my post, which I feel is noteworthy, the Fostex HP-A8C is one of few dac's that has toslink and coaxial digital out so you can daisy chain 2 dac's together for more refinement and also to use with a dac that may not have USB input, similar to how some high end users use a USB to Toslink transporter like the Audiophilleo 1


----------



## cssarrow

Hello Everyone!
   
  Will have the Schiit Gungnir & Mjolnir tomorrow and to compare with the Essence One Muses.
   
  After my review, i will be auctioning off my modded Essence One.
   
  Comes with four fully assembled LME49710HA on adapters.
  Upgraded PCI-Express Cable
  Nichicon KA Audio Capacitors
*ALL *WIMA FKP Polypropylene Film Capacitors _(2.5% Tolerance)_
  Mundorf 9.5% Silver Solder on nearly all joints.
  6x MUSES01 Op-Amps
  Upgraded Thermal Paste
  Upgraded Custom Heatsink
*RED LED LIGHTS!*
   
  Will go for the same price as the Essence One MUSES _(excl. shipping/pp fee)._
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> Will have the Schiit Gungnir & Mjolnir tomorrow and to compare with the Essence One Muses.


 
  Nice one Tim, the Mjolnir amp is a power unit for the LCD3s or any planar magnetic headphone for that matter, drives them well. Have you re-terminate your HPs?


----------



## Leonarfd

After 4 weeks wait I got my Asus Essence One back, mine was DOA but it took some time since the company i bought it from have been very slow sorting it. Must say this is quite a step up from my STX card the music is so more fuller and such heavy bass. Got the normal edition might upgrade abit if I feel it is any need in the long run. As for channel imbelance there is none here, its balanced at low volume and up from headphone jack and xlr to the speakers.
   
  I had a popping sound coming from the right channel every 10-20sec, it did only occure on USB connection. Had the latest firmware ad driver so I tried a different USB port from USB 2 ------> USB 3 and this sorted the issue.
   
  Really happy for now, and to think this cost less than to import a magni/modi combo or odac/o2 is a joke. I would choose this package everyday over the 2 others. Many thanks to Asus for making a truly good product we actually can afford.


----------



## cssarrow

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Nice one Tim, the Mjolnir amp is a power unit for the LCD3s or any planar magnetic headphone for that matter, drives them well. Have you re-terminate your HPs?


 
  8W of power! muahaha!
   
  I have to cut off my single end 1/4" off my 8 wire cable and re-terminate it with either one 4-pin or two 3 pins.
  Probably going to go with a 4 pin route, as it's most likely lighter.
  I wanted the Valab Rhodium ones, but they probably don't make those in 4 Pin.
  Not many good looking 4 pin connectors...
   
*Tim*


----------



## Gandah

Yeah 4 pin connector is easier to DIY with an existing cable. Two 3 pin connectors are harder and only look good if you are willing to re-sleeve the entire cable


----------



## cssarrow

Not to mention it's heavy and will put strain on the wire


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Not to mention it's heavy and will put strain on the wire


 

 True
   
  I love the look of ViaBlue connectors, it's unfortunate they only make 3 pin


----------



## leeperry

So my friend finally got his Muses ONE, it's a real treat!
   
​   
  I should also state that I've been growing nasty habits with USB cables lately and the ONE still works perfectly fine after you break the 5V pin of the USB cable so don't expect miracles from USB PSU's for that matter, as none will ever occur(breaking the pin would also supposedly improve SQ from what SOTM are claiming).
   
  So my friend got it last week and finally allowed me to play around with it while he's on vacation, so I could get to hear whether all the Muses hype was true(someone on another forum said that it'd kill AD797 to his ears).

 All I can say compared to my Eximus DP1 is that deep bass is back with a vengeance! But I'll give you that the DP1 is pretty bass-shy to begin with(hence the "filter" megabass button on its front panel right under the phone output, reason why many people like to pair it with a beefy tube headamp). Also the SS shape is rather different, the DP1's strong asset is its "live sounding" SS when this Muses01 ONE really excels at mids, and the SS is really completely differently shaped.....I guess opamps rollers are well aware of how opamps can modify the SS perception and when the DP1 colors the SS by breaking it into many 3D layers, the Muses ONE makes it sound more like a "sphere" so to speak...it feels more "natural" but also less expansive.

 Textured vocals(recorded with Neumann U87's for instance) really sound as true to life as it gets, I'm impressed to say the least.

 BTW, the regular and Muses edition are using different pots(B10K>A10K) on the headamp: http://www.taiwanalpha.com.tw/english/p_e_70-1.htm

 Of course, my friend's got the headamp gain switch: 
   


 

 



 With the gain set to high, my favorite 150Ω yamie ortho still sits at 9 O'clock just like with the regular ONE. OTOH, with the gain set to low, it's more like noon, quite a bunch of much required headroom indeed! Stereo tracking appears perfect to my ears(I guess that might also be part of the reason why they went A10K instead of B10K on the headamp).

 Anyway, it seems rather clear that when the regular ONE felt a bit like unfinished business due to its entry level swappable opamps and high headamp gain, the Muses edition addresses both issues brilliantly and the 6moons review conclusion couldn't be more spot-on IMO as I can only agree that if you seek serious bang/bucks, the Muses ONE should seriously be considered.

 You can surely get better sounding gear, but it'll cost ya. I would presume that entering the serious DAC market segment was quite a bet for Asus but the ONE has finally reached maturity to my ears.....I'll roll some opamps(OPA2132P for instance) in the headamp section and will provide additional feedback but getting this kind of performance out of the box under a grand is darn impressive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* after more critical listening, the center of the SS really feels as if the singers were standing in the room...and the texture of the mids is really worth all the Muses hype to my ears. Hi-res sounding and yet not too sterile/clinical sounding, yay /o/

 OTOH, when the DP1 tends to make everything enjoyable the Muses ONE is rather unforgiving on subpar recordings....it will not hide defects in order to provide permanent euphonic enjoyment so you really have to polish your source files. To my ears, the Muses ONE sits nicely between the colored hifi DAC that makes everything dreamy sounding and the harsh monitoring DAC that was designed to make you hear the defects more than anything else....so you get a highly enjoyable reference DAC that neither hides the truth or tries to make defects more audible than they really should be(which become an asset when you realize that the average record has gone through hundreds of 5532/5534's).

 I believe this reloaded ONE puts back into perspective the ridiculous amounts of money ppl can/have to spend on boutique DAC's, headamps, shaman blessed USB cables, battery based PSU's that all together can easily reach the $5K bar when the Muses ONE provides such high bang/bucks for quite a bit under a grand. I finally got to hear what my friend's enthusiasm was all about, and movies/70's female vocals are truly something on the latest offering from Asus indeed. IMHO You have to be seriously demanding/OCD'ed to turn down on what the Muses ONE has to offer, gg Asus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only thing I don't like is the bright LED's as I usually watch movies in a pitch black room but nothing some black masking tape can't fix


----------



## Kenion

Thank you leeperry for posting your impressions here.
  It was a nice read! - "shaman blessed USB cables" made me laugh 
   
  But tell me... why didn't you mention me in your post?! As everyone can see, I was there with you, testing your gear and checking the cables! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




^_^


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> .........
> BTW, the regular and Muses edition are using different pots(B10K>A10K) on the headamp: http://www.taiwanalpha.com.tw/english/p_e_70-1.htm
> .........
> 
> With the gain set to high, my favorite 150Ω yamie ortho still sits at 9 O'clock just like with the regular ONE. OTOH, with the gain set to low, it's more like noon, quite a bunch of much required headroom indeed! Stereo tracking appears perfect to my ears(I guess that might also be part of the reason why they went A10K instead of B10K on the headamp).


 
  It seems that A10K has more logaritmic resistance function opposed to B10K linear function.
  This gives better precision at lower volumes.
   
  Thanks for review. I hope that Muses01 IC's will be my next upgrade.


----------



## leeperry

Glad you liked it! I've polished it a bit and used it to write my first formal head-fi review, so it won't get lost in this big thread: http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition/reviews/8824
   
  Quote: 





kenion said:


> tell me... why didn't you mention me in your post?! As everyone can see, I was there with you, testing your gear and checking the cables!


 

 I've always been a big fan of your tune, ever since it got released.....I've even listened to it hundred more times than I would be willing to admit, hah.
   
  And yeah, without you this review would have never been made possible so thanks again for all the logistical help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ​ ​


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Glad you liked it! I've polished it a bit and used it to write my first formal head-fi review, so it won't get lost in this big thread: http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition/reviews/8824
> 
> 
> I've always been a big fan of your tune, ever since it got released.....I've even listened to it hundred more times than I would be willing to admit, hah.
> ...


 
   
   
  Awwww thank you leeperry! - I'm melting right now... :*D
   
  By the way, your review just got highlighted by Asus http://www.facebook.com/xonar.asus?hc_location=stream
  Congrats mate


----------



## midnightfox

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Glad you liked it! I've polished it a bit and used it to write my first formal head-fi review, so it won't get lost in this big thread: http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition/reviews/8824
> 
> 
> I've always been a big fan of your tune, ever since it got released.....I've even listened to it hundred more times than I would be willing to admit, hah.
> ...


 
   
  Great review, I have also upgraded my current Essence Once with the Muses01 op-amps and I'm loving the sound coming out of them. Definitely a big improvement over the original NE-5534 op-amps.


----------



## dynamics

Great review.  Asus Xonar Essence One Muses is amazing.  I still get awed by how good it sounds.  I'm surprised it's not as popular on headfi or at least it doesn't seem like many members own it here.
   
  I've never heard music presented so realistically as the Muses does it.  The instrument separation is amazing, you can just hear every detail in a very musical way.  Everything just has a 3D sound to it.  I don't know how much better a DAC can get.
   
  For the people that think Asus is just another company that makes computer motherboards, etc.  They need to give the Muses a trial.  It's an amazing DAC.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> For the people that think Asus is just another company that makes computer motherboards, etc.  They need to give the Muses a trial.  It's an amazing DAC.


 
  +1
   
  Cannot agree more!


----------



## leeperry

You're right, I've polished the discussion on SS and jitter in my review a bit as review websites usually compare it to much cheaper gear.......the DP1 is the current benchmark on several aspects in many ppl's opinions(including mine) so I had to make things a bit clearer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dynamics* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I don't know how much better a DAC can get.


 

 There's always something "better" sounding out there but the law of diminishing returns quickly kicks in. The nasty flip side of the coin is that once you've heard better, downgrading hurts (a lot) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I know some people who have heard the 10K€ TOTALDAC in an even pricier surrounding rig and to them everything else sounds like a Realtek now, hah!


----------



## endeeinn

Has anyone purchased from this seller?  He has MUSES01 priced at $140.60 for 3 pieces and free shipping which comes out to a little less than $47 each.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330884009547?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## xneakers

Potentiometer schematic, for you who wants to change with a better one...
   
Here...
   
  Do at your own risk... I just put the picture from above link 
   
  Hope it's gonna be useful 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





basic said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Where is it cheapest to buy a regular essence one right now?
> 
> All i see on google are ones in the $500+ range.


 

 Australia seems to be cheapest, have no clue why. We talked about this a few pages back if your interested
http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-asus-xonar-essence-one-price-354854.html
   
  Good luck
   
  ~Steve


----------



## dynamics

I received my new Muses Edition with fixed gain jumper.  It sounds amazing!  It is much better than the one with the high gain.
   
  And there is no more channel imbalance issue on the speakers side either :O.  I don't know what ASUS did, but the sounds is perfectly balanced on all channels now.  Speaker side and headphone side are running amazing with zero issues whatsoever.  The bass seems to be fuller and punchier too.  It is possible I may have received a defective unit on my first one or that batch the quality control wasn't as good or something.
  
  But whatever issues the Muses may have had ASUS has fixed them.  My search for the perfect DAC is over.  This is perfection and running as it should.
   
  The only thing I might upgrade in the future is the speakers.  But as far as DACs I don't  see anything anytime soon coming that will tempt me to buy it.  I'm in love with the MUSES all over again.
   
  Thank you ASUS.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> I received my new Muses Edition with fixed gain jumper.  It sounds amazing!  It is much better than the one with the high gain.
> 
> And there is no more channel imbalance issue on the speakers side either :O.  I don't know what ASUS did, but the sounds is perfectly balanced on all channels now.  Speaker side and headphone side are running amazing with zero issues whatsoever.  The bass seems to be fuller and punchier too.  It is possible I may have received a defective unit on my first one or that batch the quality control wasn't as good or something.
> 
> ...


 
  Very cool dynamics, you and leeperry both have no issues with imbalance with the newer unit. Food for thought I think I'm going to contact Asus Australia and see what they can do, even though I have the standard edition, can't hurt, got nothing to lose


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





basic said:


> Sadly none of those sites would ship to the U.S.
> Over in America the cheapest is around $500 but with tax and shipping.


 
  Bugger
  Do you know anyone in Australia that could help you out?


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> I received my new Muses Edition with fixed gain jumper.  It sounds amazing!  It is much better than the one with the high gain.
> 
> And there is no more channel imbalance issue on the speakers side either :O.  I don't know what ASUS did, but the sounds is perfectly balanced on all channels now.  Speaker side and headphone side are running amazing with zero issues whatsoever.  The bass seems to be fuller and punchier too.  It is possible I may have received a defective unit on my first one or that batch the quality control wasn't as good or something.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad to know you are enjoying your new E1 MUSES and not having any more issus with the device itself.
  I can imagine both the Denon AH D7000 and the MUSES pair very well together.


----------



## aspher

don't know what's the difference between the lastest muse edition and this


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Glad to know you are enjoying your new E1 MUSES and not having any more issus with the device itself.
> I can imagine both the Denon AH D7000 and the MUSES pair very well together.


 

 I'm loving it and yes the Denon AH D7000 pairs very well with the MUSES.  It is a very good combo and work great together.
   
  I'm pretty sure I had a defective unit and I'm glad I ended up replacing it with one directly from Asus, cause even the presentation is much better on the new unit with bass a lot more pronounced and lush/smooth sound.  Nevertheless, I'm extremely happy with it and resembles a product that's worth $899 price tag or at least it is to my ears.


----------



## Norway

Dinny FitzPatrick @ Innerfidelity
  Asus Xonar Essence One Muses Edition or Why Actually Listening to Gear is Important: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-or-why-actually-listening-gear-important
   
  Can't say I follow him on much of that stuff, but I have not heard the MUSES opamps.


----------



## leeperry

lol he complains about firmware updates, I far prefer this to being stuck with "known issues" or software updates that "require RMA"....breaking news, there is software in DAC's and yes it can be improved if need be. Many DAC's(such as my DP1) can't have their software updated by the end-user so WYSIWYG(and yes the DP1 is amnesic and reverts to USB input and upsampling engaged whenever I turn it back on).
   
  Also, from the pic on the first page, he doesn't seem to have a retail ONE with the improved A10K pot and the headamp gain jumper, so his review doesn't reflect what's being sold in shops.
   
  And he complains that nothing can be stacked on top of it because of the curvy shell, well it's meant to act as a giant heatsink.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> lol he complains about firmware updates, I far prefer this to being stuck with "known issues" or "software updates that require RMA"....breaking news, there is software in DAC's and yes it can be improved if need be. Many DAC's(such as my DP1) can't have their software updated by the end-user and that's it(and yes the DP1 is amnesic and reverts to USB input and upsampling engaged whenever I turn it back on).
> 
> Also, from the pic on the first page, he doesn't seem to have a retail ONE with the improved A10K pot and the headamp gain jumper BTW.
> 
> And he complains that nothing can be stacked on top of it because of the curvy shell, well it's meant to be used as a giant heatsink.


 
  Usually reviews are meant to help, not confuse! 
  The E1 (Muses) like to be (staked) in the upper position...like a king...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





> With that in mind, I reached for the Sennheiser HD 800. WHOA! THAT SOUNDS MUCH BETTER.


 
   
  I liked that part cuz I can agree to that!


----------



## Norway

cssarrow was very active in this thread earlier, but I notice that he has been banned now... 
   
  He had modded his E1 to use red diodes and promised to share which diodes he used. We're talking about all the blue lights including that of the power button. Do anyone know which parts are suitable for the job? They should not be extremely bright


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





norway said:


> cssarrow was very active in this thread earlier, but I notice that he has been banned now...
> 
> He had modded his E1 to use red diodes and promised to share which diodes he used. We're talking about all the blue lights including that of the power button. Do anyone know which parts are suitable for the job? They should not be extremely bright


 

 Yea... I've noticed the same... That's really sad. What did he do to get banned?
  I miss him ((((((((


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Yea... I've noticed the same... That's really sad. What did he do to get banned?
> I miss him ((((((((


 
  I have absolutely no idea, what a shame. He is very helpful and contributed greatly imo...


----------



## mwindham08

He had two separate accounts. Basic, who posted here previously about buying an E1, was him as well.
   
  Head-Fi found out and banned both accounts.


----------



## Gandah

I was of the opinion he moved over to the Schiit Mjolnir thread


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> lol he complains about firmware updates, I far prefer this to being stuck with "known issues" or software updates that "require RMA"....breaking news, there is software in DAC's and yes it can be improved if need be. Many DAC's(such as my DP1) can't have their software updated by the end-user so WYSIWYG(and yes the DP1 is amnesic and reverts to USB input and upsampling engaged whenever I turn it back on).
> 
> Also, from the pic on the first page, he doesn't seem to have a retail ONE with the improved A10K pot and the headamp gain jumper, so his review doesn't reflect what's being sold in shops.
> 
> And he complains that nothing can be stacked on top of it because of the curvy shell, well it's meant to act as a giant heatsink.


 
  Not to mention, if you look at the 6moons review (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/5.html), he stacks 3 of them on top of each other.... So I wouldn't particularly call it impossible to stack. And I do believe that he mentions that it's a prototype/pre-production Essence ONE at the end of the review (If you're referring to the AudioStream review).


----------



## The Monkey

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Also, from the pic on the first page, he doesn't seem to have a retail ONE with the improved A10K pot and the headamp gain jumper, so his review doesn't reflect what's being sold in shops.


 
   
   
  Your comments are well taken, although we clearly have different priorities in evaluating gear. It is worth noting that those are not pics of the actual unit.  But I will try to confirm which version was shipped to me for review, as those differences you mention could result in sonic differences, though I doubt the aggregate impressions would be much different.  Regardless, it is information I'd also like to have so thank you for pointing it out.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





the monkey said:


> Your comments are well taken, although we clearly have different priorities in evaluating gear. It is worth noting that those are not pics of the actual unit.  But I will try to confirm which version was shipped to me for review, as those differences you mention could result in sonic differences, though I doubt the aggregate impressions would be much different.  Regardless, it is information I'd also like to have so thank you for pointing it out.


 
  We all have different tastes when it comes to our own ears and that's a good thing, like I prefer the E1 muses "SQ alone" over the m903 and HP-A8C, that's just me.....where some would say that's ridiculous. So when we read reviews we are just getting the reviewers take, not our own, and listening as the review states quite a few times is the only way to like or not to like
   
  However, I have to ask this question, because you say you have to confirm which version was shipped. To me your review really sounds like the Plus Edition, could this in anyway be true? The Plus is bright and has less bass than the Standard or Muses Edition


----------



## leeperry

Well, rolling the headamp gain between the high & low positions changes SQ quite a bit tbh("high" providing a bassier & punchier sound and "low" sounding thinner & mellower).......and so does the improved pot apparently, so you may wanna try both positions with each of the reviewed phones again IMHO.....and if you don't have the headamp gain switch altogether then this is not a review of a retail Muses unit.
   
  Personally, I believe it's good practice to only post pictures of the reviewed unit in order to avoid confusion...especially when you post an internal picture of a non-retail unit


----------



## turokrocks

ASUS Xonar Essence STU, external soundcard and headphone amp.


----------



## Norway

HOLY ****, WHERES THE BUY BUTTON!?!?!?!?!


----------



## Kenion

I don't really get it.
  What's the difference between the STU and the Essence One? (despite the lack of upsampling...)


----------



## The Monkey

leeperry said:


> Well, rolling the headamp gain between the high & low positions changes SQ quite a bit tbh("high" providing a bassier & punchier sound and "low" sounding thinner & mellower).......and so does the improved pot apparently, so you may wanna try both positions with each of the reviewed phones again IMHO.....and if you don't have the headamp gain switch altogether then this is not a review of a retail Muses unit.
> 
> Personally, I believe it's good practice to only post pictures of the reviewed unit in order to avoid confusion...especially when you post an internal picture of a non-retail unit :wink_face:




Have not confirmed this is a non retail unit.


----------



## The Monkey

gandah said:


> However, I have to ask this question, because you say you have to confirm which version was shipped. To me your review really sounds like the Plus Edition, could this in anyway be true? The Plus is bright and has less bass than the Standard or Muses Edition




Good question. Will try to confirm ASAP.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





the monkey said:


> Have not confirmed this is a non-retail unit.


 

 Got that, but then you'd still wanna try boh headamp gain positions before making such peremptory statements IMHO because they sound very much different from one another IME


----------



## The Monkey

leeperry said:


> Got that, but then you'd still wanna try boh headamp gain positions before making such peremptory statements IMHO because they sound very much different from one another IME




Disagree. At some point one has enough of the flavor of a component and we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that. Some reviews tend to lose the big picture in the minutiae, IMO, and while appealing to some, are unhelpful to others. That's why the more the merrier. Plus, the article links to this thread so the reader has plenty of information at his or her disposal. I'm just another data point (as is everyone else of course). But thanks for your observations, all of which I take seriously.


----------



## leeperry

True dat, but so far we don't even known whether you tried a retail unit and I rest my case that the headphones output of the retail Muses edition sounds drastically different depending on the headamp gain position(especially with dynamic phones). And again, posting an internal non-retail pic you apparently found on the web doesn't help making it any less confusing.....anyway, yes we all have our own opinion and maybe I'd feel the same if I had tried a non-retail unit(which you might have for all we know so far).
   
  Looking forward to an update on your side if you feel it necessary then, otherwise no biggy but before making peremptory statements in public I personally ensure that all options were weighted in. 
   
  Peace


----------



## The Monkey

Quote: 





gandah said:


> However, I have to ask this question, because you say you have to confirm which version was shipped. To me your review really sounds like the Plus Edition, could this in anyway be true? The Plus is bright and has less bass than the Standard or Muses Edition


 
   
   
  Thanks again for asking this question.  I have confirmed that the unit is the Standard Edition, but with the Muses chips installed.  So according to Asus, the only difference is the gain jumper (no mention of attenuator).  This is a retail unit.  I have updated the article accordingly.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





the monkey said:


> Thanks again for asking this question.  I have confirmed that the unit is the Standard Edition, but with the Muses chips installed.  So according to Asus, the only difference is the gain jumper (no mention of attenuator).  This is a retail unit.  I have updated the article accordingly.


 
  Wow ok, I'm sorry but just can't understand your review when you talk about the lack of bass and being to bright, To me with what I hear that's a complete contradiction, but hey if that's what you hear, that's what you hear
   
  My E1 is the standard rolled muses, same as your reviewed unit,  I would say tight punchy deep bass and very smooth detailed mid and highs


----------



## The Monkey

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Wow ok, I'm sorry but just can't understand your review when you talk about the lack of bass and being to bright, To me with what I hear that's a complete contradiction, but hey if that's what you hear, that's what you hear


 
  No need to be sorry.  You hear it differently.  (What phones, btw?)   Some will be more familiar with my tastes and some with yours and will let that be their guide.


----------



## Gandah

Fostex TH900s are my main HP, and I have tried the HD800s, I have T1s here on lone but they are balanced 4pin to my GS-X mk2 so don't know how the T1s sound out of the E1 HP amp


----------



## The Monkey

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Fostex TH900s are my main HP, and I have tried the HD800s, I have T1s here on lone but they are balanced 4pin to my GS-X mk2


 
   
  I don't have a pair of TH900s on me, otherwise I'd give 'em a try.  I'd be interested if you could try the LCD-2 out of it.  I had the T1 on loan a while back.   Not a fan. How do you like it with the GS-X?


----------



## Quaintative

To remove the bias of headphone drivers... would the best way to evaluate a system like this be to test it with electrostatics? Or are all electrostatics just far too expensive (ie. if you had electrostatics, why would you bother with something like the E1?)
   
  What about orthos?
   
  I mean, what else can give a better neutral response to use as a suitable test headphones? IEMs?
   
  We can't really compensate that well for people's ears....


----------



## The Monkey

Not sure what you mean w/r/t testing with stats. Do you mean testing only the DAC section running through a stat amp?


----------



## Gandah

Haven't yet tried the LCD2s but have tried LCD3s twice just not with my own gear
   
  The GS-X is very transparent which gives good instrument separation, also airy like with female vocals you feel their breath between runs especially with HD music, but the best thing its extremely natural in presentation, knowing this gives you the ability to be completely open to any source be it colored or uncolored


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





the monkey said:


> Not sure what you mean w/r/t testing with stats. Do you mean testing only the DAC section running through a stat amp?


 
  Well, yeah. I mean, how do you benchmark a DAC? I mean, there's always the scientific measurement and the subjective measurement.
   
  I figure scientific measures are scientific measures, which are a good start in evaluating quality... and our ears are not scientifically accurate, so beyond a certain point, can scientific measures tell us that a dac is "technically good enough" in comparison to what we can percieve?
   
  Subjectively, wouldn't it make sense to remove the impact of the headphone influencing the sound as much as possible by using auditory tools/headphones/speakers which reproduce the sound as faithfully as possible?


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Wow ok, I'm sorry but just can't understand your review when you talk about the lack of bass and being to bright, To me with what I hear that's a complete contradiction, but hey if that's what you hear, that's what you hear
> 
> My E1 is the standard rolled muses, same as your reviewed unit,  I would say tight punchy deep bass and very smooth detailed mid and highs


 

 I just received the new "revised" version of the Muses edition and I would have to completely agree with you.  E1 Muses is far from from bright.  It sounds very smooth and lush.
   
  However, my previous Muses edition was on the bright side and the bass was kind of thin too.  I don't know if I received a defective unit or what, but that's what it sounded like.  I was thinking it is possible I might have received the Plus edition wrapped in a Muses box? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I never really did open it up to confirm the op-amps.
   
  But whatever issues I had with my old Muses have been resolved.  The new Muses I received directly from ASUS a few days ago has tight bass and detailed mids and highs.  It's a very smooth sound.  Non-fatiguing.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> I just received the new "revised" version of the Muses edition and I would have to completely agree with you.  E1 Muses is far from from bright.  It sounds very smooth and lush.
> 
> However, my previous Muses edition was on the bright side and the bass was kind of thin too.  I don't know if I received a defective unit or what, but that's what it sounded like.  I was thinking it is possible I might have received the Plus edition wrapped in a Muses box?
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah sounds like it was a defective unit going by your comparisons between the supposedly identical units one without the gain jumper, and maybe the E1 in this review is also a defect


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Yeah sounds like it was a defective unit going by your comparisons between the supposedly identical units one without the gain jumper, and maybe the E1 in this review is also a defect


 
  Strangely, after receiving two E1 muses units with the gain switch to replace my Muses edition without the gain, I ended up sending back the 2 units with the gain and keeping the one I had before.
   
  The original sounded  more open,present, better separation & wider sound stage. 
   
  It was airy, less full or mid-bass than the models with the gain switch, but it was refined. It was able to decay better and show more "hidden" details....
   
  With some songs it was like night and day and with others it was there but difficult to hear.
   
  The model with the gain sounded thick and veiled in comparison, too "shy" for my taste.
   
  Maybe others would have / will prefer the model with the gain switch. A fellow Headfier "upside"shared the same finding with me, and I think he ended keeping the non gain version (hope he reads this and confirms....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Gandah

Quite a few mixed feelings, seems to be hit and miss with how this unit sounds. Norway you have two E1s, mate could shed your thoughts on how if any the two units sound?
   
  turokrocks, I remember you had a scratching problem with the volume nob on the second unit, I did not know you also had SQ issues, I'm glad you got it sorted out man


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Quite a few mixed feelings, seems to be hit and miss with how this unit sounds. Norway you have two E1s, mate could shed your thoughts on how if any the two units sound?
> 
> turokrocks, I remember you had a scratching problem with the volume nob on the second unit, I did not know you also had SQ issues, I'm glad you got it sorted out man


 
  Thank you.
  The second replacement was flawless, except I did not like how it sounded, and I kept it for about a week before taking a final decision.
   
  Believe me the difference was  not "Placebo"...
   
   
  At least I am happy now....


----------



## Gandah

I believe you man, there is too many mixed experiences just in the last few pages of this thread, which cancels out any Placebo effect


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you.
> The second replacement was flawless, except I did not like how it sounded, and I kept it for about a week before taking a final decision.
> 
> Believe me the difference was  not "Placebo"...
> ...


 
  Actually, I think ASUS sent me the one without the gain switch again.  I thought I had the gain switch in the beginning, but I don't think I do.  In fact the sound quality improved with the new unit; bass is tighter and just everything else doesn't sound as thin which might explain the reason as to why my new Muses is not "bright" on the bright side.  The new unit seems to have a much more realistic presentation with bass being more pronounced where it should be.  The channel imbalance is gone too.
   
  I thought I had it at first cause it seemed like it gave me more room to control the volume.  But it's really the same old switch and I still leave the volume knob around the 8 o'clock position.
   
  And if there was a drop in sound quality believe me I would notice it as well.
   
  Now, that you mention the SQ drop with the gain switch I'm glad I don't have it.
   
  I am another very happy owner of the Asus Essence One Muses.
   
  I think my first one was likely a defective unit cause I bought the Muses as soon as it was announced and the first store that had it I hit the buy button.  I bought it from some store I can't even remember the name anymore and had never heard of it.  But I wanted it desperately and bought it from them.  I should also mention my first Muses came without the US power cord and I also had to set the voltage on the back to 115 for US.  Also, the usb connection on the back was very loose on the back.  It felt very fragile.  It was most likely one of very first ones out of productions and maybe the quality control wasn't as good or installation of some of the parts wasn't done properly.  But I'm finally very happy with my new one and glad I got it exchanged .  The new one came with a US power cord and the usb fits nice and tight on the back .


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Actually, I think ASUS sent me the one without the gain switch again.  I thought I had the gain switch in the beginning, but I don't think I do.  In fact the sound quality improved with the new unit; bass is tighter and just everything else doesn't sound as thin which might explain the reason as to why my new Muses is not "bright" on the bright side.  The new unit seems to have a much more realistic presentation with bass being more pronounced where it should be.  The channel imbalance is gone too.
> 
> I thought I had it at first cause it seemed like it gave me more room to control the volume.  But it's really the same old switch and I still leave the volume knob around the 8 o'clock position.
> 
> ...


 
  Dy...why don't you give your E1 the "Screw" treatment...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (NO PUN INTENDED)..and see if the gain is there (with a picture).
  Very easy to open...


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





dynamics said:


> Actually, I think ASUS sent me the one without the gain switch again.  I thought I had the gain switch in the beginning, but I don't think I do.  In fact the sound quality improved with the new unit; bass is tighter and just everything else doesn't sound as thin which might explain the reason as to why my new Muses is not "bright" on the bright side.  The new unit seems to have a much more realistic presentation with bass being more pronounced where it should be.  The channel imbalance is gone too.
> 
> I thought I had it at first cause it seemed like it gave me more room to control the volume.  But it's really the same old switch and I still leave the volume knob around the 8 o'clock position.
> 
> ...


 
   
  If that's an exchanged unit it should be with gain jumpers. The volume pot on the gain jumper version is different to standard edition - to allow better range with the gain jumpers. All else is the same.


----------



## Gandah

ASUSXONAR, I know you represent North America, but do you know if the E1 muses edition with the gain jumper and fixed chl balance will be released in Australia anytime soon?
   
  Cheers
  ~Steve


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Dy...why don't you give your E1 the "Screw" treatment...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol.  I won't bother with it.  I know it's pretty easy to open it up.  I'm very happy with the new unit.  I have no complaints.
   
  Whether it has the gain jumper or not, it sure sounds better than the old one.  I wish I would have opened up the old one, cause the bass definitely wasn't right on that one and not too mention the channel imbalance was pretty bad on my unit.  But everything is taken care of now and the Muses sounds amazing.


----------



## dynamics

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> If that's an exchanged unit it should be with gain jumpers. The volume pot on the gain jumper version is different to standard edition - to allow better range with the gain jumpers. All else is the same.


 

 Thanks for all your help by the way too.
   
  I'm extremely happy with the new unit and it sounds amazing.
   
  I couldn't be any happier.


----------



## Quaintative

For anybody wondering about sourcing the thing, I ordered and received a E1 Muses from Compsource. I haven't opened it or tried it yet, but it looks like I got the right thing (if I didn't, I'll note that too).
   
   
  Came with the european cable set....Firmware: 0111, Firmware 1.27.


----------



## upside

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Strangely, after receiving two E1 muses units with the gain switch to replace my Muses edition without the gain, I ended up sending back the 2 units with the gain and keeping the one I had before.
> 
> The original sounded  more open,present, better separation & wider sound stage.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Turokrocks is correct in that I share his impressions of the E1 Muses with the gain jumper as well as the version without the jumpers.
   
  Actually, I have heard all versions of the E1. I started out with a stock base unit then upgraded to the Plus edition. I, like Turokrocks, received an early sample of the Muses without the jumpers and then a final Muses edition with jumpers and the A10 volume control. Each has a different sound signature as would be expected. I don't find the sound signature differences between each subtle in any way.
   
  I can see someone describing the Muses without the gain jumpers as bright and headphones pairing definitely plays a part in the final overall sound. I found the "brighter" Muses sounded great with my HD-650s and Q-701s but a bit too peaky with my HD-800s and T1s. The Muses with the jumpers sounds a bit overly warm and veiled with the HD-650s and Q-701s but better with the HD-800s and T1s.
   
  To each their own though.
   
  Strangely, I still quite like my Plus version for certain recordings - even more than either Muses variety. I know - heresy. One reason I really like the Asus E1 is that you can tailor the sound to your taste and just enjoy the music.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> For anybody wondering about sourcing the thing, I ordered and received a E1 Muses from Compsource. I haven't opened it or tried it yet, but it looks like I got the right thing (if I didn't, I'll note that too).
> 
> 
> Came with the european cable set....Firmware: 0111, Firmware 1.27.


 
  Congrats on your latest purshace.
  Hope you like it
   
  Waiting for your impressions and comments/comparisons.


----------



## Suopermanni

Does anyone know if the which version of the Essence One comes with the gain jumpers? I'm hoping all of them do as I can just fit the MUSES01 opamps to a standard Essence One and save at least $500.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





suopermanni said:


> Does anyone know if the which version of the Essence One comes with the gain jumpers? I'm hoping all of them do as I can just fit the MUSES01 opamps to a standard Essence One and save at least


 
  This version "should" be the only version that comes with the gain:
   
http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_One_MUSES_Edition/


----------



## Suopermanni

Ah, so that's part of what they meant when they said they altered the internals of the Essence One. Hmm...this is going to be expensive as the Muses Edition isn't available in Australia. I have to import from the US.
   
  I'm assuming with the gain jumpers thing that you can change the gain levels?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





suopermanni said:


> Ah, so that's part of what they meant when they said they altered the internals of the Essence One. Hmm...this is going to be expensive as the Muses Edition isn't available in Australia. I have to import from the US.
> 
> I'm assuming with the gain jumpers thing that you can change the gain levels?


 
  Yeah, and to my ears I preferred the non gain version.....its a matter of personal taste:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/2040#post_9393460


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Yeah, and to my ears I preferred the non gain version.....its a matter of personal taste:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/2040#post_9393460


 
  Funny, I have heard the same opinion from a few people now.


----------



## 4Real

Quote: 





suopermanni said:


> Ah, so that's part of what they meant when they said they altered the internals of the Essence One. Hmm...this is going to be expensive as the Muses Edition isn't available in Australia. I have to import from the US.
> 
> I'm assuming with the gain jumpers thing that you can change the gain levels?


 
   
  Great if you import one and the gain jumper is missing 
   
  I'm about to take my money else where, been waiting months for the muses edition to appear in the UK.
   
  Its been on their UK site for months but you cant get it anywhere, stupid


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





4real said:


> Great if you import one and the gain jumper is missing
> 
> I'm about to take my money else where, been waiting months for the muses edition to appear in the UK.
> 
> Its been on their UK site for months but you cant get it anywhere, stupid


 
  What other products are you interested in?


----------



## endeeinn

A couple of days ago I received 6 Muses01 purchased on ebay from http://www.ebay.com/itm/330884009547?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649  and installed them in my Gen1 E1 and I can't believe the difference (I output to my preamp/amp/speaker system - not headphones)   The sound is so much warmer and relaxed it sounds like I have a new system.  Most noticeable are cymbal crashes ... before they actually sounded like crashes (cymbals dropped on the floor or something) now with a cymbal crash you can hear the stick hit the cymbal, the cymbal reverberate and build to the point at which is begins to decay and then decay.   The same for other instruments you can hear the attack, sustain and decay that brings the instruments alive.  Everything just sounds more musical!  HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
   
  Previously I had AD797BR's in IV and thought they were great but all I can say is I wished I never bothered with any other opamp and went straight to the Muses.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> A couple of days ago I received 6 Muses01 purchased on ebay from http://www.ebay.com/itm/330884009547?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649  and installed them in my Gen1 E1 and I can't believe the difference (I output to my preamp/amp/speaker system - not headphones)   The sound is so much warmer and relaxed it sounds like I have a new system.  Most noticeable are cymbal crashes ... before they actually sounded like crashes (cymbals dropped on the floor or something) now with a cymbal crash you can hear the stick hit the cymbal, the cymbal reverberate and build to the point at which is begins to decay and then decay.   The same for other instruments you can hear the attack, sustain and decay that brings the instruments alive.  Everything just sounds more musical!  HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
> 
> Previously I had AD797BR's in IV and though they were great but all I can say is I wished I never bothered with any other opamp and went straight to the Muses.


 
  Another happy user....Congrats and thank you for sharing...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Quaintative

I picked up a Muses last week.
   
  In terms of outputs through speakers, through Foobar, the ASIO output sounds better than KS and then DS to my eyes. There's a discernable difference in the treble to me.
   
  As far as upsampling, SoX oversampling is better than the onboard upsampling.
   
  I haven't opened it yet to check the A10 pot or the gain jumpers.
   
  I feel like a lot of the "testing" I'm doing, I end up focusing on whether or not I can hear the air/atmosphere behind the notes. Is that similar to anyone else's experience?


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> I feel like a lot of the "testing" I'm doing, *I end up focusing on whether or not I can hear the air/atmosphere behind the notes*. Is that similar to anyone else's experience?


 
  That's what I meant by saying you can hear the attack, sustain and delay.   You just don't hear the note, you hear everything around the note.


----------



## Quaintative

I saw some people mention the little hiccups you get in the beginning of tracks when you switch tracks (but not when you let foobar simply follow to the next track).
   
  Anyone figure out how to fix that click? I think it has to do with foobar waiting for I/O?


----------



## dannyhc

Quote: 





endeeinn said:


> A couple of days ago I received 6 Muses01 purchased on ebay from http://www.ebay.com/itm/330884009547?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


 
  How confident are you that what you received are the genuine article?
   
  I own the Plus edition and am in two minds as to whether I upgrade or not.

 Regards,
  
  Dan


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dannyhc said:


> How confident are you that what you received are the genuine article?
> 
> I own the Plus edition and am in two minds as to whether I upgrade or not.
> 
> ...


 

 They are the real deal, I have rolled quite a few opamp combos and the Muses01 off ebay sound the best by a rather large margin, SQ really says it all


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





dannyhc said:


> How confident are you that what you received are the genuine article?
> 
> I own the Plus edition and am in two minds as to whether I upgrade or not.
> 
> ...


 
  The price break might lead one to worry about them being fakes but who is to say the ones on eBay selling for $59 aren't fake.   I admit I was concerned as the seller just started selling these and there was no feedback one way or the other on these items but I figured PayPal would make it right if I wasn't satisfied.
   
  I have no way of knowing if they are the real deal or not and I don't know if anyone knows without some pretty sophisticated test equipment and knowledge.   If they aren't the real deal then they are one hell of an improvement for a fake.   Real or not I'm really happy with the sound and wouldn't return them if I found out they were fakes.  I wish they were cheaper, but cheaper didn't sound as good.  Most telling is the fact that I don't feel to need to do anymore opamp rolling searching for nirvana.


----------



## serg472

Can someone please recommend from their own experience reputable NA store that ships official "proper" Muses edition with the gain switch, not too noticeable channel imbalance issues, etc? Amazon has a few sellers, but the price seems higher than retail (1000 instead of 900). Newegg out of stock.


----------



## mwindham08

http://www.excaliberpc.com/622377/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses.html
   
  They only have 1 left in stock so better hurry!


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





serg472 said:


> Can someone please recommend from their own experience reputable NA store that ships official "proper" Muses edition with the gain switch, not too noticeable channel imbalance issues, etc? Amazon has a few sellers, but the price seems higher than retail (1000 instead of 900). Newegg out of stock.


 
http://www.compsource.com/pn/XONARESSENCEONEMUSE/Asus_46/Usb-Dac-Headphone-Amplifier--Premium-Muses01opAmps-Reproduction-XONARESSENCEONEMUSE/
   
  I got mine here. The only problem was that it came with european cables... which for me wasn't really a problem.


----------



## serg472

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> http://www.excaliberpc.com/622377/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses.html
> 
> They only have 1 left in stock so better hurry!


 
  Thanks, but have you actually bought from them?


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





serg472 said:


> Thanks, but have you actually bought from them?


 
   
  No I have not. I have known about excaliberpc for a couple years though
   
  They have a good ranking with the BBB and resellerratings.com so they seem legit if that is your concern.


----------



## xneakers

Final result... The next frontier probably the Muses...


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Final result.


 

 The real question is: will it blend? 
   
  Ah, your blog is quite something http://jimmyauw.com/ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now to make a new top cover in order to make it WAF compliant again ^_^


----------



## xneakers

Well, if it can match or at least a bit close to Lynx HiLo, then it deserves a complete new chassis... 

So far, the improvement over the standard version is significant. But 200 hours is a long way to go to before we can take the final judgement.

Maybe a set of Muses will be interesting before a new chassis arrives...  and a new stepped attenuator although I experience no channel imbalance, but those green alps is out of my standard.

thanks.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Final result... The next frontier probably the Muses...


 
   
  O
  MG....
   
  Please more pics.....
   
  Any impressions about how this changed the sound?
   
  edit:
   
  quote:
   
http://jimmyauw.com/2013/05/12/asus-xonar-essence-one-e1-finally-its-done/#more-3083
   
 So, how does it sound?
 Well, I was shocked a bit when I powered up the unit but all the controls were not functioning. Only power LED lit up. I quickly realized that I wrongly inserted the cable from the audio board to front panel board. The cable was reversely connected (the connector that should be connected to the audio board was connected to the front panel board and vice versa). Unit powered up, but no function onthe buttons (I started to sniff around to see if I could smell some smoke ha~~~). ****, this gonna be my first failure when modify the gear (knocked the wood!!!). But luckily I realized that and after reversing the cable, everything worked fine (as expected!).
 During first hour, I can hear that so many Cerafine’s sound around. The mid is impressive (where the hell those sibilance?). The low is well controlled (much better than the standard/original). Well, it must be the Black Gate contribution.
 High is very clear, detail, crisp, but still natural and musical. I think Os-Con and Black Gate FK/N combination is DAC supply is well worth combination, plus low impedance Rubycon ZA in internal PCM1795 feedback. No more such ‘hi-fi’ sound as usually heard from the original Asus Xonar Essence One (E1).
 Listening Barb Jungr – Love Letter never sounds so good in my living room.
 I’m still thinking if the final capacitor shouldn’t be Cerafine, but will see after 200 hours of playing. Probably some op-amp will be tweaked a bit.


----------



## Quaintative

I'm not going to quote *xneakers' **w**hole post, but I will say this:*


----------



## xneakers

I think this is a must have upgrade (if you have guts to do it)... The improvement is very significant... I can't hear the original E1 any longer for sure.
   
  Will see how this will compete against Lynx HiLo (at 2500 USD MSRP) later after I pass the 200 hours.
   
  I'm quite sure can improve the headphone out also, but since I have given up with headphone for quite some time, sorry no such test at present time.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Final result...


 
  Man that's hardcore moding if I've ever seen it... Did you design it yourself or follow a plan? ether way looks awesome, wish I could take it for a test drive


----------



## xneakers

Hi Gandah,
  If you follow my blog, I traced one by one (some guides there if you understand what I'm talking about).
   
  This is because Asus use all 25-35VDC capacitor, while on some section, the high quality capacitor only available at 6.3V (like Os-Con or Black Gate NX Hi-Q). But putting low voltage capacitor on high voltage rail will result a 'small party' inside your room  
   
  The DAC section will use max 5 VDC, so 6.3V capacitor should be more than enough. But to find which capacitor that related to that one is another (pain) story.
   
  Thanks to Asus for such high quality PCB and also very well layout of the component. 
   
  It's kind of pain and confusing at first, but well worth the result. 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

My personal mods here Xneakers - Siemens stacked film caps directly on op-amps between -ve and +ve. 1uf is enough. Saves from modding the PCB and provides most of the sonic benefits needed easily.


----------



## xneakers

Hi ASUSXONAR,
Stacked Capacitor is a good one. I use Duelund VSF Cast Silver on my preamp also. Hard to return to original round winding caps one you like the Stacked Capacitor.

But I have a big doubt single decoupling could do that much against all capacitor replacement (and ribbon cable modification). Yes it will improve, but the pain of the original Capacitor still there if we dont remove them. It's kind of waste if we only do that, as I think E1 has so much potential.

I would suggest to change all the WIMAs (maybe to your Siemens or Vishay) but that would be a big pain... 

Thannks.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

I think the ribbon cable mod isn't needed - there's a chance you will worsen the SNR of the unit with those cables in that fashion. 
   
As for the cap mods - the siemens 1uf caps have a very low inductance and impedance. The capacitors only decouple at frequencies where the regulators become ineffective and this will mostly be at higher frequencies.


----------



## xneakers

Hi ASUSXONAR,
  Cheap ribbon cable vs UP-OCC with Teflon insulated is no contest.
   
  What is the insulation of those cheap ribbon cable? I doubt it would be better than the Teflon on the UP-OCC. Not mentioning the plastic connectors which will degrade the sound. Direct point-to-point soldering most of the time will be better.
   
  Worsen the SNR? I doubt such will be measurable, unless your insulation is outrageously bad or you are running several miles of length of wire.
   
  I don't really want to argue, but for 'idiotphile' like me (YMMV), I put the top priority to remove this ribbon cable (also along with cheapo Green Alps). I don't want to remove the Green Alps as I only have 2 gangs DACT. I need to justify the impact to purchase 4 gangs DACT which the cost almost the same with a brand new E1.
   
  The impact? I have used Green Alps on several cheap preamp project and after changing them with DACT or similar stepped attenuator, the different is night and day. This is no brainer answer.
   
  Other plan is to re-wire from the 'ribbon cable' to take 2 channel only as I only use the unbalance out, directly to the 2 gangs attenuator (DACT) and let the other 2 channel for the balance use the original Green Alps. I havent traced in detail but have gotten some of the tracing result on hand, but I think that is very possible to be implemented.
   
  Low inductance doesn't mean good sound (this is 'idiotphile' practice - off course people with degree in Engineering will ROFL reading this). But it's a matter or personal taste and preference, right?
   
  I use mostly Ceramic if your intention is for high frequency decoupling. They are also very cheap and widely available.
   
  See my other DAC project with Sprague Multi Layer Ceramic below. They are one of the best for the purpose (YMMV).
   
  Kudos to ASUS for such great DAC, and with this mod, I believe it can compete into a higher level (at least now I can enjoy more than before). Sorry if this mod is not for everyone.
   
  Again YMMV, thanks for sharing.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

My point is these ribbon cables don't need to be expensive or have teflon to sound good. The spacing and cross coupling of the cables can be a bigger factor than the outer insulation. As you said tweaking isn't always logical, but if one is making arguments that something should be replaced just because it can be or appears cheap..hmmm


----------



## xneakers

Hi ASUSXONAR,
  Those UP-OCC costs around USD 2 per foot and you don't need a mile to replace those 'original ribbon'.
   
  The spacing is not an issue. As if in PCB design, you don't have to wire signal and ground side by side to avoid what you said as SNR. The proper layout and size itself matter. Anyway the cable placement itself very near to the chassis, not floating around crossing high current area. 
   
  Please search for a Pierre Johanet if you want to know about insulation and those impact in sound. Still debatable, but we are doing some experiment locally and there are some interesting finding.
   
  I'm not an expert, but I have heard and compared probably most of the capacitors that I've could get around. So I'm not replacing them because they look cheap (but I test and listen them before judging which to put where).
   
  If I replace because it looks cheap, then the first thing I should do is to change the black chassis to a gold plated chassis. Should that make the sound better? 
   
  I didn't have any intention to say ASUS uses cheap parts (sorry if you feel so). Nichicon KT used on the original definitely 'expensive' for manufacturing point of view. And ASUS did a great job to use that instead of no-brand of cheap XXXXXX brand which you can find in most consumer electronic. So ASUS did a good job. Four thumbs up.
   
  But we are here to share something that could improve - with or without limit. The option will depend on the  customer. If he/she is a regular customer, then he/she will be ok with the stock condition which is quite good at the price range. But if you are a hardcore user, then upgrading the parts could extend the performance to a higher level. And I have to say, E1 has a lot of potential inside that we can dig down deeper.
   
  PS: I worked for ASUS few years ago. I met a lot of great people with strong technical background both in Taiwan HQ in Beitou and also the Shanghai factory in Wai Gao Qiao FTZ in Shanghai. I knEw some colleague in the NA area in after sales department, though I hardly remembered their name (sorry fellas) as we usually met only few times in a year during Service GSM. I knew the core and spirit of the company which was excellent (with all the LSS approach etc). Not mentioning Jonney and Jonathan (rarely saw Jerry) who sometime came by to encourage us with some speech during the meeting (really excellent leaders). Very good and enjoyable company to work with. I admired Xonar line up and quite happy when ASUS decided to jump into multimedia industry. So what's wrong with my mod here? Did I disturb you or your company? I'm a happy E1 user and want to bring this E1 into higher level. What's wrong with that?
   
  One last question, you are commenting here representing ASUS or your personal comment? From my point of view (and surely also from company perspective), if you are commenting from your own view, I would prefer you to use alternate personal name. But if you are representing ASUS and not happy with my activities, just tell me. *I would be more than happy to delete all my post here.* I got nothing from posting here anyway. Just seeing some people trying to upgrade their E1 and I think I can share my experiments.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Hi ASUSXONAR,
> Those UP-OCC costs around per foot and you don't need a mile to replace those 'original ribbon'.
> 
> The spacing is not an issue. As if in PCB design, you don't have to wire signal and ground side by side to avoid what you said as SNR. The proper layout and size itself matter. Anyway the cable placement itself very near to the chassis, not floating around crossing high current area.
> ...


 
  Please keep posting here, as we enjoyed reading your posts and contributions and appreciate all the hard work that went into .


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Please keep posting here, as we enjoyed reading your posts and contributions and appreciate all the hard work that went into .


 
  +1


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Cheap ribbon cable vs UP-OCC with Teflon insulated is no contest.


 
  I agree with the statement, but it could be a great overkill depending on what type of electric information runs through.
  For analog signal or power supply it should be ok, but for digital signalling not.
  Do you know what signals run through E1 ribbon connector ?
  Best regards.
  Damir


----------



## xneakers

Hi Damir,
  The function of the ribbon cable is to jumper the signal from the output of the low pass filter to the green Alps then back again to the final stage of the opamp. As E1 has balanced output, we need 4 gangs volume control here. My tracing result on below picture will explain more.
   
  G means Ground, I means Input, and O for output.
   
  So, yes they carry analog signal.
   
  For $2-3 a foot, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't upgrade it. I will use no more than 6 feet of wire. Off course you can twist them if you are afraid with such crosstalk/noise/SNR/etc. Or if you are really paranoid, you can line up the wires in horizontal side by side to mimic the original ribbon wire. Not a painful job compared with the result.
   
  I think other approach is to put the volume control on the nearby the ribbon cable connector and put a long shaft to the front panel. But there are million ways to Rome, right?
   
  Again YMMV and you can find your own way to improve the performance.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Hi Damir,
> The function of the ribbon cable is to jumper the signal from the output of the low pass filter to the green Alps then back again to the final stage of the opamp. As E1 has balanced output, we need 4 gangs volume control here. My tracing result on below picture will explain more.
> .........


 
  Thanks for explanation. Really there is a place for the highest quality cables, even coaxial (if there is enough space).
  I'll look closer into my E1, it would be easy mod.
  Damir


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *xneakers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> the green Alps


 
   
  Just for the record, the pots are made by Taiwan Alpha


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Hi ASUSXONAR,
> Those UP-OCC costs around USD 2 per foot and you don't need a mile to replace those 'original ribbon'.
> 
> The spacing is not an issue. As if in PCB design, you don't have to wire signal and ground side by side to avoid what you said as SNR. The proper layout and size itself matter. Anyway the cable placement itself very near to the chassis, not floating around crossing high current area.
> ...


 
  You do have a lot to get off your chest 
   
  I am representing ASUS yes. Would prefer people know all the details before they start stripping their units down and voiding their warranty. 
   
  You are free to post whatever you wish. But as it's hard for you to quantify some of these effects, I would urge some caution for those that are reading. That's all.
   
  Post away.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> You do have a lot to get off your chest
> 
> I am representing ASUS yes. Would prefer people know all the details before they start stripping their units down and voiding their warranty.
> 
> ...


 

 Honest opinion; people should know that desoldering components off multilayer pcb is not a trivial job without appropriate tools and skills.
  Best regards.
  Damir


----------



## xneakers

I will make it simple if it's too hard for you for saying this (and you dont have to waste time convincing people to follow your simple mod - though I'm quite sure it will void the warranty anyway, even for small soldering).

FOLLOW MY MOD AND YOU WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY.

clear enough? Though I believe it should have been written clearly in the warranty card, at least for ASUS in my country when I translated those warranty card few years back.

Thanks.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Soldering directly to an aftermarket op-amp won't because the unit remains intact - no modifications to the PCB or surrounding components are allowed from a warranty perspective. The reason I mentioned this in the first place is there has already been one user that tried de-soldering caps and managed to screw it up. Of course that's not your fault or mine, but I do prefer to remind people most of this stuff is not trivial. On top of that, some of these mods don't really "help" in the right sense per se.
   
  Sure that's clear enough. Don't feel I am taking it out on you. There's no need to be aggressive.


----------



## xneakers

You were not mentioning that on the first place 

If you clearly stated: BE CAREFUL GUYS, DOING THIS WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY.

That would be the most elegant way to explain and inform as ASUS rep.

But instead of doing that, you were suggesting/challenging with another way of modding, which I believe for most user, it means you (with ASUS badge), suggesting to mod the card with specific brand of stacked capacitor to improve the sound. 

I can also say, how about if customer doesnt know which pin should be bypassed with your recommended method? This is as 'stupid' as customer who doesnt know that following my mod will void their warranty, right? 

If they plug to wrong pin, blow the opamp. How do you answer that when he comes to your 'Royal Club' service center showing a print of your suggestion in this forum? Customer can easily says, 'I follow ASUS suggestion and now my warranty is void?'

A big NO NO as you are ASUS rep should not recommend any method or specific brand of capacitor, unless it comes from you as personal, but wait, you are wearing ASUS badge here!

I'm not being aggresive, but seeing you always find way to justify yourself that all of your comments based on the good intention to prevent customer voiding their warranty, then I think I should show where did you do wrong and why you should not do that. So you can improve yourself.

This is for your own good, as ASUS rep 

PS: Still remember I sent you PM few weeks ago asking for some tech stuff and you said that you are marketing and didnt really get into tech stuff and refer me to ASUS support. Now within a week suddenly you know a lot about technical stuff, SNR, cable crossing, and even know that my mod wont much help. Now I should say 'hmmm...'  

PS2: Tell us how do you plan to solder your recommended stacked capacitor to your aftermarket opamp and to make sure it wont void your warranty? Dont you ever think it can melt you opamp socket? Still under warranty?

Sorry for (eventually) being (a bit) aggresive, but I think you are just trying to run away and hiding behind the idea to prevent customer voiding the warranty. Because I dont really think you understand the whole story...

Thanks.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

I understand fine Xneakers and I am not running anywhere. 
   
  Yes maybe we need a disclaimer for that too. Plastic will melt if the iron touches it so it is better to solder to an op-amp when it is not in the socket 
   
  I won't recommend any mods without oscilloscope pics again - I think its probably the best way to recommend things like this. You are quite correct.


----------



## xneakers

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> I won't recommend any mods without oscilloscope pics again - I think its probably the best way to recommend things like this. You are quite correct.


 
   
  Hi ASUSXONAR,
  Well, actually you *shouldn't *recommend any mods with your ASUS badge there 
  The idea is to avoid voiding the warranty, right? Not to justify the result.
   
  I think better if you write: *You wont recommend any mods with soldering practice involved* 
   
  Just FYI, oscilloscope is only one thing. There are much complex process if you really want to justify why this sounds like that and why that sounds like this, etc etc etc (even sometime not yet measurable). Not because we don't understand then we shall judge it doesn't make sense (or it's a complete BS). Probably similar when we are watching magician on the show. When we don't know how they do it, we will think they are using 'black magic'. But when we know the secret, then we know it's about how to practice and master the technique.
   
  I believe you have connection to the engineer and R&D. They are absolutely great person to start if you are interested more in this field.
   
  For the sake of knowledge (not only for you, probably also for other), this is a good start to learn (for capacitor sound):
http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_1.pdf
   
  Search for "Pierre Johannet Micro Discharge Interface distortion" if you want to know more how the insulation itself matter, not only the conductor. Unfortunately, mostly in French, but I think in this Internet era, we 'can read' all kind of language. 
   
  PS: I have equipped myself with some equipment. The frequently used one are the oscilloscope (for sure!) and capacitor tester (Sencore LC-102). Some small signal generator and PC based analyzer also helpful to check (as I can't afford a Spectrum Analyzer and Distortion Meter at present time). Sorry if I don't really put all of my result around. I don't think it will bring interest to most readers anyway.
   
  Thanks for coming back on this.


----------



## Gandah

Well I'm over wrestling with my E1 imbalance problem, Asus Australia want nothing to do with fixing or replacing the faulty unit, mainly because every "standard edition" has this problem and if they fix or replace 1 unit than they would be flooded with people wanting the same.
   
  So next dac on my radar is the Audio-gd Master 7
   
  E1 is a great sounding dac/amp combo especially with the muses I've always said this, and I would continue to use my unit if it wasn't for this problem, but I've had enough unfortunately


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Well I'm over wrestling with my E1 imbalance problem, Asus Australia want nothing to do with fixing or replacing the faulty unit, mainly because every "standard edition" has this problem and if they fix or replace 1 unit than they would be flooded with people wanting the same.
> 
> So next dac on my radar is the Audio-gd Master 7
> 
> E1 is a great sounding dac/amp combo especially with the muses I've always said this, and I would continue to use my unit if it wasn't for this problem, but I've had enough unfortunately


 
  Hopefully sooner than later,I will get the Audio-gd 27, and compare our notes...please do not tell anybody, good choice Gandah...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Hopefully sooner than later,I will get the Audio-gd 27, and compare our notes...please do not tell anybody, good choice Gandah...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sure no problem man. Audio-gd products are in well regard with head-fiers and Kingwa, seems like a cool-cat within our community, so I'm looking forward to the new dac


----------



## xneakers

Well, the Audio GD will cost you 4x that the E1, right? 
   
  Regarding channel imbalance, I think ASUSXONAR should be able to help. This is a thing that should be covered under warranty, I think (unless you have tempered your PCB off course).
   
  Thanks.


----------



## mwindham08

I'm replacing my E1 with the Audio-gd NFB 7.32
   
  This thing is huge!


----------



## Gandah

Well yeah it doesn't cost as much as my GS-x mk2, but yes a lot more then the E1
   
  I have asked ASUSXONAR quite a few times about this issue, but ASUSXONAR has said he can only help people in North America, and that's cool I understand I'm not pissed or anything its just the way it is
   
  I actually think its a good thing to have a representative here on the E1 thread, I just wish he could help more of us that live outside N.A.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> I'm replacing my E1 with the Audio-gd NFB 7.32
> 
> This thing is huge!


 
  Yeah the size is one of the cons people talk about a lot, big heavy and power hungry, however they also say SQ outweighs any con 10 fold


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Yeah the size is one of the cons people talk about a lot, big heavy and power hungry, however they also say SQ outweighs any con 10 fold


 
  I have a large desk so it's not a huge issue but I was a little stunned when I pulled it out of the box.
   
  Sadly I have not gottten to hear it yet, my new amp comes in today! so I am looking forward to hearing what it can do.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

xneakers said:


> Hi ASUSXONAR,
> Well, actually you *shouldn't* recommend any mods with your ASUS badge there
> The idea is to avoid voiding the warranty, right? Not to justify the result.
> 
> ...




thanks for your input. i have over 15 years of experience with audio and diy. and thats why i am here representing the asus xonar team - it was their suggestion i handle this account. I know the r&d and pm team quite well and am fortunate enough to work with them in some areas. i am not an engineer but do know that mods do and dont work. I do take feedback to r&d yes - even component choices. Just so you know i am not new to the world of audio and mods 


sorry that my suggestion for not modding the pcb directly and soldering to the opamp bothers you. i suggested it because its an easier route and because i know people like modding. A damaged opamp is far easier to replace than a damaged pcb. ask csarrow who tried cap mods and then got himself banned when he got into trouble. when he started i told him by pm not to but he was resolute and ended up with a paper weight.

Next time i post anything it like this it will be a complete guide.


 nice equipment. if you have any before and after mod measurements please do post them. Some of us enjoy that stuff and its nice to confirm improvements.

Ps we will have some nice news for e1 folks soon.


----------



## xneakers

Thanks ASUSXONAR.

Well actually it's not really inportant for me to know you and your experience, but the most important is what you have contributed to the surrounding. They will judge themselves who you are and what are you. Everyone can write anything about everything, right?

But I dont really think I will post anything related with Xonar here any longer. I think with your 15 years experience, you do can give some mods practice. Well, you are from ASUS, right? Better if they follow the correct source 

Thanks.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Thanks ASUSXONAR.
> 
> Well actually it's not really inportant for me to know you and your experience, but the most important is what you have contributed to the surrounding. They will judge themselves who you are and what are you. Everyone can write anything about everything, right?
> 
> ...


 
   
 Hi,
   
1) Yes they certainly can. We're not here to compare knowledge levels or win contests against one another. Sharing knowledge where possible is always good. Having spent time working with engineers in the past and having built circuits myself, I know that some things can improve sound and measurements while others can make them worse. With mods this extensive and other guys showing interest or thinking of following suit I just thought it wise to mention there are other ways to mod that aren't as risky from a warranty perspective. Sometimes maybe we should provide measurements, too.
   
   
2) By all means, don't stop posting here just because we did not quite agree with one another. Part of the Xonar ethos is to embrace the fact that you guys like to mod things. At the same time yes we do have to consider some things ourselves. If it were not for this community some of these products would not even exist. On top of that, there is stuff I can't quite divulge which shows how much we value this forum and our commitment here - more on that soon.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Ps we will have some nice news for e1 folks soon.


 
  Sounds promising....


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





xneakers said:


> Thanks ASUSXONAR.
> 
> Well actually it's not really inportant for me to know you and your experience, but the most important is what you have contributed to the surrounding. They will judge themselves who you are and what are you. Everyone can write anything about everything, right?
> 
> ...


 
  Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Quaintative

Hi, I'm not sure anyone covered this already (a thread search came up unconclusive), but:
   
  How does the E1 treat HD600 and HD650s directly from the headphone amp section? What about LCD2/3's?
   
  I know the headphone section doesn't go through the muses, would it be better to drive the headphones through the muses speaker out->headphone amp?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> I know the headphone section doesn't go through the muses, would it be better to drive the headphones through the muses speaker out->headphone amp?


 
  Muses are at DAC section so everything goes through them. Signal chain is: INPUT (USB, SPDIF, COAX) -> DAC (Muses) -> OUTPUT (XLR, RCA, Headphone)


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Muses are at DAC section so everything goes through them. Signal chain is: INPUT (USB, SPDIF, COAX) -> DAC (Muses) -> OUTPUT (XLR, RCA, Headphone)


 
  Oops,
   
  Anyway, anybody have experience with how the E1 Muses treates HD600/HD650s and the like?


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> Hi, I'm not sure anyone covered this already (a thread search came up unconclusive), but:
> 
> How does the E1 treat HD600 and HD650s directly from the headphone amp section? What about LCD2/3's?
> 
> I know the headphone section doesn't go through the muses, would it be better to drive the headphones through the muses speaker out->headphone amp?


 
   
  I thought the Muses paired really well with the LCD-2s.
   
  Especially with the LME49710HA's at the headphone outs.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> Hi, I'm not sure anyone covered this already (a thread search came up unconclusive), but:
> 
> How does the E1 treat HD600 and HD650s directly from the headphone amp section? What about LCD2/3's?
> 
> I know the headphone section doesn't go through the muses, would it be better to drive the headphones through the muses speaker out->headphone amp?


 
   
  I have tried the LCD-3's that I have previously owned with the regular E1 (and with modded opamps) but I wasn't that impressed with it.
  I don't think the E1 is a good match with the LCD-3's as it doesen't really show what these headphones are capabale of and in what aspects they are better over the LCD-2, which are easier to drive as well.
  Don't get me wrong, the LCD-3 still sounded great with the E1 but just not as good as they could get with a diffrent amp I have tried previously.
  I think the LCD-2's are the way to go with the E1 in my opinion (and of course the HD-800 which are just a wonderful match with this headphone amplifier!)


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I have tried the LCD-3's that I have previously owned with the regular E1 (and with modded opamps) but I wasn't that impressed with it.
> I don't think the E1 is a good match with the LCD-3's as it doesen't really show what these headphones are capabale of and in what aspects they are better over the LCD-2, which are easier to drive as well.
> Don't get me wrong, the LCD-3 still sounded great with the E1 but just not as good as they could get with a diffrent amp I have tried previously.
> I think the LCD-2's are the way to go with the E1 in my opinion (and of course the HD-800 which are just a wonderful match with this headphone amplifier!)


 
  I have to say I'm not a fan of the LCD 2.2 the soundstage is nearly nonexistent compared to LCD 3 or HD800s, hell I would even say a lot of closed back HPs are better at soundstage than LCD 2.2


----------



## smpie

Guys i'm new to the audio world..
 And i ordered my first pair of expensive headphones ever.
 The T5p's.. previously my max was  $230 for a wireless Senheiser. Kleer technology headphones..
  
 As a ict unix expert i believe in the scientific method. And that psychology plays a big part in all things we do.
  
 Good application of the method and limiting the psychological effect we bring to a test is nearly impossible. And extremely hard to do.. For one there are few people and companies really interested in such research involving blind tests ..Real blind test are really hard to do!!
  
 This get's me to my point..
 i got the Beyerdynamic headphones not just because they sound good ..!
 Hell i have not even heard them, no stores carries them..
 i ordered mine 5weeks ago! and they are not in yet !
  
 So why did i order them? well because i can and they are the best that Beyerdynamic 
 has to offer i guess !
 i wanted closed and as open soundstage as possible..
 perhaps i could have gotten a cheaper model from them and have gotten the same result!?
  
 There is now real way to now ….
  
 And now i'm at the point of buying myself new hardware to complete the package.
 The goal is get audio out of my mac. using iTunes VLC player and perhaps buying the expensive software "Audirvana+" ..
  
 Doing sum research i found out that opamps don't sound different one made in texas is not different from a muses made in china.. (hold on i'm not done yet)
  
 Guys like nwavguy and sites like gearslutz are correct..
 BUT what they both say and heres the kicker the big thing..
 The implementation the circuit next to them give the sound difference.
  
 So what do i care ? Nope i don't because i can not change the world..
 if a company chooses to use expensive opamps like muses 01..
 And then claim that it sounds better and bla,bla,bla..
  
 they can be 100% right and so are the critics , like nwavguy and sites like gearslutz.
 Because the implementation of the opamps can be better balanced and for all intense and per pose be a better product..Using the same parts.. Labor research time also costs $$ ..
  
 if one want's to call it opamps and i want to call it Labor+research+better implantation..The end result can be the same..
  
 But would i hear the difference ? i mean between a muses edition and the previous edition?
 The only difference are the opamps implementation and so on..
 the first one costs $465 and second one $925..
 That's a big difference !!
  
 And that's $$ i'm probably going to spend on audio anyway hahaha..
 Perhaps get the JDS C5 and so on and so on..Consume consume consume baby ..
 Carpe diem !!
  
 So my point ??? pfff 
 Don't know if i have one ..maybe to tired from al the reading and research to make a point. ;-(
 The more i read the more i found out i need to read…
  
 for example wanted to get the Fiio E12 mont blanc..
 But all the reviews claim the soundstage is not that open…
 Contacted JDS Labs for the C5 selling in the EU is not ready yet …Don't want the customs hassle!
  
 So now i guess i will settle for one of the Asus models …
 Simply because i like the method that ASUS uses to present there products on there site…
 As a tech nurd i love Asus hahahah …sorry i'm a slave to my own brain !!
  
 slogans like:
 - Bit-perfect audio support..
 - ADT SDT transfer (see the asus product page…)
 - Balanced XLR output (for the day i get my first LCD2 or HE-500)..
  
 So i now that despite the fact that it can not be proven, that the new opamps are the factor for better sound quality by them self ..i realize that the implementation or the whole package does effect or can effect the SQ..
  
 So where does dis leave me ?? Well really tired and no closer to 100% clarity ..
 i must say i don't know how you all audio guys do it ?
 without getting mad !! to manny choices and to manny variables..
 pfff my it world is much easer …
  
 thanks for letting me speak my mind..it's kind of therapeutic ..
 Head-Fi ..the forum where i save therapy $$ to spend on audio gear !! hahahhaha
 oh life …
  
 greets S.


----------



## mwindham08

If you don't believe in rolling op amps I'm not sure the E1 will be for you. 
  And honestly I think discussions about stuff like this might be for the sound sciences forum.
   
  And the Balanced XLR's are not really meant for headphones so not sure what kind of performance you will get out of them.


----------



## smpie

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> If you don't believe in rolling op amps I'm not sure the E1 will be for you.
> And honestly I think discussions about stuff like this might be for the sound sciences forum.
> 
> And the Balanced XLR's are not really meant for headphones so not sure what kind of performance you will get out of them.


 
   
   
 Well that's exactly my point  
 believing or not  believing is that not in the realm of what i can prove ?
 i usually question myself and my opinions.
  
 i don't think it's sciences per se . But rather a healthy dose of looking in the mirror and asking my self
 Why do you think A is better dan B.
  
 My reasoning is not to fire up a heated scientific discussion..
 But rather hope others have giving the matter some thought and can give me sum advice 
 and sum logic to why A could be Better dan B..
  
 I't sounds like i need an excuse to spend more $$ but i rather spend the correct amount of $$
 on one thing and perhaps more on something else..
  
 i figured that with the combined brain power en experience in this forum this was the only place i can go to for the correct advice and info..
  
 I love reading about gadgets getting them..
 but as you al know .. there are a lot of nice things out there..
 And all of them compete for our attention and not to mention $$ so 
 i will take any help i can get !!


----------



## mwindham08

If you search this thread there are multiple impressions of different op amps if you want to know others opinions.
  There is even a review on the Essence One Muses Edition if you are so inclined.
http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition
   
  But again if you want others to try to justify why they think a certain op amp is better than the other, or if spending more money on op amps is a waste, this is not the thread.
   
  Clearly those who are buying the E1 and buying different op amps have already given the matter some thought and came to their own conclusions.
   
  Here is an entire thread dealing with op amps that sounds like what you are looking for.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/559988/why-do-opamps-sound-different


----------



## smpie

Well thanks for the info i guess.
 never mind i give up..


----------



## smpie

Wait i forget are you telling me that if i would get something like the LCD2 and the HifiMan HE-500
 i can not use the balanced out ???
  
 That's one of the main attraction of the Asus..
  
 So just balanced for active monitors?
  
  
 there is no adapter or something like that one could use?
 perhaps to a 4pin something..or is this just stupid ? perhaps there is no headphone amp signal of something …?
  
 i don't know excuse me ..
   
 oh yeah i already read the review..And i like the 6moons review also..Good positive reviews al over the place for
 all products i'm looking at ..so no issue on there.. yep i even can find them without to much trouble hahahha


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





smpie said:


> Well that's exactly my point
> believing or not  believing is that not in the realm of what i can prove ?
> i usually question myself and my opinions.
> 
> ...


 
  As much as I hate to admit it, I'm pretty sure I buy audio equipment like this not because I can quantify that A is better than B. I bought the E1 muses because of the excellent reviews and because it was noted by people who have heard and tested a LOT more equipment than me - that it is a great deal and great bang-for-the-buck investment in terms of sound quality.
   
  I could afford it, so I bought it.
   
  Now it's making me need a new pair of headphones and speakers. 8 year old SR-325i's, a 10 year old pair of HD590s and some Radio Shack Yamahas are seriously not doing the thing justice because I can hear the detail through the HD590s that I'm missing through the 325s and the yamahas. So I'll buy some floorstanders and maybe a pair of HD600s when I can afford them.
   
  But basically, I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to be one of those guys who's going to be able to test of sets of equipment in multiple permutations. I'm just going to putter around making the best purchases I can possibly make, and enjoy the hobby for what it is: a hobby that I've used to replace the feeling I used to get from performing music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Without destroying my wallet. 
   
  I can't afford the Hifiman He-500s yet, and I haven't heard any Ortho headphones yet, so I'll probably get a pair of HD600s. The resale value on them is really good, so it's a good investment either way. Maybe I'll sell the SR-325i's, but they're such good old friends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Quaintative

Anybody else with an E1.... did you guys notice a difference in the highs when you used the headphone out versus the RCA-->amp--> headphone out? Namely, the headphone out sounds shrill compared to the RCA out?
   
  Is this a real effect or does this lessen as the machine burns in?


----------



## mwindham08

Any differences I heard from the RCA out I attributed to the amp I was using so I really couldn't say for sure.
   
  Does your RCA outs and headphone outs have different op amps? 
   
  I had the LME49710HA's at both RCA and headphone outs and noticed similar changes through the E1's headphone out and through the amp I had connected to the E1.


----------



## Quaintative

Well, both the headphone amp section of the E1 and the amp that I have (parasound Zamp) use torodial transformers, so that part of both designs is similar.
   
  Beyond that, I don't have much to compare design-wise.
   
  I'm using a stock Muses, so I presume this to be my setup:
● Balanced/ Un-balanced I/V:4 x MUSES 01
● Balanced/ Un-balanced LFP: 2 x MUSES 01
● Balanced/ Un-balanced Buffer: 3 x LM4562NA
● Headphone: 2 x LME49600
   
Which is from the Asus website... that's different from the LME49710HA's that mwindham08 has been referring to...
   
I'm not sure what I/V, LFP, and Buffer refer to. Still learning this stuff.


----------



## mwindham08

I wasn't meaning that you need to use the LME49710HA's, or that those come stock, just that I used the same opamps at both the headphone out and RCA out.
   
  You could try placing different op amps at the headphone out though to alter the sound to your taste.
  Since the LME49600 opamps are only located at the headphone out I would guess that is the source of the shrillness.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> Well, both the headphone amp section of the E1 and the amp that I have (parasound Zamp) use torodial transformers, so that part of both designs is similar.
> 
> Beyond that, I don't have much to compare design-wise.
> 
> ...


 
  I will try and explain simply from memory, different opamps in the circuit perform different tasks such as:
   
*I/V* -> Current(*I*) to Voltage(*V*) converters: DAC chips are current output components so they require a I/V conveter, some chips have this converter built in and others use external I/V sections.
  mosthighe endDAC chips dorequire externalI/V sections as this allows more flexibility for design and sound quality development.
   
*LPF*-> *L*ow *P*ass *F*ilter. to put it simply, it filters out everything except the signals you want, which is within the audio bandwidth.  They are typically used to remove the high frequency component/artifacts
  that can be present on the DAC chips output. The audio signal being the lower frequency part of the signal, hence LPF.
   
*Buffer*-> Justbuffers to signal and/or provides level conversion to the signal for output or prior to being sent to another circuit component such as an Amp..etc.
  Some opamp circuit positions will have a very pronounced affect on the overall sound quality/signature and others, not so much.
   
  Hope that helps.


----------



## DMax99

Hi guys,

I have finally picked up an order of E1 from Centre Com in Australia yesterday. It was out of stock so I had to pay a deposit and wait for the stock to come in. At first they said I had to wait for 2 to 3 weeks but then they said 3 to 5 days because apparently they've found out that the supplier has one LAST stock.

I opened it just now with anticipation but to found out that it has a few scratches on the front panel already and out of the 2 accessory boxes, one of them was empty. So my question is, do you guys reckon my unit has been opened and returned before? Or could this be a refurbished item? Or maybe the built process was so poor the unit got scratched while it was being built??

Are there any good ways to find out? I have ask Centre Com before the purchase to see if there is a possibility this LAST stock was a returned or refurbished stock but they said they only sell new stocks.

THANKS!


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have finally picked up an order of E1 from Centre Com in Australia yesterday. It was out of stock so I had to pay a deposit and wait for the stock to come in. At first they said I had to wait for 2 to 3 weeks but then they said 3 to 5 days because apparently they've found out that the supplier has one LAST stock.
> 
> ...


 

 You should return it if it's damaged. Empty box is normal, the extra box is for a region like europe that use different power cables in different areas so its boxed with more than one cable
   
  It's up to you but I would return it and wait for the newer E1s to ship
   
  Good luck
  ~Steve


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> You should return it if it's damaged. Empty box is normal, the extra box is for a region like europe that use different power cables in different areas so its boxed with more than one cable
> 
> It's up to you but I would return it and wait for the newer E1s to ship
> 
> ...




Thanks Steve,

Do you think they will take the return if the scratches are only light scratches? Plus, I'm not sure if they can get anymore stocks, as it's not listed on their website anymore.

bwt...I have just ordered 6 Muses01 from a seller on Aliexpress for about 110 USD shipped (can't wait to get them). The seller also recommended me to get the OPA128SM/883, which he said was the BEST amp!


----------



## dannyhc

That's super cheap DMax, I also registered with the site but was unable to purchase as it said nothing was available.
   
  Let me know when you get yours.


----------



## DMax99

Yeah ill definitely report back as to whether or not this seller is legit. He did send me photos of the importation declaration for of those amps. We also spent quite a long time chatting on the website regarding to these amps... 

I'm going to bring the E1 back to Centre Com tomorrow and see what they say. Even if they can't replace the unit, I think it's only fair if they give me a partial refund. I'm not paying nearly 400 bucks for a scratched unit!!


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Yeah ill definitely report back as to whether or not this seller is legit. He did send me photos of the importation declaration for of those amps. We also spent quite a long time chatting on the website regarding to these amps...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Or you could just contact Asus Australia http://www.asus.com/au/support/


----------



## DMax99

Yeah I have. They said it's very unlikely the scratches would've got there during assembly. They told me to go back to Centre Com and ask them to ask their distributor. 

Anyways... I just got back from centre Com today and they told me they will let me know what the distributor says on Monday or Tuesday. They've also said feel free to use the unit. But I don't think I'll use it at all because it might decrease the chance of me exchanging it for another unit if I actually use it. 

Man... This is tough... It's sitting there in front of me and I can't even use it ;(

I also have a gut feeling that this is not going to go anywhere, they will probably just said it was a brand new unit and bad luck you're stuck with it ;(


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Yeah I have. They said it's very unlikely the scratches would've got there during assembly. They told me to go back to Centre Com and ask them to ask their distributor.
> 
> Anyways... I just got back from centre Com today and they told me they will let me know what the distributor says on Monday or Tuesday. They've also said feel free to use the unit. But I don't think I'll use it at all because it might decrease the chance of me exchanging it for another unit if I actually use it.
> 
> ...


 
  Long story and if you want to know more about this problem go back about 20 pages or so, most E1 standard editions have a channel imbalance including my unit. So if I was you I would be seeing if the E1 you have also has this imbalance, test with a mono track if you can, and for some magical reason you find out it doesn't have the imbalance problem you shouldn't return it and live with scratches
   
  Let us know how you go
  ~Steve


----------



## DMax99

So from what I have been reading which is the whole 143 pages of posts here... The imbalance problem only occurs at low volume right? 

I'm not sure if I want to actually try the unit until I hear back from centre Com next week though. You reckon I should?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> So from what I have been reading which is the whole 143 pages of posts here... The imbalance problem only occurs at low volume right?
> 
> I'm not sure if I want to actually try the unit until I hear back from centre Com next week though. You reckon I should?


 
   
  I have to adjust the balance every time I turn it on, even if last time was perfectly balanced, however for most people its not this severe


----------



## Leonarfd

Must be lucky, my stock version has no imbalance with rca,xlr or headphone out(and this is even on low volume). Got it around the end of february, might have been some changes? or that im lucky.


----------



## Quaintative

Has ASUSXonar made any comments about the channel imbalance problem?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> Has ASUSXonar made any comments about the channel imbalance problem?


 

 No never, however he did say,
  Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Ps we will have some nice news for e1 folks soon.


 
  Whatever that means? Bump!!


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> No never, however he did say,
> Whatever that means? Bump!!




I'm not too sure if this surprise would ever come true since they've brought out a new essence dac amp recently. They might focus on the marketing and support of that amp instead of the e1 maybe?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I'm not too sure if this surprise would ever come true since they've brought out a new essence dac amp recently. They might focus on the marketing and support of that amp instead of the e1 maybe?


 
  The new Essence STU is not a step up on the E1 it fits between the ST and E1
   
  Quote: 





asusxonar said:


> Ps we will have some nice news for e1 folks soon.


 
 Google: define:soon   /so͞on/

  Adverb

 
 In or after a short time: "he'll be home soon".
 Early: "it was too soon to know".
 
 
    Synonyms

 shortly - early - presently - anon - before long
 

   
  Who really knows...


----------



## DMax99

I understand it's not a step up product, but it is their NEW product... So they might focus on that more


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I understand it's not a step up product, but it is their NEW product... So they might focus on that more


 

 Asus has thousands of products and the E1 is there flagship dac..... anyways I'm sick of talking about it


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Asus has thousands of products and the E1 is there flagship dac..... anyways I'm sick of talking about it




Yeah... Let's not talk about it and just wait and see..


----------



## Musashi1

Hey guys,
   
  I'm having some trouble getting bit perfect working on my brand new Asus Xonar E1. I've provided a link below that explains everything I've tried. Some friendly head-fier's have told me to post here and lead back to my original post. That way I don't double post the exact same stuff.
   
  I'd really appreciate any help. I've been pulling my hair out for over a week trying to solve this issue. At this point anything would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/664499/emergency-help-with-xonar-essence-one-amp-dac


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





musashi1 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm having some trouble getting bit perfect working on my brand new Asus Xonar E1. I've provided a link below that explains everything I've tried. Some friendly head-fier's have told me to post here and lead back to my original post. That way I don't double post the exact same stuff.
> 
> ...


 

 Reading your post, it looks like you've done everything right.  This may sound like a dumb question however is sampling turned off?  Also what usb port are you using 2.0 or 3.0?  With my unit 50% of the time the bit-perfect led doesn't light up but is working, to make it light up I just double click the song again.
   
  To make sure you are actually running in bit-perfect, start up a song in Foobar and minimise it, then play some other music on WMP or even youtube, and if you hear both songs playing at the same time ASIO isn't working, or if you only hear foobar then it is working and your led is not
   
  Try it and see how it goes, hope it works out


----------



## DMax99

Got a call from centrecom today promising me for an exchange unit regardless if I have used the scratched unit or not. So i will try out the imbalance issue tonight


----------



## DMax99

So.. I'm listening to the scratched unit now... The first and second clicks with the volume know produced no sound. The third click produced sound and is withsound imbalance (left louder than the right) but tthe imbalance problem seems to go away with the fourth click... But the third click is too soft to be used anyway so I don't think it would be a problem

Another thing I've noticed was how people said that the op amps that comes with the unit has more bass but for some reason I think my fiio e11 and e09k has more bass?


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> So.. I'm listening to the scratched unit now... The first and second clicks with the volume know produced no sound. The third click produced sound and is withsound imbalance (left louder than the right) but tthe imbalance problem seems to go away with the fourth click... But the third click is too soft to be used anyway so I don't think it would be a problem
> 
> Another thing I've noticed was how people said that the op amps that comes with the unit has more bass but for some reason I think my fiio e11 and e09k has more bass?


 
  What headphones are you using? more specifically, what's the impedance of those headphones?


----------



## DMax99

The headphones I have tested so far are the he400 and dt990 pro 250 ohms


----------



## Quaintative

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> The headphones I have tested so far are the he400 and dt990 pro 250 ohms


 
  Huh.... I haven't had any issues with my E1 with 32 ohm grados... I noticed a little bit of an imbalance, but only at lower volumes that I don't use.


----------



## DMax99

quaintative said:


> Huh.... I haven't had any issues with my E1 with 32 ohm grados... I noticed a little bit of an imbalance, but only at lower volumes that I don't use.




Yeah same here with this scratched unit which I'm going to get an exchange for. The imbalance problem is at the very low volume which is not a problem at all, it actually feels quite normal ;p


----------



## DMax99

I tried it with a lower impedance headphone on Wednesday night and can confirm that the imbalance problem is worse. One click down from the comfortable volume will become imbalanced and one click up will be too loud. Such a shame with a good sounding amp. I don't know why they don't put a gain switch on it too. 

Apart from the imbalance problem, I do like the sound of the amp even with the stock op amps atm sounds great, the bass is not overpowering at all and the mids and highes are both very clear. I can't wait for my 6 muses01 to come and compare the sound to the stock op amps


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> _Hehe..._ I want to elect Tim for our own resident E1 Beta tester, for all the modding so far, and his willingness to go the extra mile
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Anyone know where I can purchase the A10K pot? I want to de-solder and replace the B10K. Channel imbalance is driving me nuts.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Anyone know where I can purchase the A10K pot? I want to de-solder and replace the B10K. Channel imbalance is driving me nuts.


 
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/16mm-Alpha-A10K-10K-Audio-Taper-Dual-Potentiometer-Knurled-Shaft-PC-Mount/321772_650041138.html
   
  Good luck M3, and let us know how you go


----------



## Mach3

gandah said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/16mm-Alpha-A10K-10K-Audio-Taper-Dual-Potentiometer-Knurled-Shaft-PC-Mount/321772_650041138.html
> 
> Good luck M3, and let us know how you go




Thanks buddy, I'm gonna order some and let you know how I go.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Thanks buddy, I'm gonna order some and let you know how I go.


 
  Actually I'm not 100% sure on size but the right size A10k pot will be on Aliexpress


----------



## Gandah

If anyone knows the size of A10k pot in the muses edition for Mach3, be much appreciated
   
  Cheers....


----------



## Gandah

Just spent hour or so trying to find what A10k potentiometers are in the muses edition and I have a feeling they are a custom design pot for this unit, hopefully I'm wrong.
   
  ASUSXONAR, could you please shed some light on the A10k pot for the E1, and if a unit with the infamous B10k pots can be DIY upgraded to the A10k, and if the muses edition A10k are custom design pots or not? thank you


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Just spent hour or so trying to find what A10k potentiometers are in the muses edition and I have a feeling they are a custom design pot for this unit, hopefully I'm wrong.
> 
> ASUSXONAR, could you please shed some light on the A10k pot for the E1, and if a unit with the infamous B10k pots can be DIY upgraded to the A10k, and if the muses edition A10k are custom design pots or not? thank you


 
  Really appreciate your efforts Gandah. I got a response from ASUS Australia today. Muses Edition is not available in Australia and he tried to sell me the standard version..... If I can get my hand on the Muses E1 I got a good feeling I can custom mod the standard version with the gain jumper on a small PCB.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Really appreciate your efforts Gandah. I got a response from ASUS Australia today. Muses Edition is not available in Australia and he tried to sell me the standard version..... If I can get my hand on the Muses E1 I got a good feeling I can custom mod the standard version with the gain jumper on a small PCB.


 
  No problem M3, I'm just as curious as you are 
   
  I'm also contacting Asus Australia today in regards to the A10K pots and the imbalance problem, if Asus don't come to the party this time, I will be contacting the ACCC Consumer Ombudsman


----------



## Gandah

So I called asus Australia and this time they just said I will need to consult with point of purchase.... Whatever... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Than I decided to call Asus in north America which were somewhat helpful as I didn't say where I was from. It took ages to talk to someone that knew about the E1, what I found out is the newer batch of all E1 including Standard Edition have the A10k potentiometers
   
  I also have been in contact with the place I purchased from, they said they will need to test the unit, which they are quite welcome to do so, however I don't think they understand that Asus welcomes you to open it up the unit to swap opamps as I told them I installed muses, they were like I don't think Asus would approve
   
  Anyhow.....


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gandah said:


> So I called asus Australia and this time they just said I will need to consult with point of purchase.... Whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Somehow, you will find a solution, just be patient, as I know how frustrated you are .
   
  Hope to hear the good news soon.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Somehow, you will find a solution, just be patient, as I know how frustrated you are .
> 
> Hope to hear the good news soon.


 
  Thanks mate appreciate it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As you know I was going for another dac but money is hard to come by at the mo, so the E1 battle continues unfortunately


----------



## DMax99

I'm waiting for an aune t1 to come, bought it really cheap just for fun and plan to use it for my low impedance headphones. The imbalance problem on the e1 is starting to annoy me a bit.. Lol


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> So I called asus Australia and this time they just said I will need to consult with point of purchase.... Whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I got a good laugh reading your post. But it doesn't surprise me how ASUS is using A10k in the newer E1. They must be copping a lot of bad feedback with the channel imbalance issue.


----------



## turokrocks

The Asus DAC: Xonar Essence One


----------



## DMax99

turokrocks said:


> The Asus DAC: Xonar Essence One




Yeah and I mentioned about the imbalance problem and no one seemed to believe me


----------



## Mach3

Need some insight to a few thing and would appreciate if anyone can confirm the following or comment from their own experience. Last two is a bit off topic
   
  Was looking into buy the HDVD800 AMP/DAC for my HD800 how ever,
   
  -Read in the HDVD800 thread a few people have commented the Shiit Lyr is better than the DAC section of the HDVD800
  (I've heard the Lyr and I prefer my XEO aka Xonar Essence One this is simply my own opinion, you can disagree. So no point getting the HDVD800)
   
  -I currently using the Beta 22 4 channel balance how does this compare to the HDVD600, which is the HDVD800 minus the DAC.
   
  -Planning on upgrading to the Luxman P-700u later on with tax return. Haven't heard much impression on this amp, but how would it pit up against the HDVD600 or the Beta 22 4 Channel Balance?


----------



## Gandah

Wow β22 did you build it yourself? I've read a lot about this amp, the research I did on this amp ultimately led me to to HeadAmp's GS-X mk2 which I love and didn't have to build. I know building your own amp would be more rewarding, but I'm not that advanced yet, maybe one day....
   
  As far as Senn's amps I really don't know sorry, I would say they should pair well with the HD800 you would hope so..... However if going by the results I had with pairing my Fostex TH900 with the HP-A8C it really wasn't very good, I prefer XEO Muses


----------



## Mach3

Nope, bought it pretty much cost price of parts. I was in the process of building a 6channel unit. But I was having great difficulty sourcing the expensive diode used in the amp module. So it was in the back burner. I'm still trying to finish it, most likely sell the 4 channel once I finish the 6 channel. Please note anyone building a balance beta22 the sound quality of 4channel vs 6channel sound exactly the same in balance mode. Only advantage is the single ended as you initialize the active ground channel. I only realised this when I thoroughly read the build guild.

Also, great thing with the beta22 if you build it with large heatsink and large transformers. You can drive efficient speakers. I'm currently using it with a proac studio 100 clone with upgraded capacitors. Crazy, crazy ass sound. Highly recommended.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661816/beta22-with-sigma22-built-by-naamanf-220v

Bought the above unit. Had to change the toroidal transformer to 2 x 240V 160VA.


----------



## DMax99

Alright, so I finally got a replacement unit from Centrecom this Wednesday and also got the time to test it tonight for the first time (been busy with exam studies) and WOW...I am SO HAPPY!  

The imbalance problem at low volume is not there anymore with this replacement unit. I have tested it with 2 of my low impedance headphones (Noontec Zoro and Klipsch x7i) and both of them have NO imbalance problem. The sound is still extremely high at low volume but not imbalance. For some reason I also noticed that the volume knob is a bit TIGHTER to turn on this unit compared to the other one (could be just my placebo though). 

The thing I am really annoyed about the E1 is that the built quality is not very good (not 100% perfect). For those who have read my earlier posts here should know that the reason that I returned my first unit was because there were scratches on the front panel when I first opened the box. I was looking around this new unit tonight and the first thing I noticed was that the power button was not straight but slightly bent towards the top and there is also a dot scratch on the back of the unit too!!!

Oh well, I guess I can live with these tinny imperfections since they sound quite awesome to my ears. 

Now the next thing to do is to put my 6 Muses01 into the unit after my exams. I want to listen to these stock op amps for a bit first so I can compare them to the Muses01 (they came this week too)! 

I will post a link where I got the Muses01 from after I have installed them and make sure they work 100%. They are so much CHEAPER than anywhere else I can find!!!


----------



## Mach3

That's really good to hear DMax99 that your replacement unit has fixed the imbalance issue.
   I'm suspecting the volume knob is tighter because they replaced the B10K pot with A10K in the newer unit as stated by Gandah.
   
  Any chance you take some internal photo to confirm this DMax99?


----------



## Gandah

nice one


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> That's really good to hear DMax99 that your replacement unit has fixed the imbalance issue.
> I'm suspecting the volume knob is tighter because they replaced the B10K pot with A10K in the newer unit as stated by Gandah.
> 
> Any chance you take some internal photo to confirm this DMax99?




Of course I can, but I will probably do it when I am rolling my op amps after my exams (after 2 weeks time). Also, I am not sure what both B10K and A10K are (i'm an electrical noob) so I won't know where exactly to take the pictures of.

Btw...I reckon for those who has an imbalanced unit, you guys should contact ASUS and ask them to get you a replacement unit too!!...Because this imbalance problem should be counted as manufacture design DEFECTS!


----------



## Mach3

Hi DMax99, when you pop the XE1 (Xonar Essence One) open to switch over the opamps. Just photo of where the two volume controls are. They are both green with A10K in black writing. Can't miss. Good luck with your exams


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Hi DMax99, when you pop the XE1 (Xonar Essence One) open to switch over the opamps. Just photo of where the two volume controls are. They are both green with A10K in black writing. Can't miss. Good luck with your exams




Thanks...I will have a look for it!


----------



## DMax99

BTW....Do you guys find that BIT PERFECT through ASIO makes any differences at all? Because to my noobie ears I could not feel any differences


----------



## Mach3

dmax99 said:


> Of course I can, but I will probably do it when I am rolling my op amps after my exams (after 2 weeks time). Also, I am not sure what both B10K and A10K are (i'm an electrical noob) so I won't know where exactly to take the pictures of.
> 
> Btw...I reckon for those who has an imbalanced unit, you guys should contact ASUS and ask them to get you a replacement unit too!!...Because this imbalance problem should be counted as manufacture design DEFECTS!




I can't replace my unit through Asus. Bought it for $250 AUD second hand.  
Can't complain really. That why i wanted to know the source where i can buy the A10K pot. So I can desolder the old pot and replace it with the A10K pot. Bought two via Gandah's Aliexpress link. But I'm not sure it the right ones, still waiting for them to arrive. Will update this thread once I receive them.


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> I can't replace my unit through Asus. Bought it for $250 AUD second hand.
> Can't complain really. That why i wanted to know the source where i can buy the A10K pot. So I can desolder the old pot and replace it with the A10K pot. Bought two via Gandah's Aliexpress link. But I'm not sure it the right ones, still waiting for them to arrive. Will update this thread once I receive them.




Wow... That's cheap... Did you get it from eBay? Actually there was one that hot sold for about 250 shipped. I was so tempted to buy another one as I could've got free pick up that would end up costing me only about 222. 

But then.. That could be an imbalance unit too haha


----------



## Mach3

Local pickup gumtree, came with original box plus opamps set found in the plus version and extra dual mono OP627AU. He lost the receipt, which is why he offered $250 AUD. which is why I want to turn this thing into a beast. I'm placing an order to replace all the caps to nichicon kt > ka series. Power caps to nichicon kw series. I'm still waiting for my muses 01 to arrive


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Local pickup gumtree, came with original box plus opamps set found in the plus version and extra dual mono OP627AU. He lost the receipt, which is why he offered $250 AUD. which is why I want to turn this thing into a beast. I'm placing an order to replace all the caps to nichicon kt > ka series. Power caps to nichicon kw series. I'm still waiting for my muses 01 to arrive




Oh? That's such a good bargain! 

Where did you get your muses01 from? 

Just wondering after I replaced the 6 op amps in the balanced/unbalanced section, should I also swap the 2 in the headphone section too? Would that further change the sound quality?


----------



## palmfish

Subscribed


----------



## Mach3

Bought the muses from eBay.
BTW, DMax99. I saw your post regarding the Melbourne meet. Is anyone allowed to attend, or do you have to setup a stall? I'm keen on going to try out some gear before purchasing.


----------



## Gandah

WHAT!! $120 sorry man but that doesn't sound right are they new or used?
   
  NJR have stated that digikey.com is the primary seller which at the moment only sell muses01 in quantities of 100 at $56 per unit
   
  Also you want to buy your muses at the one place, at the same time because you want all the opamps out of the same batch, so far I've seen 901, 201, and 204, for example my muses01 are batch #204 if one opamp was 901 it would still work but may compromise SQ


----------



## Mach3

I've actually seen 101, I'm told the one I will be receiving are 20x and they are used. Maybe I should of mention that. How did you go with consumer ombudsman Gandah? I'm still no luck sourcing the pot. I think I'm going to email Alpha directly. Anyone know the suitable email contact to this Taiwanese company?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Just wondering after I replaced the 6 op amps in the balanced/unbalanced section, should I also swap the 2 in the headphone section too? Would that further change the sound quality?


 
  Here's a good guide made by Tim aka cssarrow

   
  cssarrow was our resident E1 moder, unfortunately he is no longer on head-fi which is a real shame


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Bought the muses from eBay.
> BTW, DMax99. I saw your post regarding the Melbourne meet. Is anyone allowed to attend, or do you have to setup a stall? I'm keen on going to try out some gear before purchasing.




I'm not 100 percent sure either, I just got invited by one of the organisers who asked me to bring bunch of my phones. So i guess you can't just turn up to listen, plus spots are limited. 

You could contact lin0003 on the Melbourne meet thread and ask him about more details and whether or not any spots are still available


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> WHAT!! $120 sorry man but that doesn't sound right are they new or used?
> 
> NJR have stated that digikey.com is the primary seller which at the moment only sell muses01 in quantities of 100 at $56 per unit
> 
> Also you want to buy your muses at the one place, at the same time because you want all the opamps out of the same batch, so far I've seen 901, 201, and 204, for example my muses01 are batch #204 if one opamp was 901 it would still work but may compromise SQ




Yeah I got them brand new from a guy from china on aliexpress. He seems legit. He showed me the importation declaration document for the op amps he has imported. I guess we'll find out in another week time when I put them in  

Ps. Mine says 901 so I guess they're batch no 901? 

Haha, just because they are cheaper doesn't necessarily mean they're not genuine. Perhaps that seller has lower margin to cover. 

Here are mine:


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Here's a good guide made by Tim aka cssarrow
> 
> 
> 
> cssarrow was our resident E1 moder, unfortunately he is no longer on head-fi which is a real shame




Yeah... Apparently he had 2 accounts, such a shame because he was such a hardcore E1 modder . 

Thanks for the info. Saves me have to look ever the 100+ threads again. I can't believe I've read through all of them before I finally decided to buy one... Haha


----------



## DMax99

Btw... Do you guys have any other dac/amps?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> I've actually seen 101, I'm told the one I will be receiving are 20x and they are used. Maybe I should of mention that. How did you go with consumer ombudsman Gandah? I'm still no luck sourcing the pot. I think I'm going to email Alpha directly. Anyone know the suitable email contact to this Taiwanese company?


 

 Still waiting for PCMarket to get back to me its been over a week so looks like with most business today you constantly have to followup or nothing gets done


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Still waiting for PCMarket to get back to me its been over a week so looks like with most business today you constantly have to followup or nothing gets done :angry_face:




That's what I had to do with centrecom too


----------



## Gandah

ASUSXONAR, I have a question in regards to essence one units with A10K potentiometers
   
  I've been in contact with the place I purchase the Essence one, they say they can't be sure if the replacement unit will have the B10k or the new A10k potentiometers, they also ask if there was anyway of knowing without opening the packaging by S/N or any other way?
   
  Any help will be much appreciated
   
  Cheers
  ~Steve


----------



## DMax99

I'm not sure if the S/N would help as my new replace unit was 1 digit bigger than my replaced unit. Like the last digit of the old one was 1 and the last digit of the new one was 2 and the rest of the digits are the same


----------



## Gandah

The strangest thing has happened, because my unit is getting replaced I've taken out the muses01 and put the original 5532 back in, and now using XLR out to my amp I can't really hear the channel imbalance its still there but very slight in comparison to the muses hmmm.... wonder why..... however imbalance is still the same using built-in HP amp
   
  Could be because muses have a much wider soundstage, it's really the only conclusion I can come up with, but than why is the built-in amp channel imbalance sound the same as when using the muses
   
  WHAT The......


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





gandah said:


> The strangest thing has happened, because my unit is getting replaced I've taken out the muses01 and put the original 5532 back in, and now using XLR out to my amp I can't really hear the channel imbalance its still there but very slight in comparison to the muses hmmm.... wonder why..... however imbalance is still the same using built-in HP amp
> 
> Could be because muses have a much wider soundstage, it's really the only conclusion I can come up with, but than why is the built-in amp channel imbalance sound the same as when using the muses
> 
> WHAT The......


 
  Where is Tim , when you need him.
   
  Nice finding by the way.


----------



## Mach3

gandah said:


> The strangest thing has happened, because my unit is getting replaced I've taken out the muses01 and put the original 5532 back in, and now using XLR out to my amp I can't really hear the channel imbalance its still there but very slight in comparison to the muses hmmm.... wonder why..... however imbalance is still the same using built-in HP amp
> 
> Could be because muses have a much wider soundstage, it's really the only conclusion I can come up with, but than why is the built-in amp channel imbalance sound the same as when using the muses
> 
> WHAT The......




Funny you should mention that. Since swapping the 49720 to opa627 on the headphone buffer. Imbalance issue not as bad as before.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Where is Tim , when you need him.
> 
> Nice finding by the way.


 
   Yes where is he, he would probably know or would find out why
   
  Quote:


mach3 said:


> Funny you should mention that. Since swapping the 49720 to opa627 on the headphone buffer. Imbalance issue not as bad as before.


 
  Interesting hey, the imbalance with the sock 5532 isn't that bad using audio-out pot, however the 5532 SQ isn't that desirable even through the gsx


----------



## Mach3

Update announcement...
   
  I've managed to get the exact part number for the A10K. However, can't order directly from Alpha as the MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) is 1000. So I googled all the Alpha distributors. Out of all the distributor I've emailed so far, one has responded. They said they can source the pot for me, but it's base on MOQ or MOV of $300 USD (Minimum Order Value).
   
  So I guess the only option is to start a group buy. I'm thinking if there at enough people to cover $100-$150 worth of pots I will go ahead. I don't mind wearing cost for future diy head fier who wants to change their pots too.


----------



## Gandah

I'm down for it, however only if the RMA unit doesn't have the A10K pots,
   
  I will know by Monday night if that's ok, cheers for the info M3


----------



## Mach3

Mate, if you send me your board I'll do it for you with mundorf silver/gold solder. But I'm pretty sure, Asus gonna do you right this time and give you one with the A10K pot.


----------



## palmfish

I just found out about the E1 and started following this thread. Im still in the process of reading all the prior posts, but I found out Newegg was selling open box Muses Editions so I ordered one last night on impulse.
   
  Just started reading about the various "problems" that have cropped up and am admittedly a little concerned about quality. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding of the issues:
   
  1. Early Muses Ed units do not have gain jumper (used standard board, not Muses board) and have inferior B10K volume pot.
  2. Channel imbalance (speaker volume only?). Possibly corrected with the "true" Muses Ed with gain jumper and different PCB (A10K volume pot).
  3. Front panel buttons and knobs are plastic and not high quality. Can break or be noisy/grindy.
  4. Requires firmware/software update periodically (not an issue IMO, but a consideration before use)
  5. May be missing accessories and have small cosmetic defects (per NewEgg open box disclaimer - not an Asus issue)
   
  It was significantly discounted from new (and available, since new ones are out of stock) and NewEgg offers a 30 day refund, so I figured it was worth the risk. Ive tried numerous DACs/amps over the years and am excited to see if the Asus does for me what others haven't. So far, the "higher end" units I've tried are the Benchmark DAC1 (too bright/hard/analytical) and Violectric V200 (neutral - no different than my current AVR). Neither one impressed me. Most others I've tried and/or owned (Burson HA-160D, Woo Audio WA7, Violectric V90, Schiit Asgard, Peachtree Nova) were basically the same as the V200 and left me feeling "Meh."
   
  Some additional questions/concerns:
   
  I'll be using my E1 fed by my Squeezebox Touch via TOSLINK or S/PDIF to my HD 800's. Since I'm not using USB (or a computer directly), can I assume that I dont need to worry about firmeware updates?
   
  Im not sure I understand how different gain settings affect the sound signature of the amp (headphones). Given the same listening volume, shouldn't gain only affect noise floor and volume control position, or is it somehow changing the output voltage/current?


----------



## Mach3

Short answer, you don't need to worry about channel imbalance. if you end up with the old version as long as you have receipt, you're entitle to get an exchange. In terms of gain setting. Leave it as is (default is high). you only need to set them on low if you're using sensitive iem etc.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





> 1. Early Muses Ed units do not have gain jumper (used standard board, not Muses board) and have inferior B10K volume pot.
> 2. Channel imbalance (speaker volume only?). Possibly corrected with the "true" Muses Ed with gain jumper and different PCB (A10K volume pot).
> 3. Front panel buttons and knobs are plastic and not high quality. Can break or be noisy/grindy.
> 4. Requires firmware/software update periodically (not an issue IMO, but a consideration before use)
> ...


 
  1.  You can get it exchanged from ASUS.....maybe?? (due to fact you are buying and open box - don't know either way)
  2.  Ditto
  3.  Only one incident reported -- those with no problems don't report no problems
  4.  Firmware updates are not a problem but must be done with a USB1 port ... if "not connected" message, click again without exiting firmware update program....if still a problem try a different USB1 port ... I needed to try several times but it finally worked.  (be sure you follow instructions to a tee)
  5. Only 2 reported ... 99.9999% are cosmetically fine -  with open box, the chance of cosmetic defects increase dramatically.
  OTHER - even if only using TOSLINK you should still update as the firmware update affects all outputs and since you are updating you should update USB as well


----------



## turokrocks

http://www.headfonia.com/the-asus-dac-xonar-essence-one/
   
 *– update Asus Xonar Essence One Muses Edition – *

 The Muses Edition is here and the only thing that tells it apart from the standard version is the black color of the lion graphics on the top of the enclosure. Sound improvements of the Muses edition, however, is not subtle as it clearly trounced the standard edition with its vastly more spacious sound to become perhaps the most spacious sounding DAC I’ve heard in the [size=inherit]KWD 0.29 ($1)[/size]K mark. Along with the more expansive soundstage you also get a flatter frequency response especially to the stock unit. What I didn’t hear is an improved black background and a cleaner sound with less grain: the Muses edition is still guilty of these two offenses. Thanks to Asus Indonesia for providing the sample units.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Ordered the open box Muses from newegg. It has one pen tip size knick on the top but not too bad otherwise. I'm looking for a gain switch and did not see one! Maybe I can send it in for a swap? Sounds great at quick listen. The b10k pot has imbalance at first notch but ok from there with ad2kx.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Ordered the open box Muses from newegg. It has one pen tip size knick on the top but not too bad otherwise. I'm looking for a gain switch and did not see one! Maybe I can send it in for a swap? Sounds great at quick listen. The b10k pot has imbalance at first notch but ok from there with ad2kx.


 
  The gain is a jumper like on a computer motherboard, it's located left of the onboard amp volume pot, 2 blue jumpers you can't miss it if its there, good luck 
   
   
  Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thank you Asus.
> 
> Before Hi Gain:
> 
> ...


----------



## Mach3

Hi *turokrocks*,
   
  Wasn't your first unit MUSES came with the early boards with no gain jumpers and the old B10K pot? As *Mr.Sneis* might need your advice to get his MUSES exchange (*palmfish* included if he receives a unit with the earlier boards)


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Newegg showing no longer available but open box is refund only so no ability to try again really. Asus is a good co. though. If I ask nicely I bet they would let me rma after a half hour or so on the phone. Also to note-in my case open box was really Asus refurbished white box.

Those pics of the gain jumpers is super helpful. Maybe should sticky them if possible! Will double check for them but do not recall them there. The hi lo markings would be dead giveaways.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Newegg showing no longer available but open box is refund only so no ability to try again really. Asus is a good co. though. If I ask nicely I bet they would let me rma after a half hour or so on the phone. Also to note-in my case open box was really Asus refurbished white box.
> 
> Those pics of the gain jumpers is super helpful. Maybe should sticky them if possible! Will double check for them but do not recall them there. The hi lo markings would be dead giveaways.


 
  I've had no love phoning asus for rma here in Australia, however asus north america could be a different story
   
  We could ask Currawong to sticky


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Ok wow I just read many many pages, but not all, of this thread and it took quite some time, I took some notes for myself.
   
  1) Regarding "Old version pcb vs New" - It seems Turokrocks and upside prefer the older PCB with b10k pot and NO gain jumpers.  ROBSCIX also mentioned he has heard this as well.  Any ideas why this would be the case?
   
  2) Changing the opamps for headphone output for instance may help with channel imbalance - I think I could eventually try OPA627 with this one?  I don't feel my imbalance issue is as bad as some make it out to be, I am kinda used to this on headphone amps unless they use higher-end pots TBH.
   
  3) FlemmingBach posted earlier about a passive IV mod that removes the opamps from the equation.  Any more info on that?
   
  I eagerly await to see what palmfish finds when he gets his from Newegg.  I feel like we are of like mind coming from the HDVD800 thread


----------



## palmfish

mr.sneis said:


> Ok wow I just read many many pages, but not all, of this thread and it took quite some time, I took some notes for myself.
> 
> 1) Regarding "Old version pcb vs New" - It seems Turokrocks and upside prefer the older PCB with b10k pot and NO gain jumpers.  ROBSCIX also mentioned he has heard this as well.  Any ideas why this would be the case?
> 
> ...




LOL...yup. 

I expect my E1 to arrive next Tuesday or Wednesday.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Hi *turokrocks*,
> 
> Wasn't your first unit MUSES came with the early boards with no gain jumpers and the old B10K pot? As *Mr.Sneis* might need your advice to get his MUSES exchange (*palmfish* included if he receives a unit with the earlier boards)


 
   
  Sorry for the late reply,
   
  Yes it did , and after 2 new muses with the jumper and A10K, I ended keeping the original (with no Jumper) as I use Xlr (Emotiva speakers) and did not notice any unbalance.
   
  Why did I keep the non jumper version, well to make it short, The muses with the jumper sounded "Capped" to my ears , loosing many details and "Soul".
   
  Asus did replace my Muses directly from HQ as there is no Asus representative here......
   
  I was contacted by  (http://www.head-fi.org/u/350510/asusxonar ) to do the replacement, and he was more than helpful.
   
  Asus have top notch service


----------



## palmfish

Ive read through the entire thread now and dont remember reading about a fix for the high freq roll-off on upsampled/higher rez files. Has anyone heard anything new about a firmware upfrade?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Asus have top notch service


 
  REALLY!!! .....hmmmm I think this depends on where you live
   
  Today I handed in my E1 to where I purchased it, because you can't deal with asus Australia in regards to some components like the E1 unfortunately you have to do it this way, unlike north America it seems where asus does care and has RMA many E1 owners direct
   
  Anyhow I didn't end up with a RMA unit have to wait for there supplier to contact asus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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.......................


----------



## Mach3

Cross off ordering the A10K 
  Got a quote back.. Copped a mild heart attack in the process.


----------



## palmfish

My shipment from NewEgg arrived today. NewEgg described it as an "open box" Muses Edition although it arrived in a plain white box with Europe power cables only - which makes me think it is more likely a "factory refurbished" unit.

It is in cosmetically excellent condition with no marks or scratches that I can find anywhere. I removed the cover and confirmed that there are no gain jumpers and it has "B10K" volume pots.

I have done some preliminary listening and cannot detect any channel imbalance. I am a bit disappointed with the plastic knobs and the amount of play they have between each detent.

Sound wise, I think it sounds good. My first impression is that it is clean and neutral with no emphasis or coloration. Not warm or thin, not bassy or lightweight. Unfortunately, like most other amps Ive tried in my system, I really dont hear any difference/improvement over my Pioneer home theater receiver. Maybe Im just not super discriminating, but switching back and forth between them quickly becomes an exercise in futility trying to detect any subtle differences.

At this point, I think if Im going to buy a dedicated headphone amp, I would be inclined to spend more money and get one with better build quality. I like the sampling rate indicator but I think a product that costs this much should have better build quality. I cant help but think of my old Benchmark DAC1 with its milled aluminum volume knob and outstanding feel.

Oh well, overall I think the E1 is a fine unit for all it does and its price point. Im going to get to know it better over the next couple of weeks and decide whether to keep it or return it.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Cross off ordering the A10K
> Got a quote back.. Copped a mild heart attack in the process.


 
  That's a shame man, I wonder if there is another way of getting them...... however I've had this thought for people like myself who use it as a dac only device, would it be at all possible to just remove the pot itself and somehow solder it up?
   
  The only reason why you would have a pot for the outs is if your using powered monitors which most already have there own volume control, so really its unnecessary, should be just a button to turn if off and on I feel


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> My shipment from NewEgg arrived today. NewEgg described it as an "open box" Muses Edition although it arrived in a plain white box with Europe power cables only - which makes me think it is more likely a "factory refurbished" unit.
> 
> It is in cosmetically excellent condition with no marks or scratches that I can find anywhere. I removed the cover and confirmed that there are no gain jumpers and it has "B10K" volume pots.


 
  Your in North America man so you will have no problem at all RMA for a real muses edition, its been done many times for peeps on this thread, just PM ASUSXONAR.
   
  Good luck


----------



## palmfish

I'm liking the performance of the Muses Ed as I spend more time with it. I'm beginning to sense a slightly tighter, punchier sound compared to my receiver and also a slightly sharper image.

So, to help me decide which path to take, I'm wondering how many others notice the "loose play"on the volume knobs like mine has? It doesn't feel like the pot itself is moving - rather the knob is a bit loose on the shaft. The volume knob play alone is enough for me to return this back to NewEgg.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I'm liking the performance of the Muses Ed as I spend more time with it. I'm beginning to sense a slightly tighter, punchier sound compared to my receiver and also a slightly sharper image.
> 
> So, to help me decide which path to take, I'm wondering how many others notice the "loose play"on the volume knobs like mine has? It doesn't feel like the pot itself is moving - rather the knob is a bit loose on the shaft. The volume knob play alone is enough for me to return this back to NewEgg.


 
  What amp are you running with the MUSES, or is it straight from the MUSES?


----------



## palmfish

I'm listening straight from the E1.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

The volume knobs have notches as you turn them but shouldn't have play imo.


----------



## palmfish

Yes, I feel the detents in the rotation. I'm not talking about the detents, which are soft. My knobs are loose enough to rotate a few mm in either direction with just a light touch of one finger. No resistance from the knob at all.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

That doesn't sound right


----------



## palmfish

Sorry, I meant millimeters, not centimeters... That would be bad!!! (above post corrected).
   
  Can anyone else comment on theirs?


----------



## Pippin76

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Sorry, I meant millimeters, not centimeters... That would be bad!!! (above post corrected).
> 
> Can anyone else comment on theirs?


 
  Mine (that I've had for more than a year) does that too - and I dont think it's a problem tbh


----------



## palmfish

I've gotta say I am more and more pleased with my Muses the more I use it. The differences between this amp/DAC and my other amps weren't apparent at first listen but as I spend more time with it, I'm noticing a level of musicality that I just haven't heard with other amps in the past. I usually fall on the objective side of all things audio but I must admit, the definition, PRaT, bass control, sense of 3D space are all just really enjoyable with the Muses.

I must admit when I ordered it I fully expected to use it for a couple of weeks, be underwhelmed, attribute the positive reviews to FOTM hype, and send it back for a refund. Well, not this time!

Asus clearly put a lot of effort into making this a serious audio component for headphone (and 2-channel) enthusiasts. The performance is what I would expect from a "high end boutique" product (although I think few really deliver), but at a price I think reflects the actual product and not a desire to fill a niche with smoke and mirrors. In other words, I feel for once that I got my money's worth.

I did contact ASUSXONAR about my lack of jumpers and loose volume knobs and he didn't hesitate to arrange a swap for a newer unit. So my hat is off to Asus for having pride in the Essence One and going to the effort to please their customers with support that exceeds expectations.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Sorry, I meant millimeters, not centimeters... That would be bad!!! (above post corrected).
> 
> Can anyone else comment on theirs?


 
  Tighten it up!  Sometimes items work loose during transport or whoever built it didn't tighten it enough!
  The ones I have tested, they are all tight, the only thing you can feel is the detents.
   
  Wait, what is shifting a few mm, the knob itself or is it the POT?


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I've gotta say I am more and more pleased with my Muses the more I use it. The differences between this amp/DAC and my other amps weren't apparent at first listen but as I spend more time with it, I'm noticing a level of musicality that I just haven't heard with other amps in the past. I usually fall on the objective side of all things audio but I must admit, the definition, PRaT, bass control, sense of 3D space are all just really enjoyable with the Muses.
> 
> I must admit when I ordered it I fully expected to use it for a couple of weeks, be underwhelmed, attribute the positive reviews to FOTM hype, and send it back for a refund. Well, not this time!
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats.
   
  I am interested to read your thoughts/finding between the one you have now and the replacement.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have been getting tons of requests to compare the Stock version to the Muses Edition.


----------



## palmfish

turokrocks said:


> Congrats.
> 
> I am interested to read your thoughts/finding between the one you have now and the replacement.




The amp I was using is just the headphone jack of my Pioneer home theater AVRs. As I have tried amps/DACs at home, I have rolled through many amps over the past few years (all solid state) and I have found the differences to be very subtle. Maybe its just me, but I find it very difficult to detect differences and so I have never been blown away before.

No, the Asus didnt blow me away either. It snuck up on me. At first all I could detect was a slightly leaner more controlled bass response. Then as I listened more, I began to notice the Asus sounded more dynamic - if the Pioneer and Asus were both identical polo shirts, the Pioneer has been through the wash 100 times while the Asus is new, if that makes sense. 

The Asus sounds more vivid, snappier, faster, cleaner where the Pioneer sounds a little flat and lifeless. It's a very subtle thing though - I really have to focus to detect it. But then when I turn off the Pioneer and just kick back with the Asus, it just moves me more. The Asus is more musical. I don't mean to saythe Pioneer sounds bad - it's hard to describe subtle differences without hyperbole because it's the only way to express the differences. But the differences are so small as to be near,y imperceptible without extensive listening and focused concentration.

It's a small thing but for me it's worth it. Not to be cliche, but the Asus just has that "toe-tapping" quality that my Pioneers lack. Amd it has it without sacrificing detail or adding coloration/distortion. It just sounds more natural to me - which is kind of hard for me to admit because I am quite an objectivist.

EDIT: Other Headamps/DACs I have owned and/or tried in my home include - Peachtree Nova, Schiit Asgard, Lyr, Objective2, Violectric V90, V200, V800, Burson HA-160D, Woo WA6, WA7, Benchmark DAC1, Grace M901, Cambridge DacMagic.

I have detected differences in frequency response before, but never do I remember noticing the more subjective differences I tried to describe above regarding the Essence One Muses.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Testing differences between DACs can be a bit tougher than one would expect in my experience.  Takes much concentration and time.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Testing differences between DACs can be a bit tougher than one would expect in my experience.  Takes much concentration and time.


 
   
  Absolutely depends on the DAC. I have tried using the Asus DAC output into my Pioneer to see if I can ID which part of the E1 is giving the improvement, but I just can't tell.
   
  I had a listen to the new Bottlehead DAC a few weeks ago and it was easy to tell it from the Benchmark DAC1 I had next to it. Much warmer and richer sounding. Obviously having an analog tube output is the difference there. With Solid State, who can say where each amp gets its "personality?"
   
  I honestly still don't understand how changing opamps can change the sound of an amp. It doesn't make sense to me...lol.


----------



## Shayne

Hi guys new to the forum so treat me a bit gentle for my first post since I have not read all 150 pages and had no idea what I should search for with regard to this question.
   
  I am a new owner of the Xonar Essence One muse and it is working fine.  The question I have is I find it a bit weird that I have volume control of the xlr outputs that I have ran to my a/v pro.  It makes no sense for me to have volume into my volume.  Is this normal, why and what would be the best volume setting to pipe into my avm50v on this little black box?  
   
  Regards


----------



## palmfish

The speaker volume knob is for people using the Essence One as a pre-amp; running line out directly to powered speakers or a power amplifier.

In your case, you don't need to use two volume controls, so just turn the Asus speaker volume knob all the way to max volume. Maximum volume (speaker volume knob fully clockwise) corresponds with standard line level output (2V peak). You'll notice it matches the "normal volume" of your other sources.


----------



## Shayne

Thank you sir much appreciated.


----------



## Gandah

From memory XLR is 4v and RCA 2v peak


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> From memory XLR is 4v and RCA 2v peak


 
  That is correct


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





gandah said:


> From memory XLR is 4v and RCA 2v peak


 
   
  Yup, wasn't thinking about XLR.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The amp I was using is just the headphone jack of my Pioneer home theater AVRs. As I have tried amps/DACs at home, I have rolled through many amps over the past few years (all solid state) and I have found the differences to be very subtle. Maybe its just me, but I find it very difficult to detect differences and so I have never been blown away before.
> 
> No, the Asus didnt blow me away either. It snuck up on me. At first all I could detect was a slightly leaner more controlled bass response. Then as I listened more, I began to notice the Asus sounded more dynamic - if the Pioneer and Asus were both identical polo shirts, the Pioneer has been through the wash 100 times while the Asus is new, if that makes sense.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice write-up palmfish, that's quite a line up of Dac's you've auditioned, and good to see your enjoying the muses edition thus far. It never fails to amaze me just how good the SQ of muses are compared to the standard 5532.
   
  I've also auditioned Burson ha-160, Grace M903, and Fostex HP-A8C and found the E1 muses SQ more to my liking, however with the E1 standard 5532, theses 3 dac's would blow it out of the water
   
  I really want asus to continue there drive into this overpriced market which I feel is better for the end user, although I also don't want to see a monopoly of mainstream companies like Asus out pricing small Boutique companies to the point of no return, which most of us have all seen in other markets


----------



## DMax99

Ok...I finally got the time to change the stock NE 5532 op amps to the Muses01s. 

Firstly I must said that Asus has done a really good job on designing this unit for amp rolling because the screws were so EASY to come off and the case also slides off very easily. The op amps themselves were a pain in the butt to take off though and in the process I have bent the legs on quite a few of them . I have taken the advice of previous posters and put them all on an adapter so it will be easier for me to change them again and again in the future. 

To compare the sound of these 2 different op amps, I have been changing them back and forth with listening to the same song.

This is what I think of the sound differences and I hope those of you that also have the muses01 can tell me if you think the same: 

At first I was really DISLIKING the sound of the Muses01 (still not liking them very much atm), I thought they sounded a bit less detailed compared to the stocks?? However, for some reason I also think that the stock has better sound stage, with more details. I could hear much more details on the little things such as the voice echoing in live concert songs. The Muses01 makes the sound feel like its closer to my ears than the stock.

I have decided to keep the Muses01 in for now because I want to see if I would grow to like them or not. If not, I am going to SELL them!!!:mad:

Oh yeah...and about the thingy behind the volume knob, unfortunately I have the B10K version too and I could also see the gain switch jumper next to it  but can not be changed 

ps. I wonder if there's a way to check the authenticity of these Muses01, maybe the less sound stage and detail is because they are fake??

Here are some photos:


(Opened for the first time)


(Stock NE 5532)


(B10K and gain Switch)


(Muses01)


(Muses01 close up)


(Muses01 on adapter)


----------



## xnz1201

Asus's audio device…well…


----------



## palmfish

Has anyone looked at the Teac units (HA-501 and UD-501)?

The HA (headamp) is dual mono with large transformer, Muses8920 opamps, etc. The UD (DAC) is dual mono with DSD support, dual Burr Brown PCM1795 DAC chips, and Muses8920 opamps.

They seem similar to the Essence One in general thought, component quality, and engineering, etc. Of course the Teac DAC alone wont have the power to drive like the E1, and adding the amp makes the Teac solution twice the price of the E1 Muses (although I would expect it to perform better too).

I just see quite a few similarities between the Teacs and Asus. Perhaps a new "benchmark" for mass produced consumer electronics quality is emerging?


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> I've actually seen 101, I'm told the one I will be receiving are 20x and they are used. Maybe I should of mention that. How did you go with consumer ombudsman Gandah? I'm still no luck sourcing the pot. I think I'm going to email Alpha directly. Anyone know the suitable email contact to this Taiwanese company?







gandah said:


> WHAT!! $120 sorry man but that doesn't sound right are they new or used?
> 
> NJR have stated that digikey.com is the primary seller which at the moment only sell muses01 in quantities of 100 at $56 per unit
> 
> ...


----------



## ROBSCIX

You will see many similarities in higher end gear as many companies follow similar design ideas and reference designs from the companies that make the DAC's opamps..etc.  Why reinvent the wheel when great sounding circuits are easy to find?


----------



## Quaintative

General note to all:
   
  Has anybody checked out/used the new Firmware and Driver for the E1? It's dated 6/19/2013.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Ok...I finally got the time to change the stock NE 5532 op amps to the Muses01s.
> 
> Firstly I must said that Asus has done a really good job on designing this unit for amp rolling because the screws were so EASY to come off and the case also slides off very easily. The op amps themselves were a pain in the butt to take off though and in the process I have bent the legs on quite a few of them
> 
> ...


 

 Hate to break this to you but they look fake the white painted logos looks way too bright, but hey I'm not 100% sure as photos can change colors......however going by your sound impressions really gives it way to think there not real
   
  what headphones are you using?


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> (B10K and gain Switch)


 
  DMax99 Seem like you have the latest revision of the standard XE1. I bet you if you solder on some double row pin headers. You got yourself a bargain MUSES edition.
  I'm currently waiting on my high end desoldering tool to arrive. If you want I'll be more than happy to do it for you. Also, I'll bring my XE1 to the 13th meet at Noisy Motel. That way, you can do a comparision on the NE5532 and the MUSES01.


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Hate to break this to you but they look fake the white painted logos looks way too bright, but hey I'm not 100% sure as photos can change colors......however going by your sound impressions really gives it way to think there not real
> 
> what headphones are you using?




Yeah...that's what I was thinking last night too after doing some research on how they look.

What do yours look like? Where did you buy them from? How much?


----------



## Gandah

I got all 6 muses01 off this ebayer in China
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536
   
  Very expensive but well worth the money I feel


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Yeah...that's what I was thinking last night too after doing some research on how they look.
> 
> What do yours look like? Where did you buy them from? How much?


 
  You can always confirm by emailing JRC who makes them.
   
http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/MUSES/MUSES01.html
   
  Select contact to send them a message.


----------



## Gandah

I maybe selling those muses if the replacement unit still has the imbalance problem or if I end up getting a refund
   
  The supplier sent a email saying asus is unaware of a channel imbalance in regards to the Essence One. LoL yeah right....... then they sent another email asking for links. like What seriously
   
  Quote: "_Hi Steve
            do you have any web links for the issue you are having as our supplier cant find an issue_."


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> I got all 6 muses01 off this ebayer in China
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536
> 
> Very expensive but well worth the money I feel




So in your opinion, they definitely sounded better than the stock? 

What was your exact impression of their sound compared to the stock? 

Ps. How much are you looking to sell them for?


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> You can always confirm by emailing JRC who makes them.
> 
> http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/MUSES/MUSES01.html
> 
> Select contact to send them a message.




Yeah.. That's actually an awesome idea. Thanks. 

Just hope that they will be bothered to reply! ;p

Btw.. When are your muses01 coming?


----------



## DMax99

I had another good listen today comparing the muses01 and stock with the song you're beautiful by James blunt. I must say I'm starting to like the muses01 very much. 

Op amps DO make a difference to sound (to whoever out there that don't believe it). The two sound signatures are definitely different! 

I think I'll quickly describe the difference here (I was concentrating on his vocal most of the time) :

Stock NE5532: 

Sounded more airy, that's probably why I could hear high echoing of his voice at different places within the track. This is what I enjoy most about this amp, make it feel a but more detailed and sort of a live concert feel to it. 

Muses01:

The vocal of James blunt sounded more solid and strong. It also sounded closer to my ears. I think overall the sound was but more defined too! 

So, at this stage I'm quite impressed with them again! It's quite fun to swap op amps and hear the different sound signatures. 

Ps. I've also put them all on adapters so making the swapping really really easy!


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I had another good listen today comparing the muses01 and stock with the song you're beautiful by James blunt. I must say I'm starting to like the muses01 very much.
> 
> Op amps DO make a difference to sound (to whoever out there that don't believe it). The two sound signatures are definitely different!
> 
> ...


 
  I think people need to stop knocking the NE5532 for a 30 year old chip. It's done extremely well for the first opamp design for audio use. Don't believe me, even the highly praised Benchmark 1 DAC uses these 50 cent opamps. They are mass produced, that why they are so cheap compared to the MUSES01. Huge demand = Ultra low cost (NE5532). Niche demand = Ultra high cost (MUSES01)
   
  MUSES01 imo is sonically better than the NE5532 due to implementing pure copper internal connections and current technology design. But 1000x better base on price. NOO.... Much more closer to 5-15% in difference (varies from person to person).


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> I think people need to stop knocking the NE5532 for a 30 year old chip. It's done extremely well for the first opamp design for audio use. Don't believe me, even the highly praised Benchmark 1 DAC uses these 50 cent opamps. They are mass produced, that why they are so cheap compared to the MUSES01. Huge demand = Ultra low cost (NE5532). Niche demand = Ultra high cost (MUSES01)
> 
> MUSES01 imo is sonically better than the NE5532 due to implementing pure copper internal connections and current technology design. But 1000x better base on price. NOO.... Much more closer to 5-15% in difference (varies from person to person).




Yeah I agree, even though they sound different, I really enjoy the airyness of the the NE5532  

They are both different and good sounding amps!


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Yeah I agree, even though they sound different, I really enjoy the airyness of the the NE5532
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's why I love my XE1 so much, if don't like the sound. It mean it time for you to roll them opamps.
  Don't use your wallet to exercise your curiosity, your next upgrade might not be what your after and that could be a costly gamble.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





quaintative said:


> General note to all:
> 
> Has anybody checked out/used the new Firmware and Driver for the E1? It's dated 6/19/2013.


 
  Thanks for the finding ! Going to install.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Thanks for the finding ! Going to install.


 
   
  Cool as, maybe they fix the upsampling issue with the early 15khz cutoff.
  Where the new firmware files? I only see the new firmware upload tool and USB drivers.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Cool as, maybe they fix the upsampling issue with the early 15khz cutoff.
> Where the new firmware files? I only see the new firmware upload tool and USB drivers.


 
  Because it is not a new firmware, it is only a new version of the firmware update tool.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





whit3rav3n said:


> Sadly i don´t hahe the measuring equipment so i coudn´t measure the difference. I can tell you the capacitor types you need though:
> 
> 1x 2200µF 16v
> 2x 1500µF 25v
> ...


 
   
  Weird, I've just changed all my capacitors and notice your values in your XE1 is different..
   
  1 x 1800uF 25V 12.5 x 25 105c replaced with Nichicon HV 1800uF 25V 12.5 x 25 105c
  2 x 1200uF 35V 12.5x 25 105c replaced with Nichicon HV 1200uF 35V 12.5 x 25 105c
  2 x 330uF 25V 8 x 10 105c replaced with Nichicon HE 8 x 15 3.5mm 105c
  1 x 470uF 16V 8 x 10 105c replaced with Nichicon HE 8 x 20 3.5mm 105c
   
  My stock caps are Panasonic FR. I compared them to the Nichicon I bought. Caps I replaced them with are rated to last longer and have lower internal impedance and better ripple current.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Weird, I've just changed all my capacitors and notice your values in your XE1 is different..
> 
> 1 x 1800uF 25V 12.5 x 25 105c replaced with Nichicon HV 1800uF 25V 12.5 x 25 105c
> 2 x 1200uF 35V 12.5x 25 105c replaced with Nichicon HV 1200uF 35V 12.5 x 25 105c
> ...


 
  Interesting they apparently changed the capacities in the newer version. Mine also turned out to be Panasonic FR-s so the upgrade wasn't very useful.


----------



## serg472

Does anyone else hear a hissing sound in headphones while connected through USB and having the headphones volume knob all the way up? It's not there if you never listened to anything (just turned it on), but when you listen to something and then stop - hissing. Lowering source volume doesn't have any effect on it. It's audible starting from around 50% volume.


----------



## Mach3

What headphone or IEM you using?


----------



## serg472

HD600. In ASIO mode looks like it's all nice and quiet. Tried different USB port, same thing.


----------



## DMax99

serg472 said:


> Does anyone else hear a hissing sound in headphones while connected through USB and having the headphones volume knob all the way up? It's not there if you never listened to anything (just turned it on), but when you listen to something and then stop - hissing. Lowering source volume doesn't have any effect on it. It's audible starting from around 50% volume.




No hissing sound for me. Btw, why would you listen to it with volume all the way up?


----------



## DMax99

I have just received the email from NewJRC, apparently the Muses01 I have bought are 100% FAKE. They said only Digi-key stock them, but they don't have any stocks atm.

They have also showed me how to tell between the Authentic and Fake ones.

So please look at this photo and check before you decide to buy any from anyone online:



Hope this helps! Now I have to get my money back from Aliexpress, hope they're as good as Paypal :/


----------



## Leonarfd

That sucks. Always use my MC aswell on the net as extra safety.

The muses opamps i bought where real but i bought them trough my wifes work that got them in China trough an electronic supplier. Still I like the stock opamps more with some headphones that are brighter in sound. Right now a friend is trying them on his Asus one so depending on if he like them or not I will sell them to him.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I have just received the email from NewJRC, apparently the Muses01 I have bought are 100% FAKE. They said only Digi-key stock them, but they don't have any stocks atm.
> 
> They have also showed me how to tell between the Authentic and Fake ones.
> 
> ...


 
  sorry to hear man hope you get your money back, damm scamers


----------



## DMarasovic

Has somebody ordered Muses 01 from this seller ?
*http://tinyurl.com/naww6qf*
  
  The print on their picture looks genuine, but it proves nothing.
  Would be grateful for any info .


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





serg472 said:


> Does anyone else hear a hissing sound in headphones while connected through USB and having the headphones volume knob all the way up? It's not there if you never listened to anything (just turned it on), but when you listen to something and then stop - hissing. Lowering source volume doesn't have any effect on it. It's audible starting from around 50% volume.


 

 What Mobo are you plugging it into, and are you using USB 3.0 or 2.0?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> Has somebody ordered Muses 01 from this seller ?
> *http://tinyurl.com/naww6qf*
> 
> The print on their picture looks genuine, but it proves nothing.
> Would be grateful for any info .


 

 Price says no, looks say yes, who knows
   
  Got my 6 here which are genuine
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab4e35e10


----------



## DMax99

leonarfd said:


> That sucks. Always use my MC aswell on the net as extra safety.
> 
> The muses opamps i bought where real but i bought them trough my wifes work that got them in China trough an electronic supplier. Still I like the stock opamps more with some headphones that are brighter in sound. Right now a friend is trying them on his Asus one so depending on if he like them or not I will sell them to him.




Oh? So you reckon you like the sound of the stock ones' better?




gandah said:


> Price says no, looks say yes, who knows
> 
> Got my 6 here which are genuine
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab4e35e10




Would you say the Muses01 is really worth the upgrade? Because I am sick and tired of hunting down the genuine ones. Who knows which ones on eBay or any other online sellers' are real even though they LOOK genuine??!.


----------



## Mach3

dmax99 said:


> Oh? So you reckon you like the sound of the stock ones' better?
> Would you say the Muses01 is really worth the upgrade? Because I am sick and tired of hunting down a genuine one. Who knows which ones on eBay or any other online sellers' are real.




FYI, when I wrote to NRJ and ask them. Do you have any other distributor besides digikey as they don't have stock. They said they only sell to digikey. The respondent got a little annoyed with me after I sent them a few link of muses01 from ebay, alibaba and Aliexpress. Their response in broken English "The MUSES products at these site are fake. Our MUSES are only sold by digikey. I am sorry that there is no stock of Digikey. 
Please wait for a while." 

I ask them if rs components, mouser and farnell are distributor of their product. Haven't received any replies.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Would you say the Muses01 is really worth the upgrade? Because I am sick and tired of hunting down the genuine ones. Who knows which ones on eBay or any other online sellers' are real even though they LOOK genuine??!.


 
  It seems that it would be wise to sell standard E1 and buy original new Muses Edition.
  Another dilemma is that OPA 2132 at I/V and OPA 2107 at filter sound excellent (for low amount of coins) and without audio comparing it could be wasted money. Has anybody direct hearing experience to compare the impressions ?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Oh? So you reckon you like the sound of the stock ones' better?
> Would you say the Muses01 is really worth the upgrade? Because I am sick and tired of hunting down the genuine ones. Who knows which ones on eBay or any other online sellers' are real even though they LOOK genuine??!.


 
  Yes and no.........I think if you don't have chl imbalance problem than its definitely worth the money no question, muses vs standard is like night and day, for me anyway
   
  However most of us with the standard edition have the imbalance problem which I think is a deal breaker and would say not worth the $59 each on muses, in hindsight I would of got a different dac or Muses edition with A10k pots
   
  As I've said previously my muses maybe up for sale if the RMA unit still has this problem.....still waiting over a week now


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Yes and no.........I think if you don't have chl imbalance problem than its definitely worth the money no question, muses vs standard is like night and day, for me anyway
> 
> However most of us with the standard edition have the imbalance problem which I think is a deal breaker and would say not worth the $59 each on muses, in hindsight I would of got a different dac or Muses edition with A10k pots
> 
> As I've said previously my muses maybe up for sale if the RMA unit still has this problem.....still waiting over a week now


 
  Odd thing is, the channel imbalance issue is only on my headphone out volume control (Left). The main volume control  (Right) has no issue what so ever. I tested my all IEM's via XLR > beta22. What about your Gandah?


----------



## Gandah

Wow other way around for me, main volume pot for XLR is way out compared to headphone volume pot which is slightly out


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> FYI, when I wrote to NRJ and ask them. Do you have any other distributor besides digikey as they don't have stock. They said they only sell to digikey. The respondent got a little annoyed with me after I sent them a few link of muses01 from ebay, alibaba and Aliexpress. Their response in broken English "The MUSES products at these site are fake. Our MUSES are only sold by digikey. I am sorry that there is no stock of Digikey.
> Please wait for a while."
> 
> I ask them if rs components, mouser and farnell are distributor of their product. Haven't received any replies.




Yeah, NewJRC also told me the same thing saying that Digi-key is the ONLY place to buy Authentic Muses01 (outside of Japan):



However, a few emails later, they gave me another Korean website saying that this is company sells genuine Muses01??!!:confused_face(1)::



I have found another seller on Aliexpress and sent the photos to NewJRC regarding to the authenticity of these photos, and they said they looked genuine:



Man, I am bloody confused, because at first they are saying all other Muses01 are not Genuine unless you buy it from Digi-key, then they gave me another Korean company and then they finally also said the photos of the ones from China are also genuine??:confused_face(1):

I think I am going to give up this craziness and stop looking for them online myself. I have asked one of my Japanese friends to hunt them down for me in Japan and see how much they are instead (more chance to get genuine ones there!!



gandah said:


> Yes and no.........I think if you don't have chl imbalance problem than its definitely worth the money no question, muses vs standard is like night and day, for me anyway
> 
> However most of us with the standard edition have the imbalance problem which I think is a deal breaker and would say not worth the $59 each on muses, in hindsight I would of got a different dac or Muses edition with A10k pots
> 
> As I've said previously my muses maybe up for sale if the RMA unit still has this problem.....still waiting over a week now




*[COLOR=FF00AA]So could you please describe this DAY and NIGHT differences to me in more details if you don't mind?[/COLOR]*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have just done another round of comparison of my "fake" Muses01 and the Stock. I ended up keeping the "fake" Muses01 in my E1, because to me they sound way less bright than the stock, and more forward mids (although the soundstage is not as wide as the stock). I find the fake ones less fatiguing to listen to and sound quality is not in anyway inferior too.

NewJRC in one of the emails (see above) also told me that they have also bought some of these "fakes" to do some research on. I wonder why and whether if they have found it to sound better than the original ones...lol...

I guess at the end of the day, if I get full refund successfully I will still be very happy because I get to keep 6 free op amps that have pretty good sounding quality


----------



## palmfish

I personally would not use the fakes.
   
  You have no idea what they are - specs, temperatures, etc. You could possibly damage your E1.
   
  Have you contacted the seller? Aliexpress?


----------



## DMax99

palmfish said:


> I personally would not use the fakes.
> 
> You have no idea what they are - specs, temperatures, etc. You could possibly damage your E1.
> 
> Have you contacted the seller? Aliexpress?




Yeah I have. Do you reckon? But I have been using them for quite a few hours now and the E1 is still fine.


----------



## palmfish

Oh! Im sure its fine. I just wouldnt take the chance.

Sure raises questions about the validity of opamp swapping and expectation bias (hearing a can of worms peeling open... )


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> *So could you please describe this DAY and NIGHT differences to me in more details if you don't mind?*


 
  Everything is better, wider soundstage, refined mids, more revealing detail that doesn't feel like ice-picks hammering your ears after a long session, more controlled refined bottom end, better Instrument representation and placement, Music is less veiled


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Everything is better, wider soundstage, refined mids, more revealing detail that doesn't feel like ice-picks hammering your ears after a long session, more controlled refined bottom end, better Instrument representation and placement, Music is less veiled




Hmm... That sounds really nice but I don't know if it's really worth the 50 bucks a piece for it ;/


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Hmm... That sounds really nice but I don't know if it's really worth the 50 bucks a piece for it ;/


 
  Get your money back first then decide if you want to buy the genuine muses. I think they are worth $59 each because if I had to buy a better SQ dac *"Talking SQ Alone"* it would be 2k+ going by the dac's I have previously auditioned
   
  If I do end up selling off my muses they will be going half the price I paid, so $30 each.........however only if the RMA unit still has the problem, which is taking for ever sheeesh.......


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Get your money back first then decide if you want to buy the genuine muses. I think they are worth $59 each because if I had to buy a better SQ dac *"Talking SQ Alone"* it would be 2k+ going by the dac's I have previously auditioned
> 
> If I do end up selling off my muses they will be going half the price I paid, so $30 each.........however only if the RMA unit still has the problem, which is taking for ever sheeesh.......




nuh...I don't think it's worth the money, that's "59x6 = $354!!!"

If you decided to sell your Muses01, I don't mind getting them for $150


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> nuh...I don't think it's worth the money, that's "59x6 = $354!!!"
> 
> If you decided to sell your Muses01, I don't mind getting them for $150


 
  Np going by more than half the people on this thread with channel imbalance problems I can't see why the RMA unit being anything different, so I probably will be selling the muses


----------



## Leonarfd

dmax99 said:


> nuh...I don't think it's worth the money, that's "59x6 = $354!!!"
> 
> If you decided to sell your Muses01, I don't mind getting them for $150



 
 ++ For me it was more around 260$ but I would not call it worth it thats why im selling them, also with the T1 im buying I prefer the stock opams.


----------



## DMax99

leonarfd said:


> ++ For me it was more around 260$ but I would not call it worth it thats why im selling them, also with the T1 im buying I prefer the stock opams.




That's why I am giving up on the Muses01, don't think it's worth the $200+ for a little bit of sound change


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





leonarfd said:


> ++ For me it was more around 260$ but I would not call it worth it thats why im selling them, also with the T1 im buying I prefer the stock opams.


 
  Sorry Leonarfd, are you 100% sure you have genuine muses? to say you prefer stock flabby bottom end, no detail small soundstage, is just ridiculous for most people who have the muses
   
  If you do that's fine I just fined it very hard to believe


----------



## Leonarfd

I know it is the real deal Gandah as Ive also tested a genuine Asus Muses edition to check if it sounds the same as thestock version with the opams(bought the opams before I got the Stock version in house around february I think), the difference betwean the stock and muses is there but its not big. I prefer to use more money on a new good headphone than getting that little extra in some opams, with my hd600 and Mad Dog I prefered the muses, but with k701 and dt880 I prefer the stock version. Btw this is when im using the headphone out of the one, might be I would think different if I only used the dac of the one. I got no amp atm I prefer more than the one inside the One, will be getting a otl amp soon for my next buy the t1.


----------



## turokrocks

Guys, Muses made the E1 more "Musical" in lame words.
   
  Much more enjoyable, which makes you close your eyes and transcends your soul with the music.
   
  It makes me smile every time I listen to a track.....We should not forget, its all about enjoying our music.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





leonarfd said:


> I know it is the real deal Gandah as Ive also tested a genuine Asus Muses edition to check if it sounds the same as thestock version with the opams(bought the opams before I got the Stock version in house around february I think), the difference betwean the stock and muses is there but its not big. I prefer to use more money on a new good headphone than getting that little extra in some opams, with my hd600 and Mad Dog I prefered the muses, but with k701 and dt880 I prefer the stock version. Btw this is when im using the headphone out of the one, might be I would think different if I only used the dac of the one. I got no amp atm I prefer more than the one inside the One, will be getting a otl amp soon for my next buy the t1.


 
  fair enough, your the first person I know of who thinks the gap is small


----------



## DMax99

Muses01 must be the most expensive op amp out there right?


----------



## DMax99

"it clearly trounced the standard edition with its vastly more spacious sound to become perhaps the most spacious sounding DAC I’ve heard in the $1K mark. Along with the more expansive soundstage you also get a flatter frequency response especially to the stock unit. What I didn’t hear is an improved black background and a cleaner sound with less grain: the Muses edition is still guilty of these two offenses." 

From what headphonia has described, the only difference between the muses01 and the stocks are that they provides wider soundstage and flatter frequency response.


----------



## dannyhc

I own the Muses, I started off stock, then Plus Edition and finally the Muses01.

I'm normally not one to song and dance, but the Muses opamps deserve worldwide recognition as the greatest contribution to audio reproduction.

Every time my system fires up these little delights have me turning Japanese in response to their amazing sound.

I am going to buy 11 of these and swap every one on my Xonar DAC as well as another three for my Xonar ST.

Well done Asus and JRC I cannot possibly believe it can get any better.


----------



## DMax99

dannyhc said:


> I own the Muses, I started off stock, then Plus Edition and finally the Muses01.
> 
> I'm normally not one to song and dance, but the Muses opamps deserve worldwide recognition as the greatest contribution to audio reproduction.
> 
> ...




Wow, you must be one rich person Haha.. 11 muses01 is over 600 bucks! That's like a new muses01 E1


----------



## Gandah

Has anyone tried muses in ether HP amp or XLR? I would be curious in impressions if anyone has


----------



## mwindham08

I used the E1 as an amp, and later as a dac to my woo audio wa2. 
  In both instances I preferred the muses over the stock. 
   
  II also preferred the muses with the T1's and the lcd-2s.
   
  Just goes to show you how everyone hears things differently I guess.


----------



## ben_r_

Just scored a brand new E1 for $260 on eBay. What should I check when I get it? Ive seen stuff about volume controller versions? channel balancing? Gain jumpers?


----------



## Behelith

Hi Everyone
   
  I'm a E1 owner since 5 days to day my dac has decided to not giving sound with all the leds on.
  I've tried to unplugg the ac cable and wait few minutes but nothing happens.
  Also unplugged the usb cable (I only use the USB as source), headphone... nothing seems to work 
   
  Any clue?
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## Leonarfd

You should eliminate if it is the pc or not try another pc trough usb. Also you could try the coax or spdif, but ofc all electronics can start to malfunction. But before you ask for repair it is good to see if there is something wrong on your side.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





dannyhc said:


> I own the Muses, I started off stock, then Plus Edition and finally the Muses01.
> 
> I'm normally not one to song and dance, but the Muses opamps deserve worldwide recognition as the greatest contribution to audio reproduction.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I am very curious how this will change/enhance your already mused up E1.
   
  Please upon swapping to all muses on your dac, I would appreciate writing back...Good luck.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I am very curious how this will change/enhance your already mused up E1.
> 
> Please upon swapping to all muses on your dac, I would appreciate writing back...Good luck.


 
  +2


----------



## midnightfox

dmax99 said:


> Oh? So you reckon you like the sound of the stock ones' better?
> Would you say the Muses01 is really worth the upgrade? Because I am sick and tired of hunting down the genuine ones. Who knows which ones on eBay or any other online sellers' are real even though they LOOK genuine??!.




It's definitely worth upgrading as there's a big improvement.
I purchased mine a while back from a very large Japanese supplier and found there services exceptional as they deal with New Japan Radio directly. 

http://www.chip1stop.com/web/AUS/en/dispDetail.do?partId=NJR1-0012051


----------



## DMax99

midnightfox said:


> It's definitely worth upgrading as there's a big improvement.
> I purchased mine a while back from a very large Japanese supplier and found there services exceptional as they deal with New Japan Radio directly.
> 
> http://www.chip1stop.com/web/AUS/en/dispDetail.do?partId=NJR1-0012051


 

It doesn't look like they still stock them. How much were they?


----------



## palmfish

I just received my replacement E1 today. I want to reiterate what fantastic customer service ASUSXONAR and Asus have provided. The sent my replacement BEFORE asking me to return my unit so that I wasn't left without an amplifier. My new one was packaged like new - and appears to be a brand new, unused unit (although I suspect it must be refurbished). It had all original packaging and even the plastic protectors on the volume knob faces.
   
  It has the A10K pot and jumpers and volume knob feel is much improved over my previous unit (which had too much loose play).
   
  Unheard of customer support for such a large overseas company! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




       Here are my unboxing pictures...


----------



## palmfish

And enjoying it...


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I just received my replacement E1 today. I want to reiterate what fantastic customer service ASUSXONAR and Asus have provided. The sent my replacement BEFORE asking me to return my unit so that I wasn't left without an amplifier. My new one was packaged like new - and appears to be a brand new, unused unit (although I suspect it must be refurbished). It had all original packaging and even the plastic protectors on the volume knob faces.
> 
> It has the A10K pot and jumpers and volume knob feel is much improved over my previous unit (which had too much loose play).
> 
> ...


 
  Wow that's great fast customer service man, compared to the rest of the world where we have to jump through hoops while clap our hands at the same time
   
  Nice one Bro


----------



## Ear-Wax

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> And enjoying it...


 
  Truly great customer service! I too love my Muses and after just a week of ownership I am amazed about the SQ to my HD650's every time I fire them up.
   
  IMO there is no better DAC combo in this price range. What cans are you driving in this photo? HD800's?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## palmfish

Yes, those are HD800's. I am very happy with the pairing.
   
  I agree, the Essence One is a game changer IMO. This level of performance and features is very rare under $1000 - let alone $600. The only thing it lacks compared to the DAC1 Pre and Grace Audio M903 is cache (and aluminum knobs).
   
  Hey, as long as I'm here, I have a question and don't want to hunt through all the previous pages again...  My gain jumpers appear to be set to the "high gain" setting. I have noticed that the volume control knob is higher now than it was on my previous unit for the same listening level. Am I reading the jumpers wrong, is the A10K scaled differently than the B10K, or is something else going on? No info in the manual so I'm wondering which jumper position is which for HD800's vs. IEM's?


----------



## Gandah

HD800s are 300 ohms so I would say leave it on high gain unless your planning to use low impedance Headphones........ However *turokrocks *and others have said you loss SQ with low gain which makes it pointless
   
  I have no experience with the A10k pot other than reading peoples comments on this thread and some web reviews which all saying the channels are now equally balanced with the newer potentiometer, which would be interesting to hear your thoughts to see if you concur?


----------



## ahhui90

its here! 
time to upgrade my E1.


----------



## DMax99

ahhui90 said:


> its here!
> time to upgrade my E1.




Awesome... Let us know what you think of them! 

Btw where did you get your muses01 from?


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





ahhui90 said:


> its here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yea where did you get those from and how are you sure they are not fakes as the manufacturer has stated the only US authorized reseller is Digi-Key and they have been out of stock forever.


----------



## DMax99

ben_r_ said:


> Yea where did you get those from and how are you sure they are not fakes as the manufacturer has stated the only US authorized reseller is Digi-Key and they have been out of stock forever.




Maybe he is in Japan as his keyboard has what looks like Japanese Characters on it?


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Maybe he is in Japan as his keyboard has what looks like Japanese Characters on it?


 

 ? May be. Thats why I was asking...


----------



## DMax99

ben_r_ said:


> ? May be. Thats why I was asking...




If he is in Japan, there's a better chance he has got the Genuine one


----------



## ahhui90

I was in Japan last month for a holiday, bought the E1 set there which is much much cheaper than what they sell here in Singapore.
As for the opamps, I bought it off a japanese webstore. I guess it should be legit since I compared this with the real vs fake picture posted earlier in this thread.
But this batch's number is 101? I always see 206 or 902 :O


----------



## DMax99

ahhui90 said:


> I was in Japan last month for a holiday, bought the E1 set there which is much much cheaper than what they sell here in Singapore.
> As for the opamps, I bought it off a japanese webstore. I guess it should be legit since I compared this with the real vs fake picture posted earlier in this thread.
> But this batch's number is 101? I always see 206 or 902 :O




What's the webstore? How much are they?


----------



## ben_r_

Its here


----------



## DMax99

ben_r_ said:


> Its here




Sorry what's here? Your new headphone?


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Sorry what's here? Your new headphone?


 

 My E1!


----------



## ahhui90

dmax99 said:


> What's the webstore? How much are they?




go to muses01 japanese website, the second retailer link.


----------



## DMax99

ben_r_ said:


> My E1!




Ah... Nice! How do you like it?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> Its here


 
  Nice setup man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Is that a Bottlehead tube amp, if so did you build it yourself?


----------



## ben_r_

gandah said:


> Nice setup man
> 
> Is that a Bottlehead tube amp, if so did you build it yourself?



Yes it is, and yes I did.


----------



## palmfish

Has Asus ever published (or has anybody measured) the output impedance of the Essence One? I have searched for specifications in reviews and the Asus website without success. The TI specsheet for the NE5532 indicates 0.3 Ohms, but I wonder if that is accurate for the end of the line (headphone jack).


----------



## jackwess

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Has Asus ever published (or has anybody measured) the output impedance of the Essence One? I have searched for specifications in reviews and the Asus website without success. The TI specsheet for the NE5532 indicates 0.3 Ohms, but I wonder if that is accurate for the end of the line (headphone jack).


 
   
  Guess we will have to wait until the folks at Innerfidelity do some measures.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> According to my measurements the output impedance of headphone output is about 10,23 ohm (+- 0,03 ohm).
> It was measured at 100, 1000, 10000 Hz; at 100mV, 1,7 V; with load resistors of 30,66 and 222,4 ohm.


 

 This is a quote of my old post regarding the headphone output.
  For other outputs it does not matter as they are usually connected to high impedance inputs and the current drain is low.
   
  Palmfish, NE5532 is not at the position of output buffer. There is LM4562.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmarasovic said:


> This is a quote of my old post regarding the headphone output.
> For other outputs it does not matter as they are usually connected to high impedance inputs and the current drain is low.
> 
> Palmfish, NE5532 is not at the position of output buffer. There is LM4562.


 
  Some variant in Australian models I seen. Newer models comes with LME49720 (Plastic) in the output buffer.


----------



## SneakyPete

So I just got my E1 and I had a question. There appears to be no form of eq built into the drivers for this, So where can I download a good one?


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





sneakypete said:


> So I just got my E1 and I had a question. There appears to be no form of eq built into the drivers for this, So where can I download a good one?


 

 I think usually most people use the EQ built into their media player. I use Winamp, foobar2000 or Clementine.


----------



## SneakyPete

Quote:


ben_r_ said:


> I think usually most people use the EQ built into their media player. I use Winamp, foobar2000 or Clementine.


   
  I mean, it would be nice to have the ability to use an eq for anything I do on my computer, not just when I'm listening to music through a media player. I just don't understand why something like that wouldn't be included in the drivers.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





sneakypete said:


> I mean, it would be nice to have the ability to use an eq for anything I do on my computer, not just when I'm listening to music through a media player. I just don't understand why something like that wouldn't be included in the drivers.


 

   
  Welcome SneakyPete, most if not all audiophile equipment is user define, which is a good thing because you get to learn more and ultimately have better results than if you were hand feed. Trust me the more you hangout with head-fiers the better your audiophile gear will sound


----------



## DMax99

sneakypete said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> ben_r_ said:
> ...


----------



## Gandah

Equalizer APO


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Welcome SneakyPete, most if not all audiophile equipment is user define, which is a good thing because you get to learn more and ultimately have better results than if you were hand feed. Trust me the more you hangout with head-fiers the better your audiophile gear will sound


 
   
  The only down side to hanging out with head fiers is the heavy burden to your wallet.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> The only down side to hanging out with head fiers is the heavy burden to your wallet.


 
  True


----------



## SneakyPete

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Equalizer APO


 
  Thank you, this program works like a charm.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





sneakypete said:


> Thank you, this program works like a charm.


 
  Happy to help


----------



## abvolt

I was just on newegg's site going to order the E1 muses edition and newegg shows that they have discontinued the E1 has any one here heard of problems with this dac ? Seems  hard to find one Kmart shows the same thing. Maybe this is not that great of a dac after all..


----------



## DMax99

abvolt said:


> I was just on newegg's site going to order the E1 muses edition and newegg shows that they have discontinued the E1 has any one here heard of problems with this dac ? Seems  hard to find one Kmart shows the same thing. Maybe this is not that great of a dac after all..




Its a pretty good dac


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





abvolt said:


> I was just on newegg's site going to order the E1 muses edition and newegg shows that they have discontinued the E1 has any one here heard of problems with this dac ? Seems  hard to find one Kmart shows the same thing. Maybe this is not that great of a dac after all..


 
  Being out of stock, more often means that the product is in demand, but discontinued, really strange, it could be for many reasons.


----------



## Gandah

I highly doubt the muses is being discontinued when asus are still sending units to reviewers to be reviewed. I still have not received my RMA "standard edition" unit which I've been waiting for over a month now, because I've been told none are available here in Australia, so its coming directly from asus
   
  So maybe its the same situation where you live with the muses edition, its just not available at the moment


----------



## DMax99

Yeah I'm pretty sure they are not discontinued as they are still on their website and also being promoted recently in Asia (Singapore I think)


----------



## abvolt

I do hope thats true, really looking forward to owning one but it does say in big bold red letters discontinued go to newegg and check it out, i've only looked at the muses edition on their site.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





abvolt said:


> I do hope thats true, really looking forward to owning one but it does say in big bold red letters discontinued go to newegg and check it out, i've only looked at the muses edition on their site.


 
  Give them a call or better still buy it some where else


----------



## shyamelge

Hello,
   
  I am a new member of head-fi.
   
  I am planning to swap op amps of Essence One (basic model released in early 2012). 
   
  I can’t afford muses so I am looking for other options.
   
  In my country, the following op amps are easily available. And they are affordable too which means that I could try any one of these. 
   
  OPA2227PAG4
  OPA2227PG4
  OPA2132PA
  LM4562NA
  LME49710NA
  LME49720NA 
   
  (LME9720HAs and the adapter required for them are not available). 
   
  Could you suggest which one of the above op amps are more suitable/appropriate in which section? 
   
  I/V: 
  LFP:
  XLR/RCA: (Note – I am not going to use XLR output). 
  Headphone section:
   
  Or shall I swap all the 11 op amps (or 9 since I am not going to use XLR) with one particular op amp (for instance LM4562)? 
   
  I mostly listen to jazz vocals, western classical and world music. My headphones are K701 and HD598. I also got Swan active monitors so I would be using E1 as preamp to drive Swan speakers. 
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## DMax99

At the moment I have tried the 6x LM4562NA, the vocal sounds more forward, but soundstage sounds less then the stock, so i'm back to the stock


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> At the moment I have tried the 6x LM4562NA, the vocal sounds more forward, but soundstage sounds less then the stock, so i'm back to the stock


 
   
  What conclusions should one draw from this experience? Stick to stock op amps if you can't afford muse 01? Right or wrong?
   
  If one has to use LM4562NA, which section should be preferred? I/V or LPF or both?
   
  Any suggestions for upgrading op amp in the headphone section? Or stick to stock op amp as not much improvement is expected?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> What conclusions should one draw from this experience? Stick to stock op amps if you can't afford muse 01? Right or wrong?
> 
> If one has to use LM4562NA, which section should be preferred? I/V or LPF or both?
> 
> Any suggestions for upgrading op amp in the headphone section? Or stick to stock op amp as not much improvement is expected?




IMO, I would stick with the stock op-amps unless you decide to upgrade to Muses01. I will give you an impression of Muses01 when I get mine from a fellow headfier soon and also whether or not an upgrade to Muses01 is really worth all the hypes. 

By saying that, any other op-amps are very cheap, so doesn't hurt to buy some to try.


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> IMO, I would stick with the stock op-amps unless you decide to upgrade to Muses01. I will give you an impression of Muses01 when I get mine from a fellow headfier soon and also whether or not an upgrade to Muses01 is really worth all the hypes.
> 
> By saying that, any other op-amps are very cheap, so doesn't hurt to buy some to try.


 
  Good point. 
   
  I look forward to your experiments with muses01. 
   
  While searching further on this matter on google, I just came across an interesting blog by NwAvGuy where he has demolished many myths associated with "hi-end" op amps and op amp rolling. To me, a lot of these discussions are useful and eye opener as I am entering into head-fi territory.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Good point.
> 
> I look forward to your experiments with muses01.
> 
> While searching further on this matter on google, I just came across an interesting blog by NwAvGuy where he has demolished many myths associated with "hi-end" op amps and op amp rolling. To me, a lot of these discussions are useful and eye opener as I am entering into head-fi territory.




Yeah, I have also read that blog and I can CONFIRM that different op-amps DO make the sound DIFFERENT!


----------



## palmfish

I am curious to find out for myself as well. Im thinking about getting some NE5532's to swap in and give a listen.


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> OPA2227PAG4
> OPA2227PG4
> OPA2132PA
> LM4562NA
> ...


 
  Hi,
  I would suggest you to try OPA2132PA at I/V, sounds best (for me) with OPA2107P at LPF, good with LM4562NA at LPF.
  For XLR/RCA choose between LM4562NA, LME49720NA with slightly less bass. LME49720HA (not on the list) sounds brighter.
  Damir


----------



## palmfish

I'm looking at Mouser.com for the NE5532 opamp and there are several different varieties. The two that appear to be correct for the E1 are the NE5532P which is "PDIP-8" and the NE5532PE4 which is "DIP-8."
   
  DIP-8 is what I want, right? So I should order the PE4?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I'm looking at Mouser.com for the NE5532 opamp and there are several different varieties. The two that appear to be correct for the E1 are the NE5532P which is "PDIP-8" and the NE5532PE4 which is "DIP-8."
> 
> DIP-8 is what I want, right? So I should order the PE4?


 

 DIP-8 and PDIP-8 is the same housing. P means plastic. Most cases are made of plastic, many of ceramic. PE4 is OK for you.


----------



## DMax99

Why are you getting the NE5532? Isn't that the stock ones?


----------



## palmfish

Thanks for the info!

Just curious to hear what if any difference the Muses opamps make.


----------



## DMax99

palmfish said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> Just curious to hear what if any difference the Muses opamps make.





Having received my muses01 from Gandah yesterday, this is my first impressions of them:

The vocal with the stock sounds more distant from your ear (to me I first liked it because I thought that make the soundstage sounds bit wider). The vocal on the other hand with the muses01 sounds closer, cleaner and also with much more details. The soundstage is very good too even though I think the stock has a tad more. 

Overall I am very happy with it. Is it worth the money? Well if you're going to pay 200+ for them I say NO. But if you can find them under 200 (thanks Gandah ;D) then I say YES. Bevery ccareful with FAKE ones out there though with some of the cheap ones (look at my earlier post here to tell the difference) 

Hope this helps a bit


----------



## palmfish

Thanks for the impressions DMax. Lately Im a bit disappointed by the smallish soundstage and thinking about going a completely different route.

Gotta think about it for a bit...


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Having received my muses01 from Gandah yesterday, this is my first impressions of them:
> 
> The vocal with the stock sounds more distant from your ear (to me I first liked it because I thought that make the soundstage sounds bit wider). The vocal on the other hand with the muses01 sounds closer, cleaner and also with much more details. The soundstage is very good too even though I think the stock has a tad more.
> 
> ...


 
  Nice one man I'm glad you like them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  maybe your E1 will become better with soundstage after more time with the muses, all I can say is muses out performed stock and all other combos in every area to my ears anyways


----------



## shyamelge

Thanks for sharing your experience with muses 01.
   
  Did you install muses 01 in I/V and LPF sections? Which other op amps were used in the remaining sections?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience with muses 01.
> 
> Did you install muses 01 in I/V and LPF sections? Which other op amps were used in the remaining sections?




Yeah 6x muses01, 4 in I/V and 2 in LPF. The rest arm are all stock. I'm going to swap the stock to the LME49710HA at the 2 headphone output sections (heard good results with them in the previous posts). 

I'm going to leave the RCA and XLR sections stock as I don't use it for speakers or balanced headphones. 

Yeah I agree, muses01 is the best ones atm out of all the op amps I have tried


----------



## ben_r_

Wait there is more than 6 op amps in there?! I havent opened mine up yet. How many are there?!


----------



## shyamelge

altogether 11 op amps - 6 in I/V and LPF; 3 in XLR/RCA; and 2 in HP section.
   
  I have read many comments that the improvement in sound was more noticeable in LPF section than I/V. Does it mean that we could just install 2 pieces of muses01 ($100 or so) and enjoy the better sound?


----------



## shyamelge

Is there any other op amp in the range of $10-20 which could be considered closer to muses01 in performance? There may be a product in this market segment, given the huge price gap between muses01 and others (including 4562/49720). Any idea?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Is there any other op amp in the range of $10-20 which could be considered closer to muses01 in performance? There may be a product in this market segment, given the huge price gap between muses01 and others (including 4562/49720). Any idea?




I was told the next best thing was the LM4562NA, which I got for about 15 dollars shipped for 6 pieces. They sounded ok, with more forward vocal, but I prefer the stock over them due to the better soundstage of the stock


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I was told the next best thing was the LM4562NA, which I got for about 15 dollars shipped for 6 pieces. They sounded ok, with more forward vocal, but I prefer the stock over them due to the better soundstage of the stock


 
   
  So you find the stock 5532 has better soundstage than 4562. Right?
   
  Which other op amp offers better soundstage than 5532?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> So you find the stock 5532 has better soundstage than 4562. Right?
> 
> Which other op amp offers better soundstage than 5532?




That's correct, at this stage 5532 has the BEST soundstage to my ear. However, the downside of it is that it makes the vocal sounds a bit distant. 

For some reason, I also felt my FAKE muses01 sounded better than the 4562..lol. I wonder which op amp they've used to print the fake logos 

In my opinion, keep using the 5532 unless you either prefer the closer vocal sound or decided to upgrade to the genuine muses01


----------



## DMax99

My he400 has been sounding so much better with the new muses01  Less bright and fatiguing


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> My he400 has been sounding so much better with the new muses01
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using the E1 as the amp too or just the DAC?


----------



## DMax99

ben_r_ said:


> Are you using the E1 as the amp too or just the DAC?




yeah I am 

It does pretty well for me now and if I want a slight warmer sound I use my Aune T1 though the sound on that is slightly less clear.


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> That's correct, at this stage 5532 has the BEST soundstage to my ear. However, the downside of it is that it makes the vocal sounds a bit distant.
> 
> For some reason, I also felt my FAKE muses01 sounded better than the 4562..lol. I wonder which op amp they've used to print the fake logos
> 
> ...


 
   
  EI uses 49720 in the headphone section. Did you swap them to 4562 or others to arrive at this above conclusion? Or you only swapped the op amps in I/V and LPF sections? 
   
So if one is interested in forward vocals and mids, then 4562 or other similarly priced op am maybe considered. Right?
   
I have ordered 6 pieces of 4562 and they would arrive early next week. I will check and get back here. 
   
I have also attached E1 to my amplifier and speakers through RCA out. For certain tracks, I have to keep the volume knob close to the maximum or at 3 o' clock. No harm in doing this?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> EI uses 49720 in the headphone section. Did you swap them to 4562 or others to arrive at this above conclusion? Or you only swapped the op amps in I/V and LPF sections?
> 
> So if one is interested in forward vocals and mids, then 4562 or other similarly priced op am maybe considered. Right?
> 
> ...




I have tried the 4562, 5532 and the fake muses01 in the headphone section. To me they didn't really make much of a difference. I am hoping to get the LME49710HA soon (when I have more money) so I can try them in the headphone section and see if they really sound as good as some have said in the earlier posts. I think there must be a reason why one of the main differences between the ASUS muse version and basic versions are the 6x Muses01 at IV and LPF, maybe they make the most differences to sound?!

Good to hear that you will get to try the 4562 soon, let us know what you think of them compare to the 5532.

I am not too sure about the RCA out for speakers as I don't use my E1 for speakers. However, I have tried it a few times with my speakers and for some reason it does NOT make my speakers very loud??!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I am not too sure about the RCA out for speakers as I don't use my E1 for speakers. However, I have tried it a few times with my speakers and for some reason it does NOT make my speakers very loud??!


 
   
  The RCA (and balanced) outputs are a "pre-out." They are not intended to power speakers without a separate amplifier.


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The RCA (and balanced) outputs are a "pre-out." They are not intended to power speakers without a separate amplifier.


 
  Yes, I attach E1 to an integrated amplifier and speakers.


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I have tried the 4562, 5532 and the fake muses01 in the headphone section. To me they didn't really make much of a difference. I am hoping to get the LME49710HA soon (when I have more money) so I can try them in the headphone section and see if they really sound as good as some have said in the earlier posts. I think there must be a reason why one of the main differences between the ASUS muse version and basic versions are the 6x Muses01 at IV and LPF, maybe they make the most differences to sound?!
> 
> Good to hear that you will get to try the 4562 soon, let us know what you think of them compare to the 5532.
> 
> I am not too sure about the RCA out for speakers as I don't use my E1 for speakers. However, I have tried it a few times with my speakers and for some reason it does NOT make my speakers very loud??!


 
  Interesting. Yes, one conclusion could be drawn from this experience is that the swapping op amps in thee I/V and LPF matters the most. The rest can remain stock.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Interesting. Yes, one conclusion could be drawn from this experience is that the swapping op amps in thee I/V and LPF matters the most. The rest can remain stock.




yeah, that's how I feel at the moment anyway, maybe it will change after I get the LME49710HAs in the headphone sections


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> Yes, I attach E1 to an integrated amplifier and speakers.


 
   
  Then yes, you can turn the large volume knob all the way to maximum and leave it there.


----------



## shyamelge

A friend has suggested that one could try to use the RCA out in the back panel of EI instead of the front dedicated 6.5 mm HP jack, as it may offer better sound stage and quality.
   
  Has anyone tried it?
   
  Do I need RCA-6.5/3.5mm adopter to try it?


----------



## abvolt

I never heard of using the rca like that interesting. I use the balanced xlr out's for my powered adam audio speakers works really well.


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





abvolt said:


> I never heard of using the rca like that interesting. I use the balanced xlr out's for my powered adam audio speakers works really well.


 
  This was also something new to me so I thought of checking here. 
   
  when listening through adam active spks, do you set volume control beyond 12 o'clock?


----------



## gkl

Hey guys. I seem to have a strange issue with my Essence One which appeared literally today. Every time I switch a track, my whole PC freezes for a second. The same happens when I stop it. Plus, similar behavior is with Youtube videos and, for example, Windows' sound check (i.e., test left/right channel - freezes after the test tone plays). Any ideas what could be causing this? I run Windows 8 x64 and have the latest drivers from Windows Update (8.0.11.8). Not using Asus's software as it's incompatible with these drivers. Had no issues what so ever until now. Plus everything works fine when I use the on-board sound card. 
   
  By the way, I have done no software changes recently. At least, nothing that should affect the sound. All I did was change my case today but that should have had hardly any impact...
   
  An update: shouldn't have jumped the gun with the post... I plugged in a different USB port and it works fine now... Though, does anyone know why would one port make it lag/micro freeze but a different one not?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> A friend has suggested that one could try to use the RCA out in the back panel of EI instead of the front dedicated 6.5 mm HP jack, as it may offer better sound stage and quality.
> 
> Has anyone tried it?
> 
> Do I need RCA-6.5/3.5mm adopter to try it?




I've tried this yesterday afternoon before you posted this after I was testing my speaker with them. 

I tried it with a RCA to 3.5mm adapter. Imo, I did NOT hear any difference. Mind you I only listened to it for about 5 mins ;p


----------



## mwindham08

gkl said:


> Hey guys. I seem to have a strange issue with my Essence One which appeared literally today. Every time I switch a track, my whole PC freezes for a second. The same happens when I stop it. Plus, similar behavior is with Youtube videos and, for example, Windows' sound check (i.e., test left/right channel - freezes after the test tone plays). Any ideas what could be causing this? I run Windows 8 x64 and have the latest drivers from Windows Update (8.0.11.8). Not using Asus's software as it's incompatible with these drivers. Had no issues what so ever until now. Plus everything works fine when I use the on-board sound card.
> 
> By the way, I have done no software changes recently. At least, nothing that should affect the sound. All I did was change my case today but that should have had hardly any impact...
> 
> An update: shouldn't have jumped the gun with the post... I plugged in a different USB port and it works fine now... Though, does anyone know why would one port make it lag/micro freeze but a different one not?




Is one of the ports a usb 3.0 port? Windows 8 sometimes has buggy drivers with usb 3.0


----------



## shyamelge

A query: Does EI work with android phones and tablets (4.1 and above)?


----------



## gkl

Quote: 





mwindham08 said:


> Is one of the ports a usb 3.0 port? Windows 8 sometimes has buggy drivers with usb 3.0


 
  All of my back ports are USB 3.0 and both (the one with issues and the fine one) run off the same chipset... Oh well, at least it runs fine now.


----------



## DMax99

gkl said:


> All of my back ports are USB 3.0 and both (the one with issues and the fine one) run off the same chipset... Oh well, at least it runs fine now.




Maybe that usb port is faulty, it's not uncommon for them to go faulty


----------



## shyamelge

This morning I received LM4562s and installed 6 of them in I/V and LPF sections.
   
  The stock op amps in HP and XLR/RCA sections were not removed. Initially I thought of using the stock 49720NA in LPF section but given some comments that they are same chip as 4562s I didn't swap them.  
   
  For removing 5536s, I tried a couple of tools but finally used a basic eyebrow plucker. And it did the job quickly and smoothly.
   
  Some quick impressions using both HP and RCA outputs: I find vocals are a little forward and bass is punchier than 55536s. The sound appears more lively, warmish and suitable for jazz vocals.
   
  However, as far as classical music is concerned, 5536s were sounding much airy and smooth than 4562s.
   
  This experience has convinced me that op amps do make a difference in sound signature. 
   
  Meanwhile, I have also ordered 6 pieces of 49720HAs and they should reach me by next week or so.


----------



## DMax99

So which one do you prefer? The more airy or the more forward sound? 

Did you use dip8 adapters? They make rolling much easier ;p

Of course they make a difference


----------



## shyamelge

Overall, I prefer 4562s as they sound more natural and closer than 5536s.
   
  For certain classical music recordings, I may still prefer 5536.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Overall, I prefer 4562s as they sound more natural and closer than 5536s.
> 
> For certain classical music recordings, I may still prefer 5536.




In that case I think you would LOVE the muses01 ;p

Before the muses01 I preferred the airyness of 5536 over the 4562s. But the muses01 has both the airyness and vocal forwardness 

Btw, just curious which headphone are you using with your e1?


----------



## shyamelge

I used HD598 and K701 HPs. 
   
  Yes I would love a combo of airyness and forward vocals but the muses are very expensive besides currently not available in the market. 
   
  Does it make any sense to install just 2 pieces of muses01 in LPF section in order to benefit from better sound quality at a lower cost? OR the muses01 will perform to their best when they are replaced in both I/V and LPF sections. Why I am exploring this option is that most discussants have stated that the major changes in sound occur while rolling op amps in LPF section. Your guess?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> I used HD598 and K701 HPs.
> 
> Yes I would love a combo of airyness and forward vocals but the muses are very expensive besides currently not available in the market.
> 
> Does it make any sense to install just 2 pieces of muses01 in LPF section in order to benefit from better sound quality at a lower cost? OR the muses01 will perform to their best when they are replaced in both I/V and LPF sections. Why I am exploring this option is that most discussants have stated that the major changes in sound occur while rolling op amps in LPF section. Your guess?




Hmm.. Not sure, I haven't tried yet. I guess I can give it a try sometime this week and let you know. I will try it with 4562 and 2 muaes01 and let you know what I think. 

How does the k701 sound? I'm thinking of ordering a k601 tonight


----------



## shyamelge

I look forward to your experiment with muses and 4562s.
   
  K701 are very transparent and natural sounding. They are comfortable too but if I have to wear for long sessions (3 hours and above), I may prefer 598. The comfort levels may differ from person to person depending on head size, do you wear glasses, etc.   
   
  I have never heard K601 so can't comment.


----------



## shyamelge

The muses edition has 49600 in HP section. Has any one compared this op amp with stock 49720HNA of EI basic model?


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> The muses edition has 49600 in HP section. Has any one compared this op amp with stock 49720HNA of EI basic model?


 
  It has been mention much earlier in this thread the best sound of the LME family is the LME49710HA in the TO-99 metal can package. 
   
  LM4562 > LME49720HNA > LME49720HNA
   
  Both the LME49720HNA and the LME49720HNA come in the plastic dip-8 but the one to get are the TO-99 metal can package.
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180872434827?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649


----------



## shyamelge

Thank you for informing me about the best sounding op amps in the LME family.


----------



## Mach3

Just to clarify, LME49600 soldered onto the board (Can not be swapped) 49720HNA is what's in the HP buffer.
   
  Check out leeperry's review as he is very experienced with the opamp rolling. He's suggest replacing the LME49720HNA with OPA2132P or OPA627 on dual adaptors. He mention AD797 is not stable and oscillate making them very hot (You can solder 0.22uF in parallel to pin 4 & 8 on the dip-8 to resolve this issue)
   
  I have tried AD797, LME49710HNA and OPA627 with great success. OPA627 is my current as stated by leeperry more suited for bright headphone.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition/reviews/8824


----------



## shyamelge

Thanks for the link.
   
  Given your considerable experience with several op amps, may I request you to explain the sound signature of OPA627?
   
  Which other op amps are you using with OPA627 in E1?


----------



## DMax99

I'm very tempted to get another 2 Muses01 to put into the headphone section instead of the LME49710HA... 

I wonder which one will sound better


----------



## Mach3

shyamelge said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Given your considerable experience with several op amps, may I request you to explain the sound signature of OPA627?
> 
> Which other op amps are you using with OPA627 in E1?


 

  OPA627 is know for it warmer sound signature. I've replaced the LM4562 with LME49710HA in the XLR & RCA section. The rest is NE5532 until digikey stock some muses01.
   
   
   
  Quote:


dmax99 said:


> I'm very tempted to get another 2 Muses01 to put into the headphone section instead of the LME49710HA...
> 
> I wonder which one will sound better


 
  Some guy in a chinese forum claim to have put muses01 in all 11 spot. One expensive exercise.


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Some guy in a chinese forum claim to have put muses01 in all 11 spot. One expensive exercise.




Haha, really? Another 2 extra is as far as I would go as I'm not going to use my e1 for the balanced or RCA parts. 

Btw, where is this Chinese forum? I'm very interested to have a read on the forum too


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Haha, really? Another 2 extra is as far as I would go as I'm not going to use my e1 for the balanced or RCA parts.
> 
> Btw, where is this Chinese forum? I'm very interested to have a read on the forum too


 
  Original link is broken, but here is the link to the bloke that did it. I'm thinking of getting XLR & RCA caps too, but boy they are expensive.
   
http://fs-digital.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&action=printable&tid=43094


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Original link is broken, but here is the link to the bloke that did it. I'm thinking of getting XLR & RCA caps too, but boy they are expensive.
> 
> http://fs-digital.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&action=printable&tid=43094





Yeah 11x Muses01 is CRAZY...although, looks like he might be from HK, it might be CHEAPER for him to get the Muses01 there!


*[COLOR=FF00AA]Do you think I should get 2x Muses01 for about $64 or 2x LME49710HA for about $56 for the headphone section??![/COLOR]*


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> *Do you think I should get 2x Muses01 for about $64 or 2x LME49710HA for about $56 for the headphone section??!*


 
   
  Is it possible to get 2 pieces of muses for $64? Any link?


----------



## abvolt

Have you looked here http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/MUSES/MUSES01.html they offer a list of online distributors .


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Is it possible to get 2 pieces of muses for $64? Any link?




I am thinking about getting them from here:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1p-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-Z19-/181140368660?ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123

Seller agreed to do 2 for $64. However, I am not 100% certain if they are genuine. From the photos they look genuine, but hard to tell.


----------



## shyamelge

If any forum member has bought muses from this seller, it may be better to check from him before placing an order.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> If any forum member has bought muses from this seller, it may be better to check from him before placing an order.





I think I might pull the trigger soon and try him. If they turned out to be fakes. I can always get a refund from paypal!


----------



## DMax99

Oops, sorry, double post


----------



## shyamelge

would you be buying 6 or 2 pieces?


----------



## DMax99

2, I already have 6pcs. I just want the extra 2 for the headphone section


----------



## shyamelge

Oh...That's great! I very much look forward to your experiment.


----------



## ben_r_

Huh, So of the 11 total op amps in the E1, even the official ASUS MUSES01 version it only comes with 6 of the 11 upgraded!? Thats kinda lame. And not even any special branding on the exterior of the unit for the MUSES01 edition.


----------



## palmfish

I wouldnt be too confident that the Muses 01 is suited for any of the other positions. Personally, I trust the highly qualified engineers at Asus who designed the E1 to know best which opamps to swap and which to leave alone.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I wouldnt be too confident that the Muses 01 is suited for any of the other positions. Personally, I trust the highly qualified engineers at Asus who designed the E1 to know best which opamps to swap and which to leave alone.


 

 Agreed. Now If a place I trust (Digi-Key) would just get those MUSES01 back in stock I might consider trying them.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> 2, I already have 6pcs. I just want the extra 2 for the headphone section


 
  Problem is, it best to get match serial MUSES01. So far I've seen 101, 201, 202, 204, 901. Not sure if any other serial exist.


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Problem is, it best to get match serial MUSES01. So far I've seen 101, 201, 202, 204, 901. Not sure if any other serial exist.




Does the serial make a difference?


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Does the serial make a difference?


 
  JRC who makes them told me to order the same serial. I've got no idea why, better matching I guess. Might have to email them to find out why.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Does the serial make a difference?


 
  It does and it doesn't, let me explain, the i/v users x4 opamps should all be the same serial, however buffer should also be the same but you could use a different serial, and HP or XLR buffer doesn't have to be the same as long as the 2 going into the buffer are the same
   
  Simples


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> JRC who makes them told me to order the same serial. I've got no idea why, better matching I guess. Might have to email them to find out why.




I see, I wonder if they meant same series in each section or same series for ALL 11 spots


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> I see, I wonder if they meant same series in each section or same series for ALL 11 spots


 

 Yes uniformation


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





gandah said:


> It does and it doesn't, let me explain, the i/v users x4 opamps should all be the same serial, however buffer should also be the same but you could use a different serial, and HP or XLR buffer doesn't have to be the same as long as the 2 going into the buffer are the same
> 
> Simples


 

 I dont think that really answered the question. Why should ANY of them be the same serial?
   
  Is there wide variances in their production runs?
   
  Have they made unpublished changes to the design of the chip?
   
  Or is it just a lead in to get the buyer to ask "well how do I get all the same serial?", to which they reply: "well the only way is to buy them from one of our authorized, high priced resellers of course!"
   
  Or does it make no difference at all and its just another snake oil "audiophile" BS thing to get everyone who cares worried about?
   
  And by same serial do you mean sequential serial numbers?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> I dont think that really answered the question. Why should ANY of them be the same serial?
> 
> Is there wide variances in their production runs?
> 
> ...


 
  Could be a combination of a lot of things, different time, design, materials, contractor, facility, the list could be endless


----------



## DMarasovic

As the Muses 01 opams are so expensive and not widely avaliable, I have used some more time to roll (and rock   ). Very good combination was OPA 2132P at I/V and OPA 2107 at LPF. Clear, strong and dynamic sound, just a little V shaped with elevated low and high end, which means not perfect for classical music. After spending almost the whole day in swapping lm4562, lme49720, lme49860, ad797br, opa627au, opa2132, opa2107, lt1028, ne5532 in all combinations I found that the winner in sound and stability is lt1028 at I/V and opa627au (all smd single chips on adapters). It is totaly transparent, no adding (like sss at highs) or missing any detail. Dynamic and impact is fantastic, fluid and lifelike.
  It is true that chips at LPF give more signature - good combination was stock ne5532 at I/V with opa627au at LPF, with darker presentation and strong bass that can help some headphones to sound better. It would be helpful if somebody with Muses opamps try the above combination and share impressions. At  this moment my search to improve E1 is finished.
  Best regards,
  Damir


----------



## shyamelge

Thanks for your feedback on rolling a variety of op amps.
   
  I can try OPA 2132P and OPA2107 combo.
   
  2132P or 2132PA version?


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> Thanks for your feedback on rolling a variety of op amps.
> 
> I can try OPA 2132P and OPA2107 combo.
> 
> 2132P or 2132PA version?


 

  It is OPA2132PA ordered directly from TI.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> I dont think that really answered the question. Why should ANY of them be the same serial?
> 
> Is there wide variances in their production runs?
> 
> ...


 
  Don't shoot the messenger, you could email JRC.  
tkitada@njr.co.jp  <-- link provided
   
Cheers!


----------



## DMax99

Hey Mach3, is your E1 Mused up?


----------



## shyamelge

Do I need to burn-in when new op amps are installed? If yes, for how many hours?


----------



## mwindham08

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> Do I need to burn-in when new op amps are installed? If yes, for how many hours?


 
  You could I guess, I always noticed a difference as soon as I swapped an opamp.
   
  If you don't like the change in sound immediately odds are it's not going to change drastically
  enough for you to like it 100 hours later.


----------



## shyamelge

valid point.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Hey Mach3, is your E1 Mused up?


 
   
  Hehe E1 Mused up? more like in pieces at the moment. Just finish the following mods last night. Power caps done previously,replaced all the Nichicon KT to KA. Changed all 10% tolerance WIMA to 5% and 2.5%. Didn't get all 2.5%: Reason, example 8,200pF didn't fit and was obstructing placement of dual mono opamps like LME49710HA.
   
   

   

   

  Original adhesive pad was very hard to remove and provided below average heat transfer IMO

  Ready to rock and roll

  1.0mm High quality thermal pad from EK graphic card water block. You can buy them online. $10 will cover 2 XE1 mod.
   

  WIMA CAP:
  8 x 2200pF 5% 100V (FKP) > 2200pF 2.5% 100V (FKP) Won't fit flush (Looking for better alternative, *can someone comment if they found something better*)
   
  4 x 0.022uF 10% 100V (FKS) > 0.022uF 2.5% 100V (FKP) Done
   
  8 x 8200pF 10% 100V (FKS) > 8200pF 5% 100V (FKS) Done
   
  6 x 1800pF 5% 100V (FKP) > 1800pF 2.5% 100V (FKP) <-- Green in colour, not yet completed
   
  Nichicon KT > KA (The replacement for KT according to Nichocon website)
  14 x Nichicon KT 220uF 35V 105c > Nichicon KA 220uF 35V 105c Done
  11 x Nichicon KT 100uF 35V 105c > Nichicon KA 100uF 35V 105c Done
  4 x Nichicon KT 47uF 25V 105c > Nichicon KA 47uF 35V 105c Done
   
  Linear PSU (Power Supply Unit)
  Replaced both the 2 x 330uF & 470uF with FR (According to Panasonic website good for 10,000 hours)
   
  Definitely not worried about heating issue as the whole bottom metal chassis act as one big ass heatsink!


----------



## Gandah

NICE one mate


----------



## ben_r_

Wow....


----------



## Mach3

WIMA in more details. Hope it will help anyone that's willing to put XE1 under the soldering iron.
   
  As you can see why I didn't end up soldering the 0.022uF aka 22nF.
  The physical size is too big and it was extremely hard press against the nichicon caps.
  The 8200pF aka 8.2nF also comes in FKP 2.5% 100v but suffers the same physical issue as the 22nF WIMA caps.
   
  Best suggestion to desolder caps. Use a soldering bath where possible ($15-$20 delivered on eBay, great even for beginners)
   
  For tight area/trouble spot near the plastic data cable. You need to use a good variable power soldering iron $80-$120 with solder wick/braid (This is kinda hard but not jedi level, use youtube. There are plenty of video showing you how to remove solder from circuit boards)


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Hehe E1 Mused up? more like in pieces at the moment. Just finish the following mods last night. Power caps done previously,replaced all the Nichicon KT to KA. Changed all 10% tolerance WIMA to 5% and 2.5%. Didn't get all 2.5%: Reason, example 8,200pF didn't fit and was obstructing placement of dual mono opamps like LME49710HA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Haha... Yeah, looks more like it's all "Mushed" up ;p

You'd remind me of the other guy that was here before he got banned. He was doing heaps of modifications too  

So what sort of differences will these modifications make? Sorry, I'm a electrical noob so have no idea ;p


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





dmax99 said:


> Haha... Yeah, looks more like it's all "Mushed" up ;p
> 
> You'd remind me of the other guy that was here before he got banned. He was doing heaps of modifications too
> 
> ...


 
  I know who you referring to but. He was going way way overboard. He had WIMA caps soldered under the board. Made the board looks like it been ravage!
  Hey DMax99 you want to do a mini meet. I have spare to do your power section. I just want to look at the gain section on your board. I still think I can mod mine to make the gain jumper possible. Your I know for certain it possible on your board 100%. Just need to desolder the bridge wire and solder on the pin headers. Let me know.
   
  So what sort of differences will these modifications make?
 Would need to write up a mini essay to explain this one. I'll just message you the main details.


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> I know who you referring to but. He was going way way overboard. He had WIMA caps soldered under the board. Made the board looks like it been ravage!
> Hey DMax99 you want to do a mini meet. I have spare to do your power section. I just want to look at the gain section on your board. I still think I can mod mine to make the gain jumper possible. Your I know for certain it possible on your board 100%. Just need to desolder the bridge wire and solder on the pin headers. Let me know.
> 
> So what sort of differences will these modifications make?
> ...




I don't mind a mini meet, but I'm very busy this semester, juggling the uni work load, work and plus another baby coming in about 2 month. Do you mind if we meet up towards the end of the year after my exams?


----------



## shyamelge

If you have got 6 pieces each of 5532, OPA2132, OPA2107 and 4562, in which combo (sections of E1) would you prefer to use them?
   
  HPs used are K701 and HD598. The music preferences are jazz vocals, western classical.


----------



## shyamelge

After using 4562s in both I/V and LPF sections for 5 days, today I switched back to  5536 in I/V (and 4562s in LPF) to get back more airyness and detailed sound. This works out be a better combo than having 4562s in both sections.


----------



## palmfish

Have you tried vacuum tubes? I hear the Chatham 6AS7G has good synergy with the Texas Instruments opamps.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Oh...That's great! I very much look forward to your experiment.




Just finished a quick comparison of 4x 4562 vs 4x Muses01 in I/V with 2x Muses01 in LPF. I don't think by having 2x Muses01 in LPF is going to make that much difference to the sound. Not only the 4x Muses01 in I/V give a more forward vocal sound, the rest of the music (eg. instruments in the background) are much more detailed too. 

So if I was you, I wouldn't be bothered with just 2 Muses01. I would probably just wait until you have saved up enough or wait for some headfiers to sell theirs for a 2nd hand price.

As for myself, I think I am going to leave my op amp set up as it is for now. The only thing I will probably try is to get 2x LME49710HA for the headphone section (I have also tried 2x Muses01 in the headphone section with not much sound improvements). 

I also agree that there must be a reason why the Asus Engineers have 6x Muses01 set up for the MUSE E1, because all the op amps are working best at those positions to produce the best sound possible!


----------



## shyamelge

Thank you for sharing your experience. 
   
  Your advise and suggestions are well understood and noted.


----------



## shyamelge

And If I may ask you, the differences between 4562 and Muses01 are kind of last 5 percent - purely in terms of sound quality? Or more?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> And If I may ask you, the differences between 4562 and Muses01 are kind of last 5 percent - purely in terms of sound quality? Or more?




Sorry I couldn't really understand your question. From what I have heard, I reckon in terms of vocal forwardness and details, the Muses01 is probably 30-40% better than the 4562. When I compared them, I didn't mind the 4562, but I preferred the Muses01 because of that 30-40% difference. To me, they made the sound much more lively!

However, I still don't know if they are worth the $250+ for me to recommend you to get them 

ps. I think you also might need a pretty decent headphone to hear the differences.


----------



## shyamelge

Wow! 30-40 percent up from 4562 is a huge jump.
   
  Perhaps that's why, muses command  a hefty premium over other op amps. 
   
  If one conclusion I could draw from your experience is that rather than spending money (and time) on trying a number of lower-priced op amps, it is better to buy muses in one go and settle the matter, at least for a considerable time till another new hi-end op amp surfaces and ups the competition.


----------



## shyamelge

you procured muses from where? any links?


----------



## ben_r_

Huh, well aside from what one persons hears and what another doenst, I say unless you own BOTH a base E1 AND a MUSES01 E1 and can compare them side by side there is really no way to get a truth tell on the improvement youre getting with the MUSES01s.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Wow! 30-40 percent up from 4562 is a huge jump.
> 
> Perhaps that's why, muses command  a hefty premium over other op amps.
> 
> If one conclusion I could draw from your experience is that rather than spending money (and time) on trying a number of lower-priced op amps, it is better to buy muses in one go and settle the matter, at least for a considerable time till another new hi-end op amp surfaces and ups the competition.




Yeah that's correct, I don't think I'll ever use my other op amps now. 

I was lucky enough to get mine from a headfier here called"Gandah"!


----------



## DMax99

ben_r_ said:


> Huh, well aside from what one persons hears and what another doenst, I say unless you own BOTH a base E1 AND a MUSES01 E1 and can compare them side by side there is really no way to get a truth tell on the improvement youre getting with the MUSES01s.




I was a bit skeptical before when I read other people here saying how good the Muses01 are compared to the other op amps. But now I have it I do really prefer them to the other ones!


----------



## shyamelge

Which HPs you used while testing muses?
   
  Which other op amps you got? Are these available to forum members for sale?
   
  Gandah: from where you procured muses?


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Which HPs you used while testing muses?
> 
> Which other op amps you got? Are these available to forum members for sale?
> 
> Gandah: from where you procured muses?




I used to use my DT880 600 ohms for testing, but tonight I used my new favorite headphone: K340

Gandah has posted an ebay link to which he got the Muses01 in one of post here.


----------



## TheManko

I had the opportunity to use a Xonar Essence One Muses Edition here at home and compare it with my HDVD 800, using both my speakers (B&W CM 8 with two subs) and HD 800. I never used the headamp on the Essence One, instead I connected it via XLR to the balanced inputs on the HDVD 800 and used the amp section with my balanced HD 800 headphones. The RCA outputs on the Essence One were connected to the Main In input on my Nad C 375 amp, so I was using the Essence One as a pre-amp for my speakers.
   
  The difference between the two dacs was quite big. The Essence One Muses Edition had a thick bassy sound that seemed to emphasize instruments and visceral impact over vocals and neutral balance. It wasn't a slight emphasis either, as it was hard to make out what vocalists were singing in some parts with the Essence One, while the HDVD 800 dac presented the songs much more clearly. I'd describe it as the HDVD 800 presenting the sound with neutral clarity and precision, while the Essence One instead presented the emotional intentions of the artists.
   
  There's no doubt I enjoyed the music more with the Essence One, but also no doubt that I could hear much more clearly what was going on with the HDVD 800. The Essence One sound didn't seem sloppy or anything. It sounded more organic and in most cases more natural, even if it clearly wasn't neutral. The HDVD 800 dac sounded more "digital", or I guess more like a scientific instrument than something made to enjoy music with. In almost all genres the Essence One was more fun to listen to, while the HDVD 800 just seemed a bit boring in comparison, even if the mids and highs were presented with more clarity. I'm tempted to get a Essence One Muses Edition now since the style of sound was so different from the HDVD 800 that it'd be fun to have both flavors of sound available to listen to.


----------



## Kenion

I highly recommend trying out OPA2227 in I/V and LME49990 in LPF's if you cannot afford the MUSES and/or want a clean and deeper bass including a great soundstage.
  This combo have been my favorite since quite some time now.
   
  @TheManko: Thanks a lot for your impressions. I was thinking about upgrading to a HDVD800 but it turns out that I will stay with my E1 for now...


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> Huh, well aside from what one persons hears and what another doenst, I say unless you own BOTH a base E1 AND a MUSES01 E1 and can compare them side by side there is really no way to get a truth tell on the improvement youre getting with the MUSES01s.


 
  Takeaway what you want..... With my time with the E1 opamp combo rolling I agree 100% with DMax99 30-40% difference, maybe I would even say more than 40%, the E1 muses combo is that GOOD.
   
  Now that I have replaced my E1 with a much more high-end dac being Calyx Femto, as good as this dac is in all areas compared to the E1 muses, there is one thing I'm missing that the Muses has over this dac and that is a very smooth top-end
   
  I can honestly say the muses out superior any opamp I have ever rolled, and I don't even own E1 anymore so I'm non-biased


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





kenion said:


> I highly recommend trying out OPA2227 in I/V and LME49990 in LPF's if you cannot afford the MUSES and/or want a clean and deeper bass including a great soundstage.
> This combo have been my favorite since quite some time now.
> 
> @TheManko: Thanks a lot for your impressions. I was thinking about upgrading to a HDVD800 but it turns out that I will stay with my E1 for now...


 
  Since 49990 requires soldering, which other op amp of DIP8 type would you suggest as an alternative?
   
  Did you also try 2132 in I/V stage as recommended by many members? If yes, kindly share the experience.


----------



## shyamelge

To avoid any damage to opamps during rolling, I am buying 12 pieces of DIP IC socket (http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 )
   
  My questions: Do I need to solder the op amps on these sockets? Or should I just put them into the sockets and they remain stable there unless I put EI upside down?.


----------



## endeeinn

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> If one conclusion I could draw from your experience is that rather than spending money (and time) on trying a number of lower-priced op amps, it is better to buy muses in one go and settle the matter, at least for a considerable time till another new hi-end op amp surfaces and ups the competition.


 
  Amen!   I did a lot of swapping before going for the Muses.  Did get a lot of samples but still had to buy many opamp as the limit on free samples is 3 chips.  In addition I had to acquire single to dual adapters, solder the chips in place, etc.   Would have been much easier  and less costly to got directly for the Muses, however, like most of you,  I didn't see putting out that kind of money any had hope that something less expensive would satisfy me.   Satisfaction was elusive and once I decided to spring for the Muses I couldn't believe the difference and recommend it wholeheartedly.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> To avoid any damage to opamps during rolling, I am buying 12 pieces of DIP IC socket (http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 )
> 
> My questions: Do I need to solder the op amps on these sockets? Or should I just put them into the sockets and they remain stable there unless I put EI upside down?.


 

 No soldering needed with those sockets, you just jam the IC into those pins and they are damn near permanent in there. Its pretty tough to get them out of those sockets some times.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> To avoid any damage to opamps during rolling, I am buying 12 pieces of DIP IC socket (http://www.ebay.com/itm/390422337315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
> )
> 
> My questions: Do I need to solder the op amps on these sockets? Or should I just put them into the sockets and they remain stable there unless I put EI upside down?.




Yeah they are very good and just like those sockets on the e1, you can just pop the op amps on them. They are a must for me, make rolling so much easier!


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





themanko said:


> I had the opportunity to use a Xonar Essence One Muses Edition here at home and compare it with my HDVD 800, using both my speakers (B&W CM 8 with two subs) and HD 800. I never used the headamp on the Essence One, instead I connected it via XLR to the balanced inputs on the HDVD 800 and used the amp section with my balanced HD 800 headphones. The RCA outputs on the Essence One were connected to the Main In input on my Nad C 375 amp, so I was using the Essence One as a pre-amp for my speakers.
> 
> The difference between the two dacs was quite big. The Essence One Muses Edition had a thick bassy sound that seemed to emphasize instruments and visceral impact over vocals and neutral balance. It wasn't a slight emphasis either, as it was hard to make out what vocalists were singing in some parts with the Essence One, while the HDVD 800 dac presented the songs much more clearly. I'd describe it as the HDVD 800 presenting the sound with neutral clarity and precision, while the Essence One instead presented the emotional intentions of the artists.
> 
> There's no doubt I enjoyed the music more with the Essence One, but also no doubt that I could hear much more clearly what was going on with the HDVD 800. The Essence One sound didn't seem sloppy or anything. It sounded more organic and in most cases more natural, even if it clearly wasn't neutral. The HDVD 800 dac sounded more "digital", or I guess more like a scientific instrument than something made to enjoy music with. In almost all genres the Essence One was more fun to listen to, while the HDVD 800 just seemed a bit boring in comparison, even if the mids and highs were presented with more clarity. I'm tempted to get a Essence One Muses Edition now since the style of sound was so different from the HDVD 800 that it'd be fun to have both flavors of sound available to listen to.


 
  Funny you mention this as I was saving up for the HDVD 800 at the start of the year. Lucky for me someone on the HDVD800 thread bought one. He also had the Essence One Muses and was trying to sale it off in the trade/amp section after he bought the HDVD800. After 3-4 week, he withdraw the ad and ended up selling the HDVD800 and some other high end DAC. He stating out of the 3 he enjoy the sound from the XE1 Muses. I was so lucky to come across his post on the thread and ended up with the XE1 and had enough money to get the LCD3 instead of the HDVD800. Your comment only only cemented that I made the right decision to not get the HDVD800.
   
  Thank you.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Takeaway what you want..... With my time with the E1 opamp combo rolling I agree 100% with DMax99 30-40% difference, maybe I would even say more than 40%, the E1 muses combo is that GOOD.
> 
> Now that I have replaced my E1 with a much more high-end dac being Calyx Femto, as good as this dac is in all areas compared to the E1 muses, there is one thing I'm missing that the Muses has over this dac and that is a very smooth top-end
> 
> I can honestly say the muses out superior any opamp I have ever rolled, and I don't even own E1 anymore so I'm non-biased


 
  Congrats on your new DAC (Is the Calyx Femto based on the ES9018 dac?). What happened to your E1 did ASUS ended up refunding you or something?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Congrats on your new DAC (Is the Calyx Femto based on the ES9018 dac?). What happened to your E1 did ASUS ended up refunding you or something?


 
  Thanks man, yeah ES9018 x2. I got a refund after a month of waiting and it turns out asus had none to RMA so got full refund


----------



## shyamelge

Today some more samples of op amps (2132PA and 2017) arrived. Tried various combos in I/V and LPF stages for more than 4 hours. Feeling tired now. 
   
  The best alternative was 2132 and 2107 but not for all genre of music. While 2132 and 4562/49720 combo was sounding good for rock music. But in all these combos I was missing the airyness of stock op amps.
   
  Guess, what? I am back to stock 5536s which have airyness, wide soundstage and fun factor despite some shortcomings.
   
  Now the urge for trying other op amps has ended. The next move would be muses.
   
  Nevertheless, learnt many things in this process.


----------



## DMax99

shyamelge said:


> Today some more samples of op amps (2132PA and 2017) arrived. Tried various combos in I/V and LPF stages for more than 4 hours. Feeling tired now.
> 
> The best alternative was 2132 and 2107 but not for all genre of music. While 2132 and 4562/49720 combo was sounding good for rock music. But in all these combos I was missing the airyness of stock op amps.
> 
> ...




Haha...I was the same before the Muses01, went back to stock due to its airyness. With the Muses01 you will get a combination of both airyness and forward vocal


----------



## TheManko

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Funny you mention this as I was saving up for the HDVD 800 at the start of the year. Lucky for me someone on the HDVD800 thread bought one. He also had the Essence One Muses and was trying to sale it off in the trade/amp section after he bought the HDVD800. After 3-4 week, he withdraw the ad and ended up selling the HDVD800 and some other high end DAC. He stating out of the 3 he enjoy the sound from the XE1 Muses. I was so lucky to come across his post on the thread and ended up with the XE1 and had enough money to get the LCD3 instead of the HDVD800. Your comment only only cemented that I made the right decision to not get the HDVD800.
> 
> Thank you.


 
  I'll be keeping my HDVD 800 since I quite like how the amp sounds with my balanced HD 800 and LCD-2. But it wouldn't surprise me if I ended up using the Essence One Muses dac the majority of the time instead of the internal HDVD 800 dac. I did run out and buy a Essence One Muses Edition, but it turned out to be one of the older ones with B10K pots and no gain switch, so I returned it to the store and now I'm waiting on them to get a newer one from Asus. I've also ordered some additional Muses01 op-amps so I can experiment with running all Muses op-amps in the Essence One.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





themanko said:


> I'll be keeping my HDVD 800 since I quite like how the amp sounds with my balanced HD 800 and LCD-2. But it wouldn't surprise me if I ended up using the Essence One Muses dac the majority of the time instead of the internal HDVD 800 dac. I did run out and buy a Essence One Muses Edition, but it turned out to be one of the older ones with B10K pots and no gain switch, so I returned it to the store and now I'm waiting on them to get a newer one from Asus. I've also ordered some additional Muses01 op-amps so I can experiment with running all Muses op-amps in the Essence One.


 

 Whats wrong with the B10K pots?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> Whats wrong with the B10K pots?


 
  it's the only reason *and mean only reason* why I no longer have the E1 anymore
   
  Do a B10K search on this thread and see for yourself


----------



## TheManko

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> Whats wrong with the B10K pots?


 
  The B10K pot has channel imbalance, while the A10K pot the newer Muses Edition has doesn't. The volume scale is also different as the B10K pot is linear and A10K logarithmic, which means that there's more steps for low volume on the A10K pot. I'll be using the Essence One as a pre-amp for my speakers and with the B10K pot there just aren't enough steps for low/mid volume before it gets really loud, and the channel imbalance was clearly audible until ~9 o clock on the pot. I'm sure for some the B10K pot is just fine, but in my case it was a deal breaker.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





themanko said:


> The B10K pot has channel imbalance, while the A10K pot the newer Muses Edition has doesn't. The volume scale is also different as the B10K pot is linear and A10K logarithmic, which means that there's more steps for low volume on the A10K pot. I'll be using the Essence One as a pre-amp for my speakers and with the B10K pot there just aren't enough steps for low/mid volume before it gets really loud, and the channel imbalance was clearly audible until ~9 o clock on the pot. I'm sure for some the B10K pot is just fine, but in my case it was a deal breaker.


 

 +1


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





themanko said:


> The B10K pot has channel imbalance, while the A10K pot the newer Muses Edition has doesn't. The volume scale is also different as the B10K pot is linear and A10K logarithmic, which means that there's more steps for low volume on the A10K pot. I'll be using the Essence One as a pre-amp for my speakers and with the B10K pot there just aren't enough steps for low/mid volume before it gets really loud, and the channel imbalance was clearly audible until ~9 o clock on the pot. I'm sure for some the B10K pot is just fine, but in my case it was a deal breaker.


 

 Thanks. Huh, I havent noticed any channel imbalance or volume scale issues with mine, but maybe Ill give ASUS a call and see if I can get them to swap it out for me anyway. Has anyone located a source to just buy the A10K pots so we can do the swap ourselves?


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> Thanks. Huh, I havent noticed any channel imbalance or volume scale issues with mine, but maybe Ill give ASUS a call and see if I can get them to swap it out for me anyway. Has anyone located a source to just buy the A10K pots so we can do the swap ourselves?


 
  B10K pot aren't reliable. Some are ok, some aren't (causes channel imbalance). For example on my XE1, the B10k pot on the preamp (Big knob) section has no channel imbalance issue. The headphone (smaller knob on the left) section did. So I ended up desoldering the two and swap them around. Problem solved. I always have the preamp section max out as all my stand alone amp have volume control.


----------



## leon995

I am interested about this, learning much from here. Thank you guys


----------



## shyamelge

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> B10K pot aren't reliable. Some are ok, some aren't (causes channel imbalance). For example on my XE1, the B10k pot on the preamp (Big knob) section has no channel imbalance issue. The headphone (smaller knob on the left) section did. So I ended up desoldering the two and swap them around. Problem solved. I always have the preamp section max out as all my stand alone amp have volume control.


 
  This is interesting.
   
  Did it involve complicated work or I could approach local repair shop/audio technician and they could do it easily and in minutes?


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





shyamelge said:


> This is interesting.
> 
> Did it involve complicated work or I could approach local repair shop/audio technician and they could do it easily and in minutes?


 
  Do you have an imbalance issue with your pot? If no, you don't need to do what I did. Plus it void your warranty, I had no choice as I bought my XE1 second hand and the owner didn't have receipt for it.


----------



## miandnan

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> Do you have an imbalance issue with your pot? If no, you don't need to do what I did. Plus it void your warranty, I had no choice as I bought my XE1 second hand and the owner didn't have receipt for it.


 
  Strange, at least with ASUS's pc products which does include the Xonar STX warranty is based on the Serial number.
   
  If you have the reciept the warranty period begins on the purchase date, if no receipt it defaults to start counting down from the date of manufacturing. Though there is a chance this audio centered DAC has a different warranty setup I would doubt it.
   
  I have needed to RMA an ASUS tablet, 4 monitors and a sound card (STX) all with in the past year and I never needed my receipt. I did need to give CC for temp hold on my card as they advanced RMA'd for me so that I knew the replacement was working !!! They also usually covered shipping both ways (even if they did not have to) ASUS is top notch with this kind of stuff. If anyone here has different info please correct me 
   
  That said I am waiting to hear back from the ASUS rep on here about my E1 as I have the imbalanced B10K pot on my headphone section and a grinding B10K pot on my preamp section 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. If I don't hear from him I will contact Asus General support but would rather speak to the AUDIO SPECIALIST  hehehe
   
  P.S. WISH the Muses edition was out when I bought my E1 !!!!!!!!
  Have some Heir Audio 8.A's and 6.A's on their way and want BALANCED channels and OPAMPS worthy of those great CIEMS !!!!
   
  edit: spelling and typos


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





miandnan said:


> Strange, at least with ASUS's pc products which does include the Xonar STX warranty is based on the Serial number.
> 
> If you have the reciept the warranty period begins on the purchase date, if no receipt it defaults to start counting down from the date of manufacturing. Though there is a chance this audio centered DAC has a different warranty setup I would doubt it.


 
   
  Not possible in my case as one of the WIMA 8200pF had sign of soldering iron damage/melting. I asked the original owner about it and he stated that how he got it from the shop. I tried RMA with ASUS, but they refused as they said it was physically damage by customer. Which lead me to mod the XE1 as much as I could. Can't really complain much as I got the DAC pretty cheap.


----------



## miandnan

That makes sense, once damaged warranty goes bye bye 

Glad you got a good price and were able to swap attenuators!


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> Thanks. Huh, I havent noticed any channel imbalance or volume scale issues with mine, but maybe Ill give ASUS a call and see if I can get them to swap it out for me anyway. Has anyone located a source to just buy the A10K pots so we can do the swap ourselves?


 
  If you have been following the thread, you can order the A10K through Taiwan (Alpha) who make them. Only problem is, it minimum 2000 order. Cost are $2.50 each @ 2000 unit. No one else, stocks them. Tried digikey, mouser, rs component, element 14, chip1shop, a few other company. Gave up after they all told me 2000 minimum order and no sample


----------



## ozorfis

*Problem solved*


----------



## ben_r_

Hit up the Head-Fi user ASUSXONAR about getting an E1 with the B10K pots swapped out for a new one and still havent heard back. I had read earlier in this thread that member works for ASUS and has helped others out with that issue before.


----------



## miandnan

Quote: 





ben_r_ said:


> Hit up the Head-Fi user ASUSXONAR about getting an E1 with the B10K pots swapped out for a new one and still havent heard back. I had read earlier in this thread that member works for ASUS and has helped others out with that issue before.


 
  I did the same thing about 5 days ago and have also heard nothing back, I see he has been on a few times since then.
   
  HOPE he responds to both of us!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  edit: in addition to imbalance I am having this exact problem as well http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/1710#post_9209002


----------



## cooltunes

How do I know if I have a Muses Edition with the B10K pots ?
  Also, is the gains switch an internal switch ?
  (I really don't want to open the case )


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





cooltunes said:


> How do I know if I have a Muses Edition with the B10K pots ?
> Also, is the gains switch an internal switch ?
> (I really don't want to open the case )


 
   
  You have to open the case and look.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





cooltunes said:


> How do I know if I have a Muses Edition with the B10K pots ?
> Also, is the gains switch an internal switch ?
> (I really don't want to open the case )


 

 The case was made to be opened easily. ASUS intended for people to be going in there swapping op amps. So dont worry its very easy and pretty quick too. 12 screws IIRC, 8 in the back, and four up front and the whole things slides on from the front.


----------



## TheManko

You only need to unscrew four on the front and the two middle ones on the back to open it.
   
  Here's a video to show how it's done http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JlMk74Fj6c


----------



## DMax99

Opening and shutting the case is super duper easy. I do it all the time


----------



## TheManko

I got my Essence One Muses Edition back and yeah there's no question the dac is vastly superior to the one in the HDVD 800. I only got quick impressions before as I used it for a day before going back to the store with it. When I then used the HDVD 800 again for a week and now went back to the Essence One the upgrade in quality going to the Muses Edition was clear.
   
  I'm really enjoying the combination of the Essence One as dac and HDVD 800 as amp. With the HD 800 it feels like the tone of the sound has been nudged in the right direction to make instruments sound completely natural, and if the recording is good enough vocalists just sound amazing. It's without a doubt the best I've ever heard the HD 800 sound in the now 3+ years I've had them. In the coming week I might be getting some more Muses01 op-amps, so it'll be interesting to hear if the Essence One sounds even better with all Muses01 in there.


----------



## palmfish

I would check and make sure the Muses are compatible with the other opamps you plan to swap. It would be a shame if you bricked your Essence One...


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





themanko said:


> I got my Essence One Muses Edition back and yeah there's no question the dac is vastly superior to the one in the HDVD 800. I only got quick impressions before as I used it for a day before going back to the store with it. When I then used the HDVD 800 again for a week and now went back to the Essence One the upgrade in quality going to the Muses Edition was clear.
> 
> I'm really enjoying the combination of the Essence One as dac and HDVD 800 as amp. With the HD 800 it feels like the tone of the sound has been nudged in the right direction to make instruments sound completely natural, and if the recording is good enough vocalists just sound amazing. It's without a doubt the best I've ever heard the HD 800 sound in the now 3+ years I've had them. In the coming week I might be getting some more Muses01 op-amps, so it'll be interesting to hear if the Essence One sounds even better with all Muses01 in there.


 
   
  Good to hear. Save me from wasting the money on the HDVD 800. Rather put the money into the HD-800's!


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





themanko said:


> I got my Essence One Muses Edition back and yeah there's no question the dac is vastly superior to the one in the HDVD 800. I only got quick impressions before as I used it for a day before going back to the store with it. When I then used the HDVD 800 again for a week and now went back to the Essence One the upgrade in quality going to the Muses Edition was clear.
> 
> I'm really enjoying the combination of the Essence One as dac and HDVD 800 as amp. With the HD 800 it feels like the tone of the sound has been nudged in the right direction to make instruments sound completely natural, and if the recording is good enough vocalists just sound amazing. It's without a doubt the best I've ever heard the HD 800 sound in the now 3+ years I've had them. In the coming week I might be getting some more Muses01 op-amps, so it'll be interesting to hear if the Essence One sounds even better with all Muses01 in there.


 
  Awesome write-up Manko, I agree the E1 muses is hard to beat
   
  I don't know of any dac under 2k that's better than E1 muses "SQ alone" which band snobs will never know


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





themanko said:


> I got my Essence One Muses Edition back and yeah there's no question the dac is vastly superior to the one in the HDVD 800. I only got quick impressions before as I used it for a day before going back to the store with it. When I then used the HDVD 800 again for a week and now went back to the Essence One the upgrade in quality going to the Muses Edition was clear.
> 
> I'm really enjoying the combination of the Essence One as dac and HDVD 800 as amp. With the HD 800 it feels like the tone of the sound has been nudged in the right direction to make instruments sound completely natural, and if the recording is good enough vocalists just sound amazing. It's without a doubt the best I've ever heard the HD 800 sound in the now 3+ years I've had them. In the coming week I might be getting some more Muses01 op-amps, so it'll be interesting to hear if the Essence One sounds even better with all Muses01 in there.


 
  This would put a big grin on XE1 owners face. Two people is not a coincidence.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/666037/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-amp-dac <<-- original post, selling XE1 to purchase the HDVD 800.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/668406/sennheiser-hdvd-800 <<-- Same seller ended up selling the HDVD 800 and another high end device instead of the XE1.
   
*TheManko *sell the HDVD 800 and get the HDVD600 instead as it the amp section of the HDVD800.


----------



## TheManko

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> *TheManko *sell the HDVD 800 and get the HDVD600 instead as it the amp section of the HDVD800.


 
  I've had the HDVD 800 for ~4 months and I don't think I'd end up saving enough to make it worth the hassle going to the HDVA 600 instead. The price difference between the two isn't that big, and I guess that's where the problem with the HDVD 800 dac comes in. They cheaped out on it compared to the amp.


----------



## ben_r_

There really isnt much out there on the HDVD 600. I wonder why it seems like no one buys it. Did it just recently make it to resellers or something?


----------



## TheManko

Yeah I believe it only just started showing up in stores. It wasn't released at the same time as the HDVD 800.


----------



## bizkid

Nice to read more comparisons of the Essence One. For me this is the most underrated piece of gear in the audio world ever and easily tops DACs costing way north of 1000$ (i actually did the comparisons...). The headphone amp is also a very capable performer though nowadays i only have low to mid impedance headphones and no planars to test it with.


----------



## Boomeh

Hi folks
   
  Forgive the rather beginner question but id like to play vinyl through the unbalanced left/right output on the essence one. So when I'm not playing digital files from the computer through the usb I can be listening to records through the same amp, however I'm struggling to see whether or not the original essence one actually has a pre-amp on it or not. 
   
  Do I need to run it through a separate pre-amp unit in order to accomplish this and if so what would be the best ideal setup for such a kit?
   
  I'm running the lcd-3 headphone and all i want the vinyl component for is for a bit of random 80s synthesizer music crossed with some jj cale from time to time  
   
  Thanks, folks


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





boomeh said:


> Hi folks
> 
> Forgive the rather beginner question but id like to play vinyl through the unbalanced left/right output on the essence one. So when I'm not playing digital files from the computer through the usb I can be listening to records through the same amp, however I'm struggling to see whether or not the original essence one actually has a pre-amp on it or not.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Essence One does not have an analog input. I wish it did...


----------



## Averruncus

Anyone know how the E1 compares to the Anedio D2 or Matrix X-Sabre? I'm looking for a good DAC to pair with a Phonitor when I _eventually_ get one... So i'm wondering if I should put the money into MUSES upgrade for my E1 (currently on LME49720s and LME49710s) or save up for a better DAC.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





averruncus said:


> Anyone know how the E1 compares to the Anedio D2 or Matrix X-Sabre? I'm looking for a good DAC to pair with a Phonitor when I _eventually_ get one... So i'm wondering if I should put the money into MUSES upgrade for my E1 (currently on LME49720s and LME49710s) or save up for a better DAC.


 
  Safe to say MUSES upgrade....


----------



## abvolt

This is really awesome to  see so many people liking the E1 muses edition and even liking it better then the HDVD 800. I've been putting off getting one for a time now just to see what others think of this dac hopefully this xmas I'll be joining you guys in owning one.


----------



## DMax99

abvolt said:


> This is really awesome to  see so many people liking the E1 muses edition and even liking it better then the HDVD 800. I've been putting off getting one for a time now just to see what others think of this dac hopefully this xmas I'll be joining you guys in owning one.





Definitely a good investment for under 400 bucks


----------



## Averruncus

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Safe to say MUSES upgrade....


 
  Wow... that's surprising to hear. Asus really outdid themselves with the E1.


----------



## Gandah

Just want to make things more clear when I said this a page back "_I don't know of any dac under 2k that's better than E1 *muses* "SQ alone_"
   
  I was referring to the  *Muses Edition, *or* Muses upgrade*, not standard or Plus edition or for any other opamp combo
   
  Sorry for any confusion my previous post has made, hopefully this post is now crystal clear.....


----------



## bizkid

In my opinion the muses edition is more of a different flavour than a technically more capable DAC vs the standard edition.


----------



## Averruncus

Well, as long as it stacks up with the competition I'm happy. The E1 is an absolute beauty especially compared to the other 1k range DACs. Well... time to save another few hundred for the op-amps...


----------



## ahhui90

I was thinking of getting a Fostex TH600 to go with essence one muses upgraded DAC, anyone have experiences of their synergy?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





ahhui90 said:


> I was thinking of getting a Fostex TH600 to go with essence one muses upgraded DAC, anyone have experiences of their synergy?


 

 Nice choice great headphone


----------



## Mach3

My final end game mod to my XE1 (MUSES 2.0 Mod), no more mod for a while. Finished replacing all electrolytic capacitors to Nichicon MUSES range (Fine Gold). Reflow all solder joints under the PCB, seem to have fix the imbalance issue with the preamp knob which I switch with the headphone. Was so excited to get it running, put everything together and realized I forgot to connect the data cable under the PCB. Dohhh.h......h.h....


----------



## Gandah

Awesome mate, looks professionally upgraded Gratz......
   
  How many man hours went into it including research?..... better question what the SQ like compared to standard?
   
  Very cool


----------



## abvolt

Very cool indeed awesome work man.


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Awesome mate, looks professionally upgraded Gratz......
> 
> How many man hours went into it including research?..... better question what the SQ like compared to standard?
> 
> Very cool


 
   
  Yeah thanks for the feedback. I tried to make it neat and clean as possible while maintaining the stock look. Giant caps floating on lead wire just looks so wrong.
  20-25 Hours went into reading the thread and learning from what other head fi member already know.
  Additional 30 hours researching component size/value/specs to make sure work they well after switching over stock components.
   
  12-14 hours to physically do all the modification. Stage in order, thermal pad for power supply, power supply caps, B10K volume switch over, decoupling WIMA caps. Nichicon electrolytic caps. Finalizing decoupling WIMA caps 1800pF/22nF. Reflow PCB and heatsink for DSP.
   
  As with impression, only had a quick listen to the LCD3 and & HD800. Still burning in, clarity seem to have improved on the LCD 3. The HD800 sounds a bit warmer than before the mods.
   


abvolt said:


> Very cool indeed awesome work man.


 
  Thanks for the comment. Really appreciate it


----------



## DMax99

Looks Awesome!!


----------



## bibo01

A few months ago there were talks about a new Asus announcement on this device. Any news?


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





bibo01 said:


> A few months ago there were talks about a new Asus announcement on this device. Any news?


 

 Yep I remember when *ASUSXONAR *said there was a upcoming announcement but unfortunate nothing has been said


----------



## mwindham08

I was watching the WAN show on the Linus tech tips channel on YouTube. They had JJ from Asus as a special guest and he said they were planning a new product to surpass the E1. Didn't give a time frame just said but was in the works


----------



## mwindham08

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DbKh77wSqPE&feature=plpp

Somewhere in this video. It's been a while since I watched it so can't remember the exact wording or where in the video it's mentioned


----------



## abvolt

Awesome thanks for the news I'll take a look..


----------



## DMax99

They weren't meaning the STU were they?


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





mach3 said:


> My final end game mod to my XE1 (MUSES 2.0 Mod), no more mod for a while. Finished replacing all electrolytic capacitors to Nichicon MUSES range (Fine Gold). Reflow all solder joints under the PCB, seem to have fix the imbalance issue with the preamp knob which I switch with the headphone. Was so excited to get it running, put everything together and realized I forgot to connect the data cable under the PCB. Dohhh.h......h.h....


 
   
  Nice modifications.
   
  It would of been nice if you were able to source the WIMA's all in FKP2, but i do know the 8200pF is a tough-y. I think i see a Kemet (sky blue) in there.
  The DSP and every other chip does not need a heatsink. I've tested it myself and they run fairly cool.
   
  How's the fine gold sound to you?
  Do you like it?


----------



## bibo01

It is around 33min.
   
  I was hoping for an announcement regarding DSD upgrade, rather than a new better product...


----------



## Gandah

I don't consider DSD a upgrade, just a added feature that is more gimmicky than useful, the only true DSD recordings are of live unmixed recordings, as far as I know mixed DSD recordings are PCM mixed before being re-sampled to DSD


----------



## bibo01

Yes, an added feature, a gimmicky or useful depends from point of view.
  I agree with you, but there are also DSD recordings from analog masters, some from Grim ADC and some mixed with Sonoma.


----------



## Mach3

mwindham08 said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DbKh77wSqPE&feature=plpp
> 
> Somewhere in this video. It's been a while since I watched it so can't remember the exact wording or where in the video it's mentioned


  Awesome find buddy. If this is true, I hope they will improve the noise floor as stated earlier in the thread the Xonar ST PCI has the upper hand.
     
  Quote:


dmax99 said:


> They weren't meaning the STU were they?


  STU was meant to fill in the gap between the Xonar Sound Card and the Essence One. It's definitely not a replacement for the XE1


   


curse said:


> Nice modifications.
> 
> It would of been nice if you were able to source the WIMA's all in FKP2, but i do know the 8200pF is a tough-y. I think i see a Kemet (sky blue) in there.
> The DSP and every other chip does not need a heatsink. I've tested it myself and they run fairly cool.
> ...


 


   Thanks Curse
   
  I was able to source the 8200pF and the 22nF in FKP2 however they don't sit flush and physically don't fit. The blue Caps aren't Kemet, they are 8200pF WIMA FKS2 5% (picture below). The best solution recommended by my electronic lecturer was to bypass them both with 1000pF 2.5% WIMA they are soldered under the board. I'll take a picture when I'm free.
   
  DSP didn't need the heatsink, I've only added it on as I had spare from a PC project and it look cool. Couldn't hurt with extra cooling right?
   
  As for the fine gold. Absolutely love them. Don't notice sound change via DAC/XLR section. But the AMP section is more musical after the mod.


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Mach3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Thanks Curse
> 
> I was able to source the 8200pF and the 22nF in FKP2 however they don't sit flush and physically don't fit. The blue Caps aren't Kemet, they are 8200pF WIMA FKS2 5% (picture below). The best solution recommended by my electronic lecturer was to bypass them both with 1000pF 2.5% WIMA they are soldered under the board. I'll take a picture when I'm free.
> ...


 
  It is definitely more musical.
  I noticed an improvement in bass extension/impact, sound separation, and more detailed mids.
   
  I recommend to mount them on the bottom, however it may be somewhat difficult if you do not own a solder sucker tool.
  Larger ones can go on top.
   
http://www.mediafire.com/view/xwxt6x9jsp0lbu2/7.JPG
http://www.mediafire.com/view/0ek68bcqr12fb1u/4.JPG

 Lastly, i do not recommend you or anyone to use Elna Silmic II capacitors.
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6802/5sl0.jpg
   
  They are very large and seem to only sound good with LME49710 (20) or MUSES01.


----------



## hifisteve

I just picked up the Muses edition and was having a hard time figuring out if I got all the firmware right, can anyone tell me if I'm up to date with it now? Below is what I am getting?
   
   
   
  Xonar Essence one Driver Version: 7.0.11.5
   
  Xonar Essence One F/W Version: 1.27
   
  Audio Chip F/W Version: 0111


----------



## Mach3

Quote: 





curse said:


> It is definitely more musical.
> I noticed an improvement in bass extension/impact, sound separation, and more detailed mids.
> 
> I recommend to mount them on the bottom, however it may be somewhat difficult if you do not own a solder sucker tool.
> ...


 
   
  I used a solder bath I bought from aliexpress $20 buck delivered to desolder most of the caps. On the caps near the data cable I found it was the easiest with solder wick. I've seen those pic from cssarrow earlier in the thread. It gave me huge inspirations and was the main reason why I went ahead and did my mold. I also bought those exact caps but ended up not going that route as it didn't look as clean (caps didn't sit flush). So I ended up soldering ultra low tolerance wima bypass caps on the bottom of the 8200pF and the 22nF instead. Either way will yield awesome crazy ass SOUND. 
   
  Totally agree, stick to Nichicon and WIMA caps. I'm sure ASUS knows best.
   
  Anyone wanting to do the same mod. I can forward you all the detail where to get all the caps needed for the mod.


----------



## TheManko

I got some fake Muses01 which I decided to try out. So the config was 6x genuine Muses01 and 3x fake Muses01 in the unbalanced and balanced outputs going to my speakers and HDVD 800 inputs. I'm impressed by how bad the fake Muses01 were, as they basically ruined the sound completely. I guess that might sound a bit like exaggeration, but the balance of the sound was tilted in the wrong direction (less bass, less treble, more mids) and there was a noticeable decrease in clarity as everything suddenly sounded a bit muddy. The Xonar Essence Muses Edition was transformed from something that used to be better than the HDVD 800 dac into something that was much worse than the HDVD 800 dac. This little experiment showed me how just a couple components are capable of ruining an otherwise excellent formula.


----------



## palmfish

themanko said:


> I got some fake Muses01 which I decided to try out. So the config was 6x genuine Muses01 and 3x fake Muses01 in the unbalanced and balanced outputs going to my speakers and HDVD 800 inputs. I'm impressed by how bad the fake Muses01 were, as they basically ruined the sound completely. I guess that might sound a bit like exaggeration, but the balance of the sound was tilted in the wrong direction (less bass, less treble, more mids) and there was a noticeable decrease in clarity as everything suddenly sounded a bit muddy. The Xonar Essence Muses Edition was transformed from something that used to be better than the HDVD 800 dac into something that was much worse than the HDVD 800 dac. This little experiment showed me how just a couple components are capable of ruining an otherwise excellent formula.




Without knowing the specifications of the fakes, its not surprising. Actually, you are probably lucky you didnt damage your E1...lol


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





themanko said:


> I got some fake Muses01 which I decided to try out. So the config was 6x genuine Muses01 and 3x fake Muses01 in the unbalanced and balanced outputs going to my speakers and HDVD 800 inputs. I'm impressed by how bad the fake Muses01 were, as they basically ruined the sound completely. I guess that might sound a bit like exaggeration, but the balance of the sound was tilted in the wrong direction (less bass, less treble, more mids) and there was a noticeable decrease in clarity as everything suddenly sounded a bit muddy. The Xonar Essence Muses Edition was transformed from something that used to be better than the HDVD 800 dac into something that was much worse than the HDVD 800 dac. This little experiment showed me how just a couple components are capable of ruining an otherwise excellent formula.


 
  I am very sorry to hear that.
   
  Where did you obtain these "fakes" and how did you find out there were what they were?
  Perhaps the print on top of the op-amps gave it away?
   


palmfish said:


> Without knowing the specifications of the fakes, its not surprising. Actually, you are probably lucky you didnt damage your E1...lol


   
  This.


----------



## TheManko

The print on top was obviously fake, with the waves being straight lines and triangles, and the face had the wrong proportions. Even the paint itself was brown instead of white, so on first glance before studying the pattern it was clear something was off with them. I tried them first on a Xonar Essence STX which I don't use anymore to see if they would burn up, and then I put them in the Essence One for the actual listening tests.


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





themanko said:


> The print on top was obviously fake, with the waves being straight lines and triangles, and the face had the wrong proportions. Even the paint itself was brown instead of white, so on first glance before studying the pattern it was clear something was off with them. I tried them first on a Xonar Essence STX which I don't use anymore to see if they would burn up, and then I put them in the Essence One for the actual listening tests.


 
  Ouch.

 I'm guessing those were obtained on ebay? Would of asked for a refund or thrown them out in the garbage.
  Right now i have 1 MUSES01 left from my previous modifications and i have no idea what to do with it.
   
  I've tried the MUSES01 in the unbalanced/balanced outputs but they did not satisfy me as much as the 49990 did.


----------



## TheManko

Quote: 





curse said:


> I'm guessing those were obtained on ebay?


 
  Yep, from ebay. It's a bit annoying that the majority of listings there seem to be fakes. Only a couple appear to be legit, like the Audiotrak one selling them for 79$ each.


----------



## wyddh

well, voltages may vary from time to time, as it is not stable right out of your wall. it may vary 10% from its peak to the trough


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





themanko said:


> Yep, from ebay. It's a bit annoying that the majority of listings there seem to be fakes. Only a couple appear to be legit, like the Audiotrak one selling them for 79$ each.


 

 Well what do you expect? The cheapest any of the US companies can seem to get them is in quantities of 100 for $5000 from Digi-Key. So anyone who wants to front the $5k to make legitimate ones available has to come up with a good chunk of chance and then since that ONLY gets you them for $50 a pop if you hope to make any money off the investment after the shipping to people, sales tax to buy them, ebay and paypal fees you have to mark them up and then no one wants to buy them from you because they are "too expensive". I have thought about doing it myself, but Id have to sell them for at least $65 each or so to even make it worth the $5000 up front Id have to come up with. You know what I mean?


----------



## ahhui90

Just get them off those japanese websites at 3500yen a piece. You can be sure you are getting real ones without being ripped off.


----------



## ben_r_

Quote: 





ahhui90 said:


> Just get them off those japanese websites at 3500yen a piece. You can be sure you are getting real ones without being ripped off.


 

 You can be? How exactly? And I dont speak japanese...


----------



## ahhui90

Check out the list of sellers on their website, get it shipped to a forwarder, pay shipping and... PROFIT!
Try Google Translator?


----------



## Curse

You can always hire a middle man but they take like 20%.
   
  Google translator works too, but not all the time.
   
  I have one MUSES01 left, unused going for 40 (ebay).


----------



## Gandah

Scumbugs selling fake whatever really pees me off, what type of a person would paint fake logos on opamps, its a sign of our stuff you Jack I'm alright world we live in. I know most people are honest but I feel one day we maybe outnumbered


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Scumbugs selling fake whatever really pees me off, what type of a person would paint fake logos on opamps, its a sign of our stuff you Jack I'm alright world we live in. I know most people are honest but I feel one day we maybe outnumbered


 
  Life is like that.
  Do anything to make a quick dollar.
   
  And again, i said this 60 threads ago, i still want your GS-X MK2.


----------



## ahhui90

I don't mind helping but cashing out on paypal is a PITA.


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





curse said:


> Life is like that.
> Do anything to make a quick dollar.
> 
> And again, i said this 60 threads ago, i still want your GS-X MK2.


 
  Yeah man, Justin still has a few GS-X's left in the second batch, if you got the money pull the trigger you won't regret it. I'm still paying off my setup but I have no regrets.


----------



## ahhui90

that fostex 
too bad i cant afford it. went for th600 instead


----------



## Gandah

Quote: 





ahhui90 said:


> that fostex
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would love to tryout the TH600 loads of people have both and say they compliment each other


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





gandah said:


> Yeah man, Justin still has a few GS-X's left in the second batch, if you got the money pull the trigger you won't regret it. I'm still paying off my setup but I have no regrets.


 
  Agreed. However, I realized you have a Calyx FEMTO. That just crushed my heart again.
   
  Now let's look back at mid-end Essence One and wheep.


----------



## Gandah

curse said:


> Agreed. However, I realized you have a Calyx FEMTO. That just crushed my heart again.
> 
> Now let's look back at mid-end Essence One and wheep.


 
 Out of the 2 dac's yes the Femto is better overall, however I have to be honest here and say not by as much as you would think, and I also think the E1 Muses edition has a better smoother top-end
  
 The price and SQ ratio between the two, Muses is way out in front


----------



## Curse

gandah said:


> Out of the 2 dac's yes the Femto is better overall, however I have to be honest here and say not by as much as you would think, and I also think the E1 Muses edition has a better smoother top-end
> 
> The price ratio between the two, Muses is way out in front


 
 Bravo.
  
 I wouldn't be too shocked to hear that actually. IMO, the sound does not change significantly with DAC change as they do with AMP's. The Sabre chips however does have more zing, but most of them are badly implemented where if you get one thing, you lose the other.
  
 Very nice to see you still checking the E1 thread.


----------



## Gandah

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm a big fan of the Muses Edition "SQ" and still promote it to people looking for a dac, but unfortunately most head-fiers are brand snobs so they miss out


----------



## dclaz

I'm really keen on grabbing an Essence one soon, I'm just really curious to how it compares to products like the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus? The E1 just seems to have better specs than way more expensive pieces of hardware, that said I know that SNR and THD aren't everything.
  
 Is the Muses edition really worth the premium? How much would it cost to buy the MUSES opamps and install them yourself? Or is there other improvements?


----------



## Curse

dclaz said:


> I'm really keen on grabbing an Essence one soon, I'm just really curious to how it compares to products like the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus? The E1 just seems to have better specs than way more expensive pieces of hardware, that said I know that SNR and THD aren't everything.
> 
> Is the Muses edition really worth the premium? How much would it cost to buy the MUSES opamps and install them yourself? Or is there other improvements?


 
  
 I've owned 4.
 If i were to get them or recommend them, i'd have to pick the MUSES version.
 You can buy 6 and install them yourself, however it's a little difficult to source them online. There are many fakes.


----------



## dclaz

curse said:


> I've owned 4.
> If i were to get them or recommend them, i'd have to pick the MUSES version.
> You can buy 6 and install them yourself, however it's a little difficult to source them online. There are many fakes.


 
  
 I see, the thing is, the MUSES edition costs like twice as much here. I can get a normal E1 for around $400AUD, but looks like the MUSES editions go for like $1K USD. 
  
 If I got the E1, would I ever regret not getting a more traditional DAC that was in the same price range?


----------



## Curse

I have messaged you.
 Should solve your problem.


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> I see, the thing is, the MUSES edition costs like twice as much here. I can get a normal E1 for around $400AUD, but looks like the MUSES editions go for like $1K USD.
> 
> If I got the E1, would I ever regret not getting a more traditional DAC that was in the same price range?


 
 "SQ alone" E1 *Muses edition* nothing up to 2k to my ears comes close.  E1 standard edition is big bang for you buck and can upgrade to muses edition, however standard edition isn't in the same ball park as the muses edition in SQ


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> "SQ alone" E1 *Muses edition* nothing up to 2k to my ears comes close.  E1 standard edition is big bang for you buck and can upgrade to muses edition, however standard edition isn't in the same ball park as the muses edition in SQ


 
  
 Got ya. So the Muses op amps, do they improve the specs, like SNR/THD and stuff and process signal more 'cleanly'? or do they just colour/reproduce signals/sound in ways that are more pleasant?
  
 Outside of "SQ" what else is important? The E1 looks like it has lots of features that more expensive hardware lacks too.
  
 I'm sorry for the poor communication, I know little about sound and audio hardware.


----------



## Curse

dclaz said:


> Got ya. So the Muses op amps, do they improve the specs, like SNR/THD and stuff and process signal more 'cleanly'? or do they just colour/reproduce signals/sound in ways that are more pleasant?
> 
> Outside of "SQ" what else is important? The E1 looks like it has lots of features that more expensive hardware lacks too.
> 
> I'm sorry for the poor communication, I know little about sound and audio hardware.


 
 Specification wise, it's not that "great". In terms of reproduction, it outputs a more neutral and pleasant sound signature with much better vocals, sound stage, and instrument separation. It is one of the best, if not the best op-amps i have found to date (surpasses second place LME49990 by a fair margin in my opinion). It sounds a little closer to a V sound, where the mid-range vocal is a bit more centralized than the other bits and pieces of background music. I prefer this, but audio is an iffy hobby so where one prefers, another can dislike.
  
 It has an internal power supply that regulates clean energy, separate volume controls, op-amp based for sound design, runs cool, great DAC IC's, and a pretty darn good multiple layer pcb to save room. Only negative i see about the Essence One is that it takes some time to tweak the sound the way you like it. Having that said, the output current is a little low and may only satisfy a few planar magnetic headphones such as HE400. I felt like the HE500 and LCD2 was super restricted, but hey, take my opinion with a grain of salt.


----------



## mwindham08

I agree it is restrictive with the lcd 2.


----------



## dclaz

curse said:


> Specification wise, it's not that "great". In terms of reproduction, it outputs a more neutral and pleasant sound signature with much better vocals, sound stage, and instrument separation. It is one of the best, if not the best op-amps i have found to date (surpasses second place LME49990 by a fair margin in my opinion). It sounds a little closer to a V sound, where the mid-range vocal is a bit more centralized than the other bits and pieces of background music. I prefer this, but audio is an iffy hobby so where one prefers, another can dislike.
> 
> It has an internal power supply that regulates clean energy, separate volume controls, op-amp based for sound design, runs cool, great DAC IC's, and a pretty darn good multiple layer pcb to save room. Only negative i see about the Essence One is that it takes some time to tweak the sound the way you like it. Having that said, the output current is a little low and may only satisfy a few planar magnetic headphones such as HE400. I felt like the HE500 and LCD2 was super restricted, but hey, take my opinion with a grain of salt.


 
  
 In terms of specs, what else is there to look out for? The E1 seems to have better SNR than almost everything I've seen. That said I know these sorts of things aren't everything. I'm just curious.
  
 I see. Well I had only planned to use them with a pair of something like the HD650's for now, and a pair of something like Swan M200 MKIII or T200 speakers down the road.


----------



## Curse

dclaz said:


> In terms of specs, what else is there to look out for? The E1 seems to have better SNR than almost everything I've seen.
> 
> I see. Well I had only planned to use them with a pair of something like the HD650's for now, and a pair of Swan M200 MKIII speakers down the road.


 
  
 You can't just go off SNR.
 Most tube amplifiers i know have much lower SNR and sound superb.
 120SNR is likely out of the audibility range anyhow.
  
 I would advise you to test it out for $400AUD, but to be honest the stock Essence is nowhere as good as the higher priced Muses unit. Most people should agree with me on that. The stock unit with NE5532 op-amps was made to be replaced/tweaked. It lacks an insane amount of detail, treble, and midrange. Everything sounds all syrupy and pushed back. Bass is also very loose and boomy.
  
 Since this is an appreciation thread, i do recommend you buy and try it out. If you don't like it, return it. However for the money, i recommend two different units instead. For example. Bifrost + Tube or SS Amplifier. Though that method would be a little more costly.


----------



## dclaz

curse said:


> You can't just go off SNR.
> Most tube amplifiers i know have much lower SNR and sound superb.
> 120SNR is likely out of the audibility range anyhow.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Got it. Cheers


----------



## TheManko

I got some genuine Muses01 today and just like how I was surprised by how the fake ones ruined the sound, the real ones improve the sound to an extent I find pleasantly surprising. I haven't listened for very long, about 30 minutes with my speakers and then another 30 minutes with the HD 800 via the HDVD 800. The change is that the character of the sound is sharper and better defined, with both good and bad aspects of songs coming into clearer focus. Especially on certain electronic bass samples there's a definite increase in speed as they start and stop, and I've noticed some male vocalists have a gravely or grainy quality to their voices which is coming through with a clarity I haven't heard before.
  
 Other aspects like separation between elements of the music and the size of the soundstage has increased as well, but it's the sharpness of focus that stood out as the most obvious change, as if a layer of crap has been removed from the sound and now I'm hearing the sound actually present on the recordings. The "bad" thing about this new sense of sharpness is that sibilants are a bit harder than they used to be, though still well within tolerable levels. It doesn't sound like the kind of horrible sibilance you get from crappy headphones. I remember some comments about the Muses01 having a "V" style sound, and I guess this would be that character coming into play since there's now a whole bunch of Muses01 in my Essence One Muses Edition. Every single song I've tried so far has had this new style of sound in its presentation. A proper upgrade in sound quality, not just a "change in flavor" or something like that.


----------



## Curse

themanko said:


> I got some genuine Muses01 today and just like how I was surprised by how the fake ones ruined the sound, the real ones improve the sound to an extent I find pleasantly surprising. I haven't listened for very long, about 30 minutes with my speakers and then another 30 minutes with the HD 800 via the HDVD 800. The change is that the character of the sound is sharper and better defined, with both good and bad aspects of songs coming into clearer focus. Especially on certain electronic bass samples there's a definite increase in speed as they start and stop, and I've noticed some male vocalists have a gravely or grainy quality to their voices which is coming through with a clarity I haven't heard before.
> 
> Other aspects like separation between elements of the music and the size of the soundstage has increased as well, but it's the sharpness of focus that stood out as the most obvious change, as if a layer of crap has been removed from the sound and now I'm hearing the sound actually present on the recordings. The "bad" thing about this new sense of sharpness is that sibilants are a bit harder than they used to be, though still well within tolerable levels. It doesn't sound like the kind of horrible sibilance you get from crappy headphones. I remember some comments about the Muses01 having a "V" style sound, and I guess this would be that character coming into play since there's now a whole bunch of Muses01 in my Essence One Muses Edition. Every single song I've tried so far has had this new style of sound in its presentation. A proper upgrade in sound quality, not just a "change in flavor" or something like that.


 
  
 I would be the one who commented about the V style sound. The pointy part being the vocal, while the back ends are the instruments and vocal fade-aways being well separated rather than all being meshed behind the main vocal. Everything before sounded like "v", "o", "■", they were all over the place. Those op-amps truly expand everything and like you said, not a change in flavor for varied preferences, but genuinely sounding better.
  
 How many were you able to obtain? If you have 6 total, that is deal.
 I have found 6 MUSES01 (I/V | LFP) and 49990 in the headphone outputs to sound best, but that's just me.


----------



## TheManko

I have a Essence One Muses Edition, so I got 3x more Muses01 for the unbalanced and balanced buffers. I don't use the headphone output, so 9x Muses01 is probably everything I'll ever need. The unbalanced output goes to my speakers (Nad C 375BEE and B&W CM8), while the balanced connection goes to the HDVD 800 I use to drive my HD 800 and LCD-2. I'm pleased with the difference it made with the speakers. The improved separation and wider soundstage improves the sensation of the speakers "disappearing" and the music filling the entire space in front of you in all directions. I'm also liking the slight shift in tone of the sound that came with the improved focus, precision, sharpness, resolution or whatever you want to call it. It feels like a step in the right direction toward realism. The Muses01 are pretty expensive when you buy several at once, but so far I'm more happy with the upgrade than I hoped to be. That's true of the Essence One in general. It's great.


----------



## abvolt

May I ask where you guys get the muses01 amps from any links would be helpful thanks.


----------



## Curse

abvolt said:


> May I ask where you guys get the muses01 amps from any links would be helpful thanks.


 
  
[Mod Edit: Links to the site of a banned member]


----------



## mwindham08

That eBay profile is actually cssarrow who bought my E1 and muses op amps thru head-fi. Glad they are still being enjoyed


----------



## Helium

All default cheap Nichicon KT caps are replaced  with Nichicon Muses KZ, Elna Silmic II, Wima FKP2, Vishay BC MKP418 and Nichicon FPCAP R7 
http://savepic.su/3288803.jpg
http://savepic.su/3290851.jpg
http://savepic.su/3283683.jpg
http://savepic.su/3281635.jpg
http://savepic.su/3335906.jpg
 Maybe this is of someone's interest how E1's board looks populated with huge Muse KZ and Silmic 2.
 Also changed all capacitors in power board (total 6) to bigger value Panasonic FR and Rubycon ZLH series.


----------



## Gandah

Interesting Helium,
  
 How does it sound now compared to standard or muses edition?


----------



## dclaz

Can you use standard headphones (ones that dont require an amp) with this unit? I've seen an odd post or two that state that its intolerably loud on headsets like HD-25's.
  
 Is the E1 considered fairly transparent? Is the muses edition considered 'more' transparent? Say compared to the ODAC?


----------



## dclaz

Which of 6 out of 11 op amps are replaced in the MUSES edition?
  
 edit: answered here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition/reviews/8824
  
 Is there much benefit in upgrading the others?


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> Which of 6 out of 11 op amps are replaced in the MUSES edition?
> 
> edit: answered here: http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition/reviews/8824
> 
> Is there much benefit in upgrading the others?


 
 Like chalk & cheese in comparison, Standard Edition SQ = the price you pay, and Muses Edition SQ = way more than it's price tag or it's upgrade price.
  
 I no longer own the upgraded E1 Muses Edition but still a big fan of its SQ, I haven't heard anything better up too 2k.
  
 Best thing to do is read through this thread to see how others view the Muses


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> Like chalk & cheese in comparison, Standard Edition SQ = the price you pay, and Muses Edition SQ = way more than it's price tag or it's upgrade price.
> 
> I no longer own the upgraded E1 Muses Edition but still a big fan of its SQ, I haven't heard anything better up too 2k.
> 
> Best thing to do is read through this thread to see how others view the Muses


 
  
 I mean, upgrading the 5 other opamps in the MUSES edition.
  
 I hear a lot that the Muses edition is as good as anything that costs up to 2k, and I find it interesting. What the hell are all the DAC's in the 1-2k price range doing, they should really start sounding indistinguishable given you're paying a lot for a piece of hardware that should be designed to `accurately' reproduce or convert a signal.


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> I mean, upgrading the 5 other opamps in the MUSES edition.
> 
> I hear a lot that the Muses edition is as good as anything that costs up to 2k, and I find it interesting. What the hell are all the DAC's in the 1-2k price range doing, they should really start sounding indistinguishable given you're paying a lot for a piece of hardware that should be designed to `accurately' reproduce or convert a signal.


 
 I think of it like this, Asus is a mainstream company which have buying power when buying parts in bulk, Boutique company's on the other hand do not


----------



## mwindham08

I used to own the E1 with Muses Op Amps. While I do enjoy my Audio-Gd NFB 7.1 better, and I do think it's a better dac,
 I would still recommend the Asus as it does punch well above it's weight. If the E1 was made by Schiit audio or someone like that
 it would get alot more traction around head-fi. 
  
 I started with the standard E1 and bought the opamps seperately. If you can afford it all at once though, just get the Muses edition.
 Having said that it may ruin some of the fun of rolling opamps as, IMO, the Muses are the best ones already.


----------



## PanzerIV

> Problem is, it best to get match serial MUSES01. So far I've seen 101, 201, 202, 204, 901. Not sure if any other serial exist.


 
 Me too I was wondering the question but again I doubt that it matters much. If you buy them all at once from the same guy anyway, shouldn't it all be from the same serial number?
  


> Muses has already been launched, if you go back 3-6 pages, one of the ASUS members gave a buying like, you'll also noticed that i recommend buying the Original Essence One and Muses01's separately as it is cheaper. Grab the MUSES Edition if you ever feel as though you'll be using In Ear Earphones with them, the MUSES Edition has a gain switch so it will not out blast IEM's.


 
 Ya I don't care at all about the "Gain Jumper" as no way I'll be using crappy earbudds on such thing and I even prefer the gold lion over the gray one. I can find the standard E1 for 525$ + 5% Taxe online while the Muses is pretty much at least 900$ everywhere and very hard to find. If the difference is only the opamp and so far no one on Internet seems to have tested both, they all tested either one or the other so none could compare and I highly doubt that the sound is 2x better with the Muses01. Usualy different opamp only means different sound, not necessary better at this point so I wonder if it's worth the money. If I'm to get them I'll just buy them it seperately on Aliexpress for 19$/Each rather than Asus who sells them for about 50$/each (-_-)


----------



## dclaz

panzeriv said:


> Me too I was wondering the question but again I doubt that it matters much. If you buy them all at once from the same guy anyway, shouldn't it all be from the same serial number?
> 
> Ya I don't care at all about the "Gain Jumper" as no way I'll be using crappy earbudds on such thing and I even prefer the gold lion over the gray one. I can find the standard E1 for 525$ + 5% Taxe online while the Muses is pretty much at least 900$ everywhere and very hard to find. If the difference is only the opamp and so far no one on Internet seems to have tested both, they all tested either one or the other so none could compare and I highly doubt that the sound is 2x better with the Muses01. Usualy different opamp only means different sound, not necessary better at this point so I wonder if it's worth the money. If I'm to get them I'll just buy them it seperately on Aliexpress for 19$/Each rather than Asus who sells them for about 50$/each (-_-)


 
  
 6moons compare the 3 different versions of the E1: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/1.html
 however I don't fully trust their reviews, I think they buy in to too much snake oil.


----------



## qqexpress

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-xia-08-/331024315194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1296333a
  
 real or fake anyone purchase from this seller before?


----------



## mwindham08

This is who I bought mine from. they are expensive but they are real.
 That was a year ago though. Probably more options now.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab4e35e10


----------



## Gandah

mwindham08 said:


> This is who I bought mine from. they are expensive but they are real.
> That was a year ago though. Probably more options now.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab4e35e10


 
  
 +1
  
 Got my muses there too


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> +1
> 
> Got my muses there too


 
  
 Indeed, they are a fair bit more expensive than some of the others going on ebay. Probably worth it for the piece of mind though


----------



## PanzerIV

mwindham08 said:


> This is who I bought mine from. they are expensive but they are real.
> That was a year ago though. Probably more options now.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/320862379536?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab4e35e10


 
 Umm.. What is the point of buying it from this guy who sell them for 60$ if it's gonna cost you almost exactly the same as buying the Muse edition directly from day 1?! I would rather avoid all this trouble and pay an extra 50$ to get the Muse edition as there is no real money saving at 60 x 6 (-_-)


----------



## dclaz

panzeriv said:


> Umm.. What is the point of buying it from this guy who sell them for 60$ if it's gonna cost you almost exactly the same as buying the Muse edition directly from day 1?! I would rather avoid all this trouble and pay an extra 50$ to get the Muse edition as there is no real money saving at 60 x 6 (-_-)


 
  
 The standard E1 can be bought in Australia for $400-420 AUD, the MUSES edition seems only available on ebay to us at around $1100 AUD.


----------



## mwindham08

panzeriv said:


> Umm.. What is the point of buying it from this guy who sell them for 60$ if it's gonna cost you almost exactly the same as buying the Muse edition directly from day 1?! I would rather avoid all this trouble and pay an extra 50$ to get the Muse edition as there is no real money saving at 60 x 6 (-_-)


 
  
 If someone doesn't have 1100 AUD laying around but does have 400. Sometimes its easier for people to spend 1100 after saving for months than it is to spend it all at once.


----------



## dclaz

Do you guys turn off your E1 when not in use? Any reason to not keep it on beside power use? (Would it even use much when not actively converting signals?)


----------



## PanzerIV

dclaz said:


> The standard E1 can be bought in Australia for $400-420 AUD, the MUSES edition seems only available on ebay to us at around $1100 AUD.


 
 It sucks that no one in Australia ships internationnaly as it would be like 100$ cheaper than in Canada (-_-).

 Looks like I'll have to settle for the standard edition then try to find someone who doesn't scam people and sell REAL muse01 opamps at a reasonable price "maximum 50$/each" because according to the dumb girl to who I've spoke on Asus's chat support, the Plus and Muses editions are discountinued since an unknown time for an unknown reason, which would explain the extreme shortage of the product worldwide and the fact no one have a single one in stock in the whole damn Canada... I just find it really lame from Asus for not explaining us why and to still be listing the product on their website if it doesn't exist anymore. Here's the chat transcription if anyone is curious about what she said about it.

 http://uppix.net/p1wiia.jpg
 http://uppix.net/XsN1KP.jpg
 http://uppix.net/ZXTxCy.jpg


----------



## dynamics

Am I the only that notices the left channel being more dominant on Muses?  It's weird the left channel seems everything is more pronounced and seems cleaner than the right channel.  Could this be due to the recordings/track or does the Muses have issues with stereo imaging?
  
 That is extremely strange.
  
 It's with almost every track like that.  I don't think it's every track that's badly mixed/produced.
  
 Anyone else notice this issue?


----------



## daerron

Swap your opamps around and see if the balance changes, otherwise it might be the volume pot or you might have a noticeable imbalance between the drivers on your headphones. If there is an imbalance on the volume pot or on the opamps, I am sure that you should be able to get the unit exchanged.


----------



## dclaz

How can we quantify the effect of op amps without using subjective terms such as warmth and soundstage?
  
 Is there ways to objectively determine the differences op amps make to the output of something like the E1, based on the specifications of the op amp itself? I ask because very few have the resources or are willing to make the usual measurements with difference op amps that could describe the performance of a DAC/amp.


----------



## dynamics

I think this is what ASUS XONAR was talking about the "big announcement," but we never received the news.
  
 ASUS Launches Essence III:  http://www.techpowerup.com/192647/asus-launches-essence-iii-preamplifier-usb-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.html
  
 That looks beautiful and an upgrade from the Asus Essence One Muses.


----------



## TheManko

On paper it looks like a pretty comprehensive and ultimate solution. Balanced outputs, stepped attenuators, remote control, DSD. Everything including the kitchen sink. Now the question is, how much will it cost? Are they using Muses02 to cut costs, or because they sound better in this particular configuration compared to the Muses01?


----------



## palmfish

Looks lovely!

Im all in if its less than $1500.


----------



## mwindham08

If the knobs are plastic again though I'm going to be disappointed.


----------



## palmfish

Speaking of knobs, how does one control a stepped attenuator by remote control?


----------



## TheManko

I guess it'll have a motor which physically turns the knob when you press up and down on the remote. That's how stereo amps with stepped attenuators do it at least.


----------



## palmfish

Hmm, Ive never used a receiver with a stepped attenuator. Maybe Im thinking of the wrong type of volume control? When I think of stepped attenuators, I think of the ones like Burson uses - which have pretty firm "clicks" for each step. I can't imagine a motor doing that.


----------



## TheManko

The Cambridge 840A uses stepped attenuators. It has a display that shows the volume change in 1db steps like a surround receiver, except you hear clicks with each step from the knob.


----------



## palmfish

I didnt know that. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Gandah

Looks amazing, I love the retro look, looks like the STU dac. The only thing I'm not quite sure about is the balanced mini-XLR connectors, not that I'm unhappy about balance HP's out but rather why use mini-XLR I think this Maybe a deal-breaker for some people who already have balance cables and don't want to use ugly adapters. 4 Pin or 3 pin SE combo jacks would of been a better choice I feel
  
 What I really like is the RCA AUX input this is going to give people with old analog transports new life.....


----------



## dynamics

Anyone know when this might get released? Or be available for purchase?


----------



## palmfish

I personally think this XLR headphone cable thing is a ridiculous fad. Unfortunately, it seems to have become a requirement for any amp to be considered "high end" even though it adds nothing to sound quality (except the perceived quality increase caused by higher gain).

The good news is that it will give this Asus "audiophile cred" and doesnt detract from the sound in any way. The bad bews is that it will no doubt make this component more expensive than it otherwise might have been.


----------



## winterandsummer

those are male xlr (output) for active monitor 
 (as oppose to female xlr (inputs) for headphones )


----------



## Gandah

palmfish said:


> I personally think this XLR headphone cable thing is a ridiculous fad. Unfortunately, it seems to have become a requirement for any amp to be considered "high end" even though it adds nothing to sound quality (except the perceived quality increase caused by higher gain).
> 
> The good news is that it will give this Asus "audiophile cred" and doesnt detract from the sound in any way. The bad bews is that it will no doubt make this component more expensive than it otherwise might have been.


 
 Not that long ago I would of agreed with you and still do when it comes to low impedance HPs, but now owning a balanced setup I now know I prefer and enjoy balanced more especially using high impedance HPs
  


winterandsummer said:


> those are male xlr (output) for active monitor
> (as oppose to female xlr (inputs) for headphones )


 
 Really? I find it very hard to believe they are for monitor speakers located on the front panel, bit silly if this is true.
  
 Can anyone confirm this plz?


----------



## winterandsummer

gandah said:


> located on the front panel


 

 oh right, got confuse with those in the back...


----------



## TheManko

palmfish said:


> I personally think this XLR headphone cable thing is a ridiculous fad. Unfortunately, it seems to have become a requirement for any amp to be considered "high end" even though it adds nothing to sound quality (except the perceived quality increase caused by higher gain).
> 
> The good news is that it will give this Asus "audiophile cred" and doesnt detract from the sound in any way. The bad bews is that it will no doubt make this component more expensive than it otherwise might have been.


 
 Asus are definitely throwing in every feature anyone could possibly think to ask for with this one, like DSD. It'd be a miracle if DSD became popular. I'd be shocked if the number of people who care about DSD are in the 4 digits. But since it's a feature several audiophile dacs have it's there, just like the balanced outputs both front and back. It's going to be everything for everyone, and if the price is right it has the potential to be a no-brainer for anyone interested in a high end dac+amp.


----------



## palmfish

^^
100% agree.

DSD is the answer to a question nobody is asking...lol.


----------



## Gandah

palmfish said:


> ^^
> 100% agree.
> 
> DSD is the answer to a question nobody is asking...lol.


 
 Yep DSD is the ridiculous fad........ 98% of DSD banded recordings are PCM mixed prior, so really what is the benefit 2% one take pure DSD


----------



## palmfish

gandah said:


> Yep DSD is the ridiculous fad........ 98% of DSD banded recordings are PCM mixed prior, so really what is the benefit 2% one take pure DSD




Its the old SACD vs. DVD-A debate all over again.


----------



## PanzerIV

That's really good news as I was wondering if there would be a new product release soon but obviously Asus reps never know anything or they try to make us believe so as I've asked their chat and email support 2 weeks ago and they knew nothing (-_-). It doesn't surprise me with the STU that will be the lower-end model, the Essence One middle range and the Essence III their new high-end. I just hope it's not about 1000$ just because of some new fancy features that most of us will prolly not use. Anyhow it's good to know as I just bought an E1 and I have 30 days to return it so I will definitely send it back knowing that a better unit is on the way soon!

 I've got a few questions however so far from my current use of the E1:
  
*1-* I get some very very small buzzing sound through my speakers when moving my mouse but it only happens if...
               *** My gaming mouse is set to 1000Hz. At 500Hz it's 2-3x less perceptible and not at all at 125Hz.
               *** If I move my mouse at 1000Hz on a darker background. If I open my browser and that it's all white, I get no buzzing at all.
               *** It only happens when using the E1 through USB.
               *** PS: I'm on the latest driver _(8.0.11.6)_, Audio Chip Firmware _(0111)_ but only the E1 Firmware _(1.23)_ as I cannot update the MCU's firmware as when I open the program and click "connect" while in maintenance mode, it just won't connect... lame PoS!

*2-* What is the difference in sound quality if you're connected through SPDIF rather than USB? I think I read the E1 only upsample in USB but I'm not sure. I remember there was a limitation from spdif that usb didn't have but I can't remember what exactly. I use an (Auzentech X-Meridian 2G) with upgraded Opamps, what happens if I use the optical out from this card rather than usb?


----------



## TheManko

panzeriv said:


> *1-* I get some very very small buzzing sound through my speakers when moving my mouse but it only happens if...
> *** My gaming mouse is set to 1000Hz. At 500Hz it's 2-3x less perceptible and not at all at 125Hz.
> *** If I move my mouse at 1000Hz on a darker background. If I open my browser and that it's all white, I get no buzzing at all.
> *** It only happens when using the E1 through USB.
> ...


 
 Sounds like noise is being generated by the motherboard and getting into the Essence One. I've got similar problems with noise like that, but only with my HDVD 800 and my graphics card HDMI out. It doesn't affect my Essence One. Having had this problem for a while I've read up on it quite a bit and it's something that just seems to happen with certain motherboards. Try using a different USB port on your motherboard and see if that helps. USB2 and USB3 ports use different controllers, so that might isolate it. It didn't work in my case, but on other forums people have reported it working. Another solution is turning off power saving features on your motherboard like C1 state support. Only do this if you're familiar with BIOS settings though. This didn't solve it in my case either, but again it's something I've seen reported as a solution.
  
 SPDIF and USB should sound the same on the Essence One. Theoretically there can be a difference in jitter between the two since the signals are going through different components. But as far as I know the Essence One uses good stuff on all the ports, so it should be a negligible difference. Upsampling works on all the ports.


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> Yep DSD is the ridiculous fad........ 98% of DSD banded recordings are PCM mixed prior, so really what is the benefit 2% one take pure DSD


 
 There wouldn't happen to be a list of TRUE DSD material would there?


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> There wouldn't happen to be a list of TRUE DSD material would there?


 
http://bluecoastrecords.com/ is a good start for live one-take DSD recordings


----------



## palmfish

Cool! I have never heard of them. 

Of course, you can download their albums at 44 and 96k PCM too...for less money.


----------



## leeperry

panzeriv said:


> I get some very very small buzzing sound through my speakers when moving my mouse but it only happens if...
> *** My gaming mouse is set to 1000Hz. At 500Hz it's 2-3x less perceptible and not at all at 125Hz.


 
  
 It's time to use a discrete PCI/PCI-E USB board for the One IMHO, but you could first try breaking the 5V pin of the USB cable that goes to the One as this might very well save the day.
  
  


palmfish said:


> DSD is the answer to a question nobody is asking...lol.


 
 Couldn't have said it better


----------



## ASUSXONAR

themanko said:


> On paper it looks like a pretty comprehensive and ultimate solution. Balanced outputs, stepped attenuators, remote control, DSD. Everything including the kitchen sink. Now the question is, how much will it cost? Are they using Muses02 to cut costs, or because they sound better in this particular configuration compared to the Muses01?


 
 MUSES02 for sound. This won't be on sale in every region though. Expect circa $1300~$1500 for this where sold I think.


----------



## TheManko

asusxonar said:


> MUSES02 for sound. This won't be on sale in every region though. Expect circa $1300~$1500 for this where sold I think.


 
 Nice. That price seems reasonable for the upgrade over a Essence One Muses Edition.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

I heard a prototype early this year - it has more of an "analog" sound signature compared to the E-One.


----------



## PanzerIV

themanko said:


> Nice. That price seems reasonable for the upgrade over a Essence One Muses Edition.


 

 Well, it's kinda hard to say now that it's an upgrade toward the "E1 Muses Edition" as these Asus bastards just never told us it was actualy a VERY LIMITED edition that is now permanently discountinued since a long time ago. Same thing for the "Plus Edition" that seemed to have been gone even faster. I think they still make though the standard E1 but it's still in short supply.

 What I wonder though is if this thing is really gonna cost ~1300$, will it really sound A LOT better than a standard E1 that cost only 525$ + 5% Taxes?! Hell that's almost 3 time as much so the difference better not be slight! :/


----------



## TheManko

panzeriv said:


> What I wonder though is if this thing is really gonna cost ~1300$, will it really sound A LOT better than a standard E1 that cost only 525$ + 5% Taxes?! Hell that's almost 3 time as much so the difference better not be slight! :/


 
 A lot of the extra cost comes from the fact that they're packing in so many features this time and not skimping on quality. Stepped attenuator volume controls are much more expensive than the standard ones most use because of the number of parts it requires. The power supply has also been upgraded, as is the dac chips themselves, and there's more inputs and outputs. Across the board there's more of everything, and it's of higher quality. It all adds up. Will it sound significantly better? That remains to be seen!


----------



## palmfish

If it is well engineered and built (and there's no reason to think otherwise), then it should sound basically the same as the Essence One - because the E1 is well engineered and built.

The buying public will decide if the higher quality parts and added features are worth the price premium.


----------



## ben_r_

Huh, I like what I see and read here, BUT its going to have to be A LOT less than $1300 to get me to upgrade to it.


----------



## dclaz

asusxonar said:


> I heard a prototype early this year - it has more of an "analog" sound signature compared to the E-One.


 
 To most people on this forum, this might sound like a good thing.. but to me it just says 'less transparent'. 
  
 It does look an amazing product though. But outside my price range.


----------



## Suopermanni

That's interesting news about the Essence III. I personally would like to know IF it will be released in Australia. I know with some certainty that the STU and standard E1 was available there.


----------



## PanzerIV

ben_r_ said:


> Huh, I like what I see and read here, BUT its going to have to be A LOT less than $1300 to get me to upgrade to it.


 
 Same thing for me. Considering the E1 is 525$, I clearly won't spend more than TWICE that much as it's deeeefinitely not gonna sound any close to 2x better so that's why I was saying screw it if it's gonna be almost 3x pricier for being just a little better. I hate when they add  up so many more I/O that I will never use, only to justify a higher price as all I need is the 2 unbalanced outputs to my receiver and the headphone input. I agree though that an Aux input could proove useful though I already have all my music on my computer so no need to hook up my mp3 player on it.

 I wonder though, if there's an analogue input this time, does it mean I will be able to plug an old vinyl turntable on it or because of the whole "Phono In to Line-Out" thing I wouldn't be able to?


----------



## palmfish

panzeriv said:


> Same thing for me. Considering the E1 is 525$, I clearly won't spend more than TWICE that much as it's deeeefinitely not gonna sound any close to 2x better so that's why I was saying screw it if it's gonna be almost 3x pricier for being just a little better. I hate when they add  up so many more I/O that I will never use, only to justify a higher price as all I need is the 2 unbalanced outputs to my receiver and the headphone input. I agree though that an Aux input could proove useful though I already have all my music on my computer so no need to hook up my mp3 player on it.
> 
> 
> I wonder though, if there's an analogue input this time, does it mean I will be able to plug an old vinyl turntable on it or because of the whole "Phono In to Line-Out" thing I wouldn't be able to?




Its the law of diminishing returns. You never get "twice the performance" for double the cost. The Essence One is twice the price of the O2/ODAC and doesnt offer twice the performance. You just have to decide where to draw the line.


----------



## Gandah

I now have the Calyx FEMTO dac and I can honestly say it's not twice as good as my old E1 Muses edition, however I would say it is twice as good as the E1 standard easily.... If I was to guesstimate because I no longer have the E1, I would say the muses edition is 85% SQ of the femto, which is a lot of money for a 15% gain
  
 I'm looking forward to hearing the new flagship, and if the percentage above is decreased or somewhat equal I may end up with the new dac


----------



## midnightfox

panzeriv said:


> Well, it's kinda hard to say now that it's an upgrade toward the "E1 Muses Edition" as these Asus bastards just never told us it was actualy a VERY LIMITED edition that is now permanently discountinued since a long time ago. Same thing for the "Plus Edition" that seemed to have been gone even faster. I think they still make though the standard E1 but it's still in short supply.
> 
> What I wonder though is if this thing is really gonna cost ~1300$, will it really sound A LOT better than a standard E1 that cost only 525$ + 5% Taxes?! Hell that's almost 3 time as much so the difference better not be slight! :/


 
  
  
 Upgrading my Essence One Standard Edition with the Muses01 provided me with a very nice upgrade to my ears. 
 When it comes to upgrading your audio, the increments get smaller and smaller when it comes to higher grade audio but to many people they can justify the extra costs for the best possible audio in there price bracket. 
  
 I'm looking forward to finding out more information and a preview/review when it comes out later this year.


----------



## Mach3

gandah said:


> Looks amazing, I love the retro look, looks like the STU dac. The only thing I'm not quite sure about is the balanced mini-XLR connectors, not that I'm unhappy about balance HP's out but rather why use mini-XLR I think this Maybe a deal-breaker for some people who already have balance cables and don't want to use ugly adapters. 4 Pin or 3 pin SE combo jacks would of been a better choice I feel
> 
> What I really like is the RCA AUX input this is going to give people with old analog transports new life.....


 
 Can't wait for Asus to offically release this so I can void the warranty  Those blue nichicon capacitors looks like they need a touch of fine gold upgrade!


----------



## Gandah

mach3 said:


> Can't wait for Asus to offically release this so I can void the warranty  Those blue nichicon capacitors looks like they need a touch of fine gold upgrade!


 
 LOL


----------



## dclaz

dclaz said:


> Do you guys turn off your E1 when not in use? Any reason to not keep it on beside power use? (Would it even use much when not actively converting signals?)


 
  
 Anyone?
  


dclaz said:


> How can we quantify the effect of op amps without using subjective terms such as warmth and soundstage?
> 
> Is there ways to objectively determine the differences op amps make to the output of something like the E1, based on the specifications of the op amp itself? I ask because very few have the resources or are willing to make the usual measurements with difference op amps that could describe the performance of a DAC/amp.


 
  
 I know it has been discussed a lot in this thread, but are there specific op amp setups apart from the 6x MUSES that are considered to give a noticeable improvement over stock?


----------



## daws0n

I upgraded my standard E1 with 6 x LME9720HAs, far cheaper than muses and a noticeable improvement in SQ.


----------



## PanzerIV

daws0n said:


> I upgraded my standard E1 with 6 x LME9720HAs, far cheaper than muses and a noticeable improvement in SQ.


 

 Is it best to upgrade the 6 opamps with all the SAME model or it could be better to mix with 2-3 different type?

 Most of the time when I read around, the one that seems to come up the most often is the (_LM47920HA_). I still wonder though why Asus didn't use something like that instead of the 5532 if they are clearly better as they don't cost an arm like the Muse01 which appears to be overpriced and very rare for no reason. If for 1 guy the 47920 don't cost too much, it would have cost nothing with the buying power of Asus and when you pay 600$ for a unit, you expect that it uses opamps better than something average at 5$ (-_-)

 Do you guys also upgrade/change the headphone opamp or it's better not to touch at this one?


----------



## palmfish

Some people don't believe that different opamps, capacitors, resistors, etc. have any effect on the sound unless they are changing parameters/specs.
  
 The 5532 is a very fine opamp that has nothing about it to suggest it compromises sound quality.


----------



## dclaz

palmfish said:


> Some people don't believe that different opamps, capacitors, resistors, etc. have any effect on the sound unless they are changing parameters/specs.
> 
> The 5532 is a very fine opamp that has nothing about it to suggest it compromises sound quality.


 
This post couldn't possibly be accurate could it?
  
 I'm interested in experimenting with changing opamps, mainly to see if I can actually tell a difference... Do the MUSES01 have the same specs as the stock op amps?
  
 I imagine the DAC is based around the opamps doing a specific task in a certain way? I'd want to avoid buying opamps that might cause issues/complications or using opamps that clearly don't fit the specific design/requirement as engineered by Asus.


----------



## Norway

I see that there has been a lot of discussion about the imbalance problem here earlier, but that the newer units have new A10 pots which does not have this issue. My unit has the sucky pots, hence replacement is imminent. Did you guys locate somewhere to buy these in small quantities, like two?


----------



## Gandah

norway said:


> I see that there has been a lot of discussion about the imbalance problem here earlier, but that the newer units have new A10 pots which does not have this issue. My unit has the sucky pots, hence replacement is imminent. Did you guys locate somewhere to buy these in small quantities, like two?


 
 Mach3, found a supplier for the A10, but unfortunately you had to buy in bulk of 100 so it never eventuated. I'm pretty sure he swap the b10s around which fixed the balance problem, however this will only work if one of your pots are good and also how you intended use your dac
  
 I no longer own the E1 dac because both b10s had balance issues. great dac especially with the muses but the b10 pots ruined it for me
  
 PS: When are you going to review the TH900s? I liked your last review on the heed amp and was quite impressed with the functionality of the Mytek


----------



## Mach3

gandah said:


> Mach3, found a supplier for the A10, but unfortunately you had to buy in bulk of 100 so it never eventuated. I'm pretty sure he swap the b10s around which fixed the balance problem, however this will only work if one of your pots are good and also how you intended use your dac


 
  
 Actually, it was minimum 1000 and it where about 2-3 dollars each can't remember. Excluding shipping cost by the way (so you do the math, not an ideal scenario)
  
 Can't wait for the Essence III to come out, just hate how company like to announce **** they don't have a release date for. Pointless hype if you ask me.


----------



## PanzerIV

mach3 said:


> Can't wait for the Essence III to come out, just hate how company like to announce **** they don't have a release date for. Pointless hype if you ask me.


 
 Yea... pointless as hell, mostly if it's not to be out anytime soon and even more stupid if it's without price!


----------



## dynamics

gandah said:


> Mach3, found a supplier for the A10, but unfortunately you had to buy in bulk of 100 so it never eventuated. I'm pretty sure he swap the b10s around which fixed the balance problem, however this will only work if one of your pots are good and also how you intended use your dac
> 
> I no longer own the E1 dac because both b10s had balance issues. great dac especially with the muses but the b10 pots ruined it for me
> 
> PS: When are you going to review the TH900s? I liked your last review on the heed amp and was quite impressed with the functionality of the Mytek


 

 I see in your sig it says your are using the TH900s, how do you like them?
  
 I used a pair of Denon D7000s for years and recently sold them.  But I miss that sound signature and I am looking to get the Fostex TH900.  I hear they are very similar as far as sound goes.  Would you recommend them to someone who was a fan of the Denon's?


----------



## Norway

gandah said:


> Mach3, found a supplier for the A10, but unfortunately you had to buy in bulk of 100 so it never eventuated. I'm pretty sure he swap the b10s around which fixed the balance problem, however this will only work if one of your pots are good and also how you intended use your dac
> 
> I no longer own the E1 dac because both b10s had balance issues. great dac especially with the muses but the b10 pots ruined it for me
> 
> PS: When are you going to review the TH900s? I liked your last review on the heed amp and was quite impressed with the functionality of the Mytek


 
  
 Hia!
  
 What a shame. I doubt ASUS will be helpful with shipping out the B10 pots to people who want to replace them too...
  
 About TH-900. I recently moved to a new location and offloaded a lot of stuff to buy some speakers, TH-900 was one of the headphones I sold. I know a lot of people wil disagree with me on this, but I think they were treble hot. Tried using Equalizer APO (open source equalizing software) to tame them down a bit, and they were much more enjoyable then. Also, I was expecting TH900 to have the same physical midbass punch as Denon AH-D7000 but with better overall soundquality and deeper bass.
  
 They did run deeper, had more details and a broader soundstage, but they lacked the midbass punch of D7000. The deep bass was great, but the treble hit something with me and didn't work out. I'm a huge fan of D7000 and I was expecting to get something else which could ultimately replace the D7000's, however, that turned out to be wrong. Actually, I don't think D7000 and TH-900 has as much in common as has been said. If they didn't look that similar, I doubt people would be mentioning them in the same sentence all the time.
  
  


mach3 said:


> Actually, it was minimum 1000 and it where about 2-3 dollars each can't remember. Excluding shipping cost by the way (so you do the math, not an ideal scenario)
> 
> Can't wait for the Essence III to come out, just hate how company like to announce **** they don't have a release date for. Pointless hype if you ask me.


 
  
 Do you know the parts number of the B10 pots, please?
  


dynamics said:


> I see in your sig it says your are using the TH900s, how do you like them?
> 
> I used a pair of Denon D7000s for years and recently sold them.  But I miss that sound signature and I am looking to get the Fostex TH900.  I hear they are very similar as far as sound goes.  Would you recommend them to someone who was a fan of the Denon's?


 
  
 I think my comments about D7k and TH-900 above can be a little helpful. However, note that there is not a lot of people who agree with me that TH-900 is treble hot, and even people who are sensitive to sibilance can be sensitive to different frequency intervals.
  
 Wish they would just start producing D7000 again under a new name. We could start a thread on that and see how many would be interested, maybe Fostex would do it if enough people showed interest.


----------



## Mach3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norway

Do you know the parts number of the B10 pots, please?

Did not go searching for the B10 pot. 
I got a quote for the A10 pot as it was superior to the B10 which is why new standard essence one come with them instead of the B10. 
Also volume adjustment is more linear.

Product code: RD904F-20-15F-A10K-00D
Manufacturer: TAIWAN ALPHA
Minimum Order: 1000
Cost Per Unit: $1.91
Delivery: 4-6 Weeks


----------



## Norway

mach3 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Norway
> 
> Do you know the parts number of the B10 pots, please?
> ...


 
  
 Thank you. I mixed up as the goal is to replace the B10's with a pair of A10's to get rid of the imbalance issues on both outputs.


----------



## Gandah

dynamics said:


> I see in your sig it says your are using the TH900s, how do you like them?
> 
> I used a pair of Denon D7000s for years and recently sold them.  But I miss that sound signature and I am looking to get the Fostex TH900.  I hear they are very similar as far as sound goes.  Would you recommend them to someone who was a fan of the Denon's?


 
 Absolutely, the TH900 is said by many to be best sounding closed-back HP on the market today closely followed by W3000ANV.  The sound signature of the D7000 and TH900 is similar in the way as soon as you hear both you know they are closely related, however you soon realise that TH900 is the big brother of the 2 with its tighter beeper bass, and with its more forward clearer midrange, overall it has more refined detailed sound.
  
 Before you decide on buying new HPs, If you get a chance to audition the TH900s you should, considering you already know the D7000s


norway said:


> Hia!
> 
> About TH-900. I recently moved to a new location and offloaded a lot of stuff to buy some speakers, TH-900 was one of the headphones I sold. I know a lot of people wil disagree with me on this, but I think they were treble hot. Tried using Equalizer APO (open source equalizing software) to tame them down a bit, and they were much more enjoyable then. Also, I was expecting TH900 to have the same physical midbass punch as Denon AH-D7000 but with better overall soundquality and deeper bass.
> 
> They did run deeper, had more details and a broader soundstage, but they lacked the midbass punch of D7000. The deep bass was great, but the treble hit something with me and didn't work out. I'm a huge fan of D7000 and I was expecting to get something else which could ultimately replace the D7000's, however, that turned out to be wrong. Actually, I don't think D7000 and TH-900 has as much in common as has been said. If they didn't look that similar, I doubt people would be mentioning them in the same sentence all the time.


 

 Interesting, I have to agree with TH900s being a bit treble hot, the funny thing is I did not feel this way "At All" when I had the E1 muses edition, in fact I would say the pairing had a very smooth top-end....... However, now with the Femto in my chain the TH900s top-end sounds quite aggressive which is the only gripe I've had with the femto, so maybe its what you pair with rather than the HPs themselves
  
 I strongly disagree with the lack of midbass punch, I find the midbass/midrange to be by far its strongest point using both E1 and femto. If you head over to the TH900 thread you will read loads of posts with this point of view
  
 Do you know if your th900s had the original pads? because same people who have experimented with aftermarket pads say they change the signature quite significantly


----------



## dynamics

gandah said:


> Absolutely, the TH900 is said by many to be best sounding closed-back HP on the market today closely followed by W3000ANV.  The sound signature of the D7000 and TH900 is similar in the way as soon as you hear both you know they are closely related, however you soon realise that TH900 is the big brother of the 2 with its tighter beeper bass, and with its more forward clearer midrange, overall it has more refined detailed sound.
> 
> Before you decide on buying new HPs, If you get a chance to audition the TH900s you should, considering you already know the D7000s
> 
> ...


 

 Beautiful!
  
 I can't wait to purchase them next month.
  
 I am using the Philips Fidelio X1 after owning the D7000.  The Philips Fidelio X1 are unbelievably good.  They have the perfect sound signature in which I crave.  They remind me a bit of the D7000 as far as bass goes, but Fidelio has more bass.   The bass is never over powering though, everything is very detailed and balanced.  Philips has created something special here. 
  
 But I miss the comfort of the D7000.  Once, you put the D7000 on...it's hard to find another headphone more comfortable.  I hear the TH900 is about the same level of comfort.
  
 I got rid of my T90 and HE-500 fast .  I preferred the Fidelio over both them .  It's not always about neutrality and flat sound.  I like a bit of an excitement and musicality.  Denon's had that and so does Fidelio.
  
 Thanks a lot for you input.  I will be purchasing the TH900 most likely in November .


----------



## Norway

Gandah; Nice to see someone agree on the hot treble, haha. I tested TH900 with many amps, but were unable to get the treble down without using EQ. The pads on TH-900's were stock, but this was an early make with the poor steel/aluminum stand, not the wooden one that it ships with now. Maybe they've changed it, because I thought the midbass punch was lacking compared to D7000. Not saying there was no physical impact, just that they didn't hit as hard as I perceive D7000 to do. 
  
 I recently got a Vioelectric V200, which is dark sounding yet detailed and clear sounding. I think it might be excellent for TH-900. It's amazing with D7000 for sure.
  
 Quote:


dynamics said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> I can't wait to purchase them next month.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I absolutely love Philips Fidelio X1 too. An amazing headphone at a ridiculously low price. Wish they had exchangeable pads.
  
 Comfort level of TH-900 is about equal if not better than D7000


----------



## Gandah

norway said:


> Nice to see someone agree on the hot treble, haha. I tested TH900 with many amps, but were unable to get the treble down without using EQ. The pads on TH-900's were stock, but this was an early make with the poor steel/aluminum stand, not the wooden one that it ships with now. Maybe they've changed it, because I thought the midbass punch was lacking compared to D7000. Not saying there was no physical impact, just that they didn't hit as hard as I perceive D7000 to do.
> 
> I recently got a Vioelectric V200, which is dark sounding yet detailed and clear sounding. I think it might be excellent for TH-900. It's amazing with D7000 for sure.


 
 Yeah man I agree, but, E1 muses>GSX mk2>TH900 = Smooth top-end, where FEMTO>GSXmk2>TH900 = treble hot.  So I think its more to do with source rather than amp
  
 I also have the old coat-hanger HP stand TH900s S/N:0356 I've never used the stand I don't think I ever will it's a bit silly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've read a lot about the V200 and v800 they have a huge following and said to pair well with almost any HP, next meet I will have to give them ago


----------



## dynamics

norway said:


> I absolutely love Philips Fidelio X1 too. An amazing headphone at a ridiculously low price. Wish they had exchangeable pads.
> 
> Comfort level of TH-900 is about equal if not better than D7000


 

 I agree.  These headphones can compete with the best of them and that's not an overstatement either and in fact they simply outclass models that are a lot more expensive.  They've become one of my favorite headphones I've ever owned.
  
 I hear there is a rumor that Philips is going to create an upgraded version of the Fidelio X1 with exchangeable pads.  Let's hope that's true and hopefully they keep the pricing in a similar range.
  
 Do you use the stock cable for the Philips or you have a different one?  I heard something about high impedance issues with the stock cable, so  I bought one with a lower impedance and should receive it this week.  I'll see if I notice any changes.


----------



## PanzerIV

Just wondering, do you guys notice a big improvement by using the Asus E1 on a pair of hifi loudspeakers through an hometheater or it's mostly just about the headphone listening?

 I have one right now paired on my KEF Q900 since I have 30 days to test it before getting a refund and I'm pretty sure I can hear a good improvement through the speakers too but I just want to know your opinion too.


----------



## TheManko

Surround receivers for the same price don't have dacs nearly as good as what you get in the Essence One. There's so many parts and license costs involved in surround receivers that you have to pay quite a bit before you get one with great dacs in it.


----------



## palmfish

I picked up a B-Stock Pioneer VSX-1122 last spring for $200. My E1 Muses sits right on top of it and I'll be damned if I can hear a difference between them.


----------



## TheManko

I used to have a Pioneer VSX-2021 and heard a clear upgrade when compared against a Hegel HD10 and Violectric V800. It was actually that receiver which made me abandon surround sound altogether, because music always lost all its energy when I used it, even in direct mode compared to the separate dacs. I'm completely happy now with a couple B&W CM8, two subwoofers, stereo amp and Muses Edition dac.


----------



## palmfish

Nice speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 That's actually my headphone/2-channel system in the photo. The VSX is a capable enough 2-channel amp and also drives my HD 800's with no problems.
  
 I love surround sound (music and movies) and have a completely different home theater system in another room.


----------



## Gandah

I did benefit a little SQ improvement pairing E1 muses too hometheater amp speakers, I agree with Manko it really depends on a number of things, eg:- the dac on my Sony TV isn't as good as the dac out of my HDX-1000 Networked media tank, or Apple TV, but putting them through the E1 muses gave better SQ, 2 channel only of course
  
 However, I've come to learn this also depends a lot on what your dac was ultimately design for, E1 muses excels more with headphones rather then speakers, and my Femto dac is the other way round


----------



## Froog

If I buy an E1 today, how do I verify it's the newer revision with A10 pots and without the volume controller imbalance issue?


----------



## daerron

The DACs in my Yamaha RX-A3010 is more than decent enough. I also wasn't very happy with the sound out of the AVR till I added a power amplifier, which makes you realise how much AVR manufacturers skimp on the amplification part in their AVRs nowadays. The preamp section is actually pretty decent. I have always compared the DACs I've owned so far with the DACs on the AVR and the differences were quite small and not as notable as on my headphone rig. I think there are many more factors at play at increasing the sound quality with speaker systems such as room correction and room treatments, amplification which might be more beneficial than adding a DAC.


----------



## Mach3

froog said:


> If I buy an E1 today, how do I verify it's the newer revision with A10 pots and without the volume controller imbalance issue?


 
 The pot are clearly label B10 or A10


----------



## ASUSXONAR

froog said:


> If I buy an E1 today, how do I verify it's the newer revision with A10 pots and without the volume controller imbalance issue?


 
  


mach3 said:


> The pot are clearly label B10 or A10


 
 Only the MUSES edition should have the pot with the gain jumpers. If you get a MUSES Edition unit that does not, then it needs to be sent to ASUS for a swap. The pot in the MUSES edition has a different scale to suit use of the gain jumpers. If you buy a standard it will come with the same pots they always have. The pot was never changed for imbalance, it was a change made to accommodate the gain jumpers in the MUSES Edition units only.


----------



## Froog

asusxonar said:


> Only the MUSES edition should have the pot with the gain jumpers. If you get a MUSES Edition unit that does not, then it needs to be sent to ASUS for a swap. The pot in the MUSES edition has a different scale to suit use of the gain jumpers. If you buy a standard it will come with the same pots they always have. The pot was never changed for imbalance, it was a change made to accommodate the gain jumpers in the MUSES Edition units only.


 

 Thanks for answering truthfully. In other words, the standard E1 still suffers from channel imbalance. Darn it, that's a deal breaker for me. Would you happen to know if there's an availability date on the "E3" (Essence III)? Is the "E3" pricing similar to that of the standard or MUSES ed? MUSES is probably over my budget.


----------



## Gandah

asusxonar said:


> Only the MUSES edition should have the pot with the gain jumpers. If you get a MUSES Edition unit that does not, then it needs to be sent to ASUS for a swap. The pot in the MUSES edition has a different scale to suit use of the gain jumpers. If you buy a standard it will come with the same pots they always have. The pot was never changed for imbalance, it was a change made to accommodate the gain jumpers in the MUSES Edition units only.


 
 Really? only muses edition has A10 pots, when I contacted Asus USA "because Asus Australia have no idea about the E1" I asked about the A10 pot being in a newer batch of standard editions and they concurred, plus I remember others talking about having A10 pots in their standard editions
  
 Hmmm, or maybe like how some of to muses got B10s some standards got A10s, if I find the old posts I will re-post them, still doesn't explain asus USA maybe they got confused or just wanted to get rid of this crazy Aussie guy asking dumb questions off the phone
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 who knows....


----------



## Froog

So has the E1 standard been revised with a proper balanced volume controller or not?


----------



## ASUSXONAR

froog said:


> So has the E1 standard been revised with a proper balanced volume controller or not?


 
 No, the standard edition never had a pot change and will not be revised in the future. The different pot is only for the MUSES Edition to accommodate the gain jumper.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

gandah said:


> Really? only muses edition has A10 pots, when I contacted Asus USA "because Asus Australia have no idea about the E1" I asked about the A10 pot being in a newer batch of standard editions and they concurred, plus I remember others talking about having A10 pots in their standard editions
> 
> Hmmm, or maybe like how some of to muses got B10s some standards got A10s, if I find the old posts I will re-post them, still doesn't explain asus USA maybe they got confused or just wanted to get rid of this crazy Aussie guy asking dumb questions off the phone
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had this confirmed with HQ twice now. The pot change is only for MUSES. There is no official production change for the standard edition pots. There were some MUSES edition units with the wrong pots and no gain jumpers - that is the only issue I know of and maybe that is the fuel for the confusion on this forum. Other than that, unless there was a goof in manufacturing on the standard edition, there is no official part change on record from our end.


----------



## henkefi

I have only one question and it will decide if I buy one or not.
 Could several inputs be used simultaneously, especially toslink and coaxial at the same time? And preferably also a mix between them?
  
 What I'm looking for is really a headphone amplifier that could downmix several digital inputs. Of course a mixer would be great, but then I need two units? But as of now, I actually only need a coax + toslink at the same time. Is it possible with Essence STX
  
 Cheers


----------



## DMarasovic

henkefi said:


> I have only one question and it will decide if I buy one or not.
> Could several inputs be used simultaneously, especially toslink and coaxial at the same time? And preferably also a mix between them?
> 
> What I'm looking for is really a headphone amplifier that could downmix several digital inputs. Of course a mixer would be great, but then I need two units? But as of now, I actually only need a coax + toslink at the same time. Is it possible with Essence STX
> ...


 

 It is possible to use one input at the same time.


----------



## henkefi

dmarasovic said:


> It is possible to use one input at the same time.


 

 Haha ok , I take that as a no 
 Too bad though. Then I need to look for something else.
  
 Thanks


----------



## henkefi

It does say this in the manual though. Can any owner confirm please?
  
 "Note: Both Coaxial and Toslink inputs can be used to connect and run equipment at the same time."
  
 Being able to connect is obvious, but to use them at the same time? Two signals into one?
  
 Cheers


----------



## dclaz

Is there any easy way to fix the channel imbalance issue?


----------



## palmfish

Many amps have imbalance at the bottom of the volume pot range. Lower your source output level and turn the volume up to get that volume knob past 9:00.


----------



## DMarasovic

henkefi said:


> It does say this in the manual though. Can any owner confirm please?
> 
> "Note: Both Coaxial and Toslink inputs can be used to connect and run equipment at the same time."
> 
> ...


 

 All inputs can be connected at the same time, but only one is transfered to dac.
 See the marked knob on the picture. By toggling it source is changed COAX -> TOSLINK -> USB -> COAX .......


----------



## dclaz

palmfish said:


> Many amps have imbalance at the bottom of the volume pot range. Lower your source output level and turn the volume up to get that volume knob past 9:00.


 
 I read somewhere it affects every second position of the knob - effectively halving the resolution of volume control.


----------



## palmfish

dclaz said:


> I read somewhere it affects every second position of the knob - effectively halving the resolution of volume control.


 
  
 I'm not sure what that means. FWIW, when I had the old unit I did not notice any channel imbalance. I think this issue has been blown out of proportion.


----------



## PanzerIV

Nice to see there's an Asus representent here. It would be nice if we could get an answer for an APPROXIMATIVE.. since I know you guys are on "silence" forgot the exact term.. for the release date and the pricing bracket like 800-1200$? I just bought an Essence One and will return it to the store since I've heard a better version is coming out someday.


 Question for others, do you still benefit a lot with the Asus E1 for music on a pair of loudspeakers or is it pretty much just for headphones? I want to know as 75% of the time I listen through my _(KEF Q900) _and at most 25% through my headphones _(AKG K720)_


----------



## TheManko

I thought we already talked about using it with speakers on page 178.


----------



## techboy

How does Asus E1 Muses amp compare to the amp in Burson Soloist? I know that the dac is a lot better in the Muses. But how do the units compare, overall, to each other? Assuming no external dac/amp is used. And how does it compare to Woo Audio WA7? Also, how does the amp section compare to amps like CK2III or M3?
  
 Thank You so much 
  
 Aakshey


----------



## Gandah

techboy said:


> How does Asus E1 Muses amp compare to the amp in Burson Soloist? I know that the dac is a lot better in the Muses. But how do the units compare, overall, to each other? Assuming no external dac/amp is used. And how does it compare to Woo Audio WA7? Also, how does the amp section compare to amps like CK2III or M3?
> 
> Thank You so much
> 
> Aakshey


 
  No prob's mate,
  
 I no longer own the E1 muses because of the infamous B10 volume potentiometer, which had a pretty bad channel imbalance on my unit, and is the only reason why I don't have the E1 anymore....unfortunately I'm not alone with this channel imbalance problem, which is a real hit & miss when buying a standard edition, not so the pre-loaded muses edition, which corrects this problem with the new A10 potentiometer.
  
 However, with this in mind I will answer your question, If we are just talking "SQ alone" E1 muses to "*my ears*" is the best dac/amp combo I've heard under 2k which means you won't have to pay 2k, but you will have to pay over 2k for a better sounding dac/amp, other dac/amp combo's I've auditioned that I didn't think had better SQ over E1 muses were Fostex HP-A8C, Grace M309, and Burson HA-160d
  
 Sorry I can't comment on the Burson Soloist, WA7, CK2III or M3 because I've never auditioned them. The amp I use is HeadAmp's GS-X mk2 which is regarded as the most neutral, transparent HP amp around, so I've never really looked or auditioned any other HP amp
  
 Burson has a good reputation on head-fi I would say the Soloist is a great amp from what I've read, and if you get a chance to auditioned before you decide to buy, do so, maybe at a local head-fi meet or a retailer who has a demo model on offer
  
 Good luck.... and let us know how you go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers
 ~Steve


----------



## PanzerIV

gandah said:


> I did benefit a little SQ improvement pairing E1 muses too hometheater amp speakers, I agree with Manko it really depends on a number of things, eg:- the dac on my Sony TV isn't as good as the dac out of my HDX-1000 Networked media tank, or Apple TV, but putting them through the E1 muses gave better SQ, 2 channel only of course
> 
> However, I've come to learn this also depends a lot on what your dac was ultimately design for, E1 muses excels more with headphones rather then speakers, and my Femto dac is the other way round
> .......
> However, with this in mind I will answer your question, If we are just talking "SQ alone" E1 muses to "*my ears*" is the best dac/amp combo I've heard under 2k which means you won't have to pay 2k, but you will have to pay over 2k for a better sounding dac/amp, other dac/amp combo's I've auditioned that I didn't think had better SQ over E1 muses were Fostex HP-A8C, Grace M309, and Burson HA-160d


 

 @*TheManko* So if I get it right after reading all these pages, this is the best price/quality ratio Dac/Amp you can buy as you'll need to spend over 2000$ to get better sound *through headphones*... but the question remains about it being paired on loudspeakers. I sure do care about headphone quality but I mostly listen through speakers which is why I ask the question. At this price is there a big advantage to get the Essence One over the best "~200$" PCI-E soundcard as I'm of course comparing the E1's DAC to high-end computer cards, not the crap found in most receiver 

 Also, what about the *"8x Symetrical Upscaling"*, is it just a marketing gimmick or it really do help to enhance most of the 320kbps MP3 files?


----------



## Gandah

panzeriv said:


> @*TheManko* So if I get it right after reading all these pages, this is the best price/quality ratio Dac/Amp you can buy as you'll need to spend over 2000$ to get better sound *through headphones*... but the question remains about it being paired on loudspeakers. I sure do care about headphone quality but I mostly listen through speakers which is why I ask the question. At this price is there a big advantage to get the Essence One over the best "~200$" PCI-E soundcard as I'm of course comparing the E1's DAC to high-end computer cards, not the crap found in most receiver
> 
> Also, what about the *"8x Symetrical Upscaling"*, is it just a marketing gimmick or it really do help to enhance most of the 320kbps MP3 files?


 
 If your finding someone to agree with what I hear you may not get the answer you want, this is my view of the E1 muses and is not at all set in concrete


----------



## dynamics

Asus Essence One Muses is the best DAC I've ever heard and I've tried higher priced ones and many others.
  
 Most of the other "highend" DACs when compared to the Asus Essence Muses, you see how badly overpriced they are and such rip offs.
  
 In fact if there is a company I would trust to get things done right and for a reasonable price it's Asus, because they are a large company and they can afford to pay some of the best engineers around.  Usually a lot of the smaller so called "audiophile" companies are the ones that put out garbage.
  
 There are plenty of DACs around that have maybe $200 or less worth of electronics in there and sell for several thousand dollars.


----------



## Gandah

dynamics said:


> Asus Essence One Muses is the best DAC I've ever heard and I've tried higher priced ones and many others.
> 
> Most of the other "highend" DACs when compared to the Asus Essence Muses, you see how badly overpriced they are and such rip offs.
> 
> ...


 
 +1..... I'm really excited about the E3 dac coming out, I may even end up selling the Femto depending on how it sounds in comparison. If SQ of the E1 Muses is to go by, the E3 hopefully will be even better
  
 Don't get me wrong I'm not unhappy with the Calyx Femto, not at all, it really sounds amazing through Loud-Speakers, like nothing I've ever heard before, however through my headphone rig the harshness of the top-end is very revealing but annoying at the same time


----------



## dclaz

palmfish said:


> I'm not sure what that means. FWIW, when I had the old unit I did not notice any channel imbalance. I think this issue has been blown out of proportion.


 
  
 Were you listening through headphones or the line out with speakers? Are both outputs affected?


----------



## shyamelge

I am getting LME 49720HA (rounded top). There are total 11 op amps in E1. Should I get 11 of these or less? If less, then recommend which section opamps to be replaced.
  
 I can get 11 of these if it makes sense. All at my own risk.
  
 Your advise please.


----------



## bibo01

For all those who asked the price of the Essence 3:
  
 The device was recently officially presented in Italy and the suggested reatil price is *1.699,90 Euro *(VAT included).
 This is for Europe. However, normally for the US market you may have the same figure in US$.


----------



## shyamelge

Since I won't be using XLR outputs, I see no need to swap its opamp.
  
 Is it OK if I only swap stock 4562 with 49720HA (metal caps) for RCA ouputs? Meaning swapping only one op amp in this section.
  
 Or do I have to swap all the 3 op amps of the same type (2 for XLR and 1 for RCA)?


----------



## daws0n

I only swapped the rca opamp since xlrs are not used.. No problems at all here!


----------



## PanzerIV

bibo01 said:


> For all those who asked the price of the Essence 3:
> 
> The device was recently officially presented in Italy and the suggested reatil price is *1.699,90 Euro *(VAT included).
> This is for Europe. However, normally for the US market you may have the same figure in US$.


 
 Wow... seriously, *****in 1700$US!!! That is really ridiculously way overpriced. I really doubt it's gonna sound 3x better than the Essence 1 so to pay as much as 300% just for about 15-20% enhancement, that's a lot asked. They should offer a version without XLR for all the people who won't ever be using these and don't want to pay a few hundred bucks more for it. I expected about 1000$, 1200$ at most... now I think I'll just forget about it if it has to be the same price of my loudspeakers just for a damn DAC.


----------



## palmfish

panzeriv said:


> I expected about 1000$, 1200$ at most... now I think I'll just forget about it if it has to be the same price of my loudspeakers just for a damn DAC.




Uh...really?

The E1 Muses Ed. is $1000.


----------



## dclaz

panzeriv said:


> Wow... seriously, *****in 1700$US!!! That is really ridiculously way overpriced. I really doubt it's gonna sound 3x better than the Essence 1 so to pay as much as 300% just for about 15-20% enhancement, that's a lot asked. They should offer a version without XLR for all the people who won't ever be using these and don't want to pay a few hundred bucks more for it. I expected about 1000$, 1200$ at most... now I think I'll just forget about it if it has to be the same price of my loudspeakers just for a damn DAC.


 
 it needs to be compared with other high end DSD capable dacs. I'm sure it offers more features and comparable performance to DACS and headphone amps worth more than $2k
  
 It's all relative. Everything is going to be considered (or perhaps even _is_) overpriced compared to thinks like the ODAC/O2 etc if you don't need DSD or balanced output.


----------



## Gandah

Going by the information on offer, the new Asus E3 dac does look promising, and if it lives up to the hype its receiving $1.699 will be a bargain. The E1 standard edition isn't a high-end dac at all and has many faults which you can easily find in this thread, however when adding muses, *ONLY* the sound quality is improved and nothing else, Muses Edition on the other hand has slight improvements other than the pro-loaded muses.
  
 So if E1 standard = $500,  E1 muses = $1200, The new E3 dac if living up to it's promises is definitely worth the assumed asking price for sure


----------



## Pippin76

gandah said:


> Going by the information on offer, the new Asus E3 dac does look promising, and if it lives up to the hype its receiving $1.699 will be a bargain. The E1 standard edition isn't a high-end dac at all and has many faults which you can easily find in this thread, however when adding muses, *ONLY* the sound quality is improved and nothing else, Muses Edition on the other hand has slight improvements other than the pro-loaded muses.
> 
> So if E1 standard = $500,  E1 muses = $1200, The new E3 dac if living up to it's promises is definitely worth the assumed asking price for sure


 
 But the muses differ on the new model, no? MUSES02 I think. Wonder what that difference that will make, if any.


----------



## bibo01

pippin76 said:


> But the muses differ on the new model, no? MUSES02 I think. Wonder what that difference that will make, if any.


 
 Two different animals: MUSES01 is JFET input type and MUSES02 is Bipolar input type.


----------



## PanzerIV

> Originally Posted by *dclaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It's all relative. Everything is going to be considered (or perhaps even _is_) overpriced compared to thinks like the ODAC/O2 etc if you don't need DSD or balanced output.


 
 The name of the ODAC/O2 seems to come really often and it appears to have the absolute best price/performance ratio. The portability of the ODAC is great and being outside a computer should means no interference. I have a few questions though about it.
*1-* Is the power circuitry and the opamp used inside are superior to those of the best PCI soundcards? 
*2- *Is it only better for music or it can be an improvement also for games and movies?
*3-* Is there a difference in quality from using an output of_ (RCA to RCA)_ instead of _(3.5mm to RCA)_?
*4-* I'd guess that it's only stereo so worthless for 5.1 gaming through speakers?
*5-* I'm wondering if I shouldn't just get the O2 headphone amp since the ODAC is prolly not worth it when you already have a very good soundcard. Let's say I do this, now to connect the soundcard to the O2's amp, should I use a 3.5mm cable from the headphone output of the front panel of my computer case or I should really use the rear Front L/R output which is of better quality and then use an Y splitter so I can still have my speaker connected? I wonder however if there's a disadvantage from having an Y cable for an output line-level cable.

  


gandah said:


> The E1 standard edition isn't a high-end dac at all and has many faults which you can easily find in this thread, however when adding muses, *ONLY* the sound quality is improved and nothing else,
> 
> So if E1 standard = $500,  E1 muses = $1200, The new E3 dac if living up to it's promises is definitely worth the assumed asking price for sure


 
 The thing is that even if you'd want to buy the Muses Edition right now, it wouldn't be possible as it's been officially discontinued by Asus since quite a long time. Hell even just the regular E1 is hard enough to find, it's always on special order or very low stock but at least that one is still available. I don't understand why they would abandon the Muses Edition, offer something better and then have a huge gap between their 500$ E1 and the 1700$ E3. It makes no sense. Oh and the Muses was more like 900$ rather than 1200$ but gone forever anyway (-_-)

 From the E1 I tested 25 days before returning for refund, I didn't notice the volume imbalance at all. The only problems I had is that sometime I would power it on and it wouldn't be recognized at all as if it would freeze instantly until I power it off for a while then put the power back later. It didn't happen too often at least but more than a few time. The other problem I had is firmware update done in service mode, even though I did everything correctly, the Asus program never recognized the unit so I never been able to upgrade its firmware. I found the sound improvement to be major over my AKG K702 headphones because of the amp inside that blow away any PCI soundcard but unfortunately on my high-end loudspeakers I couldn't really hear much difference from the DAC versus my high-end soundcard with upgraded opamps. I even had buzzing sound from the USB while moving my mouse around, which doesn't happen with my PCI card. I somehow expected much better for a 600$ DAC vs my 200$ soundcard, unless I was mostly paying (200$ DAC + 300$ Headphone Amp + 100$ XLR Output = 600$)? Ah and that so called 8x Symmetrical Upsampling... more like marketing bs, there was no difference with it on.


----------



## Gandah

My point was progression from standard, plus, muses, if is anything to go by, the E3 more then likely will be priced accordingly. which to me $1699 sounds about right.


----------



## shyamelge

Today I got 9 pieces of 49720HA and put them on dip-8 socket. Almost took one hour to put them on socket, not an easy task.
  
 Except XLR outputs, I swapped all the stock opamps with 49720HAs.
  
 It is certainly an improvement from the stock as well as other opamp combinations (including 2132, 4562, 2107) tried previously by me. You get more more details besides clean and punchy bass. Treble is aggressive and not to my liking. 
  
 I have never tried muses so can't compare with that combo but so far the best sound I have got from Texas Instrument's other op amps with me.  
  
 One thing I have noticed after few minutes of swapping: the metal top of 49720HA becomes hot very quickly within 10 minutes of use. They return to normal temp within 2 minutes of switching off the E1. Is it normal?
  
 Please advise.


----------



## DMarasovic

shyamelge said:


> Today I got 9 pieces of 49720HA and put them on dip-8 socket. Almost took one hour to put them on socket, not an easy task.
> 
> Except XLR outputs, I swapped all the stock opamps with 49720HAs.
> 
> ...


 
 They are hot by default.
 Try to put 2132 into I/V, leave 49720HA at buffer and 4562 at factory default positions (also dip8 49720 for headphone buffer). It gives more balanced sound, clean but not aggressive.


----------



## shyamelge

dmarasovic said:


> They are hot by default.
> Try to put 2132 into I/V, leave 49720HA at buffer and 4562 at factory default positions (also dip8 49720 for headphone buffer). It gives more balanced sound, clean but not aggressive.


 
  
 Thanks for letting me know that they are hot by default. I was getting worried over it. 
  
 Thanks also for suggesting a new combo. Yes, I will try it and inform you.
  
 Right now, I am trying another combo: 5532 at I/V stage, 49720HA at buffer, HP and RCA outputs.  The aggressive treble is gone with it. The top-end is smooth now and some airyness of stock op amps is back.


----------



## shyamelge

Just tried 2132PA at I/V stage as suggested by you, I immediately noticed clean bass besides smoothness and tubish sound. A good combo indeed. Thank you!


----------



## DMax99

When Using the preouts for speakers is the DAC being used or just the amp (with optical connected to the source)??


----------



## palmfish

The DAC is always being used. There is no analog input.


----------



## DMax99

thanks mate


----------



## midnightfox

http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Essence_III/
  
 Looks like Asus have updated there official page with more details on the Essence III. 
 Looking forward to hearing user reviews/feedback.


----------



## shyamelge

The heat generated by metal caps of 49720HAs is almost 10 times more than the stock op amps and others. 
  
 Is it OK to use E1 with 49720HAs for 4-5 hours in one stretch with cover on?


----------



## shyamelge

In the official page, I noticed Essence III uses following op-amps:
  
 Op-amps:
  
 ● I/V:2 x AD827SQ(ceramics)
 ● LPF:2 x AD827SQ(ceramics)
 ● Buffer(XLR):2 x AD827SQ(ceramics)
 ● DC servo(single-ended):2 x MUSES 02
 ● DC servo(balanced):4 x OPA2227P
  
 Has anyone tried AD827SQ in Essence I or other equipment?


----------



## mwindham08

shyamelge said:


> The heat generated by metal caps of 49720HAs is almost 10 times more than the stock op amps and others.
> 
> Is it OK to use E1 with 49720HAs for 4-5 hours in one stretch with cover on?


 
 I left mine on pretty much non stop and never had any problems.


----------



## DMax99

is it just me or the new Essences are getting uglier!


----------



## palmfish

It's just you


----------



## mwindham08

Definitely a different style. I do appreciate the newer models being flat on top so stacking is a possibility. That was impossible with the original e1


----------



## palmfish

I think the E1 has more of a computer peripheral look while the new one looks like a proper audio component. For $1600 (which is NOT confirmed) I think it faces stiff competition from the reference class such as the Benchmark DAC2 and Grace Audio M903. That will be a tough nut to crack for Asus in my opinion.


----------



## Gandah

palmfish said:


> I think the E1 has more of a computer peripheral look while the new one looks like a proper audio component. For $1600 (which is NOT confirmed) I think it faces stiff competition from the reference class such as the Benchmark DAC2 and Grace Audio M903. That will be a tough nut to crack for Asus in my opinion.


 
 I think they already have E1 muses vs Grace M903, to my ears anyhow


----------



## palmfish

gandah said:


> I think they already have E1 muses vs Grace M903, to my ears anyhow


 
  
 Well, they are both well engineered pieces so I would not be surprised if they sound basically the same. But the M903 has higher quality components, balanced and unbalanced *analog inputs* and a *remote control*, among other features. I'm over simplifying, but I would say the M903 is a professional reference class DAC and headphone amp and the E1 Muses is a high quality consumer grade DAC and headphone amp.


----------



## PanzerIV

Umm, looking at the unit I now have quite a few questions. I'll be glad if anybody can help!
  
*1-* What is Vr-Bypass and Ex-IrDA?
*2-* Shouldn't the Phono-Out be an input instead so we could connect directly a turntable, unless it is totaly pointless to use a DAC for what would be already Analog to Analog?
*3-* EBU/AES input that looks like a balanced input, is it for microphone recording through XLR?
*4-* Why a USB 1.0 // 2.0 switch?! I could understand at most 2.0 vs 3.0 but now...
*5*- Is it me or their "Synchronious Symetrical 8x" upscalling feature they bragged so much about is now gone even though it cost 3x more?!


----------



## palmfish

Vr-Bypass: I dont have a clue
Ex-IrDA: looks like a socket for an external IR receiver for a remote control
Phono Out: the terms "phono" and "RCA" both refer to the type of plug only. 
EBU/AES: its another digital input 
USB 1//2: i dont know why they would have a switch. USB 1 is a driverless standard limited to 24/96. USB 2 goes up to higher bitrates but requires a driver.
8X upsampling: we dont know until they release specs


----------



## PanzerIV

palmfish said:
			
		

> USB 1//2: i dont know why they would have a switch. USB 1 is a driverless standard limited to 24/96. USB 2 goes up to higher bitrates but requires a driver.
> 8X upsampling: we dont know until they release specs


 
 Ahh so USB 1.0 is only for driverless, so people too lazy to install drivers?! Kind of meaningless imo.

 As I said, very strange if they removed their upscalling feature. Also if you compare the official specs, the Essence III have a SNR of 117dB and THD of -105dB so What it's performance are inferior even though the design seems to be overkill and much better?!

*Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted) (Front-out) :*
120 dB
*Output THD+N at 1kHz (Front-out) :*
0.000316 %(-110 dB)


----------



## palmfish

panzeriv said:


> Ahh so USB 1.0 is only for driverless, so people too lazy to install drivers?! Kind of meaningless imo.
> 
> 
> As I said, very strange if they removed their upscalling feature. Also if you compare the official specs, the Essence III have a SNR of 117dB and THD of -105dB so What it's performance are inferior even though the design seems to be overkill and much better?!
> ...




Panzer, it has nothing to do with laziness. USB 2.0 is great I'm sure, but not everybody uses a PC to listen to music, and not everybody listens to 192 kHz files (and those that do are fooling themselves  ).

As for all those specs - do you really think you can hear the difference between a 120 dB SNR and 117 dB SNR?

The reason why the Essence III will cost more than the Essence I is entirely due to the added features, more components, and higher quality parts. I seriously doubt it will sound any better (or even different) from the E1, but it will still be worth it for some people.

Regarding upsampling - it is a worthless feature AFAIC. In my opinion, it's better to listen to a file in its original resolution than mess with it. Its been shown in numerous trials that nobody can tell the difference between a file recorded in 24/192 and the same file downsampled to 16/44. Hell, I cant hear a difference between a 24/192 file and the same file compressed to 320 kbps MP3.


----------



## PanzerIV

palmfish said:
			
		

> Regarding upsampling - it is a worthless feature AFAIC. In my opinion, it's better to listen to a file in its original resolution than mess with it. Its been shown in numerous trials that nobody can tell the difference between a file recorded in 24/192 and the same file downsampled to 16/44. Hell, I cant hear a difference between a 24/192 file and the same file compressed to 320 kbps MP3.


 
 Yeah you're right. To be honnest when I tryed the E1 at home for 25 days I really couldn't tell the difference at all with the upsampling activated or not and in theory it should be better to avoid any modification of the sampling. In fact upsampling totaly ruin the purpose of "Bitperfect" which most people will prolly aim for rather than upsample stuff. Something badly recorded will still sound like crap even if upscalled to 24-32bit while something recorded in a very good studio will still sound better in MP3 VBR0. The confusing thing is the 1 second of mute while engaging the upsampling mode so it can confuse your ears in hearing something different while it's clearly the same.

 I even tryed to compare a FLAC album of one of my favorite band to the VBR0 MP3 I had already and seriously I tryed my best but couldn't hear a single difference at all so all that lossless speech is again snobbish bs from "audiophiles". I'm afraid as you say that the Essence III won't even sound better than the E1 but will still cost much more just for added features that most people aren't gonna fully use. It sucks that they discountinued the E1 Muse edition as if it's the best thing when it comes to sound then I don't want to pay 2x more than the Muses only for added features (-_-)


----------



## DMax99

Hi Folks, 

If you're sick of your E1, I'm looking to buy a second one. So hit me up if you are


----------



## ASUSXONAR

palmfish said:


> I think the E1 has more of a computer peripheral look while the new one looks like a proper audio component. For $1600 (which is NOT confirmed) I think it faces stiff competition from the reference class such as the Benchmark DAC2 and Grace Audio M903. That will be a tough nut to crack for Asus in my opinion.


 
  
  
 The lead engineer voiced against the acclaimed W4S DAC and obviously the E1 and told me he's confident we've got things down in terms of dynamics and SQ.


----------



## postshiwang

that right,Looks like an external Dac/Amp combo with USB, Coax and Optical inputs.Also has Headphone, Balanced (XLR)  and Unbalanced outputs.thanks


----------



## dclaz

My E1 just arrived. What are the optimal windows/itunes settings? Do I set everything to 192khz/24bit? I plan on setting up Foobar at some point, but won't be able to whip up something satisfactory for a while.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Use the ASIO driver in the drop down menus of Foobar. For the other playback software, either configure bit depth/sampling rate to source or set it at 24/192 if you prefer (not sure everyone can pick up the sonic differences between the bit rates according to source etc).


----------



## techboy

Hi
 I just got muses.
  
 Over 9 o clock volume I get humming/hissing.
  
 Tried USB and coaxial.
  
 I need to keep at 9 o clock and control from my computer to avoid humming/hissing.
  
 Used as a dac connected to a tube preamp and then speakers/headphone.
  
 Doesn't happen without muses in the chain.
  
 By the way, the sound is delicious, outstanding to say the least!


----------



## techboy

*Asus Essence One Muses Edition Impressions*
  
*SETUP 1*
 PC – USB – Asus Essence One Muses – Project Ember – AVI ADM 9RS / Sennheiser HD 650
  
*SETUP 2*
 PC – SPDIF – AVI ADM 9RS via Internal DAC
  
*SETUP 3*
 Asus STX – Project Ember – AVI ADM 9RS / Sennheiser HD 650
  
*DAC*
 The Muses Edition is a huge improvement over the other two setups above.
  
*Pros over AVI DAC / STX DAC: (Also, AVI DAC >>> STX DAC)*
 Way more articulate, not even close, a night and day difference
 Far more spacious, wider, deeper, taller
 Far more natural and lively without being bright
 Far more rich, detailed as well as lush
 Immerses you in the music and makes you want to dance, unlike the other setups which are more analytical but not as good in the above ways.
 Imaging is much better
 Dynamics are better
  
*Cons over AVI DAC:*
 Not as transparent or clean
  
*PLEASE NOTE*
 I prefer the Muses to the AVI dac by a huge shot, not even a comparison, especially for the mids and sound stage and because it actually sounds like music with emotion and depth!
  
*With HD 650:*
 It feels as if the music is floating around my head rather than just sitting over there.
 Imaging and dynamics are better as I said above.
 Melting delicious sound presentation
 More balanced yet better all around
 Above pros as well
 No cons over STX DAC
  
*AMP*
 Not tried much, just for a few seconds. Sounded very good, but not in the same league as the DAC. My Ember sounded slightly better but I haven’t tried the amp much anyway! So can’t really say…
  
*Impressions*
 It doesn’t sound sterile or dead like the other setups. It sounds like music and real, something which immerses you.
  
 The AVI DAC is very good, but not in the same league as this DAC (though it is more transparent and cleaner).
 This DAC sounds rich and lush while being powerful and articulate.
  
 The bass isn’t as prominent as the AVI DAC which isn’t bass heavy either.
  
 I never got the WOW effect, not even when I went from Aktimates to AVI ADM, or from Bravo to Ember, and both above are night and day upgrades. But this upgrade gave me the WOW effect that was I missing all along. Now my setup feels complete and truly end game without any upgrade itch in me. Don’t get me wrong, AVI ADM and HD 650 and Project Ember are all excellent at their price points and work exceptionally, but I was probably missing the Source I needed and this Source brings out the best within all my devices/setup and makes them really sing.
  
 With Muses, HD 650 sounds like a flagship headphone, not as detailed as the HD 800, but definitely truly end game and the sound presentation is to die for!


----------



## Gandah

techboy said:


> *Asus Essence One Muses Edition Impressions*
> 
> *SETUP 1*
> PC – USB – Asus Essence One Muses – Project Ember – AVI ADM 9RS / Sennheiser HD 650
> ...


 
 Nice impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Did you overcome the humming problem after 9' O clock? If not make sure all pins are mounted correctly, I've had a similar problem were one of the pins bent underneath itself.


----------



## techboy

Which pins are you talking about? Can you please clarify?


----------



## techboy

Are you talking about the opamps?


----------



## Gandah

The muses chip has  8 pins on each chip, or did you buy the Muses Edition preloaded with muses chips, if so you take the unit back for a replacement or refund


----------



## Gandah

Break off the power pin of your USB cable which your asus dac doesn't need or use, because it's self powered unit, which you can find tutorials on head-fi to do this.
  
 This may or may not be the problem but at least you will know, and it doesn't effect the performance of the unit itself


----------



## techboy

Could you please give a link to the tutorial? Do you think a usb isolator may help?


----------



## Gandah

techboy said:


> Could you please give a link to the tutorial? Do you think a usb isolator may help?


 
  
http://www.imagebam.com/image/75793b228142167
  
 Practice on a older cable first, If you don't feel confident in doing this than don't


----------



## ASUSXONAR

Before you do that, try optical input. If there is no hiss, then it's a PC side noise issue (some motherboards or PCs can be noisy). If there is still noise, the issue on the E1 side.


----------



## techboy

I have tried coaxial, still the same issue


----------



## Gandah

techboy said:


> I have tried coaxial, still the same issue


 
  
 Try a different mains power cable, or you could even try a different outlet in your house or somewhere different other then your house
  
 I know it's clutching as straws but you never know


----------



## techboy

Tried a different location, didn't try a different cable though.
  
 Also, opened it, none of the pins are bent.


----------



## ASUSXONAR

techboy said:


> I have tried coaxial, still the same issue


 
  
  
 Coaxial is not optical. As I stated earlier try optical (AKA Toslink). There will be no difference between USB and "coaxial" if the noise is coming from the groundplane of the PC side. Toslink (optical) will break the ground connection which is why I suggested you try it.


----------



## techboy

Tried it. It still persists


----------



## ASUSXONAR

in that case the noise is between the E1 and the downstream components somehow. Unlikely the noise changes if you remove all input connections correct?


----------



## techboy

THe noise only comes when the computer is playing some sound. If i remove all inputs, there will be no sound and hence no noise.
  
 There is humming only when there is noise. And only with rca outs, with headphone outs there is no noise. And the noise with rca outs is only if i go more than 9 o clock volume on the pot. I can keep the volume at any level with my other devices or pc though.


----------



## Gandah

asusxonar said:


> Coaxial is not optical. As I stated earlier try optical (AKA Toslink). There will be no difference between USB and "coaxial" if the noise is coming from the groundplane of the PC side. Toslink (optical) will break the ground connection which is why I suggested you try it.


 
 +1


----------



## techboy

It is a common mode problem. Resolved once I not use my hybrid am.


----------



## PanzerIV

techboy said:


> It is a common mode problem. Resolved once I not use my hybrid am.


 
 So you finaly found how to fix your issue? Could you please specify what is a "Hybrid AM" so others could know what to avoid.
  


gandah said:


> Break off the power pin of your USB cable which your asus dac doesn't need or use, because it's self powered unit, which you can find tutorials on head-fi to do this.
> This may or may not be the problem but at least you will know, and it doesn't effect the performance of the unit itself


 
 Then why doesn't Asus ship their Essence One with such USB cable without the power pin?! For the price of the unit it wouldn't be too much asked. I wonder if it would have fixed the buzzing sound I had through my speakers "RCA Out" when I was moving a 1000Hz mouse.
  


asusxonar said:


> Coaxial is not optical. As I stated earlier try optical (AKA Toslink). There will be no difference between USB and "coaxial" if the noise is coming from the groundplane of the PC side. Toslink (optical) will break the ground connection which is why I suggested you try it.


 
 So if you have the choice between Coaxial and Optical, always use the Optical since the quality is the same but it's less prone to grounding issues?


----------



## techboy

Hybrid amp. 

With just the amp there is no hum. With just the muses there is no hum. With both together there is hum.

It is a grounding issue with my pcs psu.


----------



## TheManko

panzeriv said:


> Then why doesn't Asus ship their Essence One with such USB cable without the power pin?! For the price of the unit it wouldn't be too much asked. I wonder if it would have fixed the buzzing sound I had through my speakers "RCA Out" when I was moving a 1000Hz mouse.


 
 As far as I know nobody makes USB cables without the power pin. Therefore it's unreasonable to expect them to make their own production run of cables without power pins just for the dacs in order to deal with a problem only a minority of users might experience.


----------



## DMax99

Do you guys think the E3 will be worth getting?


----------



## palmfish

You might find some answers here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/686538/asus-launches-essence-iii-usb-dac-preamp-headamp


----------



## dclaz

does anyone elses E1 get really quite hot after a few hours of use?


----------



## Mach3

dclaz said:


> does anyone elses E1 get really quite hot after a few hours of use?


 
 I've left mine on for a week plus before. Just warm to touch (You can leave your hand on the unit and you won't feel any discomfort)


----------



## DMax99

Same here, mine doesn't get that hot at all


----------



## techboy

My issue got solved. Just placed the amp over the dac


----------



## bellmaogoupi

that right,Looks like an external Dac/Amp combo with USB, Coax and Optical inputs.thanks


----------



## dclaz

mach3 said:


> I've left mine on for a week plus before. Just warm to touch (You can leave your hand on the unit and you won't feel any discomfort)


 
  
  


dmax99 said:


> Same here, mine doesn't get that hot at all


 
  
 I see, well mine would have got uncomfortable. I'm guessing it's because I had it turned up to almost max, the source audio was SUPER quiet.


----------



## DMax99

dclaz said:


> I see, well mine would have got uncomfortable. I'm guessing it's because I had it turned up to almost max, the source audio was SUPER quiet.


 

 Did you try and hook it up straight into speakers? If that's the case I suggest you hook it into an amp and then the speaker! 
  
 I don't think the E1 has enough wattage to drive speakers


----------



## dclaz

dmax99 said:


> Did you try and hook it up straight into speakers? If that's the case I suggest you hook it into an amp and then the speaker!
> 
> I don't think the E1 has enough wattage to drive speakers


 
  
 It feeds a signal in to some powered monitors which I keep on fairly low volume, otherwise I get very little room to adjust volume (via the E1) with my music. Between silent and fairly loud is definitely not more than say 60 degrees of volume knob rotation.
  
 That said, it's 24bit so there's probably not harm in turning the volume down via software to get more flexibility via the E1 volume knob.


----------



## Pippin76

dclaz said:


> I see, well mine would have got uncomfortable. I'm guessing it's because I had it turned up to almost max, the source audio was SUPER quiet.


 
  
 I've heard - probably somewhere on this thread - that the E1 will get hot if you use USB. I do, and mine gets pretty hot.
  
 I'd be surprised to hear if it had anything to do with volume but I'm no expert.


----------



## Mach3

dclaz said:


> It feeds a signal in to some powered monitors which I keep on fairly low volume, otherwise I get very little room to adjust volume (via the E1) with my music. Between silent and fairly loud is definitely not more than say 60 degrees of volume knob rotation.
> 
> That said, it's 24bit so there's probably not harm in turning the volume down via software to get more flexibility via the E1 volume knob.


 
 Are you using stock opamps in your E1?
 Because certain opamp like the LME 49860 or AD797BR causes oscillation and can heat up like crazy. 
 Possible solution is to bypass pin 4 & 8 with 0.22uf polypropylene capacitor.


----------



## dclaz

pippin76 said:


> I've heard - probably somewhere on this thread - that the E1 will get hot if you use USB. I do, and mine gets pretty hot.
> 
> I'd be surprised to hear if it had anything to do with volume but I'm no expert.


 
 I do use USB. I'd try optical, but don't have a long enough cable at the moment.
  


mach3 said:


> Are you using stock opamps in your E1?
> Because certain opamp like the LME 49860 or AD797BR causes oscillation and can heat up like crazy.
> Possible solution is to bypass pin 4 & 8 with 0.22uf polypropylene capacitor.


 
 I am using stock.


----------



## Sk1n5

The E1 should not get hot if you're using it with the stock opamps. I'm running AD797BRs in the I/V and LPF stages with OP627BMs in the headphone buffer. Mine gets warm, but I also installed a vent fan. In addition I have an E1 from the first production run with the "unbalanced" volume pot, however mine is only unbalanced at the first two volume increments.


----------



## dclaz

sk1n5 said:


> The E1 should not get hot if you're using it with the stock opamps. I'm running AD797BRs in the I/V and LPF stages with OP627BMs in the headphone buffer. Mine gets warm, but I also installed a vent fan. In addition I have an E1 from the first production run with the "unbalanced" volume pot, however mine is only unbalanced at the first two volume increments.


 
 This makes me worry a little bit. Because mine definitely heats up...
  
 Also, I believe the ASUS rep in this thread said the E1 has been unchanged since production? the volume pot hasn't been changed in the stock edition, only in the MUSES?


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> This makes me worry a little bit. Because mine definitely heats up...
> 
> Also, I believe the ASUS rep in this thread said the E1 has been unchanged since production? the volume pot hasn't been changed in the stock edition, only in the MUSES?


 
 Stop worrying mate, just enjoy it.....
  
 Some op-amp combos I've used got extremely hot without any probs


----------



## mtbbikelike

that right,It's going to be a crap wallwart anyway.  Would be good to replace it with a Sigma11 PSU or something.thanks


----------



## Gandah

mtbbikelike said:


> that right,It's going to be a crap wallwart anyway.  Would be good to replace it with a Sigma11 PSU or something.thanks


----------



## DMax99

I'm planing to pick up a second e1 today for 250.

I have 2 questions and hopefully you guys can give me some of your opinions:

1. Do you reckon the ODAC or schiit Modi will perform against the E1? (Btw, I'll be using it for my speakers) 

2. Will changing op amps change the sound of I'm using the RCA out to my speaker amp? If yes, which sections should I upgrade (to the muses01) 

Cheers guys


----------



## dclaz

dmax99 said:


> I'm planing to pick up a second e1 today for 250.
> 
> I have 2 questions and hopefully you guys can give me some of your opinions:
> 
> ...


 
 Are your speakers self amplified and do they have an easy to reach volume control? I was going to get the ODAC, but realized I needed a DAC with a volume knob. The knob on my monitors is at the back making it rather inaccessible from where I'm sitting/listening.


----------



## DMax99

Mine are hifi speakers so none powered. I will be connecting to t my tube amp. So i can the volume on the amp no problems 

I was going to wait for the e3 but it looks like that will be very expensive for me atm. I have heard from a friend that the ODAC sounds very good and the Modi seems to have good reviews here. 

Another option was the Musiland Monitor 02 US Dragon which is only about 140 and supports up to 32 bits/ 384 KHz. I'm not too sure if the higher bit rate will actually make the sound better though


----------



## dclaz

dmax99 said:


> Mine are hifi speakers so none powered. I will be connecting to t my tube amp. So i can the volume on the amp no problems
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 In that case, I would just get the ODAC and rest assured knowing it measures well and everyone seems to think it's a good DAC at a good price. I wouldn't get too caught up with bit depth and sample rates. But I'm fairly pragmatic when it comes to these things and I value objectivity over subjective reviews.


----------



## DMax99

Thanks for you opinion, but I couldn't help myself but to get a second E1 locally since its a pretty good deal! 

It'sthe first time I could really compare the muses01 and the stock without too much time gap in between (time changing the amps). I must say I have fell in love with the muses01 again. The mids are so smooth and more forward. The soundstage is bigger. They produce more power too as I didn't have to turn the volume knob up as much ccompared to the stock ones. 

There is something different between this second hand one with my original one. The original one when it being turned on, you can click "one" clicking sound from the inside of the unit; Where as the second hand one made "2" clicking sound?

Ps. I'll post a photo of my stereo setup tomorrow


----------



## leeperry

dmax99 said:


> Modi will perform against the E1?


 
  
 I'm currently listening to a MODI connected using an über-short Belkin USB cable, and meh.........this is a $99 USB powered DAC with a jellybean dual opamp for filtering purposes, you really cannot compare it to a full blown E1. And the ES9013 "Sabre" DAC chip they use in a lot of cheap USB DAC's costs less than a buck, don't expect miracles either IME as manufacturers try to sell it as a cheaper ES9018 but it is not.


----------



## Gandah

dmax99 said:


> Thanks for you opinion, but I couldn't help myself but to get a second E1 locally since its a pretty good deal!
> 
> It'sthe first time I could really compare the muses01 and the stock without too much time gap in between (time changing the amps). I must say I have fell in love with the muses01 again. The mids are so smooth and more forward. The soundstage is bigger. They produce more power too as I didn't have to turn the volume knob up as much ccompared to the stock ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow I'm so not missing the blue led lights, I forgot how bright they were 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  still a great sounding DAC though......


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Wow I'm so not missing the blue led lights, I forgot how bright they were :eek:   still a great sounding DAC though......




Lol I love the blue lights matches my keyboard lights ;p


----------



## Mach3

dmax99 said:


> Thanks for you opinion, but I couldn't help myself but to get a second E1 locally since its a pretty good deal!
> 
> It'sthe first time I could really compare the muses01 and the stock without too much time gap in between (time changing the amps). I must say I have fell in love with the muses01 again. The mids are so smooth and more forward. The soundstage is bigger. They produce more power too as I didn't have to turn the volume knob up as much ccompared to the stock ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow your view on the MUSES certainly changed. I remember a few, few post ago in this thread you stated the MUSES had a smaller soundstage compared to the stock opamps. Wish the MUSES01 would be more readily available, want 11 to flood my E1 with.


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Wow your view on the MUSES certainly changed. I remember a few, few post ago in this thread you stated the MUSES had a smaller soundstage compared to the stock opamps. Wish the MUSES01 would be more readily available, want 11 to flood my E1 with.




I think that's when I was talking about the "FAKE" Muses01 I've bought from some Chinese eBay like site. The ones I'm using now are the GENUINE ones I've bought from Gandah


----------



## DMax99

Finally got the E1 added to the collection on the shelve now ;D


----------



## Gandah

dmax99 said:


> Finally got the E1 added to the collection on the shelve now ;D


 
 Nice setup


----------



## DMax99

gandah said:


> Nice setup




Cheers mate! That will be my last purchase for a while, I'm broke... Lol

Maybe when the E3 drops down to about 300 or 400 that's when I'll be buying again Lol ;p


----------



## Mach3

gandah said:


> Nice setup


 
 Nice setup indeed. DMax99 correct me if I'm wrong, I see a bottlehead crack top left. What's the two other tube device on the top right and just below the the E1 if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## DMax99

mach3 said:


> Nice setup indeed. DMax99 correct me if I'm wrong, I see a bottlehead crack top left. What's the two other tube device on the top right and just below the the E1 if you don't mind me asking.




Thanks Mach, 

The top left is the Darkvoice 336i, top right is the aune t1 and the bottom one is the synthesis Nimis 

They are all low mid range stuff, can't really afford anything too expensive atm Lol


----------



## Mach3

dmax99 said:


> Thanks Mach,
> 
> The top left is the Darkvoice 336i, top right is the aune t1 and the bottom one is the synthesis Nimis
> 
> ...


 
 Synthesis Nimis low mid range? Really, aren't these amp like $2k.


----------



## DMax99

Really? Haha... I thought they were low mid range since most high range tube amps for Hi Fi speakers are over like 3 or 4 grand?? I'm not sure though since I'm still a noob in the speaker world. I just thought I would try a "real" tube amp since I've never had any and 400 bucks seems like a good deal since there isn't many second hand ones of the Nimis around at all (also came with 5 sets of spare tubes). 

They do sound pretty good though. I've bought new set of jj el84, 12AX7 and tung Sol 12AX7.


----------



## Mach3

dmax99 said:


> Really? Haha... I thought they were low mid range since most high range tube amps for Hi Fi speakers are over like 3 or 4 grand?? I'm not sure though since I'm still a noob in the speaker world. I just thought I would try a "real" tube amp since I've never had any and 400 bucks seems like a good deal since there isn't many second hand ones of the Nimis around at all (also came with 5 sets of spare tubes).
> 
> They do sound pretty good though. I've bought new set of jj el84, 12AX7 and tung Sol 12AX7.


 
 If you're one made out of wood it like over $2k not including postage. I think more like $2.7k after shipping and tax. Geez you score big on that one.


----------



## DMax99

Really? I haven't come across any wood ones yet. However, if you look some of the tube amps in this hifi store, they are easily over 5 grand! :

http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/30

Yeah, that's why I decided to drive an hour to pick this amp up. It's a 2 channel mono amp so you can adjust the volume on each side of speaker separately. The only thing that's bad about the amp is that it's missing the tube cover which is not a big deal even though the tubes get really really hot. 



mach3 said:


> If you're one made out of wood it like over $2k not including postage. I think more like $2.7k after shipping and tax. Geez you score big on that one.


----------



## upside

Does anyone know the difference between the different labels on the Muses 01 chips? I have seen Muses 01 201 and Muses 01 204 as well as the Muses 01 901 chips and was wondering what the difference may be?
  
 I did go back through the thread and saw some speculation about serial numbers but was wondering if anyone knows for sure?


----------



## Gandah

upside said:


> Does anyone know the difference between the different labels on the Muses 01 chips? I have seen Muses 01 201 and Muses 01 204 as well as the Muses 01 901 chips and was wondering what the difference may be?
> 
> I did go back through the thread and saw some speculation about serial numbers but was wondering if anyone knows for sure?


 
 Batch #
  
 If you are buying muses, try to buy them with a uniform batch #


----------



## upside

gandah said:


> Batch #
> 
> If you are buying muses, try to buy them with a uniform batch #


 

 Thanks Gandah.
  
 The reason I asked was that I have 2 E1 Muses DACs and there is a noticeable difference in the sound quality between them. The 201 series Muses version sounds better. It is more open and engaging. The 204 series E1 Muses sounds a bit lifeless and dull. I actually prefer my Plus version E1 to the Muses 204 version.
  
 One DAC does have the gain jumper update as well as the A10K volume pot but other than the different series Muses chips are identical so should sound the same.


----------



## palmfish

upside said:


> Thanks Gandah.
> 
> The reason I asked was that I have 2 E1 Muses DACs and there is a noticeable difference in the sound quality between them. The 201 series Muses version sounds better. It is more open and engaging. The 204 series E1 Muses sounds a bit lifeless and dull. I actually prefer my Plus version E1 to the Muses 204 version.
> 
> One DAC does have the gain jumper update as well as the A10K volume pot but other than the different series Muses chips are identical so should sound the same.


 
  
 They probably do sound the same. Without precise (instrumented) volume matching, there is no way to compensate for the different gain settings.


----------



## upside

palmfish said:


> They probably do sound the same. Without precise (instrumented) volume matching, there is no way to compensate for the different gain settings.


 
 Thanks palmfish.
  
 I don't think it is a gain differential that I am hearing. I have a good idea about gain matching when comparing components. I've heard relative loudness make a difference but nothing to the degree I hear between these two Muses samples.
  
 If I didn't know better I'd almost say the E1 Muses with the 204 chips is broken. It is not in the same league as either of my other E1s. I have heard others complain about the poor sound quality of counterfeit Muses chips which led me to wonder how much difference each legitimate Muses series number might make.


----------



## Gandah

upside said:


> Thanks palmfish.
> 
> I don't think it is a gain differential that I am hearing. I have a good idea about gain matching when comparing components. I've heard relative loudness make a difference but nothing to the degree I hear between these two Muses samples.
> 
> If I didn't know better I'd almost say the E1 Muses with the 204 chips is broken. It is not in the same league as either of my other E1s. I have heard others complain about the poor sound quality of counterfeit Muses chips which led me to wonder how much difference each legitimate Muses series number might make.


 
 I had the 204 and they sounded amazing, have you swapped them out to your second unit? it could be the unit itself that sounds lifeless and dull and not the 204s
  
 Also is the E1 with the A10k pot an official "Muses Edition" or is it the standard or Plus edition?


----------



## upside

gandah said:


> I had the 204 and they sounded amazing, have you swapped them out to your second unit? it could be the unit itself that sounds lifeless and dull and not the 204s
> 
> Also is the E1 with the A10k pot an official "Muses Edition" or is it the standard or Plus edition?


 

 Both the 201 and 204 editions I have are official Muses editions. The second unit with the 204 series chips was the "corrected" version that includes the gain jumper and the A10K headphone volume pot. I was assured that the gain jumper should not affect the sound difference I am hearing. The first E1 I have was the regular version that I upgraded with the Plus kit. The Plus version by far outshines the newest E1 Muses with the 204 chips which should not be the case.


----------



## Pippin76

I think I just bricked the headphone amp of the E1....I wondered if anyone here more tech-savvy than me can confirm that.
  
 I bought two LME49710s (metal top) to put in the headphone amp section. After I put them in, there was a loud POP when I plugged my headphone in and there was only sound in the left channel. I opened the E1 again and remembered how I'd read that you need risers for one of the opamps and sure enough, one of them wasn't plugged all the way in. Stupid I know. So I replaced the stock 49720s but still the same result: loud pop and no sound in the left channel.
  
 I may even have put the 49710s in with the wrong orientation (that little half-circle on the opamp indication direction or how you say it). Sigh.
  
 Anyway, can anyone advise me whether I have killed the headphone amp here? I'm getting a couple of risers in the mail in a couple of days but I'm not so hopeful. At least the dac part of it still works.


----------



## Poleepkwa

These are still being manufactured right? No replacement rumours yet?
  
 I just order one so I am hoping that the replacement will is not just around the corner. Bought this to replace an ODAC/O2 stack....


----------



## upside

gandah said:


> I had the 204 and they sounded amazing, have you swapped them out to your second unit? it could be the unit itself that sounds lifeless and dull and not the 204s
> 
> Also is the E1 with the A10k pot an official "Muses Edition" or is it the standard or Plus edition?


 
  
 As suggested by Gandah, I swapped the Muses 204s for the 201s from the good sounding E1 Muses. No difference in the sound quality. Still closed in and lifeless sounding. All mid-range and no frequency extremes. No punch.
  
 Where in the circuit would I start looking to find the issue?


----------



## gdourado

In regard to udio Quality with headphones, is this better than the STU?


----------



## Gandah

gdourado said:


> In regard to udio Quality with headphones, is this better than the STU?


 
 Going by specs alone, the E1 is better, however this also comes down to the individual and how they use the dac, but I'm confident in saying most people would prefer the E1 over STU for SQ


----------



## gdourado

Thank you for the reply.
Is the e1 miles ahead of something like a fiio e17?
How about a MacBook Pro with e1 playing Alac files against an iPod 5th gen playing Alac through a fiio e12?

Cheers!


----------



## palmfish

gdourado said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> Is the e1 miles ahead of something like a fiio e17?
> How about a MacBook Pro with e1 playing Alac files against an iPod 5th gen playing Alac through a fiio e12?
> 
> Cheers!




It really depends on the headphones you are using and your definition of "miles ahead."

With a sensitive, easy to drive headphone, I would say that no amp is "miles ahead" of the iPod unamped. If you need a more powerful amp and/or optical/coax digital inputs and/or preamp capabilities, then yes, the Essence One will be superior to the e17 and e12.


----------



## patcentjin

yes,That would seriously be a winning combo if it supported that. I doubt it though but one can always hope.thank you


----------



## ben_r_

Has anyone compared the E1 to the Emotiva XDA-2?


----------



## daws0n

It looks like my E1's USB input has developed a fault
  
 "Error code 10 unable to start device"..
  
 Any ideas guys? Luckily it's still functional over toslink/coax inputs.
  
 More info here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/696701/error-code-10-dac-no-longer-recognized-by-windows


----------



## Compfy Listenin

I have recently acquired an E1 Muses edition and a pair of Beyerdynamic T1's. I am already going crazy with the issue of channel imbalance. Please bear with me.

 I have read through the majority of pages on this thread. Especially the ones that mention the issue of channel imbalance.

 I live in Europe and ordered the unit from Hong Kong through accessoryjack.com. Best deal I could find at that moment. I paid a VERY pretty penny for this piece of hardware. A little over 1000 dollars plus a hefty customs import tax for my country; And right off the box I have to deal with this? Ridiculous. How much do you have to pay before these issues are polished out by engineers? This is completely outrageous.

 Off the box, the unit sounded great but it did take me a couple of days to actually believe my ears as I thought It was just the tracks I was listening to that were engineered with an emphasis on the left channel. But no: the issue is with the E1.

 Right now I have my windows mixer set to 94% volume on the left channel. This is far from being a perfect solution, however, as it prevents me from taking advantage of bit perfect and to make matters worse the Beyerdynamic T1's actually exacerbate the problem! The issue is noticeable on my ATH M50's but not as severe as on the beyers. Could it be due to the Beyerdynamics having much better soundstage? It is entirely possible that the Beyers themselves have an issue with the right driver that is compounding the existing E1 channel imbalance.

 Oh, right! And the channel imbalance is present through the entire range of BOTH the volume pots. I have a pair of Audioengine A5+'s connected through RCA and the left one is louder than the right one.

 I don't know and honestly I am losing my mind a little bit worrying about this.


 Can someone help? How do I find out if the T1's right driver is faulty? At the moment, the only equipment I can connect them to is the E1 because of their large jack (I don't have an adaptor but will get one if it is required to solve my predicament).

 And what do i do about the E1 muses? I could care less about the gain switch and volume pot; and to be perfectly honest "bit perfect" is more of a hassle than a boon for me but the channel imbalance is a ridiculous issue which should not be present.

 So with this in mid, I don't need or necessarily want to exchange it. It sounds great apart from this channel imbalance issue. If I can just iron out this issue by myself. But to do this and gain peace of mind I need to get a sense of how much to diminish the volume on the left side through software. Is there a piece of software which can measure that for me?


 Excuse the long winded post.


----------



## leeperry

Usually stereo mistracking is only obvious under 9 o'clock, definitely not on the whole volume range and definitely not always on the same side. IRL it basically comes and goes <9 o'clock.
  
 Can you try headphones with flat non-angled drivers and reverse them several times? You'd need to troubleshoot whether the problem comes from the recordings, the headphones, the E1 or your hearing. Using mono test tones would help a lot with your troubleshooting.
  
 That's the problem with importing expensive gear from abroad: import taxes and headaches should RMA be needed. And you might be forced to pay import taxes again when it'll be back from RMA. Asus might provide a worldwide warranty so if the problem really comes from the E1 I would talk to them first.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

Ok, I might be going crazy here. After another hour of earnest testing with my ATH Ad700x's (by listening to the same song with them connected to the E1 muses and then to my X-fi xtreme audio) and then with the T1's (doing the same) It seems that the imbalance is mostly caused by the T1's favouring the left driver.

 lol, this is crossing the hilarious threshold. I had tested this before and could swear it was the E1. Could it be the burn-in phenomenon playing tricks with my ears?

 Still, I'm not completely sure that the T1's are faulty. It could just be damaged hearing which the very detailed HP's revealed exists (although doubt it, as I'm only 25).

 How do I know for certain that the T1's are favouring the left side? Is there a tool or measurement I can use? Maybe ask someone with better ears?

 And then there is still the issue of the A5+ speakers. The perceived channel imbalance on the speakers could be due to their positioning. I'll try to reverse the stereo signal through vlc tomorrow when i can crank them (not at this hour. of night though).

 This is embarassing, frustrating and laughable all at the same time.


----------



## leeperry

compfy listenin said:


> How do I know for certain that the T1's are favouring the left side? Is there a tool or measurement I can use?


 
  
 I would measure the impedance of both drivers using a multimeter, use mono test tones and try the E1 with a phone that has flat non-angled drivers


----------



## Gandah

compfy listenin said:


> I have recently acquired an E1 Muses edition and a pair of Beyerdynamic T1's. I am already going crazy with the issue of channel imbalance. Please bear with me.
> 
> I have read through the majority of pages on this thread. Especially the ones that mention the issue of channel imbalance.
> 
> ...


 
 I feel your pain bro, and that's the only reason why I no longer own the E1.  I'm sorry to say the imbalance isn't fixable as the imbalance is a curvature of volume and level of source


----------



## DMarasovic

compfy listenin said:


> And then there is still the issue of the A5+ speakers. The perceived channel imbalance on the speakers could be due to their positioning. I'll try to reverse the stereo signal through vlc tomorrow when i can crank them (not at this hour. of night though).


 
 Play monaural recording through speakers, remember the stage position, then swap R<>L cable plugs at E1 outputs. If E1 is not in balance, stage position should change (to the right?).
 If there is not change, E1 is OK. You can also try to wear headphones R to left ear, L to right ear. The sound should not be correct as drivers are angled, but volume is comparable.


----------



## daws0n

Why not hook it up to your computer's line input and measure the r/l volumes using rightmark audio analyzer? I did the same test with mine due to channel imbalance Ive read about and the pot is balanced fine above 9-10 o clock.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

daws0n said:


> Why not hook it up to your computer's line input and measure the r/l volumes using rightmark audio analyzer? I did the same test with mine due to channel imbalance Ive read about and the pot is balanced fine above 9-10 o clock.


 
  
 That sounds like a good idea but how do I go about connecting it like that, pardon the noob question. I mean, the E1 has a coaxial input but all I have on the back of my PC is a light blue Analog line level audio input. Should I get a coaxial to minijack cable? I'm really a noob when it comes to this.


----------



## daws0n

It is easiest to hook it up to your computer via usb.

Connect rca outputs using phono>3.5mm jack wire or headphone output using 6.3mm>3.5mm jack wire to your sound card's line input.

Rightmark will then use these connections as a real time monitoring "loop"


----------



## Compfy Listenin

daws0n said:


> It is easiest to hook it up to your computer via usb.
> 
> Connect rca outputs using phono>3.5mm jack wire or headphone output using 6.3mm>3.5mm jack wire to your sound card's line input.
> 
> Rightmark will then use these connections as a real time monitoring "loop"


 

 Thank you very much. I have RMAA open. Where is the section where I can measure r/l volumes?

 Edit: Nevermind. It wasn't even necessary to plug it into the line input. A USB connection was suitable to check the levels. IT's just since you said "connect it to the line input" in your first comment I took it that it was necessary.

 All I had to do was select the E1 in playback devices on the rightmark audio analyzer. Everything seems to be balanced. I don't know if it's just my ears, but the problem seems to have gone away after a few hours of use and using the pots themselves (I seem to remember someone else in this thread said their problem simply went away after some time using the device, as well).

 O well, back to cranking my speakers with the Robocop OST flac files . Audio bliss.


 Thank you very much to everyone who answered.


----------



## daws0n

If you don't measure using the soundcard inlut you are just measuring the output from rightmark, it will having nothing to compare against..?


----------



## palmfish

If the problem went away all by itself, then it was your hearing (brain) all along. 

I'm glad you got it sorted out!


----------



## DMax99

Getting a higher impedance extension cord can solve the imbalance problem of the lower impedance headphones


----------



## gdourado

Comparing the Asus Essence One (not the Muse Edition) with the Teac UD-H01, which one comes on top, mainly for headphone listening?
 Anyone have experience with both?
  
 http://www.teac.com/product/ud-h01/
  
 Cheers!


----------



## daws0n

I had the TEAC very briefly.. Drivers were terrible so if you need usb support i'd look elsewhere personally (on Windows 7 at least). Sound wise it was OK but the Asus is a better built unit with superior support + the opamp upgrading option offers greater potential again.


----------



## gdourado

daws0n said:


> I had the TEAC very briefly.. Drivers were terrible so if you need usb support i'd look elsewhere personally (on Windows 7 at least). Sound wise it was OK but the Asus is a better built unit with superior support + the opamp upgrading option offers greater potential again.




Thank you for your reply.
The main use would be with USB, but on OSX. Does the Teac have problems with Mac?
Also, the price difference is around 100 euros, with the Asus being the more expensive one.
Is it worth it?

Cheers!


----------



## daws0n

I've not idea on mac support but it uses Tenor's TE8802 chip which is notoriously bad - the Asus c-media usb interface chip is far less problematic! I personally would say it's worth the difference... I returned the TEAC and kept the Xonar despite the £100 cost difference.


----------



## daws0n

http://www.head-fi.org/t/560940/teac-ud-h01-usb-dac/90#post_8952791


----------



## dukfi

Hello,
  
 I am interested for E1 muses.
  
 Bit-perfect LED lights with alsa on a linux system ?
  
 The problem of imbalance is present just with B10K ?
  
 The latest models are all A10K with adjustable gain ?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Did someone say Robocop ost!!?


----------



## endeeinn

Can the E1 be used to rip vinyl to digital wav files.  If so, what does the equipment hook up look like?


----------



## palmfish

endeeinn said:


> Can the E1 be used to rip vinyl to digital wav files.


 

 No.
  
 You need an Analog to Digital Converter and a computer.


----------



## ben_r_

Or a portable digital recorder with some darn good preamps.


----------



## endeeinn

palmfish said:


> No.
> 
> You need an Analog to Digital Converter and a computer.


 

 I have a media only computer and Muse EI and I didn't think so but had to ask.  What do you recommend?   I've looked at the Parasound Zphono USB.  Are there others I should consider?


----------



## gdourado

Is the Asus that much better just as a DAC / headphone amp when comparing to the Audioengine D1?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## palmfish

endeeinn said:


> I have a media only computer and Muse EI and I didn't think so but had to ask.  What do you recommend?   I've looked at the Parasound Zphono USB.  Are there others I should consider?




Sorry, I dont have any experience with digitizing analog. If I want a vinyl album ripped to FLAC, I buy the CD


----------



## Mr.Sneis

endeeinn said:


> I have a media only computer and Muse EI and I didn't think so but had to ask.  What do you recommend?   I've looked at the Parasound Zphono USB.  Are there others I should consider?


 
 Lynx Hilo


----------



## endeeinn

Re; ripping vinyl
 I tried going from my analog preamp out to the line-in on the computer and recording with Audacity (24 bit) and it works.  Only thing is I'm not sure if the quality is as good as I could get some other way.  Thje pre-amp is a vintage Yamaha CX2020 with a great head-amp for my MC cartridge so that is OK but I'm not sure about going into the computer's on-board sound line-in.   I do have an Audiotrack Prodigy HD2 Advance DE with up-graded op-amps that I removed when I got the E1 muse.  I could re-install that for ripping if it is thought that the quality would be better.   Thoughts ... comments?  Thanks.


----------



## BabylonDown

gdourado said:


> Is the Asus that much better just as a DAC / headphone amp when comparing to the Audioengine D1?
> 
> Cheers!


 

 I can't imagine it being so. I am using a Xense and the sound is ok. I think it comes down to the headphones more, but the Audiogene I would think would be slightly higher quality.


----------



## palmfish

babylondown said:


> I can't imagine it being so. I am using a Xense and the sound is ok. I think it comes down to the headphones more, but the Audiogene I would think would be slightly higher quality.




Imagine? :rolleyes:


----------



## Swolern

I got the Essence One paired with my new HD800. Has anyone compared similar cans with this amp/DAC and a tube amp or other higher-end amp? It sounds amazing as is(except could use a little more pronounced bass in certain songs). I am just wondering if I am missing anything in a higher-end amp.


----------



## palmfish

My Bottlehead Crack does give my HD 800's more "meat on the bones" but at the expense of some of the Essence One's clarity. I think they are both outstanding with the HD 800.


----------



## upside

swolern said:


> I got the Essence One paired with my new HD800. Has anyone compared similar cans with this amp/DAC and a tube amp or other higher-end amp? It sounds amazing as is(except could use a little more pronounced bass in certain songs). I am just wondering if I am missing anything in a higher-end amp.


 

 I prefer the T1s with the E1 Muses over the HD 800s. I find they have more punch and roundness in the low end but give up a bit of the HD 800 clarity through the mids. Overall I prefer the HD 800s with the HDVD 800 amp - which makes sense I suppose.


----------



## Swolern

upside said:


> I prefer the T1s with the E1 Muses over the HD 800s. I find they have more punch and roundness in the low end but give up a bit of the HD 800 clarity through the mids. Overall I prefer the HD 800s with the HDVD 800 amp - which makes sense I suppose.


 
 Hmm. I do feel that the lows are lacking a little bit with certain genres. But oh my the soundstage!!! Instrumental, vocal, and classical are completely amazing, the realism is astonishing. Dubstep & hip hop feels like it needs some more oomph in the low end. T1s might be my next cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Either that or a higher-end amp, havent decided yet. Not sure if i want to spend that much on the HDVD 800.


----------



## palmfish

I really liked the T1 paired with my Essence One Muses too. Its a very solid combo.


----------



## upside

swolern said:


> Hmm. I do feel that the lows are lacking a little bit with certain genres. But oh my the soundstage!!! Instrumental, vocal, and classical are completely amazing, the realism is astonishing. Dubstep & hip hop feels like it needs some more oomph in the low end. T1s might be my next cans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you are considering the HDVD 800 with your HD 800s, I don't think it will bring the bass output you are looking for. The E1 is already quite a full sounding amp with good bass reach. The Sennheiser pair is even leaner, to my ear,  than the HD 800 with the E1 Muses. The two Senns together though are quite special, albeit very neutral - almost to a fault.


----------



## Swolern

upside said:


> If you are considering the HDVD 800 with your HD 800s, I don't think it will bring the bass output you are looking for. The E1 is already quite a full sounding amp with good bass reach. The Sennheiser pair is even leaner, to my ear,  than the HD 800 with the E1 Muses. The two Senns together though are quite special, albeit very neutral - almost to a fault.


 
 Well I definitely don't want to go leaner. But I did find many Lossless tracks to make the HD800 shine. And boy do they!!!! PURE AUDIO BLISS! Extremely happy the E1 + HD800 right now.
  
 My E11 is the standard edition. What is the difference in the Muses edition as far as sound? And I have heard there was a mod to turn the standard into a Muses. True?


----------



## Dionysus

Was finally able to find an authorized dealer with Muses-01 in inventory and factory authorized by NJR link provided below…
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NJR/MUSES01/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhLj53VmnKEqFRFz215J7cixEDbz0teI2s%3d
  
 For many of you who have tried to find these and had your trepidations about the places to source them from, I purchased a total of 4 ea. at $65.00 dollars, I was able to negotiate a price with the online CRS the experience was excellent op-amps arrived fast and more importantly these are the real deal Muses-01.
  
 They sound fantastic with my HD700, I was previously rolling with theLM49990 and those are good but the level of detail from muses-01 are on another level.
 I do have a question from fellow headfiers I placed 2 in the low pass filter sockets and 2 in the headphone buffer would I benefit if I purchased 4 more for the I/V, if I was listening primarily through the headphone?


----------



## upside

swolern said:


> Well I definitely don't want to go leaner. But I did find many Lossless tracks to make the HD800 shine. And boy do they!!!! PURE AUDIO BLISS! Extremely happy the E1 + HD800 right now.
> 
> My E11 is the standard edition. What is the difference in the Muses edition as far as sound? And I have heard there was a mod to turn the standard into a Muses. True?


 

 I have all three versions of the E1 (Standard, Plus and Muses) and find each quite distinct in sound. I have now permanently upgraded my Standard E1 to the Plus and only listen to the Plus and Muses. The Plus is a definite improvement over the Standard in every way. Soundstage is bigger and has more impact. The bass is warmer but not overblown. The mids and highs are much more natural, cleaner and extended. The E1 Muses is more neutral than the Plus with a lower noise floor and more detail with the most natural sound of all E1 versions.
  
 The great thing about the Asus Essence One is that you can move up to the next level by swapping the op-amps yourself. The E1 Muses retail version does also give you the ability to adjust gain with jumpers for IEMs and other low impedance phones. But other than gain settings, the sound is more a function of the op-amps you select. There have been many great op-amp recommendations for the E1 in this thread.


----------



## shyamelge

upside said:


> I have all three versions of the E1 (Standard, Plus and Muses) and find each quite distinct in sound. I have now permanently upgraded my Standard E1 to the Plus and only listen to the Plus and Muses. The Plus is a definite improvement over the Standard in every way. Soundstage is bigger and has more impact. The bass is warmer but not overblown. The mids and highs are much more natural, cleaner and extended. The E1 Muses is more neutral than the Plus with a lower noise floor and more detail with the most natural sound of all E1 versions.


 
  
 Which opamp combo are you using in the Plus version? 
  
My initial purchase with Standard version with stock op amps. Currently I am using 4 pieces of OPA2132PA in I/V and 5 pieces of 49720HA (metal caps) in LPF and HP/RCA outputs and this combo outperforms the sound quality of both Standard and Plus versions. I bought these opamps later on. My guess is that 49720 has played a bigger role in sound improvement. I have never tried the Muses version or op amps so can't comment.


----------



## Dionysus

Anyone?
  
 I could use feedback,  I placed 2 Muses-01 in the low pass filter sockets and 2 in the headphone buffer, would I benefit adding another 4 more muses-01 and adding those in the I/V sockets if I was using my Essence one primarily with phones? Does the I/V make a difference to the SQ?  thanks in advance.


----------



## shyamelge

Most user comments here (and elsewhere) suggest that Muses should be ideally used in I/V and LPF stages.


----------



## Dionysus

Shyamelge, thank you for you quick response, so should I move all 4 of the muses I currently have to the I/V put back the 5532 in LFP and use my LME49990 back in the headphone buffer? Do you think the E1 will sound better this way?


----------



## shyamelge

Yes, I think so. 
  
 If I am in your position, I may buy 2 more muses01 and put them in LPF stage and the matter is settled once and for all for these 2 sections. 
  
 Many users who installed muses in HP/RCA buffers did not find much improvements. In fact, many found that 49710/49720s (metal caps) perform very well in HP section and I can vouch that wholeheartedly. I have never tested 49990 so can't comment.


----------



## Dionysus

Thx swapped testing now.


----------



## upside

shyamelge said:


> Which opamp combo are you using in the Plus version?
> 
> My initial purchase with Standard version with stock op amps. Currently I am using 4 pieces of OPA2132PA in I/V and 5 pieces of 49720HA (metal caps) in LPF and HP/RCA outputs and this combo outperforms the sound quality of both Standard and Plus versions. I bought these opamps later on. My guess is that 49720 has played a bigger role in sound improvement. I have never tried the Muses version or op amps so can't comment.


 

 I am using the Asus op-amp swap kit so I have 2132PAs in the I/V positions and 4562NAs in the LPF as Asus recommended. Everything else is stock. I have heard great things about the metal can 49720s but did not test as I bought my Muses right after the Plus kit upgrade. I find the Plus version to be about 90% of the Muses for sound quality and actually prefer the Plus to the Muses with certain headphones and certain music but the Muses is the better piece in absolute terms.
  
 Have you experienced any heat issues or oscillation with your 49720s?


----------



## Dionysus

So.....very happy with SS I'm getting out of the E1 after moving around the 4 muses to the I/V and the LME49990 in the LPF. 
I have to say the muses are so good at micro details love them, bass is thigh sound stage is wide and vocals dead on. 
When I get some extra funds I'll buy 4 more and add 2 to the LFP and headphones and complete it to a full Muses E1 can't wait to hear it.


----------



## shyamelge

upside said:


> I am using the Asus op-amp swap kit so I have 2132PAs in the I/V positions and 4562NAs in the LPF as Asus recommended. Everything else is stock. I have heard great things about the metal can 49720s but did not test as I bought my Muses right after the Plus kit upgrade. I find the Plus version to be about 90% of the Muses for sound quality and actually prefer the Plus to the Muses with certain headphones and certain music but the Muses is the better piece in absolute terms.
> 
> Have you experienced any heat issues or oscillation with your 49720s?


 
 Initially, I was concerned over 49720s getting hot very quickly than other op amps but now I am using them for over the past 2 months without any issue. They are easily available online and not expensive so one can try them. 
  
 I have also heard from other forum members that the difference between Plus and Muses editions is in the range of last 5-15 percent - still a difference that counts much in audiophile circles. 
  
 You prefer Plus with which headphones?


----------



## GorillaSceptre

Got my E1 a couple days ago, first thing i did was check the balance with the volume under 9 o'clock and no issues there.
  
 Installing the driver's was simple and easy. but i wasn't able to update the firmware for some reason, i wont try to update again unless there's a problem. 
  
 The sound is buttery smooth,really enjoying it. Build is top notch apart from the plastic buttons, isn't bothering me though.
  
 I'm going into a local audio store today to buy some opticle cables, i'll compare it to some of the expensive stuff while i'm there. 
  
 All said and done it's brilliant for the money.


----------



## 4Real

Is there anything new out there that can compete with this at the same price point, as one year on and I'm still unable to get the muses edition in the UK from a UK supplier, which I find totally ridiculous.


----------



## shyamelge

At this price point, not many Dac-HP-Preamp combo come to my mind which can beat Asus Essence One in built, sound quality and functionality. My guess is that muses edition might still be available in limited quantities in Europe and Asia.


----------



## 4Real

If they were available in Europe I wouldn't have had a problem getting one, I've had a google alert set up on google shopping for a year and never seen one become available in the UK or the rest of Europe.
  
 Although I just spotted one on amazon uk and that's the first I've ever seen period.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

shyamelge said:


> At this price point, not many Dac-HP-Preamp combo come to my mind which can beat Asus Essence One in built, sound quality and functionality. My guess is that muses edition might still be available in limited quantities in Europe and Asia.


 
  


4real said:


> Is there anything new out there that can compete with this at the same price point, as one year on and I'm still unable to get the muses edition in the UK from a UK supplier, which I find totally ridiculous.


 


 True enough. I live in Portugal and could not find the muses anywhere. It was on sale through amazon.uk for a while and I was eyeballing it for a couple of months but never did make the decision to get it (partly because of financial capability, partly because of uncertainty) but once I finally decided to just get the thing it was no longer available  .Could not find it anywhere after that.

 Ended up ordering it from Hong Kong through accessoryjack.com (which I can recommend, as the item got here on time and very well packed).

 I had to pay a really hefty customs and import tax, though. But oh well, once the unit got here and I set it up and listened to it I immediatelly started to feel better.


----------



## Gandah

compfy listenin said:


> True enough. I live in Portugal and could not find the muses anywhere. It was on sale through amazon.uk for a while and I was eyeballing it for a couple of months but never did make the decision to get it (partly because of financial capability, partly because of uncertainty) but once I finally decided to just get the thing it was no longer available  .Could not find it anywhere after that.
> 
> Ended up ordering it from Hong Kong through accessoryjack.com (which I can recommend, as the item got here on time and very well packed).
> 
> I had to pay a really hefty customs and import tax, though. But oh well, once the unit got here and I set it up and listened to it I immediatelly started to feel better.


 
 Why not just buy the muses opamps and install them yourself. People in this thread who had both muses edition and standard edition muses upgraded, say the standard upgrade SQ is slightly better


----------



## Compfy Listenin

gandah said:


> Why not just buy the muses opamps and install them yourself. People in this thread who had both muses edition and standard edition muses upgraded, say the standard upgrade SQ is slightly better


 
  
 I see no reason why it should be better. Still, I was under the impression that the muses had a gaing switch at the back for lower impedance headphones (like my AD700x's). Apparently not so really I could have made the upgrade myself, I guess. No big deal. It's here now and sounding stellar.


----------



## Gandah

compfy listenin said:


> I see no reason why it should be better. Still, I was under the impression that the muses had a gaing switch at the back for lower impedance headphones (like my AD700x's). Apparently not so really I could have made the upgrade myself, I guess. No big deal. It's here now and sounding stellar.


 
 I'm just going by all the impressions I've read in this thread, I personally would not know as I've only had the standard muses upgrade, However I was going to buy muses edition for the gain jumper and A10K potentiometer, but after many dislikes between the two I stay with standard muses up until 4 months ago


----------



## 4Real

gandah said:


> Why not just buy the muses opamps and install them yourself. People in this thread who had both muses edition and standard edition muses upgraded, say the standard upgrade SQ is slightly better


 

 You would have to be a bit stupid not to do this unless you wanted the gain switch, in theory it should have been easier to buy the Muses Edition rather than buying the standard or plus versions and then sourcing the MUSES 01 Op-Amps.


----------



## Gandah

4real said:


> You would have to be a bit stupid not to do this unless you wanted the gain switch, in theory it should have been easier to buy the Muses Edition rather than buying the standard or plus versions and then sourcing the MUSES 01 Op-Amps.


 
 It's just the way it is, it's like how the PerfectWave DAC "PWD" mk1 upgraded to mk2 sounds better than the PWD mk2. All things should be equal but they are not unfortunately.....


----------



## gdourado

Hi.
I have two questions regarding the e1...
How does it perform on Mac and Osx? Does it have all functionality?

For the same price or cheaper, is there a better option of DAC, and headphone amp combo?

Cheers!


----------



## Gandah

gdourado said:


> Hi.
> I have two questions regarding the e1...
> How does it perform on Mac and Osx? Does it have all functionality?
> 
> ...


 

 From memory e1 sounded the same on both OSX and win7, however win7 needs drivers and ASIO, where OSX is more plug-&-play.
  
 For a better option? that depends on what version of E1 your referring too, for standard edition it's on par with a bunch of dac's around that price range, Plus edition is slightly better with more options but I don't think plus edition is worth the money, Muses Edition is definitely the better of the three, however Standard edition upgraded to muses edition is the better option for SQ, and works out cheaper


----------



## gdourado

gandah said:


> From memory e1 sounded the same on both OSX and win7, however win7 needs drivers and ASIO, where OSX is more plug-&-play.
> 
> For a better option? that depends on what version of E1 your referring too, for standard edition it's on par with a bunch of dac's around that price range, Plus edition is slightly better with more options but I don't think plus edition is worth the money, Muses Edition is definitely the better of the three, however Standard edition upgraded to muses edition is the better option for SQ, and works out cheaper


 
  
 Hi.
 I am relatively new to this world.
 Could you point a few options around the price range like you mentioned?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Gandah

gdourado said:


> Hi.
> I am relatively new to this world.
> Could you point a few options around the price range like you mentioned?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Fostex, Woo Audio, Schiit Audio, Audio-gd


----------



## Dionysus

I just ordered another 4 muses-01 from mouser electronics.com. Should have them late next week to complete the transformation of my E1 standard into a full fledged Muses unit can't wait.


----------



## ben_r_

dionysus said:


> I just ordered another 4 muses-01 from mouser electronics.com. Should have them late next week to complete the transformation of my E1 standard into a full fledged Muses unit can't wait.


 
 WHOA!? Youre buying those from Mouser at $75 a piece?! LINK


----------



## Dionysus

ben_r_ said:


> WHOA!? Youre buying those from Mouser at $75 a piece?! LINK


 
 Uhm no, I did not, I paid $65.00 ea.
  
 They allowed me to negotiate the price down some. But more importantly they are the real deal Muses-01, Mouser is an authorized reseller for NJR/JRC. So if you want to buy the Real Muses then this is the right place, if you want to take a risk with the endless pages of eBay resellers who are selling knock offs go right ahead.
 By the way these opamps change the SQ of this Amp/DAC to the next level.


----------



## turokrocks

gandah said:


> From memory e1 sounded the same on both OSX and win7, however win7 needs drivers and ASIO, where OSX is more plug-&-play.
> 
> For a better option? that depends on what version of E1 your referring too, for standard edition it's on par with a bunch of dac's around that price range, Plus edition is slightly better with more options but I don't think plus edition is worth the money, Muses Edition is definitely the better of the three, however Standard edition upgraded to muses edition is the better option for SQ, and works out cheaper


 
 I confirm, +1.


----------



## turokrocks

ben_r_ said:


> WHOA!? Youre buying those from Mouser at a piece?! LINK


 
 Please update us with your finding.
 I would like to see how much difference would changing the whole opamps to Muses, make.


----------



## ben_r_

turokrocks said:


> Please update us with your finding.
> I would like to see how much difference would changing the whole opamps to Muses, make.


 

 You mean *Dionysus's* findings right? Im not buying those things. In fact my ASUS E1 is up for sale.


----------



## Dionysus

ben_r_ said:


> You mean *Dionysus's* findings right? Im not buying those things. In fact my ASUS E1 is up for sale.




Just curious Ben what's with the, I'm not buying those things? Are you not happy with your E1? Are you unhappy with how much the opamps are? I mean I don't understand any of the comments you left on this thread. In other words I'm trying to get the point of the comment you left on this thread?


----------



## Swolern

Are there fake or lower quality Muses-01, like these $28 ones on ebay?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-ORIGINAL-MUSES01-High-Quality-Audio-J-FET-Input-Dual-Operational-Amplifier-/161085567268?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258172b124


----------



## Dionysus

I wouldn't trust anything on eBay, way too many fakes out there,but that's just me.


----------



## ben_r_

dionysus said:


> Just curious Ben what's with the, I'm not buying those things? Are you not happy with your E1? Are you unhappy with how much the opamps are? I mean I don't understand any of the comments you left on this thread. In other words I'm trying to get the point of the comment you left on this thread?


 
 E1 sounds good to me though I do not like the headphone amp at all so Im selling it to go with a dedicated DAC. I just think the MUSES01 are ridiculously overpriced. They're WAY overpriced at $40 a piece, and for any more than that they are just silly. There might be more expensive ones, but I dont know of any other op amps going for those prices, even the ones used in much higher priced DACs. So whats so special about MUSES? Probably nothing to actually justify the cost. Its probably just the illusion that since the buyer paid so dang much for them they MUST sound better. But alas, since I wont be buying them, I guess Ill never know for sure. Ill just rack it up with all the other gear I _have_ bought only only to find very little difference if any and then half the time its JUST different, not better, or worse, just different.
  
  
 Didnt mean to "go off", but you asked for clarification


----------



## Swolern

Ben, headfi is probably the wrong place to talk about overpriced hardware.


----------



## ben_r_

swolern said:


> Ben, headfi is probably the wrong place to talk about overpriced hardware.


 

 Ha ha yea I know. I have spent quite a bit because of this place, so I guess I carry that baggage with me whenever I hear about more stuff to buy. The sad thing is that hearing is SOO subjective, 99% of what you read about on here only applies to that person, their ears, and what they are convinced of in their mind. So you have three choices, buy whatever people are ranting and raving about and be done with it, buy everything and compare it all for yourself, or gracefully bow out and never come back here.


----------



## Dionysus

Lol so true. For me being a Person that does not have deep pockets rather then spending a ton on a new Dac/Amp, I chose to go the route of upgrading the Opamps still expensive but the lesser of the two evils. 
This might not be my end game but it is for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Swolern

Well from what i have seen the E1 is one of the best bang for the buck amps/dac for high-end headphones out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hopefully i can find some great deals on some authentic muses01s.


----------



## ben_r_

Anyone compared the E1 (any version) to the Schiit Bitfrost (preferably with the Uber Analog Upgrade)?


----------



## Dionysus

The muses make a huge difference in the upgrade path of the E1, as for deals I couldn't find a one and believe me I've been patient. 
unless you can find one from a fellow headfier selling here on the boards it's going to be hard. 
The most difficult as I have mentioned before is finding authentic ones that's the biggest challenge.


----------



## 4Real

So as I posted earlier in this thread, I've been keeping my eye open for ages for the muses edition to appear in the UK, and I've just noticed Amazon UK are advertising them at £556 which is a pretty good deal for a UK price considering you get six Muses.
  
 Sold by Amazon with free delivery, not available until 31 of January though.
  
 Just though I'd mention it in case anyone was still looking in the UK


----------



## gdourado

4real said:


> So as I posted earlier in this thread, I've been keeping my eye open for ages for the muses edition to appear in the UK, and I've just noticed Amazon UK are advertising them at £556 which is a pretty good deal for a UK price considering you get six Muses.
> 
> Sold by Amazon with free delivery, not available until 31 of January though.
> 
> Just though I'd mention it in case anyone was still looking in the UK




The E1 can be had here for 340 euros.
The muses, bought from amazon and payed in euros will be double that...
Is it worth it?

Cheers!


----------



## 4Real

gdourado said:


> The E1 can be had here for 340 euros.
> The muses, bought from amazon and payed in euros will be double that...
> Is it worth it?
> 
> Cheers!


 

 You mean the standard edition right? where exactly is it € 340 ?
  
 In any case standard edition € 340 your price, plus 6 x MUSES 01 € 358, Total price € 698
  
 That's still works out slightly more expensive and you don't get the gain switch which I'm after.


----------



## gdourado

4real said:


> You mean the standard edition right? where exactly is it € 340 ?
> 
> In any case standard edition € 340 your price, plus 6 x MUSES 01 € 358, Total price € 698
> 
> That's still works out slightly more expensive and you don't get the gain switch which I'm after.


 
  
 On Pixmania-Pro.com
 From an economy point of view, it is worth it, but what about in a sound point of view?
 Is the Muses that much better?
 Or let me ask another question.
 My desk setup is currently my Macbook Pro to Fiio E17.
 Will the Xonar One be a big upgrade from the Fiio in regard to SQ?
 And then, will the Muses be a big upgrade from the standard One?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## 4Real

gdourado said:


> On Pixmania-Pro.com
> From an economy point of view, it is worth it, but what about in a sound point of view?
> Is the Muses that much better?
> Or let me ask another question.
> ...


 
 Pixmania-Pro's price doesn't include VAT, with VAT included it would cost me £332 without delivery.
  
 I've only ever seen the Muses Edition available twice in the UK and it was priced at £700+
  
 There are loads of reviews comparing the Standard and Muses Edition, not to mention in this thread as well.


----------



## gdourado

4real said:


> Pixmania-Pro's price doesn't include VAT, with VAT included it would cost me £332 without delivery.
> 
> I've only ever seen the Muses Edition available twice in the UK and it was priced at £700+
> 
> There are loads of reviews comparing the Standard and Muses Edition, not to mention in this thread as well.




That's correct. But if I buy as a company client and not individual client, I buy vat free.


----------



## gdourado

Just one more thing...
How does the standard Essence One goes against the O2+ODac combo?
They cost roughly the same. The e1 might be 50 more expensive if much.

Cheers!


----------



## Poleepkwa

gdourado said:


> Just one more thing...
> How does the standard Essence One goes against the O2+ODac combo?
> They cost roughly the same. The e1 might be 50 more expensive if much.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 I had the O2+ODAC. Prefer the E1. This  depends on your headphones. Both are fine DAC/AMPS. The E1 can do lot more than the ODAC/O2. (inputs and outputs).


----------



## jabbilabbi

ben_r_ said:


> Anyone compared the E1 (any version) to the Schiit Bitfrost (preferably with the Uber Analog Upgrade)?


 
 Ya Ben, 
  
 my room-mate recently got the schiit bitfrost with uber analog.
  
 i have a plain jane E1 with stock op-amps.
  
 The bitfrost is noticably better sounding to me.  I'm debating upgrading my op-amps or just selling my E1 and moving to an op-ampless DAC like bitfrost.
  
 any advice out there internet?


----------



## shyamelge

Has anyone tried rolling OPA827 or 627 op amps in E1?
  
 Any harmful oscillation or other issues while using them?


----------



## Sk1n5

Both are unity gain stable, therefore no oscillation.


----------



## dclaz

Any reason why windows 8 update wants me to download Asus Essence STU drivers for my E1?


----------



## dynamics

Asus Essence One Muses is a legend!
  
 I have tried a lot of DACs below $1000 and over $1000 and the Muses is still my favorite.
  
 Next one on my list that I would like to listen to sometime this year is the Antelope Audio Zodiac+.


----------



## TJ Max

Was the frequency cut off from upsampling issue ever fixed?


----------



## Swolern

The E1 has been absolutely wonderful with my headphones. HD800, T1, & TH-900. Especially the fact that the E1 has a great low frequency output, when combined with the HD800, which is a bright & bass light headphone. It does a great job of evening out the bass, mostly notable in the sub-bass. My recently purchased TH-900 is bass monster so a little EQ adjustment is needed to fit my needs, but maybe its due to my ears being use to the brighter HD800 & T1.
 Quote:


dclaz said:


> Any reason why windows 8 update wants me to download Asus Essence STU drivers for my E1?


 
  
 Win 8 is still buggy to this date with many programs. Frankly i wouldnt update any peripheral device per Windows advice. Only off the peripheral's manufactures website directly.


tj max said:


> Was the frequency cut off from upsampling issue ever fixed?


 
 Upsampling is really a useless feature, at least for me. This amp/dac paired with some high-end HPs, a person would want to be playing high def lossless tracks with a purest source as possible. Upsampling is really meant to smooth out low def sources, which would still be low res when smoothed out with upsampling.


----------



## TJ Max

swolern said:


> Upsampling is really a useless feature, at least for me. This amp/dac paired with some high-end HPs, a person would want to be playing high def lossless tracks with a purest source as possible. Upsampling is really meant to smooth out low def sources, which would still be low res when smoothed out with upsampling.


 
  
 I agree with that practical thought, but it's the principle that matters just as much. Technically this problem shouldn't be happening. There are much cheaper devices that upsample without limiting the frequency range. So it's not like it's a real technical limitation. So it's expected that a $500+ wouldn't have this problem. There isn't even an explanation as far as I know. Sometime earlier last year someone on this forum from Asus mentioned a firmware update but I don't know if it ever materialized. I don't have the DAC yet so I'm just getting ready for it. I'll be replacing a Teac UD-H01.


----------



## ben_r_

tj max said:


> I agree with that practical though, but it's the principle that matters just as much. Technically this problem shouldn't be happening. There are much cheaper devices that upsample without limiting the frequency range. So it's not like it's a real technical limitation. So it's expected that a $500+ wouldn't have this problem. There isn't even an explanation as far as I know. Sometime earlier last year someone on this forum from Asus mentioned a firmware update but I don't know if it ever materialized. I don't have the DAC yet so I'm just getting ready for it. I'll be replacing a Teac UD-H01.


 

 Didnt like the Teac UH-H01 huh?


----------



## TJ Max

ben_r_ said:


> Didnt like the Teac UH-H01 huh?


 

 The Teac UD-H01 is great I think it gets a bad wrap because it's earlier drivers are busted but it I was impressed by the build and sound quality. But it was my very first high end DAC, and I would like to try other things too. I just got a great deal on a Essence One on eBay so I took a chance with it. If  I don't like the Essence One I'd definitely go back to the Teac though I'd get the newer DSD version since I have the extra money now. (gotta love tax returns 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## Swolern

tj max said:


> The Teac UD-H01 is great I think it gets a bad wrap because it's earlier drivers are busted but it I was impressed by the build and sound quality. But it was my very first high end DAC, and I would like to try other things too. I just got a great deal on a Essence One on eBay so I took a chance with it. If  I don't like the Essence One I'd definitely go back to the Teac though I'd get the newer DSD version since I have the extra money now. (gotta love tax returns
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats on the E1. I really haven't payed attention to any upsampling updates. I did look at Asus firmware notes right now and it does not mention it. What headphone are you going to pair the E1 with?


----------



## TJ Max

swolern said:


> Congrats on the E1. I really haven't payed attention to any upsampling updates. I did look at Asus firmware notes right now and it does not mention it. What headphone are you going to pair the E1 with?


 

 I don't consider it a deal breaker, but I can see it as a minor annoyance. I'm going to pair with a pair of Beyerdynamic T90.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but does the E1 support wasapi output?

 I've been using foobar with ASIO but I get frequent BSODs with "irql_not_less_or_equal" messages. Furthermore, audible pops when starting or stopping a song and a clear delay (1 second) when moving the song position through the timer bar. I'm actually scared to move through the song as it will almost certainly cause a blue screen after a few position changes. I'm wondering if wasapi will make it better.

 If not, should I increase the buffer length? Decrease it? Also, should i be checking the "use 64-bit asio drivers" option in the output menu, seeing as I'm on Windows 7 64-bit? Run with high access priority or will that make it worse?

 **** me, digital playback is a pain in the ASS. I just want to listen to my flacs  . Can someone help clear this up? After unifying my iTunes and VLC media player libraries in foobar this is the last thing I wanted to have to deal with. ****.


----------



## TJ Max

compfy listenin said:


> I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but does the E1 support wasapi output?
> 
> 
> I've been using foobar with ASIO but I get frequent BSODs with "irql_not_less_or_equal" messages. Furthermore, audible pops when starting or stopping a song and a clear delay (1 second) when moving the song position through the timer bar. I'm actually scared to move through the song as it will almost certainly cause a blue screen after a few position changes. I'm wondering if wasapi will make it better.
> ...





I don't have my E1 yet, but I can recommend checking a few things.
First, under Windows sound properties - Playback Device - Advanced tab, do you have Exclusive Mode enabled?
I use ASIO4All to manage my ASIO driver, I change nothing except the Buffer bar at the bottom to the maximum.

Other tips, are to make sure Foobar2000, .Net Framework, and all drivers are up to date.


----------



## Swolern

Hey Compfy. Im running my E1 with Foobar & AISO after you gave me the DL link and havent had any problems. TJMax suggestions are a good start. Also are you possitive its Foobar? Have you had zero bsod prior to installing it? "Irql_not_less_or_equal" can be caused by a number of hardware devices, its driver, or related software.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

tj max said:


> I don't have my E1 yet, but I can recommend checking a few things.
> First, under Windows sound properties - Playback Device - Advanced tab, do you have Exclusive Mode enabled?
> I use ASIO4All to manage my ASIO driver, I change nothing except the Buffer bar at the bottom to the maximum.
> 
> Other tips, are to make sure Foobar2000, .Net Framework, and all drivers are up to date.


 

 Thanks for the reply TJ Max. Yes, exclusive mode enabled.
 I use the regular ASIO driver. Is ASIO4ALL the same? I've heard of it and read that it can help some issues where regular ASIO driver is causing problems. I've also read sound quality is inferior with ASIO4ALL. Is it not a user-made ASIO driver for PCs that don't support the regular one for some reason?
 Anyway, as per your recommendation, I set a larger buffer length. However, my BSODs seem to be the result of RAM usage. I worry that reserving more RAM for foobar will only exacerbate the problem. Maxing the buffer length seems to make no change in the crackles/pops when selecting songs and changing the time position of the track. These are still there

  


swolern said:


> Hey Comfy. Im running my E1 with Foobar & AISO after you gave me the DL link and havent had any problems. TJMax suggestions are a good start. Also are you possitive its Foobar? Have you had zero bsod prior to installing it? "Irql_not_less_or_equal" can be caused by a number of hardware devices, its driver, or related software.


 
  
 That's good to hear. Do you notice crackles/pops when selecting songs or changing their position in the progress bar? And a noticeable delay, too? I sure do. I just brushed it off as a consequence of ASIO but is this supposed to happen?

 And yes, I'm nearly 100% positive it's foobar. Had no BSODs whatsoever until installing it and using the bit perfect feature. The last one was a result of stopping the song being played and opening a youtube video. As soon as the youtube video sound was sent to the E1 (while foobar was still open), I heard a subtle crackle/pop and the BSOD occured.

 Can you share what drivers and firmware you have at the moment for your E1?


----------



## Swolern

Im on driver version 8.0.11.6, Firmware version 1.27. And on Win8. I havent updated my firmware yet. Now that you mention it i did notice a pop when starting a song only(not ending) in Foobar once or twice, but extremely rare. And i have not noticed any lag or delays when moving the song position through the timer bar, but i rarley do that so i can check it again when im at home.

Oh and i havent setup bit-perfect yet. Im still just running 24/192.


----------



## TJ Max

compfy listenin said:


> Thanks for the reply TJ Max. Yes, exclusive mode enabled.
> I use the regular ASIO driver. Is ASIO4ALL the same? I've heard of it and read that it can help some issues where regular ASIO driver is causing problems. I've also read sound quality is inferior with ASIO4ALL. Is it not a user-made ASIO driver for PCs that don't support the regular one for some reason?
> Anyway, as per your recommendation, I set a larger buffer length. However, my BSODs seem to be the result of RAM usage. I worry that reserving more RAM for foobar will only exacerbate the problem. Maxing the buffer length seems to make no change in the crackles/pops when selecting songs and changing the time position of the track. These are still there
> 
> ...





ASIO4ALL is not a driver, but a utility that manages the driver.
If you were trying the buffer length within foobar, then try 1360 or 1920, those worked for me.
Maybe I missed it but can't you use WASAPI?


----------



## Compfy Listenin

Swolern, if you select ASIO: E1 as your output device then you are already running bit-perfect. Since you said you were running foobar with ASIO, then you must have the bit-perfect feature up and running. I have no problems running foobar with Direct Sound through the windows mixer. The problem is tied to ASIO.

 As for WASAPI: that was my original question, TJ. I wondered if, since ASIO is giving me such a hard time, WASAPI would make things better. But I think the E1 only supports ASIO for some reason. Gosh, this is confusing and badly documented, if you ask me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .


----------



## TJ Max

But what happens when you just try Wasapi? Is there an error?


----------



## Swolern

compfy listenin said:


> Swolern, if you select ASIO: E1 as your output device then you are already running bit-perfect. Since you said you were running foobar with ASIO, then you must have the bit-perfect feature up and running. I have no problems running foobar with Direct Sound through the windows mixer. The problem is tied to ASIO.


 
 Hmm. Well i have my setup a little different. Im tied into my Essence STX sound card with digital output to the E1. I know i have been to lazy to remove my STX from my PC after i upgraded to the E1. I have just been enjoying music, the little time i get to. Oh and buying headphones, which i need to stop, lol.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

tj max said:


> But what happens when you just try Wasapi? Is there an error?


 

 After installing the wasapi component, I get 2 options in foobar output options: either wasapi (event) or wasapi (push) . I have no idea what to pick and since I don't want to break anything, I thought I'd ask here first. EDIT: yeah, the bit-perfect feature does not work when selectin wasapi. E1 only supports ASIO, apparently. What really irks me about ASIO (apart from the BSODs) is the crackles and delays when moving the song timer bar around. In a way, I feel like I'm moving the needle on a vynil record and it makes me uncomfortable.
  


swolern said:


> Hmm. Well i have my setup a little different. Im tied into my Essence STX sound card with digital output to the E1. I know i have been to lazy to remove my STX from my PC after i upgraded to the E1. I have just been enjoying music, the little time i get to. Oh and buying headphones, which i need to stop, lol.


 


 Oh, I see. But then again the STX is probably a much better choice for gaming because of the virtual surround features. So in your position, I would keep it.

 What do you select as your output device, then?

 As for buying headphones: hey, if it makes you happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## derbigpr

So the Muses edition should not have the channel imbalance issues everyone was talking about?


----------



## Compfy Listenin

OK, I set the foobar buffer length to around 6000ms (anything higher and the spectrum visualization was reduced to 10fps) and messed around with ASIO control panel. There is a bit depth option there. It was set to 16bits. I set it to 24/32. The delay and crackle/pops when switching songs or changing time positions have been reduced but they are still present.

 Also, my most recent go-to track for SQ testing (a 24/96 vinyl rip of Daft Punk - Contact, off Random Access Memories) was sounding like crap. Lo and behold after setting the bit depth to 24/32 on ASIO control panel it is back to sounding stellar. The drums on this track are seriously tasty and full.

 My question is why is there even a bit-depth option in the ASIO control panel and why does it make such a huge difference in SQ? Are you telling me that even with bit-perfect enabled the bit depth is still up for debate? I imagine that downsampling (like it was doing) has a bigger negative impact than upsampling (and trust me, the difference was clear as day on that track) but jesus christ most of my music is 16 bits. If ASIO is set to 24/32 bit depth in the control panel this is bound to affect the music?

 Luckily, I'm not that much of an audiophile as to be really bothered by this but holy hell you'd think that by 2014 listening to good sounding music through your PC wouldn't be this much of a hassle.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

derbigpr said:


> So the Muses edition should not have the channel imbalance issues everyone was talking about?


 


 Hi derbigpr. It shouldn't, but it does. I have one and it's hard to use low impedance headphones with the unit as you need to bring the volume dial up past 9 o' clock or so to get rid of the imbalance.

 Also, I can swear the issue was more prevalent on the first couple of weeks after I got it. Even at high volumes, I could hear louder volume from the left channel, both on speakers and headphones. Now, after a couple of months owning it, it seems to be perfectly even as long you pass that 9 o' clock point.


----------



## derbigpr

compfy listenin said:


> Hi derbigpr. It shouldn't, but it does. I have one and it's hard to use low impedance headphones with the unit as you need to bring the volume dial up past 9 o' clock or so to get rid of the imbalance.
> 
> 
> Also, I can swear the issue was more prevalent on the first couple of weeks after I got it. Even at high volumes, I could hear louder volume from the left channel, both on speakers and headphones. Now, after a couple of months owning it, it seems to be perfectly even as long you pass that 9 o' clock point.





Well screw that then....I can cross the Essence One off of my list as well since I don't want to risk buying a faulty unit. I really don't understand how the engineers can be this stupid when designing a product...putting such expensive components and so much effort into a product and then they ruin it all with some cheap 2 dollar potentiometers...it's just beyond me...I wouldn't put the pot they're using into a 20 dollar DIY headphone amp project, let alone a 1000 dollar unit. Arguably the most important component in an amplifier, which will make or break the sound, and they skimp on it. I feel like every single product in this world is designed, is then given to a bunch of toddlers and they're told "now fck it up in some way", before they start selling it, because issues that some products, expensive products, have seem way too simple for any reasonable manufacturer to ignore them or be unable to fix them. The reason why I'm even looking for a new amp/dac is because my current setup has an issue of channel imbalance, and its the only reason why i want to get rid of it. I'm just giving up on these combos and getting myself a Lehmann BCL to run the T1's. I hope that wont have the imbalance.

Btw: does your unit have B10 or A10 volume pots?


----------



## 4Real

derbigpr said:


> Well screw that then....I can cross the Essence One off of my list as well since I don't want to risk buying a faulty unit. I really don't understand how the engineers can be this stupid when designing a product...putting such expensive components and so much effort into a product and then they ruin it all with some cheap 2 dollar potentiometers...it's just beyond me...I wouldn't put the pot they're using into a 20 dollar DIY headphone amp project, let alone a 1000 dollar unit. Arguably the most important component in an amplifier, which will make or break the sound, and they skimp on it. I feel like every single product in this world is designed, is then given to a bunch of toddlers and they're told "now fck it up in some way", before they start selling it, because issues that some products, expensive products, have seem way too simple for any reasonable manufacturer to ignore them or be unable to fix them. The reason why I'm even looking for a new amp/dac is because my current setup has an issue of channel imbalance, and its the only reason why i want to get rid of it. I'm just giving up on these combos and getting myself a Lehmann BCL to run the T1's. I hope that wont have the imbalance.
> 
> Btw: does your unit have B10 or A10 volume pots?


 
  
 If its a muses edition it should have both, the A10 is only used on the Headphone.


----------



## TJ Max

compfy listenin said:


> OK, I set the foobar buffer length to around 6000ms (anything higher and the spectrum visualization was reduced to 10fps) and messed around with ASIO control panel. There is a bit depth option there. It was set to 16bits. I set it to 24/32. The delay and crackle/pops when switching songs or changing time positions have been reduced but they are still present.
> 
> Also, my most recent go-to track for SQ testing (a 24/96 vinyl rip of Daft Punk - Contact, off Random Access Memories) was sounding like crap. Lo and behold after setting the bit depth to 24/32 on ASIO control panel it is back to sounding stellar. The drums on this track are seriously tasty and full.
> 
> ...


 
  
 With my Teac UD-H01, the Output Format is disabled in Foobar2000 while using ASIO, and the ASIO4ALL doesn't have a bit depth option. I recommend trying ASIO4ALL. 2.11 http://www.asio4all.com/
 I should have my E1 tomorrow to see out it works myself. And later in the week I'll have a Teac UD-501!
  
 Another music app to try is MusicBee, it supports bit perfect as well, and might have better performance.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

derbigpr said:


> Well screw that then....I can cross the Essence One off of my list as well since I don't want to risk buying a faulty unit. I really don't understand how the engineers can be this stupid when designing a product...putting such expensive components and so much effort into a product and then they ruin it all with some cheap 2 dollar potentiometers...it's just beyond me...I wouldn't put the pot they're using into a 20 dollar DIY headphone amp project, let alone a 1000 dollar unit. Arguably the most important component in an amplifier, which will make or break the sound, and they skimp on it. I feel like every single product in this world is designed, is then given to a bunch of toddlers and they're told "now fck it up in some way", before they start selling it, because issues that some products, expensive products, have seem way too simple for any reasonable manufacturer to ignore them or be unable to fix them. The reason why I'm even looking for a new amp/dac is because my current setup has an issue of channel imbalance, and its the only reason why i want to get rid of it. I'm just giving up on these combos and getting myself a Lehmann BCL to run the T1's. I hope that wont have the imbalance.
> 
> Btw: does your unit have B10 or A10 volume pots?


 

 I completely agree. It's moronic to have a 1000 dollar product exhibit such ground level faults like this. It's inexcusable and I would not have bought it had I known of this beforehand.

 But seeing as I am stuck with it, I still enjoy it very much with my T1's and Audioengine speakers.


----------



## Swolern

Compfy I select the STX as my output device in Windows. 

And wow I never knew about the channel imbalance issue. Even with my low impedance TH-900 I always leave the E1 volume dial at 12 o'clock and just adjust the volume via my PC. I will have to try that today and see if I have that imbalance problem also.


----------



## derbigpr

compfy listenin said:


> I completely agree. It's moronic to have a 1000 dollar product exhibit such ground level faults like this. It's inexcusable and I would not have bought it had I known of this beforehand.
> 
> 
> But seeing as I am stuck with it, I still enjoy it very much with my T1's and Audioengine speakers.





Does it at least sound good with the T1's?  Is there any headroom in the volume pot or do you have to turn it far up to get it loud? Since the specs say it outputs like 80 mW into 600 ohm, it seems a little low to me.


----------



## Swolern

Sounds amazing with my T1s. Any yes there is more than enough power to drive the 600ohm HPs. Max I can tolerate with the T1 is around 70% volume, and that is a absolutely blaring. My comfortable listening volume is between 30-50% depending on the music. Sound is full bodied with great mid-bass punch and clarity, and I'm only running the basic E1. 

In my experience the E1 is great with bright HPs as the E1 adds extra to the low end frequencies to even it out. The HD800 & T1 were amazing on it. The bassy TH-900 needed a little EQ adjustments to get it just right.


----------



## palmfish

The E1 is the first headphone amp that I have ever kept for more than a couple of months. It's one of the few pieces of headphone gear I have purchased where I actually feel I got my money's worth. I have had mine for almost a year now and I think it is a great pairing with my HD 800's. It's a terrific DAC with multiple inputs and a powerful head amp all in one desktop sized package. I feel not urge to replace it anytime soon.


----------



## Swolern

Finally installed bit-perfect on Foobar with ASIO. Sounds amazing! Wow! What took me so long, lol. Compfy I have not had any pops yet and there is no delay when changing playlist positions.
  
 Also checked for imbalanced channels with my low impedance Fostex TH-900 which are only 25ohm. Absolutely zero discernible difference even with the lowest amount of volume settings on the E1. 
  
 Compfy have you contacted Asus about your issue?


----------



## derbigpr

Well I managed to get a deal on the E1 and get a 10 day test period....it will arrive in a about a week, then I'll see if it has any issues with channel balance and decide whether I'll keep it or not.

Btw, did anyone directly compare the headphone output on the E1 to some standalone headphone amps?


----------



## Swolern

palmfish said:


> The E1 is the first headphone amp that I have ever kept for more than a couple of months. It's one of the few pieces of headphone gear I have purchased where I actually feel I got my money's worth. I have had mine for almost a year now and I think it is a great pairing with my HD 800's. It's a terrific DAC with multiple inputs and a powerful head amp all in one desktop sized package. I feel not urge to replace it anytime soon.


Palmfish, what connector and cable are you using for the hd800 to E1?


----------



## TJ Max

Alright! I just got my Essence One, and I just completed all the driver and firmware updates. I have questions here Why is there a volume knob for the analog outputs? I knew it was there before but it just dawned on me, why? Isn't the volume in Windows, Foobar2000, and on my receiver enough?
  
 PS. I may not be keeping my Essence One, even though I just got it! LOL It's not that I don't like it, but I have a Teac UD-501 coming too. So PM me if you're interested or wait until I post it in the For Sale Forum.


----------



## palmfish

swolern said:


> Palmfish, what connector and cable are you using for the hd800 to E1?


 
  
 I use the one it came with.


----------



## palmfish

tj max said:


> Alright! I just got my Essence One, and I just completed all the driver and firmware updates. I have questions here Why is there a volume knob for the analog outputs? I knew it was there before but it just dawned on me, why? Isn't the volume in Windows, Foobar2000, and on my receiver enough?
> 
> PS. I may not be keeping my Essence One, even though I just got it! LOL It's not that I don't like it, but I have a Teac UD-501 coming too. So PM me if you're interested or wait until I post it in the For Sale Forum.


 
  
 It's so you can use the E1 DAC as a preamp. I use that knob all the time with my BH Crack in order to keep the Crack's volume knob well away from the low volume channel imbalance it has.


----------



## Swolern

palmfish said:


> I use the one it came with.


 
 Just wondering if you tried a balanced cable or 3-pin connectors with it.


----------



## derbigpr

tj max said:


> Alright! I just got my Essence One, and I just completed all the driver and firmware updates. I have questions here Why is there a volume knob for the analog outputs? I knew it was there before but it just dawned on me, why? Isn't the volume in Windows, Foobar2000, and on my receiver enough?
> 
> PS. I may not be keeping my Essence One, even though I just got it! LOL It's not that I don't like it, but I have a Teac UD-501 coming too. So PM me if you're interested or wait until I post it in the For Sale Forum.





Do a comparison between the UD-501 and E1...  A lot of people would like to know how they compare directly, especially the headphone amp sections.


----------



## TJ Max

derbigpr said:


> Do a comparison between the UD-501 and E1...  A lot of people would like to know how they compare directly, especially the headphone amp sections.




Taken from Archimago's Blog
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/initial-impressions-teac-ud-501-usb-dac.html



> These TEAC UD-501 results suggest that nothing has been sacrificed in terms of performance in the PCM domain. Note that the ASUS Essence One is also based on the PCM1795 chip in dual-mono configuration but doesn't measure as well, highlighting the importance of the electronics around it like the analogue output stage, power supply and USB/coaxial/TosLink interface circuitry affecting the final output quality.






> The headphone amp sounds good. It's not powerful - rated at 100mW into 32 ohms but it drives the HD800 loud enough including some relatively soft classical test tracks I had. The amp could easily drive these headphones to ear-splitting levels with the usual commercial rock/pop/jazz/country tracks. The AKG Q701's are a bit more difficult to drive so I would avoid using these with softer classical selections with the TEAC. It's quite clear that the ASUS Essence One has a significantly more power headphone section in comparison.


----------



## palmfish

swolern said:


> Just wondering if you tried a balanced cable or 3-pin connectors with it.


 
  
 No, I do not own a headphone amp with balanced connections. I use either the Essence One's built in headphone amp or my Bottlehead Crack (which is connected to my E1 via the RCA pre-outs).


----------



## Compfy Listenin

swolern said:


> Sounds amazing with my T1s. Any yes there is more than enough power to drive the 600ohm HPs. Max I can tolerate with the T1 is around 70% volume, and that is a absolutely blaring. My comfortable listening volume is between 30-50% depending on the music.


 

 I would have to disagree on that  . Volume depends on the source. Yes it can drive 600 ohms easily and most modern music will be blaring at 80% (the fun kind of blaring, not the ear splitting "JesusChristIhavetoturnthisdownori'llgodeafholyheck" kind of blaring) but I have a few oldies with which I crank it up to 100% and still feel I could get a little more juice. I'm only 25, so I doubt it's hearing loss.

 Oh, and by the way you should strive to keep all your software volume controllers maxed! Use the analog volume on the DAC as software volume messes with the bit depth (read a great article about that some time ago, can't seem to find it now).


----------



## Swolern

Wow that must have been some weak sources, i have never been able to tolerate 100% comfortably. 
  
 Good tip on the analog volume on the DAC, didnt know that. Thanks.


----------



## TJ Max

I found that for Jazz and Classical with the Beyerdymanic T90, the volume knob was just right for me at roughly %25-%30. 
  
 If anyone is look for one I curently have one for sale with Free shipping in the For Sale Forum.


----------



## Sk1n5

compfy listenin said:


> OK, I set the foobar buffer length to around 6000ms (anything higher and the spectrum visualization was reduced to 10fps) and messed around with ASIO control panel. There is a bit depth option there. It was set to 16bits. I set it to 24/32. The delay and crackle/pops when switching songs or changing time positions have been reduced but they are still present.
> 
> 
> Also, my most recent go-to track for SQ testing (a 24/96 vinyl rip of Daft Punk - Contact, off Random Access Memories) was sounding like crap. Lo and behold after setting the bit depth to 24/32 on ASIO control panel it is back to sounding stellar. The drums on this track are seriously tasty and full.
> ...




On the same screen where you changed bit depth from 16 to 24/32 try changing the latency. I used to have this issue. My sweet spot ended up being 20ms, YMMV.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

sk1n5 said:


> On the same screen where you changed bit depth from 16 to 24/32 try changing the latency. I used to have this issue. My sweet spot ended up being 20ms, YMMV.


 

 Hey Sk1n5,

 Thanks very much for the tip! I keep getting occasional BSODs and I can tell it's due to foobar and ASIO  . Just yesterday I got a corrupted foobar theme file after the BSOD. Had to remake my layout and theme out of nothing (I think I got most of it right, but what a headache; it looked so good) and all the folders with my library were reset; I also had to re-add those.

 I went ahead and tried what you said. Set ASIO latency to 20ms and even the spectrum visualizer is now running at a higher framerate! Like if I was using DirectSound (in the past, when using ASIO, it would slow down to like 15 fps). Changing the time position of the song still provokes delay and crackle same as before, though.

 Just what the hell does ASIO latency do, though? Google search was unconclusive. If anyone can shine some light it would be very helpful.


----------



## Swolern

So im getting the upgrade bug on my dac/amp for my HD800. Focusing on the dac right now. Has anyone compared the dac on the E1 to high-end dacs $1000 & up? Wondering how much a difference it would be and if its worth the costs. I have heard the dac on the E1 is very good also. 
  
 The Muses version has the same dac as the regular E1 correct? Only difference is the op-amps?


----------



## palmfish

Differences between DACs are highly overstated in my opinion.


----------



## Swolern

Ya Im going to buy where i can return with no charge. I have to hear it for myself, my curiosity is getting the best of me. Looking for one of the highest amp/dac combos that i can try out for 30 days and compare it to my E1 that has been amazing IMO.


----------



## Compfy Listenin

I just popped in the thread to say that my E1 Muses is now giving off a burning smell. I have narrowed it down to the headphone amp, as when I pull out my headphones the tip of the jack gives off quite a strong burned smell. The audio also seems to be crackling in and out on some occasions (faint but noticeable).

 Welp, I guess this is it. The unit is 3 months old, for ****'s sake. I will not be buying another Asus product anytime soon.

 Sure, it's in warranty, but it came from overseas... What a ******* headache.

 I just hope this hasn't damaged the jack of my T1 cans!


----------



## shyamelge

Yesterday I tried OPA827AU (mounted on dual adapter) and 1612 along with other op amps in various combos.
  
 The best sounding combo to my ears was OPA827 at I/V stage and 49720HA at LPF. 
  
 This is the first time I tried the 827s and I must say that they are different from 2134/5532/4562/49720NA in sound quality - natural sounding with refined top end and deep bass. You get detail and punch. Soundstage is good but not the best.
  
 Price-wise, 827 is not as expensive as 627.


----------



## Swolern

Do you have any links to where you got them from?


----------



## PCWar

If anyone is interested I put my Asus E1 muses upgrade up for sale.


----------



## shyamelge

swolern said:


> Do you have any links to where you got them from?


 
 You could buy 827 from authorized sellers such as mouser or you could approach TI for samples but they give them in limited quantity.


----------



## ian666

Hi guys
  
 Ive spend few days reading this topic but still need to ask u one thing. I own Essence One Muses and im thinking about Beyers 990. Thing is, guy at local store warned me that it would be better to buy 250ohm versions cuz my xonar is probably too weak to power 600 ohm versions (i remember 6moons review saying xonar got 75mw at 600ohms, and beyer spec says 990 are 100mw). On top of that i can only test 250 ones cuz almost no one is buying 600ohm here.
  
 I saw one or two posts of guys testing both 250 and 600ohm version, saying that 600ohm sounds better on this xonar, more natural or having more bass (but like u know, where one person says something is great and powerfull, other person could very well say this is terrible, alot worse and go clean your ears).
  
 Like i said i cant test 600ohm ones (only 250) and since they are around 40% more expensive im still thinking what to do, cuz if u guys are sure essence one can power 600ohms i could blind buy them.


----------



## 4Real

ian666 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Ive spend few days reading this topic but still need to ask u one thing. I own Essence One Muses and im thinking about Beyers 990. Thing is, guy at local store warned me that it would be better to buy 250ohm versions cuz my xonar is probably too weak to power 600 ohm versions (i remember 6moons review saying xonar got 75mw at 600ohms, and beyer spec says 990 are 100mw). On top of that i can only test 250 ones cuz almost no one is buying 600ohm here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here's at least one person who's tried both Beyers 990 600 ohm and T1
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/945#post_8768150
  
 6moons tested the T1 amongst others
  


> Headphone drive potency covers all full-size operators except HifiMan's cruel HE-6
> 
> Sennheiser HD800, Beyer T1/T5p, HifiMan HE-500 and Audez'e LCD-2 all proved equal game where the Taiwanese converter reached quite beyond its station.


----------



## Gandah

ian666 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Ive spend few days reading this topic but still need to ask u one thing. I own Essence One Muses and im thinking about Beyers 990. Thing is, guy at local store warned me that it would be better to buy 250ohm versions cuz my xonar is probably too weak to power 600 ohm versions (i remember 6moons review saying xonar got 75mw at 600ohms, and beyer spec says 990 are 100mw). On top of that i can only test 250 ones cuz almost no one is buying 600ohm here.
> 
> ...


 
 600ohm is fine, as always most people underestimate, or can't believe the E1's capabilities and SQ, mainly because it's badge is a IT company.  The only headphone the E1 can not drive to it's fullest potential is the HiFiman HE-6 everything else is fine....


----------



## Mach3

gandah said:


> 600ohm is fine, as always most people underestimate, or can't believe the E1's capabilities and SQ, mainly because it's badge is a IT company.  The only headphone the E1 can not drive to it's fullest potential is the HiFiman HE-6 everything else is fine....



 


I've seen people use hifi speaker amps to drive the HE-6, that's how inefficient they are. LOL


----------



## gdourado

Hello,
 I am maybe interested in the HP-A4, but I have a few questions... 
 I am hoping some of you here on this thread can help me out...
 I want to buy a new DAC-Amp combo for my desktop.
 I currently use just a Fiio E17 with either IEMS (JVC FX700) or Over-hears (Citispace Uptowns).
 I recently pulled the trigger on some Mad Dogs 3.2 and those are the headphones I will be mostly using on my desktop.
 That is until the upgrade bug bites again...
  
 Anyway... I have a few options I am considering.
 The first one is the least expensiva and it is to keep my current E17 and pick up a Fiio E09K to complement it.
 The E17 would be used only as a DAC and the E09K would do the Amplification.
  
 Next option is to buy a new DAC-Amp combo and here I am torn between either the HP-A4 or the Asus Essence One (The non muses edition).
 The Fostex costs 3 times what the E09K costs and the Asus is even a bit more expensive than the Fostex.
 Both of these go to 24/192 over USB and that is an upgrade over the E17 24/96.
  
 From what I read around the web, both the FOstex and the Asus use the same brand of DAC chips, so sound should be similar.
 The Asus has the upsampling feature that I am not sure is good or useful. What makes me think about the Asus is because I read here that the Amp on the HP-A4 is on the weak side... So the asus  might be better as it is rated to drive phones up to 600 Ohms.
  
 Anyway...
 Based on what I said, what can you tell me?
 Are either the Fostex or the Asus worth the premium over the E09K for sound quality?
 How does the HP-A4 drive the Mad Dogs? Will the Asus do a better job?
 On a general note, what is your opinion about E09K vs HP-A4 vs Essence One?
  
 Cheers and thanks!


----------



## palmfish

Don't worry about 24/192 and upsampling - 24/96 is more than high enough. The E09k has significantly more power than the E17 to drive the MadDogs very well. Its 10 ohm output impedance means it probably won't pair well with your IEMs, but you have the E17 for them so it's no problem. The nice thing about the E09k for you is that it will let you use the E17 you already own as a DAC. I think it's a good way for you to go.


----------



## gdourado

palmfish said:


> Don't worry about 24/192 and upsampling - 24/96 is more than high enough. The E09k has significantly more power than the E17 to drive the MadDogs very well. Its 10 ohm output impedance means it probably won't pair well with your IEMs, but you have the E17 for them so it's no problem. The nice thing about the E09k for you is that it will let you use the E17 you already own as a DAC. I think it's a good way for you to go.


 
  
 Hello,
 Thank you for taking the time to reply.
 I also thought of that... To keep my E17 and complement it with an E09K.
 My portable rig is an iPod touch, connected to a Fostex HP-P1 that serves as the DAC and a Fiio E12 that serves as the Amp.
 I really like that setup, that is why I am thinking about the HP-A4 for desktop setup.
 How do you compare the DAC chips and implementations of the ASUS One, HP-A4 and E17?
 Does the ASUS deliver that much bigger sound quality and would the Mad Dogs be able to take advantage of it?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## palmfish

I think you already have too many redundant components. Your E17 can do everything you want to do all by itself. The HP-P1, Asus Essence One, E12, E9, HP-A4 don't bring anything more to the table.


----------



## DMax99

gdourado said:


> Hello,
> I am maybe interested in the HP-A4, but I have a few questions...
> I am hoping some of you here on this thread can help me out...
> I want to buy a new DAC-Amp combo for my desktop.
> ...




I had e17+ e09k as my first dac/Amp combo. I have to say that I didn't really like it. Even though it had enough power to drive my headphones. I found the sound to be a bit fatiguing, warm and lack of clarity. That's why I've sold them last year  

Asus xonar essence one is definitely an upgrade to the fiio combo. It has more details, clarity and bigger soundstage. 

If you find the Asus xonar essence one to be a bit expensive then I would also recommend you look into the Aune t1. It is a great dac/Amp with an option of rolling tubes and the sound is very good! That's why I still have my aune t1  

Hope this helps a bit!


----------



## gdourado

palmfish said:


> I think you already have too many redundant components. Your E17 can do everything you want to do all by itself. The HP-P1, Asus Essence One, E12, E9, HP-A4 don't bring anything more to the table.


 
  
 Hi,
 The HP-P1 and E12 are my "portable rig". I mainly use it at the office during work hours. The E17 is currently my home desktop setup. I have it connected to my iMac that stores my music library. That is what I am wanting to upgrade.


dmax99 said:


> I had e17+ e09k as my first dac/Amp combo. I have to say that I didn't really like it. Even though it had enough power to drive my headphones. I found the sound to be a bit fatiguing, warm and lack of clarity. That's why I've sold them last year
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for sharing.
 I have a question about the Asus One. Is the upsamplig feature worth it or just a gimmick? I am asking because both the E17 and HP-A4 don't have it.
 Also, any comparison between the HP-A4 and Asus One in regard to what you mentioned? Mainly, clarity, detail and Soundstage?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## DMax99

gdourado said:


> Hi,
> The HP-P1 and E12 are my "portable rig". I mainly use it at the office during work hours. The E17 is currently my home desktop setup. I have it connected to my iMac that stores my music library. That is what I am wanting to upgrade.
> Thank you for sharing.
> I have a question about the Asus One. Is the upsamplig feature worth it or just a gimmick? I am asking because both the E17 and HP-A4 don't have it.
> ...




To me the up sampling does nothing but somehow decreases the volume and make the sound seem a bit further away. 

However, E1 itself without using that feature will give you better clarity and soundstage than the e17 +e09k for sure! They will sound boring to you after you've heard the E1. Plus, when you have some extra cash, it's also worth the money to buy 6 genuine muses01 to swap with the stock op amps. They will give you even bigger soundstage and better bass (punchy not boomy)


----------



## palmfish

gdourado said:


> Hi,
> The HP-P1 and E12 are my "portable rig". I mainly use it at the office during work hours. The E17 is currently my home desktop setup. I have it connected to my iMac that stores my music library. That is what I am wanting to upgrade.
> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> ...




I asked about your HP-P1 and E12 because I don't understand why you use the E12 when the HP-P1 already has a headphone amp built in. 

Then the E17 as a desktop setup doesn't make sense to me either. The E17 is smaller than the HP-P1 so it makes sense to me to use the E17 as a portable amp/DAC. In fact, you could sell your E12 and HP-P1 and use the E17 for everything.

I have no experience with the HP-A4 but looking at the specs it seems like a nice unit. The Asus is a lot more powerful, but none of your headphones are hard to drive so I think any amp will do.

When I stated above that you shouldn't worry about 24/192 or upsampling, thats what I think. There is no audible difference between 24/96 and 24/192 and all upsampling does is (theoretically) add more processing to the source. 

So again, I don't think you need either the Essence One or the HP-A4 because they will not do anything that your E17 doesn't already do. In my opinion, the purpose of a "desktop amp" is to allow connection of multiple sources such as a computer, CD player, etc. and listen with "audiophile" high impedance low sensitivity headphones.

If I were in your shoes and Looking to build a high quality desktop system, I would sell the HP-P1, E12, and MadDogs and get the Essence One or Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 and Sennheiser HD 600. That's an end-game system IMO.


----------



## gdourado

palmfish said:


> I asked about your HP-P1 and E12 because I don't understand why you use the E12 when the HP-P1 already has a headphone amp built in.
> 
> Then the E17 as a desktop setup doesn't make sense to me either. The E17 is smaller than the HP-P1 so it makes sense to me to use the E17 as a portable amp/DAC. In fact, you could sell your E12 and HP-P1 and use the E17 for everything.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I use the HP-P1 because at the office I don't have access to my computer, so I use my iPods as source.
 The HP-P1 as a great DAC to bypass the iPods internal units.
 Then I got a sweet deal on the E12 and decided to give it a try.
 I like the sound signature of the E12 better than the HP-P1 amp. More Bass and a bit warmer sound.
  
 The E12 does not work as a DAC with the iPod, so I don't use it at work.
  
 At home I have my iMac with Audirvana and all my music library.
 I want to upgrade the DAC Amp combo at home.
 That is why I am wondering which route to go for...
  
 I need to keep the HP-P1 to use at work for the reasons I mentioned above.
  
 Maybe I can try out an E09K since I am already usedto the Fiio soundsignature on the E12 and like it.
 If it doesn't work out, I can always try to sell it and upgrade...
  
 Cheers!


----------



## gdourado

dmax99 said:


> To me the up sampling does nothing but somehow decreases the volume and make the sound seem a bit further away.
> 
> However, E1 itself without using that feature will give you better clarity and soundstage than the e17 +e09k for sure! They will sound boring to you after you've heard the E1. Plus, when you have some extra cash, it's also worth the money to buy 6 genuine muses01 to swap with the stock op amps. They will give you even bigger soundstage and better bass (punchy not boomy)


 
  
 Thanks for your insight on the upsampling. 
 I know the E1 is better, I just don't know if it is 3 times the cost better... 
 And as I mentioned above, I already have a Fiio E12 and like it.
  
 Decisions, decisions...
  
 Cheers!


----------



## palmfish

gdourado said:


> I use the HP-P1 because at the office I don't have access to my computer, so I use my iPods as source.
> The HP-P1 as a great DAC to bypass the iPods internal units.
> Then I got a sweet deal on the E12 and decided to give it a try.
> I like the sound signature of the E12 better than the HP-P1 amp. More Bass and a bit warmer sound.
> ...


 
  
 Ah, I understand now... makes sense.
  
 I think the E09k is a good idea given your preferences and other gear.
  
 BTW, I love the sound straight out of my iPods. The built-in DACs are actually quite respectable.


----------



## DMax99

gdourado said:


> Thanks for your insight on the upsampling.
> I know the E1 is better, I just don't know if it is 3 times the cost better...
> And as I mentioned above, I already have a Fiio E12 and like it.
> 
> ...




H, 

The E1 is definitely the worth upgrade from any fiio (including the e12) in my opinion. 

I mean if you are worry about the price, you can always wait for a good second hand deal. I got my 2nd E1 second hand for about 250 AUD (yes! I have 2 E1 ;p) 

Otherwise, in my opinion the Aune T1 is also an upgrade from the fiio and only cost about 150 bucks new max


----------



## Swolern

Anyone have any comments on the sound quality difference on the E1 using the Toslink input instead of the USB to the dac? Im getting some sound interference when using my E1 to dac via USB and need to switch to Tolink from my PC to E1.


----------



## DMarasovic

swolern said:


> Anyone have any comments on the sound quality difference on the E1 using the Toslink input instead of the USB to the dac? Im getting some sound interference when using my E1 to dac via USB and need to switch to Tolink from my PC to E1.


 

 There is no sound quality difference between USB and Toslink input from Asus N73S laptop.


----------



## Swolern

dmarasovic said:


> There is no sound quality difference between USB and Toslink input from Asus N73S laptop.


 
 Thanks for reply. But with Toslink i loose the "Bit Perfect" option. Also the E1 shows only 48khz now, even with 192khz flac files are playing. Does the Toslink take away those options vs USB?


----------



## DMarasovic

swolern said:


> Thanks for reply. But with Toslink i loose the "Bit Perfect" option. Also the E1 shows only 48khz now, even with 192khz flac files are playing. Does the Toslink take away those options vs USB?


 

 In my case no, but try to find and set sw and hw settings at the source. If you write what is your source, maybe somebody will know the answer.


----------



## Swolern

My source is PC - Foobar - E1.


----------



## upside

This thread has been quiet for a bit so I thought I'd ask if anyone with an E1, and that also uses JRiver, has noticed an improvement using the newer driver that was posted back in March? It is version 7.0.11.10. ASUS just says it fixes several bugs with JRiver Media Center. I hadn't noticed any issues with the older 7.0.11.05. Anyone else?


----------



## DMarasovic

upside said:


> This thread has been quiet for a bit so I thought I'd ask if anyone with an E1, and that also uses JRiver, has noticed an improvement using the newer driver that was posted back in March? It is version 7.0.11.10. ASUS just says it fixes several bugs with JRiver Media Center. I hadn't noticed any issues with the older 7.0.11.05. Anyone else?


 

 The same as you.


----------



## Poleepkwa

Hello! My Essence One puts  out 3 quite loud thump through the headphones when I switch it one and it cycles through the inputs. Anyone else experiencing this? Is this normal`?


----------



## DMarasovic

swolern said:


> My source is PC - Foobar - E1.


 

 Look at my settings:

  

  


 During playback via Toslink bitrate LED follows playing file bitrate, but Bit Perfect LED is not engaged.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

poleepkwa said:


> Hello! My Essence One puts  out 3 quite loud thump through the headphones when I switch it one and it cycles through the inputs. Anyone else experiencing this? Is this normal`?


 
  
 It is not normal, sounds like there is still some DC voltage at the output even after startup.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

swolern said:


> My source is PC - Foobar - E1.


 
 You can use asio4all or wasapi foobar plugin with the toslink output, in that case you will have bitperfect mode. The bitperfect led however will not light up since it is not a true indicator of bitperfect mode, it lights up when you use the asus asio driver.


----------



## Poleepkwa

whit3rav3n said:


> It is not normal, sounds like there is still some DC voltage at the output even after startup.


 

 Thanks. I assumed as much and did not remember that it did that before. I think one of the caps might be bad. It is silent when you switch it on after a while, but when you switch it off and on again it makes the 3x thump, which seem to indicated that there is some DC voltage at the amp. Probably better to have it checked under warranty.


----------



## Gwarlek

Does XLR and RCA works at the same time on Essence One Plus (Muses)?

I connect monitors to XLR and subwoofer to RCA on my current preamp.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

gwarlek said:


> Does XLR and RCA works at the same time on Essence One Plus (Muses)?
> 
> I connect monitors to XLR and subwoofer to RCA on my current preamp.


 
 Yes


----------



## Renzero

Hi guys,
 I got a question.. it was probably answered before, but would appreciate if anyone can help.
  
 I was trying to upgrade my Asus essence one (non muses version) headphone buffer opamp.
 I bought 4x OPA627AP and got them fixed onto the dual to single DIP8 adapter.
 I inserted them into the headphone buffer, but it didnt work.. basically it's just dead silent.
  
 May I know what's the problem? or I should not use OPA627AP as the headphone in the first place.
  
 Thanks a lot in advance.


----------



## DMax99

Are they dual channel opamps? I not too sure if they are


----------



## DMarasovic

renzero said:


> Hi guys,
> I got a question.. it was probably answered before, but would appreciate if anyone can help.
> 
> I was trying to upgrade my Asus essence one (non muses version) headphone buffer opamp.
> ...


 

 If everything is soldered as should be, there is no barrier to use it.
 I use 2x2 OPA627AU as DAC filter after 4x2 LT 1028 in I/V with excellent sonic result.


----------



## tomscy2000

ASUS unveiled a Mk. II update to the Essence One at Computex this week; it now supports DSD:


----------



## Gandah

tomscy2000 said:


> ASUS unveiled a Mk. II update to the Essence One at Computex this week; it now supports DSD:


 
 "WHY" is the perfect word that comes to mind.....


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> "WHY" is the perfect word that comes to mind.....


 
 why not?


----------



## tomscy2000

Well, everyone supports DSD these days, so they're just keeping pace.


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> why not?


 

 DSD isn't time or money worthy, it's more gimmicky then anything..... The only "TRUE" DSD recording are done with one take, DSD recording can not be mixed using a studio mixer, hence most DSD media are PCM mixed than wrapped in a DSD format container


----------



## endeeinn

renzero said:


> Hi guys,
> I got a question.. it was probably answered before, but would appreciate if anyone can help.
> 
> I was trying to upgrade my Asus essence one (non muses version) headphone buffer opamp.
> ...


 
 Are you sure the DIP8 adapter is fully seated in the socket?  As I recall the socket is flanked by capacitors on both sides that would prevent an adapter from being fully seated.  In those situations you need to use another DIP8 socket such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/15x-8pin-IC-DIP-Sockets-/330810204026?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d05d31f7a to provide "lift" for your dual adapter to seat properly.


----------



## ben_r_

So how much are they trying to get for that E1-2? Anyone seen any pricing yet?


----------



## gothi

Hello,
 I am testing a configuration Synology ds213air -> USB 3.0 -> Asus Essence One DAC-> Atoll IN 200 power amp mode,  and I use the tablet with DS audio android as “a remote control” to play music files. I like sound from this set-up. However I experience some problems.  When I choose a next file with a changed sampling resolution, the loudspeakers generate unpleasant noise.  Restarting the application DS audio helps with an efficiency of about 70%. I would appreciate your help. The most recent DAC firmware is 1.27? gothi


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> DSD isn't time or money worthy, it's more gimmicky then anything..... The only "TRUE" DSD recording are done with one take, DSD recording can not be mixed using a studio mixer, hence most DSD media are PCM mixed than wrapped in a DSD format container


 
 Oh, I agree DSD is a bit of a joke. But if the company can squeeze it in to a revamped model, then they might as well


----------



## ben_r_

dclaz said:


> Oh, I agree DSD is a bit of a joke. But if the company can squeeze it in to a revamped model, then they might as well


 

 Yea, its kinda like a lot of people look at 3D in TVs these days. Its certainly not something that should be charged more for, nor am I willing to pay more for it, but it should be there since its a feature/offering in the industry.


----------



## Gandah

ben_r_ said:


> Yea, its kinda like a lot of people look at 3D in TVs these days. Its certainly not something that should be charged more for, nor am I willing to pay more for it, but it should be there since its a feature/offering in the industry.


 
 How about better quality components first, like chl balanced volume pots.....


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> How about better quality components first, like chl balanced volume pots.....


 
 I assume they would be improved in this model. The MUSES edition had fixed ones no?


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> I assume they would be improved in this model. The MUSES edition had fixed ones no?


 

 It's the only reason why I no longer own the E1 muses anymore, so I would hope it was fixed....


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Heya fellas...Anyone knows any op amps that would turn down the brightness on my AKG Q701's? Even trough the headphones are good they still get me sometimes with it...


----------



## ben_r_

gandah said:


> How about better quality components first, like chl balanced volume pots.....


 

 Stuff like that I would expect to be a given. If they didnt fix those issues theyd be written off entirely. But not only do they have to fix those things, they also need to "apologize" for this mishaps by adding more features to the new model while keeping the pricing the same or lower.


----------



## dclaz

gandah said:


> It's the only reason why I no longer own the E1 muses anymore, so I would hope it was fixed....


 
 Ahh rightio


----------



## Gandah

dclaz said:


> Ahh rightio


 
_hehe_.... I can honestly say I would most likely still have the E1 if it wasn't for the volume pots, yes the Calyx DAC is much better in all aspects to the E1 muses, but I just didn't want to take a step back in SQ, which I've said many times before, that the E1 muses SQ alone you would have to pay 2K+ for better


----------



## DMax99

Debating whether or not to sell my 2nd back up stock e1. I'm only using it as a DAC for my speaker system.. Decision decision...


----------



## vagii

It's summer already, LME49990s AD797BRZs are toooo hot in E1. So I decided to start rolling some opamps again. LPF: ADA4627-1brz, I/V: Muses8920D, Buffer: ADA4637-1brz (600Ohm headphone, seems stable for me), 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, wow, i just can not stop listening.


----------



## brugis

1. Is it the only difference between standart and muses edition is 6 muses opamps?
 2. Are standart E1 opamps is swapable?


----------



## leeperry

brugis said:


> difference between standart and muses edition


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition/reviews/8824
  


> Differences between the regular ONE and the Muses edtion go as follow: *1)* opamps in positions 1 and 2 have been replaced by the market leading Muses01 opamp from NJR: http://semicon.njr.co.jp/eng/MUSES/MUSES01.html
> *2)* the PCB has been revised  in order to provide a jumper to set the headamp gain in either LOW or HIGH position, as the regular ONE came with its headamp set to HIGH and this was a bit of a potential issue with low impedance/high sensitivity headphones for people who don't listen at loud volume.
> *3)* the regular and Muses edition are using different pots(B10K>A10K) on the headamp: http://www.taiwanalpha.com.tw/english/p_e_70-1.htm


----------



## midnightfox

Does anyone know if connecting the Essence One to a powered USB hub will have any impact on the quality of sound?


----------



## DMax99

midnightfox said:


> Does anyone know if connecting the Essence One to a powered USB hub will have any impact on the quality of sound?




I couldn't really hear any difference


----------



## leeperry

The E1 isn't making any use of the USB power(you can even break the +5V pin of your USB cable for that matter) and its USB drivers run in async mode so good luck hearing any difference


----------



## Spenty

Is the Essence One a worthy upgrade over an STX soundcard?
  
 What's the output impedance on the One's headphone output?


----------



## DMax99

I have not heard a stx before but I like the e1 so kick that I used to have 2 of them. It was very sad for me to have sold my backup unit last week ;/


----------



## manicmanos

spenty said:


> Is the Essence One a worthy upgrade over an STX soundcard?
> 
> What's the output impedance on the One's headphone output?


 
 I have the STX and wondered about the same thing.
 Searched a lot of reviews, and finally bought the One.
  
 There is no going back to the STX. The STX is so bright, it ends up fatiguing.
 The One is more analytical and more natural, I really enjoy the music.


----------



## dannyhc

Is anyone having problems playing back the latest MQN version 4 and 5 media player suites?
  
 When using his latest creations which uses 256 period sizes it plays with a metallic sound and a lot of background noise, irrespective of if you use SSE, AVX or AVX2 instruction sets.
  
 I am running the latest Windows 8.1 Professional with the 1st Driver release of 8.1.1.1, I was thinking this might not be a problem on Windows 7 or Windows 8 versions?
  
 Would appreciate if anyone here who is a fan of MQN can shed some light on this issue?
  
 Regards,

 Dan


----------



## ben_r_

spenty said:


> Is the Essence One a worthy upgrade over an STX soundcard?
> 
> What's the output impedance on the One's headphone output?


 

 I have the ST and bought the E1 to compare. The E1 one is better as an amp, but as a DAC I couldnt tell much difference. I ended up selling the E1 and getting an UberFrost and separate amps for specific headphones.


----------



## mowglycdb

manicmanos said:


> I have the STX and wondered about the same thing.
> Searched a lot of reviews, and finally bought the One.
> 
> There is no going back to the STX. The STX is so bright, it ends up fatiguing.
> The One is more analytical and more natural, I really enjoy the music.


 
  
 You mean more detailed and natural?, Cause I thought analytical and natural can be oposites.


----------



## manicmanos

It sounds like there is more space between each instrument. 
 Also it drives great high impedance headphones, like the AKG K601 I have, and couldn't bear with the STX.
 keep in mind though, that the sound is kinda bassy, and it tends to create a problem with headphones that already have a strong bass.


----------



## mowglycdb

I guess it wouldn't mix well with a Audeze headphone. I already tried the LCD-2 with the STX and it didn't sound okay at all. With low gain you reach half the volume meter and it doesn't get any louder from there and starts to clip.  with medium and high gain there's no more clip, but the distorsion is unbearable.


----------



## RamGuy

I'm a bit confused, I have been running my Asus Xonar Essence One using SPDIF from my Creative Titanum HD in order to get the CMSS:3D effects working while gaming, and I have always found the gain to feel quite weak / low..
  
 So I got myself a Creative ZxR with its own built-in headphone amp to compare and they seem to feature much improved gain, but overall a bit lower audio quality. Might it be that the Asus Xonar Essence One is not running in High-Gain mode making it feel weak running my Sennheiser HD 650? There seems to be no way to verify or change the gain on the actual unit itself, I guess you might have some software options running the Xonar Essence One using USB, but like I said I'm running it through SPDIF in order to get the DSP from my Creative Titanium HD...
  
  
 I'm not going to keep the Creative ZxR as I don't really like the sound signature, and the DSP feels very week compared to the Titanium HD, especially for gaming. CMSS:3D seems to do wonders compared to their new SBX Studio Pro which seems like a rebranded THX ThruStudio which I always have on my Titanium HD...
  
 Going for Essence STX II is not an option either as I can't stand Dolby Headphones for gaming, that's why I got the Essence One a few months back in order to get the benefit of Creative's CMSS:3D DPS for gaming, while having the audio quality and amp from Essence One.. But like I said, the gain seems very thin..
  
  
 Another things I'm really struggling with is the connection from my Titanium HD to the Essence One... Very often audio is simply not played back at all.. Especially notification sounds from Windows login, Skype notifications etc.. Is either not played at all, or I will hear the notification halfway through making it all sound fuzzy.. I can't seem to figure out what might be causing this, its not like the audio has any problems while playing back movies, games, during actual Skype voice chatting etc... But its almost like these notification sounds get lost while the computer is establishing communication with the DAC which is quite awkward and a little bit annoying.


----------



## mowglycdb

If you're conecting a SPDIF you have to check the strength of the signal, some DAC's output from 0.5V,  1V ,  2V,    2,5V , 5V.  Check the maximum rated input for the essence one. Usually the DAC/AMP are made to work with a specific level of input and apply Gain accordingly. so if you're way under the maximum rated input you'll get low volume.
  
 A friend had this problem with NFB-6 because he was using a DAC that has 1V output, so he had to mod the NFB-6 so it would apply a higher gain.


----------



## Hopup

ramguy said:


> I'm a bit confused, I have been running my Asus Xonar Essence One using SPDIF from my Creative Titanum HD in order to get the CMSS:3D effects working while gaming, and I have always found the gain to feel quite weak / low..
> 
> So I got myself a Creative ZxR with its own built-in headphone amp to compare and they seem to feature much improved gain, but overall a bit lower audio quality. Might it be that the Asus Xonar Essence One is not running in High-Gain mode making it feel weak running my Sennheiser HD 650? There seems to be no way to verify or change the gain on the actual unit itself, I guess you might have some software options running the Xonar Essence One using USB, but like I said I'm running it through SPDIF in order to get the DSP from my Creative Titanium HD...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Seems pretty bad idea to drive your essence one through titanium HD. I could atleast picture many possible problems when doing that.


----------



## Hopup

I just bought E1 muses edition. I'm interested to change the headphone buffer opamps. Has anyone put muses01 opamps in there too? Is it even wise to change buffer opamps in muses edition? Also I would like to know if any of you have tried burson opamps on E1?


----------



## brugis

Sorry, but headphone amp section have 2 opamps?


----------



## Hopup

brugis said:


> Sorry, but headphone amp section have 2 opamps?


 

 Yes there is two opamps in headphone buffer section. Anyone has put muses01 there too?


----------



## brugis

Planning to buy Muses01 2pcs. for headphone section, when my Mad Dogs come in.


----------



## Hopup

I wonder why Asus didn't put muses01 opamps headphone buffer section too :S. It would not be that expensive to add two more..


----------



## Mach3

hopup said:


> I just bought E1 muses edition. I'm interested to change the headphone buffer opamps. Has anyone put muses01 opamps in there too? Is it even wise to change buffer opamps in muses edition? Also I would like to know if any of you have tried burson opamps on E1?


 

  
 I have, in fact I've installed 11 MUSES01 on mine (Costed $45 each AUD from Akizukidenshi (Japan). It work wonders for HD800 owners. Chip doesn't run hot at all. just slight warm to touch. Waiting for the LME47910HA Dual to compare the 2.
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 Fake one from china is on the left


----------



## Hopup

Has anyone used these opamps? http://www.bursonaudio.com/creations/discrete-opamp/


----------



## Hopup

mach3 said:


> I have, in fact I've installed 11 MUSES01 on mine (Costed $45 each AUD from Akizukidenshi (Japan). It work wonders for HD800 owners. Chip doesn't run hot at all. just slight warm to touch. Waiting for the LME47910HA Dual to compare the 2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks for your info. I will order couple of muses01 opamps for the phone section soon.


----------



## turokrocks

hopup said:


> Thanks for your info. I will order couple of muses01 opamps for the phone section soon.


 
 From where are you gonna order them?
  
 There are lots ant lots of fake ones out there, you have to be careful!


----------



## Hopup

turokrocks said:


> From where are you gonna order them?
> 
> There are lots ant lots of fake ones out there, you have to be careful!


 

 I have not looked which is the best place to order. Mach3 posted that he ordered them in store called akizukidenshi. It seems pretty reliable.
  
 http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gI-03416/


----------



## Mach3

hopup said:


> Has anyone used these opamps? http://www.bursonaudio.com/creations/discrete-opamp/


 
  
 Without proper testing with an oscilloscope for oscillation. It's ill advised to use other opamp that's not listed in the opamp rolling guide.
 Oscillation causes the opamp to overheat and shorten the life of your equipment. Stick to the guide below
  

  
  


hopup said:


> I have not looked which is the best place to order. Mach3 posted that he ordered them in store called akizukidenshi. It seems pretty reliable.
> 
> http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gI-03416/


 
 They are reliable as I confirmed with NJR/Nichicon (The company that makes the opamps) before I went ahead and bought the opamps.


----------



## turokrocks

mach3 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How did you order (I could not make heads or tails!) from there site?


----------



## Hopup

Has anyone installed the Asus DSD expansion kit on E1? I looked it at their site and saw that in the kit is included 2pcs of muses02 instead of muses01 opamps. I wonder where they are meant to be installed headphone or LPF section and why did asus choose them over muses01 in dsd kit? That leads me thinking how they would sound if I would place them in my muses editions headphone section?
  
 http://www.asus.com/fi/Essence_HiFi_Audio/Essence_One_DSD_Upgrade_Kit/


----------



## Mach3

turokrocks said:


> How did you order (I could not make heads or tails!) from there site?



I got a japanese friend to translate and help me register an account.


----------



## Mach3

hopup said:


> Has anyone installed the Asus DSD expansion kit on E1? I looked it at their site and saw that in the kit is included 2pcs of muses02 instead of muses01 opamps. I wonder where they are meant to be installed headphone or LPF section and why did asus choose them over muses01 in dsd kit? That leads me thinking how they would sound if I would place them in my muses editions headphone section?
> 
> http://www.asus.com/fi/Essence_HiFi_Audio/Essence_One_DSD_Upgrade_Kit/


 
  
 IMO it not very good value at $119.99 Euro. It only add DSD64 not DSD128 (Not sure why Asus didn't implement this in the first place). Sure you get 2 x MUSES02, they're like $50-60 Euro for the pair. Almost $60-70 for EEPROM chip is highway robbery. Not to mention the PCM1795 is capable of DSD128 just not supported by TI
  
 http://e2e.ti.com/support/data_converters/audio_converters/f/64/t/278973.aspx <- Read this link
  
 I'm just worried Asus will release Essence One DSD Upgrade Kit MKII a year later with the statement "now support DSD128" LOL


----------



## dmbr

What does DSD do, exactly? All it says on the Asus page is that it provides a ridiculously high sampling rate...but anything above 44.1khz is overkill and should provide no improvement at all to sound quality...


----------



## Mach3

dmbr said:


> What does DSD do, exactly? All it says on the Asus page is that it provides a ridiculously high sampling rate...but anything above 44.1khz is overkill and should provide no improvement at all to sound quality...


 
 It's the digital audio format developed by Sony and Philip (Because audio purist complained vinyl's offers better sound quality than CD). It was first used in SACD (Super Audio CD) 1999. To give you an idea how overkill we're talking about. Basic single data rate DSD (Aka DSD64) is 64x the upsample rate of the standard redbook/Audio CD @44.1khz. DSD128 is 128x, DSD256 256x and DSD512 512x, you get the picture.
  
 I had a looked around the net and have not seen any native recoding of DSD512 (correct me if I'm wrong), just DSD256 upsampled to DSD512. Weather or not DSD512 is 512x better than audio cd is very trivial. One thing is for sure. I'm not jumping onto the DSD band wagon anytime soon. Why, you ask? How about 6min of DSD512 takes up 2GB of storage space.
  
Kind of Blue recorded from vinyl at 5.6 mhz DSD, then stripped to the below sample rates.
16/44 - 486 MB
24/96 - 1588 MB
24/192 - 3176 MB
2.8 DSD - 1946 MB (DSD64)
5.6 DSD - 3892 MB (DSD128)
11.2 DSD - 7784MB (DSD256)
 22.4 DSD - 15568MB (DSD512)
  
 Argument against DSD (Taken from Wiki)
 In 2001, Stanley Lip****z and John Vanderkooy from the University of Waterloo stated that one-bit converters (as employed by DSD) are unsuitable for high-end applications due to their high distortion
  
 http://sjeng.org/ftp/SACD.pdf < Read the full paper here. I've read it twice and I'm still don't understand fully. I'll leave it to the expert and take their words to stick with PCM.


----------



## Hopup

About the Essence MK2. Is it basically the same as E1 but with dsd in it? The pcb layout must be little different but is there any major hardware changes?


----------



## Mach3

hopup said:


> About the Essence MK2. Is it basically the same as E1 but with dsd in it? The pcb layout must be little different but is there any major hardware changes?


 
 It's basically the original MUSES Edition without the MUSES01 and with DSD64 EEPROM. Oh I forgot a love badge that say MKII
  
 MKII is Non MKII with DSD64 and gain jumpers, volume pots are A10K like the original MUSES fixing the volume imbalance issue with the headphone.
  
 ASUS Essence One - B10K Volume Pot (Volume imbalance issue), No gain jumper, No MUSES01, No DSD64
 ASUS Essence One MUSES Edition - A10K Volume Pot (Fixed Volume imbalance issue), Gain jumper, 6x MUSES01, No DSD64
 ASUS Essence One MKII - A10K Volume Pot, Gain jumper, No MUSES01, DSD64 EEPROM
 ASUS Essence One MUSES Edition MKII - A10K, Gain jumper, 6x MUSES01, DSD64 EEPROM


----------



## Hopup

mach3 said:


> It's basically the original MUSES Edition without the MUSES01 and with DSD64 EEPROM. Oh I forgot a love badge that say MKII
> 
> MKII is Non MKII with DSD64 and gain jumpers, volume pots are A10K like the original MUSES fixing the volume imbalance issue with the headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. I wonder if it would  be possible to use some other EEPROM in E1. But I guess you would have to make new drivers or something to make it work.


----------



## Hopup

Does the sound of the E1 Muses change much after break in? My purchase was delivered to me today and so far it sounds very nice with hd800.


----------



## Mach3

I think you should just stop thinking about it and enjoy the music 
  
 Where did you place the MUSES? MUSES01 or MUSES02?


----------



## Hopup

mach3 said:


> I think you should just stop thinking about it and enjoy the music
> 
> Where did you place the MUSES? MUSES01 or MUSES02?


 

 I bought E1 muses edition. I will order couple muses and burson opamps (should be perfectly safe) to test how it affects sound when I place them in headphone section.


----------



## Mach3

hopup said:


> I bought E1 muses edition. I will order couple muses and burson opamps (should be perfectly safe) to test how it affects sound when I place them in headphone section.


 
  
 I'll be very surprised if the Burson opamps doesn't sound sterile and flat. Let us all know the results when you compare the two. I have faith in Asus sound engineer and hope they did their homework by suggesting the MUSES01.


----------



## Hopup

mach3 said:


> I'll be very surprised if the Burson opamps doesn't sound sterile and flat. Let us all know the results when you compare the two. I have faith in Asus sound engineer and hope they did their homework by suggesting the MUSES01.


 
  
 Actually I saw picture in bursons site with somebody who had replaced all of his opamps with bursons opamps. So atleast he liked them, but I quess only way to find out if they are good is to test them.


----------



## Wage

asusxonar said:


> Only the MUSES edition should have the pot with the gain jumpers. If you get a MUSES Edition unit that does not, then it needs to be sent to ASUS for a swap. The pot in the MUSES edition has a different scale to suit use of the gain jumpers. If you buy a standard it will come with the same pots they always have. The pot was never changed for imbalance, it was a change made to accommodate the gain jumpers in the MUSES Edition units only.


 

 Not sure if you're still active, but I sent you a PM since I found out my E1 MUSES is missing the gain jumper and has the wrong pots (B10 instead of A10)


----------



## turokrocks

wage said:


> Not sure if you're still active, but I sent you a PM since I found out my E1 MUSES is missing the gain jumper and has the wrong pots (B10 instead of A10)


 
  
  
 I kept mine (same like the one you have) after trying 2 Muses E1 (which were sent to me to replace the one I had without the gain jumper) I noticed a change in clarity and details in Music.
 the one I had, was more musical and enjoyable to listen to, it was almost .
  
 The other 2 replacements sounded less accurate and missing the prat I was getting, so I ended keeping it, FYI.
  
  
 Just enjoy listing...


----------



## Mach3

turokrocks said:


> I kept mine (same like the one you have) after trying 2 Muses E1 (which were sent to me to replace the one I had without the gain jumper) I noticed a change in clarity and details in Music.
> the one I had, was more musical and enjoyable to listen to, it was almost .
> 
> The other 2 replacements sounded less accurate and missing the prat I was getting, so I ended keeping it, FYI.
> ...




If what you say is true. Does that mean, the cheapest option to get good sound would be. Stock E1 plus 6x Muses01?


----------



## Hopup

turokrocks said:


> I kept mine (same like the one you have) after trying 2 Muses E1 (which were sent to me to replace the one I had without the gain jumper) I noticed a change in clarity and details in Music.
> the one I had, was more musical and enjoyable to listen to, it was almost .
> 
> The other 2 replacements sounded less accurate and missing the prat I was getting, so I ended keeping it, FYI.
> ...


 

 Did your non-jumper version of muses have more break in time when you compared it to the other muses versions? I got my muses edition in last week and the sound is now substantially smoother and not so bright than when I got it.


----------



## turokrocks

mach3 said:


> If what you say is true. Does that mean, the cheapest option to get good sound would be. Stock E1 plus 6x Muses01?


 
  
  
 Yes, and better get Muses for the Headphones buffer also=8X Muses01.


----------



## turokrocks

hopup said:


> Did your non-jumper version of muses have more break in time when you compared it to the other muses versions? I got my muses edition in last week and the sound is now substantially smoother and not so bright than when I got it.


 
  
  
 No, I made sure that the new replaced E1s got enough time to break in / Burn (don't remember exactly).
  
 It felt that they were missing something that I was enjoying in the original.
  
 I do remember that another member shared me the finding.


----------



## upside

turokrocks said:


> No, I made sure that the new replaced E1s got enough time to break in / Burn (don't remember exactly).
> 
> It felt that they were missing something that I was enjoying in the original.
> 
> I do remember that another member shared me the finding.


 

 That was me.
  
 I had the same experience as Turokrocks.
  
 The replacement E1 Muses I was sent with the jumper and the better volume control did not sound as good as the Muses I had without. The updated version did not sound as open and extended in the top end and sounded more closed in and flat.


----------



## Hopup

upside said:


> That was me.
> 
> I had the same experience as Turokrocks.
> 
> The replacement E1 Muses I was sent with the jumper and the better volume control did not sound as good as the Muses I had without. The updated version did not sound as open and extended in the top end and sounded more closed in and flat.


 

 That's interesting. What phones you use/used with E1?


----------



## upside

hopup said:


> That's interesting. What phones you use/used with E1?


 

 I use HD 800s, T1s, K 701, K 702 Annies, Q 701s, HD 650s, PSB M4U2, NAD HP 50s and a number more.
  
 I also have a regular E1 as well as a Plus version that I compared to both versions of the Muses I have with and without the jumper. All have a family sound except for the Muses with the jumper and A10. Strange I know but something is different beyond just the jumper and volume control.


----------



## Mach3

turokrocks said:


> Yes, and better get Muses for the Headphones buffer also=8X Muses01.


 
 I think someone else in this thread beside you and upside made this discovery too. Thanks for the feedback
  
 I'm all Muses01 out with 11X 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm currently using the XLR output with my B22 4 channel balance amp. The sound is phenomenal with my HD800.


----------



## Hopup

upside said:


> I use HD 800s, T1s, K 701, K 702 Annies, Q 701s, HD 650s, PSB M4U2, NAD HP 50s and a number more.
> 
> I also have a regular E1 as well as a Plus version that I compared to both versions of the Muses I have with and without the jumper. All have a family sound except for the Muses with the jumper and A10. Strange I know but something is different beyond just the jumper and volume control.


 

 Thanks for the info. I read the older post about jumper and many people besides you apparently experienced same thing I see. I just bought E1 muses edition with jumper and I dont know if I should just return it and just buy Plus edition and buy muses opamps separately...   The problem is I really like the sound of my E1 Muses. Its open and very transparent with hd800 but I'm wondering if I'm still missing something... 
  
 I read that someone in here once said that jumper version is more warm and jumperless version more bright. He said that jumper version is better with hd800 and jumperless with 650. Did you experience anything like that?


----------



## upside

hopup said:


> Thanks for the info. I read the older post about jumper and many people besides you apparently experienced same thing I see. I just bought E1 muses edition with jumper and I dont know if I should just return it and just buy Plus edition and buy muses opamps separately...   The problem is I really like the sound of my E1 Muses. Its open and very transparent with hd800 but I'm wondering if I'm still missing something...
> 
> I read that someone in here once said that jumper version is more warm and jumperless version more bright. He said that jumper version is better with hd800 and jumperless with 650. Did you experience anything like that?


 

 No, I have not found that to be the case. My Muses with the jumper clearly sounds more closed in than any of the other E1s I have. In fact my Muses with the jumper is so thick sounding with HD 650s that I just wouldn't recommend that combo at all.
  
 The HD 800 with the Muses is very nice but I still find that I return to the HD 800s with my HDVD 800. YMMV. I also prefer the T1s with the Muses to the HD 800s.
  
 What serial number is your Muses? The E1 samples I have are A, B and C series. I'm not sure where ASUS is now with their serial numbers. Perhaps they made a running change?
  
 If you like the sound of your Muses with your phones then enjoy. I wouldn't worry about what might be. If it's good, it's good.


----------



## Hopup

upside said:


> No, I have not found that to be the case. My Muses with the jumper clearly sounds more closed in than any of the other E1s I have. In fact my Muses with the jumper is so thick sounding with HD 650s that I just wouldn't recommend that combo at all.
> 
> The HD 800 with the Muses is very nice but I still find that I return to the HD 800s with my HDVD 800. YMMV. I also prefer the T1s with the Muses to the HD 800s.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 My Muses is apparently B series. I use it with HD800 and it really sounds pretty good but I really wonder if I'm missing something when there are so many people saying this. I think I will return my Muses and I will test standard/plus edition.


----------



## upside

hopup said:


> My Muses is apparently B series. I use it with HD800 and it really sounds pretty good but I really wonder if I'm missing something when there are so many people saying this. I think I will return my Muses and I will test standard/plus edition.


 

 Strange that your B series Muses has the jumper and A10 volume control. My B series Muses does not have the update but my C series does and that is the Muses that sounds different from the others. The B series Muses is the version I enjoy the most.
  
 As I said, there must have been a running change from ASUS.
  
 Is there any way to hang on to your Muses and compare with the standard/plus version? Of the three, the Muses is the best with the Plus being close behind.


----------



## turokrocks

Guys, I really need to order some Muses01 op-amps from a reliable source, and one that I can read (English language), any help is appreciated.
  
 I looked at ebay, and I don't trust any!
  
 And also the "Essence One DSD Upgrade Kit", is it up for sale? where?!!


----------



## Hopup

turokrocks said:


> Guys, I really need to order some Muses01 op-amps from a reliable source, and one that I can read (English language), any help is appreciated.
> 
> I looked at ebay, and I don't trust any!
> 
> And also the "Essence One DSD Upgrade Kit", is it up for sale? where?!!





You can buy dsd kit from european ebay.


----------



## Hopup

upside said:


> Strange that your B series Muses has the jumper and A10 volume control. My B series Muses does not have the update but my C series does and that is the Muses that sounds different from the others. The B series Muses is the version I enjoy the most.
> 
> As I said, there must have been a running change from ASUS.
> 
> Is there any way to hang on to your Muses and compare with the standard/plus version? Of the three, the Muses is the best with the Plus being close behind.




Interesting. I think I will try to get my hands on another E1 and compare them like you said to me.


----------



## Mach3

turokrocks said:


> Guys, I really need to order some Muses01 op-amps from a reliable source, and one that I can read (English language), any help is appreciated.
> 
> I looked at ebay, and I don't trust any!
> 
> And also the "Essence One DSD Upgrade Kit", is it up for sale? where?!!


 
  
 How many are you planning on buying and where you planning on placing them? (Headphone buffer)


----------



## Hopup

Mach3 did you change all the capacitors in your E1 or was it someone else? Anyway if you indeed changed them did it affect the sound much? If I decide to keep my Muses I will probably do some mods to my E1 just because its fun  I'm also thinking about replacing the A10k pot with better quality pot.


----------



## Mach3

turokrocks said:


> Guys, I really need to order some Muses01 op-amps from a reliable source, and one that I can read (English language), any help is appreciated.
> 
> I looked at ebay, and I don't trust any!
> 
> And also the "Essence One DSD Upgrade Kit", is it up for sale? where?!!


 
  
 DSD Kit upgrade link (Part number *90YB00CB-M0UC1**0)*
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUSTOR-Soundkarte-ASUS-Xonar-ESSENCE-ONE-DSD-Upgrade-Kit-Sched-90YB00CB-M0UC10-/390933233931?pt=Schede_audio_per_PC_e_Server&hash=item5b056fc10b


 As for english site for genuine MUSES01 digikey or mouser


----------



## Mach3

turokrocks said:


> Guys, I really need to order some Muses01 op-amps from a reliable source, and one that I can read (English language), any help is appreciated.
> 
> I looked at ebay, and I don't trust any!
> 
> And also the "Essence One DSD Upgrade Kit", is it up for sale? where?!!


 
  
 How many are you planning on buying and where you planning on placing them? (Headphone buffer)


----------



## turokrocks

mach3 said:


> How many are you planning on buying and where you planning on placing them? (Headphone buffer)


 
 Yes, 2.
  
 Do you think I should change also the others?
  
 Will that make a difference? I mean a big difference...


----------



## Mach3

hopup said:


> Mach3 did you change all the capacitors in your E1 or was it someone else? Anyway if you indeed changed them did it affect the sound much? If I decide to keep my Muses I will probably do some mods to my E1 just because its fun  I'm also thinking about replacing the A10k pot with better quality pot.


 
  
 Yeah I changed all the caps to higher quality cap with better tolerance. Check page 163, upgrade heatsink thermalpad, upgrade power supply caps to Panasonic FR 10000 hours low ESR. check 169 for full caps upgrade. If you use all the parts I suggest. Everything will work well and fit perfectly.


----------



## Mach3

turokrocks said:


> Yes, 2.
> 
> Do you think I should change also the others?
> 
> Will that make a difference? I mean a big difference...


 
 Replacing the stock with the MUSES01, I've notice it more forgiving with brighter headphones. Soundstage and clarity still there but more dynamic and lively. Unit doesn't heat up as much as my stock opamp either, not that it was hot to begin with.


----------



## Mach3

Just like to mention I've got some request for group buy of the MUSES01. PM if you're interested. Actual purchase won't be until 4 week time from now. I've got at 3 people that are keen to buy 6x each. It's about $42 USD each
  
 Not sure if this is allowed to be posted here. So I hope I'm not breaking any rules. Just wanna help  some head fi member get the good stuff for their Essence One.


----------



## combat fighter

Hi there,
  
 I currently have a Asus Essence STXII sound card upgraded with 3x (genuine) MUSES01. Have to say it does sound really good but I am wondering how much better would the Asus Essence One Muses edition be compared to my STXII with muses01?
  
 I was thinking if I ever did go for Asus Essence One Muses edition I can put my Muses01 in the Essence one plus that would mean I only need 2 more to max it out. 
  
 I'd love to know!


----------



## Hopup

combat fighter said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I currently have a Asus Essence STXII sound card upgraded with 3x (genuine) MUSES01. Have to say it does sound really good but I am wondering how much better would the Asus Essence One Muses edition be compared to my STXII with muses01?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 I'm pretty sure it would sound better and different. You dont need to max out your muses if you are not using rca and balanced outputs.


----------



## Audiophial

Hi guys, I'm a happy (currently) owner of the XE1 but just got to ask the community a question.
  
 Recently I've been trying op-amp combinations but I don't have an oscilloscope and I was just wondering whether this op-amp combination is safe! Op amps LPF & I/V get quite warm to touch but XLR out is only very slightly warm. All of these chips are unity-gain stable.
  
 I/V: Muses8920 x4
 LPF: Muses8920 x2
 XLR output: Muses8820 x2
  
 With this combination I feel the XLR out is smooth but far more detailed than stock configuration.
  
 If someone has used this combination or know whether it's safe of not please let me know!!
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Gandah

audiophial said:


> Hi guys, I'm a happy (currently) owner of the XE1 but just got to ask the community a question.
> 
> Recently I've been trying op-amp combinations but I don't have an oscilloscope and I was just wondering whether this op-amp combination is safe! Op amps LPF & I/V get quite warm to touch but XLR out is only very slightly warm. All of these chips are unity-gain stable.
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome too Head-fi Audiophial,
  
 Should be fine, they do get hot which isn't a problem. The new Muses8920 looks quite interesting, and going by your description they must sound similar too muses01 but probably better.


----------



## Audiophial

Hi Gandah and thanks for the welcome!,
  
 Yeah the MUSES8920 in I/V and LPF sound very much like what is described of the MUSES01 edition, however it is a little sibilant (just the tiniest bit), swapping the LM4562's with MUSES8820's (Basically binned MUSES02's) trade a little bit of that massive Sound-stage (only width, depth seems the same) for less splashyness in the highs which is nice for bright HP's.
  
 I also tried with MUSES8920 at buffer and MUSES8820 at LPF but prefer the overall tighter and better defined bass with the 8920 at LPF. I'd say this combination is a warmer tilt than the MUSES edition without losing detail so I feel music is quite rich and immersive.
  
 The reason why I was asking whether it was safe is because the 8820 is a bipolar chip with a much lower slew rate than the 8920, that won't be a problem if the slower chip is in the place of buffer right? The 8820 should still have more than enough to slew 192khz at 2vrms if my understanding of slew rate is correct... Since it's a much slower opa than the LM4562 hopefully I'm safe as far as stability in that socket is concerned right?  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Gandah

audiophial said:


> Hi Gandah and thanks for the welcome!,
> 
> Yeah the MUSES8920 in I/V and LPF sound very much like what is described of the MUSES01 edition, however it is a little sibilant (just the tiniest bit), swapping the LM4562's with MUSES8820's (Basically binned MUSES02's) trade a little bit of that massive Sound-stage (only width, depth seems the same) for less splashyness in the highs which is nice for bright HP's.
> 
> ...


 
 Should be fine, but I never bothered replacing the XLR op's because its not where most of the change comes from, its mainly I/V and LPF where the change happens.
  
 Sibilant, what phones are you using?


----------



## Audiophial

Currently using HD800's so it emphasises the SSS noise that comes with some combinations with this amp/dac. Using the Muses8820 in this position seems to make the treble both softer and more detailed as well.


----------



## Gandah

audiophial said:


> Currently using HD800's so it emphasises the SSS noise that comes with some combinations with this amp/dac. Using the Muses8820 in this position seems to make the treble both softer and more detailed as well.


 
 The HD800 is one of the hardest headphones to driver properly, very source and amp picky, so if your only getting a tiny bit of sibilant than your doing quite well


----------



## maarek99

gandah said:


> The HD800 is one of the hardest headphones to driver properly, very source and amp picky, so if your only getting a tiny bit of sibilant than your doing quite well


 
  
 I have to say...I have the HD800, Asus Essence ONE muses edition, and a Lake People G100 headphone amp and it is glorious.
  
 One of the really surprising facets as that almost all sibilance is completely gone. I don't know how that is possible but this combo sounds really nice.


----------



## gkl

Hey guys. I have my Essence One (original) since March 2012 and relatively recently I've started noticing that it has started buzzing / humming constantly. I can't pinpoint the time when that happened and unfortunately it's quite noticeable. It happens irrespective whether anything is playing or not - the unit just has to be powered on. Though, no issues with the sound itself.
 Do you know what could be the cause and how could it be fixed? It seems that the noise comes from the place where electrical cable is plugged in, i.e., power supply.


----------



## DMarasovic

gkl said:


> Hey guys. I have my Essence One (original) since March 2012 and relatively recently I've started noticing that it has started buzzing / humming constantly. I can't pinpoint the time when that happened and unfortunately it's quite noticeable. It happens irrespective whether anything is playing or not - the unit just has to be powered on. Though, no issues with the sound itself.
> Do you know what could be the cause and how could it be fixed? It seems that the noise comes from the place where electrical cable is plugged in, i.e., power supply.


 

 It could be interference from outer electro-magnetic field. Try to move electrical products that are near (bluetooth and wireless units and mobile phone etc.), as well as E-One itself  and observe changes. Open E-One, push opamps to sit well in sockets, check internal connections. Try to replace power supply cable. If analog outputs are connected to amp or similar, the problem could be there (ground loop ?).


----------



## Hopup

I have used my muses almost every day I got it with hd800 phones. I dont know if its break in or what, but sound of that amplifier does change after some time. There is no sibilance when you listen proper quality music on muses with hd800. Amplifier seems to sound noticably better when it runs hot ( I keep some stuff on it sometimes ).


----------



## Gandah

gkl said:


> Hey guys. I have my Essence One (original) since March 2012 and relatively recently I've started noticing that it has started buzzing / humming constantly. I can't pinpoint the time when that happened and unfortunately it's quite noticeable. It happens irrespective whether anything is playing or not - the unit just has to be powered on. Though, no issues with the sound itself.
> Do you know what could be the cause and how could it be fixed? It seems that the noise comes from the place where electrical cable is plugged in, i.e., power supply.


 
 Sounds like a ground loop problem, you can test this by powering on the E1 and having nothing else plugged into it only headphones, if buzz is still present it's not a ground loop problem, the unit maybe damaged, but if the buzz isn't present it's a ground loop problem..
  
 You can fix it many ways be buying something like this http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html
             Or
 The easy way is by plugging your source eg:- PC into a different outlet on a different circuit which will eliminate the buzz
  
 Good luck, let us know how you go....


----------



## gipsy

Hi
  
 I am long time Head Fier, actualy, very long time, but mostly reading..
  
 Now I need advice. I got new essence one and while looking for tweaks and opamps I find out that my PCB has gain jumper post which are hardwire, Question is , is it possible to make it work by just cuting the wire and soldering the pins.
 Another thing, as I did lot of read in this thread, it came out, for me and my LCD-X that best combination will be LM4562NA x4 and MUSES02 x2 which I just did orderd.
 I did lot of comparing, and combination of factory installed opamps on my EOne is as per specification for Eone MKII here 
 Here is image of my PCB
  
 Thanks for advices-comments
  
 Gipsy


----------



## Hopup

gipsy said:


> Hi
> 
> I am long time Head Fier, actualy, very long time, but mostly reading..
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Gipsy
  
 I don't have hardwired gain jumpers but as long as those LLo and RLo go where they should go in the pcb you can just cut the wires and solder new wires on those spots I think.


----------



## dynamics

I just put my MUSES up for sale.
  
 If anyone is interested let me know.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/750138/fs-asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition


----------



## gkl

dmarasovic said:


> It could be interference from outer electro-magnetic field. Try to move electrical products that are near (bluetooth and wireless units and mobile phone etc.), as well as E-One itself  and observe changes. Open E-One, push opamps to sit well in sockets, check internal connections. Try to replace power supply cable. If analog outputs are connected to amp or similar, the problem could be there (ground loop ?).


 
  
  


gandah said:


> Sounds like a ground loop problem, you can test this by powering on the E1 and having nothing else plugged into it only headphones, if buzz is still present it's not a ground loop problem, the unit maybe damaged, but if the buzz isn't present it's a ground loop problem..
> 
> You can fix it many ways be buying something like this http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html
> Or
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, guys! I'll try your suggestions out.


----------



## Mach3

gipsy said:


> Hi
> 
> I am long time Head Fier, actualy, very long time, but mostly reading..
> 
> ...




You can desolder the wire and solder on jumper pins you will have the muses edition PCB


----------



## gipsy

Hi Mach3
  
 Glad to have you here. Can you advice if it will be possible to instal miniature toggle switch to be able to change the gain without opening the case??
 Any idea on exact miniature toggle switch configuration??
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mach3

gipsy said:


> Hi Mach3
> 
> Glad to have you here. Can you advice if it will be possible to instal miniature toggle switch to be able to change the gain without opening the case??
> Any idea on exact miniature toggle switch configuration??
> ...


 
  
 What you need after de-soldering the two wire bridge, is to solder on some straight pin strips. They come in long strip like the photo below, but you can cut them to size with a sharp knife and scissor.
 After that you can certainly hook up dip switches to the pins.


----------



## gipsy

Thanks Mach3
  
 Do you have a link where to get it??
 I was thinking tu put something like this toggle switch 
 on the back of the case, above USB connector,,,just, I am not sure if it will be possible to find DPDT toggle switch, for my needs,  which will be even smaller and easyer to fit..
  
 Thanks in advance
  
 gipsy


----------



## DMarasovic

gipsy said:


> Thanks Mach3
> 
> Do you have a link where to get it??
> I was thinking tu put something like this toggle switch
> ...


 
 Gipsy,
 I am sceptical about that operation because those jumpers are probably in signal path or negative reaction path of IC. It's wires should be short and laid as designed. It would be possible to make what you want by soldering miniature relays as close as possible to jumper pins and operate them by toggle switch via DC voltage. I am shure that you do not want to downgrade premium product such as E1 is.


----------



## gipsy

Yes, I neither want to downgrade it, nor brick it...even it is really tempting to look on premade posts for jumpers...when I know that my Cosmic Ears CE6E are about to be finished any time soon.
 I had little conversation with Jimmy from junkyard..and he is as well suggesting not to play with jumpers without tracing the PCB to be sure!!
 That is out of my actual skill at the moment, I'll leave it as it is for now.
 Did order some muses01 and muses02, should be here in Croatia tomorrow, to play with, to feed overclocking hunger.
  
 Please advice on op amp configuration...I have:
 4x MUSES01
 2x MUSES02
 5xLME49720NA 
 2x OPA2132PA
 7x LM4562
 6xNE5532
  
 So far, without muses1 x 4 , i am on
 4xlme49720NA + 2x muses01 with my LCD-X.
 Bass is less pronounced and less havy than with 5532..but else sound better.
  
 Thanks in advance
  
 Gipsy


----------



## DMarasovic

Quote:


gipsy said:


> Yes, I neither want to downgrade it, nor brick it...even it is really tempting to look on premade posts for jumpers...when I know that my Cosmic Ears CE6E are about to be finished any time soon.
> I had little conversation with Jimmy from junkyard..and he is as well suggesting not to play with jumpers without tracing the PCB to be sure!!
> That is out of my actual skill at the moment, I'll leave it as it is for now.
> Did order some muses01 and muses02, should be here in Croatia tomorrow, to play with, to feed overclocking hunger.
> ...


 

 I use 4xOPA2132PA (LPF)+ 2xLM4562(Buffer) at the moment. Even cleaner sound is with 4xLT1028 + 2xOPA627AU but produce more heat.
 I am also from Croatia (Zagreb). Where did you order Muses IC´s from ?
 Best regards!
 Damir


----------



## gipsy

Nice to have you here
  
 I got it from offical distributor for our area...Rutronic Germany.
 Funny thing, as I was reading your post, phone rang...it was guy from DHL, infront of my house with 4x muses1 .
 And I have day off today...
  
 Rolling is about to roll...
 If you like to give them a test, I can loan them after some playing with it. Pass me PM if you are interested.
  
 Regards
  
 Gipsy


----------



## DMarasovic

gipsy said:


> I got it from offical distributor for our area...Rutronic Germany.


 
  Pricing looks affordable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Quote:


> Rolling is about to roll...
> If you like to give them a test, I can loan them after some playing with it. Pass me PM if you are interested.
> 
> Regards
> ...


 
 Thank you, of course I´m interested; mail is on the run.
  
 Best regards,
 Damir


----------



## Mach3

gipsy said:


> Thanks Mach3
> 
> Do you have a link where to get it??
> I was thinking tu put something like this toggle switch
> ...


 
  
 You can't use that toggle switch as it only short one position (meaning only left or right will have sound)
 A dip switch is what should be used instead, although I advised against it as there no fool proof way of mounting it to the back of the E1.
 Not to mention you need special tool for the case work to cut out the hole so it look professional.
 You won't want to do a sloppy job and degrade the quality of the E1 as DMarasovic mentioned.
  
 Anyway if you want to go ahead and do the mod with straight pin and header jumper caps.
 I will provide you with all the detail on what you need as I have completed the mod with a friend E1
 The key is using the right tools
  
 To desolder, I suggest a solder bath as you can simply remove the 2 wires shorting the hi gain. Then drop in the dual row straight pin
  
 On ebay search for *solder bath*

  
 On ebay search for *2.54mm pitch 2 x 40 Pin Male Double Row Pin Header Strip*

  
 On ebay search for *2.54mm Header Jumper Cap*

  
 On ebay search for *2.54mm Pitch 8 pins 4 Positions Ways Slide Type DIP Switch (Optional if you don't want to use jumper header caps)*

  
 End result


----------



## gipsy

Hi Mach3
  
 Amazing...you did it already...it means it should work!!
 Thanks for very detailed instruction and your time.
 As for toggle switch I was thinking on this (M2042) 4 pole double throw miniature or even sub-miniature switch to be connected as per my drawing.. and NKK miniature toggle switch series B snapshoot:

 I think it should work...
 There is a place between headphones volume and headphones socket where it can be installed,,,very tight, but just 3-4 cm from hardwired jumpers.
 Please check if this idea is OK??
  
 It took me some time to figure out solder bath bat this is what you meant??
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHL0a80_oJc
  
 I think I mostly like your dip switch idea _"On ebay search for 2.54mm Pitch 8 pins 4 Positions Ways Slide Type DIP Switch (Optional if you don't want to use jumper header caps)"_
 as I always hated fishing for jumper caps felt down on motherboard as I was trying to reset cmos or something like that..and it is simpliest one.
 Question is, BIG question actually, if hot swapping (on the fly switching) gain jumpers will brick the board or maybe just wouldn't work!??
  
 Thanks
  
 Gipsy


----------



## Mach3

gipsy said:


> Hi Mach3
> 
> Amazing...you did it already...it means it should work!!
> Thanks for very detailed instruction and your time.
> ...


 
  
 Ideally if you're good with soldering I'm planning on soldering the DIP switch directly to the straight pin so no more jumpers.
 Trick with the hot swapping to avoid board damage is to be quick.
 If you're too paranoid to do that, you can also solder the straight pins one by one to avoid any damage to the board.


----------



## Wurstteppich

Did anyone by chance compared the muses edition to the Oppo HA-1? I am wondering if it is just me who feels like the sound of the Oppo is more clear and natural compared to the E1 Muses. Also wondering if an upgrade to the Muses-02 would bring mich difference?


----------



## Mach3

wurstteppich said:


> Did anyone by chance compared the muses edition to the Oppo HA-1? I am wondering if it is just me who feels like the sound of the Oppo is more clear and natural compared to the E1 Muses. Also wondering if an upgrade to the Muses-02 would bring mich difference?


 
 Are you comparing the amp/dac section on both?


----------



## Gandah

wurstteppich said:


> Did anyone by chance compared the muses edition to the Oppo HA-1? I am wondering if it is just me who feels like the sound of the Oppo is more clear and natural compared to the E1 Muses. Also wondering if an upgrade to the Muses-02 would bring mich difference?


 
 I was expecting a lot from the Oppo ha-1, it really didn't do anything for me, sound wise I found it to be clear yes, but extremely boring and not engaging at all.  However the audition was at a meet and wasn't using my own phones, also using the PM-1, so maybe I shouldn't be so hash and give it another spin next time
  
 PS: I couldn't believe how hot it got you could literally fry a egg on top


----------



## Mach3

wurstteppich said:


> Did anyone by chance compared the muses edition to the Oppo HA-1? I am wondering if it is just me who feels like the sound of the Oppo is more clear and natural compared to the E1 Muses. Also wondering if an upgrade to the Muses-02 would bring mich difference?


 
 Can I ask what headphone you were listening to as well.


----------



## Mach3

Just spent the whole afternoon comparing XLR output and AMP section between Asus Essence One with 11x MUSES01 versus the Asus Essence One MUSES Edition. 
 I would conclude, MUSES01 opamps in the XLR output stage is a clear improvement over the LM4562NA opamps found in the stock MUSES edition. It was being feed to the SPL Phonitor.
 Switching between the HE-500 and the ATH-W5000. I notice overall increase detail while not sounding artificial or analytical, slight improve in wider sound stage.
 (XLR Cables used was made by Nakamichi)


----------



## Wurstteppich

I am using the Beyerdynamic T1 and comparing both AMP and DAC to the Oppo HA-1. I like the E1 for having the extra headphone volume knob, it's compact design, for being such a tank (well built) and the less price tag of course. However my first impression was that the Oppo sounds much more clear and detailed. Maybe it's more bright, but it doesn't seem to be too bright to me, just the right amount to create an impressive soundstage. I am using the E1 Muses MKII edition at the moment, but also have the standard MKII edition here. Currently I am thinking to check the Muses-02 in the standard edition to see if I get a better or at least similar sound to the Oppo. Then it would even have my preferred color (the Muses MKII is just offered in silver, but I am heaving everything except the headphone in black). The E1 seems a very solid device to me with a good price and nice features. However I am struggling to keep it over the Oppo, since to me (my personal feeling) it brought me the better sound.


----------



## gipsy

Hi Mach3
  
 Can you please comment on AMP quality/differences between E1 and Phonitor.
 I am asking because I am thinking on getting amp for my LCD-X but not sure if it is worth or to say so: if it will make  big improvement over E1 AMP.
 Amps in my consideration are like of SPL Phonitor, Violectric V200/V181/V281.
  
 Thanks


----------



## endeeinn

I have  an E1 with 6 Muses01 in Slot 1 I/V and Slot 2 buffers with a LME49720HA's in posions 3a and 3b and the sound was great but a little too forward with the mid-highs and a solid but slightly light low-mid bass.  I purchased and just received a DSD upgrade kit which comes with Muses02's for the Slot 2 buffers.   I exchanged the Muses01 in the Slot 2 buffers for the  Muses02's that came with the kit, installed the new drivers and just began listening.   The low-mid bass has now filled out and the upper highs seem much more detailed, cleaner and not as seemingly shouting.   More listening is needed to determine if the system still sounds great after long term listening.   If all pans out and I want to stay with the set-up my thoughts are what to do with the 2 extra Muses01 that were liberated from the Slot 2 buffers.   Are the Muses01 usable in positions 3a and 3b and has anyone done it?  If so what are the impressions?   I'm  thinking after doing some more long term listening I will experiment with the Muses01 in 3a and  3b but only if the group here feels they won't do  harm to the E1 or the Muses01's themselves.


----------



## DMarasovic

endeeinn said:


> I have  an E1 with 6 Muses01 in Slot 1 I/V and Slot 2 buffers with a LME49720HA's in posions 3a and 3b and the sound was great but a little too forward with the mid-highs and a solid but slightly light low-mid bass.  I purchased and just received a DSD upgrade kit which comes with Muses02's for the Slot 2 buffers.   I exchanged the Muses01 in the Slot 2 buffers for the  Muses02's that came with the kit, installed the new drivers and just began listening.   The low-mid bass has now filled out and the upper highs seem much more detailed, cleaner and not as seemingly shouting.   More listening is needed to determine if the system still sounds great after long term listening.   If all pans out and I want to stay with the set-up my thoughts are what to do with the 2 extra Muses01 that were liberated from the Slot 2 buffers.   Are the Muses01 usable in positions 3a and 3b and has anyone done it?  If so what are the impressions?   I'm  thinking after doing some more long term listening I will experiment with the Muses01 in 3a and  3b but only if the group here feels they won't do  harm to the E1 or the Muses01's themselves.


 

 You are free to put Muses 01 into any slot - there could be no harm.
 Regards


----------



## Mach3

gipsy said:


> Hi Mach3
> 
> Can you please comment on AMP quality/differences between E1 and Phonitor.
> I am asking because I am thinking on getting amp for my LCD-X but not sure if it is worth or to say so: if it will make  big improvement over E1 AMP.
> ...


 
  
 from yesterday impression, I feel the E1 even with the MUSES01 in the buffer section. The mids sound a bit more forward than the phonitor (giving the impression that the sound stage is more narrow but it isn't) I'm not imply that the mids aren't clear or accurate on the E1 just different. I would say I prefer neutral tonality of the phonitor more. Was much harder to tell when I dropped the hi-gain to low-gain with the header jumper caps. And the more forward vocals were even less pronounce when I tried my HD800 (In high gain). In regards to the Violectric, my friend sold his V200 because he told me that amp make every headphone he own sounded warmer. His opinion that it really only matched well with the HD800 (he did note you lose some slight micro details due to the warmer sound). This pretty much is the generally view with most reviews I've seen.
 So if you like warmer sound, pick the V200/281 (both of these very simliar sounding, just the V281 has more grunt and balance output)


----------



## Wurstteppich

Hi,
  
 maybe the Muses-02 make a difference here or did you try that already? Right now I am in the situation that I need to decide between the ASUS Essence One MKII Muses and an Oppo HA-1. However in the meanwhile I really got the feeling that the Oppo has the better soundstage, which is much more clear, but still with a kicking bass. Still I am struggling a little bit, since the E1 has also a good build quality, an extra volume knob for the headphone output and of course the lower price (even if exchanging the Muses-01 with the Muses-02 with the DSD kits would bring it closer to the Oppo pricing).


----------



## Mach3

wurstteppich said:


> Hi,
> 
> maybe the Muses-02 make a difference here or did you try that already? Right now I am in the situation that I need to decide between the ASUS Essence One MKII Muses and an Oppo HA-1. However in the meanwhile I really got the feeling that the Oppo has the better soundstage, which is much more clear, but still with a kicking bass. Still I am struggling a little bit, since the E1 has also a good build quality, an extra volume knob for the headphone output and of course the lower price (even if exchanging the Muses-01 with the Muses-02 with the DSD kits would bring it closer to the Oppo pricing).


 
  
  
 Yeah I've already tried that in the headphone amp (buffer) section. I prefer the MUSES01, IMO I prefer it over the stock LME49720HA too.
  
 You don't need the DSD kit if you already own the MKII E1 as it already got the DSD eeprom. Cheaper to just buy the 2x MUSES02 and try it for yourself. Also if you're using the E1 as a DAC only, than you should also populate 3A) RCA Buffer = 1 x LM4562NA or 3B) XLR Buffer = 2 x LM4562NA with MUSES01 depending which output you use.


----------



## LSD25

Anyone know where I can find the A10K potentiometer that will work with this?


----------



## cdsa35000

lsd25 said:


> Would any A10K volume pot work as a replacement for B10K? or are there different ones?
> My headphone volume pot makes static noise, crackles really loud when i turn it till 12'o clock. I'm thinking of desoldering it and putting a new one in... either A10K, or swap it with the speaker volume pot.



*Gloogle is your bet fiend!*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer


> Newer potentiometers will usually be marked with an *'A' for logarithmic* taper or a *'B' for linear* taper.




If it only crackles when the pot is rotated, then the taper traces is oxidized/dirty.
Just turn the potmeter few dozen times fast from panning L to R and R to L etc. etc. to clean it traces itself!


----------



## LSD25

cdsa35000 said:


> *Gloogle is your bet fiend!*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer
> If it only crackles when the pot is rotated, then the taper traces is oxidized/dirty.
> Just turn the potmeter few dozen times fast from panning L to R and R to L etc. etc. to clean it traces itself!


 

 Ahhh, too late, I broke it. I had to tinker with it didn't I? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Well, that's how you learn.
  
 Well, at first the crackling would go away if i turned it a few times back and forth, but over time it got worse and it wouldn't go away.
  
 But anyways, now I tried to open the thing out. I tried to take out the volume knob by turning them, but I turned them too far counterclockwise and now they're loose (not hard stopping), and the volume isn't working anymore. I suppose its broken now?
 So I'll have to get these replaced, just gotta find the right ones from online.


----------



## cdsa35000

lsd25 said:


> Ahhh, too late, I broke it. I had to tinker with it didn't I?  Well, that's how you learn.
> 
> Well, at first the crackling would go away if i turned it a few times back and forth, but over time it got worse and it wouldn't go away.
> 
> ...



They are worn out anyway, get a better audiotype potmeter for better sound.


----------



## LSD25

Will this one work as a replacement? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-12mm-Alpha-A10K-10K-Audio-Taper-Potentiometer-4-Gang-15mm-Shaft-/261667615876
 I hope the pin pitch is right. If so, then I just have to modify it a bit to get the knob fit to the shaft.


----------



## Mach3

lsd25 said:


> Will this one work as a replacement? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-12mm-Alpha-A10K-10K-Audio-Taper-Potentiometer-4-Gang-15mm-Shaft-/261667615876
> I hope the pin pitch is right. If so, then I just have to modify it a bit to get the knob fit to the shaft.




Omg that might actually work


----------



## gipsy

As Asus E1 has really bright LED around power switch I came to easy solution; simple rubber gasket around power button, it works perfectly.


----------



## Gandah

mach3 said:


> Yeah I've already tried that in the headphone amp (buffer) section. I prefer the MUSES01, IMO I prefer it over the stock LME49720HA too.
> 
> You don't need the DSD kit if you already own the MKII E1 as it already got the DSD eeprom. Cheaper to just buy the 2x MUSES02 and try it for yourself. Also if you're using the E1 as a DAC only, than you should also populate 3A) RCA Buffer = 1 x LM4562NA or 3B) XLR Buffer = 2 x LM4562NA with MUSES01 depending which output you use.


 
 All this talk makes me want to go out and buy another E1, I miss experimenting with different opamps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
 Quote:


gipsy said:


> As Asus E1 has really bright LED around power switch I came to easy solution; simple rubber gasket around power button, it works perfectly.


 
 Nice one, I always hated that led


----------



## Mach3

Great news for people who own the old E1 without the gain switch.
 I spend the whole afternoon comparing the difference between the MUSES Edition and the standard E1 PCB track. 
 Turns out it possible to implement the same feature on the old E1 for low gain with a tiny circuit to feed the audio signal through to a 24.9k Ohm resistor.
 I'll try and figure out a way to securely mount it on the PCB before posting picture.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

lsd25 said:


> Will this one work as a replacement? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-12mm-Alpha-A10K-10K-Audio-Taper-Potentiometer-4-Gang-15mm-Shaft-/261667615876
> I hope the pin pitch is right. If so, then I just have to modify it a bit to get the knob fit to the shaft.


 
 As far as I know the original potentiometer is the alpha rd904 b10k. It has a 6mm shaft. You can buy these here for example: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ALPHA-RD904-B10K-quadruple-potentiometer-20-mm-half-axial-length/1482759719.html


----------



## LSD25

Just received the MUSES opamps in mail. Now I wait for the potentiometers... another 2 - 3 weeks.. maybe more.
 This sucks, can't even test them out since the volume doesn't work lol


----------



## Wage

Does anyone know how to remove the front panel from the Xonar One? I've removed all visible screws but cannot get it off of the volume knobs.

 The main reason I need to remove it is to see if I can reseat the volume knobs after turning them too much. They now just turn over and over without stopping (and are left at MAX volume always)


----------



## LSD25

wage said:


> Does anyone know how to remove the front panel from the Xonar One? I've removed all visible screws but cannot get it off of the volume knobs.
> 
> The main reason I need to remove it is to see if I can reseat the volume knobs after turning them too much. They now just turn over and over without stopping (and are left at MAX volume always)


 

 You got a similar problem as mine. Wanted to take the front panel off, and I thought the only way volume knobs would come off is if i turn them past their stop and just unscrew them. But now they just turn over and over without stopping, and I have my volume permanently at 0.
  
 You just have to pull the knob straight out though, its hard to get it out since there is no grip at all.
 But once you get it off, you'll see hex nut screwed on the shaft, just gotta unscrew those and you'll be able to get the panel off.
  
 As for the volume pot, you will have to replace and solder new one in.


----------



## Wage

lsd25 said:


> You got a similar problem as mine. Wanted to take the front panel off, and I thought the only way volume knobs would come off is if i turn them past their stop and just unscrew them. But now they just turn over and over without stopping, and I have my volume permanently at 0.
> 
> 
> You just have to pull the knob straight out though, its hard to get it out since there is no grip at all.
> ...


 

 Sheesh, well thanks for the headsup. I have the E1 MUSES, so guess I'll continue going DACless while I wait for the Essence III to sell stateside then use my MUSES opamps in that. If you have luck with those A10s please post back letting us know; I can probably manage it but am not a soldering guru per se.
  
 I kinda broke my pots on purpose out of frustration over the channel imbalance that kept happening OVER AND OVER these past couple weeks. If I had known it was the pot itself that was bad, I probably would've left it alone, but DACless balance >>>>> DAC that keeps deciding to play a song too far left or right mid-playback! Grrrrr...


----------



## gipsy

Is this our potentiometar here?? RD 904 B10K


----------



## Wage

whit3rav3n said:


> As far as I know the original potentiometer is the alpha rd904 b10k. It has a 6mm shaft. You can buy these here for example: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ALPHA-RD904-B10K-quadruple-potentiometer-20-mm-half-axial-length/1482759719.html


 
  
 Bought four of these from the linked seller and will report back after soldering. Was originally going to wait for Essence III to start selling stateside, but I have a feeling that may not happen very soon (if at all). There's a guy on eBay selling some from Germany, but the fact that he's charging $150+ more than MSRP (plus $50 shipping) and my chances of RMA are slim because I'm purchasing from some foreign reseller have me gunshy, at least until I see if these replacement pots work -_-


----------



## gipsy

Let us know, please....


----------



## tomsag

Bought a used Essence one a few days ago, and - while satisfied - would like to upgrade the op amps to MUSES edition or, to find an even better match.
 Just ordered 4 MUSES 01 for I/V replacing, but now I wonder which ones to take for the Low pass filter?
 DSD upgrade manual suggests, beside MUSES 02, the AD827SQ - and I wonder has anyone made such a combination?
 Another option for the Low pass are LME49990MA (two of them on SOIC DIP as can be bought on ebay or similar)
  
 I also wonder could it be possible to drive the AMP from Essence One (RCA or XLR) without anything in the buffer stage? Or how could I try to find fine op amps for the buffer stage with less gain than the stock ones?
 Namely, my amp (balanced) has high gain, so the pot is about 10 o'clock at normal listening levels...
 Anyone with same gain problems?


----------



## winged creature

tomsag said:


> Bought a used Essence one a few days ago, and - while satisfied - would like to upgrade the op amps to MUSES edition or, to find an even better match.
> Just ordered 4 MUSES 01 for I/V replacing, but now I wonder which ones to take for the Low pass filter?
> DSD upgrade manual suggests, beside MUSES 02, the AD827SQ - and I wonder has anyone made such a combination?
> Another option for the Low pass are LME49990MA (two of them on SOIC DIP as can be bought on ebay or similar)
> ...


 
 Where did you order the 4 MUSES01 from, I'm trying to find a reputable seller.  I have 2 MUSES02 where the low pass filter is currently.


----------



## tomsag

I've bought them on ebay. They might NOT be the original ones, but I believe in this seller.
 Here is the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161085567268?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Once I have them, will report about the audio quality. Personally, I do believe in this seller, as some Chinese producers buy a big lot and sell some of the quantity to others...
 Anyway, I've also purchased some AD827SQ and MUSES 02 and once everything is plugged in,
 will be able to get the original Muses edition on listening test.
  
 So the real ones will have to sound better than the chinese (if they are fake?). 
 will report about this.


----------



## tomsag

I can recommend the Muses 01 on I/V and AD827SQ on Low Pass. Sounds more precise than the original Muses 01 at the Low Pass.
 Very warm and punchy, nice treble with wide soundstage.


----------



## Draceus

EDITED: Ignore this post


----------



## wanted110

Hi guys. Serious problem unsolved here : Can someone post a link to a replacement pot to solve the unbalance problem of the B10K ? 
 As some others, this is draving me crazy !


----------



## Mach3

wanted110 said:


> Hi guys. Serious problem unsolved here : Can someone post a link to a replacement pot to solve the unbalance problem of the B10K ?
> As some others, this is draving me crazy !




http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ALPHA-RD904-B10K-quadruple-potentiometer-20-mm-half-axial-length/1482759719.html

The A10K pot are only sold in lots of 1000 @ about 2.20 including shipping


----------



## wanted110

mach3 said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ALPHA-RD904-B10K-quadruple-potentiometer-20-mm-half-axial-length/1482759719.html
> 
> The A10K pot are only sold in lots of 1000 @ about 2.20 including shipping


  

 So you are suggesting that i order a bunch of b10k and hope one will be balanced ?


----------



## Mach3

Order 5. Failure rate aren't that high for all 5 to be imbalance


----------



## wanted110

mach3 said:


> Order 5. Failure rate aren't that high for all 5 to be imbalance


 
 I'll try this, thanks.


----------



## TheGoldenEars

Does anyone know a website (preferably well known) that is known to sell only the version of the DAC without the unbalance issue? If I buy now from Amazon is there a chance I will get the one with this issue?


----------



## 4Real

thegoldenears said:


> Does anyone know a website (preferably well known) that is known to sell only the version of the DAC without the unbalance issue? If I buy now from Amazon is there a chance I will get the one with this issue?


 
 You would need to get a Muses Edition, thats the only version that has a different pot on the headphone volume.


----------



## TheGoldenEars

4real said:


> You would need to get a Muses Edition, thats the only version that has a different pot on the headphone volume.


 
  
 Thanks! Is the Essence III clear from the issue too?


----------



## Mach3

thegoldenears said:


> Thanks! Is the Essence III clear from the issue too?


 
 Yes it is, but good luck finding a distributor anywhere else in the world except Europe.


----------



## 4Real




----------



## raoultrifan

Hi guys, 
  
 I just bought myself a piece of Essence One and I'm quite happy about it. 
  
 Of course, I'm already thinking of modding it:
 - according to csarrow and mach3: replace KT with KA caps, increase PSU's caps
 - add tantalums for+/-12V and +5V
 - add 3 x 2.2uF in parallel with trafo's secondary coils;
 - add EMI/RFI filter (capacitors and coils);
 - replace BK10 with 4-gangs equivalent logarithmic from BOURNE (Mouser has something)
 - according to MaestroSfai (https://audiofilifiorentini.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/modifiche-sonore-al-dac-asus-one-che-risorgerc3a0.pdf): replace output caps with dc-servo circuit with TL072, like is already implemented in E1's headphone amp with LME49720.
 Well, I still love E1's warranty right now, so...I'll probably wait a couple of years till starting these quite intrusive/obvious mods. 
  
 Meantime, after swapping some opams (NE5532, LM4562, OPA2604, OPA1602) in different positions I realized that best sound I could get is having OPA2604 in I/V and OPA1602 in LPF. Best soundstage indeed, but too bad I can't keep the OPA2604 in IV anymore, because of overheating: around 65C with case open and most likely 75C or even more with case closed.  Will not try adding heatsinks on OPA2604 because I really think they are oscillating, so I'll try finding an oscilloscope first or I'll just try OPA1642 in IV soon.
  
 Speaking of opening and closing E1's case, while keeping my AKG 550's on my head with volume pot at max. (E1's mute button = ON) I realized that I have an audible hum around 100-200Hz when case is closed or even partially-closed, but not hum at all while case is fully open. Same hum, but a little bit less disturbing, was heard with my Grado SR60i L-cush, so looks like thick aluminium case is reflecting trafo's hum/noise back inside the DAC's circuit.
 Then, I realized there are tests proving the existence of this noise: http://www.homemedia.fr/tests/i/mesures/asus-essence-one-rmaa/ASUS%20Xonar%20Essence%20One%2096%20khz.htm and http://archimago.blogspot.ro/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html.
 So, I found out that trafo needs to be repositioned and least hum-noise I could get is placing it vice-versa (yes, with bottom on top) and angled with about 30 degrees, like in pictures attached. This decreased the hum-noise with more than half. I've used 1 x clothes-pin and 1 x rubber-band to do this "trafo rearrangement", but I'm sure this can be done way much better looking. 
  
 Just to be sure noise will decrease further, I've also added a ferrite-core around the power cord and a small DIY RC filter between chassis ground and mains power ground (5K/4Watts resistor || 330nF cap), somehow similar with what Meier Corda does in his amps.
  
 Is anyone else able to hear that hum I'm speaking about or just my E1 has this issue?
  
 Thanks, 
 Raul.


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Yup, My E1 has a hum too. You can clearly notice it when nothing is playing the headphones seem to block noise from outside a little, then without the hum.


----------



## 4Real

Zero hum for me with the muses edition, first thing I did with mine was test for any noise at full volume, and I can honestly say its dead silent, and that was in high gain with sensitive IEM's,


----------



## raoultrifan

Thanks guys,
  
  
 4Real, my E1 has Muses Edition PCB inside, the one with gain jumpers but with B10k pot, so this is not related to PCB at all, but to transformer inside PSU. If you have zero hum-noise with sensitive headphones, than I'd say you're lucky. 
  
 Regards, 
 Raul.


----------



## DMarasovic

raoultrifan said:


> Is anyone else able to hear that hum I'm speaking about or just my E1 has this issue?
> 
> Thanks,
> Raul.


 
 My E1 is also dead silent. I have swapped lots of IC's and it was never able to hear or measure hum. Hum can be produced by oscillating amp, so check to use recommended one and assure that IC sits in position with good pin contact to socket. When IC is oscillating, it produces high (even radio) frequencies and everything around it acts as an aerial. That could include power transformer.
  
 Regards.
 Damir


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi Damir,
  
 With default opamps I got the same hum. Like I said before, rearranging power transformer resolves the issue. I have reasons to believe that all E1s are like that because they all share the same trafo part no., so all you need is AKG K550 and a dead silent room (at 2AM in the morning) to do the testing.  You will not hear hum with any kind of headphone, even not with all IEMs, so try it out with K550 please.
  
 Feel free to check the screenshots here: http://www.homemedia.fr/tests/i/mesures/asus-essence-one-rmaa/ASUS%20Xonar%20Essence%20One%2096%20khz.htm and http://archimago.blogspot.ro/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html.You can see the hum I'm speaking about, especially 2'nd and 3'rd harmonic (around 200 Hz and 300 Hz). DACs having external PSU doesn't have this hum at all...just pure white noise maybe, but not hum.
  
 Cheers, 
 Raul.


----------



## 4Real

raoultrifan said:


> Hi Damir,
> 
> With default opamps I got the same hum. Like I said before, rearranging power transformer resolves the issue. I have reasons to believe that all E1s are like that because they all share the same trafo part no., so all you need is AKG K550 and a dead silent room (at 2AM in the morning) to do the testing.  You will not hear hum with any kind of headphone, even not with all IEMs, so try it out with K550 please.
> 
> ...


 

 Damir said he doesn't have hum.
  
 Why would you only here it with the AKG
  
 I've used a number of full size cans with low impedance that are sensitive, like the X2 for example.
  
 I've also used a number of IEM's with great isolation, ranging from 16ohms - 32ohms, I have zero noise with any of them.
  
 I have amps that have an audible hum, hiss or both, but my muses edition isn't one of them, which was a surprise as I expected the opposite to be true.


----------



## raoultrifan

Thanks 4Real, 
  
 I'm sure you are right. So, maybe ASUS is installing 2 different type of PSU transformers after all.
  
 Anyway, E1's trafo is way too close of headamp and it's totally unshielded, so...for those who have the "hum issue", looks like repositioning trafo's helps a lot.
  
 Thanks,
 Raul.


----------



## 4Real

raoultrifan said:


> Thanks 4Real,
> 
> I'm sure you are right. So, maybe ASUS is installing 2 different type of PSU transformers after all.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sure there are many factors that come into play. 
  
 Others may have a different experience, I'm just saying that mine is different from yours.


----------



## raoultrifan

Also, quality control for Muses Edition should probably be different, mostly because it's cost is 75% higher than E1.


----------



## DMarasovic

raoultrifan said:


> Hi Damir,
> 
> With default opamps I got the same hum. Like I said before, rearranging power transformer resolves the issue. I have reasons to believe that all E1s are like that because they all share the same trafo part no., so all you need is AKG K550 and a dead silent room (at 2AM in the morning) to do the testing.  You will not hear hum with any kind of headphone, even not with all IEMs, so try it out with K550 please.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Raul,
 My Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO are among several HP's that are references for low frequency reproduction, down to infrasonic. Posted links show that there are no peaks above -100 db, and that is unhearable at low frequencies. Your situation must be much worse than that.
 Here are two of my measurements taken two years ago during extensive swapping.


 This is loopback measurement of my Terratec audio card in standard PC.
  
  

 This is E1 measurement with LT1028+OPA627AU amps.
  
 As you can see there is only slight contribution to Hum and Noise by E1.
 E1 is obviously much better than my measuring audio card.
  
 Now I use 6x Muses 01 opamps and that is the best setup (tried Muses 02 also).
  
 Have you tried to move E1 away of the other possible sources of interference.
 I have noticed that mobile phone can make noises in E1 if placed less than 1 meter close.
  
 Best regards,
 Damir


----------



## raoultrifan

Thanks Damir for your reply,
  
 I will try to do a loop-back noise-check when I'll have the time; will probably use the U7 sound-card, as it has a quite decent ADC.
  
 The tests I've done were outside the room, in the balcony, so there were no interferences.
  
 My hum is almost gone now and I don't have the issue anymore, because, like you can see in my attached images from one of my previous posts, my trafo has been repositioned upside-down and a bit angled with about 30 degrees. This hum was only audible when case was closed, because the thick aluminium case was reflecting the electromagnetic interferences from transformer inside the PCB (most likely to LME49720 from headamp and to B10K pots).
   
Cheers,

 Raul.
  
 P.S.: AKG K550/32 have 114dB SPL/V, that means it only needs around 1Volt to get to 115dB. DT770/250 have an SPL of only 96dB/mW, so it needs about 4.5 times more voltage than K550 to get the same 115dB.  This is the only reason I'm using K550 to test for noise background and hum. I also used them 1 year ago in finding the correct position for the trafo inside a DIY headamp with LME49720+BUF634 with quite good results.


----------



## Mach3

raoultrifan said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just bought myself a piece of Essence One and I'm quite happy about it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Raul,
  
 That's really odd with the hum you mentioned. I have tested for the so call hum on both my Essence One and I do not hear it at all.
 Sounds like you could benefit from a power conditioner.
  
 Anyway, it's been a while since I posted any update on my modding adventure with both my E1.
 For a starter, I'm glad to announce. It's possible to create the high gain and low gain feature on the standard E1.
 That means if you do the mod below, change the B10K pot (You don't need to change the pot if you don't have imbalance issue) and Muses 01 opamps you got yourself a Muses Editio
 I've also upgraded both unit to DSD and now it showing up as MKII in the taskbar icon.


----------



## raoultrifan

> Sounds like you could benefit from a power conditioner.


 
  
 Hi Mach3, glad to read about the gain mod on regular E1. Thank you!
  
 The hum I'm hearing is from transformer's electro-magnetic waves (50Hz, 50Hz x 2, 50Hz x 3...) and can't be filtered with a power conditioner (I already have a small power conditioner). I need to create a EMI shield to return EMI waves inside transformer (like a Faraday cage): http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/Supplier%20Content/SignalTransformer_595/PDF/signal-transformer-pi-caging-transformer.pdf?redirected=1.
  
 Anyway, by repositioning the trafo inside E1 I'm pretty fine right now.
  
 Raul.


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi guys,
  
 I fixed the hum noise for good today by wrapping twice a band of "grain-oriented silicon steel" (G.O.S.S. band) around the toroidal transformer. Now there's absolutely no hum at all (AKG K550, quiet night, mute=ON, pot. to the max.).
  
 The G.O.S.S. band I got it from a friend who works as engineer for Petra-toroid (I got it for free, they don't sell this). Also Talema is implementing this as well in Hi-Fi equipment: http://www.nuvotem.com/en/products/gossband_large.shtml.
  
 3 images attached; not very eye-caching, but now with case closed the hum is completely gone and I'm happy again. 
  

  
  

  

  
 Cheers,
 Raul.


----------



## Mach3

raoultrifan said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I fixed the hum noise for good today by wrapping twice a band of "grain-oriented silicon steel" (G.O.S.S. band) around the toroidal transformer. Now there's absolutely no hum at all (AKG K550, quiet night, mute=ON, pot. to the max.).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't need this, but I want some of that G.O.S.S. to do both my E1  Modding bug is addictive.


----------



## raoultrifan

Now really Mach3, get out the capacitors from RCA/XLR output and remove DC-offset with opamps like TL082 or anything else. I need to wait for the warranty to expire to start modding my E1...
  
 BTW, I found GOSS on Aliababa; they're selling in small pieces of 5 tons. 
  
 P.S.: Mach3, I realize that you have 2 E1s; did you happen to have an A/B testing device (for phones/RCA/XLR)? If yes, then from where did you bought it, please?


----------



## DMarasovic

raoultrifan said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I fixed the hum noise for good today by wrapping twice a band of "grain-oriented silicon steel" (G.O.S.S. band) around the toroidal transformer. Now there's absolutely no hum at all (AKG K550, quiet night, mute=ON, pot. to the max.).
> 
> Cheers, Raul.


 
 Well done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Is the shield grounded or not?
  
 Best regards,
 Damir


----------



## raoultrifan

No, not grounded, because the guy who provided me the metallic band told me it's not necesary (it's just EM field there and this band only reflects EM waves inside the toroid trafo).
  
 Here http://www.nuvotem.com/en/products/gossband_large.shtml is something simillar with what I did and it's not grounded. 
  
 Thank you, 
 Raul.


----------



## Mach3

raoultrifan said:


> Now really Mach3, get out the capacitors from RCA/XLR output and remove DC-offset with opamps like TL082 or anything else. I need to wait for the warranty to expire to start modding my E1...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hi Raul,

I'm not sure what you asking me to do exactly between my two E1. Can you clarify thanks


----------



## raoultrifan (Dec 26, 2018)

Mach3, could you please check http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3135#post_11630160? There are 6 mods I'd like to try out when my E1 will be out of warranty. Eliminating (shorting) the output capacitors is the last mod from this list.

 My E1 right now has an output DC of +/-7mV measured before output capacitors, but this may very, depending on OPAMPs used. Basically, anyone can measure the output DC before capacitors and if it's lower than 10-20mV can easily bypass output capacitors, but it's not a safe thing to do without implementing a DC-servo circuit, because in case of fail-over (PSU damage, OPAMP damage etc.) there will be a lot of DC voltage present on output and this might completely damage the input stage of devices connected to XLR/RCA outputs of E1.

 So, you might try the circuit presented by MastroSfai from the link above or you can modify the circuit presented by TI, the same circuit from E1's headphone amplifier; see the datasheet of LME49600 for this. TI is using half of OPAMP for audio and the other half for DC-servo. You can adapt this circuit by only using 1 x OPAMP for DC-servo.

 Also, a RLC filter and a ferrite bead over the power cord will decrease further the noise of E1. Most noise in an audio device comes from PSU, unshielded or bad/cheap cables and bad PCB design, but not from OPAMPs. Cheap RFI/EMI power line suppressor filters could be found on Mouser, Digikey, TME, Farnell, Arrow etc. Right now I'm using a small power stripper which already has such a suppressing filter inside; a ferrite bead I installed myself over the power cord.
https://electrosome.com/x-and-y-rated-capacitors/
http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/Supplier%20Content/Lambda_285/PDF/TDKLambda_all_about_emi_epmag.pdf?redirected=1

 Also, if you have a noisy electrical ground (home electrical appliances generate a lot of noise on mains ground which is connected with E1 circuit's ground and case) you can anytime create a ground-loop breaker circuit like the one implemented by Meier Corda: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZKbJDWQf0Bg/Uyl8vfXe8RI/AAAAAAAAEs4/2vP3e0WS4Xs/s1600/powersupply1mk2.gif. You will not be able to fully separate the circuit ground from the main chassis, but at least you will be able to separate the main chassis from the mains electrical ground (https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/7391574.jpg).

 Thanks,
 Raul


----------



## raoultrifan

I was trying to investigate why 4 x OPA2604 in I/V are so hot; even the PSU's regulators are hotter than usual. So, without a proper scope to investigate for oscillations, I was measuring the power drawn by 4 x NE5532 and then with 4 x OPA2604:
 - 4 x NE5532 in I/V: 54-55mA/230V, 12.65 Watts
 - 4 x OPA2604 in I/V: 70-71 mA/230V, 16.1 Watts (almost 30% more power drawn from the main outlet!)
 Looks like the OPA2604 drains with 3.45 Watts more than NE5532 and that means an additional 0.8625 Watts more per each OPA2604, that means the OPAMP is really oscillating and based on TI datasheet this is the max. power possible for this OPAMP at around 75-85C. 
 Strange thing, these OPA2604 does not oscillate when used in LPF.
  
 I did some tracing a little bit around I/V and LPF stages and looks like the circuit is quite similar with the original presented by TI here http://www.ti.com/product/PCM1795/datasheet/application_and_implementation (fig. 53).
 I was able to identify:
R1, R2 = 820ohms
R3, R4 = 220ohms
R5, R6 = 200ohms
R7, R8 = 180ohms
 C1 = 2200pF
 C3 = 8200pF
 Pins 3 & 5 for all 4 x OPAMPs from I/V stage are directly connected to GND.
  
 Decoupling is correctly done with SMD capacitors (electrolytic parallel with ceramic/MLCC) very close to +/-V pins, so my only explanation for OPA2604 oscillating is that PCB power traces are too close to Input- or Output pins of the OPAMPs or ground or power planes are not perfectly for use with OPA2604. 
 Too bad, because I really liked the sound from these OPAMPs, maybe because they were oscillating.  I'll probably try OPA1642 soon, just to give it a try.
  
 Regards!


----------



## Gandah

I'm not really technically minded but when I first had my E1 I also had a hum, it was because of a grounding loop. I fixed this by plugging in power using 2 different circuits, E1 on its own circuit, source on the other.
  
 Another way of doing this if you don't have access to 2 separate circuits is to modify the USB cable by breaking off or covering the ground pin


----------



## WildStyle-R11

Say, I'm not all that advanced in the Tech part of this whole audio world. and so I will be getting passive speakers. and a temp amp which is very basic and I need to use a dac. I assume the E1 RCA will do the trick for E1 to be used as dac and volume control for speaker amp? Should work right?


----------



## raoultrifan

Yes, indeed. The middle pot volume will adjust both balanced and unbalanced outputs.


----------



## RamGuy

I'm having trouble with SPDIF (Optical) from Creative Titanium HD to my Asus Xonar Essence One. It mostly works, but small audio clips like the one you get when you click the audio mixer / leveler in Windows which give you the small Windows notification sound it clips mid-sound so I only hear the first and the last portion of the audio and not the middle. This is really frustrating as it gives me a hard time noticing Skype notifications and various other things at times.
  
 There is no problem using in for Skype calls, gaming and whatnot so I have no real clue what might cause the issue. I tried switching to coax instead of optical but it does not seem like the Creative Titanium HD supports coax so that didn't work and I have also tried with a complete re-installation of the drivers, the operating system and with standard drivers and modified drivers. They all give the same results.
  
  
 It's not a huge problem, but it's something I would prefer to get fixed. I'm using SPDIF from Creative Titanium HD in order to get CMSS:3D (surround virtualization) in games and movies as the Essence One does not support any kind of surround matrix itself and there is sadly no support for surround bitstreming like Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Live or anything and no Dolby Headphones, Dolby Pro Logic etc..


----------



## RamGuy

I just stumbled upon something I have never seen before; http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3
  
 Creative does not mention anything about compatibility with various hardware so I have no clue whether it would work with the Xonar Essence One over USB? But I have people reporting it works with Logitech G930 using USB (external audio card) so unless the C-Media chip in the Xonar Essence One is not supported it should work?
  
 Having the software completely separated from my on-board audio card would make me able to simply toss my Titanium HD out of the loop and simply relay directly on the Essence One running USB and with the Creative Software Suit I would still be able to get the surround virtualisation I want.


----------



## 4Real

ramguy said:


> I'm having trouble with SPDIF (Optical) from Creative Titanium HD to my Asus Xonar Essence One. It mostly works, but small audio clips like the one you get when you click the audio mixer / leveler in Windows which give you the small Windows notification sound it clips mid-sound so I only hear the first and the last portion of the audio and not the middle. This is really frustrating as it gives me a hard time noticing Skype notifications and various other things at times.
> 
> There is no problem using in for Skype calls, gaming and whatnot so I have no real clue what might cause the issue. I tried switching to coax instead of optical but it does not seem like the Creative Titanium HD supports coax so that didn't work and I have also tried with a complete re-installation of the drivers, the operating system and with standard drivers and modified drivers. They all give the same results.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


ramguy said:


> I just stumbled upon something I have never seen before; http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3
> 
> Creative does not mention anything about compatibility with various hardware so I have no clue whether it would work with the Xonar Essence One over USB? But I have people reporting it works with Logitech G930 using USB (external audio card) so unless the C-Media chip in the Xonar Essence One is not supported it should work?
> 
> Having the software completely separated from my on-board audio card would make me able to simply toss my Titanium HD out of the loop and simply relay directly on the Essence One running USB and with the Creative Software Suit I would still be able to get the surround virtualisation I want.


 

 There's something else you can try, namely Voicemeeter Banana.
  
 If you install Voicemeeter Banana, your get two new devices in windows playback devices. One will be called "Voicemeter Input" which you set up as normal, so if its multi channel then make it multi channel, then select that as the default device.
  
 Now run Voicemeeter Banana, everything will now be coming into Voicemeeter Banana under "Virtual Inputs" on the Voicemeter VAIO channel. You need to enable A1 on that channel which will send it to the A1 channel in the master section.
  
 Now click on the A1 next to "hardware out" and select your Essences One (your essence one must be on), one of those in the list should be ASIO, if you enable that, your bit perfect light should come on.
  
 Then give it a try.
  
http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/banana.htm
  
 That other device in playback devices is for the other virtual channel Voicemeeter AUX.
  
 There's a manual on that page I linked to, its not that hard to figure out, I use it for the Parametric EQ with Spotify free.
  
 Disconnect your optical cable before you start.


----------



## RamGuy

I wasn't entirely sure on how to get VoiceMeter Banana working correctly. But what I've done thus far is;
  
 - "Speakers - Creative SB X-Fi" as default playback device in Windows with 5,1-speaker setup and with CMSS:3D headphone enabled in the Creative software. This is in order to get the CMSS:3D working properly. Pushing it over toslink has been somewhat difficult as it will suddenly drop the CMSS:3D / DSP at times.
  
 - Enable ""What U Hear" - Creative SB X-Fi" as Hardware Input 1 in VoiceMeter Banana. This way I will get everything played through "Speakers - Creative SB X-Fi" routed through VoiceMeter Banana and pushed to whatever I put as Hardware Out. I did run the CMSS:3D test and it seems to be working as intended so this preservers all the DPS-effects from Creative.
  
 - Enable "Asus Xonar Essence One" as the A1 Hardware Out so I get the audio on my headphones through the DAC.
  
  
 The only thing I'm not entirely sure about is whether this whole "What U Hear" thing is the ideal way to go? It was the only logical way I could seem to get things working. Secondly I'm not sure what's the difference between choosing WDM and MME on "What U Hear" as the input. I simply selected WDM as it was the topmost alternative. Same goes for A1 and Hardware Out. I can select WDM, KS, MME or ASIO. I did go with ASIO at first, but I noticed that every five or so seconds I would have a small pop noise which got rather annoying and it's gone when I chose KS instead.


----------



## 4Real

ramguy said:


> I wasn't entirely sure on how to get VoiceMeter Banana working correctly. But what I've done thus far is;
> 
> - "Speakers - Creative SB X-Fi" as default playback device in Windows with 5,1-speaker setup and with CMSS:3D headphone enabled in the Creative software. This is in order to get the CMSS:3D working properly. Pushing it over toslink has been somewhat difficult as it will suddenly drop the CMSS:3D / DSP at times.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You should have left your setup exactly the same but just made the default device in windows playback devices "Voicemeter Input", think of it like this VoiceMeter Banana takes over the job of windows playback devices, you select the outputs to the hardware at "hardware out" A1, A2, A3 in VoiceMeter Banana.
  
 That way every thing goes through VoiceMeter Banana on the Voicemeter VAIO channel as I described above. I wouldn't even use the hardware inputs in VoiceMeter Banana.
  
 If you go to the bottom of the page in the link there's a manual, it explains what WDM, MME are (one is wasapi), there's also some options under menu/settings that you might need to use, I had to change the buffering size to get rid of some funny sounds.
  
 I'm pretty sure if you try and follow what I said above it should work.


----------



## 4Real

Maybe this will help
  
 Check the screenshot below, once you have made "Voicemeter Input" the default device in windows playback devices the only thing you should be interested in are the channels I've left the faders up on.
  
 Don't forget if its a multi channel device you have to set up "Voicemeter Input" as multi channel just as you would a real device in playback devices.
  
http://i.imgur.com/rm9OyjL.png
  
 It comes in on "Voicemeter VAIO" and goes out on A1


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi guys, 
  
 Tried myself few opamps lately in I/V and LPF stages, like: OPA1602, LME49720, MUSES8820, OPA2604, OPA1642, OPA2132PA and MUSES02; FETs in I/V and bipolars in LPF.
 I bought OPA1642 because is a step up in every aspect from OPA2134 and TI recommends it as an upgrade in audio chain: https://e2e.ti.com/support/amplifiers/precision_amplifiers/w/design_notes/upgrading-op-amps-in-audio-equipment. If anyone else experimented with this opamp, please let me/us know your conclusions.
  
 Haven't seen people trying the below combination, so...I'll just post my thoughts here:
  
 - In LPF, MUSES02 and MUSES8820 are very similar; also OPA1602 is about the same too (perhaps not so detailed).
 - The only FET I tried in LPF was OPA2604 and this is quite neutral, not bright at all and not very detailed...a bit dark I'd say and might be good to pair with bright headphones.
  
 - Best soundstage is with OPA2604 in I/V, but oscillates a lot and can't be a keeper. Not very detailed, but soundstage was great.
 - OPA2132PA + MUSES02 is detailed and a bit bright with good soundstage.
 - OPA1642 and MUSES8820 has a very similar sound with the OPA2132PA+MUSES02 from above, maybe a little bit more mid-range (saxophone)...but very difficult to conclude 100%. Sound is clean and definitely more detailed then NE5532, a little bit more bright I'd say, but a bit more spacious and relaxed.
  
 As I couldn't keep MUSES02 for myself (borrowed from a friend) now I'm using 4 x OPA1642 in I/V, 2 x MUSES8820 in LPF, 2 x MUSES8820 in headamp input stage (yes, I replaced LME49720 with MUSES8820) and original LM4562 in buffer stage RCA/XLR.
  
 Also, I realized that LM4562 is included into schematic only because of volume pot from the middle.  So, anyone can bypass the 3 x LM4562, based on "best opamp is no opamp" and get the outputs directly from LPF opamps; output voltage will remain unchanged, just don't forget to add the output capacitors for any possible DC voltage (by default there is no DC on LPF outputs, but in case of PSU or opamp failure it will be a lot of DC on output pins!).
  
 Also, just measured the other day with my Picoscope the PSU ripple + noise (RMS) and it's only about few hundreds of uVolts on each rail (250-500uV), so this looks pretty OK for me. BTW, if someone replaced the main PSU capacitors with bigger ones, please let us know the values for ripple + noise (RMS). Thanks!
  
 Anyway, best upgrade for my E1 was the GOSS band around the trafo, which completely removed the barely audible hum. BTW, the hum I was hearing initially to my E1 I was able to hear it to another E1 of a friend of mine too, having the original PCB (non-MUSES edition, without gain jumpers), so K550 are really sensitive for this job. 
  
 Headphones used for testing: DT880/600, K701 and K550.
  
 Regards and happy modding, 
 Raul.


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## endeeinn

> OPA1642 and MUSES8820 has a very similar sound with the OPA2132PA+MUSES02 from above, maybe a little bit more mid-range (saxophone)...but very difficult to conclude 100%. Sound is clean and definitely more detailed then NE5532, a little bit more bright I'd say, but a bit more spacious and relaxed.


 
 I have muses01 and muses02 in my essence one but had experimented with opa1642's in the E1 in the past before sticking with the mus01/02 combo as in the MKII.   Your post got me thinking about trying the opa1642's in my Marchand XM44. I only had 6 of the OPA1642's so I put them into the input stage and the high pass filter.   I must say that I agree with your observations ... a little more  pronounced midrangee  and more high end ...almost seems like it gained an octave but some recordings are not that detailed in the upper end of the HF so not sure if it's the opamp or the recording.   Need to listen more than just the one day  they've been in.   Need 10 more to completely fill the XM44 with 1642's so will do some more listening to decide if it might be worth in.   Just curious...did you stick with the 1642's or did you give up on them for some of the observations that I've  made?


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi endeeinn and thanks for your post.
  
 I bought OPA1642 especially to test them in E1's I/V stage, mostly based on TI's recommandations.
  
 I'm curious if you can re-test 4 x OPA1642 in your E1's I/V stage and do a quick compare with MUSES01 (stage, details etc.). This is something it hasn't been done before on Head-Fi...I guess. 
  
 Thank you, 
 Raul.


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## endeeinn

raoultrifan said:


> Hi endeeinn and thanks for your post.
> 
> I bought OPA1642 especially to test them in E1's I/V stage, mostly based on TI's recommandations.
> 
> ...


 
 I've got a few projects in the works that I need to finish before I can AB the 1642/Muse01 but I can tell you I had the same concerns as with my XM44.  The 1642s had seemed like they opened up another octave with a lot more detail but they seemed a little harsh....I liked them but the was something ....not so with the Muse01s ... they went in an WOW! ... smoooooooth _AND_ detailed...never took them out again.   When I got the DSD upgrade kit  Muse02s went into slot 2...a little improvement but not as much as the 01s in I/V.   The 01's are the biggest bang for the buck.   My advice would be to save your money and forget the 1642's and *find a dealer that will sell you the real deal - not fakes* and spring for the muse01s.   I'm only messing with the 1642's in my XM44 because I have them and 16 Muse01s will be a chunk of change ... but I might spring for a couple for my input stage.


----------



## endeeinn

endeeinn said:


> I've got a few projects in the works that I need to finish before I can AB the 1642/Muse01 but I can tell you I had the same concerns as with my XM44.  The 1642s had seemed like they opened up another octave with a lot more detail but they seemed a little harsh....I liked them but the was something ....not so with the Muse01s ... they went in an WOW! ... smoooooooth _AND_ detailed...never took them out again.   When I got the DSD upgrade kit  Muse02s went into slot 2...a little improvement but not as much as the 01s in I/V.   The 01's are the biggest bang for the buck.   My advice would be to save your money and forget the 1642's and *find a dealer that will sell you the real deal - not fakes* and spring for the muse01s.   I'm only messing with the 1642's in my XM44 because I have them and 16 Muse01s will be a chunk of change ... but I might spring for a couple for my input stage.


 
 I just took the 1642's out of my XM44 and replaced with the 2132's and all is sweet again.  There is more detail ... what I though was increased high frequency I realize now was increased high frequency distortion.    The opa2132's are more listenable without the harshness.  I realize you would still like to compare them in the E1 and hopefully one day I'll get around to it.   Suffice it to say my impression of the 1642's is that they are harsher than the 2132's.


----------



## RainfallSky

Hi Everyone!
  
 I would suggest you to try LT1498 in I/V. It's one of the best opamp in I/V found on another forum in Asus Essence One thread for more than a year already. I am surprised no one on Head-Fi tryed it yet so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.


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## raoultrifan

Thanks!
  
 I've read myself few months ago on doctorhead.ru forum about this opamp and I admire their work. There is also a guy there who built from scratch the entire PSU from Essence One.


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## sstyle

Hi, guys.
  
 Is this muses fake or not?


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## RainfallSky

Package and ompamp looks very good, hmmm i see nothing suspicious. What are the source and how does they sound?


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## raoultrifan

Was akizukidenshi store? If yes, then no worries, your opamps are 110% original.
  
 BTW, it would be great if you could compare your new MUSES01 in I/V with other opamps in I/V. Same for MUSES02 in LPF, please.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## sstyle

I found a man that sell it (only 2pcs). He told that his friend bought this ompamp directly in Japan.


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## raoultrifan

Was the package sealed perfectly?
  
 You may want to do some macro images on those opamps, for a better visual analyzis.


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## WildStyle-R11

Has anyone tried Optical VS USB for a PC? Or are there any switches? Cause Even if my Marantz sounds fine with my new headphones, I prefer to run my HE400i trough E1 bit more raw power. but I still need my Marantz for speakers...Problem is both run trough Optical. ATM.


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## raoultrifan

WildStyle-R11, Essence One has optical input and not optical output, so if you can output signal from Marantz to E1 then this should work perfectly; optical link on E1 sounds perfect, so no worries here. I'm not sure if this answers to your question or not...sorry.


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## 4Real

wildstyle-r11 said:


> Has anyone tried Optical VS USB for a PC? Or are there any switches? Cause Even if my Marantz sounds fine with my new headphones, I prefer to run my HE400i trough E1 bit more raw power. but I still need my Marantz for speakers...Problem is both run trough Optical. ATM.


 
  
 The implementation of the USB in the E1 is excellent there's zero reason not to use it.
  
 Have you tried, PC Optical > E1 > RCA > Marantz > Speakers.
  


raoultrifan said:


> WildStyle-R11, Essence One has optical input and not optical output, so if you can output signal from Marantz to E1 then this should work perfectly; optical link on E1 sounds perfect, so no worries here. I'm not sure if this answers to your question or not...sorry.


 
  
 I think you have misunderstood what he's doing, I believe he currently uses
  
 PC Optical > Marantz > Speakers, but also uses, PC Optical > E1 > Headphones.


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## raoultrifan

Thanks 4Real, then I'll just quote you: "The implementation of the USB in the E1 is excellent there's zero reason not to use it."


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## WildStyle-R11

4real said:


> The implementation of the USB in the E1 is excellent there's zero reason not to use it.
> 
> Have you tried, PC Optical > E1 > RCA > Marantz > Speakers.


 
 I did that for a bit...Don't trust E1 that much.


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## RainfallSky

raoultrifan said:


> Thanks 4Real, then I'll just quote you: "The implementation of the USB in the E1 is excellent there's zero reason not to use it."


 
  
CM6631 USB audio processor that Asus Essence One use got one weakness. It works *only* with both oscillators enabled..


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## raoultrifan

Well, I'm not sure what that means, but Gungnir and other Schiit and not Schiit DACs are using it with great success.
  
 Actually, lot of Hi-Fi review magazines had review DACs with CM6631 and in A/B with M2Tech USB-optical there was no audible difference (at least for Gungnir you will find at least 3 Hi-Fi magazine reviews telling this, for both Gungnir USB ver. 1 and ver. 2).
  
 The only downsize I see to this chip is that it doesn't suport DSD128 or higher.


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## raoultrifan

Vladimir, could you please tell me if you were able to try LT1498 in I/V? I was reading a lot from doctorhead.ru (Google translate helps a lot here), but it would be great if you or anyone else who tried this opamp could share some thoughts with us.
  
 Thank you!


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## RainfallSky

Well i actually do have LT1498CN8 in I/V right now but i use them for soooo long that i starting to forget a bit what they add to sound compared to stock. What i remember when i switch, sound is soft yet all details are there, bass is tight and bass sound level is just right. Overall this opamp sound is natural and very musical. I will add that LT1498 is cheap and sells in standard dual configuration in DIP8 package, more reasons to try it.  I am myself more interested in thoughts of head-fi members. Glad you are interested.


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## raoultrifan

From your memory please, is the sound of LT1498 comparing with OPA2132 or with LM4562?
  
 Usually, in I/V stages, FET opamps, despite their higher output noise, might have some advantages of a lower input bias and also lower odd-order harmonics:
  
 "Many audio experts believe that the sound quality of a high performance FET op amp is superior to that of bipolar op amps. A possible reason for this is that bipolar designs generate greater odd-order harmonics than FETs. To the human ear, odd-order harmonics have long been identified as sounding more unpleasant than even-order harmonics. FETs, like vacuum tubes, have a square-law I-V transfer function which is more linear than the exponential transfer function of a bipolar transistor. As a direct result of this square-law characteristic, FETs produce predominantly even-order
 harmonics. " - all credit goes to OPA604 datasheet.
  
 I should have access to 2 x E1s (one is mine and another from a friend of mine), so maybe I'll buy 4 x LT1498 after all and I'll compare them side-by-side. I would like to try MUSES8920 as well, so...I'll see where I'll buy all of these opamps. All I need is time to do this, so...deadline would probably be end of this year.


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## raoultrifan

sstyle said:


> Hi, guys.
> 
> Is this muses fake or not?


 
  
 Sstyle, package looks like akizukidenshi's store from Japan: http://akizukidenshi.com/img/goods/4/I-03416.jpg. This is a well-knowen store with original muses opamps.
  
 I really think these opamps are 100% original, but feel free to take more close-up/macro pictures. Maybe someone bought them from Japan and replaced originals with some fakes...who knows.


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## RainfallSky

I switched to OPA2132 and stock NE5532 in I/V yesterday evening to remember their sound. I will compare them to LT1498 since i use them for more than a year. OPA2132 sound like a weird equalizer. Sound stage is narrow, some of small back stage sounds got lost forever, huge reverberate bass, a bit harsh highs and interesting accent on vocal. OPA2132 are somewhat interesting but I got tired of their sound very quickly.. NE5532 is a nice omamp actually.. for it's price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It have а wide sound stage but simplified and sometimes harsh too. Overall they are enjoyable. Then i switch back to LT1498 and a smile came to my face. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have not found anything better for I/V yet.


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## raoultrifan

Thanks RainfallSky!
  
 Did you noticed that trebles are a bit accentuated on OPA2132? More details could be heard, comparing with NE5532, of course.
  
 Could you please detail a little bit the LT1498, at least in compare with stock NE5532. Things like details, bass and soundstage should help a lot for all os us, I guess. Also, how hot LT1498 get, comparing with 5532?
  
 Thaks again!


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## RainfallSky

Trebles accentuated too yes but it's like there are blank space between vocal and highs where more details should be but there are none.. I would say OPA2132 is exactly like equalizer when you toying with it. Some frequencies set too high and some to low that you barely hear sounds you know should be there or don't hear them at all. Sound is too artificial, too torn.
 LT1498 hmmm. Sound stage is one of the strongest parts of LT1498. It's wide and detailed with good sence of presence. I think bass sound level is very good. LPF and Buffer add too of course but i don't want to add more nor do a want less. It cold go very low but not infra low. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Vocal feels slightly closer to you. Highs are soft with no harshness. This all is how i hear it on my modded Essence One and my system. I changed all electrolytic capacitors on sound card PCB and a bit on power supply PCB, now it looks like this.


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## raoultrifan

Thank you again!
  
 A bit overkill capacitors, I'd say.  Anyway, it look really cool!
  
 What do you have in LPF and what in XLR and RCA buffers, please? Also, did you changed input opamps from headamp too?


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## RainfallSky

LPF - OPA1611 (mono ver. of OPA1612)
 RCA - OPA627SM
 XLR - OPA627AU
  
 627's are left from the times when i had Asus Essence ST. I don't really use XLR outputs. And 627SM was reckless expensive idea.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stock LME49720 at headphone output. I think LME49720 is still the best there, thats my opinion. They still could be be upgraded to LME49720HA or dual LME49710HA. But LME49710HA only by using +2 DIP8 sockets like here:


timmeh said:


>


----------



## raoultrifan

I was looking to LM2940 and LM2990 datasheets recently and realized that noise and ripple specs are not OK at all. These LDOs are just not for Hi-Fi use, if you ask me, they are mostly used in batteries equipped electronics (drones, small electric vehicles etc.) because they are TO220 and can be easily connected to a radiator, are 0.5V LDOs and can sustain continuous 1.5A. I honestly have no idea why ASUS picked those up in favor of less expensive and better 7812/7912 (at least on the paper); maybe someone from this forum could enlighten me, please.
  
*Manufacturer's specs for 5V regulators*
           LM2940/5 NJM7805  LT1963A
Ripple:   72dB 78dB       63dB
Noise : 150uV 45uV       40uV
Essence One needs around 0.8-0.9A for the 5V rail.
I estimate LT1963A's noise at around 55uVRMS@5V/1A load, based on datasheet.
NJM7805's noise is 45uV@5V/0.5A load, but no data @1A load, so perhaps *LT1963A *might be a better option for the *+5V* rail.
 
*Manufacturer's specs for 12V regulators*
          LM2940/12 NJM7812 LT1963A
Ripple:     66dB        71dB      63dB
Noise :   360uV        75uV 40uV
Essence One needs around 0.4-0.5A for the +12V rail.
I estimate LT1963A's noise at around 130uVRMS@12V/0.5A load, based on datasheet.
NJM7812 noise is 75uV@12V/0.5A load, based on datasheet, so perhaps for only 0.5A *NJM7812 *might be a better option for the *+12v* rail, though most people consider LT1963A better (me included, especialy for loads over 0.5A).
 
*Manufacturer's specs for -12V regulators*
          LM2990/12 NJM7912 LT3015/12
Ripple:    52dB        68dB 53dB
Noise :  500uV 150uV 60uV@-1.22V
Essence One needs around 0.4-0.5A for the +12V rail.
I estimate LT3015-12's noise at approx. 150uVRMS@-12V/0.5A load, based on datasheet (with additional CFF capacitor).
LM2940-12's noise was tested on the datasheet at only 5mA!
NJM7912 noise is 170uV@12V/0.5A load, based on datasheet, so perhaps *LT3015-12* might be a better option for the *-12V* rail, though NJM7912 would be good enough as well.
  
 I ordered already 1xNJM7812, 1xNJM7912, 1xNJM7805FA, 2xLT1963A and 1xLT3015, maybe I'll have some time (this year) to change LM2940/LM2990 LDOs with something better (lower noise, better ripple rejection). I'll probably double PSU input capacitors too.
  
Till now I just added 1xWIMA MP3 on mains, 3 x non-polarized capacitors on the 3 AC rails (for +/-12V and for +5V) and 3 x tantals 10uF/35V for each DC output rail.
  
 BTW, what's the use of LM385 LM358 soldered on the back of PSU's PCB, please? Is this OPAMP acting as a protection by comparing +12V and -12V and if difference is not zero then it cancels +12 and -12V outputs for few milliseconds, until LDO's output will get stable? I believe if LM2940 would have let's say 0.1 seconds faster startup than LM2990, then some OPAMPs from I/V, LPF or BUFFER might have high DC output because of that, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong, thanks.
  
 L.E.: What's important is not to combine complementary regulators: NJM7812 with NJM7912 and LT1963A with LT3015 and not to mix them!


----------



## raoultrifan

Just realized that there is a ground-loop issue on the motherboard of E1, right where the power plug is connected to. There are 3 pins for ground and 3 black cables (3 grounds for +/-12V and +5V) and the top-right pin is not connected to the other 2 pins from the middle, so...here's a ground-loop I'd say.
  
 Here's the AC ripple+noise taken to the first DC-plug from the PSU:

  
 Here's the noise taken from the 2'nd DC plug, from the motherboard:

 You can easily see the 10mV p-2-p noise signal bumping up every 25uS on the -12V rail...I have no idea where this comes from, but after correcting that ground-loop by shorting the 2 ground pins from the plug going to motherboard with a small copper wire resolved the issue.
  
  

 You can see the small copper wire between 2 ground-pins to correct this issue. Things look much better now.
  
 I find it quite strange why ASUS didn't shorten the 3 ground pins on the motherboard and choose only to shorten just 2 of them. ?!?
  
 Is there anyone here with a scope and time to measure AC ripple & noise, please? I have the MUSES motherboard, the one with gain jumpers, so I'm trying to see if this issues exists in non-MUSES motherboard too. I'm talking about the -12V voltage which is having this ground-loop that needs to be corrected manually (a simple short-circuit on the back of the PCB would be best, probably).
 - first measurement on plug 1 (from PSU) with plug 2 not connected to motherboard;
 - 2'nd measurement on plug 1 (from PSU) with plug 2 connected to motherboard;
 - 3'rd measurement on the 2'nd plug from the motherboard with plug 2 not connected to motherboard;
 - 4'th measurement on the 2'nd plug from the motherboard with plug 2 connected to motherboard.


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## raoultrifan (Dec 26, 2018)

Hi again guys, 

 I was able to identify another PCB issue in our beloved Essence One DAC, just look at the following image:


 This is how +5V looks like on a 20 Mhz scope bandwidth (didn't even bothered with 100 Mhz bandwidth because I don't really care about high MHz noise pollution): over 5mV peak-to-peak of ripple+noise The signal looks quite strange, is like ripple+noise but also looks like is oscillating a little bit...strange enough to give me a couple of hours of thinking. 

 So, I proceeded to replace voltage regulator for +5V with NJM7805 and here's the new measurement screenshot:


 The image is much better, because now the voltage looks more like a ripple + noise, so...at least it looks like something more normal to me, but this ripple is totally not part of Hi-Fi domain. It probably looks worse than my old Pioneer 40W amplifier's PSU. 

 After few more hours of trying to understand what's wrong with this PSU, I realized that when I place the scope directly on regulator's pins scope's image looks way much better than when placing scope probes on power plug pins. Hmmm...initially I thought the +5V path was too thin, so I connected a direct cable between power regulator (NJM7805 output pin) and +5V power plug, but this didn't helped at all. Then, I did the same for Ground by routing a thick cable between power regulator GND directly to the 3 GND pins from the power plug and *I realized that ripple settled down a lot* now and signal looks much better. Then I quickly created a CRC filter to further decrease ripple, by adding a 1ohm resistor and 2200 uF cap (1800uF + 1ohm + 2200uF) just before NJM7805 input pin and here's how it looks like right now:


 (Feel free to compare this image with the first one! 2mV p-p vs. 5mV p-p)

 I will try replacing the 1 ohm resistor with another one having 5 ohms or more and if I'll be able to recrease the ripple even further I'll let everyone know.

 I had also replaced +12/-12V regulators with NJM7812/7912, but didn't really noticed much improved, just a little bit of noise and ripple because NJMs are better regulators, but not so much to be completely thrilled. I added 3300uF caps for +12V/-12V as well (without any resistors, because lacking PCB space) and here are the 2 screenshots for +12V and for -12V:


 +12V is not perfect, but at least is not so worse as it used to be the +5V initially. Anyway, +/-12V are only used for OPAMPs and these are having at least 80dB PSRR, so...I won't worry about +/-12V ripple so much. I mostly care about the +5V ripple on this DAC.


 -12V looks quite OK I'd say.

 If you do have a scope and some time to measure the AC ripple & noise when E1 is powered on and running (either directly on PSU's plug, either on the back of PSU's PCB), then please do. This way we can see if the same +5V ripple issue exists on other E1 DACs.

*Note*: All of the above measurements were done with E1 connected to PSU! Please note that when E1 is not connected to PSU's plug, the +5V, but also +12V and -12V, look almost perfect, without any ripple issue!


----------



## raoultrifan

Some pictures from my testbench, but please excuse the mess and lack of flux and time to clean up the PCB after my work.
  

 First run. PCB GND trace thick wire that proves that GND from this PSU sucks a lot when on load.
  

 2'nd run, with resistor moved from back of PCB. a lot of mess, I know...please don't kill me for this. I promise I'll rearrange these components...sometimes.
  

 The 3 final capacitors were removed, because the ripple measured on the PCB route was rerouted to them (shortest path was not meet). Anyway, I had them replaced with smaller tantalums, because lack of space. Also, a 2'nd GND wire is in place now to decrease a little bit more AC ripple from +/-12V.
  
 Thanks!


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## raoultrifan (Dec 26, 2018)

More news about improving my E1's PSU:



*BEFORE:**AFTER:*
+5V with poor GND PCB + LM29940-5 + 1800uF on input + 330uF on output​
+5V with GND resolved by soldering a couple of thick wires + NJM7805 + CRC filter (1800uF+3.3ohms+2200uF) + 2x10uF tantalums & 1x220uF SILMIC2​ 


 
 



+12V with poor GND PCB + LM2990 + 1200uF on input + 220uF on output​
+12V with GND resolved by soldering a thick wire + NJM7912 + 1200uF & 3300uF on input + 1x10uF tantalum & 2x100uF Nichicon KA on output​
 
 The -12V was OK by default, so no need for pictures here, because after changing the LM2990 regulator with NJM7912 and installing an additional 3300uF capacitor didn't made a big difference. It was an improvement, but nothing to applause here.

 Resolving motherboard PCB ground-loop for -12V GND (explained a couple of posts above):


 Installing EMI/RFI filter + additional WIMA MP3 cap + ground-loop filter (resistors+capacitor between E1 ground and power lines ground, as seen on Meier-Corda headamps and DACs):



 Resolving poor PCB ground plane:
 - 1 x thick copper red wire going to +5V regulator GND (better view on my previous post)
 - 1 x thick copper red wire going to GND from the 2 caps for +/-12V (better view on my previous post)
 - 1 x (not so thick) aluminum wire for +12V regulator GND


 Like I said in my previous post, if there's anyone with a decent scope, please take some measurements carefully, so we can compare results and see if the above PSU mods can be applied to other E1s.

 Thanks!

L.E.: In case you want to install an EMI/RFI filter inside the E1's case, please, for your safety, use an encapsulated and electrically isolated EMI/RFI filter. The one I've used in one from the above pictures was not isolated, but I had it replaced after I finished my tests. *Do not use non-isolated EMI/RFI filter inside the metallic case of the Essence One or other electrical appliances!*


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## raoultrifan

Looks like the inefficient AC ripple filtering from E1's power supply was also noticed here http://personalaudio.ru/detail/na_chto_vliyaet_kachestvennoe_pitanie_v_tsifrakh/ and here http://tweak.just-click.ru/?p=13 as well. The guy from the last link realized that E1's PSU is most likely oscillating and decided to remove the internal PSU with another one (DIY) and now he looks happy enough.
  
 From http://audiohobby.ru/dorabotka-asus-xonar-one.html (thanks again to Google translate) looks like the dual PCM1795 DAC is using all the 4 DAC outputs only when balanced external amplifier is used (another good reason to use an external balanced amplifier and balanced headphones). When using internal amplifier (LM49720+LME49600) or unblanced RCA outputs E1 takes the output signals only from I/V OPAMPs no. I and no. III; the OPAMPs II and IV remain unused (I believe only half of LPF OPAMPs are actually used). I wonder if other manufacturers are doing the same. For example, M2Tech Vaughan is using 8xPCM1795, so...perhaps Vaughan is using 8xPCM1795 in dual-mono config and 4-chips are used for unbalanced and all the 8-chips are used for balanced...I don't know.


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## raoultrifan

I really care about the +5V rail, because this is powering the analog circuits from inside PCM1795 DACs and also +5V provides power for the step-down regulator to 3.3V that powers the digital part from both PCM1795. So, I moved on by replacing again the +5V regulator with the LT1963A - 40uV RMS noise (7K & 2.2K resistors divider); didn't really noticed a big improvement in ripple, but noise settled down a little bit.
  

  
  
 Anyway, I just added a 4700uF capacitor directly on LT1963A output pins and ripple+noise decreased to almost 500uV p-p. I believe this is quite a decent value after all (compare +5V ripple+noise from the below picture with +5V from a couple of posts above).
  

  
  
 As for the step down regulator from 5V to 3.3V, that's a RICHTEK 9025; it's not featured as being low noise and it's not recommended for use in DAC applications by the manufacturer, but to be honest the noise for +3.3V is quite low (about 350uV p-p), so I'm not worried about the noise here.


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## Mach3

raoultrifan said:


> Looks like the inefficient AC ripple filtering from E1's power supply was also noticed here http://personalaudio.ru/detail/na_chto_vliyaet_kachestvennoe_pitanie_v_tsifrakh/ and here http://tweak.just-click.ru/?p=13 as well. The guy from the last link realized that E1's PSU is most likely oscillating and decided to remove the internal PSU with another one (DIY) and now he looks happy enough.
> 
> From http://audiohobby.ru/dorabotka-asus-xonar-one.html (thanks again to Google translate) looks like the dual PCM1795 DAC is using all the 4 DAC outputs only when balanced external amplifier is used (another good reason to use an external balanced amplifier and balanced headphones). When using internal amplifier (LM49720+LME49600) or unblanced RCA outputs E1 takes the output signals only from I/V OPAMPs no. I and no. III; the OPAMPs II and IV remain unused (I believe only half of LPF OPAMPs are actually used). I wonder if other manufacturers are doing the same. For example, M2Tech Vaughan is using 8xPCM1795, so...perhaps Vaughan is using 8xPCM1795 in dual-mono config and 4-chips are used for unbalanced and all the 8-chips are used for balanced...I don't know.


 
  
 Hi Raoul,
  
 Does he give out the schematic for the DIY PSU?


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## raoultrifan

Hello,
  
 Not really, but after analyzing the PCB I got the conclusion that it should be the same schematic like old LM78xx/79xx, just ASUS choose LM2940 and LM2990 regulators instead. The schematic should be quite similar with the one from TI's 2940/2990 datasheets.
  
 ASUS added a LM358 OPAMP between those 2 power regulators that probably drives them to trigger the 2 voltage rails (+12V and -12V) at the same time, to prevent any possible DC output on I/V, LPF and output buffers, but to be honest I haven't spent much time to analyze this; it was a no-brainer for me that replacing the regulators with something equivalent but with better specs should improve PSU's parameters (initially I wasn't aware that there's a PCB/traces issue). Jimmy did some great shots to this PSU: http://jimmyauw.com/2013/03/23/asus-xonar-essence-one-power-supply-removing-the-capacitors/, so feel free to check his blog as well for any possible details. In case I'm wrong about the usage of the LM358 in this PSU, please let me know...thank you!
  
 I can't really recommend you to start doing some work on this PSU unless you have access to a decent scope (1mv/div. should be fine). On my 2204A PicoScope (10mv/div, 100mv/scale) I was able too see that voltage signals look a bit nasty, but I wasn't able to see how really signals look like until I borrowed a digital Tektronix (1mv/div, 8mv/scale) from an old friend.
  
 Cheers!
  
 P.S.: I just removed the I/V OPAMPs from positions 2 & 4 and indeed this only affects the balanced outputs only. So, you only need 2 x I/V OPAMPs connected in positions 1 and 3 to have audio on headamp and on RCA output. That might save some money to people wanting to roll new OPAMPs.


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## raoultrifan

Just realized now that Mach3 was asking about the DIY PSU schematic and not about ASUS schematic...sorry for my "missing morning coffee" reply, but my initial answer was related to ASUS PSU. 
  
 No schematic for the DIY PSU, sorry, but if you look closely at his work you'll see that he's using LM317/337 and the schematic looks similar with the one from the LM317/LM337 datasheet. Honestly, I can't recommend using these old regulators when we all know that LM or NJM 7812/7912 or newer LT1963A/LT3015 are much better in handling noise than 317/337. Looks like this guy is using a nice CRC filter in front of the power regulators, just zoom into his PSU a little bit and you'll see big caps and 3-5Watts resistors (perhaps paralleled).
  
 If yo don't want to DIY, I believe you can also use eBay to search for some good PSUs: for the +/-12V NJM7812/NJM7912 or LT1963A/LT3015, but for the +5V you might want to try the TPS7A47 4.17uV/1A power regulator or at least LT1963A 40uV/1.5A (with 7K & 2.2K resistors divider in case you want to DIY).
  
 Of course, if someone will really want to make this DAC noise-free, then Per Anders might be the right person for this.  Also, DIYTHINK and another 2 guys are selling quite good power regulators on eBay (one guy is from Ljubliana and another one from Emirates). I'm thinking of buying one PSU with TPS7A47 for the +5V rail and to buy or to DIY a dual PSU with LT1963A/LM3015 for the +12V and -12V rails, just...not sure how to stick/glue all these regulators on the existing nice black radiator...will see about it anyway.
  
 Regards, 
 Raul.


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## RainfallSky

raoultrifan said:


> P.S.: I just removed the I/V OPAMPs from positions 2 & 4 and indeed this only affects the balanced outputs only. So, you only need 2 x I/V OPAMPs connected in positions 1 and 3 to have audio on headamp and on RCA output. That might save some money to people wanting to roll new OPAMPs.


 
  
 We was just talking about it some time ago on erm.. another forum. If you look at the sound card board, almost all elements on the board are marked. (Thats nothing new, i type it for other readers) So, I/V OpAmp sockets ZU12 and ZU17 are for unbalanced outputs (RCA/Headphones) and party for balanced. ZU16, ZU19 sockets are for balanced (XLR) outputs. We are in the middle of experiments (for unbalanced line only ofc.) removing ZU16, ZU19 OpAmps and put 0.01uf film capacitor betwin 4-8 legs and same for ZU23, ZU24 (XLR outputs). Easy shunt whitout solder. Capacitance value are part of experiments too. Sound clarity improvements are very interesting. You can experiment further puting electrolytic capacitors betwin 3-4 and 5-8 legs for I/V. (Do not use same method for XLR output).


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## raoultrifan

rainfallsky said:


> [...] We are in the middle of experiments (for unbalanced line only ofc.) removing ZU16, ZU19 OpAmps and put 0.01uf film capacitor betwin 4-8 legs and same for ZU23, ZU24 (XLR outputs). Easy shunt whitout solder. Capacitance value are part of experiments too. Sound clarity improvements are very interesting. You can experiment further puting electrolytic capacitors betwin 3-4 and 5-8 legs for I/V. (Do not use same method for XLR output).


 
  
 Thanks RainfallSky!
  
 I understand a capacitance between 4-8 legs, but why between 3-4 and 5-8, please?


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## wakka992

[quote name="raoultrifan"
From http://audiohobby.ru/dorabotka-asus-xonar-one.html (thanks again to Google translate) looks like the dual PCM1795 DAC is using all the 4 DAC outputs only when balanced external amplifier is used (another good reason to use an external balanced amplifier and balanced headphones). When using internal amplifier (LM49720+LME49600) or unblanced RCA outputs E1 takes the output signals only from I/V OPAMPs no. I and no. III; the OPAMPs II and IV remain unused (I believe only half of LPF OPAMPs are actually used). I wonder if other manufacturers are doing the same. For example, M2Tech Vaughan is using 8xPCM1795, so...perhaps Vaughan is using 8xPCM1795 in dual-mono config and 4-chips are used for unbalanced and all the 8-chips are used for balanced...I don't know.
[/quote]

Hi raoultrifan, thank you very much for your post, very informative and detailed 
So you think the Xonar in using just half the opamp for the headphone out and use all of them only for balanced output? If that's real that sucks because as other user here I spent a lot of bucks buying Muse/Burson opamp for tweaking the sound....
Just for record now I'm quite happy with 5 MUSE01 on I/V & LPS and dual lme49710ha for the Buffer (and I've got a couple of Burson Discrete Opamp V5 coming tomorrow), but all your finding are scaring the hell out of me!! 
Also all this problem you are finding with the PCB & PSU relly worry me.
Keep up with your wonderull technical analysis!!


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## RainfallSky

raoultrifan said:


> Thanks RainfallSky!
> 
> I understand a capacitance between 4-8 legs, but why between 3-4 and 5-8, please?


 
  
 Since electrolytic capacitors have polarity, capacitors should be inserted 3+, 4- and 8+,5-. So about why. It was idea of HIMIKATOR, he said he borrowed some ideas from Analog Devices OpAmp datasheets where on each power leg should be electrolytic capacitor connected to the ground. And since 3 and 5 legs connected to the ground, capacitors shunt each power shoulder.
  
P.S.: Last post i mistyped "partly" with "party". ))


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## raoultrifan

rainfallsky said:


> [...] each power leg should be electrolytic capacitor connected to the ground. And since 3 and 5 legs connected to the ground, capacitors shunt each power shoulder.


 
 Makes sense, despite the fact that these OPAMPs already have decoupling caps around them, additional decoupling might help alot sometimes. So, have you found the best caps to provide the best sound, please?
  


wakka992 said:


> [...] So you think the Xonar in using just half the opamp for the headphone out and use all of them only for balanced output? If that's real that sucks because as other user here I spent a lot of bucks buying Muse/Burson opamp for tweaking the sound....
> Just for record now I'm quite happy with 5 MUSE01 on I/V & LPS and dual lme49710ha for the Buffer (and I've got a couple of Burson Discrete Opamp V5 coming tomorrow) [...]


 
 Yes, 2 OPAMPs are used for RCA outputs (corresponding to 1/2 half of first PCM1795 + 1/2 of the second PCM1795) and the other 2 OPAMPs for the remaining 2 channels responsable for XLR outputs. And yes, you can actually spend half of money to try out I/V OPAMPs in Essence One DAC, but only for unbalanced tests.
 Please tell us differences between MUSES01 and BURSONs. Thank you!


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## wakka992

raoultrifan said:


> Yes, 2 OPAMPs are used for RCA outputs (corresponding to 1/2 half of first PCM1795 + 1/2 of the second PCM1795) and the other 2 OPAMPs for the remaining 2 channels responsable for XLR outputs. And yes, you can actually spend half of money to try out I/V OPAMPs in Essence One DAC, but only for unbalanced tests.
> Please tell us differences between MUSES01 and BURSONs. Thank you!


 
  
 As of now on my Xonar I have 6 muses01 (LPF, I/V), 3 lme49710x2 (Headphone Buffer, RCA), 2 lme49720 on XLR.
 Is practically a stock Essence Muses, as lme49710 and lme49720 are a "better" lm4562. It does sound quite analitycal, maybe a little on the bright side (opposed to my other 2 DAC, based on ES9023) perfect for taming my HD650.
 By the end of the week I'll receive the burson V5 for the headphone buffer, I hope to hear a more engaging sound....
 I'll report back to you next week!
  
 Just to be clear, you mentioned only RCA and XLR in your previous post, would you please specify if on the headphone buffer it make use of all the opamp of I/V, LPF and Headphone Buffer? (or is it the same as RCA because is not balanced exit?)
  
 Thank you in advance!


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## raoultrifan

wakka992 said:


> Just to be clear, you mentioned only RCA and XLR in your previous post, would you please specify if on the headphone buffer it make use of all the opamp of I/V, LPF and Headphone Buffer? (or is it the same as RCA because is not balanced exit?)
> 
> Thank you in advance!


 
 Headamp is getting the sound from the same OPAMPs like RCA outputs: 1'st and 3'rd I/V OPAMPs (ZU12 and ZU17). Feel free to eject the 2'nd and 4'th OPAMPS (ZU16 and ZU19) and you'll still hear the same sound on RCA and headphone outputs.
  
 RainfallSky mentioned that OPAMPs are actually numbered, from left to right, as: ZU12, ZU16, ZU17, ZU19; that can be seen on this picture as well: http://tweak.just-click.ru/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/asus-xonar-one-output-stage.jpg, if you zoom in closely.


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## raoultrifan

mach3 said:


> Hi Raoul,
> 
> Does he give out the schematic for the DIY PSU?


 
 Actually, looking closely to http://audiohobby.ru/dorabotka-asus-xonar-one.html I realized that there's a schematic over there. Please, check the below picture.

 So, LM317/337 for the +/12V rails and 7805 for the +5V. By looking more closely to the picture, I still believe that he did a CRC filter before the power regulators, so the ripple should be almost non-existent on outputs. Actually, looks like *he built a +/-15V PSU instead of +/-12V* (be aware that not all OPAMPs can support +/-15V!); probably he wants to modify headmp's internal gain resistors to increase headamp's output voltage from 6.6-7V to 8-9V...I don't know, but increasing +/-12V rails to +/-15V, in conjunction with a low-gain/high-gain relay and a "relay command button" mounted on the back of Essence One is something I think about myself since couple of months.  Please check Essence One headamp's schematic below:
  

  
  
 Anyway, I still recommend LT1963/3015 for +/-12V and TPS7A47 for the +5V (or something better like Per Anders low-noise regulators).
  



  
  
 Regards!


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## RainfallSky

raoultrifan said:


> Makes sense, despite the fact that these OPAMPs already have decoupling caps around them, additional decoupling might help alot sometimes. So, have you found the best caps to provide the best sound, please?


 
  
 I still use only 0.1uf film cap betwin 4-8 legs in I/V and XLR, but guys say about 470uf 16v and beter electrolytic caps at I/V sockets makes nice improvement. Let's add that each capacitor brand have unique sound character.


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## raoultrifan

Why not tantalums, like manufacturers suggested, by the way? TI and AD say that 2-3uF of tantalums + good film caps should be perfect. Only powerful buffers (like BUF634 or LME49600/49610) need 5-10uF tantalums (or >100uF electrolytics, but usually tantalums are the best).
  
 I'll probably give it a try myself sometime, but like I said before, all E1 OPAMPs are already bypassed by electrolytics, especially I/V OPAMPs; just between +/-12V there are no caps at all.


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## RainfallSky

I don't have an answer for that question since it was HIMIKATOR idea not mine. That's a wide field for experiments. Good thing it's easy to insert capacitors in socket to find out what changed in the sound. You can also solder capacitors on another DIP-8 socket and insert it like regular DIP-8 OpAmp.


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## raoultrifan

rainfallsky said:


> You can also solder capacitors on another DIP-8 socket and insert it like regular DIP-8 OpAmp.


 
 Looks quite interesting, thank you. In case you can a picture it would be perfect.
  
 Thanks again!


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## RainfallSky

Looks something like this + soldered film capacitor or it wont fit together with electrolytic capacitors. I don't have beter examples sorry.


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## raoultrifan

Despite the fact that I had improved the +5V noise+ripple from my E1's PSU, here's how the +5V measured directly on the small SMD capacitor from PCM1795 looks like:
  

  
 Not very good, I'd say, actually the +5V signal measured directly on PSU's plug looks better. 1.4mV p-p and a strange looking and non-linear signal that looks like ripple and that modifies it's shape, depending on the action E1 is doing (play PCM, play DSD, pause etc.). I paralleled few tantalums and also some KA capacitors on both caps directly connected to PCM1795, but useless: the signal looks still the same. 
  
 BTW, does anyone knows what an ARMv6-M processor does in this DAC, please? I'm speaking about Nuvoton M054ZAN from the back of the main PCB.
  

  

Core ProcessorARM® Cortex®-M0Core Size32-BitSpeed50MHzConnectivityI²C, IrDA, SPI, UART/USARTPeripheralsBrown-out Detect/Reset, LVD, POR, PWM, WDTNumber of I/O24Program Memory Size16KB (16K x 8)Program Memory TypeFLASHEEPROM Size-RAM Size4K x 8Voltage - Supply (Vcc/Vdd)2.5 V ~ 5.5 VData ConvertersA/D 5x12b
  
 Perhaps this is taking care of the software from within the PCM/DSD EEPROM from the motherboard?


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## brugis

if someone is interested i selling my unit.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/786360/asus-xonar-one-headphone-amp-dac


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## raoultrifan

On a 2'nd thought looks like I paralleled the additional caps on 47uF caps (CE5, CE6, CE16, CE18) instead of 100uF caps (CE3, CE4, CE14, CE19). The 2x47uF caps for each DAC are for VcomL and VcomR reference voltage from inside PCM1795 DAC and there's no need to adjust these 2 caps.
  
 So, I'm redoing this job now by paralleling existing 4 x 100uF/35V caps (2 per PCM1795) with additional 4 x 100uF/35V Nichicon KA and 4 x 10uF/25V tantalums.
  

  
 As you can see, the +5V ripple+noise measured directly on the very small SMD capacitor (2mm nearby pin 23 of PCM1795) decreased from 1.4mV p-p (see my last post) down to about 1mV p-p (most of the noise is actually below 0.9mV).
  
 I don't think there's something else I can do to this +5V signal to make it look better on my scope, unless installing 470uF caps (like M2Tech Young or Vaughan) in parallel with existing 100uF caps (CE3, CE4, CE14, CE19) and check if noise improves. Most likely ripple+noise will decrease a bit, perhaps somewhere around 0.8-0.9mV, but unfortunately I don't have right now at home decent low ESR 470uF caps, but I'll probably give it a try sometime.
  
 BTW, I just measured ripple+noise of my ODAC, directly on ESS9023 +3.5V pin and it's around 4mV p-p, no matter what USB port I'm using on my Thinkpad laptop. So, I believe getting about 1mV for my Essence One PCM1795 chip might be OK after all...I don't know.


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## raoultrifan (Dec 26, 2018)

I believe the Nuvoton M054ZAN ARMv6 CPU from the back of E1's PCB, that takes power from the +5V as well, is inducing some noise and ripple into the +5V rail, so the only way to further decrease the noise for the +5V that powers the analog circuitry of the 2 x PCM1795 would be to separate +5V rail by the 2 x PCM1795 DACs by cutting the power trace between PCM1795 and the +5V power plug, then create an external PSU and connect the new PSU directly to the PCM1795 +5V power PCB trace.








In reality the "trace cut" looks much better than in the above pictures and the distance between the 2 half-traces is more than 1mm.

 So, I took a NJM7805 (45uV RMS) and connected the input and GND pins exactly to the input and GND pins from the main +5V PSU (in my case would be LT1963A input pin); it's like paralleling the 2 power regulators, just the output pin from the new NJM7805 is not paralleled at all, actually I connected this pin directly to the PCM1795 +5V PCB trace. Ideally would be to have a different transformer to power this new +5V PSU, but that's not gonna happen unfortunately because there's no space for it.



 If you look closely to the back-side PCB you'll see that there's a +5V trace that starts on the power connector and ends nearby the ARM CPU. Looks like the 4 caps (2 per each PCM1795 DAC) are the last components connected to the +5V PCB trace, so it's quite easy to cut the trace and connect a new cable to one end of the new +5V rail.

 Who wants to find out how my E1's +5V noise was initially may read this (5mV of nasty ripple and noise). After resolving "few" GND issues and replaced LM2940-5 with LT1963A graph looks like this (1.4mV), but still not perfect I'd say (see the ripple). After increasing all 4 caps nearby both PCM1795 DACs I got this (around 900uV).

 Now here's how the new AC riple & noise look like (both DACs are now powered through a dedicated NJM7805 regulator + 330uF Panasonic FR on outputs + already existing caps from the motherboard):


 There's no more annoying visible ripple, right? That's just great!  And actually most of the noise is well within *450uV peak-to-peak* (I estimate that this means less than 100uV RMS 10-100kHz bandwidth). As PCM1795 datasheet provides no info about it's internal ripple/noise rejection I can't estimate how much of my new +5V PSU's noise will get injected into I/V stage, but I suspect I'm on the safe side right now. Anyway, 450uV p-p is about 11 times better than initial 5mV, so I'm quite happy right now. 

 If I'll ever have time to continue this modding by replacing the NJM7805 from this new +5V PSU with LT1962 (20uV RMS noise) or with something even better I'll put some more updates here, but to be honest I'm a bit tired of modding this PSU, thickening GND traces and cutting power traces.  Now I'm waiting for my MUSES01 to arrive to give it a spin. 

 L.E.: Looks like I'm not the only one who said LM2940 sucks: http://www.head-fi.org/t/456822/how-to-measure-power-supply-noisefloor/30#post_6323191.
 How to measure ripple & noise: http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/archives/48-08/ripple_measurement.html
 Improving audio converter performance: http://www.wirelessdesignmag.com/article/2012/04/improving-audio-converters-performance


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## raoultrifan (Dec 26, 2018)

Just reading this article https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Headphone/M.1397138394.A.6B8.html and while looking at the pictures I realized that for Essence III DAC ASUS choose the best power regulators possible for +5V and also for +/-12V rails: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/autumnmoon/whydan/ASUSE3/17.jpg. That is definitely a nice step up for those who want to upgrade from E1 to E3.

 Anyway, I found on eBay TPS7A47 fully populated PCBs so small that can easily fit into existing E1's PSU as direct replacement for LM2940-5V. I'm not sure I do have the time and the money for this upgrade right now, but for those of you that might invest time and money into upgrading the crappy E1 PSU, feel free to find and buy those PCB/regulators, resolve the GND issues (see my posts above) and I don't think there's need to cut the +5V PCB trace anymore, because TPS7A47 regulators are already very low-noise devices. Also, there are many eBay sellers that sell finished PSU's having small size, so you can swap existing E1's PSU with 1 x +5V PSU and 2 x +/-12V PSU (just take care that you can't install dual-TPS7A47 for the +/-12V PSU, because E1's transformer is 12V-0-12V and you need 2 x dedicated 0-12V to use only positive regulators for both +/-12V! Instead you can buy and build TPS7A33 for the -12V and TPS7A47 for the +12V (like ASUS did for their E3 flagship DAC).


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## wakka992

@raoultrifan
 Thank you very much for all your findings, it's quite obvious from all your 5V/12V measurement that the PSU board of the Xonar One is not operating as it would be appropriated for a high-end audio product...
 I'll seriously think about changing the PSU board, or make a fully external PSU box like the Italian guys at "nexthardware", that with the project "ASUS XONAR ESSENCE ONE+1" have done an incredible mod! If you google "ASUS XONAR ESSENCE ONE+1 nexthardware" it's the firs link.
 Is also the toroidal at fault or only the PSU board?


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## raoultrifan

Initially my Google search didn't returned anything, but when explicitly used google.it I was able to find the link to Italian project. 3 toroids used, one per each rail, quite audiophile I'd say and using very low-noise regulators will definitely improve the final sound: http://www.nexthardware.com/forum/dac-e-dsp/81615-asus-xonar-essence-one-1-ovvero-il-brutto-anatroccolo-e-un-cigno-2.html#post896110. Anyway, E3's PSU seems to be about the size of E1's PSU, so in case you don't want to have 2 combos (1 x PSU and 1 x E1 DAC) you may try building one and reuse existing trafo, in case you don't want to "repair" the existing PSU then upgrade its power regulators.
  
 Toroidal trafo is fine, I'd say, just need GOSS band around it the eliminate any possible hum to spread out to E1's PCB (I used to have a bit of hum when used AKG K550 headphones, but when E1's case was removed that noise was gone. Also, when trafo was a bit angled, even with E1's case fully closed, the hum disappeared, so I used GOSS band to resolve this for good, without being needed to re-angle the trafo anymore).


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## wakka992

Thanks raoultrifan, I'll wait for a reply on the Italian forum and I'll decide how to proceed.
  
 By the way, Burson Audio Supreme Sound V5 arrived at my home today! They are tiny in comparison to V4, I hope they'll be a good match for the MUSES01!.
 Photo and listening impression after a good couple of days of burn in... if I can resist at listening them NOW!


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## raoultrifan

Great, just let us know about the sound improvement on the new Bursons.


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## raoultrifan

Just found another E1 having a different motherboard revision (a bit newer than mine, without J15 for gain jumpers). Here's the AC noise + ripple I measured:
  
  

 ​*+3.3V - directly on PCM1795: 760uV p-p​* *(2X the noise of PSU-modded E1)​*  ​*+5V - motherboard connector: 4.1mV p-p​* *(8X the noise of PSU-modded E1)​*  *+5V - directly on PCM1795​* *(7X the noise of PSU-modded E1)​*  ​  ​   
 *+12V - motherboard connector​* *(25% more ripple then PSU-modded E1)​*  *-12V - motherboard connector​* *(3X the noise of PSU-modded E1)​*    

  
 These picture look quite similar with the ones from http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3195#post_12052686, right?
 You don't want to know how pissed off was my friend when he saw that nasty ripple, especially that one from image no. 3 with the +5V rail measured directly on pin 23 from both PCM1795 DAC chips.


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## raoultrifan

Before this PSU modding I did extensive A/B testing between my E1 (4xMUSES8920+2xMUSES8820) and my ODAC+O2 (LME49720+NJM4556) and here's what I found:
  
*A/B testing - round 1, **E1 stock-PSU vs. ODAC+O2** (AKG550):*
 Initially my E1 and ODAC+O2 were on pair I'd say:
 - Both DACs had almost the same scene and soundstage, though I had the feeling for a couple of songs that ODAC might have somehow a little bit better soundstage, but I believe this was only happening when women voices reproduction were involved and the difference was in a small amount anyway.
 - Trebles were also on pair, but E1's highs were perhaps a bit more clear and had a better definition, but difference was really small to be noticed with ease.
 - Bass was a bit powerful on ODAC+O2, but this might be an O2's characteristic after all; anyway, if I'll place NE5532 in I/V probably E1 will win here.  Transients were on pair for both devices, didn't noticed anything to write here about.
  
*A/B testing - round 2, **E1 modded-PSU vs. ODAC+O2** (AKG550):*
 After PSU modding I did, of course, the same A/B testing between the PSU-modded E1 and the same ODAC+O2, just to see if something got improved or not:
 - On my "PSU-improved" E1 I realized that soundstage increased a little bit and instruments are having a better placement onto the scene now. I wouldn't really expect that in the first place, because all OPAMPs remained the same.
 - Before this mod, women voices were sounding a little bit like...saxophone (sorry, I can't find a better comparison), like they were singing on the nose a little bit. Now women voices sound more "rounded", well defined and more natural.
 - Trebles are more clear and detailed now and have a better placement around the entire scene. Actually, everything is a bit more clear and detailed now; is not like night/day difference, but it's definitely an improvement.
 - Can't really say anything about the bass right now, sorry...just that it sounds OK to my ears, but it was OK before as well.
  
*Note*: Between these 2 A/B tests I received 8xMUSES01 from Profusion UK (authorized NJM seller, good price): 4 pieces for me and another 4 pieces for a good friend of mine. Of course, I did a quick audition of well known PCM and DSD files and also a quick A/B test against ODAC+O2, just to see if new differences will apear. First of all, MUSES01 in I/V sounds exactly like everyone else says:
 - soundstage increases and entire scene is growing a bit
 - trebles are even more detailed now, tought I wouldn't say the level of trebles increased, it's just the same trebles but more refined and with an even better clarity
 - bass seems to get a bit more punchier now, but with a very small amount.
  
*A/B testing - round 3, my **E1 modded-PSU vs. my friend's E1 stock-PSU**:** (BeyersDT880/600):*
 So now, why not comparing my "PSU modded" E1 with my friend's "stock PSU" E1? Mine's having MUSES01 in I/V and MUSES8820 in LPF and headmp voltage gain and my friend's having MUSES01 in I/V and MUSES02 LPF.
_*My thoughts*_ (after about 15 minutes of A/B testing):
 - PSU-modded DAC has a more clear sound, less grainy and a a bit smoother. It's definitely an improvement over the original E1 and it should be easily noticed in few minutes by all audiophiles and "wanna-be" audiophiles (that would probably be me).
 - Voices are now much clear on the PSU-modded DAC and Kenny Rogers saxophone is way more clear and less grainy, it's like you're blending yourself into the scene.
 - Soundstage is very good and is about the same on both DACs, so I can't really tell if there are any differences.
 - Also, can't really say anything about the bass too, because it sounds the same for my ears, so most improvements seem to be in highs and high-mids where PSU-modded DAC wins at all aspects.
_*My friend's thoughts*_ (after less than 2 minutes of A/B testing):
 - After no more than 30 seconds of *blind *A/B testing my friend said: "This DAC sounds much better! Has more clear and detailed sound overall...it's way better!". I told him that this is my PSU-modded DAC; I don't think he chew this very well. 
 - Anyway, after additional 1-1.5 minutes of continuous A/B testing he said that the difference is huge and he's thinking seriously in starting the "PSU modd" as well.
  
*Bottom of line*: me and my friend were both able to identify the best sounding E1 between the PSU-stock E1 and PSU-modded E1, the only difference would be that my friend said "it's a huge improvement" and I said "it's definitely an improvement" (I trust his younger ears, so perhaps the difference is bigger than I felt it). So, *stop spending money on rolling OPAMPs and start modding/upgrading E1's internal PSU*! Scope's graphs are speaking by themselves.


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## wakka992

@raoultrifan
 Thanks for the A/B comparison, I was already quite sure I'd mod the PSU of the xonar after your measurement. I'd really like to do an external cabinet like the one from nexthardware, but they have yet to answer me regarding that project....
 Can you guess what I'd have to do for that? I'm no technician/audio engineer but I'll do my best! For what I can see is simpler than directly mod the PSU board like you did...   
 BTW, Burson SS V5 does change things! I'm quite blown away, the difference with the lme47910HA is definitely there. Still too early for an extended review, but for now relly impressed


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## raoultrifan

Hi wakka992, 
  
 I'm glad Burson SS V5 does improves the sound when used in I/V. Perhaps latter you'll compare soundstage, details and other differences, please. Thank you!
  
 I spoke with someone who builds power regulators based on TPA7A47 (for +5V and +12V) and he'll soon start building negative regulators based on TPS7A33 (for -12V) as well, but he told me that for an easy 3-pins drop-in replacement it's max. power would be around 0.3A because of the weak heat transfer between regulator/PCB/heatsink, which would not make it perfect for Essence One DACs.
  
 So, looks like it's a bit complicated to upgrade existing power regulators from E1's PSU with the same regulators used in Essence III DAC, unless we rebuild entire PSU from scratch, instead we can just do the following almost-easy tasks:
*- resolve the PSU's PCB ground issues *with a *thick wire *from *+5V regulator GND to connector GND* (ignore the big resistor and cap from the picture) and *another wire* *between +12V GND regulator to connector GND* (ignore the 4 tantalums and the 2 red wires), directly on back-side of PSU's PCB;
 - *resolve the ground-loop for -12V rail with a small copper wire* placed directly on motherboard's connector or by *soldering a small trace/wire* on backside of motherboard;
*- replace existing LM2940-5/LM2940-12/LM2990-12 regulators with NJM7805/NJM7812/NJM7912* (or equivalents, but double check datasheets to compare the noise first).
 This almost-easy modding should *decrease existing AC ripple & noise with about 75%*.
  
 For those who want more, they can replace LM2940-5 with LT1963A (7Kohm/2.2Kohm divider) or perhaps better regulators instead of NJM7805 and can also replace LM2940-12/LM2990-12 with LT1963A/LT3015 or with better regulators as well. Doubling PSU's capacitors or paralleling more caps will also help.
 Also, cutting the +5V PCB trace that powers the 2 x PCM1795 DACs (additional decoupling will also help here) and inserting a new power regulator that will power only those 2 DAC chips will further decrease the noise injected into analog circuitry of both DACs (this is a bit complicated task and quite risky, so can't really recommend it).


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## wakka992

OK, thank you for your time raultrifan, I'll see what I can do with with the tons of info you gave me!

For the Burson I'll post my thoughts as soon as I get other 2 opamp and then I'll be ready.
By the way, the burson doesn't like I/V, they get hot really quick, I use them on buffer and LPF. For I/V the muses01 are the best!
Thank you again!


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## Hopup

I wonder how much volume pot affects the sound of amplifier? If anyone has changed it to different one I would be interested to know. There are very high quality pots around so if it would affect the sound, testing one of them would be interesting.


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## raoultrifan

There's no need to replace volume pots, unless you want to use normal logarithmic pots like ALPHA A10 (very hard to find), usually found in original E1 MUSES editions. You can also try finding some BOURNS pots on mouser/digikey; I remember I was able to find a 4-gang BOURNS that fits E1's PCB, but it was out of stock on digikey. Anyway, after pot upgrade you'll benefit of logarithmic pots instead of original ALPHA B10 linear pots (perhaps the only DAC from the world with linear pots used for analog volume).
  
 You can also instal a couple of resistors onto existing pots to "convert" them from linear to logarithmic (Google know best); that should also resolve/ameliorate any possible channel imbalance for very low volumes. Also, you can unplug existing cable from middle volum pot to RCA/XLR outputs and just short-circuit inputs and outputs, based on Jimmy's schematic from his blog, in case you want to eliminate completely the middle pot.
  
 Good luck!


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## jfgeneva

Hello everyone, I hope someone can help me.
  
 Situation: I have an Essence One  with the DSD upgrade pack from ASUS. I used to play some SACDs under foobar natively.
  
 Initially, I was using windows 8.1 and I had upgraded my set-up to Windows 10 some months ago, foobar was working still fine after the move, including the DSD playback functionality.
  
 Last week, I wanted to do a fresh reinstall for various reasons, mostly because I was moving my install from a SSD to another one. Proper drivers for Windows 10 were also released on the ASUS website (I was actually still using the ones from Windows 8, even under Windows 10, as they were kept during the upgrade).
  
 Since then, native DSD playback does not work anymore under foobar. It is important to note that I have just copied/paster foobar from my previous installation to the new one, so there should be nothing related to foobar config, as it was previously working. Also, DSD playback used to work under my previous Windows 10 installation, so it is in theory possible to make it work under the new OS.
  
 Details:
 latest ASUS  driver for Windows 10 installed
 http://imageshack.com/a/img908/6905/KbtyM9.png
  
  
 foobar plugins:
 http://imageshack.com/a/img903/1001/sE9zQi.png
  
  
 foobar config (per ASUS guideline)
 http://imageshack.com/a/img907/8092/13pb8z.png
 http://imageshack.com/a/img908/562/qK2v2v.png
 http://imageshack.com/a/img903/3139/jqyBYO.png
  
 error message:
 http://imageshack.com/a/img907/884/BqGUv9.png
  
 When DSD playback used to work, there was a distinct *clap* sound made by the DAC when permuting and the LED on the leftside became orange. Nothing happens now.
  
 Thank you if someone can help me solving the issue, I have still the possibility to play DSD format as PCM, but it is frustrating because DSD used to work natively before (and what was the point of upgrading the DAC to play DSD if I can't anymore?).
 .


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## raoultrifan

Try DoP instead of Native; looks like you were following Essence III's DSD guide. This one http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Audio_Card/Essence_One_DSD_Upgrade_Kit/Windows7_DSD_Setup_Guide_for_foobar_2000_V2.pdf should be the correct ASUS guide for Essence One.
  
 jRiver works instantly, especially if you choose the bitstreaming option. Feel free to give it a try.
  
 Good luck,
 Raul.


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## mishko

Why are you using foo_input_sacd 7.3; just get the 9.5 version and you do not need asioproxy anymore (with ASUS WIN10 asio driver)....


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## mishko

just install foo_input_sacd 9.5 and you don't need asioproxy...


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## endeeinn

mishko said:


> Why are you using foo_input_sacd 7.3; just get the 9.5 version and you do not need asioproxy anymore (with ASUS WIN10 asio driver)....


 
 I'm running windows 7 foobar2000 v1.3.8 with the foo_input_sacd 7.3 component in my E1 with the DSD upgrade kit and it works fine.   I set it up with the instructions provided on the Asus DSD upgrade web page, however, when I replace the foo_input_sacd 7.3 component with the 9.5 version it doesn't play the DSD/ISO files.  I went back through all the Asus foobar200 installation steps and still can't get it to work.  Has anyone here got the 9.5 version to work with the DSD ugrade and if so how did you get it to work?    Thanks!


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## mishko

I do not have a WIN7 computer to test the SACD 9.5 plugin, however I can tell that it works pretty well under WIN10 for two channel audio (stereo). With the WIN10 E1 installation (EssenceOne.10.0.12.16.win10) the SACD plugin works directly via the E1 Asio driver. 
  
 As of the SACD plugin version 9.0 -Direct DSD output for compatible ASIO devices- works under WIN10. I have tested all the versions up to the latest one (9.5) by playing SACD iso files as well as *.diff etc.
  
 Using the 9.5 plugin is very straightforward, just follow the instructions provided in the "readme.txt" file....


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## endeeinn

I installed Windows 10 on my media player and was able to install the latest foobar DSD plugin 9.5 without a problem.   I must be for Windows 10 only or I was doing something else wrong but is works now.


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## raoultrifan

Good to know everything works fine on Windows 10. Maybe I'm going to upgrade myself soon from Win7, though some people reports higher USB latency after this upgrade.
  
 Thanks!


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## dmbr

Does anyone know if the E1 uses USB power to "handshake"?

Any way to find out, if not?


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## raoultrifan

Hi,
  
 Few months ago I was cutting out the +5V (red wire) and device got not recognized in Windows, so it may need all the wires to work properly, I'd say. Entire USB is actually powered from USB +5V and I was trying to see if I can do an external power supply for the USB chip; project aborted because lack of time. 
  
 Feel free to work around this yourself, perhaps I was doing something wrong, who knows...
  
 Anyway, I did a small USB noise reduction circuit on a small PCB that was able to cut the noise with about 30%. It's a simple CRC filter with 10uF tantalum, 100uF aluminium electrolytic and 1uF film...nothing fancy.  Anyway, I found a couple of computer in my home able to deliver clean enough USB power (around 1-1.5 mV ripple+noise) and I'm quite OK with that.
  
 Let us all know of your findings and of what you intend to do, please.
  
 Thank you, 
 Raul.


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## leeperry

It's definitely not USB-powered IME but some USB controllers need to have something pulling +5V to enable a port, some DIY guys put a dummy load: http://grizzlyaudio.blogspot.com/2015/08/diy-solid-core-audio-usb-cable-with.html


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## raoultrifan (Dec 26, 2018)

Sort of a "part 3 moding time" after part 1 and part 2:

 Based on https://e2e.ti.com/support/data_converters/audio_converters/f/64/p/416047/1688554#1688554 I added 4 x 1uF  capacitors for Vref on both PCM1795 DACs. In theory, cleaner Vref = cleaner sound, but to be honest I don't expect any audible difference, so I'm doing this mod just for fun.



(Yellow caps are the ones installed today and actualy filtering Vref; Nichicon caps and Kemet tantalums are filtering +5V and these were installed last year when I built a separate linear supply for DAC's +5V)​ 

 I also "bypassed" Nichicon KT output capacitors for the balanced-outputs with WIMA MKS 2.2uF (leftovers after the upgrade I did to my M-Stage 3B). Bypassing was done on the backside of PCB. Perhaps JB JFX Premium Film or WIMA MKP would be a better choice, but lack of space and time made me to complete this task with WIMA MKS for now. In theory this "upgrade" might bring up some more details and might improve highs; some people noticed a clean and detailed sound after this upgrade (http://www.head-fi.org/t/632413/teac-reference-line-ud-501-usb-dac-dsd/390#post_11959763). But perhaps best cap is no cap, so according to MaestroSfai (https://audiofilifiorentini.files.w...e-sonore-al-dac-asus-one-che-risorgerc3a0.pdf) we can replace output caps with dc-servo circuit with TL072 or similar OPAMP, like is already implemented in E1's headphone amp with LME49720 (feel free to check TI's schematic for headmp with LME49720+LME49600).


​ 

 Though my ears are trying to tell me that highs might be a little bit more clear and present after this upgrade, I refuse to believe there might be any difference, until I'll A/B test against another E1 (I'll probably do it sometime).

 L.E.: Forgot to say that I've also replaced right now both buffers for balanced-out from LM4562 to MUSES8820. Still need A/B test to check for any possible differences.


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## RamGuy

This might sound like a stupid question. But if I would want to get a tube amp for my Sennheiser HD 700 will it make any sense to connect a Schiit Valhalla 2 using the unbalanced or RCA outputs from the Xonar Essence One or would I be doing it all wrong?


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## raoultrifan

Hi RamGuy,
  
 If you connect the Valhalla 2 on RCA outputs it should work perfectly.
  
 BTW, Essence One's internal headamp should already drive very well HD700. If you're going to get the Valhala 2, please share with us how it will pair.
  
 Thanks,
 Raul.


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## milosingh

HD 700 is bright, Essence One is a bit bright, Valhalla is a bit bright. So it would be a pretty hot combination.


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## raoultrifan

Well, actually E1 is more like neutral when NE5532 are used in I/V and LPF.
 Anyway, a bit of EQ-ing should not hurt much.


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## milosingh

It isn't neutral. Most people are used to boom and tizz. HD 600/598 is neutral treble. HD 650 is slightly warmer than neutral treble. HD 800 is bright. HD 700 is bright. Onwards of DT 770 and up all Beyers are bright. All AKGs are bright. Most/all Audio technicas are bright. All grados are bright. Sennheiser and Mr Speakers are as close to neutral as you can get. On the same lines, Essence One is bright. 

Differences between DACs are never huge. So even if i say bright, it would be a small difference in the overall chain. But if you look at it in isolation it is a bit bright.


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## raoultrifan

milosingh said:


> It isn't neutral.


 
  
 Have you compared E1 with anything else in A/B test, please?


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## milosingh

Read reviews about it. Only own the Muses, not the basic variant. But read reviews about both.


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## milosingh

Actually, may not be bright, can't recall everything I have read in detail. May in fact be a bit warm, but I am not sure from memory. The Muses isn't bright.


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## raoultrifan

I had blind A/B test between stock E1 vs. stock ODAC and sound was very similar on both of them and all head-fiers call ODAC as being really neutral, this is why I'm telling here that E1 sounds quite neutral to my ears.
  
 With OPA2132 or OPA1652 in I/V stage E1 sounds bright indeed, but with stock NE5532 it's dead neutral I'd say (with MUSES01 in I/V sound is a little bit on the brightest side than NE5532). I had also access to 2xE1s to compare NE5532 vs. OPA2132/OPA1652/MUSES01.


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## RamGuy

milosingh said:


> HD 700 is bright, Essence One is a bit bright, Valhalla is a bit bright. So it would be a pretty hot combination.


 
  
 Being a complete n00b just starting to get into these things, do you mean bright + bright + bright is a bad or a good thing?


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## 4Real

@RamGuy
  
 Save yourself the nightmare of trying to match amps and headphones, its a never ending journey especially if you listen to lots of genres, just EQ instead, or at least give it a try first.
  
 Voicemeeter Banana has an excellent Parametric EQ and it works great with the essence one, you can output WASAPI or ASIO. I've not had any negative results, just make sure you turn the gain down so its not peaking into the red.


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## raoultrifan

I'm with you 4Real, EQ never hurted if it's correctly and subtle used.
  
 Even foobar's Graphic Equalizer DSP plugin works just fine, at least I have no issues using it. Read more about soft EQ here on Head-Fi:
 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/265316/is-it-a-crime-to-use-eq
 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/559247/why-dont-more-people-use-eq-to-get-the-desired-sound
 In case you need decent test tones to make you headphones sound as flat as possible while EQ-ing, feel free to use audiocheck website's sinewave generators.
  
 If you need some friendly DIY hardware EQ, then start reading Frans de Gruijter's website (aka solderdude): http://diyah.boards.net/thread/92/headphone-correction-filter-board


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## RamGuy

Okay, I will hold off on the dedicated amp for now. But I have to admit I just love the overall look of the Schiit Valhalla 2!
  
 I'm also interested in some op-amps rolling, but I have no past experience with changing op-amps so I have tried to do some research and have ended up with this setup;
  
 2x LME49990 for Low Pass Filter
 4x LME49990 for IV's
 2x Dual LT1057ACN8 for Buffers
  
  
 How does that sound? It will be used for my aging Sennheiser HD 650 and my new Sennheiser HD 700.


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## raoultrifan

Most people who tried MUSES01 in I/V liked the sound enough to consider this OPAMP as being an end-game for I/V rolling. I'm one of them as well and I believe that next step might be a passive I/V, but in no way a BJT input OPAMP, like 49990. I also did proper A/B testing between 2 E1 DACs: one having MUSES01 and another one having a lot of OPAMPs like NE5532, OPA2132, OPA1652, MUSES8920, AD8672, AD8599 etc. MUSES01 in I/V stage won in a matter of seconds in all blind tests (2 people with trained ears were involved in this test)!
  
 Theoretically, what you need is a fast FET-input OPAMP with a very low settling time as I/V converter; feel free to dive deep into this by Googling around. This has been discussed a lot here on Head-Fi, in this thread and in many other threads and also on DIY forum. You might like how BJT-input OPAMPs like LME49990 will sound, but this is a subjective oppinion I'd say.  Anyway, fast OPAMPs in Essence One is not a good idea, because of the way PCB is routed and OPAMPs bypassing is done, so just stick to MUSES if you need a decent sound in your E1 DAC. You may also try LT1498, because lot of people say it's good enough to worth the try: http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=7305&st=8700 (use Google translate to read it).
  
 I don't recommend OPA2604, LT1028, LME49990 or AD797 in either I/V or LPF stage because of possible oscillations. Feel free to try those OPAMPs, but only if you have a 40MHz (or even 100MHz) good scope and if you want to improve OPAMPs bypassing by yourself with 10uF tantalums and 0.01-0.1uF film caps! I used myself for a couple of days OPA2604 and the sound got more wide and open; I really liked it, but OPA2604 were very hot to touch and when I measured E1's power consumption I realized that each OPAMP is getting an additional power of almost 1W/each (over 15W with OPA2604 vs. almost 12W with NE5532)! Scope did proved that OPA2604 is oscillating in E1's I/V stage, so I removed them for good. Same might apply to LT1028, LME49990 and AD797, even if the sound is very good to your ears: http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/795#post_8275193 or http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/7599/assus-xonar-essence-dac?page=2 etc.
  
 L.E.: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/191389-swapping-op-amps-you-have-checked-see-its-stable-havent-you.html


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## RamGuy

Hmm.. This is surely some difficult times for me as a audio rookie.... I've been offered some really great prices on Hegel units through my employer. And now I'm considering whether it might be a good choice to simply sell my Asus Xonar Essence One and move to Hegel HD12, HD25, H80 or H160. But then again, I'm rather clueless and a rookie so I'm not really sure whether they would be any noticeable improvement and worth the move or not for my current Sennheiser HD 650 and my upcoming HD 700.
  
 From what I can read online these Hegel units are seeing some really great feedback. But there aren't really that many reviews on them which make me somewhat uncertain on how much attention I should pay to them. Norwegian reviews are really promoting them, but then again Hegel is a Norwegian based company so I'm not entirely sure if I should take those reviews with a grain of salt or not.


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## raoultrifan

RamGuy, Hegel DACs and amps are playing in a different league, so if you can afford Hegel then I'd say *go4it*! If you can do an A/B compare prior to buying it would be better; a decent A/B device you can do it by yourself by purchasing a couple of switches and Neutrik/Amphenol plugs (6.3mm jacks for testing amped devices and RCA/XLR for testing through an external monitoring amplifier).
  
 While looking to inside pictures of Hegel HD12 and HD25 I realized they are using many power regulators (I was counting at least 5), not like Essence One with only 3 of them (+/-12 V and 5V) and also many small LDO regulators soldered onto motherboard + decent capacitors (20.000uF?) used as "reservoirs" and ripple softing, so this is why Heged DACs have a noise of -145dB.  Despite the fact that Essence One sounds decent enough to be considered an OK DAC with a good neutral sound, though a bit grainy, this is how ripple and noise of Essence One's +5V power supply measured directly on PCM1795 pins looks like: http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3195#post_12052686
  
 So, like I said before, go for Hegel if you can afford it, but try doing an A/B test prior to buying and please tell to headfiers your thoughts.
  
 BTW, there's no need to sell your Essence One, because for the price paid for it it's a good looking & decent sounding DAC + preamp + headphone amplifier that deserves to be placed on top of your desktop computer or at least somewhere on your desk/office. 
  
 Thank you, 
 Raul.
  
 L.E.: In case you go for an A/B test Hegel vs. Asus, please use good resolving headphones (try borrowing from someone if you don't have some yourself). Usually "brighter" headphones might resolve better than "darker" ones; myself I'm pleased with Beyers DT880 600 when A/B testing.


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## dmbr

leeperry said:


> It's definitely not USB-powered IME but some USB controllers need to have something pulling +5V to enable a port, some DIY guys put a dummy load: http://grizzlyaudio.blogspot.com/2015/08/diy-solid-core-audio-usb-cable-with.html


Might this be what I've heard referred to as "handshaking"?


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## wakka992

wakka992 said:


> OK, thank you for your time raultrifan, I'll see what I can do with with the tons of info you gave me!
> 
> For the Burson I'll post my thoughts as soon as I get other 2 opamp and then I'll be ready.
> By the way, the burson doesn't like I/V, they get hot really quick, I use them on buffer and LPF. For I/V the muses01 are the best!
> Thank you again!


 
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Hi guys, been a while since I wrote here on the Xonar One forum.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I know I promised month ago to return here for telling how was the Burson SS V5 doing in one beloved One, but many things as changed from then.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I tried them on LPFilter and Buffer with MUSES01 as I/V converter; then following @raultrifan advice I discovered that I could make a Full Burson unit as the headphone amp uses only half the I/V opamp and so I went Full Burson (1 on Headphone Buffer, 2 on LPFilter and 2 on I/V stage). [/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]All I can say is that they were a marvellous combination: perfect PRat; the bass is more controlled and refined, quite visceral (not excessively darker like OPA2134 on MUSES02 I auditioned before); Mids engaging and musical such as with MUSES01; far Less fatiguing Highs/Treble than with the lme49710HA as Headphone Buffer.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]A perfect combo.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]On several Italian's forum some guys wrote that Full Burson Supreme Sound V4 was the perfect combo for our Xonar. I'd have liked to hear a SS V4 vs SS V5 comparative (as I'd already got my hand on two SS V4 in the past) but I couldn't find them anywhere for a reasonable price so I skipped that. Now I can trust those V4 addicted, as the SS V5 is really on another league.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]If I had to choose I'd pick the Full Burson SS V5 sound any day over any combination of MUSES01, MUSES02, LME49710, OPA2134, OPA2111, OPA2107, OPA627, LT1028, LME49990, etc.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]

  

  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]And that's when I contacted Burson for praising their work.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]They actually appreciated my interest, since back in October I was one of the few to have tried their new Discrete Opamp, so they talked me about their new project: a DAC/Amp/Pre-Amp based on their flagship Conductor Virtuoso implementing the new discovery made while developing the SS V5.[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Now that project is reality, and It's been crowdfounding right now on Indiegogo at " [/color]https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/conductor-v2-usb-soundcard-8watt-head-amp-preamp#/[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)] ".[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I liked so much the Burson sound that I bought a Conductor V2+ unit last month, and my Beast should arrive it later this week! [/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]When I'll receive it I'll post my thought on the new Conductor V2+ thread here on headfi. [/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]So, Out is the Xonar, In is the Burson[/color][color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)][/color]
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Thanks for all the info and advice you've given me through the years here on the Xonar One thread![/color]
  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]If you can, I advise you give it a try to Burson SS V5 on our Xonar One, you won't regret it![/color]


----------



## raoultrifan

Thanks for trying the V5s; I'll probably give it a try myself soon, at least in LPF, Buffer and VAS (headphone amp gain).
  
 Congrats for the new V2+.


----------



## wakka992

raoultrifan said:


> Thanks for trying the V5s; I'll probably give it a try myself soon, at least in LPF, Buffer and VAS (headphone amp gain).
> 
> Congrats for the new V2+.




Thanks mate, I'll enjoy it for sure! I'm counting the days untill it'll arrive!

Btw during my SS V5 evaluation I confirmed with Burson's Tech that the opamp is designed to work admirably in all the Xonar One stage. Just buy a couple of chip and rotate on the 3 stage for see for yourself!


----------



## raoultrifan

Just received a couple of dual V5s from Burson. Now all I need is time to do a test. LPF and VAS stages is what I'm mostly interested to test first.
  
 Thanks, 
 Raul.


----------



## DMarasovic

I am glad that more and more people have a chance to use Burson V5's as I do now.
  
 Here are my impressions how V5's upgraded my E1 after years of searching and swapping :
  
http://tinyurl.com/zfj9zr3
  
 Best regards,
 Damir


----------



## raoultrifan

Thanks Damir, 
  
 This is exactly what I'm going to test soon, when I'll borrow the second Essence One from my friend for a decent A/B test.
  
 BTW, is the top cover touching the Bursons? Can you fully close the top cover now?
  
 Thanks, 
 Raul.
  
 P.S.: On my tests with O2 I realized that in voltage gain stage V5's are getting more details than MUSES8820 or LME49720 or NJM2068. I hope I'll get the same from my Essence One. http://www.head-fi.org/t/616331/o2-amp-odac/4965#post_12382477
  
 L.E.: Now I've seen your last pictures where I can easily see that V5's can't fit inside E1 without desoldering the DIP8 sockets.


----------



## DMarasovic

raoultrifan said:


> Thanks Damir,
> 
> This is exactly what I'm going to test soon, when I'll borrow the second Essence One from my friend for a decent A/B test.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Raul,
 I have to dismantle E1 for desoldering DIP8 socket. This will be the opportunity to try your mods and make measurings on PSU.
 Will be posting results here when done.
  
 Best regards,
 Damir


----------



## DMarasovic

dmarasovic said:


> Hi Raul,
> I have to dismantle E1 for desoldering DIP8 socket. This will be the opportunity to try your mods and make measuring on PSU.
> Will be posting results here when done.
> 
> ...


 

 Finally, Bursons are in the closed case of Essence one.

 To make this, the low pass filter (LPF) DIP8 sockets must be desoldered and removed from PCB.
 This is delicate operation that can damage the unit and should be done by qualified person.
 The lower front side (2mm) of the right Burson SS V5 should be sanded until yellow compound to make it sit well.
 Closed case makes a shield against RF interferences from Wifi, dect and mobile phones, and the background is darker.
  
 Raul,
 I am short of time to deeply investigate PSU mods. Oscilloscope showed 5 mV traces of 100 Hz and 380 kHz signal on 5 V line.
 +- 12 V are clean (measured at PSU socket, reference was Line out ground socket).
 My plan is to order some quality capacitors and solder under the PCB to bypass voltage traces.
  
 Essence One sounds better than ever, and op-amp rolling is over.
  
 Regards,
 Damir


----------



## raoultrifan

dmarasovic said:


> The lower front side (2mm) of the right Burson SS V5 should be sanded until yellow compound to make it sit well.
> 
> Raul,
> I am short of time to deeply investigate PSU mods. Oscilloscope showed 5 mV traces of 100 Hz and 380 kHz signal on 5 V line.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Damir, I'm very glad you did this!  I'll probably need to sand myself these SS op-amaps to fit'em inside E1, just need some time for this.
  
 The +5mV ripple is very high and caps will not get rid of it, sorry.  Also, ripple rejection ratio of PCM1795 can't be seen on the datasheet, so I "suspect" would be around 50dB and this is why this +5mV ripple makes this DAC to sound a bit...*grainy* sometimes, though the SNR and THD figures are quite good. I recommend you to get some TPS/TPA regulators as replacement for existing power regulators, if you can fit'em inside E1; at least this is on my to do list, just don't know when I'll have the time for this.
  
 Regards, 
 Raul.


----------



## DMarasovic

raoultrifan said:


> I recommend you to get some TPS/TPA regulators as replacement for existing power regulators,* if you can fit'em inside E1*; at least this is on my to do list, just don't know when I'll have the time for this.


 
 I have ordered some TPS 7A47 and 7A33. It will consume some time to do a little pcb and cooling arrangement.
  
 Regards,
 Damir


----------



## raoultrifan

Great Damir, now waiting to see the final work done! I'm sure it's gonna be just fine.
  
 If you can measure the noise & ripple somewhere on the motherboard before and after regulators replacement, then it would be great.
  
 I understand that 7A33 drop-in replacements might have issues with over 0.5A, so perhaps you'll need a small bridge made of copper or aluminum to transfer heat, because through PCB it may not be OK, but I'm sure you'll double check temps under load on the first run.
  
 Good luck, 
 Raul.


----------



## masterfuu

Did anyone compare standard vs muses edition on hd800 and advantages or disadvantages ?


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi, 
  
 In this forum there are many of us that compared STD. vs. MUSES edition. Most of us observed with the MUSES a bit more details, a cleaner sound and more space...better scene.
  
 Some decent reviews goes here: http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/09/asus-xonar-essence-one-review-english-version/ vs. http://soundnews.ro/2013/02/13/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-review-english-version/ and of course http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/1.html.
  
 Just get 4 x orginal MUSES01 and place'em in I/V stage or at least 2 x MUSES01 in case you'll never go balanced (enough details here:http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3195#post_12060151).
  
 Happy listening!


----------



## masterfuu

raoultrifan said:


> Hi,
> 
> In this forum there are many of us that compared STD. vs. MUSES edition. Most of us observed with the MUSES a bit more details, a cleaner sound and more space...better scene.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for quick and detailed reply. The HD800 is arriving this Friday and I got standard mint E1 for just $290 of ebay (maybe of one you head-fier sold it to me who knows 
  
 So that is my situation I only plan on using HD800 for now and maybe for few years. Question is if standard E1 will bring smile to my face or should I upgrade to Muses (will sound improve with muses over standard on HD800 to justify extra $$). Also reason why I ask here is because I do not trust professional reviews they are sometimes biased and paid for. I like to hear from regular people that tried this combo.
  
 EDIT: Also only plan on listen via Optical no USB. My UBS has lots of noise so just use Optical.


----------



## raoultrifan

You need to trust Sound News reviews about E1, they are not biased at all. HD800 and E1 is the perfect match.


----------



## masterfuu

raoultrifan said:


> You need to trust Sound News reviews about E1, they are not biased at all. HD800 and E1 is the perfect match.




Now question is stock E1 or muses better match for hd800. If muses is better by how much and is it worth spending extra $$


----------



## raoultrifan

Yes, it worth spending additional $$ for MUSES01, but this is not something that needs to be done immediately. Just accommodate with your new setup, then you can start rolling your op-amps. You'll have a lot of opinions and reviews on the pages from this forum. Most people found MUSES01 the best match for Essence One when used in I/V stage, some others thinks that LT1498 might do the job as well for much lower costs (never tried those).


----------



## Hopup

Can someone here explain me more detailed why I/V stage has 4 opamps?


----------



## raoultrifan

There are 2 x PCM1795 DAC chips inside working as dual-mono. For fully balanced operation in dual-mono you'll need 4 dual op-amps, but for single-ended operation you should be fine with only 2 dual-op-amps in I/V.


----------



## Hopup

Does it use only 2 in single ended operation for sure? Do you know which ones?
  
 When I'm using amp with headphones, all of the I/V opamps seem to be running about equally hot.


----------



## raoultrifan

Feel free to read the PS from http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3195#post_12068165 and a couple more posts after.
  
 All opamps are warm/hot when they are powered.


----------



## Pipppero2007

Hi everybody,
  
 I have an Asus Essence One (standard, with not modifies) and actually it's connected with HD650 headphones (I am very happy).
  
 But I finally decided that I have to give it a good couple of speakers!
  
 Until now it was occasionally connected to a micro-hifi but the results is awful.
  
 I ASK YOU: what I can connect to it (through XLR?)?
  
 Two active speakers are raccomanded?


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi, 
  
 You can connect your active speakers either to RCA, either to XLR outputs, depending on your speakers input cables and plugs. Feel free to read your speakers documentation and connection diagram before connecting them to your DAC. If still unsure, let us know more about your speakers (manufacturer, model etc.).
  
 Regards!


----------



## Pipppero2007

raoultrifan said:


> Hi,
> 
> You can connect your active speakers either to RCA, either to XLR outputs, depending on your speakers input cables and plugs. Feel free to read your speakers documentation and connection diagram before connecting them to your DAC. If still unsure, let us know more about your speakers (manufacturer, model etc.).
> 
> Regards!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 I need your help TO BUY a pair of active speakers. Actually E1 is connected to an expensive but ugly micro hifi that I hate how it sounds.
  
 I read here in this topic that E1 should be connected to active speakers instead of to another amplifier.
  
 So I am here to ask your help about what to buy.
  
 I have a middle-sized living room the speaker will be on the corners of this room (one left corter, one right corner).
  
 My genre are heavy metal and acoustic (no electronic or dance).
  
 My budget is 500 euro.
  
 I was looking for these:
  
*- Rookit RP8*
*- Eris E8*
  
 I am afraid of that:
  
*- only 2 way? how they'll sound?*
*- the sound will be too thin*
*- the sound will not be overwhelming (sorry for my english)*
  
 Please advice and help.


----------



## techboy

How does the E1 Muses compare to new stuff? Like:

Bifrost 4490 / Multibit
Chord Mojo
IFi
IFi Micro DAC2
Etc


----------



## Hopup

I bet its better than any of those


----------



## techboy

hopup said:


> I bet its better than any of those




Have you compared it to any of those?
How does it compare to Gungnir / Gungnir Multibit?

What all have you heard and compared it to?


----------



## dmbr

Has anyone tried the Essence III?


----------



## techboy

Has nobody compared the Asus essence one muses edition to? 

Asus essence one muses MK II
IFi micro idsd
Chord Mojo and a Chord Hugo
Schiit Gungnir and Gungnir Multibit
Violectric V800
Asus STX II
Benchmark DAC1 and DAC2
Grace M903
Etc


----------



## raoultrifan

It's difficult to pick the best DAC from above, so it would be best if you could listen to them if possible. Also price tags might differ a little bit, so you should check for the best price/sound for yourself.
  
 Myself I would consider Gungnir Multibit as an upgrade to all of the above DACs, but that's only me.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

I had the Asus Xonar One for some years now but sadly it broke a couple of months ago. The isolation on the power transformer melted
  

  
 Interestingly there was no visible damage on any connector or PCB. Looks like the wires in the power tranformer were poorly isolated and the isolation failed over the years. The short circuit in between the wires then started to melt away the isolation until it blown the fuse. At least that is the only explanation I have for the damage.


----------



## raoultrifan

Want me to contact Petra toroid (Iasi, RO) for you? I can provide them all the details so they can build for you a new one. Or you can search on Digikey/Mouser/eBay for domething compatible to fit inside your E1.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

raoultrifan said:


> Want me to contact Petra toroid (Iasi, RO) for you? I can provide them all the details so they can build for you a new one. Or you can search on Digikey/Mouser/eBay for domething compatible to fit inside your E1.


 
 I do have a new DAC incoming but I would be interested in repairing the Asus if it is possible for a reasonable price. Do you have an estimate how much it would cost to build a repacement power transformer? Thanks for your help.


----------



## huspas

Hello,
I have Essence one mkii version. I've just changed 1st and 3rd I/V opamps to muses01, lpf and headphone buffers to Muses 8820. When I use headphone amp, after a while I hear very little distorted sound for a very little moment. I think the problem is arise from that I use only 1st and 3rd opamp.


----------



## huspas

Here what I did. I swapped muses01s to lcf, and put 4 8820s to i/v and problem was solved. I guess we should put the same opamps in all I/Vs.


----------



## raoultrifan

1. Hmmm, this is odd...are you sure you do have original MUSES01?
 2. Can you please post the vendor name where you bought them from?
 3. After how many minutes from power-up you've heard the distortions, please?
 4. How hot were the 2 MUSES01 when you heard the distortions?
 5. Have you tried to unplug the opamps from sockets #2 and #3 and check if distortions reappear?
  
 Anyway, you should find some decent FET-input opamps for I/V stage, but usually people who tried MUSES01 in I/V stage is quite pleased and never rolled anything else after.
  
 I've tried myself my E1 with only 2xMUSES01 in I/V stage, but not for hours...perhaps for 10 minutes or so, but never heard any distortions. MUSES01 were a bit hot to touch, but it's the same temperature, no matter I'm using 2xMUSES01 or 4xMUSES01 in I/V.


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi again, 
  
 Here's a short answer from PETRA about your transformer. They are able to build you one having the following specs:
 - 8.5V, 1.7A
 - 15V-0-15V, 1.3A
 Total power: 53VA (a lot I'd say, but definitely will not burn again).
 Estimated dimensions: ext. diam. x H : 86x37mm or 71x52mm or 100x26mm (you need to choose one)
  Price: 15.60 Euro + VAT. Locking/fastening system: 0.61 EURO + VAT.
 Shipping: about 18-20 EUR, depending on the size you choose from above.

  
 Raul.


----------



## Whit3Rav3n

raoultrifan said:


> Hi again,
> 
> Here's a short answer from PETRA about your transformer. They are able to build you one having the following specs:
> - 8.5V, 1.7A
> ...


 
 Hi, thanks for contacting them for me. The price seems reasonable, I will meause which size replaces the original one best, hopefully it is possible to a fit a repacement in the original case.


----------



## Pipppero2007

Hi,
 I use it with foobar2000 and WASAPI or ASIO, I wonder, how I have to set the Windows driver format?
  
 Actually I use "24 bit - 48Khz".
  
 I have to put it at "24 bit - 192Khz" in order to avoid the hiccups and clicks that I have when it switch frequency rate (from 44Khz to 88Khz for example)?
  
 Thank you


----------



## grig

I just done a good deal buying an used Muses Ed but when I opened the case i saw traces of soldering on the pcb. I'm no expert so I don't know why. I'm uploading a couple of pictures maybe one of you can figure out happened.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









On the first picture you can find traces around the LPF area; on the second one there's traces at the bottom between the volume potentiometer and the power cables plugged on the pcb. Any help is very appreciated!

@cssarrow


----------



## raoultrifan

Maybe some macro pictures would be better. Also, you could try taking off the motherboard and inspect the bottom and look for unsolder/solder or some joints.
 Anyway, if sound is perfect, then maybe there's nothing wrong with the device and all you see is the result of some modded op-amps the former owner did. Why don't you ask the guy who sell it?
  
 Like I said before, if sound if OK you shouldn't worry too much, just keep on listening, because visually I don't see anything suspicious...all components are in the right place, though I don't like how those MUSES opamps look like, so maybe you'd like to do some macro photos to those op-amps from top and from both sides.


----------



## grig

I'm going to add some more pictures. Unfortunately the previous owner is "warehouse deals" so there's nothing that i can ask. For sure they changed the toroidal power supply. The first week's he used to do some smell but now is pretty much gone. I use my dt990 pro and for what i hear now is pretty much ok. Another problem probably is the heat, after a couple of hours is getting pretty warm on the top. I'm thinking to add an internal 40mm fan on the power supply side. brb with some pics ...


----------



## grig

Well not, opening the case there's still smell inside but still a little bit less than before.


----------



## raoultrifan

Why would you think the toroid has been changed? Can you please take some pictures of the toroid from both sides, eventually with the label side?
  
 It's quite normal for the Essence One to get almost hot after 2-3 hours of operation. This is due to internal power supply mostly, but also to the high number of op-amps.
  
 BTW, from my opinion your MUSES are not original, so I strongly suggest you to change them with originals, either MUSES01/02, either MUSES8920/8820 in IV/LPF.
  
 Thank you, 
 Raul.


----------



## grig

Just curious what makes you think the muses are not original?! Pics are on the way....


----------



## raoultrifan

Your toroid doesn't looks like the original indeed, but I'm pretty sure it does the same job. How hot is the toroid and the power regulators after about 1 hour of operation?
  
 I know about MUSES because I have in my Essence One and I've worked with MUSES op-amps recently in other DACs. Feel free to bend their legs and you'll see that bending force is about the same as for bending 4562 op-amp's pins. Usually on MUSES01/02 pins/legs are bending extremely easily; you need ti use about 20% bending force than an ordinary op-amp. Also, the face printed on your MUSES tells me that are fakes...sorry.  Hope I'm wrong...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/1119497/a/882938/elekit-tu-hp01-tube-hybrid-headphone-amplifier/sort/display_order/
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/674808/fiio-e12diy-limited-edition-version-diy-your-own-sound/615
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/674808/fiio-e12diy-limited-edition-version-diy-your-own-sound/630
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/4590


----------



## grig

The toroid for what i found online it can be an original replacement, it can be more than one supplier, or it can be still enertronix. I'm not worried, for now is working properly. About the temperature I don't know i will have a better look into it next week. 

About the muses indeed they look fake, the bend force is pretty much the same as other Opamp. What really disappoint me that this soundcard how i said before was an warehouse deal sold by one of the major seller in the world. Which is unbelievable that a huge company like this sell fake stuff. This is not a game is serious stuff here....


----------



## raoultrifan

I've heard about people purchasing online Essence One Muses or even DSD upgrade kit, then replacing original MUSES with fakes, then returning back the products to the seller. 
  
 Now I strongly suggest you to replace those op-amps with LM4562 if you can't find MUSES8920 and 8820 right now. Of course, original MUSES01/02 would be perfect match here, though BURSON V5 duals might be a better option for low-pass, output buffer and amplifier's voltage gain. I bought my MUSES from PROFUSION UK, original NJR/JRC dealer and quite customer friendly, so strongly recommended if you can't find on Digikey/Mouser.


----------



## grig

But if I'm going to replace it from my wallet is gone cost me as full brand new item, around €580, if i knew it I could buy a brand new xonar for that amount, not a refurbished product with fake muses. Which is not fair. I'm just going to contact the company to see how their going to fix my issue. Coz let me tell you something, in a way or another they're are going to fix it !


----------



## raoultrifan

OK, but honestly, Essence One sound pretty fine with LM4562 in I/V and LPF. Also, cheap 4xMUSES8920 in IV and 4xMUSES8820 in LPF and VAS sound even better. So, if the price you paid is very good for a regular Essence One, then perhaps you could keep it.


----------



## grig

raoultrifan said:


> OK, but honestly, Essence One sound pretty fine with LM4562 in I/V and LPF. Also, cheap 4xMUSES8920 in IV and 4xMUSES8820 in LPF and VAS sound even better. So, if the price you paid is very good for a regular Essence One, then perhaps you could keep it.




So basically they offered or a full refound or a 20% refound if I want to keep it. With that 20% back if I keep it the amount that I spent is equall to €200, which is not that bad, but still in case I decide to put original Muses inside the total amount will be 520€. And actually a brand new one is €595. In my humble opinion anyway the muses is not really worthed. Probably i can get the same for less. I have right now in my hand 2 Lm 4562 na which i was thinking to use in the LPF area. I don't know what to use in stage I/V. I got you're advice with muses series 8000 but do you have any idea how much they cost ?


----------



## raoultrifan

Just ask for a quote to PROFUSION UK, tell them you bought a counterfeit product from a warehouse deal, maybe they'll give you a discount. If you can get for I/V stage 4 x MUSES01 for 150 EUR I think you should keep this DAC if it has at least 1 year of written/proven warranty.
  
 For LPF you can also get 2 x MUSES02, but to be honest the most significant improvment you'll hear when replacing the op-amps from I/V. I've tested myself MUSES02 and MUSES8820 in LPF with 2 identical Essence One and it didn't convinced me to pay the money for 2xMUSES02. MUSES8820 would be about 6 EUR/each, so you can easily buy 2xMUSES8820 for LPF and 2xMUSES8820 for VAS (from headamp, nearby output opamps). Feel free to check Profusion prices or find another NJR authorized distributor.
  
 Good luck and feel free to check Hed-Fi in thorough for posts about EssenceOne and op-amps rolling, just in case you decide to keep this DAC.


----------



## grig

raoultrifan said:


> Just ask for a qute to PROFUSION UK, tell them you bought a counterfeit product from a warehouse deal, maybe they'll give you a discount. If you can get for I/V stage 4 x MUSES01 for 150 EUR I think you should keep this DAC is it has at least 1 year of written/proven warranty.
> 
> For LPF you can also get 2 x MUSES02, but to be honest the most significant improvment you'll hear when replacing the op-amps from I/V. I've tested myself MUSES02 and MUSES8820 in LPF with 2 identical Essence One and it didn't convinced me to pay the money for 2xMUSES02. MUSES8820 would be about 6 EUR/each, so you can easily buy 2xMUSES8820 for LPF and 2xMUSES8820 for VAS (from headamp, nearby output opamps). Feel free to check Profusion prices or find another NJR authorized distributor.
> 
> Good luck and feel free to check Hed-Fi in thorough for posts about EssenceOne and op-amps rolling, just in case you decide to keep this DAC.




Thanks again for you're advices. Later I'm going to add some rep. Btw anytime you come downtown in Bucharest the first beer is on me.


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi guys, 
  
 Got few hours today to do the first test of a six-pack of...BURSON SS V5-dual op-amps. Yes, a six pack I said! 
  

  

  
 By using 2 x SS V5 dual in LPF and 2 x SS V5 dual in headamp's VAS I've noticed more details and clarity, but also a wider soundstage, especially when using AKG K701 and DT880 headphones. I've also used for this test Grado SR60i L-cush and Beats Solo 2, but results were unsure or non conclusive, so you really need some decent headphones to be able to get SS V5's sound improvements.
  
 By using  V5-duals in output buffers results were non conclusive yet, but will keep on testing during next weeks. Most likely the sound gets "created" in InputVoltage stage, LowPassFilter and VoltageAmplificationStage, so these are probably the 3 most important stages from Essence One where we could get most juice out of this beautiful DAC/headamp.
  
 Temps were 51.5C on the V5s placed in LPF, 49.5C on the V5s placed on VAS and 41.5C on the V5s placed on output buffers, with case fully open and room temp around 28C (yes, it was pretty warm in my testing room).
  
 My initial conclusions are mostly related to clarity and soundstage, so here are my thoughts about SS V5-dual op-amps:
  
 PRO:
 - real solid-state integrated op-amps with very good ripple rejection factor
 - simple internal designed made especially for audio chain (that means lower THD and lower internal noise)
 - increases details and clarity
 - opens up the soundstage
 - women voices are sounding a bit better
 - definitely an upgrade over common op-amps
 - seems to work pretty fine as DC-servo op-amp when used in VAS of EssenceOne (max. DC measured was 0.7 mV, which is a very good value).
  
 CON:
 - price (though for high end devices and complete audiophiles this should not be an issue, I guess)
 - size may be too big for some devices (you may need 90 degrees DIP8 adapters to fit V5 inside Essence One or at least you need to desolder existing DIP8 sockets, so you can close the case; you can also use V5i that are way much smaller)
  
 My advise for those who want to try these solid-state op-amps in Essence One DAC: start from LPF stage first, then continue with headamp's VAS if you intend to use the internal amplifier; if you're using an external amplifier, then you might 
 start thinking of upgrading output buffers as well (1 op-amp for the single-ended output or 2 op-amps for the balanced outputs). For budget audiophiles and op-amp rollers that don't want to spend money on SS V5: MUSES8820 is still better then stock LME4562.
  

  

  
 Notes:
 - The six-pack I got it from Charles from Burson so I can test them in the few DACs and headamps I have at home, so thank you again Charles for giving me the opportunity to test these babies!
 - I've done my SS V5 compare against MUSES8820, which are already an upgrade over the stock 4562 op-amps, especially because of a cleaner sound and blacker background.
 - While doing these tests I haven't noticed any oscillations on my Pico scope, just clean & natural sound.
 - I haven't tested SS V5 in I/V stage because, per manufacturer specs and docs, these op-amps were not designed to be used in conversion of current to voltage stages.


----------



## EternalChampion

raoultrifan said:


> I haven't tested SS V5 in I/V stage because, per manufacturer specs and docs, these op-amps were not designed to be used in conversion of current to voltage stages.


 
 We don't care about datasheets.  Just pull all four Muses01 out, plug the Kangaroos in and give us your feedback when you have time


----------



## raoultrifan

Sorry, no can do that. BURSON SS V5 are audiophile quality very fast BJT-input devices, but they are not mean for I/V stages and we all know that Essence One has some troubles with some fast op-amps when used in I/V stage. Also, Burson told me I shouldn't use'em in I/V, so this is what I'm going to do.
  
 Also, we all know that I/V stage needs a fast FET-input op-amp, right? 
  
 What I can tell you for sure is that by using SS V5 in LowPass, VoltageAmplification and also in OutputBuffer stages you could increase audio quality more or less, depending on your DAC/headamp and the PSU inside.


----------



## EternalChampion

raoultrifan said:


> Sorry, no can do that. BURSON SS V5 are audiophile quality very fast BJT-input devices, but they are not mean for I/V stages and we all know that Essence One has some troubles with some fast op-amps when used in I/V stage. Also, Burson told me I shouldn't use'em in I/V, so this is what I'm going to do.


 
 Burson told you that you "shouldn't" because you might end up frying things or because of performance limitations?  Please clarify this.  
  
 Afterall, lots of people plug their V5s on the STX II's I/V including me with no issues reported yet.  It won't excel unlike it does when used in LPF but I get no weird sound or noise either, it just fails to stand up against the buffer performance.   Still better than Muses8920 in I/V though.


----------



## raoultrifan

It was a thread between a head-fier and Burson representative where Burson engineer explained that this op-amp was not designed for I/V conversion and they can't recommend it; if I'll find the thread I'll copy-paste the link here. Anyway, I'm not sure I can take out the existing MUSES01 from my I/V stage, because those MUSES01 are quite thin & soft pins (I had them unplugged for many times before and i almost broke them).
  
 MUSES8920 is FET-input and it was designed to be used as I/V converter. It works flawless in Essence One, though it's behind MUSES01 in musicality, soundstage and clarity.


----------



## EternalChampion

Oh I see.  I had a few accidents with Muses8920/8820 myself when the legs came off.   From what you're saying Muses01/02 are equally weak or even more prone to failure, which is unacceptable for such an asking price, thinking before buying that you might end up having an unusable 50 euro worth op amp just becasue a leg got detached or broken during regular swapping.    Burson on the other hand ship their modules with golden, literally indestructible contacts for the same cost..


----------



## raoultrifan

MUSES01 & MUSES02 have way much weaker pins than 8820/8920, but this is perhaps because of the conductive material that is made (perhaps too much copper or maybe some gold inside, who knows).


----------



## Mach3

raoultrifan said:


> It was a thread between a head-fier and Burson representative where Burson engineer explained that this op-amp was not designed for I/V conversion and they can't recommend it; if I'll find the thread I'll copy-paste the link here. Anyway, I'm not sure I can take out the existing MUSES01 from my I/V stage, because those MUSES01 are quite thin & soft pins (I had them unplugged for many times before and i almost broke them).
> 
> MUSES8920 is FET-input and it was designed to be used as I/V converter. It works flawless in Essence One, though it's behind MUSES01 in musicality, soundstage and clarity.


 
 I can concur that burson stated the exact thing, somewhere along the line of oscillation/heat/fried board.
 I had my 2x E1 MUSES MKII populated with 11x MUSES01. When I popped in the Burson V5, I was surprised there was a slight improvement in the soundstage and clarity.
 My only concerning factor was you can't close the case and the cost of 9x V5.
 They work kinda well in the amp section, it louder at the same volume as the MUSES01 too beside the slight sonic improvement. Drove my 600ohm HD600 with more authority.


----------



## EternalChampion

mach3 said:


> I can concur that burson stated the exact thing, somewhere along the line of oscillation/heat/fried board.
> I had my 2x E1 MUSES MKII populated with 11x MUSES01. When I popped in the Burson V5, I was surprised there was a slight improvement in the soundstage and clarity.
> My only concerning factor was you can't close the case and the cost of 9x V5.
> They work kinda well in the amp section, it louder at the same volume as the MUSES01 too beside the slight sonic improvement. Drove my 600ohm HD600 with more authority.


 

 So what is your op amps configuration right now?  Did you prefer the V5s over Muses01 at the I/V sound-wise? Have you experienced any overheat or malfunction from using the V5s at that stage?
  
 If anyone can find and post that thread it would be great.


----------



## Mach3

Current configuration is 11x MUSES01. I did prefer the Burson V5 over MUSES01 in all the other section except for the I/V as it was advised against to do so by Burson.


----------



## roiosdona

Hi! I have the Asus Xonar essence One Muses edition. Is it a good combo with the Beyerdynamic T1 gen2?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## raoultrifan

I own DT880/600ohms/96dB/mW and sound output level is good enough for my ears, so speaking only about output volume T1/600ohms/102dB/mW I don't see any issues here.
  
 I can't tell if E1 pairs well or not with T1 headphones, but after reading on this forum looks like E1 pairs pretty well with most headphones out there, so you could give it a try. If I would be you I would definitely buy the T1 and if it won't pair perfectly with E1 I would just buy a balanced headamp like Matrix M-Stage HPA-3B or a similar one that could be a perfect match, especially that going balanced is a proven upgrade in soundstage and musicality.


----------



## bizkid

What OPA is good for the headphone section to warm up the sound?


----------



## raoultrifan

​Well, original schematic made by TI is using LME49720 and I find it neutral and a very good opamp, especially followed by the LME49600 output buffer. If you want to upgrade you could try MUSES8820, MUSES02 or BURSON SS V5 dual.


----------



## Pipppero2007

I own the original e1.
I notice that the unit is going pretty warm in the last months.
Could you give me your feedback about how your E1 is getting warm after a couple of hours?

Anothe question: i can use e1 in a computer with only 3.0 usb ports?


----------



## Mach3

pipppero2007 said:


> I own the original e1.
> I notice that the unit is going pretty warm in the last months.
> Could you give me your feedback about how your E1 is getting warm after a couple of hours?
> 
> Anothe question: i can use e1 in a computer with only 3.0 usb ports?


 
  
 I've left my unit on for a whole week before and it does work in the 3.0 usb port using the NEC chipset if that helps.
 Unit was warm to touch not hot enough that I couldn't leaving my hand on top of the unit.


----------



## Pipppero2007

mach3 said:


> I've left my unit on for a whole week before and it does work in the 3.0 usb port using the NEC chipset if that helps.
> Unit was warm to touch not hot enough that I couldn't leaving my hand on top of the unit.


 
  
 Could the "warm" to be a consequence of where the volume knobs are set?
  
 I just remember that only lately I increase the volume of the headphones almost to half and the volume of RCA to 3/4 of the circle.


----------



## raoultrifan

No, power knobs doesn't have so much influence on Essence One's temperature; most heat is generated by the power regulators, then by IV and LPF opamps. Anyway, can you please approximate what "warm" means in Celsius degrees? What opamps are you using?


----------



## Mach3

I've got 9x MUSES01 in all the other stage and 2x MUSES02 in the headphone stage that came with the DSD MKII upgrade kit. Warm I would say around 35 degree


----------



## raoultrifan

Mine has about 40C after 2h of intensive play; I can keep my hand on top of the case for 1 minute without feeling hot to touch, just pretty warm (tough my MUSES01 are quite hot to touch, around 60C). Now waiting for Pipppero2007 to provide temperature of his E1.


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## Pipppero2007

I's should be around 55c degrees celsius after two hours of playing.

I can leave my hand on it without to be "burn" but the feeling is that is pretty warm.

I am almost sure that in the previous years was not so warm that's why i asked you or maybe in the past i never notice that...

Ps: i own the original standard version, no changed anything.


----------



## Mach3

Yeah but I'm talking about idle, not playing anything. It does get hotter of course when I'm listening to music.
 I'll try to get a digital thermometer to check.


----------



## Pipppero2007

mach3 said:


> Yeah but I'm talking about idle, not playing anything. It does get hotter of course when I'm listening to music.
> I'll try to get a digital thermometer to check.




Thank you.
Could you tell me what thermometer domyou use in such case?


----------



## raoultrifan

Can you post pictures with you Essence One, maybe you can also open up the case and check the inside power regulators, transformer and opamps temperatures?


----------



## RiseFall123

Really interested in compatibility of Xonar Essence One with *USB 3.0*.


----------



## zogleheros

Hello everyone. I need some advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 I bought the E1 amp (standard, not muses) a few years ago, and have used it so far only with my computer and a HD650 headphone. I'm very very pleased with this setup so far.
  
 I'd like now to get speakers to watch films or listen to music when I'm not alone. What speakers do you use with your Essence One ? Do you use XLR or RCA output ? Can I buy the Klipsch RP-150M or is their 8 ohm impedance too low ?


----------



## raoultrifan

You could go balanced if your active speakers or amplifier have XLR plugs.
 Speakers output impedance has nothing to do with your DAC.
 I believe Klipsch RP-150M could meet your needs; Essence One is quite transparent, so it shouldn't be an issue to pair it with any speakers you'd like (like most DAC actually). More important would be to pair the amplifier with the speakers I'd say.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## raoultrifan

Looks like to be able to fully close Essence One case I need to "bend down" the SS V5 op-amps.
  

​
  ​ V5 were stick to output capacitors by using double tape (1.5 mm width).
  
 Now the sound of my DSD albums through my Essence One connected via XLR cables to fully balanced Matrix M-Stage 3B with balanced AKG K701 is incredible detailed and soundstage is great too!


----------



## EternalChampion

Question to the guys who've heard both the Asus E1 MKII and MKII Muses edition (basically it comes down to 5532 Vs Muses01):
  
 Does one of the two create the sense of a close-sounding, full, chesty mix? If this comes at the expense of *some* soundstage loss, I'll take it!
  
 STX II is too laid-back and thin for my liking.  It sounds either "far-distant" or "mid-distant" depending on op-amp configuration (Muses8920/8820, lme49720, Burson V5).
  
 Btw I would like to thank whoever has contributed to this huge thread, especially *Raul* with  his valuable info such as the way E1 handles the op amps in balanced/unbalanced mode.  Imo, the biggest contributor.


----------



## raoultrifan

Thanks a lot EternalChampion! 
  
 I would say that the stock NE5532 or LME4562 or MUSES8920 might be what you're looking for, but to be honest...you really need to listen to this configuration first.
  
 Though, most of headfiers would agree that the sound of MUSES01 in I/V stage, mostly because the details, clarity and soundstage.
  
 BTW, what do you think about trying a bit of crossfeed (10-15% perhaps)?


----------



## EternalChampion

So you think crossfeed might help to bring things a bit more forward?  How do I activate this I have no idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My audio chain is this: Windows 7 x64 (foobar) --> Asus STX II --> Burson SL MK2 --> HD600


----------



## raoultrifan

You should find a plugin/extension like this one: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_meiercf or something else, depending on your taste. In case you like it, then you could aim to a headamp that already contains crossfeed circuitry inside.


----------



## EternalChampion

Downloaded the Meier crossfeed and activated it in the foobar.  It makes a subtle change, but not for the better.
  
 Anyways Raul, how would you describe your experience with E1,  is it "in your face" type of audio or somewhat distant?


----------



## raoultrifan

With original opamps it sounds really flat, but I really can't say that it's "in your face" or not.
  
 What headphones are you using now, please?


----------



## EternalChampion

Like I said above, Sennheiser HD6000.
  
 May I ask if the same op amps you've used on different circuits adjusted on an entirely new sound signature or they kept at least some character?
  
 I'm saying this because ALL the op-amps that have tested on the STX II including the Burson V5 share very similar characteristics including "flaws" such as "congestion" due to the distant audio.   All my assumptions are based on a PC soundcard though.  Maybe if I just plug then onto some hefty external circuit such as the E1 every op amp will excel and show its true capacity?
  
 What do you think?


----------



## raoultrifan

Usually, op-amps preserve their sound character if swapped from one circuit to another, but audible differences between one op-amp to another are very subtle and can be mostly "discovered" in A/B tests and not by using audio memory.
  
 Differences between op-amps could be much higher if circuitry around the op-amp is not perfectly designed, especially decoupling techniques and also power source and PCB design as well; so with minimal decoupling or a "not so well regulated" power supply differences between op-amps might be audible by most people, because of op-amps ripple rejection factor that differs from one op-amp to another.
  
 In case of Essence One, the PSU is not perfect at all, PCB traces seems not to be so perfect too, but decoupling is OK (about the same schematics recommended by Texas Instruments), though some head-fiers said that increasing decoupling capacitors improved soundstage and clarity (most likely because of PSU's flaws).
  
 May I suggest to "test" your headphones in a different DAC/headamp and see if the sound is more likely for you?
  
 Also, after reading http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-600/reviews I got the feeling that HD 600 has quite of a soundstage and maybe trying different headphones you'll find a pair that will match better with Essence One. From what I've read, HD800 matches perfectly with E1, but "de gustibus non est disputandum".


----------



## EternalChampion

Thanks for the input.
  
 Currently I'm in search of a step-up dac (or dac/head amp combo it doesn't matter) that will allow me to give a try to various op-amps and accepts the Burson V5 duals to pair with Soloist SL MKII amp which I'm planning to keep for a long time.   My budget is somewhere there,  at about 500-600 Euros max.   Essence One MKII seems to be an ideal candidate for that price point.
  
 From your personal experience and technical knowledge , do you have any other device in mind to recommend which has equally good or better PSU, PCB layout etc than the E1, for similar cost?


----------



## raoultrifan

I don't have much experience with lot of DACs, but Emotiva Stealth DC-1 (no DSD) comes into my mind now, as the PSU seems to be better and from tests and reviews I've seen most people seems to be pleased with this DAC. Also, Emotiva customer service & support seems a bit better than ASUS, but maybe this is just my impression. Also, a nice & decent PSU which is correctly shielded would be NuForce DAC-80 and NuForce DAC-100, though based on http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/nuforce17/6.html "Essence One" might sound better from some perspectives.
  
 For a bit more amount of money Schiit Bifrost Multibit or Schiit Gungnir (both unable to play DSD) might be considered un upgrade for Essence One, but I'm only aware of their electronics from inside and other technical aspects, so you still need to listen to them prior to the final purchase. Myself I'd love to own and test a Gungnir Multibit, but it's kind of expensive for my needs. 
  
 You may need to read many DAC reviews from Head-Fi to make the right decision, though Essence One MKII is quite a decent DAC, especially if you can upgrade it later with 4xMUSES01 for the I/V stage.


----------



## EternalChampion

Ok thanks again.  I'll do my research even though something tells me I'll end up with the E1 because I have 6x V5 duals right now 3 of which resting unused next to me.   Not a good picture.


----------



## raoultrifan

I do recommend you 4xMUSES01 for the I/V stage; it has been proven by many headfiers that it's a good improvement over the soundstage and clarity. Also, MUSES8890 might be considered, financiary speaking, but improvement over the stock NE5532 may not be heared by many.
  
 Use your existing SS V5 dual in LPF stage (2xV5), in headamp VAS (2xV5) and in output buffers (2xV5 for balanced/XLR or 1xV5 for unbalanced/RCA outputs, depending on your external amplifier, if any). You may want to purchase V5 wire extenders from Burson for each SS V5 op-amp you want to insert in E1, otherwise you'll not be able to close E1's case.


----------



## EternalChampion

Burson amp is all unbalanced in and out.  Given also that I'll be using 2 x SS V5 in LPF,  spending extra for the Muses Edition is not really an option.   Shall I decide to get the E1 it's gonna be the standard version.  And then I go on from there trying other op amps, if necessary.
  
 Btw, to answer: Yes, I have tested the STX II with a couple of other headphones such as Sennheiser HD202 and Denon D1100.  Especially the latter are much different, being closed and bassy.  Result was the same.  Other than having the headphones doing their own stuff to the music, distance and congestion was portrayed in the same way.  So this is clearly a soundcard's issue.  Distant audio might not be considered to be a flaw but congestion is.
  
 I still own an old Creative SB XtremeGamer soundcard from 2009 and my first computer build.  Believe me,  it doesn't feel that "compressed".   In fact, I also prefer its frequency transition even more than the Asus card.  It loses in all other aspects though.


----------



## Pipppero2007

Hi guys,
  
 need your help.
  
 I switch from Win 7 to Win 10 and I have a problem with ASIO - BIT PERFECT in foobar2000.
  
 In Win 7 when I pause the music the DAC stays with "BIT PERFECT" on.
  
*In Win 10 when I pause the DAC loses the "BIT PERFECT", and the led become off.*
  
 It's a problem because, in Win 7, if I pause and play everything is fine and silent but* when I pause and play in Win 10 I hear glitch and clicks from the speakers because the DAC disconnect and reconnect itself to BIT PERFECT.*
  
 When I pause the DAC must KEEP the connection and the BIT PERFECT must be ON.
  
 When I stop, ok, it must lost the connection but it was also in this way in Win 7.
  
 HELP.


----------



## raoultrifan

Try making your Essence One the default DAC for playback. Usually you're loosing BitPerfect when you pause the playback because another DAC (maybe the internal from the motherboard) is default.


----------



## Pipppero2007

raoultrifan said:


> Try making your Essence One the default DAC for playback. Usually you're loosing BitPerfect when you pause the playback because another DAC (maybe the internal from the motherboard) is default.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 thank you very much for the rapid answer.
  
 When I turn on the DAC it become immediately the default for everything (not only for foobar).
  
 Could you tell me if you use Win 10 and your feedback about?


----------



## raoultrifan

I'm using Win7, sorry, but I don't see reasons not to be OK under Win10 as well.


----------



## Pipppero2007

raoultrifan said:


> I'm using Win7, sorry, but I don't see reasons not to be OK under Win10 as well.


 
  
 I don't want to leave Win 10 and back to Win 7, mainly because I have a new laptop and I think Win 10 will use it better.
  
 ALSO, I don't want a dual boot, because is not easy to switch OS only for listening music.
  
 I want to stuck with Win 10 but I am angry about this different behavior of foobar and ASIO.
  
 Anyone can help me to isolate the issue?
  
 1) Is foobar2000 the problem?
 2) Is the Win 10 driver of ASUS the problem?
 3) Is Win 10 itself the problem?
  
 I want that just like Win 7 when I PAUSE music the connection between PC and DAC should be remain (LED BIT PERFECT ON).
  
 I totally hate that crappy sound, I listen into headphones, i play PAUSE often, I dislike that ugly sounds!
  
 Overall, foobar2000 SHOULD PLAY SILENCE when in pause to keep the connection alive?


----------



## Pipppero2007

May somebody who has WINDOWS 10 and FOOBAR2000 tell me the behaviour about bit perfect after PAUSE and after STOP of foobar?
  
 Thank you in advance...


----------



## endeeinn

All I can tell you is that after upgrading to Win 10 my media server running foobar 2000 it experienced drop-outs, fades, and stops.   Two weeks later I went back to Win 7 where everything runs without any issues and never looked back.


----------



## Mach3

pipppero2007 said:


> May somebody who has WINDOWS 10 and FOOBAR2000 tell me the behaviour about bit perfect after PAUSE and after STOP of foobar?
> 
> Thank you in advance...


 
 I've tried both the foo_dsd_asio and the ASUS_asio plugin. Both switch to 44.1 LED when I pause or stop. But there no noise or weird annoying sound when I click play again. As soon as I click play the bit perfect LED instantly comes back on.


----------



## damier

Heya raoultrifan,
  
 Out of curiosity, what have you done with those resistors on the power input to the audio board as displayed below?
 I've been reading through this thread and will be modding my E1 (SS V5's on the way too) to resolve the ground issues
 Had my E1 since 2012 or so, so worth a go before moving on to a more expensive DAC
  
 Quote:


raoultrifan said:


> Looks like to be able to fully close Essence One case I need to "bend down" the SS V5 op-amps.
> 
> 
> ​
> ...


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi, 
  
 I believe they are electrolytic caps and also a non-polarized cap and I had them used to decrease the ripple and noise injected by the power cable that passes over the toroidal transformer.
  
 For the SS V5 please *use shorter wires* than I used in my picture! If you can do the wires at most 2cm long it would be best.
  
 Regards!


----------



## damier

Hm, so you reckon a better insulated cable passing the transformer may also be good? I've read of people swapping out the cabling. As for the V5's, I purchased Burson's extenders which are 3cm... but will take heed in case a mod may be preferable.
  
 Also, has anyone tried rolling Burson's SS V5i's? https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/
 Read some reviews that paint them in a good light


----------



## endeeinn

Be careful of reviews.   I've had bad luck with the V5i's, they don't work in every application.   I used them in my Marchand XM44 (installed properly, double-triple checked prior to power-on) and there was no sound at all from either channel.  I feared damage to the XM44 but after replacement of the originals all was normal.   I emailed Burson and they never replied or listed the XM44 as one of the applications that the V5i is not suited for.    My intent was to try them in my E1 as well but after my experience with the XM44 I'm not about to take a chance.


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi, 
  
 I'm using with success 4xV5i in LPF and BUFFER in my DIY MUSES MKii and it works great, though I have no time for extensive review for the moment. I intend to also test them in the VAS stage for the headphone amplifier.
  
 Indeed, on my Matrix M-Stage HPA-3B I had issues using the V5i opamps (hiss noise on both channels), but I will probably retry this test in a couple of months, after a complete burn-in.
  
 So, feel free to test the V5i in LPF, VAS and output buffer without worries, just don't try them in I/V stage.
  
 Cheers, 
 Raul.


----------



## Mach3

raoultrifan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm using with success 4xV5i in LPF and BUFFER in my DIY MUSES MKii and it works great, though I have no time for extensive review for the moment. I intend to also test them in the VAS stage for the headphone amplifier.
> 
> ...


 
 How do the V5i vs the V5 in term of sound on the E1. Which do you prefer?


----------



## raoultrifan

I like the V5 more, but I'm subjective for the moment. When I'll A/B against something I'll post more updates here.
  
 Anyway, V5 was working in every device I've tested, but I can't say the same about V5i; anyway, when V5i is working fine then it seems pretty decent solid-state opamp.


----------



## interference

Am I the only experiencing hum/buzz induced on the headphone output while a near mobile phone is doing LTE traffic? Apparently it disappears if I force the phone to work on 3.5G network and affects both original and MKII version of the Essence One.


----------



## raoultrifan

I usually don't keep phones around my Hi-Fi gear, so I've never tested this, sorry.
 Will probably try it out sometimes and let you know.


----------



## damier

@interference - when you say "near", how close is it really? I typically have one within a meter and don't or haven't hear any anomalies.
 What network are you on (ie. can you tell us the frequencies?)
  
@raoultrifan - done the grounding mods. Don't have any measuring equipment to determine statistically, but I feel separation is a little better (ie. more definition in music that I wasn't picking up before). Not exactly an accurate benchmark I know. But I'm happy so far.
  
 If I may, what resource do you use for your materials (wire, solder, etc) -- NZ has some **** and/or expensive resources. Even teflon-insulated wire is either hard to come by or expensive
  
 I'm running MUSES01 | I/V, SS V5 | LPF, MUSES02 | Headphone, RCA -- rather expensive collectively I guess


----------



## raoultrifan

damier said:


> If I may, what resource do you use for your materials (wire, solder, etc) -- NZ has some **** and/or expensive resources. Even teflon-insulated wire is either hard to come by or expensive
> 
> I'm running MUSES01 | I/V, SS V5 | LPF, MUSES02 | Headphone, RCA -- rather expensive collectively I guess


 
  
 Hi, 
  
 I have 2 cellphones around 0.4-0.5 m above E1 DAC (my DAC it's on top of the desktop case) and no hum or strange noises occurs, even with top case open.
  
@damier, what do you mean by "resource materials", please? I usually purchase stuffs from TME, Mouser, Digikey and other similar. 
  
 BTW, I see you have SS V5 running in your LPF, could you please share your findings? Right now I'm swapping V5 and V5i in both LPF and VAS (headphones out) and I'm doing some compares, but it would be great if you could share something here please.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## interference

@damier I am talking less than 50 cm from the DAC and/or the headphone cable. My hypothesis is that the cable is acting as an antenna so it is the distance from the cable that should matter more than the distance from the DAC.
  
 I am living in Italy so 800/1600/2800 MHz for LTE against 900/2100 MHz for UMTS, however I am not sure there is a way to check which frequency the phone is using at a given moment.
  
 I have no problems in keeping my phone away from the headphone cable, however I am a bit worried it may pick up other RF sources.
  
 Also I don't have other LTE devices around so I cannot check if the issue is specific to my Sony Z1 Compact.
  
 Thanks @raoultrifan for the feedback


----------



## raoultrifan

Hello,
  
 I've done some tests with my *ASUS Essence One MUSES BURSON MKii* DAC by upgrading existing opamps with V5i received recently from BURSON (thank you BURSON for providing me the chance to make this test).
 - WASAPI was used instead of ASIO (don't trust ASIO for this test)
  
*Music used for the tests:*
 - ATB
 - Kenny G.
 - Best of Chesky
 - Head-Fi And HDtracks
 - Ultimate Demo Disk
  
*Results:*
 - When using 2 x V5i in Low Pass Filter and 2 x V5i in Voltage Amplification Stage (from headphone amplifier) difference was noticed from the very first second:

  first impression was like volume is louder than before (which is not, measured three times)
  stage is larger and layering is better
  bass seems a bit more "rounded", with better definition, a good improvement for "bass shy" headphones (ATB bass and imaging can really shine with V5i opamps!)
  Kenny G.'s saxophone stands out a bit more with V5i and layering is way better, same I can say about staging/imaging
 - When using 2 x V5i in output buffer I couldn't find a real difference to talk about, although it's been a small difference in sound, but can't explain it right now.
  
 I've also attached some pictures to reflect that using V5i opamps in LPF, VAS and also output buffers is not inducing any oscillations or odd harmonics (tough I don't have access to Audio Precision equipment, I've used a decent scope to test this). Screenshots where taken while using my PicoScope 2204A with default probe connected to Essence One headphones output, -3dB test signals and volume button to about 10 o'clock.
  

 *No oscillations up to 10 MHz bandwidth while 1 KHz signal applied*
 *20 Hz applied, 24 KHz bandwidth, no strange harmonics occurs*
   *1 KHz applied, 24 KHz bandwidth, no strange harmonics occurs*
 *20 KHz applied, 24 KHz bandwidth, no strange harmonics occurs*
    
*Those V5i solid-state opamps are looking so beautiful!*
 Regards, 
 Raul.
  
*P.S.:* V5 is even more detailed when used in LPF & VAS, stage is about the same...perhaps a slight advantage to V5, layering would be a slight advantage to V5 too, but this really depends on the track you're choosing.


----------



## damier

raoultrifan said:


> @damier, what do you mean by "resource materials", please? I usually purchase stuffs from TME, Mouser, Digikey and other similar.
> 
> BTW, I see you have SS V5 running in your LPF, could you please share your findings? Right now I'm swapping V5 and V5i in both LPF and VAS (headphones out) and I'm doing some compares, but it would be great if you could share something here please.
> 
> Thank you!


 
  
@raoultrifan - you mostly answered it there  -- by "resources" I mean where do you acquire your stuff.
 Very frustrating trying to source things here in New Zealand. Either stock doesn't exist or whose price is exorbitant.
  
 I just ordered the V5i's - so they're due in a week. I also recently purchased the HD800's and they'll be here around the same time.
 I'll do some proper A/B comparisons afterward. My flatmate actually just acquired a stock Essence One, so I have that available to me as well
  
 Currently I only have the one pair of cans; Sennheiser HD650's, so not a strong inventory.
  
 damier


----------



## raoultrifan

People here http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/09/asus-xonar-essence-one-review-english-version/ and here http://archimago.blogspot.ro/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html and here http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-or-why-actually-listening-gear-important-page-2#vSZl8g8WGeLupE2I.97 and here https://headmania.org/2014/05/16/asus-xonar-essence-one-review/ seem to like how Essence One pairs with HD800, so I think it's a very wise choice for the headphones. 
  
 If you'll be able to purchase 4 x SS V5i it would be perfect, because for best results you really need to replace LowPass and VoltageGain opamps (a total of 4 pieces). BTW, how did you managed to fit the SS V5 in the LowPass, please?


----------



## damier

raoultrifan said:


> People here http://soundnews.ro/2011/09/09/asus-xonar-essence-one-review-english-version/ and here http://archimago.blogspot.ro/2013/02/measurement-asus-xonar-essence-one.html and here http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-or-why-actually-listening-gear-important-page-2#vSZl8g8WGeLupE2I.97 and here https://headmania.org/2014/05/16/asus-xonar-essence-one-review/ seem to like how Essence One pairs with HD800, so I think it's a very wise choice for the headphones.
> 
> If you'll be able to purchase 4 x SS V5i it would be perfect, because for best results you really need to replace LowPass and VoltageGain opamps (a total of 4 pieces). BTW, how did you managed to fit the SS V5 in the LowPass, please?


 

@raoultrifan - thanks for the assurance. I read a few reviews myself that concluded they were a sweet pairing 
  
 I just bought two V5i's as I still have the V5's -- I was planning on keeping the V5's in LPF and replacing the V+Gain MUSES02 with the newer V5i's. That would be best, no?
  
 Regarding how I made the V5's fit; Burson sell 3cm extenders. They can be found on their website: https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/ -- quite convenient


----------



## Fegefeuer

Any fixes for the stuttering at the beginning of a track (until it takes proper control) under ASIO+Foobar2000?


----------



## raoultrifan

Never had stuttering on LAN, so can't help much here, sorry. I've used my ASUS E1 under 2 Windows desktops, at least 3 Windows laptops and 1 iMac and 1 MacBookPro and everything went smooth. I was listening from local disc, but also from SMB/network and from UPnP location (RaspberryPi) via Foobar plugin and unless I was using huge DSD files and b/g Wi-Fi playback was perfect; on N Wi-Fi had no issues, but with b/g Wi-Fi connection sometimes I had some issues, but only under OSX and when 2 walls were standing between my Mac and the distant Wi-Fi router.
  
 Could you please tell us more about your system, location of files, type of files, Foobar settings and buffering and perhaps ASUS and ASIO drivers versions and also operating system used. Let us know if you're wired or on Wi-Fi.


----------



## Pipppero2007

Same problem here but only with W10 and 3.0 port.

My old pc with W7 and 2.0 no issues.

I dont use asio anymore and i am angry.


----------



## RiseFall123

​Hi guys,
  
 I am revisiting my entire setup that now is:
  
 - *Denon PMA 900V*
 - *B&W 685 S2*
 - Seinn HD650
 - Supra Classic powercables
  
 and of course our Essence One DAC (*the original version*).
  
 I am here to ask about its *RCA outputs *not about the headphone amp that I still find excellent.
  
 Since I cannot test other dacs I want to ask you how our DAC (I repeat, the original untouched version) is still valid today as DAC.
  
 I think that it's a little "bassy" because sometimes I use my iPhone directly to the Denon and the bass are slightly less.
  
 But for other parameters... can't say.
  
*E1 is still a good DAC today?*
  
 How E1 can be better (with modifies) today?
  
 Can I have it less bassy with some modifies?
  
 PS: in this review they destroy him http://www.whathifi.com/asus/xonar-essence-one/review


----------



## raoultrifan

I don't think whathifi destroyed the E1, but I suggest you to read archimago, 6moons, stereophile, soundnews, innerfidelity, headmania, qobuz and headfonia reviews and also all the reviews from this forum. WhatHiFi is not a real source for audiophile review...this is more for the masses. 
  
 -1) I would suggest you to purchase MUSES01 for the I/V stage, MUSES02 or BURSON SS V5i for LowPass and also BURSON SS V5i for VoltageGain. Buffers might get upgraded to LME49720 or better to MUSES8820.
  
 -2) Power regulators could be also upgraded to something better (NJM7812/7912 LT1963/3015 or something better); you should also check some of my posts regarding the ground plane issues that can be easily resolved by DIY.
  
 -3) You could also upgrade it to MKii by installing a DSD compatible EEPROMl this will also resolve the upsampling high freq. roll-off that regular/stock E1 has it by default.
  
 First step is highly recommend and besides the money it doesn't involves much work to do or special knowledge, just some time and lot of fun. 
  
 You really need to dig into this forum a lot, because many headfiers posted great reviews of their work about E1 here.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## RiseFall123

OMG, thank you for the fast and very deep answer... firstly I will read all these reviews because I think I didn't read at all, and then, I will back to define my "situation"!


----------



## shyamelge

I am touching base on opamps after two years or so. 
  
 Could someone enlighten me which new opamps have appeared in the last two years which are on par or have a competitive edge over Muses (1/2) and Opa827, LME49600.


----------



## raoultrifan

You can use BURSON SS V5i in LPF and GAIN stages, just check out http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3375#post_12959422.
  
 For I/V i don't trust so much the PCB of E1, so can't recommend you to try other opamps than MUSES01, unless you have access to a decent scope to do some testing.
  
 LME49600 should not be replaced ever, sorry; it's way much easier to use an external balanced amplifier if you really want to upgrade the amp part.


----------



## shyamelge

Thanks raoul... for your inputs. 
  
 I just opened essence one and found that I am currently using following op amps set up:
  
 I/V: L49990x4
 LPF: OPA827x2
 HP section: OPA827x2
 RCA: OPA827x1
 Balanced out: 4562NA (though I am not currently using this output)
  
 Kindly suggest some better options (other than Muses and Burson) based on your experience.


----------



## raoultrifan

I/V: MUSES8920
 LPF: MUSES8820
 VOLTAGE-GAIN: MUSES8820


----------



## shyamelge

Do you think Muses8920 would perform better than L49990 at I/V section? I can explore this option as 8920s are relatively cheaper than 01/02.


----------



## raoultrifan

MUSES8920 is J-FET input opamp designed for I/V converters, so it should sound as a wire with gain. 
 If you don't have access to a decent scope I can't suggest you to install LME49990 in I/V or LPF, sorry.


----------



## shyamelge

raoultrifan said:


> MUSES8920 is J-FET input opamp designed for I/V converters, so it should sound as a wire with gain.
> If you don't have access to a decent scope I can't suggest you to install LME49990 in I/V or LPF, sorry.


 
 kindly clarify what do you mean by "decent scope" in this context.


----------



## shyamelge

Is OPA827 suitable for I/V section?
  
 How about using OPA827 in all sections?


----------



## raoultrifan

Well...>1MHz scope should probably do, just use a scope and check for oscillations. You can also apply some test tones and check FFT on output, see if it looks fine.


----------



## raoultrifan

I'm sure it's very good for I/V, you just need to check the entire forum for others that have done it before. In this thread lot of people modded their E1 and all of them settled down to MUSES01 and MUSES02 and recently BURSON or other high end opamps.


----------



## Leonarfd

Hey, my Essence One just died and im getting the money back instead of repair, since its to expensive and the store dont have any models to replace it with. And since the prices has gone up alot since i bought it im stuck with alot less money than something similar is costing.
  
 Anyone know of a good sounding replacement that have a good amp/dac with balanced xlr out to speakers? 
  
 Can stretch it to about 600USD
 It either needs to shut of the pre outs xlr/rca when I plug in a headphone or to have knob.
  
 Been thinking about the new Jotunheim or something like PARASOUND ZDAC V2 or Cambride Audio Dacmagic Plus(might be to weak amp wise)


----------



## raoultrifan

Sorry to hear about it, Leonarfd. Wondering what issues occurred, what happened to your E1?
  
 I would suggest you to get a bit more money and buy a TEAC UD-503, else...Jotunheim could be a very good replacement.


----------



## Leonarfd

Very little available in Norway that is not way to expensive, but if I use the jotunheim I need to get remote control outlet to turn of the active speakers. PARASOUND ZDAC V2 got the volume knob to adjust the pre outs, but it is not as transparent as the Essence one. to bad its no place where I can buy it in Norway would bought it again, Asus products is very cheap here aswell. Costed 2700kr (about 260usd) 3 years ago.
  
 As to what happened, the right side XLR out has been iffy the last year not being able to turn of the signal completely even with the knob at zero. Then a month ago coax stopped working, then the rca stopped to give out signal completely. Was working as an headphone amp only and trough USB.


----------



## shyamelge

A few minutes back, I replaced 49990 with OPA867 in I/V section. So it's all OPA867 now. This set up sounds less bright, perhaps a bit more clean/transparent with warmish tone than the previous combo of 49990 in I/V and 827 in the rest of sections.


----------



## damier

@raoultrifan - sorry man, haven't had time to do an A/B comparison of the Essence with the Burson's. I'll try get to that and report.
 I finally received my 7812/7912/7805 from the US, so I'll be looking at replacing stock at some point.
  
 I have received my HD800's (after some stupid import issues). Noticeably better than the HD650's I was using prior. Very impressed.
 I actually have a balanced cable that came with it but am currently using it with the normal front 1/4in jack
  
 This brings me to the question: has anyone driven balanced headphones direct, with the balanced outputs on the rear of the unit? Is it doable?


----------



## raoultrifan

You should not directly connect balanced headphones to rear XLR plugs; they are intended to connect to a power or headphones amplifier only. Besides, on XLR outputs you don't have enough current to decently drive headphones and there might be an impedance issue as well. Also, output buffers might break, depending on the headphones used.
  
 I DIY a XLR>6.3mmJack adapter to connect balanced headphones to my Essence One output jack. All you need is a 6.3mm jack and a 4-pin XLR one, of course a decent cable between the 2 connectors.


----------



## damier

raoultrifan said:


> You should not directly connect balanced headphones to rear XLR plugs; they are intended to connect to a power or headphones amplifier only. Besides, on XLR outputs you don't have enough current to decently drive headphones and there might be an impedance issue as well. Also, output buffers might break, depending on the headphones used.
> 
> I DIY a XLR>6.3mmJack adapter to connect balanced headphones to my Essence One output jack. All you need is a 6.3mm jack and a 4-pin XLR one, of course a decent cable between the 2 connectors.


 

 Ah yup, thanks for the heads-up. Figured that was the case (which is why I haven't done it already).
  
 My current setup is using a balanced cable that terminates to an XLR-to-6.3mm cable - if that is what you mean.
  
 Also, you mentioned the Jotunheim above... do you have experience with that piece of hardware? I think I'm almost ready to migrate from the Essence One and move on to superior kit. Recommendations?
  
 Sorry to barrel you with questions, raoul - but it's your fault for being a good source of information


----------



## raoultrifan

Thank you damier for the kind words. 
  
 Don't have experience with Jotunheim and I'm not sure it can be considered as a real upgrade over the Essence One (especially if we're speaking of MUSES version), but I'm sure it worth a try. What I love to Schiit guys is that they're really engineers and they do know how to design a Hi-Fi piece of equipment (low noise internally power supply, great decoupling, minimise jitter or re-clocking etc.). Perhaps you could check out the Jotunheim forum here on Head-Fi and in case you'll buy it please update this page too for details and A/B compare (if possible).
  
 Regards!


----------



## shyamelge

The new set up (827 in I/V) runs cooler than 49990.


----------



## shyamelge

Has anyone tested OPA827 and Muses 8920 in I/V? If yes, kindly share your experience.


----------



## shyamelge

I need your help:
  
 I am getting a scratching noise only from the left speaker (audio out) when I turn up/down the volume knob on Asus Essence One. It goes away when I stop the movement of the volume knob. Also when I move the knob to lower volume, the output drops dis-proportionally on the left side as compared to the right channel. At full volume, left channel performs perfectly.
  
 There is no such noise from the right spk when I move the volume knob either way.   
  
 While there is no such noise coming from headphone output (left or right side).
  
 I didn't notice this issue earlier so I am wondering whether this has to do with my changing op amps yesterday?
  
 Kindly advice.


----------



## shyamelge

I changed the op amp in the audio out section and the noise went away.
  
 i think the soldering of the 827 opamp was not done properly on the board.


----------



## raoultrifan

damier said:


> @raoultrifan - thanks for the assurance. I read a few reviews myself that concluded they were a sweet pairing
> 
> I just bought two V5i's as I still have the V5's -- I was planning on keeping the V5's in LPF and replacing the V+Gain MUSES02 with the newer V5i's. That would be best, no?
> 
> Regarding how I made the V5's fit; Burson sell 3cm extenders. They can be found on their website: https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/ -- quite convenient


 

 Hi,
  
 I recommend 2xV5i duals for the LPF and for headphone gain stage either 2xV5i duals either 2xV5 duals with wire adapters or angled-DIP8 adapters. There will not be much difference between the MUSES02 and the V5i duals in LPF, but if you can A/B against another device it would be great. In this moment I have 4xV5i in my E1 DAC: 2 in LPF + 2 in headphone gain stage.
  
 Cheers,
 Raul.


----------



## shyamelge

Has anyone tried AD797? Which model (AD 797BRZ?) to be used one Essence One?


----------



## raoultrifan

You really need to dig into this forum a bit more: http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/810#post_8300531.
  
 You will find a lot of posts regarding opamp changing in Essence One and most of the opamp rollers recommends to use opamps recommended by ASUS; otherwise, read carefully opamp specs and use a scope.
  
 P.S.: If you don't want to spend money on expensive opamps, then you can use MUSES8920 in I/V and MUSES8820 in LPF, Headphone gain and Output buffers stages.


----------



## shyamelge

Thanks for providing the link and advice.


----------



## dmbr

I upgraded to a Yulong A28 balanced amp recently but continued to use the Essence One as a DAC.

I'm now looking to upgrade my DAC from the Essence but I'm not really sure how much I should be looking to spend for a marked improvement (given I don't know what portion of the One's $1000 value is the DAC and amp's).

Could anyone please give me an idea of how much to spend to upgrade from the DAC of the One? Perhaps some models to look at?

Thanks!


----------



## raoultrifan

If you really want to upgrade, why not looking to an Yulong balanced DAC?
  
 If you don't want to spend too much money, you could also upgrade the internal opamps of your Essence One: MUSES01 in I/V and BURSON V5i or MUSES02 or MUSES8820 in LPF. There are also other mods available for this DAC if you really want to push this further.


----------



## interference

dmbr said:


> I upgraded to a Yulong A28 balanced amp recently but continued to use the Essence One as a DAC.
> 
> I'm now looking to upgrade my DAC from the Essence but I'm not really sure how much I should be looking to spend for a marked improvement (given I don't know what portion of the One's $1000 value is the DAC and amp's).
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Essence One is a well-designed DAC and headphone amp.
  
 The volume pot could be regarded as a weak spot, but I do not see it as an issue if you are keeping it fixed at maximum (or at a high level) while using the volume control of the Yulong. A fixed output DAC could provide a cleaner signal path, but I am not so sure of the actual benefits.
  
 If you really want to try an upgrade, among commercial products I would suggest the TEAC UD-501 which has an excellent dual-monaural architecture with double transformer. The newer UD-503 is also an excellent product with a very fine preamplifier stage and balanced headphone amp, but not taking advantage of those features would be a waste of money.


----------



## raoultrifan

interference said:


> The Essence One is a well-designed DAC and headphone amp.
> 
> The volume pot could be regarded as a weak spot, but I do not see it as an issue if you are keeping it fixed at maximum (or at a high level) while using the volume control of the Yulong. A fixed output DAC could provide a cleaner signal path, but I am not so sure of the actual benefits.


 
   
 You can unplug the "IDE" cable used to adjust the internal volume and purchase a connector to short-circuit input/output pins (or just solder small straps correctly on the back of the motherboard), based on Jimmy's findings and schematic, but I really don't think you'll gain anything in regard with signal-noise ratio.
  
 Quote:


interference said:


> http://jimmyauw.com/2013/04/21/demystifying-asus-xonar-essence-one-potentiometer-volume-control/ If you really want to try an upgrade, among commercial products I would suggest the TEAC UD-501 which has an excellent dual-monaural architecture with double transformer. The newer UD-503 is also an excellent product with a very fine preamplifier stage and balanced headphone amp, but not taking advantage of those features would be a waste of money.


  

 After the mods I've done to my Essence One MUSES/BURSON MKii I wouldn't trade it for an UD-501, honestly. Instead, I might move on the UD-503, mostly because of the active ground feature, but also other pluses ofc.


----------



## EternalChampion

raoultrifan said:


> After the mods I've done to my Essence One MUSES/*BURSON MKii *I wouldn't trade it for an UD-501, honestly. Instead, I might move on the UD-503, mostly because of the active ground feature, but also other pluses ofc.


 
 Typo?


----------



## raoultrifan

eternalchampion said:


> Typo?


 
 Well, not really: http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3375#post_12959422
  
 P.S.: In case you like reading, feel free to try out:
 - kill_trafo_hum_noise
 - PSU_PCB_ground_issue+replacing_+/-12V_regulators (more details here)
 - -12V_ground_loop
 - replacing_+5V_regulator
 - EMI/RFI_filter
 - dedicated_+5V_PSU_for_PCM1795_only
 - MUSES01_in_IV
 - more_bypass&decoupling
 - BURSON_SS_V5
 - BURSON_SS_V5i
 - MKii_upgrade_EEPROM
 - installing_the_DSD_upgrade


----------



## EternalChampion

raoultrifan said:


> Well, not really: http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3375#post_12959422


 
 I know.  Someone might think you are referring to the external Burson MKII amp the way you laid it out


----------



## raoultrifan

Oh, Soloist? No, sorry...but thanks for mentioning it.


----------



## RandomSanity

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to ask, but how do you differentiate between the Essence One and the Essence One Muses edition, aside from looking at the op amps? Is there any physical difference between the two on the outside?


----------



## raoultrifan

It has been discussed a lot in previous pages from this thread, but I'll try to reply from memory:
 - MUSES01 in I/V
 - MUSES02 in LPF (optionally, only for MKii ver. with DSD playback or if purchased separately)
 - logarithmic volume potentiometer for headphones (regular E1 has linear pot. and volume is too high for sensitive cans, even at 9 o'clock)
 - possibility of adjusting the output gain from internal jumpers (std. E1 has no such jumpers, but can be added later by DIY)
 - some say there might be differences between the PCB versions, but I'm not sure this is true and if it means something
  
 Physically are exactly the same, though top colour is a bit different between versions: golden, black.


----------



## techboy

Muses and Regular have different Color dragons on top.


----------



## ProfB

I have the Asus Essence One Muses and was thinking of getting the DSD upgrade kit.
 As I use the headphone amplifer and not the XLR or RCA outputs would I be able to use the two Muses02 in the upgrade kit to replace the headphone buffer as I l already have Muses01 in the I/V and LPF.
  
 Has anyone already tried this, if so what difference doe sit make?


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi, 
  
 Yes, of course you do. You can also mix MUSES02 and MUSE01 between LPF and VAS (voltage amplification of your headamp).
  
 After the DSD upgrade was complete your DAC becomes the MKii version and the upsampling is way better (no more treble rolloff) and DSD playback is enabled. More about this here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/720245/asus-essence-one-mkii-mkii-muses-edition/15#post_11846812
  
 If, for some reason, you don't need the MUSES02, then have a look here too: http://www.head-fi.org/t/776696/asus-xonar-essence-one-dsd-upgrade-from-mki-to-mkii. Personally I do have MUSES02 purchased and I can recommend them for Essence One.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Energy

*ASUS Essence One MUSES Edition "Specialie"*
  
  

  

  

  

  
 Departing my Essence One MUSES if anyone is interested.

Power & Ribbon cable upgrade
Elna Silmic II & Nichicon KA electrolytic capacitor upgrade
LME49710HA _(4)_ for Headphone Output with Heatsink
LME49710HA _(2)_ for RCA Output | LME49720NA _(2)_ for XLR Output
Improved thermal performance _(Artic Silver 5)_
  
 Has some light scruffs on it but performs excellent.


----------



## endeeinn

The Silmic II's have thicker leads than other caps.  Did you have to ream out the pcb in order to take the Silmics?


----------



## Energy

endeeinn said:


> The Silmic II's have thicker leads than other caps.  Did you have to ream out the pcb in order to take the Silmics?




Not at all. I use an industrial solder sucker and a METCAL high precision temperature controlled soldering iron. They all managed to fit. I wouldn't recommend doing it as it wasn't very easy.


----------



## grig

my time to post  just received a couple of the famous SS Burson the V5i for the lpf stage, and it seem they do a bad job since they bring a lot of noise on the background. For those that use them in the same position as me or for those that at least they had them in the past for any reason, testing included, did u ever notice anything like that ?


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi Grig, 
  
 I'm using right now V5i in LPF and VAS and I have no issues with noise at all; also, no oscillations were found with my scope. Please check my previous posts on this thread for details.
  
 Instead, I had this noise you're talking about when V5i were used in Matrix HPA-3B headamp; also, other headfiers had the same issue with V5i when used in different equipment. I believe there's sort of interference or even a small oscillation that may happen under odd circumstances.
  
 Cheers, 
 Raul.


----------



## grig

raoultrifan said:


> Hi Grig,
> 
> I'm using right now V5i in LPF and VAS and I have no issues with noise at all; also, no oscillations were found with my scope. Please check my previous posts on this thread for details.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Raoul,
  
 i remember you're-view, and all you're post, because of that i decided to buy this 2, V5i and put them in the lpf section. I believe the're a bit defective, one or both of them. I'm trying to deal with the customer service of the Burson Company to have them replaced, because as is i can't keep them. And you imagine that 1 pin out of 8 it's a bit shorter and the opamp is not stable in the socket, he moves a bit when you push on top, i already sent a couple of videos to the company. They're unlucky this two.
  
 Best Regards,
 grig


----------



## raoultrifan

1 pin is shorter? Hmmm...that's a bit odd. I remember my V5i opamps were a bit loosy, but I bend them easily and everything went well.
  
 What opamps are you using in I/V stage please? I wonder if the combo V5i + I/V opamps may create the noise issue you are talking about.


----------



## Nurgayan

Hi guys,
I want to share my experience on upgrading this device!
  
At one time tried many variants of OPamp.
  
Here are my recommendations:
  
for I/V converter - LME49720HA, NE5534A
  
for LPF section  - one of the best SonicImagery LABS 994Enh-Ticha Dual Discrete, this OPamp operate in Class A.
Slightly simpler, but also performed well OPA1611/12


----------



## Nurgayan

If we talk about a more radical alteration, I recall my modification of Asus Essence One with a replacement Dac chips to Ti PCM1792A. They have full compatibility on the conclusions.Of course, the chip count was changed.
  
As a result of testing, I noticed a small increase in the quality of sound.
  
As a result of testing, I noticed a small increase in the quality of sound. The experience turned out to be quite interesting, but I do not think that it cost all the costs. At least it turned out exclusive. 





  
I wish you all successful experiments!


----------



## grig

raoultrifan said:


> 1 pin is shorter? Hmmm...that's a bit odd. I remember my V5i opamps were a bit loosy, but I bend them easily and everything went well.
> 
> What opamps are you using in I/V stage please? I wonder if the combo V5i + I/V opamps may create the noise issue you are talking about.


 
 if i put the muses or the lme 49990 in the lpf no noise no issues, i have at home two defective lme 49990 that bring noise and channel imbalance in the sound. I have in total 6 lme 49990; two of those are defective and they act weird, but make sense are defective.


----------



## Nurgayan

grig said:


> if i put the muses or the lme 49990 in the lpf no noise no issues, i have at home two defective lme 49990 that bring noise and channel imbalance in the sound. I have in total 6 lme 49990; two of those are defective and they act weird, but make sense are defective.


 
LME49990 is quite unstable, especially in this device. A characteristic increase in distortion can be observed in the RMAA program. Especially in LPF section, I do not recommend.


----------



## grig

nurgayan said:


> LME49990 is quite unstable, especially in this device. A characteristic increase in distortion can be observed in the RMAA program. I do not recommend.


 
 i know someone had some issues with, but for me they work flawless  just two out of six are defective and that's it


----------



## Nurgayan

grig said:


> i know someone had some issues with, but for me they work flawless  just two out of six are defective and that's it


 
Clearly, your right!
  
As an analogue of LME49990, I advise you to try out OPA1611. The performance of which in the RMAA is much better.


----------



## Nurgayan

Photos from my archive by modification ASUS Essence One (PCM1792A) 




  
Do not judge strictly...


----------



## grig

nurgayan said:


> Clearly, your right!
> 
> As an analogue of LME49990, I advise you to try out OPA1611. The performance of which in the RMAA is much better.


 
 thanks for you're advise, any other opamp with great sound that i should try for the stage I/V ?


----------



## grig

nurgayan said:


> Photos from my archive by modification ASUS Essence One (PCM1792A)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i like you're style man, what opamp you we're using in this picture?


----------



## Nurgayan

grig said:


> thanks for you're advise, any other opamp with great sound that i should try for the stage I/V ?


 
 For I/V stage, I recommend LME49710 and NE5534A


----------



## grig

nurgayan said:


> For I/V stage, I recommend LME49710 and NE5534A


 
 between the LME 49710 and NE5534A which one is you're favourite ? Did you buy you're opamp on ebay ? In case yes a favourite seller that sell one of this and they're original ?


----------



## Nurgayan

grig said:


> i like you're style man, what opamp you we're using in this picture?


 
This photo was taken while checking the functioning of the device, after replacing the converter chips. ) Therefore, cheap NE5532P.


----------



## Nurgayan

Later, better operational amplifiers were installed.
  
for I/V - LME49990, LPF - OPA1612 and buffer - Discrete OPamp by SonicImagery LABS 994Enh-Ticha


----------



## Nurgayan

grig said:


> between the LME 49710 and NE5534A which one is you're favourite ? Did you buy you're opamp on ebay ? In case yes a favourite seller that sell one of this and they're original ?


 
For me, the option with NE5534A is more preferable. However, it requires an additional element, such as a capacitor to work in I/V stage. In any case, both options are not standard. I bought chips and adapters, and then I did soldering. Purchased electronic components on Ebay, mainly from the seller under the nickname HIFIIC.


----------



## raoultrifan

@grig: Try 4 x original MUSES01 or 4 x MUSES8890.
  
 Anyway, in case you're using LME49990 now, please swap them with the default LME49720 and let us know if the noise is still there when V5i are used in LPF.


----------



## techboy

I'm selling mine. Check this out:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/841943/asus-essence-one-muses-edition-dac-pre-and-headphone-amp


----------



## grig

raoultrifan said:


> @grig: Try 4 x original MUSES01 or 4 x MUSES8890.
> 
> Anyway, in case you're using LME49990 now, please swap them with the default LME49720 and let us know if the noise is still there when V5i are used in LPF.


 
 i have the original muses and yes it does ! like it does with lme 49990. btw why you recommend the 8890 and not the 8920 ?


----------



## raoultrifan

Typo, sorry. I meant 8920, of course; 8920 is a FET-input opamp designed to be used in I/V stage and it really does a good job.


----------



## grig

raoultrifan said:


> Typo, sorry. I meant 8920, of course; 8920 is a FET-input opamp designed to be used in I/V stage and it really does a good job.


 
 a seller on ebay that sells them original for sure ? maybe i give them a try


----------



## raoultrifan

You should use official channels, you'll definitely find 8920 ad 8820 too. eBay can not be trusted, sorry.


----------



## Nurgayan

On Ebay there are sellers whose reputation earned the consumer's trust. For example, for the purchase of Muses 01/02 and 8920 can turn to gyrocom (Audiotrak).


----------



## grig

nurgayan said:


> On Ebay there are sellers whose reputation earned the consumer's trust. For example, for the purchase of Muses 01/02 and 8920 can turn to gyrocom (Audiotrak).


 
 gyrocom looks like someone that can be trusted to be honest


----------



## Nurgayan

grig said:


> gyrocom looks like someone that can be trusted to be honest


 
My confidence in this seller is confirmed by successful transactions ...


----------



## Pipppero2007

Hi,

How i can play dsd files with E1 original in foobar2000?

Read nany guides but i prefer an advice from you that knows the E1.


----------



## mBTX

Pipppero2007 said:


> Hi,
> 
> How i can play dsd files with E1 original in foobar2000?
> 
> Read nany guides but i prefer an advice from you that knows the E1.


you need to buy the upgrade kit to do that.  amazon sells it for $125

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LHT73L2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A353W46UC1RVYH


----------



## EternalChampion

I would like to get some more feedback related to the E1 MKii standard version before I make my final decision:  So my question is, whether the mid-bass feels heavy and bricky to you, and also whether the drums strike hard with aggression.

Whoever owns the STX II and uses it with headphones like the HD600/650 knows exactly what I'm talking about...   Equing stuff was unfortunately mandatory to make it listenable. 

So, my general concern here is frequencies sticking out from the rest of the mix in an aggressive manner.


----------



## Karllin

If I use the Essence One Muse as a source to an amp via the XLR outputs, how high should I set the volume on the Muse to get the best sound?


----------



## raoultrifan

@EternalChampion: Basically, sound of MKii is identical with the sound of MKi when playing FLAC/MP3 files (if upsampling feature is not involved).
There's a lot of feedback on the pages of this thread, so I'm not sure I could say more than all the others that contributed here. Though I would say that upgrading to MKii will resolve the upsampling treble roll-off issue and also adding DoP DSD playback.

@Karllin: Usually volume should be set to the max. to get the best SNR possible. However, depending on your amp sensitivity, you could adjust the Essence's volume to match your preference.


----------



## EternalChampion

raoultrifan said:


> @EternalChampion: Basically, sound of MKii is identical with the sound of MKi when playing FLAC/MP3 files (if upsampling feature is not involved).
> There's a lot of feedback on the pages of this thread, so I'm not sure I could say more than all the others that contributed here. Though I would say that upgrading to MKii will resolve the upsampling treble roll-off issue and also adding DoP DSD playback..



Maybe I bypassed it, but I haven't seen any post which emphasizes on my concerns.  So, can you please state your own opinion in regards to mid-bass and drums on the E1?  Do they feel lightweight and calm to your ears or feel heavy?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Karllin

raoultrifan said:


> @EternalChampion: Basically, sound of MKii is identical with the sound of MKi when playing FLAC/MP3 files (if upsampling feature is not involved).
> There's a lot of feedback on the pages of this thread, so I'm not sure I could say more than all the others that contributed here. Though I would say that upgrading to MKii will resolve the upsampling treble roll-off issue and also adding DoP DSD playback.
> 
> @Karllin: Usually volume should be set to the max. to get the best SNR possible. However, depending on your amp sensitivity, you could adjust the Essence's volume to match your preference.


Thank you.  I was just returning to the thread to clarify I am connecting to a HDVA600 with its own volume control.  I think you assumed that I meant to indicate an amp with its own volume and answered my question.  Thanks again.


----------



## raoultrifan (Jun 5, 2017)

@EternalChampion: I would say that with default opamps bass is on the heavy side. However, changing the I/V opamps with original MUSES01 bass is exactly how it should be (also, clarity & details & soundstage increase too).
@Karllin: I see now, however I still suggest turning the volume to the max. at the source (Essence One), then HDVA600's volume can be adjusted as desired. Essence One has an output voltage of about 2-2.1V RMS, so I don't see any compatibility issues.


----------



## wanted110

raoultrifan said:


> Well, not really: http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/3375#post_12959422
> 
> P.S.: In case you like reading, feel free to try out:
> - kill_trafo_hum_noise
> ...



Hi raoultrifan,

From all these mods, which one would your recommend the most ? I have the Muse Edition, free of mod, but I'm interested in trying, provided there is an audible benefit. 
Worth it to buy some V5 or V5i ? 

Regards, wanted.


----------



## raoultrifan

wanted110 said:


> Hi raoultrifan,
> 
> From all these mods, which one would your recommend the most ? I have the Muse Edition, free of mod, but I'm interested in trying, provided there is an audible benefit.
> Worth it to buy some V5 or V5i ?
> ...



Hello, 

2 x SS V5 in LPF stage caused sort of a "radio" noise while moving the volume knob between 90 - 100%, though I couldn't see any oscillations on my scope. Sound was very good, not much of a difference comparing V5 with MUSES02, but without a proper A/B test I can't decide which one would be better.

I believe now I'm using 2 x V5i in LPF and 2 x V5i in VAS and sound is very good, maybe a bass is a bit overemphasised on the headphones, but this is a subjective test anyway. 

Besides the 4 x MUSES01 in I/V (you already have those) I can only recommend 2 x MUSES02 or 2 x V5i in the LPF stage; optionally you could do the same in VAS stage, but to be honest difference will not be night & day, so feel free to try this only if you really have the money for and really-really want to try some mods.

Regarding to my other mods I've did:
- if you don't have hum on your headphones then I see no reason to shield the transformer
- if you have a scope then please measure the -12V rail and see if you can identify those spikes I was speaking about; if not, there's no reason to move further with -12V ground loop mode
- without a scope I see no reason to move on with replacing power regulators or by adding a dedicated +5V to PCM1795 DAC chips
Also, replacing power regulators, resolving ground loops and adding a new +5V PSU for the DACs is extremely "intrusive" and could damage the PCB and electronic components, so please take care when doing some of these mods! The least intrusive mods could be: increasing PSU caps filtering value (either by replacing the original caps, either by adding more caps in parallel) and adding more decoupling caps nearby the 2 DACs (WIMA MKP, but also tantalums should help).

The most improvements I've noticed when I've upgraded default I/V opamps to 4 x MUSES01 (details, clarity, soundstage, more relaxed sound), but also when I've added a separate +5V power source for the 2 x PCM1795 DACs (the original E1 had a "grainy" sound and a bit fatiguing too). I had access to 2 identical Essence One to do A/B test and an additional audiophile to help out with the tests.

Regards, 
Raul.


----------



## wanted110

raoultrifan said:


> Hello,
> 
> 2 x SS V5 in LPF stage caused sort of a "radio" noise while moving the volume knob between 90 - 100%, though I couldn't see any oscillations on my scope. Sound was very good, not much of a difference comparing V5 with MUSES02, but without a proper A/B test I can't decide which one would be better.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your answer.
I'm lucky to have no hum on mine.
For the rest, guess I'll jump on my probes and test the rails.

Saying free of mod was not perfectly exact since I have AD797BR (tuned following the datasheet) as buffer aop. 
I might try some V5i as well for I have bass-shy headphones.

Regards, wanted.


----------



## dclaz

Hi guys,

I've been enjoying my Essence Xonar One for quite some time now, it's been absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately, I just reinstalled win10, and as far as I can tell, the process has corrupted the devices firmware. Windows cannot correctly identify the hardware, and the official drivers insist that i connect the device and will not proceed with installation.

I've done a bit of googling and it looks like similar things have occurred to owners of internal PCI/PCIE Xonar cards (see: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Xonar_EEPROM_Failure) but I can't find any similar cases with the Essence One. 

Anyone have this problem before? Any suggestions?

Cheers


----------



## dclaz

dclaz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been enjoying my Essence Xonar One for quite some time now, it's been absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately, I just reinstalled win10, and as far as I can tell, the process has corrupted the devices firmware. Windows cannot correctly identify the hardware, and the official drivers insist that i connect the device and will not proceed with installation.
> 
> ...


Managed to 'somehow' fix it, but plugging the device into another computer and then back in to my primary one. Very odd.


----------



## mBTX

dclaz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been enjoying my Essence Xonar One for quite some time now, it's been absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately, I just reinstalled win10, and as far as I can tell, the process has corrupted the devices firmware. Windows cannot correctly identify the hardware, and the official drivers insist that i connect the device and will not proceed with installation.
> 
> ...



I also have a mkii that is undiscoverable via USB.  (USB)1, 2, or 3.  It matters not.  I've searched around, but I can't find much mention about this issue.  Both the SPIDIF and the optical work fine.  I just happen to prefer the sound of the USB,  I know this only because I bought a second....  However, now my second one has started to pop/crackle/hiss in the L.ch XLR.  It's not right off the bat either.  It takes a minute or two to start showing its audio artefacts.  Is that what a dying capacitor would sound like??? 

IDK, I may just end up selling the pair and picking up a new dac....  Audio GD has some stuff thats piqued my intrest. 

But in the meantime if someone could kindly point me in the right direction as per the USB issue, it'd be greatly appreciated.


----------



## rennwerkes

Has anyone had any issues with the faceplate cover delaminating?  If so, any suggestions on getting it to remain fixed and flat?  Thanks


----------



## Hopup

mBTX said:


> I also have a mkii that is undiscoverable via USB.  (USB)1, 2, or 3.  It matters not.  I've searched around, but I can't find much mention about this issue.  Both the SPIDIF and the optical work fine.  I just happen to prefer the sound of the USB,  I know this only because I bought a second....  However, now my second one has started to pop/crackle/hiss in the L.ch XLR.  It's not right off the bat either.  It takes a minute or two to start showing its audio artefacts.  Is that what a dying capacitor would sound like???
> 
> IDK, I may just end up selling the pair and picking up a new dac....  Audio GD has some stuff thats piqued my intrest.
> 
> But in the meantime if someone could kindly point me in the right direction as per the USB issue, it'd be greatly appreciated.



You could try installing latest drivers for your motherboard/chipset.


----------



## mBTX

Hopup said:


> You could try installing latest drivers for your motherboard/chipset.



I did give that a shot as well as a BIOS update to no avial.  It's also worth noting that I have this problem on any computer.  I have access to 5 in my house, and after testing on 3, I was convinced it wasn't a computer issue.


----------



## raoultrifan

mBTX, how did your Essence One DAC got defective on the USB part, please? I wonder what could get wrong with the USB interface during the time and if this could affect other devices...or how to prevent such issues.

BTW, I had upgraded from Win7 to Win10 myself with DAC unpowered, but connected to computer's USB port; I had no issues, DAC is working perfectly, even if I'm using the Win7 drivers (didn't upgraded the drivers and it still works fine under Win10).


----------



## mBTX (Nov 4, 2017)

raoultrifan said:


> mBTX, how did your Essence One DAC got defective on the USB part, please? I wonder what could get wrong with the USB interface during the time and if this could affect other devices...or how to prevent such issues.
> 
> BTW, I had upgraded from Win7 to Win10 myself with DAC unpowered, but connected to computer's USB port; I had no issues, DAC is working perfectly, even if I'm using the Win7 drivers (didn't upgrade the drivers and it still works fine under Win10).


Unfortunately, it came to me with that problem.  I bought it used, and the seller happened to forget to add that small detail.  Like I said though, it's not too problematic because both the SPIDIF and the optical inputs work just fine.

I've been thinking it could be one of two things, a failed attempt at updating its firmware, or physical damage to the USB port itself.

I do also have another question.  Does anyone know of a schematic or manual that lists the internal jumpers  and their function?  I know it's a long shot, but I was hoping that the 4-pin was an internal USB...


----------



## raoultrifan

*Teaser with 8x Burson:*
- 4xV5-D in I/V
- 2xV6-D Classic in LPF
- 2xV5i-D in VAS




*Results:* 
- no oscillations
- no overheating
- 1st class quality sound
- still testing, review will get finished later


----------



## EternalChampion

What are those V5s doing there into the I/V sockets.  

Btw, looking at your pic my thought was instant: Where are the Vivids?  I think they would blend nicely.  Or perhaps, heavenly!


----------



## raoultrifan

Well, sound is vivid and sparkling enough, perhaps on the brightest side a little bit, so don't think Vivids will help much here.  

However, LPF opamps are changing sound character indeed, so you can actually adjust if you want the sound on the bright or dark side (subtile, of course, but on A/B tests is quite evident).


----------



## EternalChampion

raoultrifan said:


> Well, sound is vivid and sparkling enough, perhaps on the brightest side a little bit, so don't think Vivids will help much here.



The V6 Vivid are a touch warmer/colorful than V5 according to the Burson graph.  And better than all the rest.  If I understand correctly, the "brightest side" is something you don't really want, right? So they'll give you a bit of warmth and a performance boost at the same time.  

Btw, I'm curious to know why you decided to take the risk going against Burson recommendation, and install the V5 on the I/V sockets.   What I see there looks more like a suicide attempt


----------



## raoultrifan

Looks like Burson is having SS V5 in I/V on the Play DAC/amp combo, so most likely I was wrong in the past (can't even remember who told me not to place them in I/V in the first place).


----------



## raoultrifan (Nov 16, 2017)

Hello again,

My heavily modified *ASUS Essence One MUSES MKii* just got modified again recently and became *ASUS Essence One BURSON MKii*. 




I've used for this the following BURSON opamps:
- 4 x SS V5-D in I/V stage
- 2 x SS V6-D Classic in Low Pass Filter stage
- 2 x V5i-D in Voltage Amplification stage

After several hours of usage and intensive testing I found no oscillations when using the above combination, no opamp overheating and on top of this I got *1st class quality sound*! 

I was listening to many songs like Chesky, hip-hop/dance, rock, jazz, classic etc. and I realized that changes in Low Pass filter are subtle indeed, like other Head-Fiers noticed too, but these changes can make the sound a bit mellow or perhaps a bit rough, depending on the opamps used, and can also modify the scene and how instruments are perceived.

I was swapping the above opamps for several times and I've lost many nights to do happy listening and to test these babies until I got the above "opamps-arrangement". Yes, indeed, SS V6-D when used in LPF stage sounds better than anything else I've tested and combining them with SS V5-D in I/V will amplify the beneficial effect.

What I got after this modding is:
- Neutral sound with a bit of warmth and lot of details.
- A bigger scene, sound is more wide open and very spacious.
- Voices are very clear, a bit more upfront, but with a very good clarity.
- Sound is less fatiguing, more peaceful, voices are not shouting at you...even when screaming, shouts are smoother and music is more enjoyable.
- Sub-bass seems a bit more present, though all-round bass is having normal "size" and impact.

Now speaking about how these opamps sound inside the Essence One, I'll try to summarize below:

2 x V5i-D in VAS: 100% compatible, not much sound changing over the stock opamps (LME49720), just a tad on the bass side, but could be my ears; however, sound is accurate and pleasant.

2 x V5i-D in LPF (Low Pass Filter): compatible, but sound was a bit bright and sparky, so you might need some "dark" headphones to pair with.
2 x SS V5-D in VAS: 100% compatible, not much sound changing over the stock opamps (LME49720), but I liked the clarity and sound-stage.
2 x SS V5-D in LPF: not 100% compatible (when moving pot. volume from 90% to 100% some oscillations could be present; however, at least opamps are not overheating and music could be reproduced perfectly), but sound was neutral with very good clarity, sound-stage increase, perhaps a bit bright but not as much as the V5i.
4 x SS V5-D in I/V stage: 100% compatible, lot of details and very good clarity, increase in sound-stage, better instrument separation, maybe a little bit on the bright side, so could be picky by someone with Grado headphones or Beyers DT 880 for example.
2 x SS V6-D Classic in VAS: 100% compatible, very detailed with neutral sound, very good sound-stage, every instrument sounds perfect and is positioned where it should be on the scene.

2 x SS V6-D Classic in LPF: 100% compatible, very detailed, good instrument separation, totally neutral and a very good sound-stage too.
Bottom of line I can totally recommend BURSON SS V6 Classic solid-state opamps, especially for those trying to upgrade regular opamps by replacing them with real high quality solid-state devices, but also for those of us wanting to get the best from their Hi-Fi gears. Seems that SS V6 Classic is compatible with all I've got at home (Matrix M-Stage, Objective 2, DIY headphone amplifier) and sound is just perfect. I also did a test recently with my Matrix M-Stage HPA-3B and paring was like siblings. 

Below is how the SS V6 Classic looks inside, in case you want to check the solid-state quality components from inside Burson opamps. 



Do not open up the protective plastic shell like I did! It will void opamp warranty and you'll risk to short-circuit your device.

To properly close the top case of Essence One you'll need to use Extension Lead wires from Burson or similar, but also 90 degrees DIP8 adapters could do.

Many thanks to Charles from BURSON who provided me these samples for testing!

Best regards and happy listening,
Raul.


----------



## Hopup

Does Burson not use that wax kind of stuff inside the opamps anymore or is that just the new model what is without it?


----------



## raoultrifan

No, not anymore for the SS V6 opamps...and I find this a good thing for increased inside ventilation, especially that the new SS V6 devices can be powered up to +/-16.5V or 33V power supply, unlike the former SS V5 and V5i that could only be powered with max. +/-15V or 30V (well, latest SS V5 opamps seems that can tolerate up to +/-16V).


----------



## mBTX

I'd take those V5s out ASAP.  They're %100 NOT recommended for use in the I/V section of that dac.  It's just more voltage than they're designed to handle.


----------



## raoultrifan

Well, I thought that myself, but looks like Burson got them installed in their PLAY DAC, so seems to be safe.


----------



## mBTX

No no no....  They're different units using different voltages.   The Play was designed around the V5's specs.


----------



## mBTX

Sorry about the double post, I can't seem to edit for some reason....

Hopefully, the Burson audio guy will pop in and enlighten us.  

I can tell you though, I have 4 V5's that make a sizzling noise from running in the Voltage section of the EO.  $240 that I can't even use as a paperweight. (too light)


----------



## raoultrifan (Nov 27, 2017)

By EO you mean Essence One? I've used 4 x SS V5 in I/V without issues and without getting overtemps or oscillations. Well, I must admit I have a custom power source in my E1, so maybe this would be the difference.


----------



## mBTX

oooooh, I had thought about getting a modded power supply from audiogd,  but in the end didn't really know enough to mess with it.


----------



## RiseFall123

Hi,

Everybody knows if it possible to connect iPhone to the E1 using the Apple camera kit cable?


----------



## r343

Bought Essence on Muses edition from Black Friday sale and paired it with HD800, i think it sounds very great, is there anything that should be done to make better or leave as it is.


----------



## raoultrifan

Congrats for your purchase

There's not much to do, it should sound very good "by default". However, you have 233 pages left to read now. 

You should also find the English ver. of Soudnews review, they did a great writing of their Essence One and HD800.


----------



## Hopup

It does take some time for the amplifier to burn in and the sound to turn less bright. I could swear that even after multiple years the sound of the essence and hd800 has still improved. I'm certain that two years ago this setup sounded much more bright than now.


----------



## grig

raoultrifan said:


> Hello again,
> 
> My heavily modified *ASUS Essence One MUSES MKii* just got modified again recently and became *ASUS Essence One BURSON MKii*.
> 
> ...



Let's face it, this is a good amplifier rather than a good DAC and is good as well as an op-amp bench, but if you want to get out more, roll op-amp is not going to do the trick...


----------



## Hopup

Well, it got very good review from 6moons back in the day. If I remember right, it was being compared to 10K dacs for its sound.


----------



## grig

Hopup said:


> Well, it got very good review from 6moons back in the day. If I remember right, it was being compared to 10K dacs for its sound.


well i own one too, so i know very well how they sound and then i own a fostex hp-a3 which sound even better.


----------



## RiseFall123

There’s somebody here that owns the Mojo dac too?

Just for a comparison between the E1 and Mojo.

To my ear the E1 is better in filling and driving my HD650 but I like to have some impartial opinions about that.


----------



## RiseFall123

Does somebody compared the E1 (even the original) with the famous Mojo?

I have both and think that as dac the Mojo is far better but as headphones anplifier (hd650) the E1 is better than Mojo (big difference in filling the cans).


----------



## r343

Product page says that Muses Edition contains ●Headphone: 1 x I/V: NE5532; 1 x LPF: NE5532; Current Buffer: LME49600 at stated Headphone section.

I wonder how much it would improve if i switched muses01 or 02 amps  to replace NE5532 as iam using HD800.

But dont wanna make it more bright sounding, it would be too much if it would effect that way.


----------



## raoultrifan

- Essence One has 4 x NE5532P in I/V stage, 2 x NE5532P in LPF
- Essence One Muses has 4 x MUSES01 in I/V, 2 x NE5532P in LPF
- Purchasing the MKii kit will get you 2 x MUSES02 to place in LPF
- All of the above have 2 x LME49720 in Voltage Amplification Stage followed by LME49600 buffers.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/asu...pgrade-how-does-this-sound-for-a-plan.628575/

Upgrading opamps in this DAC is a pleasure and has been discussed in over 50% of this thread, so feel free to read our thoughts. However, bottom of line everyone here agree that 4 x MUSES01 in I/V will give you a better sound.


----------



## Hopup

I have HD800 and muses. When I first got it, it was clearly bright but as the components burn in, it gets less bright. I don't know if it is the amplifier or the headphones what had even more burn in but the sound is much better now couple years later than when I got both of them. I have used both very extensively.


----------



## RiseFall123

Hopup said:


> I have HD800 and muses. When I first got it, it was clearly bright but as the components burn in, it gets less bright. I don't know if it is the amplifier or the headphones what had even more burn in but the sound is much better now couple years later than when I got both of them. I have used both very extensively.



I have the HD650 and the E1 (normal) and it never been bright. Simply a perfect combo (to me).


----------



## r343

raoultrifan said:


> However, bottom of line everyone here agree that 4 x MUSES01 in I/V will give you a better sound.


 Yes, more specifically i was wondering that after you have 4 x muses01 in I/V and 2x LPF but NE5532 at Headphone Stage I/V+LPF which is Default for Muses Edition, can it be noticed if those are changed better. I readed this thread but didint catch much info about situation like that, Upgrade kit is 96€ which contains 2xMuses02 but whole thing costed for me 300€ so dunno if its worth. I would place those in Headphone stage to replace NE5532


----------



## raoultrifan

You could get cheaper MUSES 8820 for the LPF.
Headphone amplification stage is using LME49720 and not NE5532 and LME49720 is the recommended opamp by the TI for this schematic. However, feel free to change it with any other good quality bipolar opamp.


----------



## RiseFall123

Hi,

E1 original and HD650 is my setup.

The source is iphone-Tidal.

I find the combo good and dynamic, excellent with balanced good produced musics but with most I find it fatiguing for middleup highs.

I wonder if with a kit or a ops switch I could solve the problem otherwise I will stick with the comfortably Mojo (but with less impact).


----------



## raoultrifan

Hi, 

Before spending anymore money, couldn't be the HD650/E1 pairing the issue? Can you try a parametric EQ to lower the frequencies you feel "fatiguing" (around 4K perhaps)?

However, you can start opamps rolling, of course: 4 x MUSES01 in I/V + 2 x MUSES02 (or MUSES8820) in LPF. If too expensive, you could try 4 x MUSES8920 in I/V, but sound will not be the same as 4 x MUSES01.


----------



## RiseFall123

The iphone can’t be EQed or I should add an equalizer.

What’s the sound signature of your two combinations? I mean we are in the warm or in the bright side?


----------



## raoultrifan

I would call it neutral-to-warm side.

However, without a bit of EQ-ing I can't increase the volume if headphones are used, because *I'm 4KHz sensitive* (either EQ, either modded headphones) and *I need 8 KHz to get increased* (for some reason I'm missing 8 KHz with all my headphones, but on the speakers 8 KHz sounds fine).


----------



## RiseFall123

raoultrifan said:


> I would call it neutral-to-warm side.
> 
> However, without a bit of EQ-ing I can't increase the volume if headphones are used, because *I'm 4KHz sensitive* (either EQ, either modded headphones) and *I need 8 KHz to get increased* (for some reason I'm missing 8 KHz with all my headphones, but on the speakers 8 KHz sounds fine).



It's anyway a "try" and listening in the bedroom room I would like to not add more stuff to the "chain".

I am trying to understand if I can use the Mojo-HD650 pair without any amplification, there I have no issues at all about fatiguing listening, but I am a little afraid about the dynamics that I lost.

I am testing and thinking, to choose* between Mojo-HD650 or E1-HD650* with the mods that you advices.

Any comments/opinion are very welcome.


----------



## Hopup

How long have you used E1? Have u tried upsampling if it reduces the fatigue? Is your music high bitrate?


----------



## Player4

I've recently purchased  a one mkII. I have a small collection of op-amps , so I am thinking about using LME49720 in I/V, OPA2107 in buffers and LM6172 in LPF.
Didi someone used this combination?


----------



## RiseFall123

Hopup said:


> How long have you used E1? Have u tried upsampling if it reduces the fatigue? Is your music high bitrate?



I have the E1 from 2012, I used very much as dac and very few as headphone's amp.

I tried upsampling but I didn't like the results at all.

I use only iPhone>Tidal>E1 so 44,1khz bitrate.

The problem is not with all music but with a good part of it. Instead, with Mojo, I don't have fatiguing at all (but the E1 has other advantages).

Now I put away (for now) the E1 and I want to give the attention to the Mojo to understand if it can pair well with HD650, just don't want other A/B test for some days in order to not confuse my hearing. If I will get used with the Mojo's low dynamics and narrow soundstage (but also the musicality, tone, details and zero fatiguing) I will stick with it otherwise I will back with the E1 but I will ask some advices to make it more "warm".


----------



## raoultrifan

Upsampling only work fine in the Mkii version; you can read more about it here on this forum, but also on the Archimago's blog.

Also, for opamp upgrading there's plenty of info on this forum. I would suggest MUSES01 in I/V, BURSON V6 dual or MUSES02 or MUSES8820 in LPF. Buffers will not change the sound much, I can't recommend you changing the default opamps unless you really want to do this (however, MUSES8820 could be a good upgrade for the buffers, though you will not feel any difference in A/B test).


----------



## r343 (Jan 24, 2018)

Tested 4x Ne5532 in  I/V  againts 4 x Muses01 in I/V for HD800 to bring bit more lower end / bass.

Well the clarity and detail loss was just too much, singer voices went meh and there was more bass quantity but not quality. Rather use Muses01 and just EQ little bit more bass with low shelf filter.

Have to add that Muses01 feet seemed very fragile and about to break when removing or adding them to sockets.


----------



## endeeinn

r343 said:


> Have to add that Muses01 feet seemed very fragile and about to break when removing or adding them to sockets.


That's good news as that means you have the real deal Muses01s and  not fakes.  Mount them is a socket and remove the socket when opamp rollin or better  yet put them in and leave them there as  you won't find better.


----------



## daniser

Hi all,
here is the repair manual for units which cannot enter firmware update mode needed for upgrading from MKI version to MKII.
AFAIK, small number of units is affected, but still - hope it'll be useful.


----------



## raoultrifan

Thank you, much appreciated.

P.S.: Hope will never need to do this.


----------



## raoultrifan (Apr 2, 2018)

Hello again,

Not sure if everyone's aware of the main lowlight of E1 amplifier: the output impedance of about *11 ohms* (I actually measured 10.9 ohms on mine with 1kHz sine signal and 30-ohms resistive load). I usually don't complain about this because it sounds very good with most of my cans, but I got into troubles recently with the newly purchased 16-ohms IEM's because of bass roll-off and the sub-bass was impaired when A/B compared against a discrete amplifier I have it on my desk. Also, my Fostex T50RP MK3 planars were having a bit of issues in the sub-bass department too when paired with E1's amplifier, instead with my Matrix HPA-3B or Burson Play bass was just fine. With other cans I found no such issues!

Here's the *2 x 10-ohms resistors* in the signal path, just between the LME49600 and the 6.3mm jack plug:



I could probably just short-circuit both resistors, because they're unnecessary based on TI's specs of LME49600, but I find it safe & easy to parallel 2 more 10-ohms resistors on top of existing ones to lower the output resistance and impedance as well.

 

Sorry for how it looks like, but these were the only resistors I had at home for the moment. However, I was able to measure about 2.9 Ohms output impedance with 30-ohms resistive load after doing the above mod. This is all I needed so I can be able to have a proper listening experience out of my planars and low-impedance IEM headphones and I'm quite happy with this easy mod.

Why are those 10-ohms resistors in there in the first place if TI is not recommend them? Well...most likely to protect the output stage LME49600 chips when we plug/unplug the headphones while music is still playing (there's a short-circuit creating inside the jack when we do that). So a common sense would be to lower the volume or simply stop the music from playing when plugging or unplugging the headphones and no issues will occur.

Some links regarding the initial concern/lowlight/con:
- https://www.stereophile.com/content...-processor150headphone-amplifier-measurements
- https://headmania.org/2014/05/16/asus-xonar-essence-one-review/

L.E.: Second pic got re-edited later for a better close-up view.


----------



## Ad-Astra

is this amplifier still a good choice? my friend selling me the mk1 version for 150usd, please help!!!!


----------



## raoultrifan

At this price it should be a good performer combo device. You really need to read Soundnews, Headmania, Stereophile and Innerfidelity reviews about it. Also, you might wanna review some of the 235 pages of this forum, at least the first douzens of pages might tell you something about this DAC/headmap combo.


----------



## kiwivda

How many Watt in single ended over 32 Ohm is capable of this amp ?


----------



## raoultrifan

LME49600 from inside E1 is powered from +/-12V power supply, so it won't output more than 7.3V RMS per channel (I was able to measure almost 7.1V RMS actually, with 2V RMS input 1KHz sinewave). However, per it's datasheet: _"the LME49600 is able to drive 32Ω headphones to a dissipation of greater than 500mW at 0.00003% THD+N while operating on ±15V power supply voltages"_.

Of course, for short-term peak you might be able to get spikes up to 1W of power per channel, but honestly...I can't keep on my head any of my hard to drive panars like Hifiman HE-560 and Fostex T50RP-mk3 with volume above 2 o'clock, unless the songs are recorded somewhere around -3dBFS. With 0dBFS my ears start bleading if volume is maxed out.


----------



## Hopup

Have anyone here tried TL072 op-amps on the amp? I have been using them for the buffer and it has very natural sound and pleasing sound (especially vocals) with my lower quality phones. Others slots I use muses.


----------



## raoultrifan

@Hopup, the older TL072 under no circumstances will have a lower THD+N than NE5532P, so unless you have a way to measure THD+N, I strongly recommend you to leave your default NE5532P opamps untouched in there.

See https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...sion-and-reviews.854912/page-18#post-14799047.

All I can say is that with default NE5532P mounted in I/V stage I get much less distortions that with MUSES01: 2nd harmonic is about 16-18 dB lower with NE5532P vs. MUSES01 and 3rd harmonic is about 2-3 dB lower as well.






*MUSES01 in I/V, THD+N: 0.0067%
*





*NE5532P in I/V, THD+N: 0.0024%*​


----------



## seateam (Aug 30, 2019)

QUOTE FROM RAOULTRIFAN

I really liked it, but OPA2604 were very hot to touch and when I measured E1's power consumption I realized that each OPAMP is getting an additional power of almost 1W/each (over 15W with OPA2604 vs. almost 12W with NE5532)! Scope did proved that OPA2604 is oscillating in E1's I/V stage, so I removed them for good. Same might apply to LT1028, LME49990 and AD797, even if the sound is very good to your ears: http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/795#post_8275193 or http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/7599/assus-xonar-essence-dac?page=2 etc.

I have been meaning to reply to this a long time ago. So because I found opa2604 sound so amazing I continued using them when I made a very interesting discovery.
When used on rca output  x 2 opamps became very hot. When I started using balanced line out to my amplifier all four X 4 OPA 2604 opamps cooled down to normal temp. I put heatsinks on for just in case but not needed if running balanced out which uses all 4 opamps and full circuit of both dac chips. They run normal temp ,so I think no oscillation IMHO, when used as above for balanced out.Maybe something in the circuit changes for balanced mode which stops oscillation ??? I have used my DAC like this since 2014 (5 years) with no problems  . I have large floorstanding speakers with high sensitivety through preamp and mono blocks so can hear small changes imediately. My friend has muses edition , and for me and him OPA 2604 sounds better in I/V. I have a feeling that when Asus designed this DAC , they put all their focus on Balanced line output and the single (RCA) output is a compromise.
Even with STD Opamps, sound from balanced sounds much better than RCA output. Much more detail,lower noise floor,cleaner treble,stronger bass and more dynamics.  Unfortunately I do not have a scope to confirm all , but would love your input on it Raoultrifan.
Greetings


----------



## raoultrifan

I do like the E1 too, even it's kinda old at this moment.  In single-ended I'm using the internal amplifier for headphones, but on the RCA plugs I have Mackie monitors connected.
The XLR balanced plugs are used in conjunction with Matrix HPA-3B, this way I can listen fully balanced from "head to tail".

To minimize distortions I can only recommend in I/V LME49720 or 5532 opamps. For LPF the same opamps could be used as well.

What exactly would you like me to measure, please? Although, I'm not sure I have the time for this in the next couple of months, but still worth asking.


----------



## seateam (Aug 31, 2019)

raoultrifan said:


> I do like the E1 too, even it's kinda old at this moment.  In single-ended I'm using the internal amplifier for headphones, but on the RCA plugs I have Mackie monitors connected.
> The XLR balanced plugs are used in conjunction with Matrix HPA-3B, this way I can listen fully balanced from "head to tail".
> 
> To minimize distortions I can only recommend in I/V LME49720 or 5532 opamps. For LPF the same opamps could be used as well.
> ...



Hello Raoultrifan
I thought if you ever had time to insert OPA 2604 back in I/V and make sure balanced out is connected, and then check for oscillation. As I said when running in balanced out the 2604 run cool. However when you run RCA out the opamps heat up in pairs 1 and 3 the 2 and 4. Years back you said you liked the sound of OPA 2604, so I thought it would be nice if you checked the balanced out way for oscillation and have a listen to their sound again , especially against muses 01. I use standard opamps in LP


----------



## raoultrifan

Hello, 

OPA2604 was oscillating in both I/V and LPF stages, even if there was no plugs connected in RCA and XLR. It's more related to the PCB of the E1 and the power supply and grounding.
For safety and best measurements I can strongly recommend LME49720 and/or LM4562 and/or NE5532 in all stages. By doing that you will have no harmonics higher than -100dB with 0dB 1KHz signal applied, which makes the E1 a very transparent DAC.


----------



## mBTX

raoultrifan said:


> Hello,
> 
> OPA2604 was oscillating in both I/V and LPF stages, even if there was no plugs connected in RCA and XLR. It's more related to the PCB of the E1 and the power supply and grounding.
> For safety and best measurements I can strongly recommend LME49720 and/or LM4562 and/or NE5532 in all stages. By doing that you will have no harmonics higher than -100dB with 0dB 1KHz signal applied, which makes the E1 a very transparent DAC.



Even over MUSES 01 in the I/V???


----------



## raoultrifan

Well, you can see the measurement on one of the above post, harmonics are a bit higher with MUSES01 than NE5532 when used in I/V: THD+N is 0.0067% with MUSES01 vs. 0.0024% with NE5532. Not something to complain about, but the difference is still there.


----------



## mBTX (Sep 2, 2019)

Hmm, maybe I'll switch'em out.  I've been having this issue where I get a bit of static after using the built in headphone amp after about 2 hours.  Odd thing is if I tap the (2nd from right) I/V muses 01 it goes "bzzzzzt" and stops.  I take it this is the grounding issues spoken of???

Thanks for your research and info,  not only should it sound a little better, but it'll free up 4 01s for better uses!!!


----------



## raoultrifan

Hmmm...that's odd, maybe that specific opamp has an imperfect electrical contact on one pin. I suggest you to power off the device, take out the opamp, gently bend the 8 legs on the exterior for about 1/10 mm, then nicely re-insert it into the DIP8 socket and make sure you don't break anything in there. Basically, you need to ensure the opamp is not loosy or something.

BTW, are you 110% those 01s are genuine (just asking)?


----------



## mBTX

I bought them from digikey.  They should be genuine.  Any muses 01 or 02 opamps I get, I install in a riser socket.  They're so soft that I'm afraid of snapping a leg.  If they're that sensitive (connectivity wise) perhaps that could be my interference...


----------



## Hopup

I suppose it might be rather subjective what sounds better to each persons ears. I myself enjoy this dac more with tl072 in the outputs. I swear it sounds more detailed in this way, maybe its harmonic distortions or whatever.


----------



## raoultrifan

Might be the harmonics indeed, but might be something else...who knows... In the end what it matters is that this ASUS combo is still up and running after about 8 years and owners still love its sound, me included.


----------



## r343

raoultrifan said:


> I do like the E1 too, even it's kinda old at this moment.  In single-ended I'm using the internal amplifier for headphones, but on the RCA plugs I have Mackie monitors connected.
> The XLR balanced plugs are used in conjunction with Matrix HPA-3B, this way I can listen fully balanced from "head to tail".


Can you hear much difference in Essence Ones headphone output vs Matrix?

No clue how Essences headphone output performs against todays gear.


----------



## raoultrifan

For AKG K701, Hifiman HE-560 or other hard-to-drive cans I feel that Matrix HPA-3B is indeed an improvement, same for 8...16 Ohms IEMs, due to the higher impedance of the ASUS E1, but for normal sensitivity headphones the internal headmap of E1 is pretty good.

Internal headamp is based on LME49720 and LME49600, so it's quite "contemporary".


----------



## mBTX

(Did a couple searches in this thread for my issue but came up empty.) 

I run a balance M-stage amp off of the XLR's in my E1.  When I adjust (and ONLY when I adjust) the volume I get a crackle.  It is not present on the hp amp side nor the RCA output.

Is this a known isssue?
Is there a fix for this?
Any advice would be great.


----------



## raoultrifan

mBTX said:


> When I adjust (and ONLY when I adjust) the volume I get a crackle.


It’s from the potentiometer, it got old. You need to clean it with spray for electrical contacts (or isopropilic alcohol and oil) or swap it for a new one (very hard to find a 4-gang pot).

You could also use the pot. to the max. and adjust volume from the Matrix.


----------



## mBTX

Would I be correct in assuming that that pot is a (combined) "pair" of 2 10k pots that simultainiously controls both left and right channels?  Or does it have something to do with how this amp achieves its "balance"?  I ask because I'm wondering if I wired 2 decent stereo pots up to the main vol. if it would give me L/R balancing. A couple of these perhaps? https://www.hificollective.co.uk/potentiometers/tkd-2cp-601s-potentiometer.html

Either way, I will start with the cleaning method first.


----------



## raoultrifan

mBTX said:


> Would I be correct in assuming that that pot is a (combined) "pair" of 2 10k pots that simultainiously controls both left and right channels?


Yes, two regular stereo 2-gang pots.



mBTX said:


> I ask because I'm wondering if I wired 2 decent stereo pots up to the main vol. if it would give me L/R balancing.


Hard to impossible to achieve the perfect channel balance this way. I strongly recommend finding a 4-gang pot that will somehow fit inside E1. If not, then use a comfortable output volume on E1 and adjust for lower output levels by software (OS).



mBTX said:


> A couple of these perhaps? https://www.hificollective.co.uk/potentiometers/tkd-2cp-601s-potentiometer.html


Feel free to read https://www.head-fi.org/threads/asu...-dac-cebit-2011.542563/page-229#post-13125460 as well. You need B10K for the middle pot. and A10K for the headphones pot. Impossible to find the originals, but at least you might try finding no-brand 4-gang pots. Just take care of shaft's diameter and overall outer dimensions. I think the orignals are 9mm shaft pots., but please measure prior to ordering...if you will find any available somewhere. 

You might want to double check this: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/RK097G4L-09mm-quad-unit-rotary-potentiometer_62066284851.html.



mBTX said:


> Either way, I will start with the cleaning method first.


This should do for a while for sure, give it a try.


----------



## r343

Is it okay to lower balanced output from pot? Manual says its outputs 4v so i would assume its 2v at when pot is at 12 clock.

I have some problems with Violectric V200 running  too much volume, i cant even reach 12 clock (HD800) with lowest gain on  amp when Essence One output is at full position using xlr connections.


----------



## raoultrifan

r343 said:


> Is it okay to lower balanced output from pot? Manual says its outputs 4v so i would assume its 2v at when pot is at 12 clock.


The potentiometer from the middle is linear, so yes...at around 12 o'clock you will be getting about 2V RMS on XLR output plugs and about 1V RMS on RCA.

However, best SNR will be achieved with volume to the max. on E1 



r343 said:


> I have some problems with Violectric V200 running too much volume, i cant even reach 12 clock (HD800) with lowest gain on amp when Essence One output is at full position using xlr connections.


I strongly recommend you to setup correctly the gain settings on your V200, based on https://www.hifisentralen.no/forume...tric-hodetelefonforsterkere-v200-e-manual.pdf. You should be fine with an overall gain of 0dB (unity gain), but feel free to experiment with a pre-gain of -6dB or even lower.


----------



## mBTX

Hmmm, weird.  Both the DAC and the amp pots are of the B10k variety on my E1.  Wonder if mine has been repaired???  Could this cause any issues in your opinion?


----------



## raoultrifan

mBTX said:


> Both the DAC and the amp pots are of the B10k variety on my E1.


This is normal, mine has same B10K, only MUSES has A10K on the headamp. B10K is linear pot., while A10K is logarithmic (normal for use inside amplifiers).


----------



## mBTX

Thanks for sharing your links and knowledge.

People like you are what make forums like this great.


----------



## harrihart

Hello. I have Essence One Mark 1 Muses Edition (genuine), and got DSD Upgrade Kit, used from Amazon many years ago. I expected Muses 02 OP Amps that came with it to be fakes, and never installed them, or the DSD upgrade part. I used it with Adam A8X studio monitors quite happily for many years. Now I got back to headphone listening, and this is the only desktop DAC/AMP I currently own. I have modded Sennheiser HD800 and many other lower end cans. I'm not too picky with gear, as I know the results will never be worth the increased cost, if I go much up from here, but I'm considering DAC/AMP/Pre-amp upgrades, like RME ADI-2 DAC FS. However, I'm pretty happy with the sound I get right now.

Now I actually think these OP Amps might be real, from the other threads. Everything else says they are real (even legs are very soft, and bend easily), but I got two different numbers, and the other one's paint is "stronger"/different color. Not sure if I heard any difference after switching them to the place of 49720s, first I got the impression that it had less bass, and was disappointed, but after that everything else sounded awesome. This might all be placebo. At least they work. You think these are real? I'm pretty sure the EEPROM part is genuine, and installed it too, but haven't updated firmware yet etc. Image https://ibb.co/VM8LcXK

As I have I/V stage (4) and LPF (2) already filled with Muses 01 OP Amps, I put the two extra Muses 02s to headphone buffer. Feels like waste to not use all 8 Muses OP Amps I now have, instead of the original 49720s. Is that stupid? Should I switch the Muses 01 LPF ones with Muses 02? 

So, LPF with Muses 01 + headphone buffer Muses 02, 
Or LPF with Muses 02 + headphone buffer Muses 01?

I don't really care about switching and trying and buying different OP Amps (tried that before, and it was fun with simpler amps, but still), as the differences are very hard to hear/remember. Also the soft legs will surely broke if I try that. But still asking.

I got the impression that switching XLR (that I use), headphone, or RCA buffer OP Amps will not give much benefits. Should I keep the XLR ones like they are, or is there some cheap upgrade available? I don't care about the best, expensive parts in this old device. Buying that DSD upgrade kit was stupid too, there is really no any benefits for me, Tidal user, for my already Muses Edition.


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## raoultrifan

They look real to me, hope I'm not mistaken. You could keep the default NE5532 in I/V, LME49720 in LPF and the LM4562 in buffers and sell the MUSES. This will save you some money without altering the sound in a wrong way (E1 will sound, with the default opamps, as the original studio mix).

RME ADI-2 DAC FS would be a real upgrade indeed.


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## harrihart

Would they ship DSD Upgrade Kit with such different looking OP Amps? All the x6 Muses inside my unit are identical, with same numbers. 
It would be easy for someone to switch them to fakes, return and get free Muses's.


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## raoultrifan

Perhaps some more pictures might help here, with the two MUSES 02 opamps. Basically, if the pins are easier to bend than regular opamps and the big edges are rounded there's a good chance to be original. With better pictures, without flash and from different angles, we might inspect the top of the opamps even better.


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## harrihart

I think they are real. Sounds too good to not be. 

I decided to be brave and try not to break the legs. It worked well.

First I put 49720s back to headphone output (so everything Muses Edition default). Not big difference, but I think it was slightly sharper and colder, with smaller soundstage. Someone might like this with their headphones. I didn't with my HD800. (my previous observation was totally wrong, I had long break between listens then).

Then I put Muses 02's to LPF, in place of Muses 01's. Like you suggested many times earlier, as one good option. BIG CHANGE in sound, much warmer, more analogue, tubelike, whatever. Some pleasant crackles and distortion. I'm pretty sure this classifies as less hifi, but I absolutely loved it with HD800. I have never had tube amp by the way, so don't believe everything I say. I dunno how much of this is placebo, as I knew Muses 02 was supposed to be warmer (and worse for most), but I'm 100% sure there is some/big change in sound.

Then I put Muses 01's in place of 49720's to headphone out, so everything in "chain" is Muses. Smaller change. I'm quite sure this improved soundstage/highs/details (restored them some, that the previous change maybe took away), adding even more raspiness to the sound, maybe even too much for some. Depending of songs it was sometimes on the border of being too much, but most of the time awesome. Best sound I have ever had from my HD800. All that warmth in mids and lows is still there, maybe even more. Other areas are just improved.

It also almost fixed HD800's annoying treble problem, with some songs. Together with the mod. Definitely better, good pair. But not perfect. Now I almost don't want RME or anything else more neutral, because this is hard to beat. For now.. (RME might have some EQ fixes, I'm not a fan of EQ at all, but at least previously, HD800 was not usable with some songs, so something has to be done. But now it's better.


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## Colonel Faulkner

Nice, another one who's still using the Essence One w/ some pimped ingredients. 
In terms of real MUSES or not, I've got this pic here for example: left one is fake and right one is genuine. Just look closely at the figure/head. Left one looks like some cartoony silhouette and right one more like a statue from the Easter Island imo. 

My MUSES01 at I/V and LPF have printed numbers 206 and 301 on it, I guess due to batches. The MUSES02 at the Cinch-out has printed number 311 on it.


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## raoultrifan

The one from left, on the first pic, is fake, but it's very easy to spot.

BTW, I'm not gonna get rid of my E1 unless it's gonna get completely defective.  Of course, I have other DACs too, but the E1 still measures and sound very good. On my last measurements I realised that the best combination is to stick with NE5532 and LME49720, which I did, so I'll probably sell the MUSES.


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## askeladden

Kinda strange how Asus stopped making new Essence products. They haven't updated the Essence lineup since the E3 in 2014.


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## raoultrifan

Probably not profitable enough, on a market where Topping, SMSL etc. are better at half the price. I hope that ASUS will at least build internal audio cards for us and maybe U7 mk3 or similar cheap external ones.


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## midnightfox

How does the Asus Essence One with Muses01 chips installed compare with todays DACS/AMPS in the same price field?
I've been considering the new Drop + Sennheiser's HD8XX and wonder if I need to consider upgrading to get the very best out of the HD8xx/800S. 

I have been using my current setup with the Beyerdynamic DT-880 Premium Headphones 600 Ohm for 10 years now and I feel it's time to upgrade my headphones. 

As for the Asus Essence One Muses I've been very pleased with it and not sure if something like "xDuoo TA-30 Tube DAC/Amp" which is a tube dac/amp will sound better or is the Asus Essence one still very capable?


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## raoultrifan (Mar 15, 2021)

midnightfox said:


> How does the Asus Essence One with Muses01 chips installed compare with todays DACS/AMPS in the same price field?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/asu...-dac-cebit-2011.542563/page-236#post-14799061 shows a slight increase in distortions with the original MUSES01 vs. the default NE5532 in I/V stage, so I recommend sticking to the default opamps if you care about best THD+N. Although, with MUSES01 I had a feeling of a better soundstage, but this is purely subjective, as I couldn't get it in measurements.

So, I have no problems with E1 these days in both Windows 10 and MacOS Catalina, but unless you will find it really low-cost I can't recommend it to purchase it, mostly due to possible volume potentiometers issues and it's age. I would personally wouldn't pay more than 100 EUR for it, unless is in mint condition (where maybe 150 EUR would be acceptable).

P.S.: By "original MUSES01" I mean opamps purchased from an authorised dealer, not eBay!


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## askeladden

I've found out that these things are often so cheap on the secondary market that it  wouldn't make any sense to buy the opamps by themselves to upgrade my OG E1. Would be a smarter move to get a cheap muses edition and sell the OG.


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## raoultrifan

askeladden said:


> I've found out that these things are often so cheap on the secondary market that it wouldn't make any sense to buy the opamps by themselves to upgrade my OG E1. Would be a smarter move to get a cheap muses edition and sell the OG.


The is a high risk the MUSES inside to be fake, so accurate pictures with the inside opamps are needed before the payment.


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## midnightfox

raoultrifan said:


> The is a high risk the MUSES inside to be fake, so accurate pictures with the inside opamps are needed before the payment.



I already own the Asus Essence One with Muses Amps which I bought from a legitimate Japanese chip supplier (chip1stop) back in 2012-13 which was a supplier used by some of the head-fi members. 

http://www.chip1stop.com/web/AUS/en/dispDetail.do?partId=NJR1-0012051

I doubt that one of the official partners would be selling fake ones.

My original question was regarding how well do they sound/preform compared with todays modern Dac/Amp in the same price range.


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## raoultrifan

midnightfox said:


> My original question was regarding how well do they sound/preform compared with todays modern Dac/Amp in the same price range.


I thought I already replied: THD+N is very low, see the pics from my previous answer. I see no jitter when using the USB input and crosstalk is also better than -90dB (channel separation). ASIO works perfectly on Windows 10 and for MacOS no drivers are needed, no drop-outs during playback or skipping.

There are DACs today having a better THD+N and using newer technology components inside, but as I said, if someone can find an E1 at a low price, then I see no problems purchasing such a combo.


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## midnightfox

Thanks for sharing your input.

I agree, I've been extremely pleased my E1 and I've had no issues using ASIO via Windows10. 
Definitely a good purchase if you can find it cheap


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## askeladden (Jul 22, 2021)

Just picked up another unit because it was too cheap to ignore. Bought it with the intent to flip it for a profit, however when i use it i have noticed that once in a while i get a low volume electronic sounding hizz that lasts probably a second in my right earcup. The sound "drops off" so to speak. Any idea what might be causing this? Using the same cables and inputs as my other E1.

*edit* tried running through optical from my pc and i still get the noise. Newest firmware and drivers as per the Xonar Essence Information program.


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## raoultrifan

Wondering what opamps are inside. If different than the original NE5532/LME4562 then try swapping them with originals.


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## askeladden

I took a peek inside and it seemed to be the all original op amps.


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## askeladden (Jul 25, 2021)

This is what it looks like inside. I see some indicators that it has been messed with though.

I'm just thinking out my behind here because i have no knowledge about electronics, but could what i am hearing be electronic discharge due to a faulty opamp?
what opamps should i replace if that is the case?


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## raoultrifan

I thought LME49720 were the originals for LPF, also the NE5532 from I/V look odd. However, swap the 6 opamps with 4 x NE5532 + 2 x 49720 bought from a credible source (Digikey, TME etc.)


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## askeladden (Jul 25, 2021)

Guess i will have have to try. Just out of curiousity i opened my first and perfectly functioning unit to check for differences and i noticed on the back that my functioning unit is marked XONAR_E/B/A and the faulty unit is marked XONAR_E/B

*edit* further investigation leads me to believe that my first unit (XONAR_E/B/A) is the plus version and the E/B is the non-plus stock version.


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## wanted110 (Jul 5, 2022)

Just in case someone might be interest I have a A10 pot that I would be willing to send to anyone (preferably in the EU) with a non-Muse edition of this DAC. I previously had a non-Muse edition that had some imbalance because of the B10 pot.
I scavenged everything I could from my dead Muse edition before going for an E3. I am keeping the Muse01 amps but I have no use for the pot.
Changing it is not for the faint of heart though.
*EDIT : Sent to someone*


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